the aids issue is is a bit of a problem  
i guess the first thing that comes to my mind not having any immediate friends with that problem is is the financial end  
and how can a country stand to uh spend as much or much more than they already are on such a problem uh  
but then that kind of thinking is also [tempered] with the the knowledge or at least the the rumor i'm not really sure if it's true or not that uh we're not spending as much per let's say [afflicted] person on cancer  
uh there's some uh  
take breast cancer for instance  
it seems to be doing much more damage and affecting much more many more people than aids  
and yet uh more people die of it  
and yet the funding has already uh exceeded  
aids has more money than uh breast cancer  
so uh  
i mean if it's true  
i i've i've always heard these things  
i've never bothered to dig it out and make sure  
but uh i've heard it on more than one documentary that uh they were complaining that whoever's sitting up there making these decisions or whatever institutions raise the money and uh  
it's just one big p r campaign that  
yeah  
we think that's the world's worst thing  
so let's give money to aids  
and yet we've had breast cancer problems for years  
and it's just  
one of those uh course one of the shows i saw was taking it from the angle that since it doesn't effect men it's not going to get funded  
and uh having thought about that for a while  
well i i kind of i thought well that that might be possible since there are a lot of men in control of that kind of thing  
but then i got i got to thinking the the number one killer of men seems to be the [prostate]  
and there's only one test that just recently got developed uh a blood [antigen] uh [antibody] test for the [antigen] in the blood  
and that's fairly recent  
and yet men have been dying from [prostate] cancer for years  
so it's not really cured  
yeah  
it's not uh not that heavily funded either  
and then that seems to be one of the the major uh problems that men have in the realm of cancer  
so i don't know  
i i guess there's just some strange public opinion as to who they want to give to uh be it through different organizations march of [dimes] type uh [telethons] or or bicycle rides or whatever how they fund whatever uh illness they wish  
it's kind of hard to to get an even keel on that  
i mean it's really hard to say  
well there's you know a hundred thousand per year affected by this one  
so let's give it this amount  
and then this other one's only a tenth of that  
so give it a tenth of that and and just keep [doling] it out that way  
or  
right  
right  
that's true  
you know the the other thought that i had uh  
i've had several minutes to think about this after i uh  
while i was finding people i uh i could think about the topic longer that the person that receives it  
so it's kind of a a unfair advantage   as it were  
but the other thing that i thought of on this is i wonder if there isn't enough money uh in our economy or in our system  
uh it seems like there's so much that goes to things that don't really do a whole lot of good  
i mean yeah  
they're kind of nice  
but we have such an affluent society society that i wonder if if we took a little from here and there and the other if we might wind up with a a cure for just about everything  
of course then we wouldn't have any room to put people  
but that's  
yeah  
you know you hear these ridiculous figures for pizza  
or you hear these these phenomenal amounts of dollars spent for this that or the other  
and then you have all the arts that that are nice and [aesthetic]  
but   are they that [enhancing] for the for the masses you know  
they certainly do well for those who go to the symphony orchestra and all that  
but uh had all that [donation] and time and labor and effort gone toward something else  
than  
well that's interesting isn't it  
yeah  
right  
what did you think about that idea  
they've not really given it attention either  
yeah  
right  
well i'm i'm glad i'm not the one that's that's in charge of of making those decisions  
they uh you wish that there could just be money for all these problems because they're all so serious you know  
i mean it's not so serious i guess until it affects your family  
and then all of a sudden it's the most important thing  
so i i would hate to have that responsibility just personally  
but but then again we really we really do have it as a society to decide which things we need to address  
i uh i guess i it it frightens me to think of so many people with with aids and with cancer  
and many of those things uh if they're not able to to be insured then the country's going to pay for it one way or the other   whether it's through prevention or or treatment or you know just uh just helping the people when they are not able to take care of themselves  
it seems like one way or the other we're going to end up paying for it  
but  
just change our  
right  
just change our priorities   a little bit  
right  
well aids is a nasty terrible disease  
and you die from it  
so i think that uh they need to look into it  
and it's kind of like cancer  
i don't you know  
how many years have we tried to find a cure for cancer  
i think it'll probably be as difficult  
uh how about yourself  
yeah  
they say a million people are [infected]   with the h i v virus  
and uh yeah  
i think  
uh in the country america  
yeah  
and they have millions  
i don't know  
i've just heard it on the radio  
sometimes you hear things that on the radio that you know could be true or couldn't be  
uh do you feel like this is  
i i guess they're spending a billion or so a year on this aids research  
do you think they should spend more  
what do you think doug of mister johnson  
magic  
do you think he's the hero that he's being called by a bunch of other a bunch of the media  
you know i took advantage of the opportunity when you know he came out  
i talked to my kids about it you know  
it's something that i hadn't hadn't done before  
uh  
i'm glad that mister johnson's changed his tune on uh safe sex to abstinence  
or   i was glad he did that for young kids because a lot of kids would have ended up dying because of what he was promoting  
uh let's see  
what are some of the other questions  
uh you don't uh  
let's see  
i don't have any friends that have the disease  
i guess you might might not  
is it pretty   nasty  
yeah  
it sounds awful  
is it just that the immune system [ceases] to function properly  
and  
and  
oh really  
you think about aids research  
uh_huh  
um well i'm certainly in favor of aids research  
and i think probably the government could spend a bit more money on it than it does  
i think that  
because besides the fact that it's a deadly disease that it's a contagious disease so that it's um  
although it is not killing that many people now it still has the opportunity to get out of control and become a huge problem  
uh_huh  
that's in the world or in america  
you  
oh really  
um that's  
whose figure is that  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i i think they should actually although perhaps not a an incredible amount more than what they're doing  
and i don't necessarily think that they should uh fund aids research and in the process neglect cancer research or whatever  
i think that it would be a good thing for the government to increase funding for medical research in general  
um   well i well i am sorry that he has the virus  
i um i don't know  
i don't i think it's very strange that the media hasn't um questioned him more strongly to about gay sex or [intravenous] drugs or anything like that as they probably would for a lot of other people  
um well not not really though i mean i think he's probably doing the right thing for a man in his position  
but i don't think it's anything exceptional that he's doing  
it's what many people have done already who were just less famous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i do  
my cousin does for instance  
and um  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
he's actually um  
he had aids related complex for a while  
and he is now in full blown aids really not doing very well and has a brain [tumor] or that sort of thing  
yeah  
it's it's a very nasty thing  
um yeah  
that's that's basically it that um the immune system can at first slow down  
and the white blood cell count goes down  
which is that's aids related complex  
but then when things get completely out of control and it basically hits bottom that's aids  
and in that case you know people are prone to getting any kind of you know weird cancer that only animals got before  
and  
yeah  
that sort of thing  
well michael what do you think about uh funding for aids research  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i guess i'm not too aware of how much they're spending right now   you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean i  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i i can see that research is needed  
and you know  
definitely  
i mean it's becoming a major problem  
but uh   i guess the area that i think more about is i would like to see them focus on uh preventing it uh   in more   you know  
right  
and i   i feel like just saying uh safe sex is not the answer  
it's   it's uh   abstinence in certain cases  
and  
yeah  
and knowing you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think for a lot of people it has  
so  
so  
uh_huh  
drug addicts  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
boy   that's a hard issue  
it really is  
yeah  
i mean i i definitely think that it's the drug problem that needs to be addressed  
but as you say uh people i mean in the meantime  
well   someone who's not ready to give up drugs uh   you know  
if they're [perpetrating] the aids problem passing that on to each other then   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i haven't either  
i've heard you know uh   different voices   speaking up and saying we're not spending enough  
and   mostly that's what i've heard  
so i don't know  
and yet i know it's uh it sounds like big money to me  
but it   probably takes   a lot  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
did you have any fear working in the hospital with that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh uh that's something i've thought a lot about  
uh i i work in a hospital  
and i've worked in the hospital for fifteen years  
and i've taken care of a few aids patients  
uh when they asked us did did we want to uh keep it the same or uh spend more spend less i think   uh i think right now what they're spending is adequate   uh my for my personal opinion   uh because i think it's something that's going to take them a while to come up with a uh [vaccine] for  
i don't think it's going to be that easy to come up with  
or i think they already would have by now you know  
and uh so i don't know if if spending a lot more money would really make any difference right now  
i think they're doing the is as much research as they can possibly do you know  
and uh what about you  
i'm not either  
i'm definitely not aware of how much  
uh that's something i've never really kept up with at all  
uh i don't   i'm not sure uh  
i know uh i've always thought more about the disease rather than the research  
you know what i mean  
and uh that sort of thing  
uh if if we were talking about the money uh i'd just have to say what they're spending is probably enough simply because i don't know that much about it   you know  
oh yeah  
i think so  
i think so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's true  
that's true   because uh it's a such an easily preventable disease  
uh  
no  
it's definitely not  
that's true  
that's true  
uh  
myself uh uh i'm just recently or about to get a divorce  
and uh course i'm not all ready to just run out there and start dating everybody i can or anything  
but it's sort of scary to find yourself single again you know  
and uh because you never know what's going to happen  
you don't know who you're going to come across you know  
course it's it's not that i'm wanting to i'm not going to want to go and have sex with everybody i see  
but it's something you got to think about these days  
a single person   you know  
and uh i mean it certainly changed my attitude about that   in a hurry  
and uh  
certainly  
yeah  
but uh uh i know that uh in some of these larger cities they're passing out free [syringes] and all of that sort of thing   to prevent you know so that uh the drug addicts   won't be   getting dirty needles and everything  
and uh i don't know  
i don't think that's a bad idea  
i know it uh sort of doesn't address the problem of drug addiction  
it just sort of keeps that going  
but uh i don't know  
at least drug addiction can be treated whereas aids so far cannot be   you know  
so i don't know  
that i think that's  
i'm not too much against the the passing out of the free [syringes] myself  
i don't know  
what do you think about that  
it   it really is  
it really is  
they gave us a hard topic  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
you know i guess if you consider the two problems drug addiction and aids   aids would have to come first i guess as far as   something to to do about it  
so so i don't know  
uh course there's so many things in the world where if you solve one problem you may be creating another you know  
and uh so i guess you just have to take the two problems and see which is worse   which is the most important to solve at the time  
and  
i don't know  
but uh but i've never looked into how much money they're spending  
i have i have no idea  
and i know a lot of our tax money goes to that  
but uh i really have never looked into it  
i have no idea  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it is  
i think it is  
yeah  
it does every  
it seems to take more than uh for any little thing they do  
it seems to take a lot more money that you would think it would   you know  
but uh  
that's one thing i've never really [feared]  
uh uh i  
a lot of the my family you know they fear me working like that and under some some of those conditions  
but uh   uh i don't fear it at all  
uh i work in in the operating room a lot  
and uh and of course when  
so julie how do you feel about aids research  
i'd agree too  
but i mean it seems like it just makes economic sense in that you know uh you know  
it would have made even better economic sense to to to have had a lot more research than a longer ago  
you know because you know because uh the country's going to wind up paying for the treatment of patients  
uh_huh  
i think they cover aids  
but what they do is uh if you know you apply for for to get a a insurance policy   they'll uh check to see if you're h i v positive  
and if you are not only will they not give you uh a policy  
but they'll uh they have like  
there's like you know a [database] of people that have tested positive  
so you'll never be able to get insurance ever again  
yeah  
i think a lot of it was was just that you know because of of the you know because because the majority of the high risk groups were people   no one really cared about  
that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh yeah  
one one one one humorous [retort] i heard heard someone you know who claimed that you know aids was you know god's punishment   was that then [lesbians] must be god's chosen people  
but uh  
so uh  
uh do you think you mean do you actually think we're doing enough right now to  
private organizations  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i mean it seems that you know it's just you know of it's just going to reach a steady a steady state a let a lot lot higher point than it will if we you know we'd [nip] it in the bud to quote barney [fife]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i would probably agree with that  
uh so do do you think it's more important to spend money on research or for support of uh people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it's i think it stands a really interesting question of uh  
i think we need we definitely need more of it definitely  
oh yeah  
yeah  
for certain  
exactly  
exactly  
does does like do health insurance policies like for companies and things do they cover diseases like that  
uh_huh  
um well that's but that's why they should have started doing stuff before  
i mean still you know since it's [dormant] for such a long time there's still probably a lot of people you know before the tests ever really came out   who are who are [draining] a lot of money right now you know  
right  
right  
right  
and all these god [fearing] people were like well you know   god is trying to kill off all the et cetera et cetera  
uh  
yeah  
boy  
that's a good one  
yes  
no  
i really don't  
i did i did like a research kind of thing on aids research and stuff  
and uh really we're not doing much at all  
i mean most of what gets raised i mean it's not really federal movement most of what gets raised gets raised by uh uh you know   conscious yeah communities and things like that you know  
like uh san francisco has a a real uh strong aids support group and all that kind of stuff  
and   and uh get they get donations from the community you know they're real   and from corporations around the around the city you know for aids research and that kind of thing  
and uh i think there needs to be more of that sort of on a federal level you know rather than just in the places where it's you know where it's [predominated] so far because it's you know it's   bound to spread  
right  
yeah  
i don't know  
i don't know  
i i i don't know what the likelihood of that is  
but i mean you know people really waking up  
especially with the ultra [conservatives]   move our our political system sort of seems to be taking  
yeah  
so  
god  
that's a good question fish  
i don't know  
uh i think i think one of the main things that's really important to spend money on is education not support or or research per se but but education because a lot of people sort of get [drummed] out of the work place and out of society you know kind of like [lepers] would   you know  
and it's really it's really not necessary uh until until the disease reaches its final stage you know becomes really [infectious]  
and uh i think that would be the most effective support they could get is for other people to understand you know try to understand what they're going through and everything and try to understand that   they're not you know they don't they don't have to be just completely cut off from from the community  
and that and uh i don't know  
i guess i think that that uh research is i guess the most important just because i you know it it really needs to come to an end   you know  
i don't know  
i don't know fish  
what do you think about that subject  
well [charlie] what do you think should we spend more on aids research or stay the same
why do you think we don't spend enough
well i agree with you
i think we have a lot of talk but not dollars
and you know we we our situation where we're faced with people that you know choose a lifestyle that may cause aids
but then at the same token there are a lot of people like the children in florida who didn't choose a lifestyle but there was no help for them
and i think one of the things we can do as far as the government goes is just to [dispel] some of the myths you know drinking from a water [fountain] will give you aids
using a restroom will give you aids
but at the same token i feel like heart disease cancer multiple [sclerosis] where do we put those in perspective to aids
no
i don't
and you know i'm like you i do not know
what the government is spending on aids
yes
right
yeah
well i'm in texas
and we have a teacher that died from aids
yeah
well not my school district
but it was in the state of texas
and it was because of a transfusion
and i think that got a lot more publicity because again it wasn't a minority group
and you know we're looking at a situation that hopefully can be controlled it is frightening
you know because it could be you
or i
and then what would we do we'd want help
that's true
yeah
well my mother had a blood transfusion about four years ago
and i i was scared to even mention to her
that there was an emergency situation
we couldn't give she couldn't give her blood and we couldn't go down to give our blood for her
and you know there's always the possibility
no
but the
i agree with you
uh
okay
i'll start uh funding i think that in light of the seriousness of it of the fact that that by what uh i think they said by the year two thousand there will be at least five
is it five thousand a year or more
uh
yeah
we'll be dying from it
and i know uh what is it uh over in africa
it's just already in horrendous uh
yeah
it really is
so in light of that
i think that that we're probably going to have to increase the funding for research
i think that uh i don't know
if they have it
but it looks like to me that all the countries could go together and have like a joint aids research program
i don't know if they already have one of those
where everybody could put in their input i don't know
i don't know
i don't i don't hear about research that much except in the terms of what the united states is doing
and the celebrities that's you know the benefits and things that they put on
for aids
research i do i did hear about uh africa
and uh how rampant
it is over there
and i know uh in talking to
i have a relative that works for uh state welfare in oklahoma the aids children that are coming in with it uh
it
i mean it it's it's tragic it's just absolutely horrible
and it's you know it's not just [homosexuals] it's you know [heterosexuals] it's you know the drug users it's
innocent people that you know go in for blood transfusions so i mean it's starting to affect everyone
i think that probably partly is it
i think that it is has received so much more publicity since we have had well known actors athletes
everything come down with it i think that uh i do agree with someone when uh magic johnson announced uh there was a uh [spokesperson] for the gay community that came out and said that you know it would not be receiving this much publicity if it wasn't for someone like magic johnson
and it would be you know very interesting to see
that's right
that's right
and i think it it
i think it makes people more aware that it hits other than just the gay community
and uh but i do think that that in light of the
in fact that it's going to hit all of us
i think what are they saying by the year two thousand
i think it's one in three is supposed to have it you know it it because it it is it's spreading so rapidly
oh i didn't realize that
well it is
i know that i i heard another conversation regarding aids the fact that that you know cancer is not receiving this
and yet is is cancer growing at such a rapid rate
you know it's it's
you know
and i think that's what is scaring people is that it is reaching such epidemic [proportions] you know where is is cancer on the is it rising as rapidly
you know as for instance aids you know uh
i don't i don't know
either you know it it's just uh and granted
i i do think that because of the publicity and because of the people you know getting it and everything
i think that that people are more aware of it than you know say if you know someone just dies with cancer
which is it's a tragic way
i mean you know
yes
yeah
well i don't know
i really am not sure what they're spending on aids aids research
i get the impression it's a pretty sizeable chunk of money
i was always uh uh i'm trying to remember where it was
but recently uh somebody on the news said that one of the problems with uh aids research
was that each time they find somebody with you know about every fourth or fifth person they've diagnosed with aids has got a new strain they seem to be [mutating] just like about about like the common cold
finding a cure for something like that could be several hundred years in the making
well
yeah
the general
yeah
general human yeah
that might help to
it might help the awareness part
but uh
yeah
yeah
i don't know it you know the uh funding situation seems to be the same for so many of the major diseases so to speak
the uh bulk of the money goes to administrative costs
which usually means high salaries for people running the show and a major name researcher is involved with it
but you know who knows what actually gets done as far as true research
yeah
it seems everywhere you turn somebody's coming up with it wild part about it
nobody seems to want to suggest the idea that doing without is the only safe way of keeping from getting it they figured well you know we all want to be [promiscuous] so they're just running all over the place
and
yeah
no
there are people who don't get it from [promiscuity] there's the sorts who get it through blood transfusions yeah
that's the [saddest] cases of all of or that woman who died just recently the one who died just recently got it uh from her dentist something like twenty two twenty three years old died of aids
she got it because her dentist had it and didn't use any precaution i don't know
those are the sad cases
southern mississippi
yeah
um right now as far as the state budget concerning aids awareness
i'm not even sure that there is
i know there isn't any on the city level or on the county level
i'm not sure if the state's got much of anything on the aids awareness
i think most of the aids awareness information is more or less coming through private sector um
yeah
well uh actually i'm i kind of uh
well that's like between saying yes and no
it uh i think that we're uh spending about what we should but i'm not exactly sure if we're spending it in the right right uh uh location
yes
right
right
uh but i think that a lot of people have the attitude that the more money you throw at something the uh better chance you have of [curing] it
and that's just not true
right
i think uh you know that that money needs to be spent on on research
but i i think uh you know it should be a a wide spectrum of research and not just uh research on a cure and not not on a research on how to [prolong] life or or uh make the disease any any less traumatic you know i think money
i think one once
somebody has contracted the disease
that's that's uh you know that's unfortunate
but let's try to concentrate on on you know let's put resources on making sure
nobody else gets it uh
right
right
well i think uh you know there's there's my opinion is there's there's a there is a limited number of resources medical resources available
and i think it is foolish to to uh spend most of those uh a a large majority of those resources on people who have aids uh simply because they they uh they need attention right away or or need more attention than somebody who has heart disease or or slow cancer or something
i think i don't know
i think uh too much money is being spent on on a on sophisticated medical treatment for for people for people who need to be in a hospice program
yes
well that
i mean that fits the country
we live in the people
oh okay
yeah
the
i mean the people with the [loudest] voice get the money it's not necessarily the people who uh who deserve it the most
right
although that sounds [heartless] that's that's
right
well i know just something local to you
i i used to live in dallas
and so i have some friends there
and i know for example uh parkland hospital is spending or at least was when i was there spending a large portion of their their budget on on on basically warehousing aids victims and you know that's you know i i you know my heart goes out to those people who who have the disease
but i don't think that we should be spending uh you know that that a majority of the hospitals resources should not go for for uh indigent aids patients
have you any thoughts
okay
well uh i'll tell you i am uh uh impressed with the uh uh amount of spending that's occurred so far as far as aids research and i think that uh proportionately maybe uh so far
it's been enough
it seems like it seems like uh there's not uh been any money taken away from other necessary medical research uh uh subjects uh you know in in allocated towards the aids research
i think that aids research has been a a lot of the funding has not been done by the government
a lot of it has been done by private endowment uh but i think the government is doing a good job
so far of keeping the uh their portion of the funding up
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
exactly
uh it although i was uh i i was shocked at the public uh uh outrage uh that occurred after after i think it was dan quayle who said uh you know who suggested that maybe maybe we you know maybe that is a a possible
and and uh uh likely most effective solution is you know abstinence
and and yet the a large portion of the community said well that's stupid you know that just shows that you have no interest in in in spending any money on the on the problem
and i thought that's not
that's not the point at all
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
okay
that makes a little bit of sense
uh i i hadn't i was not aware that that was uh such a a within the n i h that uh that was much uh
start us
yeah
right
because it's just getting worse and worse and worse and worse
yeah
it already has
right
although they're doing a whole more than they were five years ago
you know they're living longer and and their medicines are a whole lot better
so they're not having to go through as many of the as of the other diseases or so it sounds anyway
as you know when when all of this first started out they they came down with every single disease that came down the pipes because they had no immune system
and they suffered so much worse
so
you know at at least they're making progress but they've got to get it stopped they've got to find a cure
so have i
yeah
well yeah
well especially with you know surgeries all the time
it's so scary
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
and you know well with the time factor it could be up to ten years
you know
so that's what's so bad
and and you may test negative this time
but you may test positive you know two weeks down the road
so the test is relevant for that very day
but not necessarily forever
yeah
yeah
yeah
and and like when i went in the hospital you have to sign a paper saying that that you'll allow them to give blood if they if you need it
otherwise they won't do the surgery
so what do you do
i mean yeah
you're given the option of signing or not signing but if you say no
i don't want the blood then they they may say well then i'm not going to do the surgery
right
right
what what can they do
well that's right
and they've got to do something about it
they can't put it on the back burner and just say well you know the research is going on and doing good enough
because it's not
there's no cure yet
you got it
yeah
of course i don't have that problem
i probably will never have to worry about that
oh gosh what a shame
slight chance you think
ugh
oh
it is it's like okay show me your papers
then we'll talk
yeah
well they're doing a lot over in europe
with it
and i know when randy was so sick
he was having medications flown in from europe because he couldn't get his hands on it over here
and uh
uh_huh
yeah
so he was he had a lot of medication coming in from europe
and then he finally was able to get the what is the a z t over here only because he had connections that was not open to the public at that time
so i don't know
but they've got to do it because it's it's everywhere
to everybody
of course
that's right
there's nothing to lose so you may as well do whatever you got to do
yeah
or if it was one of my kids
right
no problem
yeah
yeah
a little over two years
a little over two years
and at that point he was the fifth fifth longest [survivor] but see that was almost four years ago
and now they're living a whole lot longer
so
but he
i mean jeez
he had everything under the sun he had hepatitis he had [meningitis] he got throat cancer and he never smoked even a grapevine much less a cigarette you know um just you name it
he he just
oh it was horrible
it was horrible
yeah
and then i had another very dear friend of mine die four months after randy did
and uh he didn't know he was sick
he'd just you know had a cold that he couldn't shake all winter
and kept getting [sicker] and [sicker] and finally went in the hospital and uh he had pneumonia and both lungs were full
and he died within about sixteen hours
of going to the hospital
yeah
yeah
yeah
and his friend had died the year before
and they swore it wasn't aids
but i know darn good
and well it was
you know so ooh
it's just that that's close to home
you're kidding
um my gosh
all righty  
uh i guess our topic today is air pollution  
and we are to just discuss what substances do you think that contribute most to air pollution as well as what society can do to improve the air quality of the atmosphere around us  
um does your work [entitle] uh anything of environmental along these lines  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it's uh uh uh well  
i work in i work in [environmentals] uh projects right now  
and so the sherman deal is um uh lost a lot of hair over that project  
uh what we run into um is we have the texas air control board t a c b that send out uh jurisdictions under which we have to uh uh [reply] to  
and a lot of their rules and regulation aren't real clear so we have our manager of environmental who [assist] the t a c b which is located in austin in writing  
and hey  
look what we've done here at t i  
and uh we are presently uh in receipt of a site permit which will allow us to um uh  
this is our side   allow to have certain emissions up to a certain [tonnage]  
it's in   in in tons per year um  
and so you know what we do to make contributions so that basically we go and do things like put in high tech [scrubber] systems uh that uh scrub out the n o x and uh v o c's and and [ammonia] [compounds] uh like all the acids to a certain level  
we   are very um aware of the [opacity] which is the [thickness] of a stack emissions  
so if you don't see anything coming out of a stack the [opacity] is zero or twenty or [thereabouts]  
and so what we go through is uh if you see it smoking there's a problem  
and having worked with some of the legal folks very closely uh it becomes a real issue especially when it's smoking  
and you have to get it fixed el [pronto]  
as you know they they're allowed to come on site the [federaldes] anytime they want drive through and see and inspect  
so it's a full time uh everybody has their home phone number type of job um  
the sherman facility we are still in the closer too but still have a little bit of um [finalization] to do  
right  
it's been pitched to the sherman city council with um   open arms as well as the public  
we had open [forum]  
and and uh uh tom jones our environmental corporate environmental guys handle the project  
and uh its real uh going real well  
i think it's matter just a matter of fund   funds right now as i understand it uh  
but it's uh it's something else  
yeah  
they're they're they're in the same issue  
we were hoping on burning a lot of the [effluent] up there  
uh because the the system is setup where it won't have any emissions  
you're correct  
it will have something coming out of the [stackhouse] it was   it was human nature  
but it won't have can any uh any bad stuff  
so uh i think t i we spend of all the major semiconductor firms we probably put safety and environmental on the [utmost] foremost uh uh first thing we always look at  
and we probably put more money into the systems and engineering behind the system of any other firm i know of  
we eat and sleep the stuff everything we do over here  
and uh it's an interesting job  
but um  
possibly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm familiar with that one  
we have we have stuff that's very interesting uh  
we have hoods  
we have [duckwork] and all those type of interesting pieces of equipment where um they have um that we sample  
and it may have over uh a certain emission levels  
this is on the solid side  
and so we take it  
and uh we can't deep well [inject] something like that because it's a solid  
and we mix it with concrete   and actually um [potash] per se and concrete and then actually put it in the ground but not so not in a hazardous waste location because it's basically a concrete slab  
it was totally legal  
but the cost of doing this is astronomical   they actually show you what [duckwork] and things  
and so we were uh very very uh [cognizance] of and aware of all these types of uh expenditures because it could get very expensive  
but i think we uh you know we do all kinds of things to make the the world a better place to live you know  
i think some of the folks that aren't aware of it will be surprised at how much effort and energy is put into doing that  
i really would  
um i've enjoyed speaking with you  
this has been an interesting topic  
uh i was one of the  
i was responsible for all the planning and engineering over the corporate or in the north building  
yeah  
so uh i hope you like your office  
yeah  
yeah  
glad to see y'all taken care of  
well the uh i think what changed everything and uh is uh y'all were y'all were the only ones that make any money for t i here in the last ten years    
exactly  
and that's um when when you start when you start paying your way uh you know jerry takes a different outlook towards you guys  
i was just  
exactly  
i've enjoyed speaking with you  
see you later  
bye bye  
right  
me i'm in the legal department  
and um we do have uh a group of attorneys who handle our environmental issues  
and i don't know too much about the air pollution thing  
i do know for other types of pollution like the toxic waste and such that t i has to [dispose] of that we normally put in the ground you know we're coming up with a uh a new solution  
we have been finding a lot of toxic places to dump  
and we just transport to these places  
but after awhile it always seems that the um oh the site starts to leak  
and then you have to clean it up and such  
but the new idea is to take everything up to sherman  
and we're going have that you know incineration place up there and   dump everything there  
and supposedly that facility will not generate air pollutants from what i've heard that everything would be in in you know a confined kind of incinerator and just burn it all up  
and that we won't be polluting the air  
i'm sure we have to have uh permits you know for that place and that there's you know limits as to what we can uh let you know go into the air  
oh okay  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
now is that place built  
or you're still on the [makings] of it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i know from some of the sites that we've had uh quite a list of [cites] that have gone bad  
and you have to clean up  
and you know the law now is the super fund  
and anybody who's contributed toxic waste no matter if you were somebody that eventually you know uh damaged the ground or not  
uh everybody has to contribute  
and it's been a lot of big bucks when we've gotten uh gotten pulled into these super fund deals to clean it up and you know mega bucks to uh you know take everything out and redo it and you know fill in some other area  
and um certainly it would to have a better solution like the sherman facility than um just letting it go in the ground  
because eventually you know it it seems that no matter what they do if they put it in oil drums and then seal it in some kind of cement lined uh dump area  
it still only in time starts to leak out  
yeah  
there there was one site that they cleaned up  
and then the new place leaked again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
yeah  
oh you were  
oh okay  
yes  
yes  
it's a heck of a lot different  
and we used to be really embarrassed about the gray metal desk  
we were about the only   place in you know t i that had the gray metal desk  
people used to come and laugh and go gee i hadn't seen one of those ten fifteen years  
we   finally got a little respect  
nobody thought of us as a profit center before  
right  
right  
not just overhead  
you too  
bye  
uh robert what do you uh think what substances do you think are the most uh likely causes of air pollution  
right  
do you uh do you think that those are bigger contributors than things like acid rain and some of the pollutants that come from uh industrial areas factories and so on  
i was going to say  
and and you so you understand smog  
uh_huh  
wow  
my word  
and that was a few years ago  
i i wonder if it's any better now   because they uh california has such strict rules   um about emissions and so on  
um i i don't know if you heard about the uh recent legislation in uh colorado uh against a power company uh that's actually on indian land i believe  
but uh it has been ruled against uh regarding air pollution because they think that it's causing terrible smog over the grand canyon   and um particularly in the winter months  
so they  
it was uh a landmark case because it's unusual to um  
i can  
they they were talking about [shutting] it down or if it didn't comply and so on  
i don't know that  
the information is one of those wire services kind of news pieces of news you know  
so it's hard  
i never did see the full story  
so i don't know  
but they said that that it really caused so much smog over uh the grand canyon in the winter months that they couldn't do the uh [piloting] uh you know the [helicopter] trips and that sort of thing   which would be horrible   because the there's nothing  
i mean that's such a [spectacle]  
it would be a shame to ruin it  
uh what do you think individuals could do or society could do to alleviate this problem  
right  
uh_huh  
you think it's more more to society  
well i guess i kind of agree there  
i uh  
on an individual basis there isn't a lot we can do about a lot of things  
but if we are concerned about it then we certainly can uh force uh government uh that we elect to deal more seriously with it  
and i do think that we have a responsibility there  
i must admit i'm not always real politically active  
but i do think that um congress has backed down much too much on some of the air pollution standards  
and it's brought the  
they uh really listen to  
the the uh [lobbyist] and uh the car manufacturing companies have uh you know have really pushed  
they  
all those restrictions are really too hard  
we can't we can't quite make that go  
and they don't  
and then we still live with air pollution  
um so i suspect that that's one thing that that as individuals we can do make our voices known perhaps to our legislators  
but um as a society i think we can do more  
and that's probably how we ought to do it uh being individually responsible as uh in order to be group responsible  
right  
uh_huh  
i suspect that the that there's going to have to be a lot of pressure uh come to bear on the companies that deal with it  
and probably the only way that can happen is for um governments to realize that they have to pay if companies don't  
and uh i don't know how long that that will take  
sure  
exactly  
yeah  
right  
right  
well it's just the same thing with the car uh uh the gasoline  
now is a wonderful time to smack a fifty cent a gallon tax on gasoline   so that we don't uh run into the kind of problems we recently had  
and yet the government is not going to do that because people are too dependent  
and they don't want they don't want to pay for it  
so instead we spend billions of dollars going to war  
uh you know  
however it might have had other causes  
certainly oil was a big factor  
um and i think that's probably going to happen with with such things as air pollution   when we when we get serious about cleaning about our motors in our automobiles then uh then maybe you know we'll have a little bit of help um uh  
do you have any air pollution in your area  
oh no  
your talking about from from the uh the middle middle states   that that have more factories and so on  
yeah  
we really don't have that either  
although i think i can tell a difference in i lived in this area for about twenty five years and i think i can tell a difference in the comfort level uh particularly in the summer uh you know when it gets hot   and you have the that kind of a pressure from the pockets of air uh usually they say caused by exhaust  
it seems to me that i'm more uncomfortable  
and you know my eyes sting more and so on and so on  
so i suspect that it's it's an ever growing problem  
well i suspect that we've probably covered everything that we need to here  
it was nice talking to you  
so did i  
bye bye  
um gee  
i don't i mean  
i i guess it's the stuff that comes out of automobile exhaust you know  
they say in the paper [nitrous] oxides and ozone and all that  
so i believe them  
but i'm not a chemist  
i don't really know um  
i grew up in los angeles and have felt like i was victimized by air pollution  
i understand it very well  
and in fact i was a private pilot there  
and i can remember very etched etched clearly in my mind uh flying and coming up above the smog layer at about three thousand feet and looking back down and and really being [unbelieving] at   what looked like a uh  
it just looked liked peanut butter  
thick and brown and so on  
this was quite a few years ago  
this was in the nineteen sixties  
people say that it is somewhat better  
right  
um  
so did it burn coal  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i don't uh i don't know whether we could do a whole lot as individuals uh maybe just take good care of our cars   and make sure we keep our pollution devices clean and all that sort of thing um  
apart from that i i don't know what we can do as individuals  
what do you think we can do  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess i'm i'm to the point where i'm cynical enough that i really don't believe anything will happen unless unless there's something economically [justifiable] about it  
and in the case of air pollution it simply might turn out at some point down the road to be so costly to have to live with air pollution in terms of health problems   and everything else that we'll spend the money that's necessary to uh to get rid of the source of it  
yeah  
people also have to realize they can't have their cake and eat it  
so if you don't want to burn coal for power   how about nuclear energy  
well we don't want that either  
how about investing in the sun  
well nobody wants to pay twenty five cents a [kilowatt] hour i don't think  
uh i probably wouldn't mind if it really came down to it  
oh yes  
yes  
yes  
yes  
oh certainly  
yes  
yeah  
there's not really a lot here in raleigh  
uh once in a while we'll get some uh  
i think it kind of [washes] down from uh from your area linda  
that's what they that's what they  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what they say  
but it's it's not it's not very usual  
and certainly we don't have the eye [stinging] variety that you get in the big cities  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
i think   we've given them about seven minutes according to my watch  
and i enjoyed the conversation  
bye  
oh go ahead  
i i am glad to talk to an expert  
i always wanted to know who an expert was  
uh well there there's two things uh  
the one i'm interested the most i guess myself uh would be the the freons i mean for air  
the one i guess that's the one i'm most curious about is how they're going to replace the freons in air conditioning  
that seemed to be the biggest surprise to me  
and whether  
when they replace it you know they're going to really come up with something that is not just as bad  
yeah  
i uh was uh you know  
where they were all concerned about that  
but that that it seems to be  
no  
i heard about it though  
was that before  
i didn't see it  
was that before they actually did that  
or it was  
because of that   you know  
right  
are you  
you didn't work at t i  
oh okay  
where do you work in research  
or  
oh okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
uh well i'm kind of a car buff myself  
i was going to ask you another question  
but uh i'll do that in a minute  
i i think that the changing you know from leaded fuel was a tremendous advantage you know not using  
no  
no  
no  
really  
oh i'm a car buff too  
we ought to talk about that one day uh uh  
i think you can use the you can use high you know the ninety two percent uh ninety two [octane] i don't think you'll have any trouble  
oh yeah  
yeah  
no  
i i think uh  
i uh work on my own cars  
and uh i don't think that's a problem  
i thought  
i'm saying i was glad to get rid of leaded gasoline  
and  
uh-oh  

the same thing about the war uh or related to the war on  
i was watching c n n  
and i cannot remember what station it was  
what  
did you see the advertisements uh where they talked about nuclear war what that would have been like in changing the atmosphere  
it is so scary that i hope that every one of the government officials saw that because it was just total disaster you know  
did you see any of those uh i  
it was  
it must have been channel thirteen  
i don't recall  
although i thought it was on c n n oh  
i  
it was a somewhat of a commercial because it i saw it regularly  
and it showed that  
and it was really devastating  
and it would uh  
how much ash would fall  
and and how it would essentially literally destroy the world you know  
oh really  
yeah  
there there's probably a lot of natural things uh  
yeah  
uh it  
i guess it's got to be really  
i don't know  
i don't know if it's air pollution it's uh it's dust pollution whether it's natural or not i don't know  
yeah  
oh yeah  
well i live in arlington  
and there there there are no buses  
i mean there there is  
the only school bus the only buses you see are school buses  
so  
well i know it it's uh you know  
the car is  
we have this big romance with the car  
but uh i think people are would be interested if you had one i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well you said you were car buff uh  
i think that uh all of us could use one electric car right now i mean today   because i think uh you said people drive forty miles and fifty whatever  
yeah  
when you go to trips and all you can have one gasoline car  
but i think we all could in a family say have an electric car where my one of my daughters or my wife my wife she could use one now if they had one you know   because they she don't even she doesn't put fifty miles a day on the car  
no  
no  
you're right  
i i have seen them  
but uh they have a battery car  
uh i went to the auto show this past week  
and they did not [endorse]  
now that i think of it  
and i was so interested in the auto show i didn't think to ask anybody  
there were no electric cars  
i was surprised  
but now that you just mentioned that  
yeah  
i i think uh there could be a lot of  
i  
people close this is really  
we're we're nine years away or less i guess from the next century and i think  
yeah  
they've got a they've got a area over in the s m building too which is uh  
but it's a solar uh  
it's for uh  
[gots] some money from a power company  
and it's probably more [generating] power for you know uh electricity a hundred and twenty [volt] or whatever  
no  
i'm actually in the south building  
but uh  
i was uh i'm the facility  
so i've been in all most of the buildings anyway  
oh yeah  
well the the solar area is right right around from the auditorium now  
and it  
they've got several different uh areas where they're called solar lab  
it's   right there on the first floor you look walk by there  
yeah  
but the solar project you know t i's been into it for years  
and i guess it's just not uh economical yet because of the other fuels  
yeah  
i've seen some  
i think  
then again i'm surprised now i didn't think they'd asked anybody when i was in the auto show  
there was nothing uh  
and there was no place for air pollution or companies or anyone there  
it was just pure automobiles  
there  
huh  
i didn't see  
did you go  
oh  
uh i was uh quite impressed with all the cars you know  
the engines are so much smaller now and everything  
and they're they all have brand new engines even general motors uh  
very few  
only the [caprice] and them and the cadillac had eight uh the old v eights  
they're all brand new engines  
uh of course they're burning gasoline of course  
yeah  
and uh whether you know  
that's one way you know uh uh  
on air pollution i i i don't know if the automobiles are the biggest contributor or not really  
they've got catalytic converters  
everyone seem to have gone to that whether they last uh and do a good job  
and now that they the inspection systems are analyzing that uh  
well what do you think if you're in that you know if you're concerned about that  
i mean if you're you're you're knowledgeable on that  
oh well i'm not an expert  
i just had a little i've i've seen a little pollution in my time  
it's uh  
the the chemicals we were dealing with were uh a [raid] [repellent]  
and uh that was really quite dangerous  
i'm not certain that that was  
that that's really a pollution issue  
i think pollution issue is is uh is is the argument over over people catching uh things like uh respiratory disease  
well the you know  
that that's another [arguable] issue  
and i i've seen the uh uh uh  
assuming you can buy into global warming i  
well did you see carl [sagan] on sixty minutes on uh when he was talking about when if if the if the war started in in kuwait and they'd set those uh all  
uh it was it was it was interesting  
but uh i'm just curious what he has to say now that they've got them all lit  
yes  
and his argument was uh was that that you would see a uh a year with no summer   which actually happened  
and it it  
yes  
it actually happened  
uh it was a [volcano] [erupted]  
and it was high enough up  
but uh they had some people from the national [meteorological] center i think it was which is the national anyway research people  
and they said that the uh that the pollution would not go high enough  
and it's going to be interesting to see if carl [sagan] and his billions and billions of stars   may have once made a mistake  
but the the the general the opinion among among the uh [meteorologists] at uh  
i'm uh member of the american [meteorological] society  
and  
yeah  
i do  
but i'm uh i i did that in my  
no i'm a planner a production planner  
but i i i'm in the active reserves as a [weatherman]  
so  
uh i i keep up from time to time  
but what the the argument is that uh that uh maybe there isn't global warming and maybe there is  
but um if there is uh we probably could do something about it now  
and if there isn't if there isn't and we do some the right things i think  
how do you feel about about all this smog and stuff on cars  
well do you have an older car  
i i have been working on an older car  
but it  
yeah  
well i'm restoring one  
i'm not having any problem it's a seventy  
and the  
but did you have another  
you said you had another  
uh  
no  
i didn't see that that  
i know that the uh  
that's  
well that  
they called nuclear winner  
and and i suppose that's that's the ultimate uh pollution problem  
well it  
well the [chernobyl] accident uh  
actually um because the circulation budget as high as it went uh covered uh a fairly remarkable amount  
they did some [tracers]  
and they  
i i think it's drawn in uh  
i think gets in there  
i can't think of the other trace  
but i saw a a presentation on on that  
and they  
it went quite a long ways but i i i guess i can be a little sympathetic  
but you know there's some argument that in in in the blue grass of kentucky that the [smoky] mountains that that's the uh the pine trees giving off pollution  
and  
but the  
but when you when you get up in the morning in in dallas and and see all that haze from west texas   is that is that pollution  
well it  
that's the thing is that i think i think dallas really does have a problem in this  
the idea if we could get some cleaner fuel burning fuel  
the problem is is it's like los angeles  
people don't people don't want to use mass transit  
so  
but who wants to who wants to um ride a bus  
well my boss drives forty miles one way each day  
and one of the guys that works with me drives forty five miles  
and and they don't think it  
well i guess they do think something of it  
but um not even to you know  
you consider how much um  
but then you get into all these issues of of whether it it's the types of pollution and what it's doing to your lungs  
and   are we going to die of of respiratory  
so we all move out of the out of downtown  
so we get away from the the smog  
my my wife grew up in southern california  
and they moved out to the valley before los angeles uh when the valley was clean  
and now the valley is not  
and so people move out one more valley and  
yes yes   well do   general motors apparently has one that they're they're testing  
i think it's no it's alcohol vehicles that they're testing  
but they suppose  
huh  
well the road and track was talking about that this apparently general motors has some uh  
they apparently think they're close  
well there's still a lot of research  
i was over in in the research lab a couple i guess it's been about a month ago  
and saw this research it was a little light that says solar solar powered research  
yeah  
well do you work in that c building  
oh i'm at  
oh well i'm in i'm in the c building  
been there for all my life  
huh  
well that's been a  
i know the focal plain [array] is they were taking space to a long time  
well the problem is that gas at a dollar a gallon you know who wants to  
yeah  
i mean we want to not pollute  
but uh at a dollar a gallon uh it's hard to beat   the amount of energy you get from uh  
well i thought i saw an ad for volkswagen that had an alcohol  
they had one with spots on it and something  
i didn't go  
but  

it was showing they  
i mean uh  
an article  
no  
i didn't  
i didn't go  
so i  
they've done a lot  
well  
well they uh  
it's interesting though because my cars are older  
and so i didn't have to  
if you live in dallas county you have to have your have to have it checked  
and it's  
i had a friend with a [fiero] that uh they tried and tried and tried and had all kinds of terrible getting that [pinned]  
and so apparently  
well i um i haven't really lived in a lot of big cities  
i mean i'm living in dallas now  
plano is outside of dallas  
but um so i don't really have a lot of experience with air pollution  
but i know when i lived down in houston on the outskirts of houston there were some towns like pasadena that had oil refineries  
and um if you would drive by there like on your way to the beach or something   there would just be dumping this huge amounts of smoke   into the air  
and it always smelled really bad  
we know that that was really really really bad for the atmosphere  
what have you got up there  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh no  
sure  
yeah  
it's just i mean it's just so bad that there is just so much going into the air  
and   and the little bit you say that there putting in here and there and everywhere it all adds up  
plus all the problems in the middle east  
with all that smoke and  
yeah  
so it's just um why are we doing this to ourselves  
i just don't know  
but um i you know what really amazes me about like that pasadena area and the oil refineries   is that there would be houses and people living just really close to it  
i mean between the freeway and the oil [refinery] you would see a neighborhood  
and you just thought well it's obvious that there's a lot going up in the air there  
and what comes up must come down  
yes  
and and how if they have all of those um  
[toxicity] i mean it there's signs around saying how dangerous it is  
and here you are living  
that just doesn't make too much sense  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well um individual companies and things are so selfish  
and their desires to save a few dollars and and that  
they don't care about the environmental impact   that they make  
yes  
huh_uh  
well have you ever visited um like los angeles or any place that's ever it's kind of known that it has uh pollution in it's air  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
that's so awful  
well what about in new york  
i guess you've gone that way maybe  
pretty funny  
well i've been to new york  
i have relatives that direction  
we have  
it's um  
where you are  
is it close to [phoenixville] pennsylvania  
because i have family there  
and  
oh huh_uh  
it's pretty neat  
that's beautiful country up that way  
i know  
it's um very lush and pretty   up in the back in the east  
it's really  
well i'm thirty one  
seems kind of old to me  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yes  
that's really true  
and we all you know need to be willing to help pay a little bit like  
i've heard some people uh [grumble] about their uh cars passing their emission tests   and things  
and how they've had to how it's more expensive and things  
and i thought well it's so much better  
huh_uh  
oh you don't  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well i really think it must  
i think every  
i mean well think about how many automobiles there are  
and each is putting out  
like we have a car  
an older one of our cars is an older car  
and every time you start it from the tail pipe it makes a black spot   on the cement  
and you know that that is a sign  
yeah  
and that's all cars are doing that  
and it's really polluting the air  
huh_uh  
and it's also it's causing of lot of the real terrible suffering like cancer   and things  
we sure wouldn't want   so much more people suffering from that  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
pretty sad  
oh no  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
no  
no  
it's scary  
it's scary  
huh_uh  
it's really awful  
well i've really enjoyed the conversation  
it's helped me to think more about some issues that i need to be thinking more about  
huh_uh  
and it's instead of waiting until it directly affects me like you say   it's important to be involved ahead of time  
well you have a good day  
thank you  
bye bye  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well i i live out in the country  
so that part is good  
uh we're maybe one hundred miles from pittsburgh  
which has a lot of pollution from their plants  
and right now in our area were fighting against a toxic waste incinerator  
and uh it won't be too for from where we live  
and everybody really has been you know fighting against it because we we do not want it  
well we don't want one any place  
we would like the uh industry to do more to take care of the waste products before they turn to incineration because we feel that uh the small percentage that they're going to be putting into the air is too much  
you know   huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh that has to be terrible over there  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
breathing it we're breathing it all the time  
huh_uh  
no  
and i figure we're paying to take care of this toxic waste no matter who does it  
so   and they have shown some of the industries have been real good at uh uh doing their part in uh reducing the amount that they have  
uh they've reused some of it uh  
it can be recycled a lot of their things  
and that they've shown that it uh to begin with apparently it does cost more  
but once they get started it's really it saves them money in the end  
and it cuts down on the end product that has to be dealt with some other way  
and if they would all  
that's what that's what we want done  
is we want industry to take you know more responsibility in taking care of it  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
they're greedy  
it's money is what is  
it's it's the money  
they're making fantastic amounts on these things  
and uh even the incinerator the money and the income that they're going to make off this is you know just astronomical  
we've never been  
we went as far as as uh like las vegas   and yellow stone park  
we did go we should have gone the whole way over  
but we didn't  
but i understand that  
we have an aunt that lives out there  
and   when she was visiting here she would look up at the stars  
and she said how wonderful it was to be able to look into the sky and see some of the things that she saw  
she said they couldn't see those things out there   because of the smog and everything  
no  
never been in new york  
i don't want to go there  
have you been there  
oh  
um no  
i never heard of that one  
we're near pittsburgh clarion university  
it's it's kind of northwest part of pennsylvania  
huh_uh   you sound very young  
are you a young person  
thirty one  
you're you're young  
no  
you're young  
you have a lot of life yet  
and and these  
we have some people who say well this isn't going to affect me this air pollution  
uh older people  
or they think they're far enough away from something   that it's  
and they don't realize these things are going to affect everybody  
and if you're older it's not going to affect you that way  
you have grandchildren  
you have children uh  
nieces nephews whatever friends  
uh everybody is going to be affected by it  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
they say it has really made a difference though  
now see we don't have that here yet  
no  
we don't have that testing in that down here yet  
but they  
i have read that that that it has really helped where the problem is greater where the population is greater  
and that it has made a difference  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
something is coming out  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
if you have to put a price on it which is more valuable life or paying a little more  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
and like i said i think you have to pay for it no matter what you do you with it because it's industry  
we're paying industry to make the products  
and   we're helping pay for there making these end products that are   toxic waste  
then we have to pay for them to pay somebody to carry it away someplace  
then they put it in the dump some place  
and they find out well this dump doesn't work  
so we have to clean this up and move it someplace else  
we end up paying for it again  
now we're going to end up paying for it again by having it burned in these large [incinerators]  
and we're paying to have our air polluted and our water streams polluted  
or the  
where they want to put the one area they want to put the incinerator is right in the middle of the clarion the two water sheds that feed clarion river  
and you know it just boggles our mind that they can consider even putting it there because   if that water gets contaminated it will go on down to pittsburgh  
it will you know  
it affects so many people  
and it's just hard to think that they could allow them to do things like this  
huh_uh  
it really is  
it is really a concern  
so   huh_uh  
well you too  
huh_uh  
bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh i don't know  
there's a lot of air pollution  
um i think industries and companies provide a lot of it  
and with uh i guess with the oil burning over in kuwait and stuff that would have a lot of air pollution in it  
um i'm north of pittsburgh  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
um we have a couple we have like a steel mill and a couple refineries and stuff  
and i know there's a lot of air pollution going in there  
and like they they get fined whenever they do the air pollution  
but the fine is nothing you know  
it's like nothing to them  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my god  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
but i don't know what they can do to really prevent it you know  
like how  
what can they do about the oil burning over in kuwait  
what you know  
i mean they fine the industries  
but you know that doesn't seem to stop them there  
i don't know what else they can do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i  
yeah  
i just don't understand you know what else anyone can do about it  
i don't think it's something that people really think about either  
you know it's i mean it it should probably be a big issue you know because it's it's doing a lot of damage  
but i  
it's something you know  
i don't think many people really think about it because it's nothing they  
i don't think we really have too much control over it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
well i really don't know too much else about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we have tried  
i mean you know and um i i know where you know where a couple of the mills that have  
i know they put things on their stacks you know to filter the smoke and do all kinds of things  
but i mean every now and then it breaks you know  
and   and you just have smoke going out into the air for a day or two until you can get it fixed  
and so so you know it's something we we have tried to help  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
well  
uh_huh  
it's been nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
well discussing air pollution today i guess  
um uh well give me your first [impressions]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh puts a whole  
yeah  
gets a whole new picture to what real air pollution can be  
but uh that stuff going on over there  
what what uh what part of pennsylvania are you in  
okay  
okay  
so it's it's amazing too you know with that with the oil wells burning over there that's the exact same stuff that's coming out of cars every day just in uh just in a little different grade i guess  
but uh in dallas we've got we've just uh brought in a whole new set of requirements on inspections and things like that for cars because uh people just don't use mass transit and stuff in dallas  
everybody loves their car  
and you see an awful lot of uh one person vehicles on the road on during rush hours  
that seems to be our biggest problem down here  
um you know there's uh there's a lot of industry around  
but uh it's not it's  
any pollution that industry's dumping around here is not going into the air  
it's typically water type situation  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's it's   like like two hours of output or something like that  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
i a uh i grew up in south dakota  
so i was never i was never exposed   to anything of of the of the sort  
um there were always e p a people and what not were always telling us that uh farm chemicals and what not were destroying our water system and all that  
but we just we just never saw the results  
there was there was dust in the air during planting seasons and what not  
but that that was all we ever saw  
and then five years ago i moved to dallas  
and i suddenly started to understand what burning eyes and all that stuff is about that i'd always heard about  
it uh it's it gets it's real depressing  
in the morning sometime you can tell if it's a good day or a bad day by uh how far out from downtown uh you can be on the road and still not see it  
and uh yeah  
i mean it's not  
i don't think dallas is considered uh a real bad place for air pollution  
but you you can tell you can tell the differences in the days when it's when the haze is kind of [yellowish] gray instead of just being a a foggy [misty] color  
and uh it it's a little it's a little disappointing sometimes you start to realize what you're breathing  
right  
right  
it it's that there really isn't a whole lot  
it's one of those uh it's one of those things that if they do a little bit and uh and you know every little bit does help  
i do believe that  
um but i also believe that the earth is a kind of a self regulating system  
and uh it will clean itself up eventually  
it  
the whole idea is not to not to push the limit too hard i guess  
let the you know let the natural natural systems take care of the problem as much as possible  
uh_huh  
right  
and it's one of those things  
it it's so hard to measure what what the damage is  
it's kind of like oh  
i guess it's kind of like kind of like cigarette smoking you know  
it it could go on for years and years until they start to see some results and people can actually actually say yeah it's it's it's doing doing some damage   and something's got to be done  
um there's you know there's a lot of things like that  
it  
you can uh you can pound on something for a long time before it finally breaks  
but until it breaks you don't really know that there you were doing anything to it  
but uh  
yeah  
well that's that's  
i think we both agree it's it's one of those deals that uh  
i just think there's a lot of other problems right now  
and uh we've done a lot to take care of it  
and uh  
oh sure  
sure  
oh there's no doubt about it  
i don't know if you ever happened to see some of the like twenty twenty and what not about [rumania] and east germany when they first got pictures out of there   about how some of their systems had been running for twenty and thirty years  
and uh you know they had absolutely no regulations no controls whatsoever  
and they had destroyed entire forests and what not just because the air was so polluted  
that's that's the kind of things that uh you don't see in this country  
and that's that's why i think that you know it's  
i don't know if you can ever do enough  
but uh i think it's all relative to the to the time and place  
and i think right now it's it's pretty much under control  
all righty  
well you bet  
bye  
so well this is an appropriate topic the day after earth day  
so  
um well what do you think is uh the pollutants the main pollutants in the air  
yeah  
well that's me too  
after um  
on channel thirteen uh they had some some programs the day before  
and i'm not sure that about yesterday we didn't really watch it too much yesterday  
but the day before they had a lot of programs about the environment and you know how we're affecting the earth and things by what we do   as the people  
and and they mentioned sulfur and carbon dioxide a lot  
and that actually um as our population increases and you know our of course our our cars you know our number of cars increase per the population that's the problem but also like you said the industry pollution  
and you know they're they're regulation that's placed on them is i mean it's better than it used to be  
but it's incredible that they still don't have you know they don't they're not made to regulate the amount of pollutants that they put into the air  
you know i i just  
i can't stand that  
and i know for a fact that they get away with a lot that  
you know they're supposed to be regulated because we have a we have a plant i don't know about t i but we have a plant uh a pillsbury plant   in in a town [adjacent] to ours  
and i know people that work there that  
of course you wouldn't think pillsbury would put out certain chemicals  
but they put out toxic chemicals there just in some of the um what they do uh to uh make their dough and to   clean out the flour and stuff like that  
yeah  
i mean it's incredible  
and um they said that they're you know they have a little creek that runs by them  
and some of the people that work there have told me that when they have [inspectors] coming they you know shut down everything  
and they clean up their act but on a normal basis that they're that they're dumping things   that they're not supposed to be dumping  
and i'm like if they're getting away with it   can you imagine  
that's a that's a pillsbury plant  
i can't imagine plants  
yeah  
they have chemicals that they use to [refine] their [flours] with and stuff   you know to to break the [flours] down  
and then they they also do testing there  
and i don't  
you know when you consider you know it's probably not radioactive  
but toxic can be can be anything that's uh classified that can damage the earth  
so there could be a lot of things that they could put you know that chemical wise that they use to uh that they are testing with   that they're dumping  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think they do the packaging at this plant  
but they do they do a lot of research  
and they do um they do do a lot of the [refining] up there  
or  
i'm not really  
what's it called when you do flour  
i'm not  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but  
i mean you think about it it you know  
it's probably a lot easier to detect things that go into the ground than it is maybe to just  
i'm not really sure  
but i would think it would be easier to detect those things because you could detect them down or stream or such  
or you can you can you know do uh testing on the ground itself at that point  
but when they pollute into the air and you've got you know and you've got movement through the air it's going to move a lot of that off  
so i don't see you know how they can do some of the  
unless it just hangs there like in places where it's a lot of pollution you know like in los angeles or or the bigger cities where it it tends to get stuck there  
you know that you have a lot more particles in the air   you know per per uh per particles in the surrounding community because it's not moved away  
but um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i know out in some  
i'm not sure  
i can't remember the name of the county  
it's it's where [stillwater] is or   sweet  
no  
i'm not sure  
i know it  
i think it's uh  
i know we have a piece property there  
it's called [dublin]  
it's in [dublin] texas  
i'm not really sure what the county  
it's stephen  
no  
[stephenville]  
okay  
where [stephenville's] at   they've had a lot of problems because they've um introduced a lot of [dairies] there  
so they have a lot of cattle in the area  
i mean they've got like per per uh per lot  
you know they've got like a lot of head of cattle because [dairies] they don't  
it's not like it was a big ranch where they let the cow roam around free  
they've got to have them there to be able to milk them  
and they  
and i read in this article i couldn't believe it where you know like one cow produces like a day produces like a hundred or so pounds of manure  
one cow  
i was like my god  
and they  
and this thing says that that you know people think well cow manure is good for fertilizer  
but when you get that much manure it says it becomes a real problem because it's not it's not  
when you know you buy cow manure at the store they've added stuff to it  
and they've added [humus] and stuff that   breaks it down  
and and this and this article said that they've got a real problem that um you've got toxins and and uh bacteria in the manure that is  
what it's doing is it's going through uh  
they don't have a very deep um  
you know they're water   they're natural water uh  
i forget what that's called with you know  
it's like a spring spring water  
but it's below the surface  
it's not very far down  
and all this stuff is [seeping] through to the water  
and they're like they're afraid that you know within a certain amount of years that it's they're they're water in that town will be totally polluted  
and they won't be able to have any drinking water because they will have um polluted completely polluted so that they're you know there's too many toxins and [bacterial] growth  
and i'm like my god you know   just from that one you know just from them introducing dairy farms   in that one county  
no  
not when you figure  
i didn't realize a cow one cow produces that much manure  
and they were talking like   thousands of cows you know   they were talking thousands cows in one little tiny area  
you  
well they are evidently  
but um i mean evidently a normal cow produces that much too  
but they're just so spread out on ranches and stuff that it's not you know a problem  
but when they get them in these tiny little areas you know and they've got a real big problem  
and they they said that that what they were doing was scraping it with [bulldozers] and stuff and taking it to   uh these like ponds that they had to filter it with  
but the ponds because they've had so much rain in the past few years they just   overflow  
and they overflow into the the creeks and stuff in the area  
so that just creates  
you know there there's  
and oh it was just disgusting  
it said the creeks will foam  
people people stand outside their houses and their watch the creeks foam brown and all  
and i'm just like oh my gosh  
and the smell is really bad they  
yeah  
but i i don't know  
it really frightens me though as far as the when you think about the you know thinking of just air pollution itself  
and then and channel thirteen they're really um [emphasizing] the problem with acid rain you know  
if we if we keep putting that stuff into the air and and you know if we keep creating the problem and not doing anything about it that it's really going to be a problem for um just the the earth you know what the earth is receiving back you know   because how can you tell where it's going to come down at  
yeah  
the rain forest and all  
yeah  
well they do because what is it carbon dioxide   they use that where we can't [synthesize] it  
and they're [synthesizing] it for us  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we just have to  
i don't know personally you know  
i suppose you know if you just make sure your car is   is working properly  
and  
you know they're  
nowadays they have the emission controls on them  
but uh i think the only the main thing is just keep on the your legislators back you know as far as  
seems like they've only just really started as far as the environment saying   okay we're really going to get involved  
it it's really becoming a problem  
by the year two thousand there will  
what what are we going to have  
what kind of results are we going to have for the environment  
and and what will we  
right  
i have trouble with the chemical plants and things like that i just uh i think they put off so much  
and they're not regulated enough  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
really  
huh  
oh  
right  
i wouldn't have thought that pillsbury could would the i mean or even had you know well  
those chemicals would not  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
you know like in   in packaging  
and uh you know just goodness  
yeah  
yeah  
uh only thing i can think is [bleaching]  
but i mean i   i don't know what's how they do the flour  
but um we we're on the southwest side of houston  
we don't have that much as far as uh [aiming] in the plants over on this uh the east side does  
we've got [imperial] sugar  
but uh and they're you know they're right there on the creek also  
and uh they've been there for years  
and uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know that  
i worry every now and then  
we're still on a well water  
we're not on city water  
and i think well what if somebody's dumped something back there in the and no one knows about it and you know it [sinked] in through the ground and all that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
it will  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the  
right  
right  
yeah  
and the the ground will filter some of it but not all of it  
these are well fed  
these are  
good grief these are well fed cows uh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
oh now that's bad  
oh i was going to say the air pollution alone there just from a hundred pounds of cow manure was going to be bad  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
and then cutting the trees you know that bothers me  
as far as you know the  
yes  
uh we've been wanting to  
well not me  
but uh it's been or suggested that we cut a few of the trees down here  
i'm like no  
you know for what's cut down here you know more will be cut down someplace else  
and it will just take that longer to grow back  
and trees help so that uh  
i don't  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
believe me it's just so much better  
so uh yeah  
i knew  
i think there's lots that be that could be done to to improve how things are done now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
all right  
do you have a bunch of factories and stuff out there  
the uh  
oh you mean   for like smog and stuff  
huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
what do you think of that uh the greenhouse effect that's going on  
yeah  
that's causing the hole in the ozone  
uh_huh  
it it is scary though isn't it  
right  
well all right  
north carolina  
that's up there by kentucky isn't it  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
well kentucky's next to virginia i'm pretty sure  
well i'm from kentucky  
i should know  
but   i don't  
i'm sorry  
but kentucky we use to have severe i mean just real cold cold winters  
and we'd have three and four feet of snow  
course here in texas they don't have snow  
they don't know what snow is  
they freak out when there's snow on the ground  
oh amarillo  
well that's close to here  
how long have you been in raleigh  
well how old are you  
okay  
well we're the same age  
yeah  
i forget my age all the time  
so that's okay  
it's i think it's just something that goes with the territory  
but to me texas see and kentucky we had to have ice on the ground for them to close school  
okay  
in texas i'm serious if it gets cold and it looks like it's going to rain i i swear they close everything down  
i just laugh  
i mean i do  
they get i mean  
and traffic [slows] down to nothing  
oh well no  
i'm from the north  
that's why i said we in kentucky we  
i don't know  
you just get used to the weather  
and of course the people down in south they they're not used to cold weather and stuff  
and uh   it just  
i don't know  
i just laugh  
every time they have a every time they have snow   on the ground everything's closed up  
and you know you can have snow on the ground and not be slick on the road  
but uh  
no  
not really  
i mean not to see it  
now of course there's you know t i is here oscar mayer  
and there is a few factories  
but i don't see much pollution going on  
uh_huh  
well see they have that um what is it a test or something like that they call it  
and uh   that's supposed to cut down on it  
yeah  
school buses and the   commercial buses  
yeah  
well they're burning that diesel fuel is what it is  
and uh it it gets bad  
uh_huh  
well that's a good idea  
well uh the you know pregnant women aren't supposed to walk along a highway   because of that smoke fumes  
when i was pregnant with my first little boy i had read it  
because back then because i was walking back and forth  
well not back and forth  
i was walking home from uh the college i was going to   in kentucky  
and i was having to walk along the highway  
it was just one day a week  
but it was in  
i i have no sense of smell  
so i couldn't smell this  
but it would make me sick  
and i'd be real tired anyway   just from walking   along the highway  
but  
yeah  
it's  
yeah  
all the exhaust uh  
well that was four years ago too  
it's probably a lot worse now  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you uh smoke  
yeah  
it's kind of  
yeah  
because you do smoke one a day  
um uh  
for the air pollution  
huh  
but they  
i don't hear much about it down here  
course texas we don't have a bunch of pollution  
but too we've got that air coming in off the coast  
and you know it'd blow it up north  
so maybe that's part of the reason it's not so bad down here  
but no  
it would seem like it would be the same way in on the california coastline wouldn't it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but they usually have that everywhere because of the humidity especially  
i think they do that for most everybody  
especially it's usually for the young children and the older the old people   older old people  
it is  
oh  
oh well this is pretty wooded area down here  
so  
in a lot of parts  
yeah  
i know texas is supposed to be flat  
but they've got you know down by the denison dam   there's a lot of uh  
they do  
they live close then  
in durant oklahoma  
you go where uh  
you go to visit them  
oh  
yeah  
well down by lake texoma there's a bunch of wooded area  
this  
but but kentucky's beautiful  
they've got trees  
and trees are supposed to you know [purify]  
you know what the best indoor [purifying] plant is for smoke and stuff  
it's a [philodendron]  
it's supposed to filter the air for you in your home  
i had one  
my husband bought it for me when my daughter was born three months four months ago  
yeah  
i do  
yeah  
i do  
yeah  
i did  
i couldn't make myself quit  
i did cut down a lot  
i got i i've got one vice  
and smoke is smoking is it  
i don't i don't drink  
and i try not to [cuss]  
and i do i do very little  
and smoking i just i got in the habit of it when i was about thirteen  
yeah  
we're down here at the bible belt aren't we  
uh i wasn't saved until i got down here  
and people down here are just  
there's so many christians  
and it's so different from kentucky  
but  
um i worked at t i for a while  
but then my brother in law works there  
and he got me into it  
how'd you get into it  
well it's fun  
i like talking to new people  
and i half the time well a couple of times i've been interrupted by my little girl  
i've had to hang up and stuff  
but i enjoy it  
i talked to people from well what carolina now   up in uh boston and new york  
well boston is new york isn't it  
no  
boston massachusetts  
but i've talked to people in new york  
but i've talked to a lot of people in texas  
because i guess it's because t i down here  
with boston i love their accent  
i do  
i love the boston accent  
i met a girl from boston one time  
my husband was in the service  
so we went from kentucky to louisiana   down here to texas  
and his family's   down here  
we're out of the service now  
yeah  
he got out of it his unit right after panama  
we went to he went to panama   when noriega was doing all that  
and uh he  
um we've got quite a few actually  
what we're more concerned with is the inner pollution in the city  
um we've actually had some warnings in uh raleigh   uh on air pollution  
uh_huh  
because of there so many cars  
and we have a belt line around raleigh where we're trying to [divert] traffic  
and um you know it's still it's just surrounding the city  
and you can actually see it  
there's a couple of uh tall buildings   in raleigh  
and and you can actually you know  
they're [blurred]  
they're even dark  
and what it is is the pollution  
well i guess that's the [fluorocarbons]  
and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's very serious  
i mean we can we're even feeling the effects of the weather from uh uh the shift in the jet stream  
oh yeah  
i mean uh the last two uh years our winters have been absolutely nothing  
i mean maybe one snow  
kentucky  
uh north carolina is all the way on the east coast  
it's further west than georgia  
it's uh right below virginia  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
originally i'm from texas  
so i mean amarillo  
so uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
real close  
um i've been out of texas about ten years  
oh twenty uh seven  
i almost forgot my age  
oh really  
um  
uh_huh  
actually they've been doing the same thing here  
it's you know it's kind of funny  
they um i guess [northerners] are different  
but even uh north [carolinians] they don't know how to handle cold weather  
uh_huh  
that's true  
do you all have much pollution there  
uh_huh  
well you know what irks me is these cars that are driving down the road  
and you have that black smoke coming from their tail pipe  
uh_huh  
well  
supposedly that's supposed to catch it  
but i'll tell you what  
and even these buses oh lord it real bad these buses in raleigh  
oh yeah  
i mean school buses are notorious  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well you know what they've started doing is is instead of the tail pipes being at the bottom of those buses   they've started putting them up at the top  
and that way it gets above um other cars on the road  
and uh it really does make a difference although it it settles you know  
even if it's at the top and it's a lot of black smoke coming out it still settles  
and and you know if you're going to be jogging on the side of the road that's that's even more miserable  
i would i'd have to go out to the country to jog  
no  
i didn't know that  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
golly that's that's bad  
oh i'm sure  
well they um you can really feel it you know in your breathing even normal people  
and if you're older um i mean you can really deplete your [oxygen]  
and it'll you know pass out  
and it's you know it's killed several people  
um actually i'm a very i just smoke one in the evening if that  
so i'm a very very light smoker  
it was kind of funny  
they were doing some uh ozone testing and uh the e p a  
and they were just screening some candidates  
and i don't think i'd ever you know do that  
but they uh asked me if i was a smoker  
and i didn't fit into the [smoker's] category  
and i didn't fit into the [nonsmoker's] category um  
it was you know i was just one of those  
yeah  
in between people  
so that kind of threw them off  
but they're doing a lot of research here uh the e p a  
for ozone and oh yeah all that  
they're they're real big into it  
they've got research triangle park here  
and they're you know they're just doing a lot of uh lot of stuff  
huh_uh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh gosh i think i would hate to live in california the smog there  
i mean i can't believe they have warnings here which it it's mainly just when it gets real real hot  
really  
well that's kind of good to know  
because i thought lord i thought i lived in a halfway decent area  
um  
uh_huh  
well you ought to come to north carolina  
it's a big change  
yeah  
there was no trees where i was from in amarillo  
and here they've got the mountains the beach the trees you know  
it's   they've got streams rivers ponds  
it's really pretty here  
is it  
uh_huh  
sherman and denison  
do you know my grandparents live in durant  
yeah  
yeah  
real close  
i go there  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
we used to go fishing in lake texoma  
huh_uh  
oh really  
well i'm going to have to get some  
uh_huh  
do you smoke  
do you  
did you smoke when you when you were pregnant  
well  
i mean i can understand that actually  
well  
yeah  
well one thing i miss is uh is the people from texas are are you know  
i miss their morals their values and everything  
it's uh  
uh_huh  
how'd you get involved in this research  
oh i see  
huh  
um i i was taking a voice i o class and um and actually doing some research  
and so they told me about this project  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh no  
boston's above  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've talked to a lot of people in texas  
i had one call actually from charlotte north carolina and virginia and um  
i can't remember where all  
from up north like you said  
i think one was from boston  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i bet you're glad  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
um what do you think the major cause of air pollution or at least in the boston areas  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
um that isn't the same in the washington area because we don't have any major um industry except for uh government and services  
and the the transportation situation is such that uh all the car pollution is is absolutely awful  
um also the worth of the [hub] of three [airports]  
in this general area there is uh national dulles and then uh baltimore washington  
and it  
interestingly some of the information i've been reading [indicates] that the amount of air pollution from uh uh airplanes is extraordinary  
yeah  
and that's always something that you know you just don't real you don't think about  
but the uh  
apparently the air pollution and the fact that it's delivered right up in high [altitudes]   is a very significant factor  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
society   has especially recently  
i mean you know what it's like here  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we just had the  
that's right  
so solutions to this   would be  
i i  
you know improved  
well i guess the the to me the first thing is i wish society would get as upset about this as you do get getting people upset about animal rights  
i mean this is so so basic  
it's human rights in the sense  
but uh in terms of demanding it's just not caused  
but demanding that uh we can spend so much money on certain things but that research really be directed toward um improvement of polluting vehicles and not just cars but also buses um planes that something can be done i i can't imagine that well  
if we can't send people to the moon   that we can't improve these things  
converter  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and that for buses  
that's right  
well and also to make it economically feasible   uh and also in buses  
i don't know if you ever got caught in a traffic jam behind a bus  
that you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but even of course in the longer term just to get away from fossil fuels  
i mean i'm i'm thinking of research in that direction rather than  
we we've taken the intermediate step  
but i don't think   fossil fuels are the answer  
uh_huh  
yes  
i  
yeah  
yeah  
you don't throw the baby out with the bath water   and condemning nuclear use  
yeah  
yeah  
but with the pollution issue uh fossil fuel is not the way to go anyway  
uh so you've to you've got to look elsewhere  
so uh but it is something that's a little frightening  
and in fact well i  
within our family we have said  
my husband  
i have two sons uh well  
one is already in college in new england  
and the other will be going in september  
and we just feel that when we leave uh this area we're going north not south  
uh i like the mentality north  
and i also like the [fresher] air up there  
so i mean that's the way we will be going  
but um so i i'd be interested in having spoken with somebody also from the far west on this issue to see how they their attitudes are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the smog and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean even california was notorious for its smog years ago   before it even was an issue   out here  
well that that's   that's that's personal air pollution  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
well i i definitely advance that  
well listen i enjoyed speaking with you  
and let's hope some there are other people that feel the same way  
you're welcome  
bye bye  
well the the the major cause it seems up here is  
i live right on the ocean  
so it's kind of hard for me to tell what would happen if i lived in some of the valleys inland  
but the major cause here and we always seem to and it seems to be [validated] by the press is the car pollution  
we don't have too much industrial pollution  
uh car pollution seems to be the one and only thing that that i can really put my finger on here  
is that so  
i didn't know that  
well most people talk about the noise pollution from airplanes rather than the air pollution  
yeah  
i would think so  
you know uh i guess it talked about all types of pollution  
i happen to just read something the other day at least in the boston paper there were three things that that come to note  
one is that the carbon [fluorides] that are uh being released into the atmosphere are causing even a larger hole in the southern hemisphere in the ozone layer  
and again  
and now they've located another one or rather an expanding one in the northern hemisphere  
so  
so i'm quite concerned  
i don't think it's involved any longer with with uh hair sprays or those  
no  
i think it's now is what uh from what i understand it's air conditioning units  
and and   we certainly turned into an air conditioned   society  
yeah  
i know in florida there's no place you go that isn't air conditioned  
and i do quite a bit of business in washington  
and  
oh yeah  
it's quite  
is is the  
it's really out of the norm not to find something that isn't air conditioned  
and  
and i guess refrigerators   are the same way  
they release that  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
well i i  
yeah  
no  
i think that it can be done simply because uh uh we've we've  
every car now in america that's been produced for the past fifteen years has what they call a catalytic converter  
and no lead gas was came to the pumps  
and and that's been done  
there's the lead pollution has that problem essentially i guess because it was at crisis [proportions] was   was [licked]  
and i think that there are there are solutions  
certainly we don't even need a need a research anymore  
it's just a matter of passing the law  
and passing the law depends on how heavy the car industry the automobile lobby is  
that's right  
that's right  
oh yeah well  
that that the the smell is awful  
and but you know i was reading the other day not to go on with this but that   diesel fumes actually have less pollutants in them than gasoline fumes  
so i guess you're better off sitting behind a bus than a car although i can never i could never uh really rationalize that while i was sitting there  
yeah  
well we you know  
up here in new england uh where i've  
right close to where i live is the [seabrook] nucleus site which is   practically a you know [guerilla] war up here   went on for years  
uh my daughters [marched] in the uh uh against the [seabrook]  
and i kind of uh  
my feelings were that we needed this bridge to   to uh to jump from whatever it was going to be from fossil fuel to whatever it was going to be  
yeah  
unfortunately though i think the oil companies have [lied] to us for years  
so we really don't know whether there's enough fossil fuel left  
or there isn't  
and uh and uh  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
that's right  
yeah  
well since since texas and louisiana and uh california that in that [ranking] order the worst pollutants in america  
i mean i read that the other day  
i mean louisiana for a small state it was amazing  
but it's the industrial pollution i should imagine  
and california seems to be taking steps  
i mean you you read about the the fairly   fairly stiff laws they put in on cars now they're they're enforcing  
but uh again uh that didn't occur without a crisis  
nothing will occur i guess without a crisis  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
well the greatest thing that happened to pollution in the last couple of years as far as i'm concerned is the no smoking rules   on airplanes and in restaurants  
and it it really is a pleasure for me although i guess smokers don't think that  
but that   to me was pollution  
that was its most personal   personal uh pollution that i can think of  
surely  
something happen  
right on  
thank you  
bye bye  
uh we are to discuss air pollution and uh what we think the causes are  
and i probably would uh target uh   industry as being number one [polluter]  
well vehicles  
and and  
yes  
right  
because uh there's a lot of commercial vehicles out there   especially those the big rigs like the [busses] and um   the big   uh eighteen [wheelers] and so forth  
i think they would generate probably uh one of them would probably generate enough for three cars  
but that's not  
and i think it can be resolved if uh if they really let go with   the technology that they have at uh at their hand  
and they haven't released it yet  
i think there's a lot of hold back uh because   of uh-oh priorities that they have   you know  
and uh it's  
you have some children  
oh okay  
do you have do you watch children  
or do you  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting  
um is there anything  
well temporarily they do  
then we get out of that phase   soon enough  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
well i know uh uh in michigan uh the way they used to take care of the trash is they would [incinerate] it  
and the fumes from the incineration was a terrible [pollutant] to the air  
and um of course now  
no  
and when they  
and you bury it  
and it's not gone either because it has [untold] ramifications  
and uh   and it gets into into people   you know which is uh the the most important um resource that we have is people  
and they're and they're destroying us  
they   really are  
so i think the [cockroach] will evolve uh safely  
so they say  
yes  
but there's not enough  
and we need expert cooperation  
yeah  
education of the   education of the people is primary i would think  
and uh and we're hard to teach  
we are hard to teach  
absolutely  
yeah  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
yes  
uh of course uh we would like to see it [accelerated] because uh of the critical nature of it  
the the learning of it and the  
just to um think that way we have to be in that thought pattern and able to um motivate ourselves to um uh do what is right for the atmosphere  
um i think we're all contributors  
i mean every human being that lives is a contributor   to pollution  
so   we just um  
uh_huh  
well hopefully it can be resolved within a shorter time frame than we have seen it done in the past   that the time frame for cleaning up our air and our and our um land you know which uh we get our [nutrients] from  
you know i mean   everything goes back to the land  
so um it's just um very critical i think at this point to   uh get that through to the people and get us educated  
uh_huh  
i i don't know if they offer classes in uh the uh in the grade school   uh uh [subjecting]  
in science  
okay  
what grade level would that be  
would that be um perhaps   the first grade level which would be  
well i mean are they starting though at at with the children that are so  
their little minds are like [sponges]  
and they can really   uh relate to that  
target stores  
oh okay  
okay  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
help fight the pollution  
oh that's wonderful  
well i'm sure that uh perhaps they're the leaders you know  
and other will others will pick up on their example and carry it uh further  
you know because uh thoughts are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's probably a major one  
i think uh individually uh just by the vast number of people there are there's i think cars are also a major contributor to it  
yeah  
vehicles  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just a minute i'm on the phone  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it  
yes  
i have i have five in the kitchen at the moment  
you need to shut the door please  
shut the door right now  
we have the air conditioner running  
what do you need  
hurry  
i'm on the phone  
yes  
you may  
and they keep turning the tape recorder up besides  
um i have three of my own  
and i have uh two that i'm tending for the summer   off and on  
so  
they cause more noise pollution than air pollution  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
but um i think another  
you can tell when you go around cities you can smell specific things from from specific industries  
i remember being  
i i grew up in new jersey  
and uh i can remember the smell of [newark] [vividly]  
and it's the type of industry you know which obviously if you can smell it it's in the air  
yeah  
well people think you burn it it's gone  
but it's not gone  
uh_huh  
then it just gets into the soil and into the water  
yeah  
yeah  
we really have to do more  
i think we've got to do more with the recycling  
that's  
i'm i'm really glad to see that there's more of that happening  
yeah  
well it's a  
we're getting  
at least they're starting you know  
so at least they're moving that direction  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well  
it's going to it's probably going to be a generation or two before   before it's really going   very well because now the adults are more aware of it  
and the children are being taught in the schools more it'll be you know on down the road this is going to be passed on which is good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think you're right  
education is a big thing   you know  
and as we educate them individually what they can do people become more aware of the things in industry too that that are causing problems  
and and i think that they'll they'll work towards solving those problems more too um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
just a minute and i'll turn it up  
i'll turn it up in a minute honey when i'm done  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think science has come a long way to making it so that it's possible to find ways to solve the problem  
um  
i think they teach it a lot in science  
yeah  
i would think that that's where it would come through  
i   i think they're kind of getting it in all different grades  
yeah  
i think they are starting probably in the first grade  
they're you know they're hearing somewhat about it  
um i know uh target has their program to make kids more aware of it  
and  
yeah  
they've got if you go in the [entrance] they've got uh stands usually where they have um little uh kind of a little newspaper thing   that the kids can read  
and   and they can form a a group to um  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
well i i know it's it's a hard problem to solve because you you know like mcdonald's has changed back and forth between paper and foam and that kind of thing  
and they do all these studies on which ones pollute more  
and then there's the paper and plastic bag question  
okay um  
in plano  
yes  
where do you live  
oh okay  
huh  
um i was trying to think uh  
something we were watching the other day  
and they were doing an [overview] of los angeles uh from an area that was up higher  
and you literally could see the band of smog  
that uh  
i've never been out there  
but   it was it was quite evident that   it was a real brown area  
and  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yes  
well i know uh that's been the concern in europe  
they hadn't  
uh we have friends in germany and uh have family that live near the black forest area  
and large areas of the forest are being hurt from the cars because when we uh switched to the unleaded gas and and had the emission control advice uh devices required on the cars uh  
that's something that europe didn't do right away  
and now they're doing that  
and i guess it started in the last few years because they have found that in that particular part of the country that's the only pollution that's been there  
it's not an area that is industry  
but they were losing a lot of uh trees and a lot of  
um i guess from from something that the car was uh was giving  
yes  
and  
yes  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
i i get that sometimes um  
my line gets some static  
i don't know why  
well i know it's um  
we did have a solar water heater when we lived in houston  
and uh oddly enough i thought our part of the country was ideal  
oh i don't know what to  
usually it's the other phone i have trouble with  
it must just   be on the line  
can you hear me  
okay  
i don't know what uh i i don't know what the problem is  
but uh when we lived in houston we had a solar water heater  
and   we had thought this part of the country would be ideal for solar homes and solar energy  
and we have enough clouds that uh there are other areas that would be better suited  
that surprised me because i think   we have a tremendous amount of um sunny days  
and and it  
yes  
it can be used  
and it can help  
but uh that was a problem that they were still working on  
but  
well i  
yes  
yes  
uh i hope so  
well i do think um  
i mean you've already mentioned several things i think uh just the change in attitude and the fact that more people are aware there is a problem and more people are interested in uh  
yes  
yes  
well   and and for the future generations too uh  
yes  

where do you live  
in plano  
in dallas  
uh the air pollution isn't too bad in our area  
so we're very fortunate   but i know in some areas it's really it it really is bad  
i haven't either  
uh_huh  
well i think it would be terrible to live in an area like that  
and unfortunately i think there are a lot of areas that are that that bad  
particularly in the areas where there are industries uh where they are burning a lot of coal   and oil   up more up north i guess uh  
i think it's a bigger problem with the car pollution anti pollution devices  
i think uh air isn't as bad it once was from the cars because we certainly have plenty of cars in our area  
from acid rain  
i think it gives off uh in the emissions it gives off [gases] which combine up in the atmosphere uh and form a a weak acid  
it just makes the rain fall on the acid side  
and after a period of time i think that [accumulates] in uh trees because they take it up through their roots as well as it landing on the leaves on [surfaces]  
like you've seen what it's done to buildings even   where it's really bad  
what's interesting several years ago i took a course uh on uh well  
it was actually it was put on by the power companies and about the various sources of energy and how much pollution there was  
and there wasn't from various kinds of of energy  
and uh at that point in time one person that was a speaker brought up the topic of acid rain  
and it was kind of pooh [poohed] you know  
oh you're making a mountain out of a [molehill] kind of thing  
and it's turned out that that's been very true what he was [forecasting] about the [accumulation] of of the pollutants in the air and the acid rain and what it would do to [foliage]  
so it's kind of interesting the change in perspective from when i took that course  
now a lot of people are really afraid of nuclear  
uh i'm not afraid of nuclear having had that course because of how the nuclear that uh they use is not bomb quality  
and we're so strict with all our controls in the united states the chances of of an accident are slight  
and it doesn't pollute the air at all  
it's safer to be around a nuclear plant then it is to be around a coal plant  
many more deaths have occurred in and dealing with coal plants then ever around nuclear plants  
it's kind of funny because people are just [petrified] at least some are at the thought of nuclear  
so i don't know  
in europe there's a lot of dependency on nuclear power  
and they recycle the fuel  
and then instead of of  
some people are really afraid to recycle the fuel because they're afraid it could become uh bomb quality  
but that's the only sensible thing to do is recycle and reuse the fuel and not store it down in the ground as far as i'm concerned where it could eventually perhaps there's some problem uh pollute the [groundwater]  
so i don't know what the answer is  
the best answer of course would be solar or uh fusion or something clean  
well we've got a problem on the line don't we  
uh_huh  
but uh solar of course would be the clean the [cleanest]  
i can't hear you at all for all this static  
now i can again  
uh_huh     uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it it's still got a long way to go  
it's just you know a possible solution   in the future i think maybe to help in some ways  
it may not in all ways  
maybe they'll come up with fusion you know be able to control it  
i don't know how long that'll take  
but one of these days  
because that's perfectly clean  
it's just we can't control it  
right now it takes more energy to cause fusion to occur then you get out  
so it isn't not at all  
and you can't control it unless you gotten a huge [electromagnetic] field  
so that's not going to work at least not now  
but uh who knows what the future will hold uh as far as energy goes  
i i think with solving some of the energy future energy problems we'll probably solve some of the pollution problems as well  
i do to  
i like to be [optimistic]  
i don't like to be [pessimistic] about these things  
we have one earth   to live on  
and we got to take care of it  
uh_huh  
i've noticed students are are much more you know young young people are much more receptive to ideas about the environment   and protecting the earth  
and so if we can raise it uh you know generations with those concerns we'll solve a lot of our problems  
i'm afraid  
i know i was part of the me generation where they didn't so many of them didn't people didn't care  
you know  
it's whatever you know  
recycle well if it's a problem forget that  
uh not throw the trash out the car window  
and leave it in the car and then throw it away  
how horrible you know  
now i've always done those kinds of things because i just didn't like messes  
and  
okay  
and i'm up in wisconsin  
uh my name is terry  
and uh in the small town we don't  
but uh we're not that far from the city where there's tons of pollution  
okay  
i'll go ahead and start recording that  
okay um  
just in particular here in the twin cities we have a lot of big corporations  
and um   i'm sure there's a lot of pollution  
we uh  
before moving to wisconsin lived across from where they were um [gravel] pits   and also where they were making tar  
and so we would occasionally if the wind was blowing the right direction would get the smell of tar  
and   it would uh  
smell the continuous  
you knew that you were also breathing that into your lungs  
so   and it was like miles away  
but just the idea of having that come across the way it did in the wind   kind of made you know that there was a lot of pollution  
and that was just one small corporation that was doing the pollution of that  
but   also um where we also lived too it was very close to a highway  
so got a lot of fumes from uh trucks   and cars  
and you would literally see the pollution on your furniture  
i mean it was   on your tables  
you would dust every day  
and it was dirty um type of dust  
i mean it wasn't the typical dust that you get way out in the country   um  
for  
i live in a small um town now quite a ways from the twin cities about an hour away  
and i may dust once a week  
and that's all it needs versus every day when i lived in the city  
so  
oh yeah  
it it comes right on through   through the screens  
the only way that you could actually live in the in the city is to close your windows and have an air cleaner system right in your home   that would take the air from the outside and clean the air before it would get into the house  
and so it was quite a dirty city  
um if you were well protected by trees which catch a lot of the pollution   then you're fine  
but most of the time in the city you have lots of high [rises] you have lots of other things that are not catching the pollution  
and it's just going   for miles and miles and miles  
and it's landing somewhere with the wind  
but  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
sure  
yeah  
it's  
i mean our air quality um in the twin cities is a lot better than what we've heard about california and   maybe in the other areas  
but um they were always talking about the air quality of today is this you know the ozone or whatever  
and it's kind of scary because the air is something we take for granted  
and many people are too busy getting to work not thinking about okay i could have [carpooled] with a friend  
even   my husband was uh talking to some of the guys at work  
now he's uh fifteen miles away from work  
but he was talking wouldn't it be nice to carpool  
and the guy says well it's too close  
it wouldn't pay  
and so  
yeah  
and  
exactly and so my husband says well that's fine you know  
it would save quite a bit on the wear and tear on cars   and you know the gas  
and no  
everybody has their preference to drive by themselves  
or if they do they they drive with one little buddy uh  
at least it's with one person  
but most of the time people are saying forget it  
i don't want to carpool  
it's too much of a hassle  
it's too much involvement  
but yet  
yes  
we are  
and i think of my daughter  
and i'm sure you think of your children  
and you kind of say to yourself what kind of future will they have when they think back and say well my parents did have the choice to kind of make a difference  
and maybe people are trying  
but they have to change attitudes  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
sure  
well they  
my name's mary [dell]  
and i live in the dallas texas area where there's a lot of pollution  
oh  
uh_huh  
yes  
okay  
oh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh   i'd never thought about that being a cause  
i have to dust a lot as well  
yeah  
uh_huh  
my goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's kind of the way dallas is  
we're so flat and open  
and i live in a suburb that doesn't have much vegetation trees  
it was all cotton fields  
so   we don't have that advantage  
and ours i think is primarily cars where we don't carpool like we should   an airport  
i work in a building  
i'm nineteen floors up  
and i look out toward d f w international  
and there's just an awful brown haze all the time  
and i can imagine it's even worse for people living over near the airport  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
want to meet my own schedule   those are the arguments we hear  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but we're   paying for it  
uh_huh  
and it seems to me that it's already so evident with our children having a lot more respiratory infections   than we had growing up   you can really see it  
i i had a chance to go to [bolivia] a couple years ago  
and of course there's no industry very little trash  
they   they don't even have that much that they burn because   they consume everything down   to the thread  
and it amazed me  
i i just had totally forgotten how  
okay  
for as far as um i would think the probably the uh worst substance that's probably um  
or started to say the uh  
what causes the most air pollution is probably the car  
and uh whether or not um they'll ever get into like huge transit systems into big cities where people would all travel on a high speed uh train or or something like that  
or  
yeah  
that's exactly it  
and that's what we're finding um here where we're at in minneapolis area is that people don't want to carpool   that there are [inconveniences] to that  
or maybe you don't like the person you have to you would want to carpool with that kind of thing  
so it's it's kind of a thing where uh i think the majority of the people do not carpool  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
or if somebody gets sick  
yeah  
or if somebody gets sick and it's not the other person   and they want to go home and that one person's got the car   then they're they're stuck  
you're   definitely right  
so   yes  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
that happens quite a bit  
yes  
yeah  
that's very true  
uh other than that uh i don't know  
okay  
oh okay  
we'll try to be real quick here  
the other thing then is because i don't know how long they want us to talk  
five minutes oh okay  
minneapolis area  
uh actually no  
we have uh quite a bit uh  
the only problem that we have and that's all over the whole world is ozone   and of course hay fever season  
you get some pollutants such as those  
but those are natural  
um but there is starting to  
in minneapolis itself because of so many people on the highway there is becoming a problem of pollution  
and   they just put in a strict law that as of every year when you get your license tabs   you have to have your car inspected   to see if it's releasing any uh lead into the air   or other pollutants  
and if that's the case then you have to get your car fixed  
at least where you  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
it's not a bad idea  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
exactly  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh the other thing when you're talking about freon with cars uh air conditioning i'm sure   over there it's a necessity   versus something up here we can live without it  
but it's uncomfortable  
but uh this year my husband [recharged] our freon because it was needed to be done  
and one of the cans released entire amount   of freon into the uh into the air because he opened it  
and i don't know   if there was something wrong with it or it his directions weren't quite fully instructed onto that  
and i was thinking how many other people  
oh sure  
because   if you take it into a service station   they want to charge you forty dollars just for uh freon which only costs you about three dollars  
so i have this feeling that freon probably will increase in price because it is something that people will have to take into consideration and say hey that's   that's right there  
i think it's like three or four dollars a a can  
and it takes about four to five cans to fill up a air conditioning unit in a car  
and i i thought about that  
and my husband even was kind of [woozy] after that because i'm sure he [breathed] it  
but uh you think about that all the people that are using freon and things like that  
and   uh_huh  
exactly  
pump yeah  
probably so  
yeah  
it'll be hard to get people to give up their mobility  
uh_huh  
i think so too  
i'm in texas  
and very few people carpool  
uh the people that i know don't want to because uh they never know for sure what time they're going to leave their job  
they never know when they want to run out and do an [errand] at noon you know   they just feel they need their car  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and people don't want to give it up  
but now i think we've made great strides   in changing a lot of that by going to the unleaded gasoline and   and to change the car itself  
but uh you know i i don't guess we can get away from it a hundred percent  
but   yeah  
well my other line is ringing  
but we're going to ignore it  
i'm sorry for these [beeps]  
oh close to five minutes i believe  
and you're in minneapolis  
well is the pollution really bad up there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well   that's the way it has gotten here  
we have just had that law i think about a year maybe a year and a half here in texas  
but uh i think it's a good idea   because a lot of people still want to drive the older cars   which you can't blame them for that  
and uh but if they are polluting the air they need do need to have them fixed  
and you know there's a big move especially in the industrial part in texas right now of controlling the c f c   that the big manufacturing companies are producing into the air   they're having to change the type of products they use  
uh they can't use  
like i have a friend that's in the air conditioning heating business  
and they have to pay a penalty for every ounce or pound of this certain type of freon that they use in the air conditioning systems  
therefore the individual every time they have a service call if they have an old unit that's still using this twenty two freon or whatever   it is it costs them three times as much to get it fixed  
and uh if you have a new high efficiency system that uses the new type of freons that do not release as many c f c into the atmosphere   it doesn't cost as much   so eventually people are going to have to go to newer systems you know  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
it's probably happened to millions of people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[inhaled] so much of it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well of course in the uh  
i think you probably noticed in the discount stores and places in the hair sprays   we're not seeing as many aerosol cans down here   nearly everything is in the pump [squirt]  
so what do you uh think is the uh the worst [culprit] for air pollution  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i uh i  
it's hard to put the finger on uh what's worse you know the acid rain situation or the ozone [depletion] um with uh your hydrocarbons uh   causing the damage in which  
well i notice on one of these uh home shopping networks they were selling these uh [halogen] uh fire [extinguishers]  
and the [halogen] is uh an ozone [depleter]  
and it got hydrocarbons in there  
it's a very clean uh fire [extinguisher]  
but it's you know really bad on the environment  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
uh in the twin cities area  
i just moved out of there and was kind of happy i [timed] it just right  
but they had a new policy where in order to get your uh your license uh your car license uh renewed you had to meet the pollution standards  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah uh  
yeah  
i guess that was just mainly in the cities there  
and as far as where i live i don't have to do that  
but   i have an old car which i doubt would uh would uh pass the inspection a seventy six  
and uh you know there's no way i would put in a lot of money to to repair it   to meet standards  
yeah  
so although i do what i can to to cut down pollution  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well well around here i we get uh  
well it depends you know  
either in the in the winter time it it blows it your way  
and in the   summer time   we probably get yours  
yeah  
yeah  
well it uh that's a big thing too  
i know it has nothing to do with air pollution  
but i kind of look at the way people treat our  
okay  
well i think it's it's probably a combination of things  
um factories that that burn coal as a an energy source with sulfur and nitrogen [contaminants] you know  
and you get sulfur oxides and nitrogen oxides  
uh those are the ones i think primarily contribute to acid rain  
and i think that's that's probably hurting us a little bit  
it's hurting you know it's hurting germany for example too and some other parts of europe where they where they have high industry  
so we're not the lone ranger here  
yeah  
hopefully we're backing off from that a little bit  
but i know we haven't cured it yet by a long shot  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
i guess i missed that one  
uh  
automobiles of course are contributing too  
and you know how how we are with our love affair with the auto  
kind of hard to do anything about that i guess  
yeah  
we have that here too  
but it's part of the inspection sticker you know  
they put a [probe] in your exhaust pipe  
and and the computer reads whatever the [ionization] is coming out  
and   so that's you know that's the way they're dealing with it here  
yeah  
yeah  
it'd probably be difficult anyway  
i was just reading an article in uh mother earth news mother earth news magazine  
and uh they've got a new uh  
you know a lot of places are burning wood  
a lot a lot of people are burning wood  
those of us who have  
i've got a place in the country you know  
and uh they've had catalytic you know catalytic converters on those on  
uh i think they're required in california and oregon and and washington  
but they've had up those for quite a while  
and somebody's come up with a new one that uh sort of  
it's a it's a catalytic converter  
it's it's a plate that fits in you know into the smoke pipe  
and uh apparently it sort of feeds itself  
the more smoke is produced you know  
after you get to like five hundred degrees the higher it gets the more complete the [combustion] is  
and it sounds real neat  
i haven't seen them priced anywhere yet  
but that that sounds like that might help solve that problem even on   you know old old uh older stoves that don't have any kind of e p a requirements on them  
that might help a little bit especially in some places  
we're really lucky here  
we have a [prevailing] [southerly] wind that blows just about everything out  
now sometimes we get a kind of a  
especially in in uh autumn it seem like we get kind of a brown haze sitting on us  
but most of the time it's blowing out pretty well  
probably blowing up there to you guys  
yeah  
it comes back  
yeah  
i really think uh you know we're doing some some important things  
education raising consciousness awareness  
uh i know school kids  
i work for the school district here  
and uh you know this is one of the big things with kids  
kids are writing letters to the newspapers about you know telling adults to   clean up their act  
and it's uh you know  
i hope we're not too late with it  
we're we're uh we're having all kinds of recycling  
up up there maybe maybe you guys don't have as uh big a problem with air pollution as many do you  
do you really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's horrible  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well uh in dallas i i haven't seen air pollution quite on a quite on a level that we had in denver  
i grew up in denver  
and and i've lived there most of my life  
and we used to have those uh you know the posted warning days  
uh however in colorado now they have the emissions control law which has really cut down  
probably only once every couple of years do we ever have pollution so bad that they have to post warnings now you know as far as health concerns  
uh due to that the the emissions uh uh control on the vehicles seems that all of our all of our uh smog was caused by vehicles rather than industry  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it it becomes uh  
maybe to you and i who have grown up in some in uh uh some more beautiful parts of the country uh i think that that uh we become a little more aware uh rather quickly of of what's happening with air pollution and how uh how horrible it really is  
um i i notice people in in dallas seem to say well sure there's air pollution but you know really how bad is how bad could this problem really be  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
do you find that um or or do you [hypothesize] that that most of the uh smog or or air pollution comes from vehicles  
or does it come mostly from industry up there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i had talked with my parents  
i i grew up uh i was born in uh [muncie] indiana and and grew up a little bit in [terre] [haute]  
and i had asked them before uh  
i went back to visit recently about a year ago  
and i asked them  
i said did you ever realize the air pollution that was  
we we we have a terrible air pollution problem  
our summers are extremely uh hazardous  
and during uh certain wind directions because we get the uh gary indiana   chicago pollution  
and we can look out on the lake and just see the brown haze uh   coming up along the lake  
and they do post uh uh warnings for people who have uh heart diseases or respiratory problems   during that summer season  
in the winter it's not as severe  
but uh if the wind comes basically from the south it can be really bad  
uh the state of wisconsin as a matter of fact uh started some litigation against illinois because of the air pollution we were getting  
uh i don't think it's going to go very far  
but it it was uh a way of uh [triggering] uh awareness  
so what's the conditions like in dallas  
um  
wisconsin has a a law in which we need to take our cars in every year when we apply for a new license tag   and they are tested for uh their pollution control equipment  
and if they don't qualify then they have to take it to a mechanic and have it gone over and then verify that it it is [drivable]  
so they've they've tried to do a lot of that  
and i  
you know there seem to be at least in certain little pockets  
and we were talking earlier about madison  
madison has one of the nicest uh bike uh road uh sharing programs of of any city in wisconsin  
and all wisconsin has probably the most extensive number of uh bike trails for recreational use   of any of the states  
and there is a a real promotion of of biking  
but um there are still a lot of people who insist on on driving their own automobiles   uh to go everywhere  
i find that a little irritating because   i don't think it's always so necessary  
send send them to wisconsin  
and we'll let them try to drink out of some of the lakes   and try to fish in some of the lakes that have been suffering from uh the uh acid rain  
and   they'll they'll they may wake up you know  
how'd you like to own a piece of property where your lake is going sour   because of acid rain  
it's uh really a serious issue for those of us up in this uh sector up up here  
i think it's mostly vehicles   although it does come from some of the industry of of the gary area  
and uh i don't know exactly where it [emerges] from when it it's up in the uh northern sectors of wisconsin  
that causes the acid rain  
that i'm a little [uncertain] of  
but   i do know that uh it is a problem  
okay  
first off   speaking of air pollution i'm coughing  
um i'm not sure what contributes to air pollution exactly  
i find it hard to believe that a lot of the hair sprays and things that we use cause the air pollution  
it doesn't seem like  
but i guess when you think of it everybody has some sort of aerosol in their home   you know  
and it's kind of dangerous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
but you think the mountains and the are kind of a barrier  
oh  
that's an interesting thought  
uh_huh  
here in texas i know a lot of the pretty much every place here is relatively flat  
and so i would think that that would probably contribute to us not having that big of a like a smog problem or   something like that  
um  
uh_huh  
i  
i  
yeah  
i guess i've never really uh thought about the fact like in california they they have a lot of smog problems  
and it's real hilly there  
so that is probably something that plays a big factor  
i think probably just uh a lot of factories um you know they have the smoke stacks i guess you call them   and different things like that  
uh_huh  
aren't they supposed to be coming out with some sort of uh special gas or something that doesn't [emit] certain chemicals or something  
um  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the diesel  
oh yeah  
i know a lot of people with diesels  
truck you know  
but um  
no  
i don't  
i i work in waco at a t v station  
my mother works at t i  
that's why  
yeah  
yeah  
you work at t i  
oh okay  
okay  
oh okay  
that's interesting  
what else causes air pollution um  
noise  
noise causes air pollution  
yeah  
that's why i thought of it  
oh  
yeah  
landfills  
we just  
yeah  
we just had a big uh thing here in waco  
they're needing to open a new landfill or to expand onto the old landfill  
and uh it's it's really been a big fight because a lot of the people that live by the landfill don't want it expanded because they're thinking that they're water is going to be contaminated somehow  
and so they  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
one   one of the big concerns is they have a there's a school right across the highway from the landfill  
yeah  
so the parents were really really upset  
yeah  
they they've been fighting over it for the last year  
and they just now approved it  
so they're going to try an appeal or something  
yes  
yeah  
it it  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh i don't know  
we live um well i'm close to salt lake  
and there's mountains uh you know all around  
but sometimes i think tend to hold a little bit of it in you know  
really it's it's fairly clean um  
i think it's a fairly clean city compared to some  
but you know how quite a  
yeah  
i think sometimes it seems to be  
but   but uh anyway i don't know  
i know there's a lot of plants here  
when i drive down   you know along the just along the freeway there's a lot of plants that they're burning things  
and  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
we we have a real fog problem um  
the last few years just in through december and january it it really is foggy and and seems to just um  
it's kind of like it it just stays for a month   quite foggy  
but uh gee  
i don't i don't know what else  
i know   cars  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that's what i see burning a lot  
i'm not exactly sure what they're burning  
i know uh_huh there are some oil companies  
and i'm sure that that contributes a lot  
just the burning of the  
oh i don't know  
i haven't i haven't heard that  
i know uh  
i don't know how your emissions test is on your cars or anything  
but i know i think they they differ from state to state  
but um you know that's been a new thing in the last   few years  
and i guess some cars are a lot worse than others  
i think those uh  
what are they  
the  
i know  
a [rabbit's] one diesel  
the diesel cars  
yeah  
they seem to put out quite a bit  
huh  
oh  
well do you um are you working for t i  
oh okay  
oh  
oh uh_huh  
and that's how you got involved  
yeah  
no  
we we have um  
my husband's sister lives in dallas actually  
and they kind of got it us involved that way  
yeah  
but well i don't i don't know  
yeah  
noise  
i've got  
speaking of noise you can probably hear my little  
yeah  
he is quite noisy  
yes  
gee  
i don't know  
i know that um  
don't dumps you know where you dump all your   trash   in the uh  
yeah  
i'm sure that does  
i know they're always [churning] that up  
and i i think they burn a lot there too  
oh  
well i don't think i'd i'd like that  
you know we um  
when we've taken things to the dump just the dump uh that is uh you know closest to us  
there's   some houses around there  
and i know that on windy days you know   they're always moving the the trash over to different spots  
and they've got those big [bulldozers]  
and you can see the dust   flying  
and and i'm sure that their homes are really quite   dusty  
and  
oh is there  
worried about their   their kids getting huh  
how you doing howard  
this is a a subject that i'm not real well versed on  
but  
okay  
no  
okay  
i'm from the uh  
i'm from dallas  
i'm in richardson  
what do you think as far as air pollution in the dallas area  
right  
right  
oh really  
sure  
well you are you are well versed on the subject i tell you  
this is not one of my better ones  
i guess i guess i notice it the most just uh in driving around dallas with all the the highway equipment that's working on the   on six thirty five and seventy five just the cars in general  
that's where i see most of it  
right  
oh i don't know i've lived here since seventy four howard  
and i i think i think they been working on the highways around here since i've been here  
and i think i think they'll be working on them long after my wife and i are gone  
right  
i understand  
i sure hope so i tell you  
you know you get out on the uh interstate highways versus  
i travel quite a bit  
and traveling from like dallas to austin to san antonio it's the same thing as far as the pollution created by the automobiles in the in the [stalled] traffic and the busy highways you you you're at your best  
and i guess when you're out on the interstate heading north or south and you're just [cruising] right along and there's no build up of cars  
and  
yes  
i tell you what i i don't think i really have  
but i'm going that way tuesday  
and i'm going to make it a point to  
sure  
oh i know  
i know going to uh uh  
i [detest] going to houston because it's such a  
i guess we're ready to talk  
well let's talk about air pollution  
what do you think causes air pollution in dallas  
or where are you from  
maybe you're not in dallas  
okay uh  
well i have some small experience in this area  
the brown haze that you see if you look down central towards downtown   a lot of that is uh tied up with the oxides or nitrogen although some of the kind of [bluish] gray stuff we see sometimes is tied up with particulates  
but uh the one of the major problems that dallas has is oxides and nitrogen  
that's because of all the equipment that's being operated but at the same time uh because we don't have we don't burn a lot of coal and solid materials we   don't get a lot of particulates  
now particulates would come from trash burning or incineration or something like that here in dallas  
uh power plants since  
many of our local power plants uh are natural gas most of the time uh the things that come off of those plants are carbon dioxide and n o x  
there's no particulates in natural gas of course  
and we pick up a little bit of sulphur off some of these products  
we're burning fuel oil and a few other things  
but gasoline of course now the [lead's] out at least theoretically uh i guess you could say we're picking up some sulphur because a lot of the fuels does have sulphur  
that's why we get that rotten egg smell sometime off the catalytic converter   the sulphur yes  
and that's uh course [hydrogen] [sulfide] which is when you burn gasoline you also produce some water [vapor]   and that goes back in with your sulphur  
and under the right condition you get h two s  
but anyway uh  
well i don't know  
uh_huh  

uh ron a lot of this is caused by the fact that cars sitting in traffic tend to run rich because the way the pollution is  
and when they run rich they they spit out a lot of hydrocarbons  
and that's another part of the problem  
the gas is not being burned completely  
but uh hopefully if we ever get our road system fixed up this will get a lot better  
well i guess i not trying to top you but i grew up in dallas county and i can remember when they built the north part of north central which was built after the south part of   central  
and uh i can remember coming over the hill down there long about uh i don't know little bit north of mockingbird on up in over those hills  
and i said i wonder if they'll ever need this road  
course it was designed for most of us to go about forty five miles an hour because the short on ramps and are off ramps  
but gosh  
seems like uh those ramps might kill us yet  
i  
hopefully the new ones will be a lot better  
yeah  
ron have you noticed when you're driving south on thirty five i guess towards waxahachie [hillsborough] on down to austin   you hit a point down there about i think where they call bear creek exit   on just this side of the county line  
right along in there somewhere suddenly the air feels cleaner  
have you noticed that  
well sometimes it depends on which way the winds blowing  
but uh i also travel a little bit  
and uh i don't know it just seems like there's a certain point down there where you can breathe easier  
it may be all in my mind  

yeah  
one of the things they asked me to ask you was where you thought the major source was coming from   or sources  
that's what   i would think  
right  
yeah  
i think the automobile definitely is an area and any any industry that burns you know  
and then i don't know about chemical pollution  
i'm not real into that as far as how it affects the air  
i know we have a lot of chemical the indoor type pollution  
they have offices that are too well [insulated]  
they found people are getting sick  
but i don't know if that affects outside  
you know i i think seems to think seems to me that's what they were asking about was outside  
and the thing i can the only thing i can think of would be cars and factories  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that is well that's destroying the ozone isn't it  
yeah  
that's  
it's kind of scary  
yeah  
i think something too that you probably see in older states all we we do it down here once in a while we will have a cold spell is where people will use their [fireplaces]  
i think it will  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
in this area too since you know in texas we're so spread out  
we have to drive so far  
but i know in colorado i have witnessed that where it just uh it just stacks up at the when the [rockies] starts  
but we're even getting it here  
we can drive into when we've been on vacation or something drive into fort worth or dallas  
and you can tell it in the mornings too  
my husband likes to go out and jog  
and there's just a brown fog here  
and we don't even have any mountains that are   holding it in  
but they also said that more dense the population and the more we crowd together the worse it gets  
you don't have to have mountains that are stopping it  
and uh they make uh making more and more high rise buildings  
and uh so yeah  
we can comment  
and we didn't see this a few years ago  
it was pretty clear here  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and it's a shame too when you do see somebody driving a big car just one person in that  
it's a lot of waste  
but  
well i guess we're uh forced to finally to do a lot about air pollution  
i hear that the major automobile manufacturers are looking at [nonpolluting] cars  
and low polluting fuels are being experimented with [ethanol] and other types of fuels  
i you know i assume   that the major sources are cars and factories  
but i   i don't know for sure  
i just know that um acid rain apparently is a big problem in canada from would  
comes over the border from us  
yeah  
yeah  
the [smokestacks] or the exhaust pipes  
um i guess there's been a lot of pressure to um do away with the c f c's in these spray bottles which   has been a real problem  
again i that's what i hear  
and and there's this big debate apparently about whether the ozone there's a hole in the ozone or not  
but at last i heard it was uh discovered that the hole was bigger than they thought   initially  
well it is scary  
and i think it will uh continue to force us to clean up our act   literally and [figuratively]  
we've got to learn to manage without destroying the environment  
i i i'm wondering whether it's going to get to the point where you can't   do that  
in los angeles they're apparently going to  
they've passed laws that for habit for example people using uh barbecues   gasoline lawn mowers um  
and it's really bad in places like los angeles  
and   it's gotten bad in denver  
and and uh it's not too bad around here although you see it you know more and more in the sky  
and people in this country are really [wedded] to their uh cars  
and our economy seems to  
and this i think is one of the big problems  
yeah  
yeah  
well that makes a lot of sense  
i mean i i hadn't thought about it that way  
but it it  
yeah  
no  
and i think  
yeah  
and i think that that more and more it's becoming apparent to people that the earth which includes all the people on it and everything that's going on it is a is an [organism] of sorts   and that there is a a whole set of organic relationships that if we start to destroy one part of it it's going to tell us about it  
and uh we're going to feel it  
and i think it's going to be real interesting and particularly in light of what is obviously going to be a big [structural] change in the economy   uh in this country uh whether people are willing to get out of their cars  
and in this country uh the the solution that that people seem to think work are politically unacceptable  
for example   taxing people heavily for using their cars  
and uh i have a little sports car that i enjoy using  
and i know just like anybody else how much fun it is to drive  
but i think uh we're going to have to make some fundamental changes  
and and i'm i'm not sure how long it's going to take or what it's going to take because they keep saying that the economy is going to depend on how many cars and   houses we sell  
okay  
you want to start  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's stuff we never even thought about three years ago  
um  
have they stopped that practice now  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
yeah  
i hate to see a car going down the street or even a truck or bus for that matter that's putting out a lot of dark   smoke  
and i know there's a lot of pollutants we can't even see coming out of   cars  
but that that particular bothers me  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i might as well  
uh one of the things i'm very concerned about the air pollution is the uh this this the ozone layer uh uh issue  
uh i used to own a heating and air conditioning business and handled lots of different types of freons  
and that uh rather bothers me that uh i was in in effect uh contributing to the delinquency of the the environment so to speak  
right  
right  
and one of the reasons they fixed up the freons eleven twelve and thirteen in in in that area was because they were inexpensive  
uh they could be made uh you know inexpensive and lots of it uh  
and in that and its properties were great uh with uh the machinery didn't have to have lots of expensive machinery to uh get your heating and cooling cycles to work  
so  
well course there's a a tremendous number of refrigerators and excuse me refrigerators and [freezers] both commercial and residential uh utilizing freon twelve  
and of course the new cars i guess starting with nineteen ninety three will not have freon twelve in their systems  
but uh there's you know the ton of after market machines and et cetera et cetera  
and that's got me very you know highly concerned that uh that's going to be quite a while before we can uh   undo this  
now that could [spawn] several good industries and help   pull us out of this recession  
but you got to have people that can make you know earn a salary to pay for this conversion  
so so i see us in a kind somewhat of a catch twenty two unless we unless the banks or industry and or the government go together and and come up with a way to uh have us as a part of the unemployed society be able to be [gainfully] employed again converting all this freon twelve stuff into the new [nonpolluting] uh [compound]  
because as i say there's a there's a  
well how many uh uh families own a refrigerator  
and then do you know that number and then how many a a freezer separate from   and how many people especially here in texas own cars and trucks with air conditioning  
i mean this is there there are people that that make it have a [thriving] business uh that do nothing but heating and air conditioning on on automobiles and trucks  
and uh the only reason i didn't uh get into that more when i was had my little business was because uh most of your uh air conditioning in in on vehicles tend to be greasy and dirty to the n [th] degree  
and i mean  
so uh that's why i stayed in stayed more towards uh uh  
and that's a polluting type deal too is the excessive um you know uh petroleum products in your engine bay and so forth and the dirt and [grit] and those two mixed together with with water and uh really make uh make a mess  
uh_huh  
right  
well most most most of the time when you see bus uh you know the [busses] with the diesel   that's uh those are carbon particles and carbon dioxide and water [vapor] uh  
because when you when diesel is burned it's it  
you know diesel fuel is burned in a in the diesel engine  
it's burned so completely that you don't have any uh [nitrous] oxides uh or oxides of nitrogen uh to uh form   because of by virtue of the very [combustion] process of the diesel engine because diesel oil is uh is not very volatile   you know where gasoline if you leave a little [pail] of gasoline out before long it's gone  
diesel is going to be around because it doesn't evaporate easily  
and it's got  
well you know it's [latent] heat is high  
but it's slow burning at at uh normal pressures  
that's why your diesel engines have such high [compression] [ratios]   as the as the air is heated you know by virtue of the [compression] process to like one to nineteen or nineteen to one   ratio  
and so if the car sucks in uh fifty degrees  
so how you like new jersey  
right  
i guess uh i don't know what part of new jersey you're in but i guess it's uh fairly industrial  
right uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
well i don't know about you  
but i've always considered automobiles to be probably the the prime contributor  
i mean there's a lot of contributors  
but it seems that automobiles would probably do more than their fair share of that  
yeah  
that's yeah that's that's a big issue is you know  
a lot of states don't have a uh inspection law  
so you get you get a lot of people out there without e t r emission control systems on their cars and things like that  
yeah  
and it's like  
sure  
right  
i guess from what i hear though uh next year ford is coming out with their electric cars  
they're actually coming out with the first [prototypes] in california  
yeah  
right  
i hope i i'm hoping that comes along quick  
uh i was reading a an article in time the other day about the ozone layer and how fast that's going  
and i guess it's it's really disappearing a lot quicker than people realize  
and i know that's not due to uh it's not due to to gasoline or to you know carbon [monoxide] so much as the c f c  
but  
uh yeah  
i think that's a that's a contributor definitely  
right  
right  
yeah  
i guess right now what they're what they're primarily worried about is third world countries because i guess united states and and russia have kind of taken the lead in terms of eliminating c f c production  
but   it  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
right  
and that's one of the arguments that the third world countries have been using is that basically they don't want to have to pay for our mistakes if if that makes any sense  
uh in terms of  
exactly  
exactly  
uh those of kind of yeah those are joining arguments  
but uh i don't know  
that's that's kind of an interesting situation there  
uh what they don't realize those third world countries what they don't realize is how quickly the ozone is [depleting]  
i guess the latest figures are up to fifty percent at the poles  
and it's it's increasing even as far near the [equator] as like florida and cuba and those places  
so it's kind of an interesting situation  
it's not not a real good one actually  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you don't get that that source of [cleansing] anymore  
are have you been in big cities a long time  
okay  
so you've got  
yeah  
those are actually areas that are hit pretty hard i would think  
yeah  
[denver's] definitely  
yeah  
that's one of the worst  
sure  
yeah  
[denver's] that that real good that real good uh example of sitting in a valley kind of like mexico city does i guess  
mexico city is historically been one of the worst   in the in the world for that  
but i've been pretty lucky  
i've lived in cities that really haven't had that much of a problem although uh i'm really kind of based in orlando florida  
and there you can tell that it's getting worse  
i mean it it definitely it's not at a level comparable to los angeles or denver  
but you can  
exactly  
yeah  
and there's not that much in terms of of public transportation down there  
there is  
but it's kind of it's  
uh it's pretty good you know  
you get uh closer to the uh coast here  
and you do get a good bit of uh smog and stuff especially from all the uh fuel cracking [towers] and chemical plants  
yeah  
it's  
when you get further east towards new york city it gets very industrial  
but i'm i'm about uh thirty miles west of there  
so you have uh actually green trees and such that you   don't notice that that other part of   new jersey exists  
actually very  
you know you go even a few miles out and you got uh farms and everything  
so you relatively clear air  
but uh  
oh definitely  
it's  
uh you know there are a large number of them on the road  
they're all you know going  
and a lot of them are in relatively poor repair  
oh even where you do have the inspections you know the inspection is once a year  
you get the car that's in the accident  
and muffler falls off or something  
and guy keeps driving along for long period of time after that  
yeah  
that  
and i think also some of the uh car companies are coming out with uh gas powered [fleets]   so you  
natural gas powered rather than uh gasoline  
it it is coming from cars though  
i mean the uh car air [conditioners] is   one of the major leaking sources of uh the uh freon   which is one of the major [fluorocarbons]  
well it it  
no  
it's it's the type of thing there that uh you know  
the third world countries are less industrial  
and they want to become industrial  
so they're on the different part of the cycle of the u s  
the u s used you know all the air pollution stuff and air polluting technologies to get where it is today  
or or they want the right to make the same mistakes themselves to [bootstrap] them up to the way where we   got to  
yeah  
no  
well you also have the very close related thing of the uh rain forest [destruction]   which is the main source of what's clearing out the atmosphere and   replacing some of the pollutants  
mostly i've mostly been in the east coast  
so that's going between atlanta d c area  

well not not as hard as some places out west because you don't get the uh major pollution sources as you do out in denver with the   inversion   and los angeles and rest of california which is just terrible it sounds  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
there it's almost all automobiles because there's not that much in the way of   heavy industry you know that would be causing it  
uh_huh  
well here in logan utah we've got a nice little valley here  
and it's like crystal clear all the time except for during the winter when the inversion sets in  
and then we get a little bit of pollution in the valley  
yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
here in utah up along the [wasatch] along the western side of the of these rocky mountains here where a lot of the big cities are salt lake and ogden and provo  
and [logan's] up in the valley a little bit further north  
we get a lot of pollution  
and it's like seventy percent of it is from cars  
and uh it always really hits hard during the winter when we get the inversion  
and when we get   get cold air down in the valleys and warm air up above  
and it just sits and sits and sits  
and we're starting to hit pollution levels now on the [wasatch] front which match that of l a a few years ago  
it's not it's almost sad  
because when i grew up here it was just always the crisp air up in the mountain valleys  
and now it's not in the mountain valleys  
huh  
they're getting serious about things like uh mandatory  
well they've already passed laws where you have to get your cars checked for pollution if you're in certain counties  
emissions  
yeah  
they've actually started doing it down along the  
not in logan up here cause we're doing a lot better  
we have a lot population is a lot lighter up here  
yeah  
yeah  
they're eliminating that out here  
they're also talking very seriously about the thing called a dirt gun where they're uh looking at the emissions from the car using basically a [spectrometer] and looking at the basically how much of what is coming out of the exhaust  
kind of like a [radar] gun  
and  
yes  
yeah  
do it remotely just looking at the what they do  
they do several different types of things  
sometimes they put a source light  
and they look at the source light  
and then as the car goes by you can see the exhaust pipe and the source light behind it  
and you can look at the emissions actually  
and  
like across the street  
they'll set up   like a trap or something like that in some sense  
and they're also looking at uh other you know ways of monitoring this and cause they've found out something basically that uh  
and a poorly tuned car can [emit] something  
it's an incredible amount  
it was like four hundred times as much   uh of certain pollutants and it was like [unburned] hydrocarbons then a properly tuned car  
and and the idea being that if you just tuned up all the cars well if you tuned up this ten percent of the cars that were producing like fifty percent of the the pollution then you know you it'd be one way to cut the pollution in half  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
and they're  
huh  
well here in seattle uh it's the [air's] getting more and more polluted  
we're uh we're in kind of a basin  
and uh seattle is on [puget] sound which is a inland [waterway] between two mountains  
and uh there's been a lot a lot of growth population growth around here  
and uh it's uh it's getting worse  
i think   most of it is from cars  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
i live in the   university district  
and uh uh it's supposed to have about the worst air pollution  
i think probably due to uh a lot of students going back and forth to school  
and then we're right next to interstate five also  
oh yeah  
have they started doing that yet  
we have that here  
and uh they're they're expanding it to uh more counties here uh as the population spreads out  
and i think they're also going to be making it uh mandatory for more cars  
there was uh something in the law about if you're car was over a certain age like over twenty years old you didn't have to get it done anymore  
and   i think they're eliminating that uh   that [loophole]  
yeah  
oh really  
you mean they could   do that remotely  
huh  
now where does the source light go  
oh i see  
jeez  
yeah  
that's neat  
but it's also been uh-oh you know  
everybody is talking about using more mass transient here  
but it uh it's tough you know  
like i've i've looked into riding the bus to work  
and i can drive to work in uh and get there in twenty to twenty five minutes over a very congested [corridor] which goes over lake washington on one of the floating bridges  
but if i uh if i take the bus it requires several [transfers]  
and it takes over an hour  
so so it   it's it's not hard to see why why i keep driving  
and you know i feel guilty cause i'm driving a  
okay  
yeah  
is it  
i know in here uh downtown dallas it's you i mean you drive by and you can just you can see it  
but then again i originally was from california  
and uh there is a big difference between texas and california  
and uh   they'd have their smog [alerts] and where you'd have to stay indoors for so many hours with an air conditioner  
and of course they don't have that here in texas  
so there's  
no  
not in not in well not in dallas that is  
yeah  
we're going there tomorrow  
uh_huh  
we're   packing and getting ready to go to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
you do then  
is it really  
i would not imagine that  
huh  
huh  
you learn   something every day  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've seen that  
huh  
huh_uh  
huh  
no  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
right  
huh  
and of course i doubt if there's any  
you can buy regular anymore  
you buy unleaded  
right  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
that is good  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
oh  
that would be nice  
i think i saw that on t v one time  
they  
maybe it was c n n where they were [demonstrating] that   or something similar to that  
huh  
but what  


i think that was a a a setback  
that they  
i don't know  
they went i don't know how many miles an hour  
i think like  
was that something   maybe it was  
i don't know  
huh   huh  
yeah  
and they're they're very expensive too  
well yeah  
yeah  
well it doesn't make sense  
because if they want people to convert you know   they should make it worthwhile  
yeah  
yeah  
um well i'll tell you   sometimes it's it's pretty bad here  
like today i think it was pretty bad  
i don't know if it was if it's just uh the allergies or what  
but   some days it's very nice here downtown  
and other days it's just really bad  
so i don't know  
so what what kinds of things did you experience in l a when you were there  
or can you remember  
were you there at a  
cause i haven't been there probably  
yeah  
well we were there when they had a  
okay carol  
so air quality  
uh_huh  
surely  
you mean they don't have the uh the smog [alerts]  
right  
i i   yeah i spent a summer in tyler so i know just east of dallas there  
oh really  
yeah  
actually i'm a california born person  
i was born in l a  
so i know what you're talking about  
in l a it's pretty bad  
uh the worst city in the in the world is actually uh mexico city  
yes  
the worst one for smog is mexico city  
the most polluted city in the world  
yeah  
i know that they've they're looking at uh uh you know uh you know better running automobiles  
uh some things they do one of them is they're using corn in fuel  
you ever heard of that  
yeah  
[methanol]  
yeah  
well that's big up here because of the they grow a lot of corn  
uh that's one thing that they do  
at that it's pretty easy to do  
and the uh  
unfortunately it still contributes to global warming cause you have to you know wipe out forests to grow corn and things like that  
it doesn't make sense  
uh but it's you know  
one of the most uh productive crop in the world   is corn  
yeah  
drive cars with catalytic converters   and all that  
it's interesting  
they're they're looking at  
there's some work being done on uh automobiles that are electrical powered  
and uh   they're looking at where you have a battery operated car basically  
but it has a a engine in the back   that charges it  
so the engine [kicks] on when the batteries need power  
and it turns off  
interesting thing about gas is when i mean about battery powered cars is when you're at a stop light you're not using any any energy  
unlike a car where it's running  
a electric car it's on demand  
i mean it's either on or off  
basically  
you don't have to shift  
so you  
cars become very simple all   of a sudden too  
very interesting  
yeah  
there's there's a race in australia with solar powered cars  
and ford and general motors and all those compete  
right  
yeah  
g m uh chrysler announced that they're going to they're  
well they actually have an electric minivan  
yeah  
their their caravan  
but it costs uh fifty thousand dollars right now  
to operate yeah  
but you know people are buying them  
you know whose buying them  
the power company  
free you know free for them  
kind of interesting so see  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's top speed is something like eighty miles an hour  
so it's   a good good   vehicle  
uh_huh  
oh i wasn't there too long ago uh  
well you know going over the hills you know coming into the valley  
you can see that horrible horrible brown haze  
well i guess without a doubt we'd have to say automobiles although i suppose manufacturing contributes uh quite a bit to air pollution
uh yeah
you know i'm wondering uh of course uh freon is uh is uh eating away at our
our what you call it layer there
ozone layer i wonder when they're going to what they'll be able to you in in place of freon though
uh well actually you know
that is the way a refrigerator works
well basically what happens is you have to have some form of heat
be it electrical as in your home refrigerator or [propane] as the one on the ship that you said
uh you had
and uh somehow heat must be created that freon oh i'm not exactly sure what happens
but apparently it expands in the heat
and in the process of expanding it goes through cooler [coils] and whatnot
and it becomes ice cold
oh yes
yes
[freon's] uh freon is in a closed circuit uh
that's why our present day [refrigerants] uh systems are not dangerous
unless the lines are broken
well did you ever see what happens when they uh replace the or [replenish] the freon in your automobile air conditioner
i mean there's uh a lot of it
is uh turned out into the atmosphere
and i understand now
uh i don't know if it's international or just here in texas or what
but uh service stations are going to require to have a special device to catch this freon as it is [expelled] the excess freon and therefore you won't be able to just pull in anywhere to or you wouldn't even be able to do it yourself at home
no
that's true
you know i can remember as a child
uh spending summers at my grandfather's place
and i'd be running around with nothing but a bathing suit no shoes socks shirts or anything
uh i mean from [dawn] till dusk and i developed a nice tan but uh my gosh never had to worry about uh skin cancer
or for that matter
you could stop at any stream that looked reasonably clear and and get a drink of water without worrying uh about catching some disease
um yeah
yeah
i tell you a funny thing happened to me with with polluted water uh t i sent me up on a trip to wyoming i think it was
and i was out in this little town kind of [backwoods] town you know where a big night on the town is going down watching the traffic light change
but uh i checked into a motel
and after i signed in and everything why the uh clerk told me uh don't drink the water it's contaminated he said now we do have bottled water we supply to our guests but unfortunately
we're out of it right now
but as as soon as we get it
i i'll see that you get a bottle of it
well the next morning i got up and the water had not been delivered yet
and
would you believe it
i brushed my teeth with [coca] cola oh well they had this uh it's some kind of a bacteria or carried by animals
and it they got their water from this uh beautiful mountain river
well maybe not quite a river
but a little bigger than a stream but this uh bacteria had uh [penetrated] their entire pipe system or water system
and they tried [flushing] it out
they they couldn't get rid of it
i've often wondered now this is years ago
and i've often wondered what they ever did
of course oh it was a beautiful mountain stream [bubbling] nicely you know the which uh is what [purifies] the water when
it [bubbles] yes
and yet even at that it was still contaminated yeah
yes
well i'm beginning to wonder too
i mean you you're always hearing stories about well the government [okayed] this
and then all of a sudden you turn around and my gosh it's okay to to doing it this way
but if you turn around and do it that way
it's dangerous
as a matter of fact i did
neither have i
uh yeah
i've often wondered about uh l a
now that's suppose to be about the worst city in the country
i guess for
air pollution
yeah
uh_huh
well uh they used to do it down in florida now i lived down there for ten years
no
they did away with it because they found out that uh the people that were doing it it was just a [racket] to them
and for uh for nothing to
yeah
uh_huh
well now here's another thing
diesels uh diesel engines are
are the worst
and yet they haven't done a thing to them
uh_huh
yeah
tell me about it
i just got rid of uh a diesel engine escort well they um i i had good luck with mine until it finally just blew up on me
here a few weeks ago
is that right
well
uh_huh
well now there was at one time as a matter of fact it may have been buick i think because i think it was g m that came out with a or diesel engine that was converted from a gas engine
and uh they used the same [pistons] and and cylinders and whatnot
but all they did was change the uh uh the [induction] [ports] and uh et cetera et cetera whatever needed to be changed over and although they were it seemed practical at the time they were nothing but a headache
and they did
finally did away with them
and went to a straight diesel
well now of course in california they they have much stricter codes than we have elsewhere
now could be that we could do the same thing that they're doing out in california
i don't know what it is [precisely]
but uh they're doing
they do something a little more stricter than we do
well i guess i've uh just i've listened a lot to the media
and i've tried to read some things on it
and i've tried to take some steps to uh understand it and figure out where i am in the whole mess
um apparently it's getting worse
i mean i can tell that just by driving in dallas you have the low flying gray cloud on certain days
but you know it really gets to you in terms of being able to breathe and and and things like that
so we know that if you do the same thing to like your plants and you don't let them breathe they kind of die
on you
um and so you know looking at the different areas that um cause air pollution um i guess we have industry for one um that has to be i guess a little bit more aware of you know the output and uh harmful chemicals and things that they use um what do you think about that
oh right
yeah
yeah
oh good
yeah
right
well that's true
i think you know we we had such
i mean i'm i'm close to forty
and i can remember the good old days when we didn't have to worry about all this stuff and life was pretty you know um complacent in these areas and uh i think you're right though that we not only pay the price in money we're going to pay the price in health and our you know in the future whatever's going to happen here
and you know it takes a few people you know on the alert to uh um really make a change and make a difference in the way people think
and you're right about the education it's just got to be little by little by little until people become aware
but i think we've got sort of a snowball effect going on now
and i think that you know in terms of air pollution we're um [pinpointing] certain you know industries in our own communities that are you know blatantly um abusing the [airspace]
and i think we're beginning to make them aware that um you know it's not just the a financial bottom line that they have to look at it's you know um
it has a a bigger impact on the on the whole environment and the whole area
and gosh
i i don't know
you know health seems to get in in the act too you know your your health and your lungs
and and all this
i mean this comes down to smokers
and i don't know what to do about smokers because you know that's sort of an infringement of they're rights see you can go overboard too
you can be real radical about this
and i'm not for that
i'm for [persuading] people by the use of education and by demonstration and by um you know your example of how things go um
and you know i know there's some real [radicals] out there and that that will tend to turn you off any time and think that they're you know full of baloney
and they're not you know on the right planet sometimes
but you know what i mean about that
i think it's education like you said that really needs to
and it starts with you
like you said just tell them to you know
why you're doing why you're collecting cans and why you're collecting glass and why you're recycling the stuff and gosh
oh
yeah
just as
yeah
well get it's yeah it's hard
it's really hard
and they have to maybe sort of like like hit bottom like they either have to die or they have to be you know totally incapacitated before they change their mind
and you know bless their hearts
you can't do anything that will impact them or or you you can't find a way really that it's it's it's almost like you know you can talk about [alcoholism] too
i mean you know in this hidden in this manner sometimes i think that it's just a person has to change their mind
and uh it's tough
but um you know it it
i don't allow people to smoke in my house and i i hope they respect that
and you know i i send them outside
sort of thing
and and they respect that or else they just don't come back
they don't smoke in my car
and you know
and it's not getting to be a big deal anymore
i you know they they seem to uh understand or at least have a little bit of respect for your wishes and they don't just necessarily light up and and uh you know not expect to get some flack these days
yeah
well yeah
uh_huh
use your own lungs don't borrow mine
can take part in your air yeah
well things are getting
i mean like i said i don't know why i know how old i am
and i know that i never had to worry about the stuff i thought you know the grass is green the sky was blue and the ocean was a pretty light blue you know and and i'm finding out that that's not always the case anymore
and that you know the damage has been done
and you know we're left with a mess in a lot of ways you know caused by um starting with the air pollution
and and that's just one of the factors that goes into you know trying to get this place cleaned up
but oh
gary indiana huh
which one oh really
really
yeah
oh i remember yeah
oh i'm from chicago
i grew up in chicago
so yeah
you know we had a lot of snow up there
oh absolutely
okay
well i i definitely think it's our the cars we drive
and i think you know everyone has good intentions
and and thinks well i should car pool
and i will
and but that we just have so many different interests and so many different things we have to do
it's it's a bother to have to pick somebody up and if you have a doctor's appointment or something
and they have to get another ride home or you have to arrange it's just a hassle
and i guess we're not willing to do that
but that to me is probably the thing that needs to be done or to start using public
dallas area
i live in plano
which is just a a suburb of of dallas
do you live in a major city
oh okay
no
well myself i i go to richardson which is a i teach school
and so i don't commute that far
it's only about four miles
but the majority of people that live in this area go into dallas to work and and when you're if you go out on the freeway and you look you see almost every car is just one passenger and our public transportation system's a joke
so people just don't bother to take that because it's inconvenient
we don't have any kind of a a train or uh you know anything like some of the big cities do
we're supposed to get one
but it's you know way off the in the future
but
no
it's just it
oh is that right
sure
how large is raleigh
so it's pretty big
yeah
uh_huh
and so you ride your bike to work and everything
or aren't you
well that's great
see that's that isn't even i mean i'm not sure that a even a percentage of of people in the dallas area ride bikes to work you know i just don't think they do
i never see anybody
um
another thing that that i think our my family's real conscious of is is is to stop using aerosol cans and you know uh you know get find another way instead of
you know
i know it really is
and we just need not to buy the stuff and those businesses will have to you know the corporations and so forth have to change
if you don't buy it
they're not going to make it
so
yeah
that is an easy one
but uh you know
and i notice probably a lot of uh commercial pollution
and and factory pollution in dallas you can see it
some days
it's really bad
yeah
it's awful
it's nothing like california where the smog is constant but it's still there
and you know it if we i think if we really realized how much we do breathe in
that's unhealthy we would immediately do something about it
but i don't think people realize how unhealthy the the air is
yeah
well i think i don't see i only teach english
and and uh but the science teacher i teach fifth grade
and we're [departmentalized] and the science teacher does a really big unit on it
and i think the kids are more informed than adults are
i mean
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
they do they do
and they and and i think that they are they care a little bit more
and i think as adults we need to care because it's the the future for our kids
and i you know i mean my kids are much more aware than i was at their age about things like that
and i think it's it's definitely has to be that
no
it really wasn't it wasn't a problem it
i mean i'm sure it was beginning to be a problem
but people were just weren't aware of it
like they are today
and i think that's where it has to start with the kids because it's going to be their world soon
and i think it and and we're real big on you know plano which is a small suburb of dallas
about a hundred thousand um
i think we're more than that about a hundred thirty thousand now
but um they're really trying their best to start recycling
and things like that that will
and we just we have separate garbage collections now for plastics and cans
and newspaper and which i think is i mean that's that should be just a way of life
for everybody
you shouldn't even complain about it
you should just do it
uh_huh
that's true
you're right
you're right
well you know it just has to be when you consider the landfills we we're not going to have any soon
and it's it's ridiculous
but the thing the [quandary] that i'm in is that that we had a great big article in in in the newspaper last week about i've been real big about going to to the store and asking for paper instead of plastic well
that was really controversial because some scientists you know feel like plastic
i mean paper is worse than plastic
it's just it's just a real um debate about which one is is the best
really the best thing to do is to bring
um you know a cloth bag yeah
do you
yeah
see that's what i do too
i forget
and and besides when i go to the store
i have a family you know i i get maybe ten twelve bags
of groceries and you know it would be a little a little expensive
although
you know i'm sure some
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yes
that's right
that's right
you're right
uh_huh
well you know
and they say that you know plastic is recyclable but not that many people use them
again you know
yeah
that's true
sure
sure
i think that you know i think that it's tremendous the research they're doing on all of this
because i think we need to to know and be more aware of it
so we can do some changing
but the majority of people are so lazy about it
that they're not willing to to sacrifice a little to to make the world a better place
and it's kind of sad because especially if you have children
and because you know you want your kids and their kids to to be able to be a part of a
yeah
a world that's halfway decent
and you know just in my lifetime i've seen such a change in the environment and it's scary because by the time my kids have kids and they're growing up
it's going to be a completely different world
you know
and it's it's scary
so you know like i i know that i need to car pool
and i don't
and uh and i you rationalize and say well i only am four miles away
and that it's no big deal
and
well you know
but
yeah
right
right
well you know just
yeah
just with with our thing in plano
it had recycling garbage it hasn't it hasn't been that long
and it was just uh really an easy adjustment for most people
but there was a small percentage that [griped] and complained and wrote you know letters to the editor and you know like it was some real
great big deal inconvenience and but it seems to me you should just be able to give up a little bit to make the world better
but some people don't think that
so
and some people don't
and some people i think really believe
and maybe they're [rationalizing] but they really believe that everybody's making a bigger deal out of the problem than it is
and that and that it's right no way it's it's there and we've got to face it
that's right
i think in some cases they aren't
and i see
i wonder i wonder how much the laws that congress passed several years ago are really enforced
as far as big companies and
oh i think so too
and i think that they're not fined the way they should be
or they're
they pay them off or whatever
so they can get away with it
i i was born in ohio
and when um when i was young
we we did a lot of fishing and on lake erie
and i i mean when i went back
i just couldn't believe the difference
it's just terrible the way it's polluted because of of big corporations that dump and you know
and you just feel so bad because at one time
it was a wonderful beautiful lake
and now it's a mess
yeah
i when i was little
my dad had a boat
and we would go fishing on lake erie
and it was beautiful
and it's not beautiful anymore
that's interesting
i hadn't seen that
i know there was a lot of talk about freon contributing to the the uh hole in the ozone layer and other various pollution
but uh other than uh making the air conditioning systems tighter i didn't know that there was any work on uh alternate [coolants] uh_huh
the uh the the times that i've seen any sort of of loss is uh at a time when maybe i'd have uh the the uh freon checked in the air conditioner or maybe [topped] off and it seemed to me that they'd practically waste almost as much as uh they'd put in the car
but i've
noticed in the past few years that
uh the controls on that are tighter
uh people are a lot more concerned about that
well obviously cars
uh and trucks contribute quite a bit and personally i'll uh
i carpool uh most of the time with someone
i work with
but my schedule doesn't uh doesn't make for a consistent carpool
uh_huh
that's a that's a good question
uh the leaded fuels have obviously been out of the automotive industry for quite some time and there's always talk about uh about regulating the emissions that a a car engine can produce and [tightening] down on that
and of course the uh the large auto makers in this country spend [untold] millions to lobby to keep business just the same as usual
there's a big issue in rhode island right now uh there's a company that wants to build a coal fired uh energy plant very close to to downtown [providence] and they are pulling all sorts of tricks to maneuver around various controls and inspections and regulations apparently the the
well we have the the usual automotive pollution
although it's not very visible you don't worry about that uh too much uh but uh we have a lot of wood smoke here now i heat with wood
so uh i'm one of the [polluters] if you think that wood smoke is a is a source of pollution
but there are people in this community who who think that uh it's gone beyond the part of being part of the charm of the community to the point of being part of the pollution and and uh we're very close to the uh grand canyon
where the air pollution is a very big issue because uh of pollution
well it's debatable as to whether it's coming from the los angeles area on the jet stream or whether it's coming from the four corners power plant up near page arizona
uh but because it's a national park
that's a a big issue there uh here in [flagstaff] actually uh it it's something that's unique to us
the the biggest [pollutant] that we have in our air is cinder dust
and that's because uh we're in a [volcanic] region
and we uh we have dirt roads uh in a lot of areas that are covered with [cinders] but they also use [cinders] on the highways in the winter time in place of uh using salt or substances like that that they might in the eastern part of the country
and when the snow goes away
and it dries up and the cars drive over it
we get a lot of cinder dust kicked up into the air and as of you know the the largest quantity that's the biggest pollutants that we have to to deal with here
yeah
huh
right
does does dallas sit in any kind of uh uh i've been there
but i don't remember if you sit in any kind of a trough that uh where you get temperature inversions that that capture air pollutants or anything like that
sure
i laugh because i made the journey once from el paso to dallas
and then continuing east uh to the eastern coast of the united states and uh i [joked] that uh all of the [settlers] settled in eastern texas where the green rolling hills are
and and when they finally beat the mexicans the mexicans said fine
you can have east texas
but as only as long as you take west texas too
yep
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
it
yes
here in [flagstaff] uh [juniper] is the the very [distinctive] smelling wood that you can smell in the wood smoke
uh and one of the issues here uh which gets into forest management
but has an impact on on air pollution is that uh we're surrounded by the largest stand of ponderosa pine in the world
but people don't want to burn ponderosa pine they want to burn oak which is very hard to find in this region
or
[juniper] because it's the more [plentiful] hardwood and uh aspen uh it burns very [cleanly] but doesn't put out a lot of heat
uh and ponderosa we also have [pinon] but uh uh it like ponderosa is very dirty
and so they're not [preferable] woods and so here we have this great abundance of ponderosa pine and the forest service is saying we really wish that we could find a way to make it uh less of a
how's the quality of air in portland
really
uh_huh
uh_huh
quite a bit of ozone and a lot of smog
yeah
oh yeah
i've heard that los angeles is horrible
and denver is i hear it's really bad
atlanta atlanta is moderately bad uh you know we have we have a big problem with ozone uh
and you know it's generally uh you know it's just just quite often you know be a very [hazy] sort of day you know because there will just be this pollution hanging in the air uh i think a lot
i think most of our problems
cause by automobile emissions it's you know a very mobile city
uh_huh
uh_huh
heavy industry yeah
i think the industry has been you know relatively good about uh you know having regulations at least in the last twenty years or so about industry pollution
but it's just seem that i think i think we really suffer because you know we don't have any sort of an organized mass transit system any sort of you know like high speed rail or even even you know decent regular passenger rail across the country uh it seems it seems like like there there's a lot more federal subsidies for automobile you know through the construction of highways for automobiles
um
i know a little bit of chemistry uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
until it gets to the air just can't can't support them in the quality life
they want
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh they they do have automobile emissions tests
but uh it's there's some sort of rule i don't have a car
so i don't know the actual specifics
but it's like your car is it's a if the model year of your car is more than twenty years old
you don't have to have it inspected any more
you know which which is just kind of ludicrous you know because it
they're the ones that you would expect to
you know be the hardest be the biggest [polluters] yeah
that's true
i essentially live downtown
and i go to school at georgia tech which is pretty much located in the heart of downtown within a mile from the heart of downtown
it's i don't think it's really announced you know in the sense that the way the way it is in california
but uh
okay
what do you feel is contributing most to air pollution
cars you think so
uh_huh
yeah
i i would have figured that some of the factories may be contributing as much as as uh automobiles
uh_huh
uh_huh
well if you only have to get your car in inspected once a year you can just have it fixed real quick right before the inspection
and and a lot of when you a lot of places when you go get the inspection they just pull it out of the garage and then pull it back in
and they don't really check anything
they just make sure the lights work basically
have they
uh_huh
oh gosh
yeah
that will help
less people drive and more you know more people riding in one car rather than everybody riding to work by themselves would help a little bit
and if if everyone car [pooled] that would cut it down in half
uh_huh
yeah
well uh in uh san antonio the parking downtown
i work downtown
and the parking is so dad gum expensive you basically have to car pool to be able to afford to park it costs seventy five dollars a month
just to park my car
so i ride with two other uh girls
so that way it will only costs me twenty five dollars a month to park
but it's just crazy
and it's from what i understand
i know a girl in washington d c
and it costs her a couple of hundred dollars a month to park her car
yeah
and from what i understand new york city is worse that it just costs a fortune to own a car in new york city
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh once you're in downtown san antonio it's real easy to get around they have a they have these uh buses that that look like little street cars
and they go all around that it's just real easy to get around once you're downtown the problem is getting downtown
and they have some uh park and ride uh [expresses] where you go to the the bus stop and you get on the bus
and it takes you directly downtown
but they don't have enough of them
and they're not convenient enough
and there just happens to not be one convenient to where i live
so
if if there were i would ride the bus
uh no
not really
um
i noticed once flying into d f w there was just a a [brownish] orange haze over the city
it was the ugliest thing i had ever seen
yeah
this is a nice time of the year though when it's so windy
it just seems everything is so fresh
yeah
um
yeah
yeah
i guess so
i think it's five
and i think we have
it was nice talking to you
so what do you think about it
um for the worst i would assume
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
you're probably lucky to see the end of the [runway] by now
um
well i'll tell you i don't know
i i don't know whether i i i count the stink as part of air pollution
and it stinks down here
it depends on where you are now if you're over
yeah
if if you're over by [asheville] you're pretty good
because you're up there in the mountains and you've got some nice ozone and all that over here in raleigh
it's kind of flat and stagnant and just yucky
it's fine over on the coast
because you've got the you've got the breezes off the off the water there
but uh seems like it's just dull and [uninspiring] here
no
i don't know
they're they keep doing things and it doesn't seem to be doing any good
i was i was really amazed because i never would have expected you know this problem somewhere like in atlanta
and i drove through atlanta uh couple of weeks ago
and it was unseasonably warm
and you could see the smog just sitting on top of the city
and when i drove through i it it was terrible
i i had to keep the windows up
it was just so thick and uh heavy uh i couldn't believe it
i because i i used to live in atlanta years ago
and it was always fairly clean
i mean you always you didn't have a problem with stagnant air like like l a
does
but boy it was really bad that day
yeah
yeah
right
but you see all these all these trucks [belching] out this black smoke
yeah
i know it's i i i don't understand where the priority is
it's uh like in atlanta they have um they have mandatory catalytic converter inspections there's only three places in georgia
that requires that
and uh even with that it hasn't done any good
i mean obviously it's gotten a lot worse
but you know just like you say you go through there
and you watch all these trucks and they're just coughing out all kinds of stuff
some of them spitting it out
so thick you can't even see past it
you know i don't know
uh_huh
yeah
because of the stuff settles on it
yeah
yeah
i don't know things like you know
well like acid rain and all these sulphur [dioxides] being dumped out there
it's just like a big [avalanche] you know you start putting sulphur dioxide in the atmosphere and you end up with acid rain acid rain kills the trees trees don't scrub the air and there you are
and then of course you've got all these folks cutting down on the rain forest as quick as they can
i wonder too you know they keep talking about ozone [depletion] and all this
it it seems funny that it's coming around at the time when we're losing the most most of the forests because i i i think that a lot of the pollutants and stuff are being taken out of the air uh you know by the plants and the trees and all that good stuff
and here we are losing it
and now the
now it doesn't have any where to go
but uh_huh
yeah
well it's like our winter here
i mean it was the winter that wasn't you know we were having having hot days in december and january and got in
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
you you might as well sell it for scrap or something because you probably never will use it it's a shame too because i miss all the cold weather
i i enjoy winter
yeah
yeah
it was an interesting day
the other day uh i think it was um yeah
it was last not not this past friday
but friday a week ago we i don't know
i think you had some bad weather up there too
we had tornadoes and everything down here
um that was the most historic weather day in recorded history for severe weather in the country on that one day
i mean you know of course you always have severe weather somewhere
but there was more of it on that one day than ever recorded before over four hundred reports of tornadoes hail and heavy winds amazing
it's a little bit scary
yeah
um i read an article a couple weeks ago they were talking about uh talking again about the ozone layer they said that uh the ozone deteriorate is greater than they had originally thought over some of the major metropolitan areas
that's a little bit scary to think about
because that's certainly not going to improve things around there
yeah
well that's that's yeah
that had that had been the thing that had always i mean i i i have always thought about the ozone layer as sort of like a layer and it would move around
i'm not that much of a [meteorologist] but uh yeah
i was a little surprised at that too because up to that point all i'd heard about was the one over the pole
and i said well i'm not too awfully concerned about that
if it's going to start melting the ice cap it's not going to be for a long time yet
but opening opening up over major metropolitan areas now that's uh that's
yeah
yeah
yeah
course the ozone is up there
so
yeah
i i mean i don't even know i don't even know if the ozone layer does move
i mean apparently it doesn't
but of course it it might be just a couple of scientists trying to get their name in the paper sort of like cold fusion yeah
i'll tell you i i was real excited when i first heard that
i said hot dog they finally did it you know
i mean i'm
yeah
i mean i'm an old science fiction buff from way back when i was a little boy
and this is the kind of stuff that science fiction was made out of
and it's the days that i keep looking for that aren't going to happen in my lifetime
but you know we're supposed to have moon colonies by now
but uh yeah cold fusion would have been great could have gone might have started making a little [inroads] on air pollution with that
but who knows
yeah
yeah
there's there's always a drawback to everything i mean i don't know
well
okay
i pushed it
so what do you think um we can do to uh prevent air pollution
yeah
well you know what i was talking to my brother in denver
and he told me that they have restrictions on when they can burn their fireplace
yeah
i couldn't
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i just couldn't figure out how could they could restrict uh you know like a fireplace
because a lot of places that's all all the heat they have in
their home you know
well i know
yeah
isn't that terrible
well i don't know all i know is that we have to have our car our car [smogged] every two years you know
and uh
uh_huh
well you think that they would be able to do that you know
i think they could too you know
they just they don't want to they want to use uh you know something that's going to burn all this gas
so we can buy more gas
you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i don't know about that either
but uh i know i took a ride down southern california just recently
and it was just amazing to look you know like being up higher and looking down and seeing all this crud you know
it's oh it's terrible
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it does it burns your eyes and everything
but a lot of these trucks that's on the road now to i think they could do something to those because some of those trucks just smoke like heck you know
but it doesn't seem like no one ever does anything about that
uh_huh
no
the electric cars i think that was a good idea
i would really go for that
yeah
right
right
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well uh we have a fireplace here to i don't burn it every night usually
i just have mine on the weekends or when i have company that we're going to be in the house all day you know
and it's just nice to sit in the living room with a fireplace going
but uh other than that i don't use mine
yeah
right
right
yeah
i know i think it's going to have to be these large companies and
hi [cynthia]  
what did you wear to work today  
so can you dress pretty casually  
yeah  
well i um run a business out of my home  
so i tend to get up in the morning put on   sweats um   do whatever i want to do with the kids then whenever i have a meeting with a client i'll put a suit on   and then come home and get back into regular clothes again  
yeah  
i've recently um tried to update my wardrobe trying to put suits together that i can [interchange] the   jackets and the blouses and all that a lot  
that's helped me a lot with having  
i can only have a a limited wardrobe since i'm only   working part time right now  
um but still it gives it some variety   add different blouses and [scarves] and belts and things like that  
what about your casual wear  
do you like to wear jeans most of the time  
yeah  
it's nice you can wear shorts especially on a day like today when it's so hot  
dress shorts  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it'll be comfortable  
i guess down here uh  
we just recently moved to texas  
so my wardrobe has changed quite a bit  
um we moved from colorado where  
and i have a closet full of sweaters  
that  
you live in virginia now  
oh that's interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'd like to be able to wear those here  
today it's eighty eight degrees  
so  
needless to say my sweaters have been hung in the closet for quite a while now  
today was uh definitely a shorts day around here  
this is pretty [unseasonal]  
but uh at least we  
you know it it it feels good  
it gets uh  
everybody doesn't have cabin fever today  
it's nice to get   out and about  
okay  
sounds good  
it was nice talking to you  
bye bye  
um let's see  
what did i wear to work today  
um actually i wore [corduroy] shorts with a white blouse um and flat shoes  
um on occasion   on occasion  
um i do vary  
um you know i wear suits  
i wear skirts and sweaters  
on occasion i can wear jeans  
um how about you  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um you know there's real no no real dress code where i work  
um you see people wearing you know all different attire  
i um don't like to wear heels that really tires me out  
i work in a big building  
so i predominantly wear flat shoes  
um you know in the winter i wear sweaters  
in summer i you know i like one piece dresses short [sleeves] things like that  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
[accessories]  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
mostly  
i mean at home i predominantly wear [sweatpants] and things like that   also  
yeah  
well they're um you know they're like  
yeah  
they're like black [corduroy] bermuda shorts  
and sometimes i wear a blazer with them  
and i get really a lot of [compliments] on them  
um where i work is predominantly male  
so you know they  
their attire is always the same you know suits or slacks   you know jeans whatever  
and um but i'm really the only woman i guess at work that does that  
but seems to work for me  
in fact i just bought i i just got a new outfit as a gift that um  
it's one of those [skorts]  
you know  
it's shorts but it looks like a skirt  
so i think that'll be good for work too  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well see i live in virginia  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so i'm  
you know like right now today was in about you know the fifties  
but um you know i i do wear a lot of sweaters and things like sweater dresses  
oh my  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we're still pretty much you know in winter as far as that goes here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i guess we've discussed everything there is about clothing  
okay  
okay  
it was nice talking to you also  
bye bye  
okay um  
i don't know about you  
but where i am we have a like an extremely lax dress policy at work  
and it varies like every day i mean from jeans one day to business suits the next  
it's pretty bad  
but it's true you know  
they tend to try to be you know real lax  
and supposedly the policy is like you know we you know we hire these wonderful creative people  
and we don't want to [smush] their creativity you know  
we want to go ahead and let them do what ever they want  
and you know you really will see people in in jeans one day and business suits the next  
yeah  
yeah  
you know we're kind of that way too  
i try to  
i'm the same way you are  
i kind of try to judge from day to day  
i know you know where i am we work a lot with the customers  
and we have a lot of government folks come in all the time  
and   and you know if i know that they're going to be there you know you i try to really watch it and like you say you know really dress up  
and if i know they're not you know  
i i've been doing a lot of [reorganization] you know the last couple of months the same way you are you know  
and it's just it's just impossible to crawl down on the floor and dig through boxes in a dress  
it is  
and so  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
oh no  
oh how awful  
it sounds like mister power hungry  
you know just yesterday though i saw a girl in the spine out here at lewisville that had on a pair of shorts  
and i don't care  
you can call them split skirts  
and you can call them [culottes] all you want  
but these were shorts  
that's all they were  
i don't care what else you call them you know  
if they're below the knee okay  
maybe you can call them split skirts  
if they're above the knee they turn into shorts you know  
and these weren't even really full ones  
i mean they had a problem out here with it last summer wearing these shorts that were you know the real wide full ones you know  
and these weren't even those  
these were like pretty short black  
and they were very dressy  
the were black [velvet] shorts  
and she had on black hose and black heels  
and she looked very very nice  
but you don't wear shorts to work  
you know i mean as far as i'm considered she was in violation  
and nobody says anything to them  
it's always been a big problem in lewisville in the summertime  
you know if they just you know  
the management doesn't ever seem to want to take an cut off you know that no  
this is wear we're going to draw the line  
this is shorts you know  
and and nobody will ever kind of take control and do that you know  
so it always gets annoying because the rest of us are going well god we have a pair of those at home too  
it sure would be cool and comfortable to wear you know  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
and then during the week you see these women in the you know  
just because you put on a pair of hose with them doesn't make them not shorts anymore you know  
i mean i've never seen them do it without hose  
i mean they always have hose on  
but still it's they're shorts  
i don't care what you say  
they're shorts  
well i think t i's dress code is pretty lax considering everything anyway you know uh  
oh do they really  
oh my god  
i i couldn't afford to work there  
oh no  
uh_huh  
t i says no shorts and no [halters]  
i know that's it  
wow  
i don't know that that would be a good environment to work in  
i mean i see  
i i am more  
i don't know about anybody else  
and a lot of bosses may say i'm nuts  
but i am more productive when i'm in pants  
i i am  
i work faster  
i get things done faster than when i'm in a dress and heels you know  
i  
and it's weird  
but i it's i do i can i can get so much more done if i'm dressed comfortable you know  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you can't do that in a skirt poor soul  
oh yuck  
yeah  
that's terrible  
that's terrible  
gosh  
well i don't know  
i just figure you know yeah  
sometimes i worry about you know if i go in in pants  
and i never i never ever ever ever go in in a pair of jeans you know  
but i'll go in in pants  
i mean today i had on a pair of you know navy blue dress slacks and and uh like a peach colored top and you know not [cruddy] but not a dress either  
and sometimes i wonder if stuff like that would will hold you back you know if you don't dress in you know your dress for success business suits everyday if you know if upper management doesn't notice that and remember that later on  
but you know i don't know if they do or not  
you know i see a lot of the managers  
and they're in jeans  
so you know  
really wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
isn't that funny  
that's great  
yeah  
that's the way to do it i mean that's the smart way to do it  
it really is because your making you know  
if when they're meeting with the engineers who they know are going to be dressed down if they come in in you know a six hundred dollar three piece suit it's going to make the people they're meeting with feel very uncomfortable you know  
or it would me you know  
yeah  
yeah  
look at this slick guy  
i wonder what kind of money does he make  
uh_huh  
i can see it now  
well it was good to talk to you  
it was really enjoyable  
it really is  
oh yuck  
yeah  
well it's kind of enjoyable  
i'm really looking forward to it  
well thanks a lot  
bye bye  
well i'm kind of that way too  
i work in the legal department  
and where we are now what we're doing is some very big lawsuits that happen to have a heck of a lot of boxes of documents  
and i get to [toting] around boxes of documents several times a day  
it always seems like i'm doing that  
and i can't see getting dressed up and wearing heels and stuff when you have to carry you know boxes of documents around  
so if i'm just going to be there working in the litigation center and doing you know odds and ends and stuff with the boxes of documents i dress down  
but if we're going to have a meeting where we're having the attorneys come in or people from uh other [party's] attorneys and stuff then i normally dress up  
yeah  
and i'll wear a dress and hose and stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
as a matter of fact i thought i had one funny story  
when uh i was at t i the first year or so we were sent out to our record retention facility to look through two thousand boxes  
we had them in the warehouse  
and at that point it the warehouse was over across the road  
and it wasn't air conditioned  
and it we were there like in the middle of the summer  
it's [unair] conditioned  
it was dusty and dirty uh  
there was like a fan at the very end of the row  
and that was it  
and so we didn't really know we weren't supposed to  
we thought t i dress code was just dress appropriate to your job  
we wore shorts  
we didn't know that was a big no no  
and the supervisor from another area came up to us  
and you know this area where record retention is there's only a few people that work there  
and he he knew who worked there  
he should have realized that we weren't [regulars] in the warehouse there  
and he came up to us  
and he just said who's your supervisor  
well he called our supervisor and our supervisor and our [supervisor's] supervisor  
and it went up all the way to the head of facilities   complaining that we were wearing shorts  
he didn't at at least say to us did you know you're not supposed to do that  
that could have [alleviated] a big problem  
we ended up getting called out on it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
yeah  
um  
well i've seen some people try to just come in like over the weekend because they want to use the [texteller] machine  
and they have said no  
yeah  
i know i didn't know that e d s has a very strict dress code  
i had a friend  
oh definitely  
i had a friend who worked there for a year or so  
and they spell it out  
for men it's particular suits uh the pin [stripe] and the particular colors of shirts and wing tipped shoes  
oh it is definitely lined out  
women are not allowed to wear slacks  
you wear coordinated suits  
and and a particular kind of shoe you know so high heel  
oh it is spelled out  
when i was looking at her materials when she first started you know she had her benefits package and all that kind of stuff  
and it told about the dress code  
and it said these are the color pastel shirts you may wear or white shirts with this kind of [stripe] in it for the men and this kind of shoe and hair just this way  
yeah  
and e d s is very particular about this hair cuts  
i mean it was like you can't have you know such and such [facial] hair no [beards] you know and just really detailed  
well the the time we were there at the warehouse we felt really bad because we had uh another person coming from washington our outside counsel  
and she was told that we were going to be in a warehouse  
but she really didn't get the idea that we were in the warehouse part of the warehouse not the office to the warehouse but the warehouse  
and she came with skirts just like she'd be going into the office  
and we'd try we'd try to say didn't you bring any pants or anything  
we're we're out here in the warehouse you know  
you you got your skid of you know that wooden [pallet] of boxes  
and you're going to have unload you skid look at the documents in the in the boxes and then [repack] your skid  
and she   and she was so she was so hot and miserable you know in the skirt  
she finally tried to go buy you know a pair of pants  
but you know i mean it was just completely miserable for her  
some of our people in the legal department  
we have um assistants to the general counsel  
and it's funny  
because there's one that always wears a suit  
a matter of fact he's never seen without his jacket to the suit on [buttoned]  
and then there's another one who's who's a little younger and a little more [yuppish]  
and he's always kind of like in the [khaki] pants and you know a shirt  
and sometimes he wears the jacket to it  
and some of the [patent] attorneys have been real casual in their clothes  
and then other ones tend to always wear a suit with a very [starched] cotton shirt  
so that's just  
with the you know the little [suspenders] or something on  
so   we've we've kind of had a variety there  
but i think a lot of times it's it's mainly who they're going to meet with  
or they're meeting with people that they know is going to be dressed that way then that's how they are  
if there just going to be meeting with t i like to talk about a [patent] kind of thing and the they're engineers that they're talking too they dress kind of like how the engineers are dressed  
and they're usually casual  
yeah  
it's one of those [slippery] attorneys coming in here  
yeah  
this is this is kind of a fun project  
i've done some of the other speech programs  
but we've never got to talk to another person  
it was always just talking to the computer  
so this is a little different  
yeah  
okay  
bye  
well uh i am basically retired now  
i was a member  
i was in education and in administration  
so basically i wore dresses   and uh heels  
and i was never one uh because my work often took me into court uh never was one that got uh accustomed to wearing pants suits and pants to work  
but that was just me  
i know many people are very comfortable in the classroom and what have you wearing pants  
uh it  
i guess i was just old enough not to uh be very comfortable in it  
how about you  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
and i think that does make a difference  
because when you do have to be in front of people   uh i think you the the tendency there is to wear dresses and suits and and uh more classical style of clothing  
what about the mini skirt  

uh_huh  
well there are mini skirts and there are mini skirts  
there are some that are really short  
and then there are some that may be will come like four inches or five inches above the knee  
and again it depends upon the size the shape of the person   as well as the shape of the person's legs  
now i also uh  
even though i retired from education i uh i do modeling  
and i teach at a modeling agency here  
and uh so when we are doing [wardrobing] and we have uh two two hour classes in wardrobe we do discuss a great deal the mini skirt and the types of clothes to wear on the job  
uh even though i may have them from sixth grade on up through uh grandmothers   in my class  
and uh i always try to emphasize the clothes that you wear should not necessarily be the greatest fad  
because maybe they those are not the clothes that are the most uh appealing to you or the most uh [complimentary] to you  
but uh the mini skirt many times will [evoke] comments you don't really want  
and and then uh then you're in the situation where you're very unhappy  
that's right  
well i i uh i have to uh agree with that even when they was very very popular in the early sixties  
uh i uh uh  
again maybe because i was at the school there were still many teachers who wore mini skirts  
uh we had no regulation against it  
and a lot of the kids did of course  
and it could be very embarrassing for the men teachers  
because they were not that careful in how they handled themselves in those mini skirts  
and so i think uh uh of course now i go the other extreme i do not like to see in the corporate areas uh all the women dressed like men   with the suits and uh white shirts and ties and what have you so that they all look exactly the same  
uh i don't like that  
i don't  
i think there should be individuality in dressing  
yes  
right  
well i and i don't think that you have to be [manish] and extremely tailored to to look professional  
i think that you you make of that what you wish  
and you can go the opposite direction and uh over do all the frills and [laces] and [flounces] and what have you which don't belong in the in at least in my opinion in the work place  
uh but that that  
you can have a classical look without a lot of a great deal of [adornment] and what have you and still be very feminine  
because that was one thing i always fought against  
i started out as a physical education teacher  
so i was always fighting against the idea of looking tailored or [manish]  
uh and people would never ever guess that i was [phys] ed  
and um and that pleased me  
uh and so then i of course just continued what i considered the best style of clothing for me at work  
and uh and i find even even at home here now i i will wear blue jeans or i'll wear shorts and what have you uh and be very comfortable  
but when i go out somewhere then uh unless i have a pair of dress slacks i don't usually wear a lot of blue jeans  
i have difficulty getting them to fit me comfortably any how  
and so uh uh i just feel that uh you know each person has to dress to their own liking and for their own comfort  
but uh there are certain norms that companies should be able to uh put out as guidelines for their employees  
right  
yes  
yes  
that's good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i don't either  
fortunately i don't have to work in those companies  
but uh i i uh did have a group come over from one of the banks over the children's hospital where i was volunteering  
and uh they were doing a presentation  
and every one of the young [execs] coming up were dressed exactly a like men and women  
they all had on the gray jackets and the gray [trousers] or or skirts and the white blouses and the same color tie  
i mean you could hardly tell the women from the men except for the lengths of the pants   and one was a skirt and one was a pant  
and uh and i think that's sad because that doesn't allow for any individuality  
that's uh can [stifle] creativity  
so  
i guess so  
well it's been nice talking with you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
what do you usually wear to work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i work at t i  
and they don't really have uh dress code so to speak there  
it's pretty lax about um you know  
you can pretty much wear whatever you want to  
and i wear anything from jeans when i'm feeling really casual to uh suits and dresses when i'm meeting with a customer  
or i i teach training classes   and so when i'm teaching a class obviously i wear a suit or dress  
so   it it uh definitely [fluctuates] mainly with what i'm going to be doing that day and kind of what my mood is  
and when it's raining   i'm more likely to wear jeans  
and and when it's really cold i'm more likely to wear jeans or pants or sweaters or that type of thing  
um but it just really depends on the weather and my mood  
and then you know obviously when i'm doing anything that i'm in front of people or or making presentations teaching whatever   i'm going to dress up more  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there are a few people every now and then that wear those to work  
there pretty strict about that though  
um i've never worn  
i just wouldn't  
i mean even to  
well jeans aren't exactly professional  
but for some reason a mini skirt is to me a little more [unprofessional] to wear to work than jeans  
just because it's maybe it's just because of the [sexist] views and everything  
but you just feel like you're you're being showing too much  
i don't know  
i wouldn't want to wear a mini skirt to work  
i have seen a few people do it though  
but they they weren't overly  
and they weren't overly [revealing]  
they were pretty much in good taste  
but um  
for me i just i just wouldn't want to do that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's what i've seen  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
well i feel like too on the job when you know there's men around and some of the managers are men you just you know you don't want them looking at your legs necessarily  
and uh to me i just wouldn't feel comfortable in that at work  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
even with the very tailored look of a suit sometimes i like to have a just a little something that's feminine  
not you know  
you don't want to over do it but just a little a touch of it just to say yes i am a woman  
but i can be professional too  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that's what i one thing i like about t i is that they aren't overly strict about what you wear  
and they don't you know your boss doesn't come up to you and say now remember tomorrow you have a meeting so you'd better wear a suit  
i mean they they leave it up to you and your judgment to   to use good judgment and dress [tastefully] and dress for whatever occasion you may have  
the only real restrictions they have are uh no [halter] tops and no shorts even the long walking short of the [squirts] the the split skirts   anything that that could be considered shorts they don't allow  
and they don't allow uh any sweat any sweat shirts or t shirts that might have [vulgar] or you know anything like that on it  
but   other than that it's pretty pretty lax  
and i think that's good because it does allow people to be individual  
and it allows you to kind of dress the way you feel that day  
or you know if you want to be comfortable and casual you can  
and sometimes i think you may be more productive if you're comfortable with what your wearing and can be be feel more relaxed   whereas uh sometimes when your in the suit and feel kind of almost stiff and you're not you know maybe you don't uh can't get as comfortable to sit down  
and you know like when i'm writing training material i prefer to be more comfortable unless i know i have to meet with a customer later during the day  
so that's i think that is good that they're like that  
i do know there's a lot of companies that are very strict about what the employees wear  
and they must wear blue or gray or black and a white shirt and   you know no variation  
and i don't i don't quite agree with that  
right  
uh right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
i agree  
well it  
i guess we've talked probably long enough  
nice talking to you too  
i enjoyed it  
bye bye  
okay uh  
i was just trying to think about how i how i dress for work you know  
t i is a very casual atmosphere  
and uh what i usually do on the weekend is is lay out five outfits  
and uh on monday i i wear the the worst looking one   because it doesn't seem like people are really you know are that alive on monday you know  
so  
and then [progressively] through the week i'll i'll wear nicer looking things  
and then on friday most everybody wears jeans jeans and sweatshirts or you know jeans and blouses or something like that  
uh but mostly what i wear are skirts and blouses or you know skirts and uh pullover sweaters or uh you know little two piece dress suit suits like  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
like where i work it's it's pretty casual uh  
it's it's i guess it's more like a a college campus  
also i mean there's you know hundreds of people work for t i  
and uh a lot of people just just wear jeans and and uh sweats all the time  
and they dress up like when customers are coming in   or uh when we have department meetings or something like that  
and uh you know a lot of people like those that work in the legal department for their the real uh higher ups   like the the the t i lawyers and uh those that work for the the higher executives those secretaries they uh they really dress up all the time  
so there's a good combination in the hallways all the time you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and that's very acceptable at t i  
i believe at i b m they they make you wear a blue suit and uh some kind of colored shirt and a tie  
uh_huh  
i i would hate to be in that atmosphere  
uh_huh  
oh  
i see  
yeah  
oh t i is everywhere  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's a good idea  
uh_huh  
the  
no  
right  
yeah  
and if you happen to go into one of areas that is a smoke smoke area and you don't smoke you almost [strangle]  
so much smoke in the air  
yeah  
areas the smoking area you know it's closed in  
and if you if you don't smoke and you go in there  
everybody that goes in there smokes  
so it's full of smoke when when you go in there  
i used to smoke a long time ago  
i used to burn my clothes talking about getting back to clothes  
i used to burn my clothes with cigarettes  
that's one of the reason that i stopped  
yeah  
she always had uh yeah she always had to have a lot of clothes  
no  
i i wasn't either  
she my daughter she's real good at finding sales though you know  
she'll buy a lot of   yeah she'll buy a lot clothes at the end of seasons you know   and uh just have them for the next year  
and she you know she finds all the outlets and all the discount places and uh buys clothes  
uh you know when they were coming up i i didn't sew  
but now i've i've learned how to sew  
so i'm well i'm i'm still learning how  
but i'm and i'm getting much better at it  
and i   i'm going to be able to make my own clothes  
right  
right  
because clothes are are really expensive   you know  
uh uh a little simple shell shell blouse you know that you can make for about say ten dollars at you know at at the most out of a decent fabric   boy runs you like twenty something dollars in the store  
just a little shell to go under a suit you know  
uh_huh  
right  
especially to pay that kind of money for it  
i have a friend who uh  
she had a she had a a little boy  
and uh she used to dress him out of [neiman] [marcus]  
i mean   she dressed him uh [fabulously]  
and then seems like every time she turned around he was [outgrowing] stuff  
and she finally learned that you just can not do this you know  
so now she finds the basement sales and just like you know everybody else  
right  
yes  
and you  
right  
and yeah  
and you just have to keep buying them you know  
if you if you if you're not buying the most expensive clothes out there the the quality is really not that great you know for the price that you pay  
right  
right  
like i bought i bought the most beautiful uh sweater from uh i believe it was ross dress for less  
and it it was really pretty  
it was just you know it was just plain a plain uh you know round uh [necked] uh sweater  
and it had like it was [embellished] around the the top you know  
it had uh leather leather designs and um some other other little things on it  
and i just thought it was so pretty  
and i i got it at a real good price  
i think maybe it was nine ninety nine or something  
and it was so pretty  
and after i wore it a couple of times i realized why why it was   it was so cheap  
there was in the middle of the back of it there was  
it's like there  
it had been [slit]  
and they had like just sewed it back together   right in the middle of the back you know  
wasn't a seam or anything you know  
and that's why it was so cheap although it's not it's not really noticeable uh from the outside  
but   but still it's you know it's really not not not a good quality  
and then i was told by somebody that works for j c penney's that uh ross ross is just one of those places that sell sells seconds  
yeah  
yeah  
um they don't really buy the first quality  
they buy the second  
and uh places like j c penney's that they'll reject the seconds  
they'll send them back every time  
but places like ross dress for less and uh t j max  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah uh  
you know that's a good way to approach it  
i've never thought about um  
i do plan my clothes a week in advance  
actually i plan them a month in advance  
i usually do a month at a time  
so i don't repeat an outfit  
but um i've never thought about wearing your worst outfit on monday because really no one's paying attention  
but anyway um i really i don't work outside of school  
um i work in the computer lab at school  
so i can just wear whatever i have on for school  
an and um and really it's  
i try to dress [presentable] but very comfortable  
like um in the warm weather it's always shorts and a t shirt or a button up or something like that  
and then in the winter time it's jeans or or pants  
i usually uh you know  
college is so casual  
you really don't want to dress up unless you you uh have a job  
and you have to be there right after school or something like that  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
well that's good that they're so casual  
i mean uh my brother works for t i  
and he's a computer programmer or computer engineer  
and uh you know whenever he was going to school he was expecting to having to wear uh a tie or a dress shirt everyday  
but uh he goes to work in his blue jeans t shirt   and tennis shoes  
and he just loves it  
yeah  
that's what i've heard  
but uh i mean they they just moved into the new building  
he calls it the new building  
i don't know  
it's where all the executives are  
and um and so they were they were going to try to take their blue jean code with them and trying to get all the all the upper level to start wearing blue jeans  
but he just left for italy today at four  
and he'll be over there until july first setting up some kind of computers for them  
over in t i mean for t i but over in italy  
oh yeah  
he was so excited about going  
but uh he didn't carry any ties or anything because he he just went over there with the that attitude well if i don't take it then they won't make me wear it  
because uh he just he didn't you know  
he's not really into all that  
he would wear it if he had to for his job and all  
but you know if he had the preference i mean his his preference is um blue jeans and a t shirt  
so  
but i think that's great about t i  
and also uh to get off the clothing the smokers you know how they have the   the different designated areas for smokers and stuff  
i think that's great  
oh really  
do you smoke  
uh_huh  
i think that's um  
well um you mentioned your daughter had graduated from college  
well when she was in high school did she always have to have all the new fashions  
and uh  
see that's how that's how i am  
but my mamma was not raised like that  
and so  
oh me to  
boy i have   to hunt them down  
uh_huh  
that's great  
i wanted to take a sewing class at school  
but i just haven't fit it into my schedule yet  
but that i mean that can really benefit  
um that's something that i'd be very interested in very interested in learning  
uh they're outrageous  
uh_huh  
yeah it's   it's marked up  
it is it is really outrageous  
but uh i mean like whenever i i was growing up and all my mom  
i never understood this then  
but i do now  
but she never would buy me like the new [designer] jeans that had come out that were thirty dollars  
or   um or she wouldn't buy me the fifty dollar tennis shoes and stuff like that  
and she always told me it was because i was still growing  
and she wasn't going to buy me something i was going to grow out of next week  
yeah  
oh no  
uh_huh  
that's the best way to shop  
i mean i always thought my mom was being mean to me  
but i look back at it now  
and my child is going to  
i mean i'm going to raise mine the same way  
um i don't know  
i just they're just so outrageously priced  
it's just incredible  
i try to uh always catch the sales  
always  
yeah  
it it depends on um  
yeah  
there's there's always a reason why they're on sale  
so that that has a lot to do with it  
but um  
well  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh-oh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
the [defect]  
uh_huh  
t j max does that  
yeah  
we have a t j max over here  
and um  
okay  
guess we can go ahead  
uh well i guess you know it's you know  
since living in dallas it's always so hot so in the summertime i just i wear lots of shorts so because i don't work during the day  
so do you work  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and buying suits and stuff yeah because just being at home  
and i work at home  
so   i just have you know i just wear my you know my shorts and stuff like that  
i don't go out and spend lots of money on uh different you know suits and stuff you know  
but when i  
before i got married you know i was working  
so i uh you know i had more suits and stuff then  
but  
worry about all that kind of stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
when you're training right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
moved from   winter  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because i came from wyoming  
and i had wool suits and wool skirts  
and   you know i've got all these clothes that i never wear   because you can't wear them here  
and uh the seasons are just so much different  
you have so much summer  
and uh so then when i you know i finally get a chance to go out with my husband it's like a real chore to find something nice to wear  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you hate to get rid of it because you know how much you spent on them  
and it's real hard to get rid of some of that stuff i know  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
clothes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and i i just don't spend you know  
right now my clothes come from target you know  
yes  
and they  
you take them out of the drier  
and they're [wadded] up in a ball  
oh  
i'm so glad to meet somebody that that their iron board is their permanent fixture in their house  
you know i have very little furniture  
but my ironing board is part of my [decor]  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well yeah  
it is it is  
but it's like uh i just don't want to do it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's an idea  
yeah  
yeah  
i you know  
if i have  
if i know i'm having somebody come over to the house and there's a possibility they might be going back into my room   i will put it away  
but i iron our clothes as we go along  
so you know  
right  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you can't iron it all  
and  
yeah  
and then with my kids they're always getting into you know  
they can't decide what they want to wear so they   change their minds you know i know i mean my oldest is only four  
but she's still changes her mind two or three times   before she figures out what she's going to wear  
so  
and then they never put anything back  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that that that's called smart you know they don't we don't do that kind of stuff you know   that's called too easy on mom  
our lot in life is to make her life miserable  
so  
uh  
yeah  
well that's  
it's been good talking to you to see somebody hear somebody that does the same thing i do because i tell people what i do  
and they just go oh how do you do that  
it's like it's easy you just do it you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think i'd know what to do if it wasn't there you know  
my husband wouldn't know where to hang his dirty clothes  
you know  
yeah  
he wouldn't know where to put things  
so  
yeah  
so  
oh it was nice talking with you too  
take care  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do work  
uh and  
but i work at a manufacturing plant  
so i wear a lot of blue jeans   and t shirts  
but occasionally i have to get dressed up and wear [panty] hose and a dress   and high heel shoes  
and i feel really uncomfortable doing that  
and   in the plant so uh it's it's a problem for me  
but normally i just wear blue jeans and a t shirt  
very very comfortable  
i like that so much better than having to wear dress clothes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i have plenty of suits and dress clothes because i'm like you when i first started working   uh i have all these suits and blouses and skirts and mix and match and that kind of stuff  
but now that i you know work in the manufacturing plant then it's just it's so much more difficult for me to to actually get dressed up to come in to work like that  
uh but occasionally i have to because uh part of my job is teaching   and training  
and uh so you have to look just a little bit nicer than your normal   [garb]  
than your normal [garb]  
but i'm like you too uh i moved from ohio down to here  
and i had mostly [polyesters] and   [wools] and winter clothes   and buying all these cotton clothes  
and then of course you have to iron them all the time  
that's really  
that's been a problem for me  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
that's true that's true  
well i know i was just now uh uh putting away a lot of my winter clothes  
and i was going through here  
and i was thinking i haven't worn this in three years  
and because it's a wool skirt  
and there's just not that many opportunities to wear it  
and i have five or six wool skirts  
so i was thinking well maybe you know i need to think about getting rid of them  
but no i folded it up [neatly] and put it away maybe next year  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know i agree with you  
well i know last year uh well this past winter it wasn't that cold  
but the previous winter we had more uh cold weather where i was able to actually wear   your double and triple [layerings] of uh clothes   yeah like you would when you're up north  
so   that's really interesting  
yes  
yes  
yes  
and they're all one hundred percent cotton  
and  
yes  
yes  
i know  
so i uh i have my ironing board sitting out all the time   i never put mine away  
it is it is  
that's true  
and and i've been looking at these uh uh like in home depot where you can go and they've got that ironing boards that will just flip right down off of the uh uh what the the the door  
and uh  
and then you can actually have one where you can put it inside of a wall you know to have it   permanently attached  
and that's what i'm thinking i'm going to have to do because mine's sitting right out in front of my bedroom  
and it's just it's just an [eyesore] i think   with all the  
uh uh  
uh uh  
no  
i've been thinking about putting the ironing board in the closet   and and running you know a line in there for my iron so i could do it in there  
and i wouldn't have to have that [eyesore]  
yeah  
so i have a big closet  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i no longer do that weekly thing   because i have so many  
and i'm like you   i the night before or that day i will iron whatever it is that we need  
and that's it  
because it's too many  
hundred percent cotton  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
oh i know i know  
no  
no  
of course not  
no  
that uh that would be too simple  
absolutely not  
that's right  
uh_huh  
absolutely absolutely  
oh  
that's right  
that's right you do you do  
so uh  
but yeah  
i uh i know several of my girlfriends though we uh we all keep our ironing boards out and just uh an ever present thing in our household  
so  
there you go  
things that need to be [mended]   things that have to get [ironed]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
oh well it was nice talking with you  
okay  
take care  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
all right  
and and your occupation is teaching  
substitute teacher  
yes  
it is it is  
right  
well i was just trying to make an introduction here  
but oh and and i haven't told you i'm going to be at a different school this year now  
i've just gotten a another job at an elementary library at [barron]  
right  
i  
well not really  
i've got the every day i've got to uh read to kindergartners  
so i'm going to be down on the floor with them  
i've got about forty kindergartners i'm going to be doing working with every day for uh you know a half hour  
so i'll be i'll probably be wearing slacks as often as i do because i'm i'm if i'm going to be down on the floor messing with them i'm not going to wear nylons and you know   nice nylons and dresses  
right  
well of course you've been at clark enough that you know it's always cold  
but you don't know uh i guess at some of the other schools you go to unless you've been there  
subtract  
right  
i i think some of the dress codes are different at different schools  
that's one of things one of the things i ask about you know whether whether she would allow slacks  
and she said she doesn't have a problem with that  
she just didn't like sloppy dressing  
and and i said well you know that was okay  
and i'm  
basically i just you know i wear slacks year round except every about once a week i try to wear a skirt  
and and in the winter you know i just add a maybe wear longer sleeve shirts than i do in the summer and add a heavier jacket or you know wear jackets more in the winter than i do in the summer  
that's about  
i don't i don't really work in a profession that requires that i wear a business suit and you know look really  
yeah  
right  
and you never know that though   sometimes when you're going in do you  
right  
right  
right  
on what thursday  
right  
right  
so that would kind of give you a a clue i guess  
and and sometimes you get the long term stuff  
so you're aware ahead of time   of what's going on  
that  
so that's  
and i don't know you know  
i i think about well the dress code they have for the kids you know  
are  
they put one on the parents or the teachers and say they have to the men have to wear ties  
and there can be no blue jeans worn  
and because some of the teachers i know wear uh dress up jeans not sloppy looking jeans   but [tapered] jeans that they've had dry cleaned so they have got the [crease]  
and uh you know they'll wear it with a nice top  
and and uh i don't know that that looks that bad  
but if you're going to tell the kids they have to dress up i guess you can tell the teachers that too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
there's a couple   teachers up there that that do dress up more than others  
right  
right  
well and you always  
course it's a standing joke you know when the when the men come in in a a tie and a suit coat you say you know what have you got a job interview today  
or   there there's   there's usually yeah there's usually something going on that that uh and would would uh cause that to happen  
and i i don't know how a coach would feel if that teaches health or you know english or whatever that they had to wear a tie  
i  
some of those male coaches that might really  
right  
and a t shirt  
right  
that i didn't ever understand  
i mean we've got coaches that teach health for five periods and then have athletics sixth period  
so  
whether  
change then  
well see that's what i would think  
that's what i would think  
right  
course we had had one coach one period he'd teach p e and the next period health and then a period of p e  
and and that's hard  
you know so he just left warm ups on  
but but uh no  
i think really probably they could they could uh really  
and i don't know if if they put make uniforms the thing for the kids  
i guess the teachers will have to follow suit with a dark skirt and a white top  
and  
you don't think so  
well some of them yes they do  
and and it's not   at some of the private schools  
but even there's a couple public schools in dallas where where the kids wear uniforms and the teachers you know dress   in [accordance] with that  
uh_huh  
well i i think it would make a difference at school  
i i don't think we should be spending time saying somebody's wearing torn clothing or wearing too shorts too short  
or they've got the really short skirt and the black nylons and the high you know  
i mean   it's a lot of trouble to to take care of that  
and of course the kids say then why bother just let me wear what i want  
and and yet we can't to that either  
i'd like to see them go to to not necessarily a uniform but saying that they've got to wear a button down shirt you know  
that would that would alleviate any t shirts with sayings on them  
but if they could wear a button down shirt and a pair of dark slacks and they could buy them anywhere they wanted  
and  
and then the girls  
right  
i don't  
no  
not in plano  
they may get  
but they said in the dallas schools that that helps their educational process there  
highland [park's] thinking about going that route  
so it  
and then i think that's going to push teachers to dress a lot more professionally than they do  
yeah  
i agree with you on  
i'm a i'm a substitute teacher  
is is this pat i'm talking to now  
yeah  
i'm a substitute teacher in i believe the same school system we both work in  
oh okay  
oh  
well i bet you're you're you may dress differently then for that  
well   what i wear sometimes depends on on how cold i think the school might be or what room i might be in   since i'm a sub and have different rooms to go to and always carry a sweater  
yes  
no  
you try to layer so you can add or or   or take off  
and it's it's interesting to notice when you go to different schools that some are a little more fancier than others and have a very casual uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and well for me sometimes they even have dress up days  
or they you know have have spirit week that that you wear your different outfits  
and you have to have the color for that particular school if you if you choose to participate in   spirit week  
and one might be a hat day where you have to come up with some   sort of hat  
no  
but because i sort of stick to several schools uh i'm usually aware that there might be a spirit week going on and and might might remember to do it  
and then many schools on a particular day during uh i guess football season maybe all year long they wear the school colors for uh game day   which  
right  
it might be thursday for the high schools  
and it may be friday for the senior high schools  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it it  
i see that the  
i think the elementary school teachers or maybe even the middle school teachers dress a little fancier than than some of the high school teachers i think  
but it i think it varies it it just so much  
anything anything can go  
and you can see in some of the departments in some of the schools like history at clark they're all pretty fancy  
but they're just sort of into clothes  
and then there's other departments   that aren't  
and they'll just wear your common ordinary you know whatever you might   might say  
right  
and so you try to maybe follow those if you know you're going there  
you don't want to dress too tacky because you're going to be in the same room with them  
or you're going   to be observed  
yeah  
right  
they go around in their little coaching shorts or   [parachute] pants  
yeah  
well at   vines the coaches don't do that  
they they dress pretty good i would say  
and then they go to their coaching  
and they they put their shorts   on there  
uh_huh  
but they they don't look you know they don't wear their sweat pants or or anything  
they're they dress like any other teacher would in   in a classroom situation not in p e  
those i can understand  
yeah  
i don't think we'll ever get to that  
no  
i don't think  
i think we're going the opposite direction  
it's the parochial schools that i guess many  
they've had uniforms for years  
i don't really know if they still do  
it certainly makes it easier to dress  
uh_huh  
well it's certainly cheaper and easier in the long run i think that you don't have to be concerned about your wardrobe  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i doubt that that would come   that that will come about  
just  
yeah  
i i  
no  
not  
yeah  
well i think it does  
it it takes their minds off of of trying to compete  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i don't think a lot of teachers are very professional  
but  
hi uh  
basically i wear pants  
i'm a real pants person  
and uh like when i'm at home since  
and i'll say i'm a homemaker since that's my basic thing uh  
i wear a pantsuit most of the time  
not a pantsuit  
i guess pants and a shirt  
and uh in the summertime i wear cotton tops  
cotton top shirts  
and in the winter i wear uh like sweaters  
i like sweaters a lot  
and so i do that  
but when i go out for meetings uh then i will wear either uh skirts or uh a dress  
and i have a couple of [pantsuits] because those are real in at this time  
but that's basically what i do  
oh  
right  
well that sounds nice  
uh it said the seasons  
do do you change much through the season  
or  
uh_huh  
maybe  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
then  
uh well i don't have the resources to just go out and buy buy buy anyway  
and so my don't change dramatically over the years  
if i need something new i will go and buy it  
but basically i'm a a pretty much the same  
in the summertime i wear the light cotton  
and in the wintertime i change to the sweaters  
and so it's not a whole lot of of change for me either  
and uh especially when i go to the meetings and wear the dresses  
i i i enjoy that  
but it just wouldn't be uh smart for me to do that in my home with my children  
so i have to uh think about things like that too  
i have given seminars before in in creative writing and things like that  
now i don't know if they consider that a job  
i don't really get paid for that uh often  
but uh when i do that then i i think i become more businesslike  
uh but it doesn't really change my clothing style  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
that's not helpful  
yeah  
i guess so  
well it's been great talking to you  
have a great day  
bye  
hello  
well i think our tastes are fairly similar  
although i am i government worker i do tend to  
i'm uh a scientist  
so that technically  
i suppose i could get away with with extremely casual clothes  
but for the most port part i don't  
i wear fairly respectable looking shoes  
and   and a pantsuit of one sort or another  
and uh i guess dress it up with a with a a very nice black jacket when i have have visitors or have to give talks  
right  
no  
actually i guess this summer i i wore some fairly nice jeans   uh more than i have in previous seasons  
but uh no  
i tend to to use the same things because actually our offices are very cold in summer  
i don't know whether they think by you know freezing them up overnight then they can save electricity during the day or something  
but   but you know you wear a heavy sweater in your office   all summer  
so right  
uh yeah  
i don't i don't i you know i'm not a clothes horse in the sense that some of my friends  
and i guess although in as i recall the stereotype of of secretaries was you know [overdress] over kill sort of  
and   in a in a sense the people i know who spend the most on clothes are secretaries  
although the fact that most of the ones i know are in the government and they're not meeting the public   it i find it a little bit strange that their priorities would would be to spend this money here  
you know  
i mean i suppose if you were a a more a receptionist and meeting the public and it was the image of your company at stake   perhaps you would have to dress up  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
i mean you can look businesslike in in a the same pant suit you would you know   wear for other things  
yeah  
i'm i'm really glad about that pant suits are popular because i'm allergic to many of the [synthetics]  
and so i used to have a problem when when i was working in a restaurant while i was in college   and had to dress up and nylons and things like that would just give me a terrible [rash]  
so   right  
right  
but otherwise now i'm i guess we're both pretty practical  
okay  
well have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
why don't you start  
so you probably have a job you need to get to pretty soon  
oh you are  
oh wonderful  
well how do you dress for work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you're in a church there  
uh_huh  
well i'm working this is my first morning to work down at our little church preschool  
and they've told me to wear just something terribly comfortable because these are two year olds  
and they have a lot of uh they have bible lessons  
and they have all the things during the morning  
but they still have snack time and play time  
so i'm going to be dressing just in casual slacks and t shirts probably not blue jeans but little bit short of that just just tennis shoes and play clothes  
yeah  
i'm envious  
well it's a beautiful day here  
and it's in the sixties  
but we still have a lot of hot afternoons  
it's supposed to be eighty five today  
so you'll still see people  
it it's kind of an in between change that they're in their play clothes i mean they're in their summer clothes during the afternoons because you just can't stand the sweaters  
but in the mornings people are dressing for work in their sweaters because they just want it to be fall so badly  
did you  
i understand  
well so are the people around you um dressing similar to you  
uh_huh  
so you don't have to you don't have to buy the lot of the wardrobe that some of the people in banking and that kind of thing do  
well that's good  
that's good  
uh_huh  
well that's wonderful  
well my husband has to take the bus into dallas and doesn't return all day  
so he has to dress  
and he just really hates it  
they have the long sleeve shirts and the whole tie and the whole suit  
and even when his job is not going to be with people all day long he said it's just part of the uniform and the expected image that they have to dress  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think that's i think that's great  
i think that's good  
i understand  
well another interesting thing on the our our end here is how even in my forties how much younger i dress than my mother would have in her forties  
and i will run around to the store in things in slacks and tennis shoes  
and she  
right  
and [pearls]  
and she would not have even probably owned a pair of tennis shoes after she got out of high school  
so uh she tells me i dress young  
but that's okay  
well there's not a lot more i can think of to discuss on clothing  
i guess this is what you call a natural end  
well we wear  
of course like i said if my husband's going downtown he's got the whole uh you know the dress men's dress shoes  
but for as out here just anything that the moms  
we all kind of have our own little dress code of just either tennis shoes or little [loafers] and and uh [tights] and things that feel comfortable to us around our kids  
yeah  
i'm sure they are there  
yeah  
i'm sure they are  
that's right  
i'm sure that true  
it's a lot different than working in a kids preschool  
that's right  
well you all have a nice day there  
thank you very much  
bye bye  
i'm already on my job  
so you you reached me at my job  
my my dress for work uh most of the time is uh rather comfortable and casual   uh usually uh slacks and a soft colored shirt  
the um thing that that [distinguishes] me a lot of the time when i have to dress real professionally for a meeting or something is i wear a clerical collar   and a suit and uh all of that sort of thing  
but when i don't need to dress up for a a meeting or a   service of some sort i don't  
yes  
well around there you can probably wear uh t shirts and other things  
but around here at this time of the year   we are into sweaters   and uh coats  
today today we we wear coats  
and   as the day uh warms up we may go to light jackets  
but i don't think there's an escape from light jackets  
the wind will take away a lot of body heat  
very similar  
no  
i'm not stuck with that   kind of a uh situation  
as i say unless it happens to be  
now yesterday i had to dress up and   and uh be more formal because i had a a formal meeting at noon time  
but then i can go home later in the day and and be a little more casual  
and then if i have a a meeting of people that i know i can be very casual in the evening  
yeah  
that's around here in a lot of places that's the way it is  
i mean there there are expected uh dress codes  

and the people need to follow that  
i think uh years ago i used to be far more uh committed to the idea of of a dress code  
but i've relaxed a lot more as i've gotten older and become more comfortable with myself  
it's taken a long time to break away   from from that  
but now that i've broken away from it i'm i'm glad i have  
you mean you don't need to wear little old house dresses any more  
that's a good idea  
that's a good idea  
no  
there you know  
yeah  
what kind what kind of shoes do they wear down there  
uh_huh  
we we can wear pretty much that although um tennis shoes are kind of out   in in almost every every situation   unless you want to look like a [gook]  
a lot different  
you too  
and thank you for calling  
uh_huh  
bye  
okay  
so we're going to talk about uh what kind of clothes we wear while we work  
do you work for t i  
oh you do  
well you're like me then  
i stay home also  
yes  
i have two a seven year old and three and a half year old  
how about you  
oh  
oh my you are busy  
and they're all girls  
i have two girls  
so all girls around here  
yes  
uh really sweet  
that's how i am too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's funny  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know that's kind of how i am  
i said who ever i talk to is going to be board because when it's summer time i'm wearing shorts  
and when it's cold i'm wearing sweat pants and   most of unless i'm going to something special that my daughter's doing or something like that  
well that's that's good  
i used to wear jeans all the time until after i had kids  
and now nothing seems to be comfortable because i bulge in all the wrong places  
so  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
well  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
one of my daughters was born in june  
and i remember i wore [sundresses] and you know just those real cool dresses almost the entire time  
and i had one that was born in december  
so um it was a little bit because it was a real warm winter  
so even even into like november and december i was still wearing the short sleeve dresses  
course i'm always hot when i'm pregnant too  
so  
i i didn't really need warm clothes  
but i really have been spoiled by sweat pants and these new uh units outfits you know that are just knit  
oh they are so comfortable  
it's it's just um you know a light weight   kind of like a sweat suit but made out of that real light polyester stuff  
and   it's just great because you can put you know you can decorate them up or dress them up if you want  
or you can just wear them with you know tennis shoes if you want  
so they're really nice  
and i've enjoyed wearing those  
but i  
yeah  
well i don't either  
if we if we had professional jobs where we go into an office and have to wear a jacket or something   that would make a big difference  
i worked part time when my oldest was a baby  
and um i had to wear a dress every day  
and   and it was a little bit hard to uh wind down  
i would i would have to drive six thirty five home  
and i would be burning up like in the summer time  
by the time i got home i was like oh i've got to get out of these clothes  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and then when you drive home like especially if you're in a lot of traffic   which you are in dallas  
uh_huh  
because i always hated to run my air conditioner just sitting still all the time  
i was afraid i'd make the car [overheat]  
yeah  
so i would roll my windows down  
it was still a hundred degrees  
and i would just be [sweltering] hot by the time i picked my daughter up  
and   um i had a friend who used to take shorts to work  
and after work she'd go in the bathroom and change her clothes  
and i thought that's probably a good idea   because you really  
yeah  
because you can ruin your good clothes getting so hot in them if you   especially if it's something that has to be dry cleaned which i don't have any of  
no  
when you have children you don't  
um even when i go to church i have to have something i can just throw in the washer when i'm through  
that's right or if you get it dirty or whatever  
i know it  
me too  
i know  
that's how i am too  
right  
me neither  
i have  
okay  
i'm ready  
uh_huh  
no  
i work at home  
do you have children  
oh that's good  
i have four girls  
they're nine and five and three and a [newborn]  
yes  
girls are nice aren't they  
anyway as far as clothing goes um my wardrobe changes all the time depending on my size  
we go from regular kind of spring clothes   regular kind of fall clothes   pregnant clothes   clothes that are in between where you're not down to regular size yet   or you're on your way up from regular size  
and they're all in boxes or bags  
and they all rotate all the time   kind of the same stuff all the time though  
i   don't uh get a whole lot new right now  
yeah  
yeah  
i i like jeans a lot  
oh and it's it's frustrating  
i just i find i have to get the right kinds though or it's not comfortable  
they  
it it works best if they have pleats in the front  
and uh they have to  
my waist is kind of small compared to the hips  
so it has to be not the straight up and down [levis] kind  
but um but i  
when i was i was pregnant through the summer this time   and i wore dresses all the time   because it was so much cooler   and so much more comfortable   not to have something [binding] on your waist  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i haven't tried those  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't know if they expected us to talk about [blazers] and such here  
but i sure never wear them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'm watching [janice]  
uh_huh  
oh  
i i remember that from when i was  
i worked way before i was married even  
but offices they keep them so cold   in the summer that you can't wear regular summer clothes   and be comfortable  
you've got to have something to   add to it or something  
i don't know if you can  
you burn up  
yeah  
yeah  
it's hard on the car  
oh  
yeah  
oh that's funny  
yeah  
at least something cooler  
that's true  
yeah  
i don't have to worry a whole lot about that  
that's right  
something that it doesn't matter if it gets spit up on too  
i've always been a creature of comfort too  
if it's not comfortable forget it  
wool was never comfortable to me  
uh the only work i do outside the home is i am an avon representative  
and i sell family products  
and uh  
so i i don't really i don't really dress up a whole lot  
do you work outside  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you'd have to dress differently when you're working every day i think  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's kind of nice to relax a little bit  
yeah  
well my my dress up  
i live out in the country also  
so   what i wear depends on the weather  
uh so i really i know a lot of the avon representatives are portrayed as being very dressed up  
but i mostly dress i try to dress nice but for convenience because when the weather's bad when i go into the home i take off my shoes   which i try to wear something easy to take off you know   and put on  
and i don't too often take off my coat even  
so uh i really don't have to dress up like you would like if you're in an office or something   uh well not actually because   we really only have maybe three four months of i'd say warm weather  
yeah  
and the rest is uh gets into the cooler weather  
uh_huh  
course they keep saying the weather's going to change and we're going to have more florida type weather up here  
so i   don't know  
but for now   but for now we have a lot of ice and snow in the wintertime and uh cold weather   and that type of thing  
now my daughter works all the time  
so she dresses  
i think you know you have to spend more money on your clothing and that   because you do have to have the appearance a good appearance to do a good job   where you work  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
did you find you wore uh slacks when you were working full time  
or did you   did they wear more dresses and skirts  
no slacks  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
not even a dressy slack a dressy suit slack suit even   if it's all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know my daughter mostly  
i don't think she ever wears slacks   to work  
but i didn't know if the trend changes you know if uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
look more like a woman huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh well then you you you know why they make them then   that way  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but yet you need to keep up an appearance for your husband too though   at home   because that's i i believe  
oh you don't think you will huh  
well you'll be excused because considering everything  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i i look at homemaking as a job also   uh being a homemaker  
and i i think sometimes we lose sight of that   uh by the fact that we don't sometimes watch our dress  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
do you  
well i i work uh  
i'm a c p a  
and i do contract work  
and so and i work with another c p a who just started his own practice  
and i work with him a couple days a week  
and so when i go to his office or to other [clients'] offices then i'll dress up  
but otherwise it's great being at home   in jeans or shorts or whatever  
so that that makes it pretty nice  
it's   kind of weird because before i used to work you know full time  
and and uh it seemed like i was wearing a suit every day just about  
right  
right  
and so it's uh  
some of my suits i haven't put on for quite a   while  
so it's   it's it's very nice  
gosh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i imagine that where you live uh you're in warm clothing quite a bit of the year  
not really  
oh is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you all are waiting for that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
well down here it's sunny most of the time   and uh usually warm  
i mean we had a few cool days uh this month  
but not anything i'm sure compared to what you've had so far  
so i mean people are still wearing shorts  
and   and uh usually around halloween it starts getting cooler  
so   you start   you know breaking out a coat   at that time  
but that that lasts you know for a few months  
no  
no  
never wore slacks  
it was i think it was one of those things where it's not like someone came out and said you can't wear them  
it was one of those understood things   that you just you know either wore you know a dress or  
not  
no  
not not with what i did uh  
most people didn't  
sometimes like the secretaries might  
but even then you didn't see them wearing slacks too much  
and i really you know  
there's some nice [pantsuits] out  
and   and i wouldn't have minded you know wearing those   especially when it gets pretty cold  
but uh  
uh_huh  
you know i think it's one of those things where it's not viewed upon as being professional  
i guess they   expect women to be in skirts   or dresses  
yeah  
that's right  
and it's the men that make the rules  
but no  
we usually you know  
skirt and skirt and blouse or suit or dress   is what you see down here  
so it's nice with me working at home because i can wear pants  
no no one can see me   unless i'm you know  
yeah  
yeah  
but i'm not going to put a skirt on just for him  
yeah  
i think that the main issue at home   is being comfortable   in your clothing  
right  
yeah  
the way  
i'll go ahead and start  
the way i work uh the way i dress   for work is uh this year nineteen ninety one has been really suit and tie  
or i shouldn't say suit but coat and tie every day  
a a year ago i changed jobs from being a researcher   to doing marketing for the research group  
which means kind of a i guess it's a different set of standards i guess  
so uh i i dress almost the same every day  
i mean pretty much it's a white shirt and   slacks and shoes and   a coat  
but it was very different before  
how do you dress  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i understand  
right  
i understand  
that's funny  
so does it change  
your dress  
no  
so or i guess do you have things like presentations to do or anything like that  
so back in my old job up until through nineteen eighty   i would usually wear blue jeans and pullover shirts and the like  
but probably once a month or so there was some reason that i would have to put on a suit   for a customer presentation or something  
oh i see  
i understand  
oh well that's interesting  
let's see uh what else about this uh  
it it seems like t i is pretty cut and dried with two like two or three levels  
that there's the upper management that always wears gray suits   and the people that don't uh  
i would if you if i want to say don't have power or don't have authority or whatever   like i used to be in that research  
and i guess you are  
that we dress in the jeans  
and then there's kind of the the branch manager level   or marketing people that kind of do that middle thing  
but there's not much  
it's nice that there's not a requirement   for it  
oh yeah  
right  
yeah  
i guess you see those once in a while  
sure  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
i guess they're the isn't there a dress code something about spaghetti straps  
i'm not even sure what they are  
oh [backless]  
all right  
okay  
so this wasn't necessarily a big conversation  
but i think we   we did it  
okay  
and and your name was lisa  
great  
i am  
yes  
and i work in the north building  
uh well thank you  
all right  
good day  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'm a drafter  
so i just wear blue jeans and tennis shoes  
and i have sweatshirt on today  
and that's pretty much the norm for me  
if i come in in a dress everybody's shocked  
they ask me you know what are you doing in a dress  
and it's usually i haven't done my laundry lately  
ran out of jeans  
no  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
every now and then i'll get dressed up and come in  
but that's for my husband's job and not mine  
i have to go to a business meeting once a month with him  
but  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
middle of the road  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sometimes i think there should be  
some of these women around here look like they came off of harry [hines]  
and you know the they have the no shorts deal  
and some of these mini skirts you know are worse than shorts ever thought about being  
but uh   you know that's i guess that's one of the things you got to put up with when you don't have a dress code  
supposedly and [backless] things  
but i've seen those too  
but  
uh yeah  
lisa  
are you the expressway sites  
oh okay  
thank you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
uh clothing at work  
um i work as a news reporter  
and   a lot of  
i work in a since i work in a small station  
this is my first job  
and so i dress very [variedly] if that's a word  
um sometimes i'm shooting and doing photography  
and so i'll be in jeans one day  
and   another day i'll be on camera  
and so i'll be in a suit  
and another day i'll come in  
and i won't know what i'm doing  
so i'll wear a pant suit   in case i have to shoot  
so it really varies  
i try to dress very comfortably  
i don't really like dressing up at all  
i don't i don't wear a lot of makeup or anything like that  
i just  
i don't know  
it just it takes too much time out of my day  
and i don't i don't know  
yeah  
i don't mind it at all um  
uh_huh  
okay  
white pants in a bakery  
wow  
okay  
what's the name of the bakery  
oh italian i guess  
new clothes and stuff  
yeah  
that's one thing i would like is just to sort of have i really don't like uniforms   but just to have something i don't have to get up and decide what to wear  
that just bugs me to death  
oh yeah  
sweats and  
yeah  
when i was in school i was a sweat monster  
all i had was sweats  
and when it was time to go out i didn't have anything to wear  
yeah  
yeah  
um let me see  
i hate shoes  
if i didn't have to have shoes i wouldn't have them  
i just oh my feet bother me  
and they're just tedious  
to go find shoes for me it's just  
i don't know  
i wear size nine  
and it i don't know if just the shoes i get i either don't like them or they don't fit right  
and i   just wish that i could just go without them  
oh really  
oh  
just the opposite  
but um let's see  
what else do i wear  
um if i were in a bigger market when i do get into a bigger market i'll probably go out and buy a bunch of suits and things and uh where i wouldn't have to shoot and do a lot of other things  
and i could   then i would be able to dress more business like and things like that  
but   we're all kind of just out of school at this station  
and so we're all you know still in sweats really  
so it's pretty fun though  
yeah  
i  
oh  
yeah  
i like this the uh suits with the  
they come like with a mini type skirt   you know and the jacket  
i like that  
but   but i'm pretty short  
i'm five four  
and so that really doesn't [flatter] me  
but i think it looks good on taller people  
are you  
yeah  
any time i go to the store  
i mean i i have like two pairs of pants because i can never find any that are short enough for me  
and it's just oh ridiculous  
pants too i could do without those  
pants shoes  
yeah  
those are nice  
those are nice  
yeah  
those are nice  
and tennis shoes  
my boyfriend's got me these l a gear  
they're kind of big and [hefty] tennis shoes  
and it it's just like a chore to pick up my feet   because i'm used to wearing the little white girl tennis shoes  
the little ones  
yeah  
and i'm used to those  
they're just sort of you know  
like your feet  
i mean you don't feel them  
you put these things on  
it's it's you know like exercise or something for your feet  
and i have to wear them because he gets upset if i don't  
so   so so how do people in wisconsin dress  
warm  
i grew up in new york  
and so i know what warm is  
like five pairs of socks and  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh  
oh  
oh me neither  
yeah  
yeah  
same here  
i don't mind not wearing any makeup  
um i work at a bakery   because i'm a still a a college student um  
but we we have to wear white pants and um any color t shirt as long as it's not like a bright color like a pastel  
yeah  
yeah  
the [bakers] wear all white  
and we wear [aprons] and have to pull our hair back  
and so  
yeah  
it's italian bakery  
and uh so i don't mind having having to wear a uniform because i don't have to buy you know   right as you know many clothes  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i do that every day for school  
yeah  
but i i like to wear comfortable things like cotton and baggy things and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i don't have very many dress clothes  
but   i don't mind  
i don't need them yet  
um  
oh really  
oh  
oh  
um  
oh wow i love shoes  
i always buy shoes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
i like the look the the like suit look professional like you know look  
but i i really don't have much of an opportunity to wear it  
um   i'm going to be a teacher  
so i'll probably just wear   casual   clothes maybe skirts and some  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that is cute  
yeah  
i'm five three  
and  
yeah  
oh really  
oh  
i like the like stretch pants the cotton ones  
they're really comfortable  
with a baggy sweatshirt  
oh yeah  
oh  
oh yeah  
i have a pair of those  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
warm this time   this time of the year pretty warm  
sweaters and  
yeah  
yeah  
sleeping in sweats or long underwear  
my parents keep the house cold  
i guess you heard our our topic for today was clothing  
how you dress for work and season to season and everything  
how do you dress for work  
sure  
you bet  
look professional  
yeah  
i understand  
i am a  
i own my company  
i am in the i am uh manufactures rep sales organization  
and my office is a small office  
and i am very casual and wear slacks and sports shirt and things like that  
but then when i travel it is a little different situation  
uh suits and sports coat tie and the whole bit   cause you go to meetings and you are required to look your best and look professional of course  
yeah  
i think in today's society uh there is more credibility to be quite honest  
i will always remember  
i will tell this real quick story when i graduated from college  
my first job years ago uh thirty years ago twenty nine years ago in fact was selling agricultural fertilizer  
i worked for the uh smith douglas division of [borden] chemical  
and i sold uh you know manure  
and uh i would go out and call on farmers  
and i would always try to look my best wearing sport coats and things like that  
but i was calling on guys that wore bib [overalls]  
and so one day i got up and thought well i will just go casual and you know that i called on a guy wearing exactly that bib [overalls]  
and he sort of told me that he expected me to be professional  
and he sort of expected me to dress as a professional  
so uh it was sort of  
you bet   even back then  
so i sort uh been aware of my dress ever since then and   try to look my best  
but here again i dress casual quite a bit  
so  
it gives you confidence  
in my business if i call on the the j c penney company here in dallas or say someone say sears and [roebuck] in chicago then i wear coat and tie  
if i call on just uh a normal little dealer of mine i might be casual  
i call on [oshman's] sporting goods again it may be casual or it may be coat and tie  
so it depends  
uh probably no  
probably no   because uh today i believe you can get away with  
but then it depends on who you are calling on  
who you're  
you like your minister standing up in front of you with no tie you just uh he would be missing something  
although he shouldn't be evaluated on that  
so it's its' just different  
yes  
it is  
i am uh like a catholic  
and the people that go to my church you know  
catholics dress very casual   a lot of the times  
people in jeans and in whatever  
but yet the way i was raised  
i am a converted catholic  
the way i was raised  
i was raised a baptist  
and like as a youngster i use to always dress up all the time  
i guess that has changed also  
right  
sure  
but  
that is a very good point  
i am from west virginia  
so i understand what you are saying there  
and it's it's a very good point  
but you shouldn't what's the old saying you shouldn't judge a book by its cover  
and uh evaluation of an individual course all of it depends on the type of job responsibility you have  
i think you have to dress sort of accordingly  
but uh you certainly should not judge a book by its cover and uh or evaluate a person by that  
what about season to season  
does  
i guess your dress changes  

yes  
i certainly did  
uh_huh  
well uh uh about the same i dress for school  
i uh i am a graduate student  
so i don't have to worry too much about uh what i wear too much of the time   which is nice  
uh   uh uh although i do uh a lot of  
i am a speech pathology major  
and so i do a lot of [clinical] work  
and when i do clinic work then i have to uh uh look my best  
yeah  
unfortunately  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh uh do you find that uh on the average do people give uh more credibility or less credibility to a professional uh to professionally dressed individual  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
even the farmers  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
certainly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it depends  
sure  
uh so you don't uh  
if you had the choice would you wear a tie or not  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that uh  
if if you wanted to uh uh really get into a hot issue uh  
well at least in some in some beliefs uh how people dress when they go to church is uh is uh sometimes a pretty pretty hot topic  
uh unfortunately   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
i'm i am uh i go to the church of christ  
i have been raised in the church of christ  
and uh but uh i uh too many times you hear you hear a lot about what what you're uh supposed you're supposed to look your sunday best   uh uh and dress and proper attire  
and uh and sometimes that really [disappoints] me uh in uh when i see in other economic areas like in kentucky  
you know people just don't have that  
and they are afraid to go to church or afraid to go simply because   they don't have the clothes to wear  
uh_huh  
yeah  
certainly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
a little bit  
uh uh of course in the summer if i can get away with it i wear uh uh a pair of shorts  
and that's it  
run around [barefoot]   no shirt or anything  
but uh  
okay  
so how do you just figure  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
well um i'm going to talk about when i was working as a teacher and when i was working at now  
um when i was a teacher um in utah i would generally wear um dresses and heels and things like that  
and even when it um rained and snowed i just [braved] it  
and i wore heels anyway  
and  
i know  
it might kill you to go up and   walk up to the door  
but you're going to look nice for the kids  
oh oh yeah  
well i need all the height i can get  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we too um  
if it was it looked really dangerous then i would wear boots  
but then i would change um into heels   as soon as i got to my desk  
so um  
oh  
oh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh well um  
yeah um  
the first two years i was in a room where they didn't heat it  
so i did  
yeah  
and then the third year we um got heating  
so it was nice  
right  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
uh_huh  
oh nice  
well  
uh no  
we we moved to iowa  
and um i'm working at a day care right now  
and so the way i dress is really different because i'm working in the nursery room with kids from six months to like twenty months  
yeah  
i wear uh tennis shoes   and jeans and things that you know are sort of um  
not  
yes  
it doesn't matter if i have to wash it a hundred times or something  
yeah  
but i never wore jeans because um i thought that was too casual  
for  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
that's how i feel too  
um oh it there's some good things about it  
but i've seen a lot of things i'm not used to yet um  
um we lived in utah before  
and and i grew up in california  
well you know it depends upon our weather here you know  
today was a beautiful day  
it was like uh uh summer day  
it was seventy degrees  
so   so i dressed in uh uh a light weight skirt  
it's a uh ultra [suede] skirt and a blouse with a sweater [cardigan]   over it  
because i had some [appointments] at the office today some interviews  
and so i had to dress up anyway  
and then i wore heels you know  
but when it rains a lot which is has been doing here a lot lately uh very often you know wear uh pants and boots   you know  
so how do you dress  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i can see  
i i've been a teacher so has my daughter  
and i know that we very often wore heels despite the fact that   it was [tiring]  
that's right  
that's right  
and it always makes you feel like you're a bigger person than the kids right  
yeah  
i do too  
so to be taller than some of the boys in the bigger grades   uh older grades i had to wear heels  
uh_huh  
of course we wear uh an [unlined] boots you know  
it has a heel on it  
they're the kind of boots that i wear to work  
and we wear them you know  
they're a leather boot that you wear  
and as i said they have a regular heel on them high heel  
and they wear them we wear them a lot with shirts and things  
uh it's kind of a  
i can't say constant down here in texas that you wear these boots  
they're not a cowboy boot  
but they're just a real pretty boot  
but they keep your feet nice and [toasty] from the rain  
as i have a private high school that i run here and so when i'm interviewing a parent of course i feel like i need to wear heels   you know and look like i'm a business person   you know because the children will tease about where's your motorcycle   if you wear boots too often you know  
of course you probably wear coats a lot  
oh my goodness  
so then you had to  
yes  
then things improved right  
but of course here we wear a light weight jacket a lot you know you know  
and uh that's very seldom  
we it depends upon our winter  
we have a few days you might wear a coat winter coat you know  
but most of the time you can wear a sweater  
and we just don't wear coats much  
we often laugh about even when it turns chilly  
we're wearing something [lightweight] or no jacket because we're so used to running around like that  
it's really different  
let's put it that way  
are you not teaching anymore  
i see  
oh so you don't wear heels anymore i'll bet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
more practical  
when you were teaching did you ever have uh uh a blue jean day or anything like that  
yeah well  
i know that some of the schools they have uh country western day or something like that one you know or tacky day  
and i always thought it was kind of out of got out of hand when the teachers looked real tacky too  
it's all right for the students  
they look tacky a lot  
but i didn't think teachers should you know  
yeah  
do you like uh uh iowa  
where did you live before  
oh well that's quite a change from california to utah  
okay
hi
well i work in uh corporate control
so we have to dress kind of nice
so i usually wear skirts and sweaters in the winter time slacks
i guess
and in the summer just dresses
we can't even well we're not even really supposed to wear jeans very often
so it really doesn't vary that much from season to season since the office is kind of you know always the same temperature
not [formally] but it's kind of understood that we're supposed to dress a little bit nice a lot of times we have to go over to uh like jerry [junkins'] office and bill [ellsworth's] office to deliver stuff
and we prepare a lot of [foils] for [marvin] and bill
so we have to dress a little bit nice
we're not
yes
now you know if if like in august when everybody is on vacation or something we can dress a little more casual or ice storms of course you know we all came in in our tennis shoes
but i guess that would have to do with the weather
but um unless it's an you know an unusual day
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
or uh_huh
what area
do you work in
um
okay
it with the
yeah
but then usually in the summer
it's cold in the offices because the air conditioner
is doing it's job
so well
oh yeah
it
uh_huh
just suits
there's not a whole lot of fabric [variance] there
uh they can't have a [rayon] suit
so
not really
i think i mean it's kind of [unwritten] but i think we're supposed to wear hose and and shoes
you know most of the people do anyway
and most of the women wear um actually most of the women wear suits more than anything else
but i'm not in that professional of a position
so i don't i'm not expected to do that
uh_huh
yes
pretty much
i'm a secretary yeah
yeah
but there's really no written rule
i guess they couldn't write that down that might be discrimination or something
i don't know
i mean i've never been told what to wear or what not to wear it's just you know judging from what everyone else wears is how i determine you know what i feel a comfortable in you don't want to stand out too much
well that pretty much covers the topic
well thanks for calling me
well i haven't uh i've benefit working in my own home for just um about the last three years
so i can just wear whatever i want
around the house
but before then i taught at the the university of houston
and um so i tried to wear things that were comfortable
but still tried to look you know
yeah
it wasn't quite business
but to give the students um and made you feel like you were the authority i felt like if i came in just in jeans or or [tattered] clothes that i didn't have as good control over the class
and if i tried to wear things that were a little bit more businesslike
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh that's nice
well do you um meet with clients and so you have to dress a certain way for the clients
or
huh_uh
well i have noticed with my own children for example that they will depending on what they're wearing it it makes a big difference on how they act
and so that could be the same can be said for the business office too
uh_huh
uh_huh
well and i noticed in my teaching experience that since a lot of the people were my own age or older even um that because i taught english as a second language
so i didn't have your average freshman
and um so i i had to do something to just [elevate] myself a little bit off their level you want to be friends with the students
but you don't quite want to be their equal
and so for me to dress in businesslike clothes my uh you know um i i preferred slacks because we had to park pretty far
yes
and you wouldn't want to have to walk uh you know in high heels it's hard to walk a long way
and the campus is pretty large
so i preferred slacks and um you know kind of dressy shirts and things
but
so that i would look a little bit different
and i would come in and i would have just the appearance of a little bit more authority than they did
and that helped with their discipline
and didn't make me have to much trouble
and with the students
huh_uh
well i noticed since we moved down here to texas
my husband is originally from texas
but uh i'm not
and since you don't have to have uh such a wide variety of seasonal clothes that you do up north
you have a totally different wardrobe with different [fabrics] you know heavier [wools] and no
and you don't um you know if you usually can wear pretty close to the same types of things just with a jacket or sweater
or or something rather than having the whole entire different wardrobe different shoes you know we always had like um higher shoes higher tops on them
rather than just the lower skim [skimmers] i think they call them that you would wear day to day but
huh_uh
that is really true
a lot of it is um the color certain colors seem to be
acceptable you know if you wear um [pastels] it needs to be warm weather
and otherwise you have to wear darker colors in the winter for some reason
and so i guess part of that is um just the physics of it that in what isn't dark colors attract the sun
and light colors repeal themselves
huh_uh
that's true
there's some rule that's like between labor day uh no
is it labor day or memorial day
huh_uh
right
and the one that's like in may
you can only wear
and supposedly we don't have an opportunity my husband and i we don't go to a lot of like where he as to wear a white dinner jacket or something
and so you can only wear a white dinner jacket between those
two holidays
that is pretty funny
it's funny that we have as a society go to so much trouble when we have so many other things we could be spending our time thinking about
huh_uh
huh_uh
i noticed uh when we moved to plano that um the mall here collin creek
i don't know where you are
but um
oh you do
that there there is a pretty
um i wouldn't say [snobish] it kind of borders on that if i depending on what i'm wearing i get better service at the mall
i felt since
uh since where you know where i've lived in houston that
you have to in order to get the attention you might need help
you need to be
you can't just come in off the street
is what i'm trying to say
oh is it
huh_uh
yes
i think i think your right
i've noticed that too
it's very different
but i've i think it's kind of sad when you have to make have to dress up when you go somewhere
i mean just to the yeah
and you have to be sure that your everything [coordinates] and and everything everything is freshly pressed and everything
no
you can't
well i appreciate the conversation we have had about clothing i know i've
it's interesting to hear a man's point of view it's usually my husband he's got a pretty good deal
i go out and buy all his clothes
well thank you
you have a good day
this is like one of the worst topics
i've had because i'm a terrible dresser
i'm really not that bad of a dresser but um where i work um it's very casual dressing so i can wear jeans and um pretty much a sweater or even a t shirt to work
yeah
well we i work in a manufacturing plant
so we i don't have to deal with customers or anything
but
no
actually i'm at work right now i work at night
and i'm using this phone as one of my you have to have two phones
i'm using one of these
yeah
well i sit here
i'm taking a course
and i study when i when i read my course while i'm trying to get through
so i just make a couple a night though
oh you see that's
i almost wish i had a job like that
so it would force me to dress nice
yeah
because i can [slough] off and then when it comes things out or i go out to dinner or something
or or not not so much going out to dinner
i have like three or four dresses that i can wear something like business interview
i went for another job in a different company
and it's like i go right over to my sister's house
what do you got to wear
yeah
and it's it's really convenient we're twins too
and so it works out
yeah
she just had to change her whole wardrobe because she's going up like a management ladder and even though she still has to work
i mean do some lot of physical work and adjust her machines
um she still has to dress for success as they say
so she went out and she changed her whole her whole wardrobe yeah
that's true
you know
i know because you know even like i [ironed] a shirt to come to work tonight
you know just a nice blouse and if i had to wear it with a suit or something
i would have had done a a ten times better job
yeah
and it's it's got to be more expensive
yeah
but that's what's so hard when you you have to deal with the public or deal with the customers
like that that business suit
boots
do you have to do you find that you you can are you happy with wearing dress slacks instead of dresses
because i know a lot of people dress it's
dresses dresses they hardly don't wear dress pants or anything
yeah
all the girls that i know i know a couple girls that work in insurance offices and that's all they wear are dresses they hardly ever wear pants
then on the weekends you know they wear their jeans
and their sweats but they uh the pants just aren't dressy enough
but in the wintertime
i think i would
yeah
yeah
yeah
even even here the secretaries they usually dress nice
but it's not strange to seem them in jeans and a sweater
so
and you know sometimes it is on fridays
but in the summertime
if their going to like i know a couple of the girls and this one lady goes camping a lot
and like every friday she's
you know she still does her same function and everything
but uh normally she's dressed to the t she's just perfect
yeah
well we're fortunate here cause the [building's] um very um climate controlled but we work in an electronics field
and we have to wear polyester smocks so it's usually um a tank top in the summer
and then silk and polyester are the only things that are close enough to being dressy and [polyester's] terrible on me
and i wear my silk under this polyester uh [smock] and you just get so hot
even though it's a nice temperature in here
so you really in the summer time have to we have to dress extra light because we have to wear these smocks yeah
and in the winter time pretty much just uh um even a [turtleneck's] all right because you have to wear these smocks a [turtleneck] and a sweater
and the [smock] would be too much
it gets really hot
so it's kind of weird when it's really cold we we come in pretty much we take our coat off and then we take our outside sweater off
trucking through the parking lot
yeah
but they still they have to keep the pants really just
but
yeah
and their shirts have to be pressed
so they still have the same thing here
if they could dress casually it would take them less time too
but i know it's great
i mean just putting on a pair of [panty] hose can take you an extra five minutes
yeah
right
i know um even my dress shoes
i don't wear them a lot
i notice the wear on the bottom of them
and there's no way i could wear them all days
i would be one of the women in flats well i'm pretty short
but i have a very bad knee
i couldn't
couldn't walk in heels all day when i go dancing i stay on the ball of my foot hope that i don't slip on my heel
because if my if i if i came down on my heel too much my knee doesn't catch and it's bad
well it's
no
we don't at all
um we used to be a lot [busier] so um it used to be important what you wore if you're comfortable because you knew you were going to spend a lot of time working and now it's very slow
and i pretty much
i've taken a couple of courses
and now i sit at my desk
and i and i read read my courses
i'm a technician
so i've taken a couple of technical courses
plus i'm going to take a couple of college courses
like i've taken um some business courses
just to it gets boring to stay here technical courses learning about in computers
yeah
yeah
this
okay
so do you think it's been five minutes
see i never time these
oh okay
so we can end our call
okay
who knows
did did you have you ever gotten duplicate people
no
i i'm almost afraid to get duplicate people
i don't know why
okay
yeah
okay
bye
uh are you a t i
okay
well we might have a difference uh to talk about on clothing uh
what
i am how come
we got the same
subject
i was amazed that they had the same subject on clothing too
i never have had that before
i noticed it on the weekends occasionally when i call
and how could they possibly get the same person that's ridiculous
no
no
they sure haven't what other aspects i'm i i'm
this is funny you know
uh clothing let's see uh i was curious you know if they just want to talk about the words of uh related to clothing that polyester was coming back
have you heard that uh i saw it on the t v that the
models were they had a new kind of polyester uh whether that they just like to switch materials uh periodically i don't know
we might
i haven't we didn't talk about materials i i prefer you know the cotton with very little
in fact when i look for
uh i i try to go for the [cottons] and i don't know that polyester will although men's shirts are half and half or sixty forty or whatever
yeah
i uh i'm originally from the east and i we used to wear sweaters and things
and sweaters are this isn't necessarily sweater country uh you know i i guess they're not as popular as they were
i don't know about how women if you do you have problems with air conditioning
or were you you were uh
is that a factor
that's very bad
yeah
yeah
at t i
i am too in and out and well of course we don't wear ties and jackets certainly not in this kind of weather
the the jackets they don't disappear but you know they're they're on a hook usually
the vice president's or the [manager's] and again i used to wear them
but i don't i don't bother with it
right now
yeah
that is a problem uh where did i see an article about where they're about that subject where they're trying to have oh i know it was [lunchrooms] where they're trying to encourage people to stay at work
and so that's why they even downtown this might be applicable where they're trying to have restaurants within walking distance
but at the same time
in other words you go down in a subway or whatever
and go to lunch
and they say that's so much more healthy for you than going out in the street in the open traffic and going to lunch
you'd be better off i'm maybe you do have some tunnels down there
and they they say that's so much more healthy for you to you know when you have to go out or go to lunch or whatever
it's to to walk or however and get to a place that is uh you don't have to go in and out of the of the temperature whether that affects how you dress
i can imagine uh
right
yeah
i uh
well i'm for colorful things
and i sure
i i do enjoy the uh the newer products along those lines
what do you think about women and wearing slacks and all that we haven't talked about that
okay
yeah
do you have children i might comment on teenagers how they dress
oh you have a lot to experience i have two
right
well have the opposite then i have uh well one of they're almost now teenagers at one twenty almost twenty and one almost sixteen
and i learned early on being surrounded by women here that the
i i love to take them shopping
but i don't pick anything out you know
i i just kind of influence
but uh the the teen the junior high teenagers really i don't know if you can describe how they dress you know you you
i i know what angle that we can talk about here we they want us to talk about clothes around work
but uh the way kids in school should dress and i'll give you my i don't think that the school should just kind of let the kids dress what is the current style not that it's totally ridiculous
of course
but public schools
oh i didn't hear that yet
right
well well whoever said that in my opinion doesn't have any teenagers who didn't grow
they won't do that they'll never pass it that will be like
right
uh_huh
i can uh of course i went to school you know a hundred years ago in college
and uh we did wear ties and jackets and this was they have since changed it was an engineering school a city it was in an downtown area like i don't know
well you can't compare anything around here to the school in like no u t a
here is in arlington
but i guess like that
and they just historically since it was in the city they wanted us to wear jackets and ties
and i did
my whole college career which is i guess terribly unusual we wore jackets and ties for four years
and i
so subsequently i wanted to get a masters degree in in after i got out of the service
and uh they changed drafts so there was a the styles have certainly changed to where i guess my campus now looks like typical uh college campus
i guess
huh
the older i get the more open to other people's ideas uh you cannot be you have to let them come out with uh whatever they not whatever
but some of their ideas too
and so you kind of back off and see what people
and i know their clothing is changing
you know all the time
and i'm i'm certainly open to how you should dress uh now of course the subject is work uh or clothes really i guess
uh and the again the one thing i am at at work is is certainly a professional look but i'm not saying that that will not the professional look will look differently from year to year perhaps
no
i really don't
it's uh uh go through a lot of shirts and think
no
i don't really
uh_huh
right
well you're sure
right there
because not even when i wore a jacket and a lot of the guys when i was up at spring creek in uh plano uh we think he just brought the same jacket even that wasn't a that's not a black mark against the man
and you're right that uh women are expected to look more
everything matches i guess
right
right
your work without saying much about it
do they ever bring the subject up of asking your opinion on on whether you want things to change on how you dress or are the ties
oh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh t i has several locations different sites have a little bit different dress like i said at spring creek
it was definitely more formal i think because it was newer and uh type and many many more people wore there was very there was very few production areas
uh a little bit during the school year we're uh definitely expected to wear [hosiery] and you know things like that
although we can wear slacks
uh during during the school year
and of course that's a good idea because i do sit on very low chairs to read stories
to kindergartners
and you know so it's pretty important to uh i also like very much the new split skirts
you know because then you
oh that's
oh that's true
the old [culottes] that's right
but those are just real comfortable and uh you know allow you the privacy and all
the only
uh no
i think it needs to be longer probably
if it's split it it varies though between the from one principal to another
there are some like uh some principals insist that you not wear uh [anklet] type shorts
i mean socks uh that you have to wear you know hose
but i know of other schools where they wear uh you know [anklets] and
uh_huh
uh_huh
how embarrassing i know i hate that you really really have to check on the check on the length
well we wear the knee high ones
a lot too
so
do you wear uh suits very much
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i am too
and i
uh i've been here seventeen years
but i'm from but i'm from illinois
that's right
that's right
that's right
right
that really is nice
i uh i'm kind of a pack rat especially when it comes to clothes
and i i mean i still have some sweaters that i had you know from before i moved down here
things that were were wool or just you know really nice things and and really very seldom get to wear them
and should certainly get rid of probably all of them
but like i said i'm kind of a
yeah
that's that's really true because who would want it down here
but anyway
they they still sit around in drawers and boxes and i i get them out at the beginning of the winter
out of a box and put them in my drawer
and then at the end of the winter i take it out of the drawer and put it back in the box and sometimes i never wore it now that is silly isn't it
yeah
are you from here then
uh_huh
well the thing is that you know it does get cold
but it's just such a short season
you know
and you just can't wear that much
oh how nice
rabbit rabbit rabbit
huh
where have you found them
uh_huh
but they carry them at dillard's
huh
i'll have to look at those that sounds interesting
uh_huh
uh_huh
well you mentioned that you liked the long skirts and i i really do too
i just i don't know
i'm really comfortable in
uh_huh
uh_huh
i like that too
that's exactly right
oh well for work
well you work year round
right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's true
yeah
that's true
well i have more summer stuff
i guess for that kind of casual because we do go on a uh
i go back to illinois and visit my folks for a week
and then we go out to the east coast to visit my husband's mom and family and we usually go to the beach while we're out there
so
uh in fact i was thinking this summer that since i'm doing summer school i haven't worn very many of those things
but i was thinking oh well i got to get them all together so to take them on our trip
oh how nice
i took i went through my closet this spring
and i i took some stuff out and put it in another closet in the guest bedroom because i'm so tired of looking over it
and it's all just a little bit too tight
but it isn't so much too tight
i mean i could easily well maybe not too easily
but i could lose that weight and then they would all fit fine
and you know
and there are things that i really don't want to get rid of you know i really want to keep them because they're nice
and so i thought well i'll put them in there
and then maybe i'll feel so bad that i can't wear them now
and i'll do something about it
but so far
oh that's funny
yeah
that's right
hey when you have kids you definitely have to have
you think they're [hinting] yeah
that's true
ooh
yeah
you'll be glad believe me
uh_huh
oh
it's just unreal the time though that it really gets the worst is uh is when the kids get old enough that they really care what they're wearing my kids are twelve and fifteen and uh you know they're both boys
so they're probably not as picky as if they were
girls
but on the other hand
they can be pretty picky and you know i mean i could get away with you know with it
not costing nearly as much
you know when they were littler because they didn't care
anything was fine
but you know now it has to be a certain kind of
certain kind of jeans and the the shoes are just about the worst
oh
jeez
i'm my son just came out the other day
and he's his what is it
i think they're [reebok] whatever my other son has nike [airs] at the moment
but these [reeboks] and i was thinking he bought them in march
it was early march he bought them
and they are demolished
i mean they are absolutely demolished there are pieces hanging off of them
the inside of the sole on the bottom has fallen out
i mean that's how worn out
they are
and they i bought them on a wonderful sale at mervyn's they must have been thirty five or so percent off
they cost sixty dollars on that much of a sale
and my husband and i were just talking you know it's i mean we're talking minimum of three of those a year
that's a hundred and eighty dollars a year
for his tennis shoes
you know
and my husband
oh it's just awful
and my husband bought i mean this year he bought a pair of of really good you know work leather nice men's dress shoes
and they were about a hundred and fifty dollars or you know something like that
and you know he said i felt terrible spending that amount of money on this pair of shoes he said
but i'll still be wearing them in ten years
and and he's
i mean we're talking a just a piece of rag so anyway before we go visit grandma
okay
let's see um when i was working i would wear um comfortable casual type clothes nothing real dressy
but um mostly um i do like to a shirts that are kind of longer
and um not real high high shoes i would say more
more more flat kind of shoes and something that would be comfortable to wear throughout the day nothing that would be too dressy
uh_huh
which is nice
that's that's
uh_huh
i felt the same way
well i work in a private high school and i always felt like i had to dress
i dress casually
but yet i dress a little bit
i dress totally dressy compared to what the kids came in to
what the kids looked like you know
i had to
right
so i had this and real conservative my taste runs real conservative i like white blouses with little peter pan [collars] and sweaters and [cardigans] and turtlenecks and just kind of um just very conservative kind of traditional clothes and nothing nothing at all [faddish]
i don't i get suits with dresses that i have that i had several years that i can pull out of my closet
and they will still be in style just as they were when i first bought them
you know that kind of stuff
yeah
yeah
and just just um
i do too
i do too
a lot of
uh_huh
well i have uh dark hair
so i do like to wear the real bright
i like bright royal blues and bright reds on on me
and that's kind of nice especially for the holidays it's fun to dress with all the bright colors
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
too much for you
uh_huh
huh okay
uh_huh
okay
yes
now browns
i stay away from browns
because i have dark eyes and dark hair so for me i
a lot of those
pretty shirt
uh_huh
that that i have a a little three year old that has very blonde hair
and i dress her with different colors that i never get to wear like the bright the bright um she looks really pretty in yellow just like a real bright lemon yellow
and um certain colors like that
and um i'll put on her
and they look real cute
um that's it
well well that's the that's the problem i think it's you know the way
you would like to dress and the way you could afford to dress is too different
yes
that's right
i see
i'm not even just working part time in this uh private school last year
um it was it was an expense just to get started to get the clothes
after being home with the kids and like i said it was real important because i was working around teenagers and i like you said had to set an example
and i
well wouldn't have felt comfortable wearing jeans although some of the teachers did once in a while that i don't i very rarely even just wear jeans at home you know i'm not comfortable
in them
yes
yes
that that is a big consideration if i have a a solid navy blue blazer i might you know go ahead and pick up a [plaid] shirt or something
and then maybe a solid or whatever to mix and match that
i sit there and really kind of i really have to take a long time to think about what to to get because like i said you have to
right
to make it right
and also adding some [accessaries] to different different things
i'm not a real um i don't like to wear really big earrings i kind of have a few gold earrings that are my favorites
and just little [pearls] kind of boring and conservative
no
they once in a while
i'd i'd try one on
and it would seem right
and then before i walked out the door
i'd have it off because it just didn't feel right
um i did until my company went bankrupt
yeah
now right now i haven't been able to locate a job down here in patterson it's kind of a small city
so i've been going to modesto which is larger
but it's not like being in the bay area where i came from
you know
but anyhow when i did work in the winter time i wore uh my wool skirts and sweaters and boots
because the bay area gets kind of chilly in the winter time
and um then in the summer time i just wore you know the polyester blouses and usually pants
and just uh heels you know
so uh where do you work at
oh okay
right
do you
i don't suppose you can wear pants
oh
because i never see anybody in the banks out here
it seems like i never see them with pants on
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
no
i haven't
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
isn't that uh_huh
uh_huh
um
yeah
that would be interesting to do um i worked for a trucking company
so we didn't really even have to dress up at all
if we didn't want to
we could wear pants all the time you know
but uh i just in the winter time i just like to wear boots
and you know the wool skirts and the sweaters and everything
but uh i've never gone to and had a you know
anything like that done to tell me exactly what color i would look best in
uh i know i don't look good in yellow
but i like pink and blue you know and red
but uh i just look in the mirror
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh very interesting
so do you have your do you like do you in dallas
do you wear wool in the winter time
or
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
and naturally it gets real hot in the summertime i suppose
yeah
yeah
yeah
it gets hot here in patterson in the summer time more so than it did in the bay area
you know
um
like here uh like um a hundred and twenty six miles from [fresno]
but in the valley north
right
right
uh_huh
oh i see
uh_huh
so you have been to california though
do you have
we're supposed to be talking about
hello
hello
hello
yeah
i am now
wonder what happened
oh really
i couldn't hear a thing
well
oh
gee
i was on a cordless when she called
but then i uh i never get it to work
so i had to go to my other phone
anyway we're supposed to be discussing clothing right
um
yeah
where do you work
oh you work for t i
oh okay
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i know what you mean
all right uh
yeah
i uh well i work for [lomas] mortgage and uh our office is so cold
i usually try to wear i wear suits most of the time except on friday we have casual day
i mean we can wear jeans i'm not a jeans [wearer] but i wear pants
but uh a lot of people in the office dress fairly casual most of the time
uh they do carry me through
yes
uh most of them i can wear all year
i just you know i just buy them they are uh leslie [fay] makes a [haberdashery] and uh i can even wash them in my washing machine
yeah
and uh so they're not too heavy for summer or winter or just anytime
so i i usually buy maybe a lighter color
you know like for the summer then i won't wear the real light ones in the winter
but
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
right
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that makes it nice
oh you are
well congratulations
oh
yeah
oh yeah
that's nice
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well our company is
our company allows jeans on friday uh everybody wears you know most everybody wears jeans
but they are kind of particular you know what kind of jeans or what kind of shirts you wear with them and you know they want you to look nice and uh everybody is pretty good
i i'm a student
and i work at [nu] skin so
yes
uh we're allowed to wear we we just can't wear jeans
uh every monday through friday we just have to wear you know nice slacks
or
uh just something that looks nice
and then on fridays and saturdays we can wear jeans
so
like jean day
uh it's pretty standard
i mean just more sweaters and stuff
of course in the winter
but
right
oh uh
uh_huh
oh really
and you don't find that gets too expensive
or
really
wow
uh_huh
that makes it really nice
uh_huh
does he have to wear suits and ties and um
uh i i rarely wear dresses
yeah
i mean it doesn't
it doesn't have to be that dressy guys have to wear ties at work
but shirts and ties at [nu] skin but other than that
oh no no no
but uh the guys seem to get to have to dress up a little more than the girls
for some reason
we can get away with more
uh no
we can't wear tennis shoes during the week either
yeah
we can't wear tennis shoes
but i it's pretty casual i i found
i mean it would be what i would wear to school anyways
most of the time
so
yeah
yeah
i well i work in the mornings from six thirty to ten thirty
so i get up pretty early
and then school comes after that
so i just don't bother to change for school unless i really want to be casual
but
how long have you been doing this t i
really
how did you find out about it
he's in is he in dallas
oh really
that's where i'm from
yeah
yeah
uh what is is he in a ward down there
or
sure
okay
uh i i like
yeah
i'm more into suits i think i'm more uh
yeah
more what's it called just uh
yeah
and oh what's the word i can't think of the word it's uh
did women uh have the more variety in this area right
are you saying that the that the uh teachers are wearing jeans
treated as if they're sloppy or treated as if they're uh peers
ooh
uh_huh
right
of course motivation is everything
and i suppose you're striving for [intimacy] on a intellectual level
it's really hard to figure out how you're going to do that
but of course we're trying to talk about dress and not teaching
well i am in a much more [conventional] position
i work as a uh white collar worker uh i'm a senior principal scientist at s r
i international
uh work with
speech technology
teaching teaching computers how to understand the speech in texas instruments oh yeah
i actually used
i used to be chief speech scientist at texas instruments
no
actually i try to stay behind the scenes which means i wear slacks and uh my own personal style
and it's it's variable and there are a lot of people who wear jeans
but i say probably most people uh wear dresses or slacks and uh wear the men wear uh uh probably most of them wear long sleeve shirts without ties
uh it's interesting
it's sort of silly and ironic not ironic but it's silly in in a sense that on [visitor] days which is are quite frequently people quite frequently dress up and they wear ties and coats and uh on [nonvisitor] days people dress down and they wear just slacks and dress shirts
right
and it it's not one of my dressing is not one of my main [obsessions] or [preoccupations] well i i buy a new shirt once a year whether i need it or not
well i don't pay much attention to it
now this this question did it relate to work or did it relate to to uh whatever
huh
i guess i'm a typical [oblivious] male in that respect
hello
hello did i reach the dallas area
yeah
my name is fernando
hey
how's it going
do you work for t i
north carolina state university
yeah
i'm getting a master's in computer science and computer engineering
um i took a voice i o course
well uh one of my teachers went to a to this conference up in bethesda maryland
and so he saw it there
and he just said you guys want to make some money and talk five minutes a day here you go
so
uh not originally
argentina
yeah
well i used to live up in new york and maryland
and i uh i like i like bigger cities
i like i like more populated areas because i used to live in [buenos] [aires] but they have ten million people
but uh this area is nice
it looks like it's got a lot of uh job opportunities
especially at research triangle park
and so it looks it looks well it's the third largest growing area in the country for businesses
yeah
yeah
no
north carolina state
yeah
no
the wolf pack yeah
no
we're we're not we're not the tar heels
why do you run
oh okay
my dad is too
yeah
yeah
it's nice
yeah
it's it's clothing
right
how you how you dress to go to work and how it changes from season to season
and from day to day
okay
okay
ready
i'm going to press the one
no
then then we say bye
and uh
well i i've got a [stopwatch] here
so i'll probably say you know it's like well we've been talking for five six minutes
so
okay
well uh we'll just open it
okay
i'll press the one ready
okay
okay
so
well you see since i don't work
i just go you know to class it all depends because i like to wear like sweat pants because it's more comfortable for me
but you know it's like when you're in school
you either wear [sweatpants] or jeans
yeah
yeah
yeah
okay
are they like t shirts
or are they
like do they have
oh okay
well well because how how hot
i mean like like in the coldest that it gets in winter down there
how much is it
yeah
yeah
that's
well it's basically you know it's like i got like a leather jacket or a you know
so i just put on a t shirt
and a leather jacket and i usually stay in class that way
and if not i would wear a sweatshirt underneath it
and then you know you'd but what happens is uh what i've seen here on campus it's very strange because a lot of black people
here they wear like dress pants and dress shirts to go everywhere
okay
and they wear either that or they wear dress pants and black turtlenecks or white turtlenecks and so the thing is you know is like i asked a guy you know why why do you wear that he goes well it costs me the same amount which is true because some dress pants you know cost me twenty five dollars which is the same as jeans
but um but basically all over here everywhere
everybody wears jeans and if not what the what the thing is that they're wearing now is sometimes you wear like shorts with [biker] pants underneath it which is yeah
where at
where at
oh okay
yeah
yeah
but the thing is when you started with t i
was it as big a company as it is now
yeah
yeah
i mean when
hello
you probably got wait calling
okay
well i guess i'm supposed to talk alone while
he's on the wait call about clothing right
so i don't know what to say i don't wear any clothing we're at [nudist] camp
we don't wear any clothes here
yeah
oh that's okay
yeah
was that in the seventies
no
no
but uh when it had gone up
yeah
yeah
i i i sort of remember that i'm only twenty two
but in the seventies
i heard you know t i was even making uh those little watches you know those those uh
l e d watches that you couldn't see in the sun
yeah
so
yeah
well they said that women like the the you know executive women or women that work whatever
they spend uh five hundred dollars on clothes a year
so but but for me
yeah
i mean women go all
i mean what i've seen like you know they like to wear something different every day
and for me it's like people know how i dress and we have you know like the gym here
they give you shirts right
which
which you use
and then you take back
they give you a clean one
and so sometimes you wear you know the shirts from from the gym every day of the week
the only thing is that you can tell them apart
because they have the year that they were bought in
so i mean you don't feel as bad because it's like they they give you different year sometimes you know
so you're wearing you know sometimes you're wearing eighty nine the other times
sometimes you're wearing ninety one the other times you're wearing you know eighty six
so it's okay you know
right
see when we take p e
you have to dress in the in p e clothes
but it is it's issued to any one that wants one that's in the university
well right now since i'm graduating i'm
well pat what do you wear to work
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
my my schedule
yeah
my [schedule's] pretty similar
i um i teach so on the days i teach
i teach a couple days a week
so
whenever i teach
i try and wear a tie
but uh but that's i wear normally just wear like [khaki] pants and a shirt and tie
i never wear a sport coat that's ridiculous
but then most of the time you know then i just have to uh i can wear jeans or or just casual clothes
i think they i think they [frown] on shorts and sneakers
but i think i could probably get away with jeans and sneakers uh
yeah
i could
well if i don't have to see students and uh i'm just in my lab
and no one sees me then i'm probably okay
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
well that makes sense
uh_huh
yeah
as long as you're clean and yeah
that makes a lot of sense
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that would that would uh_huh
yeah
and you don't have to worry about fashion and stuff too you know
buying nicer clothes and things
yeah
that makes a lot of sense
well you know my mother's a waitress and she has like three uniforms that she sort of wears in rotation
and she likes that you know
uh_huh
yeah
your your uh_huh
that's right
where the the uniform as as a waitress now your uniform really
it might be a little expensive
when you first buy it
but you know that's it doesn't it's made of polyester so it doesn't stain like cotton or wool would you know
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well that makes sense
yeah
that makes a lot of sense
uh_huh
that's
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh probably the people that probably the people that are prone towards getting dirty
yeah
with the type of job that you have you might be getting dirty either either manual label labor where you'll [perspire] heavily or uh or where you'll come in contact with uh oil and things
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's what
yeah
i find too um if you're a programmer do you get cold does your how's your air conditioning work
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh oh see
yeah
because my office is really heavily air conditioned
because i guess they they keep the air conditioning on all the time where they don't in a lot of the other offices because of the computers and um
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
see sometimes my air conditioning gets really cold
i think it's probably because my office is one of the only ones air conditioned in a a large area you know
probably probably that's why i get
because sometimes boy i'll get i'll freeze it's so cold in there
especially when it's ninety degrees outside
right
yeah
and blows on my legs man one time i left
i thought i was going to
i thought i was going to freeze the one day i wore shorts to the office
because i was just going to be in my lab
and i wanted to be comfortable because i thought the air conditioning would be all turned off you know
and jeez if it wasn't the air conditioner wasn't blowing it wasn't fifty five degrees
yeah
that's true
a lot of those nice looking legs
yeah
yeah
i was just laughing
it's funny that um we get clothing you know because uh i'm i'm in graduate school
i only work part time
and my wife uh we recently we decided we'd buy a sewing machine because that would be a good investment you know
and we could make clothes and save money so she's made me shorts
well of course you know she makes shorts and she says here i made you shorts and they're they're a nice material nice [checkered] [plaid] material here
but but she didn't put a fly in them
yeah
the pattern she bought didn't have a fly
so it's like well they're fine for her
but uh you know they're just everyday summer shorts you know
but there's no fly
yeah
they're not for a guy that really changes your the whole way you do your day
so i was laughing i thought that was funny you know because while i i was up at the office
and everybody says oh jeez
those new shorts i think they were laughing because they are sort of a wild color you know
but i was just crossing through to get my mail and stuff
uh_huh
yeah
that's probably true without being laughed out
yeah
i'm not i never i laugh at the wardrobe my father in law wears golf clothes
and it's the only time he puts on those funny clothes
and he doesn't wear those in the back yard or casually around
just when they go to play golf
they wear those funny clothes
that's true
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
but they have that dress code i you know i also know um e d s
uh e d s
i have some friends that interviewed with e d s and uh you know they interviewed while they were in college
so they didn't really have a suit with them
and the woman said to them
well your second interview would be here
but [du-] oh
and on that day i would say wear a suit because i guess they just had on a sport coat
and the one guy even had like um a gel in his hair you know his hair was sort of [slicked] back
you know which is popular with the kids and she says oh
and you know uh i wouldn't put the gel in my hair you know in other words you're to bore us a two or three piece suit with no gel in your hair you know and that way
she made it pretty clear during the you know the first interview how they were supposed to dress for the second interview you know
so i thought that was really funny too you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
i don't think my hair has probably changed in ten years
uh_huh
he he's into what
uh-oh
really
uh_huh
yeah
i see them i see the kids with the the things cut in their hair all the time
well you know my dad was the same way
i thought it was really funny back in the nineteen seventies
my brother came home with cowboy boots on
was growing up in pittsburgh
and my dad called
my brother tex for about the next four weeks
you know and other than calling him tex he barely talked to him because he was so angry he was wearing cowboy boots
yeah
i thought it was just so funny
you know my dad we're not in texas
it was very funny
you know and all that over a pair of cowboy boots
and it was finally my mother convinced him she you know the cowboy boots give you about uh an inch lift you know they sort of have a heavier heel
what
well what kind of job
do you have
uh_huh
oh okay
is that because you're a student
or
uh
oh okay
okay
well i'm a student
that's why i was asking
and uh i uh i haven't been working this semester
so i don't really have uh much to say about that
but i do work in the hospitals once a week
uh i
yeah
i have i wear a uniform a nursing uniform so i don't really have much choice
yeah
they they tend to be pretty expensive
uh yeah they should uh unless you just buy a few
and keep wearing those
all the time
and
yeah
and people tend to use [bleach] on them
because you know you want them to stay white
and that kind of [deteriorates] it a little bit
but uh i'm hoping mine my one uniform will last me a long time until i have to start working more days
and there's not much of a selection at least in my price range like styles or things of
yeah
yeah
so uh
oh you did
oh okay
that sure does
yeah
were you a receptionist
oh okay
yeah
definitely
uh_huh
sounds good
right
also the shoes are expensive
that's
yeah
that's really tough before i went back to school
i work as a uh what do you call it can't even remember it's been
so long
uh office administrator or whatever it one of those titles
uh sort of
and it was a more of a casual uh atmosphere
but i still wore dresses and things like that
so i mean it was for a uh non profit organization
so
right
yeah
i agree
i i really i totally agree
i have a friend that has a [knack] for looking really stylish but always comfortable
yeah
she's really good at doing that
exactly
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well she she you don't have to wear high heels to look good
yeah
she never wore high she's an engineer and she
never
yeah
she never wore high heels just flats and low low heels
uh_huh
more the classic look
yeah
see that doesn't have to be uncomfortable
yeah
but you're right
i think those things tend to be more expensive
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
because uh also you tend to those things don't go out of style
so much
and uh i find
right
yeah
and since i'm a student
i never buy fad clothes because i know they'll be out of style the next
season
and then i have to go buy more
so i just don't buy any
hello  
hey how you doing  
fernando  
wait  
let me turn off my stereo here  
because i've been like waiting like for about ten minutes to get connected to somebody  
yeah  
yeah  
what time is it over  
are you are you in dallas  
are you  
because every time i got through i went to dallas texas  
yeah  
i'm in north carolina  
on the other coast  
what  
yeah  
yeah  
it's uh  
i'm watching saturday night live here  
wait  
what did how how did you get to know about the t i thing  
what are you working on  
really  
i'm doing my masters in in computer science and computer engineering  
at north carolina state university  
uh i don't because uh i come from a lot a bigger city than this one  
and   i i'm in raleigh  
and  
yeah  
that area  
and it's really small  
all all you have is like towns built around universities  
like chapel hill  
yeah  
where you at  
oh okay  
so so i mean it's like this this town probably has like two hundred and fifty thousand people  
and that's about it  
yeah  
oh okay  
so so where do you go  
do you go to berkeley  
oh okay  
because uh i was looking at at the   doctorate degree in computer science center at berkeley  
and they're asking like for a uh g p a of like three point seven or something   like that  
and like they're looking like for uh g r e like ninety nine percentile and this and that  
and it's like  
yeah  
i know  
that's why that's why i didn't apply  
i mean it was like   for me it was like practically impossible to get between like ninety and   ninety nine percentile on the on the [verbal] part  
yeah  
so are are you going to go for your doctorate  
yeah  
when do you get out  
oh okay  
but uh but what if they pay for it  
what if they pay for  
yeah  
because i know i know a couple of people here that work for uh the army uh  
i think i think they're military  
but i   mean the guy is still in  
and uh uh he works over in maryland  
and so he's doing his masters here  
they gave him like a scholarship like for a year  
and he's doing it in like in a year and a summer  
and so he's getting that  
and uh   they said like they got a lot of benefits and that  
that's why you want to join  
but uh this guy  
i mean you can earn a lot more money  
so you say  
i go why you still there if you can earn a lot more money once you've get your your your masters  
they go well they got a lot of benefits that would go with it  
so  
yeah  
but i mean i mean you  
the  
once you get your masters you can be earning between anywhere between like thirty seven forty five thousand a year  
and   and that's not what they're paying  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
but that's uh  
yeah  
it's like   it's like uh in i b m  
in i b m you can get certain points  
and uh everyone's a manager  
but nobody can get one more point to become you know like whatever you need to earn so much money  
yeah  
it's like  
no  
i i mean i b m is like  
there's a joke about i b m which says you know it's like uh  
all all the major companies get into a a boating race right  
and so i b m says well we have we have to have a team right  
and then they come in last  
and they have this whole team you know analyze why they came in last right because the person asked for it  
saying  
he goes uh the problem was that there were five people saying row row row and one person [rowing] right  
so he goes have you come up with a uh have you come up with a solution  
they go yeah  
change the [rower]  
you know it's like everyone's a   manager  
but you know it's like   only use like one person does the work  
so  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
well that's the way it works  
i mean that's that's why they're having problems  
i mean everyone's a manager  
and  
yeah  
i mean it's like it's like the people that actually do the work there   are uh very few  
and then the other people just plan it you know  
it's like it's like have you have   have you ever seen the commercial like for federal express where the with uh the think tank   you know  
like all these people are just standing sitting around just going you know like what shall we do  
has anybody thought of anything  
no  
and then this guy from federal federal express comes along  
they go what's that this track which it's going around the world  
and they can tell you where your package is anywhere any time  
and so it's like the same thing with i b m you know  
so they have this think tank  
and they got to come up with ideas  
but see uh the the thing is that i b m is so [stabilized] that everybody will buy their stuff  
yeah  
and it fails  
and you're dead  
yeah  
well i b m doesn't fire anybody  
because   uh what they do is they they put you in a different job   which you actually are like sitting around not doing anything  
so you quit  
i mean that's their policy  
they never fire anybody unless you're caught doing something [illegally]  
yeah  
like if you're stealing something or doing anything like that  
but they won't let you off  
what they'll do is like  
suppose you know like you're a manager  
so they'll put   you into keeping up the paper you know  
it's like how much paper is going in  
and then you   say that's not my job  
so you quit  
right  
right  
right  
no  
but i mean it's like it's like they they have just like different policy  
i don't know  
my dad works for them  
but it's like i b m like never in their commercials they never put down any other company you know  
it's like   they won't say  
yeah  
because see what happens is they have a good backup policy  
and anybody can fix it  
and so that's what you're going to go for  
and and you know it's like for example like leading edge  
have you ever heard of leading edge  
what  
they they made like uh small personal computers  
i don't know  
i don't know  
but what they do is what they did i don't know is buy all the parts that i b m would throw away   and build an i b m p c with all the parts that i b m would throw away  
yeah  
for example you test a chip  
it can't last seven years  
but it can last five  
i b m says let's throw it away  
leading edge will say we'll buy it from you  
and so that's  
i mean they're still around i think  
so that's what they do  
they buy all all the things that i b m throws away  
and they and that's why they're so compatible   because i mean  
and by the time you have computer for five years you're going to throw it away anyway you know  
well i mean there's like well  
in a way you realize  
i mean one one of my teachers got this computer which you know  
it's like uh voice uh [synthesizing] stuff  
and he got that  
he said you know it's like uh  
i was testing it  
and it was wonderful  
and then when you tried to erase and correct you know all the errors in your voice it takes up all your memory  
and i want more you know  
and it's like jesus christ you know  
it's like why do you want more  
because it's like one second of recording  
i mean you put into wave  
and you want to correct the errors into wave  
it takes so much  
i mean it's like  
of course it does  
i mean by the times it [transforms] into wave by mark off model  
and you put it in there  
and you want to correct those  
and then you know you're trying to make the the wave smooth  
so you can approximately  
of course it's going to take a lot  
imagine imagine   what it is for us to make mark off models you know  
it's like jesus christ  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well like they say like nobody can get enough you know  
it's like once you have something  
and it's like  
i was watching this program on t v yesterday  
in nineteen seventy six   nasa came up with three d graphics  
right  
and they were showing this like three d three d graphics view of like  
what  
no  
no  
no  
this is like this is like   video game stuff  
okay  
but the only thing was that it was just lines  
okay  
like if you  
hello  
not bad  
not bad  
what's your name  
fernando  
my name is nick  
sure  
really  
[phew]  
man i'm  
no  
no  
i'm in detroit  
or not detroit i'm in uh california  
yeah  
i  
really  
oh  
well you're on the uh  
let's see  
yeah  
twenty one  
yeah  
shoot man it's what midnight almost  
yeah  
okay  
all right  
well i guess we're supposed to talk  
what about  
credit card  
oh one of my instructors uh said that they were doing something like this  
and  
a a masters in uh information systems  
yeah  
where at  
hey  
how do you like it out there  
yeah  
oh  
raleigh durham  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so it it's basically a bunch of small towns anyway  
kind of [quaint] little towns  
but they   don't have a whole lot there  
uh well i'm in monterey california right now  
yeah  
two hundred fifty  
okay  
it it's it's a lot bigger than monterey is  
but we're just uh just south of uh san jose and san francisco  
and it's only a couple of hours away or a hour away to a you know to a large city  
no  
no  
i go to the it's the naval [postgraduate] school out here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's what they look for  
whether or not they get it is hard to say  
yeah  
yeah  
it's pretty tough  
it's pretty tough  
i  
uh let's face it you know  
and you know i you know did the you know  
as far as  
i found it a lot of times with regards to education you know the school only takes you so far you know  
it's what you do   you know  
so uh i don't lose any sleep sleep over stuff like that  
probably not  
see i'm in the navy  
and uh you know most of the navy funds that i probably won't do it until i  
if i do do it it will be after i get out of the navy  
oh probably be another twelve years  
oh you know i like what i'm doing right now  
excuse me  
if they pay for a p h d  
[nah]  
they won't pay for it  
they've i think they have maybe two people a year go get get their p h d  
yeah  
they [civilians] or uh military  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well a lot of times it's you know a lot of times it's not the money that keeps that keeps people in  
they they like what they're doing  
they you know they feel good about what they're doing  
that type of thing  
it's more  
uh_huh  
oh easily  
i'm sure  
no  
well it depends on what rank you are of course  
i mean like i say if you're if you're you know if you're at an upper level in the rank category you know you're probably pulling down close to seventy grand a year  
yeah  
those are few and far between though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
since i imagine it's fairly competitive  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
too many chiefs and not enough indians  
yeah  
i don't know  
that can be that that can really slow you down  
i didn't realize that  
uh_huh  
push paper around  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
they've got a they've got basically a uh you know a lock on a lot of the market  
and a lot of times you figure you know with the support that they provide you know  
people generally go with that because they figure that the you know you probably won't get fired for getting i b m material  
where's if you try something different they'll   they'll say yeah  
why didn't you buy why didn't you try something more [mainline]  
no  
uh_huh  
uh  
illegal or something like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so in other words that's the way they force   people out  
that's why they can say you know there's no layoff   policy  
but it they don't really say that you know  
you're you're always going to have great career   conditions  
hey that's kind of sad  
no  
well they're the standard right now  
or as far as that goes you know people think of computers they think of i b m a lot of times  
and the main  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know that's that's a that's a big thing  
yeah  
they are out of korea right  
leading edge  
don't they  
yeah  
small p c  
they're out of korea right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
okay  
yeah  
i've seen well i've seen them around anyway you know  
uh_huh  
most people do  
or they have to anyway  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
it's amazing  
yeah  
well when you get you know when you get right down to it the uh the more they can do for you the more uh like i say the more the more memory they're going to require  
yeah  
both both in terms in ram as well as uh you know standard   memory or disk disk base  
so  
oh yeah  
you find out more  
yeah  
uh_huh  
like the deal  
like a hologram  
with just graphics on on a  
okay  
what are you afraid of with them  
yes  
well that's very can be very very true  
well that's the idea  
they figure that   if they give you card   at no charge for a whole year that you will use it  
and  
absolutely  
well the other thing of course is the fact that they hope   you will not pay your bill at the end of the month   so that you would be paying interest  
i use mine a great deal um for groceries for everything that i can and   then just write one check at the end of the month   for the entire thing  
right  
that's all right  
sounds like you have a little one there  
oh you have  
great  
how old are they  
oh boy those are two very active ages  
uh_huh  
well uh do you uh do you ever use the a t m machines  
well i find it a great use from the standpoint that you don't have to continue to write checks   in order to get cash  
oh that helps  
right  
well the the other thing some people are not aware of is they will use their a their credit card like their visa or their mastercard for cash  
and when they do that they begin paying interest right from that very day on  
yeah right  
absolutely  
because they   they figure that that's correct  
the idea is to use their money  
and uh during that whole month and   then pay it at the end of the month  
uh_huh  
right  
well i think that's the only thing you can do is just say no and mean no and   not be tempted  
well  
oh absolutely  
preapproved  
that's their favorite word  
i think so you're right  
well it's interesting uh that uh   people have the generally the same view   of credit cards   no matter where you go  
that much stuff  
right  
well and some people use one credit card to pay for another credit card they own  
and i mean that does nothing but [exacerbate] the entire problem  
that's right  
that's right  
well it's been enjoyable talking with you  
right  
well take good care  
take care of your little ones  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
well um with credit cards is me i uh i try to get maybe just one or two  
i don't i don't like having credit cards for every store  
i i uh i just don't like them  
what am i afraid of  
um i don't know if i'm really afraid of spending too much  
i just uh don't think that i need them you know  
i  
uh they are tempting at times  
but i i just you know sometimes i just don't like everybody knowing everything about me you know  
so  
so and you know everybody just gives you a credit card just so you'll spend money  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
see they make money off of it whether you use it or not  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's what i do  
that's what i do  
just a second  
sorry  
i have two little ones  
yes  
yeah  
so  
um four and two and half  
yes  
so yeah  
um i'm i'm like you  
i i use my only use my credit card for um you know when i you know  
i just use it whenever i feel like i don't want to write a check  
and then but i don't charge anything that i can't payoff at the end of the month  
so  
no  
i never do  
my husband does at work just to get cash out  
but uh i take the checkbook  
so i you know i just if i need cash i just tell him  
and he gets it out  
and i don't even think i know my number  
uh_huh  
that's right  
see we he couldn't do without it but you know since he can just do it right there at work   for nothing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you're right  
and that's kind of silly  
yeah  
your [defeating] the purpose  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i get i get at least one or two a week   people you know sending me a credit card or calling me on the phone and i just say i don't want it  
because i  
yeah  
it's like   i'd like to know where they determine that i'm such a good credit risk that they can go and say you get this much credit line you know  
you've already been preapproved  
yes  
everybody in the country is preapproved i think  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then some people they get so wrapped up in them that they find you know one day they find wow i didn't realize i had this much   you know i'd spent this much money  
and then they can't meet the minimum monthly payments on it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it does because you're you know you you're you know you're just costing yourself more money because you if you can't make the monthly the minimum payment you're paying interest   again  
so  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
it's enjoyable talking with seeing that somebody feels the same way  
so well  
you you too  
good luck  
bye bye  
okay  
i was trying to get my children quiet for a minute  
well credit cards boy that's an easy topic  
isn't it  
oh yes  
yes  
i guess i've had some good experience and some bad experience with them  
uh_huh  
well i do fairly good until i go in the store and i see something i want   you know   not need want  
there's a big difference there  
but most of mine that i use is strictly gasoline  
uh_huh  
oh it sure is   especially when you work out of town and everything that way  
at least that's for me  
yeah  
but yeah  
i've i've talked to some who's really had some bad experience  
and kind of knock on wood i haven't yet not bad  
you know i just i'm just shocked at the end of the month   to see what damage i have did  
but   i try to keep it pretty reasonable  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and then they have bad drawbacks too   i mean high interest  
it's like paying twice  
yes  
so  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yes  
uh we used to have you know like several  
but right now we're just more or less at american express   you know  
and that way we can go ahead and pay it off when it comes in  
yeah  
pay fifteen  
yeah  
yes  
i know  
yeah  
and when you pay fifteen dollars a month it sure takes a long time  
it sure does  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
and maybe we'll get to talk again  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
okay  
yes  
it is  
it's one we all hold dear and near i'm sure  
yeah  
most of mine's been pretty good although i'm i guess i'm like a lot of other people now  
i'm trying to to pay off my credit cards  
and and uh i've done pretty good at it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
there is a big difference  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i i do that  
i do that  
but the rest like i said the rest of them i've been trying to to pay off   and uh get back on a cash basis except for gas  
it's too easy to to run into the gas station  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
well that's  
yeah  
yeah  
well i've been pretty lucky in that respect  
i don't charge like i say i've i been trying to to not charge except for emergencies  
and uh so but i haven't really had any bad problems with credit cards  
there's you know  
they have uh wonderful features  
they're there when you need them   you know like in emergencies or whatever  
yeah  
it's it's awfully easy  
that's true  
that's true  
i try to  
i did switch to one uh sponsored by the credit union though that seems to be a pretty low interest   yeah compared to some of the other ones  
and you don't have an annual fee there  
and that helps  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's one way to do it because that that forces you to pay for it   instead of saying well i'll just   pay on it this month  
and  
yeah  
takes a long time  
that's right  
and now without the benefits of being able to deduct interest off off your income tax   that's you know  
of course it's been going down for a number of years  
but this is the last year you can take anything  
so  
so  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
so do you have any credit cards  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i have one card  
and i try not to use it  
but   right now it's maxed out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i have uh  
the thing that bothers me worse than the credit cards i think is uh you mentioned the gasoline credit card  
i don't have that  
but i've got you know one of the the the instant teller cards   that you can use for point of sale purchases  
and we use that usually to buy gasoline  
and it's just   it's really amazing how quickly that goes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what they've they've talked about it  
course it [eliminates] any waiting period  
god help those people who have to float checks occasionally   because you won't be able to with that  
no  
oh it was well  
they consider it to be the same as cash   well cause it actually is  
yeah  
it's better than cash  
they don't even have to deposit it  
it just goes straight in there  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i'm so glad he told me that when that they they got to such a point with their credit cards they didn't want to cut them up because they were afraid sometime they might actually need them  
they paid them off  
and then they stuck them in a thing of water and froze them  
she said at least before she could use them she'd have to thaw them out  
i mean that's funny  
yeah  
yeah  
i i want to still have just one   just in case  
but i'd   sure want to get the get it paid down and   not use it for a while  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well our our limit is you know fairly low  
and uh so that's that's one thing that's good  
oh i've got another call  
okay  
all right  
bye bye  
yes  
i do  
i keep uh i have an american express and a visa card that i keep you know kind of for emergency purposes  
and i have you know i use a gasoline credit card which i you know pay off   every every month  
but i've i've gotten rid of all of the credit cards you know that i possibly could  
and my balances are practically zero on the ones that i have  
especially since you know it's no longer after this year  
or after tax year nineteen ninety there's no deductions for you know credit card interest that you pay  
so it's a you know gosh  
credit cards run what anywhere from up to eighteen nineteen percent i guess  
it's just a bad deal  
course there are emergencies you know that you you know probably need to have a card  
uh_huh  
that's that's probably enough  
absolutely  
it's it's very easy to you know to do that or you know to abuse it  
it really is  
it's so easy to pull out the plastic  
but we're trying our best not to not to add any you know credit card debt to our structure here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure you're right  
i don't i don't i don't participate in that  
but you know a lot of folks do  
yeah  
at least with the uh gasoline company credit cards you have you know up to thirty twenty five thirty days you know interest free for it  
but you know the instant thing may be may may be the way of the future to you know to replace checks and every other thing  
yeah  
it certainly does  
absolutely  
that's right  
do you get any sort of discount when you use a card like that  
i see  
i see  
i see  
it certainly is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
no returned checks or anything  
yeah  
no  
i i understand it's becoming you know the popular thing to do  
we're not participating in that particular program at the moment  
and i don't really perceive doing it unless we absolutely have to  
but uh i have in times past gotten into a bit of trouble with credit cards  
it's just you know too easy to do  
that's right  
well that's a novel idea  
yeah  
that would cause you think a little while wouldn't it  
that may not be a bad idea  
but i'm kind of getting a little more leery of credit cards you know as time goes by  
unless you just absolutely have to  
now there are times when you'd   at least think you do anyway  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
my wife and i really i guess are fortunate  
we're really not compulsive [shoppers] you know  
we we plan purchases you know pretty well you know watch for the best buys things like that  
but uh some people have a real problem with it  
uh_huh  
sure  
absolutely  
yeah  
oh i'm sorry  
was nice talking to you  
take care  
bye bye  
well how many credit cards do you have  
sounds like we have no conflict  
we had  
for a while i was carrying one card  
and my wife was carrying a different one  
and since the slips all look alike uh you [commingle] them  
and then you get the statement  
and you try to sort them out uh  
and it uh it caused more confusion about it  
i finally said gee this is kind of a waste of time  
and then when a t and t came along and offered a free one uh i accepted that  
and we've been using that one  
uh the interesting thing is is that uh the amount of money you can can run up on them  
i don't know  
do you know any people that run up big big bills  
well did um were you able to get one while you're in college  
just curious because i have a son that's a senior this year  
and he's heading off with any kind of luck  
but there has been  
i've had a couple of ads for for for to provide a card for a college student  
uh what do you think about the idea of providing one for somebody like that  
well that that that i guess from the from the card [issuer] uh that  
since since it's it's in the parent gets it for them that really the parent becomes the one that's responsible  
but it's  
yes  
it's whether the parent wants to take the risk  
yeah  
to to go run up a big bill  
and the thing is there some advantages if he got off   some place and stranded  
i i'm i'm leaning towards doing it   for for   a convenience  
yeah  
and the idea that you know if he got in trouble there's some some ways of getting out and that he doesn't have to carry cash  
the uh  
i i like the idea of credit cards that uh i don't i don't i don't carry cash around and and uh i don't even carry checks around  
i let my wife take the checkbook  
and she writes the checks  
and i record them  
so it's uh it's uh it's but it's interesting that uh the people that can that can uh the amounts of money you can run up on on credit cards  
and uh i i had recently had some dealings with a fellow that  
they had run up he was making oh considered a modest salary for an engineer  
and he had run up uh more than a years salary in in various debts to  
and he wound up declaring bankruptcy  
but there  
it it's hard to believe that you'd run up twenty thirty thousand dollars of uh  
well it was a combination of things   he had  
there were there were several credit cards  
and then there were several other businesses  
but uh i i guess what's interesting have you seen the the the the ads where they're offering to extend payments from uh things like uh like the credit union's offering  
yes  
yeah  
the interesting thing about that is is that uh that that they're encouraging you to incur more incur more debt  
and  
and they make more money if you extend your loan  
yes  
and they know that people own a car that new unless absolutely die of service  
they're not going to keep on if the car were older  
the interesting thing about it is is that from a uh uh an economy standpoint or in economics  
i i thinks it's i think it's poor poor uh economics to to carry all that consumer debt   at least from a tax standpoint  
so it's interesting that that the american public is encouraged to incur all that debt and then next year none of it will be deductible  
and this year it's ten percent or so  
it's uh it's interesting that that uh they encourage us to do things  
i think ten percent  
yes  
of your of your consumer credit  
oh if you had a thousand dollars that means there's another hundred dollar deduction i've given you  
yeah  
it's on uh yeah  
yeah  
on the the  
there's there's there's a place for consumer debt  
and then you take ten percent of it  
on the  
oh okay  
it's on schedule um   schedule a under uh  
well it's the same place it's the same place you put uh interest  
but but see that's what that's what makes texas [squirrelly] laws that you can't you can't take out a a second mortgage like some states where you can take out the mortgage and declare that  
and so uh it's fully deductible  
the laws are a little [squirrelly]  
but it basically comes down to  
it's not in your best interest to borrow money from a tax standpoint  
but uh anyway  
sounds like you're you're very very financially responsible  
it's uh   that's uh  
there're a lot of people who really run  
my boss drives quite a ways to work  
and he's got just enormous debts  
and he's  
but i mean what do you say it's like [shucks] boss i'm sure sorry you've got all that debt  
well he's had had two kids in college and and this kind of thing  
and that  
i think that the whole credit card issue i think they certainly encourage people to run up the debts  
and but i agree with you  
i don't i my debts  
well i did buy a new house last summer  
it's it's remarkable how many people as soon as they get out of college buy a new car  
and that uh apparently that's been going on for a really long time  
i didn't do it  
i i bought a second hand car when i was the middle of my senior year  
yep  
miscellaneous things like food and   other things  
these habits you get into eating  
and and uh it's it's it's amazing how it what you learn  
well anything else good to say about credit cards  
i might just  
you don't have to carry the cash  
and and uh and it's it's it's certainly accepted more places than the places you know  
it's hard to cash a check if you're out of state  
and  
yeah  
they don't allow they don't do  
yeah  
carry all that cash with you  
well you know they they   they've started towards a little bit of the debit card  
have you seen the debit cards where they actually debit your account when you  
yeah  
and i think that's where  
yeah  
i've seen a couple  
although the  
so many of the grocery stores don't do that because of the the time frame which they get paid in general  
that uh  
they  
i've seen checks deposited the very next day i mean cleared my account the next day  
my wife will write a check for groceries  
and you know almost  
well i guess it's the day after uh  
technically it's two days  
but they took that check and [scurried] it to the bank  
and the bank [scurried] it back to my account  
and you thought there'd be just a little bit of float  
but apparently that's why the uh the uh the uh grocery stores are reluctant to do that because their volume that is quite high  
and they have uh  
the [costability] of the cash flow is a big issue for them  
anyway  
well it's good talking to you  
maybe we'll get across we'll cross paths again  
good night  
um i've only i've got about four maybe  
i try to limit them because i well one i don't use them too much  
and i use my visa just for for about everything  
and i pay it all off  
so i try not to  
i just use it for free money for thirty days basically  
i'm i'm you know i'm in the age group you get out of college  
and i think a lot of these people have them maxed out  
um i don't think i ever tried  
um well  
yeah  
i i you know  
it's you know feasible  
i mean i know a lot of college kids who have them you know who had them but just depends  
yeah  
so basically if you want to take the risk  
it's your risk  
do you trust your your son  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'd say you know have one with you know   at least a thousand dollar credit limit or something  
uh_huh  
the the extended loan payment for your car  
yeah  
i saw that  
well it's it's it's business  
and they're making money off that  
yeah  
and and it's so it's business  
so and you notice that they're they're only going to do it to like cars that are one or two years old  
and so they've already shifted the risk  
if they assume that car then they just have to sell it themselves  
and they'll recover the loan  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh  
what now what's ten percent we can deduct  
i didn't know that  
i didn't think you could  
any thing on a loan or   i mean a mortgage i know you can  
oh i've never [itemized] yet  
so maybe that's   schedule a or  
yeah  
yeah  
i try i i really do i just try to stay out of debt  
and i and i use my visa for for as much as i can  
and i pay it all off  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
hell i took a five year note out on my car when i right when i got out of college  
and uh i'll never do that again  
i still got a couple of years on it to go  
and i'm  
well you you think you're starting out well until you start paying all those bills   uh apartment rent  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
um  
you know they're convenient you know  
that's probably one big thing about them  
and uh  
yeah  
well i was used to using my credit card like at skaggs [alpha] beta in dallas and stuff  
and now i'm out here in phoenix  
they they  
none of these grocery stores take any credit cards  
so now i have to carry cash when i go to the grocery store which is new to me you know  
i got to have sixty bucks on me or something  
so uh   that was interesting cause i always you know  
you   didn't have to worry about carrying that much unless i knew i  
yeah  
i've heard about them  
that's mostly locally  
the banks will line up with uh  
yeah  
all righty  
all righty  
take it easy  
all right  
uh_huh  
um i wish i had  
well i  
it was done for me after a while  
i had a uh i had a business going  
and this was back in the eighties  
i don't know if you remember the gold and silver prices and all that  
but uh i had a coin shop  
and everything was going great while gold and silver was up  
and it started falling  
so i started paying expenses and stuff on my credit cards  
and things got worse and worse  
and finally boom  
yep  
yeah  
it was  
i ended up going into you know  
it was one of those things uh  
oh it'll get better next week you know  
things will pick up  
and so there i was in old bankruptcy court  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i was buying from other dealers  
and uh you know they take payment any way they can get it  
yeah  
course on on stuff that i was on merchandise that i was buying on cards it was i was getting the money back  
because i was selling it  
i wasn't buying you know just to hold onto it  
uh but it was things like you know rent and phone bills and advertising and all that other good stuff that ate them all up  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's the way they suck you in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well just today in the mail i got uh i got got my guaranteed acceptance by uh american express  
yeah  
yeah  
as soon as you're a graduate student they get your name  
and uh course i guess i guess i've been [purged] from their records  
i used to have an american express  
uh back when i had my business i got one  
and they they goofed up bad on my on my very first bill  
because i was using the american express strictly for the travel expenses  
and the bill would come in  
and i'd pay it  
and the very first bill i paid it  
and then i got this nasty letter from them saying you're [overdue] pay  
so i said well it just crossed in the mail  
so i didn't do anything about it  
two weeks later i get another letter even [nastier]  
and said we're going to turn this over to our attorneys if you don't pay  
and i looked at that  
and i said uh_huh  
so by this time my checks had come back from the bank  
so i made a copy of the check that they had [cashed]   attached it to their letter and sent them a nasty letter with the card cut in little bitty pieces saying thanks but no thanks  
yeah  
they were i tell you  
they don't talk about they're charging that enormous fee every year  
it's up to fifty five on the gold card  
it's eighty five for the optima  
or i'm sorry no  

no  

yeah  
for the green card  
well now that's the card see  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's um  
well of course on the green card you have to pay it when the bill comes in so there isn't any  
but on the optima card it's  
um let's see right now it's running at about  
it's not too bad  
it's actually it's about sixteen and a half percent which is pretty good as far as credit cards go  
well they're dangerous  
huh_uh  
mine don't either  
mine don't either  
they uh  
my mom has a uh has a mastercard and a visa card  
and that's it  
yeah  
yeah  
now i i do use gas cards  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
plastic is just too easy  
i mean   that's the that's the whole problem with it  
um  
yeah  
sure  
naturally  
that's  
i got into all kinds of trouble doing that  
well   having having been out of the credit game for some years now i've gotten used to either paying in cash or not getting it  
and uh  
well it is  
but i i i'm kind of uh grateful for the experience because it's taught me a lot of restraint  
yeah  
exactly  
i i uh i just went out and got a new v c r yesterday with cash  
and it it's  
no  
i wish i did  
yeah  
i could use a discount  
i have to wait for things to go on sale  
yeah  
especially on electronic goods  
especially now  
circuit city  
yeah  
they they're not their prices aren't that terrific  
they they used to be  
but they've gotten they've got to pay for all that national advertising now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're they're all over the country now  
they they used to be good  
i remember when they first opened up  
they did have good bargains  
i don't know if you have a place there called uh  
or you probably have something similar  
we call it service merchandise  
you got service merchandise  
yeah  
it used to be service merchandise was the place to go  
and uh circuit city came along  
and that was the place to go to get your t v and washer and dryers and refrigerators and all that  
and then after the years went by they just sort of kept creeping up on price  
and actually service merchandise is cheaper than them now  
so  
so much for circuit city  
i don't  
i'm a graduate student  
i'm a professional student  
it is  
it's great  
it is great  
i love it  
n c state  
uh north carolina state  
not yet  
ours don't ours doesn't start until uh next week  
where am i  
what do you mean where  
oh  
in raleigh  
little  
the [burgeoning] [metropolis] of raleigh  
what a dead place  
yeah  
i've got a nice little business at home  
and i sit around and tinker with that most of the time  
um uh human factors  
not a thing  
it's it's really looking at systems and design systems and seeing how people interact with them  
it's well it's more psychology and engineering  
uh  
my my master's is in industrial engineering  
yeah  
p h d in human factors  
well  
oh yeah  
i b m uh  
i mean uh a lot of people use human factors  
folks  
but i b m is what i'm looking at right now  
they might be  
but not at not at the human factors level  
they they're  
no  
as a matter of fact the i b m right here or in [carey] which is a little suburb of raleigh just just hired one more human factors person  
doggone it  
if they'd just waited a little bit longer it could have been  
me   i'm i'm i'm going into or going into the uh dissertation this summer  
uh i'm going to start this summer  
i probably won't finish it until the end of the year  
but uh i'm i'm trying to get a uh [intern] position with i b m right now so that i can find an area to do my dissertation in  
it's hard finding an area to do a dissertation in this field  
yeah  
that's  
that and and it's it's limited application in some respects  
um in the area that we're in here there's a lot of places that use human factors people  
most  
well like i told you before  
and you're talking about credit cards  
we put ours up  
i mean i had a delightful evening one night cutting a bunch of those suckers up  
well you should try it  
yeah  
you lost your business  
oh [gol]  
what a nightmare  
well you weren't charging gold and silver were you  
you can't do that can you  
oh you can  
oh that's a nightmare  
uh_huh  
well i remember before i got married  
you know when you graduate from college they'll send you all those   credit card applications   you know  
of course you fill them all out because you're honored  
and uh i had stuff for like [sanger] harris  
and you know it got up like to couple of hundred dollars  
and i thought well that's okay cause all they wanted was ten dollars a month  
right  
i wasn't thinking a thing about it  
yeah  
i was just stupid  
and every time they had a sale there i was  
because you know got get such good bargains  
and i don't know  
oh yeah  
we've been getting those  
i went back to school and got my master's  
and they started sending those things to me again  
yeah  
they did  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
turned out they weren't [cheeky]  
so what is it now  
what do you mean fifty five  
you mean fifty five dollars  
but then what's the interest  
and interest is like eighteen or something  
yeah  
well credit cards  
you know my parents don't hardly use them  
i've got all my gas cards because i don't want to carry money around  
i'll do that  
now impact is kind of bad too though  
you know especially if you get forget to record those little suckers  
uh_huh  
well and you're tempted if you've got cash a little bit of cash and you don't have enough for the purchase right  
of course you got to charge it and keep your cash  
what are you saying  
oh my husband says i might buy it  
but i i don't really usually consider that an option  
maybe that's how we got in trouble  
yeah  
but it's hard isn't it  
well it makes you feel good when you whip out the cash instead of your plastic  
with cash  
do you work with t i  
no  
yeah  
you could have got a discount couldn't you  
but there's always a sale  
yeah  
what is that thing i saw  
circuit circuit world or something  
circuit city  
have you been in there  
oh it's national  
i think i've seen two around dallas  
well what else  
yeah  
in garland  
uh_huh  
so  
so okay  
what else can we talk about  
who do you work for  
sounds wonderful  
we were talking about that just today  
we could be just lifelong students  
where are you going to school  
what's that  
so you're on spring break  
so where are you  
yeah  
oh okay  
is it  
so what are you getting your degree in  
and what do you do with it  
well what is it  
so it's sociology  
so you're working on your doctorate  
oh lord  
oh that will that will sound wonderful won't it  
get you a little [plaque]  
aren't aren't they laying off several thousand people  
well i heard it on the news today  
i could swear it was i b m  
um  
how much longer do you have  
and get that done this summer  
ooh  
because you  
why  
there has been so much work done already  
okay um  
let's see  
how do you feel about credit cards  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
wow  
right  
well we uh me and my wife when when we have like extra money that we know we're going to have and we can put it in our budget yeah we'll we'll use it  
but like last year i think we paid  
i think it was like twenty something cents interest   on our visa  
and i think this this year we uh i think we used it for christmas  
and we got caught just a few days on our grace period  
and uh so we'll pay a little interest this year but maybe two dollars  
but we don't like to do that at all  
and you know we i think we feel about the same way you do real strongly  
we uh we have several credit cards though  
we have a gas card our visa and then of course the american express  
and i think we have a couple of department stores  
but we use it the same way  
and uh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
it's it's not uncommon for us to have paid it before we even get the bill  
that's usually how we do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
that's good  
i've i don't think we've gone that far   to pay it in you know in advance before we spend it  
but i guess if you [foresaw] that you were going to have to use it that like that   that may be good  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
wow  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
especially  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's good  
oh from the dallas area  
oh really  
wow  
do you work for t i  
well really  
um i wonder how t i got g t e involved  
oh okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you have a very um very  
what's the word  
your your speech is very exact  
oh really  
wow  
yeah  
right  
i work in  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we talked for a good eight minutes about the subject  
so i think you get ten  
so i think we're okay  
well you too  
same here  
bye  
personally i do not care for them uh although i find them a necessity in business and so forth  
i i try to [refrain] from their use as much as possible um for a number of reasons one of which is the you know extreme interest rate on most of them  
the one i use uh of course for mostly only for business purposes is uh you know american express  
and uh i'm not i'm not terribly in favor of them  
not for my own personal uh point of view  
plus it uh has you know from an economic point of view it has increased our debt   tremendously   to the tune of somewhere on the order of five to ten billion i believe  
uh at least that's one number for this range of numbers i have i have heard  
do you use them frequently  
or  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
i find the one i use mostly uh  
aside from the american express i do use my sears card  
but uh i try as with the american express i try to pay it you know as it comes in  
so uh  
i know when i travel or when i used to travel overseas quite a bit what i would do on my american express card is before i would before i left i would mail a check to to american express   and you know have some idea of how much was there you know i'd sent them you know several hundred dollars or whatever   i felt i would spend   and then use it then  
but uh for hotels and and so forth  
but uh but i knew that it was paid  
i knew   i knew that i had that much   credit going in  
sometimes you know sometimes i would go over  
but it wouldn't you know it wouldn't hit me in a big in a big way because   i knew that uh i would have it covered in that respect  
well i found   i found in um in traveling overseas   that uh often it would uh it would [expedite] things to have an american express credit card   for hotel bills and so forth  
plus i would uh when they uh would send the bill they would automatically convert to the exchange rate  
so now the only time that got to be a problem was if the exchange rate changed drastically  
uh for example i remember on one trip to france when i started planning the trip i think uh a dollar was worth nine or ten  
francs   and just in a matter of a week or two the dollar fell against the [franc] drastically  
and when i finally got over there it had fallen uh two or three francs to the dollar  
so the  
so i got caught a little short   in that regard  
but uh   uh i i was anticipating you know my room would cost uh let's say  
if it were say sixty or seventy francs a night   that would mean it would be about ten dollars or so or maybe twenty  
maybe it would be more than that  
it was more than  
it would average out to thirty five or forty dollars a night   which is a reasonable rate  
but then when i got back and i was working for the government at the time  
of course the government was several months behind in   their on its per [diem] for exchange rate  
so there's a little [consternation] you know in trying to get them to compensate   for the difference in the exchange rate  
that was the only time i really got caught short  
and i   but as i said most most of all i try not to use them uh to any you know [lavishly] in that regard  
well from where are you calling  
so you're from  
okay  
i'm from maryland  
yeah  
no  
i work for g t e  
yes  
well i know jack [godfrey]  
i know him very well  
i've known jack for a long time  
and i'm also in the speech business  
so when i heard that jack was going to do this i called him and asked for an application where i could participate   in this  
and so that's how i got involved  
oh thank you very much  
but as jack said i'm one of the the old hands in the speech business  
yeah  
uh yes  
i i've been doing it for twenty some odd years  
and so uh i was very much interested uh in getting involved in uh switchboard  
so uh you work for t i  
oh really  
i guess we're supposed to do this part of it before we started the recording  
alright  
okay  
fine  
well you have a good evening  
it's been pleasant talking to you  
take care  
good night  
okay  
how do you feel about them  
yeah  
well we have this philosophy we use it when we go off somewhere  
but we pay for it as soon as we come back you know  
as soon as we get our bills   we pay it off  
and we only have one  
we tore all the rest of them up  
because i don't like credit cards for one thing you know  
i mean they're okay i guess  
if you're on a trip or something   you don't have to take a whole bunch of you know cash with you  
but i don't like using them because i've seen too many people that used them and ended up bankrupt or on   chapter thirteen and stuff like that  
because they have this weird opinion that if you use that card you don't have to pay for it  
yeah  
yeah  
and it gives you a um a false sense of security or something it seems like  
because you say oh well i don't have to pay for it now  
but you're going to have to pay for it  
and it seems like  
uh_huh  
right  
are you married  
oh okay  
well i know that a lot of young people you know i  
it took me a long time to get it through my child's head  
i mean that was her goal you know uh got to have a credit card  
but now that she has one  
she's only used it one time  
but she wanted to establish some credit  
but i think it finally [sunk] in you know because she saw some of the other people and just like she heard them say you know well i used a credit card  
and my husband's sister is the world's worst at oh  
well i'll just use the credit cards  
and she has all of her credit cards up to the limit  
you know and i'm i'm thinking woman wake up and smell the roses before they come and get you  
but  
right  
and people don't see that either  
right  
the only one that we we have that we kept was the discover card  
and it pays you to use it   i mean if you pay your bill off right away   if you don't ever have to pay any interest on it because they give you a certain amount every time that you use it  
and you make that money as long as you don't ever have to pay them any uh interest  
now it's  
and people say well you know i'm making money by using this credit card  
but they don't realize that if they  
i mean it only takes one time for you to use it and not pay the interest  
i mean you have to pay the interest not pay it right off  
that's going to take up what you would have made  
so that's the only reason that we kept that  
we debated for a long time  
plus they don't have that um charge on it you know  
like  
yeah  
right  
they don't have one of those  
so it  
we decided that was it you know  
and i mean everybody calls us and wants to give us a credit card  
we have we could have credit cards running down our ears  
yes  
yes  
and then i'll have just like uh department stores  
they'll call me up you know  
and i'll say  
look i don't want the credit card  
well we're just going to send it to you you know  
you don't have to ever use it if you don't want to  
they'll send me any credit card  
i tear it up  
i just can't see it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know it  
and you know what  
what's really bad about those though is just like  
young people if they don't you know  
we take the time to you know help my daughter  
she's in college  
but it this is her first credit card thing  
well when she got her first one she was so excited  
it was unreal  
look at this they sent me this money you know  
so then when i explained to her look you have to pay this back and they are going to charge you interest and stuff  
of course she tore it up  
but a lot of parents would not take the time you know  
and they wouldn't even think of it  
or their kids may not be as close as my daughter  
and i  
are  
and uh you know they may not even discuss it  
they go out and cash their check thinking that you know  
they've got something  
maybe they've won something  
you know somebody sent them something free  
and go out and spend it  
and um it's just unreal  
i mean i don't like credit cards  
i wish that they would come up with some other way to you know  
the only way you could use them is if you were like on vacation  
they would let you use it maybe once a year  
you know i mean of course i guess some people go out and spend their whole entire limit on it like that at that time  
but um i have seen so many people  
and i have a friend right now she just got off of thirteen  
she got uh  
i can't remember what she called it  
it's some kind of  
maybe it's sure or something like that  
it's something it's some weird name of a credit card  
and she is charging out of her mind already  
and i'm going  
you just got off  
that's how you got on to it to start with you know what is the matter with this person  
but um it seems like people just you know they just think well i can just have anything i want  
and i just don't see it like that  
of course i always see pay the bills first  
and whatever's leftover that's what you have  
but um maybe a lot of people don't see it like that  
but i can't stand owing  
i mean i cannot fully tolerate to owe something like you know  
i guess it's just because i've been brought up like that  
but um i could not charge to the limit and knowing that i was going to have to pay this thing out for ever and maybe suffer from having to [payout]  
but that's just the way i feel about it  
right  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i guess it is like that though because it seems like more and more people are like that  
but um i guess it's because i'm older  
i mean i'm not real old  
but i am older  
and um you know i didn't feel like that i didn't feel like i had to have everything  
i guess it was because  
well i had everything when i was at home  
but i i don't know why i didn't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
well it didn't hurt you did it to  
i mean you didn't go out and charge a whole bunch and lose everything did you  
yeah  
well you learned then  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i keep trying to get away from them  
i used to use a lot of credit cards  
i guess for a while i would use you know a variety of the visa and the mastercard and the stores  
but i think i i impulse buy too much with them  
or i buy things you know i see it on sale  
and i think oh it's on sale i have to get it  
and i really don't need it  
or i really haven't budgeted for it  
so um the last couple of years i really have tried not to use them at all  
what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
right  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
if if it's on the credit card it doesn't seem like it's money out of your pocket  
sometimes you may think well i don't have the money so you use the credit card it's like fake money or something  
yeah  
you think well i don't have it now but payday will come and then i'll have the money  
but that's probably paying for things that were still owed from last time  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
besides the fact that how much interest you pay and then this  
yeah  
this thing that you thought you got on sale by the time you get done paying with that with all the finance charges because you pay it off over a long period of time  
you've spent a heck of a lot of money on that thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
service charge you mean  
yearly fee  
yeah  
oh you get that stuff in the mail all the time  
what i really hate in the mail is like for the credit cards that i do have still   that they send you these things that look like checks  
and they say hey you know two thousand dollars you know free to you kind of thing you know  
all you got to do is go cash those things  
and you've got a short term loan  
i hate it  
i can't believe they have the nerve to do that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it's it's somewhat a uh symptom of our me generation  
and that  
we think we need all these things  
and i think my parents always you know did without or saved up to you know buy things  
and we consider that so many of these things we just have to have you know  
like when i first got my apartment and i was setting it up i did try to [economize] some  
but you know i was just like well i have to have it all [furnished] and i have to have all of my kitchen setup  
and you don't you know do without too much  
and you know that's how i got started kind of with setting up a household all up you know it kind of like in the short amount of time  
you know you just have to have these things just you know have them at home have to have them at my own place  
and that's you know a big expenditure to start um buying all these things that you think or or have to have  
and actually they're kind of luxuries  
or you should save up slowly and keep buying them and not just rush out and [furnish] the whole place   you know going in one big [swoop] save up and then buy it  
but we're not into that  
we're into like have to have it all now  
well we're geared to that  
we're like  
okay  
like i want a living room set and instead of sitting back and and going okay well it's going to cost maybe a thousand dollars two thousand dollars  
and i'll save for two years  
people go oh well i'll just go buy it put it on credit and they'll pay it off  
people aren't tuned in to like saving for it and then buying it  
they just put it on a charge card put it on account   and then pay off the bill because they want it now  
it's always have to have it now  
no  
no  
but i have had some times when i've had some pretty good balances on there  
and uh you know i finally you know paid them all off and thought this is you know kind of nonsense  
so we don't uh have big balances on them at  
all now we're we're you know we  
i use it occasionally  
but i pay it right off  
we're  
yeah  
you learn the you know the hard way you hate paying all that interest  
and i've never been one to itemize on my income tax and never had enough to itemize  
and so it's just a big chunk of money  
and you realize that you're not buying anything on sale your paying so much more for that item because you've got finance charge and the cost of having that card every year which is what forty dollars sometimes just to have the card  
that's a lot of money that you went to buy this item  
and then you never feel like you've got anything to to put into savings or anything  
you're always just paying bills paying bills you know  
you don't feel that you have any extra to save  
and i hate i hate living paycheck to paycheck  
i like to have a little there you know  
that i can save  
so i can feel that you know if something comes up i've got the money to pay for it  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
you have a lot of discipline  
they make it really easy for people to uh to get credit cards especially college students  
i have uh two daughters who who both are in college  
or in fact one has finished now  
but they both have a lot of credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh right  
and then they they give you uh uh the credit limit  
and then you're always seemingly up to that limit  
now i have quite a few credit cards that i'm always almost up to the limit on most of them  
and that's that's how a lot of people get into trouble  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well you have a lot of discipline  
i uh i'm trying my best right now to pay off some of mine  
i i've i've paid off about four credit cards this year  
and uh but still i have some that are are up to the limit  
and especially the visa card   that you can go and get cash on  
and it seems like every time i'm short of cash i just go get get it from visa  
uh_huh  
uh  
well uh you can go in a bank and just hand them the visa card and say i want a cash advance  
or if they've sent you a uh a number that you can use you know a a personal identification number   that you can use in the uh impact machines or whatever you   you can do that  
because i have one that i don't have a pin number for  
you know sometimes you have to ask them for that  
and then i have one that uh just gave me the pin number automatically  
uh_huh  
right  
oh wow  
well they they do that a lot if you have good credit and you have been paying your bills on time  
everybody in the world will offer you a a credit card  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well you know the way the economy's going and inflation and the recession and all that i think we we really need to try to stay out of debt as much as possible  
that's that's why i've i've really started to try to to pay off mine and get out of debt because we never know when we might you know get laid off or   something  
especially me  
i work for texas instruments  
and they've had had a lot of of uh you know layoffs lately  
you do  
where are you  
johnson city  
uh_huh  
i   know they're selling out somebody in colorado springs  
yeah  
it it certainly is  
i've uh i have worked on a part part time job uh where i was a collector   for uh uh a jewelry company  
people uh that  
they just had this jewelry account  
it was [zales] jewelry in fact  
and uh a whole bunch of  
i mean they have about a thousand [collectors] i guess  
and uh there's just so many people that have bought jewelry which is really a luxury item  
and then they they just can't pay for it  
something something happens  
you know and you hear so many stories listening to them like uh you know they lost their job  
or uh they they've signed for a friend  
you know they got it in their name  
but they   got it for a friend  
and then the friend   wouldn't pay them  
and now they're stuck with the bill  
and it's ruining their credit  
and   you really have to watch it this you know  
because  
yeah  
because every every month all of these credit cards report to the credit bureau you know automatically most of them do  
yeah  
and if you if you're uh  
it's bad because if you you know your bill is due on the fifteenth   then [y-] you're not past due until the fifteenth of the next month  
but you know if you if you pay one day after that fifteenth you're not one day late  
you're thirty days late  
right  
right  

and anyway we need to watch our credit reports and all that kind of  
uh_huh  
well you know you you can do that  
i believe it costs about ten dollars  
oh yeah  
it is  
it is  
you might even find somebody's been reporting on you  
and you didn't even know it  
you know you i mean you might think you're paying something on time  
or and you by that day  
and you're thirty days is not real bad though anyway   if you've got a charge off on your credit report or something like that  
that's when it really gets bad  
or something you haven't paid in sixty days or ninety days you know and things like that  
uh_huh  
do they charge a lot of interest on that card  
i don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well always watch out for anybody who bills you out of atlanta georgia  
or there's a couple of other places that are able to charge us like twenty one and twenty two percent interest  
i know i had a charge with uh [spiegel]  
and i hadn't read the uh terms of the credit agreement really  
and uh when i did i you know i realized that that it just looked seemed like i was never paying the balance off   you know  
and i looked at the credit card agreement one day  
and it was like twenty three percent interest  
and that's the one bill that i hurry up [hurried] and paid up  
and   and i've always watched it since then  
you really have to watch those interest rates  
i mean  
that's true  
so anyway they can't bill you any higher than eighteen percent i think in in texas  
but   there there are a couple of states that can  
and one to watch out for is anybody that bills you out of atlanta atlanta georgia  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
wow  
i wonder if they  
i started when i was in college  
you know they always offer credit cards for college students  
so i went ahead and accepted every one that i was offered   because i knew it would be easier to go ahead and get them and establish credit early  
so i i pack around a lot of them  
but i only use a few of them  
yeah  
and they give you such high credit limits  
it's it's easy to get caught up in the minimum payment trap  
yeah  
i've got i've got two that i you know that usually i'll have a balance on  
and then all of the others i just try to use kind of like you would an american express card and and pay it off every month  
and that way i feel like i'm getting you know a thirty day loan  
but i don't have to worry about you know running them up too high except at christmas  
then they usually go then they usually get run up pretty good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now that's one that's  
i've never used my visa for cash before  
can you use it like at a bank machine  

or  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
now we got  
that's that's funny you said that because we got a credit card uh my husband and i got credit cards in the mail one day that we hadn't even applied for  

now a couple of weeks later we got we got pin numbers  
and then we got uh a bill saying you know uh the yearly fee it was like forty dollars  
and we we cut them up and sent them back because we we hadn't even applied for them  
and we didn't want them  
but they they had just automatically approved us and sent them without even [contacting] us  
so i thought man i don't know if i trust this or not  
it's like let's see if we can get her to run up her bills  
but it's hard  
i mean it's it's tempting when you see something to say well i'll just charge it  
and sometimes i'll do that  
but usually i i will try to pay everything off the next month  
or   the ones that usually have an outstanding balance all the time i'll i'll pay more than the minimum payment  
just i i feel like even that little bit helps  
i know it  
well i work for t i too  
and i think they're getting ready to to probably sell us out our division  
in johnson city tennessee  
yeah  
yeah  
they just they just announced that didn't they  
so i mean it's it's kind of a bad time to be a slave to your credit cards  
uh_huh  
man  
yeah  
oh  
didn't pay them  
man  
that's scary  
i didn't realize that  
yeah  
oh okay  
they don't they don't recognize any time difference do they  
ooh  
that's scary  
that's something i never thought about getting you know checking with to see what what your credit report looked like  
might be worth it for peace of mind  
yeah  
i think that discover card has a good idea with you know giving you a little cash back incentive for each amount you you purchase as long as you don't go crazy trying to get cash back  
and since they don't have the yearly fee  
i don't know  
i've never i haven't gotten one   just because it's uh uh  
i felt like with visa and mastercard and american express you didn't need another one  
i would think it wouldn't be you know much more than the eighteen or nineteen percent everyone else charges  
so that that wouldn't be too bad  
yeah  
holy cow  
definitely  
that's awful  
i mean there's no point in giving them any more money than we have to  
so  
oh that's great  
i'll try to remember that one  
well let's see  
i was trying to think if there was anything else  
uh the i guess the worst problem i ever had with with a credit card though was um i got a an item on my bill that i had never purchased  
i had ordered a sofa and had filled out the paperwork  
but they weren't supposed to process it until they delivered it  
and i changed my mind  
but then they went ahead and charged it on my account  
and it took me about eighteen months to get that all of that mess off of my account  
so that's that's probably the worst thing i've ever had happen with a credit card  
i don't  
guess we got our first uh credit card oh back in the seventies early seventies when   i first got married  
was a visa card uh issued out of a liberty bank in oklahoma city  
because my sister worked at the uh the visa some bank [americard] center there  
so we were still in college  
and had she not worked there i'm not sure that i would have qualified  
they've come in handy over the years  
uh and they have become or also a a real bother sometimes  
especially you know if you catch yourself short on cash or if you're on vacation   it's just easier to put everything on a card  
and uh i find if you're not careful you wind up uh a month or so staring those bills in the face  
and you go i don't remember doing all that stuff  
and it adds up  
so sometimes uh especially traveling with t i   you know everything goes on american express  
and it makes it a whole lot easier for [bookkeeping]  
but uh as far as personal life goes i guess i really try to use them as little as possible uh  
i kind of like having them for uh gasoline purchases  
yeah  
but other than that uh i i guess over the years tried to avoid the national credit card syndrome   of just putting everything on there day after day after day  
and then   then you really get [socked] to it if you don't watch it  
how how do you look at counting credit cards  
well that's  
right  
well that's kind of the way we were doing  
it's uh  
i guess for that very reason that that uh if you're not real conscious of what you're doing   it's just too much by the time you get  
well if you got a bunch of cards   you get a bunch of bills every month  
and for some strange reason those people think they need to get paid  
yeah  
and i give them  
maybe not maybe they're not really concerned about getting paid  
because they're  
know if you don't   then they're adding on what eighteen nineteen twenty percent  
sometimes   it's twenty two percent interest  
yeah  
i guess that's one of the motivations behind the   the uh   the uh american express card with t i  
there's no  
with the american express card from t i   there's no um late fee  
there's no uh interest rate  
you you either pay the thing off  
or they come get it  
and it's turned into personnel  
and they come get you  
so they've got quite a bit more motivation i think to get paid then   some of the others do  
but that's the one that your call center manager sees every month  
so you're a little bit more careful about what you put on that   even though you can use it however you want to  
oh yeah  
you can use it like any other card  
and uh   but it you know you kind of you know that somebody every month  
and who knows how many people   are looking at those uh bills that come in and those statements  
you're not the only one  
so uh you want to make sure that uh is that okay  
is that okay that those people see what it is that you are buying  
and most of the time it is  
but most of the others i've sent back i mean all you get is card offers  
i've got three card offers now   uh from gas companies and uh visa gold and uh some other bank uh  
[citibank] i think is always sending the visa stuff out  
and i usually just throw them away because i   i don't want another one  
i don't want to have to mess with it  
you know you carry around a wallet full of credit cards  
and uh one of these days it's going to all be full  
oh that's not bad  
yeah  
no  
if they don't say no annual membership on them i'll throw them away  
um   years ago well i had my visa card through this bank in oklahoma city for   oh probably fifteen years  
and then they started charging uh annual membership fees  
and i said [adios] i'm you know i'm not paying you  
it's just another way to make money   as far as i can tell  
i mean they've been  
well sure  
and they i guess they figure they've got enough people out there with cards  
they're going to get cards at the   twenty bucks a pop  
there's going to be that much more  
uh so then a couple years ago i found uh a bank here in plano that if you kept a minimum balance in any kind of account whether it was a savings account or what it was you can get a visa card through them and no annual membership  
so i went over and just stuck three hundred dollars in my son's savings account in his name and got my visa card  
so   as long as they have no annual membership fee   i it would be okay  
but i can't see paying someone to use their card  
be charged their eighteen percent interest  
so   yeah  
i think you're right  
the best philosophy is have them if you need them but otherwise leave them tucked away somewhere  
yeah  
yeah  
it sure does  
maybe they're counting on that  
i don't know  
well i guess that's it  
thanks for talking  
bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh tell me about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they add up quick  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we like to keep one on hand just for emergencies you know  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we just uh quit using them  
and they got us in trouble  
we took a loan and paid them all off  
we keep them uh we keep uh one gas card and uh and uh visa just you know in case there's an emergency or   something  
but other than that we don't use them anymore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
isn't that funny  
yeah  
yeah  
and then some of them add late fees on it   if they don't get paid  
and  
uh_huh  
huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
can you use that one for personal use  
oh you can  
uh_huh  
oh i see huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i do too  
i don't even open them much  
i throw them out  
uh_huh  
a girlfriend of mine found a  
it was a visa or mastercard  
she found an ad for one in like a good housekeeping magazine for eleven percent  
shoot i need one of those  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
why do they do that  
i mean   i mean they get enough you know on the interest  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
no  
i can't either  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
gets a lot of people in in trouble  
okay  
nice talking to you  
bye bye  
well what are your  
did you like do you use credit cards  
huh_uh  
so it doesn't get uh uh the credit uh  
the interest rate is so high that you're really  
if you're going to use credit cards you need to use that policy i think don't you  
otherwise you end up paying so much more for your merchandise that it's hardly   uh it's not a very good idea  
well i have a lot of them  
but i don't use them very much though  
i use them mostly for big things like maybe sometimes uh tuition if it's you know if i'm short to go ahead and get it and then try to get it saved back as quick as i can  
the other thing i i think if you do get overextended a little bit you need to be sure and pay it off uh more than one at a time because i think you could run forever paying what they require  
just goes on and on  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
there are times   when it's when it's very useful   like uh emergency trip   or something  
sometimes when you when you  
the money will be available  
but it's you know not immediately handy  
i think uh they're very helpful plus the fact that it's helpful not to have to carry a lot of money sometimes  
but uh i you really do need to be very um oh responsible about it  
or you end up in deep trouble  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that can be very handy under those kind of circumstances  
the other thing about them is too if you really don't you really need to get some and use them because if you have never used them and developed and haven't developed a credit thing it stops you from doing a lot of things  
if you   if you pay for everything by cash uh there is a lot of things that a lot of people who will not give you credit when you need something like a house or   a car  
so so they they have become a very vital part of our of our monetary system   over the last few years  
but uh it's true  
you have to be very careful or you end up uh going in the deep end  
and uh and an awful lot of people are in trouble  
we have a boy living with us who works for a credit card uh company that  
and he makes calls to people who have problems you know credit problems   that are trying to work out  
and uh poor thing he comes home very depressed every night   because the world has so many problems of that sort  
so it's   it's uh it's uh it's a really big problem i think and um takes mature people to to treat it uh  
so that it's so that it's a real advantage to you instead of a disadvantage  
yeah  
right  
it didn't do you any good now does it  
even before it probably wasn't though because you didn't get anywhere near as much as what it   you didn't get to claim anywhere near what you ended up paying  
so well i'm not  
other than that i don't have too much on credit cards  
but  
it's good to talk to you  
uh_huh  
bye now  
uh not very often  
i usually uh  
the ones we use is like visa  
and we always try to pay it back at the end of the month  
i have uh uh  
right  
yeah  
that's right  
do you have a lot of credit cards  
right  
oh yeah  
which is what they want  
i think a lot of people go in debt because they think oh you know i can just charge it  
but really i mean if they don't have the money then they aren't going to have it in a month  
so  
they uh make the mistake of   pushing all their cards  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i made that mistake when i first got a job  
and that's kind of like  
it took me quite a while to pay them off  
so after that i decided well i'm not going to use them at all and just try to pay cash for everything  
and that worked for a while  
and then we got married  
so we decided to you know if we used them we would pay them off as we go  
so  
right  
that's true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh_uh  
oh  
yeah  
right  
i think um the way the tax system was they encouraged people to use credit cards you know with a big write off at the end of the year  
but now it's like it's punch money because  
you cannot  
right  
you cannot write off your interest  
yeah  
yeah  
you too  
thanks for calling  
bye  
hi  
what do you do with your credit cards  
oh jeez  
oh i was going to say that that sounds like like pretty many  
but i see what you meant  
you had them for each of the individual stores  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh gee  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but each of these had an annual fee also right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
forty five  
right uh  
i  
exactly you know  
i that's it  
i really resented the fact that they were charging me for cards  
so i sent back all of mine except the ones that were free  
and um then then i also limited it to one of each one mastercard and one visa  
and here most of the stores will accept those  
and actually i then got a discover card since they pay you back  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
actually i pay off my cards every month  
only once in my life have i not paid  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well and also in a sense they're giving you a loan for a month  
so that   you know if i were smarter i would have that same amount in savings and get the interest which i don't   do  
but but yeah  
the the thought of adding you know x percent to to the price of what i buy   i just i can't accept  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that i would that would be a very scary feeling for me to know that i was you know juggling payments to different people   i guess because i never experienced it  
and it's not because you know i'm rich or anything  
it's just a mental concept that i have   yeah  
that i just  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
but it sounds like you know you you learned from it  
and you're coming out of it all right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but now the fact that you still have two cards  
are you do you use them more [judiciously]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
purchases  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
clothing sales  
sales i find are a pain  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it sounds good you know  
like i said it sounds like you're you've really got it under control  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and like i said once once it it happened i couldn't because my son's tuition came due  
and i guess i had you know not really counted on it quite at that point  
but um yeah  
i didn't like it at all  
i was very uncomfortable  
so  
you know and and i mean it was i thought a lot  
sixty dollars interest or something for for just a couple of months  
and i'm going   jeez that's outrageous  
but in in you know retrospect it wasn't all that much  
i mean a lot of people pay a lot more  
and   and you know but still i mean i figured i didn't need those items if it cost me sixty dollars more to have them  
exactly  
groceries for a week  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but now did you use to not feel so badly because you could take it off your income tax  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
thrown away  
yeah  
jeez  
you were good at it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i suspect that you know thinking about it and looking at my friends and the number of credit cards that they use and you know the amount that i know they buy i guess probably a lot of them are in a similar situation and you know just don't talk about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
very personal  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and especially if you if you don't feel you're handling it quite right   or that somebody might make fun of you or that it would be  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
but but once i suppose you you prove yourself by paying this off next year   you'll be in very good shape  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
well my husband and i have gotten into some some problems with credit cards  
we don't handle them very well  
we we tend to run them up to the maximum and then ask for more  
they they're they're really bad for us  
um matter of fact we've gotten rid of all of our credit cards except for a mastercard and a visa  
and we pretty much keep those maxed out  
yeah  
we had i had probably twenty credit cards   for  
i had i had an american express american express gold an optima all the different department stores um two visas two mastercards  
i mean i had  
any time anybody would you know send me an application you know preapproved or whatever i went i took it  
and it really ended up getting us in some real serious trouble  
um because see the more credit cards you have the more people offer them to you  
and the more you use them the more they send them to you  
exactly  
the american express was probably the worst um because with the gold card  
i can't remember how much it was because i didn't even have it very long before i gave it up  
but i know the green card was like thirty five five dollars a year  
which was a lot  
because i mean you had to pay it in full every month  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i had a discover  
and that was one of the ones in the group that i ended up um closing  
um it really wasn't my choice though  
i mean i ended up having i ended up actually losing my credit cards  
um i ended up going through a credit counseling service   um because my husband and i just don't handle credit very well  
and um when when you do that they automatically once you start with their service they close your accounts out  
so i'm still paying on all these accounts  
but my accounts are closed  
so and i would prefer to keep it that way  
once we once we're paid off   um i would prefer just to have one mastercard and one visa  
and that's it  
i think that's a really good way to handle it because that way if you if you paid off every month you never have to worry about well how much do i have to pay these guys you know this month you know  
this you buy what you can afford  
i mean   if you handle it just like you would like a check or cash   it's a lot easier to keep it in check  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i   and i think at this at this point in time with the economy the way it is i think that um it's going to get even worse  
um i'm i'm glad that we're starting to pay our debts off now um you know  
we only we started this last year  
and we probably still have about another year to go   before we're completely out of the hole  
but i think this they way the whole economy is going right now it's just not good to be in debt  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well when you when you're getting rid of the whole credit card cycle and if you really get into the mind set i got really good at juggling money and basically robbing peter to pay paul  
and it was scary because i was so good at it  
and i thought this is not right  
i mean this has got to stop because eventually it'd end up catching up at catching up with me  
and it hit me in the face  
um  
i yeah  
i have  
i've learned a lot from it  
i've learned that credit cards are extremely dangerous in my hand   and my husband's too because he's he's the same way i am  
i don't i don't think that  
well when we buy on credit we just don't have a concept of how much money we're spending   until the bill comes in  
and then all of a sudden you look at the bill  
and you go oh my gosh  
i spent this much  
yeah  
we pretty much use them for emergency type things like transmission fell out on our car  
and that paid for a new transmission  
um and and things like that  
um and we try not to use them for   [incidental] type things like you know gas and stuff like that  
yeah  
yeah  
i've i've gotten i've gotten a lot more away from from credit cards  
and i pay by check a lot more now  
i i admire you for having having that mind set for not not even getting you know past the thirty days  
i would that's ideally the where where i would like to be  
uh_huh  
i can imagine  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
think about what you can buy for sixty dollars  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think about all all the money that that we've spent on interest   on all of our credit cards  
and it's just incredible  
we've never been able to take it off our income tax  
i'm i'm fairly newly married  
i've only been married less than two years  
and before that i never owned a home or anything  
so i never had any deductions  
so really it was always just money   thrown away  
and i never really thought about it because  
yeah  
i was so good at it that it just kind of got stuck in the back of my mind and just never   um became a real problem until all of a sudden it came an [insurmountable] problem  
yeah  
most most people don't like to talk about money  
they feel uncomfortable i think  
you know   for a lot of people it is very personal  
yeah  
but i think the the average american is probably pretty heavily in debt not not including like a mortgage  
a mortgage is an understandable debt   because that's you have you have to have a roof over your head  
and i would much rather own my own home than than be renting it like we're doing  
i mean we're basically you know kind of throwing seven hundred dollars a month away  
we're renting a house  
but you know right now with the way our credit card situation is there's nobody in the world that's going to give us a mortgage on a house  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's going to it's going to take quite a while  
hopefully within five years we'll be in our own home  
but um i'm not really counting on it real soon  
okay  
yeah  
we well we have quite a few  
but we don't really use them a lot  
we have well we like a lot of gasoline credit cards   because we like to be able to stop you know when we're traveling and stuff wherever there's a station  
but as far as like mastercard and visa we don't use those too often  
what about you  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh really  
huh  
oh is it like an automatic debit  
or  
oh huh  
oh really  
yeah  
we use our credit cards sometimes for a big purchase  
but we always have the money set aside already to  
and then we just pay it off the next   month  
we never pay we don't like to pay interest on the credit cards at all  
yeah  
gosh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
we we screwed up one time like that too  
we mailed it  
and they just never did get it  
and we had to finally mail them another check  
huh  
yeah  
i don't either  
no  
you figure   you'll get your check back if you have to  
yeah  
really  
i like to use my card if i buy something through the mail which i don't do real often or something from out of state you know where if something is wrong   you don't want to end up having to pay for it  
a couple times i've had to write big credit card companies and say you know i didn't really get this  
or i don't know what this is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
it's  


yeah  
if you filed that letter with them then they will kind of  
yeah  
i'm like you too   about the yearly fees  
i don't uh i don't like to pay the yearly fee for a card  
right now both the mastercard and the visa we don't have to pay a yearly fee on  
and   since we don't pay the interest it doesn't really matter what the interest rate   is too just as long as we don't have to pay that yearly fee  
now we had american express cards  
and my husband had always had that before we got married  
and those got so high we finally decided for him and me both to have a card it was like ninety dollars or something i think  
i can't remember  
but we decided let that one go  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but yeah  
like you said if you really if you need that extra for charging tickets and stuff   it's more worth it  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
that wouldn't be too hard to do  
yeah  
have you ever run into problems of charging up more than you meant to and having to   be stuck with that  
we've never had   that problem either  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess it depends on whoever you buy it from how fast they turn them in or something  
lot of places have  
i guess they're called those pointed sale [terminals] where it's like it goes in the minute   you charge it  
yeah  
oh  
oh gosh  
yeah  
that's nice  
right  
yeah  
i like that feature  
and the like if you break it yourself even you know  
if you buy something that's [breakable]  
yeah  
oh really  
oh i didn't know that  
hi  
do you have lots of credit cards  
uh_huh  
um i used to have a ton of gas credit cards  
and now i have one or two of them  
but i think i've even let some of them [expire]  
but i was living out of the country for a while  
so i wasn't using them too much  
and i don't drive that much  
but i have you know mastercard and visa as you know  
i have a mastercard and an american express now  
i got rid of the visa because it was getting out of hand having fifteen million cards  
but as long as  
like my mastercard is um free as long as you spend about i don't know three thousand dollars a year or something like that  
and so i tend to buy almost all major purchases on a credit card   when i have the choice  
and um i used to even use it for my grocery shopping and stuff  
the stores around here don't let you do it too much  
and so i don't  
but i was living in france  
and there you pay for everything by credit card  
but it's not really a credit card  
it's a it's a debit card  
yeah  
and um just you know it's many times you get out of the store faster if you pay with that than if you pay with cash  
bye  
thanks  
um yeah  
because they're just so well set up with it  
right  
well  
yeah  
i i never pay finance charges on them except when i screw up which i occasionally do  
and you know i'll forget to pay the bill by the due date  
or this last month i mailed a check to them on the twenty second  
and they didn't get it until the [thirtieth]  
and it was   due the twenty fifth  
and you know so i thought i  
and so i got hit up with a uh finance charge on it which pissed me off   because um you know i really did mail it in time  
but they have no proof of that  
i don't i don't want to probably talk to them some more discuss it  
but i i never um usually never pay finance charges  
i had that hassle one time  
and that went on for months and months and months because  
and they eventually found the check and deposited it  
and months later they were still telling me that i owed them finance charges and um late fees and things like that  
and i said well i mailed you a check  
and you eventually did deposit it  
so you know i guess i don't know who the the burden of proof is on  
you know kind of the  
because you never  
when i pay bills i don't make a xerox copy of it  
or i don't   um  
right  
or i don't get a i don't mail them all a signed receipt whatever i   you know at the bank to have a proof of when i mailed it  
and i mean you can't do that  
it would be ridiculous  
right  
well you can  
right  
or i returned it  
so don't charge it  
yeah  
well that's basically what happened with us is we bought a computer  
and the computer um wasn't didn't do what these people said it would do  
we need to just put external cards in  
and it wouldn't do that  
so he brought it back to them  
and they're supposed to [modify] it  
and so i called the credit card company and said well we haven't really taken possession because it's not useful for us  
we can't use it  
and then they said well then don't pay it  
and then a month later i had to dispute it in writing  
and i was out of the country and got back  
and i took care of it as as soon as we got the computer back  
and it was okay  
i mailed off a check  
but then it was too late  
so now they're hitting me up there with a finance charge  
but it's sort of you know  
it's it's half our fault  
and so  
right  
if i had filed the letter to dispute it and then paid it eventually it would have been okay  
so i learned that for the next time  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well my husband and i both have that  
and i don't know what we pay for his card  
i pay i think  
i have a gold one  
so   i think it's like seventy five dollars for me  
and i'm not quite sure what it is for him  
but i had really like  
there  
nowadays i'm not so sure that it's worth it  
but um in the past there you know there are some places that only take american express  
and then they don't have the credit limit because i've over done the credit limit on the other card  
if my husband and i both travel   it you know a couple of plain tickets and a little bit more and you're over the limit on the credit card  
and um with the american express they say there is no limit  
there really is  
but they   tell you that  
but then that was one advantage  
but that's like  
i don't  
i think it's seventy five dollars for me and forty for him   for a year which is a lot  
be  
yeah  
well   we should probably get another um visa card   one another one that's free  
because there are some  
like i think a t and t has one that's free if you make two purchases a year  
well so  
yeah  
and so that's easy enough to do  
and if that's true that's um it might be better off to have that as a second card just to have the credit   and get rid of the american express because it costs so much  
no  
no  
i  
and i don't i mean i guess i do understand the mentality of people doing it  
but i don't understand  

because people think it doesn't really cost them anything to pay  
i have had months where i was shocked at how much had come in because like i thought i would buy a big expense and think that it would take one or two months to process  
and sometimes it comes in right away  
and it's like oh well guess   i have to pay that too  
because like many times i'll i'll buy some things towards the end of the month thinking hey i won't get that bill until the next bill   not this bill  
and it will come in on the next one  
you have to pay for it right away anyway  
but sometimes the is long  
like i've had things that i didn't get [billed] on for two or three months  
yeah  
immediately  
yeah  
but that's what happened with us  
like we bought a washing machine seven months ago  
and that i got [billed] like the next day  
it didn't matter because we couldn't have paid for it by check  
but we prefer  
like with the credit card you get the automatic um one year guarantee so if something breaks things like that  
you can uh return it so like the washing machine we bought it in october  
and you know if something goes wrong with it within the first year we've got an automatic guarantee on it besides the manufacturer's guarantee  
and [somethings] like that are  
right  
or if it gets stolen or if you lose it or whatever it might be  
and so so that's you know another advantage and then even things like airline tickets you automatically get flight insurance which um you hopefully you never use  
but like if your  
but things like if your baggage gets lost you get money for that   to buy new bags and things like that  
and yeah  
when you rent a car you get that  
and sometimes you get discounts with the cards  
and so  
do you use credit cards a good bit  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
absolutely  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well actually i i have a whole wallet full of credit cards  
i don't use them very often  
um oh i may use i try to use at least one gasoline credit card a week and try to use a different one so that you know i have keep those active  
i have a half a dozen department store credit cards  
and i i'll use those if i need to run in and buy a dozen pair hose right quick   or something like that  
just enough to keep them active  
my [biggies] are the visa mastercard and discover  
and for the most part i had used those for like uh charging airline tickets where i can pay for those you know you could   make the transaction over the telephone  
or i fly southwest a good little bit which means i can just run that card through the machine  
uh and it saves a lot time  
and that's what i was using it for  
however we had a had a a very pressing financial family crisis which said you have no alternative  
you must have the money to do this with  
and you do not have any other options  
so i charged all three of those cards up  
and right now i am paying and praying  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i never did   right  
i never did use it for an advance  
most of my charges were uh medications  
didn't have cash for the medications  
or it was uh the doctor would accept mastercard or visa  
and uh   a lot of times you can get by using those for uh uh  
different labs will   use those charge accounts for  
uh_huh  
well i have not  
like i said that was just one period in my life where that was critical  
i don't generally charge  
i say well i need a checkup in six months  
and i kind of set that aside   and just pay for it  
i'm reimbursed on insurance anyway  
and i can handle you know paying for it and waiting two or three weeks  
getting into a credit card fiasco is easy  
it is easy  
and it's very difficult to get out  
i just cringe every month when i see those interest charges  
i say wow  
i i ought to go to the credit union and borrow the money and pay this off  
big deal  
i'm saving two percent  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
and   it's not just paying back what you've charged  
it's   paying that and half again  
uh you send in uh uh fifty dollars  
you're going to pay twenty twenty five in interest charges  
you only get half of that paid for the principal  
so i'm looking at three or four years before my balances are cleared on those charge accounts  
now as the monthly payment uh i mean as the monthly payment amount goes down that will free up more cash where i can continue to make the larger payments  
uh as long as i don't have a major disaster where i have to use it again i can i can do that  
meantime though i'm not building any reserves  
anything that i could be put aside into savings is going for interest on those cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you either need a big chunk of money  
or you need a large reserve   so that if you do charge on that account you can make a single lump sum payment  
now those are very handy  
if you have the reserves and you can make lump sum payments sharp good   no problem  
because you're living on the other guy's money for a while  
but i can promise you that those credit card companies are going to ride high on my money  
and it just irks me  
i say my gosh i had to work three hours just to pay the interest on this  
and i've got three cards  
i've lost a whole day of my life   to interest  
yeah  
yeah  
and that just blows my mind  
i my house is paid for  
my car is paid for  
i've got some home improvements  
but even the payment on that doesn't equal the payment on one of those credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
i think   that is a good healthy safe use   of credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i went to a seminar  
they said don't ever use your credit card for [consumable] items  
you only use credit cards for investments  
i said for crying out loud if i had the money to you know   if i could do some investing you'd have to invest at better than twenty percent earnings in order   to pay for the payments on the credit card  
that doesn't make a bit of sense to me  
i thought   god [dang] where is his pencil  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you also have to have that willingness to commit to that   because you're committing a good portion of your life and income when you do it  
i do  
and i wish i didn't  
before i got married uh about the only credit cards i used were gas cards because i didn't like carrying you know   the cash with me all the time  
but i just never wanted to get into the hang up of using credit cards and   having all those bills hanging over my head  
in fact i remember getting my first mastercard  
and the only reason i got it was you know there was a while   years ago when you couldn't cash a check   without like a mastercard or visa  
and so that's why i went ahead and got one  
it was a mistake  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
i know how that goes  
and that's exactly what we've i mean   i have to say i have been thankful for them because there were times when   it was just like that   when we had to have the money  
we had no way around it  
and the only way to do it is go get you know an advance   on a card  
and so like you were paying for it  
but   it's one of those i'm glad it was there  
oh i see  
oh  
what  
do you find now though that even some doctors won't  
i've found some doctors that say you know  
i was so used to doctors or medical care places taking credit cards  
and so many of them don't anymore  
so  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh it is  
i know  
right  
but you know the interest even though it bothered me it didn't used to bother me so much because of course you could list it on a schedule a  
and you got all your interest you know   towards your tax   deductions  
and now they've messed that up to where it really is a financial burden to have to pay it  
and but it but it is easy to get into a credit card problem  
and i i think about young people that think you know  
there's kind of that feeling of hey it's so neat  
i have my first credit card  
and and they just don't understand that you still have to be able to make the payments  
you know  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
right  
right  
no  
and that's frightening to me  
that's right  
that's frightening too  
uh i i just i my husband is in business for himself  
i work for t i  
but he doesn't  
and uh we're uh i i've kind of got my fingers crossed  
i've learned when you're in business for yourself that that you don't count on something until it's happened   you know  
but he's got some you know it's those once in a lifetime cases  
and after ten years he's got two of them  
and they should pay through next month  
and and we're both just looking at each other every night going man that will pay off like both of our mastercards you know  
and you know just in one lump  
because that's the only way you can do it is to have a big chunk of money  
or it's like you say  
you pay forever  
and so i'm really looking forward to that  
that's right  
right  
sure  
yeah  
i agree  
that's right  
i know  
and  
i know  
you're like   what am i working for today  
it's incredible  
boy i wish i could say that my house and  
well my car is paid for now  
it was wrecked three weeks ago  
but but you see again   the credit cards came in handy  
i had to have the money to pay rental car pay this pay that till the insurance company pays back  
and uh  
yeah  
because you know that's coming back to pay it off  
right  
it's  
sure  
that's right  
that's right  
well the smart half was don't pay it for [consumables]  
don't you know if you can't afford to go to a restaurant and eat out and pay cash don't put it on a credit card   you know  
and and so that that is the smart half  
but uh and i can remember before we had kids we did that a lot  
but it was no biggie   you know because we could pay it off  
while after kids and you're paying child care and other things all of a sudden it's not so easy to pay off  
so we cut that out real quick  
and uh but i i do like having them there  
there is a bit of security in having the credit cards and knowing that in times of crisis they are there to use  
but you have to have a very good sense of saving and or   common sense not not to   get yourself in trouble  
uh_huh  
basically uh my husband and myself use the credit cards in regards to major purchases  
we really don't get into small little purchases  
if we're going to purchase something quite large we might put it on a credit card  
but other than that it's not something that we use a lot of  
uh we may have only two or three versus uh i know a lot of people have up to a half a dozen or uh up to a dozen credit cards  
but uh ours are just major credit cards that we have and uh use uh use only when when we feel it's necessary to make a big purchase  
yeah  
yeah  
uh yeah  
one sears  
sears is pretty major with us simply because we do uh   appliances and things like that  
and they're real good with their appliance and stuff like that  
so  
but uh we try to avoid them with a passion because of the percent of interest rate  
if you've got the cash to pay for something it's better to do it that way than versus credit cards unless it's a small enough sum that you can do it within a two three month period  
but   if it's uh any large purchases uh you've got to kind of think about uh how much you're going to put down as far as uh payments on it so that you're not getting eighteen percent or   twenty percent interest taken off  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
so you know  
sure  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
or if it's a business transaction   a lot of times that's important too   to keep a better receipt of it  
so yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh sure  
for the month or whatever  
yeah  
exactly  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
oh yeah  
and you always get these preapproved uh credit card things coming through uh  
your credit is great  
so let's send you another credit card  
or   it's preapproved for  
that's that's to [entice] you to get more credit cards  
yeah  
and so you know we always laugh about that because it's quite a bit  
i mean you know you always constantly getting those preapproved stuff  
so  
uh ours is through a bank yeah  
we had it a long time ago through a bank  
and it just a  
but  
oh you're already paying them uh if you're if you don't pay it off within that month interest anyway  
so yeah  
that's exactly it  
so  
okay  
okay  
all right  
thanks a lot  
bye now  
yeah  
is that like visa and   and mastercard  
do you have department store credit cards too  
or  
uh_huh  
appliances  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
my my husband and i do basically the same thing  
but we we end up [sneaking] a few in there that surprise us  
we still pay it off every month   if it kills us  
but we do it mainly for you know the cash flow  
what is that oh float  
that's the word float  
and i often will keep track of what i've charged and sometimes deduct it from my checkbook   already  
and sometimes just  
and keep a list and make sure i   i don't go over a certain limit   especially around birthdays you know  
oh  
if we go out to a restaurant oh just to float it  
or i don't know  
yeah  
yes  
my husband has a a  
or anytime like a plane ticket or you know  
even if we have the  
i'm sure we'd have the cash before we got it  
but   the float   for more than a hundred dollars seems real nice for that   that thirty days   or whatever  
we have a new one from a t and t  
and we have you know haven't used that one too much  
be interesting  
that's nice because you can use it for a calling card also  
it's a mastercard too  
so  
it's kind of fun uh  
but you get a lot of junk mail about them  
yeah  
you're such a   a wonderful person  
we'll give you five thousand dollars   up front  
right  
do you have uh an annual fee on yours  
or do you get yours through a bank  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
i i can't see paying an annual fee for it  
i mean i almost  
yeah  
well it sounds like i'm being [paged] otherwise  
so  
good talking to you  
hello  
hello  
hi  
boy  
it took forever to find somebody  
good  
well i'm my name's gail  
and i guess we have to   talk about credit cards  
okay  
well if you're ready then uh  
okay  
i'll press one  
okay  
well i'm not  
this is kind of an interesting subject to come up for me because credit cards are my downfall  
i just find it so easy to to charge something when i don't have the money to pay for it  
and i'm really trying to get out of that habit  
so i think they're kind of dangerous  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
seems just like our society is so um pushes so hard for you can have it you know and then no interest no payments for a year and stuff like this  
they're really trying to get you into that situation because they know they've really got you   then  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's funny that we've got a sears card and we bought a washer and dryer on it four years ago and we still owe  
i mean i i think like half the amount that they cost in the first place  
it's just uh you know you never never get it out  
and now that's real irritating  
uh_huh  
well we did you know  
one time we wanted to buy a truck a used truck  
and so we went down to the bank  
and they said sure we'll give you a personal loan  
it was only a thousand dollars that we needed   for the truck  
and they said sure that's no problem but you know why don't we consolidate your bills  
and at the time we thought oh that would be great you know we could  
and it's going to be a lower payment than it was for all of them  
you only have to write one check a month not all those  
you never miss one or whatever  
and we did that  
but we didn't realize at the time until several months later that we we were real  
i mean this was four three years ago  
we were pretty young  
and we were just kind of like  
well i guess that means these credit cards are closed  
and we didn't you know  
about six months later we realized we could use them  
and so we charged them all up again  
yeah  
so then we were not only paying those bills regular like we were before but also adding the lower payment for all of them  
so we were paying like twice  
um so we didn't ever make that mistake again luckily  
but uh we're definitely working on not doing that credit thing  
we just  
as a matter of fact this it's real interesting the subjects i get  
they always seem to be so [pertinent]  
but we just discussed this last night at church talking about debt and things like that  
it's so so [alluring] and   uh so easy to get  
uh sometimes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
oh i just picked up my daughter  
and she was eating a [cupcake] and now her crumbs all over  
yeah  
what a mess you are  
oh so i don't know if i if i i just feel kind of  
my big thing was my husband really wanted to get rid of our visa card  
and i just thought you know if we ever had something go wrong with our refrigerator or something you know   and we had to had to buy one then we would really need that  
and so he said okay we'll keep it  
and then we weren't smart enough to not use it  
so  
hello  
hello  
oh well i'm glad you found me  
yes  
my name is carolyn  
okay  
i'll just let you start  
i think they are too  
and unfortunately um we use ours in we don't use them all the time  
but we use them like at christmas time  
and then it seems like it takes all year to pay them off when you use them like that  
but um i would love to just take some [scissors] and cut them in half  
i think sometimes when you look at the interest that you're paying on them um that's what gets to be the really scary part you know if you think when it comes around to income tax time and you look at how much money you paid out just in interest all year  
you could really get a lot more stuff   if you were just able to pay outright for it  
that's right   yeah  
all i know is some of my credit cards  
like um we have a sears one  
and we always get a maintenance agreement every year  
and it's just easier to say you know just put that on my credit card  
well that's probably four or five hundred dollars you know that goes on at that point  
and then it seems like takes forever to pay that off  
wow  
it sure is  
we eventually did  
one time we just borrowed took a personal loan and paid off all our credit cards  
and the interest on the loan was cheaper   than it was you know to just have that  
we haven't done it lately  
we probably need to do it again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
i know  
they really encourage you not to go into debt for anything except for maybe your house and   your car  
and uh if you could stick to that you know we'd get rid of a lot of [indigestion] and   everything else  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
you know one thing you might do with in a situation like that though it's just like keep  
um i do  
what what do you think about them  
yeah  
definitely  
i have one right now  
and um i just got it about eight six months ago  
and i find that it makes it a lot easier to get things that you generally wouldn't get  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
really  
that's good  

yeah  
i i made a rule with myself when i got one that if i couldn't pay it in full every month that i'd have to rip it up  
so  
that's  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
i have i have a couple friends too that have about three of them maxed out  
and they   they can't do anything but work to try to pay them off  
and and and like one of my friends she has hers is up to nine hundred dollars  
and she she only earns like two hundred dollars a month because she's going to school  
and and so i mean that's just enough to pay rent and buy like thirty five dollars worth of food a month so and and pay for her like like monthly fee like  
i guess you have to pay like twenty dollars each month is the  
so all she's paying is interest on hers every month  
it just seems crazy to to me  
but  
yeah  
oh really  
was a visa card  
oh my goodness  
i bet  
yeah  
i i don't know  
i'm about sick of mine right now  
i don't  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
my parents are really good about not using credit cards  
they are against it  
i don't think they like the fact that i have one either  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
i'm i'm twenty right now  
so just going to school and and working  
so  
it does kind of get in the  
when you want something that  
like last weekend was homecoming  
and i needed   a pair of shoes  
so i just went out and bought them and   on my credit card  
i didn't really have the money to do it  
but  
yeah  
it sure is  
so do you just have two kids  
or  
oh really  
neat  
i'm from plano texas  
but right now i'm out in provo utah going to b y u  
so  
yep  
but this is a extra long one  
they're giving us a lot of time  
yeah  
have you done a lot of this  
oh really  
do you do it every day  

so do you have an opinion on credit cards  
you do  
i think they get a lot of people in trouble  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then you don't stop to realize that you know  
you charge this for twenty charge that for twenty charge this for twenty  
and pretty soon you owe a hundred dollars  
and you don't stop to think about it  
i got in trouble when i was in the service quite a few years ago like ten to fifteen thousand dollars in trouble  
and then you know so i eventually got it all paid  
now i carry one  
i have a gas card and a visa card  
and i never use them unless i need to  
so   but they  
yeah  
that's a good idea   stops all them interest rates  
and interest rates aren't none too shallow these days anyway  
but i know a lot of people that get in trouble with them especially you know  
we have  
i'm in lubbock  
and we have a bunch of college kids around here going to tech  
and they seem to get in trouble with them a lot  
yeah  
gee  
yes  
something like that  
yeah  
well my wife got in trouble one time with hers  
she was making like i don't know what she was making forty five dollars a month i think  
and fifteen dollars of it was because she was over the limit  
and fifteen dollars of it was interest  
so she was only paying in it fifteen dollars a month  
so and that was before we got married  
so  
but it's  
you know we sat down and talked about it and discussed it  
and it's it's come out pretty good  
now we have a eighteen year old that's fixing to get out of high school and go to college  
that's the first thing he wanted  
yeah  
so we kind of discussed that a little bit and shot that idea down right quick  
you know so  
but i think they're too readily accessible  
and there's too many companies out there that are willing to give them to you and get you get you trapped  
i mean you can always file bankruptcy to get out of it  
but that's a lot of pain and hassle  
when you know in the [olden] days when my parents were growing up and we couldn't afford everything we didn't have such things as credit cards  
we just waited until time come around that we could afford it  
and you know we had all the necessities  
so and i very seldom use a credit card on necessities  
i always use it for something i want not something i need  
so  
yeah  
i think if card cards were as as stringent as say a a home mortgage loan or something like that where you have to you know be able to prove that you can afford this and the rest of your bills we probably wouldn't have the problems we have  
of course we wouldn't have the [retail] market we have either  
so i guess they trade one for the other  
i disagree with it  
but they still trade one for the other  
well that's good  
i'm  
it sounds like you kind of got your head together in the credit department for  
you sound pretty young  
so  
are you  
yeah  
all right  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's pretty easy  
uh we have a eighteen year old seventeen year old and a seven year old  
yeah  
oh are you  
are you a you're a mormon then  
oh all right  
what's that  
oh yeah  
they may not they must not have too much traffic on saturdays  
uh fifteen or twenty i guess  
oh yeah  
i try to every day  
i uh i get calls at work  
i get calls at home  
so  
doug you want to start  
you don't use any credit cards i don't imagine  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you use them a lot  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well that's an idea  
that's a thought  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
my husband loves them  
uh we do use them  
uh we try not to  
but he he's one who believes in credit cards  
and he uses them quite a bit  
he likes using them and then just pay at the end of the month  
he he likes that  
uh_huh  
and that's when you get into expenses  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well sometimes you do come on bargains and that  
and it's really useful  
and some places won't take you know like personal checks or cash even  
but they would take a credit card  
uh_huh  
right  
we  
yeah  
we have the same thing up here  
so we don't deal where they do that  
we you know we go to places where they don't charge extra  
some of them charge five cents a gallon even  
like the gas stations more  
and uh we just try to avoid you know the ones that do that  
we just don't uh go there   because there's enough other ones around that don't charge you anything  
extra   because actually to me credit cards are the same as cash  
to me they are anyway  
right  
right  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
right  
well i can't say we never have  
now we have you know at times made payments   on our things  
but we try not to  
we try hard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because sometimes uh there's times when you may maybe couldn't take advantage of something  
but with a credit card you can  
so  
uh  
well i think we're [narrowing] it down actually  
uh uh like i said my husband likes them  
and we have quite a few  
but we really get when you get down to the nitty gritty there's probably three that we use   most of the time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
well it's not every week  
but you you do get them  
they make it very readily available  
almost too much so  
but i i really don't like it the charges that you know  
we try to limit look at that also  
what they charge per year   to use our money you know  
they're charging us to spend our money  
and i i'm not real crazy about that  
so we try to look at that also  
uh_huh  
right  
sure  
no  
of course i use   credit cards  
i have a couple of credit cards   and uh use them  
oh we try not to  
we're on a pretty strict and tight budget  
we use the credit cards however when we're at a situation where we don't have either the cash or the checkbook handy  
or we use credit cards also if we want to get an extended warranty on an item that we're purchasing  
so   so yes  
and basically we use it mainly when we're traveling   or out of state or   or somewhere where you know they don't take local they don't take out of state checks  
and so when we're traveling some  
do you use credit cards often  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well   that's that's a good thing because lot of people don't pay at the end of the month  
and they just pay the minimum required balance  
yes  
and you get in over your head  
it'll uh  
some people i know also try to use it as float   where they buy something now  
and say well i'm going to buy this when it's good and on sale  
and then i can   go ahead and pay for it when i get my check at the end of the month  
when i'm being paid  
that's true  
uh_huh  
right  
how how are the laws in pennsylvania uh as as regard well not the laws but the rates credit card rates in pennsylvania  
for example down here when you go up to a gas station   you get an extra charge for credit cards   than you would by paying for cash  
are they the same there  
that's pretty steep  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
because you make the deduction at the time of the purchase  
and and so that   the end of the month or when you get your credit card bill   are you saying that that way you're not left stranded   and high and dry  
very good  
you're you're one of the good i guess good faithful [shoppers] that don't get into a problem when it comes to budgeting their money  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
well i see that as an advantage to a credit card also  
that you can   can find yourselves in those situations and use a credit card to   to help yourself  
so i think that there's a great advantage to a credit card in those situations  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um do you have uh multiple credit cards  
and do you find that advantageous  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
we're we're actually in the same boat  
we like to use three uh basic credit cards  
that way we're not confused  
and we don't have an awful lot of expenses or surprises when it comes   the end of the month  
and do you find that you get an awful lot of credit card applications through the mail  
once a week  
twice a week  
or three times a week  
yeah  
right  
so the annual fee  
right  
right  
yes  
so there is the basic annual fee for the credit card   plus they charge any where from seventeen to twenty three percent   uh based upon what the state will allow  
um i think i'm down to one  
well no  
i was pulling your leg  
i i well  
the way i'd like to try and use it is um you you you make your purchases at at prime buying time  
and then you pay that off and don't use it until uh it's paid off  
that's that's my ideal way  
emergencies come along  
and i   and i use it  
uh like uh my car uh had a major problem and   seven hundred dollars  
and   uh things just come up  
and you just never get to use it the way you'd really like to  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i know i was up in there and a lot of credit cards  
and i was just starting to get to where it was getting me in trouble  
so we just disposed of them paid them off and   got out of it  
i just  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well now we pretty much just pay cash for   as much as we can there  
our our only credit card is sears  
so   and i have that for automotive purposes  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's just too easy basically uh just get yourself in trouble with those  
i see  
yeah  
uh i wouldn't mind uh you know getting back into one if they would you know  
you start out at a low limit  
and then they just keep wanting you to increase your limit  
and and if i can get one that'll keep my limit at five hundred   and i can never go over that or something   like that then that's fine  
but they  
eventually get's up there to five thousand ten thousand whatever   fifty thousand  
forget it  
i don't want that  
yeah  
so i don't know  
just uh  
writing checks is just as easy i guess  
yeah  
well really  
what what can you  
other than you use them or you don't use them  
you like them  
or you don't like them  
so  
i guess uh they don't care if we end it early  
so uh hopefully uh you have a good thanksgiving  
that's coming up  
and   and then uh maybe we'll talk again  
yeah  
texas is the big one  
okay then  
well bye now  
so how many um credit cards do you have  
oh my gosh  
i wish i was that way  
is that why you said i had more experience than you  
oh  
well how how do you use your credit card  
i mean do you just keep it in reserve  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how how do you use it  
yeah  
that's understandable exactly  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well actually i do have quite a few more credit cards than you have  
um and i use them you know  
like my american express i use for you know gas things like that  
and i pay that off monthly  
and then um some other credit cards like store credit cards you know i do have them up there a little bit  
but uh  
i try not to use them too often  
but living in this area uh like i live fifteen miles west of washington d c  
it's a very expensive area  
so sometimes you have no other choice if you need to buy something  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that was good that you had the opportunity to do that  
uh_huh  
now are you married that you both you and your wife use a credit card  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh um  
right  
right  
well well that's great  
um everyone i know here uses um credit cards like they're going out of business   to be honest with you  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the only other one i have  
i have like a [diner's] club through my um where i work  
so that i use because i travel some  
so i use that  
and i don't really have to worry about that because i only use it for business  
so i automatically have the money to pay it off  
but um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um the [temptation's] too great  
um  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
but so i guess uh we've kind of exhausted this uh topic  
yeah  
you can't say too much about it really  
uh_huh  
okay  
you too  
yeah  
may be  
you're the furthest person actually that i've talked  
i've talked to a lot of people in texas  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
okay  
bye bye  
laurie  
okay  
i'm supposed to ask you how do you make use of your credit cards  
and i'm supposed to compare those with my my habits  
yes  
right  
no  
i do not  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
sure  
well myself i always  
i'm i'm a traveling person  
and i'm out of town quite a bit  
so i use credit cards quite a lot also as far as everything from service work and gasoline in my car to my [lounging] entertainment and for everything  
so that's uh  
as far as using them outside that i'm not i don't use them too much  
but i i think my wife is sort of like you  
she uses a credit card   most of the time  
so she does most of the shopping for our household  
so she'll use them more than i will  
yes  
so it's me i'm always i'm the guy that always goes to like dillard's  
and i'll go in and charge something  
and i'll have to give them my driver's license  
they'll have to look up the number because i'm never carrying a credit card  
but i do carry like my american express and my visa which i use for you know primarily work type things  
this is my first call by the way  
so  
oh is it really  
all right  
so we're both [beginners] then  
i've had this for a couple weeks  
and i've been out of town  
so this is my first time to   to use it  
so  
no  
i was given this topic  
yeah  
they give you they assign you a topic  
you call the eight hundred number  
have you tried it yet  
okay  
when you call the eight hundred number they assign you a topic and uh pretty uh cut and dried  
i'm not sure  
a couple  
about two three minutes i think  
but i really don't have too much more to say in regards to credit cards  
i  
one thing i've always tried to do is when i get my credit cards i always try to pay them off because i just sort of [detest] paying interest  
and uh  
like years ago my wife and i got married  
she was the one with a little bit than i was because i had my credit cards i think up to the limit  
and i was giving everyone ten dollars a month and everything like that  
that was like thirty years ago  
so now it's a little different  
we  
i get a bill  
and i'll pay it the same day it comes  
in   or at least i try to  
and i just kind of tell my kids how much i hate paying interest  
so they should follow the same rule  
oh you bet it's  
it's an absolute savings  
you bet  
that's that's very handy  
well i think that's all i have  
nice to meet you  
and uh give it a try  
i think you'll enjoy it  
okay  
thank you  
bye  
yes  
okay  
how do i make use of credit cards  
um let's see  
i carry a lot of credit cards with me mostly because i don't ever have cash  
and i i  
do you work for texas instruments  
okay  
well at t i we have to use what's called a tex teller   if we want to get cash out  
and those are only available at t i  
so if i'm in a mall or something i can't get cash out without paying extra money  
so i'm always using credit cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but do you get to pay the bills  
same at my house  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh it's mine too  
yes  
yeah  
oh okay  
okay  
now did you pick this topic  
or were you given  
i see  
okay  
right  
no  
huh  
okay  
um let's see  
so how long are we supposed to talk for  
okay  
oh yes  
definitely  
uh_huh  
oh  
that will cost you a fortune  
yes  
yes  
that's right  
well yeah  
if you pay it that way it i mean it really is it's like getting a free loan for a while   which is what i do  
or if you travel for work and you get your reimbursement before the bill comes in   you get to keep the money  
yeah  
it works great  
okay  
well it was nice to meet you  
okay  
thanks  
bye bye  
where are you bob  
oh okay  
i am in waco  
yeah  
right down the street  
oh credit cards  
my favorite subject  
oh do i  
yeah  
mostly over christmas  
uh i get in a [rut] with credit cards cause they get me kind of in a vicious cycle where you use them a lot one month and then you have to use whatever money you have to pay those off  
and so then you have no money  
so you use a credit card  
yeah  
uh i probably have one of every credit card there is  
do you use them a lot  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that is a good idea  
is that   that through a visa  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is my problem  
i don't try and pay them off  
i pay like the minimum  
i know  
so i have got myself  
exactly  
i have got that is why i have got myself with all this trouble now  
but i pay most of them on time and everything  
it is just the  
i always have them  
so it is kind of strange  
oh yeah  
exactly like the government  
in   in debt  
yeah  
have they put the cap on the interest rates  
i didn't know if they actually did that or not  
i know they were considering it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
funny how that works isn't it  
i would be interested to find out how many people or how much uh people use credit this year say in nineteen ninety two as opposed to nineteen ninety one even nineteen ninety  
i think i think it would be amazing how much how many more people use it  
because of the economy  
yeah  
exactly  
i would be very i would like to see some numbers on that  
i think that would be interesting  
yeah  
i have a credit union  
yeah  
they do  
uh_huh  
yes  
i do  
yes  
i do a matter of fact  
uh i work for channel six  
it's it's an n b c affiliate down here  
oh really  
oh okay  
where do you work  
what is your  
oh okay  
oh okay  
so you probably work with uh uh  
what is the boy from here  
you ever work with davis  
davis iron work  
yeah  
oh okay  
and uh what else  
well i live actually in hewett  
yeah  
right outside  
so that is where davis iron works is  
uh  
i don't think i have seen that one  
i am sure i pass by it or something  
but i am not sure  
huh prime air  
oh okay  
okay  
have you ever been to marlin  
i think it is marlin or mart  
they have uh uh a place i guess that would be similar to prime air  
it is called h g h   or something like k g h or  
i can't think of it  
i can't think of the name  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i don't like that drive  
i make that drive sometimes  
we have stories out there  
but uh  
huh  
oh really  
i know  
oh goodness  
they they are bad at hewett too on eighty four  
they are real bad  
that is where i got my last ticket  
so of course i couldn't pay that on a credit card  
i am in plano  
where are you  
is that right  
oh okay  
you mean you use credit cards  
i bet you used them all up over christmas  
and then your are in debt  
i understand that  
well uh it kind of comes and goes uh  
i use uh [citibank] the uh advantage one   pretty much cause you get vantage points for every dollar you spend  
once a year i get a free airplane ride that way  
so as long as you pay it off every month it doesn't cost you anything  
that is what i  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh i got all sorts of credit cards for my business that i use  
but uh   if i can get away with paying them off every month it is alright  
if i don't then it gets expensive  
well you shouldn't do that  
you never you never get out of the hole that way  
kind of like the federal government right  
can't never get out of debt  
and every time you try to get out of debt the economy goes to pot because people are spending money right  
no  
just the people who don't need credit get the four and a half percent  
the rest of the uh and me we have got to pay fourteen and eighteen percent  
the [thou] who doesn't need credit gets cheap credit  
well i think so  
because the  
that's right  
you have got to use everything you have got just to stay where you are at  
do you do you have any uh credit union where you work or anything like that  
do they have a mastercard or visa card  
you have got that one  
who who do you work for  
oh  
i do a lot of work down in waco  
a   lot of i call on a lot of my business is down there  
i sell metal fabricating equipment and tooling  
[tyme] and mercury and [tempco] and all those people   down there  
uh gene  
davis iron  
yeah  
matter of fact i just saw them last week  
are you in that part are you in the south part of town now  
oh yeah  
okay  
you know   do you know parker machine tool down there  
bobby parker and uh  
there is a place in hewett called  
it is a new company called prime air  
that is in hewett just around the corner from davis iron works  
they make uh [humidifiers] and   uh filters for air [filtration] stuff for   hospitals homes something like that  
uh yeah  
oh really  
huh  
huh  
i will have to stop in there  
i went i have gone through there uh  
my oldest son goes to a and m  
he is working on his master's  
the navy sent him there for his master's mostly in engineering  
so once and a while we go up six there rather than take forty five  
that is about the last time i have been through marlin and mart  
there is always a state trooper down there  
you have got to drive careful  
between mart and marlin they will nail you if you go over sixty miles an hour  
uh_huh  

uh_huh  
yeah  
they seem to be a part of life  
yeah  
how do you use them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i use a few  
i uh i watched my grandmother go into debt   on them  
and so i've  
and then i guess my   mother  
yeah  
so my mother learned from that  
and i guess she taught me to be very very careful with them  
so basically uh i just keep them  
i use them so that i build up a credit rating you know  
but otherwise uh i generally  
and my husband it turns out  
i've just been married seven months  
but he has the same habit  
and we just keep a few   you know few of the major ones and then use them once in a while for something  
but we always pay it off right that month   so that we don't pay any   service charge  
so that way we keep out of debt  
and we keep on top of what we're spending  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what i feel  
so  
uh_huh  
it's really easy just to forget you know that you you charged that or charged that  
i try to keep all my receipts and keep them in someplace where i know that the [bill's] going to come  
but sometimes i forget  
and so you know a bill will come in  
and i'll think oh no   i didn't know it was going to be that high  
but so far i've been able to we've been able to pay it off every time  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
have you ever used discover card  
yeah  
i'm not even sure what their interest rate is since i pay it off  
but you know  
uh i think sears originally   put it out  
but it's uh it's pretty well taken all over the u s now  
i mean uh i've haven't found many places that don't take discover  
and there's no annual service fee which is good  
you know and then uh they also give you they say cash back uh like at the end of the year  
for the amount that i charge i get two dollars back or something  
but if you use credit cards a lot you probably get more back  
yeah  
basically  
that's it  
and i think the service charge is pretty low too  
but i'm not sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it's best to keep the number down   that you have  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well   do you have anything else to say  
okay  
i don't think i do either  
so  
well it was good talking to you  
okay  
have a good evening  
bye bye  
well i suppose we both have credit cards  
yeah  
well i do use them  
uh i have a few favorites that i use more than others  
and uh i try to keep my balances fairly reasonable  
i i could probably pay them off any month if i wanted to  
uh but occasionally they can get out of hand and get higher when when you start using more than a few  
and uh they all can build up  
uh i think they're handy  
i just get uh  
i don't carry a lot of cash with me  
and uh i hate writing checks   when you go shopping  
well do you use credit cards  
uh_huh  
grandmother  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's good  
oh that's   that's wonderful  
well the interest rates in credit cards is so high now   compared to what you're savings is bringing  
it's really i guess ridiculous to let them keep building  
but i know some people can get get you know carried away with them and let them get   out of hand  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's good  
i'm looking right now i'm kind of looking for a visa that has a lower interest rate  
it seems that some of them have gotten higher  
and uh i saw on t v they had a program on uh credit cards  
and they're supposed to  
i don't know if it was tennessee or arkansas or some some other state had a visa card that was the lowest one in the country  
and i   didn't write it down at the time  
and then i went and looked and to see what my visa was  
and i think it's eighteen percent or something  
so think i want to find something that has a lower   rate  
no  
i haven't  
is that the one from sears  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh they give you money back for using your credit card  
oh  
i didn't know that  
um well you know sears was one of the few department stores that never would take any other credit cards  
i worked at sears for over ten years  
and uh it was only a sears card that they would take   until i guess they decided to join the club and come up with their own credit card another credit card that was   accepted  
so you know now they'll take the discover  
but i still don't know if sears will take visa or mastercard  
but uh   i never did apply for a discover card  
i just figure with the visa and   american express i probably have an  
i can do enough damage with those two  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've got some that i you know i haven't even used at all uh past few years  
i probably wouldn't be able to use them  
but uh i i do like my dillard's  
i have to admit that's one of my favorite places to shop  
and i do use dillard's probably as more than any of the other department stores  
but  
well  
no  
not too much more about credit cards  
okay  
well  
good talking to you beth  
good luck  
you too  
bye  
well credit cards  
i'll tell you what i i can't say a whole lot about credit cards because i uh tore mine up  
yeah  
uh i got in some problems with uh financial problems because of credit cards  
so i uh basically just got rid of all of them  
i i have a a couple  
i have a uh gas card that i that i use just for gas and   you know uh one that i use just for emergencies  
but  
yeah  
i know it  
uh_huh  
oh is that right  
that's a that's a good policy  
yeah  
yeah  
uh sometimes i wish i had them  
but in most cases i'm glad i don't   because i you know unfortunately i i i don't have the control you have  
i wish i did  
but   but i don't  
uh and it you know it  
i just don't want to get into that situation again  
so   we'll  
oh that's it  
see and that's  
even with my gas card   you know i find that i'll go in to get some gas  
and i'll end up buying you know candy and drinks and   you know sweets and whatever  
and then at the end of the month i you know i get a bill  
and i'm thinking   what did i get   that costs so much  
and  
yeah  
that that's true  
but i can i can certainly understand where  
you know  
oh yeah  
isn't it  
that's unbelievable  
how  
let me ask you this  
how how old are you  
thirty three  
okay  
you'll be thirty three this year  
you want to be thirty two as long as you can huh  
it's coming  
yeah  
i i know what you mean about the interest rates it's uh it's unbelievable  
uh_huh  
oh jeez  
yeah  
and then you bet  
that's  
uh yeah  
i in fact i've i've even uh heard some people that have applied for credit cards with much less uh   rates   and have paid off their you know   higher interest rate uh   cards and just sent them back you know  
and i i guess there's some there's uh uh some [negotiating] there too  
because i heard uh  
on one of the local talk shows here they had somebody on and and said what you can do is uh call you know  
if you've got a pretty good rating uh credit rating   you can call your you know your your card wherever you got your card from and tell them hey either drop my rates   or drop my you know uh   annual fees or i'll just go to somewhere else  
you know and if you've got if you've got a pretty good   uh uh history with them   they're more than willing to do that  
yeah  
in fact that's that's what this guy  
you know he wrote a book on it  
and he says that's you know he's tried it with several of his cards  
and he's just told them you know i i can get this card from this bank at this rate  
and yours is at you know eighteen or nineteen percent  
it does not make sense for me to do that  
and if you won't drop my rates i'll just go ahead and send you back your card  
and i'll go somewhere else and get it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is that right  
i i know i know some other people that have done that  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i have we have some some friends that did the exactly the same thing  
they uh you know they kind of overextended and borrowed and borrowed  
and finally they realized that they were they were abusing them and weren't going to get out of the hole  
and they just cut them all up except for for one they kept for emergencies  
and   they're still paying away to get out of debt  
but no  
i did just the opposite  
i i guess i i sort of followed in my uh parents' [footsteps]  
i have quite a few of them  
i   use them continually  
but i uh i basically never charge anything i don't have the money in the bank to pay for  
and uh and i always pay them off totally every month  
yeah  
yeah  
and it you know i mean they they're just a convenience for me  
i don't have to get cash out of the bank  
and i don't have to to be writing checks  
and   and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean it it's easy  
i mean you don't have anything [transferring] just a little signature  
so what you know  
uh_huh  
right  
surprising  
yeah  
well you know but the  
i mean there are sort some inherent limits there  
you're not going to you're not going to run up a few thousand dollars for that  
right  
now i  

the thing that probably helps me most doing that is really you know uh not so much discipline  
i mean well i mean you have sort of a discipline in general about finances  
but but i hate their their rates so badly i mean   their interest rates so badly   that i  
i'm uh thirty three  
thirty two  
excuse me  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you know i just that just irritates me so much that that i refuse to pay them interest  
and and my wife recently uh decided she had to go to brazil and was going to take off  
and she's from there and   and uh didn't really have the money  
but you know she could pay it off  
and so i   sort of reluctantly let her put it on credit cards  
but she's paying it  
and uh i just won't do it  
i mean she's paying i don't know i don't know what per month you know forty fifty dollars per month in interest  
and i just   you know i just refuse to give it to them  
if i need to borrow that kind of money i'll go to the bank  
and uh  
you know  
income  
oh yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
high  
i might  
um  
right  
um i might try that because i i have one card that i've had for about uh i don't know nine or ten years  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
for me the big thing you know is the uh uh is the annual fee  
and i just refuse  
i won't get any card now  
i've i've got a good rating  
and i've got you know  
and i'm not going i'm not going to pay an annual fee  
the only one i actually pay on is this one that i that the very first  
i pushed it  
so how do you use your credit cards  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's me  
i won't use one that i have to pay an annual fee  
you know and um i'm uh like you i i use it well to buy my gas with  
my my shell credit card i use that  
and then like my [emporium] card and uh [weinstocks] card i use that  
but i'm like you  
i usually pay it off as soon as i get my bill  
why i don't just write a check i don't know  
you know it's just really weird  
but i i don't carry a lot of cash with me because i'm   always afraid that someone's going to steal my purse  
yeah  
you know enough for a phone call  
and that's about all  
but uh other than that that's the that's the way i use them  
i know some people that uses them so bad that every one of them that they've got they they can't charge any more   you know  
and i think that's terrible  
oh yeah  
yeah  
because if anything ever happens that you do need to you know you have excellent credit  
why it really does help  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think it's better to use credit cards too like i say because there's so many people around any more that's watching what you're doing  
and if you pull a [wad] of money out of your pocket they're going to hit you over the head  
i know  
it just uh you know it just seems like they're somebody's always watching  
so i just don't i don't carry money  
i'd just soon use my credit cards and   just pay them off you know  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
and you know some of those stores don't even seem to check your signature or anything   you know  
i don't know why they don't unless you have to spend a certain  
i don't know  
but i notice that some of them don't even look you know  
they just slide it in there and pass it back to you   you know  
so i don't think that's right  
i think they should check it to make sure that the signature at least matches you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well let's see  
what else can i say about credit cards  
um  
yeah  
i don't i don't uh  
that that's that sears discovery card  
is that what that  
yeah  
now i don't have that one you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you mean uh for for your using your credit card you get like a rebate or something  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
um i see  
yeah  
well i'll  
okay  
oh we use them for   paying our gas and for paying uh just about anything because um we don't like to pay for our checks  
so we use it quite a bit  
but we we pay off every month though  
so we never have to pay interest  
and we always we never get the the credit cards if there's a monthly or a yearly charge  
we always get it through our bank or somewhere where it's free  
so we never have to pay anything extra  
yeah  
we just don't think it's worth it  
so  
see well you i don't do it either  
yeah  
yes  
exactly  
that's how i  
i mean it's a rare day when i even have seventy five cents in my purse  
yeah  
yeah  
because it's really it helps your if you have good credit you know it helps you in the long run when you want to go make a   bigger purchase or something  
yeah  
and i think it's more convenient too in a lot of cases  
like whenever we go on trips we always you know use our our visa or our mastercard or whatever  
and then um you know we really don't have to pay for it out of our own pockets until about a month later  
and so it helps us gain interest in the bank that when we do it  
we come out a even a little bit ahead because we've been able to use whatever first off and then pay   for it later  
oh yeah  
yeah  
even if it's five bucks even  
yeah  
and also if you if someone did happen to steal your credit card my husband was saying that if you know you notice it within i think it's twenty four hours you can report it in  
and i he said the most you'd ever have to pay is fifty dollars for them to cancel you know whatever payments you had  
and if   whoever tried to uh you know credit it to the [hilt] you'd only have to pay fifty dollars of it  
and then   you know you can have your card back with   pretty good rating you know because you can pay fifty dollars but not you know   maybe five thousand or whatever  
i know  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
sure  
i mean it's just a precaution for everybody  
yeah  
so  
um  
oh i also use like to use discover when i can because they give you some money back every year  
yeah  
yeah  
well we just started doing that  
and   you know what  
it comes in handy for when you're buying things like um tickets for the train or um airplanes   because they'll give you some money back you know  
and it's only a little bit  
but i mean it's still something  
we got two fifty last year  
and so it's you know it helps out here and there  
so  
yeah  
they give you i think they start giving you like a half a percent back which doesn't sound like a thing  
but when you you know when you add up everything you've you've charged up on the discover card for a year  
and they give you a half percent of that  
and that adds up to you know two fifty or something  
and so that's what  
and i know we're going to get back more this year because they you know we spent a little bit more   probably  
and they do it for how long you've been a member i think too  
and they increase the percentage a little bit  
okay
oh yes
and i believe we all do
and it's it's just too easy to use
oh i believe that uh mine would say the same uh but uh i seem too rely on them too much
um
it uh you know i seem to uh use those more than i do cash
in fact i'd rather carry the cards than i would the uh cash
uh yes
yes
that's real easy to do
i have to watch it in fact yeah
uh we i can understand that [predicament] um they they've um you know they've made them too easy and too accessible at everything to to buy
oh yes
and then plus then you for end up forgetting to write it down
oh uh_huh
oh that's good
oh yes
yes
uh and then then then that gets into a vicious circle as far as you know paying off the the loan that you just got from the credit card to pay off the other loan
oh no
um yeah
the a t m's they're but they're nice though to have in case you need to get some quick cash and everything is closed
oh that's the best way it's used that's the best way
yes
i think that sort of [evens] it out as far as uh letting them carry it so as long as they do buy us something
and see there's no [secrecy] to that because the bill always comes in and we know how much they pay for it
oh i have to open it you know they mine always charges the flowers so i can always end up saying oh you spent too much you know
and so yeah
oh those are fun
you get started on them and can't quit just exactly
oh it's it's real easy to get addicted to them you know you get out on a shopping frenzy and uh just charge it all
and then you don't have to write a check or anything
yeah
there is a a fear to it
as far as what happens if
yeah
oh yeah
that's
oh yeah
there's that's a weakness there
that's just you know you you always want to get your kids everything
and uh you don't care how much it costs or what it takes
uh_huh
yeah
that's uh
i always end up going into wal mart
and coming out with everything that uh i didn't have on the list
we're just getting more than what we went in for
uh_huh
oh yeah
it's dangerous
uh_huh
oh yeah
it's just too easy to do you go in for just one thing we're we're [infamous] about that
and so
oh well yeah
i well i'm i'm glad we have credit cards
that's uh because in
sometimes when there's an emergency it it comes in handy
it's nice to have
yeah
we've yeah
we've had uh a sick animal
and uh the vet you know the dog and [vet's] are so expensive that uh we uh the credit card helped us a lot there too
so we wouldn't do without them
huh_uh
no
no
i think it's become too much of an everyday life here they're a part of it
the balance
oh yes
uh_huh
so you know he can't spend too much
yes
uh_huh
i was i was just uh
oh well let's see
i guess we've talked what almost five minutes
oh i wish i had one of those
oh did you see there you go
oh your up in memphis
oh your in texas oh okay
i was going to go goodness
they really got uh this out far
yeah
yeah
i'm down in houston
oh okay
yeah
uh_huh
well oh this has been just great
this was the first one i had
uh_huh
my husband did one last night
and he just loved it
he's been getting he got a real good topic
and so well uh
yeah
i was just trying to think uh i think we've pretty much said it all yeah
so uh but yeah
uh_huh
i think we couldn't make it without them
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
but uh we uh we try to keep uh uh tight controls over them
but it it gets hard like especially around christmas time and birthdays oh goodness
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
it gets rough
that's hard
get that cash advance uh_huh
yeah
it uh it
but see it does come in handy those they do
they're worth it
so well i i think we've pretty much come to an end here
i think it was at least five minutes wasn't it
okay
um do you have a credit card
i know i've got one i did have two
and the i found that um it just made me spend a little more so when i paid one of them off
i got rid of it
now i have two only have one
um i don't know
i always used to be the person that would put something on and pay the bill right out
and now i've at every christmas
it seems the last few [christmases] i used it for christmas
and i'm still paying it off
i don't know i consider myself pretty good
but sometimes i can go out and i can i can over [overspend] my budget
i guess i can afford it
but it is it's a pain paying it off
i don't i don't know um i had uh i have seven hundred dollars in mine now
and i've saved up enough money where i'm going to bring it down to two hundred and hopefully i can keep it around there
yeah
i know a lot of people have
i mean fifteen hundred dollars
two thousand dollars
but um i don't know
i never i never liked loans a lot
so i'm not a heavy credit card user
i have a girl friend that she probably has two thousand dollars on couple credit cards
so i know it's easy to do
especially if you if you have a job where you have to buy nice clothes and things
it it
i think that is the biggest problem when you really not
you don't don't really need the stuff
but the
nicer looking clothes are the more expensive
nicely tailored clothes even though you could probably get away with a cotton dress
you got to go out and buy the [rayon] dress
or something you know you got to be they say you have to dress for success
yeah
how many credit cards do you have
that's pretty good
yeah
my husband won't even put his name on it
i don't believe in those
it's like but the time we went to florida and needed to rent a car you know he believed in it
you've got to have a credit
card to rent a car
yep
that's up here at some if it's if you're not in your home town you have to show them a credit card
well actually if your check [bounces] i guess they could legally take it off your credit card
if that's why they're taking it
i mean i don't know how fair
that is
but i don't know um yeah
i guess that percentage rates are like eighteen percent
yeah
thirteen
that's not bad
yeah
then you have to pay your fee and american express you're really it's not a credit card because you have to pay it off
at the end of the month
but the fee for that
it's really expensive
isn't it
i've never had one
oh
that's good
yeah
if he they they they have you pay it right out every month
yeah
because it's uh
i know especially if your uh your reimbursement didn't come through
from your company because i know they i don't know why
but you can use american express
and they give you an [itemized] bill
you can use that i don't know why you can't use other credit cards for business that way
american express
yep
this is this is it actually kind a boring subject of credit cards you really
you just know some people abuse them
but not a joke about the person who pays their master card off with their visa
i bet you
there are people that do that
people get a cash advance on one credit card to pay the other
i think they charge more for cash advances so
yeah
you can't get cash advances oh
oh well no
uh it it think that's a really bad plan in your budgeting if you have to pay one card off with another oh eventually
no
it doesn't be solid for a couple of weeks then you get both bills back
i know credit cards almost seem unfair to a person who's who's got a victim of impulse buying
like unfair advertising or something
huh_uh
oh wow
and we used to lose four percent on the credit card orders yeah
it's it's the thing if if a business is taking a credit card they're they sacrificing something too
it seems the credit card company makes money all the way around
because it is a four percent that they take
three or four percent
i don't know which put you in better rating yep
because when i used to go to the bank
i used to take it off the deposit
yeah
you do have to take it off your deposit yeah
so it is a a service that they're offering i i know
should own stock
there instead of these uh banks going that are [folding] but i wonder how much is numbers how many billions of dollars
it's got to be billions of dollars
yeah
that's uh probably true
i mean you have the principal debt the car loan and your house loan
and then there's all the merchandise you buy on your credit cards
[sheesh] maybe they don't
yeah
i know i had a girl friend she just got married out of college
and the husband had [confiscate] her credit cards
i mean i don't know
it's probably they're always saying the women are doing are the spending ones
but i haven't heard uh a single woman taking their credit card away from the man
well i don't know
i i definitely want to get up mine paid off month to month
like i used to
and just as soon as i get it paid off
i'll probably get laid off
all right
i have some
do you
yes
me too
well i have uh we've got an american express which we got that on purpose
so we could pay that off every month
that way we we know our limit
but then i also have department stores
and um you know we keep a couple hundred dollars
um if that much charged on those which isn't too bad
it's just your normal
you know getting clothes and stuff
every once in awhile
exactly
uh_huh
right
yeah
right
just your visa yeah
yeah
i you know uh people always complain about american express saying not enough people take it
but i've i've rarely found a place that wouldn't
that wouldn't take it so that doesn't bother me
luckily
uh_huh
oh does it
sure
that's true
that's true
that's that's real nice to
that's true
uh_huh
paid back
i know
when we first got married we you know went and got all the credit cards and of course charged those puppies up and it's oh boy
when those bills start coming in
they want a lot of money when you sure kick them up there
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's good
uh_huh
that's good
i've noticed on the like the department stores they sure do hate it when you pay double payments
you know it's like whoa
wait a minute don't pay us too much you know
and they drop it your balance uh they drop your monthly payment down low
because they want that interest to build up
so that's what i normally try to do if it's pretty low i try to make a couple payments at a time
and get it down quicker
but they're easy to use
no
have you
uh_huh
i don't understand how they do that
right
but they say you can't be turned down and i don't understand how they can
uh_huh
oh
i see
sure
they've got your money already
well gosh
well that's darn easy then
i wouldn't turn you down either
i'll give you one
huh
no
i haven't attempted that i'm satisfied with what we have right now
and we do have a gas credit card
and we use that
uh_huh
right
that's true
that's true
well we uh my husband always usually always pays with cash
but i never seem to have cash
or at least not enough you know to fill a tank up
so i always almost always use my credit card on that on that
and then it's you do tend to pay more
for gas
but other than that it's it's a good deal
i think
yeah
i saw that
exactly
but they won't they won't charge
i saw that advertised too
that's a good deal
but it's real it's real convenient for me i i just like being able to go in and do that
and and it's like american express you have to pay it off at the end of the month
so it's not going to go up too high
so it's good for emergencies
that's what we do on
sure
we always use especially on trips you know we just charge all our gas that saves us spending it or [shelling] out the cash right then
uh_huh
right
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
i know
and
isn't that terrible
and save all that money
um well
do you think we've okay
well thanks for talking
[scarily] very very very seldom only in dire emergencies
in fact i leave them home
i have never uh i've used them
but never to the extent of getting in debt like uh some people do
it's just that since my money is tight right now i don't even give myself a tempting because i've gotten them all paid off
so now i just wait before i use it
but uh like i'll keep one minor one like sears in my purse just for identification purposes
because i won't use it period
i'll use uh visa
but otherwise huh_uh
never
never
uh_huh
check
very seldom would i even use cash
uh_huh
how about you
see that's exactly
i didn't get in debt
but what i did was one year
oh i can't remember when five six must be eight nine years ago when i paid my taxes
i realized that i had ran up so much on my credit card that i was paying interest that was ridiculous
i mean sure it was the tax write off
but there was no sense to it
i mean there was no sense at all to it
i was paying more interest on that card than the card was worth as far as i could tell
so at that point there
we just stepped right on you know just saving all the way in and i'll turn around like on my car
i'll borrow against my insurance which i pay five percent interest and buy my car that way
and that works
so i don't have to worry about it
but i use uh [override] at uh [texin] credit union so that i don't have to keep too much
i keep enough balance in my checking account
so that i don't have to pay you know a service charge
and then i
yeah
if i write a check real large it'll go ahead and pull it out of my savings account
so i don't have to you know worry about it
one way of the other
and i just keep that minimum balance in there
so it just you know
and i pretty much budget that way all the way around
but as i said my money's tight
right now
yeah
there's no charge for it
so i do it that way
but i do as i said i keep the credit card in my purse for identification when somebody wants identification one way of the other
but usually i won't put anything on that card unless it's something i really unbelievably need otherwise i'd better have it somewhere else because i'm like you
i'm not going to have a balance on that thing because it's too easy
i know too many people that pay off that well i've got this credit card
well maybe i'd better use that one or something like that
and i'm saying
huh_uh
not me
well it's like um the little piece of plastic for uh to get your money out or the credit union
all you have to do is put it in the machine one way or the other
and like i'll run down there like you know for vacation and things like that
and i'll leave it in there in savings account until last day and then i'll put the card in and pull it out what i want
but i'll pull it out of savings because i don't keep any balance in the checking but that's still that's easy enough as it is
but i wouldn't use the machine to pay fifty cents or a dollar for it
i won't even go that far
um
but i'm like you if there's something really that i wanted i'll write to them before i'll put the credit card call in
though i won't put it on the card unless i really i'll take write them uh check for it because it wastes too much time on the credit card
and i'm kind of i'm leery about things going on my card
because i've had you know had to go back and return something
and it took so long to get it off and that was years ago
so i'm having real good luck with a credit card
i mean it came off
there's no problem
but it just takes too much you know scares me
and like tom [thumb's] got uh credit card now they used for groceries
yeah
over here in in plano
uh_huh
and you can charge your groceries on it
and uh you can either charge your groceries on it
you have a choice or you can write a check
and they it that way
so you don't have to keep going and get it you know credit check and things like that
and they'll give you an extra twenty five dollars no charge or anything else like that
but i won't even put that on groceries
because hey what happens if the clerk marks in an extra number or something like that
and i don't check it
no thank you
i don't want anything going on my you know in my checking account unless it's i know about it
but do you like discover card
i hadn't heard too much about it
uh_huh
well credit cards
um i would think they are wonderful
but uh i think you have to have a lot of restraint
uh i have never been in trouble with credit cards
but uh my youngest daughter is
and a friend of mine is
and i think it is terrible that they can uh you know wipe out a max in uh such a short time
uh i never pay interest charges
i value my money too much to uh line somebody else's pockets with my money
and i always uh pay it off before uh i am charged any interest on my balance
never
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
you really have to show a lot of restraint
but if you look at
if you look at the time frame on that uh you will find that you have about six or seven weeks before you have to make that payment back to the credit card company
without being charged any interest
that is correct
yeah
you
uh_huh
your budget has to be so that you can uh you know [summarize] what your balance is going to be at a particular time
and i can do that that is right
well that is what the
you know
that is what that is what it is geared for advertisement you know is uh to [whet] you appetite and give you that
oh i've got to have that i can't live without that and that is the image that the younger generation has you know
uh_huh
on that
who was that that could
is that a department store
oh okay
that is probably
no
it is not in uh in dallas
huh_uh
no
we we have dillard's
and uh [sanger] harris and [macy's] and [neiman] [marcus] and things like that
and i am sure that they probably would not have a problem either
well self yeah
self control though is the key uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh dear
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
sure
well experience is the best teacher
and sometimes you know uh a lot of us have have to learn by experience
and and uh if you can learn by someone's else's past mistakes then you are very wise
if you can heed to advice given that is true
yes i am yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
oh credit cards are you know really a blessing
uh but you have to be wise when you use them
and uh i have nothing against them
other than you know people abusing it
and then they get themselves in hot water and you know they are just hurting theirselves
and when you uh have a bankruptcy it takes you
i think about eight years to wipe that off your record
and so you know
that is the shame about that is uh
and people won't touch you
and you have got to live that down
so you have to be very cautious about how you use your credit
i mean it is a wonderful thing
but do not abuse it
oh
absolutely
sure
uh_huh
sure
that is right
well there is a lot of people that uh know exactly what they are doing and they will run into thousands and thousands of dollars into debt
and they will deliberately do this
so that they can go into bankruptcy
and they they have a way of uh [diverting] all of the things that they have bought and put it like in hiding
no
i have heard uh uh there was a radio program in dallas that we listen to
and i
well it in fact it is nationwide and i was shocked at some of the stories that came out of that uh program about these people that really you know they bought all these wonderful things
and then they went bankrupt
and they knew that
yes
they knew that they were going to do
that
and they just uh_huh
and uh they said you know it was worth the uh jeopardizing their credit for that amount of time because they still had the stuff you know
and they could write it off you know they can only uh be responsible for a certain percent
and not the full uh amount that they owed and i do not know who uh determines uh the percentage rate that they have to repay
but it is not surely what they are were indebted for
uh_huh
so it it they use it as a scam instead of uh to me they were criminals and they used that in a in a really bad situation
and that has kind of [snowballed] i guess around
so i do not know maybe the courts and lawyers are working on that to you know cover all the loopholes that might exist
but i have never been in that situation and hope i never have to be
okay
no
i can't think of anything i am sure that we have not covered everything because that is uh that is a great big uh a ball
uh credit
i can't think of anything right now
well listen
thank you for calling
and you have a good day
um no
not really
we use gas cards
more than anything
uh basically convenience
uh which led to habit i guess
oh really
yeah
we don't we don't ever we don't carry a whole lot of cash with us
so we use the the gas cards because our families are both out of town
and like when we travel and stuff
we use the gas cards
yeah
yeah
and then we have uh an american express that's through t i that steve uses just for t i
stuff
yes
yes
a lot
probably the uh uh if there's a premium each year
and the uh the a p r
and there's it's it's kind of hard to beat t i
and so you know usually we just trash it tear it up and trash it
and most of the time it goes [unopened] we just
yeah
if if that much
they're thirteen something
but i'm not sure if it's i think it's a flat thirteen right now
yeah
yeah
and then you're then you're if you're that lucky you get to pay them another twenty five bucks a year just to be that [privileged] to get twenty one percent a year
yeah
yeah
yeah
that would that would help a lot
i i'm not even sure why i mean the purpose of an annual fee
i'm not really
well i guess so
because it's not any more [prestigious] to have to pay it as far as getting another card where you don't
you know
oh really
yeah
have ten percent off
if you got to use that credit card
yeah
that
yeah
right
i did that with my husband uh he was off working at t i in austin one day and so i went out to the mall to kind of look around and hit mervyn's and found some stuff after christmas on sale
and ended up getting fifteen percent off
already off of it already whatever it was lower
and i think that's the only card
i have
that's you know recently is gotten a mervyn's card and i used it for i think for the first time when i was in houston this weekend
and i have i've had it for months
yeah
yeah
i don't i don't like it a whole lot either uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i never understood how people could i mean there are some people who say well i can't charge it it's at
it's limit
and i thought [gol] how can you charge a credit card to its limit it just it just
i guess it's that that you know lack of discipline
when you have a piece of plastic that says pay later you know
yeah
and i just
it's the
yeah
it just worry about it tomorrow
yeah
and it just
i don't i don't really go for them
and i in fact i had my own before we got married
and ended up cutting them up just for the fact that t i had lower rates
you know and decided and i mean when i tried to close with chase manhattan
it was just like pulling teeth
i mean i couldn't close they'd send me a statement every little this is your new
you know balance with bonus points or whatever
you know
and it's like look i closed this months ago
and i don't want any more of your letters i don't want anything
and well you have a credit balance well send me a check
you know
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
they do
but we we were in in that same boat a couple of years ago
and they had said well just list your major ones
and the balance still owed on it
you know or give it a balance still owed on it
and that's all we did
right
right
yeah
and it's like
well who are you to approve something for me without my permission anyway
but i think um i think what you can do as far as i don't think as many companies when you are a good customer i don't think they report that as much as they should their [delinquent] customers
because a lot of times you have to write and ask them to report it to the credit bureau so that you look like you have good credit as far as you know paying off you know your cards early or on time or whatever
that usually doesn't happen unless i've heard people say well you have to write to ask that
and i say well you know if someone's so quick to turn you over because you're thirty days late
i think they they should do do that more often
what do you think about that uh discover card
oh really
the dollar you didn't cash
oh oh well i was wondering how that that worked
because it's like you know we'll pay you for i'm going wait a minute you know
yeah
we don't we wouldn't even have one if it wasn't for t i
and
steve's traveling
we just you know
the topic today is credit cards
uh why don't you go ahead and tell me some uh some of your favorite uses for a credit card if if it all that supplies
okay
well i wish i was in your shoes pat i uh i was i was in pretty much control of my credit cards up until the point where we moved down here from south dakota
and then uh it took my wife and i about two months to find a job
so in that interim everything
went on the credit card and uh so now we're slowly trying to pay it off and if i would i just keep thinking if i would have just been able to take that money and put it in a savings account instead of
right
i'd be
i you know i'd i'd be doing all right
today
but no
i've got those darn credit card bills hanging over my head
right
well that's uh that's always a possibility
um
okay
okay
well i uh while we were doing
like i said we were doing all right you know we'd put gas occasionally go out to eat or pick up a small gift or something you know some clothes or something
but
and we could always pay it off when when the bill came and when we moved down here and everything was going on the credit card
i think we we got a little rampant we you know went out to eat out everything
and you know we we would have to go to wet and wild
and we had to basically play tourists
the first the first month that we were here
and of course everybody takes credit cards
so it got uh it got way out of hand
but [thankfully] we're we're now
working to pay them off
and and we haven't put anything on them in a couple months
it can it sure can
well what uh what do you find are some of the best advantages of credit cards
uh_huh
that's true
right
right
that's right
you can you certainly can
well i understand that
you know you can't even rent a car hardly or uh get an airplane ticket without a credit card
it's
right
well even if you have cash it's hard to if you're under twenty five
and you you have cash
you still can't get
still can't rent a car
you have to have a credit card
and that uh i don't know
okay
you work with t i
then
okay
well you don't speaking of cash
you don't get the five dollars for the phone call you you get the gift part
isn't that how that worked
if you're a t i employee
well that's all right
that's that's an interesting incentive
we uh we wanted to do it because we weren't from the south
and i think we would we'd be able to
well not
yeah
exactly
you know get get to i still have a hard time uh understanding some people's accent
you know i i can't i just can't understand what they're saying
but
yeah
there are
okay
where are you originally from
los angeles boy there's a change
i suppose it's about as cold there as it is here now
well
what's life in l a like
okay
a lot of crime
and seems to me you know i couldn't understand why it would be such a heavily populated area if there's so much crime so much smog so much traffic
this is a kind of ironic subject for me because this is the first year um i purchased
i mean i i was actually able to uh get some credit cards
because i'm twenty one
and i got it through school uh
and i i've kind of you know you kind of make a purchase and you and you forget you know what you put on your credit card
and you know within a month you know they send you a bill
and uh i'm about three thousand dollars in debt right now
yeah
they do
i mean it's amazing
it's like a an an illness or a sickness or something
uh_huh
yeah
christmas time
i can understand
but what my after i got one i didn't just stop
i got i've got about five
six
six credit cards
yeah
and uh so i just charged a little on each
and uh and you just get the um the adding machine out and you add it up and it's it's amazing
uh_huh
we went to
we went on vacation
and uh and i charged a lot you know just
well i charged um like clothes for the vacation
and then on the vacation you know
charged our hotel
and then you know when you go out to eat you charge food
i mean you know
it's so convenient
and you just don't i guess i'm just really stupid i just
didn't realize
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i have a friend that um she's married and her and her husband uh she said you know they tried really hard to pay them off
and it took them three years before they were able to uh pay off their credit cards
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i think it was hard for me because i wasn't working at the time
and i was just going to school and like every weekend i would just it was just and go out and just spend uh
but
yeah
um i have a discover
and a visa
a sears
and i have like most of the department stores
yeah
i have um i have maxed that one
yeah
it is
and i got the sears through the discover before i had um and i didn't even know i went over my limit
i mean that's
i just didn't even add it up
i don't know
i was just going crazy
and there's about fourteen hundred dollars on that card
uh_huh
i wouldn't do that i would not do that i've seen on t v
well my view
i work for a financial institution
and
yeah
and i love my credit card uh you end up with more consumer rights by using credit cards than uh what i mean is say you pay for something with a check
your check clears you're out the bucks you pay for something with a credit card you are dissatisfied with it
you take it back
and they say sorry we you can't take it back if you know you can leave it there
and then just have your visa charge back
get your money back
visa
well that's the kind we offer
and uh we're just offering a a new card that gives you up to one percent back of all the charges that you make
cash back you know like [discovers] and we're starting to do that
we are
uh we do
america first credit union
yeah
did you get much back
well good for you
that must mean
and it's one percent
so you spend about five thousand
that's pretty good
well i i do better than that everything goes on mine
and then i've got a business too that i use it for charging computers on
it is nice
yep
well how many cards
have you got
uh_huh
uh_huh
a debit card
i don't like those
oh really
that's interesting
uh_huh
with a debit card
oh credit
oh okay
yes
is it twenty percent interest
wow
our [card's] thirteen and a half
with a ten dollar annual fee
well you have to be a member of our credit union
america first it's we're the
yeah
yeah
you have to a resident of this state
uh do you have mervyn's and all those have you noticed that they all have started [issuing] their own credit cards
what do you think of uh sears not taking any one
but theirs
yeah
do you like that
or do you think that's fair
or
oh
yeah
it's theirs
this is jay in dallas how you
good where you from
oh okay
so
right
that'd be great
go ahead
yeah
that's right
i i think that's what happened to everybody out they gets back when they just sent them to you without any i've got i don't know how many tons of them
but uh i use uh this one particular one for everything
i mean everything i buy including groceries
and it runs up pretty high every month
but then i pay it off because i get a air uh advantage miles on american with it
so i i can get a you know i've already gotten a free trip just from using that card
so i don't uh i don't have any carry over balances any more
but i just i was wiped out there for years
but that was the way to do stuff
and uh i think you have to make the decision
but um texas is uh you know it's a [debtor] state and if you get in too big of a trap you you can just blow them off
and that's not good
but i know a lot of people do it
that's what runs that interest rate up you know pretty high
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well it's uh the interest rates are still crazy up there you know
and they've come down except the credit cards
so it's not uh it's not really an advantage to have them now
they uh some of mine
i think up over twenty percent
i don't use them any more
but i think
they've gone over twenty percent a year
and some of them you know i think the one i'm using is about fifteen but i don't use the interest any more
so it doesn't make any difference
and then when i travel i travel a lot in europe
i use diners club and that gets all my um uh insurance on rental cars
and of course they have a pretty good uh uh plan on the gifts and things like that
i try to get something out of them now
so
right
absolutely
there's no use paying that fifty or whatever it is a a a year
oh sure
um personally my my next project i think is to take those that i do have and cut them up
that i'm not using uh especially the ones that don't that there's a working asset to these that gives a lot of money to um the environment and things like that
that's my second here
but i've got one [cigna] visa that doesn't give you a damn thing
so
uh i think i'll cut it up this year for my new year's resolution
i've got a lot of um gasoline credit cards that i don't any more because they take all the others
so i might as well pitch them
i mean it's just weight carrying it in your pocket
absolutely
yeah
oh yeah
you can
i was absolutely
uh i r s checked me one time and they said nobody in the world could have paid this much interest
and i said well i'm glad you mentioned that because i've got receipts for all that
but you know something else
i couldn't have proven but uh that was
i'm not young any more
so i uh took a long time to learn
but a lot of young people do get trapped on it it's easy you know you don't have any money
and
yeah
oh sure
and they got all those late charges now
and stuff they didn't used to have
and if you go over the limit
there's a charge
i mean they're they're really starting to hit you know a lot harder than they used to
they they
you use credit cards
do you
uh_huh
i see
what is the advantage then of a gold card
because um you don't pay any interest if you have a regular mastercard or visa
i see i see we use to get the american express card and stuff like that
and then we just kind of got back to plain old mastercard and visa uh because we never really had any um benefit that we thought was worth the the price of the special card
so it may change if we do a lot of car rental which we don't do
or other types of services
i'm sure
there're some things that come along with the gold cards that are appealing and and uh i've just wondered what they were they haven't been appealing to us so far
yeah
that you know i think that was my original appeal uh i was i was in my twenties
and the american express card really appeals to people on that basis of of you know you've arrived you've got this card
and uh you know it got to what fifty five dollars a year or something like that
and my wife said well this is ridiculous
why are we doing this
and uh so we stopped doing it
and we refused to pay
i don't know whether you know this
but my wife discovered this we started to refuse to pay our banks an annual fee for the that for the visa and mastercard
and they said fine
we'll give it to you
anyway
and we said you know
we're uh we're not interested in your card any more
and they said well wait a minute
is it the price and we said yeah
so well we won't charge you any more
you know
and they used to charge what eighteen dollars a year or something like that twelve dollars
something like that
so they're wonderful
i mean i think credit cards are great
we use it to get cash
uh you know you can use it now in the safeway out here in san francisco
and it's wonderful in that respect
and we're glad to have them
we we
yeah
it's great you know
and it eventually what we're going to go to is nothing but these kinds of cards
and it'll be mastercard visa and and american express i don't think the discover [card's] going to make it in the long term
um you know we don't need to many cards
and the american express will probably survive
but it'll have to become more like these other ones and become cheaper
i think if the price will come down
i don't think it's worth fifty five bucks a year
when you can use the visa or the mastercard everywhere in the world
and they're pitching that in all their commercials
i notice yeah
yeah
well that's that's interesting
i can see why because then they get some sort of advantage in terms of the conversion fee probably
right
well
and it's going to come that way
and the reason it's nice is because basically what it does is put you electronically in touch with your financial resources anywhere in the world
and that's where we're headed the technology supports that nicely
and uh it makes more sense than than that because you have a card
and if you have insurance which we have had on the card you uh
can have you lose it stolen
and you don't get uh anything charged to you
and that's great
it's just insurance
we're very responsible with our cards
but nonetheless if we lost them
it'd be great to know we didn't have to pay five hundred dollars or whatever
uh on the cards
we look for the low rate
we have u s a a cards you know u s a a
um i use them carefully i guess um
i uh i usually don't
i usually use them to consolidate billing uh for convenience sakes
but i usually just pay them off at the end of the month
i don't i don't avoid the finance charges uh as high as they are
i don't uh
don't you know i don't let them carry over you know
i i've been lucky
i guess i haven't had a bills big enough where i couldn't pay them off at the end of the month
but uh
i try to try to live within a budget you know
and so i keep that in mind
i just don't you know i guess it takes self restraint when you have a credit card to know that that there's you really have to pay these things off
plus a lot more you know
and you got to realize that there's only this much money in the bank and if you're going to live you know if you're not going to try to you know say well pay it off sometime in the future
uh_huh
right
well some people a rip theirs up just because they you know
they can't resist them
right
right
uh_huh
right
i use them to float sometimes
if it's near the end of the month
and you know
and you know i don't have a check coming in a few days
i'll go ahead and and charge it
knowing that the money will be there
by the time the bill comes uh_huh
right
you know we go out to eat a lot of times
i don't like to carry a lot of cash with me
yeah
i have
so i just carry my credit card
and and answer things like that as long as i know you know that i'm i'm not over doing it
it's uh
and yeah
i have i have what i have two credit cards
that's all i use i'm always getting stuff in the mail all the time
you are a preferred such and such
and you are
you're already approved
oh
sometimes they just send them to you and say here have a credit card
i have that one
yeah
i just ripped i just cut it up and threw it away
but you know they had already
is that right
huh
i didn't know that that you didn't want
is that right
huh
that's right
that's right
they could they can make your life miserable if they want to
is that right
we don't have too many exxon stations out this way
we've got lots of mobile [mobiles] are big
and we have a few exxon we've got some other ones like [citgo] yeah
is a is a one
yeah
got some shell stations a few texaco stations
uh_huh
right
and there's another local one i can't i can't remember what
there's some few [sinclair] stations
yeah
the few with the green dinosaur they're they're they're [logo] yeah
there's not that many down here
but you know once once in a while you'll see one
i guess they're still in business
yeah
yeah
you ever you ever gotten in trouble with your credit card where they they've charged charged you for something you didn't didn't didn't purchase
yeah
i have
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
from someone saying
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
somebody blew it
right
right
do you have the discover card
neither do i
they they i don't know
i don't know how anybody can fall into this
you get cash back
and buy into that because all they're giving you back is a little bit of the interest you paid in
yeah
their interest
right
their interest [rate's] twenty two percent
higher than any other ones
and then they said that we'll give you back some of your money
how about like
right
it it's a rip off but a lot of people think it's wonderful
i guess said they're they're doing well
everything i've read they've been getting a more market share
i guess they're they're advertising and [promotions] and i guess so
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i have a on my credit cards
i have a grace period if i pay it off within
when the bill comes i i don't have to owe any interest
and uh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
once in a while
uh my i have an american express they have visa in a buyer protection thing
where uh they extend the warranty
so uh they both can be nice around christmas time
and stuff if you're going to buy a t v or uh
or uh electronic then
and everything
huh
uh_huh
he pays for that
yeah
a couple hundred bucks probably for that like hike high in card
well if you have the money i guess
get what you pay for huh
for that little
right
yeah
uh_huh
right
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
a lot of people do that for a living
i guess
trade money
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
right
the other check went through
made a little extra money there huh
uh_huh
none at all
huh
i see
yeah
has it
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that
that's what we we got rid of an american express card for the same reason though we have a a credit union and we get our cards our other mastercards for free
so we don't have to pay a a fee at all
and that's
i i know people who don't have any credit cards at all
and i'm always amazed because i don't know how they can get by without them
it doesn't seem like you can do anything anymore without a credit card
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i like um too with with us
we've got insurance
of course
but husband's work
but by the time like two weeks ago we all got sick all four us
and one kid had to go to the doctor twice
and then all the other the rest of us did
and he was like six hundred dollars
yeah
and it was we were we all had it was a [viral] pneumonia it was really bad
and and we were just horribly sick
but i mean six hundred dollars
i can't come up with
but um
yeah
all the doctors here will take a visa
so that and you know go to k mart and use the pharmacy to pay for the uh medicines and then turn it all into the insurance company and wait for it to come back
you know
and so our part of it was still twenty percent but twenty percent i can payoff in one month or as you know then i got to wait for the the rest of it to come back from aetna
but it basically floats you know during the the time because we've got a thirty day grace period on the credit card as long as you pay it you know within that time
and that's usually enough time for the insurance to get back
i try to make that our biggest use of credit cards
i know people who are so in debt
people who have five visa cards
you know it's like why did you go get they charged up one
so then they
but they were still paying their minimum
so their credit rating was still good
and and you would you know they get this in the mail say oh well we can't use that one anymore we'll just get another one
and that's like who you
oh
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
but that's that's a good way to make a big problem in your marriage
real quick gosh that's just dishonest oh well
maybe maybe they'll be all right
i know in mine
if i did something like that
and then my husband found out jeez he would just be well i think i would feel the same way
i'd i'd really feel like i'd been [deceived] you know that that wasn't the thing to do
uh_huh
um
yeah
we've tried to do that we've paid ours off you know all the way down to where we had everything down to zero and especially right before i i quit work two years ago to stay home with the kids and right
and before i left we had everything paid off we were in great shape we were putting money you know because we were both working
we were finally putting money in
but we've gone back the other way to some extent because just because there are times when you just can't pay it all
because there are just too many bills
yeah
uh_huh
oh isn't that silly
i i sent that one back
because we had used it for a year
and we had used a thousand dollars worth during the year
and what we and i think we got back fifty cents or something
it was like please what is this this is
and the interest rate on it was was eighteen or nineteen percent
and our visa card was we could get through our credit union was like fourteen percent
so we just we sent it back
we we keep gas credit cards
and we have visa and then i have started my own business
i have a photography business
and i went ahead and got a separate visa just for that photography business
because there are things that i have to buy and and with my when i when i take things to the lab to get developed it's several hundred dollars at a time
and i was using up all of our personal credit with my photography business
even though again it's paying off every month because i'm i'm putting everything
i'm i'm uh you know i'm getting the pictures and i'm taking them back
so the people already have their money
but i wasn't [depositing] them until i gave them the pictures back
another practice i found i'm going to have to stop
hot checks
you wouldn't think for a for a twelve dollar school picture
that uh that people would write a hot check
but they do
i guess
it's just you know
and when i think about that this this particular lady who wrote me a check for twelve dollars
and it bounced and i sent it through you know sent it through the check through the bank once
and she [incurred] at least a fifteen dollar fee
for a returned check
so now she's already doubled the price of her check and i've sent it through a second time because they said there's money in the account now
you know and and if it doesn't go through the second time that woman's out thirty bucks
for one twelve dollar check
gosh
yeah
he's going to have a debt going out the year
uh_huh
uh uh_huh
well we have a lot of mobile stations around here
and i used to use that card almost exclusively
but now they're charging the extra five cents to use your credit card and texaco and [chevron] and somebody else is not anymore
they'll take it you know at the cash price
or you they'll now let you write a check
if you have their card
so you pay for it immediately instead of um you know putting it off for a month
what's that writing a check for gas
well all of them down down here you had a cash price for gasoline
and a credit card price
right
that's that's the
uh_huh
right
and and they've changed that now now stop it go play and leave me alone yeah
and so i'm using the other ones now because they're just as easy to get to
and then they're nickel a gallon cheaper
so
yeah
we try not to we're probably the only two people in the united states
the banks don't want to hear from us because they want those people who charge it up to ten thousand dollars
and and then get all yeah
and then pay fifty dollars a month
and it all goes to interest
oh i guess they must they must make a ton there's not too many places you can make eighteen percent interest on things anymore
that's what we need see you
and i need to get in the credit card business
we need to start our own credit card
if you can
yeah
because you sure can't get that interest anyway else
oh yeah
ours are like seven percent
we've got one
and with with i r a stuff in it
and uh jeez
you can't get any interest rates
my folks have just retired just in the last couple of months
my dad has
and uh they're trying to figure out you know what they're doing with stuff
and my mom's in there cutting up the credit cards you know can't use these anymore
i got rid of mine about uh-oh
it's been about four years ago now
and uh went on a strictly cash basis
and sometimes it's inconvenient
but it is so much better for me because i i am the type that will always find an emergency
but i have found that there were so many things that with a credit card i really did need
and with cash
once you know it took me probably two years to get on a cash basis when i stopped charging but once once i did
you know it it only takes me two or three months to be able to save up what i want to buy
and i'm not paying the high interest rates
because it's so easy you know you have these wonderful intentions of well i'll just pay off the whole balance and then i won't owe any
and then something comes up you know
and well i'll just pay the minimum
well you just do that forever
no
you're paying the interest you know i've i've thought about going ahead and getting something like american express
where you have to pay within thirty days
right
and just for
i d purposes
but it's become such a way of life
and like see it was so convenient
and then pretty soon you get a [consolidation] loan
to consolidate all your credit cards
and then they send you another credit card
right
so i've i just finally figured out that for my way of life
i did much better
and i've i've been able to buy as much or more
by just going cash
and like i say it was tough
because it's a really it's a habit
or you know you'll think
okay
i've got x amount to spend this month and then somebody has a birthday or get they get married or something that well i'll just put this one thing on it
well you don't do that once you start
you know you're going to have a bill coming in anyway
right
and i i just you know for for me it was a trap that was too easy for me to get into
uh_huh
well you know there are times when you know it is
but i i've been laid off twice in the last four years
and had i had a lot of credit cards
i well you know it it really helped that i didn't have that to pay for
but in the other [vain] had i had them i would have lived on them
right
and uh this way you know i i made do
and uh when i was you know employed then i didn't have all that that i had to go back and say well i've got ten thousand dollars worth of credit cards to pay off now
it really
you know with the first like i say it took me over two years to pay mine off
but the first time you know that i could go out and make a major purchase
okay  
uh first um i need to know uh how do you feel about uh about sending uh an elderly uh family member to a nursing home  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
probably the hardest thing in in my family uh my grandmother she had to be put in a nursing home  
and um she had used the walker for for quite some time probably about six to nine months  
and um she had a fall  
and uh finally uh she had [parkinson's] disease  
and it got so much that she could not take care of her house  
then she lived in an apartment  
and uh that was even harder   actually  
because it was you know it was just a change of change of location  
and it was very disturbing for her because she had been so used to traveling  
i mean she she had she had children all across the united states  
and you know she spent nine months out of the year just visiting her children  
and um that was pretty heart [rending] for her  
i think when she finally came to the [realization] that you know no i cannot i cannot take care of myself  
yeah  
i mean for somebody who is you know for most of their life has has uh not just merely had a farm but had ten children   had a farm ran everything because her husband was away in the coal mines  
and you know facing that situation it's it's quite a dilemma  
i think  
yeah  
well my uh my uh  
probably one of the biggest decisions i think that was very strengthening for our family was rather than have one child make that decision   than just [delegate] it  
i think that they they had a great deal of um  
all the brothers and sisters got together  
and they actually had a conference  
and i mean it was just it was probably one of the most strengthening things for our family getting down together and doing that  
and and just the children were involved in the decision because it involved just them   and you know making that decision and then finding a place  
and everybody had duties   to perform  
you know whether it was just you know giving money or whether it was actually taking part in a lot   of the decision making you know   like finding a proper nursing home  
and they  
i know  
they and well they had well they had they had seen it coming  
so so  
i mean it  
i mean i i i i i i truly wish that if something like that were to happen that my children would do something like   that for me  
yeah  
yeah  
well we we  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
well with my with my grandmother i think it was it was such that uh that she did not have the problem with  
she was very well aware  
and her daughter came and visited her  
at least her daughter   came and visited her and also her several grandchildren   came and visited her every day  
and i think that when she passed away it was probably one of the greatest  
um i i i think it would be  
it was more of a relief   for her  
and um  
i mean but she was truly she was truly aware  
i mean i i i i don't know how i would how i would deal if one of my parents came with with alzheimer's   or something like   that which is which is far more devastating  
and um i i i think that what one thing that they were concerned probably was the fact it wasn't necessarily you know like the quantity of care   but the quality of   care  
that the people that worked there   were very   were very interested that to make it as close a home environment   as possible  
i think i think i think you know for myself i i see that as probably the the what everything would [hinge] upon  
is it  
how close is it to a home environment  
that's the that's probably the major question  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know it's it's interesting that that a lot the population of the united states is changing because you know uh now that so many more minorities where they have had extended families for such a long time  
um matter of fact in the united states we used to have extended families  
it wasn't  
but i guess as we become more [industrialized] and more you know less in a rural situation   we we don't we we we choose not to deal with the   extended family   because we feel it's kind of cumbersome   when in reality it makes things much much easier  
uh   yeah  
yeah  
i i i think that perhaps perhaps the extended family you know that it maybe one of the solutions to a lot of things even child care  
you know i mean of course there there comes other issues you know whether or not any of the grandparents whether we feel like are going to be a good they're going to be a good caretaker for our children  
but  
i mean they raised us after all  
yeah  
but uh i i i think that you know we always uh i mean i've i've had a lot of good experiences with uh with many many people especially where they've had uh extended family  
and i and i i kind of see that that you know perhaps you know we may need to like get close to the family environment and   and get down to the values of you know  
i mean uh it's  
money seems to be too big of an issue   with   with with   with what's going on today  
and i i think i think that we may not that may be you know perhaps if we put money on the back burner   that may that may choose to alleviate a lot of the problem  
i mean   i mean we may not we may not have as high a standard of living  
but the but actually have a [truer] standard of living  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
well i guess that was it  
okay  
all right  
hey  
bye bye  
well of course it's you know it's one of the last few things in the world you'd ever want to do you know unless it's just you know really you know and uh for their uh you know for their own good  
i'd be very very careful and uh you know checking them out  
uh our  
had place my mother in a nursing home  
she had a rather massive stroke about uh about   uh eight months ago i guess  
and uh we were i was fortunate in that  
i was personally acquainted with the uh people who uh ran the nursing home in our little hometown  
so i was very comfortable you know in doing it when it got to the point that we had to do it  
but there's  
well i had an occasion for my mother in law who had fell and needed to be you know could not take care of herself anymore was confined to a nursing home for a while  
that was really not a very good experience  
uh it had to be done in a hurry  
i mean we didn't have you know like six months to check all of these places out  
and it was really not not very good uh deal  
we were not really happy with   nursing home that we finally had  
fortunately she only had to stay a few weeks  
and she was able to to return to her apartment again  
but it's really a big uh big uh   decision as to you know when to do it  
you know is there something else we could have done you know in checking out all the places that uh might be available  
of course you know there's not one on every corner   especially you know smaller areas   smaller towns  
oh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i can imagine  
uh_huh  
that's tough  
that's tough  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
my mother excuse me  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
that's great  
that's right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
you were very   fortunate  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
unfortunately a lot of times it responsibilities like that seem to fall to you know maybe one child in the whole family you know  
and uh it's usually not a very smooth   smooth thing  
we were i was lucky too that i only have one brother  
and uh fortunately we agreed you know on exactly you know what we thought should be done  
my mother also was very very independent  
she had her own still had her own little house and still driving her own car   at age eighty three  
we were lucky in that in one respect in that after she had her stroke she wasn't really you know really much aware of what was going on  
that nursing home life would not have been you know anything of her choosing  
of course she would she would not have been happy there at all  
but as it turned out the stroke took care of that concern for us  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
that would be tough  
yes  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
it would  
oh  
yes  
that's right  
i think that great strides are being made nowadays in in caring for the elderly you know in several in a   in a whole lot of areas  
just people are of course populations getting older  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
true  
yes um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
sure  
absolutely  
and   people things are scattered so much nowadays  
yes  
yes  
just because they're grandparents  
yeah  
just because they're grandparents that doesn't automatically make them a good child [carer]  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
realistically it is  
uh_huh  
that would   certainly help  
uh_huh  
right  
that's just a matter of [defining] priorities i guess   or some priorities anyway  
i think your right  
okay  
it was good talking to you  
yeah  
take care  
bye bye  
okay  
so what do you think about it  
should  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
um it's it's funny  
because um i know people at that are in all three and people that work you know  
i know someone that works in all three different stages like you said  
and i have known you know people close to me that have been in all three  
and i have seen them like go from where they're in an apartment building  
they we call it um  
well we have high [rises]  
and it's just for elderly people you know  
or most of most of one of their spouses has already passed away  
and it's really nice for them because then they're with people their own age and people that have gone through things exactly what they have gone through  
and it's it's really nice to go and see them you know where they can still get around and everything  
and they still you know do their own thing  
but it's it's really nice to see them because  
i mean sometimes  
like i had a great aunt  
she lived with us for um three months and because she's starting to get alzheimer's disease  
and i know i have a bunch of younger brothers and sisters  
and i know it was hard for me as well as it was for them to to actually sit down because she doesn't like doing things that the younger kids like doing  
and to actually sit  
so it's really nice to see that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i'm in college  
and i'm i'm only twenty one  
but we had a i had a speech class last semester  
and there was a girl in my class who did a speech on home care of the elderly  
and i was so surprised to hear how many people  
like whenever they're in you know the older people they're like um [fastened] to their beds so they can't get out just because they you know they wander the halls   and they get the wrong medicine just because you know the the aides or whoever just give them the wrong medicine  
and so many of them you know are  
yes  
and it was it was awful to hear what you know what some of these people really went through  
and i forget the percentage of people that you know that she had said  
and this was i mean she did research on it and everything  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know  
and and sometimes they share a room  
and it's just a little [cubbyhole]  
and they share it with another person  
and they're still paying that much  
it it it just sometimes it just seems ridiculous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i've been lucky  
well my mom's um parents they're both in their in their uh eighties  
and i was just home for spring break  
and my grandma said something to me about she goes well maybe we'll just sell the house  
she said it's getting too big for us to take care of  
and i was like no  
no  
no  
stay in the house as long as you can  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
it sounds like uh an apartment or  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
see now we've run into a lot of problems where our relatives were  
well i've lived here for thirty years  
and we've built this and this is our home  
and we have nothing else to show for our lives  
and we don't want to leave  
uh we've run into a lot of that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what like  
well um now i know we have an  
we call it an old folks home  
but it's basically a nursing home too  
but everyone has basically their own room  
and they're you know  
none of them have cars because they can't drive  
but if someone would come to get them you know they're allowed to leave with them  
and there's a staff there that makes supper for them  
and each person has a chore  
like maybe wednesday night it's [george's] turn to set all the tables  
and it's really nice because that keeps them going too rather than just sitting around  
and i know um our youth group goes over  
and we play bingo with them and you know like   stuff like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
just to keep them going  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but i think before  
like you  
i don't think i don't think it's right to just put someone in it  
i think they would have to agree to go in it  
well yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
um i like the idea of nursing homes as a as a growing the choices you have in nursing homes now whereas used to you used to have only you put you know  
when when people got to the point where they were [debilitated] and couldn't take care of themselves  
and there was no other choice  
you couldn't take them in your own home  
then they went into a nursing home  
you know maybe you lived too far away to care for them  
or your daily job or whatever prevented it  
but um i like the choices you have now where they can go into an apartment type setting and have some basically have a independent life style but [assisted] care  
and then if things deteriorate they can go to a second level which is you know like where they prepare their meals for them  
and and they still live somewhat independently  
but they have people checking on them and making sure they have hot meals  
and then where the same community a lot of times will also have the third level which is full care you know where some people can't where they're in a wheelchair or where they're in a bed  
and they can't get around  
but then they have full care  
but i really like those those options now  
and and i think about it more often because my husband's parents are they're very active right now  
but they're seventy five and and seventy two  
so that comes up somewhat more often in my thoughts as i see these things   because of their age  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's some of the things i would find important before i i would look into that for a person is is is like you're saying a good mix of people who have the same interests  
and uh and the programs  
here they have different uh besides just different levels within the same program they have different types of programs  
they have several areas  
they have one area in town where the people  
i guess a lot of it comes with money  
i this this one area is a bit more expensive  
and the people who probably are living there have had more money in their life  
but but things that people where they have similar interests  
like you're saying  
and the programs that they have where where some of them will have dances once a week  
and some of them sponsor different crafts  
and they go to the [arboretum] to see things  
and they make sure that if they want to go to church there's a bus there  
and it'll or you know or someone will transport them to a specific church even though it's you know maybe it's thirty minutes away  
because it's a big you know dallas area is a big metropolitan area  
but a lot of these places have have churches or have have individual transportation  
that's that's something i'd look for something that would make me happy personally if i had to live there  
because i don't think a lot of people really even in the nice ones and even in the ones where they can live fairly independently they really don't necessarily like it   because they're not in their own home  
so i think those kinds of things to make it more [homelike] and to make it more um enjoyable for them that'd that'd be one thing i'd look for along with the uh health care aspects   to make sure they had you know that it was clean and that they had good doctors and nurses  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
are [overmedicated] too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's one of the things that that we don't think about as we get older and the the money that it now requires to uh be in one of these places  
because some of these people that are just on social security  
and if they don't have any living relatives  
perhaps they never had children  
or if their children you know passed away before they did   they can be in some places that are you know that that are not good  
or they they have very minimum minimal care  
and the the care that they are getting the people who are giving it are are paid at a minimum wage  
and they just they don't care as much  
and and like you said they're trying to make it the caretakers in some cases are trying to make easy on themselves to the point where they're putting people in bed or [overmedicating] them so they'll stay in one spot and not do anything  
that certainly would be something to to watch for  
because you've got with some of them being some of these places can even be two and three thousand dollars a month to stay in  
yeah  
oh yeah  
so you've  
yeah  
you've got to really strike a balance in what kind of care what kind of level of care you need and then what you can unfortunately what you can afford at the same time  
well like there are other communities too that aren't necessarily a nursing home  
i had an aunt who lived in a small town in texas that um was in a  
it was a it was a housing division  
each person had their own little bitty house   that they had built  
and it was um [supplemented]  
their they were most of them were on social security  
and they got some kind of supplemental aid besides from the state government  
but it was this little bitty one bedroom house  
but it was a separate house  
and they had a living room and a bedroom and a kitchen   and a bathroom  
so they still had they had and they had people who came in who um supervised all these houses  
were like fifteen or twenty of them all right together kind of like on one block  
and they had a a supervisory um  
wasn't a house really  
it was it was more like um a headquarters   or something anyway where they they staffed it three shifts a day so that someone if they needed someone they could ring  
and and someone   could come to their house  
and that and they always cooked  
then they had they had the choice you know  
they lived in their own little house  
they had their own possessions still in there to some you know some of them  
and they could make their own breakfast if they wanted to and their own dinner  
and they always had somebody come in for lunch  
but they had people who did you know they didn't have to mess with the yard  
they had people who did the yard  
and they had a maid that uh uh service that came in and cleaned everybody's house  
so they didn't have to worry about that  
and it was really a nice it was really a nice compromise especially because she felt like she was still living in her own house  
and she still had her own couch and her own bed  
and it it really helped a lot  
and she was a lot more comfortable  
and she didn't resent like having to be in a situation because she still had a lot of her own possessions  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it would be hard to  
that's that's why this  
she was she felt that way too  
but when it helped that she got to still be in a house and still have some of her own stuff  
and i guess that that  
it was a pilot program i think where she lived  
so it's probably not widely available  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
that's good  
everybody needs some sense of responsibility  
an even even if it's just a little bit  
yeah  
so it's it's more like living with a big in a big house where it's your turn to to set the table like you're saying or whatever   instead of being waited on hand and foot all the time  
yeah  
that would be nice  
yes  
unless they're at a point where they're mentally   incapacitated  
like you're saying with alzheimer's and stuff they're going to be some people who have to be there   whether they want to or not  
and that's when it's important to really check out the medical aspects of it when you're when you're in something like that   that they'll get the kind of medical care they want without or they need without [overdoing] it   without doing something to make this you know to keep like you're saying to keep them still to make the staff happy  
so  
all right  
well on this subject i really hadn't had to deal with putting someone in there yet  
but my mother's always been administrator of a nursing home  
so i've always been involved you know in one  
well i've   well i can kind of see both sides you know  
i really can  
uh nursing homes to me  
i would personally be the last resort   you know i you know if i had to put someone in there  
yeah  
if it's a have to thing  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i kind of think that's true too i guess because it's so under staffed you know  
that's like everything else though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i've always  
well my sister's involved in one also  
and i really think they really do a wonderful job  
but still there's those little things that happens you know  
there really is which  
i think it's a wonderful place you know if it comes to that you know if you just can't take care of them any more  
uh_huh  
that's it  
uh_huh  
other things  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but i think when the time comes i i hope to have the time to really look around you know   and pick one that i really think my mother would be happy at  
i do too  
[outside's] awful deceiving sometimes   you know  
yeah  
yeah  

yeah  
yeah  
off  
yeah  
to  
no  
uh_huh  
and everything you worked so hard for all your life  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now there is some really nice ones  
there's also you know some private ones you know  
but of course i would never be able to afford to put my parents in something like that you know  
that's way out of my reach  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
the very same  
yeah  
no  
but i there's i think there's ways around it though that you know  
like they could put it in one of their children's names or something   you know  
but still a lot of them doesn't feel comfortable doing that  
you know it's their money  
you know that's how i feel about it anyway  
yes  
yeah  
my mother's seventy now  
so naturally she's retired  
but she's still on her own i mean  
i think that's wonderful  
i really do  
just as long as they can  
and then on the other hand i've seen some people go into the nursing home and just so happy   you know  
uh_huh  
they're not lonely  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
around  
yeah  
but i really don't know what the other solution would be   you know  
i really don't  
but no  
when the time comes i'm really hopefully we'll really look around before i decide on one for my parents  
really do  
because i have been raised in one you know  
so there's lot of things i know to look for  
and i don't think they'd want to go where they used to work either   you know  
i really don't  
it really would  
yes  
yes  
and like i said my sister's still in it  
and i really don't think my [mother'd] want to be there either  
oh  
well it's been nice talking to you  
and i guess we'd better get back to work huh  
all right  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
how do you feel about them i mean since you've   kind of been close to that  
uh_huh  
well i've had a touch of experience  
my um dad had [emphysema] and got to the point where mother couldn't   take care of him  
and uh she put him in  
but he wasn't there very long before he died  
but um i guess um the one time that i saw him there you know as far as the surroundings that seemed okay  
but um we kind of thought that maybe they just wanted to give him some medication to sort of you know   keep him real out of it all the time  
and that's always kind of bothered me  
uh_huh  
i have a sister in law who runs a nursing home  
but i've never actually been there  
and i know that she's the kind of person who wouldn't allow you know a lot of the   horror things to take place that you hear about  
but still   i'm sure there are you know aspects to it   that aren't really desirable  
yeah  
well sometimes you don't have any other alternative  
family and friends are usually well   family's tied up with   their own lives and things and usually working  
and   it's hard to  
yes  
uh_huh  
i think that's important too  
in fact   there's a  
yes  
there's one close to where my mother is  
but in order to get in you have to be able to um walk in on your own  
in other words you can't be in you know too bad a shape   to start out with  
but then if you deteriorate um they have a separate section for those who need care   you know all the time  
but it's always well  
and they have a long waiting list too  
so there's always this feeling of well golly gee you know you've got to be able to walk in the door  
so you can't wait until you're too bad off  
but then you don't want to go do that when you don't have to   because like uh you have to give up your automobile or whatever  
yeah  
and if you're still capable of driving and doing those things then you feel like well gee i'm you know i'm [isolating] myself   here for no reason at the moment  
so it's kind of a that's a hard one  
but it is a very nice nursing home  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's the problem  
the expense of it all is  
and uh what i another thing i hate to see is when someone has a small amount of money and they go into one of these places and they just eat it all up immediately  
but those who don't have money can go in and get the same care   you know  
so i don't like that aspect  
yeah  
that's right  
well yeah  
i've talked to my mother about that several times lately  
and i i said i want you to have control of your own business  
but you know what if  
yeah  
yeah  
my mother's uh seventy five and still has her own home and everything  
yeah  
that's true  
they have a lot of people around to do things with  
some of those places have wonderful activities and things you know lots of stuff going on  
and they'll take them places  
so i don't know  
it's not all bad  
but i guess once you get ill then you know you really have some problems if you can't get around   and do things  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that might be kind of tough huh  
well you too  
okay  
bye  
so um well i'll tell you my situation is uh i have an elderly grandmother that we did just recently put in a nursing home  
and um her son which is my father is also elderly  
and this is one of the reasons why she had to go to the nursing home is that she was literally driving him nuts in his later years  
now my father's almost eighty  
my grandmother's almost ninety seven  
so um it's strange because it it so hit so close to home that um my father's an only child  
and really me and my sister are the only ones that will deal with my grandmother  
she had many sisters  
and a couple of them took care of her  
and then one her last sister died  
and it was probably seven or eight months after that she had to go in a nursing home because i was pretty much giving up my life my sister was and plus she was driving my father crazy  
she went through three [housekeepers] live in [housekeepers]  
so she's kind of cranky to get along with  
there's nothing physically wrong with her except she's very very old  
but her personality is is very [grating]  
i mean i hope i don't get like that when i get old  
so  
yeah  
you don't know if their complaints are legitimate  
um we don't have that problem up here  
we might maybe in a rural uh  
maybe there's a bad uh a bad home in a rural area  
but it would be a very small one  
um the one my grandmother's in is very um hospital like  
there were some really nice ones here  
all the  
a lot of the nursing homes around here have very good [reputations]  
um this one is more or less for someone who's poor and can't go there  
and my father's is he's no by no means wealthy  
but he's quite well off  
and he could easily have put her into a nicer um home  
but up here there's waiting lists  
and that was the first one that opened  
and i suggested to him why don't you change  
um he said well these people here are they are very nice to her  
and he was saying his excuses if you move her some place else the people might not be so nice  
so the the professionals in the nursing homes really have to want to do what their doing because it's a really trying job  
i mean i go up twice a week to see my grandmother  
and i know the staff very well  
so they couldn't they can't hide anything on you or anything like that  
but i have heard of really awful conditions especially down the southern part of the the country which is  
oh that's terrible  
well that's good  
so is your grandmother um [impaired]  
is she of alzheimer's or something like that  
oh  
oh that does happen  
yeah  
yeah  
you know my neighbors across the street their mother was sick at times  
and they they couldn't handle her  
so they put her in a home  
and then uh the old frenchman he'd get a little drunk look round at his kids oh you still need your mother  
i guess i'll look after here  
and that happens a lot when people are sick or they just real [manic] [depressants] they end up being put in homes  
and it's like oh well  
but that's  
it's it's  
i'm really glad that i come from an area where um that there's good people in the homes  
but it's just as  
it doesn't matter if it is like you say the best place they still don't want to go to these homes  
and my grandmother's real there  
i mean she [cries] every day  
this has been over a year  
and she tries to make me feel really guilty  
but i have to you know i have to put my foot down where where my life begins  
i mean if that was my mother i would really feel a lot more responsible  
i would probably take care of my mother  
i don't really um  
when my father when something  
if anything happens to him i don't want him put in a nursing home just for the fact i don't really want to go and visit him at a nursing home  
and hopefully that he can uh get along with uh in house help  
so he's going to probably hopefully set it up so that he will be able to pay someone to come in and stay with him probably for sixteen hours a day because i think that's the best situation is when you're you get that old and you've been independent your whole life you don't want to go into a home because like i say my father's eighty  
and he's really active  
he still has his driver's license here  
i mean you wouldn't believe what he does  
he actually tows cars  
and as the years go on the tow trucks got better more easier  
and he went out and bought himself a flat bed one  
so he won't have to do very much work  
so someone like that they i really don't want to see them go in a home  
he's got two dogs that are his constant companions  
and he always replaces them  
you know i've had like over the past thirty years i've had you know about seven or eight different dogs all the time  
and it's like  
you know it's oops  
dad's got these two  
and the old dies  
and the young one goes for a while  
and he gets another one  
so i can't see him without his animals  
even though it's very expensive to stay at home   mentally it's just the best thing for you  
i mean when you get on in your years it's the only thing you really have  
and i'm thinking when i get older i i i think if brought all my precious belongings with me i think i could live in a home  
i don't want to be a selfish you know a burden on anyone  
that's what i think because i see what my grandmother puts me through  
and i'm saying that when i get older i could probably make the best of this place i mean  
and of course it's institutional food  
and everybody hates it  
and it's so ironic is that they go in there and they lose weight  
it's really it's a bad thing  
but when they go into the homes they lose weight and because of the institutional food you know  
i think it's fine  
but you know my taste buds are pretty uh flexible  
and here they are they're always used to these old fashioned foods  
they're very set in their ways and used to have what they could get at home  
and now they're feeding them um [quiche] and all kinds of strange food that we would eat  
just  
they don't feed them the old people food the chicken and biscuits and things like that  
that's that's the thing my grandmother really misses i mean really [growls] about  
oh  
yeah  
i know if if if people would think ahead of time and do things like that like build the in law apartment   and have it on you know one floor and really easy access  
well that's what i'm telling my father now  
he needs a new floor in his bathroom  
and i says now is the time redo your whole bathroom  
so you can get in and out  
jeez  
yeah  
i'm i'm i have some great concerns about uh my parents and my relatives reaching that age  
um around here where i live in maryland in the washington area there's there's  
and uh i used to live down in dallas there was just so many stories about uh rest homes where the people are being abused where the people are being kept in filthy conditions  
in fact here in baltimore they've actually shut a couple of them down and taken all the people out of them because they were so uh bug [infested] and rat [infested]  
and uh i  
it really concerns me that um first of all that anyone could let someone live like that  
but if you have to you know how do you make sure  
i mean i'm sure when you make your appointment and go by everybody puts on a happy face um  
you know how are you sure that the home is really as good as it is because once you put someone into there you know they may not like the fact that they've been put in there  
and they might complain about the place all the time even though it's the best place in the whole world they could be just because they want to make you feel guilty for putting them in there  
and you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh that's true  
my uh my grandmother's um  
last time my mother went down there to visit the the place where my grandmother was staying at was so [overrun] with roaches that uh she even you know they went in and she had roaches crawling on her  
there were roaches even in her alarm clock um  
yes  
it was absolutely horrible  
they took her immediately out of there  
and they just threw everything away that that she had from there  
i mean they wouldn't even take the uh the uh the dresser that she had that was her own dresser because it was just you know full of bugs  
they just left everything and uh bought her all brand new stuff  
and they they had called a home where they you know where they were on a waiting list to get into there and explained to the person that was in charge you know what had happened and that they had they had to take her out of the home because of the conditions  
and amazingly enough the very next day they had an opening  
and they put her into that opening  
i'm not sure um what exactly is wrong with her  
up until nineteen eighty two uh  
actually i'm sorry not until  
yeah  
i guess it was around eighty two eighty three i found out i had a grandmother  
prior to that i was told that she was dead  
and um apparently what had happened was that i had a grandfather who um put her into a mental institution  
and uh you know it was a real hush hush thing  
and then i was wondering why my mother always referred to you know his second wife as that [hussy]  
yeah  
yes  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
my mother has made similar statements that she doesn't want to become a burden to the family  
you know just put me out to pasture or shoot me or something you know  
are the lines that come from her  
and uh   and i tell her you know no problem mom always got a place for you  
but uh   uh_huh  
hello  
this is jim in dallas  
uh how you doing  
oh you're right here  
okay  
yeah  
i'm actually working tonight  
i just uh called and came in  
do you work at t i  
yeah  
i just got a little booklet uh this not what we're supposed to talk about just got a little booklet in the mail with the gifts  
and i thought i better make some calls  
yeah  
well i haven't had a chance i haven't got a chance to look at them yet  
my daughter uh got a few calls at home  
she talked to some student in  
i guess they give them to computer students too in uh virginia something like that  
she's talked to two students  
yeah  
oh yeah  
great  
uh we're supposed to talk about the elderly now i guess uh  
do you have anybody that you uh are close to that decision on or anything  
or i've thought about it for myself and all  
and my my wife's mother is in a retirement home  
she's not in a nursing home uh  
yeah  
did i didn't we push  
let me i'll hit it again just in case  
i did it as she said  
yes  
but uh she's   she's down in san antonio  
and it's it's a uh it's a brand new one  
it's a catholic uh retirement home for [nuns]  
it's at uh   trinity uh  
no  
let me see trinity  
i keep calling it  
it's not trinity  
i'll think of  
[incarnate] word  
and they have a retirement home for the [nuns]  
and they take some lay people  
yeah  
and that one's really super  
now i i know what they're talking about on regular retirement  
yeah  
there's not too many  
they do have a wing where the people who are really sick you know   have nurses  
and then they have other wings that we visited uh that are very nice  
i mean it's just super  
oh yeah  
they they they have uh like uh a guard with locks  
we've been there once at night at christmas  
she just went in last year  
she drives and everything  
she she she's perfectly healthy  
uh  
well her husband died  
they were in the military together  
and she just did not want to take care of the house  
and she visited the place and then fell in love with it and decided to just [shun] all responsibilities of any kind   so to speak  
and so   she's happy as as heck  
and they serve meals of course  
they have clubs and a swimming pool  
so that's nice  
now i i know the ones where you're really ill we visited a long time ago when   she had a grandmother that was in one  
and they were all more or less hospitalized type   you know really really sick  
it's a tough question  
oh you got more experience than i do then on it  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that would be awful  
i never thought about that you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that uh hopefully we as a country are learning a little more about it  
and they're getting nicer  
i've seen on t v where they take animals and young children  
in fact my daughter is one  
my wife took my daughters one year when they were getting some points for school took them to an elderly home  
and boy that really pumps them up  
that is very nice to see young people  
i think that's one of the sad things is when you're in an older home  
if you just have people your own age you never get a chance to see kids or anything   or animals or anything you know  
you can't take care of them  
kind of obvious you can't take care of children or animals   in a nursing home  
but it's nice to have them visit and everything  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i think you do get more by by stimulation  
my in fact my mother in law just visited  
she's just about seventy five again perfectly fine  
but one and and she visited us here in in dallas  
when she went back every time she goes back to uh san antonio my wife has two sisters there too she said she's much better  
she's much more alive and and uh active when she's been on a visit   with somebody else you know  
and and our routine has obviously hectic with teenagers and everything  
and she's much  
and so the stimulation part is really important i think like any animal anything  
you just lay around uh that's the fastest way to die i think you know  
oh yeah  
i'm afraid i'm a t v [flipper]  
anything bad i like i like to   flip i flip it off  
but it's sad  
it's sad  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
right  
when i was uh younger we i lived in the east  
i'm from the east really  
and it seemed like there were several people that i knew that had their uh parents i guess they would be but well in their  
living with them  
and one of them was even a woman who was fairly old  
and i guess she she had her own separate room  
and i think whether it's more a custom up there or maybe because i was younger  
and it's just not a custom anymore to have uh you know the grandparents live with you anymore  
i guess that uh   well we aren't getting away from that which is not right  
oh yeah  
oh right  
right  
yeah  
oh  
well that's nice in a lot of ways  
bet you were surprised that you said that by mistake  
yeah  
right  
that's what i think about it for me  
i think well my kids better not do that to me  
i don't want that you know  
so i i think of it well how would i want to be treated   rather than well  
it's easy to say oh yeah  
let's put these old folks in a home  
but when i think i don't want to do that you know  
i don't want to be  
i'd want to have my little home  
i always threaten my daughters  
i say well i'm going to build a little house behind yours  
and i'll take care of your lawn he says  
but i'm not going to one of those places  
right  
yeah  
that's what we that's the way we call it which is really wrong  
but my wife's mother and the one she's in san  
it's everything but  
the opposite of what you've seen  
i mean   it's a little hotel you might say  
again a swimming pool and grounds  
and she has enough room  
she has two bedrooms and a and a   separate living area  
they don't have kitchens or anything  
but they have little it's like uh on each floor they have a little kitchen area   where you can go down and have a   make a meal you know  
oh yeah  
it's it's it's nothing like that  
it's like living in the hotel  
i mean   she's totally on her own  
uh and she still drives which we do does scare us some because she has [dented] a few things you know  
and we keep thinking about that you know  
because she they get less alert  
and they don't care  
and i've seen some of these elderly people on t v you know the ones from florida that just run into people  
and they don't even   understand what happened you know  
i know  
i i know  
go ahead  
i'm sorry  
oh he still drives  
that's well it's wonderful in one respect  
but i don't know if you can afford the insurance  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's good  
i mean people are all different  
i i wonder if they should give them a test or at least maybe not take their maybe give them a [refresher] driving course and just to see how well they are every five years  
are they doing it  
yeah  
well everybody needs [retraining]  
it doesn't hurt uh   you know  
the best football players and all the opera singers still have coaches  
and i don't know why you couldn't after sixty five every five years have a [refresher] course and then take another driving  
it would sure the insurance companies would would probably help pay for some of that you know  
right  
there you go  
there's a good point  
very good point  
very good point  
but i think they maybe should do that  
and then the families  
hello  
fine  
i'm [callie] in garland  
yes  
oh are you  
yeah  
you  
i know  
i know  
they  
it was a lot nicer than i expected  
i've talked to  
i don't think they were students  
one i think worked at a university university   um and the furthest away i've talked to someone has been new york  
yes  
we are  
oh well that's a  
did you push the button  
did we  
okay  
just in case  
now what  
oh  
oh  
well isn't that neat  
isn't that neat  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
that's neat  
just supervised more or less than anything and security i guess  
oh  
uh_huh  
what made you all decide to put her or what made her decide to go  
right  
well that's good  
that's great  
uh_huh  
right  
shut ins and  
yeah  
it really is  
i worked in one as a teenager  
i [volunteered]  
well it was really it was really sad heartbreaking i guess  
and uh i just oh i just felt for those people especially the ones that never got visited  
that just bothered me  
that just bothered me so much especially you know at my age  
i was probably about fourteen  
and that really made a bad impression on me  
i always thought not really bad of them i mean because they are most of them i believe are probably pretty good for the people  
but i don't know  
it's just a it would be a tough tough decision  
right  
helps  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
and get that youth back  
you know sometimes that even helps them just being around young people to because some of them are so um just stationary  
i mean they'll get in a wheelchair  
or they'll just sit in a chair  
and and until you come along and really try and pump them up they're just stationary  
and i feel like gosh that's all they do all day long  
so i do love to see young kids go and and men take the pets and everything  
i think that's a real real neat idea  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
right  
right  
stagnant  
yeah  
that's exactly right  
i think they're really neat  
um of course i've seen those reports on t v the horrible ones  
and that scares me  
it's sad to think that we would do that to people  
and you know i've seen them on t v with uh bed [sores]  
and   oh they just stay in the same clothes or the same sheets and not do laundry  
and i just think how can you do that  
these people have given so much of their lives you know to to america   you know whatever  
and here is how we treat them  
just put them in a home and leave them  
uh_huh  
right  
i think  
right  
i think it's neat  
i think uh you learn a lot from them   from all their experiences  
and and that's one of my favorite things to do is sit around and listen to their stories  
i think that's neat  
because they really have a lot of good [insights]   that my my husband's father is really old  
he he had him late in life  
and he's he'll be eighty this year  
and i just uh he lives with different you know people in the family  
he'll switch from time to time  
i just  
yeah  
i just couldn't imagine locking  
not locking him up but putting him in a home and just  
lock him up  
i know  
i know  
right  
exactly  
that's right  
oh you're going to put me away  
that's what my mother  
she always  
you're going to lock me up one day aren't you  
i can tell  
you're going to lock me up  
i know  
right  
that's great  
gosh  
right  
yes  
prepare your  
well that's great  
now can she leave um on a day by herself  
oh man  
that's neat  
right  
right  
i know  
bless their hearts  
you hate to hurt them by doing that  
that's   like their one last thing that they can still do  
and you take away that driving ability  
and that would really be hard  
we've   well we've thought about doing that for my husband's father because he  
yeah  
well luckily he drives a big old tank  
so he i mean i don't think he he could get hurt  
i just hope to god he doesn't ever hurt anyone  
but he   he hasn't had any accidents luckily  
yeah  
yeah  
i saw that on twenty twenty  
they um you know they're testing that they're you know thinking of doing that  
and i think that would be a great idea because i think they do come become less aware  
and they just i don't know they and they don't hear as well for one thing  
and that doesn't help  
right  
at least that way the burden is not on the family of taking their license or their car away  
it's on the state  
okay  
um i don't have any i guess definite views about elderly care  
um the first thing that comes to mind is kind of those horror movies that you see   where elderly people are abused and things like that  
i think that's one thing that i would look at if i was putting my grandmother or my mother uh in some sort of home  
the first thing that i would look at would be their history   as far as any court cases that came out of there um the history of you know their doctors um their nurses and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just out of curiosity what what kinds of things were they doing when they were considered a bad place  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
in pain or something  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
yeah  
i would i would personally hate to know that my mother or grandmother or anyone is in a home like that  
and my biggest fear would that they would be is that they would be lonely  
and i would like to know that there are you know just a lot of activities like you said you know just putting a plant in a room   you know just makes just [brightens] and and   and just makes them just a little more active  
television  
they can go outside  
and just to know that they're not you know laying in a room   looking at gray walls you know   that that's what would just really kill me  
i'd like to know that you know they have friends there  
and they have little conversations and things  
i'd like to know there's a lot of interaction and   maybe some kind of of activity little field trips or something  
i don't know how they would do that  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i didn't realize that there were groups that go in like that  
that's   really neat  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
that will be something you know they would look forward to if they knew you know that the puppy is coming on wednesday  
you know that would be something to look for  
that's really neat  
that really is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
putting any of my family in an elderly home to me would be the very last resort  
you know it um  
and i know it's hard for a lot of families if you're trying to to work or trying to take care of your own family   it's kind of hard to to because an elderly person sometimes can be totally dependent   you know on you  
and i know that's hard sometimes  
and   but it would really have to be a last resort   because that would just  
i would feel so guilty  
i don't know  
unless i knew that they were somewhere just really i mean just really great   you know that they were really enjoying  
i don't know anyone personally that's in an elderly home  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[nod] your head and smile at them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
oh  
that's something that if i had to work in an elderly home i don't think i could do it  
like i i would really like to be a teacher  
but i don't think i could do it because i'm very very emotional  
and the minute i mean the minute something happens  
i cry on i mean [hallmark] commercials  
that's just the end of me  
and so i mean something real life i just  
i interview a lot of children  
i'm an education reporter  
and i always go and do an education things  
i meet these kids who are you know dropping out of school left and right  
and all the sudden they're in this program  
they're making straight a's  
they're going to graduate early  
and i'm just i just want to hug them   and go you are just fantastic  
and you know i could just imagine you know working in a home like that  
and those people they're so sweet and   and so genuine   you know  
and all they want is just for everything to be happy  
and you know   and so that would probably just tear me apart   i mean in a good way  
but   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and children  
i mean usually a of elderly people like to they like to uh share their experiences with the   with the younger children  
they'll be telling them all kinds of stories   that they don't even know what they mean  
you know they feel like they've lived life  
so they need to share it  
and i'm sure i'll be like that too  
yeah  
but that's great  
i didn't know there were such groups  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and i would hate it if anyone put me in one  
yeah  
somebody take care of me  
okay  
okay  
well nice to talk to you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree with you  
i um  
a group that i'm a part of goes once a month to a um they call it the heritage house  
it's it's a nursing home for elderly people  
and this particular one has people that are in pretty bad shape  
a lot of them have had um limbs [amputated] or um have serious illnesses   you know that kind of thing  
and um i watched  
the interesting thing was i watched this particular one change hands  
it started out just being a terrible place for the people  
and then a new company bought it   and came in and remodeled the whole place  
hired new nurses and uh just really just redid it you know  
well to me it was dirty for one thing  
uh when you would walk in the smell was just   awful  
the you know the floors you could just   if you're walking on them feel how filthy they were  
um there were a lot of people just kind of up and down the halls laying in their beds hollering and you know crying  
of course i don't know how many of them were you know not in their right mind   or how many were  
yeah  
yeah  
i just really don't know  
but i feel like they were neglected  
and um yeah  
that was what i was going to say  
it sounds like just neglect all over  
you know neglect to [cleanup]  
i don't really think anyone was being you know cruel or   or trying to [mistreat] them or anything  
i just think they were not doing anymore you know than they had to do  
and um just kind of letting everybody live in a not very good environment  
but this new company came in  
and they like i said they remodeled the place  
and it smells nice when you walk in  
and it looks nice  
and they got like several new color t v's for the people   and redid the dining room where they made it you know a lot more place for them to be  
they made a little patio area where they can go outside  
yeah  
just you know small things that make it seem a lot more homey  
yeah  
and it's like it's a lot more like an apartment place instead of just uh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well they uh  
this place that we visit it's really neat  
they have everyday they have schedules of groups that come in  
and they will do bingo  
our group does a church service once a month  
and then other groups come in and do the services you know other sundays  
so that they have at least one service every sunday  
so there are a lot of things  
there are places that have a lot of things for them to do  
but you really do have to kind of seek it out you know   and make sure that it's not a place like this one was  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it's real nice  
and um i know our church does it  
and there are a lot of other churches  
and they are just like civic organizations   that do  
and uh i have other friends  
it's kinds of neat they take animals over and let the people pet them  
like they also have a dog that maybe needs a home  
and they will wash it all up   and make sure it's it's a friendly animal   you know and take it in and let just let the old elderly people pet the dogs  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i thought that was a real unusual thing   for someone to do  
so yeah  
there's a lot that can be done  
it's just a matter of people not being lazy  
and you know doing the best they can  
again i don't know what i'd do if it was my own mother or grandmother   you know  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i would too  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i know  
i know what you mean  
yeah  
well i have interesting conversations with a lot of these people because um many of them of course their minds are not good  
and so a lot them have told me exactly the same story you know  
every time i visit them   they'll [reminisce] about childhood   and tell me something that they did  
and then the next time i go it's the same thing you know   that just somebody to listen to them  
uh just seems to make them really feel good  
right  
i'll tell you the people i feel the [sorriest] for  
there's a guy at this particular one i go to   that i think that he's really an intelligent person  
but he has [cerebral] [palsy] so bad that he just cannot communicate  
and um he's blind  
and he has [seizures] you know  
i mean he's just like in a world of his own  
and yet he wants so much   to be around people  
and if you come over to him if he can touch your hand he'll grab it and kiss it  
oh and he's always got a smile  
i mean he really tries to [brighten] up your life  
oh it's just amazing  
but he can't say anything  
he can just kind of make noises  
yeah  
yeah  
me too  
yeah  
i know  
i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh it does  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it's really hard  
and   but one of the neatest things i think though is we always take our kids  
i have a three year old and a six year old  
and they um have gotten comfortable being around these people   because they've always gone with us  
and the people love them  
and they want the children you know to hug them or hold their hand  
and so far my kids will do it just real easily  
and i think it's because they've gone since they were real little  
and they've never been afraid  
but that's something  
to me children   you know need to  
people need to take groups of children   because the kids just [brighten] up their lives  
as we walk through the the lobby they'll all say bring her here  
i want to see her  
i would love to hold her  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
well me too  
yeah  
it's quite an experience  
yeah  
yeah  
there are  
and and uh it really helps those people i think  
but like you said i'd really have a lot of second thoughts before i put any of my own family members there  
it would be a last resort  
oh i know  
i'm always afraid like oh  
no  
what if i lose my mind  
am i going to end up in a place like that  
yeah  
that's right  
well  
yeah  
you too [tonya]  
thanks for calling  
bye  
uh_huh  
well my parents are both in their seventies  
my my mother and stepfather and my father and [stepmother] are all in their seventies  
and my uh uh father and [stepmother] are not in very good health  
so this is something that is  
yes  
it is  
yes  
they are  
they are  
not for them my my mother and stepfather have have uh set up an arrangement where they have a large home and uh two of my sisters and and their families one of them's husband and then all the children are living in this home  
its got a lot of bedrooms and bathrooms  
and and uh they all share the same kitchen and dining room and den and kitchen  
and and uh my father bought this uh my stepfather bought this thinking of a time when one or the other of them might need care  
and they felt like that would be their alternative to a nursing home  
unless unless they were so ill that they needed nursing care that could not be given in the home  
well i i felt good about it because that's my personal feeling also  
i uh i read a lot  
and then i know people then have visited nursing homes and uh have had great grandparents in the nursing homes  
and it was not a happy situation for for any of them  
and and uh we have a very active nursing home here in plano that that has uh activities going all the time  
and they have uh  
even the people that are wheelchair bound and and really are are incapacitated   go and uh participate in olympics  
and they make their crafts and sell them at a big fair that's held annually at a big mall here  
you know so there are a lot of a lot of activities going on all the time  
and this is a nursing home  
it's not a senior citizens home  
so that the people are really uh  
right  
they need   the nursing care  
and and but it's a very expensive solution  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
and that's right i well i took my husband one night to an emergency room when he was in an emergency situation  
and uh they brought in a very elderly man from a nursing home who had had uh apparently [inhaled] some chicken he was eating  
and uh he had apparently had not been in the home too long just a week or so  
but when they the family came in to see him they had not been made aware  
i was in the room when the emergency technicians brought him in from the ambulance  
and i overheard their conversation  
and when the family walked in his wife and daughter and son in law they were not even aware of what had happened  
so i told them he strangled on some chicken  
and uh they said the the woman the wife said he was not even supposed to be eating any food like that that would require chewing or   so you know  
and i thought  
right  
right  
and then she was upset  
he had on two different shoes one of which was not even his  
he had on a pair   of slacks  
and the wife said these are not his slacks  
and she said i just took two pair over yesterday for him that were clean  
and  
right  
right  
well i this was just something that i was   i witnessed to  
and and uh at no point did anybody from the nursing home come in  
and we were there in the same room with the man for a half hour  
and with just a curtain of course between us and and uh  
they [revived] the man and cleared out his [airway] and so forth  
and he was definitely  
just by looking at him and the way he acted you could tell he was in need of of nursing home care  
but the family were all talking about uh putting him in another home  
they said he will not go back   to that one  
i'm glad they the option  
i i would hate to be in a position where that was all i could afford  
and there were not there was no choice  
oh my  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's right  
visits everyday  
right  
visit  
right  
right  
suspicious  
you know i i my i remember my my grandmother many years ago when she was in a nursing home before she died  
and i guess there was not a name for what she had at that time  
but i guess alzheimer's would come as close as anything  
she really was not aware of what she was doing  
and uh i i can remember she had several strokes  
and the nursing home was right next to a hospital  
and they would rush her to the hospital and [revive] her and just bring her back to the nursing home in a couple of days  
and it was she was it was just like keeping something  
okay  
well the topic is selecting care for the elderly  
and i don't have elderly parents yet but not that far in the distant future  
what about yourself  
a concern of yours right now  
are are they living independently right now  
oh  
have you looked at any homes for them or talked to them about that  
oh that sounds the ultimate  
well even at that point most care can be given at in the home  
that sound like just an excellent solution  
you must feel real good about that  
uh_huh  
right  
really in need of a nursing home  
right  
uh_huh  
well it's you know  
i think we just you know listen to is the fact that there are good solutions both inside and outside of nursing homes  
it's just a matter of finding   a good home  
and and then of course there is always the problem of being able able to afford either of those solutions  
and that i think is what is scary  
and i also feel that that's where some of the bad [images] of nursing homes come from is when people have to put people in a nursing homes  
and they really can not afford the best  
oh  
oh goodness  
oh  
what a shame  
they put him in the home so that he could be cared for  
and then they could have done that well at home  
oh  
you hear these stories   all the time  
you happened  
right  
oh  
right  
well good  
good  
i'm glad they have a solution   to do that  
yes  
i know  
exactly  
my uh my ex husband's grandmother had been in a nursing home now for oh it must be seven eight years  
and uh and uh   it's just her her condition deteriorated deteriorated instantly upon getting into that home  
as the situation is so sad because it just takes all the [dignity] away from   from people who have been independent all their lives  
like this was a really neat vital woman  
and you get in a nursing home  
and the first thing that happens you have to share your your whole living space   with someone that you have never known before in your life  
and oh i i do not know what the answer is  
but i do know that there are some wonderful places out there  
and it i think it does  
a lot of it goes down to just money   and family support  
uh if you you know have family that uh you can live with  
right  
right  
i i really  
i think the way of selecting a nursing home would be similar to the way you would select child care you know  
you would do your research  
and you would go visit  
and uh hopefully they would have they would have it so that you could go there anytime  
because if you could not go there anytime then that would make you   a little bit  
right  
uh_huh  
hi  
you want to start first  
right  
uh_huh  
you apparently have somebody there in one  
oh you are kidding  
oh  
uh_huh  
i will be darned  
uh_huh  
oh for heaven's sake  
you are very very much aware of what goes on  
that is great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i will be darned  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now see that is a nice attitude to go into  
uh it seems like they must be waiting until it is a necessity  
and there is no chance of uh good companionship or doing anything  
uh_huh  
uh right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that is true  
but what i mean is instead of maybe entering a nursing home   when you are still able to have good   relationships with   maybe other friends   they wait until they are you know unable  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that is great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
see if they could could get this idea across though better than what it is   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well you have that with anything  
oh yeah  
in the homes yeah  
well   we used our nursing home as uh  
like when my sister was real bad before she died   uh we took her the last month and a half   into a nursing home  
and they were super with her  
they were uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well a lot of people do that  
they   left them [temporally] maybe they had a   broken hip or something or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and it can become home to them  
it   it depends upon the individual  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
this is  
and  
there has to be consideration taken on everything  
yeah  
that is right  
you would look into it thoroughly and   do do the best job you could in choosing one  
uh_huh  
no  
and you do not have the time to look  
that is what   i am saying  
most people will not even look at that until it becomes a necessity  
uh_huh  
whatever their talents yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have a cousin who is uh  
she had a son that was [epileptic] from birth  
and he did fine   at home  
they lived on a farm  
but she made arrangements so that when she was gone   she did not want her her children   her other children [burdened] with his care  
so he they she has made arrangements that when she she was gone that he would go into the nursing home  
and he has i would say he adjusted very well  
and uh he he he has been there quite a long time  
and uh he don't know me usually  
so he goes wheeling down uh the hall to bingo  
somebody else is helping him out   you know  
and uh he has adjusted very well  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to keep them there uh_huh  
true  
yes  
but   for some reason people resist uh the fact that they should be paid as well as businesses and that type of thing you know  
it seems to be a resistance  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
but there seems to be a resistance  
yeah  
yeah  
so uh  
well around here we have some you know the churches   take your the children  
and   i know our kids thoroughly  
the children thoroughly enjoy  
of course  
we are talking about the elderly and   uh whether or not we we like nursing homes  
and   as a matter of fact i can tell you something about that  
no  
actually my grandmother owned and operated a nursing home for years  
and her mother  
no  
she did  
and then my mother also owned and operated a nursing home   for years   and then uh went on back to school and became the director of nurses at a nursing home  
and uh my mother and my older sister both are geriatric nurses  
so i do know something about that  
absolutely  
actually the motivation for grandmother entering the business   was that her mother was very old   and couldn't seem to find companions  
she was lonely  
and she needed company   for her mother  
and so she opened a nursing home and initially started with eight ladies  
and then uh it it grew into a   very [prosperous] business from that point  
uh then they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that is not really true either uh  
i think that is a stigma and an i   and an impression that has come from some few bad experiences  
you see those who had bad experiences talk about them  
and those who do not may write   a letter to the nursing home and say you did good  
but they do not talk a whole lot about that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
well now   that is right  
well that is because they wait until the children make those choices   they choose to not make those   choices themselves  
however my daughter in law also is a nurse in a nursing home  
and uh she works for one here in dallas which is more a retirement village than it is a nursing home  
and these these  
i love watching these elderly people come they will come and tell her well i am going for my   tennis lessons  
and uh would would you you know call down and have the van come around and take   us for our tennis lessons  
and they are very active and very enthusiastic  
and they have   some excellent programs right there on site  
their dining room looks like you know luby's cafeteria  
or or one of the lovely cafeterias  
and they have you know pink [linen] [napkins] for their dinners   and a well equipped library  
oh i am certainly very much for a nursing home  
and i think when the the parent gets old enough   to the extent where they just do not want to be bothered with keeping house   and with taking care of themselves   anymore that is a wonderful alternative  
it is expensive  
it is costly  
uh_huh  
well now my daddy's mother uh lived in a a retirement village  
and she and her sister had side by side duplexes   one bedroom duplex  
she still had her individuality  
but they were there close  
and they did have uh you know the button that you could push the central office if you got into problems  
and   there were lights that you could flip on and so forth  
and they have security  
no  
i am very much in favor  
i have heard horror stories  
i know that the elderly can easily be abused  
but i would be willing to bet they are far less abused in a nursing home than are they are in   homes of their own children  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
well now my grandmother  
of course all of my folks lived to be very old  
and my grandmother developed [hodgkin's] disease   when she was in her late eighties   uh late seventies i mean  
she went to the doctor  
she had surgery  
she got the treatments  
and during   the period of time that she was [undergoing] those treatments she was in a nursing home  
she got better  
she got well  
she got out and went dancing again  
uh_huh  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it is a wonderful interim place  
it is a place that you do not have to struggle with hospital   problems  
and yet it is not you know  
you have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it certainly is  
it certainly does  
but you see we have had excellent experience with that  
and uh i i did not put my husband in a nursing home when he became ill  
but   i would not object to going to one  
i might   i might like to be uh coherent enough to make my own choice  
uh i would not particularly think i would want my kids to say well i think this is what i need for mom and   then dump me there  
but i would like  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i think you would shop for a nursing home just like you would shop for a church   or a doctor or anything else  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
when you get to the point where you are in trouble   and you have got to have that help you are in no position to make those choices  
that is right  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
i think that one of the best ways to do that is for families to realize they are going to be needing those facilities one day   and to actually get involved and participate on a community level with community service  
go out to the nursing home help guide some craft programs perhaps work on some music programs whatever their talents are   and work with   those senior citizens  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is right  
uh   well one of the things i think that is most desirable for the elderly and that is routine  
routine and   uh [constancy]  
uh the only real problem with that in a nursing home is that the staff turns over  
i do not think they pay   the nursing home staff [sufficiently]   to to get the dedication   that they have in some other profession  
and that is sad because i think the health profession is one of the most critical  
and uh  
that is right  
care for the elderly and care for the children   i cannot imagine a more costly and a more   a more uh better area to invest   your money  
you are preserving your heritage and your future there  
and as a matter of fact i do not see why they do not have children's programs in nursing homes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we're to discuss a little bit about the process of putting someone in a nursing home and making the decision on a family basis  
and probably the first question would be whether you've ever had to go through that process  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so it was pretty much a physical decision  
um  
yeah  
my husband's family are reaching that point  
but it's it's so difficult  
was she in favor of it  
or or was she kind of opposed to it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so often i think though elderly people don't realize that their diet is that bad  
i work with a lot of elderly people  
i'm a trust officer  
and so often they think they're adequately caring for themselves when they're really not eating very much or very balanced meals  
yes  
well you know that's part of the aging process   that your taste buds goes back to the sweet taste  
it really is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the portions  
people don't want to try to figure out little bitty individual meals  
i do that right now  
and i'm not near nursing home age  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so as a family you all just visited nursing homes  
or probably in college station there wasn't a whole lot of choice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's a given  
uh_huh  
and sometimes the the help there does it i think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
adapt  
yeah  
i as i think i mentioned i was in the trust business  
and i've seen so many elderly people  
usually there has to be some wealth involved which is great if if you're financially if if you don't make the decisions so late that you're worried about money  
but   the the places like presbyterian village and some of the the retirement places where where they have different levels of care seems to be so much better as far as elderly people [adapting]  
they're able to move in while they're still independent   and still social  
and and they do group things  
and then if health or or mental capacity [deteriorates] they're able to take the next steps without so much change  
and oh i wish everybody could go that direction rather than just all of a sudden moving out of the home they've always been in  
it's really kind of difficult  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well and it's the first step in in actually accepting that you are failing and and aging  
you know once you make that step you know that it's just going to be downhill from then on  
and and i've seen people really fight it that desperately needed   to make the change  
they they became  
in fact that's probably what's going to happen with my husband's mother  
she's going to [endanger] herself before she'll willingly and probably will never willingly make the decision  
and that scares me the the thought of forcing somebody to do something  
yeah  
uh_huh  
not as independence  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the quality of life really isn't there  
oh it's tough  
it really is  
uh_huh  
well they fear being dependent   on somebody  
they they fear being a burden   to to family members  
my husband's mother will have major surgery  
and we'll find out about it in a casual conversation  
she'll let something slip  
and we'll say wait a minute  
and and that's it  
she just well  
i didn't want to bother you  
she can't accept that we want to be the care givers  
yeah  
well she stayed she stayed in a temporary nursing home   until she was okay  
you know it's just  
but it's frightening to us because we live pretty far from her  
she's down in temple  
and we can't see her often enough to really know what's going on  
so it's difficult  
it really is  
and we're all heading that way  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well not so much personally  
but my um husband has an aunt who has been like a second mother i mean always lived in the same town and took care of him and such  
they live down in college station where   his parents do too  
and they put her in a home last year  
she appeared to have a couple of light strokes and started to uh not be able to be in her apartment on her own  
so they found a a place nearby that they put her in last year  
uh yeah  
although she is uh in pretty good health and she's doesn't take any medication  
it's just she had had her own apartment and drove a car and everything up until that point  
then she was starting to get uh you know lose memory sometimes and which is kind of frightening when she's in the car  
uh  
well yeah  
when it finally came down to it um she just got to the point after the  
i mean it wasn't a very um strong stroke  
it was just kind of all of a sudden she wasn't herself anymore  
and she got kind of fearful of being on her own  
she never really ate very well  
it was one thing  
she hardly   ever took care of herself  
and she didn't eat  
she ate very poor  
so i think she was you know bad uh nutrition on top of it  
and uh she got to the point she didn't want to alone anymore  
so  
um  
well she was almost ridiculous  
like she'd eat ice cream and cookies  
she'd  
didn't one  
oh really  
well she didn't want to cook for herself anymore  
oh that's too much trouble  
that's too much trouble  
didn't want to cook  
yeah  
although they've got uh meals on wheels   which i understand is a really good you know way to handle that so that at least they eat  
no  
i don't think there was um  
i know a little bit more from a a co worker  
her mother in law had been in for quite some time and had different degrees of a place that she was in  
um she was ambulatory  
and so there was a lesser care  
uh then she got uh uh hip broken  
and then uh she wasn't as ambulatory  
so they   were almost you know to the point of saying she can't be here anymore  
but i remember from her checking around she ended up staying at the arkansas house i think out in arlington something like that  
and uh you know the type of facilities whether it's a shared room or two separate rooms that share uh a uh bathroom all of them all seem to say that people there are going to steal their items  
they're always saying that somebody's going to  
and some of them i think unconsciously do it you know   as a just you know half  
uh so they they uh don't have too many facilities it seems for their personal items   very limited space waste  
but um at least they all seem to have uh you know people that monitor their uh medication intake and dining facilities you know go to the dining room   and and eat some good meals  
i know when my friend's mother in law first went in i mean very [antisocial]  
maybe it takes a while for them to say okay well i'll be with other people  
but  
yeah  
i don't understand   that they they don't want to be with anybody else  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have a um  
my [aunt's] mother is uh gotten ill recently  
and uh she lives in pennsylvania  
they live in alabama  
and they're saying hey we need you to be closer  
and   you have women like that  
i don't to men  
it seems like the women out just out live their husbands but very reluctantly  
that   whole i mean  
they don't get out of the house  
they don't socialize  
but it's my home  
and i don't want to leave it  
uh  
um  
but it's it's so lonely  
you know they can't get out and see anyone  
and   i mean it's hard for for someone like me to understand that  
because i i think what do you have there  
it's a house  
it's walls  
and it's furniture  
but   there's nobody there  
don't you want to be close to me   i mean you know   be with other people  
i just don't understand why they so much want to just stay in   that building  
and there's no family there  
they don't get to see their grandkids  
they don't get to see their children  
they just there in that house  
yeah  
that's from the child's standpoint  
the child is going why don't you want to be close to me and your other family  
what does that house got attraction  
i know they're really proud of independence  
uh  
well when she got home who took care of her  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
my   husband and i we have been thinking about his folks are in college station  
and we've pretty much planned that we'll be here in the dallas area  
and   there's nothing to hold them there in college station since they're retired  
so we thought maybe we could get them to move a little closer here  
how would you feel about sending an elderly family member to a nursing home  
uh_huh  
right  
and what type of recommendations did you have when you decided where to place him  
oh my  
yeah  
so the convenience  
right  
my grandmother lived with us um until august um  
and we made the decision to put her in a nursing home  
she has leukemia  
and her the rest of her family and her regular doctors and everybody she trusted and knew was in dayton and were several thousand miles away  
so i made the decision to put her in a nursing home  
and my sister being on the other end found one that she could have what was called an independent living facility  
she had her own little room and didn't have to share it with anyone and could bring in her own chair and t v set  
so  
yes  
and that the other major factor is that she needs blood transfusions every week to ten days and would have to be hospitalized a day or two  
so in this facility they can do it right there from her own room  
so she didn't have to be [transported] back and forth  
so she's been there since august the [thirteenth] and seems to have adjusted pretty well  
it's not her favorite place to be in  
she'd much rather be here with me  
but   when it got to the point i was spending more time at the hospital with her  
and i've got little children here who needed me here  
she needed somebody to watch her twenty four hours a day  
so  
she was falling down and [hemorrhaging]  
and you know all kinds of physical problems  
so it just became too much for me to handle  
even though i would have liked to have had her stay with her health being what it was she couldn't   anymore  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
yes  
well i think sometimes when people get to be a certain age other people have to kind of help them make decisions  
it sure wouldn't have been [granny's] decision to leave us and go back to a nursing home  
but she's accepted it real well now  
so  
well we enjoyed   having her here  
but we feel she's much safer where she is now  
she still continues to fall  
but when she does there a nurse is right there to help her  
and i know she's eating the right things  
and her doctor's right there where he can come in and check on her  
so it became dangerous for us to keep transporting her back and forth in the car because she was so [wobbly] and needed a walker or a wheel chair  
so i think she'll adjust  
well i don't feel very good about it  
but i think that at some times it can be the right thing to do  
we sent my grandfather to a nursing home at the point when he was really [incapable] of caring for himself anymore  
he actually died a few months after that  
and so as  
at least in retrospect it was the right thing to do  
because he was either in a nursing home or a hospital   or something else that he would have been spending most of his time in those days  
um well the see uh well  
we he wanted to get into a mennonite nursing home which is very popular and hard to get into and had like a ten year waiting list  
right  
we wound up just choosing a another mennonite nursing home that was easier to get into  
or but naturally  
no  
it was even mennonite related  
i'm sorry it was actually not a particularly great nursing home  
mostly the thing was that it was available when we needed it   because he suddenly got sick   and needed to be put in  
uh what do you think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's important   i would say  
okay  
yeah  
right so that  
right  
and   that becomes difficult then  
uh_huh  
yep  
we tried to convince my grandfather to live with us at several points during the last few years of his life  
but he was essentially too proud and too independent   so that even though his heart was getting incredibly weak and his knees were going bad   he lived in his own house as long as he could  
but he was living alone had an upstairs apartment could barely make it up the steps   to the top without a great deal of pain  
and this  
eventually things just went too far  
and he allowed himself to be put into a nursing home  
right  
well that's yeah that's right that the children have some responsibility too to their parents and such to help decide what's the right thing  
and  
uh_huh  
yep  
now then i think that  
are you there  
all right  
do you have any one that has been in a nursing home  
oh  
yes  
well what do you think can be done about that  
i mean what can we do  
well i can  
of course i'm   old enough to remember when the family or the church took care of all of this  
we did not have to call on on someone else  
and i feel  
no you tell me how you feel about  
yeah  
certainly  
i worked with an agency in west texas that they it's where they really started this concept of meals on wheels  
and i think it's such a valuable thing for our elderly  
if they didn't have to you know go into a kitchen  
my mother expired just just a little over a year ago  
and we had finally  
she didn't want to live with either my sister or me  
but we we got found a retirement center for her  
and it was beautiful  
and they had all these they didn't even have nursing care there  
so until  
as long as mother was you know   mobile and   got her food  
and she was with people with whom she enjoyed  
sure  
yes sir  
uh_huh  
being a widow   i find that eating alone is one of the hardest things   i have to do  
i have just recently retired  
and i am finding it extremely hard to adjust to  
so uh mother had the little kitchenette  
and she could do all these fine things that she just had a microwave had to pop   her popcorn  
now this is wonderful  
but when it came time for a full meal then mother was able to go with people   and and enjoy  
oh i think so  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm here  
uh well only my um my grandmother but for a very short time  
um she uh she was just more or less in a in a nursing home for uh recovery from a broken hip   because she could receive more medical attention  
but um that  
physical therapy was there and whatever  
but i think in visiting her there um it was very obvious to see that a lot of the people in the nursing home that she was in uh weren't there mentally  
uh she was probably the only person in the um whole nursing home that uh still had all of her mental facilities about her  
so that was uh that was very [disheartening]  
oh yeah  
it's really hard i guess  
i i come from a family of um of uh take care of your [elders] i guess  
uh my my dad's mother is an invalid  
and she lives with my aunt and uncle  
and they care for her you know all around the clock  
though she's not uh she doesn't have to receive constant medical attention she because of arthritis she's just unable to get out of bed  
so i guess you know there's that family commitment  
um i know that my parents my mother is trying to let my grandmother stay in her house as long as she can um  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well probably i think as long as the person's able to um to understand what's going on around them  
and i think you know my grandmother right now is still able to walk around  
and she's still able to uh to do some things for herself though she gets meals on wheels   which i think is a great thing because um it saves people from having to prepare food for her because you worry a little bit about her leaving a stove on or whatever although she does most things very well it still makes a little bit easier for her  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that  
i think you know it's really funny  
i have two grandmothers still alive  
and my one grandmother says that she wants to stay in her house for as long as possible  
she's like openly told people  
she's always been very good about knowing  
yes she's eighty nine  
and she said that she would really like to stay in her house as long as possible because it's her home  
but when the time comes um she and she can't do things  
and she has to be cared for whatever she would prefer and she's actually said this to move into some type of community where she has her own apartment uh probably with like a living space and a bedroom   with maybe a kitchenette so that if she you know if she wants to fix herself something light she can do that  
but if she wants to go to a meal she can go down the hallway uh to a room where there's a cafeteria  
and there's other people there  
and she can mix with them and talk with them and enjoy their company  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i think i think that probably until until they're really [invalids] uh the elderly are [invalids] i think that they should be able to interact with other people   in an environment that they choose if they can if the family can afford it  
i mean um see i know that my grandmother would like to stay in her house  
and my parents actually said you know that they may have to take their end sometime so because you know my grandma she says who she wants to live with  
she's pretty you know  
she lets people know  
well about nursing homes   and and older people  
uh my husband has a grandmother that lives with his mother  
and they're just really close here  
and his mother has bad health too  
and so i go over sometimes in the day when he's at work  
and i um help with her and [bathe] her and feed her  
and uh and i that's hard to be a caretaker i really believe  
it's really difficult to be a caretaker twenty four hours a day  
uh she has alzheimer's and does not remember uh a lot   if anything  
and so she asks the same questions over and over again which is not you know unrealistic  
um and so you just have to try and be patient and answer them again or just answer another question  
uh i uh  
some nights his mother calls me and says can your family  
and just bring the kids in the family  
and just come over and and visit grandma because she gets very [disoriented]  
she's ninety two  
oh i think that's wonderful  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i was just going to say  
yeah  
um  
yes  
uh i think it's wonderful these these places that aren't nursing homes necessarily  
but they can go and [reside] there like little apartments   places in between places  
and i like that idea if they can handle it themselves  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
nursing homes  
visit  
uh_huh  
they don't go and see them  
that's right  
that's right  
you know um i i think nursing homes are are um some are good  
i have to say that  
but for the most part i truly believe that the parents would be better if they were with the children  
um  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
i hope so  
you know it's i think it's very difficult in the first place to make that choice   to have them go there  
and then if you find out that they are not having good care you know i'm sure that it is just   you know you'd pull them out of there so fast  
and uh and yet if you didn't feel like you could be a good caretaker i don't uh  
it's a very very hard decision i think  
uh_huh  
i think that's right  
and especially if you're not a person that is like a medical person maybe or something that the person needs medical treatment  
now i know a friend of mine who had a father uh she brought to her home uh to live there  
but he needed the medical treatment  
and she had a nursing person come in like three times a week to to help him out  
and that might be a partial solution   or something  
but um i personally am for the trying it at home caretaker part before i think i'd ever  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i think we kind of are along the same lines  
good to hear from you  
have a lovely day  
what is it about nursing homes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh it's very difficult  
i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
how old is she  
uh my see my father is ninety two  
and still uh he and mother still live at the house and drive and   and do the whole thing  
but you know if something would uh whenever something happens to one of them then   i don't know what i'll do up there  
i i just know that too many horror stories about nursing homes  
and so  
they're in missouri  
and i could i i know i know stories for sure that they just they they just well they can't take the proper care of them   most of them  
and uh it's it's tragic that you know when people live so long that they uh don't have a really don't have a place to go  
so  
right  
yeah  
there's one very close to where my parents are  
but uh i think it would be nice  
but my dad's the type he wouldn't want to spend the money on anything  
so uh i mean he's from that old depression era  
and uh you know it's oh it's just [blissfull] that they're both   able to do everything for themselves  
i would imagine that i'll uh if something happens i'll move one of them or you know in in with me  
so uh  
but i know a lot of people have said that and then find out how tough it is  
and but i think you'd have to really  
they also wanted us to talk about you'd have to really check on the uh   on this homes  
but i just don't know how much you can see when you go for a  
i think you just have to drop in all unexpectedly a lot  
and so many people when they put people in the nurses home they never see them  
they never go to see them  
i've talked to many uh owners of places and say that nobody even  
maybe maybe christmas  
uh_huh  
right  
oh i do too  
or if if they could be real real nearby where they could see them everyday or so  
uh because i know governor richards is really upset about what she's finding in the nursing homes uh regulation in texas  
so maybe we'll get it improved  
so  
anyway  
right  
oh it's tough i'm sure  
oh  
right  
that would be devastating i'm sure  
so  
it is a tough decision  
and it's one that needs a great deal of thought   and prior probably  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
i would hope we could do that   and then go from there  
well anyway  
we've covered a little bit  
and uh it's good to hear from you  
and  
have a good  
have a good  
um i don't  
i am only twenty eight  
and i haven't had much experience with nursing homes  
i don't i have never visited any of them  
and uh i don't think i've ever even been in one  
have you  
uh_huh  
and it it takes a lot of care  
like twenty four hours a day someone   has to be   well there's someone in my my fiancee's family  
his grandmother too and they're that her son his uncle whatever you know anyway  
he he has he's recently retired  
and so he's the one who she moved in with when she had a stroke  
and and all the other children are working or whatever  
they're all my parents age  
and uh so he's got you know his retirement though is really twenty four hours a day  
they have a day care two days a week  
they call it senior citizen day care  
but she goes in the senior citizen center  
so he gets a break two days a week  
but it's only for like two or three hours at a time  
and you know just you see a lot of things like you you know was a great golfer and wanted to play golf when he retired  
and you know that a lot of the things he thought he would do when he retired he's not able to do now  
but he refuses to consider any other  
i don't  
yeah  
and is that how your parents feel  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know at this  
i know i feel like i would never do that with my parents either you know  
but i i really feel bad for the people i see not very  
i'm not really really experienced  
but like i said i just have that one family  
and i just really feel bad for the guy who his whole life is different now  
and than he thought it would be  
but  
yeah  
and he's got you know seven brothers and sisters  
and and uh he's the one because he's the one that isn't going to work every day and that she moved in with when she needed to move in with someone  
and  
oh well that's great  
that's a good idea  
we ought to  
yeah  
and maybe when the other brothers and sisters retire or whatever i don't know what they're going to do  
it's really not my family  
it's my fiancee's  
so i don't i can't say much  
but i always feel like i would never put my parents in either  
and i wonder i'm going to be the only [sibling] that isn't going to have children  
so if my parents do need to live with someone it will probably be with me because all my brothers and sisters will be having teenagers around and everything to care for   you know  
and i'm i  
that's fine with me  
my fiancee and i both figure that's what's we're going to end up with both of the parents or whoever  
if  
you know what i mean  
we feel like   it's our responsibility  
and i feel like i would never put them in a home  
but i wonder how much you know if one of us is going to have to quit work someday or retire early or something  
you think about it  
and it's really  
i don't know  
this country kind of takes the worst care of the elderly of any other country  
and   it's really more of a um like a respect issue that the older older people in other countries that i've been to seem to really have a lot more respect for the elderly people  
and and they really seem as wise  
and and in this country nobody really   yeah nobody really pays attention  
and they oh the old timer made with the old way  
and nobody respects the traditions  
and you know it's i  
i'm not saying that i do either  
but   you know it's just funny  
and and we really don't have any that don't have the social security  
and everything really isn't that much   for elderly people to live on  
you know even if they're in good health it's incredible  
they don't have any  
they don't get special treatment and maybe they should you know   because we're all going to get old someday  
and so it's a it's kind of a depressing topic though  
how old are you  
so it is yeah and it must be rough for you too to see your grandmother  

um actually i have um i've i've been in them but um just visiting  
and uh we used to when we were like in in our teen ages  
we'd go on sundays and visit you know the older people  
but um i have an elderly grandma that lives with us  
and she's lived with us for like five years  
so i kind of know how it is to how to decide if you want to put somebody in a rest home  
or um like we i mean we've had those discussions you know about should we put her in or because she's pretty senile  
and  
yeah  
it's  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
right  
to put her in a rest home  
um well see it's more my grandma that feels that way  
she says that when her husband died that he said oh that my uncle had said that he would never put her in a rest home  
so it's kind of uh  
i don't know  
i mean i don't i don't think my parents would  
but she is getting pretty bad  
like she has to have like a little toilet right by her bed  
and   it's  
and my mom has to take care of her pretty much  
so it gets  
i don't know  
it's it's a hard decision  
but i don't think i would do it to my parents personally  
when he retired  
yeah  
it's like that good for us just because my uncle and my and my mom switch off like we have her for three months  
and then he has her for three months  
so that   that works out good  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you think  
i i   i'm not really familiar with how other countries  
they're seen as senile  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i know  
um i'm twenty  
yeah  
it's   it really is  
but and she she drives us  
okay  
have you faced uh elderly care yet uh nursing home care for any of your parents  
uh_huh  
yes  
i think sooner or later uh  
both my mother and my husband's mother we had to end up putting in nursing homes  
and they were to the point that they only lived both of them about six weeks once they got in  
and uh_huh  
and it's absolutely i believe that was one of the hardest things i ever did   in my life  
i that it just you know it's absolutely devastating  
what have you found in dealing with the nursing homes  
yes  
um uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
no  
uh there well there's a little bit of difference in in the two between my mother and my mother in law  
and uh theirs both ran  
oh i think my mother in law's was like fifteen hundred  
and my mother's was two thousand  
then this has been five years ago  
and uh   uh one of the things that you know i had discovered is that if they knew that i came in there at all different hours they got much better care than if  
when i started out with my mother in law because she was in there first i   would go certain hours  
and they knew  
and if i'd pop in unexpectedly i discovered you know they did a little bit they did better  
you know uh_huh  
and you know a couple of times with my mother in law i would catch something not being taken care of   and you know would have to rate  
so i got to where i knew then when my mother was in that you know not to go the same time all the time   because they would  
and when i was looking for the nursing homes another thing that i learned uh  
we had my mother all set to go into one  
and for some reason i just went back and on my own went around the different floors  
and i saw areas that they had not shown me  
and they did not come across as well   as you know what they had originally shown me  
so uh we did not put her in that one  
we put her in another one that i i went a couple of times   when they weren't expecting me and saw and you know was much uh better pleased   with the situation  
yes  
you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
does your mother have alzheimer's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did she know that she was going to a nursing home  
did she know that she was going to a nursing home  
uh_huh  
unfortunately yes  
uh in fact tonight i had the dinner with uh my three brothers and our wives  
and we were talking uh  
we had a review with the nursing home staff  
my mother's in a nursing home  
and uh we had a review today  
and a few things we had to do that are part of it that you don't really like like uh making decisions on living [wills] and   extended care that type of thing  
so yes  
i'm very familiar with it  
and it's not something that is uh you know  
i never thought i'd have to go through this kind of experience  
but i guess we all do  
oh really  
uh_huh  
right  
well they're not every all the horror stories you hear about them i think are true  
uh we've you know we've looked around  
and my wife has looked at extensively at all the ones in the area  
and the one she is in now uh there's a lot of drawbacks a lot of things we don't like  
but again it's no different than every one  
and you know the cost of it the three thousand dollars a month  
when you think about it for what you're paying a hospital for   almost the same well even not as much care  
it's not that expensive really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i'll be darned  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you you know this is the whole point  
you've got you've got to shop them  
i know my mother's in now in a unit that's mainly alzheimer's  
and uh we're convinced that she probably would be better off in a geriatric  
uh the fact that these people are they're up and around  
but they're they're it's reminds me too much of an asylum type   situation  
and it's very very  
she  
well who knows  
they call it uh [dementia]  
and uh we don't know  
i i mean she does not know us anymore  
and whether it's alzheimer's or what it is   nobody really knows  
but it's basically the same  
and her health is not that bad  
although she has gone down downhill drastically since this this last  
well she had been in a retirement community  
and somewhere in the back of her mind she had it that she would live with her children  
well   she we we just did not have the capabilities to to take care of her  
and uh but she she has gone down steadily since she has been in  
and she's been in the nursing home now for oh i would say about three months  
and  
i'm sorry  
she  
no  
as far as she knew she was going to a hospital   and that she could she could handle a hospital  
and we says you know mom if you you know if you get a you get better you've got to have the care the doctor [insisted] on it you know if you get better that you could come out  
okay  
well carolyn the uh one of the main things i'd like like to know is uh how do you feel about the knowing about the environment of a nursing home before you would send someone there to live and so forth  
what do you think would be required and so forth  
oh you knew of the homes then  
you knew of the homes themselves  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
yeah  
well from your point of view how would you feel about actually sending someone that that's you know means something to you to one of those homes  
i realize that you indicated you wanted to check out as much as you can about it  
and of course that makes sense  
but how do you think they would feel i should say about moving from where they have lived most of their life into a whole new new home situation  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well how do you find that your your personal relationship is with her know that you're both together all the time and you are having to do a lot more for her than normal  
does that does that cause any problems between the two of you  
uh_huh  
is she  
it's hard to accept the fact that you're unable to pursue life at the level that you did before  
isn't it  
yeah  
it is different  
i had that almost similar situation  
my mother lives in an apartment with my sister  
and uh so i except for the three or four months this summer  
that's the only time i ever spent with my mother  
and of course since i see her only once or twice a year i was just thrilled   to have her here with me  
and i spent every minute i could to be with her and uh cooking foods for her you know just to make her her life as though she were on vacation  
but somehow another it that doesn't work between my mom and my sister  
and they they find they they are  
in speaking they  
i don't know  
my mother feels uncomfortable around my sister  
and my sister's uncomfortable because her mother's there  
and i guess it's just because they're there all the time  
so it's it puts has put pressure on both of them from that point of view  
so that's that's kind of bad news  
and by the same token my wife's mother is now moved into a nursing home  
and after all she has been a farmer's wife for sixty years  
and now all of a sudden she's had to move off of her farm into another home where the environment is totally different  
she's relatively happy  
but she doesn't like the food  
and when she complains about the food   then they kind of get angry with her  
so that's another one of those things you have to solve  
yeah  
after all their their life is so totally different  
because in those early days the food they had to make it from scratch so to speak  
i mean you raised your own chickens  
and you killed your own [hogs] i suppose  
and then they   they had to store the meat in uh  
i don't want to say [barns]  
but they had regular little places they they would hang it you know   to cure it and so forth  
and and now all of a sudden it uh comes in differently  
it tastes differently  

well  
uh i'll tell you  
i i watched what went on um with the twenty twenty show i don't know if you saw that a few days ago that that talked about nursing homes  
and actually they specifically talked about some in the area where i am here in texas  
and  
pardon  
well i  
no  
i'm not familiar with those homes per se  
but um they were in the area where i live   uh  
and it was really [revealing] to see some of the you know the things that go on i guess in some of these homes  
so i would definitely you know want to really check things out and uh go  
i guess that the big thing would be once you got someone in a home like that to to make sure that you went daily you know   and made sure that they were cared for  
and  
uh_huh  
well actually i have that kind of situation because my mother lives with me  
and she's   eighty seven  
and uh from the time that we were tiny she said you know i want you to promise that you'll never put me in a rest home  
so i know how she feels about it  
you know if i uh   if i ever had to put her there i think uh it would be probably when i just could not handle it any more you know if i   she got to the point where she was totally bedridden and and i mean i just didn't have the skills or the strength to lift her or whatever it needed  
i think that would be the  
uh i wouldn't say any more than usual  
i think it's very hard for her um to be waited upon so to speak  
i mean i think it's hard for her to have that role of not being able to do as much as she used to  
yeah  
i think that's very true  
um on the other hand it takes on almost a a switch of a mother child relationship  
uh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's got to be a big adjustment for someone that's as you say lived on a farm for sixty years  
and then go to something like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
well  
well yes  
i do  
uh this is a a question that hit pretty close to home  
i had to go through this with my dad about four years ago  
he was his health was failing  
and uh he was adamant about two things  
one was that i take care of my mother  
and two that he not be put into a home  
and we talked uh about some length  
and i respected his wishes  
he uh stayed at home as long as he could  
and then uh he died in a hospital  
but um i think that my position is that uh you need to find one that you can really have confidence that they are taking care of the of the uh of their clients  
and um because i've heard about the many abuses and because he had heard of so many abuses he just didn't want that  
how about you  
yeah  
almost thirty all over thirty percent isn't it  
uh_huh  
they're captive  
uh we had a at one stage we had care somewhat like like what you're talking about  
we had the visiting nurses program  
and they sent somebody in  
and it it was a a nominal charge that this uh it started out that the lady would come in i think three times a week and eventually got up to the point where they were coming by every day  
they would try to get him to exercise  
they would try to uh you know  
they would check him over to to you know the basic checks  
try to get him to talk and be motivated  
and uh that's what we went through  
uh up to a point things seemed to be working  
and then uh i think he he became discouraged  
and they did not know how to take care of that  
and then um at that point i think it's mostly a psychological problem  
and uh but yes  
i agree there's a lot of options  
there could be a lot of options  
i think it's time that uh we decide to do something about it  
um  
i suppose at one time the church would fulfill this need  
yeah  
the church or [synagogue] whatever   because typically these were close knit groups at one time  
but in today's large metropolitan areas or even in most even even the rural areas now people are not quite as close as they once were  
uh the mobility factor the factor that uh-oh we're living longer and people are less trusting all these things tend to destroy this type of system  
but i agree with you  
there might be some possibilities there  
although dealing with [geriatrics] is something a lot of young people just aren't emotionally prepared to do  
i think they would have to have some training  
do you have uh some strong feelings one way or the other about about the care of the elderly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
well my graduate work is in speech pathology  
and uh so so uh i've thought about this more than once uh you know dealing with  
uh you know i'm concerned we're going to have a geriatric uh population in in twenty years it's going to be you know phenomenal  
yeah  
yeah  
uh and um but i have been amazed  
and and in talking with uh some of my fellow students it looks as though um nursing homes are not going to be the only option any more  
and uh in twenty years uh where a lot of students are hoping uh to work as an in the home type uh uh approach where where the uh where there's you know the speech therapist or whether it's a nursing specialist or someone plans to uh work out of a family's home and take the responsibility away from the family but yet allow the the loved one to stay you know at home   with the family members  
uh it's it's difficult for many families especially in the case of uh of alzheimer's and and uh some of the more [degenerative] diseases to uh say uh uh leave them to have them at home because then the family becomes completely uh  
exactly  
yeah  
and and did did you experience that with your with your father or not  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
definitely  
you know one of the other subjects on the switchboard and this is one that i've been thinking applies here uh where where uh young young kids uh graduating from high school whether they should do a community service type work  
this would be an excellent example of some where uh some place where um the community could be more involved you know more than just leaving it only to professionals  
there is a lot the community the community can do to uh [enhance] the or or [assist] the lives of those who are keeping a loved one at home  
possibly before  
i don't know now  
uh_huh  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
i agree  
that's a that's a good point  
well i was just wondering if you had had any experience with um the care of the elderly  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well that's nice  
no  
it's really sad  
it's really a sad situation  
and uh i think a lot of people struggle with  
i   i guess the problem is that the spouse of whoever you know the parent is   doesn't always want the in law living in the house  
is that right  
well that's really sad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
well i know when the i remember being a child  
and my grandmother had had several strokes and things and that we had my parents tried to keep her in the house  
and they did for a long time i couldn't   tell you how long until she got uh where she had to have complete care  
and so   they couldn't you know keep her in the house anymore  
and it was really hard on everyone  
she had to have you know twenty four hour a day care  
and i don't remember much about it except that there was a nursing home at that time   just a block or two from our house  
and that um they put her there  
and we all went just constantly until she died  
but it was very hard on everyone to see you know grandmother be like that  
and i don't know that you know i don't being so young i don't remember why   you know what was why she had to go there  
uh_huh  
well i do remember that she was you know totally [incapable] of taking care of herself in any way  
and that that they couldn't they found that they could not   you know give her the [hygienic] care and everything that she needed  
no  
but like you say there is a tendency for people to be abandoned though you know   in the nursing home  
i do remember the other patients there uh being real excited when we came to see our own grandmother because they got some interaction with someone  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and i guess that's hard on people to give give up their lives  
if they're busy they don't you know  
it's easy to abandon people because we do have the nursing homes i guess  
if you can afford them  
but anyway well i'm   glad it worked out good for your family  
yes  
i have  
in fact uh just a little over just a little less than a year ago uh my mother went to be with the lord  
and we cared for her the last oh seventeen months of her life here in the at home   aside from uh having to uh take her to the hospital  
and uh you know those times well she was there in the the regular hospital  
and then she was diagnosed having [inoperable] type of cancer  
and so the doctor elected to have her uh finish out uh in the hospice program  
and uh i as far as i'm concerned that is far and above any nursing home because uh she's around her own you know the the elderly parent in question is around their own family  
the uh hospice program provides a hospital type bed well it is a hospital bed and all the [oxygen]   stuff and a uh and a visiting nurse at least every other day et cetera et cetera et cetera  
and it's all taken care of by by uh medicare uh  
and uh it it's it's really neat uh  
and i you know i wouldn't i wouldn't [banish] uh my old loved one to a to a warehouse  
and that's that's what i basically uh view a nursing home as a warehouse  
so that's  
pardon me  
uh_huh  

oh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i know  
but uh in this case uh spouse and i uh are uh we're are are uh united in this area because   i guess her father her grandfather and grandmother both lived with uh her parents uh their golden years too  
so   this isn't like uh uh just one one uh instance  
in fact uh her uh uh experiences were were [invaluable]   to me  
uh in fact i don't know if i could have uh held up uh you know without my wife uh helping in this   this in this case  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
well maybe well as as you say the care of of grandmother or was was just such that such mom and dad couldn't handle it  
oh boy  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well then then there's almost then there's almost no no uh uh choice left to her then  
uh_huh  
right  
in fact just uh just uh sit and chat with them for five minutes and and be interested in what they have to say   regardless of what it is  
uh_huh  
right  
and then then  
oh yeah  
it did  
and i was just i just praised the lord that that we were able to uh have uh uh  
hello  
hi  
my name is [dolphene]  
i live in texas  
okay  
i work for t i  
do do you also  
okay  
oh okay  
uh you ready to begin  
oh okay  
okay  
yes  
well i don't think that uh any of my relatives would really like to go there  
i i believe if i am in a position uh like when my mother gets to a point where she needs special care that i will be able to just bring her into my home   and my father also and uh or have someone go into their home you know and uh and look after them  
that way  
uh_huh  
right  
it's basically it's more how they feel about it  
and it is like they feel they are uh the way my mother would put it like somebody had thrown them away   you know  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and another thing to think about uh on the positive side of the nursing homes here  
i use to work in one of the offices in a nursing home  
and i got to see a lot of the things that they did  
they uh they had a lot of crafts    
and they had a lot of games  
and uh they get together and just do they they do all sorts of things  
and then there  
some some of the uh the people that are in there are real you know very nice and friendly to everybody  
and uh then there are others that are  
uh it is just a job  
and they just you know   want to go in and do what they have to do and get out go home  
uh the the attitude of the staff as you said is really   very very important  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well it is like the one that i worked in uh you would see some of them just like in [wheelchairs] all day  
they would just roll themselves around all over the place  
and   and they would enjoy enjoy themselves with activities  
and then you would see see some of the others that are were like distant from the other group  
and they they just didn't like participate together with the others   because they had some some uh i guess uh slight mental disabilities and things like that  
what what do you call [alzheimer] disease and stuff like that  
and they don't don't uh they weren't really together with the rest of them when they got together for such activities  
hello  
hi  
my name is pat johnson  
and i live in texas too  
no  
no  
i live in dallas  
i work for the dallas school system  
we might as well  
i understand we are doing care of the elderly right  
and how do you feel about putting someone in the nursing home  
uh_huh  
yes  
i would find it very difficult uh to uh place my father or my step mother   uh in a place like that particularly since i know how they feel about it  
yes  
yes  
i do think that there are some significant kinds of things to to look for you know if you are faced with placing someone   in a place like that uh you know aside from the cleanliness and the medical care that is offered   and such  
but attitude of staff makes such a tremendous difference  
and i have a a friend who is partly [paralyzed] and is in a nursing home   and has no family who you know could care for her  
and uh i know that the cheerful pleasant people who treat her [kindly] make all the difference in the world in how she feels about uh her situation  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it would matter too uh kinds of uh disabilities that the nursing home accepts   because there are some uh who poor things you know don't have uh any real grasp on reality any longer  
and they may be ambulatory  
but they tend to behave like children small children  
and that would be very difficult i think for an adult who wasn't in that situation to to have to deal with on a daily basis  
uh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
[alzheimer]  
yes  
yes  
and that can  
okay  
well why don't you start cause it said i was suppose to ask you what do you  
yes  
i do  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
my mother in law finally  
they had to make a family decision  
there's seven children in my husband's family  
and fortunately four of them live in the same home town  
and she has alzheimer's  
it was getting where she was getting dangerous i mean   letting strangers in and things like this  
but they were very fortunate  
it's a small town  
and she happens to room with one of the doctor's mother's  
and   then she's got a lot of family there and that go and see her all of the time  
but she really doesn't  
nobody thought she would adjust  
but she has adjusted beautifully  
but then i am also facing my father who is very sick  
and my mother and father [reside] in colorado  
she's been taking care of him  
i don't know how much longer this can last  
and at that point because he requires round the clock  
he can't do anything without her  
he doesn't know when to take his medicine  
and it's really sad  
and i have thought if something would happen to my mother for uh  
my brother's are not interested in helping me  
so i would have to move him down here  
that way  
i want to see the nursing home if i have to put him into one  
you know where i can go see it  
i i'd be very uncomfortable with him being in colorado  
and  
yes  
and some of them are limited care too where people can do uh  
like they have apartment styles  
but that wouldn't work for him  
i think he is beyond that  
where if you need help you can get it  
but basically people kind of have a small apartment  
and doctor's are available if they need them  
and allows  
yeah  
yeah  
well the only problem with these are that they are very expensive  
of course i guess all nursing homes there is  
but  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i uh  
yeah  
and i think a lot of people who do it now  
in colorado it's interesting  
i talked to my mother  
they allow you sixty five thousand dollars and your car and your home  
and my mother could make it on that  
what she probably would do is [disburse] the money to me  
and then i would send it back to her  
so that's what would happen  
yeah  
it's unfortunate  
right  
yeah  
it's frightening  
and i guess uh i don't know how old you are  
i'm forty six  
you know we're the generation moving into this  
and i don't know how our kids are going to take care of us   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
i also see on my generation a squeeze between looking to having to help my parents and still having to help my son because things are so rough out there job wise  
and he's still living at home  
and i don't know how he is ever going to get on his own the way things are  
and so it's kind of  
you feel squeezed in the middle of having both generations  
but it something will have to change as more and more of us get older  
uh luckily if we could be like your grandmother i uh you know i would love to live to a hundred and two if i were okay  
but   you see these people in their seventies  
yeah  
most aren't  
that's the problem  
that's incredible  
do you have any elderly relatives currently in an uh nursing home now  
do you  
i have a grandmother  
she's a hundred and two  
she'll be a hundred and three in august  
and we decide not to put her in a nursing home  
she lives with my mother and my father who also live here in town  
and then my sister takes care of her  
she even though she is a hundred and two she still has all of her faculties  
she still has her snap  
she takes care of her own business  
this is the first year that she has gotten weak and actually has to have a little walker  
but with somebody that needs around the clock care  
i have seen my family age  
i have seen them in the  
she's been there ten years now  
and i have seen them age twenty   in the time and and with the expense and everything  
i i still think it is worth it if you if you had a good nursing home  
and they needed some quality care  
i would   put someone in a nursing home  
uh_huh  
oh well that's good  
oh that is great  
oh why yeah  
i am sure you have got some really good nursing homes around dallas  
uh_huh  
i i   know a lady that lives in a place similar   to that in austin  
and the bad thing about it before you can get any kind of government help you just practically have well you have to be a [pauper]  
it it takes every penny  
they want you to spend every dime you have   before the government will pay for your your care  
and that's the sad part about it  
uh_huh  
i think that's what most people do  
you just have to give it everything away  
i i work at a [brokerage] firm  
and i have seen so many people that just have to gift you know their belongings   as much as they can each year in [anticipation] of having to move to a nursing home  
i can't imagine  
i'm twenty nine  
and everybody in my family has always had  
we don't have any children  
everybody that has has them later in life  
so my my mother and my father are in their late sixties  
so i mean they're not   that far away  
oh i know  
it  
but yeah  
most people aren't  
and that's the bad thing  
i would hate to have lived so long  
she lived by herself  
my grandfather passed away before i was born so she lived by herself up until she was ninety ninety one   and just did everything  
i'm ready  
okay  
well i don't have an elderly person that i could send to a a nursing home or anything  
my both of my parents are dead  
but i did have a friend that was in a [convalescent] home uh like a nursing home  
and i went there very often to visit her and uh made me feel really sad  
if i did have a mother living i don't think i could do that  
i think they would be better off being at home with their family you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i can believe that  
yes  
because most elderly people can't take having a lot of noise and kids running around and things like that  
in a situation like that maybe it would be better  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
see now that's that's that's really a sad situation  
yeah  
really you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
in a case like that you know you more or less think it would be better if she were in a nursing home because you have your family growing up where  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but the cost of these nursing homes are so   you know  
a lot of people can't afford that  
you know so you really have no choice that way if you you know if you're not rich or you know  
uh i know this lady that you know that was a friend of mine  
now her husband was still alive at the time when she was in there you know  
and it was costing him a small fortune to keep her in there  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
then bring her back home at night  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you know just come home for dinner  
and then usually they want to go to bed fairly early anyhow  
you know so that would probably be nice if we could ever get something like that  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
if   if they don't know anybody and they don't know what's going on around them and everything like that well i can see maybe a nursing home would be better you know  
but if they they have their wits about them and everything why it's kind of hard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh my mother always said she hopes she never had to be like that  
and uh luckily i mean she lived by herself  
and then you know one day she had a heart attack  
and she was gone  
so she never did have to go into a nursing home or anything like that  
but there's so many of us kids there was like seven of us that my we wouldn't have probably allowed that to happen anyhow  
you know she could have taken turns living with each one of us you know for a a a period of time because we all don't live in the same city anyhow nor the same state  
so  
uh i i have a couple more that live out here in california  
but then i have a  
why don't you go ahead and start off  
i agree although we're in that situation right now  
we have a an eighty seven year old mother in law living with me right now  
and because of her circumstances she can no longer live independently  
and even moving from her house to our house   has been tremendously [unsettling] for her  
and we have several young children  
and they about drive her crazy  
well we've you know we've struggled a lot with it because again most of the nursing homes i've been in are very depressing to me  
and she's still alert enough that i think she would really know that we were putting her there  
and i think she would really resent it  
and i think that would make it very hard  
but on the other hand i see my wife with  
i guess our youngest one now is five  
and her trying to struggle because her mother really cannot take care of herself  
she needs to be   [bathed] and dressed and a lot of those kinds of   things  
and so the drain on the family  
and when the kids have kids come you know she's always saying you know why do they have to be here  
why can't they send them home  
it's too noisy  
and   she'll say that to the kids' friends  
so it's a hard situation either way i think  
i think that's one of the things we're really wrestling with  
when does it become detrimental to our family to the point that you have to consider that   as opposed to considering her current circumstances  
and  
oh prohibitive  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we need to develop some alternatives like adult day care   that's more readily available you know  
i think if we could send her someplace for the day   and she could be around some elderly people and have some activities would be of more interest to her   and then in the evening have her return and be with the family  
yeah  
but there's not many of those available right now  
and they're very hard to get them into  
and   we tried sending her to a senior citizen center  
but they're really not prepared to cope with her because she's somewhat senile  
and so a lot of the activities that they're engaged in she can't participate in  
but i think it's an issue that you know  
with the [graying] of america we're really going to have to as a as a country figure out how we're going to deal with this  
because it is a difficult situation  
and you know you hate seeing them just sort of send off and not well cared for  
and yet  
and then i think it depends on their physical ability too you know  
if they could be up and doing some things   it might be better than when they're just sort of needing almost constant supervision and care  
yeah  
do you live at all close to each other  
uh so what do you think uh about putting the elderly in a nursing home  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i never thought of that  
yeah  
that's true  
until they get over that hump   of whatever it is they're dealing with  
yes  
they really are  
they don't like to keep them   longer than a week  
yeah  
what do you mean  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
and it depends on how how sick the person is too what you're capable of like if you have a family to take care of you know of your own  
yeah  
uh i would personally like it  
if my parents were to get ill i would like to take care of them at home and if i had the money with some help  
that's not always possible  
but uh to the best of my ability i'd like to do it until it gets impossible  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
but i think nursing homes can be good  
it just depends on what kind they are  
you know you need to check them out ahead of time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that they're  
yeah  
right  
who know what they're doing with that  
yeah  
well my uh grandmother's not really in a nursing home but a retirement home that also has a nursing home sort of attached to it  
and she really liked the idea of of moving there  
she's not ill yet  
but uh she worked there as a volunteer for about ten years  
and then she decided that uh she's eighty five years old that eventually you know she she doesn't want her family taking care of her and being a burden  
she's very independent  
so she's in this nursing home  
it's out in the country  
and uh she really enjoys it right now because she doesn't have to wash dishes or cook  
uh_huh  
right  
some support  
and then there's also uh sort of a wing for those people that do get sick  
and what i like about it and i think she likes about it is that she knows everybody there now  
and then so if she ever does become ill uh it will be like family around her  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  

uh_huh  
no  
she loves it  
she has a great social life  
and she travels  
and uh it's in in the very in the mountains  
and it's beautiful  
and uh i i hope that i have something like that when i get older  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh definitely it's  
right  
okay  
well i think that it it varies on on the individual basis  
uh sometimes it is there is no alternative  
uh you do not have uh uh family available or family that's uh  
you may not even have family that is uh uh in you know who are around  
so sometimes it's not an alternative  
and i think uh but i think also sometimes it can be uh a benefit if it's for a short time  
sometimes in a nursing home  
uh especially if if it's after an [acute] illness  
to get over a  
or to rehab after uh an illness  
sometimes you know sometimes the nursing homes are good for uh just short periods of time  
uh_huh  
because too often the [acute] hospitals will are sending them out much faster than what they're   really able to  
so   so there is some good to it  
uh sometimes too it's used as a dumb job  
you know the   well the families do not necessarily uh know what to do with them  
and they don't want to take the responsibility  
so they will put them in a nursing home  
so you see uh  
there's both sides to it too  
what do you think  
yeah  
that's true  
i think that's also where you're going to have a lot of people who are going to  
it's there's not a choice it's   because it's not economically feasible even to   put them in a nursing home  
so that that option sometimes is not available if they do not have the uh either medicare or insurance to cover it  
so  
yeah  
and then there's also some that are set up for specialties  
uh i know some  
unfortunately some elderly have to go to or have i guess it's alzheimer's or where   they wonder or or uh confused or have some mental problem  
and you need a special nursing home for that  
you need one that has a unit that's locked where they are not able to get out and roam around  
and you need people who are trained for that type   of problem  
yeah  
so so there's different types of nursing homes i think  
uh_huh  
gives her a little bit of her own independence  
but she still has uh a security there  
that's right  
and i   i've seen some of them like that too  
and also they have a lot of uh activities going on for the ones   who are more active  
so it's not sort of like uh uh   a sick place  
yeah  
i i think i think the uh   i think that the decision that needs to be made though on nursing home has to be a joint one between the uh elderly   uh person who's going in and the family that's going to be uh effected by it  
and uh you know sometimes it can those those choices can be made in advance  
and sometimes   the choices because of the nature of the illness when they're  
okay  
uh before a couple of years ago i had a a very narrow view of of nursing homes  
and it was uh more like a funeral home  
i always [joked] around about it being a funeral home and not really a nursing home  
and uh then i had to do some volunteer work here in tyler texas  
and i went to one  
and it just had a very good activities director  
everyone was cheerful  
and now i don't have such a bad view of nursing homes anymore  
but i i certainly wouldn't want to send my parent unless it was an absolute last resort  
uh i have a sister that is in nursing school  
and she's real interested in [geriatrics]  
yeah  
so uh she she's real interested in uh what ann richards has been doing  
she's ann richards is really cracking down on uh the nursing homes  
and i don't know you wouldn't know anything about a texas governor  
okay  
ann richards is our governor in texas  
and she's really cracking down on restrictions and what goes on in nursing homes  
and uh my sister's real interested in that and and getting into the to that side of nursing  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
it sure is  
and some of the really nice ones that really take care of their people are so expensive because   cause they can afford to hire the people that are really going to care for the older  
oh yeah  
right  
my grandfather passed away several years ago  
i was much younger  
but uh he was in the nursing home the last several years of his life  
and someone visited him every day  
my grandmother did  
but uh if she couldn't someone visited him every day  
it was in a very small town nursing home  
and uh people didn't get paid much there at all  
they didn't care about what went on  
they would let a let a patient get a lot of bed [sores]  
and uh the the people living in the nursing home would have all kinds of needs that wouldn't get met because they were just old people  
and then the nurses and doctors really didn't put any for forth any loving care for them  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and nurses get so worn down  
right  
oh sure  
and they feel   they feel pretty [helpless]  
is it uh like a retirement center  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how's he handling that  
uh_huh  
ooh  
oh sure  
there wasn't anything like that that you could do in florida  
well that sounds good  
i've heard the name  
and that's about all it goes  
yeah  
that's one problem with the the nursing home environment  
it the elderly even out of the nursing home are very open to abuse  
uh you know they don't always have their full wits about them  
they're not completely up on what should be going on or what's not going on  
and it can be pretty sad  
i've got a had a grandmother who had a stroke  
and she was in a nursing home for four or five years before she died  
and you know it's the type of thing that she was living down in florida  
my families was up in maryland  
and the other part of her family was up in uh new york state  
and you know it was very difficult for either them or my grandfather to take care of her since she was uh you know could not do very much for herself after the stroke  
and you know the nursing home was the you know best facility to put her in   you know besides moving her up which is not a practical solution since both my parents work  
and both my uh aunts and uncle work   which means it's you know very difficult for  
you essentially need to have someone taking care of the person full time  
and you know there's also a lot of medical problems that can't always be completely handled in the home   which makes it you know  
it's a necessary evil i think  
yeah  
yeah  
and you know even there you have to watch out for you know  
you get one person who's a little bit dishonest working in there  
and you know the elderly sometimes have a lot of jewelry   and other stuff that just very easily tends to disappear in the nursing homes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
either that or they're just so [understaffed] that they can't afford   to put in the uh care that they need   cause it's you know  
an elderly person can you know  
it's like a [newborn] baby  
you need   to have twenty four hour care   uh answering all the needs cause they can't do much for themselves at certain points  
uh_huh  
and you know there's a lot of number of  
the elderly are very you know complaining because they remember the way that things used to be   and remember being able to do things for themselves which you know they no longer can  
and it very very hard for them to accept that  
we just uh moved my grandfather into not a nursing home but you know a [transitional] type facility  
more of a retirement home  
he's got his own efficiency apartment  
and they provide one meal a day  
and you know the rest of the housekeeping and other meals a day are up to him  
but they do have you know group activities going on  
uh he'd much rather be living alone in his apartment down in florida  
uh you know to move into that facility we moved him from florida up to maryland  
and   it's it's a bit of a shock to the system weather wise if nothing else  
well there was stuff like that in florida  
but  
well i don't know  
my grandfather is ninety two years old  
and he is still living by himself  
my grandmother died a couple of years ago  
but he doesn't want to to move away  
he lives in a little [farmhouse] on a farm  
and he recently had to have an operation  
but he just really doesn't want to go to a nursing home  
well he was until this operation  
he has arthritis  
and now i don't really think he's doing that well  
and my a lot of my aunts and uncles live near him  
and i have one aunt that really looks after him a lot  
but uh my great grandfather was put in a nursing home when he was a hundred and three  
and uh died six weeks after they put him in the home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but i just don't think that nursing homes really do a very good job  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but i don't i mean  
at least i mean i think some nursing homes do that  
but i think a lot of nursing homes really uh are guilty of neglect  
uh_huh  
well julie uh are you in a situation where you'd soon need to deal with uh special care for elderly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is he able to uh still do everything himself pretty well  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i'm sure that kind of thing would influence your grandfather's feelings  
because uh i you know i think for a lot of people it really is the decision of do they still have some of their life left  
and   and for for i'm sure a lot of people going into a nursing home it's like saying my life is over  
and i'm just here for the rest of the stay  
and so i you know i guess most of the time when i think about somebody going into a nursing home it's more a case of where they are not able to look after their day to day needs  
yeah  
they have can look after a lot of things  
but there's some of the day to day needs that they just are not able to deal with physically anymore  
uh i know my none of my grandparents were in a nursing home  
they generally were able to have someone care for them at home  
and they died  
but they were all goodness younger than your grandparents  
like they were in their eighties that type of thing  
uh but i did uh you know i guess  
uh when i think nursing home i do think of people that are not able to do take care of themselves physically uh  
and that's that's difficult part  
because i think what they often get used as is uh almost like a very high level or long term care for uh similar to a hospital  
uh i know like here in [saskatchewan] we have our hospital care the care actually for the older people graded in level in four levels  
and a level four type of care would be someone that really requires long term hospital care generally are not able to look after themselves to very to a very great extent physically  
often times they even have mental difficulty with [senility] or alzheimer's disease or those or or physical and mental handicaps uh you know where they really require twenty four hour supervision of some kind even though   it may be minimal  
and uh but i think that it can be helpful in that uh it gets people the level of physical care they need uh  
yeah  
i and i think it happens more in areas where it's uh i guess uh a broad social medical system where uh you know there's government medical care and that kind of thing  
if it's the lot where it's funded by the individuals  
and and i guess that's sort of my lack of understanding  
i think that a majority of the places in the u s uh you know there is some government aid available  
but the majority of it is to the availability of the individual to pay  
and uh if you're not able to look after yourself then you have to rely  
that's right  
that's right  
you know what what uh what do you think is important  
if you were  
uh i don't know how how old you are  
but if you had if you had uh parents say or or or grandparents whatever it is uh who were ready   who who you thought might benefit from a nursing home what do you think you would look for  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
well my uh uh my wife's grandmother   is in a nursing home in uh minnesota  
and we go there uh once a year  
we see we tend to see her there cause we're in boston  
so we're pretty far away  
when we visit minnesota though we go to see her  
and it seems uh  
i mean the the environment there i don't know too much about it  
but it it seems nice enough  
uh it it's hard  
at least half of the residents i would say are not not mentally sound  
so it's hard to tell how much of that rubs off on those who are struggling to to retain uh [clarity] say uh you know  
yeah  
well i i i don't know  
we we also my wife and i uh uh volunteer to go to a uh nursing home that's just a mile from our house  
we uh she goes more often than i  
we used to go once a month once every two months to visit some of the patients there  
and we'd take we have a two year old son  
and so we sometimes we'd take him with us  
and uh there i would say it's the same thing  
it's it's a nice uh relatively nice environment  
but again um it must be depressing for the people who who are who are just essentially not able to take care of themselves in their own house but but certainly uh certainly have are have [retained] all of their uh mental skills and so on  
it's must be depressing to to walk walk the halls and see and see all these other people who really don't know where they are  
i think yeah  
i think they're relatively respectful yeah and and concerned that in as much as they can be  
i i think sometimes you know i've noticed uh people asking for uh some of the patients asking for things uh just [repetitively]   and but things that are not reasonable  
and so   at some level the the the uh  
i'm sure that the that the uh the staff learn what's normal for this person  
and so it looks to me like maybe their not catering to this person's needs is really because this person is just you know is just in a state where they don't really need what they think they need you know  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i'll tell you one thing though that'll that that i i saw that was really nice  
we saw a husband and wife  
we used to see a husband and wife in there uh together  
and they were in the same room which not all husband and wives were  
but these two were  
and when you walked into their room they had brought all their furniture from their house  
and so  
yeah  
you walked in there  
and it didn't look like uh you know how you you walk into some rooms  
and there's it's completely generic  
there's nothing maybe a picture or two that belongs to that person  
and that's it  
but this room on the other hand you know they got rid of all of the sort of standard issue beds and [dressers] and this and that  
and they had all their stuff from their house  
and it looked like uh it must have been  
it was nicer to walk in there and to talk to them  
and it must also give them a sense of uh uh security and and uh and and you know uh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
huh  
temporary  
i  
that that's that's new to me  
i  
right  
right  
bye  
so we're uh our [discussion's] about uh the care of the elderly  
uh well i actually my dad's my dad's almost ninety  
and   he lives by himself  
and he's in good shape  
uh but uh some friends of mine have uh gone through this  
i think i'd look for a home where they got a lot of attention and uh where they did some things to try to keep them um mentally alive   and where there was uh caring and [compassionate] where there were caring and [compassionate] people uh operating it  
do   you have any experience with this yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
from the lack of stimulation you mean  
do you think that in the case of the one that you've actually had some experience with that the people who operate it seem to have what you'd perceive of as genuine concern  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it it's possible  
i was thinking also that there'd be there could be a fair burn out factor   um in just having to respond to people's needs where the needs are sometimes depending on the person not going to be what we would perceive of as rational need  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so it   gives them a sense of identity  
yeah  
i i think part of what you're saying matches what i have read  
i used to initially think that the only people who went into such [residences] were people who uh were adequately [deficient] in their abilities uh   physical or mental that they couldn't take care of themselves  
but i also know a couple of people whose parents have gone into such things because i think they provide um a lot of social activities  
uh the one of my friend's parents who went in because she had largely lost her abilities  
and she was in there for awhile when they were away on vacation  
uh and  
well i think it i think it was sort of on the grounds that they were considering whether she would live there  
and i feel like the whole vocabulary of this is very loaded if you think of words like like put her in there  
and there there's so much  
do you know anyone that uh is is in a nursing home or has ever been in one  
uh_huh  
well i'm trying to think  
my uh uh wife's grandmother had alzheimer's  
and they were going to put her into a a nursing home  
and uh they when they put her in she had all kinds of trouble  
and the nursing home made them come and take her back because she was being a a you know a a [nuisance] or worse than a [nuisance]  
i mean   she sort of went you know bananas  
and they couldn't couldn't deal with her  
so i guess you need to uh know whether it's a you know a no deposit no return kind of thing whether  
yeah  
right  
right  
my grandmother actually was in a a nursing home that uh  
there was a retirement hotel and then a uh  
there was some sort of full time care place that was also associated with it  
so for uh the first few years she had her own apartment and you know made her own meals sometimes but could could also go and eat someplace else  
and then uh as she became less able to take care of herself then she moved into this other part that was able to uh provide full time care  
and uh she didn't have to do anything anymore  
but my experience has been that most people that move into nursing homes die very quickly  
and that's  
i don't know whether that's because they you know sort of give up hope once they get in there or what the the reason is  
but i think the average length of time that somebody lives in a nursing home is only like six months or something  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
if if you can take care of yourself at all or have someone that can take care of you then you stay where you are  
then you only go there as a last resort  
or people send you there as a last resort  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
i guess  
right  
when you need it you need it   i guess  
right  
yeah  
sure  
and you probably if it were you you probably wouldn't want someone choosing a place for you to live based on lowest price  
yeah  
well maybe that's the purpose of the nursing home is to have them go someplace where they can see that it's not worth continuing  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i've known quite a few people that have uh gone to retirement communities  
i don't know if they have them back there  
but here in california and in  
no  
but i my grandparents were looking into it before  
so i know what they've said  
uh_huh  
oh they thought it was too much of a bother  
right  
if they're equipped too to handle the kind of patients you're going to have   you know put in there too  
because i know my grandparents wanted to have some independence still  
they wanted some place they can go and have their meals and a nurse on staff just in case they needed her  
but they wanted to be independent as well   have their own room  
uh_huh  
well a lot of it's probably to do with the fact that people go to it because they need help  
they need health care  
so they're already ill before they go  
that's probably a large factor  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's what my grandparents  
it was just so that the rest of the relatives would have peace of mind knowing that if anything happened there was somebody there for them  
so that was their thinking  
somebody who would know what to do in the event of an emergency  
and also so they could find someplace that they enjoyed while they still had choices to make   so they wouldn't be stuck going into just whatever nursing home was available at the time  
i guess that's a problem too for people wait lists and all  
that uh  
you can't always get in when you want too  
and of course you can't just sit around and wait  
yeah  
and the money is also another issue how you're going to pay for it  
at that stage of life you only have so much money left  
and i guess it's not exactly fair for the younger family members to have to put it in their savings  
i mean it is kind of fair  
but it's also not fair because they have their own children to raise  
so it's another problem  
right  
right  
so it it's just so complicated anymore i think  
people [outlive] their savings  
and with medicine being the way it is you're [extending] life where sometimes the quality of living has gone down  
and they're not necessarily enjoying life anymore  
it's just a shame that's the way it has to be  
i think   the retirement home [idea's] a nice idea to go and find older people and with similar interests and someplace to stay  
and cause like if your spouse died all alone it'd be nice to go someplace with people similar to you   to have friends  
okay  
well uh just briefly  
uh i worked in a nursing home  
so i kind of know from way back uh how things used to be run  
and i think there has been definite changes of nursing homes  
but i think uh if i had to personally put one of my parents in a nursing home they would have to be pretty bad off to where i couldn't take care of them at all  
it would be something that you know i would certainly  
if they're forgetting things or whatever i'd prefer to have them at home or have them in what they call now home care   where somebody comes in  
and they cook meals  
and they clean their house for them  
that kind of thing  
so they still have their own independence  
and not reliable you know  
they don't have to be in a nursing home situation  
but uh i don't think  
the nursing homes when i was working in them were very much [understaffed] very much uh in need of good personnel uh  
i think the patients weren't given the quality of care that  
i wouldn't have you know  
i look at it and say thank god  
i got out of that kind of situation  
but   they they were not given the time  
and they were not given the money basically to staff appropriately people to help  
and i can remember lifting a patient all by myself simply because there was not another person to help  
it's either leave the patient in bed all day long or get them up  
and i would have preferred to get them up than to leave them in bed all day  
but uh uh so i think nursing homes are have changed  
i'm not quite sure  
but hopefully they have  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
i i think that's that can happen  
and i think in the nursing home that i worked for  
i wasn't quite sure of it  
but i'm sure that some of the patients were uh given medication to keep them in uh quiet  
and and  
yeah  
yeah  
and they would just lay all day long  
and uh the ones  
they also put mentally ill patients in the same  
they were not on the same you know ward  
but they they were in the same nursing home  
so that these mentally ill patients could walk into where the other uh older people that were in there for reasons of uh you know age uh  
the mentally ill patients could walk right in into the rooms or do whatever they wanted to basically  
because if you weren't there to watch them and keep them in their own wing they could they had freedom to just walk around  
and a lot of them were i think there was a couple that were [schizophrenic]  
and i remember one time watching one of the uh [schizophrenic] patients actually go out on i don't know what they call it a binge or whatever you want to say it  
she grabbed a hold of this  
and it was kind of funny when i looked back at it  
but i mean i remember the patient getting very upset  
that woman actually pulled uh the other person's hair  
i mean she just came up right behind him and pulled his hair you know  
and it was a guy that was just really upset  
i mean he said what the hell are you think you're doing you know  
and i laughed at it then  
but then i'm thinking god you know  
if i had to put my parents in that nursing home i wouldn't want them there  
so   i think there's laws now that kind of protect that nursing homes either have to keep the mentally ill totally away from these people and not in the same type of facilities  
even though they're aging mentally ill they are still mentally ill  
and a lot of these older people have their you know they're not insane or anything like that  
they don't have these tendencies to to [lash] out  
but seeing that kind of made me think twice about  
jeez  
i wouldn't put my mother father in that nursing home at all  
a small town  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know  
i don't know  
i i kind of look at it this way  
i think if you have a big city area i think there's more people to keep watch on it  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
and you have more competition  
and i think nursing homes have to be better than when there's one nursing home for a whole community  
and this is back in nineteen seventy seven that i worked there  
and i look back at it and say jeez you know  
it would have to be awfully bad for me to put my parents in there  
but my grandmother uh later on got cancer and uh could no longer  
well actually she  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess i haven't had that much experience  
i've only seen like my great grandparents in a nursing home  
but   i have an aunt who lived on her own until she was well in her nineties  
and then she she got sick  
and she ended up in nursing home  
and my parents went to visit her  
and it got to the point where the it seemed like the nursing home didn't want to deal her anymore  
and so they gave her drugs to keep her asleep  
nice [sedative] state  
uh_huh  
yeah  
to be violent  
was this in a big town or a little town  
oh really  
because it seems like the small town nursing homes there's a   lot more personal attention  
uh_huh  
you have   more options  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh i haven't been in this situation yet  
you know my my parents are not quite at that age yet  
so i haven't  
no  
so i haven't uh really been in that situation although they are thinking about my grandmother  
but uh   but that's really about it  
how about you  
have you been in that situation yet  
uh_huh  
did it really  
yeah  
oh no  
that's sad  
yeah  
oh okay  
i'm sure they were  
yeah  
uh_huh  
ah  
yeah  
oh  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i'm sure it's it's expensive  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
my my grandmother is not in a nursing home  
but she's in a  
oh they're like uh they're apartments for senior citizens  
and she loves that because they arrange activities for them all day long  
and then they have uh where the bus picks them up and takes them where they need to go  
and she she she really does love that  
but she's just concerned about in the future you know   that she she knows it's not going to be like that all the time  
and she's just wondering well   what's going to happen to me  
and and i  
you know it's i guess it's so normal to start to wonder about that even if she doesn't need that  
but   you know  
she's kind of asking questions about what well what's going to happen this can't last forever  
and so  
yeah  
yeah  
she can  
but i i think it is also cafeteria style because i i really i i i doubt if she rarely cooks for herself   so uh  
because i i remember her in her letters telling me she'll go downstairs for coffee or something to eat  
so i'm assuming it's something like that too  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and she lives by herself too  
she seems to like it  
and uh my husband's grandmother is  
well she lives she lives in a house on her own  
and she doesn't really need the care or anything like that  
but she has her own home  
and she's doing really well  
i'm really proud of her  
she's doing really well  
so we haven't had to do anything  
but then again she has a lot of support  
so   i mean she's got her mother in town too and things like that  
so   hopefully we won't need to go that route  
yeah  
they're not quite elderly huh  
uh_huh  
uh not for my parents  
but i i was around uh two sets of grandparents uh quite a bit  
we we put one i put one grandfather in a rest home  
and that killed him  
well yeah  
kind of  
well there was some other things involved  
but it  
before he was really active  
and the  
there was some  
you know he lost his drivers license  
and i couldn't get around and wasn't able to do some things  
and so we ended up just having to put him in a rest home  
and he just kind of became a vegetable and died  
so   but that was a long time ago  
that was uh back in like seventy three  
so uh i think the way they did things were a lot different back then  
and uh my grandmother his his wife   uh we also put her in a rest home  
she was in a rest home  
and then she was back out because she didn't really need to be there and uh had a physical had a good physical therapist at that place  
and   they worked with her and got her walking and got her kind of taking care of herself  
and so   she was able to come back home  
and   then she had to go back in a couple of times  
but mostly it was just because she kind of gave up  
and they got her going again  
so i guess as far as looking  
i said as what you're looking for i think you need to look for an active uh an interactive staff   somebody who is willing to work with uh you know work with a patients and do   do things with them and treat them treat like they're  
it it is  
it is expensive  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
when she can't take care of herself  
uh_huh  
now  
uh_huh  
does she have a  
is it like a kitchenette type apartment where she can fix her own food if she wants to  
or she can go down to the cafeteria  
uh_huh  
in fact i  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i really like that concept  
they've they have a few of those well quite a few of those places like that here in utah  
and you know couples can  
you know husband and wife can can live there too or or whatever  
i  
and and then and yet they have their their friendships and relationships and the you know of getting together and eating together and all of that  
i i think it really takes uh you know looking more at the people than even really the facilities  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
well i i think that that's the thing that's a little bit scary you know a little bit tough about putting them in a rest home is it's it's almost like  
that you know they say putting them out to pasture  
and some some of the people that were there with my grandmother were really active  
they they wanted to do things  
they didn't you know they didn't want to go down and play bingo or uh you know play with the oranges  
um what is your experience been with
but do you have elderly relatives that live with you or have lived with your parents or something like that
uh_huh
oh gosh
and they gave it to her anyway
we had my grandfather had alzheimer's disease
and my grandmother kept him at home as long as she could
actually my parents and my uncle and aunt who tried to convince them to go into like an old age community
where he could have gotten care
and she could of had help with somebody cleaning and things like that
and she refused she she just didn't want to do it
she felt uh
i don't know maybe too much guilt or something
uh_huh
and so eventually they were forced to put her in one
yeah
well my grand father you know eventually completely lost
control type of things i i mean i don't know if he ever really got violent
but they put him in a nursing home
and actually the problem that they had with him was more with the hospital the the nursing home you know some day he had a fever or something
so they sent him to a hospital which is what they seem to routinely do which i think is ridiculous too
you know because they might not be really be sick
and at the hospital
they um did an [electrocardiogram] and decided that he had a heart problem
and uh you know
you know he was very old he had alzheimer's he had been like a vegetable for a year
and the hospital said oh we have to put in a [pacemaker] and you know wanted to approval for the it and all this sort stuff and eventually you know the whole family is in an uproar discussing it
and some of these
said well yeah
they should do it and others said it's ridiculous this man's you know his body finally wants to die just let him die
and um eventually the at the they said no to the doctor
and they found out
it wasn't even his [electrocardiogram] it
it was some other patient you know by the time he had been sent back to the nursing home and under care there
but
oh
it's horrible
but
sometimes you just can't keep the person at home
they're just you know
oh
i felt went to visit my grandfather one time in the nursing home
and i said never again i said i just can't go
uh_huh
but i had a cousin of mine that was in a different nursing home which was sort of nicer
you know
and until really close to the end
she was able to go out and take walks and things
and they took her outside and in some ways i think it might of even been better or i say cousins like my grandmother's cousin but i had been really close to her
and it's only the thing for her
it might of even been better because she used to live in an area that when she moved down there was mostly elderly people
well not you know it was like a community of apartments that were mostly elderly when she moved there
she might have been like sixty it wasn't you know like ancient
but you know older and then that community for some reason started getting the apartments were fairly low income i guess
and started being bought out by families and things
and she instead of having fewer and fewer friends
and people just she she she used to say to me at when she was ninety two or something at the time
say um you know i just i all my friends have died off
i have nothing to do
i'm bored
you know i walk over to the store
i walk back someone comes and picks me up and brings me to the community
and so when she went to a nursing home in the beginning i think she kind of liked it
she did art work there she did
it was almost a progressive type nursing home
uh_huh
yeah
then you just can't get
better
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm sure
does the medical care in nursing is typically less than in
but
are they supposed to give as much help as you know a
jeez
uh_huh
at the second one oh my
that's
horrible
had they checked into these nursing homes much before they put her in it
or they just sort of
i mean i it's sometimes hard to even get places in there
you're lucky if you get a spot
uh_huh
oh so you probably don't have too much choice
uh_huh
but really it's pitiful
often times i've gone into nursing homes where you know they have like a central area where they take the people to and all
you do is just sort of sit there like
you know almost like they're mentally retarded patients or something
and some of them you know they're just sort of sitting in the wheelchair and sleeping or whatever
and it's it's heart breaking you know
and i i feel like you know what have i moved into and and they're you some of them i think just needs stimulation
yeah
well i've never been to a mental hospital
right
like you expect from the movies of mental hospitals like uh
oh gosh
yeah
because the i mean the poor man too
he could get really cold he could
that's crazy
but i think
they're almost
i mean i can't imagine working in a nursing home like that i'd be there because it must be so
depressing
but you know when i see them
i don't know that i could you know when i think of my parents who fortunately shouldn't be close to getting there yet
but i don't you know i think of having to make the decision as to put them into a place like that or not
it's horrible
i guess i would try and have somebody at the house as long as they were
healthy enough
but sometimes they're not i don't know
are you you know where have the old days gone where people just sort of died of something in their family houses and they're you know people are [stabbed] and it's not just torture uh_huh
uh that's interesting because it's my mother's parents
well actually my father's parents both of them sort of you know they just died of something um
but my grandmother you know in my grandmother's case which is very sad
she fell she came into new york to visit
and she fell at the airport going
down some steps and spent you know six months in the hospital
but it is was still it it it wasn't you know the same as a nursing home type of thing
yeah
no
that was that was horrible
it was
and she never even got to see her family that she came into visit
they
no
they came to the hospital
but i mean she came in
no
no
she came in for a [pleasurable] visit and fell and cracked her [skull] open and that was sort of
it was terrible
but um my
it was really just my grand father i guess
and this one elderly cousin of mine that went into nursing homes
but it's just a scary thought every time i certainly don't want to be like that some day
okay
uh not with my parents although my parents are now in their early seventies
and uh fortunately they have to this point been very physically healthy and very self sufficient
and they really look after themselves
and i think considered what they want done as they get older and may be less able
well the
it's more that they have when they retired
and we are from south dakota
so they retired from the rural farming community into [sioux] falls which is the biggest city in the state
and set themselves up near medical facilities
and i i can not say that i can tell you what they have decided as to okay
because i think some of that is that maybe you think ahead somewhat
but you do not uh book those
facilities
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well have they do they recognize the coming and try to make the decision themselves
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that is one of the options that uh that is so related to the family situation of the children
and uh you know i guess not that it has happened in our case in my family because it well i have seen it in their generation it what you do is first see your parents go through it with their parents
and i would say at this point
um you can say i have been through all that because i have no no grandparents left uh
and it's you see all the different options
and you see that they all can work uh
uh_huh
well if they are uh that's the thing if they are physically able it is a much more pleasant more caring uh situation to be in the home of one of the children
uh the other side of that is that if the children are no where near where the uh parents had spent their life then in a sense you you have no friends at the new place
uh in this that you are unless that you develop new friends and uh the best thing is kind of a combination where uh the at least one of the children if not several are uh uh back in the area where the parents uh had spent their years and then yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
well it's uh it's not an easy choice because it's uh
but it's something that we all face
and we uh
yeah
but the way society changes it makes it so that uh what was acceptable for our parents and their parents may not be as workable for us
it it's certainly a problem as we as people live older of course as long as you can live a healthy life uh the uh the care is is not near the issue it becomes when you start having the physical problems
yes
okay
do you have anybody uh in your family that you ever had to put in a nursing home or
yeah
was that here in texas
right
did did you have to put her in yourself or
i understand understand
well my uh aunt that i kind of grew up with uh was in a nursing home she did have alzheimer's and we had to put her in the nursing home because of that
but uh
this was up in uh milwaukee wisconsin
and uh it was a situation that's probably as good as you're going to get uh it's associated with uh our church
and uh what they do my mother is in is a [terrace] which it's called [terrace] and uh these are condominiums you buy into when you know whenever you know you're sixty or whatever you know whenever you want to buy into this thing
and these are very nice condominium things
and uh the idea is once you are in this program you are taken care of the rest of your life
and they they have a nursing home
if you can't maintain your own apartment or your condominium uh you automatically go into that
and from there
they also have a health care area if you can't you know if you need more intensive care
and uh even the best there is isn't a nice situation with uh like you say when you get to the point where uh well she was ninety four and she was uh in the nursing home
and the health care facility for
i would guess about a year's time
but uh it's a hard decision to make
i tell you it's uh
that's that was really the and that it gets very hard
and on
anybody uh i'd go up there and visit and and she would recognize me
but as soon as i was out down the hall she didn't even know i was there
and uh it's it's sad you know it
yeah
well it's
but what's really hard is the differences of care you know if you aren't fortunate enough to have a situation like with my mother right now she's got terrible arthritis in her knees
and it's probably not real long where she won't be able to you know get along on her own
and she probably you know hopefully it will be a number of years
but she's seventy nine years old
right now
and now she understands that someday you know if she can't handle her apartment that uh you know she'll have to go in the nursing home
but if you have situations where you don't have that kind you know it's
you're confronted with it
and if you look at all the different nursing homes uh that are out there
it it is kind of frightening some of these places uh it's like put them in a [cubbyhole]
and you know they don't they're they're more caretakers kind of it's almost like putting a dog in a kennel you know
some of these places
they stink
and they're it it's a tough decision
and you know if people don't have the resources for uh it's i i don't know about in arizona
but around here
i understand it's it's anywhere from about twenty three hundred to three thousand dollars a month in a a nursing home
right
yeah
well and that's the other thing that helps is that you have a relative a close relative that will look in on them
okay uh
okay
one of the things they said about how you feel about putting an elderly person in a nursing home
um i've had that situation presented to me personally about three years ago when i had to put my place my dad in a nursing home
and um he had alzheimer's and he uh wandered and i had to put him in there for his own safety because i could not i couldn't care for him here any longer
i tried as hard as i could
yes
and uh i had to work
and he would get up in the middle of the night
and he could get out and wander down the street and i was afraid for his safety
um
and so i had to make that decision um
yes
i did
i checked into the facilities the other thing that i did
and i recommend other people to do this same thing
sometimes is to check and with people that have family members in that nursing facility you know see if you can find out who who has a family member there or if you go
and check it stop and ask somebody when you see them you know
do you have you know what relative
do you have here
uh how is the care are you satisfied um
it took me quite a while to choose
yes
very much so
there was a large range of costs uh and the cost didn't necessarily reflect the care the cost some of the costs went for other amenities for those that were uh up and ambulatory like really nice dining rooms and you know uh things like that
but that was for one segment but then the other segment that needed full nursing care
i didn't feel i got the benefit of the extra cost
uh_huh
right
and you would want the maybe the uh extra amenities you know like the very nice dining room and you know the freedom of the grounds to be nice
so they can walk out there
and you know activities she would
uh organized activities and things like that
right
yeah
each state is different
but uh here in texas
there are certain you know requirements
some of them
yes
there was a waiting list
um in fact i had one when i first started i went through a series of see i had my dad in two different nursing homes when i first started he was in one that wasn't total total patient care
but where he could be watched
but he had the freedom to wander around and and help caring for himself
but he could do you know he could feed himself he could do things for himself
um and i had him on a waiting list there then he got so that he they could not handle him at that level
and they didn't have a higher level at that facility which i really didn't think of you know when i checked him in uh so then i had to go and i had to start all over again
uh medicaid will under certain circumstances medicare will again under you have to be [discharged] from the hospital and for so many days uh medicare will like i said under certain circumstances
my dad did not was not eligible for medicaid and medicare would not cover alzheimer's
so that
yeah
it almost goes by case by case
it is
it it does
and
well how do we feel about the nursing home
right
um i have a dad eighty nine years old
and uh he has [parkinson's] and there are three of us children my sister brother and i
and we decided that we could not live with him going to a nursing home
and so for two years we took turns my brother and i live here
my sister lives in [longview] going back and forth up there helping her she has him in her home
and uh we just decided we couldn't put him in the nursing homes
but i decided i couldn't keep on with that
and now she won't put him in the nursing home
i think she's getting close
but the problem with these nursing homes is the cost
and uh he has a house and since he has a house
it would cost oh i don't know something like two thousand dollars
i think to keep him
and uh uh i really need to know more about it
oh
ooh yes
yeah
is she still mobile though
oh really
right
they become a vegetable more or less
and uh they don't they sedate them
and forget them
uh_huh
well it really is
uh my dad can't even feed himself and um he still you know has his pretty his mind pretty much
and that's why we can't put him there i guess if he didn't have his mind you know it would be easier to do that
but
yeah
well hopefully
they're going to clean these things up
i don't that they will
right
yeah
i guess one problem that they're having in these homes is is help
they don't have enough help to go around
yeah
i have a friend here that i think her mother's like ninety seven or something
and uh she's been well pleased with the care of course she goes every day
and i think as long as you go every day to see about them they get better care
uh_huh
yeah
right
well i do
you know anything about the um qualifications uh i mean of knowing qualifications of the nursing homes
uh_huh
no
no
they're really not
and i think as long as they're is a family member to go in and see about them they get better care
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
well that's kind of the way my dad was when he had to leave his home he he left my home and went to my sister's and of course you know as far as
hi
hi [bridget] i'm [gunner] i'm here in dallas
oh you are
oh okay
oh okay
yeah
sure am
okay
well uh i think there uh you know need to have uh some some means of taking care of them in a in a reasonable
and uh uh i guess respectful way
and uh it's uh i guess my biggest problem is that uh they seem to
uh be you know put in nursing homes and just forgotten about
that's
you know
have you uh ever spent much time or worked around one or anything
oh yeah
is there uh uh well shoot i guess there's no uh medicare i don't think pays for it
uh um i don't know it's just the whole thing is just kind of amazing to me
uh
uh_huh
yeah
and a lot of other countries though uh uh you know basically like family takes them
and uh i guess take them for as long as they are
you know as long as they live
well i yeah i do too
um
especially now that all the you know everybody is getting older and living longer
and uh
you know it's it's there's going to be more and more folks
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
um yeah
that is uh that's difficult i tell you
uh_huh
yeah
yeah um
yeah
it sure is
i know like uh uh lot of places it's like hundred dollars a day
you know
i know
but uh
is it
i don't even know
yeah
no
not really my parents are still pretty young
my father is forty five mother about the same age
yeah
um so it really hasn't been an issue for me
how about yourself
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
have they done anything with uh supplemental insurance for that
or
uh_huh
yeah
well i've heard about this uh insurance
i was wondering because it seems like what i've heard is usually that is uh kind of thing where they cancel you a couple of years after you get into the home
so it tends to be kind of useless anyway
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
i know it seems to me that for the kind of money a nursing home typically costs you can maybe even afford to to have a nurse come into the home periodically
yeah
dollars a year at that point you know
it seems like you could hire somebody part time
yeah
certainly more [dignified] than uh than warehousing them
right
yeah
it's it's kind of scary because it seems like uh you know a lot of people you know have the budgets of these places has gotten so tight
and uh you know they just really can't take care of them very well the budget and staffing especially if it's state run
uh_huh
yeah
it seems like every time i see something on television
it's not good
yeah
yeah
it seems that way
yeah
i sure do
they're they're pretty healthy everybody in my family seems to die when they're they're in good health
but they get to be like seventy or eighty and all have [aneurysms] just drop dead
yeah
i think you know that's pretty good way to go
i'd be happy
yeah
that's the worst part um seems to me that a lot of times people wind up in nursing homes who tend to survive major things like strokes or uh heart attacks that sort of thing
and then you know they can't really help themselves
so they have to be cared for
right
yeah
i mean it seems like they'd almost just doing better off just withholding care to some some degree
yeah
yeah
well it seems to me it's a little bit easier with the elderly because you know at least they've lived a life and
yeah
yeah
it's something it's something like fifty percent or greater of all health care expenses are in the last five years of your life
so
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
yeah
seems like uh unfortunately many of those people who are put through those if they'd uh let their wishes be known ahead of time frequently they wouldn't have been interested in [heroic] measures and if that's the case then
uh_huh
yeah
well i don't know
my wife's a medical student
and uh you know it's a journal of the a m a
and the american medical news thing
and it seems like that physicians unless they're in writing or video tape or something
you couldn't take care of her anymore huh
yeah
that's
rough isn't it
uh_huh
wow
yeah
that's really hard my grandma is uh just turned ninety
and she's still on her own
and she's down in phoenix
and i don't know what we'll do when she can't take care of herself her her son my dad is dead
and she has a daughter my aunt uh who lives in another state
but uh she
uh well i'm the uh yeah
i'm my sister and i are the are her only grandkids
so i don't i don't know what's going to happen with her
but she's amazingly strong uh
yeah
but i don't know
i guess uh most of us uh probably end up there sooner or sooner or later
oh my gosh
uh_huh
uh_huh
boy that's amazing
that's a lot of stress
uh_huh
uh_huh
amazing
uh_huh
every night
wow that's dedicated
oh i see
huh
yeah
it's a tough emotional uh issue
yep
yeah
that's tough
uh_huh
uh_huh
[whoo] i remember one time i was uh in a mexican restaurant here in seattle
and uh i i was sitting alone in this booth reading and eating
and i overheard some folks in the next booth who i think some of them worked at the restaurant they were a little younger than me
and they were talking about the differences between
i don't know whether they were from mexico or or but they were you know
definitely latin american
they were talking about the differences between uh how uh our country cares for old people
and what it was like back home
yeah
and they were just appalled that anybody could put somebody in a you know in a rest home
yeah
they weren't course they weren't talking about uh where you know you're absolutely unable to care for them
but it was it
you know they would come from large extended families where you know the the old people were uh were at home
yeah
and uh most people don't want to live that way
today in this country
yeah
god yeah
i don't know
i
and i've been single so long
i don't even know if i could handle living with a wife
i'm probably [incorrigible] yeah
yeah
i do have actually as a matter of fact uh and i'm i'm not sure how it would relate to the big city
but there are certainly ways and humane and nice ways of handling care for elderly i come from a very small community in northern iowa
and the churches have [banded] together and built and staffed a retirement home
and the care of course is is wonderful
because these are all people who care
and every week
the churches a different uh groups of the churches volunteer and come in and maybe have bingo day or special celebration day or help somebody with their birthday or whatever
and it makes the care very [personalized] of course
but since it is a small community
everybody knows everybody
and so there there would be absolutely zero chance of any abuse
yeah
it's it's a real problem uh it is a real problem
and i know that everybody hates the idea of going to one of these but i also think that it is a choice that we have all made in our lives as we have drawn back and [internalized] ourselves
as opposed to being a part of the community uh it used to be that neighbors looked out for you
the churches looked out for you
but many of us don't belong to churches anymore
and so therefore we don't have this broadened community of caring people
no
no
absolutely not you know i presume when when the time comes for something to happen to me that i will probably go back to iowa to be in that community
but uh
but it's the type of thing where i think we should look at some things that are working and try to use them in the cities also
i mean is there some reason why some of the churches here could not band together and do a similar situation
yes
and actually a great deal more money
right
but you know if my if all of my kids still live here
and i go back to iowa
of course there's no convenience so probably
it would [behoove] me to try to start something of this sort here in dallas
but uh that's a big job you know uh so many needs are crying the homeless the abused children
the the beaten wives you know there's so many things going on that that how do we all of this
and maybe that's a part of it
maybe maybe what we can do is uh of course this is kind of a far [flung] situation
but uh you know they're talking about work fare now in uh wisconsin
i believe it is
but
is there some reason i wonder why we couldn't have some of these people involved in nursing homes
so that they didn't have to be so expensive
you know if if you've got somebody who is drawing welfare then perhaps that can be quote part of their their payment for their welfare payments
yeah
because part of the problem now is that it costs so much money to get into a [convalescent] home or or an aged home you know it's almost prohibitive for many persons and uh you know
so what do you do does someone go on welfare in order to get in one of those homes or does somebody in the family quit their job
so that they can be at home
and and but of course that's not always wonderful either because somebody with alzheimer's needs twenty four hour watching
and nobody can do that
well see i don't have a relative that's made it over sixty one huh_uh
but my children's on their father's side have them up into the nineties
but uh the only time we came close
and we started looking into it was when my grandmother became senile
she start senile at fifty
and at that time the homes that we were looking for when i was a kid uh my mother i can remember them arguing they couldn't find one that it was either clean enough or they took enough care or there was one thing or another that continuously arguing about it
and they ended up keeping her from relative to relative
and of course she died when she was fifty nine
so it wasn't that long
but the few i've been in they have varied tremendous so uh
oh well we were talking about it the other day
because a girl at work has got that problem right now
and uh she keeps saying
she's never going to put her mother in one
and i says hey look go around look at them they're totally different than your concept of what it was years ago
and i says i don't know what condition your mother's in which i didn't
but you do have the choice now
and i says what is your mother going to do all day long while you're out here at work
i says think about what she would like to have because a lot of them hey they might be bedridden but at least they've got company and people their own age to talk to to keep them home
what do you've got
they're sitting there like they're they [vegetate] is what happens
uh_huh
see you're not aware of the the horror stories and things like that that i've grown up with
and i mean i'm talking about horror stories and they're still out there
i mean it's it's not something that's been eliminated
there are lots of homes out there that just literally people drop them off forget about them
and they change hands
i mean i'm not saying they don't investigate they investigate it's great when they're there
but unless they keep current with it
and they changes hands it goes either direction
because they're relying on a lot of people that hey they're like any other business if you lose a lot of your customers they get into a financial bind and people say well you know they're a nursing home
but i say hey it doesn't work that way they're a business
well like my neighbor she runs down here to this nursing home down here
and she just point [blank's] tired of the pressure and responsibility of working as a nurse in a hospital
she admits it
she's tired of it
so she works down here
she's a nurse
she's qualified
but she's fifty oh she's in her early fifties somewhere and working down here at the nursing home keeps her hand in there
she gets good money for it
and she enjoys the old people
you know it's it's just that simple for her
but uh
and she says it's hard
they get cranky they get obstinate
but she feels the same way i do i would rather depending on the situation
i would rather be able to put myself or anybody else in a nursing home if i was able to get close enough to them
so they don't feel lost
now see my grandmother she wouldn't go in a nursing home besides being scared
and everybody else didn't want her she was terrified of one literally and positively terrified because she remembers the old stuff
uh_huh
oh
oh she drives
oh yeah
they've got nothing
or they get on the telephone all day long
but i mean this is one area where i'd like to see social security or the government step in and take people over a certain age or with handicaps or something and take their social security away from them
i mean give them you know money at a certain point and putting them in homes to where they can get something fed back to them
in other words people talk to
and become still human beings because you see people down in south dallas
and every where else sitting in a house
they don't know anybody they're scared to death of [robbers] they're scared to death of everything
they hardly have enough food to even eat on
i mean you're not living
yeah
i mean hey i'm putting all this money out to the government
why can't they put it out there rather than in the federal prisons um
but you know you see pictures on t v
i mean i wish i had enough money to go down there and do something
but you know i don't know
they if they can have day care
why can't they put elderly people care and put them in a home to where it's regulated
well i certainly um can appreciate the patience and the you know energy and money and time and effort it would require for someone to you know take care of their elderly parent or whatever in their home
i think that you know would definitely be [preferable] if the person is you know able to do that
i think sometimes people take on
i know i have one friend who is taken on more than she can handle you know with her her mom needing constant supervision and for one person to be able to cope with that you know is really difficult
but i know it's hard not to feel guilty
you know to put somebody in a nursing home
i if i suppose if you could find a nursing home that you thought really comfortable you know that they were getting adequate care
but i think that's probably pretty hard to do at times
i've not ever been put in this position
i personally would have a real hard time taking care of my father he's getting up there
but he's very difficult to live with
and i think that would be a real consideration in in um entering him into our family unit here you know
so there's a lot of factors involved
well i think i would in some ways have to decide how much personally you know i was able and willing to handle and how much it would affect the rest of my family because i have two small children
and um we don't have a real large house
if you had a lot of money
and you were able to you know have like a little separate wing or something where i wouldn't have to constantly be having my children you know
be quiet and go away
and that kind of thing to accommodate an elderly person
i think you know just the medical aspects too would be a big question how much um it would require you know in terms of nursing care at home
and i know that there is often times insurance companies won't even pay anything to the families for doing things if they were in a nursing home would cost you know a hundred times more
so that's a consideration too
but i don't know
it would be a really rough choice to make depending on the parent and their personality and you know your own family and what's going on with i'm home all day
anyway right now with young kids
but if i was working full time and had to give up a career that would be another you know problem too
but um the only people i've seen is my husband's grandmother has been in a nursing home for several years
i know that uh there's been a lot of questions from other family members as to whether she's getting enough attention and whether they just kind of let her sit there and roll her over once in a while
it it's really tragic to go in those places
so
so
um i think i would uh look for a place that definitely had the physical [attributes] and it wasn't a [sterile] kind of environment
but had a comfortable feeling to it
that respected uh that you seem to see some respect for peoples privacy
and the attitude that the staff would have towards the patients i i was visiting a friend in the hospital and there was a nurse screaming at an older man that was a head injury unit
and he had apparently wet his pants and they had a blanket [draped] over him and the blanket had either fallen to the floor
or he had dropped it on the floor and the nurse was just screaming at him about how [obscene] that was or something
and i just thought gosh if i walked into a place
and i saw a staff member just [berating] or humiliating a patient i'd definitely
that would be something i'd really want to be on the look out for
um i would hope they would have some consistent staff i know they don't pay that much in a lot of those places
and so there's probably a lot of turnover that would be another thing that would be you know something to be important because i think it's confusing particularly if people are in some state of mental you know confusion anyway to have constant new people on staff and having to develop new relationships
and
oh i don't know what else other than that maybe some place that had activities you know that they could participate in
instead of just kind of sitting there watching the wall or something you know
talking to other people who had family members there
see how responsive the staff was to the things i brought up you know that i thought were important for my family member it would really be hard because when we go to visit
i'm sure places have you know their best foot forward kind of thing
unless you drop in frequently and kind of get the since of what's going on behind the scenes it would really be hard to know it's kind of similar in away to some of the things you look for in going to try and find day care for your kids
you know
so uh i'm sure if you have enough money you can find just super care
but you know the cost of it is probably just horrendous
yeah
i think that would be great
i had wished often with my husband's grandmother that she had been in a place like that because she had lived alone in an upper story of an apartment building away from even friends not really close by her or a grocery store or anything
and i thought she could have lived a a lot longer if she had been in a place where she didn't have to climb up and down the stairs haul groceries and then she would have people to check on her and didn't have to cook because she just got to a point where she wouldn't cook just for herself
and then she fell down and nobody knew about it for hours and hours and hours
so i think that would be great if i had to choose a place for myself
that's definitely
i think that kind of atmosphere would be wonderful
even i recall where i was living in the college dormitory as a graduate student
i thought how how neat
you know that you can have a place where you can you know go down together have dinner with other people because if your living alone the isolation and the depression and all those other factors should be taken into consideration too
so i thought you know they should have dorms for older people
so they had activities going on all the time
and you know it was really a much more comfortable lifestyle i could imagine for an older person
so yeah
i think that would be great if they had places like that
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
they had their own privacy
yeah
huh_uh
right
yeah
yeah
i don't know
you know how many of those there are
but i definitely think it's a great idea to have that kind of thing you know for people i know um in that way too that sometimes the elderly can be more involved with their families they can have their grand kids and that kind of thing over to spend the night or there's a lot more freedom i think instead of just being kind of taken away from all of that
and being told where you're going to be
and what you're going to do in a nursing home
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
let's hope it's true
it is
i've i've had a lot of thought thought provoking conversations on the topics
huh_uh
right
right
well as the insurance companies get more into this preventative health care
i think that will help it just seems very slow that that is happening
but uh yeah
i definitely think that will help
yeah
yeah
okay
well take care
thank you
well i would i hate to see them being put into a hair or a health facility care environment because they then feel like you know the family has abandoned them is what i get the comments from elderly people that i know that it's happened to
and the elderly people that i that are still hanging onto their homes that is their greatest fear is to be put into a a a care facility rather than their families taking them in because the families then seem to neglect visiting them
but if that is the case that they have to go to a care facility like that
i think that care facility has to be thoroughly investigated as far as the uh medical um evaluation what kind of credentials do the medical people hold uh if they're qualified uh what type of recreation do they have for them uh their food uh situation um the environment that they are exposed to the majority of the time that they're there is it bright and [cheery] and to put them in with people that have the same type of uh life style uh that they would feel more welcome in uh in making new friends because they can relate to certain individuals because of their personalities um so i guess i would like to hear how you feel about it now ray oh my
i i see
yes
he did uh_huh
uh_huh
that's wonderful
that's good
so he was very independent wasn't he
yes
wow that's wonderful
sure
he it didn't have any [hindrances] for him
uh_huh
oh bless his heart
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i see
sure
i understand that
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
wow
i didn't know that they were that uh
were you satisfied with uh the facility
uh_huh
right
oh
uh_huh
so you established a relationship with the uh the personnel there
uh_huh
uh_huh
okay
well then you did see some compassion from the people there or were they just very businesslike and perhaps not of that faith okay
okay
okay
yes
i see
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
sure
right
oh yes
sure
oh absolutely absolutely
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
so he kind of adopted you and your wife
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm sure he looks forward to that
uh_huh
right
yeah
they're abandoned by their families yeah
or they might not have any at all
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
of course yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
like the old indian people used to do
uh_huh
yeah
how long ago was that
okay
yes
but that was uh okay
so that was fairly recent
and even then
a lot of the conditions i think you're right
they haven't improved that much
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
huh
sounds tough
yeah
right
uh_huh
oh yeah
that's that doesn't seem right
does it
yeah
i
you know you walk into one of those places
and you basically start to feel depressed because they don't
it's almost like they just shove people in there and wait for them to die
you know
and it's it's really it's a bad problem uh i work at honeywell up here
and i was talking to a guy that's actually working toward mobility aids for handicap people and one of the things he's done is interview uh nursing home directors because they're looking for get this they're trying to find out ways to restrain patients so that they don't look like they're [restrained] because apparently the family members who come to visit get upset [understandably] upset when they see that their loved one is in [restraints] you know uh at the same time
you have to restrain him because they might hurt themselves
they might stand up and not be able to stay stood up or might fall down or whatever
so it's an interesting problem that's just one of the many things that you know you have to think about in a nursing home
but you know the stuff that you told me is there's no excuse for that you know
right
stop when they're not on their guard you know
oh sure
you know it's it's really a good idea to look at places and see what's out there and see what the [modes] of treatment are
and and how people act
yeah
you know it really is you know that brings up a good point
i've got a friend of mine up here
and we were talking about this because his father is getting to the age where they're going to have to decide what to do
and he brought up a real interesting suggestion that works well for families that have a lot of kids in it
like i i come from a family that has five kids
well the way he said it was our parents spent you know quite a bit of time when we were young taking care of us you know
call it call it three years per child now if you have five children
that's fifteen years total
therefore shouldn't it be right that they should be able to stay with one family member uh in a rotating fashion for fifteen years free of charge
there you go
it it's essentially repayment yeah
that's it
but the thing is
hold on
i got one more thing
and i'll let
you talk cause we started talking about that you know we started saying well you know some family members might not agree to do that
and he said fine let the one who does agree to do it keep him keep the keep the father or mother for a longer time and charge the family member who doesn't cooperate just
say basically look uh i'll take care of mom and dad for you
but you have to give me a kind of a payment for doing that for you
you know so essentially it it [relieved] them of the burden uh and at the same time everybody kind of comes out happy i don't know if that would work
but then again it it depends on the family size
okay um
have you ever had to put one a a family member in a nursing home
oh
uh_huh
oh
well my mom is sixty five and she's which i feel is you know quite young still
but she's not in the greatest of health and so recently
she has been talking a lot about what we would do if we had to put her in a nursing home
she's adamant that she does not want to live with any of her children
and put that burden on us
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
but their parents are still alive
oh my goodness
wow
oh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh
oh
oh dear
uh_huh
now how do you go about finding out things like that
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh that's right
uh_huh
well that's true
that's right
oh my
boy
well
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh well
uh_huh
well that's what my mom's been saying you know she's been just saving her money and not paying a penny of it
but she says my little bit of savings will probably pay for a nursing home for maybe a year
and then i'll be on medicaid anyway so she said why don't i go out and and enjoy life while i can
and you know when i get to that point of being in a nursing home then maybe medicaid will just have to take care of me
but why don't i just enjoy life now
i think so
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
oh
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
yeah
well it's it's kind of a sad thing to think about isn't it
okay
so what do you think about uh uh health care for the elderly
right
that's all
all the bills
does that include uh nursing home type care
just strictly health care
right
right
that's a hundred percent coverage
so it's that's good
huh
um
huh
right
so where does she well uh i guess in terms of where do you is your mother now in a a nursing home
right
i guess that's the big question is uh what what happens when they begin to get older i have a grandmother
and it
she is not really uh you know she is getting to the point where she almost can't be in a nursing home
she spends some time with my parents some time now she is with an uncle of mine living with them
but she requires a lot of attention and she can't really exist on her own any longer
and that's that's kind of a difficult situation that that she has to live with one of her children
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
my uh my grandmother is hers is physically she is in not too bad of shape
she is in her upper eighties
i guess forgetting in my order
but uh she's uh alzheimer's i guess
and so her memory is very poor
and so she can't really be on her own
but she can still do things by herself
but you just have to uh kind of direct her
um only if i had to
yeah
it's real hard on both the family and the people i mean
yeah
yeah
how old is she
i see
yeah
well um would like if do you think you're going to have to it's going to come to that
yeah
i went through this with both my grandmothers we had to get someone to look after them
but we were lucky
and we found someone to look after them in their home
we didn't have to put them in a home
yeah
yeah
well my great grandmother that we had to put in a nursing home because it got to where my grandmother couldn't take care of her
after they put her in there with
i mean she deteriorated i mean her health really got worse
after after a short
yeah
well that's um i guess references or whatever from other people
first of all
and then all that you'd have to check
i think all the licensing that they go through
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
see that's what it is the people are so old in there that they don't really know what's going on
and i think that they can get away with that
you have to
i think you have to really check into them real closely
and then even after you put someone in there then you would want to be able to check up on them on a
weekly basis just to make sure that they were [treating] them properly
oh
that wouldn't be too bad
yeah
it's a scary thought
yeah
i think she was like
my great grandmother was about she was i think ninety two
one of my girl friends her her great grandmother is a hundred and two
but she still lives at home with her with her family or whatever
yeah
no
it's a it's a tough decision
it's a tough decision to put to put them in there
and then uh_huh
but just it's a lot of responsibility
no
ma'am
yeah
no
what um i'm trying to think what else we went through oh
and then the medication if they have to have medication
that's another thing that that i mean you never really know
and you never really feel confident with anything unless you're actually doing it yourself
and if they're at a home
you don't know that they're being given their medicine
uh_huh
yeah
well it's kind of you know you put them in there
someone so someone else can take care of them
and then you really wonder you can't feel really confident that they're being taken care of
what
huh_uh
yeah
well how do you feel about um putting an elderly family family member in a nursing home
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i agree
i it's it's a tough issue
i feel like each case probably has to be evaluated individually
i feel um i i feel like as families you know we need to take care of the older ones in our families
and yet i understand
um well we may be facing that with my grandmother
she is living near my parents out in california
and they this year they moved her into a um retirement apartment complex
so she's got part time care
but as soon as she needs around the clock care then she's not allowed to live there any more
and so we'll have to face the issue of whether she moves in with my mother or they put her into a nursing home
and it's it's difficult because i know my mother feels really um torn about it
she doesn't want to to put her in a place where she's going to be unhappy lonely
or where there's bad care
and sometimes you just don't know what the the place is like um
i mean you really need to get recommendations i guess from others
and um and yet it's a real burden to her to have to to be there all the time or else you know or else like you said you have to hire someone to be in the home
it's a tough issue
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh i was thinking you know might i guess i would want to visit the place quite a bit before or something
and and talk to the staff see what their attitudes are
talk to some of the people that live there and see how they feel about being there um because i've been in different nursing homes where i've [sensed] different [atmospheres] you know often
it's it's been negative where and i know that partly can be the attitude of the person if they they feel neglected by their family or whatever or they feel just ready to die
and you know tired of feeling
not feeling good all the time
then they're not going to feel too good
but then i've i've been to other places where you know the people have told me um this is a really good place the people here really care about us
so
yeah
yeah
yeah
well no
um but all the years that i've been alive
she has for the last thirty years or so
it's central california
yeah
uh_huh
well i
we're sort of in the middle of it
uh last february
we brought my mother from florida to up here in texas
and so far
she has been with us
but i really look to the future that it may be occurring uh uh
i don't know what i will do i am almost inclined to hire somebody uh to be in our home with her rather than have to put her somewhere
you know
but
well i think partly and it's not me
it's the it seems to me the older generation my mother and father and my in laws uh you know the stigma use to be you went there
and you died
and so they have all kind of
right
you know i just uh
and you try and say they are nice
now or or nicer
and you know i wouldn't want her in one in florida
because i couldn't check on her but if she were in one near here
i i would probably be there you know several times per week and i would stand up and scream if i saw things that were you know
[improper] or uh you know her care was not
have you had that experience yet
well
oh
right
it's uh well my father died several years ago
and that was you know he had cancer and eventually the hospital comes and says you know your father uh you know medicare says he doesn't need the level of care to be hospitalized so you are going to eventually they will come and tell you will have two days to you know move him somewhere else and that my mother and i needed to uh think what do we want to do
at that point we did
because he was not yet [comatose] but real close
and he lived two weeks in the nursing home
so we did do that
but uh at that time three and a half years ago my mother was in such a state of depression i didn't think she could handle even if we had full time around the clock care
i didn't think emotionally she could handle him being there
well it
yes
that too
you know there is no question that uh just moving them about is uh difficult
but it really is
and it's just uh
and i have friends who we are all in the age group where we are thinking about
some of these things for our parents
and it really is
uh with
well of course this again was in florida actually the level of care
and in fact two that we looked at you know they were all in [mauve] and blue and very elegant looking
and so on
but i didn't like the fact that they had you know eight patients for one uh you know nurse
or one care giver
and the one we selected was not nearly as uh up to date however it was clean and the patients were well cared for
and i like to think because it had a level of five to one
and i felt that that would be better care for my father uh and several of her neighbors and friends oh
but you ought to
i said i know
but we are making this decision
and my mom basically let me make the decision
so
uh
and she was pleased with it because he did get uh you know just wonderful care
oh absolutely
i don't care what you know one of these had a little ice cream parlor
and i looked at the manager and i said my father you know will never get out of a bed
i don't care about an ice cream parlor
you know if you went there
and you were in your seventies
and well you just went there to uh you know a retirement center yes
you could do all that good stuff
but this was i wanted him cared for
and not left you know if he spoiled his [linens] or something
i did not want that
you know there
what do you do in a hospital work with
okay
all right
right
yeah
no
i haven't either
but a lot of my friends and actually my boss had to put his mother in a nursing home
and i know just going through it with him
i mean it's a real traumatic experience
first just even deciding to do it
and then i think feeling guilty after you know that it needs to be done you know
oh really
uh_huh
okay
that's what i was just going to say if they're out of state you know
it's different if they're in the same town
i think you have a little more chance to look out for them
but then too if you work you know you get there has to be somebody there
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh oh you mean not staying at home
and not yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
well that's it
because gee
they've got probably a good twenty years to live
in some cases if they're healthy you know
it would be clean yeah
i know
and to make sure that there's enough people there to keep everybody like that
can you know to be involved instead of just leaving them sit in their room you know
uh_huh
yeah
in fact i used to date a guy that reminds me when i was back in minneapolis
but his mother
i mean he had she ended up i guess getting it what they now call alzheimer's yeah
but to begin with you know when they first
i mean she would know us you know
and we'd go to visit her
but then it would get you know like she didn't really know she didn't know me
and then she thought he was a brother you know
and it just got steadily worse you know
uh_huh
and has been independent all their lives
and then all of a sudden you know
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
just getting used to it
oh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
well that yeah would definitely be a positive part because they'd be around more people
and would be easier for them to get and to see those people
i guess
well i would think that you ought to be in fact i was going to say that i would go at different times of the day
not only when they're expecting you to come
you know just to see how you know at different time of the day what they do
and how they treat them you know
uh_huh
or is it just because yeah
they're having such a hard time adjusting you know
uh_huh
right
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
that's very spicy too  
i mean these bell peppers and curry  
oh that sounds really good  
huh  
i guess it was  
is this dinner time for you  
all done in advance  
yeah  
that's um i uh i'm i'm not that great a cook  
but i was single until i was thirty  
so i did cook a little you know  
uh and i cook a little bit now  
what i like to do mostly is stir fries  
and my wife normally says oh tom why why don't you make a stir fry tonight  
and so we even we just were recently married so we have a stir fry pan sort of like a big wok  
and we do a lot of um stir fry vegetables  
it's it's called a stir fry pan  
and it and it fits right on your uh it fits right on your burner whether it's gas or electric  
so it's it has a [flatter] bottom than a normal wok does  
and um normally what what we do is um just you know like two tablespoons of oil maybe sesame oil or some other type of oil than just regular vegetable oil  
but i will use peanut peanut oil or things  
and then we just stir fry broccoli and carrots and um green peppers and um maybe put in a little bit of um garlic and ginger uh beforehand  
that gives uh uh uh [spicier] flavor  
and then after the stir fry is over just mix in um a little bit of uh sometimes chicken broth   and corn starch and soy sauce  
and that sort of makes a uh a glaze   that sticks to the the vegetables  
i've used  
you turn them over  
a lot of times when we do stir fry we just put in [tofu]  
we don't put in meat   cause i guess we're i'm not  
but uh she likes to watch all the how much red meat and things  
so we'll do a lot of times vegetarian  
but it's a real good meal because you have squash and broccoli and uh carrots and celery and green peppers and um oh gee mushrooms  
it's it's a pretty big  
and we put that over rice  
oh you don't  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see we never in fact i never had squash growing up  
my my wife eats more vegetables ate more vegetable than i did growing up  
i'm i'm from pittsburgh  
and pittsburgh is a very meat and potato town  
yeah  
recipes in pittsburgh [consisted] of red meat and a potato  
red meat and a potato  
oh she had all of those types of vegetables  
see never no vegetables in my family  
yeah  
it was really funny  
well that was a real farm  
no  
but i i've i've heard stories uh  
i've heard stories  
uh  
oh this is  
you shouldn't be talking about this right before while you're fixing dinner  
that's right  
you should be careful  
that's pretty funny  
but my dad used to tell stories you know about the way they eat chickens  
but i never we never we lived in the suburbs  
we we bought everything in a grocery store  
there was no  
but it was funny you know  
it so  
but when we got married you know a lot more vegetables a lot more you know a lot of changes  
i think so too  
but we just went shopping  
and we came back with uh with uh sweets you know chocolate covered peanuts  
and   uh we came back with sweets  
we didn't bring all the healthy food back too  
uh_huh  
well that's that's supposed to be um the trend of the future   but uh the cut back  
i uh recently was over a friends house that's indian  
and uh she had brought indian sweets into the office  
and it was really funny because they were made from yogurt and carrots  
yeah  
that was a sweet  
and i was like ugh  
this is a sweet  
oh it is it's a candy  
i'm like ugh you know  
indian candy is not very good  
but everything was and everything  
you didn't notice it at first  
but everything was sort of hot  
everything had a little bit of curry in it  
it was funny even the sweets did  
when you first took a bite of them you didn't notice it  
but then after a couple of minutes you could taste it  
you know it had that that after taste that very it was a very indian flavor  
good  
they didn't have  
i didn't like her desserts very well  
they were very yogurt and carrots and [pistachios] [pistachio] nuts and yogurt  
and it wasn't very good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well have we done our ten minutes  
something like that  
i think we're  
no  
normally they just come in  
and they say you've overextended your your conversation  
oh okay  
well that's  
you'll see it will normally it will come on  
and it'll say you've over extended your conversation you now have fifteen minutes to fifteen seconds to complete it  
but uh i've been cut off twice  
so i just thought  
in fact i'm just also  
i'm hearing a [siren] outside i think my my neighbors car must have got bumped you know  
he has one of those alarms on his car  
one of the the neighbor has an alarm on a car  
and it's going off  
so i was going to go out and see what they were doing  
okay  
hey thanks so much  
uh_huh  
and you said this was your  
well you'll you'll get a couple more probably  
i uh i called yesterday i or friday  
maybe i talked to somebody that uh i got them on uh during the day  
it was a housewife  
and she was home with two kids  
and while we're talking the kids are screaming in the background you know that they wanted something  
and they were arguing back and forth  
and she just kept talking the whole time  
it was pretty funny  
okay  
hey thanks a lot  
i'll talk to you later  
bye  
okay  
in order to make the uh [curried] chicken i just fried the chicken   until it was nice and brown you know  
make sure it's nice and brown on both sides  
and then you take it out of the fat  
and you you let the chicken you fried kind of drain so that a lot of the oil comes out of it  
and then you you uh pour most of the all of the oil out of the pan  
and you kind of clean it out  
and you put back maybe two tablespoons full of the oil and [saute] some um bell peppers and onions in in that little bit of oil  
maybe one tablespoon or two tablespoons let that brown then put all of the chicken back in there  
and then you uh mix flour and a cup of water maybe uh one tablespoon of flour and a cup of water  
stir it real real well  
then you uh pour that in there you know to make the gravy  
and you let it come to a boil again  
and then you let it simmer  
and you add uh about a tablespoon of what i'm using now is [jamaican] curry powder  
and that's going to it's going to be really good  
yeah  
it's  
right  
and then if you like it really hot you can add some hot hot peppers and hot sauce and all that kind of stuff  
yeah  
uh well it will be in a little while  
i'm trying to get it get it ready early  
oh  
uh_huh  
what kind of wok do you have  
is it is it a real chinese wok  
uh_huh  
i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that's   that sounds real good except the squash  
i just don't like squash  
i never did  
my mother used to cook a whole pan full of squash  
and she'd have squash and corn bread  
and maybe some she'd have chicken or something  
and i'd just be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds good  
we we were from north carolina  
and we had a garden  
and my mother would would uh grow the squash  
and she'd grow white potatoes and onions and cabbage and [collards] and all kinds of  
right  
wow  
you wouldn't believe it we even raised chickens  
you ever seen anybody kill a chicken  
and they put the head under a tin tub and chop the head off  
and then you hear the chicken jumping around under the tub  
and finally it dies down  
you get just a little [patter]  
and then it  
getting ready to eat chicken too  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
a lot of people are eating healthier now a days  
yeah  
ugh  
yeah  
i'm trying to learn how to cook um deserts without without all of the sweets you know maybe use honey or something  
yeah  
ugh  
uh right  
the spice  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i might have liked some of that  
i i like hot stuff  
i really do  
oh is it ten minutes  
i don't know  
do we get a signal  
oh well this is my first one  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
goodness  
uh_huh  
well okay  
yeah  
thank you  
it was nice talking with you  
yeah  
ugh  
yeah  
kind of hard that way  
okay  
all right  
thank you  
bye bye  
okay  
what do you like to cook  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that would be good for a dinner party that you know to cook that because you don't have to deal with eight different things   coming out at once  
is that what you usually cook when you have a party  
uh_huh  
really  
that sounds good  
um fattening  
uh we  
it's funny that um we're talking about this  
we just had a dinner party  
and we had um  
our senior pastor and his wife came over  
and i catered to their diet is the only thing though  
so it wasn't something i really wanted to make  
i really wanted to make red beans and rice and with   you know sausage  
because i'm from new orleans originally  
and um i was going to make that red beans and rice with the those cajun sausage and french bread with garlic butter and stuff  
and uh well there's salad  
and then for desert i would i really wanted to make um just brownies  
or french [donuts] would have been good  
but it's real hard to make them  
they don't really come out like they do in new orleans up here  
i don't know why  
i don't know if it's me or the water or the recipe i have  
but  
um that's what i want  
that's what i like to make is just real neat stuff like that  
but  
kind of like the italian  
it's really good  
but instead i catered to their diet  
so i made baked chicken in the crock pot  
and um it was good and everything  
it had all the vegetables in it  
but it seemed kind of boring compared  
right  
i find it changing the way that i eat but not the way i entertain  
because i guess i guess i feel like if they're on a diet like that i'm going to you know honor that  
but if it's just  
another couple came um over a couple weeks later  
and i made  
what did i make that night  
i made a roast  
and i made um uh  
i can't believe this  
my husband broke the coffee pot i just bought yesterday  
i can't believe that  
anyway but i asked  
when [ricky] and [carrie] came over we made um a pot roast with rice and gravy and salad and the whole bit  
and normally i don't eat we don't eat like that during the week because of the you know the calories and the fat in it  
but you know when we're having guests we just kind of say oh just do it  
and i made blueberry [cobbler]  
and we had extra crust with it  
it was so fattening  
but i don't think we gained any weight from it  
so  
right  
i made an apple pan downy when the pastor and his wife came over  
and she didn't eat it  
but i did bake apples so that it would be not brownies you know  
i figured there was less calories in apple pan downy than in fudge brownies  
so um i've read a good brownie recipe  
but uh anyway so i guess that's about what i did when i entertained  
so do you have anything else you want to say about it  
okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye  
i like well i like to cook foods i like to eat  
i like to eat italian food best  
and i find that i that's pretty easy to cook because a lot of it is one dish meals type things and   they're kind of convenient  
right  
um i usually have parties that are smaller groups  
i don't have i've never had a real big dinner party except at traditional holidays like thanksgiving and such  
and so um yeah  
i guess i usually do  
i like to cook um heavy sauces and um   noodles and pasta and such  
yeah  
actually  
how about you  
what do you like to to cook  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
humidity or something  
uh_huh  
it kind of uh kind of down played compared to what you would like huh  
do you find yourself um with all the um cholesterol and and high fiber changing the way that you that you entertain  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds good  
well every once in a while i i think i feel the same way  
when i'm entertaining i don't take that thing into consideration unless it's really really  
like a lot of women will turn down dessert if it's too rich simply because they don't want the extra calories  
so i think dessert is the only thing that i kind of down play sometimes  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
um nothing comes to mind right off  
so i guess not  
okay  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
um yeah  
that's what it said to discuss some maybe a recipe  
well it says why would you what you would have for a dinner party  
um this is strange because i pressed one and i thought it said begin  
okay  
maybe maybe we're all set  
okay  
we'll talk for five minutes  
they interrupt at the end  
um yeah  
it says what you would have for a dinner party  
i just happen to plan one out for saturday  
i'll tell you   what i'm going to have   um if i can find it  
well i have this new fondue pot  
and i was going to do basic cheese fondue  
and i have two different kinds of [breads] and some ham  
and i was going to try something weird which you know  
when you have fish au [gratin]  
i was going to make some uh like fish chunks and dip it in the fondue  
i don't know if it will come out  
yeah  
the cheese fondue i make  
some people like swiss um  
i prefer cheddar  
and i'll mix  
i won't make i won't have a sharp cheddar because it for fondue i think it should be a little [calmer] than real sharp   cheddar  
and then i was going to make other things like potato skins  
see you don't necessarily have to dip this stuff  
and um i was going to have broccoli and cauliflower for a a vegetable  
oh yeah  
it's amazing how vegetables trays will go at a party  
yeah  
instead of something greasy or  
my uh girlfriend's do catering  
and they always about every party they do is they have a vegetable [tray]  
i think they try and suggest it  
what i've been doing when i get invited someplace and bring something i make uh food [kabobs]  
you take little toothpicks and cut up   uh pineapple and strawberry   and even banana if you can do it just before you leave  
it stays nice and fresh  
yeah  
yeah  
i like those  
um they they made a couple of those uh  
they made one for my uh [bridal] shower  
and i was pretty pleased  
i never made one for myself though  
but they look easy enough to make  
it's not  
yeah  
yeah  
you probably get this probably pretty sticky after you get done  
then you've got to drain the water out of the watermelon because you know when you scrape it it makes the water  
yeah  
um something i do is a fruit  
is i'll get um make chocolate sauce and dip strawberries and bananas in them  
yeah  
i have two nieces  
and they they they go melt some chocolate chips  
go buy me some strawberries  
yeah  
you know if you get a sweet strawberry they're much better  
but if you get a sour strawberry  
huh yeah  
no  
they um the strawberries are coming in season now from  
they're they're coming up from florida of course  
i live in vermont  
so but they're really reasonably priced  
they're coming up from florida  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
i think the uh actually i think they get um some of them from south america  
yep  
they  
a lot of um of a um winter produce comes from south america  
of course their seasons are switched  
so um do you want to discuss the recipe  
i have a recipe if you want  
um it filled  
a lot of people try to stay away from this  
but i make my own homemade pudding just because i don't like box pudding  
yeah  
it and it if you um well  
first of all i take about a quarter and a half of milk  
and i put it in a two quart saucepan  
and you put it on a really low heat  
and you want to use one of your good sauce pans that [dissipate] the heat because it it ends up burning  
i mean no matter how careful you are you still might get a film on the bottom of the pot  
i don't let that worry me  
and i get the milk lukewarm  
and then i pour about a half a cup of cornstarch in it  
and i have this thing  
it's called the [slender] blender  
it it makes the uh it makes uh a whip topping out of milk if you get the milk cold enough  
it's uh i don't know  
they're called [moo] [goo] leaves or something  
they're  
yeah  
they're real neat  
i think they're real reasonably priced  
some of them they used to be a hundred dollars  
and they used to whip skim milk into a dessert  
but i didn't get that one  
i got the black and [decker] kind  
but uh it's real handy because it doesn't have a cord  
and you beat this cornstarch right into the the milk you know  
and it does an excellent job  
or just hand beat it  
i guess you could use a hand mixer  
but i don't think it i don't think it gets it good enough  
and then before the milk gets too hot um i add two beaten eggs and i really mix them in good and then about a half a cup of sugar  
and i let it pretty much  
i beat it like every minute for about ten seconds  
and it's it starts [thickening]  
when it [thickens] the cornstarch might get a little i don't know  
it gets like little [globs] of this [rubbery] cornstarch  
and you just keep beating it in  
and it's the  
the trick is is to have this blender  
so if you were  
you'd have to probably almost go out  
and someone who's just going to make it first time it's  
you'll have much better luck if you had one of these little [blenders]  
and then you can add cocoa powder to it to make chocolate  
or after it's [thickened] i cook it for a good  
once it starts boiling i just i cook it for a good seven minutes   seven to ten minutes  
and then you can make chocolate  
or you can take it off and let it cool  
you put um really good vanilla [favoring] in it and some butter  
and that makes french vanilla um custard  
yeah  
a chocolate powder  
yeah  
that cocoa yeah the unsweetened  
it comes in like a real dark can  
our mothers used to use it  
and then  
yeah  
we all used to  
yeah  
it's the unsweetened kind  
it's not like [nestles] [quik]  
i suppose you could use that  

yeah  
but um  
well i used to make the regular pudding the chocolate and put it in the pie shell  
and if it would sit in the refrigerator for a day where you cut the pie it would soak into the pie shell  
and it was like red  
and i'm like oh  
this is kind of [groedy]  
um actually i found it in one of my mother's um homemade cookbooks  
i mean   something she had collected out of woman's day or something  
so  
i think you couldn't make it with a hand [whisk] or or a regular beater  
but um  
yeah  
but i still think a beater would do it good enough um  
the trick is to get the cornstarch  
um yeah  
right in the in the lukewarm milk  
sometimes i put the cornstarch in a separate bowl  
and i would put it in the sink  
and i'll take my lukewarm milk and put it in the cornstarch and beat it good  
it seems to be better than putting the the cornstarch into the liquid  
it once it hits the top of the liquid it seems to make little balls and stuff on the top  
yeah  
and i'll do this uh  
sometimes i'll put my after i pour that into my back into my saucepan  
i'll put the eggs in the same dish and beat them up and then pour the cornstarch and the milk mixture in the egg  
so  
yep  
and then you know if you can put your cocoa in with your cornstarch if you wanted to the cocoa even seems to [thicken] it even more  
because by the vanilla doesn't seem to [thicken] as well as the  
sometimes the cocoa is  
like my husband really likes it thick  
he says i can stick the spoon right in this  
because i'm always worrying it won't firm up because it when you take it out of the saucepan it's like boy i hope this [thickens] a little more because it's not like real package thick you know  
when you cook a package   it's it's a little less  
but i put it in a nice glass bowl  
and um some people don't like that that film on the pudding  
so you can put uh saran wrap over the top  
and then once the pudding starts cooling it makes little balls of water on the saran wrap  
so when you pull the saran wrap back you sort of should be a little careful pull it back and shake the water off the saran wrap  
and i might put it back on  
but um  
yeah  
after well when it starts [steaming] a lot uh i definitely yeah put it in the refrigerator  
but um i  
my father always told me if you put hot food in your refrigerator you're going to make it work too hard  
that's  
yeah  
so that's why i do that  
so well i don't know  
that's my my great hard recipe  
what what is  
do you have a favorite recipe  
oh  
oh that's wonderful  
okay  
that's  
what kind of fondue the cheese dip or  
right  
yeah  
oh that sounds good  
that's always a good thing  
vegetable trays always go over so well because i think people get tired of eating junk  
i mean i think they like to have healthy stuff too  
you know it's  
oh definitely  
i think better even than than other kinds of food  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
right  
right  
that's true  
or even have you ever seen where they they'll take a watermelon and just cut the top out of it and then hollow that out   and then put the fruit in the watermelon that is really neat  
yep  
oh i think it would it would be a lot of work  
but um   you know because it's you know  
you have to cut each thing or you know use the [melon] [baller] and stuff  
but but i think they're really neat  
and you know i think they're worth the time you know because they  
oh yeah  
right  
yeah  
is that is that good  
you know i've seen that so many times strawberries dipped in chocolate  
but i've never tried it  
are they really good  
oh i bet it doesn't mix well does it  
oh well that's good  
because i know they've been really expensive lately   because they weren't in season  
of course they had to be be uh grown in [greenhouses] and stuff and in  
oh is that right  
oh i  
uh_huh  
right  
well  
okay  
sure  
is that right  
i've never heard of that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think i know what you're  
is it like a hand held  
the  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh huh   huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
that is really interesting  
are you saying to use like um for chocolate like unsweetened  
unsweetened  
yeah  
i have some  
i just want to  
right  
okay  
cooking chocolate  
that's really interesting  
i've never heard of anybody making their own pudding before that's really neat  
well how did you get a recipe for pudding on your own  
is that right  
oh neat  
that is just really neat  
because i  
it would probably be a lot more work and probably not turn out as good  
uh_huh  
so you put the milk in the cornstarch  
and then put that back in the saucepan  
huh that's  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do do you put it in the refrigerator then  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
that's true  
i knew that  
yeah  
yeah  
um hello um  
what is your favorite um food for a dinner party  
do you do tex mex  
oh fajitas  
how do you make fajitas  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh it sounds good  
okay  
well that's nice  
oh well basically um because i lived in the middle east for a while i tend to fix middle eastern foods when i have   have people over  
and so um some of the dips are like [chick] peas mashed with um sesame  
and uh cold um  
what's it called  
i forgot what it's called  
anyway and and my  
that's right  
that's right  
it's called  
now i remember it  
and um [dipping] arabic bread the thin piece of bread in that  
or another dip is made with very similar but with um [eggplant] which has been actually  
it ends up with a barbecued taste  
i  
although we usually bake it in the oven  
or if we have uh  
those of us that have gas stoves bake it on top just like putting it in the gas flame and sort of getting it black   on the outside but mushy on the inside  
but barbecue is it like steaks  
or is it   uh turkey  
would you barbecue a turkey or a chicken  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure that the chicken that we barbecue from the middle east has a lemon garlic sauce  
i wouldn't imagine that a barbecued chicken would  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well it's been fun talking to you  
right  
uh in wyoming it would be less spicy  
vegetables once in a while  
oh dear  
okay  
very good  
okay  
bye bye  
um i don't know  
i i think i make things you know  
i do things kind of simple because i you know i just have close friends over  
i make like lasagna  
and uh-oh we like to have barbecues outside so you know when the weather's nice because in texas you have a lot of nice weather  
so we do a lot of um things like that  
um i'm not really into gourmet cooking  
so i don't know how to do that  
so i don't have gourmet foods  
um yeah  
you know like fajitas and stuff like that  
so  
um it's kind of like made out of skirt steak  
and you marinate it  
you can buy [marinating] mixes here  
i don't know   get it up there  
uh you can you know marinate it in any kind of barbecue sauce you like  
and then you uh you quick fry it real fast with in hot hot grease you know not a not not deep frying it  
but you can either barbecue it which is really good   with uh green beans not green beans but green peppers and red peppers and onions  
and uh then you put it on a flour like you know  
you make your meat real uh thin you know bite size pieces  
then you put it on flour tortillas with you know guacamole and uh sour cream and you know all kinds of you know  
it's like a tex mex type thing  
it's really good  
you can do it with chicken too  
chicken fajitas and stuff  
so  
so what kind of cooking do you do up there  
oh   that sounds interesting  
uh_huh  
you cook them so often you kind of forget their names  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that's unusual i'd never heard of anything like that you know  
here in texas it's all you know tex mex cooking and barbecue  
and   they're really big on stuff like that  
and  
yeah  
you barbecue  
pardon me  
oh yeah  
you can barbecue turkey if you have a big enough grill  
but my i cook my [turkeys] inside you know  
it  
you can buy smoked [turkeys]  
and or uh but most the stuff that we barbecue is like steak and chicken and hamburgers hot dogs   you know  
the simple things like that  
and   you know we we like things like that  
you know barbecue beans and baked beans  
and  
no  
no  
this is more like [hickories] [hickory] type you know  
depending on the  
it's like a smokey flavor   if you've ever you know had stuff like that  
yeah  
it's totally different  
sounds like it would be interesting to eat some of the middle eastern cooking  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
it's been fun  
it's been nice  
it's uh you know new to learn some what different people eat  
so   you get to think you know  
i come from wyoming  
and it's basically the same same type of thing except for you do eat more the tex mex down here  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
you you know  
down there it's just like meat and potatoes you know  
yeah  
right  
well it's been interesting to talk to you  
thank you for calling  
bye bye  
all right  
what are some of your favorite foods  
i imagine in argentina you've got some great foods  
uh_huh  
yes  
i've had i've had that meal in new york uh where they bring you a [plank] sort of with all this wonderful beef   parts of beef cooked and barbecued  
and it's marvelous  
i have to find a place around here that has that  
okay  
i'll keep that in mind yeah  
you serve that yourself or the for a family  
you ever serve that yourself when you have company  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
do you buy them um separately at you know an american grocery store now  
or do you have to  
you don't you don't go buy it from a [wholesaler]  
little butcher shops yeah  
yeah  
i've lived in mexico  
so i know  
yeah  
yeah  
you have to you have poultry place  
what do you what other what dishes do you serve with it  
yeah  
the turnover  
the stuffed turnover  
oh i love those  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you remember when you were in washington sam the [argentine] baker  
it used to be in georgetown years ago  
he moved  
i guess he he retired and went back to argentina  
i guess in the early seventies  
yeah  
so that that's before your time  
your parents might remember if they were here then  
okay  
i mean he was wonderful  
we used to get the most marvelous [impenadas] and other   [argentine] things  
yeah  
i'm italian  
uh_huh  
yeah well  
because there're many italians in argentina  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my grandparents my grandfather came to the united states through argentina  
this was around the turn of the century   actually actually a little bit later like nineteen thirteen nineteen twelve nineteen thirteen  
yeah  
well i'll tell you  
it's interesting because when we cook here  
i'm of italian descent  
my husband is chinese  
so we and we both love continental cooking french cooking  
so we cook uh  
our meals are well  
we don't we don't usually mix  
i mean that sometimes  
well if we're entertaining we'll do a chinese recipe  
and um there are really easy recipe  
that is you know with chinese you always have several dishes  
and nowadays with microwaves  
you can steam many of the things in a microwave  
i don't know if you have one  
and if you like chinese food you can take filet of fish   and put a little bit of soy sauce and a little bit of sesame oil on top of it   and chop some [scallions] and a little ginger   and just cover it with some uh [waxed] paper and steam it just until the fish is done  
and it's a wonderful   um [flavorful] piece of fish  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
buy a fresh filet of fish a nice one at the fish the fish counter  
um any white fish  
sole is good uh um flounder  
sole or flounder is real good and even grouper  
little bit of soy sauce and sesame seed oil  
and not too much soy sauce  
uh some chopped up um you know [slivers] of [scallions]   and [slivers] of ginger and then just cover it and put it in the microwave for just just two say two minutes check it after two minutes to see if the fish [flakes]  
and if the fish [flakes] it's done  
don't [overcook] it though  
well you see just check it you know during  
and another quick dish if you like um do you know what hoi sin sauce is  
it's that sweet chinese sauce  
well if you go in a chinese store ask for hoi sin h o i s i n  
h o i  
s i n or s e n  
either way they'll spell it hoi sin sauce  
it's a very sweet dark sort of a [purplish] plum sauce [purplish] brown  
and if you take uh little pieces of pork and you fry them like little cubes of pork   and you fry them with garlic and a little bit of couple [dashes] of hot pepper   and then mix some hoi sin sauce with sherry just a little sherry   to thin it and stir that in you can even put a spoon of ketchup in  
and that makes a great pork dish with a sort of a spicy sweet sauce that you can serve over rice  
um well  
for two people um if it's american style i buy a half a pound if you know we if you're just serving that  
but if you're serving another dish with it say the rice dish   um well with guys pretty healthy [appetites] i'd probably go a third of a pound  
and then you know you could  
and you can always you can always heat it up again and save you know  
yeah  
you can also do the same thing using um if you have ground beef  
just stir fry the ground beef  
drain off the oil  
use the same hoi sin sauce and some of the frozen mixed vegetables  
just stir that in  
and you've got a very colorful side another dish  
um the hoi sin sauce  
oh a dollar twenty nine a can  
a can would serve you for for you know for quite a few um meals you know  
oh no  
no  
no  
no  
no  
it's not expensive at all  
it's one of the chinese cooking basics  
yeah  
well listen it was good talking with you  
hope you enjoy your recipe  
okay  
bye bye  
all right  
mine well  
yeah  
well we got um a lot of uh european dishes  
we got we got what some people call the best beef in the world  
so it's uh [bishu]  
like every sunday you go out  
and you buy all these parts of the cow  
and then you just cook them over a grill  
that's  
like in our house it's already built in  
there's this whole special place in the back  
so you can make a barbecue  
yeah  
yeah  
and then  
well they have one in uh they have an [argentinean] place down in georgetown  
so  
um  
excuse me  
oh no  
well see the problem is i'm only twenty two  
but like like when i'm down at home  
and like somebody says okay when are when are we having this you know  
and i'll cook it  
you know like you have to prepare the fire and then put the sausages on  
and then you know you put all these different meats which take different times  
no  
but what happens is in argentina they have like all these little places   like the fruit stand and you know the dairy and products and whatever  
and so  
and so they got they got the meat place  
and so you just go there  
and you can't find chicken there  
you got to go to another place to find the chicken  
well basically it's what we call it [impenadas]   which is which is like  
right  
meat [turnovers]  
and then we also put sausages on a [bun]  
and then that's that's to start out with  
and then what you have is also like you know like three different kinds of salad  
and uh that's about it  
uh no  
oh okay  
yeah  
no  
we were only there for two years  
yeah  
and uh what i what i also eat now since i graduate  
i have an italian roommate  
and  
are you  
and since being [argentinean] we also have a lot of pasta  
and you know  
yeah  
and my mom you know like makes   like what we call [niokes] and   all this stuff that it's just you know everything like lasagna and everything  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
at one point one third of the population of argentina was italian   like pure italians  
okay  
okay  
right  
right   yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
okay  
okay  
is it  
because i was at you know  
it's like when you when you go buy fish you know  
well like i buy like the fish  
so you can do it in the microwave   the [breaded] fish  
and yeah  
i've seen you know the filet  
what kind of fish  
okay  
so we put soy sauce and sesame  
okay  
okay  
okay  
because i got i got um one of those little uh microwaves  
the ones that take forever to boil a cup of water  
yeah  
no  
i don't  
wait wait wait h  
h o i  
s i n  
okay  
okay  
okay  
uh how much uh how much pork do you buy   for two people  
right  
yeah  
i could probably go half a pound  
so it's just it's just since i'm from argentina i just love meat  
and we  
okay  
okay  
and how much does it cost  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
okay  
i thought it was maybe like you know like five fifty or something  
oh okay  
same here  
all right  
thank you  
bye bye  
well what would you have at a dinner party  
uh_huh  
oh gosh   that sounds great  
uh_huh  
well um i think it would probably depend on whether this was a formal or a informal dinner party  
but if it was informal my first choice would be crawfish  
because i mean crawfish everybody over here likes crawfish  
but   you know i i wouldn't have to worry about satisfying my guest  
but if it was a formal dinner party i would probably think of something else like uh  
shrimp shrimp [fettucini] is real easy   to um make and everything  
and it's usually well liked by people i guess  
i'm just a seafood fan  
so   i think on the lines of  
oh yeah  
um you're not supposed to i mean you're not supposed to eat them dead  
i mean   well you eat them dead  
but  
right  
because if if they are dead for too long  
you can always tell whenever they're cooked if they've been dead for a long time because their tail [straightens] out  
and you're not supposed to eat those because they're bad for you  
yeah  
so if you ever go in a restaurant order crawfish  
i mean every once in a while you'll see  
i mean it doesn't happen very often because it's just an accident  
but if the tail is straight on it then yeah   don't eat it  
but um you just put some cajun well lots of pepper  
and you just boil them  
and they're absolutely wonderful  
but there's uh they're a pain to peel for some people  
once you get used to it they're real easy  
but um you know if you have nails or anything you can plan on those being shot  
i think for a dinner party  
i i don't know  
it depends  
like if like my age if there was a bunch of college kids coming over for a dinner party no i they would shell their own  
you know we'd just have crawfish and beer or something  
but um if it was more formal like if i was you know working environment then i would probably um shell them or at least [disconnect] them from the head  
but there's a   there's a big thing over here that everybody sucks the head  
so um   it it would just   depend  
that's the best part of the crawfish  
[sucking] the head  
but um i don't know  
it it just depends on what type it was i guess  
but you can buy uh the crawfish shells already peeled and everything  
and usually you use those like for frying   or to put in salads or to um you know make a sauce with or something like that  
but you can go ahead and buy them cooked and [shelled]  
and they're more expensive of course  
but  
um yeah  
it really does   i like shrimp better  
just um the crawfish i mean it just has a taste of its own  
it also depends on who's cooking it and how much seasoning they use   stuff like that  
but um i think that  
and also to get totally off the subject of crawfish lots of vegetables and hors d'oeuvres and stuff like that for a dinner party i think that that really helps  
that's what i need  
uh_huh  
oh  
i bet  
that that got pretty competitive   you know as   far as   who   could come   up   with the best recipe  
that   would be fun  
uh-huh  
sometimes it might be the [candlelight]  
and sometimes it might be the picnic out back   or something  
well   that's you know that's fun  
uh_huh  
that sounds right i   would i'd take him up on that  
uh_huh  
i'd   be  
i that's about how much i can cook   you know  
i'm i'm doing a lot more cooking now than i used to  
but that's only because my mom just started working  
so she's tired when she comes home in the afternoon  
so i try to have things cooked for her  
but   uh um i usually try to stay out of kitchen  
i don't know  
not one of my favorite hobbies  
well um   my grandma speaking   of those meatballs again she owned every christmas and and easter  
whenever we have at the big get together over at her house she makes this meat ball sauce  
and it has  
i don't know  
they are just kind of like quarter size meatballs  
and   they are absolutely delicious  
i don't know what she calls them in  
i don't i'm sure she puts wine in it because um she cooks everything with alcohol  
but  
um  
i don't know  
i would i would be interested in getting that recipe for you if you have it around  
oh  
yeah  
oh  
that would be wonderful  
yeah  
um hum  
oh  
um hum  
well um how long do you cook the meatballs  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
hum  
that sounds great  
especially i mean the fact that you can prepare the meatballs so so far in advance  
i mean like if if   you are having a dinner party on wednesday night you could do it on a weekend  
that would be great  
i think i'm going to have to keep that in mind for my future because i   hope to have to have lots of dinner parties   cause i like to  
i mean um um i'm sure that i'll be involved in a big company  
and i know that my future husband will be you know  
he's going to be working for [chevron]   in houston  
so he's going to be  
um you know i'm sure that dinner parties will   come in handy  
oh yeah  
i have   to impress the boss   and clients cause um i'm in i'm in public relations in school  
so i'm going to have you know my whole job's going to be based on my clients and stuff like that  
so   i'm going to have lots of dinner parties  
and have to take them out to eat  
right now i'm taking a class on [ettiquesy]  
and   all the little   bitty things that i didn't even know  
i   mean i thought for sure i'd been raised properly  
but i've been doing a lot of things wrong i didn't know   about  
but um so is there anything else  
oh  
yes  
you need to try em  
oh they're wonderful  
well uh lately since i have children i've cut down on having dinner parties  
but when i do i try to keep it pretty simple on things that i can prepare ahead of time  
uh i have one recipe for uh a really good um type of a [meatball]  
it's called burgundy [meatball]  
and it's made with red wine and  
um  
it's it's really good  
and you can make it ahead of time and then um make the sauce when you're ready to um to serve it  
that's one of my favorite things to to serve  
sure  
oh really  
well i guess being from that part of the country  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well how do   make how do you you cook crawfish  
i in fact i just came back from the grocery store  
and being in texas we don't have too many you know people that that eat crawfish  
but they had live crawfish   on sale  
uh_huh  
don't buy them that way  
uh_huh  
okay  
well i'll remember that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh when you were um when you serve it do you shell them and then serve em too  
um hum  
sure  
still have see that   ooh  
um hum  
does it taste a lot like shrimp  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
we have a a friend another couple where the husband is the one who cooks   all the time  
and  
yeah  
that's what i wish i had  
but in our family i am the one who who cooks  
and i i really enjoy it  
it's gotten a little more difficult with kids  
but i really do enjoy cooking  
and we um we have them over for dinner   back and forth quite a lot  
and before i had my second child we sort of had a contest going where     you know he would cook and then the next time it would be my turn and i'd try to outdo him   and then he'd try to outdo   me  
and we we  
was really a lot of fun  
and  
yeah  
it did  
we we   tried   to   be   fancier or more courses than the other  
or  
uh it was a lot of fun you know  
it something unique you know  
and then we got into different um themes you know um whether it would be ethnic food   or um sometimes it would be um oh oh i don't know maybe an outdoor theme or uh elegant theme or you know  
it was a lot of fun  
that's   right  
it was fun  
and and we threatened to make the other two uh make us dinner one time   uh just to even it out since we seemed to be [unfairly] doing all the cooking   and they were doing all the enjoying  
i'm  
it does  
except that knowing them they would probably do something   ridiculous and terrible just   just to uh make sure that they didn't have to do it again  
make hot   dogs or   some potato chips  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
it can it can be fun i if you have the time  
but you know a lot of times it's too much of a rush really be able to enjoy it   able   to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's um it's in the other room  
i don't know if we   have enough time for it  
it's real easy  
one of the unique things in this it's like a pound of ground beef some bread crumbs um an egg um whatever seasonings  
you can just light  
so salt and pepper um and chopped up water [chestnuts]   which is something different um  
makes them a little bit crunchy  
you need to chop em up real fine  
but um it makes them crunchy  
and that adds something new to it  
and then the sauce is just made with um [bouillion] cubes   water burgundy wine and um cornstarch instead of flour  
so it's not a it's not a thick rich type of a sauce  
it's more of a  
when you use corn starch in in gravy like you know when you have um chinese food   that kind of a gravy or a sauce that comes with a lot of that they use corn starch instead of flour in all of their sauces and [gravies]  
and it gives it a bit of a different consistency  
the meatballs you just um after you form them fry them in a pan until   they're uh [browned] on all all sides  
and then drain off all the grease  
uh then what i usually do is i freeze them  
and then when   you're ready   to serve   them then you cook the sauce and then put the meatballs into the sauce and heat it  
probably you have to heat it up for a good oh  
if they're frozen you know it may take a half for them to thaw out  
but then heat them thoroughly in the sauce itself  
let them simmer in the sauce itself  
and it's real good  
right  
and then freeze them  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you'll   meet friends  
invite invite the boss over   and   and   friends at work  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh  
really  
well i i think we've covered the subject  
i got some interesting information about crawfish  
i was in fact  
it's good cause i was curious about that today when i saw those for   sale  
oh i will  
i'm sure my husband will be surprised because we were talking about them the other day before  
perhaps this connection  
no  
it still echoes  
okay um  
i love it  
uh  
do you work  
and have a family  
oh  
i expect so  
uh well for a dinner party i think one of my favorite things is baked chicken and white wine  
oh  
um i guess mostly out of an international cookbook that i have  
oh  
they have a t i plant in texas in [kingsport]  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
great  
what is uh is a [marsala] wine a [sweeter] wine  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
huh  
oh  
oh so it kind of browns  
and then you put wine over it  
uh_huh  
that sounds real good  
yeah  
what do you serve with it  
what do you serve with it  
uh_huh  
that's what i do too  
uh_huh  
that's what i've got  
i've got steamed broccoli down on mine  
no  
it's great  
i've got a good dessert recipe  
uh do you like angel food cake  
i just break it up in a glass bowl  
and then i mix up uh some cream cheese and a little bit of [amaretta] and some cool whip  
and i make a [thickened] blueberry sauce  
and i layer it with uh angel food cake and the blueberries and then that topping  
it is it's great  
uh_huh  
right  
i know i know what you mean  
we don't eat desserts much any more  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh and pour that over it  
that sounds great  
it would be pretty  
right  
yeah  
right  
that would be pretty  
we've been fixing something lately that well  
we've been cooking a lot of   turkey breasts   because it's low fat  
and i've been making a hot sandwich  
i [toast] a piece of whole wheat bread   and then put the turkey on it and then slices of the low fat swiss cheese  
and then i make a little honey mustard dressing and put over it   and pop it in the microwave  
it is delicious  
i wouldn't mind serving that to anybody  
no  
yeah  
it's real quick  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well  
mix up a little uh mayonnaise with some [dijon] mustard   and honey until it just  
i mix it until it just tastes good to me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and it's real good  
and it keeps in the refrigerator  
oh it keeps a long time  
no  
uh_huh  
it keeps a long time  
oh  
and i put a little um oh yogurt in it too  
if i  
just plain yogurt  
it gives it a little tang  
it makes a great sandwich  
oh are you  
oh yeah  
that's kind of hard  
they'll eat fish  
she'll eat fish  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that sounds good  
right  
i had a recipe from that um international cookbook two that's a great salad in summertime  
do you do you garden or not  
okay  
it's just sliced tomatoes  
and i put it on a glass plate because it looks real pretty   sliced tomatoes and then green pepper strips   just over it   and some red onion slices   and just a little bit of um basil   and then a little italian dressing over it  
and everybody loves it  
and it's so easy  
and it's delicious  
huh_uh  
it isn't  
and you can put some [cucumber] slices on too  
i got it at the checkbook store  
and it's got all these beautiful pictures   in there that are inspiring  
it's going to say uh edited by charlotte [turgeon] editor of  
i'm not french [laroute]   [gastro] [lamink]  
the creative cooking course  
i'm trying to see who it's published by [ottenheimer]  
i've never heard of it  
this edition is published by [bonanza] books  
it's a big book  
but it was not expensive  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh   we do too  
yeah  
that's right  
i don't think it would  
uh_huh  
i stir fried some the other night though  
some uh beef and broccoli strips  
it was good  
but it didn't have much beef in it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it just takes the time to cut everything up  
cook  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
one of my daughters sent me a colorado cook book put out by the junior league of denver  
have you ever seen any put out by junior leagues  
they are great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
they are good usually good aren't they  
oh is that right  
what was that  
uh_huh  
you buy the canned baked canned baked beans  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds  
uh_huh  
that sounds good  
right  
uh_huh  
jot them down huh  
do you like to cook  
i do too  
it it's kind of hard to find time sometimes  
but  
yes  
uh i don't have a family  
but i i usually work about fifty hours a week  
and   by the time i get home i'm so tired it's hard to cook a full meal  
that's that's really weird that you said that because for a dinner party mine is is a is a chicken in a [marsala] wine sauce  
so where did you get your recipe for it  
oh okay  
well mine actually came from the um texas instruments cafeteria  
they they  
yeah  
we have  
it's in johnson city  
and um the cafeteria is real good about putting out recipes you know like once a month  
they'll put out a recipe of the month  
and they they put this one out  
and i tried it  
and it was really good  
yeah  
a little bit [sweeter]  
and it uh it's a it's a red wine  
and uh i'm trying to think what else  
i i roll it in bread crumbs and uh parmesan cheese  
and then i rub it with a little bit i rub the chicken with a little bit of oil   and pour the wine sauce over it as like the last twenty minutes   so that it gets just enough flavor  
right  
and it's really easy too  
so  
what do you use  
huh  
i like to serve um a wild rice with it  
this is really neat  
and i  
we're big broccoli fans  
well i just i just don't think you can go wrong with something like that  
oh what  
yes  
uh_huh  
wow  
what time should we be there  
that sounds wonderful  
i love desserts  
but since there's only two of us   it's really  
i i try to avoid making anything that too fancy that   we'd like too much and eat too much  
but i i guess one that that i really like that i haven't made in awhile  
and it's it's called a fruit pizza  
and you take a uh sugar cookie uh recipe   and and spread it out on a pizza pan  
so you make it like a pizza crust  
and then you you bake that  
and then you um take things like [kiwi]   and strawberries and bananas and whatever fresh fruit you want  
and you mix that with um excuse me you use cream cheese and a little bit of orange juice  
and i can't remember what else is in it  
and you make kind of a glaze  
and then you layer your fresh fruit on that  
yeah  
it is really good  
and it   it's real light  
and it  
depending on the fruit you use it's you know it's real colorful  
especially with like the [kiwi] and the strawberries  
so but usually i just opt for brownies and vanilla ice cream  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's just so much better for you  
uh_huh  
oh  
that sounds great  
no  
and that's that's something that just you know it doesn't take a long time to fix  
it's really good  
and it's really good for you  
and we eat out a lot  
and there are sometimes you just don't feel like eating out  
and i wish i had something a little bit different   to just [zap] together  
uh_huh  
i was going to say do you just mix it to taste  
okay  
how long does it keep  
do you well  
you wouldn't have to make  
yeah  
and you wouldn't have to mix that much together even  
i'm sorry i keep coughing  
i've had a bad cold  
plain  
plain yogurt  
i'll bet that is really good  
man  
i'm going to have to think of that  
we're getting company tonight  
and i have been debating what to cook because one of my guests is a vegetarian  
so we're going to  
i think we'll try to do something a little bit  
we might try to to um to grill some flounder or salmon steaks  
yeah  
and i usually  
when they come down i'll grill those   and brush on a little lemon butter sauce  
and um definitely go with it will have to be a rice dish   lots of vegetables   to make up for the lack of meat  
no  
we don't  
our next door neighbors do  
and some a lot of times they'll give us something  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
that's what i was just thinking  
it doesn't sound like it it would be hard at all  
where did you get  
where did you get this cook book  
really  
i'll might have to visit the state book store  
i haven't either  
okay  
well the ones that i've been i've been wanting to get um  
i guess you've seen the three hundred sixty five ways to cook chicken   and the three hundred sixty five ways to cook pasta  
i've been i've been wanting to get those because we eat a lot of chicken  
and we do eat a lot of pasta  
so we we just said the other night it wouldn't be too difficult to be to do without red meat  
you know we don't have that much of it now  
as long as we have plenty of vegetables   and lots of chicken  
yeah  
i've got a i've got a wok that we don't use near as often as we used to  
we used to stir fry a lot especially um a lot of chicken and and a lot of rice dishes  
yeah  
but usually if i'm if i'm if i take a day off or on the weekend especially i try to cook   real real food  
and at least cook a couple of dishes ahead  
so that we can have those to enjoy  
so  
uh_huh  
yes  
cause we have some   some local ones  
and we have a share alike column in the paper   where people you know write in and share recipes or write in and say i'm looking for this recipe  
and that's where i get a lot of my recipes  
yes  
and i got i got a real good one from a doctor's office one time  
it's uh it's a baked bean recipe  
and you mix baked beans and [lima] beans  
and uh let's see i guess  
yeah  
just mix the canned beans together   and brown sugar and [molasses] and bake them in [catsup] you know  
and and you just bake it  
and it's just it's like a a [spicier] baked bean dish  
and you can add hamburger if you want   to give it a little more body  
so i i try to always keep my eyes open and because a lot of time you can find find really good recipes where you wouldn't even think about it  
so i try to always keep a little notebook in my purse  
but it's been  
okay  
you can go first  
or i will  
okay  
well i'm going to tell you what i'd have  
down in the south we have a lot of shrimp   okay  
and i have uh shrimp that is steamed in beer that   i cook  
and then i have a cauliflower that i would cook garlic bread green salad tea  
and we'd have a lemon pie for dessert  
yes  
and what's really neat about it is the shrimp is cooked in your uh like your rice steamer   your rice cooker  
and um you place the shrimp in the in the rice steamer  
and you put a bay leaf and put some uh red pepper over it  
now you can either use you know the kind that comes in the little can  
or you can just get some you know regular red peppers  
cayenne  
uh_huh  
and you put a little bit of that over it  
now if you use the dried kind   then you would only use two of them  
and you put that in there  
and then you pour two bottles of beer over it  
two pounds  
that's the jumbo shrimp in the shells  
leave the shells on them so they won't just roll up  
and you pour the beer over the top of it  
and you cover it  
and you only cook it until the mixture begins to boil   and the shrimp turn pink  
then you remove it  
and you put it on a platter  
and then you serve it with melted butter  
and uh i usually put garlic powder in mine  
and they can just dip it  
and they shell it as they eat it  
but uh then the uh the cauliflower you   cook that in the microwave  
and what you do is you just uh wash it  
and you core it   and in a like a oh what do you call it like [pyrex] or something like that kind   of bowl that would go in the microwave  
uh_huh  
but it's got to have one that has a cover on it  
and you uh put about two tablespoons of uh water into this bowl and about an eighth a teaspoon of salt  
and then you just set your cauliflower in there  
and then you cook it for seven minutes on high  
and you rotate it one time  
uh_huh  
uh when you core it you be real careful so you won't knock your flowers off  
and uh you just set it in there  
and you microwave it on high for seven minutes  
and you turn it one time  
and while that's cooking i take mayonnaise about a cup of mayonnaise and a teaspoon of mustard and some garlic powder  
and i mix it all together  
and i shred up some just regular white cheese  
and after that's cooked you take it out and pour this on top of it  
and then you sprinkle the cheese on top of that  
and you cook it for another three minutes on high you know   just mainly to melt the cheese and everything and let all the seasoning melt into it  
and   it's done  
it is good  
but it it looks  
i mean what you can do then see is like what i usually do is i'll like sit the cauliflower in the middle  
and then i put the uh shrimp around the outside of it   you know on my platter  
and then i have a green salad that i put around the outside of that  
and you know you have all the different seasonings and stuff  
and then i just fix little individual cups for them  
and they have the   garlic bread  
and it makes it a real nice looking   you know  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
but it   looks like it you know  
you look like you went to a whole bunch  
right  
and uh usually i cut those little cherry tomatoes up   and put some color into it you know  
and i'll lay those on top of my salad you know to make it look nice and things like that  
okay  
uh it usually serves six  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
have you ever had crawfish  
oh you ought to try some crawfish  
they are good  
but see that's one good thing about living down here is usually anybody that comes over you know even if it's like out of town guests and stuff they want our cooking  
you know   they want it from down here  
because just like now especially crawfish it is starting to move out you know  
and more and more people are beginning to find out how good it is  
but  
uh it's similar  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's not   exactly  
i mean it's got a taste of its own you know  
but it is   it is similar to because you only eat the   tails of it  
um it looks more like a crab  
uh_huh  
but  
no  
um let me think of i can't even think of what you  
i guess if it uh it looks like more like a cross between uh a crab and uh and a lobster  
because it's small like that  
and it's got the [pinchers] like a crab  
but   you know it's it's similar to a lobster too because the tail has got the little pleats in it like a   lobster would  
and we call them mud bugs  
but i mean they're fantastic tasting  
they are so good  
everybody  
it's it's the season for them right now  
louisiana  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
you know  
you buy it you buy it as a seasoning  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
i cook mine well do you have a uh like a black iron skillet  
oh okay  
well   i guess you could cook it in in that too  
but i don't know  
you know i never have  
i use uh uh the black iron skillet to cook mine  
uh_huh  
but it really it's not it it it doesn't burn or anything like that  
the blackening is really the seasoning  
i mean there is   it's it's   a blackening seasoning  
you know i mean that is a seasoning  
that's really it's not like you would have to cook it for an extreme amount of time or something like that to get it  
because it's called uh what it's called is blackening magic  
and it it comes in a bottle  
and uh   well i'm trying to see  
it's got a a picture of [dom] de [luise] on it  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you do have to have it you know you do have to have it hot when you cook it i mean   your pan  
it does have to be really hot you know when you put it in  
but it's not like it's burned  
and it what it what [blackens] it is the seasoning  
and it is so good  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well have you ever thought about coming to louisiana you know to visit  
yeah  
you ought   to come down  
um you don't even have to go all the way to new orleans you know if you want to really get some good food  
i mean you don't have to go that far south  
but uh of course the further south you go the better the food is as far as i'm concerned  
and fact is we're going to take a vacation this year  
we're going to go to new orleans again  
and uh we're only going down there for the food though  
uh yeah  
we go to the the french quarters and stuff like that  
and uh i have some friends that live down there  
and so usually we go to we don't go to the tourist ones  
we go to the ones that they tell us to go to you know  
and we went to this one  
it was called the back porch  
and uh they were cooking the stuff you know while we were we went on this boat ride  
and then we came back and ate out on this it was like a back porch  
and uh   usually if you can find somebody  
of course now when you go down there you know i mean they've got just  
there's no where you can miss  
i have never gone to a restaurant and not just been so full  
it's unreal  
i mean it's so good  
the seasoning they it's just unreal  
gumbo  
no gumbo  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
you can even make it with chicken or you can make it with seafood  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i'll tell you what  
do you want to go first  
well you go ahead  
oh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh it sounds fantastic  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is it cayenne pepper you mean  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
and how much shrimp would you use  
two pounds  
okay  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a glass dish  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and it's are you cooking the whole head   at one time  
okay  
i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that sounds fantastic  
um um  
uh_huh  
sure  
and it's   not much work  
that sounds  
yeah  

i bet it tastes good too  
oh yeah  
now how many could you serve  
yeah  
okay  
i figured about that  
oh that's good  
see out here we have so many uh ethnic people  
we have italians  
and we have portuguese  
and we have russians and polish  
and it depends out here like the type of people you're going to entertain you know  
so it's hard uh  
you you just have to pick something for the the group that you're going to entertain for that particular time  
and uh they're big on finger food here too you know chicken wings and uh ribs and that kind of stuff   uh barbecue and uh cooking out in the yard it you know when it's nice barbecue outside chicken and that kind of stuff  
uh no  
but i have had shrimp  
oh of course  
that's  
yeah  
really  
is it like shrimp  
it's similar  

oh it does  
does   it look like a lobster  
oh it looks more like a crab  
oh  
are they thin long   or wide  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yep  
oh  
and and where did you say you were from  
louisiana  
oh well do you do cajun cooking  
oh i love uh blackened you know uh the the fish and the chicken and that kind of stuff  
oh we have a few places up here that do that  
and if ever i see it on the menu i always get it  
it is so good  
now how do they do the blackened  
but uh do you have to have a certain skillet   or something  
no  
i did have  
i don't have it now  
but i have mostly teflon  
you now  
but  
does it have to get extremely hot  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh oh   i see  
yeah  
oh i see  
oh  
oh really  
oh  
now would you would cook it for the same amount of time as you would prepare it any other time  
is that what you're saying  
oh uh_huh  
because   i could have the uh chicken on the [skewers] with uh uh blackened seasoning  
and oh that is so good delicious  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
it is  
i i love it  
i i in fact i was in texas for a little while  
and i liked uh the barbecues and the mexican food  
i have a passion for all that type of different tastes  
because i have been brought up mostly italian american food  
because my uh parents are italian and portuguese  
so we cook a lot of pasta and uh [gravies] and pizzas and you know [roasts] and that kind of thing  
that's why i enjoy going to restaurants and have you know trying different things  
i would love to  
i  
really  
uh_huh  
is that right  
uh_huh  
now where do you go when you go there uh right on basin street and those places  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh i see  
oh that's nice  
uh_huh  
really  
and don't they make a lot of um  
i'm trying to think what they call their soup  
i don't know  
yeah  
jumbo  
gumbo  
right  
is is is that with seafood  
oh you can  
that looks good too  
i've seen them the [chefs] on t v do that  
and oh it looks delicious  
see we do um uh a thing we call it a sea bake  
you uh you take clams  
okay  
so do you do a lot of cooking in your family  
oh yeah  
yeah  
do do you like to cook  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
but that's neat though because you get to have different stuff  
yeah  
i'm not i'm a pretty bad cook  
i'm pretty bad  
my husband is really good  
he put himself through college working in restaurants  
and uh he's much better cook than i am  
so when i was home i still cooked a lot  
and i was in to a lot of vegetarian stuff  
and now i went back to work about a year and a half ago  
so one of the things that he took over was the cooking  
and the kids are thrilled  
they're really happy that i don't cook anymore  
yeah  
they say oh dad let dad cook mom  
let him do it  
but um so so do you all do you have kids  
you obviously have one  
okay  
you have two  
two and half oh  
i was just going to say makes a difference in what you eat doesn't it  
or are you not at that stage yet  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
oh my gosh  
oh my gosh  
i couldn't  
yeah  
boy i couldn't do that  
i  
what's that  
oh really  
oh yeah  
what's what is that saint jack or something  
scallops saint something  
or yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
with scallops  
no  
no  
i'm from new england  
so we we had um a lot of seafood before we moved down here  
and uh that sounds delicious to me  
that sounds great  
i think we're just thinking of having a uh dinner party  
we went to this dinner party the other night that was kind of like a game  
they had uh a murder mystery  
and you came dressed as one of the characters  
and you had to solve the mystery during the dinner  
and it was really fun  
and so we we were thinking we wanted to do you know we were going to try doing it ourselves  
but we're trying to decide what can we serve because at this one the [hostess] was pretty busy running around trying to get stuff ready for the table  
and that kind of interrupted the game  
so   so i was thinking there's this beef [bourguignonne] recipe that i've tried before that's pretty good  
and then you can make that ahead  
and you can just leave it in the pot on a stove until you're ready  
so that's uh  
yeah  
uh yeah  
oh yeah  
i know  
my husband did too  
his parents are [austrian]  
and they uh always made sure they had a lot of meat at the table  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh my gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh gosh  
so do you  
oh they did the  
that you do  
right  
right  
that's just part of it  
yeah  
we didn't my family didn't  
but when i got into the vegetarian cooking we got kind of used to that  
but my husband always did it kind of [grudgingly]  
he never  
there was dishes that he really enjoyed eating  
there were several things that he liked  
but it never was really something that he would have chosen  
it's just that i cooked  
so he had to put up with it  
so but there was one thing that he couldn't stand  
and that was [soybeans]  
i tried it like once or twice  
and he just could not eat it  
so i never  
i had  
i was limited  
i had to make vegetarian meals without using soy beans  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
some of the stuff is good  
but it just it was a tremendous amount of cooking  
because you do have to make sure you have the right combinations of different [proteins] to make sure they're complete  
and we had little kids at the time you know  
when i was home with them and it it was just so much cooking  
i couldn't i don't like to cook  
and i'm not really that great at it  
so it just turned out to be too much of a too much too much cooking  
so well i guess i'll let you get back to feeding your little one there  
he's set  
oh okay  
okay  
do you like to bake at all  
or do you do you get into that's that  
yeah  
really  
no kidding  
yeah  
then be gone  
i know  
that's the thing about baking  
i used to i i don't mind baking at all  
and i i can do a pretty good pie  
we have this pie crust recipe in our family that my grandmother gave my mother  
and my mother taught me how to make it  
and um so i can make a pretty mean pie  
but um i don't do it anymore because it's just too fattening  
we had the same kind of problem  
if you make homemade bread  
i mean it's supposed to save you money  
but you eat like three times the amount of bread that you usually eat  
it tastes so good  
oh uh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i've heard of that i've heard of it  
but i've never done it  
that sounds pretty good  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
and then you you make the bread  
but you [pinch] off a portion or save a portion of it for the next time or something  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know it sounds it always sounded  
i don't know how safe that was  
yeah  
that's true  
that's that's got to kill anything i guess  
but  
all right  
well yeah  
thanks  
plano  
yeah  
plano in texas  
are you in texas  
no kidding  
gosh it sounds so close  
yeah  
i thought for sure i thought for sure you were in dallas or something  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
they're they're trying to get all different amount of people  
well gee my husband is from richmond  
and i went to u v a  
that's where we went  
yeah  
yeah  
oh you did  
yeah  
yeah  
boy we'd like to get back over to the east coast  
i'll tell you  
it's nice over there  
oh really  
oh yeah  
no kidding  
well things are doing pretty good down here  
we we were we tried to move over to raleigh last year  
and there just was there was so little such little going on in raleigh you know  
you couldn't get a job to save yourself over there  
so we decided we'll try in a couple of years  
but but business is  
yeah  
you probably could you probably could  
okay  
well it's good talking to you  
take care  
bye  
um i do some every now and then  
i i work  
and my wife's home during the day  
so she usually ends up doing most of it  
when i was single we used to always cook around the house  
huh yeah  
i really like it  
um there's a few dishes  
like i i grew up with the um you know having polish and [ukrainian] food  
and my wife she likes italian and stuff  
so we we definitely have different tastes  
so  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
uh they're like uh [preferring] it now right  
yeah  
two  
uh_huh  
yeah  
one is uh nine months  
and the other is two and a half  
yeah  
that's the hard part is cooking with uh kids around because uh  
yeah  
it does  
we try our hardest to get them to eat what we eat you know  
and my sister uh she's the master of the fast order grill you know  
she can make uh she makes six different meals  
but  
like to have one thing you know  
one likes chicken nuggets the other one like hot dogs  
and then she makes noodles with uh with   soy sauce or whatever  
so all things  
but um yeah  
our favorite  
let me think  
i was thinking of the one recipe that uh that we made  
i guess the thing that always turned out the best for us was something we thought looked really fancy but was real easy  
and that was um   uh scallops uh [scallop] um  
it has a french name  
it basically means that it has a swiss cheese cream sauce with it  
and you pour it over rice  
yeah uh  
yeah  
i can't even remember what the [recipe's] name is anymore  
but uh it was basically just ground up swiss cheese and then uh standard cream sauce base and then uh   the scallops  
an and it sounds sort of funny  
but it tastes really good  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's another thing  
i have a problem with my wife  
she uh she likes to um she doesn't like the beef dishes  
she likes the chicken and fish  
and like i said we always ate beef and uh pork   you know a lot  
so  
oh yeah  
red meat plenty of good red meat  
my dad could eat a a meal with out any vegetables at all  
and uh [susan's] you know they had you know [meatless] meals you know  
my dad wouldn't know what to do  
course she grew up catholic  
so you know they   they sort of come with the  
there's a certain amount of [meatless] meals you have to have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it's hard to get a protein content up then  
yeah  
i like i like them every now and then for a change  
it's nice  
uh_huh  
no uh  
he's all done  
yeah  
yeah  
i set him down  
yeah  
we used to do that um  
my mom used to go crazy every sunday until my dad like blew up you know  
after he gained about eighty pounds after coming back from the navy she stopped doing it  
but um she used to have you know two dozen sticky [buns] three bread rolls you know every week  
and um the sticky [buns] of course would last you know three or four days  
and that would be it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we always we had that bread that was uh um  
you ever seen the the starter bread  
i can't remember what it's called  
they call it the um amish bread here  
but  
uh it's made with  
you just leave it out  
you know and you let it spoil sort of  
you know yeah  
yeah  
it tasted pretty good really  
but uh it's the sort of thing where you let a portion of it go bad  
and then you add all these other ingredients to it  
but  
yeah  
right  
you take some of the [batter] out and give it to someone else  
and that's how they continue the thing  
yeah  
i know it sounded strange to me too  
i figure well you're baking it  
so you know yeah  
okay  
well i'll talk to you later  
where are you calling from by the way texas  
where  
plano  
okay  
no  
falls church virginia  
yeah  
i know we've got a good connection  
must be a uh t i connection  
yeah  
yeah  
i i talked to so many people from texas  
that's where practically everybody i talked to is from  
i think that's why they call me because they want to get people outside the state you know  
oh oh really  
yeah  
i went to school at uh well i went to school at west virginia university  
but i grew up right here in falls church right outside d c  
yeah  
it's sort of funny  
i have people that want to go to dallas  
yeah  
one of my one of my friends here he was just talking how he's thinking of leaving the company and going to dallas  
saying how  
yeah  
yeah  
we were saying we could sell our house here and buy one down there cash you know  
well northern virginia  
okay  
nice talking to you too  
bye bye  
okay  
where where are you from  
oh okay  
because i uh i talked to a professor in uh what was it north carolina who got the the t i system  
and he gave to all his students  
so my daughter's even talked to  
and i've talked to several people from north carolina  
i was just curious  
have you   too  
yeah  
i talked to the professor  
and i asked him about it  
and he said oh he says i think i'm the guy that actually uh gave it to all my students  
so that's why so many people are from this college  
go   ahead  
you you first eve  
food  
oh great  
yeah  
we have them too  
and i i'm trying to think which is the best uh that i prefer  
uh my wife uh doesn't like to have all that work on the very day that you're doing it uh  
and we haven't catered out very much uh  
we i always worry about the barbecue in that you have to be  
the man always gets that chore  
and you   have to make it perfect  
uh i've made shish kabob which i like  
it's fairly easy and fast  
uh  
i guess i'm thinking of the easy thing to do   for for having uh uh dinner  
i do cook  
but not  
i'm mostly the easy cooker  
you know the [breakfasts] and   and the steaks uh  
although i would like to experiment with uh the meals my mother made you know   so to speak  
and i haven't gotten around to that yet uh  
well she was polish  
and uh she would make very economical meals  
we were very poor  
different rice and ham and things that uh  
she would throw things together   and [galunkies] and all that  
and uh i would like to try that one day  
and she would make spaghetti with pork chops and and special meat balls and everything  
and my wife   of course thinks i'm crazy which i may be too  
but  
yeah  
but dinner parties are a lot of work uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that that  
shish kabob is uh just because it only takes a few minutes to cook you know  
you get it ready  
you have to do a lot of work beforehand i agree and buy special stuff  
but uh so far as getting out there and and putting it on it only takes a a few minutes uh  
but anyway i'm i'm thinking of the easy way rather than   my guests i guess  
but uh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
right  
you'd get the odor of it yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh great  
oh yes  
we probably ought to try this  
but it probably will never taste as good as we remembered  
i guess it gets better and better as we remember it   back as we get older you know  
but   we probably should try it uh to do that  
the recipes are really interesting you know  
we're probably going to lose them  
and we'll probably forget all about them you know  
since we're trying to make everything so  
here i am talk about trying to make everything easy you know  
i uh  
you talked about thanksgiving there are interesting meals at different times  
uh something  
my wife's from texas  
so uh i remember we were first married  
and we were living in new jersey  
and uh we were going over to my mother's house for christmas you know to have a meal  
and we were on the way over  
we were just married that very year  
and she said oh i'm looking forward to a nice turkey  
i said turkey  
i said we don't have turkey at christmas  
i said we only have turkey on thanksgiving  
i said we're going to have a ham  
she said what  
i said yeah  
i said no turkey is only for thanksgiving  
and because she had turkey a lot you know  
and uh that was surprising in the in the east uh  
we always had ham you know  

and and that's one thing  
that's another recipe i guess we could talk about  
now the hams just kind of you know go take it out of a can or uh uh a package sliced uh  
the cans were cooked for hours and hours and and   were just wonderful you know  
i i'd like to try that too  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i saw them  
that's good  
no  
i i uh i've i know about sam's  
my wife i think goes  
but  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh i haven't heard   of that yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i'll have to ask her about that   uh because we have a delivery guy that comes around that sells  
i'm trying to think of his name of it  
uh uh i don't know uh  
i see a can here or a box here of gourmet choice  
uh he delivers uh  
what is the name of this thing  
i got a box distributor marked on it  
it doesn't say gourmet choices  
but he  
but it's a company that has uh you know a truck that comes around  
and and they recently had hams  
they have steaks and   and uh actually [pirogies] and all that stuff that uh  
i i wish i could tell you the name of the company  
but i don't know what it is  
but uh they recently had a ham that was supposed to be  
it was boneless  
and we tried it  
it was real nice  
and it was fully cooked and everything  
we had it   for breakfast a long time  
it was really great  
yeah  
i would like to try the old recipe though of cooking it  
and and i keep saying this uh to to do the different things that we did  
but i would like to put one in the oven you know the old fashioned way and put it in there for hours and hours and see if  
because i don't think in in my married life which is uh twenty six years now we've never done that you know  
and i remember that when i was a kid uh   to have the ham cooking uh rather than that we just  
ham is just something you have for breakfast occasionally you know  
and that's it you know  
in the old days we had hams were the meal  
and i don't i don't think we   really have it as a main meal  
right  
that's an interesting point  
how how have you changed your your meals now  
have you  
into that uh  
looking at those things  
uh_huh  
parents that's unusual  
oh yeah  
that's amazing  
yeah  
well that's amazing  
they'd go  
that they have started  
usually it's the younger people doing it  
yeah  
i  
uh   my my wife's mother is the only [grandparent] left  
and uh   she has high cholesterol  
of course i i have too but not like hers  
and i always get after her about salt and everything else  
and she just will i mean she's going to eat the same way she ate you know   her whole life  
and she just tells more or less tells me to shut up you know  
and uh i like to  
i'm trying to do something about my cholesterol in the same way  
uh  
uh it's it's not the  
i listen to uh larry [newarth] on the weekend  
he's a fitness expert  
and uh he talks about you know the chicken and the rice   and everything else  
and and uh throwing away peanut butter and all the things   you know the things not to eat you know ever  
i think the peanut butter and mayonnaise he would throw away for ever  
and then he's got me into making eggs without the yolk  
you know try that sometime  
my wife says she can't stand it  
but uh when i make scrambled eggs now talking about a recipe  
i  
say if i have four eggs not not for me  
but if i'm making four eggs uh even for my daughter and i i'll take out all the [yolks] but one  
and and it's fine  
you you don't miss it uh  
in fact when i when i make eggs for myself if i if i fry them throw them in there i will almost hard fry them so i can take not eat the yolk at all  
and you don't really miss it  
you get the flavor of the yolk  
but uh you don't eat it at all you know  
you don't  
they're hard  
you get like uh a bite at at the most  
and so uh for cholesterol i mean i'm trying that  
and it has worked  
my cholesterol gone down twenty points  
so although  
i haven't gotten on the which whether butter or not cholesterol [margarine] and all that  
i don't know know whether any of that is true you know   whether the [margarines] or butter  
um just here in dallas  
uh_huh  
that's  
yes  
yes  
that's true  
i've   talked  
uh_huh  
people from virginia and and all over yeah  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
um well the subject we're supposed to be talking about let's see is uh food  
what type of foods do you cook  
and what would you uh cook in uh uh let's see if you were giving a dinner party  
and the only reason why i may know a little bit about this is that i'm planning on having a barbecue pretty soon  
and to me that's the type of thing that i like to give in um uh cooking for people  
and uh if he's cooking outside where it's cooler and uh you don't have to do all that much work you know you just uh slap on some food and slap on some barbecue sauce and away you go  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
what kind of meals did she make that you liked  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
no  
sounds interesting uh_huh  
yeah  
that's great  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh that's that's why i like the the outdoor stuff a   a lot better  
people can entertain themselves i think a great deal more uh when you have a barbecue especially when you have hot dogs and hamburgers and   uh you know nothing really fancy like your your shish [kabobs] where you have to do a whole bunch of work  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i think you do do a lot of work  
even if people do bring over things you still do uh all the uh   housework and get everything prepared and [utensils] and just just everything  
uh you know my mother used to make an [armenian] rice dish  
i'm thinking about uh special dishes  
and uh yeah  
it was made out of rice and consume soup uh and bacon and onions  
and then you'd simmer it like all day long  
oh it would  
yeah  
and it was just it was just wonderful  
that's that's something that i would really like to uh to try and find the recipe for  
but we used to have that at thanksgiving time   because you can you can put it on top of the stove and do this  
and and there's so much broth and juice in there   that it has to uh soak up into the rice all day long in order for it to uh uh to come out fluffy and and nice  
and that was you know  
when you were talking about the the polish dishes uh some [goulashes] and things like that  
that's uh that's what i thought about was that [armenian] rice dish  
that's true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you know what i found was at sam's uh wholesale   uh stores  
and uh what they have is this honey baked ham  
they  
have you seen have you had any of those  
if if you ever get a chance to buy one of those i think it was uh twenty dollars for uh i don't remember how many pounds it was  
but you cook it in the bag that they send it in  
and all the juices and everything are all sealed in  
and i tell you what it's never failed to come out tender and [juicy]   and just   and just delicious because i normally don't like ham because it's so salty  
but with this honey bake that they have that that's the only one i have been able to find there at sam's warehouse  
it is absolutely delicious  
and it slices great uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
you know that sounds like it  
but that's that's the only ham i have found that i thoroughly thoroughly enjoy  
wow  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's true  
i i don't think so anymore not with more becoming more conscious of uh fat and cholesterol and and all those   good things  
oh yeah  
well my parents actually started it  
and uh getting  
well it it's true  
i think my parents are very unusual because uh we grew up in the south where uh you have all the uh you know biscuits and gravy   and oh fried foods [galore]  
and then gradually they started switching over to uh plain rice uh no gravy  
it's just it really is  
they uh they're actually they actually uh uh led us through it versus uh us teaching them you know the uh the [finer] points  
but my mother has really high cholesterol  
so it was   one of the reasons which started them off  
and they started doing this like in the early or in about the middle seventies  
uh yeah  
it's true  
it's true  
i agree with you  
so it's really neat  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow that's good  
uh_huh  
okay um do you like to cook  
oh really  
what are you making  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and do you cook  
i mean are you single do you cook every night for yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well like if you were having a dinner party what would you cook a variety of things i mean you know vegetarian and [nonvegetarian]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's something that's you know really easy  
in fact i'm having a dinner party next saturday  
and that is what i'm having is pasta  
well for   for christmas i got a um pasta machine  
and all all my friends are really anxious you know to have the homemade noodles  
so um  
no  
it's the hand kind   old fashion kind  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i like you know kind of still having in put that not everything's being done for me   you know  
but um yeah  
so that's what i'm going to be cooking you know  
i thought i would  
um pasta salad first  
and um then just something for desert you know bread and wine and cheese stuff like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
a lot of people think though that i've talked to about it think that it's you know a lot of hard work  
and i said heck it's kind of easy  
yeah  
i do  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um well i don't entertain that often  
uh when i do though i i have some friends that i always like to experiment on  
but you know um i see a recipe and think oh wow i'd really like to try this cause i'm single  
and i live by myself  
so it's not necessarily something that i would cook just for myself  
so i'll say okay you guys are experimental i want say how this is going to turn out  
but here we go  
and usually i'm i'm pretty good about it  
um i have this really good recipe for this um pork chop and apple casserole kind of thing  
and um you put stuffing and put [poached] apples and everything  
and my girlfriend and her husband loved it   in fact she passed it on to her parent  
and   so it's like it really made the rounds  
and i was quite impressed with myself if i should say so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'm the kind of cook that i don't normally measure things  
i just kind of throw them in  
and you know i don't to the point of you know measuring down to the exact amount that they say  
oh is that what it means  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i haven't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i've been wanting to take an um oriental cooking class  
and i just haven't gotten around to it yet  
yeah  
i stir fry things on occasion  
but i'd like to know more about you know more elaborate things like guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um i just kind of you know cook here cook there  
i don't have any one specialty  
i mean i'm always willing to try anything usually  
and i i especially like baking and making deserts  
i've taken a cake decorating class  
and  
no  
no  
actually it was a private course   through like a  
it is it's it's neat but it takes a long time  
you know i mean like i'm elected to always bring cakes into work   like for people's birthdays and that  
and it's like you know you bake the cakes  
and then i guess just because i don't have the expertise to just hurry up and do it   like you know some a professional would i try to i go real slow  
and you know it's a little time consuming  
but it's really worth your effort once you see how you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you learn helpful hints in the classes at least  
you know the instructor told us certain things about well don't follow what's really necessarily on the box you know if you're making just a cake from a box you know do this cause you know make it a variety  
you know some different hints   yeah  
some different hints you know and the different the different kinds of [frostings] you can make  
you know and i have a book an it  
and you know all of the different you know decorating tips an things like that  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
well yeah  
yeah  
so that's about it  
okay well  
it was nice talking to you  
thank you  
bye bye  
well i love to cook as a matter of fact i'm making dinner right now  
um i um i'm making some uh  
i have a little turkey left from a passover which was in april  
and i had frozen it  
and i'm [defrosting] that and making some dressing and gravy and making corn and wheat stuff that you can buy at a store which is like uh rice [pilaf]  
but we  
with with with wheat [kernel] that  
no  
um i'm married  
and actually the  
my wife is a vegetarian  
so this isn't for her  
this is for our friends that came over and helped   helped me do some stuff  
so  
stuff so  
he and i  
and and she's having  
i i do cook um virtually  
i cook most of the time because i  
yeah  
we we consistently  
if we cook  
if if we have a dinner party we usually make it vegetarian just to make life easier  
so we'll make something you know uh some sort of pasta or something   you know homemade pasta or lasagna or something  
oh good idea  
what  
um  
electric or uh  
best   kind  
that that that that's  
we we bought one in italy  
that's the best kind to have  
uh_huh  
that's real good  
um  
that would be great  
have you made pasta before  
um so you know so you know that it's a a lot of fun actually  
i  
it actually is if if if you have a food processor  
i don't know if you have a food processor or not  
actually   it it turns out that if if you really want to be nice and easy about it you can make the dough in the food processor really simply  
and then um and with that it becomes really easy to make colorful pasta   by throwing in some spinach or some tomato or something and mixing it up  
it it's   a snap from there  
and then   i made  
i making yucky  
it's also  
people think it's real hard  
it just time consuming to get all of the little things right  
otherwise it's real  
it's good stuff  
what other kinds of uh dinner parties do you serve  
uh_huh  
right  
you didn't want to cook  
that's great  
uh     yeah  
that's how these things sort of make it for one person as an experiment  
and   i usually find it when i make up for the first time i usually doctor it just a   little bit and little here and there  
and   it works real well  
that means you're a real cook  
if you've ever watched the ones on television like uh jeff [schmidt] the super gourmet   he he just takes stuff he says yeah about an ounce of this or something  
it's real good  
yeah  
we have a we do uh uh middle eastern dinner quite a bit actually  
or uh we have people other that have never experienced it before and haven't had much middle eastern food  
we make uh cause we're my wife is syrian  
and um her families always have this food she grew up in  
and i've made some of it before as well  
so we make uh four or five middle eastern dishes that are just all real simple  
we put them out for people  
and that's always a real big kick for people who want you know who've never tried it before  
that's that's that's that's a fun idea i mean if you ever uh want something different to try  
i would try that  
oh do you have a wok though  
yeah  
i think it's god's gift to cooking   cause it's just quick  
it's easy um  
and the food just comes out  
you know if you do it right i think it comes out the food comes out very tasty not very mushy  
you know and and it doesn't taste like a million calories of oil  
so   we live in our wok  
yeah  
we we we like to eat even when we eat out and stuff we eat a lot of chinese food   or japanese food or you know   korean  
and that seems to  
so wok food seems to be our thing  
so anything else you cook  
well that's good  
that's always the way to do it  
i think it's uh  
oh the wilson course  
i like it  
that's great  
i haven't the wilson class  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
we have um  
my brother can do it  
he's he's uh got a degree in business management  
so he learned to uh how to do this  
can you hold on one second  
thank you  
sorry about that  
some one kept [beeping] in our calling waiting  
so  
yeah  
he he does that a lot  
so you know he cooks a lot  
but   you know he bakes a lot whenever he  
when my wife and i got married the night before we had a party   or two nights before  
and he baked us he made a real big cake himself  
so new years our friend made a baby   cake like a baby new york  
it was amazing  
i never   could do anything with cakes  
so   i get the mold i put i put it on you know the [frosting] always melts  
and it's   it's just horrible  
yeah  
i'm  
oh that that you mean about the   mix itself  
well that helps  
yeah  
well most [frostings] are sort of butter cream to aren't they  
those are those kill me  
it's like it's like i'm eating sugar  
but they're good sugar  
i think that's part of the problem  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess so  
it was it was a pleasure chatting with you  
yes  
well have a good time cooking for your dinner party next week  
bye bye  
all right  
what type of things would you fix if you're having company come over  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
you serve it cold  
oh yeah  
that sounds good  
um  
yeah  
usually when we entertain we do something really simple because i like to visit with my company   and not be [scurrying] around in the kitchen  
so   a lot of times we'll barbecue  
like uh for memorial day we had some friends over  
and we just bought a brisket and marinated it overnight in one of those like [adolph's] meat marinate   and put it on the smoker and cooked it  
and it was real good  
you can buy a fairly cheap piece of meat that way  
and then people think they're eating steak or something  
yeah  
yeah  
it really does  
i don't usually i just pass on any recipe that's got more than five or six steps to it because i just know i'll never take the time to do it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it seems like most people like spaghetti  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i think when you heat your kitchen up it really makes a big difference   in your whole house  
uh_huh  
yeah  
most  
we don't entertain like people from work or stuff often  
it's usually friends from church and stuff  
and it's usually kind of like you want to come over and they say well what can we bring  
and so it's real easy because you just make one or two things  
and everybody else brings something  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's a lot more relaxing  
i don't know if i could take the pressure of having to you know put on this really fancy dinner for someone  
huh_uh  
yeah  

yeah  
do you work  
do you stay home with kids  
yeah  
i i've been working  
we're going to have a baby this summer  
and i'm not going to work anymore  
yeah  
so hopefully i think i'll enjoy cooking more when i don't have to work all day  
i don't like to come home and stand in the kitchen and spend an hour fixing something and then have to clean it up  
and by then it's eight thirty or nine o'clock at night  
so  
yeah  
eat at six yeah  
oh that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
that's neat  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that really is  
it keeps the family in touch with what's going on with each other  
right now we eat in front of the t v  
but since it's just the two of us it's  
yeah  
uh_huh  
to see what's happening  
oh uh_huh  
oh i've seen those in the magazines  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we like that  
that's good that that's a good way to get kids to eat vegetables too  
oh neat  
oh wow that's great  
how old is he  
eleven  
wow   that's good  
do you cook like you cook a breakfast every morning  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
oh do they get [rubbery]  
or  
i've never tried it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we had  
my grandmother used to do that to us with things like squash  
everybody would say we don't like squash we won't eat squash  
so she would make these fancy casseroles and hide it in there you know  
and then we'd go oh this is really good  
well i have a really great one that i make in the summertime because it's cool  
and it's uh it's just really pretty easy  
it's pretty much dumping things in and [stirring]  
and i like that  
uh the only thing you have to do is cook the rice that goes in in it  
and then i you're supposed to do chicken  
but i just use those little cans of chicken  
and it makes it so much easier  
and so you dump the rice  
you dump the chicken  
and then you put in fruit like pineapple and [mandarin] oranges and [grape]  
now grapes are the ones that you have to pull all that off  
but i get my kids to do that  
so  
i i don't have to do that  
and um and it really  
and you mix it all up with  
there's a little dressing that goes in it that you have to stir up  
but it's so simple  
and it tastes really good because it's cool in the summertime  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it has to sit in the [fridge] over night  
but but it's really good  
and i like that one  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds good  
yeah  
yeah  
and these days that helps doesn't it  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
now [spaghetti's] such an easy one  
um i do that a lot  
i do spaghetti a lot  
yeah  
i don't like to do that if it's real hot though  
because um i don't know  
i have a real thing about being hot in the in the summertime  
i guess  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's right  
and um we don't entertain that often  
but when we do i'm like you i like it to be fast and easy   and something so that we can talk and not   and not have to worry about being in the kitchen all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
that's exactly like us from our church we just do it  
yeah  
uh  
well you see all that on t v  
and i could never be that person  
it just uh i'm just not  
well i'm so i'm pretty laid back  
and uh you know so i don't i know a lady in a my church  
and uh she like does her own bread and does her own stuff  
and so when she um does food she really goes all out  
and i don't know how she can do it and be calm  
i guess  
no  
i don't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh how exciting  
yeah  
well i usually start about six and an and cook and then eat at seven   i mean cook at five and eat at six rather  
yeah  
and uh my family and i we're a sit down together family  
uh yeah  
i don't like the run in and out part  
and i like to be able to sit down after school and have them talk with me an and my husband about what's happened  
and   i think i that was [ingrained] in me during my family time at home  
and uh you know we could learn to talk about things  
and i think that's good  
yeah  
i think  
yeah  
yeah  

well that happens to us sometimes too  
but uh sometimes if something uh is on that they want to watch i leave it on  
but we eat in the kitchen  
and their heads are always [poking] past the door  
yeah  
anyway food is is uh a real life style kind of thing  
and some people don't like to do this  
but i like to uh cook with my kids  
and if they're going to have other kids over then then they help  
and we make real simple things you know those oh  
i i don't know if you've ever made them maybe not since you don't have kids yet but those [jell] o uh [gelatin] things you can pick up with your fingers i can't think of what they call it  
yeah  
they're so simple  
and the kids love to do that  
uh finger food is is a biggie with them  
and and like now one thing i wish i could find a a better way to do are celery sticks and [carrot] sticks because they love to do that  
and it's just really hard  
and if you have to work with a knife i don't like that  
so that's uh  
they like to eat it  
but it's a hard one to have to to prepare  
but they like that with the the cool ranch dressing that goes along with that  
yeah  
yeah  
my son's getting to be a a real good cook  
so uh  
sometimes he fixes me breakfast  
yeah  
i like it  
i like it a lot  
he's eleven  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so  
uh not every morning uh  
mostly during the summer it's hit and miss  
and   we usually have like uh cold cereal or something like that  
um during the during wintertime when they're in school um then i try to vary it so that we only eat that like a twice a twice a week or something and then have like when it's really cold i even cook [oatmeal]   because i like [oatmeal]  
and the they like it all right  
and um then sometimes we do something  
it has to be fast because they're on their way to school  
we do like [eggo] [waffles] and stuff like that  
but  
yeah  
so i try to uh  
and sometimes we do eggs if i get up early enough to do that  
i used to do them in the microwave  
but they don't like that  
um  
it it depends  
if you let them cook too long   then they'll turn a little bit gray  
you can tell if they've gone to long because they'll turn a little bit gray  
and they will be a little harder  
and i don't like that  
so you have to just let it cook a little bit less than what it says in if you have a microwave book  
but you cook it a little bit less and then let it sit with a like a plate over the top  
and let it steam  
and then and then stir it up  
yeah  
an and that turns out okay  
and it's funny because if i turn them out on to a on to like a plate for them to take what they want   they don't know i've ever done it in a microwave  
it's really funny  
it's very deceiving you know because if they see it with their eyes they go uh i don't like want that   you know  
and yet if they don't ever see it then it's like oh this tastes okay you know  
so  
anyway  
yeah  
okay  
i i do a fair amount of cooking  
and and i love having guests to dinner  
i probably do that about once a month  
and uh i usually prepare something depending upon the guests you know  
it it i like to prepare chicken that seems to please everybody pasta or a casserole  
how about you  
um  
uh  
uh_huh  
well that's about the way i prepare most fish  
uh i made scallops the other night  
that was unusual  
and uh basically uh i found a recipe to make it in the microwave  
and you sprinkled uh you [swished] around a little melted butter and do uh-oh i do not know [microwaved] them for about nine minutes  
no  
no  
four and a half to five minutes  
and you had to add sesame seeds and bread crumbs on top  
very simple but very nice  
so if you are looking for a french recipe that was good  
sesame seeds and bread crumbs  
and uh my husband liked it  
and uh no  
unfortunately scallops are one of the more expensive uh fish items  
but you know i i look for them to go on sale at the grocery store  
uh one of the things i love to do eat out  
how about you  
do you have any particular places you like going  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have been there  
and uh it's kind of kind of like black eye pea  
but i do not think it's a chain  
oh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i i do not feel like they are very healthy  
and i always   feel like the home cooking places are are the [healthiest] meals  
you know i tend to have chicken fried steak when i go go to them  
oh how was it  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i tend to uh i get [teased] by my family a lot because uh i like experimenting on on food  
and sometimes i go for fairly exotic things  
and my father [teases] me about gourmet cooking   which is not always true  
but and the thing about experimenting with cooking or anything else is that some of the experiments fail  
uh the last time we had some uh friends over for dinner i tried a dessert that sounded wonderful in the recipe  
and it was just a total bust  
i was   sorry i did not have ice cream to fall back on  
oh my that's ambitious  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh see i am not  
that's interesting  
one of the things i do not make is dessert  
and uh my husband [accuses] me of putting him through dessert [depravation] because uh you know we have ice cream or something like that  
and that's why when i took did this experiment for the company we had about three weeks ago   it was just a total fiasco  
uh everything else was fine  
but that was a fiasco  
uh yeah  
yeah  
and i i also don't have much of a sweet tooth  
so i can live without live without dessert for the most part  
yeah  
uh do you cook for yourself  
or do you cook for others  
yeah  
well when i was single i used to uh i think my favorite meal was a a baked potato  
and  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
and i mean i never put anything other than a little butter on it  
if i had or if i had a little cheddar cheese sometimes i would [grate] that up  
and uh it's amazingly satisfying  
yeah  
i i did not say it was [nourishing]  
but it was satisfying  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
but you know i never really enjoyed cooking for myself  
so i ate very simply  
and i was that's why i think that's one reason i like having people over because i could try things  
i mean i must be a frustrated chemist or something like that  
cause cooking is a little bit like like being in a chemistry lab  
and uh  
yes  
and have an explosion  
sometimes it blows up anyway  
i i once had a an old boy friend over to to dinner when i was recently staying with my parents  
and uh i had this wonderful recipe  
and you were supposed to make a a [toffee] like substance for a pie by uh boiling [evaporated] milk three hours  
and it does turn to [toffee] inside the can  
and uh the only problem was when i opened the can it just flew all over the place  
it was on the ceiling on the walls and me  
and and the boy friend thought  
it was he was supposed to be there at six o'clock not seven o'clock  
so just at the time all this happened the door bell rang  
and there he was  
and i had to have my my my my dad sort of entertain him for a for   for awhile while my mother and i scrambled to clean everything up  
uh i really do not remember  
that was about ten years ago  
i just remember how embarrassing it was  
and i have made i have made it since i've i and several times before  
and i never had that problem  
just that one time  
and uh he he was a gourmet cook  
he was kind of pushy too  
acted like he came from san francisco  
and he had a very sophisticated taste  
i i really wanted to impress the heck out of him  
and and well it was a memorable evening anyway  
uh as far as  
i i do enjoy cooking  
so i was awfully glad i was given this  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
those are things i like the most  
i like fish and chicken the most  
and uh most of the cooking i do just comes out of a can  
unless it is unless it is i catch a fish and i prepare it  
and then i just uh you know i just [broil] it and put lemon on it  
uh_huh  
sesame seeds and bread crumbs  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh there's a restaurant called string bean on spring valley and central  
i like that  
it's just it's just home cooking  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
and that's that's the other restaurant black eye pea  
so i do not really like uh you know uh uh chili places or what is it judge roy bean's  
or   i do not like greasy places  
yeah  
right  
and i and i got uh chicken [marinara] the last two times  
it was uh it was great  
because that's that's what i like  
i do not like it you know i just like a baked you know a piece of chicken  
and then i get like green beans and mashed potatoes  
you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
my uh my brother tried to make uh a bunch of things uh way back  
he tried to make bagels one time  
yeah  
and uh we took some  
and then we had uh german shepherds at the time  
and we took some and gave it to the dogs  
and the dog never you know he treated it like a milk bone  
and he never did finish it  
he just barely made a dent in it  
uh and uh then he tried to made [grapefruit] [citron] one time  
it's uh supposed to be candy  
and uh it it did not turn out very well  
it was you know   it like made concentrated all the acid of the [grapefruit] into uh into a kind of a candy stick  
so uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
well you have to put eggs and everything don't you  
or  
yeah  
just about  
uh_huh  
use about half the sugar  
or make everything diet  
mostly i just cook for myself  
uh_huh  
it's easy  
that's for sure  
yeah  
yeah  
i always put cheese on them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you know there's hardly any i guess there's hardly any protein  
it's mostly starch  
so it fills you up  
and then the cheese has to make up for whatever the protein you get  
oh yeah  
it really is  
then you have to make a salad  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
except you get to taste the product instead  
fill them up  
or blow up  
yeah  

oh yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
did you let the can cool off  
yeah  
huh yeah  
right  
well hi  
i guess uh i'll just start by saying that we entertain with uh a gourmet club here um which means that we have like eight eight people four couples  
and most of the husbands  
this is really peculiar  
most of the husbands cook  
i mean the wives during the day you know get i guess so burned out on cooking whatever they have to cook every day  
um you know they don't really care about gourmet stuff  
but it was the guys that got together and did all this  
and um like my husband just he really really likes to cook in terms of um oh barbecue  
and i mean all guys i think like to barbecue  
i think it's [caveman]  
i'm telling you  
but um he really does cook  
and it's a good thing because you know you can't you can't knock that  
but all these other guys do too  
and so we've gotten together  
and we just do these really elaborate gourmet meals  
and it's really really kind of a neat thing to do  
you  
well we try  
i mean because you know everybody is so active with their kids and all that  
it's like you know if we can do it once every six months we're doing well  
yeah  
so i mean we originally started out you know when we were younger   and didn't have so much stuff going on with the kids um  
then we would we tried to do it every other month  
but lately it's just been once every six months  
yeah  
oh  
really  
really  
oh it is absolutely  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
well yeah  
that's true  
and we have a gourmet friend that can't stand fish  
so i mean he can get within  
oh my  
oh yeah  
it sure  
it makes you uh keep looking for recipes every time you have an eye out   for something like  
right  
so we we try to keep all that in mind  
but otherwise um i guess you know entertaining um  
i i guess i have recipes  
i um  
but that's that's basically what we do is the gourmet  
so you know they would be pretty elaborate  
um but it's fun  
i mean it took us four days to cook a stock and three days to make this stuff  
and   you know you get all prepared  
but you're right  
it's very very rich  
and i'm glad we don't have it every  
because it is it's a quite a treat  
it really is  
um  
right  
but so you like food  
and i just love the the community of food  
i just   think it's neat  
i just love sharing meals and   and whatever you can do you know to do that  
i don't think you have to be you know more than hamburgers and hot dogs out   in the backyard and the   and the [coleslaw] and potato salad  
but but  
oh  
what are you providing  
right  
right  
there you go  
i know  
we're all not built like uh what what oh   martha stewart you know  
we all aren't martha stewart and have our coordinated glasses and [tablecloths] and   and time to you know  
yeah  
shot a video of the whole thing  
i don't know  
but it's it's really kind of a neat thing  
i get a kick out of it  
i i really do  
everything all parts of the food  
i mean   i love to make things from scratch you know   making [breads]  
and and you know people really pretty much appreciate it  
oh i think so  
oh  
oh  
oh  
there you go  
oh  
oh it is  
i mean we have [bakeries] around here that you know you you just gain weight going by the door   you know just like that  
right  
but i don't know  
i guess some of the best things i've ever had um i some of them were just hors d'oeuvres you know  
doing little hors [d'oeuvre] things that i have a kick making that i mean you know  
i get off on strange little details of food i guess  
but   um gee we have so much going on here because you know this is dallas  
this is the southwest  
this is   you know chips and picante sauce and anything hot  
you know you can always make it hotter   and and lots of stuff like that you know  
so that's um a really good party time   eating all that hot food  
and and they just love it you know down here  
it just   just you know  
all the stuff that goes with that  
so  
oh i'm not  
thank you for noticing  
i'm from chicago  
and how i got  
really  
and how   i got to texas by way   of virginia i'm   and everything is a long story  
but  
yeah  
well absolutely  
i  
in fact it just came to mind um  
and this  
uh_huh  
great  
oh that's nice  
right  
right  
no  
how often do you meet  
oh yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
well that's much more reasonable  
i was involved in a a club like that for um that you know where we tried to really do gourmet uh meals  
and uh we we were a little bit too frequent i think  
i don't remember if we were once a month  
or anyway it was it was difficult  
by the time we went around it was uh four couples  
so uh by the time we got around uh to each of us and it was time again we were almost tired you know   um partly because um gourmet cooking is not particularly conducive for regular dining  
it's too rich  
and so we found that while we enjoyed the evening we regretted it the next day  
um so uh we we kind of  
and then one of the couples uh moved  
and so we sort of didn't didn't continue it  
but um and i must admit that as you say when your children start taking up your time then you you don't have as much time for uh regular entertaining  
but um uh uh when when we entertain i usually try to find something that will be um kind of good for everybody  
and that's   that sometimes means you can't do gourmet   because depending on who your guests are  
oh yeah  
well one of my friends doesn't eat any cheese at all  
uh so that's a real problem because so many dishes require cheese  
uh well i take that back  
uh she can't eat some cream cheese  
but that that really limits  
um  
oh yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh wow  
yeah  
yeah  
sounds wonderful  
oh sure i do too  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
sure  
well my um daughter is graduating uh sunday  
and so we're having   a uh few people in sunday afternoon  
and i did a cop out on to it  
i'm buying cold cuts  
well i have to   make a cake  
and i have to make hors d'oeuvres  
and i have to make dessert  
so   i figured for the main thing it's going to be sandwiches  
uh so oh i'm buying the little tiny rolls and so on  
but i can't do it you know working full time  
and it's just too much  
those people that try to do everything  
yeah  
ugh  
wouldn't that be nice  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh they do  
it's very difficult to purchase um items that are as good as what you can make yourself  
um in spite of uh  
or if you if you do buy it it's extremely expensive  
in fact uh i just got back from a shopping trip to purchase the cold cuts  
and i i bought turkey and [pastrami] and and barbecued ham at a an amish market near here  
and i've never been there before   and found that there's uh individual [vendors]  
and the foods are wonderful  
and one of the uh the um [vendors] had cakes all sorts of wonderful cakes uh they fresh strawberry cheesecake now and and so on  
and it's like thirteen fifty for a whole strawberry cheesecake um which is really not such a bad price  
i decided i i just couldn't quite make myself um buy it because i do make cheesecake  
and somehow   i didn't want to do that because it  
but i was very tempted because it looked wonderful  
and they had black forest cherry cake and all those things  
that but those are homemade  
they are not um commercial bakery made  
and in that they are made in their homes um  
so it it's kind of interesting uh  
it's out there if you want to pay the price  
but  
right  
just smelling the air  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
we like hot food too  
so  
right  
you don't sound like you're from texas originally though  
i thought   i thought that there was a slight difference in accent  
right  
i'll bet  
did um do you have a favorite hors [d'oeuvre] recipe that's easy  
or is it always  
good morning  
my name is jean  
oh where you from tina  
oh garland texas  
i'm in pennsylvania  
really  
do you work for texas instruments  
uh_huh  
most of them do  
now i don't have anybody that works for t i  
but uh   my son works for a computer company the national institute of something  
i don't know what  
so i guess we're supposed to talk about foods today  
yes  
uh_huh  
you ready  
okay  
uh foods like you would for a dinner party or something like that  
well i don't know  
my brother lives down east of us down there  
and i don't think they ate all that much different  
uh i think as long as you plan your basic foods  
course for a dinner party you fancy things up a little bit more  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and it's not as good as if it's fresh  
uh_huh  
is that right  
yeah  
well they probably were trying to do the best they could  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well they do in the summertime  
i think that   tea is big in the summertime mostly  
of course you have warmer weather most of the time  
so uh  
yeah  
so i  
is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
more like covered dishes for those type of dinners  
well i don't know  
just about anything  
yeah  
we we really uh use most anything  
i uh i think like parties and that though are  
well like we had a dinner party here here not too long ago with a mystery dinner party  
but basically we tried you know included all the basic uh foods that you are supposed to have in a meal  
your uh bread family and your  
or least what it used to be the regular menu was followed and   ham and bake potatoes uh  
uh something from each each area that you're supposed to choose from  
and uh we we we ourselves are into the wok cooking  
you know they been advertising that  
and   we've really been enjoying those uh meals  
they have a lot of vegetable to them  
and uh   they really are very good  
is he a meat and potato person  
well all our family is is gone  
they are out on their own  
and uh   it it's much different  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well my husband didn't like that  
so we us kids  
we had five children  
and we ate that when he he wasn't going to be home for supper  
that's what we had  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
oh those always go good  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
well maybe   that's good the way way the things are going  
uh_huh  
right  
children usually they like the ham and the hamburgers   and that  
and it is easier to chew  
uh_huh  
right  
we don't really have uh you know entertain too much  
i don't know if you do or not  
but we we don't a whole lot  
we're more once in a while but mostly family   activities  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's good  
yeah  
we do a lot of that take   things to church  
and our homemakers meet at the church also  
and uh   that's what we do mostly   most of the time for that  
so you don't really include any certain food groups  
you just bring   what you like  
sometimes you have all desserts  
sometimes   you have all vegetables  
yeah  
but it doesn't happen very often  
usually you get a pretty wide variety  
and you can you can   have pretty good meals   from one of those  
oh those are fun  
uh_huh  
uh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
was there enough to go around  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's kind of irresponsible and does upset you because they are grown adults usually  
and you know they know better  
even if they can't do it they can always maybe get somebody else to cook  
right  
right  
they said that we could share we share   a recipe  
but i'm up at my daughter's  
i don't even have any of my recipes with me  
uh you know  
oh  
oh great  
they are ready to go  
well we probably have we talked long enough  
i  
okay  
so i'll let  
oh same here  
you have a good day  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
hi  
i'm tina  
i live in garland texas  
oh my lands you're the farthest person i've ever talked to  
yeah  
my husband does  
yeah  
probably most people you talk to do huh  
huh  
i see  
well that's neat  
yeah  
i guess you have to push one though  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess so  
it may be interesting because probably here in texas we may eat a little differently than you do up there  
oh really  
yeah  
that's true  
well uh the thing that i found interesting  
my husband and i lived up in washington state for awhile  
and up there of course they ate a lot of sea food   and that kind of thing  
and down here sea food is pretty expensive because   you have to ship it a long way to get it  
right  
and and uh and but here we eat a lot of like mexican foods  
and um up there there was no no place that we went tasted like real mexican food to me  
yeah  
it tasted like they were trying to do the best they could  
but it just   didn't taste right  
yeah  
and uh down here we eat a lot more fried foods i think  
like chicken fried steak   is a real big thing  
up there uh it was hardly ever heard of  
and   we drink ice tea with every meal  
and up there hardly anyone drank ice tea  
really  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
it never gets real cold  
yeah  
but when when we have a dinner party around here i think a lot of the time a mexican menu is something real popular  
yeah  
i know that um i do a lot of planning with our church  
and a lot of the times when we get together well everybody will bring a mexican dish  
or   and italian food is real big too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
how about you  
what is real popular up there  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
right  
oh yes  
i i love that kind of cooking  
my uh unfortunately i am married to a man and have two children that eat about four things  
right  
they  
uh_huh  
that probably makes it easier  
but  
yeah  
we find ourselves eating a lot of macaroni and cheese  
and uh   and of course  
right  
yeah  
well that's pretty much what we do  
if dad's not coming home we have macaroni and cheese   or something  
but they like uh spaghetti  
you know that's one meal   i can fix  
and the whole family eats  
but uh there are several things that  
well as a matter of fact i keep chicken nuggets handy all the time because  
yeah  
the children love them  
and uh they are real easy to cook  
and   that way whatever meat we have if they don't like it well  
and my girls don't like beef  
i   don't know  
i guess  
well yeah  
it could be they don't  
i think it's the texture of it  
but it takes more chewing  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
so they're not too much into beef  
my husband and i eat more beef than we should  
but at least we keep our chicken nuggets handy for them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well most of the entertaining we do is church associated  
we have a real tiny little house  
we don't have room really   to have people here  
but we do get together for [fellowships] at our church  
and my husband and i do a lot of the planning in that  
and  
yeah  
it is  
and it's fun to uh  
i like just having a pot luck meal where everyone brings their favorite dish  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's the only problem with just letting you bring whatever   you uh like best  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i remember one time we had a progressive dinner  
it's the only time that ever  
yeah  
they are  
but it's the only time i can remember that  
i can't remember what food it was  
i it might have been the main dish that hardly anyone showed up with  
several people were supposed to bring   you know each like uh a an [appetizer]   and a main dish and a dessert  
and we had tons of desserts and tons of appetizers  
and   but when we came to the main main dish plate   there was only like two or three  
well not really  
you know we all took real tiny little portions   and uh were kind of angry with whoever it was  
we were not sure who didn't show up with the food  
yes  
right  
right  
either either go ahead and fix your dish  
or call someone that can  
i know it  
well that sounds neat  
i can't uh believe you're so far away  
but you sound so close  
it sounds like you're here in dallas  
oh  
i don't know if i have anything handy  
we were just about we were getting ready to go swimming  
and we're waiting on my sister  
[cara] hold on just a second  
as a matter of fact my   little one is hollering  
i think it probably has been  
so i've enjoyed talking to you  
thank you  
thanks for calling  
bye bye  
and i guess the suggestion is that we maybe talk about a menu for a dinner party if we wanted to do something like that or   share recipes or something um  
are you one who gives dinner parties very often  
no  
nor am i  
they are a lot of work  
that is for sure  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
you sound like my mother who has been  
well i bake pies too  
but my mother was always the famous pie baker in the family  
and she has the same the same technique  
i mean i guess after many years of doing it you just   kind of do it second nature  
uh  
she enjoyed it huh  
well there is a woman in our choir who is nearly famous for her apple pies  
and uh we had a a an auction one time at the church  
excuse me and uh one of her pies was [auctioned] for fifty dollars  
well i think i i have had it once  
and it has been a few years ago  
but i do recall that it was quite good  
so uh  
yeah  
so that is her specialty uh  
i like to bake uh also  
i do not bake so much now that my children are grown  
but i do enjoy baking  
and i guess i always liked making uh cookies and bars and things like that  
that was more my specialty   i suppose  
and they seem to last longer than pies around here  
pies would go practically   in a [day's] time  
yes  
right  
and  
well it is interesting that  
yesterday i had lunch with a friend  
and she was telling me that she had a dinner party over the weekend   for friends of hers  
for um uh  
one of her [acquaintances] one of her old friends i guess had been in town  
and uh they invited two other couples over  
and so there were seven of them that uh  
i said well what did you have  
and she said what she had uh just mexican food  
but you know she had uh uh guacamole  
and uh i cannot remember all she had  
but she also had made uh flan which is actually spanish i think  
have you ever made that or had it  
it's uh it's um  
i had used to work with a gentleman who was from cuba who would make it   uh  
it's just a wonderful dessert  
it's like uh an egg custard in a caramelized sugar   with on top of it  
and it's it's quite actually not very difficult to make  
but it's very very high in cholesterol i am sure with all the eggs that are in it  
but uh she said that she and her husband had uh traveled in spain a couple years ago  
and and flan is almost uh a basic with every meal that you get   there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's just very [customary] to get flan  
so if you ever run into that you will sort   of be aware of what that is all about  
but uh i would never have thought of making that as part of a a mexican dinner  
but you know [sopapillas] i guess would be another kind of a dessert if you decided to do something like that  
but  
flan is something you can   make ahead and have just you know have ready  
but uh well i would have been thinking i would like to have a dinner party sometime soon  
but i tell you it  

i  
my  
it's one of those things where it does require some real uh planning  
and   it's you know  
you don't just make the dinner  
you have the house to clean and you know the whole business that goes with it  
yeah  
probably a good way to do it  
oh the house needs cleaning i guess i had better have a dinner party  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
good heavens  
uh  
oh wow  
that is such a nice thing  
it's  
i you know  
until  
well we have  
my husband and i have been married twenty six years  
and until last year i had never had another person clean my house  
and   then i got so involved and so busy i said this is one luxury i am going to let myself have every now and then  
and so i had a woman come in uh once a month  
and you know it was not just very often  
but for me it was wonderful  
well  
it is  
and it is buys you time to do other things like have a dinner party i guess  
so it is just a real gift of time as far as i am concerned  
but well uh i  
uh_huh  
i have heard about that  
but i have never tried it  
no  
well i should say i have heard of one that has vinegar in it  
i do not know that it has egg in it  
uh_huh  
do you have it right on the top of you head  
you do not have it  
yeah  
i would  
uh_huh  
right  
uh quite large  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh what is it about the uh the vinegar that uh makes   the crust better  
uh  
interesting  
yeah  
yeah  
boy that that's the real secret  
oh  
it makes me think of years ago uh when i was visiting my mother in law in uh michigan  
she lived very near an apple [orchard]  
and we just had  
we could take as many apples as we wanted from it  

you know according to the owners  
and so i decided to bake about four pies ahead you know   and freeze them  
well talk about working with big amounts of pie crust and having it be tough  
those were the toughest apple crust or apple uh pie crust   i have ever ever made  
it was terrible  
i i could have used that recipe  
it sounds like  
where about  
well we lived in plymouth for four years uh  
yeah  
in fact i we were there from uh seventy three to seventy seven  
and   i was i worked for the little the weekly newspaper there the   the plymouth oh what was it called [crier]  
and uh my husband is from the upper peninsula  
so he was born and   raised up there  
that is where my mother in law still lives  
so uh are you originally from michigan  
or  
uh_huh  
i will be darn  
yes  
uh_huh  
sure  
right  
no  
i avoid them with all  
yeah  
they are  
i mean i do them  
but they are a lot of work  
i usually have them when i there is a special event in our lives  
and i   i make a big deal out of it for them  
and uh i think i am most uh happiest with my most   familiar foods that i know are successful  
you know and i have i make my own pies and pie crust  
and   you know i can make my pies from scratch  
i do not need a recipe to follow  
and uh  
yeah  
you just know from heart  
i had one of the ladies at church that tasted my [coconut] cream pie  
and she said make me one  
and i made her one  
and when i when she gave me back the plate she said i did not share this with anybody  
and i thought whoa that was a big pie  
yes  
uh_huh  
my word  
she must have a great pie recipe then  
wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you  
that's right  
yeah  
they are meant for the that [evening's]   dessert  
and you know it has got to be gone or daddy gets into the you know the [leftovers]  
puts about two more inches on his [waistline]  
and then he is [chastising]   himself afterward  
uh_huh  
no  
i have not  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
sure  
yeah  
like apple pie in america  
right  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well when i have a dinner party that is my motivation for getting the   house clean  
yeah  
yeah  
we are catering a wedding uh um in august  
and   uh this lady that is  
it at  
it's at her house  
she is not a good housekeeper  
so she has got to hire this crew   of four women to come in two weeks prior to the wedding and get it ready  
yes  
and there you know  
she is she must have found some [jewels]   because they start in the corner and work out  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
that is nice you know to have that  
that's a   luxury today  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i i have a pie crust recipe that i that is unique   that has vinegar and egg in it  
have you  
egg and sugar  
uh_huh  
uh i  
no  
i think it would be too [hazy] because um the  
i uh  
no  
well it  
like the liquid is like   a half cup of water and then your egg and then your tablespoon of vinegar  
and you mix that together  
and then you you know your  
see it makes it makes uh five pie [crusts] at once  
so that  
it's quite a volume of  
i think it's four cups of floor  
and like uh a tablespoon of salt and a tablespoon of sugar  
and   and you combine your dry ingredients  
and then you uh put in your liquid  
it just   it just makes it very [pliable] and   and very flaky  
and you can really treat it rough  
and you are still going to have a flaky pie crust  
like uh it's not mine  
it was from the one of the magazines probably twenty years ago  
and it said you can throw this on the floor and step on it  
and   it will still be flaky  
i thought wow quite a statement for them to make  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
wow  
well i am from michigan  
detroit  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's real close  
uh_huh  
oh how neat   oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
born in detroit  
okay  
well i i i guess if i was having a dinner party i depending on the number of people i might cook a like a brisket or a roast or a maybe a chicken dish  
and um i guess i usually plan probably a lettuce salad and a a potato dish  
and we usually serve fresh fruit and uh then make a dessert  
so that makes  
well that sounds good  
that sounds good  
bread do you have bread to go with it  
gosh  
oh well [lasagna's] always wonderful for large crowds  
i've heard you know i've heard a lot of people say it the short cut on the cooking for lasagna  
they they've told me that they go to sam's and buy a great big pan of lasagna  
so  
did you  
well i i know people that have have served it  
and they say gosh if you have company coming   when you don't want to be always in the kitchen it's easy  
and she said it's they said it's good  
so that that's always sounds good to me um  
i feel like i feel like i'm in the kitchen cooking a lot  
i cook guess i cook a seems like i cook a lot of dinners oh not always for company just for just for family  
so feels like i'm often in the kitchen  
but a time consuming place  
yeah  
right  
right  
so  
i don't know  
what that is  
no  
i don't know what that is  
okay  
right  
right  
right  
right  
right  
do you like to make your own guacamole  
yeah  
we we don't make it very often i guess  
but uh  
oh do they  
gosh  
gosh  
oh that's good  
that's good  
or it's always good on top of something in the sandwich  
oh well we made i made guacamole that i would take to a pool party across the street the other day  
and and everyone there said they never made guacamole salad  
well i don't know  
i guess they don't have it at home  
they must they just said they never had it at home  
so i i was concerned that i thought oh taking this you know taking this as a dip i thought gosh you know sometimes when we have it at home it it turns dark on the top   so quickly  
so i just  
oh does that help  
okay  
well  
well i'll have to remember that  
well i just i that day i just took extra lemon and just squeezed across the top  
and it really stayed longer than i   ever thought it would  
so  
i thought maybe that was the trick  
yeah  
yeah  
so oh well i guess we bought a lot of  
we've been buying turkey lately instead of beef  
so  
even though you know  
the ground turkey it's the meat is softer  
and i  
everybody   seems to like it  
so sometimes it seems to be cheaper too  
so we   often buy it  
we buy it  
yeah  
yeah  
so we bought that  
or we bought the the [filets] and then the chicken or turkey nuggets  
and i don't think anybody in my house knows the difference   unless you tell them  
or in  
yeah  
yeah  
less less cholesterol   yeah  
right  
right  
well i guess that's probably all we need to do for tonight  
i always like dessert  
right  
right  
that's always good  
probably probably the only family recipe that we we make and it's really for special occasions is cheese cake  
and we take a recipe from my grandmother you know  
it's probably fairly typical cream cheese and egg and sugar and the insides of a  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds good  
uh we're not uh real wealthy at the moment  
last time i had people over for dinner we had lasagna  
and i used my mother's recipe  
i really like it  
it's got um  
you cook the noodles and make and brown hamburger and put tomato sauce in with it  
and i'm not sure she even puts  
must be some italian spices in there  
i can't remember  
but um for the cheese part you mix uh sour cream and cream cheese and cottage cheese   and uh layer all that  
it's good  
and then uh uh tossed salad and and um oh  
my goodness diane get down from there  
and uh let's see  
what else did i serve with that  
corn  
yeah  
i made french bread with that one too  
i have a recipe that's pretty good for that  
so  
yeah  
i've heard that sam's has a really good lasagna  
in fact i think i had it at a at a party once  
it was good  
easy  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i know  
oh yeah  
not my favorite place but   a necessity  
let's see  
what else do we like to have for  
trying to think what else i like to serve  
my mother likes to serve taco [grandes]  
have you ever had   that  
you take a flour tortilla  
and you fry it like a taco   shell  
and you uh  
for all the inside parts you brown hamburger and put some um tomato sauce in it  
and and i like to just add picante sauce to get the mexican flavor  
so you don't have to mess with spices and stuff  
and then um let's see  
and then and you heat up refried beans  
and you cut up tomatoes and lettuce and grated cheese  
and what you do to make it you take the shell and you spread the beans on first  
then you put the meat  
then you put the grated cheese  
and then you put um  
let's see what's next  
then and i i usually put the cut up tomatoes next   and then the um lettuce  
and you can put uh like guacamole and  
[katy] i'm on the phone  
well get a towel or go change  
i'm on the phone  
um oh a little sour cream is good   and and chopped olives  
uh yeah  
no  
i don't very often  
usually when we get [avocados] my kids just like to eat them plain  
so yeah  
i just cut slices off  
and   i like an [avocado] sandwich too  
yeah  
yeah  
what you want  
where do they get it  
i can't imagine it would stay fresh long enough to  
i guess they just buy it at a restaurant when they eat it at a restaurant maybe  
yeah  
it helps if you i helps if you leave the pit in it  
yeah  
if you leave the pit in the bowl with the thing especially while you're waiting before you serve it  
that's supposed to help keep the um keep it from turning brown so quick  
oh  
oh that's good  
that probably helps too  
do you want it  
oh yeah  
we have too  
do you want scrambled  
yeah  
yeah  
if you get it on sale  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think mine know either  
in fact we've been getting lunch meat that's turkey too  
it costs less than the other  
i don't know  
there's supposed to be something more healthy about it  
poultry instead of the beef and   pork  
yeah  
yeah  
i i can't think of any other specific things i like to serve um  
one salad that we always like my sister in law always brings to family dinners is a  
i don't know what you call it  
uh you mix um cottage cheese and a package of [jello] and a thing of uh like cool whip  
that's good   and quick and easy  
uh_huh  
okay  
i guess we're going to discuss food and cooking  
do you enjoy cooking  
i'm kind of that way too  
when i have i i enjoy cooking when i have time  
i don't enjoy preparing three meals a day everyday  
it gets kind of boring  
how big is the family you cook for  
uh_huh  
we have four  
so and two of them are teenage boys  
so  
are they  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we have that problem too  
but also now it's just the amount that they eat  
it's just absolutely incredible  
yeah  
does he  
yeah  
that's true  
uh do you have any favorite things that you serve when you are doing a special meal   favorite recipes that you've come across or  
uh_huh  
out on the grill  
uh_huh  
ooh  
uh_huh  
how  
ooh yeah  
ooh that's sound good  
i love that  
my husband really likes seafood  
um and i think that no matter what i do i don't serve enough of it really to uh to suit him  
i didn't grow up eating that much seafood  
and uh so i don't know  
it's just kind of not natural to me  
but i like it  
and uh i don't know  
one of his favorite things is uh  
well it's called seafood stew  
and it's really it's really like a soup that that you serve over rice  
and uh it has oysters and shrimp and crab in it  
and  
no  
no  
that's kind of louisiana i think   if you do that  
yeah  
i don't either  
but uh  
no  
this is just it is really good  
and and one thing that's good is it makes the a large amount  
and so i've usually we eat one  
and i freeze two containers of it  
then that's just real quick to get it out and serve it over rice  
but neither of my kids will eat it   you know  
so then   they eat a pizza or  
yeah  
it really does  
one thing i've run across recently though  
a friend gave me a recipe that i really like for chicken enchiladas  
have you made them  
does he ooh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well are these are done with a flour tortilla  
is that what he uses  
yeah  
isn't that something  
yeah  
i was going to say my kids both eat it  
i guess that's one thing that i particularly like um  
but i think it's good for you know for for company too  
and i've made it a few times  
um and you can make a lot at one time   when i needed to make something to uh to give somebody   you know like   you know to take over to somebody's house   or something else  
it it's nice when it makes   a lot because you can feed your own family  
and then  
uh_huh  
what   what does it have in it  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sometimes those are the best ones  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
ooh that sounds good  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
those are good aren't they  
uh_huh  
um  
that sounds good  
right  
you cook the rice before you put it in  
yeah  
i bet the mayonnaise in there makes it really kind of gives it a   tang that would be good  
i guess i would now use the the new mayonnaise free  
yeah  
that's really wonderful that they're coming out with so many   new things like that because like i told my husband this summer i love to eat you know chicken salad and tuna salad   and stuff like that  
and and you know basically it certainly a low [calorie] you know good thing except then you put your mayonnaise in there and spoil the whole thing  
you know and now it's it's it's okay  
and you can even  
i used to just put a tiny bit in  
well now i'm just putting more and more in  
yeah  
and it's only it used to be like a hundred calories per tablespoon  
and now it's like twelve  
oh  
i just think that's the best thing to have happened  
i'm just so excited about that  
anyway   yeah  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's when they   as our family would say a pig out  
that's good  
oh one of my boys that that's twelve um is has high cholesterol  
have you ever found out   about your kids  
um and my other one does not  
so oh year or so ago he found out  
and he went on a fairly strict diet to try to get it down and did  
he was able to get it down  
it's i think it's mostly [hereditary] because we really have never eaten high   things in cholesterol  
he's never eaten any eggs  
he's never had anything but skim milk  
and you know i've never bought butter   and things like that  
but um oh he just left for the doctor again  
and it's it's kind of back up  
um so he needs to be careful again  
so we've really been talking about the foods you know for him to to be sure to eat  
and uh so he's eating an apple a day for the last two days  
and all that kind of stuff does really help  
well i think we've probably talked long enough  
and  
alright  
sometimes   not all the time  
right  
yeah  
that that's about the same boat i'm in too  
yeah  
uh five  
oh well i'll be hitting that fairly soon because all of mine are boys too  
so  
and they get pretty particular sometimes in   what they want to have  
huh  
oh yeah  
well see i my oldest is nine  
and he already   he already does that  
and i told him   he's going to have to get a part time job by the time he reaches teenage years   so he can eat  
um  
my husband and i our favorite meal is uh  
and we do it  
like for special stuff   [celebrations] and we have like steak  
and he does the steak  
and then uh  
uh_huh  
and he [marinates] it in his special stuff   that he does  
and it's real good  
and uh   i do [sauteed] mushrooms  
so  
and asparagus  
and that's our favorite   dinner  
yeah  
so do we  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's not the one with all the shells and stuff in it is it  
i don't know what that  
i don't see how you eat that  
but  
oh  
yeah  
so it  
yeah  
it defeats the purpose  
oh yeah  
yeah  
my husband makes those  
i'm not i don't eat enchiladas  
i i don't like i don't like the  
i don't know  
i guess it's the texture or something  
i don't like the taste of enchiladas  
but everyone else in my family does  
yeah  
i don't know  
i it's i don't know what  
i don't know  
i i don't know what it is about the enchiladas  
i just  
and i'm the only one including my mom and dad and my brother  
i'm the only one that   doesn't eat it  
but my kids love it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i've got a chicken casserole that's like that that that i've  
yeah  
because i when i make this chicken casserole i it it makes a real big casserole and then another one that i freeze  
so or i give it to my mom and dad if i know we're not   going to eat  
it's  
you can use chicken or turkey  
because   my mom started making it like right after thanksgiving   and using the leftover turkey  
and it's rice and  
when i do recipes i just throw stuff in  
i don't i'm not real good about measuring  
because i just  
i do it to taste  
and  
well yeah  
but it it's like it's just chicken  
it it's as much as you want you know torn up   and and rice and cream of chicken soup   and some mayonnaise and lemon juice   and celery  
and that's it and some hard boiled eggs  
and that's it  
you just mix it all together and pop it in the oven just to you know heat it through  
and you sprinkle uh that those uh [toasted] onion rings   on top of it for the crunchy  
and that's it you know  
and it it it goes  
and it's filling because of the rice  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it gives it a an extra   yeah little tang  
yeah  
that cholesterol fat free  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
i don't like tuna salad unless it's got lots of mayonnaise in it  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
we did the low cal stuff  
well with my kids i don't  
they get enough sugar and   stuff anyway  
mine are bouncing off the walls normally anyway  
and they don't need any added help  
so when we're here at home you know with sweets and stuff they they don't we don't really do that much  
i do a lot of fruits   instead of the cakes and the [candies] and   you know stuff like that  
and and drink wise they have [kool] aid milk or water   normally  
now when they go to their grandmother's house   which is every weekend it's a it's a different   a different story all around  
uh_huh  
that's exactly what it is  
oh really  
no  
not yet  
huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
the lower cholesterol foods and stuff  

they suggested some sort of a recipe uh for uh company for entertaining  
did you have anything in mind that uh you'd like to share  
ooh  
oh  
ooh that sounds good  
what  
uh_huh  
one tablespoon of [worcester]  
okay  
oh that  
how much chili sauce did you say  
like eight  
not eight ounces  
that would be a lot  
is it  
okay  
this would make a lot right  
and how much crab meat did you use  
one   one can of flake  
oh okay  
have you ever used the uh [imitation] yet  
ooh that sounds  
i've tried it  
and then i have it here on hand for about a week  
and then all of a sudden it [dawned] on me  
wait is this totally [imitation]  
and then i found out  
i went back to the store  
and they said it is a fish product  
so therefore you really don't have a very long life you know   once you buy it  
i thought so you know they should put some directions on some of these new things they're making that you really don't know what the shelf life is  
you know  
oh that's a good idea  
whose was that  
uh sam's  
right  
right  
oh  
oh that sounds good  
because that's great  
that must be the ones that look like they're packaged for a restaurant  
okay  
i i've  
right  
oh hey that sounds  
right  
and it's something good to have on hand too  
it's frozen   in the first   place right  
so you can uh  
it is frozen isn't it  
and then you can [refreeze]  
hey that sounds great  
that  
oh do you  
and that's my favorite  
and i really don't care for desserts that well other than one piece of it  
that's the that's the thing i hate most about entertaining is thinking of what i'm going to serve  
i i said i can make it no time  
it's trying to think  
and then we just uh built a new home  
and i have one of these kitchens that's the center of the house  
and so no matter where they're at your company can see you cooking   which is funny  
this well this is what everyone has said  
they said it's okay for you because you keep a real neat kitchen  
and i said yes  
i decided it looks better in better homes and gardens than it does in [practicality]  
but uh what i have learned in the uh ten months we've lived here is it that when i entertain i have to have my foods all prepared and in the oven with all the everything through ready   to serve   because with the open area you don't want someone from your dining room seeing your mess like you said  
so you have to have the [picturesque] kitchen you know right out of the magazine  
you're right  
and you know the funny thing is now that i have a large kitchen with a big island and that i still have people trying to come you know  
they'll come in the kitchen  
and i said out  
we have the chairs on the other side of the counter   for guests  
you're not allowed to [trespass] into my kitchen  
and it it has worked out  
but at our point of life we know many of the people we're entertaining   uh well enough that they know you know it's very much at home type situation  
well we even   have a better one  
now we decided that we all meet we have it worked  
well i uh just had a christmas around the world party   the other night and had some hors d'oeuvres  
and i fixed uh a crab meat spread that is real good and real easy  
it's uh it's like uh eight ounces of cream cheese   [softened]  
and you mix it with one tablespoon onion juice and one tablespoon lemon juice one tablespoon [worcester] sauce and mix it and spread it out onto a plate  
and  
uh_huh  
and then you take and uh cover that with [drained] crab meat mixed with one of the small bottles of chili sauce and spread it over the top and spread it on [triscuits] crackers  
and that always goes over real well  
and it's real easy  
it's one of the small bottles  
i don't think uh  
well it's about eight ounces  
it it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it would probably make  
well it doesn't make quite as much as you think  
but yeah  
spread it out because you keep the cream cheese kind of thin  
one tin   of the flake  
uh_huh  
and drain it real good  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have  
i used it uh last [christmastime]  
uh what did i put it in  
i think i just served it by itself  
there's like a little [tidbit] with the sauce to dip it into and stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's very true  
very true  
i had bought a cheesecake uh  
and they very nicely put onto the box that it may be [re] frozen which i felt was real nice  
yeah  
it uh was uh lawry's i believe or [lawler's]  
and i got it  
do you have a sam's wholesale warehouse up there  
it's real  
yeah  
okay  
that's where i picked it up  
it comes out of chicago  
and they're very good   [cheesecakes]  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
and they have and they have the little papers between them  
and i think they're what about nine dollars and something  
yes  
yes  
yes  
yes  
it is frozen  
and i thaw it  
and then you can [refreeze] it  
and  
uh_huh  
it was they're very good very good  
and that's the one thing that i hate to make is desserts  
is it  
oh i love to eat it  
but i don't like to make it  
it takes time  
and you have to rack your brain  
and time i don't have anymore  
uh_huh  
it is  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and your mess  
yeah  
right  
right  
that's that's right  
well i like to have mine all done anyway because then i want to i want to party too  
i don't want to sit in the kitchen and be putting an olive on something  
you know  
correct  
sounds  
right  
well a lot of our entertaining anymore with the couples again that we've known a long time like you they uh we all bring things  
and it sure makes it a whole lot easier   anymore  
okay  
so you're into microwave cooking  
yes  
and that's what we all are looking for isn't it  
something that we can just cook in a hurry after we get off work  
i've gotten in the habit of cooking something big on the weekends so that i have [leftovers] all week  
uh_huh  
i know  
i try not to make too much  
it's just my husband and i too  
and i try not to make so much that it lasts more than that week  
but uh i usually i usually like to make spaghetti or soup or chili or you know something like that   or sometimes a roast  
but  
what's your favorite thing to cook if you're having a dinner party  
oh oh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
that sounds delicious  
uh_huh  
i end up with an old stand by that we call russian chicken because it's so easy  
and uh it  
you have to cook very little to go with it just some rice and some salad  
and that's about it you know  
uh you make you just take your boneless chicken breasts  
and then you take and make a a dressing out of uh russian dressing one bottle of that   and a package of [lipton] onion soup mix   and three ounces of [apricot] [preserves]  
and you mix it up  
and you just put it on the top of the chicken  
and then i cover the pan with foil and put it in the oven for about an hour  
and then i take the foil off and let it brown   takes about another twenty minutes  
and it's delicious  
and it's so simple because i can pop it in when i come in the door you know and then uh go about my business  
and by the time i've got everything else ready the [chicken's] [chicken's] done  
so that's a real easy thing for me  
uh_huh  
oh really  
no  
i don't  
my mom gets that  
but  
really  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
well i love cheese cake  
i have never been i don't know the ones  
i have made i have not done that well with  
i like a baked cheese cake you know  
i don't  
i have had a recipe that someone has given me that it's kind of like you just mix cream cheese and stuff   and [refrigerate] it you know  
but that's not the same as a a new york style   cheese cake  
and uh the recipes that i've used  
everybody will say oh this is real simple  
and then i make it  
and it's it's really not very good  
but yours sounds good  
i bet that lemon and orange peel gives it a little bit of [tartness]  
um well that sounds interesting  
so there's your good dessert for your dinner party  
are you into serving wines with your dinner party  
me either  
i wish i knew more about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they would be if you just had time to do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well how neat  
uh_huh  
um well i didn't even know they were offering that  
i guess i  
uh_huh  
oh well i bet that would be a fun thing to do  
yeah  
it's just it's so easy nowadays you know  
and it's uh especially when people are working just to come home and pop something into the microwave  
and it be ready in just a few minutes  
yeah  
all week  
well we've done that too  
there's just my husband and i  
and he he sometimes makes a huge spot uh pot of spaghetti  
and you know we're eating it for a week and a half  
and i kind of get sick of it after he  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
um i have a great recipe for sour cream chicken enchiladas  
it's it's really good  
i got it from a friend of mine that i used to work with  
and uh every time i've served it everybody just loves it  
so that's that's one of my favorite things to make  
what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what do you put in it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
that sounds good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
that sounds good  
is done  
right  
yeah  
that sounds good too  
i've got a um a great recipe for cheese cake  
i don't know if you get southern living  
but  
they have one  
if you like to cook they have  
every recipe i've tried out of that has been a really good one  
and um you know every month they've got all different kinds of recipes  
but i got one in there about a year or so ago on cheese cake  
and it's just a regular cheese cake  
and then you can put raspberry uh topping on it  
but inside the cheese cake uh recipe you put um lemon peel and orange peel  
and it's just enough to taste it you know when when when you're eating the cheese cake  
and it is wonderful  
but it takes a long time because you have to cook it for forty five minutes and then you turn the oven off and you leave it in the oven for another forty five minutes   and then you open up the oven door and leave it in for another forty five minutes   and then you're supposed to um i think chill it to room temperature  
so sometimes i'll do that overnight and then put the topping on the next day  
but it's it's very good  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
no  
it's not  
right  
it does  
and it it it is really good  
right  
oh sometimes  
but i mean i'm not a wine [connoisseur] by any means  
i've been to you know some wine [tastings] up in napa valley  
but um you know and i learned a little bit about them then  
but   you know what would be fun they have some of those classes you can take  
yeah  
and then there's places um  
do you live in dallas  
okay  
there's places here that um offer  
i think it's like once a month  
you can go and to a particular restaurant or whatever  
and you can kind of take a cooking class  
and then you get to eat everything afterwards  
and then they also go into the wines you know   to serve with you know different types of   of meals and that kind of thing  
and it sounds like it's a lot of fun  
we have some friends who've done that  
and they've really enjoyed it  
yeah  
this place is called like [medina's] or   [messina's] kitchen or something like that  
yeah  
it it sounds like like it  
okay  
while i was waiting for you to connect i i thought of a couple of menus  
so i decided it had to be in it informal or not  
you know   if it's informal i'd probably choose something i mean just like hamburgers or steaks out on the grill   because that's a lot of fun especially this time of year where it's so nice out  
um if it was formal i'd probably go with something like a chicken breast or lasagna or something  
i'm not i'm not into formal dinner parties  
but   i'd probably go with lasagna a green salad and garlic bread  
um i have a pillsbury cookbook i got when i was married  
but it's kind of the bible of cooking   for me  
then i have some from like church that are more family recipes that are more useful   you know budget cookbooks  
but   and of course you get a lot from when you're growing up  
um i cook a lot the same as as my mom did  
of course i've added several   different recipes  
but what you serve or what would you  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
that would be wonderful in these times  
yeah  
either they're really fast or   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what's one of your favorites  
uh_huh  
wow  
sounds too good  
yeah  
yeah  
that thirty minute cookbook  
that sounds fun  
i find a lot of the cookbooks that i don't know that you buy over the counter ask for really strange ingredients or things i don't keep on hand all the time  
and i have young children  
and our budget's set you know at this time  
but i want to use simple recipes that   i have things on hand  
i don't have to run to the store to buy or look for something i haven't heard of  
that's why sometimes i shy away from uh more of a traditional cookbook  
but well it was interesting talking to you  
it's a fun subject  
food is one of my favorite things too  
anything else you wanted to add  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that sounds good  
that sounds really good  
it sounds like you guys are a little more gourmet than i am  
i'm pretty simple right now  
but  
yes  
that's probably that's true  
i have little ones  
and we and they won't eat you know too many different foods   right now  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
[spaghetti's] a pretty staple every other week or so  
and it goes a long ways too  
so   all righty  
talk to you later maybe  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
i see  
so what do you use for cookbooks  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i i i think we come from from different backgrounds uh  
so the  
i i i  
so it you know  
have different perspectives that you are  
i find the joy of cooking to be a remarkably useful book   to to fall back on  
because it has almost everything in it  
but on the other hand it's not very inspiring uh  
it's a good reference when you need to dig something up  
what we've found very useful is a book called the thirty minute cookbook  
i think that's the title by marion [burroughs]  
uh which has recipes which allegedly can all be prepared in thirty minutes you know the whole meal  
and so she's  
yeah  
now now i i find that the cutting up of the food and all that really makes it take a little longer than thirty minutes  
but they're but they're but they're interesting   they're interesting menus um combinations that you wouldn't have nobody thought of  
um  
um gee  
the one i had most recently was was one that was  
she she describes as jim [beard's] favorite um summer menu or something  
and it [consisted] of of grilled [kielbasa] sausage   uh a potato salad with olive oil and uh some tomatoes that had been chopped up with onions and curry powder and probably some yogurt was in there  
uh and that and that was you know that's that that's certain you can do in thirty minutes  
but there are a whole lot of you know  
i mean i i would recommend you look at that book   if you're a busy person  
thirty minute cookbook  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
well you had said dinner you know you know  
what would i put together for a formal dinner  
we we had some friends over as recently as saturday night  
and and um put here here  
the inspiration was a combination of julia child for the dessert you know a chocolate [mousse] recipe   and a sort of cookbook which has a recipe for a thing called chicken [marabella]   um which is this wonderful thing you can do um  
basically you're baking baking chicken in a in an open pan um having marinated it first  
and my wife did this part so i don't remember all the details  
marinated in olive oil and some seasoning um and cooked with some olives and some and some [prunes] uh  
there's a little bit of brown sugar in there  
and it bakes up  
and it's a delicious thing  
and it's easy  
[comparatively]  
so   um i'm sorry  
i just love  
well maybe a little more leisure time   to do it  
i don't know  
yeah  
i found my kids were very frustrating when they were little   in terms of their tastes  
well there again sometimes it was easy  
they'd you know  
canned [ravioli] was   one of their favorites and so it was easy to   open a can of [ravioli]  
yes  
well nice talking to you cheryl  
okay  
bye  
okay diane  
and a very good afternoon to you  
do you uh do most of your cooking at home  
or do you uh have a lot of people come in and have to prepare for them  
uh_huh  
my goodness  
well what would you uh like to cook  
what's what what's what is your favorite uh recipes uh that you would like to have   for a dinner party  
now you're in dallas is it  
okay  
i was i was thinking in terms of mexican almost   tex mex  
uh_huh  
well that's a very interesting food though  
and when i go out to eat dinner sometimes   that's the type of foods i like to find  
we have uh  
i think chico's  
or or in these different restaurants   in this area that uh have all this fine mexican foods  
but um if i were to cook uh a dinner party uh it may be standard to you  
but uh actually i never get too much fried chicken  
but i would have fried chicken uh with reasonably hot sauce on it   almost a mexican type thing  
and i love twice cooked potatoes  
have you ever had twice cooked potatoes   with with a cream made of the the sour cream and cream cheese and uh a little [oleo] and i use uh [oregano] and   maybe dill weed uh mixed in with it  
and uh i like broccoli casseroles   which would include onion and cheese and and more dill weed   and some medium hot peppers  
as you can see i'm inclined towards the mexican type of a meal  
and i would probably have some quiet and gentle fried onion rings mixed in there with it too  
so uh how would you improve upon that  
more fresh vegetables  
included to that  
uh_huh  
how do you cook your green beans  
uh_huh  
so you  
all right that's what i was wondering about  
what what you use and and   in herbs and so forth  
uh_huh  
have you ever tried chinese type green beans  
we use soy sauce  
well you might uh be interested in that  
have  
it gives a very delicious taste  
you you have a soy sauce taste  
and you also have a little cream sauce in there because you   you would use the uh water and  
uh golly what's this white powder that that uh that you mix with water   and gives a thick sauce  
i can't even think of the name of that right at the moment  
anyhow  
sorry about my mind  
but uh it does make a nice thick creamy sauce with the green beans  
and then you have a nice soy sauce taste under it with a few onions in there with it  
if it does  
it it brings out such a so much different things in uh   in the string beans  
i i like it to try them differently  
i hardly ever cook them the same way twice   just so i can enjoy them  
so you might uh think about that  
chinese cooking actually has a lot of very delicious tastes to them  
and uh north african cooking is good   when you use something called [couscous]  
and that's uh made from uh i think they call it beans  
and that's the type of something that whatever you mix with it this [couscous] uh absorbs the taste of whatever else you put in it where that makes a very delicious dish  
you probably have to buy that from specialty stores  
c o u s c o u s  
and that's a a north african dish  
they eat it one to two meals everyday   in north africa  
and it is very very flexible  
you can do a lot of things with it  
it makes a fantastic uh uh salad with cucumbers and   olive oil and onions  
and  
oh boy  
real tasty  
well i've enjoyed talking with you  
and i hope i've   given you some ideas  
and uh that's one thing we can enjoy is good delicious food  
well thank you very much miss diane  
bye bye  
and good afternoon to you  
um no  
i do most of my cooking at home  
and um i could safely say that i have never cooked for a dinner party  
um  
right  
i'm in dallas  
of course um dinner parties down here probably oh turn out to be more things like barbecues  
and  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
uh tex mex uh  
mexican food um   probably a little bit different than what you serve up in pennsylvania for a dinner party  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
fried chicken  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
i have  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh improve upon that  
let's see  
i'd probably put a bunch of fresh vegetables in  
and some  
yeah  
uh green beans and uh   carrots and things like that  
my green beans  
um i just get fresh green beans from the grocery store and snap off the ends and put them in water and steam them for about ten minutes  
and i like to put a little mrs dash in with them  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
um i like to just put a tablespoon or so of mrs dash in there  
and it makes them pretty tasty  
the chinese type  
are they the real  
no  
i haven't ever used that  
uh_huh  
a white powder  
um gosh  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i might try that  
oh yes  
i love chinese  
north african  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
well i've enjoyed   talking with you  
oh yes  
okay  
thank you  
bye bye  
hi donna  
ready to get started  
okay  
sort of an interesting topic since i just got back from lunch here  
oh it was uh it was  
i'm an officer in the air force  
and we went to the [officers'] club for a little mexican food  
today   yeah  
yeah  
if you're having a dinner party what what would you serve  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
jeez  
well well when is the party here  
i don't know  
being a being the bachelor here that i am i i don't think i'd i'd be  
i mean it it's not a question of capability here to do something like that  
it's just there's there's no motivation  
you know i want to i want to throw some charcoal on the grill and and throw a steak on there and some baked potatoes and stuff like that  
but um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what they   they are shooting for here  
well i live on a i live on a lake here  
and uh so it  
and then during the summertime it's real nice to be able to entertain outdoors  
like that's a little more a casual thing  
but in mine the wintertime it's not bad too because then i've got a a fireplace and a nice nice house and all that  
so we   sort of a   really good place to do entertaining like that  
i just haven't uh really tried a whole lot  
but uh   i don't know  
let's see  
i have had well one time i did have a dinner party  
i served a uh uh  
i had a gang of people over and kind of made a fried chicken thing and biscuits   and kind of southern uh southern food even though i'm up here in new york  
so  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it's  
oh no kidding  
upstate  
rome  
in uh   [griffins] air force base  
well i was born in buffalo  
and uh been all over the place  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
i've been down to texas a few times   and uh had uh the pleasure of their good mexican   cuisine down there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hi  
this is donna donahue  
hi  
uh yeah  
i think so  
okay  
well what did you have for lunch  
oh  
oh  
well that's interesting  
okay  
so our topic is is food today  
is that  
okay  
okay uh  
do you want me to go first  
okay  
if i was having a dinner party i would probably um have some um some uh um some fruit to start with with some apples sliced up and maybe some cheddar cheese and crackers and grapes and um probably serve maybe some wine and beer and maybe have some uh uh salsa and chips around and peanuts  
and then i would have um let's see i usually have like a little theme when i have a dinner party  
so   um i would have maybe um say if it was like greek night or something   um maybe um on the barbecue we'd put uh cubes of lamb or i guess lamb used for greek and um like a shish kabob   and um mushrooms and tomatoes and onions  
and then we'd have um like a big greek tossed salad kind of like a [caesar] salad  
and um let's see what else  
um maybe some rolls and um i guess some uh some rice or something like that  
how does that sound  
yeah  
um yeah  
that would take some planning  
but  
that's right  
well that sounds good too  
i have um i have three kids  
so um when we have friends over i have my oldest kind of baby sit for the little two younger ones upstairs  
and um usually we just have very plain kind of you know interesting not very interesting meals   pizza and that all  
so once in a while when we do something like that it's kind of fun  
but it's not a   not a regular thing  
um   now are we supposed to talk for about five minutes  
is that  
it   okay  
okay  
um let's see now  

okay  
so you would have a barbecue  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you are in new york right now  
oh  
i'm i'm in texas  
i didn't know this was all from all over the whole country  
oh i see  
and i'm originally from long island  
yes  
and now where are you in new york  
oh upstate  
oh okay  
oh okay  
is that where you you are originally from around there  
oh okay  
oh wow  
that's interesting  
okay  
let's see  
um well i like to have um sometimes when i have a dinner party i'll have um everybody bring something  
and that's real interesting because then you get different um different kinds of foods and new recipes  
and um uh sometimes somebody will be bring something that you really like  
and get the recipe from them or whatever  
and we are just getting interested in in mexican food  
because here in texas they have lots of   really good mexican restaurants  
and   um we're we're just getting into the fajitas and all that stuff that you could  
do you know what a [fajita] is  
yeah  
okay  
yes  
they have some delicious delicious things  
and i um  
since i always make chicken [burritos] and just   take chicken breasts  
and you boil them maybe like four chicken breasts  
and you boil them until they are cooked   maybe like thirty minutes  
and then you [debone] them and and kind of shred them up into the meat that has gotten cooled  
and you take um little bit maybe two tablespoons of butter and a in a big frying pan and chop up some onion and put in [oregano] and salt  
[angie]  
okay  
um let's see  
uh i like seafood  
uh let's see  
uh shrimp steamed uh [shellfish] with maybe herbs  
uh spicy lobster with [linguini]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh i think hors d'oeuvres are good too  
uh and that way you can have a variety uh  
uh  
yeah  
fresh vegetables would be good  
or uh just  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
oh all these hard questions  
uh what white wine  
yeah  
i'm not really a drinker  
so i'm not i don't know a lot about that  
oh goodness  
uh chocolate something chocolate  
uh  
yes  
oh you do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that sounds good too  
traditional  
right  
yeah  
i just started   i just really started uh uh learning about that  
and i bought a martha stewart  
i don't know if you've heard of her  
her cookbook  
and she talks about catering and uh you know goes into goes into all that and the different types of uh uh different types of parties you know different types of foods  
um my father owns a restaurant  
it's it's just a uh a cafe  
so it's not really anything you know that i want to  
it's not the same  
uh it's in lewisville  
trinity  
that's public  
no  
uh_huh  
it's not  
uh  
let's see  
what about [hawaiian] [luau]  
could have uh uh fruits and and pineapple uh  
let's see uh  
i think i think decorating your food is you know really  
now is it [stacy]  
[angie]  
i'm sorry  
well now so if you were going to have a dinner party what would you make  
that sounds good  
now what is uh what is uh the steamed [shellfish] you said  
and what would that be like a clam or uh  
okay  
so if you have a a dinner party and you're going to serve uh seafood for supper what type of uh hors d'oeuvres would you serve prior to the meal  
like cheeses or fruits or vegetables or  
probably not [nachos] and dip huh  
and would you uh would it be appropriate to uh drink with the uh prior when you have the hors d'oeuvres  
okay  
and then when you serve the meal what type of wine would you have with uh with the with seafood  
that would be my guess  
and   and then uh uh dessert  
something sweet  
you must like chocolate  
well let's see  
usually when we have a dinner party i always i like to grill  
so we might have some [cocktails] ahead of time and maybe some uh some dip uh some cheese  
one of our favorites is uh to take some let's see philadelphia cream cheese i think is that what comes in   those little blocks   and pour cocktail sauce over the top of it and then get these little canned shrimp and uh wash them and cool them and then dump them in the uh sauce and then take crackers  
and then you just dip the cracker in the sauce with the clams and the cream cheese  
and you have a real nice dip that goes good with a cocktail  
and then i like to barbecue like steaks or pork chops  
and then we have uh oh lot of times we'll have baked potatoes with them   and a salad  
and then uh i don't know what we usually have for dessert  
cake sometimes  
but uh that's what we would do for a dinner party i guess  
but that's i guess when you talk about dinner party that's probably not uh that's more for like when friends come   over  
traditional  
yeah  
i wouldn't be the big uh [snotty] kind  
huh_uh  
oh well do you work in a uh in a setting where you uh are in the food business  
oh in uh   is it in dallas  
okay  
all right  
so you graduated from which high school  
trinity  
okay  
and that's a public school or private  
huh okay  
i have to get to know this area a little better i guess  
uh well is your father's cafe uh one that you could cater out of  
um and he's not interested in letting his twenty one year old daughter experiment with it probably  
well let's see  
what else for catering uh  
oh that would be good  
and you could actually go with uh a chicken if you wanted to  
what are you guys having for christmas  
oh you're not  
yeah  
well funny you should mention that  
i'm a pig farmer  
yeah  
well now it's kind of a hobby more than anything else  
but we're going to have uh wild boar  
we uh we killed a boar the other day  
it was you know [mating] with the [sows]  
and you can't use the [piglets] you know  
so  
it's about six months of no use  
so we uh we shot him and cleaned him out and had him you know processed into ham  
and uh we're also going to have a little roast [suckling] pig because i i've got one that's got a a [hernia]  
and rather than you know pay the vet four hundred dollars for surgery we'll just cook him and eat him  
well no  
hey i tell you what preparing a little pig is is a snap  
i'm telling you real easy easier than chicken  
yeah  
you just uh  
you kill him you know  
you probably  
most guys just shoot them in the head  
they go you know  
in a second they're gone  
and then you just dip the [carcass] in uh boiling water pull it out and there's a we use a little [raspy] brush pulls the hair off and uh gut it and uh just stick it down in a pit with some [cloves] and uh some pineapple about three [pineapples] you know sliced them up and uh cover him up with uh wet uh sacks feed sacks is what i usually use   and then start a charcoal fire on top of him  
and after about six hours you put the fire out and dig that baby out of there  
and it's the best eating you ever had  
yep  
just like a pig  
i mean you know uh it has a lot less fat  
this wild boar weighed probably about three hundred and thirty pounds  
and he dressed out to almost two hundred and ten pounds  
well you know we took the skin and the head and the and the feet off  
and that was about you know a hundred hundred pounds of just ham  
oh well we're you know we're not going to eat the whole thing  
it would take a year  
but uh you know we're going to drive up to kansas city see my wife's folks  
and uh she she  
what's what's what's your mother cooking for christmas  
yeah  
well her mom's doing brisket  
brisket  
it's a part of the cow that they used to throw away  
it's just tough as a boot  
and uh you know they used to use it for leather i think  
i mean no  
i was kidding  
but uh it's it's a part of the [loin] you know the rib cage  
and it has a lot of muscle in it and a lot of   [gristle] where it [attaches] to the ribs  
so it's really really a tough piece of meat  
but it's so tasty you can't stand it  
so you just take it  
and you marinate it for a couple of days  
and then uh you just put it in the oven  
takes about four hours to cook one  
they weigh about anywhere from ten to twenty pounds  
and uh we're going to have that  
oh well we'll have [cranberries] and [hominy]  
and uh we we are we're big on olives and cucumbers and stuff up here  
we have olives black olives and cucumbers and uh tomatoes  
we still have tomatoes  
yeah  
fresh tomatoes  
well it started to freeze up around here you know  
there's nothing between you and us but our [barb] wire and half of that's down  
i mean it's thirty degrees this morning  
yeah  
but uh it'll go up to fifty or sixty almost  
oh yeah  
well it's desert you know  
where where we are it's it's it's uh the edge of the desert  
i mean it's part of the great plains  
so in the day time in the summer it goes up to a hundred hundred and ten  
and at night it goes down to about sixty  
yeah  
we get a fifty degree temperature swing in about four hours  
so everything that lives around here is real tough  
that's trees you know  
we got hundred year old trees that are you know twenty feet tall  
that's all the bigger they get  
they you know they're just hard as a rock  
what are we having  
let's see  
well i'm not planning the menu  
no  
we usually go out to either one of our folks  
they both live close to  
but um i don't know  
it seems like a a big thing for christmas is usually ham  
oh you are  
huh  
my goodness  
huh  
oh really  
is that is that hard  
oh really  
oh  
huh  
oh my goodness  
oh well does a boar taste just like regular ham  
does it  
huh  
oh my  
oh my goodness  
oh well how many people are you planning on serving at christmas  
eat it all  
yeah  
i don't  
what is brisket  
huh  
oh  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
huh  
and that [softens] it up huh  
huh  
oh gee  
well what else do you serve with your pig  
huh  
oh do you  
oh we we just got lots of snow  
oh really  
huh  
oh my goodness  
i didn't know it got that low at night  
oh gee  
my goodness  
oh boy  
oh  
oh gee  
okay  
um well i like to cook um  
but i don't like getting too awfully fancy about it just   because um uh it's too much pressure   you know  
if i have people over for dinner i like it to be   nice and relaxed  
yeah  
and so i don't like to arrive or or when they arrive for me to be completely worn out  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you'd just do it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um boy i like that  
yeah  
well i'm planning a  
and naturally this is appropriate because i'm planning dinner for people tomorrow night and   then the next night  
so tuesday night there'll be eight people here altogether  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's fun  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's a good idea  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's good  
well one of my favorites if i don't want to have other people bring stuff i just want to treat them is   to make chicken and rice  
it's very easy to  
you don't like it  
oh you do  
okay  
yeah  
i have a really easy recipe for that where you just brown the chicken  
and then you put rice in the bottom of the pan  
you pour [bouillon] or chicken broth over it  
and and you put the chicken in then pour the uh broth over  
and you can put mushrooms in if you want  
and then you just  
yeah  
over uncooked rice  
and you can either microwave it  
or do it in the oven  
and it just  
it [fluffs] up  
and it's really moist  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'll keep that one in mind  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you can get away with it   even having a semi nice dinner  
or you know semi  
yeah  
yeah  
you put in um  
let's see what was it three quarters of cup of rice  
or  
it depends on  
you can really vary it  
but you have to put the water in [proportionally]  
i can't remember  
i think it was three quarters cup rice to two cups water two cups um broth  
yeah  
flavor  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um let's see  
i think it was an hour  
i've done it in the microwave so often lately because it's it's really easy  
yeah  
but i think it's about an hour  
or maybe it's only half hour  
um you just  
until the rice looks fluffy and   and not overdone   you know before it gets overdone  
yeah  
um i'd let it cook just a little bit   just so that the cooking goes a little faster  
yeah  
i liked your idea too there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

okay  
what kind of   foods would you have  
oh i do too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you can't enjoy it  
right  
that's that's what  
i like doing things like making lasagna just because i can have it ready and baking   in the oven  
it's  
everybody just says how wonderful it is  
and it's   it's like uh yes  
i  
that's one of those things i got famous for in college  
people would come and say could would you come over and make lasagna for me  
it's like well i can't really give you a recipe uh  
i can   i can just do it  
i like doing that kind of stuff  
and it's it's fun  
in fact that's what we had for a christmas party last week  
we just had a bunch of people over  
and we had we did lasagna and garlic bread and uh yummy  
uh i do too in fact  
oh  
oh good  
uh actually one thing we have done quite a bit through the holidays just because it's a real easy is just baked potato dinners  
and have you know like three or four couples come over  
and i'll do the potatoes and you know like butter and cheese and stuff and have everybody else just bring a couple of [toppings] whatever they like  
and it turns out great because   i mean you've got like hot sauce and taco meat and barbecue and you know bacon and all that good stuff  
but it's it's inexpensive  
plus it's real easy on the [hostess] because you can just have the potatoes ready and just have a salad with it  
and you got a great dinner  
it's it's real easy  
i like doing that part  
i'm in favor of very little clean up um very   little planning   because we've got three or four couples that we get together with to play games  
and   it's  
we invariably end up at my house since i've got two kids  
and that it's it's fine because then i can just say okay fine  
you bring this  
you bring this  
you bring this  
we're done  
and it's pretty cool  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
oh i love it  
um  
over the uncooked rice  
oh  
oh how neat  
huh  
now i've done it with where you put you cook the well i guess you probably could do it same way but cook the rice and then take a can of like cream of mushroom soup or cream of chicken soup and put a little bit of white wine in it  
and every once in a while i'll put in i'll slice white grapes  
and i'll put in there  
and that's just because i'm not a real big wine person  
but i like it  
it   adds something to the chicken  
and then just bake it  
and it makes a wonderful sauce over the rice  
yeah  
it's that was one of the first things i made for my husband because i was like um  
yeah  
i could actually find something i could cook real easy that would be kind of sort of elegant   kind of  
oh yeah  
but then i hadn't thought about doing it with uncooked rice  
so just like in a thirteen by nine pan  
um  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i use that for for rice  
and for when i cook pasta or something i'll put a little bit of [bouillon] in there just to   give it a little extra flavor  
um now that would be good  
how long do you have to bake it  
i do i do microwave too a lot  
how long would it be   how long would it be in the microwave  
oh okay  
okay  
do you just brown the chicken to get it colored  
or do you go ahead and let it cook through  
um  
ooh this is a beneficial call  
i like this  
yeah  
but that one's an easy one  
it's like just put in  
a friend of mine makes it where she goes ahead and seasons up the with the soup and the wine  
put in garlic and onion powder   or chopped onions if you want to do that you know what ever however much effort you feel like putting into it  
but it it makes a great  
i mean i've got a two year old and a four year old  
and they love it  
and because my daughter calls it her gravy  
and i mean   she thinks it's wonderful  
my good you're a picky eater if i can get you to  
we could talk about my favorite subject  
food  
uh i don't cook a lot actually  
i have just started baking  
so uh i am kind of interested in cakes and uh muffins and stuff like that  
but i can't seem to get them exactly right  
so i am just trying to perfect some things  
i tried to make an [applesauce] cake which i will never ever try to make again  
it was horrible  
i don't know if the cake was horrible or if i made it horrible  
uh  
oh  
hey  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they request it  
i have not gotten any [requests] yet  
last year i had a christmas party at uh my office  
and i uh made the tuna fish sandwiches  
and everyone uh i mean i think everyone knows how to make tuna fish  
so i thought that would be easy for me to make  
and i can not go wrong with that  
and so i made it  
and uh i used celery seed in my  
do you use celery seed in your tuna fish  
and i just thought it was so strange  
because i never i thought that that was what celery seed was for  
was for tuna fish  
and so but everyone really really loved the tuna fish  
and they just couldn't get over the fact that i used celery in it  
and it just surprised me  
celery and onion and  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
just like uh really fine onions and green pepper and the celery seed  
and i use like uh miracle whip salad dressing instead of the actual mayonnaise   because i really don't like the [helman's] mayonnaise  
but if you use salad dressing with kind of uh you know kind of i guess a [tart] taste   then it comes out real good  
but i uh it was the first time i have i have ever found out that the the nobody else used celery seed  
i feel so silly  
but  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
i would put that too  
i just did not have those things  
like i don't think i had eggs that night or something  
but i would have put eggs  
i would have put eggs in there also  
uh strange  
celery seed  
do you use a regular mayonnaise or   the miracle whip  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do that also  
just to to put a little [zing] in it  
uh_huh  
i love barbecue  
anything barbecued i will eat  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i like to make that too  
i make that once in a while  
it is not really once you have all the ingredients  
it is just the [layering] really   and not breaking the uh the uh pasta  
that is the hardest part probably  
but uh  
uh  
do you make cheesecake  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh  
and just put the strawberries  
cooking and food huh  
what do you like to cook  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
oh probably not  
i uh have uh a bread recipe that is real easy that everyone always really does like   that uh doesn't require kneading the dough  
and it is always it is wonderful  
it is  
and what is funny is that you use uh bran all bran  
and it looks like it is a wheat bread  
but it is actually all bran flour  
and uh you know it is just regular  
the type that you know [yeast] and that sort of thing  
and you let it rise  
and you can let it rise in the refrigerator and then punch it down and then uh make your rolls  
they really are good  
and they are so easy to do  
that is  
seems like every time that we have a dinner party or that we are going some place where everybody is suppose to bring something and they have had my rolls before   they always ask me to bring those rolls  
no  
i haven't  
oh how funny  
well see i i have always used celery i mean i have used celery before  
but i never used the celery seed in it  
well what else do you put in it besides the celery seed  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
see i have never put bell pepper in tuna fish either  
isn't that funny  
i was brought up with tuna fish you know where you put in uh-oh chopped hard boiled eggs which is   now is a no no with cholesterol and uh   you know chopped up dill pickles   and that sort of thing  
the standard old tuna fish  
uh_huh  
but isn't that interesting  
so you   you you use bell pepper and onion and   celery seed  
i will have to try that  
sometimes i do  
and sometimes i use the miracle whip  
it depends on what i have  
and sometimes if i am using like regular mayonnaise to spice it up a little bit   uh i will use a little bit of mustard with it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but not a bunch  
but enough to make it have a little bit more flavor  
i like uh to barbecue baby back ribs  
and uh and and they are so easy to do if you uh have a good barbecue sauce  
and you uh just cook them very very slowly in the oven  
and it is not hard to cook like some meals are  
and it is not of course it is messy to eat  
that is the disadvantage  
and uh i make lasagna from scratch  
and people really like my lasagna  
and so uh sometimes i am requested to make that  
and that is not too hard to do because you can do it in advanced and just bake it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
then i have a wonderful recipe for strawberry pie  
it just takes forever  
but it is uh when the strawberries are nice and big and fresh and yummy  
uh uh_huh  
i do  
but this one is basically it is like a normal pie crust  
but then you use this sort of uh  
it is a cream cheese uh uh [layering]  
but you use uh thin it out a little bit   uh or make it a little [fluffier]  
and you put uh line the whole pie crust with that  
and so it is sort of like in a way uh using cheese   cake  
but and it is not a real cheese cake  
and then you  
oh so what would be the your favorite meal to cook  
don't like to cook huh  
make a mean spaghetti huh  
uh got kids  

married  
yeah  
well my wife and i and we've got a thirteen week old baby  
so   don't do much cooking for him yet  
uh  
uh yeah  
what kind of menu would you plan for a dinner party  
and uh what kind of dishes you might have for it or   some sort of thing like that  
let's see a good dinner party   menu  
i suppose it would just about depend on who was coming i guess  
you know uh something light and easy  
if it was pretty informal   about anything  
breast of chicken  
oh gosh  
yeah  
how do you usually cook your deer  
how do you usually cook your deer  
yeah  
yeah  
i imagine  
i would imagine it is  
yeah  
yeah  
i understand  
we just had uh deer stew sort of   uh it was deer steak stew   uh well about a day day and a half in the crock pot uh   uh some deer steaks   in kind of a mushroom gravy  
uh some veggies in it  

no  
no  
the times i've been out deer hunting i i can go out in the woods [unarmed] and deer will be [tripping] over me and vice versa  
i mean i get close to the woods with anything [resembling] a weapon  
and suddenly there isn't a deer within fifty miles  
so no  
this was given to us by some friends  
uh guy was in a uh in a hunting club  
and you know  
but the whole group goes out hunting  
and then at the end of the day they split it  
and whoever brought it down gets the [lion's] share  
and the rest of it is split with the rest with everybody in the group  
well he  
they they went out last year and almost everybody got it the limit  
so there's everybody had deer coming out their ears  
so  
yeah  
they they gave us some deer  
and some of it's still in the freezer  
and they  
about eight months ago they gave it to us  
we we either crock pot deer  
or we'll uh you know put it out on the grill so that uh   the bulk of the [tallow] will dribble off of it  
yeah  
yeah  
that is good  
deer spaghetti is real good  
anyway uh no  
i think if i was going to have a dinner party i'd probably have uh sandwiches or something along those lines and   then uh uh you know just something light finger food sort of something or   or maybe have something [roasting] out on the fire  
oh well anyway   uh we don't do much in the way of entertaining  
usually it's   one other couple come over for a dinner  
let's see what did we have the last time we had guests over  
ah yeah  
we had a uh a turkey loaf  
which uh kind of taco turkey loaf  
it was good  
uh [scalloped] potatoes  
no  
mashed potatoes  
mashed potatoes with uh cheese melted over the top of them  
a couple things like that  
it was pretty good little dinner  
yeah  
usually it's  
oh don't you hate that  
i've got a i got a few pounds to lose myself  
that's okay  
i've been fighting my weight since i was about ten years old  
yeah  
yeah  
i was left the fourth grade [weighing] about a hundred pounds and started the seventh grade grade at two  
none to cook  
i don't like to cook  
spaghetti i guess though  
i make a mean spaghetti  
yeah  
no  
huh_uh  
just my husband and i and the two dogs  
so what about yours  
uh_huh  
so i guess it's supposed to be dinner party is that what they said  
uh_huh  
huh  
we don't  
think you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sometimes   we'll have uh we'll have a bunch of people over and cook deer  
huh  
how do we usually  
on the grill we'll take the back strap and soak it in italian dressing for a couple of hours   and throw it on the grill  
and it is good  
real good  
either that or hamburgers we really don't have dinner parties  
um   ooh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did you kill   the deer  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well that's nice  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we still got some from last year  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we  
we usually have most of it made into uh hamburger meat though   and cook you know spaghetti with it  
chili  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
um   um sounds good  
this isn't a good topic for me right now  
i'm on a diet  
um  
yeah  
i have too  
i was real skinny till i was ten  
okay  
[cindy] you there  
okay  
what kind of dinner parties have you had  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
whatever you like huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
oh that sounds delicious  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i've made like little [swedish] meatballs  
but   they're just made out of the beef you know   and uh with spices and things in them   but never anything mixed with [bisquick]  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
that's   my that's my parties mostly is at christmas time and thanksgiving time  
you know i've uh i had an open house party here once when after we moved in here uh which i had things like that  
but i always cooked them ahead of time  
and then i just sliced them   you know and had macaroni salad with uh shrimp in it  
have you ever had that  
put some fresh little fresh shrimp  
and it's in your macaroni salad that you make  
the shrimp just gives it a really good flavor  
yeah  
i don't like the can but the fresh  
you know  
yeah  
that was really good  
yeah  
right  
right  
but uh at uh christmas time we just have a regular sit down dinner you know   which is kind of hard because you got so many people  
and then by time you pass everything around  
it seems like everything on your [plate's] cold  
so  
but anyhow i  
yeah  
you can   always take your plate and just heat it up you know  
but uh other than that i i don't have too many parties  
uh you know i have like maybe just a another couple over   for dinner  
but uh other than than than that i don't have you know   a whole bunch of people like except except at christmas  
and i have my family  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's easy  
i always like to have that too  
yeah  
everybody seems to like that too  
no  
everybody likes that  
and then uh if you have a nice big roast that you can throw in the oven then you can put your potatoes and carrots or whatever else   all in there you know especially if a pork roast  
that's what i love with my  
and uh other than that in fact i'm just thinking of what next weekend when the super [bowl's] on  
i've asked a couple people to come over  
and i just uh had been thinking what to have for that  
no  
not yet  
no  
and i you know i don't want to have to come away from the t v  
i want something that i can just take them and serve them while they're sitting in front of the t v  
you know so i'll think of something just that we can [munch] on over there you know  
and they can just fill their plate up at intermission and then go back over there and sit down  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
preparing it  
right  
oh it sure does  
well when i was brought up you know we didn't  
yeah  
well i've had them uh where i've served up to twelve to sixteen people  
uh and i had help with them  
uh and part of them i did were like a buffet  
and uh it  
i had uh just different uh side dishes and appetizers  
and one of them that that i'd remembered was uh some uh sausage hors d'oeuvres  
and uh anyhow uh you take uh a couple of uh cups of [bisquick]   and uh sausage oh like a a owens mild  
you can i guess you could use the hot if you wanted to  
yeah  
and uh you put that in  
and then you get some real sharp cheddar cheese   and put that in and a little bit of milk and make it all [doughy]  
and then like i just put them in little balls and bake them for about fifteen minutes  
and they are so good  
yeah  
it's making me hungry for them   right now  
have you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i i've used that quite a bit  
and it and it seems to work real well  
uh  
and uh uh when i've had so many people uh to feed like i try to do a ham and a turkey  
and   and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
what  
uh_huh  
oh i'll bet  
yeah  
i'll have to try that  
i like things that are easy and and uh [nutritious]  
uh_huh  
i know  
i know  
well  
thank god for microwaves you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
well i don't anymore  
it's been a few years  
and and uh i don't have you know over a couple either  
and   and uh i try to uh have everything all ready  
and and it it just makes it a lot nicer where a don't spend all my time in the kitchen  
and uh   spaghetti  
and  
yeah  
i know  
i don't think i've ever met anyone that didn't  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i like it too  
i do too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well have you had any good ideas   yet  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
and that's the way to do it too  
i think it's you know what's i think is so nice is that in this day and time that we can have good food that's good for you  
and you don't have to spend hours and hours and hours in the kitchen  
and   and it makes an awful lot of difference doesn't it  
well  
okay
did it click okay um well how do you feel about food and cooking
uh_huh
well we're vegetarians
and we just became vegetarians for
i i just became a vegetarian over the past uh year and a half
and it's a real challenge to find foods proper foods to eat
and it's a real challenge not to become like what they call a junk food junkie where your menu is [composed] of uh things that you want to eat that aren't you know that aren't don't contain meat products or don't contain animal products
but maybe aren't you know uh balanced meal so to speak
so but we we feel a lot better since we've become vegetarians
i did at first
but um not really no not
i i can't imagine eating meat um the reason i [tranged] uh changed to become a vegetarian was for ethical reasons
so the idea of me eating meet would be like eating something you know i i think of it as something alive you know
so it i can't do it you know for me
it's it just
but i do
sometimes when i smell meat you know when i smell particularly uh say steak or something you know that i i do admit that i you know wish you know that i could have that flavor
but but i know what it
i know what it is so i you know i don't want it
but
yeah
yeah
you you'd be surprised the things i mean you could like tonight
we're having uh nature [burgers] which are like a grain burger and you can it's really pretty good
i i the people i serve it to like my sister and family members
well my family members are vegetarians
now basically i mean they're not they're not when they go out to eat
they sometimes eat other you know meats and things
but at home
we eat vegetarian meals and uh you can you know make uh pasta meals and different things that people are use to eating
that wouldn't offend you know that they wouldn't be offended that there wasn't a meat there you know at the at the table or even pizzas you can make a pizza that's not that doesn't have any animal animal you know you don't have animal products
it would have cheese
but you know
but you know not meat
yeah
we do eat
i i had become for about three or four months i was vegan which is a person that eats um no animal products no cheeses no eggs and that's even more difficult
it's really hard to find the products
and it's hard
that's even harder to keep yourself from eating because it it adds so much to meals you know when you put cheese on something or you know it really makes a difference
or eggs yeah
eggs my mother just said eggs it's hard to find [substitutes] for eggs when you're baking and cooking and things
so although you can
i mean there's cookbooks
and there's ways to do it
it's a lot more expensive too
i think you know the the the market is just not made for a vegan so but um
yeah
it if well it really is because just today we were in the grocery store and they had lentils and i you know i wasn't really sure whether they would have lentils in the grocery store
we've been living in bermuda and in bermuda they had a um a health food store that really had a lot of good stuff
and where we're living now is a small town that really doesn't you know just having that kind health food store that [caters] to those kind of needs and you just have to hope that the grocery store will you know the bigger grocery stores
and they actually had lentils which some stores don't have things like that you know which
yeah
see that lot of people don't
and that's
yeah
like [lentil] soup or something
people don't
and that's such a good source of protein or like [soybeans] you know people think ugh
they think it's something really horrible
but there's a lot of things you can buy that have [soybean] products in them to begin with that you don't even know where in there
so um it's it's just a matter of learning you had to know
yeah
so
but it
uh_huh
yeah
well think of it
think of it like this takes a long time for meat to digest and you know if you've got that sitting in your stomach i mean even when you sleep it's still sitting there [digesting] so you you kind of giving your stomach a chance to relax a bit
and not have to work
so hard to digest all that meat
you know because it takes longer than some products some other foods in your stomach to digest that meat
so
um you prepare a lot of vegetables and there's lots of different casseroles and things
no
yeah
you just you just well
see at ours
uh we're living with my family my folks now
so you know they they have the turkey you know they do they they
you can't stop you know everyone's life
but um i think if in our own house we didn't we would have things like a casserole things like that that centered more on the vegetables as far as we might have one special dish one special casserole that was our one special thing like the turkey
you know with the main meal kind of thing
and and i suppose because it's for me ethical we'd just play up the fact that [thanksgiving's] you know is a time for everyone to give thanks
even turkey you know
yeah
so um but it it's interesting finding different recipes
although my mother is the one that cooks um which
yeah
yeah
lots of them lots of them
and uh i have this one in front of me right now as a matter of fact it's called sundays at the [moosewood] restaurant and uh it's out of new york
it's a pretty famous restaurant out of new york and almost every single recipe in there is um vegetarian there are some fish recipes
i think in it
but a few of those but not anything
no
we don't eat fish either
but it the majority of the book is um vegetarian with no meats so
or you know of any any kind of animal
so
there's quite a few out there
uh_huh
yeah
it's strange because well it it's not strange because i use to be the same way
and i'm even to this day you know some vegetables really turn me off
but when you read so much
information that says this is a healthier way to go you know
and this is what your body wants this is what your body really needs and when you think about what what's the real reason your eating i know i know it's for taste because i'm boy am i a taste person
but but the main reason is for fuel you know and and when you read so much information that tells you that meats and different animal products you know are causing uh can cause uh different kinds of diseases you know like heart diseases and different [diabetes] and things like that different kinds of diseases it's like uh is it really worth it
and the people i i really think in general people in the united states just don't eat enough vegetables you know because you can talk grain all you want
as far as you know cleaning your system out so to speak
but you can't beat vegetables to give you all the [nutrients] and vitamins and and the the the kind that you can't get from a little pill
because your body doesn't doesn't synthesis in the same way that it does
when it gets it in raw food you know
yeah
that's true
that's true
so you
it's it's all important you know it's an all important thing you
i think you'd feel probably a lot healthier um my almost everyone in my family is is [obese] yeah
i i would say you know almost everyone
and uh except me except myself
and you know my husband but um
and uh yeah
i i i don't know that my mother and father have seen any improvements since we've been here as far as them switching to meat
you are huh
you barbecue steaks
oh okay
i think my standard thing when i have company and i'm not too brave trying new recipes
so a lot of times i will get the grill out and sometimes we do like surf and turf like we'll get some little [filets] wrap them up with bacon and then maybe do some little salmon steaks at the same time
so that's my husband's deal
he's out there you know with the grill trying to get those things
he likes to put sometimes even [hickory] chips on the barbecue you know get a little different flavor
and then you do your mashed potato and your salad
you can't go wrong with that
that'll push please pretty much any guest
oh you do
uh_huh
ooh
uh_huh
um okay
uh_huh
oh okay
my only other standard menu i guess is uh thanksgiving
i know how to put the bird in cook the bird and make all the [trimmings] yeah
well what kind of things do you normally have with it
people have different ideas of what goes with it
yeah
oh okay
yeah
my uh mother in law is into the corn bread stuffing now i never really had that much before i came to texas
but she has always she makes her corn bread and then of course you know she uses that to to make the stuffing we didn't do that so much
i'm from kind of like ohio area
and uh we're you know not into the corn bread as much
so our stuffing was um lot of times was uh like sausage or what not
we would make it with you know varied uh meats like that
inside the turkey and then of course we always had to have mashed potatoes
and your standard vegetables like you always had to have some peas and corn
and you got to have your [cranberry] sauce
now i like [jellied] kind
and you got to have your pumpkin pie
well yeah
yeah
and it's funny because people call things differently in different areas
um my parents grew up a lot in the philadelphia area
i was very young when we lived there
but you call things differently like um uh we called them all [hoagies] down here they call them submarine sandwiches
and we didn't ever call it uh cokes and such you know we call it soda
so it's just different terminology for the same thing
yeah
that's it's a different kind of bread and it's somewhat of a harder crust
it's not the soft you know kind of uh rolls that they have here it was a harder crust and some of the [hoagies] were cooked like the philadelphia uh steak
the the [hoagie] steak that they they sell
um
well what is it for um new year's lot of people make ham and [sauerkraut] uh i think they cook cabbage up north
i think that's one of the things they want
i'm not sure i'm not
now we always had a ham like on uh uh easter
you always have to have a ham or something on easter
i think last let me try to think i think the last time we had a big meal like that
we did have both
i think we did have both on thanksgiving just in case people you know have a variety
yeah
oh that's true
well um you work here at the expressway site
oh lewisville
any decent food in your cafeteria up there
really
oh
uh_huh
um well i normally work in the north building
and um you would think that since you know the executives are there that we would have a pretty good one
but i don't know
i think it's just kind of standard
like we've got anything they do cater to the executive dining room
but i think they give them different food
oh
um
um
that is a little [overdoing] it
well my husband he used to complain at the cafeteria because it seemed like so many of their different items
they always added garlic to it
like he would get tuna salad
this is what is that
and the first [ingredient] no matter what you're making garlic and he said tuna salad shouldn't taste [garlicky] but everything always seemed to have a garlic flavor to it
um
um
well i'm i spend a lot of time over in park central
but we have just a little deli downstairs but in the mornings they make these really good muffins they don't make a lot of them
and i don't think they make them at other places this little deli is like r c cooper it's a little place you know it's a little chain here in town
it's real small
but uh they make the best muffins we're talking it's a real good size one you know
and they make them different [flavors] like oh they have a chocolate chip one [poppy] seed is my favorite
and uh they'll have like a banana nut and a apple one and a zucchini and a blueberry really good
they usually pretty much go fast
they don't make a lot of them
you have to get here early in the morning
pretty good
uh_huh
um
well you ought to try a [muffin] if you haven't
oh well we all [indulge] right
well
yeah
i know my husband he'll cook every once in a while
but like the kitchen is a disaster area
afterwards
well what's your favorite dish
yeah
yeah
i understand that
i like oriental cooking and uh pasta and i have the same problem uh
italian heritage
so i definitely like pasta
but i like italian and the two don't mix though
i've tried that it doesn't
yeah
that doesn't work very well
either
uh i don't know sort of dumb
what kind of food
would you have in a dinner party
well it depends on what kind of people you got coming over
so we'll leave it at that uh let me see
what do you you like to cook uh just everything
or do you have specialties
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i uh i i've been collecting recipes and [modifying] recipes for a long long time
and uh i run a little direct mail business on the side
and i finally put together a cookbook
and uh i've got to i got to [reformat] it
i i did it on my word processor
and now i've got to redo the whole thing again
and i'm trying to figure out a cheap way to a quick way to do it without having to [retype] it because uh it's it's all size about
it's not it's not very big i mean it's like a hundred and five pages something like that
but it's got lots of good recipes
so i was thinking about trying to sell that on the side
just for fun
uh_huh
well see what else can we talk about food
well hardly any at all
any more
um i've i've gotten together sort of like basic recipes
and once you have those you can add to them or take away from them
and come up with all kinds of different dishes
i i have several cookbooks uh betty [crocker] and new york times and a couple of japanese cookbooks a couple of chinese cookbooks
i even got a [filipino] cookbook
um they have a nice dish in there for a chicken dish
i forgot the name of it
but it takes a special kind of sausage and you can only get it at [filipino] stores
yeah
and it's a it's a strange sort of it's sort of like a [pepperoni] but it's it has a much [sharper] flavor
and it's uh it's almost like it has red die in it or something when you cook it it [bleeds] and it colors the food
it's pretty interesting
but it's a real good chicken dish
it's sort of like a chicken [potpie] in a way you have a crust on top and all that
delicious
though i love it
yeah
yeah
yeah
an idea
yeah
that's the way i am i generally get there and i have have an idea of what i want to do
but i don't really know how to get started
so i i look
up something get get me oh yeah
well i'll add this to it and do this
and turns out pretty good sometimes
yeah
yeah
well i mean i mean that's
yeah
that's the fun of cooking [improvising] if you're going to sit there and just follow a recipe that's no fun
you know a monkey can do that
i bet even my cats could do that
no
not this one
she's dead to the world right now
oh well well let's see
i guess that's about it on food
all right
good talking to you brad take care
i said one thing we've been doing around here is trying to find ways of having uh my husband likes gourmet food
and i'm trying to figure out how how to feed him
so he'll eat this stuff
and the kids will eat it too
and it's not going to be fattening high in fat or high in cholesterol get's to be a a real chore with little kids who basically want every thing covered in cheese
i just have with that
i have never really had an ice cream [fetish] but i'm married to somebody who just feels that you know if you offer it to him he'd eat a hot fudge [sundae] every night of the week and hate him for it
oh yeah
wow
uh_huh
give me something that's really easy to do
i love clams
but i'm not sure what clams [casino] are
and i don't know if i could find clams that i would eat down here in texas
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
god that sounds good
uh_huh
now in texas
it would have to be ten fifteen
uh
god that sound wonderful
well i'll give you one that i i put together modified out of a heart smart cookbook
now my husband really thinks that this is one of those fancy french sauces so when he when he request this
i always tell him he has to take the kids for an hour
and it really only takes about fifteen or twenty minutes to do
but it gives me forty five minutes to sit by myself where it's quiet
but what you do is you go take you can use pork tender [loin] it's more expensive
but i
and i like the [leaner] cut of pork the um like the center cut pork chops and you you need to have them thick at least a three quarters of an inch think
and all you do is take those things and coat them in lemon pepper [marinade] on both sides
no
just the uh the you know you can do that just that you buy
just lemon pepper and then you take about two tablespoons of butter which you know most people kind of go you know this is a low fat recipe
but it is
and you just melt that in a skillet you broken the uh the pork chops or the pork [fillets] you just brown them on both sides
and i like to get them at a good golden brown and then just take them and stick them on a plate and keep them warm and into that same skillet add the juice of lemon about anywhere from a quarter to a half a cup to that you add two tablespoons of [worcestershire] sauce
and one teaspoon to a tablespoon depending on how much you like it
uh
yeah [worcestershire] and then anywhere from a teaspoon to a tablespoon of [dijon] mustard and what you do is you just cook this down
and it makes a a really pretty almost dark black drown [vodkas] sauce
it's pretty spicy now i like to throw in just a you know a shot of white wine and then you just take the pork chops put them on a serving platter pour this sauce over it
and i [garnish] it with fresh cut [chives] it really is a really pretty entree to look at
uh_huh
and the sauce
i mean it has kind of this nice complex flavor where you feel that somebody's you know played around with this all afternoon
and i have served it to company and
uh_huh
but you know the trick with pork most people think you have to cook it at a hundred and eighty five degrees
well done
you don't have to do that
it can still be pink in the middle and that makes all the world of difference
the other thing that that i've really got into down here in texas is fresh uh herbs
oh yeah
well see i don't have to try them cause they'll they'll pretty much grow all winter long
and if
oh i don't know
we also have you know foot long roaches all
year long too
hey don't laugh
don't laugh
but what makes a really elegant um just a side dish and most people don't have any idea what it is why they don't i don't know
and you can make it a day ahead of time
cause i just take about a cup of fresh cut basil i mean i really like basil and then cook spaghetti
and i this is smaller thread spaghetti it's like the [cappelletti] is the better add and i add almost
i equal parts parmesan cheese a a healthy balance of garlic i mean i really like garlic yeah
so you're basically makes a kind of a a pastel
yes
but if you serve it cold
it really is just a wonderful
uh_huh
uh_huh
and pine nuts
and if you can't get pine nuts
cause to me they're always kind of mushy
i just grind up [walnuts] and use that in it
it really is nice
and even my kids will eat it
and they've gotten to be kind of food [snobs] one of them went over to
dry basil doesn't have
quite the taste
yeah
i keep i do that
and i find that it tastes just about as good
and i freeze it in like little half cup quantity so i can even pull it out whenever i want to
you you'll be surprised you'll be really surprised at just how simple
it is
and and it's not a a clear cut you know this this this and this it's kind of to taste
uh_huh
you know what also is really good just really really good
and really really simple if you like to do [grilling] if you can get a hold of fresh [sage] have you ever worked with that just take the fresh [sage] and and you know like [crumble] it so that you you release the oils pour you know put that stuff over fresh pork chops and if you've got [balsamic] vinegar there
oh i love
that stuff
do you have any special menus that you like to use when you're entertaining
yes
but we dream
we dream though
yes
well are you a traditional cook
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i do too
sure
then you can
oh yes
yes
yes
i have a son in law who is a wonderful cook
and uh my daughter reads cookbooks
and he cooks but uh for the last few years i have uh had something different for him every holiday uh for christmas or thanksgiving which ever one they're with us
and uh i think the two that have been the biggest hits uh i think one of them came out of the martha stewart cookbook you're familiar with martha stewart and her
all her [culinary] [delights] and it was it wasn't all that you know yummy
an
it wasn't a lot to eat
but it was interesting caramelized onions
and uh you cut them in half and turn them over with the you know don't peel them or anything
and turn them over
with the cut side down and you bake them like two hours and a half on about two seventy five or something like that
and then when you know until they're kind of
well not really burned they call them caramelized and then you uh you mix up this little uh mixture of [cranberries] and sugar and a few nuts and uh a little bit of liquid
and then you bake that for about thirty minutes
and then you
it's just a really pretty [condiment] actually
and so then you just eat the insides you know the few layers of onions that didn't get hard or anything
and then uh then that filling but that was interesting
and another interesting one that he liked
so well was turnips i've always had a neighbor or two that wanted to bring me turnips well who not many people like turnips but i did a casserole using half turnips half potatoes swiss cheese milk and butter and just baked them
and it it's absolutely wonderful
it's
and the secret is using half potatoes
and that swiss oh i do too
oh especially so many people like them to dip in vegetable dip too
i think
uh_huh
no
well i'm glad to hear about that
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'll be darned
and you've eaten them
do you know when i was growing up my mother wouldn't let us eat raw sweet potatoes
she said they were poison so we just you know raw potatoes
yes
if she was peeling potato and we were you know she'd we'd want a piece
and uh but she wouldn't ever let us
so i suppose that is a myth isn't it
yeah
you're still alive and kicking
no
and it is colorful too
well i have spent the last twenty years in oklahoma
and so i've had a wonderful time with the mexican type dishes
the santa [fe] influence as well as the tex mex
and i have so many wonderful recipes
and my family here i we're originally from this part of the country
and if i do any of those casseroles especially they will say um this is sort of spicy
uh_huh
finally the taco bell started [springing] up
yeah
yeah
they really don't
my friends and relatives really don't like it very well
uh_huh
well it
really
uh_huh
well it's been fun talking to you
and uh good luck in your uh entertaining or cooking or get [togethers] or whatever and dream on
hello
hi
my name is leslie
hi carol where you from
oh you're kidding
so am i
yeah
you're not from choir are you
leslie french
uh christ united methodist oh okay
i'm in the soprano parts
yeah
well i have too
i have too
and i i guess so
i only had uh one other chance at this thing
and we're supposed to discuss food and cooking
and uh did it describe it to you at all
yeah
okay well
and it says uh which foods would you recommend for a uh menu for a dinner party
and then maybe we can share recipes what what they what they kind of said
yeah
okay
i'm pressing one right now
okay
okay
well i was thinking about if i did a dinner party right now
i'd do a mexican fair of sorts
because that's about the only thing i'm creative at
and uh
well for appetizers
i'd start with you know the typical cheese [nachos] and uh melt the cheese over the chips
and uh put some green pepper or
i mean chili peppers on top of that for those who like it hot and then another good good uh recipe for appetizers is a bean dip i don't know if you've ever done that
but you put just the refried beans
and then a layer of uh of sour cream
well it doesn't really have seven layers mine doesn't anyway
and then i put like a layer of cheese and then some salsa on top of everything
and then you just use it for [dipping] your chip into
yeah
it's real good
and then probably go with fajitas uh season up some good chicken and beef and chop up a whole bunch of things so that they could kind of pick and choose what they like
and
yeah
that's right
so i haven't done any dinner parties though lately i've just been
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
yeah
that's me too
in fact we don't even have our dining table yet
so i guess we've been pretty casual for most of everything
well speaking of dinner parties are we still doing this uh um
yeah
you know what i was planning on doing
i didn't know if it was needed
but was a salad
i mean that's
i didn't know if it had to be a casserole of sorts
okay
okay
yeah
that's right
yeah
it's kind of
yeah
yeah
well that's that's my my love of if i'm not going to have a full meal is to make sure i get a good salad in there and a good you know thing of fruit and that that'll satisfy most anybody
yeah
okay
how long we supposed to talk on this about three minutes
i hope
yeah
okay
well then if we're done
it's all we do is just say good bye right
well
yeah
i'll get
yeah
yeah
yeah
sounds good
nice talking to you
now then what is your idea on what to serve for a dinner party
well if you were just going to have company what would
well what kind of a what pasta dishes
what is your specialty in pasta
yeah
do you make your own
oh that must be interesting
okay
do you ever um since we are coming into the holiday season
do you ever do desserts
do you um do you care for the fruitcake not at all
oh okay
i have come up on a recipe several years ago
now i don't care for fruitcake period
and this one is absolutely
it's so easy
and it is so wonderful
everyone i serve it to that does not even care for fruitcake wants the recipe
oh my older daughter does oh she just thinks it's wonderful
and we always provided her with one
but this is one can of eagle brand a pound of nuts a pound of uh [candied] [cherries] and a pound of something else in the [candied] fruits mix that up put it in spray a pan loaf pan pour it into the pan and cook it at two hundred and twenty five degrees
for about about an hour
and it's it is wonderful
that doesn't have all that [citrine] in it
and i think that is what the uh people are so opposed to with with the fruitcake but maybe sometime when you have nothing better to do you would like to try that one
so
what more need we talk about this morning
have you enjoyed this um switchboard conversations
or is this your first one
no
that the way i feel about it
and i have talked with some very interesting people
so i hope you have a wonderful holiday both of them
and uh take care
thank you
okay
uh i guess uh do you have any uh favorite foods
uh_huh
yeah
i uh we used to get the uh magazine gourmet and uh stuff like that
i i did try a few of the the recipes in there
uh well i made a a uh a bread pudding uh fancy style
and it came out really good
i guess
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
i see
yeah
i i do a lot of i did i've done some uh you know things like chicken and stuff in there
but i i deviate from it
i i never like to follow sometimes if there's something in there that i i don't like i'll substitute it with
something else
and and so uh
i like to experiment
yeah
uh_huh
i'm in the northern area up there in wisconsin minnesota
yeah
uh well i i like [waffles] but i usually go to a restaurant and eat them
i uh i don't even have a [waffle] iron
yeah
oh
i like all those things that aren't good for you
yeah
i uh i mean we we do use a lot of the the [margarines] and that
but i do miss actual butter
uh_huh
yeah
well i i know it's something that my wife picked up was uh we uh made some uh butter from uh you just take heavy whipping cream
and you keep [churning] it until it turns to butter
so
yeah
no
okay um well actually i don't really cook
um i'm i'm still a student in college
and um i'm fortunate to have my mom cook dinners for me
so i'm not not very experienced because uh oh yeah
um well i have cooked like small dinners like just hamburgers and things like that and can foods that you just heat up nothing great though
so
oh cajun food's really good
i've had that before in uh mississippi
new orleans that's it
yeah
i've i've had all kinds of different foods i travel a lot
but never cooked it myself
so
pardon me
cheeses oh yeah
yeah
that's right
oh yeah
oh i love italian food though
probably my favorite kind of food
is italian food
i don't think i've ever had portuguese food
what is that it's
oh
oh okay
oh yeah
um i like mexican food
a real lot
oh really
oh so what do you like to make for you and your son
oh really
uh my parents make their own sauce
yeah
it's really good
um
oh that's great
that's really good
i wish i would have cooked more when i was in high school
oh that's great
that's good to know
sure
it comes handy
oh yeah
i bet
yeah
oh wow
oh that's good
um i've never had shark well that's good
i like seafood
but i hardly ever have it
i haven't eaten it in a long time
yeah
um i used to i used to live in the dorm for two years
but then i came back home
i went to uh university of madison
so when you when you eat in the dorms you know there's a big cafeteria they have the food
already prepared for you
so i didn't i didn't get a chance to cook much
and now that i'm home
my mom's home
so she cooks and but i i do i make some things you know once in a while you know get hungry enough you're going to cook for yourself
i'm still i'd like to learn you know i it's i like to bake i make cakes and cookies and things
yeah
i can do that
but oh
oh yeah
oh well i i'd like to learn how it's one of my goals i'm sure i will once i move out on my own
see i'm not neither
yeah
yeah
i should start doing that it takes a lot of time though doesn't it
oh yeah
you know i i think the simpler the better we often
we spend all day cooking and uh it's like [erma] [bombeck's] cartoon said it you spend eighteen hours fixing your dinner and it takes twelve minutes to eat it
less than twelve minutes
well i think that sounds like fun
yes
right
and we kind of get uh [overdosed] on the sweets don't we
well they usually
don't do a whole lot good for us
and uh i've been trying to think of something uh nifty to make for neighbors
and uh yes
right
i thought people kind of get so overloaded
and most people are trying to lose weight anyway
and uh so it's kind of hard to get away from that hard to kind of deviate a little bit uh
so have you got any good recipes that don't have uh
yeah
that's true
that's right
that's right
are you [diabetic] or
oh okay
no
you probably that's the kind of direction you want to go with food anyway
and uh nowadays food
it's uh almost everybody eats out of these boxes don't they
the t v dinners or the i think it's really changing to not spending so much time everybody's such in a hurry
well and i don't think they have the time as much maybe
oh yes
i'm i just haven't you know acquired a taste for them
have you
yes
most of them are
in fact turkey uh would be my choice of meal any time i i'm a turkey lover
and i could eat turkey
unfortunately it's not the easiest uh
or it takes a while to prepare it
but uh it's not necessarily hard
it just you got to plan on five or six hours to cook the thing
so
you're home and you've got the time to cook them
yeah
in the it just sets the the mood i don't know what uh thanksgiving or christmas would be without especially thanksgiving without the turkey
wouldn't quite taste right would it
well even going out to eat we had discussed going out to eat
and uh i don't even care at your best restaurant
it's just not the same on a holiday to
yes
yes
you'd still have to choose that wouldn't you
no
right
right
you kind of get used to that um well i think i hope that the trend is to change to more health conscious foods and not have so many [additives] and uh [preservatives] and you know you
it's hard to even to get a cold cereal that you don't feel like it's sugar
no
well
and i don't mind cooking it's just that you know after you think of the hours it takes you if you get very elaborate sometimes it doesn't seem very rewarding to cook that many hours
well we have an easy subject today i guess
easier than trying to straighten the government out which was yesterday
oh i didn't get that one thank goodness
oh well you know i i went to back to school a few years ago
and i tell you i haven't done much entertaining since
that's another consideration
well i know
and uh time seems to be such a element nowadays
and the house has to be clean
that's the worse part to me
oh yeah
do you have children
oh well that's one less thing to mess up
yeah
i have two
i have uh one that's in uh college and one that's uh in high school
oh
oh yeah
i've got that too
i
really seem to we're a family of [slobs] on top of that
so the cleaning really is the worse for entertaining
right
well one of the easy things uh when i did used to entertain that i like to make is uh chicken in wine
it's real easy
and i can make it ahead of time
and then just stick it in the oven to uh to heat up you know
so i don't really like to actually cook when people are already there
right
and it makes me nervous
if they're all in the kitchen messing around trying to cook
stuff you know what i mean
and um so that's one thing that i used to make a lot
uh_huh
um
that sounds good
we've done shish kabob several times
and people always like that
but it's a lot of work
because the vegetables are so hard
you kind of have to [parboil] them a little
and then um season the stuff and [marinade] it
and then stick it on all those things
at the last minute it's not so bad because you can throw it on the grill
and it doesn't take very long
but boy the [prepreparation] of cutting all that up in the right sizes
and washing it
and like i said [parboiling] some of the hard stuff
yeah
yeah
you chop forever
i've never done that for a party
uh_huh
i know
really
are they good
someone said the lasagna was good
i think it must be good because i have an italian neighbor down the street that bought some for company
i thought golly
she but she cooks a lot too
and i thought if she bought it it must be pretty good
oh well it is
i don't think i ever had something on a day
i worked
oh well man that's horrible
where do you work
park central on central expressway is it
oh do they give you any samples at christmas
well that's nice
that's another expensive part about entertaining if you plan to drink
i mean that is really expensive
yeah
that's what most people have nowadays for big parties at least
i know
you could spend well over a hundred a hundred fifty dollars getting all that stuff
so anyway
oh dessert
um sometimes i buy it
i have through the years
i i used to make this really neat pie that was with crackers and pecans and you bake it
and then you put whipped cream on the top
it's just delicious
um sometimes you can get it at luby's restaurant
uh_huh
um
you make up the homemade filling but you use the
that's a good idea
i can't even oh i used
i used to make a cheesecake it was a easy recipe using eagle brand milk you know
but it was it was pretty good
and there was a time when i made grand [boule] and english [truffle] right
oh that's the way i am we haven't bad a baked ham dinner since we've been married for twenty five years
my
i hate baked ham for dinner
my husband's family loved it
they're polish and they live in new jersey
and that was one of their big deals was baked ham
did you hear the topic
yeah
well okay
i heard it a lot of times i should know it by now um uh talk about food and cooking and then it got into um what would uh-oh
what foods would you serve at a dinner party and share a recipe if you have one or something like that
oh
i'm not much of a cook
in fact i'm standing here going through a pile of stuff looking for my cookie [cutters] to do my christmas cooking
but uh i don't give dinner parties the most extravagant i get is pizza for twenty
but uh i don't know
but oh really
a healthy person
well i like that
no
do you cook much
uh right
uh_huh
it is
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
well i'm not either
i bought a [precooked] turkey for thanksgiving
yeah
that's right
that was one of those smoked ones that was pretty good
yeah
it was pretty good
uh we got it
we got it real cheap is why we got it
and i'll probably do it
next year too
it saved an awful lot of work
yeah
that's right
see my mother can not anyway so i figure
if it's not going to come out
well i may as well not waste all my time on it
and just get
oh really
yeah
i've never really tried one though
uh_huh um
well i don't have much else to say on this topic
i've gotten a i've gotten some interesting ones in the past
i was just on a jury recently
and the two days after i got off the jury one of my topics the first day was what do you think of juries
and and the jury system the next day was what do you think of capital punishment
so it was pretty funny because i had a lot to say on that
oh really
well that's good
well listen
it was good talking to you
and i hope your wife's feeling better
well good
um well i'm glad i got a male because i'm going to need some help um i haven't really given any dinner parties
but um i've had you know friends over for lunch that kind of thing
but i promised my husband that i would throw him a super bowl party and so he's real excited about it
but i don't know what men like to eat that it's different from women
so um maybe you could help me out here in this sense
and i keep i keep asking him you know what what what do you think we ought to have you know
but i was thinking of like you know one of those subway sandwiches those long subway sandwiches
and maybe uh um a pasta salad and some chips
and some beer and some coke and um i thought a cake and he said no
and so we're just going back and forth
so
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
he's
i don't really think men care
do they
yeah
that's what he said
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
so that
okay
i guess i'll do something like that
but um
oh really
okay
what is that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh really
is this an [artichoke] dip because a friend of mine had that at at one of her parties and it was really good
but when she told me it was [artichoke] dip i was going oh no
as i'm not much of a fan for oh see i thought there was something else
huh
huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's it sounds like the same thing my friend served
and it was really good
but when she told me
it had [artichokes] in
i thought oh god
yeah
uh_huh
it was
well my husband loved it
yeah
he really did
oh really
huh
yeah
okay
yeah
and he wanted to uh some uh chili dip that i usually make too
so
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
and no women and children allowed
yeah
i guess so
well um let me see
we went to a christmas party and uh a friend of mine had this and it was she had she was the one that had that dip and another thing that my husband really liked that i and i liked too that i would have never thought of serving and it was really easy
um and it's it doesn't sound good
but when you all put when you put it together and you taste it it's excellent
it's um the [mexicorn] and corn chips you mix all that together with a bottle of the [catalina] dressing and you and you just mix it all together
and you serve it like that
anyway
so i'm so like what did you eat the last time you went to a dinner party
uh_huh
wow
what was it
what was the dish
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
it's it's [paella] is what it is
because i've
i've had that before
yeah
i have friends who are who well they're cuban and uh i was in miami one time and they fixed that dish
and they used [squid] in it it it had
all kinds of meats and
uh_huh
uh_huh
it's sort of like the a it's sort of like a version of gumbo
it's sort of like latin american gumbo or something
uh_huh
wow
where's that
uh_huh
oh like near canton or
uh_huh
oh okay
well i know where that it
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm having friends over this weekend
i'm from south alabama originally
south alabama way down there
uh close to mobile yeah [foley] uh and anyway so what i one thing i like to do is i like to cook real southern food and so my friends um whenever i cook
they usually like for me to really like cook southern food
so this weekend
we're i'm doing like fried chicken
i'm going to fry chicken and have turnip greens
and like a black eyed pea salad and uh uh corn bread
so i mean
yeah
actually just the with the greens not much of the turnips i don't like the turnip parts
but
so i mean it's kind of you know weird because you think all your yuppie friends wouldn't necessarily want to eat like that
but they do
the turnip greens
oh
sometimes like with pepper sauce you mean
well i i
yeah
i i like seasoned food
but i can it can get too much pretty quickly for me
i think
but yes
i did
a spivey in auburn no
we had neighbors whose names were spivey [aubrey] spivey they were neighbors of ours my parents live now live in auburn my whole family my sister everyone lives in auburn uh_huh
oh goodness
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's where i went to
that's where i'm from
well you know this is my first trial too
right
every time i have a dinner party lately
we just barbecue hamburgers because that's good
yeah
i've where i worked dinner was a [cordon] [bleu] chicken or chicken [cordon] [bleu] i made that one night for guests it just took forever to cook
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that sounds that's good too
what do you marinate them in
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
yeah
little cherry tomatoes or something
yeah
uh_huh
and i love mushrooms any way
i love mushrooms just about any way
that's neat
uh_huh
some frozen what
oh okay
uh
uh_huh
wine or beer well that sounds different well what's your best meal to cook though your best simple one
yeah
one that you when you're in a hurry for a decent meal
uh_huh
yeah
have you seen that wok on t v
no
the one you put on top the burners beat out with the hammer it's supposed to be the original one
uh_huh
uh_huh
you like the electric one then
right
does your wife do her own oriental cooking though
does she like american food
she probably she probably doesn't care for much much for the greasy stuff
she doesn't
uh_huh
i've never tried egg rolls well what what goes in them
i mean
uh_huh
well just about anything can go in the middle
right
well what do you make the dough out of
oh okay
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
brush it
or
brush the egg white on there
huh
right
your kids have you noticed how kids won't eat tomatoes out of anything
cooked tomatoes
my my little boy would not eat cooked tomatoes
well if i make a spaghetti
i don't want tomatoes in it mom and when he came home from the baby sitter the other day
and i asked if she feed him yeah
but she made me eat tomatoes with
i mean spaghetti with tomatoes in it
he's upset huh
uh_huh
oh i put them in there
i like
well canned whole tomatoes
or canned yeah
they're peeled oh you don't rotel tomatoes
rotel tomatoes
rotel ones are sweet
okay
well i just bottled california peeled tomatoes
yeah
yeah
if you take that sausage that tube sausage and ground it up
yeah
and put it in with the hamburger it just gives it a better flavor
well in kentucky we call it hamburger you all always call it
what meat
well i've i don't know tube meat
i know
i love deer steaks
venison oh
that sounds good
well you must be really into cooking i'm not much into it
uh_huh
well in texas usually not in kentucky we didn't do it much
but you all want to [cookout] everyday or
well it seems like every weekend somebody's got a [cookout] going on here in texas
i've only been here about a year or two
well see that's a lot
in kentucky we use them maybe once or twice a month
now if that
uh_huh
oh i just like the taste of stuff cooked out on a charcoal grill though
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i have dinner parties quite often
i really enjoy cooking
um i like desserts and uh main dishes
i'm a [chocaholic] do you
yeah
yeah
well you know the best recipes that i have come from southern living
um do you get that magazine
oh it's wonderful
you know i've never had a recipe fail that i've gotten out of southern living and i've had dinner guests come over for dinner
and you know say i don't know what this is going to taste like
i got it out of southern living it's a brand new recipe
and i've never tried it before
and and i've never had them fail
yeah
right
i well that's what i do too
and it has a it's been wonderful
right
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
where you from originally
oklahoma
uh_huh
so you've had you know tex mex
and that kind of thing
i
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i had never had chili in my whole life until i moved down to texas
and i had
connecticut
and i had never even tasted chili
and i moved down here
and it's hysterical
because my kids have to have a refried bean fix at least once a week you know
and it's like a week has gone by and we haven't had fajitas
or or something
and and i just laugh
and laugh my family would die if they knew all these things
my kids are eating
that is funny that is funny
oh really
no no no i don't think i would i would care for that
but you know what i recently discovered there's something
um at the grocery store
it's called cajun magic
and it's like in the gourmet section of the grocery store
it's on the bottom shelf
and and it's um uh like red beans and rice with all the spices already in it
and all you have to do is add water and and cook it and it is so good
it is good
it is good
and it's called cajun magic
and i'm sure
you could probably you know i buy i buy it at albertson's and uh that's wonderful
well you know where they have those kind of hard to find items
you know the the real funny [mustards] and and that spices and things like that
and that's that's where they have it at albertson's and it's
really good
i like
easy
i have a daughter who will eat everything
and a son who will eat nothing
so as a matter of fact she's baby sitting tonight
and she called
and she said mom they had the most wonderful dinner
it was hamburger helper and it's delicious
and i laughed
what a neat idea
oh how nice
i love it
i love it
when i worked one time we had a thing where we had uh uh luncheon
and everybody had to bring a dish
and somebody gave directions to a to a bakery you know
turn left on campbell road and right on you know
and that was cute
that was cute
do you like desserts
oh
is it wonderful
oh oh
oh i would love that
i i like i'm not crazy about sweets but i really have a passion for cakes
any kind of cake
i i really like chocolate cake and uh apple cake
love apple cake oh i love apple cake or spice cake something like that
yeah
yeah
i really like that
uh_huh
yeah
it is
yeah
it is
and i just got done with dinner
so
um we had beef ribs
and a potato casserole and a salad
yeah
i do i
well you know it was so funny when i was when i was reading the things and they said you know [checkoff] different categories that you could talk about
i thought food
i could talk about food
have you not eaten yet tonight
oh
oh
oh was your was your cholesterol that high
huh
really
really
wow
is two forty really that high though
yeah
yeah
you know what i just recently got um a cookbook
it's it's the
oh what's the name of it uh love your heart
cookbook
it's a low cholesterol cookbook
and then i got the american heart association cookbook
now this is not southern living you know lots of yogurt and stuff like that
but if you go to like the [bookstop] do you have one of those
in carrollton um they have lots and lots of of uh cookbooks
with low cholesterol recipes
and uh i every once in a while i get real ambitious
and i think
okay i'm going to do all this wonderful stuff
and then that lasts for about a week
and then i'm like give me the blue cheese dressing yeah
yeah
give me some more refried beans
have you have you tried
oh yeah
oh yeah
oh yeah
have you tried the the no fat no cholesterol [dressings] like the
[kraft] the italian is
the italian is not bad
oh
yeah
and does it take
have you tried that
is it terrible
[heartwise] or heart
if you don't cook though
what do you like to eat if you go to a dinner party
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
well uh i was just thinking as i was listening to this recording go over and over til they found a party for me to talk to
i could talk about a dinner party i had uh sunday
and it included some seafood
so that would probably be uh appropriate for you
uh i had uh some people from germany visiting
and they are uh fans of american shrimp
so i did a kind of a stir fry dish with shrimp that you shake up in a bag with a little parmesan cheese and flour and then uh quickly uh fry up in a little olive oil and then uh take out of the wok put some uh red strips of red pepper and green pepper in
stir that a little bit uh add some uh sliced mushrooms
and then put the shrimp back in with a half a cup of white wine and just bring it to a simmer
and then you serve it on rice and it's really a a pretty low cholesterol dish
because its done with the uh shrimp and the olive oil
you don't use any kind of beef fat
or
no no animal [fats] in it
and it's very popular
and it looks very pretty
and uh with rice and a salad you've got a a meal
um
oh that's a good place to get it
i miss it
i lived in houston for a long time
and we loved to go over to new orleans to eat
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh yes
oh i wish i had the recipe for my grandmother's gumbo
she used to make the most wonderful crab meat gumbo
with shrimp and all sorts of other
goodies in it
my job was picking the crab
not my favorite part
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well the reason for using those is that it makes such a pretty colorful dish
people always [exclaim] when you have the red and green peppers and if i'm making a whole lot uh i use a yellow pepper as well
for one pound of shrimp
i use one red pepper one green pepper and oh maybe half a dozen ten mushrooms medium sized mushrooms
and that's plenty for four people
and if they're light [eaters] you can squeeze in six
but
oh yeah
that's good
uh my husband is a chinese cook
he doesn't do much cooking either
but he loves to cook chinese
and he has a marvelous uh chicken with cashews and and the szechuan peppers
now those are not the hot ones
those are the little round pink ones
and oh they are wonderful that uh he does that uh uh chicken with cashews and szechuan peppers and he also
not at the same meal
does a wonderful vegetable dish with szechuan peppers
use that uses either asparagus
or um let's see what does he use asparagus is the one we like the best oh broccoli you can do the same dish with broccoli and also if you're really in a [pinch] you can do it with just celery and it's pretty good
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh i like them too
i think they're great
uh we i've been trying to convince the cook at uh at the place where i work uh we are kind of isolated and so we don't go out to lunch very often
and we do have an excellent kitchen
uh which is encouraging for people to stay around and uh eat and interact with one another at lunch we're a think tank
so that's one of our functions is to get people to talk to each other
and she has started cooking uh much healthier food much more uh salad without mayonnaise and uh much more main dishes without oils and uh and vegetable i mean
and uh animal [fats] so i think we're improving our [diets] i don't know whether it's the california influence or whether it's everywhere
but
uh_huh
well my husband's cholesterol is not real high
but he his father had uh an early heart attack
and so he is very conscious
of his uh physical condition and he walks a lot and tries to get uh to stay in pretty good shape and to watch out for high cholesterol and since i prefer the kinds of foods that one eats on a moderately low cholesterol diet anyway that suits me just fine
um yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
we don't either
we just eat it once in a great while
and uh it's usually if we're having company and it's somebody that we know is a big meat fan
but there're fewer and fewer of those
so we also do an awful lot of cooking when it's just the two of us on a little tiny uh grill
it's oh it's less than a foot long and about eight inches wide and we just put a few [charcoals] in there
and uh we can cook a piece of chicken
we buy boneless chicken breasts
and save us
ourselves a lot of time and that with uh have you ever tried lawry's lemon pepper you can buy it in the grocery store
it's a
well it has sea salt in it
but it's not the same as they have the [lawrey's] seasoned salt and the [lawrey's] lemon pepper and the lemon [pepper's] the one i love on chicken and fish
and uh yeah
just barely brush it with oil grill it uh
so it's not too done and sprinkle a little of that on it
and then i add some lemon [thyme] from my garden
and that makes an excellent and very easy to fix dinner
well i hope you have a nice lunch
i'm just looking at our menu unfortunately we're having a terrible lunch here today for the cholesterol people because uh we're going to have italian sausage and french fries
i think i may stick to the salad bar today
nice to talk to you too
well that would have to depend on the number of the people and the nature of the party fairly small parties with people that i know i tend to be a little bit more casual and i would tend to to uh serve things that were buffet style perhaps we'd have uh-oh
i like those little little cocktail sausages in barbecue sauce
or or maybe a sausage ball uh crackers and dips and chips maybe uh probably have some kind of a of a salad uh that's easy to pick up and spread fresh veggies probably uh possibly uh of cheese and chunks of uh deli meat have to include some fruit of some kind i prefer berries uh like [sugared] grapes and things that are very attractive to set out on a
on a table a little bit more formal dinner party
you might have just a little bit more formal setting
i don't have a lot of formal dinner parties
so i can't tell you a whole lot about that
but i tend to be very lazy
and want to do what is easy
but looks and tastes good
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well in recent years i have become far more conscience of conscious of balancing the diet and having healthy foods
if i were having people over i would want healthy food to be one of the considerations most of my friends really would prefer a bowl of fruit as opposed to a big gooey cake
uh they would prefer fresh stick veggies as opposed to chips and dips although there are some hard crust
chips
and [dippers] uh
and i i'd like to have a little bit of nutrition content in the foods i'll be careful
but for example about the kind of cracker that i pick to go under a spread
i may be concerned about the number of calories that are going into the spread i know i watch my weight and i'm sure that most of my friends do too
and i appreciate somebody being conscious of that when i go visit
so i do try to cook more healthy than i did even five years ago
five years ago i let my [palate] [dictate] uh now i'm more conscious along with everybody else
about the kind of uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well there was a time for example that i always made a big gooey creamy pie for dessert
now now i may use an angle food cake with fruit and a light whipped topping far fewer calories and far less cholesterol uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
and just as [palatable] i love peaches and strawberries and i sure take advantage of them in season
and uh as far as the the party snacks uh i may fix a trail mix
or a [caramel] popcorn for [snacking] as opposed to what pure peanuts
yeah
or or something else that that really is loaded with empty with empty calories no nutrition oh yeah
it's a favorite
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
well i tend to i i well nearly everything i try to balance
uh you can take everything to an extreme
everything to an extreme
and i'm not going to take the flavor
and the pleasure out of the food in order to make it quote healthy
i'd rather die than eat
terrible tasting food
yeah
yeah
and there are you know people whose systems are accustom to that kind of discipline can actually tolerate it much better than those who are not i know that when i began to add bran to my diet i had a terrible [bellyache] until i until my system became accustom to it
and uh by the same token when my husband and i first married he was accustomed to a a greasy diet lots of fried foods
and i nearly died then because i was accustomed to fresh vegetables and baked meats or broiled meats or grilled meats i prefer my meat grilled to fried anytime i may do a little stir fry or a little wok or something like that
but i do not fry my foods that much anymore
used to
but i don't anymore
two reasons one
it's just not that healthy
and i makes my stomach upset second it's a big mess to clean up
i'm not interested in cleaning up a mess
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
why don't you start first and i'll think about it
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
i would say our dinners are probably more casual than that with um having kids and that kind of stuff
it may be [inviting] you know neighbors over for dinner or something like that
but not really
we haven't really tried a dinner party i guess
yeah
or a barbecue or something like that
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
keeps the kids busy too
gives the grown ups a chance to
well like you said play a game or just talk or something like that
yeah
that's true
yeah
well i guess we we lived in kansas city for awhile
and it was kind of fun to do mexican food up there
because a lot of people didn't really hadn't had it before
and i know um we were going to make um fajitas one time
and the grocery stores i mean the people knew when i asked for the beef skirt that you use to make it they said are you from texas
so it's fun
yeah
well it you can either use we've always used um beef skirt steak
uh_huh
and then you can either grill it
or you can um [broil] it
we usually grill it outside and then you cut it into real small real thin pieces and serve it on flour tortillas with
like grated cheese and sour cream and guacamole and that type of thing
uh_huh
i think i was looking at this recipe
we're going to have some guests in in a couple of weeks
and they recommend a pound for four people
i think three to four people
yeah
it it's kind of a thin steak
and so it doesn't take very long to to grill
yeah
yes
uh_huh
well you just um well i usually just put it like in a [pyrex] pan you know i have an eight by or a nine by thirteen pan i put it in there
and i pour it over the top and then you just you know turn it leave it in there for overnight or something and turn it every once in awhile
maybe i usually cover it with saran wrap or something
and then or start it in the morning and it's ready in the evening to cook
uh_huh
oh yeah
the whole yeah
yeah
that would make it nice and easy and some people like sour cream and then you like warm your um flour tortillas up in the oven
i usually just wrap them up in foil or something like that
and stick them in the oven for awhile
in fact as a wedding gift we got a tortilla warmer
but i don't think very many people have those
and it doesn't hold very many tortillas so we don't use that often
probably yeah
because once you get the meat in there
it gets pretty filling oh you can
yeah
i i'm not into the hot hot food my my husband is but i'm not so
uh_huh
the hottest yeah
oh well good
well it's nice talking to you
where do you live in indiana
i have some relatives that live up um near [terre] [haute]
oh okay
yeah
well i know when we flew up there
we flew into indianapolis and then had to drive down there
so
well thank you you too
okay  
who do you think  
the dallas cowboys  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're going to get better  
i mean you know  
yeah  
as long as troy aikman doesn't get hurt again  
that kind of killed them at the end of the season last year  
so i don't i don't even know who your favorite team is actually  
okay  
i think i did know that i just forgot  
okay  
yeah  
has herschel walker done much for them  
definitely  
well he was a good player i guess  
well i don't know  
he just never  
i don't know  
for a while there  
well he could always get past you know he'd get past like six or seven [tackles] and just keep spinning around and get on into the end zone  
but um i guess you never could really see him play because with the cowboys while he was with the team the rest of the team was pretty poor  
so you couldn't really tell if it was just him or the team  
and i always just assumed that he was too good for the rest of the team  
but i don't know  
emmett smith  
yeah  

he's been doing real good  
i'm   pretty impressed with him so far  
did he did he actually play in the pro bowl  
i remember he was like a backup  
and then somebody got injured  
and he was supposed to go  
yeah  
i kind of i haven't been keeping up with football i mean in the fall  
i i can go on and on about football  
but since it's kind of off season it's kind of hard to think back about all that  
but uh  
yeah  
um i have no idea  
no [earthly] idea  
how did they end up this year  
did they did they make it to the play offs at all  
uh_huh  
kind of like the cowboys huh  
except i think the cowboys are on the [upswing]  
i don't know about the vikings  
just hadn't heard much about them lately  
yeah  
well the cardinals i don't know  
i think the cowboys probably have a a better team  
they just  
at the end of the season the kind of got messed up with aikman getting hurt because uh [laufenberg] just couldn't ever really get it together at all  
of course he sat along the [sidelines] all season  
he never really got in a game never did a whole lot  
well i'm just saying i shouldn't i shouldn't blast him like that say oh well [laufenberg] got out there and blew it for them  
i mean he didn't get to see much action but too bad  
because now now you know he had a shot and and didn't look too good  
and so no one's going to have much faith in him any more  
in fact i think they're getting a different guy for a backup quarterback  
i haven't uh i haven't kept up with it lately  
but i remember reading something a few months ago about them signing somebody else on or or trying to go after somebody or trade for somebody  
but it wasn't anybody i'd really heard of  
but i heard on the radio this morning or yesterday morning that uh [aikman's] back in practicing doing real real well  
um who is it michael [irvin]  
he said that uh aikman was hitting him right on the numbers every time  
so sounds like he's going to be all right for next season  
they're just trying not to [overwork] him right now until he gets his shoulder uh back in  
it was his shoulder wasn't it that he had the problems with  
i think it i think it was his shoulder he had surgery on  
but anyway they're trying to keep him you know keep him uh from [reinjuring] anything but anyway  
thirty day notice for what  
oh really  
what  
oh okay  
maybe i'll call you back after after the recording is finished  
actually i think we have talked about football for five minutes  
i can't remember  
really  
i usually have too  
yeah  
i've done that once or twice  
i didn't look at the clock when we started talking  
so i guess we should talk about football a little bit longer just to be sure we got five minutes in  
yeah  
so other than the vikings who do you like  
uh-oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
back when they were in saint louis  
since they've been to phoenix they haven't been uh all that impressive i guess  
i guess i've always been a cowboy fan  
other than that i mean you know when i've you know when you grow up in a city that has the you know one of the greatest football teams until the last few years you kind of tend to get caught up in it  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean it it was really exciting   growing up when when the cowboys were really big  
because my parents would always have season tickets  
and they'd go to all the games  
and you know the hype were just unbelievable  
it's just you know the last oh  
i guess probably since about eighty four about eighty five was when they started kind of going downhill really  
but you know i'm just used to always growing up and hearing cowboys cowboys cowboys and you know super bowl and all this other stuff  
so i can't you know  
i'm not going to decide i don't like them just because they're having a few bad years  
i mean i think they'll pull out of it  
and you know they'll they'll wind up being good again  
they've got some lot of really good young players that are going to that are going to uh do pretty good i think  
but they're raising prices on their tickets  
so they're banking on doing good next season  
i think tickets are  
yeah  
thirty or thirty two for really good tickets  
see they they [sectioned] it out even more  
they used to just have like uh  
first of all it was all one price  
and then they [sectioned] it out to end zone and then everything else  
and now they're [sectioning] it off to like from the from one twenty yard line to the other one  
just on the lower levels is the highest price  
and then the next highest price is that same area but above it on the upper level  
and then like from the twenty to the ten yard line  
and then they're some sections kind of in the corner areas  
and then the cheapest of course is going to be the end the direct end zones  
but um they have about four or five different prices now  
that they're [structuring] it with  
but obviously yeah they're all going up more or less is what it's going to do  
um you know i'm not sure  
i'm not positive  
i didn't i didn't really think about that  
i just remember trying to figure out where you could get  
that was real close to the good section but in the little bit cheaper  
but not that i'll ever go  
i hadn't been to a cowboys game  
time last time i went to the cowboys game was during that um n f l strike or the when they had the scab team teams in there  
and it was the uh dallas and washington redskins game  
and i went because my dad can usually get a hold of some free tickets because a lot of those doctors have season tickets  
and they um if they're not going to use them they'll give them to somebody else  
so my dad i went with my dad to a game that one time  
but that wasn't a real you know  
it was it was the scab teams  
it was kind of you know it was kind of different i guess  
and before that it's been quite a few years  
i've been wanting to go to a game  
i just never never have gotten around to it  
so maybe this year  
oh  
so who's your uh favorite team  
the dallas [cowgirls] huh  
well they did have a fairly decent year finally this year  
at least they're coming around  
well i mean you know i think uh once jimmy johnson gets his system established uh they'll do all right  
uh_huh  
i'm a [viking] fan  
and they haven't been doing too hot  
so  
no  
in fact in fact the cowboys got the best end of that deal  
i've never been over impressed with him  
well who's the running  
is it [sammy] smith  
or is it emmett smith  
emmett smith  
yeah  
i'm not sure  
who else is uh-oh  
there's you know mike  
minnesota vikings used to be the general manager starting the world football league  
so and and he was trying to keep uh uh  
i can't even think of the guy's name either the coach of the vikings  

jerry burns  
he was going to keep him as the coach somehow  
but uh i don't know  
i'd like to see the vikings get revamped somehow  
well they started out really bad  
they went like one and six  
and then they won five or six in a row  
so they were in a shot to make the play offs  
and they screwed up the last couple of games  
yeah  
i guess you can  
yeah  
and the cardinals were kind of like the  
in fact they were doing better than the cowboys  
and the cowboy cowboys came on strong at the end of the season  
and the cardinals got killed by the cowboys  
so  
oh don't made any excuses for him  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't know  
yeah  
i think it was  
but uh well i got my thirty day notice yesterday  
um i'm done where i work  
so anyway i guess we can't talk much more about that  
but i just thought i'd throw that in there  
oh  
i've always ran out of time ever since i've done this  
they always say you've talked your ten minute limit  
make sure we get our cash flow  
um actually when i was younger i was a [cardinal] fan too  
remember jim hart  
jim hart was playing  
terry [metcalf] was on the cardinals  
this was a long time ago  
um i don't know who else i've ever  
that's about it  
i was always a [viking] fan  
i think i was into the cardinals for a little bit  
and  
yes  
oh of course  
yeah  
well the cowboys were america's football team  
there's no question about that  
so  
again  
what are they going up to thirty bucks or something  
so now the tickets even got lower than the lowest one last year  
that's interesting  
i almost lost our electricity here  
okay  
guess  
i bet you can't guess  
you got it  
and i want to tell you something  
they're going to go somewhere pretty shortly  
yeah  
i think they are because they're getting better every year  
and uh they   got a lot  
i don't think so  
we went to the playoffs  
yeah  
yeah  
now i like them too  
they are  
they are doing a whole bunch better  
who's   their quarterback  
who's their quarterback  
yeah  
yeah  
i like to watch them too  
they're the  
i like to watch almost all the football  
but um of course i watch every saints game that i can watch  
but i think they're going to i think they're really going to do good because it seems like they're finally all coming together  
if they would just quit blowing it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really bad  
but they got so much bad publicity too  
and i think that hurt a lot of you know   people even wanting to play on their team  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
because all the problems  
i mean if you think about those years that we had the losing season of how bad  
i mean his players were constantly getting kicked off the team because of drugs because of   uh you know messing with young children  
and i mean it was just one thing it seemed like right after the other   with them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
but uh that jimmy johnson came in too though  
and he just you know  
when he bought the team and all and it just seemed like he just decided you know this is the way it's going to be  
and it was bad  
i mean it really was  
to me it was like it's going to take them quite a while to rebuild  
because everything i mean anything that tom landry wanted or had he was going to change it  
i mean it's  
i mean you know that's the way i felt about it  
but   i tell you what  
if new orleans ever gets a quarterback   isn't nobody going to beat us  
there ain't nobody going to beat us then  
because look how good we did without a quarterback this year  
well   they   had quite a few quarterbacks if you think about it uh  
[fourcade] was for a while  
and then um i can't remember that guy's name the one that held out for the money  
and he was across the river  
uh i can't think of the i can't think of his name now  
but really we didn't have a quarterback  
that   was the whole problem  
we had one guy that couldn't throw  
and we had one guy that couldn't run  
and it was it was just [bedlam]  
we really didn't have a quarterback  
it was uh defense won all the games  
i don't know  
because you know they gave away a lot of their drafts   for different people for   you know other places  
so i don't know  
i hadn't heard you know whether they have a new one or not  
but uh  
uh_huh  
not yet  
but i mean i don't know whether they have one of the first you know   choices of somebody  
that would be real good  
i mean  
everybody gets in draft  
but i don't know whether they'll be far enough up where they can do any good  
but uh  
right  
but we   really i mean really and truly we just don't have a quarterback  
that's all there is to it  
but the players and stuff they finally quit giving away the really good players and started keeping them too  
because we had some  
you remember when archie [manning] was a quarterback  
yeah  
well he was good  
but we every time we'd get a real good player they'd treat him bad  
and of course we had a different coach then too  
but they'd treat him bad  
and then he'd leave   or either they'd trade him off to somebody else for two of these [nobodies]  
and it was weird  
it was like they were trying if you were good boy let's don't have you on our team you know  
but um this year they had all good players except for the quarterback  
the quarterback all of them every one that they played  
i think they played uh  
i can't remember whether we played three or four quarterbacks  
but all of them were bad  
i mean they were terrible  
they could not pitch  
you know they couldn't even take [handoffs]  
it was   terrible  
but uh   all the other places   i mean our defense was unbelievable  
did you get to watch any of their games  
yeah  
yeah  
um do you watch it every sunday  
um  
did you ever get to watch any of the uh new orleans games  
i'm a   um  
no  
teams in your area  
i know it  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
that's neat  
yeah  
yes  
oh my goodness  
no  
because usually it's snowing  
ice and rain and everything  
but i tell you what  
if you get to watch some of these  
now i don't know how it will be this year you know  
but i mean these games go right down to the wire  
it was like i was sitting on the edge of my chair you know going oh no no  
and one uh  
i can't remember  
it was about uh  
it was right close to when we was going to find out if we was going to get to be in the playoffs   or not  
so we're watching the game  
all right  
the other team got the ball  
and we had like no we got the ball back  
that's the way it was  
and they had to kick and uh to know whether we were going to win the game or lose a game because they got one point ahead of us  
so we had to sit there you know  
and they cut the show off and started showing us another football game  
we did not get to see the end of the game  
you talk about people calling in  
it was wild  
i mean here everybody is sitting on the edge of their chair   you know  
and they changed it and gave us another game in the middle of another you know one that was going on  
cut us off right there the last few seconds  
the station finally you know how they'll put the little message down at the bottom   started telling everybody that they were not the ones that had cut that off that it was the national   you know  
uh_huh  
because it was funny  
i mean everybody was furious  
i was so mad i got up and went and called you know  
i couldn't believe that  
but almost every game that i watched it would come right down to the end  
we would be ahead you know  
but then at the in the fourth quarter they'd let them get up there either with them or you know right ahead of them  
and it'd come right down to the end  
and either we made it or we didn't  
oh and it was it was something else  
i said this is the most  
if we had a quarterback this year we would have went to the super bowl  
there's no question about it because everybody was playing good together except the quarterbacks  
and the quarterbacks just didn't do anything  
yes  
but maybe we maybe we'll get your guy  

so who is your favorite football team  
well i would say the saints after   since  
what's that  
yeah  
yeah  
can't   call them the new orleans [ain'ts] any more  
no  
yeah  
well i'm a i'm a buffalo bills fan   from a   from a long time ago  
so it's good to it's good to see the bills doing so well now  
and  
yeah  
what's that  
uh jim kelly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well the  
it  
the the n f l draft really seems to be doing its job  
because got teams like like buffalo who weren't certainly weren't a powerhouse uh ten years ago  
now they've been able to get some good players and come around  
and  
new orleans the same story  
and uh a few years ago denver was a powerhouse  
and then they uh they weren't getting the draft picks  
and now the uh other team  
so it seems to be uh moving around and uh to to new [orleans'] benefit  
and uh you see how  
look at the cowboys now  
they're uh they're hurting   and uh  
yeah  

yeah  
well yeah  
uh firing tom landry and hiring jimmy johnson  
what what kind of uh uh  
doesn't give you much respect for their team at all  
any any team that where the owner would fire tom landry you know is like one of the greatest coaches of all time  
and just because they had had a couple of bad seasons  
and you can't even [attribute] those bad seasons to bad coaching  
right  
right  
and he  
and uh had a lot of trouble with injuries too  
you know he'd uh never seem to be able to keep his guys healthy  
and then even like uh what is it eric [dickerson] left   the team you know  

you're right  
you know like people were jumping ship right and left  
and i don't know  
that sounds to me more like the front office problem than coaching problem  
but then the team was sold  
so  
yeah  
right  
well   yeah  
i know  
who was the quarterback  
see i can't even think of who the new orleans quarterback   is  
yeah  
huh  
did they were they able to draft anybody this year  
uh_huh  
right  
well when is the   n f l draft  
hasn't has the n f l draft even gone yet  
right  
right  
well they've  
yeah  
they've  
sure  
right  
or even making the playoffs  
so that doesn't doesn't help you in the draft  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that was a few years ago  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
huh  
right  
oh that's one   it's one thing  
yeah  
[buffalo's]   lucky though to have uh jim kelly than  
now he's the number one rated quarterback in the n f l i think  
i'm pretty sure he was this past season  
and uh then with uh uh the defense with bruce bruce smith there at [linebacker] there they've got a very well rounded team  
and it seems that they've gotten over their [bickering] and their fighting as they problems they had in the past  
and now they're uh really playing as a good together as a team  
so  
uh when i can  
i'm a i'm a musician  
and uh the band i play in uh i  
this is just something on the side  
and uh the band i play in we tend to [rehearse] quite a bit on sundays  
so i missed a lot of sundays during   this  

i i'd have to confess i don't really scope out the new orleans games per se  
new orleans just isn't isn't one of the areas  
i've lived in so many places  
i've lived in uh denver  
but i don't like the broncos  
there's   no love for the broncos  
but   i've lived in uh uh  
i was born in buffalo  
and i lived in uh outside of boston for five years  
and then my family lives in philadelphia now  
and uh so i tend to look for uh uh  
and i lived in detroit too  
so i like uh  
first of all first and foremost the bills games i want to see  
and then i'll uh normally check out the eagles or the patriots  
and patriots were so depressing this last year that   yeah that uh   i kind of gave up on them  
but uh first and foremost the bills  
i even  
i went to got to go to a bills game this year which was fun  
it was the the bills eagles game which appropriately enough   fortunately   the bills won  
and it was good weather  
we beat buffalo in in uh was it third of december  
and   it was sunny and forty five degrees  
so we couldn't a done much better than that in buffalo  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
sure  
and then they changed the game  
right  
right  
right  
it was the network  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's the that's the guy that counts  
oh i   i don't think jim kelly is about to be swayed away from the bills any time  
well hang on  
let me try it again because usually um  
yeah  
um  
well let me try it once more  
well i think we're on maybe  
i guess we'll find out  
so in maryland are you uh are you a skins fan  
yeah  
oh okay  
so you were out there in san francisco  
oh yeah  
oh  
yeah  
it's um um other than the uh the big catch uh with the forty niners and the cowboys back a few year ago i like san francisco  
but uh i i don't know  
i i never really was a cowboys fan until i moved down to texas  
yeah  
i'm in dallas  
and uh uh i guess when you're down here in dallas you finally get indoctrinated into the cowboys   um because uh you know this is a big football territory down here  
and uh uh unfortunately of course the cowboys have been doing so bad in the past few years  
that uh uh  
i don't know  
everybody's kind of  
they're still behind them  
but uh it's not like it used to be  
that's right  
but i think uh actually uh in in trying to follow uh you know the cowboys over the years i think uh uh they used to have a um a philosophy for well i don't know probably the last twenty five years except for about the last about five or six years   uh they always went out and tried to draft the the best um athletes   and didn't really put them draft for any particular spot  
but they would go out and try to go for uh the best people and then mold them into different areas or find their natural niche  
and then about five years ago four or five years ago uh they started going after uh uh specific players or positions you know  
like the press would get down on landry  
and this is when [schramm] was still there  
and um they'd go after them saying uh jeez what you really need is a defensive end  
so they'd go out and try to find a defensive end  
and when they when they drafted somebody and he didn't workout at that spot it really wasn't a good enough athlete to move to any place else  
and uh so i think it was kind ever interesting  
i think the decline of the uh of the cowboys as a powerhouse really kind of started with uh not drafting people the best athletes  
yeah  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
uh they still have some some uh some draft picks uh   that they got  
no  
actually they picked up some from minnesota  
i think it was uh minnesota's  
yeah  
they traded walker  
yeah  
that's okay  
they um um  
i've got a friend that uh lives right next to the [cowboys'] training camp  
and uh uh he gets he sees them out running a lot  
and every once in a while gets a chance to talk to some of the guys  
and they're all uh they're all thinking that uh man they they they really got something going this year  
but i i guess uh when you have a whole bunch of uh professional athletes that get together at the beginning of the year everybody's got great hopes  
you   know i guess it's the same way with baseball or or anybody you know  
spring training until you actually start going out and getting uh getting out against the competition everything probably looks pretty good  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
they did as a matter of fact uh  
yeah  
well you don't uh you don't like the skins  
oh okay  
jeez  
well of course  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah um  
of course then you're not that far from philadelphia  
oh okay  
i  
it was buddy ryan the one that i can't uh uh stand too much  
yeah  
really oh  
uh_huh  
uh-oh jeez  
yeah uh  
actually uh you said you lived near uh baltimore  
you're out uh  
i used to travel out that way a lot  
and uh actually i used to drive a lot between baltimore and washington  
and  
um no  
oh okay  
yeah  
i used to go out of b w i a lot  
oh yeah  
is that near near the what do they  
i forgot the name of it  
is it the the wharf or the the uh   inner harbor  
yeah  
great  
um   yeah  
i tell you what i  
the  
there's  
the colts still you know still to me are the baltimore colts  
you know  
oh okay  
jeez  
yeah  
so uh uh you know did you graduate from purdue  
delaware  
oh there's not a whole lot in delaware  
yeah  
that's true  
i take it you're an east coast type guy   plus the west   coast right  
i guess we're on  
do you usually get a message  
um  
hang on let me check on it  
i don't know  
okay  
yeah  
um well not not really from you know  
i really wasn't from here  
so uh the teams i really root for in football are the niners and the seahawks um you know mostly because only the niners because i used to live out in california   you know like i like seattle because i like seattle  
and besides i like the city  
uh yeah  
san jose actually but   but close  
yeah  
oh okay  
oh is that where you are now  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know you you back the winners  
and you don't back them when they're not doing well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it makes sense because you know you you've got the flexibility if they're good athlete they can you know do a bunch of different things  
um  
and i don't you know  
my my my my main sport is baseball  
but you know um i've been enjoying football  
but i don't know it as well  
um i just you know um  
cowboys are going to have a problem aren't they  
is it is it this year they don't have a draft pick because of the walker trade  
or what was the whole deal on that  
they don't   have anything high do they  
oh that's right  
that's right  
they  
it went the other way  
what was i thinking  
they gave up they they traded herschel   to minnesota  
yeah  
okay  
my brain is really working well tonight  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i mean you know if you go to  
i i you know i'm sure if you go to any of the twenty eight coaches in football in training camp they say oh we're going to be super bowl [champs]  
because   i know i know in baseball you know any manager you go to say well we're going to be in the world series   even though you know there's not a prayer  
uh  
this is the way it is  
well [kim] i mean didn't the cowboys even finish  
they finished pretty close to five hundred last year didn't they  
because they only won one game the year before right  
okay  
yeah  
i enjoyed that because it was against the skins  
um no  
i i i live near baltimore  
and um um i i really don't like d c a whole lot at all  
and um i mean i'm really  
they they got a big thing because of the you know the the expansion going on in baseball  
d c is like talking about how how they're going to get a baseball team and everything  
it's like you guys aren't going to get a baseball team i'm sorry it's not going to happen  
but of course you know the the the one the [griping] is that if you know if if washington doesn't get a uh a baseball team then baltimore shouldn't get a football team which is probably true  
but anyway um i just i've never liked d c a whole lot  
and a really hate the redskins   and a lot of it's because you know i got a lot of people you know at work with and everything that are big [redskin] fans  
yeah  
i've i've never liked philadelphia the city a whole lot  
the only reason i really enjoy the eagles at all is because uh i really like randall cunningham  

well considering how how well he gets along with uh jimmy johnson that doesn't surprise me  
yeah  
there was um uh there was this uh in  
the baltimore sun has this uh [cartoonist] in the sports section  
and uh when uh  
last  
i guess it was january when um jimmy johnson got named coach of the year or whatever  
it was the same year that buddy ryan got fired  
and uh he had this cartoon in there about jimmy johnson's big day you know  
the first thing is the phone call from the you know from the league saying he was uh um you know uh was coach of the year  
and the second was this phone call from buddy ryan i got fired can you believe that  
yeah  
no  
i lived  
do you know what [ellicott] city is  
uh it's just west of baltimore off off route seventy   yeah  
but well route seventy and and uh route forty  
um   oh okay  
yeah  
that's not far from where the uh the new football stadium would be if we got an n f l team  
yeah  
well they've they've built a new stadium downtown um  
it's opening next year  
so  
the inner harbor  
yeah  
it's um a couple of blocks west  
there's a big um there is an old railroad yard   basically um  
there's a big long railroad shed  
and then there's uh an old station  
and they're building the stadium on the other side of the shed from the inner harbor which is really stupid because one of the big selling points of the new stadium is supposed to be this view of the inner harbor  
and the only way you're going to have a view of is this big brick wall um  
but you know they're building the baseball stadium  
and they've got land set aside for a football stadium if they ever get a n f l team  
so it's um real easy access from from south of baltimore like um like the airport or more importantly for the orioles from washington d c  
the orioles say they get twenty five percent of their population i mean uh their [attendance] from d c  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they really ought to change the name i think in indianapolis  
i uh never been real thrilled with well not you know  
sitting here and talking about all the cities that i hate  
i uh i went to purdue university for a couple of years and uh   really learned to hate indianapolis while i was out there  
and um i was not real happy when uh when they uh left to go go there of all places  
no  
i i uh i transferred to delaware and graduated there  
yeah  
yeah  
but it's close to philadelphia and baltimore  
so it's  
uh kind of all over the place but     east coast lately  
uh i don't know  
i'm not a real uh great football follower  
i guess there are two basic teams that i seem to follow every year  
one is the dallas cowboys  
and the other is the oklahoma sooners  
uh being a native okie i uh i like to keep up with what the [homeboys] are doing uh  
no  
no  
it's funny  
uh i got out and got my bachelor's degree in uh seventy three and uh never went to a game there and have never gone to a game since  
but i always enjoyed watching them  
i just  
growing up in oklahoma there it was always the home team kind of like dallas is around here  
and there's always been an interest there  
yeah  
i guess you keep those things you grew up with  
i worked in uh missouri for a while  
and uh i was probably the only one in the room several times when we were watching football on t v when the cowboys were playing the saint louis cardinals  
and i was rooting for the cowboys  
but they were kind of closer to home when when i struck up with them  
i really don't know what's going to take place with the cowboys this year  
everybody keeps talking about the [reconstruction] they're going through and new players and how next year is going to be even bigger and better than the previous year  
in a way that happened this past season  
and i think that's quite a bit of [optimism] around here that still there's a chance that maybe uh these guys are right maybe they will come through and and do something this year  
i look for it to be a pretty good year  
they did  
uh they got rid of a lot of familiar names and got a lot of names in that we weren't weren't familiar with  
some of them turned out to be pretty good players  
uh some of them didn't  
and you know maybe the stuff that uh jerry jones is talking about the construction and [redefining] the team and maybe the effort might be starting to pay off  
at least we hope it will  
yeah  
but they have always been a really strong team  
once the pressure gets turned on they they seem to loose it  
see that's the typical [trait] of the dallas cowboys   and the oklahoma sooners  
it's funny over the years  
it's   it's been a rough tow a rough road to hoe ever since he left  
i don't know why it's so hard to find uh a good quarterback these days  
well yeah  
you know he was one of the few who come through in history that can really perform  
uh we hope  
every team hopes their current quarterback is going to pull them through  
in a way aikman has done some of that  
but uh the guy winds up getting hurt every other game  
yeah  
they did  
they put a lot of pressure on him from the outside and from the inside  
uh it's funny watching them them play  
he's probably like a lot of quarterbacks uh  
when the pressure is really on when it's down to the last few minutes of the game for the season is when the guys seem to really do their best  
and i haven't quite figured that out  
if they figure they have got it won or if there's no real hurry because the first three quarters or uh if uh if something happens that that [adrenalin] starts flowing they say hey we got to do something now and then start playing the game the way the game should be played toward the last few minutes  
so i don't know  
i'm looking for a good year  
i guess we're always looking for a good year  
uh no  
i don't think the cowboys have got a chance  
i think they will probably win one or two more games than they did this year  
and they'll get close to it  
they'll probably get everybody's hopes up and blow it toward the end  
uh that's a good question  
uh i'm figuring either one either the eagles or possibly san francisco  
i'm not real sure  
they did  
so i don't know how these changes are going to help or [hinder] the team sometimes it brings in new motivation  
and all you can do is get out of the way because here they come  
well that's true  
they are tough  
and they're big  
they're mean  
and they are going to come right through you if you don't do something  
oh yeah  
yeah  
no  
no  
and it's funny  
you know you like to pull for the underdog  
and for a long time i was pulling for denver  
uh marino makes me just crazy mad sometimes because of some of the stupid stuff he does  
but he's a good quarterback  
he's got a good arm  
sometimes it's too good because he throws too hard  
i mean l a  
sorry  
oh yeah  
has it been uh snowing up there  
wow  
well that will make the skiers happy  
oh you bet  
oh yeah  
up around the [keystone] and copper mountain those guys will love that  
well good to talk to you  
you guys have a good time keep those printers coming  
all right  
bye  
oh okay  
i see  
so you make it uh to that longhorns sooners game  
every year  
how about that  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's kind of same for me  
i grew up in southern new jersey  
and the local team was philadelphia  
and they were like thirty miles right up the river  
and i'm still pretty much an eagle fan i guess  
yeah  
boy they uh they sure did have a big turn around from a couple of years ago  
yeah  
i'm i keep waiting for the eagles to get over the hump  
they make it to the playoffs it seems for the last few years  
but they just have done absolutely nothing when they got there  
and you know they've got a lot of the tools to do it  
but doggone if they can't just put it together uh you know  
they have got the quarterback there in [randal] cunningham who's just you know phenomenal  
but he he's too [streaky] it seems  
yeah  
yeah  
and without a whole lot of big name players  
they have got a few anchors on offense and defense  
and you know they they've managed with those guys  
and i don't know  
i guess yeah  
yeah  
i guess since staubach left they haven't been able to   keep it going  
well that that says a lot for the for his ability though i think   for [staubach's] i mean  
yeah  
i i tell you it's difficult in that guy's position coming into that because there he was just so highly [touted] by the press and everybody expected so many big things you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so obviously though do you think they're going to do anything in the playoffs to make it to the super bowl this year  
or who do you who do you like to do that this year  
so who's going to beat them  
who are they going to blow it to  
boy they'd some big changes speaking of them  
yeah  
i'm sure you know my [sentimental] favorite would have to be philadelphia  
but i i sure am scared of them giants  
those guys are tough  
yeah  
that that sure was a fun super bowl to watch this year  
i mean i wasn't pulling for either team  
but that was just a good football game  
uh_huh  
l a you mean  
boy speaking of denver on another subject i've been up there like five times in the last three four weeks  
yeah  
we've been trying get this new d n b two thousand printer up and running  
oh boy i was just up there  
i just got back last night around eleven thirty or so  
and it was about seven inches of snow on the ground  
and it snowed all day  
oh yeah  
yeah  
if if  
it snowed that much in denver you know  
they got that much up in the mountains you know just west of there  
yeah  
enjoyed it bob  
hey  
we'll do it  
bye  
well a lot of women are as knowledge about football as i am  
can i guess your favorite team if you had one might be the steelers  
well i can understand that  
i you know i kind of like the cowboys too  
they've had some great games in the past  
uh_huh  
me too  
it wasn't nearly as much fun when bradshaw was playing for you guys i'll tell you  
he lives in the dallas area now as a matter of fact  
well actually it's probably closer to fort worth  
but it's it's in the same area  
he bought uh bought a big horse farm out in a little town called [roanoke] texas  
but he pops up on the dallas scene quite often  
as a matter of fact there was some talk about trying to get him involved with the team management in some sort of a coaching job  
i don't know  
he'd be good at it  
he's such a motivator he   primarily you know with the quarterbacks  
that would be his specialty  
i wished i wished they could work something  
i really like him  
i really do  
yeah  
okay  
i'd love to see dallas and houston play in a super bowl  
that would be really great  
that may not ever happen  
i don't know  
uh houston has had some wonderful talent you know down through the years  
and in the earlier years they really had some super teams  
that's right  
he certainly is  
he's very good  
he's very good  
that's right  
randall cunningham was with philadelphia i guess last year  
but he's no longer with the team  
so you're right  
there are very few black quarterbacks or at least that are starting anyway  
how do you think the steelers are going to do this year  
you have any idea  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that was just such super team  
yeah  
well that's a tough  
it would be tough to do  
it really would  
they have such a super team for years that won what four super bowls  
four in a row  
i don't know if that could ever be [duplicated] again or not  
yeah  
that's right  
and  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
he may have been the last of the old guard  
i don't know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they had such a super team  
have you been following the big draft that occurred yesterday  
i see  
there's quite a bit of activity now  
of course they had so many you know nice uh choices because their record was so lousy the last few years  
they picked up   you know quite a few of the  
of course you never know  
the guys they pick you know may never play a game  
you never know  
it's it's a [gamble]  
it really is  
they may get hurt or not be able to participate at that level if you know  
ever been  
probably an old guy that played probably before you were born  
his name was sam [huff]  
he used to play for the new york giants  
that was one of the toughest guys that i've ever seen in my life   as far as you know dedication  
he just went all out every single play  
of course there have been some other great ones too dick [butkis] and bradshaw you know  
there's been so many  
but if i had to pick one i would probably pick sam [huff] as a matter of fact  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
he is  
he is  
of course a quarterback has a big ego  
they really they have to have  
they can't survive  
they always think they can win you know which is the way it should be  
boy he never gave up i'll tell you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
i can't disagree with that  
they were super players  
they really were  
they really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
highlights yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's kind of funny too as a matter of fact  
some of them a a bit embarrassing  
yeah  
well they make mistakes too i guess  

absolutely  
uh_huh  
oh they   they take such a beating  
absolutely  
i don't know how they do it  
it's it must just take a hundred percent concentration i guess because they know they're going to get hit  
it's just a matter of how hard you know or where  
oh absolutely  
they look like sometimes they're just broken in two like a match stem  
gosh what a beating  
they really do take a beating  
they really do  
i think he was just probably a passing phenomena i think  
i don't know  
i i'm knowing what you know  
of course mike ditka was in dallas for years and years as coach is knowing his or you know knowing of his temperament i'm just surprised he ever you know kept the guy around  
i really am  
he's such a he's about a half hot head anyway such a temper  
uh_huh  
that's right yeah  
absolutely  
there's just so much mass there i guess they just can't  
i don't know you know  
i  
probably the guy is you know probably physically strong  
i you know  
obviously not very fast  
but i guess it's just like you say a mass that nobody can seem to get out of the way  
as far as him scoring touch downs you know i think that was kind of weird  
i don't know  
dallas has a guy uh his name is [nate] [newton]  
now he has a real weight problem too  
he fights it every single year  
but he manages to still keep playing  
but   he has a terrible weight problem  
they  
the coaches watch him all year long  
they they weigh him several times a year just to make sure he's not you know completely out of control  
but i guess most every team has has someone like that  
i don't  
absolutely they get bigger and bigger it seems every year  
i guess you have to to you know to stay in the game i guess  
yeah  
oh yeah  
sure  
well you'd have to uh or i would have to say you know someone like montana i guess who's done so well for so many years  
yeah  
his age is about to catch up with him though  
he's no spring chicken anymore  
and like you say warren [moon's] an excellent  
warren [moon's] an excellent  
but he's very exciting to watch  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
uh i'm  
obviously he's a very good quarterback  
i'd i never was you know too a whole lot of a big fan you know  
yeah  
he may uh_huh  
yes  
he was  
i believe that's right at one point in time  

but he's a very young fellow  
yeah  
of course a quarterback can look so good if he's got a lot if he's got a good supporting cast you know  
if not he gets beat to death like poor old troy aikman has the last couple of years anyway  
you  

dallas did better last year  
hopefully they'll do better this year  
that's right  
yeah  
[miami's] had some down years too  
but they all do i guess  
it's it's [cyclical] i guess   as the players get older get slower  
yeah  
with  
yeah  
oh yes very much so  
hip injuries and things like that yeah  
yeah  
that that forces a lot of the guys to get out of the game  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i read some time well not too long ago that the average uh professional career only lasts seven years  
so that's when you think about it that's really not a very long time of course  
but if the average is seven years that means a lot of guys don't make it seven years you know  
that's right yeah  
that's  
that's that's a pretty short career on average  
of course they play their you know cards right and do some good investments they'll you know they'll do all right  
but a lot of them don't unfortunately  
yeah  
they they're always [branded] you know as a bunch of outlaws  
and   if their if their you know arrest record won't let won't let them play anywhere else they seem to go to they seem to go to the raiders  
but that just may be you know perceived  
you know perception  
i don't know  
al davis is he's a kind of strange character strange strange looking guy  
apparently he's kind of a wild guy  
i don't really know for sure  
they've had some excellent teams though obviously  
i'm not sure they've yet decided where they want to play  
they keeping talk about you know going  
yes  
uh_huh  
do you  
uh_huh  
i i always enjoy watching the the dallas and pittsburgh together   you know  
does he really  
uh_huh  
oh  
i wonder if he'd ever do that  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what about the houston oilers  
do you like them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and warren moon   is is proving himself quite well right now  
uh_huh  
he's one of the few uh black quarterbacks that there are  
uh_huh  
i don't know  
i hope they they do better  
they they  
during the past couple of years they've been doing a little bit better  
but uh i think they still have a little i think they're still such a a young team i think they still have a little bit to go before they reach the potential   that it did when ever bradshaw was playing  
or if they even reach that potential again you know they may never reach that again  
uh_huh  
yeah  
four in a row  
oh i don't know  
shooting for one for the thumb now is what they were saying  
but basically everyone that was on the team then is gone now  
so  
i think mike [webster] was left  
but then he he just left  
uh  
yeah  
i think he is  
i think he was  
uh_huh  
no  
i didn't  
huh_uh  
uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well who would you say is your favorite player or has ever been your favorite player  
uh_huh  
oh  
really  
uh_huh  
yeah  

oh you know that's really funny um  
well i i come from a large family  
and there's quite a few boys  
so that's kind of how i got in with the football  
either watch that or watch nothing  
and um at one time i could name all the players on the steelers you know  
and but even when bradshaw was playing i i don't know i i didn't particularly care for him  
i thought he was kind of [cocky] or something  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
him and franco harris  
i really didn't care for the either two of them  
i mean they were good  
but i you know you couldn't deny that  
but i didn't i thought you know well i just didn't really care for either one of them  
uh today my favorites out of those guys were probably um [lambert]   ham   and uh [stallworth] and [swan]  
uh_huh  
i i i like not just with the pittsburgh i like watching on saturday afternoons when they'll have like the plays or the the best plays from   you know from the week or something  
yeah  
i love watching that  
then i like watching their [bloopers] too you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's funny that more people don't get hurt   you know especially i would say the [receivers]   when they're in the air and they get tackled  
oh yeah  
it's funny some of their necks don't get broken  
yeah  
an they have to be in ideal physical shape basically  
yeah  
well what did you think of um a couple years ago for the bears the refrigerator  
oh you know and to me he does um oh he's just so big and fat  
he doesn't even look like he's in shape  
he's just so big no one can move him  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
there's there are some really big guys playing in football  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you would uh_huh  
um now who  
would you say that you have a  
i mean other than dallas would you say that you have uh a favorite quarterback  
i mean the quarterback's seem to get most of the the attention you know  
yeah  
i i i enjoy watching him play  
no  
but he's still performing  
yes he is  
i i i enjoy watching him also  
what about uh marino  
i think he'll get better as he gets older   because he he well he was the youngest quarterback there was wasn't he  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
uh probably around twelve uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i didn't i don't know  
i i just think you know marino will get better  
and uh his team's not as good as what it was when he went to the super bowl   you know  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  

and with age comes   you know  
the the  
i'm sure arthritis sets in with them   you know  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and they're so young  
but they're retired you know  
and their so young still   oh  
oh yeah  
but then you think about how many have been in there longer than that  
yeah  
a lot of them would have to get out like in just a couple  
holy smokes i didn't that doesn't seem like very long  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um what do you think of the uh l a raiders  
used to the the oakland  
yeah  
yes  
they have  
real excited when i heard this  
so far i've been trying to call all day because i keep getting these subjects like capital punishment  
so   football i love this  
this is great  
well we're from colorado  
so we're bronco fans  
and um we just moved here two years ago  
and they went to the superbowl when we first moved here  
and they lost again  
that was pretty pitiful  
but they seem to be doing pretty good this year  
oh  
yeah  
well they haven't they haven't have they just lost one game this year  
two  
yeah  
but they're not doing bad  
people are pretty surprised that they i mean they beat the giants  
i bet  
oh boy i bet all the men that got direct down there were just right on it  
yep  
yeah  
yeah  
well i am i'm a big football fan  
i never  
my father was a football fan my whole life  
and he used to have the football pool at the office and all this stuff  
and i just hated it  
and i think i was just mad because he spent so much time watching football on sundays  
and uh so when i met my husband he was watching football  
and i figured out that i couldn't see him all weekend  
i couldn't see him until like tuesday because monday night football if i didn't   like football  
so  
yep  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i do  
i just i love it  
it's such i just think it's such a fun sport  
and uh i'm just hoping that the broncos can get back on their feet  
we're not convinced that we're going to be cowboy fans yet  
but uh  
well i guess we'll first have to get to used to the idea that we're staying here  
that's even harder  
but  
no  
we're just  
this is only the second place we've lived  
we've only been married for five and a half years  
and uh we have two small children  
and he had a uh just got transferred here to e systems  
so  
oh  
well i tell you this  
the weather here and there's no mountains or anything you know  
and when you go to a football game in colorado that's you know there's snow  
and it's an adventure  
and here yeah   you've just got to drive down to the to the stadium  
and uh  
yes  
well he's from here  
so   yeah  
that's what i hear  
which is rare  
which is good  
yeah  
but uh i  
you know it's funny  
in in colorado when the broncos went to the superbowl three times in the last i don't know five or six years whatever it's been um they have these songs on the radio  
they take popular songs and and change them to fit uh the broncos and stuff  
and they had  
i was just thinking about one the other day  
uh if i saw a picture of john elway in the in the cafeteria at school um  
but they did the johnny angel  
they did johnny elway to that  
and and i was trying to get my son to sing that  
my husband was just having a fit don't have him sing that song  
but they they do a lot of fun things  
i think football is football is kind of a a sport that i think you kind of it's hard not to like it  
because you know there's just  
it's exciting  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they  
i i wish i would have bought the tape when i was in uh in colorado  
because uh i i think about that a lot  
but you know when i first moved here was when they well no i guess it was about a year ago they did this  
this interstate seventy five song   or whatever it was about central expressway and getting it done in nineteen ninety five and everything  
that was kind of a funny song  
but they sure do  
it seems to me like they really love their cowboys here  
even when they were losing [pitifully] you know people still support them  
we drive by some houses everyday that have big signs  
we love the  
oh yes  
well i was from illinois originally  
and i grew up a bear fan  
and uh then we moved here  
even when we knew we were being transferred here we became cowboy fans  
and we had some wonderful wonderful years there under roger staubach  
and we kind of got spoiled  
we expected it to continue forever  
i think they're doing pretty well this year though  
i think two  
i know they lost yeah to washington and philadelphia  
yeah  
and wasn't that fun  
i went to the [balloon] festival in plano and carried my little portable radio with me  
and i must say i attracted a lot of attention  
people running up saying oh what's the score what's the score  
that's right  
and that's exactly what they said my wife dragged me away from the television  
you know but i wasn't  
i had forgotten  
or i probably wouldn't have been there  
yeah  
that's exactly where both of the wives came from i think  
it was uh you know  
it's easier to join them than fight them  
and if you want to see them you might just as well enjoy football  
and i used to tease my husband sometimes and say my gosh did you bet the house or something this week to get so excited about   these games  
well it takes a little [brainwashing] first  
yeah  
are you uh transit usually  
i mean do you stay not in one place too long  
well it will take you a little while  
but you'll probably always have a soft spot in your heart though for   for denver  
oh i know  
well if they close it in see we'll have the best of both worlds then   as they're talking about doing  
but uh dan reeves is a pretty neat guy anyway  
yeah  
that's right you know  
he was one of ours one of our boys  
so we are never we never cheer against denver unless they're playing the cowboys  
yeah  
uh_huh  
johnny elway  
well there is so much about it   to like  
you know   it's so exciting  
and when the cowboys won the superbowl here of course they put together some real cute songs  
and we all ran out and bought the records  
and now we feel like they're kind of a [collector's] item  
uh_huh  
so who's your favorite team  
pittsburgh  
i used to be a big pittsburgh fan when i was little  
oh really  
huh  
that's pretty nice  
yeah  
that's good  
i i used to watch them a lot when they were playing the big iron curtain   or steel curtain  
huh  
well last year it was buffalo  
and i i still try to keep up with buffalo because they just they just impressed me as being so efficient  
and they never score  
they never blow out their [opponents]  
they just score just enough points  
and that really impressed me  
but then down here i  
is pretty close to new orleans  
and i've been keeping up with the saints a lot  
yeah  
the saints are starting to impress me this year you know a lot  
this it they are really  
did you see the game sunday night or   sunday afternoon  
it was funny  
there were they uh a fireworks display at halftime  
yeah  
and some paper or something in the super dome up in the roof caught on fire  
so they had to stop the game in lieu of the third quarter   and put out this fire  
those big piece of something came [flaming] falling out of the roof and landed on the field  
so there's this big fire on the field  
and they were dumping the [gatorade] bucket and everything  
it was  
i mean you just really can't tell what's going to happen  
i know  
it's like about two weeks ago i was watching the saints  
and morton anderson kicked a sixty yard field goal  
and it it was beautiful right down the middle  
he is  
yes  
uh i   i sure hope so  
i'm not sure i'm not sure who they play  
right now i've got it narrowed down to the top four teams  
it's pretty much going between washington they are undefeated   and uh buffalo new orleans and chicago because chicago has only lost twice  
and one of those was to buffalo  
and they beat the saints  
their only time they lost  
houston  
i saw houston play this summer in memphis  
yeah  
uh from what i saw they were playing  
when i was at the game we sat right on the front row   right behind the houston oilers  
and from what i saw the game houston houston impressed me a lot  
but my brother watched it on t v and said that warren moon was just having an off night  
and if that was an off night i'd hate to see when he's on a good night  
he's  
yeah  
the their their [backfield] is really impressive  
[haywood] [jeffreys] and drew hill   and allen  
they really impress me  
that's right  
who who did they play  
dallas  
that's right  
all because  
that's right  
i remember that now  
do you have a favorite between those two  
really  
well that's true  
i hate to say it  
but i hate dallas  
yeah  
yeah  
i imagine  
that's the way  
i've never been a big saints fan until the last year or two  
and they they've actually started doing something  
so i've actually paid attention to them  
well do you know anything about the expansion teams they're thinking about bringing in  
really  
uh right now i think this memphis they're they're trying to get the teams  
and that's that's where i was when i saw uh   houston play  
saint louis is trying to get a team  
uh baltimore is trying to get a team  
and there's some other city  
i'm wanting to say raleigh durham  
but i'm not sure  
think so  
uh_huh  
because i know they've got a football team  
but i think it might be them  
i would definitely  
i think they are supposed to put two in by either next year or the year after  
and right now i think memphis and it's memphis and i think baltimore have a really good shot at it  
because i know saint louis is much bigger than memphis  
and when i went up there they were saying that memphis sold more tickets than saint louis did  
yeah  
it's like the liberty bowl or liberty stadium in memphis holds about sixty two  
my favorite team is the pittsburgh steelers  
you bet  
well i uh  
when john [stallworth] played he was from my hometown in alabama  
so i kind of grabbed on to that team   way back when  
that's right  
how about your favorite team  
uh_huh  
well they are exciting aren't they  
boy  
they are they are just a fun team to watch  
uh   no  
i didn't  
oh yeah  
oh you're kidding  
oh my  
oh i can't believe that  
that's hilarious  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh boy  
he is tough  
he has   an incredible leg  
well do you think they're they're going to be able to make it this year   past the first playoff game  
who's that  
right  
what do you think about uh houston  
oh yeah  
huh  
huh  
oh yeah  
he's   he definitely uh is one of the best i think  
right  
well they [squeaked] out a game on sunday  
they played dallas  
they won   in overtime  
so that was  
i i watched that game  
and uh that was uh  
well because i'm right here in dallas i i kind of pull for dallas  
yeah  
well also houston is uh in pittsburgh's division  
so   i'll almost always root against them  
that's okay  
well i you know i i was never really a big dallas fan   until we moved here  
and they just kind of grew on me  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
to tell you the truth i haven't paid too much attention to that  
um what cities are they looking at  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you know i think you are right  
i think it is raleigh  
i think i remember hearing that  
that would be fun  
i'd like to see some more teams get in  
uh_huh  
oh really  
okay  
oh well  
i'm sorry what  
i don't  
no  
i haven't recently um  
no  
i'm not  
no  
what's that  
yep  
are you married  
oh really  
wow  
so do you like football  
the the same here  
do you live in dallas  
yeah  
really  
i haven't  
huh_uh  
we we decided just to watch them at home  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right now i'm in um college  
so i'm more into college football than professional i think  
um i'm at b y u  
yeah  
so  
nursing  
yeah  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
um i haven't really picked a field  
i haven't i i don't know i've thought a lot about labor and delivery  
but   i don't know  
oh really  
wow  
is she a nurse in dallas  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
wow  
uh_huh  
well that's great  
oh thanks  
yeah  
um i'd like to come back to dallas  
right now i'm in utah of course  
so um  
but my family's there  
so  
yeah  
i'd like to go back  
are you in san antonio  
oh okay  
um  
right  
yeah  
my brother in law um is in the medical profession i mean he's at medical school in san antonio right now  
so  
yeah  
thanks  
all right  
well it's not often you get uh many women interested in football  
do you follow football very much  
do you follow football very much  
well we can talk about something else  
do you have any uh  
you married  
no  
well i guess kids are out  
kids are out  
yeah  
i i'm married  
got two boys  
yeah  
oh i follow the uh the cowboys  
but that's about it uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i i am a pretty big dallas fan been for a long time  
but i haven't been to any games recently  
but uh i try to catch the game every weekend that i can  
yeah  
have you ever been to a [cowboy's] game  
um it's pretty nice  
that's good  
at least you uh follow the game a little bit  
um yeah  
i'm not a fanatic about it  
i don't know who played when and who does what like some guys are  
i just like to watch  
and and hopefully they win  
that's about the extent of it  
oh i see  
what uh school are you going to  
b y u  
okay  
leslie what are you studying  
nursing  
great  
my mom's an l v n  
yeah  
so what are you planning to go into  
do you want to be an r n  
or  
uh_huh  
try that  
that's what my mom does labor and delivery  
yeah  
she loves it  
she she really uh enjoys  
no  
she's a nurse in san antonio  
but uh she's been she's been working a uh on a late shift  
she works the uh i guess the [graveyard's] what you'd call it  
she works the [graveyard] shift  
and she's worked that for oh years when i was small  
uh i guess probably going on twenty years now  
and she really enjoys it  
she likes the quiet that you have at that time of the night  
and uh and uh she's uh she just started a new job at a different hospital closer to where she lives  
and she's really enjoying herself  
she really likes it  
well good luck to you in pursuing your nursing degree  
hope you'll like it  
do you plan on staying in in the dallas area  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i think texas san antonio in particular has got a large uh base of hospitals  
uh i don't know about dallas  
i think dallas is pretty scattered  
no  
i'm i'm in dallas  
but i'm originally from san antonio  
and they've got large medical uh center down there  
they've got the u t health science center out there also  
so if ever wanted you know pursue anything more than your nursing degree that that'd be the place to do it  
oh great  
great  
well like i said good luck to you  
all right  
well um take care  
and maybe we'll meet up again some time  
okay  
bye bye  
uh well uh the cowboys are my favorite team  
that's pretty easy to say nowadays  
lot easier than it was a couple years ago  
but they had a big win today  
uh did you get to watch it  
oh  
are you a cowboy fan  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
they made it to the playoffs finally  
like just you know two years ago they were one and fifteen  
they won like just one game  
and so pretty fast [turnaround]  
but this year they made it to playoffs  
and today was the first game  
and they beat the chicago bears  
so everybody's really going crazy you know down here  
they're going crazy  
so so they turned it around  
but you know they have a lot of young exciting players now uh  
i mean everybody was real upset you know when they fired tom landry  
but you know now it's like you know they're doing good so everybody's forgotten about that  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
exactly   you know  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh you know they have a young team  
it's you know a lot different than the teams they used to have where it's the same old you know players every year and you know same coach same everything  
so now it's you know like a taste of something different  
they're all not you know mister nice guys like they used to be  
now it's like you know tough and dirty team  
so everybody is really excited  
and  
well it's supposed to be the redskins but you know we beat them already  
we beat them this year in in washington  
so you know so everybody has the feeling like we can go all the way to the super bowl  
but you know it's just that we have to play every game away you know  
it's going to be tough  
but but  
the competition is are teams that they've already beat this year  
so i mean atlanta they're in it too  
and we beat them  
and uh see detroit we play them next week  
but you know we should beat them  
everybody feels like we should be able to beat them  
so it's so everything's uh looking real good  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
well the cowboys are on a roll  
they've won like i think six or seven in a row now  
so they're supposed to be the hottest team in the in the league going into the playoffs  
so  
right  
yeah  
troy aikman  
he got hurt at o u  
so he transferred   to u c l a  
right  
uh_huh  
they're playing tonight in fact  
i'm watching them on t v right now  
but they're doing some [stomping] on virginia  
really  
well they're doing good tonight  
yeah  
they're winning   they're winning forty one to seven  
yeah  
right  
but yeah  
and uh that's right  
aikman did go to o u  
i forgot about that  
yeah  
uh u c l a  
yeah  
but the cowboys did good today  
i mean i was proud  
i thought i thought they would get beat today because i mean they're so young you know  
playoffs  
no  
i didn't  
i uh have been at my computer all day  
so  
well i used to be a real big cowboy fan  
and and uh i'm not a jimmy johnson fan  
being an okie   i just really don't care much uh  
it's it's kind of hard not to be a cowboy fan though  
they've always been you know my favorite  
but uh and   and i guess i still have a soft spot  
i just hate that that's the coach   that's leading them  
so now have they  
they're in the playoffs right  
i'll bet they are  
uh football fans are probably the most [fickle] people in the world  
hit a bad season  
and it's you know the coach's fault  
let's let's dump him  
first good season the coach can do no wrong  
but they   dallas has always been good ahead you know heading good players and   both running running backs and and defense  
who is the competition going to be  
course i think you know you can't really go by what happened earlier in the season   because teams [jell] together or they've had   injuries that heal  
and you know   it can be a or injuries that uh have newly happened   and it could be almost a totally new team out there than the one we played  
but but since you have an o u drop out as a quarterback  
well   well he he really didn't feel like he'd be able to do a lot of passing at o u  
o u has always been known for their running game  
more than  
right  
oh i tell you  
they've they've not had much of a team this year bless their little hearts  
are they  
i haven't   been watching  
well good   for us  
oh  
yeah  
they  
then he went out to s to southern cal  
is that where he went  
yeah  
so  
what's   your uh  
are you into the cowboys  
oh yeah  
well that   that's all right  
yeah  
well i don't know  
i kind of go back and forth uh depending on whose really hot and whose not  
i guess i'm kind of a fair weather fan in a lot of respects  
but uh i guess if i have uh my druthers i'd probably go for the seattle seahawks  
i kind of like them  
yeah  
they're kind of  

yeah  
to be honest with you i i probably watch uh college a little bit more than i do pro  
yeah  
i kind of like college actually  
quite a bit  
is it  
yeah  
yeah  
that could be  
yeah  
yeah  
you probably wouldn't like my favorite team in college then  
no  
i root for nebraska quite a bit  

yeah  
well i can see i can see definitely how you get into that  
i to be honest with you i find that too much running gets pretty boring as well  
and  
right  
sure  
well i think they're starting to realize that  
a lot of the like the big eight teams that used to run so much i think they're starting to realize that they just can't compete anymore  
right  
yeah  
so uh what's  
this world league is coming in  
uh that's getting ready to start up right  
have you followed that very much  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
it can take over a small market share  
but nothing really  
right  
yeah  
i think i agree with you  
it's it's kind of interesting to see uh to see their claim of you know like world football  
but when in reality it's really americans playing somewhere else you know  
yeah  
actually uh i kind of like soccer  
i've   never really played it  
but uh i like the idea  
it's it's an interesting game to watch  
that and rugby  
i've like to watch   rugby every now and then  
yeah  
whatever you want to call it there  
yeah  
yeah  
there's an element there's definitely an element of stupidity in there somewhere  
yeah  
right  
exactly  
yeah  

yeah  
you've played it then  
no i doubt it you know  
not at   least not in this country anyway  
yeah  
it is  
they really are  
yeah  
uh no  
i don't  
to tell you the truth i'm  
okay  
to tell you the truth i'm not even really from here  
yeah  
i'm i'm up here for a year on an internship  
but i i actually live in florida  
yeah  
well you know i   i mean who who   who the heck is going to root for tampa bay right  
i mean i guess i could go for miami  
but   i don't know  
i'm from  
i root for nebraska  
so i'm i don't have a real love for miami anyway  
but i don't know  
i i guess i get into pretty much  
uh  
oh god no  
uh no  
i'm not  
i haven't been  
i grew up in dallas but i'm still not a [cowboys'] man  
i like philadelphia eagles  
yeah  
that's my favorite team  
so  
uh now that [randall's] coming back next season i hope they'll be do a little bit better  
they didn't do too bad last season  
but i hope they can do better  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
that's another one of my favorites  
they're not they're not my favorite totally  
but i do like them  
i like  
yeah  
seahawks are good  
they  
now that steve [largent] is gone i kind of lose a little bit for them  
but   you know he  
really  
huh  
yeah  
that's kind of that's kind of strange  
it's too much running for me in in college football  
i like   i like the pros  
they do you know  
it's more high tech  
more you know players are apt to act a little bit different when they when their jobs and their when it's a job and not just you know  
when you're getting paid millions to do it you i think they take it to another level  
but i can see it's more you know [grunted] out run the ball type  
college football is a little bit different  
but  
whose that  
notre dame  
nebraska  
yeah  
there's a running team  
yeah  
that that that's boring for me  
i i'll take the passing teams any day  
but  
yeah  
it's just it's four yards three yards   eight yards tackle  
that's you know it gets kind of monotonous  
after awhile i i prefer forty a nice forty yard flea [flicker] every now and then just just to   juice it up a little bit  
and but  
yeah  
it's high dollar  
you know it's all it's all money now  
even college is all   can we get on t v  
so  
that's that's  
right  
yeah  
uh not really  
i i don't think anything will ever take over the n f l  
i think   it's basically you know it's it's an institution  
it's like if we tried to start something to take over major league baseball  
it's just i just you know  
i mean it it it can be it can take over part of it  
but it's never going to be the next  
yeah  
it's going to take a little bit  
some people are going to watch it  
but it's not going to be wide spread super bowl and every sunday afternoon or anything you know  
it's just it's never going to reach that that standard  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
it's kind of it's kind of strange  
uh i guess we're the only ones   who take it that far  
everybody else still nuts over soccer  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
or australian rules football  
that's  
yeah  
that's some brutal stuff there  
that's that's worse than football as far as violence i think  
golly  
those guys kill each other out there  
rugby is something else  
yeah  
that's just wild  
that's why it's a a big college thing  
rugby is definitely big in college  
because it's something a bunch of [fraternity] guys can get together and get a good beer [buzz] going and do  
so yeah  
i could see the feel for that  
but it's it's pretty it's fun to play  
i'll give it that  
it is fun to play if you don't value your   very much  
but you know i don't think rugby will ever be professional  
but   it it's it's  
no  
you can't stay healthy and do that  
that's a rough game  
but uh i don't know  
i don't know how my eagles are going to do this year  
so you  
the the seahawks are an up and down kind of team  
yeah  
my my it's kind of odd my roommate that i live with here he's uh he's lived in [pennock] minnesota  
do you know where that is  
it it's a small town  
it's about two hours  
it's in like central minnesota  
it's a couple of hours uh west of minneapolis  
but uh  
you just live there now  
uh_huh  
well he's  
live in florida  
like the seahawks  
hey i i   i've only been to philadelphia twice  
and i you know i i still like  
really  
really  
yeah  
but  

okay  
i'm not as ashamed to claim them this year as i have been so  
oh yeah  
right well  
really  
why  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it will be fun for you to watch up there anyway   to see what happens now you  
uh_huh  
right  
well it depends on where you're from in texas  
i live right by dallas   so we have one football team   as far as we're concerned  
that's how it is  
it's divided  
yeah  
it really is  
so we've got our cowboys here  
and   and uh i don't think anybody roots differently  
but   i have a boyfriend that lives in [fresno]  
and he is for the l the uh raiders   l a raiders  
so  
well i just started to this year because of these silly raiders that didn't do very well  
but i've been trying more this year  
i think i know a little more than i use to  
i never knew very much at all  
so i'm trying  
yeah  
so i shouldn't even try to do it huh  
yes  
right  
yeah  
really  
i don't even think we have that in texas  
we might  
do we  
i mean no  
you probably know  
i don't know  
nobody talks about it  
so i don't think we do  
no  
uh_huh  
and we have a soccer team that comes and goes  
we don't even have that very much  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well i like to do  
i don't like to watch  
i don't like to watch anything  
so it kind of annoys me when people just lay in front of a t v and watch all this stuff  
i think it's an   excuse to do nothing  
and i i can see what you're saying about the male bonding  
and the   guys get together  
and that's kind of cool  
that's fun you know  
but it can get really overdone  
yeah  
i have  
yeah  
yeah  
i have  
uh no  
actually no  
i've done that for college football  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
and that's the thing you know  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well in high school i went to every football game  
and   well i [twirled] you know  
and i you know i didn't  
i still don't know that much about football obviously  
but i still had a good time you know  
oh so  
well it  
let's put it this way  
we've got the new england patriots up here  
so  
they've had some serious problems in the past couple of years  
yeah  
um well uh partly due to ownership  
you know uh [victor] [kiam] owned the uh the patriots   uh for a period of a number of years  
and he always had this uh this wonderful quality of being able to put his foot in his mouth every time he went to say something  
and uh they've had some financial problems with the team and so forth  
and it recently was sold to uh some other people  
so hopefully this ownership can set up new direction and uh keep uh the patriots in the new england area anyways  
oh yeah  
i've been to a couple i've been to a few games before  
now you you're you're from texas  
so you've got two football teams down there  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
there's that type of [segregation] huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
do you  
uh_huh  
do you follow professional sports at all  
yeah  
well it's a good past time you know  
particularly football  
they say uh football attracts more men because of the you know the you see the the physical aggression on the field  
and supposedly psychologists say that uh that uh men take out their frustrations by watching football  
and you know they get together with a bunch of guys  
and they uh uh and they have a good time and everything  
and that's suppose to be some of the uh the male bonding and the and the uh the male instincts i guess or something about the uh  
well no  
it it's good as in terms of in terms of uh of a contest  
i think that uh  
i personally like hockey better because it has contact it's a contact sport  
it has the speed  
and the hand eye coordination  
and it takes a certain skill to play hockey  
not everybody can play hockey  
so we  
and  
that's  
we're a big hockey area up here  
i bet up here in new england as well   as you know in in the minnesota area  
but  
what hockey  
no  
there's no hockey  
there's no  
there's no professional hockey teams in in texas  
yeah  
i think though that professional football   in particular is becoming so [diluted] now  
like they have this world football league  
you see we have the n f l that that dallas   and houston are in and new england patriots and l a raiders and those teams  
there are those teams that play in professional national football league  
but uh now they have what's called the world football league  
and they have all these teams from  
there's a team in london  
and there's a team   there there's uh teams other european teams  
and there's teams in the united states  
and they're playing now during the summer months  
and it's really you know [overkill]  
and there's only so much football you can watch  
yeah  
that's good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
now have you ever been to a professional football game  
have you  
did you do the whole big the whole thing the [tailgate] party and the whole  
well see now see that's what you got to do see  
now we talked our  
yeah  
yeah  
you the  
well the same thing  
we we talked our wives  
there's about six or eight guys that we use to go out for these games  
and uh we talked our wives into going with us one time  
and they had a real good time  
and it was basically for the social atmosphere  
you go you know three or four hours before the game  
you go set up  
we set a table up  
we do some cooking some [barbecueing] have a few drinks   and then go in and see the game and see the patriots lose and then go home and eat drink some more  
but but that whole  
it it's not so much sure the contest itself and the game itself  
but it's the whole atmosphere of playing uh of going to a game    
that you miss sitting home in your parlor you know uh with with a six pack of beer and some uh potato chips you know  
you you miss that  
and and any professional sport i think   you miss that  
the atmosphere of being there you know  
yep  
well  
hello
hello
yeah
berkeley california
this is [carla] in sherman texas
good
how are you doing
yeah
that's what they gave us
yeah
okay
okay
um
yeah
yeah
i love football football professional
right
well i'm not really originally from texas
but uh professional football is my favorite thing to watch really
yeah
exactly
i do like
uh what's his name
what's who's the quarterback out there
oh yeah
yeah
i do like him
uh_huh
oh really
so they're not going to be as good this year
huh
oh yeah
yeah
not at all
not at all
i'm i'm really a a a bandwagon fan
i think i like
whoever is good that year
yeah
i've you know
yeah
so i
so i liked the forty niners last year
but uh i like watching the colts play because i'm from originally from indiana
and
yeah
the colts
yeah
yeah
yeah
i know a lot of people do
but uh we like jeff george so it's fun to watch him play
being a [rookie] and all last year
yeah
uh_huh
well they did the wrong thing by uh releasing landry a few years ago
i know
i i liked tom landry you know i have no respect for the for the new coaching staff since they [ousted] him
oh not
i know
not at all
yeah
so uh
well well i have to admit i don't keep up with texas i keep up with uh i'm from purdue
and so i keep up with what's going on up there
they're going to have a new coach this year from ohio state
and uh they it looks looks to be promising for purdue within the next few years
so we're looking forward to seeing their program turn around
yeah
oh yeah
you don't hear about them much in fact you don't even hear about their basketball team much any more
that's how it goes i guess
yeah
uh_huh
right
what are they going to do about bo this year
yeah
right
oh yeah
some people think they're predicting that he'll make a big comeback yeah
i would be too
yeah
uh_huh
right
t i
uh somehow got us on it
yeah
yeah
i bet they love to talk about uh pro football don't they
or any football
uh_huh
you played football
for north carolina
where'd you go to college
oh did you
well great
what year was that then long ago huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh yeah
definitely
i understand that
yeah
you too
and i hope the forty niners do well this year
thanks
okay
my name is diane
hi
well what's your favorite team i like the chicago bears
the cowboys
well they haven't done much for
they never did much
even when landry and staubach were playing i'm being real sarcastic did you like them back then
[touche] yes
well when i moved here in the uh mid seventies um are you in dallas
yes
so am i uh i just use to laugh because back then i was a steelers fan
i'm from originally from pittsburg
and that was not the thing to be in dallas
when they their [preseason] games at the stadium you know where the cowboys versus what do you think they're going to do this year
uh_huh
in he sure did that
i agree with you on yeah
what do you think of uh the guy who's coaching them now from miami i can't remember his name off the top of my head
i can picture his gray hair
but
yeah
yeah
that's right
uh_huh
are you a football fan uh by nature
or is this something you grew into
that's true
i agree with you there
though at least it has a little more action than baseball
well i don't know why i like the bears
but i do
i just think they have some good players
but
uh_huh
eight nine yeah mister ditka well you can't say too much bad about him
i mean he did learn his [hone] his trade under landry
that's what i meant
yeah
the university of pittsburgh
well i was probably a little bit too young for that
but um i know we just laugh
now in terms of not specific teams
but um we have company and one of the men got bored earlier this afternoon
and he turned on the television and one of the ladies said what's you know what's the football game
and i wasn't even aware
i mean i knew it
but i just i guess i kind of shut it out like most females
yeah
something
oh funny
san antonio and san antonio has a team or something
oh you're kidding
oh goodness
are you that avid a fan that you would watch it uh year round
uh_huh
yeah
it it it seemed like it's up to about ten to twelve years ago
i mean all the sports including football
it used to seem uh before the higher ticket prices in terms of just not for fans
but i mean what what the salaries some of the players were getting
yeah
i mean i um i mean like i was just reading something in today's paper about herschel walker
and i had to [chuckle] you know i mean you wonder what he really is
i mean i really don't care
but what happens to a player when they're sitting in their cars and they fall asleep because um they're so tired
and the carbon they're overcome by carbon [monoxide] fumes
you know um but i think it's still healthy
i mean i have a nephew that plays football
and if that's what he wanted to do
i certainly wouldn't tell his parents to encourage it
but i think it's still an honorable sport
i have no idea
who is he who um the guy the young guy from uh ohio state
i think he's already over the hill isn't he
i can't even remember his my mind went blank today
it must be the heat
um i don't know
i just uh i actually you know i was probably was like you were when the when [payton] was big you know this is probably about five years after when everything was the america team
but um i actually once [payton] left
i kind of just lost you know
yeah
i kind of just lost um and i don't think [ditka's] going to stay around much longer
i don't know if he renewed a two year or not
i think he's either in the middle of that
or just did that
yeah
it's kind of you know i mean uh it's kind of like when the cowboys the bears and the steelers went you know like i said about ten twelve years ago
it seemed like football was really interesting then
and it didn't matter who was playing it just it was worth watching
yeah
and it was competitive
and it seemed a little cleaner
i don't know um
yeah
and there's some technical stuff
you know this [minicam] stuff these instant replay things that uh i'm not sure that i would agree with some of it
but i still think it's a good sport
uh_huh
some of those calls
well i have to agree with you
because i can remember um when they played the [dolphins] and i saw ditka take the [touchdown] and i remember there were one or two calls in that game
i think it was in was that seventy three or seventy two i can't
i can't even go back that far anymore
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
i know
yeah usually when that happens
and i mean it always seems to go the way of the [ref's] call though
it never seems to go the way of you know either the coach or somebody protesting um
but that's really i guess what i know about football
pardon me
right now i'm not i'm a homemaker
yeah
yeah
it sure is
domestic engineering
domestic engineering
there you go
yeah
it's um i don't know
i just really had to laugh today
i mean the what the subject was when i placed this call when the subject was football because uh we had just had that on that that was uh you know year round
and i said oh
they've got to be kidding
i just don't think financially they'll make a go of it
and then my husband said to me
well it was somebody from the vikings uh mike lynn or somebody who
um was one of the [promoters] of that
and i said uh you know wouldn't they be [feating] their purpose to go away from the n f l
but nobody seemed to uh you know nobody just thought that it the motive was just another way to make a profit
yeah
actually you know i mean that's just um that's the era i'm talking about
i mean i remember when uh [gale] [sayers] played
i i mean i can that's kind of when it seems like it was
right
any [probability] could happen
i mean now it's just it's
and usually it's one team
that's great over the entire season
and then it's kind of flat watching some of it
i mean it's um
right
exactly
i mean i can remember when drafts and [heisman] i mean i could i mean i just i mean i used to think [dorsett] was good
now i look at him and i think well why did i ever think that in his younger yeah
and walker now
i mean i don't know if he's dried up or not the way they're talking that uh
did he
and who's going to quarterback the cowboys this year
i don't even is it still the blond headed guy
aikman it
what do you think of him
uh_huh
so you think it's the defensive element that's really lacking in the cowboys
uh_huh
in terms of running yeah
protecting him yeah
didn't he just go through through some rough elbow surgery or something about five months ago
ooh
uh_huh
sure
probably my husband should be to
i just you know you just go through
and you check those subjects
and you go
well
there's not too much
well listen i won't keep you on a nice sunday afternoon
okay
no problem
and you have a good day
okay
okay
obviously the team that i support would be the cowboys
uh i say that i support them
there's been just so much that's happened to that team since they got rid of tom landry that was just like you know [blasphemy] around here
so
yeah
oh yeah
i know i know i don't think i'll ever forget when one of my friends called me and said you're not going to believe this
because i had not heard it you know
and they said they have fired tom landry it's like you know what [slander] how could they do such a thing
so uh ever you know since that i used to be such a an avid fan you know it was ridiculous
but now quite honestly i i think that i support the oilers as much as anybody
you know just because it is a texas team
but i cannot stand jimmy johnson or jerry jones
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i don't know now
yeah
i just i think of bum bright you know
but that's been many many many years ago
yeah
bum [phillips] i'm sorry
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i can't i can't think
yeah
how did you feel about having about jerry [glanville] you know people either hate him or they they like him quite a bit
yeah
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
it's it's you know it aggravates me no end when you're talking about a really close game
and then they do something stupid like start a fight or you know they have they have something like that called
and then that is aggravating
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
it seems like they blow it
oh yeah
you know it was just like you were so spoiled
it was such a novelty if they lost a game
you know
and they could lose one game out of you know the whole season
and people would just be completely up in arms and i really you know as far as future of the cowboys
i really hate to say it
but i think they're going to end up being a contender within the next couple of years i really feel like that will
yeah
yeah
yeah
and
yeah
right
i think
and it's a sad thing to say
but i think it really depends on how much money
you know it always comes back to money everything does
but if uh jerry jones continues to pay these guys what you know they say they're paying them
i don't know
you know i think it depends on you end up you know the best players will come there
if they're going to be paid the most
so uh you know i don't know
it's interesting
we'll just have to see
but it's just very very difficult for me to to support them
it's you know a lot of the guys i really like you know and and uh i loved herschel walker that just blew me away when they traded him you you were talking about somebody that was really involved in the community
and did a lot of things for for kids and stuff like that he was extremely involved in that in that aspect
and i think that's why i i liked him
so well
but uh i don't know
you know when i i watch it
and then i start sort of seeing myself enjoying it
i'm like you're just you're just doing this for the players you know don't think about jerry jones or jimmy johnson either one
but you know it'd just be so aggravating when they did win
and then uh jerry jones would come out of the uh you know the press box
i mean i would just go uh you know wild
it's like it ruined the whole game for me because i had to look at him you know
yeah
he's the owner uh_huh
and he and uh jimmy johnson went to uh college together
they played football together in college
and so they're like this is just like the buddy system you know
and they're
of course they're not from texas
so that [riled] everybody up you know this is like arkansas people
so uh that didn't go over well
so we'll see as i said i really think that they'll eventually they'll eventually be a contender so
yeah
yeah
it's
no
i haven't uh you know i find myself
it's just it seems like it's so hard to uh i don't know why it is
but it's just so hard for me to get involved in it
you know
i love football
but you know i feel like i'm not watching the n f l for some reason it's like oh it really doesn't count you know
and that's terrible
but that's just sort of the way i feel about it
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i mean you you see you can definitely get involved in it more when it's somebody that you've supported all along and it's someone local because you've got all the press you know you read more about them
of course
and and hear more about them on on television and and such
but uh i you know as much as i love it
i would think that i would sit down and watch it
but it just as i said for some reason it's like oh they you know they're just out there playing around they don't uh they don't really they don't really count
uh for dallas
uh my mind went blank
i can picture his face oh my word
yeah
he's uh he's been here for several years
oh pooh oh well it'll come to me as soon as we hang up
i can't i cannot think of his name
he's been injured they've done he's had several surgeries he's a young like a young kid i mean you know he's
i don't know if he's even twenty five yet i don't think
but uh he uh he's had as i said several surgeries on his hand and and uh he's making a fortune
of course he didn't play that much uh last season he was out for maybe you know four or five games
so
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's true
he is
he's considered an old timer i suppose
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
you know it takes a it takes a strong leader in that position
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
just so thrilled it's true
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
really getting into it
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's it's it's addictive i mean i come from a my i have several coaches in my family and you know my mom is just a freak about it you know she she's just as bad as anybody
and my fiancee if it's involved with ball he will watch it you know
so i i was raised with all that stuff
so you know it's just like all of our holidays center on what time is the game start
you know
we have to hurry up and get all this food out of the way because yeah
oh yeah
yeah
you know i would like to
i i say i i didn't want the cowboys to win
but sure i'd like to seem them you know end up end up doing better
it's just you know you you really miss it
when you aren't so intense you know as as we were when they were such a great team you know
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
it's like why am i even watching this you know i it was seems like it was the height of the of the uh cowboys empire so to speak when uh uh earl campbell was playing for the oilers
and i'm a u t freak too
okay
oh yeah
i guess we're sort of
we're stuck with that down we're brad we have to be
but uh been it's been difficult suffering with them through the past few years
but it looks like they could be you know on their way back a little bit
our quarterback's hurt right now he's going to be out for a couple more weeks at the very least and may miss the rest of the season course if they're lucky enough to make the playoffs
he may be ready for them
we're we're fortunate to have a you know a a fairly good back up quarterback
that's come in
but i tell you what the people of dallas
uh they love their cowboys
i'm a i've been here since seventy four and uh they're quite easy to easily to get attached to
and uh we've got our new coach now jimmy johnson which i we we like what he's doing they've forgotten about tom landry
he was a great coach in his day
but they've forgotten about him
oh yeah
so who's your favorite team
right
sure
no
well i'll be darned
i'm sure
uh_huh
right
and how's your team doing
well good
they're having a sad year
i know maybe maybe we're both teams of the future huh
oh it was it was fantastic
that was a hell of a season
oh i know
they had a great coach i think they're they're they're missing their coach but most of all they're just they're in a rebuilding type of thing
their their quarterback's down too
right now
so the big oops
big big [phil's] trying to come back
hold on just a second that's my other line
sorry brad okay
so anyway [phil's] trying to bring them back
right now i guess
who do they play this weekend
oh then it's a big game
yeah
they play at at philadelphia
play in new york
well yeah
good chance there hope so
right
and we just hope we just hope dallas makes it
and of course all that depends on what philadelphia and new york does too
so i don't know
that's true
because both our teams are like eight and five you guys are up what seven and six i guess
yeah
i hope so
their first playoff games travel to detroit i believe that's that will be a tough one on them
right
yeah
it was there
but they lost them playing there
but uh still a tough game
because you got emmett smith versus barry sanders it ought to be a little exciting be a good game anyway
yeah
yeah
he was doing well
and the kid from houston they drafted from houston uh they gave all that money to
they've got a lot of high dollar players i tell you
football
well it is
well actually it isn't
actually the new york giants
but i do like the cowboys
well i'm in in uh plano in texas
yeah
where are you
oh well
uh
well my husband was transferred down here
no
uh_huh
but anyway they want us to talk about football
and uh yes
but you know they're not doing so good this year
yes
yeah
that's true
but i don't know
they have basically the same team they had last year i just i think the coaching stinks
well i don't know
i just think uh they got rid of bill [parcells] well they didn't get rid of him
he quit
and i just don't like the guy that has replaced him he is very conservative in his play calling you know i think he uh he he could have taken more chances this year
well that's possible
but now i hear
uh he's been talking with the uh tampa bay
exactly
exactly
yeah
well
gee
i don't know it's hard to say you know [hostetler] brought them to the super bowl and uh i don't know
well it's a that's possible
you know who's to say i mean uh
i don't know [hostetler] he had his his numbers were there
i mean you know he he had pretty good numbers
but uh
yeah
i don't know
it was very disappointing their offense was very it didn't do anything
i mean their their maybe they they i think the most they [scored] in any game was like twenty four points or something you know they really had a i don't know why because they had the same
well you know they had the same offense as last year
but they didn't score all that many points last year in each game
but they uh they have a terrific
yeah
i i guess
yeah
well how about the cowboys they're doing you know great
well yeah
but now you know they're really on the road back you know
i mean that that game yesterday was terrific
no
no
i i haven't been to a game in a long time
oh really
oh that's great
were you out there yesterday
oh man
i don't think so
i mean i hope not anyway
i mean he's so
good you know
yeah
he's he's real good
uh i don't know
you know i don't know
i think maybe they'll give him another year
you know
but uh i was disappointed he was too conservative and he just didn't take enough chances
and uh i you know i i prefer them to get somebody else i'd like to see them get [parcells] back
yeah
he left on top
you know two super bowls in uh what four years
that's
pretty damn good
yeah
you know he couldn't really top it
so uh
and now i'm sure
he's making more money doing uh you know sports reporting
what the giants
uh you know i really don't
i guess i guess i can uh i really don't know defense and offense i suppose you know i've got the they've got the running backs so they could use a uh i guess they could use some more good [receivers] yes
and [navarro] was
terrific
yeah
they could use a a couple of really good tight ends they really
they don't really have you know really you know
super tight ends
[navarro] he was uh injured and i don't know
then he came back and then they released him
yeah
yeah
no
i think the cowboys have a good chance to really uh possibly take it all the way they're one of the they're one of two teams that actually beat washington redskins uh however washington has been uh what do you call it has been [resting] up
and uh that could really hurt the cowboys especially if they have a lot of injuries coming into uh the next two games
well uh that would be an interesting game
i think that game would be sold out what do you think
yes
i think so
because uh i think warren moon and uh steve beuerlein and troy aikman are some of the hottest quarterbacks for the uh for the nineteen nineties
yeah
the no name defense that's pretty good
well did you see in the paper last sunday about uh the salaries for the different uh uh players
well what do you think about uh montana being paid so much for not playing this year
sure
i think it will be too
and i think steve beuerlein might get a little raise too
he's uh uh troy aikman i wonder even though he's a real good player
i wonder if he's going to be able to uh stand the physical abuse that the n f l offers he might not make it
yep
so what do you think about uh the games that going to be played uh tomorrow buffalo and who they playing the uh kansas city chiefs yeah
i think john elway still has a hot hand the trouble is is sometimes it's cold and uh he's not consistent he has a good day
he has a bad day
uh i like that these other quarterbacks that that they're are more consistent i think beuerlein has been more consistent
right
right
um
i missed the name who was that again
i didn't i didn't watch that game
uh i did watch the notre dame game
yes
i i think that uh the coach there has uh really made a name for himself with arkansas
and now with notre dame
yeah
that was a low scoring game
okay
here we go
so what's your favorite team
naturally huh
oh really
it's uh like seventy five miles from oakland and san francisco
it's in the valley
okay
well i used to be a [raider] fan
when they were there
but now i'm a forty niner fan
you know
and the forty niners just went down down down this year
yeah
yeah right
right
so what do you think's going to happen sunday
i hope it's buffalo
you know
i really
i'm
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
lost by what one point
yeah
uh_huh
well at least dallas was in the playoffs you know
what
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you get to go to very many games
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
i've never been to a forty niner game
i used to go to all the [raider] games when they were in oakland
that would be nice
yeah
but uh i don't think that's ever going to happen
you know uh now i'm just waiting for something to come off out this way out in the valley
sacramento still has a chance i guess of getting a team someday
uh_huh
uh_huh
so you plan on uh watching the game sunday
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that will be nice
yeah
that will be nice
yeah
we're going to have a little few people over to watch the game
you know just serve hors d'oeuvres and stuff like that
so we won't have to miss out on anything
so
i know it's too late huh
yeah
i was wondering for sure what time it started i thought it was three or something
but you say it's four out
here huh
six o'clock your time huh
that's terrible
yeah
yeah
yeah
well
yeah
okay then
it's been nice talking to you brad
you say you're a [steeler] fan
so did i
no kidding
yeah
chuck [moe] as a matter of fact uh did the coin flip in uh
[yesterday's] super bowl
he looks real good
he certainly had a an unfortunate uh end to a brilliant career
well that's what i think i think the the the sad thing about the steelers is that they stuck with the crew a little too long
and i think that's the the biggest problem for [dynasties] is that you just really have to cycle people
um
yeah
no
yeah
how about houston the oilers any more appealing to
yeah
well i you know i was a [steeler] fan
and a forty niner fan
um they've certainly built themselves a you know a great team as a matter of fact if they hadn't lost so many games early in the season
i think they might have been a contender might have given washington a game
but uh they lost uh so many games early that they that their comeback made little difference at the end
well montana made a difference
but as the [analysts] have said over and over again the game is won and lost at the line of [scrimmage] a smart quarterback makes a big difference
and i really think for example yesterday buffalo might very well have been in it until the end had kelley been uh a smarter quarterback
i i frankly am surprised that um [marv] levy would allow him to call all those plays
yeah
and i think that's just too tough in a on a
uh uh you know a guy you got to be real real savvy to do that
and i don't see kelley as being that savvy i don't i think that's one of the weaknesses in the buffalo offense myself
because they certainly have a heck of a defense
although it was picked apart a little bit
i mean washington just looked phenomenal
and uh
yeah
yeah
it's it's it's nine years ago
yeah
it's been a while
well it is it is a little disappointing
and there's some
it's it's very interesting to see you know what's what's behind this is it is it the uh
i mean you would think theoretically that the draft picks would uh
you know random and then free agency also makes a big difference
and i don't understand it
i mean they just
uh they they denver you know went a few times
and they didn't do anything
cincinnati they didn't do anything
now uh buffalo
yeah
well you know i think that's sad in a way because i think that if you look for example there were a couple of calls yesterday that were [appallingly] bad
i mean i just
it's it's it's [shameful] and and i think that that once [pandora's] out of the box you know
so i don't know
i i i think it can complicate things i recognize that
but i sure think it's it's [reversed] some some calls that were bad calls
although yesterday
it didn't reverse one that was a very bad call
well there
yeah
there is that problem
and and but uh i guess that that the real the real interesting thing is in the age of television you're going to get so much analysis of it that a
well i was pretty encouraged by what happened this year
and and i think with all those draft choices that i hear that they have uh they ought to be able to pick up a few more players that would help them
so i'd i'd have to say that i think that the j j boys have done well
oh i i don't think there is any question that aikman has to be the starter
because he's got the physical tools i mean that other beuerlein stepped in and did a wonderful job
but i don't think that you can until troy loses the job on his own merits i think the job has to be his now that he is healthy again
unless he doesn't perform then i guess the other guy is waiting to step in the wings
but but that guy's got his head screwed on right
he's not causing a controversy yeah
he said he'd hit the first reporter that says the word quarterback controversy yeah
and uh but he he doesn't like it
he doesn't want that he just wants to go out and do his job when he gets a chance to play he kind of i think wants to let his actions
speak for themselves pretty much
yeah
i am a dallas native so i have kind of grown up watching
and i even went to s m u
so i didn't even go away for college
so i i in uh north dallas in lake highlands area
richardson school district
yeah
i was in the dallas cowboy quarterback club
when they started it back in nineteen sixty
i was uh just a little kid then
and i use to go to the games and sit in the end zone for a buck of something
for this little club thing they had
i played in uh up through about seventh grade
and i was not big enough to keep getting killed out there uh
now you've got to be a joe man montana fan a little now huh
yeah
well he's uh had a tough year
but i think he will probably come back
yeah
i
you know if his doctor's give him the green light i i think he will more than likely play again
but
yeah
to a certain extent
you know they sure have got uh they get the best back up in the league
but steve young
but i don't think that you can throw all of san [francisco's] lack of getting through this year to the quarterback
i think it's been i think it's been a variety of things they have had several key injuries in certain spots and a couple close ball games could have gone one way or another
and and uh they are still one of the premier uh four or five teams
in the league
and they're always one to beat
so i don't think there is going to be any question
they are going to be up there again
another thing is some of their guys are getting a little older
cause they have
been up there for a while
not since the season is over
what i have been watching lately is the uh potential draft coming up as the players declaring which every time another good player throws his name in that means the draft is going to be that much stronger and i have been watching the uh [commitments] of the high school players to the colleges
lately
cause that is going on national signing day is coming up next week
when they can sign their letter of intent as to what college they want to go to
so i have been watching to see if s m u was going to get a few good players cause
they have been kind of struggling along
since their death penalty thing
yeah
i have season tickets
so i go to all of the games
well i was in the band there
i uh was part of the spirit of the campus for a long time
and uh we have a section of band [alumni] that all sits together called the [diamond] m club
so we get the same season tickets every year
and so we're uh we're all there and it's its' just kind of fun
but it
i've got a son seventeen years old
and he's going to be going off to rice in the fall
and he wants to play in the the [mob] the marching l band
down there
so i imagine
i will be making a few trips to houston
or following them a couple of places to see him play
just one
how about you
have you got any
oh wow
yeah
but what part of town
do you live in
well i uh i'd have to say my favorite team would be cincinnati [bengals] uh_huh
oh that was sad wasn't it
yeah
yeah
yeah
that was just a couple of years ago
yeah
well uh it's kind of hard to uh to know what to do with some of these teams
and they're either extremely strong or very very weak and uh nothing much in between
oh you like the raiders
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
uh_huh
well that that and that's the important thing i mean whether they win or lose why the fun
is is in the supporting them
and staying with it and hoping that uh you know the next time is a better time around
well uh
oh i love football
oh watch it uh every game that's on i watch
yeah
and thursday nights
no
there uh well let's see i never use thought about football too much yet
yeah
right
uh uh
yeah
that's the world league
yeah
what time is that supposed to be
oh
are they
oh
um well uh i haven't for some reason have never really gotten enthused about football in the summer from the the world league
yeah
yeah
and uh it just seems like it should only be done in cold weather
rather than just be played at anytime during the year
uh_huh
huh
ooh
uh_huh
oh is that right
yeah
is that right
huh
i would think uh that if you were real cold and you hit uh hit the ground that it would seem to hurt more
well that helps doesn't it
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
right
what kind of weather you having right now
oh my
well our weather's suddenly turned cold again uh our weather is so unstable never know
yes
and uh this morning why it was raining
and it was quite cold and then it seemed to warm up somewhat
and then before uh before i got out of church it
cooled off again so much
so that i uh stopped at home to change coats because i had to go down to the hospital and uh the coat i had on was just too light in weight
yes
very strong winds well been awfully nice talking with you
yeah
right
right
most people seem to be there out there
right
okay
well good talking to you
uh_huh
okay
well how about those redskins huh
yeah
do you think
uh yeah
they i don't think they've really traded anybody that i know of yet uh
i've i've got three kids who collect football cards
so they uh
they compete pretty [vigorously] for all the redskins cards
and uh actually we went to after they won the uh the uh super bowl
we actually went down to the mall in uh washington and saw uh you know all the players down there
when they had a big rally down there
so it was surprising how big those guys were
i mean they they look big on the field
but they're even bigger in person though
especially that guy joe [jacobi] is just a guy's a monster i mean not [inhuman] but uh
oh yeah
they're all they're all huge guys i mean a small guy would be about six three
and
yeah [ripon] you know for a quarterback [ripon] was six i think he was six three or four and two thirty
which is really big
uh_huh
yeah
well uh what what team are you predicting uh will come out of the a f c next year
you know
you think denver will be as tough as they were this year
yeah
yeah
well i was real surprised uh that they did as well as they did last year
i didn't realize that they were as good as they were
and actually i thought they probably should have beaten buffalo
in the uh title game
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
you think [mecklinburg] is going to hang around for another season
or is uh
yeah
didn't they have a guy on there uh wasn't a uh [deaf] player on there
this year
davis or something like that
yeah
i think he isn't he from nebraska
yeah
what kind of college teams do you like
[cornhuskers] right
uh_huh
yeah
i kind of run out of steam uh until right near the the bowl games with all the colleges
then i watch all the bowl games
but does your wife let you watch uh plenty of football
really
oh
that's pretty good
yeah
i usually i'm getting more and more into that habit
but after ten years i still haven't been able to get into the habit of just having that time reserved but last year last year was pretty good
i got she cut me a lot of slack so i could actually watch some football
uh_huh
what do you think of the instant replay rule
uh_huh
what
i can't believe is you know there are certain plays i guess that they don't use a instant replay on
and you'll see you know the most [flagrant] you know foul or something else you know
and uh they just don't you know they don't do the instant replay and then on the other things you know [touchdown] pass or something like that you know they always get out the instant replay and call backs uh_huh
yeah
yeah
which
yeah
well yeah
they really uh they really [mauled] the
yeah
right
uh well i i think uh uh i probably uh uh watching my son's a big fan of uh of washington
and so uh for not not having any other real real preference i guess
yeah
huh
yeah
yeah
it's kind of kind of bad when they get blown out like
yeah
just out of curiosity what uh people up in utah uh who do who do people generally cheer for who who are the close teams out there
the california teams
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
um
yeah
i mean in texas there's there's plenty you know there's a fair amount to choose from
between the cowboys
and and the oilers
and so but
yeah
well
uh_huh
and and being so strong consistently and then the last few years being being just walked all over
by everybody i mean they've they've lost a lot of fans
i
yeah
yeah
sure
yeah
they're they're obviously rebuilding quite pretty well
and and stuff
yeah
i i didn't know how he was going to make the transition into professional ball uh you know it's one thing to be a real successful college coach
i i at least i imagine it is uh you know and then seems like it would be quite different to to be coaching pros
yeah
yeah
course course also at that at that level
i mean you're dealing with people who who who know you know who who are competitive obviously
or they wouldn't be there
and they're motivated obviously or they wouldn't be there
and so you know i don't know
but it seems like it would you know you can't treat them like they're kids and yet in in a lot of senses still a lot of them probably are
yeah
you would you would have be one of those coaches with the soft styles
yeah
my dad was actually a football coach
yeah
in a junior college
yeah
i played played high school
but i didn't didn't go beyond that
yeah
um
well i i didn't grow too big myself
a little bit more so
yeah
because i i'm here in austin
and we have uh u t austin
is here
and and uh you know they they look like they were you know they're kind of like the cowboys for years years had a [dominating] team then they went through this big long slump
and and uh last year it looked like they were back and and there was predictions that they were going to be a you know going to be real challenge in fact
i think they started ranked like you know fifteenth in the polls or something
and then you know then it was a long slide down
it really a fairly disappointing year
yeah
it's it's pretty serious uh you know i i end up being so busy that i i don't watch much of it
and i don't follow it much
but it's obvious that the people around me do you know and and i sometimes feel bad that i haven't you know i'm not up on it more
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
right
and and supposedly uh uh his brother his younger brother is graduating and supposedly his younger brother is supposed to be a lot better than he is
yeah
yeah
no
i don't know
yeah
yeah
right
uh well i i think uh uh i probably uh uh watching my son's a big fan of uh of washington
and so uh for not not having any other real real preference i guess
yeah
huh
yeah
yeah
it's kind of kind of bad when they get blown out like
yeah
just out of curiosity what uh people up in utah uh who do who do people generally cheer for who who are the close teams out there
the california teams
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
um
yeah
i mean in texas there's there's plenty you know there's a fair amount to choose from
between the cowboys
and and the oilers
and so but
yeah
well
uh_huh
and and being so strong consistently and then the last few years being being just walked all over
by everybody i mean they've they've lost a lot of fans
i
yeah
yeah
sure
yeah
they're they're obviously rebuilding quite pretty well
and and stuff
yeah
i i didn't know how he was going to make the transition into professional ball uh you know it's one thing to be a real successful college coach
i i at least i imagine it is uh you know and then seems like it would be quite different to to be coaching pros
yeah
yeah
course course also at that at that level
i mean you're dealing with people who who who know you know who who are competitive obviously
or they wouldn't be there
and they're motivated obviously or they wouldn't be there
and so you know i don't know
but it seems like it would you know you can't treat them like they're kids and yet in in a lot of senses still a lot of them probably are
yeah
you would you would have be one of those coaches with the soft styles
yeah
my dad was actually a football coach
yeah
in a junior college
yeah
i played played high school
but i didn't didn't go beyond that
yeah
um
well i i didn't grow too big myself
a little bit more so
yeah
because i i'm here in austin
and we have uh u t austin
is here
and and uh you know they they look like they were you know they're kind of like the cowboys for years years had a [dominating] team then they went through this big long slump
and and uh last year it looked like they were back and and there was predictions that they were going to be a you know going to be real challenge in fact
i think they started ranked like you know fifteenth in the polls or something
and then you know then it was a long slide down
it really a fairly disappointing year
yeah
it's it's pretty serious uh you know i i end up being so busy that i i don't watch much of it
and i don't follow it much
but it's obvious that the people around me do you know and and i sometimes feel bad that i haven't you know i'm not up on it more
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
right
and and supposedly uh uh his brother his younger brother is graduating and supposedly his younger brother is supposed to be a lot better than he is
yeah
yeah
no
i don't know
yeah
well bo was uh playing football actually you know he plays both [footba]
[ll] and
and baseball
and he was playing
and during a tackle
he ended up either damaging his hip or you know [injuring] his hip
and there's been arthritis and he's been out for a number of of games and it just as of announced today the kansas city royals put him up on waivers made him a free agent
so they're saying now that bo knows arthritis and it could be actually a career ending injury so they had uh they're having actually a special on today
and they were mentioning that
and even though kansas city may have dropped him some other teams may pick him up
but the big thing was that nike uh the athletics shoe company is still going to keep him on as one of there cross trainer sponsors and since that makes him more money anyhow
yeah
he does it it's pretty amazing though how much he can get for endorsements anymore
i wouldn't be surprised whatsoever on the same program they had michael jordan they were saying that he gets about six million dollars for playing with the chicago bulls about
i think two million dollars for [endorsing] mcdonalds and fourteen million dollars for his endorsements with nike and then of course
he's got uh [wheaties] also
and that's that's in a year
that's uh what would you do with all that money
yeah
i could make that go a lot of places it's amazing anymore
there's a also a program on this evening about the a very sports intensive evening
it seems to be on t v about the business of college athletics
uh_huh
yeah
it it talked about all s m u
and their the death penalty and how they're getting around all the regulations and rules and and things of that nature i guess anymore
it's just a big business
uh_huh
i think it probably also is more as you get into the the big schools the ones that the t v are going to cover and things
anyhow when you start at the the lower side or the smaller schools are all doing it just for the for the love of the game because they're not getting the big revenues from anyone
uh_huh
yeah
they actually mentioned a little on the fact that he's started the n c a a program where he's actually not necessary to say he's getting around the rules somewhat
but it's actually sounds like a pretty good idea where he goes out and [recruits] other students who don't meet the minimum academic requirements to get into the college and and then qualify for a student athlete position
and he takes them and signs some contract or something with them
but sends them then then to junior college
so at least that's uh some way that they're you know i i guess the best part about it
you can't just drop a whole scholarships because it does
i would imagine at least in it's intentions help a lot of people who couldn't afford to go to school
but that seemed like it was actually uh you know if there's a good way to get around it
well that sounded like it was a pretty smart way
well at least it's hopefully still helping the the student
your not uh going to graduate somebody who still can't read and write
uh way too much yes
it has
yeah
but that's quite all right
i think they just want to have some kind of normal conversation
has it
really
well this has been uh actually some pretty interesting interesting topics that i've had i've had things from uh tax reform to baseball to fishing
those are the three i've participated in
uh_huh
well heck you
uh_huh
well sounds like you participated quite a bit
uh_huh
do you normally receive the calls
or is it pretty much split is the
well that's good
uh_huh
well that's good
well it's been enjoyable speaking with you
hi  
well i mostly listen to popular music  
i uh listen to it all the time in in my car  
so i i tend to be one of those people who switches stations a lot because i don't like commercials  
but   uh i find myself listening to popular music  
and uh quite honestly i i have some little children  
and i unfortunately found myself listening to a lot of nursery [rhyme] music here lately  
but that's not by my choice  
how about you  
lucky you  
um um uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how do you feel about rap music  
it seems to be so popular these days  
uh_huh  
right  
when it was really just starting  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
you really  
it seemed to be influenced by a lot of different music  
a lot of times you'll hear songs that you know they're not original   but have been put to a rap kind of a rhythm  
and uh sounds it sounds so much different  
and yet i i have a much younger sister who listens to a lot of rap music  
and uh she thinks its pretty funny how often i know all of the words to songs that she's listening to  
and yet   she thought they were brand new   original pieces  
that's right  
no  
yeah  
i guess there was even a a bit of [ruckus] caused by the m c hammer who's really you know  
seems to be the hot one of of today  
he used um wild thing  
do you remember that that song  
he used um  
i can't remember who the artist was on that  
who  
was it  
well maybe it wasn't that one  
because it was a living it was a living person that i'm i'm thinking of that   um that said you know hey that those are my words  
and uh i guess that they because they hadn't originally gotten um permission   from him to use it  
and he he since then has has [amended] that and paid them his [royalties] every time the the song goes on  
but  
maybe so  
i   i can't think  
yeah  
right  
they destroyed it  
oh yeah  
i i remember seeing the video of it on m t v  
and i thought it was [hideous]  
it was  
ugh i didn't like that either  
i remember i saw him in a concert when i was  
i think it was in high school  
uh_huh  
he was very good  
i remember i saw him in a huge stadium in uh philadelphia  
it was in j f k stadium if i can remember  
hundreds of thousands of people is what it seemed like  
um um uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
no  
you can only laugh  
right  
well they  
i guess our age is showing when we we think that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
like paul simon  
like  
yeah  
yeah  
what do you mean by world music  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
right  
no  
so then it becomes a kind of music of of it's own so to speak  
or uh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the  
are they trying to  
we've talked our five minutes though  
i've been listening to that a lot lately  
oh yeah  
hi  
um okay  
what now uh what particularly particularly what kind of music do you like  
yeah  
oh really  
well um i don't have that i don't have that experience to share  
i i do i do listen to a lot of  
you know i do i switch the stations a lot because i don't have a cassette player in my car  
uh uh however i i do i do like a lot of different forms of music  
so i switch quite often  
um i think i like  
i i'm really particular about the type of music that i listen to  
but the uh  
there's such a wide selection  
i think i like a lot i like a little bit of a lot of different types of music  
you know i i i like music that is that i feel  
if it is performed correctly or if it's done right or if the version is done right i like it  
but if if it's not then i won't  
i i really don't  
rap  
yeah  
well i i don't really have anything against rap music  
i  
the one thing i do object to about rap music is is when it becomes [militant]   or if it's uh violence oriented  
i i have strong objections to that  
um actually i listen to  
one time i remember this was back when even uh  
i would say about ten or fifteen years ago i  
yeah  
right  
when it was just starting   i heard what was called talking blues   which actually is rap  
and uh it was about  
the the piece of music the piece of music was about i think about forty or fifty years old  
and it was incredible i mean the [parallel] you know between it and rap  
and um you you listen a lot  
if you if you hear a lot of old gospel uh uh especially well the black gospel  
you know you will you know you can really pick it up i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they they do they do copy versions they do cover versions of of you know like standards i guess you could call it  
i think it's kind of absurd you know the fact that you know they don't really they don't really give you know the original artist or the original composer   the credit that is really due to them  
yeah  
yeah  
jimi hendrix was the original  
jimi hendrix was the original  
he wrote  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know  
it may have it may have been somebody else because i think i think that even jimi hendrix did it  
i think that was a  
you know come to think of it i think that was a cover version of like a john lee [hooker] song or something  
i mean it was just like  
it was really old  
i mean i i  
there are a lot there are so many different songs  
i mean like the whole thing about cover versions a lot of times i mean i've heard some songs that that i just thought were horrendous cover versions of  
i'm like you know i i don't want to listen to this   because you know you think of the original is like  
you know oh that was really great  
that was a you know a really good piece of work  
and then when you hear the cover it's like you know god what are they doing  
i i think a good one was um  
there was a peter [frampton] song  
and then the cover version i think i mean i thought was absolutely it was pitiful  
yeah  
i did too  
yeah  
but you know whatever became of peter [frampton]  
i mean there was nothing  
he was a phenomenon  
i there was no reason for him to really come into you know great stardom or anything  
yeah  
yeah  
i think i think it  
yeah  
i think that probably what did it for him was the fact that he was a good stage performer  
oh man  
yeah  
i've i graduated back in seventy nine  
so  
but but i've really  
i i loved  
i mean i was i was really into the album oriented music even then  
so i was really familiar with a lot with a lot of of the a o r type music  
um the album oriented like the uh james taylor   and the uh the beatles  
and you know i mean a lot of people they go they're better than the beatles  
and i'm like you know   you don't know what you're talking about  
i mean the comparison made between new kids on the block with the beatles it was just  
yeah  
you just sort of  
you know well i guess i can just humor them you know at this point  
yeah  
but well you know i i i've liked a lot of the new music  
i think um   um when  
i saw some promise you know with with a lot of the new wave when it when it came out uh   back in the mid and early eighties  
and then um i don't know  
music is kind of in a weird it's in a very weird position right now  
i think that  
i mean i like you know things like to hear you know what they call world music which is you know using all these natural forms of music  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
paul simon  
well you know really that's not world music  
but what what paul [simon's] doing i think is is is great because he's you know i think i think that using i guess what they call it is eclectic you know   drawing from a lot of different sources and making you know a synthesis of a new type of music um  
well world music is um  
a lot of the a lot of where they where they make music that they adapt to a to another kind of to another type of [listener]  
uh for example let's say you're taking like an original [brazilian] form of music and with a certain style  
and then you try to make it a little bit more [listenable] for let's say another audience let's say a north american  
and then when they hear it it it's a really it's another form of music and   you know sort of um trying to draw out the best sources  
the the best of every type of music  
because i mean there are some i mean  
i i  
there are some you know types of heavy metal that i really like  
but but i wouldn't i wouldn't say that i i completely like heavy metal  
i i think  
you know and it's the same way with  
you know world music takes the forms that have really been um  
i guess i  
you know the best example or you know the cream of the crop i guess you could say  
and then and then taking those those qualities and then applying in the styles that are really um that are extremely enjoyable and then taking  
yeah  
yeah  
it becomes a kind of music of it's own  
i mean when you listen to it it's um uh  
i think that they don't use  
some of it  
it's  
they use electronic and [acoustic] [interchangeably]  
so you know well a lot of the stuff you hear coming from south africa now and from west africa that's considered world music because it's not particularly using certain types of folk styles  
but they're they're trying to make it somewhat more modern  
i i i  
a good another good example was i heard miles davis  
and miles davis worked with [robbie] [shoncar]   if you can believe it i mean  
you know he's a jazz performer  
and then he's playing with [robbie] [shoncar]  
who's a very good he's a very good [arranger]  
uh arrangement to uh  
we're going to have to get off  
i don't know  
but uh  
yeah  
okay  
but i mean when i heard his album i heard it and it was just incredible  
yeah  
i i listened  
and i heard  
you know you hear this guitar  
and then you hear the [muted] trumpet  
i  
me  
and you never would think that they that they can actually play together  
but  
okay  
so we've got to talk about music  
and um do you like classic rock or modern rock or which kind  
no  
not a seventies baby  
is it disco  
or is it like  
but  
oh okay  
so so they can get like the doors and led zepplin  
yeah  
that's cool  
and how about the rolling stones  
oh that's when that's when they took toured  
how about um pink [floyd]  
okay  
so so then we got we got some same things  
because  
no  
it's very hard  
because see well i mean in the whole spectrum i'd rather listen you know  
i listen to heavy metal or classic rock  
we're talking about what they what they call hard rock  
like for example let's see uh bad company  
what  
well they're like for example a c d c  
why  
have you heard of them  
okay  
and stuff like that  
that's that's   that's not really hard rock  
okay  
well cinderella is is hard rock heavy metal  
but see for example they have see what  
but other bands consider it like really hard rock  
it's like [brash] metal which all they do is like they have this guitar and they just bang at the guitar  
and the guitar is set like really low  
and what happens is like oh everybody gets like totally into the music  
and then they start dancing around  
and they just bump into each other  
like like they hit each other with their shoulders  
and then you knock people down  
and what you do is you also try to get up on stage and jump down on top of all these other people  
no  
i don't like that music  
but that's that's what they do  
that's that's what some people call like really heavy metal  
and see the difference i guess between hard rock and heavy metal is that the lyrics also  
like really like heavy metal is considered like the words heavy metal  
and like you always thought about like suicide and killing people and stuff like that  
and just hard rock has  
they they don't talk about that  
they just talk about like life in general  
like [queen's] [reich] if you ever heard of them  
yeah  
okay  
well no  
i said [queen's] [reich]  
but   but oh but you got to like queen also  
so because  
yeah  
especially uh-oh god what is it a night at the opera  
don't they have a  
no  
let's see the one that they have the the whole opera singing in the background  
bo bo [bohemian] [rhapsody]  
yeah  
that that was great  
i heard that the other day on the radio  
and i [pumped] it up  
because i mean i just love that song  
yeah  
but they had  
that that whole record was pretty good  
but then they started going downhill like everybody else  
yeah  
they're they're still around  
they've got a new c d out  
but i i wouldn't buy it  
because see what happens is the old see  
i like i like the old rolling stones  
i don't like the new stuff  
yeah  
yeah  
well for example i used to like old phil collins  
an old genesis  
and and then what happened was that phil collins said hey i can make money a lot of money doing this  
and then he came out with uh see for example his his record like no jacket required  
that was good  
but it was on his way of going downhill  
because he said i can make a lot of money just singing alone  
and then he came out with the invisible touch with uh genesis  
and that really  
like now i hate phil collins  
i can't stand him  
because i look at him  
and i say you know you were singing at this time and with these people  
and you were great  
and now you're singing all this stuff that doesn't matter what you what you sing or what you record  
it's still going to be a number one hit  
and so that's that's what gets me mad  
but did did you go see that new doors movie  
yeah  
i saw it when it opened  
yeah  
well it it's you know it's like i was watching [siskel] and [ebert]   you know like those guys that criticize movies  
and they both loved the movie right  
they said the music's great  
it took me back to the sixties and stuff like that  
and then one of them said well everything is great  
but i'm going to give it [thumbs] down  
and they go  
but why  
because it's like the end is like really depressing  
and so  
but it but it's like the movie is so well made  
and the music that goes with it just picks you up see  
i was never i was born in nineteen hundred sixty nine  
so i mean so for me  
no  
but you learn to  
i mean it's just that like the the sixties music's got a lot to say  
i i never found out what a lot of the seventies music had too  
you know i was like  
hey  
but i bet you were out there with your bell [bottomed] pants  
yeah  
yeah  
did did you go to college  
oh that's cool  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well they always say that the seventies was the lowest point in in [progression] ever in history  
so  
no  
about everything  
so it's like nothing happened during the seventies  
everything happened during the sixties  
the seventies i don't know what they're called you know  
it's like like  
the the eighties are called like the progressive years or the or you know like the technology years   because of all the computers and stuff  
but the seventies got nothing  
i mean nobody cared to name it  
so  
yeah  
i know  
can you imagine the like a big picture of john [travolta] [ta] da what is it saturday night fever  
him just standing there  
yeah  
that's a good example to look for in history  
well from now on we're going to go from the from nineteen sixty nine when they took the first step on the moon to nineteen eighties  
okay  
what happened in the middle  
don't worry  
don't worry  
you're not you're not missing anything you know  
so  
yeah  
really  
and that's   that's why i guess everybody  
yeah  
it's like they don't want to talk about that  
so they just don't name it  
i mean it was it was i guess it was pretty bad times  
oh well let's see  
yeah  
okay  
we've been talking for seven minutes  
so  
okay  
all right  
so um i'm going to leave you alone  
uh what what are you doing  
do you have a family  
okay  
oh i'm sorry  
oh okay  
okay  
all right  
so then uh have fun doing this  
it is not   that bad  
bye bye  
okay  
oh i guess the stuff that was done more in the seventies because that's   well no that's really when i grew up  
so that's really what i like better  
is that kind of music  
i mean  
no  
no  
no  
not that kind of music  
no  
more like uh rock um you know like led zepplin type  
right  
right  
oh sure  
sure  
i went to their concert last year when they were here  
sure  
yeah  
i like them  
okay  
well i just didn't know that much about music  
and i wasn't sure what kind of music  
what what kind of heavy metal are we talking about  
what  
okay  
like give me some examples  
oh well bad company's not bad  
that's not  
yeah  
a c d c  
yes  
well okay  
okay  
i guess i didn't really consider that heavy metal  
i mean i i think when you say heavy metal i'm i'm thinking about like cinderella you know  
well see i don't really care for cinderella  
but i like a c d c's okay  
yeah  
no  
i don't really care for that too much i guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is that the kind of music that you like  
oh okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
right  
oh sure  
of course  
you you're talking queen  
is that what you said  
oh oh oh okay  
right  
well sure  
because queen was real popular when i was growing up  
oh  
um uh   right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that that was a real good one  
well that's true  
they came up with some pretty weird stuff after that  
of the stones  
yeah  
i agree  
that's the  
the older stuff is the best of it  
the the new [stuff's] kind of more like today's rock and roll which i   don't really care for today's rock and roll too much  
right  
yes  
definitely  
i agree  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
no  
not yet  
i guess i've been kind of considering it  
have you seen it yet  
was it really good  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh okay  
so you didn't really grow up with that kind of music then  
right  
well no  
now well seventies music i mean i'm like i said disco i don't like disco  
i've never liked disco  
well that's true  
that's true  
but i was more in the late  
well i  
like mid to late seventies like between seventy five and   and seventy nine was more my era  
well no  
i'm going right now  
but uh no  
i didn't go then  
but see i graduated high school in seventy eight  
so you know in seventy eight you know rock was starting to get really heavy you know  
and real um   i don't know  
disco was pretty much dead by then  
so so that's what i mean  
disco wasn't really my time  
about music  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
that's kind of funny  
you're right  
i never thought of that  
the disco years that's what they're calling them   are gone  
yeah  
right  
that's true  
well except for vietnam  
you know with  
yeah  
well that's very true  
but  
oh good  
i haven't even been keeping track  
uh yeah  
we're kind of i was kind of in the middle of supper  
but it's not a big deal  
i just left it  
no  
it's okay  
because see i didn't see  
somebody tried to call me last night  
but i didn't have my number yet  
i just got it today  
and so you know it's okay  
i i told them i'd be available during this time  
so   anyway  
okay  
thanks  
great  
bye  
i was trying to think about some of my favorite people that i liked in music  
and they're none of them are recent right  
so i like [gordon] [lightfoot]  
do you know who he is  
and the moody blues  
and i like to listen to piano music a whole lot  
and willie nelson  
yeah  
but not all country  
i don't like that   when they start  
i don't know  
i just like willie nelson i guess because he's such a character  
yeah  
my truck is broken down  
yeah  
there there's a guy  
have you ever heard of george [winston]  
he plays piano  
i think he's dead now  
but he plays wonderfully  
i like that  
very badly  
i've got a piano  
my mother got a piano  
and uh [vowed] that someone in the family was going to learn  
so we all had to take lessons  
and i was the one that did the least poorly  
so she gave it to me  
and it's sitting here mostly taking up space  
but sometimes it makes you feel good to sit down and play it  
it is real relaxing  
yeah  
oh so do i  
forgot about that  
i said so do i  
i forgot about jazz  
yes  
we've got about five of those  
i love them  
uh_huh  
i'd never heard them before until i went in a music store  
and you know how you put the [headphones] on and listen to it  
and i just i heard a piece  
and it was just so wonderful  
and then even my eleven year old boy loves to listen to it  
yeah  
i mean you can just sit  
you know those little booklets that come along with it  
and you can just see the things that they're trying to show with music  
my my little boy has gotten so into it that  
he's identified the the people that have written certain songs  
then he buys the pieces that have that person   you know on it  
huh  
i mean i don't even know who did which ones  
but he does  
yeah  
were you in the band  
so was i  
yeah  
yeah  
i like the moody blues  
did you like them  
so what type simply red  
i've never heard of that  
is it just instrumental  
yeah  
yeah  
well my husband is telling me we have to hit the road  
we're going to go to commerce and see a friend  
and   then i'm going to go to sulphur springs  
yeah  
where are you  
okay  
so we're in garland  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
just because there's a friend up there  
not because there's much else  
for colleges  
well they're not  
they're not going to recruit me anymore  
i'm through  
no more for me  
what what do you do  
are you going to go to east texas for that  
that'd probably be pretty interesting  
i was summonsed down to the [courthouse] last week  
they had summonsed eight hundred people  
about four hundred showed up  
and it was for a murder trial  
this guy had supposedly uh strangled this woman and stuffed cotton [toweling] down her throat and up her nose  
anyway this is happened in nineteen eighty three  
and they had us fill out a long questionnaire  
we stayed till about one thirty  
and they're going to call the ones that they're interested in from the questionnaire two to three at a time  
and the trial won't take place until june  
and they say it's going to last about two to three weeks  
and this guy in front of me said i can't believe i was summonsed  
i was an investigator  
and i was [tailing] the woman that was killed  
well then i have a friend at school that has a boyfriend that's a lawyer  
and he said that this woman this [socialite] in plano had hired four guys to kill her husband  
and the one that's accused was the one that actually did it  
and she has since taken off with another lawyer who had been uh getting cocaine from his client and then selling it  
and he had skipped bail  
and they finally [extradited] him  
and he's going to testify for the state against her so he'll have his sentence reduced  
yeah  
the   the investigator  
yeah  
he he got off right away  
and i wrote that down on my questionnaire that he'd told me that  
so i figure that that will make me biased  
and i won't be chosen  
hopefully  
yeah  
the death penalty   no  
i said that i could believe in it in certain instances but i would be i'd find it hard to levy that against somebody  
you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but then when you're when you're picked  
see i was picked for another murder trial before  
oh gosh and it's so hard because you know everybody is wanting to go on and get the sentence done  
and if you're trying to hold out you know there's so much pressure on you  
and you've got to come up with a decision  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so you like a a variety  
sort of easy listening because you like country  
but then  
um  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
i i like some of his songs though  
they're they're not so they're not so sad country all the time  
they're just kind of sweet sometimes  
you know i mean they're not the the typical country where they're just you know my wife left me my dog left me you know  
yeah  
my truck's broken down  
and my house just burned down you know  
but  
no  
uh_huh  
are are you do you play the piano  
is  
or you just like it  
yeah  
yeah  
it must be fun to be able to play it  
and you know if you can play tunes that people can sing along to it'd be it'd be kind of fun i think  
because i mean i play the flute  
and not many things you can play that'll you know people will sit there and sing along to  
and you can't sing along either  
so but uh i like a lot uh  
i like classical music just because of the  
when i i don't play  
i like jazz music  
but  
what's that  
what's that  
yeah  
i like a lot like  
i like uh is it the new age music like with uh uh the  
i don't know if you've heard neurotic collection  
yeah  
i love those too  
they're just so relaxing  
yeah  
yeah  
isn't that nice  
i mean it's nice when you have a piece that that is so so peaceful   that everybody likes you know  
and uh it it it it you know it has pieces that are uplifting  
but it it's mostly relaxing  
and you don't because it doesn't have words you know you don't feel like there's anything you have to remember you know as far as singing a song or something like that or interpreting what they mean  
or but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i see what you're saying  
yeah  
i i can't identify them either  
i just like them  
i could i know which ones come next  
but i don't even know their names  
most of them i don't know their names of the song  
but i i can identify them  
but i like that  
and i like uh course i i like classical music  
and uh  
i was in the band  
yeah  
and i was in like chamber music groups and stuff  
so i'm used to pieces  
and and i played classical flute  
i didn't play play jazz flute or anything like that  
so i i can relate to it i suppose  
but uh and i like i'm like you i like the older stuff too  
because i like chicago  
and i like i like uh uh let me think who uh  
i like uh hebert uh-oh  
you don't know hebert laws  
but hebert laws a flute player  
he's a jazz flute player  
and i like uh uh chuck mangione  
do you know who chuck mangione is  
yeah  
i like chuck mangione  
trying to think of all uh-oh  
what's his name plays the trumpet  
uh   yeah  
yeah  
i like moody blues  
i i like mostly the older groups i think  
oh  
but we do have  
i like simply red  
we got simply red  
i figure all our c [ds] that we have what i really like  
and uh i like breeze  
i like the group  
i think just because they all sort of sound they sound a lot like uh simply red  
if i'm going to listen to that kind of music nowadays that's it's easy listening   uh  
no  
it's it's got people singing  
but it's it is instrumental  
but it's it's got people singing  
but it's got a like a whole bunch of people singing  
you know how many people are in simply red [stuart]  
he can't hear me  
i i don't remember how many people  
but it's it's got men and women  
and it's not it's it's nice  
i mean it's pleasant you know music  
it's not where it's it hurts your ears to hear it  
but it's not as it's not like uh chicago where it's got that much instrument to it  
you know it doesn't have like all the brass and everything  
yeah  
oh you must live in this area  
we're in sherman  
oh okay  
you're going to commerce  
for east texas or something  
oh okay  
oh okay  
well they're having a lot of recruiting this week in all the different areas  
that's why i was just  
yeah  
east texas is recruiting for   you know their fall semester  
and they're they've been doing a lot of that in the area  
no more huh  
well right now i'm just a homemaker  
but i'm going to school uh for legal assistant  
and that's what i know  
so and uh just nothing basically  
no  
no  
it  
no  
i don't go to east texas  
i got a degree from t w u  
but i'm really interested in legal you know in the legal environment  
but i don't want to be a lawyer  
so i said well i think i'll go back to school and see about being a legal assistant  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's how it works  
and this is the man that was in front of you  
oh well they'll   weed him out  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well   not necessarily  
but there's probably something else that might make you  
because you could know about you could know about the crime but not necessarily be taken off the jury you know not be accepted for the jury  
i mean pretty much a lot of people would know about it you know and and know some of the different things about it  
but uh they they might weed you out some other way  
you know if you if you don't believe like if this was a capital crime and and you don't believe in   if you don't believe in death penalty you're not going to be picked at all  
so but  
yeah  
so see   there there they would have a doubt about you   that you know  
because if that's what if that's what the punishment is in that in that instance then you're always going to say you know not  
you're you're not going to want to have him have that uh that punishment  
so  
uh_huh  
well especially with something where you have to you have to find it beyond a reasonable doubt  
you have to find whether they're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt  
and it's like do you really feel that sure about  
i don't know  
i grew up uh in the the sixties  
and at that time uh it was is a changing time for the whole music scene i guess  
and i grew up with the beatles and the rolling stones and the whole pot culture during that time and went through that phase and kind of stayed with it i guess for several years after i graduated from college and and thereafter  
but have since uh  
i grew up in a small town in in southern oklahoma  
i have kind of gone back to uh more of a county uh flavor in music  
um i'm not quite sure why that is  
and it seems like almost a opposite  
but i guess i got away from what i consider to be the pot uh sounding music  
it didn't have what you know i guess what i was looking for at the time country [tell's] more of a a story  
it kind of reminds me of my roots of growing up  
and i've i've become i guess more of a country fan over the years  
yeah  
that was my teenage years  
i was born in fifty  
and and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's kind of the way i am  
uh_huh  
it is it's got uh basically an easy uh rhythm and and tone  
and it's it's pretty fairly well easily to uh uh something to fall into  
i'm kind of the say way  
i i've gone through different periods of life uh in music from pop to classical  
i guess one of the things was that influenced me was that i i've worked in radio stations as a d j for all my college years trying to support my way through there  
and  
was support  
i was influenced by all different kinds of music  
but basically because that's where i worked  
and i've developed a real love for uh classical music in probably junior high and high school because my band instructor was uh heavy into classical type music  
he said he used to sit on saturday mornings and watch cartoons just to hear the music uh that they were using behind them because they used especially disney used a lot of classical music uh behind the cartoons  
and so consequently we wind up wound up playing a lot of classical music there  
and i think that uh got deep seated into me  
one of things i especially like now in music regardless of what kind it is uh are those that call on those classical uh roots i guess uh barry [manilow] comes to mind for some reason there's there's not a whole lot of his stuff that i'm real crazy about  
but he does have some things  
chicago had some things  
uh and i think even electric light orchestra had some some real um influences by classical music  
and i'm still still  
my favorite  
in fact most of my c d are classical music  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm kind of thinking that's maybe  
our generation was uh so in tuned to music of that time that we identify goodness or [badness] with uh things now with the music that's [behinds] them  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that's their signal  
yeah  
when did you first take your uh first piano lesson  
yeah  
yeah  
it is a time consumer  
yeah  
right  
no  
it's making that that connection especially with the mechanical parts of it  
i was never able to to master all that  
in fact my brother and sister both they were oh thirteen sixteen years older than i they went through the uh parent thing where you've got to practice or you're not going out to play thing  
and when it came to my turn the folks said no we're not going through that again  
they sold the piano  
and is the turns out i was the only one who really had an interest in it and never got to  
so i  
that's one of things i felt like i missed in life  
and i i really  
in fact uh one of my favorite things to do now is sit down and listen to chopin that is played on uh piano  
i just you know i can just [drift] off into some other world just listening to that for hours if i ever have the time to do that  
maybe one of these days i'll  
you know i'm kind of like you maybe one of these days i'll get around to it  
i'll do something with the piano  
but probably not  
just never got a chance to come out  
no  
well it's a pleasure talking with you  
best   of luck in your graduate school  
good bye  
when you say that you grew up uh in the sixties i take it that was the uh teenage type years  
or uh  
okay  
we we're very similarly aged  
so we probably have an interesting perspective on the music on the times  
so i'm just a couple years older than you  
um essentially i was one of the [nerdy] types in high school really which meant that i for one reason or another i didn't pay much attention to music  
but as i look back now i realize it was very [formative] for me  
uh my early popular music interests were in simon and [garfunkel] whom i saw perform when i was in college  
and i became attached to that style of uh urban urban country if there is such a thing  
i think with in a way one could talk about simon and [garfunkel] that way because they do tend uh to have a dramatic or story approach to their music uh usually tend to have some good or bad moral to it  
uh over time i became very interested in in baroque classical  
and i think that was just through experiencing [contacting] college and the fact that i found it it very relaxing for me  
my tastes now run i guess to a upbeat uh simon  
it's something that interests me uh combined with with the classical tastes i had mentioned  
and my classical music tends to be confined to the seventeen hundreds early eighteen hundred music  
i'm not a music um  
i'm not particularly schooled in it  
i know what i like to listen to as far as classical music  
and i   i spent a good deal of time listening also to uh people from the late seventies really um neil [diamond] for instance um people of of that particular time  
i listen to some country and western  
but i'm not schooled in it  
and i i've enjoyed the times when i have listened to it  
i played a little bit of piano  
i continue to do that  
i want to do it  
and i never have the discipline to stay with it  
but when i do play uh and begin to [reacquire] skills i inevitably fall in love with country western music which tends to be in some ways easy to play for a for a new piano player  
right  
right  
i find it very interesting that some television shows that i enjoy i particularly like the music  
i don't know which is chicken and egg in that situation  
uh a good example would be uh  
i have connections but but not particularly deep ones to the vietnamese war type situations  
uh and i found that i really like china beach  
and i particularly like tour of duty  
and both of them i had as much [fascination] of the background music i think going on as i did to the theme of the shows  
uh and i i've uh thirty something i'm particularly interested  
but it's the music   almost that i find myself listening to uh  
that could well be  
i i uh spent my junior year uh and sophomore and junior year in in college when i  
a song by the uh uh  
i think the title of it was just downtown  
uh and if you recall how it goes downtown   [ta] da da da  
uh all i have to do is hear that song and i get strongly [evoked] memories of of difficult times in school being behind on work  
uh and my family now knows if they come into my study and uh i happen to have had a tough day at work and maybe i'm trying to get a project done uh at school uh and i'm [humming] or [whistling] in a sort of mad crazy way the tune to downtown they know to just stay away  
they can hear the [unconscious] music signal behind it  
that's right  
uh probably about first grade  
and i have uh returned about every four or five years to thinking that i would like to do something about it  
i usually get to the point where i can play some of my favorite themes  
and then inevitably i am swept away by the the pressure of other types of things  
uh  
it is  
in order to continue to to grow and  
i i always think that i'll be able to do it  
and then i inevitably discover that i have no [innate] music talent relative to composition and that i struggle and really can't quite understand what is that other people take for granted   in composition themes  
and i  
keys and things are something to me that remain a mystery no matter how many times i bang on them  
i have a pretty good [mathematical] concept for what's involved  
uh but in a in a [innate] music sense there just seems to be something missing there which is always frustrating for me since i have pretty high math aptitude  
and i keep thinking gee i thought that all the math and music people are supposed to go hand in hand  
but   but it doesn't for me  
uh_huh  
oh  
so we both have a secret background that says somehow or another we just knew we were piano players and never got a chance uh  
that's the most fascinating thing  
and you sir  
take care  
okay  
good bye  
okay  
what types of music do you like to listen to  
i like classical music also  
i uh  
like you i don't know a whole lot about it  
and i i would like to buy more classical tapes and stuff  
but i'm not sure which composers or which   i really like  
so i kind of hesitate   to buy something  
there are certain kinds i like and certain kinds i don't  
yeah  
yeah  
i understand that  
uh no  
not really  
my husband is  
but not i do uh the world a favor  
and i don't sing [aloud]   to anybody but myself  
yeah  
i i don't care for rock at all  
i guess i'm real old fashioned in my musical tastes  
yes  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree with that too  
yeah  
now rock and roll seems tame compared to like the new age and all that stuff  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
crops up every so often  
i listen to um the christian radio station when i'm in the car  
k l t y  
i like to listen to some of that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
where do you live  
i thought maybe you lived in dallas because that's the complaint i make to my husband about the radio station too  
i said oh they're playing one of their ten   songs  
it seems like every week they pick ten  
and they just play them over and over  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
my husband likes sandy patty songs  
he likes to sing those in church  
he'd buy all the sound [tracts] he could get his hands on   if he had the money to  
well just an amateur singer  
he sings in the choir  
and he likes to do special music and stuff at church  
yeah  
yeah  
i like to hear him sing  
he does a good job  
no  
not yet  
we're expecting a baby in july  
i guess we'll start listening  
yeah  
maybe so  
we'll start listening to children's music  
yeah  
there are  
uh_huh  
oh uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
that sounds really cute  
uh i tell my husband to sing to my stomach because they say that babies can hear quite a lot while they're still in the [womb]  
and i said then when when it's born you can hold it   and sing that again  
and maybe it'll comfort her you know when she's [fussy] and stuff  
what  
huh  
how strange  
uh_huh  
[babbly]  
i'll say that is  
well we'll have to keep up with that then  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
yeah  
have something to rebel against  
yeah  
that's good  
yeah  
variety is good  
well i guess that covers it  
it was real good talking to you  
well thanks  
bye  
well i primarily listen to classical music when i have my druthers partly because i find it more [soothing]  
i don't know a lot about classical music so far as uh any background in music  
but it's the the music i enjoy the most  
how about you  
right  
uh_huh  
i tend to listen to the classical music uh on the radio a lot  
there's uh one particular well there several stations in this area that play uh classical music all the time  
but there's one in particular that is on both a m and f m so i can listen to it without uh worrying  
it's cute though because my children when they get in the car and i have uh the button pushed for that they always switch it to something else  
because naturally that isn't their taste   at this point in time anyway  
are are you involved in music  
well my whole family is somewhat musical um and not from training but just because we sing in our choir  
and my daughter's quite involved and all that sort of thing  
so um i think that one of these days maybe she'll get involved in classical music too because that's usually what happens if you unless you get into rock which isn't her voice style  
so  
no  
i  
well most of it is not all that exciting in that it is terribly repetitious  
it's loud and repetitious without having a great deal of meaning  
now i do like folk song  
um and there have been some nice folk songs over the years that you know kind of still hang around  
but um but uh the more popular music i don't care for usually  
um even when i was a teenager i didn't really like the music of that period so much because i found i liked um a little bit more [melodious] music than what was often the popular   rock and roll kind of sound  
although now i kind of enjoy hearing the rock and roll i guess it makes me think i'm young again  
isn't that the truth  
it's funny  
in fact it's interesting to me that so many of the songs  
now i grew up in the late fifties and early sixties  
and so much of the music that was popular at that time has come back  
and you you don't hear everything all the time  
but you hear much of the same music perhaps a new version of it  
but it's the same stuff   um which is always kind of funny  
um and i remember my older sister  
i have a sister who's sixteen years older  
and at the time that i was a teenager a late teenager i guess i can't remember the year smoke gets in your eyes became popular  
i think it was done by maybe the [platters] or something  
then  
and she laughed  
and she said well you know when i was a teenager that had been  
you know some years before she said that was a version of you know a song then  
and she said it's very similar  
but they've changed a little bit  
she said i like the original version better  
well they did it again about two or three years ago  
and i laughed again  
i said oh no here we are  
right  
right  
it does indeed  
uh_huh  
yes  
now there there's some wonderful christian music when you can find good stations  
uh the problem that i found um in this area is that the there there is [inconsistency] in the quality   here  
if you get someone who's very good at selecting it's okay  
but sometimes they kind of get on a a a binge  
and they play the same sort of thing over and over again without really necessarily quality  
uh i live in the uh washington d c area maryland  
yes  
uh_huh  
and i i you know  
there's so much available   that i don't understand why they do that  
but um now my children have have sometimes  
um they've gone to a few of the concerts and so on of christian musicians that come to our youth group at our church  
and um and when they buy a tape or something sometimes that's fun because it's different and something i've not always heard  
and you know i enjoy that  
oh wow  
yeah  
that's nice  
so is your husband a singer  
right  
yeah  
well that's a good thing to do  
that's nice  
uh well do you have children  
well wonderful  
that'll be a musician  
oh there's some wonderful christian uh children's tapes   you can uh you can get  
and i know when my children were younger um we found a lot of really nice tapes that they that they liked  
um there was an [agape] music group  
and um i some of the songs i still find going over in my head over and over again because they were really um very memorable   even though my children are now  
my youngest is almost sixteen  
but i still find some of the same tapes i uh some of the same songs from those tapes i enjoy  
um there's one that's um a little girl singing practice makes perfect  
and uh she's playing the piano  
and so she she gets the wrong note every now and then  
but then she keeps repeating it practice makes perfect  
and then you know talking about that so far as christian life too  
and it's really cute  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
well do you know something  
because i have always played classical music uh or classical style  
it's not always classical as you know the official uh word might go  
but um even when i was pregnant of course i listened to that  
and when our first child was you know an infant um of course when i was around the house i played that music too  
when he first made sounds that you could detect they were in the scale the music scale  
someone else noticed it  
and i said well i guess that's true  
and it was somewhat [melodious]  
in other words   it wasn't just  
you know it was really funny  
right  
right  
i do think there is probably an influence there because i noticed that even though popular music the the wilder stuff was around when my older children were were you know adolescents early adolescents when they first start listening to music on their own   they first get ask for a radio of their own and so on  
um this same child um really listened to more um [ballady] or um pleasant sort of songs rather than and even classical rather than the real hard rock stuff that so many other kids listen to  
and i i never i didn't want to say too much for fear he would think it was wrong and wouldn't do it anymore  
right  
but uh then i must say they all kind of like a variety of music which is nice  
i like that  
yeah  
well it was nice talking to you  
and good luck with the baby  
bye bye  
okay  
what kind of music do you like  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um i listen i listen to a wide variety of music  
sometimes i'll turn on the classical music  
sometimes i'll listen to jazz  
uh every now and then country and western  
um i'll listen to some of the rock stations  
i also like the uh the the classic rock stations   that play the older more mellow type rock music  
um some of the some of the rock stations now are the i guess the top forty stations or whatever  
they just  
it really gets on my nerves because they play so many commercials  
and   sometimes the [deejays] are just kind of annoying and irritating  
and it gets kind of old  
and they play the same songs over and over  
and i just get kind of tired of all that  
so lots of times   i'll just play cassettes instead of listening to the radio actually  
but uh most of my cassettes  
i guess i don't i don't like hard rock  
um i have some some rock and some jazz and a couple maybe one or two country and western some uh-oh i can't believe i can't think of his name um garth brooks  
i have a couple of his tapes  
and um but it's mainly it's mainly just the the light rock type stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i don't  
i sure don't  
because i have so many albums and cassettes i feel like gosh i'm going to have to go out and buy a c d player and then start collecting c d  
and it just  
i haven't gotten around to doing it yet  
yeah  
yeah  
just like v c [r's] too  
yeah  
i thought of that too that if i wait it'll get a lot less expensive  
and i can do without it for a while  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's  
and a c d is a lot more expensive than a cassette ever was too  
right now i think   they're somewhere between ten and fifteen dollars a piece  
yeah  
yeah  
i bought some at christmas time for friends of mine that have c d players  
i thought my gosh  
now i know another reason why i'm not going to get a c d player for a while  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see i've got a on my stereo i've got a a uh [turntable] and then i've got a dual cassette  
so i can record off other cassettes  
but i never realized you couldn't record onto  
i just never really thought about it  
because i haven't really looked into it very much  
i don't have one  
and  
and i've never really looked at one very closely  
but that that would be inconvenient because i have a cassette player in my car  
now i guess you know one of these days when i get a new car maybe i guess all of them will probably have c d players by then  
but uh i'm not planning on doing that for a while  
i just got mine paid off  
i'm going to stick with the cassettes and and uh you know until until they  
now my sister my younger sister has a she does have a c d player that she got for christmas  
and she's got the the cassette so she can record off cassettes onto c d i mean i'm sorry other way around   off c d onto cassettes  
um  
so i can record some things from her and you know get cassettes and record off other ones or off the radio if i want to  
but   but uh i just haven't gone to c d yet  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
and they get worse and worse too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's amazing how i used to when i was in college i used to have the stereo on all the time or i had on m t v or something  
but ever since i've been out of college i guess over the last several years i listen to the stereo less and less  
now i i will turn on  
i've got a small jam box in my bathroom  
i'll turn that on while i'm in the shower and while i'm getting ready because there's really not much else i can do  
and it's kind of boring standing there putting on makeup so i'll turn the radio on  
and   and then i listen to it when i'm in the car driving to work because again there's you know there's nothing else going on  
i might as well listen to the radio while i'm driving to work  
but other than that i've i really don't i don't listen to the radio or even to my albums or cassettes or anything very often anymore  
i guess i'm just too busy doing other things that it's too much trouble to get up and go decide what i want to listen to   and put it on the on the [turntable]  
i don't know  
i just don't don't bother to do it very much anymore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's good  
what instrument does he play  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've never heard of that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i'm sure it is  
i'm sure it is  
i was exposed to a lot of music when i was younger  
i  
my parents had me take piano lessons for eight years  
and so i was i was a real good piano player  
but then i got interested in a lot of other things  
and i got real involved in many things  
and and now i don't have a piano in my apartment or anything  
i could sit back down and play a few things   but not like i used to be able to  
it's kind of sad that i've let that slip away  
and i took guitar lessons i think for one or two years  
and uh that was about the same time i was taking piano  
and then i got too busy in high school to really keep up with it between homework and  
well i uh  
several years ago a radio broke in my car  
and i never  
i got out of the habit of listening to the radio  
and so i haven't been listing  
i i used to just listen to the rock stations   but um lately i have been going back to classical music  
i don't really know what too many of the most popular songs are unless you know they're in the the news or something  
but um so i tend to listen to some of the older songs that were popular back when i was paying attention  
and then i like some classical music   and some of the pieces that have been around a while  
i haven't paid much attention to most of the current music  
what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
yes  
i don't  
i never liked any of the heavy metal   music  
i never really listened to it because i you know i prefer to have more i guess an established pattern of music to listen to  
but and i  
back a long time ago when the rap music first came out   it was kind of a novelty and i listened to some of it  
but i you know  
now that there's just a million rap groups  
and   and uh they try to tend to try to do outdo each other with [raciness] i think  
and so i you know i'm not attracted to that at all  
but um it made a big difference in my life not to have a radio that was easy access  
and so now that i do have one i just don't automatically turn it on   unless there's something i'm particularly listening to  
but you know if you go two or three years without having that  
what i got the most exposure to  
it really changed my life style and kept me from just having a you know easy access to current music  
and so i did like i say tend to go back to albums and   cassettes and things that i had already had   purchased  
but we don't have a c d yet do you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i kind of decided to wait until it it was around a while  
it was kind of like remember when personal calculators first came out  
and they were really really expensive  
and then now you can get one for two or three dollars  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
and also they get better quality  

and they learn to have more features and things and   without and making them less expensive  
so we're kind of waiting to like uh now you know  
and the price of cassettes has gone down   because c d are so popular  
so  
i haven't even priced them  
i guess they must be  
oh really  
that is awful  
uh_huh  
take our time  
well i can't imagine um  
you can't record on them and so they won't be as functional as like a cassette player where if you heard something you could record it   you know uh if you have i guess if you wanted to record something to play out in your car or something   that you'd heard or that you owned an album of  
so c d won't be nearly as handy  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
enjoy it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
why we haven't either  
but we you know we like the the idea of having great extra quality you know   in your music and things  
but but i'm satisfied to just have what i've been used to not have to think about the great financial   sacrifice that that would be to suddenly try to switch over to all c d or something  
but i know one thing that has colored my music choice is when we had children um i really started to think about what kind of television programs i was watching   and what kind of music i was listening to and   activities  
because um you know i just didn't want them to be exposed to a lot of things  
and a lot of the lot of the songs have some lyrics that um   i just wasn't pleased with   you know  
uh_huh  
and so i really think we've tried to tone down   our taste there to make uh you know our children not be exposed to so many negative things so early in life  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yes  
i know what you mean  
i i know my husband he um plays an instrument  
and he played in the band when he was in college and in high school  
and so he has a lot of all different kinds of music  
and he goes out of his way to play marching band music   or like you say jazz or classical to the children to to give them some exposure to different kinds of music  
and i think that's really good because they're learning to like all different kinds  
and  
he plays the  
it's a [euphonium]  
it's like a small a really small not a tuba but i  
it's hard to explain  
i never had known anyone to play one before  
but it's kind of like a small small tuba but it's not the kind that sits up on your shoulder  
but it's a cross between a tuba and and an and you know a horn  
it's a brass instrument  
so he plays that and and a little bit of piano  
and   but he has some real fond memories of marching band   and concert band type activities  
and he thinks that would be good for the kids  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh so jack what type of music do you like  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i enjoy classical too  
i never really had listened to it till i i got married  
and and my wife uh enjoys it  
so i had never listened to it till then  
but now i listen to it well whenever she does  
and even every once in a while i put it on myself you know  
um  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
see those those are really nice  
i like those  
though i i couldn't tell you anything about them other than when my wife says this is bach you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that you  
what you like  
how about popular music  
um   yeah  
yeah  
i'm pretty much the same way  
you know people always say wow the [meanings] of those words  
and i'm always meaning  
there's well you know  
i just thought they just all sort of [rhymed] you know  
right  
yeah  
that whenever they say it two or three times  
i'm the same way  
yeah  
it's funny uh depending on where you live  
i i i commute back and forth between baltimore and a rural town called salisbury   which is two and a half hours away  
and the difference in the radio with popular music   is totally different you know  
when  
yeah  
because baltimore will play more uh what might be considered a little bit more progressive  
and as soon as you go down to salisbury this town that's you know uh two and a half hours away in the suburbs or whatever uh in a real rural uh maryland   they it turns into basically classic rock  
and they don't you know  
yeah  
mostly oldies  
but classic rock you know with  
if you know like when the doors movie came out you know doors was really on the radio there   you know where you know you'd hear one or two of their more famous songs maybe top forty in baltimore  
but in salisbury you that's all you would hear was this is the doors you know  
so it was sort of a funny thing  

yes  
that's  
i'm starting to realize that  
i never really thought about that much  
but there is  
yeah  
i never   i never i didn't  
i i lived in pittsburgh before baltimore  
and i didn't i never really noticed the difference when i moved to this area  
i really didn't notice at all  
it just seemed the same  
but when i went more rural you know that it really changed  
so  
oh does it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
boy that would really be beneficial  
because you never hear the you never hear the news basically on the radio  
i never get it  
you know and if you don't if you don't read the paper you sort of fall behind if you're in   the car all the time  
yeah  
that's pretty good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
on fact my uh my grandmother does that a lot   because she's blind  
or she's losing her sight or whatever  
but  
yeah  
that of in  
i can imagine you know if you're driving cross country   you know uh listening to a story  

lot of the classics are really   on tape  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that would be good  
well we [strayed] a lot from music  
but i but i guess music comes into that whole aspect of listening   so as long you're listening  
so  
but if you do if you do have to go something i guess we can just cut off  
well jack it was nice to talk to you  
and good luck  
and i hope you get some more calls and make some more calls  
bye  
well i like uh classical   and uh sort of uh popular rock type music uh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yep  
yeah  
i i used to play the piano  
and i like uh bach and   um sort of the baroque music [handel] and   uh vivaldi and those kinds of  
yep  
yep  
oh  
yep  
yep  
well i you know i don't i don't know all that much myself  
i just i just know   when i hear it that i like it  
yeah  
uh [whatsever's] on the radio is is usually okay with me  
but   um sometimes i have a hard time you know hearing the words clearly if i'm in the car and there's noise and stuff  
so  
it's mostly just the tunes  
yeah  
i know  
i know  
i know  
about the only thing i can remember after the song is over is the [refrain]  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
oldies or what  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there's a big variation among the country  
i mean if you   go down south country music and  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
chicago has a lot of good stations uh  
yes  
uh in fact they have they have a continuous news station which is nice if you're driving and you want to  
now you don't have to wait till the hour mark  
it's it's it's sort of constant  
you just turn there  
and uh you get the latest news and everything  
it's uh it's sort of like c n n you know  
you turn on your t v  
and it's on  
so yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yep  
yep  
yep  
so  
yeah  
i like to listen to tapes uh of music or   or um stuff on a long trip  
and um now you can even get books on tape um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yep  
yep  
so that's a lot of fun  
but  
yep  
yeah  
i guess so  
well  
right  
right  
yep  
yep  
okay  
yep  
nice talking to you tom  
all right  
good  
thank you  
bye bye  
well uh if you had to pick a a type of music that you like would you be able to  
country music  
i  
uh   uh are you from texas  
not originally  
where you from  
georgia  
okay well see  
i'm i'm from chicago  
so uh i'm kind of in a different category here uh  
uh i would probably go with  
it's tough uh i think i would just stick with the classics only because uh i like music just for music's sake  
and uh you know i'm from the era where you know we had all the rock and roll  
i'm forty  
so i'm you know part of that whole deal  
and uh that was a real interesting time  
and you know the music sort of made the whole time very rich with sound  
uh but i think i'd stick back with my beethoven and my bach and my mozart  
i mean because it's just  
it will always be there  
it's classic  
and i don't have to worry about you know what's current and what's not because i haven't been current with music for a long time  
but you know same uh  
and as far as country music is i've never really uh listened to it  
i mean because that's just  
it was  
it wasn't part of what i knew  
so there you go  
right  
yeah  
i  
it's it's a different perspective on everything too  
i i know well whenever they talk about uh country music it's about it seems sad to me  
it's always about some guy losing some girl and then you know playing the guitar and singing about it  
yeah  
well i must say though uh i listen to amy grant  
do you consider her country  
uh uh let's see well name some people that are country that i should listen to  
that would be good  
okay  
oh okay  
i i must admit that's yeah they're fantastic  
so uh uh  
she's something though  
she's got so much energy  
well i guess i i have listened in on some of the stuff and not really realized it that i do like some of that  
uh [dolly] [parton] she's kind of  
is she kind of country  
kind of  
right down there  
uh uh how about the oak ridge boys  
very much  
okay  
well i like them too  
so i guess i've had a [smattering]  
and i just uh you know picked  
i've picked up a little bit along the way that i probably wouldn't have if i'd stayed up north you know  
you know so well i think there's music all around anyway  
i mean i think life is just music  
so you know you can hear it wherever you want  
and uh and i've i've kind of [shied] away from some of the new stuff because i just don't understand it  
but maybe twenty years from now they'll look at it as classic rock and roll which i really like  
so  
yeah  
the greatest hits  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
so i mean it it it'll if it stands the test of time we'll see  
and uh then it'll  
if it survives then it'll just probably be one or two songs that sort of hey listen what we listened to  
can you believe this sort of thing  
but uh you know i i think of  
i get real tickled when i listen to some of these old [beatle] uh music you know the [orchestration] of it and that it's so popular still  
and and uh you know all these rocks rock stations call it classic soft rock you know  
but we used to listen to it full blast  
yeah  
so it's kind of funny the way we listened to the stuff  
but i don't know  
well you got any more  
well that's  
[okeydoke]  
well it was great  
yeah  
and we'll uh listen to some more music  
and uh i'll look at some country  
okay  
bye bye  
well i could pick country music  
as i've gotten older i've started listening more to the words of music   and to the softer melodies  
not originally  
georgia  
if you had to pick one what would you choose  
well i understand what you're saying  
i think if you would listen to it a little you would discover that it has a lot of roots from the both from the classics and from some of the rock and roll of the era that that we both lived through  
uh  
well there's some joy in it also  
but mostly it it just tells a story about life  
i don't know  
i'm not all that familiar with her work  
well i kind of like uh i like groups like the [statler] brothers   and the [judds] certainly  
[reba] [mcintire] is a little too country for me  
that's true  
oh yes  
that's certainly where her roots are  
very much so  
that's true  
well it's just difficult for me to believe that anybody's ever going to make a a record of the rap songs of the eighties  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
right  
of course  
well the big key is that i think you've already stated that all music is rooted in the classics  
and it has grown from there  
well listen i have to run i hate to cut   this short  
you bet  
bye bye  
um i guess we're supposed to talk about music  
and uh let me go ahead and push one here  
uh do you  
are you a musician yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
where  
do you sing in in a choir or a choral group  
uh_huh  
what kind of singing do you like to do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um are you uh are are have you have you been singing a long time  
or have you studied  
uh_huh  
right  
oh really  
oh great  
did did you do that in uh texas or somewhere else  
oh  
whereabouts  
uh_huh  
oh that's wonderful  
um well i likewise sang in high school and in college in choirs  
and then i didn't sing in a choral group um until after i was uh married  
and i sang in a couple of uh community choirs and then um waited for a while  
and now i've for about the last eight years i've sung in a church choir here   in texas  
and um so i i enjoy   just the [chorals] singing a lot   as well  
um are you a soprano alto or  
a soprano  
yeah so am i  
do you  
and uh what kind of music do you like to sing  
um you were saying you had classical training  
do you have a particular composer that you like or   a particular type  
uh_huh  
i've been listening to um some uh some advertisements for madam butterfly  
and i'm wondering if you if you have ever done anything like that  
have you ever done any uh if   if you had done madam butterfly  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
um madam butterfly was um   in dallas  
it's been two or three years ago now  
and then i went to see that  
and   it was really wonderful  
it was particularly well  
the acting was particularly nice i thought  
and um so   it was quite popular  
um you don't play um an instrument  
so   uh um have you ever wanted to like guitar or piano or  
yeah  
yeah  
that i think that's always a good instrument for anybody who sings or does you know some other kind of instrument  
i think piano is always good background  
[beginner]  
um i played piano all through well i guess from the time i was five until i graduated from college  
and uh then i was a piano teacher for a while while my husband was in graduate school  
so um that was the instrument both of my children started on  
but neither of them stayed with it  
one of them um turned into a [violist]  
and the other one is the boy is um guitar and and [percussion]  
so  
um but the  
i i think that the piano background is very um useful  
and um i'm sure that it for you it would have been great to be able to [accompany] yourself   just for practicing and so on  
uh_huh  
do you have any other kind of music that you like  
uh_huh  
i have a  
i used to work with a fellow who had um  
although this was a computer company he had his uh p h d in musical uh i guess it was in composition actually from university of north texas  
and uh yet when i would go into his   his office every now and then you never knew what kind of music he'd be playing on the radio  
it may be country  
it might be classical  
it might be rock you know  
it was just he said that that just about what you said that he just liked all kinds of music  
and that was that was neat for for me to hear that somebody is  
yeah  
yeah  
um do you have any plans to uh do anything with your music in the near future  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know that there are if you're interested in choral singing  
i'm not sure where   you are in texas  
but i do know that some communities have   uh community [choruses]  
and   uh that's often a good way to get back into it again  
um it's not terribly demanding  
you might have to [audition]  
but that probably wouldn't be a problem  
but um there usually you know  
that they take tours and things like that  
and you get to know   you know people socially as well as as in a musical setting  
so   that's always fun  
i think that's well that's one reason why i have enjoyed my choir so much is that not only do we sing wonderful music  
but we've gotten to know each other quite well um in on a a social level  
and   and i think we sing better because of that  
i think you know   i think we sing more like uh people who trust each other   which is really nice  
so whereabouts in   texas are you if i could ask  
flower mound  
okay  
well i'm in plano  
so um we're just not too far apart actually  
uh_huh  
it was funny um uh  
it's you know  
i talk to people all over uh texas um and only one person outside of the uh of the state  
so i'm always asking where where in the state you know the person is from if they're in texas  
um are do you have a family  
uh_huh  
i was wondering if your if your spouse  
or if you know if you had uh other musical people in your family  
uh if you have other people in your family who are also musical  
uh_huh  
do you come by it naturally  
was your were your parents that musical  
yeah  
yeah  
that often is the case um  
the you know  
it's it sometimes it will skip  
like my husband is not musical at all  
but his mother is very musical  
and um and his children are very musical  
so you never know where the talent is going to show up i guess sometimes  
so um well i'm not sure how long we've talked  
i haven't paid haven't been paying attention to the to the clock  
but uh i'll bet we've done we've done at least five minutes  
well i've enjoyed talking with you   uh becky  
and um maybe we'll talk again  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh well i sing  
i don't play an instrument  
oh not right now  
oh pretty much anything  
oh yeah  
a long time out all through college and everything i was in the choirs  
and i've had some classical vocal training  
uh_huh  
no  
i was in europe  
in uh in germany  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
soprano  
oh well  
as far as opera goes i'm i think most fond of [verdi]  
no  
no  
i haven't done uh  
i'd love to  
but um that's uh puccini i think  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no   uh i think it would be nice if i played the piano  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
um oh i like to listen to all different kinds of music  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there's you know some of the really totally country stuff i don't really particularly like  
but  
well i have i have like we  
i wish i could  
but i i don't really know how to go about it without having a degree  
or  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i'm in flower mound  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's pretty close  
yeah  
um i'm married  
i'm sorry  
oh a little bit  
yeah  
i think so  
i think  
probably  
okay  
all right  
thanks  
bye bye  
okay  
right  
why did i pick music  
oh because i know a little bit about music you know  
so i thought that i would put that  
plus i i like uh to listen to music  
um i really enjoy the oldies  
is what i really listen to most of the time  
uh  
usually in the fifties  
i'm not really sure  
i think it's it's a fifties sixties and seventies station that i listen to  
oh really  
i don't know a lot of the um uh [musicians'] names or the [singers'] names  
but i know a lot of the old songs  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have  
um i played the [accordion] for seven years  
and i played the clarinet for seven years also  
no  
i played the [accordion] until i got into about sixth or seventh grade  
and then in fourth grade i started the clarinet  
and i played that all through high school  
i was  
yes  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
and then in concert band i played the bass clarinet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
i like the low notes better than the high notes  
so  
we didn't have any bass clarinet players  
so i asked him if i could play it because i was first clarinet  
and they end up playing a lot of the high notes  
and i don't i don't care for the sound of the high notes  
so i asked him if i could play the bass clarinet  
and he said sure you know  
he didn't have anyone to play it  
so i played it  
and i really enjoyed it  
uh_huh  
pardon me  
no  
i really don't go to very many concerts  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh wow  
i would love to be able to go see les [miserables]  
oh my gosh  
holy smoke  
oh i would love to go see that and cats   chorus line  
i would love to be able to go see those  
they do  
but i work  
and i went to i go to college  
i had just gotten  
i just graduated from college in may  
and so i really didn't have the chance or the money to go see them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my brother doesn't even like that kind of stuff  
and he went to new york  
a bunch of  
there was like twenty students from high school that went  
and he went to new york with them  
and he saw it  
and he said it was the best thing he'd ever seen  
and he doesn't even like that type of stuff  
oh really  
oh  
oh see now i like that type of stuff  
but my fiancee doesn't really like it  
he's more into the new wave music  
yeah  
i guess i don't know either you know  
oh i don't know uh  
really weird names like the dead [milkman]  
or i don't know  
oh it's you know really weird stuff he likes  
and i thought oh my gosh  
yeah  
well  
i pretty i'll listen to anything basically except i don't like the real hard metal rock  
i just refuse to listen to that at all  
i'll even listen to country  
i don't i like some country  
uh_huh  
do you like randy travis  
uh_huh  
oh hank williams junior  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well those should be good albums  
if you have the chance  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um i don't know  
maybe you wouldn't like randy travis  
he's really country himself  
but uh i you know i i really enjoy listening to his music  
oh i don't know  
if i were you i would get the greatest hits album   if he had one because you know that would have a mixture of all his you know top songs on it  
but um we have i think four records of his  
i can't you know name the names of them off hand  
but we have i think all his records so far  
and all my brothers and sisters listen to them even the ones that like the heavy metal   they really enjoy listening to him  
so  
you know maybe if you did like hank williams and garth you know maybe you would enjoy uh randy travis  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um do you know any oh  
i was going to say do you know any other country singers that you would you know i mean the women do you like the  
okay  
now now we're supposed to talk about music  
why why did you check music  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what kind of music do you enjoy  
like what what kind of oldies  
like the fifties oldies or older oldies  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they have the same kind of station down here  
and when i listen to music most of the time that's what i listen to  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we just got a disk the other day that was a um disk of nat nat king [cole's] greatest hits  
and it is excellent  
it it's about twenty of his greatest hits on it  
it's really an excellent excellent c d  
we are we were really quite pleased with it  
it was good  
have you um do you listen  
have you heard of nat heard of nat king cole  
okay  
well um um do you play any musical instruments or anything  
really   at at the same time or  
uh_huh  
like so you're in the marching band and stuff in high school  
yeah  
i i played the [baritone] horn   in high school band and in college  
so and my wife played flute in high school  
so  
really  
really  
actually that's exactly the same thing my ex wife did  
she played the clarinet  
and then she played bass clarinet during concert band  
yes  
yeah  
so  
um well i like it  
i i like the low instruments better too  
um do you go to do you go to listen to much live music  
do you listen to much live music like concerts or things there  
uh_huh  
we're we're going to one here in a couple of weeks  
the  
um um i don't know if you follow broadway much  
but uh michael [crawford] was in phantom of the opera on broadway  
you know you know whom i'm talking about  
and he's coming to dallas on the twenty ninth  
and we got a big group going down to hear him sing a bunch of uh [andrew] [lloyd] [webber's] music  
so that'll be good  
my sons are kind of into broadway  
they they my my older son is at columbia in new york city  
and he's been to see phantom and les [miserables] and bunch of other things up there  
so  
and he does it  
he can go if they get sixteen dollar tickets   to that thing  
yeah  
yeah  
and one of the uh  
the last time they went up a friend of his wanted to go  
and chris didn't want to go  
so the friend david went  
and he went and bought one of the low priced student tickets  
and they they gave him the seat that normally belongs to john [bel] john  
it's his house seat  
that's under his control  
and he said it was a great seat  
so he he's been to they've been to see it several times  
yeah  
yeah  
would they  
do don't any of those ever come to pittsburgh  
sure  
well we're kind of you know  
they  
well i saw two two road shows of les  
and they were both excellent  
so if it comes to pittsburgh in the road shows and i think they have three different companies that tour the u s um you should go see it because it's really it's really outstanding  
right  
well i think it's just incredible  
i  
and then you know those um two guys who wrote les [mis] wrote a new show call miss [saigon]  
yeah  
it just opened in new york this spring  
and my son and his friend were in a lottery to get tickets to it  
and they got tickets for the opening night  
and they went to it  
and they said it was it was great it was great  
yeah  
like depressed mode  
and  
yeah  
i don't too much  
but my younger son listens to some of that kind of stuff  
so he listens to new wave  
and you listen to the oldies  
that's kind   of different  
well that's good though you know  
it's good to cover all the bases there  
uh_huh  
well we don't now we don't listen to much country  
but we just  
at the same night we bought that nat king cole album we bought garth [brooks'] album no fences  
that is excellent  
we   well we i've never never listened  
i mean i've i've probably heard him  
but i've never bought any of his music  
garth brooks is probably the only country album we have  
or no wait my wife bought an album of hank [williams'] greatest hits  
nope  
this is hank williams   senior  
so these are a bunch of old recordings  
she bought that the same night we bought the nat king cole and the garth brooks  
it is pretty good  
she likes it  
it's a little it's a little too country for me  
it's a little too uh [ronky] [tonk] or something  
i like i like the garth brooks album a lot  
it's pretty good  
it's pretty good  
uh_huh  
which album which of his albums do you think is the best  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i i think we'll probably get one one of his albums because we do kind of like it  
but   you know it's kind of different  
so so it's good  
yeah  
we do like the  
in fact we have a album  
well my favorite type of music is classical music  
and uh i i enjoy [orchestral] classical music  
and i enjoy classical guitar and classical piano you know  
and that's those are that's my favorite type  
uh probably the favorite instrument would be uh the violin  
yeah you know  
i guess i enjoy i enjoy jazz listening to jazz sometime although i don't feel like i have a good good understanding of it or a good a good feel for maybe what's good jazz and what's not  
but but um i enjoy it  
and uh sometimes i enjoy listening to uh fiddle music  
we were in colorado recently  
and heard this these uh well we heard this [fiddler]  
and we bought his we bought his tape  
and it's kind of fun to listen to the   fiddle pans  
so  
oh chris [xeros]  
oh you lucky thing  
yeah  
oh gosh  
chris [xeros]  
you grew up with his children too then  
oh gosh  
gosh  
small world huh  
oh  
oh gosh  
well actually i used to play in the richardson symphony  
i played violin in the orchestra for several years   you know  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
small world  
so i uh i know chris  
most of the time  
no  
no  
well life just took different turns here  
so uh it just didn't work out to do that now  
so he's he's about ready to retire another year  
and he  
yeah  
i heard that  
it's it's daughter it's his daughter that  
oh  
was it a boy or a girl  
yeah  
what did they name him  
oh  
oh  
of course  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh so you've heard the richardson symphony  
yeah  
do you have a favorite instrument  
yes  
oh did you  
oh  
oh  
and it played by itself  
well i mean but you didn't have [oboe] or something with it  
yeah  
oh  
well that's really yeah that's i bet that was nice  
oh  
right  
right  
right  
well actually i play i play the violin in in a string [quartet] that often plays at weddings  
so um i always think it's a nice break from the traditional organ or piano  
and it makes it makes it nice  
it makes you know you can say [classy]  
or it makes an elegant wedding to have   something else  
oh  
yeah  
oh now does does the school in in your in your city  
does it does it offer like band or some of the instruments  
okay  
right  
right  
right  
probably oh  
gosh  
yeah  
right  
right  
you got a little ways to go too  
right  
hey oh  
well my well my oldest is eight  
and and she's we've started her on piano  
so uh  
but that's been it's been fun  
i mean it's a lot of work to see that she's prepared  
but it's been fun  
it's been fun  
i feel like i've learned a lot about the piano  
i've learned a lot about playing the piano  
and uh it kind of makes me listen a little closer to to the piano when i hear it at other places or when i you know see some see and hear someone playing  
i sort of watch their technique too and and see if it [corresponds] up to what she's learning  
so it's been fun  
well  
oh well my favorite well  
i i don't really have a favorite  
i i like everything basically  
um i guess if i had to pick it would be like pop i would think  
but i like everything  
so it's kind of hard to choose sometimes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i grew up next door to uh the richardson symphony orchestra leader  
so  
yeah  
so we used to go and listen to them all the time  
and my parents still do  
so i grew up with a lot of his music and and what not  
plus my parents are well  
especially my dad likes a lot of classical music  
and he introduced my brother and i both to a lot of it  
so  
yeah  
sure did  
yeah  
we all went to high school together  
and uh and we're still in contact with each other  
we all go back to parents' houses on the weekends and what not  
so  
oh really  
it is a small world isn't it  
yeah  
he's a pretty nice guy  
yeah  
well i never i had to work for him  
and i never would want to work for him  
so  
yeah  
he sure is  
he just became a grandfather  
uh uh_huh  
yeah  
they just had the baby's [christening]  
so  
it was really nice so  
he's a little boy  
i can't  
it it's a  
oh gosh  
it's like [elijah] or something like that  
i keep forgetting what what she named him  
his middle name is chris or christopher for   for her daddy  
but i think it's [elijah]  
it starts with an e  
i can't remember  
yes  
yeah  
we've heard them and liked liked it real well of course  
um actually one of my favorite instruments is a harpsichord  
i really like those  
in fact i had a harpsichord played at my wedding  
yeah  
which was real nice  
i got married uh during the christmas season  
and we played uh old fashioned christmas [carols] instead of normal wedding [marches] and what not  
and it was real nice  
i liked that a lot  
i liked the sound of the harpsichord  
no  
somebody played it  
no  
no  
no  
no  
no  
just by itself  
just by itself  
it was real nice  
yeah  
it went well  
it was a change you know from your traditional normal you know stuff and since it was christmas time and and uh we had the church decorated with christmas hollies and [poinsettias] and you know stuff like that  
and   so we did the harpsichord with old time traditional christmas [carols]  
not not you know the [bouncy] you know   sing along kind but   some of the old older ones that  
some i don't even i recognize the the melodies and whatnot  
but i didn't recognize the name  
so it was real nice  
um  
uh_huh  
it does  
it really does  
and it has such a different sound to it anyway  
it's almost  
i don't know the way it [vibrates]  
it's kind of [haunting] you know on on some of the notes  
it it's  
i i like it  
i don't know how else to explain  
but we've got friends that are in the music business that go around dallas  
they're uh called [odessa]  
it's a husband and wife team that we've known for years  
and uh we try to make contact with them periodically to see what's going on and stuff too  
so we've had a lot of stuff you know friends and and things to do with music that constant  
plus my husband's real big into music too  
so he doesn't play anything  
but   he just likes to listen  
and my dad and  
my kids are now well  
my oldest is getting to the point where he likes certain types of music and favorite songs and when they come on we have to turn the radio up full blast  
and  
yeah  
well my my oldest is only nine  
so he hasn't really gotten into um that yet  
they have choir that they go to you know music   class that they go to  
but um he's not old enough yet to get into the band yet  
so  
i think that starts in sixth grade  
so  
but i don't know  
he he's he the only thing he's shown interest in wanting to play is the drums  
cause his my brother plays  
and um i don't i don't know if he's really serious about it yet or not you know  
it's just one of those things i'm just going to wait and see if he's interested   in something you know  
yeah  
just a little bit  
uh  
really  
yeah  
i don't know if any of mine will be interested in it  
or  
okay well um  
i um i was thinking about it for a long time  
and i like basically almost every form of music and type of music  
um i don't have a whole lot of [dislikes]  
i um like jazz um especially the blues  
and uh i like uh a lot of the uh of course the classics um everything back from bach and and beethoven and chopin and um just in general everything  
um i enjoy uh a lot of the the modern forms um uh  
right  
right  
uh well   that gets  
some of the punk um when i was in high school that was uh one of the big things was punk music  
and uh a lot of it is has a lot to say or some of it has a lot to say the music does the lyrics do  
but the the actual  
uh well it it's it's it really [expresses] some of the opinions of of the people who enjoy the music  
um but as far as a musical art form i just don't see a whole lot of art to it  
um  
um some of it um  
it depends  
i like uh the rap the two types of rap i like or i enjoy to listen to and one is the the rap that is just funny um  
and they usually do a lot of satire  
um  
right  
right  
the monotonous   the monotonous  
no  
that's not  
i don't enjoy that at all   when they're just talking about well i'm better than you and blah blah blah  
i don't like   that  
i like the funny satire  
and then some of it is some of it actually gets into some serious discussions of problems in our in   urban society  
it really does  
it talks about um race relations and police relations  
and um that that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that's about my opinion of that  
it's it's okay um  
um the thing about country western that i don't enjoy is is doesn't seem to be any imagination behind it  
the one country and western song sounds like every other   country and western  
and so the the musicians don't get to really get into their music  
they just play a certain number of [chords]  
the drummer plays a certain beat  
and you have a country and western song  
and  
um   right  
yeah  
and i can't say that i like a lot of the modern the very very   modern uh rock and roll  
but i i definitely i really enjoy the fifties the sixties and a lot some of the seventies   rock and roll  
and uh i really enjoy especially the sixties  
what kind of music do you like  
uh_huh  
do you like like rock and those kind of things   punk even  
i don't think they have a whole lot to say even  
yeah  
i guess  
uh_huh  
do you like rap  
yeah  
that kind i kind of like  
some of it is kind of   [pointless]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess i don't really care to listen to rap that much except for once in a while some of the funny   more satire kind some times  
um i'm with you though  
i like classical  
um i don't like to listen to it all the time but um some of the time anyway  
i like easy listening just kind of you know  
i guess i don't care much for rock and roll any more  
i used to like it all right  
but i don't really care to listen to it any more for some reason  
um let's see  
country western uh i'm not quite as big on that  
some of it's okay uh  
yeah  
some of it kind of falls in the rap category i guess  
so  
yeah  
a lot of them   sound uh really similar  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
well that's kind of the way i feel about rock and roll sometimes too i guess  
they don't really  
has kind of the same sound over and over  
and the other thing i don't like about it is they have a tendency to play the instrumental so loud that you can't understand what the lyrics are  
you can't understand what they're saying on some of those songs   which probably is just as well on some of them too  
yeah  
yeah  
earlier things  
okay  
basically i can tell you that i like just about every music there is except for uh uh real hard hard rock  
i really can't get into that  
but   i go from classical all the way to uh jazz and country and   uh soft pop uh  
so i pretty much have a a wide range of uh what i like  
and   just there isn't any particular music that i enjoy more than just listening to all kinds  
so that's about it  
i can even take the  
now it's it's pretty neat music   that they came out with  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
the old old stuff that came out i think it was was it oh jeez came out with some of that hank williams  
you talk about twangy  
yeah  
oh yeah  
the old old country  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's the way i am too  
so other than uh  
as far as instruments i can go from piano to the saxophone  
lately you know with the new music that has come out some of the really good uh music   they have the saxophone playing  
and it's so funny because you can take an instrument and forget what it really sounds like when it plays by itself  
oops are you okay [tiana] come here honey  
oh my daughter just fell  
uh yeah  
a little bit  
i can i can pretty much  
oh it's all wet [tiana]  
i just wiped uh did the floor  
and she slipped  
anyway but uh um yeah  
i can take all kinds of music pretty much   except for when you get like i said into the real hard rock  
yeah  
i have no interest in that  
i i don't have interest of losing my ears  
let's just put it that way   hearing anyway  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
exactly  
okay  
well it was good talking to you then  
okay  
you too  
bye now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm pretty much the same way  
but there's like certain types of country western i can't handle   that twangy stuff  
yeah  
my in laws listen to the kind of music i hate  
the old real old yeah  
but other than that i like pretty much everything  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you like kenny g  
uh_huh  
on  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the heavy metal  
yeah  
i saw peter townsend on t v last night  
and he said he's lost most of his hearing  
and i thought no wonder  
so  
um  
well same here  
you all have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
who do you like  
yeah  
that's the same with me same with me  
uh_huh  
like clint black he's pretty good  
and who's the other big guy  
garth brooks  
yeah  
that's yeah that's the other guy i was thinking of was garth brooks  
yeah  
in fact i think both of them have performed here  
and kenny rogers he's kind of country western verge you know   on the verge of country western  
oh wonderful  
well then of course you like him  
that's great  
but well i have teen age children  
and so you know i'm hear the the rock music not the hard rock but the you know michael bolton type stuff  
he's my personal favorite  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
i i don't i don't actually we don't listen to any elevator music at my house  
but i've got teenagers  
so  
yeah  
that's good  
i actually when i'm home alone which isn't too often but uh our public radio station has wonderful classical music  
it's just very wonderful [soothing] and you know uh lot of [symphonies]  
and i just i love that  
that's probably my all time favorite  
um  
right  
right  
relax  
yeah  
what do you teach what grade  
good for you  
a certain subject  
good for you  
i was just sitting here while she was trying to find a a another caller uh  
i was reading  
my my husband and i are taking a computer class at our junior college  
yeah  
it's pretty good  
it's just a real basic class  
but we're learning a lot  
and we have a home computer  
so it's it's very interesting  
yeah  
the subject of music  
i play i play piano  
i took lessons for thirteen years  
and right now my nine year old is taking piano  
and i just got a whole mess of music  
i i play the volunteer to play the piano at the children's christmas program for the whole grade school which is k through six   five hundred kids  
i did it last year  
and and um i i just sub at the school  
i don't want to work full time  
so i just sub at the school  
and that's kind of my volunteer thing  
so that it it's really neat  
and my older daughter plays the saxophone  
my next son plays the drums  
and my third son just started [baritone] this year  
and my little girl will start french horn next year  
so  
oh  
french horn is absolutely wonderful instrument  
it's just my favorite  
of course that's what i played  
and so i'm pushing that on my daughter because i want to play in our city band not the symphony with just the city band   once we get the the french horn  
and i get a little bit more time  
right now i'm busy chasing my kids  
i do i do i love it  
but we have a a marvelous band instructor  
and and he's just he's wonderful  
we have uh couple of hundred kids in the band  
our junior high band is just wonderful  
he lot  
and their concert band  
and then he has a jazz band that my older daughter was in  
and my son will be in next year  
that's  
i mean they play college level music in junior high  
he's that good of an instructor  
and the kids just love him  
so it's really good  
it is wonderful  
oh do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
what kind do i like  
i like just about any kind except country and western  
it's it's course country  
and western even i've gotten a little bit used to because it's not like it used to be  
well in oklahoma we say garth brooks  
right  
of course garth brooks lives about uh you know  
his his home town is about uh fifteen minutes away  
so he is he's a home boy  
uh_huh  
my son is uh twenty eight  
so but he he's real unusual in that uh  
he likes a little bit of every kind  
he likes jazz   and uh blues and and course the rock  
i i can't say he's real crazy about elevator music as he calls it  
well my teenagers are all gone  
i can listen to any music i want to  
you know uh i i teach  
and we can have music in the classroom  
but it you know it can't be the rock or anything like that  
and i i find that the classical music is very good for the kids too it doesn't [disturb] them and   yet it's it's it   [stimulates] them  
and   and uh  
well it's ninth nine through twelve  
and  
well it's uh business technology  
but uh  
oh boy  
uh yeah  
i'd learn it too  
uh back to i guess we'd better get back to music though  
i uh  
do you play any instruments  
ooh you took on a  
good job  
oh well my son played the [sax] and drums my daughter the piano organ and french horn  
so  
oh okay  
yes  
sounds like you've got a [houseful]  
oh that's a  
oh that's wonderful  
i i have totally totally a tin ear  
and i love music  
i cannot carry a tune in a basket  
i know what i like  
but i  
you know and i love to listen to it love to sing and i my kids when i was little and they were little  
and i was rocking them singing to them  
okay  
all set  
good morning  
let's see  
music um  
well i play a couple of instruments  
i try to  
um clarinet is my primary instrument  
and i also play a little bit of saxophone flute and piano   when i get the opportunity which isn't very often  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
uh  
oh wow  
wow  
that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so are you a professional musician  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i understand  
yeah  
i'm in one community band here  
and that's just  
well we [rehearse] once a week  
we generally have a concert every other week  
and  
yeah  
that's a lot  
no  
we sure don't  
well one thing is we have a summer summer series  
and every single sunday night we play at the library to have a little   out outdoor stage set up  
and so we do that every sunday night   during the summer  
yeah  
and then i don't know we just have an awful lot of [engagements]  
and we're just having to turn a lot of people down um because you know uh we don't want to do things like have a concert back to back or even two days in a row  
oh yes  
definitely   we really do  
you know you get your little [sousa] book  
and you just flip through it and that sort of thing  
it really depends on who shows up  
um and it's always a mystery  
because it actually doesn't matter who shows up  
it matters what instruments they brought  
because so many   people switch instruments so often  
but um yeah  
in the winter we do more concert stuff  
and  
um i think there's about seventy  
yeah  
there's a lot  
but on any given night there's not seventy   you know  
it alternates quite a lot  
yeah  
it really is  
oh  
yeah  
well  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's fun  
well let's see  
well there's another band around here  
someone at work is trying to get me to join that one because they need clarinet players  
and their concert schedule isn't as heavy  
but they have more in the summer  
i think they have ten in the summer you know one one week after the other  
i think they're like monday nights   and they don't have rehearsals during that time period  
uh well it's not really sight reading when you've done it you know again and again and again  
but   some people are  
yeah  
some of them are  
well they're in the suburbs of dallas in richardson and plano  
we're real close to dallas  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's more of a i think it's very much more of a social group than anything else you know  
and and people always bring [refreshments] for after [rehearsal] and   hang around for an hour or so  
and   that's probably why we get so many people  
um well the conductor gets paid a little bit you know  
we do get some money from the city   because we do play at a lot of city events  
um i think he's the only one that gets paid  
the city  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's a similar thing  
i can't remember what they call it  
but the same type of thing  
um but we do get an awful lot of music you know  
we can borrow music from any of the area colleges  
or you know if some some group just isn't going to play any more they'll just give us their music and that type of thing  
and we do an awful lot of you know  
we don't charge for any of our performances  
but we get a lot of donations  
yeah  
good morning  
uh_huh  
what do you play  
uh_huh  
really  
that's too bad  
i play uh the violin   and play trumpet  
and i run a municipal band  
and i sometimes [conduct]  
so i'm pretty busy too  
i play in three different symphony orchestras  
we have a   nice big one here in state college called the [nitny] valley   symphony  
i play in the [altoona] symphony  
was about forty five miles away  
and i play in a slightly smaller one called the [lockhaven]   symphony and community orchestra  
no  
i'm uh just retiring from penn state university  
only i i should should have been  
i spend about half my time playing music or preparing for it somewhere  
but uh i've been working at uh penn state   and using up all my [nighttimes]   and weekends   uh going to these orchestra rehearsals and and concerts and so forth  
you have one that often  
that's amazing because   i i i have it set up here that we have at least six to seven rehearsals per concert  
wow  
uh_huh  
oh  
you are busy  
where do you get all this music  
i mean you you must back up and play some of the music twice  
oh okay  
so your you don't play pretty well a full concert band music most of the time then  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
how many people in your band  
seventy  
holy mackerel  
that's  
uh_huh  
boy  
that is a huge organization  
that's great  
because about the best i can normally hope for is about fifty   in in the band i have here  
but that fills a stage and keeps us busy  
but they were half have been professionals from uh a lot of them are from uh faculty at penn state here  
and so they want to play things that uh push them to do  
so that's why we have to work real hard when we get a concert together  
we have about four concerts per year indoors   and two or three that we play outside  
and the last one we did was in a large uh mall close here  
we played christmas about an hour out in this mall  
so that worked out very nicely  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
that  
are you just saying you you sight read every concert  
okay  
uh_huh  
and where where does this happen laurie  
is this in dallas  
uh_huh  
well i declare  
that's amazing  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
do any of your you in your group get paid for any of this  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and you do have to buy your music  
who who sponsors you basically the city  
yeah uh  
my band is sponsored through what they call parks and recreation  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well i i work the same way  
well i'll be darned  
it's amazing  
well what kind of music do you like  
yeah  
me too  
i mostly like classical and jazz  
yeah  
i play the trumpet  
uh_huh  
mostly the trumpet music uh uh uh baroque and uh uh uh   romantic  
baroque and romantic  
yeah  
that is not there is uh things written for doc [severenson] and uh a few other people  
but uh they are just uh  
as far as [solos] and [concertos] are concerned  
but the rest of them are just parts  
and uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
who are the trumpet players  
uh_huh  
leonard  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
richard [jung] [julio] recorded an album at the same time as  
didn't he  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that is what that is mostly the rest of good trumpet marks are romantic music [mahler] and [ruckner] and strauss  
uh i like i am liking it more and more now  
getting use to it  
they are mostly uh mostly mozart  
i mean there is not any kind of trumpet parts  
but uh you know the i just like the melodies more   and uh [libretto]  
uh yeah  
i like [rossini] better than puccini  
i like more comic licks  
no  
uh no  
i have never been to a dallas opera  
only the fort worth opera  
and my trumpet teacher used to play in the fort worth opera  
john nelson  
uh_huh  
yeah  
he plays in the fort worth symphony and fort worth mostly  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
which church is it  
it seems like a lot of churches are hiring more musicians now than they use to  
yeah  
he is still teaching at brookhaven  
isn't he  
uh yeah  
yeah  
because i heard glen bell taught at plano as well  
uh_huh  
well seeing as how i'm a musician i like all kinds of music  
all very very kinds  
uh_huh  
well i like everything from hard core country to you know wagner and [mahler]  
and i like new age stuff  
i i basically have a wide range of musical likes  
do you uh are you musical uh  
are you a musician at all  
do you  
jazz  
uh_huh  
right  
well i love baroque music  
so it is one of my favorite periods  
in fact i i sing with a texas baroque ensemble  
well we used to have uh ralph [dutchen]  
but now he is in massachusetts  
he has come back a couple of times  
then there is a trumpet player at north texas the the teacher the main teacher   yeah  
and he has played  
and the two of them have played natural [trumpets]  
and occasionally when she can't get those people we use you know just uh e flat [trumpets] with valves  
and like glen bell plays  
uh rick uh [bogarts] played   too  
so but actually i like trumpet and organ together  
it is a nice combination  
yeah  
i think he did  
with paul  
yeah  
he is wonderful  
both of them are  
so do you like romantic music  
uh_huh  
do you like opera  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you don't like puccini  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are you going to go see the [elixir] of love  
do you ever go to the dallas opera  
uh_huh  
who was your trumpet teacher  
uh_huh  
i know him  
i kind of know him  
is he still around here  
because i don't i have not seen him playing anywhere lately  
but maybe it is cause he is playing in fort worth  
well i am basically a church musician  
i do a church in plano  
and we do all kinds of music at my church  
and we hire lots of instrumentalists off and on for uh different things  
so i am always making music of one kind or another  
the christ united methodist church in plano  
yeah  
most churches have the  
well there are some of the few organizations that have the funds to uh you know do like big big works uh  
but we hire you know we hire an orchestra at least twice a year and then different instrumentalists off and on through out the year  
in fact we have  
do you know john [qumenato]  
he plays at our church a lot  
in fact he is playing this sunday at our church  
but he plays pretty regularly  
uh i think so  
he teaches a lot in plano at high schools  
and i think he teaches at brookhaven  
yeah  
glen teaches here too  
they are the two of them are mainly pretty much the they have [cornered] the market on trumpet  
why don't you tell me about your choir  
uh_huh  
great  
uh i play the piano  
and uh i have a four year old who who has started to play the piano  
he does that uh [musically] listens  
and then he can play which is kind of interesting  
i think it's because he's always heard music in our home all the since he was a baby  
uh my husband and my other son who's eleven just got through singing in a musical here in in the community at music man  
yeah  
and that's   lots of fun  
uh basically they read in the newspaper that there were open [auditions]  
it was the plano [repertory] theatre  
and so they went and tried out  
and my husband played harold hill from the music man  
and my son played one of the children in a band  
so yeah  
it was really fun  
and uh my son plays the clarinet in his band at school  
and my daughter takes piano lessons too  
but uh we just really like music  
it's a i i especially like it as an outlet when the t v goes off  
we   get the t v off and just have some nice quiet music  
uh_huh  
uh i have him take from a friend of mine who teaches suzuki   which is an [auditory] type learning experience  
you listen to the music and then learn to play it by by hearing the [intervals] and things like that  
i teach uh like what is traditionally taught you know  
you look at the note on the page  
and you play what's on the piano  
but he can't learn like that  
he's a delayed child  
he's only about i guess he's about two and a half in his real understanding of things  
and uh so when my friend played something on the piano and he played it uh with his right hand  
we went wow  
we better have him do do something   you know [educationally]  
so that was really fun  
my husband and i love to go to the musicals downtown though  
so my husband and i love to go to the musicals when they come into town   into dallas  
um  
oh i think that's great  
that's really hard i think because especially if you start them  
and then they get pretty good  
and then they get close ten you know eleven or something  
they go i don't want to do this anymore  
and you're like   god i really want you to do it  
you know  
so sometimes it's hard to to know exactly when  
but i don't know  
if she acts like she wants to or says she wants to maybe you could have her take some for a while and see how she likes it  
uh_huh  
that's like me  
well it can get expensive  
that's for sure  
i my friend is is very generous in in letting us have my children uh do the suzuki method   without paying a lot out  
yeah  
so it's been good for our family  
i don't have any suzuki students uh  
something happening to me at christmas time that that [verified] to me that i will  
oh  
okay  
well we uh are a group of uh musicians that just kind of have you know formed out of a desire to sing  
and many of the people in the group are very professional in the sense that they or just real talented i should say  
lot of them are former music teachers or currently teaching uh  
others have  
there's one gal that's in the uh plano community orchestra uh  
just you know different backgrounds  
it's been really kind of interesting  
so  
um  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh they did  
how did   how did they get involved in that  
uh_huh  
oh how fun  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
that's nice  
you say have your four year old taking lessons already  
and uh who do you have her or him take it from  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well because my  
pardon me  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i have an eight and a half year old daughter who's taking piano lessons and started out at the age of just turning five  
because she wanted you know she just seemed to enjoy it so much  
and now my my four year old four and a half year old daughter is is trying to imitate her older sister and wanting to play  
and she actually does some very nice [chording] just naturally  
she just  
so i wasn't sure when to start her  
i didn't want to push her too early either but uh kind of had a mixed feelings about that scene  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think she'd like to  
i just don't know if it's really  
knowing from what my daughter has gone through she's she learned a lot  
and of course it was something she had to keep [relearning] if she ever got away from it  
it was something easily forgotten  
so uh i don't know if she's any farther ahead than those kids who started when they were eight  
or or should i say seven  
i mean she's not a gifted [pianist] in the sense that she's going to excel just naturally  
she does have to really work at it  
but uh so  
yeah  
but so i'm kind of you know just playing with it  
but at this point we're going to kind of wait i think just more for the financial reasons of it anyway  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
well as a piano teacher do you have any feelings for kids who come from a suzuki method  
have you had any former suzuki students  
i was wondering how  
well uh what is your favorite kind of music  
oh same here  
yeah  
oh well i guess i like a wide range uh everything from uh from baroque through at least some modern music  
and my wife and i these days are especially into opera  
we've been sort of opera fans for a few years now  
well we uh generally  
the places we've gone they sing in the original languages  
like the dallas opera here normally does i guess  
well one thing that's helped us a lot is that uh you you know you can buy a lot of these operas now on video uh video tape  
and so we have quite a collection of those  
and you watch them at home  
and they have subtitles  
so you you figure out what's going on after a while  
and then you can enjoy it in the uh theater  
but you know the uh dallas opera now has uh super titles on on all their performances i think  
well they they give an uh an english translation on a on a screen up above the stage  
yeah  
in fact they even do that for operas sung sung in english because it is hard to understand the words sometimes  
yeah  
well i really like vivaldi  
uh he's uh definitely one of the one of the top of that era  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
how how old are they  
so they're doing this in school or what  
uh_huh  
well you've got half a string [quartet] there  
yeah  
well since you seem to like uh italian music have you ever uh gotten into [gabrielli] or anybody there in that era the uh period right before actually before vivaldi i guess  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
no  
i don't  
but i think i know what it is  
isn't that a uh uh see  
can't you get records through that or something recordings  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
i think uh  
uh  
uh yes  
right  
so they're actually [commissioned] performances  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i had heard good things about the uh music heritage society  
but if i get involved in one of those things i end up spending all my money on   on music  
i almost uh almost uh [bankrupted] myself out of college as a freshman when i got into the columbia record club many years ago  
yeah  
my roommate signed me up  
he got a bonus record  
and i got a lot of bills  
so we have to watch that  
uh do you play any instrument yourself  
well i have to say my favorite type of music would probably be uh classical music  
oh really  
what type of music do you like in the classical area  
or what era do you era do you like the most  
uh_huh  
um do you go to the operas that they sing english or go to the ones that they sing other languages  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i haven't gotten into that too much because i uh if i don't know the story line and um i don't speak the language then i have difficult time [comprehending] what's going on  
uh_huh  
oh  
what is that  
oh i didn't know that  
that can help people like me  
well i can understand that  
so i'd say   vivaldi is probably my favorite uh composer  
yeah  
i like baroque music  
i like full body music uh with the um um with brass and winds [woodwinds] instruments you know  
course i like uh also string instruments  
and i have two string instruments in my house uh instrument players  
both my sons play string instruments  
one plays the cello  
and the other one plays the [viola]  
so i get to go to at least four or five concerts a year  
one is thirteen and one is eleven  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
we're on our way  
so uh um i try to enjoy all of it  
um a little bit  
but um a lot of the um music i don't know about uh as far as the titles  
and i have to listen to it and   and figure out   what i'm listening to  
um i do belong to a musical heritage society  
do you belong to that  
you can get recordings  
uh they know have them on compact disc or   or uh or cassettes or l p  
and uh they do their they do a lot of original recordings themselves  
but they also uh they also uh go to the different composers or the different i guess  
what do you call them the guys that [orchestrate]   the the conductors  
yeah  
they go to conductors uh  
and and they actually have them perform the music  
and they record it  
sure  
a lot of them are  
or they will   find out when they're performing  
and they will uh record the music at that time  
and so uh it is uh uh high quality grade music  
and of course now they're getting they also have a jazz section  
and they also have a uh more contemporary and american   uh composer section  
yeah  
well you can control it  
oh really  
i see  
well that's good  
yes  
i i play guitar and and early years played saxophone  
favorite type of music or musician or any  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i i'm very uh i'm very varied as well  
i uh i don't think i've ever met a type of music i don't like except for uh maybe you know heavy metal and that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't enjoy rap too much either  
that that doesn't appeal to uh my ears  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
well um i listen to uh specific  
most most likely i would be listen to uh jazz or classical music  
um i in college i took uh four years of classical guitar  
and i played in the in the jazz [combo] all four years  
i play guitar   for the jazz [combo]  
so uh that's where my two my two listening [enjoyments] are  
but you know jazz can get on my nerves after a while  
uh you can't just listen to it you know to uh especially a lot of the deeper stuff  
you just can't listen to it for enjoyment unless you're   yeah unless unless you're playing it  
it just it just doesn't do anything  
uh uh blues are okay  
i i tell you i do like um  
i grew up on blue grass music  
my dad is a big blue grass fan  
and so  
um i wouldn't have admitted it when i was in high school  
but   i really do like it a lot  
so  
no  
it doesn't  
it doesn't  
yeah  
uh they've all got you know the real [screechy] electric [guitars] now  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i  
yeah  
i grew up on him   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh do you  
yeah  
you sure do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh they're great aren't they  
yeah  
yeah  
it sure is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i like his  
he has a nice smooth voice  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
something like that  
it was last last last year wasn't it  

i don't really have a favorite type  
i like uh a lot of different types of music  
yeah  
i have a a tape collection that i like to listen to uh cassette tapes  
but it's pretty varied  
yeah  
how about you  
that's exactly me  
the acid rock or the heavy metal  
even some of that i like okay   but not mostly as a general rule  
i don't care for that at all  
well as far as the rap goes i think there are a few artists that appeal to me   themselves  
and i like some of their songs  
but as as  
i agree with the general rule i i wouldn't choose rap either  
but i i like to listen to uh what you might call pop easy listening   country western jazz   uh classical um  
i i don't  
i like uh like i said pretty varied uh music  
i have a couple that my husband really hates   that i listen to   like billy holiday  
i really love to listen to her  
and uh i even have a a tape of lady smith [blackman] [bazo]  
and well i mean they're very [harmonic]  
they really are  
so they're interesting to listen to  
you might try that  
how about you  
oh yeah  
it's too um uh  
you have to concentrate on it it seems  
what about the blues or something like that  
uh_huh  
i i like some of it um  
as far as like the what they now call country western it doesn't sound like the old country music at all does it  
um some of it sounds more like pop music  
oh  
yeah  
i don't care for that   if i'm going to listen to today's country western i have tapes of like randy travis and clint black  
and   i even liked jim reeves   you know  
or uh what what [merle] [haggard]   and [faron] young  
that type of country western is   what i i like to listen to  
asleep at the wheel   uh sons of the pioneers you know stuff like that  
um oh i like sound tracks a lot  
yeah  
it seems like you get a lot of original music that way  
i mean you know think about like the twin peaks and stuff like that   that's just real recent  
things like that i like to listen to  
um i like instrumental things  
um i have some [spiro] [gyro] tapes  
oh they're wonderful  
i love them  
i have some [dulcimer] music  
i mean like i said that that's pretty varied  
al [jarreau] he's somebody i like  
he's pretty kind of jazz inspired but   but still kind of pop too  
oh yeah  
and you know what i like the most about him is i've gone to see him in concert and he always he looks like he's having fun  
i mean some people sing  
and they have their faced all [contorted]   like it hurts them or something  
but he looks like he's having a good time  
i mean he's up there moving around and smiling like he's happy   and and like all he wants to do is is make the audience enjoy it too  
and he he is real fun to listen to  
um [bonnie] [rait] i like her a lot  
um in fact whenever she won her big grammy  
i think it was like five of them or something  
was was it five  
or  
yeah  
last year or the year before i can't remember  
but um i was listening to a particular radio station  
and and the one d j said who the heck is [bonnie] [rait] and why does she deserve five [grammies]  
well i [vowed] then that i was not going to listen to that radio station any more if that d j can make such a  
music do you like  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i am more into rock and roll myself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh   uh_huh  
do you like any bluegrass  
oh  
well at least your  
not really  
yeah  
um  
uh we'll have to uh  
i have a lot of friends that like country music  
no  
i'm more into uh older rock like the [psychedelic] era like uh  
late sixties seventies uh  
[greatful] dead crosby [stills] and nash  
what  
oh i've heard a little bit of it  
i've just  
uh now i've heard of striper  
so the only one i can  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh the first of amy grant before  
was you know became more mainstream top forty  
uh_huh  
uh  
i've never actually seen her in concert  
i imagine that she puts on a pretty good show  
uh_huh  
uh_huh uh  
i like some country music  
it's just that i like finding a lot of it's  
yeah  
mama got run over by the train  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
like garth brooks  
[reba] [macintyre]  
you don't like [patsy] [cline]  
you don't like [patsy] [cline]  
uh yeah  
actually i just went to see the [greatful] dead about i guess about a week ago  
no  
they're they are still on tour  
they have been [touring]   since the late sixties  
no  
they're still together  
they're still   making albums  
uh_huh  
uh  
in fact i mean there are people you know that basically just follow them around from city to city   on tour selling tie dye and things like that  
uh  
yeah  
they're they're like late forties early fifties  
but you know like whenever one of them dies off they get a replacement  
you know they seem to have a really bad time with keyboard players  
they keep on dying  
and they keep on replacing them  
and the new ones in this thirties you know uh  
but uh  
yeah  
well they don't actually look as rough as the rolling stones  
they just  
i don't know if you saw the tour posters of the rolling stones when they last toured  
but it looked like leather day at the geriatric  
all their faces were just all [shriveled]  
uh_huh  
i mean it just just looked like they   got a bunch of retirees and put them in leather jackets and blue jeans  
well uh  
actually i prefer my my [performers] to be pretty sober you know just uh just so that you know that if they're [jamming] you know that they don't just lose themselves and you know go into [lala] land  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so uh have you seen any concerts lately  
uh lots of different kinds i guess  
uh i like country music of course  
texas  
and i listen to christian music a lot because there's a christian music station here in in our city  
so i listen to it quite a bit  
so  
uh_huh  
and i listen cause on friday nights they have the uh they have what they call saturday night alive  
or they have on saturday night friday night and saturday night   and they have christian rock and roll  
so  
you know they have that type of music  
but they just have different words  
so i listen to that too  
uh no  
not really  
huh_uh  
and i like   i like rap music  
do you like rap music  
not really  
well i can tell we're we're together here  
okay uh  
what kind of  
what kind of rock music do you listen to  
do you listen to like that really heavy metal stuff  
or  
seventies and like that stuff  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have friends that like that  
yeah  
so you have never heard of like the christian music that i listen to probably  
like have you heard of uh of [carmen]  
have you ever heard of [kim]  
striper  
they're the really heavy yeah   like the heavy metal stuff   i guess  
yeah  
yeah  
cause she she plays both [secular] and christian  
so  
yeah  
i like her too  
i have been to a concert a couple of times of hers  
she does  
she's real good she's real good  
so i like her  
i don't like the country music that's like my wife left me my dog   left me everybody's left me  
yeah  
i don't like that  
you know i like randy travis  
you know i like more of the real new ones you know  
garth brooks oh  
yes  
you know he's fine  
yeah  
i like them  
i don't care for the older you know like the dog left me stuff  
huh  
no  
huh_uh  
i don't even really know who she is you know  
you know so but have you ever been to any of them concerts that you like  
that music that you like to  
but aren't they done with  
i thought that they  
and i just thought that they done broke up and   left  
huh  
wow  
i didn't know that  
huh  
that's interesting  
uh_huh  
cause they are on up there in age aren't they  
okay  
alright  
oh alright  
cause they look pretty rough  
i mean i've seen like picture of them  
and they just  
yeah  
i mean cause they just  
uh_huh  
yuck looking i mean  
uh  
uh_huh  
well are you into that that rock music you know all that [druggy] stuff and all that i mean  
you know what i am saying  
like i mean like they come on the stage  
and like you know you  
they don't even know they are there you know  
they are just so out of it  
yeah  
so i just don't i just don't like you know  
that  
so i don't know  
um uh  
well what were you saying  
oh okay  
uh well i haven't really been up to date on a lot of music  
i've been in school  
and i haven't really gone out   and bought any or listened to much on the on the radio except for classical  
and uh  
yes  
uh_huh  
okay  
well i like most of them except for country music  
no  
i think i i might like dancing to it  
but i don't like listening to it  

oh  
uh_huh  
what's the old country music like  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
that's the kind you like you mean  
oh  
oh okay  
well i guess i i like the blues a lot  
and i guess you could say it's similar as far as   the kind of the way they do it  
yeah  
me too too  
i guess i like  
except heavy metal  
and uh most rap i don't like  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i i really haven't listened to that  
well uh i used to a long time ago  
but since i've started back into school now i haven't really done that much  
i've been pretty busy uh  
but uh  
so no  
i haven't  
i you know i used to go out and dance a lot  
but i don't do that anymore either  
so  
no  
i've just been real busy with with lots of other things  
twenty eight  
well no  
i i went to school and got a degree  
and then i worked for awhile  
and then i just started i started back a year and a half ago  
changed directions  
yeah  
how old are you  
oh okay  
all right  
yeah  
and uh i didn't really start getting into music until i went to college because uh my parents didn't really have music in the house  
put it that way  
yes  
so i'm always behind  
i'm i'm not i'm never really up to date on all that stuff  
but i know what i like when it's uh when i like a sound a certain kind of sound  
yeah  
uh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
oh well  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i do play the piano you know  
but uh i i like the uh early seventies late sixties rock   kind of stuff the old stuff  
and uh  
uh  

what kind of music is does what   songs does he play  
uh_huh  
i think i've heard summer of sixty nine  
yeah  
okay  
i'm not i'm not very good at remembering the uh   titles  
yeah  
but i can remember this the song  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
i don't watch t v much at all  
so  
no  
no  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
do you like uh like someone recent like enya  
have you ever head of her  
she's not rock  
but   she she's from ireland  
and uh she's gotten some uh she's been on like the top ten i guess or whatever  
she she did  
okay  
i i think we're started now  
uh do you want to go ahead and start  
well you like classical music  
uh i like classical music  
i like rock and roll  
i like country and western  
uh i i like all kinds  
i like i like different things about each one of them  
oh you don't like country  
the the kind of country i like is kind of the older country music   not the not the kind like kenny [rodgers] and stuff like that  
that's uh that's a little bit to uh  
it's such  
they're trying to make it too much of a [crossover] thing  
you know what i mean  
oh like like hank williams  
like the old hank williams  
even even hank   williams junior is real good stuff  
the kind that  
uh this stuff   makes you cry it sounds so sad  
i mean you  
yeah  
sometimes i do  
i mean not all the time  
yes  
and i   i i do too  
i also like jazz  
yeah  
you're you're about like i am then  
i i can't   watch m t v anymore  
i used to love m t v  
and i can i can barely watch anymore because uh they have this heavy metal stuff on there  
and and i can't even you know i can't like that  
and and i liked uh [aerosmith] and   led zepplin and uh   you know and uh jeez who else is there van halen  
now i like i like groups like that  
but when you get uh  
i i even like guns and roses some of their stuff  
but uh some of these groups now like slaughter  
some of them are just really rough  
so so you went to school then in  
i'm surprised you didn't go to to any parties or anything where they were playing a lot of music or stuff  
or  
okay  
oh i see  
are you married at all  
okay  
well how old are you  
okay  
so you you were out of you went to school for awhile and quit then went back  
oh okay  
oh i'm uh twenty eight  
i was born in sixty three  
i guess we're   the same age then  
oh  
were they religious  
uh i see  
i  
my parents were very musical  
my mother had   a piano   in the in the house  
my father likes uh country western music  
he's from uh west virginia  
so that's what he grew up listening to  
and he's always liked it  
and and you know he's probably about fifty three years old now  
so he grew up like in the late fifties  
and   you know when they had that the elvis [presley] music and stuff like that   and that kind of rock and roll  
so he likes that  
and my mom always liked that kind of stuff  
my mom likes like uh [doris] day you know  
she always had those these old [doris] day records and stuff like that though  
so you know i grew up listening to that stuff  
but uh i could see why you went uh you know i could see why you were kind of sheltered   i guess from from music  
oh okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
so do i  
do you like uh like van halen or anything like that  
or how about brian [adams]  
it it  
this love cuts like a knife   uh summer of sixty nine  
yeah  
he sings that  
he's he's from canada  
the titles and artists  
well do   do you watch music television m t v at all or v h one  
okay  
do do you get cable  
oh  
okay  
that's that's  
you have to get cable to get those stations anyhow  
but uh yeah  
i like to watch rock and roll videos and any kind of videos  
i like watching that kind of thing  
it's  
no  
i haven't heard her  
oh okay  
oh really  
so what kind of music you into  
the opera yeah it's right on track  
i like classical  
but i can't deal with opera at all  
and heavy metal uh it's noisy  
i'm into uh some industrial music that's a a bit even harder than that  
but it's it's got to have a point to it  
yeah  
what kind of progressive stuff  
uh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's a lot of people like saying that you know bands in that position you know sold out  
i think that's pretty much you know bull  
because r e m really hasn't changed  
if it's it's interesting  
they're producing uh similar music  
and it's good music  
but you know people have picked up on it  
that's good  
i'm impressed  
oh yeah  
uh but he picked the right songs  
and   and that that's about all he had going for him or still has for that matter  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i'm sure that that that sold a lot for him  
that's all you really need for a lot of lot of pop  
i'm i've kind of like developed a a short hatred for for pop  
it just seems like there's no no real point  
you hear the same same tune over and over again   in a thousand [guises]  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i can i can believe that  
what kind of things are you do you like in classical  
what's the   standard  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
it's safe  

well i have a uh pretty wide taste uh in music [ranging] from progressive rock to jazz to uh lot of different forms of uh music  
in fact it's easier for me to say uh the types of music that i don't like are opera and uh screaming heavy metal  
uh_huh  
oh i don't mind music that's difficult to listen to  
but uh the the uh basic point of heavy metal which seems to be music to annoy you   is uh gets a little annoying  
uh lot of stuff that actually has uh ended up becoming popular like uh [nirvana] and uh-oh you know  
i'm thirty  
so lot of the stuff i was listening to in my teens like the [clash] and and the sex pistols and   r e m that sort of stuff  
uh r e m makes me laugh because they've gone from a college radio progressive group to being uh you know ultra mainstream at this point  
and it's not really that they've changed their musical style so much as the stream changed  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it is  
uh for a while there music seemed to really popular music seemed to have uh not a lot of point to it  
i was really tired of uh the michael bolton  
michael bolton really got on my nerves because he   he was making all this money doing mediocre cover tunes  
and i could uh go down to a bar that's about three minutes from my house and hear people doing covers better than him not making nearly as much money  
i guess  
that and a marvelous [hairdo]  
uh_huh  
well it's interesting because you were you were saying that you liked classical music  
and i like a lot of classical music  
but i also dislike uh some classical music  
and what gets me even more is the attitude of people who are really into classical music   and feel that if if it's not seventy five years old it hasn't stood the test of time  
uh  
stuff that i like  
uh i like bach  
i tolerate vivaldi  
i can't   stand uh uh [debussy] or [debussy]  
uh uh i like [tchaikovsky]  
he can make a lot of noise when he's uh so inclined  
uh and some of some stuff that i like uh  
for instance frank [zappa] has done a fair amount of [orchestral] composition  
and that's interesting music  
but it would not get performed by any uh [municipally] funded uh [philharmonic]   uh just because number one it's frank [zappa] and he's weird number two isn't he still alive  
you know we're we're   much better off playing uh [beethoven's] ninth  
that's right you know  
we'll do we'll do the ninth  
and everyone will know it and   and hum it  
and it it just isn't chance taking enough for me  
uh i feel that uh that that music should take chances in one way or another and that uh you know if you've heard a piece oh a hundred a hundred times  
type of music is hot down in texas  
oh okay  
uh mostly folk music  
yeah  
i find myself uh listening to a lot of uh uh either old timer or new england uh dance bands as well as uh just more popular folk music and new artists coming up  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what about uh classic rock type stations  
oh okay  
so some   some of the older eagles stuff was good  
i i didn't like uh  
they started getting a little more you know  
the type of music at least to me it's uh sounds like it's only sounds good at a high volumes  
and i don't like listening at high volumes  
but uh some of their older stuff was uh you know quite enjoyable to me  
you know hotel california and that era  
yeah  
well down in texas uh you know little listen to a little country every now and then  
i'm sure there's a lot of that down there  
well there there's a [conway] [twitty] twang  
then there's the uh [dolly] [parton] uh hollywood sound  
yeah  
yeah  
i think some of them the artists are even uh hitting the pop [charts]  
hey  
i i i think most artists are in to make a few bucks  
but they're not in it to say anything or give a message   which is what they were  
late late sixties early seventies they were   they were definitely pushing a message  
yeah  
i i don't i don't think gun  
at least to my mind guns and roses doesn't have too much of a message too much to say  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's the artist not the merit  
yeah  
well i don't know  
i know for myself that uh for the most part i don't know which artist is which  
so i listen to a song  
i either like the song  
or i don't like it  
and then if i really like the song eventually i'll figure out who it was  
well you have to figure out what to buy  
or do you just buy along the same artist  
yeah  
yeah  
so you keep buying the same artists until you don't like an album then you stop  
yeah  
yeah  
see that's one thing i like about the uh some of the folk music scenes you know  
there's a couple of nice uh small coffee houses up in new jersey  
and it's very nice  
you go into the coffee house  
and you know an artist is there  
and very often the artist will have a an album  
and so if you like the artist you buy the album  
so you definitely get to try before you buy  
you know it  
you you you don't always quite get it right  
uh well i don't know exactly what's hot down in texas  
i know what's hot down here with me  
so that's about all i can feel apt to discuss with you since i just know  
i don't ever listen to the radio  
and that's usually what's hot around here  
so   so what kind of music do you like  
folk music  
uh_huh  
well we're on totally different [wavelengths]  
i'm more uh old rock and roll uh some new newer i guess you would call it heavy metal rock and roll type   you know uh van halen that kind of thing  
uh i don't listen to the radio at all  
we live in a fairly small town  
so   uh classic rock for me is what i have which is like uh doors eagles jimmy hendrix  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well they  
yeah  
yeah  
that does that's something you don't doesn't even sound good loud really you know  
you know definitely  
uh so anything new you like coming out now other than folk music some i might know of  
i don't know any folk music at all  
yeah  
oh yeah  
here  
oh plenty  
way way more than i can stand down here  
i i don't care for it at all that texas twang or whatever you want to call it  
i  
yeah  
yeah  
that's more even more commercialized for of   country music  
but uh it's getting uh uh getting pretty big everywhere as i see it  
garth brooks is [outselling] guns and roses  
so  
yeah  
it's it's kind of strange that it's getting as big as it is  
concert tours for country and western sings is it's it's quite quite odd  
but uh i don't know  
it's music is kind of going an odd direction nowadays i think  
it's becoming not necessarily good music just popular music you know  
yeah  
and that's all it  
yeah  
that's what it  
yeah  
that's what what you say  
and and then music is wrapped around now  
now it's the other way around  
no  
no  
they don't have anything really important you want to hear  
but you know it's kind of odd  
it's like it doesn't have to be good  
it's just who does it you know  
you hear a you hear a [paula] [abdul] song  
and you  
and i think if somebody else were to play that you know they wouldn't they nobody everybody would think that's lousy  
but because she did it it's supposed to be good you know  
it comes to the point where it's your name not what you do   more than anything  
madonna can do anything  
and it would be considered good because it's madonna you know  
madonna could start playing folk music  
and folk music would be huge just because madonna does it  
so   it's it's it's really backwards how things are working now  
but  
yeah  
exactly  
so i don't know i i don't know that that's i don't think that's a good thing at all  
but that's that's what the point we've reached  
so i don't know how   how much farther we can [digress] before we have to turn it around and go the other way at least  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's about how i am on popular music  
i don't you know you don't i don't know enough about it because i just listen  
uh everything i listen to is what i buy not whatever they play on the radio  
so  
uh i  
yeah  
i just mostly buy along the same lines all the time  
i don't really switch around to new things very often  
it's just it's you know it's way to hectic and too confusing  
uh  
yeah  
generally  
or about the only new music i hear is somebody else that i know   will buy something new that i haven't heard  
and i listen to it that way  
but as far as  
yeah  
i don't go out on a limb and buy something new very often unless i've heard it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's definitely  
i  
you like everything but jazz what don't you like about jazz
so you like do you like rhythm and blues
okay
i like country western
it's my favorite
yeah
willie [waylon] and the boys
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
do you like um any rock and roll at all
right
i can't stand that
yeah
yeah
yeah
some of my favorite groups are like chicago and uh-oh
some of the i guess what what you could call softer rock groups they were the bigger groups in the seventies
and until all the heavy metal
and all that came in and
yeah
i don't care for that at all
yeah
no
i got away from all that rock and roll stuff probably ten years ago
and just started listening to the country
yeah
i guess so
i like some classical some of that stuff grates on my nerves too
like you were saying earlier about the other
i just stir up
but there are some pieces that are really pretty
right
commercials and cartoons
and things like that
uh_huh
try and give it to us subliminal way
that's right
i think so
there we go
yeah
um i like um a lot of different things
so
um i'm into got a big record collection
and uh mostly rock
but i got some folk and some jazz
yeah
okay
that's uh
that covers a pretty wide range right there
yeah
um well yeah
i mean you can get c d's of the sex pistols which um i think kind of defeats i mean somebody's missing the point
well i have um i i don't know what the exact count is
but i know it is like eight hundred to nine hundred
albums and um yeah
i i got a c d player about four or five years ago
and i've been buying c d's but um you know i'm not trying to i'm not trying to go l p to c d because well for a couple of reasons one is i can't afford it
and um the other is some of the stuff that um i've got a
and i'll never find on c d it'll never be [reissued] and and there's a bunch of stuff that i really really don't care if i have it on c d
oh you're you're a big bowie fan
or
yeah
i was just kind of
well styles change
and you get it's like oh dave [bowie's] not weird anymore i'll get uh
he married a model
i didn't know that
um i haven't been i been uh i got to pay um
no
man
you know just got the new issue of rolling stone and they didn't mention it
so it seems so odd to me that david bowie is showing up in people magazine it's like wait a minute
i mean you know it's like uh okay new kids on the block alright
these are you know these aren't serious people anyway
but bowie i mean i'm not i'm not a huge bowie fan
but i like his music
actually the the [coolest] bowie thing that one of the [coolest] things i have happens to be a bowie item it's a um um it's a picture disk with uh of him and bing crosby doing peace on earth uh little drummer boy
and you know you can get this as a forty five
but this is like a twelve inch with um the um the label is instead of being a real label is a picture of him and bing from the uh from the christmas special that it was from
it's it's a trip um
yeah
you can get uh you know if you can actually buy the forty five it's usually out around christmas time because it's it's it's a really neat song actually and they they do a good [duet] um but it's it's always the thing that's like oh you know you know when i got people over and we're trying to you know you know you know [weirding] people out on music that one usually gets them
um
uh_huh
yeah
huh
uh_huh
well i know the feeling when i've gone
um and just knocked myself out um i'm a big who fan
and i've gone and knocked myself out sometimes finding old who forty fives with like these b sides that never got put on an album
you know i was knocking you know i found these a bunch of them you know didn't spend a whole lot of money on them
um
yeah
yeah
it was a big thing
well i got i have a friend who's like the forty five king of the world he has something along the lines of fifteen thousand forty fives he has every top forty single since he was born nineteen you know like nineteen sixty four
and i think every top twenty single going back to around fifty five
i think he's cut it out lately because most of the stuff you know he can only get as cassette single and he you know we both despise cassette singles um but he's found some of the who stuff for me you know
we went you know all all this trouble to find this
and then they released a couple who rarity albums that had like half the stuff on it
it's like great
you know and then the one other
i think the one other who thing he located for me was um uh i don't know if you're familiar with the who they they have a song called substitute doesn't ring a bell
oh okay
okay
anyway um there was a um a single of substitute okay
now you know what i'm talking about yeah
um anyway it came out in the mid sixties in in this country on a weird on a record label that they aren't normally on
so it was cool they find it for that
but the b side was something called [waltz] for a pig which wasn't on any record and it wasn't on the rarity records so this was a big deal
and then um you know once once steve found it for me
and everything
i i happened to go and look at some like who biographies
i have
and uh i discovered that the b side isn't actually by the who it's by what's called the who orchestra because there was some like legal thing that said the who couldn't record and so it was actually by the by a band called the grand bond organization
so it's like gee all this trouble
and it's not even the who oh well it's a fun thing to have anyway
but it turns out that um uh you know listening to the the version of substitute on the single it's actually different than than um the one that was normally in the u s because um uh there was some lyrics they found [objectionable] i think the one uh i look all white
but my dad was black
um the american record companies said [nah] you know you can't release this
so they
it has a different [lyric] on it
so that's kind of neat
but yeah
well um you know i have um you know like you were saying you know i've got i have a lot a lot of [bootlegs] and stuff
by the who
and uh by pete townsend
and uh some of the really fun stuff with townsend is um one of the demos i have is called obscure and [oblique] and it's it's a bunch of demos
and i you know i'm really curious actually how they got their hands on this stuff
but um it's really cool listening to the stuff because um you hear things that are different than the way the who actually recorded the song or or he recorded the song solo and it's just kind of interesting to see his um you know
yeah
there's um he's also put out a couple albums called scoop scoop and another scoop which um are collections of demos
so i have like three collections of demos of his and there's a couple songs in the collections that are the almost the same as songs the who did on their last album but aren't
so that's that's really cool
i mean there's this one song called popular that became the song it's hard with um a different [verse] so
yeah
well
uh_huh
oh
but you got a good one though
yeah
i'm like that a lot with the who i've got i i counted it up sometime
and i have like twelve versions of [pinball] [wizard] by you know
either by the who or it's a demo or it's a live version by the who
and then there's like the elton john version and then um i guess the the the weirdest ones i have are ones by the new seekers you know the guys that did i'd like to teach the world to sing
and uh the other one is uh rod stewart of all people
uh_huh
i don't know it's it's hard for me to listen to it in true light anymore
since i've heard it so many times
um i mean i i mean i want to throw up
usually when i hear it anymore
i um
well the the problem with the problem with [pinball] [wizard] is that it's you you hear it on the radio
and it's completely out of context with because it it it's part of a larger work
and um so i don't know
i mean i
oh i like to listen to music i just am not a very educated person when it comes to music
what do you like to listen to
okay
oh i'm sure
well i'm not originally from austin
i'm from minnesota
so it took me moving to texas to start liking country music
and now i really do
i'm i'm really becoming [texanized] i haven't
but i watch it on i watch it on um television sometimes
and and uh i've taken country western dance lessons
oh yeah
i love it
i absolutely love it
and uh-oh
yes
i definitely am am much more into country
um so you you which uh singers do you like
i mean i can actually name singers i'm i'm not too bad
george [strait] so you know him from
well that's great
wow
well who are you going to go see now i mean who do you see now that's going to be somebody someday
oh
oh
alan jackson um
well okay well maybe it just has changed
and maybe
it's more accepted all over
right
and then you you know you kind of think of alabama
you know that kind of brought everyone into a more country
and and you know
yeah
kenny kenny rogers he's kind of country and kind of rock you know
had to listen to that one again
oh
uh_huh
you you pump up the volume yeah
from new jersey
yeah
that's great
that's like about the farthest call from country music
you can get oh
oh that's great
where do you work
oh that's super
so you can do things like that
yeah
i'm i'm i'm being envious
one thing that i did in music that i mean was a big [extravagance] for me
but i have two daughters that are eleven and fourteen
and [whitney] houston just came to town
and she was coming to town the same day that my daughter was getting her braces off
so i and i really like her
so i thought well we'll we'll go buy tickets and this is how we'll celebrate getting braces off teeth
and she really
she really
i i wouldn't say it was the a great concert
not that i've had that many
but i know it wasn't a great concert you know
but it wasn't a bad one either
and the one thing that i really appreciated in going to hear her sing in person is
her extreme volume for that tiny little body
you know
and she really does have to work to get it all out
and you'd you wouldn't catch that you know off of a a c d or a cassette you know
i did not
no
yes
i know i know so that that was really really fun
uh_huh
yeah
that was just last week
uh_huh
so we had a good time
i'm not
i know eagles uh_huh
wow
well you know now that you mention it
i probably would know you know know
a song of his
oh yes
i well they're you know they know everything and then they always ask me if i know
sport figures too
so i'm a real [flunky] oh so they kind of
i know i know
it is it's it's sad when you reach that age
but you're not doing bad
i have a a good friend that
i mean she's much older than i am she's i think probably fifty eight and she's really up on all the new music
even better than i am
and and i mean she just likes music
and she's just a person that's really with it
so maybe you'll be like she is
right
right
and it really gets bad
when you can remember what you
oh i remember
that's right
oh
and we're we're just getting to that age where we date ourselves all over the place
did he really like beatles
uh_huh
you're picking up some new stuff
well i play piano and organ and have since i was a child
and i sing in church choir and have done that since i was a child and still sing now
and uh i played cello in high school and college and occasionally play as an adult
but i don't have a cello
and i rarely ever practice so it's like adult groups that i teach school adult groups at school or something when they are in dire need of somebody
so i still pick it up occasionally
but uh my son is a music major he's uh in performing french horn he was an all state french horn player all through high school
so there's a lot of music in our family
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you do anything with music nowadays
no
you you buy it and listen to it huh
uh_huh
i do too
i don't really care that much for rap the only thing i i've liked with rap is when the kids at school uh will take information
and they'll learn it by making a rap out of it
and then i think it's useful otherwise i don't have any use for it
uh_huh
uh_huh
i understand
uh_huh
they seem to like it
well my [eldest] son took piano for oh about four years and lost interest
but he learned enough that he can still sit down and play and enjoys doing that
and has a keyboard
and then my daughter uh took piano for a while she also played [bassoon] and then she has taken dance
well she took dance from the time she was about five on up through first part of college
and she got so involved in dance
and that sort of thing that she let the instruments kind of slide behind
and but yet
she still enjoys uh music and still enjoys dance
and you know for exercise she wants aerobics to music and that you know that kind of thing
well they do have quite a bit of musical ability which is is nice
uh we do enjoy the music and uh like however uh with the kids going through college and we have two in college right now
they are the ones that have the stereo we we don't seem to much stereo one of these days we will
the only ones that i ever had were actually through the church where they had uh a voice teacher uh offer lessons at sort of at a discount you might say
for members of the choir who were interested
so i did that a couple of times
but as far as as any other training no
i just it was uh what i learned through singing in choirs and um my other music piano
and the organ and the cello
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well there has to be some talent there there has to be some voice
something to work with
right
i mean you can only overcome so much
but there are tricks to make
okay
oh i would have liked that
oh i bet it was huh
well um was it a lot of his old songs
or
uh_huh
oh does he
oh huh
i would have really liked that
yeah
oh did he
oh uh_huh
oh well i have seen him before
but yeah
it's been years ago
it's been years ago i saw him in las vegas once
yeah
long long time ago
but um yeah
we just we went to a kenny [loggin's] concert
well he's he's rock
but um
yeah
he is really more rock than country
uh_huh um
well he he sings [footloose] from the movie
do you you know [footloose] that song
yeah
he sang that
yeah
but um
and that was good
it was loud though
it was in a real small theater
in salt lake
and it was very loud
oh
oh yeah
oh
i don't enjoy it that loud
uh_huh
huh well do you like the instrumentalists like have you ever heard fresh [aire] um well [manaheim] steam roller oh uh_huh
they're
well they're it's all they're instrumental
and um
yeah
but they're real good
they i know they were here in salt lake
we didn't make it
they're here this december
but we didn't make it to that
i tend to like the more mellow my husband likes uh harder loud
but
well i'm starting to sound like my mom
i remember her telling us turn that off
i can't stand that
it's like i'm like that with my husband now turn that down
oh yeah
i don't even know what uh i i have younger kids
so i don't know they talk about these groups nowadays
and i don't even know who they're talking about
are your kids all grown
oh
uh_huh
yeah
well i know they talk about um all these [rappers] now
do you like the rap
yeah
some of it's kind of fun
but it's different
oh well have you seen any others
or
uh_huh
oh that's nice
uh_huh
oh did you go with your cousin then
did you go with your cousin then
oh oh
uh_huh
oh
oh
well good
oh did you
oh
oh it's quite quite big huh
quite large huh
oh well
yeah
oh they do usually
huh
oh did you
uh well i basically listen to uh all kinds of music
uh easy you know from easy listening you know i just find that so relaxing uh you know like fall asleep to that uh
i listen to uh i listen to rock
but the only thing the only thing i don't like uh is uh hard rock you like
you don't
like uh my boyfriend listens to guns and roses
and i just you know i just can't uh grasp that you know i just don't understand why he likes that uh
i listen to the lyrics and i don't know
yeah
and you you right
and you listen to the lyrics and uh and and uh he even went to their concert
and i'm like uh i don't know this person
he
no
they
yeah
they made them they made them wait forever
and yeah
uh_huh
tell you that just scares me uh
because he's he's not really like that
i mean he doesn't
and he he's not wild or anything
but i just i don't know
oh you're a
you're a pretty
cool mom then
my mom would would have never gone for that
uh_huh
my mom would have probably ripped the radio off the out of the stereo if i'd have turned it on
uh_huh
okay
what what is that the summer musicals i've heard of it
but i don't know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
what what uh what uh what year was all that popular
is it was it in the sixties
that it was that that uh what did you say [hammerstein] fifties
uh_huh
um
so it was just concerts or did they did they uh
oh they acted out the scene
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sounds really different
you know from what we've got
do you listen to country
really
i'm a i'm a clint black fan
i don't
yeah
he's okay
he
um she's okay
uh_huh
have you gone to uh [garth's] concert
i heard it's kind of
did they did at a tell you that he swung from a rope like [tarzan] like [tarzan] he he he swung through the audience like on a
yeah
i think
yeah
oh
what else i like [cher] she's an old you know she's kind of old
singer
she's been around a while
oh well
well mostly rock
yeah
what about you
well i like well i like different you know different things
but uh primarily you know rock and roll
oh you know
well you
i i really like more the modern stuff you know
but i like the oldies
you know they're okay
uh yeah
i listen mostly to the you know the modern stations
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
see now i don't like country and western
uh
i don't like you know most of it
i don't like but i recently saw that garth brooks show
and i thought he was terrific
and i really thought i mean i thought he was a great you know really wonderful [entertainer] the way he um he you know he was very good
i don't like twangy no
i don't
oh he's really not that uh country
i mean
i've heard him sing stuff that really doesn't sound too
you know
i don't know
yeah
yeah
right
i yeah i have heard him
and uh i didn't think he was a country singer you know i
yeah
uh_huh
oh well
yeah
that's true
oh really
oh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
you know
well i said let me watch this and see what all the fuss is about
i mean everybody's [raving] about this guy you know
and my son
i have a son he's uh twenty four and of course he hates country music
and he said ma i can't believe you're going to watch that
i said i have to find out my best friend said she likes him
i said if linda likes him
i said he not he couldn't be all wrong you know
i mean he's there's got to be something good about the guy
so i watched it
and really i i just thought he was terrific
i don't know
but i mean and his songs uh uh were you know i liked them
uh they weren't they weren't that silly country western stuff that you know they used to do years ago
you know with with [dopey] lyrics you know very simple lyrics you know there's
yeah
oh there are but uh yeah
i think as a whole
it's gotten more definitely more sophisticated in the you know in the past few years
you know
but then i wouldn't you know listen to it uh you know steadily uh you know i wouldn't listen to it at all
actually
you know i just don't really care for it any you know as a whole but uh
i usually listen to either the uh classic rock it's uh ninety two or or uh one oh two
yeah
and then my husband loves the oldies
you know every time he he gets in the the car he sticks on the oldies station
yeah
hi
[brigette] i'm jackie
it's nice to meet you
are you
um well where are you from
and what's where's that
oh i'm from wisconsin kenosha
yeah
i'm not very familiar with texas
yeah
i'm far
yeah
i i live in kenosha wisconsin
yeah
i i've gotten a lot of people from texas
and they always think wow wisconsin
uh_huh
okay
okay
all right
well what kind of music do you like
oh yeah
is that really popular in texas
or is that just like a stereotype because it's the south
is it
oh
um well i used to not really like country that much
but i think well my dad really likes it
and i'm used to listening to that
and the older i got the more i you know i i can listen to it
but um i prefer um um groups like i like um fire house
and slaughter
and um the um the [scorpions] yeah
yeah
but i also like the top forty too
and i really like the oldies station like um fifties music
yeah
and and um the doors are pretty good too
i can listen to them
and the who i i really like all kinds
um no
that's about the only kind i don't get into is like rap
and like classical
and um
jazz is all right
but um like the blues and stuff like that
i i like to dance
and if it's like a upbeat you know good song then then i'll listen to it
and if i'm out you know dancing then makes it better to listen to
yeah
um there's this station called the [blaze] from chicago and that's my favorite
yeah
they play um all different kinds of um harder rock
uh_huh
oh i've been there
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
um
oh yeah
oh that's neat
uh_huh
me too
yeah
um
oh really
we get a lot like at the bars because um we have a lot of like bands that form by themselves
like at from milwaukee and chicago
trying to get started you know
oh really
i think a lot of music has to do with like you know the type of people you hang around with
and especially your environment like you know the [settings] like the bigger cities you get
more variety
i think you know
oh yeah
um i've gotten to like um a couple of songs from garth brooks
yeah
i i just um heard of him
this year my boyfriend uh he uh likes some types of country music and he was listening to that
and
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i i've liked most the songs
i heard
so that was good
yeah
same here
oh yeah
uh i just started um listening to it too because of my boyfriend but yeah
after i heard it a while
at first i didn't like it
and then i heard it and then i'm like oh this isn't so bad you know it's you know upbeat and you know i got into it
and i saw on t v one time
um they were playing garth brooks
and they were um showing how to country dance to it
and it looked so fun because like i say i like to dance
and it was just really neat
yeah
it it looked fun
and like oh i want to learn now
oh yeah
uh it it varies it's totally dependent upon what mood
i'm in
it can be anything from classical to uh uh rock and roll
no
not hard rock
i'm i'm talking like elton john
or
uh steve [winwood] or something like that
uh usually the the album sounds better than the concert
and i don't like fighting the crowds
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
come to think of it
i saw the four tops uh about three years ago
yeah
it it was a lot of fun
it was
yeah
that that that's is something i i'd rather it's one of those things where i have a very stressful day at work
and then i'll get home and let's uh pick pick out a something on the symphony something that will really relax me
and uh that that's where that is
and the one thing uh i guess it's opera is the only kind of music that i i i don't care for
and uh traditional country and western which i find offensive yeah
like i like i said
it depends upon the mood that i'm in uh
i i prefer instrumental over over
anything but what i don't like is listening to a a station that will play uh i guess it's elevator music where they they have people that have have redone the song
it's it if if if i'm going to listen to something like white christmas
i want to hear bing crosby sing it
i don't want to hear somebody else sing it
uh i'm i'm a firm believer in the person who made the song popular that's who i want to listen to
regardless of how good
the remake is
or how good they think the remake is
yes
that that that's really good
i enjoy that uh
and that's where
very rarely live recordings of uh symphony music is good where they they have to get everyone in the studio to do it right
depending upon which hall they're in cause i've listened to some uh albums or c d where the live recording they did it in a an auditorium or hall that was horrible acoustics
and it just kind of washed out the very highs and the very lows and you had this what sounded like mud music
it was like why bother
uh_huh
oh boy
uh_huh
uh christmas concerts are a lot of fun
well with my voice i'm glad that they drown me out
i can't i can't uh sing worth a darn
yes
i in when i was in college i got a minor in a music composition with uh heading toward piano
oh by all means various types uh my tastes range from rock and roll to classical
in fact about the only type of music that i really find offensive would be uh country western
yeah
i take that back rap
but i consider rap music to be an [oxymoron] yeah
yes
i do i play two a bass guitar and [kalimba] i used to play three which was the clarinet
but i've that's since gone into [disuse] yeah
well there was [rockabilly] in the fifties
and that's what gave rise to like carl perkins uh jerry lee lewis uh elvis [presley] in the beginning
and that type of music i do appreciate it had some
it had it had the spark of creativity it was it was out there
and uh since then it's sort of fallen into formula
and i guess that's my thing is i have a problem with formula music
huh
well i've only been exposed to that [minimally] and that's usually through occasional you know [viewings] of concerts of said type on public television
you know
oh it was something i had basically for background it was not uh [obtrusive] it was something i could listen to
and uh and do my chores around the house
oh yes
it's not completely offensive yeah
uh_huh
yeah
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh that that that's cute
i would have liked to have heard that
oh
yeah
had to have some beer too
or some sort of alcoholic substance
new age yes
huh
yeah
it's like the [windham] hill stuff
it's it's
yeah
it's uh new age classical so to speak
well what i what i often uh call air pudding
yeah
yeah
well i only use it when i'm studying
and that's the extent of it
it's just it's good background filter stuff
and you know what it is it's pleasant
but it's not talent in in my view
it's not genius uh when i really wish to get into listening pleasure uh with something of that nature i put on mozart or beethoven something that will [evoke] a response something that almost reaches in and hits those [proverbial] heart strings
uh yeah
um not really not really
i've uh
i uh i'm forty years old now
so i've
yeah
we uh we grew up with the same music
and i just uh i heard what they call around here they have a thing they call uh-oh
what are they uh it's a [spoof] on the song and the song was um you you've heard of the song dance to the music you remember that
okay
well they did a uh a uh twisted tune they call it
and the twisted tune was rap isn't music
and they they sang here rap isn't music
to the tune of you know dance to the music
it was pretty funny
yeah
that's true
that's true
now if you can just uh make a [rhyme] and sometimes not even a good one
you know you
and you don't even need a band because you can just use that uh crazy little radio to keep time for you
oh god
yes
i i mean i i can tolerate a lot of different things
and i can you know i can tolerate a certain amount of rap
but if i have to listen to two songs in a row
i'm ready to shoot somebody
yeah
that that must be it
um my i get a real kick out of the uh these remakes of the old songs that we grew up with
yeah
it makes you think that all the uh singer song writers are running out of you know things to write about
uh_huh
run d
it'll never be elevator music
let's put it that way
yeah
i know
and you you'll you'll never hear it in the uh the restaurants
and the yeah
i've i've found that as i've gotten older that that some of even the hard rock has started to to bother me
and it
uh no no
no
from this new
uh_huh
yeah
me either
yeah
but it's fun to prove your age um i i get the biggest kick out of my i have two fourteen year olds and a twelve year old living at home
and uh they hear one of these old remakes of a song and oh that's just a beautiful song
and i'm like that's a remake they that [song's] twenty years old
oh no
it just came out
that's called music
well we've got uh four cases of albums downstairs and then we've got another case
oh yes
we do
we've got some songs that will totally blow my children away
uh we've the problem we've been having is that we have a uh an old fisher system and can't find a needle for it you know because they're not pressing yeah
horse and [buggy] yeah
so i'm hoping that we can locate one soon
and once i do locate a source i'm going to buy about twelve of them
um i've heard of it
uh_huh
great
i'll try that out
i really uh
i really do want to dig out the old l p
yeah
because i've got everything from god back when i've got all of bill [cosby's] original comedy albums
and i've even got old silver throat that's the one album that he sang on
yeah
he's horrible singer
i listened to it one time that was it
and i've i've got stuff
uh
all right
yeah
i know
well it's been nice talking to you too
that that must have been wonderful were you able to hear
sometimes
oh
oh
well uh actually that lead into a couple different things uh my dad worked with unions uh for placing so he could really relate to what you were saying
but uh my dad enjoyed opera and classical music
and [ballets] and so uh even as a child
i got to go to a lot of different uh kinds of musical events
uh i grew up in detroit
and so we had opportunities for a wide range of things uh one of the [regrets] i have is that i grew up with a house filled with classical music and music that i really loved but i never took the time to find out uh who the composers were
or it it was just always there and there were certain things that uh i liked so much
but i still have trouble to this day
sometimes i will recognize a passage
but i'll have no idea what it's from
or whose it is
and uh over the last few years
and when my father lived with us
uh i made more of an effort to learn
but uh that's something that i regretted but uh when you mentioned the band music
my son just started high school this year
and has been in band since middle school
but this was the first year with marching band and i really enjoy band music uh it
oh what instrument
did you play
oh i like that a lot
oh
yeah
what uh my husband tim played a trombone in high school and he also played in a a band in college not marching band
but [symphonic] and that was really the first time that i got to hear a lot of uh uh band music and some of the wonderful composers other than the traditional [sousa] and things that everybody knows
and so i've enjoyed this
so much with our son
now doing that
and he plays tuba so i don't
don't get to see him when he's doing uh concerts we just see the top of the bell at the back
but in marching season
he's easy to pick out
yes uh
we uh laughed when they're in sixth grade
and they try them out on instruments and try to find the appropriate instruments we thought of suggesting that they ought to also find out what vehicles the parents drive because uh the tuba and the [sousaphone] don't fit in in every kind of uh
car
oh
oh
oh gosh
god
yeah
well he must have collected that over a period of years
uh_huh
i was going to ask you
and it seemed that there must have been a big gap uh i also have a brother who's thirteen years older and one who's nineteen years older you don't run into that very often
uh_huh
yeah
oh i'm glad you got to go and hear him in new york that that uh that must have been very special
so what kind of music do you like
yeah
uh_huh
and where do you live
okay
i'm from pennsylvania
right
exactly
okay
uh well i like a lot of folk music and jazz and different sorts of experimental music
uh yeah
some stuff that you could call
new age
let's see i like uh cherry [riley] a lot
and okay
uh let's see
well who do you like from that category
yeah
say
new wave
or
okay
well who do you like like that
i mean
uh_huh
okay
yeah
i'm not i'm not that crazy about the bow house uh i liked
joy division a lot
and
oh maybe
right
uh_huh
oh how horrible
how can you live like that
uh right
uh let's see
and
uh_huh
right
okay
uh_huh
yeah
i i think right least the [jacksons] i can agree with you
uh yeah
you like stuff like prince and his what
okay
let's see
yeah
i think i heard that
once i like what i've heard of the new album
his uh
like what
uh_huh
yeah
well that's very good
have you heard uh dirty mind
oh that's a
that's a fantastic album
it's even earlier
it's one of those where he's playing all the instruments
and it's actually pretty brilliant
a lot of it's uh like the dirty side of his stuff
but that's all right too
uh_huh
right
well
yeah
well i think that kind of happens for a lot of artists i mean you could say the same sort of thing about elvis or jerry lee lewis or something
or
well jimmy [swaggart] he's in
he's a singer
right uh
and no
it seems that a lot of people a lot of christians seem to sort of walk the line
between uh you know total [depravity] and you know and religion and [asceticism] you know
what
i'm twenty uh uh six
yeah
uh-oh
well
uh
acoustics
right
okay
yeah
no
i'm in engineering
basically
but i'm very interested in music
anyway i play some stuff and i'm a radio d j and blah blah blah uh well just i worked for a radio station as an undergraduate
just the college radio station
and had had to [gosham] college
which is in indiana
and i found it to be a very good experience
i mean besides having access to millions of records
i liked being able to control the [airwaves] you know
and so now i'm just working for the campus radio station
at penn state where i am
okay
well wendy what kind of music do you like
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh a lot the same
i don't like hard rock at all
and i uh don't like uh rap either
i don't care too much for jazz
sometimes i do a few things i have heard that i like
but
okay
and uh i like classical
and i like uh a lot of different kinds of contemporary uh [folksy] type where you can hear the words and uh you know where there are some things they are saying i guess my preference is uh well either classical or christian contemporary praise type songs
uh i don't have a particular favorite
i uh i like some of the music that is put out by [josannah] uh integrity tapes they are instrumental mostly
where they just have uh praise songs such as just instruments
or uh praise songs with words uh uh there is a few things i don't pay too much attention
i turn the radio on
and i don't always pay attention to who is singing what i just know there is a song here and a song there
i like i don't spend a lot of money buying tapes and
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i do too
have your ever heard of john michael [talbot] i guess i
he is one that at least i know you know if i hear his name that i will probably like it
he is just real quiet reflective i think he did the companies himself on the guitar and i uh classical guitar
i really like classical guitar
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
have you ever heard of a [venezuelan] he is local but he has cut a couple of albums now or whatever you call them these days c d
i guess
uh [carlos] [guetison] yeah
yeah
he is on the [oasis] and uh i have heard him play locally
yeah
he plays some times at la [madeline] and uh there is a couple of other places that he is regular at
and uh yeah
i really enjoy him
but i don't know
do do you would you consider that rap music
yeah
uh_huh
i am sure the influence is there
yeah
okay
i think so
so it was good talking to you
well being from texas
i love country music that's
you do uh
oh absolutely
do they really
well you you don't sound like uh
from new york
oh my
well someone called me the other day from uh new jersey
and that was whoa
huh
i see
uh do many people listen to country music
uh_huh
yes
yes
i don't particularly care for that
yeah
uh_huh
right
well country music is not that sad
kind of cry in your beer you know the expression kind of music
it's got a a lot better uplifting beat now
and it sounds better
and i think more people all generations like it a lot better
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
definitely
well i think that's gosh
that is about the only thing that i listen to
i'm originally from tennessee
and of course that's a big country music place too
and that's all i heard growing up
so uh you know that's that's golly that's big and popular
yeah
crying loving or leaving
that's it
and on the radio
that's how they they have a little segment crying loving and leaving if you think about it every song is like that just like you're saying
well uh i can i can i don't uh we don't smoke
so we really don't go to bars or anything
but but uh used to you know back in the single days uh but yeah
i can
how about you
oh
for sure
that is true
that is absolutely true
or you're going to make a fool out of yourself or trip over somebody's feet
uh you know i really i like like uh the seventies music and uh oldies music fifties sixties that type of music uh i run
and i like to run just various music either either like seventies music or country or uh or the oldies
oh absolutely
yeah
and uh you know i that's what i have gotten away from is what like the top forty stuff is i don't i couldn't hardly i couldn't tell you
right now what the top one or two songs are
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
absolutely [foreigner] and [santana] and all that
in fact i was listening to that on my way home today
but uh i i enjoy that type of music
oh guns and roses
now i have heard of them
oh yeah
the who
it is old
isn't that funny
but it does
yeah
it's kind of like making a comeback it's just [cyclable] and just kind of making a comeback now i guess
and that's what they enjoy hearing which that's funny
cause i was let's see you were born in fifty i was born in fifty nine
so you know when i was in high school
that's some of this kind of music was popular
and that's what i like to hear right now even
uh well i was in band in high school and i played clarinet then i took piano lessons
yes
i do uh_huh
and i like jazz that kind do you
do you
oh well that's good
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
um
yeah
oh yeah
is that k v i l or
yeah
huh well i grew up around here
i grew up in fort worth
and uh it's funny because k v i l back when i was uh a teenager was an a m station
i think
yeah
and uh it used to have like the top twenty top forty all the time
you know
and i course i was listening to rock music
but what i called rock music when i was a teenager
now the music is so different than what i used to listen to that
i don't know if i could consider it the same
but
yeah
yeah
right
right
yeah
yeah
well my husband and i are both that way we we both really like the beatles a lot
oh really
that's funny
well i'm probably older than you then
but i uh i always thought the beatles were great
oh
oh that's funny
oh
yeah
yeah
see i liked elvis a lot
and he was like my hero
and now my little girl thinks it's real funny
because uh she'll see him she'll go oh you mean you really thought he was neat
um
yeah
yeah
well that's good
i like willie nelson too
yeah
well see i
the reason i said my taste was probably different is i have always liked country music
and my husband has always been just total rock
and so uh we never could agree on what we were going to listen to after we got married
because i'd want to hear country
and he'd want to hear rock and we couldn't get along because his rock was too rock for me
i like soft rock
but i don't like some of the heavy metal stuff
he was listening to
and um so both of us
we're real strong members of a church and uh we decided we'd start listening to contemporary christian music
so we started listening to one of the stations around here that we both really like it plays just christian music all the time
and we've gotten now where that's pretty much all we listen to
and uh there're some really really talented artists that's
you know song writers and singers that do just christian music
so of course you know amy grant
and people like that
are pretty well known there's a guy named bruce [carroll] and he's my favorite because he has a country sound
but it's christian lyrics and he's a wonderful song writer
he won a an an is it [emmy] or what does it
grammy it's the grammy awards
they give for music
yeah
he won a grammy for [inspirational] song of the year last year
so
yeah
yeah
well that's neat
oh sandy patty yeah
well that's pretty neat
well see i'm excited that kids these days are liking decent music and uh i mean all the songs of course on on this station have real good good lyrics and good ideas
that kind of thing
so i really encourage my daughter to listen to that
she right now
she loves it
i don't know
if it'll stick with her
she's still young in elementary school
so
yeah
well that's that's good that she still chooses that
but you know i like the country sound there are i like willie nelson i always like don williams
my dad thought i was crazy
but he's always been one of my favorites
and um then my husband on the other hand he
i guess when he was like in his early twenties really got into the heavy metal kind of stuff
before we got married
so then he'd want to play that stuff
and i was like
oh that's giving me a headache
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i still whenever they um have these advertisements on t v for um records that have like all the songs from the seventies
i was in high school like from the early seventies
and uh so all that music brings back a lot of memories you know
and i'm always thinking oh i'd like to have one of those albums
but since we made this agreement that we're going to listen to christian music
i think i will i'll probably set it on the shelf
and would never you know play it
yeah
that's right
we buy things that we know the whole family can listen to
uh_huh
oh that's neat
uh_huh
oh that's good
yeah
yeah
well see i'm an interesting person because i go to the church of christ
and there's a lot of people
at church of christ that think uh
that's right
and and i think my personal opinion is they're missing out on a lot
and i love um this you know that k l t y that's what i listen to all the time
and i i love all the music that they play on there
but i have a lot of people that go to church with me that kind of criticize that and think that uh it's wrong
and all this
so uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i told my husband the one thing i like about it is uh you know you kind of think about whatever you listen to
i mean you may just you may not realize you're doing it
but you do
and uh when i listen to christian music then i'm i'm thinking about something good you know
and i'll be washing dishes or something
and i'll think about a song and it'll bring back you know some ideas and so to me it's just a good influence
but there's still a whole lot of other music i you know really enjoy listening to my husband and i both kind of really got into
i'm pretty diverse actually um
i consider myself as a performer
and also an [enjoyer] so i kind of get into all all types i run the gamut from uh alternative to uh to rock and roll to heavy metal to you name it
so i'm pretty open on that
country's not bad
i grew up in nebraska
so it's like um yeah
i listen to it once in a while
but it's it's probably not
my my top mode
i guess that's pretty pretty popular down in plano though uh
oh yeah
or you didn't do anything at all right
uh_huh
are you into the garth brooks thing at all
or is that popular down there right now
i know that he's kind of a big name right now
yeah
and you're also into the christian contemporary stuff
yeah
i had a i had a roommate that was really into that he was into all the um groups like uh i'm trying to remember d m z [resurrection] band uh who else
there are a couple of other ones he was into he was into [petra] as well
in fact it's interesting
he's he's actually an engineer
i don't know the school in florida
and he's an engineer that does sound mixing right now for christian brown
yeah
he's pretty into it
it's been lucrative for him
well yeah um kind of like
i don't know in the early seventies
i think it was called punk rock
now it's kind of taken a different slant
and i think it's it's gone more diverse toward um not so much the head [banging] on the wall stuff as much as just runs really a wider more eclectic uh tone flow and things like that
so it's i don't know
i like i said i consider myself fairly diverse
so um
yeah
yeah
well i play the trumpet um
and also keyboards i played keyboards for about uh-oh
i don't know twelve thirteen years
and played trumpet for about ten so it's it's good for a side diversion and a little bit of side income you know
whenever i can do you do you play anything at all
yeah
oh wow
sure
sure
free time is not much of a luxury
i know that feeling
that may be more quality you know after all
yeah
joe scruggs huh
interesting
when you said scruggs i was thinking because earl scruggs is a real famous [banjo] player a real famous blue grass player
and uh in fact if you remember the the theme from the beverly [hillbillies] he actually played part of that
he and [lester] flats so i was thinking wow
wonder if this is a relative
but
oh
yeah
i don't hear much about that
no
yeah
yeah
kids probably get into that quite a bit
i'm uh i'm not quite at that point in my life yet
it'll probably be a while before i
get into the kids' music at all
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
well it's yeah it's hard to tell i know like in the appalachian mountain area there that thing's real popular
great
uh i like uh probably cutting edge rock would be the best way to describe it
good deal
cutting edge rock oh i don't know you got your top forty rock which i just can't stand top forty music
the stuff you'd see on m t v and v h one and what have you
and then there's new music come from we've got a radio station down here that uh started broadcasting about a year ago
and they've uh they play music that you just wouldn't hear on any other radio station more like a it's more like a college station
would play which we don't have down here
but uh it's just music by different groups
and you know things you wouldn't you wouldn't uh you wouldn't would never be exposed to
yeah
most of it
yeah
kind of noise
noise
yeah
yeah
do i go out to listen to music
well i go to school and work
so i don't get too too many opportunities to uh go out and see a a live band
although occasionally
i'll go downtown they have what they call deep [ellum] down here where a lot of local bands play
and i've gone down there a few times
no
i'm [musically] destitute
have no talents right
yeah
yeah
i used to go
i when i first moved to dallas several years ago
i've gone to a few concerts but it just it just gets to be more of a hassle than it's worth
yeah
and you get a lot of thirteen and fourteen year olds
and it's just a crowd of little kids
yeah
we usually go down and there's a tower that they have downtown you go down and have a couple of drinks and wait for traffic to go away
it's it's an indoor arena
reunion
there's one
there's the bronco bowl
that's out in fort worth though
arlington stadium
there's several big things down in
down here most of the most of the concerts are out at reunion arena
and it's it's okay
the the acoustics could be better
but like i say i haven't been down there to a concert since jeez i don't remember who i went to see last
i like the beatles some billy [joel] you know like in high school i guess i was a big billy [joel] fan
but i've been
well you know i listen to it
but i won't go buy it
i've i've like i've been exposed to so many new
and different bands lately just through this new radio station that i realize there's just a lot of a lot of things i've i never would have heard or even thought of looking at or listening to
and
oh i'm trying to think of a good example one that won't get me into too much trouble um
yeah
be a bad example
but like for example the violent they've been around for a while
and they've just started playing some new music of theirs
and it made me go out and buy some
and listen to it
i won't say i like the whole album really
but uh
uh_huh
yeah
i was reading an article about that
yesterday
the only thing i like about madonna is i think if if i was given a ticket to see her perform
i think she'd be entertaining to see perform
but i don't i don't really care for her music
there's one or two songs that i liked you know for a while
until they [overplayed] them to death
but uh i've never been a big madonna fan
but i do think if someone gave me a ticket it'd be a really entertaining show
i wouldn't go stand in line or sleep overnight at the yeah
that's crazy
some no
there's some
my parents you know i used to listen to the stuff they listen to
you know the guess who
and what have you
i've got some of that
uh i don't i won't say i make tapes to listen to in my car
but occasionally i put on l c d and crank it up because i'm you know the stuff i grew up with
listening to
so i'm i've got pretty broad musical tastes
i don't really care for gospel
and i'm not a big country fan
but other than that i'll listen to just about anything
yeah
i've got some i've got i don't know about a hundred hundred and fifteen c d
i suppose
i just i've got a bunch of albums
but i never play them because c d have taken over
yeah
you can scratch them up pretty good
and they'll still play
yes
so go out and play in that sun
all right
well pretty much uh the thing i'm into mostly is new age
uh like yani um oh uh peter [barden] uh gosh there's just so many of them i can't even can't even name them all enya
i just got a catalog just now as a matter of fact uh actually my husband got it uh lady [slipper] catalog and it's it has music from a lot of women
and it's got uh enya in it and carol [nessin] have you ever heard of her
well actually most of the music that i listen to
there's no theme it's instrumental
um and i tend to like instrumental better because there isn't that underlying theme there's no message to be get gotten there um it's just enjoying the [melody] that's what i like about music
well um i guess you could tend to [categorize] some of the stuff like i like in into jazz uh jean [luc] [ponty] is he's kinds of a he's he's jazz
but he's kind of more of a contemporary type jazz he's got the um the electric violin
um my husband just said before i switched to this other phone he said so you like the [dixie] [dregs] and that's is another one of my favorite groups
but it's they're kind of in a group by themselves really
they're more they're more like progressive
um no progressive music is more like they have real complex um uh [rhythms] and key uh key changes
um it's it's a more complex
it's it's not your your typical top forty type that has um it'll it'll be in a particular key or whatever
and it doesn't change
um progressive has a lot of different um i don't know it's it's a lot more complex
no
no
that's really a lot of groups don't like to be called new age because it's kind of a a label that it it kind of kind of [connotates] the out of body experience like the um [shirley] [maclaine] type thing
and that's not it at all
it's it's just a different type of music
and i guess um i guess you would really call it contemporary jazz
i think so um do you ever listen to one
oh six
um they play some of the stuff that i like although they've gotten they've gotten to a lot more into the saxophone stuff
and i don't really care a whole lot for saxophone like um kenny g he's okay
but um i like more of a variety
and it seems like they are playing all of this saxophone type music that enough is enough
you can only handle so much of it
well yeah
he's kind of a new age
kind of a jazz new age
it kind of kind of depends on how you look at it
uh_huh
what did you think of it
uh_huh
yeah
i saw him in concert several years ago
and he is puts on a really good show
he really is incredibly talented
what what what kind of music do you like to listen to mostly
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i i like top tom petty until he got to be kind of top [fortyish] like his first two albums were really good
they're real real you know nitty gritty down to the
i mean real roots of rock and roll
and i really liked that when he got to doing his um um didn't he do a
he did an album with who was it [stevie] nicks i think
and that was okay
but i liked his early stuff
a lot better
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
i like some classical except that i have a really hard time going to buy it because some of it is just really awful
and some of it is really good
and i don't know the good from the bad
excuse me
yeah
yeah
the one one classical piece that i really do like is [vivaldi's] four seasons
i really like that
and i like i like some beethoven um and that's really all that i've really [sampled] that i why i should say i i have listened to some others that i like that
i can't remember their names offhand
my husband makes all these tapes of all different artists and i never know what i'm listening to
i just know that i like it
i'd i'd probably put a c d on
and i would i would probably probably most likely go to something new age i would probably carol [nessin] or um or yani or somebody like that
um once in a while i'll put on some classical um sometimes my husband has a whole variety of music
so i really have a pretty much anything to choose from
um i do like a lot of the older stuff too
but we don't really have a lot of the older stuff on c d um
and that's pretty much all i listen to
i i hardly ever listen to the radio anymore
yeah
yeah
i live in [carrolton] oh okay
okay
yeah
okay
great
thank you
okay
bye bye
yes
okay
well that's good because i'm a singer
uh in high school and college in the classical lately it's been more contemporary country
uh
no
actually i do
what's called carioca uh with a
it's a a thing where you've got a background video that just has the background music the [instrumentals] and there the video has the words to the songs on it
and you sing along with the with the tape it's pretty they do it at a lot of different clubs
uh like dave and [buster's] and
oh little country bars and stuff
you get up in front of the audience and a [microphone] uh_huh
yeah
they've got a little t v monitor on the stage most places do
uh the person singing sees the monitor and most places have a big screen behind you
so that everybody can see the words yeah
uh not usually unless it's a real ratty song
it's it's fun
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it's you some of the places do carioca like once or twice a week
and then they have like there's a a country bar or country [saloon] i used to go to
that they have uh country bands most of the rest of the week
it's it's pretty neat
i like it
uh_huh
uh_huh
i i i had a a music scholarship to college
but i didn't use it
so what do you do
oh how neat
oh
i don't know about elementary
i don't know
i think elementary would be good
that would be interesting with the little kids
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i i can remember music back then
oh good
um
i think that's one reason i got out of music because i didn't think i wanted to go into teaching
and at that point it was either performing or teaching it was like oh well
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i after college
i got out got married started working or started working got married
and i didn't sing for ten years
and i just found carioca last october
i guess
and i was just thrilled i loved it
it's it's neat
uh not really not in
not anything not anything organized no periodically if we'd go to like a christmas eve services where they do the part of [messiah] or something like that
but that was about it
but back in high school i was more of a classical kind of stuff
through wagner and chopin and and [schubert] and
yeah
yeah
the things you have to do for competition
uh in high school i was from second soprano down to tenor believe it or not
i i sang tenor a lot in church
uh_huh
they
yeah
that's i found a lot of stuff
like anne murray she
i have to
that's one thing neat about carioca you can change pitches i mean change the keys and her stuff i normally have to take up at least a step if not a step and a half
oh okay
oh good
i don't feel bad
no
my
i'm in a sorority but we decided not to do it for the sorority my boss his wife is one of the uh the the [transcribers] for the tapes
and he was like do you want to make some money okay here
yeah
it is
oh now that's a neat idea
that's
wow
now that that would be a good idea
yeah
i proposed it for the uh for i'm in a service or actually it's a social sorority and it's beta [sigma] [phi] and they decided no that we wouldn't not everybody might be able to make all the calls
so it's like okay that's fine
i'll do it for myself
uh_huh
well
yes
okay
well that's good because i'm a singer
uh in high school and college in the classical lately it's been more contemporary country
uh
no
actually i do
what's called carioca uh with a
it's a a thing where you've got a background video that just has the background music the [instrumentals] and there the video has the words to the songs on it
and you sing along with the with the tape it's pretty they do it at a lot of different clubs
uh like dave and [buster's] and
oh little country bars and stuff
you get up in front of the audience and a [microphone] uh_huh
yeah
they've got a little t v monitor on the stage most places do
uh the person singing sees the monitor and most places have a big screen behind you
so that everybody can see the words yeah
uh not usually unless it's a real ratty song
it's it's fun
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it's you some of the places do carioca like once or twice a week
and then they have like there's a a country bar or country [saloon] i used to go to
that they have uh country bands most of the rest of the week
it's it's pretty neat
i like it
uh_huh
uh_huh
i i i had a a music scholarship to college
but i didn't use it
so what do you do
oh how neat
oh
i don't know about elementary
i don't know
i think elementary would be good
that would be interesting with the little kids
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i i can remember music back then
oh good
um
i think that's one reason i got out of music because i didn't think i wanted to go into teaching
and at that point it was either performing or teaching it was like oh well
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i after college
i got out got married started working or started working got married
and i didn't sing for ten years
and i just found carioca last october
i guess
and i was just thrilled i loved it
it's it's neat
uh not really not in
not anything not anything organized no periodically if we'd go to like a christmas eve services where they do the part of [messiah] or something like that
but that was about it
but back in high school i was more of a classical kind of stuff
through wagner and chopin and and [schubert] and
yeah
yeah
the things you have to do for competition
uh in high school i was from second soprano down to tenor believe it or not
i i sang tenor a lot in church
uh_huh
they
yeah
that's i found a lot of stuff
like anne murray she
i have to
that's one thing neat about carioca you can change pitches i mean change the keys and her stuff i normally have to take up at least a step if not a step and a half
oh okay
oh good
i don't feel bad
no
my
i'm in a sorority but we decided not to do it for the sorority my boss his wife is one of the uh the the [transcribers] for the tapes
and he was like do you want to make some money okay here
yeah
it is
oh now that's a neat idea
that's
wow
now that that would be a good idea
yeah
i proposed it for the uh for i'm in a service or actually it's a social sorority and it's beta [sigma] [phi] and they decided no that we wouldn't not everybody might be able to make all the calls
so it's like okay that's fine
i'll do it for myself
uh_huh
well
good
well my uh uh my interests lie mainly in classical music
and uh uh i although i wasn't raised with opera it's something that i've i come to enjoy how about yourself
right
absolutely
sure
sound
well i uh i tend to shy away from someone who uh uh is born later than nineteen hundred other than [erin] copeland uh [erin] copeland i enjoy
oh uh [gershwin] is uh i i uh i i haven't uh quite found jazz to be enjoyable
and and and a lot of [gershwin] has a a some of some of his work is a little uh has enough of jazz uh
that uh that uh is not particularly enjoyable for me to listen to
the uh uh uh like i i i suspect my favorites
uh are in the uh seventeenth and eighteenth century
uh uh musicians
uh i'd the uh-oh
there's one uh uh i guess more recent one with uh copeland uh is uh [raspegie] who i was always amazed that he was uh so contemporary um but i uh uh i our family gets down to uh the [myerson] relatively frequently
it it's our uh uh our one enjoyable uh if we can make it to saturday uh everything is okay
so it's uh it's a relatively busy uh activity
we uh one uh very nice uh uh opportunity that we've had is the is the dallas chamber orchestra that has uh uh actually it's it's it's wonderful
they they have a sunday matinee that uh uh if you buy two season tickets the kids go free
and uh that gives us an opportunity to uh uh to take the to uh uh make sure the kids uh get uh get dressed up and and go to the symphony whether they want to or not
and uh the uh their they [oblige] us by falling asleep
so at least that's pretty good
they're uh eleven nine and eight
and it's it's nice in that uh in that they're that you can get real close to the uh to the chamber orchestra and see the music and watch the musicians it's uh it's a very intimate setting
and the the music is really very good
right
it was just [recital] oh uh_huh
right
right
okay
now it's sandy right
sandy um what kind of music do you like to listen to
uh_huh
in san diego
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you
oh
oh um now have you lived in california all your life
no
you just moved there
oh
now where's home
oh okay
so country music is prevalent in arizona
is it oh
oh
oh how fun oh
oh gosh
i don't blame you
uh my husband's in the navy reserves and so he's going out to san diego
in about three weeks for his two week
yearly [stint] so i'll be missing him then
but oh
oh
and how long does he stay out
oh
oh thank goodness
uh_huh
oh i think that's terrible
oh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
oh boy
so he is real country now
oh that is that is
well out here in utah
we have a lot of country
and we live kind of in the country
it's by ogden utah
i don't know if you know salt lake city
oh yeah
well it's it's about an hour north of salt lake
so we're out here in the country
and we hear a lot of the country music in fact i work in a bakery
and the baker comes to work at four o'clock in the morning and i come to work at six o'clock in the morning and he just has the country music just [blasting] and he just rocks and rolls in the bakery to country music
oh i i bet that's really hard being their mom with all those with the two little ones
it's a way of life for a while huh
yeah
that's good
well um my favorite kind of music is new age
and it's that sounds like it's hard rock and roll
but it's not it's the
oh the [synthesizer] [synthesizers] and all of that
uh_huh
and
yes  
um i was wondering whether you were in favor of statehood independence or the status quo for puerto rico  
well i'm i guess i don't have such close experience with with um an area becoming a state as you do  
um my concern is the economy because as i understand it puerto rico has a very low uh standard of living or at least um annual average income  
um part of this i suppose is justified in in that the climate they don't need perhaps the heating and the housing that some of the more northern territories need  
however in that case i guess i would favor status quo  
i have been to puerto rico and and found it very very interesting  
i did peace corps training there  
and so um you know i saw it also as a young student  
and and it was very foreign in a certain sense although i had grown up in california  
and so the spanish was no problem  
um it was it was you know very lovely  
and and the people seemed very friendly and and nice  
i have  
actually i work with uh a girl from puerto rico  
and i guess i have never thought to ask her what she favors um  
well probably more on in terms of the u s um  
you know i'm i'm not quite sure how the u s [copes] with this sort of thing  
i've live abroad most of my life  
so i guess i i've been very cut off  
i lived actually in lebanon  
so i was very cut off from the the press as i you know and be was becoming an adult  
so i don't know how the u s would cope with uh a new state that is so very very poor  
um i guess you know we'd have a lot of aid if if you consider the inner cities of like new york and and how much aid it needs  
i suppose the whole country or the whole um new state would require such aid  
i think so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
those are good points um which obviously i had never thought about  
uh i don't know uh i suppose they also not being a state are probably freer to determine their own um ways of life than they would if if  
i'm trying to think exactly what is [imposed] if they would become a state versus a territory  
perhaps [compulsory] education   um and taxes  
uh_huh  
well well actually i  
one one thing that i remember hearing in the news the past couple weeks that might be significant is that they've recently voted that spanish is the official language which i always assumed it was anyway  
so if they've just taken such action it would seem to [indicate] to me either they're doing it because they're afraid they might become a state and want to declare this before they become a state or maybe because they don't want to become a state for fear of losing the spanish or hispanic heritage  
i i believe i would probably tend towards that  
well that's interesting  
right  
what about if if um they demanded to have spanish as the official language as a condition for statehood  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's interesting because although i tend to be bilingual spanish based on experience um i was in bilingual education in california  
and i didn't have any problem with my students  
but i noticed my my brother who was quite a bit younger was learning spanish in elementary school  
and he can't speak a word  
and so obviously it didn't work in california  
right  
right  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
well thank you very much  
bye  
bye  
i was a resident although very young of the of what is now the state of alaska in nineteen fifty nine when alaska stopped being a territory and became a state  
uh so i guess i have a left over positive feeling about the question even though i don't know very much about puerto rico  
uh i know that all the things that happened relative to that territory in alaska have been very positive uh  
and i have a suspicion that that i believe that a the statehood is a good idea whenever you have a territory the size of puerto rico one ought either to make it a full [fledged] state or or let it go one or the other  
what is your situation  
oh that's very interesting  
your concern on the economy was one in terms of if it became a state would that put even more pressures on on puerto rico or pressures on the u s in terms of aid  
or  
uh_huh  
i guess um we're assuming that that puerto rico would be per capita significantly more poor perhaps than than say mississippi  
or  
okay  
that's something that that i guess i have not much of an image of other than than puerto rico as a tropical island and consequently large numbers of [barefoot] [natives] or something not in a [perjuritive] sense but in a in a carefree sense i guess  
although i'm aware of the political problems and unrest and and also difficulties they have um i don't know whether state statehood would improve their economy  
i don't i don't know that the the act of being a state would have any impact on on them  
uh i guess they would have the ability to do some taxing that they don't have now  
but of course if their economy is weak there is not much of a base on which to tax  
i don't know if they suffer in a sense of income loss as being since they aren't a state whether there are monies that escape them so to speak because they aren't able to tax like a typical state would be  
how do you feel though about  
well i guess it's to their advantage to be a territory  
but um i wonder how have having been in a territory but only as a young student  
and my parents were in the military at the time  
so they didn't have ready negative feelings about being in in alaska at the time since they voted absentee  
i i would imagine that it must be a little bit of a feeling of second class [citizenry] uh to be in a territory that large and not being able to vote  
the district of columbia people for instance are quite frustrated i think at times in their not having a senate representative  
uh_huh  
uh i see what you mean  
so that  
yeah  
taxes would undoubtedly be occurring  
uh there  
i don't know i don't even understand exactly how taxes are handled in a territorial situation  
um frequently the laws in a territory are are in some ways as stringent as they are in other states  
i  
and i'm thinking in terms of education  
but then again each state sets its own  
and i don't know how a territorial governor takes care of something like puerto rico  
um it's interesting because i haven't thought of them in terms of the problems relative to uh economy uh i had thought of it more in terms of political uh [realization]  
and i guess i had automatically made the assumption that gee anyone would rather be a state of the u s than an independent country  
so  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting too  
well it sounds as though you are in favor of uh status quo  
and i think uh having listened to you relative to the economy thing i think if i were being forced to make a decision i would plead ignorance and wait to do more research before picking one of these  
so i'm i guess i'm ultimately in favor of status quo also at this point   leaning towards the statehood  
i think i would be troubled  
i suspect i believe that any of our states  
and i  
[constitutionally] i don't think there are any prescriptions against that decision even if louisiana chose to go with [creole] or something  
um i don't think there is any [prohibitions]  
i would be bothered by that  
i'm i'm bothered by any tendency to resist what i think was one of america's [strengths]  
and that's the the the melting pot  
uh i i am particularly fond of a number of ethnic [cuisines]  
but i'm troubled by too close a [clinging] to to the past  
and i'm also realizing that that a common language i think is the ultimate bond of a country  
and canada i guess comes to my mind as they're going through the [throes] up there relative to french quebec and whatever  
uh that i i think that would be a negative step to make  
and i think that that they would need to [reassess] that  
um i'm troubled even in by [bilingualism] uh in so far that it it gets in the way of of of the melting pot aspect  
um  
yeah  
but i'm rather in favor of people being bilingual  
and i'd be quite happy to see a national law in which every student was required to learn english and a second language  
but i'm i'm disturbed by a country that attempts to be [functionally] bilingual at the official level  
um i'm i'm concerned about whether or not that causes [fractiousness] i guess  
well i think we have gone to time  
and i appreciate your having called  
good bye  
okay  
well i  
i mean what thoughts do you have on the subject  
oh you did  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's wonderful  
well do you have you probably have a different sense than i have  
i went to an inner city high school in chicago  
um and that's not where i am originally from  
it was a divorce situation of my parents  
and it was a a cultural shock to me   uh in terms of what i went through  
the high school is now called in fact it was called [tulley] high school  
and now it's called [roberto] [clemente]  
that yeah that's exactly about twenty years now  
uh what was it like living there  
i mean did you find that people appreciated having the privilege of being  
right  
i agree with that  
yeah  
i didn't mean that in a totally negative sense  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that you had ever been  
right  
i mean i'll give you and idea that i had um  
and i would say i would say the ones the majority appreciated what they were having in this country  
uh but a lot of the ones that didn't even in the minority not in the sense of the cultural world word they made it worse for the other kids in school  
and you know chicago back then even had bilingual classes  
yeah  
and i mean i had [geometry]  
the teacher was from cypress [greece]  
and   it was spanish and english  
so if you can imagine how i even  
and i mean and i guess i look at is as an enlightening sense  
um but i think basically i think they should leave things the way they are right now  
i mean i don't really have enough in terms of an argument pro or con in terms of making any type of change  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that's exactly  
and that's exactly  
i mean i can remember instances that uh wasn't as uh you know bad  
lord i don't know how it would be today  
well i know what it looks like  
i've been back up for a reunion  
it does  
yeah  
um but its' but it's an experience i wouldn't change  
i mean my husband um grew up in um a majority uh wasp southern ohio you know  
so that um  
when he saw where i you know saw my later teenage years he was just i hate to say aghast because that sounds so trite  
but he was  
and yet how did i turn out the way i did turn out  
and i said that's really irrelevant  
what you find is that um if you can talk to like  
i mean i learned a lot about the um island of puerto rico from talking to these kids  
you know and you lived there  
so you know that parts of it are beautiful and parts of it are [squalor]  
like here yeah   it's the same  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
this is true  
uh_huh  
i know what you're saying  
yeah  

uh_huh  
right  
right  
i probably would say the something if i knew that intellectually that it was good  
and emotionally that the people there wanted it  
you know it's just um  
i mean right now they have the privilege of voting with the united states don't they  
they count yeah as a principle  
that's what i thought  
um but i've also been down there  
we traveled a lot to the b v i the british virgin islands  
so you always pass through san juan in going to places like or  
i um  
and it's just it's i think what they do need is an [infusion] of some of the united states um privileges some of our resources the educational the teachers the um   academic opportunity you know  
i don't think we do do enough of a resource transfer if there is such a thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
they'll lose their [ethnicity] as they say  
yeah  
that's  
uh_huh  
see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it sounds like you probably know  
i mean to this day are you still in touch with any native puerto [ricans] that you have made friends with  
or  
no  
that's natural  
i just thought i'd ask that because i wondered what you thought they might think  
because i really don't have any um personal or professional or [familial] ties down there  
i don't know the the the the that's just children but the the people that i went to high school with um i think the majority are in that the probably the generation yours and mine  
and the one right after us that um their parents did not want to [acclimate] to the united states   um in terms of [retaining] um  
and my [background's] european heritage  
and their background it would be you know the i guess i would say the latin or [latino] heritage  
not speaking in english um having the children drive them everywhere and these were not old people  
these were like in their early forties  
um and i always that always bothered me  
and then there were some children that i noticed as soon as all the kids were out of high school i mean they went back to puerto rico to live  
you know they had made enough money here  
but on the other hand i guess it's all about choice   in everything  
um was it  
i mean how were they toward  
that's interesting the the way term you used [continentals] which i'm sure is the proper term  
how were they toward the united states in terms of just general relationships  
i mean were they glad  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know what you're talking about  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't i don't predict  
what you're describing is actually a conflict very  
hello uh  
you know what  
i've got to go because that's my cordless battery going  
i'm sorry  
i enjoyed talking to you  
and uh thank you for your time  
okay  
bye bye  
uh you know we even lived there for a a while when my husband was in the navy  
in fact the first year we were married he was already over there had been there two years when we got married  
and so our   we had a one year honeymoon  
uh   uh it was very nice um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure  
[roberto] died while we were down there as a matter of fact  
yeah  
it's like anywhere else  
people are individuals  
and i find it really difficult an and frustrated trying to make stereotypes you know  
and uh i can understand the the frustration you must have gone through uh going to the the school uh  
no  
no  
it's just  
if if it's not part of your culture   and you come upon something that you're totally [unprepared] for   uh the  
i had gone to a very uh uh um conservative uh college  
and when i started teaching school it was in an inner city situation   although it was not puerto rican it was uh a mexican american and black students  
they weren't like any of the mexican american or black people i had gone to school with  
so it was   it was very very different  
yeah  
oh really  
huh  
oh my  
yeah  
i'm not so much against their making uh it a state  
but i would want a very very very clear majority  
because if the minority can be so [vociferous] whether you're talking this group or or   any other group that that has a stake in something  
and they can make as you said uh so well the a a few can make it so miserable for everybody else  
that that my give you a clue  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right   oh i'm sure  
same as as any other part of the world  
really  
i i don't i don't think it's really to their best interests   to uh uh [attain] statehood as it is right now  
they have the best of both worlds  
they have uh representation  
but they don't have to pay all the taxes and so forth that we do  
uh being that it's an island economy um  
everything is imported  
and yes the cost of living is super high  
but but they're protected in so many ways without having to to pay for the rights and privileges  
so so you know i i would just as soon  
an an and if if they voted to for independence i would back them a hundred percent  
and that's   that's because i i guess because i'm not into [territorialism] or whatever that we have been in the past  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
part of that though has been i think uh selected by by them   in that that whereas they want the benefits of some of of what the [continentals] can offer  
they   they want to maintain that um culture of theirs   which which i understand  
and and so often when you when you bring in the advantages the resources and so forth there there is a trade  
most of the people who that that i know about who really uh would favor statehood   have pretty much [assimilated] into the the continental states already  
or they have family here and this way they can go back and forth  
and and it's not that much of a strain  
and   you know they're kind of [lackadaisical] about it   at least at the present time  
that's the way the way the pendulum seems to be [swinging] right now  
no  
we really didn't keep that up  
it's just  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
and so  
yeah  
there really were three major um camps  
and there were those who who uh were very friendly very open any anything we can do for you uh uh  
either way you know was great  
and then there were those at the other end of the spectrum and those that ho hum whatever   you know  
and and uh it it was interesting  
the whole time we were there it was very very political  
there was always some on sunday afternoons uh going through the all the little [urbanizations] the little neighborhoods with uh   blow [horns] oh  
i can't think of the term  
but you know  
and with banners and and a parade of vehicles with their with their colors of the   of a particular party  
so they were very very um [passionate]   about their beliefs  
but it it it kind of broke down that you couldn't really see  
i couldn't see that there was a clear majority that that stayed  
it seemed to shift as as  
oh oh i see  
okay  
well i have enjoyed it  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
so what do you think uh do you know any people from puerto rico
oh really
uh_huh
yeah
have you ever been there
have you ever been there
really
no
i've never been there either i've not known but just a few people from there
one uh there was a girl in in my flight in in uh air force basic training actually who was from there
uh_huh
oh yeah
it always sounds more
oh its i think i think everything always sounds more glamorous than it really is
because i spent five years in europe
and everybody goes oh you're so lucky
and i'm like well yeah
sort of you know
it's
but having lived there
it's not it's not anything like you picture it
you know it's not it's like i still have the [fantasies] about hawaii and all that stuff
but
and your just like yeah well
sort of
right
but um what do you think about about um their situation should they should they become a state
yeah
really
i i think i'm not opposed to it
but when its when the time is right
it will probably just kind of happen
you know where are they going to put the other one
well where where are we going to get another state
or texas
no
that's not a good idea
oh yeah
oh yeah
because it's just a territory
or is that what it's called a territory
okay
is that a u s territory though
that would be kind of bizarre
that's kind of far
well that's true
but there is not a whole lot between here and there
where you you start dealing with [guam] it's like you know flying over all these other places to get there
my dad was stationed in [guam] during the world war two though
yeah
of course you could [annex] cuba but they wouldn't like that a bit
i don't think they'd go for that
uh_huh
oh yeah
he thinks no
i have no idea
but uh so you think that mostly they're they're pretty much satisfied with things the way they are
yeah
exactly
really
that's why i said you know when it when when their time is right when they're ready for it you know that it will come about
okay
well rick it's been good talking to you
i think so
i think its they want like five minutes or something
don't they
oh okay
okay
so i guess um i start with maybe if if does
do you know if the population favors statehood or where we we're supposed to whether we favor it
well see i have mixed feelings because um it it with the financial situation
i don't really quite understand what would happen there
if they would be a burden to us or if they already are a burden
so i i really uh
i really don't care you know i mean
yes
i think that's true
so if that makes them feel definitely like outsiders but like getting back to the their government benefits they they do have a lot of uh tax benefits
yeah
so um also
of course they they can they join the they can always join the military service
they are considered citizens i believe
yeah
they can
yeah
that's a strange situation you're a citizen yet you can't vote
so if
yes
i went i worked um i went there for a class in a factory and some of the people in my class couldn't speak [fluent] english they had a very difficult time with it
and they they couldn't the ones that could speak speak it had a really hard time reading it
so
yes
as well as the the um the quebec people that that speak french
they're supposed to be bilingual but um
yes
what do you what do you um do do you think they should become independent maybe or do you think they should
yeah
i think if i was the middle class puerto rican maybe that that would be the um [stablest] thing to do
they would
yes
so they've been talking about this for a long time
do you think they're going to ever vote
whether they want one one of the three choices
i read this ten years ago that they were having these big uh um rallies and people would be in the streets [flashing] signs statehood yes
and other people were down with statehood it's it down there
if um if you're familiar with their politics they uh it's very i don't know
it's called
or they have [loudspeakers] on their cars and they run down the neighborhood saying vote for you know pierre
he's or uh uh [pedro] he's the best
it's really kind of comical
yeah
these these people have these big [loudspeakers] because they have uh democratic system just like ours where they elect their mayors and their [councilmen] it's really kind of funny
it's it's kind of an invasion of your privacy too
going down these streets with these really loud speakers yeah
there there's some really poor areas where when i went uh it it looked like it was you couldn't if you didn't know the area
they they didn't advise you to go out and uh you know go in the the uh poorer sections of town
but the the big cities where the big hotels were that was that was safe ground to walk around
but uh particularly in san juan we wanted to go walk on the beach at night and they looked at us like we were crazy says no
you can't go at night because uh we were we our business was on the other side of the island we were only in san juan it was at night
they didn't want us to go out on the beach you know said it was very dangerous
um actually we um met some people that were in the naval base down there
and uh they didn't particularly like living down there because it was very foreign very different
the the people they they didn't treat them nice
you know um so i think there i what i learned from them there was a lot of resentment towards the americans
so
and it was like they were puerto rican and were americans
so that's why they're so um emotional about about statehood yet
like you say they can't really support themselves
so
yes
yes
it's very true
i don't know that that's a good one
yeah
but the thing the thing that bothers me about it the most is they don't make decisions they don't vote
i i think if they voted that as you say the um they they would probably stay commonwealth or that would be the best for them
yeah
but as you say it's two two different cultures i don't i don't know um so you like i said i was reading this ten years ago whether they they're going to be talking about this in another ten years
i don't see them doing anything
so i don't know
and it's also a long way away
you know if it was cuba yes [cuba's] very close
but uh particularly it's like uh i live in vermont from vermont to florida it's another another uh what fourteen hundred miles across the ocean
yeah
they have to import a lot of their um [cereals] and things
and i don't understand that when they don't have a processing
i guess it they
it's just as easy to bring the cereal in boxes as it is to bring it in in you know bulk grain and produce it there
uh i really don't know um
it could be
i'm sure they rely heavily on tourism
and even all the american companies down there with their uh electronics industries and [pharmaceuticals] are big down there
that's one thing that i did notice [pharmaceuticals] electronics makes up
i mean enough to be like eight or ten percent of their business
but um i really don't know [agriculturally] they could have so much
and they and they don't they don't seem to uh i don't know if i heard they don't feed themselves or not i don't think they support themselves [agriculturally] i found that to be really odd
you know i can see they can't grow the [grains] i mean they're if they i guess their [grains] don't do well in the [tropics] so like you say grow sugar beets and sugar [cane] and that's all [export] well yeah
that is it's [mountainous] and uh but it it looks [fertile] and it it um
i mean it rains enough they have the climate and the rain and if not it's like i've been to [saintthomas] and it just starts from the ocean up
and and it's very it's like one big rock
but uh puerto rico has lots of uh lots of uh [mountainous] region
and [coastal] region
yeah
that's very true
i don't know if they just take it for granted that they you know it's an american commonwealth they really don't have to advertise that much
but that is an interesting point
but i believe it's a very popular vacation destination
so the topic is vacations  
i think so  
i enjoy them  
uh the last was back down to lubbock to visit parents  
it was  
the last one was back down to lubbock texas   to visit family  
but that's not the tradition for us  
uh we enjoyed yellow stone real well last year  
yeah  
oh rocky mountain national park  
it's it's just like any of the other national parks  
it  
you know there's camping and fishing and hiking and wildlife watching  
and  
oh it's  
yeah  
we usually try and drive up there oh once every year or two  
sure  
to the top the of the peak  
sure  
oh it's not bad at all  
it's it's a beautiful drive  
now i admit up there the altitude is kind of interesting  
you know you get a little [lightheaded] and [giddy]  
but it's fun you know take along a picnic lunch  
and  
oh we love it  
uh no  
they're only to the east uh i mean to the west of us   here in the springs  
you know it's right there at the very foot of the [rockies]  
you know and once a week we drive up into the mountains usually you know usually once a week once every other week  
yeah  
well i enjoy hills in texas too  
i've been in sherman  
no  
i haven't  
you  
uh once to mexico city  
but just a little day thing on business  
uh that's nice  
did you enjoy it  
did you enjoy it  
uh_huh  
uh got to eat some different kinds of foods and meet people from a different culture  
and  
oh  
huh  
so the place that i went that we've gone on vacation that i think i enjoyed the most   was seattle  
well we uh  
was two years ago   we went during the drought  
i'm sorry three years ago  
it had been dry for a whole week  
it didn't rain for a whole week  
yeah  
somehow we picked the right time and uh walked down on the wharf  
and i think we ate seafood every meal for well not quite every meal but most meals for a week  
uh it was wonderful  
uh the pacific science museum the little girl really enjoyed  
it's very interesting  
yeah  
yes  
it was it was super  
and uh went to the seattle aquarium  
and it's right down there on the right there on the ocean and down there on the wharf by the piers and all  
and you walk down in a dome a glass dome  
and the bay is [circulating] over your head  
and you   and you can watch the fish swim by and sharks  
and oh it's  
yeah  
and then there's [walrus] and sea [lion] and [porpoises] and oh it's   it's amazing  
oh absolutely  
without a doubt  
seattle is beautiful  
and the mountains   the mountains to the east of seattle   are just incredible  
i rode a ferry for the first time in my life  
you know up there you go from the [mainland] to a whole bunch of islands around there by ferry   instead of by bridge  
and you drive your car on  
you park your car  
you set your brake  
you walk upstairs  
and you have a beer   or coffee or whatever depending on the time of day  
it's amazing  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
and there are people literally that everyday take the ferry you know and drive   on to it  
yeah  
live on an island off off shore from seattle  
and you uh  
everyday they drive on the ferry  
they go upstairs and have their morning coffee  
take for the twenty to hour and ten minutes that it takes to get across and you know depending on where it is  
well in some places you know   in some areas you know depends on how far they are commuting  
oh it it's strict  
i'm i'm a west texan  
out there in the land of no water   and to think that people live on the water daily is kind of odd to me  
you know it's it's a different life style than we are used to  
oh galveston  
yes  
i liked galveston real well  
uh there's uh  
one of the areas down there close to galveston is  
i forget the name of the island  
but it's a bird [sanctuary]   with all kinds of wild birds [whooping] and sand hill [cranes] and ducks and [pelicans]  
and it's very pretty  
uh i like the rio grande valley   real well  
of course you haven't lived until you have been to san [antone] to the   to the [alamo]  
yeah  
the river walk  
oh it's  
and you need to go in the spring when all the flowers are in bloom all up and down through there  
oh it's just simply beautiful  
and of course always when i lived in west texas had to annually go down to san [antone] just  
yeah  
and go to uh lone star  
and uh you know make my annual pilgrimage to the lone star [brewery]  
and   uh el paso is kind of neat in kind of a funny way  
you know go across the border and all  
uh the davis mountains are interesting   out there in west texas  
yeah  
yeah  
uh now the right time of year to go there is in the middle of winter   because there's a beauty to the desert that it can most be it can best be appreciated when you are not burning up  
you know whenever you've been kind of cold where you are at it's most enjoyable   to get you know to get warm  
that's nice  
uh down there in the lower rio grande valley closer to where the rio grande [empties] into the gulf that's interesting  
i love the texas hill country  
and uh austin is neat for for an occasional visit  
yeah  
yeah  
it's a fun few days uh  
oh u t is real pretty  
uh there's a lot of little limestone lakes and [caverns] around that area marble falls and all  
that's real pretty  
uh i would say definitely go see that part  
and uh i'd say go to uh midland once just for the heck of it  
i don't know why exactly  
but uh you know find out when they are holding the petroleum fair uh  
alright  
that's a good that's a good topic huh  
where did you go on your last vacation  
what  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh  
oh yeah  
what's your out of the out of the state type  
where do you like to go  
really  
what kind of uh vacation spots are there in colorado  
uh_huh  
i think my parents took me there when i was real young  
we went to colorado springs and uh rocky mountain national park  
it was real pretty  
got to see [pike's] peak  
you drive by yourself up there  
oh wow  
oh that's tough  
i don't i don't think i could do that  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
sure is pretty up there  
you have mountains all around you  
uh_huh  
wow  
that's neat  
i'm jealous  
there's hills in texas  
have you ever been out of the united states for uh vacation   or business  
uh_huh  
i went to uh the bahamas last year on a cruise for my honeymoon  
it was really neat  
i had never been out of really out of texas or out of indiana much out of the united states  
i'm from indiana  
so  
what  
yeah  
it was great  
it was really pretty down there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really did  
there  
in fact one uh family that sat at our table every meal was from london  
and they had never been to the united states  
so they were really enjoying it  
and they were telling us about all their trips  
they had been to disneyland  
and it was neat to meet different people  
uh_huh  
oh really  
i've heard it's really pretty up there  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh wow  
yeah  
that would have been nice  
that would have been best time to go  
uh_huh  
pacific science  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
oh neat  
that's the vacation you recommend huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've heard it is   uh_huh  
really  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
oh   uh_huh  
and your car is on a ferry  
and it goes across with you  
that's really neat  
to work  
that's really wild  
huh  
hour and ten minutes  
yeah  
that's really interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
i've been wanting to go to the west texas and see different parts of texas because i haven't lived here very long  
and i haven't really seen much  
so what are some good things in texas to go visit  
galveston  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[boardwalk] and all that  
yeah  
i've heard it's really pretty  
really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
down by big bend  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've heard to go to austin too  
a lot people say to go down there  
what's there to see in austin  
uh_huh  

and uh what part of virginia uh  
[blacksburg]  
okay  
i've been  
sounds vaguely familiar  
yeah  
okay  
i i hadn't been down in that part of the state really  
uh i wish we did  
oh okay  
where all you guys go  
uh_huh  
uh uh  
uh  
all these places that i've never been  
uh  
well it really depends  
i mean uh seems like i do a lot in the midwest lately  
uh my uh fiancee's family's from wisconsin  
and so we've been out there a couple of times  
and uh i uh went to purdue for a couple of years  
so i've gone up to indianapolis on occasion to visit friends  
and uh uh i'm a real big baseball fan  
so i usually try to combine it with uh catching a couple of games somewhere  
i'm uh i'm a big red sox fan  
but uh i uh  
uh you're a red sox fan too  
i usually try to catch whoever's in town though i don't specifically  
i you know go to cleveland to see them play   the indians or the red sox  
uh uh that's about it  
we don't i mean we do a lot of little trips around here uh  
and uh  
not that much  
we've gone out to um uh a place in western pennsylvania called falling water  
uh have you ever heard of it  
yeah  
it's it's really neat  
it's this house built on on a [waterfall]  
and it's uh really cool  
um of course we keep picking crummy weather to go out there  
uh the first time we went out there was uh the day after hurricane [hugo] had come through  
so i mean they they didn't have any power  
and it was really cold and and rainy  
and uh we went up about a year later  
and it was better but not a whole   lot better  
so uh where else did we go uh  
we've gone to richland last year   and uh had a good time   down there  
uh my girlfriend has with her sisters  
but i haven't been   down there  
uh i hear that's nice  
we're going to get down probably down [norfork] sometime this summer   just to see why catch a football game actually  
uh spend a day and a lot of money  
yeah  
i've heard uh  
i'm not real interested in williamsburg because of the of the price attached   to it  
we just  
we  
i  
uh  
uh yeah  
we'll   do that  
oh okay  
so i can wander around without  
oh okay  
i just have it pay somebody to get into the buildings  
oh okay  
i didn't know that  
yeah  
i think uh they do the whole with you know paying  
they really did throw away a lot of money to get getting one thing or another  
but they had a good time  
so  
uh uh  
yeah  
i was uh  
we use it live in california  
and uh my um  
up up around san francisco  
and uh there was one year when my father was uh my father's company was starting to do stuff down in los angeles  
so my father was working down in los angeles for like uh six months or so  
uh actually i think it was closer i think to a full year  
and you know we'd he'd fly down there on mondays and fly back on fridays  
well any time we had a school vacation or something like that we went down to los angeles  
so i saw i went to disneyland about five times   in one year  
and i really have no great [urge] to go back now  
oh it was great because uh well the times that were really fun were when uh we had vacation  
but the kids in los angeles didn't  
so we basically had one of the parks  
uh disneyland i mean there's still a lot of people at disneyland  
but there was another um another amusement park down there [busch] [gradens] uh  
there was nobody there when we were there we got we won a log floating ride like five straight times  
we just get get done with them and they go oh do you want to go again  
sure  
no  
i'd like to   sometime  
but  
yeah  
i've never been  
the [fartherest] south i've been on the east coast is charlotte  
so i um keep wanting to get further  
you know i thought i would go to florida a couple summers   ago  
but never did it  
my uh my sister lives in charlotte  
and they've gone to   charleston a couple of times and had a real good   time  
uh yeah  
one of these days we'll get down there although   i don't know when we're going to have vacation to do it  
we're uh we're getting married in about   a year  
and   our honeymoon we're going up to this um uh place in wisconsin called door county  
it's up by green bay  
it's a place my girlfriend's also wanted   to go  
and uh  
it's um uh  
i don't if you've ever seen a map of wisconsin  
but there's kind of like a little a little thing sticking out uh in the lake michigan  
that's door county  
so  
yeah  
they call it the cape [cod] of the uh   the midwest  
so uh we're thinking that'll be a lot of fun  
she uh she had this uh book of pictures from it that were really nice kind of like a travel guide  
so uh that should be a lot of fun  
oh  
oh boy  
oh that'll be fun  
well yeah  
you won't even   notice it though  
is that is that how you got into this uh this   you know uh data base  
oh okay  
yeah  
i was i was just  
i mean most of the people i've talk to are from are from texas  
so when i you know when i heard you were from virginia i was like oh okay there's somebody different  
and you said oh i got somebody down in texas  
i go okay that the connection   right there  
uh i uh  
most people talk to texas  
there's been a couple of other the people uh most of whom are like me that work in in speech labs that are going to use data base   eventually  
so uh it was fun  
i actually yesterday i ended up talking to somebody else from the same lab i'm in  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh that's neat  
i haven't uh i haven't had something like that happen just uh just getting the one guy   from the lab  
uh you're sure have a nice town  
uh my uh sister lives on lake   norman just  
yeah  
uh we keep wanting to get down there and visit them over the summer  
and it's   never really works out  
yeah  
traffic not much else we do for vacation really  
uh just so we don't haven't been able to take really  
no  
no  
are you guys   golfers  
or uh  
except our outside though  
oh i don't think there are any traveling that was in my early teens down in that area  
and i'm know real sure there are um  
when uh  
i was thinking i might be minor league  
but  
yeah  
[buccaneers]  
yeah  
um yeah  
i maybe seeing them um in a town just west of here frederick has a uh has a minor league team that plays in the same league with salem  
and uh i think we may be seeing them this   weekend  
yeah  
i think they're out of town  
yeah  
uh that's a nice little town actually frederick uh  
oh there's there's some nice things in baltimore you know  
the inner harbor and the uh   the aquarium and all that are very nice  
uh they've just done a uh  
you known i  
you know the aquarium is one of those things that you know because everybody  
uh i live down in the south western part of [blacksburg]  
uh_huh  
have you ever heard of virginia tech  
v p i  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
okay  
well we vacation a lot  
how about you  
quite frequently  
well we retired early  
so we're we take trips pretty often  
well we go to maine every fall  
then that's kind of a family visit and a vacation all up and down the coast  
and i have a daughter in texas and one in new mexico  
so we go out there  
and we go to florida  
and down oh  
we were just out recently at the outer banks of north carolina  
is that right  
where do you go  
what type of vacation  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what club do you follow  
red  
good  
me too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ever go up in pennsylvania in the mountains  
or  
oh  
i've heard of it  
i've never been there  
uh_huh  
gee  
uh_huh  
oh did you  
did you go   to williamsburg  
have you been down there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we were down  
well when we came back from the outer banks we came up due [norfork] and spent the night there with a friend in [portsmith] and then went to williamsburg and spent a night  
yeah  
yeah  
but it's a pretty neat down to just go and walk around if you like to walk  
it's a good town to just   walk in  
you can go   to the buildings and not go in if you're not  
yeah  
you can wander  
it's a good town to wander in  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
we really didn't do that really this time we just uh visited around  
we've done it a couple of times  
and that's enough for uh probably another twenty years  
oh  
that's great as a kid though isn't it i mean  
uh_huh  
right  
have you ever  
you've never been down to [epcot] at florida and disney  
that's good  
we we really enjoy that  
we've been two or three times and probably go back again this winter  
oh  
uh_huh  
charleston is a really nice place to visit  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's a real pretty place  
oh are you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
is it on uh one of the lakes  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
yeah  
that would   be really nice  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sounds good  
well i don't know what our next trip will be i guess our next  
well i know what my next trip i'm going to be a grandmother in july  
the first the first one  
so my next trip is going to be to texas  
yeah  
in the middle in the middle of the summer  
well they'll be air conditioning anyway  
so  
yeah  
my daughter's a [temp] at texas instruments   and working on this project  
uh_huh  
that's it  
yeah  
i talked to one in california  
i never asked him the other day how he was connected  
i don't think he was t i employee  
oh i see  
is that right  
well we spent last week end in charlotte with real good friends that had just   moved to back east from oklahoma  
and she's uh working on this project too  
i mean she's talking on the project too  
and uh we got back monday  
and i got a call yesterday  
and it was her on t i network  
uh_huh  
oh does   she  
that's nice out there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's real pretty  
well  
are you a golfer  
no  
me either  
no  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
nope  
not too much into sports  
just walking that's all  
no professionals  
oh there's one in salem salem rebels  
salem rebels  
[buccaneers]  
oh okay  
oh  
is that right up there in frederick  
uh_huh  
i've never been up there  
i've never visited baltimore  
i'd like to go just sight see a little bit sometime  
uh_huh  
okay uh  
have you did you have you grown up in dallas stephanie  
oh where are you from  
in germany  
well  
now there's a place i'd like to visit  
oh that's neat  
uh_huh  
my my husband had a bicycle tour of europe or took a bicycle tour about five months right after the second world war  
and so we've seen lots of pictures of the of the beautiful   spots and   areas  
yeah  
yeah  
that's neat neat  
what kind of vacations do you like  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
when when our children were younger we enjoyed we lived up in uh new york   or new jersey and and used to like uh traveling into upstate new york and camping  
and we had a little collapsible sailboat and liked to sail and that sort of thing  
but we've never really uh did any diving or anything  
little bit of of uh uh-oh   water skiing  
but not much of uh   of anything else  
uh  
uh_huh  
it's got to be the water  
right  
when when we were in jersey we used to go down to the jersey beach a lot and really enjoyed that a lot  
it's really they had   a really nice beach areas there  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
that's a really pretty area too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we loved the we loved the the new jersey area too because the the lakes were really pretty close you know  
you could   you could drive within twenty minutes to an hour and just be at a real nice vacation spot where you could sail and and just really  
and then we weren't too for from the appalachian trail  
we did quite a bit of hiking  
which is kind of fun  
are you a you a [hiker] or not  
not so much huh  
uh_huh  
so your your next your plans are try to find someplace to scuba dive  
you have any children  
okay  
then that's probably one of the reasons our  
we had little children all the time  
so some of the things are not as quite as uh [adaptable]  
yeah  
it is  
you have to try to figure out kinds of things that you can do that they will enjoy too  
and  
so i think  
yeah  
eleven or twelve i would think probably  
but maybe fifteen even  
i know that uh uh one of one thing that happens to us to vacation trips now is that usually that try to involve some of the members of the family  
you know we go wherever somebody is   that we haven't seen for a while  
so that that's kind of  
uh we just came back from uh uh grand rapids where we saw one of our sons graduate   from uh with his master's degree in social work  
and so that was fun  
and and the summer we have a we have a a reunion in in salt lake area up by park cities   where we're going to camp for a week with as many members of of a rather large reunion group that uh as we can get together  
so  

yeah  
um  
we we've we've moved around enough so that we now have people in different parts of the country  
i guess my favorite vacation idea would be to somehow figure out something kind of mobile where you could stop and sleep maybe you know like a   a small camper  
we've we've travelled in a big one  
i hate them because they're hard to [jockey] around you know  
but maybe a pickup with the back on  
yeah  
so you could kind of sleep in it sometimes  
but you wouldn't want to do it all the time  
uh we have enough friends here and there  
i would just love to just drive through the united states and stop and see people i know   and visit for a day and then go on and you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think   i think that would real  
and i would like to maybe not take great long trips but but have your home base where your home is   and then just travel out for like maybe oh a month maybe go  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
there are a lot of neat neat places to visit in america  
that's for sure  
we've i haven't been much to the south  
i haven't been in in georgia or florida or mississippi or alabama  
i guess that's those are the only states i have not visited  
but uh up the coast uh at uh uh in maryland and around there where the where the early history is there's some  
[johnstown] and uh in in that area is just really neat  
interesting things to  
so you know  
so  
yeah  
we took a trip uh around to the uh civil war battle grounds and things back in nineteen sixty when it was the [centennial] or something  
i believe it was  
uh had about three kids then i think  
but that was a really fun interesting trip  
i we we read bruce book before we went you know  
and so we were ready to look up the places we read about  
it was really interesting   yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well now camping is fun with kids  
if you're   you know  
once they get a little bigger not teeny tiny ones  
but even even some little ones do pretty good  
but   but when they get a little bigger so they can help  
that that's a fun way to to uh cut costs  
and it's enjoyable too  
very [restful]  
i mean i find  
yeah  
i find the outdoors very relaxing and you know kind of a change  
yeah  
well i'm with you  
i need my creature comforts too  
well it was great to talk to you  
okay  
see you later  
bye bye  
uh no  
i've only been here for the last ten years uh  
i grew up most of my childhood in germany  
uh and  
we we took a lot of vacations while we were there because everything was within driving distance  
so we we travelled all over europe   when i was when i was very young unfortunately a a little bit too young to really appreciate  
uh i was grade school age uh  
um  
that   that would be a to me a really nice vacation   because i'm i'm not in physical shape for something like that but uh i i sure would work on it   if i had an opportunity like that  
uh well my husband and i are scuba [divers]  
so we both like to go to dive resorts  
uh we went to hawaii on our honeymoon  
and we [dove] there  
uh but we we did about six [dives] while we were there  
and uh we were originally planning on going to [cayman]   uh last year  
uh but we weren't able to get enough people together for the trip  
we had to have like eleven people for   this package uh deal  
uh and we couldn't get enough people together uh to go  
so it ended up falling falling through  
we were going to get a really good price  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
snorkeling  
oh really  
um  
well my husband and i both like water  
so any any vacation that we go on is usually   involves close to the ocean   or or something like that  
yeah  
we   after we moved away from germany we moved to new hampshire  
and i lived there for seven years  
uh   and i really enjoyed that because you know the mountains were real close  
we like the we like the white mountains  
and   uh unfortunately i didn't really get to go skiing much while i was there  
i went skiing once  
uh_huh  
uh  
not not really so much  
if if if there was some place that that we went to where there was hiking involved i i would be you know happy to go hiking  
but we we never have really planned a vacation around uh places to go hiking  
yeah  
our next vacation will will be scuba diving  
i'm sure  
no  
not yet  
yeah  
yeah  
it's a it's a little more difficult planning a vacation   when you have have children  
yeah  
yeah  
and diving is something that  
especially for small children uh  
i think the the minimum age for diving is   is probably legal anyway would be probably about sixteen  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um   uh_huh  
that that sounds like a lot of fun  
our family had a reunion last year that was kind of like that too  
that there were several hundred uh people  
and they all kind of met at a central place  
i i didn't go  
uh but it would have been nice it would have been a nice vacation  
uh_huh  
or something like uh what's the like the volkswagen [vanagon]   i've heard is really nice  
yeah  
uh_huh  
my dad has been talking for years about uh getting a fifth wheel   and just picking up  
he's retired  
uh he's in his sixties  
and he uh would like to just get a fifth wheel and just travel across the country and spend a month here or a couple of weeks there   and just you know not   be settled anywhere  
just see see the rest of the country  
uh_huh  
he he does that quite a bit  
he he hasn't lately though uh because he's been ill  
uh but he's been known to be gone for a month or two at a time  
and you know he'll say this is my [itinerary]  
i'm going here here and here  
and i'll be back in about two months  
uh_huh  
have you been a to a lot of the different historical sites  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i   i think right right now while my husband and i don't have any kids we'll probably take as many vacations as we can doing things like scuba diving and   and adventurous types of things  
and then when eventually when we have kids  
now his his folks did a lot of traveling across country  
you know they went to the grand canyon and did things like that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i do enjoy camping  
as long as i have a shower nearby i'm fine   and electricity  
yeah  
it was nice talking to you too beth  
okay  
bye bye  
so where was your last vacation  
oh i i'd well actually i did visit hawaii once  
but i never made it off of oahu   which i've heard is not the nicest of the islands  
uh_huh  
oh that's  
wow  
yeah  
oh i've i've been lots of places  
my last vacation was actually in morocco i guess  
we that one would count  
uh that was about a year and a half ago  
and  
uh well my husband is french  
and we were living in france at the time  
and we decided that i i've never been to africa  
and i needed to get that continent since i   hadn't been there yet  
and it it's actually it's a fairly common vacation place for french people to go  
and they speak french  
and   so uh you know in that sense is just a little bit easier  
and it just seemed like it would be a fun place to go  
and   so we we didn't really have enough time  
we had about a little bit less than two weeks  
and as always it it seems a bit uh rushed  
we do a lot of traveling around  
we rented a car and drove pretty much everywhere  
no  
in fact some of the days we froze  
it was  
well we were there in the winter   in uh january or february i don't remember which  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
at at excuse me at what age did you  
oh that's too bad  
because  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it was a very interesting vacation  
the only thing i didn't like was in some of the more [touristy] areas   uh um the it would just be [besieged] by people wanting to be your guide  
and you there were some places   where people  
there would be kids there that were excellent at ripping you off  
and we had nothing taken because we knew  
and we had things in inside pockets and in you know in jacket underneath a coat type of thing  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the the worst place was in [marrakech]  
and the other cities it wasn't nearly as bad  
and a couple of them it was what we did in some of the other cities  
and they tell you to do that is to hire a local guide  
it doesn't matter who it is  
and they keep everyone else away from you  
and it's worth it  
and it's like ten dollars a day or something  
and its worth it just to keep everyone else away from [badgering] you  
and you feel stupid doing that  
but we did it  
and we were much happier  
and you also get in to see things that you might not get into   if you were alone uh  
uh  
yes  
no  
actually i haven't been all through europe   like i haven't been to italy yet  
uh we're going to go for a conference in september  
and so hopefully we'll get to travel a little bit too  
uh my more exciting spots have been  
i've been to the [galapagos] islands  
uh_huh  
that was one of the most wonderful vacations i've ever had  
yes  
if you like wildlife it's a fabulous vacation  
if you don't like wildlife it's probably not of interest  
but it that was really really fabulous  
and just the photos i have of it and gosh incredible and be so close  
um august eighty eight  
and then actually after there i went to um hawaii  
a lot of my travel has been sort of based around conferences or business meetings  
and so i went to hawaii and then to australia   and japan and china  
i i actually i didn't go diving  
i i'm a [diver]  
and so   that's that's actually been another of my favorite vacations has been taking little diving trips  
but uh  
no  
i didn't get to the great barrier reef  
i drove from [sidney] down to [melbourne] and over to [adelaide]  
it's gorgeous absolutely gorgeous  
the coastline was just incredible  
it's huge  
australia  
yeah  
uh but  
i don't remember if i had shrimp  
i don't think so  
oh i like that too  
but uh in fact i didn't eat out that much there because i was traveling by myself in a car  
it would have been i think much more fun to do it like in the van   with a bunch of people  
but uh  
uh_huh  
and i was by myself in china too  
yeah  
china was a little bit more uh of a challenge  
but it it wasn't more of a challenge in a sense because i hired a guide all the time  
and so i never you know got out by myself or not much  
no  
actually i paid about either a thousand dollars or a little bit  
no  
maybe it was about a thousand dollars maybe a little bit less  
i don't really remember for ten days including all my meals a guide a car the [airfare]  
and   but this is from hong kong  
because i was already in hong kong  
and um but it only cost you about a thousand dollars to go there  
and i went to beijing shanghai [chengdu]  
and actually then i took a train up from shanghai to a little [quingdao] i think is the name of it  
it's a little uh sort of getaway [retreat] village not far from shanghai  
it's just a train ride  
and that  
i had two internal one yeah two internal plane [flights] and a couple of other things  
it was really  
uh_huh  
around a thousand  
oh [japan's] ridiculous  
and i stayed i didn't stay in the top of the line hotels  
but i stayed in  
they were all completely clean  
and you know they were newly built  
and they were sort of the lower end of the top of the line hotels   because they said you can't stay in the cheap stuff  
right  
right  
uh but  
yeah  
that was  
i highly recommend that way to go  
if you're ever interested in going the route i dealt with this woman  
her name was rita at china tours in boston  
yeah  
uh and a friend of mine who had gone for a business trip to china  
and she just gave me this woman's name to contact  
and it would really be fun i think ideally with like two couples because you have a car and a driver   and a guide  
and then  
uh actually my last vacation was in connecticut  
uh we went home to visit family  
before that we were in hawaii  
oh  
it wasn't actually  
it  
when we were in oahu uh i couldn't wait to get off  
we we took a cruise  
and we went to four different islands  
and it was a really nice  
kauai was nice and maui was nice  
we had we had a great time  
we were there for ten days  
yeah  
yes  
so where have you been  
morocco  
really  
no kidding  
what what did you just decide to go there  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i'm sure it was wonderful  
uh_huh  
was it hot  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i was born in saudi arabia  
and uh   when my father worked there we they used to travel quite a bit all around you know   in in europe and whatnot  
but i was very young  
so i don't remember that  
and   i was three when we moved back here  
so i don't remember  
but we have all these wonderful pictures of all these great places that they have been  
and that i was when i was a baby  
but so   morocco i think would be wonderful  
because that's you know that's that area of the world i think would be great  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
we we found that in jamaica  
it was the same way   that people would come up and try and sell you well try and sell drugs and things like that  
but they they were so destitute  
and i guess they they make all their money on tourism  
and and they would come up and ask you you know if if you want to buy different things  
and really after awhile it really gets annoying  
you know it it's a little scary too when they're coming up and they're all over you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's great  
where else have you been  
well you lived in france  
so you've been all through europe  
no  
really  
uh_huh  
really  
lots of wildlife huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
now when was that when were you there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did you go on the barrier  
did you see the great barrier reef and and go snorkeling  
uh_huh  
oh diving  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is it really  
yeah  
yeah  
did you have shrimp  
i've seen in you know  
they they show all this wonderful seafood and and great big [prawns] you know the big shrimp  
and  
no  
didn't have shrimp there huh  
i remember food  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you're adventurous  
you went by yourself  
really  
really  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
was it very expensive  
you're kidding  
no kidding  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
all for a thousand dollars  
wow  
that really surprises me  
i guess i relate it to to japan where things are very expensive aren't they  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and you don't want to stay in the very very very exclusive   because you don't really even get a flavor of the country if you're  
yeah  
yeah  
wow  
oh really  
uh_huh  
okay  
where have you all been on vacation recently  
detroit  
is that a nice vacation spot  
right  
okay  
right  
so you probably wouldn't recommend that as a big tourist spot  
ooh that would be nice  
did you scuba dive there  
ooh that would be nice  
oh that would be enjoyable  
right  
yeah  
that's   a nice break  
i haven't been on vacation in a while either  
um usually when we go we go to colorado to estes park area   which is up kind of near denver   and uh stay in the mountains up there do a little hiking and [resting] get away from the texas heat that kind of thing  
so it's a lot of fun  
i worked up there last summer  
so i guess it was kind of like a vacation the   whole summer long  
worked at a camp there  
and so i got to spend a lot of time up in the mountains  
so that's probably my favorite place when i have to go somewhere on a vacation  
oh  
that's nice  
we um   we [canoed] up in arkansas at the buffalo river  
and that's the best place that i've ever [canoed]  
it's really really pretty  
i was a little kid then  
and we to have uh  
we stayed at some park  
and they had a little uh mountain man who came down the river every night  
and he would give a little talk about mountain things  
you know i think he wasn't a real mountain man  
but we were pretty convinced he was a full   [hermit] who lived up in   the woods that he'd come in his little log boat down the river  
and we would have to we'd  
and he'd make sassafras tea out of sassafras roots that he'd found  
and   that's a good family place to go  
and then the river was really nice because it wasn't too frightening  
but it wasn't   you know too easy either  
it was like  
that's true  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
well that's good  
well we um let's see  
the only other place i've ever [vacationed] we'd you know go on camping trips up to texoma and things like that  
and then i went to england   a few years ago  
i was a   student there and spent um a semester studying abroad in london  
and that was a great time because it's so that's such a neat place  
and it's there's not a language barrier  
so you don't  
i mean there there's a little bit because there's some of those english words that you just don't exactly know what they mean  
and a lot of people have trouble wrestling with their accents  
but it's it was really fun  
i i i really enjoyed that  
i'm probably going back there to work   for a year  
it it's really nice  
i would i would spend all my time in london   or most of my time  
and that's it was really different being in a big city  
because i don't get much into urban you know really urban areas a lot  
and it was it's really it's sort of a weird little anonymous feeling where no one knows who you are  
and you can spend a whole day without talking to anyone which i thought i would just hate  
but it ended up being kind of nice because you're not accountable to anyone  
you could just kind of   kind of walk around and observe  
i did a lot of just going out by myself and riding on the subway and watching people  
and i had a great time doing that  
it was really interesting  
yeah  
i know  
i keep wanting to get up to  
i haven't i haven't been anywhere else outside the united states  
i haven't been to mexico or canada or  
oh  
yeah  
that would be nice  
i had a friend from there  
then i i'd love to go somewhere in asia  
but i'd have to have a tour guide with me to   help with all the language and all that  
so yeah  
that's why that's why england was nice  
even we traveled in europe for about a week  
and that was even nice because there wasn't uh the  
most the places we went we went to germany and switzerland and  
yeah  
we have  
we   we did we [whirlwinded] through   europe  
it was just insane twelve days where we'd just stop like a city a day  
and you slept on the train at night  
but there wasn't a  
it was strange  
it was kind of sad  
there wasn't ever a language problem there because everyone in germany knew english  
and everyone in switzerland   knew english  
so we were kind of pitiful  
we found one restaurant we were in and got seated  
and then no one knew english in there  
and we were just   finally had to break out the phrase book and start looking up things  
but it was  
oh i had fondue  
that was easy to say  
tried to get fondue and white wine  
and that was  
we were able to have that pretty pretty [effortlessly]  
there were some people at the next table who spoke english  
so we   [elicited] their aid for a while  
and   they were very helpful  
so   it was it was a pleasant time  
i'd i'd love to go back there  
there's just not time  
there's not enough time to go see everything and then to afford to see everything  
right  
that's  
that and sleeping late  
i keep hoping for  
well   it was nice talking with you  
and have a good afternoon  
okay  
good bye  
okay  
recently  
my most recent trip was last year  
and that was detroit  
yeah  
well it wasn't really  
it was um uh to see an old relative  
and it was uh just to uh have some fellowship with her  
no  
the only thing that i i visited that you know is quite a tourist spot is [cancun] mexico  
and that was real nice uh  
no  
we just kind of walked the beaches and looked at all the beautiful scenery there  
yeah  
and just kind of relaxed and [unwound] a little bit   from our daily routine  
huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh that's always refreshing to get away from  
oh well that's nice  
yeah  
well my uh my middle daughter and her husband have just taken up a new activity  
and that's canoeing  
and uh they've been to the guadalupe river  
and they also uh uh have been to uh i guess colorado  
and they've really enjoyed it  
it's a whole new  
uh_huh  
huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
oh that's neat  
sure  
uh_huh  
well you learn a lot of um skills too  
and i think you're more receptive when you're younger than when you're older to learn new skills  
and i think they really it really [penetrates] in your memory you know what to do because you really have a great interest in it   because it's something you weren't forced to do  
so you have kind of a relaxed mode of learning  
and you're more receptive  
uh_huh  
oh that's exciting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i had a friend that uh visited england not well i think it's been probably two years now  
but that's her next goal and she can do it is go back to england  
because she really has a great desire to do that  
because the love that she um has for it now after visiting it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do your own thing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's wonderful  
there's a lot out there to see  
i'll say  
well i lived across the street almost from canada  
so that was that that's a nice place  
canada is very nice  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
absolutely  
sure  
somebody that knows their way around  
well you've been quite a few places there  
once you think about it huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
that's great  
uh_huh  
what did you wind up with  
oh okay  
uh uh_huh  
they kind of guided you  
uh_huh  
well good  
i guess that's why we need to plan for retirement so when we do have the free time we'll have the the means to uh pursue our dreams  
yeah  
i guess that's what retirement is all about  
yes  
uh_huh  
i understand that  
well it was nice talking with you too craig  
you do the same  
thank you  
bye bye  
certainly  
um  
well i i tend to uh take two kinds of vacations the vacations to visit family   and the vacations to just have a week being cultural and going to the theater and doing sight seeing and things like that  
oh well i couldn't live without the family vacations  
but uh my favorite is the the [indulgent] ones where we go off and and uh see places that have interested me since i was a kid   for the most part  
and uh  
uh not anymore  
they uh they've been in san diego for the last few years  
and they're moving to florida  
and that's one of those things  
you just have to go once a year  
so uh basically it it sorts out into that  
and then once about once every three or four years i try to get over to england because i lived there for a while   some years back  
oh  
beautiful country  
beautiful country  
beautiful people  
but uh  
and i'd real   really like to go because um i'm fairly recently married  
and and my husband has been hearing about these people for years  
and uh but he's never met them  
so uh i'd like i'd like to do that  
but anyway that's that's our typical vacation  
and uh we enjoy the family vacations  
but the other ones are very special [getaways]  
and we probably take one of each every year  
how about yourself  
oh i've never   been on a cruise  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
well what do you do on a cruise  
i've never been on a cruise  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and where have you been on these cruises  
i see  
oh the the mexican coast  
that's all mexico i think  
where are you from originally  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
well i i grew up in dallas  
so i mean   it's not it's not like i'm going home  
my   my parents retired first to san diego  
and they're going now to florida  
and so they're going very nice places  
thank god  
that will be a pleasure to visit and get to know  
i really came to love san diego and feel very   comfortable there  
they've been there eight years  
and uh you know i just grab the car and drive everywhere  
so it it is it is nice  
but it's not home  
this is home  
and um and i've never thought about a cruise  
it's so funny  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what's the best part from your point of view  
uh_huh  
oh that will be nice  
oh sure  
sure  
well go in don't go in the winter  
oh  
well there are exceptions made for special occasions like that  
but the ordinary thing is to stay out of the north in the winter and get out of texas in the summer  
so  
huh well that sounds wonderful  
i i guess i i would [contemplate] going on a cruise uh-oh all circumstances permitting it  
uh_huh  
huh how long are the cruises  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i tend when when i spend enough money to go overseas  
i   go for a long time  
oh that's interesting  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh  
that's really nice  
uh_huh  
huh well may maybe now things are [calming] down again   that will happen  
well that that's really great uh  
i i mean as i said basically all i've done is go back and forth to parents  
and uh  
and and uh we had my husband had a conference in l a  
so we spent a week in l a  
and of course  
uh i'm i'm i'm very unusual  
i like  
lynn do you do you want to start  
okay  
do you want to tell me about summer vacations you've taken  
or  
uh_huh  
which is your favorite  
uh_huh  
your family doesn't live close then  
okay  
yep  
i understand  
wow  
i've only been there once  
and i'd love to go back  
and it was  
yeah  
it  
we had a great time  
well uh we we as you do take family vacations uh sometimes one a year  
and but this year we're not going to be taking one for several reasons  
but vacations we really enjoy  
i think we've been on three cruises  
and we   we really love cruises  
we've gone on carnival cruise lines  
and uh we've gone fairly inexpensive from as most cruises go  
uh we usually book just a month before it's ready to go  
and we get upgraded  
last last two times in fact we had an outside room  
and it was beautiful  
and we like not having to take our [suitcase] in and out of hotel rooms and drag it all around  
it's kind of  
oh my god you do everything  
you i mean you can be as busy as you want to be or as laid back as you want to be  
you can sit in the sun all day around the pool  
or you can take part in the games that they have going on  
they always have bingo  
they have a [casino]  
uh they have a [massage] parlor  
they have exercise  
i mean you can do anything  
and that's just [aboard] ship  
and then when the ship [docks] you get to go sight seeing and shopping  
and that's quite fun  
uh nassau san juan saint thomas  
we've been there twice  
we went two cruises that hit those islands but with different people  
we we've gone with friends each time  
and then we went to uh the western caribbean which is uh port uh [cancun] [cozumel]   and [ocho] [rios]  
pardon me  
yes  
uh_huh  
and but it was wonderful  
so we really like those  
and uh i guess we just like to go someplace someplace entirely different  
we've been to a few places in this country  
we still have a lot to see though  
we're from illinois originally  
and we've been down in texas eighteen years  
and so like you we always try to make it you know back home to see the relatives  
we both still have family there  
and that's fun  
it brings back a lot of memories  
uh things are different there though  
they're uh  
i don't know  
it's just entirely different world than this area  
did you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
oh they they they really are  
we've yeah as i said we've done them three times  
we'd be going again this this year if circumstances hadn't changed  
we   we'd probably go  
my husband would you know  
the minute i said the word he he he's [chomping] at the bit  
he kind of likes the [casinos] a little bit  
but i like all of that  
i like seeing other countries and shopping in other places  
i like shopping  
i can shop anyplace shop in london and france and wherever  
now my kids are moving to toronto  
so we're going to be able to go up there  
so i'm kind of looking forward to that except i hate to see them go  
but  
oh that's what everybody says  
and i i think it's  
i think i'll try to stay away except my my second [grandchild] will be born in in the winter in january  
so that will be hard to stay away from  
yeah  
isn't that the truth  
uh_huh  
well there's all age groups too  
and that's that's kind of fun  
uh you if you sit at a table with a lot of people for your meals you meet different people  
you may meet people you know thirty years older than you or younger  
and everybody is really interesting  
and everybody is there to have a good time  
and  
uh we've only gone on the seven day cruises  
they have shorter ones  
and then they have ten day ones  
but i think seven days is long enough for us  
by that time we're ready to get home and get back to our routine  
i think most vacations uh seven days is enough for us  
we've gone  
i think when we went to england and france we were there ten twelve days  
and that was pushing it a bit  
yeah  
well that that makes sense it really does  
i mean oh we went to panama too  
went to panama last august  
our son in law is from panama  
and uh we went with our daughter and son in law to visit his parents who live there  
and his father is a a doctor  
and his mother is a kindergarten teacher  
and they took time off  
it was their winter  
and they were having a little break  
so they took some time off that uh they could show us around  
and it it is a beautiful country  
it is beautiful  
they have mountains  
we were an hour away from the mountains or an hour away from the shore  
and it it is gorgeous  
they live in a small town called david which is northern panama up near costa rica  
and uh it's it's just it's just a gorgeous country  
most people don't realize it  
i think if they could get tourists coming to their country they'd improve the economy considerably  
yeah  
we really hope hope so  
yeah  
well that that's that's pretty good  
that's pretty good  
oh do you like l a  
well this is the season for vacations  
and uh i guess for places i like to go i enjoy going to the beach and having having outdoor being outdoors somewhere  
someplace that's very different than texas  
and i  
as far as maybe maybe as the summer heat comes along i would sort of like going somewhere where it's not so hot and being able to be outside enjoy outside activities  
so  
enjoy going places where  
i enjoy playing tennis  
so i like to have a tennis court there  
or or if it's at the beach the beach is great  
a pool is great  
and i  
oh well let's see  
we have plans this year to drive up to the uh to colorado  
and we will be going to estes park and colorado springs  
so  
one year we went to the southwest corner of colorado into [durango] and north of the area there  
and i  
boy that's a nice a nice place to visit  
it's really nice at  
there's a nice nice train ride that goes up to the city of silverton where they used to do a lot of silver mining  
and uh and then actually north north of that is another town and a smaller on a smaller scale i guess than silverton  
but i and then there's lots and lots of real of mountains that are covered with uh boulders  
so i guess people jeep through that area  
and we did not have a chance to do that  
but i sure would like to go back there and do that again  
i have not been  
but i have heard it's wonderful  
right  
right  
and the   beach is nice  
the beach is really nice isn't it  
oh  
sea shells  
sea shells  
yeah  
oh where do you stay  
my husband always wants to go to [destin]  
we just have not gone that direction yet  
okay  
right  
oh that's nice  
great  
oh nice  
oh  
great  
oh  
well we have just   we have just  
are you driving  
oh  
well we are  
the neighborhood that we live they are switching to an alternate calendar this year  
so it  
starting well starting at the end of july we will have two vacation weeks in october and two vacation weeks in march  
so that will be an interesting turn on vacations for our family  
so i  
well it's  
what it truly is supposed to mean is nine weeks of school three weeks of vacation   nine weeks of school three weeks of vacation  
and uh in and in the summer would be more like a two month two month break  
so and they hope to boost the they hope to boost the learning of the children   just the retention of the material for them  
so uh  
yeah  
yeah  
so it's  
so anyway so maybe maybe within a year we will see how that falls  
we will head for we will head for florida maybe in somewhat of an off season instead of summer  
so uh  
well that's probably all we need to do today  
alright  
thanks a lot  
right  
yeah  
where where do you usually go  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
we are uh we have not had a vacation in several years  
so be our first chance in awhile uh  
we are going to go to uh [destin] florida which is a very nice beach area if you are not familiar with it  
oh it's it's gorgeous  
uh we used to go quite a bit uh before i moved out here  
we were closer and uh used to go almost every summer uh and rent a condo there on the beach  
uh there's quite a few uh there's a lot of development of of condominiums there on the beach front  
and uh so they have uh they are very very large [condos]  
and they have quite a few rooms and uh so we we will usually rent one for about a week or so  
and  
go down  
oh  
yes  
it's uh it's beautiful white sand and very clear blue green water and a   lot of nice waves usually uh  
enough enough to make it  
i am sorry  
uh there's not as many sea shells along there uh  
that's the only thing that they really do not  
they have some but not not so much  
um if you go further down uh you will usually find some but not right in there  
uh i do not know why it is  
but uh it just  
it seems not it seems not to have as many there right there  
but uh we we enjoy it uh  
it's  
the place where we stay is we usually stay at the same place every year  
and they are like i say right on the beach  
so  
it's a place called [jetty] east uh j e t t y e a s t  
and it's uh called that because it's at the very end of uh a [jetty] there which is   uh sort of at the end of this little little point  
and uh it's a at the very end  
it's the last set of condominiums there  
and it's uh it's very nice uh  
it's not very expensive uh  
you can  
i think we are going to go with another couple and their kids  
and uh they have a we have a uh i think it's three bedroom or two bedroom uh condominium which will sleep i do not know quite a few about   six or eight and uh cause it's got you know pull out couches and all that  
and uh i think it's going to cost us per couple about three hundred dollars for the week  
yeah  
it really is  
because uh the uh you know it has got its own kitchen full size   kitchen and everything  
and this one i think has two baths  
and it's  
the one we got is on the on the beach side  
so  
we have got a beautiful view and balcony  
and uh just  
you know it's really a nice stay uh  
in fact we stayed there on our honeymoon  
we i had won a trip to the bahamas but did not get to take it on our honeymoon time  
so we instead went there uh and loved it just as much as as if we had gone to the bahamas  
we   in fact we stayed an extra day or so because we liked  
the uh the particular uh uh uh [suite] we had gotten was very nice  
and   so we decided to stay  
but uh it's a pretty nice place  
you will need to try to go and   stay there sometime  
it's a little far from here  
but uh  
yeah  
we are  
we are  
it will take uh a day and a half to get there probably  
so  
uh_huh  
uh what does what does that mean alternate  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
i see  
kind of [scattering] the vacation out throughout the year  
yeah  
right  
right  
okay  
okay  
so long  
bye bye  
where is your favorite place to go  
oh that's great  
have you ever been there  
oh that's a perfect age   for disneyworld  
oh that's great  
yeah  
so we've been there a number of times  
and uh we're going next year  
we have a business trip every fall  
well we go on a lot of business trips  
i   i don't work  
well we do  
we  
my husband travels a couple times a month  
and in the position he's in they don't care if i go along  
so it's great  
i just kind of join up when it's something interesting  
and   uh disneyworld is the one for a week next year  
and it will be at this time of the year  
and this year we're leaving uh uh matter of fact we're leaving next saturday for new orleans  
have have you ever been there  
well you know we went there once  
in fact we had been in dallas  
and we were on our way home  
and we were driving  
and we said let's go to new orleans  
so when he said well this year you know i have a week there on a a project  
he's going to be  
and then i said well i'll going along  
i hope it's swimming season  
because it wasn't a tremendous thing amount of things to do   that i wanted to do there  
it well and that's probably  
we do like the night life to an extent  
and they do have a mardi gras night planned  
and i'm kind of anxious for that  
but uh yours to disneyworld sounds a little bit better  
did you know that next week there's several t v shows coming from there in celebration of their anniversary  
well and with a daughter nine it is just  
she's old enough to really grasp   the meaning behind  
uh so well if you're working then you're probably on a limited amount of time per year that you can go  
oh that's  
well i really i think travel  
when i heard my topic today i thought okay   that's my that's my favorite  

and really at our point of life our children are grown  
and uh it has just worked out really well with this uh position he's in   because i can go at a spur of the moment or what have you  
and it depends where he's going whether or not i decide to go along  
but i do do like to travel  
and it's uh  
i don't mind the pool life at all   during the day  
and i like to sight see  
and i love to shop  
so it's  
that's right  
but it  
well and one of my very favorite is las vegas  
uh that  
i would have to say we both end up going to las vegas uh probably once every maybe year and a half  
and presently we have quite a few frequent [flyer] miles  
and so i've just requested that they send us two of our coach tickets  
because we have a lot of flying with continental  
and they're recommending that you use those because they don't know the future of continental  
and i said now that we have all the miles  
we better start using them  
uh  
so we are thinking that we might go to las vegas during the winter this year sometime for just kind of a quick trip  
uh when we normally go that way we like to go to california at the same time because we really don't get out there as often as you could probably   from texas  
i think that's a good trip  
and really for the children to learn as well for a family vacation that would be excellent  
now we did what we sometimes do since we are in ohio  
and it takes a while just to even get to the what i would call the more [picturesque] part of the country  
we will fly to something like  
once we flew to colorado to denver  
and then we rented a car for two weeks  
and we went through the northern route and through utah   and as far west as las vegas  
and then we returned through uh new mexico that you just mentioned  
and it was   oh it was just great  
oh i i think that's that's the way to  
well we haven't traveled outside the united states that much  
uh we usually take family type vacations  
we're looking forward to one in october to disneyworld in florida  
we have a nine year old  
when when both of my kids were much younger  
and this time we're going to be going with just one daughter  
and she's nine  
so it ought to just be a ball  
uh_huh  
i think so too  
oh wonderful  
so you travel a lot  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
oh that will be fun too  
yes  
we went years ago  
we haven't been lately  
and i know they've changed it a lot and upgraded everything  
but we used to have a lot of fun there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
if you don't like the night life and the antique shopping there isn't much there  
but that can be fun  
uh_huh  
no  
i know this is a real good time to go because they are having so many activities and special shows  
yes  
be excited about all of it  
well not really  
we're doing the same thing tying it in with my husband's business trip  
and i just save vacation for things like that   and uh just travel whenever we can  
how easy  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so that's perfect  
what more could you ask for  
and then got to pick and choose the places  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
it's kind of shaky  
that's true  
it really is  
uh_huh  
our last big trip we drove through new mexico and colorado and went to the grand canyon and and uh back through silverton and [durango]  
and oh it was fun  
it was so relaxing and a really neat part of the country  
and the kids were old enough to really enjoy it  
our  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh there's   too much to see really  
where have you been on a wonderful vacation  
oh that's where we go home too  
that's where we go  
yes  
my husband's family lives just off of academy [boulevard] at [maize] land  
yes  
uh  
oh we've been there  
we haven't skied at [broadmoor]  
we went there last year at christmas time  
and it was twenty seven below  
so we had to cancel our ski lessons  
really  
oh just this year  
oh my  
uh  
so that wouldn't be a good spot to go on a vacation now   if you were a skier  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh  
well we went on a family cruise last year on the premier family cruise line  
and then we went to disney  
it was all part of the package  
and on the cruise ship they had mickey and [minnie] and chip and dale and goofy and donald duck  
and it was really oriented toward little kids  
so the kids could eat with chip and dale you know  
and you know   it was just a lot of fun  
so then we were on the cruise for three days in the bahamas  
and then landed at cape [canaveral] and then drove over to orlando and spent four days at disney  
yes  
that was the way to travel  
yes  
yes  
that's right  
that's right  
and kids are really cheaper too  
we really lucked out because the ship we were supposed to be on developed engine trouble two days before our cruise  
so they said we could either cancel [reschedule] or take whatever was available  
so we took whatever was available  
and we left a day early  
and they put us up at the cocoa beach hilton  
and the ship that was available the only uh rooms that hadn't been booked were the [suites]  
so we got the [suites] at the same price as a regular cabin  
yeah  
so then our cruise was actually extended a day  
and our disney was extended a day  
so we turned a seven day trip into ten  
and they paid for everything  
yes  
so that was a wonderful vacation  
yes  
well what kind of things do you like to do when you go to colorado  
yes  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
that would be  
yes  
i know  
i think one of the places i always hit in colorado is that current outlet store  
that's what  
oh with the santa claus on the cover  
yes  
i've already ordered from that one  
but we will probably be going up at thanksgiving this year  
so  
texas  
yes  
i'm in the dallas area   in plano  
uh   so that's not too far  
oh  
yes  
well it was when we left last year  
we left on the eighteenth right before that big snow storm hit colorado  
and we pulled in just as it hit  
so how do you go  
do you go up through the [raton] pass when you go up there  
that's on like route two eighty seven or something like that  
okay  
okay  
we uh went a different way when we went last christmas because of bad weather and because we were pulling a little u haul trailer  
because we had to take our dog in the car there was no room for luggage  
so we went all interstate  
we went up um through oklahoma city   and then up through uh kansas and then turned left and went in on i seventy  
and it wound up only taking us about an extra hour  
it was a little more mile wise  
but because you could go sixty five miles an hour on the  
well normally when we go on vacation we go home to colorado  
really  
yeah  
colorado springs is where we're from  
how funny  
really  
we live up up uh lake in the [broadmoor] area  
that's where my my in laws are  
oh  
uh_huh  
as of you can't even ski there anymore  
yeah  
they closed it down  
uh_huh  
they don't have enough money   to keep it going  
it doesn't doesn't pay  
so  
well   you know well now i don't know  
now colorado springs is real accessible to lake [breckenridge]  
it's only a couple of hours away  
and uh so it's it might not be too bad if you want to go skiing somewhere else  
but you can't can't ski up there any more  
oh i'd like to go on vacation  
i my husband and i want to go to florida   to go to disney world  
but we have two little ones   that are under two right now  
so we want to wait until they're a little bit older   to do that  
and  
oh  
well how fun  
oh yeah  
oh i bet  
wow  
well that sounds pretty   yeah that sounds pretty good  
and it was all a big package deal   where you just pay one price   and get everything  
really  
wow  
oh   what a deal  
great  
well that's great  
oh  
yeah  
i bet  
that sounds like the way i'd want to do it   i think  
oh well we like to ski of course  
so we spend so much time with our families   uh and seeing our friends  
because we moved to texas about two years ago so when we go back we are just jam packed full of people to see and things to do  
so we don't we don't get a lot of time to just vacation  
we did um last year though go to san antonio for memorial day   which was fun just to get to kind of walk around   and see the sights down there and do that kind of thing  
uh but you know other other than that with with both my kids being under two it's real hard   to do any any kind of   events that uh   don't don't require as much  
yeah  
that's funny   funny  
you should mention that  
i just got my catalog this morning and was looking through it  
uh_huh  
oh do you live where do you  
what state are you in  
oh you're in texas  
so am i  
i'm in garland  
yeah  
i talked to somebody from wisconsin or something the other day  
yeah  
so i guess they get people from all over  
yeah  
driving for thanksgiving that's going to be quite a drive for  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh no  
oh  
well wait a minute  
yeah  
we do  
we do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and then we go straight up through [trinidad]   and straight up i twenty five from there  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
well the types of vacations that i usually take  
i usually come back more tired after my vacation   then i do you know before i take it  
um i need to definitely take a vacation where all all i do is rest  
and i guess to do that i'd probably have to take it at home  
but um the vacation spots that i like to go to are places like the bahamas and florida  
i enjoy the beach  
[antibeach]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
you might be like i am  
i enjoy i enjoy going to the beach and to beach areas  
but i really don't like to get in the water the ocean  
i prefer a swimming pool  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i can understand that  
uh_huh  
that would be nice  
uh_huh  
i know i've taken several vacations to colorado  
and i used to live in colorado oh sometime ago for a couple of years  
and i really enjoyed that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've never been up to the yellowstone area  
so  
that's right  
that's right  
you got that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you have you have a lot of vacation areas you can go to then  
right  
that's right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it would be sort of  
i feel like it would be [confining]  
you know i would rather much rather get on a plane and get there   and then enjoy myself  
uh_huh  
yes  
i i agree  
i can i can do that too  
and uh you know i think if i had if i had the money i would probably go to europe every year  
because you know i think that they have they have it all over there in just a few tiny   two two miles  
you know there's mountains  
and there's beaches  
and it's all right there  
so  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
oh  
oh i am after our last summer's vacation i am [antibeach]  
uh_huh  
we went to uh cape hatteras  
well we we were out visiting one of our kids in maryland  
and we went down to cape hatteras for a few days  
and uh uh the the waves were huge  
i've never quite seen waves like this one  
and uh i was standing in water not more than in barely above my ankles  
and uh you know when the waves go in the waves go out they kind of all of a sudden you're in sand above your ankles  
and i was standing there talking to my daughter  
and this really big wave came and totally threw me  
and one foot did not come out of the sand  
and it tore the ligaments in my knee  
so i'm never going to another beach again ever  
i'm  
well i i love to go and play around  
at least i always did but although actually my i like the mountains  
i uh   i don't really like hot weather  
that's my biggest gripe about living here  
and i basically don't want to go to a hot place on vacation  
oh  
i my dream vacation is alaska  
this is   just someplace i've always wanted to go  
and someday i hope we can afford to just take a [humdinger] of a vacation up there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'd i'd like that  
uh i haven't been to yellowstone for a long long time  
and i would uh we've been talking about going there next summer  
uh i don't know we'll have to to  
it's been a long time  
but you know it seems when your family is is different places a lot of trips involved going to visit  
oh i'm  
we usually go up to wisconsin at least once a year   because this is where my husband and i are both from  
and my mother and his mother live up there feeling   lost and alone because we moved down here  
and uh we've got one of our our kids lives out on the east coast  
and so we have to you know go to those  
well i know  
but i'm tired of them  
i want to go someplace different up there  
uh my my idea i guess of the ideal vacation would be to begin with uh money be no object   you know so just absolutely you know first class fly where i want to rent a car if i want to   uh you know just the really the nicest hotels and stuff like that and   and not worry if somebody says well let's take this little side trip you know and not have to sit there and figure out um you know again we we fit that in there or not  
and uh that that's what i um you know that's what i would like to do  
i have no interest for example in taking a cruise  
to me why somebody would want to ride around on a boat for a few days is mind boggling  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i just uh  
that that does absolutely nothing for me  
but uh i don't know  
i can say that i think my my favorite spots are still to go to go where there's mountains and and a lot of trees and and wildlife to view  
and and uh i like that kind of stuff  
i could just sit there all day and look at the scenery  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i i guess i've never really thought about it that way  
our uh  
we have a daughter who's almost thirteen  
but she's uh   a very picky eater  
and our our standard excuse for not going someplace like that is you know gee holly would starve to death if we you know we took her   into the country  
so   so but i i would like if you know it was anywhere in the world to go i guess even though it's hot  
i would like to go to africa  
all right uh well  
let's see  
i'm twenty  
how old are you  
older  
okay  
i'm calling from uh provo utah  
but i'm from plano texas  
oh really  
oh wow  
my dad used to work at u t d also   uh generally we just go on family vacations to arizona  
my grandparents live there  
that's generally our usual summer vacation  
uh tempe  
so  
uh mainly just being with family is it  
we just hang out  
and my grandparents have a pool  
so we go swimming  
and uh  
yeah  
but we keep cool just by going swimming  
and it's fun to be with my cousins  
they're up there also my grandparents and   my cousins  
so  
no  
have you  
oh my goodness  
wow  
around christmas time  
oh  
wow  
oh really  
so do you   travel a lot  
or  
oh  
huh  
so you know a lot of good vacation spots huh  
that's your favorite  
i haven't  
where where do you live  
wow  
um  
um  
i do  
i work   for nuskin  
yes  
oh really  
oh my goodness  
great  
uh  
i don't  
probably maybe the [rejuvenating] cream is the only   other thing i would use  
than the intensive eye  
uh_huh  
good  
yes  
i do  
yeah  
we get free products every month  
so  
right right  
now i'm getting about sixty bucks a month free products  
so  
i've worked there about a year  
yes  
they're wonderful to work for  
yep  
uh_huh  
i ski yes  
i've  
no  
i don't  
actually since i grew up in texas i've only been here about two years and   have gone skiing about three times well five times each season  
yeah  
i  
uh_huh  
yep  
i do like to ski  
yeah  
i i said i do like to ski  
and it's it's kind of nice being up here just because it's all like a vacation in itself when you get to go  
if you like that kind of thing  
i am actually   a junior   beginning of my junior year  
so  
nursing  
you think  
i know  
i'm not i'm not  
and it was great  
how long did you get to stay there  
oh really  
uh_huh  
i just had a friend that got back from europe  
and she was there like all winter semester  
how old are you lisa  
okay  
i'm older  
older than you are  
okay  
we are supposed to talk about places we like to go  
so i'm going  
and where are you from where are you calling from  
oh you are from plano  
my sister lives in plano  
yes  
her husband is the new director of admissions at uh university of texas at dallas  
yeah  
so  
anyway so where's your favorite place to go  
where in arizona  
okay  
i've never been to tempe  
that's where i'd like to go  
what do you like about tempe  
pretty hot isn't it in the summer  
that's good  
uh_huh  
been to hawaii  
yes  
in fact i just got some reservations  
i'm going to go for uh almost two weeks this winter  
yes  
it's the longest  
well actually i lived there  
so i was there longer  
but two weeks is the longest vacation i'll have ever taken there  
so   i'm kind of looking forward to that one  
uh no  
in march  
we're going to go in march after my children's birthdays and get all that business out of the way  
yeah  
so i think i would like to go to arizona  
i mean i was in phoenix in january last january  
but it was rainy and [icky]  
it was the coldest it's been there ever in january  
i think it's very cold  
but i would like to go to tempe  
do we travel a lot  
uh some yeah  
well i've been a i was a travel agent  
i mean i have been up until just a few months ago  
but i'm thinking of going back to work  
yeah  
i i know a lot of good places to go  
but you definitely need to go to hawaii  
very definitely  
yes  
it is my favorite  
my husband hasn't been to europe yet  
and i'd like to take him there  
and but he's traveled all over the united states  
and i haven't  
like i haven't been down south  
i'd like to go to new orleans  
have you been there  
we i live in yakima washington  
so it's cold and rainy today  
it's yucky  
but we've had some pretty nice weather  
we played tennis outdoors until last week  
so   that's a pretty good deal  
so do you go to school in provo utah  
do you use nuskin skin care  
they're located   in provo  
do you  
i'm a nuskin person  
yeah  
i sell nuskin too  
i   i am my only  
and best  
not only and best  
but i'm my best customer  
since we're not supposed to talk about this though is there anything more intensive for the eye area than the eye cream  
do you know  
i have that too  
i'm forty two  
i need something  
i need more  
yeah  
i didn't know if there was anything else  
and i use the [celltrex]  
but anyway  
well yes  
nuskin is wonderful  
i think it's a wonderful product  
do you use it  
oh my gosh  
that's great  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's good  
are they good to work for  
that's great  
anyway so we're supposed to be talking about places to go  
and you have not been to europe  
do you go to school  
do you ski  
ski  
you probably ski very well in utah  
uh  
why did you move to utah  
you're going oh you are going to school   at b y u  
is that where b y u is  
okay  
i know some people that went to b y u  
that's great  
pretty good  
pretty pretty down there huh  
so where have you skied  
sure  
sure  
so you're a sophomore   or junior  
you're a junior  
good for you  
what are you studying  
good for you  
you sound like a girl that has it together  
i would just encourage you to do a little traveling though before you get married  
because when you   get married you won't have the money or the time  
so just you know  
don't don't be in any hurry  
you really should go to europe  
i went to europe for six weeks after i graduated from college  
and that was just  
i i mean i could have had that or a down payment on a new car  
and i took the trip  
and  
uh i traveled with a group of sixteen other students  
actually they there was two other graduating seniors besides myself  
and we just had a ball  
we stayed at  
uh six weeks  
yeah  
it was wonderful  
so you should think about doing something like that  
okay  
do we just go ahead  
okay  
uh well we're supposed to talk about vacations  
and uh i'm trying to think of the ones that i've been on that i liked the most  
and probably the one i liked most was hawaii  
yes  
yes  
we went uh six months after we were married  
and we just went to uh two islands  
we went to oahu and kauai  
the big one  
oh  
oh yeah  
it was  
yes  
i enjoyed kauai better too  
oh it was rainy  
rainy  
but you know we don't like to spend the money to go over there and sit on the beach anyway  
so  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that was   that was nice  
uh_huh  
you know i've been to nassau too  
i went on a cruise  
uh_huh  
and uh to tell you the truth i i think i'd rather just go to the island  
well i got sick  
yeah  
i did the first night  
i went   with my sister   just uh a couple years ago  
and and we both the first night just had to leave dinner  
it was bad  
but and then after that it was it got better  
but we just  
it was a four day  
and we were both ready to get off the boat  
yeah  
oh have you  
oh  
wow  
i'll bet it is  
oh  
you haven't been to spain  
oh  
i was born there  
yes  
uh just ten months  
yeah  
so  
no  
no  
and i would like to  
huh  
would you  
now now i don't know if i'd like to go there just from   the   the problems  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that would be nice  
now have you been to yellowstone  
yellowstone  
have you  
uh_huh  
well  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
now i'm just about oh a half hour uh north of salt lake  
so uh it's at  
my husband works in salt lake  
so  
we're real close  
and yeah  
we  
yes  
we we like it  
yeah  
it is  
well we kind of like it  
well do you like to camp those kind of trips  
uh_huh  
oh you like the motels  
oh oh well  
oh did you  
uh_huh  
oh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you want to start  
right  
oh did you get to go to hawaii  
yeah  
we went there for our twenty fifth wedding anniversary  
it's lovely isn't it  
uh_huh  
what islands did you go to  
kauai  
uh_huh  
we went to kauai  
and then we also hit maui  
and then of course uh  
uh the big one  
uh_huh  
with uh the big one i thought was very commercialized  
but the other two were just lovely  
uh_huh  
it was quiet and [restful] and and so beautiful  
it wasn't commercialized  
yeah  
was it  
that's right  
well it wasn't real rainy  
we had a few showers but uh nothing that really got in the way with anything and just very brief ones  
and and when uh  
now we went to nassau  
and my husband liked it better than he did hawaii  
uh_huh  
yeah  
he really did  
i don't know why  
you know he didn't like oahu at all  
he thought   he thought [honolulu] was just horrible you know   although we went to that [polynesian] village  
did you go there  
that was wonderful  
and we both enjoyed it   very much  
have you  
oh neat  
yeah  
uh our son and daughter in law just uh they got married last january and they won a cruise  
and i know they didn't like it  
now we have several friends that uh have been on and just love them  
but james and i like  
i don't know  
i think we would get bored on the boat all the time  
oh did you  
ooh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
were you  
well i think if we ever go it will only be for a three day  
now we've been real lucky  
we've been to europe twice  
yeah  
we went the first time we went to london europe and touched a little bit of [scotland]  
and second time we went to munich germany and were there a week and loved germany  
it   is just absolutely gorgeous   with the mountains  
and we were there in the fall before the snows you know started  
and it was wonderful  
it uh   it was just it was marvelous  
and we would love to go back there  
and we'd love to go back to london  
no  
have not been to spain  
were you  
how old were you when you left  
oh ten months  
uh_huh  
have you ever got to go back  
would you  
my uh my sister  
we went with them to germany  
and uh she would like to go to spain  
i'm not sure whether i would like to or not  
and uh i would like to go to ireland  
uh_huh  
well the  
there is  
uh_huh  
is is a little scary  
but i would still like to see it  
i'd like to see uh italy  
i would love to go there  
and course there is a lot of places in the united states i still want to come you know go to  
uh  
yes  
yes  
we have been there  
we i was there as a child and then we we went to california and came back through yellowstone with our kids  
and they loved it  
i was in utah in salt lake city when i was a uh youngster  
so uh you know i've touched on that  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
now that's a pretty city  
very clean   you know  
utah is a pretty state from what i remember of it  
uh_huh  
we  
no  
we used to  
we used to camp a lot with our  
kids   and uh but now we like things like the regency [hyatt]  
we like the motels  
yes  
we have we've gone past the camping stage  
we lived in [chattanooga] tennessee for two years  
and we did a lot of camping out there in the [smokeys]  
and it was beautiful  
and our kids loved it and everything  
and then we moved to uh uh the dallas area  
and uh it's hot down here  
and camping is not near as much fun  
and uh so and then the kids were getting older and and were involved in activities so the camping sort of went by the wayside   and uh although our son loves to fish  
and uh and our daughter and her husband are talking now about starting camping with their boys now that they have gotten older  
okay  
we're supposed to talk about vacations  
well uh i haven't been to many places  
but i have a opportunity to go to uh paris france uh with uh with my friend in april  
she is her uh her family you know lives there  
and she's only been there once  
her grandmother lives there  
so i'm hoping to i'm praying i get to go uh  
yeah  
it's it will be probably the most exciting place i'll ever get to go  
have you ever been to uh like new mexico  
oh  
i was curious  
i was just wondering what it was like  
[tahiti]  
[tahiti]  
oh  
oh haiti  
where is that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
so what did you do when you were in europe  
uh_huh  
what did you do on the farm  
are you just kind of sight just kind of uh  
um  
um  
paris  
yeah  
uh two weeks  
last time she stayed two months  
but we're only going to stay two weeks  
so  
we're going to take a cooking class there  
so that might be fun  
cooking class you know  
french cooking  
yeah  
museums you know  
go to museums and  
do you go to museums in europe  
um  
um that's neat  
hey  
what about  
have you ever been to hawaii  
no  
no  
i'm wanting to go there  
oh where have i gone that's anywhere  
uh  
right  
so uh well uh what kind of vacations do you like  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
uh no actually  
why have you  
oh okay  
no uh  
i have been to europe once and to haiti and uh  
yeah  
no  
no  
haiti  
right  
it's uh well it's in the caribbean  
and it's the western half of an island  
with the eastern half that's the [dominican] republic  
and i was down there with a program from the college that i went to where we would just spend like three months in a foreign country most of them third world countries   and study the language and then do a little service project  
so yeah  
that turned out to be a really good experience for me  
uh well see i went there when i was in high school actually  
and i mostly went to germany and visited some friends of my family and uh hung out with them worked a bit on one of their farms and also went to a youth camp  
uh uh uh well not that much  
just uh  
right  
i mean i wasn't a great asset to them or anything  
but i you know drove a tractor helped them weed beets and that sort of thing  
and uh yep  
and i went to a youth camp that included working at an old people's home  
and that was pretty interesting  
and while i was there i visited my aunt and uncle who were uh staying for their vacation in france in [nantes] which is on the west coast like right across from england  
uh so uh where in france are you  
right  
paris  
and uh um how long do you plan to be going for  
uh_huh  
great  
and uh  
a what  
oh great  
and uh what else are you planning to do if anything  
uh_huh  
yeah um  
uh actually no  
i don't think i went to any of them  
uh the closest thing i did was go to some like uh restored [castles] and stuff  
that there is some on that west coast of france  
and i went to a [vineyard] or two in germany  
yeah  
that was nice  
uh um but so uh  
uh no  
i haven't  
have you  
okay  
well uh well  
where have you gone first  
yeah  
i mean  
what vacations have you been on that you like  
right  
uh_huh  
so you  
most of yours is kind of driving  
and  
um how how far do you usually end end up driving just  
now where you're from where   oh wisconsin  
okay  
yeah  
i have a brother in minnesota that used to live in wisconsin  
so yeah  
that's quite a ways  
i've uh  
we went to california this last year   and uh liked it  
but it was too crowded  
walt disney world and other places it's just the wrong time of the year to go  
and uh course uh you get in any of those tourist traps   and everything's uh outrageously priced  
and uh kind of  
you wonder if they're it's really worth it to pay uh thirty five dollars or forty dollars just to get in  
but   there's lots of fun places to see um  
i think the scenery kind of  
that's something do to you like to get up in mountains  
or  
do you have any mountains nearby  
pretty flat isn't it  
um i think uh the biggest limitation is a lot just time and money isn't it  
what vacation have you enjoyed the most  
what is it  
okay  
uh_huh  
probably a city in itself kind of like huh  
summer place  
how far away is it  
huh  
okay  
sure  
sure  
right  
well and you can probably  
you're in a climate that's kind of humid  
so you have probably a lot of green and lot of real pretty things  
our our [climate's] real dry  
and you have to kind of get up into the mountains to get much of the [greenery]  
most of most most of the [land's] pretty brown  
you don't have as much of the [greenery] like you have  
uh idaho is where i live  
and uh  
yes  
it's by uh  
i have a little baby thinks he needs to cry now that i'm on the phone  
it's by um boise  
you ever heard of boise  
and uh it's fine  
it's nice  
it's uh lot different kind of  
i lived in indiana for a while  
and it's a real different uh land and scenery than there  
it's kind of fun to have a little bit diversity and   things like that  
i think uh there's a lot of places uh-oh down even in southern utah the [canyons] canyon lands and bryce canyon  
and oh boy they're gorgeous  
those are kind of fun places  
we usually go over to bear lake in the summer which is kind of on the border of idaho and utah  
and the lake goes on forever  
and that's real pretty over there too  
but i think i'm kind of a summer [vacationer]  
right  
right  
where'd you  
um well i really enjoyed um  
i went to [mackinaw] island   a few years back  
it's in the middle of michigan  
and   so that was nice  
i like um driving to different cities because of the scenery  
so that was nice  
yeah  
we've i've been all over the states except for pretty much east  
um it's very pretty driving like um up north in wisconsin too  
um the furthest i drove was probably texas  
and then i've taken a train before to california  
kenosha wisconsin  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
it is  
uh_huh  
um  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh um probably uh when we go to wisconsin  
um it's pretty fun  
there's a lot to do up there  
it's pretty busy though  
you have to like crowds you know  
um oh it's a like a huge amusement park   um they have water slides  
and it's just a big big tourist attraction  
the downtown is all like little shops and candy shops  
and it's it's really neat  
i don't think uh hardly anybody lives there  
because it's just kind of like you know tourists  
yeah  
it's mostly a a summer summer place  
um from kenosha it's about three hours  
it's about a hour away from madison  
yeah  
so   that's nice  
it's it's a pretty ride up there too  
i really like the city [wausau] in wisconsin  
it's really pretty  
it's nice out there  
oh i like all the nature things there are to look at you know  
where is that  
oh  
where's that  
okay  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
oh yeah  
me too uh  
me too  
unless i'm going somewhere warm   for the winter  
yeah  
that'd be nice  
any vacations recently that you would highly recommend  
oh really  
oh wow  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh what what has been your favorite trip do you think  
really  
better than europe  
oh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well uh i have been to canada several times  
but uh that is about it for me  
i i am from denver  
and so uh growing up uh we would spend most of our vacations right there in colorado  
uh my family is uh uh real into camping and four wheeling  
and so uh several  
i i think maybe uh four summers in a row uh we spent uh our vacation time in the summer uh four wheeling through uh portions of uh the southern half of colorado  
and and uh every time uh my mother had uh uh  
i have two other sisters  
and my mother had us uh do some studying of the the area which we going to visit  
and then we had to write uh   reports reports about it during during our vacation which which was really fun  
it was really fun  
we we each got to write little books  
uh   and uh it had sparked an interest that uh of mine  
uh my fiancee is a very very good photographer  
that is what she had originally gone to school to do was photography  
and uh i i am close to receiving my english degree uh as as well as my my graduate degree  
so so i uh uh we have thought very seriously of trying to uh incorporate travel into and writing a book about uh some portion of travel uh  
so we are hoping soon uh not soon maybe within the next ten years to get to to take a trip over from uh over to europe and take uh a trip from the northern portion of france   uh down to the southern tip of spain uh and follow  
it is kind of a backward s shape uh trail that the [pilgrims] use to take uh in in uh back in the medieval times uh to see the [relics] uh in uh southern spain   and in italy  
and so we would like to take pictures of the [gothic] and [romanesque] [monasteries] and uh just take that journey all the way down   and then right a book about it  
yeah  
it would be  
uh it it is our big dream  
oh uh  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
you said that you have been to england several times  
i wonder have you ever been to a uh a small town uh  
well it is actually about thirty minutes from salisbury  
it is called uh [bemerton]  
okay  
oh okay  
alright  
yeah  
uh uh the reason i am curious i uh  
the other place i would like to visit uh  
well that is like my favorite hobby  
so yeah  
i would travel everywhere  
and i have been all over europe and a lot of the united states   and hawaii  
and   so when i can that is what i do  
well i am not sure  
uh i guess hawaii is one of my favorite places  
yeah  
well no that is exciting  
you know i have been several times  
so after the first time it is like anywhere  
you know it loses that [newness]  
but yeah  
i love it  
i love to go over to europe  
i do  
and mostly i travel through germany and switzerland  
and we have good friends in england  
so   i have been there quite a bit  
and i just love it all  
i love to look at the different people and the different cultures and   to see how different they are from things are from the way we do them   the most interesting part more than the museums and things like that  
so how about you  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that would be quite a project  
yeah  
well it would be a lot fun  
you know there is good and there is bad  
and my experience in italy was not my favorite for sure  
but   well i flew into [milan]  
my daughter is uh a twirling champion  
and she had to perform over there and in [turin]  
and so we had to fly into [milan]  
and we got on the subway after so much trouble because the italians even if they speak english they do not want to let you know  
and they gave us all the wrong directions  
and there were just two of us  
at the airport they put us on the wrong bus  
finally we saw a policeman  
he put us on the subway  
we sat there uh  
we did not know italian  
we looked at each other  
we said things like spaghetti   you know things like that  
we finally followed some kids who told us where to get off  
we followed these kids with uh gym bags  
and we figured that must be the sports arena  
and we lucked out  
and then when we needed to go to the bathroom there was nothing but a whole in the ground  
i mean it was so   it was kind of a nightmare  
but that was our experience  
and i guess all of italy is not like that  
but where we were it certainly was  
and the hotel that we stayed in  
we stayed with our english friends their team in the hotel  
and it was beautiful  
it was very modern  
but it was very far away on a bus  
so you know it was it was really uh it was interesting  
you always learn something  
and you always have a fun experience  
so it is great you know  
uh_huh  
no  
i have not huh_uh  
our friends live like an hour outside of england like ash around there  
so uh_huh  
okay  
and i've pressed the button  
you haven't been to too many places  
well okay  
i have been to hawaii  
it is beautiful  
well there is there is a lot of japanese over there  
and they are  
uh_huh  
uh well yeah  
there is  
it is commercialized  
but there is still a lot of beautiful places to go and see   you know   on all of the islands you know  
i don't think i have enough  
oahu naturally has got more people on it than the other islands  
but it is still beautiful  
you have got to see at least once  
so  
uh i like maui  
yeah  
well i like it because the beach is nice and white  
and you know it is like oahu  
you can go over there and lay on the beach  
and it is really nice   where the island of hawaii you can't really lay on the beach over there  
but uh kauai  
i mean the beaches are nice  
but i don't know just not nice as maui  
and then uh where where have you been  
oh you have  
oh  
how long ago  
huh  
okay  
oh yeah  
i know where that is at   because i use to live in oakland  
so  
yeah  
right  
right  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
did you go on the cable cars and everything  
yeah  
isn't that fun  
oh yeah  
up by napa  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
isn't that pretty  
i love it down there  
uh_huh  
oh the weather  
huh  
well i have also been to the [carribean]  
well i uh have been there a couple of times  
i went on a cruise  
the last time i went i went with my two sisters  
and it was over christmas time  
and we really had a good time  
well they they had this cruise director dress up like santa claus  
and we went to the beach  
and they had put a christmas tree on the beach   decorated it up  
it was it was a lot of fun  
so  
oh yeah  
yeah  
because you don't have to worry about [unpacking] or anything like that you know  
you put your clothes in your room  
oh you will have to go on one  
no  
i mean there was  
some people did uh on that last cruise that we took because they was having a storm come in  
but that is unusual  
uh one of my sisters got sick  
but the other one didn't  
and i didn't   you know  
but uh it is really nice  
and they they just do so many things for you you know to make you enjoy the trip and everything  
so you will have to do that once  
i want to go on another one  
but i want to go to alaska  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
right  
oh i think i would like to too  
i keep hoping to win the lottery where i can do all these things you know  
okay  
let me tell you  
i haven't been too many places  
no  
no  
i haven't  
see now that is where i want to go  
that is where i have always wanted to go  
i have never been there  
i know  
is it is it uh  
i had an aunt that lived there  
and she couldn't stand it any more  
she moved out because she said the whole island was uh you know being taken over by the japanese  
yeah  
and she uh also told me that  
well not her uh necessarily other people that have been there have said that it is too commercialized  
is it  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
oh well i will you know  
eventually  
well what is the most uh you know the nicest island  
maui  
i think that is what usually people uh   say they do they like the best  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i have been to california  
i've been to san francisco  
i loved it  
i absolutely loved it  
yeah  
and uh  
oh uh eighty six  
my sister lives out there  
my sister lives in piedmont  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh well that is right near piedmont  
yeah  
that is like a suburb or something whatever  
oh yeah  
okay  
well she was in [berkley] also  
and she  
lets see i went when she was uh was living  
well when i went out there she was in uh now i can't oh lafayette  
she was living in lafayette  
and then they moved to piedmont  
so i uh i haven't seen uh you know her house in piedmont  
but but i loved san francisco  
i would like to go back  
oh yeah  
went to [alcatraz]  
you know we did the whole bit  
and then we went to the wine country  
yeah  
oh beautiful  
and we went to carmel  
and we took the eighteen mile drive  
oh it is beautiful  
that is really beautiful  
my girlfriend was down there a few months ago  
first time she has been down there  
and they wanted to take that drive  
and they had closed the whole road because of uh uh fog  
yeah  
so they never got to do that  
oh i haven't been there either  
you name it i haven't been there  
uh_huh  
oh that is nice  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's nice  
is uh a cruise nicer than uh if you just go on a regular uh you know to a hotel  
it is  
i have heard it is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you don't get seasick  
that is what i am afraid of  
no  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
oh yes  
now someone i know was on a cruise to alaska  
was it to alaska  
yeah  
i am pretty sure  
that is right my [hairdresser]  
she went last year  
she said she went on a cruise  
and i was thinking you know cruise i am thinking  
so on  
and she is laying on the beach  
and i said well you are not very tan for someone who has been on a cruise  
she said we went to alaska  
and uh that that i would like to go  
well hawaii is my uh is number one  
i would also like to go to australia  
and get a  
yeah  
oh well see i am am just in the publisher's clearing house and the reader's digest because we don't uh  
right now the lottery here  
well what kind of vacations do you like to take  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
where have you gone there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i've been over there too  
i even  
let's see um  
mostly germany and france  
i lived in france for a year and a half  
so   i was able  
but i once when i had a chance in france to go on vacation instead of [travelling] around france i went to germany  
because uh i've got relatives there  
and i just   like it there  
so but um [austria] i found really pretty   and switzerland  
yeah  
and i i lived in the [alps] in france  
so i   anything in the mountains over there i just love  
then i finally made it to england too uh on my way home um  
i lived in africa actually  
and on my way home from there  
yeah  
yeah  
so um and you always have to go out fly through or unless you fly from nairobi you have to fly through um uh europe on your way home  
so i went to england  
and i really liked it there too  
i know  
it's true  
that's the one thing  
yeah  
yeah  
actually now you can get some really good deals flying over  
but it's  
once you're there you still have to spend money   unless you know people you know  
uh_huh  
that helps a lot  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i haven't  
i've been i've  
most of my vacationing in the u s has been on the west coast  
or this summer i went to colorado  
and uh i'd love to go to the east coast during the fall  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i haven't been there anywhere on the east coast  
i think tennessee has been the furthest east i've been  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so the type of vacation you'd like um  
like would you go over and spend a lot of time in one place or travel to whole bunch of different places in one week  
yeah  
mainly probably because you want to see everything  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
well i liked it  
i was working in cameroon africa  
and it's not a it's not a place for tourists  
i mean they're not used to having tourists there  
so   it's  
you're kind of roughing it  
but um i liked it  
i liked it  
the people there are just very very friendly  
and  
um i was working with an organization that does bible translation  
so i was doing [linguistic] work actually [travelling] around finding out about languages and   uh what they call survey work  
find out where the languages are  
so i travelled a lot around the country and met a lot of people  
um  
yeah  
i enjoyed it  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
my cousin came over while i was there  
and she came to cameroon  
and then she went over to nairobi and took a [safari] around   you know close to nairobi in [kenya]  
so she'd always dreamed of doing that too  
so yeah  
so is there any place you would try to talk me into going to  
it sounds like we've been to some of the same places  
well we've uh we've been fortunate enough to take a couple of trips over to europe  
so   so i i guess those are the types i like  
we've really enjoyed them  
we've gone to um germany switzerland [austria] ireland and england  
we've been to germany twice  
but um i guess my favorite is probably switzerland and ireland  
uh_huh  
where have you been  
uh_huh  
oh how neat  
uh_huh  
oh that's neat  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh how neat  
oh yeah  
you lived in africa  
oh my goodness  
wow  
uh_huh  
it's so expensive over there  
it really is  
it just it's it's  
i love to go over there  
but it's so darn expensive   to go over  
yeah  
oh i know  
just  
right  
then you can stay with them  
and   yeah  
yeah  
you know there's a lot of places in the states that we haven't even gone  
you know i'd like to go to hawaii some time  
and   and uh we made it  
we've we've at least gone to the grand canyon and [niagara] falls  
so  
feel like we've accomplished a little bit here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the oh the  
it's oh  
i've always wanted to go there  
i've seen pictures  
and and   it looks gorgeous  
we um we made a trip up the east coast  
it was uh in the summer  
and it really is pretty  
it's uh  
both [coasts] are really pretty  
but um i love the [carolinas]  
it's just gorgeous over there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well you'll just have to plan a vacation some time   and and go over there  
yeah  
but there's you know there's a lot to see here  
but i just love going over to europe because it's so their way of life is just so different than ours  
you know we're so fast paced here  
and over there you know every time we'd go and and eat dinner or lunch or whatever we'd always have to ask for the check   you know  
they're so [leisurely] over there  
and it's kind of nice to to have that  
well usually a bunch of different places  
right  
see as much as   you can while you're there  
yeah  
how did you like africa  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what type of work  
oh okay  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's neat  
i've i've always um i've talked to people who have been to africa  
and they  
and then of course when that movie out of africa came out  
um but i've always thought it would be neat to go on a [safari] over there  
uh_huh  
oh how neat  
yeah  
that's great  
uh  
yeah  
it does  
well i don't know um i i like to sail and my husband's a camper um but i've never been camping in eleven years of marriage so that tells you something
camping is not my bag no
is that your bag
oh my
okay
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well we do that to yes
uh i could tell you one place i could probably convince you to go to have you ever heard of the british virgin islands
not the u s
but the british yeah
you have
and and peter island and you've been there
yeah
you need to you need to go there
uh_huh
[tortola] that's okay
yeah
you uh
it's it's
i mean it really is
have you ever been to hawaii or bahamas
or
yeah
what you what you never want to do is go back there
and you don't even want to bother going to the u s side you just want to go straight in to the british virgin islands it's wonderful
yeah
i mean it's the [natives] are friendly um the water is even more than you'd think um
and i mean if you could talk yourself into i don't know if you like boats are not
but they sail tall ships down there that are that are like being on a regular cruise
right
right
yeah
um where else
i'm trying to think what what are some of your favorite vacation spots
i've never been there
i've been to the is it
i think a long time ago when we were going to go there
they were having some trouble in they they were having some unrest among the [civilians] uh_huh
yeah
i think that's
is that worth going to
now we lived in uh the the upper mid west for a while before we were in texas
and then we left
and then uh we came back with my husband's job about eight months ago
and when we lived in the up the mid west um we were talking about wouldn't it be nice
in the winter to be able to just fly to mexico
um but one thing we never did was do that or go to places like puerto [vallerta] uh_huh
you can get the taste of mexico without getting into a lot of trouble
in terms of the water the food
and you're still like in southern california essentially
i mean i know you're not
but you know
uh_huh
that's nice to hear
yeah
uh_huh
family yeah
and i've never been to either of those
uh_huh
isn't that a shame
yeah
see that's nice to hear yeah
um one place
we like is northern california napa valley
have you ever been out there
oh you do you go to [silicone] valley
oh okay
yeah
i can say that because uh we haven't been
i mean that was like once you know five years ago or something
but um i used to work in a place called e d s and i know i used to go a little bit more than i wanted to to sacramento and after a while
it just
or l a
and it wasn't fun anymore
yeah
i mean it's um
every other week
well look at it this way you have great frequent [flyers] to to to the vacation spots
one place you might consider is um are you native texan
and i mean or have you traveled around the mid the united states a lot
or
oh okay
are you a pilot or something
uh_huh
not anymore
um i was going to say one place my husband's been trying to get me i probably wouldn't camp
but i would stay in queen [victoria's] i think that's the name of it
but [vance] national park in canada
yeah
have you ever been up there
that's
yeah
a place
i mean that's
i mean i see pictures
i mean that's to us would be god's country
uh_huh
i've been up there
i i mean i like canada
i we where we came from when we came back here was minnesota and uh it's beautiful
it's just too darn cold
do you
what do you do if you don't mind me asking
i'm not supposed to
i i'm not supposed to ask this kind of
but what do you do
oh you are my he's an engineer too
but he doesn't do that
that's beautiful
uh_huh
uh_huh
in vermont you mean
uh_huh
you mean changing from the you mean changing into green
or
yeah
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
the fall
you mean
yeah
that's okay
what month is what time of of of what time of the fall is a good time to go to vermont
yeah
sure
really
because we talked about uh they offer bread bed and breakfast bicycle tours that kind of thing
hiking tours and that's kind of my outdoors type you know hike
and then you can stay somewhere where there's a nice fireplace and
yeah
gee that's nice
well what's a good bed and breakfast in vermont
yeah
by name
yeah
well what's a good what's like a good town to go to then
uh_huh
burlington
no
that's that's a city yeah
no [bennington] no
that's in
[waterville] okay
[middlebury] i've heard of that
okay
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
see
see we i mean if new england if the um economic situation were different
we probably would have gone there instead of coming back to dallas
um because the [topography] here
i don't know how you feel about texas
right
it's just not
i mean in general
it's got the different [terrains] but i just don't think it's a a beautiful state
yeah
i'm originally from pennsylvania
now there's a pretty state
um and [allegheny] mountains
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh my goodness
you really
yeah
what do you do sell airplane parts now if you engineer them or what
i'm kind of envious of somebody that gets to travel that much
but it's like anything else
it's not all it's cracked up to be when you're in a [suitcase] that often
yeah
yeah
and overseas do you go overseas
i mean we've never been to europe at all
have you have you been to eastern europe
germany
uh_huh
if you were taking an airline overseas is [lufthansa] a good airline is it
how about [yugoslavian] airlines
i mean when you when you've been overseas are most people receptive to americans
that's something we're considering here
of what
that you have too much on you or something or
uh_huh
like i'm in journalism i wouldn't walk around opening my big mouth saying that's what i do for a living
low key
yeah
that's a good idea
yeah
that's something we're pursuing we're thinking about
oh goodness
uh_huh
hello
well that's okay
she wants to talk about vacations
that's what it is
really
see now european travel i mean so you're
i mean you sound like a a fellow that knows
i mean is it still safe to go though
did they mention our topic
okay
right
anything anything in the area of types of vacations you've been on lately you've really enjoyed
uh_huh
well i'm a lot the same way we uh i was raised well west virginia
but also virginia
and i spent an awful a lot of time on the virginia beach area
and i sort of love the water
i've always loved the ocean
so i enjoy going to the beaches myself as far as a favorite beach um probably myrtle beach is as as more of a younger person
i haven't been there for years
i'd like to go back and see how it has changed
but i enjoy myrtle beach i enjoy padre island right here in texas
but i enjoy pretty much any beaches
well i haven't been
right
haven't been for twenty years myself
but one of these days i'll go back and see how nice
it is
i'm sure it's just as nice as ever as a as a high [schooler] and a college kid it was a great place to go
it was the big weekend place
and things like that
especially in the summer the place to go in the summer to get a you know a summer job and to spend your dollars
and uh have fun and everything
no
i haven't
oh i'll bet it is
what do you do
what do you do while you're there
uh_huh
right
yeah
my wife would probably enjoy joy we'd probably enjoy that also are you catholic
okay
we're we're catholics
so we'd we'd definitely enjoy all the old churches right
uh_huh
oh no kidding
we'll have to maybe give that a try sometime
if you're a a water person my wife still says the best vacation we ever went on with our kids
and as a family was we went to one of the jack [tarr] [villages] in the caribbean
and we went to one the one located at puerto [plotta] and you know that's the most reasonable vacation we were ever on
we just opened the paper one morning four or five years ago
and it said round trip all included seven days hotel food all you could drink just every party everything
it was almost like a cruise
but uh it was like five ninety nine so we said let's do it
so we packed up everyone four of us
plus my son's girlfriend we all went and it's probably not
like i said not only the most reasonable vacation we were ever on and everything was paid for it was just glorious i mean the water was fantastic you they had pools they had beaches people were so [courteous] the lodging was fantastic the food was just like being on a cruise ship everything from baked alaska right on down and all this for five hundred and ninety nine dollars
oh it is unbelievable
and we keep saying that one of these days our kids are getting older now they're in college
and uh be getting married and whatever
so we doubt we'll ever have the opportunity to go back with our with our kids
but but we're certainly going back
but that's probably one place that we really enjoyed
that included everything
[airfare] lodging every meal
i mean if you were a heavy drinker you could sit there and drink twenty five or thirty drinks a day or whatever you wanted
i mean just it was everything
and it was just a a caribbean type of surrounding very tropical just uh entertainment every night
i don't know if you've ever been a cruise ship or not
but it was exactly like being on a cruise ship
um well we just moved here and um the only places we've gone to for a short like one day vacation was we went to lake [macbride] which is like two or three miles north of iowa city
and it's like a big park and um they have a beach side and a lake side and so just depends on what type of uh you know water
i guess you're used to
and i'm used to the beach
so we went to the beach side because i'm really from california
well we moved to california and then i went to school in utah
and i got married in utah
and then we um lived there for a little while and then we came to iowa
uh santa [anna] it's near anaheim disneyland
yeah
it's really close to there we see the fireworks from our upstairs window
oh
uh_huh
at long beach
uh_huh
well utah actually is uh one of the dryer states
but it actually has some really nice scenery and um have you heard of bryce canyon or [zion] national park
yeah
and um they have a lot of good skiing up there
and they have um park city
and um what else do they have over there
i don't really ski
but i just have heard that it's really good skiing over there
um we went there for a conference we went to
we stayed in houston for a couple of days
and then we visited a cousin in dallas just for a day you know
we went to the southfork flea market or the one in southfork or you know what i mean
uh_huh
um we've only been to the east coast like once
no
oh
yeah
i think that would be a neat place to visit because i had a cousin who went to school at at uh [brandeis]
and he was talking about how it was pretty there and that's where he's want to grow um not grow
but live there
and he live in
new york
um he was going to school in massachusetts
and he wanted to stay on the east coast because of the surroundings and the historical part of it
oh well that's a place where we have never been to
but would like to go to because you know just all the historical things
and oh is it humid there
oh huh
um another
i guess place to vacation is um we travelled up the california coast
and we went and visited [hearst] castle and was going to go in up you know one oh one and things like that
and it's really pretty up there because you're right on the coast
oh
yeah
just a little bit beyond
and then um we had to take the five the rest of the way up because car trouble
but our destination was washington and when we got up to washington we thought it was really pretty
because all the trees line the highways
and that part is in oregon too
no
we didn't have time
but that we've seen pictures of it
i think that'd be nice to go there
wow
but yeah
i wish we could go and see that sometime
um let's see well close by um iowa is a place called [nauvoo] that's in illinois
and uh [nauvoo]
well i've been to europe uh england and france uh specifically
i like those
but uh my favorite things to do
i think are going skiing in the winter
utah colorado
uh et cetera
that was a single about a ten day swing through uh
maybe six in england and four in france
it was great
yes
i had my son with me uh
my sixteen year old son
and so that was that was a good experience for him to see some of the things
he had studied and so forth
no
it was it was well yeah
it was as it was happening
actually
kind of uh it was it was pretty close to that time
but we weren't over in that part of the world
so it wasn't really uh something that we got a lot of of input into but how about yourself
where do you where do you like to go to vacation
oh okay
you got some great camping areas in your area there close
i'm a i'm a boy scout leader
so i'm out backpacking camping quite a bit too
i've done uh mountains in new mexico and colorado
but i never have
gotten up into idaho and wyoming
and those parts of utah that are so pretty
and no
i would like to
uh_huh
yeah
you just fly into denver or salt lake or somewhere and then rent a car and go the rest of the way
yes
usually with uh just whoever uh the whole office is going skiing
i'm taking my my whole office
in february to [crested] [butte]
and then in a week mom and i agreed to [chaperon] my son's school trip to [vale] with about fifty five young people and five adults
and then that'll be five days in march
but uh sometimes i've taken my girl friend and gone
like last winter i did that
and so planned it myself
and uh arranged for a private uh residence in um england through a guy that we knew that had a flat there
and then uh the travel agent downstairs helped me with a a lodging place in paris
and then we kind of booked some other things on our own
that was so it was sort of a piece meal thing
yeah
i think so
it depend on where i was going
i had good inside information about where i was headed and so i knew kind of what i was getting into but if if i were to strike out to a part of the world
i didn't know anything about
i i might not do it all on my own
yeah
yeah
we kind of had a list going of things
and we did some trade offs and we saw most of what we wanted to see
we had a list of far more than we could possibly see
so we kind of had to pick and choose a little bit
yeah
and sometimes you wound up staying longer at one place than than another
oh sure
but if you don't like to fly then
well uh i one place i haven't done is go somewhere like a cruise
in in a warm climate or or down into a tropical place for a beach
well when we were kids
we went to uh mexico a couple of times
and we went to [carlsbad] [caverns] and uh [alamo]
and oklahoma
and since then i've gone to uh well i went to mexico on one trip and i went to lake caddo and um
uh no
nothing like that
uh_huh
no
i don't think so
because because uh i like to fish
and i camp out and stuff like that
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
uh_huh
is that in the spring is that this summer
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
and the water's real clear down there
yeah
um no
just to galveston
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
did you ever go to yosemite that's pretty isn't it
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
and then in in colorado it's mostly streams and they've dammed up some of them now
so you know
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
and northern california really is out in the [boondocks]
isn't it
uh_huh
but you fly in to portland then
oh
they have a airport there
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
they have a they have a coast highway there
don't they
or
uh_huh
uh_huh
how far is it from [tahoe] huh
uh_huh
master the mountains too
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
and around here the uh the possum kingdom is about the the closest place
yeah
they have real clear water and plants
it's uh near um well it's it's kind of near abilene but it's it's uh about halfway in between here and and abilene it's uh you if you know where albany is
and uh it's about maybe an hour west of [weatherford] out there west of fort worth
it's a big it's on the brazos river they dammed up the brazos river
and it's beautiful
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i think so
yeah
nice talking to
yes
hot springs arkansas
oh it's beautiful
in fact we purchased land up there
uh_huh
yeah
it's it's well it's not really time share
it's just a lot
it's really pretty up there in a place called hot springs village it
it's it's really nice
yeah
something like that
well we got three nights and four days up there
so we went it was a nice way to get away
oh
what a deal
no
that's the way to do it you know
might as well
i know we we really liked hot springs just because we neither of us had ever been there
and it was it's a pretty town
it's full of
i was going to say full of retirees and full of nursing homes and funeral homes
but well
it's still a beautiful area
well i wasn't born in texas
but i moved here when i was six months
so
yes
i i consider myself
almost a true texan
um
oh that that would be nice
oh
yeah
that's that's the kind of vacations i like to do
what is what kind of a cost do they have uh with that
uh_huh
um
you're kidding
oh that'd be wonderful
we got to get there first
oh okay
real expensive there
um
yeah
and it's just through the local through the y m c a oh okay
oh
yeah
because we're in the the garland y
so that would well yeah
we have a two year old and a four year old
well yeah
colorado colorado being a resort place i can kind of understand that
but that's
i love mountains
i went to utah one time
and i was just in heaven
we got off the plane at the air force base
and i was just
yeah
ooh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
oh
and you're going
we're like in civilization here
we're not out in the country
how funny
oh
oh no
but they do have horse races at the oklahoma track
i don't know about that
i'm sure they do with with the age group that's there
i would imagine they do
but i know they have horse tracks and they weren't running while we were there in september
but they doing [simulcasts] with louisiana downs so they you if you want to bet
and that did draw a big crowd you could bet there year around
uh_huh
yes
no
at the tracks
they they they run
well yeah
but legally they the horses run there from like february to april
so we're planning to be back the middle of february
like i want to go back
but it's it's in the mountains and i really like mountains
i keep my husband had never been outside of texas until he and i got married
and it was like let's go to let's you know let's go to florida
and we had a friends over there and that's a pretty area too
we've been to orlando a couple of times not to go to disney world
but just to go and do other stuff that's there
what is where is it
oh
yeah
i i'm a texan
i have a problem with oklahoma
well this is true [robber's] cave state park
yeah
see that's
my parents go to
they have
what was the last vacation you went on anyway
uh_huh
oh that is a long trip with four kids in the car
yeah
uh that sort of a trip can can be kind of long
just by yourself
well that works out
uh yeah
so far about as far east as i have gone uh christmas about five years ago up to uh minneapolis
uh flew up and then drove back
well uh the weather was wonderful
the roads were fine
uh the car i was driving back was a problem though
it kept wanting to fall apart
basically i was bringing it back for the sons of a i was renting from
uh because one son living up there wanted it wanted it rebuilt uh restored and the son back here was going to do it
but couldn't get loose for a couple of few days to go up and get it
so
oh that was in uh may and the weather was wonderful
yeah
i uh flew up and it was the first time i have flown and uh flew up just above high thunderstorms that stretch from texas at least up into uh the great lake area
oh yeah
yeah
we got to watch
i got to watch uh thunderstorms from the other side for once it is a unique experience
yeah
the lightening from the top side is a unique experience
i always enjoyed watching it from the bottom side
but it seemed more fun that the top
uh most of our vacations uh have been you know camping trips of one sort or another
and uh just going home to see family
i uh well actually i am at a pay phone at the post office
uh no
i do have one child
he is about twelve weeks old twelve and half weeks old now
why
thank you
yeah
yeah
from the looks of things
my wife and i are both in school
the next trip is probably going to be next christmas uh several of my [siblings] have decided that it has been too long since we were home for christmas
uh west virginia
uh that is home for me
uh i met her down here
so
her home town is only about an hour and half drive away
but uh i am a thousand miles from home
so they are support to uh they are trying to arrange to get us train tickets uh to go home
the three of us
yeah
yeah
i have been through the northwest corner of georgia
that has been it uh that is pretty much in route between here and home
so there is about a nine mile stretch of interstate fifty nine that cuts through the northwest corner of georgia
yeah
yeah
[kudzu] that stuff is an absolute [blight] on humanity it seems
it is pretty
it it was [genetically] engineered that is the southern version of what they have go up north called [multiflora] rose which is also engineered and it is almost indestructible
i mean you about have to expose you know the first four feet of soil to uh high levels of [radiation] to kill it off
it is the stuff is incredible durable
yeah
its
well you see that stuff will actually take over everything
and literally kill off large old trees if it gets the chance
so most of the states in the southeast have uh spraying programs where they they go in with [defoliants] and try and kill it off
here in the [hattiesburg] area
no
not yet
apparently it is moving this direction
actually up in the delta you know four or five hours drive north along the mississippi river
they have got it there too
but right now it hasn't really hit the uh the the general area around here
uh one trip i use to be an auto mechanic
right
right
i have been well i go quite a bit
i travel about forty percent of my time
but my vacations my favorite spot is las vegas
yeah
really
i i any particular reason you're not into gambling
or
i see
oh really
france
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
uh my in laws have
and i i stay [steer] away from boats as much as possible
because i can't take
really
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
i yes
everything i see that they brought back it
i i definitely agree
uh_huh
really
oh yes
yes
i it's it cruises from what i understand are are really the way to go and some someday i will convince my or convince myself that i can handle it
and i will surprise my wife and and book a cruise
uh i much definitely prefer warmer climates than alaska
so i would probably head for the caribbean
uh_huh
i've used those right
uh_huh
interesting i never i really never thought of that
it's good to know
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
this is one spot you know being in ohio the new england states are not that far
uh that is one thing that really has not interested us we do like the [virginias] the [carolinas]
carolina
oh yes
several times
yeah
and uh we next week
we're leaving for new orleans and i i i do prefer the warmer the warmer
but uh
and i loved hawaii
uh we had bought
really
it it's it's uh it's just beautiful
i just i would be very happen staying in hawaii becoming a [beachcomber] when i retire
which isn't too far off
it's it's something i might want to consider but uh
i you know i've i've been tempted i've gotten down
as far as san antonio
but i've never gone down to uh
really to the coastline
yeah
so
uh_huh
i love it
yes
i love
uh_huh
yes
it is
and you have to do that uh people that go and go
and they only go to one area you have to see all
yes
very good
well it was nice talking to you
okay
um
bye bye
okay  
uh what kind of books do you enjoy reading  
oh  
right  
i've read that one too  
i only had a subscription once  
but my mother always gave me hers  
and i i really enjoyed you know all the little things that you find out about texas  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well um i have an interest in art  
so i frequently purchase and read uh books mainly on water color because that's my big interest at the moment  
and uh-oh i guess i like a variety of things uh lots of fiction uh type books  
uh right now i'm occasionally reading on a book about uh the mardi gras in new orleans and its history  
that's fairly interesting  
yeah  
i don't know that i read anything strictly labeled self improvement  
how about you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh maybe i am into some things occasionally that i don't think of in terms of self improvement  
i mean they are  
but i don't label it as such  
well i don't know um  
i uh have attended some seminars that had some tapes that went with them but uh i guess not so much books although they sometimes have manuals and things  
but uh they would be things on like how to be successful and sort of talking to yourself you know getting your yourself in gear to uh sort of pull yourself up by your boot straps and do what you really want to do   convincing you that you need to get on with it  
yes  
sure  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know  
i'm not sure i could take too much of stephen king  
that's a little little heavy for me  
yeah  
well i guess i also have been reading uh a lot of things on uh quality improvement and that type of thing because that's what i'm involved in a lot at work  
oh yeah  
you could almost label everything quality in some sense or other  
but uh   i think sometimes the word is a little over used  
but  
yeah  
okay  
well any other comments  
well we just started  
right  
well you too  
and uh good bye  
good bye  
wonderful touch tone telephone there  
uh haven't have i have a wide variety of of hobbies  
therefore my my reading [pleasures] are quite wide  
um i get a charge out of uh texas highway   which is uh very colorful and uh not being a native of texas but being here eleven years have a tendency to uh find out the uh about the different areas of the of the of the state by reading it  
oh yeah  
it's it's uh absolutely it's great the way that it's broken out and you can uh set up little trips and day trips and things  
it's pretty pretty neat  
um oh i like photography um magazines  
i don't take a subscription or anything like that  
um things oh  
being an engineer in facilities i do read a lot of a lot of uh building magazines and and and plant engineering magazines and read up on different ways to do things and energy management type of magazines  
and   and uh kind of strange because i it's not unusual to uh see uh an engineering manual or something laying around the house  
and then i'll sit up and read just to [refresh] uh you know to keep active on it  
but uh  
how about yourself  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
i bet that would be rather interesting  
uh that's uh self improvement  
that's that's well that's kind of a hobby  
but it is self improvement from the standpoint of probably relaxing uh  
um well i hate to  
yes  
i do  
we uh we have these classes we attend uh management classes  
and and they give you books  
and and the last book uh matter of fact i read was at america's service by carl [albrecht]  
it talks about uh who the customer is and being customer oriented uh which falls in line with the t i culture here at texas instruments  
uh one of it's great [slogans] is if you're not serving the customer you better be serving someone who is  
uh so that's all in self improvement to stay focused on who the customer is  
and as you probably well know all of us are our own customer  
your my customer i'm your customer sort of thing  
um every now and then i'm loaned a tape i can stick in the uh in the car cassette set on the way home to make the drive more enjoyable talking about uh better [outlooks] on things and the philosophy of of pat [hagerty] and these kind of uh mind stimulating philosophy type   which all you know [betters] yourself  
uh_huh  
like what for example  
sure  
sure  
how about items like um the one minute manager which used to be a big  
okay  
so those are self improvements  
um our supervisor uh [subtly] bought all of us a book called what every supervisor should know   by a man man named doctor [bittel] b i t t e l  
and it's a very [layman's] uh uh approach towards managing different types of people  
and the very last chapter and i haven't figured out why that one was last is how to manage engineers  
so it's it's it's interesting  
here again it's it's casual reading  
and it's not eaten up with a lot of uh mechanical stuff  
and it's really excellent fast reading  
and uh but as you say it's it's sometimes it's difficult to to know if it's you know  
i think if somebody would say hey read these ten books because these are self improvements i would probably be turned off to them  
if he casually just walked into it and uh put down a stephen king book and i picked up one of them i might be a little more interested  
yeah  
they're uh quite uh they're hard to set down because it's so interesting  
and of course they're all just a little [spookier] than the movies  
but uh   it's always they're always challenging to get through one of them  
i have a hard time finishing books  
uh_huh  
in quality especially now days uh that's almost everything that comes across the the the [airways]  
exactly exactly right  
yeah we we have i think we we name drop it a little too much and and don't fully understand what what it is we're saying  
i think it's just focusing in on the issue and walking your talk  
and and all that kind of rolls in together there  
but uh that's just kind of part of it  
uh not that i can think of  
um i think i'm under my quota a little bit  
i need to probably make a phone call or two  
uh this is true  
i've enjoyed it  
have a good day  
bye bye  
uh books  
mainly i read the bible these days  
good that's great to hear  
uh and christian literature  
uh i've kind of  
i used to read a lot of uh novels  
but it seems as though if you really want to set a side time to read the bible and you work and   and whatever uh that pretty well takes up your time for reading  
and i i been praying that god would put a desire to read the bible in my heart  
and he really has  
it's getting   to where a just really want to read it  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
have you ever read any of frank e [peretti's]  
uh this present darkness and uh uh i forget the the other  
well he uh he's also written a lot of children  
how old is your daughter  
five  
okay  
he's written some children's books as well  
and they're all [spiritually]   uh oriented  
yeah  
frank e peretti  
p e r e t t i  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do  
because uh i love to read his his uh children's books just  
yeah  
oh they're good  
they're great  
and it's like uh uh usually about a family of uh [archaeologists]   and the spiritual fights that they get into   like uh uh digging in old ruins   and running across like uh the old gods and things  
yeah  
it is  
it's real exciting  
and it also teaches them spiritual warfare   you know  
so  
uh_huh  
well it's hard for me  
uh_huh  
i know it  
and especially it's hard to keep your interest   in those [begats]  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've read a lot of his too  
yeah  
can't put them down  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh there's another guy  
oh what can  
what is his name  
oh [durn]  
you would well  
you know when you're recording you can't  
uh-oh dean uh [kratz] or [kranz]  
or  

who  
uh no  
it's a guy  
and he he writes the same thing though  
it's that real   gruesome   horror stories  
yeah  
koontz  
uh his last name ends in a z i know that  
yeah uh  
uh_huh  
i kind of got burnt out on steven king though  
it seems like it's all the  
did you ever read the uh uh-oh  
it's one of his first books the stand  
i know it  
and that seems like all of his books have kind of come from that i mean  
you know that  
uh_huh  
i love that book though  
i thought it was great  
ooh yes  
oh those [hedges] when they started moving  
whenever they they made that into a movie i was thinking oh my gosh if they show that   i'll just die  
for some reason that scared me more than anything  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and that was a pretty scary movie too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
that's true  
i liked it as well  
that's   another big fat one  
yeah  
except it broke my heart  
i'm a dog lover  
no  
it was uh  
what  
oh yeah  
i've read that one too  
he's written a lot of books  
boy he just sits down eight hours a day   just like any other job  
that's right  
that one about the [gypsies] or that   [hunger]  
or uh  
yeah  
richard bachman  
yeah  
he's so [prolific]  
oh i know it  
and i have gone back  
and after i i graduated i read some of the old classics that i just [bluffed] my way through   and have found that i enjoy them quite a bit too uh  
once you can get into the language  
you know the  
it's like it's english  
but it's not the same english they speak today  
so it's kind of hard to keep you know at it  
but  
their worthwhile   literature  
yeah  
me too  
uh_huh  
[nathaniel] hawthorne is pretty scary himself  
uh wasn't that jane [ehre]  
no  
he wrote jane [ehre] too  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's why i like to watch that masterpiece theatre on channel thirteen   because they'll take a classic and and uh televise it   you know put it into a viewing format   more or less  
uh_huh  
do you  
well i can imagine  
yeah  
yeah  
me too  
well i think we've accomplished five minutes  
so  
it's good talking to you  
bye bye  
yes  
that's very good  
i do too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it does  
it  
that's good  
that's good  
it it it's uh it's hard for me to find time also to read  
uh a lot of times i do just read magazines and stuff like that for you know because i don't have a lot of time  
but when i do get to sit down and and read i like to read the bible  
and i like to read  
i read to my daughter a lot too  
and uh i like to read you know  
i have bible [storybooks]  
so i like reading those to her  
and she really enjoys those  
so that's good  
and it and it's kind of short because we don't [woe] don't have a lot of time   to to read  
so it's real enjoyable   for both of us  
frank e  
no  
i guess i haven't  
five  
oh really  
what's his name again  
peretti  
frank e peretti  
i have to look for those  
just to read them  
well that's good  
that's good  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
oh that sounds pretty neat  
oh i'll have to look for those  
right  
well that's neat  
well i i have a  
my daughter has precious moments collection  
and i like that because it's a it's real easy to uh follow for her  
you know uh gosh if if i read straight out of the bible to her she'd never understand any of it  
that's right  
it is it is real hard to to follow and understand  
and uh i've got a bible that uh has a little bit of a uh a [glossary] in the back  
and it helps explain who people are  
that's that's about the hardest thing is who's related to who  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
it sure is  
but but it is good reading  
and it's good for us   and and everything  
i really do enjoy it  
but uh i also  
but then on the other extreme i like to read uh uh i guess i don't know horror steven king type books  
the  
and i i like that  
that's good fun reading  
no  
you can't  
you really can't  
they are good  
and ooh they just they're just so suspenseful  
i really do enjoy his  
i know  
judith [krantz]  
judith [krantz]  
i know her  
oh okay  
oh  
ooh  
yeah  
that's good  
yeah  
oh i think i know who you're talking about  
uh i've seen  
i don't think i can pronounce it either  
but  
yeah  
i'm in a book club  
and i think i've seen his books   in there  
i've never read any of his  
but they're real  
yes  
that oh that long thing  
yeah  
they do kind of follow or   are similar  
yeah  
it really was  
and i loved the shining  
that was that was my favorite  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that is  
he just brings stuff alive you know  
you could just visualize everything  
that's  
yeah  
i think they did a pretty good job  
but   they didn't follow it exactly  
but they did give it you know do it justice  
but uh most of the time they don't with when follow books very well when they make them into movies  
yeah  
yeah uh  
i did too  
yeah  
yeah  
that was good  
i liked uh i also liked uh [cujo]  
did you read that one  
and  
yeah  
me too  
and then uh night stand  
is that night  
dead dead zone  
that's one i liked  
dead zone  
that was a  
that was a real good one  
i know it  
right  
and then he has some under uh another name   that he's written  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i think his name was bachman  
he wrote under the name of bachman  
yeah  
he is really interesting  
yeah  
ooh i wish i could do that  
uh_huh  
i do too  
i love old good old  
yeah  
right  
that's true  
but i  
that's that was one of my favorite subjects in school was uh   literature  
i used to love those old good good old books  
i didn't mind doing that at all  
yeah  
yeah  
i liked uh-oh  
gosh why can't i think of their names  
uh shoot  
the one that wrote uh [wuthering] heights  
no  
that was another one  
yeah  
yeah  
uh well you know who i'm talking about  
yeah  
those are good old   good old books and classics  
that's right  
sure is neat  
yeah  
right  
right  
a lot of people just don't have time to read nowadays  
i know it's it's really hard for me  
i work two jobs and   uh have my daughter and teach sunday school and go to school myself  
so it's it's hard for me to   sit down and read  
but when i do i just just love it  
i think we have too  
thank you very much  
you too  
bye bye  
yeah  
the question was uh what kind of books do you read for entertainment uh uh i guess  
okay  
with two little kids i can understand that  
oh  
what uh what kind of  
huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
by uh somebody who was there  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well any of the guys that were ground  
yes  
yeah  
i can imagine  
well i tell you what  
i'm a kind of uh a history nut  
i'm trying to think back now  
i read an awful lot of uh periodicals and uh you know almost what you call reference books  
and uh the last uh i'm embarrassed to say the last you know honest to gosh cover to cover book that i read i cannot right offhand i tried to read uh one of the the michener uh lone star or the the texas history book  
oh well i've had similar problems  
it does tend to to  
yeah as a matter of fact  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
battle cry of freedom  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there was a lot more to it than that weren't there  
yeah  
well it was a political move  
it was made to [placate] some of the northern support but not completely [alienate] all the southern support because you know it was uh if you read it it only [emancipated] those who were in areas uh in rebellion against the united states  
all the other areas which would i think at that time would have included west virginia and oh may have been kentucky a few states you know that were not part of the south but still had slaves  
they didn't [emancipate] them  
uh_huh  
i've got the same problem  
yeah  
uh_huh  

isn't much there was there  
right  
they [supplied] some uh you know  
they were some groups of it the vicksburg  
if you ever get a chance to go over to vicksburg the [battleground] at vicksburg uh there's an area there where there was uh some texas uh groups  
and they had an interesting time there  
and down there at [sabine] pass uh i can't think of the guy's name  
but he held off uh you know just he and a handful of guys managed to hold off the whole union navy for a while from coming up the [sabine] river which was of no consequence but still is an interesting story  
that could be it could be it  
and then the last civil war battle was fought at [val] [verde] you know  
over there on the texas border you had a lot of of groups heading for mexico  
and they were cut off at the pass more or less at eagle pass  
and they didn't get across the river there  
so they're the last  
and that was actually after the war was over  
but it was the last   organized battle between the two units was in texas  
so  
yeah  
texas participation in the civil war was uh minor at uh  
it's been  
yeah  
yeah  
well my wife's from galveston  
so  
yeah  
well i'm from new mexico  
so you know i was  
uh_huh  
huh  
it sounds like iowa or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
on  
yeah  
oh well my sister's living in illinois right now  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i've always kind of enjoyed it  
i i used to read a lot more than i do now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i just turned around and looked at my brief at my [briefcase] my uh [bookcase] up here  
and i see [armageddon] up there  
and uh the shadow of blooming [grove] and two thousand and ten and grant takes command and the war in the year oh space that was the one i was trying to wade through was space james michener didn't get very far on that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it really  
the the books are kind of uh [imposing] to say the least  
no  
let's see  
here's one called ghost towns and mining camps of new mexico  
now not too many people have read that one  
i don't think  
and there's the history of [yoakum] county texas there  
i've got uh  
yeah  
and i've got yeah and i've got a history of [kingsley] iowa  
well because that's where my folks all came from  
and they had a [centennial] here awhile back  
i read the grant takes command  
that was pretty good  
that was part of that trilogy that uh   bruce canton did  
yeah  
sometimes it's awful hard  
some of those get very philosophical  
they can be in any setting  
they just happen to put them in a futuristic setting you know  
the  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you're reading dune  
that was a movie too wasn't it  
was it  
yeah  
i'd i didn't see it  
but uh  
yeah  
patrick stewart was in that  
i guess the guy that's on the new star trek series was in that thing uh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
couldn't  
yeah  
um well some history   books are pretty scary  
but  
yeah  
no  
somebody who   saw the movie here the other day told me it was the most [terrifying] thing they'd ever seen  
they didn't sleep all night  
yeah  
yeah  
i have  
no uh  
i don't have the foggiest notion what it's about  
so  
okay  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
that's the one  
even better than jaws and some of that  
yeah  
oh  
a a [freddy] [kruger] type huh  
oh the worst kind  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i just read for escape  
well i mean it's  
yes  
it's that's simple  
i read to escape  
and i don't read any parents magazines either  
so  
well i just finished just i just finished one last night a great book  
it it's very a typical for my reading though but a great book one called the things they carried by tim [o'brien]  
and it's uh  
god  
i don't know if i would call it a collection of vietnam war stories or if i'd call it a collection of vietnam love stories  
strange book beautifully written  
just beautifully written  
yeah  
a guy who was there as a uh foot soldier  
so he considered himself to be you know a a true vietnam soldier  
yeah  
so what's the latest one you've read  
uh_huh  
i have never been able to make it through any of [michener's] work  
have you are you a civil war buff at all  
because i finished one  
i think this is like two years ago  
and somebody had given me one of these [dinky] do crappy women's novels set in the civil war john [jakes] with  
and the novel didn't do that much for me  
but boy the period of time was fascinating  
so i then read was it battle cry of freedom  
or  
yeah  
i think it was battle cry of freedom  
it's kind of like a historical [compendium]   of the civil war  
and it's not a story of the civil war  
it's a story of all the politics and uh lobbying and just basically state by state events   that lead to the events that brought about the civil war  
and it's fascinating because i had always you know been raised on this you know [emancipation] [proclamation] with the civil war  
there was a lot more to it than that  
as a matter of fact that was a very minor part that kind of become like an [afterthought]  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
well you know what else really surprised me now  
i'm married to a native texan  
and i'm not  
uh  
yeah  
i'm glad you put it that way  
and i have two native texan children too  
my husband is always you know talked about texas being a uh rebel state  
and oh my god all this civil war pride  
i kept waiting for  
where's some reference to this [goddamn] state of texas and the role that they played either leading up to or in the civil war  
they might as well have not even been there  
you know they weren't a state  
and the only the only way that they had any part in it was after worth as to you know who's going to be going there  
and i keep telling my husband that  
and he keeps saying oh no  
i thought okay  
oh i'll bet they did  
well you know why they actually held them off  
none of the yankees wanted to listen to their kind of [luted] grammar  
now you didn't hear me say that  
outside of uh  
yeah  
oh  
boy  
don't tell that to a native texan though  
i mean my god they fought and won the whole thing  
oh  
that's a beautiful state  
that's a beautiful state  
see i was raised in the midwest which   you know hell we didn't even you know we didn't even know where the mason [dixon] line was  
and besides you know if corn didn't grow there   it didn't matter  
iowa and nebraska  
yep  
and then i had probably lived the last eleven years in massachusetts  
so you know   what does that make me an [honorary] yankee  
or   god knows what  
well then she's going to come out well rounded  
but outside of those kind of things you know the other thing that i've really gotten into reading  
and i think this is because the kids are getting to me   is science fiction  
well i've gone to the point where my husband my husband travels i get out like you know two or three books  
and i i'm trying to think of oh [isaac] asimov robot series  
i mean i think i've read all four of them  
and i understand that there's a fifth  
in the last six weeks he's been on the road a lot  
you know i think i read hawaii   when i was about ten years old  
or so  
which is about the [developmental] level that you know you need to be at to read those things  
and i still even then i was so so disgusted with it i i tried to read i don't remember which other one it was  
whatever one it was it was such a [blockbuster] [seller]  
and i just i got about like a hundred pages through it and realized i had like a thousand more  
i thought i can't do this  
yeah  
no  
is that a big thick book  
what the what the hell for  
why [kingsley] iowa  
oh okay  
well  
now that's one that   that's one  
i don't know  
see i had never really been into science fiction that much until uh somebody gave me mist of [avalon] probably about five or six years ago  
i don't know if i'd call it science fiction or fantasy  
well i loved that novel  
and then somebody said oh god this would have been even long ago because i was in boston  
and it was raining all night  
and i had a hole in my roof  
and i was waiting for the whole house to collapse   and uh i was reading dune   which seeming rather ironic  
and i read the whole damn book while i was home hauling out you know like ten gallon buckets of of water and waiting for the roof to collapse and   reading about these guys wearing their little free man still suits  
and   i think that's probably my favorite of of any piece of science fiction that i've ever read  
and the movie was awful  
oh yes  
it was just terrible  
it was it was beyond uh  
i don't know  
i just remember sting was in it  
yeah  
and if you were trying to follow any type of uh plot it it  
even having read the book and i've read that book probably three times   watching that movie i couldn't figure out   what they were talking about   at all  
i was real disappointed in that  
well i'll tell you another good book  
do you like scary things  
have you  
that's true  
have you read the silence of the lambs  
oh  
well see i i am debating whether or not i want to go see the movie after having read the book  
i mean the book is is [chilling]  
just [chilling]  
then i won't tell you  
it's just that if you're ever ever really want to just be scared out of your wits  
that's the one  
yes  
yes  
because the the the character that is so horrible is another human being  
and you're just drawn into his his horror   of him that you   begin to kind of like him  
i mean  
no  
no  
this guy's smart  
and he's [suave]  
and he's all the all the   characteristics  
yeah  
all the characteristics  
okay  
what kind of books do you like to read   for enjoyment  
uh_huh  
what kind of business is it  
uh_huh  
well that sounds that sounds fun  
what kind of business is it  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting  
a what  
oh really  
well that sounds interesting  
my mom always wants me to open a health food store  
but i'll i'm not really into it  
i don't know the i don't know that much about it  
so anyway but well that's interesting  
i personally i like mostly um  
if i had a book of my choice i like books i go to the library a lot  
and it seems like i always i never go to the fiction section  
i mean that to me is just ridiculous  
it's like   life is to interesting to read fiction  
but i always get books like um  
i like to quilt  
well i'm not into quilting  
but i check a lot of books out to learn how  
i just haven't done it yet because it seems to monstrous to do with a book  
but i like to um can and do food preservation  
and mostly canning just for fun to go pick the things and just to have fun doing it and to give them as gifts and stuff  
and i like to check books out like that  
and i always come away with  
i'm a christian  
and i enjoy reading books about um  
i have a real heart for people involved in [cults]  
and so i have a real you know heart for them  
and i'm going to bring my mormon neighbors some amish bread today  
and that's just where my heart is  
so i read a lot of books on that  
and you know christian books written by people about you know to help you out and stuff  
and i read the bible  
i don't read the bible as much as i should  
but but i think i would always think that no matter what i did  
so but i do enjoy reading that  
and so pretty much we have different interests i think in reading  
but   and i have a neighbor with a big [motorbike]  
and he likes to run down the street with it  
and you you can probably hear him  
but um i don't know  
so do you enjoy reading anything like that um  
uh_huh  
thirty or younger   is that what you said  
oh ten years younger  
oh that's funny  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
maureen [solomon] i had a a friend of mine has a book by her right now called foods that heal  
they eat a lot of it  
you know you can take your vitamins  
and she was telling me to take [zinc]  
so anyway i've been taking enough [zinc] you know to kill a horse probably  
i hope it doesn't hurt me  
but anyway i did read one chapter of that  
uh_huh  
no  
i haven't  
uh_huh  
the quantities  
and  
what's the name of it again  
life extensions  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
oh really  
really  
i know there's not any food that you can get  
and it's grown on good soil hardly anymore  
and i know my my husband's uncle owns some acreage in a [eastland] texas which is in west texas  
owns  
and he owns a lot of acreage that's been [farmed] properly you know  
and uh we get black eyed peas off of it and stuff  
but i know that you know the further we go from adam the worse the food is for you  
but god still somehow makes us all be able to still live  
i think it's a miracle we're all still alive after so many generations  
well the last couple of processed foods  
you know i mean but i don't know  
i like to i like to  
my  
i like to be able to eat really healthy  
you know and   i guess i'm going to have to wait for the [millennium] i think though because i do don't think we're going to restore the earth to  
you know i think jesus is the only one that can make this earth be restored to what it should be  
but uh in the meantime we pray over our food because i'm always looking down my plate  
and i think man this stuff was probably grown in who knows what you know kind of environment  
but i do take some vitamins on the side  
and i do like reading books like that i just i have a hard time a lot of the books are real new age oriented like mother earth  
and we're going to restore the earth  
i just don't see that  
i think i mean i think to think that is almost  
it's hopeless to think that man can do anything with the  
you know what i'm saying  
it's  
and i think god's in charge  
and god's going to restore it when he wants to  
so sometimes i get bogged down in the you know in the [ideology] that motivates a lot of health food and motivates a lot of vitamin taking  
but you know there's a balance in it sometimes i read stuff like that  
and then i just chunk off like water off your back some of it  
and you know and try and do what's what i can do out of it that's practical  
but   anyway uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
because it's what  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
really  
really  
you know i bet that's why we have some friends that eat only  
i just took this amish bread out of the oven  
man it's going to be good  
i had a starter that friend of mine made  
anyway uh i had a friend that read a book on that  
and um i've  
all my relatives my  
you know you probably read back to [eden] or something  
i don't know  
we read a lot  
i know people have read all those books  
but the um  
they they drilled a well i don't know how many feet  
but it's three or four times deeper than it needed to be  
and so their water comes out  
they live in grand prairie  
but it's  
they live kind of in a the planes go right over from d f w  
so it's not real developed  
and so they have a   probably half an acre  
and yeah  
and they drilled this well  
and the water comes out at thirty two degrees  
so it's kinds of neat  
would that be healthier do to do that to drill your own fresh water well like that  
uh mainly   the the books i read are uh business related   or self improvement  
um i've got a a uh small company on the side that i that i do things with  
so uh a lot of the reading that i i do has to do with um how can i uh do better at at my small time business uh important issues such as a   you know taxes and   business expenses and all those kind things  
um i've got a uh small [distributorship] uh  
i uh sell a uh healthy cookie on the side  
and uh i have a few health food stores that i send it to  
i can buy the cookies in a larger quantity than they can  
so i can get a deal from the uh from the from the supplier  
and then i distributed them  
and then i i get i can sell them at a cheaper price  
plus i've got a uh drinking water system business that i've had on the side for years that i've done  
a drinking water business  
uh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sounds like it  
um i haven't really read anything like that in in in years  
there was a time when i was really into the home things  
and i did uh had my own garden  
and i did canning all those kind of things  
that was when i was about uh ten years younger  
and uh i had  
about ten years younger  
yeah  
and uh uh the problem that i've had in the past with uh my children growing up and moving out of the house and and still having three left at home   out of the five  
um i've tried to devote more time to them and trying to get them interested in in reading more and and spending more time at the library  
and it  
i've been moderately successful   uh with my daughter and with my son they both have different interests in books  
but um they they uh they do read them  
um i have some books on on health that i read all the time  
one's on vitamins that are good for you and that kind of thing  
yeah  
i i'm   uh_huh  
there's a uh a couple called um oh  
i'm going to forgot his name now uh [dirkson]  
um and uh there's a book called life extensions  
i don't know if you've ever heard of it  
okay  
it's a book called life extensions  
there's also a book called the life extension companion  
uh [dirk] [pearson] and  
oh i forgot [sally's] last name anyway it's a couple  
i've i've seen them on t v  
and uh they they are pretty down to earth about uh what you can take and and what you can't take  
and um   the quantities what are good for you what isn't  
and  
um life extensions  
uh yeah  
he's probably about forty years old now  
i saw him probably seven years ago   on johnny carson show  
and uh i was pretty impressed  
he had a  
he  
before he started out on his experiments he had a battery of tests done on his body to determine the age of each one of his [organs]   you know based on how well it was performing  
and then he [embarked] on this uh vitamin treatment  
and then every year he had the same tests run  
and at the age of thirty two i think it was his um heart was that of a fourteen year old  
and all the rest of his [organs] were all greatly you know all tested out greatly below his actual age  
and of course sally uh isn't a very big woman  
i mean she's you know she appeared to me to be very petite  
and um she took a horse shoe and and turned it turned it into an s  
and uh it was all from taking the right vitamins and things that that give you the strength  
and of course doing [isometric] exercises uh together they both exercised about five minutes a day   doing [isometrics] rather than you know physical strenuous exercises  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
there's  
i've i've read a lot of things um since i got involved in the water business back in eighty three  
um and it's amazing that the the legislation they have um for food that doesn't apply to water  
they don't consider water a food  
and uh the basics premise is that if water was a food it would be you know they wouldn't be able to sell it to you through your pipes because it's toxic um chlorine  
it's toxic  
it's a  
i don't know if your on city water  
city water has chlorine in it  
chlorine   causes cancer  
they know that  
they've proven that  
um yet their saying well we're putting such low doses in there that well   you don't have to worry about dying from it  
the problem is that i've that i've read books that   uh have proven that there is a link between the [ingestation] of chlorine and arteriosclerosis which is heart attack  
and if you look at the history of hear attacks heart attacks were nonexistent prior to nineteen twenty  
and we started doing um large quantities of [chlorination] of water starting around uh where we experimented with it in nineteen oh three and nineteen thirteen most of the major cities had [chlorinated] water  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm very familiar with the area  
it depends a lot of uh a lot of things were thought that uh as  
you know the farmers thought okay we got chemicals we're putting chemicals on the field  
well the ground will naturally filter out the  
okay  
your name is lynn  
linda  
yeah  
i read quite a bit probably don't read as much as i would like to  
uh_huh  
um well um i'm a i'm a counselor a therapist by trade  
so most of my books are um i guess what you'd call self improvement type of books  
uh_huh  
what kind of things have you read  
uh_huh  
uh i haven't gotten through it yet  
no  
um as far as dealing with divorce  
good self help  
well um probably the best one that i i know of and i work with all the time is called search for significance   by robert [mcgee]  
and it's one that we use in our work  
it's probably one you'd find in like a christian book store  
i don't know what the chains are down there maybe in the mall family book store something like that  
um probably should stay on the topic  
but that has a little bit to do with some of the things that i read  
i'm a therapist for [rossa]  
it's a christian treatment organization  
and because of that i see uh work with adolescents specifically  
so i see a lot of kids with with various problems  
right now some of the things i'm working with are kids that are dealing with sexual abuse  
so a lot of the books i've been reading have to do with helping them get through those issues  
uh_huh  
well sometimes it's rewarding  
and and sometimes it's a struggle  
um i guess i've got so many books like that that i need to read  
it's it's hard for me to do a lot of uh   reading yeah reading just for enjoyment  
in fact  
uh_huh  
um that's neat  
yeah  
i've always wanted to go back and read some of my literature texts from college   um because i enjoyed some of those stories so much  
but i never seem to have the time to do   that kind of reading  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've got a stack next to my bed  
i tend to get a little bit of ways in a book  
and then i i get distracted and or have to start on another one  
it's pretty tough to keep up with  
i was trying to think of  
i i've got a copy of the road less travelled  
but i was trying to think there's another scott book that i've got that i had read  
yeah  
that's the one i was thinking of  
uh_huh  
uh  
that's interesting  
uh_huh  
is it  

um  
uh_huh  
um not very long  
i really just started  
my wife has been working for t i  
oh uh_huh  
it's just i was just thinking at at [rossa]  
they tend to come out with a new book every couple of weeks   just to help us deal with all the things that we have to deal with  
so i keep getting stacks of books i need to read  
and   i don't know when i'm going to get to them all  
i don't think so  
yeah  
i don't think so  
yeah  
a little bit  
um trying to think  
uh_huh  
i like that kind of stuff  
i think the last novel i read i read i guess in conjunction with my wife over vacation last year  
it was a um last name's  
it's called [piercing] no it's called this present darkness  
it's uh kind of unusual book  
it's a lot about spiritual warfare and some things like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
well i guess we've covered the topic pretty thoroughly  
yeah  
nice talking to you linda  
okay  
great  
hope you like you it  
uh_huh  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
that made a nice ugly sound  
so  
linda  
uh_huh  
so sounds like you like to read  
i don't read as much as i would like to either  
i'm i'm a single mom  
but i have always loved reading  
what do you like to read  
that what i've been reading lately a lot of  
um my interests switch around dramatically  
i used to read just mainly fiction  
and now i like a said i've read a lot of self self help books  
oh i read all kinds of things for um helping people survive a divorce  
uh the road less travelled was probably one of my favorites  
have you read that  
you haven't  
okay  
what would you recommend  
oh i'm kind of getting that one past me but a good self help book  
yeah  
um that sounds good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm writing it down  
that does that's sound really good  
um what kind of counseling do you do  
or should we stay on the topic of books  

oh  
oh i would imagine helping them feel good about themselves  
they're at a bad stage anyway  
and then to have to deal with sexual abuse   would be terrible as a teen  
that's uh that must be a wonderful feeling to be in that profession and be able to make a contribution like that  
oh i'm sure  
i'm sure  
uh what  
is is that just the only type of reading you've been doing  
or do you have you read any good novels lately  
just joy reading  
yeah  
i hear you there  
that's for sure um  
i guess the last book i've read  
my oldest daughter had to read lost horizons for her english class  
and i just realized i had never read it growing up  
so i just finished reading that for enjoyment  
and it it was good  
um she she's not didn't enjoy it much  
so i didn't get much satisfaction trying to discuss it with her  
but i thought it was real interesting  
uh_huh  
i know  
yeah  
um i trying to think of some of my other favorite books  
but i i keep lists  
i must have a list of oh two hundred three hundred books that i want to read  
just like i want to read that and i write it down  
so do i  
uh he he also wrote people of the lie  
yeah  
i i bought that one  
and i didn't get into involved in that one as well  
there's another one he wrote that even sounds better  
and it's kind of the whole concept of global peace you know like and communities   building communities  
someone just recently said something really neat about that  
uh i got involved in uh beginning experience weekends  
and uh it was of the people from there that said that  
his latest book and i can't recall the name of it is just excellent  
and his whole idea is we can build a better world if people get involved in good community building projects  
and he did uh mention beginning experience weekends as one of the you know one of the places  
so i've um  
yeah  
it it really was  
a real fun bunch of books that i read uh the beginning of last year were um the author of jonathan jonathan livingston [seagull]  
i can't think of his name  
pardon me  
uh no uh-oh  
it'll it'll come to me  
but he wrote he wrote the [illusion] and a bridge over a bridge to forever  
those are mind expanding books  
his [concepts] are so different than what i would have ever dreamed of  
i can't think of what his name is right right off the bat though  
but uh they they were fun  
they were real just books for fun  
have you been involved on the switchboard long  
uh_huh  
how did you get involved  
oh i see  
i'm a former t i er  
i just recently quit  
and so uh i got myself involved in a sales job  
and right now my list of books to be read have to do with uh the art of selling  
so  
uh_huh  
never  
never  
there's never going to be enough hours in the day  
even if you took speed reading huh  
so well i'm trying to think of what other kind  
do you like to read mysteries  
do you like ken  
he writes uh spy novels the eye of the needle  
and uh i've i've really i really have found his books enjoyable  
um  
oh that sounds interesting  
it sounds really good  
hey you should make yourself a promise that you'll you'll read one novel in the next six months just for you  
you know it's it's so easy to get caught up on reading just for your work or you know self improvement  
and you kind of forget the fun of reading  
yeah  
very easily  
so  
i think so too  
and i thank you for calling  
and uh i'll have to check out that book you   told me about  
okay  
thank you  
you take care  
bye bye  
well there's been a lot of publicity lately about that new nancy reagan book out by uh kitty kelly the unauthorized biography  
are you interested in that at all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i the reason why i was thinking about looking at it is because it's supposed to  
i'm not a fan of nancy reagan  
and so it's supposed to have a lot of [unflattering] things in it  
and i thought just purely for entertainment i might enjoy that  
but i i wouldn't want to go out and buy it like you know the hard back copy of it  
but i might check  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
in biographies  
well i uh   i have read some biographies  
i prefer to read  
if i read a biography it's mostly because maybe i have to uh you know  
back when i was in school i had to have information about that person or um preparing some kind of lesson  
and i need to have more information about people  
but i i do like to read some biographies  
but that one just sounded like gossipy  
and i wouldn't want to sit down and just read it cover to cover but flip through just for just to get a good laugh  
uh_huh  
was it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a while  
uh hum  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i like the classics too  
uh i think that there's a lot of books out now that are kind of garbage books  
and i well i don't prefer to read a lot of the things like you might find at uh well like at a target or a supermarket or something where they have a bunch of books out paperback type books  
usually i i'm going to the book store for a particular reason uh  
yes  
yes  
and and uh i buy some of the not self improvement books but uh self help books  
like we just bought a new house  
so i bought a couple of books about how to buy a house and what to look for you know   and or how to repair this or repair that in your own home  
i bought that for my husband  
and or how to how to do something books you know for reference  
and uh and those are really helpful i think in helping um  
well you know like some symptoms medical symptoms like when how do you know when to take your child to the doctor or not   type books which i use as reference and have been real handy  
but purely just for enjoyment  
i i had a major in english and linguistics  
and so i have a lot of books in my home that i can read from the classics  
and i do enjoy those quite a bit  
and um so i tend to for reading just day to day uh you know i have a particular book i'm looking for  
or i just enjoy uh you know the newspaper magazine  
it's handy  
uh_huh  
right  
light reading  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i think that's good because you do have to use your mind and imagine up the circumstances and things  
it's not like uh most television where you you know you just you can sit there and not even pay attention very much but   still understand what was going on  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
not too much  
not too much  
well that's right  
well i think it is good to to read books and and because even if it's like you say it's light reading you are still getting some uh mental exercise  
right  
that's right  
that's good  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i think so  
well i guess i'd better close now so i can  
uh   well i i was  
i'm home now   full time  
but uh so yeah  
we're we think books are important around here  
well you have a good day  
stay out of the rain  
bye bye  
not really  
i'm not much of a fan of nancy reagan  
so i i don't particularly read um biographies or [autobiographies]  
i haven't read too many  
i i'm more of a fiction and nonfiction reader that not of that nature though  
yeah  
if they if they had it i don't even know that i'd probably read it even if it was at the library though  
i i just you know i'm just not really interested in reading about other people's lives to that degree  
you know unless maybe they lived a long long time ago  
for me it would be interesting to find out what life was uh like you know in that period  
but   not not really interested  
yeah  
i think the last biography that i read i'm not i think it was it was um on lady [randolph] churchill   [churchill's] mother  
and that was excellent  
um yeah  
it was  
it's in two parts  
i think the first one is called [jenny] or something like that uh because that was her name  
and um   i only got to read one part of it  
and i've been looking for you know the other half of it and read the  
i read that half where she was in her later years  
and it was absolutely excellent  
and it was very [descriptive] of of people with money back then and uh [affluents] in england uh that you know were associated to the king and all  
and it was   really pretty fascinating  
and i and that was actually a couple of years ago  
so   it's it's been a while since i've read   any biographies  
uh i love to read  
i mean i'm constantly reading  
i read i like uh mysteries  
and i like um  
as far as improving myself uh i haven't read any lately  
but i was reading classical works that i hadn't read before   you know that you might have needed to read in school but that i just didn't read for some reason or another another or that you know that you can only read so many in school that they make a requirement of  
and you have so many out there that uh that you you know you never get a chance to read  
and so i said  
well i think it was because i read um [dickens'] a [tale] of two cities  
and i just um that even when i read it now it still makes me cry the ending of it  
and i couldn't believe i i could not believe that it took me so long to read such a good book  
i'd read some [dickens] before  
but i hadn't read that one  
and i i was like i thought to myself you know what other things are out there that are that are classics   you know that have [withstood] time and that are just excellent  
something's excellent about them whether it's the way they were written or whether it was the material they were written you know that was written about  
and um so i started reading  
i had this like you know i had a binge of  
my mother uh  
i was living in bermuda at the time with my husband  
but my uh mother sent me you know like you know uh boxes full of different books  
and uh she just would get them real cheap and stuff and send them over  
but she she is constantly was i guess because  
it seems like uh older people have much better uh  
in their schooling they they got more of the classics than i did   you know  
and she knows so much more of them than i do  
i wouldn't even know you know to go look for that author or that book  
you know  
probably you read a book review or something  
a review on it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well what i do is i usually have two books at one time  
i have a classic which i have to work on basically   you know uh just depending  
well some authors i can just you know basically drink in  
but others eh i really do have to work at them  
and then um whether you know they're a foreign author or whatever um or if it's their style or or just understanding the material  
and then i you know some of those it's like i said  
it's like school  
you have to work at it  
but to me it's worthwhile in the end  
i feel good about it  
and i usually remember those a long time later  
and then i have books that i read just purely for enjoyment   you know  
i mean yeah  
just light reading that are  
i particularly like dick [francis] books and just some of the the authors that are uh for mysteries just you know just uh purely for entertainment   you know  
that's it  
i'm not really expecting to get anything out of it   except to be [momentarily] pleased you know because i don't i can never remember   the plots or anything   later on those books  
yeah  
yeah  
that television it gives you everything  
so it's basically [mindless]  
i mean all your the only really thing you are having to use is [connecting] the things that they give you you know   what you're hearing and your your uh your sight  
but they give you everything else  
and it's usually the television that we see nowadays seems like that it's it's it doesn't even have some of the underlying uh things to it you know that maybe the old movies and things had you know the underlying themes and stuff that maybe you had to kind of figure out  
or you know like with [hitchcock] or something where you're you're you're either expecting something or  
i i don't know  
it just i don't really care much for t v at all  
i just  
i mean i sometimes get hooked into it  
but i really i really get mad at myself when i do because i i realize fully there's no really redeeming value for   t v  
no  
yeah  
you're developing your imagination  
you know when you develop your imagination that can take you into a lot of other areas because you've developed uh your your your mind in in seeing things you know   even if it's your own set way you know  
it's you're you're taking words and developing a picture in your mind  
so i mean   it's it's excellent  
i i'm we haven't got children yet  
but i hope to uh set an example for ours that you know that reading is can it can be your best friend   basically  
i mean even if you haven't got a a a human friend around you can pick up a book and and   be with somebody basically  
it sounds like your kids are doing stuff  
or are you a teacher  
i gathered you might be a teacher  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
okay  
you too  
take care  
bye bye  
okay  
um well i'm not  
i mean i read a lot  
but i don't i don't read a whole  
i mean uh eh eh eh i i i i tend to read like only out of a couple you know groups  
uh and i'm a uh i'm a big baseball fan  
so i tend to read a lot of the baseball books  
and  
oh okay  
and uh i read a lot of science fiction  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i um i don't really i probably should  
i don't really read the self improvement books or things like that  
i uh um i'll get like uh books on history and stuff like that that look interesting  
and i uh of course i don't ever get around to reading them  
you know i got uh um  
i i belong to quality paperback book club  
and i'll get get stuff out of that  
like i got battle cry of freedom you know   like a couple of years ago  
and i started reading and got about sixty pages into it  
and it's like eight hundred pages  
and it was like uh i want to read something else for a while  
yeah  
yeah  
well especially you know well  
battle cry of freedom starts off you know in the eighteen forties you know   and it's like  
wait the war wasn't until the you know  
it's like okay  
and i realize these things you know  
these things take awhile like to move up  
but it's you know it's hard sometimes  
i read a lot of science fiction  
yeah  
yeah  
that and  
i i do the same thing  
i  
yeah  
uh there's one science fiction writer named uh allen dean foster  
oh okay  
yeah  
he um  
i must have like fifty or sixty books by him  
i mean i have you know i have everything he's ever well almost everything he's ever done  
and um you know i i know that when i you know when i get his book i'm i'm usually going to enjoy it  
um so it's really you know  
it's it's fun to to do that uh  
yeah  
well he does a lot of like um uh movie adaptations and things like that  
yeah  
and uh his adaptations are usually really good  
um it's it's funny he um  
the the [novelization] of star wars was  
you know it it was out in the uh in the stores as being by george [lucas]  
but it turns out that uh foster actually uh ghost wrote it for him  
which you know  
when i read it i should have realized that because i mean it had [foster's] style written all over it  
yeah  
oh i'm sure he does  
i'd hope so  
well i mean he's doing all right probably  
yeah  
that's true  
well yeah  
you you're a baseball fan  
you're you're aware of that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i had a uh had a subscription to that last year  
but i'm uh i'm mostly a baseball fan  
so i'm   i'm not as you know  
the other stuff is interesting  
but um i was mostly interested in the baseball stuff  
uh actually i'm a red sox fan more than anything  
yeah  
um but uh i i i do like the orioles also  
yeah  
toledo  
i was in toledo last summer  
went to a uh to a mud hens double [header]  
yeah  

i saved that issue actually  
um that's when i had the subscription  
yeah  
it was a lot of fun  
they don't exist anymore  
i don't   think  
at least not by that name  
there's the iowa cubs  
but i don't know if they play   in the same location  
um  
i  
minor league   baseball i think is a lot more fun than   major league baseball  
and it's a lot cheaper  
yeah  
there's um   there's a city just west of of uh baltimore called frederick  
it's about   forty miles west  
and they have a minor league team  
and i go out there almost as much as the orioles  
and um  
i  
it's just a lot of fun  
i mean it's free parking  
and three you know four bucks now to get in  
and you know the hot dogs are a dollar  
and and it's just great  
oriole game  
if you park in the lot across the street from the stadium it's four bucks  
the ticket the the cheapest ticket you can normally get is like six fifty to seven fifty  
yeah  
and um hot dogs like start at a dollar fifty  
oh that's nice  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well how much are the box seats there  
do you know offhand  
yeah  
that's um that's a little [steeper]  
i think the uh most expensive seats in memorial are eleven bucks  
but we're getting a new stadium next year  
so  
yeah  
it'll go up  
and if it opens  
it's uh something we're really irritated about around here  
or some people are really irritated about  
they're they're building this new they built the new stadium downtown  
and they're saying how there's going to be a lot more parking for the stadium  
but i park for free up at at memorial stadium because i know where i can do it for free  
and um i'm not going to be able to do that downtown  
yeah  
we  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
weren't you guys   supposed to get a stadium in downtown dallas  
oh it it didn't   go through  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that's what i'd always heard  
i've uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's about what it takes me to get to memorial  
um   it's it actually funny that um i live just outside of baltimore  
and it takes me almost the same amount of time to go to frederick but as it does to go to the the [ballpark] in in uh baltimore   because um to go out to frederick i just jump on the interstate  
and  
because i live just south of the interstate  
hop on the interstate  
and the [stadium's] right off the interstate  
so it's like i drive west  
and i'm there  
and you know and then to go into baltimore i mean it well it's fewer miles  
but i've got to go stop and go traffic and everything  
do you read um  
i guess you read sports illustrated  
but you don't read many sports books  
or  
uh_huh  
um   huh  
there was uh i understand there was a really good basketball book called uh a season on the [brink]  
yeah  
i'm not sure  
i don't know  
i'm trying to think of the guy's name  
it was like john [feinstein] or something like that   wrote it  
i just heard about it the other night  
uh i was listening to something on the radio   about uh   you know a talk show about sports books  
and they and they mentioned that one  
yeah  
and uh i was thinking about  
there was a i saw a book kicking around on the history of the a b a which  
yeah  
i get in to even when i don't like the sport so much i get interested in the history of sports [franchises]  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm a big baseball fan too  

well i like  
i teach school  
and so during the school year i just don't have time to read  
and i you know i would love to to be able to read more because i i enjoy it so much  
but with correcting papers and and i two kids of my own i just don't have time  
but in the summer i try to read a lot  
and and of course being a woman i like romance novels and stuff like that a whole lot  
i just  
i really enjoy that because it's kind of a a getaway type thing  
so i i read a lot of that  
but i also love sports  
and uh uh i i don't have time to read in  
but i do read sports illustrated   during the the year because my son gets that  
and uh but uh i don't read a lot of nonfiction  
and i really should because there's so many self improvement books out right now that would would be benefit me greatly  
but i just don't  
yeah  
yeah  
oh do you  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
yeah  
it's  
some of those books are real tough to get into  
but after you get into them they're really good  
but it's just tough to get through that first two hundred pages or so  
yeah  
it's right  
that's right  
i find though that if when i find an author  
uh and you don't read a lot of fiction you said  
but when i find  
do you  
when i find an author i really like i try to read everything they write   because you you get used to their style and you really enjoy it  
uh_huh  
i've heard of him  
is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
isn't it amazing that somebody can write that many books about science fiction  
i think that's unbelievable  
oh does he really  
oh  
is that right  
is that right  
uh_huh  
well i i've never read anything of his  
but i've heard about him  
but wouldn't you think he would  
does he get some [royalties] from that hopefully  
well i would think he would  
oh i'm sure he is  
i'm sure he is  
but sometimes the more you get the more you want too  
so  
yeah  
oh yeah  
oh right  
right  
right  
i in fact i'm a sports fan period  
we  
i mean that's why i like to read sports illustrated so much  
because there's everything in it  
oh  
so you're probably uh a baltimore fan right an oriole fan  
is that right  
boston  
oh well that's good too  
i'm i'm sure you do  
well i'm a ranger fan simply because i live here  
but i i was uh  
i'm not from here  
i'm originally from ohio  
so i've always followed the [tigers] because you know i was   i was born and raised in toledo  
yeah  
oh i love the mud hens  
they're great  
i love the name  
and there   was a really big article on the mud hens in sports illustrated last year  
did you  
yeah  
i  
i really enjoy that team  
i we used to go there all the time  
i used to live in iowa too  
and they have the iowa oaks  
and we used to go go to their games all the time  
and  
i know   i know they don't  
oh they must   they must have changed then because it used well  
i haven't lived there for  
i've been here for like twelve years now  
so and i haven't been back to [des] [moines] in a long time  
but   we used to always go to their games  
and it was kind of fun  
it's almost uh more fun than going to a major league game  
i don't know  
i just really enjoy the   farm teams  
yes  
it is  
it's not quite so serious you know  
that's for sure  
that's   for sure  
is that right  
is that right  
well how like how much is an oriole game  
oh gosh  
see it's higher than the rangers  
oh yeah  

the food here is outrageous  
but uh you can get a good seat for uh well  
it used to be three dollars  
but i think it's gone up to four dollars this year  
but you know it's in the bleachers way out in the you know in center field  
but it's still nice  
you still can see well  
and uh we usually sit there unless somebody gives us tickets you know box seats   or something then we usually sit out there  
box seats run from oh like eight dollars to twelve dollars  
oh so it'll go up  
uh_huh  
oh oh  
uh that's yeah that's a bummer  
well see baseball here though is the cheapest game in town because the cowboys  
it's it's outrageous   to go to the cowboy game  
and the mavericks are  
it's high too  
so baseball's cheap   compared to other games  
well that didn't go over   now  
they they   they decided you know george bush who who's the main owner of the rangers decided that uh they'd stay in arlington  
so [arlington's] going to build a stadium a bigger one  
so we're going to they're going to stay there which is fine because [arlington's] got a lot of things to offer  
and and that was their main main money making you know   deal for the city  
and it would have devastated them if they would have taken it away  
because everything  
there's six flags right by the stadium there's a wet and wild  
and   and it you know that's  
all the tourists come there  
and and they  
it would have been devastated  
they would have collapsed  
so i'm kind of glad they're staying there because it's right in the middle of fort worth dallas  
and you know  
yeah  
we you know we i like it there  
and i think dallas has enough to offer that they don't have to hog everything  
so i'm glad that they're staying in arlington  
and it's takes us maybe uh well thirty five to forty minutes to get there from plano which is not too bad at all  
yeah  
so  
is that right  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well not really  
now my son does  
i have i have a son that just turned sixteen  
and he reads everything he gets he gets his get his hands on  
he's reading a dick vitelle book right now because he's a real big dick vitelle fan  
he's a basketball fan because he he plays for the high school he goes to  
and   uh just loves dick vitelle which not many people do  
so but he's reading it  
and he's  
and he says he's so interesting mom  
you just can't believe all the things he's done  
and he's really enjoying that  
and i  
and he said mom you need to read it after i get finished  
so maybe i will  
i never heard that one  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'll have to tell my son about that  
i'm sure he'd like it  
oh that would be good  
okay  
what kind of books do you like to read  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so do i  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
um well i like like you said real life um  
i like biographies of people's lives   like especially like athletes  
for some reason it seems to interest me like people that make a big comeback or   you know [orel] [hershiser] things like that  
and um i like to read books on improve like family marriage you know things that are written by like christian authors or um doctors about family and you know how to improve your home and all that kind of thing  
um i like to  
the magazines i  
to  
i like to read  
i read a lot of bicycling magazines  
they're  
i mainly look at the pictures and stuff  
but they usually have some good articles in it  
but uh i don't know  
i haven't really found any romance type stuff i like to read  
i i'm more true you know   uh nonfiction  
i haven't found a lot of uh fiction books that i really like  
but uh not to say i wouldn't  
eventually i mean  
what was the last book you read  
really  
yeah  
really  
i know  
yeah  
i i set a goal for myself to read a book a month this year which is like about eleven more books than i would have read last year  
but so far i've only read like two books  
and so i'm not doing very well  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
i find it's real hard  
i let papers newspapers stack up and magazines stack up if i don't really set aside a time to look or read them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i would too  
um   kind of train your mind  
have you ever read uh or heard of the book this present darkness  
that was one of the books i read this year  
and it's really fast paced and intense  
it was a nonfiction book or is a fiction book  
but it was  
it was one of the best i read  
i mean it was real good  
and it was um it was one of the few books that  
like it you know  
just hurry up and go through without putting down you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
i'm sure it's fast or something  
uh_huh  
i know what you mean  
i like reading late at night right before i go to bed sometimes  
i just sleep better or something  
but uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
which what book have you read that is along those lines   that was really good  
well how about who  
do you know who it was about  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and then do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh well that's all right  
you're more fun though see  
you're not [ridged] right  
that's good  
yeah  
there may be some schools you could read about and learn  
uh about twenty  
no  
no  
sometimes  
sometimes more than others  
but yeah  
i do  
i've been there about three years  
yeah  
i just got married last year  
and um most of my family's in indiana  
so i've only been in texas three years  
yeah  
i do  
i love the weather down here  
yeah  
i know  
boy they they have storms here  
i've  
hail and thunder and  
yeah  
were you here during the [hailstorm] two years ago  
yeah  
boy i had thirty three hundred dollars damage done on my car  
a lot of people had their cars totaled just from hail  
i think state farm went bankrupt   just about  
but uh  
really  
huh  
yeah  
and colorado springs  
yeah  
i talked to a guy on the phone on this the other day  
and he was telling me about it  
they just sold it  
closed up and moved down to mckinney  
yeah  
i know  
how do i feel what  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's good  
that's  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's really surprising how many people graduate from high school   and that i work with  
and people i mean  
i get memos all the time across my desk  
and things are misspelled  
and   it's really   it's pretty sad  
a lot of people that work for me that can't even spell or read you know  
yeah  
sure  
go ahead  
oh i like all kinds of books  
mostly uh something i like like true life   not uh you know documentaries or real stories about real people and that kind of stuff or dramas in real life  
and uh i also like romantic novels  
i like uh i like readers digest believe it or not  
i usually read that from cover to cover  
i like it because there's a little bit of everything in it  
you know that kind of a thing  
uh as far as like real novels i haven't gotten into shakespeare or any of that type of thing  
i wish i had in in some senses  
but i don't have time really as much as i would like to to get into that kind of thing  
how about you  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh jeez  
let me think  
it  
i tell you i haven't read a book in a long time  
and it  
i can't even really remember  
uh i think it was a romantic novel by danielle steel or one of those  
you know yeah  
honestly  
um i don't do as much reading like i say as i would like to  
working a lot of hours at work  
and  
yeah  
and then of course   we have a home  
so it's you know  
a lot time is spent doing things as far as the yard work or housework or   you know that type of thing  
but see i do crafts too  
so it's hard  
i if i have a minute that's what i i do  
that's the  
and and that's like myself  
i've i've i miss it because i really find it a very relaxing hobby too  
i really do  
and um i don't know  
it seems like you can get lost in a book you know  
it it   it's like an escape for me  
i don't know about you  
it's  
if i'm really interested in what i'm reading i mean hours can go by  
and i i look up at the clock and say oh my word you know  
in fact i'd rather read sometimes than watch t v  
but i think you get out of the habit like you say  
you have to like kind of set yourself  
yep  
no  
yeah  
right  
see that's the other problem i have  
if i start into something and i really enjoy what i'm reading   then i have a terrible time getting away from it too  
i'll stay up until two or three o'clock in the morning you know because i'm so engrossed in it  
and then before you know it it's time to get up and go to work  
you know that type of thing  
that's why  
i i don't know  
i'm i'm kind of a nut when it comes to stuff like that  
even if i'm uh doing something like an afghan if i'm close to the end sometimes i'll do the same thing  
i don't know what you would call it  
maybe i have a problem  
it's terrible  
i i really like books that that you can get into  
and that's that  
oh yeah  
you do  
you kind of get relaxed  
that's true  
i have a lot of craft books that i have too and uh magazines  
i like people you know those things that are about real people  
and um i i like to uh read about people who have been a successful   you know who who made a success of their lives  
uh   to to give you specific titles i i can't  
like i say haven't done it in in such a long time  
um well i went to uh seminar on uh  
it was for by american business  
and some of the people uh  
what the heck was his name  
i'm trying to think  
he's one of the uh  
[paroe]  
and um it was more like oh  
it was tapes and things that they had about him too  
how he started out as just a salesman and now he's you know multimillionaire and that type of thing  
and how you have to uh be aggressive and you know really want something for yourself and that type of stuff  
it's like up to you in other words whatever happens in your life  
it's not up  
it's not someone else  
you have to do it  
and i find that fascinating that people you know can do that kind of thing just make up their minds that that's it you know have this one direction  
do it  
i can't  
i'm not that focused on something  
i i'm off in all directions  
um and i'm not uh uh a planner which i wish i was  
you know kind of off the wall  
if someone says do you want to do this tonight uh and i got a mountain of things to do it's okay you know we do it  
i know  
i know  
but i wish i was more the other way  
yeah  
right  
i i  
that's  
see i like it that way though  
i i i would i don't want to change that part of me  
that's funny  
even though i admire someone who isn't   like i am you know and and i wish i could be more that way  
but  
that's true  
that's true  
how many people do you supervise  
oh that's not bad  
that's not bad at all  
do you like your job  
oh that's   oh that's important  
do you have a family  
oh uh_huh  
do you like it  
i i loved i loved abilene too  
that's what i liked too is the weather  
except for tornados  
yes  
they do  
and it it   it's so surprising how it just happens you know  
unpredictable  
uh no  
oh i've been up here about three  
uh we were down there uh from eighty six to eighty five to eighty six  
no uh  

well part of eighty four to eighty six i should say  
oh wow  
oh jeez  
i know the whole situation is bad up here  
we're having a terrible time with the recession  
yeah  
yeah  
it's not good at all  
i know things are pretty [booming] down there  
i heard they sold johnson city though  
and colorado springs  
oh wow  
amazing  
oh well that's good  
at least they kept the business part of it  
it's scary though i'm telling you  
i don't know  
and well you know with the other part of this thing was how do you feel that this influences family  
that that books influence  
do you know how to use them in your life or to influence  
i i feel like it's important for young children to read too   and what you read to them  
when my children were younger of course  
they were all married and grown  
and i have grandchildren now  
they were uh  
i i read to them a lot  
and uh i think they've all developed kind of an interest in reading also  
i'm not saying they read all the right things  
but they do read uh where a lot of people don't have any interest in it at all  
and i think it's important  
because uh even today where people are so [illiterate] and they go off to school and really nothing happens i mean they don't learn anything  
it's because they can't read  
yeah  
oh it's unbelievable  
isn't it  
yeah  
exactly  
and i think that that's why reading is so important  
because uh i think even mentally when you can do some  
tell me what books you read  
um  
i try to avoid the  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that does cut into your   reading time a lot  
yeah  
well my   my kids are up   and out of the house now  
so you know i will uh encourage you that you do get a little more time to yourself later on  
i   won't say what  
yeah  
oh uh well i read for a living  
uh   i'm an editor  
and   so i i'm at the  
center for advanced study of the behavioral sciences and therefore   i read uh psychology sociology [anthropology] political science philosophy linguistics history   uh  
yeah  
and you name it  
i've read some of it  
it really is  
it's   it's a great place to be  
and the uh  
it's nice to work with people uh who are not required to use your services and so therefore are grateful and not arguing with you about them  
if they don't   want an editor they don't come  
um  
no  
we   don't  
uh normally we don't publish uh things under our own   [imprint]  
uh   we have books that are written here that are then published by all sorts of different uh commercial and academic [publishers] and university [presses]  
so uh i end up sometimes reading the things that are written here all the way through sometimes just a few chapters because that's as far as they get  
but i also get of course lots of references to neat stuff to read about  
so i'm uh i was just thinking when they told me the topic i should just i should read the uh titles of the five books that are sitting on my desk right now that i'm in the middle of  
and uh i'm reading uh within the [plantation] household which is a history uh sort of a [sociological] history of southern women black and white   living on [plantations]   uh a book called [poisons] of the past which is about [ergotisms] that uh fungus that grows on rye  
it causes the uh uh   saint [anthony's] fire disease where   people fell into fits  
and   there is a a theory at least that a lot of people who were accused of witchcraft were actually under the influence of [erga]  
and a book called job cues gender cues which explains uh how certain professions and [vocations] get uh flip [flopped] from one gender [predominance] to the other  
like   uh nursing   started out all men and then in the nineteenth century began to have women  
and now it's practically all women  
and that uh  
that's right  
and the   thing that changed that was the manual typewriter  
it   then it became you see just sort of a clerical task  
when you wrote it out in long hand you were a  
yes  
you were a [confidential] assistant to the   person  
right  
and then   i've got a book called fashions in science which is a sociology that explains uh why certain theories get to be popular in uh sociology and uh how difficult it is to swim against the [tide] if you have a different idea that isn't [vatted] by your peers  
and then i have one novel that's called first light  
that's about uh [archaeology]   the british novel  
so it's really quite interesting  
i haven't   got too   far into it yet  
uh those are   all books that are out uh published and bound now  
but they're just things   that [pertain] to various things i'm working on or were uh mentioned [prominently] and attracted my curiosity  
so i got them out of the library and decided i'd read some more in them  
so i read a lot of history and uh a few novels occasional mystery stories just   for fun  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
oh hey  
that's   a nifty idea  
great  
oh i think the   the boom to parents and the the [shoelace] department was those little velcro tabs  
i think that's incredibly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what do you think is   the most promising or practical book uh of that kind you've read recently  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i knew   his literary agent in houston when she was just uh convincing him to write all this down  
he was   teaching  
yeah  
i i saw one of those episodes on p b s  
uh   from time to time out here we have four different p b s channels that we can get on the cable  
and   they'll have all ten of those shown back to back   in the middle of the night for people can video tape them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
oh  
oh there's some   absolutely wonderful illustrated   children's books  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh well  
yeah  
i read   the publisher's weekly   uh which lists all the [upcoming] books [forthcoming] books  
and   uh there are so many that look like they would just be absolutely wonderful  
but i was tickled to see that some publisher is uh [reprinting] the the james [thurber] books for children the   wonderful o and the thirteen clocks that have been out of print for about oh i think about twenty years  
well   i had those for my kids  
and they really did   enjoy them  
oh   but they were   old copies then  
i didn't buy them when my kids were little  
and so they probably were out of print all of already when my kids were small  
but um   i   was really happy to see that  
yeah  
i guess it's in honor of his [hundredth]  
oh boy  
well um i haven't been doing a whole lot of reading for enjoyment lately  
i read uh one book a friend recommended to me  
i can't even remember the guy's name  
it was a science fiction dean cole or something like that  
and it was so frightening  
and it had so much violence in it  
i just   could hardly stand it  
yeah  
i didn't think it was so great  
she thought it was [riveting] you know  
but i couldn't deal with that  
but um mostly i read  
i'm a marriage and family counselor  
and mostly i read things to do with raising kids  
and now i have two little kids  
or co dependency or you know fifty thousand things like john [bradshaw's] books on uh the family and   homecoming and inner child and so  
i read usually that kind of stuff  
if  
and right now i'm reading um judith [viorst's] book called necessary losses where she talks about different losses that we've had in our lives that we have to get past if we're going to mature and   so  
in in my spare time with a two and a half and a three and a half year old   i i read  
yeah  
that's really changed my reading habits because i used to read so much especially when i was in school  
you know but gosh it's uh it's getting pathetic now  
if   i get through   a magazine i've been  
yeah  
later you're   probably looking for your kids  
so you can talk to them when they're out running around with friends  
yeah  
what do you read  
you do  
who  
oh well how interesting  
what kind of books  
um  
oh   my goodness  
yeah  
well that sounds like a fascinating job  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
well you probably  
i i seem to remember that uh little [byline] on a lot of things i've read  
um is is is that um  
do they have a mail kind of campaign that they send to professionals in the   social  
no  
um  
that sounds so familiar  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh   that sounds interesting  
yeah  
oh  
i thought that was going to be  
oh  
oh my goodness  
huh  
uh_huh  
nursing  
or  
yeah  
secretaries  
i bet that used to be mostly men who were secretaries of any type for business  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
then you were important  
yeah  
yeah  
like the [scribes] who did the old documents you know for churches and    
yeah  
well that's interesting  
uh_huh  
um  
gosh  
really  
so are you reading these in the form of just like printed manuscripts   that have not been  
huh  
yeah  
my goodness  
well that's fascinating  
gosh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  

i never have gotten into any of the romantic novels or any of that kind of stuff  
my husband reads a lot of the um  
well he did before we had kids   the star trek and all those kind of [sci] fi kinds of   things   you know  
but he's got a quite a collection of those  
but uh my stuff uh [revolves] around uh one one let's see  
i've got one called one thousand practical parenting tips   which teaches you to put elastic instead of [shoelaces]   in your kid's shoes  
hey  
i've done that to every pair my three year old has  
you know really  
and uh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
but there's a surprising number that are still around that aren't that don't have those  
so that's an alternate means of dealing with  
but um i'm trying to think of what else i've got  
uh since i'm um a therapist and all i've done recently a lot of research into some of the twelve step groups  
so i've got all the different alcoholics what they call the blue the blue book the big book   and all the o a literature and all the coda literature  
so i'm trying to get more [familiarized] with that because i refer clients and different groups  
and uh   well let's see   i'm trying to think of the  
um oh i i have a love affair with john bradshaw  
i just have found everything i've read of his to be fabulous   um  
he started out with one called the family which does the family systems and people's roles in the family  
and then he did uh healing the shame that [binds] you   about how shame can just be so [paralyzing] and people isolate and withdraw  
and then the third one that he came out with is now called homecoming  
uh and uh there's a [subtitle] to it  
i never can remember what it is  
it's something like um a journey in in your inner   child or something like that  
oh   he's just great  
and now he's had the the first the first one and the third one put into a ten session uh p b s series  
yeah  
oh  
i know  
yeah  
so people can just tape them i guess   you know  
but i definitely have gotten a lot out of his lately  
he's just probably been one of the most  
there's an author that's in um that's in uh arizona who used to be in dallas  
it seems like we have a lot of these that have been in   texas called p m [melody] who does a lot of writing on co dependency  
and she's got some fabulous [workbooks] out and a whole series of tapes and uh   a [workbook] called breaking free and just some real uh helpful practical things for co dependency  
so that's been another one that i've thought was real helpful but other than that uh my reading centers on [paddington] bear   and [winnie] the pooh   and   doctor [seuss]  
but i really have enjoyed exploring children's literature because there's so much more uh new things out that you know  
i i'd pull out the classics once in a while for my kids  
but there's such cute things   out for kids  
oh i know  
and i just go to the library because i just they're expensive  
i mean it  
and they go through them so fast   you know  
so i just i really have been going to the library and getting my ten books out  
and they just love to sit and read  
and now finally the littlest one is oldest to to sit you know and watch the pictures instead of grabbing it and trying   to rip the pages out  
so that that has been fun to do do that you   know go through the children's literature   and uh   uh  
uh_huh  
oh wonderful  
gosh  
really  
well i'm going to have to   look for those  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
what do you read  
what is your favorite  
oh i am not much into magazines  
i do read them  
i like good housekeeping and stuff like that  
i will get   ideas out for my own house and yard and stuff  
main thing i like [pierce] anthony  
i love [pierce] anthony novels  
figures what like those uh magazines you get through the mail  
i  
uh_huh  
what about like those time books that they put out about uh uh-oh ancient discoveries  
you know  
how they found out like that uh ancient man performed uh brain surgery successfully  
and stuff like   that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh i like far out facts or whatever  
i like to read stuff like that  
but i am a superficial buff  
i cannot take a day i just  
superficial  
i like i like it if it is fun  
i do not get too into it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well  
because you read it  
you are an   engineer  
are you an engineer for t i  
okay uh  
i worked at t i for a little while  
uh we have got a book that says uh how do they do that  
and it answers everything  
yeah  
and i  
well not everything  
but a lot of silly little questions  
like what makes a [firefly] light   you know  
now  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that do not  
yeah  
yeah  
we used  
my little sister was blind and going to school  
and she would have to come home at night cut out different  
she was not fully blind just legally blind  
but she would have to cut out different colors  
and that is the best book to go through those national   geographic  
and they are great  
oh now i do like national geographic and stuff because i like i said i like reading about i don't know animals  
i love reading about animals  
the [gorillas] and stuff  
and the [sloth] it fascinates me  
that's something moves that slow  
and it is just weird  
oh well  
yeah  
well we can talk about anything we want  
well for me   there is no  
well you know  
the financial pages does not hit me directly which i am sure it does if i get into it  
but like i said i do not keep up on all that  
yeah  
the  
yeah  
with everything   going down  
yeah  
i know i heard bush say that you know we are either [bottoming] out or seem to be  
but that is bush saying that  
yeah  
well i like ann [landers]  
no  
i like getting the paper and reading the want ads  
and just  
i do skim over it  
but mainly i am a front page person  
i do not go into the details  
well i know at t i they have most of the stuff on the printout don't they i mean on the computer where you can read the daily   news  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
when i  
huh  
when i worked at t i i read that more than i read the regular newspaper   because i would read that every day because you would find ten minutes here that you do not have anything to do  
i know you do being an engineer  
there are some times when you have got ten or fifteen or even an hour off  
not much  
not in the area i worked in  
we had an engineer in there every ten minutes  
so  
yeah  
well it just encouraged me to read it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well see that is me with the newspaper   especially financial page  
i do not  
uh i read it so less  
and i watch so little t v i did not even know what the deal was with this uh-oh  
i cannot remember his name now  
him and his wife are getting divorced  
and he is [tycoon] or something  
what is his name  
yeah  
trump  
i did not even know i still do not know what the whole deal was with that  
oh  
yeah  
immediately  
so that is all it was  
he was just having an affair on his wife  
huh  
oh  
that has got to be hard to go from really rich   to poor   which i am sure he ain't poor  
yeah  
huh  
well see that is like i said i like i do not watch much t v any more either  
but i have got three kids  
so it is hard to watch t v   except for donald duck  
well anyway i have enjoyed talking to you  
yeah  
and have a good holiday  
bye bye  
uh well i read everything uh i guess uh  

uh well i like all kinds uh  
in fact i was just reading uh a magazine now an automobile magazine  
uh i like historical uh books time magazine newspaper how how to do it type things uh uh  
uh_huh  
oh the novels yeah  
no  
i am not into soap soaps and all that stuff  
i am uh not into novels at all really other than historical things  
uh uh i am kind of a a chore person  
i like to do  
i am again i am a fix it person  
i i would read all those kinds of things  
yeah  
i will buy car magazines  
course i am an engineer  
and i read the engineering magazines   and the money magazines  
and uh well i am reading historical uh not a novel but historical book now about the uh russia before uh the czar not before the czar during the [czar's] time and what it was like and everything  
oh you   mean the ancient astronauts things  
i have read some of that  
i i did not  
some of that is uh   it is very interesting without question  
i i do not really know that they have the answers in those books  
they make conclusions in them that may or   may not be true  
but they are very interesting   that they have   what they have discovered  
yeah  
you are what kind of buff  
oh okay  
oh yeah  
right  
well i am kind of a hobbyist  
so i i read all those things that uh  
and being an engineer all those books that would bore everybody else you know how to do things  
i am one of those crazy people that reads the directions  
it always make my wife mad  
i  
when she ever there is something i say well have you read the directions  
no  
i hate reading the directions  
i say well engineers we we are the few people in the world   that read   the directions yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh really  
oh yeah  
that  
oh  
yeah  
those are oh interesting  
oh you like science things  
uh i have not gotten them in a long time  
what is that uh one that is on t v  
that book uh national geographic is really a fascinating book uh   uh if you ever get those  
or  
but i have not gotten them in years uh  
they were kind of expensive  
i know people just collect them like they are  
uh  
they have wonderful [photographs] and just amazing [photographs] that   they have done  
yeah  
it is  
it is  
they they they uh  
the [photographers] just got   fantastic pictures in those things uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
you know i have not uh  
of course was it all books and things  
or was it any  
did it say anything about newspapers  
i have forgotten what the question was exactly  
but uh   what do you read i guess in general  
or  
yeah  
uh i i glance at all newspapers  
i do like uh  
since the since the economy is doing so bad i never have read the uh uh financial pages more often than now you know and trying to analyze and look for some good news in in there you know uh   to see if the  
well i have only been more interested because of things are doing so bad and everything  
i thought   well uh see if there is anything in there that uh uh would be positive you know  
you always look for things with   with this terrible recession that we are in uh   to see if there is any  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it is uh  
hopefully uh we will recover here uh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
and he he  
yeah  
i know  
i do not really know if uh any one person knows uh   uh what some of the problems are  
uh but there there are some there are some interesting things in the paper really  
yeah  
it  
yeah  
no  
i glance at it  
i i  
with the so much uh  
you sound like you have a family too  
but with a family and everything there is just so much going on that i uh actually i am more of a  
not more of a radio buff  
but uh it is easier to do when i do some chores   or yard work or anything put the radio on and listen to that  
and  
oh   yeah  
i do  
every time i come in uh i will punch up  
but they call it t news and all that  
and i i do get uh  
it gets a little bit of everything  
even the the last page is uh is sport uh listings and and different things uh and world news   you know about   you can read it in one minute you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
it is it is it is uh interesting uh with the computer to read the computer news and   all that  
i i guess that is a that is a source of reading  
i hadn't thought about that in that respect uh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it it does have a good uh simple uh you know  
again you can read it in uh in a lot less than ten minutes  
it is usually  
you can you can page through it in  
i do not read everything on  
some of the stuff is pretty boring  
i i skip over some of that  
but uh   uh it is  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
oh yeah uh  
uh trump  
donald trump  
yeah  
well i guess because he was so rich you know  
when you are that rich uh you always get into the paper whatever if you have a family problem whatever  
well he had a young girlfriend  
he was he is well into his forties  
and i guess he got a young girlfriend who uh  
and and then every every time you take  
you you are that rich you just get uh in that uh in the news immediately you know   uh which is tough  
well that  
and uh his business is going down the tubes so bad you know  
he was uh uh essentially like you said a [tycoon]  
uh donald trump and had it all  
he was high roller for about ten years  
and then he is now uh essentially bankrupt you know  
and so uh  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
right uh  
who knows uh   what he has really got  
but uh he was kind of an arrogant guy  
so i think the newsmen uh enjoyed uh writing about him on his way down you know  
and his wife was very uh uh seemed to be very smart and actually running some of his business  
it was uh she was actually somewhat of a business partner of his uh did very well  
[ivana] trump uh  
oh yeah  
they have been on all the news and everything in the in the papers and uh uh on barbara walters and everything else  
huh  
oh yeah  
i can imagine  
right  
yeah  
uh uh i know what you mean really  
okay  
yeah  
well uh hang in there  
and good luck with those kids  
right  
bye bye  
hi ed  
hi  
oh  
who wrote that  
huh  
i see  
well that is interesting  
right  
that is an intriguing type of book to be reading and trying to keep up on things like that  
uh_huh  
and they have not made a movie of the week of it yet  
yeah  
uh  
explained  
supposedly [scooped] up by the triangle  
yeah  
yeah  
on that same topic have you ever read anything about you know the [amelia] [earhart] story whatever happened with her  
i i think that would be  
i am sure there is something out there uh  
i thought she was a prisoner of war or something for like ten years  
well whatever this is one aspect of it  
of course you know it is so weird  
cause no one will ever really know  
it's it  
so but it's entertaining  
and it makes you think about things  
that is for sure  
yeah  
right  
well i i guess i just have not read  
i mean usually i just if i find a good book i will sit you know for two days until it is finished if it's that good  
and i think the last one i read like that was scott [thurow's]  
and that was presumed innocent  
and i just really really liked the way he writes  
it's just   incredible  
yeah  
uh  
that was good i think  
and and the other book i am trying to think you know like was in the last year  
and i think i did read tom wolfe and [vanity] uh  
[bon]  
yeah  
uh  
yeah  
i  
that was really really good  
the movie was nothing compared to the book  
and  
yeah  
oh the movie was a joke compared to  
i mean because tom wolfe is so [perceptive]   when it comes to you know [pinpointing] uh society's [ills] and   things like that and just [nailing] people to the wall and [exposing] things  
and   and so it was it was a much more intense book than the sort of [flimflam] that they cast off in the movie  
and anyway we are not talking about that  
but uh gee i just i like to read gardening books and things like that just to tell me what to do with my garden  
and uh   and uh  
yeah  
like what is a book on your list  
you know i have a list too  
and i have never gotten to it  
oh  
hi  
uh books  
i've actually i am reading a couple of different books uh  
one is uh a story  
well it is not a story  
it is a collection of uh of memos supposedly written by howard hughes uh  
that was uh that was  
it came out a couple of years ago  
and i have just now gotten around to reading it  
i have had it a couple years  
but uh  
oh i do not remember the man's name  
he was used to be a reporter for uh i think the new york times or the washington post one of the two  
and he supposedly got this this story uh i mean this uh was contacted by this guy who had these these memos he wanted to sell  
and they were they were ones that had supposedly been stolen from the uh corporate headquarters in uh in los angeles  
they on  
i think it was [romain] drive or [romain] street or something there in los angeles  
they used to have a  
or i guess they still do uh  
had a uh uh big warehouse kind of thing which had offices  
and it was sort of [nondescript] for a uh you know for the size of the company which inside was basically a store house of a bunch of stuff he collected  
he he was uh a great collector of everything  
he he he did not he did not throw anything away  
and uh supposedly this guy had had been breaking there for  
he was a like you know burglar had been breaking there awhile and uh   and had ended up  
he had some [accomplices] that were kind of suspect  
and they uh they broke in one one night and found a bunch of memos that were uh supposedly from from hughes to uh to his main uh main assistant back uh in the fifties and well i guess in the sixties   up until his death  
so it's pretty interesting work  
so  
yeah  
it's a it's a little it's a little hard  
you have to [plod] through it  
and you know it does not have a real story or any plot  
you just kind of have to read and understand what is going on  
no  
i have not seen it  
but it's but it is it is real interesting  
uh i also reading uh the uh  
it's a an old another old book that i happen to have  
i am sort of [rereading] it  
it's uh a book about uh the bermuda triangle  
but it's uh it's about it's a real good book that a guy uh wrote who was uh a research librarian  
he wrote uh sort of [debunking] many of the uh uh the stories about the uh bermuda triangle you know  
he he was thinking many   many of the the myths many of the myths of the triangle were uh actually could be explained  
and you know uh and the reason i was picked it back up was in light of all the uh well when they found the uh the airplanes on the in the atlantic thinking they were flight nineteen  
and i don't know if you are familiar with that at all  
but it's uh  
flight nineteen was one of the uh was a a collection of a flight of five navy adventures at the end of world war two right after world war two  
and they were they were lost  
and uh  
yeah  
they were  
and so and in the book you know even  
he wrote this book back in the seventies  
and even and even then he he had a very good case for the fact they probably just got lost and they [ditched] in the water  
and uh because he he [mentions] he he goes through and brings out points from the [navy's] findings and so forth  
and uh it's probably you know real close to what you know everyone is thinking now that they just got turned around and could not find their way back  
uh no  
i have not  
yeah  
i would i would like to too  
because it's a lot of things coming up here lately about her you know possibilities of of where she  
uh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
so that is pretty much for right now  
that is   what i have been reading  
i kind of like to read different stuff  
and uh i like to read a novel every now and then  
but uh i am trying to get away from just reading novels all the time  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
i read that too  
i got it uh right   after it came out  
my uh you know  
he was an an assistant district attorney in chicago at uh and while he was writing the book  
and uh my sister in law lives in chicago  
and she had before it actually got big she sent me this book saying you might like this  
this guy is you know   from here  
and uh i read it and really liked it  
and then about  
that is when it really got big  
and uh so i  
[bonfire] of the [vanity]  
i have not read that although   i have heard it is pretty good  
yeah  
that is what i have heard  
i saw the movie  
and uh  
yeah  
right  
right  
i know  
yeah  
i have a lot of uh uh computer books that  
i am i do computer work  
and so i have a lot of those  
so i spend a lot of time looking through those not necessarily reading them but   looking through them  
but i i'm interested in a lot of that  
but uh i have got a lot of books that i i intend to read  
but i have not been able to yet you know for one reason or another  
oh gosh i do not i do not really have a list  
cause i just kind of uh i just have all the books out you know  
i have book shelves  
and i have them all out  
and usually when i am through with one i will go in and uh uh uh look look through uh  
i have one now and i i can not remember the name of it that i that i got is  
the sister in law in chicago usually sends me for my birthday or or christmas or something will send me another another good book  
and uh   uh  
i have one  
and i can not remember the name of it uh  
it is supposed to be a mystery  
yeah  
yes  
i talked with um i talked with people from richardson and plano  
and uh the first three days  
and then yesterday i talked with someone with from pennsylvania  
so  
it's the  
oh  
oh i know  
sometimes i just  
i'm in  
it just takes a very long time  
so  
yeah  
i know  
well  
this is hilarious  
oh well tell me what books have you read lately  
well i don't read all that much for enjoyment  
i mean i read a lot for school  
but gee i just don't have much time for enjoyment reading  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
interesting  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that kind of was um kind of a pop psychology time for when a lot of books like that were coming out i think  
and so that makes real sense that that's um when it was written  
um i haven't wasn't really aware that she had written anything for um adults  
i was always   just more aware of her you know  
for her young people her books  
uh_huh  
i'll be darned  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i wonder if she's written anything really recently if she's got anything printed in print  
uh_huh  
i'll be darned  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's  
i'm trying to think the last actual book i read that wasn't  
let's see i think i read oh  
when i was on vacation um between semester break and summer you know on semester break between spring and summer  
and i went to my mother's  
i read a book that i have should have read when i was probably in high school  
i read um jane eyre  
no  
wait a minute  
wait a minute  
wait a minute  
jane eyre  
no  
no  
no  
no  
it wasn't jane eyre  
no  
it was um uh pride and prejudice   by jane austen  
that's what it was  
yes  
and um you know i i didn't know what to expect except i had heard that that jane austen was such a wonderful [novelist]  
and she really was good  
i mean i was was very much impressed with the way her plot was put together so   [intricately]  
and um and you know i just  
but i as i say i was pretty much ashamed that i hadn't read something before then  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh how interesting  
yeah  
oh i'll bet  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
i wouldn't be   surprised  
yeah  
sure  
oh yeah  
well i read that  
and then i'm trying to think um  
usually i try to to find something long that   i'm going to  
when  
if if i have long periods of time like christmas vacation or you know when i know i'm not going to be doing anything for a while um  
yeah  
and that's about it because otherwise i'm reading so much for school  
i'm um i have just started reading a book  
actually it's for school  
but it's for um  
there's a a literary  
well not a literary journal  
it's a it's kind of a journal of of the history of ideas that's that's starting to be published um from u t d  
the first issue doesn't come out until next year  
but um  
i'm doing some reviews of books just to what to sort of recommend to whether or not a full scale review should be done for the journal  
and i've  
yeah  
it's really neat because these are brand new books  
and i   just got a i got a this one  
um most of the stuff is on uh literary [criticism] and philosophy   and religion and all that  
this one is on [johann] [sebastian] bach  
and it's a a a biography   that is really interesting  
i mean it it's fascinating  
it really is  
um but it's so long  
i i don't really have the time to read the whole thing  
but i think   eventually i'll go back to it  
but it's   it was written  
i mean the the [copyright] is nineteen ninety one  
so it's a brand new book  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and he really this man really shed some light on um some   aspects of of [bach's] genius and and and you know the and more [sociological] things you know like the the idea that um that music to be a musician was as much um of a family occupation as anything  
i mean you know that was   it was families had just loads of musicians  
yeah  
that's right  
yes  
uh_huh  
and um  
yeah  
so uh  
it was just really interesting  
if that's you know that's kind of what  
but i have to  
not only am am i reading it to decide whether or not it should be reviewed but also um because the board of [advisers] for this um journal doesn't have right now doesn't have a really respected name um who's a uh a scholar on on music  
um and i'm supposed to decide whether i think this man might be a worthy person to be a you know in that position on the board  
so  
i don't know if i want to take that responsibility or not  
but   but at least i   can tell them what i think  
so um   it's real interesting  
yeah  
it is  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
that it  
you know you see you see a lot of small colleges doing things   like that  
right  
uh_huh  
because it attracts really a a lot people's interest  
that's one way  
it's really good public relations for small schools  
i think so  
but uh another one of my projects this summer is actually it's part of my research [assistantship] is um it's helping a professor uh [compile] a bunch of translations of of various [poems] for a book that he's writing  
and   so i'm learning the names if not the actual [contents] of a lot of different [poems] and a lot of french people  
um well where where for instance um a [baudelaire] poem that was written   in the french and then has been translated into english by   various people  
and the translations are all so different from one another  
uh_huh  
so it's multiple translations of single works  
and and that's right now right now pretty much what i'm doing as far as um  
my work is just kind of [compiling]   all that for him  
so  
it's real interesting  
oh well let me tell you   there are days when i would be prefer   really doing that  
i don't know if i've told you  
but um this is not on the subject  
yeah  
because  
i've only made  
this is only my third call  
i i tried to make calls two different days  
and i couldn't get through  
does it  
yeah  
i've been trying to you know do that  
and and sometimes i just can't wait that long  
so i just hang up   because it keeps going through the thing over and over again  
but i knew as soon as i heard your voice  
i thought [kathy's] it's kathy [kester]  
well let's see  
i um gosh i can't even think  
i haven't read any  
and you're such a reader i know that  
and i  
yeah  
the the last book i picked up was a book by judy bloom  
and it was um it was called um smart women i think   um or something like that  
and it was it was kind of  
i really didn't like it at all  
it was it was written back in the early eighties  
and it was all this this um divorced woman syndrome   of the um  
it was almost like a a pre aids scare kind of thing  
it was really an interesting  
because i i right away looked at when it was [copyrighted]   because i could tell by the theme of almost when it was written  
and it was all about women searching for themselves   and um you know a lot of [hanky] [panky]   going on  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and she's more famous for that  
but she has been writing for adults also  
and so i thought hey i'll just try this you know   and see what it was like  
it was very um  
the style was very [conversational]  
you would have lots of conversations between people   rather than any description  
you know how that is  
and um  
yeah  
she has  
because i i remember seeing a new book by her   that was out  
and i think it was a it was an adult book  
so anyway  
but that's the last thing i i've read  
and um  
yeah  
i  
[wuthering] heights  
oh yeah  
by jane austen  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because i i think i was i think i read it in college   or had to write it read it in high school or college  
but i don't remember it  
and then when [jennie] had to read it at gettysburg   and i got her the i got her someone  
i think it was um oh some actress reading it  
you know they had an [abridged] version of it on tape  
and so i got that for her  
and she loved doing that  
but i remember that was the book  
and now i i mean i think it's around here somewhere  
i'm just going to have to put it   in the car sometimes and listen to it  
but um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that's what i do too  
oh yeah  
oh how neat  
oh great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh great  
oh that's fascinating  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh it's a brand new book  
oh that that would be wonderful   to read something like that  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
and they just went from generation   probably to generation   just with these with these all passing it from one to the other  
yeah  
that's the way it was i'm sure back then  
yeah  
oh that's interesting  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
wow that's rough  
that's real rough  
yeah  
well that's a neat thing to be involved in   because i think our i think my alma mater um gettysburg i think they were just starting a magazine   that was similar to that  
i think that's probably a sort of a thing to do   in small colleges  
but um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
oh  
now translations what do you mean translations of of  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
all different  
oh that's interesting  
gosh  
that's great  
boy you really lift me up to a different  
i mean here i i'm dealing with uh   cleaning the stove  
and  
you know i'm   i wish i were dealing with [baudelaire]  
that would be nice  
okay  
well uh some of the books i've read lately have to do with crafty type things where i've where i've um learned things that i'm going to do for my children for christmas  
and they were really uh helpful because i didn't know how to do this one stitching  
and so that was very helpful to me as far as books  
otherwise um i like to read children's books and things like that  
what about you  
oh  
um  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
it's interesting that you said that  
my husband and i had uh took a book out of the library about gardening too and started a garden a fall garden  
um  
oh yeah  
and our our uh [cantaloupes] and and um peppers and tomatoes are on right now  
so it's been really fun  
and and we learned that you know um some of the gardening skills we had were before  
but some of them we learned from a book  
and so that was helpful to us  
now i've read two books uh that were uh nonfiction lately  
and uh i  
well one was nonfiction and one was fiction  
and the fiction one uh was about a boy in uh during the time of [adolf] hitler  
and he grew up and lived through a concentration camp  
and that was not enjoyment  
that that was too realistic and really um mind a real eye opener uh  
and i guess it's good to read those things too uh  
but i didn't enjoy it necessarily  
and uh the other one was quite enjoyable  
it was uh about a a chinese lady and her generations down her what happened to her family through the years  
so that one was good  
i think all of  
well even if they're not enjoyable they bring you a uh some kind of of learning  
so even if it's the country that they're from or anything like that  
so i i i like to read the the children's books  
i think that's the most animated and [imaginative]  
so i like those a lot  
oh there are a couple of [newberry] award winners  
uh a [wrinkle] in time is one  
i don't know if you've ever read that  
but but um oh there's one about an indian girl  
and i can't think of that  
island of the blue [dolphins] is another  
and that's a good one  
now some of the ones that have just received the awards this year i haven't read  
and i would like to read those  
but uh it's funny because i've read some from like nineteen twenty three and nineteen forty five and things like that  
and i didn't enjoy those as much  
and i don't know if it's just because they didn't come from my era or what  
but uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
even that's good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh my children and i uh i started a thing where i read a book with them before they went   to bed at night  
and there was one called the pig princess  
and it was a a princess from a long long time ago  
and she came through a a spell kind of thing and ended up in a pig um [sty]  
and the people that she came to were just farm people  
and she didn't understand them  
and they didn't understand her  
but it came together in this book  
and it was really a lot of fun  
uh_huh  
oh goodness  
well i was an english major  
so i like to read period  
uh lately i've been on the whole very practical  
and uh i'm trying um to to uh [furnish] a home  
so i've been looking at i'm not sure reading is the word but looking at books on uh antiques and [paintings] and uh interior decoration hints   and uh lots of books on plants and and and gardens because we started a garden   and things things like that  
so i've been doing very little reading except i i did finally dip into a couple of biographies um all of sort of literary figures of this century  
oh  
good for you  
i haven't gotten around to that  
uh_huh  
yes  
um  
um  
no  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh what are your favorite children's books  
uh_huh  
no  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's interesting  
i i i  
well you can't be an english major unless you like reading things from the past  
so i've read a great deal of old things  
i tend to go go back  
i don't have any children  
so i don't read the new ones  
but i occasionally if no one's looking   dip into something like [winnie] the pooh     or uh uh the [grimm's] [fairy] [tales] or something like that   um just because it's sheer magic  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
i think that uh we we  
uh i guess  
i don't know  
it's the first time i've made a phone call on it  
right  
i read uh a lot of steven king dean r koontz uh   some danielle steel  
my aunt got me hooked on those  
so i  
yeah  
they're all novels  
i'll read some uh classic too  
uh like the graduate by [steinbeck]  
i'll uh  
a a rose family by [faulkner] that's one of my favorites  
oh and this this is more of a play or something that that it was from that that i saw  
and i read the book from that  
and by the way my name's bill  
i'm from north carolina  
uh i  
let's see  
what kind of books do you like to read  
i really have to be in the mood  
i i read one like maybe once a year  
i'm not as  
i've never read anything by him  
yeah  
okay  
i like to read a lot of non fiction history when   civil war era and and that kind of thing  
i found that real interesting  
i'm reading the [lion] and the wind right now  
and that was on t v  
it was uh during teddy [roosevelt's] time   and uh about a american woman that got kidnapped in uh morocco  
uh this is when they were having their revolution   or whatever  
and teddy roosevelt sent troops over and really [portrays] him as a kind of a crazy man you know  
surprised me  
i had no idea that he was like that  
well just like some one quote that he had was that he thought the america's [emblem] was stupid because it was an eagle  
and it should be a grizzly bear because  
you you know like the grizzly and stuff like that  
so it's  
i saw the movie  
and that's what made me want to read the book  
[candice] [bergen] was in the movie  
i'm a real big fan of hers  
so  
uh_huh  
i like i like to read   some of the philosophy stuff  
yeah  
i think that  
i'm fascinated by that  
yeah  
i'm fascinated by that  
that  
and and uh even stuff about not like ghost stories but real [encounters] with ghosts and   supposedly [haunted] houses  
i like  
i'm kind of a [doubting] thomas  
and i like to read stuff like that  
some of it really   freaks me out  
and i like to read uh i like to read some self help books like uh  
i read [dianetics] once once i got past all the [gibberish] on it  
it was okay  
it it it it took me a while to really get into it  
it it didn't help me that much  
but uh i think once you're set in your ways you're set in your ways  
uh then i  
one real interesting book i read recently was when i was looking for a job  
i read how to get the job that you wanted  
and it it had real good tips  
and it  
and   i got the job that i wanted by applying the the methods that that  
all right  
so we started recording already  
oh so you pressed one  
okay  
so i guess we're supposed to start talking  
uh what kind of books do you read  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so it's mostly all novels  
okay  
oh like what  
yeah  
i like that  
i like [steinbeck] a lot  
i have never read a lot of [faulkner]  
oh cool  
i'm doug  
i'm from pennsylvania  
uh well a bunch of stuff i guess uh fair number of novels but mostly shorter ones  
and like i don't really like the you know six hundred page long stephen king novels and all that  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
like i like say uh richard [broudigan] a lot uh  
okay  
he's uh he's dead now  
but he was really a pretty amazing writer  
he wrote books that were like pretty short and pretty easy to read you know like written at a third grade level or whatever  
but they were still very heavy and philosophical also very funny  
like he wrote trout fishing in america  
so that's anyway  
and uh i read a lot of non fiction books too  
uh let's see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now what's that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what how crazy  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
cool  
see i also read a lot of books about music because i'm interested in that and fair number of stuff about science and also philosophy things  
like  
uh_huh  
like let's see  
and even like reading some new age things things that i don't quite believe in  
like here on my shelf i have a book called [journeys] out of the body  
it's all about   how to have out of body experiences and all that  
uh_huh  
yep  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
definitely  
uh  
uh did you like it  
uh_huh  
i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what kind of books do you like best  
huh yeah  
i've heard of that one  
i   don't think i've read it  
well uh i'm a tom [clancy] fan  
and i read  
i just finished a book on [novelle] [netware] uh  
that's computer stuff  
i do a lot   of computer reading  
and uh i'm just finishing another one up on uh statistical sampling  
so i do more work kind of related reading than uh just for enjoyment  
well that's pretty good  
oh i've had them like that before too  
mysteries  
any particular writer  
[ludwig]  

yes  
what does he write   oh  
so you kind of learn something as well as enjoy yourself  
raiders of the lost ark stuff  
oh  
what   what time is it there ten thirty  
uh it's nine thirty here  
uh presumed innocent  
oh i haven't seen the movie uh or read the book  
but   oh  
is she   is she kind of [racy]  
just feel good  
oh really  
my mother in law's a real fan of hers  
oh well that's nice  
yeah  
uh you mentioned sunday school [ladonna]  
uh do you  
are you a bible fan too  
oh yeah  
but uh that's always a challenge  
so do you do  
my wife talks with other people  
well i alternate between danielle steele is one of my very favorites  
and uh then i try to go into one of the self improvement books  
uh we we take books every once in a while in our sunday school class and go through them  
uh i love scott [peck] and his road less traveled  
oh it is   it is wonderful  
i i thoroughly enjoyed that  
what do you read  
okay  
oh yes  
i i try to keep a book going all the time  
uh i try to read when i first wake up in the morning and then before i go to sleep  
so i probably get oh thirty to fifty pages a day read  
and i just you know  
i don't feel like  
in fact this morning i was almost late for work because i'm almost at the end of this book  
and i didn't want to put it down  
but i like i like mysteries  
uh yes  
i like uh uh-oh  
i'm drawing a blank  
uh he wrote the uh [bourne] [ultimatum]  
[ludwig] yes  
and uh i like jeffrey [archer]  
he is an english author who writes some mystery  
uh well i guess they're they're a type of mystery  
they're usually some  
he's a ex lawyer  
so or he he's a lawyer who no longer practices  
but   his are all have some part of the law uh [enveloped] in them  
right  
and then uh the new author that came out with uh-oh the one that uh harrison ford starred in  
no  
no  
it was   the uh  
it's late  
i'm tired  
so i'm not   thinking too well  
uh_huh  
oh it's uh it was his first book  
it came it was on the top of the list uh  
he was a d a  
yes  
okay  
and then he's he came out with the second one  
uh a sequel to it  
and both of those i've enjoyed real well  
but i i like that  
i love danielle steele  
and and you know if i want to get a fantasy and   get away from it all  
no  
no  
she isn't at all  
her books uh  
you always cry  
i mean it's it's always good for good tears  
uh one book that she wrote that's good for both men and women is fine things  
f i n e things   well it's it's one that's you know  
it's it's always going to make you have a good cry  
and you know it's going it turn out good  
and you're going to be happy in the end  
and i said you know  
i don't want anything too real anymore  
i have enough of that in my own life  
i want i want happy fantasy  
like  
uh_huh  
uh i i do my share of it  
i i certainly can't say that i understand a lot of it  
arlington texas  
now since i got somebody from arlington virginia one day  
yeah  
oh  
birmingham  
right  
it's funny how many names have been used uh all over the country  
well to tell you the truth i've been going to college for the last four years  
so mainly   text books  
no um  
but i i really tend to like biographies a lot not necessarily always heavy ones  
but you know sometimes  
i just read one about grace kelley  
i love to read about real people  
to me half the time it's more fascinating than some of these made up stories  
yeah  
it happened  
really  
right  
i used to like to read about royalty a lot  
i when i was younger i read about every king and queen that lived i think in europe  
that was my thing for a while  
oh really  
oh it sounds like fun  
wonder if it was by one of those famous writers you know  
margaret truman [daniels] writes a lot those  
really  
sounds like something she would write  
yeah  
i've heard that she's done you know her books are really interesting  
and they always sell well  
and uh  
yeah  
brings it to life  
i know uh the some of the british people laugh at us because we're so enthralled with their royalty  
i know  
our movie stars  
oh right  
um  
oh yes  
oh i always like those  
have you ever read anything by susan [howatch]  
isn't she fabulous  
oh once you  
i don't like to get one of her books  
because   i i just live to read  
i'll i'll skip everything just to get back to the book  
oh yeah  
she's just a  
i don't know  
does she how often does she come out with them  
i probably have missed the last few since i've been back in school  
well she can she can turn them out overnight i swear  
yeah  
i've never read a whole one of hers i don't think  
and think how rich she is  
oh yeah  
and then make movies out of some of them  
well hers are so involved  
and they're so   such a higher intellectual level because she quotes a lot you know  
i do too  
so she couldn't possibly turn them out like some of these popular   writers  
but oh her books are just incredible  
i don't think they've ever made a movie do you  
yes  
well no uh  
i really just thought about it now  
but there's just  
maybe it's because they take so much in  
i don't know  
they're so big  
they're such you know  
it would be like another gone with the wind i guess   another three hour movie  
oh i know  
it's about one of my favorite movies  
no  
it had such a bad press  
i wasn't too  
uh_huh  
right  
me either  
do you know anyone that's read it  
no  
i haven't heard of anybody that's read it either  
i think it was on the best [seller] list though   for a while  
is that right  
well i never thought about that  
but there is an arlington  
like i had a call the other day from birmingham michigan   you know  
and i was thinking   yeah and i was thinking  
the only birmingham i could think of was alabama  
yeah  
well tell me what kind of books have you read  
i was going to say not fun kind right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it is  
because you know that's it's really and truly   a true thing  
you know i read one about bob hope that i liked  
yeah  
that was real good  
i'm like you  
if it's not a heavy biography you know   i enjoy it  
i was trying to think uh  
i read a uh a novel that used the names of like princess [di] and prince [phillip] coming over here to be entertained and all  
and there was a murder  
yeah  
it was some time ago  
seems like it was the spy went dancing or something like that  
it was a lot of fun because they used these real names you know  
yeah  
in fact i believe it was  
because  
uh_huh  
i believe  
yeah  
i think it was by her now that you mention it because someone had given it to me  
and i thought well this will be great  
and it was  
uh_huh  
well when you use real people like that i think   royalty especially you know  
yeah  
but you know that's like them being enthralled with our football and so forth you know  
our movie stars  
because it's totally different concept to us  
i haven't i haven't had a chance to read a lot lately either  
i have read uh mostly novels  
i went to visit my daughter in florida  
and i took a novel with me uh and read it at thanksgiving time  
and uh it was uh one of those generation novels you know  
starts out when they're small and continues through generations  
and i like that  
yes  
i have  
oh she is wonderful  
i stayed up one night i think until two   in the morning finishing one of hers because i i could not put it down  
well no  
it seems like she doesn't write as often as oh well like danielle steele and those silly things  
she writes the same thing  
yeah  
and and they're the same silly things  
i mean if you've read one i mean it's   it it's practically the same thing over and over you know  
yeah  
wouldn't i you know  
i'm [criticizing] her  
and wouldn't i like to have her money  
because they go from [hardback] to paperback  
and she has millions of them  
uh_huh  
you know mini series and so forth  
and it seems to me like susan [howatch] does not write as often  
i have not seen as many of hers  
uh_huh  
i think she does a lot of research too  
huh_uh  
no  
i don't think so  
and i've often wondered why haven't you  
you know i  
yeah  
uh_huh  
maybe they're just too involved for the average person to go and sit through them you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and maybe that turns people off  
but look at gone with the wind you know  
uh have you uh gotten into [scarlett] yet  
yeah  
that's exactly what i was going to say  
i was amazed  
because i  
in the beginning when it was on you know on route coming out   i heard mixed publicity   kind of good and bad  
and then when it came out all i heard was just oh how bad it was that i didn't even want to get it  
huh_uh  
no  
well   it wouldn't surprise me  
okay  
uh read any good books lately  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh well i'm in graduate school  
and so i read a lot of books  
but i don't know if i consider very many of them good  
uh i haven't read a book for enjoyment since i guess around christmas  
uh i received uh uh several books for christmas  
and at christmas break i read uh [sarum] by uh uh a fellow named rutherford  
uh it's the history of uh  
well it's sort of the the historical fiction about uh the salisbury area in in england  
and so i i really enjoyed that book a lot  
uh he's not quite as good as you know michener or some of uh some of the other historical writers  
but he he did this job well  
so  
yeah  
uh do you find do you find you have much chance to read for for just pleasure or mostly for business  
uh_huh  
i don't think i have seen it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
okay  
i think i have heard about that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds great  
did did it have something to mention about uh sort of uh cultural [rituals] of of manhood  
okay  
yeah  
i have heard of that  
i have uh someone suggested that i read it  
is it iron john  
okay  
good  
b l y  
okay  
great  
uh_huh  
uh what are your favorite uh  
do you have a favorite subject to read whether it be science fiction or or history  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
that   sounds great  
uh who is your whose your favorite religious author  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
max [lucado]  
yeah  
yeah  
uh he's a great man  
i've met him several times uh  
huh  
uh   uh_huh  
uh yes  
i i've read uh several good books lately  
uh lot of them related to uh business and financial matters since that's what i do for a living  
how about yourself  
yes  
uh_huh  
well that sounds good  
no  
i read for pleasure some also  
i read a book recently called iron john  
have you seen that by [bly]  
okay  
well it's a book about   uh uh greek gods and and greek uh mythology   as well as uh man and [interacting] with other men and a book about uh men and how they mature through life  
and how they deal with life itself  
but it's uh it's all revolved around uh mythology   uh as far as uh traditions from uh other cultures and our culture   and how we uh interact with one another  
yes  
yes  
by [bly]  
b l y i believe it is  
uh_huh  
and uh it's a very interesting book  
well it depends again if we're talking about uh  
i read a lot of religious books   uh just because i have an interest in that area  
and i read a lot of books in the area of uh uh psychology and self help type uh materials  
uh always trying to understand people   better and understand myself in relation to other people and try to understand where the people are coming from because i'm in a people business  
and uh so that that's  
my work is my hobby  
so i i enjoy it  
well i don't know if i have a favorite   uh religious author  
i would have to say that uh some of the ones that consistently put out good materials   uh you know  
that that's difficult because one person might write one book extremely well and some other ones might not write as well  
uh i had to stop here and think a second  
one of the ones that i've read recently that i've read several of his books  
and i thought that each one of his books were good  
he's the man out of san antonio  
and uh  
max [lucado]  
max consistently writes good books  
yes  
i know him  
yeah  
but   uh there's other authors also that have uh uh that write good books from time to time but not consistently put out the materials all the time  
uh i'd say another which is a local writer here in plano uh is uh  
i'm trying to think of his name  
he's with the bible church  
and that is uh  
i see his name  
but i can't  
i mean i see him  
but i can't see his name  
but he uh he talks about uh he talks about a lot of different topics  
and  
did i interrupt your reading schedule
oh oh well what have you read good lately
well not even lately
tell me
who's it by
do you remember
yeah
my husband is a big science fiction uh reader but i don't uh care for it as much
i don't have uh he's a computer man too
i think that sometimes goes hand in hand
well uh i'm at a stand still right now
but we haven't lived in charlotte very long
and so uh
and our furniture is stored somewhere else
so i've had a lot of time i've read a lot of books
but
and this is one group of books if you've read that i i guess i started reading them two or three or ago
by jean [auel] the first one was clan of the cave bear
oh gosh
that is wonderful
and then the second book of hers was valley of the horses and the third one was the [mammoth] hunters
are they sounding familiar
and her last one
which which i think everybody waited about a year or two for to come out
uh plains of passage
but uh i think clan and you have to read them in order you have to read the clan first
but that has that is the most different book that i've read in many many years probably since brave new world made such an impact
on me many years ago
and my husband says so too
the clan so it's if you can pick those up
uh and sometimes they're packaged together those first three in paper back
yes
i have
yes
good
but how uh do you read more realistic books perhaps self improvement
or
how to books
yeah
yeah
um i'm i'm sorry
huh_uh
huh_uh
are you working or are you a student
are you
well my husband is working uh temporary
well under contract
we had moved here after twenty years in oklahoma and in fact he started with
i guess um first generation computers
is that called mainframe and um he's under contract with uh an insurance company that has bought many agencies so uh
and they really needed he's an accountant also
and so they need someone to uh get things under control
so he's been reading a lot about different kinds
you know several agencies are on um uh one system
uh some other on some other systems right now what not red house
what's what's that
oh i can't not red house the system
i guess is what i'm trying to talk
he's converting to it
and then they will convert from it to another one
later on
but he's he's you know he he's good at
and he's probably uh as good at [troubleshooting] as anybody
that you can find but anyway let me
are you married
do you have a girlfriend yeah
well there is a book that i want you to recommend to her
okay
and it's called
and i can't tell you
exactly
the author i get a lot of authors if i remember the title remember the title i sometimes forget the author
and it's called women of substance
and i believe one also one of the best books that i've ever read
and there is a series of them
uh and it's either by [belva] plain i think it was probably by [belva] plain
but if you can just tell her to get that from the library
it's excellent
have you read silence of the lambs yet
did you
yeah
i had that's not my type of book
so
but it is
my husband's yeah
yeah
but uh one other thing i wanted to mention too someone a few years ago a dentist
and his wife were getting rid of all their paper backs that they had read within the last few years
and they were going to take them down to the y or somewhere like that
and and i said well let me have them first
and go through them and see which ones i want to read
and they said well sure take them
uh just take them to the y when your finished
and as i divided them into the books that i i would like
and my husband
picked out the ones that he would like
those that he liked all had similar covers the ones i liked had similar covers and and what's what's the more uh those that he liked better were black and silver and gold and red
and i'm talking about paper backs you know
and i thought that was really you know we had two huge piles and all his were shiny like christmas lights
and mine were just blue and and all that
well it's been nice talking to you
and if i if i didn't do anything else
i recommended a good book to another woman
okay
uh uh do you have any uh particular books that you've read lately that are are good books that you've enjoyed
not real lately when they came up with this topic i thought gee i read a lot of books
and now i thought what have i read lately
oh isn't that funny
i will have to say
oh well it seems like i have read a lot of children's books lately
to my my kids and things like that
but oh
oh
huh
oh
is it by the same author
oh
uh_huh
well that may that may be the reason you can't get into it as as much
oh
oh
uh_huh
yeah
i you know if i get reading a book i like to just close the door and just read you know
and even stay up really late at night and and just stay into it until i finish uh
yeah
sometimes it is hard to do that with our lives
oh
uh_huh
oh
oh i see
well some of the books that i have read uh that i really enjoyed getting into was uh the one ellen [drurey] books you know advise and [consent] and have you ever read any of those
yeah
it really is um
it's been around awhile
but it's not you know it's not from the eighteen hundreds or anything
this is it's a book um it's written in the nineteen hundreds
and it's written uh about what goes on in washington you know with the senate and the house and the president and everything
and uh it really gets into kind of the wheeling and dealing type thing
and it's just it gets really fascinating
i didn't think something like that would catch
my interest
but uh the way it's written and everything
it is excellent
it just really uh it is
well worth reading
oh
there's another book out that is called all i ever uh needed to know i learned in kindergarten
have you ever heard of
that is just real cute it's uh it's just got a lot of ideas in it about basic things you know that we do
and uh you know things that you learn in kindergarten that that really apply to your life um
there is one little section in there that that talks about um uh holding hands and sticking together and uh you know having cookies and milk and wouldn't it be nice if we could all still take a nap
okay
yeah
well i picked almost every category
they said you said pick fifteen categories and there wasn't really all that much
i was into i mean i'm interest of course i do read a lot
but that's uh
but i also picked gardening
and i tried to talk about that for five minutes
i don't really garden very much
but books i could talk about you know forever
i
well mostly fiction
and um the nonfiction i like are are the usually the crime stories
see and um
oh you too
oh see now i don't like
i don't like those types i i can't relate to stuff like that it's so weird you know
yeah
well i like i i like a book i can in some way relate to
and and that's
i don't know
it's so off the wall
most of that stuff you know you i
you can't really believe it
i mean you it's hard to to to read it
and and really think that this could really happen
it's just i don't know it's not believable
to me at all
well well that's true
you don't have to read a book and believe it you know stuff can happen
but i don't know
i guess i just go more for realism oh yeah
it's very good
yeah
yeah
that was good
i read that
oh quite a while ago
oh by um oh
[cryton] right [cryton] no
now what is that about is that uh an [espionage] thing
oh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yes
i have
but i terminal man was it was that one of his
he he writes stuff his his books are similar to robin [cook's] have you read any of robin [cook's] yeah
and they're sort of similar you know in the you know he deals a lot in you know scientific stuff
or you know stuff that um i
you don't know if it could
it could happen or not you know it's just um you know
but i mean most of it is good
i yeah i haven't uh i haven't read anything by him in a long time
fear is that what you said fear
oh no
i don't
no
i'm not familiar with that
oh yes
uh did you read his other one the red dragon
yes
now uh both of them were terrific
well see now i couldn't either
now i uh a friend of mine started to read it because you know i told her it was terrific
and everybody she'd spoke to said it was terrific she couldn't get into it
oh
she's sort of a [lightweight] you know her her uh her reading consists of have you ever heard of v c andrews
you know stuff like that you know danielle steele you know
you know stuff like that
so she really
she couldn't get into this
but she
i think she said she saw the movie she liked the movie
i don't you know
yeah
the movie was good
but i well you know compared to the book
right
no
well they did
but um i don't think it was as scary as i expected it to be
i i really you know i i don't know
i just didn't think it was as suspenseful as as i expected it to be
i don't know
but it was a good it was a good movie
yeah
well that's true
and i'm waiting his new one comes out sometime in the spring
i think
yes
probably another murder thing you know that's usually what he you know well this [this'll] be i think his fourth or fifth book and the other the previous ones were murder um the he wrote also black sunday which was a about the uh bombing in the in the [superdome] oh it was a
and they made a movie out of that
um gee i don't know
i think it was called black sunday
it was about well no
about ten years ago i guess it uh you know
but uh
that's all
he's written
yeah
yeah
that's about all i get a chance for between that and and um uh bible study as often as i can
that's about the bulk of it
not a lot of chances
otherwise
okay
um officially a junior right now um
well right now i'm taking a a uh my fourth semester of of electronics dealing mostly with uh uh
and [transistors] and
well okay
they they're uh no computer engineering
okay
i'm getting some programming
right now i'm taking my first semester in
uh yeah
yeah
well with it
well they classify it as computer engineering technology
so i'm getting a fair amount of programming as well as electronics
uh it depends on which language they're working with um
right now i'm taking c i've got three semesters in [pascal] behind me
uh that we're working with what what they call standard uh [ansi] c
um i'm not real sure what the difference is going to be between c
and
yeah
uh_huh
okay
what we're working with
uh i don't remember the [author's] name
used to be
i read a good deal of uh science fiction um
asimov um clark uh there's uh the big one was asimov his he his stuff is easiest to find
what got me started in the first place was uh my brother in law gave me a set the uh um foundation trilogy back
ten year a year
one of the in junior high school he gave it to me
oh yeah
and he's come up with uh three more books
uh parts of it
i got three parts of it
yeah
yeah
wait a minute matter of fact i did read i i robot i robot yeah
that's pretty light reading for science fiction those kind of things
yes
he does
well the uh foundation trilogy is directly connected to i robot as a matter of fact his last book foundation and earth
they made the finally made the connection that uh um leader robot whatever his i don't remember his name now
anyway he's still going
in uh uh uh in foundation and earth
they meet up with him
he's on a base on the moon and somehow or another earth has been so utterly polluted with uh uh radioactive [fallout] that it's utterly [uninhabitable] even though it's been several million years
several hundred thousand years anyway
but it's utterly [uninhabitable] oh yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i i got started on student a little late
i was thirty three when i started to college
for the first time
oh yeah
yeah
i
i'd been an auto mechanic for twenty years
started about twelve years old for my father but i decided you know i i had a pretty good idea that wasn't what i wanted to do any more
no
didn't go through military
so i'm
okay
so what kind of books do you like to read
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um i prefer my favorite types of books are uh human interest type books biographies um it can be fiction about people i like books that are about people that have historical you know that tell you something about the history at the same time you know in a certain area
so
um
both
either one
yeah
um i've read lots of books
i really like let me think um have you ever heard of a book called the hiding place
by [corrie] ten boom
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i like um i guess my preference is for christian biographies
but um i'm interested in both you know because i you learn a lot from reading about people's lives
and um so yeah
that's probably one of my all time favorites
what what would you say is your favorite book that you've ever read
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i
uh_huh
uh_huh
i remember a long time ago i read some books by glen [bristol] you ever read any of
yeah
those um i don't know why gone with the wind made me think of that
but those are books that are um like they some of them took place in
well there's one that took place in georgia
and another
yeah
they're historically based fiction
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
i don't think i am
i don't think i am
but go ahead
oh yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
that's right
i do sometimes
but um they have to have illustrations or else i i get bored with them for for the most part
i mean illustrations real examples you know
instead of just giving me a [sermon] or giving me a you know how to type idea
yeah
yeah
see they have to have it for real
yeah
some real examples from their own life to prove that they know what they're talking about
i just read one called uh the language of love
by gary [smalley] and someone else
and that was really good
yeah
it was full of personal illustrations and illustrations of people they'd work with they're um psychologists so what about you
what do you like to read for self improvement uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i guess i agree there
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh dear
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
with humor in them
yeah
yeah
those are good
yeah
i think it probably does
yeah
i have too
good bye
have a good evening
well what books do you like
uh_huh
great
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
those are great
uh i've been a [sherlock] [holmes] fan for years
and i think
i've read most of his stuff multiple numbers of times
i just find it very relaxing and very enjoyable
and i always hope for my memory to to fail me
so after a couple of years i can pick up a story and read it again
that's great
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i started reading them years and years ago i it's
and i i'm not really much of a mystery reader although i've always liked [sherlock] [holmes] and then somebody turned me on to a guy named dick frances um
and he's uh a former [jockey] and he writes mystery stories
and they always involve horse racing in one form or another he's very very good if uh you've never read him that would be a great opportunity
his name is dick frances and any book store owner will know who dick frances is
and you can pick up any of his stuff
and you can just sort of try it
and if you like his style
well he's written i'd say twenty or twenty five
novels you know he's he's quite quite clever the adventure stuff
yeah
huh yeah you know i always suspected uh uh uh michener of doing that you know i read some of his early stuff
and then it seemed like his later stuff they would be these long long long [passages] that were just of inferior quality
yeah
i mean i just got the feeling that he sort of has a of of students and he says okay go write three chapters on this
and he
and he kind of
he might write some stuff i don't think he writes all his stuff every word
i may be wrong
yeah
i've read a couple of his things i i just wasn't that crazy about him
which really puts me in the
i know in the vast minority
yeah
huh
yeah
huh
yeah
yeah
i read dune years ago
uh i just did not care for dune
i read through it all it was [laborious] i i felt i had to get through it and when i put it down
i never wanted to read another thing by that guy again
yeah
yeah
yeah
but again i realize
i mean i
all my friends were saying how great dune was
and i just could not could not get into it
i read the whole thing
but i didn't didn't enjoy it that much
i really read a lot of science fiction and asimov is one of my favorite authors i think his stuff is is great
just going back to his very early works and almost anything
he writes i try to read
yeah
interesting
and i was just crazy about [tolkien] i read his stuff
and i [reread] it
and i read the whole twelve hundred pages [aloud] to my son when he was uh a young boy when he was about eight or nine we would just read ten pages every night
and i just did that you know for a half a year until i'd read the whole thing out loud
and uh
yeah
yeah
well uh uh being a college professor
there's just a certain amount of academic reading
i do as a matter of course
well yeah
forced is probably not too strong a word but to keep up in your field you usually have to do some uh some technical reading
but uh i actually like um for technical reading
i like to read what i call uh soft core science like uh discovery magazine which i like very much
and they get some of the best [scholars] and scientists in the country to write articles that can be understood they're not highly technical but they're not
probably not as simplified as in discovery but they're very good except i couldn't
i just got on their list
somehow because at one time i did some research for them
and i'm not really sure how one would go about getting this
but it's it's excellent uh for finding out what's going on in fields other than your own
i don't believe so source book oh no
no
oh that would be fascinating
i don't know what what about them
uh_huh
i see
okay
that would be a very interesting thing
right
uh_huh
yeah
do you have any interest in stonehenge
or did you ever have any
okay
so what books do you like to read
like what what authors uh_huh
no
i'm not
okay
yeah
i heard of that
oh that's interesting
no
i i have never really never never read science fiction much
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
that's older stuff
yeah
yeah
i had a professor at school whose sister wrote a star trek wrote one of those novels
that yeah as under this fake name
she wrote it in since she's a professor at another university
and it was kind of a hush
hush thing that she'd written this book
so we all had to read it for a sociology class
so um no
i don't
the author was like [madge] [larson] or something like that
it was a kind of [feminist] star trek people on a it's the woman had been a p o w in vietnam
who wrote it
and so she she's one of the first female p o w
and so she had um kind of [paralleled] that with kind of a space version of it
and it was kind of
it was interesting
i don't know if it was interesting
just because i knew the person who had written it or if it was actually a good book
but i've never really read a lot of science fiction
it's
right
right
oh
but you've got them so that halfway there
that's good
uh_huh
yeah
i've i've read a lot of medieval lit this year in school
a lot of like took a class in [chaucer] so we were reading in the middle english and all that
and that was a lot of fun
kind of weird
but um well i'm uh i like a lot of contemporary short stories
um authors like [bobbi] ann mason she's from kentucky and writes a lot of just kind of contemporary realism sort of stuff
um john [barthelme] who wrote he just died a few years ago
and he wrote kind of weird [avant] [garde] short fiction
and then like in the sixties through the late eighties
and he was kind of responsible for turning around the short story movement so that was kind of neat
um if i'm reading kind of trashy stuff
i like um i guess kind of mystery books and then stuff that's funny
i like pretty much any humor book and gosh
oh that's fun
uh_huh
right
no
i i i have one of them sitting on my [bookshelf] and i just never picked it up
yeah
yeah
i i like him
uh_huh
yeah
i used to
oh
what have you read by him
uh_huh
oh i've never read anything i got a book of his out of the library just the other day
to try it out
i'd been to england and thought you know he's like the british stephen king
so
oh
really
i'll have to
oh well he's next on my list to read
i'm reading a little private eye book now
yeah
oh those are
the ones my dad keeps trying to get me to read
but i
uh_huh
well that's good
right
well that's interesting
i read i like moby dick that's a
that's my big book that i like
that's one i just my very very favorite book
so
if i had to go read something again i'd probably read moby dick or [scarlet] letter
i always like
no
i actually have never seen any of the star trek movies
was that
oh well that's interesting
i had a roommate in school who did a
did you ever see the movie [heathers] oh it's it's kind of this sort of black comedy movie about this these kids in high school who are not real popular
and they kill all the popular kids
in the class
it's it's kind of [bleak] but it's sort of fun
and they do a lot of moby dick i had a roommate who wrote a whole paper on moby dick and [heathers] and i i thought it was a little much
but it was kind of fun
i like john irving
that's
he hasn't written much in a while
but when he does
i'm pretty happy with it
yeah
i'm trying to think what else i've read that i've really just loved i don't know how i it's hard to read when you're in school
it's like you just read those textbooks and that's it
but i guess maybe in the real world too
you just don't have time to read
but
uh_huh
and then you fall asleep and have to [reread] it
the next night because you forgot what you've read
yeah
i i do that too
oh i like larry mcmurtry he's good
and like [lonesome] [dove] was it was a long book
but it was really good
really
uh_huh
oh
i liked jaws
and the deep and the island
those were pretty good
so i would read that
all right um  
i think the topic was crime in the city  
i do not live in a city  
i live in a real small little place  
uh it's about thirty miles from sherman  
it's north of sherman  
not too far  
huh_uh  
uh i've been through there  
okay  
oh yeah  
i had been through saint joe  
but um just as far as watching the news and reading the papers and all that it sounds like the crimes in the cities are really getting bad  
huh_uh  
oh yeah  
sure  
huh_uh  
oh i know  
i know  
i know  
um i think nowadays people just really just murder is nothing to them you know  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
because uh most likely that will happen won't it that you know  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
no  
yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
um  
huh_uh  
um so you're you're kind of thinking  
in other words if you get if you do something the first time that's not real bad you know  
yeah  
to go ahead and let them go  
but if they do it again and they really need to face the consequences then uh  
oh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
no  
apparently not  
because look how many years they've been doing that  
and look  
i mean yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
three or four times  
yeah  
that is true  
i know  
yeah  
oh i'm i agree very much so on that  
i  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
comes  
yeah  
huh_uh  
sure  
they just think that's the normal thing to do don't they  
yeah  
huh_uh  
in the first grade  
oh know  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh i know  
i know um  
i work in school you know  
that's something i do  
and i it really is  
i'm like you  
[astonishing] what the younger ages know  
and they react to what they see at home you know  
if they see violence at home that's what you're going to get from the kids at school  
you know it really is  
and that's kind of sad  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
teen  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
right  
where is that  
north south east or west  
well you live almost in oklahoma  
yeah  
that's kind of ironic because i don't live too far from oklahoma either  
you know where saint joe is  
i'm about eight miles south of it  
well you know i've i've seen those statistics and everything  
and you know what frightens me is that you put a half a million people out in the middle of the desert   with high tech weaponry you know  
i mean the iraqis didn't have a lot of high tech weaponry  
but they had [mortars] and machine guns   tanks and all that  
and they didn't kill as many people in in forty five days  
and they were intending to kill people  
i mean that was their job as they killed in washington d c  
well i [formulated] a pretty radical theory over the last ten years i guess  
and i've come to the conclusion and this is a pretty scary thought to me even that if a guy is convicted or a gal is convicted of a crime rather than put them in prison because [prison's] proven not to work just let them go  
say okay you're convicted  
and just let them go  
and if they get convicted again well just kill them  
well i think that the best hope to eliminate crime as we know it today   is to eliminate the criminals from society  
if someone is known to have been in prison they can't get a job  
you know  
they can't be accepted into society  
you know if they're not going to be accepted into society then everybody's going to become [sociopathic]  
and you know who's to put the limit on it  
i mean i was watching a thing last night up in washington state  
if you get convicted of uh sexual offenses on a regular basis  
you know i mean some of these guys are forty years old and got ten convictions  
and they're still let out on the street after one or two years  
well in washington state if you're a habitual sexual offender they just don't let you out  
so you serve your prison term  
and then you go into the mental hospital  
and if you're pronounced cured they'll let you go  
well they may find a cure for it  
but there is no known cure now  
hey people make mistakes  
well yeah  
use that  
or you know there's other consequences rather than killing them you know  
you could   always make them the slave of the people they committed the crime against  
you know  
at least they might get some benefit in that  
and if the people they committed a crime against feel at some later date that these people have learned their lesson are are okay you know well they can free them  
but uh you know with the technology we have today you can put a collar on a guys leg that will knock him down if they leave the property  
i mean it will just in [incapacitate] them  
and you can put a collar around a guys leg that will prohibit them from committing any kind of prohibitive act  
but you know putting them in prison my god that doesn't work  
well you look at places like turkey  
turkey has the death penalty   for just about everything  
i mean if you get convicted of uh you know drug trafficking they just kill you  
you get convicted of uh you know heinous crimes they just kill you  
i mean there's no two ways about it  
and uh you look at their society  
and the repeat offenders are very few  
you know and you look at our society almost everyone out on the street that has been in prison has been in prison three or four times  
i mean   you know the way to stop that kind of behavior is is two fold  
one you need to make it illegal for both parents to work while the kids are under seven  
i i think that's very important  
and then if a parent has proved to be [unfit] for any reason   take the kids away from the parents  
because you know we are what we teach  
because that's what our society becomes  
we have   we have just a bunch of people  
and i've and i've i've lived in that that environment for quite a few years when i was doing construction work  
you know and these guys they come to work every morning  
and they're stoned to the bone  
i mean their so high they could fly up to the top of that building  
and they work all day  
and they go home  
and they smoke their dope and drink their booze and shoot their drugs  
and when they run out of money they go down to the corner store and pop the guy on the head and take his money  
and then they go back to work on monday  
and the kids of these people  
they're [sociopathic]  
and i worked in a first grade classroom for one full semester  
and these kids were more [foulmouthed] than i've ever been  
i had one kid threaten my life   threaten my life  
told me that daddy's going to [whoop] me to death  
you know and they flipping me the finger and all that  
and i just said to this kid  
i said you got two choices kid  
you can step into mainstream society  
or you can die  
because you will eventually be killed  
and i just i'm just totally aghast at a what's going on  
huh_uh  
exactly  
well you can see it in the work place you know  
used to be when you had a personality conflict you just you worked with it  
and you got through it  
now you know people get fired  
or what's even worse is they promote them into a position that they can't handle and let them get fired  
or one thing or the other  
you look at another kind of society like the japanese  
you put that many people on that small of a space they've learned to live together  
okay  
it's in their culture  
and one of the things that's in their culture that i really think the major corporations should pay attention to is the fact that while japan was becoming a great power financially the people that worked for those companies worked for the same company they worked for at sixty five as they did when they were eighteen  
and the company took it upon itself to find a position for these people  
if they weren't fit for the job they were hired for they didn't just can them  
they made a position for them some where  
you look at frito lay  
my wife used to work for frito lay as a typist  
you know [transcribing] stuff into the computer  
well she could type about one hundred and five words per minute  
but she don't like it  
she just doesn't like to do that  
i mean she will  
but you know her preference is to be in an office situation where her job is  
hello  
did i reach the dallas area  
did i reach the dallas area  
dayton ohio  
i'm from north carolina  
in raleigh  
yeah  
so   my name is fernando  
so um do you well  
how'd you find out about this  
oh okay  
he works for t i  
oh okay  
because i'm down at n c state  
and so i took a class  
and he said sign up and get some money   and just talk for five minutes  
so are you ready  
okay  
let's get started  
okay  
so uh what do you think that uh  
what do what do what do you think we can do to solve the crime in america  
yeah  
but what what what are the steps  
well see the problem is is that um what happens is as that you're uh you know as you go from the country to a city crime always increases right  
because in the country people still respect uh the property of other people  
and so as as  
and the people in the country don't want as much as the people in the city  
now what happens is all those that don't have any money in the country move to the cities  
and they rush to get the same thing  
they say why can't we have the same things that these other people have  
and the thing that we can do is we need money for drugs  
and what we have to do is we have to go uh get some stuff steal it and then you know just resell it  
which one  
yeah  
that's uh that's uh the main reason i think uh everywhere  
because uh you have deaths  
i mean i mean you have murders  
and you have you know people stealing other people's stuff  
and that's  
a lot of it has to do with drugs  
it doesn't have to do  
i mean the thing is is that you know it's like you might be standing somewhere right  
and like let's say you you're you're you know you're driving out  
and you're driving back home  
and it's late at night  
and you stop by one of these you know twenty four hour you know gas stations joints  
and uh somebody walks in there with a gun  
i mean they're going to want the money  
and you can tell by the people who are always caught that these people are there to get money for drugs  
i mean they don't want the money so uh so they can do something else with it  
right  
right  
and so  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
there's a there's a uh a song that i know which says you know  
it's like in uh nineteen eighty eight nineteen eighty nine the local state and federal governments spent the least amount of money on crime in america  
and uh their figures i think are too so  
i mean it's like compared to you know compared to weapons or stuff like that i mean you're spending nothing on on crime in the country itself  
what you're doing is you you know  
it's like you have other things you know  
you have the aids  
we're going to solve try to solve   the aids problem while while you know some people are getting killed here and there  
and then  
uh_huh  
but those people never get caught  
the people that   that that i  
see their theory is that if i'm surrounded and i'm going to be caught i'm going to try to find my way through  
and they're not going to take me alive  
but i have such a big army outside of my place that nobody can touch me  
you know it's like  
of course i mean i might be you know the the leading drug dealer here  
but you won't find me dealing in drugs  
i mean there's no connection   between me and the people that were caught you know  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i was i was at a at a party on saturday  
and this guy comes over  
he goes hey how you doing  
he started talking to me  
and this guy was from jamaica right  
and he's got his little brother selling drugs  
you know and he goes yeah i just came up here to work  
and i go oh you did you make very good money up here  
he goes yeah i make a lot a lot of money  
he goes you know  
and uh in the movie good fellows  
did you see it  
okay  
in one part the guy goes out of jail  
and within uh two months he has all his house payments gone   everything paid you know  
and he had enough money to you know  
it's like those guys at one point you know they had so much money that they didn't know what to do with it  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that that was also in the movie  
yeah  
so hello mary  
we've been talking for five minutes  
all right okay  
same here  
bye bye  
hello there  
i beg your pardon  
no  
you've reached dayton ohio  
oh you're from north carolina  
where in north carolina  
raleigh  
great  
well my name's mary  
fernando glad to know you  
uh i was visiting my son down in dallas  
and  
no  
no  
but his wife has a contract with t i  
and that's how we learned about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
i'm ready  
all right  
okay  
oh if i knew that i'd be a very wealthy person  
well you have to see  
i the way i look at it you have to think first of all why  
or has crime increased  
and if so why has crime increased  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
it's easy  
you said the magic word there  
drugs  
and that certainly is one reason why crime here has increased  
oh yes  
yeah  
no  
they don't want the money for food  
that's for sure  
well but you know the the strange thing uh perhaps not strange but something that many people don't realize is that you can go back as far as nineteen fifty one and fifty two and find that there were drug dealers at that time trying to influence the high school kids  
because uh i'm a retired [educator]  
and in fifty one and fifty two the police came to the high school where i was and were telling us how to recognize when kids were on drugs how to recognize the pushers   outside the one [entrance] that they were giving their drugs away in order to get the kids started and so on and so on  
so it's a problem that's been around for over forty years  
and we're just really uh uh now trying to uh figure out how to cope with the problem because it has grown so huge  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and another one of the problems is that the people who are the dealers the big dealers in drugs   may be may be part of the power structure that's keeping us from spending the money in that direction  
that's right  
they'll never get caught  
uh_huh  
that's right  
but they'll  
that's right  
that's right  
and they  
one person doesn't know the other person down the line  
but the guy at the very top the one who's who's really making the millions and the millions is the one who also many times is part of the power structure uh the uh and had the political   uh pull to keep things from uh keep the interest or the emphasis in some other direction other than on the drug dealing  
because it sure is monstrous in this country  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
might  
nope  
i only heard about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really you know  
even in our prison systems they're finding that they're they're having drugs [smuggled] into them  
right  
been nice talking with you  
i beg your  
we've been talking for a little bit  
i appreciate the call  
i enjoyed talking with you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
well like i was saying [burlington's] crime it doesn't involve children  
and what you see on the t v from you know in washington and new york  
so what i believe the people want  
the subject is is big city crime which is something that i don't have any first hand experiences about  
but i have you know concerns  
and   i have a few ideas of um how to combat it  
i mean i don't i don't think ideally you know you need money to do everything  
so   that's one thing  
that that's that's crime that you can't fight it if you need that money  
so  
oh  
does it spread out of the neighborhoods into the more the uh retired people's community  
or does it stay in the bad neighborhoods  
so that's a big concern if you live there   is to really lock your car up  
oh my it sounds like um san juan puerto rico  
we were there just well for a lay over  
and um well it wasn't a lay over  
we were we had we were staying at the other end of the island  
and we drove into san juan to catch our plane  
it was at night  
and this boy really wanted to go on the beach  
and they look at you crazy  
you don't go on the beach  
well it's a big tourist town you know  
don't they don't people go for a walk on the beach at night  
and they said no  
it's very safe in the daytime  
but at night they even have the policemen come around at dusk and sound their sirens pretty much telling people be wary you know and get off the beach  
well what they what they say they try to do is to get the kids um early and young  
and what we have here in burlington which it doesn't cost a lot of money but they have a kids council   that they have all these after school activities for kids  
they set up kids with elderly people in the winter time they [shovel] their snow  
they have a big brother big sister program  
they have bottle drives  
they have [cleanup] outings  
and they have also organized fun activities like gyms going to the beach and playing volleyball at the beach in the summer  
and they have gyms open  
and it seems that the younger you can get them and get them involved with programs   after school you might keep them  
but you again you need that one on one like a big brother trying to keep the younger kid you know tell him hey stay in school  
it'll get better you know  
so that your mom doesn't have a job  
and she doesn't work  
you don't know  
you can be better than that  
you don't have to live on the you know for a street life  
but  
yeah  
but it's so cheap they don't have a problem here  
i mean um they can deal with that   scale  
they might have five hundred troubled [youths]  
when you have five thousand troubled [youths] plus when you're getting into well the kids now it's twelve years old  
and they're selling drugs  
and they've got a fifteen year old that's their boss   that is carrying a gun  
it's just it's the morals of the people which i mean i guess we everybody's responsible for the society  
but if i had a child that that did things so bad  
it's not they don't care about anybody  
these people they're stealing from they're just the big bad rich guy  
and we don't have it  
so we deserve it  
and we should take it  
yes  
well i think a lot of it is the parents are totally irresponsible too  
we're talking   these kids are fourteen years old  
the parents might be thirty years old  
and i'm thirty years old  
and i'm kind of irresponsible  
but i have the morals that keep me from you know  
if i was going to go out and drink or do something i wouldn't do it in front of my child  
these people you know they bring their their johns home  
and they bring their drugs home  
and the kids are just sitting there in the same room  
it's just that they have absolutely no no morals  
and it's really sad  
but i like your idea of education  
i mean if the parents aren't supplying it they've got to get it   from someone else   from the schools  
yeah  
it's really sad  
like if they did have a big brother big sister program  
those those people trying to help the kids  
the parents might have hostilities towards them you know   like you're judging us  
and i'm not good enough to raise my child which basically is true  
it's it's it's  
i'm glad i don't live in a big city   just because i mean not just because i wouldn't feel safe  
it's just because that i would be reminded every day   of something that i don't see  
and i might see it on a you know a sixty minutes special  
i know it  
but san antonio is considered a nice clean city believe it or not  
i mean they have all kinds of nice write ups about it  
but any big city has a bad section  
yes  
they're very bold it seems  
really  
even uh even in the worst crime areas in burlington  
i i can walk the streets  
i wouldn't  
i if i did it every night   i think there would be trouble in our house  
so you wouldn't get confronted or anything  
but i don't think you would uh  
someone might grab you mess around with you  
but they're not going to grab you steal your money and [slit] your throat   which in a lot of big cities  
i mean that's what you your going to have to expect that to happen  
people are just totally [unfeeling]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
well when uh we lived in san antonio  
i grew up around san antonio  
and it's always been a very large uh city and increasingly growing  
it's has kind of the split population  
um there's a lot of retired military uh individuals that live there  
and then there's a very large hispanic population there  
and the one thing that we noticed that over the years has gotten worse and worse is hispanic uh gang crime in the city  
and that has uh been the worse thing that we've seen happening  
um the majority of the actual gang crimes like the the drive by shootings and stuff stays in the neighborhoods  
but the crime spreads out into the more affluent divisions through robberies rape and uh car crime  
there's a very large uh or very high percentage of car theft  
and san san [antonio's] not far from the border to mexico  
so a lot of the uh cars go to uh you know shops  
and they take them apart  
and a lot of them go over the border especially like mercedes  
a lot of those those in the the z uh the z cars the datsun cars end up over the border  
and uh  
very much so  
very much so  
in fact for a while there they had downtown if you were to come to a stop light they had a [rash] of where people were when people were stopped at stop signs that people would get in their car and hold a knife and hold them up  
so now ever since then when you drive into the city most people keep their doors locked while they're in the car until they get down there  
and once you've reached the the river walk area which is the tourist area it's usually pretty safe during the day if you're just kind of cautious and don't go down the back streets or alleys and um you know or alone  
if you stay with the groups and along the area where they have the river patrol cops it's very nice  
but at at evening um again you they have the high tourist area the river walk area which is nice  
but you don't want to get off the beaten track  
um there's a lot of parking garages there because parking is very tight  
and so you don't want to get caught in the parking garage uh alone  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's just so sad you know  
it is just really so sad you know  
it is just really so sad because you can't enjoy anything any more  
um in san antonio i don't know what the answer is  
education i think is a lot of it  
um so many of the kids are drop outs  
um uh there's a lot of drugs that go on and that they just have hopeless lives  
they they lead themselves down hopeless tunnels  
i think education helps a little bit there  
um then again i don't know really what steps there are that they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's good that sounds like they've got a lot going on there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know how you combat that  
i i don't know where you start or with a lot of these kids  
um so many of them all they see is just the gangs  
and unless you can take them out of the environment enough to where they don't have the peer pressure from the gangs as soon as they come home from school  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i don't know how you combat that  
i  
i don't know what the answer is to that problem you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and what do those kids do  
they get it at school and come home  
what do they do then  
i i feel i feel for them  
i don't know how to make it better for them  
or you know because it they can't remove themselves  
they can't just leave and say okay well it's not acceptable  
i'm leaving the big city mom  
and i'm i'm going off you know  
when they're ten they have to live in it  
and   uh_huh  
right  
i think so  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
in san antonio it was like every day  
it was just a matter of who was shot that night  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
but   but there's a lot of them  
it's very prevalent  
a lot of the crime is very prevalent  
uh_huh  
very much  
when we moved here to monterrey it was a big change because it's such a small community  
we're just above carmel  
and um there's hardly  
most everybody seems pretty well employed around here  
and um those that aren't  
there's [celinas] which is about a fifteen minute drive which is mostly migrant workers  
and there's a lot of crime there um migrant hispanic farm workers people that are down and out  
and uh they all seem to [congregate] in [celinas] not so much here in monterrey  
so it's it's pretty quiet you know  
we walk the streets at night  
and uh people run in the park  
and you know you're just  
have your normal smarts about you then you really don't have to worry  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh uh  
i didn't know that about burlington  
i'll have to keep that in mind  
okay  
i can go ahead and start  
uh in dallas there's definitely a crime problem  
i know it's you know worse in the larger cities  
um it's kind of a concern for me  
in fact at the moment i'm thinking of possibly moving to a new apartment  
and uh it's  
i am single and female  
you definitely are going to worry about the location and uh you know [accessibility] of people to be able to break in  
i live on a third floor now  
but i you know i'm real concerned that i i don't want to be on a first floor where you can have problems with things like that  
and the um  
some buildings do  
it depends on the location  
the area i live in right now is is real good as far as crime rate is concerned  
and we don't have anything at all no burglar alarms no guards  
some some places do have guard gates that you have to get through or electronic access gates and things like that   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
there's a lot of that going on in dallas too  
yeah  
it's really sad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i agree  
i think that people are getting off too easy  
they're getting they're getting paroled too easily  
they're just getting uh put on probation or something because the prisons don't have enough room  
so they get they get lighter sentences  
and some of those people they don't deserve to be let loose  
oh yeah  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
uh that's terrible  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
it's a little more understandable under the circumstances i guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
we have enough enough problems with overcrowding in the jails as it is  
so let let their country take care of it  
we don't have i guess too much trouble in dallas with  
well i guess i guess we do have a lot of people come in from mexico that cause problems  
but uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it was amazing  
i went to the far east uh back in october to do some training for t i  
and i  
uh some of those countries were so safe it was unreal  
singapore is very supposed to be very safe  
and in fact tokyo  
and i thought tokyo would be dangerous being such a huge large city with so many people  
but they  
at at the t i there i said is there any area i should avoid  
and the guy said let me ask another girl here  
and he turned and asked this girl and said can you think of any place where dana shouldn't go by herself or anything  
and she she thought for a few minutes  
and she said no  
and he said is there any place you wouldn't go by yourself  
she said no  
and they said   it is so safe there that you can leave your purse on the subway  
and somebody will turn it in  
and and nothing will be missing  
they said they can just about guarantee that there that that would happen if you did that  
i thought boy in america   if you left a purse on a subway you would never see it again  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
but i was thinking boy in dallas if somebody asked me if there were places you wouldn't go by yourself at night i'd have to set them down for about five or ten minutes to list all the places out  
i mean i couldn't believe that she couldn't think of any place  
they said the apparently the crime is just uh  
i'm not sure what it is there  
now i know what it is in singapore is they have the death penalty  
and they really enforce it  
like for drugs for drugs they they enforce the death penalty for that  
uh they're just very very tough  
and i guess maybe that's the way tokyo is too or japan is too  
they're just very tough on criminals  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and if they're overcrowded well you know   they shouldn't have gotten [theirself] there in the first place  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i agree because it's not fair to those of us that that deserve a safe you know life to have to  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
not much  
yeah  
huh_uh  
and especially not in some of these big cities  
like in dallas i mean they've had  
they're up in the top top five i think of cities that are getting policeman killed on on in the line of duty  
and that's really sad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
all set  
do you want to start  
sure go ahead  
do they have many buildings that have security there  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i went to dallas uh when i worked for t i in abilene  
and uh   i'm a little familiar with the city area forest lane and you know through that off off the freeway  
and uh it didn't seem like it was that congested in that that part  
you know because to me where we live out here in the north east it it's there are a lot of buildings very close to each other  
and the cities are very populated with [tenement] housing   where there are more than one family in a house   and with the uh people that are coming into the country from other countries not knowing the language  
and uh they're going to the big cities  
it makes it very difficult  
it really does  
and and i've seen the same thing that you're talking about uh much more crime than ever before   drugs of course uh a big part of it i think  
and uh i don't know  
a lot of younger people you know into more violent crimes  
that that's really sad you know  
you got young boys or girls that at fourteen or twelve years old that are committing murders and no remorse what so ever  
yeah  
it is  
and and i don't know if it's uh the family you know thing where they're not bonding anymore where mothers are working all the time and   the kids aren't getting the attention that they need or the television  
and i i really think that we're we're falling by the wayside with not [incarcerating] these people  
uh uh  
yeah exactly  
and uh you know they had uh  
in fact on the news last night we were watching this uh man who lost his ten year old daughter  
he ran out to the store for a few minutes  
and he had left her home alone  
now ten years old  
she's old enough to be alone for a few minutes you know  
and while he was gone he had looked went looking for a job and stopped at the store  
that's what it was  
and uh someone who was in the neighborhood cleaning carpets these two men went in raped the girl murdered her   and the whole bit  
and one of the men got uh i think it was seventeen years  
and the other one was in for uh life imprisonment  
the one that was in for the seventeen years actually served seven  
and he's out  
and the man said that you know if it weren't for the fact that he would go to jail that he would eliminate this person himself   and then go to mcdonalds and have a hamburger and not thing a thing think a thing about it  
and i mean i think that what this is going to lead to is people will take things into their own hands   and that innocent people  
i i shouldn't say innocent because i mean actually if they commit a crime that they're in the same circumstances  
but  
the reasons that they're doing it compared to the reason someone else is in jail for it you know it's like two different things  
sometimes when you lose someone that you really love you do some crazy things  

i don't know  
i i like the idea that uh if someone is from a foreign country   and they come to this country and uh commit a crime i think that [irregardless] of whether they have already become a citizen or anything they should be immediately [deported]  
especially if they're found guilty of the crime  
you know once they they have been arrested  
and if they know beyond a shadow of a doubt these people are guilty  
that's it  
we don't take care of them  
we don't support them   nothing  
i mean they go right back where they came from  
exactly  
and  
but that's uh they're so close  
i i don't consider mexican people in the same category with uh   especially like uh people who come from cultures that don't have the same uh kind of moral [upbringing] that we have  
like you take asian countries or uh the eastern countries where women are like in the [foreground]   uh in the background and the men are in the [foreground]  
and it's like you know   um they live back in where we came from two hundred years ago  
you know we've advanced beyond that  
and i think that their uh mentality as far as the way they treat them and that kind of thing  
you know what i mean  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow  
wow  
you better believe it  
if  
you wouldn't even have to leave it  
i mean  
it would get [snatched] right off your arm  
oh sure  
that's amazing  
well what's the difference there  
do you know  
oh i i believe in the death penalty  
i really do  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that we're too easy  
uh and we take the the uh civil liberties uh stuff too far  
you know like people that are in prison i mean we didn't put them there  
they put themselves in that situation  
and as far as like them uh entertaining the rights that they should have  
i mean we educate them  
we feed them  
we take care of them  
and they no sooner get out on the street and they're back in again  
i'm not saying they're all bad  
but i think people who are guilty of really serious heinous crimes   do not deserve to be cared for for the rest of their lives  
i think that they should be put away  
get rid of them  
exactly  
i i really i i think that that's the whole key here  
this plea bargaining baloney   where uh you know they plead to a lesser crime or uh they plead guilty in or you know tell about someone else and they they get less time  
or if they're in there and they've got seventeen years and they're on good behavior for every year they're in they get so many less you know that they don't serve the full penalty  
i i i really think we're going to far overboard with all of this  
yeah  
same with drunk drivers  
i think it's too easy for them  
that if the the laws and and were were [harsher] and were enforced  
i mean you have to set an example  
you have to start somewhere  
and i think that people know that they're going to get a slap on the wrist they might serve a little bit of time and that they'll be out on the street again  
an it an i feel bad for the policeman   because he's out there every day facing these people   this this craziness you know people with uh automatic weapons and uh all this other stuff and trying to do a job  
and let's face it  
what do they get paid  
twenty thousand dollars a year if they're lucky  
i wouldn't do it for that  
it is it really is  
and i mean they're the first ones that take the [brunt] of everything  
you know and i'm not saying that they're all good either because there's good and bad in everything  
but they they're already uh have three strikes against them when they're out there  
because they'll arrest someone and you know go through all that paperwork and writing a report and all this and having all kinds of evidence  
and you have to even be careful how you arrest them how you talk to them uh you know what they say  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i  
i'm i'm from butler  
and i can't say that there's too much of that there  
um i know the bigger cities have problems with it  
uh i really don't know what we can do about it  
unless   they start enforcing the uh  
uh start giving more people death sentences  
that's the only thing i can think of  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i uh i don't know what they're going to do with the problem because it just keeps getting worse and worse  
um i'm a senior at clarion university  
well   not only that a lot of them's not even turned in  
you know   what i mean  
a lot of times   the girls don't even report it  
um i've heard of a few case up here  
but i can't say that i've heard of uh you know any significant amount  
uh but then again like you don't know how many girls are reporting them or not  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh see you see now i would say that that's a bigger problem up here than even the date rape or anything  
i know a lot of people that [partake] in that  
and i'm not saying they're bad people  
but i i i would say that's a bigger problem  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no i don't either  
uh  
no  
i can't say that i i just know that it's really bad in some areas  
and something's going to have to be done sooner  
but  
i don't i don't know what they can do  
uh_huh  
well  
it was nice talking to you  
you too  
bye  
okay  
what can we do about crime  
i don't know  
the one thing that keeps coming to mind to me is that they're they don't have enough space in the prisons to put people  
and they keep letting out people that have you know these horrible records  
so maybe we need to have more prisons or use the old army bases and make them into prisons or something  
that's one thing i guess i could think of  
uh it's definitely a big concern  
i mean every day it's you know all  
we live in a little small town  
and there's just rapes and murders and [burglaries] and everything all the time  
and you just can't get away from it no matter where you live  
so it's pretty scary  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's rough because  
yeah  
yeah  
well even some of the sentences just seem ridiculous  
i mean you hear about people you know six and seven times have committed [burglaries]  
and they're still you know only serving six months in prison  
so that's definitely something  
they could have a more automatic sentence instead of having the judge having the choice of like you know from one month to ten years or something  
that would be one thing that you know i think could help is having the laws be changed so that they were more stiff penalties and more automatic penalties you know for certain crimes  
yeah  
yeah  
and one things that they're saying now  
are you going  
are you a student  
or are you in the work force  
or  
oh okay  
because one of the things that i've heard so much about um lately is the situations on campus where crime has gone up so much  
and apparently many of the especially like in date rape many of the uh you know [perpetrators] seem to be getting off because the universities kind of cover up  
and they don't really  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they say like only one in ten are reported  
i believe it  
that's awful  
so one thing they could do is probably support people more reporting it  
i know some police agencies try to have women police officers that the women can report to and this kind of thing  
but i'm sure it's still terribly [traumatizing] you know for people to report it  
so that's probably something else they could do  
i don't know  
it seems like something else in terms of crime is certainly involved with drugs   you know  
and that's like as long as  
it almost makes me feel in a way like making drugs [legalized] just to get all the money out of it and not have you know  
because these kids are saying why should i go to high school  
and so i can go out and work at burger king you know for four dollars an hour or whatever when i can make four hundred dollars a day selling drugs  
so that's certainly a big problem  
i don't know what the solution to that is  
having more drug treatment centers available  
jeez i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
because it ends up  
even if it's just kind of like this social drug use you're still ending up supporting these big drug pin you know  
huge amounts thousand and millions and millions of dollars are getting spent you know on higher and higher up   on drugs  
and it's definitely got to do with crime  
you know you hear about people selling their babies you know to get some crack  
i mean just oh  
gosh horrible stuff like that  
one of the things they're doing is is they're prosecuting the women who are having these kids that are addicted to crack  
they said uh some of the statistics show like one out of every ten babies being born in these public hospitals are addicted to crack  
and their moms are crack users  
so that's you know another way of looking at it is as the woman is being a criminal you know for doing that to her child  
so i don't know who's the victim there  
i mean the kids are the victim it seems like a lot of times the women are victims because they're addicted  
and it's a very complicated problem  
i don't envy the government trying to cope with it gosh  
yeah  
well i guess that's about all i have to say  
is there anything else you would want to  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's frustrating  
okay  
well   thanks for talking  
have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
well i heard dallas is pretty bad with the crime  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the same way here in dennison  
i mean uh back a couple weeks ago they found uh some people i don't remember at some fast food restaurant  
they had been i can't remember if they had been shot or if they had just been thrown in the freezer  
but i'm pretty sure they'd been shot and put the freezer at the fast   food restaurant  
and i've worked worked in fast food restaurants  
they don't have that much money on hand  
they really don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
my husband worked at a gas station when he was a teenager  
and he well i don't know he decided not to work one night or something  
and one of the guys that was working was shot  
and kenny quit the next day  
he just he couldn't deal with it  
uh_huh  
everywhere  
uh_huh  
it just seems like a lot of people are attracted to the bigger cities though  
the worst part of it  
um i lived in louisville kentucky for a while  
but i lived on the outskirts too  
but louisville was pretty bad especially during like the uh kentucky [derby]  
at this time of the year it's horrible to live in louisville  
but uh  
uh_huh  
the ones that blink off and on  
by themselves i mean  
right  
uh_huh  
how many kids do you have  
oh  
a boy or  
oh that's what i've got  
it is scary  
are your are they babies or  
oh well good that they're a comfort to you  
i've still got babies  
okay  
i've got a a four year old he'll be four and a three month old  
and it's scary   sometimes  
i'm used to living in uh  
which  
we don't live in the city  
but we just  
it's still more crowded than what i'm used to  
i'm used to having you know eight or ten houses on one street  
and this one's got houses on either side and you know   real close together  
and just  
right  
oh oh well  
we think our neighbors are stealing from us actually my husband  
they uh well the one of them's a teenager that lives next door  
and her friends are pretty wild  
they've stolen gas out of our vehicles  
and so he went and got a locking gas cap for his  
they weren't stealing it out of mine so much because my car the gas thing is kind of weird where it's hard to   [syphon] gas out  
so he he went and got a locking cap  
and they tried to break that off  
and you excuse me   he went down to [uba] and noticed that it was hanging off where where they had tried to break it off  
and they stole our [tailgate] off his truck  
well we can't say they did  
but  
we're pretty  
yeah  
it had to be somebody that you know could do it in the middle of the night  
and you know they'd seen it earlier  
uh_huh  
well the only thing that we can do as citizens is you know like uh watch groups that they'll have  
but they can be dangerous too  
i've thought about it  
you know that this isn't like walking around and looking for somebody  
you can get yourself into trouble  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i watched it on t v oh i guess last year sometime  
they'll break in at the day in the daytime  
and i hear that you know it's if you lock yourself out of your house  
and you try to get in your house  
it will  
you give  
that half the time it takes you to break in  
uh a professional could break in in   half that time  
yeah  
it is  
uh_huh  
i'm getting me uh i want a german shepherd  
um i don't want any of those ones that will up the kids  
but i do want a german shepherd  
because my husband will leave every once in a while   for  
he works on the railroad  
and i'm scared here by myself  
and loud  
uh_huh  
the cocker spaniels are loud  
well that's   now that's one of the best [deterrents] for a [robber] is a noisy neighbor even if the neighbor's got a noisy dog  
that's a deterrent  
because they know that that dog's going to bark  
but it's easy to fool a dog too  
you know throw them meat or  
um a a real intense burglar can just get another dog that's in heat  
from what i've  
you know saw it on t v  
yeah  
it was  
and i maybe we'll meet up again  
all righty  
bye bye  
well you know you know last night i was listening to the uh ten o'clock news  
and for the first five to seven minutes of a news broadcast all they were talking about was the number of shootings the number of drug deals that were going on and crime  
and and it's so depressing just to even listen to the news anymore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i did too  
i remember i used to work at uh kentucky fried chicken  
and and i just couldn't believe um you know that  
now i would hate to work at a fast food restaurant or even have my children work in one  
and uh because of uh the crime  
that they would um kill people just for the few couple hundred dollars that they would have in there   uh in their cash drawer  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i understand what your talking about  
so yeah  
i have uh uh you know a real problem uh  
even though i live further out in the suburbs   the crime follows you anywhere  
it it doesn't matter if you live in a small town or if you live in a small town or if you live in a large city like this  
um so but i just think about the all the different ways that we have to protect ourselves from  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so i don't know um you know  
it's asking about what kind of steps we can take um uh you know just as citizens to try and um uh protect ourselves  
i know i have uh um home security system  
plus i have the uh the special lights on on the outside  
and i have  
yeah  
that uh  
yeah  
yeah  
by themselves  
if you if there's some kind of movement   then they'll automatically come on um  
but i mean it's just i'm constantly think about keeping us safe and protected   verses um  
two  
two  
one of each  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
no  
there teenagers now  
yeah  
oh wow  
yeah  
that's a problem  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's different  
yeah  
living down here  
now now the nice thing uh  
i feel a little bit more comfort since we're so close together like this um  
i i feel like that there's going to be uh less crime  
or your neighbors going to be watching out for you um   because it's it's practically it's in their backyard too  
oh goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh goodness  
someone did  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know that it's a real problem  
it doesn't matter where you are anymore  
it's uh more of a matter of what you the steps that you do to keep yourself safe  
and um so that's that's why i try and uh do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i was going home the other day  
and i saw um a guy who who looked like he was breaking into a window  
and i thought gee whiz you know i don't know if he's really doing that or not or if he's he's the person who lives there uh  
you know and and i was thinking well i need to call the police when i get back home  
and because it was about oh about four or five blocks from where we live  
and uh and i thought no you know because i wouldn't know if that was really a [robber] or not because it was in broad daylight  
but anymore you know the crime happens in daylight   as it does in in night  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
half that time  
wow  
i mean that's so scary  
so scary you you think you've got yourself all locked in and safe  
and and uh somebody could break in uh  
oh i have a dog  
that's the one thing that i like  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
so that's uh  
we have a little dog now  
but he is just as vicious as is you know if you  
and loud  
yeah  
and i thought that uh you know we'd have to have a big dog  
but we doesn't need a big dog  
we got this little bitty dog that uh  
part dachshunds and part cocker spaniel  
and he um ease very protective  
yeah  
very protective  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh wow gosh  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
okay  
bye bye  
well i do not know  
how big a city is rome  
i mean you have heard about dallas  
and the crime here is pretty bad  
yeah  
i was going to say  
uh_huh  
yeah  
have you ever been there  
that is uh probably enough to see  
um are you in college right now  
oh okay  
are base  
that's interesting concept  
are bases safe you know  
yeah  
the they uh minimize the access  
uh_huh  
oh no  
sure  
oh great  
that   is wonderful  
yeah  
well dallas uh  
we lived in minneapolis uh  
we moved here about ten months ago  
and dallas is pretty uh  
well we live in north north dallas which is like a suburb near a suburb called plano  
so we are out of the city  
but it is uh it is bad everywhere in terms of uh you know the handgun situation um the number of rapes the number of [muggings]  
just it is it is  
i would not say it is not as bad as new york  
but it is pretty scary  
you know people put bars on their windows in certain neighborhoods  
and  
you know they call them ornamental grates  
but they are still bars  
yeah  
it really does  
and if you are a little bit [claustrophobic]  
but uh i do not know  
i mean the jails are crowded  
i i i am not a criminal justice specialist  
so i do not know what you know what can be done  
i am   you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
were they teenagers  
or  
like that girl in new york that got beat up by you know  
when she was jogging   in central park   a couple of years ago  
yeah  
yeah  
but they so they weren't you know  
and were they uh were they were they obviously poor or you know  
that is really  
like i say  
yeah  
unless they stole it  
and i mean that is one big thing down here  
i mean they have like uh  
and they are not all young  
i mean they are eighteen to twenty four some of the young men and women  
but i mean you can you can see the crime [stoppers] ads on television  
and they are  
sometimes it is the same people that have been that have been observed  
and they still can't catch them  
and you are wondering how you know um we lived in minneapolis and wisconsin  
i mean there was all kind of  
i i know i i i know it is getting worse  
i do not know what the world is or is not uh  
the  
in a small town in wisconsin near madison um a young boy somehow got a hold of a shotgun   and killed his parents and his three brothers and sisters  
and the child had  
and he they said that he was twelve years old  
and he had uh he had not uh displayed any tendencies [deviant] or disturbed or whatever you know  
and you are thinking to yourself um  
i know  
that  
and i do not think a lot of parents  
i mean i do not i do not know how it is in the air force base  
but uh i just do not think a lot of people because of the economy both need to work you know  
i just do not think a lot of parents are that involved any more  
uh  
right  
and discipline  
i do not know how your folks were  
but i mean i sure knew as heck when i was growing up that uh my parents were the superior  
and i was the [subordinate]  
and you know   it was sort of like there were boundaries  
and i do not think i do not know i think today a lot of parents um are ruled by their kids  
i i  
yeah  
right  
i mean they are not learning how to uh well like boundaries  
i mean i do not i see it in work place too sometimes  
i do not know how old you are  
but you sound a little bit younger than me  
but i am in my thirties  
and i uh i see uh even people that work with me that are ten years younger  
that you know they kind of have an attitude that i i hate to to say it  
but it's that's just what it is  
it is an attitude   like   the world owes them something  
do you  
are you in the air force  
okay  
sure  
huh  
right  
right  
right  
and the air force is one of the bitter better military supposedly military experiences  
i mean  
pardon me  
i mean that is  
are you going to be a career person  
i'm [digressing]  
but   i do not talk to many people in the   military  
so i am  
that is the way to do it  
i mean and that's  
you know at least the air force is  
i do not know i just uh i am nervous in dallas  
i mean i you know i mean i go to like an aerobics class or something  
and i you know uh seventy women in a jazzercise class in a public uh parks and rec building  
and you are supposed to feel safe  
but then there are all these  
it does not matter race  
but you know it is an inter racial mix  
and you see these guys standing there watching you jump around in your [leotards]  
and i do not even think that way  
but i mean you just think to yourself you you just i mean  
nobody can think that that it can't happen to them  
no matter who they are  
or where they are at you know  
i mean did you  
i do not know i was in the grocery store this morning  
we uh went to new orleans for four days and came back late last night driving  
and it is about seven hours  
um and that is a very  
we had never been there  
that is a very very neat town to visit   uh in terms of the french quarter and all of the things   you hear about  
but the crime is so bad there  
i mean in all the tourist brochures you read about what you should or should not do  
how to carry   your wallet uh  
new orleans  
yeah  
i would never  
yeah  
you just do not  
do not even bother  
it is not worth it  
uh the when we came back i do not know if you have seen  
i was in the super market this morning  
and on the cover of time magazine there is a girl she is in boston  
she is on the east coast somewhere  
real attractive young girl  
college freshman i college coed  
i think she is a freshman  
she had been dating a fellow for several   weeks  
they went back to her dorm room  
and date rape  
i mean and it just  
she looked [anguished]  
i mean it was really just sad  
i mean did not pick it up and read it  
but i should have  
but i just looked at the picture and thought what a world  
i mean i do not  
yeah  
i do not have any uh cure  
no  
you really can't  
i mean i they we lease out a really nice two story town home in north dallas  
and they have a real big thing here  
people i mean even dry [cleaners] knock on the door and are soliciting you know  
they everybody wants your business kind of thing  
and my husband is the kind of guy he's he's sometime  
he was raised on a farm in southern ohio near dayton  
and i think sometimes it is just he and i are very different in terms of that  
i i mean i basically have started not to trust   anybody in general street smarts  
and uh he opened the door  
i came downstairs  
and i was real upset  
and i probably got more nasty than i should have  
but i just said howard  
you know  
oh my god  
i would not i mean  
oh yeah  
and it does i mean it is it is not a reason  
i mean i have been to new york  
you should not deny yourself going to visit   and all that  
uh but it is not any worse  
i used to work for a mortgage company that was owned by uh  
are you from boston  
home owners savings and loan in boston  
and i know i never felt  
i mean i have been to downtown new york city  
and i have been to downtown boston  
and i never felt any safer on milk street in boston staying at the [meridian]  
i did not pay for  
but i mean i never felt any safer there than i did in any other city   i have been in you know  
so i would say one thing  
do not deny yourself the new york experience but go with people that you know  
no uh  
but i mean it yeah i do not know  
i mean i i guess i could go on and on about what to do about criminals uh  
i think the handgun  
i am not real big on guns   myself  
so  
i mean  
are the new york uh are the new york  
i do not know how the new york state prison system   is  
but   are they booked up  
that is a way to put it  
they are booked up  
are they paroling uh like murderers  
and i mean here it is just a real big deal  
they parole people that have killed police officers  
and then they are out doing it again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
and then you think i mean i i mean i can remember i have not been out of school that long  
but it has been at least ten years  
and you think to yourself was it that bad back then  
or is it just  
i think that like you said television  
is it just that more people think there is like excitement in it you know  
i mean people that may have been close to the edge just go over because they see something or read something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh god  
it is yeah isn't it something  
i mean i i have a i am originally from pittsburgh pennsylvania  
and i have a niece and nephew  
and i just uh i mean  
my ten year old nephew says things that he is aware of that i am just going michael   how did you hear about that  
you know it is just i think kids get too   much too fast   and all those sort of things  
in atlanta where my [inlaws] live uh they had that thing you know the high top sneakers   the air [jordans] et cetera  
kids killing each other and beating their brains out  
right  
or the or the jackets the team like the raiders   and the caps  
you know stealing the hundred dollar jackets  
uh i mean it is i guess it goes from the most petty like that to like what you were saying that they in boston  
that is crime where they [videoed]  
that is probably one of the most   bizarre i have heard of  
where they videotape themselves  
okay  
well rome is pretty small  
but uh  
we hear a lot about uh new york city  
there is a lot of crime down there  
and i am i am afraid to go down there because you know i mean you hear about people getting mugged  
you leave your car for ten minutes  
and it is stripped when you come back  
no  
i have not  
only to the airport  
no  
i am i work at for the air force  
so there is a base up here  
and  
bases are pretty safe because they check your i d on your way in  
and  
right  
but even so we had a uh uh  
at new years   we had some people come in and uh like attack one of the planes because they were protesting uh   the presence over in the persian gulf  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
that makes it bad for getting out during a fire  
i do not   i do not know  
it seems to  
i think it is getting worse because i keep hearing things  
like i when i was i went home  
my parents live in boston  
but i went home  
and   we were watching t v  
and this thing came on where these a group of like five or six guys went and filmed themselves beating up people in the street and and robbing   them  
and it was really disgusting  
and my mom was like they should just be all shot right now  
and i mean you  
uh  
yeah  
yeah um  
they were not i think they were early twenties  
they were young men  
i know it  
how deprived could they be if they had a [camcorder]  
those are a thousand bucks  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i wonder where  
i do not know  
i wonder where he gets it  
you know you must  
i think t v is bad because they uh show all sorts of violence on  
yeah  
they do not they do not talk to their kids and take them out  
and and   are not there all the time  
so the kids are off to their own devices a lot  
oh definitely  
i think so definitely  
when you go to a restaurant and like kids are running all over the place they  
yep  
but   they  
right  
i i see that too in the air force  

oh yeah  
a lot of uh  
especially since a lot of us are engineers where i work  
i am in the air force  
yes  
and so uh people outside the air force doing engineering get paid a lot more than we do  
and so all the young engineers are like well i am just going you know  
get it for all it is worth  
and that   you know  
and i am like you are the one who signed up  
if you did not want to do it  
and  
yep  
it is  
i like it a lot  
i like it so far  
oh  
probably not  
but uh they pay for my college  
so  
yeah  
it  
yeah  
and you never know who is watching either  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
this is new orleans  
oh i would hate to be there during mardi gras  
let me tell  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
you can't trust anybody  
it is it is really scary  
right  
right  
we  
uh_huh  
well you you   hear about people opening the door and getting blown away  
or people you know   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
i would not want to go by myself  
uh_huh  
i think our   justice system needs to be stricter i mean because everyone they do it  
and then they get out in a couple of years it seems like   they are   booked up  
yeah  
right um  
i do not i do not know because i am not real up on   a lot of news things  
but you know you just   hear about that that you know  
it is a lot of repeat crime  
and you are like why are they repeating  
they should have been in there longer  
or  
it seems like a lot of  
that it is more like in boston  
there was a case of uh a couple of kids fifteen year olds  
they wanted to see what it was like to kill someone  
so they they picked on this   kid who was like new in town  
and they were like well no one was going to miss him anyway you know  
and it like  
ugh that is horrible  
how can you even think like that  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh for the sneakers  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it seems like crime is turning into a [pastime] instead of like you know be  
i have uh  
i well i used to have the opinion that there that there really was not any more crime in america in the cities anyway than there was in previous centuries uh before uh  
simply because  
the reason there seems to be so much was the fact that the police now had advanced uh reporting methods with computers and other devices  
that's right  
and those statistics in turn got them bigger budgets  
however i have been persuaded lately i guess simply by the uh overwhelming data that seems to be available that there is indeed a lot more violent crime  
well yeah  
no  
i am in i am in washington d c  
actually it  
you know i do a lot of business here  
and i come here quite often  
and and that again is a is a sort of media perception there's some absolutely lovely and marvelous and peaceful areas in washington   regardless of the racial makeup  
but it's it's real uh  
there's pockets of violence that is so violent that they uh  
yeah  
right  
now just to focus on that a minute i guess uh uh  
when uh previous secretary of uh [bennett] i think his name was   became the drug czar uh for uh president bush he was going to focus on it on this area and do something about it  
and i see that even he was met without with with little success even though the entire i guess a a quite a bit of money and other uh planning efforts went into that  
well  
yes  
well i i have three theories about it you know three things  
i have one theory  
and it's brought to us by two things  
one i i believe that this is a function of uh the violence that young people see on television and the movies  
and i am not just talking about you know uh role models of of tough guys and [gangsters] and things like that  
i am not even i am not even convinced that maybe things like football hockey and the you know the and even baseball games now where the everything is settled with a fight you know the the immediate need to show some sort of violence to settle   the argument  
and and then i i am an advocate of hand gun control to some degree  
so i think that particularly  
i i was reading the other day about uh corpus christi texas which has the the highest  
i think it's corpus christi that had the highest rates per hand gun death in america   uh per capita  
i mean the saturday night special stuff  
so  
that that's what i think about it  
that's some of the things i think about it  
plus i do not know  
what are your views  
yes  

well that's that's that's the impression i get you know  
and i and i imagine that it's you know it just feeds upon itself when we have this sort of violence in society  
people want to  
it conditions people to it  
and uh you have to  
it has to be even uh magnified to to attract people's attention i guess   to have them spend money on something like that  
and i am sure that it does form role models for young for young men and young women  
and  
uh i mean i i read now where we are you know  
women are young women are arrested fighting with knives over over whatever   whatever reason which is kind of unheard of when i was young  
now i do not want to sound like an old [fart]  
but   that's what  
seems that those things happened did not happen in that manner before television  
and i i i i have to think that that it has some influence on it  
but  
yeah  
no  
oh yes  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
well i mean i i guess what i wanted to say and i stopped uh i do not know i got diverted was that that uh there's so there's so much of a return from to prison that the rehabilitation programs seem to be a failure  
and and that is not emphasized  
i recognize there's there's over crowding problems  
and and since we have decided to put everybody in jail that commits a crime now that that's complicated the entire process  
what i also think that  
i guess it's the reflection of the society where where we have so much more mobility and less attachment to uh  
you know it does not seem to be any responsibility to the community where you where you live  
or i do not mean attachment and responsibility  
i guess i mean any sort of  
yes  
that's right  
yeah  
i i do not know how that's  
i do not think it's done by uh  
the changes come simply by [statutory] nature  
i do not know what it really will take  
and i do not know if i have solutions except except to  
you know i am sort of a a an advocate of of uh of letting people of having free speech  
and i guess to curb uh  
television uh the violence on television and in the movies would be contrary to my beliefs in that  
however there does seem to be a  
right now in [verbalizing]  
it does seem to be a higher need for something of that sort  
and the sacrifice is not that great  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
i think i think that's correct  
well texas has uh texas has uh has always struck me  
i mean i i i have lived in and out of texas both in the service and uh uh short business [stints]  
and it seems to me they are a pretty pretty tough law and order state  
but that's a  
but yet that does not seem to have effected the amount of violent right in the state  
just [citing] that you know  
yeah  
yeah  
[compile] more statistics  
uh_huh  
more especially where you are  
are you   in washington d c or washington state  
yeah  
yeah  
i was going to say  
oh yeah  
it just really grabs your attention  
it just makes the whole place seem like that  
yeah  
what do you what do you think is causing all this  
because it seems that there  
even though  
crime though i think it is increasing in number it sure does seem to be increasing in [intensity]   and violence too  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
i was i have not seen that  
but uh  
yeah  
well yeah  
i tend to agree with you with you know  
it seems anymore uh a movie can not be considered good unless there's just some some sort of violence   or something in it  
and and along with that you know  
and then you start making a movie and it has no there's no call for something violent  
but so they just throw something in there just to say they have it  
yeah  
yeah  
you become [callous]  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
i listened to a radio talk show today at lunch time   uh rush lynn bottom  
i do not know if you listen to him or not  
he's on a m  
but there's a fellow that had called in and was [lamenting] about the  
there was an interview done on the assistant chief of police for los angeles the guy under gates  
and they were just really coming down on him because of some of the things he was just some of the things that he believed in some of his morals  
for instance uh they asked him if he spanked his kids  
and he said you bet i believe in discipline  
and people i i i i guess they confused discipline with punishment  
you know  
and just  
it seems anymore that uh if if you have you know this type of a moral stance that people come down on you  
it's like you know hey everybody has to be free to do their own thing  
and i disagree  
and i think that's really contributing to this high rate of crime  
yeah  
well nobody feels responsibility to do something  
it's like oh boy i wish they would stop doing that  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
and then how many  
how many studies have to be done to show that there is a link between   you know what you see and how  
i mean what you see affects how you think and therefore what you do  
and yes  
but you know as soon as you start uh  
yeah  
uh unfortunately you have got a lot of the uh  
some well a lot of it can be contributed to the racial differences i mean just that we are so close   to the border with mexico  
we have got a lot of that influence  
well it depends where in dallas you are  
there are certainly parts of town i would not want to live in  
because it's the situation  
it is very location dependent  
and there are parts of town here where when they talk about the nightly gunfire  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that uh the what they call the [latchkey] children  
yeah  
the sort of on my end is more of the upper middle class  
so   i think our uh  
not that we don't have a certain amount of local problems  
but on the other hand uh we get the uh affect of the uh the city  
and uh the main crimes within the suburb here are the the theft crimes   a small number of assaults  
uh well if we have one murder a year   that's probably as many  
but then you know you go into dallas and they are unfortunately   uh having murders   at a rate greater than one a day  
uh_huh  
well the thing is i don't  
it's one of those things where if you're a grad student you can appreciate the statistics on  
unfortunately there are often these [correlations] that are [inverse] of what they should be like uh wherever there are more uh criminals there are more policemen  
but that's which came first  
but on the other side of it is  
it's it's basically the the problem is within the in the society   and the society's views  
and well uh since now i'm in my mid forties when i was in grad school or when i was an undergraduate growing up in a more rural area   i thought you know crime was was reasonably unknown   and just the situation that's developed with the the drug   aspect of uh   uh the pushers the dealers and the addicts uh  
because it just was not uh something back in the sixties that   uh i even had to worry about  
but i think you know that there is a lot in the society where things have changed  
uh so it's effected all of us  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you know in a sense i don't i'm i have real mixed feelings on that  
because it comes a bit from the angle that the uh uh  
it would certainly be an interesting test  
but the other side of it to me  
uh  
well the other side is that unfortunately some of the down side  
and i think if i look back fifty or a hundred years i'd say you know back then there were the [opium] [dens]  
but the thing is if somebody ruined their life uh society didn't try to then save themselves from it  
they let this person who had ruined it   uh become well die or whatever  
i mean   they probably became [weakened] physically and other things to the point that their life [expectancy] was real short  
but now we tend to believe somewhere in the health care system otherwise  
we need to take care of people even if they have you know physically ruined themselves  
yeah  
and so to me that's  
i uh i would certainly like to see a real test of of making drugs real cheap   to see if when you make them available people then don't use them  
uh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well some of that  
and of course i'm a baby of the old school  
but it it bothers me from the fifties on  
not that i'd remember that much   from the fifties  
but but basically we have so much more of the something for nothing mentality  
and so they  
in the  
there were the sixty four thousand dollar question shows in the fifties  
but nowadays there's so much on tv where where people seem to have the idea they can get something for nothing  
of course   uh i work for lawyers a lot  
and i see unfortunately we have this whole mentality that somehow there are these pots of money out there that you can sue somebody and you know there's a million dollars you can have   uh for mental [duress] or whatever  
but you know the other thing that bothers me in the crime is the uh  
in europe they seem to have mentality  
and drunk driving is a good one  
is that people are well indoctrinated in their society that [drunken] driving is unacceptable  
and yeah  
if you're going to drink and you may drink you better have your designated driver  
in this country and for example with alcohol or with drugs is we don't seem to understand how to handle it as a society to say okay it is okay under these circumstances but if you step outside these bounds the punishment is extreme   and we mean it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but that kind of shows how our attitude toward drinking   and driving was uh [misplaced]   for years  
that you know it was an acceptable social behavior  
what are what does your city have for gun control if anything  
well hal what's uh what's crime like in dallas  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
in baltimore we have similar  
uh i live on the outskirts of baltimore  
and uh we live right outside the city  
and our neighborhood is pretty much working class people though i'm in graduate school uh  
i live here because it's close to the university  
but you know we have uh  
it it's really funny  
the only crime we really see is uh just the kids being malicious  
you know and i think most of that is because their parents aren't around  
that make sense  
yeah  
yeah  
something like that  
no one's you know  
or or fathers are just missing you know  
so there's no uh no consistency there in the home or whatever  
there's no one to tell them what's right and what's wrong you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's we're about the same in baltimore  
though uh washington i think is uh close by  
and you know they experience a lot more  
i think they definitely have more problems that uh in in the area  
what what do you think can prevent crime  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think   uh_huh  
yeah  
i i i think i agree with you there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think they the drug culture definitely has uh is one of the main problems  
yeah  
our uh our mayor in uh baltimore is one of the people that goes on national television and says they should uh [legalize] drugs   because it would eliminate the uh the violence and the uh the the the market i guess the the hidden market of the drugs and everything that goes along with it  
that make sense  
he's one of the big [proponents] of that  
he gets on national television and and says that you know  
so it's uh  
and he was a a district attorney before and a prosecutor before becoming becoming mayor  
so that's a really  
you know it's a different viewpoint  
i uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what happens if we lose worse  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
they have [induced] it themselves  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think   you know they did that in alaska that that actually alaska just recently [legalized] marijuana  
but i never i never heard results or anything like that  
so i never you know  
plus that's such a that's not a true uh you know it really couldn't be a good test because [alaska's] so different than every other part of the country  
you know so that but that was interesting you know  
i i don't  
crime is one of those things that's uh  
i i don't know you know  
the drug culture  
the uh the uh you know  
i i see it with the kids in the neighborhood just stealing things not thinking anything wrong with it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
we worked hard for everything  
that's very true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that i think that uh the drunk driving has just actually just caught on  
uh   and i i i really uh  
my father was hit by a drunk driver when i was in high school  
and uh that was a very uh that that was an awful three years afterwards you know of recovery   and the difficulties and uh everything we did  
and you know the guy went free because this was twelve years ago   thirteen years ago  
there was no  
his father was even the uh police chief of the town  
so there was no [repercussion] at all you know other than insurance  
but he was uninsured  
so uh our insurance paid for everything  
but it was a very difficult time  
and and then later this was actually funny my brother and i were picked up by the police for questioning because this fellow had bought a a new car  
and somebody had taken like a baseball bat to it   and broke all his windows and his lights and his [dented] it everywhere  
and they came and questioned us  
you know and  
right  
uh_huh  
yep   uh_huh  
yeah  
very much so  
yeah  
that those are some important points  
yeah  
i  
that's those are  
well see maryland is one of the most  
we just voted in uh gun control strong gun control here in the state of maryland  
i i think  
okay  
um does is this something that concerns you  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
well i live outside of dallas  
and it's kind of in a little suburb  
so i feel pretty safe out here  
but i know the murder rate is going up every year   in dallas  
and that worries me  
yeah  
yeah  
there's a little boy just got shot and killed like last weekend down in what they call the projects which is   you know sort of a bad area  
but he was just out riding his big wheel  
and a couple of drug people got into a fight with a gun  
and he got hit and killed by a stray bullet  
that's really sad  
i've  
so you know it must be   frustrating for the parents who can't get out of a situation like that  
it'd be so scary  
it really doesn't  
it's kind of scary  
i think that uh i think the laws have gotten so lenient you know  
the court systems are too lenient  
i think that's part of the problem  
yeah  
they do that here too  
but i say you know they commit crimes let them be overcrowded you know   let them suffer a little bit  
yeah  
i think so  
i think if they knew it was going to be really horrible wherever they were going maybe they'd think twice about doing it  
yeah  
you know the other thing that worries about it is kids that are doing such bad crimes so young you know like eleven and twelve and thirteen year olds that just go out and kill   people  
they  
i don't know if that's just a symptom of society and the breakdown of family and everything  
but that worries me  
i wonder   what the next generation will be like  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
seems like if they had more immediate uh consequences to their actions it would sink in faster   really  
yeah  
yeah  
because it seems like now even in the country you hear about bad things happening  
yeah  
i think they have them in dallas because i hear them talking about in the schools different things happening  
and they've had some drive by shootings outside of the schools  
me either  
yeah  
seemed like like in the fifties when gangs were big  
it was just to be part of the gang  
but now they're so much into selling drugs   and weapons and all that  
it's pretty scary  
really  
yeah  
those machine guns and all that  
yeah  
that's scary  
it's a wonder there's anybody who's willing to be a policeman anymore  
yeah  
dallas they were saying in dallas that they can't hire anymore policemen  
but they keep losing them all the time  
and that uh you know  
eventually we're going to be way short on the number we need because   they won't let them hire any new ones  
and   they keep leaving  
yeah  
they figure what a heyday huh  
it really is  
well there's someone at the door  
so i guess i'll have to go see what my dog is barking about  
but it was nice talking to you  
well thanks  
same for you  
bye  
well i think it does um especially because i just moved to massachusetts and uh they're having real problems because they have so many uh police layoffs  
and uh personally i don't live in a real bad section of town  
but uh just because of the general area i live in the insurance rates are real high on your car  
and there's a lot of crime within a few miles of me  
how about you  
yeah  
i uh  
yeah  
i recently moved here  
and when i was looking for a job there was a lot of openings right in the in the worst areas of town  
and uh my husband was was  
what he his concerns were  
well not that i think you'll get involved in anything but it just be an innocent bystander just to be in that location  
and i thought how sad it was that   just to be in a wrong location at the wrong time  
and and a lot of kids you know are caught that way  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that   exactly what happened down here  
uh_huh  
i know they asked in the topic for ideas on how to control crime  
and it doesn't seem like anything is working  
but in in on the other hand they have to be because the jails are full  
we can't at least in this area you know they don't have any room to put anybody  
so a lot of people just get out you know back on the streets because there's no they can't keep that many people in the buildings they have  
uh_huh  
i know it  
they have all sorts of of rights that you know are questionable  
maybe they gave up that right when they committed the crimes  
that's true  
maybe the punishment should be more severe  
i know it  
yeah  
exactly  
because they get involved in things so young that they don't really   realize what they're involved in  
and uh some people [prey] on that you know  
they'll take uh kids who don't really realize the seriousness even at fifteen   and uh get them involved in things because uh  
well i don't know  
i was watching on a movie on t v  
i don't know how true those can be  
but you know they one guy got all sorts of kids under eighteen to do it by telling them you know you won't have a record because you're under eighteen  
they'd steal cars and everything  
so i guess if they had   more of a deterrent if they had more severe punishments it might be  
but the courts are so [backlogged] right now it takes forever just to go to trial  
i think it would concern me even more if i had children which i don't  
but if i had children i wouldn't know where to raise them   to protect them  
uh_huh  
it's true  
they uh and they they talk about too the gangs spreading you know  
like everybody thinks of them only in l a and new york  
but they spread out to cover more area  
and i don't know if if gangs occur much down in texas do they  
yeah  
the same in some of the areas around here  
but i've never had any personal you know i never met anybody that i knew had anything to do with it   or seen anybody  
but uh that's a scary thing too because at that age kids want so much to belong to a group  
and i think that a lot of people that sort of control them control what they're doing are older you know business you know trying to control whatever you know  
uh_huh  
it's true  
and the weapons my god the weapons that people have are  
some people are seemed to be armed better than the military or the same as the military  
i don't know where they get them  
uh_huh  
that's the other thing uh  
is it's hard to even  
i can't even think of what the benefits of the job would really be  
especially if you're an inner city you know you can't really feel like you're putting much of a dent in what's going on  
and you're putting your life on your on the line everyday  
i  
uh  
yeah  
i just read an article yesterday um where this what used to be a nice town in this area they had a lot of budget cutbacks  
massachusetts is broke right now  
and a lot of the towns are declaring bankruptcy  
and they had to cut twenty guys from their forces  
and the crime wave rate went up almost instantly because it was so well publicized that everybody in the area knew that town wouldn't be patrolled as well  
and so   it's like  
this is a depressing conversation though  
okay  
i hope things look up  
bye bye  
[jeri]  
we're supposed to discuss crime in the united states and what can be done with it  
they're usually pretty broad anyway  
where do you live  
okay  
so that's a  
i'm in richardson  
so   when i heard the topic i was thinking of the thing down at uh [maceo] high school   in dallas  
it is you know  
no  
mine are already in college now  
so   i don't have to  
at least when they were in high school it was beginning but not like the [rampages]  
that's true  
yeah  
well i just i just don't understand how of course in my little world how guns could be so available  
oh my heavens  
well maybe that's the answer to crime is getting more prosecution  
you know because i don't  
now i somehow i feel we're living in an impartial society as far as people seeing something happen you know across the street or seeing someone get mugged or unfortunately raped  
and people don't do anything  
a woman was raped in richardson i read in the paper oh about a two weeks ago now  
and all the neighbors said they heard her yelling for help  
but nobody nobody did anything  
you know i mean they heard someone calling for help  
nobody even called the police to say you know i hear a strange screaming  
i'm afraid you know if you  
i don't blame people with today's society about going out to help themselves  
yeah  
i just you know  
it's it's really frightening that we're not we're trying to live in our own little [cocoons]  
and probably one of the best things we could do for crime is to participate ourselves in its prevention  
yes  
yeah  
well you know the call for help is what scares me now because it it just  
i don't know  
people just don't  
i don't know  
i can't say they don't care because people just have to care about another person  
but it's that not getting involved that impersonal society i think we live in today  
yeah  
let me ask you  
getting back to your son's football practice because it really sort of [astonished] me that police aren't doing  
he didn't have a license for the gun correct  
uh_huh  
yes  
that's a rather rather broad topic  
yeah  
uh we live in plano  
uh and where you are  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that is so frightening  
uh do you have children in school  
yeah  
well i have  
my oldest is his first year in high school  
so we have all this to to look forward to  
and it is really frightening uh to think that you can't even send them to school in safety  
i mean certainly you know you can't just turn them loose in the middle of dallas  
but you know when you can't even send them on their normal activities in safety it it's really frightening  
and uh i really you know  
they're coming down on the principal  
but i really don't know what they can do  
i mean it's just in so much of society with the violence  
and the kids having access to weapons and drugs  
and i i really don't know what what can be done  
well i don't either  
but apparently they just really are  
uh i mean to me in plano you would think that would be about you know about as innocent as you could get for for being in a a large area  
but you know my son comes home and tells me that you know he hears kids talk about having guns  
and uh someone came to his football practice about two weeks ago with a gun  
and i mean it just scared me to death  
and you know they called the police  
and and nothing happened  
but my goodness you know it it could have easily  
maybe so  
yeah  
oh no  
i just can't imagine that  
right  
right  
well i can see you know especially if you heard screams from a house or something not going over there maybe because you know it could be dangerous  
but certainly i can't understand not calling the police  
i  
right  
well i i think you're right there  
i guess people just kind of keep their noses pointed in their own business  
but i think that's real dangerous  
and uh i don't know  
i try to tell my kids just just kind of be aware of what's around them you know  
and if you see a situation that looks like it could be trouble just get out of it or call for help whichever  
but uh  
yeah  
well maybe this thing with with the child at school maybe that will make people think a bit more and you know take some steps to to correct it  
i don't know  
it's it really is is frightening  
i uh  
i don't know  
i mean i don't know the details  
this was not a child that was on the team  
it was someone that uh you know just kind of showed up at the field  
uh it was a a student age person  
but i'm not even  
we're supposed to talk about crime in the city  
and uh seems like all big cities have plenty of that nowadays doesn't it  
well it is  
but our crimes up here uh as i think it must be in most cities now  
but uh i was listening to the news the other day  
and they said they thought a lot of it the reason it was up so was because of the uh so many people are without work nowadays  
economy's so bad  
that's a good point  
that's just what they quoted over the news  
i don't know if i believe that or not  
but it it does seem up  
and  
what kind  
well we got a i think we got a pretty good newspaper  
uh we have two the morning news and the uh times herald  
morning news seems to have the largest circulation  
i think it's a pretty good  
it's a locally owned paper  
the herald is owned i think by the times out of uh l a or somewhere  
but  
well they don't  
no  
not really uh  
they don't play it up i don't think  
uh but there there is too much of it you know uh   too many homes broken into  
we had our our fact about uh  
last year sometime our home was broken into  
we  
yeah  
we uh uh  
i didn't think ours ever would be [burgled] into [burgled]  
but so many in our neighborhood had been  
and uh because we live on a corner   and back up to a real uh highly traveled main street  
but uh we were so uh  
sort of yeah  
and i never did get a security system  
but since that happened i certainly have  
it's uh uh i guess excuse me just a standard uh with the uh all the doors and the uh [infrared] thing you know motion detector  
pretty standard  
yes  
yes  
it's monitored and all that  
and  
i think uh the thing that makes a lot of noise would would [suffice]  
i really do  
but uh this deal that was part of it for you know three years or so   to pay the unit off or whatever  
and uh but it uh  
the monitoring is not that bad though  
because uh uh we've goofed it up you know  
several times you'll hit the wrong key not intentionally or something  
and and they call back pretty quickly  
so i guess it's you know i think it's all right  
but i  
to answer your question i think uh   uh i think uh that is a pretty good deterrent in itself  
whether it  
uh_huh  
well it's got a back up system that doesn't work supposedly uh that if it's cut supposedly it [notifies] them anyway supposedly  
who knows you know  
but that's a selling point  
and i think they're probably i think it probably does these things or supposedly pretty good  
boy they sure advertise them you know so many of them nowadays  
but uh well don't don't you all have a pretty high crime rate up there  
i'm not saying it's any higher than anybody else's  
down here we seem to  
or or not here  
but the statistics seem to say that  
i don't know  
is that right  
i would gather probably from drugs  
and i think that's the reason it's so high everywhere  
but i don't think there's anyplace  
used to  
years ago you thought well these little small cities and all wouldn't have that problem  
but they do  
we've had relatives that their children were just as involved in it uh as anyone you know  
that's a good question  
i don't know  
i don't know what the solution is  
i really don't  
yeah  
yep  

and nothing seems to change  
and uh i'm not sure that anything will because these if something could happen to make these people not want to buy it  
uh but they want to buy it  
so  
supply and demand  
long as somebody wants to buy it somebody going to provide it for them  
so i don't know i don't got you know i don't know what the solution is  
i really don't  
i don't think anyone does in fact  
uh_huh  
well uh i  
that's  
sure  
uh i i think it's  
statistics obviously vary greatly  
i always thought of dallas as being a fairly safe place  
do you really believe that  
i mean it it's been up every year for many years  
and the economy hasn't been   this bad for so long has it  
yeah  
what kind of newspaper do you get down there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
do they do they play up the local crime [angles]  
or or do they  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
so this is a topic of personal interest  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so so you saw this happening in your neighborhood  
and you figured it wouldn't happen to you  
yeah  
what kind of system do you have  
uh_huh  
is   is this is this one with some company that that services you and   takes your calls and all that stuff  
yeah  
well is that a necessary feature to have somebody you know at the other end of the line  
or is it enough just to have a thing that makes loud noise  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so you got a sign up there that says you got this alarm system  
and what if a burglar comes along and cuts your phone line  
how does it do that  
uh_huh  
sure  
well yeah uh  
i i think it's the murder capital of the country now  
yes  
absolutely  
yeah  
yeah  
so what's the solution  
and all these politicians make make hay over you know   being [anticrime]  
but   they haven't seemed to have changed anything  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
what  
all right  
i've never done it before  
so i guess that's all i have to do right  
i've been called several times  
and i push in pushed in my number  
they kept saying you have the invalid code  
and then i found out that my new phone wasn't working right  
oh so this is the first time i've even done it  
i wonder how long it's going to be on for  
oh no  
i mean this whole thing like for two months or something  
do you know  
yeah  
okay  
well back to crime  
i guess we're supposed to talk about that  
they say what aspect are you worried about  
well i think at this point i for one am worried about every aspect  
i think the drive by shootings are getting to be so common that's really a something you got to protect yourself from  
uh_huh  
golly  
i know  
have they done that in garland  
now um  
right  
well we had a vice principal shot at here   last year on the you know on the school grounds after school  
and the one boy killed himself a few years ago in the in a grade school  
so   you know these kids don't have any trouble getting a hold of guns in any   in any neighborhood doesn't seem like  
so yeah  
it's kind of scary to think you send your child to school  
and you wonder if he's going to get shot  
i mean we didn't have to worry about that before  
what next  
right  
and you know we can't really depend on the police to solve all this  
they just can't do it  
i think it goes all the way back to the break up of the family   to a certain extent  
and uh and how we going to bring that back together  
uh_huh  
right  
and  
i think so  
and and then there's a drop in uh the training of morals really you know  
these some of these young kids you read about just doesn't bother them to kill someone at all  
i think   i think years past maybe our criminals had a little more morals you know   wouldn't kill somebody in cold blood  
i think it was just rare  
i really do  
my mother well she's like seventy four now  
she when she was a young girl she had a beautiful beautiful cousin that lived in california  
and she was dating this [millionaire's] son  
and he wanted to marry her  
and she wouldn't marry him  
and so he drove out in the country one day and shot them both  
and uh  
no  
i'm the one  
yeah  
that must have been at least fifty years ago or more  
but   the point of the story is that that was so unbelievable a thing in those days that it was in all the papers all over the country for weeks  
but now you know you wouldn't probably read about it here in texas  
it's just you know another killing  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
lots of their picture and life story and everything  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i know how we and straighten up all these twisted people before they do something terrible  
so uh that story i just told you about my mother's beautiful cousin well the same thing happened here in arlington when was it i think it was oh it was almost a year ago in december to a girl that my daughter had graduated from high school with  
yeah  
i think it was on a hard copy  
she was a real attractive blond girl in in her freshman year of college  
and some boy she tried to get rid of he was like in his twenties  
remember that  
right  
right  
that's uh  
my daughter graduated with her from arlington high school  
yeah  
can you believe it  
that's just uh  
taco [bueno]  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah uh uh  
isn't that weird  
i know  
and uh the police are not going to do anything until they they've committed some sort of a crime  
you know he was just begging her on the phone  
that's not doing anything  
and there are times i think gee i should give my kids  
i guess so  
oh really  
oh  
yeah  
i think five minutes is the max  
oh i don't know  
right  
especially uh you since you're in the same metroplex  
you know there's so much going on here  
well that and in the schools too   starting to put metal detectors in  
and  
no  
i  
not that i'm aware of  
i just heard you know last week at that one school they started putting them in because there was that one shooting  
so um  
is that right  
uh_huh  
not at all   yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i know  
it's it's it's getting  
it's been out of hand i think for a while  
and it just continues to get worse  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that's  
i  
i agree  
i think that's where it stems from is that and um you know you've got a lot of a lot more women that are working nowadays   that aren't home with the children  
and that may impact it as well  
right  
right  
yeah  
they don't think twice about it  
yeah  
either that or i don't know if it happened and it wasn't as highly publicized as it is now or what the what the  
uh_huh  
you're kidding  
himself and her  
oh wow  
i bet  
oh i know  
well they were  
i was watching some show the other day  
and they were talking about uh mass murderers  
and they brought up what happened in killeen here recently  
and   they were saying you know that these guys want attention and that when it happens they're glorified because all the newspaper it's on   all the newspapers   and t v and everything  
right  
and then you get to their life story  
oh they came from a broken family  
oh this person had mental problems  
oh duh duh duh   you know  
yeah  
is that right  
uh_huh  
uh i remember seeing that  
i saw that on hard copy  
yes  
is that right  
i'm trying to remember  
he um had her in the car in front of a taco or something  
and he just shot them   himself and her  
i remember seeing that  
yeah  
there's just too many crazy people out there these days  
yeah  
uh i guess it's uh  
watching the the t v today there had a lot of stuff on on uh crime  
in our state right now uh recently they've had a lot of uh uh the rapists uh murder type uh killers going around  
and   well i i  
they've caught them  
and they they're in there  
well yeah  
wisconsin uh and milwaukee area you know  
yeah  
so that's  
well i i live right on the border of minnesota and wisconsin  
so i kind of get both both news  
and i know in minnesota uh they had uh the one that just uh got out and went after a uh college student and raped   and killed her  
and they are not too happy about that now i guess  
so  
there  
yeah  
uh that's hard to say for sure  
i uh sometimes i wonder if these people aren't don't it just for the publicity  
and   they they get their names in the in the paper  
and they become big celebrities  
but  
well uh i know one i i think texas has the death penalty right  
yeah  
no  
no  
see i i  
yeah  
well it's it's it's not going to prevent any people from doing it  
but   the person that's caught he'll never do it again if he gets the death penalty  
and that's  
and there are a lot of [repeaters] uh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
well some i'm just wondering a lot of times they will put uh people lesser crimes in uh with uh people that did more severe crimes  
than they maybe they just tend to learn from these people  
and they and when they get back out they just go into worse crimes  
maybe they should try and separate them a little bit more uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well uh i don't know with with my limited uh psychology background i do have i don't i don't even feel that prisons and stuff are are the answer  
if you want to stop the crime i think you've got to get uh the people when they are kids  
a lot of this probably just starts with from the from the homes also from the the the media the t v the uh  
all these uh gory movies on there becomes uh just a natural fact of life  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well a lot of the european countries uh they tend to [sensor]  
well they probably won't [sensor] so much the sexual stuff as much as the violent  
and they have a lot less crime  
some of some of those european countries are are you can leave your your uh doors open and and and be safe  
uh even uh i think new [zealand] is one of one of the places uh that  
oh gracious  
uh_huh  
wasn't it your state that had the uh guy that committed all those murders  
there was that uh  
yeah  
yeah  
that was really on the national news a lot  
we heard a lot about that in texas  
oh  
well i can imagine  
it seems like the violent crimes are increasing a lot to me  
i i don't know  
i don't know if [statistically] they are  
but it seems like you sure hear a maybe you just hear a lot more about them on the news  
i don't know  
you wonder about that sometimes  
uh_huh  
that's kind of scary  
i i wish there was some way that we could change the news media so they didn't feature these way out stories  
maybe it wouldn't give other people ideas  
yes  
we do  
do you have it up there  
i see  
do you think that's a deterrent  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i guess that's another thing that to me is a a real problem  
and i know we have got so many people in our prison system now at least here in texas  
i mean they are really in a crisis  
there has been times they have had to just close off the prisons and leave them in county jails or whatever because there just wasn't enough room for all of them  
and a lot of them they put out on parole  
and then some of the ones that they put out early you know do repeat offenses  
and   the crime rate is the worst than ever before  
i think that could be true too  
i think the whole parole thing you know if somebody is convicted of second degree murder or something gets fifteen years well they are out in six or seven you know [outbound] on the streets again  
and to me that's really scary  
some of these crimes that they commit you know seems like the punishment is not really equal to the crime  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they think it's okay thing to do  
yeah  
i think that's a very good point  
you know i  
there's a lot more working mothers a lot more kids in day care centers all that kind of thing  
[morality] is being taught more by the schools a lot of times than in the home anymore  
and  
uh_huh  
huh  
well i'm in a i'm in an urban area  
i'm in dallas  
and we're finding that crime is going up very quickly and has become a major problem uh even a more major problem  
uh in dallas some of the major problems uh  
drugs seems to be related to quite a bit of the crime we have now  
there is a lot of theft a lot of assault dealing with uh people trying to get money for drugs  
and uh i think that's a national problem though  
it's not unique  
yes  
uh_huh  
well now we're pretty close to the golden triangle aren't you  
right  
research triangle   and all of that  
and uh i'm sure you have a lot of students there uh and a lot of [researchers]  
so you you may have a you know perhaps a little better economic climate  
but in all your cities now it seems like there is a a crowd that's really effected by this bill  
really  
really  
um well here uh i'm not sure how many dallas has had  
i've uh  
houston is averaging about two a week or three or four  
i i don't know  
a a number every week  
uh dallas is having quite a few  
seems like most of ours are occurring in late at night or or like i say drug related  
uh i guess the other thing was that are causing a lot of the crime now is the decrease in values  
seems like a a lot of people don't hold human life quite as high as perhaps they used to  
uh i  
the economy is lousy  
uh_huh  
boy that really that really takes someone who is bold to do that  
well now do you find that security is very good in in a in a town home  
uh_huh  
well that  
i see  
yeah  
well i think you hit on one point there is you know each other  
i'm i'm in a neighborhood where we try to keep up with everything  
uh i am oh about three blocks off a major road and uh a couple of blocks off another road that kind of runs  
i guess you would say the neighborhood road it runs between the high school and the the commercial districts  
and uh i'm over the northeast part of dallas  
it's a in a nice neighborhood  
the houses here uh before the recession were running two hundred thousand or so  
and course everything's down ten to twenty percent now  
but we have uh  
one one thing that effects us is we have apartments that are probably about a half mile away  
and now the economy is bad  
they have trouble keeping those full  
so they've dropped the uh  
they're not nearly as selective as they used to be  
and course that's kind of like a cancer in an apartment complex  
you start letting that happen and they go down  
and then before you know it you have drugs and a lot of other things  
so uh i'm sure that aggravates it also  
but unemployment now in dallas or in texas is up around six point  
okay  
what do you feel are some of the main problems  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it it it's   pretty bad here too  
we've had a lot of murders drug related and stuff   in durham which is right next to raleigh  
yeah  
that that  
durham raleigh and chapel hill is the triangle  
right  
yeah  
it's it's really it's  
and i've seen in more in durham than i have in raleigh or or   or chapel hill  
chapel hill is kind of a a [ritzy] city or whatever  
i mean it's kind of  
i'm i'm sure there is problems with it  
but it has a pretty low crime rate compare compared to to durham has probably got the worst  
they've had like forty eight murders since the beginning of the year  
and over half of it has been drug related  
yeah  
yeah  
well that  
and the and the economy is so bad  
and   and so many people have been laid off and stuff  
they've done special stories on the news local news here  
we had a lot of bank robberies and different lot of break ins and stuff  
i know like a week or so ago  
i live in a in a town house which is you know  
it's a pretty nice neighborhood  
and this lady was going to work  
she came home and everything in her house was total gone light fixtures everything  
and nobody thought any different  
they just thought she was moving  
it was a moving man pulled right up to her house broke in and stole everything she owned  
well yeah  
it's it's it's pretty bad  
uh i would say so for the majority in in our in my little section of the neighborhood because there is always somebody at home  
and we all know one another  
and and on our one little section of the street we all know one another and know that we're not moving and different things like that  
it's  
i i'm i'm probably the one of the youngest people that live over here  
most people are are retired  
or or or you know they're they're in their forties or or whatever  
so and i'm in my twenties  
so i i'm i'm out more than they are  
but   they're at home at night  
so i really don't worry about anything  
yeah  
yeah  
see that's the same thing here  
yeah  
yeah  
so i've been concerned about crime lately  
uh it's really scary to listen to the news every night and   to hear about all the problems  
i wondered if you were taking any special precautions in your neighborhood  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no um  
well we moved in when we moved in there there wasn't any outside lights  
and   so we've been trying to install some uh outside lights  
and   we put up a fence in the backyard  
mostly you know not so much thinking that we would deter someone to break in but that our children would be safe   playing in the yard   you know  
and i guess most of the crime that i'm concerned about generally is against my kids  
it's scary to send them off down the street a few houses   to let them go play with someone and   because of what you hear about people getting picked up and   everything  
and   so i have to spend a good deal of time watching them   walk down the street and   say call me before you leave and   come back  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no   that's a good thought  
well we've been real lucky that  
i don't believe there's been you know much trouble in our neighborhood  
but it   but it does seem there that there is a lot more here in plano of uh just bored teenagers  
vandalism  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and they don't uh  
i know my sister in law who lives in our neighborhood   they've had their  
they parked their car out on the street before and it's been spray painted and   a few things like that  
and course you know  
i don't know  
i'm getting scared for kids to get older  
because you don't know if it's someone their teenagers know   who and or is it just random   crime  
but uh we've been real lucky that no one in my family with the anywhere that they live has had been a victim of you know a serious crime  
but uh it's really scary to know that you can live a normal life and try to be a good citizen   but it doesn't mean you'll be safe  
and   but i guess i take a lot of uh little bit of uh safety in knowing that a lot of the crimes that they report are like drug related or   uh things that  
places usually that i wouldn't be going   and things i usually wouldn't be involved in  
and uh there's not so much of it completely innocent   victims compared to  
but it is scary  
were you   raised in this area  
uh_huh  
so has it been getting worse that you noticed or   about the same  
um  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
take a lot of chances  
well i noticed that uh that uh when  
we we moved here from houston   not too long ago  
and so of course we were interested in schools  
and uh but the schools in houston all have big tall fences around them  
and they're not really very safe  
and so it's been interesting to come to the plano area where the schools don't have fences at all   around them  
and it's just a whole different idea that that at least the people here feel that their kids are pretty safe at school  
and in houston that there was the mentality that they weren't safe at school  
and so that's been something that's been good for the you know in this area that you feel like uh you know there's not going to be too many [knifings] or shootings   at school today  
and i guess  
i don't know how people live with that   every day  
pretty scary  
but anyway well i guess i won't take up more of your  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i i think we have a neighborhood watch  
i think  
i'm not real  
we don't get real involved  
we're never home  
so  
uh uh well i know they were going to start one  
but uh i haven't heard any more since  
so i don't really know  
but as far as personally doing something no  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
oh i'm sure it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um   i would too if i had kids  
we don't have any  
we did install a a a uh motion detector light back in our driveway  
and that was mainly it was so when we pulled up the light would come on  
but also we have a boat back there  
and we have neighborhood kids that like to get into [mischief]  
so  
we thought with that light you know it would maybe keep them from doing something to the boat  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's  
what it is  
we live in   coppell  
and and that's pretty much what it is is   you know kids that are bored like you say  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know it   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
really is  
yeah  
i'm originally from chicago but i've been in this area in the lewisville area for uh let's see about twenty three years  
oh   definitely  
in the last few years i think  
and uh like i say  
now i don't think necessarily in this area here but   just dallas in general  
i don't know  
i think back of when i was uh younger and in my party days some of the things i did you know i wouldn't be caught dead like being out that late at night     in the dark parking lot  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
i don't either  
yeah um  
well got any problems on mockingbird with crime  
or is that a crime free zone there  
i'm afraid you're right  
oh my  
oh boy  
by your house  
oh my goodness  
aye aye aye   oh my  
that's that's got to be a frightening way to   spend an evening  
oh boy  
unfortunately   yes  
yes  
i think uh you know as any city grows up uh you get the hoods and the [riffraff] and   everybody else   in there  
and i think  
uh you know fortunately the sirens and everything we hear are over on spring creek  
but uh we've been we've lived here sixteen years  
and   now you you know you can tell the change for sure  
yes  
well with all the uh central expressway uh   with all the stores and the uh restaurants and the   uh convenience stores and all that kind of stuff it's just prime [pickings] for people driving by  
you know and  
that's that couldn't be too far from you neither  
okay  
oh yes  
okay  
i don't know uh how a few bucks can be worth shooting somebody  
but  
it's kind of kind of stupid isn't it  
but i guess when people do those things they don't really give a thought of the consequences at the time  
it's looks like   easy [pickings]  
and away you go right  
i think you're right uh although i think that may be an excuse for people too  
right  
right  
right  
just like the old alcohol idea  
and   i think people uh i think when you have haves and have nots you're always going to find people that are too lazy to figure a way to earn money and find it's easier if you can get a gun to go out and hold something up   than it is to figure out a way to [legitimately] earn the money  
oh boy  
where do you work  
uh yes  
i think i do  
that uh is that [amelia] [earhart] school there  
okay  
that's a pretty rough area there isn't it  
oh my goodness  
huh  
definitely that area that that's big time  
big time there sure is  
i don't think i'd go to work without a [bulletproof] [vest] on myself  

that's the worst neighborhood in the whole area  
no  
i don't think there is any such thing   as a crime free zone any longer  
uh one evening i decided to retire early and heard sirens and noises and thought oh well something's happens on mockingbird and then heard [yells] and screams  
and the next thing i know there are policemen all around my house  
and they had stopped a uh a stolen car   and caught one of the men in the hedge  
and then the other one was on the roof in the back  
on my house  
so i'm very much aware of uh crime in the cities and the and the concern about it  
it was  
i uh i kept hearing noises  
and so i i knew that i was not going to sleep until i got up and went out and checked the garage  
so i got a my gun and walked to the you know through the house into the garage  
there was no one there  
but i wanted to be sure  
is plano beginning to experience the the kinds of things that are more common in the metropolitan you know in the   urban area  
that's   too bad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i was thinking if you've been there that long you've seen plano grow   from what was really a a small town to a city  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i was appalled to read the other day about the uh uh shooting on the tollway  
uh well it's farther west of me  
i live over near white rock lake  
but uh  
uh it was really frightening to   think that uh it's not even safe to drive onto the tollway   or for those people in the [tollbooth]  
uh i never thought about someone robbing those  
but apparently they do  
yeah  
it just doesn't seem possible does it  
uh_huh  
no  
yeah  
and i think the drugs play a tremendous part in uh the theft and the the violence that we see  
it it is convenient isn't it  
i didn't know what i was doing  
that kind  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yes  
and i work in south dallas for the dallas school system  
and uh uh  
uh do you know where oakland and [hatcher] are  
uh no  
this is over near lincoln high school   uh just not far off south central expressway  
it is a pretty rough area  
we're over by fair park  
and uh you know you watch the people  
there are marvelous b m w and mercedes and cadillacs and everything parked all up and down the street outside these awful [taverns]  
and the kids see that  
and uh they know that they can earn several hundred dollars in a day where uh you know running for uh drug dealers if  
uh_huh  
it surely is  
well i'm careful  
yeah  
it's uh a little scary sometimes  
and uh i manage the  
so what are your feelings on the topic today as far as crime in america today  
yeah  
no  
i have to i have to agree with you  
i had occasion a couple years ago to hear the chief of police of richardson texas speak  
and you know it's a shame a a criminal today not a murderer but a guy that breaks in houses and [steals] things and you know he does this and he does this for a couple of years [hides] all the stash and works off of it  
and then when he gets caught he'll be sentenced to something like five to seven years  
but he gets five days credit for every day he serves  
i mean it's like a bonus to go to jail  
so   subsequently a five year sentence means he's going to be out in uh a year on probation  
i mean what he does the chief said is he just merely goes back to his his stash where he has it hidden and continues to operate  
and uh when he uses up all that and spends all that money then he uh starts robbing houses again or whatever and gets caught again and goes through the same thing  
now see that's a you talk about that's a crime right there  
well we don't either in texas  
well it it certainly is  
and uh that would be a huge concern  
you know i don't think the general public really realizes this as far as what goes on with our criminal system our [judiciary] system and everything else  
it's just uh it's terrible the way it is right now  
yeah  
as far as steps to reduce crime if it's uh crimes like we're just been discussing obviously we we need more prisons and more [corrective] facilities to put these people in   to uh take them off the streets  
but i don't think that's going to happen because just like you said  
and our state's a good example  
your state's a good example  
and it's just not going to happen  
as far as the murderers and people that commit rape and things like that i'm not sure what's right  
but i know it  
it's not right to put them in there and let them live for years and years and [leers] years before you do execute them or whatever because it's has to be very costly to feed a prisoner and to   clothe him  
and you know to i'm sure he gets to watch a lot of t v  
and i'm sure they have uh exercise facilities and movies  
and and everything else you know they can have a good time in  
no  
it really isn't  
a big  
it's a big problem  
and hopefully something will come out of it  
so i don't know  
i'm uh   i'm pretty much of a hard person  
uh i believe in capital punishment  
i mean you know a person rapes a kid or shoots someone or kills someone  
i mean you know if it's just [downright] outright  
oh  
you bet  
i mean that's the only way to  
oh yeah  
and you spend thousands hundreds of thousands of dollars to uh take care of them and all you know  
it's just unbelievable  
can you really  
god  
oh i know  
meanwhile you're living in a country club situation perhaps you know  
yes  
the drug problem that's another one  
well i think some of the blame can be placed on plea bargaining and people getting less time and not serving any of the or a lot less of the   time than they're   given by the court system  
but i don't know  
with the economy the way it is i think crime can't do much but go up  
right  
well there was an article in our paper sunday that the average person sentenced to seven to ten years in north carolina the average serves six weeks  
well see we don't have any room in our prisons  
so  
they they shuttle them in and shuttle them out  
and they get them get them early parole in order to make rooms for the new criminals who stay there for their six weeks  
and then they're they're paroled uh to make room for the newest criminals  
and it just it it's just really absurd  
i think the general public is so overwhelmed by things right now so many different things coming in so many different directions that they've just decided to become [apathetic] towards it all because they realize there's  
or they think that there's absolutely nothing they can do about it  
yeah  
yeah  
well i don't know what the answer is  
but i know that asking the question over and over and over again isn't working  
so  
uh  
i hope so  
oh i definitely believe in capital   punishment  
it's when they it's when they're in on death row for nineteen years that i don't i'm kind of curious about  
yeah  
you can appeal now in north carolina for almost a period of twenty years  
yeah  
you can just keep going around and around and around the merry go round until you  
i think the i think it's uh the average is eight to ten years to get in to the north carolina supreme court  
and then uh after that it goes to the supreme court of the united states  
and that usually takes another four to six years  
so it's  
they're hoping  
i guess they're what they're they're trying to [prolong] their lives and hoping people will forget what they did  
but it's just a  
we have a serious problem  
we have so many problems in this state now  
and and the the thing is the the thing  
the fundamental problem is the is  
how do you feel about crime in the city  
you say you're from atlanta  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i mean do you do you find crime in atlanta really  
i live in atlanta also  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what do you think can be done about the crime in the city  
uh_huh  
i probably agree with that  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's probably true  
um so um well do you think [atlanta's] as bad as most other cities  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't think it's as bad as l a either  
we i don't think we have as much of the gang problem as a lot of the other cities have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know  
i came to the conclusion also that you know just if you are walking in a downtown area you know where there's a lot of crime a lot of that's going to just just keeping your senses about you and and trying not to look like a victim you know  
you know walk you know walk with you know with   just walk in a confidently  
and you know don't don't be   looking around like you've never been there before   and you have no idea where you are  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
have you have you ever have you ever been mugged in atlanta  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've been pretty lucky about getting mugged  
um   yeah  
i think i've only actually seen like one you know one actual robbery with a gun  
and that's been about the only you know real violent crime where you know potentially violent crime that i've seen in atlanta  
and that was just a guy running out of a store that he just robbed  
oh really  
oh where was where where was that  
was that downtown  
or  
really  
metropolitan  
yeah  
yeah  
i've actually i've known known some people that have had their cars stolen  
uh and uh and you know about half the time they seem to the a p d seems to recover them you know   in various states of [disrepair]   up on blocks  
my friend had a v w rabbit  
and when he when he got it back his um [dashboard] was sitting in the front seat  
uh_huh  
well you're probably [luckier] than  
uh_huh  
um so like does insurance pay for the body damage  
or   was that all there was body  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so how do you know this much about um stealing cars  

right  
i i i actually i live in the city  
and uh i guess it is a concern of mine uh you know for my own safety  
well that's right  
uh   uh i think it is bad in certain areas  
however i think the area that i live in it's not uh the crime level is not as high as it is in other areas of the of the city  
i think it seems that there's certain areas where uh the crime is focused   uh  
well i think it's what's been happening over the last several years it seems they've been [beefing] up the police patrols trying to put put more guys more cops higher [visibility]  
and uh   they've had some impact but not a tremendous amount  
and probably um they need to try to increase community involvement that sort of thing i think  
yeah  
you know particularly in some of the housing projects uh you know that's that tends to be where a lot of that crime is focused  
and they've got to do more than just having having cops there  
they've got to kind of change the way people think about it  
um well i've been to  
i'd say it's it's probably in the top top ten in terms of crime  
um it's nowhere near as bad as new york city   for example  
probably not not as bad as detroit  
no  
yeah  
that seems to be true  
um yeah  
if you've ever been to like new york city  
and   you can just you can just as you walk through the street on a given evening you can see crimes being committed  
it's that obvious  
yeah  
that's true  
with a big stick  
or  
right  
sure  
right  
don't don't walk down a an alley  
or don't get  
just try to keep yourself out of a bad situation  
but yeah  
there are times when you can't avoid all that  
and and then you're kind of on your own  
uh no  
the only thing i've ever had was i've had my wallet [lifted]  
but that was in a more of a a setting where there was a number of people around  
and i kind of got  
i was much younger at the time  
and kind of a couple of people they just took it from me without me knowing really   and kind of passed it off so i didn't know who had it  
i've had that happen  
but that's that's about it  
oh yeah  
um  
really  
well i've had my  
uh_huh  
i've had my car stolen  
so maybe that counts  
yeah  
oh no  
that was in the northern um up near [cumberland] mall area  
it's actually cobb county  
but it is atlanta  
and uh there's a lot of car [thefts] in that area  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
mine was just it had been wrecked and some superficial type damage  
but they didn't they didn't strip it  
so i got it back  
yeah  
than most  
right  
it was about three grand to put everything together  
they cracked the steering column of course to steal the car  
yeah  
you got to you crack the steering column  
and you pull the  
there's a pin in there that you can pull on these g m cars  
and you can start it up basically pretty easily  
well after i found mine i had to i had this  
do you think that there's any way that uh  
or do you think there's too much crime now  
i mean i guess   any crime is too much  
but   it's out of control  
really  
i would not of okay i would not have [guessed] that in seattle  
yeah  
you know  
yeah  
i wonder i mean i wonder what what really is the answer  
i mean it seems like our our the prison systems we can't seem to decide whether or not it's a reform system or penal system  
yeah  
but but the problem is is that we we only have but so much room  
and we we try to put aside in the warehouse  
and all we do is just [displace] other people which come back into society and   commit crimes  
and  
so it's uh  
i get the feeling that a lot of people have  
i'm not convinced that i have  
uh see i mean my mom taught english as a second language  
and and she was dealing mostly with people that were were in on drug crimes  
and uh  
yes  
in a   in a maximum security prison down in central virginia  
and the problem she had was not with the inmates at all  
the the people that she had the most problems with were the people that ran the prison  
i mean   it was it was i mean  
they they put her i mean  
i didn't obviously i didn't see the classroom uh and hopefully never will  
but uh   they they put her at the end of a hallway  
there were no other classes going on at the time  
and they refused to let her wear a body a body alarm   which  
and  
i don't know exactly what that is  
but i just assume it was something that she could hit immediately and and really annoy a lot of people  
but uh you know  
no  
she didn't  
she didn't  
she she felt fine for the first year when she had her first set of inmates  
and then later on the uh the administration kept getting worse  
and uh she got a couple of inmates that she wasn't she didn't feel quite as comfortable around  
but well she had decided that it was when we came back to the states she decided that it was too  
she didn't feel that public schools were were safe  
so next thing you know she's teaching in a maximum security prison  
but uh  
yeah  
but but the point that was that it you know  
you said that perhaps uh people have given up the thought that [rehabilitation's] possible  
and and i'm i'm thinking that it's even to the point that the people in that run the system have given up on it  
uh  
but getting i mean well see  
i always have problems because because i can never decide whether or not i'm i'm supposed to be a conservative or or a liberal  
but  
but i keep   i keep thinking that there's got to be some way that that a lot of this is circumstances  
i mean i can't help but wonder if if i grew up without a father on the streets and   with like little or no money wouldn't   wouldn't i be in prison at this point  
i mean i don't know  
we've got [methadone] programs where people who desperately want to get off drugs can't   get onto the program  
i don't i don't remember the the [gentleman's] name  
but the the uh the mayor of baltimore is a is a rhodes scholar  
and what he  
well what he wants to do is take all the money that uh he gets for drug enforcement and use it for uh drug education  
and basically just just attack the problem at the demand side  
stop trying to attack supply because which which to some extent makes sense and to some extent doesn't  
i mean switzerland tried the the grand experiment  
and you know they had this park where they were letting anybody use drugs as long as they stayed in the park  
and  
uh yeah  
yeah  
uh well uh out of control i don't know  
i guess it could be worse  
uh we've uh we've we've got quite a bit of crime in our neighborhood  
uh i live in the university district in seattle near the university of washington  
uh there's uh there's a lot of problems  
i mean there's like a big rise in [homelessness] and more street people  
and uh you know we get cars on our block uh regularly uh uh uh gone through [rifled] through and stuff  
yeah  
yeah  
you figured it was like omaha right  
no  
it's uh it's not [newark]  
but uh yeah  
it's got problems  
yeah  
i think most people regard it as a warehouse   where you put away the people that are so bad that uh you don't want them out in circulation  
yeah  
that's what i hear  
yeah  
i i think you know  
don't you feel like most people have given up on the rehabilitation idea  
yeah  
oh you mean she taught in a prison  
oh  
i see  
uh  
yeah  
the the bureaucracy  
uh  
yeah  
so she didn't feel safe  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well at least it's maximum security right  
uh well i i think the people that run yeah that run the system are the most hardened and probably the most cynical you know  
i mean i uh you know i i talked to a few people who worked in prisons and stuff  
and it's uh  
you can get pretty hardened i'm sure  
yeah  
right  
those are funny labels see  
oh yeah  
oh   oh yeah  
absolutely  
i think uh yeah i think you can blame it on social problems  
sure  
i mean as as you know as poverty has gotten worse as you know education has gotten worse as there's been more single parent families as there's been more [homelessness] there's been more crime  
yeah  
there's not enough   beds and treatment programs rising drug abuse  
and yep  
it's a mess  
is he the guy wants to like [deregulate] heroin or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
well needless to say here in washington d c this is the war zone  
uh d c around here stands for drug capital or death capital  
it's uh it's really bad here  
uh for example the uh local high school uh they've already found two students with [sawed] off shotguns  
and they're starting to uh get these hand held metal detectors so they can inspect the kids every morning when they come to school of all things  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that's how they uh they bind themselves together in groups i guess  
and uh  
now the  
interestingly enough i don't think we have here a a lot of gangs but uh only a couple uh   of not a whole large group of them but uh just a few most of them centered around uh drug territory  
and so they're protecting their economic interests i guess  
and uh nowadays the latest thing i've i've read about in the paper here that they're doing as far as uh crimes involving stealing cars is that instead of stealing uh cars like at night breaking into them or whatever they will pick out a car that they want and wait until you show up  
and then as you get out of the car they just uh step up and uh take the keys off of you and drive the car away and leave you standing in front of your house  
yeah  
that's the uh latest thing  
that way there's no damage to the car or anything  
they just wait for you to show up after they've picked out which one they want  
uh_huh  
right  
just wait for you to drive to your house  
you get out  
and they get in  
off they go with your car  
so it's  
uh i think they call it car [jacking] around here  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's kind of the latest thing  
but every year in the d c area it gets [progressively] worse as far as the number of homicides  
so it's uh it's unfortunate that we feel sometimes even that we have to bring our kids up in this area because we're not from around here  
we're from uh i'm from ohio  
and my wife's from florida  
so  
and we've just come from twenty years in the military and uh which is an entirely different environment  
so this is a whole new thing for for us to to have to put up with  
and it's uh really scary sometimes  
right  
and it's pretty bad when they're using metal detectors in school  
and uh of course the mayor uh of d c is having a real problem uh trying to  
what do you do to to reduce crime in a in a major city like d c where it's a way of life for everybody  
it's uh i would hate to have to [wrestle] with that problem  
i don't know what what the solution is  
uh there's no way they can stop the drugs  
and that's what's causing all the killing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and they see all their friends and neighbors uh  
yeah  
and their friends are driving mercedes  
and so it's actually  
they grow up with that as their way of life  
and uh i think uh to a large extent they don't understand the concept that what they're doing is actually illegal because this is the way they were raised  
right  
exactly  
so maybe it's the law that wrong in their eyes  
and they   they say well it's it's the law that's uh got to be changed instead of their way of life  
so i don't know  
it's  
i'm glad it's not the kind of problem i have to come up with an answer to because it's not   easy  
uh_huh  
right  
they've always been with us  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
so how serious is the   subject of crime in your area  
jeez  
well luckily it hasn't gotten that bad here  
uh san jose actually has a pretty good record in terms of being relatively low on violent crime  
uh but it's on the [uprise] especially in a lot of the uh [outlying] agricultural towns   uh because you end up having a lot of gangs forming uh largely around the hispanic core  
uh it seems to be that uh gang warfare follows very rapidly on the heels of poverty conditions  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's efficient  
they're decided they're completely [unworried] about being identified or anything   of that sort  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
i'd heard that phrase  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there aren't that many   places that are safe from that sort of thing nowadays  
uh_huh  
well uh   there's a couple of things that i've heard  
uh most of them are fairly uh radical in terms   of what you'd have to do  
uh course the the reason that that these kids tend to to turn toward the drugs and everything else seems to be just you know the the the end results of of poverty and and   parents that aren't doing any parenting and everything else  
because i mean you know the parents aren't making a living at anything  
uh  
and they're accidental parents half the time anyway  
it's illegal  
but it's not wrong because all their friends do it  
yeah  
well   i think that the drug thing would actually be relatively easy to solve in terms of of an actual solution to the problem uh  
the the social the other social problems wouldn't wouldn't go away  
uh  
i mean there's there's been a lot of uh  
and i used to think that this whole argument was completely [bogus]  
but then the   more i thought about it the more sense it made is that uh alcohol is as bad a drug as anything else  
uh and prohibition didn't stop it and didn't do anything really   to slow  
uh well i'm not sure how it is in georgia  
but in in pittsburgh the the crime rate really is not very high at the moment  
is that is that true for for atlanta  
yeah  
i  
that's probably not true only for atlanta but for just about anywhere  
well uh the least what from what's on the news uh there are very few like actual robberies reported uh uh of of [residences]  
what's more likely to occur is uh robbery of uh you know knocking over a a small store or a car theft you know it things of that nature  
very few uh assaults  
although on the college campuses uh there are uh cases of you know like people getting machine from a from an automated teller and you know somebody trying to to device a scam for for uh getting the money for them that actually [preys] mostly on foreigners  
but mostly petty things and no nothing nothing really too big  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh a strange case that uh that happened oh it's about about a year ago was someone actually stole a complete automated teller machine  
it was a free standing machine  
and they backed up into it with a truck   and put it on the back and drove away with it  
now there's a crime for you  
yeah  
but uh i guess most of the things that happen around here are are pretty uh [innocuous]  
although uh from what i hear in the news  
and and i i saw an episode of the t v show cops   uh one time that was in pittsburgh  
and uh it it it did surprise me because you know they were doing drug [arrests] and thing and things like that  
but i i don't really think those things happen too often because like i said from what's reported in the news at least it's it's not all that common  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i just to [diverge] a little bit uh i live in an apartment  
right now i'm finishing out my last semester at the university of pittsburgh  
and uh the apartment like would be very easy for just about anyone to break in  
but even so it i mean it's it's still difficult for me to convince my apartment mates to to like lock the doors when they go out you know and things like   that  
uh it would be so easy for someone who is motivated to do so to just you know sit out back take a look at when people are here and when they're not   just come in you know  
there's a t v and a v c r  
and they could uh they could get in pretty easy and and especially uh since there are bedrooms upstairs   and people leave the door open you know while they're upstairs playing music  
it could still happen then  
atlanta is kind of high  
uh it's it's lower than it has been in the past  
uh i guess nineteen ninety is when it start to drop off  
and usually around the christmas season is usually when the crime rate is a little bit higher  
yeah  
uh what kind of crime problem do you usually run into  
any specifics  
um  
right  
well i guess here we run into that sometime  
but i guess a lot of crimes are done with apartment type break ins   that type not much home break ins  
there are some but not not very high  
uh as far as [tellers] and things like that it's not extremely high either  
there were one case where uh this one guy uh was taking women from the teller and and you know making them give him money and stuff and   then at the same time [raping] them all  
so so that's kind of like a double assault there  
really  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
yeah  
there's a crime  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
i don't know  
crime situations here they  
like i say lot of lot of cases is usually just apartments and and break ins and things like that  
and a lot of it is due to drugs   uh drug related you know in in most cases  
it's not like uh it's someone do steal a a or television or v c r or something like that  
it is for drugs you know because you really can't on the street make any money off of it per se you know  
you going to get ten or fifteen bucks for it  
so you really not making a sizeable profit  
so it's not really lucrative to take chances like that you know even though it it does exist  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
but you'd be surprised also how much people watch you that even not uh participating in any type crime  
i guess there was one case  
i was surprised uh  
so happened this person worked at the same place  
i work for georgia tech  
and they work at the same place i did  
but i didn't know that they had been watching me  
because i was getting ready to to go in my car one morning  
and the first thing they said is uh you must don't have to be to work at eight you know  
like shock  
so um how do you feel about the crime in your city  
is it uh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
san jose california  
here you know the real problems are the gangs  
a lot of gang related a lot of murders uh just in general the whole  
we've only been here a couple of years  
uh before that we lived in colorado  
but in comparison to colorado it's real noticeable  
i mean you can just feel i mean i can just sense  
i mean i won't even i won't go to the grocery store at night  
you know  
and it it's that kind of thing  
and uh  
yeah  
we have a neighborhood watch program in the house uh the development that we live in which i think is a great way to reduce uh home theft burglary and things   of that sort  
do you have that where you live  
or  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know uh also i've heard that uh the newest thing is a lot of people are [specializing] in robbing people during the time they're home   like on the weekends  
a high percentage of uh free time  
i think it's like fifty percent of most people's free time is uh spent doing yard work   outdoors  
so they wait while you're out outdoors  
they know the house is [unlocked]  
and then they just slip in   slip in slip out you know  
they know exactly what they're going for  
so i've heard that's really on the rise as far as   uh you know a new type of crime  
yeah  
unfortunately yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i mean  
yeah  
it helps to know your neighbors you know  
they give you  
you're supposed to make lists of uh cars  
like i know a lot of my neighbors right around my development if i see a car that's unfamiliar we we have a list  
is that what you you did in your program where you have a list of license plates  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah well  
uh_huh  
i mean you you hate to be paranoid  
but there are really only so many things you can do  
you can have the house alarm uh   neighborhood watch program you know uh as a woman not go out at night  
uh you can do that which is what i choose to do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's  
uh_huh  
but it's not uh  
if you kill someone in your home as long as they are in your home it's considered self defense though  
it isn't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think if if you had a handgun though in other words it wasn't premeditated you had a handgun it's the middle of the night someone's  
well um minneapolis isn't too bad  
uh i know that there's been some increases in crime lately in terms of murders  
uh that's kind of gone up in scale and and some other things  
uh i personally had a little experience the other day  
uh somebody broke my passenger window and stole a uniform out of my truck  
but actually you know when you look at at minneapolis as compared to where i used to live it's really quite a bit better   uh because i came from florida  
and in orlando there's crime is getting to be a bigger problem than ever  
so  
what part of california are you from  
oh really  
i have a good friend there  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's  
that's really a shame when it has to [constrain] your activities like  
sure  
well uh interestingly enough right before i moved up here  
i'm an [intern]  
and then i go   back down in may  
uh but in orlando before i moved up we had a real problem with it  
uh we've been broken into in my apartment about four times   in like two and a half weeks  
and one of the things that i i helped organize was a neighborhood watch type situation   down there  
uh because they were just  
it's one of those things where the new thing is that they operate in the daylight because   everybody went to work you know  
and then the houses were left [unguarded] uh  
but yeah  
i think given that people are pretty conscientious about it  
that's a good way to to work it with a neighborhood   watch  
oh is that right  
oh  
that's amazing  
yeah  
uh  
yeah  
it almost seems like they're getting quite a bit smarter  
really you know  
yeah  
unfortunately it's starting to really you know look at people's habits and   where they are at particular points of the day  
like one of the guys i work with really laughs when he looks at minneapolis because he's from detroit  
and uh the the crime level there of course is quite a bit quite a bit uh more pronounced uh  
but uh yeah  
i guess  
i think we've got a neighborhood watch program here in minneapolis  
i'm not real sure uh  
pretty much  
yeah  
i was i was basically involved in that in the organization of it  
and then i left right in the middle of it  
i'm not sure   where we went from there  
but  
yeah  
that that whole thing of being alert and kind of noticing your surroundings noticing people who look suspicious   uh activities like that sure  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
one of the frustrating things about that is that you really are limited  
even even if you know that the threat is there   it's against the law to set traps  
it's against the law to do a lot of things you know  
they could basically uh  
when i was getting robbed down in florida i was really considering [electrifying] doors   um things like that like  
they did in miami that time  
that's not always true  
no  
there was a there was a case about two years ago   where a guy knew he was going to get robbed  
and essentially what he had done is set a a a [electrocution] trap   for the burglar in his own home  
the guy came in while he was home  
and sure enough he fell into the trap and was severely burned  
he didn't die  
but he was severely burned  
and he took the guy to court and won a settlement  
yeah  
so that really that makes you think you know  
it's like your hands are very much tied  
i'm ready  
well in atlanta georgia you probably have a lot more crime than we have here in patterson california  
uh this little city is only about eight thousand people  
so  
well in patterson there's  
it's not a problem here  
but like uh i lived in oakland uh until just recently  
and uh oakland california god they've had like uh sixty seven murders so far this year compared to like uh forty at this time last year  
so it's really bad there  
and and it's all related to drugs it seems like  
is that what it's there too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
like i don't know what they can do to make it better unless they just hire more policemen  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i i think that if they would do something to these people that they do catch instead of just [slapping] their little hands  
and you know then maybe those other people would be kind of scared  
and they would not do these bad things you know  
yeah  
i just don't understand our our laws here  
because you know like in other countries man i mean they're really a lot stricter than we are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know when i lived in oakland it was just that uh like i definitely wouldn't go into certain areas of of the city by myself  
and uh and then then again some areas i wouldn't go by myself after dark   you know  
but down here in patterson well like i say it's so small   that you can go anywhere  
but just uh like twenty miles away see in modesto they have uh those gangs and things over there  
and it it's bad  
in sacramento also they have uh drive by shootings it seems like all the time  
so i don't know  
i just i just don't know what what they can do you know  
i know  
yeah  
i mean like even even going to the grocery store  
i know we've had this one lady that was attacked you know  
i mean just you just you just don't know what to do anymore you know  
and some of the times it's happening in the daytime too you know  
so it's not always happening at dark  
so i don't know  
oh could could be  
huh  
yeah  
we  
is is crime a problem there  
like a major problem minor problem or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i've only been here for like uh  
probably just over six months i start i   started school here  
uh i came from a smaller town in in new york  
and the city was fairly big size or not real big  
but we had a problem there  
but here there's just no comparison that much more crime  
uh every night the news is very depressing because it just they run down the list of how many people were shot you know drive by shootings or   whatever  
and it's it it's pretty bad  
they're they're  
it's  
things have basically improved here over the last few years  
they've they've actually taken steps to try to make it better  
but it still it still is a problem  
well that's that seems to be what they were doing  
and it has and they've started stepped up more patrols in certain areas  
and it has   has made some places safer  
but you know it's very difficult  
i mean if you don't have an infinite amount of money to to try to stop the problem although most people wish you could   as it is a it's definitely a problem  
and   you know the more more less that's done about it the more it seems it tends to spread into smaller areas unfortunately  
right  
yeah  
i think i think that uh it's uh seems to be that i don't know some people they they do something you know  
they shoot somebody or whatever  
they go to jail  
sentenced to jail for like thirty years they're out in five  
and they're back on the street  
and then they shoot someone else  
and just a a cycle  
and it seems seems as though the the system doesn't tend to stop them unless something is drastic is done  
yeah  
it's definitely true  
it seems seems as though we try to play humanitarian i think to a little to much  
and maybe some of the people don't deserve the the humanitarian treatment that they get  
but i don't know  
it's a difficult situation i think  
and some something has to be done because i definitely think it's it it really plays reeks [havoc] with your quality of life when you know you can see it's going on around you  
but then when once it finally affects you then then it really starts to bother you  
but it seems i mean  
people have moved like out of the city because they want to get away from the crime  
and so they tend to spread the cities farther and farther out  
but you know it's only a matter of time before you know it still catches up with them  
you can't really run away from the problem  
and something you know something has to be done but just that too many people argue about how to fix it  
oh sure  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's good  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's to bad because it's uh i mean just even the random occurrences where you know it's unsafe for a woman just to walk from the car to the some in certain areas like from the car from their car to the mall or something  
and it's dangerous  
and it's just that's just ridiculous  
and you know it's just that's just not right  
something you know  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
it's definitely unfortunate  
compared to what do you live in
do you live near downtown
um well i live i i live in northwest garland actually about a mile south of one ninety
so we're really quite far north
and the house we just moved into a house that has lots of windows and i course i have a dallas policeman that lives right behind me
so i don't know if that'll do any good
uh it's it's interesting though that you've been broken into
you must you must look at this whole mess a lot different
did you see today that they the the police [commanders] got a pay raise
and the regular folks didn't
it was just on the news
i was just watching a little of it just before you called
and they and they cutback on overtime
and they have to take electric clocks home
and you wonder what that does to fighting crime if they had an electric clock on their desk they were supposed to take it home to save energy
i'm serious
doug [clark's] on channel eight
what what what do you think why people breaking into your house
um
what time of day are they breaking in
yeah
well are you uh you said you're not in a in a rich neighborhood
but
are there are there
obviously um drug people in the area
do you think they just kind of hit your house at random or were they going down the street
okay
so they're really just looking for a nice enough house to find something to steal oh that's scary because every feels you're supposed to have dead bolts well my the front door on the house
i have has uh glass in it
well i wonder you know you know it's i don't know
this is tough
but i guess the issue is is if it's drug people what's the solution well that
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
well that that's real scary
but is the is the solution uh cutting off drug supply or is it
do you see that these people you know are they going to if you cut supply it's going to raise the price or if you uh
well how expensive is um how expensive is marijuana
it's not very expensive
but um the people that are i'd be curious to if the people that are wouldn't you think the people that are breaking in are probably
are probably crack that have got a pretty high
because i would think a hundred dollars worth of marijuana
i don't know what it costs but i should think that would be more than a lot more than just ordinary recreation it would be interesting to see if to the problem is is is what do you lock them up for you know
yeah
but they don't have enough proof against them
and then we got to well we had interesting enough we had a long before we moved we had some couple little kids came by and stole our drill and our saw and i had them marked and uh we called the police about a week later
it was a go cart in the alley
and he got to talking to the kids and we [recovered] the drill and the saw
but uh it it's one of those you know it was not not a real expensive neighborhood
uh but it's it's interesting that the motivation
and the question is what's the motivation not to steal and i guess that's what bothers it's like the criminal you know if somebody says well let's lock him up for life
well how should he you know what bothers me is the incentive that he's if you if you know you're going to be in there for life
why should you be good
but if you if you say i'm not going to let you out until you have a skill
and we think you're reformed well that's not how they do it they let them out when there time is served
i i guess the problem is is is what it would to do that would be more money than we
it's like the school issue and which i guess we're not supposed to
but anyway the idea of how much money would it take to reform these criminals and lock them all up
um
in your oh my
yeah
everything
well did they did you take your t v
yeah
but who buys silver any more
well yeah
but have you bought a place setting i have a niece that's getting married and uh she's not even um selecting a silver pattern because it's i've forgotten what my wife was telling me what the cost is just incredible to you know a place setting is is i don't know two or three hundred dollars or something
i mean your silver probably is worth a lot
but uh what are they going to do walk down the street
and tell everybody would you like to buy
yeah
well how would they know i mean they look pretty sophisticated
no
and and and how to put a value on a ring that you had made
yeah
that is scary
well that's the thing scares me about it is um who gets shot with the gun
they say that a large number of the homicides are people that know each other
that uh i've forgot what the forty or fifty percent it's surprisingly high people that shoot each other know them
i mean it's not like
the problem goes all the way back to the entire criminal justice system needs to be [reworked] no longer do we have a point where the crime fits the punishment
we've got guys now with in texas anyway is what i'm talking about
with the situation
we've got with prison overcrowding and everything
a man gets a fifteen year sentence they're averaging serving one month for every year [assessed] that's not the punishment is not fitting the crime now
i even gone have gone to the point where i don't believe in giving them a life sentence if you have to do that you might as well shoot them
it costs twenty five thousand dollars per inmate per year just to keep them locked up that doesn't count any medical or dental health they get a bullet costs twenty five cents you tell me which one's more cost effective
the victims and and the citizens of texas
as long as you've got the problem a big part of the problem anyway take a look at most of your politicians that are in now
ninety percent of them are practicing lawyers
as long as you got practicing lawyers in politics they're going to rig the laws to where they know they're never going to run out of business
as far as hard line laws dealing with criminals we don't have them in this country anymore
we have situation ethics john q citizen goes up robs the liquor store shoots the guy behind the counter his his uh lawyer is going to argue that
well my client was under the influence of whatever drug he was on at the time
and he wasn't really in his normal frame frame of mind well apparently he had enough [snapping] to where he got it
whatever weapon he used
and he was coherent enough to tell the guy give me the money or i'm going to kill you
if he if he had enough snap to do that he knew what he was doing the penalty [assessed] is death period
that's to simple
that's
well that's that's one of my biggest screams about the entire death penalty goes for in this country
they just appeal it and appeal it and appeal it if a person has done a crime so bad that the jury gives them the death penalty of the supreme court says we've got to give them one appeal okay
i agree
give them one appeal
when that appeal fails within thirty days execution of sentence
i think that you know of the the uh run across a man's file that was like on death row for nine years before they finally got around to executing him
i think you keeping him on death row for nine years was cruel and unusually torture that's it
eight
is the average because they'll appeal it for that many times
they want the money so they're going to
they will twist it and bend it
things are going to come to a point
it's going to probably get to such an extent where the average american citizen if they see a crime go down or a crime is happening against them they're not going to worry about trying to get a policeman
they're not going to worry about it because they're going to be packing their own heat
and they're going to take care of business themselves
that's
we're if you had judges that had any [backbone] whatsoever
they'd have thrown that out before it even got
i work there now
when i walk through this is what's bad when i walk through the front gate the inmates have more rights than i do
some days
it is
uh you can put uh there's um any number of things you can do aside from locking up in [solitaire] you can reduce their class in good time have them sent to a harder prison than what they're already locked up in they've got the different security class you've got your minimum in minimum out you've got your medium and the
well i don't know how you feel about this but uh it's really scary to me
there was a thing in there
our we have a little lewisville paper that just comes out twice a week
and there was a thing in there just this week saying that in all of denton county lewisville had the highest crime rate of all of it i guess that's true
but you know you've got to figure uh you've got to look at it like carrollton is in denton county you know
you know you know
and it gets kind of scary you know when you're looking at lewisville
you're looking at denton you're looking at you know some of the larger cities and and lewisville had more crime this last year than any of them
and it's just getting
it's just getting really scary and almost uh out of hand you know there's been i don't know if you've heard any any of it on the news lately or not
but there's been a couple of uh you know a few months ago there was a deal in north dallas where they had the man taking little girls out of their bedrooms breaking into their bedroom at that time
there's been a couple of those here in lewisville over the last few weeks
yeah
and they're you know they're not sure if we're working with the same guy or not
but uh it's really scary you know it really is
so
what are things like you said mckinney
do you live in mckinney too
are things pretty calm up there
or
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
i grew up in i went to high school in frisco and lived there several years
so i was up you know pretty close to where you guys are
and and it was always i don't know frisco there always seemed to be a lot of drugs in frisco for as small a town as it was there were a lot of drugs
but as far as major crime there didn't seem to be
it was you know one of those nice little small towns and nothing ever happened
and it would be nice to kind of get back into that
so i don't know
i just don't know as a matter of fact i had uh one of these conversations the other day where our topic was uh capital punishment
and you know the death penalty
and you know what you know we were talking about that
and one of the things that we kind of got to talking about is you know what is it
we can do you know what can what can be done to stop it
and i'm not sure that i know the answer to that question
you know i mean one of the things that we talked about that
i truly believe is you know you give somebody a you know a jury convicts somebody
and they give them a sixty year sentence
and the guys going to be out in twelve or thirteen years you know
yet they
oh it's very wrong
it's horrible you know
i i take a business law class um on tuesday nights and my instructor is a practicing criminal attorney
and you know
so he does this like everyday you know deals with this
and he said you know you could pretty much if you sit on a jury now
right now you could be sure that they will serve just about a quarter of whatever you give them you know
well they they say we don't have enough room in the prisons
and we've got to get them out
well if that's the case
let's come up with some money somewhere to build some more
and keep these people in
i mean there was a thing on tv the other night where they were interviewing it [wa] it was a women's prison and they were interviewing these women and these women are they asked them is this a deterrent
and they all said no
i mean we're going to be out in a couple of years
this is no big deal
i mean this is like a little vacation
we don't have to work
we don't have to you know we don't have to worry about making a living
you know we're fed and we're [clothed]
and we're you know this is no big deal
and and you know they were asked you know
well when you get out
will you commit that same crime again
and they said probably
you know that's how we live that's how we make our living
we live by selling drugs
we live by stealing we live by this you know
obviously the system's not working
you know an uh and i don't know what to do to make it work
it's you know
right
years and years
that's something we talked about too you know if
what this person had done ten years ago
the [brutality] of their crime
exactly
oh that kind of wears off with time and people's outrage slowly goes away
and you know
no
mine doesn't either
but with specific yeah
but with specific cases people you know the names aren't familiar anymore
an
you know people don't remember the what happened
and they don't remember the outrage they felt at the time you know that
oh my god
look what he did you know an
yeah
yeah
they don't mention that part
yeah
that's exactly right
there was a thing on the other night about
they had this women uh her husband was a police officer and was killed
i think [brutally] i mean this guy point blank just shot him in the head
i mean just uh for no reason i mean he the cop pulled him over for like a minor traffic thing you know
and and uh you know she was getting ready to go through the trial you know for this guy
and you know they asked her
uh can you imagine they asked her if she wanted the death penalty
and she said yes
i do
and i want to sit on the front row when it happens
i want to be there
i want to watch it you know
and you can't blame her for feeling that [vindictive] you know i mean
and you know it showed her trying to explain to her children where daddy is you know
and it was just oh it was just it was just horrible
i mean this her little girl was like five and she was you know all of a sudden she started crying and said mommy i want my daddy and and you know her mommy said i know honey
an
oh
and this little girl said uh said something about that man shot my daddy didn't he
and the her mother said yeah honey the man shot your daddy and uh she said where did he shoot my daddy and it was in the head
and the mother said well we won't worry about that
right now
and she said i think he shot daddy in the face and mom said well you're right you know
and she just started crying
and it was just so sad you know i mean just i want to
no
you an adult can't grasp something like that
the [enormity] of it you know i mean i i don't know
and these poor children are going to be [fatherless] forever
and this guy ought chances are he
he'll be out he'll be walking the streets and it's just doesn't
one of the two
that's right
that's right
i don't know
i just i know you i look at some of the millions of dollars that we you know give to other countries every year
and i know some of the
i know those people
i i mean i know they're people too
and i know they deserve to have food to eat and water to drink but i just want to say hey you know let's straighten out
use that money and straighten ourselves out before we go trying to heal the world you know i mean
oh we do
we do we we really do
and i guess if if we would as a country [unite] and sit down
an and if congress received a millions of letters in one week saying
we're not going to take this anymore
you're either you know do away with some of these laws providing this or we're going to vote you out next time
maybe something would happen
you know
but people don't get involved and don't sit down and do that
so i don't know
yeah
and just not pay any attention to it
yeah
yeah
well we're feeding starving kids overseas
but we're not paying any attention to the ones that are starving next door you know it's really sad
it really is
i heard something that their supposed to be starting a huge campaign in new york about um child abuse and stopping child abuse and it's supposed to be like it's starting there supposed to be like a big nationwide campaign
and you know
so hopefully that will take off and really do something
i don't know
there's just
yeah
kind of [fizzles] out
yeah
that's true
that's true
uh_huh
i chased a bunch of kids down on easter sunday we had put easter eggs out in the front yard for an easter egg hunt for you know my son and for his cousins and stuff
and and uh a bunch of kids came along and just started grabbing them stealing them
i went running after them screaming hey you stop you stop
i called the police you know i mean there was people that laughed at me they were easter eggs [dena] i called the police because i figured if these kids were stealing easter eggs at ten they're going to be stealing cars at sixteen and robbing houses at twenty one you know
that's right
these boys knew that what they were doing was wrong
and when i screamed at them to stop they kept running
they knew what they were doing was wrong that's why i called the police to heck with them you know the police asked me if i wanted to press charges
and i said no i'm not going to press charges i wanted the boys parents to know what had happened and i want you to go to talk to their parents
and i want you know their parents to be aware
well this is exactly what i told my mom you know when it was all over
i said if we had a decent set of parents here those boys will be back here this afternoon
with money to repay the eggs and with a big apology and nothing
the one girl the boys ran i couldn't keep up with them
but the one girl was like carrying a two year old on her back
and i was able to keep up with her and follow her until the police came you know
so we would know who they were
and her mother the police called her mother to come and pick them up and her mother had the same attitude as she as she did they were convinced that the absolute only reason i called the police was because she was black
it had nothing to do with the fact that she stole from me
and the little girl told me that the only reason you called the police is because i'm black and the little two year old sister she had with her she [patted] her on the leg and said see what happens when your black honey you'll live with this your whole life
and i told her
i said honey this has nothing to do with you being black i'd follow white kids that stole from me
i mean stealing is stealing i don't care what color you are you think just because you're black you can steal and nobody's going to call the police that doesn't make any sense you know
oh it was just horrible
and then the mother's attitude the mother looked at me and goes well what is it that you want
do you want me to pay you for your eggs or what you know it was that kind of attitude
okay
um i don't know if you want to start first
okay
basically um we're not in the city
we're out in the country
and uh we were living in the city
and i think uh crime has escalated quite a bit just from the uh short time we were in the city their crime and murders alone
this is in uh the city of minneapolis
and that's quite a ways from uh you know uh other cities like new york
and uh detroit and all of that
but just in particular crime has escalated quite a bit in murders i mean with guns and teenagers not so much um with people that are in their later twenties or thirties or whatever
it's basically people that are uh sixteen seventeen eighteen nineteen nineteen years old killing each other
um and there's like
one a day so that kind of gets to the point that you uh from the years before it wasn't quite as much so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh wow
yeah
oh definitely
for you guys sure
and like i said in minneapolis it was basically uh one a day every night you were hearing about a murder whether it was uh between gang related murders or uh somebody in the wrong spot at the wrong time that kind of thing
and uh teenagers killing each other
or random shootings just basically shooting a gun into somebody's house as they drive by or shooting somebody on the street just because they didn't even know them
but i think what's happening is um at least in minneapolis uh the i think that people are getting fed up with it and just this morning was uh reading uh or watching a t v program on women carrying guns to protect themselves against uh crime
and i'm all for it
i mean when it comes to somebody is going to do crime against me they're going to uh you know if if i have a gun
i'll shoot them i won't even think twice about it just simply because my safety comes first
and that person that's uh doing something against me would uh get shot
but i'm an old country girl that
a long time ago learned how to shoot a gun
and i'm not afraid of a gun
and i yeah
it's hard
like with uh in our home we have a gun in the home
but i don't go out and carry it around with me in my purse
but it comes down to i think a lot of new york women do from what i've been hearing is that new york
and uh other cities that have such a high crime rate in the [subways] and that are starting to carry guns
so
sure
uh_huh
sure
well he did it
out of a pure and vengeance and i think
he murdered just purely because of his but if you're uh up against a gang of boys or teenagers
yeah
right
exactly
if he had shot them
and uh shot them or wounded them or even shot just basically straight clear on onto their face or whatever if he felt that he was uh that much of a victim i think uh the court system would have looked at it a little bit differently
but he bluntly just shot them even after they were i think down on the ground
not moving uh or whatever
but uh i think there's a justification of where people say um most of the people are fed up with crime
so when you're going to get juries you're going to get juries of people saying well you know this guy asked for it
or this person asked for it or whatever
and i think you're going to find less and less juries uh saying well the the victim should be put on trial for it
um uh when there's a crime being produced you've got people like jeff [dollmeyer] that was bringing people into his apartment and killing them uh
no
no
that was in uh wisconsin
that was in milwaukee area
yeah
so you know you've got things like that
if maybe those guys would have carried a gun
they could have shot him right then and there before he the guy um got them
but it's just the idea that i think people are
more aware of crime
so i don't know
i think people
i don't know what's going to happen in the future either people are going to be going back to the old west and carrying a gun
[slinged] you know on their hip or hidden or whatever
but uh unless something happens
maybe laws change maybe some of these people that have had two three crimes against them never released from prison um then you've got to pay for them in prison though
so i don't know
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
there's a a lot of things that center around that crime area
uh you know from from just uh people trying to make a living on the wrong side of the law to those who are just trying to uh keep their drug habit up
and uh so i think that it [encompasses] a whole lot of uh concerns
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i just don't know what kind of criteria they have used for most of those early parole [leases] [releases] so uh
that's right
i think you're right
i'm sure it has a lot to do with it
well i think uh certainly that might have something to do with it
but i also think that the standards of uh what we consider normal is drastically changing each generation at least if not faster by because of the movies that are out there
and what all the kids are exposed to
and also the grown ups out there that we're just constantly watching
and what we would and you know used to consider awful is almost a normal kind of thing on t v now
and
yeah
and i
so i think that it's uh
and also i think uh the way our lives our families are are uh being raised that with a lot more single families
or a lot more full time working families that uh there are a lot more strangers out there taking care of our kids
and i i mean strangers in the sense of not the close family [nit] type that they used to have
and uh i felt so i think there's a lot more people growing up confused and feeling not really considering uh you know necessarily as wanted or loved as they might have felt uh had their family been a little closer [nit] that's that's right
that's a good good way to to say it
well i think it would be a long term change
i don't think that we will see it too soon
i think it will not i don't think it will slow down for quite some time
just because there you know it's going to take that pendulum a long time to swing
back the other way
that's true
uh_huh
oh yeah
i think there are definitely a ways that both parents can work and have you know responsible and and you know very loving children growing up and staying that way
but i think it takes the effort and extra time and effort out of those parents and not too many not as many people are doing that as they should because we're used to having an easy
get it when you want it society and uh you know the easy way out is considered more appropriate sometimes than than the working hard message
that used to be so
right
i think we're all tired
and having too many pressures
and i just occurred when you mentioned principal it occurred to me when i was teaching how uh it was becoming quite disturbing realizing how many crack babies
there were becoming you know out there in the educational area
and and the things that we'll be dealing with just on the educational front that uh are people children that will eventually grow to be older
possible crime makers themselves because they started out in life without any you know uh
well i feel like the major problem we have
and the reason that crime has gotten so out of hand is because there isn't a punishment
that's matching what's being done
and i think it starts when the kids are little
i think the parents in our community teach our children that as long as they can get away with something that it's all right
because i don't see a lot of parents especially where i'm at
i have a lot of the responsibility of whatever is done in our neighborhood because there's no other mothers at home
and i see a lot of kids very small kids coming home to empty homes every day and doing all kinds of unbelievable things
and as long as they don't let anybody know about it they get away with it
so you know i feel like if our mothers stayed home if we had that secure start
you know where kids learned the right way to act um they were rewarded for their good behavior and they had a secure family that they came from
i think we'd see a whole different society
that's right
yeah
right
well you know i did a survey on why mothers left their children to go to work
and i found out that more than eighty percent of all the people i talked to the mothers went to work to provide a better life for their children and when i
talked with their children their children wanted their parents home rather than the the material things
they were getting
and it's just too bad that the parents won't listen to this survey
so i just think that um another problem is i think the way the legal system has been set up that the criminals get out and the jails are so overcrowded
they can't handle punishing the people that are committing the bad crimes [sufficiently] i think they need to put more people out to death
um if it's completely witnessed and it's uh seen that
there's no you know
i think there needs to be more severe punishment
but it needs to be fair
right
i think that to
oh outdo it
yeah
or outdo what's been done
yeah
i think that's another problem
um i know that once when i was reading a book when i was studying history and it said you show me a country that can produce strong families and you'll have a strong country
and if you look back over united states history our country was strong until the mothers started leaving the home
that's right
that's right
and they do
and then they grow up and it just continually will get worse
so i guess what we
both agree on is that families need to change
their way of thinking
right
and i think people need to have some sort of a an idea of why we're here and what we're doing
and what we're working towards and why it's important to do these things rather than just getting ahead [materialistically] so
that's right
well um do they come do they come on and say when we've talked visited for five minutes
this is your first time
um we discussed i discussed on here with someone um last week about the justice system and how it could be improved on juries
we discussed about how half the jury that they select to you know come up with the verdict if half of those were law students then they could understand what was going on in the court room and have the time that they spent in their jury district count towards some of their graduation hours
wouldn't that be a good idea
so i think though sometimes the juries don't understand all that the legal you know
talk and and what's going on
uh actually we live out in gainesville virginia
and uh my wife is originally from the [bronx] so for the longest time we didn't have any any kind of crime protection on our house at all
because we lived way out in the country here
and uh then you know over the years
we have visited her folks
and her folks have probably the most impressive crime reduction system
i've ever seen on any house
you know they have grates across every single window they have probably three or four dead bolts on every door uh just amazing [array] of uh you know sort of security measures on their house
i mean it's harder to get into their house than it is probably a lot of minimum security prisons
so anyway
now she's turning our house into sort of the same thing
we have uh we have like grates on the on the uh door on the basement windows
even though there is very little crime in this area
and we just had a a guy come out a [locksmith] come out and put all those on as well as sort of [reinforce] all of our dead bolts and uh put new locks in them some doors and fix our french doors up so that they were you know secure so
yeah
yeah
what's it
like in dallas
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh man
incredible
yeah
yeah
yeah
it's clearly i mean they're not in category of business criminals
i mean there's there's criminals who are in just because that's their business
you know
i mean that's their trade essentially and you know then there's then there's really random of violence we actually had a a woman who was very close to our house which sort of inspired my wife to you know beef up our own security measures here uh she was a couple of houses away
and her husband travels a lot
and is gone
you know for weeks on end
and she was upstairs with her uh child and heard somebody say hello
hello from downstairs so she immediately calls nine one one
and uh the county police come over and of course the woman kept her on the phone
the whole time which i thought was a really good security measure because you know if you can get nine one one in gainesville virginia you know
you're probably you know i mean it's probably a pretty effective thing you know
uh so anyway the police showed up and they told her the person on the phone told her to run you know take the child and run downstairs and to let the police in cause they were at her front door
and so she did that
and when she opened the front door she had just bought this new german [shepard] puppy which had apparently you know gone all over the floor
so the the policeman stepped into the front door and actually started sliding around on you know the dog mess
and she
[yelled] [simultaneously] [yelled] look out which the policeman thought was like somebody's about to shoot me
so you know he's like spinning around in this stuff you know
i mean it's a pretty comical scene
but anyway it when the guy finally [regained] his balance you know he's just like get out of the house lady and stop trying to help me
but anyway later on
it's it's going to it's they didn't find anything
i mean apparently you know if the guy came in
he ran out and and the police tried to convince her that it was the dog playing with the remote control on the t v which just doesn't make any sense at all
no
i really don't they need to do more with uh you know the police forces they need to make sure you have more people out on the street
i think you know to try to keep track what's going on and be harder on criminals when they go to court you know make sure they go to jail and they serve all their term
but other than that
i don't really know what about you
right
right
right
oh you do
that's true
uh_huh
well i believe i believe that's true
i think you have to do more the teachers as well
education but before they get to the high school
of course because by then they're pretty much set
i think you start
way back when
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
well i think it's like the problem with you know drunk drivers that people don't they're not cracking down they let them back out on the street
they don't really take away their license they don't really make sure they can't drive anymore
so people don't think it is any big deal
and they just go out and do it again
nothing's going to happen to them
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
so it doesn't do any good people just do it again
same thing with when you have like sexual offenders
and you don't make sure they have adequate [counselling] then they just go out and do it again because you haven't really fixed their problem at all
so and that's probably part of the problem too because do you bother [counselling] these people or you make them go to jail will it really do them any good to counsel them
or is it just going to waste taxpayers' money
right
right
yeah
and the problem is
yeah
i guess that's why we have the problem
nobody seems to know what to do about it
yeah
that's true
yeah
right
i'm just afraid that if you put back in the death penalty every place that people will be uh the juries won't want to convict a person because they're they're really innocent because once
and you kill them they're gone
you can't like fix the problem
so there will be that much you know they will be really really worried about sending them to jail when they really should be in jail they will be like well i don't know
and the people who don't want to put them you know to death who think that's wrong won't convict them either even if they really believe they're guilty because they're really just on their part things like that
right
right
and if nobody had guns they would just use some other
well do you have any good ideas about this problem
right
uh_huh
right
yeah
well i have the same thing
and i understand because i live very close to dallas
so we have quite a crime rate too
but i'm not real sure what to do recently
it's been kind of a topic at work
and uh i just kind of feel that there's a lot of people in jail for crimes that are not really against the person and i think maybe we need to find another way to punish those people and put the real criminals in jail where they really can't do any harm and not let them out on parole in six months or three years or whatever and put them to work doing something useful where they don't just eat up our tax dollars
and that's kind of what we've come up with
but i don't know what are your feelings about that
right
well a dangerous thing you know where you will get hurt if they're out on the streets
i mean it i think this deal of [leona] [helmsley] has just kind of brought this all home and that's what kind of sparked the discussion was that this is a seventy two year old lady going to go use up tax dollars in jail and i just i just have a real problem with that
i think there's another way to deal with that
other than put this lady in jail to set an example
that's right
you know that really is true
well that's true
well that
is a potential danger though you're right about that
but uh traffic tickets things like that
i mean i've known of people just to be picked up because they didn't pay their traffic tickets and i i say yeah fine them extra do whatever
but to go ahead and put them in jail it costs us money when they do that
so i don't know
i just have a problem with overcrowded jails on crimes that nobody is really going to get hurt uh financially maybe and things like that
and yes
it has to be dealt with
but i'm not sure that's the way
yeah
yeah
and also i think that they can get off on too many technicalities i think that it turns out sometimes that the victims are the ones that have to defend themselves rather than the criminals and i think that's another thing that needs to be addressed too
i don't think
you have many rights as a victim
right
okay
uh_huh
yeah
i think so
and i don't know
i i've been [thru] a two year divorce recently
and i find that the system sucks to put it bluntly and so you know i just i don't have a lot of respect anymore for what i thought you know would be fair
you just figure oh well the judge will be fair
well forget it
it doesn't happen they're in a hurry their [docket] is full they want you in
they want you out
and that's the way it is
and so
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
so i don't know
but i don't know how you and i can solve this
so that's the problem you know we all have ideas but nothing seems to change
and i'm not sure how it can
right
well now that's not so far this year is it
or is that
oh i see
uh_huh
that's i think that's the most of the murders anywhere
i think
yeah
well we we have our share of uh murders down here
uh i don't know
i i'm i've been here for five years
and i don't know this kind of things don't hit national news very often
but seems like down in florida
but seems like down in florida there's a lot of strange crimes and murders that happen
i mean really off the wall stuff uh just a couple of weeks ago
these people rented a house
and the pool in the backyard of this house was kind of like a pond it was all green you know [algae] grown over it
and so they were cleaning it up and the guy hit something
he couldn't see what it was
and so he dragged it up into the shallow end
and it was a garbage can and inside the garbage can was a body
and uh you know
i think that stuff happens everywhere
but it just seems like when i lived in illinois i never saw as much of that kind of thing as i see
down here in florida
and i don't know why it is
maybe i just don't remember it
or or maybe the media in illinois didn't uh expose it the way the media does down here
right
i bet
yeah
they they have it here also
no
actually uh the university of florida in uh gainesville which is about two or three hours from where i live there's been uh there's been serial killers there for the last two two to three years
and uh they'll go through one two three four six seven eight girls they caught one guy
and then no sooner had they caught him
and and convicted him a few months later there was another serial killer killing these college age girls that are living on the campus down there
or
and so we have a lot of serial killers it's a there's a lot more
it seems like here than when i lived in illinois there was the one guy in chicago that had buried some thirty odd boys he was a [homosexual] and uh he had buried a lot of young boys teenage boys on his property you know he had raped them and killed them and buried them
and some
yeah
like ten or twelve years ago
this was this happened right
oh i bet that's just a [madhouse] i can't imagine
that's incredible
yeah uh
yeah
right
i tell you
there's just more and more of it as as every year it [progresses] i mean the world's getting worse
actually about anything you can imagine
uh from you know this petty theft kind of crud going around vandalism up to uh certain amount of organized crime where uh gangs are starting to to show up and actually you know qualify as gangs
yeah
right around fifty thousand
we i think this census we just missed fifty thousand by a couple of people or something like that
but uh yeah
it's just right at fifty thousand
uh_huh
murdered
and [mutilated] uh what these are girls that worked at this ice cream
parlor
or
so
so the place the place had shut down already
um
yeah
character profile [psychiatric] profile yeah
uh shoot
the the big problem is there's no real punishment for crime anymore
i mean the bigger the crime the less likely you are to get punished for it
i mean get out of any punishment anyway
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well they slaughter lots of innocent lives and they get you know a few years and a slap on the wrist someone else turns around and you know [embezzles] a couple thousand dollars from the local bank and they they practically get fried
yes
yeah
yeah
that's good
if nothing else
they've got the gangs pushed down to where they're you know not going to be very active at least as far as you know murders or open crimes are concerned
yeah
the neighborhood watch type programs
yeah
that's one that's the one thing that starting you know the only two things that are really making a difference are when the local people get involved and when they start doing something positive with families families have gone in the toilet in the last twenty thirty years
and it's as though they're really trying to push to make sure they go down the toilet lot of lot of institutions they seem to be fighting against the family
yeah
yeah
well to a certain extent
it can be [traced] back there
and and and that's okay to say so as long as you understand that you got to forgive it's not like they're doing it on purpose
usually very seldom are they doing it on purpose
yeah
had some [modicum] at least of acceptance to support
yeah
well that's the way it was with us we had i had a pretty good family life fact uh i had an excellent family life by comparison to a lot of people out there
it may not have been perfect
but they did what they knew how to do
and they did it the best they knew how so
yeah
yeah
i mean considering the conscious it seems to go
well [crime's] not very bad out there
uh_huh
right
it's been a lot worse this year um they have a lot of drug dealers over on you know where spring valley is
and coit it's real bad there has been for a few years
especially on the dallas side
dallas is just across the street and and uh they've closed down a bunch of apartment complexes
and uh you know like that
and they're having to crime sweep uh_huh
yeah
it used to be
right
get someone to pick up your papers and your mail
set your lights on timers and
yeah
uh_huh
the murder rate really seems to be up in fort worth
and dallas
well especially dallas last year in fort worth this year
uh_huh
yeah
this morning uh_huh
and apparently they already they already caught him or they're talking about somebody else they're talking about two million dollar bond for somebody
yeah
i never i never heard all of the story about that
i just heard it from people at work
and on the radio uh a little bit
it's really been fort worth has really been bad because of the [kidnappings] and all the armed robberies i i think i think that um they're just getting well they had that crazy person that kidnapped the the woman and took her all they way to saint louis before they were caught
you know
and she called the f b i
oh i i think that was [redbird] yeah
it's real bad too
everywhere
there's a mall there's bad crime though
yeah
yeah
yeah
exactly
uh_huh
they stole the [emblem] off of one of mine
yeah
apparently
from the insurance yeah
they also they tear off the hood ornaments too
and one of them costs thirty dollars
so
right
that's right
uh_huh
yeah
i think so
i mean and they said take what steps
and we already discussed that
right
yeah
i work at valley view
and they have horse patrols and um and they have the mall security that that drives around
probably around the mall at least once every ten minutes at night
especially because they have so many stolen cars
and they've had um three three armed robberies of jewelry stores
and uh and they've all been in the middle of the day
you know
and one of them was three hundred thousand dollars
yeah
really is
but i've seen they've stepped up security quite a bit
and the police are around a lot more now
so
yeah
then they they use [undercover] too
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh yeah
small town
but still you know
right
yeah
it's nice talking to you
you too
have i um no
i guess not
yeah
that's true
that's true
they uh in fact uh they also i don't know if you're familiar with the japanese method of
dealing with crime
but they don't they have an extremely low rate extremely low especially considering the uh the density of the population and stuff
uh they have uh they have this sense of of family that's very important to them and and family honor and what they do the the main punishment the most effective portion of their punishment is that they take and publish the [offender's] name in a newspaper that gets spread all over the country especially in the region that they're in
it well it gives the person's name
and the family is typically so embarrassed that they have to they sell their house
they leave they leave the region and move to the opposite end of japan and so it [shames] the entire family including the grandparents and maybe aunts and uncles
uh_huh
right
i'm willing to bet
uh_huh
yeah
you know the i guess the thing is is you know what uh uh in part one of the things to blame is the [disintegration] of the family in general
and the importance of the family
and and and that's you know you can't just [magically] push a button and make that come back i guess
but uh probably related
but [incidentally] um i just uh just reading in the newspaper about uh uh this they're
i don't know they're moving some of the uh highway uh things in here in texas
the offices and they had ranked dallas as being uh seven out of seven on scale of quality of life
and i assume that that includes that includes crime no [nowheres] nowhere else in the state was above about a three point two yeah
and and and and dallas was a seven point oh
yeah
i i really i thought it was pretty surprising
yeah
well they they uh even even austin had
it's share of nasty crimes recently right with the with the sort of [senseless] murder of these girls at the uh at uh the ice cream parlor guy just walked in
and
yeah
but you know look at the what's the cost of keeping them in
it's something like uh
yeah
it's like twenty thousand dollars per per year to keep somebody in jail
nobody wants the the city or the the
government doesn't want to let them do it
yeah
it works
yeah
that's true
yeah
but i don't know
you know i mean obviously you know having some more jails isn't really the solution either
i don't know
i mean there doesn't seem to be
terribly effective
you know there's been several you know those kind of died on the vine they were there were separate proposals around to do that kind of thing
and i haven't heard anything about them recently
maybe i'm the one just hasn't been paying attention
uh_huh
well i am a school principal
uh_huh
well it is elementary school
elementary school
but i have gang problems
uh_huh
i am in a part of dallas where there is a lot of gang activity
and my i have through the sixth grade
but some of my sixth graders will be thirteen fourteen years old
and they get [recruited] so uh we we have really very significant problems
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
it is surprising to me
that it's through there because the only time i have ever been to utah
i spent a week on the brigham young campus
at a [workshop]
and it was very uh dramatically different that the people you saw than what we see here
because you have no minorities you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
but of course you know a lot of parents that are not really parenting much
have you that in utah
do you have that in utah
because i would think that being mormon influence there would
uh_huh
well i i work in an an area of town
like my school
is about seventy five percent anglo and that is very unusual
in the dallas public schools
but it's very it is like the lowest socioeconomic anglo yeah
it is what in the south we call poor white trash
and then the other significant percentage i have is hispanic
and of course that is growing
but the kids that i have the biggest difficulty with are anglo children
and i i have got lots of anglo children who are just not really wanted by anybody
well for example i have a boy now he checked out today
he is fourteen he is in the sixth grade
he lived with his mother in mississippi
he had been to he thought ten or twelve schools in mississippi
then his mother now his mother and father are not divorced
but they don't live together in a long time
his mother had a new boyfriend who moved in who owed so much back child support for his children
that they couldn't afford to keep her children anymore
so they sent him here
and here he was with his father and his father's pregnant girlfriend and they [pawned] all of his personal belongings like he had a nintendo
a v c r and some stuff they [pawned] that
and he has just been tearing my school up and he told me he is going to be bad enough to be sent back to mississippi
and today they checked him out
and sent him back to mississippi
now those kids
but those kids are ready starters for gangs
sure
something to belong to give them identity give them importance give them a certain security
so
do you live in a high crime area
uh_huh
oh
do you think that that will do it
they'll go to the yeah
huh
oh
yeah
arlington texas
uh_huh
you don't have much street crime
right
um
that's what i would think in that area
yeah
so what do you think you can do to
uh_huh
right
right
family unit
you mean
uh_huh
uh_huh
fix
yeah
yeah
and that's what the uh seems like the uh genre of the crime these days is a lot of desperate people
whereas i think probably fifty years ago
the crime wasn't quite so intense that way
and it
yeah
with the
uh_huh
well i mean i think the reasons were different back then
more than they are now like you're saying the drugs
can make people really desperate
so that makes them also very dangerous
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's really disgusting
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh yeah
because they have no idea what it's like
yeah
uh_huh
right
well i think for the u s i think from what i've read that the u s has one of the highest crime rates in the world
so i think that's a priority
we're not
uh_huh
right
yeah
no
if you come down to it
if you look at uh the statistics on child abuse and uh violence against women and uh the drug wars and uh also uh let's see
i think with like with rape it's one out of three women and one out of ten men
or boys rape
the the amount of rape
and uh uh like with the drugs
i think that one solution that i i hate to say it
but is [legalization] because that's where all the the gangs get their power
over the drugs because it's illegal
and uh i
there's a lot of complications that go along with saying that
well my uh uh basic concern is that overall we have uh such a overcrowding in the prisons now that uh judges are actually uh
[basing] their decisions on what they do with criminals once they are caught
that uh probation and stuff like that is uh becoming more and more prevalent
and more people are getting out earlier
and so there's less you know motivation for people to you know deterrent i guess
the deterrent value has gone down
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i know it's a
yeah
it gets sort of hard
and then uh they get information from people and their attorney isn't present
and they can't use it you know because they just assumed that the guy was you know
[tortured] or beaten into uh giving his confession no
yeah
that i don't what ever happened
but that is amazing
oh brother
yeah
yeah
he's a little upset
he doesn't see me
so he's like oh where'd you go you disappeared down here stephen he's uh ten months
uh_huh
yeah
he's getting to be a big boy really
uh no
i have another one that's two
well yeah
both of them in diapers
yeah
that's a that's a little of a work load yeah
but uh my wife's home during the day
so
so
she uh she does has most of the fun time
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
yeah
i think that's probably the that that seems to be the [guiding] factor with the judges they say hey
we'd like to convict more of them
but you know we don't have a place to put them so what are we supposed to do
and uh yeah
right
yeah
right
if you don't want to have the death penalty take it away
but you know
make up your mind
florida
yeah
and louisiana
yeah
i know they have it up here
but it takes you know
yeah
uh_huh
and it's going to take a few years for it to kick in
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
right
oh my word
yeah
i i think the deterrent would uh really make a difference that
and you know uh paying cops a little bit more you know because the police officers we have they're either you know there are some that have that are actually going corrupt because they don't get any money
and there are some that the best quality people are not going into the force because they say hey you know there's better things i can do you know
uh_huh
there's yeah
there's some people that are dedicated and will do it anyway
and then there's some that you know the police department would say well it actually would like to turn this particular person down
but we need them you know
and um i'm sure you
yeah
right
yeah
um
yeah
right
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
i think that that is true
well i better get going
see what he's doing
okay
thank you
unfortunately it's apparently the crime wave is not limited to cities you know it's spreading to you know our communities also
and smaller
uh_huh
i'm originally from a little little rural town in southern oklahoma
yes
yes
that is
that's really scary
it has
it's done the same thing
even in my little town and gosh it's only like a thousand people
there's one [deputy] sheriff that tries to you know
patrol the whole thing
and he's you know
he's just overwhelmed
that's right
sure
it's probably a safer environment for them
boy i
who knows
i don't know
uh_huh
uh_huh
are you talking about education wise
yeah
uh_huh
that's true
absolutely
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
you know as you know you watch the nightly news you know like i did
and boy you know
it's not a day or night that goes by in this
in this area at least as somebody
at least somebody doesn't get killed or raped or robbed during this
the [jillion] others
we don't even hear about probably
uh_huh
yes
that's a hot topic you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's right
that's right
you never hear about
and you know the some of the crimes are so crazy you know just you know killing somebody for a five dollar bill or some stupid thing like you know you just you just never know
you know it's
i sometimes get concerned about you know driving down the down the street you know if you look [crosswise] at somebody they're liable to blow your head off
it's really scary
i don't either
yeah
it's also not getting any better
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
and even down to the death penalty
i think as far as you know appeal after appeal after appeal i think they've finally began to say you know [enough's] enough
yeah
that's right
yeah
there are a lot of people favor you know mandatory jail time with no no you know no good time off you know i don't know
i don't know if that's an answer or not
i'm not too sure people are really scared of jail time anymore because they're in and out
so quickly
i'm not sure that's a real scary item for them
you know it's
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
yeah
right
you know this building jails you know more jails the answer
i'm not sure it is
i don't know
i honestly don't know
i wish i did
i'd be glad to share it with everybody if i knew uh_huh
yes
yes
before they get to jail
yeah
i agree
i don't know maybe you know maybe maybe it needs to start at home you know with the parents as much as they can do you know parents can only do so much up to a point
and they've lost it
uh_huh
right
that's right
yeah
i tell you the truth though both
i have two children
both of are you know young adults grown and gone away from home
i'm honestly glad i'm not raising children at this point and time
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
absolutely
yeah
yeah
it's no guarantee
that's right
uh_huh
that's right
if you can help it
that's the key you know
that's right
yep up to a point you after that you've lost it
sure have
i'm just glad i'm not raising young children anymore
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
i'm not so sure
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's right
nope
maybe just a smaller just a smaller scale maybe but you know the idea is still the same
it's there
it really is
i don't know
uh like i say i'm just glad i'm not trying to have to raise small children again
yeah
me too
in the time allotted no
i don't
don't think so
but i don't
i don't know anyone that isn't concerned about it
uh_huh
that's right
not to mention monies spent
so i don't know wish i did
yeah
i guess so
the police i'm sure are just you know maxed out
there is only so much they can do
uh_huh
yeah
no
i don't either
as a matter of fact i think they're doing you know probably for the
most part the best job they can do
with the resources they have
it's really
must be discouraging though to know that you know you bust somebody for something they may be out on the street before you finish your report you know
that's got to be discouraging especially if you've [risked] your life to do the you know if you're a cop you expect to risk your life
that's right
uh_huh
yeah
as i understand it talking to a couple of my police friends what they fear most is a call to go try to settle a domestic [quarrel] you know
apparently it's very dangerous you just never know
uh_huh
that's right
apparently it's very very dangerous situation
no
i don't i don't think i could be a cop i really don't
i guess that's pretty well it
nice to talk to you
bye
uh that's interesting
because i've talked about this subject before
and it it didn't come up to either one of us to act uh nothing that i would consider major probably the most that anything of mine has ever been violated is uh you know like you know how people throw their change like into uh the glove box or the ash [tray] of their car and one time we had you know some kids go up and down the street and anybody whose car was open they kind of trashed that stuff out
but they didn't do any vandalism and yeah it bugged me
but you know when i think of crime
and and things that could happen
i i guess that was minor
i have
ah
that's a very popular pass time up here
do you have a [vette] a [transam] uh in fact there was a ring
i know that you stop right up here
and uh the police department would call t i security when they knew they were in town
basically
and say you know tell all your folks with vets and whatever else to be on the lookout for them
but that's expensive
you know
yeah
they don't want to write you
uh
oh
that's not good
well okay
now i uh i mean i've had other members of my family touched
um i have had a cousin of mine that was murdered uh things like that uh for no apparent reason you know it's that was lost in the country trying to find her folks new house up in kansas
and stopped to use the phone and a teenage kid whose parents had lots of money
uh killed her
so nothing was ever done to him
but so you know
yeah
i i'm not sure there's many lives that aren't affected by it somewhere
uh i don't know what the answers should be per se
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i um i would like a home alarms that perimeter alarm system
i've been very impressed with the one that the amway corporation uh puts together because it's it's as extensive as you want it to be you can you can kind of coordinate to your own home you know
however many uh types of devices you need and it's a [wireless] system
so it's not one they can [disable] the name [amguard] yeah
they make it
uh_huh
and
oh
oh
yeah
about my husband he's like one of these like i want to have guns and guns kind of scare me uh not so much for me you know i feel like i'm responsible i'd learn how to use it
and yes
i could shoot someone if you know they were trying to take my kids or take my life or you know i'm basically a [nonviolent] person
but i could do that
but it scares me because of so many accidents that have occurred with children in the home that find the guns and uh you know accidentally shoot a brother or shoot a sister or shoot themselves
and i'm not real sold on that yet
by their own
yeah
well are you for uh capital punishment
well that's interesting that you say that because i am too
my my [sadness] with it [occurs] that it doesn't seem to be consistent you know i i have a hard time putting one person's death for the same crime that you send the other to jail for you know it does to me need to be consistent
but uh i i for life
that's true
that's true
of course my husband's of the mind that you ought to take them all out in the back alley and shoot them
i don't know
i guess i have a little bit more compassion i do think they ought to have their day in court
only because there have been ones sent away that didn't do it
but i know that's few and far between
i uh i don't know the answer
you know i have always thought that maybe the answer to the dope problem that you know generates so much of the crime is you know is always you know shoot the dealers
and somebody made the you know take away the supply but somebody made a comment to me a couple of months ago
that's kind of had me thinking he said somebody else will come up with the supply he said what you have to do is you know shoot or make it hard on the users because if the demand is gone
they won't have anybody to supply to
well that makes a little bit of sense
sure
sure
that's true
but where was it uh-oh several years ago
and i want to say like malaysia or something with an m [madagascar] or somewhere a small country uh you know it's it's a crime punishable by death to them to be carrying anything
and i think some british citizens had gone in like uh a lady and her son and they had some marijuana on them
and they hung them
was that malaysia okay
i knew it was something like that
and i thought jeez
that seemed so severe for marijuana
but then i thought
or is that just because uh i have become accustomed to other things in hearing other things you know if i knew two of my friends got hung for carrying a little bit of marijuana it might make me think twice before i ever did it if i was of the mind to you know
so i don't know what the answers are but i i do feel like i do feel like when they're [blatant] criminals and they've got records that it seems like the system protects them more than it helps
the others
no
we're not
death
yeah
yeah
i don't know
i know that you know i remember growing up
and uh you know we'd leave the house open if we were in the house
yeah
if we went somewhere
i grew up in a large i grew up in san diego
you know if we went somewhere sure we'd lock the doors if it was just down the street
we wouldn't or if we were in the house we wouldn't but now you know i come home
i lock the door if we open the door
i lock the screen door you know
i want it locked when i'm in it every time i go somewhere and i i just almost hate that feeling
yeah
well that's one way to look at it
isn't it
where'd you grow up
oh okay [umm] excuse me
yeah
that's pretty minor when i think that some people give their lives
so i don't know the answers though i i i do wish we had a system that was a bit more fair
oh well that's good
right
i'm sure that's true
i'm sure that's true
i do know that our neighbor across the street our development is probably only eight years old
maybe not that long
we've lived here six years probably seven years old
and the the house across the street you know she walked in one night on somebody
and of course he left she was fortunate
but things like that make it real to me and aware that it really is going on
you know that's it
not a [fairy] [tale] world here
yeah
that's true
well
and i appreciate you calling
it's gary right
thank you very much
huh
you too
bye yeah
now then
are you there
so they're recording recording everything now
but you tell me the crime is rampant out there
yes
um well that's what we have had here in dallas for oh for the past year we lost so many people due to crime this past year
so what do you think is a solution to any of this
do you think that's the majority of our crime
well i think here in dallas
we've got uh it's greater than that i think you know like ninety percent of our crime is uh connected with the the drug scene because we beg pardon
go ahead
yeah
okay
you mean in their clothing they
okay
i'm not aware of that being part of our problem
it's just that uh seems like these kids or older people that uh need the need the money for the drugs and then they're shooting and we have we had a little boy in uh well it's west of here was riding in the car with his mother and father on new year's eve night and someone fired into the car
the the mother and father did not even realize that there had been a
i mean they thought fire crackers and that sort of thing
and when they arrived where they were to have had celebrated new year's they found this baby dead
and the bullet hole directly behind the driver's seat
now this is something that my lord
something's got to someone has to do something
that's right
yes
no way can we uh anyway i pray that you have a good new year i hope it's a safe new year for you
and what about this isn't part of the conversation
but have you had any rain out there
okay
that's what i understand california needs
but
well i mean when you live in texas you accept it when it comes and don't complain about it
oh i still have an apartment that has furniture up on bricks because of the rain
uh_huh
and i live in a a nice part of dallas
but uh anyway if if the criminals uh do not come around here
i'm going to be extremely fortunate
yeah
uh_huh
you mean this is not occur after after sun down it's during the day to
o
okay um  
how has it been this week for you  
weather wise  
oh no  
damp  
uh_huh  
my goodness  
well i don't even want to tell you what ours has been like then  
it was ninety six yesterday  
and we set a record yesterday and uh very windy  
but then today the wind has dropped off and also the temperature so very cool uh  
i think right now it's like sixty nine  
and that's cool for  
or it feels cool compared to yesterday but very pleasant  
no rain in the last month i don't think  
the [ground's] very dry  
and our yard work everything is in bloom  
so our yard work is pretty tough the ground being dry  
but i guess it also uh brings about allergies  
we're having a lot of allergies down here right now  
everything blooming  
and and the weather  
and uh i think a lot of people have contracted uh spring fever too  
so had a lot of people out at work you know for fishing and and uh   and golfing reasons and things like that  
yeah  
yes  
um  
um  
uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no snow  
um  
um  
um  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
it is  
down in the more southern and western areas  
and of course we are um about two hours from the northern border straight south  
and and uh very windy  
it's amazing to me  
because i have only lived in dallas for three years  
and i cannot believe that the wind blows all the time  
it does  
i i  
very seldom if any  
i can't remember you know a day that i walked out and the wind wasn't blowing  
um  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh where did you go to school in indiana  
purdue  
i have a brother that lives in uh uh south bend indiana  
and i had to always  
i've lived there for eight years myself  
i'd always said i was going to go back to school and go to notre dame  
but i didn't uh  
no  
originally i'm from new mexico  
i was born in new mexico  
and we lived in uh south bend for eighty eight years and uh then moved to uh tennessee actually  
and uh  
very much  
very much  
cause i i spent thirteen years there   and uh then moved to dallas about three years ago  
so  
yeah uh  
my father was in the air force  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it's um it's just as long as you want to  
i mean it's just uh as long as you want to and just you know a reasonable [lengthy] conversation  
uh do you work for texas instruments  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
yeah  
well actually i i work for texas instruments  
and uh i'm an a i'm an environmental engineer  
and uh they just published this internally you know getting people involved  
so that that's really strange  
i i was wondering why we had somebody from maryland though  
i was saying god do we have a t i in maryland  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well  
yeah  
yeah  
well really it uh the letter just says um  
let's see i can't  
i was looking at it  
i was trying to find out speedy short cuts  
and i always thought it's not necessary to measure your time just to go ahead and enjoy the conversation and and end it when needed  
so  
uh_huh  
uh well it's actually um waste water  
taking taking care of uh  
i'm actually in the air division  
and we monitor um anything that comes out of a stack or out of a building  
or um we do have customers that um their concerns are in the work place  
and we take care of that  
but   within our department we take care of everything waste water uh solid waste and recycling and and air and  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we actually our division is corporate wide  
and we take care of just the dallas area  
of course we have several plants here  
but um we do air modeling also  
and and yeah i take care of all the air modeling specifically for the dallas area  
what we do we have a weather station that we get all of this information you know temperature wind speed wind direction  
and uh we have a huge chemical data base  
and uh our our chemical data base so that we know every chemical on site  
and and um it's concentration  
and if if anything ever happened god forbid you know a building explosion or something we'd be able to track chemicals from that building with our weather station  
weather wise or otherwise  
weather wise  
damp cold warm  
we have we have gone through what might be called the four seasons uh in the last week  
we have had highs of seventy two lows in the twenties  
i heard about that  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the blue flu  
yeah  
the blue flu or the white collar flu depending on where you work i guess  
oh we have had uh as i've said we have had variable weather uh  
it has been [untypically] wet for this time of year  
and also we have a lot of green you know  
the grass has been growing  
and if you look outside you would like to go out and mow your lawn   if you could go out and buy a new spark plug or something along those lines  
but fortunately it rains  
and you uh do not have to go out and buy the spark plug   you know  
but we've had an unusually uh uh warm spring  
and well i guess we're still in winter  
and uh   we have had no snow  
to speak of to speak of  
we usually average oh anywhere from six to twelve inches during the winter  
and this year as well as last year we have had less than four inches total [accumulation]  
so it's been inordinately warm uh here for uh for this time of year  
so uh in that regard it's fine  
but uh   i envy you your ninety four degrees  
i thought i heard this morning that in san antonio it was in the nineties yesterday  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i spent six years in graduate school at in indiana in the [flatlands]  
and it was that way every day  
rarely a day went by when the wind was less than fifteen or twenty miles an hour   summer and winter  
so that uh  
you you became accustomed to it i guess  
but uh otherwise as i said we have had uh a relatively mild winter   speaking for this area of the country  
purdue  
oh yes  
well you are not from that area originally i can tell  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
well i thought i heard a little tennessee in there somewhere  
uh_huh  
gee  
you've moved almost moved around as much as i have  
oh i see  
well i worked for the government  
so i i moved uh much more frequently than i had intended for sixteen years  
but uh i guess the uh this is my first conversation in this uh uh series  
i i received a call last night because of the uh  
i had not received my uh personal identification number  
so i had to call jack [godfrey] today to ask him what it was because i i had to [abort] the call last evening because i couldn't get on the line  
so uh is there any  
i'm not sure how long we're supposed to talk  
oh  
no  
i do not  
i work for g t e  
and i uh of course was i was sent a uh an application from uh from jack  
i've known jack for some time  
i'm in the speech processing business   and have been for a number of years  
so i was very much interested   in in being a speaker for this  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
i'm sure you have a representative somewhere in the area   if just nothing more than a business representative or government services representative  
and um but i have uh i have been a speaker in other uh similar type of activities  
and i know the reason why this is why the uh this is being gathered and the program and so forth  
so i was interested as i said i was interested in being a speaker  
we haven't talked much about the weather  
i know that's what we're supposed to do  
uh_huh  
in environmental engineering uh  
is that with regard to work place engineering or just you know the work place environment  
or  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
well i had  
my the the call last evening was supposed to be about uh concerning recycling   in the community  
the call i received  
and so i had uh i had thought a little bit about it um   before hand  
so i  
but that that's interesting  
i have a uh uh friend who is a planner   uh a city planner  
and one of his  
and he models uh city districts and so forth   uh does computer modeling  
and one of the uh  
he has inputs or gets inputs from uh an environmental engineer  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
well that's interesting  
all right have you lived in this area long  
okay  
yeah  
it it it's it's a lot warmer a lot drier too because usually about this time of year this you know you see a little bit more rain  
i mean by by mid february i mean we start getting a lot of rain  
but it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[unseasonable]  
i used to my wife and i we used to live in san antonio couple years ago  
and it was it was i remember the first day of spring  
it was so much ice that came down later on that that afternoon and evening  
it was just it was horrible  
yeah  
yeah  
well um i don't know  
i i guess i'm just sort of acclimated to colder weather  
um i i like it warmer  
i mean i like it you know i like it warm  
but it doesn't really matter  
i mean i'd i would much rather see it cool at this time of year anyway because it would mean a little bit more rain possibly  
but uh  
well i spent three years in germany  
so i'm not too thrilled with the whole thing anyway  
but i got used to it  
it was really strange  
i mean when i when when when we came to san antonio it was just like uh you know it just just [swelter]  
and then we got used to it  
and then we went up to dallas  
and it was just  
it's it's not not that it's just hot or dry  
it's just not very comfortable  
it just  
yeah  
a little bit  
yeah  
yeah  
my wife and i the last day we were in florida we my visiting my uh my parents and my brother and sister  
we were we were down there  
and the last day right before we left we had to i had to ride with my sister  
and the air conditioning went out on the car  
and we you you just get used to air conditioning all the time  
and this  
it was just  
the humidity was like eighty plus eighty percent plus  
and it was just killing us  
yeah  
yeah  
well i mean i i i guess i've been in some places you know where the weather was just so mild you know places like monterey california or   you know  
just you know so mild  
and then you've been to such extremes like san [angelo] texas where you just where you walk outside and you sweat  
you know you're sweating  
you look down at your arm  
but you see the water leaving your arm  
it's so hot   you just feel it pulling away bizarre  
yeah  
yeah  
i tend to agree  
but i don't know  
i i think in in some in some respects it probably more [tolerable]  
no  
the other topics  
i got one topic  
they said talk about the middle east well  
well i mean i've had some pretty bad i guess some pretty controversial topics  
so it's just like well that was my fault  
but then the weather's like  
man i mean it gets pretty [mundane]  
i mean you can only talk about about the situation just so long  
okay  
bye  
no  
i've only been here a couple of years  
uh but uh i've i've noticed that uh this year it seems to have been a lot warmer than it has in the past  
yeah  
yeah  
well i remember last year or the year before   uh we had ice and snow uh uh  
terrible ice storm uh around this time of the year  
and uh this year it's been so hot and uh sunny  
it it's really quite uh quite amazing  
uh_huh  
um   yes  
i was just talking to my son today  
he's up in boston  
and it was twenty nine there  
and it was you know in the seventies out here  
and   it was really uh  
he really wished he could be here rather than there  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have you know  
i i  
i think it's really been delightful  
i come uh i've spent most of my time in in warm weather areas  
and uh uh the ice and snow just doesn't uh hold any [allure] for me at all  

do you you think san antonio is more comfortable than dallas  
uh_huh  
you must well uh  
it must be quite a bit hotter down there isn't it  
oh wow  
oh yes  
oh yeah  
it's terrible  
orlando is the only place i've ever been where i've seen the car sweat  
i mean that's really bad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh wow uh  
i know i i tend to i tend to be able to get along with [monotony] in the weather when it's very temperate  
uh it doesn't  
some people say uh they they like to watch the changing of the seasons  
but uh i'd rather you know like southern california you know have it kind of sunny and temperate all the time  
so it's kind of a luxury  
yeah  
well i guess this the weather isn't as lively a topic as uh as some of the others we might have gotten  
i guess we're supposed to say good bye or something and think about what  
my daughter is here [prodding] me to say good bye  
we messed up the conversation anyway  
yeah  
i know  
weather's just not all that inspiring  
okay  
well it's nice talking to you  
bye bye  
there we go  
i think that's true  
the uh the bermuda grass is [greening] up in march  
and sometimes doesn't really start doing that until the first part of april  
so   so i think we're a little ahead of schedule on that  
that's true  
it's been a a fun break  
but the break is over  
yeah  
now the last couple of weekends have been nice and sunny  
well yeah  
but i'd rather have a sunny weekend than a gray weekend  
yeah  
yeah  
i haven't heard whether it's going to rain or not  
well that's good  
yeah  
that probably is a little bit under what it is for this time of year  
i think  
i haven't seen the the weather on the news in the evening lately  
but i think the average high would be should be about seventy  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
um one of the remarkable things about the weather in the summertime here is that quite often the average daytime high of say ninety nine degrees is within five or six degrees of the all time record high  
and what that tells me is that the summer weather is very predictable that it doesn't vary very much  
i mean any other time of year that's not the case because it could be very warm or very cold  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
one of the weirdest things i saw i think it was around this time last year was a twenty six degree lightening storm  
i you know i was going into the grocery store  
and a a lightening bolt was almost directly overhead  
and it was six degrees out  
and i thought well gee i've i've never known it to lightening at that temperature  
that's right  
it uh it probably was a lot warmer up high  
sometimes they get those inversions like when we had that twelve and a half days a few years ago that it never got up as high as freezing  
the air temperature at five thousand feet was fifty degrees  
the cold weather was just simply trapped along the ground and couldn't get away  
nope  
yep  
i i'm really enjoying this now  
well this has been interesting  
not too challenging to the brain  
nope  
all right ellen  
well you have a good day  
bye  
yeah  
well uh i think the weather lately has been a bit warmer than i would expect this time of year  
yeah  
yeah  
i was out in my yard yesterday afternoon  
and i noticed all that grass coming up  
and i thought ooh  
we've got to start this mowing bit soon  
yeah  
well um oh i guess another thing i've noticed too here lately is that even though we've had some pretty warm days it's been awfully gray you know just  
yeah  
but it seems like every time at work i look out my window it's gray  
oh i go for that  
yeah  
in fact i'm a little worried about this one coming up here  
we have a long weekend  
and it sounds like it's going to be a little bit on the cool side  
i think there's an eighty percent chance this evening  
but it's supposed to be cleared out at least by noon tomorrow  
and then the rest will be without rain  
but i think the highs are going to be in the sixties and the lows in the forties  
that's getting back to a little bit [chillier]  
yeah  
i'm not certain either  
but you're probably right  
well i like it when it's sort of a medium temperature uh maybe seventy five to eighty somewhere in there  
i don't like it when it's too cool or too warm  
i'm much more apt to get things done when it's at that sort of in between temperature  
um  
yeah  
you're probably right  
yes  
as a matter of fact i heard the weather the other day on t v  
and i think it was one day this week a year ago  
they said that we had a freeze and some kind of bad weather you know  
it wasn't just a super bad storm  
but it was   it was that sort of thing that we never like to see in the the late spring time  
oh wow  
um  
yeah  
that that is pretty unusual  
and you really take notice of it too  
um  
wow  
i don't don't like that super cold stuff  
i just don't move very well when it's that cold  
yeah well  
not not a real in depth topic but   enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
so what kind of weather have you had in dallas  
really  
yeah  
see i didn't i don't  
i thought uh i thought  
i lived in euless  
and i thought it was pretty normal  
but anyway but i guess you're right though it has been real hot  
because it um  
i've had to use the air conditioner in march  
my husband usually  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
the trees are real pretty right now and everything  
and uh i don't know  
i know the pollen is real high  
but i think it's higher than usual isn't it   yeah  
i know  
it's been bothering me a lot  
but  
yeah  
i think i think the weather overall has been um probably like you said probably a little bit warm  
and   uh  
anyway  
so we basically live in the same area  
so it's real hard to  
i know  
i just think it's been warm  
and it's been hot  
and i liked it  
and it's beautiful  
and all the trees are pretty  
and i wish it would stay like this all the time  
so yeah  
i could too  
and uh [gah] i don't think we can say anything else really  
yeah  
that sounds like a good deal  
well you have a nice day  
and we'll talk to you later  
bye  
well it's been very windy  
and it's uh probably unseasonably hot for time right now   yeah  
we've already had to use that  
and we've had like  
i mean this is probably typical though uh we  
like tornado weather and tornado warnings  
and uh  
so uh you know i i forget from year to year  
i'm getting too old  
but the uh   it the [wind's] blowing very hard  
but i guess you know we're just out of march and uh   will bring the rain in uh april  
yes  
it is  
seems very high  
it hasn't bothered me  
but i know that people that have allergies it seems to be pretty high  
a little bit warm   and a little bit [blowy] i think  
really hard to make too big of different [comparisons]   right  
yeah  
yes  
i could stand this all summer  
i don't think we can either  
let's cut off  
you too  
bye bye  
well amy it's been uh kind of overcast today and cloudy  
we have  
our  
i have a son in kindergarten  
he was having a [kite] day  
and i was really worried about it raining because it has there's been some dark clouds  
and it's been um and it's been pretty rainy   looking  
uh_huh  
i know it just   has that  
i  
it looks  
several times in the last couple of weeks it has looked rainy that day   and not not done anything  
and we have a lot of trees in our yard  
and i probably  
they're pretty old big tall trees  
and so if it's an overcast day then the weather is pretty blah   because i really have to catch some sunshine or else i feel like i live in a cave all the time  
uh_huh  
oh i bet  
yeah  
that makes a big difference  
but i uh  
we're kind of new to plano  
and i'm working on a carnival that's going to be in a couple of weeks for our school  
and i'm thinking that this has been pretty you know rainy season  
and it's been kind of scary  
it's kind of been cloudy every day  
and   i thought well i'm just not anxious to have worry about the weather  
well yeah  
uh_huh  
well i know in um  
i'm from missouri  
and we always had pretty nice four seasons  
and and you know  
we have some extreme weather in each season  
but uh i like that  
and we moved here from houston in in uh july  
and everyone kept saying oh you're going up north it's not going to be so hot  
it's not going to be so humid  
yeah  
that has just not been the case  
it   has been  
oh   it was extremely hot  
i thought i was going to die  
my car i thought it was going die last summer  
but  
well the air conditioning was broke  
but broken  
i guess it just couldn't handle   the stress and the heat the record heat  
and you know i was worried about every time we came to an intersection   the car started [idling] rough you know   because   of the extreme heat  
uh_huh  
oh i know  
that's really awful  
but but i uh understand that this is kind of typical for this time of year   that rainy season  
uh_huh  
no  
sure  
brown  
yeah  
that is that is awful and it it takes time  
and the the kids they  
you have to water your lawn  
and they want to go out and run in it and get all muddy   you know  
so you're going do i want a a green lawn or a muddy feet   in the house  
oh no  
well i don't know  
do  
the nice thing i'm looking forward to is uh not having a hurricane season  
yes  
we always had uh big concern about hurricanes  
and they're close enough to the coast  
and you know you had to have a supply like uh emergency supply on hand all the time   during the hurricane season  
and and it was pretty spooky   because   you always have to think you know what's the weather doing  
right  
and do we have enough you know um food storage and enough uh batteries and   all the kinds of things  
that's right  
so  
uh_huh  
well   i yeah i don't really like tornadoes either  
but uh at least there isn't  
we i feel like i got rid of something  
hurricanes  
so   not too much of that  
yeah  
and   it is  
and i just i can't believe the the record temperatures that   have were here last summer that  
oh it was just unbelievably hot  
that is pretty bad  
oh i know  
i can't imagine  
even  
well that would  
it is just pretty bad  
but i guess um i guess the weather hasn't changed too much from here to houston  
and   but it is  
like you say coming a little bit further up north   it's a little bit nicer to have a spring and a fall season   where you have some pleasant weather everyday where you can feel like you just want to open your windows  
and  
uh_huh  
and get some fresh air in the house  
and it feels good  
but   but i guess  
no  
but i   remember  
oh no  
now that sounds awful  
now i have seen those  
i have driven around in the neighborhoods and seen those little flood [gauges]   that will be at little yellow signs  
it's you know has it like from one foot to four foot  
and i thought i would never buy a house   with a flood gauge down the street  
yeah  
that would be awful  
well i've got some kids out on the [trampoline] i need to go look and see what they're doing  
well you too  
bye bye  
yeah  
oh boy  
yeah  
i've been trying to put weed spray on the lawn for the whole week  
and you can't put it on if it's suppose to rain within forty eight hours  
and so i keep hearing the forecast it's going to rain it's going to rain it's going to rain  
but it really hasn't rained  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i get tired with the  
i have two preschoolers a three year old and a two year old  
and if it's not nice and they can't go out it's really the pits  
but i appreciate it when they can at least go play in the backyard for an hour or something you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well my three and half year old he really wants to have the pool out in the backyard you know   any day  
i mean all winter long he's been wanting a pool in the backyard  
so i'm hoping you know that  
it just seems like the weather around here goes so quickly from being winter to you know muggy and hot  
and it's just you never really have like nice cool sixty five or seventy degree weather with sunshine   you know  
i really miss that  
i'm from chicago originally  
and i miss the seasons that you know that we used to get up there that you just don't have down here  
yeah  
oh  
oh really  
yeah  
it's pretty hot here during the summer   gosh  
do have air conditioning in your car  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know my husband doesn't have air conditioning in his car and he when he comes home from work you know during the summer   he's just he feels like he's burning like he's been baking for an hour  
gosh  
yeah  
what i hate is  
i hate having to water so much around here   you know  
we never used to have to water our lawns  
you know in chicago it was always enough rain here and there  
so here if you don't water it just looks awful  
i just hate to spend the money just going down the drain and watering grass you know  
yeah  
yeah  
we have a dog too  
so that adds to it   you know [traipse] in and out with whatever the weather is like out there  
so  
oh yeah  
because houston was really hurricane alley wasn't it  
weren't there a lot of hurricanes there  
oh boy  
yeah  
that would be  
gosh  
keep the weather radio close by and stuff like that  
yeah  
yeah  
really every time i store batteries i wind up going to use them and they're dead  
they've been stored so long  
oh boy  
well now this is a little bit of relief although they still have warnings all the time around here for you know tornado season   hurricanes and stuff  
so   i  
yeah  
yeah  
well i've been worried about mostly with having little kids now with taking them out in the summer and getting them burnt up  
i mean i have to keep the sun screen on them just constantly when they go outside   because they say it's just so dangerous for little ones to get a bad sunburn  
so  
yeah  
a hundred and ten degrees  
and  
and i can't stand to be outside at all when it's like that  
i just don't even want to go out you know of the house to get the mail even  
leave me in the air conditioning  
we had our air conditioning broke break last last summer  
the switch got something wrong with the switch  
and we had to call somebody out to fix it because i couldn't take it more than a few hours without it on  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's really nice  
i hate having to leave the house you know closed up all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
well have you been here during the real heavy heavy rains  
i mean i can't remember what time of year  
i think it's usually this time of year when we get some just [torrential] down [pours]  
gosh  
flooding  
our neighbors had flooding   so badly it was like a foot deep in their house last year  
they had to replace all their carpeting and everything  
it was miserable  
yeah  
that would not be fun  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh gosh  
no kidding  
talk about asking for trouble huh  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
well have a good day  
thanks  
bye bye  
well good afternoon to you mary  
first   let me ask you what's what's the weather like up there to begin with  
that sounds more like our winter weather down here  
um  
well you know i bet that's what we that storm we had last night  
oh we had a frog [strangler] go sweeping through here uh yesterday and last night  
and we're expecting another one tonight  
oh i mean it was raining so hard you could swim down the street  
uh_huh  
well it's probably on its way up there  
it was heading north  
well it was nice today  
uh in between the thunder showers  
yes  
well you know what they say about the weather here in texas  
if you if you don't like it wait five minutes it'll change  
uh_huh  

uh_huh  
well tell me uh is is it normally that cold up there in in the spring  
you're kidding  
you are you sure you didn't leave your refrigerator door open  
um hum  
oh  
oh mother [macree]  
no  
i should say not  
well i i [sincerely] hope that you don't have that terrible storm we had  
i hope   it doesn't reach you up there  
well i  
let's hope it  
well if it's the same as what we had at least it'll be warmer  
yeah  
oh boy  
the that whew that would be tear disastrous if you   had that rain storm and freezing weather  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh   yes  
uh_huh  
well uh i heard on the news this morning that um one of our local schools uh lost the roof of their [gymnasium]  
and they suspected may have been a tornado  
but uh uh thank god for small favors the uh uh  
what do they call them the the the marching band or something  
uh uh had just quit [rehearsal] about a half hour before  
oh and how  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well during the winter  
yes  
we do  
uh we've had uh well past four or five years i guess at least one day during the year when just everything would just close down because we'd have freezing rain  
and uh of course people down here they just don't know how to handle themselves  
and  
well uh   not only that  
but we're we're don't have the equipment to handle it either  
uh   they go out there  
and the  
well all you can do with with uh freezing rain of course is spread sand on the ice  
and but uh you know we don't even have vehicles that will do that  
they they have to get uh a truck of sand and uh uh four or five [laborers] up there just spreading it by hand   well and then to make matters worse it destroys your vehicles too  
yeah  
they well we they do that down here too  
they mix the salt in with the sand  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've  
no  
i'm   a dog lover myself  
i guess it would be  
oh  
oh wasn't that nice of him  
uh  
i have uh a a chowperd myself  
a chowperd  
well she's part chow and part shepherd  
uh_huh  
but she's the best   the best of both breeds  
well june   is medium sized  
but she is scared to death of thunder storms  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that must be nice  
uh_huh  
well good  
no  
well   now you know it sounds like you ought to be in a condo down in miami beach somewhere   or better yet down around saint petersburg florida  
uh_huh  
that's what i call home  
i lived there for ten years  
uh_huh  
yep  
well i lived there in the seventies  
and uh i i love it  
i have two sons still living down there  
oh uh_huh  
well that's   that's   why i was suggesting uh that saint petersburg is got got to be the finest weather in the world  
oh i i loved it down there  
course you could tell always tell which were the the   and which ones were the [snowbirds]  
yeah  
the [snowbirds] were the  
and good  
well well today uh when i got up it was twenty nine degrees  
yes  
and it managed to get up to about fifty this afternoon  
but it's been cloudy overcast and threatening rain all day  
and we've also had extremely strong winds fifteen to twenty miles an hour   for the day  
is that right  
oh really  
we had one of those two days ago   but not uh but uh no rain at all yesterday and uh no rain today  
thanks a lot  
couldn't you send us some nice weather  
oh was it  
well the one thing's for sure we can always discuss the weather  
how some ever we can't do very much to change it  
what's that  
oh yes  
well that's about the way our weather is here also  
and i grew up in saint louis  
and saint louis was much the same  
no  
it's not  
this is uh about uh ten degrees cooler than usual  
but about a week ago we were up to eighty and eighty five degrees  
no  
no  
it uh it [fluctuates] from one extreme to the other it seems  
i'm sure i didn't  
i was ready to turn on the air conditioning  
it no it really was extremely warm  
it only got down to about sixty five in the evening  
we had about three or four days of that  
and then all of a sudden a cold front came down and uh temperatures dropped thirty degrees in a very short length of time  
and uh it has gone down gradually each day  
this morning it was twenty nine  
yesterday it was about thirty two  
uh   cars were scraping ice off their cars this morning if they've been sitting out all night  
so it   it really wasn't too wasn't too pleasant  
oh i hope   not  
well they are predicting rain and thunderstorms  
and i wouldn't be a bit surprised by what we would not be getting the same weather you had  
uh yeah  
yes  
warm rain  
well of course by the time it gets up here it may run into a cold front coming down from canada  
yes  
yes  
we had uh a week ago they had golf ball size hail coming down in one part of the uh of the city of dayton itself  
and uh then we just had about an inch and a half or two inches of rain in less than an hour  
it was just coming down by the [bucketfulls] and a great deal of lightning  
so   it it wasn't uh it wasn't conditions to being out in it  
and i had just gotten home  
we had a lot of tornado warnings also  
and i had gotten home shortly before that uh the rain started  
so uh i felt a little more secure that i was at home rather than having to be out driving in it  
is that right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh they  
that was very very fortunate for them because that could have really been disastrous  
well of course this is tornado season uh  
in to uh  
we have many tornadoes [spawned] in this area and northern indiana  
now we're in the southwestern part of uh ohio   just forty miles north due north of cincinnati  
and uh but uh northern indiana has many tornadoes come [roaring] across  
and we get the backlash off of it if not the part of the tornado itself  
so uh we you know we get a lot of bad weather in this area  
but of course you're supposed to be the sun belt  
and i do know that you get some freezing weather down there on occasion  
um hum  
right  
yes  
i was going to say that it does make a difference when you're not accustomed to uh   having to   drive in it  
right  
right  
and  
right  
um hum  
right  
well uh well here what they do and i i [contend] that it's certainly not the right thing to do they spread salt  
and of course the salt does melt the ice  
but then what melts immediately freezes and becomes uh a perpetual problem  
oh it sure does do that  
well sand and uh  
but i have learned to do is uh now that i am alone is uh to carry bags of salt in the trunk of my car  
um not only in case i need it for that for traction but for additional weight   in the   back of the car  
and then of course kitty litter is also excellent for that i don't know whether you've ever thought in terms of   that  
but  
yeah  
well   well the dogs don't use litter  
but kitty litter is excellent for uh getting under the wheels of cars  
and what have you and giving you traction  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it uh works out uh really quite well  
course i have i have a dog also  
my son brought me a little [lhasa] [apso] uh for my birthday last thanksgiving  
he brought him from dallas  
he  
yes  
that uh  
he just thought i had been without a dog uh for three years  
that was long enough  
he he had  
oh a what  
now that one i'm not familiar with  
uh okay  
okay  
that makes sense then  
i believe  
yes  
right  
well i've always had big dogs before never had a little dog before  
and  
yes  
well   oh well i had a german [shorthair] that was frightened of storms  
the minute it would begin to storm he would just [panic]  
and uh i had to push him down when he was fourteen  
and two months later i had to put my yellow lab down   because he had leukemia  
and uh then uh then there was no point in having all my acreage  
i had four and a half acres with game [preserve] on three sides  
oh well it was great  
i loved it  
but then i didn't need all that anymore so i finally sold that  
and i'm in a fair size condo  
and i have a nice size patio  
and uh so this little dog has plenty of room to run  
yeah  
and he is a a [cutie]  
and uh but i've never had a dog i had to keep taking to the [groomer's] to have [groomed] either  
and it's  
is that right  
oh is that right  
oh well i was there once way way back in nineteen sixty i think for just a week's vacation  
but uh i that's about the only time i've been to florida except passing through on the way to someplace else  
but uh  
uh_huh  
um hum  
well uh uh most of my friends do spend a lot of time down in florida  
but uh i have just that's just not been my thing  
we used to always head west or head north  
now that i'm alone why uh i uh prefer to travel overseas if i'm going anywhere  
and uh course there too you never know what the weather's going to be  
when you   start getting over   to  
oh is that right  
um  
yeah  
oh is that right  
both  
yes  
uh_huh  
well are you summit or are you uh   spring creek  
oh this is fun  
what building are you in  
oh i'm building two  
at least we found something different  
that's  
i've never had a call  
no  
isn't that funny  
i usually get some place  
i got a woman in new jersey the last time i called i think  
that is funny  
so  
the weather in building two is cold  
it's been cold  
it's been cold in the building  
outside the building it's not bad  
typical t i or t i  
listen i got me doing it  
typical texas spring  
are you a native to texas  
from  
so what do you think of the texas weather  
how long have you been here  
oh okay  
you you you know about august then  
okay  
there's no surprises left  
uh_huh  
good idea  
real good idea  
we went to alaska  
that is really nice  
it is so cool you wear a jacket you know  
yeah  
or keep one handy   because it's it rains a lot in alaska  
uh it  
they call it their liquid gold  
but it you know  
you get sunshine  
and it's lovely  
and then it rains just enough to keep everything nice   and moist and very green   and blooming  
oh my goodness it's pretty  
well texas isn't bad  
not in the spring  
spring is nice  
right  
oh we always   we always do though  
uh it  
that's right  
and   then we get all that heat  
right  
oh really  
oh you got into that bad stuff  
isn't that strange  
i think that's one of the strange strange things  
and you very seldom see it though  
so it had come it's a drop of water that had come through quite a few rain clouds apparently  
is that correct  
i think i think   that's  
it's not on the ground  
but   in the clouds it is  
i was dumb  
i was in um florida for a week on business  
and i had called back to the house  
i stayed the weekend  
and i called back to the house  
my housekeeper was baby sitting my cats and dogs said something to the effect of now we've made the national news don't get upset and don't worry  
it's in garland where all the bad weather is  
i said okay you know  
and i watched the news  
and i thought ha ha that's garland that's not plano  
i don't have anything to worry about  
i was on the plane heading back to dallas before it [dawned] on me stupid you own property in garland  
felt so dumb  
finally i got home and found out my property was okay  
there was no problem with it  
but i guess you just tend to think of of where your house is   you know and nothing else  
oh oh i see  
oh okay  
the house that house   that i bought is close to a firewheel golf course  
just going to be blocks off of that new highway one ninety that's going through  
oh really  
is that a nice area  
well  
the house that   the house that i bought was really really nice  
yes  
yes  
really really nice home very pretty uh  
no  
i'm going to lease it  
it's it's investment property  
but it is really it's a very nice place  
uh i i would [cheerfully] live there  
of course it's not my home  
and i've lived in my home in well almost ten years  
and you know i've got everything just exactly like i want it  
but if i were to live some place else it certainly meets my standards  
it's a nice house  
no  
it's not  
it's off the golf course  
and i'll be honest with you  
i'm going to have to get a map to figure out exactly where is the golf course versus where my house is  
but it's in the [estates] that [adjoin] it  
yes  
it is  
yeah  
that one nine   that one ninety is just going to be the the [outermost] loop around  
right  
just continue to do that  
where are you from in california  
san diego  
i've been through all of that  
uh there is an area beyond thousand oaks north of los angeles that is really an eerie strange looking area   with boulders  
i  
they're not really hills  
they're more like just huge boulders with very little vegetation  
uh   well you know it may be a little bit more inland  
that is one of the strangest areas i have ever seen  
uh i had to go up to t i on business   a couple years ago  
and we went up that coastline  
and i was just amazed how unusual that looks  
here hang on just a second  
i've got a los angeles map  
let me just quick  
valley  
yes  
beyond thousand oaks  
you don't think that's strange looking  
oh okay  
maybe maybe i'm used to texas  
the elevation is extremely high  
it's got [curving] roads on it  
but but the  
it's just a strange landscape  
there's very little vegetation  
right  
it's a  
maybe it's a place i went to  
it was far extreme thought we'd never find the place  
it was interesting   because we went out the [ventura] highway to thousand oaks and on up   through that way  
oh it's green sometime  
well it doesn't stay green you know  
the really  
and in all honesty  
i know this sounds like a texas story  
all honesty you haven't seen the hottest of summers if you've only been here five years  
we haven't had a   really bad one  
oh  
it may be eighty two because we bought our house in eighty one  
and we built a pool in eighty two  
do you live in plano or work in plano or both  
both  
are you a t i  
are you at work right now  
so am i  
in building which building  
i'm i'm   i'm spring creek  
i'm building uh one  
not like that  
neither have i  
right  
that's funny  
so how's the how's the weather in building two  
no  
no  
i'm i'm a transplant  
from california  
not as nice as california  
oh five years now  
i've been here long pretty long  
so  
yes  
oh i've been through five of those  
right  
right  
a lot of people try to leave the state for a couple of weeks in august for you know  
if they're going to go out of state for vacation   that's the time to go  
yeah  
we went up to wyoming this last uh summer during that time  
and it was like you know eighty degrees up there  
it was beautiful  
nice to get out of texas for a while  
well that's that's the even even farther away  
even in the summer time huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is that right  
um  
green  
um  
right  
no  
no  
right  
i have to think every year to try to remember what it was what's it supposed to like this time of year  
yeah  
because march we usually get a lot of rain in march you know  
it'll seem the news the harold taft you know on the local news  
march we typically get a lot of rain  
and we've had this many inches  
and you know we're right on target you know  
and just seem like we were getting a lot of rain in march  
but i  
it's hard to remember twelve months ago what it was like  
yeah  
i wish i just wish it wouldn't come all at once  
and and   right  
well it's just that you know  
when it rains it rains  
in california you get these nice lovely rains you know nothing really you know like [downpours] like you have here  
the other day we had some hail the biggest hail i've ever seen in texas  
yeah  
i live in garland  
yeah  
we got hail the size of [marbles]  
i mean just so noisy hitting the house  
and the glass on the windows  
it didn't break anything  
but we went out there afterwards  
and there's ice balls the size of [marbles] all over our lawn  
i know i  
you pick them up you know  
and they're perfectly round  
and i go gee how did they form you know so perfect like that  
right  
right  
i've seen hail you know  
but usually the size you know of uh tiny tiny [pebbles]  
you know really small you know  
but this was uh really large  
uh i don't know how hail is formed   to tell you the truth  
you don't think it's cold enough you know to  
right  
must be  
i guess  
and then i think you know all that falling would warm it up and melt it  
but maybe that's what rounds it i don't know but [tumbling]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
right  
right  
and close to that what's called duck creek that runs through part of garland that's the part that always seems to get hardest hit when there's there's the hard rain  
the creek [overflows]  
and a lot of houses a lot of houses around that creek seem to to get flooded  
the streets and stuff around that area   get a lot of flooding  
okay  
right  
that's where i live close to that  
yeah  
uh uh not quite  
i don't live in that firewheel division  
but i live close by there   in north far north garland  
yeah  
they're supposed to  
it's getting built up you know with more new new shopping centers and things you know  
it's a fairly new area  
yeah  
and uh and they're supposed to be building a mall somewhere close by by the next by ninety three or ninety four or something  
a brand new mall   not too far away from that area  
so  
it'd be nice  
uh_huh  
in the firewheel [estates] there whatever  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but you're not living there right now  
oh i see  
i see  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's a nice area  
is it on the golf course  
is that right  
yeah  
right  
right  
well that's a nice area  
that really is a nice area  
when they get that highway finished you can hop on that and get anywhere you need to go   fairly quick  
right  
another belt line just uh farther out  
right  
right  
right  
southern california  
i've lived in san diego for six years when i was a younger and l a area  
and my parents live in anaheim right now  
lived up north of los angeles in thousand oaks area where the cowboys have their training camp or used to anyway  
yeah  
huh  
i'm not familiar with what  
is it along the coast or   or inland  
um  
out there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
they have some pretty nice weather out there in los angeles   valley  
okay  
i know where that is  
i know where valley is  
i've been out there before  
sure  
i didn't notice anything strange i guess   about it  
maybe texas the way  
uh_huh  
huh  
i didn't i don't remember seeing that part of it  
i know valley  
yeah  
it's just a suburb of l a  
and they've built some new highways out to that area and things lately  
people can get in and out of l a easier  
huh  
yeah  
sounds interesting  
right  
right  
right  
i i know exactly that area  
it's a nice area out there  
i love thousand oaks  
uh texas i don't know  
thing things  
you just have less a variety i guess  
i think i don't think it's quite as green you know  
it's green with all the trees and things out here  
but it's just  
yeah  
but it's just you know  
i don't know  
right  
yeah  
i missed that one of eighty or eighty two or eighty one   that had the heat wave  
all right  
okay  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well right now we're we're having the little bit of spring that we have  
we don't have many seasons here  
it goes from winter to summer usually  
spring usually consists of a lot of rain especially thunderstorms  
we've got we had one of those blow through tonight  
and i think we got the same thing in the forecast for the next two or three days  
so  
it's gotten up to uh ninety a couple of times  
but basically it's been in the low seventies and eighties  
yeah  
it's not really been too bad  
usually it [sneaks] on into the nineties a little earlier  
yeah  
quite a bit  
well the season is just about over for that  
uh in fact we drove down to corpus last week  
and uh there were still some paint brushes and bluebonnets down along the way  
drove through san antonio  
and i spoke to somebody else this morning from san antonio  
and were  
they had  
and we came back  
what day was that sunday evening  
and they had a big [rainstorm] come through there part of the same thing we're getting now i guess  
yeah  
that's the second or third year in a row that we've had a real rainy spring  
we had a pretty rainy fall last year as well  
um we've had a few down here but not anything like kansas  
but this is the season for that  
they do they do pop up occasionally   around here  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm from here originally  
so when it's july and august i'm pretty well used to the   hundred degree temperatures  
the biggest problem with with the weather and the rain in this area is the soil  
it's that black clay soil  
you know it's not sandy like most of the state is  
so it doesn't absorb the water real well  
you know once it rains a little bit it's it's filled up and everything else just runs off  
you know  
yeah  
yeah  
we have it  
especially as rainy as it's been in the last couple of years  
and there's a section in south dallas that's had a whole lot of flooding problems because of the rain  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i guess i'd prefer that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's pretty dry  
we get some when it's this rainy  
but it's nothing like i guess san antonio summers  
it's nothing like houston  
or east texas is a little more humid  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
probably the pacific breezes make a lot of difference  
that's nice  
well my wife's originally from virginia  
and we lived there for about nine months  
and that was a real change for me  
um parts do  
we we're over in the western edge in the mountains  
and they have of course some pretty severe storms winter storms snow and that type of thing  
but they're so good about clearing the roads that you know it doesn't usually bother you very much  
yeah  
their springs and summers are pretty mild too  
it never gets real real hot  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well as we were talking the weather came on  
and there's a flash flood watch and   more rain for the next three or four days  
yeah  
maybe we can send you some  
i think that will do it  
well i enjoyed talking with you lisa  
uh_huh  
you too  
bye  
okay  
well i can go ahead and start and tell you mine  
and  
we're from san antonio  
and that's where i grew up  
so i was used to the heat out here right now  
gosh it gets to about seventies high seventies  
and it gets very cold at night  
and monterey it's um right on the coast  
and i don't know if your familiar with california coastline  
but we're we're about two hours about a two hour drive south of san francisco  
and it's uh really nice  
it's a big area for people to come from the different uh countries mostly like japan germany and england  
and they usually go to carmel and vacation on the beaches  
so it's it's pretty nice uh year round  
but uh cool always cool in the evenings and warm warm in the summer  
but it's stays pretty cold even uh during the winter for as nice as it is  
and um we usually get a fog uh right about i guess about four o'clock  
and it kind of rolls in over the coast  
and uh then it usually breaks back off again the next morning  
and if you go just a little bit ways in i'd say about a fifteen minute drive in towards [salinas]   uh the weather completely changes  
and it gets very hot and dry  
and the fog never makes it that far  
but along here it's uh very very different from the texas type weather  
what's it like down there  
oh really  
well at least you've got some  
uh_huh  
oh well that's good  
uh_huh  
have y'all been having any heat waves or like the ninety degree  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
women that's good for this time of year  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so do y'all have many bluebonnets and stuff this year  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i miss that  
oh oh well that's real nice because i can remember two years ago that in about february the hundred degree weather started in san antonio and just continued  
at least y'all are getting some rain up in dallas  
i'm glad to hear that  
uh_huh  
y'all weren't getting any of the strings of the tornadoes and stuff were you  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i really don't miss all the heat there  
i'm getting acclimated to have the cool evenings  
so we get a bit of a relief  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh is that what dallas is  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
san antonio has that same problem when the rains come  
it's it's a complete mess everything floods all the under passes  
i didn't realize that dallas had that same problem  
uh_huh  
well we could use some rain up here  
we're like in the bottom of the fourth year of drought   up here  
and they had a pretty good early spring  
and we got quite a bit of rain  
but it wasn't enough to offset what they lost over the last four years  
and uh so they're still talking water rationing this summer  
so it would seem strange because in san antonio  
we had lived out um west of san antonio in castroville  
and the water in [medina] lake and that area was really going down that they were considering that they might have to do water rationing  
and i thought oh gee i'm so glad to get out of there and get up here to the california pacific coast where it rains and everything has flowers  
and there's no problem with water  
and then i came here and found out they were in the you know four year [draught]  
so i said well gee this is pretty much like texas  
and it pretty much is in the middle of summer  
they have rolling hills around here  
but   um they turn to golden dead grass   for the majority of the summer just because there is no water to keep them green  
but um it's a really nice area  
it's just it's just such a change from uh texas because i had grown up with uh the heat  
and used to essentially  
like you said you have the cold winter  
and then you have the hot summer spring  
and uh to come here it's kind of the temperate weather all year round  
it's kind of like uh spring i guess if you year round except  
and then in the winter  
and then it seems sort of like a san antonio early winter or fall   year round  
so it seems like we only have two springs which is or two seasons  
and that would be spring and fall  
we never really get any of the other ones  
but it's a really nice uh change of pace  
yeah  
to the heat  
i really don't miss the heat  
um we do a lot of you know  
when you do a lot of outside like running and stuff it's just so much easier   up here  
and you don't have to worry about the high humidity  
does dallas get high humidity  
or is it pretty dry  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it seems like san antonio is increasing in humidity over the years  
because i had lived in san antonio for about twenty years  
and it just seemed like every year it just got more and more humid more and more humid   and here it's uh well it's right by the ocean  
but um it's not the same as corpus  
corpus you get that humid salty feeling in the air  
but here um well the water is extremely cold up here  
you can lay on the beach all you want  
but if you want to go wind suffering or diving or swimming you have to wear a wet suit   and a thick wet suit at that because it's just extremely cold  
and i  
for some reason because of the cold uh ocean uh water the air is always cool  
it's never humid or sticky or salty feeling  
so i really like that about this area  
and uh we just hadn't expected it  
we were used to what uh gulf coast weather was like   when we came here to pacific coast weather  
it's just completely different  
and it's much nicer  
uh_huh  
it does  
and the air doesn't feel anything like it does along the gulf coast region  
but you um  
but we like it  
so it's a nice change  
so we'll be here a couple of years  
and we thought well we'll take advantage of it and see what all the pacific coast is like  
so it's been good  
oh i imagine  
virginia i imagine gets real humid doesn't it  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
not like texas where everything comes to a stand still  
uh_huh  
i'll have to try that out because i had heard that north carolina was sort of like that  
and uh i've just never really been in that region of the country  
and i guess i'm going to have to try that area sometime and see what it's like  
because a lot of people that are from that north carolina region really like it  
and uh they get the snow  
but they said it doesn't really get messy  
and it doesn't really hang around that long  
so they the people i know that are from there uh they always miss it  
and they want to go back  
nothing seems quite as good  
but anyway well  
oh gee whiz  
oh gosh  
well i hope it moves up this way  
but i'm sure it won't  
yeah  
because we could sure use it  
well you think that takes care of the time and  
okay  
well i sure appreciate hearing how things are going in texas and uh  
yeah  
good luck to you  
okay  
we'll see you  
bye  
well i'm talking to you from dallas  
what part of the country are you in  
well we can uh complain together or swear we can complain together about the humidity  
no  
i don't think so  
i wouldn't think  
yeah  
i  
far north dallas  
yeah  
about a half a mile from plano  
so we're in the  
yeah  
it's been very very rainy i know  
oh  
um i don't know i haven't lived here let's see we lived out of state in wisconsin  
and we just  
we lived here ten years ago  
and when we first lived here we we were in garland east richardson   and um doesn't seem like it was quite as humid  
and i don't know then we went we lived in uh madison wisconsin for five years um for my husband's schooling graduate schooling  
and it just  
it's a lot cleaner up there  
but um it's a lot colder too  
uh his job he came back to start work again for a different company  
so said   here here's a  
here we are again  
it just seems a little more humid than it  
i don't ever remember of course you know you only remember the good stuff  
but um i just don't remember the humidity  
this much rain and this much humidity  
uh yeah  
they are  
actually though it was a lot [rainier] here in the winter uh we came back last august  
it's just a lot [rainier] than i remember it all through the seasons you know  
um  
yeah  
and i think it's because it's just getting more crowded and more polluted  
i really do think that's part of it  
um uh in in wisconsin and minnesota when they get winters it's um the winters are bad but not what you hear about  
it's just like down here when you hear when people here think it's a hundred and six people up north think it's a hundred and sixty down here  

i'm making that up  
you know when it's only like ninety five  
um it's just like up there when you hear it's forty below it's probably really only five below  
um and it's so dry that it's it's like going to  
well probably what arizona used to be like you know   it's just dry and cool  
so it's not it's not what you think it is  
um no  
there have been times though when it gets so [frigid] that you   you can't stand it  
where did you move here from  
well there  
you could talk about that that's   that's a strange state for  
oh there you go okay  
this is very true  
yeah  
right  
well actually the summers up there we thought were the most beautiful time of the year  
um in terms of colorado i know my husband likes to camp and backpack and all the stuff i don't like um  
but i'd  
used to go on  
i worked for a mortgage company in wisconsin  
and i did a lot of business in uh um well denver  
and that's that's probably one of the stranger things when you see the air inversions   and then you go into the mountains  
and it's snowy  
and uh it just was a very mixed bag in terms of colorado  
isn't that strange  
yeah  
and then things like  
are there tornadoes in colorado yes or i don't  
yeah  
the mountains  
yeah  
even i mean  
i'm originally from pittsburgh pennsylvania  
and i can tell you that um they've even had  
in eastern ohio and western pennsylvania they've even had i'm going to say mini tornadoes for lack of a better word  
and and that's just a part of the country that it's rolling hillside  
that was unheard of you know twenty years ago  
um so i don't know what's happening if it's you know we are the greenhouse i don't really know  
it's just you know   it's definitely not as um  
i know i associate the pollution with weather in general  
so i guess one thing we do miss is that's a smaller town  
and it it was  
it just seemed a little bit more pleasant in terms of the atmosphere you know  
you too  
okay  
bye bye  
oh boy this is going to be tough i'm in plano  
exactly  
i guess the weather hasn't been too different between us  

what part of dallas are you from  
oh north dallas  
well jeez  
well then you've been getting quite a bit of rain also  
how about that  
how does it compare to the years past  
uh_huh  
oh  
huh  
well what brought you guys down to texas then  
how about that  
that's great  
right  
well   definitely i'm sure the winters are more mild here  
uh_huh  
sure  
it seems that progressive  
i've been down here five years just over five years now that every spring and summer seems to get more and more rainy  
huh  
a hundred and sixty  
uh_huh  
right  
sure  
right  
uh_huh  
true  
colorado  
oh sure i i'm uh   i'm very familiar  
my grandparents and all my relatives are from wisconsin  
so i'm uh quite familiar with how it is up there  
and if you  
kind of interesting uh the people down here typically don't think it gets above you know fifty degrees  
and it's always snow you know  
but uh  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
my parents just live uh thirty miles south of denver  
and it can be sunny and and no problem in denver  
and they'll be having snow  
so it's pretty amazing it can be that drastic in just a short distance  
uh it's getting to be more and more of a possibility  
it used to be no problem just because it was such a a rugged terrain and with trees everywhere  
but now   as they start to clear more things out  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
me neither  
but  
sure  
sure  
well it's been good talking to you  
good bye  
good bye  
well the last three days it's been pretty rainy  
we went to the beach  
and uh it started uh let's see around four o'clock  
and uh it had thunder and lightning  
it was and then you know it was just overcast and rainy for uh the next two or three days straight  
how about yours  
uh_huh  
you're from virginia  
oh from texas  
i heard they had some flooding down there  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
well the last couple of years we're um we're over as far as our rainfall goes  
before that it was really dry  
and uh   everybody was you know talking about rationing water and doing this and doing that  
not really rationing water but just cutting down  
and uh   it seems like uh you know the weather pattern is just shifting and uh that uh jet stream is moving uh into our area north carolina   and across  
but it's uh changing [latitude]  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
it's finally cleared up  
it's just now still a little overcast  
but the but the sun has finally started [popping] out  
oh yeah  
well right now as a matter of fact i'm fixing to go play tennis  
it's um i'd say it's at least seventy nine eighty well about seventy eight seventy nine degrees  
um actually the uh the wind normally blows let's see let me think about this south southwest  
yeah  
uh but but actually our i guess our weather pattern comes from the uh blows north east  
yeah  
you're right  
it blows north east  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how how far are you from houston  
oh i see  
so you so you don't you don't get anything off the gulf uh immediately from from the ocean  
uh_huh  
um well we've had some you know pretty pretty rough winds  
oh uh bangladesh boy they they caught it bad  
but we'll probably have our share of the hurricanes  
i know uh hurricane [hugo]  
you probably heard about that  
uh last year  
yeah  
and they're still uh rebuilding from that storm  
and so the the beaches here just get really beat up  
and it usually comes this way  
it comes up from uh miami   uh down around or you know around the bahamas  
and it usually travels uh northwest  
and uh it'll go up the coast quite a ways before it finally hits  
um let's see  
two years ago we had one  
as a matter of fact it went within a mile of my house  
and um it was real odd  
the [barometric] pressure drops during a tornado  
and our uh fire alarm went off  
so of course that woke everybody up  
and we knew what was going on to uh you know go downstairs or go into the bathroom and uh take cover  
but uh we get uh  
yeah  
we're we're uh we get our share of tornados  
no  
huh_uh  
we're about two hours from the beach  
so uh you know it's uh [barometric] pressure i believe is higher in the mountains  
and we we catch some winds you know a few winds coming off of them i think  
but uh let's see  
you all just had a tornado uh over close to oklahoma and texas  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
oh did it  
um  
um boy i would have like to have heard that  
that would have been something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i used to live in amarillo originally  
so i'm  
oh yeah  
we used to sit out uh especially in [borger] we use to sit out on our back uh picnic table and watch them come out of the sky through the [funnel] clouds  
and the only time we got worried is if it hit the ground  
but otherwise we'd just sit back there and watch them go in and out of those clouds  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you'd be amazed at how clear the sky was  
but the clouds are just really uh uh rolling   kind of just real [pillowy] i guess  
oh well i was in that uh big tornado went through wichita falls  
and uh the sky  
i mean we were right in the middle of it when i mean signs and telephone poles were dropping all around us  
and a whole roof of a restaurant came off  
and uh it was a eerie uh a real eerie blue green color  
and the lightning was almost continuous just uh you know as if you put your hand on one of those electric uh things that causes lightning  
uh i think it was called the storm  
but um the the whole sky was full of that eerie blue green uh lightning  
um  
uh_huh  
we haven't got that much rain  
but uh when it rains it's it's been [downpouring]  
you too  
okay  
thanks  
bye  
okay  
how's the weather been out there  
uh_huh  

it's pretty normal for this year you know uh  
they have tornados about once a week  
and it rains about every three days  
the last two years before they've had record rainfall  
by this time of the year they'd had enough rainfall for the whole year  
but this time we're only um i think maybe five inches ahead of of uh normal  
so it's not been bad at all  
i'm from texas  
uh_huh  
and uh  
um they had some flooding in houston the other day real real bad   over i think it was over the weekend  
the [radar] just looked nasty   with a bunch of red [splotches] all across it  
yeah  
that's   that's right  
there  
uh_huh  
so you get a lot more rain that way  
uh_huh  
brings in that cold air  
and mixes it with the with the warm air coming off the atlantic ocean  
that's what  
uh_huh  
is the temperature like sixties to eighties there too  
or  
um do you get east winds a lot of the time from the ocean  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's the way it does here most of the time  
but uh sometimes it just comes straight from the north  
and then it and then it doesn't [veer] off to the east until you get down to houston or or uh maybe mid mid texas  
depends on how strong the cold [fronts] are  
um well uh richardson's a suburb of dallas  
hardly ever unless there's a hurricane or something like that  
well uh it's kind of early  
i was going to say the weather man on on uh one of our stations was talking about the way that the weather's doing now is like tropical weather  
and he was afraid if it kept doing that that they'd have early hurricanes this year  
yeah  
kind of wiped them  
uh_huh  
wiped everything out  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do do you get many tornados this time of year  
or  
um  
huh  
right  
uh_huh  
and uh the uh uh  
you you aren't in the mountains or anything like that are you  
there's just there's just hills  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they they had a lot of them  
they had a a huge one that was on um inside edition the other night in uh the southern part of kansas  
um they took a bunch of film of it  
it uh kind of chased them  
it was a few hundred yards away  
and it chased them under an [underpass]  
and it was tossing around the car   right before it got there  
and it tore up the people inside the car  
and the the camera man on the news crew held the camera out  
they were hiding underneath the [underpass]  
and he held the camera out as the tornado went by  
and the the wind you know it had a mike on it  
and the wind and everything was incredible  
i'm surprised they didn't they because we saw it on the news a couple of days in a row  
and that and you know and that was way up in kansas  
but over here it's a lot it's a big thing about tornados and people that get pictures of them  
yeah  
you can really see them well there  
yeah  
it's really strange the way it does that  
especially the way it starts  
it starts you know just like a little swirl in the clouds  
and and uh then it just grows from there  
and it and and usually it's not even raining when it starts  
it's just  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and they're black  
and sometimes they're even green colored  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's it  
wow  
and that's about that's what we get this time of year just all the way sometimes all the way through june  
the last especially the last two years it's rained uh what i think it rained nine inches in in one one of the [junes] the last two years  
and this year  
we usually get about five inches in may  
and it's it's over that  
uh_huh  
all right  
well i hope you have good weather the rest of the summer  
have fun playing tennis  
bye bye  
okay  
you want to get a start  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh great  
great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think you are i think you are earlier than we are as a rule aren't you  
your your your growing summer starts a lot earlier than ours  
uh_huh  
see that is quite a bit  
we are just beginning  
people are have got their gardens in a lot of them now  
we could still have a frost  
uh_huh  
uh probably not  
but we have had we have had a frost as late as as in june  
early june  
so but we have also had nice weather an unusually uh nice spring  
it is almost like an early summer for us  
uh_huh  
we could use a little more rain   i believe  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
if it could just be spread out a little bit  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it has really been nice here uh  
we are supposed to have some rain this weekend  
but i don't know if we'll get it or not  
a lot of times in our area the weather forecast has missed us  
the the weather they forecast for our area seems to go right past us and misses us just by well not too many miles  
yes  
uh_huh  
we have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we have quite a few farmers  
we we live out in the country  
we are on a farm  
but we are not a farming   person  
uh we have a garden  
but uh but we are not farmers  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
they get burnt off  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well and that makes it bad too because uh when more with water being at a premium  
i know our aunt in california  
they they have really been [rationed] on their water  
and it makes it real hard to have a yard or uh or anything like that a their garden their farms  
their farmers i guess are hurting because of that also  
yeah  
yeah  
well they are not allowed to water  
so what do you do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but your humidity is different though than ours i think  
and it makes a a bit of a difference too  
oh i don't know  
i think our humidity is higher normally than what it is in texas  
i could be wrong  
i do not know for sure either  
but it always seems well it just felt different like when we were in texas  
it had a different feel to it  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it could be  
i know my brother's home has been flooded a couple of times uh  
well there is a lake not far  
but it is more run off   from surrounding you know areas and that  
and uh he is just in an area where it is just low enough that it's you know it it collects there  
and uh he has had a couple of inches in his house several times  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
because of that  
uh_huh  
we are fortunate or uh we are on a where we are we get flooded it floods below us   behind us  
but we are uh we are high enough that our house itself we never you know have had any problem like that  
yeah  
it is an old farm house  
and uh we really like it here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it is nice down there  
i i i liked it when we visited there  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that is the best time to go  
yeah  
and usually it has been when we have gone it has been nice  
it has been hot  
but it is it is hot to me in the wintertime down there  
you know  
but it is nice  
it is a it is really a nice area  
oh really  
oh  
oh good heavens  
not me  
i avoid the sun  
yeah  
it takes me about four and a half hours to do to mow our grass  
and i try to cover up when i do the lawn  
yeah  
well i have had a little a couple of problems  
and uh i decided it is not worth it  
i i like to get tan in the summer time because i think you look healthier  
and uh we are just crazy  
uh_huh  
is that right  
it   it just makes your skin more [leathery]  
it uh   it  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
well the [elasticity] of your skin the [collagen] or whatever they call it  
they say it destroys a lot of that  
and you lose a lot of that  
so uh  
yeah  
but uh but we have really had nice  
the weather  
i can't complain  
we have really had really good weather of late  
and when it has rained it it's been a good soaking rain  
and uh it has just been a really nice spring  
oh  
oh that is great  
how long will they be there  
uh_huh  
well that is great  
well i hope the weather stays real good for them and   and uh that you have a good visit and everything  
and i hope your garden does good  
and so okay  
well it was really nice talking to you  
and uh good luck in your this [venture]  
it is uh like i said  
it has been real interesting  
so i hope you enjoy it as much as i have been enjoying it  
yeah  
i forget to  
the day goes by  
and i forget to make a call usually  
great  
great  
okay  
uh bye bye  
certainly  
uh the weather here is warm  
and it has been sort of raining on and off  
and uh i am an avid gardener  
so i measure the rain in our rain gauge on a on a regular basis  
so   i can can avoid wasting money on watering  
and uh but it has been threatening to rain for the last couple of days  
and it has not   really which is a bit of a disappointment  
but   it is very warm here which is typical for this part of the time of the year  
how about  
it starts in uh march as a rule  
really  
this late  
could you have snow  
oh well   we do not have that problem  
oh that is nice  
uh well   we will be glad i will be glad to give you some of ours  
usually we get it in in great quantities in   april and may  
and then it stops for three months  
right  
uh_huh  
are you in an agricultural area  
well i know the i know the weather is very important for people who make their living off of   off of the land  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
well you know there are some disadvantages to being down south  
and that is it gets so hot that you know a lot of things die during the summer from the heat  
they they really do  
and you have to be very careful to make sure you keep everything watered  
yeah  
well my parents are now in san diego  
and and they've got [pebbles] in their yard because they can't   almost nobody there has has lawns  
yeah  
uh it is very it is very rough on them  
so  
actually i think i think it is pretty moderate here in dallas  
because the the summers are extremely hot  
um what is your humidity like  
uh i do not know what what it is percentage wise  
but i  
yeah  
it is it is drier in dallas than it is in houston or san antonio   or even austin   which is further south  
but it is not dry  
and and i have lived here for many years  
and i think it has gotten more humid over the years  
where the water is coming from i don't know  
oh does he live near the lake  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
that is that is a problem uh  
they tell you when you are looking for a house or or or buying land to build on   to be very careful and check the [drainage]   because uh   it is it is [deceptive]  
and uh i know exactly what you mean  
uh_huh  
oh well that is fortunate  
uh_huh  
well i i like it i like it here  
uh i i grew up here  
i have lived other places  
and and   but i i did grow up here  
and this is very much home for me  
and  
i hope you visited during the winter  
one of my one of my theories is that you always go to warm places during the winter  
and   you go to cold cool places that well i go to cool places during the summer if i can anyway  
oh sure  
i mean  
i i had a friend from england visit once at christmas  
and we could not get her out of the what she called the back garden   because she wanted to go back with a sunburn  
and she went back to the north of england with a sunburn  
well yeah  
basically i do too  
well i that that is really healthier frankly  
uh_huh  
that  
but you you know it is interesting because you get out in that sun an awful lot  
now my sister is a a sun [fiend]  
and uh she is five years younger than me  
she is more [wrinkled]  
yeah  
and i think that is why  
exactly  
i think it burns off the  
i don't know the the the theory the scientific principle  
but it burns something off the natural oils   or something like that  
yes  
yes  
uh that sounds like a good that sounds like the right theory  
good  
well that is great  
it has been it has been very nice here too  
and i hope it continues because my parents are coming to visit this evening  
and i want them to have   nice weather for their visit   instead of driving around in the rain  
uh probably four or five days  
well thank you  
thanks  
yeah  
and the same to you  
a pleasure  
i am sure i will  
in in fact if i had not been preparing for this the out of town visitors i probably would have been making some phone calls in the last couple   of days  
well i am glad you have broken the ice with me because now i will i will start doing it  
okay  
well thanks jean  
bye bye  
okay  
it's real dry up here  
yeah  
we need rain really bad  
all the farmers you know  

well it's good for hay  
you know all the farmers got their first cut of hay and everything  
but they're going to need some you know rain to get the second cut  
i i'm working for a lady who has a strawberry field  
and if we don't have rain she's going to lose a lot of money  
oh  
oh my  
it's usually dry down there isn't it  
uh_huh  
oh i hope they come   this way  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh my  
now see every everyone up here with their gardens they're not going to have much of a garden this year because it's so dry  
yeah  
really  
well gee  
uh does is california getting rain then  
out of the gulf  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
oh well see now we need  
we could use two days straight of rain  
it's really [drying] up up here  
does it  
i was telling everyone hang your clothes out on the line  
and it's surely going to rain  
whenever you hang your clothes out on the line it always rains  
uh_huh  
we've had real hot weather  
yeah  
yes  
we you know  
and uh let me think  
i got out of school in may  
in march i was wearing shorts  
i was wearing shorts in march up at college  
and uh we  
what they said is that this area has had its summer weather in the spring  
is what they said what happened  
i hope that  
oh i don't know  
but  
i hope that doesn't mean we're going to get an early winter  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i was wearing shorts in march  
you know it was [nippy]  
but um like it was still in the seventies  
you know high sixties low seventies in march  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we haven't  
oh my gosh  
huh  
really  
see i like i like the snow  
but i like to watch it fall  
and i just like it where it's deep enough you know but not too deep  
really  
well isn't it weird at christmas time without snow  
oh  
yeah  
well it's real dry down there  
you don't have the humidity either do you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
muggy huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see that's what's bad up here is when we do get the real you know hundred and the high nineties we have the humidity to go with it  
so you're like real [mucky]  
and you you know  
your legs stick together just from walking   you know  
so um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that's good  
well i don't know  
well i guess that's really about all  

so what's it been doing up there  
oh really  
oh  
well  
oh  
oh my goodness  
well we have been [drenched]  
we have had so much rain for may and june that we've got all the uh weather people down here really confused  
uh we  
it's probably  
it it's just  
yeah  
right now  
by now it's usually  
no  
you know it's quit raining you know by at least a month  
and it's still  
we're still having april showers   for june  
yeah  
uh i don't know where where it came from  
but it's been really  
we got a lot of uh  
we're in central texas  
and it feels like we live in houston  
yeah  
it's it it you know  
like it rained today  
and then it just kind of steamed everything up you know  
uh it's been great because we haven't had to use our sprinkler system  
but   it's uh it's hard to plan anything outside just because they show up out of nowhere and then they're gone  
we've had some with really really high winds that have trashed trees and   everything else  
it's just  
yeah  
well i hope you get some of that  
we got enough  
we have had plenty  
and we're still uh forecast for more  
yeah  
so  
uh i'm not real sure  
i think a lot of this is coming out of  
i think what's of  
it's coming out of canada  
and it's meeting what's coming out of the gulf  
and it's just causing chaos  
and   i mean these are good these are good summer rains you know electrical storms and and all that  
so it's been it's been uh wet  
and we've moved our yard i think three or four times in the last two or three weeks  
i mean just because it just keeps growing and growing and growing  
and and one one week it just rained [thunderstormed] for a day straight  
and you couldn't get out there  
you just couldn't get out there  
by the time you finally got out there where your lawn mower wouldn't sink we were you know  
yeah  
lawn mower broke  
so  
oh  
well what always works for me is if i water my plants or we wash the car it usually rains  
if not that night the next day  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
hotter than usual  
wow  
huh  
huh  
i guess that means you're going to get a double long summer   because you surely wouldn't get  
no  
i wouldn't think so  
i wouldn't  
not as early as it came  
i mean your talking september maybe  
that's a little early  
still the  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and we were there we were in new jersey last october  
and it was hotter there than it was here  
it was just like a heat wave  
and i was like oh i want to go home   because uh we had we packed to cool off you know brought shorts and sweaters and everything  
and we just died  
it was really hot  
so   but i like it here  
i wouldn't i wouldn't trade it for snow any day  
yeah  
right  
and i can handle a vacation in it  
and you know but my husband is from new jersey  
and he wouldn't go back either  
he did all the   [shoveling] and everything else  
he said it was a pain  
so  
no  
i don't think so  
well see last year we had snow at christmas time  
so it really wasn't it was weird because we had snow  
it's like wow it actually fell on the right day  
so uh no  
it's not  
in fact uh you know we're used to running around in you know spring clothes in december  
and so when it throws in a real cool winter we get broken pipes and and all that kind of stuff and because texas is just isn't built for   you know real cold weather for long periods of time  
no  
not not were we are  
now in houston and stuff they've got it they've got it where no [hairsprayer] works  
it's so humid at times  
but here it's it's just about right  
it's it's pretty dry and not too dry where you know   you just it hurts to breathe  
but   we're just about right  
we're just having this all this rain  
and late rain has made it kind of uncomfortable  
made it   the humidity real high  
but no  
i like it  
well we're right in a good stop because we're you know we get over in the over the hundreds in the summer  
but it's it's not it's a dry heat  
and it's not really as hot and muggy as it would be being over a hundred plus ninety degree humidity   ninety percent humidity  
so  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know what  
so we like it where we're at  
if it's not a whole bunch of everything at once   type stuff  
so but no  
it's interesting when it gets really cold here  
and people forget that they're live in texas  
and they don't know how to drive in snow  
and   you know but uh i wouldn't trade it for anything  
i was born in texas  
and i visited other areas  
and i'm just a sun person i think  
i've gotten used to it  
yeah  
weather is not real hard to talk about  
it doesn't last real long either  
i thought the weather is the last thing you talk about  
but in this case it's the only thing to talk about  
but well [michelle] it's great talking to  
well the weather has been certainly has been hot  
and it's been humid  
i don't remember a year in a long time that the humidity has stayed up this high for uh this late into uh  
well it's not really late into the summer  
but the the humidity has hung around all of june  
no  
i grew up in michigan  
so uh   but i've been i've been in texas for fifteen years  
so uh but you know i know the summers get hot  
but   it certainly uh  
this humidity has just really hung on there  
yes  
oh that's right  
that's right  
i can remember it not  
it's really august that it happens  
you get those great big cracks in the ground where it's been so dry  
and it just gets so dry  
and the earth opens up  
i can remember the first year i moved here  
and it didn't rain  
i moved here like in late august  
and it didn't rain from august until december  
and   i went home and told it just doesn't rain in texas  
i mean it was great after growing up in michigan and not and you know every day was cloudy  
almost every day was cloudy  
and i you sort of forget how much it did rain  
and coming here and then it didn't rain  
it was just wonderful  
oh yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
that's right  
oh i grew up in [dearborn]   which is a suburb of of detroit  
you probably know where that is because i know where pontiac is  
so uh   anyway  
yeah  
oh a teaching job  
yeah  
i did i did for a while  
uh_huh  
so i'm home with home with two children  
so uh   so  
new career   new career  
but uh anyway  
so that kind of uh  
well i had been down here to visit  
so i school and said hey let's you know find a place that has a nice job  
and uh that's how it worked out  
oh yeah  
oh well it's a nice place you know  
i mean it's it's a nice that's a nice place though  
okay  
sort of  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
lake i think lake [whitmore] is the only one i have real memories of   which is  
well i think it's i think it's toward ann [arbor]  
so it's probably out in that direction  
but that's the only one i probably could name   after all these years  
so   but uh  
yeah  
oh  
right  
right  
sure  
sure  
and isn't that where they have a summer music festival there too  
that's right  
that's right  
i know we used to  
we we didn't do a lot of it  
but we did   we did  
so those are always fun  
and [alpine] was it [alpine] was another ski slope   that we went to  
so uh   it was nice  
i always tell people that in the winter we use we used to uh  
my dad would kind of bank up the snow in the backyard and turn the hose on you know make a pond in the backyard for us  
so but uh you know we probably did some ice skating on it  
but then it chipped chipped  
and you know it would melt or whatever and get pretty uneven  
so  
yeah  
oh  
oh  
oh right  
right  
if only it would make nice snow here in texas we'd be okay at christmas time  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
no  
that's not fun either  
so uh i i just as soon have all the [slushy] snow on the streets than have the ice on the streets  
so   but uh well we have  
our house is kind of on a little hill  
so uh we get the [sled] out  
and uh the kids go down the the hill on the [sleds] when it's [icy]  
i mean they just go down the ice  
and if it's cold we say okay out you go  
i think we must be the only people on the block that make use of that cold weather and get out there  
yeah  
are you native to this area  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it seemed like well you know last year was so strange having all those heavy heavy rains in april  
and this year we really didn't have heavy rains until may  
kind of like pushed the season back a little farther  
and now it's kind of [lingering] with kind of still a bit of humidity  
and it just tried to rain  
i mean i was coming in from my car just a few minutes ago  
and it was trying to rain which   seems strange to have it raining in july  
normally we don't have too much uh humidity or or uh rainy time when it's past june  
right  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
see i i lived in uh ohio mainly  
i lived in uh pontiac just a little while before i came   down here  
and you know so many times when you were trying to schedule outdoor activities you just never knew if it was going to be a go or not because of the weather  
it might rain on your little parade  
you know and here it was like pretty much you could schedule some activity outside anytime  
and you really didn't have too much of a chance of it getting rained out  
you could pretty much do whatever you wanted to do  
what part of michigan were you living in  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
what brought you down here  
so you teach in plano schools  
oh  
okay  
okay  
well yeah  
i think a lot of people were uh leaving michigan all about the time i came here in the early eighties  
and it seemed like it was almost a mass [exodus]  
you know the the little joke about will the last person leaving michigan just turn out the light  
well you know i i said i lived in uh the pontiac  
i didn't live in the city of pontiac  
i lived to the west of it  
uh i forget the the county  
but you know where all the lakes are around there  
i lived in an apartment complex on one of the lakes  
it was real close to where i worked  
it was only like four miles to work  
and it was wonderful being on the lake like that  
you know in the summer you feel like you're you know on a vacation all the time because you're right on a lake  
and everybody's you know out enjoying the water and such  
and uh in the winter time the lakes froze over  
you could still kind of go sledding and such out there  
but i thought it was just really neat to be out there on all those lakes  
there's lots of really small ones out there  
you know like maybe a mile two long  
that's enough to uh do some boating  
and it was lots of fun  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but it was yeah just lots of little lakes  
and of course it was you know a little more expensive to live on the lake  
but i just thought that was grand  
and i think a lot of people didn't really know that there were all those lakes out there unless you were from that area and kind of [spotted] them  
but there was quite a few lakes all around there  
it seemed like it was almost like you were living on an island  
there was so much water around where i was  
i said i wasn't close to downtown pontiac  
i was way out to the west maybe four or five miles from from the city limits  
and it was really nice out there  
we had uh pine [knob]   you know to go skiing   and stuff  
so there were things around there  
really was pretty nice  
right  
right  
in the summertime they have musicals there  
and in the winter time they make snow and have a ski slope  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we used to have a  
christmas time uh some of our relatives would come up from alabama  
and i think most times we would have snow around christmas  
and the kids when they were young would just go nuts  
you know because they were from alabama where it never snowed  
and they just had a grand time watching the snow and getting out there and playing in it you know [eternally]  
my first winter here  
i i came down in uh early eighty two  
and there was just a freak [snowfall] early one morning in december couple days before christmas  
it lasted only a few hours  
like   by noon it was gone  
and i remember getting up and somebody telling me hey better wait to go to work because the roads are all you know snow  
and i was laughing going yeah right that's a good practical joke  
ha ha  
they said no really there's snow  
and there was but a very short time  
and the weather got warm so quick  
it just melted it all away  
course when we get an ice storm that's not too much fun  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i think it's fun  
even the couple of ice storms i've gotten out there in my ski pants or something and still just been out and enjoying it a little bit  
i mean sometimes the ice is pretty bad  
but if you get on the the uh [grassy] kind of part you get a little bit of traction you know not slip and fall  
i mean first  
okay  
how's the weather been in plano  
yeah  
this is probably unusual topic to give two of us in the same city  
well i don't know about you  
but i was really enjoying the cool snap last couple of weeks  
and i'm ready for it to come back  
well not the rain so much as the cool the other mornings when it was like sixty five when we woke up and sixty six  
and today i know when i got up that the temperature said more like close seventy nine or eighty  
so i'm kind of ready for the pumpkin weather  
you don't  
are you a summer person  
are you  
well i have a friend who's the same way  
and anything below sixty she's just not happy  
but i i think what i would miss is the change of seasons and all because i know in plano we really don't have as many seasons as uh  
my husband's from nebraska  
and they have more of the four seasons  
oh you're   used to that too  
you don't like the cold  
well i usually like it about sweater weather  
and the problem   here in plano is it doesn't last very long  
it goes from hot  
and then you get a couple of weeks of that indian summer  
and then it's cold  
and i wish it were several months of that  
well i don't either unless it's like uh  
some of my [favorite's] like a friday night when it rains  
and you really didn't have anywhere to go  
and it's sleeping time  
but if you have to get up and get out in it i don't like it either  
oh yeah  
well sure it does  
that kind of schedule you really need a lot more sunshine  
and also the evenings are going to be getting uh darker sooner   as it gets cooler  
but i did a walk last night  
and it seemed like it was a little bit hot still  
sometimes when you work up a sweat you need it to be a little bit cooler  
well i agree absolutely  
and you know it's all relative  
because i was from west texas  
and it was very dry  
and so i thought dallas was awful  
and i still think so  
but then this summer we went to orlando for a week  
and it was so humid there that your um all your windows were were wet every morning  
they had to get the   [squeejies] and clean them off  
and when we got back to dallas it seemed really dry   because it's kind of like what you're used to  
but i agree with you  
the humidity especially for curly heads like me  
yes  
i do not like the  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think so too  
i know our grass needs mowing twice as often   when it rains  
but it seems like here  
i would like it to rain and then be over and then not rain for a while  
it seems like when it gets stuck in a rain pattern that's all it does  
so uh but i i am ready for a little bit of the cooler weather and not so much in the nineties   but something like  
i guess my my best would be probably sixty eight when you wake up or sixty six and then probably seventy five during the day  
yeah  
yeah  
are you do you like the heat in the summer then when it gets up in the nineties and hundreds  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
keep it there  
yeah  
well i do too  
i do too  
and that was one thing about the year around school that originally we had been sort of negative on it  
but then we started thinking especially in plano the weather is so hot in august that there really isn't a lot the children can do outside anyhow  
static here  
yeah  
we do too  
i think a lot of people agree the same  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now there have been worse summers  
in fact this morning when they were talking about uh harold taft they were talking about how this has been one of the [milder]   of the summers and [milder] fall  
everybody seems to be  
you can tell some of the [newscasters] when they like the heat because they'll talk about it being so gorgeous on those days when we're melting  
and you can tell when they talk about beautiful weather some mornings when we're it'll be too cold  
and they'll say  
well those are the ones that like the cold weather  
oh yeah  
he did  
he did  
it was   it was really a shame  
he didn't go with all the [gimmicks] that some of them did  
it's kind of hard to keep on about the weather for five minutes  
oh is that right  
okay  
oh good  
well good  
well then have a good day  
and i hope you enjoy the weather this week  
basically about the same as what you've probably had  
uh_huh  
oh you like the rain do you  
uh_huh  
oh are you  
i don't care for that as much  
no  
i'm a summer person  
i like the heat  
yeah  
and i'm from utah  
so i i like   the four seasons  
i just don't like the cold  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the thing the other thing is the i don't like the rain either  
well we have several children that are in sports  
and so   it always makes their games be [postponed] forever and ever and ever on on and on  
i like it better i think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the thing about when it gets hot here is i don't like the humidity  
that part i don't care about  
oh really  
oh is that right  
well another reason  
well i guess i can't say that it i don't like the rain completely  
we have a little garden that we have  
and   and so it really helps our garden  
and you know even i don't know if that's because plants are just that way  
and they like rain  
or it seems they thrive when it rains  
they just really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
well i like seventies   i like seventies okay  
oh i don't like nineties  
you can give me seventies  
and you can give me eighties  
and i'm okay  
but when it gets too hot then it's that i don't like that  
i stay in the house because it's just   it's just too hot  
yeah  
yeah  
that's okay  
um i've i've thought about that too  
and um when we take our vacations we we do take them in august sometimes   so that we can be away from here  
it just really gets way  
when it gets way too hot  
and we've been here for several years  
and we've been here years when it's been hundreds  
and  
years  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
he he always did such a good job i thought  
a good weather man  
yeah  
anyway um i guess it's  
that's okay  
they say when you're done you're done  
so   yeah  
you don't have to wait for them to say   cut off your time  
you just say have a good day or whatever  
you too  
you too  
well this is a subject that you never think you'll be assigned to   one that kind of comes up when you've lost it the others other subjects  
um as i was sitting there i thought the weather's been perfect  
i don't know much to say about it  
it's uh it's you know  
for the [balloon] festival here in plano it was just gorgeous  
are you  
it couldn't have been better  
i mean it didn't foul one launch  
and that's kind of unusual  
and it's kind of cold in the mornings  
so you dress up warm  
but by  
that's the only thing wrong i can find with it  
oh how fun  
i miss that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
ooh  
i guess you have to take some things and leave some things  
yeah  
i'm from utah area  
and they you know they have tons of [canyons] where the leaves change  
and they're gorgeous  
you could spend every weekend of the fall going to a different area  
yeah  
it's kind of hazardous for driving  
that's for sure  
but i can't complain  
i don't know if i've been spoiled  
i've been thinking it's getting cold sooner than normal  
we've only lived here a couple of years  
huh  
we'll have to see how it goes  
a couple of weeks ago we were cooler than normal  
but then we're back to being warmer than normal this week or last week  
so  
i don't have to live through many any of those really  
a bad  
i mean nothing comparable i guess to what you've had before  
you're right  
well they get ice  
and no one can drive on ice  
i mean we used to think they were pansies  
but then when you decided what ice was  
so well i think we've discussed it good enough today  
it was   it was good talking to you  
maybe we'll get the next time  
take care  
bye bye  
no  
i'm from plano also  
that's right  
right  
i just got back from dayton  
i spent the weekend in ohio with my family  
and the trees are changing color there  
so that  
as soon as we got out of the cloud cover  
of course it wasn't sunny like it is here  
it was real gray  
but as soon as the plane got through the clouds  
and i saw all those trees  
it just really made me realize how much i miss the fall  
i don't complain weather wise though because it was also thirty five degrees there yesterday morning  
and the high was only fifty  
and it was supposed to drop and get sleet in the afternoon  
so it was nice to get off the plane where it was in the seventies  
that's right  
yeah  
we did that when we lived up in michigan  
we went up to the upper peninsula  
and they actually printed out [maps] of routes you could take so you would get maximum leaf exposure  
and then on leaf weekends it was which is this time of the year it's bumper to bumper traffic  
people as  
whoever was driving could never have a prayer of looking at the leaves because they had to keep watching the road  
yes  
i think it is  
and my family said that in ohio there was just an article on at the t v news that they are three weeks ahead of schedule   as far as the [coldness] of the temperatures and uh the first frost  
everything just happened three weeks early this year  
just so we don't have one of those famous ice storms   in the spring  
well i've only been here just a short time too  
so i haven't been through   any of those either  
so i have in michigan  
but in michigan you can get twelve inches of snow  
and life goes on  
so as i understand it here if there's anything they'll call off schools and and close businesses  
right  
right  
the real definition of ice  
i think so  
it was nice talking with you  
okay  
okay  
bye  
okay  
forty eight  
that's a long time uh  
uh_huh  
andrews  
well for the past week or two it's been cold and wet  
but before that for most of the year it's been hot and dry  
um september really was  
i'm not sure about october  
i think for about twelve months through september the the average temperature has been higher than normal   each month   um lots of ninety degree days during the summer  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh if you had it early  
yeah  
i think we usually have a frost in october  
uh but you know we really need the rain that we've been getting  
and it has not today  
but the last few days it's been been pouring most of the day  
flooding anywhere  
i have not heard of it any problems of it flooding anywhere  
i mean that's occurred certainly at times in the past  
but uh no  
i've not heard of any particular problems this time  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
we had summer lasting long  
and then it then it then it became winter like uh   today it's today it's sort of change to warmer to sort of more typical autumn day  
yeah  

i don't know  
yeah  
our leaves are are all on on the ground now  
i think it was an especially good winter for fall colors  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we we did for a time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
been that this year   for the trees   for the leaves  
um  
yeah  
that's because it it can't tolerate a freeze this early  
is that right  
if it would came later it would be all right  
um  
so what do you guys having up there  
i haven't been up there since oh lord forty eight i guess  
well no  
it wasn't forty eight  
it was it was uh let's see yeah it was forty eight  
i was in the air force  
we did an air show out at uh out at uh [boone] [greene] no out at uh   andrews  
yeah  
so what's it been like up there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh like september was hot and dry  
october  
really  
huh  
it really has been strange here this year  
i mean this whole course this whole year has been a different year in more ways than one  
but uh we had uh you know all these we have all these uh  
somebody said you know you're either a stranger or a fool to try to predict texas weather  
but   well always they were saying it was going to be the hottest summer ever  
and we had all this rain  
and it really is not a bad summer at all really cool  
but all of a sudden in in uh in october uh september october it got real hot and dry and just stayed that way for a long time  
and uh then the end of october it started rain almost a week without stopping just pouring down you know  
there were flash floods everywhere that kind of deal  
and then   uh into of november the first like the second week uh you know the first week actually we had we had a freeze  
and the average you know the average uh first frost is like the fifteenth of november here  
but usually it's not until later  
it's really strange  
yeah  
is it is it is it flooding anywhere  
it's just kind of uh  
we're supposed to have a chance to get some rain the next couple of days here uh which will be you know a little bit more typical uh autumn weather but really it's strange  
we haven't really had an autumn  
it's like we went into winter  
you know the poor trees said what  
yeah  
uh it's  
yeah  
there you you know  
usually there's uh  
i have a farm a hundred miles east of here in east texas  
and you know all these huge trees just like the eastern hard wood belt all the way up to maine you know  
it's that same trees pines and and hard woods you know   [hickories] and oaks and stuff  
and uh i was up there last weekend  
and there are trees that that still have their leaves on  
and they're green  
but they're dead  
you know the the freeze just got them  
they they weren't ready for it at all apparently  
and and we haven't had a typical fall at all  
not much color you know changes have occurred at all  
really weird this year  
i'm not sure what that what that means  
so you you all actually had some color huh  
it kind of crept in  
and  
yeah  
it's usually beautiful up there isn't it  
gorgeous  
that's you know  
i think you could drive along in maryland and look at the sweet gum trees on each side and the and the pines and what not  
and you could you know you could be driving along in east texas and looks just the same  
it's almost you know identical kind of country  
beautiful  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
i was up i was up there cutting some firewood this weekend  
so  
little little oak tree that was dead and cut it up and split it  
well  
uh it there's some trees  
like the oaks like the white oaks seem to be pretty hardy  
there's  
nothing bothers them  
their leaves are still green  
and some of the other oaks there are a few oaks that have lost their leaves  
um what i notice mostly is the red [maples] that the leaves are just dead the [dogwoods] still look still look you know they got uh bit on the ends of the leaves a little bit  
but they still look pretty good  
it just depends on the on the uh on the tree  
so how is the weather out there  
oh really  
um uh it's just it's a it's about same  
the usual i think  
so nice for skiing and all that kind of stuff  
it's good  
oh really  
what part  
oh really  
okay  
it's more humid in utah than there  
or there  
okay  
right  
okay  
yeah  
see that's how it is in texas too  
because when it's cold it's really cold  
so  
what's that  
right  
yeah  
so the humidity is i think what does it  
because i i noticed when i got here too  
because like i'd  
when it would snow in texas   uh i would just i mean we'd be really cold  
and we'd have to get really warm  
and here you can almost not even wear a coat outside when it's snowing  
and you don't   you don't feel super cold  
it was weird  
but so how long ago did you graduate  
or did you  
or  
oh really  
oh  
so you just barely moved away  
do you like it out there  
you do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so you just moved away a year ago  
wow really recent  
oh warm  
oh man  
it's got to be like it's probably fifty fifty five maybe  
maybe not that warm  
probably about uh  
yeah  
it's not it's not that cold really  
yeah  
yeah  
that's a big deal in texas too  
um  
yeah  
that's true  
that makes a big difference huh  
so did you used to ski when you were out here  
did you used to ski when you were in utah  
oh really  
uh not tons  
but i like to when i get a chance  
i've only been once so far but had the opportunity a couple times since then  
just saving my money for christmas things   and that  
uh no  
this is actually my third year  
uh_huh  
yep  
no  
at b y u  
yeah  
so but i'll be here a long time at this rate  
uh it was nursing  
but i'm in the process of changing it right now  
because it's really really competitive at b y u  
you have to have like a three seven to get in  
so   it's really  
i'm going to look into some other fields  
i'd like  
all the science classes and that i'm just not really enjoying too much  
so   i think i better get into something that i can enjoy the process of going to school  
so  
did you graduate in a certain field  
or  
in  
really  
that what my sister did  
yeah  
you might know her  
here name is lori bird  
maybe not  
i think she graduated around then too though eighty seven probably  
but she got her  
yeah  
yeah  
because they since uh stopped that program i mean where you can   where you can get it double pretty easily  
i mean it's it's really  
uh it's really cold  
and it's supposedly for this time of the year it's unseasonably cold  
and they've gotten more snow than they've ever had  
you have breaking records for [coldness] and all that kind of stuff  
how about you guys  
oh  
yeah  
well the weather let's see well the snow here is different from utah's  
because i have lived in utah for like ten years  
and uh  
provo  
i was going to b y u  
yeah  
and uh the snow is like really cold  
i mean it's like really humid  
so it seems [wetter] or something like that  
it's  
uh_huh  
it's more humid in iowa   than utah  
yeah  
and it seems like when the winds blow it's really it goes right through you  
it's really different from utah's weather  
i thought utah was cold  
but i think iowa is a lot colder  
yeah  
i don't think there is any mountains to stop the wind  
i don't think there is any mountains to stop the wind  
yeah  
i think that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
uh i graduated in nineteen eighty seven  
yeah  
my husband got his doctorate at b y u  
so that's  
and so he just graduated this past year  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we really miss   well we really miss utah  
we miss   the mountains  
because it's like really flat here  
well not flat but hilly  
but no big mountains or anything  
uh in august  
yeah  
but uh see see what else can i say about the weather  
uh well today was warmer  
it was like forty five  
so what's the temperature up today over there  
oh really  
and whenever i remembered the weather reports in utah i never really remember them talking too much about wind chill  
but they talk about wind chill here all the time  
they said it could be like six degrees out and like negative forty one wind chill  
so that's what we're not used to  
so oh i  
what's that  
oh i've only i've only skied in utah once  
i only skied once my whole life  
but do you do a lot of skiing there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so is this your first year in utah  
and you're going to school there  
oh  
at u of u  
or  
oh really  
oh  
what's your major  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that's a good idea  
uh education  
i got a double major  
uh elementary and special ed  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
well i can't  
there are so many girls in all my classes  
i can't remember   how many people  
oh have they  
oh  
oh yes  
very appropriate i guess  
uh you ready for this  
okay john  
just a moment  
well guess what  
we get to talk about the weather  
uh_huh  
oh you do  
so you you you probably go everywhere   and have all sorts of weather  
i imagine it's kind of an experience also trying to land and take off in the weather  
well actually i'm i'm i've heard on the news that we uh will be setting a record here in the state of texas for the uh large amounts of rain and moisture we've had this year that it's going to break all kind of records that were set set set back since nineteen thirty two  
so yeah  
if it keeps on raining like this  
and i understand it's supposed to rain until saturday night  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
wow  
and so are you an airline pilot  
oh great  
for southwest  
fantastic  
i have a brother i have a brother that's a pilot also with american  
yeah  
so i imagine you uh-oh with all this kind of weather it uh makes it kind of dangerous for you  
oh i guess so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
well we moved actually down here from another location  
and it's spectacular the the thunderstorms and rain storms you get in the spring time the [torrents] of rain  
pardon me  
i've never seen a thunder show like i've seen down here before in texas  
lights up the whole sky and even on a on a  
actually i've i've seen it where there's not a cloud in the sky  
it's a [cloudless] night  
and the rain isn't falling  
but you can see the thunder and excuse me see the lightening going [horizontally] across the sky   and back and forth and what a light show  
it's it's fabulous  
yeah  
that's true  
i'm from uh northern utah  
and that's a very arid climate from uh salt lake city area  
and there's always a lot of snow  
in fact where i grew up we were about an hour's drive from seven to uh twelve different major ski resorts  
and so   there was an awful lot of snow  
and because it was an arid climate the snow was always a crisp powder light snow   which made it fantastic for skiing and and [sleigh] riding and everything else  
so we had a great time  
um yeah  
in uh   in [snowbird] and [solitude] and   and [brighton] and yes   all those areas  
so i imagine have you skied before  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
great  
well do you think this the the weather is typical for this time of the year  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
it's been it's been cold  
there was a time though in the uh middle part of november that got really cool really really   unseasonably cool  
and then it warmed right back up  
and i thought great  
and that's that's a fun  
yeah  
my wife was just listening here  
and she said yeah  
it froze in fact  
and uh but uh i've really enjoyed the weather down here too  
because uh two years ago we were the day after christmas able to go out in shorts and play tennis in the nice sunny weather  
and it's not as severe i should say   as the weather that i've experienced up in northern utah  
down here  
not in minnesota  
i have a brother in law that lives in minnesota  
and they say boy six months out of the year it's bitter cold and   and the wind and the blowing snow and everything  
uh_huh  
about the weather  
yeah  
the weather is uh this time of year has actually been kind of unusual  
i haven't expected it to be colder until you know  
like we've gotten the last couple of days  
i don't know  
i fly for a living  
and i've uh  
the weather's been terribly unusual every where i've been  
yeah  
yeah  
well it was around here last night  
i'll tell you that  
no kidding  
um  
saturday or sunday they were saying  
yeah  
yeah  
i know the systems have been real strong out  
i went through uh phoenix on twice on uh wednesday morning  
and uh approaches to low minimum both both times  
and phoenix never gets that kind of weather  
so  
yes  
i am  
for southwest  
yeah  
oh is that right  
well now i wouldn't call it danger  
this is uh this really isn't bad stuff to fly around in  
this is much better than dealing with the thunderstorms in the springtime  
yeah  
the the air systems are reasonably calm  
we don't have uh the [turbulence]   have a uh little bit of chop  
but it's not like it is in the spring time  
spectacular is the right word for them  
spectacular is a good word for them  
it's amazing  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
cloud to cloud it can be real really sensational here  
where are you from originally  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
were you near near the park cities area  
beautiful area  
uh_huh  
well we've skied  
i have not skied that area  
i've driven through it several times  
uh i skied we skied california a bunch when we lived out there  
and   and uh um and of course grew we grew up in minnesota  
and we do some skiing there   lot of cross country skiing there  
well not really  
i you know  
minnesota's gotten just [hammered] with snow um  
the um uh  
we've gotten a fair amount of rain for this time of year already   i think  
and uh i've been surprised that we haven't seen more of the temperatures that we've got today you know that moved in last night  
yes  
yes  
it did  
yeah  
yeah  
it was it was real cold  
yeah  
but that was very [unseasonable] for us down here  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's that's real true  
same with us from minnesota  
it's it's uh  
in fact i've i've played golf on on uh new year's day one year  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
no  
no  
no  
oh it is  
it is  
well and they've had uh you know  
usually in minnesota they get their snow in january   and february  
and they're up over sixty five or  
yeah  
yeah  
we have uh in california  
i'm in i lived in central california  
we have rain couple times a year  
and other than that you know it would be maybe october and then in the spring  
and then other than that there wouldn't be any rain   so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there has  
so here i know that uh last year there was some ice storms while i was out of the state  
and i'm glad to see there haven't been any this year  
yeah  
yet  
still could come  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
it's so hard to predict here  
yeah  
well today it's not bad out there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so you do that even in january huh  
uh_huh  
yeah oh  
that's   interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have  
and they're not too pleasant  
it gets so humid  
to me it's humid here  
people that i know that   come from uh like georgia or   north carolina   yeah they say it's  
yeah  
but i find it  
right  
i was central california  
central valley  
it's very dry there  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's pretty hot in the summer  
it's in the usually you know  
for a good three four weeks we have over a hundred degrees  
but it's a dry heat yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know well i lived in africa for a couple years in   cameroon  
and that's a tropical climate  
and it really feels similar to this   during the summer  
no  
i was uh working with uh i still work with wycliff bible translators  
it's an organization where we are looking to translate the bible into languages of the world that aren't yet written  
right  
languages that don't have anything written yet  
so this is like the first thing that's written down  
or   you know first an [alphabet] is developed  
and then uh  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's based here  
uh the international headquarters for wycliff bible translators is right here in in dallas  
yeah  
right now i am  
that's what brought me here  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
i agree  
i i thought the fall was really nice  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you probably do a lot of that with   scout   scouting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
well considering you moved here from california i guess the rain for the past few weeks has been different than what you have down there  
especially   the last few years  
it's kind of it's kind of been a drought out there hasn't it uh  
yet  
generally if we're going to get them it's not going to happen uh prior to january one  
you may get a cold snap or two or some rain or something like we've been getting in december  
but   usually the [bitterest] weather if we're going to have any comes in january and february  
then by march things are getting warm again  
so we really don't have as long a cold season i guess as people up north  
it's been eighty degrees on christmas day here before  
lots of times  
no  
it's nice  
i just came in from outside  
and it's it's really pretty  
it's kind of nice to have it dry all the ground out   before it rains again  
i'm a i'm a [scoutmaster]  
and so i wind up going out camping with uh a bunch of boys at one time  
and so it's   better for us if it hasn't been this totally wet before we go  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we camp year round  
but uh   it's uh it's definitely different  
and then i guess you've been through a couple of summers here too right  
oh it is  
it's not as   humid   as houston say or atlanta  
but it   but   more humid than arizona  
and california for the most part  
were you northern california  
central  
so that was   dry but pretty even climate wasn't it   year round fairly   not wide [fluctuations]  
but it's a drier  
hundred when you have a hundred here everybody's dying  
oh  
what types of   what type what type of business takes you to those climates  
or was that just vacation or something  
oh  
not so much still trying to translate old texts as just trying to translate modern versions into other languages  
oh  
that's interesting  
you don't think about that as a career a normal career uh when   you're thinking of things that people might be doing  
so you're you're with the home office now  
well the uh i think uh all in all there are a lot worse climates than dallas uh  
the weather   you know does change fast  
and things do happen severely a few times a year  
but there's an awful lot of good weather too in   between  
yeah  
and usually a lot of the spring months are really nice too   after the last freeze  
and and when it begins to be in the sixties and seventies most of the time uh i   like that   particularly if i'm going to be outdoors   and doing uh outdoor activity hiking and things  
and that's   nicer  
yeah  
i   do quite a bit of that  
think we're going in just a couple of weeks out to the east texas  
and it is a little more humid out there than it is here  
so   i guess we'll  
the only thing you have to watch out in this part of the country is during the change type seasons is the really severe storms that occasionally   come through out here on the plains  
there's not much between us and the north pole  
and then when you get one of those tornado type   systems through or severe hail or thunderstorms  
and then  
what kind of crime do you think uh is the most prevalent in our society  
such as new york city  
yeah  
i i i wonder if uh if drug use is a more prevalent crime though because i mean so many people use it  
and even though just using is not really  
i mean it is a crime  
well that's true  
but i was i i was staying in the realm of of felonies versus misdemeanors   and uh drug use  
well actually drug use is probably a misdemeanor  
but uh what kind what kind  
have you been uh have you been the subject of such a crime such as stealing or anything  
that that's not that much  
i mean   you know those aren't  
i  
yeah  
i think it is  
i in some ways it's almost worse than murder  
uh  
murder murder is is hard on the people that were related to  
you know i mean it is a rather final solution though  
yes  
what what do you think is uh is an appropriate uh punishment for some of the various you know such as things such as rape or or uh murder   or something like that  
i agree with that  
yeah  
i think virginia does too up here  
yeah  
i think the appeal process takes too long  
i think i i think it should take from conviction to execution should take no longer than a year  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
i mean the system isn't perfect  
i mean it's run by a bunch of imperfect humans  
you do the best you can to make it perfect you know  
you you go out of your way to try real hard to make it perfect  
but i think you have to accept some of the errors  
i think that murder itself would decrease significantly if if there was a [credible] punishment uh for murderers  
and society probably too  
i mean just general society to  
uh  
yeah  
it does  
and and it [decreases] the prison population   and which is   significant  
i mean   yeah  
yeah  
generally the crimes of passion and things like that uh are not premeditated  
i mean they can be  
but usually they aren't  
they're spur of the moment  
and uh the premeditated murders the ones where the person plots and plans when you catch those those individuals i think that you you end up with a uh uh how do i want to you end up with a you end up with someone who's more dangerous to society   because they actually could harbor these thoughts for a long time  
yes  
they they would have no problems doing it again  
uh_huh  
and i think locking them up for you know fifty years doesn't do a any good because   as a as a taxpayer i'm going to pay you know one and a  
oh boy probably uh robberies people stealing from each other  
is that what happens up there a lot  
uh that that's mostly what i hear though is people getting ripped off and things getting stolen  
that's the most prevalent crime uh the ones that really you know the ones that really add up after a while i guess you know from far as insurance money and stuff like that insurance costs  
you know everybody has to pay for it indirectly eventually  
oh well yeah  
that that that is a crime  
i guess uh when you when you count all the little things that people do like  
uh speeding is a crime  
i break that law every day  
uh_huh  
well i've uh i've been caught with marijuana before  
so i guess that was a crime  
i got a year's probation for that  
but uh  
no  
it wasn't that   big a deal  
uh when i think of crime i think of stuff that that affects other people like people getting you know killed or raped  
i think rape is one of the worst crimes  
yeah  
it's very degrading  
and   yeah  
yeah  
right  
once once a person's you know gone then it's  
but the person that's been raped has to live with that the rest of their life you know  
well   for for a lot of the kind of premeditated murders i think the death penalty is  
it's a pretty good thing  
they they have that down here in florida still  
they the electric chair  
and uh  
oh do they  
yeah  
i think i think that's still an appropriate penalty to pay if they absolutely sure they got the right guy  
and i guess usually they're they're always sure they got the right guy  
but uh  
yeah  
so do i  
yeah  
if that  
you know the sooner  
a a a year's plenty of time   you know for something to come out i guess  
then you know there's been guys in jail for six years  
and the other guy admits that he did it  
and they  
it's like oops  
but   uh_huh  
right  
um yeah  
i don't know if it would or not though  
i i don't think it's a so much of a deterrent as as it is a a good uh a good way for vengeance you know for the relatives and and family members  
you know what i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
it kind of gets   it off their chest  
yeah  
i know that   a a lot of the   lot of murders that you hear about are people that know each other  
and they're   the kind of like crimes of passion and stuff like that  
i don't think you'll ever stop all that stuff dead  
but i you might be able to uh stop people you know  
they're thinking about it  
they know they're going to get the chair if they get caught  
right  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
they could probably do it again  
that's right  
they didn't have any time doing it the first time  
no  
it  
my husband's been in dallas during an ice storm he said that he pulled up to a stop at a stop sign and completely stopped just [slid] to the side of the curb that they're that bad
lubbock we get ice storms but not not quite to that extent it's not the thin sheet you know
all across the road ours if it [ices] over it's thick it's with snow
it's something that you can drive on you can get a little traction with
uh i think we've been fortunate that we've missed any of the real bad weather this year because we went to california instead
but right now uh we're having unusually warm weather it's it's almost like they're try it's trying to skip spring and go straight to summer
it's either uh thirty degrees you know one day and ninety the next and and we're we're missing the fifties and sixties in there somewhere
well i have been here permanently or full time since nineteen eighty
and uh pretty much off and on since seventy four
so really quite a while
and i've watched the weather shift you know i can remember being here back in the seventies in college
and the spring dust storms were uh they were massive i mean you could stand on one side of the street and not see buildings across the street
that dust yeah
not fun to be in
but i haven't seen any like that in probably five or ten years
so it's it's changing and the summers are getting hot and the winters are cold
but i guess i can live with it
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's true
well now does dallas get snow
or is it usually just the ice storm
okay
well that was one reason why i figured that i could stand lubbock texas
that was about as much winter as i could get because i grew up west coast sunshine green leaves on trees
came back here and could not realize why i had been so depressed through the winter
and realized that that was the first time in my life
i had seen trees lose their leaves
and uh and of course when spring and everything came out again uh it was beautiful
but that's about as much winter as i can take
i mean it gets cold here
and with wind chill it sometimes gets you know fifteen twenty degrees below because of the wind
but it's not six feet of snow and it doesn't stay on the ground six months out of the year
and i know the sun is coming
uh_huh
yeah
well now when did winter start there
you said you had more winter than summer
now was there
actually snow on the ground all that time from september through what march
oh goodness
uh_huh
oh
oh my goodness
well now was that expected though
i mean employers expected people to not necessarily be there on time due to the delays or uh yeah
everything stops yeah
well now do you work at t i
i was going to say there have been several times when i know they had ice storms down in dallas uh that we would be up here trying to call
and it we'd figure out after about the first hour that there ain't nobody at work
oh okay
hop skip and a jump there you go
well that's good
well are you uh do you prefer the kind of weather that you're getting in dallas over your years in new hampshire
or do you miss the winters
oh my goodness
sure
once you're out of the house you're in the street
that's good
i did go up to new england one time during their fall season when the weather was just
you know it was kind of uh a brisk feeling outside
but it wasn't freezing the leaves were turning and now that part of a winter up there
i could truly love but uh uh-oh
well what about your summers in dallas now is that similar was it humid up in the new england states like it is down there
yeah
well so that's no big i tell you what that's funny to hear you talk about that
because for me to come to dallas in the summer
it's [stifling] humidity to me because lubbock is so dry
uh you know it may be a hundred and a hundred an five or whatever up here
but there is no humidity
and its you know if there's a breeze blowing it's nice comfortable day
and you don't feel like you have to take ten showers a day because you you take a shower and walk outside and the humidity is so great you know you're sweating to death
again
yeah
oh
well today was really nice the past few days have been rather chilly
uh we had a lot of rain recently
i'm in texas where are you
oh you are
do you work for t i
oh i see
yeah
so then we've been having just about the same weather
yeah
have you been doing anything outside in this great weather
no
yeah
i know we had a tornado
watch uh couple of days ago
but nothing really happened
are you originally from uh texas the
uh_huh
well i lived in new york for a long time
so
texas is texas weather is quite uh different for me
yeah
we did they're always mild to me compared to new york winters
have you have been to new york in the winter
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
the only thing i don't like about uh dallas weather is that it gets a little bit too hot
sometimes in the summer
yeah
yeah
like new york was really humid
you know you
but you could you could walk around outside in new york you could stay outside in in it you know because it was i guess the average summer temperature is about eighty
you know in the eighties
and it was pretty pleasant except for the humidity uh_huh
well at least you can plan
you can say well i'm going to go to the beach next wednesday
and you'll know it's going to be hot enough to go
but in new york
you really never know you can plan to you know to go up to the beach on the fourth of july
and then you know it might be seventy degrees or something
uh_huh
yeah
i'm sure it will in dallas texas
right
have you ever been to canada
um
uh_huh
that's supposed to be really cold weather in the winter
that's why new york gets so cold because it's so close to canada
uh_huh
goodness
uh_huh
was it snow snowing
um
you know uh christmas really doesn't seem like christmas to me
unless i do see the snow and the ice
it's just really pretty with the snow and the ice and all of the lights
not necessarily not the ice
i should leave the ice out of it
but the snow is real pretty
uh_huh
i know one christmas when i was in dallas it it snowed and and there was a white christmas
but i don't i guess it's been about five or six years ago
uh_huh
yeah
i just think it's really really pretty
one christmas here it was sixty degrees
that was so strange to me having lived in new york you know
yeah
yeah
and people drive like the street is dry
yeah
i don't think t i's closed down in a couple of years for bad weather
um i'll look forward to one of those days
not
that's true
did you say you work in plano
oh you do
i do too
did i get what
two days ago
uh i know it sprinkled some
uh_huh
i believe it it it uh it rained at night or something because i saw [puddles] of water outside
but i didn't
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well march is the the month for high winds and it's been rather windy here too
uh_huh
have you heard the forecast for the week coming up
yeah
i haven't either
yeah
it's probably going to start getting summer hot
yeah
well that's nice
oh you plant
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well it probably they'll probably do
okay
now i have a friend that's planted some uh planted a garden some things like [collard] greens and cabbage and uh they're coming up really pretty just need a just need a good rain
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well i live in an apartment
so the only thing i grow are plants inside
and i don't do very well with those
i think the temperature in here
yeah
but i guess i just don't know what i'm doing
sometimes i i sit the plants outside on the patio and and i forget about them
and it gets too hot out there and and they you know burn up and so forth
that's happened to quite a few of my plants
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well good
i hope hope it's nice too
yeah
i hope it's as nice as it was today
seems like it was extra cold last night though
but i know it was cold
i had turn on the heat
and quilts yeah
yeah
uh_huh
i remember on year seems like it started about the end of february
yeah
hot
uh_huh
yeah
but it up in new york
it's cold till about june
um
yeah
one thing about the snow in march it at at least it'll melt it melts quickly up there
that's true
okay
the topic said to discuss the weather what is it like where you are
and
how's that different from normal
well let's see if you're in plano
and i'm in plano
are you in east plano or west plano
okay
well i'm in east plano i'm out in las [rios]
so it's bound to be different over here
oh
got a little sunburn
yeah
i worked around in the yard a little bit
and i've got sunburned a few years ago
and you know got one of those
what second or third degree burns and the doctor looked at it
and said don't ever
don't ever let that area get sunburned again
and uh it's got the you know the kind of the black [freckled] things on it
that the doctor looks at every once in awhile for that
what [melanoma] business
so i am super well if we go down to galveston to the beach or something like that you know i look kind of stupid i'm out there in a t shirt and everything
pretty much covered up
but uh you know i'm never going to let my shoulders and back get sunburned again
uh_huh
well it is march after all you know you're not supposed to worry about
sunburn
in march
that's right
yeah
well yeah
i hope so
yeah
we're going to go to lubbock
they'll probably have another [sandstorm] out there you know
big lubbock
yeah
are you a native type [planoite] or you been here a while
or
okay
well well where were you from originally
oh well i'm a tech graduate so
yeah
i grew up over in new mexico at [roswell] and my wife is from plains
if you know where plains is
it's on the
it's on the road when you go
well you go south out of lubbock down to [brownfield] and then you like you're headed over toward [roswell] plains is right there
uh about fifteen miles in from the new mexico line
so yeah
you talk of little towns in west texas
yeah
i'm
okay
yeah
i know where panhandle is
that's north up there isn't it
yeah
yeah
i had a friend who lived in dumas yeah
so anyway
yeah
we're kind of familiar with that part of the world now there's where the weather's interesting
i think it's kind of dull around here compared to
yeah
my mother still lives in lubbock
and we talked to her the other day
and they said friday they or thursday or friday they had you know one of the world class [sandstorms] out there that happens every once in awhile
hadn't had one like that in a couple of years
yeah
i recall a [snirtstorm] out there one day where about this time of year that there was a big cold front coming in
and they got the dirt up in the air and then it snowed a little bit
and uh i can imagine that happening more in amarillo than i could in lubbock
but still anywhere out there
it could happen
yeah
yeah
i we like i said i grew up in new mexico
we lived in albuquerque karen
and i both lived in albuquerque for quite a long time
and then i went to work for t i here
and i came here in sixty nine
and then in seventy two they opened or seventy three they opened up that plant out there in lubbock
and uh man that was like going home
and so went out there and were there for about ten years until that all folded up out there
ended up coming back
but uh yeah
the weather out there was uh_huh
it could get a little bit a little bit interesting
now and again
uh_huh
well if you've been here for three years
you didn't get here the year that had the big freeze and stuff here
did you what was that eighty
eighty four
oh wow
that would have been six or seven years ago
uh_huh
with the ice yeah
well the uh was it i guess it was three years ago that they had the real right before
was it right before christmas or
yeah
yeah
got down to around zero somewhere
warmed backup and killed everything off
that was that was bad news
we're still i set out a whole bunch of crepe myrtles and stuff
and of course it killed them
well they all come back from from the bottom
so i'm getting kind of convinced that if something doesn't grow naturally here there's no sense in planting it because eventually you're going to lose it
and you noticed all the pretty little trees that are out everything now the native trees
they're they they know better they know better yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well you're just about there
uh_huh
well we moved into this house it was a year old and the landscaping was semi in but there was still a lot more to do
and one of the things that uh
well they were really selling everybody on back then
was this indian hawthorne boy you know that's the best stuff in the world
well i am somewhat less than enthused about that
i've got some out here
that's five six years old now
and still doesn't look a whole lot different than the day
i put it in
i noticed that a lot of the garden
well you know that indian hawthorne that didn't work out quite as well as we thought
so now they're pushing something else
yeah
yeah
well anyway uh like i said if it doesn't grow out in the woods here somewhere
i'm not sure
that it's worth planting yeah
this uh [photinia] the red tipped bush
it seems to do pretty good
we've got some here
that's really taken off
that and uh the little dwarf yaupon hollies you know
they seem to or just [yaupons] period seem to do all right
and we've got a couple of live oaks in the front yard
and of course they're they weren't native to this particular spot
but they seem to have done pretty good
and uh
yeah
it's a strange one it will kind of scare you if you don't know what it's doing because right now is when it's dropping it's leaves
and you go out there
and you look at your tree after a good [windstorm] and the thing is bare and you think oh know look real close
and there's all the little new leaves getting ready to come out
so it holds it's leaves all winter then loses them in the spring
that and that red what is it red oak we're thinking about putting one of those in
uh_huh
well you know i heard something about that here whether neil uh here again
it may have been neil sperry they say you know everybody looks at these oaks and says yeah they grow slow and all that
but most of the time
that's the way that the native ones grow because they don't get the water
they don't get the so that they're growing under bad conditions
and uh if you bring one in or under good conditions they'll grow about as fast as any tree
yeah
anyway that's that was i guess he was talking about some of the other kinds of oaks
i don't know
whether the live the live [oak's] is not really an oak i guess it's something
yeah
it just got the the name of being an oak because it's got a kind of an [acorn] kind of thing on it
but uh i think the real honest to gosh oaks like the what [bur] oaks and pin oaks and red oaks and all that sort of thing
they they'll grow a lot faster
well i guess we were supposed to be talking about the weather
but that's
yeah
well are you you with t i
yeah
how many have you gotten very many of these calls at home
okay
well i got the first one this evening that i had gotten at home
i i had made a couple at work you know
made several from work
but i'd never uh i'd never gotten one yet
and i was just
yeah
yeah
well you know you'd think that this crazy system if you're going to talk about something about the weather they'd have tried to plug you in with plug you in to somebody like you know
new york or something
yeah
yeah
weather difference between east and west plano
clear across town
well when we lived in albuquerque there was such a elevation difference there that there was a weather difference between the valley and the heights
you know it would be snowing up in our area
and then the sun would be shining
and it would be hot down in the
hi [debbie] how are you
what do you think of this weather
oh i love it
yeah
yes
you can hear her huh
uh_huh
yeah
i have a four year old and a one year old
so uh yeah
i'm glad it was nice too
i got a chance to to go outside and just have a nice day
the um i remember last year wasn't it raining a lot this
yeah
all that flooding and everything
i'm glad we don't have that this year so far
uh_huh
we live just north of trinity mills and it floods there
you know quite a lot um it's not
it doesn't usually damage any businesses or anything
but you can't get off of thirty five
to um to go to home depot and that's a problem
yes
or target for that matter now
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
we're not from texas either
um we're
i grew up in pennsylvania
so
yeah
it it's not like this in pennsylvania
it's awfully hot
yeah
oh you're kidding
sure
oh i'm sure
i i think you would probably ooh
down here
yeah
i'd i think it's a necessity
we um we have uh i guess we bought the my car in colorado
that's where we we moved from
and uh so we we had a feeling we would be coming back this way
and again there
they don't sell all the cars with air conditioning
it's
you know it's really a not it's almost a luxury
we didn't have air conditioning in our house or anything
oh
yes
it does
no
i don't think so either
no
oh no
we didn't even have any of the famous dallas ice storms
no
isn't that surprising
uh_huh
oh
oh my gosh
well you know we lived in colorado for four years i guess
so
and we you know we had a lot of snow and i i really don't miss that
we had a big sidewalk and he didn't like that at all
but i don't know
oh definitely
uh_huh
that's right
it doesn't matter
right
colorado wasn't bad for that
because um it was so at least in colorado springs where we lived it was so sunny most of the time
that at right after it snowed it would almost always be a bright sunny day
and all of the roads would be clear you'd still have the snow on the yard
the kids could play in it
but it would be a bright sunny day and you know
it it would melt and you could drive around and it was really no big deal
yeah
yeah
really
that's good
they scaled down quite a bit
they have a lot of changes out there lately
that's true
certainly not [localized] but we i don't know
i i don't really miss the snow i miss the change of seasons myself
the fall is what i really miss from pennsylvania
yeah
it just turns brown and makes a mess
nothing pretty about it
my folks don't live in uh pennsylvania anymore
but for a long time
i would [purposely] go back and visit in october
just so i could see the trees and the fall
and such a pretty time
uh_huh
it really is
and i think you don't i growing up there
i just assumed that's how it was all over the country
i never really realized it was such a local thing i
yeah
nope
yeah
they they do
yeah
i do too
i'm ready to get outside and get the kids outside
and seems to even my one year old
it really changes her temperament she can be in here all grouchy
and put her outside and hey she's fine
uh_huh
my my son he was born in colorado and when we first moved here um he was three
i guess just turned three
and for the first week we were here it was over a hundred every single day
it was in july
and he was lethargic he
really
he wasn't used to the heat at all
he would go outside and he
would turn into a [zombie] and walk around like he didn't know what was going on
but he's used to it
now i think he's
i mean he certainly doesn't like the heat
but he doesn't become lethargic anymore
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's a good word for it
really hot
well it's been good talking to you
hopefully we'll have some more good weather
but we'll see
all righty
yep
uh yeah
we've been uh real lucky here
it was one of those days where you wish you uh you didn't want to have to go back into work
uh_huh
huh
yeah
yeah
i remember how the weather was when i was down there
i got a sunburn in february working on my uh my roof in a house in plano
so i uh i remember how it was
yeah
it's it's really great
um here on the east coast
we've you know we usually have the traditional april showers but it has
just been so unusually wet here
we've had all the rain that they [should've] had out in california
yeah
well that's great
yeah
i remember those yeah
well we moved into a new house uh at the end of february
and of course it's a new development and there's only one house in the whole thirty houses that are here that has grass
so everything
everything else is mud there's mud in the road
there's mud on the sidewalk there's mud in the house
i mean you just can't get away from it
and of course it's been you know ideal weather for grass to grow
and unfortunately they haven't gotten around to put they you know they were waiting until they got
i think the other two houses on the cul de sac on one done before they're going to plant all the grass at one time
so
uh_huh
you can put in any number of grasses up here uh a lot people like the red fescue they like to mix red fescue in with uh kentucky blue
um the uh my favorite is uh a zoysia grass
i when i lived in laura which is about sixty miles south of where i'm living now uh that my neighbor had it
and i was forever trying to get you know decent grass to grow in my yard and he talked me into trying to some plugs of the zoysia and i just loved it
because the zoysia you can uh you can quite literally just plug it around the yard and it just spreads and it [chokes] out the weeds and the weeds can't get in there and so you don't have to weed and feed and do all that other crazy stuff you just you know the only bad part about it is during the winter the grass is brown
but i mean you know
yeah
uh_huh
yes
it's pretty much standard now
well the uh the thing about uh maryland is um the last few years uh since i've been back
and uh it was like that
oh it started this way about mid seventies um we started having a very [abbreviated] spring
you would go from having fifty sixty degree days right into the eighty eighty five degree
days which you know in texas it's not bad because the humidity is real low
but here when the temperature is eighty degrees
the humidity is eighty
eighty per cent and and and worse
i mean i've seen days here when the humidity is like ninety three a hundred per cent
and it's just absolutely
the worst feeling in the whole world
uh not really
we had uh a couple uh real good snow storms
uh but they were the kind that came stayed for a couple of days
and then melted off and that's the
best kind to have around here
yeah
i remember the uh ice storm back in uh nineteen eighty eight
yeah
wow
jeez
oh god
uh_huh
yes
yeah
i remember that
wow
yeah
i noticed uh tonight
when i was out driving around that the uh the one of the main reservoirs in the county i live in is uh [fuller] that i've ever seen it
i mean it's it's up over its banks
but it's not that far over its banks
uh moved back here in uh eighty nine
yes
i spent two uh just about two years
exactly
in texas
yeah
i lived in plano
um worked at spring creek for a while and was on the moon job and then when my [clearance] came through for a p d i worked for d e s e g uh worked at north [billings] for a while and then down at love field
oh god don't
i tell you
it [spoils] you rotten to work there you
work there
and they send you any place else
it's like you've been [demoted] right
i had a uh a uh an employee that i hired though [lita] [mytek] um [lita] [mytek] i mean she uh she worked over in the building at center three i think it was
and uh you know she said she liked it over there
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
um i'd i'd prefer it not to be that hot
uh the days usually aren't aren't that bad
uh it's just when the humidity gets up
i mean it's like last week we had a day
it was i think it was eighty degrees
but the humidity for some strange reason was only nineteen per cent and that
yeah
that was a rarity for here
and
god it was just beautiful
okay
well you want to tell me about the weather
that's right
yeah
that's true lot of records i think
oh hasn't been bad so far
well yeah
i guess not
well how about somewhere else you been somewhere else lately
and what was the weather like there
you want to go back
right
did it rain every day it usually rains every day there
really
huh
uh_huh
did you go to uh what is it disney world
oh
oh really
and you didn't get to go huh
have you been there before
oh my gosh
have you been to the one in california
gosh
you have to go
it's just one of those things you have to see you know
yeah
yeah
um well we can't go very far with this subject
oh i don't know
hopefully not too bad
well bad enough so it kills all the fleas and bugs and whatever
we have to have a freeze for probably a week
but aside from that
i hope it's still warm not too maybe maybe
well maybe a little snow on christmas eve or something would be nice
but it doesn't look good
oh yeah
oh it was amazing
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
what restaurant is it
oh okay
all right
i work out in plano too
i was just wondering if uh you're near where i am
yeah
i remember going to work one day and just [crunching] on the stairs it was terrible
that's pretty bad for a restaurant
i guess
probably didn't have the business
huh well here we started to get some in the house now i wonder if it's because it's getting cool out
and they want to come in
yeah
yes
and into the house
oh huh
uh_huh
huh
yeah
i know i know i mean it sounds cool to say
but yeah
it was pretty
and we ended up spraying for them anyway after a while
i think
yeah
i bet you do
huh
you probably have to do that a lot of times during the year
don't you
oh oh
huh
wow
yeah
i guess you'd have to you don't want bugs in there
that's for sure
um
uh_huh
yeah
it'd be nice
yeah
that would be nice
yeah
well as long as i don't have to drive in it
that's that's the lousy part
oh well i'm not from here
but yeah
i never really did learn
i don't probably nothing
oh sounds good
well listen i enjoyed talking to you
and uh i hope we get a better subject next time
or at least someone on the other side of the country
so that you really can ask
yeah
well part is just whoever is around or has the right hours on their sheet
they can call because it's getting hard to find people now
takes a long time
well my weather right now it is rainy this is the most rain
i think we have ever seen uh over a twelve month period of time since i moved to uh to the texas area
uh i was uh i have seen climates uh both rather arid and and complete and total uh tropical so i have seen kind of the gamut
but this is starting to lean towards the uh tropical end
how about you
oh my
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh this is this is uh a neat year you missed the nineteen eight eight one uh uh mess the nineteen eighty summer that about [roasted] everybody
and then the eight one spring that uh where practically every lake in uh north north texas [overflowed] really
oh yes ma'am
well that was
that's pretty good
however the one in seventy nine and uh and uh seventy eight and seventy nine
uh [dwarfed] that one
yes ma'am
since uh you know i have been well the firm
i am with uh i have been with them them for twenty three years
so
and they are in the north texas area
so yeah
i have seen quite a bit of of weather uh patterns of course like i say uh when i was in the service
i got to see plenty of uh different uh [locals] as far as wet and dry uh climates
and uh uh i was kind of like you
i'm i didn't want to go back to colorado because because of the tremendous weather we had
uh no no no
oh okay
tampa florida
uh_huh
well let's see my in laws uh winter in the [leesburg] area
well it's uh in the orlando area
and tampa saint petersburg is not that super far away
yeah
something like that
i think we made to from their house to uh bush gardens in ninety minutes that day
well no no no no
no
not not at that not down that uh uh tollway
they've got
there's there's [smokies] you think our [smokies] are bad with uh uh our uh little [mustangs] that are hot rods they got them there too
oh yeah
i know we uh we were uh over run by one in uh we went down for christmas
and we were [cruising] along in our little rental car
and uh this this car comes over the hill and pass me
and it was one of those puppies and he was flat moving
yeah
yeah
he's he pulled he pulled one over and was uh [stead] having a little chat about something other than the weather
that's for sure
because i mean he didn't look happy when we went by
so i don't know maybe it was uh who knows
but anyway this weather here is is certain [evolved] from a dryer hotter uh nineteen eighty to uh the present the last summer we had
i think we barely what cleared a hundred
i think that was stretching it
oh well believe you me
i i'm not not
[advocating] cold summers no no no no no no
wrong wrong wrong
but uh uh the summer of nineteen eighty we saw one hundred fifteen and one hundred sixteen
and i was running a little heating and air conditioning business at the time
well uh what happened there was that most of our everybody's customers uh down here about april start to call call call you know call their local guys
and we go out and tune up the systems
and we are normally expecting some hundred hundred degree days
so we tune for that
so we had everybody nice in tune when the hundred and fifteen degree weather hit and so the only thing that got replaced were the weak systems you know that would barely make it at one hundred
but when the hundred and fifteen degree days hit well it just couldn't couldn't handle the load and they then they then the [compressors] blew like popcorn
i mean just pop pop bang bang
texas
boy oh boy that's nice and warm
what's the humidity like
not like
right
so at the pretty average for this time of the year
yes
course don't you have some uh was it tornado watches not too long ago or hurricane or something
maybe it wasn't right in dallas
but uh the flash flash floods or
it's built up so much
right
right
don't think where it's going to have to go huh
if it comes pretty quickly
and twin falls
that's kind of by uh have you heard of sun valley or boise
oh have you
then you know where i am
yeah
it's kind of pretty
we don't have uh any snow on the ground
it's probably in the forties
are you
so that's a real switch though from seventy five in the morning to thirty at night though
we we probably go from the forties to the twenties
right
maybe do you need a jacket and that does it
you don't know what it is
huh
everybody around here is going crazy because they want a white christmas
and they're pretty
they're they they're the type of thing you only want to have once they're not as fun to drive in
but they're sure
and uh you just don't know exactly what to expect when it goes like that
do you kind of
stays that way
and the snow usually stays right
then it shoots back up
this uh our area pretty much you get
oh we got snow for thanksgiving and about three days later
it was all gone
so uh it doesn't stick around very long
we've only lived here four and a half years
and uh it's been fairly mild from what i understand uh they've they've talked about being snowed in and and we've never had a bad bad winter
right
you think that's making a difference
than you used to
i think the weather seems like it's changed everywhere a little bit hasn't it
just uh real peculiar peculiar and not normal
right
right
we got a lot of the effects from that
and that's hard to believe
isn't it
you wouldn't you wouldn't think we could even be
okay
well now i'm from dallas
well actually i'm living in dallas
i'm not from dallas
i uh was living in west texas before this
which is a very dry arid well obviously it's kind of a desert area
uh_huh
real close
new mexico anyway
well dallas is
since i've moved up here now
so i'm beginning to get a little bit of this
but i'll tell you uh considering well okay
i've uh mostly throughout my life
i've lived in in the smaller parts of of texas
and so moving to dallas i was a little worried about the traffic um the differences in terrain because uh you know dallas is is a lot more hilly than it is where i i was living
and i had just bought a new car
and it had uh had standard on you know standard
and i had never had a standard car before
right
so i mean i was real worried about having a lot of ice and things like that
we just had a wonderful winter
i mean there was one or two days of ice the entire winter
i mean we had cold weather we had a little bit of snow here and there
but i mean i couldn't have asked for better first year of getting used to dallas
and my car at the same time
i mean it just worked out great
oh well today
it was probably in the eighties um
well yeah
we've had uh we've had several days in the eighties in fact i'll tell you what last night i came real close to turning on the air conditioning i didn't do it
i didn't do it
but i came close
uh_huh
i would imagine yes
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
well i heard the uh that um washington d c has actually got the cherry blossoms blooming
so so that's
well yeah
it's
i heard that
uh_huh
well that's that's sort of what happens here
except uh we may start a little earlier and end a little later
but uh
yeah
they've been they've actually been going at it for a good you know four weeks now i would think
you know
in fact it's kind of funny uh you know you're watching the [newscast] i don't know about way up they are up there
but the weather cast down here one of the things that they like to do is to tell you
what's all in the air you know the fungus and the trees you know what the
yeah
well but mostly it's you know allergy type [index] and it's been like like i said about four weeks now that they've had um multiple pages of things
and you know of of names of things in the air
and uh you know
so that's a real good sign that that the trees are in bloom
and the flowers are in bloom
and stuff like that
pollen count yeah
exactly
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well it's it's um
it depends on what part of the south
i think the farther east you go
you know from from here on east uh you do have a limited winter
um now south of here
uh like in houston
i did even though i said i lived mostly in the small towns i lived a short time in houston
it was winter
and you know the coldest day we got down there was like in the sixties
you know when it got down in the sixties you were cold down there
yeah
yeah
the
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yes
it's a big difference
i have a one of my friends is from kansas city
and uh he has lived down here for like eleven years
but he refuses to get to to where everybody else is i mean he will not wear long sleeve shirts he will not wear you know jackets and things like that
i mean he's the only person i know that in thirty degree weather still has a short sleeve shirt on you know
um but it you know it's still not cold cold here
compared to what he's used to
uh_huh
well i think that's true
yeah
i mean uh i grew up with a lot of trees around
and then i lived out like i said in west texas where it's desert
and there's not a lot of trees
and that's the main reason i moved up here was that i did not i mean i hated seeing you know no trees
i mean it's just you could stand on a [rooftop] and see for miles and miles
well now that's that's not necessarily true
there are people that are born out there that can't stand it here
they they feel [claustrophobic] around trees
i thought that was hilarious
when i first heard it
but i mean i heard it from more than one person
so it's got to be somewhat true
exactly
yeah
see i wouldn't have thought from the beginning but i've talked to so many people about it that it makes sense
now i guess
i agree
i agree
but i wouldn't mind having an area with ocean
but we won't get involved in that
yeah
yeah
that sounds good
uh_huh
okay
well it was nice talking to you too
uh well let's see
it's been cloudy today
and
no
not very much
we've had a little bit of [sprinkles] but for the most part
it's uh pretty dry out there
we didn't have a whole lot
we just get a little bit
a lot of [dew] this morning
oh okay
yeah
yeah
it definitely is warmer
and then there's a lot of difference between the plano weather and the uh dallas weather
uh_huh
yeah
there's a there's like a five degree difference between like if you leave t i the central expressway site
and you go north at about the richardson plano border
there's a distinct change in the it's usually about five degrees cooler
uh_huh
about five degrees usually most of the time you can definitely tell a pronounced difference
no
the only thing i figure is that maybe it's because there is more concrete that absorbs heat and things like that
and down there there's a lot more uh natural stuff like you know trees and parks and things like that up here and everything
but there is a difference
uh when i used to drive a convertible all the time i'd have the top down and maybe it was sixty in dallas
and then i'd drive up in plano
and it would be like uh gosh i'm cold you know
turn the heat on or something
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
probably more rain and everything
because i think you get you would get hit more by it was more like west right of dallas
just straight north
no little m
okay north north okay
yeah
there i know most of the stuff seems to kind of peter out before it really gets into dallas and a lot of it just kind of [phases] away you know a lot of times you'll hear it's real bad over in uh fort worth too
yeah
me too
i've planted a bunch of roses outside
and so i'd like to i'd like to get the rain because i'm getting tired of watering
oh really
is it really what kind is it
um
oh the little metal tag and everything
oh yeah
well we planted something like thirty of them
this year
no no um
they're all growing
and i've got buds on quite a few of them
so i'm hoping that in about another week or two i'll have lots of blooms i'm going to i'm going to put some in the house
but i'm going to bring a lot of them into work because hey you spend a lot of time at work
and so that's
the place where you kind of like them
but oh yeah
i love them
and then just i'm on a test a rose test panel this year for a national company and uh they send you roses that only have numbers
no names they're brand new [hybrids] and they send them to you
and you you know it's like well what do you think of the rose do you like the leaves do you like this
and
well i go through a i get a lot a lot of advertising and stuff from jackson and perkins roses that's who does this
and um i go ahead and they send me some well this year they sent me the test panel thing
because i always get a lot of roses from them
and so they sent it to me
and and i said oh yeah
that will be cool one of them
there's four that they send and i've got one that's going to be pink one that's going to be white no
i take it back
one that's going to be yellow uh one that's going to be red and white
and one that's going to be pink and white
so i'm anxious to see what they look like
because that's all they tell you they just say well they're supposed to be these colors they don't tell you which ones are supposed to be which so i've got these planted out there that have numbers
and i've got the little form i'm supposed to fill out and write all my opinions and stuff on it
and so it's just this is before they even are named like you know you can suggest names for them because of what you think and things like that
and then they um you know then they let you know you write in and they let you know later on what the general results are throughout the united states
oh no
we have a tiny yard
oh it's going to be it's going to be really neat
it really is
and so i'm really excited about it because it's
we have the bed for them
we dug up the soil
i mean we the took the soil up and like two feet by two feet down and you know the [bed's] pretty big
especially the long one that has that has all the regular roses in it
it's real big
it stands about forty feet on one side of of our fence
but we have the perfect yard for it because the sun comes up in the morning and strikes the back yard all morning until you know about
about two o'clock in the afternoon
so we get
uh_huh
oh really
right
it bakes the front yard
so is your is uh so is your front like facing kind of north too like northwest
just due west because see we get the afternoon sun the the front of our house also gets hit blasted by the north wind so the front
so the front of our house is kind of [angled] kind of strange
i mean we're facing kind of
like north northwest
and so the back is is like southeast and so we get
we get really horrendous weather in the front of our house
you know because we get you've got to have something out there that can protect itself from the north because the cold hits us
and then it bakes us in the summer
and the backyard is great because we get all the [southerly] winds back there
and so they're not blowing as hard
and uh then we get the eastern sun
so the [backyard's] great for growing stuff
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
well they can take they can take a lot of heat and a lot of sun the red ones don't tend to do as well the blooms out like in extreme heat because they tend to turn black
so if if you're looking you know plant some of your uh your pinks and your [yellows] tend to do really good in extreme fertilizer
whereas your whites and your reds tend to do better
like say with an eastern exposure
so they don't bake as much
so that's a little something i've been doing a lot of research and a lot of reading
because i i like to grow i like to grow the roses outside and then i grow african violets inside
oh really
uh_huh
that's all all i do is i water mine once a week
and they are kind of like [succulents] so if you kind of forget to water them a little bit sometimes they'll be okay
but the problem i think most people have with african violets is that they water them too much
and uh they are susceptible to [rotting] and so when there is too much water they die
that's that's what really kills them if there's too much water
yes
well when the leaves get sort of when they're not real stiff anymore
then they really need water
i mean you know i've used up all my water give me some that type of thing
but uh yeah
that's something you know i have lots of lots of babies lot of little baby african violets and stuff because i break off a leaf and i start them off a leaf and stuff
oh yeah
yeah
and they're they're just stick them in some soil
and you kind of cover it up with a plastic bag or something with little holes in it because it creates a kind of a little greenhouse when you do that
and it keeps the humidity high
and after about three or four weeks it's already established a root system
and you can take the little bag off and then just keep watering it
and then after about about eight weeks after you take off the plastic bag
you'll see leaves coming out
and uh it'll it'll grow leaves and you've got sometimes you've got more than one plant you'll have several plants that will form off of that one leaf yeah
it works great you know i've got
and my problem is i've got more than i know what to do with
where do you live
oh
oh
oh my word
yeah
well we've had unseasonably warm weather here in texas we
um last week
it was i believe
um i believe it was monday or tuesday we had had ninety four degrees
uh_huh
um i grew up in wyoming
so i you know we had
i didn't mind the heat then
um the summertime the summer's here get heat real hot and i have a hard time with those
but i get use to them
you just kind of stay indoors
um
this time of year sixties and you know stuff like that
so
today
i think it's about sixty five today here something like that
so
uh_huh
yeah
it's
yeah
my husband's outside in a short sleeve shirt right now working in the garden
and we've planted our garden
and
yeah
we've been you know we've been working in the yard and our peach [tree's] blooming
so we have very warm weather here right now
compared to what you're having
i grew up in you know i grew in wyoming i remember ice storms
and we get ice storms here
but we haven't had one in you know in a long time
but um the lowest temperature that it gets here um in the wintertime this winter we had um some temperatures get below zero and and then with the wind chill it got lower
but that was it was you know it doesn't you know it was real unusual
um
um are people going to work around there in this
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
you know when we get snow and ice here
it just shuts down the city
yeah
because nobody knows how to drive in it
so when you get
i mean here they start even to forecast the weather you know it's going to be an ice storm tomorrow
they'll come before the ten clock news they've already got schools calling in saying they've canceled yeah
they don't even wait around here to see if they canceled it
they call them
the night before
and and we've had you know say that they're going to be get this real bad ice storm
and um it's beautiful
the next day
the weather here is so unpredictable you know i don't even put much stock in the weather reports
because they're hardly ever accurate
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh
yeah
they wait a little bit of rain here
and they a it's going to freeze
and the sand trucks are out
yeah
we have you know it gets even in a [rainstorm] here that roads get so slick you know not even cold weather
but just rain because the roads get so [oily] that uh we've had you know twelve car pile ups
on the free ways
because they don't slow down for nothing around here
so
oh no
no
i'm talking to my daughter
she wanted her shoe off
i'm sorry
no
no
i was talking my little girl wanted her shoes off
uh
uh_huh
you don't even have power back to your house yet
my word
yeah
oh
oh
you need to stock up to batteries then
uh_huh
destroyed
yeah
you have to have some food to eat because the grocery probably ran out real fast
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh well
yeah
yeah
because it's beautiful here today i haven't gone outside been too busy working inside
but it's beautiful here
oh
oh
yeah
it's amazing how it can be so different in one part of country
because i have family in boston too
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
but going through it is so much different
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
because his family my husband's family lives in um anaheim california you know just a couple you know miles from disneyland
and so it's amazing how it you know it can be cold here and beautiful there
yeah
uh_huh
you could never get use to that kind of weather
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
that's how it was in wyoming too
you just you know it was always cold and then you can you only had um two or three months that you could plant a garden
and here we can get three gardens in a year
we can replant three times a year and get stuff
pretty windy
yeah
so far
yeah
oh yeah
oh really
uh_huh
right
well you know they said that we haven't had enough rain though
and that surprises me because seems like we've had a lot of rain this year
but since we've uh last i heard that we hadn't met our you know hadn't got up to the right level yet that we right
well it truly surprises me because it seems like we seems like we do get a lot of rain
but i guess not
i guess it doesn't accumulate too much
but um i'm glad it's summer
me too
yeah
i don't either
i want some you know ski or something you know i'm [benefitting] from it
i guess
in a way i just i really like the summer like uh be able to lay out or you know just be outside
yeah
i know it seems like you can never get warm enough to me
i do too
yeah
yeah
that's true
that's true
that's true
uh_huh
uh_huh
i do like um like an old uh warm summer the breezes that it gets at night you know you can open your windows and
oh
and that gets those nice warm breezes coming in and that's nice
and that helps on utilities yeah
and that's especially in garland
it's real bad
yeah
yeah
well we didn't have much we had some good ice but not a lot
thank goodness not
yeah
sure have how about you
are you serious
ugh
um are you serious
um
gosh
oh that's horrible
oh i hate that that's horrible
right
right
well that's true
well a friend of mine went home this weekend
uh he lives up in the pan handle
and um he went home for easter
and it snowed up there
and then the next day
it was up to seventy five
yeah
that would be horrible
i wouldn't like that where you just can't depend on it
yeah
yeah
it's just real comfortable here where we live and that's the way i like it
i like being able to depend on a hot summer
and you know it it gets cold enough in the winter to where you
yeah
and you can do your fires and everything
and then move on
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
i don't either
yeah
yeah
i wouldn't mind some you know like i guess after awhile in the summer when it hits i guess about october
and you get a few cool days
i don't mind that because it kind of gives you some relief you know that's nice
yeah
yeah
they really are
yeah
and all the trees and plants are coming out
thank goodness
and grass for a change
i got i get sick of winter just looking everything is so dead
i hate that
so
yeah
yeah
it really is
it's just an old gray looking sky and it's boring
really
i guess it wouldn't be bad if you i guess up north
it wouldn't be bad to visit
and we we love to go skiing and um now it's beautiful
when it snows and you have all those pine trees and everything that is pretty
but i sure couldn't live there
yeah
i guess so
warmed i guess so
uh
gosh
uh
uh_huh
that's right
yeah
right
i don't blame you
i would too
i do hate that feeling though it
it
yeah
yeah
my fingers always get get it real bad
i hate that
i mean i bundle them up and everything
and and i i still get it
i guess i can bare the cold it's just when it does the wind hits
oh that just feels like it goes all the way to the bone
it does
yeah
it hurts exactly hurts i hate it
well me either
it's kind of a boring topic i guess
all right
i'm through
how has your weather been recently
record what
oh wow
that's something
we've had a really wonderful spring
it's been rainy it's been comfortable
it's been cool
and we've only had a couple of really severe weather storms
which is unusual for northeast texas generally we have some you know there's there's always at least one or two good hail storms before the season ends
yeah
last thursday though it was just raining buckets and it was probably in the low eighties
it was really a nice late spring day very comfortable just really was nice had plenty of rain
and within three days time all of that moisture is gone the sun has come out and it is hot
i mean big time hot the air [conditioners] in the buildings are saying oh no
not again
uh_huh
i can imagine
well typically though
what does your weather run when does your spring actually start
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh wow
right
oh boy
i know it's been about eight years ago i guess now right here in dallas
i guess it was late may temperatures got up into the nineties
and by early june
it was rocking a hundred
and it stayed that way until september
we had ninety one consecutive hundred degree days
and i didn't know whether we would survive at all
oh but
well actually you know we affect our humidity a great deal this at one time wasn't a real humid area
but we've built a lot of lakes and a lot of reservoirs and that increases the relative humidity
i mean if it's there to evaporate it's going to go up into the air and the hotter it gets the more [evaporates] well we have attempted to [reforest] some areas
but as a matter of fact at one time
this was uh a very dense forest in this area
and for farming
and for construction and things
a lot of the forests have been cut down
and then of course you know they [bulldozed] a bunch of forest when they dug out the reservoir moisture but for the most part
we have very mild winters here we may get one snow storm
i may actually see white on the ground one day
but if even [ices] over a half an inch worth of ice or just a little bit of snow man businesses close down traffic comes to a [snarl] i mean nothing happens if it gets enough snow you can see it on the ground
um god
yeah
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
oh yeah
that's true
they sure do
you know one of the things i have noticed is that the weather changes over time as well
i was raised in amarillo
and i can remember when there was really only one snow storm a year in amarillo it started in october and stopped in march or april
and it you know there stayed snow on the ground all winter long
to to some depth
but actually that has changed considerably uh the winters are no less cold
but they're dryer
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
oh wow
that's something
well i don't think there was a single day out this year for our kids they i don't they don't put ten in there i think they put three
but good grief here three days for snow days actually one year before last
they took a snow day because it was flooding
it was a spring flood
and they just couldn't get to school
so they just canceled school
there's just too many we're in a very uh they're low hills you don't notice them because of the trees and because of the so many buildings built around
but there's a lot of hills around here which means there's a lot of [gullies] which means there's a lot of creeks and a lot of flooding
and uh that can create almost as a big hazard and i drive a little nissan when it floods it [drowns] well yes
uh any time there's a storm there's going to be plenty of it
yeah
one of the uh_huh
yeah
right
oh goodness
it really does climb fast didn't it
well i am a little bit concerned this last week our temperatures did not drop down below the upper seventies at night which means that
you know we could be looking for a very warm summer
i really don't want that
oh
um
oh my goodness
that's right
okay charles uh gun control  
what are you uh for in favor or no comment  
oh you are  
well this should be very interesting   because i'm against it  
well you know uh now here's something that uh first occurred to me when they started having all these problems with these automatic uh weapons  
uh now there always has been a federal law against fully automatic weapons  
and yet their uh the gun control enthusiasts are are uh [preaching] about the gun control and how they should be we should have stronger laws and what not  
i don't understand why we don't enforce the laws we have  
now this is not just a state law  
this is a federal law   controlled by the treasury department   uh for fully automatic weapons  
and uh all right now for instance   in california where they passed the uh uh semiautomatic  
or or uh now what was it they called them  
the military version attack weapons   or something  
uh how is that going to affect the uh sports weapons i mean rifles   that are automatic or semiautomatic  
uh_huh  
well now uh i've got to admit i'm inclined to agree with you there   uh even though i am a member of the n r a  
and they are they their reason being that well if you let one little law get through pretty soon one's going to stack up on top of another   and so forth and so on  
and you've got to admit that congress does kind of look at things that way  
uh  
that that's true  
uh now did you hear about the the control that they have up in virginia  
uh it it's it's a little hard to believe  
but they can uh of course  
like just like just about every other state in the union they have a felony law  
anyone ever convicted of a a felony is cannot purchase a weapon  
and they don't have a waiting period because they have access to computer records concerning all these felons  
and  
uh when you go in and buy a weapon or a handgun in uh uh virginia the salesman just calls some number and uh [punches] in your name  
and if it comes up negative okay fine  
and you get your your gun right then and there  
uh but they are the only state that does it  
and uh according to virginia it didn't cost all that much  
and frankly i i don't understand why a state doesn't have those records available anyway  
uh uh at least   uh records of of uh known felons   which are available to local police departments  
uh uh uh certainly those those records are available  
and all they would have to do is expand it   to uh uh well connect them into a modem somehow  
well virginia is not a particularly rich state  
and they managed to [squeak] out a few bucks to do it  
and uh it's uh uh one hundred percent successful  
yeah  
i just heard about this last week  
uh they were bragging about it  
with  
uh uh they should have have pride in this because it's it's a good system  
and it's working well  
and they don't need that seven day waiting period  
because the whole idea of that waiting period was   so that uh it uh the police could check up on you  
well you know what's going to happen there  
those files are going to back up on somebody's desk just some of that typical bureaucratic work  
that's another uh uh [thorn] in my side   [bureaucratics]   politicians  
so anyway   well we seem to be one in favor and one against  
although neither one of us are are uh really uh uh [dyed] in the wool  
uh we  
but we both  
well there should be some way of checking  
now here in in texas uh all you need is a driver's license  
and uh even felons can still get a driver's license  
so i i don't think they are too  
well they're not rigid enough here in texas  
but don't tell the n r a i said that  
they're liable to tear up my membership  
you say you retired a year ago  
i'm looking forward to it in about a just just over a year myself  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
well uh i bought a motor home here four years ago  
and i have been living in it ever since  
and i'm looking forward to just traveling  
i have four sons scattered all over the country   and a few grandchildren  
and i'm looking forward to just traveling around visiting them  
well charles good luck to you on your  
yeah  
nice talking to you   too  
take care now  
bye  
i'm very much in favor of gun control  
yes  
i am  
i don't i don't mind people owning guns  
i just think it should be a little you know a little a little more regulated  
yes  
i believe that's correct  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that would certainly help  
i'm sure  
uh_huh  
yep  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
i really don't have any problem jack with you know uh people using firearms for sporting purposes  
i don't have any problem  
the only thing i  
i am in favor of the seven day waiting period  
i would like to see that see that happen  
i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i understand that  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i i like i say i don't have any problem with people using firearms you know for sporting purposes or hunting purposes  
i just think it's just may be a little too easy you know to acquire one   on on a whim of some sort  
i'm not sure i have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
hm that's interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you would think they would  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i'm surprised that more states doesn't do that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
i wouldn't think it'd be that difficult to do  
yep  
right  
hm that's interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
absolutely  
yeah  
i agree  
uh_huh  
yep  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
i agree  
yep  
right  
i was   just thinking there's  
yeah  
i guess that's about right  
uh  
yeah  
i'm not totally rigid on the subject  
i just think there should be you know shouldn't be quite so easy to do  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sure uh  
yeah  
that's true  
i  
i promise  
i won't  
okay  
i promise  
yes  
i did  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i really enjoy it  
i stay pretty busy  
i do quite a not quite a lot  
i do some uh volunteer work here in plano  
i i have a few uh handicapped persons that i you know try to do things for help them do  
uh_huh  
that's uh  
sure  
i can understand that  
uh_huh  
yep  
that'd be neat  
sure would  
okay  
nice talking to you  
okay  
take care  
bye bye  
okay  
well what do you think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
that's true  
right  
that's true  
right  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but he has to go out and do it  
that's true i think  
right  
and see that's my only problem with uh  
making you um  
you know get the check and everything is is i guess bad guys if you want to call them bad guys  
they are going to get a gun no matter what  
they're not  
i don't think they're going to go to a gun store or [pawn] shop and get it the right way when there's a check  
i think they're going to go out and find it someway individual sale or something like that  
yeah  
i hope  
that's true  
knife  
exactly  
he's going to do what he wants to do  
that's true  
i i just think it makes honest people more honest  
and  
right  
right  
and if you have to have it in a hurry something's wrong  
that's right  
that's right  
well i'm married to a policeman  
so we we talk about this a lot  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i was watching a  
worried about that  
yeah  
they do  
they do  
right  
right  
or even even the um the little um toy guns look real  
i mean  
i've heard so much about that on tv  
and that's kind of scary to think that you may be shot for holding one  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
i mean you can't blame them  
it looks   like they've got a weapon  
that's right  
exactly  
right  
and i think that's a good idea  
that's right  
i know  
right  
right  
a gun is a gun to them  
they can play with anything and make it a gun  
that's exactly right  
right  
right  
exactly  
that's right  
that's a good idea  
i was uh watching t v yesterday  
and there is a town in georgia  
and it's the law that you have a gun  
every adult you know uh is able to carry a gun  
and   and they encourage it  
yeah  
and the police love it  
which really surprised me  
and and i think and that's what they were going after uh they went to interview this town  
i mean it's a little [dinky] town  
they went to interview them about the gun control laws  
and uh the police said all the people said that's fine we could care less  
you know we're all honest and everything like   that  
we we all carry them  
but we we don't mind being checked  
and uh and i think it kind of took that uh [neatness] away from it you know  
like well heck everybody's got one you know  
and   so it was it was quite unusual to see the people in that town  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
that's what we're doing  
oh yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
well that's neat  
well that's real neat  
yeah  
right  
well that's real good  
right  
right  
and they usually are real basic   common sense things  
i know  
and people don't want to believe that  
yeah  
well see i  
in the chamber that's exactly right  
yeah  
well we we're trying to teach our daughter  
she knows real well about uh about her daddy's guns   what not to do and what to do around them  
yeah um  
and and she and she's real  
um she'll know  
she'll even tell her friends don't ever   touch my daddy's guns or something like that  
so she's real she's real good about it  
and she's never been curious  
i mean cause he's always you know  
if he has them out cleaning them you know she can be there  
and he'll tell how he's doing it or you know show her the insides or stuff like that  
to be [feared]  
and  
right  
exactly  
right  
they'd have that respect for what it does   and what it can do  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
still  
uh_huh  
right  
he's got to go to a lot of trouble  
yeah  
hold on  
hold on  
he's in here somewhere  
i know he is  
yeah  
well i know how to use one  
we we go hunting every once in a while  
and he showed me how to use his guns  
and i really enjoy it  
but boy if someone did break in i don't i don't know that i could or would even grab it  
uh_huh  
that's true  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
right  
true  
true  
well we we have dogs   that are pretty you know very protective you know  
yeah  
if they're stupid enough to come through then  
yeah  
yeah  
they've got to be pretty stupid  
and and most people that uh break in or whatever go to houses without the dogs   luckily  
right  
and that's one of them  
so  
well  
yeah  
really does  
well do you think we've  
me too on gun control  
yeah  
i think we are  
right  
right  
i'm glad you're not  
okay  
well good  
you too  
thanks  
bye bye  
well i'm kind of leaning towards i don't know i'm thinking about what from one to ten what my no would be  
it would probably be somewhere closer to uh less control because i don't see  
i'm not a member of the n r a although my   father is  
but i guess i believe i think the n r a has gone overboard the wrong way you know  
they're sitting there on number ten  
they're saying absolutely no gun control   we don't even want to think about it  
and and i think that's a dumb   situation  
because there has got to be some kind of background check to see   that the people who are buying a gun are buying it for a useful purpose you know if if you're going to hunt with it   or if you're going to do sport shooting you can wait a week  
it's not a big deal for them to go  
if they're can check your drivers license every time you get a ticket you know i mean they should be able to go back and find out if you've had any kind of [psychiatric] record   armed you know felony record  
any of that kind of stuff  
and it seems to me right now that there's not there's not that much of a check  
i i'm not really sure what texas law i think there's a check for felonies on your record  
if the gun shop owner does it  
you know but  
yeah  
if and if it's a private sale of course then there's nothing  
uh_huh  
yes  
but but maybe we'll prevent a few john [hinckley's]  
you know i i  
that that's the kind of people  
like i say i don't think the guy who's going to rob a seven eleven is going to rob a seven eleven whether he has a gun or a knife baseball bat   or you know whatever  
but you know   yeah  
and and the people who want it it's not that big a deal like i say to wait  
yeah  
it makes you wonder   what they need it for all of a sudden here um  
oh  
yeah  
i i imagine his his opinion is a little bit towards the one there   on the   scale of one to ten he needs some more  
gosh  
if i was a cop i would be  
too many people have too many too much access  
and i guess i think the other thing that we ought to control to some extent is there should be some law against the types of  
i mean   some of these saturday night specials that these companies put out   that are i mean they're are  
basically it says here buy me and go rob a seven eleven  
yes  
they that's really gotten bad  
or your child   [accidently]  
if your child is old enough  
i mean there are a lot of kids who when they're ten look like they're twelve   or fourteen or and and especially some of the minority children whether   you know a racist or not  
that's the truth  
and and if some of them are doing something that they shouldn't be and then they have one of those toy guns in their hands  
and a cop comes up  
you can't  
jeez and you can't take the chances  
because there's been kids that age who have killed people  
and you know you know there was a law in i think it's in oregon where they've now made all toy guns  
they're making them neon colors  
you know like yeah  
and the kids don't care  
my kid didn't care  
he picks up a stick and goes bang  
it doesn't make any difference to him  
yeah  
yeah  
so you like to do  
i think they ought to do that with toy guns  
they ought to make them very reasonably   do something outrageous to them  
you know so that they're not very [distinguishable] from a real gun  
that's kind of  
they encourage it  
um  
huh  
i don't know  
i  
that's kind of an odd thing  
i don't know  
i have a gun  
and uh my folks have always had  
i learned to shoot when i was real little  
i think that's a lot of it too is that people need to teach their kids   what not to what to do and what not to do  
because i started shooting my dad started letting me shoot like a little air b b gun   when i was probably five or six years old  
but you know it was  
this is how you hold  
it this is the only place that you do it which was   you know out far and away  
and you don't ever touch it unless i'm here  
and you don't   you don't point it at people  
and then they had  
then they went to the texas parks and recreation i guess  
but anyway the hunter safety program   that you have to do now  
i think it started in about nineteen seventy  
if you want if you want to go deer hunting  
and your [birthday's] after nineteen something   fifty five or something then you have to attend one of these hunter safety courses  
or you can't get a deer license  
and it and it it's basic stuff  
it's like it's don't you know when you're climbing over a [barbed] wire fence don't point lean your gun against it you know  
and then you crawl over it   and shoot yourself  
and uh   those things happen  
it it is always incredible to me the number of times those kind of stupid accidents happen to people  
yeah  
put the safety on the gun  
don't assume always assume it's loaded  
that's that's got to be the most common thing that people  
yeah  
it's oh it's empty  
it's empty  
boom  
i took the clip out or whatever  
and i forgot about the one in the chamber  
oh  
oh yeah  
does he got them locked up all the time too  
when he's  
don't even think about it  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
if you make it where it's not something   curious  
not something to be curious about and not something to be totally scared about  
if it if it's just one more piece of something  
but they but they've got to understand like you said never touch it  
yeah  
ours is a  
we have a shotgun  
and it's up in the closet  
and then the shells are in another part  
and it's something to think about  
and i got it because my husband used to travel and be out  
he was out of the country at one time for three months  
and i was like i live in a nice neighborhood  
but still  
and then i've got it so far  
sometimes i think i wonder if i i'm not about to load it because i you know i assume that the kids are not going to ever get up there  
and it's in a case  
and it's you know it's put up  
and it's away and all that  
but i don't want to take the chance  
and i think if somebody ever does break in   it's going to take me a year to find the shells   and then get it  
yeah  
right  
i know  
i i used to think about that  
it was a lot easier when i was when i was single  
it was one thing  
and when i was just married with no kids   when it was just me it was an easy decision  
it was like you you come after me you're going to get it   you know  
and now there's so many other things where are the kids what are they doing   you know where is this person coming in from  
uh you've got  
and and if if you manage to get it out  
and then you know what how can you even afford to to think about what what you're going to do because you don't know where your kids are   at the same time  
ugh  
we feel if they make enough noise that  
yeah  
it it  
we have two big dogs in the backyard   and always kind of thought that too kind of an extra buffer  
yeah  
anything that the  
well any any advantage that they can take  
unfortunately  
yeah  
guess it makes it worth the dog food over the years  
yeah  
i i think that's about all i can  
we we're in pretty good agreement actually on it  
it would be an interesting it would be even more interesting you you to be some of these people who are at the other end of the spectrum  
me too  
i'm glad to find there's another reasonable person in garland  
well it's been nice talking to you  
bye bye  
well stephanie what's your position on gun control  
uh_huh  
now was that just on handguns or was that on rifles  
really  
and that didn't help at all  
huh  
uh_huh  
i usually just  
i'm trying to think of  
i guess i would tend myself to be more towards the the like three   where i don't think you should necessarily ban guns any by any means  
but you should definitely have the character search and the seven day holding period and things along that nature uh  
you know you shouldn't be able to go out there and just buy one and you know right off the shelf  
and but  
uh_huh  
exactly  
and so i think that kind of control is would be good  
but the uh  
i you know i'm trying to think of how many times you make the statement and just to kind of [exam] it a little bit  
and i i know that any statement in [absoluteness] is not necessarily true uh  
only the guns were in the hands of the criminals  
but how many times  
i guess i have never heard of a a robbery being [foiled] or spoiled because the person who's being robbed had a gun  
and maybe they just don't report those  
or i'm not sure  
or you know i can't think of ever hearing on the news or whatnot or hearing or knowing anybody who was being robbed  
but good thing they had their gun on them  
and they they [thwarted] the robbery attempt  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
true  
did did you were you brought up in a family that hunted  
or  
how about that  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh jeez  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
i've also always thought about the idea you know most sports you know which are the n r a and people have their thing you know  
if you ban guns you're just banning the the recreation the sport of hunting things of that nature  
most of that's done with rifles and such uh though there's you know probably i'm sure some sector that does it with handguns  
but just by the [mere] fact of [outlawing] handguns would make it so that it would be not as [conspicuous]  
you couldn't be [inconspicuous]   when you walked into a store stuff like that  
you could see someone coming or dressed [inappropriately] you know  
if they had to have a rifle or was  
you know made it more difficult to get a a uh a handgun  
now of course you know in this world anytime you've freedom you can be able to get anything you want  
but i guess to make it more difficult for the person who's just so irate and upset and you know temporarily a little bit uh offset or off keel  
i don't know if that's a large percentage of uh crime or not  
but i guess it would be some  
but i i think definitely  
like today they just introduced the what's called the brady bill the seven day mandatory waiting period   on getting any guns  
and i think that   shoot that's a good idea  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's crazy  
yeah  
that's kind of kind of wild  
uh_huh  
that is kind of wild  
well that's all very interesting  
well thanks for talking  
good bye  
well on a scale of one to ten uh being ten no kind of legislation and zero being uh total ban i probably would lean more towards six or seven  
um i feel like a total ban on guns is just going to put the guns in the hands the criminals  
um i lived in massachusetts for two years  
and they have a total ban on guns  
and i saw that it didn't stop crime in that state  
any any kind of firearms  
yeah  
uh it's  
there's was a mandatory jail sentence if you were caught um with a firearm  
and also i think there was a fine  
no  
i don't  
the the crime is not any better or any worse  
i mean it's  
i i shouldn't say i don't know if it was any worse  
but it certainly didn't get any better  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i i agree with that  
i i think that the the law is on who can buy a gun are are way too lax  
i think that i think that the  
yeah  
um i  
yeah  
i i'm i'm not really sure  
i don't personally i don't own a gun  
um and i don't think i probably ever would um although i would like to know how to handle one  
and i think it's good that and i think everybody should learn how to handle one  
um you just never know when you might come into contact with one  
um  
no  
uh nobody in my family hunted  
uh my father had had guns when i was in high school because he got them from a friend who lived in massachusetts  
we lived in new hampshire at the time  
and he lived in massachusetts and had to get rid of all his guns  
so we ended up uh with these guns  
and my really my only experience with a gun was shooting a pistol and not knowing how to hold it right  
and the hammer came back and hit me in the thumb and blood [squirted] everywhere  
and so that was really the only experience that i've had with guns  
and it   it kind of scared me  
but i think that if i learn how to use one i would i would feel better  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
i would definitely support that  
yeah  
i i i agree the thing that scares me uh though about where i would i would definitely want some sort of legislation  
and coming from the north east i'm just not used to seeing um these  
and i i know this may sound kind of stereo typical  
but the cowboys with the gun racks in the back of their trucks   that's kind of scary to me  
that kind of to me it is more like [vigilantism]  
you know and it kind of scares me especially with all the shootings that have been going on   in l a on the [freeways]  
and then you come here in in the dallas area um  
i don't i don't believe that people should be allowed to carry guns in their vehicles   um especially not in the back window   for everybody to see  
sure you're welcome  
okay  
bye bye  
well um i'm uh pretty pro gun control over all  
i uh i've had a lot of arguments with people about the issue of gun control  
and uh i must say that there are a couple of arguments against uh strong gun control which i find very [compelling] although most the people who argue gun control with me i find uh use sort of canned arguments you know sort of the n r a slogan arguments  
and um uh see i've been very frustrated when i do debate with people about it um  
i guess on a one a scale of one of ten i'm probably around a two in terms of fair restricting guns  
and i have to admit most of that is uh strong personal [distaste]  
i don't like the idea of people being able to kill me with very little effort um  
and uh guns are very symbolic of them having that power over me  
uh_huh  
um uh i'll give it a try  
i've got my texan stereotypes in place  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's pretty power isn't it  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
that applies to anything as well as guns  
a gun  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what i don't gets dangerous in terms of civil liberties because pretty soon it's it wouldn't  
you don't want to have someone making a personal trust in that way i would hope i mean because i mean someone  
the personal sheriff doesn't like doesn't get to have a gun  
and someone the personal sheriff  
yeah  
but if you're not a if you're not a basically good citizen  
you just told me that you're going to get one of those guns anyway  
so why  
so why have any restrictions at all  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we can could be  
well that makes a lot of since to me  
i mean i certainly feel that if if we may disagree on when someone should own a fire arm  
but uh i certainly agree that if someone owns a fire arm that have as much responsibility to know how do use it safely as someone learns how to drive if not more so  
yeah  
well i have a bicycle  
and that scares me too to tell you the truth because i've been run off the road and all sorts of things  
well i'm still i'm still puzzled though what is the argument  
how does the argument work if uh if the bad guys are going to have guns anyway  
what's the point of putting a  
basically the restrictions are just to [penalize] the good guys because the bad guys are going to get the guns anyway  
they're not going to take those courses  
is it uh is it a way of raising the prices of illegal guns  
if it's not going to cut the supply of illegal guns it must going to at least raise the prices  
does that uh mean advantage  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh no  
bay area  
san francisco   bay area  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what if you're looking down the barrel of a hand cannon  
i  
yeah  
well  
i'm i'm sure  
i'm sure given all   given all your training i'm sure that you know you'd  
if i walk into a bad neighborhood i'm sure i'd want to walk through with you because i'm sure you have good you know far above the average instinct for how to use guns and how to use them effectively and everything  
um i'm quite concerned that if you let everyone  
hasn't yet used a gun in a haven't hasn't yet committed a felony  
if you let them all walk around carrying guns  
in this sort of wild west scenario you're going to get an awful lot of people shooting guns pretty quickly just given human nature  
you're going to start getting a lot of gunfire  
it's it's hard for me to imagine that a a situation of you know  
take it to a logical extreme  
if everyone walking around carrying a guns you're not going to have an increase in gunfire  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know  
no  
i i understand that  
what if uh what if you think someone's trying to hurt them and you make a mistake  
yeah  
well uh that   that was the topic  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well as as someone who would would possibly be in the role of an independent bystander i feel more comfortable with people having blades because uh you're not going to get bullets flying around killing people instantly  
and uh  
well me being from texas  
i hope you're ready for this  
well i'm not your stereotypical texan  
i was raised around guns hunting  
so i don't have a fear of fire arms in any respect  
i i respect them and what their capabilities are  
and on top of that spending a good portion of my earlier years in the military as a green [beret] i definitely respect the power of weaponry  
and here in houston as well as just about any big city anywhere across this country  
and here here here you go  
here you  
this will be border line n r a which i am not a member of  
when you i mean you've heard the the slogan um if you outlaw guns then only out laws will have guns  
well you you've got  
well any of the big cities you've got the different rival gangs  
and they're having their little turf wars over their little drug [kingdoms] and such  
and they get out their little mac tens  
they get out there little uzis  
and they're going to fight with them  
and it doesn't matter what restrictions you put on that type of weapon or a class three firearm  
if they want it they'll get it  
i don't care if if they've got to go down into new mexico to get it  
they'll get it  
and they'll get across the border  
now my position although i have absolutely no use for a fully automatic weapon   anyway  
since i am a law abiding citizen and i have never had a felony if i wanted to buy one i don't think there should be that big of a restriction on it  
if they want to run a background check on me fine  
if they want to put a seven day waiting period fine again  
if they want want me to present a letter from my county sheriff saying that i've got his permission to have an automatic weapon in his county that's fine too  
well  
the only well the criteria the sheriff would have to follow has is this guy a convicted felon uh  
is he a habitual trouble maker  
are we picking him up every saturday   for a drunk and [disorderly]  
and if he had an automatic weapon could he really be raising some problems  
you know just proving that you're a basically a good citizen  
if if they want the firepower they can get it  
because it doesn't matter how restrictive you're border control points are  
they'll get it across the border one way or the other  
uh okay  

go back to that one to ten scale where one   being   full gun control   ten being none  
i'd said about an eight  
i said the restrictions i would like to see on for anybody whether it being for handgun a rifle a shotgun  
i would like to see them go through either  
i'd like to see a law enforcement agency not n r a  
but whether it be the your state police or your county police for you to be able purchase a handgun  
you got to go through there course and get certified that you know how to properly handle the weapon how to safely handle the weapon how to properly maintain it the three basics  
well the  
in the hands of the wrong person the car can be just as deadly as the weapon   as a as a pistol  
well there's  
uh not necessarily a price thing  
what is happening at least in this state  
and i expect to see it in other states very soon  
legislation been introduced as that if a citizen of the state being   myself has not committed a felony and has completed a certified weapons course i can carry a weapon on me at all times concealed or [unconcealed]  
okay  
you you're you're from california right  
l a area  
okay  
okay  
you've been to the city  
and all these people come around  
someone attempts to mug me i would  
i would  
as it stands now if he pulls a blade on me we're equally matched because i can meet him blade for blade  
now if this legislation comes through  
he  
i'm out with my family  
we've gone shopping  
we're fixing to get in the car  
this guy comes up  
he pulls a blade on me  
i can pull a gun on him now  
when you're and when you're looking down the barrel of a hand cannon things change real quick  
then it's still equally matched  
having   having spent time in combat i feel   i feel it before they'll get the gun on me  
if i'm   at the same   time  
i actually it's  
it's more of a police action in itself  
the fact that everybody is packing a piece is a [deterrence] for someone saying well i'm going to mug this guy right here  
but hey he's carrying just as much firepower as i can  
and if they're if you got to go through a certification course to get where to where you can carry it in public   then this individual also knows this guys pretty good with it  
now whether this person is made the moral decision whether he can take another human life or not   that's another trip  
but  
in defense of myself defense of my family or defense of my friends i can blow somebody a way in a heart beat   even even more so when it comes to my my wife and son  
anybody   anybody tries to hurt them i won't even blink  
this this is where the question of gun control comes in  
what   i consider gun control is being able to hit my target with the first shot  
say a person uh uh get  
all of a sudden my combat in me goes up  
and say i've got the [vibes] this guys fixing to do something  
i go ahead and pull my piece  
and i make sure this persons sees it so that he's got now doubt that i will use it on him  
and i will use it right then  
if he doesn't back up at that point he deserves what he gets because i have sent the [clearest] signal you mess with me you mess with my family i'm going to dust you  
as it stands now i've got to do that with a blade  
and the only reason i feel comfortable doing that is because of the training i've had  
well if i'm the one doing the shooting i don't miss  
that's the kind of training i've had  
i mean  
well i grew up out in the country and uh was used to having uh guns around the place  
and uh   i'm uh not for gun control   in the [strictest] sense of the uh word  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i feel that its uh  
i think the what was national rifle association uh had this bumper sticker a few years back if uh about if you outlaw guns  
only outlaws will have guns then  
and i believe that too because the person that is wanting to   commit a crime is going to find a way to get a gum a a gun a knife a a rock   a stick whatever it is to commit a crime with  
and it's the honest citizens like ourselves that are responsible about use of guns uh  
we can handle it  
but there's an element that can't  
they have got them [outgunned]  
there was a an article in the paper just this week where i think it's uh one of the gun companies i can't remember which was developing a ten metal ten millimeter automatic pistol for the f b i   which would give them additional firepower  
it had held like a fifteen shot clip   which uh would be able they would be able to put down anything that came at them  
but you figure you got some drug guy out there that's got an uzi machine gun uh   a thirty eight uh  
smith and [wesson] [revolver] isn't going to do you much good  
yeah  
i have lived in uh illinois at one time  
and they they passed a uh it wasn't really gun control  
but it was you had to register as a gun owner  
you didn't have to list your guns  
but you had to have this card  
it was like a driver's license card that you had to have it in order to buy ammunition  
and that was the first uh  
this was twenty years ago  
but they had that so that they were trying to control it a little bit in that respect  
pardon  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we lived in tennessee for awhile  
and i bought a pistol there  
and there was a fifteen day waiting period  
you had to fill out an application and   go down to the [sheriff's] office and get [fingerprinted]  
and   then you had fifteen days while they checked to see if you had any kind of criminal record before that you could pick up the gun you were purchasing  
no  
i think that uh you know a a waiting period uh   can make a difference  
but again it's going to be the law abiding citizen that's going to comply with that  
so there's i don't   think there's any way to control the criminal element as far as guns is concerned because  
right  
right  
yeah  
i'm  
we we're getting into capital punishment now  
but i i agree with you there that uh  
yeah  
the uh the again the purpose of gun control is to control how it is being used   is what the purpose should be  
it's not to keep people from buying a gun that need one for a specific purpose legal purpose   but to keep the guy that's illegal from getting his hands on one  
and i'm in favor of keeping the the illegal guy from getting one in his hands  
but   the legal person or [lawful] person should not be penalized because there is the criminal element  
oh yes  
yeah  
you don't have to carry one in your car or your uh   or your pocket all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i know what uh  
i took my kids out and taught them out how to shoot a gun  
my wife the same thing uh she knows how to shoot any weapon that we have not that i have an arsenal or anything  
but we have several guns around the house  
one of these days my grandkids probably  
but i think it's uh  
you got to have have the  
living in dallas there's not that many places to go shoot  
but   uh still i think they ought to know how to use one and that it's not just a toy and that when it's not like on t v when someone gets shot uh they get back up  
if someone gets shot with a   real gun they don't get back up  
yeah  
yeah  
i remember i had an old uncle up by tulsa oklahoma that took me out and uh showed me  
this was it was not my it was my mother's uncle  
this was a gentleman in his sixties  
and he took me out with him and uh single shot twenty two   and taught me how to shoot  
we went squirrel hunting  
and   and uh he taught me how to shoot uh a old single shot twenty two  
and i was probably about twelve at the time  
and i thought that was the neatest thing  
and   of course uncle sam took me out took me hunting with him  
and he let me shoot and showed me how  
right  
oh yeah  
well that's about all i  
we agreed pretty well on this i think  
okay  
well it's been real nice talking with you  
okay  
bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i think i'm kind of bent towards middle liberal of the bridge myself  
you know i have quite a collection myself  
and you know i'm a good hunter  
and i started hunting when i was twelve years old  
of course my parents made me take hunters safety classes  
and   you know i don't want to see them ban guns completely  
but i don't want them to completely turn loose of their controls either  
so  
i believe that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and it's you know it's got to the point now where even our our police departments and our d e a agents and everything have to carry automatic weapons  
because everybody that's in drug trafficking has got them  
you know yeah  
so  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
that would be  
yeah  
that's  
no  
it's sure not  
huh_uh  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
see in california they   in california they make you register when you buy ammunition  
you have to sign a you know  
they take your name and driver's license number hunter hunting license number and all that good stuff   before you can buy any big ammunition   especially for handguns  
now rifles aren't too bad  
but you know any kind of handgun at all   if it will fit in a handgun and a rifle you would still have to buy it   or sign up for it  
so  
uh_huh  
gee  
gee that's not a bad idea  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
no  
the only way they could do it i think would be to stiffen the penalties on anybody using a gun  
you know i think if we kind of stiffen them up a little bit course  
i i feel kind of weird about that anyway  
i think if somebody shoots somebody they ought to be shot  
so  
yeah  
but you know  
it would definitely be gun control  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
myself  
yeah  
well and they're actually a necessity in life you know  
they're not you know  
not everybody needs a gun  
but sooner or later i need one  
you know whether i'm out hunting or you know  
i'm never had to protect my life or  
well i did in the service but not you know not on the street  
so i don't really need one in the in the aspects  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
so mine are you know i use mine for recreation  
i don't  
and i enjoyed my guns  
i have a good time with them  
so  
yeah  
probably  
yeah  
no  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i had to explain that to my  
i've got a six year old now  
and he you know  
i have a fifteen year old and a seventeen year old well  
they understand now  
you know i've taken time to teach them  
and now the young boy wants to know  
and you know like i told him you're a little bit young for a gun let me go out here and you know we would start with the b b gun deal you know  
so he started with the b b gun and shot a couple of holes in a couple of windows  
and i took it away from him  
i said now   you know so he's learning the hard way  
but at least it was a b b gun not a twenty two or a four ten or something  
so  
um  
uh_huh  
all right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
all right  
i think there is a lot of responsibility on any of us gun owners to make sure that whoever is around us is at least safe and knows how to use one  
you know i don't want to get out there deer hunting and have some guy blow me away  
so  
yeah  
i think so  
all right  
have a good one  
bye bye  
okay we're being recorded  
uh number one i am one hundred percent for total gun control  
i  
yes  
i am not a member of the national rifle association  
and   i don't believe in hunting  
and uh i just have had my fill of what is going on with the crime rate  
and i really feel that we have to do something in order to uh to  
uh_huh  
no  
there's only one problem i have with the whole thing though is you know when they do it i think our biggest problem is yes the the crooks and what have you are going to get weapons if the weapons are available  
i think the biggest problem we have in this country is there are just entirely too many weapons available and the types of the weapons  
i mean there is   no  
right  
there is   there is no reason for it i mean  
and you know when people say you know well my god they're they're cutting into my civil liberties and all this no i i i take a different stand that as long as they are available and they are so readily [accessed] out there then something is taken away from my civil liberties  
and uh maybe i'm a little bit strong when i said total gun control  
that's that's really not what i meant  
but i mean we need control  
we've got to be able to get a handle on what is happening  
and we've got to reduce the number of weapons that are out in the in the   in the public  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yes  
all right  
you you sound like you're into the technology of it which is  
yeah i agree  
and you know and again i'm my entire family are they are all hunters  
and you know they they don't appreciate my stand  
and i   i have no i really have no problem with sports hunters  
i really don't  
it's just when they come out and they say they need an uzi in order to do some accurate or decent deer hunting i think i think that's totally outrageous  
what's happening is people are losing  
they seem to be losing their common sense over the issue  
and the issue   is the issue is becoming the focus and not what is actually happening with guns  
uh i i think something will happen  
all right ron  
total gun control  
yes  
i i agree something should be done  
but i there i don't believe there is any way of total control over weapons because crooks and people who are going to perform things that are not correct will have access to weapons from somewhere  
and that means they'll always have an advantage over us  
and uh they may even get worse because they know we have nothing to support myself  
now you know i i agree with a lot of the things you just said in your few moments because personally i used to be a great hunter  
and in the last few years i've said no way  
matter of fact if i find a uh a a fly running around in the house i pick him up and carry him outdoors  
i i don't even hit him with a [flyswatter]  
so i've uh gotten over this business of wanting to go out and shooting and and killing and that sort of thing  
but i i think that uh personally that we do need some weapons available to most of the people  
most of the people really are uh honest and uh worthy of carrying on their lives properly  
uh i'm sort of in line thinking in terms  
i don't see anything wrong with this five day waiting period if the waiting period is [utilized] to really look at the background of the person purchasing the weapon  
i mean there's nothing wrong with that  
do you see anything wrong with that  
right  
yeah  
i'm i'm against this uh automatic and semiautomatic stuff  
i don't think we should have access to those  
no  
huh  
yes  
and the the people should be uh selected so that we know that they are all right and that they're they're not uh [acquiring] weapons for [illicit] use  
uh that is not good  
there's nothing wrong with a person that enjoys the mechanisms  
as a matter of fact uh there's a fellow out there working on my house right now who uh brought to me a target from a rifle that he uh pretty well halfway designed  
and he he put together the uh the bullets in it  
and he was showing me that at a hundred yards he kept five shots within a quarter of an inch of each other at one hundred yards  
now see from a technical point of view that is something that that our military people need to know about  
so there are other interesting uh [facets] in in guns and weapons  
this is a uh bolt action rifle i think he has  
and he has done other things to the way the uh barrel sits in the uh the wood part of it  
and uh he designed the the the bullets themselves  
and he has fantastic accuracy  
just just from a technical point of view that interests me not to kill anybody with it or anything with it but just the fact that a piece of mechanism like that could be made to be so accurate  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
on a scale of one to ten where do you stand and why  
yes  
true  
right  
yeah  
i can i can understand that  
i was raised in oklahoma  
and of course being [oklahoman] and texan uh  
yeah  
the hunting and everything  
and i used to things in my father and my husband having guns and all  
and i i did used to be all in favor of it  
but it's all of a sudden it's starting to get really scary with these gangs  
yet i think i would vote a one if i thought that it would be nation wide and they can guarantee no one would have a gun no crooks nothing  
but because i know that's not going to happen then i have to probably right up there about an eight  
well it just seems like in the past three or four years it has just gotten so much worse than it was  
there's always been a certain amount of crime in your you know your urban areas  
and i know we lived in chicago for seven years  
and of course it was definitely there  
so when we first moved here it wasn't as bad as this  
it's you know it's just getting all of a sudden so much worse  
i don't know whether it's due to the drugs and the uh drug kings that are here and [jamaican] drug kings coming in  
i don't know whether that's it or street gangs  
i don't know what the answer is  
i know that it's scary  
and yet i hate the government constantly telling me what i can do and what i can't do  
and that's basically what the gun control would end up being  
well it's very true  
it's not the law abiding citizen that you know is is dangerous with the gun  
it's the ones that are going out and stealing it  
and i said i think the only way i would be in big favor of gun control is if they could absolutely guarantee that nobody would have them  
and i think that would almost have to go with [armies] too  
i mean they'd have to be almost world wide which we know would never ever happen  
because even if you said okay  
you know armed forces could have them  
some idiot would come out and sell it to somebody on the street to make a quick buck  
that's very true  
very true  
who knows  
we maybe want to overthrow the government  
i know  
if somebody doesn't do something  
uh what about uh what do you think of this this uh law that they're putting into effect that you have to wait x number of days before you can uh carry the gun or buy you know actually purchase the gun  
yes  
well i guess i stand on uh on probably ten for no uh restrictions  
i uh recently just moved to texas from uh south dakota and nebraska  
and i guess in terms of gun control i've always uh been raised with the uh idea in the constitution that uh citizens had a right to bear arms  
and i realize that probably way back when when the constitution was written it probably [regarded] uh more uh of a national defense uh than anything else  
but uh on the other hand too uh people then uh needed to use firearms for um survival in terms of uh food  
and uh i was raised uh you know hunting all the time  
i lived on the farm and uh you know enjoy hunting  
and i guess i have uh some problems with uh being restricted to um owning a gun for you know hunting purposes mainly  
and um it scares me a little bit to think that they would begin restricting gun control to the point where um eventually we may not be able to have that right any more  
yeah  
it uh moving to this area of course it happens everywhere  
but uh i guess we're pretty naive coming from small towns uh in the midwest and then uh moving to a larger city where there are drive by shootings  
and uh there seems like killing for no reason at all  
and uh  
i i think so  
and and there's always the uh the uh the old uh saying that keeps coming up that if a person wants a gun bad enough they'll they'll get one  
and uh and then uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's for sure  
yeah  
and uh and you know uh i suppose uh years ago way back when uh when uh they had the [revolutionary] war and people decided that they uh were fed up with the government uh  
and if they didn't have a way to uh to fight back they would have been in big trouble  
well the way things are going  
well you know they introduced some gun control back when i was a teenager i believe in terms of uh every gun you bought had to be licensed i believe  
and uh you know that didn't bother me uh too much  
and so i guess it depends um if there are some statistics that show that uh that people uh commit crimes on the spur of the moment  
okay brian  
fine thanks  
are you a total banner  
yeah  
okay  
well so let me make sure  
so you think that uh maybe a five day waiting period for handguns or that stuff would be legitimate  
uh you just you would be able to buy it  
but they'd just have to mail it to you i suppose huh  
oh  
okay  
oh yeah  
let's see  
i think that gun control has come up because there has been some [crazies] that killed people with guns  
and i think that's the problem that we need to address is why these people want to kill other people rather than the instrument they particularly used in the assault  
whether you know  
sure  
well we have some laws on the books that uh don't allow convicted felons to purchase guns if i understand correctly  
and uh i would agree  
a a short waiting period would be appropriate to uh take care of the heat of the moment type things  
but   uh i think banning semiautomatic twenty two rifles is a a bit on the extreme side  
and a total ban on guns would just leave guns in the hands of criminals who don't care what the rules are anyway  
the only purpose for handguns is to shoot people in my opinion  
or you could do it just for fun you know kind of like a game  
but uh  
i think that i should have a right to own a handgun  
not a automatic semiautomatic  
no  
no  
uh but i think a person needs a way of defending themselves  
you saw indiana jones  
the guy came after him with that big knife  
and just he took care of it  
just one shot  
that's right  
so how is work going  
they don't let you take guns to work do they  
uh_huh  
can they be   is it concealed  
or does it have to  
has to be on the hip  
can a  
hi  
how you doing kevin  
good  
good  
glad to hear that  
i understand  
total banner  
no  
i i believe that uh the american public and i as an individual and private citizen have a right to to bear arms and to have a gun as long as i uh am responsible with it and protect the safety and welfare of my kids  
and and so that they're not playing with it and so that they can't hurt themselves or anyone else playing with it  
i think that education with a gun is is critical and important  
uh however i do believe that uh guns ought to be maintained and and controlled that you can't go out and just buy one off the corner and do whatever you want with it because people that are angry or have concerns or want to seek vengeance right away have easy access to guns  
and in the heat of the moment they can go and do some damage that can hurt themselves and other people  
so on a scale of one to ten i i think i would rate myself as a in the six or seven or eight  
but i think that there ought to be some control  
but i still think that uh individuals have a right  
how do you feel about it  
well i don't know if a five day waiting period would be legitimate  
uh that uh that might cool down some [tempers]  
i think a a one day would be sufficient  
the reason i say that is there is an awful lot of people who go to gun shows  
and if you see an awful lot of [exhibits] and things and if you would like to purchase a gun if that five day waiting period were in effect you wouldn't be able to purchase one at that gun show  
well i don't think you can mail thing guns through the mail  
i don't know  
i think that's a against the law ever since kennedy was [assassinated]  
so how do you feel about guns  
uh_huh  
well do you think that there will continue to always be [crazies]  
then uh how do you propose that we prohibit those types of individuals from gaining access to guns  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
do you uh do you feel there is a need in the world today to have a an automatic handgun  
well i think that the the police uh or law enforcement have a need because of the tight quarters they might find themselves  
but the public i don't know  
uh_huh  
yes  
not an uzi  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
that's true  
and he uh saved himself in the in the in the process also  
very fine  
very  
no  
they   that's uh that's prohibited where we work  
although down here in texas uh   you do have a right to to wear and carry arms with you at all times  
that's still   that's still you can still do that down here  
oh you can't  
no  
it should not   be concealed  
it has to be on the hip  
has to be in sight so that uh you know that you're not uh a menace or   a problem to individuals  
how about where you live there in utah  
hi  
what do you think about gun control  
well i guess that i would like to to say that perhaps someplace in the middle where people could somehow qualify or uh have a legitimate use for the the the weapon i suppose   because also living in this area the the problems in d c come home very quickly  
well i'm not so sure about that  
but i think somehow uh safety courses  
or i don't know whether this could be something that was done in school  
but somehow people  
i'd like to know that the people who had them at least knew what the responsibilities were whether they followed them or not  
you know at least there's the moral issue that they they knew better   which is sort of you know flaky  
but still  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know  
this morning in our paper it there was an article about somebody who had bought three guns in virginia because all you have to do is get a driver's license  
so he went over there and got a driver's license the same day bought three guns and went up to new york and sold them for you know very high [markups]  
now in a sense that's a legal   way of getting the guns  
but certainly the   the purpose is not very legal  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
and i suppose uh you know total ban would lead to more illegal weapons  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
but that's true  
i mean some people grew up with guns in the house  
we never had any in the house  
so to me the you know the first time i saw a gun up close was a pretty scary thing  
and i'm not sure that's good either  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh sort of mixed feelings about it i guess uh uh  
i i i lean more towards the control side than than towards you know just the the free free army  
uh on the other hand i it's it's sort of an issue of of uh  
i'm not i'm not a great fan of of government control in general  
and so it's it's kind of a tough issue  
what about yourself  
uh_huh  
i'm i'm sure  
yeah  
uh so you would take a position where somebody without without a uh uh specific use  
in other words if they just wanted to have a a gun to have in their home uh you wouldn't you wouldn't like them to be able to do that  
is that  
uh   yeah  
i i have uh i have the impression that that the the majority of the problems that we have with guns are not are are probably not from the people that are are buying them through legitimate channels anyway  
uh that may be wrong  
uh you know i mean certainly there there are cases of of you know children who find their parents' gun or something and and shoot a brother or sister or you know things like that that need to be definitely avoided  
and that's that's certainly within the channels  
right  
but uh a lot of the the crime i think that goes on i i don't know to what the degree the guns are are purchased through regular channels or they're illegal guns  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i mean i think uh some  
or i i don't know if it's been actually been implemented  
i think so uh  
or at least there's been talk about doing uh you know like waiting periods and   and things like that  
uh and and uh you know i i think stuff like that is perfectly good  
i mean basically if you if you don't intend to do anything you know if you if you're buying it for legitimate purposes waiting ten days shouldn't be a problem   you know and and things  
i don't know  
i've you know  
i i don't own a gun and and don't really want one  
and i'd just as soon a lot fewer people did  
uh but on the other hand you know uh like i say i kind of kind of against government control in general  
uh  
yeah  
and i you know  
something about banning is that you know there there are so many weapons out there that that they're not going to disappear anytime soon  
uh and they're already  
i know there's a ready market for them you know  
in the  
the stolen stolen guns can be sold  
i mean the first thing a a a burglar will pick up if he can is a gun  
right  
because uh because they they can be so easily sold  
and you know they're they're  
i don't know how many millions of guns have been sold in this country  
but uh it's not like they're going to disappear all of a sudden uh even if you do do a total ban on them  
uh it's a real tough problem  
i i don't know  
i don't know where i really come down on it  
i mean i i grew up  
my father was a hunter  
right  
and that's and that's sort of almost a separate issue  
i think we've generally been talking about handguns and that kind of thing  
right   you know  
and  
uh_huh  
um   yeah  
well we you know we i grew up with them  
i never really took to hunting  
i mean i did some of it  
but uh you know we didn't have any we never had any handguns or anything like that  
we had you know had shotguns for for [quail] and pheasant hunting and things like that  
and you know it was a whole different thing  
and and gun safety was taken very seriously  
and it was you know  
i mean before we go hunting we we took safety courses uh you know  
and and and it  
but you know that's that seems to me to be just a whole another issue  
uh you know the the thing  
the the  
yeah  
i'm not certain that people are are are terribly concerned about other people  
how do you feel about gun control  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well don't you think that you know just having you know some you know almost like a driver's license be required you know with stiff penalties if you are found with with you know a gun that is not registered or you know that you are not licensed to carry  
i mean   it varies from state to state  
there is no national  
uh in most states as long as you aren't a convicted felon   you know or on probation or uh you know other obvious things like that  
uh and i know i know that like in a lot of states you could you could be just like released from a mental hospital the day before you know be be obviously insane  
and then you you know but have your legal right to get a gun  
uh yeah  
i'd probably i'd probably say about a five  
seems like it's a good safe number to pick you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you know uh uh  
if you are looking at like you know country that uh where they do have a lot more gun control like england and places like that you know  
the amount of violent crime has [decreased] by so much  
well i mean yeah  
the uh the  
in comparing per capita murders are incredibly lower than the united states  
uh you know i mean the problem though you know they if the since the united states had this you know pretty much unrestricted flow of guns going for so long that i think you know if you were introduced you know any controls it would probably take a long while for them to take effect just because there is a glut of guns out there already  
you know so it's it's really kind of a complex problem  
uh i'm not really sure how bad it is  
i've i've not really had that many problems with it  
but i mean apparently we we were ranked pretty high up  
uh i mean i think you know in the  
i mean i think we have been like ranked in one of the top three for murders in the last few years  
uh_huh  
no  
i've thought about getting one  
if i get one i think i will probably you know get something  
i probably wouldn't get a hand gun  
i would probably get like a shotgun  
just for protecting myself you know from   burglar type thing  
i do kind of live in the downtown area  
you know and shotguns are really good because they're  
i mean somebody is not going to break in steal it and you know use it to mug someone you know  
uh and you know you  
yeah  
i just don't understand these people you know like when they they decide they're going to buy a gun to protect themselves  
they go out and buy a three fifty seven [magnum] which is going to shoot through you know  
they are probably going to miss the person  
and and they're going to shoot through five wall   and hit someone you know  
i mean a shotgun just really struck me as being you know a real good defensive weapon  
you can sort of point it somewhere in the direction of   you know whoever  
you pretty much stop them  
and you don't  
then the actual shot doesn't go that far you know a wall will stop it pretty much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that that really does scare me people you know that have guns  
because you know if you ever get in the situation where you know you are not prepared to shoot  
but you pick up the gun and point it at the person   that that person [rushes] you  
and you know you're pretty much dead you know   because you you've just told the person that you you're about to kill them then   you know  
and and well i mean you you basically made it clear to the person that you know unless he unless you know that you are a real danger to them  
and then you know if you if they manage to get the gun from you you know their first reaction is going to be you know stop you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
the did it happen at a cafeteria or something  
uh_huh  
well uh i mean i don't think that guns should be outlawed  
but it's going to  
a lot of the stuff that  
i mean all you do is to get guns   and then like with the stuff of that [massacre] in killeen texas not too long ago   but i don't really know i mean unless they do uh just outlaw them how you can uh prevent that  
yeah  
that  
well do you even know what the procedures are now  
um  
but it's kind of like if you want a gun you can get a gun especially if you have the money to pay for it  
yeah  
huh i didn't know that  
well that's pretty scary  
so does now do they want us to say where we feel about it like in rating it one to ten  
that's where i would probably be  
well i mean i mean i don't really know what they can how they can really enforce the laws any better  
because i mean i do think that some people need them and like for protection and stuff  
and i can understand them wanting to have them  
but then again it's just like all those nuts out there  
it has  
because then  
um  
yeah  
well is the crime that bad there in atlanta  
yeah  
i know dallas is  
i don't know if dallas is in the top three  
but do you own a gun  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
well   well now when i first moved to dallas i moved up here by myself  
and uh my dad gave me a gun  
but i never did go out and practice with it enough to feel comfortable with it  
so i finally ended up giving it back to him  
i said i don't want it  
i don't want to be responsible for it because   you know if you're not going to teach me how to do it   and if i am not going to you know   be responsible enough to go out and learn i don't need it  
yeah  
and they get it from you  
uh_huh  
set them off  
yeah  
well that's why i ended up giving it back to him  
i thought well   you know i don't want it if i don't know how to you know if i don't really know how to use it  
and i just didn't want the responsibility  
so well uh did you hear about that killeen [massacre] or whatever  
yeah  
right  
that kind of   i mean it just makes you wonder how people get guns  
i would be scared selling guns to people  
okay  
what's your view  
what's your view  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
you know even if they give it a shot it's still going to be black market all over the place you know  
i don't know  
coming from texas you're probably  
i don't know  
i shouldn't make stereo types  
but gun control is probably [frowned] on quite a bit down there i would think  
oh you're just live down there  
yeah  
oh well  
yeah  
well i know how you feel  
i'm uh i grew up in nebraska  
and and we always use to go out and hunt all the time you know  
and   man there's no way there's no way i would ever go for a total ban on all weapons  
that's just  
i don't know  
yeah  
it doesn't sit with me very well  
i don't know i anymore  
i keep a thirty eight in my truck you know  
yeah  
i just about all  
well i live in minneapolis  
and i  
well actually i live in florida  
but i am staying in minneapolis for a year  
and   you know both areas are pretty crime ridden right now  
and it's just you never know who is out there  
you know it's just for self protection purposes  
and then of course there's the hunting issue  
so  
yeah  
that's good  
what do you do jeff  
oh yeah  
all right  
yeah  
i'm uh researcher of honeywell up here  
so uh  
yeah  
you guys uh do you get much of a chance to hunt or anything  
or  
yeah  
you know   that's something i miss quite a bit  
yeah  
yeah  
all right  
yeah  
my brother was uh a guide for bear and elk hunts out in idaho for a while and uh really enjoyed it quite a bit  
but i don't know  
i guess that what the scale now is it's zero for uh for a complete  
that's right  
i guess i am about eight or nine  
yeah  
no doubt about it  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
if there's   if there's a way you know to limited it to people that i don't know that  
they i guess they passed a couple of uh uh laws a here while back in some states in terms of a waiting period   where you know you go to buy a hand gun  
and then they actually uh  
i know it's this way in florida  
they have a waiting period where you buy one  
and that's a week  
and then they check you out and make sure you don't have a record you know and things like that  
i think that's a pretty good idea  
uh and that's  
i don't know  
that's not a bad idea  
but then again you can always get around that  
you could go through the black market like you say  
you know you always be able to get around  
but uh  
yeah  
it's one of things  
but uh i don't know  
i guess i guess some forms of guns should probably be controlled just like i'm not real sure why anybody would need a full automatic weapon  
yeah  
i'm just not  
i think those have been pretty much you know banned altogether anyway  
there  
it kind of takes the sport out of hunting  
you know it's like what can you do with that that you can't do in a self protection situation with like a seven or a twenty shot twelve  
you know you might do the same thing  
and so it's like i don't know it does  
it takes the sport out of it  
for me i would much rather have a bow anytime  
i i like bows  
you know i have done some bow hunting  
and i uh i get into it  
and i think it's more of a challenge you know  
but uh i don't know  
i guess it keeps the shell makers in business  
but uh i don't know  
anyway that's about where i stand  
you uh  
and you uh have you eaten yet or whatever  
is it seven o'clock there  
you guys central  
oh it's not too good  
it's kind of rainy actually  
around this time of year you expect it up here to get down to about uh i don't know ten or twenty degrees  
and it's been up around forty  
so people are people are whining about the rain and stuff but not too bad about the temperature  
ice is starting to melt and stuff like that  
so  
i am just up here for the year  
and it's kind of shocking  
all right  
huh  
well i have a hard time thinking that they can control guns   personally  
i mean  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
it is  
but i'm not really from i'm not really from texas  
i just live down here now  
i've   i've lived down here a couple years  
i'm originally from colorado  
but yeah  
there uh there uh there's a lot of hunters here  
uh_huh  
i just think i think it's ridiculous  
i mean  
really  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
sure  
uh i i'm in uh program control for a company up here  
yeah  
we do schedules for   programs schedule programs  
what do you do  
oh okay  
uh i haven't had a chance to do any hunting since i've been down here  
i don't own a shotgun  
but i'd like to go bird hunting  
so  
yeah  
uh when i was in colorado we went deer and elk hunting   you you know quite a bit  
but  
one for a total ban   and uh  
yeah  
i i agree with you there  
i mean if they can anyway get it keep criminals from having guns which they can't  
i you know i'm not   for it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
i don't either  
yeah  
i  
fully auto  
but even well i mean a semiautomatic i guess that's  
yeah  
right  
sure  
right  
oh really  
yeah  
sure  
me too  
yeah  
i am about the same way  
yeah  
uh yeah  
it's about seven fifteen  
how is the weather up there  
is it  
right  
yeah  
okay  
um i guess if i had to rate it from one to ten i guess   i would rate it a five in the aspect that i wouldn't want everybody to have guns  
and i think there should be limitations of like [semiautomatics]  
uh things like that should not be just given out to anybody  
in fact you know i can't imagine anybody having a semiautomatic for what purpose  
uh   so i guess you know being that i come from a hunting family   i'd rather have some restrictions put on weapons but yet allow hunting rifles uh things that people would use for sporting type of uh a activity  
those would be fine  
but when you get into a a lot of the more complex weapons i would say yes  
we need to put restrictions on them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
for self protection  
sure  
i can't imagine that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
to do massive amounts of killing uh  
yeah  
the only thing that i can see is the police having it in a case where somebody is uh uh you know going to kill a massive amount of people or uh somebody that's [escaping] that's uh very dangerous  
semiautomatic would allow more rounds to be put out to hopefully catch the person and and uh get him down  
but uh you know i i think of my family  
uh they're very much into sporting and uh you know as far as hunting and also like uh clay [pigeons]   things like that  
so they have may have some shotguns  
they may have other type of uh hunting type things  
but i figured if the if the criminals had to take a hunting gun out to kill somebody more than likely somebody would see it you know what i'm saying   versus a you know a small handgun uh   that can be you know put right in your coat pocket  
and nobody would see it  
but yet you can't stop people from having you know a handgun in their home  
even if there are small children around there's you know   you can't say people with small children can't have guns  
and people without small children that may have grandchildren you know   still have these guns  
but   uh i guess i i was always taught   number one a gun isn't a toy  
uh you know and i don't know if that makes a difference if the parent sets down to them and say this gun can kill you you know   and don't ever play with it  
uh so i don't know if that makes a difference or what  
but  
uh_huh  
the criminals would get them i mean even if they had to go across border to get them  
uh_huh  
how to use you know to make sure the guns are put up as something as   uh not a toy  
yeah  
because we had guns all over our house when we were kids  
and not that they were laying on the uh couch or anything like that  
but uh i never had an interest in them   being in the fact that i knew that guns could kill  
and i had four brothers and never messed with any type of guns  
and so it was kind of the idea that we knew that a gun could kill and that a gun wasn't a toy  
and of course we were quite young  
and we went through   uh the national rifle uh club  
and so we were taught you know kind of at a a good age ten and eleven and twelve to sit down with a kid and say okay  
if you're going to learn how to shoot a gun you're going to learn how to do it correctly  
and you're going to learn how to have [safeguards] and   and know how to protect yourself  
but yet have this   training so that kids aren't you know  
they have to have a certain respect for it  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
i think so  
and i don't know if the kids nowadays are different than what  
uh_huh  
uh that's i probably would have to agree with you pretty much all the way i think  
uh i definitely think that there some things shouldn't be limited like like you said rifles and   uh hunting rifles and possible handguns for people who use them to  
right  
and but i think the i think semiautomatic weapons people say they use them because it for sport  
but i i personally cannot see any use for them   other than uh for for like people who dislike have some sort of [crazed]   you know ambition to use have high powered weapons or something  
right  
and   i mean you can only how much do you  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
well i think uh in that i think that cases like that it's definitely um i think if you're to say okay  
we have to get rid of them all because   you know they can only they only seem to do bad it it's uh it's saying we're  
right  
right  
and people who people who have them and are responsible with them are are are being punished  
and people who   and they're saying that people you cannot take care of things yourself or like that you're not smart enough to teach your kids how to how to uh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i think i mean we i grew up in a family  
and and my father had two guns  
because he used to hunt years ago  
but   he stopped before really before i was old enough to remember  
but and i knew we had the guns in the house  
and the time my father was keeping them just for protection at the time  
but we it was never my brothers sisters nor i never i mean none of us ever thought well let's go look at the gun  
or let's go get the gun  
it was just something you knew was there  
and it was your father's  
and you that was not something you'd go and play played with at all  
and i think maybe uh and that's the type of the thing that should be you know stressed  
i'm ready if you are  
well i think that people should be allowed to have them  
especially   if they go hunting  
which my son goes hunting  
he goes deer hunting  
he goes duck hunting  
uh he's read books about guns since he was   like probably eleven or twelve years old  
and i just think that uh as far as that's concerned he should be able to have them to go hunting with you know  
as far as   just having handguns around to to have them i don't believe that you should have handguns around  
well no  
there's too many sports people out there that that do do these things  
yeah  
well i suppose you could uh  
uh_huh  
and i think if they want one they're going to get one  
you know  
the bad guys are you know  
like i say if they want a gun they're going to find out   somehow to get one  
well i agree with you on that because i know uh  
in fact i had bought my son a rifle like for a christmas present one time  
and for a rifle there's no waiting  
there wasn't anyhow  
now there might be now  
but   there wasn't anything for you know rifles and things like that  
i guess   it was just handguns that there was a some kind   of a waiting you know two weeks while they checked you out or something  
but uh most of these people that's got these guns that's going around you know robbing people and shooting people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see now i know they were having a gun show about a month ago  
and i was just wondering how that did work if somebody wanted to buy a gun at a gun show  
there's no restriction though  
you don't have to wait or nothing then huh  
yeah  
i was just curious you know because uh  
i know at at the regular gun show you know gun shop   that you   that you do have to wait for pistols like a couple   of weeks  
and then they check you out  
then they call you up  
and you go pick it up  
which i think they have to do on rifles and things now too  
i think there   is some something like that  
anyhow here out here in california i think there is now  
but  
uh_huh  
now we don't have guns because   we don't go hunting or anything like that  
but like i say my son he's   he's always had a  
like i think his first little rifle that we got him was like he twelve or thirteen years old  
but he's always he went to the to the school to learn how to shoot it  
he goes to the pistol range  
and and the rifle range to shoot them  
he likes to go to that uh shotgun thing where you shoot at those uh  
yeah  
right  
he likes to do that   you know  
but uh   i don't know  
i think they should try to control it and everything you know  
but as far as just banning it completely there that's not going to happen  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
now i do believe though like in california if a little kid gets a hold of a gun that someone has   i think they're liable now for  
they   can be you know put in jail and everything the whoever owned the gun  
you know now   when they have kids around you'd think that they would be locking them up  
or you know  
uh_huh  
well they can get into almost anything anymore  
okay  
um where do you stand uh on  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree too  
i uh  
it's it's as far as the ban goes and everything i don't think it's possible uh to completely ban guns  
there's just too many  
right  
and i  
yeah  
right  
i mean  
yeah  
that that's true  
and i mean the the [technology's] not that hard  
i mean you could make a gun you know from simple you know you know  
you know if if you really wanted a gun you you could make one uh  
oh you know  
true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's  
yeah  
i mean  
yeah  
there's there's no way to stop uh stop anybody from getting a gun  
uh i think there should be more control as like uh like maybe waiting periods and things like that you know uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i i know my friend is uh really into guns  
and uh uh i went a couple of times with him to gun shows you know that   come through town and everything  
and i mean they just have i mean they have anything you'd want  
i mean  
you know you know anywhere from rifles and semiautomatic weapons and there's i mean there's nothing  
you can just go buy one and take it home  
and it's easier than getting a like a video membership card at you know a video store  
uh yeah  
yeah  
you just go and uh buy the gun  
and uh  
no  
well except for the the pistols and  
i'm not sure how they do that  
i know they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i think that's  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm not sure  
i'm not really sure but what uh the gun laws in pennsylvania are like  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
the [skeets] you mean  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't yeah i i don't think it can happen either  
i just don't i don't see  
and then i i think uh hadn't thought about this before  
but if you do that if they would uh uh decide to ban guns it would just open up a a market you know a black market for them  
and so you know they they would just  
all the profits would go to you know  
yeah  
oh   oh yeah  
the owner's responsibility  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know that's that's true  
uh you know i i had a friend who was a uh a policeman in a in a local [borough] just a small uh one of the little neighborhoods you know one of the small towns uh   near pittsburgh  
and uh she said that that uh you know he used to always keep his guns locked up and everything like that  
but i mean you know you're you know  
people make you know  
they forget or you know you know  
kids get in  
the way kids the way kids are you know i mean they can you know  
right  
uh on the scale they gave one to ten i'd say i'm probably a four i'm not totally i'm not one of these people that believes that we should not be able to buy guns
but i don't think we should be carrying uzis either
you know what i mean
yeah
i know i mean i don't think machine guns automatic weapons
i don't believe in things like that
but i think that everyone should have the right to have a hand gun in their house
if they so choose
an
but i think there should be some restrictions when you buy one you know they should do more background search on you
they should i think it should be harder to buy one
yeah
no
they don't they don't ask anything except how old you are
i don't think that's kind of scary
yeah
they might be you know how we are here in texas
it's like everybody is a hunter
so i'm not much of a hunter
but i've never even bought a gun myself my dad's given it to me or someone's given me one
so i'm probably real illegal
i'm carrying guns that aren't even mine
it really is uh the only problem i have with gun control is that they the [radicals] want to ban all kinds of weapons and then the only people carrying guns are going to be be the people who are going to kill you anyway
yeah
exactly
right
it really is because they're going to get them one way or another
they will always have a way look at drugs they always have a way to get that
so
and they're illegal
i don't think it would do us any good to outlaw them all together
that's true
i think they ought to teach people how to shoot them too how to take care of one how to act around one when they buy them
yeah
exactly
you can not take the gun home until you have taken this course sign up here
something like that
right
exactly
before graduation yeah
oh yeah
they do they get real emotional about it all the i've worked with a lot of people that hunt
and they just they they don't see any sense in at all
they think it's ridiculous to have any kind of gun control
but then of course they're hunters they know what they're doing
they don't realize there are a bunch of crazy people out there that don't use it for that
well yeah
that's true
they shoot each other thinking they're a deer
yeah
darn i thought you were a deer bob
sorry
my mistake
looked like [antlers] i don't know
yeah
that happens a lot too
but i guess that's it
my opinion on it
so what now
uh uh
i think we just hang up
yeah
well uh she said uh one was a total ban on gun control and ten was uh no control at all
where do you fit in there
oh yeah
well we're probably not too far apart i'd probably fall in there at a seven or eight
well i pretty much agree with that
that's uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
is that right
in the whole state
golly
well the they're now criminals themselves
yeah
that's that's the crazy thing about it
you're you're putting uh they're they're putting more laws and more restrictions and more burden on the honest citizen the one who doesn't give them a problem anyway
you know
and it's it's crazy
they're just putting more giving more paper work problems to the honest citizen an an you know because uh a person whose going to use a gun for a crime
he's he's not too concerned with the crime of not registering his gun
that's
yeah
i i would agree with that that well you know that's that's why i say i kind of fall into a seven or eight range
you know i i don't have a problem with registration
but uh you know when it comes to restrictions and and
yeah
yeah
it is crazy because like you say this country was founded uh and obviously had a uh had a big interest in in letting them their citizens arm themselves and which uh you know which maybe does cause some problems that maybe other countries with more restrictive laws don't have
but it's one of the prices that you have to pay for for freedom i think
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
oh yeah
everybody who lives out in the country or or around around my area
everybody who lives out in the country has a gun
yeah
you know it's not for uh not for protection or hunting or or anything
just you know for all those reasons just you know nobody thinks anything about having a gun
it's no big deal
i'm in uh trenton texas
yeah
did you say you were in california
well i well i didn't know this program reached out this far
all right
well that's that's a neat deal
oh i be
we have we gave them a few minutes worth
all right
you too
good night there
yeah
i think uh i i'm a i'm an advocate of uh gun control uh maryland
i think you'd be surprised is is very pro gun control
yeah
as a state in fact we have uh they're now introducing some of the more most restrictive gun control laws here in maryland and uh the uh n r a
did a nationwide campaign to raise money to [defeat] uh maryland's uh local state laws and lost maryland uh voted in favor to have gun control here i think the problem is is because of uh we have there's so much crime in the [adjoining] community of washington d c
that uh we're hoping that they could you know if they put in more stricter laws then that crime won't reach out into maryland which is in a sense a suburb of that
uh i guess they're experiencing now i don't know two murders or three murders a day in washington d c normally associated with automatic weapons
so i think that's the uh that's the big press up in the northeast is that they want to remove automatic weapons
so yeah
i can understand you know guns for
and we everybody else in maryland supports that
and i yeah
yeah
i think what you'll find though is that the east coast is very uh is pro gun control
i know i am
but like you know you're a hunter and you're a sport you're a sport hunter
that's true
and that that's why you know in a sense how it doesn't it does inconvenience you
but it could save lives
i think is the way we look at it here
and we're seeing so many murders uh between uh in in washington d c
well i think i think the long run is is to get uh is to get
and this is very active in the politics here in maryland
now then the long run
there's also there's a bill being trying to be passed right now i guess through the federal legislature on uh instant checkups uh a total computerized system
right
and it's year it's years away
but it it will be it probably will be implemented on the east coast first because the f b i headquarters is here in in virginia
and the this will probably be the places that will start to come in faster
so yeah
it will take a while before uh it comes in
but that's one reason why i guess the the plan is here in maryland uh because i actually just received uh information from my uh uh the uh brady organization that uh they want this seven day bill passed until the uh the new bill until they can actually have a computerized system
and i think the idea of the brady bill is to have this seven day waiting period to be able to check up on gun purchases or whatever uh until they can do it automatically on a large computerized system
oh sure
that's that's true
but he had uh he had a history of of depression
and and [suicidal] behavior
you know
uh_huh
yeah
well i don't think he would have been i think that his his type of crime
i i don't think he would have been i think a street criminal would be you know like what you find in washington d c
they would be capable of doing it
i don't think this fellow would have
i think i think the idea is that they also uh my idea too is to remove the automatic weapons from from the markets you know not to be able to purchase walk into a store
and buy an automatic weapon
right
it will eliminate some of the
you know that that type of crime or whatever
yeah
and
right
you can do anything
yeah
and i i think that's you know in a sense uh i have friends that are peace [activists] and i'm not that extreme everything they think that everything comes down to you know the whole world
but i just think that right now we should do a little bit better checking and and uh and i i believe totally that automatic weapons should not be sold in this country uh those are you know [paramilitary] i don't think even sport you know
do you know anybody that sport hunts with a automatic weapon
see and i don't either
so
and i do have friends my brother is a lifelong member of the n r a
so it's fun you know it's uh
but it's just a belief you know i guess we all work towards uh what we think will make it a better society
uh_huh
and everybody's differences of opinion are probably good
that's what makes our you know
yeah
no
but it's a start
i think i think what you i guess you have to look at things almost just like the i guess the like the pro life and pro choice is that you start with something and if you accomplish it then you increase your objectives and and you move to the next
yeah
you can't do it at once
yeah
so once if you can uh i guess if you can show the put a seven day waiting period in
you can [mobilize] for that
then you can also uh uh if you show the weakness in the n r a which is a big lobby you know hopefully you can show enough weakness uh from the the the gun control [advocates] you can show enough weakness that you can you know get the president to put a total ban on on assault weapons or the legislatures you know
yeah
well that's yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
and see now
and if it doesn't work
i would be the first one to say you know just like prohibition didn't work if it doesn't work
i think i'd be one of the first ones to say okay you know it hasn't worked in five years it hasn't reduced any crime the statistics still show the same
so
uh_huh
yeah
well see you already registered
i think the idea is to get a better idea of who purchases guns
uh what type of person purchases what type of of gun and and and also you know the idea that somebody can go out you know a lot of the the mass murderers you know like that one fellow that walked into the post office purchased he was severely depressed uh from he'd just lost his job uh the he was severely depressed he'd been taking [depressant] drugs or whatever
and he walked into a a store bought automatic weapons bought bullets drove immediately back to the post office and shot his former uh supervisor
you know
and i think the idea is if you put a seven day waiting period on some of these instant crimes you know this fellow may seek help before he murders you know ideas like that
and you know in in all honesty i think all of us believe that uh that uh uh you know people kill guns don't
you know that i i think
but the idea is to is the the compulsive neurotic by gun killer
there there are
and and they always take a number of people with them
so i
yeah
yeah
see and in the back of my mind if we save one life if you save one life you have to wait seven days probably less because if you have a clean record it probably would be faster than seven days you know
but you have to wait seven
you have to wait seven
oh
they probably wouldn't not yet
they probably wouldn't
uh_huh
uh_huh
well they might contact maybe an immediate member of your family
and and ask them if you know they thought that you were capable sure
yeah
but i i think it's worth it you know that's
you know they have strict gun laws in london
and they have and england and they have very few murders by by uh automatic weapons and and uh uh guns
you know even the even the police for the longest time didn't really carry guns and all over great britain though the english
no
it's far less
than what we have in the united states
we're like the murder capital of the world in the civilized world
you know above third world countries
yeah
and i don't know it's it's just
who knows it's an argument
i guess you know
but i see that's the thing i totally a hundred percent see everybody's point
my brother's a member of the n r a
we argue about this over dinner
and my mother and dad don't care one way or another
so they just always say oh just shut up boys
i have pretty strong feelings about it
yeah
i think that guns ought to be controlled well let's see on one to ten i guess i vary i actually started out as a member of the n r a
in my youth but having looked at murder statistics in other countries uh it's so dramatic that i think that i'm probably down to about a two or a three
in terms of control
however no
i'm sorry
maybe up to a nine or a ten
uh i opened the [almanac] one day
and it just has murders of by by guns and you look and you look at european countries and and it's like six eleven four
and you get to the u s and it's four thousand
and that tells me something about
yeah
that that's i mean the other problem is there's so many guns out there if you ban sales of guns right now
there'd still be millions and millions and millions of them
but uh would it would really be nice to make it a little harder to get one
so that every punk in the world doesn't doesn't pack a rod yeah
right
yeah
yeah
i think i think that you're right
it would be the pretty much the same problem that that prohibition is in fact pretty much the same problem that drug control is if enough people want it
and they're willing to pay for it
they'll get it
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's certainly true
i mean i own a handgun myself i've actually never fired the thing
but but uh but i went out and bought it intending to to learn to use it
and so on
but i never did
yeah
right
right
yeah
i mean i certainly just walked into the store and bought mine and a box of bullets i suppose i could have gone and blown my own brains out or anyone else's who was
who was nearby
although i must say i have a healthy respect for the thing
yeah
yeah
it's uh it sort of amazes me that that in the gulf war people were really concerned about ten or twenty or thirty or a hundred people dying
and if a thousand people died in that war
it would have been a mess
and if five thousand had died
it would have been considered a national [calamity] and yet that many people die uh from [gunshot] [wounds] yeah
i mean i think that we have our values in a in a sort of in in a funny place
yeah
i mean in some in some fields we seem to have this really profound respect for human life and in other fields we don't
i think guns and automobiles are the two places where we're willing to take our licks you know we're willing to accept sixty thousand highway deaths a year
yeah
yeah
in some areas
but i think in other areas uh i don't know
i guess this this this this gulf war came to mind where where uh well war just comes to mind you know couple a hundred people get get blown up and it's
and it really [shakes] the country to it's roots
maybe just because of the way it happens
and uh but you know we'll go all out uh to save uh a child with a rare disease who makes the newspaper will get millions of dollars in contributions and and all kinds of medical aid because that one life is considered so precious
when it's viewed somehow when it's viewed in
i don't know as as a single life
it becomes very precious and when you view it as a statistic whether it's guns or automobiles or smoking uh people just don't see those as individual lives somehow or they don't they don't uh relate to them personally
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
it
yeah
they are
and and it's really changing the social structure of things i know i went out with a bunch of people
i don't know six or seven people
and we were just sitting around drinking beer and the waitress asked us which one was driving
she didn't want to wasn't going to serve that person anything
um
yeah
i didn't think about that
i sort of thought that
yeah
i thought that was the case i mean if uh if my kid grabs my gun and goes and shoots somebody i would really have the feeling that they're going to come [banging] on my door
um
um
um i don't know what that says it's pretty sad
yeah
yeah
it's well it's just too late
i mean there are countries i've lived in both japan and england where guns are not available even criminals don't carry them or it's so hard to get
and the and the law is so severe for people caught using them that by and large uh they don't
yeah
yeah
yeah
no
i think by the by the the the year nineteen hundred there were probably enough guns in the u s i mean it's just always been a way of life here
the wild wild west
well yeah
that's uh that's a point although uh if that's the case why are we spending all this money on all of this high tech weaponry i wonder
yeah
okay
well i just on on gun control
i just always felt like that
i think i don't think it hurts for anybody to wait for a week or two before they get a gun if somebody goes in to buy one
so that they can check that person out uh i don't believe that most of the criminal acts that are done are done by guns that are bought in a gun shop though i believe it's probably bought across the market
and i don't think gun control is going to have any control over that at all
uh sort of a a little bit of restriction maybe i might say if a if a criminal should go happen to go into a gun store
i don't think it would hurt anybody to wait a week
to go back and pick up that gun
so that they can check them out
and if it is somebody like that then no
but i really think that most of the criminals in our city who have guns do not go into a gun store and buy them i think they get them from other means
oh i don't know like from each other you know uh
i think so
jeez
now i don't know
that's right
nobody over there carries guns
i don't know
but you get away with guns completely i guess
that's right
i agree with that
i agree with that
i we do not own one
uh and i don't intend to buy one and i'm not a hunter i guess those people feel a little bit different
but i don't believe in hunting either
so you know
right
uh_huh
no
i don't either
well it is terrible when you have ride down the street and think somebody could just shoot at you for nothing
which has been in the news a lot lately
you know
no apparent reason
right
right
huh
yeah
[uprising] you think we could ever get to that point where there would be no firearms i don't either
that's the problem
not in this country
right
oh yes
yeah
well i think we ought to have some
right
i could go for that
yeah
i think that would i think that's the only way
well i've enjoyed talking to you
oh
me too
okay
uh_huh
oh where would i be
i would be somewhere around
um seven or eight i think for control
oh no
uh
more on the uh higher end
yeah
uh well for one i think criminals
uh they uh
i mean i'm all for people you know hunting and doing their thing
although i don't hunt personally
i don't uh i don't own any guns
but uh you know i mean i've i've shot guns plenty of guns uh target practice
and uh well i mean i've kind of gone out hunting a little bit you know with boyfriends
but uh it's it's fun
but you really have to have respect for the weapon
and uh but the thing i'm concerned about is you know those people you know like a seven day delay is not going to hurt those people
it's no big thing
uh you know because it's it's you know recreation
whereas the people who are going out to uh you know for crime
you know to rob somebody now i think that's good that they have enough time to check their record
you know
and it hey
yeah
it's for everybody's safety
uh_huh
yeah
i mean i could be five too
oh well
i didn't think about that
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it definitely is
i didn't think about the other side huh
huh
well i served in the service
so you have to
you have to uh shoot a weapon and qualify otherwise you don't pass
so to speak
and uh we had to zero it you know to your own eye each gun you have to kind of zero to your own eye
and how you look at the sights and uh uh well i'm kind of fifty fifty you know
you know hearing your argument it i'm just right smack in the middle
uh well you
well you definitely need to you know have the uh respect for it
and you can't just pick up a gun and expect to hit something you know you might be within let's say a foot range
i mean uh i don't know half a foot to a foot off uh just because of your sights and how you look through a sight as compared to somebody else
oh uh that was uh i think it was just for small it was [quail] i think i mean yeah
that was just nothing not not anything like deer or rabbits or squirrels but uh
uh_huh
oh well here uh actually about thirty minutes away
there was a guy that fired
and the bullet actually went through the deer
and then hit somebody and killed them
so it hit two different targets
uh in
oh no
it's
i'm surprised because usually when a bullet hits something
it uh it it [compresses] you know it loses it's shape
but uh evidently they had bone [fragments] of both
so uh yeah
it killed
and and they've had several instances right here in raleigh
and it was national news
and it was a real big thing
but uh had several uh one woman was out in her backyard
and she had a white glove on
she was taking her laundry down
and the guy thought it was the tail of the uh deer
and shot her
uh i think so
yeah
there was two or three [killings] like right
one was a schoolteacher
and of course all the kids uh were upset about it
and it made the news
so uh you know it's it hit pretty close to home i guess
i know i wouldn't even want to go hiking
you know with people out there hunting
bob
it's it's kind of like abortion it's kind of a touchy subject
but um i feel it any person is has the right to be armed but i don't think they should have an arsenal
i don't believe in uh automatic weapons
i don't believe in in uh having [antitank] guns and um i i
there's just
there's just too many uh weapons around
no
i'm i'm
yeah
no
uh i think that's a good thing in the sense that it um it stops someone that is acting on a impulse however uh anyone that has a revenge factor in mind is is is going to wait that out
um most um dallas has if you read in the papers recently um the um uh murder ratio in dallas is one point seven
i think per day
uh and ninety somewhat percent of these know the [perpetrator] it's it's not it's not criminals that are going out and killing people
it it's people with guns that are that are shooting other people
no
someone that's got one
and and and for some reason whatever um they became uh [enraged] or uh you know uh some of these are somebody's dating somebody's uh girl friend or ex wife or um a person that they know and and it's it's again something that you know it's it's a uh it's a decision of uh emotion not um it's not something you can really control you know i don't think you can
i don't think you can regulate it
if they don't use a gun
maybe they'll use a knife
sure
well
yeah
and and you look at the you know drive by shootings and things like that with with young uh people involved
it's it's a very volatile situation
and it's a funny world that we live in
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
sure
well that's parental control
and that's you know that extends beyond guns that extends to drugs and everything else that that is bad in our society and and we don't have the we don't have the parental control that we need
that's a
well um gosh it set up on a scale one to ten
uh you know i i think i would too
i think i'd [straddle] the fence
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well
right
right
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
oh well i agree with you
uh it seems like the the crime rate has gone up even more um here this year they're talking about uh there're more murders in dallas
um almost since last year
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh yeah
so but yeah
i i just i wouldn't want to ban it completely
um
but uh somehow there needs to be the one thing that i did like was that where you had to wait seven days
um you know um
yeah
yeah
yeah
waiting seven days
so that they can make sure that check it out and everything's okay
and to me that was uh that was perfectly acceptable
you know because if you are a law abiding citizen you're not going to want to you know it's not going to matter to you if you have to wait a little while
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
oh i agree with you
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
no
i i don't think that they should ban it
i i really don't
um you know i i don't have a gun in the house myself because i have uh children
and uh you know feel really uncomfortable about that
but if i was by myself
i'd definitely have a gun
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
okay
uh_huh
yeah
so that
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
but see these people i know they keep them up underneath their pillows you know sitting right on top of their dresser drawers
i mean it's no wonder you know the kids get in there
and then they blow uh other people away
so
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
so that um yeah
but that that's about the biggest reason why i just never never and and i won't even let my my son play with play guns either
you know not even get that idea about about them
yeah
there you go there you go
that's right
there you go
yeah
me too
oh i've gone back and forth on this subject uh many years
my husband use to be uh when we were dating he use to really enjoy going out and hunting you know he grew up learning how to hunt
uh so i had grown up thinking that was an awful thing
and then as i learned more about it
i realized some of the advantages
and and then the real reason people most people go out there and hunt
and so i kind of got accustomed to the idea
but then over the years
and when you hear so much about uh what what's actually going on out there
it is kind of a volatile subject
and and i i tell you at this point in time i cannot give you uh a real answer to how i feel on it
i think i would agree with the with some of the uh things the movements out there that are trying to get a a time at least a time restraint on purchasing guns
so that you know there's some research that can go on before someone can just walk out with a gun
i do feel like that's worthwhile and making sure that that kind of thing goes on
but as far as not allowing sales of guns to the public
i think that's a little drastic and not realistic
because as we all know when there's a ban on anything
the people that shouldn't have them still get it anyway
so i don't see where that's going to solve anything personally
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i have to agree with you there
uh yeah
i think that after my husband actually got away from hunting just due to the fact that he was busy working and all
he's also kind of lost the the love of going out there and hunting like he once use to
in fact i think if he really had the time to get back in the wilderness i think he had rather grab a camera now than the the gun and try
yeah
and try to rather capture it that way than uh because really there's no sense of uh the joy of it like he once had
and i think that you know what he was use to when he was a kid and what they did as a family
compared to
now what his priorities are i think
yeah
there are some real strong minded people on this issue
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's the problem there are many fools out there that just don't think
you know always you know my kids are smarter and they know about guns and what happens then it may not happen to their kid
but it will happen to the neighbor who doesn't understand it
and happens to come by and visit or you know that kind of thing unfortunate that there are many people out there that just don't have a lot of common sense
and i think that could happen
oh i don't know
does it really register what we're saying
uh
let's see i got confused it was a one to ten on what
oh uh you know i would have to put myself at a five
oh
from the from the scale of one to ten i i lean more towards no restriction we by the constitution we have the the right to bear arms and i believe our freedoms are being constantly [eroded] all the time and president bush just signed a law that that banned lot of automatic weapons and and such where they wouldn't do any more damage than some winchester rifles or things like that
what do you think about that
well that's a that's a that's a good point
also we have to we have to be [cognizant] that our society's becoming more and more haves and have nots and the main the main purpose say for the police is to keep the have nots from taking from the haves and that is the purposes
of the gun control
oh i i i agree
i my point was that the police want to get rid rid of the people of of guns and what's happening is that i see
i i view this country as as as we have peoples and societies and cultures and things that are be that are [oppressed] and so that to to take the way the those weapons
so they can protect themselves is that's what the means
and that's what they're trying to do
and by [enacting] all this legislation that's true
yeah
well you know i another perspective is that the people in this country
i'll just for not lack of a better word i'll say they're spoiled
they haven't been except for the immigrants that have come to this country
they're not [cognizant] of war and and chaos and terrorism like lebanon or countries that have been invaded
and if our country needs if our country's invaded we need the people to to rise i mean the the military
and the police isn't going to do it all for us
and and if we don't have the the
what do you think on uh on a scale of one to ten where would you rate yourself on on gun control
most and ten being no restrictions at all
uh_huh
yeah
i think i would be be somewhere around a four or five myself
and uh it seems to me like there's there's it's not it's not fair to just kind of do everything all the same with all guns
cause they're not all the same you know
like hand guns and uh assault rifles i think are a little bit different than rifles and shotguns
so
and you don't need three hundred rounds a minute to uh to get hold of a deer and and if
you did it really wouldn't be worth eating
so
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that makes sense
that makes a lot of sense
i don't see uh i mean it's not like you're going to go hey i'll go hunting today
and usually if you are going to go hunting
it's pretty early in the morning anyway
and the store is not going to be open
so a three day waiting period makes perfect sense to me
i guess the only real questions then is uh is gun control does it does it work
i mean
can you enforce it
uh_huh
yeah
i don't
i guess i mean the only thing that i i question is i mean i think if if it was really easy to enforce that it it would be great
the only thing that uh that would worry me about it is that the only real way that i know to enforce it is if someone commits a crime while having weapons not registered you can tag on a couple of extra years
but as it is now you put someone in prison
and they're out in you know
one fifth of the time they were sentenced to anyway
so i mean they're they're not even staying in prison without the extra years on there much less
i don't think they would be staying any longer
with extra years [tagged] on there
uh_huh
i think you might have had i guess i'm that got to be
but i like the idea of the uh the waiting period because i don't think that i mean i really think if someone wants to get a gun to commit a gun to commit a crime
they are going to get a gun
but uh if someone is just like all hot and bothered and ready to go out and uh and get someone just because they're all charged up emotionally that a three day waiting period you're not going to stay that angry for that long
at least i'm not
yeah
and so uh i i guess it's the subject is uh gun control
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i sort of believe the same way
i think i'm i'm probably considered more of a conservative
but i still think that uh with regards to gun control the uh like convicted felons you know they shouldn't be able to have one uh also i'm in if you look at it uh
like say a waiting period
i'm in favor of a waiting period as just that a waiting period before somebody buys a a handgun like you say a week or two weeks as a cooling off period
but i i i guess the uh n r a
they kind of look at it as a spring board towards more restrictive gun controls and so i can kind of see both both sides of of the of the uh issue on that
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that that is true uh
as a as a toy you know i mean if you call a gun a toy they would be it would be interesting to have one shoot one
but uh but you're right
there's no no real legitimate need for one unless you consider uh like personal defense like if your home or something
that's kind of extreme i i don't personally own one
but uh it's it's really it really is a touchy issue
i know uh the uh like you mentioned the plastic handguns the glock it seems to me like like that that weapon they could
it seems to me like they could [bypass] all the
i i think the uh the major concern is is that they think that it can be slipped through airport security
like it it's impersonal to x rays seems to me like technically that would be very simple to solve just put some sort of a a metal flake or something that would show up on on x rays you know to show the [outline] of the gun
and then you'd still have the advantages of the gun which is i believe light weight
and uh that would uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's uh the n r
they're uh they're almost a little too radical in the other extreme i i i'm pretty strong in favor of of personal gun ownership
but they uh they might even get a little carried away you know with the lobbying and and whatnot
but
well i think we have a lot of laws on the books right now that if they were kept and followed would take care of a lot of the problems we have
pardon
yes
the gun the gun control
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
we require permits like if you're going to carry a pistol for protection or for whatever reason you you know
have you to have a permit for that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i i just i just don't feel that uh a stronger restrictions is going to stop a person who really wants to have one for misuse i really don't personally feel that it's going to help
well those we don't need
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
no
no
somebody's who's into into shooting though like you say [sharpshooters] or uh that type of thing wouldn't be so bad
but uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i don't think the laws are going to keep them from getting them if they really want one
i just i really don't believe that
uh_huh
oh definitely
definitely
uh_huh
that's i say if they would use the laws they have on the books i think it would stop quite a bit of what goes on
but they're
i don't know it it sometimes seems like they're too lenient with some things
but yet if a guy [steals] a loaf of bread for their family he's in worse trouble than they are
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's kind of a cop out
uh_huh
oh yeah
definitely
yeah
yeah
i think a lot of people put themselves in the in the place of the person that has done the crime
and they think of how they would react and then they don't think anybody could do the things that this person is accused of doing
and i think that sometimes colors
some of their feelings on uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
they should be kept there and overcrowding of course that has a lot to do with i think a lot of times with uh the type of sentence that's given you know what's available for keeping them what
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i don't have a my my my husband and my one boy he hunted uh
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well some people have no sense at all in shooting to know how far to be away from buildings and that to shoot i mean some of them use no sense at all
uh_huh
well we've had that happen in our area also uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i think it depends on the community now we're rural also
and our houses are not they're not that close
like we have a shooting range across the road from our home
but it's far enough away if we have fields around it
and it's it's far enough away from you know houses and that type of thing that uh
no
it's just our own personal
we just have a a personal lot
yeah
yeah
now we do have a [sportsman's] uh club who has a an indoor shooting range
and it's very nice
our our one boy was a [sharpshooter] he was interested in
yeah
he was interested in that then uh did a
uh no
not really
he doesn't do it now because he's not here he lives in pittsburgh now
and so he he really hasn't been doing too much shooting lately
but he he really did enjoy it
uh i don't think they had to have not for shooting not for their rifles and that it would be just like uh going hunting you don't need a permit to carry
you know you're not allowed to carry them loaded or anything like that
uh
no
no
i don't think so
uh the rifles that they use like in their uh uh r o t c
now i think they had to i think they had to do a little bit more when they use them they also had a club at the college here that he shot in and they had a few more restrictions there
right
right
yeah
yeah
there's no there's really no call for for that
that type of weapon
uh_huh
uh_huh
now the lady said they she wanted us to rate from one to ten as to how we felt on a one being uh
yeah
ten ten would be no regulations at all
let's see
no wait how was it
okay
yeah
yeah
i would go along with that
a happy medium so to speak
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i don't know if we solved it
but it is a problem
and it unfortunately uh i'm not real crazy about guns myself
but being from hunting families i tolerate them
and i like i like them to learn their safety rules and that and and i think that is good that they have to have a uh now here at least they have a [hunter's] safety course that the the young people have to take before they're allowed to hunt
yes
yes
they they have to do that before they can get a license to hunt
uh_huh
well i tell you
i'm i'm for some really strong gun control measures but i mean that opens a lot of questions that i don't have any answers for
it's like i'd i'd like to see a lot of controls um on it
and because i would like uh i think the you know with a goal and a purpose in mind of seeing violence decrease in our society
but uh how to get from here to there
i'm not sure
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
but i i think what would happen though is that
yes
you would have a certain type of criminal a certain criminal element
that would um be able to find a way to get the guns
but i think in a lot of domestic uh disputes and a lot of family disputes um i'm not sure that those people would be able to get a hold of the guns
you know in other words a a family that has a history say of physical abuse or physical violence
but isn't the kind of family that's involved in criminal activities if if there were gun controls and that there just were not guns accessible to that type of family
oh yeah
yeah
uh_huh
do you
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i know
well that's the thing i'm not really sure if i want to um learn how to use one i'm not sure i could use one i i've thought a lot about this
there something that came up that made me think a lot about it
and i i'm not sure
uh somebody was saying that you'd have to you know be able to pull the trigger in the end
and i guess i always thought if it was threatening my personal safety or especially like my kids you know
you have uh_huh
oh my goodness
you're kidding
i can imagine
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
but yeah that's the
that is the thing see as in the past say five years i've [evolved] from thinking no
i'm really am so much of a pacifist that i would have to find another way to deal with the situation or deal with being victimized you know i couldn't use a gun
hold on just a minute
sorry
we have a kind of a open house and the sound really travels um
uh_huh
no
yeah
but i but i what i started to say is i've come to the point now where i'm thinking no
i really want to take a self defense course
and i want to take control over
um you know my own defense
and my own safety i i i think i'm i need to take more responsibility for that than i do right now i think i just i allow myself to think well it will never happen to me
or it won't happen to you know i'm not going to have to deal with that
and i just i don't think that's it will i'm sure
yeah
yeah
yeah
oh boy
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
wow
right
right
holy smoke
that's wild
i was again i was talking with somebody just last week
and about crime in general i guess it's been on the news a lot lately
and i must be in the back of everybody's mind
but i was saying if people around here think if they just get a better security system and a higher fence that you know they're going to take care of themselves
and i said there's it's going to come to a point where that you can't get a fence
that's high enough and a security system
that's good enough
yeah
because no kidding
no
i i don't know
uh_huh
oh that they can't do behind
that's something wow
yeah
well i can see how that might be
now i mean you don't have to answer this or not
if you don't want to because i know it's a personal thing
but with the crime that your family was involved in was there were there guns involved in that
there were gosh
that is really
well they don't have to use them in that case
i mean they just have to have them
they weren't yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
really
wow
is he just crazy
wow
he has killed people
and he's and he's out
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
if he could yeah
gosh
uh_huh
uh_huh
there's no prison space
right
you got to do one or the other
uh_huh
uh_huh
gosh
yeah
i because we can't yeah
have a chance
did you did you hear about that um prison reform that's going up in washington state or oregon or someplace up there where they're taking criminals who are repeat offenders
and i mean really repeat offenders that uh have raped several times or child [molesters] that have [molested] several children over and over again
and they have put them in
i don't even think they call it a a a prison
but that's some kind of special it's a separate building in a separate location
and they are just in there [indefinitely] they don't have any time when they are going to be released
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i i understand that
no
that's right
that's right
no
i can i i can understand
and respect that i have you know my own three kids
and i i've i saw a story on t v about one time about a father who did take revenge on um someone who had hurt his children and and shot the guy
and uh i you know i remembered that that was years ago
and i remember seeing that
and i i really could understand where that was coming from
yeah
yeah
i i've heard that
yeah
and using it
yeah
and terrible accidents do happen when there's kids around
but on the other hand
you can't rely i mean the whole time i was growing up up until last five years
i always thought well the police will handle it you know they'll get it under control
and i just don't feel that way
i don't feel that's true anymore
they're not going to be able to handle it
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
wow
that that would be hard to understand
what do you think about gun control
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and i i think i think that is right
uh the only thing i object to is like uh machine guns and uh
yeah [faintly] uh_huh [faintly] do you think uh like reagan of course before that you know he was in westerns all all that time
and and uh he was real gung ho and then then just now just this last year
it seems like he's he was uh
and he was not that bill does not restrict anything outside of just having to wait seven days
but it is interesting that he turned around for some reason
because it
uh_huh
uh_huh
i think
and i think a lot of times you know that uh criminals do not go out and buy a uh what uh uh a good gun costs like two hundred to five hundred dollars
you know a handgun they go out and buy the cheapest thing they can
and then then they go rob a liquor store or something
yeah
that is true
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
that is right
and a lot of times like uh what is his name
i cannot remember his name
right
the guy in the austin tower uh [whitman] you know he was sane and and i guess they could have said like lee [harvey] [oswald] was sane when he bought his gun you know
but he bought his by mail anyway
but later on you know something can happen they can they can have a brain [tumor] or they can break down one way or another
yeah
right
uh_huh
right
yeah
he might have
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i do not either
yeah
that is true because you know once once they start [clamping] down on one thing or being against one group then the uh
it gives them a [foothold] to to be against somebody else you know
and uh and the hunters you know the hunters uh with what gun species there are left
well especially i mean using a rifle white tail [deers] mostly
you know
that is what people hunt for the most with a rifle uh you know they have every right to have a rifle and be able to to hunt
uh_huh
and that uh i think it was a rifle that that kid shot that burglar with in arlington or wherever it was it is
i think
it was
uh two years ago or so now
you know
uh_huh
yeah
i wondered how he managed that
uh_huh
exactly
uh_huh
and and more and more of that kind of thing happens
i mean
can you imagine
i mean it used to be like with the [dapper] bandit is one guy you know with a gun and a a lot of the stuff that he did they did not publicize because it would [breach] the security of the rest of the the banks
one of the things that he did is is uh any counter top that was there up to maybe like four feet high he could [vertical] jump on top of the counter top and and and jump down and and be with those people behind the counter before they knew it
you know
and they they showed a a a a piece of tape of that one time
but it looked like they had cut it up some
and that was one of the things that was so scary about him
and not only did he he uh rob banks
but he uh at the time when he first started he robbed the safeway that my brother was working at at the time and that is how he
that is how he surprised the cashier he jumped he jumped back there with her
and and you know there was nothing she could do by that time
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i would
yeah
and then uh_huh
yeah
right
like the the judge what was it two or three months ago
the judge in uh fort worth
i think maybe it was dallas
but he he just convicted uh a man for murder
and the guy jumped up and and apparently knew where the judge kept his gun
and held it on him for a couple of hours
uh [subject's] gun control
uh do you own any guns
yeah
yeah
i know the sort
i'm not much into guns myself either
i know it enjoy working with them from time to time
but personal opinion is a whole lot of weapons available in markets that really shouldn't be available at all
uh
yeah
they got
well very few of them
it they do make some for bird hunting
but still those aren't real high powered they're just you know small [caliber] with a long barrel on them
but uh no
the and these assault weapons the real short stock short barrels and [armor] [piercing] ammunition
yeah
they sell them there at wal mart
three different models of glock yeah
wal mart sporting goods department here in town carries the glock they haven't got the the latest version but uh they've got them
i think seventeen rounds in a double wide clip craziness like that
practically yeah
no
no
i didn't
luby's
what's a luby's
oh wait yeah
uh that's been several months ago
okay
yeah
i did hear about that
they weren't the least bit sure what happened what what set him off
oh see i hadn't heard anything about you know what the bulk of his victims were but
yeah
that's what he was using was it a rifle or a pistol no
no
the the other gun
okay
no
i hadn't i i hadn't heard what it was he was carrying all i knew was he'd been in there shooting i hadn't heard anything about what he was carrying yeah
i do know they have a fast uh fast recovery uh goodness
well uh they
yeah
probably ought to be longer than that really
seven's probably as long as you can expect the law to to require yeah
seven day wait waiting period and a check through the f b i files and
yeah
yeah
they ought to carry they ought anybody with a permit to carry a gun
uh you ought to have a permit for any kind of gun to carry period
whether it's pistol or rifle or it doesn't matter
uh the permit you ought to ought to be required to keep it in your [billfold] at all times
whether you got your gun with you or not
like a driver's license
yeah
uh it's part of the problem with guns in general they got hundreds out there you know the only experience
they got is the you know the last couple times they got about half [looped] and went out and the gun
uh uh out in the woods and started blowing up bottles
every hunting season scares the stew out of me even just to drive by a section of woods bothers me a little bit
because i know there's [maniacs] out there
the first couple of days
yeah
well later on in the season it gets to be less of a problem
so how do you rate gun control
i agree
uh_huh
i agree
uh_huh
oh my gosh
so i guess they don't have a drug problem over there huh
yeah
oh no
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
well um just recently i think it was sunday on sixty minutes they had an article or uh a news story about uh gun control
and in florida
they have started something where you know you always have to be eighteen or twenty one to buy a gun
but um they have started where they do a background trick
and so you can go apply for this gun
but it takes like seven days
until you can get it
and i think that's a good idea
you i'm not for total gun control because i feel like people need to protect themselves
but um i think that you know the background check is a great idea
was it brady yeah
i didn't know about that
uh_huh
i think that's great
but they also said on this um news story that that people can sell it to one another
and they wouldn't have to do the background check and i mean they went on to tell about all the the illegal guns and everything
and that i think that sixty minutes bought some guns
and um like an uzi even
and and so you know there's a lot of controversy and people walk around at gun shows with their big guns on their back saying for sale
and you don't have to do any of that kind of checking i mean any they would sell it to anybody
uh_huh
enough money that's right
uh_huh
yeah
there is
oh really
well um my dad and my brother both have a collection of guns
and um i don't know
i guess we've been taught responsibility when it comes to guns
but accidents always happen
but my dad has always kept his [hid] from us
i mean even to this day i don't really
i
right
i know where his big gun is like his shotgun and stuff
but um his pistols and stuff like that
and he keeps those hidden and it is just for our protection you know if we did have a [prowler] he he keeps it like um he has the little rotary dial thing
and like i think it's the second shot or the third shot the [bullet's] in there
but i mean he'll give them two chances
and um
right
yeah
his wife
that's happening more and more often too
huh_uh
oh my gosh
that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
because she might be
um apt to go get it a little quicker than uh_huh
oh no
yeah
yeah
really
if it landed on her pillow beside her
if she had uh just rolled over
oh my gosh
yeah
i do too
um i think i would rate probably a seven
just because um you're right
i think that if we did ban them the bad guys would still have them
i mean
probably like the country malaysia is that where you said
i mean they started it
oh really
uh well i'm kind of in the middle
i lived in the ozarks for a long time where a lot of people do a lot of hunting and uh now i live in dallas where there's a lot of crime
and i'm all for uh the average joe being able to have a gun
but then again i'm not you know as far as this seven day law and all this stuff for two weeks or whatever
i'm all for that too
i don't think anybody needs to be able to go buy a gun right away
if you want a gun for a legitimate purpose you should be willing to wait
long enough for someone to verify that you're not a a potential criminal
yeah
and i i don't think you know i think it's one of the constitutional rights that is important
and you know we we should be allowed to have guns
i don't think they should turn around and say you know the government says you can't have a gun
because that just i don't know
any any any country
where they've ever [revolted] you know it takes guns to revolt and sure we don't need to
but uh never know there might come a time
so
well they do that now
i mean you're not supposed to have a hand guns
well maybe you're allowed to have them say in the city
but you're not allowed to use them in the city limits and things
well what does that do to people that uh use it for protection like you know i personally i don't have a gun
but i wouldn't mind having one i live in a neighborhood where the crime rate is going up somebody breaks in my house
i wouldn't mind having a gun you know in self defense but uh
yeah
yeah
well i've never had it never had to have one in the city you know when i was in the country
we used them and out there was a necessity
i mean you don't
kill a [copperhead] with a rock
you shoot them
but uh
i think there need to be stronger gun control laws that can be that can uh that uh what am i trying to say in in cities in urban areas
but i don't think guns should be banned i just think it should be harder for for a criminal to get hold of them
and of course the black market anyone can get one if they want one
well that
i guess that's the whole point of some of this
legislation they're they're eventually going to make
he turns around yeah
and passes it on yeah
there's no perfect answer
i'm more for
no
i'm actually more for less control because i think it's it's a
right
that that i would hate to see us lose
and the more
the more you give gun control the little the little bit of time before long you don't have anything i mean i'm sure when they started out with taxes
they didn't plan on taking thirty percent of your income
but uh they just start with a little bit you know
yeah
i don't know what the deal is on that i know you can't buy them any more
you can't
can't buy imported ones anyway
or is it the other way around
right
right
i don't see any reason for anybody to have one unless they're fighting a war you know
right
right
right
yeah
i wouldn't need an uzi though
or a u b forty
i mean a a pistol would be fine
it's more for a scare [tactic] than anything else
i don't really want to shoot somebody
but i guess if uh it was me or him
i would have to
yeah
course you've got people that are pulling them out on the highways down here it's like you cut them off and boom they blow you away
so you have to draw the line
i guess
i don't know
so if we're supposed to pick a number i'd guess i'd pick oh that no gun control was was ten
i guess i'd have to pick about eight or something down there toward the low end
well supposedly in seven days they're going they're going to look through your background and make sure you are not an ex con or don't have
yeah
i don't either
it might stop some people
but some people with a history of something
but uh you know i guess there's a lot of information out there on everybody whether we we believe it or not they know everything you've done for the last ever since you got a social security number
really
so uh i guess they've got some time to make sure you haven't been in prison or don't have a history of you know i don't know
i don't know
i really don't know what the the actual on how how they work that out
i imagine with the the way everything is computerized now it won't take much you know a perspective buyer comes in
and they throw in your social security number on some nationally network system
and it based on whatever criteria
it's got it says yes or no
this guy can get a gun or he can't and whoever decides those [criterias] you know that's
something the legislatures do
i really don't know
i don't know what the you know what the status of those laws are
yeah
i would think if they're going to make a law it would have to be something uh
it'd be a crime to uh not enforce it
and uh
all right
take care
yeah
okay
uh where do you stand on gun control
your a one then
uh_huh
i i uh your against gun control
why
that's a good that's a very good point very good point
i personally i guess i would be a five they said pick a one to ten
uh because i i'm i think i'm dead smack in the middle
i think that if there is going to be a ban on gun control that it should be enforced like you said
and i feel like if there if if there is a band put upon us
it wouldn't be a enforced just like um there's suppose to be working on a drug problem suppose be working on our education
problems things like that
and those aren't being enforced
but at the same time i want to see people protect themselves because things like the drug the drug war is not is not helping and i feel like i have to protect myself when i go out somewhere because there's so many people they're crazy people out there
you know
and so
uh_huh
uh_huh
exactly
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it's just it's just like the drugs
i mean they're legal
but you can get them anywhere
if you want
you can get it
uh that is a shame
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
exactly
the reason i think i'm so cloudy on the issue is because i mean it it
i want to protect myself
but at the same time
i don't want anyone to have a gun that could harm me you know what i'm saying
and so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
exactly
uh_huh
right
but everyone weren't they weren't going around killing each other
trouble yeah
but do you think more and more people now are carrying guns and weapons
i mean just to i'm talking about the regular like
joe blow on the street
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
i mean you you have to because i i mean i don't have a gun
it just scares me to have one
but i feel like that very soon
i'm going to have to get one just
because i would probably feel safer right
now i have a knife under the seat in my car uh if i'm going anywhere at night anywhere
i mean if i'm just stepping outside my door i carry something on me if i'm you know going up to my door and i don't have anything i put my keys in some kind of weapon like position in my hand you know
i'm sorry
yes
yes
i am
i have a boyfriend
but you know he's not always around
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
my boyfriend
that that got me you know put the knives here and there
and you know just different things
and
yeah
and i have mace on my key chain i mean i have a lot of you know little things that that i don't i don't like to have to carry them
you know
but i have to
yeah
uh_huh
no
no
that's right
that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
now that's just
[lunacy] that's
yeah
he'll find
some other way whether it's a gun
or bomb or what
oh do they
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh uh uh
and still got a gun
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh
if you offer a uh enough monies to somebody they'll go get you a gun
you know if your not eligible you know come to me offer me enough money i'll go get you a gun you know there's probably a lot of people like that
yeah
uh_huh
uh uh
right
and not probably going to help too much
uh_huh
exactly
a lot a lot of people that are in jail you know
it's their first shooting or why do people you know not everybody has shot someone before
uh_huh
uh_huh
baseball bats i didn't know that
i could see knives yeah [stabbings] and things
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i didn't know baseball bats was like that
uh
uh_huh
that's a very deadly weapon
i mean one blow at that
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i'm sorry
very true
a lot of sense
uh
uh uh
right
right
you sound like you're pretty strongly
yeah
right
what do you think about making some kind of application or something
do you
okay
uh_huh
yeah
uh uh uh
uh
well that's a lot of help
uh_huh
and they probably
really do that
uh_huh
okay
i live in richardson texas
you bet
well see our subject was gun control
i'm sort of uh prejudiced prejudiced on this subject because that's my vocation that's what i do for a living
because i'm a i'm a manufacturer's sales rep
and i sell hunting and shooting supplies working working for eighteen different companies
so i guess i would be sort of pro pro pro guns
okay
no
i agree one hundred percent
i agree with you one hundred percent jean i'll tell you that somewhere
i saw a bumper sticker years ago
i'd like to see more of them i think uh speaking from my my viewpoint think it read something like uh when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns
and i think that sort of speaks for itself
i believe uh in some gun control
but i think it's
and i you know in selling to the or selling for the industry to dealers i think that it's the federal government's stand that should be taken and i think that dealers now or to by a gun
now an individual just has to go in a store and and show his drivers license
and if he has a texas state drivers license if he lives in texas
he can go to any gun dealer and buy a gun merely by filling out a yellow form
and and paying for the firearm and leaving
right
it would be handy if they had you know computers being like they are if they would have some kind of a computer program on a national level where you could just dial an eight hundred number
and and run a check on someone
i would be for something like that
that's true
absolutely
yeah
you bet
absolutely
well that's wonderful
well that's great
we've always done the same thing
and being in the business i've sold guns for twenty seven years
i'm fifty two years old
and i've sold guns for twenty seven years worked for some major manufacturers like winchester and people like that
and and i always consider a a firearm
i know they're very dangerous
but i always consider them a sporting firearm
and i realize that just as you say
some people don't think of them as that
but that's how i think of them being that i'm in the business
but main thing is just be education and communication on the subject
and that's something we've always tried to do
and i'm a strong believer in that
absolutely right
no handguns are permitted in d c at all
uh_huh
uh sort of
yeah
i live in virginia
i don't i work in d c
so how does that rate you in the uh the scale that they've given us
one means total restriction nine and a half
are you an n r a member
right
this is a rather a right
huh
i i i fall smack [dab] in the middle
uh yeah uh
exactly
i mean i'm originally from new york
so
right
already have them or can get them if they want them
right
well i mean the same thing went
everyone uses england as an example saying oh well you know there no one has guns in england and look at the crime rate there
it's so much lower
but
right
right
uh_huh
right
well i mean look at d c
i mean you're talking
you're talking about a district where handguns are illegal to be have to have at all
and it's also the murder capital of the country
right
exactly
right
crime
uh_huh
they're not allowed to do that right
uh no
okay
i get the point yes
i've had a lawn before
right
do you have any interest in gun control would you like to start first uh go ahead
oh yeah
that's right
yeah
i guess i would pick a five
i'm not quite sure i i share an interest of of guns and i have some guns and i have two brothers in laws who when we get together
we go [plinking] and and one of them hunts so we've talked about it
i don't quite understand the n r a uh c i a type stand it seems to me
they'd be guns can become an a hobby
and they they take the approach of uh too too hard nosed on it
i don't quite understand
i don't i i i mean i my brother in law hunts and and he doesn't need a automatic or semiautomatic gun to hunt
and i don't quite understand the uzis and all that
i think those should be banned i don't think that uh
oh yeah
hunters uh should get whatever they think they need
but heck we've had hunting rifles for a hundred years
and so uh they're certainly not uzis
and things like that
oh
oh yeah
that i think that's great
that's a great attitude
no
right
right
they had twenty twos
yeah
well i agree
right
there you go
i think that's a that's a
you've eaten [raccoon] and possum oh my goodness
oh yeah
yeah
oh yeah
i don't know why the uh i always did uh i'm probably a five although i haven't really
that's not a very well thought out uh since they gave a number system uh my brother in law one of them hunts and the other one is a real collector and we get together
we go shooting and i've been a lot of [plinking] and uh as a kid you know as a teenager we'd go to the rifle range and everything
and shoot twenty twos and everything
problems we have in society is like today some teenager locally here in the metroplex used a a twenty two whatever
and it's on the news
if you listen to the news tonight and went after his teacher and fired three or four shots uh at the school now to me gun control is not going to control it
but the parents
you know a teenager you know below eighteen or whatever the age should be
right
guns should be an adult should be responsible now i think that if you have a gun an adult then you have a responsibility for whether you call it locking it up or putting it somewhere where absolutely no teenager can get to it
that's
oh well
that includes little kids too
yeah
yeah
right
i'm not sure
it should be part of a crime bill
i think i i i think guns need controls intelligent controls but i don't think it has maybe a one percent relationship directly to crime uh buying uzis and all that may you know i think that the cops should have the best weapons and whatever they need
but i don't think the average uh [plinker] or hunter needs to go out and buy be able to buy that i don't think he should uh be allowed to buy an uzi or something
oh yeah
i know it's it's shooting against people they go out you know i i've seen them on tv
and they actually have these little clubs where they go out and practice shooting each other you know i mean
yeah
and i i think uh it should be in the hunting realm i don't know why the n r a
doesn't have nice range
you talk about a range
you're right ranges are hard to we have them here in arlington uh one here in fort worth i go to
but uh it would think the n r a
would take the positive side and open up some nice practice ranges and teach it you know and rather than just uh try to lobby for it you know they ought to come out in the open uh and open up some maybe they do have a lot of good ranges but the ones i go to are just ranges you know i don't
yeah
well my my brother in law's in san antonio
and he uh they're they're closing the the ranges they're slowly but surely closing so when i can go here in fort worth
it's south part of fort worth is run very well of course it has guns uh to buy
but they have a state trooper i guess he's in his spare time he's always there with a forty five automatic on his side
so that that's the only range
i've been to that has a cop there
right
no
i think that's the i've seen him there are some real amateurs that
yeah
there's some real amateurs that come
i saw one one time when somebody came with with a [nonhunting] one of these
and he was just you know moving it waving it pardon me
no
he's just there to uh tell everybody hey this is where you aim and watch it
you're endangering the rest of the people
and of course when you go
and take your targets down he's there to make sure that people that's what it was people did not totally unload their guns when you you when you take the targets down you walk in front of your own guns
and he would look over everyone's shoulder and say hey your your [gun's] not [unloaded] you know you have to unload you [walkout] there in this particular range out here in fort worth now the other ranges it's always somebody else
but the the inspector would which by and say or the rifle range uh owner would come by and look at everyone's gun before he would step in front of you
and so you need some sort of common sense as well as expertise with a gun
before you put a bunch of dummies out there with guns now
oh yeah
that's great
yeah
that's a good question
yeah
i i have girls
so they haven't been in scouts
does does scouting have a gun section where they they teach them twenty twos
oh that's great
i think that's the way it should be
they just [plink] yeah
yeah
and again that's why i don't think it should be part of a criminal or a crime bill because they
well i've i've seen all kinds of [carnage] and i'm very much in favor of laws to restrict the access to guns
uh i you know i cannot understand the the argument on the other side
uh_huh
i don't understand either
now there there probably are cases
of certain occupations certain actually certain individuals
in certain occupations who would for who that may be legitimate
uh but there are whole countries where guns are banned uh i think in the united kingdom of japan where the [homicide] rates are far far lower than the united states
i don't see how it possibly makes sense for us to have all these guns lying about
uh_huh
no
i'm in washington
yes
uh_huh
yeah
yes
that's that's amazing
yeah
yeah
yeah
well it happens a lot around here too
uh in fact maybe even worse
in terms of frequency uh drive by shootings in high schools and you know
yes
yeah
yeah
yes
uh uh everybody heard about that
yeah
so i'm i'm i think on the scale at the one end you know
uh
that wait
i thought uh uh eight nine ten was no restrictions whatever whatever
we're down at the same end
whatever end that is
yeah
yeah
would you somehow get them away from those who already have them
would you somehow disarm those who are already armed how would you do that
in many cases not uh
because many cases they're they're stolen uh i i i have no idea
what the statistics are on that
but uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i don't know this for absolute fact
but i have a suspicion that the gun industry that manufactures these things and also those who dealers who sell them are are a major force behind the n r a
and all these campaigns that that stir people up and try to get them to uh to to right to oppose them because they have an economic reason over and above whatever
the their private preferences are until the thing has to be won on an economic ground too
so there has to be some way to compensate those who lose at the yeah
right
yeah
uh_huh
um i don't know
i don't use guns
i mean and i don't you know i i don't have any occasion to
i've never been much of a hunter and any of that
so i guess i haven't really felt real strongly one way or the other
how about you
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
well i guess i do too
i um i think that law that they tried to pass i'm not even sure if they passed it or not the seven the seven day waiting period
i i think that's a a reasonable law and i'm not real sure why the n r a was against it
uh you know it it really didn't
the only thing it restricted was that you couldn't pick up the gun right away
um
yeah
seven days shouldn't be a big a big deal
yes
right
and if you do you want the gun for something else
other than than shooting target because you can always get a gun to go and shoot you know targets with
or you know even hunt you can borrow a gun to do that
but uh if you want it right away you want it for a different reason than than a legitimate reason for having a gun
yeah
it
yes
and i i wonder about that because they're the sale of automatic weapons because uh i mean how many how many rounds does it take to kill a deer
if you need thirty shots to kill a deer you should be uh you should be shooting with a camera
you're dangerous anyway
that's right
so i yeah i guess we uh we kind of feel the same way about about that
i uh
it's it's funny because i was over at in mckinney the other day in picking up a dog and uh and i saw some women um practicing you know shooting and just outside yeah out out in the uh range
but um i it reminded me of uh you know i was listening to a talk show the other day
and and heard that the majority of the accidents that happen or the shooting that happens happens right in the home with somebody that you know
misuse of a gun
yeah
yeah
a lot of that happened
yeah
i don't i don't really see why the n r a
would oppose i guess it's because they you know they don't want any any kind of uh of government restrictions on
then it's a lot easier to just keep going from there
is that your phone or mine
yeah
you must have had a cordless hello
hello
oh
hello you still there
uh so where do you stand on gun control
uh_huh
i'm i'm more in favor of of uh restricting them
but uh as far as getting a number
it's a little hard
no
cause people like to hunt and and you know in some cases i think it's it's a good uh i mean it's a valid reason to have one for defense although you know the statistics about uh accidents uh it's kind of uh [worrisome] i mean i wouldn't i know i don't like the idea of having guns around a lot because they're mostly used
i mean to they cause a lot of they there are a lot of accidents because of them being so handy
uh_huh
i'm not sure
huh
no
um
um
no
uh_huh
yeah
it it's kind of brutal oh yeah
no
i've i've actually done that with a friend of mine with his gun uh
and he
no
no
if i have one handy though then if i'm or i can imagine somebody being outraged at something and saying uh i just i want to go for the gun
i know where it is it's easy
and then pulling the trigger is so easy that uh well
huh
right
uh_huh
right
right
so in massachusetts they uh they have uh uh mostly just some rolling hills
so there isn't really much uh_huh
all right uh  
i i would like to talk about just briefly what happened over there in saudi arabia in the political context  
i think it's uh refreshing to see the uh the support that the president got from the american people  
right  
right  
um  
yes  
that's right  
really  
right  
yeah  
that's great um  
if if you remember the vote in the congress to [authorize] war if necessary was actually pretty close  
and if if my memory serves me right i believe a majority of democrats may even have opposed it  
it it was  
that's right  
yeah  
especially the ones that came out and said oh come on guys let's talk about this little while longer  
i mean how many years are we going to wait  
and and what what do you do with the people that are over there in the mean time  
no doubt  
i think so too  
well they were   and in fact they were so well dug in that uh when we sent our tanks around behind them they couldn't get turned around in time  
well had had we done a [frontal] assault it probably would have worked more to his favor  
um interesting  
well baker is really not very much pro israel  
and did you know john [sununu] is uh half arab  
yeah  
right  
in in fact when he was governor of new hampshire i believe  
okay  
i believe he was the only one of fifty governors that voted against some kind of resolution of support for israel a few years back  
and uh now he is a conservative  
but he is not a conservative that favors israel  
and that that concerns me greatly  
well they didn't have much choice  
they could either fight or die  
it is a positive thing um  
however uh every time an organization such as the p l o says well we'll see if we can work with israel then uh they get embarrassed some every few months by documents that reveal that their ultimate purpose is to totally eliminate them  
and so you you basically have uh [mutually] exclusive interests  
either israel is going to [occupy] the area  
or the arabs are going to [occupy] the area  
and i'm just not sure that that there's going to be any easy permanent solution  
exactly  
it is  
yeah  
i i [commend] israel for their restraint in not responding to the [scud] attacks  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
no  
may not  
well it's been fun i enjoyed talking with you  
you never know  
bye bye  
yeah  
it we i i read an interesting article in the paper that discussed uh that uh  
seemed that every other time a president tried to get support for an action like uh uh president carter and his thing with the the [hostage] crisis   and he always did it through [rhetoric]  
and this time president bush did it through action  
and he   he drove policy by the course he took and almost forced public support  
or uh i mean he left almost no alternative  
and and it was very interesting how he did it  
and uh i mean i'm i'm an air force officer  
so it uh   it was interesting for me uh you know  
i'd certainly uh  
i i mean i think it's great that all the support  
i have uh friends of mine from the air  
i'm i'm an engineer and work in the [rolm] laboratory  
but other guys here on base  
this is a b fifty two base where i work  
so   we had about a thousand people gone from the base that went over there  
and they're getting a tremendous amount of support out of it  
yes  
it was  
yeah  
i'm i don't know the exact figure  
but i i would imagine that because of the how close the the vote was i'm uh i mean almost certainly would have to be  
just based on the sheer numbers of uh the disparity of excuse me democrats and republicans in congress he'd think that it would have to have been um  
and uh i i  
gosh this uh this whole thing now with all the uh all the political cartoons on the democrats and how they're uh uh   they're in in a sad way for ninety two now in terms of the presidential election anyway  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
i think that was  
all those factors played a part in you know uh the  
everyone was discussing whether we should uh wait longer  
but i i i know that there's a lot of reasons to wait longer  
but i think we were genuinely concerned about how their military capability  
and we uh i think we over [estimated] it  
but still   we were really highly concerned about it  
and that we were worried that they were getting dug in  
and uh  
yeah  
right  
they couldn't yeah they couldn't  
yeah  
it's true  
they  
saddam thought he had the whole thing uh figured out to to which way we were coming and which what what our [doctrine] was that uh  
that's right  
that's true  
that's interesting  
i think uh this political situation over there now is uh uh  
it'll be interesting to see what comes out of it whether the this opposition will uh uh  
today the [turks] uh agreed to support the kurds which is something they've never done before  
and uh   and uh this  
and the israelis uh and not the israelis but the arabs all of a sudden are uh are [cheering] for baker on his drive for to [reconcile] relations with the israelis  
so it's like  
yeah  
i  
no uh  
i i think i did hear that at one time a long time ago  
because i used to live in uh massachusetts  
but uh  
yeah  
new hampshire  
oh my gosh  
uh  
well i don't  
yeah  
i'd certainly uh support israel in in their their policy that in defending themselves and in uh in their handling of their foreign policy  
i think i think the stand they have or or the way the command respect i i support that  
i think that is a a positive thing for them after um uh thousands of years  
they have to uh they  
i think they in  
when they became a country they more than or more or less decided they weren't going to take it anymore  
and uh  
yeah  
exactly exactly  
and uh um so gee  
i lost my train of thought here  
but uh um so okay  
so i can't say whether that that i'm pro israel or anti israel  
i mean i'd like to see them resolve something in that situation and get some stability in the region  
and looks uh that the joining of forces for this uh uh desert shield and desert storm thing ended up being a positive thing  
right  
yeah  
somebody's going to  
and i think that's the problem the p l o has is that when they whenever one group of them decides that they're going to negotiate or they're going to do something they're going to try to make some peace but uh the end result is that they there so many factions of them and uh some more violent than others some with a certain agenda different than the others or they split  
they end up being becoming [divisive] themselves  
uh i  
it's interesting  
i i'm i'm looking forward to seeing what happens over there in the next couple of months  
but uh that's  
yeah  
i know  
that that is almost i mean that's absolutely [unprecedented]  
that was   an an incredible foreign policy coup on the part of the president and the state department  
and that i mean that's never happened before  
and i don't know if it will ever happen again  
but  
yeah  
okay uh  
i guess uh well maybe the computer will pair us up together another time  
all right  
bye bye  
well actually i think it's good  
i i i hope that we uh uh get a chance to uh promote peace out there uh because i think without peace we're not going to get stable oil prices  
and and uh i'd i'd really like to see stability in that area because i'm always afraid that's where another big war is going to start not that desert storm was a small one  
i saw um just recently where uh uh the u s is supposedly going to be uh putting pressure on all the you know the israelis supposedly to come to a bargaining table to  
actually i heard that the israelis were even at least mentioned about giving up some of the [golan] heights  
yeah  
okay  
well uh i guess it's one of those things that uh if it's going to really promote a lasting peace if there is not going to be a peace  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
do you think the u s is going to wind up keeping uh military bases over there  
i i haven't heard that  
i watch c n n every once in a while  
but i i haven't specifically heard anything about that  
what i thought was interesting is that uh apparently the formal cease fire has not actually been signed yet  
and uh then i guess there's still the possibility that uh hostilities with uh u s troops could still break out  
yeah  
do you have relatives over in israel  
oh really  
yeah  
do you uh  
does she ever want to go back to syria  
oh okay  
no  
no  
do you ever want to go over to israel  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
well you know  
do you have a lot of kosher foods there at your house  
yeah  
no  
[kish] [ki's] or [knishes]  
oh  
i got you  
still get your passover [matzi] and all that  
right  
oh really  
i dated uh i dated a nice jewish girl for many years up in chicago  
and i was the only [goyim] at at all the seder dinners and everything  
and i used to have to go with rolls of not [pocketful] of change to buy all this bread the kids would see me  
not not   not uh  
just just enough to get by  
okay  
oh  
wow  
oh really  
yeah  
well they had the  
matter of fact i just watched charles [heston] this uh this weekend in the ten [commandments]  
did you  
well that's  
to me it's really um  
i guess i guess i can intellectually kind of come to grips with all of that  
but you know emotionally i have a real difficult time believing that uh that that people that believe in god and love not war and to forgive can't get together  
you know i  
i know that the problems are so deep  
but i mean even within the [muslim] uh [religions] different [sects] they can't get together  
yeah  
or the uh you know the catholics and the [protestants] up in ireland  
you know i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it sounds like a it sounds like a john [lennon] uh type  
so uh what do you think about our involvement in the middle east  
yeah  
well yeah  
that's probably true  
i i suspect that if any world war is coming at this point in time they're going to come from there uh i would think anyway  
just seems to be that that's the most unstable part of the world as far as i can tell  
really  
that would be interesting because i am actually um um i'm i'm i'm jewish  
and i'm actually sort of not not not really a [zionist] per se you know  
but i have a um i have a lot of friends you know who are sort of adamant you know israel  
it's his right  
and do whatever they want  
and i think they've been sort of hard nosed about the entire thing  
and you know in some sense the moderates may be right  
they may you know may be better if they give up just a little bit to settle things down  
right  
then then then then is it worth it at all  
i mean i could the way  
i mean the only way to think about it is well they won you know  
they sort of took over the um  
they're one of the only countries in history that has been told that they have to give back what they took in a war which they didn't start basically  
so  
so i don't i don't know how to i don't i don't know what to do about it  
but i think that that you know in general the region is really in bad shape  
um probably oh  
isn't isn't there a plan now to make a command center there or something  
i just heard something about moving recently about moving um  
there there there's some central command post in tampa i think that they now want to move to somewhere in the middle east  
actually there was um a small country or small city i think or even not actually in saudi arabia or anything but a little bit off to the um east of it i think  
and i  
they want to keep something over there so that they don't have to um  
i guess it's i guess it's sort of so they don't have to move troops out so quickly or something  
i'm not quite sure exactly why they want to do it  
but they want to keep some sort of central command post there  
that's true  
yeah  
that's  
they claim that's why we're still there  
i mean you know why only  
you note it's only only a small number of people have actually come back yet  
but i think that's actually the [scariest] part because when in the way what what's happening in iraq right now you know in itself it being so crazy there  
i have no idea  
i mean what do you know  
just to imagine that one day they're just going to turn around and someone is going to say we don't like you and start attacking again  
and it's going to be worse  
i don't know um  
no  
i don't  
i i i i have some friends in israel  
and [coincidently] actually my wife is syrian um  
yeah  
so i am  
we are sort of we are the middle east peace talks at home um  
and uh pardon me i'm just sort of putting away some things from dinner now   in the background  
but we um we  
she has sort of friends and family in saudi arabia who are some friends in saudi arabia  
and um i have some friends in israel  
and we we talk a bit about it  
but we try and keep it out of the home life  
no  
she was she is actually um  
i think it's um for her not really relevant because she is second generation american actually  
her parents who were born here would like to go see it though i think  
they would like to go to syria  
but they recognize that [syria's] not the place that one wants to visit   right about now  
you know something about the place makes it not not quite enjoyable  
yeah  
i i've actually been there  
i was there a couple of years ago when it wasn't you know sort of dangerous to be out there i guess  
and i do i do like it actually  
i would never live there  
i think i'm too [americanized] and um sort of have too much you know too much invested in sort of the easy life  
but i do like the food   if that so if that if that amounts for anything  
yeah  
actually my house is kosher  
but it turns out that one of the strangest things about about israel is that um most folks don't realize that for all the food people think of as sort of you know jewish food and so forth  
um and you know um in general it really isn't the food that is eaten in israel  
so you typically think of it like bagels  
right you know  
bagels and [lox]  
turns out you don't you don't you don't really find bagels in israel  
what you find is sort of middle eastern foods  
the same foods that you find in um syria and egypt and everything else  
have you ever had those  
oh [knishes]  
no  
you don't you don't see a lot of  
that's basically eastern european jewish food  
it's it's very different  
i was actually very amazed when i sort of figured out for myself that everything i grew up with really wasn't israeli  
it was more jewish you know  
it it it is very strange  
that that starts tomorrow night  
that's what i'm making  
that's what i'm doing now  
i'm making dinner  
bought up all the bread from  
that's good  
well you've you've you've really got a handle on this stuff i've noticed  
got the vocabulary down and everything  
that that that makes you real good  
yeah  
we um we actually we have the reverse situation  
turned out that um um most of my friends aren't jewish  
and and my wife's not  
but i um i sort of you know do a lot of these things  
so so that um  
seder our first seder is tomorrow night  
and this is a rare exception  
there are going to be sixteen people at my house tomorrow night which  
and five of them will be jewish  
two two years ago we had a seder  
we had sixteen people each night  
sixteen is the magic number for us  
and i was the only [jew] both nights  
so which to me is wonderful because it means that people who never would get to see this um so get to see it  
and my view is passover is should sort of be  
in in in in my mind passover is sort of a generic holiday anyway because it it sort of [predates] christ  
so  
yeah  
i caught the end of that  
yeah  
every year i try and catch that  
but yeah  
that's what always amazes me actually is that um is that you know  
my wife and i always sort of bring this up about her being syrian you know and my being jewish you know  
we look alike  
we act alike  
we sound alike  
well not totally alike  
but you know um um it's amazing to think that people in the middle east sort of all hate each other  
right  
right  
that's that's actually the part that that that i find really strange  
i mean i i i sort of understand somewhat  
i mean i i  
knowing the history i understand that the hatred of the muslims for you know the israelis or whatever  
and i can sort of handle that  
and but i sort of think about the muslims sort of running around have [jihad] against themselves  
you know i mean and and that seems really weird  
right  
exactly  
same same thing  
i don't  
i'll i'll never understand it  
my view is look what did you ever do to me  
didn't hurt me at at at the moment  
so um and and and i i don't know  
there's a there's something about  
there's a poem somewhere  
i don't know if you've ever seen it or not  
but everything i ever wanted to know i learned in kindergarten  
in this  
and it talks about how you know if we could just all get you know  
when we were young everything was great because we all went to class together  
and in the you know  
we all had snack time together  
and then we all took naps  
and we all held hands and [hugged] you know  
and and and that's what kindergarten was like  
and wouldn't it be nice if if we could solve all our problems by just sort of getting together and everyone in the world sat down and took a nap together  
woke up and had snack time you know and then [hugged] each other as we left  
yeah  
i wonder if he secretly did that  
well i haven't uh you know  
when the war was on i watched c n n and uh nightline   pretty regularly and read the paper and all  
but when uh  
lately like the last week or two i guess with easter   and spring break with the kids i um i hadn't been thinking much about the middle east and what's going on over there  
have you been keeping up  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
start up  
there's no official document signed or anything  
well i um  
when the when the crisis began last august i began to think well i i couldn't remember things that i had studied in the past in school and all  
so i got out like my [encyclopedias] and tried to read about the history  
and it was really what i felt was kind of cynical  
because it  
there just hasn't been any peace over there ever   in thousands of years   of history  
yeah  
that's right  
and it just it's just not people  
they  
and it's not uh you know  
there isn't any real arab coalition because they do fight among themselves  
and they fight with each other  
and they have such hatred for uh israel  
and  
oh yeah  
um   oh no  
and got it over with  
well i just  
there's just no way for us to be involved over there and hope that there will be much peace  
and um with  
and that i'm afraid that we would have to stay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
well i just uh  
i'm not interested in keeping big military over there and having to go and call the shots like you say  
and i just would prefer that i mean sometimes we've said let's keep we're not interested in what other countries do  
and then other times we jump in and do things  
and while i'm glad that they  
uh i  
it was important [demilitarize] that area because of all the build up [armaments]  
i don't  
i hope we don't try to keep uh in there and try to keep our fingers in the pot and try to   stay over there  
because we just don't want to send our people there and make them stay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i noticed that  
well i don't think there's much hope for a lasting peace over there like they   expect  
yeah  
no  
no  
well i guess i better go  
i have a repairman just came   for my refrigerator  
but  
yeah  
well i enjoyed the topic  
i hope you have a good day  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
well uh just really the last couple of days since this uh the u n debate or whatever you want to call it that uh voted on whether there was going to be a cease fire  
i guess you know the thing really isn't over  
they uh they had uh kind of uh i don't know if you call it [standout] or whatever  
but anyway they stopped and waited to see if iraq would accept a permanent cease fire situation though  
as i understand it from the iraqi point of view this current cease fire thing that the u n uh had set up you know the iraqis are probably not going to go for at all   unless they're just absolutely forced to  
so i guess from what i understand the thing could just   it could just they could take off at any moment without uh you know you know any local you know congressional effort or anything else because you know it's not really settled yet  
not yet  
not yet at all  
uh_huh  
no  
yeah  
i don't know   why they expect it's going to start this week you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the uh the thing that's kind of interesting about this  
my sons in the air force  
and uh he came within a quarter of an inch of going uh to saudi  
he ended up in korea instead and because of the way they split a transportation group out in lubbock  
so he ended up going to korea  
and his buddies ended up going to saudi  
well he's still in korea and his buddies home now  
he he almost wishes that that he could have gone home  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the thing uh the other thing too when this all started if you you know if you did much reading on the thing you know kuwait the country of kuwait was just you know somebody's uh  
you go back to world war i when the uh [ottoman] empire broke up   and the british and the french   and the yeah the british and the french mostly decided to [carve] up that part of the world and call part of it [persia]   and part of it iraq and part of it something else you know  
and they they split things along um geographical lines but they didn't take any kind of consideration into uh social or cultural things at all  
so the country of   of kuwait really doesn't make just a whole lot of sense except that it is an [excepted] place you know  
it's like any other country you know  
for whatever reason it's it's actually there  
well iraq has had uh designs on that place since nineteen twenty two  
so you know it wasn't like something that just suddenly popped up  
and it's just that this was an excuse you know to make some noise  
now something that i read in the paper the other day that i thought was kind of interesting was that the arab uh uh their version or vision or whatever the united states now is somewhat changed in that we won you know  
now now we are a uh a legitimate player   in the game over there you know  
the the  
i don't think we can really understand their attitude because there cultures are just so much different  
but uh we are now a legitimate player in the in the in the game because we came in with a certain amount of force and we you know we defeated  
you know iran couldn't do it in seven years  
and we went in and did in seven days what iran couldn't do in seven years you know  
so  
that kind of ups our stock in there just a little bit  
it makes us more legitimate  
so now what they're saying is that well since we won whatever we say goes because it's uh a kind of a might make strike sort of attitude about it  
and you know we've got the power   which is why for centuries or hundreds of years the british and the french had so much influence in there  
because they'd go in and they'd win something  
and then and then they could call the shots for the you know period of time until the next strong man came up and you know   and caused problems  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um   yeah  
that's that's the uh that's that's the big thing you know  
we still got a little bit of the old you know vietnam um problem you know in the back of our minds  
we   we got this  
we're we're used to wars where you can get in do the job and get out  
vietnam we never did get out you know never did get the job done because they were too ham strung  
uh this thing  
they they gave the guys uh the power and the material and the told them to go do it and they did it you know   got in and got out  
i'm not sure  
the the big fuss that we're going to see now for the next few weeks i would think is uh you know the uh the business with the uh the [shiites] of all people you know in the southern part of the country and also the kurds  
because these people evidently are you know being killed off by the thousands  
and whether the the united nations  
i don't think the u s will do it on their own  
but whether the united nations comes around and says hey wait a minute we know this thing isn't uh all that much over we've got to go back in there and and be sure that this large population isn't just wiped out  
which is seems to be exactly what's happening right at the moment  
but um you know  
oh well   no  
no  
there there never will be  
i mean uh uh the only way that you're going to have peace over there if if we determine that we want to go in and wipe out every last one of them  
you know until we make a decision to do that there won't be peace but i don't think we want to make that decision either  
so that's that's a little rough you know  
we're not we're not quite up to that sort of thing  
so  
oh  
oh well that's   that's fun  
you too  
bye bye  
okay um  
the u s involvement in there then i guess even though  
well it is over  
but i don't think we're out of there by any means  
and uh i wonder are we going to set up you know peace keeping type forces for long term  
you know is that something we should do or shouldn't do  
i don't know  
i think that's true because of all the support that came through  
the other thing that i think is good for like american businesses are to be involved is the the reports that i hear back  
and of course on the news i try to listen and also read between the lines you know  
but they said that because the americans you know took such a proactive stance involvement in the war that  
like so much of the business and the rebuilding in kuwait and things like that will go to american businesses where as before they may be dealt with japanese firms or other people  
they said even though the japanese were involved monetarily uh they still  
like the first first priority ought to go to american businesses which i guess will be good you know which will be good for our economy  
but i you know  
boy  
don't you know  
i mean we don't seem to slow down even when there is a crisis  
but  
i imagine  
your oil companies they may see   probably the first big rise in business they have seen in years  
uh_huh  
i do too  
yeah  
but look at their war  
that was his whole war  
is is  
i'm not satisfied with what iraq has  
i want what everybody has  
and and you're right  
it's like you see two little pre school kids fighting over a toy you know  
i i am a little concerned about you know  
i know they are putting president bush right now in an awkward position concerning the   the [treaty] over there right now  
you know what am i trying to say  
well supporting the kurds  
but uh you know the cease fire  
i'm trying to say another because he yeah   you know because he he wants them to [uphold] their end of the deal as far as the cease fire  
but at the same time he's not wanting to go in and say okay i'm going to fight your war for you which which i think is right  
you know if it's an internal thing i don't think we can walk in and say gee i think you're right and you're wrong you know  
we're not the judge and jury  
uh but i know that that's causing him a little bit of [unpopularity] with the people over there because they feel like gee you told us   to stand up against him but you're not helping  
so i think he's in a pretty awkward position now  
and i i think we ought to help you know  
yeah  
supply arms and support them if they need help  
but i don't think we ought to be over there fighting it for them  
and and so i think he's done good on that stance  
yeah  
boy  
i would say  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
you know they'd advertised and said in the news and said he had the fifth largest army  
well he may have  
but you  
well not any more  
but you have to have [loyalty]  
you have to have people who believe in your cause  
you know i know they tried to turn it into a holy war because to them that is what's honorable you know   if you die in a holy cause  
but i think they are smart enough   to see there's nothing holy about it  
we just want to go in and took it  
you know  
sure  
sure  
uh  
well i hope that's true  
i would think so  
i would think that you know  
i guess in the back of my mind i think like maybe the israeli [massad] probably has ideas of going in and huh  
you know i thought they uh showed a tremendous restraint in their reactions towards everything  
but i don't believe for a minute that that means that they don't have ideas and plans of their own  
but i do agree with you  
i think president bush handled it all politically very smart you know giving the support of of the other arabs and other nations in the world  
and i think that's how you have to go into something like that  
and don't you feel  
that's right  
and don't you think that long term that's been a big boost for the united nations  
i mean the united nations been there for years but all of a sudden  
yeah  
there are some teeth behind it  
and the fact that when they have sanctions and we support things like this it means something  
and i think that's good for the strength of the united nations  
yeah  
and rebuild from nothing  
yes  
yeah  
that's true  
right  
they supported it  
that is right  
yeah  
they did ask that they build up israel and kuwait  
and i think they should have to  
they lost  
well that's true  
well i don't think iran is under the same type of [madman] type leadership  
but there's always the possibility i guess  
i think so  
i think the person who really may be at this time has a hard road to tow is [jordan's] king hussein because he really kind of   really tried to kind of [straddle] the fence  
you know he wasn't necessarily for iraq  
but at the same time he didn't feel like everybody ought to be going against iraq  
yeah  
right  
no  
i know  
isn't that amazing the way that they will find their cause  
no matter what situation they see they're going to find their cause whether it truly exists or not  
i know  
that's true  
but see you are also getting back to the ages old problem of arab israeli conflict   as far as [personalties] and who is the selected one of god  
and theirs tie so much to their religion  
so very different things than what we face  
let's talk about the middle east situation  
now that's it's all over with you know  
i don't know  
i understand that the u s is talking about leaving more of its planes and things over there  
uh i guess they uh they're anti u s in that region  
and now they're you know  
like syria and egypt you know had some pressure against the u s  
but now they now they wouldn't allow us to have a base in that region  
but now i think they are [rethinking] that  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
they get so much of our money from oil anyway  
no  
no  
yeah  
i think that's a nice [gesture] on the kuwaiti government part to do that  
and a few people i guess will make a few people pretty wealthy in construction and so forth  
right  
go over there and rebuild all those  
i think it's such a shame that the iraqis had to just go destroy everything  
i just  
i mean what's what good is that  
if i can't have it you can't have it you know  
that sounds like something a little kid would do you know  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the   the deal with the uh supporting the kurds  
right  
right  
the cease fire  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
to help out  
yeah  
maybe supply some arms or something  
yeah  
i think bush handled has handled this whole situation quite well  
he stood up to to the bully and   didn't back down  
and uh and uh saddam hussein [miscalculated] all along   thinking that he wouldn't commit u s lives and and forces and and monies to just to [liberate] a little country  
and uh then he [underestimated] his ability to to wage a war with us  
i mean one thing when we all came over there and said okay here we are get out and he said no i can i can win a war with you guys  
and that was a horrible [miscalculation]  
not any more  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
saddam hussein is not a religious person  
but he uses it   when he sees it to his advantage  
and uh and i think the people were smart enough to realize that  
and i think they're afraid of him is what they are  
the population is afraid to speak out against him  
and i don't think he's going to be there too much longer  
someone is going to [assassinate] him you know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
right  
right  
i've heard reports that president bush was [staking] his future on this uh this war and that setting a precedent saying that this league of nations will always combine against [bullies] and to stop this kind of stuff in the world  
any would be bully would think twice if he knew that you know  
there's this united nations or world government or whatever they keep talking about that the whole world will deal with you  
and you can't you just can't do it and get away with it you know hoping that you know  
because it's a world thing  
and the nations will combine against you  
and you can't you know you can't just do this  
oh yeah  
had no had no teeth  
right  
people  
i guess i feel sorry for just the average you know iraqi   who has had to go through all of this and the suffering i'm sure with no water   no electricity no sanitation  
must be terrible living conditions must be terrible  
and it's not getting any better  
the sanctions are still on  
you know except for a few medical supplies they are allowing through now and then [powdered] milk i guess for babies and things  
and until they  
i guess yesterday they came out with this these rules i guess or whatever   for a permanent permanent cease fire  
and the kuwaitis said we don't want to have to repay israel for all the bombing that we did that was in there you know  
but that's only fair  
yeah  
yeah  
it's going to be really tough for them to swallow  
but we don't want a kuwait there that's also you know just has no power at all  
and that that you know  
because iran still isn't too friendly with them  
and we don't want you know to be [stabilized] to the point where iran will say now is our chance you know to go in and wipe them out  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
since [khomeini] died over there things have gotten a little more [normalized]  
not quite as radical a stance more moderates are in power now  
yeah  
put in the middle  
and yet so many of the citizens are the uh the lebanese   who were hoping this would evolve into a war against israel   and uh trying to connect with israel all that time  
and there really was no connection at all  
and uh but boy those lebanese in jordan they were saying you know this whole war is [israel's] fault because israel told the united states to attack iran  
it was like it was like you know israel controls our government  
right  
but one thing i did learn was how deep the the hatred runs toward israel by a lot of countries  
they just hate  
i mean anyway they can you know they can see to connect into something and hate it more  
i mean they just  
i understand most of the land is now israelis  
they bought   and actually purchased it and then and then moved in and started a country  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
and they both have holy sanctions  
well what do you think about it  
no  
i don't either  
i don't think it's going to change very much  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know the funny thing i find about american opinion is that when we have gone in to [destabilize] a government before the american public goes crazy  
and now the fact that we're not interfering with the internal rebellion in in iraq they're going crazy  
you know i mean you can't please them one way or the other  
you know and i and i think that i i agree with you  
this is exactly the right course  
i mean that's an internal problem to iraq  
it has nothing to do with us  
and until he starts doing something so [inhumane] that the u n gets involved then it's nobody's business  
um  
all the time  
i mean yeah  
i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
and it's certainly and it's certainly been going on over there for hundreds of years  
and it's going to continue  
as long as you have so many diverse groups that are that are [vying] for power it's going to happen all the time  
i mean the kurds have tried it before  
they've gotten their butts kicked  
and this is just another time that it's happening  
you know they'll [regroup] out in the mountains  
and they'll try it again in a couple of years  
sure  
and and and i don't have any doubt that through some back channels that we encouraged it   you know  
but i'm not real sure that we promised them anything  
i  
that would have been stupid  
and and i don't think we did it  
everything else we handled in this seemed to be perfectly right  
i don't think they would have done that  
but it just it it really doesn't make any difference  
this is just a a another chapter in middle eastern history  
oh sure  
i mean the the british occupied the place  
the french occupied it  
we've done it  
it it's happened so many times  
this is this is really nothing special uh  
that's right  
it's it's mostly religious anyway  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
well i i i think one of the big problems  
i mean looking at it from the the american public's [standpoints] they don't understand the middle [easterners]  
they don't understand what  
i mean their politics really isn't politics  
it's religion [couched] as politics  
and there's a big difference  
you know uh we sit there  
and and we think that they think the way we think  
and that's a big mistake   because they don't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's it a lot of the time  
i i was stationed in in turkey for for a year and a half  
and it it was tough   understanding those folks  
you know it they they're they're so completely different culturally and socially and   and religiously  
it's just it was very strange  
it was very interesting  
now i  
shoot i i think some of these people that they claim as middle eastern experts don't don't have a clue sometimes  
you know they they sit there and and read their books and then [proclaim] themselves an expert  
well i'm not real sure that's that's appropriate  
no  
well i sort  
that sort of goes to my pet peeve about the education system in this country too  
and we make experts by reading books  
you know and the japanese and the germans and everybody else make experts by doing  
yeah  
yeah  
i uh i i guess you work for t i  
so you guys are well aware of the problems with the japanese markets and everything else  
yeah  
it's it's like our car industry  
the only reason our car industry hasn't gone down the tubes is because the japanese you know came into it and helped   us out  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and until we until we start changing our educational system i mean we're we're going to be  
we're we've already been [overtaken]  
but it's going to get even worse later  
i mean looks who's looks who's getting the engineering degrees and the the math and the science and everything  
it's not us  
you know we we've got folks running around here who get who get degrees in basket [weaving] and   you know underwater psychology   or some some ridiculous stuff like that  
and and where are the engineers coming from  
yeah  
exactly  
my uh my roommate is a uh  
he's getting his doctorate in industrial  
well it's not industrial engineering  
it's human factors  
his degree was in uh industrial engineering  
uh and he's from the philippines  
and the only reason he came here was because the education is so much better for those who will go after it  
he has no intention of going back to the philippines because there's no jobs  
you know uh but i i see it all too often  
i mean we've got loads of foreign students  
and they're coming here going after the hard degrees  
and then they're going back to korea and japan   and hong kong and everywhere else  
and they're applying it there  
and i don't know  
it's to me it's amazing  
i don't know what we're going to do as a country  
we're we're going to become dependent on these other folks sooner or later  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you  
i don't i don't think there can be anymore long range planning  
i think it it's it's sticking your finger in the holes in the [dike]  
you know it oh here's a crisis  
well let's plug it up  
i don't know  
i don't know what the answer is  
it's far beyond me  
yeah  
all we can do is keep [plugging]  
you know i i wonder  
i i read in the paper just last week i b m's [unveiling] their new laptop computer  
well at a price tag of six thousand bucks i don't know if they're going to have a whole lot of [takers]  

now i have the i have the i b m p s two  
but i'm sorry i got it  
it's slow  
it's uh there are many better machines on the market right now   for a  
the only reason i got it is because i got it through an educational purchase plan   through the school  
and i saved forty eight percent  
so i said yeah if i can have an i b m for forty eight percent discount i'll take it  
but up to that point i had i had always said i would never have one because i wouldn't pay that kind of money for their name  
but  
now you watch  
just sure as anything the japanese are going to come out with a laptop at half the price   with more stuff on it  
uh_huh  
it's already outdated  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i can imagine  
i uh years ago i remember when i had a t i ninety nine   put all the money into the expansion box and all this that and the other  
and uh things just kept changing so much  
and i kept getting rid of them  
and i finally said well you can't do this  
you've got to buy something and stick with it  
so i   so i just  
at an opportune time i got one that that suited my needs  
and i've just stuck with it  
the only thing i've done to it is just add a uh add a mouse and a hard drive  
and that's all i plan to do  
of course i'm limited on memory now because i've got the low line  
i got the model twenty five  
so i'm stuck with six forty  
but i'm not a power user  
so it doesn't matter  
yeah  
yeah  
now my [roomie] on the other hand he is a power user  
he's he's looking now to get rid of his  
he's got a three eighty six and wants to get a four eighty six   you know this kind of stuff  
well um most of the stuff up until now in the recent months i i i don't have any problem with  
uh i mean it's  
you know it  
no  
i agree with that as as far as the as far as the mess that's developing as a result um you know  
as a country the united states uh  
i think our hands are tied   as far as as as any further involvement   until the u n sanctions it  
in fact it really was to begin with  
and uh i just i heard a comment on the radio this morning that uh you know it it gets to a point where uh if enough people are are going to be [slaughtered] over there over the the the internal problems um somebody may step in again  
but uh i really think it's it's a u n issue   at that point because it is internal  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
absolutely right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
i mean these these types of internal things go on all over the world all the time  
some of them have been going on for for tens of years   if if i understand it right in places like the [sudan] and  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
that's absolutely right  
yeah  
that's that's absolutely right  
yeah  
it was just you know it was  
it's a very opportune moment for them to try  
you know you  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
and you know and it there are many of them  
there's no doubt about it  
uh_huh  
well and and and so many of the so many of the conflicts um really don't have a basis in in uh politics or or human rights or anything like that  
it   it's it's religious based  
and uh you know by by self [proclamation] this is a holy war  
and it is right  
and then uh we we go on from there  
and  
yeah  
it it's it's a mess  
it it's  
there's no doubt about it  
and uh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
you bet  
you bet  
well yeah  
because there's no uh you know there's there's there's a complete different set of values  
um there's there's different value placed on human life   and uh right down the list you know possessions and and everything else  
and uh what's right is wrong and what's wrong is right in some cases  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i believe it  
yeah  
yeah  
i can i can i can believe that  
yeah  
i i don't claim to have an in depth understanding by any means  
but uh  
that's probably true  
that's probably true  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
that's that's uh  
a a little bit of background study has never made an expert in any field  
but uh  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
absolutely  
that's right yes  
right  
right  
that's an everyday occurrence  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i agree  
yeah  
it's it's uh there there is there is it's an overall problem in in in this country understanding uh foreign cultures   or even accepting them  
and uh it it it bites us over and over  
again the the the  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
uh well they're they're coming from various places  
and a lot of them are going back there  
that's  
okay  
i see  
yeah  
right  
sure  
okay  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
that's right  
yeah  
you know every every  
the the country's got a problem with uh with [quarterly] reports and annual statements and things like that  
and the long long range views are are just kind of become a thing of the past  
and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's for sure  
that's that's the way things have gotten  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
absolutely  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
that's right  
that's absolutely right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the the  
unfortunately the way the the way the high tech market goes by the time you can get get something in your hands  
um  
it it's it's obsolete  
and uh   we're we we fight that battle every day here at work  
and uh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
okay  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
well that that's that's the key you know whatever works for you  
and uh if it does the job then that's that's what you need  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it doesn't matter to me  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well how did they feel about the uh the united states intervening with patriot missiles  
did did they  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i live in san antonio  
and fifty percent of the population is minority  
uh_huh  
that's the [barrios]  
but it's it's i don't think it's any different of a problem than any other major city  
it's just hispanics here instead of blacks  
i grew up outside of houston  
and i don't think uh as far as gang violence and things i don't think it's any worse here than in houston  
houston is not at all  
yes  
there's quite a bit of crime  
uh_huh  
huh  
i think it's unfortunate uh as far as the kurds are concerned  
it  
i  
yeah  
yeah  
we can't get involved in their civil war um unfortunately  
but we've kind of driven these people out  
sure  
well i think the war ended too soon  
yeah  
we we didn't damage enough of their arsenal  
we damaged most of it  
but we we should have gotten made sure we got everything  
unfortunately though the the original goal of the mission was to drive them out of kuwait  
and once that was accomplished it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i just have a feeling that the military involvement isn't over yet that i i still feel like there's more to come  
i don't think this whole issue is settled as far as we're concerned  
they've got sixty or so of [iraq's] planes  
uh_huh  
there are some kurds living in iran  
i was real surprised that israel stayed out of it as as much as they did  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it and from from what i can tell if they had gotten into it it would have started a whole new war  
well this is a good subject isn't it  
it's it's something that you can really talk about  
um i don't know what we're going to do about it  
but   but it's certainly something that has a lot of things to talk about  
um you know when they say the middle east   it's such a big area  
and there's so many different problems there  
uh what do you want to concentrate on  
well uh i'll tell you something  
um i i have a sister in law from israel  
and and they're really quite uh arrogant about it all  
they they believe that they they belong there  
and they've belonged there forever  
and the palestinians and the arabs are uh more or less  
they they consider them second class  
so they're really quite arrogant about it  
i don't uh i don't know if that contributes to the problem  
oh uh i'm i'm sure this is the one time that the israelis are really happy to have their big brothers the americans  
but i didn't really talk about that with her  
she um um my sister in law now lives in um switzerland  
but um when they were living in israel it was it was the the palestinians they they come in an  
and they're they're nothing but really servants for them  
and they really treat them like second class citizens  
they they don't really want them around  
but they like them around because they do all the menial labor and such  
but they they really do  
they look down on them  
and i don't know being  
i i live in uh vermont  
and being up here we pretty much treat everybody you know as someone that has merit even if they're poor or if they're hispanic or if they're black  
we give everybody pretty much the benefit of a doubt because we don't see all the crime and all the hurt in the big cities you know  
if i lived in washington d c i think i'd have a different attitude about black people  
because i've heard that it it the they're terrible you know  
it's just like it's a dog eat dog world  
and here you know all all my black friends are professionals  
and they're they don't you know they don't go out and abuse drugs  
and they they send their kids to school  
and they they they uh you know really encourage them to go to college and stuff  
so it's just a different world  
oh um i talked to someone about san antonio  
and um they said that they they have you have quite the problem with uh the [ghettos]  
i don't know  
do they call it the [barrio] down there  
yeah  
but i heard that san antonio unlike like like a city like san diego it it just has a really bad problem  
yeah  
like say houston  
now i would now me not even knowing anything about houston i would think that it's a pretty calm city  
no huh  
there's a lot of crime  
oh my um  
yeah  
like i we're so protected up here  
it's it's really strange  
i mean our red light district i mean uh you could go walking around down there and pretty much not fear for your life you know  
and we're just so protected  
but it's it's over in the mid east especially israel it's just like israelis have a like a [totalitarian] system when it comes to the palestinians  
you know the israelis can do anything they want  
but when it comes to palestinians if they're out in the street at night it's it's really looked on as odd  
um usually they're they're bussed in to the the um jewish neighborhoods and the jewish cities  
and then at night they're bussed out to the occupied territories  
so they don't have that  
but uh what do you think about the mess that's we've created in iraq  
it's just what do you do for them  
you want to do something for them  
but you don't want to get so directly involved that you're [occupying] the the country  
to do it  
yeah  
but you see president bush is telling them rebel you know uh [uprise]  
and that's what they did  
and now they're like asking him for help  
and he's like no we can't get involved  
what my husband had very strong feelings  
he uh agreed with um the general schwartzkopf  
he said um he should have let bush should have let him finish his job  
he should he should have let them um corner the republican guards  
yeah  
exactly  
that's what everyone says  
everyone i talk to they says you know  
it's real easy to say that  
yeah  
i don't think the higher ups were thinking about what this guy's going to do with the rest of his war machine  
they're going oh well it's not going to hurt us  
so we're just going to let them go  
but really we didn't think about the people that he was going  
and i mean he he's just  
they yeah they they did they stuck right to their goals  
and right  
what they were going to say  
and the american people when this first started they were even reluctant to let them do that  
so they were they were playing it very safe  
but you know it an ounce what do they say an ounce of [hind] sight is worth whatever  
they i don't know they it schwartzkopf knew what had to be done  
and it's too bad that he just didn't have the ability just to do it to you know the uh the go ahead to do it  
because he had the  
he knew what was going to happen more than any of us  
because i didn't realize that um  
it was going to make such a mess  
i mean i feel really sorry for these people  
these people are middle class people just like us  
can you imagine if someone started bombing your neighborhood  
and you knew this  
these people are going to come  
and if you were in your house they were going to take you and beat you  
of course you're going just going pick everything up that you can carry  
and you're going to run  
and it it's just too bad that we couldn't see that  
well you know what i was hoping  
i was hoping iran was going to take a very um dramatic stand and invade you know  
and then like [iran's] the big bad guy you know  
but really if if they were going to save people's lives  
yeah  
i know  
it's like they were using them as friends when we were having the conflict  
but i i you know i almost swear i'm kind of disappointed with the iranians  
why they didn't go save  
i mean i don't know if the kurdish  
i know the [shiite's] are their people  
but i don't know  
i think they have a bond with the the kurds  
yeah  
i i think they should have just done more uh  
and maybe if the world could have given them some type of aid  
it's it's just so complicated  
oh yeah  
well you  
knowing them they're very um oh  
i don't know  
almost compare them to a very [egotistical] man  
you're damn right  
i'm going to protect my family you know  
so i i was amazed too  
i was really i was really um proud of them though that they stayed out of it  
but  
oh yeah  
i was i  
that part scared me  
that that um the [egyptians] would pull out  
and i just saw atomic bomb  
we're supposed to talk about the middle east crisis   and should we be involved and uh what's it going to cost us in the long run  
are you ready  
the middle east crisis should we be there  
well you realize why we were in the middle east why we invaded iraq why we were   in saudi why we attacked kuwait and we we're why we are still fighting iraq  
no  
i really believe it's because  
i think it has something to do with oil don't get me wrong  
but saddam is saddam is a [madman]  
anyone that would use chemical weapons to fight his own people  
and   obviously that has something to do with it  
and and if you know  
i can see that he was in kuwait  
kuwait was the [nonaggressor]  
and the [saudis] are our allies  
we have several [treaties] and several [alliances] with the [saudis] that range back for probably forty years  
you know they've been our friends through thick and thin  
they   were at the saudi border   and ready to storm into saudi  
shouldn't we try and help our friends  
what did we lose   forty one americans   lives  
oh  
of course   our government is full of liars thieves and crooks  
and that's   our own fault because we elected them  
you know it's uh  
i went on jury duty here not long back  
and uh one of the guys that was on the jury they were asking him if if you could believe a lawyer or if a   lawyer's reputation was so [tainted] that he couldn't be believed  
and one guy being selected [snickered] and couldn't keep his head up you know  
and the guy said well can you share it with us what you what you find so funny  
he says well i already told you my sons a lawyer  
he said that when he graduated the day after his bar examine   there in houston  
he told him dad you know how to tell when a lawyers lying to you  
his lips are moving  
and ninety percent of all politicians   and lawyers  
so by definition all lawyers and politicians are liars  
the fact that they take our money and don't do what we think is right makes them thieves  
so what's it going to cost us in the long run there in saudi  
are we going to lose more lives there  
well we hit them with more in one month than we used in three years the last three years of vietnam  
and whenever you strike on open terrain with that sheer volume   there's nothing they can do about it  
you know it's not like we threw eight aircraft over there all by ourselves and said this is wrong  
we were there  
the [brits] were there  
the french were there  
this is with u n backing  
and to some level even russia was behind  
so honestly if there is was a well perceived war world wide this was it  
but what i can't understand is then many of the kuwaiti youth didn't fight wouldn't fight  
it's okay for us to go extend our [youth's] lives like so much water in the desert  
and it's not their job to fight for their own land  
and really from all i can from all [indications] the iraqi beliefs if you will are more similar to our own  
and the kuwaitis aren't even helping rebuild their own country  
the kuwaiti young won't rebuild anything  
they won't work  
yeah  
it was on the news last night  
the uh u s army is doing it all  
well they talked to one kuwaiti woman yesterday  
and her biggest concern in life was that she couldn't get a housekeeper  
and do you have a housekeeper  
well i wouldn't mind having one  
but you know i'd like to make sure that i have a job tomorrow first  
it it [astound]  
you realize that the kuwaiti government gives every kuwaiti man woman and child money  
for nothing  
for for for doing nothing  
for sitting on there [kiesters]  
oh that ought to give their programming trouble shouldn't it  
uh they do nothing  
they hand them money each year  
and they're part of  
oh okay  
okay  
i guess so  
oh dear that's a hard one  
that's really hard for me because uh you know i really i have a son that's sixteen  
and i think you know eventually you know he'll be of of drafting age  
and i think gosh do i want him to go  
and yet i'm proud to be an american  
and i know that we have a country that you know people would give anything to live in a lot of people anyway because we have so many wonderful things that they don't have  
and yet i don't know whether i'd be willing to give his life for for this country  
and yet and yet i know that i that  
and i i when i was in school it was always the tired the tired excuse that we went to war to save us against communism  
but i'm not sure that that's the reason anymore i mean not sure that communism is is as strong as it once was  
and i'm not sure that that that's the reason why we're like we were in vietnam supposedly so  
well with the  
well it's because of oil isn't it  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i agree with that  
oh yeah  
well yeah  
he's uh a bad person very definitely  
yeah  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
many years  
uh_huh  
well  
uh_huh  
certainly  
but what at at what cost you know  
that's the uh the thing it came out it came out wonderfully supposedly  
i mean everything is  
and we won  
yeah  
and that that's wonderful  
but what if if that wasn't the case  
what if we would have lost thousands of young men  
would that would it have been too much of a price to pay for that  
i don't know  
see and i think there are a lot of things that we don't know  
but   that  
the american people  
oh sure  
well and there's a lot   that we  
yeah  
i think that's true  
but i think there's a lot that we the public doesn't need to know  
i think there's some things we shouldn't know just for national security sake  
and i you know i think if we did know i think there would be a lot more chaos than there is because i don't i don't think people could handle it  
so i think there are things that we should not know the masses shouldn't know  
but i also agree that there are a lot of crooks and liars too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
have a lawyer background  
yeah  
have a law background  
you're right  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
that's true  
see and i don't know i don't know i can't tell the future that's what scares me so much about it  
i mean i thought the war was going to go on and on  
i really was surprised when it ended so quickly  
and  
i know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
they were  
oh sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that is very it's very strange  
uh and yet you know see that's another thing that that's difficult for americans  
their culture is so much different than ours you know  
i've heard from many people that we could not even begin to understand how they feel about things because their values and their [perceptions] are so much different than ours  
and um they just don't think the same way we do  
their culture is completely different and almost opposite  
uh_huh  
that's true  
uh i didn't realize that  
oh my word  
uh yeah  
see and that's another question you have to ask is this our job  
is are we should we still be there even you know  
i don't know the answers to those questions  
i think they're tough  
and i think you know it's  
i don't know that anybody knows the answers  
i think they know what they believe  
but i'm not sure they really are one hundred percent sure  
uh_huh  
you're kidding  
that's unreal  
no  
no  
and don't plan on having one either ever  
oh i'd love to have one  
but you know  
sure  
sure  
that's right  
that's right  
uh no  
i wasn't i didn't wasn't aware of that  
no  
for doing nothing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

yes  
um how do you feel about um the way the u s has [reacted] in the middle east  
huh_uh  
what is the [woodward] book you are referring to  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
right  
that was my feeling  
i was i was very against our involvement so quickly  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
right  
i think we're very naive as far as that part of the world is concerned  
right  
right  
in spite of all the promises  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
and i'm not sure we're sensitive to to other cultures  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
but i'm not sure it's something you can teach  
i mean   awareness  
huh_uh  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
right  
right  
and um what about the whole situation with the refugees the kurds  
but what about the palestinians  
right  
right  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well do you think the u s should even be involved i mean as the world leader in the sense trying to resolve these issues  
or should we have just stayed out of it  
right  
right  
right  
huh_uh  
right  
but in a sense i don't know that i would say it's good  
in a sense i'm glad that saudi wasn't more changed by by the situation  
because   i mean we really don't i mean i don't think it's our world to [westernize] the whole world  
so the fact that the saudi could just sort of pull back and uh remain you know culturally sort of clean is interesting  
huh_uh  
right  
right  
well you know i mean i actually lived in beirut from sixty eight to eighty four  
and so i mean it's been dangerous for sometime  
i'm not sure that it's changed that much  
well see that's it  
it really hasn't  
exactly  
it depends on whether one talks physical or or sort of cultural  
culturally i mean it's obviously changed a lot  
because it's more of a survival city  
but the buildings are still [intact] and still beautiful you know you know  
there was garbage on the corner when i got there  
and there's garbage when i left  
but i mean it's just a different cultural aspect  
i mean the trucks don't come daily  
and you really don't want the garbage in your house  
so and i mean i traveled in the area too  
and um so that many of the countries turkey and syria are the same as they were for traveling  
yeah  
i was never able to go to baghdad  
it was i never could get a visa  
so even before so even when things were good in the middle east americans weren't really given visas to go into baghdad  
and um but it's it's a very beautiful part very interesting historically of course which was my interest art history  
so uh  
right  
right  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
i see  
i see  
then great  
and um you know have a good business trip  
okay  
thank you  
bye bye  
well i was it was favorable  
i i just i think the sanctions would have worked  
but it would of taken longer  
and uh now with all this stuff coming out with [woodward's] book and everything  
uh and then i saw a nightline program last night about all the funding of [hussein's] uh back as early as nineteen eighty six  
so uh been a different turn  
and then i don't think we projected what was going to happen after the war  
it got over so fast  
so uh  
well it just came out i guess yesterday  
it's called the [commanders]  
and it's uh it says big story in the paper about it today bush trying to comment on it that [colin] powell was against the uh uh an early uh  
he was for sanctions  
and so it seems like there's you know always some body digging things like that  
but i'm not for sure we know exactly what what all happened in that situation  
so we were so uh fast to get over the vietnam whatever the vietnam syndrome is that now we've tied ourselves up there in the middle east for a long period of time  
yeah  
i just think i think if we had been very i mean if we had that good of a correlation through the united nations then they could have uh they could have made sanctions work i'm pretty sure  
with that much support you would have just penalized any nation that broke the [embargo]  
we are  
we are i think you know  
in in we've just [misread] almost everything in that we always seem to be getting in bad with the wrong fellow for the next next tenure for the next thing down the road  
and uh then we can and we don't tend to read israel correctly  
so uh i don't know  
it should be a mess  
it's uh not going to be anything we're going to get out of very soon  
right  
they can talk a good game  
but uh being a historian it's you know you read all that clear back at least to the turn of the century with all the mess after the first world war  
and we just we're still i i you're absolutely right  
too naive  
we just if we do find so called experts in any area of the world we don't listen to them  
so   um i don't know  
be be interesting to keep watching i guess  
but i'm just afraid it's going it's going   to break us  
not very much in our colleges  
we're trying  
we're i happen to teach at a college with a tremendous number of international students  
and and cultural diversity is just something we really don't understand  
and it needs to be uh taught from the [earliest] grades  
with our school systems in such disarray i don't know if that it doesn't look terribly hopeful  
well you can at least uh   give them the awareness of the different cultures and uh you know have all sorts of um at least you know let them know what that that other people do things differently than than than maybe in their own neighborhood  
so and when when when those people are around  
and you can get them to meet  
and we're all pretty much alike  
so uh   but it's uh it's something as you know as i said won't go away  
so it will be a good topic for me in the class for along time  
because i teach history  
so  
well i would just think if bush was so successful in [lining] up the correlation to [prosecute] a war then he should be equally successful in getting that same correlation to push the united nations to uh uh somehow persuade those nations to give the kurds a [homeland]  
they were promised that  
well that's the same thing  
they uh they haven't been waiting quite as long even though they've been waiting since forty eight  
uh that that becomes a different matter simply because your dealing with israel  
and they seem to be more [intractable] than ever  
uh that [shamir] can't can't retain his leadership if he if he backs down the [slightest] bit  
so uh i just don't see us i don't think there's anybody of of major [stature] on the scene of like the great [statesman] of the past  
or at least we thought they were  
i'm not for sure that they were  
they seem to have gotten us into some of these messes  
well i wish we could stay out of it  
but the oil is not going to allow us to  
we absolutely need that oil  
that's the major thing  
if we didn't need the oil and if we didn't have the ties with the israelis we could probably stay out of it  
but i'm not for sure that we're not [destined] at least for the [foreseeable] future as long as we can keep our head our own head above water to be the world leader  
so i bush is probably if he can keep that correlation together especially the french and the british and the germans and be sure that the japanese can kick in some of their money  
they may just have to  
i don't know what type of pressure they can put on all the nations there too because now that the war is over societies have just about gone back to their own   uh uh cold [selves]  
and i wouldn't have necessarily fought for the kuwaitis  
they uh they're nobody likes them in that part of the world  
but uh it's just such a volatile area  
i mean there's just no stability period  
huh_uh  
absolutely  
yeah  
i think you're right  
i it's not our uh role to make everybody like us  
but it's just uh for those who have may have wanted to travel in that part of the world that are up in the age i am it's going to eliminate that for awhile  
i think it's going to be too dangerous to be any place in there  
oh did you  
yes  
yeah  
well i i haven't been to beirut  
but i've heard what a wonderful city that  
it's just totally gone to uh  
it hasn't  
that's one part of the world  
i've been to north africa a lot but not um  
i haven't been to beirut or syria or baghdad  
right  
sure  
well i think we've done them a good job today then   for this little project they're doing  
in fact i just talked to the director awhile ago  
so uh he was checking to see if i was going to stay in because i've been so busy with this presidential search  
i haven't had a chance to   really do any calling myself  
so uh  
thank you  
and you continue  
bye bye  
hello  
hi um  
this is betty  
and i'm in richardson texas  
oh okay  
well here we go  
i guess we're going to have a lot of [parades] this weekend in honor of these guys that are that did some stuff over in the gulf um  
yeah uh  
no  
i haven't pushed one yet  
i just  
okay  
we're just sort of getting acquainted here  
um you know i i just wanted to see if you know you had an opinion about this  
or you know  
um so if that's okay with you then i'll just press one  
okay  
well hi  
good morning um  
i think i mean if if i start this i just wanted to say that um one of the things that i don't think we really understood about the the middle eastern situation is that they're a totally different type of people than we are  
and i mean they think differently  
and their idea of what is justice is totally different from ours  
and and right now i i think that that's been proven in the fact that um they have just  
well anyway i just think that you know the united states policy over there  
i think we should just leave them alone  
i really do in in a major way because they just um that whole region over there i think needs to settle it's own differences within itself  
and that's the way the course that they should go  
i mean you know we can maybe help them a little bit prompt them  
but i don't think this intervention at such high levels should be going on  
the the thing with israel and [palestine] i believe that should be settled between them  
and also um you know the other thing is their idea or our idea of democracy has nothing to do with them  
i mean i mean i'm talking about the whole middle  
and and maybe this is too general  
but i just believe that um they do not look at democracy the same way we do  
they don't understand it as we don't understand the way they live  
and so you know trying to put like a square [peg] in a round hole is just you know  
i don't think that that's the way to go in this  
and um you know it it oh well that's that's a couple thoughts on it  
i i guess you know i'd like you to maybe express something here  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
well  
well yeah  
um i i guess we could be a [catalyst] for their change  
i um  
the war has certainly sort of set things on end over there  
and i don't think we'd be talking about this you know the israeli situation [palestinian] situation um sort of came to a head um unless there had been a war  
i mean that was one thing   that came out of it good or bad  
i i don't judge any war as good or bad  
it's just a war  
and i don't see any winners or losers  
i just see dead bodies  
i'm sorry you know  
but um i i just think you know you're right  
and i think maybe it's at a whole different level of them trying to cooperate and get along  
it's not going to be that we're going to uh you know sort of tell them to go to their room  
and that's going to solve the whole problem  
it's going to be them  
yeah  
and you know  
it's  
yeah  
that that's true too  
i um  
oh well yeah  
they they understand violence  
they love violent leaders to you know  
i mean look at you know the leader they had  
they they just adored him   because he was so strict and cruel  
and you know for a while there he had them  
well it has a lot to do with their religion  
i got to say   that over there um  
and i know this only because from personal experience that i'm speaking of this  
because i i've you know traveled around town with different cab drivers in a situation where i've done that  
and one one of the [kindest] people i've ever met in my whole life um is from that area of the country  
and i mean he is just overly he he is [abounding] in [kindness] let's say  
and his wife is so [godly] i mean every thought  
they have a totally different life than we have  
you know and when you add the um [commercialization] of the western world it sort of screws everything up for them  
and they have very basic life um  
well it's just a very basic life  
and they just really believe in [allah] or god or whatever  
and it's you know everything is to the glory of [allah]  
and and you know and it it's almost like  
yeah  
well that's   see using that  
yeah  
and it's always been military  
and it's always been  
and that's that's always been the way of the world don't you think  
yeah  
so it's really hard when you see the leaders compared to the people  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
and [surrendering]  
that was  
yeah  
it just really comes down to people are people you know  
you have to have some compassion some [humanness]  
doesn't matter where the boundaries are um you know  
there are political boundaries  
and those are man made boundaries  
but you know for heaven sakes that's something that's been going on for ages  
yeah  
that's true  
hello  
i'm nola  
and i'm in plano  
yeah  
now did you push one  
oh okay  
okay  
but i think it's  
i just started doing this  
so i don't know too much about it  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
that will be fine  
hi  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i i think overall that's right  
i think it's kind of sad though that for generations they've been taught to hate each other  
and that's you know  
if  
somewhere in there someone's going to have to learn a different way  
you know an an i i think that um  
true we do have completely different ways of looking at things at a lot of things  
but uh at the same time i think there are a lot of there is a lot of good that the united states and other countries can do as far as example  
and and uh i think some different things could come from what's happened than what we expect  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but that's the type of thing they understand  
they don't understand any other way  
and so at that at that you have to work at their level   to an extent too  
they wouldn't have understood anything else than what we did in the war  
there was nothing else  
yeah  
yeah  
i can't figure out why they adored him  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what's sad is that the leaders that have control   are power  
yes  
and they abuse that  
which i think that that's not the the way the majority of the people over there really are  
but i think in a in a way the war uh i think in a way all the involvement over there too though has shown a lot of people that there are a lot of people that don't follow what those few are doing  
and there are a lot of people who are good people  
you know there's  
and i i think we may not have ever have seen that without some of these uh [newspeople] being in there in the broadcasts and the the uh soldiers leaving um you know [surrendering] and   trying to get out of that situation  
and and the you know  
that's right  
and i i think so much of it is what you're taught  
you know they teach their children uh in such a way that  
all right carolyn  
when do you  
are you reading the papers about the the middle east summit  
yes  
i'm just a little bit too  
i think um i think i was worn worn out from middle east after the war  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  

that's i think uh  
i don't know in the short run it would be really nice to get the hostages all back  
i think that's really uh really important  
i i   i i guess we grew up in such a different world i could never even imagine taking hostages  
but i think they just have a whole different world than we do  
so i don't know  
but i don't know what do you think some of the long term repercussions might be  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think um  
i don't know i have uh i just have this this civil rights mentality i i guess  
you know should we  
or or you know should we uh  
those i wish those countries could have the same type of freedoms or whatever that we do  
i guess that's what i i hope for them  
but some of them don't want those freedoms i think  
their their religious beliefs may um may not you know  
they may not want it as a whole  
so i think that's something that has to be considered too  
but i think that's a that's really a long term type thing  
i know that the the  
it said think about long term repercussions  
and i was just thinking well peace is peace   you know  
and that really is the nicest thing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think so  
i think um  
and  
right  
i think i think they realized we would probably never push him out  
and uh i think the other  
probably all of the other arab countries said that we were sort of [wimpy] for not forcing him out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yep  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i think the the thing is though i i guess the the arab countries that used to argue with us or not support any ideas that that [coincide] with the the u s ideas or whatever used to probably receive money from the soviet union  
and i guess that's all gone  
i think that's really uh probably what started the whole process  
i  
yeah  
i think i think that they're they're so much more vulnerable now because they don't receive support   from the soviet union  
so i guess they're saying well you know we can eat two ways or we can get this aid free from these countries two ways  
we can either act like we're going to be pro communist or act like we're going to be pro uh pro democracy  
and whatever gets us the most honor that's what we'll act like we're going to do  
but we really won't change in the long run  
i think that's the way i sort of see them all working you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's it's really funny as an american and always being an [ally] with the israelis  
i always find it very hard in my heart to to [align] with the israelis because they seem to be just as bad as the arabs you know  
but then again they have to live in that environment  
they have to be subjected to all of the arab [bombings]   and terrorist attacks and whatever  
then they have to negotiate almost everything  
and then you think to yourself well you know in your heart you don't want to be [aligned] with somebody that's mean and cruel to someone else  
but if that's the environment that they have to live in and survive in then you have to sort of  
like i don't know  
logically  
uh some  
yeah  
i think it kind of uh it didn't really take over the first page quite as much as it did i think during the war  
but um we definitely need something there with all the hostages and   what all  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh well you know i just see this middle east situation with with russia and everything there that's happened i think that that crisis has kind of slowed down  
and i see the middle east as being you know   the real hot spot of the future so to speak  
so i guess i view it as being the prime importance as far as   trying to negotiate trying to wind down some of the [tensions] and everything that are there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i guess the question in my mind somewhat  
and and it depends on the country you know  
i think some are more peaceful than others  
if you look at um iraq for example   and you know the recent thing with the u n going in there   and the the bomb development and all this kind of stuff you know  
gosh  
i think you know we should have got him while we could   or whatever  
and i think there's a certain mentality   to that that's in the middle east you know the the constant fighting you know  
and  
yeah  
i think they they look at force as a way of   you know their their means to their ends  
and uh so i you know i don't know so much if these peace talks are going to  
i don't know how much they'll stay to them  
you know if if we even if we say that we're going to do stuff i don't know how they'll stick to that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's probably a bonus on our part  
yes  
it is  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i tend to agree with you  
you know i think they have in mind what they want to do  
and i think a lot of times their might make right  
and you know it  
kind of the [forceful] you know  
i don't know  
but i just don't think peace is [uppermost] in their minds  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well what do you feel about the um present situation in the mideast  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree  
i think i think there's definitely been some changes um  
and i think you know the the um end of the soviet union will definitely have it's effect on on the situation  
um you know in that there's there's not you there you know you know  
basically since the end of world war two there was always you know that little [proxy] war going on   you know with um the u s funding israel and and the um soviet union funding the arab countries  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but on the same token you know israel has lost a lot of their you know value to the u s in being you know the [foothold] of capitalism   you know in in the mideast  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but on the other hand you know if they would have had a hard time [retaliating] because the you know they they wouldn't have been given access to the friend or foe codes  
they basically would have you know had a had a they had they would have had had to fly through you know two enemies  
the u s would claim that they would have not given them to them  
i mean of course you know public statements can be taken for  
uh_huh  

uh_huh  
you know well to begin with you know  
i pretty much question or what what the u s motives were in uh in in actually the original involvement  
uh i  
the cynical side of me says that you know it was more for uh the the domestic political situation than for anything else   you know and that you know and for portraying bush is a strong president  
uh i mean i really i really think that that my gut feeling is that that you know he pretty much picked picked the fight with uh with um hussein  
i mean i'm not not saying at all that hussein wasn't quite willing to enter that fight  
but you know i think i think that that um we chose to have our official feelings hurt  
where a lot  
i think i mean i thought i think that um in the past we've allowed lots of things like that to happen  
and i i really don't i really don't think that  
i think i think it was it was there were there were a lot more demographic related interests involved than true foreign policy interests  
um  
yeah  
and i mean in in in along this line since since you know it it really it really didn't accomplish very much except we're getting getting uh the iraqis out of kuwait  
i just don't i just don't i i i i i i don't foresee bush making the decision to invest a lot of manpower and money and you know in in fighting a second battle  
um you know over over the uh over over what what probably won't accomplish him accomplish much for him politically  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i have i have very fixed feelings about israel  
um i think that that for a long while we've we've had almost a you know  
well it looks like it's just about as volatile as it usually is  
what do you think mark  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
and then we'll see what happens when uh they're not funded quite as much   or [supplied] with arms the same way  
uh_huh  
well i we tend to be pretty strong [supporters] of israel ourselves  
you know we kind of cringe when they make mistakes but yet   overall tend to support them  
but i think one of the most interesting things to me recently was you know during the war   uh in uh kuwait was uh the fact that they did not [retaliate]   for the uh [scud] missiles that were uh [launched] there  
that just seemed to me to be a uh a phenomenal uh demonstration of restraint  
and it must have reflected uh uh some awful good uh diplomacy on the part of the u s  
i see  
oh you don't think they got the codes from the u s already  
i see  
that's true  
they can yet they  
yeah  
well what do  
what about this situation with the you know the uh continual uh harassment by iraq right now and uh apparently failing to let the uh arms [inspectors] have free access  
uh_huh  
huh yeah  
okay  
sure  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well do you think that uh we should ignore it and just allowed him to go ahead and uh   you know move on into kuwait and see what happens  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
well may have been  
you know i'm not saying that that's not the case uh  
right  
no  
no  
it doesn't look like we're getting ready to do to do much more in there  
even at this point  
yeah  
well what about uh  
do you have any any views on uh [israel's] relation to the u s  
do you   think we ought to you know   back off on our support of the country  
or what do  
okay
so what do you think about us getting involved in the middle east
oh i don't think we did really either
well that's that's true
yeah
the uh the the biggest difference
i got to agree was the idea that we were allowed to go and get it done rather than than set up a a line and say we're not going to let you cross this this point anymore
and that really hurt the uh the uh the vietnam experience
uh i got to admit that one
uh_huh
well do you think that um by uh going over there and doing what we did that uh it's going to give us a chance for peace over there
yeah
that kind of
well that's
uh_huh
but is i mean is that any different than uh the way it is in even our country
i mean uh back in the fifties and forties the blacks didn't like the whites the whites didn't like the blacks
but we're getting to the point where we get along pretty good
i mean isn't it logical that just any of the that you can solve differences like that
so you
uh_huh
so you think it comes down to education or or something like that
i suppose that's probably true
uh_huh
no
oh
uh_huh
yeah
because
yeah
i guess the uh you kind of think about the good things and not about the bad
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
right
well isn't it also though based on religion i mean isn't that a a real powerful
uh_huh
well don't you think though that uh because of religion it just [enhances] the differences uh of the tribes and makes it so that it's that much harder to get along
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
that's true
well since there's not going to be peace over there
don't you think like getting involved as we have that that's going to mean that we're going to be involved from now on and so any war that breaks out we're going to have to be in the middle of it
uh_huh
it doesn't seem that way
does it
uh_huh
yeah
i know
yeah
that's probably true
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
true
they want the the gas guzzlers
and
uh_huh
didn't it though
yeah
i got to agree with you there
i think that does get a lot a lot of good there
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh united states right
uh_huh
let's say i'd have to say overall that the the war was was beneficial to the united states with with the change in attitudes and all that you know all that stuff
i mean it's people think better about uh the u s now
and that's really going to
i think eventually come back and and help with overall business standards
i mean people are going take more pride in their work and things like that
i think it's going to really help out
overall
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
oh yeah
he had some excellent military people
yeah
i was the person i was impressed with most
i mean i i really you know [colin] powell and and general schwartzkopf they're military people
but i really didn't know that [cheney] was as military minded as he is
i mean that's right
i well he was what uh uh senator from utah or something like that
i can't remember where
yeah
and
see i don't know that
and it you know i was real impressed with his handling of this
i know that
oh yeah
uh_huh
i don't think very many people are
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
there was uh there was a lot of talk about the idea that the even the uh iraqis themselves the people wished we would have done that uh
yeah
well unless they finally do take care of it themselves
well that's true too
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
yeah
especially the cost of that
and and uh uh the attitudes of the soldiers i mean they're there
they think they could handle it better
but if they came back and then had to turn around and go the attitudes would be just horrible
yeah
that's probably true
uh_huh
well i i thinks its been interesting to hear you know about the overall outlook and before we ended the war what implications we'd be dealing with uh you know the strong religious beliefs and you know it's just another uh attitude you know and what we are really getting into and the fact that that war you know coalition forces stuck together
uh and uh you know i just think now is that they should have finished it all off
because i think we're just going to see reap the repercussions down the line because he's still probably maintained power it sounds like he's you know knocked down the revolt or at least saddam hussein
you know if they uh
yeah
yeah
no
i i don't think a lot of them didn't want him to lose you know
power completely
but it's hard to say
yeah
to go after the political heads of state
yeah
anyway but now it looks like uh kuwait has asked us to defend its borders more of a permanent type of basis which will be a first
uh it's interesting uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i don't know if the united states is interested as much as establishing a democracy as opposed to just getting rid of saddam you know if uh
but you know we'll see if anything
if he if he gets stability and he doesn't you know get knocked off you know by a coup or something down the line you know what happens on down the road
i just uh it'll be interesting
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
interesting
interesting
there's like a two square mile area that's occupied by some iraqi soldiers and [kuwait's] saying it's their land and did did their line of [demarcation] don't they call it
and they've already outlined that for the cease fire and uh apparently we don't want to deal with that
but the kuwaitis want these this land back that they're saying is theirs
so it's
interesting that we said that we said no
we're not going to get involved you know we've already
established you know the line of cease fire you know
and uh the [demarcation] line
so um they were definitely trying to avoid any hostilities i thought it was interesting though that we did shoot down some of their airplanes when they went up
but i don't think they're doing that any more
yeah
yeah
they warned them
we told them we would this is after the cease fire
i don't know maybe they were helicopters i thought they were
i thought they were letting the helicopters fly around
anyway so it's
yeah
yeah
uh well they hate
i mean they hate us over there
most of those people
but obviously i think it was in you know the heads of state obviously you know
you know the ones that let us in
but uh it's anyway i would think uh yeah
i think it was good that that we got that you know that we drew the line somewhere and whether that you know the effect it has in the long run you know to bear on it
yeah
but i think
yeah
and i think you know it'll deter the next person from you know thinking the same types of things
but i think the problem is that we'll never get away from the expansion idea
i mean you know we're a territory in general we're going to run into another
[huddle] and then go so far
and say it's a hitler but perhaps saddam seems like he's as bad as hitler almost by the way he you know they torture and kill people you know from what you read
but um you know once the nuclear power you know nuclear bombs uh get in the hands of some of these other countries uh for them to you know who knows uh who may
yeah
that's the only thing is they they don't understand implications i don't think or may or may not
but
yeah
well we'll see
and you know it has
i may
got to be going here
they keep saying they think he won't make it
but it looks like he's you know taking control of all these cities that were [besieged] by the rebels
but sounds like he's gotten control and you know it's just a matter if he can survive
you know without somebody else you know a coup attempt or something
alright
and take her easy
alright
there
so we're discussing u s involvement in the middle east
that's a tough one now isn't it
but should we be the world police i i that's my question to myself i don't know
would that be smart on our part
well but we've done it before
and it has not been successful
those poor [souls] aren't going to get in to anything but food lines at this point
and use the u n as it was set up to be
our people now
they had an interview with uh i'm going to [mispronounce] his name
i know i can't pronounce his name
i give up the general [stormin] norman and at the end of it
it must have been sixty minutes or something like that
no david frost
that's what it was
anyway at the end of it
they rolled all of the u s names of the u s casualties and there were two women there
so it's not our men anymore
it's it's our people
my husband thought both of them were the [quonset] hut he thought so
well well i mean i think it's horrible what they did to the
and i think [gassing] a whole village of women and children and all this sort of thing
that's even before this latest event it's horrible
and i think what he's doing to them is horrible
what did he do
he did some [atrocity] the other day he dropped something on them
um it wasn't chemicals what was it it it was i can't even remember what it was now
it was something melted but it was just [dreadful] you know
and i i'm i'm horrified
but i don't think every time there is an [atrocity] committed in the world we should run over there
and monitor it
we can't afford to
and we're not smart enough to know who's right
and wrong either maybe you know there's no telling what the did at some point in time you know we're not smart enough to be objective with all these situations and say okay these are the ones this is the side we should be on
and we have so many internal problems that are not they are growing we are twenty fourth in the world for oh no
infant
infant [mortality] that's what it is
and i mean the countries ahead of ahead of us that the babies live longer and are more healthy are rather embarrassing i mean there are some countries in there that we have no business being behind
our technology is there
and and i've found
and i think we're breeding another disease this i think i think we have a social disease called poverty
i think people get into the syndrome of poverty
and they don't know how to get back out again
they're following what their parents did
and their parents did
but the money they get is just i mean it's borderline survival i couldn't live on two hundred and thirty dollars a month
i can't go to the grocery store twice for that kind of money
i can't with my family
and i have a small family
so you know i granted they can do that very easily it's easy to do
but look where it puts them
it puts them in a trap
and hopefully things are more [merciful] where you are
but we actually had some uh street people picked up last week in dallas for picking up tin cans for picking up tin cans they were going to turn them in
they were going to cash them in
disturbing the trash or something like that
it just blew my mind
wait a minute
well dallas politics are rather strange you know
anywhere they're down here they're strange i can imagine from an [outsider's] point of view
oh we are too
i think we should promise to solve all of our problems
and then we can work on somebody else's well they may have come into their own because for so many years they were just a lame duck organization
that really didn't have anything
and maybe they have at last achieved the status or the need for a organization such as
that that they will achieve the status they should have had all along
well the other way is to say no
and to refer to the and to just say i'm sorry
we're not yes
yes
it's sad your losing people
but why should we lose people because you you know
that's not the answer
though the answer is
yes
you're losing people
and we're sorry
but we're not the people to make these decisions
a a world council
well now that we've solved the problems of the world
that was easy
well i think people agree
i think it's just getting it implemented
oh i i think we could use a lot of it at home
but definitely a hot spot is the poor last year
a lot of
i agree
uh i i agree
i like the i like the the peace process spend more money on things like that
and especially with um i don't know the [palestinian's] and the israelis fighting so much over who is going to go to this peace conference i'd tie some of the money to those peace conferences if they don't want to go to the peace conference then i guess they don't want the two billion dollars for the next batch of f [fifteens] or whatever
which we'll never do
but i think it is about time
especially with the israelis that we because many times in the past they've you know they're happy to take our money and stuff
but they often times fail to give us any support in return
right
well uh they they seem to do a lot of that
so the problem i have in the past at least it was you know they were very [strategically] important to us
but i think that's [diminished] a lot lately too
especially with the relationship we've started to develop with saudi arabia after the gulf war and all
and i don't know maybe we could use that to our advantage
at least if we are going to be giving them all this money then at least you know we should get at least some cooperation or whatever in return
right
well that's for sure
and we built some good friends over there
now with uh time when we can use them you know little right
well most of the large enemies were large enemies to begin with though
there's not too many people that went from being our friends to being our enemies
but there's quite a few that have been from our enemies to at least [tolerating] us or right
that's right
uh and i don't know iran now wants them to [reestablish] more normal relationships with us
i don't know if that is in our best interests either
but it's good that i don't know it seems slightly more stable now
but how long that lasts you know it can history has shown that can just be a [lull] before the storm
right
well they have the all the religious [battles] they have the [nationalist] battle they just seem to have a lot of different cultures and [religions] [nationalisms] all packed into that one small geographical area they all believe that they have rights to these lands you know these two three four groups that all believe that this portion of land [rightfully] is theirs
hopefully you know [optimistically]
okay
what opinion
do you have about what was what happened
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
see i feel like i don't know i feel like there's motivation bush is a member of the [trilateral] commission and he's a member he was a member of the [skull] and bones at i think at [princeton] or [yale] [yale] and uh his motivation goes i don't feel like he is absolutely on the up and up with us on you know the the true motivation he talks a lot about the new world order
and most americans probably don't really know what that would mean
and i maybe i'm being maybe i'm assuming but i don't think most really don't
and so i feel like the real motivation was something that uh most people have absolutely no idea
and that that motivation is to um you know to establish a one world order and to break up the monopoly power of the middle east world
so that they will submit under their uh one world order
well like that's what i felt so i'm like going um am i glad we went over there and did that um i think god's ultimately be in charge
and you know i'm not afraid of what they've done i'm not afraid of saddam hussein i feel he's lost and you know he needs to get saved just like everybody else
but you know i just i guess i have kind of like um kind of real cautious in the whole thing because i know that there's a motive that hasn't been openly discussed or [revealed] to anybody
and uh that's where that's why i really don't have a real set opinion because i don't know everything
i don't you could watch the news all the time
but you don't know anything hardly
and he did talk about that though he did at least he did mention that you know what i'm saying i don't think most people understand what he's talking about when he talks about that new world order
so i don't know
what do you think about
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
but the motivation though see wasn't didn't have anything i don't believe it had anything to do with the oil because i think i i feel like the real motivation of the war was to break up that arab power not to [disperse] the oil but to there were big problems for the the [unifying] of the e e c the european economic community which is going to become i mean they're going to be they're going to put us under if we don't become part of the new world order next year the united states if we don't
i mean we're going to be in big trouble because when europe [unites] and that's why t i building plants in italy because they're going to have power like we can't imagine
because i think bush wanted to break up this other power thing
and it looks real good
but in the end i just see that ultimately who's going to be in charge of this one world order you know what i mean is is george bush really any better than saddam hussein or does he just look better
do you know what i saying
i mean i think one person in power that's not really seeking god
and wanting to do good for the people and not deal for selfish motives is very dangerous
and i don't see that this one world this new world order that him and gorbachev keep talking about
i just don't see that um that's just a real good thing
i think it's something that's going to help him
but i guess i feel like it's going to happen with the war that was the motive of the war was to try and break that up
and so that they could be you know get more power over that arab land you know and try and next year really start pushing this new world order he talks about it all the time
i mean that's all he talks about
but anyway there's a good book by leonard abraham you probably have heard of none dare call it treason
and call it conspiracy well call it conspiracy is a real good book
and he talks a lot about this
i heard him interviewed some so i think it's kind of interesting
but anyway he probably has a new book out that i don't know about yet because i haven't heard him in a while
but i don't know
well that's kind of my feeling on the war i'm kind of like no it's all power plays you know there's so much stuff going on
we don't know about
you know i'm like uh hey peter jennings you know he knows a little bit
but i mean we would all die if we knew what was really going on
i mean
all of america would probably go into a coronary and die
well they would
that they're doing this
but it doesn't change anything
so i'm just like i don't know just i mean i was most people probably think i don't even have a high school education you know because of my attitude about it
but i just feel like there's so much going on
but you know hey i'm going to pray about it
and if i feel led to vote for a certain person i'm going to do it
but i'm not going to get all up tight about all this and stuff you know
huh_uh
because i know at first we were watching the news a lot and man it was like all the time
and i thought gee you know god's going to protect israel and he starts he starts nuking israel he's in big trouble
we'll hear about it you know what i mean anything major happens we're going to find out
so let's chill out and just do what we need to do
i know it was kind of exciting
at first
but
and then i know the first night of the bombing we had was a wednesday
and we had home church and we had a surprise birthday party planned for a sixteen year old and so we you know we're on the way to home church and the [bombing's] just begun you know
and we go into the birthday party for a surprise party
that was you know we just went from one extreme to the other you know
and we felt kind of
it was like man this is really hard you know i want to watch the war
and so imagine the sixteen year old
yeah
we're having a surprise birthday party and a war started in israel
that'll be a good story when she's thirty won't it
well anyway i guess
do you think we're finished
i think so too
i don't know if we did what we were supposed to
but
yeah
we did they can do a lot of we get along good too
some of the callers you don't along with that good you know you have you know what i'm saying
isn't that funny
i bet they're going to do a lot of research on that
uh_huh
yeah
he probably had those glasses on like you know those annie hall kind of glasses
i don't know what you call john [lennon] glasses that's what they are
the women i call annie hall glasses
but if i don't know if they're annie hall glasses or not
i just i don't know
i always think of annie hall when i see them
really
i know the female version of john [lennon's] but i know i talked to some guy who was i talked to some of the yuppie types you know
and they're pretty interesting
but yeah
they're real opinionated
but i guess that's better than nothing you know
but yeah
it's been interesting though all these different people and some of them are real friendly you know
and it's like yeah man when i come to dallas
i'll call you you know and then others don't even relate they just want to go and then some of them have babies crying in the background too
so there may be other reasons than you know that
but well anyway are you in dallas
yeah
i had a guy from rhode island that we talked about fishing
so
and uh i i've had people in massachusetts and vermont
they work at t i up there
do you work at t i
see mine does too in dallas
and uh
yeah
but no
there's t i up in rhode island and stuff
and that guy talked about fishing
and i asked him if he took his wife
and he didn't have a wife and i felt bad that
well i'm sorry
and he goes we're divorced
well i'm sorry
it was real sad
but he was pretty nice and stuff
and then him
and my husband started talking salary
how do you make up in rhode island
so i was just going wait a minute
we're supposed to be talking about fishing
now stop
but anyway
is that funny
but we did talk about fishing though
so well i guess i'll let you go
i'm going to finish my dishes
and if anything happens interesting in the war
maybe they'll have another thing
and i'll get you again
all right
well yeah
i uh
and i'm i'm sure there's things going on that that uh we don't know about
but but uh it a year a year ago now when the the war desert storm was finishing up seems like things were uh going to settle down and nothing seems to
nothing seems to have settled down after all
uh_huh
yeah
right
right
yeah
and and i think there's a
yeah
i have very much doubt that that there's a real understanding at the top levels of of the of the cultures and of what's going on in terms of
and and it seems to me that our policy basically seems to be uh the army of my enemy is my friend
and that that saddam hussein was uh was our buddy buddy as long as he was against iran
and uh iran was our bigger enemy
and then when it turns out that uh saddam hussein
right
right
yeah
oh yes
yes
and when we decided saddam hussein was our enemy then the uh uh-oh
what's his name in uh syria
uh [hafaia] [susaad] i believe
uh is suddenly our friend even though he was he was on our
our leading terrorist yeah
our leading terrorist list
so uh you know
right
right
right
and and uh i think we're trying to we're trying to extricate ourselves somewhat from being so definitely tied to to the israeli side
in terms of all of that israeli versus arab and uh i haven't seen solid evidence yet that we're doing a really good job of that
yeah
yeah
so
right
right
right
and
yes
yeah
well it it from what
yeah
from what little i heard in terms the the the most understanding to get really cynical about it the most understanding uh i uh felt that was displayed in terms of of uh iraq in particular was that it seemed to me that george bush was was trying to play the [peacemaker] in such a way that that he was [guaranteeing] that given their culture that saddam hussein could not back down and would not could not do anything but go to war
and that uh
uh-oh
boy
oh that must have been that
yes
that must have been really
yes
yeah
right
right
yes
right uh  
we eat out quite a bit it's just my husband and i at home now  
so  
oh at least once a week  
we're we're retired now  
when we working out we ate out more than that  
uh   uh_huh  
well what type of restaurant do you like richard  
right  
oh have you  
we like chinese  
we eat   a lot of chinese food  
what do you look for in a restaurant  
you what  
you  
oh i  
right  
i know what you mean  
i like some ambiance  
and i like good food  
i don't like fast food hamburgers and all of that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i don't care to go to a place just for the price of it  
i mean it's like continental french restaurant or something really   with high prices  
and seven courses isn't what i usually look for  
it isn't no that isn't what i look for  
right  
uh_huh  
presentation  
and  
well like   we we've been eating some in a restaurant that that just changed hands recently  
and we're trying to give them a little [patronage]  
but sunday we went there  
and i had a pretty good meal of grilled pork chops and a baked apple and potatoes  
so i said if they would just add a little bit of [cranberry] sauce something like that  
yeah  
that's what i mean by  
right  
uh_huh  
it would mean a lot to the looks of the plate  
tex mex tex mex  
right  
i know  
uh we have a daughter in texas and one in new mexico  
and we've really gotten to like  
we like the real mexican food   better than tex mex  
right  
it's all pretty good isn't it  
right  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i'm originally from maine  
so we like seafood too  
and that's something we don't get here  
and we're in the mountains in virginia  
and most of the [seafood's] frozen  
right  
uh_huh  
that's true  
lots of shrimp  
i know it  
i know the feeling  
we do the same thing  
my son in law is a texan  
and when he goes to maine he eats lobster i guess at least twice a day all the time he's up there  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's like   two ninety eight a pound for a pound lobster  
yeah  
oh yeah  
cheaper  
right  
right  
yeah  
a lot of the restaurants you can get two two one pound [lobsters] for like ten ninety nine  
yeah  
it's a good place to go  
lots of little restaurants too with home cooked food that's up there  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we went to  
we were in galveston last year right well the first of this year actually  
and ate in a restaurant  
and they claimed to have the best shrimp on the gulf coast  
no  
it wasn't  
on the way across louisiana we pulled off we saw a [billboard] and just pulled off taking a chance on a place  
and they had  
it was a small restaurant just kind of out of the way  
and they were set up with two buffets one for their regular sunday chicken and roast beef and vegetables and everything   and then one complete seafood buffet  
that was the best shrimp i have ever had in my life  
they had shrimp fixed probably six different ways  
uh_huh  
right  
it was wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh i tried it  
but i didn't care for it  
not there but at my brothers i tried it  
that's probably true  
it  
i wasn't hungry it wasn't a meal  
we just  
he went down and bought some at a   local place that [steams] them just so we'd try them  
probably needed some cold beer with it  
and  
quite a bit  
oh  
right  
we used to do that once in a while  
but we don't anymore  
uh_huh  
it's fun  
but it's just so much food  
hate to come away feeling uncomfortable  
do you  
well that makes a difference  
where do you go to brunches  
like at hotels or restaurants there  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
we eat at shoney's  
oh  
uh_huh  
that sounds nice  
right  
i imagine it is  

out of which direction  
out of which direction from there  
uh_huh  
so eating out  
what are you interested in in restaurants  
uh once a week twice a week  
yeah  
i understand  
uh but we both work  
and we have a daughter  
and we normally manage to eat out once a week anyway  
uh really i'm kind of open on food  
i'm what you might call a [culinary] [adventurer]  
i'll   uh try anything once  
been on a real barbecue kick lately  
yeah  
excuse me uh yeah  
we usually have chinese once a month  
i hate [franchised] restaurants  
i despise   [franchised] restaurants  
i i i always prefer to go to something that seems more family run   uh some place where you seem to have the attitude like you're going into their home for dinner almost  
i don't  
but i don't like something fake or put on either  
you know if i could have a good small restaurant or a good large restaurant i'd go to the good small restaurant  
and i don't know why that is  
i think it's probably due to pricing often  
well yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it is what you look for  
oh isn't isn't  
uh i try to get my money's worth  
and not just that i try to well that's a big part of it i try to get my money's worth   you know and not just in quantity you know but quality and and flavor and texture and care  
well [presentation's] not always all of it either  
it's it's important  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
something a little extra  
and just for color if nothing else  
yeah  
yeah  
what i miss up here is i'm originally a texan and i miss home cooked mexican  
yeah  
home cooked tex mex  
uh mexican restaurants where it's not owned by an anglo or a corporation  
yeah  
well there's real mexican food  
and there's real tex mex mexican you know by third or fourth generation americans   of hispanic heritage  
oh yes  
and and there's big differences of course  
and of course when you talk about mexican cuisine you that's kind of like talking about american food or chinese food because its regional too  
so  
oh  
uh yeah  
that's the way it is here in colorado also  
no fresh or almost no fresh seafood  
and in texas we got it from the gulf  
and yeah  
here a couple years ago my wife and i went to seattle on vacation  
and i think everything except breakfast was seafood for almost a week  
and it was  
i was like a man starving at every meal  
it's a lot cheaper there isn't it  
lobster  
it's like shrimp on the gulf  
two ninety eight a pound  
that's as cheap as steaks some places   i mean in a grocery store  
oh my gosh  
i've got to go to maine then  
you may have sold a trip for some time  
uh it sounds wonderful  
uh so  
that sound good  
uh down in the gulf i've eaten a bunch of those little uh seafood [shacks] we've called them  
and uh it's just so much different than to eat something that's been frozen   you know  
shrimp straight out of the bay  
hm  
was it true  
hm  
huh  
uh yes  
the [cajuns]  
they can they can do things to shrimp that that no one else can  
so have you eaten crawfish yet  
oh as with anything it's preparation  
uh  
uh_huh  
it  
there's all kinds  
so you do eat out a lot  
one of our other real problems with going out to eat sunday morning brunches  
you know sunday brunch all all you can eat brunches  
uh we still find it fun  
well i work in machine shop and do a lot of physical labor  
and so  
yeah  
uh actually one of our one of our favorites is a chain shoney's  
yeah  
in spite of the fact i've spoken so badly about chains chain restaurants uh we uh do like shoney's pretty well  
but then there's a place up the pass up in the mountains that we pretty [reliably] like to go to on some sunday mornings drive drive up to i think it's about eight thousand foot elevation   and and drive through [woodland] park and go for a short drive in the mountains and have breakfast  
it it it's the way to spend a nice sunday morning  
i think it's as much the the trip to the mountains as it is the breakfast brunch  
you know and it's not that far  
it's thirty miles  
colorado springs  
west  
west out of colorado springs  
all right  
do you want to start out  
oh are you really  
oh  
are you strict vegetarians  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there's very few places that you i'll bet that you could uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and you   wouldn't have the meat products in that  
and some  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
how long have you been doing this  
uh_huh  
do you feel that it has improved the way you feel  
do you think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i always thought it would be hard to figure what to eat if you were a vegetarian  
how how  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
because you don't eat any of those things  
is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we we throw more of it off   our out in other words  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
all that's in it  
uh_huh  
why  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's interesting  
uh_huh  
after you have been on this  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
he thinks more about them then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you kind of have a combination  
uh_huh  
well see we i live in a farming community   so of course we have a lot of animals and that type of thing raised in our area  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you get adjusted to the taste  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you would have a little more trouble when you were looking for a dining area than what most   most people would  
now we wouldn't have that problem because we're not vegetarians  
uh i think the main thing that i look for is uh cleanliness uh you know the in the appearance of the people that work there   and the uh quality of the food that they serve  
yes  
oh we try new places  
but when we  
a lot of times we do eat where we know  
what  
uh_huh  
what the quality  
because a lot of them are the same no matter where you stop  
and uh we do do that a lot  
and i guess i'm getting old older  
also i like to be served  
i like to sit down and have my uh order taken  
right  
yeah  
so i suppose you'd say i  
well i i don't know whether it's age or what it is  
but i have  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you should have a treat  
and i like the light meals  
not all restaurants have light meals on their menu   you know  
and i  
uh l i t e like uh uh things that aren't as heavy a meal  
it  
that you get more uh fruit and maybe cottage cheese or a chicken breast or things that aren't as uh  
they're not [breaded]  
and they're not fried  
and they're not  
yeah  
uh but it's not   all rest  
uh_huh  
i know  
it's too much  
yes  
uh_huh  
i don't know what it is  
but now for instance we we had a scout dinner last night we went to  
and it's it's  
they uh well they'll serve you at your seat  
and usually the salad bar is included  
so you have to get up for that  
but they have so much food that you not matter how hard you try to restrain yourself you end up eating much more than you need  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you can eat   as much as you want and you like the food you know  
uh a lot of times the foods  
like uh [haas's] carry a bread bar that is just out of this world  
and you know  
you  
and soup  
and uh they just  
and fruit and vegetables  
and they they just  
i don't know  


i know i always [overeat] no matter  
i go with good intentions  
but i  
somehow along the way when i come back to my seat i have too much  
and i eat it because it's so good  
yeah  
and i like reasonable prices of course too  
i don't like to you know go to anything that's real expensive  
i think that's a waste of my money  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
chinese  
we've got a good chinese restaurant in town  
i i really like eating there  
and and you don't get stuffed on their food it seems  
you know you can eat a whole big plate of their food and you really don't feel like you've eaten too much  
you're full you know  
you're satisfied  
but you don't feel stuffed and miserable  
uh_huh  
um  
uh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well it'll be real easy for us  
because we're both my husband and i are vegetarians  
so yeah  
so that's the first thing we look for   is if we can eat there or not  
we're not vegan vegetarians  
we do we're [ovolacto]  
we do eat uh eggs and and milk products  
i used to be a complete vegan vegetarian   where i didn't eat any animal products at all  
but um it was it's really difficult in the area if you don't have you know the products that you can get  
and if you go out to dinner there's virtually you know there's not a whole lot of things you can get  
yeah  
i think maybe if you were somewhere like california where they have a lot more vegetarian restaurants   and stuff  
but here basically you go to an italian restaurant or you go to a mexican restaurant   you know where you can get foods that you know where you have a little bit more variety as far as the pastas or the   the corn meal you know   or something  
but   yeah  
yeah  
you have to watch that too  
all you know some of the restaurants here they will you know  
you can ask them and they'll tell you whether or not they use like [lard] or   you know animal fat to cook with  
so but so that's that  
we don't really eat out too much  
we we tend to eat at home  
and actually you know i think we we we get a we have a healthier diet than the average person  
um i've been a vegetarian for uh two years now  
my husband has been one for oh just over a year now  
and uh so  
definitely  
and it it makes you more aware of what you're eating  
because you you have to be  
i mean you you  
i think you you you balance the foods uh you know  
you're more aware of what [nutrient] you know value each thing has   and minerals  
and you're just more aware of food for energy   for energy sake  
well that's just it  
you you do have to figure it out   and and you know to get [proteins] and things  
and when i was a vegan it's you know  
you have to consider calcium and iron and   things like that you you're not even getting through your milk products  
your egg products   if you don't eat any of those  
but actually you can get everything you need through vegetables  
i mean there are there are there are  
you actually you can get more calcium through leafy green vegetables than you can get through milk products  
a lot of people don't know that  
well the thing is that milk products  
our bodies don't uh don't uh  
the [lactose]  
that kind of milk it doesn't  
our  
we we tend to uh  
what's it called  
we don't [synthesize] the the calcium the   same way  
yeah  
we we [slough] some of it  
we we send we send some of it out because it our body doesn't accept some of it  
so we're not utilizing we're  
when it when it gets rid of some of that um that we can't use it get [rids] it gets rid of some of the calcium   whereas when we eat say broccoli you utilize all of it  
you  
your your body accepts   all of the broccoli  
so it's like   it's like say a person using vitamins as opposed to uh vitamin supplements as opposed to eating regular food  
your body just doesn't accept vitamins   and the minerals in the the vitamins in uh supplements that it does in regular food  
you know so  
but we both we both feel much healthier   much healthier  
and i couldn't consider going back to eating  
yeah  
well now i changed for ethical reasons  
and my husband has changed  
he feels more ethically about it  
but he he in the beginning began for health reasons  
but um now he he feels like i do  
that he looks at the things that he eats  
and he realizes what they are   before he eats them  
and he   you know  
yeah  
plus he eats  
we both think more about i thought more of about it as far as what it was i was eating you know   as a living creature  
and now we both think a lot of well what is it we're eating in relation to what it's going to give to our bodies  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we do too  
i mean i was raised in um  
we're in cattle country  
and people here buy a half a cow   and put it in their freezer  
you know and that's that's the way i  
and i  
believe you me it wasn't easy to give up   to give up a hamburger  
that that was one of my favorite foods was was a a was a good steak or a hamburger  
but you know i suppose if you really believe in something it's   you you adjust your life  
because your mind  
you your you  
inside yourself you just it's not right  
so but um  
oh yes   yeah  
so what do you look for when you  
uh_huh  
do you normally when you're traveling do you look for places that's established that that you've been to before or   are you willing to try new places  
yeah  
like   a chain restaurant   or something  
uh_huh  
as opposed to like a cafeteria   kind of situation  
yeah  
well no  
i don't think so  
i think it's just your  
because i i prefer to be waited on too  
i just  
if you're going to go out to eat why not have the whole service   you know  
why not get the whole  
i guess because we don't go out that much  
i feel like it's a treat  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
light menu you mean like cooked light or  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
not a lot of gravy   and things like that  
you know i   i like those too  
i like those too because uh some seems like sometimes it's you order a meal you order their dinner meal and it's like they're trying to find out how much you can eat  
or  
or  
or or like evidently people go in there and they're not satisfied that they'd been given enough and they complain  
and   maybe they're afraid that people are going to   complain or something  
uh_huh  
and i think that's a shame  
i mean i must admit sometimes i do like a buffet  
but uh but i think that they just tend to make you you say oh well i've have got all i can eat  
or or you know it's one of these situations where nobody's going to restrain what you eat   the amount that you eat  
and i think that that we just tend to eat [overeat]  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well at least it's fruit and stuff there  
maybe it's not too bad  
yeah  
just for food   it does seem like it  
yeah  
but uh  
we like uh we do like international food  
so we take  
i like  
we like indian food  
and uh i love italian food  
and uh  
chinese  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's one thing that i wish we had more of uh  
because where we're from it's it's pretty limited  
and it's  
most of the restaurants are oh they tend to be you know american style food  
and we don't have too many  
you have to go all the way to dallas  
and so it really is a treat  
because uh  
you know we don't make a trip sixty five eighty you know sixty five to eighty miles depending how far in dallas it is  
yes  
okay  
no  
i haven't  
is that good  
it's not my favorite  
but   i like it's okay  
uh_huh  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that sounds really good  
yeah  
well are there just the two of you  
okay  
well when my husband and i go out we have four children  
so that makes a difference  
for us when we go out with the kids obviously we want to go somewhere that we can  
the fast food ones are probably the ones they like the best  
but we don't like to go there because that's the most expensive  
so we like to go to a pizza place where you can buy a pizza for one price and feed the whole family   and like that  
right  
right  
but when my husband and i go out we like to go somewhere with a little atmosphere  
and we usually head on down um oh what's the freeway down here  
yeah  
and there are um all along that that freeway there are restaurant  
but one of our favorites is pappasito's  
no  
we love to go there  
you know it always kills me cause i don't like the the decorations so much  
it's too  
yeah  
but i love the food i love the food  
the food is great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i like to get that uh  
a shrimp it's a shrimp dish  
and i don't remember the name of it  
but it's rolled up into into something  
and oh it's really good  
yeah  
they are really good  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's very expensive  
yeah  
sometimes it's hard isn't it to keep a  
no  
sometimes mark and i that's my husband mark   um go to the august moon which is down there  
it's a chinese   uh restaurant with the [lions] in the front  
yeah  
and   oh it's pretty good as far as chinese  
but chinese isn't my favorite  
so  
but he likes it kind of  
so he heats us up a good fight  
now me i'm like i said seafood i'm  
i like that  
so  
um  
oh  
uh_huh  
is it  
oh how nice  
yeah  
i don't know that place  
was it  
um  
that's what we need isn't it  
no  
there's a lot of nice barbecue places here  
now i like barbecue okay texas barbecue  
it's good  
yeah  
now   they're real good  
they are good  
yeah  
free ice cream  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
just to die for exactly  
oh  
in heaven  
well my two littlest  
i just had a baby  
and she's six months  
and then my four year old he he still  
but my other older two they can  
so   they're they're kind of  
my littlest girl she's still like wants mcdonald's mcdonald's mcdonald's  
oh i'm telling you  
well it's kind of funny is sometimes we're like we all want different things  
and so there's a h avenue down here   and along are these fast food restaurants  
so we all get to go to our own little thing and drive through and get our own thing  
and then we go to park over there so we can all have our own  
that's on the nights we can't decide  
well five of them they're good   kids  
oh how nice  
it will be neat  
food's food  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you have to be careful if you go to a a restaurant that   that really is more adults you know   with the atmosphere and everything  
they  
if you're  
like we could probably take our oldest son and   and our oldest daughter  
and they know how to act  
i don't think i would chance it with my younger ones because they're just too much of a [distraction]  
and some restaurants are really trying to go for that atmosphere kind of thing  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
is it tia's not tia's um  
yeah  
i know which one it is  
and i can't think of it  
oh dear  
it was one of these you have bad experience and   say i don't think i'll come back here  
oh dear  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i've got  
one of my favorites were  
and i can't really think of any other um places  
yeah  
you have to watch it if you go out to eat  
that's true  
yeah  
there you go  
well good luck  
yeah  
maybe  
okay  
bye bye  
are you still there  
okay  
it worked out fine  
well we just ate out um had a big lunch actually because we both have been working late  
and we had italian um  
have you ever been to the olive garden  
yeah  
well do you really like italian food  
then don't  
then this will probably  
i mean this isn't really excellent italian food  
that sounds terrible to tell you to go somewhere where it's not that great  
but it's um  
you're not going to believe this  
but i have to tell you this if i don't because you're in plano  
but my um softball unit here is acting like he's dying of [tramane] poison  
it wasn't that bad  
actually it's very good it's all of these run adult males  
which i'm not italian  
no  
it's it's all the garlic bread and all the   salads you can eat with an entree  
so it wasn't too bad it really wasn't  
but i was more in the mood for french [toast] any way  
so   so i really like italian food though  
but do you have any favorite  
uh yes  
uh_huh  
oh you're kidding  
oh sure  
yeah  
you can usually get a variety of what you're looking for   like at [gatti's] or something like that  
uh six thirty five  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
pappasito's  
we went there on my birthday in march it's great  
too much like a bar naturally   and mexico  
yeah  
i know  
i've seen it  
the food is probably  
i'm not a i'm mexican food gourmet by any means  
but it's probably the best tasting  
i don't know would you classify that as tex mex  
um the shredded beef the type of   spices or sauces they use  
really  
uh_huh  
i've never had anything there that wasn't delicious  
even though you have to stand in line and all of that that's the only thing i don't like about it too  
it's a little bit with the meat market atmosphere you know  
even though we don't have kids we've been married long enough to um be around not be around that  
um i'm trying to think of what else we like to eat  
the one thing i notice is it's just um about dining out that you probably can relate to with four children and two of us getting ready to adopt i mean we find prohibited   just to cost any more  
i mean lunch today was eighteen dollars  
yeah  
i don't know how you feel about that  
but i think that some of it's over priced  
i'm glad i'm talking about food normally these conversations are  
yeah  
it is i don't know um  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
my husband likes that  
yeah  
off of arapaho down there  
yeah  
august moon  
uh_huh  
i don't like it at all usually  
so  
yeah  
i love seafood  
and i i like a lot of different ethnic foods  
i like japanese food  
there's a place on greenville called [sagar's]  
well we haven't been in years down near [presby]  
and i had a meeting down there today  
and i saw that  
and i said gee i remember that they offer you um authentic japanese feeding   or american or piano bar  
and i remember when we went   we were married with another couple that was just dating  
and um i had never had [saki]  
it made all raw fish tastes great  
but if you're looking for a very uh  
it's very pretty inside  
and the girls wear [kimonos] and   you know if you're ever looking for that  
um but what other kind of foods  
gee i don't know  
we went to a place called [grishman's] in greenville   which was really over priced  
uh_huh  
they had a great desert bar  
yeah  
yeah  
i like   barbecue  
have you ever been to i think it's called spring creek barbecue  
that's real good  
yeah  
there had  
oh my husband's going upstairs  
and he says free ice cream  
i didn't know they had that  
i can't talk i had chocolate [bavarian] tort for desert   today which i never eat at lunch  
and it was wonderful  
it was  
in fact if i could pick my um restaurants on how their coffee is and how their french bread is and the butter and the desert i would be   yes i would be in hog heaven  
and how are your kids at an age where they can contribute to what they want  
or do you still order for them  
oh congratulations  
uh_huh  
yeah  
everybody every child that i even know that eats vegetables um looked five years old still after a certain age realized that there is something called a mcdonald's  
it's really sad isn't it cause it's hard to get them away from junk then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know where that  
right  
that's all  
well that's all right as long as  
i was going to say because with six people how do you um  
cause with two we have a problem  
i mean i can't even imagine you know trying to um  
you sound like you're doing pretty well with four children  
that's the way the  
yeah  
well we're getting ready to  
i shouldn't say this on this conversation  
but it's just on my mind  
we're getting ready to go overseas to adopt  
yeah  
we're excited  
i think it will be worth it  
and somebody said to me in terms of  
this is food so i can say this  
but they you have to bring a formula  
and i said what's that  
they laughed  
and i said well you know i'm   thirty something  
and i think that that would make them drool any way  
you know i guess are you is it a little bit of [constricted] because a lot of restaurants don't take  
in terms of talking about restaurants i mean are a lot of restaurants how are they when you have children let alone three or four children  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that yuppie kind of crowd yeah  
yeah  
i just i just i've been in some places where they say they take children  
and then i've just seen where the wait [attendance] the wait staff is rude you know  
and that always just bothered me  
and then um on the other hand sometimes the children or the adults are themselves  
i don't know what other kind of restaurants  
really pappasito's we love um  
we went to one italian  
back on the italian we went to some place across from collin creek mall that absolutely [putrid] for italian food  
i can't remember the name of it  
it's on uh  
no  
that's mexican um right across from on the dillard's side there  
i can't  
yeah  
it's in the strip yeah  
and it had white [tablecloth]  
i think it was like paper where you could write on them or something with [crayons]  
it was just terrible  
i mean i was shocked  
i mean the dish was dirty um  
yeah  
where you felt like   like when you're in a bad part of italy or something  
um  
boy  
but other then that i don't know we we do our share of pizza eating too but more like go get it and carry it in cause we're too   cheap to pay the delivery  
i don't like strange people coming to my door um  
no  
except that this makes me fat  
no  
i'm just kidding  
yeah  
that's true  
but you can always blame it on having children  
no  
well i enjoyed talking to you  
and i guess you know   maybe we'll see you in the restaurants somewhere  
okay  
bye bye  
well let's see um  
i i like to go out to eat  
i really do  
but being from dallas um i think we have an average of six or seven restaurants that open and close every month  
and we we have a really high turn over rate  
oh yeah  
and and this is i mean there are streets just called restaurant rows  
and uh you can get everything here from um a very spicy indian meal to you know the favorite barbecue and and uh just anything your little hearts desires around here  
so here they have to entertain us to make us come back  
and i guess it's all one big game because you you just never run out of places to go  
you really don't  
yeah  
really  
and and we go to you know like an older part of town  
and we just notice how many oh well  
that [restaurant's] changed  
and oh gee there they've changed  
and oh we've got to go try that one you know  
and it's it's really  
you have the pick of the you know the crop here  
oh  
you know your your fourteen ounce steak with your potato and stuff  
um you can get that too  
no  
they've got everything here from the uh french room which is ultra ultra to um um dean [ferrings] uh uh restaurant which is the mansion on turtle creek  
i mean we've got beautiful places to go  
you can get as dressed up or you know just going to the local barbecue and just doing take out  
so you know i guess uh some of the foods that we really enjoy though are the um um like chinese  
and we're always searching around for chinese  
and now of course they've added the [taiwanese]  
and and um uh various you know any any part of the country you want to hit they have got it  
i mean vietnamese restaurant we went to you know last week it's great  
it's good stuff you  
but uh it's so it's very very mixed  
and uh you know i think if you like food like we do  
i i don't know if that happened before or after we moved here  
but um   you know you get a lot of uh great variety of things here  
so  
but if you were going to a restaurant say um where would you go  
right  
oh okay  
oh  
yeah  
right  
i see  
that's true too  
to another place  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
oh there you go  
yeah  
oh we're sort of in the middle of uh the extension of the cajun country too so we have um a lot of ambiance provided by you know the the bands and you know like you said jazz bands and things like that  
you know   you go out  
and you eat your crawfish and   [jambalaya] and stuff  
you know i i really don't like that stuff  
but my husband does  
he loves to cook it  
so   he and a friend of his get together  
and they cook i mean you know like for a bunch of people  
and and uh it's really  
in fact we do a lot more entertaining i think at home than we do going out  
so when we do go out we really you know want to be [wowed] by um the presentation so to speak  
and uh you know but but there are little places um  
and like i said some of our very favorites are the chinese restaurants just to  
and we do a lot of take out because everybody's so busy running around  
and it's the fastest thing to do  
and so we sort of enjoy the you know both parts because   uh_huh  
oh  
right  
yeah  
just to be abused by the [meanest] waitress   oh that's a talent  
um  
got to carry through with the abuse huh  
oh gee  
well that's funny  
i we just went to an italian restaurant this  
um just wonderful  
and they i mean  
it's like being in  
i mean i've never been to italy okay  
but it's just this big beautiful italian restaurant  
very um low key in terms of the people are from california you know  
so they have their own [adaptation] of what italian is i mean  
but it's it was a wonderful wonderful experience  
you know they have uh women there going to s m u going to uh southern methodist university and and graduating in opera or something like that  
and they are all singing [arias] to you and   and just walking around the restaurant singing  
and they make the food right there so it's display cooking  
and and uh then they have wine [casks] all over the place so you're lined up waiting in line to this place  
and you just take a drink of wine  
and you know they don't count that really  
they just  
oh really  
uh  
that's good  
i never really thought about that  
but uh a good turn over would be sort of nice  
course if you find a place you like and it works out that no one else likes it it would be sort of sad to see it go under  
are they big into ambiance down there  
or is it more like  
uh texas to me makes  
it seems like it would be portions would be the big thing  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh well we had uh we have a lot of favorites here uh in northern virginia  
and of course we've got d c to call on you know  
and there's all sorts of things down there  
one thing about d c is that there are a lot of traditional restaurants where you know it's the guy used to be the cook for the capitol  
and so he stays in the same restaurant for twenty years you know  
and he's got a big clientele  
and um so there are there are some hang outs where you can go if you want to see people  
you know it's it's sort of like hollywood in a way because there's there's favorite [haunts] for [southerners] and things like that  
um we don't hang around with them because usually it's you know ninety dollars a plate or something silly like that  
so uh but uh my wife has a a friend that runs one of the restaurants down there  
and we've been down there and had french cuisine  
and uh i don't know  
i don't particularly care for that sort of thing just the type of food just because i do like uh you know getting a meal  
and uh most french food always leaves me hungry for some reason  
i i don't know what they say about chinese  
i'm always hungry after a french meal uh  
and uh  
but the the atmosphere is just wonderful  
you do feel like you've gone out you know and done something   when you go to a french restaurant or a restaurant downtown  
well as out here you might have enjoyed the meal and go away feeling satisfied it's not so much a an event you know out in the suburbs when you go to a local restaurant  
and there's they're starting to get a little bit different um  
they're they're realizing that more of the the people with the money are coming out and living in the suburbs getting away from the city  
and so there are a couple jazz houses you know that have jazz bands playing while you're eating and stuff like that   which is kind of nice because  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we have two uh two very special places in northern virginia that people go to  
uh one's called captain [pell's]   which is a crab house   you know being so close to maryland  
maryland is you know a big place for crabs with the with the bay pretty much taking over most of maryland  
and um captain [pell's] is a place with the big huge wooden tables inside  
and people just go in there and just pig out and everything  
and then um the other place is called the vienna inn which is uh uh  
vienna is a suburb of d c also in virginia  
and uh that place is known for the the [rudest] waitresses in the country are are at the vienna inn  
and uh people go there to be abused  
i mean   you actually go in there to be abused by the by the waitresses and the [bartenders] and stuff  
and people come all over the country amazed at um the abuse they were [seized]  
and then it's on the honor system  
you pay totally on the honor system  
and so you know you tell them what you've eaten and what you drank or whatever  
and they figure out the bill for you  
and you're lucky if you get change  
usually they they take your change and throw you a couple of [mints] in your hand and say thanks you know  
because uh they  
yeah  
carry on with the abuse  
they say you need [mints]  
here guy you don't get any change you know  
oh wow  
are you ready  
she didn't announce that to you  
oh i see  
that's fine  
um i think uh that's [pleasurable] for all of us if we choose the right restaurant  
so what are your thoughts on dining out  
not for the price  
okay  
uh_huh  
the  
really  
okay  
uh_huh  
my word  
it's like mama in the back kitchen huh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
wow  
and where was that at near your  
where  
is it in dallas  
is it in the phone book  
do you know how to spell it  
okay  
[kalli] k a l l i  
okay  
uh_huh  
section  
yes  
uh_huh  
what about fast foods  
do you have a preference if you were going to   eat a fast food  
you do   like arby's  
see i don't like arby's  
no  
because they use everything they can and make this into pressed whatever  
they use the they use the insides of the animals heart and liver  
and they they form it  
and they make it look like roast beef  
and i said no  
thank you  
well that's not what i heard   from one of somebody that was supposed to know what they were talking about  
uh_huh  
really  
unless somebody is trying to [blackball] them  
uh_huh  
okay  
how about the health food uh restaurants well like this one  
but it's probably not advertised as such is it  
or  
uh_huh  
health food uh restaurants that  
well   well like um well i can't really think of any off the top of my head right now because there's so few and far between  
but they ought there are restaurants that cater to the people that are very health conscious you know as far as their cholesterol levels and their their fat content and you know the amount of calcium and so forth that are in each product  
and they list them  
now there's one restaurant that does that  
and it's called [rodolfo's]  
over on preston road and royal lane i believe  
and they have very good food over there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they do list um you know list the fat  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it was pretty reasonable  
i it was around ten dollars for lunch okay  
which is kind of high for lunch i guess  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh but   um you were served by [maitre] d's and and uh um men waiters  
well   if you're looking for a nice  
uh_huh  
well i guess if you were having if you were trying to impress somebody like taking somebody that you hadn't seen for a long time and wanted to show them a good restaurant   it's a special occasion   type thing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and now the red lobster i found is very nice at lunchtime  
because they're  
well they have lunch specials that  
you can't you can't beat that price uh if you went to a cafeteria  
well i had the   i had a broiled chicken breast  
and it was excellent  
it was a marinated broiled chicken breast  
and it was  
oh it was  
well i've never had catfish either in a restaurant because i'm from the north  
and that was a no no  
and i haven't gotten over that from the north  
i know they say that   that is  
but i'm   but they've got all these [caution] signs now on fish  
and so i kind of stay  
because of all the pollution in the lakes and the   everywhere i mean there isn't any safe [haven] anymore for fish  
and especially uh in wisconsin and michigan they say no buying of our fish  
i  
well yeah  
so i am  
and the the best brand of chicken to buy is the uh [pilgrim] pride because they don't use all these hormones to remote uh [unnatural] growth in their products  
so i mean we have to be on the lookout if we want to stay healthy  
so i'm i you know i  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[corrode]  
huh  
uh_huh  
well i'd like to get ahold of some engineers and knock their heads together if it would do any good  
oh dear  
wow  
sure  
yeah  
that's right  
everything we eat  
everything   everything we eat should have a label on it  
yeah  
well you know  
well becky you know even if you lived off your own land that you would have to put [caution] signs  
uh_huh  
oh i didn't i didn't quite hear all of it  
right  
well i i really choose restaurants more for the quality of food than anything else  
well a little bit   for the price  
but uh i think that as far as quality of food goes the some of the most expensive places i've been   had the the really the   the worst quality of food  
really  
um a lot of places that even don't look don't look like much  
some of the some of the best food i have ever had was out of a outside or inside of a place that we drove up  
and i was like i'm not eating in there  
are you nuts  
and uh we went in  
and it was the it was the most wonderful food  
yeah  
i'm serious  
um a lot of uh one place that we went just recently   uh was to [atchafalaya]  
no  
that's not right  
that's not right  
that's not right  
what's the name of that restaurant  
where at  
the [hari] [krishna]  
oh kalachandji's  
kalachandji's  
it's all vegetarian  
and it it was just fabulous  
i mean my husband was aghast because i ate turnip greens and liked it  
um kalachandji's  
it's uh it's a [hari] [krishna] run restaurant  
yes  
uh i think so  
it should be  
uh it starts with a k  
so   k a l a i think c h a n d  
that should get you close enough to to be able to find it  
i think it's uh probably listed in the restaurants you know  
but it's uh it's just fabulous food  
well we like arby's   as far as   fast food goes  
oh really  
why  
oh no  
no  
no  
someone has been lying to you  
what they use is roast beef  
that's what  
oh my goodness  
i'm surprised  
my dad worked for arby's for several years  
yeah  
well that's happened before  
but we like good uh we're we like mexican food  
and stuff like that  
and so um  
a health food  
like like  
name one  
i'm not sure what you're talking about  
huh  
i don't guess i've ever been to anything like that  
so   i really don't have anything to compare it to  
it would be good i think  
uh i don't know how expensive they are  
it sounds like that it would probably  
for one person  
oh  
a bit  
yeah  
i i won't really be interested in going to in going there   because   i feel like i'm i'm paying you know five dollars for the food probably and five dollars for something that i could get along quite well without  
yeah  
maybe   maybe that  
yeah  
yeah  
i could see that   then maybe  
yeah  
i like the   the seafood that they when they had it you know the broiled  
yeah  
probably that's true  
but i know a lot of their a lot of their specials sometimes are fried things   that you can't really get away from the fried  
now why would you go to a seafood restaurant to eat chicken  
that's one of my husband's pet peeves  
he doesn't understand why somebody would go to a seafood place and eat either chicken or steak you know  
oh really  
oh catfish is wonderful  
oh really  
really  
why  
oh  
huh  
that's too bad   because i'm probably not going to stop eating it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
oh on one hand i see that  
and on the other hand uh my older sister   remembers when uh at one point they were taking radioactive wastes   and storing them in tin barrels which i guess   had a half life of oh five years if they sit empty on dry land  
so they're putting radioactive waste in it which reduces it dramatically  
and then they take these things that will rust  
and they throw them in the ocean which is going to [speedup] the process even more  
oh  
and then they wouldn't think  
they were floating around  
so they shot holes in them to sink them  
and this is before i was born  
so i mean we're taking thirty years ago   this happened  
and and who's you know the tuna is radioactive   to a certain extent  
you can't get away from it  
so i think   to some point  
yeah  
you know so there's you know there's some things i think we can we you know we can't avoid for health purposes and some things that we just need to like you know  
this is not in my control  
so i'm either going to be i'm either going to starve to death  
or i'm going to get over it and just go ahead and eat as [healthily] as i possibly can you know  
okay  
well i guess i enjoy eating out um uh here and there  
or it's it's a good change and a good change from cooking and eating at home  
and i guess i like a variety of a variety of restaurants  
uh sometimes it's fun to go out and just have a hamburger and french fries and and sort of a hamburger and french fry meal  
and sometimes it's i enjoy it's i enjoy going out having a formal meal  
and uh sometimes it's nice to go out and have a salad  
something you know  
well a variety  
i i like to go sometimes without them  
and   sometimes i sometimes it's okay to take them along  
so  
sometimes i think we pay the baby sitter as much as paying for their dinner   or lunches  
so uh it just you know it just varies  
we do a mix  
sometimes it's really nice to be able to go out and eat with just my husband  
and it wouldn't even really matter which restaurant it was just to you know have a moment of peace and quiet without   little ones at the table  
so uh i guess   i guess actually on those those times uh we even there are times i even say oh please don't sit us next to a table with other children  
this is our night out  
so but uh anyway where do you like to eat  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
oh which one do you like  
oh okay  
well it's been a long time since we've been in there  
but uh but it's good  
there's an italian restaurant over over by the mall over by uh plano parkway there  

oh is it [campari's] or something  
well it's good  
i haven't my husband had been in there several times  
and we went in there actually we went in there for lunch one day  
and uh their pastas were great  
you're brave  
oh god  
right  
no  
i don't think so  
oh well even though traditional it can backfire  
uh well my husband's kind of the he he's the ethnic fan  
so he's  
i don't know  
you know what we read we read the uh d magazine  
we we check that and uh the friday section in the newspaper   the pull out section there  
they often do ratings of restaurants  
so  
uh we've uh we've usually we often save those and ventured out on from there uh just for something that had a high rating  
okay  
that's   that's right  
oh good  
oh good  
oh oh yeah  
we i guess we we use the coupons too  
that's true  
that's true  
oh right  
right  
well i think that it's just that's  
sometimes i think going out to eat it's it's sort of a recreation  
so uh just a just a change of pace   from uh eating at home  
so uh   anyway i guess uh as far as as far as service when we go out   gosh it's nice it's nice to have someone come and wait the table   and clear the table and  
yeah  
and do the dishes  
and uh actually it's kind of nice to you know  
i always  
uh a waitress or waiter that waits the table it's nice that they're [attentive]  
but it's not nice when they're too [attentive]  
so uh we've had experience with that too  
so  
oh yeah  
well how we  
it may it may help their tip may not huh  
gosh i guess just in plano i plano i like to go to souper salads  
uh chili's chili's is always fine  
i guess if we go to dallas into dallas we like uh the [routh] is it [routh] street cafe  
well   well you would like it  
you'd like it especially it you're adventuresome  
it just we've we've taken people there several times  
and uh they have a good they have a good choice of things that are very different sounding  
i guess it's whether you call it southwestern  
but uh-oh we had venison   venison chili one time which was absolutely wonderful  
and then i guess it must be seasonal  
and we've been back  
oh i guess it's in the winter season  
well they've never had it   when we've been back  
so but uh well you ought to try that  
it's it's it's very good  
no  
oh that's good  
yes  
i've been there  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
do you usually go out uh with the children or without them  
right  
yes  
yes  
yes  
well  
uh well uh we don't have any children  
so uh we tend to   like to try all sorts of different things  
and uh we're very attracted to exotic food  
and uh we like indian food and thai cuisine and uh sort of gourmet mexican and uh things like that as well as tex mex and italian and uh chinese and things and and things of that sort  
now yes  
of course we like to occasionally go out and get down and dirty with barbecue or hamburgers   or something like that too  
and uh we probably go out one to two times a week  
and uh uh we're pretty much [regulars] at an italian local italian restaurant  
[momo's]  
uh_huh  
i've heard about it  
i haven't been in there  
uh_huh  
that's one of the things a good pasta means a lot to me  
i i like different kinds of food  
so when we go out i'm always looking for something other than the standard menu even if   it's a mexican restaurant like something other than uh you know the standard [tacos] enchiladas [tamales] and   fajitas now  
yes  
yes  
and once in a while things backfire  
i mean we've gone for [romanian] food and lebanese food and things like that  
and i'm not fond of some of those things  
but we'll try we'll try anything  
ethiopian we've had ethiopian and uh not in plano of course  
but we really we really do enjoy going out  
and uh and um i'm pretty adventurous in cooking too which also occasionally [backfires]  
yeah  
i think we're supposed to say what will bring us back to a restaurant or or what attracts us to a restaurant  
how do you usually find a a new restaurant  
uh_huh  
so do we  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
we have found uh a number of restaurants either through d and the   friday paper and sometimes the the observer which my husband usually picks up   and also through coupons  
when a new restaurant opens up they usually send out coupons  
and you know when they say you know buy one get one free   it's hard to resist  
so we'll go in  
and very often we'll   find a place that we like  
and we'll stick with it  
once they give they no longer give coupons we'll we'll uh we'll stay there  
but we've found probably half of our sort of regular restaurants through coupons   and the other half through the through the newspaper reviews  
i mean it's wonderful particularly if you have more than two people and you've got say four or something like that  
it's very expensive to go out to eat  
so yeah  
that that is really one of our  
it's almost a hobby with us  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh absolutely  
and do the dishes  
oh yes  
my sister who also lives here in dallas uh tends to uh chat with waiters and waitresses and become their best friends during the course of dinner which drives me absolutely [batty]  
but  
what's your favorite restaurant  
uh_huh  
sure  
you know we've never been there  
and that's supposed to be wonderful  
um  
uh_huh  
ooh  
uh_huh  
i would probably like that  
one or two times in my life i've ever had venison i've loved it  
but you know just it's just not  
i don't know people who hunt  
so  
uh  
that's that's supposed to be a wonderful place  
uh uh uh here in plano well we tend to go to [momo's] a fairly often  
and uh sometimes we'll go you know  
we we also go to chili's and uh [colter's] bar b q  
and and uh we go to there is a little thai place that's over on park that we go to  
my husband particularly likes that  
we go into dallas   a lot and because we're both were from the richardson north dallas area up until fairly recently  
and uh we'll go down to uh blue mesa grill mexican food  
and  
okay  

no um  
we don't although we enjoy it  
um we do it more when we have company come  
um what about you  
i've heard of that  
but i haven't been there  
um where   about is that  
oh okay  
i i've been to cafe pacific  
right  
yes  
uh  
before we moved to   the area my brother uh lived in dallas for a number of years  
and we came up one time when my father was visiting  
and   we all ate there  
and oh their seafood was wonderful  
now where is the atlantic cafe  
oh okay  
no um  
but i've heard that's really good too  
and  
oh  
oh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
you know right away what you want  
well we really enjoy prime rib too  
and uh actually the the steak and ale out here   uh we've gone to uh  
my in laws also enjoy prime rib when they've   had some of their specials on sunday monday or tuesday night  
and uh the time we went the prime rib was really good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i've heard about that too  
but no  
we've uh i guess we eat out even less than i realize  
oh  
yeah  
yes  
i'd i had heard that too um  
have you been to the little uh not for prime rib but the cafe de france um right here   on central expressway   oh okay  
yes uh  
primarily lunch well and breakfast sometimes  
but uh during the week they often have a a limited menu choice but uh very reasonable complete dinners for six ninety nine that included   the soup or salad   entrees and [accompaniments] and dessert  
and uh the  
my husband and i like veal uh   a lot  
and their veal dishes have been good  
we've tried different ones when they've had them as one of the  
uh_huh  

i  
yes  
no  
right  
and  
i haven't either uh  
one place  
and i've only been there for lunch  
but uh i went with a friend  
and we met her husband um down on greenville  
down near the highway twelve area is [gershwin's]  
oh i we just  
it was  
and we had the   uh we both enjoy mushroom soup  
and linda had told me they had the best mushroom soup  
and they did  
it was wonderful  
but uh and we just had soup and salad so we could make room for the dessert   which was a chocolate sack  
i don't know if you tried  
but   or  
yes  
it yes   it had a sponge cake   and whip cream  
and it had strawberries [kiwis] and [raspberries]   in a raspberry uh [puree]  
and   and we shared one the three of us  
and it was plenty because it was very rich  
but uh   i wished i'd had a camera  
it was beautiful  
uh  
oh  
oh  
yes  
yeah  
oh  
it sounds wonderful  
well that's uh one of the things that i do enjoy when you get a good restaurant  
uh i love fresh berries  
and their their fruits are always exceptional  
i don't i'm know  
they must have a special source for getting them because even at the farmer's market uh   you can't find them   like that  
and  
uh_huh  
i would too  
because   well because we don't go out very often  
when we do go out um in a way it's like a little mini vacation i guess  
and uh it is it's a whole experience  
of course you want the food to be good  
but the atmosphere and service i think are important uh   too  
yeah  
um that reminded me of a place for lunch that's a little off the beaten track  
but it is wonderful  
it's called cafe max  
and it's at plano road and campbell  
they have the most wonderful salads  
they do what they call a salad [sampler] which easily could feed two or three  
hi nancy  
well do you do a lot of dining out  
uh_huh  
well we do some dining out  
um i i do a lot of cooking  
so um mostly like when we go out you know it's my husband and i  
i we don't go out too often as a family um unless it's like a fast food kind of thing  
but um but we do enjoy dining out  
one of our favorite places here in in the dallas area is atlantic cafe  
i don't know if you have you ever been there  
um well actually there's the atlantic cafe and cafe pacific and uh  
have you  
now that's down in uh highland park  
it's highland park village  
did you like it  
oh i love it  
uh_huh  
oh it is it's fabulous  
it really is a great place  
atlantic cafe is down on i believe it's on mckinney  
um and originally the two the the guy who owns the cafe pacific and the guy who owns the atlantic cafe were partners in the atlantic cafe  
and then they they separated  
and the guy started cafe pacific  
and i loved them both  
i really do  
i think they're wonderful  
that's our favorite  
you know what we'd really like if if we just have a a casual evening is houston's  
have you been there  
it's wonderful  
the only thing is you have to wait  
you have you have to expect to wait at least an hour  
so you have to go knowing you're going to be sitting there there for an hour waiting to get in  
and as long as you know that it's okay  
but they have i think one just about the best prime rib   um anywhere   in the area  
i love it  
and my husband really likes their ribs  
so it's hysterical  
we go in  
and we sit there for an hour waiting to get in  
and then we get there  
and we don't even look at the menu  
i know right away what we what we want  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
was it  
really  
i've i've i've been there for like you know lunch  
but i've never been there for dinner  
and it was good  
yeah  
oh that's great  
that's   great  
another nice place for for prime rib is baby [doe's]  
[maxwell's] nice  
have you been there  
and i didn't think we ate out very often  
see  
baby [doe's] is nice  
and one place i'd never been that i would really like to go to uh is lawry's  
i've heard that's real good   lawry's prime rib  
i've i've never been there  
but i've heard it's real good  
yes  
yes  
actually they have one in richardson that i've been to  
uh they have real nice lunches  
have you have you been there for lunch  
or  
yeah  
really  
really  
uh_huh  
the specials  
have you ever been to [biffin's]  
i keep hearing about it  
i keep hearing the advertisements of it  
and and they keep saying you know oh it's wonderful it's wonderful  
i have not been over there  
and i was thinking you know it's supposed to be a family place over near plano super bowl  
and uh i've i've not been there  
i've been there  
that was nice  
oh  
i've heard of it  
where where it's made  
it's like it's like a  
it's all chocolate like made like a paper bag  
and it's filled with what whip cream   and and strawberries and something  
yeah  
oh  
oh  
oh  
oh i bet it was  
i bet it was  
the last time we went to cafe pacific it was father's day  
and   we took another friend with us  
and uh for dessert we thought we had just stuffed ourselves  
and so we had they had uh like a berry [assortment]  
it was it was [raspberries]   and blueberries and and strawberries on a plate with like a custard on the bottom  
and you know they did like the raspberry [puree] just kind of like in a in a decoration on the  
you know how they do the plates real fancy with the decorations and then   piled the berries and [shaved] chocolate on top of it  
and it was outstanding  
it was really really relatively simple  
but oh it was good  
it was really good  
you can't find them  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i'm originally from connecticut  
and uh i was home a few years ago  
and my sister and brother in law were going to take us out for dinner  
and uh i was really amazed you know  
the the restaurants up there were kind of [quaint]  
you know they were real real pretty  
but they [lacked] the service  
and they [lacked] the the just the i don't know  
the restaurants down here seem like they have uh  
i guess there's so much competition that they really have to be good  
and i thought i would really miss that  
uh_huh  
and you know in order to survive in this area i think they have to be good  
because the ones that aren't so good don't just don't make it  
oh really  
all right this is easy for me since i  
yeah  
well i travel  
i do about forty percent of my time is on the road  
i eat a lot of meals out  
well i'm also married  
and my wife is an a one cook  
but she enjoys eating out  
so i have to share it with her  
and uh actually it's very easy for me because i i have a make it a practice when i am out  
i eat differently than what i could eat at home or around here  
so i look for just about anything  
and it's it's uh it's a lot of fun  
i don't have to worry really worry too much about price considerations because i you know  
oh sure  
yeah  
and it's it's really great  
i i   i like different types of food  
uh-oh you okay you name it  
let's see  
you've got one down in uh down near uh addison  
uh there's two restaurants that i particularly like that i every time i get into texas or i get into atlanta georgia i make sure i go  
and that's houston's  
yep  
okay  
it's it's great  
there's a a restaurant in um right outside of reading pennsylvania it's called [alfredo's]   that does not look like a restaurant that you would really want to recommend to a lot of people  
but it is fantastic  
uh there's a restaurant and i don't recall the name of it uh in uh panama city  
of course not too many people want to rush back to panama city uh panama the country uh panama  
no  
this is the country   this is the country panama all right  
and uh but i have gotten to quite a few  
and i go to canada and get quite a few restaurants up there  
i you know and i know the locations  
and i know the places  
but i lot of times i don't remember the names  
i'd have to go back through some expense reports  
but particularly down in your area i'm looking for some some more restaurants  
so i you know i don't know what's what's down there   the ones out in addison  
not particularly  
that's one of the few  
why which one were you going to recommend  
uh_huh  
right  
okay  
i have a  
okay  
let  
i'm i'm writing it down  
okay  
i've been there  
okay  
i've been there  
um one down there is the uh i think it's an old [schoolhouse]  
well i like the food  
but i don't care for the [clowning] around  
oh really  
oh i've had  
that's it  
that's it  
i've had excellent food there  
true  
true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
all right  
well that's great  
uh no  
italian is fine  
i make it a habit of always going out to pasta [oggi's] which is right down there in  
oh yeah  
all right  
really  
uh_huh  
good  
well this is great  
this is going to give me   some more places to go  
okay  
fine  
i guess our time's about up  
so  
uh well they don't always  
yeah  
i   they've been doing that when uh the [circuits] are busy  
and other than that they you know leave you go about five minutes  
and then that that's about it  
i guess that's what they need for their machines to get everything down pat  
so  
it was a pleasure talking to you  
okay  
you bet  
bye bye  
and me too because i eat out a lot  
so you eat all your meals out  
sure  
i was going to ask you could you go to you know nice places  
and  
so where are your what are the places you know memorable places you've eaten  
oh houston's  
uh_huh  
it's a great place  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
because i was thinking  
well i i grew up in panama city  
i get it  
right  
uh_huh  
do you like mexican  
do you like mexican food  
oh  
well i mean there's so many places here you know  
there's just it's just lots of good mexican restaurants here  
but in the addison well about everything that you could want in dallas is in the addison area anyway  
i mean now there's a new italian place [sfuzi]  
that has a great i've not been there but it has a great reputation as one of the best restaurants in dallas  
and now there's one in addison  
it's f s it's s f u z i  
and it's on it's in addison  
and it's a great place  
also a great place that they have like cajun food is [copelands]  
now i really like [copelands]  
oh the yeah the i know  
no  
i don't like that place  
see uh uh  
yeah  
i i   when i went i thought the food was not good  
magic time machine is the place you're thinking of  
see i when i went i thought  
the people drove me crazy   first of all  
but then i just thought the food was over priced for what it was  
do you like like southwestern  
well now there's a good place in addison too called blue mesa grill   that's on belt line that's close to houston's as a matter of fact  
and um it's great  
i mean their they have i think  
sometimes i've been when i thought well it wasn't as good  
but i went there recently  
and i thought well this really is good  
so that's that's a very good place to eat the blue mesa grill  
and um  
a whole new   dining experience  
well they haven't beeped us have they  
oh i thought sometimes they say you know   this is three minutes or whatever  
oh okay  
okay  
well thanks for calling   for helping us out  
bye bye  
okay  
where do you enjoy dining out  
yes  
do you have children  
uh  
yeah  
that makes a difference doesn't it  
what area of the country do you live in  
yes  
i am too  
but  
i did too  
i'm from the dayton area  
oh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yes  
when we travel we look for wendy's because we have kids  
and my husband and i like getting the salads or the lighter meals  
and then that way they can get their [burgers] and fries  
and we can have a salad bar  
so sometimes we drive for a couple hundred miles until we find a wendy's   because it's all either mcdonald's or dairy [queens]  
right  
that's right  
i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
well what are some of your your favorite inexpensive places  
uh_huh  
oh we are little [caesar] fans here  
that's where we always go  
yes  
we like [grandy's] too  
oh  
where do you go if you like to have a nice meal out or a big meal  
where do you go for steaks  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
you ever been to houston's on belt line  
that's where we go to get steaks  
they have a [teriyaki] steak there  
and when we have something to celebrate we head to houston's  
they don't take reservations  
and you wind up waiting about an hour  
but the food is good  
and they've got a nice patio area that you can wait and get something to drink unless you get there at five o'clock  
then you can go right through  
but they have real good signature salads there and nice steaks  
so that's our nice place to go  
we don't usually take the kids when we go there  
yeah  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
that's the way with my husband  
he's gone during the week and likes to eat at home on the weekends  
and i've been eating at home all week long with the kids and would like to go out somewhere  
so we have a conflict of interests on the weekend  
right  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
yep  
oh i generally go to the quickie places just because they're cheap  
uh we have four  
but most of them are gone now  
so there there might be  
but we were taking you know uh four five and six people out  
yes  
i'm in texas  
and we we lived in ohio prior to this  
uh we were up near cleveland  
yeah  
uh but i look for service even at the quickie places   type things  
uh i don't like to go to the drive [thrus] because sometimes they get your order wrong  
and then you're stuck  
and it's a pain to have to stand there and see what it is before you leave  
so i really don't like the drive [thrus] that much  
i i like to go and eat there  
but i would say service uh atmosphere and whether the food is good  
and on going out i like steaks  
so we try to hit those places when we can  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh yeah  
and in in in the countries unless it's a large city i guess dairy queen and wal mart are their main  
that's what you find  
right  
my husband likes uh dairy [queens]  
he likes their milk [shakes] and their chili cheese   dogs i guess  
so he's a fan of of dairy queen  
and and we'll go even in town here at times just as a a change although   i'm not that excited about it  
but we've eat we eat out so much it's gotten so i don't like to really eat any place  
but yet i hate to cook food at home  
so that might be why i look for inexpensive places   just because we're eating out probably five nights a week   maybe  
or we eat junk food at home  
uh now my  
oh we'll go to them all  
we sort of take turns  
and we uh  
i sort of favor the ones  
if i have a coupon we can go there  
and if not we can't because it's cheaper  
so mine is monetarily i guess strongly monetarily based  
uh we'll go get pizza and uh at little caesar's although the kids prefer domino's  
right  
but it's just a lot cheaper than than domino's  
so that's  
we go to [grandy's] quite a bit i would say  
mcdonald's uh we've sort of been off of that for a while  
and no particular reason  
and i  
maybe we avoided wendy's the last few years because our daughter worked there  
and she never wanted us to show up there  
so i don't we don't go there that much  
a nice meal oh  
it's usually when we're out of town  
and i'll order steak or steak and lobster combined  
so it's really not in town  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
but well we don't go out that much  
i well i guess we do go out without kids  
we're usually picking things up quickly  
though   we just don't dwell on food too much  
and uh with my husband traveling he can get all he needs   of that during the week going to those places  
so it doesn't really matter to him  
he'd probably just like to stay home  
well i think i i never have liked to cook food  
but i think it all began eating out when we had uh the boys in in different uh baseball   on baseball  
it was mainly baseball teams  
and my husband would coach  
so we were never home at the same time  
i'm not one that's going to fix you know the meal at two o'clock in the afternoon so they can eat it all day whenever   they're there  
if there not there in between five and six well then i guess we don't eat today  
or you go you know   you fend for yourself  
you go somewhere else  
so that you know that really [snowballed] when we got down here when i started to sub make money i went oh well i'll just sub to  
okay  
i'll just go with you first  
what kind of   eating out do you enjoy  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you go like home cooking like black eyed pea and that kind of thing or   cafeteria  
me too  
uh_huh  
mexican  
uh_huh  
uh we do too  
we do the same  
what are your favorite places  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well we go we've gone to august moon  
and we think that was real good  
but our favorite when you have a little more to spend is to go to taiwan or may dragon  
and those are excellent  
they're really a nice place you could take someone to eat  
it's not the the [rinky] chinese decorations  
but it's a very elegant nice place to eat  
we go very very often we go out for fajitas  
that's  
my husband has just gotten stuck  
and we go to on the border   and lots of places that have uh i think  
and some of those and get fajitas  
and he'll just eat chips until we've got three or four baskets coming back  
and then uh last weekend we went out for italian also  
and for some reason the cooler weather makes me tend to want to go eat lasagna and garlic bread  
so we went to el [sorrento]  
it was fun  
you know what  
this is that's real funny you said that because we were coming back sunday on central from church  
and bob pointed to it  
and he said i keep hearing good things about that place  
we're going to have to go  
that's what he  

in fact you're about the third or fourth person in the last month that said that  
so i guess we'll have to do it  
that's what it that's what  
d magazine said that  
it said there was always a line  
but that's probably i mean that's a good that's a good sign  
yes  
we did  
now my kids didn't like it because they just wanted to get plain old spaghetti   or lasagna  
and most of those things were a little more northern italy  
and they like just the traditional  
they're not very  
yes  
they are  
exactly  
exactly  
the place of the seventies  
uh_huh  
yeah  
most kids do  

do you ever go for steak just a steak and potato and salad bar that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'm i'm real curious to try this one that has such commercials the uh that [del] lincoln  
and oh what is that guy's name  
they do those real corny commercials  
it's uh over there's one over there in addison  
i can't remember his name  
anyhow it's some  
yeah  
it's some famous steak place over in addison  
there's a there's a second one downtown  
and they have these really corny radio commercials  
but but they're steak is supposed to be wonderful  
so i i had not tried that  
my husband was saying that up north they have such nice restaurants where you can go after a theater or after the movie  
and it seems like i've been  
we found those one time  
and then they discontinued  
it was over in addison  
and then they uh closed up  
so most of these places are pretty much just uh theme restaurants   around here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's exactly true  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
that's right  
that's  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
i had a friend who was taken to lawry's downtown   for prime rib  
and i haven't been  
we usually don't go for beef really anymore  
where  
we've gotten so used to doing chicken and things at home that that's that's usually the way we'll go   if we're not going lasagna  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
well i understand  
that's right  
and save you some money too  
well  
now what is your what's your child's favorite place to eat  
oh yeah  
they're easy  
yeah  
well mine enjoy that too  
they like to go pretty much where we like to go  
and they'll  
and then our favorite thing on fridays we generally order pizza in  
so   not pizza inn but pizza to our house  
so we've done  
well um is there anything else you'd like to discuss about it  
i think we've i think it's come to an eye conclusion  
so i'll talk with you later  
thank you  
bye bye  
okay  
well i like dining out  
of course it means that i don't have to cook  
but um i'm a divorced woman  
i have one child  
and you know when when we [dine] out we go to like medium priced restaurants  
i don't i don't particularly  
i think it's sort of a waste of money to go real to a real high priced restaurant  
um   not really  
we go more for the uh chinese   and italian   and stuff like that mexican stuff   that i can't cook  
yeah  
um well i like chinese food  
um there's a little place down on what is that coit road um chinese pavilion or something   that is really good  
and i like it  
and um i do i do like chinese buffets  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

yeah  
have you ever um   tried pappasito's  
oh it is delicious  
uh_huh  
it's  
you always stand in line when you go  
but it's worth the wait  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and have you ever tried um the macaroni grill up on  
uh_huh  
right  
they're the spaghetti warehouse type  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
but my little girl likes uh spaghetti warehouse   real well  
it's real entertaining for her  
um not really  
that's a steak is something that i cook at home   you know that you grill out  
and i really don't particularly um  
huh  
steak  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yes  
right  
i think that's what   goes you know really goes right now in the in the dallas area  
of course you know down next to downtown up around mckinney and everything   you know there's just a there's a different class   of restaurants up there   that i can't even touch  
you know it would probably take my whole paycheck just to go in and   have one meal   up there  
but um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
when when i go out it's it's normally to get um some specialty type of food  
besides you know because chicken and   steaks and everything i grill at home  
and and really it's they're a lot better than what i get in the restaurant  
that's right  
saves you a little bit money  
um favorite place  
uh she has a lot  
taco bell  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
not that i know of  
uh_huh  
thank you  
bye bye  
oh i guess uh this is a a topic near and dear to my heart   since i am a am a healthy eater  
well i'm not uh i  
there really isn't any kind of particular food that i i don't don't like really  
and i like a good italian restaurant   or a good uh uh  
especially like good prime rib  
so if it's uh nice to get out and find a good restaurant like that  
and i live here in uh rome new york  
and there are a lot of good restaurants around here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
oh no  
i'm in upstate new york  
and it's actually very inexpensive  
i  
there's a   there's a place um half a mile from me here that uh has uh fantastic prime rib for oh eleven dollars   for a whole meal you know   a potato and salad and soup and the whole whole nine yards  
so that  
right  
uh i was going to this place up the street from me is the best i've ever had  
so   i'll have to go there when i get to   get to dallas  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
i'm not into the the don't do the the raw raw fish like that  
but i do like uh like a seafood bar like a raw raw bar like oysters and things like that uh  
that they uh  
i go on  
i'm an officer in the air force and travel quite a bit on business  
so i uh find myself down in [melbourne] florida about once once a month once every two months or so   and uh go and hit the the [oyster] bars down there quite a bit  
but i love that  
yeah  
and um and uh maryland's great  
you get the crabs  
it's like i can't go anywhere where i   where i don't enjoy myself  
so  
that's true  
yeah  
well uh it's really strange that that that seafood is so expensive because when you in reality uh uh i say that uh the [oceans] have the greatest resource of food   on the planet  
and yet we haven't as human beings haven't figured out a way to harvest it economically  
so we managed to uh figure out how to get at just about everything else but uh   but not uh not seafood  
yeah  
yeah  
i like uh i make a a wicked chili  
and around here the big spicy thing is like uh buffalo wings  
and so uh it people they you know  
you go out to get the chicken wings  
and those are really hot   and the hotter the better  
right  
sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
my generally my my [scalp] will start  
i can feel just the top of my [scalp] getting hot   the weirdest weirdest [sensation]   almost like a [tingling]  
but uh i don't know  
but uh  
yeah  
well there isn't isn't too much in the way of restaurants that i don't like  
things that are kind of [oddball] like uh thai cuisine  
i never been really fond of that stuff  
you talk about spicy  
that'll that'll literally blow your head off  
it's so hot  
and uh and i can handle just about any kind of food without uh um  
well but that that stuff is goes one notch beyond uh   my tolerances  
so although i guess on this topic are to talk about the uh service in a restaurant is always nice though too  
that's one thing  
what's that  
yeah  
well i find that lately that so many people are working you know working [waitressing] jobs or waiter  
well i i try to be as well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you're in new york  
i was going to  
there's a place if you ever make it to dallas   they have the best prime rib  
it's called lawry's like lawry's seasoning salt  
and it is absolutely wonderful  
and uh we were there a few months ago  
and it i mean it's kind of pricey  
well from new york it probably doesn't matter  
but  
oh is it okay  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think the cheapest there probably starts at eighteen  
and it includes you know salad and rolls and oh some other stuff  
but   it is absolutely wonderful  
it's the best i have ever had  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
well we like uh lots of people down here like mexican food  
so um that's  
i i think italian and mexican food are probably my favorites  
but um i'm not into [sushi] or any of that kind of stuff  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
fresh seafood down there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
seafood seems to be a a little bit more expensive than than other types of food  
but it sure is good  
and it's supposed to be good for you  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
do you like spicy foods  
or  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well we uh we like spicy food down here especially uh the hot sauce picante sauce or salsa   whatever you all call it  
and uh we we sure go through a lot of that  
but i like it hot  
but i don't like it real hot   because then my nose starts running  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
and the price   and the price   make you want to come back  
uh [kate] what kind of uh where do you like to eat out  
yes  
do you  
have you tried mother [mesquites]  
that's at skillman and l b j  
there is  
it's where skillman uh [curves] into forest lane  
and it's real good mexican food  
another real good one is uh [rafael's] down on mckinney avenue  
they're both very good  
uh_huh  
chains  
uh_huh  
oh el chico's or el [fenix]   one  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i like tia's better than i do el chico's or el [fenix]  
uh much better  
uh mother [mesquite's] is one of our favorites  
but then fajitas are one of my uh  
i like it better than just about anything  
and they make very good fajitas there   in their own uh homemade flour tortillas that are just absolutely wonderful  
especially with butter and honey on them  
yes  
yes  
so do i  
well what else do you like  
uh_huh  
yes  
now i haven't eaten there  
have you eaten there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i we like uh uh for the cajun the spicy we like [atchafalaya's] out on belt line in addison  
and it's a good restaurant  
and fish for one of the best fish restaurants in town is either vincent's   there in plano   or uh i believe it's a rusty [scupper] over on uh uh dallas parkway   in addison which is absolutely wonderful  
the service is great  
they have every kind of fish that you could imagine you'd want  
and the the atmosphere is wonderful too  
if you want a really special night out and fish food   that's a good place to go  
fast food well i can understand that  
i can remember when our children were small  
we lived in the chicago area at the time  
and we had a lot of mcdonalds   when they were first coming out  
i can't look a mcdonalds in the face now  
well taco [bueno's] good  
and cheap  
and cheap  
yes  
yes  
yes  
sounds like my grandchildren  
oh yes  
well it's just my husband and i  
and it's either t v dinners at home or we go out to eat  
and i would much rather go out to eat than t v dinners  
oh no  
no  
i like breakfast out  
i like the [ihop] there in plano  
oh  
oh now that's surprising   because normally they're just they're real good  
i like because they they're even if they're crowded they're fast service you know  
um don't have to wait forever for a table  
and we also like owens uh   country  
yeah  
yeah  
we think it's good  
uh_huh  
it's good  
yes  
yes  
and we like [applebee's]  
yeah  
it it's fun  
i like your up there in plano that uh country steak house  
have you tried it  
we like it because it's fairly reasonable  
and they have we go for the salad bar  
well we uh we really like the mexican food you know here in texas  
and uh so we try and go around to different mexican restaurants trying them out  
and so uh tia's is probably our favorite uh restaurant there  
and i think they have one of the best services that uh that we really like it  
no  
where's that at  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
really  
oh that uh  
no  
we haven't explored uh you know too many places  
um you know lot of the big name brand i guess uh chains  
yeah  
but um oh we've tried places you know down uh by the collin creek mall  
the uh you know [alvarez]  
and um gosh we tried what was across the street el [paso's]   el chico's or something  
yeah  
something   something like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yes  
yes  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i know  
i tell i tell you what  
they are they just um they're excellent uh excellent food  
i wish i could make them here at home  
just can't make those flour tortillas  
but  
well i love uh i love seafood  
and i notice they have like the you know the louisiana purchase um  
[razzoo's] has opened up down you know off of um um oh close to six thirty five  
yes  
i have eaten there  
now the only problem  
i love the food  
it's a lot of cajun food and   good seafood  
but uh the service has always been so strange every time i've been in there  
mostly it's been at lunch time  
and uh but i hear at night though they have uh you know the outdoor um bar  
and um uh that's it's really uh you know kind of lively  
so it's it's really good all their blackened grill stuff  
uh_huh  
oh well that sounds great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well i uh i have children and and work  
and so we uh we can eat a lot of fast food  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know  
i i know  
i i'm so sick of mcdonalds  
and we used to eat there we used to eat there all the time  
and so now we we we branch out at this wendy's or some other fast food joint  
oh and and cheap too  
yeah  
but but the kids they've got those expensive tastes  
so uh they like tia's  
so they can sit down   and all that good kind of stuff  
yeah  
i know  
they they they're just spoiled rotten  
but uh   but no  
i uh uh we love to eat out  
of course it's just so much easier and simpler  
yeah  
so we uh we usually eat out generally two or three times a week  
yeah  
yeah  
oh me too  
me too  
so i know uh i i know that i uh you know i just work  
and i'm just tired when i get home  
and i i just don't feel like cooking  
and uh you know on the weekends there's always things to do  
and uh so we like to go out to lunch on saturdays especially  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now i we've been there twice and and both times i just oh the food just didn't quite settle with me  
and i don't know what it was  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
and i love  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh family restaurant  
uh_huh  
now i haven't been there  
i went to one i think in ohio or or or somewhere up there  
but i've never been to that one here  
i know it's just down the street  
so now have you been to [applebee's]  
yes  
yes  
i i really like that too  
so that was uh  
oh  
i've been i've been there twice  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so  
salad bar  
yes  
okay  
um we have small children two and four  
and so we our dining is very limited  
oh we're past that now  
we're a little sick of that  
no  
um we're more  
like um you know like [wyatt's] cafeteria  
yeah  
that way  
and the kids just love everything that's there  
so we're pretty fortunate  
kind of um buffet style uh  
so you can   go in and go out  
and the food's already served  
and you don't have to wait  
and it's already in front of them when you sit down  
and things like um souper salads you know  
it's again it's buffet  
and it's already prepared  
and just things any any eating area that you just don't have to wait an extreme amount of time  
we  
no  
we tried a [bennigan's] one time  
and it was terrible  
course it was just probably one of the worst days to go anyway  
we we waited almost forty five minutes before everything was brought out  
and it was we were ready   to go home  
yeah  
no  
we fought with them for forty five minutes  
so we we we rarely go eat in those kind of eating uh situations any more  
but we do love to eat out  
and um and we do it as often as we can  
and and times that we do have baby sitters we we try and catch um some things that we normally wouldn't do you know  
oh um let me see uh for new year's we went to eat at uncle [julio's]  
it's um on on walnut and greenville  
it's called uncle [julio's]  
um basically mexican food  
and it's supposed to be very similar to um uh  
what is that restaurant off of central  
it's a um it's a mexican restaurant off of central  
no  
but i've heard about it  
really  
really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we like um seafood also  
and uh  
vincent's  
no  
we haven't  
really  
really  
no  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
i've seen it  
yeah  
yeah  
we've been to um [chefalia's]  
it's basically the same thing seafood   cajun style  
that's in addison off of belt line  
midway  
like around i think it's a little past or it's right before midway or it's   right at midway  
and um excellent food  
so  
what what is that  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
and where is that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well my [birthday's] coming up  
so  
i need an excuse  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh oh  
yeah  

all right  
uh_huh  
i bet you're mcdonald's fan  
are you  
gosh where do you go [whataburger]  
oh is that right  
yeah  
that's that's good  
i can understand that  
we got we got three kids too  
and when the kids are small if you going to wait you don't go out  
they won't put up with that  
and you had   and you had the kids with you  
and they waited forty five minutes  
i don't doubt that one bit  
where where do you like to go when you got a baby sitter  
where's that  
never heard of that place  
what's the name of that again  
what what are they what kind of  
yeah  
okay  
well there's a [zillion] of them  
have you ever been to [mercado] [juarez]  
that's a good place  
i  
they've got one in addison too now  
but the original was on northwest highway uh just the other west of loop twelve  
that's a good mexican place  
good good prices good good food there  
if you like mexican stuff it's it's a good place  
you you ever been to vincent's  
that's a good seafood place  
yeah  
you ever been tried a place called louisiana purchase  
well this is in plano  
they might have another one  
but it's on uh parker and central expressway  
and it's it's  
yeah  
it's cajun type stuff  
if you like it kind of hot that   that is good food  
that's good stuff  
yes  
where's that place  
yeah  
okay  
belt line and what  
okay  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
we got this premier dining card thing  
and we've we've been going to all sorts of weird type places with it  
well you get uh one free  
and you you you pay for one now and   type thing  
and uh   we've been to from barbecue to  
there's a [swan] club which is out central and campbell  
uh that is if you like continental stuff that is really nice  
talk talk your husband into taking you there some night  
i mean it's not a cheap place  
but uh it's very nice  
uh it's on campbell it it's north of campbell but uh off central uh  
oh it used to be a northern telecom building in the in the ground floor  
i don't know what they call it now  
northern telecom kind of moved over in their own building  
but it it's a big tall it's the [tallest] building on the west side northwest side of campbell and just before you get to campbell  
and it's in the lower floor  
but it's really a nice restaurant   if you like continental stuff  
and tell him to take you there for your anniversary  
and then they got a place where you can dance you know and all that kind of stuff  
there you go  
all right  
you got one coming  
have you ever been to [ewaldes]  
now there's if you like  
i i like continental stuff myself  
my wife doesn't necessary like that stuff  
but i like that  
and that's down in the the [stoneleigh] hotel now  
and that is really super kind of stuff too take if you like continental at all   that kind of stuff  
either one of those two you go through a hundred bucks without half trying  
but it it's   it's nice really nice place  
oh you don't have to spend that much  
i'm kidding you  
okay  
it's pressed  
are you still there  
okay  
so what's uh things that you look for when you go out to dinner  
uh_huh  
huh  
um that sounds pretty   yeah  
uh_huh  
well we don't go out to dinner that much either  
we try to get out maybe like once every month and a half or   something like that  
but i definitely want to go to a place that's nice and clean you know  
um i've been to some that's been terrible  
you know you see [cockroaches] crawling around and   everything you know  
but i try to get one that's nice and clean  
and then i like to you know good food and good service  
so  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
so is there some nice places to go to eat in plano  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um that sounds beautiful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well   this is only a little small city  
uh we have uh  
excuse me i didn't think my coughing would come back  
anyhow we have only like one uh restaurant that's kind of nice  
you know they have prime rib on uh weekends  
and then they have about six miles from here is called a little city called [wesley]  
and they have a [wesley] hotel there that they serve food  
and the atmosphere there is really really nice  
so and then if we really want to you know something different we go to modesto   which is like twenty minutes away  
but uh we don't have any fast foods here in this small city  
do i have kids  
well i have a son  
but he's grown up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
all the kids seem to love mcdonald's don't they you know  
no  
no  
i'm sure there isn't  
uh_huh  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well let's see what else can we talk about  
oh it's foggy and cold here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and it's  
i came from iowa when i was sixteen  
so i've lived out in california for a long long time  
yeah  
i like it real well  
we used to live in oakland  
so we used to have a lot more restaurants to go to there   you know  
but uh then i quit work and everything  
and i bought a house  
i had a condo in oakland  
so right in [chinatown] so we went to lots of restaurants   chinese restaurants  
and they were really good  
i really miss them you know  
uh no  
i really don't miss   living there  
i just like to go in there and have a nice chinese   dinner once in a while you know  
but uh as far as missing living there no  
it's close enough if i wanted to go there to san francisco for dinner or something why you know an hour and fifteen minutes we could be there and   you know have dinner and then come on back  
but uh have you ever been to california  
oh really  
um  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm ready  
oh i just like a nice quiet nice atmosphere   and of course good food  
that's always that's always a concern but just a nice quiet easy place   maybe [candlelight] something   just to relax you know   because i don't really go out to dinner that much  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
where you don't feel rushed you know  
and you can just relax and   stay as long as you want  
well nearby  
we're almost in dallas  
we're just north of dallas  
so we have quite a bit between us and there  
it's about ten miles  
and there is all kinds of restaurants  
and i had one that was a favorite for a long time  
and then it changed hands and doubled the prices  
and then it finally went out of business  
so but it was really nice  
it had a fireplace  
yeah  
it was really nice  
they had entertainment sometimes  
and   you could just really relax there and enjoy it  
but it's gone  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
uh_huh  
right  
that is probably very fortunate for you  
do you have kids  
yeah  
oh because i have a twelve year old that would eat a happy meal every night you know  
and   [now's] she's graduated to two [cheeseburgers]  
so something's happened here  
but but um you know mcdonald's is definitely at the top of her list  
and i hate these places  
uh_huh  
they do  
and i don't think there's an ounce of [nutritional] value in anything they have  
well we have all kinds of fast foods everywhere around  
and it's really it's tempting when you come home from work  
and you're tired  
and you know you just are tempted to give in to that  
and it costs a lot of money to do it too  
you know it adds up  
and it's not healthy  
and i really got into that habit for a while  
but i got out of it again because   i just felt like   it was just too unhealthy  
so  
well how's california today  
is it  
that's what i've heard yeah  
have you always lived there  
oh  
and you like it  
yeah  
we've been  
oh yeah  
oh that would be fun  
yeah  
do you miss living there  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i go all the time  
yeah  
well i have a twenty one year old daughter in college there  
and she um is a world champion twirler  
and her coach is in california  
so she went there for six years  
so i went out a lot with her  
and uh yeah  
i know california pretty well  
and i love it  
and   we tug back and forth who's going to move  
but i think he's going to move because i'm the person with more to lose here  
i have my twelve year old in school  
and she's happy  
she always lived here in the south  
and i have my house  
so   i have too much to lose  
okay  
gene  
so it's nice to talk with you  
and um food is a very intriguing thing  
our lives are are built around foods that we like and [nutritionally] good for us  
what kind of dining out do you like  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
pancho's that's   a new one  
uh_huh  
we have one called chi [chi's] in in our area  
and uh we had a restaurant called la [bamba]  
but it's just it closed recently  
but chi [chi's] is a national restaurant i think  
isn't it mexican  
do you have it there  
uh_huh  
well i love mexican food myself  
but you go ahead now  
is that right  
uh_huh  
oh boy that is wonderful  
well i i agree with you on that  
and i was really a seafood [addict] myself  
i i love crab meat in particular  
i uh i can almost live on on seafood and almost live on the crab meat if i had to  
i uh know the name  
but i haven't been there  
uh_huh  
where did you go to college  
oh the u s   naval academy  
uh_huh  
i'll be darn  
well we're we're supposed to be talking about [dinning] out  
but i'll just make one comment that uh i just retired from penn state  
and uh all my work has been in research for the navy  
underwater acoustics  
i have dealt with nearly all of the all of the research laboratories that the country has  
uh_huh  
oh you grew up in orlando  
uh_huh  
well that's what i worked on  
the end of last month  
i certainly have  
so i hate to uh  
i wish i could talk to you about that uh  
but uh i guess we should continue on uh  
okay  
how do you like chinese food  
uh_huh  
well i uh enjoy the szechuan type of uh chinese food  
yes  
yep uh  
it's uh  
i i do a lot of chinese cooking myself  
i have in the past  
i haven't done recently  
but uh it's in the sweet and sour [porks] and things like are just really delicious meals  
uh just at home  
i i enjoyed the food  
and i bought a lot of uh good cookbooks  
and i've been following through on that  
when you find the right cookbook why it works out  
okay  
well that one's a good question  
here it's right under my nose if i can find it  
oh boy  
yeah  
right  
one of this book i have is called chinese cooking made easy  
uh it's a paperback  
and i think it's by someone named [chang]  
yeah  
[isabelle] [chang]  
yeah  
yeah  
i think you will enjoy that  
well it certainly is nice talking with you gene  
and uh what is your phone at home  
yes sir  
well there is two kinds  
one i guess i'd say is with my wife where we enjoy uh   oh i guess we usually enjoy a good seafood restaurant  
uh you know something nice  
and the other is with my whole family whom we uh go somewhere that the kids will enjoy  
uh recently we have been hitting pancho's up  
it's a local mexican restaurant  
because they have got a good rate on you know good prices and everything  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's a chain down uh  
it goes up into colorado and down here  
i don't know where else it is  
what about you  
oh yeah  
i think   think it might be  
i've i think i've seen it around  
yes sir  
yeah  
oh do you  
yeah  
oh we we do too  
we uh we enjoy mexican food  
i'm just not impressed with the quality of it  
it's just primarily the price that's uh satisfying at this point  
but the kids   seem to enjoy it  
uh and uh let's see  
we've uh just recently discovered a super restaurant down here  
but it's uh not part of a chain  
it's just an individually owned seafood restaurant  
but the first one we've been to that uh i don't think there was anything on the menu that that any of us had  
that was uh not just really super  
it's nice to find a place like that  
yeah  
um  
oh boy  
have you ever been to uh what is it original book [binders] in philadelphia  
uh that's an old established uh restaurant  
i used to go there when i was in college  
uh i went to the naval academy  
and we used to   we use to go up there on uh for football games sometimes   and have some liberty  
and  
yeah  
we would go over there to uh  
pretty sure it was original original book [binders]  
i think it was  
yes  
i haven't been back there in years  
okay  
what area  
is that right  
did you have any dealings with the uh underwater sound reference laboratory in orlando florida  
yes sir  
my dad worked there for years and years  
that's that's uh that's where i grew up was down in orlando  
so  
that's uh that's interesting well i was in [submarines] uh  
okay  
yeah  
must have had some interesting uh assignments for you there  
when did you retire  
well great  
i'm sure you've seen some interesting developments in acoustics  
yeah  
okay  
right  
where's  
oh we we do enjoy that  
yes sir  
uh i don't know if we are particularly adventurous  
we find something we like uh like cashew shrimp or something that's got a good uh at a particular restaurant  
and then we usually stick by it  
but do you   what about you  
hot  
uh_huh  
um where did you learn how to do chinese cooking  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what's a good reference cookbook for chinese food  
i guess one of the things we've uh started [avoiding] is the uh run of the mill chop [suey] and things like that  
but we enjoy trying uh different kinds of chicken or uh you know even uh shrimp uh dishes that are fixed in a chinese restaurant  
okay  
thanks for that uh reference  
okay  
good  
yeah  
well i haven't been to any new ones
but i have uh several that i frequent uh mainly because of specialties in foods and i have so many so many foods that i prefer uh that i enjoy such as oriental foods i don't like japanese food
but i like all chinese food
yeah
sounds familiar
yes
yes
that sounds uh very much like one of our very very best places to get steaks
uh and they open at five and if your not there at five thirty you'll probably have about an hour wait
and they have a bar also which is always crowded as can be
but it's it's an specially fine restaurant and when you consider they take no plastic or checks strictly cash
and they've been in business oh for at least forty years
uh that's the
yes
yes
it's their their steaks are [exquisite] they also have uh excellent uh liver which i happen to like
and um those are the two specialties which they have that
and their [stewed] tomatoes which are well known all over the dayton area
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yes
right
well one of the nicer restaurants supposedly that opened up here not too very long ago called harbor lights
specializes in fish
and uh the atmosphere is fantastic
and i was there with it's a group um that uh we were having a going away dinner for a friend
and there were twelve of us
and i the the food that uh we ordered each of us was quite good
but the service was horrendous
and the the waitress never once came behind me um um on our side of the table
she reached across the table
she never once asked if we wanted coffee we had to grab onto someone else
they didn't [refill] our water glasses um someone had only eaten a portion of their food and wanted to take it home and asked to have it [boxed] and she just pitched it out
and then when she finally did bring something
um to replace that she practically threw it at the person
yes
and
oh absolutely
what made me angry was that when there are groups such as ours there were twelve of us
they automatically put the tip on the bill
and i'll tell you we had some very unhappy people who were so unhappy with the service and resented paying fifteen percent tip when they had such poor service
but
oh
yes
right
right
oh well one thing that gets me is when you see them do putting out the um the um knives [forks] and what have you
and when they put them down
they hold them by the edge that you are going to put in your mouth
and that really up sets me when i see that
oh
oh
uh_huh
yes
but
yeah
oh
no
no
and actually you know those are the kind of things that should get taken back to the management
because the the the waitresses have no control over the the way the dishes are and cleaned in the kitchen and if they're not cleaned off
well when they go threw the dishwasher food just doesn't always get washed off and it sticks on there
and then when they dry them um if they air dry them or heat dry them it dries it right on
and that's terrible
yes
i agree with that
but just don't ever get a glass that has [lipstick] on it
oh that is terrible
i had that happen only once i don't remember where but it's always one time is enough for me to be aware of the situation
and i look at every glass that i get
yeah
i don't mind that um my husband never cared for fast food so we didn't go that often
but you know i have no problem with going to a mcdonald's or a wendy's or a or a long john [silver's] or any of those once in a while not often
but once in a while
yeah
oh yeah
that's very true
now once in a while
if there's a good [ballgame] like there's going to be tonight with duke and um kansas city um
kansas
um you see i would enjoy having a pizza and just sit and watch the game and a have a pizza and a beer that i would enjoy
no no at home just have it
delivered yeah
we we have some of our pizza places deliver and i assume that you have that there also
domino's was the first one to start yes
yes
yes
we have domino's we have pizza hut and then we have a couple of other smaller little [ceasars] and [juan's] pizza they're all in the general facility where i live
and so i can
and then my most favorite one doesn't deliver it's called [marian's] pizza
but i think it is local and no
uh_huh
right
that makes a big difference
well we have a lot of businesses going out of business uh in this area
and i don't know whether it's necessarily nationwide but many of the smaller stores grocery stores
card shops smaller restaurants
i can't compete with some of the larger ones
and they are all going under
yes
yes
absolutely
well i um i've been retired from education for uh-oh
what eight years
and i do i have a bunch of had i should say a bunch of little jobs such as a sales associate um job at a women's specialty dress shop and um i was a manager part time at a card and gift shop as well as teaching in a modeling agency and modeling
so the card shop just went out of business
we've been there
almost a year almost two years
but and the store was precious everyone liked the store
they liked the kinds of cards and what have you
but the location was so poor
and it was in a shopping strip that had a grocery store on one end that took them almost four years to really get that going and that strip filled up
but kathy selected the middle store in the middle strip and there's still no stores on either side
and it's been over a year and a half
yes
and and it's sad because it was it was a nice store and she was such a lovely young gal to work for
i just feel very bad
oh well you wonder how these topics get chosen where was the last place you went out to eat
well last place we went was uh uh-oh
we went to [popeye's] fried chicken
actually it was a drive through
well our our kids are a little older
actually we got a seventeen year old and a fourteen year old
but but we still wind up i still i like fast food reasonably well
yeah
well how old are your kids
oh so they really like that sort of stuff
i can remember many times though uh uh it's interesting though that that you know particularly when you're traveling and you go some place you stop at a mcdonald's with the big playground when you know when the kids really need to get out and run around after been driving a while
yeah
that's that's really nice that they started doing that because it's the problem is you take them to some place nice
and you know the even a place where they have to sit down even if they are really good kids they get they get bored in a hurry
and uh yeah
you know we now we're a little older we can go to
i i still like um i like buffets
yeah
well have you been in the area very long
huh
you say you in denison
oh okay
so we were i was in sherman
um um last month or the
i took a i sponsored a youth group up there
and it was funny
we went to a uh-oh
we must have had thirty of us
and we went into a pizza hut and you wander into a pizza hut with that kind of crowd
and they sort of hate to see you coming they get the business
but with a crowd of people
it's uh it it it's kind of funny
and we went in first
and then it was so crowded
and we went and i'm trying to think it's right off anyway i don't know if it's pizza hut or pizza inn anyway we went to another one
and uh they the rates there are fairly reasonable
but you know even those places are starting to have you know video games and things for kids your kids play video games
oh gives him something to [amuse] him while there uh
yeah
well do you have do you have any like [chucky] cheese
well got one in richardson pardon me
i try and think there there there's a couple of those that they combined
and it's a combination pizza parlor and all kinds of yeah
and they have the room full of balls and
yeah
yeah
show biz that's the name of it
you like the pizza at show biz oh
yeah
yeah
well you know they're so large
they animated it
yeah
that's really uh yeah
we were until the kids got older we'd go there
and you know it was um i'll date myself a little bit
but it's remarkable the number of those things that they make
i guess
i think show biz and [chucky] cheese and all those i think they [merged] or something
but it still it's still quite popular i have to
i'm not sure the pizza was okay
i mean
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh well do you ever go out to eat at a higher higher end type more expensive places
huh
huh
well we got a lot of barbecue places around around the dallas area spring creek barbecue that's right
in richardson
and it uh i like the barbecue there and uh it's fairly reasonable
you can get uh it if i mean if you know you go through the line and pick up your food
yeah
it is
they're probably just being normal though
well when it's funny when when when the kids get a lot older though you can do as you please our son graduates this year
and we're kind of looking forward to
yeah
yeah
they're
you know it's kind of like wanting to talk and you know
but you
but then they learned to say no
it's kind of funny
and now they get older our son's a senior in high school will talk to us
but you know you know it's mostly
no
no
no
it's sort of i guess it's a little disappointing
but i suppose it's just the way life is
right
well you know everybody says you'd be surprised how quickly
it comes but it it uh
we moved here in seventy six daughter was six weeks old and hard to believe in nearly fifteen years
no
i i i grew up in uh in alabama
well no
actually i was until i was eight
i lived in in in south uh western georgia
and then we moved over into central part of alabama
but i've been away from there for goodness
i haven't lived in alabama since nineteen sixty five that's been a long time ago i lived several places europe and asia
and
yeah
i spent
right
i was in the air force
yeah
i was i went in in nineteen and sixty five when they were drafting people in fact my father was on the draft board
so
yeah
well it
things are different when everybody in fact that was vietnam era it was in fact i went to vietnam myself
it was it's a different world
well see i never had a hard time coming home
it didn't uh you know there all these people who spit on them and all these kinds of things i came home and got married
and i i never uh uh uh i could now
but i didn't
and i mentioned that to my wife and she said well you never wore your uniform when you were off duty
but i didn't i flew into los angeles
but i had um when i was in vietnam
but by then when we landed actually went into field
okay
where do you like to go out to eat
oh i can relate to that lucky if you go out once a month
yeah
uh_huh
i we like all most any kind of food
and here in texas they seem to give such large portions so you know you really i really enjoy eating out here
yeah
i know eating out is a real treat for me because you know
i with two
we have two children
and it costs so much to take the family out you know
we treated the kids today because they wanted to go out to lunch at wendy's but its like they it cost so much to even go there
so
yeah
we like to go to my one of my favorite places is like [sizzler] and uh you know i like red lobster
and and you know the [sizzler's] real nice because you get the you know you get a lot of food
but the [atmosphere's] nice
and
yeah
you can you can just make a meal out of the salad bar
and uh i i look for in a restaurant
i
they have to be [courteous] and clean you know that you know
i don't i'm not looking for you know gourmet food
but you know i want food that's you know good
something that i would you know if i made it i'd serve to my family or guests so so
uh_huh
oh
yeah
addison has some wonderful places to eat yeah
oh
no
i haven't
cajun uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
see i grew up in wyoming and so i'm so used to the you know the beef and the barbecue type stuff you know
uh i like uh i think going to steak n ale is a treat too
i really like that
but uh uh i can't remember if my husband's taken me there or not
my husband's probably gone there because he works up at the plano plant
uh_huh
uh i have i don't think i've been there
he might have
yeah
yeah
my husband used to work at the north building
so he probably has been there
uh_huh
i i uh
and you know being on a budget
the it can't be real expensive either
what's wrong [melissa] do you need to go potty oh
yeah
yeah
it's real treat to go
so
some people you know they just go out almost every night you know
and i'm like
no
no
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
no
you can't
because you've got to consider a baby sitter on top of that
and uh i'm a person that loves to do coupons you know it
with the grocery store
so i just you know like this is why they come out with coupons and stuff
so i'm not afraid to use a a coupon at a place either
so
pardon me
oh el chico's i really like
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
whatever yeah
oh i i really like el chico's so that was one place that when we lived over in the you know we just lived over on greenville and l b j you know
so there was an el chico's real close
and and my husband working at the north building
we would go there
this is before we had kids you know
we'd go there you know quite a bit because we just really liked it
but i haven't been there in so long
i think the last time i was there
we took our kids
and so with children
uh_huh
it is
uh_huh
oh i i have to agree there it
oh yeah
it does you know by the time you you go through the you know the [spilling] on the floor and the sit down and be quiet and quit yelling in the uh_huh
yeah
one thing my place my kids enjoy going is [denny's] yeah
because you get those you can get coupons you know like in the paper you know that come in the coupon section of the paper
they've had you know like buy get one dinner entree get one for free
so we've done that a couple times where we've taken the kids and you know they have a little kids menu
and they really like that
but then again it's difficult to keep them quiet
and then they like [showbusiness] pizza you know
oh [showbusiness] my daughter calls it
oh
oh you're not a kidding
it it that's why we've only been there a couple times
yeah
that you might when you go
no
isn't that the truth you you go there just for the kids it's the rides we've taken our kids there just for to play you know
but yeah
when you go in there you expect to spend twenty dollars
yeah
yeah
yeah
no
for kids amusement parks we go to monkey business
that's a plain amusement park
but yeah
its
it's in uh mesquite off of military and [scyene] on six thirty five
it's an indoor amusement park
you're child's probably too young
yeah
so but yeah
uh my kids love it
i have a two year
well almost a three year old and a four year old
so
and they love it
but yeah
we enjoy going out and of course mcdonald's
and
oh i know
um with mine
i don't know if it's so much the food
i think it's just the the play on the outside equipment
you take them
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i think they enjoy going out too
it's a treat for them too
so yeah
well i think we've about discussed the subject
before the lady comes on and tells us our ten minutes up
it was nice talking to you too
bye bye
well we're probably different from you folks down here
we're into uh mexican or tex mex or something like that that tends to be one of my favorites is to go out to uh have some mexican food
we have like um el chico's and one new place uh that's pretty good is uh pappasito's
so when i go out and i like to splurge on eating i usually like to go out and get some mexican food and make sure there's a basket of chips keeps being [replenished] on the table
no
no
i'm not a native here actually um from philadelphia originally and lived in uh ohio for you know a good portion of time going to high school and college there
so i've been down here for about eight years
but uh i don't know that's just something that i really picked up on i really did like the mexican food
the other thing i like i guess um i don't eat it as often is maybe italian food
we don't have as many places around here to eat italian food
but i like italian food
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's not too close to the real thing
oh yeah
uh_huh
where did you go for it
did you go like to [hoffbrau] steaks
park [suite] yeah
right across the street
yeah
um
uh_huh
um
um
and what was the name of it
um okay
right
yeah
last night we went out and people we were with she uh had fajitas and she had this pepper on the plate and maybe she thought it was a sweet pepper but it wasn't
and she ate it
and i was wondering why her eyes were watering she and she had drank all her [iced] tea
and she
yeah
no
no
i i can maybe eat some [jalapenos] but i really don't you know ask for those on there
i'm more like into the enchiladas
and and stuff like that
but no
i don't really like it hot
um i remember meeting somebody a long time ago
before i ever moved to texas
and he put hot sauce on everything he ate i mean [tabasco's] and that kind of stuff
on everything he ate i think he [must've] just had a a stomach that was iron or something
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
well those are my two favorites
you know
uh yeah
yeah
there's one favorite place that we have called august moon
that's that's pretty good
and uh i've got one thing on the menu that i really love
but um we don't do that probably as often
we used to do a a quick take out kind of place that wasn't real great chinese
but we used to do
we just liked vegetable fried rice quite a bit
just you know as a quick kind of dinner thing that's you know it's not real filling but you know get some veggies and rice and stuff
every once in a while we go out to a little bit nicer chinese place
yeah
uh_huh
um well recently
we've both been trying to do some diet
so we haven't gone out
because when they tell you about how much fat is in all that food you know it really kind of [crimps] your style there
but um we probably you know maybe go out like once a week on the weekend usually with friends or something
we kind of go out um not always you know sometimes we cook the meal at home and have people in
but i haven't really thought about you know the economy all that much
and and eating out
we we never really did it a lot
but you know we do
maybe go out a couple of times a month
at least to eat out
um
uh_huh
oh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well though you know t i has laid off quite a few in this area
and then general dynamics has its [woes] too
so that it seems like there's
been a lot of people recently
you know when big companies uh change their programs and and such that there's been an influx of some unemployed but probably when you spread it out over everybody in dallas it maybe has not changed the percentage all that much you know maybe
one or two percent possibly it's hard to say
it just seems like a lot when you hear about companies that keep continually advertising or [stating] that they're you know you know cutting out so many thousands of employees it sounds like big numbers
of people out there
that's true
i think the people down here must shop for entertainment because we have more shopping malls within close [proximity]
i mean it's like we could have shopping malls even across the road from each other
there must be a lot of people with a lot of money who just like to go out and shop because we have [plentitude] of shopping malls within like a five mile [radius] i
oh yes
i love uh mexican
and uh oriental foods
both
so uh i could say enchiladas down on greenville avenue in dallas texas
is uh a real good mexican
and we like uh stir fry [hunan] style
over in addison
oh yeah
yeah
i enjoy
and good food in the blue [goose] yeah
that is a good place where do you like to eat
uh_huh
favorite spot
oh yeah
yeah
that's good
what other kind of food uh_huh
uh_huh [schlotzky's] is probably my favorite deli deli sandwich
i guess because of the bread the uh roll
uh_huh
sounds good
that's true
that is true
well both uh probably eat out for dinner say once or twice a week
and i eat out for lunch probably three times a week
so
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
there is a new italian restaurant that is really good uh on greenville
it's uh la [fontana] or something like that it's right after you cross uh six thirty five on greenville
it is actually the family has not been here even a year in the states
it's real authentic italian food and their deserts are fabulous
so if you like italian that that's a really good place to go
uh_huh
i haven't tried that is it good
because i live in plano too
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that means a lot to me too [nonsmoking] yeah
um let's see what was uh what about steaks
where you for a good steak
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh well that's good because i i know steak and ale is a favorite prime rib
that they have is is usually what i get
and i was real pleased now i haven't had prime rib at the [hoffbrau] but really
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
oh
uh_huh
yeah
and from what i understand
i know on the weekends passing there they have quite a wait
really
um
well what about fast food what do you grab you know say what's your favorite hamburger wendy's oh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i understand that
yeah
well i don't know wendy's i think wendy's tries to be more of a homemade burger so it's to me it's probably a little bit better
you know an maybe it's an adult hamburger place
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i like just about any kind of food
i usually i can eat anything
at anytime
so usually whatever
my friends want to go eat it suits me just fine
an
oh
is that where the [flamingo] was
okay
i noticed they were redoing that
oh gosh
uh_huh
i've never been there
this new one is [razzoo's] oh cajun is that a chain
or
uh_huh
well good deal
i'll have to try that
what about that italian there
have you tried that
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my gosh
yeah
a lot of food
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
soup yeah
souper salads is a favorite place to hit too
one of those things you got to go early
you know to find a seat yeah
yeah
let's uh as far as fish
i think my favorite place is uh [dinger's] over on forest lane oh it's very good very good matter of fact it's right by the t i plant that little shopping center
it's pretty good
and
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
also in the shopping center you know where uh [zaks] is that little craft shopping center
there's a a home if you want just like a plate you know home cooked meal that's it's called b j and every day they have like a plate lunch special
and it's fairly cheap
it's like two ninety five or three fifty
and it's real good
so
oh it's just kind of a mom and pop restaurant that's uh vegetables like a couple vegetables and a meat
an and roll
and quick usually really quick too
so i have never tried any
uh_huh
uh_huh
i was going to say how does it compare are the spices different
uh_huh
oh okay
more like an entree
and and vegetable okay
okay
how wild
yeah
okay
well what about indian have you tried indian yeah
oh it's uh right there in richardson on the west side of seventy five and uh she i've never got the courage to go
but that's once a week place for her
so yeah
well what about t i cafeteria do you ever
uh
oh gosh
yeah
that's the only thing that's safe
yeah
yeah
the [burrito] you can only handle every so often
we enjoy various types of restaurants
uh there is excellent italian restaurants here
there is some cajun cooking and of course there is always steaks
and barbecue right
oh not as much as we used to
but still at least about once a week
let's see
we ate at louisiana purchase up in plano just recently we had a [craving] for catfish
and they had some good catfish there
and uh we enjoy there is an italian restaurant over in garland also called taste of italy
i do not know if you have tried any of those there is about four of them around town
but it is good home style italian cooking it is not the fancy veal and things you get at some of the other italian restaurants
they make excellent spaghetti sauce and little garlic rolls and things like that
and i have also recently eaten at [jacolya] out at addison cajun cooking
north dallas and richardson and plano area
we live out near richardson square mall
so it is generally in that north side of town
yes
there is an excellent uh i guess it is taiwan the southeast asian type restaurant down in deep elm i west wind or
yes
yeah
i believe
so i am really not sure exactly what style it is
but it is very very good
now right in the edge of north dallas there at skillman just north of l b j
there is another vietnamese type restaurant called [yoli's] y o l i's which serves some excellent food too in that in that style of food
it's not a fancy place i have eaten there at lunch primarily oh that is hard to say
but the ones that we like most are out of business now
but
right
but [papillon] is one we go back to quite frequently for uh continental style cooking
oh
right
i think you would enjoy it
it is a [tad] on the expensive side uh probably run uh with dinner and uh some drinks about twenty five thirty dollars a person
it helps quite a bit
right
yes
we have used some of the coupons also at some of the places
but uh that is
i think one of our favorite our our most most favorite restaurant was [lalouve] which was here on in north just off of central expressway in north dallas
but that has been gone for several years now
it's gone
right
that does not surprise me
yeah
well we we have enjoyed it
the there have been some excellent restaurants here through the years
and of course some go up some go down and uh it just depends on the chef in some cases
of course
no
i have not uh i have not been to that one
yeah
yeah
well again the old [sonny] [bryan's] up there by uh what is it by uh methodist hospital
up on [inwood] yeah
yeah
that one is not it's it's a it's a barbecue stand really it's not really a restaurant
that's right
they make some really good barbecue there
right
i used to work over on on just off of [stemmons] and we would go over there about once a week for barbecue for lunch
but there is uh-oh
there is a lots of good restaurants here i think the really hard thing is that you want fresh seafood of course we are a little bit away from the coast
not as far as kansas
but
right
for seafood just all around good eating seafood vincent's has some really good seafood
yeah
well there is several there is one in plano one on midway there is one over by love field
i think
there are three or four of them here in town
and we have gone to the one over on midway
and also to the one up in plano as a matter of fact we were there new year's eve at the one on plano
yeah
i think you would really enjoy it
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
we had dinner there
we have a group of friends we go out once with
and we had dinner at ralph and [kacoos] last fall
i think
and we were there
and it was excellent
the night that we were there
oh yeah
it depends on whether they got comp the meal or not
i think we have i certainly enjoyed talking with you
you will have to try it do not expect anything fancy it's home style food not expensive
and uh get the dinner salad with the olives on it
yes
my wife [swears] by the lasagna
yeah
they have excellent lasagna and if you get like spaghetti with uh get with the italian sauce it should taste like home made italian sausage you get in chicago
yeah
thank you
okay
i now say arlington texas since the other day i said that
and somebody said well i'm in arlington virginia
yeah
i was really surprised
and i got one person from utah
but usually it's right around here
well what do you like in a restaurant
i know
number one that's definitely it
uh_huh
yeah
you know i used to like to go to friday's because i like kind of lively fun
places
but the last time we went there it was so [horrendously] noisy that i don't know if i'll ever go back
it was awful
uh_huh
that's right
oh i know
that's the half the fun
is the conversation right
i really think american restaurants are all overall getting noisy noisy people just screaming i say that because i the time i was in europe years ago you could be in a tiny little restaurant everyone talked lower they still seemed to have fun
uh_huh
i don't either
i know i and uh another one
you can tell i go to cheap restaurants now that i have a daughter in college
and i'm going
we go all the [cheapies] but we go to [cheddar's] a lot there is one by us
and they'll just blast the t v in the bar where you have to wait till they call your name
you know and and i'm not that excited about some baseball game or whatever they're
it's just so loud
you can't even visit while you're having a drink or anything
oh they all run screaming in and singing yes
they do too
i think
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
oh golly
uh i like most kinds of food really i'd never go to a barbecue place
i mean i don't mind barbecue
but that's one that we just don't go out to but you know i like italian and mexican
and i love french and uh we don't i don't even think we have a greek restaurant in arlington
we uh i used to go to a greek restaurant over in dallas couple of them i thought they were great
uh i like most everything
i like seafood too
course it's hard to get my husband to a seafood restaurant
but another thing to consider is the uh help you know
uh their attitude
i i think
and uh some of them you know they come up with all this phony stuff too
hi
my name's bill
i'm your waiter for the night
oh
i'm tired of that
right
i don't care about
right
we don't have to exchange backgrounds
but uh price is something to consider
but
right
now the more expensive the restaurant the more i want the the waiters to really wait on you
and be good you know
really
really
i think so
well we went to new orleans this fall and talk about great restaurants
oh
oh
oh i know
and uh really we we went to [commander's] palace and and you know it was supposed to be one of the better ones in america
and uh our dinner that night
you could choose one that had like four courses
and it was thirty nine dollars a dinner
but my gosh
it was worth it
it was just beautiful surroundings at one time there was five people waiting on our table
oh really
that's the first time i've been in new orleans before was the first time i'd eaten there
and i thought it was worth every penny
and uh really enjoyed that
and then i enjoyed that more than [brennan's] i think it's better
but still [brennan's] is so lovely
and the service is so wonderful
that's true
oh i know
all right now then we should be ready to go with our conversation
what are your preferences
oh i've decided there's so many places in dallas i will not make too many repeats
and i thoroughly enjoy the ethnic foods
yes
certainly course i perhaps would enjoy tex mex
and that's uh a good tex mex is awfully hard to beat do you do you care for that flavor
i i understand that
uh but you don't care for the steaks
uh
yes
i found a little place over in uh preston center tonight
it's a called oh i don't have the matches now
but it's a it's a cafe au france and they had the it's a small place
but most delightful i had
not been there before
and then i found with a neighbor oh couple a about a month ago this uh [salvadorian] and that is on six thirty five in a i don't think it was [days'] inn motel
but this woman's son had been there two or three times
and their food is excellent
except for their fried banana now
i do not care for that
but uh the the other things the seasonings were
so oh wait
i have a just second
i'm sorry
i didn't know i'd have that one
come in
but anyway that was it was very good and very very reasonable
good service
and the things that i look forward to
i mean i want to be waited on
i don't want to go cafeteria style
i'd rather have them cater to me when i'm when i'm [patronizing] them
the only time that i would go against that would be the sunday brunches that
many of the places have
one that i have enjoyed and had the privilege of eating there new year's eve night was the marriott on six thirty five at coit have you been there eat
uh_huh
well they had a buffet dinner which was very
so what kind of dining out
do you enjoy
uh_huh
four children
or
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
so that has a children's menu or
uh_huh
uh well i don't have any children
uh and i'm a [newlywed]
so right now i guess my favorite type of restaurant is is a place that's fairly quiet and has a pleasant atmosphere i sort of like the either an old country look
or uh [dim] lights or something just you know
uh well i enjoy steak and ale yeah
that's that seems to have a pretty nice atmosphere usually not i don't like noise
i just
hate it when restaurants are like [bennigan's] that's the other
one that i really like
yeah
i haven't in plano
i haven't uh-oh yeah
yeah
yeah
i've been to one here in dallas
yeah
they are they really are
i've only been there once uh almost a year ago
and i want to go back
i've thought about it ever since it's not on our side of town
yeah
uh well my husband loves anything beef
so
he likes steak or ribs or something
but i kind of like more variety
i like to be able to
yeah
exactly
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i like to have a choice of fish or chicken and italian food mexican food
you know something uh yeah
something that i wouldn't that takes more time to cook at home
uh i'd say well one thing is the price i don't think it
yeah
yeah
if it's overpriced or you know i mean if it's i like to still be able to get a meal for
well i'd prefer five dollars or less
but that's unusual these days
if you go out
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
we like uh tony [roma's] it's a rib place
uh_huh
well
uh let's see
there's there's one up at uh see what is it just as uh loop twelve turns into thirty five it
[merges] it's right there
it's sort of a restaurant row in dallas there
and then there's also one down at the marketplace west end marketplace and we found out one day by mistake that lunch is about half as much as dinner is
and you get almost the same amount
yeah
uh_huh
so i'd say that's the first thing i look for is price
and then atmosphere
yeah
how about you
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
so so what would your favorite place be or one of your favorites
or some of your favorite
no
i've never heard of that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i like chinese too
yeah
sometimes you can uh you can often get that at a good price
and some of them have good atmosphere too
so
uh_huh
yeah
some of them don't
yeah
yeah
so do you like places that are noisy
that are lively
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
i'm sure it does
uh_huh
yeah
i have
yeah
yeah
that's what i found too
so well do you have anything else you wanted to say
what uh what are some of your favorite places to uh eat at royal tokyo
uh_huh
okay
oh all right
oh yeah
well i'm a vegetarian
so uh my places are my my my choices are somewhat limited
uh but my very favorite is the olive garden
i think uh if or or else uh uh el chico's if i have if i had my choice that's where i like to go
yeah
i haven't been in dallas for very long
and so i don't know
you know too many places to eat
but uh it it it is a little bit uh you know there at almost every restaurant there are uh things to eat
it just depends on you know whether what you really want to eat is there
yeah
are you vegetarian also
or
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well uh several reasons um um most importantly i have a uh a disease and and both of in all of my joints that uh in which arthritis is a big factor
and uh several reports uh in the last five years have given validity to the uh to to the theory that that uh vegetarian diet greatly reduces the pain involved with uh arthritis yeah
it really does work um even to the point now where uh i'm able to run you know to go out running or jogging on a a [periodic] basis which which was impossible before
yeah
it it it really has helped uh unfortunately um i i can't give up uh milk
so so i drink uh i drink skim milk
but if i had my way i'd drink a gallon gallon a day
so but but my my restaurant choices then uh i guess since i've uh been a vegetarian
that's what i eat it doesn't
doesn't matter
rocco's uh_huh
okay
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
oh good
yeah
um i'll try that out
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
yeah
what makes you go back to a restaurant
really
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
the
i i think more than anything else uh the atmosphere
yeah
which i think you know the the the the service is is a big part of
but but uh my very favorite place in the world to eat uh believe it or not is in i went to school in abilene uh and and there's a there's a little restaurant there called the uh uh the [oxford] street
which uh the food is okay uh
uh and uh you know it's it's on the better side of good
and the service is okay
but the atmosphere is just beautiful
it's uh uh you you know it looks like an an old english uh home with uh you know the high back leather chairs and uh uh the the cloth the cloth uh you know how they cloth the walls with with that
[tapestry] cloth it has that
it's it's just really nice
and i like to eat in there just because i like the feeling in there
yeah
yeah
makes you hungry
yeah
what kind of restaurants do you like
or what do you look for
uh_huh
yes
yeah
that's a big plus
i've got a two year old and a four year old
so uh i i need some place that
well actually i've got very well behaved kids
but i need some place
yeah
everybody tells me they're [angels] so you know
i guess i just expect it
so i'm not well yeah
they're good
actually no
i hate going to mcdonalds
we only go for very very special occasions because i don't think they need to get used to that right now
i actually like mexican
and um there's not really a place up in the garland or richardson area that i like to go
but you mean that i found that is not real expensive
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
we've we've been going there for like oh i'd say about fifteen or twenty years because we i used to go there with my parents every wednesday night [yea] i do like that one
no
i haven't
i've never been there
think that would be good
um um
ooh that would be good
now we've been to pappasito's up there on central
they're good
but they're a little pricey
they're they're pretty good
but when you take four people to dinner it gets like pretty expensive
i know
well this is true
boy
no kidding
no
i've heard of it is it wonderful
oh
oh it's
oh so is it kind of a continental kind of
ooh
ooh
that sounds good
yeah
yeah
i think i would like to splurge too
it sounds wonderful
because i've had the flu
and it's like
i can't eat
but now this is making me hungry now like um have to go home and make steak dinner
yes
yes
i think so
oh well now i'm i'm we're pretty much mexican we when we do go out normally we like to leave the kids at home
so we can like go out and not have to fight the children
i mean like i said they are good
but there's only so much that kids that age can
sit still for
yeah
yeah
oh i know we found one restaurant uh string bean up on belt line
or spring valley or somewhere
they've got a little kids room
which is nice because it's got games
it's got a couple of video games and toys and it's like here honey you take the kids in there
while i just kind of stop
let me just relax and you take the kids while we're waiting for supper and it works great
yeah
it it's real good
and it's not just extremely loud in there which a lot of places are when you take kids
so it's um pretty much like that on
oh i do too
especially for their prime rib
oh
it is part of the family yes
yeah
we i like to go there
we don't go there very often
but i do like to go there just because it's nice to really be [cuddled] and that's what i feel like i'm getting there
yeah
oh me too
yes
we went to steak and ale one night and there was a family at the table next to us that it was somebody's birthday
and the girl went nuts this girl was probably two years old
maybe
she went [ballistic] because they started singing happy birthday
and apparently she has some kind of a hearing problem anytime she hears loud noises it really affects her real bad
and so she just starts screaming and just going off the deep end
and so for
and that night
there were birthdays everywhere because it was my birthday too
well i know
oh i tell you i thought uh this is a great topic for me because i love to eat out my husband says i'd eat out every meal if i could
um i like well my favorite restaurant
in the whole uh dallas area is uh [siciliano's] a taste of italy
i love italian food
and they have wonderful garlic rolls and all of their entrees are wonderful
have you ever heard of that place
there's one on arapaho
right at the intersection of arapaho and [jupiter] and then there's one i live in garland
yeah
there's another one over here
real close to my house at walnut and [shiloh] but they've built some more
there's one over in the hurst area of fort worth
and
yeah
yeah
it is the atmosphere is okay
i mean it's kind of dark and has candle lit tables and that kind of thing
but it's not a real fancy place you know it's just the food is just really exceptional
and they give you real big quantities
and all their entrees come with like a salad and soup and all the rolls you can eat and so by the time you get your food you're already full
yes
oh
oh well you could go there
what i do
sometimes for lunch
is uh just just get like soup and salad
and eat their garlic bread because it's so delicious
yeah
yeah
well um what's your favorite place
oh you like mexican i like that too
oh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well that's neat
yeah
well that's my main thing too
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
that is a real noisy place
i've only been there a couple of times
but the the times i was there
i felt like my head was [echoing] and i was trying to talk
yeah
yeah
yeah
i know what you're talking about
well we have a a restaurant down here a lot of people won't even eat there
but we like it it's pancho's have you ever been there mexican buffet
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
well they have a chili [relleno] or chili [relleno] uh_huh
they're really good
and they uh the plates the thing i like about this place is they bring you all the chips and stuff you can eat
plus they bring [sopapillas] as many as you want
so you know a lot of places you have to order that separately yeah
oh it's really nice
and the children eat free we have two kids
and one of them eats free the other one's up above that age
but she still gets a you know reduced price
yeah
so it's a real good deal for a family to go and you can just really get full
yeah
well i like i really prefer to go you know some place where i sit down and someone waits on me
but uh my kids of course both love mcdonalds and uh burger king anything that's got a place to play
so i spend time at those places too because i know how much they enjoy we go to show biz a lot
do you have children
oh show biz is the [noisiest] place you can imagine
right
that's right
it
they have a wonderful area to play you know they have big balls and games and rides and i mean all kinds of stuff
it's like a little bitty amusement park in there
and it's really fun
they have these uh [puppets] that get up and sing and dance
you know so it's real entertaining for the kids and the food is good
they have real good pizza there
uh_huh
right
have it at home
yeah
yeah
i know i don't like domino's either
yeah
yeah
well i've just never cared for for their pizza at all
we have a little caesar's down here
yeah
yeah
it's really good and very uh you get a good quality for the money you pay
so
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh you do
is it northeast
or
where do you like to go to eat out
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
well my wife and i go to this place in denton texas called rocco's it's a italian restaurant
and uh well i guess the first time i went there is about eight years ago
i had just moved back from florida
and went over there you know with my parents
and uh when my wife and i got married we had our our wedding dinner there
and uh one of the things i like most about rocco's is the people there are real people
you know they're not all you know [hoity] [toity] and all that good stuff
sure
excellent service uh the food is is always hot
there's always enough
you know
i hate when i go to a restaurant
i spend twelve bucks for a meal
and you know i got to spend another twelve bucks to find the appetizers
yeah
yeah
i got cans in my [cupboard] uh
well uh let me put it this way the nearest seven eleven is about forty miles
yeah
we're out in the country
and uh fast food for me is fuel you know it's like i buy the cheapest stuff i can find that will hold me over until i can get home
usually i don't go to fast food places
because if i leave the house
i generally pack my own lunch
i i cannot stand cardboard food
you know
you know it's nothing fancy for lunch
but i you know i got celery and carrots and and [pears] and apples and uh
yeah
that's real food you know my wife will make me either
you know like a ham sandwich
or
turkey sandwich or something like that
you know we raise [hogs] and butcher our own meat
so we have a wide variety of stuff available
yeah
yeah
do you go to restaurant row
got you your mcdonald's your pizza inn your taco bell
and uh burger king
and [sonic] and all that
well that's yuppie food
it makes you have to eat bran
yeah
i went to see my doctor the other day
and he gave me you know two pieces of news one was good one was bad
the good
the bad news was i was going to die
the good news is that i uh i i don't have to eat bran muffins or jog
well you know uh have you seen any of the statistical reports on the the
well yeah
they say you might extend your life oh three or four months
but it takes three or four months to get in shape
so whoops
i've got a call
so what type of restaurant do you like
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
now do are indian foods kosher
uh_huh
right
i was about to say i didn't think so
but most of the most of the the vegetarian indian meals
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh definitely chinese would
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
because pastas and the and the different types of sauces and things
sure
yeah
which is of right now we don't have one
uh_huh
you know my wife and you would probably love to go eat together
yeah
oh definitely
well when we go someplace they have to have good french fries
if they don't have good french fries you know if it's one of if it's a place that has other things
if it's not that then we go to chinese food you know
i order you know a beef and broccoli or or chicken and broccoli or something like that you know chicken and cashews and she orders um bean [curd] and and vegetables right
you know
so um you two would probably eat real well together
yeah
she she normally picks all of our restaurants though
yeah
well we really we really don't do that that often um
i i guess recently we did um i get when we got engaged last summer
um we went for fine dining because we were sort of [celebrating] and we went to the annapolis area which is um annapolis maryland
it it's uh state capital
but it's also on the water
so there's a lot of restaurants there
it's uh it's a uh very [trendy] resort type town
but the
my wife lived in annapolis for a short time
and uh she really liked this one restaurant
it was it's french
but it was really good everything in it was very [garlicky] and their big specials are things like um very fancy [omelets] or very fancy [crepes] and then they also have a lot of other uh french oriented uh meals and i normally get something that's crepe and very american and then she gets something french yeah
but um yeah
but
yeah
definitely
definitely
yeah
but most of the time when we go out um we either go mexican because uh uh she just has a a need for either some type of mexican chips or mexican pizza or something like that
or french fries you have to you have to have french fries with just about every meal unless you're eating something other you know some other uh
right
yeah
um yes
yeah
we just had salmon last night for dinner uh
but also the spices here um old bay is a spice i don't know if you're even aware of it
it's what they used on the
uh if you ever hear of the maryland steamed crabs
okay
well old bay is the spice they put on the steamed crabs
well true male [marylander's] have have old bay on just about everything
they put it on their french fries they'll put it in their potato salad
they'll um they'll they'll put it with just my wife loves old bay with everything
so if we have french fries they have to they have to have old bay on them
right
yeah
yeah
well see i i grew up in pittsburgh uh where heinz ketchup is
and my fan was big ketchup yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
we do the same
uh_huh
no
you get a couple
yeah
it's not a real meal
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
we're the same because i'm in graduate school
and we're living off her salary
and my and my part time work you know it's not
our the restaurant our favorite restaurant in the town of salisbury where actually we live you know where my where i'll return to my job or whatever
we can normally eat out for um under fourteen dollars
and that's you know that's the two of us having
unlimited french fries
and uh it may be a mexican pizza sometimes both
together
um along with
and see it which is really funny too you know normally she goes straight for vegetables except when she's having french fries
then i'll order like a vegetable soup or something you know
but she'll just have the french fries you know
no
no
in fact we're very environmental so we very rarely eat at any of the fast food restaurants
uh just because of the um the styrofoam and the plastic waste
and whatever we very rarely will eat at a uh a fast food restaurant
i will
i'll eat at one more often because of graduate school and being on the road more
but um yeah
she almost refuses you know to do that in fact we're at a point now where if we do a salad bar at the grocery store
we save the same plastic container
and we
yeah
we take it with us back to the store
and bring it home
yeah
and we take yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
well that's a really good idea
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
we we've used the same uh you know tin bottom with plastic top
probably for the past oh i don't know six months
yeah
so so we're very you know we try to be very environmental and in fact it's terrible now because um i guess we've donated money to a number of organizations
and you know we're in school
i'm in school
and we're just barely surviving here
and and we get calls now from like world wildlife [federation] like demanding a hundred dollars
yeah
and when you say
but we're in uh we're in graduate school we can't afford that you know they they say well how about twenty seven
how about ten you know
yeah
so
uh_huh
yeah
we do all we can now
but that it you know i think that also goes along uh the reason why we pick the restaurants that we go to
you know
we we really we really look at restaurants now there's one other little restaurant in town that we'll go to that is um sandwiches and chips and a pickle you know
but you still and that's five fifty
but if you go to a fast food restaurant you're going to spend four fifty
and you're going to produce a lot of styrofoam and a lot of plastic
so we you know we'll go there
instead of you know just going to a fast food place
uh_huh
yeah
i do too
uh_huh
yeah
i i agree
yeah
yeah
no
no
oh
oh
jeez
i'll tell laura about that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's really see
because a lot of times we'll order a pizza we'll just get a regular cheese pizza or um uh we just recently got married
so my wife got a uh a heavy duty mixer like a [kitchenaid] or something like that
it's called
so she's make she makes dough pizza dough and freezes it
and then takes it out before i get home for the weekend
because [pizza's] probably one of my most favorite food
yeah
and she'll make that for the weekend
and she'll make you know we'll have two pizzas mine will be regular tomatoes and um [mozzarella] and monterrey jack cheese you know sprinkled on it
and [hoselebee] you know something uh more gourmet but more you know with
yeah
more with what you like
she loves broccoli and spinach
and i think uh
she
i don't think she's ever probably thought of that
uh_huh
yeah
so it's it's just regular it's just tomatoes
well i think we're very fortunate because uh in the past twenty years washington has really developed a a good number of quality restaurants uh mostly although you have your normal continental we've gotten the excellent ethnic restaurants um we have ethiopian restaurants we have latin american restaurants um you know besides the normal range of french and italian and things like that
so uh we try to because i am italian background
and my husband is chinese we really try to uh experience quite a bit of difference in cooking styles
oh god
yeah
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my
well what
uh_huh
is it continental
it is french uh_huh
uh_huh
and i'm sure it's quite
i'm sure it's quite pricey
oh
so it's a price fixed
and you go in for the menu that they have
yeah
yeah
oh that's interesting
uh_huh
what kind of food
do you like
any any specific place
and and you're adventuresome
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well we're very fortunate
we have we have two sons and ever since they were even very little
they we very adventuresome
i mean they tried [frogs] legs
an and they tried rabbit and all sorts of things
so uh we've never had to have the problem of picky [eaters] and
uh_huh
oh well they they've been they've been adventuresome since they were
i mean even preschoolers they'll they tried anything
yeah
so um it's been it's been great
and uh of course in the area of maryland where we are of course crabs are one of our big [delicacies] and
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh i know
but you get some other kinds of fish that are just wonderful
i know that you have [abalone] out there
there's nothing to i mean fresh [abalone] is wonderful
yes
yes
but uh you know baltimore also is a wonderful eating city
okay
and [baltimore's] got some great dining areas it's got little ethnic communities little pockets of [ethnicity] in the city
and it's absolutely marvelous the it's sort of one of these [underrated] cities
and they're some great restaurants there um it there are mostly um besides the little ethnic things you've got your great seafood places
and there's one great german restaurant there called hausners the owners of which um traveled all over the world
and this place is room after room of art so that you feel you're in a museum except it's completely over done
and it's it's a real place to bring people for something to talk about
and it's a very german restaurant
they've got the whole gamut of german dishes
so uh when we go out i guess we look as you said you like to try when you were young something different
we try to go out for either two things something to make it a [festive] occasion and to try something very unusual or else we go back to a few of our uh for chinese restaurants we usually follow the chef if we know the [chef's] in a restaurant and what their specialties are so there are certain chinese restaurants
this is something i learned from my husband where you only eat certain things
and uh other things that they don't produce in you know in quality
but other other chinese restaurants you would eat other things
so uh we we do tend to eat out at least once a week sometimes more although with two sons in college now that may be it may be a little less
yes
it certainly is
so uh what's what's your major consideration when you go out to dinner
uh_huh
yeah
which would so it's fun to find good food for a reasonable price too
uh_huh
oh that's
oh well how tempting uh_huh
yeah
yeah
we have to we have to drive any restaurant where we're not in walking area of any even a store
so we do have to drive
but you know within a um fifteen twenty minute drive we have a whole span of of restaurants that we can chose from and unless you go into downtown washington and the elegant areas uh even the some of the areas in you can get very reasonable and very tasty meals and uh hausners hausners h a u s n e r s uh_huh
yeah
if you ever get out there
well i enjoyed talking with you too
yes ma'am
that's my understanding
sure thing
uh_huh
well what i look for in in a good restaurant is a combination of uh uh atmosphere
and uh uh tasty food and uh uh competitive price
and uh uh in the in the locate where i live is there are several uh good restaurants within a three mile area of our our residence so we we have quite a quite a choice to you know choose from
and uh uh i guess the most the most
i look for is the the [tastiness] of of the meal
closely followed by the the uh whether the place is clean and and uh the the the servers are uh how do i put it uh
customer oriented
uh_huh
well that's
they beat on us to be [coactive] out out at the office
so i got to everybody else does too
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh well that's no mistake
that's that's just fine
but see he did that on purpose
because i do
well that's all right
he uh you're worth
you're worth every penny of it
well i know
so my sweetie is worth every every penny of it
in fact about every other uh uh anniversary
i take her to the uh top of the tower antares the antares restaurant
yeah
the antares oh yeah
i've heard about it
but never gone
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
for two people what would an average meal uh
okay
well we don't [imbibe] so
uh_huh
yeah
okay
uh_huh
yes
well you're not supposed to on special occasions that's that's not allowed
uh you're supposed to go
and uh have a good time
and you know let let wisdom be the be the [watchword] but don't look at the you know what's well you know you have to walk a uh have a balance
in all things
oh that's true unless you have hit uh ed ed must ed mcmahon has delivered to you
a check for ten million dollars
roger uh another neat place up close to uh the main the t i plant is the uh the the [sheraton] hotel
across from uh the center buildings
has got a real [neato] restaurant up on the uh twenty first or twenty second floor
oh well
pardon me
yeah
they have different uh you know the steak uh uh fish categories and i think there's some poultry and i'm not not sure what all
but uh every last bit of it was delicious
the last the last time i had one of these conversations i you know discovered that i my tastes
and and and the other persons were very different uh uh i my my own uh
um well sort of yuppie places
i guess is probably the best way to describe them um places that are comfortable and have sort of unusual different foods
um where where what do you find particularly good atmosphere wise
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that sounds different
i've seen things like that in movies
but it don't recall having ever been to a ever even close to a restaurant where that was an option
huh
huh
yeah
the
yes
yes
yeah
that sure is
now can i top that can i even come close
sure enough um
uh this week
it's been chinese food five days in a row
so
um but normally not not so not so concentrated um um southwestern cuisine um you know
new york deli kinds of stuff
uh you know it covers you know quite a range
i mean the the only thing i find difficulty with is is these raw fish things um
how do you have red [lobsters] in texas in the middle of texas
yeah
i would have thought they would come out of out of the water somewhere
crawling around on the on the around dallas
oh oh oh i'm sorry
oh i'm sorry i thought you were talking about a kind of food
red lobster yes
the the chain
yes
thank you never mind
well it's it's um it's a combination of a lot of things
i mean there's sort of a value [quotient] i mean i i you know there's no absolute dollar limit that you know is either
okay
or not
okay
but it's it's more like gee this is a really good you know you got a lot for your money either one of your quality or interest or and service
and uh yes
do you prefer to have men or women as servers uh_huh
why is that
yes
yeah
i've never been to mexico what
how how how are the how is the food in mexico compared to what we find in mexican restaurants
yeah
compared to what we have in this country
uh_huh
uh_huh
i i i think i probably have a slight preference for for male servers but but not very great
um you know it's the the quality of service is is important
and it and it's and it's
i don't think that that's
i don't [correlate] that with [genders] um
i think i think it really it might actually just be that you know some some restaurants more of one than another
it may just be the restaurants
i go to
uh_huh
how how did you like being a waiter or waitress that's that's what my impression is
and and and being a chauffeur that isn't also hard work
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i i enjoy going out
but my husband goes out for dinner a lot with his company you know with his work
so it's something that i end up kind of experimenting with with my girlfriends or maybe taking my girls out when he's gone
and and so we end up usually finding something that's uh quick service
and uh that's hopefully economical
and uh certainly tastes good
i hate to uh pay any kind of an amount
and then have the food be real mediocre uh as far as to really go out for an evening though i do like to have a place that's not real real formal but kind of on a formal side just because usually their atmosphere is more on a quiet atmosphere and it's real relaxing and then uh the quality of food is usually kind of is affected by how the mood is set so
uh i guess my favorite kind of foods would be uh the ones that
well i don't know favorite is just going out for a good good hearty steak
but i i find it amazing around here we don't have too many good steak houses it doesn't seem and i i find that amazing being in texas
i'm from another state originally
and i always thought texas was supposed to be such a good meat state
and it seems to be a tough thing to do is to find a place that cooks up a real good [juicy] steak
oh really
uh_huh
huh
huh
yeah
it's kind of an interesting approach
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's what we have too
and yeah you do have to kind of decide well are we
there to get a good meal and and just be comfortable as a family
or are we looking to spend a lot of time and a lot of money
which doesn't work with kids
so what would make you go back to a good restaurant
uh_huh
uh_huh
and do you find that when you have children that it's it really makes uh you can really tell the difference between a good and a mediocre restaurant by the way they treat you with kids
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
we have a restaurant over here called [gershwin's]
that has a piano player always during your [mealtime] and it it just makes for a real [classy] feel
and uh it kind of carries over the conversations next to you
so you're not concentrating what someone else is saying next to you
but i mean you know at the next table
but just within your own little group
so it makes for a nice nice place to go
oh yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well sounds good
no
i think we covered everything
well thank you for being home
uh i don't know uh medium priced restaurants usually
not anything too nice because we have a four year old
so i usually like things that cater to children
yeah
and are loud
so when he gets loud
it's not too
it doesn't bother the other people
lots of fast food too
i hate to admit it
but oh yeah
yeah
then we go to some place nicer quieter uh_huh
yeah
there's uh [birraporettis] is one of our favorites it's real nice
it's italian
it's nice and dark and quiet
so it just kind of depends on the occasion
what do you like to do
so that's just like every day food for you
huh
oh
um
yeah
hers probably would be the best
oh yeah
thirty nine cents or whatever for those little [tacos] yeah
my son likes those yeah
yeah
and it tastes pretty much
i mean i like the way it taste good
and it's fast
i like that too
well i have to cut this short
but i think i'd better get back to work
so
thanks for calling
bye
bye bye no
okay
uh_huh
my mother used to work at the plano location
i think she moved back down into closer into dallas
so
okay
let me
let me let me hit one
hold on just a second here
okay
uh_huh
okay
uh my favorite
i have a lot of favorites
i like to try a lot of different things uh there's very few foods that i don't like i don't like asparagus and beets and anything else i can pretty much eat uh recently i went to a french restaurant and i had something called uh spinach [fettucini] and crawfish
and it was so delicious
i've been talking about it
it's my birthday
and i've been talking about it ever ever since
it's been about a week now i've been talking about this plate of food and uh the real important part of it for me in a restaurant is the service uh in this particular french restaurant was our problem to be going back again and again uh there were three waiters that waited on the entire restaurant
they just all kept an eye on all the tables
and something that really impressed me was that i asked one waiter for butter and then the next second a different waiter brought the butter out and and they hadn't even talked or anything
and it was it was really amazing
and so that really [impresses] me the service in a restaurant
uh_huh
exactly
uh_huh
uh_huh
and that's probably not a chain restaurant
i find that most most family owned restaurant or or single restaurant you get the best service simply because that restaurant belongs to somebody
it it it has the family name on it
and so whoever's in there is going to take care of you as opposed to going into a chain restaurant where they're just hiring you know people out of that really don't probably don't care too much about the establishment so they're not going to worry about taking care
of you whereas someone that actually is there that owns it that you know has been working there for twenty years or so
they want
they want you to be happy so you get the service
and you know of course with that will come the good food
uh_huh
exactly
exactly
uh_huh
the guy that took me out to this french restaurant he works in a hotel nearby
and he just happened to mention to the waiter that he sends a lot of the people from the hotel over to the guy's restaurant
and and at the end of our meal you know we're ready to go and we're full
and this guy sends us a platter of each dessert
that the restaurant has so it was like ten desserts on one plate and he just gave it to us to eat
of course we couldn't eat it
but you know he just did this
and so the next time when we come in he'll probably remember us
just because we looked so weird at the you know
but that that was
exactly
exactly exactly
one of my favorite restaurants is steak and ale now
that's a chain sort of a chain restaurant
but they seem to i like i like atmosphere myself
and and their food is good
and i really like the salad bar
and that that gets me in a restaurant if there is really good salad bar
because i love salads and [soups] and things like that
right
right uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
did you just recently try it
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
all right
wow
maybe i need to get me wok and have some people over
uh_huh
right
right
uh
probably that it heats up real good
and
uh_huh
uh
and that was on a television advertisement one of them nineteen ninety five
deals
yeah
okay
that
sounds good
yeah
i don't like i've tried probably just about everything just because i don't like to
you know i don't i hate one thing i hate to do in a restaurant is to be with someone that want try things
because i'm also wanting to anything that they have
i will try and uh you know sometimes i may not like it
but i feel like i miss out you know if i had gone a long time without trying chinese food
i would have had to try it one day
just because i hate to miss out
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
the little crunchy things i never know what they are
i just call them the [crunchers] so
uh_huh
um
that sounds good
i love catfish
uh_huh
and i love shrimp
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh
right
right
right
uh yeah
i don't like scallops too much
they have
they have kind a funny taste i can eat them
but they're
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i'm originally from new york
i grew up there
so i got to eat a lot of uh
i mean just fresh fresh i mean one one day we were out just driving and they are always uh oriental people with their little stands and they're selling things
and we decided we were going to buy this thing we didn't know what it was
we got in the car and opened it up and started eating it
and it was really really good
and we figured out that it was [octopus] you know
and so we all find of [freaked] out
but you find all kinds of seafood things in up there where all the uh [harbors] are and things
yeah
yeah
yeah
there's not a whole lot of taste
it's just basically meat and there's not a lot of taste not a lot to eat not to like
you know so unless you think it's bland
or something
um
now that's something i may not try
yeah
i've heard that's good
i've heard frog legs are good
i haven't had any of those yet
so i'll have to try those one day
uh_huh
exactly
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh
uh_huh
right
right
um i think my favorite meat is lamb no
i think i think it's it's got
i like the texture of it is why i like it
not so much the taste
but the it's not real [chewy] or
i mean it's just real good to me i can't really
describe why
but
yeah
i like veal too
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh
yeah
that sounds about what we
i mean we go out to places
i mean we don't go to places where we all dress up and all that
you know and all that
we try to get uh you know some place that you know that's a little better than home and all
but you know it's not going to cost a ton of money either
huh
oh yeah
no
i'm in uh maryland
well i'd go there
all five
i mean how how old are the kids
that's pretty impressive
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
we're we're having a kid in october
and it's like well you know no more
no more eating out for a while
uh_huh
oh that's incredible
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
we've got we've got to look around here
find out if there's anything like that around here
yeah
oh yeah
i mean we just we're like well we're not going out for a while
you know my folks live close you know fairly close here
so it's like well we if we're going out to dinner we can drop the kid off at my folks
and it's like oh great grandpa you know
yeah
there's um there's a place i live just outside of baltimore in a town called [olicott] city
and uh there's a seafood place here called the crab [shanty] that's really good
it's like rated higher than like the the seafood restaurants down in the inner harbor in baltimore you know the the [trendy] section of baltimore
and uh you know we've eaten there
sometimes and it's pretty good
it's you know it's a little more expensive than than i normally like to spend plus the other thing is i'm not uh i'm not a big seafood fan
so you know it's like great
we go to the crab [shanty] and i'm going to have veal you know
not that bad
there's some
well actually we've been we end up doing a lot is uh there's a couple of places around that are like uh yuppie i mean it it seems like a big thing now with uh with diners uh
yeah
there's um there's a place up in my my folks actually live up in delaware
and there's a place up there that we like to go to called um the hop which is you know just a fifties diner basically
and then there's um a chain around here called silver diner um
and you know you
and uh let's see
there's another one up in uh just north of baltimore called ralphie's diner
yeah
i'm uh i'm a baseball fan
i you know my my girlfriend's like you know she she puts up with me being a baseball fan you know
but uh we go we walk into this place ralphie's diner and i look on the wall
and there's like uh like a relief of the of of the guy who ralphie's diner is named after and it turns out he used to work for the orioles
and she's like no not more baseball
but um all these places you know you can get like you know a hamburger or um you know
um i've had turkey and [meatloaf] at all these diners and you know we usually get out of there for around twenty bucks you know it's good food and everything
and um you know you get [malts] or whatever
so it's really good
you know my only big gripe is every time i've gone to silver diner i have tried to get the banana cream pie
and they they are always out
uh_huh
oh
sorry
well neither of us are big wine [drinkers] yeah
we went out tonight
and i had a you know i had a beer and and you know obviously since you know she's we're not we've been kind of laying off the alcohol since she's expecting and all that
um
but i mean even before i mean usually we you know we might have a beer but that's about it
so
yeah
yeah
there are
yeah
yes
i've seen them
i know that uh [cici's] has [margaritas] in big glasses like that
oh oh
yeah
well i i i would i mean you know they've got them out here because it's you know
they don't actually know what you know what mexican
food is here
yeah
huh
yeah
i was going to try i um years ago um we we're uh my folks were um we were visiting los angeles or something
and i remember being taken to a real fancy mexican restaurant there called [senor] something
[senor] [pico] or something like that and you know i hated everything
at the time i just hated mexican food
i'd i'd love to go to some place like that now
where it's you know a real mexican
restaurant
because i like it
i um i like chinese and i should experiment more the problem is that my favorite food in the world is cashew chicken
so any time i go to a chinese restaurant
i want cashew chicken
uh_huh
i was just thinking the same thing
it's like we haven't had chinese in a while
let's have a shake up
we get this uh there's this take out chinese place
that i mean you know [stone's] throw from my apartment here
and uh we can get they do this thing for dinner for two where we can get like um [kung] [pao] chicken
you know it's a big you know container full [kung] [pao] chicken
um pork fried rice
two egg rolls and like you know i don't know a pint or two [pints] or whatever
of uh of uh [wonton] soup and it's like twelve fifty
yeah
it's great
we should have done that tonight
um
uh_huh
there's um i'm trying to think there's a french restaurant real close
but we've never gone there because i'm not
oh i'm you know i'm not a big french
you know i i don't eat
yeah
well i also i also don't do [snails] so
well wayne i've never done any uh auto repairs myself at all  
i mean i may have screwed in a little screw that looked like it was falling out on the door or something  
but uh i personally haven't done anything  
maybe i've uh changed [wiper] blades or something  
but i have noticed since uh i got married that my husband he hates to do auto repairs  
but he would rather do them himself than than to pay someone else  
i guess he can't make himself pay someone to do the repairs when he knows he knows how to do it  
and he'll do it  
so he he hates the time that he takes  
but he has changed um the brakes  
and he has done all of the tune ups  
and the like that  
and recently he changed the steering mechanism in the car  
i was really impressed with that  
we had to have it to get the car inspected  
it wouldn't pass inspection  
and and so he priced around  
and everyone wanted several hundred dollars for it  
so he thought well i can get one in a junkyard for like fifty dollars which he did  
and then he did it  
and so i guess uh he's been pretty good about keeping our cars up  
what uh what's your experience been like  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that makes sense  
huh yes  
right  
uh_huh  
yes  
i'm sure it was  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
well that's exactly the way he feels is that he really hates to spend the time  
it takes a lot of time  
if he if he thinks it's going to be two hours it's four if you know whatever it always takes him twice as long  
but then when he's finished he's he always says well now you owe me three hundred dollars  
and then he thinks that he has the money that that he can spend on something  
and he hasn't given it to someone else  
so he gets some satisfaction out of that although generally i think he he does not look forward to or anticipate  
there's some people that enjoy [tinkering] around on cars  
there's a lot of people  
and he just isn't one of them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
no  
uh_huh  
right  
you know that it's uh really has a bad reputation is to feel that that people in general feel and have have [rightly] so i think been [cheated] many times  
and um and well i know once when we had a  
we usually inspection time we find out there's something wrong with our car  
but um once the muffler needed to be changed  
and uh he had looked at him himself  
and but we saw a commercial for like fourteen or twenty dollars or something for a change  
he said that's really really good  
so he went in  
and uh but when they quoted him a price they really wanted fifty or something  
anyway but the car that the muffler people had um my at least my husband felt that they had damaged the muffler further you know  
they had [punctured] a big hole in it when it really could have just been [patched] or whatever  
and so since then i don't think he's ever even seriously considered a you know any kind of job he thought he could do himself  
but i know from his childhood he says that his father always buys and [restores] cars just as entertainment i guess  
and um so kelly growing up he he felt like that that was a good way on [saturday's] that he developed a good relationship with his father  
and so he used they used car repairs kind of as a way to have a you know something that they did together  
and he thought that turned out pretty good because it you know it helped him to understand and be functional now  
and it helped him to have a close relationship  
so that's one one way he looked at it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it didn't always work  
well i felt um i feel like i could myself do some things but that i have enough responsibility that if i have someone like my father when i was living at home and my husband that's willing to do it i go ahead and let them do it  
i don't feel the need to um you know be a [feminist] on that issue and say i can take care of my own things  
i'm i'm happy to let them run the cars because i have so many other responsibilities that um  
so i haven't tried to do a lot myself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's a good experience  
it helps you feel i think comfortable with your car and feel like it's not so scary if um your driving it and you might get stranded somewhere that you might you think well i've i've been under that hood  
and i know what's going on  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i uh i have a long experience with cars  
i uh when i was younger uh my brother had a corvette  
and i bought a corvette  
and when you have a corvette you more or less do all the work  
and i've done everything from build the motor from the uh you know the bare block on up  
and i i'm the same way as your husband is when it comes to my car i hate to go pay somebody good money you know  
i hate to pay somebody twenty five dollars on hour for something i can do myself  
it just to me it makes absolutely no economic sense to do that  
in fact i um just this past weekend put new plugs in both uh my car an my wife's car  
and so i uh i pretty much try to [troubleshoot] and do everything i can do myself  
but i've i've gotten to the point in my life um you know i just crept over forty years old where i don't want to crawl underneath the car anymore  
i mean it's um i don't know whether i've i've just reached a point you know  
it's it's real rough in the winter time  
and uh so i try to make sure that uh by the time fall runs around because we actually have winters here on the east coast um   that uh i have you know the car's in pretty good shape enough to last through the winter  
and uh then springtime i usually end up giving them the uh a tune up and make sure that they're running well  
and uh you know it's like i had the muffler go out on my on my car shortly before it was required to go  
in maryland they have uh emission tests  
and you're required to get your car and go through the emission test  
well my muffler of course starting going bad right before i was supposed to go to the emission test  
so you know i had to do that job  
and of course that was back in december when it's nice and cold outside  
but the thing was that i could do the job myself  
i mean the parts cost me oh roughly a hundred dollars  
um if i'd taken it someplace and have it done it was going to be three hundred twenty five  
now like who's got that extra two and a quarter  
i know i don't  
yeah  
yeah  
i uh i don't mind it  
um there was a time when i had my corvette  
i mean of course i loved it um  
but if you know  
i've got other interests now  
and there's a lot other more important things i think i should be doing with my time  
and i have the same problem  
i mean you can tell him from me  
but it doesn't matter  
i mean i've i've had greasy [fingernails] for years  
and it still takes me twice as long as i think it's going to take to do the job  
so but i think the difference is that uh when you own the car you take more care in what you're doing  
and you want to make sure that it's done right and put back together right  
and you know i've i've in the past i've had brake jobs done by someone that when i went back and looked at it some months later i'd find something drastically wrong with it   you know like a spring that was put in incorrectly which could have resulted in brakes failing and me having an accident   you know those kind of things  
and when you have a vehicle that's being used by you know other members of your family you know you don't want that kind of a situation to come up  
and it's very very difficult to find a mechanic these days that you can trust  
i only have one guy that i know that i trust to work on my car  
and uh he's about sixty miles from here  
and so it  
and if i have something that's really major that i can't handle or feel i don't have the time to handle i'll take it to him to do it  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's probably uh uh something that uh is is you know is good for both of them  
i know that uh my older son i could never get him interested in cars  
and i couldn't you know  
i just like you know  
you sure you're a boy  
i mean your not interested in cars  
i mean he he just would not have anything to do with them  
and uh later on and like when he you know grew up got out of the house got his own car um he didn't know how to do anything to it i mean absolutely nothing  
i mean he couldn't even check the oil  
i mean that's that's how [uninformed] he was and disinterested  
and i guess there are some people out there like that um you know  
i always thought maybe you know if he took more of an interest and you know what i was doing  
and maybe we could have communicated better  
but uh yeah  
i i think that's great  
uh i trained my uh my wife in the in in doing things  
in fact uh when i uh first transferred down to uh texas instruments back in nineteen eighty seven   um uh when i left here uh she had to change a set of plugs on the car   because she was up here for a month or so after i was  
and uh it was an interesting experience for her  
i mean she'd always [assisted] me and done some other things  
but for her to actually get in there and do it herself it was uh it was something a little different  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it's important that everyone know you know basically how how the darn engine works  
it helps you figure out what's wrong with it   you know  
i've i've been out with my sister before when you know her car died on the highway  
and i happened to be with her and managed to get her to the other side of the road because it was dark and all  
i don't know what the the last thing i've done as far as car repairs go is is change oil and filter an and that kind of stuff  
i haven't gotten really involved in anything uh extensive in car repairs in oh oh probably a year or so  
i think the last thing i did of any significance was change the water pump on an oldsmobile  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
yeah  
or fuel injected  
and so there's  
yeah  
no  
there's no way  
somebody once said uh i had a car that said fuel injection on the side of it  
and a woman asked me what that meant  
and i said that means that i can't work on it  
you know they've gotten so complicated or so high tech that uh the guys average guys can't really go out in the in the garage and do a whole lot of repairs uh  
yeah  
absolutely  
yeah  
i used to have uh chevy van  
it was a short van   that had the the three fifty in it  
and basically it it was a motor  
and you didn't have all the other junk around it  
and you could get to it to work on it  
yeah  
the hardest part about uh water pump changes is getting all the junk off before you can get too it  
well that's kind of the way i was  
i tried to remember as i took stuff off where it went  
and i don't think i had too many nuts and bolts left over when i got it all put back together  
oh yeah   yeah  
i don't think i'd know where to start with a diesel  
well that's true  
i think the closest thing i've come to to a diesel is i've worked for a tractor repair shop uh when i was in high school  
and uh we used to overhaul farm tractors basically  
and they were nearly all all diesel  
but as far as cars i've never never been involved with them  
well yeah  
and you you can get to them  
well i  
yeah  
i'm i guess you're right  
the the diesel has almost fallen into unpopular status  
i don't know exactly why  
one of the reasons is  
i i'm beginning to wonder is where do you get gas at  
i  
i don't know if it's still uh limited like it was  
i don't notice it probably because i  
huh  
yeah  
i don't i don't notice  
but maybe because i'm not looking for it  
yeah  
but you got the the three fifty in the van  
yeah  
that's what i like because they've got plenty of power  
and uh   if you treat them right they're not the gas guzzlers i think that they've got the reputation to be  
i'm convinced that uh detroit or whoever it is made a major mistake   years ago when they stopped putting the small v eights in and went to the fours and some of the sixes  
i'm convinced that the small v eight like the the [mustang's] original two eighty nine or some of the chevy two eighty [threes]   were good little v eight engines that were not gas guzzlers  
but they had enough power pull all this weight  
and the four cylinders just don't have it  
yeah  
i think those those little v eights could have been made to be pretty powerful little engines if they would have gone with it  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's kind of like  
the the first well my first car was a fifty six mustang  
and uh over the years uh all  
i had a uh dodge pickup several years ago  
and uh i can't remember the size of the engine  
it was a three oh seven or something like that  
but uh i remember working on those cars  
you'd open the hood  
and there was basically nothing in there but an engine   and a few things  
now you open the hood and it's scary  
like you say it takes a plumber to figure out where all this stuff goes  
yeah  
yeah  
well if you had to you could climb up in there and do what you needed to  
my dad's got a new um  
i guess it's an eighty nine or ninety uh chrysler something or other  
it's one of those [transverse] [mounted] v sixes front wheel drive  
and uh he was showing it to me  
and we're looking under the hood and everything's nice and clean  
and you know you can see the three spark plugs there in the front  
and i said well where are the other three  
and he'd never really thought about it  
and he says well hopefully i won't have to change them before i trade it off  
yeah  
it's going to be a problem getting back there because it was [shoved] right up against the fire wall  
so they just about complicated the things so much that shade tree mechanics can't do much with them  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
the anti smog pumps  
and all that stuff loads the motor down  
so it's trying to push the weight plus have all this drain on it from all sorts of belts and things  
but that's one good thing  
i've got a uh eight ninety uh chevy blazer now  
and it's got one uh belt on it a [serpentine] belt  
yeah  
i haven't had to replace the thing yet  
it looks like it would be uh better than having  
i've got an an olds [toronado] that i think's got six belts on the sucker  
and i had to get all those off you know when i was replace that uh water pump  
and uh i had to struggle with that for a while to figure which belt goes where  
oh man  
you bet  
everything else's got to come off first  
well it's a pleasure meeting you  
uh i've got uh five [stickers] here from t i  
so i guess i've done probably uh i'd say seven or eight of them  
yeah  
i haven't gotten any calls in two weeks  
so i don't know if if it's [tapering] off or what  
i had a difficult time the past couple of times of getting uh answers  
so it sounds  
it's taken them ten fifteen minutes at a time  
so people are either not  

maybe they're burnt out or  
yeah  
anyway let you go  
thanks for talking  
yeah  
i had a similar thing that i've worked on cars ever since i was uh a kid  
and that was some time ago  
but i've gotten to the point where uh the newer cars are getting so complicated to work on that uh-oh most of the cars  
i buy i try to buy as simple a car as possible  
so you know changing the oil changing the spark plugs  
and most of them now you know you don't go through the [ignition] stuff anymore because that's all solid state or   or fuel injected  
so there goes the carburetor  
and if the fuel injection system breaks down   there's no way in the world you're going to work on that  
oh yeah  
yeah  
basically that's it  
yeah  
i've got uh an eighty four chevy van that's uh a one ton van with a camper conversion on it  
it's got the the the good old three fifty   standard engine in it  
regular gas engine  
and that engine i understand  
i can i can actually work on that engine  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i had to change the water pump in that here about a year ago  
and it was really fairly easy  
take the grill out and the radiator out  
and you can just stand there and work on it  
well that's true  
you're right you know  
by the time you've finally got down to it  
i was hoping i could remember where all those other things went  
a few years ago i had an oldsmobile diesel  
and uh the  
uh it  
after about a hundred thousand miles the injector pump went out on it  
and uh i bought it when we were living in lubbock  
when i came back here i brought the car back here  
and uh i don't know diesels got pretty unpopular  
and you couldn't sell the  
i mean though for what you could get for one   you might as well drive it over a cliff  
and uh the injector pump went bad  
so i found a outfit down here to rebuild it   and uh [reinstalled] that  
and that was probably one of the most miserable things i had gotten into in a long time  
oh well it you know  
diesels don't require mechanics  
they require [plumbers]  
and uh  
yeah  
well the injector [nozzle] and stuff in you know the big diesel farm tractors you know what are about the size of your thumb  
and  
yeah  
you can get to them  
and the ones in in the diesel cars were little tiny things and just almost impossible to do anything with  
i've had a lot of good service out of that car  
but uh uh i finally gave it to my son  
and he drove it literally into the ground you know  
he was out at tech  
and he he finished it off  
what  
the availability  
you mean the diesel availability  
yeah  
well i'd bought uh a g m c diesel pickup and uh loved that thing you know  
i really liked it  
but it turns out a pickup wasn't what i really needed  
and it was the van that i needed then to buy the you know  
traded it in on the chevy van  
but uh sure enjoyed it  
yeah  
yeah  
the three fifty regular gas engine  
uh_huh  
yeah  

uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that little the little chevy v eight when it started out in sixty in fifty five i think was two sixty five something like that  
little you know not whole lot more than the than the than the six cylinder that i think was like about two thirty five or so  
but uh they kept boring that block out to where you could a get a four hundred small block four hundred that was uh the same block you know just just kept boring it out and boring it out and [stroking] it a little bit more an  
well that was uh that was a short stroke engine it could really wind up  
the two little cars i've got now  
bought a mitsubishi [mirage] here a couple of years ago  
and and it was normally [carbureted]  
and it's fairly easy to work with because there's not just a whole lot in it to go wrong   and you know changing the plugs and stuff  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the friend of ours over here he's got uh sixty five or sixty six mustang the six cylinder  
and uh i was look under the hood of that the other day  
and like you say you can see the road  
it's amazing  
you yeah you could stand in there if you really wanted to i guess  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well when they went to the  
started with the newer engines you know  
when they started putting all that pollution control stuff on the older engines is where they started getting into so much you know trouble because the three fifty with all the you know  
like well actually i guess  
within a couple of years ago anyway was the last i've paid any attention to it  
the three oh five was that that   v eight that they put in the the three quarter and and half ton van  
and it had all the air pump and uh uh   i don't know all that all that stuff  
and all the anti smog stuff  
and uh boy that was uh really a mess back under there under the in that van  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh it's that one that's about uh what an inch and a half wide  
got a bunch of [groves] in it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's kind of like the inside dual on a truck  
you know when one of them breaks   it's not the outside one  
it's it's the it's usually that power steering  
or something that's way back in there  
everything's got to come off  
yeah  
and we'll uh  
how many times have you done this now  
is this  
yeah  
i hadn't uh hadn't not gotten any calls here in the last uh  
this is the first one in a week or so  
if it's [winding] down or what  
finding a taker  
yeah well  
okay  
all right  
bye bye  
are you a t i  
oh good  
yeah  
uh she   had a hard time getting a few folks uh  
i thought well every all these t i have gone home uh   at one o'clock on friday  
i i i do it a lot  
i have  
i kind of worked my way through college as a mechanic as a kid  
uh so and my father and brother were in it  
and and my brother's still in it  
and i had periods when i didn't do anything  
but in the last ten years i've uh my car doesn't go to a shop you know  
it it  
i just do it all  
do  
i uh  
there's hardly anything that other than putting tires on that i'll do  
i   did take it to a transmission place to put in a new transmission but   i change the oil and transmission  
and uh uh i do essentially do it all  
i don't know uh uh if there's anything specific  
in fact i could advise people uh  
i happen to be a m e besides  
but   i do it for fun really and to save   money  
and i guess that's diversion  
uh i i've i've tried a few groups uh you know where you  
i can recommend it for people to take their cars  
like i think sears is probably the best place  
because   i've heard when i used to go there and when i  
i just overheard what they did for me very little because i didn't take it that much  
but what i heard them tell other people was always right  
you know when i sat there i you know i dropped my car off for tires or something like that  
and so i respect  
they seem to actually have mechanics there  
i was pretty impressed with western auto  
but they didn't do a great job of changing my transmission uh oil last time  
and when   when i did it the next time i realized the filter was loose and everything  
and i didn't like it  
so i'm just doing it all myself  
i i  
you had to do it  
yeah  
right  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well you like fords apparently huh  
yeah  
really  
my goodness  
yeah  
i always wonder when you have little things like that happen why even here at t i why we don't inspect i'm in facilities why we don't inspect areas and and guarantee it so to speak uh  
we always fix things and put things in and walk away  
we  
there needs to be a time of inspection and check out  
and and thing like that with a car  
there ought to be someone there that [inspects] it before it's turned  
there ought to be an inspector or quality insurance guy   after after an oil change you know  
just   in case uh they didn't put the oil in or whatever  
i i always wonder about that when when someone does repairs or little things like that uh  
yeah  
no  
no  
i don't either  
i don't either  
yeah  
yeah  
you need to really uh  
i i do uh a lot of the simple things  
i i think i do most of the things better than the average person  
you you have fords and i i uh i have three [chevys] which  
i worked my way into having the same engine  
i don't know how long i'm  
i like a v eight  
and i'm i'm   sold on small block chevy v eights  
and i   i bought one car new  
and i almost accidentally got the next car although i was kind of looking for it when i got a a used car with the same engine  
well then the the truck i got next i definitely looked for the same engine  
so i buy filters you know three or four at a time  
and essentially   the engines are different  

the cars are different years but the same chevy v eight  
and the the [carburetors] is the same  
almost everything is the same  
the course is two are eighties and one eighty six you know  
so you can learn a lot that way  
i  
there's no way i could i could fix every car in the world you know  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think they're all bad really  
they're  
uh_huh  
is that right  
yeah  
what did they want to charge you for it  
yeah  
yeah  
this is your little water uh heater in there for the uh   the heat inside  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
did you get it   inside or outside  
i i took one off my little buick i had  
and i pretty much took it loose on the inside  
but it came out from the you know underneath the hood  
it came from  
yeah  
maybe you're right  
maybe you're right  
i  
it's been a long time since i took one out  
course i broke mine you know  
so i'm always very careful when i change hoses on it  
i don't know whether you did yours  
not to really pull on those  
i   when i take those hoses i cut them off   very [gingerly]  
because if you you know pull on that  
and i've always done that as a kid you know just yanked on it  
and they must have been stronger and heavier copper at the time  
but i broke one on my on my buick  
and i always remembered it was my own fault  
and i thought well i'm going to going to carefully take those hoses off  
oh really  
yeah  
it it spread out  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
sometimes if you're a [tinkerer] you luck out  
my wife's   uh chevy uh it was a [caprice] air conditioning stopped  
i i just heard it  
i realized that the air conditioning wasn't cutting in  
and i went out there for five minutes  
and i just pushed on the wires  
and sure enough just pure dumb luck that the connection over by  
it's not the [evaporator] the big filter on one side  
i just pushed that in and i heard it click  
and so sometimes you have dumb luck  
i i was you know  
you could have taken something like that and thought well the [compressor's] not working or it would have taken me all day probably if i didn't do that but   sometimes you have some dumb luck if you   have a little curiosity and you have enough knowledge to check things out  
i know i feel bad for people who just when anything goes wrong a fuse you know they just have to take it  
and i know   that's tough if you don't uh at least give it a shot  
i've got girls daughters and i've always said i'd teach them  
and my my one daughter was fairly interested  
and i really haven't gotten around to  
i learned because i i just uh learned you know  
and   i feel bad about not at least showing them some of the things  
and i'm going to do that  
i i told my daughters in college this year i said this summer we're definitely going to spend a little more time on the car  
i said so you can learn the basics you know  
yeah  
right  
i have the  
there's one expression i don't like uh the country expression you know if it ain't if it ain't broke don't fix it  
uh yeah  
i am  
yeah  
yeah  
i've   been uh  
i uh  
it is friday  
yeah  
that's for sure  
well uh i guess  
i'm trying to think the last thing i did to a car  
oh wow  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
that's that's the aggravating thing  
yeah  
i i try to do as much as i can  
i uh i grew up on farm so i've got that uh you know take care of yourself attitude  
and uh-oh i've done i've done various things  
i've got an i've got an eighty three t bird  
and i've i've   changed out uh heater core and   uh-oh timing belts and things like that  
um i guess the last thing i took to anybody to have done was on my wife's car um when we went in for inspection  
it didn't it didn't quite pass  
so we had to have uh  
that's uh that's a mustang with a two barrel carburetor on it  
and they had to do some adjustments on that and of course it had never been adjusted so they had to pull it off and pull all the plugs out to get to it  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've uh i'm kind of stuck on them right now i guess  
but you know that's  
it's partially because i can work on them  
that's uh   that's that's that's a big part of my decision  
but uh yeah  
we ran into some problems with uh having them to work on that carburetor  
i mean they get they got everything tuned up right you know  
but they  
we got i got it home  
and uh and they had left the uh oil uh cap off and it was [rubbing]   on a belt  
and it rubbed a notch in that  
little things like that that really start to aggravate you  
that that's a lot of the reason i do my own stuff  
uh_huh  
sure   sure  
that's   right  
sure  
yeah  

any anything that gets that that's in a gets to be an an assembly line type operation  
you're you're always risking that  
if there's too many people that get their hands on one little project you know that things they're you get you miss that overlap   sometimes  
and and they miss things  
yeah  
i've i've had a hard time finding anybody i can trust  
like like you say it it well transmissions and things like that  
i'm obviously i'm not going to i'm not going to tear apart a automatic transmission   and try rebuild it  
but uh it it's it's real stressful to try to find anybody that i think's going to do me right   and and uh you know have an idea of what's going on  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
that that  
the biggest you know that's the three biggest things to me you know  


number one you've got to have the tools around  
if you don't have the the special tools or  
well any more  
the the [testers] that you know  
i i don't have a forty thousand dollar [diagnostic] [tester] sitting   in my garage you know  
so obviously if it starts my car starts missing or something like that it's almost impossible to track that down any more   without a diagnostics  
but at the tools and the space to do it that that can be a big problem if it's if it's under [carriage] or something like that  
but then it's experience  
you know you can you can look through a a chilton's book or something like and get an idea of how to go about it  
but you better figure on [multiplying] that time out about by at least by five or so   just just by not knowing you know how to get to that that one bolt or that one   screw or whatever to get things apart  
that was that was the biggest thing when i did uh the heater core in my t bird  
that is got to be the worst location for it  
and and the only reason i did it  
i  
yeah  
yeah  
the the only ones i've ever heard good good things about are are the old lincolns and cadillacs where   they had the little door underneath the hood  
you just open the door and pop it out  
yeah  
but but uh i i had i had taken this in to have it done originally  
and uh  
oh it it was it was  
well it was about seven hours labor  
so it it was going to run about four hundred dollars or so  
and they looked it over and they they they thought they could patch it up a little bit you know and what not  
so they  
yeah  
yeah  
and it was it was leaking inside the car   in the condenser unit  
so uh they they did a little patch on it  
and it it held for about four to six months  
and i finally went back in and started looking at it myself  
and it's a matter of tearing all the dash out and all that kind of stuff  
but  
hey  
it was not uh it was not a seven hour labor   job for me  
it was about a week before i finally   through  
yeah  
oh really  
no  
this this was  
the only thing that sticks in inside the engine [compartment] on this are the two uh hose fittings  
yeah  
it it's  
i i've never heard a good story about uh  
yeah  
right  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
you bet  
well that that's what ended up being the real problem on this was the uh the the pipe wasn't busted  
but the  
it wasn't [soldered] in good enough  
and it had it had broken loose enough to where if it got hot  
and just normal driving didn't do it  
but if if if it was an especially hot day the pressure would get high enough   and it would start blowing the water out inside  
it was real aggravating  
but uh i i couldn't even  
a week's a week's time is is worth a whole lot less than four than four hundred dollars to me you know   than to have somebody else do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well yeah  

and and not only from a from an economic standpoint just just pure safety you know  
if you can   if she can get yourself out of a bad situation without having to to go to a phone booth and stand around and wait  
it it   it can it can save a lot of time and trouble  
hi  
my last uh auto repair was my my uh alternator went out  
i have a nineteen eighty six toyota uh  
it's a little tercel  
and uh i have a a friend whose real good with uh repairing cars  
so i got him to take the alternator off and take it and uh you know get a replacement part  
so we went to a uh a a place called quality auto parts  
an and their parts are supposed to be guaranteed and and everything  
and they're they're uh very reasonable  
so uh i bought the alternator  
we put it on the car  
and it it didn't work  
and it blew out all the [fuses]  
yeah  
uh i something like sixty nine dollars something on that order  
no  
he hooked it up right  
it it was just that the the part just just didn't fit the car  
so i took it back  
and uh he he took the the guy in in the parts shop took the alternator  
and he put it on the little thing he has in there to test them  
and uh he said there was nothing wrong with the alternator  
so we we went back and tried it again put it on again  
and it still didn't work  
and we took the car up to um a little place called [pep] boys  
i don't know if you have them in your area  
but uh they're they're pretty reasonable uh car repair place also  
so uh took it up there towed it up there because it you know wouldn't start or anything  
and this thing just kept blowing out the [fuses] and uh took them about an an hour to um figure out what was what was blowing the fuse  
and it was it was the alternator that was blowing the fuse  
anyway ended up taking it to the toyota dealer  
and the only problem was that uh it had to be a genuine toyota uh alternator because most of the other ones that they say will fit it that that you know they sit in there and everything  
but there's just some little difference that um causes it not to work an  
yeah  
i guess so  
and that was my that was my last experience  
uh_huh  
goodness  
are you able  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well my car is uh it's an eighty six  
and i really hadn't had any any trouble with it until that  
and the car now has a hundred and thirty something thousand miles on it  
and uh and this was just recent  
so i really can't complain about this one  
um well i used   i used to work uh  
it was a seventy mile trip everyday you know two ways was seventy miles  
no  
it was it was just seventy miles  
yeah  
and uh i did that for about three years  
and it really it really added up  
i've only taken uh maybe two trips that were about four hours long uh down to shreveport  
and uh the rest of it was you know it's just basically driving a long ways to work  
and now i drive like twenty twenty three miles each way  
so i'm getting a little a little uh little relief  
but still i drive a long ways  
but i guess because they're highway miles you know it's not so bad on your car as as if it you know were just regular street you know  
yes  
i do  
do you  
points  
uh_huh  
uh there's a number that you call  
it's the same number that you that you call to make a call  
you you call that number  
and and uh somehow or another they'll give you an option to leave a message  
and you can leave a message  
i know someone that did that  
you leave a message  
and they'll they'll call you back  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh let's see before i had this car i had a um i bought an audi five thousand  
but i bought it i bought it used  
i i just bought it from a friend who was going to who just charged me what the dealer was going to give give him for it for a trade in  
and uh it had a whole lot of miles on it  
i i figured maybe i'd get one or two years out of it  
an i an i did get a couple of good years out of it  
and the uh the engine messed up on me  
and then i gave it to a guy to repair who works for the for the audi dealer  
and uh he took the engine apart  
and you know he just said he couldn't fix it  
so the engine never got put back together again  
i  
wow  
i think those old cars   might might be a pretty good bet because you  
i don't know  
uh_huh  
um   uh_huh  
i read a book one time that said that the best cars were made before seventy four  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's easy to it's easy i guess it's still easy to find engines for those cars engines and transmissions  
and if you i guess if you keep changing them out you can keep a car for a long time  
course i guess i could do the same thing with the the toyota that i have  
i just don't know how much they'll want to charge me to  
yeah  
i guess so  
but i just think they cost too much in the in the first place now a days  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
how much was the alternator  
did he did he hook up the wiring wrong  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they probably built that in so they could make money  
well i had a weird  
there's a little sensing device uh in front of my uh um i'm not sure right in front of the fan  
it's a it's an air conditioner sensing device  
i don't know why  
it actually  
there's a metal piece that fits through the belts uh  
and somehow that broke off  
and uh i i still can't figure out how it broke  
and uh anyway so this piece obviously um  
i have a subaru  
and uh i think you can only get it through subaru dealer et cetera  
so  
uh this little sensing device [costed] like sixty bucks  
and and i haven't had too many problems with my car  
i got a eighty eight subaru g l x t  
and it  
uh and then you know just basic maintenance and oil changes  
an i and i do not do my oil changes  
and i will not do my oil changes  
i've i think the first time i tried to do one and ended up um trying to uh  
borrowed somebody else's jack  
and i did this  
and i went and bought everything  
so after buying the filter and all the oil you're looking at ten bucks at least   or somewhere in there an and uh and then to go to the trouble that i figured it's easier spending eighteen bucks at [jiffy] lube  
so that that's um you know  
as far as any maintenance on my car i i shy away from the oil changes  
that's for sure  
how did you put that many miles on it in   four or five years  
oh a hundred and forty mile trip  
oh thirty five miles each way  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you work for t i  
okay  
i was going to ask you you know as far as how we're getting compensated for what we're doing right now um  
i don't work for t i  
and i'm just i get these green  
i don't know what you want to call them fake   point things  
and uh i just wondering how i go about getting the cash  
oh okay  
okay  
okay  
all right  
well that's good to know  
i haven't been doing  
this is the first time i've been called in a long time  
and i haven't been doing it  
so  
and uh i've done it maybe twelve times  
well i don't know if i've done it quite that much  
but uh mine is mixed up too  
i have to call and get it fixed  
uh_huh  
huh oh well  
i was driving a sixty six plymouth [fury]  
yeah  
yeah  
and   oh that's when they made cars though  
this things was the body was in good condition  
and you know it ran fine  
it was starting to burn some oil  
and um but i had to you know  
you know i after about couple of months after i was out of college i finally [splurged] and bought my car  
so  
yeah  
well you know these these cars made in the sixties and stuff  
i mean the steel i mean the [thickness]  
i mean those they're just  
you just don't see cars like that  
and they last a long time  
and they were simple too  
the engines were simple and durable  
and   some people will still buy them you know  
they'll  
it almost costs so much to fix anything or do anything with it  
you're just better off buying another car  
hi  
so uh what was the last car repair you had  
oh  
oh no  
did you crack the block or what  
yeah  
i see  
you got lucky you didn't ruin the whole engine though  
that can be pretty serious  
oh i guess it's been awhile for me  
i'd  
it's been about a year  
yeah  
i had the uh the water pump break on my car  
yeah  
i was traveling uh  
i was going on my way home from thanksgiving  
and it broke like in the middle of nowhere  
so i had to get it towed and then fixed  
and  
big pain  
yeah  
that's where i was  
luckily someone came by and gave me a ride  
yeah  
yeah  
so is mine  
yeah  
i'm hoping mine gets me through  
i got until may until i'm out  
so when i cross that one i'll be okay  
oh that's nice  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't want to do too much on mine because it will be worth more than the car is  
and it's not worth it  
yeah  
yeah  
i got new tires last winter too  
so i'm like well that's the last major purchase for this thing  
it's not worth it  
yeah  
yeah  
we get some killer winters up here in the mountains  
yeah  
lot of snow and a lot of cold  
yeah  
at times there's a lot of it  
you got to like clean out the underneath of your car all the time when you get a chance  
yeah  
i haven't had a big problem with that though  
so i've been pretty lucky there  
yeah  
that's usually pretty good  
you just rinse it off after the winter is over and   done with it  
yeah  
i usually like to do most repairs on my own though  
yeah  
just because that way i know what's wrong with my car and what it needs and what it really doesn't  
yeah  
plus if something goes wrong i know who to blame  
more fun things to do  
well that's nice  
yeah  
one is bad enough  
yeah  
i was just wondering that  
yeah  
i didn't either  
yeah  
this must be a a hard category  
just recently i was kind of laughing when i when i heard the switchboard talking about the question because uh i had to have my uh radiator [flushed]  
and it was getting rusty  
and the thing that they forgot to do was to um to also look at the hose  
and i had gone about oh two days with my new radiator [flushed]  
and the hose [burst]  
so i was stranded out on the highway  
no  
i i didn't do that thank goodness  
but uh there seemed to be enough antifreeze in there you know left to do that  
but it cost me all kind of money you know to have that repaired after they said they were going to they had repaired it  
so that was that was a horrible experience   just recently  
yes  
yes  
i know  
i know  
what about you  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh oh i know i know  
especially when you're out on the highway  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know well you know uh living in dallas  
you know we've got uh bumper to bumper eight [lanes] of traffic  
and uh that was that was horrible  
you know to have the you know  
your car is [fuming]  
and everything  
it's already a hundred degrees  
you don't need that too  
oh shoot  
but my car is getting old  
see it's about six years old now  
so  
yeah  
so i got it right out of college  
and so it's uh it's starting to show the wear and tear now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that uh that was my graduation present to myself  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
so but gosh it's really starting to to wear  
so i've been thinking especially now is a good time to buy a car  

because i can't uh i don't know if i want to you know pay all these repairs now to start getting it fixed when it's starting to breakdown  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
i agree with you there  
so i don't know uh  
because i i need to have it tuned you know tuned up and i don't know replace some of the belts  
and i was looking at the uh  
tires need to be replaced  
and so i was thinking just a lot of money  
i'm  
might as well buy me a new car for that  
uh_huh  
well you have to in pennsylvania boy  
you have to really have your car [winterized] and stuff huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh okay  
so  
uh_huh  
well especially don't you have what a lot of salt on the ground  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well rust and the and the body too huh  
uh_huh  
well i think they get the new z bart stuff and everything to where you can um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and go like that so  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i i think i'm getting too old for all that  
my uh i had four brothers  
and they used to drag me out underneath the car and stuff  
so i can i can do all that stuff  
but i i think i'd much prefer to pay the twenty two ninety five to to go have it done now  
so i can get my hands dirty  
so yeah  
i'm just getting getting to that age i guess  
you just don't have  
your time becomes very precious  
so working on the car is just not one of those things i want to spend my time on anymore  
absolutely absolutely  
so   yeah  
i'm trying to you know  
i just need one  
i had two cars there for a while  
so i wouldn't have to worry about which car was going to run  
and yeah  
so but it became a hassle trying to keep up and maintain both of them  
and yeah  
so that  
yes  
one was bad enough  
but i think i got rid of the wrong one  
i soon i need a lot of repairs done on on this one  
so yeah  
that was uh that was something else  
well are our five minutes up  
i i didn't i didn't set the time or anything to uh  
yeah  
put  
well yeah  
i guess um you know  
unless you're um you know big do it [yourselfer] um to you know fix up your own cars and and things like that  
so but i guess they were talking about experiences  
you know i uh uh i did  
my parents live in ohio  
so i i do know something about the you know the really cold weather  
and uh i've always lived down here in the south  
and oh i took my car up there to their house  
and um i guess i had a crack in the block  
and when i got up there the car  
okay  
is it mike  
do you repair your own car  
well i tell you what that's count your [blessings] because   uh it really is good when someone can do some   things to a car themselves  
well that's why i don't do as much as i'd like  
because they are i mean they've got they've gotten complicated haven't they  
uh_huh  
is that right  
yeah  
i i agree  
about all i ever  
i never was too mechanically inclined  
but i used to always change my own oil and do the points and plugs and  
course they don't use uh points anymore  
but   uh they do still use plugs  
and uh now brakes i've always done a lot of you know changing brakes  
and i used to do i could always do the alternator you know and starter  
i don't anymore  
but i have on a lot a lot of times  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it probably slipped loose didn't it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
oh  

well it really wasn't quite as bad as you thought was it was it  
well it was a lot of money  
but  
you had to have the help didn't you  
yeah  
well do you still do much work on them then  
disposal is a problem  
that's true  
that's true  
right  
that that  
i've i've quit doing that myself  
and but one of the main reasons was the disposal of the oil you know  
and uh but it  
but no  
i guess  
that  
and the main reason that it's it's quick  
yes  
i try to whenever i can  
i've always been a a i guess a product of a handyman father  

yeah  
yeah  
there's  
although i'll tell you you know over the years the cars get more complicated  
right  
yeah  
yes  
one of my first cars was a fifty six buick   which after awhile i could you know take it apart in my sleep if i needed to  
yeah  
it it got to be pretty straightforward to understand  
and now since then you know the closer a car is to a fifty six buick the the more i know about it  
and then start getting into these [nissans] and the like  
and i just can't keep up  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
i understand  
my last car repair actually had to do with brakes  
and it's one i did not do myself  
i took the car my  
i have a seventy nine el [dorado] took it to be inspected  
and the parking brake failed  
so i got under there and messed with the the that uh that adjustment   to make to tighten it up  
and   that didn't do the trick  
and then i got there and tried to  
well actually that wasn't even eventually the problem  
i i did a lot of things that i i did everything that i could think to do  
and eventually i brought it up to a a place called just brakes  
and it turns out that there's a  
the parking brake in the rear  
there's a there's disc brakes  
and the parking brake is a [piston] deal  
and because the parking brake hadn't been used in so many years the [piston] froze up  
so they ended up having to pound it out  
and one of them they   were able to get running uh kind of [oiling] it and playing with it  
and the other one they just it was just frozen solid  
so i ended up having to buy one  
and all total it was just under two hundred dollars believe it or not to get all that done  
yeah  
actually i i think it was a lot of money  
but i i don't like i  
yeah  
but i  
it got to the point where i didn't know what was going on  
so  
that's right  
that's right  
i do  

actually that was just a at at the beginning of september  
and whenever i can i do try  
i  
actually i'd say this  
i i've gotten to the point where i don't change the oil anymore only because  
well that is one problem  
but also these uh these fast oil change places you just can't beat them  
for sixteen bucks they'll   not only will they change the oil in ten minutes and do a you know as good a job as i can do but they'll uh lube too  
yeah  
yep  
that's right  
seem to have the topic already on top of tip of your tongue there  
so why don't you go ahead and start  
yes sir  
okay  
right  
exactly  
i sure do  
i uh in fact the last thing i have i've done i i don't even remember what it is  
i've had to have oil changes done myself because i live in an apartment complex   where we are not allowed to   work on our vehicle  
we can't even wash our vehicle  
so  
uh but the last thing i can remember doing  
i had a sixty six mustang  
and that was all right because like you said that was pre technology days i guess  
and uh you know you could do a lot of it yourself still  
and uh i didn't tinker too much with the engine  
it was it was in pretty good shape  
but my main concern and what i enjoy doing was was the interior  
and uh it was it was pretty [shelled] uh  
but it was fun  
it was taking the whole thing you know the whole interior apart and you know ordering new carpeting and uh  
right  
and  
it it was  
i my wife enjoyed uh she you know helped out a little  
we [sanded] down the the insides of the door panels   and painted   those and  
no  
i sold it  
yeah  
it was fun though  
it was fun  
i i really enjoyed it  
and i was surprised at at uh the availability of parts yet  
you know you can you can still get factory original parts  
but uh you pay a premium  
but you just don't get them  
i i didn't  
i went ahead and got you know japanese made [duplicates] or wherever they were made  
canada  
you know [prefabs] and all that stuff  
but  
well actually there was  
and uh i had heard rumors that it was because they couldn't duplicate certain patterns uh exactly  
and so like the the glove box was just a little   little wider   little harder to fit in  
and   the carpeting uh stretched a little too far  
i had to cut some of the sides down  
but just just little things  
you know one of the screws on on the door uh window [regulators]  
you could get three of the three of the four to lineup  
the fourth one you couldn't get to lineup no matter what you did  
you know  
oh it was  
but   the end result is after you put your your panels on nobody sees that you got one screw missing in your your window [regulator] anyway  
and   it it runs it works just the same  
so  
disc brakes don't seem to give me too much problem  
but i i honestly don't have the tools for the drum  
i know you got uh certain spring [lever] that you got to have or some uh   some spring pulley or something that you got to pull that spring back over onto that notch  
uh my dad has got all that  
and and i i helped him when i was growing up  
but i don't have that stuff now  
because of the drum brakes i you know don't have any choice but to take them in  
sure  
uh_huh  
i'll tell you what  
the other the nicest thing about them is uh everything was standard  
you didn't have to worry about finding a metric anything  
boy i tell you  
yeah  
isn't the uh the subject auto repair   for tonight  
yeah  
that's great  
the reason i say that is pretty timely because just tonight i went out and changed the oil in my car  
and   that's something i like to do and uh something i something i can do with now the sophisticated auto   cars we have today with all the computers and everything  
it's uh and there's not a whole lot you can do without the equipment and electronic analysis that needs to be done on a car  
but i do like to get out and tinker with a car  
and it's something i can do still  
do you enjoy working with your car  
oh dear  
oh that's too bad  
oh  
oh yes  
oh  
and did you install all that yourself  
well that was   i bet that was a lot of fun  
uh_huh  
wow  
do you still have the car  
well that's too bad  
a sixty seven uh mustang is about the uh top top year for the mustang car  
yes  
huh  
yeah  
well you know that's that's fine  
i i don't think that there would be uh you know a a quality difference  
i don't know  
you wouldn't you didn't notice the difference did you  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
oh   i bet that was frustrating wasn't it  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's that's true  
well you know that that is something i really enjoy doing um working on our car too  
the uh i just changed my oil oil tonight  
but uh i enjoy also working on things like the brakes  
and uh in fact just two weeks ago i helped my neighbor out on his brakes on his car  
and uh either if it's a drum or or disc brakes i enjoy working on those kind of things  
yeah  
[spoons] and  
yes  
you do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
and you know it it doesn't doesn't hurt every once in a while to have them done professionally too  
because um i was helping my neighbor out  
and one of his drums needed to be [resurfaced]  
and i don't have of course the equipment to do that  
so he took it into a shop and had it uh [resurfaced] and and fixed that way  
but yeah  
it is true uh you know  
i did have a sixty four ford truck that i wish i still had and loved to get inside that and tinker around with it and work with it   because you didn't have all the extra extra stuff   that's in there now  
oh yeah  
and you know  
say you did uh starters and bendix springs such as that on an old one  
yeah  
she had to label everything  
what was she driving  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
[quad] not really easy to get rebuilt just right  
uh and like what were you replacing the starters and bendix on  
yeah  
did you replace just the uh bendix on the chrysler station wagon or the whole starter  
yeah  
the starters are kind of [fragile]  
especially if you need a tune up  
yeah  
well if they start real easy you know you just hit the key  
and it starts up  
and when it's properly tuned up that starter will last for a long time  
see they built that starter so it would fit every v eight and all the slant sixes that they've built in like thirty five years  
they all take the exact same starter  
they'll [interchange] completely  
i mean completely  
one starter will fit all of them  
so they've got a whole lot of [torque]  
but to do that they did it  
use an [underdrive] system  
but they geared it down so the motor [spins] really fast   so it's got to [spin] for very long  
it's kind of tough on the bushings  
usually what goes is the bushings  
you take a little time replace the bushings you still got a perfectly good starter  
but uh most places don't put don't rebuild them with with with good enough bushings  
so it's you know  
after you get rebuilt one you have a tendency to go through them pretty quickly especially if you need a tune up  
anyway what are you driving now  
that's good  
it was a late model  
is that chrysler van  
yeah  
one of the little mini vans  
do you like the way it rides and stuff  
rides rough  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right now without getting some of the sportier models uh the four cylinders aren't real [peppy]  
but uh they're starting to change that out in the last couple of years too  
uh yeah  
i've driven one uh  
i drove a volkswagen [beetle] for a while about a month  
uh in a month i think i put uh three oil [coolers] on it  
uh every time i turned around i was having trouble with it  
everything else i ever owned was american built uh mostly older cars  
uh i've been a mechanic  
well i worked starting working my father's service station when i was about uh twelve  
so i've been around cars a lot but uh driven a lot of old [pontiacs]  
my first three cars were uh seventy model [pontiacs] a g t o and a bonneville and a station wagon  
i had a couple of chryslers  
had a super b for a while with a four forty in it  
it was a lot of fun  
but uh  
i don't know  
gas mileage wasn't too bad  
it got about seventeen  
well till you got crazy with it  
you know you get the four barrel all worked up  
and suddenly it it it drops off fast  
but   long as you didn't [spin] the tires too much or or spend too much time with the [secondaries] kicked in it it didn't do too bad on gas  
didn't have to work too hard to move the car around  
oh yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
yeah  
the  
my last g m car was a seventy chevy station wagon  
and it still had the points and condenser in it  
when i rebuilt the engine on that about a hundred and thirty thousand on the car  
i uh pulled that old points distributor out and got an h e i distributor electronic distributor put into it  
yeah  
and uh helped my wife replace some [carburetors]  
some that she had to uh label everything  
yeah  
because  
it was a cadillac  
and they uh well they quit making those the quieter jet carburetor  
and they quit making it  
they rebuilt it  
and it never did never did run right again  
yeah  
uh a maverick and also uh a chrysler station wagon before that  
uh the  
i'm replacing the two or three starters on the chrysler  
they  
yeah  
and the  
uh_huh  
they kept saying that the that's what chryslers did is they wore out starters  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh my chrysler van  
and it's it's pretty maintenance free you know  
and uh at the beginning of the year last year and drove a chevrolet cavalier station wagon  
and it didn't give me any trouble at all  
yeah  
it's a eighty seven  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is a  
uh rides or runs  
it  
yeah  
well yeah  
it rides rides rough  
it runs good  
you know i kind of  
it took me a while to get used to a four cylinder engine  
you have to kind of wait for it especially when you get on the highway  
yeah  
you driven american cars all  

uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
not much gas mileage though  
oh wow  
yeah  
now do you think since they started with electronic [ignition] that it [improves] the way the car runs  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
now then you heard the question  
what   what do you like to do for yourself in car automobile repairs  
okay  
um  
well  
is that the reason you're not doing it  
or are you so busy you don't have time to do it  
uh  
okay  
well being a female and being alone you i don't do anything but put gasoline   in my car and let someone else check the oil even  
but uh have you had any major repairs recently  
oh  
okay  
well you should be feel very fortunate  
i had to have a transmission replaced in an eighty six automobile  
and i'll declare that's an expensive  
yes  
uh_huh  
maybe i should have just traded the car in  
oh it just  
well i have a very comfortable car   and i have a health problem that i need a large comfortable car  
so um anyway i have a new transmission  
and i'm sure that any of them would have cost or charged me almost the same amount  
but  
it hurts   it hurts real bad  
no  
i took it to an independent   out in garland  
i had um  
these people were recommended by a neighbor  
and you know that's the only thing  
i am not a native of dallas  
so that means i have to depend on on [trustworthy] friends  
and that's  
anyway it's fixed  
it's running  
and i pray that i get my thirteen hundred dollars out of it  
uh_huh  
oh i know it  
it certainly is frightening  
what work are you in  
oh  
okay  
okay  
no  
no  
i have just retired from um the southwest medical center  
yeah where there are a lot of people down there that could help me with my car  
but they're all too busy  
so  
i have to do it the other way  
and that's find someone and pay them to do it  
so i certainly hope you have a nice new year  
oh it could be  
but i don't much think so  
i'm well we're starting out a new one  
so let's make it a good one  
okay  
thank you  
bye  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
well i'll tell you i used to do a lot more repairs when cars were easy to work on than i do now  
i do uh i do the easy stuff now  
i change oil  
uh and then what some people would consider a little more difficult i i'll change spark plugs  
and   i'll change you know points and you you know do air filters that kind of stuff  
but uh i can't do as much as i used to  
um i used to do a whole lot more but not any more  
they're just too weird to work on now  
well that's part of it  
yeah  
part of it is like you said i don't have time  
uh_huh  
well um on this car i've got now no  
but i had a van before  
and it was only two years old  
and it had transmission go out on it  
but fortunately that was covered under the warranty  
um  
oh yeah  
yeah  
sometimes it makes you wonder  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
did you take it to a dealership  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
right  
oh gosh  
it's going to run for a for a while yet  
uh i i work for t i  
i i work in the [networking] area  
do you work for t i  
no  
okay  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i'm i'm planning on it  
oh it can't be any worse than last year  
that's for sure  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
i'm going to try and plan on it  
all right well i enjoyed the conversation  
all right thank you  
bye bye  
okay ron  
welcome to the net  
and uh what did you do about your last auto repair  
oh and might you say what kind of cars you have and so forth  
um  
my goodness gracious that's  
well that's still not enough for a total is it  
it's a very expensive automobile  
oh and do you buy one every two years  
uh_huh  
did this car have one of these expanding balloons  
or just are there normal safety belts in it that you had  
did that help you  
they didn't go off  
but you were hit in the side weren't you  
that may be the problem  
you you may you may need to be hit from something the leaning towards the forward   to [activate] it  
my goodness  
uh_huh  
my goodness  
i would think so  
this doesn't sound like you've got very good luck with that one  
well i'm relatively fortunate about that  
uh here we somehow don't have many people run into us although at the beginning of each school season uh students move into town who are from big cities  
and they sort of drive kind of wild for about two three weeks then they finally settle down and   realize that they don't have to drive that way here  
and now that takes the strain out off of everyone that uh is driving a vehicle  
and i find that the most of the repairs i have to do here is body damage due to the salt that we have to put on the road to uh take care of us in the winter time  
uh i have a sixty nine cougar and a seventy seven pontiac so forth  
and i have to  
and i drive a honda most of the time  
and i have to make sure that uh salt and so forth are kept off of it  
and once in a while we have to replace some of the plates in the bottom of it   because it's rusted away  
uh_huh  
well i just i i had this cougar totally uh the body of it totally rebuilt uh to get some of the [rusts] that were in the [fenders]   uh done and then it all repainted  
and then winter got here  
and so i put the cover over it then to keep the ice and snow off  
so i haven't had a chance to drive it very much  
but anyhow uh now are you going to buy this next car  
or you going rent it lease it again  
are you  
uh_huh  
well that's an awfully big one that uh that one that you had that lincoln uh  
isn't it too large for normal town driving finding parking places   and getting in and out the doors  
uh_huh  
uh   yeah  
well that certainly would be a wonderful comfortable machine to take on long trips  
i'm i'm very much aware of that  
yes  
i'm sure it is because that's the way that i enjoy this pontiac that i have  
it only has thirty eight thousand miles on it  
but it's   very quiet and very smooth riding machine  
uh_huh  
do you do you feel that uh  
okay  
well larry my last one unfortunately was a an expensive one because i had a brand new lincoln town car  
and   and a couple of ladies ran a stop light  
the lights weren't working properly  
it wasn't their fault  
but we they didn't run it  
we both had green  
and she hit me and did about eleven thousand dollars worth of damage to my car  
so  
that was a huge repair bill  
i know  
i hated that  
so it wasn't enough to total it  
but that's my that's been my most uh expensive repair probably in the last year with the except of just service work because i buy a new car every two years  
and  
well i travel a lot  
so   you know uh this last one i leased  
so i don't know  
and i leased it on a twenty four month program  
first time i've ever done that  
but i'll probably go back to buying them because i don't care to lease them  
no  
it has the expanding balloons  
uh it  
they didn't go off  
no  
i guess we weren't going  
that sort of upset me  
we weren't going fast enough  
when i called the dealership about it and called ford motor about it  
but no sir  
didn't go off uh  
we were  
it was a bad rainy dark [dreary] day  
and and the street lights  
yes  
yes  
took off my whole front [fender] and hood and everything  
i tell you just   took it all off  
it was uh uh  
my doors were okay front and back  
but it did uh right eleven thousand dollars in damage  
it was a  
then i get it back and two weeks after that i'm driving it in front of the local high school and some young man just wasn't paying any attention and runs in the back of me  
that's another twelve hundred dollars worth of damage  
so i'm going to get  
when my twenty four months is up on this car i'm getting rid of this car  
my golly  
how about you larry  
i understand  
i understand  
sure  
i understand that because i'm from west virginia  
and we had the same thing up there continuously [salting] the roads for snow  
sure     no  
i'm going to i'm going to buy it larry  
i don't like the rental  
i think i'm getting ready to retire myself  
and   i'm going to i'm going to be you know driving a car for longer  
so i usually drive a car for three years  
and   and anyway and so but last couple of cars i've only driven for two years  
and so i'd leased this one for two years  
so i'll probably go back and buy one  
and uh this next car will probably be my retirement car  
well no sir  
not really  
not really  
uh no problem at all  
my wife and daughter  
we have uh two toyotas in the family one nissan  
and then we have the lincoln  
and the    
not really  
no problem there at all as as far as finding parking places  
it's   it's convenient in that in that regard  
yes  
it is  
and i   and i travel  
i'm like a traveling salesman  
don't travel a lot any more  
but uh when i do take it it is very comfortable to drive  
yes  
it's  
is that right  
well my wife's toyota is soon to be four years old  
it only has doesn't even have thirty thirty thousand miles on it  
so gosh been much in such good shape that'll probably be an eight or ten year car  
the last auto repair i had was  
i have a nineteen eighty four nissan truck  
i had a tune up done  
and i had i had the brakes done on it  
and then the reason i did that was because i don't have a scope  
and it has eight spark plugs  
and it's hard to to get get at them  
and plus the time on them  
i just don't have time any more  
uh as far as maintenance tasks that i do myself i i usually change the oil and wash the air filter  
and i i had an occasion to change to have to change the battery once  
but the brakes i was really surprised that the brakes  
i wanted  
i do have the background  
i know what needs to be done  
and i know that the oil needs should be changed very regularly and all of the bearings  
and the lube [lubrication] system needs to be [lubricated] and  
so i i stay on top of that  
but i i wanted my front wheels  
i wanted the bearings packed  
and they wanted something like fifteen dollars uh a front or something like that  
or maybe it was thirty dollars to do it  
just to pack the bearings  
but what i found is that they had a brake job  
and they  
i had them  
the other thing i let them do some times is that i let them go through and let them tell me what let them do the diagnostics  
that's free  
okay  
and then i can decide whether i want them to do it or whether i can do it see  
and they told me that my my brake pads were gosh you know seventy percent still good you know  
but still it was cheaper in the long run  
and uh  
so i just got the the brakes done  
and i thought that was a good deal  
and plus  
and they [repacked] the the wheel bearings  
yeah  
but uh i've i've had considerable experience  
i'm you might say i'm uh uh good back yard mechanic  
and i you know i took auto shop in high school  
it's been a while back  
but i i still have a pretty good feel for it  
but one thing i didn't know is that when i was messing around with cars and stuff and most of the cars  
i i had bigger cars  
and the brakes go out fairly rapidly on those  
and what i was surprised at is that on my little nissan i bought the truck with about sixty thousand i have almost one hundred and ten  
so i drove on those brake pads for uh you know forty five thousand miles  
and there was hardly any wear to them  
so those small little trucks and cars like that they just the longevity of the brake pads is really good  
exactly  
so i you know i just did it anyway  
i like to i like to stay up on it  
you know like i just kind of stay up on it  
and then if you go and like just about any point any you know point in time and pull my dip stick and pull it out and look at the oil the oil is you might say uh a white golden brown  
you know it's not dirty  
i i i keep it that way because that's that is the key to the longevity  
so so how  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
you're talking about the vibration [dampener]  
that's the vibration [dampener]  
yeah  
okay  
um  
uh-oh  
um  
uh-oh  
huh  
uh_huh  
just to pack the bearings  
right  
right  
and they [repacked] the wheel bearings  
you know they've gotten to the point that where they don't weigh very much  
and the the   surface materials on the pads is so good  
right  
well   it sounds like you've had some good experiences with that  
uh and my experiences have been kind of contrary to that  
uh i i get a little more involved in the maintenance of my car  
and uh   and in fact i have an eighty seven mustang with a three o two in it   that i've uh [beefed] up a little bit  
and one of the things that i did was to change the pulley system on it to use under drive pulleys so that the engine doesn't have to turn the [accessories] and can use more of the power to the rear wheels  
uh the only catch was the first set of under drive pulleys that i put on it were uh not even cast aluminum  
they were just pressed aluminum  
well there's three there's three pulleys that you change  
you change the crank pulley   the alternator pulley and uh the water pump pulley  
so when i changed those over i put on these these pressed aluminum things  
and uh probably about four months ago the water pump decided to go out  
so in the process of [seizing] the belt spun on the pulley and wore   through the water pump pulley almost all the way   but not far enough to notice  
so i was on my way to work one day  
and uh the water pump pulley split [laterally] in half  
so there was half a water pump pulley still attached to the water pump  
and the other half was kind of [dangling] off the end of the crank  
and uh i  
i uh try to stay away from cars as much as possible in terms of   repair  
actually uh that is really a sore spot with me  
i i think perhaps the automotive industry is improving  
but uh like ten years ago uh reliability of automobiles at least u s automobiles was pretty dismal  
and not only that but the uh repair capability of uh service departments and dealerships was equally dismal  
and uh it seemed that the only way i could [reliably] take care of my car was to repair it myself which is not my cup of tea  
but uh i  
pardon  
well at that time actually i had a volkswagen rabbit  
and uh it was it was a real lemon  
uh subsequently i got a uh buick century  
and it wasn't as bad  
but uh last year i bought a honda accord  
and i take it in once every seventy five hundred miles for its [periodic] maintenance  
and that is it  
and it's wonderful  
huh  
huh  
huh  
so what do you have  
all the more reason to uh have a a honda  
so you bought a pontiac  
now  
how old is the car  
huh  
huh  
huh  
so apparently it was the same one that was on there  
apparently just uh uh probably filled the the brake fluid up  
and that was it  
so what's the solution to that i guess find a reputable service  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well that's wonderful  
you're lucky  
oh really  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so do you have a car  
do you have a car  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we used to have a honda accord  
and they're good  
they're really good cars  
every time i get taken to an auto repair place you know every time i go i get taken  
bad   you know  
woman goes in  
and they go all right we got a sucker  
let's see how much money we can get out of her you know  
that's what happens every time  
uh so  
i have a pontiac six thousand  
yeah  
but our honda just got old and just wore out  
it was let's see eleven years old  
and it just just out of it  
so   no  
huh_uh  
my uh ex husband's  
this is just happened a couple of weeks ago  
he's my ex husband  
but just a few months ago when he was my husband uh his father gave us this car  
and everything is wrong with it  
i mean the power steering fluid leaks the oil leaks the brake fluid leaks you know  
uh eighty seven  
and he just doesn't take care of things  
and but i was awarded the car  
so there is a man in my church that is a mechanic  
and i can trust him  
so he is trying to get you know things fixed on it  
but it's just you know leak leak leak everywhere  
but uh you know i hate to go into a a repair place because they'll tell me something is wrong with it and it's not you know and charge me twice as much  
the last time i took it into a repair shop  
the man told me i needed a master cylinder  
so i said okay  
and he charged me a hundred and thirty something dollars  
and then uh about a month later a man was looking at my car  
and he asked me  
you know not a man not a repair man but just a friend  
and i was telling him that i just a new master cylinder put on  
and he looked at  
and he said that's not a new master cylinder  
and i didn't even know what one was  
and uh he showed it to me  
and it was old rusty just awful  
it was no more new than nothing  
uh more than likely  
that was it probably  
it was  
i was so irritated  
and that's happened to me more than once or twice just just about every time i've went in somewhere  
and and you can hardly find one you know  
the guy that's doing most of my my car now uh goes to my church  
and that's the only reason you know i go to him   because i know him  
and i know he will tell me the truth  
because he doesn't even charge me for for doing it  
so he's not going to you know take me  
i just pay for the parts  
and he does it so  
yeah  
yeah  
i am  
so i don't know  
i don't know what the solution to that is because the place where you buy your car they're usually the worst one of all  
we took our honda to the honda dealership  
and they ended up telling us we needed a brand new engine for our car  
yeah  
and so [idiots] as we were neither one of us knew much about cars  
we you know they told us we just had to have one  
and we bought one  
we didn't no more need no new engine  
give me break you know  
so it was it was not good  
and uh  
i think the last thing we had done on the car had to do with uh the transmission and i'm not sure exactly what it was that they did uh speaking from other ignorance what about your car
uh_huh
oh you can't go to a different one
oh
oh uh_huh
oh my
buy two more
well that i have forgotten um i i have a little station wagon that i drive to work and my husband has a a van that he uses in his business
and he had a similar experience to yours just i think it was last week or or it certainly was in the last come of weeks
uh went to get his uh sticker renewed and had a couple little things like the clip that holds the uh-oh the muffler pipes up
had broken or [sheared] or whatever
and they measured the tread and i don't know
they did that to the tires
and he had to get two new ones too
so i'd never heard of it before
so my mouth was open when you mentioned that that circumstance
well yeah
you you want it
you want them to check what's what's [needful] for your safety and so forth
but the other sounds like a fluke when they didn't do it
you should have known when you went in the first time uh if there was if you needed four tires okay fine but tell me all at the same time
you can't help feeling that way
that's yeah that's a common feeling
i i [empathize] because um i'm real glad my husband knows something about cars
but when i go in
i feel really at a loss
and and if we take my car in to be fixed he'll he'll tell them what he wants
and then he'll stay well well call my wife if there's anything else that needs to be done
and then they call me at work because he he doesn't work near uh uh doesn't
have an office
yeah
a phone and and so they'll call me and say well mrs parker we've got some good news
and we've got some bad news
the problem we thought about this morning is not a problem
but the real problem is
uh and so the only way that i the only thing i know to do is if if it sounds [plausible] i'll say
go ahead and do it
but save me the parts
or something
so i can have him look at it
that's the only thing that saved us is his background there
that's that's
sure
uh_huh
all that scheduled maintenance right
that the
that's the truth
i always wanted to know a little bit more
but i think it was more to [showoff] when i was growing up and i before i was married i was teaching school and teaching down in corpus christi and i wanted to be able to at least change a flat tire between arlington where my family lived and down there
and so i i one day i had told my brother
i said now i know everybody's suppose to change tire no help
but i said i can't do that will you help me will you show me
and so i had it out there and he was helping and mother came to the door and said larry you've got a phone call
so he went in to talk to one of his many friends
and i i'm there
i'm there with this tire off
so i thought i have better things to do
i can do this myself
and so oh i guess i was getting ready to start that was it it wasn't even off
so i started [jacking] it up and and so forth
and somehow or the other the the jack since it's one of those that has the [ratchet] kind of thing
and i reached out to grab it
and it caught the the [webbing] between my thumb
and my my [forefinger] it caught the
and i couldn't do anything i fortunately it was loss it was no longer under the car
and i i could not get my my i could just see me for the rest of my life with this jack attached to my hand
and i couldn't see anybody on the street nor kids all over
so i went to the to the door
and it was summertime the air conditioner was on the door was closed
and i couldn't knock because i had to hold the jack with the other hand
i finally with my elbow rang the [doorbell] and mother came to the door
and i wouldn't let her touch me
i wanted my brother to help me with this that was he took the phone down pretty quickly
and it didn't take him long to extricate my hand
but oh i was scared to death
i i could see them cutting out my whole palm just to get this little flap of skin out
so that's that's how mechanical i am
and that was oh that was twenty five years ago
so i i've not tried it since
oh plus plus before this
i had put all the [lugs] back in place
but i had the wrong side out
i didn't know there was a right and wrong side
the thread worked
and so i was so proud after she got me [extricated] he looked and went out there to check it over and he just laughed he said [sissy]
i'm sorry
but we're going to redo this
so uh listen
i'll call triple a uh auto club any time
it will save your fingers trust me
well i enjoyed it
jay thank you
okay
um i'm very [unhandy] in these things
and uh i don't like to do anything myself
i like to have a service station that i can feel confident about
which is [problematical] uh_huh
is is the problem that it's hard to get the appropriate battery and other types of things for a sixty six car
excuse me
i'm sorry
so are you struggling to get around as a result
i try not to uh
i suppose i ought to learn to change the oil and things
i could save a lot of money doing that
i mean it must be great to to to really understand what's what's going on
you can both do things yourself and talk confidently with people when you have to take it somewhere to get
parts or whatever
was it easy to get a more appropriate clutch you have a slight
oh
uh
well the car i drive is an eighty four
and it's reached the point where various things are are going wrong with it
and it's had to be in recently it needed a new battery it wouldn't start
um
my wife and i did manage to to uh [recharge] the battery from the other car
um and the exhaust system has needed work
and um uh so the
so the latest work done it just yesterday was to have the front wheels [aligned] uh so we've been spending
yes
in fact in fact on the battery uh uh it's the old one that had a four year warranty
and the day it gave up was four years and six days
oh the last thing i had done
or did let's see uh was getting a an old seventy eight jeep [cherokee] ready to trade in
and uh so i was basically just going around and doing what i could do fixing door locks and checking the transfer case fluid and things like that
i'm kind of a motor head myself
so this topic is actually pretty good for me
um i've got a seventy chevelle that i'm restoring too
so it's uh there's constant work going on
to that car
yeah
yeah
sure
uh_huh
oh wow
uh_huh
that's some
that's some serious work
not only uh you have to have a
yeah
but you have to have a knowledge of quite a few of the the systems there to to do that
yeah
have you tried any like the chilton's uh manuals oh i i recommend them
i've uh i uh i have a chilton's manual in my chevelle and every anytime i [undertake] anything that i start with that that book
yeah
yeah
yeah
they're they're pretty good
uh the only problem i've noticed with them
is that when i started working on cars
i um uh didn't really have much knowledge of them at all
and and you know it's hard
the language of automotive mechanics is a language all it's own
and just the names of some of the parts
you know they tell you to put the wrench on something
and you know
yeah
you know
and it took
awhile before you figure out what everything is
and uh and what you are supposed to be doing with it
but i think it's a lot better than than starting from starting cold
and that's for sure
no
yeah
uh_huh
oh i know
brake job
right
well i i don't know i've got i've gotten the chevelle i've did done the brakes all the way around it myself
and uh
well this one has got drum brakes though
drum drum brakes are a little bit tougher than disc brakes
but uh but still it's not anything that that you know it's just a matter of putting the parts in the right place
and there isn't really anything you can do wrong to it
um and those ones did have to have the lines [bleed] though
but but bleeding the lines is just a matter of uh you know just having somebody on the uh pumping the the brake [pedal] for you
and when it is
yeah
yeah
exactly
sure
yeah
yeah
yeah
there's no not not too much trick for that
or uh buy
i just this new vehicle i buy just bought a ninety one g m c [sonomo] which is a little pickup truck with a
and i'm wondering when the time comes for the maintenance on this thing how much i'm going to be able to do myself
and how much is going to require all their diagnostics
and all that
it looks pretty simple
i used to have an eighty five chrysler laser and this one certainly looks a lot more simple than than that motor but uh i haven't i haven't gotten into fuel [injectors] and things like that
and everything is fuel injected
so i don't know what the uh how that will will be the only thing i've ever done on a fuel injector is replace the hose on it
it was leaking so i don't know
i like the old cars you open up the hood on my chevelle and there's nothing under there
but a big motor and uh you know no
well i just uh i have a thunderbird that i spent last month twelve hundred bucks just on getting repairs to
but that's a that's a hundred thousand mile tune up
so i guess if it gives me another fifty thousand in between i'll be happy with it
but uh well i tell you it's expensive if you try and keep them running you know keep them so they're top shape
uh i don't
well
what what do you what do you do
uh_huh
i mean do you travel a lot in your job or not
oh okay
and that's good
and hard on a car
yeah
it uh i uh i cover most of texas and oklahoma with some of the lines that i sell
and and i'll put on thirty five forty thousand miles a year
but uh it and you got to keep the car in good shape when you do that
uh i i'm on my third set of tires on this thing
and uh you know brake job
and you know shocks you you do the whole thing
if you want to keep it going and about the only really [aggravation] was when they had a uh it turned out they had to change processor out on the car
which doesn't seem that difficult a thing to do
but it took them a week before they realized that they had two other bad processors
and uh without a car for a week in my business
it's rather difficult
i i guess the only thing that really bothers me
and uh the auto at least down here
and it sounds like you got the same problem where uh they only have probably one really qualified mechanic in the whole garage and uh the rest are maybe a level above or perhaps at the grease monkey level
and yet they'll they'll charge you for brain surgery on these cars as though they all know everything
but
four or five days
that's funny how long did it take him to catch on to that one
that drove him nuts
that's a good one
oh that's nasty just driving this guy crazy probably couldn't sleep at night worrying about his expensive car getting blown up and that is
funny that is funny
i got a customer that uh has a [jaguar] and he and his wife had one
he says well if you have a [jaguar] you got to have two one for the shop and one to drive
oh well i don't know uh what age you are
but when i was a kid the cars you could you could fix them you
that's right
get sick with the flu
uh_huh
wow are these disc brakes
right
well i have nissan uh maxima and i had the rear brakes on those redone
but i guess auto repairs are cheaper around here i think it was around eighty five dollars
is expensive
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
you're very fortunate
well i ran into a problem with my car
uh course we have a little colder weather up here
and i had set the emergency brake after we'd had a freezing rain apparently
and there's some kind of a boot that had come off the car
so the emergency brake froze on
and my uh brakes were on all the time i drove to work one morning
it got warm
it was pretty smelly by the time we got there which is not too far a drive
but that that was the reason i had to replace mine
right
right
you would hope so
but that you can't turn
that's right
i've seen your spaghetti bridges though when i wouldn't want to go over them you do that yourself
oh you're that's right
i've thought about taking a course just so i could change my own oil
but
and that would help a little bit
but i haven't done it
oh no
oh
that's crazy
that is mean
or take it to the pit and let them
let somebody else do it
they have
but i really hate paying twenty two ninety five for an oil change
when i know what the oil costs
right
right
well
right
some of the stations around here will take it
i think
maybe they have to accept it
recycle it
that's right
uh we were down in dallas right after christmas and on the way back
we stopped in louisiana to visit my brother and we were driving my husband's toyota pick up truck
well we made a quick little stop when we got to baton [rouge] and he came back out
and the car the truck wouldn't stop
i mean it wouldn't start so gave it a somebody came along and helped give it a little push and the next morning they took it to the garage and it was just a small private garage and he said it was the starter motor probably
and he was going to take it off and either repair it or replace it or whatever
and we got a call in the middle of the morning and he said i've got good news and bad news uh the starter motor is fine it it just had a couple of bolts that held it in place
and one had been broken off
and allowed it to shift enough that it wouldn't
match just right
and the only bad news was my husband would have to go to a garage and pick them up pick the bolts up for him
so he went to a used car garage
i guess or place
and got the bolts and had it running for about fifteen dollars
i couldn't believe it because the man could have really stuck us
no
it was great
okay
greg
okay
thank you
i uh try to do what i can
and uh we have two vehicles uh and uh on the honda which is the older vehicle
i try to do as much as i can on that on our newer one uh uh mini vans it's all electronic and computers and everything in it
yeah
uh well some things are some things aren't you know
not everything's covered by [warrantee] i don't try to mess with that at all
i mean i i can change the oil and uh no no i do have a place that's rusting i need to get something on it
put some paint on it or something to stop the rust like scrape it and paint it
right
right
right
i know if you don't get the rust off
that's there already that it's just going to continue on
but yeah
i'm just sitting here looking at my honda manual when i got your call
i got the
yeah
yeah
right
the uh
yeah
yeah
i do my own brake brake work on the honda
i just finished finished working on the brakes
right
right
not the things i know how to do
i i'm not an expert i don't
claim to be
uh_huh
right
right
seems anymore
you need special tools to do a lot of jobs you know and and i'm afraid i'll get something take it taken apart
and not remember how to get it back together and then i'd be in big trouble
i do know a couple good shade tree mechanics and i call them once in a while for advice
and once in a while
they'll come over and say oh this is how you do it you know
and i try to learn
but i think a lot of people learn how to do maintenance from whether their father did it you know my dad didn't do much at all
and he doesn't know much about cars and as a result i really didn't have that much interest to learn how to maintain fix and maintain cars
so i didn't learn much growing up and i just after i we bought the cars you know and things got so expensive to take them someplace all the time that i decided that i better start learning you know
right
that's right
well yeah
that's that's when i call some friends or something or sometimes i just take it to a place you know
and they'll tell me what's wrong
and i'll say
and i'll say oh it'll be this much money
and i'll say oh well i'm going to think about that
that sounds like too much
right now
and so you know i got to think about that
so they'll put it back together i'll take it home and then i'll fix it myself
sometimes they charge you you know if it's a [diagnosis] problem
some places do some don't
right
just depends you know how long how long it takes them to figure it out if they can just tell right away by just listening to it
and then they're usually going to charge you you know
right
they're pretty tricky
uh_huh
right
that's how i figure on those things
it's just not worth the worth it
right
right
uh_huh
right now that we have two cars
i'm not as scared to play with play around because we always have the other car seems like i before i would get the car all apart and realize i needed a part you know
and so i'm calling all the neighbors and stuff trying to get them to give me a ride down to get my part you know because i don't have another car
so now that we have two cars i i'm not i'm less leery about just going for it
um no
no
i haven't had any problem
yeah
i know i had an estimate for that little rust spot
and they wanted like three hundred bucks
i said i can live with it you know if the car's ten years old
on your plastic bumper right
whoa that's on the other car or your car
is that right
uh_huh
yeah
i've heard of them the chain
is that right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well you're a student right
so that's important
yeah
yeah
it seems anymore
the cars are they want so much to work on a car they we've had our car in the dealer or our van
and they want
they charge like forty five dollars an hour labor i think golly that's
yeah
i i
right
well the mechanic doesn't see that you know it's the owner or the dealer who sees who sees the big bucks mechanic probably gets about twenty dollars an hour
so yeah
the thing about automobiles they're so unpredictable too you know they're hard to hard to plan ahead for for things
uh_huh
right
no
i haven't seen that one
uh_huh
that's true
that's true
i mean it's hard to you know it's hard to say oh i should set aside this much money for repairs on cars because you never know it could cost you nothing
or it could cost you three times as much
it's hard to plan for those things
and when you need to have it fixed you know a lot of times you can't just take it all over town
if it uh you know
sometime
you can
but on some things
it's
you're just stuck
and you got to have it towed somewhere or something you just got to got to make a quick decision
i don't know
i don't trust a lot of people who work on your cars too
i know this one guy that works for dealerships as a you know they at dealerships they replace things they don't fix things
right
so they'd just rather replace something and charge you for the new part rather than just you know fixing the part
and the part could be probably fixed you know for a third of the price of of a new one
but they that's dealers don't do that
oh sure
sure
they do
and then they take your old part and sell it to some [reconditioning] house and make money off of that too
you know so anyways
well we got to got to have cars in this society not like uh europe and japan and some other countries where they have good enough public transportation where you can just get anywhere you need need need to go anytime you need to get there
well i hope so
right
uh_huh
right
right
but it it's going to be a while
i think
but
right
okay
what i was going to tell you about is that my fiance and i have just finished as a matter of fact today restoring a seventy three mercedes
i i we've done a little bit of it ourselves
but mostly we were lucky enough to find a a guy that works for a mercedes dealership
and he [restores] cars
on his on his uh you know off time
well it was uh a gentleman that works with my fiance and he had bought it for his daughter and she wasn't taking care of it
and boy was that obvious when they pulled up in it
it had been really uh
it was in a mess
it was just in a terrible mess uh
well the last thing we did to it was today they had uh replaced the gear shift
um it's uh it wasn't
we had to order the part from the dealership and the guys put it in today when you shifted it down
you didn't know if you were in park drive reverse whatever
so that was the very last thing that we had to uh had to have done
uh basically the whole car's been redone they put in new uh they used new sheet metal and stuff to to repair the body
i mean there were you know these rusted dents a new paint job
yeah
it was completely [overhauled] and uh for what it's a diesel uh_huh
it sure is
yeah
you're right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
and it's it's just been [lovingly] restored that's one good thing about about having somebody to do it your you're you're there because they worked on it here at our home
i have no idea
i i doubt that anybody will ever really know
well i i i can't really remember what it shows on there
but i remember when we discussed it
we said that we were pretty sure that that was like
times maybe or an additional one hundred added on to that a hundred thousand
yeah
because it's uh it had definitely been through the mill
but uh
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my gosh
you've had it
oh my word
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my word
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
replaced yeah
yeah
oh definitely
oh gosh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
gosh
that's unbelievable
um
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's that is amazing
is it the same engine
that's been in it all the time
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's amazing
yeah
yeah
so the car was how old when you when you bought it
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh i see
uh_huh
yeah
exactly
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh is it does say that on the can
i didn't realize that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh i see
yeah
that's amazing
yeah
and this is a maverick you said
maverick well i had uh i had owned a cougar up until oh just several months ago that i had had since uh um i think it was in eighty two or something
and i had that car only uh about two years
and the engine blew in it
and so i had to put in a new engine that was
that's an experience when you have a two year old car
you know
and it wasn't in warranty
i mean it must have like the day after the warranty was expired
it must have [exploded]
i have no
uh v is it v eight
i don't i don't know a lot of
what's the biggest one is a v eight bigger
yeah
that's what it had in it
and yeah
so it it uh that's my latest experience with anything major
yeah
yeah
and i'm sure i shouldn't i shouldn't feel that way
that's why i was surprised to hear you talk about this car
it sounds very [resilient] whatever they have in that whatever a kind of engine
it is in that car
yeah
yeah
yeah
maybe it has something to do
but i i know i took good care of it
i changed the oil quite often
i didn't even do that myself
i i could never do any of this myself
you know i'm just not uh i'm not uh
yeah
and it still blew up
well now that
yeah
not that i know of
oh really
you would never have a problem
well you know that's possible
i never had thought about it
but that's my
i'm i have a
what what does that do
okay
just like just like sugar would it
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
ugh
well that maybe that's what happened to it because it had it had been fine
but the odd thing about it was is after i had that engine replaced that car ran hot every summer
i mean even though yes
texas is notorious i mean we
it's true
we have a hundred and eight degree days
but you know it
uh i had i had trouble with that car after that i don't know if it was just a lemon even though it was a brand new engine
you know
so uh
yeah
course it was a brand new engine supposedly now that's what the dealership told me you know
yeah
yeah
that's what i i know my i had uh had my dad finally took it down there because i would take it back and forth
and the dealership would not it was i still had the problem
it just continued and continued
and they would charge me you know two hundred dollars every time they looked at it
and um he kept saying the same thing he said it seems like it was your [thermostat] but at any rate it was really never [rectified]
and i told the people that when i sold it to them
i said you know you you might need to watch out
but they didn't seem to mind
they wanted the car
so you know as far as my ability to do anything on it
i can check the oil
i know that's about as far as it goes
it's been amazing to watch these guys work on this car
i mean you know just
well it just this this gentleman had this car
and uh you know he had he had told my fiance that he was going to sell it
i mean he just i mean he sold it to us for like three hundred bucks you know and and we took before we said we'd buy it
we uh took it to a mercedes dealership
and they looked at the engine
and uh the engine had been rebuilt about uh i think the guy had told us two hundred miles previously or something
an
they said it you know the engine alone was worth you know much more than that
so we didn't feel like there was any problem
and uh it's it's definitely been amazing to to see the [transformation] we took we took after pictures it's a shame that we didn't take before pictures because yeah
it was just
so what was the last car repair that you had done on your car
uh_huh
the control [module] a mystery box huh
that's that's impressive he's able to do a job like that because that requires special tools
oh that's interesting
that that's great
what what kind of jobs would you folks repair refer to a garage
uh_huh
wow
well um the last thing that i had to have done to my car
uh i wound up doing myself
and um that was uh tuning it up
and um i had been having a a problem where i would be driving along and and i would notice this at night when i'd be sitting at a light i would see smoke in my uh
my [headlights] and uh then later on
when you know i'd i'd get out wherever i was going
i would smell uh something had been burning
and i had pretty much figured it was oil because i had looked under the hood a couple of times
and there was a a lot more oil sort of floating around than you should have on a honda which i [ironically] have too
you'd expect the car to be really clean inside
and it run real well
real well
and so anyway i i had been thinking about it for a long time and discovered that um uh i had decided that what had happened is there's a a a little piece of metal that sits over the top of the valve train
called the valve uh uh cover
and uh i decided that there must be something wrong with the gasket or perhaps the whole cover itself hadn't been uh [tightened] down
well
or whatever
and so when i was doing this tune up i decided it was time for me to explore and sure enough that's what the problem was
and so i went out and i got a new gasket and slipped it in there on on older cars up to i i in fact i have no idea when they started doing this
but on the older cars
they used to make the gasket out of a [cork] like material
and on this car they make it out of a rubber like material
so uh
yeah
up to a certain point i used to do a lot more of it when i was younger than i do now
um and i have to admit that when the weather starts to get cold
there's just no fun like a busted [knuckle] i just uh i just can't even tell you the joy i get from that experience
and sure
and my finances have always been a little [precarious] so
sometimes repairing the car is a financial necessity
um but it's the the down side of that is that i very rarely always had the right tools and
right
yeah
exactly
yeah
it's a sort of a catch twenty two
if you're
well enough off to buy these exotic tools you need to do the work then you can
generally have somebody else do it for you
so
well uh it's funny
i've i've owned a lot of different cars i started out with [volkswagons] and then um graduated to um a honda and had that for a long time
and then graduated to a volvo
and then wound up with a honda again
and so i've i've had them all
and and uh uh have gotten to know the engines in each one of these uh sorts of vehicles and but uh i in the [volkswagon] business
i i went from you know owning a bug to owning uh one of their cars called a rabbit
and the and there was a completely different kind of engine in the rabbit um
but i i actually rebuilt a [volkswagon] bug engine at one point
and uh so i learned an awful lot about cars
have i
what
excuse me
well i'm not much of one for getting my hands dirty
i never cared for that
but i do uh well like last weekend
i was uh [attaching] a tow hitch to the front of my little pickup
so i could uh tow it behind my motor home
and i'm telling you
the air around plano here turned blue before the day was through
oh
it it was a very simple thing to do
and i didn't start until three in the afternoon
because i thought oh maybe an hour two hours at the most
eight thirty that night
i'm still working out there under the flood lights
yes
yes
no no all nuts and bolts but trying to get the holes to line up
i mean i had to [loosen] the front bumper and i you would be amazed you you think well there's just two bolts on each side that holds the bumper huh_uh
no no such luck
no
uh i don't go in like i say i don't go in for uh any deep repairs especially with today's automobiles that are computer controlled and everything
uh_huh
uh-oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's always the way
uh_huh
uh_huh
well you know i ran into the very same problem back last christmas
uh let's see where was i i was over in mississippi
and uh driving at that time i had this little ford escort which tows like a little baby behind a motor home
and i dearly loved it for that
but uh i was out driving around looking at the sights well this is vicksburg so i was looking at the civil war [battleground] and i developed this [hellacious] [squealing] just like you did only mine sounded like uh it was coming from the [depths] of hell somewhere that kind kind kind of a [squeal] yeah
and it was more outstanding when i turned in one direction
rather than the other
yes
yeah
well
oh
oh
no
wonder
uh_huh
oh boy
well i guess i was pretty lucky it only ended up costing my eighty five dollars
but of course all i got was the front brakes
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh
uh_huh
oh for [pete's] sake
well i thought they had a minimum charge of one hour
uh_huh
say are you from boston by any chance
i'm afraid so the car in the garage
where are you located right now
oh no
i'm in i'm in dallas
well i shouldn't have because i'm a damn yankee myself
well
i've spent better than half my life in tennessee north carolina florida
louisiana mississippi
um well twenty five years ago i was in the radio business
commercial radio
and well i was a d j at the time
and i i really worked on losing my new york accent
and uh i like to think i managed to stay away from it
but you're right
i do catch myself every once in a while talking along with that southern accent once in a while
okay
so uh
oh oh yeah
that i do
and i've been
well i do it on my motor home
because it means if i take it somewhere to do it
i have to take it to an r v dealer because local stations just aren't big enough to handle a motor home
and so i do the i change the oil myself
but something i have been putting off for too long now is [flushing] out the radiator that i've got to do this weekend
i've been promising and promising to do it
oh yes
definitely
i had uh-oh a few years ago i had a ford one fifty pickup
the brakes
what uh what did you have to have done to the with the brakes
jeez
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
yeah
that's their way of [capturing] your [pocketbook] i guess for those who are least [suspecting] a lot of regards
i mean uh actually
you probably had a better deal
that way
uh_huh
gee
well i generally try to find my own personal car mechanics
uh rather than taking it to a shop i'm kind of like you
it's uh i kind of equate them with some bad dentists who try to find problems in your teeth which i have had that experience
and um that's a different subject
so i better stay on cars
but the last problem i had with my vehicle was a uh fuel pump that needed replacing and that's all the major problems
i've had for a vehicle that's got eighty nine thousand miles
it's a nissan yeah
yeah
that's been very good to me
i've i'm going to uh i would eventually like to get into an american car
but right now this one's doing fine for me
but then the other problem too is just a fuel filter and the fuel pump
and i've had to replace a set of tires a couple times
but that was due to [quirks] uh if you ever have a flat tire don't ever have it plugged have a patch put on it because those plugs wear eventually will wear out all four of your tires
yeah
because it causes an [unevenness] in the rubber and uh that happened to me twice before i caught on
well enough to what happened
i had one tire uh plugged after a flat and somehow the [unevenness] of the plug just caused all the other three tires to wear out
so always have a patch put on
it's it's happened to me twice
and that's enough
other than that that's the major problems
i've had i used to change my own oil and filter but i got tired of that
so i let somebody else do it
yeah
you're you're saving about uh ten bucks by doing it yourself
but what the heck if you can afford it
um i'd rather change it myself
but i don't have the facilities well enough all the time
so that's the only major problems you've had then
yeah
what kind of vehicle
[chevette] yeah
gee whiz
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
the only thing you can do is somehow through your own network
and the friends find uh mechanic through them
that they trust and and then i'm sure that that [mechanic's] not going to uh do you in through their recommendation
now what was it
the belts
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i know this guy that's a car mechanic
and he told me i told him my belts are slipping a little bit
and he said they'll last forever all you got to do is just tighten them
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh i don't have that much problems so with my vehicle knock on wood
excuse me i just remember a seventy nine chevy nova that i once had never again that was a definite lemon
oh i got rid of that one after it cost me [megabucks]
so do you do any of your own repairs or maintenance work
yeah
do you have like an american or foreign car
okay
because i know
like i've got a a honda and and it's just beyond even my my dad's and my husband's comprehension a lot of that stuff they grew up with americans little simpler arrangements on under the hood
so so they'll change the oil for me
and um that's about it
these days
yeah
it's it's
you have to have metric don't you
yeah
yeah
well it's it's a lot easier than getting under there and finding out something major has happened that you didn't know about
and advanced auto closed fifteen minutes ago
and getting into that kind of hassle
yeah
i had um i was having problems with the cruise control
so i had to take it down and have them look at that
and they said it was something with the um the way the choke was adjusted yeah
well i had the um like the sixty thousand mile tune up done at the same time
so the whole thing was like two hundred dollars
no
it
i mean the first time i found out how much it was going to be i about fell over
but
holy cow
wow
was it is it a fairly new car
i mean was it
well that's still
i know i haven't the little bit
i know about cars i've never heard of anybody having that happen to them
man
did they
yeah
well i've the only two cars i've had i had a honda civic and it was
let's see uh i'm trying to think
how old
it was i got it in eighty one and got rid of it in eighty eight
so it was seven years old and had almost a hundred thousand miles on it
yeah
and i i mean i never had any problem with it
and i've got an accord
now and other than you know minor tune ups like with the the choke and stuff
i've never had any problem with it
so i've been really lucky
mine was an eighty eight
yeah
no
i've i've got the l x
okay
yeah
and this one's you said yours was just now about sixty five thousand and mine's an eighty eight
and it's it just turned over seventy thousand
so
yeah
sure
yeah
we've been looking recently just you know mainly window shopping
but um we've been thinking more american just
because we want a bigger car this time
and we've been looking at um crown victoria and grand [marquis] and we're leaning a little bit towards the uh grand [marquis] as far as just looks but my parents have a um continental
and they've had nothing but nightmares with that car
it's been it's been one thing after another going wrong that the local dealer either says there's nothing wrong it's your imagination or says well it's supposed to be that way just get used to it
it's been an absolute nightmare for them
so it kind of makes me dread going back to an american manufacturer
yeah
sure
yeah
uh_huh
i believe that
yeah
i wish there were bigger foreign cars really
it seems like they kind of really
yeah
i hadn't
really even
yeah
yeah
moving them up
and i i don't think people mind too much taking the car in for a tune up you know just general fifteen thousand mile maintenance or or even getting the oil changed if they know that they're not going to have any other major problems that they'll have to pay for on top of that
what did they used to say ford stood for fix or repair daily well that's great
i wonder why they can't extend the truck's you know reliability out to the cars
i mean i don't know
that's weird
really
man
that's great
i think they need to uh take a look at
and see what they can't figure out what the catch is there
yeah
and you know like i said i've had i've had great luck with the hondas
and it's kind of hard to walk away from a good thing when it's
you know you're not sure what you're going to get when you change
yeah
i had the um tires changed at fifty two thousand
they'd they'd started to to look pretty bald
well what is it that you prefer to provides as far as maintenance on your vehicle
wow
how about that
that i'm not quite as mechanically inclined although that some of the the basic things that you need to do for uh the maintenance of your warranty on a vehicle
is stuff that you can do yourself just the oil uh changed and things of that nature
that's about where i my expertise ends in in that category just you know
uh_huh
i believe that
boy i'll tell you i just got my car back from a dealer and when it was in there
i had them just go ahead change the oil and filter thirty four dollars
huh well that's uh that's quite a savings
having that talent
how many miles has it got
now what did you just replace
now i'm not even familiar with what that where that is
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
sure
well how much how long did it take to replace that
uh_huh
oh sure
uh_huh
how much would something like that cost in the garage
[jimminy] and how much do you think the parts was by itself
oh really
wow
oh gosh
yeah
at a hundred dollars a night
that's not still not too bad
sure
uh_huh
exactly
yeah
well fortunately i just
well replaced the the power antenna uh you know it kind of dumb having the garage door
i drove out before the door was completely up and the radio on
so it took off the antenna
but the [mast] itself cost uh thirty two dollars
and i went i called the dealer and they wanted two hundred and twenty to put it in
and
gosh
and then i went to
well it
i i looked at it myself to see if i could do it myself because i you know i i feel i'm pretty competent and handy
but unfortunately they buried this one in the sixty six [mazdas] you have to remove the dash and the fuse box to get to the motor and so they say there's uh three hours of labor just to [uncover] where the the metal [shaft] goes in because it goes through the through the door in between the windshield and the drivers side door and comes out above the drivers head
yeah
so it's terribly engineered everything was visible oh yeah
anymore just putting everything on a chip is your going to have to replace the chip unless you have the tools to diagnose what's the problem with the chip
i have a a seventy nine uh mazda
r x seven first year of the rotary engine that i used to do
i used to work on because it you know back seventy nine if i was to do something screw it up electrically uh i i handled everything i put in [antenna's] there you know the antenna the [replacements] parts
all that kind of thing
but when it came to ever giving any kind of tune [up's] or things like that
i'd take it into the shop anything basic yeah
and they just stop making them now
so it's kind of interesting
when it's work great smooth
i suppose
but i had a hundred and twenty eight thousand on it when i sold it
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
wow
sure
sure
oh really
well that's good
sure
uh_huh
right
sure
sure
of course of course
uh_huh
right
well it seems like you've got a very valuable talent
oh great
uh yeah
that's true
well it's been goods talking to you
every once in a while down here at the main site
oh it's been beautiful
there you go
starting to [defrost] well that's great
you too
all righty
good bye
it's terrible
bye bye
okay
yeah
the topic is uh car repairs
and the last one i've had done
it was a fluke the last one i had done
well i was driving down six thirty five at the um coming from north dallas
and i was uh going um almost hitting the um entry where all the the [merges] go from six thirty five seventy five and coit and uh all of a sudden i get this liquid all over my hood and my windshield and i had smelled it before
i thought
and i thought that it was coming from another vehicle
and then when i saw it go all over my car i thought huh_uh
something came through my radiator and just something's wrong inside my car
so i i was waiting for my car to collapse you know
so i was going about sixty five miles an hour
and it kept going
and i thought well what is going on and so i made it home and i looked at my car
and it was a mess
so i immediately the next morning i took it to my dealer and i i left it just
well i drove it in the the night before
and he says well it looks like your uh antifreeze uh something happened to your antifreeze and they checked everything in that car
and it wasn't from my car
it was from some other car
some other car did that to me
well i'm glad but it was a very [panicky] situation
but no
i do not do any of my own repairs the only thing i do to my car is put gas in it
and wash it
oh you do good for you
that's great
oh i see
oh well he probably showed you all the tricks of the trade
that's great
sure
you did
well bless your heart
well i think that's wonderful
i mean i think that's great
uh_huh
well gee you should uh you know you should get some money for your talents and start [branching] out
it is
oh well you know uh loosening those nuts and bolts would be a problem for me
and i know they have some really sophisticated equipment today where they do it electronically and all that
but that takes money to buy those kind of tools too
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
no
i wouldn't want
i wouldn't want anybody to touch my car without having all the the
yeah
the computer and all and everything
because you have that uh as a a gift to you don't you
that they do it for you for [gratis] uh_huh
right
well i have a woman's agreement on mine
and they they did it for three years
yeah
yeah
that really was nice
so i uh appreciated that uh present that they gave me
oh
uh_huh
right
well don't they have if you that you hook it up to the computer
and the computer does the analysis and tells you
what's wrong
with the different areas
yeah
yeah
well i i have put windshield washer [solvent] in the container
but
no
i have not
this one hasn't needed any
thus thus far um it's been a super car
it's uh let's see uh it's three years old
it's it's a plymouth [acclaim] i really like it
it's been a very dependable um no maintenance i have not
[channeling] all of her energy into running now
yeah
okay  
so which uh what basketball teams are you interested in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
they're more of a football team than they are basketball team  
yeah  
you know that's true  
i don't think i've ever seen them nationally on basketball  
uh_huh  
huh  
um  
that's not too bad  
uh_huh  
well i'm uh originally from the saint louis area  
so the only basketball team pro anyway in that part of the country is chicago  
so i i do pull for chicago  
i mean of course this year is a good year to be a a chicago fan i guess because they're doing pretty good  
yeah  
yeah  
um as far as college teams uh i know it's really easy to say  
but i've been pulling for uh duke for about four years now  
so uh   so i finally am feeling better about myself as far as college teams although i've i've really you know  
again being from saint louis i pull for missouri  
uh but they're on uh probation this year  
so you can't do much about that  
but uh  
oh yeah  
i watched every uh   i watched all three games of that  
and uh i was very pleased with all three games because kansas uh  
you know i was pulling for kansas on the other side  
so it was real nice to have the the teams that were there  
of course i wasn't really  
i mean i i  
u n l v kind of gave me the impression of being a uh uh-oh i don't know a macho team you know  
they just didn't seem they seemed to think they were better than everybody else  
and and maybe they were  
but um i was real happy to see them get knocked off  
so  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
u n l v  
yeah  
they they play the pro style is   what i've always called it  
and uh  
yeah  
the fast breaks and and  
right  
and uh u n l v wasn't used to that  
of course i've i knew whenever u n l v went in at half time  
see i don't know if they were necessarily behind  
but they weren't ahead as much as they normally are  
uh and you know that meant that they had to play a second half  
and they they've not had to do that all year  
and uh  
that's right  
i mean [duke's] schedule was was so much harder than u n l v's that it uh it just made them a much tougher team overall  
and uh that had to help them a lot  
uh_huh  
so do i take it that you think though that the lakers will uh   will win  
or  
i mean [portland's] pretty good um  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
well he's uh  
i don't  
i  
he he to me is not a center  
he's more of a   a real tall forward  
uh  
i think magic does a  
oh yeah  
that sure is  
it  
i think that's going to be one of those that's uh that's won by the home team you know  
whoever has home court advantage is going to win that one i think  
[detroit's] in that same uh that that same uh division  
no  
but as i heard isaiah came back this week  
so uh that might help them  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
he's yeah but he's been yeah but he's been kind of up and down all year  
uh one game and he'll be playing to where everything he throws up goes in  
and then the next time he'll   you know he can't seem to hit the side of a barn  
so i don't know  
i'm i'm kind of i'm not sure about him this year  
uh_huh  
well that's when   you do it  
yeah  
well the dark horses  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
well anybody who has david [robinson]   has got to have a chance anyway  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
huh  
that's true  
yeah  
well then he's gone now  
so   they don't have to worry about that  
well i thought he was gone period  
i i didn't read the story  
but i i read that uh  
well that might have been what it was  
but i i guess the headlines said something about him you know that the mavericks released him or something  
i maybe i [misunderstood] what they meant  
well yeah  
you never know  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
that's what i think  
yeah  
yeah  
it's coming up isn't it  
portland  
yeah  
portland  
uh_huh  
they've got two the two johnson brothers  
or they're not brothers  
but i mean there's two guys named johnson on their team that are really good or doing good or something  
i forget how that works  
but   um like i said they're doing extremely good right now  
phoenix isn't doing too bad  
so   it it ought to be a real interesting play off  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
when it's on the line  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
well it's been nice talking to you  
all right  
take care  
well i guess i'm a big laker l a laker fan   when it comes to pros  
uh the college ranks um i guess i really  
of course i try to follow my alma mater  
that's uh b y u   in utah  
but they don't have much of a team usually  
yeah  
yeah  
you see them in football on t v once in awhile  
you never see them on a on nationally basketball  
they uh last year they had a really good team  
the year that danny [aines] was there  
that was about five six years ago by now  
so they made it to the sweet sixteen   once or twice   in their history  
and that's  
and they usually lose in the first round  

how about you  
uh_huh  
is it the bulls you're talking about  
yeah  
the pro  
is that right  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
so did you watch the uh final four this year  
every game  
right  
right  
yeah  
i i watched that game  
and uh it was a good game  
it was a very close game and hard fought game  
and it just  
i don't know  
it looked like u n l v may have had more uh talent  
but as far as playing together as a team that day it didn't duke seemed to have them off balance  
and that uh they didn't couldn't  
aren't they more of a running gun team  
right  
yeah  
fast breaks and things and  
they shut all that down and made them play half court it seemed  
and  
right  
right  
right  
they didn't have they didn't have to go through some tough games during the year  
and that and that so that's a terrible time to have to deal with that right in when it when it counts so much  
right  
i think i think that that probably was the difference in that game  
because it really could have gone either way down to the end you know  
well  
i don't know  
probably not  
since [kareem's] retired   they haven't had a center  
and uh they've got perkins  
but i don't think he's really been a super star for them  
yeah  
right  
right  
so  
they'll make it you know  
it it's going to be a war between uh between chicago and uh and uh uh boston celtics  
that's going to be a war  
it's going to be a great series  
yeah  
one of those two will probably be um in there  
um let me see  
where does detroit fit in  
uh_huh  
so i don't know  
those three  
uh detroit hasn't been having that great a year this year  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they have the they have the play off experience  
but  
so does detroit i mean so does chicago so all three of them do   with larry bird back uh  
you can never count the celtics out when larry [bird's]   starting to click on all cylinders  
they say he's starting to do starting to play  
right  
right  
right  
last i've heard is that he's starting to peak right now  
he's   starting to be more consistent you know right at the right time of the year  
oh any dark horses i uh you know  
san antonio   san antonio is the dark horse that could could really flip in there i think  
yeah  
he's got to be pretty much you know  
i use to say [akimo] [lija] was the dominant player you know when he  
against any team he would dominate  
but [robinson's] getting up there where   every game he's just  
i mean it looks like he's going in for a [dunk]  
and they kind of just [scoot] out of his way or take a step back you know  
nobody's got enough beef i guess to challenge him when he's when he's driving hard to the [hoop]  
he's uh he's  
too bad the mavericks couldn't get him  
with roy tarpley they're in big trouble  
yeah  
for awhile anyway  
i heard he was suspended   because of his  
um if they did they'd still have to pay his contract  
they may have done it  
it was a lot of money  
he was making like  
i heard on the radio it was sixty three thousand and change a month  
that's what he was being paid you know  
he wasn't even playing  
oh boy what a good job he had  
he ruined his sweet position  
yeah  
i'm looking forward to the the pro play off uh  
l a  
yeah  
san antonio  
who's the other one that's doing so well this year  
is that portland  
portland  
i haven't seen them on much t v that much at all  
but all i can do is hear about  
boy they have the seeing eye  
what do they have  
walter davis and  
um  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think there's any clear pick you know  
i guess the two teams that you can't count out are the celtics because of bird and the lakers because of magic johnson  
they are two guys that seem to find a way when they  
when it's on the line they seem to find a way   you know  
uh so those are what makes a champion i guess  
yeah  
nice talking to you  
take care  
bye  
well did you get a chance to watch any of the games  
oh okay  
yeah  
no  
i don't think so  
because uh i saw just a little bit of the game today  
and he was out there playing  
although uh i what i saw was at the end of the first quarter  
i think he only had like eight points   at the end of the first quarter  
they thought that was big news  
so i don't know  
but i don't know who won  
and uh i don't know  
who do you normally pull for the the mavericks or  
oh yeah  
oh jeez  
yeah  
because that's just dollars right out of the franchise  
oh man  
now i uh i i've always been pulling for the lakers for a long time  
and uh   not just not just because they always win  
but uh when they had uh [akeem]   anybody who was old as that playing that well you know i just kind of had to go with them  
now they kind of got caught up with a lot of the other players and uh course uh all the people that follow the lakers and everything out there in in california  
uh and it also helps when they were winning  
i was uh i always wondered that you know  
i i will take a look at the individual score you know in the individual stance in the n b a  
and you know they they have in the paper you know like fifteen different categories  
and they'll have like a individuals uh they'll have the the highest [scorer] the top [rebounders] uh [assists] foul shooting percentages and all that  
and you go down through  
and virtually every one of the categories there isn't uh a laker in the top ten  
usually hardly any any anybody in the top twenty except for like magic  
and uh yet the lakers continue to win  
so you're right  
i think they do really play much better as a team than they do uh uh each one you know individually at their spot  
but uh  
yeah  
well i understand that uh  
i guess boston's really uh giving uh  
are aren't they playing detroit  
i think boston's playing detroit  
and i think they're really giving them a run for their money  
did he get hurt again  
yeah  
yeah  
i tell you what  
i guess it's tough to play that many games and still stay healthy  
yeah  
yeah  
he ought to have his own bed come along with him you know  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
matter of fact i watched him uh on t v you know sink i don't know a  
jeez it was like uh uh thirty five baskets in thirty seconds or something like that from three point range  
unbelievable  
oh i don't know  
did you ever play much basketball  
yeah  
it really is for a [noncontact] sport   quote unquote  
yeah  
really  
some of those guys got pretty funny looking uh eye wear  
man  
yeah  
several years ago when i was up in uh cleveland i was staying at the marriott  
and the cavaliers were playing somebody  
i think it was like utah or somebody like that  
and uh i was down by the pool  
and there was all these guys standing around about chest deep in water  
now i wear uh contacts  
and i i had my glasses on  
and i went down there and and just jumped into the water where they were  
and it went right up over my head  
and i came up [spittering] and [sputtering] for air  
and they were all the basketball players there to play the cavaliers  
they were all like uh like six eight and uh you know six ten  
and they were standing in water that was like six foot   you know  
and it was uh it was funny i tell you  
i saw i saw a guy  
i don't remember what his name was  
but he got on the elevator  
and he had his [swimsuit] on  
and uh he was just skin and bones you know  
it looked like something out of africa  
and uh i made some comment  
and uh he says yeah  
he says i weigh about uh uh two hundred and forty pounds  
but he says it's not much when you stretch it over seven foot one  
so you're right  
those guys really you know the the big ones  
i don't even know how much [ewing] weighs  
but uh he's got to be way up there  
god that's a that's a lot  
that's a lot of a lot of guy coming down on you  
jeez  
i didn't even see  
who's who's supposed to have the the uh the best uh draft picks  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i used to go down to reunion arena uh  
went down there a couple years on the day of the draft  
and that was really pretty interesting  
they usually have uh uh you know a video uh highlights of the season you know and basically kind of walks you through what happened to the [mavs] and who they traded for and how they did and a lot of good footage both the good and the bad  
i i don't know  
i haven't i didn't go down there last year  
but uh it it was only like a couple dollars to get in  
and it was really kind of interesting  
but uh so who do you thinks going to win the playoffs  
chicago uh and let's see uh golden state and the lakers and chicago and philadelphia  
think [chicago's] playing philadelphia  
and then the uh  
shoot i can't remember them all now  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
n b a playoffs  
philadelphia was uh [favored] by one point over chicago and the lakers one point over golden state and detroit by five over uh boston  
jeez  
think so  
i tell you what  
those guys really hang tough  
now i i'd like to see them back up there again  
they really uh they really gave some some really good years of uh uh of enjoyment and fun and everything  
have you ever been up there to boston garden  
well i don't know  
is that in  
i i haven't really gone to a lot of games live  
but boy i'd sure like to  
basketball's gotten to be a lot of fun  
uh no  
i i just kind of i i kind of watch them on the news  
and that's about it  
uh the michael [jordan's] on chicago bulls isn't he  
what did he get hurt last night  
or  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
no  
i kind of feel like the about the mavericks the way i do about the cowboys now  
yeah  
uh just all this roy tarpley stuff  
and and uh what is it  
their you know he got he's in trouble again down in houston  
and and uh they said the other night his contract is so big that if anything happens to him you know if they don't trade him they'll have to pay him off you know  
so they're rather have him except that he gets in trouble all the time and falls off the wagon and and and have some chance of him playing you know earning his money  
sure is  
oh yeah  
they're consistent  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well they play better as a team than anybody else seems like  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
year in and year out it's not like they have you know  
a lot of teams will will will win in the playoffs  
and then the next year they'll be all   they'll be too busy doing their endorsements and stuff to to concentrate on the game  
yeah  
except larry [bird's] hurt  
he his back is bad all the time now i think  
yeah  
they play two or three times a week like you know  
and then they go on road trips  
and they do the same thing  
and and then they and then they stay out for two or three weeks at a time  
so it really gets you know  
i mean they're sleeping in different bed every night  
and   and i imagine that really helps his back  
uh_huh  
yeah  
he said he said the other night on the news that he hadn't done any extra shooting for six weeks  
so you know and he's the one that's always winning the uh the the outside the three point shot  
and   he does that every year  
uh_huh  
yeah  
not much  
just uh just just playing horse and stuff like that  
yeah  
because it's it kind of a violent game  
and they  
yeah  
and they don't wear any pads  
i figured  
yeah  
they have to wear [goggles] because they get hit in the in the face with [elbows] all the time  
well it's it's i was looking in the paper for something on it  
and here's the top n b a draft prospects  
and uh i mean they're all the size of football players you know except they're just taller  
uh_huh  
six foot  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
oh yeah  
well here's a here's a guy from l s u stanley roberts  
he's seven feet tall  
and he weighs two hundred and eighty pounds  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it doesn't even say  
it doesn't say  
here it says uh it says  
the this is for [underclassmen] for june twenty six  
and uh i guess i guess they don't they have they they uh have a lottery on it  
they pick numbers  
and that's how they take them in order  
it must not be according to their how they did during the year  
uh uh  
uh_huh  
i don't know  
who's going  
is it chicago and  
utah portland boston and detroit  
okay  
that's the n b a  
i think boston boston will win  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh  
uh_huh  
all right  
i had to register us in there  
hopefully you're a basketball fan  
hopefully you're a basketball fan  
great  
i'm glad you are  
i'm not  
i couldn't care about any of it  
but go ahead  
i i would like to talk about uh maybe college basketball  
i'd like to see it be more of an amateur sport  
i'd like to see it turned back to like the southwest conference down here  
i would like to see texas and all the teams uh  
since we're supposed to talk about specific teams i would like to see them turned back to where the college player plays for four years and then they're not they're not semi pro   and just go on and are stolen by the the the league you know in three years  
plus i'd like to see them to be true athletes where they're they're taking a regular college course  
you know i'd like to see  
they didn't ask that but they're talking about college teams  
i you know  
since you're being you can talk for hours go ahead  
you you if you like sports go right ahead with this one  
yeah  
that's surprising that they that they have better requirements  
that's good  
that's what i like to see  
go ahead  
i'm all for that  
that's great  
oh  
yeah  
oh i i agree  
i think that that there's a lot of [inconsistencies] when some conference uh players come from outside of texas you know and play us here  
uh they're obviously practicing sixty hours a week you know  
and there's no consistency  
seems to me that like purdue when they're trying  
a student athlete is spending so many hours in class  
he only has twenty twenty five whatever hours he has to spend on practice  
he should be playing they all should be playing another team that that has about twenty hours to practice a week  
but there are teams that practice sixty hours a  
week they're not going to class at all  
i mean that's that's   what i mean by semi pro  
there's too many semi pros in college  
and i think they ought to get rid of that  
well i'm all for i'm all for the oh  
baseball has a uh a uh minor league system  
and i think that the football and basketball they asked us to talk about basketball should you know let let them go have a semi pro team  
but i think i'd like to see college athletes  
let's talk about college basketball  
i like that  
any basketball that i like  
i like that  
i i don't i don't like the pros at all  
uh they're high scoring  
there's no defense it seems like  
and they just kind of score a hundred twenty five points you know hundred twenty two you know  
and i don't really get much out of that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i like high school football which again is not the subject  
but that's so much fun to watch because they're they're pure amateurs you know and there's no money involved  
you go to college  
you don't really know  
it loses it somewhere  
whatever sport it is if they're really putting a lot of money in  
these players let's face it ninety percent are being paid  
so  
i'd like to see college basketball and all the other sports go back to being amateurs  
i don't care about seeing the best players in the world play  
i like to see the people going to texas just play the ones that are in class  
and i'd like to see athletes uh or fellow students like myself you know to play the game  
i i in fact i like amateur sports  
i don't see it has to be  
i don't think that college football or basketball should have to be semi pro you know  
i wish it'd return to the good old days of the amateur everybody play  
that's what i like  
everybody should play you know  
yeah  
well again i'd just like to see the true athlete the true student athlete   play basketball you know  
i don't like to see the ones that aren't have no intention of going to class uh  
then again just picking a school  
texas is   is usually not the best team you know  
because the other teams are i'm sure practice a lot more  
and s m u down here in [footballs] and trying to get back uh to having true student athletes  
and and that's what i think is a lot of fun  
to win and money  
yeah  
yeah  
i always thought that university was for an education and then sports of course is part of the education  
i don't think that sports has to make a lot of money or you do away with it  
i don't know why the don't keep fencing and all that you know  
and and they seem to be  
there's articles in the time magazine and all about whether it be basketball or anything else  
if it's not making money then we'll do away with it  
well that's not  
i thought it was so that you give them an education of that particular discipline  
and i i i just think that amateur sports should stay in universities  
that's where it's at  
i'm sure [saddened] to see  
i think it was wisconsin or somewhere they were getting rid of fencing and a couple of other things  
i don't know what it was  
it just seems so sad to have to only rely on you know college football  
is that all they're going to have to make money you know  
but i didn't think that was the objective to make money  
but it seems like it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you went to indiana university  
oh purdue  
okay  
well good  
you're you're a t i up in sherman  
oh very good  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm in the facilities there down here in dallas  
uh certainly high school football and college football  
but again high school football is just so much fun to watch  
because uh you know not everybody plays of course but they're still  
it's good  
and it's still  
you know the kids  
and there's   absolutely no money involved whatsoever  
and you know they're going to class you know  
it it's it's real amateur sports  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
is that right  

i never heard  
that's uh  
i never been in a football game in high school that had that many  
well my office [mate] here earl he he goes to all the maverick games  
and he loves that  
he he would be  
this is a great question for him uh   to talk about  
like he's got  
i'm looking at his calendar  
he's got all over the place  
and he goes to a lot of the maverick games and everything  
but i i i can't get interested at all  
zero  
i i listen to him  
and occasionally i'll watch them on channel eleven  
but gee  
i can't uh  
more than five minutes of a basketball game just seems about  
that's it  
of uh pro anyway  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm surprised a little bit when you're talking about basketball how some players work  
mavericks had oh two players this year that they got rid of last year  
i'll think of them in a minute  
perkins sam perkins  
can't think of the other one  
they're both  
pardon me  
yeah  
tarpley  
and they both left this past year  
and both of them were on playoff teams uh  
so they benefitted tremendously by leaving the mavericks  
and sam perkins here he's one guy i did follow  
from  
think he was in virginia  
i can't think of what school he went to  
but from  
i guess he's been here about five six seven years in the pros  
and he was  
he never quite achieved the you know the super stardom that he had   in in college  
but uh basketball they have a nice  
i don't know if you've down to the sports for reunion arena  
it's  
okay  
excuse me  
yeah  
i'm from indiana  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
um well i know like what you just said um  
purdue had to had to uh  
their best player this year you know averaged twenty points a game  
they had to make him sit the bench and actually kicked him off the team because um his uh grades even though they passed big ten standings and they passed you know n c double a they weren't they did not pass um purdue requirements  
and so  
yeah  
and see  
so he was treated like all the rest of students you know  
and so um their very best player  
they probably lost over half their games because you know by twenty points which is what he averaged um  
and so you know he had to sit you know  
he was kicked off the team  
and then they've got three players top you know recruiting class this year that  
they're going to have to be well  
the the prep school they go to before they can play   because they aren't smart enough  
you know it's just sad  
because i mean purdue even though they're one of the few schools that really uh stress academics they're suffering you know  
and  
yeah  
like  
yeah  
that's what happened to this guy  
i mean he was uh he didn't go to class and so they just said you know you can't make the grades  
you're going to have to  
see you later  
yeah  
i don't either  
it's  
yeah  
um yeah  
it is fun to watch some real disciplined teams play in in college  
and i saw [princeton] i think it was or harvard play this year  
they're like all white  
and their starting guard had s a t scores of fifteen hundred  
and it was so funny to watch them play against the other teams  
because it was like they played so much smarter and more disciplined  
i don't know if they won very many games  
but i don't know  
their style of play was so much different from   from the teams that just run and gun  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm kind of racist i guess when i say i like to see the white guys do well you know instead of the run and gun all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
in  
there's just so much pressure on the schools i think to win though you know  
yeah  
and you know it's like if they don't win they don't get any money so and the school [suffers] which is kind of bad  
but that's just how it always is  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
huh it really is  
i know there's a lot of pressure on schools to have a winning program   to get the best athletes so they can   keep their seats full  
uh purdue  
yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
are you from dallas area  
yeah  
i guess football is the big sport down here isn't it  
yeah  
you heard of   have you heard of [damon] [bailey]   the i u white guard that plays  
well last year when he was in high school they drew a crowd of like forty one thousand for the state finals when he played  
yeah  
so that's i mean that's pretty big  
like he's from indiana  
and he plays for indiana now  
and indiana him to be a lot bigger than pro basketball up there  
the [pacers] don't really draw that big of a crowd  
you know the high school games i mean that seems to be the big attraction and college  
yeah  
seems like you could set the score at a hundred   and then give them five minutes to play  
then it'd be the same result  
because they they start  
they shoot so much  
and then the last what five minutes they decide who's going to be the winner i guess  
tarpley  
is he one  
tarpley  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
you want to go ahead and tell me your favorite team or who you think will be doing well this year  
are we talking about is this the n b a  
this is college   college okay  
uh_huh  
and see that's probably all all i saw  
i we have moved in the last couple years from utah to texas  
and there's so many colleges and universities in texas we haven't really followed them too much  
and none of them are our our alma mater  
so that seems to help  
uh i i follow it especially around the playoffs  
so course i was real familiar with the utah jazz  
and the [mailman] or [karl] [malone] was you know pretty big thing  
and the lakers have always been amazing to watch  
i i did keep track a little bit of the mavericks  
they've not had any good seasons for a long time   and have a lot of problems with with tarpley  
and maybe now that that's over they'll they'll come out of it  
but  
yeah  
i hope they do something  
they need to  
or they're not going to have any of the team left at all  
yeah  
kind of like the cowboys i guess  
yeah  
they coming out of it this year  
we'll see if it's held on  
the bulls  
yeah  
they'll probably be pretty good  
course the celtics are always really really good too with their players  
be interesting to see how the olympics does this year with all the the n b a players playing on the olympic team  
so  
yeah  
i don't know   how close i'll follow them though  
and the season hasn't started yet  
i'm usually more the end of the season person  
and we need to talk about baseball  
and so  
well  
it's  
yeah  
yeah  
it is it is  
and that's why i've  
i guess my mind went blank  
it's like last season was so long ago  
and i haven't really even started thinking about basketball yet  
so  
but this wasn't a good subject  
but   we'll see how our predictions come true  
okay  
it's good talking to you  
all righty  
bye  
uh well where i'm from the atlantic coast conference is a very big conference  
and course we have duke university that was the national champions last year  
so i'm kind of hoping that they'll repeat again this year  
they have a lot of the same players back  
no  
this is college   basketball  
right  
we have like carolina and duke and georgia tech and n c state teams that are normally ranked in the top twenty  
so hopefully we'll have a good year  
i don't really follow the n b a very closely  
do you like professional basketball  
yeah  
well that's an up and coming team though  
that's somebody you can get behind and   be patient  
yeah  
they seem to be kind of not having a very good few seasons  
but i think chicago will probably with the n b a again  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
it will be interesting  
it will certainly be different  
yeah  
oh my atlanta braves  
well i really do uh you know  
the basketball [season's] supposed to start in the next couple of weeks  
it's a long season  
yeah  
it's a little early  
we definitely will  
good to talk to you  
bye bye  
okay  
[lucille] i'm on on  
and our okay our topic was  
did you hear our topic  
all right  
basketball  
i guess i'm probably a lot like you  
i'm a dallas maverick fan  
well unfortunately i don't expect a great deal out of them  
they just have too many problems too many [ailments] too many hurt bones and maybe too much age at this point  
you know when roy tarpley just now he messed up on them it just hurt them so bad  
i feel   like everyone else  
i feel sorry for donald carter and the members of the team and the management team and everyone else  
it just seems like they were just getting themselves in a position where they could possibly be a final a final team playing for all of it  
national championship or the world championship and something like this happens  
yeah  
i think at this time we're just in a a rebuilding type of phase you know  
i think that probably be evident with the more and more the more and more young guys they draft  
but  
oh gosh  
i'm so much a maverick maverick fan i don't know  
probably the boston celtics  
i've just always like the boston celtics  
they have a they have a similar situation in that a lot of old guys on the team  
and but they're still playing good ball  
but i'm i've always been a boston [celtic] fan too  
but you know i've lived in texas since seventy four  
so being a [transplanted] texan in in the dallas area i have to stick with those dallas mavericks  
yes  
we do you know  
yes  
i go to a few games  
i haven't been to many  
i'm not a season ticket holder or anything  
i was a season ticket holder of the cowboys for years  
and when my kids got to a certain age and went off to school and college and doing their own thing sort of gets boring going by yourself  
oh you bet  
well i don't know  
it seems like [rolando] [blackman] and and [harper] sort of carry the team  
they just  
i don't know  
i'm afraid to say that's probably who they need to trade to get someone in there good  
but and that can really help the team  
but they do that  
they trade the nucleus of their power right now  
well you know i feel like uh the best they can hope for this year is probably an opportunity to make the playoffs  
i like their coach  
i really like a lot  
and i just i think he deserves a good break  
i think he deserves a healthy team so they can really see what he can do for the club  
i think donald carter the owner i think with all he's invested he deserves a   a healthy team for one year and a good break also  
this thing with roy tarpley just upset everyone i think fans owners management everyone  
you bet  
i think they're fools if they ever bring him back  
hate to put it that way  
i just would not believe him any more  
no  
there's an old saying you can you can lead a horse to water  
but you can't make him drink  
so  
and i think [tarpley's] just a sad case  
but to be making a a million dollars a year that's pretty sad  
oh i think you're right  
everything has been put out of perspective now  
you know you take a a young kid roy [tarpley's] age i'd say he was twenty one when he came into the league  
and now he's probably an old age of uh twenty five or six   and making all that money  
well that's uh that's quite a that's a little more of a challenge for a young man than they they need at that point in their life i think  
i think you know it's created by  
[lucille] hughes  
all right  
and what  
yes  
uh_huh  
well i certainly am too  
now tell me what you expect from the mavericks this year  
um  
yes sir  
oh  
well do you think it's time that we go for new uh coaches  
is that part of our problem  
well it just it's so discouraging that they can't really  
i mean they're entitled to more than they've been able to do so far  
i i'm awfully sorry that the mavericks can't come on and and do  
roy who's your next best team  
or who do you like after the mavericks  
well  
we certainly need to support them  
do we not  
do you go to the game  
yes  
it does  
i'm sure it would in such a monstrous place down there  
but um maybe next maybe they can do some  
i don't know  
who do they need to trade  
yes sir  
it seems that way to me  
i course i don't know any of the newer ones that they have  
and i'm not well versed on their capabilities  
but we really need to do something  
i really  
yes sir  
and they have just done as much as they can for that man  
and he apparently can't straighten his act out  
so we need to to build on something more positive than that  
oh i do too  
i certainly would agree to that  
well it um  
i mean you can't give anyone too many chances  
and i think he has gone over the limit  
that's right  
well  
it is tragic  
i don't um  
i mean we're going to have to do something about all of these fabulous salaries they're paying to all of our athletes i think  
yes sir  
i think you're right  
i believe that one  
so  
uh did you watch the bulls this morning  
they won in a [squeaker]  
they won by   they won by two points  
uh they were behind as they headed into each quarter  
and then they came back in the second half  
and at the end i think they were uh looked they looked like they were closing it out  
and then detroit kept coming back  
and   uh isaiah missed a three point attempt   at the end  
and uh i think the bulls won by two  
i think they do as a matter of fact  
one of the uh commentators said that they expected that the bulls would uh if they continued at their current pace uh set an n b a record for seventy wins in a season  
yeah  
they looked real good  
and  
right  
yeah  
well they they're they're balancing their attack  
and i think they look like uh they'll repeat although uh here in the bay area people are real impressed with what don [nelson's] done with the warriors  
i saw the the second half of the game last night  
and they were impressive  
billy owens looks like he was  
that was a good move for the warriors to trade for him  
well they traded away uh mitch richmond  
or is it tim [hardaway]  
one of the two uh who along with uh chris [mullen] was you know  
though three were three of the best in the n b a  
and   and they made a heck of a [threesome]  
and they traded either richmond or [hardaway] to sacramento for billy owens  
and uh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
he's really worked out well  
they've got the warriors have got a team uh  
and uh i think that will be real interesting to see what they can do  
they're ahead  
and the lakers are down i guess in fourth uh position in the west  
and   i don't know  
in the east i don't know uh  
is it boston in uh first place  
boy  
they've had a hard time  
they said   they've lost a lot of [squeakers]  
yeah  
how do people in texas deal with dallas houston and san antonio  
do you for example like san   antonio in dallas  
so there isn't much [crossover] huh  

yeah  
yeah  
it's true  
because san antonio isn't that close to you are they  
no  
is it  
yeah  
so it's not something you'd drive  
yeah  
i was thinking maybe david [robinson] made a bit of a difference with kids and that sort of thing  
they've done a good job  
i mean of course drafting a franchise like him certainly  
yeah  
i mean that's  
i think the way it uh i think that's the way it works now in basketball  
you you know magic was a franchise for the lakers   and you know uh bird for the for the uh celtics  
and  
well it  
well yeah  
well i think you're right  
and i think isaiah thomas would fit in detroit  
and i think those things do make a difference  
and there are [marquee] players  
and i think   i think jordan and the and the bulls have to be uh considered the likely favorites  
i don't know who would meet them in the west  
uh i don't know how good portland will turn out to be by the end of the year  
they were so  
you know i wasn't i i i watched only a few minutes of it  
and i wasn't paying attention  
uh and so i don't know uh  
but phoenix you know phoenix and portland have both been very good clubs  
and  
you know what  
i watched a little bit of uh of the bulls game  
and i uh had to leave  
uh in fact i i think the bulls were ahead when i uh when i left  
who won the game  
is that right  
uh_huh  
wow they've got the don't they have the best record now  
yeah  
wow  
they they do  
and they you know  
i think by uh by [relieving] some of the pressure off of uh of uh uh  
michael jordan really helped them out  
you know he doesn't have they don't have to rely on him to score you know thirty or forty points at every   at every game  
so  
oh i know  
i'm  
yeah  
i saw the i saw the warriors uh just a little bit of the highlights of the warriors uh dallas game  
they look good  
yeah  
now i don't uh i haven't kept up with what was going on with uh with the  
uh_huh  
good move  
yeah  
uh i think boston's in first  
uh i you know i haven't kept up with any of the other uh teams  
i'm so depressed with the dallas mavericks you know  
oh man  
that  
well yeah  
but i mean just this whole year has been just disastrous for them  
and uh you know they're going i i think they're going for an all time record of how many you know losses in a row they can they they can uh pull out  
it's unbelievable  
uh  
well actually actually the the the dallas area here uh pulls for dallas  
uh san antonio pulls for san antonio  
and houston pulls for for the rockets  
there really  
i mean not a whole lot you know  
i mean you find them they're find them be to be pretty [loyal] uh in with the local teams  
uh you know it's kind of i guess it's kind of like uh there in the bay area you know you don't find a whole lot of uh of sacramento fans  
really isn't  
uh uh  
it's you know it's it's about the same uh same distance from here to to san antonio as it is   from there to sacramento  
so it's yeah it's not really a local you know  
uh he does a lot of local stuff there in san antonio  
and they i mean they have got a great club you know  
yeah  
yeah  
that always makes a big difference  
so  
yeah  
and you know uh you know i used to think that that one one player really doesn't make a club  
but it really does you know  
you get somebody like magic  
and you can see the decline in that team  
once he left you know it's it's just not the same uh it's not the same team  
there's not the leadership there that they used to rely on him for  
oh yeah  
who won that portland game  
uh  
all right there we go
so what's your [prediction] on north carolina and duke i mean my gosh
uh look who kansas beat to get to meet north carolina
i mean they they beat uh arkansas
and they beat and they beat they beat indiana
they [creamed] indiana
well i i thought so too
they they just had a [letdown] in the second half
and they couldn't recover well they say u n l v may be the greatest amateur team ever
yeah
big time
i i'll bet they could hold their own in the n b a
seriously
i i bet there's teams they could beat possibly yeah
actually i'm kind of a lakers fan myself
oh yeah
him and worthy and uh
yeah
yeah
he's good coming off the bench now
and of course the other they got sam perkins
and that that helps
oh okay
well you remember sam perkins when he was at north carolina don't you
see he was a [teammate] with james worthy and michael jordan the the three of those guys were the three [pillars] of the national championship team north carolina had back in eighty two
i think when jordan was just a freshman
yeah
in fact uh jordan hit the winning basket to win by one point with like sixteen seconds to go
they gave him the ball he took the shot he makes it
he's a hero if he misses it
he's a goat he made it
yep
well i really don't think anybody can beat u n l v
they they might beat themselves
but i don't know they're at such a high level of [intensity] they would have to have a really off day
and somebody else would have to have a really on day
and if that if both of those happened at the same time you might have an upset
yep
yep
they're absolutely [relentless] well they're so close to an undefeated season they can taste it
and they want to make history
so i don't think they're going to lack for motivation
well i mean it's it's no [disgrace] to lose in the final four
well u n l v is kind of in a different league from everybody else
it it's kind of similar to back when u c l a
was winning seven titles in a row from sixty seven to seventy three back then they they called
the well with him
yeah
and with bill [walton] and they used to call it the uh the u c l a [invitational] because they figured everybody else is coming to just to be there
yeah
i i don't know that any one team is going to be able to dominate for that many years in a row
uh partly because the really many of the really outstanding players leave college before they turn seniors so you don't
yeah
so you don't really get to keep the the nucleus of your best talent for the whole four years
well this has been fun
i've enjoyed talking with you
and god bless and you have a good day now
well i think uh n c a a is going to go to kansas
they just won it
holy cow i just walked in
i i didn't even i guess uh
i can't believe it's over
what was the score
well i suppose they must be they must be pretty good if they took on u n l v
so
well you
and everybody else
well a lot of pressure on them though i think uh i don't think they had the same type of enthusiasm or attitude probably too conservative or too
yeah
yeah
well what
about professionally
i'm out in the uh phoenix so the suns are starting to look pretty descent
but i think
yeah
yeah
i used to live out there
and uh seems like they
well tarpley just got pulled over again
who who else do they got on the team
now i haven't
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
how's he doing this year
how about the guy from north carolina
perkins perkins
that's right
that's right
he is a [finesse] player
he was good
[dantely] didn't they get [dantely] i think that was involved with the perkins trade to tell you the truth
no no no no no no it was what is his name [mcguire] that was [mcguire] yeah
yeah
i don't understand that
i thought that he was always a good player
are they over five hundred
uh_huh
yeah
i think the suns are
yes
well they're
i don't think it was last year the year before they were doing really good
and i think they had an off year last year
did you say white or black
chambers yeah
he's the big guy here
i haven't been i don't follow basketball real close
but
yeah
the big ten didn't fair too
well in the tournament
i'm i'm from the midwest
so
yeah
i kind of watch you know see what's happening
but uh what's that
well no basketball is you know michigan won it last year
yeah
indiana and michigan
uh and uh iowa and ohio state ohio state was ranked like number two most of the year
michigan won the n c a a last year
and you know there's also about six teams that go to the tournaments uh from the big ten
it's it's
they are really good in all the sports they actually in the last few years um football
you know looks like it has gone down a little bit
so
and uh
yeah
we'll see
[alrighty] well have a good one
okay
bye bye
what basketball team
are you
most familiar with
yeah
where'd you move from
uh_huh
well yeah
the mavericks uh have done fairly well in the past
but doesn't look like they're going to do too good this year
oh i kind of follow it a little bit
i'm not a great fan of it
but uh you know i read a little bit about it and follow it on the radio and everything
but uh i was glad to see them get rid of that guy
tarpley
although by far the best player they've ever had i guess
yeah
it did it did
and and they had to do
they had to get rid of him
but i couldn't believe they'd given him a contract like they had where that they couldn't get rid of him
i guess they felt like that was enough you know uh if that you know if if they had to get out of it
they could and they wouldn't want out of it unless he did something wrong
if he did that well
that'd cancel the contract
i guess
yeah
yes
that's right
he'd be worth it
yeah
he'd be worth it
but
oh they got blasted didn't they
yeah
that was unbelievable
i i hadn't seen that score i just heard somebody talking about they'd gotten beat real bad
and uh but i think they did better last night though didn't they
yeah
so that was a good game
i guess
i i really don't follow them that closely
although there was a good article today in the in the sunday magazine about uh brad davis
did you read that
course
well it just
uh this is going to be his last year
but it just you know he just been
it's amazing that he's one of the original mavericks you know still playing
he is the only original maverick yeah
he started out with them when they started and has made just to make the team every year
so so
and you know you don't you don't make the team if you're not any good
so he's done
well six hundred thousand a year
uh_huh
and he's worth it
huh
no
i don't see how that
no
they won't even
they won't even come close to the playoffs
i don't think
yeah
yeah
that's a big stretch probably yeah
and uh but boy they you know they've had some darn good teams in the past
i guess that's why it's so hard to swallow you know right off the bat they started doing well
yeah
it makes you
they've had some coach problems over the years uh [motta] was probably the best they've ever had
or ever will have
but he i don't know
he just he was such a hot head that he just quit one time
and man once he made up his mind to do something like that
he gone he don't change his mind
but he was by far i think the best coach they ever had
but he couldn't get along with [aguilar] i mean aguirre yeah aguirre and uh he he had a hot temper
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
probably yeah
at least two years ago or longer
but they did they used to have some darned good teams
but uh i've always been a
and i don't follow basketball that closely
but i've always been a celtics fan because i love to watch larry bird play
always you can always count on playing a good brand of basketball and of course so can so
can you depend on the lakers for doing that
but i don't know
i just always liked ole ole bird he just can do things that i don't think humans are supposed to be able to do with a basketball
him and magic johnson and ole jordan but we'll have to keep our fingers crossed i guess for the ole mavericks
well
and they got a they got a good owner i mean he's willing to spend the bucks to get what they need
so i think it's just a just a matter of time until they
it may take them a couple of years
uh_huh
yeah
and that that's
yeah
that's just too old for a basketball team
kathy
you know i was thinking about basketball teams and uh the funny thing is that when i was in college at b y u
i followed the school team
and uh and then when i graduated i mean and got married and everything
i really kind of lost interest in following teams
have you been following any
oh no
i know they are always have uh i mean i can't believe the amount of money that the players make
in the first place
and i uh i mean i know that they have a short uh career
and everything
that's true
it is really a lot
but uh my sister always gets uh season tickets to the utah jazz
and uh so she watches their games a lot and everything
but i don't believe we have ever been involved with any teams that you know makes it to the playoffs
too much
uh_huh
you did
well i was at b y u
when they made it to the playoffs
i think they played notre dame or something uh for the big game
i can't remember now that was so it seems like it was [eons] ago
it was like ten years ago
i think
and uh uh
isn't that the one that was like the star player with danny [ange] i think he started playing for the boston celtics after that
and uh and uh there was another the center it has been so long
i can't think of anyone's name
but uh i i was there that year
and enjoyed that game
and uh but mostly like i say i haven't been following the team and don't know who's got what record
i haven't played in uh i broke my knee cap but i did play in high school i was on a high school girls' team
well i went to missouri
and i went and i played for a [parkney] high school in [springfield] missouri
and i played uh a forward
and uh i enjoyed that then
and it's
i always loved sports
do you play for your ward
well that is a problem
uh_huh
no
well i was thinking about my own personal basketball experiences as opposed to professional
you know i had rather play than watch any thing
and uh so i you know like i uh
well i uh i should [sampson] do you remember him and because he came to houston when i lived there
and uh to play for the houston team
and he was really i thought a bad sport
and uh and i haven't followed like i say
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that is really true
but a
well don't want to spend so much of my time uh [memorizing] statistics
and uh keeping you know being wrapped up in a team and caring whether they win or lose in the sense that
it makes a big difference in my life
i just don't have that kind of time
uh_huh
that's true
and you know i get i have interest in the games
but i am satisfied to watch a score in the newspaper or on you know the sports news report
or something
right
rather than just like you say watch clips from the game
no
i
my both my children are little they are just in kindergarten and first grade
so no
they don't play
and uh my husband loves baseball
which i don't really prefer to uh
so we haven't uh had don't get into basketball too much
but anyway
now if i can remember what they were called uh
no
i don't think so
no
it was the astros the astros were the baseball team
and the oilers
rockets
yes
that is it the rockets
oh do you
uh_huh
yeah
it's been around for a long time hasn't it
yeah
who's the coach's name
yeah
that sounds familiar
yeah
and with pro ball
you mean
who will the [opponents]
well why
that doesn't make sense
does it
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
but to me
i'd want to quit
oh that just shows how much he gets paid anyway
huh
really
where are you all living now
denison
yeah
do you ever watch the mavericks
yeah
huh
yeah
like who
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
he's good too
i used to watch basketball
in fact of of the pro sports
i guess it's my favorite it's just that i haven't watched many sports this year or in the past several years
how come
the uh academic requirements
uh_huh
huh
four out of five hurts four out of five hurts huh
so well no wonder they're out of it
i said no wonder they're out of it
uh_huh
so they'll be back
uh_huh
well do you agree with that requirement that they meet those uh academic uh_huh
well i didn't realize it could vary from state to
state or to
huh
how does that coach feel about that
uh_huh
huh
on national t v
yeah
it's all politics
yeah
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh for heaven's sake
what a [cheapskate] yeah
oh
his elementary school wife
oh really
well she might have been the cause of it
yeah
yeah
oh
yeah
yeah
i can imagine
especially the kids that were buying them
yeah
huh well that [almighty] dollar
uh_huh
yeah
it is
well i think we met our time limit
well probably the one that plays here
the mavericks uh they're not doing the greatest that i've seen them play before
but uh well they're doing okay
no
no
i i think without uh roy tarpley they're he he added something to the team
but uh i think they need to let him go maybe
he doesn't seem to course i have a lot of players that i think are really super
i think isaiah thomas is just great
and uh i think uh he he does really
well i like to watch him play he just has a really good moves and uh i don't know
i i guess uh uh i guess i like to watch the [mailman] play for the the utah team
uh when he delivers he does
okay
and uh uh i can't think of the name of the team that has larry bird on it
oh the celtics
i like to watch them play the whole team i like their whole team
yeah
uh_huh
i you know like i said i like isaiah thomas
but i think sometimes that uh that uh he he sometimes ends up being a one man team
uh whereas the celtics like you said they play more as a team
uh
yeah
i like michael jordan a lot too
he's really good uh danny [ainge] i like danny [ainge] okay
well well i guess because he played at at my alma mater
so i i kind of watch him every now and again
yeah
yeah
and he played really
well when he was there
so
uh it's it's hard to name him with some of the very top players i think sometimes
but i'm glad he's playing in the in the pros
you just wondered why i named him
portland uh_huh
right now
yeah
they
yeah
i i liked when he uh he was playing with celtics
and then he traded to portland
and uh it was a good trade
so
uh
i don't remember i really don't
it seems like he went straight there you know because i don't remember him playing for another team other than straight through
yeah
so what's your favorite team
do you have a favorite team
yeah
uh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
i watched uh well i didn't watch them
but i i saw in the newspaper and on the news the playoff teams and and without larry bird and and michael jordan when they got injured you know it was interesting
i think then how their teams did
uh how it brought the scoring down a little bit
but their teams stayed relatively together
you know
and so you know i think sometimes it's interesting
we we really watch the big name players and but they have to have a solid team underneath or else they really don't don't go anywhere
so i i think that's kind of the mavericks problem
they have okay players
but sometimes the [strongness] of the team isn't together
you know every once in a while they click during a a game
and then it works for them
but then it's just not always there
so i i guess that's
yeah
english did okay
he did okay
but uh
oh
i think [adubato] as the coach of their team uh has done a lot for them
i think he he's uh brought some strength to that team uh uh he he's really trying hard
he's a nice guy
i like him as the coach of the mavericks so i don't i don't know a lot of coaches in the in the n b a though
yeah
that's true
yeah
that's true
yeah
i think they're i think they'll let him go
anyway i i uh i like basketball
it's a fun sport i i like to watch it
i like to uh i guess i like it because of of the [quickness] of it uh
and and i like it because it takes the players have to be you know it's not a game where you can just not practice
i mean they have to be on the top of their game to be in the n b a
i think
yeah
or else
yeah
yeah
i don't watch much of that i watch our town plano
uh plano east is where my children will go i have an eleven year old son
and he plays basketball and my my husband coaches his team
and uh they uh i think they were one off one loss to the playoff and uh i like to watch our plano east senior high boys play
they are they did really well
so yeah
i like yeah i do like the the games
not only basketball
but the other ones too that the high schools play
i keep up with that
so
yeah
yeah
yeah
well you know what i think is you know like [spud] [webb] i mean you can really even if you're short like that you know in basketball today they get these huge tall players that that just you know if you want to do it bad enough i think it's a possibility in anybody's life
he's he really goes for it
and he's a good little player
so i
so i think if if any of these boys want to do it
they really can
if that's really their dream
so takes work though
that's the big yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i just think that basketball's a fun game
and i guess i still have to stick with the mavericks i guess as far as
what are they called
jazz
oh
never heard of them
oh
oh yeah
uh_huh
so that's good
yeah
well maybe we'll hear of them more often
well i guess what we have here is the mavericks is that right
basketball
what is what is our dallas basketball
i'm not really sure
one is soccer
one is basketball
the mavericks must be basketball
and uh my daughter plays basketball you wouldn't know it would you from this conversation
i'm familiar with the teddy bears
and they're my favorite
well now she's twelve
so
but she's been playing basketball for four or five years on a little team called teddy bears and that's been fun
so now she just made her middle school team
so that's
and they've won so far
that's good
but uh
yes
she likes it a lot
yeah
she really does
and the lakers i guess is my favorite as far as as anything i know about basketball
yeah
because i my boyfriend's in california
so i'm going to have to look at lakers this year
a lot
so i guess
i'll get used to it
i learned a lot about football so far
so
uh i guess because her friends signed up
and she wanted to sign up
she [twirls] and she's she's been real real involved in that
so we haven't had time for soccer
which is the most important thing around here pretty
i mean
all the little kids play soccer
they even have like a preschool soccer team
it's big in texas
and maybe all over
now i don't know
but uh it's very big here
but we didn't have that time
and so i did let her play basketball and i like it because it's indoors
yeah
i like indoor things
so
yeah
yeah
well she's pretty fast
she's not real big
but she's real fast
and so uh
yeah
yeah
but oh in the beginning you know they couldn't even make the basket
and they were allowed to stand halfway forward to
take solid shots and they couldn't even get the ball that high
because they were so little
and not strong enough
and then uh her last game just before the whistle blew they had two seconds left
she threw the ball from center court
and it went right into the basket
so she was the hero
after all those years of trying
to get that ball up in that basket
so so that was pretty fun to see the improvement
and her coach was behind us in the bleachers
but from the other team
and he said christmas came early this year
so
yeah
no
my son never played
uh basketball
he's he's grown and he he's in the band and he swam some
mostly he was a student
so
yeah
he's a national merit student
and he speaks five languages and all that
so
he wasn't much into sports
he did play baseball for a while
and he
liked that
but uh he didn't he didn't play basketball at all
i did i played basketball in high school i loved it
that
and volleyball
uh_huh
yeah
i love it
i think it's my favorite
and it's my favorite to watch
and when i was in high school i was a twirler and so i always enjoyed that
and [cheerleading] you know we
got to do it indoors
so i always liked the basketball games better than the football games
because you weren't out in the cold
well yeah
and it's easier to follow
if the ball goes in
they get two points
football everybody falls on top of each other and it's real difficult to say
exactly what went wrong you know for me
anyway
oh really
oh my gosh
uh_huh
do do they do they traditionally have a good team or is this sort of an unusually huh
huh
yeah
see and we it's they're actually in the university of texas system
and i don't i don't even know anything about them
i'm here in austin
we have uh u t austin
right
which is which is just generally go to the university of texas right
and the the longhorns and uh actually i don't know
right now longhorns aren't having quite the year that they had hoped uh they they had a a star forward that that was [disqualified]
because of of something i guess since he was leaving his junior college day some supporter gave him a car or something
and uh
yeah
it sure did
because they were they had a real good start
and then and then and then ended up you know they they're they're holding on
but it's not it's not going to be a a season like they had last year when they went to the n c a a
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
no
it something that happened outside of that you know and and it happened as as part of his junior college career
but
no
but they pulled him
out of the out of the lineup
you know
and it was something
he he reported himself
or
i mean they
it wasn't a
and and the n c a a uh immediately suspended him
and then and then actually u t on his [behalf] filed a an [injunction] in the court system to allow him to continue to play which worked for a few games and then they then they pulled him in
so
yeah
but they've been having uh i mean last year they had a real good team they had they had a new coach tom [penders] come in
um about i guess about three years ago
and and the program had been in a long a long decline you know for for years
they i guess back when abe [lemons] was here they built quite a quite a tradition
and then it it kind of went downhill for for a couple of coaches and [penders] has done a good job of getting it back on its feet and doing some you know playing some good basketball
but
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
i don't know
yeah
the women's program is quite interesting down here the the women's program here in in austin uh actually for a while
it was was drawing bigger crowds than the men's program
if you can imagine that
they
but they you know they just have have traditionally been a dominant a dominant basketball team
i mean they've they've always been in the top top eight in the country
um
and actually had a couple of years that they haven't been quite as strong but but uh the the southwestern conference the they've been undefeated in the they were no
they aren't now
but they had been undefeated in the southwestern conference for something like a five year streak or something
and so it is they've they've that's that's quite a tradition here in texas
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well so you don't know too much about the dallas mavericks this
no
they are uh only just a slightly a bit better than uh the other expansion teams
they're they're they're a team in disarray right now
actually i used to
and i gave it up this year
because i thought well roy tarpley wasn't going to make it
and sure enough about a week after i decided not to buy my ticket he went down with his uh his drug problems
and uh boy the team just is going into a [tailspin] since then
yeah
you're kidding
how did you manage that
uh_huh
sound sounds like a real game huh
well he must he must be a pretty big guy
jeez
well it's it's nice to see those uh know those kind of guys when they get paid all those big bucks to uh you know to be halfway friendly
but i know what you mean about talking about being big i mean that's when i was in high school
i i went to a a cleveland cavaliers game
i'm from ohio and a friend of mine runs or used to run the clock down on the floor so he'd let me get down on the floor at half time
and i stood by these guys as they all walked out and and gee whiz
they're just [monsters] i mean seven foot doesn't sound that tall
but when you stand next to one
it is real tall
so
you you don't get down to uh basketball games very often then
uh_huh
wow
so you didn't watch the all star game uh yesterday
yeah
i i got out the weather was so nice here that i got out and didn't didn't see any of it
well that's uh you talking about the olympics now
yeah
summer olympics is his next thing
well i really you know it's it's his choice to play
but there's a lot of other people you know the other team's choice not not to play against him
i think he's going to find a a lot of people just say well heck i'm not going to you know i'm not going to mess with that
are you serious
how how can they do that if he hasn't played the whole season
oh
unless they
yeah
unless they're just carrying a one odd guy instead
of carrying the ten or eleven that they carry
just carry one less
well i you know i didn't watch the game
but a friend of mine was telling me that he you know he played a lot
but he he played then he'd sit down then he'd play
and he'd sit down
it wasn't like he was out there for twenty or thirty minutes at a at a go
yeah
once once uh he starts losing that weight and can't keep it on you know he'll have to slow down and not not do that kind of stuff
that that's got to be awful awful tough on his [bod] oh jeez
they they are
they need players
and and they need a front office that that can judge players we've traded away so many good players in the past five years and got nothing for them and drafted so many bad players and you know they haven't turned out it's uh it's very frustrating
we we had one year we had two first round picks
and we picked uh a guy by the name of bill [wittington] uh who's a seven foot center a white guy
and [uvay] [blob] another seven foot white center
and they're both okay
but i think both of them are playing in the italy now
and they you know they traded away mark aguirre and got nothing for him
i mean he had to go
but they
okay  
ellen what kind of a car do you think you're going to buy  
yeah  
oh you do want a lot of that stuff  
what kind of uh things are you going to consider  
you know what uh you said something about the about the  
well what do you call them  
you said amenities   that they have  
but what about um their reputation of the company or the price  
it is for me  
other people   don't seem to have the same problem  
yeah  
yeah  
well um the last car we bought was american because of because of that reason  
but have not been entirely happy with uh several things about the car  
it doesn't seem like the quality is quite as high as i expected it to be  
because several things minor things sort of  
but still they cost us money um that we didn't feel like we should have had to pay on a car that that was that new   you know  
we bought the car new  
and after  
um well well well under two years we had to replace the clutch  
and they just said well you know [clutches] are disposable  
and i said since when  
brake pads are disposable   you know  
we know that  
but i never thought a clutch was disposable  
yeah  
so that was that was kind of a shock  
yeah  
you know the less actually the less you spend on a car it seems like luxury cars  
they're called luxury cars even though they're much more expensive like like uh uh a mercedes [benz]  
they don't have the history of breaking down or things like that that would go wrong would definitely not be considered disposable  
you would never think of having to replace the clutch in a mercedes   especially not after two years  
really  
oh i don't know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what kind of  
what brand of car are you thinking about buying  
or like what things are you looking at  
uh_huh  
how come  
i've been kind of um  
i guess the commercials are getting to me the toyota commercials  
and i know that a lot of people i've i've known that have had toyotas have been just extremely happy with them that hardly had any problems at all  
i think they have a really good uh quality  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they seem to be really durable  
so i don't know  
i'm i'm not ready to buy a new car yet  
but i don't know if if the next time i'm going to try to to stay with buying something american or if i'm going to go for a little more what i would consider to be a long term investment  
oh it's easy to get gas mileage in this car  
it gets excellent gas mileage  
uh_huh  
i think so  
all righty  
thanks  
bye bye  
well as a matter of fact i was thinking about that the other day  
and uh i really don't know the answer  
uh i would sort of like to uh think about something in the way of uh uh sort of a sporty car but not any not you know a luxury type sporty one  
but um something that still has a lots of amenities and you know [gadgets] and things  
yeah  
well yeah  
i like i like some of those things  
they come in really handy  
amenities  
yeah  
well of course i guess uh price is always the big consideration  
but  
yeah  
well that's that's a big one in my book  
but uh um i have preferences for uh for some uh makers over others um  
and i would sort of like to buy american  
but you know i'm not so totally hung up on that that i wouldn't buy something else  
how about you  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i wouldn't have thought so either  
oh  
yeah  
i i guess there's a lot to to think about when you're trying to make that decision  
right  
no  
but then  
no  
but on the other hand i guess too uh whenever you do have to have some major work done on one of those it costs a fortune  
yeah  
i've uh worked with a couple of people who have owned uh various years uh   mercedes  
and even though they do a lot of the work [themself] then just buying the parts and everything is is pretty expensive  
but for them it's it's sort of a hobby too   to own them  
well i haven't really gotten that far with it um  
i've always sort of liked general motors   a little bit better than some of the others  
but uh-oh i guess i really don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
that  
i think that's  
uh_huh  
my uh daughter has owned two different ones  
and uh you know we've had some work done on them  
but it's not too bad  
and the reason  
one of the reasons we um bought the first one was because a friend of ours had a toyota that he just really drove for years and years and years  
and he lived way out in the country  
so he put a lot of miles on it  
and you knew it had had been through a whole lot  
and yet you know it it held up pretty doggone good  
so   i thought they would  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
and i guess you know you always have to think about things like your gas mileage and stuff like that you know  
you  
yeah  
yeah  
that's one of the big throwing cards for some of the foreign ones  
well we talked long enough  
okay  
well enjoyed it  
bye bye  
okay  
so what kind of car are you thinking about getting  
well when you decide to  
uh_huh  
so you like the ford  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's the  
this  
the car i had before this one was a thunderbird   as a matter of fact  
and uh i loved it  
i really did  
but uh um i finally decided to go check out what the uh what the uh foreign cars were  
so i bought myself a a a nissan   a two forty s x  
but even though i love the car i've got now i think my next car will probably be american again   because if i can at all do it i'd like to stay american  
i always have up until now  
i just for one time decided to go outside  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well [ford's] done a real good job in the last uh say ten years   or at least the last five to six years so of really turning around their um quality i think um  
uh_huh  
um  
oh yeah  
those were not good cars  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you know the only thing i'm looking   at right now um  
i just i just bought you know the nissan that i've got about uh say nine months ago  
i guess it was  
so the only thing that that would get me to change cars right now would be if  
see at the moment i'm single  
and if i were to get married and have a family that would have to have something to do with it  
but uh i don't have any plans for probably another two three years of even looking you know  
uh cars are too expensive right now to uh   to even think about buying new cars every couple of years you know  
it's  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's uh  
i went to a a car show down here about uh about two weeks ago  
and um you know of course they had the normal the ford the the chevrolet that stuff  
but then you started looking at the uh uh  
they had ferrari there they had uh b m w and all these other kinds of cars  
and ferrari didn't even let you near the car  
i mean they were  
that's how expensive they were  
and then you saw uh hundred thousand dollar cars  
you saw eighty thousand dollar cars  
and even even though i i i do enjoy cars i enjoy um driving them i enjoy uh riding in them and everything but i can't see buying or paying more for a car than i would for a house you know  
that doesn't seem likely  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think so  
that's happened to me once  
so uh  
yeah  
like uh i think the one time i did it was on the mid the mid east the crisis out there  
that was had a great conversation  
but uh then they came off and told us we couldn't do it any more  
so  
yeah  
you too  
bye bye  
well none at the moment  
no  
no  
no  
i currently drive a a ford taurus  
and i would i would imagine that if i change or if i get another car a new car i will go with the taurus or something similar uh in that regard  
absolutely  
i have had it for about two years now  
and it's uh it's everything it's supposed to be  
uh i haven't had a minutes trouble with it  
and uh the only thing i have against it in that's it's a taurus  
but i still feel a little even after two years i still feel uncomfortable driving it because i had a honda before that  
and so it's a little bit larger  
but that's the only the only difference that i see really  
but i would  
my my criteria would be at the moment it would be uh american uh personally  

uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well my wife drives a still has a a honda   accord  
and it's a very it's an excellent automobile   and uh but you know price and so forth  
i'm not a real car fan  
so i i i do not uh opt for uh something that would be you know expensive   you know  
i want i want something that's serviceable serviceable something that i can use  
and uh and i  
and with the taurus  
i have a taurus uh l x  
and it's you know  
you're talking when you think about price it's several thousand dollars lower than the comparable honda or nissan or something along those lines  
and as i said as far i'm concerned it it has been extremely uh uh serviceable and everything i wanted  
uh_huh  
oh i think so too  
now i you know  
in travel and renting automobiles   uh in  
i've driven you know chevrolet automobiles and so and dodge  
and i  
if it's chevrolet i just will not touch it  
uh i had a chevrolet before i bought my taurus  
i purchased a a chevy um [citation]  
and uh i was ready to get rid of it two months after i bought it  
and uh so i i shopped around  
and i would i probably if i had thought i uh wanted to pay the amount of money i probably would have gone with uh uh an accord   or even a a civic or something comparable from nissan   or toyota  
and uh but it was just  
i had i have a friend who uh has a uh an auto shop  
and he purchased one of the first [sables] that was uh manufactured for his wife a [sable] station wagon  
and he just absolutely swore by it  
and it was upon his recommendation and so forth for you know comparable [comparably] equipped you know with cruise control and air conditioning and a m f m radio and all these other things  
uh it was just  
there was no there was no comparison uh  
the only thing that i find you know if i would have anything against it is that it still has that soft american ride  
uh not uh  
that's about the only thing i find you know [disadvantageous] to it  
but my criteria is simply something that looks good something that's serviceable  
and i you know i drive around a lot  
but uh and it's you know it's very comfortable on the highway  
i can drive for you know ten hours or so and not really be tired in any way  
but those are my criteria  
and i i probably in another six months to a year or something will probably start looking around again  
and if there's something out there that uh is comparable to what i have now i'll go ahead and get it  
uh_huh  
i  
yeah  
in our parking lots uh two or three days ago i saw one of the new honda sports cars  
uh i i can't remember what the name is  
it's the thirty five or forty thousand dollar one whatever it is  
and it looked it resembled a [mazaratti]   very very closely  
and it's an absolutely beautiful automobile   and well appointed and so forth  
but to pay that much money for an automobile uh is just  
i can't i can't conceive of doing that  
uh_huh  
that's true well  
the difference there is too uh is between us is that i am not really crazy about driving  
i never have been since you know my parents had to force me to get my driver's license when i was young   when i was sixteen  
so i've never really cared  
now what i was you know  
before i was married and before i went to graduate school i used to do little sports car racing  
i never it was never my own car  
it was always someone else's  
and that sort of thing i enjoy  
but to go out and drive uh never has really been had any appeal to me   in that regard  
so well i guess we've discussed that enough  
don't you think  
we won't we don't we won't get the recorder or the uh system to shut us off uh tonight  
that's happened to me almost every time i've  
well it's very easy when you get a you get on a topic that you know you enjoy  
oh yeah  
well i was talking to a lady last evening  
and we were talking about fishing  
and uh we were cut off well  
we were told to quit  
okay  
well you have a pleasant evening  
take care  
good bye  
oh okay  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
you ready  
okay  
well it won't be too much longer because my husband and i are both going to retire  
and when we retire we're going to buy us a you know a new one and and get rid of the two that we have right now  
i i don't know  
we're either going to buy a pick up  
or we're going to buy a van  
or we're going to buy an economy car  
how do you like that  
uh yeah  
yeah  
it sure does  
i really would like to have something like that  
and i'm hoping that by you know  
that's like right now  
my husband would like for me to buy another vehicle right now  
but i keep saying lets put it off lets put it off because i'm hoping they'll get so many better features  
well just like that air bag  
i think that thing is fantastic  
because i've seen some of the you know like the head on [collision] type things   when they had it and people walk away from it  
we had one here  
i guess it was about three weeks ago  
and the people walked away from the wreck   with no scratches nothing you know a few [bruises]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you got it  
i   i tell you what  
i would not i would not buy a car that had the seat belt where it was hooked under the door  
well you know what the average person  
would you ever have thought of that  
i mean now  
you probably wouldn't have  
right  
because you always think  
i mean i don't know  
maybe you don't  
but just like me i always think well you know these things must be safe  
but that's just like  
i don't know if you've heard about it a few years ago they said you know before they had the like the shoulder strap thing where it was just like a seat belt that goes across your waist  
all these people were  
and and it it was on one of those kind of shows like twenty twenty  
these people were like [paralyzed]  
and because it threw them forward  
but they were hooked at the waist  
and so it like you know did something to their [spinal] cord  
then they were like [paraplegics]  
right  
yeah  
well tell me about your van  
do you like it  
uh_huh  
huh the reason that we're thinking about something like that we took a trip in my brother in law and sister in laws to florida  
and like i said i mean we're not that old  
but my husband works for the state  
and after a certain amount of years you can retire  
and when he [retires] i'm retiring  
well as soon as i get my quarters in i'm   retiring period  
that's it  
you know no more  
as though  
uh_huh  
and we wanted to travel  
well that was really nice traveling  
but you know i like to know more i mean hear about more people that have things like that you know  
and see what they think of them  
the different kinds  
because i've only ridden in the one  
that's it  
uh shoot  
i can't even think of the name of it now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well now this one that we went in  
it did  
baby what kind of van was that that we went to florida in  
ford  
a what  
ford  
a ford  
ford what  
you remember  
he was trying to think of what the name of it was  
this was a big one  
i mean it was a big one  
it has the front and the back and you know it has the   uh back seat let down into a double i mean a queen size bed  
and then it had the two [swivels] in the middle and then the two [swivel] chairs on the front  
and i mean it was fantastic  
and it got good gas mileage  
but i don't know  
i don't really i don't  
i want something i can drive too you know  
and i was scared to drive that big van  
well do you does yours have that this one had it where you know you would see something coming in the rear view mirror i mean not the rear those little side mirror things  
and it would look like it was further back than it was  
yeah  
does yours do that too  
oh i was wondering if all vans did that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well see that's the reason we couldn't make really make them  
at first we were going to get a pick up truck with a camper on the back of it   of it  
but then that gas mileage was just atrocious  
i mean it's   unreal  
it's it just practically don't get any  
yeah  
and then uh he talked about a van  
and i said well you know i don't know i don't know how the gas is on most of these  
and another thing was  
that's the reason i said you know there was such a big difference you know in a little economy car  
but i said   maybe we might have to get us an economy car to pull along   when we went somewhere  
but really and truly the safety features  
but i wouldn't get one that  
if it had the seat belts on the door now   i wouldn't get it  
period  
oh that would be good  
oh i think so too  
i don't think they should do away with the seat belts now  
i'm  
but i think you need the shoulder thing  
i think you need the thing around your waist  
but i think you need that bag to pop out too  
you know because i know so many people here that have been killed in head on [collisions] where maybe if they had had that that   air bag they may still be walking around  
but uh i think it's fantastic  
i wish they required it in everything  
every new car that came out i wish they would require it in it  
yeah  
well no because what they would do is that's what they're going to plan on you know  
they would have to do it  
the insurance company would have to do the same thing  
they're given like a ten year time limit   where  
okay  
these cars i guess they figure all the old cars will be off the roads or something by the in ten years  
and then you know if you didn't have a car that had one then your insurance would go up enormously  
oh that's okay  
okay  
well you you too  
all right  
bye bye  
uh no  
i think that maybe the the [automation] people that are   very [discrete] or not [discrete] electronic devices  
so and did he is he the one that got you connected with us  
okay  
it's a lot of fun  
you want to punch the button and go  
[yip]  
well are you going to buy a car soon  
and what are you going to buy  
well have you been listening to [iacocca's] arguments that uh that chrysler products are the only ones that that all have air bags  
does that make a difference to you  
yeah  
like what  
yeah  
that's  
did you see the uh  
i don't know if it was twenty twenty last thursday or friday night on on seat belts  
did that scare you a little bit   with the lady being thrown out   and run over  
that really  
i i guess i  
that that a little more than scared me  
that irritated me uh  
that  
because it it it surely didn't come as a surprise that that if the door came open the lady would fall out  
i mean and  
uh  
no  
probably well  
i might  
the problem is i'm really into cars  
and so it's not a uh  
for me it's it's a real it's a real consideration uh uh  
and and uh the  
but no  
i probably wouldn't have even though i'm really quite into cars  
it's   it's probably my main hobby  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you know road and track had a had some articles on  
and particularly with with back seat uh with some where kids were were sitting in the back seat with seat belts on  
and they were thrown forward into the front seat  
and there was enough stretching the combination of stretching the spine to uh i mean the serious injury even though they were they were still locked in the  
they were forced to go  
so really if your sitting in the back seat your better off not not to have your seat belt on if it's just a seat belt  
we have a van that uh just has seat belts in the back doesn't have a shoulder [harness]  
i have an arrow star van  
we really do  
uh it's it's a mini van  
we've had it  
goodness in may will be five years  
and uh they replace the engine at sixty thousand under extended warranty  
and the transmission was replaced  
but they really are nifty uh  
the mini van it's  
actually we had a station wagon before  
and it's a foot or two shorter than a  
we had a regular size station wagon  
and it really uh  
we like it  
it the  
interestingly enough one of the features we like are the electric locks  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well but the  
did you   did you go to florida in a van  
yeah  
yeah  
what what kind was it  
what what was remarkable this van even with the  
we have two kids  
and we went to disney world  
uh actually i grew up in alabama  
and i went to see my mother  
and then went on down to disney world  
and it got better than i think twenty two twenty three miles a gallon  
and this was with the air conditioner on and and you know   four people with with luggage  
and uh course this  
grant it  
that's you know it's been four years ago  
but it's remarkable that the that the bigger vans uh they're uh  
my boss just bought a a pick up truck  
and uh he only gets seventeen miles a gallon  
but it it has a big engine  
and it it pulls a boat and stuff  
but it's and it it's got the seats  
that and the other thing that is interesting is it has uh rear air conditioning  
and that that makes a lot of difference in those of us that live in warm climates  
well the big you know the big vans are all   real nice  
yeah  
oh those are  
yeah  
yeah  
all right  
uh_huh  
well   well the mini that  
you'd be surprised if if you drive a one of the the mini vans uh  
more or less alike the the uh chevrolet  
and uh well of course oldsmobile has got one  
and chryslers got one  
but they drive remarkably like cars  
yeah  
yeah  
but the little thing etched in it  
say objects are are closer than they appear or something  
yeah  
well you you can you can uh install those mirrors  
we've got the big side mirrors which are really nice  
i don't know if you've well if you've driven a pick up truck you know  
these are these uh mirrors must be six inches across not nearly a foot high  
and they're really nice uh  
got them on both sides  
actually they they fold so when you get in tight situations you can fold them back  
but they're  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well they have got some of the newer ones they you know with the [aerodynamic] features  
you can get pretty pretty decent gas mileage  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
ford now announced i think in ninety two they're going to put uh air bags in their in their vans  
so uh and i think i i believe safety  
i i i i really do believe in this stuff uh  
and i i think it can go  
i'm not  
the air bags are a good deal  
but uh surprisingly uh they're uh  
you really need to do  
you need a combination of both the air bags and the uh   and the seat belts  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it would be that would do to our insurance rates you know if if uh if the insurance companies says it says we're not going to pay you know a claim if if the car doesn't have uh air bags  
would be interesting wouldn't it  
uh that wouldn't be fair  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i've got to go  
my son's in a performance tonight  
i have to leave   in a couple of minutes  
uh i think we've probably spent a reasonable amount of time  
it was good talking to you  
okay  
good night  
okay  
so what kind of cars are you looking at  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
right  
that's a real good deal  
in fact my dad recently got a um a pontiac uh believe six thousand  
and he got a demo  
and it's been a real good car  
and it's it's like new  
and it only had had very very low mileage on it  
and so i think he got a real good deal  
of course they're fully loaded usually  
so it's i think it's a pretty good option  
are the uh oldsmobiles that you're looking at are they the demos  
or they used  
are they new  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and then the cadillac is is definitely a used car  
or  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
that's what i'm thinking about on my next car is do i want to get another brand new car because last two cars are brand new  
or do i look for a used car that's maybe two three years old that   but that's you know low mileage and in good shape  
but i just i kind of worry about getting a car that's that new with low mileage on it because you wonder why did the person that owned it want to get rid of it  
is it a lemon  
or   or is something wrong with it  
but   i guess that's a risk you have to take  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
about how much do they charge to do something like that  
do you know  
yeah  
that's not bad  
it'd be well worth it if you're considering buying a car   to find out  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's kind of hard for me to talk about buying cars because i just got mine paid off about a month ago  
and i  
yes  
i don't want to think about buying a car for a while  
i just want to enjoy not having any car payments for a while   and enjoy watching my savings account get larger and uh you know hang on to the one i've got for a few years because it's it's it's almost four years old  
but it's still in great shape  
i have a mazda r x seven  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i just about could really   because i think my car  
if i continue taking good care of it it's going to hold a pretty good resale value  
and uh if i consider going the used car route and save up some money i shouldn't have too much trouble at all  
could you hold on for just a moment  
okay  
i'm on a cordless phone  
and i was picking up uh some background noise  
so i just switched the channel up on it  
i didn't want to interfere with whatever they're trying to record  
anyway  
but uh i really i really enjoy the car i have now  
and i do want to hold onto it and and you know enjoy it while it's not having any mechanical problems whatsoever  
in fact it never has  
and uh it's been kind of nice  
and i surprisingly enough after four years i'm not tired of the car at all  
and   i want to hang on to it while it's still being a good car and while i'm not tired of it and while i'm single   and can handle a two [seater] for now   and get that out of my system  
because one of these days i'll be getting a six [seater] probably too  
so  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
oh no  
yeah  
right  
what kind of car is it  
uh_huh  
are you going to trade it in on this new one  
or  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so she's going to sell it rather than trade it in  
that's probably the best thing  
or maybe more than that as i've learned  
yeah  
when i bought my r x seven i uh best offer i got for my other car was twenty five hundred  
well i turned around and sold it myself for forty two hundred  
so  
you can do much better  
i'm glad you're you're taking care of it yourself  
i i think trading it in they just use that as additional  
they may give you supposedly a better deal on your new car you're buying  
but they just are going to give you that much less for your trade in  
what i think  
so  
but strangely enough the best i mean the best bargaining i had made with a dealer on my car was also the same place i got the best price   trade in  
but it's a place in arlington  
and i think maybe as you get outside the dallas area  
i kind of  
i bet you it's kind of what i decided  
well maybe because it's outside of dallas they are giving a little bit better prices  
plus i was going through that t i fleet discount program  
well it's before they had that  
i had gone over to texins  
and they had a little file where they said which dealers participated in the in the fleet program  
and what you could expect they said you know a five percent over cost   and then options at cost and everything  
so i figured out a price based on that  
but i i guess i got a pretty good deal because i went back to the town north mazda right off central   and offered them the same price as what i knew i was going to be able to get it for in arlington  
and they said there is no way you can get this car for that price especially if we add on the [equalizer]   and the cruise control  
he said you're going to get a car that's got flood damage or hail damage  
and they just laughed at me  
and i went the next morning to arlington  
and they gave it to me for that price  
and what's so funny  
they took the car they i knew they were going to pull it from town north because that's where the white one was  
and they had already told me we located one at town north  
so it was that same car  
yeah  
well unless you're selling car with hail damage and flood damage i got the car off your lot for that price  
oh i did  
and i laughed real hard when i took it in for the two thousand mile checkup  
and uh that they required you to do  
and i took it to town north  
and sure enough i saw that guy  
and he recognized me  
he said oh hi dana  
and he kind of looked down and saw that car  
and i'm sure he probably knew what was going on the very next day  
of course when the place in arlington went and took the car   because i told him there's a place in arlington that's going to give it to me for that price  
he said no they're not  
and the next day they pulled the white car and took it to arlington  
so i'm sure he knew  
so i loved it  
i sat there  
and i just had the biggest [grin] on my face  
it was kind of nice  
yeah  
good talking to you too don  
okay  
good luck in your car hunting  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
well we've uh we've we've test driven the oldsmobile delta eighty eight   and a cutlass supreme and a used cadillac about three or four years old   because uh i get married in a couple of weeks  
and i have two kids  
and my fiancee has two kids  
so we need a car that's big enough for six  
and so we went i guess it was two weekends ago we went uh car shopping   and looked around  
we found something interesting at crest oldsmobile cadillac up there on central expressway  
that uh in addition to getting a new car there they can get you a car that's new  
but it's been uh a demonstrator model   for two or three thousand dollars even cheaper than the best deal they can give you for a new car  
so they call this program cars  
and they come   with a new car warranty  
and it just seems to make sense to me to get the most car for your money to get something like that  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i think so too  
well the ones that we were test driving were the uh were the new ones   there  
uh_huh  
well now uh now they may be the demonstrator models that the sales [reps] drive around in  
yeah  
the guy said it'd been on the lot about thirty minutes  
he says it'll probably be gone in a done  
and it's probably gone by now  
those things go fast  
uh of course we're not we can't consider getting a brand new cadillac because those are twenty five to thirty thousand dollars  
but when they're three years old they're  
the price already drops in half  
so then it becomes uh more realistic  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
well you can reduce that risk by uh having the car checked out  
i mean you know if you're going to look at fifty different cars you don't want to do this  
but if you've narrowed it down to one or two   you can have the car uh uh checked at uh an independent service station   and have them go through it from top to bottom and tell you if they can find anything wrong because they don't have any financial interest in it  
and then you'll have a realistic [assessment] of what you're getting  
oh i'm thinking around twenty or twenty five dollars  
no  
huh_uh  
i would i would think so  
i would think so  
isn't that a good feeling  
that's right  
well what you can do is take your car payment and put it in the bank for three or four years  
and when you're ready to get another car just pay cash for it  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i i would think that's true  
sure  
right  
right  
that's fine  
that's right  
that's right  
well  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
eventually  
yeah  
the first two cars i ever bought well uh uh  
i've bought three cars  
and i've always bought them new  
the first car i kept for thirteen and a half years   and got a hundred and sixty one thousand out of it  
the second car i ever bought i drive to work now  
that just turned ten years old  
and i've got a hundred and twenty two thousand miles on that  
so that that's kind of in the way i've done things is to get things that are new and then keep them forever  
but uh my car is using two quarts of oil a week now  
about about a quart every hundred miles  
so but uh it runs fine  
all you  
it's just very [thirsty]  
if i just keep the oil in it seems to be okay  
but you know that's a sign that i'm going to have to do something sooner or later  
it's a a buick century  
no  
my fiance is selling uh a nineteen seventy eight cutlass supreme that she has  
it's actually   in better condition than my car  
and so she's going to get some money for that and take some money from the bank and then try to make as much down payment as possible   to keep the monthly payment low  
yeah  
you lose four to six hundred dollars a trade in  
oh really  
oh there you go  
well that's fact  
i think you're right  
interesting  
okay  
did did you use it at the car shop place  
oh okay  
that's right  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's good  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
is that right  
my gosh  
and you laughed all the way to the bank  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
such a deal  
i'll bet you did  
well dana it's been really interesting  
i appreciate talking with you  
okay  
have a good evening  
thank you much  
bye bye  
okay  
what kind of car are you thinking about buying next  
what year  
oh okay  
well i have a ninety honda civic  
and i'm ready to get rid of it  
actually  
no  
uh well i i had an eighty eight that i really liked  
and it got wrecked  
and so i bought a ninety um because i i really liked my eighty eight  
and i've had a lot of problems with this one  
so  
well you  
it's it's kind of funny um  
i know a lot  
oh  
yeah  
it's it's true  
it's definitely true because  
yeah  
well honda does too that's why i was really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
no  
not at all  
oh i i definitely agree with you there because i had uh uh uh ford t bird before i got my honda  
and it was the worst car i've ever owned  
and um that's why i mean i was so tickled with my honda  
it was just a wonderful car  
and then it got wrecked  
and you know i wouldn't even look at another car  
i just went and bought a honda i mean i didn't even i didn't look around or anything i just said that this is what i want  
and i really have had a lot of problems with it  
but i don't know  
well i'll probably hold on to it since it's still under warranty  
but in the first twelve months that i owned it it was in the shop an average of about once a month  
it was in the shop about twelve times the first twelve months  
yeah  
it was  
i was really disappointed because i was you know so [hyped] up on honda  
so  
yeah  
well i know this  
well it's this is going to sound really strange  
but i really like to have a mazda m p v van  
i really like those  
and i have kids  
so  
they're a lot  
i don't like the new style like of the toyota van   and the the new chevy [lumina] van  
i don't like those styles um the m p v is more of uh uh just uh i don't know what you normal  
i don't know how to explain more of an old fashioned type  
i i'm not sure how to explain it  
i mean it looks i guess kind of like uh the chevy [aerostar] or arrow  
no  
what  
astro astro i guess   is what it something like that  
but i used to really like the looks of the m p v because it looks more like a mini van rather than i think  
yeah  
i have a couple kids  
oh yeah  
definitely  
but i know that it's got to have a radio it's got to have air conditioning  
i'm sure you can uh relate to air conditioning   um living in arizona  
but and cruise control and tinted windows that's about it  
i mean it's got to have those things otherwise i don't care  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh really  
sports car  
i'd like to have a sports car too  
but it's not practical for me  
but  
yeah  
whoops  
there's some kind of problems  
hello  
are you still there  
this is  
something's wrong  
i don't know  
it sounds funny though doesn't it  
huh  
oh at least  
yeah  
i know   well new cars aren't cheap anyway  
but  
huh  
yeah  
we have we all have those kind of dreams too don't we  
what i'd really like to have  
yeah  
this is strange  
hello  
i think   something's wrong with this  
i hope it's recording  
yeah  
yeah  
you're right  
yeah  
oh those are nice  
yeah  
they're they're cute cars  
uh_huh  
oh  
wow i haven't seen those  
wow  
oh yeah  
definitely  
if it's a limited edition usually no matter what it is if it's a limited edition it's usually worth something later on  
yeah  
oh  
really  
now see i would have never figured that i would have figured that to be a lot more than that for something that's limited edition  
and well they weren't really that bad though when they were introduced were they  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
huh  
huh  
yeah  
it really is  
have you seen the new uh dodge [stealth]   the the   real nice one  
yeah  
yeah  
the mitsubishi is real nice looking too  
now those are nice  
right  
right  
the expensive ones   they have a cheaper model too that you can get for about seventeen thousand  
but those are pretty stripped  
and there's nothing  
there's really  
that one's just more for looks you know  
it doesn't have any really the performance that the expensive one does  
you know but i've seen one of those  
and it's not that great i mean because they really  
yeah  

like i mean they have um better  
it's not quite as nice for a little bit less  
yeah  
they're not really that bad  
but i don't know  
like i said it's it's still not practical for me  
i have a hard time looking at cars like that because i think now there's no way i can do that  
right  
oh really  
uh  
well what a what do we currently have  
i have a subaru uh g o x t  
eighty eight  
oh it's not pretty old  
so you think their quality [control's] going down over there kind of  
well i i i think we're going to see that i think uh that the quality that the japan [carmakers] had is slipping a little bit   while american [carmakers] are trying to get their   put together  
so  
but but that's one reason  
i uh i've had no problems with my subaru  
that's one reason i went with it because i subaru had a good reputation uh for you know low maintenance  
so  
well really  
there's there's no question  
but you have a nineteen  
i mean i've got to see if  
i mean i've seen and i've had friends that have uh like uh eighty one or eighty uh [celicas]  
and those things just keep [ticking]  
i mean they just they can rack up a a hundred fifty k on them  
and they're still beating on them  
and it's just amazing  
and then they got  
and you know they're not making them like that now you know  
so  
but they're still they're still a lot i think definitely better than the american [carmaker] system  
yeah  
yeah  
well maybe you need to unload it on somebody  
yeah  
that's a lot  
oh well  
anyway  
so what's your next purchase supposed to be  
oh really  
if you had a choice of your car what would you get  
i'm not sure i'm real familiar with the body style on that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
do you have uh do you have a family  
okay  
well that's probably influenced maybe a little bit  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well when i bought my car it was right out of college  
and uh you know i always been looking for something sporty  
and i ended up getting you know basically something that i could you know afford  
the only gripe i have is performance  
i probably uh  
a few girls that i've gone out with i've had uh like mazda r x seven's and stuff  
and they're they're pretty fun to drive  
so   so i think that's what uh i i'm going to have to get next time around   i keep i keep holding off  
and then i could i could upgrade now if i wanted to  
but i just i  
it's just such a huge expense  
and and uh i i'm just going to keep holding off  
but i'm definitely going to look for something uh in the you know nice   you know  
yeah  
i'm in  
are you still there  
hello  
okay  
wonder what happened  
huh  
anyway   um but i'll probably um  
it just depends  
i know that's what i want  
but i don't know if i'll get myself to spend that kind of money  
you're looking at you know for a new r x seven or a [supra] or something  
you're looking at twenty five k or something   that like  
and so   anyway but   anyway my ultimate car though the the one that i really want is uh five sixty or so mercedes  
so  
maybe someday  
yeah  
that's the only one that i you know  
i you know i see uh you know early on that that that says it says you there  
hello  
okay  
i hope it's not my  
you there  
it may be my phone um  
anyway it's the only car that says you know sporty and class uh  
so  
uh kind of what i'm  
but it's  
at the other one my brother's got a miata  
and those are fun  
and uh  
yeah  
well he did he had a a red miata  
and uh he actually  
they came out with a european racing green uh miata that's a limited edition  
they're only going to make like three or four thousand  
so he went out  
and he traded the other one in and got this one  
and i'm like um but uh i haven't seen one yet either  
but supposedly they have some real wood built in to like the clutch and all this and the steering wheel  
so it's it's very authentic  
and there only is supposed to be limited edition so it may be may be a good investment  
if it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but uh i think  
hello  
okay  
yeah  
i got off my pace or my cordless phone   anyway uh hope it's not going bad  
it's going to bump me out  
um but he i think he he only spent you know the low [twenty's]  
so   i don't know  
well i don't know  
i think the demands gone all down a little bit  
i think you can  
the prices aren't as high you know  
and the the miata was first introduced uh  

yeah  
the demand is so high that uh you know they were going to [retail] them around like you know thirteen standard you know  
and you get your options   your looking at fifteen or   fifteen  
but there were you know people were buying them for nineteen and twenty  
and um   they they may have gone down a little bit  
but i  
they're still pretty much in demand  
i think there's another car coming in  
it's supposed to come out and compete with that miata  
and i can't remember what i read about that  
but so that's  
i mean i would think somebody would try to compete with that because it is very popular  
so  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
and the mitsubishi   three thousand g t   is the same same  
yeah  
well that's that's   that's the same manufacturer  
and   so they just market them  
but uh yeah  
those are and those are supposed to be very performance power i mean they're   there is yeah big time  
yeah  
i think they're only around uh twenty nine k  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm being single  
and no other responsibilities for yourself i guess you know it's i can   i can i've been pretty happy  
i've i've haven't tried to upgrade myself right now  
that's uh you know i could i could have you know get something nice and upgrade  
but i just uh i'm consulting right now  
so  
i just made my first job hop about eight months ago  
so  
i drive a honda prelude  
oh yeah  
i bought mine a year ago  
so i'm not buying a car any time soon  
yeah  
yeah  
it  
well i i like where all the controls are   they're they're in good spots  
and i i have an automatic i can't drive a standard  
yeah  
but um  
i  
it's an it's supposedly real reliable  
the only thing i've ever heard about hondas is that the breaks go out first  
yeah  
yeah  
i had a buick regal  
yeah  
the buick was was great  
it was nine years old  
and it   was still going strong  
the only problems i had with it in the nine years that i owned it i had to replace the [compressor] when it was about seven years old  
and that was the only major problem that i had i mean  
i had like little piddly things like   i had to replace the muffler  
and i had replaced the tires  
and uh seems like it had a radiator leak once  
but i never had any major anything   other than the [compressor]  
huh_uh  
well i never well  
i kind of know how to drive standard  
but i've never owned one  
so i hadn't i don't drive one a lot  
so i don't feel comfortable in traffic with it  
and for everything i've heard it's a lot easier to sell an automatic  
and   and resale value is really important to me  
yeah  
yeah  
i did pretty well with my uh regal because it was in really good shape  
but   it still looked real nice  
the the interior was still really nice  
there wasn't cracks all over the dash board and stuff  
and it had some some nice features  
so i ended up okay with the buick  
and i anticipate the same thing with the honda whenever i decide to sell it  
of course i may never sell it  
i may drive it until it's dead  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
i wasn't even looking for a car when i bought this car  
i uh i was thinking about buying a prelude from a friend who was moving to new york or something  
so and she was going to sell her car because she didn't need it anymore  
and it was only like a year old  
and i had never driven uh a prelude  
so i went to a dealership because they had like uh the same year and same model   of prelude on their used car lot  
and i went and i test drove it  
and you know i just fell in love   with this brand new white prelude uh you know   two liter s i with the sun roof and the moon roof  
and i   bought it loaded  
oh  
yeah  
i went there looking at a used car  
and two days later i bought this car  
i felt like i felt like that was the worst impulse that was that was largest impulse that i   that i had ever made  
the the two   other things that i bought on impulse are a v c r and a washer   and dryer  
i go for the big stuff  
oh  
yeah  
i got   i got my buick as a high school graduation gift  
yeah  
but i i guess this wasn't really an impulse i mean  
buying it right then and you know right quickly was kind of [impulsive]  
but i'd been thinking about buying a new car for about three years  
and i was just scared to  
i was scared to start taking on payments because the buick was long since paid for  
buy a you   buy a used car  
sure  
yeah  
well um like on hondas they  
supposedly the maintenance records was supposed to be registered with honda or whatever  
and you can request whatever maintenance records exist on cars  
and you can have them checked out by mechanics and stuff  
i mean they can't stop you from doing it  
yeah  
well and even if they didn't you can still get a good idea from a if you can get a good mechanic to   check it over real carefully and check the block and everything  
so  
okay  
well i enjoyed talking to you  
bye bye  
what kind of a car do you drive now  
do you  
i drive a honda accord  
yeah  
yeah  
me either  
i just bought mine uh  
it will be a year in august  
i love it though  
i love hondas  
i think i found my car  
right  
oh really  
i have a standard  
oh really  
i hadn't heard that  
what did you have before you bought that  
did you  
i had uh a mazda r x seven before that  
and that was the worse car i've ever driven in my life  
really  
really  
yeah  
right  
i really never had anything major with my mazda  
but it was a standard also  
and the clutch went out on it toward the end  
i had it five years  
and the last year last two years it seemed to go out really easily  
i think it went out twice in two years  
and that's that's a lot  
it shouldn't go out that much  
and so i went ahead and bought another standard when i bought the honda  
but i don't think i'm going to do that again  
i think i'm going back to automatic now  
right  
right  
yeah  
it is  
that's true  
yeah  
it is me too  
that's why i got the honda  
hondas have great resale value  
the mazda definitely did not  
not at all  
they're worse than american cars i think or just as bad as far as resale goes  
yeah  
right  
good  
right  
yeah  
that's what i did with the mazda drive it until the until the clutch went out and the wheels fell off  
so probably what i'll do again  
but i really like the hondas  
i like foreign cars   a lot  
i looked at the mitsubishi [galant]  
i was looking for a four door car having driven the r x seven so long  
and it was so small  
and it's really impractical  
so i wanted something with a real trunk and four doors something easy to get in and out of  
and i looked at the [galant]  
and those were really nice  
and i can get them for a great price  
but i found it hard to deal with the the dealership i was going through  
so that's how i ended up with a honda  
right  
oh yeah  
they're nice i think  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i have to have them loaded  
um i love all those little things that you don't need  
but they're so wonderful  
i understand  
yeah  
i noticed  
mine was definitely not impulse  
i really needed a new car  
mine was just it was getting worn out i guess from being a sports car  
i drove it kind of hard  
and i got it right after high school  
so by the time i traded it in it was ready  
ready to go  
did you  
right  
right  
that's the same with me  
would you ever buy a used car for a new car for yourself  
like  
right  
i i was going to buy one once  
but i just i worry about who's driven them and what they've been through and the warranties and things like that  
just i can't seem to get over that  
that just bothers me  
i don't know why  
yeah  
that's true  
hoping that they do go to a honda dealership to get them [serviced]  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
well i guess that's all  
i enjoyed talking to you  
bye bye  
actually i'm real close to being in the market to buy a car  
i've got uh a couple older cars  
they're both over ten years old  
and uh they've served me well  
but i kind of would like to get a more uh gas efficient car   and a newer model something looks a little nicer  
uh i've got three children at home two fourteen year olds and a twelve year old  
and so i need to make sure i've got one that i can fit   all five of us into  
and if you if you know anything about teenagers it's kind of hard to get them to sit together for any amount of time  
well uh i've kind of been leaning towards a caravan  
uh now i know that that uh they've gotten quite pricey in the last couple of years  
but uh i like the dodge products  
and uh been uh couple times i've had a opportunity to rent one  
uh i've been really pleased with its performance and with the size  
and because if you get the seven passenger version you can put some space between the kids  
and uh i think that would that would serve us well  
plus it's got uh good storage capacity in it for you know taking things along   going to the store  
uh_huh  
exactly correct  
yeah  
if you want  
yes  
yeah  
it uh  
the dodge [caravans] will do that  
uh you can take the uh uh  
usually there's a uh a double seat behind the uh front buckets  
and then if you get the  
and then there's a three seat that goes or three person seat that goes in the back  
now what you can do is you could take that middle seat out and just have the three seats in the back   and the two seats up front  
or you can take the uh three seat out and just use the two seat  
or you can take the two seat and move the two seat to the back  
so it's very versatile  
you can move   the seats all around  
about the only thing you can't do is take that three person across seat   and move it forward  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's getting to be kind of important now that uh the price is becoming the driving factor  
and then you look at  
once you realize how much money you've got to spend then you start looking around at at what you can buy with it where before i think you you looked at the car you wanted  
and then you looked to see how well you could afford it  
or how you could afford it  
yeah  
yeah  
i know they're trying to do everything they can to uh end the recession  
and dropping the prime is probably one of the things  
i just bought a new house  
so i got a a uh nine and a half percent interest rate  
i'm not sure i could do much better today  
but uh that is also effecting buying a new car  
well that and that  
uh two fourteen year olds will be uh fifteen on the fourth of july  
so  
yeah  
they're twins born on the [bicentennial]  
you're going to have twins have them on the [bicentennial] is our [motto] july fourth seventy six  
so uh uh i've still got another full year and three months before they're going to be behind the wheel   of a car  
so america's safe for another fifteen  
and uh after that  
now i may keep the uh one or both of the two cars i i currently have for them to drive  
you know they're they're they're small enough that a first time driver could handle it yet big enough that i feel feel safe that   if they were in an accident they would survive  
know what i mean  
it i don't get that kind of feeling with the kind of car like you talked about the honda  
they're just  
uh_huh  
is that right  
uh_huh  
right  
jeez  
well  
yes  
definitely  
the thing is that they're  
i think it's a two part seat belt though  
there's the uh door belt  
and then there's one   a lap belt  
make sure you smack him around then  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the uh the supports  
uh a good source of information i've found has always been these uh used car manuals   because you can flip through the used car manuals  
and they'll give you a list of all the problems that the car's had in the past  
and you can look at the uh the track record on   a car over the year  
and you usually notice uh a lot of problems at the beginning and then things kind of iron out   to where   there's fewer problems  
and you get an idea on how well the the next car's going to be  
now as long as they aren't changing the model you know like when the uh pontiac grand prix went from being a huge car to a small car they had a lot of problems   with the smaller car  
as long as they aren't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i remember when that happened  
so unless they're really changing the model uh yeah chances are that it's probably going to have the the fewer mistakes than it had the year before  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well what what kind of car  
did you just buy a car  
or are you in the market to buy a car  
or  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i seem to remember when i was young that was a problem  
no  
no  
car was big enough for that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
which is the one that has [modular] type seats  
you know which one i'm talking about  
they have the commercial on tv where you can you can pull some seats out  
and you can move around  
is that is that the dodge caravan   that does that  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well the one that  
i can't remember one it is if it's the it it's the toyota or or one of the other ones  
i don't know if it's one of the americans or the import ones where uh they actually have like uh some bucket seats in the back  
but you can actually pull them out  
i mean they're really easy to pull out  
uh and you can uh move them around and stuff  
and it it  
to me that that would be real good for us  
uh my husband and i uh like to go camping and stuff  
and right now we have a van which is  
it's an older van  
and we're we're thinking about buying another sedan uh probably next year  
uh right now motorcycles takes [precedence]   since that that's what my husband really wants right now  
but uh next year we'll probably buy a new car  
and we're looking at uh possibly the honda accord  
uh that's kind of uh  
as far as far as the interior it's got the luxury interior  
but it doesn't really have the luxury price tag that a lot of the other cars have which is one of the things that we were looking at   you know finding something that's that's fairly affordable but yet has all the nice luxury items that we want  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think it's going to be a lot easier now  
i just heard that they [lowered] the prime lending rate  
so i think it's going to be a lot easier to to be able to get a car now   and finance it  
i think banks are going to be a lot more a little bit more lenient  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i can imagine  
you got to kind of work work that into your budget  
balance that and the house payment  
and of course uh is if you buy a new car you're going to  
are any of your kids driving age yet  
are are they twins  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well the the [honda's] have been have been very safe   in in accidents uh more so that a lot of the american cars  
matter of fact i just heard something today on on the news about those uh   automatic seat belts that are attached to the door  
uh they're questioning the safety of those now saying that  
and they showed uh a [simulation] where there they had a dummy in the car  
and the door opened  
and the dummy actually fell out of the car  
and the car rolled out on top of him  
so they're saying they're not as safe as  
they give the appearance of being safe  
but they're really not as safe as they as they uh appear to be  
so uh i'm kind of concerned about that as far as you know the seat belts  
uh i don't know if maryland has a uh a seat belt law  
but they do have one in texas  
and you're   you're required to wear them  
exactly  
but ninety uh probably about well i don't know about ninety  
but probably fifty percent of the people that have those probably don't wear the lap portion of it  
i know my brother doesn't  
and he has one in his car  
so i mean it it kind of gives you a false sense of security  
you think oh i've got one portion of my seat belt on uh  
but if your door comes open you know it's not going to do you any good  
so that that that's a concern of mine as far as uh what i'll be looking at with buying a new car  
uh i'm not really sure if i would want the seat belts attached to the door  
i think i would feel better with them attached to the actual car  
the inside where they're normally attached to   like behind the door  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the the [le] [mans] is like that too  
uh we used to have a [le] [mans] when i was in in high school uh  
and it was a big car  
i mean it was like the uh the grand prix  
and in i think around nineteen eighty uh they changed the model  
and it like went to half the size  
literally i mean it got chopped in half  
and it wasn't even the same car anymore  
didn't even remotely resemble the old car  
yeah  
well everybody that i've talked to who's ever had a honda   loves them  
and my husband had a honda uh  
and it was a lease car  
and he had to turn back in uh a year and a half ago uh  
and he had it for four years and never had a single problem with it  
and it was great uh  
and the only reason why we ended up not buying it was because we didn't feel the at the time the [residual] was like sixty five hundred dollars  
and it was a four year old car with seventy thousand miles on it  
and we thought that was a little bit too much to pay for   uh a four year old car  
so so we ended up  
just went just went ahead and just turned the keys back in and and got out of the lease  
uh one thing that i that i am curious about is uh reading information on air bags do some of the vans i think i don't know about the dodge caravan  
but some of the vans now have driver side air bags   which i think is a good idea  
okay  
what did you buy  
i'm sorry what  
oh really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
um if i had the money i think i would love to own a a b m w  
i don't know i  
from what or  
either that or mercedes just because they're put together so well  
it seems like they last forever  
oh i don't know they're they're not as nice looking  
uh  
to me i don't know i'm sure there are some that are  
but everyone i've seen is kind of plain  
but  
sherman  
where are you  
dallas  
yeah  
if i had um had the money i mean that's just  
i know i never would own one  
but uh i don't know i like  
my actual favorite cars were uh like the ford [thunderbirds]   of nineteen eighty five  
i really like that body style  
but i don't own one of those either  
uh mercury [topaz]  
cheap taste cheap taste in cars okay  
yeah  
they're all right it's it's a good car   i mean i've never had any problem with it  
sorry i [roped] on volvos then  
sorry i [roped] on volvos then  
oh is it  
see i don't much about them i guess  
yeah  
really  
uh_huh  
um i like anything besides japanese  
of course everything has japanese parts in them anymore  
i don't like japanese cars  
but uh european i don't have any i mean  
those are the kind i usually end up liking the most  
american cars a lot of people say they they don't last long  
but i've never had any problem with um my mercury  
or  
my  
my husband has a uh cougar  
and he's never had any problem with it either  
so i don't know  
well what are your  
i guess this is your first time to buy american  
so  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
where  
okay  
yeah  
this girl that works for me just bought a car down there  
and  
they they had a problem with they uh took their [camaro] in to get it traded and they they hadn't signed any papers  
and they had all ready uh taken it in to paint it and everything  
and everything was stolen out of it  
and the people um wouldn't reimburse them for anything  
yeah  
so i've heard some stuff about them  
but um  
what  
oh  
oh just about a week  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
oh wow  
yeah  
you too  
okay  
thanks  
bye  
a ford explorer  
a ford explorer  
yeah  
one of the new ones  
and um i'd i'd probably buy another this is the first american vehicle i've owned  
so i would probably purchase another one um i would be more selective in the dealership that i purchased it from  
but as far as uh the quality seems to be there um it's quiet it's it handles well um  
but i believe i'd get that or a porsche one of the two  
no  
not  
and why would that be  
what's wrong with the volvo  
oh  
what what city are you calling from  
oh  
up in dallas  
um  
b m w or mercedes yeah  
well that's a that's a  
uh_huh  
what do you presently drive  
um fun  
well there nothing wrong with those uh   they're they're nice   they're nice vehicles nothing wrong with those  
it um it's just everybody has their own taste  
but man the mercedes are expensive  
my wife has a volvo  
and it it's nice i mean you know it's okay an  
huh  
oh no  
no  
no  
no  
no  
no  
no  
it  
it  
i i kind of wish we would have maybe gone for the g l rather than the d l  
but because it is the safest car on the road uh   oh yeah  
yeah  
there just safe to just  
that's the reason why we mainly got it  
we got white  
and it's the safest four door you know it's good for if you have a family which we do  
we just we just  
one out  
and so it's it's uh um you know  
they're kind of low to the ground after driving the explorer  
you know i presently  
i used to have a two eighty z  
and i'm a tall guy an  
and uh they're hard to get around in traffic to see  
because you can't see a car ahead of you  
but they're fast as lightning and all that crap  
but the explorer i mean you're sitting up on top of everything  
and you can really see real well  
and i just  
it's so comfortable  
and and uh   so you're  
what are your feelings about american versus european cars  
why not  
that's the way it goes i guess  
yeah  
i was real hesitant  
but it was  
i don't know uh i mean i think european cars are great course you've got to have metric [wrenches] and stuff  
and they're  
some some of them are easy to work on  
a volvo being a four cylinder is very easy to work on  
uh excellent warranty i mean just unbelievable warranty  
and and uh of course ford isn't too bad  
i think chrysler would probably make a good vehicle  
uh but all of it has to do in my opinion with the service   and the attitude of the service of the dealership  
i wouldn't send my dog to buy a car from middlekauff ford  
there's  
middlekauff ford in plano  
their just  
their attitude is just slimy  
and and uh i've written a a letter to middlekauff  
and i've told them that matter of fact i got another letter last night from the quality ford division their still concerned about my attitude  
and it it will never change about that place  
and uh  
but uh anyway that's my own personal comment i guess  
but  
middlekauff wouldn't  
she needs to find herself a lawyer  
she'd she'd come out like a [champ] on that one  
so have you been using well anyway  
that was  
i was asking you some questions about the telephone and how long and how many have you been doing  
but that's  
they they don't want to hear that  
is that all  
a week  
good lord  
i think i started in january or february  
oh god i've  
i'm like twenty some phone calls  
that's why i i wasn't sure if this was the second time around or what  
well look i've enjoyed speaking with you  
and keep smiling  
bye bye  
okay  
cars  
you you  
maybe this is a fantasy we can to talk about any kind of car   we want here  
i want a rolls [royce] and a cadillac  
oh that's great  
i'm   i'm a hobbyist too  
i like to work on cars too  
oh that's good  
was you  
why they they didn't  
say buy it  
they didn't necessarily say buy it new they just said   what would you buy you know  
oh sure  
a restored   vehicle is is great   i think   certainly if it's an old mercedes will be good  
well that's great  
oh yeah  
you all   done a lot more  
when i talk about working on cars i sure don't do that  
oh okay  
oh that is good   [acknowledgeable] people  
that's amazing  
i i do all my own work uh  
so i i have chevies   mostly  
well   that's all i've got right now  
i've got three chevy v eights  
i'm uh i'm uh a chevy i'm an american car person  
but i do like mercedes  
yeah  
yeah  
well i'm not a ford person and never have been as a kid  
and uh i do like the v eight engines  
and i think the  
i went to the auto show with my daughter recently   down in dallas  
and   i to me the american cars are far superior to the japanese in styling engines   right now i mean  
i'm not saying that they were   a couple of years ago  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i  
uh you know they said they said what do we want to buy  
i i'm uh not seriously thinking  
but i i would like to   put it in that category uh by a cadillac  
but i wouldn't   buy a new one  
and you know of course if i had the money i'd be happy to by a new one  
but uh i do look for a one year old vehicle   with twenty some odd miles or whatever twenty thousand miles   whatever  
oh yeah  
i remember those  
that she may want to save if she she doesn't have it anymore  
that  
since they don't make them anymore   she that could be turned into a classic   in in ten fifteen years uh  
no  
he wanted new one  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i'm still a full size person  
and i like a full size cadillac  
i i want one of those  
i think they are i don't know a classic  
but they're   certainly not  
they haven't changed in about uh twenty years  
and   and they'll eventually phase them out  
and i sure would like one ever those uh uh within the next five years   or so  
right  
well even the japanese cars are bigger too  
but uh  
i've never had a  
i've never had   a japanese car  
i i've had friends who had them  
and i think they're a lot over  
and they're is just no styling to them  
you can't tell one japanese car from the other   because they all a like  
you know i don't mean that as a joke  
i mean   they really all look a like  
and the  
i don't have any idea what which car it is   until i look at it to see what it is  
and i think they have not uh lead the field in styling  
they do have sports cars  
but the price is way more  
you can get a cadillac for   the same price as you can get a small japanese   car  
it's ridiculous now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well if if you're interested you ought to go to the next auto show  
i i look at the cadillacs  
and boy there were some cadillacs that i didn't even realize they made  
but they were   just [styled] so differently  
they were standard cadillacs  
but they really looked beautiful  
oh no  
they have they have [convertibles] now in the cadillac   field  
and they have that new uh  
it's not the big uh [fleetwood] the one i want   which is been the same in the last twenty years  
there's another one that has came out in the last two year not the seville  
the seville is totally different  
now at the auto show they had fantastic looking cars  
oh yeah  
it was a month or so ago  
well they have it every year  
right  
now this was uh in it was downtown in the uh convention center  
and   they had all the cars  
they had japanese and german cars  
they had the full range  
and they had some they had some new cars that weren't even out  
they had uh a new chevy suburban   truck you know  
that big big one that was uh  
they didn't have a price on it   nor did they know had a it would cost  
it had a microwave in it and everything  
it was  
they had several futuristic cars  
yeah  
i know  
and i like engines  
they had a lot of broken down   not broken down i mean you know cut uh   displayed engines you know  
yeah  
but uh that that sold me in buying a new car you know  
i mean certainly interested in buying a new car  
but again the yeah the american cars were for superior in styling and   new engines  
and uh   i thing so because they've been making these four cylinder and six cylinder engines for a while  
and   i think that i i would definitely buy  
again there's the question are we in the market uh  
and i could buy anything you know  
yeah  
yeah  
well i haven't work on them myself so i don't that you know my cars don't go to the shop you know  
so uh  
i am the kind of engineer  
and i've always done it myself  
and uh   i've got three of them  
and uh i can't remember one  
i think i had one someone [welded] a muffler on for me   in a years time  
i think that's the only thing of the three vehicles that i've in it just the [welding] on  
like i said i don't do that you know  
yeah  
i i   noticed that when i was a kid uh  
i was wasn't a mechanical engineer  
but i worked my way through college as a mechanic  
so  
i learned early from   fifteen on   and dropped it for a long time when   when after i got out of college and   then picked it up again later on  
and now again i've got three vehicles  
and i don't i never get in them and just go to the shop at you will you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm keeping v eight v eight chevy engines   because that's what i know  
and in fact i stock the same part  
i'm like a little stock  
if you   brought your chevy to me i could i'd probably have some parts   for it right now you knows  
oh that's great  
i've always wanted to that too  
oh i can imagination  
hey  
that sounds like a great deal to me  
you have great [aspirations]  
well let's see  
i we just bought uh a seventy three mercedes that we have restored  
and it  
yeah  
it has really been a lot of fun  
uh we found some guys that actually you know worked for a mercedes dealership  
and uh they also repair them for other the people on their off time   so have we we have redone that thing from stem to [stern] i mean inside outside you know we've redone the body repainted it detailed it so you know i really haven't thought much past that it seems like you know  
i don't know if i'll ever want another new car again   you know  
maybe not  
yeah  
that's true  
i i don't know it just seems like uh you know for what we've put into it i feel like that's something that might retain it's value a little bit more   than you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
we the one thing that uh we did decide as it's it's  
we wanted it to be as authentic as possible  
but we did break down and put a c d player in it  
that's not quite authentic  
but at any rate that that was one thing that i one of the features that i did want  
i'd passed up on one and put a [sunroof] in it  
i had to stop there  
yeah  
well of course we do it ourselves  
but   like i said we were just lucky to find these guys that do it you know  
they're they just weren't really expensive  
and uh yeah you know  
right  
and they work on it  
so the things that can be done here they just come here to our home and and work on it or work on it  
so  
yeah  
it's you know it's really it's really been nice  
we uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you're an american car person  
yeah  
yeah  
i i have always had an american american car  
and uh i had a real real bad experience with the cougar that i had  
it was an eighty two cougar  
and uh i don't know  
i think it just [soured] me on it for some reason because i had trouble with it starting  
the engine blew up in it  
i had to replace the engine when it was only two years old so   you know i i thought what the heck you know  
we'll try something different  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i would that that there's  
i see a marked improvement   you know as far as uh what i've heard about performance and such you know so uh uh hopefully it'll stay that way i mean you know  
i'd i'd i would hate to see the american car industry suffering more than it already has   you know even though right now i'm not driving an american car  
but uh i think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
twenty thousand  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's what my parents are avid cadillac freaks  
they had uh  
and i think my my mother drives the seville now that's uh i guess it's a couple of years old  
and uh she had a seville before that that had the odd backs that was   that was so uh  
yeah  
yeah  
and she it final just wore out  
they had they had purchased it  
i don't can't remember how many years they had that car  
but she loved the styling of it  
no  
she sold it  
and she  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
she kept telling herself that  
and it's sort of a bone of [contention] between she and my dad because my dad said well just let me take it down there and find out what's wrong with it  
i mean he came back with a new car  
yeah  
i think he had an [ulterior] motive  
he could just see you know dollar signs starting to flip by as far as repairs went  
but uh they they really are nice cars there there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it seems funny you how within the last couple of years cars have gotten bigger again you know  
they had they've scaled everything down so much  
and uh i have i don't i've never owned a really large car  
i don't know  
i think that cougar was the biggest thing i ever had  
and  
yeah  
now the lexus are very nice looking cars   you know  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
what is what  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know that uh  
i've i've sort of always felt like with buicks it seems like all buicks to me look alike   you know  
i guess it just uh it seems to me they're all the same shape  
i have a very good friend that has a buick regal  
and she she's had she's got way offer a hundred thousand miles on it  
and that's what she's going to buy again  
and i'm like oh please it looks exactly the same as this old one that you've got  
and   so i guess it's in the eyes of the [beholder]   i suppose  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are they still  
are what they're  
what they have out for like the next year is everything still pretty square  
it seems like the cadillacs is one of the few makers that are still making really i i can't think of a car that they make are the than maybe the [alliance]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
now when when was this  
was this recently  
oh okay  
because i have  
yeah  
usually when i see the new cars it's during the fair when i go to the auto building at the state fair  
and that's usually when i see anything   you know  
oh i see  
yeah  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
that's wild   you know  
you hear about things like that  
and you think that can't possibly be done  
i mean it just   that's just too weird  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
so you could tell  
see the inside of them or whatever  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well maybe  
somebody's finally [woken] up you know  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
you know if i could fine  
i i was really crazy about [jags] for a while  
and the convertible had a is it x j s or something like that  
and i   you know thought that's a dream car  
and and you really would have to be a dream car because the repair bills are supposedly just constant you know  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's good that you can  
oh really  
that  
oh gosh  
that's great  
i think it takes a talent to do that you know  
my my husband is uh engineer  
but he cannot i mean  
or maybe he's just doesn't want to mess with it  
that's might be part of it  
but uh you know we just i just say forget it we'll just take it in   and get it taken care it  
he drives   drives a honda  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's to that's one thing that when you would consider  
see when i go out to think about a new car or buy another car i don't think about well is this engine that i can work on or that you know   my husband can work on or whatever you know  
so you're you're pretty lucky in that respect that  
yeah  
that's when you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's pretty good  
it's really been funny because we have like been you are own contractors kind of with this car  
and when i say we have redone everything i mean we have done everything  
and it's   it's really been so interesting the people you meet because uh my husband carl has called all over the country you know  
he's gotten these catalogs  
it's really more difficult to find these [vintage] parts when you might think this is for a seventy three  
are you in the market for a car recently  
oh what did you get  
uh_huh  
what what convinced you to get that one  
uh_huh  
oh incredible  
how many miles on it  
and it's still running real well  
oh great  
yeah  
we have uh right now we have two cars uh  
i have my husband and myself and we have two sons who are drivers   and one of which is a um an eighty eight plymouth voyager van  
and then we have um  
about a year ago we picked up a second hand uh uh audi  
and uh that was a you know a sedan  
and uh we got that  
the major things  
the reason why we got that is we had had a nova  
and a  
well  
my son was driving  
and someone came into his lane and hit him  
and fortunately he was able to  
his  
i mean he was checked out of the hospital was out of the hospital by that night but the car was completely [totalled]  
and mike and they had been my two sons had been a passenger in a car about a year and a half before that which was hit by another car  
so i mean i got i was getting really nervous  
so i finally said we i want a really solid car  
so we found the audi second hand  
i guess right now my criteria for cars is uh of being solid able to take an impact  
and uh so uh i we're not going to be in the market for in the near future for any new car  
but the things that i would want would be a solid car  
another thing i'd definitely want would be anti lock brakes  
uh our our van which is a a [delight] to drive does not have  
i think the brakes on the plymouth van is just are terrible  
if the road is at all wet and i'm  
and i don't go all that fast but the uh it it just doesn't hold  
it doesn't hold well at all  
so i i definitely want to get anti lock brakes  
so i don't know  
do you have any particular things that that are priorities on your list  
yeah  
i guess down here air [conditioning's] a must isn't it  
uh_huh  
that's incredible  
that is incredible  
uh we we get about our the van gets on highways can get about twenty eight  
the audi does not have good mileage  
that's the one drawback  
it's a powerful car   um but it does not uh  
i mean i if i'm on a highway and i can get twenty twenty one miles per gallon i consider that i'm lucky  
maybe maybe sometimes i've gotten twenty two  
it comes out around the eighteen or nineteen local driving  
and that's a to me is a real drawback  
i wish i would you know i could settle for twenty eight  
but uh the uh the frills on that car are nice but they're not necessary for me   except air conditioning  
in this area uh in washington d c area it gets hot and humid  
yeah  
uh so air conditioning is uh definitely a necessity for us through two or three months in the summer  
um but i uh i i don't need uh you know  
power windows are nice but i don't need them   although i must say when you're driving in the east and there are all these toll roads come into a toll road you just push that button down  
it's real nice for that window to zip down and zip up instead of having to crank it  
yeah  
but or you know if you want to have open windows to be able to  
if you're alone in the car   just to press buttons and  
but you know i've lived all these years without them  
i probably could have lived a little longer  
uh one of the things that we have uh we've liked when we gotten a new car and this this used car has it is a sun roof  
and those are really nice in good weather  
so so i guess if we get a new car it definitely would have to have anti lock brakes  
i'd love to get an air bag   and a sun roof and uh just so it'd be a good solid car  
i guess that those are my major criteria  
everything else is you know a luxury  
and they   make the car more expensive but they often add more things to repair when things go wrong  
so uh if you were to buy a new car now a brand new car what would you look for  
yeah  
yeah  
isn't that true  
it's it's funny um uh that you use  
the [audi's] german and i have to say it has been pretty dependable  
yeah  
sometimes one advantage of an american made car is if you get stuck anywhere most local garages can fix you up  
but once you get if you once you get something fancy you get stuck somewhere off of the main area   you can be really  
and the parts i know the audi parts are terribly expensive  
i mean it  
i [shudder]  
i would not get the audi again just for that reason  
but i would love i wish an american an american that you know engineering would make something as solid as a german car  
you know we   certainly have the technology  
but it's amazing  
when we bought this audi  
i mean everything is more solid in it  
uh if  
you don't feel you've got any of the [flabby] plastic  
and i know  
and i i and i'm willing to give up a little bit in the mileage for a solid car  
i don't think i have to give up as much as i'm giving up  
but do you need air conditioning down there  
yeah  
oh we've had eleven days in a row over ninety  
they've in fact had to excuse school down here because of that  
well listen  
i enjoyed talking with you  
okay  
and enjoy enjoy your car  
thank you  
you too  
it's going to be a hot one  
okay  
bye bye  
yeah  
i just bought a car  
i got a nineteen ninety three cavalier station wagon  
well a friend of my father's and he'd driven it all over the country   and it runs great  
it's like it has a hundred and fifty three thousand  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
um  
well it's  
i didn't really need power windows but it has power you know windows   and steering and air conditioning  
and and uh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it has a stereo and a cassette player  
and um he's told me it gets forty two miles to the gallon  
uh_huh  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's really humid  
right  
crank  
yeah  
right  
you don't have to stretch  
that's true  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
right  
um like you said anti lock brakes and air bag  
and uh i'd i'd really like to have a car that's dependable   that that you drive you know like a american made car that's as dependable as mercedes or somebody you know that's  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they have parts  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
we really do  
because even today it's supposed to get up into the nineties  
so  
uh_huh  
um   it was nice talking to you  
yeah  
have a nice summer  
yeah  
bye bye  
okay you say you're going to buy a new car  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i understand that  
we uh just paid off one my wife's car uh i guess early last year  
and so we're you know enjoying not having that that payment every every month  
and but it's getting up in age uh  
we're trying to hold out a little while longer uh  
we've got a a a daughter who's almost two now  
so   we're getting to the point where we really kind of need something a little bigger than what we've got  
but uh   so i guess if we when we do buy another car it'll it'll be something that we can uh kind of grow into a little bit  
it's it's tough on trips because uh   anytime we we're getting ready to go anywhere it's uh you know it's uh try like trying to put a puzzle together to make sure you get everything in the car you know cause it's  
uh_huh  
right  
that's what  
i i ideally i would like that in fact uh you know i i've i've thought of that possibly uh  
i don't know that my wife would go for it  
but   you know i would i'd like to do that  
i i have a truck myself  
and i'll i'll take you know  
a truck's a thing that you you need when you need it  
but you know   the rest of the time you wonder you know could i use something else  
so i i've still got a couple years payments on it  
i may  
uh if we can hold out til then you know i may get get to where i need a something else maybe maybe buy a van because they are really really nice for for long trips especially  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
um  
right  
i don't either  
well my wife's car is probably around five years old now  
and it's it's got oh uh  
i guess it must have seventy or eighty thousand miles on it you know  
and so it it's getting  
it's not not in bad shape  
it's it's you know she's kept it up real well  
but uh you know it's it's getting to the point where we really need to do something with it you know   if we're going to get anything out of selling it  
so i'm i'm uh i'm i'm hoping we that we can work something out here  
we've got other bills that kind of [precede] or [preclude] us buying   something buying something else  
it really is  
and you know and you can't uh you can't afford you know a a car payment now  
it just   will wipe you out every month  
it's almost getting to be like the house payment you know  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh i didn't know that  
uh_huh  
oh man  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh  
that's that's our our our daughter's problem you know because when you when you get out on the road like that and it's just long [stretches] you know where they just have to sit you know  
in town she does okay you know  
and even on the road she does all right for a little while because she'll sleep some  
but you know  
she she [wakes] up  
she wants to to get up  
i know uh coming uh right around christmas we were we were uh right before christmas we had driven over to shreveport  
and we were driving back  
and it was when all that bad weather was was hitting  
and the roads were all closed  
and uh we were trying to get back  
and it took us a lot longer  
and she was you know she was pretty good most of the way  
but then get to a point where she just had to get out of her seat and we had to stop  
and   and we got out and played in the snow and put here back in  
and she was fine  
but you know if we had if there was something to where she could kind of get up and move around like you say on on the highway or where where it wasn't   wasn't as bad you know just for a little brief period of time it would be would be okay  
so i'm i'm thinking maybe we can can do something like that later on  

we'll see what we can do  
yeah  
well i  

you too  
i   hope everything works out  
right  
well no  
it's probably going to be a very old used one  
my husband had an accident in my car a little over a week ago  
and i drove a nineteen seventy seven um b m w  
and so i believe  
and i'll know the answer today   that they're going to total it  
i think that it will cost more to fix it than it's probably worth  
but i'm not interested in having any car payments  
so i actually went last weekend with  
my father was in town  
and we went and looked at used cars around town  
uh and i you know i found like a nineteen eighty four regency ninety eight with only forty six thousand miles on it  
and that was pretty good condition uh  
but i also found a nineteen eighty volvo uh station wagon   that was in just super condition  
i mean there's not a dent on the outside body  
the inside is clean  
it's had the same owner for years  
it it has about eighty thousand miles on it  
but that's all right you know  
the [engine's] in excellent shape  
and i think it would last me probably another fifty or sixty thousand miles  
so i guess i'm kind of in [limbo] waiting to see what the insurance is you know company is going to do to see whether or not i can get one of these cars  
i don't want a new car though  
a new car payment  
um  
uh_huh  
well not only that needing the room you know we finally ended up buying a dodge caravan here about two and a half years ago   because i too have very small kids  
i i have one that's now  
well she'll be four in september and then a little boy that's just turned two  
and you know it's like you go on a trip  
and you know you pull over to the side of the road throw them on the hood change a diaper and keep going  
and i wanted something that i could maybe walk through and get to them  
and  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we have definitely put a lot of use in on ours  
and i understand it is too expensive to have two car payments  
see that was the problem my b m w was paid for  
and my husband's been in business for himself for several years  
and so he can [depreciate] cars  
but you  
used to be you kept them three years  
well when they did all the tax law changes you had to keep them five  
so i was trying to keep my b m w in tact uh for three more years   so that then i could take the van  
and we'd trade my car in on a new car for his business  
and so basically that's what i'm looking for in a used car something that's going to last me at least three years  
well if i can pull a deal on this volvo you know it will last me longer than that  
it will actually last me quite a while  
but i don't know how families afford two new car payments  
it's just   it's outrageous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
know how that goes  
it's the pits  
isn't it  
that's right  
i know  
you can't find what you used to  
could find something for you know seventy five a hundred dollars a month  
it might not be brand new  
but it was a decent car  
and you just almost can't find that payment anymore  
so i understand that it's it's kind of hard to go do  
well if you do look at them i really recommend the dodge caravan  
we've had wonderful  
it's the only uh minivan they make that's on a car [chassis] instead of a truck [chassis] so it doesn't   you know shake you around like a a truck does  
and we have had just wonderful luck with ours  
i mean it's we take it everywhere  
it it's been it it's so easy to get the kids in and out  
see my car was also a two door  
and which drove me nuts trying to get car seats and kids   into a back seat you know  
and so it's wonderful to have the room and the space  
and you can haul things  
and they climb in easily  
and it's just been everything that we were hoping it would do for us  
and it is nice on long trips  
in fact christmas we drove to california which is my home  
and you can take out the middle seat  
and they come out fairly easily so we took out the middle seat put the car seats in the back and just had a whole area in the middle like if we were out on open road  
and it was their nap time  
we just went ahead and laid them down  
you know i wouldn't do that if we were in a city or if there were a lot of cars around or anything  
but it made it so much easier to travel  
uh_huh uh  
oh yeah  
sure  
it's a long time  
uh_huh  
right  
well that would be good  
that would be good  
well i appreciate talking to you  
good luck in your car buying  
well really i'm supposed to hear today  
and i i hope it  
i really would prefer the volvo i think  
i know it's older than the regency  
but you know they're built of that [unibody] steel construction  
and it would take a hit fairly well  
and you know my b m w that my husband was going forty to forty five miles an hour  
and you know it didn't even bend the frame  
it bent in the bumper and the quarter panel  
but unfortunately they think if it says b m w on it that you have money  
they don't know  
are you ready to start  
okay  
well i just found out that my car was thirty months old  
and it doesn't seem like it's that old  
seems like i just bought it  
it's an eighty nine  
and i bought it uh in uh eighty eight  
so yeah  
i know  
i really will do that the next time   i buy it too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's wonderful  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
huh  
sure  
right  
uh_huh  
but do you feel though uh [craftsmanship] is much superior to the american abilities  
is that how you  
i have never  
its  
isn't that a shame  
my word isn't that sorry  
that's sorry  
my word  
oh mercy  
you  
huh  
huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
no thanks  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
who makes that car  
i mean but where are they where are they  
what what is their location  
is it uh asian  
or is it european  
or who  
oh it is japanese  
okay  
i didn't know  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
i guess so  
that's true  
yeah  
if if   if i had the car i wanted  
gee  
probably um uh let's see i like the looks of the lincoln town car  
but i i don't know the performance of it  
that's a   ford product  
and you know   i would get hung up by my boot straps if i   if i ever mentioned the ford product in my family  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
can i put you on hold for one minute  
thank you  
well that was one minute  
they hung up  
um well the comfort of a large car that the security of a large car   um and the luxuries of a large car  
uh now color preferences  
i think i would opt to go with a bronze   which is probably closest to gold that you can get  
yeah  
right  
well practical  
yes  
that's  
uh_huh  
right  
and it's cooler i believe   too   when you're driving in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
um can you uh hang on again  
thanks  
i've got the phones for lunch hour  
so  
just don't mind me if i bounce back and forth  
um so you like to listen to uh a lot of music  
or do is it talk shows  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
all the  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's true  
do you listen   do you listen to w r r  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
those are nice aren't they  
yes  
those are nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yes  
have you recently bought a new car catherine  
oh  
oh wow  
well i really the last car we got was a was a used car  
i really don't prefer buying a new car  
i like to let somebody else pay for that  
but uh   mine was a year old  
and we bought it for very functional purposes  
and that was we bought a station wagon  
we wanted an economical car   to operate  
but we wanted one that could carry a lot of equipment  
so we chose a nissan [stanza] wagon  
and i've never been sorry  
however the need for that   kind of car has changed now  
and uh while it is still good   and it's quite serviceable   and i'll drive it until it no longer is reliable  
and probably then some  
i'll spend a lot of time praying over it before i give it up  
i think that i would like to  
if you know we all say if i could have the car i always wanted   i would either buy a nissan maxima uh  
i'm sold on [nissans]  
i a or or foreign cars actually  
uh  
uh  
its reliability  
its reliability  
and uh i you know i've read all the consumer reports and things  
and they just run head and shoulders above the american made cars  
if ford was a head and the shoulders above it i'd buy a ford  
but i had uh had a ford escort that absolutely needed taps the day we got it  
uh you know i mean it was ready for the [graveyard]  
and i spent as much on that car in twelve months as i spent for the car  
so  
and that was just trying to hold us  
getting out of that was a used car  
and it was an older car  
but you know escort is supposed to have a great track record   as far as sales  
but it's just it just was not  
and you get stung a time or two  
and you say no thanks  
so i just trusted the consumer reports and the auto   uh reports  
had my son who knows a lot about that study them thoroughly  
and he gave me four choices of cars to buy  
an escort definitely was not among them  
in fact there wasn't an american car in there  
uh the nissan came  
and and we bought the nissan for functional purposes not what the consumer reports said we should get  
but it served our needs  
uh later on his reports the reports that he studied showed that uh nissan was head and shoulders above the rest in the in the class that we were looking for  
and that and i'd rather have a maxima than a cadillac  
i really would  
it's not necessarily prestige  
but it's comfort  
uh there's a lot of features on there that are desirable if you're going to pay that kind of money for a car  
uh  
nissan  

no  
no  
no  
nissan is japanese  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and uh if i couldn't have my luxury maxima   then i'd buy me a fancy little red c r x sports car  
i mean you know every every one of us have two sides  
yeah  
now what about you  
if you could have the car that you wanted   what would you get  
and why  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i tell you that's sad too because there one time ford was the best   that was made  
really was  
and uh i i really have not seen  
now a lot of the american cars actually are are parts are produced in foreign countries and assembled here or vice versa  
of course  
okay  
uh at any rate do you have color preferences  
or what would be the features that you would be looking for  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh wow  
we like the stuff that [glitters]  
good  
there's nothing wrong with that  
actually i think probably if i were going to get if i were going to be practical which doesn't mean i would be   i would prefer white   because simply because it's more visible at night  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now the interior  
okay  
i don't care about the interior just as long as it's not black or red  
but if i had the little red c r x   i guess the interior would have to be black leather  
and i'd have to live with that  
and if i got the c r x it would have to have a real good sound system in it because i'd want that too  
i'd just go back to my teenage years and just throw all my experience to the wind  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's okay  
no  
no  
no  
i generally would uh prefer to listen to uh well i listen to k c b i a lot  
but i will listen to the news and the and the traffic and those things at work  
but if i'm going to be traveling in that car for any period of time   i want some real good classical music  
i love classical music  
and you just can't enjoy it unless you've got a good sound system to produce all the   all the characteristics of the instruments  
so i do love classical music  
or it or or uh   contemporary classical  
uh_huh  
sure do  
w r r and the [oasis] are the two that i listen to   more than anything else  
and i do like them  
and i'd like to have a compact disc player in the car  
that would be   something that i would really like  
those compact [discs]   really are good for cars because they don't melt  
they don't [warp]  
you know there's nothing in there that can wrap around the the uh rollers or anything  
it seems like a really good answer to portable music   that you can choose  
all right  
why don't you go ahead first and tell what kind of car you'd look for in your next  
uh_huh  
and of course it has to have air conditioning  
does it have to be a special color  
it sounds like something your husband would drive right  
yes  
well i don't think we're looking for another car right now because we just bought one  
but when we were looking we were looking for something that had enough seat belts of course  
and we wanted air conditioning and a five speed  
and that was kind of iffy  
but that made it better economically  
so  
yeah  
we'll probably have to look for another second car sometime  
and we'd look for about what you're looking for  
but probably real cheap too  
it wouldn't be a used used car  
so but no  
uh_huh  
would you like four doors  
or doesn't really matter  
yeah  
it it's hard for people to get in with a two door sometimes  
it would be fun just to win one wouldn't it  
that would be great  
all right  
well i think that's all that we need to say  
all right  
we'll talk to you later  
bye bye  
i think our next car i would like something like a an economy car that gets really good mileage and uh one that's really reliable  
i would i think probably not a a brand new car  
but maybe something like a nissan sentra   or something like that uh  
something my husband  
oh absolutely  
air conditioning and a radio uh a m f m and a cassette player  
and uh what else do i want  
uh i would think kind of a [subdued] color would be nice  
you know a a navy blue or a  
yeah  
that's what it would be for is for him to drive back and forth to work  
i think that's something we might want too is some kind of standard transmission   at least rather than automatic  
i think we would want one that even though it was a compact car or whatever that it would still be nice enough that uh you could take someone in it and not be embarrassed  
well probably probably that would be a good idea  
yeah  
that's right  
so if we wanted it to take people out it's that's a good thought  
i  
that hadn't crossed my mind  
yes  
i would go for that  
well thank you for calling  
all right  
bye  
well i've been real um thinking i'd love to buy a new car   right now if i could afford it  
but we have two cars right now  
and we're still paying on them  
but i would love to have one of these new mini vans  
i've got two little ones  
and i think that would be just the perfect family car  
oh  
what is it  
oh  
yeah  
we have um we have  
we went out to buy an american car  
so we bought um a chevy nova about three years ago  
and and we opened up the the hood  
and it said toyota made in japan right across the front of all the engine parts  
uh_huh  
toyota uh  
well the chevy nova is the same car as the toyota camry  
uh at that time was the same car  
so they just put different names on them depending on who they're being shipped to  
i thought that was pretty  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's why we were so surprised to see toyota written i mean [imprinted] on the engine  
it was real interesting  
but uh i  
with so many options now available you know where where cars are concerned it just seems like there is there's almost too much of a choice anymore  
you know there's so many different options and so many different prices and who has this cash back and whatever  
i think that if i were really serious about looking for another car i would take into consideration the price naturally  
but um you know i would really want something that i would want for that much money for ten or twelve or fifteen thousand dollars or whatever  
oh  
definitely  
i cannot imagine that you know somebody  
i heard a commercial or something about a sixty thousand dollar car about oh it would how   exciting it is to make that kind of a purchase  
and i thought i don't think i'd find that exciting  
i'd be wondering you know here i am buying this expensive of a car and my house isn't worth that much money  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
well we had a pretty  
we bought our chevrolet brand new  
and then we bought a used car  
just a minute  
i'll change your diaper  
then we bought our our next car used  
and uh we had better luck with our used car  
and i like it more  
it cost us less money  
and we got more features and air conditioning and whatever on it then we did on our brand new one for twice as much money  
if you can find one that's uh you know reliable  
if you can get someone that you trust to buy one from  
or you know make sure that you can have it checked out well enough  
uh i wouldn't  
uh_huh  
[sh]  
yeah  
that's  
we bought one like that  
uh_huh  
we bought one car that way  
and had  
we bought it real reasonably  
and it was in real nice condition so because apparently whatever the bank get  
oh  
i  
right now my car is [terminally] ill  
so i am really looking at uh facing the purchase of a car  
and  
uh what i would like to have is so totally impractical for me that   i won't do it  
but  
uh well i would like for one time in my life to have a convertible  
and uh you know i don't even like the wind blowing in on me  
so i don't know why i think i want one  
but i do  
uh i will probably stay with a foreign make  
i've had real good luck with them  
is that right  
oh  
well i didn't realize it  
i knew that one of the that nissan which is toyota had uh joined with had a plant over here  
and and i   didn't know if it was general motors or who  
but i i never thought of  
i know uh  
you think it's a chevrolet in the good old u s a  
huh  
well yeah  
and that's minimum  
it you know it's   it's a major purchase   now  
what we used to pay for homes is now what a car   can cost  
if they held their value that would be one thing  
but when you consider that when you drive them off of the show lot   they're immediately two thousand dollars [depreciated]  
and you know that  
i don't know that   i'll go with  
i've bought a new car the last three that i've bought  
and i don't know that i'll buy a brand new one again  
well i'm i'm seriously considering going that route instead of a brand new car  
well some people you know some people have to have a new car every year   or it you know at the most every two years  
and they don't drive them that much  
especially   your foreign cars you know   like a honda or uh a toyota  
six thousand is just getting broken in for them  
and if i can find one or a [repossession]  
and with the banks being in such financial you know problems now that people  
you can find the banks willing to sell you a car  
okay  
what kind of car are you going to buy next  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
well i'm really not looking at anything for a while  
but   you know when you're driving down the road you see all these pretty new ones that are out  
and you think oh well maybe maybe i would like a new car  
but i think i'll be driving mine about two or three more years anyway  
but uh  
right  
they are  
i sure do like the looks of that new mitsubishi [diamante]  
that is a pretty car  
uh_huh  
that's pretty too  
yeah  
they get pretty expensive  
the last one i bought i bought a uh  
well it's a it's a town car  
but it was a demo returned  
and i got it with like you know i think it was like fourteen thousand miles on it   and nearly ten thousand dollars less than what the list price was  
so i was really pleased to find that  
and i then i bought it for cheaper  
i was looking at a honda accord a brand new one  
and i bought this uh the the lincoln town car for just a little less money than what i was going to buy the new honda accord  
and the thing about it is   they give you that ten uh   that hundred thousand mile five year warranty   where it only costs you twenty five dollars to have anything repaired  
so uh i have really been impressed  
i said i probably never be able   to find another one that i can afford you know  
but i have loved this car better than anything i've ever driven because you can go on the road and get there  
and you're not even tired  
and it gets like twenty six miles to the gallon on the road  
it sure does  
i they kept telling me that  
and i thought they're crazy  
so the week after i got it well actually before i signed the papers on it i took it over to [boozier] city  
and it did it  
but it's uh  
yeah  
well that's kind of what we've always been told you know they'll do  
and then we hope for it  
and it never happens  
but it really it does get good gas mileage  
most of the time when i don't go anywhere i can drive it for like three weeks from to and from work you know and then fill it up  
so  
i haven't had anything  
i've taken it in twice for like just really minor things  
and it cost me the twenty five dollars  
the uh really something really silly when we first got it  
we couldn't get the light  
they have all these lights in the car  
and it has this fancy little light that gives you a reading light for the [passengers] in the back seat  
and we couldn't get the light to turn off  
and we kept trying you know  
and we went out to dinner with some friends  
and it stayed on all night you know   just shining right down on them you know  
and we couldn't get it to turn off  
and the next day my husband goes out there  
and he tries to get it off  
we turn the [knob] you know in the front that's supposed to turn the   lights on and off  
and   we turned everything we could  
and he took it in  
and they said you know you just have to press the switch  
he says i've pressed every switch in that car  
and i can't get the light off  
it's broken  
so they took it in and charged us the twenty five dollars  
and they called and told us though that all you have to do is turn the off switch  
and they showed us where the switch was  
they they thought there was really something wrong with it when he told them he had already done the switch  
but he hadn't he hadn't done the right one  
and it's right on the arm rest in the back  
and we didn't know it was there  
and the guy hit it with his arm when he got in the car  
and so we thought you know there there was it was broken  
but we've had just uh  
i guess it's been in two times  
i've had it three years now  
and uh it's been in two maybe three times  
but it's just been real minor things  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
but it's really it's been an enjoyable car  
like i say i'll probably never be able to have another one because i think we bought it for about sixteen thousand you know  
and i said i'll never find another one for that price  
and they keep going up  
so i'll have to enjoy it  
well one of the cars i'm thinking about buying next is uh a nice safe small car  
but um uh the reason being is we just purchased a van a little while ago because we have   a big family  
and we use that to get back and forth and haul kids around and   so forth  
and we have another four door car that i drive to work  
and i think it'd be more economical if i were able to a smaller car   and uh wouldn't be wouldn't cost much with gas  
what what are you looking at  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yes  
oh yes  
well the cost of new cars recently are extremely outrageous for the  

oh yes  
oh yes  
i'm uh i really like the looks also of the new mazda   that they have  
but um i uh you know the the costs of a new car and those new models are extremely out of our price range right now  
yes  
they do  
uh_huh  
right  
well you can't go wrong with that kind of opportunity  
yes  
wow  
well you get a much bigger better   comfortable ride  
yes  
well that's fantastic  
that's real real good  
no  
do you  
very comfortable smooth ride huh  
oh it does  
that's that's unbelievable for that size of car  
yes  
wow  
that's great  
that's great  
that kind of gas mileage uh we're we're kind of hoping for on our van  
uh_huh  
well that's excellent  
uh_huh  
do you uh do does it uh need a lot of repairs  
is it a very reliable kind of car  
yes  
yes  
um  
oh dear  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
they charged you twenty five dollars just to tell you that huh  
uh_huh  
oh so they probably went through the  
i see  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
and found it right away  
uh_huh  
yes  
well i think that uh you have an excellent deal then  
and the the company is able probably to offer that kind of warranty on the car because they know it's so well built that they don't expect any kind of major repairs   whereas with an awful lot of other lower quality cars you would be getting repairs after repair after repair  
and those companies wouldn't be able to afford that for that kind of extended warranty or warranty at all  
so  
yes  
no  
not at all  
well i don't know if i really have a a lot of uh requirements  
uh i guess i look at uh getting the best deal  
uh that's my main objectives normally whoever is willing to deal and and give me a good price  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know i've had pretty good luck you know  
even if if you take any car and and you care for it well enough uh you are going to get some good life out of it  
uh my my oldsmobile right now that i have uh is getting near eighty thousand  
and it's still in pretty good shape  
uh there was a [flaw] in there where a where a head gasket bolt broke  
and it cost me some bucks to to fix that  
but that was you know something that was [unforeseen]  
but i still think i i'm going to get probably a hundred fifty thousand or more out of it  
well i i drive like the song says the little old lady but uh but not from pasadena  
but uh  
yeah  
i i baby them as much as i possibly can  
uh it's a pretty big expense nowadays  
uh and i guess i like to take care of it uh  
so i don't have to buy one too often  
yeah  
i i i got an old uh seventy six uh grand [fury] that uh doesn't want to die on me  
so i i just keep running the thing don't want to sell it or get rid of it until it quits  
but it just doesn't seem to want to  
i'll probably have uh three four hundred thousand before it wants to die  
oh i've got the big three sixty in there gas [guzzler]  
but it runs good  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i'm considering probably some kind of a pickup truck myself for the next vehicle  
uh i just have so many hauling projects a lot of times  
and uh i i'd like to just start doing some uh carpentry uh type work around  
i just feel that  
well [sid]  
have you established what kind of requirements you are looking for for your next vehicle  
okay  
well i i tend to be more [methodical] i guess  
uh i determine first of all what i'm going to use the vehicle for whether it's going to be primarily as a family mover or as a a personal mover uh where it's going to be driven you know what types of uh driving i'm going to be doing on it primarily highway or or local mileage more often  
and uh hanging in the back of my mind is always the knowledge that i tend to drive cars for about ten years and a hundred fifty to two hundred thousand miles  
so i'm i'm real picky  
if you are going to keep something that long you know you better get something that you wanted to begin with and that you are going to like for a long time  
sure  
well it sounds like you tend to drive your cars quite a ways also then  
that's true  
uh do you have more than than one vehicle in your fleet  
uh do you have a family fleet  
or  
well that may be  
they chrysler made some really good old engines back then  
like the the three eighteen was particularly an [exceptionally] good engine  
yeah  
at the moment i've got uh cadillac [cimarron] which is approaching its tenth year of age and a uh reasonably new plymouth voyager  
it's only a a couple of years old  
but that's the second one of of those that we've had  
and that's the the family travel vehicle  
you know not only does it do all the the uh carpooling around during the week  
but it's also the vacation vehicle that we all drive in  
i think that what i'm getting ready to get next is probably a suburban unless they drastically change the the vehicle a lot  
uh i'm just getting tired of when i do get hung up in traffic not being able to determine what the problem is and and come to some resolution of whether it's better to sit in the traffic light and wait or get off at the next exit and that kind of stuff   just because i can't see you know  
i'm to my [cimarron] is just so small and so low to the ground that i can't see past any vehicle   that's in front of me  
what kind of car would you like to buy next  
well why would that be  
okay  
well that's good  
if you had uh no financial requirements if you could buy any car in the entire world no matter what it cost what would you buy  
do you  
which type of cadillac uh is your favorite  
the seville  
that's a sharp looking car  
that really is  
it it always has been though   you know  
it doesn't have the coup de ville or the sedan de ville [squareness]  
it never really has  
it's always had it's own unique look  
well i've always liked that  
i liked the the  
one year they had a couple years they had where the trunk head would look like belt [buckles] across the back of it  
i thought now that looks sharp  
that looks real sharp  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and uh the  
i i've never really uh i've never ridden in one recently um  
but they're supposed to be just real smooth  
just a nice comfortable ride  
uh_huh  
right  
now they've got a unique uh feature in them now  
if uh if you have a front end accident at such a rate of speed the the engine will actually drop out of the car so that it doesn't come through the so it doesn't go it doesn't go through the you know into the inside  
it'll go underneath the car instead  
so that's that's a big safety factor they've got in them now  
the air bags  
yeah  
so  
well that's great  
that's great  
so you say you've always have preferred general motors products  
right  
what kind of uh general motors cars have you had in the past  
oldsmobiles  
those are real nice riding cars too  
has that been the cutlass or the sierra  
the ninety eight  
okay  
well i don't think  
uh let's see  
the ninety eight  
now that's got that big v eight engine in it doesn't it doesn't it  
has a little v six  
okay  
it  
oh that's great  
that's great  
that's always nice to get uh reliability in a product especially when you're spending you know anywhere from fifteen to twenty five thousand dollars for for a single item   you know  
you just don't want any hassles   with it  
you just you expect it to do its its job  
and i think a lot of a lot of car manufacturers don't really keep that into don't take that into consideration   you know  
they just expect you to buy their product  
but that's always been something that's been a key factor in me is how reliable is this car going to be   you know  
price is is an issue  
but it's not the most important issue  
right  
well i've always been a ford man myself  
yes  
but that's all right  
you know it's american made too   which is good  
um but i i've  
ever since i guess i i was growing up my dad's always had fords  
and uh well i grew up in south dakota  
so everybody has a truck  
and my ford trucks have just  
i've i've just never had problems with them  
i honestly think i would die before my truck would   keel over on me  
so  
well i guess cadillac  
i guess that's kind of everybody's dream  
oh i guess it's a general motors product  
and i like general motors because they're made in the united states  
and uh we've had general motors for years and have always had real good luck with them  
uh_huh  
oh um i think i'd still go with the cadillac  
i don't i don't care about a big fancy fancy  
oh i don't know  
i guess the seville probably or  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they have been  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
right  
yeah  
well i think the ones now with all of the uh fancy gold [lettering]   and all you know i think they're very pretty  
and course the top now the what is it a vinyl top i think those are pretty  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they are  
and uh they they're just always  
they they look like they're sturdy   you know  
they look like they're very sturdy  
and you don't have to worry that much about um getting you know hurt like you would in a small one  
oh i didn't know that  
yeah  
and i suppose they all have the balloons  
the air bags  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i do  
um i i go for things you know built in the united states rather than foreign countries  
help our economy  
and  
mostly oldsmobiles  
oh yeah  
that's what we have now  
but of course if i have a choice i'd still have the cadillac  
but uh   i've been very satisfied with the with the oldsmobiles  
we've driven them for about probably twenty years  
uh no  
the ninety eight  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so  
well i don't know  
the one we have has a six  
uh_huh  
but it's a very good car  
it's a   had not had one [minute's] problem with it  
and i've had now i have twenty three thousand miles on it  
yeah  
right  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
no  
it really isn't because now you can get like five year financing on them  
and   so um  
but i i i would go with the general motors any time  
oh really  
oh  
yeah  
well sure  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i  
yeah  
those are good products also  
um let's see  
well what kind of car uh are you thinking of buying next  
you like the chrysler products do you  
do you really  
what year is it  
and why don't you like the mustang  
i'll be darned  
well you know the old sayings about fords what they stand for  
there you go  
well uh  
well we've always uh we've always had oldsmobiles and uh been very uh happy with oldsmobiles  
but uh my wife thought she wanted to get a ford mustang  
and then she kind of changed her mind and thinks her next car ought to be one of those uh mitsubishi [eclipses]  
she   she likes uh likes those  
she has a sister that lives in uh phoenix that has one and uh really uh enjoys it  
well what uh what things do you consider when you buy a car  
i see  
yeah  
especially when you're in high traffic areas   and have to mess with that all the time  
that makes it very frustrating  
now this is a lebaron  
i sure like the uh convertible those rag top [lebarons]  
they really look sporty  
well uh we always  
this last oldsmobile we bought uh it's an eighty seven  
but we bought it in eighty eight you know right at the end of the year when they were trying to get rid of them  
and uh we found that uh we found a real good interest rate  
you know when they're trying to get rid of those cars at the end of the year like that they really come down on their prices  
and uh uh you know we looked around at used cars  
and we really couldn't uh afford the payments on a used car  
because uh if you go to the bank and try to get a loan they want to charge twelve thirteen percent you know  
and we ended up i think with like a four and a half percent interest rate on a brand new car and the payments  
well that's great  
uh_huh  
well when our kids were younger we really wanted a two door  
our first car was an oldsmobile back in seventy seven  
it was a two door cutlass supreme  
and uh it just happened that when we looked for our our new car they had a thing going with oldsmobile  
and if you'd buy a a new oldsmobile they'd give you four hundred rebate because it was their seventy fifth anniversary  
i  
yeah  
seventy fifth anniversary  
so in addition to everything else we got off the car all we had to do is show them our uh papers on our first car  
and they gave us another four hundred dollars off on it  
so we we got a four door this time  
and i sort of went more for the uh the comfort factor  
and uh i liked the smaller cars  
but i'm a bigger person  
and i i really like comfort you know driving along the road and stuff  
yeah  
and if you try to take anybody you know go to the show or go out for supper and you go as a [foursome]  
uh more than likely it's going to be a chrysler  
uh chrysler lebaron  
yeah  
it won't be a ford  
i've got a ford mustang now  
and i hate it  
yeah  
it's a eighty eight  
it's um  
i've had one problem with it after the other  
the the paints peeling off of it  
and there's no reason for it you know   fix or repair daily   or find them road dead  
that uh  
i uh  
it's  
my electrical system shorted out like two or three times  
and it's been torn up since april  
and i and luckily everything was under warranty  
so it's only costing like a hundred and forty dollars to get it fixed  
it would have been like two thousand  
those those are nice cars  
um the gas mileage for one thing  
and i've i've i've always had like stick shift  
i want to the next car i get i want it to be automatic  
i uh i i hate driving anyway  
and then and changing [gears] at stop lights and stuff is really getting on my nerves now  
yeah  
and you know when you work nine to five or eight to five and you're in rush hour traffic to and from work unfortunately  
and i look  
and one of the things with chrysler right now is is their the warranties that they have  
and i i feel like their  
everybody i've talked to that owns one has has has been real pleased with it  
and i like the the driver's air bag  
i like that  
uh yeah  
well all chrysler products has it in there  
but lebaron would be the next car i get  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i like i like that too huh  
but uh i i couldn't afford the insurance on one of those  
yeah  
well that's what i'm paying on mine now  
i had to get like a first time  
my dad's always [cosigned] on on my my loans or whatever  
and this is one when i bought  
i got my mustang this time was by myself because i got on my own or whatever  
and um i had said  
they they said it had to be like a first time buyer's car or whatever  
and they're charging me unreasonable interest  
but i've got eight more payments  
and it's paid for  
but i got it when i got it when the eighty eights first came out  
it's a it's it's a good car i mean i got in eighty seven i guess in like november or something like that  
and  
uh_huh  
well that's another big factor of mine  
next next car i get's going to be a four door too something with some room  
because i uh my mustang is is is two door with bucket seats  
and you buy groceries and stuff like that  
okay  
did they tell you our topic  
okay  
it's uh  
the topic is cars  
what kind of car will you buy next  
and what kind of decision you'd do you think about getting you know pick that car out and uh and why  
okay  
yeah  
i'm the same way  
i was uh i had two cadillacs  
i went to my first lincoln this last time  
i travel  
and uh my grandfather worked for ford motor company  
so he always said why don't you drive a ford or why don't you try a lincoln  
so i finally tried one   after fifty years  
and uh i've had i guess i guess four cadillacs and and one suburban in my last five cars  
but i bought a lincoln  
and i like it  
oh are you  
uh_huh  
well i'm a i'm a traveling salesman  
i travel on the road  
so i like a little heavier car  
but  
so that's why i choose you know to drive a heavier car   and more luxury car  
but i tell you what  
i will probably get a cadillac the next time quite honestly  
yeah  
because i like the lincoln  
but there's just something about that cadillac that whether it's a g m c product or whatever   seems they handle better  
i think so too  
yeah  
they really do  
you know i'm a funny duck  
that came it comes to the simple things like front end [alignments]  
i have never had to have a front end alignment on a cadillac  
i don't know why why   whether i just seem to drive them better or what  
but i've never had to have a front end alignment on a cadillac  
they always appear to hold well  
uh_huh  
did you  
and the only thing i miss about a cadillac is  
a [fleetwood] [brougham] was my last car  
and i traded it in traded it in on my lincoln  
and they're just not as large as before  
i do miss that  
well you're right  
yeah  
it's big  
but the trunk space for me uh  
what i usually do is i usually take the back seat out of my car  
and that's where i put my samples because [trunks] just aren't big enough  
yeah  
now i have the town car  
and it's it's a deep trunk but not as broad as the uh the cadillac  
uh_huh  
oh good  
they went all the way down  
well that's good  
that's good  
yeah  
i sell sporting goods uh hunting related items  
i sell guns gun cases   and things like that  
and i need to you know  
that's about the same size as a golf club  
they need to samples need to stretch out and gun cases and things like that  
and  
nope  
right  
yeah  
i drove mine a couple weeks ago to our one of our big national sales meetings in nashville  
i usually fly  
i drove it with another one of my guy that worked for me  
we drove it ten hours to nashville  
and it it handled real well  
but my main thing is space  
so if a continental  
i might consider it the next time  
a continental has   more trunk space  
you always have leather interiors on your cadillacs  
yeah  
i like leather interiors also  
uh_huh  
that's a nice car  
you bet  
and i'll i will say one thing about cadillacs versus  
uh no  
somebody else answered the phone and put my number in  
uh what is the topic  
okay  
uh my next car to buy probably would be a cadillac  
i've had uh  
well i'm on my third one  
and i'm not real sure that i'd be in the market for a car for quite a while  
uh_huh  
my  
my dad has been a a uh lincoln man for a lot of years  
but i've always been a g m man  
i'm in the auto parts business myself  
and uh the last cadillac i bought was an [allante]  
and i just love it to death  
i'm not sure i'd ever get rid of it  
i used to do that quite a bit myself  
yeah  
really  
they seem to put   they seem to be put together a little bit better  
and you know the buttons on the controls and things like that are a little easier to get to than ford products  
and i think that's one of the things that makes me shy away from uh imports is they put so much you know [gadgetry] on the dash  
and and the the buttons are so small   to push  
and g m doesn't seem to do that  
i kind of like that feature  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've uh i had an eldorado was my first one was an eighty  
and uh i think at about sixty thousand miles i finally had it lined up  
and i had them do all four wheels  
that's true  
yeah  
but what is big today  
you know lincoln is still as big as it always has been  
but  
you know a car i ran across recently that has a tremendously large trunk is the lincoln continental  
well the town car i noticed uh  
or with the with the continental uh i was rented one one time   uh we could uh put golf clubs in them  
you know straight across  
i mean  
front to back  
not going from side to side  
and we got three full sets in there and still had room for luggage  
i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't know if you've ever looked at a continental  
uh it's not as [peppy] as a as a town car  
because it's a v six  
but it uh  
i i drove it from here to memphis  
and i really enjoyed driving that car  
if i was going to buy a ford product that's what i would buy  
you might take a look at them  
they they had a a lot more trunk space  
as a matter of fact they had more trunk space than my uh sedan de ville had  
uh all three of mine have had leather interiors  
yeah  
uh i had a eighty eldorado which was leather  
and uh then my eighty six was a [touring] sedan  
and uh it had the gray leather package in it  
and my [allante] has uh   i guess saddle saddle colored type thing  
well uh let's see  
what type of car do i want  
well i'd like to have a corvette  
but my uh weekly wages don't apply for me to have that kind of car  
so  
uh i'm engaged to get married  
so i'll more likely get a car for economic reasons  
yeah  
and uh so uh to drive back and forth to work is all i'll need a car for pretty much  
and we have a truck  
so probably a economic size car or uh  
right now i have a eighty seven cavalier  
it's a piece of  
uh_huh  
right  
but while we're talking  
right  
right  
oh i know  
right  
that insurance does come into play  
i forgot about that  
what kind of insurance do you have up there  
or is it real high up there  
right  
right  
i mean that insurance is high dollars  
but  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
what's everybody drive up there  
i mean in wisconsin they drive them little   four [wheelers] or four wheel drive  
or do you all need four wheel drives up there because of snow and everything  
right  
it never snows down here  
so  
really  
we haven't had snow yet  
we usually only get like once a year or so  
kind of strange to you all huh  
because how  
it's like seventy degrees here right now  
yep  
how how cold is it there  
really  
huh  
really  
huh  
but um so what what is your dream car  
uh_huh  
what's your favorite color  
yeah  
blue  
right  
right  
so what kind of car do you drive right now  
really  
really  
really  
oh  
yeah  
right  
does everybody have their windows tinted up there  
everybody has tinted down here  
so you been down here before  
really  
did you like it  
yeah  
it's different   i bet huh  
right  
it's like you know  
everybody freaks out when it  
oh wow  
yeah  
right  
what kind of a car do you have now  
my car is really old too  
because uh i drive out of town a lot of the weekends  
and uh i would like my next car to have good gas mileage  
and uh same here uh  
you know a nice car american made  
and uh you know a a nice car but not too expensive  
because uh i couldn't afford like a brand new like [lamborghini]  
i hardly drive  
while we're talking my next car i'd like to be sporty and you know   nice  
but you know it's expensive  
and then insurance is really high for that too  
so   something with a that's not too sporty because of insurance then  

yeah  
uh no  
mine just got [lowered] because i just turned twenty one  
and uh i'm not sure really how much i pay  
i just  
my mom's helping me out you know because i'm a college i'm in college  
and uh so i just give her the money   and take her word for it  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
so  
and the more expensive the car the higher it is  
so   unless i win the lottery i won't be driving   anything too expensive  
i don't plan on buying a car for many many years  
so  
i have to make this one last as long as i can  
uh in kenosha  
oh it just is  
yeah  
we we have a jeep with four wheel drive because uh because of the snow you mean  
or  
well we don't have any snow here now  
it all melted  
yeah  
there is no snow at all  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
oh don't tell me that  
well actually it's been warm  
it's in the forties  
yeah  
and that's that's really warm  
uh and it's supposed to rain tomorrow  
so we  
i've only seen snow once this year  
and it was really bad  
and then it all melted like within the week  
and now there is no snow  
so  
uh i haven't really thought about it  
i'm not too big on cars  
i mean i don't know the names and stuff  
but if i were to go to a car lot and like look at them   i would pick out one that you know looked really nice  
uh for a car  
probably blue   like if it you know was just an average middle class car  
but if i were to get a sports car maybe white or red  
yeah  
uh it's a sky [hawk] buick  
eighty three  
i think  
yeah  
uh like eighty two thousand miles  
yeah  
i'm afraid it's not going to last me that long  
and i hope it does though  
it's a two door  
i like i like smaller cars  
they're  
i find them more comfortable to drive  
uh no  
i don't see too many cars tinted  
oh i'm sure  
yeah  
i could i could see why  
yep  
uh  
it was busy  
yeah  
it was nice  
i remember uh swimming on easter day  
and it was like really cold up here  
but   came back with a little tan  
so that was nice  
okay  
go ahead  
yeah  
oh well if you if you had all your all the money in the world or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what do you have now  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
we just we well i have  
my car is the first one we ever bought new too  
but we just bought another used car a couple weeks ago actually  
uh mine is a honda accord  
yeah  
i do  
and and um it's funny because after i bought it i was doing a lot of business traveling  
and i  
some of the cars that i got were like the toyota camry and the nissan maxima and some of the competitors  
and um i don't like them as well except it wasn't really a fair comparison because those were [automatics]  
and mine is a standard  
and the reason i got a standard was because i thought it handled a lot better  
it had a lot more pickup and everything  
uh_huh  
um  
usually avis  
avis  
yeah  
it's just because we're on  
i think of it  
i'm not sure those are avis or not  
but we have corporate contracts   you know with the various companies  
so it depends on your destination too  
kind of strange  
work for t i   uh_huh which is how i heard about this  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
it did huh  
oh my gosh  
oh that was great  
that's unusual to hear  
usually you know something breaks  
you look at the warranty  
and it's excluded  
oh i see  
okay  
oh you got your money's worth  
yeah  
yeah  
that is good  
yeah  
well i've been lucky  
mine hasn't had any trouble except last week a shopping cart [crashed] into it  
but i was real lucky because it just hit the um   the [lens] to the light  
it didn't actually dent the car or anything  
so it cost me twenty five bucks to replace   that  
and   the store will pay for it anyway  
so   no big deal  
um i probably wouldn't just because i already have one  
but you know if i had to make the choice again i yeah i i'm perfectly happy with what i decided   um although we did just buy another car  
and that's a legend  
um but it's it's a used one  
and um my husband has really wanted one for a long time  
and the fact that you know this this car that i have has performed so well  
and before that i also had an accord  
it was a real old one  
and uh i bought that used  
i had absolutely no money to my name and bought that  
and it served me real well too  
so he's been impressed with all the honda cars  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how did it go for you  
hasn't left you stranded  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
really  
huh  
well that's what my husband thinks about my car now that he's had the legend  
it's windy  
i can't drive that  
the legend it's just so huge  
i i don't like it  
and it's so uh  
all right  
well what kind of car would i want to buy  
i don't know  
the question is i mean would i want to buy  
or would i would i probably actually buy  
may be two different things  
if i had all the money i wanted then that's whole different matter  
no  
in that case i'd i'd i don't know  
i i my dream car for years was a was a porsche   turbo  
but uh i don't know if i'd want one of those now  
of course i would want one if somebody was   was given to me  
but i maybe would buy a b m w   uh or or even a volvo  
i've got a uh a dodge daytona  
it's actually the first car we ever bought new  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
so what car do you drive  
what is it  
uh_huh  
we almost bought one of those  
do you like it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you get a little more control over when   when it's doing the things it's doing  
yeah  
uh what what rental agent did you go to to actually rent   to rent those kind of cars  
to what avis  
really  
huh  
i guess  
i see  
uh_huh  
right  
you work for a big company then  
t i i see  
uh_huh um  
but yeah  
i i uh i don't know  
i would probably if i were to buy a car you know with the constraints of real money   i probably would would go with something like you know like a honda accord  
maybe it would  
one thing i i really liked about about the dodge daytona is the fact that they have uh this seven year warranty  
um and it really saved us some big money once  
yeah  
they had a whole bunch of things that that sort of broke at the same time  
and the bill would have been over fifteen hundred dollars  
and i had to pay twenty five for the  
yeah  
it was  
well we we bought the extended the the extension   and uh at the time we bought it it was like you know i don't know four hundred and twenty five dollars or something extra  
yeah  
we did  
but you know we really debated at the beginning  
and   of course i'm glad i did it  
but um we still have we still have like you know three years left on it  
oh no  
bumper  
oh  
well that was good  
are you  
uh_huh  
um if you were if you were going to uh buy a new car would you buy another uh another accord  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
those are nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
my sister drives one  
she drives a uh i don't know is it legend  
it's a  
i'm not certain  
but she's liked it um  
but i i have i have never had  
and we  
in fact what i'm driving right now  
we bought a we only had one car for a long time  
and   and yet most of our usage of the car was just this little shuttle back and forth   four miles to work and back   kind of thing  
and so uh i bought a used [yugo]   just to be a little you know little car that i could care less about  
oh well it's uh it's worked  
i mean that's exactly what it is you know  
it's just a it's a cheap little   little car just to go you know run around town in  
and uh it's actually kind of fun to drive  
i i  
you know getting back in the daytona now i almost don't like it you know  
it's like too too mushy  
and it you know   it's an automatic  
and  
it's too  
the steering  
you know you feel like you're in a boat or something you know  
it's kind of  
oh  
okay  
well  
all right um um well uh  
tell me about the car that you've got  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's very interesting  
i've had i've had exactly the same experience with the one that i've got  
it's a  
and surprisingly it's also an eighty four  
and uh  
yeah  
i'm still here  
um i'm sorry what  
yes  
it's an l x  
it's not a hatchback  
but it's um it's uh  
four door  
yeah  
and very very comfortable car  
big [roomy] trunk  
uh and uh and very happy with it  
and i must admit it's you know  
if if if uh  
my only consideration were were you know buying another car just to tool around town in and make you know brief trips and things like that  
i would very very seriously consider buying one uh  
i think they're extraordinarily reliable cars  
um my my real concern with uh uh why i'm not sure i want to buy a honda is because i have to make a kind of a a steady um trip down the road about once a month because i'm divorced  
and i have a daughter that lives down in north carolina  
and uh i drive   down interstate ninety five  
and it's just an absolutely wild highway  
yeah  
and  
uh_huh  
and you well you've got it  
and uh so having precious [cargo] in the car with me as you can well imagine it's very hard for me to imagine that that uh a [honda's] going to be as safe a car as as the one that i've got my eye on which is a volvo  
in in fact quite frankly i've owned a volvo in the past  
and   uh i've i've  
they're expensive cars to keep up when they need service  
but uh i've found that i've had a lot of luck with them  
uh course i'm a mechanically inclined kind of person  
and i always wind up getting under the hood and finding out all the things that you know need to be taken care of and so forth  
and i guess that's one thing that that [recommends] the honda to a lot of people is is there's just very little that you have to do under the hood  
and uh  
oh i know  
it's really amazing  
it's uh  
absolutely  
incredible  
so um yeah  
anyway i've been looking at the prices of these cars and and so forth  
and i think that it's it's very surprising some of these very expensive volvos can be gotten for a lot less money than you would think if you're   willing to buy ones that are about   the [vintage] of the cars that you and i currently own  
and um  
well certainly some of the top end ones  
you can still get get uh even the the low end [wagons] um for less than twenty thousand dollars  
and uh we get you know  
in the washington area of course being as affluent as it is there are lots and lots of volvo dealerships down here  
so there're lots and lots of them available in the paper at any any week  
and i sort of you know scan the paper and look at them and so forth  
and   so um anyway and that's that's the other thing is that i've i've never really been too terribly much of a new car person  
i think i've bought one or two new cars in my life  
and i've tended to um to uh buy cars that are you know two or three and sometimes even four and five or six years old  
this honda that i have i bought used  
and in fact it had an extraordinarily low amount of mileage on it  
i've just rolled seventy thousand miles  
and it's a seventy four i mean an eighty four  
so  
yeah  
there we are  
well i have a honda um hatchback nineteen eighty four  
and i had a hatchback a nineteen seventy eight version before this one  
and uh i'll be honest with you  
i have never found any automobile that has been more [conscientiously] constructed and and uh put together  
and it it does its job  
all i have to do on my honda is change the oil and the filter every thirty five hundred miles  
and i i did have to put two two new front tires on at fifty thousand miles  
but that car just [purrs] like the day it was built  
i get forty two miles per gallon on the highway and uh twenty eight to thirty driving around in town  
it's a five speed straight stick machine  
and i can carry more in that uh that trunk area in my little honda than i can in the big cars  
and i have a large um pontiac  
and i have a sixty nine cougar which really is i'm saving because it's it's old  
but it's in beautiful shape  
but i can carry as much in my honda or more than i can in in those other bigger cars  
oh oh  
l x  
it was an l x  
uh_huh  
yours is a four door  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
they are  
um uh_huh  
ninety five is wild in any car  
there's no doubt about that  
because i i i run over to crystal city or used to  
i'm retiring the end of this month  
but i'm very much aware of the crazy driving that goes on over there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
it just just sits there and [purrs]  
and you all you got to do is the main major thing of changing that oil and that filter  
i get six hundred miles on a tank of gas  
yeah  
beautiful beautiful machine  
is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well a brand new volvo costs what thirty thousand dollars  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
yeah  
well my my eighty four just has seventy seven on it  
and i've made many trips to washington and down to virginia beach virginia where my mother lives and things like that  
and i drive it  
uh are you presently looking uh for a used car  
just bought one  

what did you get  
lexus  
uh  
okay  
lexus is a toyota [subbrand]  
okay  
i was wondering where that came from  
because they're talking like it was an american built car  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's their big selling point uh other than general luxury  
and but the particular seems to be the uh the quiet ride  
yeah  
uh was  
that wasn't a standard feature was it  
okay  
uh  
yeah  
you get the impression that  
uh_huh  
[skidding] control  
you mean the antilock brake system  
yeah  
oh  
this is a uh   uh probably suspension tied into   the brakes  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
uh shoot  
some of these muddy [driveways] could use it around here  
no  
snow doesn't happen very often  
yeah  
uh originally i'm from west virginia  
we got a   pretty fair amount of snow  
but uh i got down here in june of eighty four  
and the first winter down here was probably the worst winter they'd seen in twenty years  
and it was amazing how a few inches of snow would turn normally sane [manly] adult men into [playful] little children  
we had this group of uh [surveyors] come into uh a shop i was working in uh four or five of them these big old flame worn [suburbans] and the snow all over the place  
they had just come in to get gas in their vehicles and get the oil checked  
but while they were there they set back drank about four or five cups of coffee apiece and made [snowmen] on the hoods of their vehicles   threw [snowballs] all over the place   had themselves a ball for about an hour  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
so that's kind of  
it's a package deal  
yeah  
ouch  
no  
it doesn't sound real necessary in texas  
yeah  
yeah  
i worked for lincoln  
yeah  
sounds like the lincoln mercury dealer i used to work for  
they didn't order anything but the extra luxury version of whatever they got  
little mercury [tracer]  
imagine or not they make a they make a luxury mercury [tracer]  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
like sitting in your living room  
adjustable  
yeah  
well as a matter of fact i just bought one  
just just within the last three weeks  
i got a lexus l s four hundred   which is made by toyota  
yeah  
it's kind of their  
right  
it it sounds like it but it really isn't  
it's uh [marketed] of course it its own dealerships  
usually or somebody that's maybe got a cadillac or lincoln and lexus dealership uh  
sometimes they do that  
but   it's uh a brand car  
but i've really liked it  
it it drives just wonderfully  
and there is  
it's so quiet almost can't tell the engine is running  
it really is  
it's got pretty good acceleration too  
it's got a c d player in it  
so i can i can play those  
and  
uh_huh  
but there is not very many options on that car  
there is only about five or six options  
everything else is standard  
uh some of the tracking control things and [skidding] control things for up north   the c d and the premium sound system  
yeah  
it's kind of a traction control i think they call it  
it's it's not just antilock brake  
i think that's already on most of them  
but   there is a further traction control uh  
yeah  
and and also the suspension can be raised for driving like in the ice and snow  
it can raise the car's center up a little bit   for going under   a lot of piled up stuff if you were up in michigan or somewhere  
mississippi probably doesn't   mississippi probably doesn't have to worry too much  
if it does people go what's this stuff  
oh  
well you had some there  
yeah  
oh i know  
oh no  
well the uh the lexus uh really  
and the moon roof i think is also an option  
although most of them are ordered them with it  
but there really is only about a half a dozen uh things  
and   everything else is pretty standard  
i did not get the traction control which also when you take the traction control and the and the suspension thing it also puts [heaters] in the front seats too  
you go out and get in that real cold car  
and you turn that on  
and it yeah and it kind of uh  
but that's only available if with the traction control and the other option  
and those two are sold together  
so you have to take a two thousand dollar option there to   to uh do it  
so i i opted not for that  
but   and uh the dealership i dealt with they order them all with the uh moon roof and uh   you know nice floor mats and everything in there  
so the only thing i had to decide on was whether i wanted a c d or not in the stereo system  
and that was pretty much it  
and they had like three or four basic packages that they   they offer  
yeah  
i've been  
i've been  
yeah  
i've seen that in the dealership  
i was driving a lincoln a mark seven   for the last four years before i traded it for this  
and uh i'm leasing the lexus  
i usually lease them   since i own a business  
i just run it through my business  
but   but it  
the lincoln ride is certainly good too but the this lexus is nothing like i have ever been in before  
it's just  
yeah  
it really is  
and it's got a [lumbar] support in the seats  
adjustable uh   power  
and just kind of brings that support up in the  
well are you in the market for a new car  
oh  
what sort of requirements to you have for your car  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
top of top of the line  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i guess i'm uh more traditional in that i don't like power windows or power locks   because the people that i know who have them always seem to have trouble with them  
and uh so i don't i just don't like anything that i can't figure out why it doesn't work  
and then i want you know good uh gas mileage  
and i want an air bag  
and uh i guess  
no  
i haven't  
have you  
somehow i just think you know i like the idea  
right  
right  
that's a good idea  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i actually i don't know a lot about different brands  
i tend to have you know my requirements like the last time i bought a car i i guess i did sort of prefer american  
and my requirements were basically you know good repair record good mileage uh  
and i needed air conditioning  
and uh can't remember what my oh  
i wanted uh stick shift and so i didn't have a whole lot of choice  
there was one car in all of the the metropolitan area that i could find that you know was sort of a medium priced car with a stick shift in it  
it it turned out to be a a chrysler uh [lancer]  
yeah  
no  
a five speed  
and it basically it was something that a military guy had ordered and hadn't picked up  
and so it had been on the lot three months  
and they were really eager to sell it  
so i guess in this area at least you know if it's not automatic it doesn't move  
well i just wanted it because again i had i guess traditionally always had a car that had one  
and i thought it would be more reliable  
uh  
i found that out  
i mean you know the people would just sort of look at me like you must be crazy when i   went in to and asked and that was a requirement  
so  
so  
well i'm not even sure all of them are anymore at least in this area  
not that i was looking for sports cars  
but now the people i've talked to don't seem to have stick shift  
and so why do you like stick shift  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and actually it's probably safer on you know at long trips because it keeps you more active  
so  

uh well yeah  
i am as a matter of fact  
well actually i'm looking for another car  
but uh uh new  
probably not  
uh sports car  
uh usually either black or red  
and electric windows and power locks  
now  
well not so much that as it is  
i've had so many times when uh uh you know i'll have a friend next to me or i see somebody uh guy broken down on the side of the road and try to lean over and roll down the window  
it is just a real pain  
or you know if i'm driving along and there's somebody next to me and uh somebody that i know and you try to talk to them   it's real difficult to drive reach over and try to roll down the window  
and uh so power locks power windows are just just things that uh just really help a lot  
what about you  
oh  
sure  
have you ever had a car with an air bag  
no  
well it it sure seems to save lives  
and  
uh yeah  
i actually i like the anti lock brakes  
and i have never had a chance to  
i have been in cars that have had them  
but i've never [tromped] on the brakes to see uh you know on ice or water just to see if they didn't lock up  
but uh you think you'd buy uh an american car or a european or japanese  
what was that  
huh  
stick shift  
huh  
did it have what a three speed or a four speed  
wow  
well actually i much prefer a stick shift  
and what i'm i'm curious  
i i know why i love a stick shift  
why why did you want one  
uh_huh  
it's hard to find stick shift cars anymore  
huh  
yeah  
no  
i mean most of the sports cars are stick shift  
huh  
huh  
uh i guess i i grew up on it and it's fun  
it's it's an enjoyable part of driving  
i do feel like i have uh more control   over the car  
and it it to me it gives me more a lot more control in snow and ice   and slick conditions  
uh it it does uh  
i don't know  
it it's really more fun than anything  
else as long as you're not stuck in heavy traffic it's fun  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh of course i like [gadgets] and and uh fun things   on the cars which are all the things course the  
let's see  
mine's pretty easy actually  
uh i just got done reading a a magazine or a couple magazine articles about the uh new saturns  
uh and although i can't afford it right now i would just like love to have one  
well  
no  
regardless of that fact  
it's the best car in the class for the cheapest amount of money  
i'm interested in having it for uh doing a little [autocross] racing uh closed circuit racing  
and uh it seems to just blow the competition away  
handling power everything  
yeah  
it just got like the top rating  
it was compared up against uh  
let's see  
there was like the mazda m x three uh [nissan's] whatever their two n x two thousand the civic s i  
and it just you know it it dominated over all of them  
everybody all the uh [raters] loved it  
i like the i like the styling  
and i seen a few of them actually race  
and they seem to be really good cars for it  
mustang g t  
uh can't afford it  
right  
yeah  
i'm a graduate student  
and let's face it  
i don't make any money  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
we'll see then  
yeah  
right now i'm stuck  
i i've got a a pontiac [sunbird] turbo that  
it's fast but [unreliable]  
and trying to get it prepared for racing  
but it's it would be nice just like scrap it and go for the saturn  
oh yeah  
i'd do it i'd use it for both  
the nice thing about [autocrossing] is you can you can do both  
uh just like a uh set up a lot of times  
and it's like really large uh parking lots   and [pylons]   and things  
tight turns hard acceleration  
i've seen a lot of [mustangs] uh compete  
and it's interesting  
they get dominated by the [corvettes] that are also in their class  
yeah  
uh what are you thinking about buying  
the legend  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i was i was actually in uh  
a lot of the b m w are produced in uh uh [stutgardt] and uh and munich  
and i was i was there this uh summer  
and uh i was really impressed by the uh the uh factory uh tours and   such for b m w  
yeah  
uh  
oh of course  
of course they are  
they want you to buy their car  
yeah  
there  
it was it was interesting  
i was at i i also went to uh the porsche  
and uh it was it was amazing how they were completely opposed  
yeah  
the uh the b m w is really oh like oh we have all these like high tech things  
and everything is put together with [exacting] tolerances  
and and then you go to porsche  
and it's like well uh these cars are completely [handmade]  
and no two of them are alike  
and  
so it's like completely opposed  
i don't know  
which do i like better  
i think i like the [porsche's] philosophy a little bit better although it's not really practical  
unless it's it's a toy  
let's face it  
yeah  
yeah  
but it it b m w good for that  
what kind of driving just like commuting you'd want to do it use it for  
wow yeah  
that's cool  
yeah  
that's good  
i also i was impressed by uh by the mercedes too  
i really i really like the mercedes  
the factory was nice  
and  
and is it different for the for the b m w  
probably  
right  
i can   imagine that  
uh_huh  
oh really  
you like uh  
so you're an american  
you want to buy american  
um  
it terms of handling uh acceleration  
what about mustang g t  
those  
so you're talking about ones in a lower lower end price range  
right  
well you can wait till you graduate  
and you'll have plenty of money  
you can buy whatever you want  
right  
would you use that for city driving and racing  
[autocrossing] is  
what kind of track is that  
okay  
and you put up set up the   track [pylons]  
okay  
oh really  
yeah  
i would guess so  
uh i think i'd like to get uh b m w or if i go the german route which i'm kind of leaning towards right now but uh or maybe a i mean a a [acura] legend   uh  
a lexus uh s c three hundred maybe   something on that order  
i haven't really determined if i like the the japanese or the if i like them enough to purchase one     you know because your b m w your german cars have good [reputations] i think  
yes  
the  
yeah  
they their they have the whole philosophy  
i mean they they kind of even [brainwash] themselves into thinking they're better   which is kind of hard to take  
i mean   as you're walking through that little tour in uh munich it's kind of they're trying to [brainwash] you too  
oh really  
um  
yeah  
that's  
no  
it's not realistic  
yeah  
if you can   afford that kind of a toy then i guess uh  
yeah  
just work  
short trips  
no no heavy mileage  
i'm putting on less than fifteen thousand miles a year  
so it's pretty minimal  
lasts a long time  
that's mainly what i'm looking for  
oh yeah  
but   but if if you have a problem with a mercedes you take it into a shop they're going to they're going to hit you up for just all kinds of things  
uh i think well something on the order of a three series it's probably different  
once you get up   in the five series and higher then all your repair costs go up significantly  
so   i'm kind  
yeah  
i'm not sure if i really want  
before the one will take  
uh okay  
let's see  
i guess uh i can start  
i'm actually we're actually trying to find one now because   our family's growing  
yeah  
uh so i'm looking at uh something larger than what we have  
we've got like an eighty four [charger] that's about gone and a uh an eighty nine horizon  
so i'm looking for something uh littler   bigger  
yeah  
uh so we were thinking mini van for a while  
and uh we're looking at uh some just four door five passenger [sedans]   as well  
uh i don't really have a preference either way i guess   you know  
it's you know it  
i guess the american cars had a bad reputation  
but   i haven't had any real substantial problems with the   ones i've had  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean   even if it's just details it seems like uh   they you know  
i  
there's a door seal that doesn't quite seal  
and you have to take it back every once in a while  
it's clearly just a a design problem there  
uh_huh  
oh like a miata or something like that  
um  
interesting  
yeah  
that's interesting  
yeah  
i guess probably the factors we'd use to compare are a little different because i look for you know size and   safety and then mileage  
probably  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think in terms of computer terminology i look at you know price performance and things like that   and then a little bit at life [expectancy] i guess  
but it you know   depends on what you what you pay initially  
but you know   i've got a hundred and twenty five thousand miles on the [charger]  
actually   it was my wife's car that she brought into the marriage  
and she got just a commute between cincinnati and dayton  
it's you know  
we we had to replace the friction plate and the transmission at thirty thousand miles  
but   uh the other ninety four thousand have been just fine   with it  
so   but uh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's interesting  
but  
yeah  
it it's hard to beat some of the  
uh like i guess in particular we're looking at a like a ninety one [corsica] uh buy back at a they say g m sponsored auction  
but i think they're obliged to have these things because [hertz] and avis and those folks have it in their contract that   they can sell it back to g m after you know it's after they've used it for six months and put   you know twelve or fifteen thousand miles   on it  
and you can get those for like eight thousand bucks if you  
yeah  
because i guess uh  
i mean well ninety [two's] granted but the new ones you know  
fourteen to sixteen is what they go for   on the lot  
so all the [depreciation] has been taken off  
and the dealer comes out okay   you know  
i don't know what kind of i don't know what g m corporate kind of hit the i don't know what kind of hit they take on it  
but sounds like everybody's had their chance to make their money off it  
and   so but uh i don't know  
we keep looking at that mini van  
it's just you know  
we can get a like a caravan   for at twelve five  
but that's a little bit more than we want to spend right now  
but uh uh it's interesting  
but uh i don't know  
if if uh it seems to be  
are you really  
uh_huh  
which are both kind of small  
uh_huh  
are you looking for an american car  
or you open to buying foreign cars  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
personally i have a japanese car right now  
and i really like it a lot  
uh i think the japanese really build good cars  
and i know that kind of rubs against the grain right now in the whole uh you know buy american keep american auto workers working right now  
but i feel that the japanese have really produced a much higher quality product than our uh car manufacturers have for a while  
if i were to buy another car i would be uh i would be partial to buying another japanese car  
but i would also look at american cars  
but when i bought the car that i bought now i did that also  
and i just felt that the japanese car was a much better product  
so if i were  
right  
right  
it is  
uh i'm kind of  
right now  
the next car i buy is going to be sort of a sports car  
i would really like to have a sports car  
uh i don't really i don't have a family  
so i don't need a a mini van or such to uh haul people around in  
so i'm looking for more a a two passenger car that uh  
well i like the miata  
but i don't like it enough to buy it  
i would buy something  
actually the the car that i really like right now is an eagle [talon] which is an american car  
but uh something along that lines  
uh because i have a an economy car right now which is okay  
but   uh i think i i'd like to move on to something a little better  
right  
right  
that's  
when i bought the car that i bought i was looking for mileage  
and i was looking for uh [dependability] and something that was going to last a long time i was that i would get a for the money that i was going to spend that i would get a return that was that was worth that money  
so  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh i've had uh i've had one or two american cars i think  
and and they were okay  
i had a pontiac once  
and and i never had a problem with it  
but uh my mother had a dodge at one point  
and i i had driven it a few times  
and i really did not feel that it that i would buy a dodge   just from  
well actually i had a uh a dodge [omni] at one point  
and that was i think what really prejudiced me against american cars was because i did not feel that it was a very quality uh car  
so i guess you'd have to say if i was looking i would definitely be looking for a foreign car  
uh_huh  
right  
which is a good deal  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
i'm sure they did  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
jonathan uh you you say it's near and dear to your heart  
buying a car is uh something you're contemplating i take it  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
wow   they get  
uh_huh  
what do you think you'll uh what kind of a car do you think you'll buy next  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think the next car we get will probably be a well  
i i like buicks  
we have a buick century now  
it's a nineteen eighty seven  
and uh whatever i get i want to have uh air bags uh both driver's and passenger side and four door because it's much more convenient if you're carrying anybody to you know rather than have them [stoop] down to get over  
so   i think the four door is probably a major requirement  
and other than that uh you know reasonable cost and safety and uh as much economy as you can get out of a car  
uh you know i'm not looking for one with a great big engine uh  
something that will carry it around careful i guess is best best way to describe it  
right now we've got a v six  
and it that seems to be just fine  
i know they they're coming out with some v eight now  
and i think that's probably a little over kill for this day and age  
uh_huh  
right  
i uh i drive a a truck a ford truck  
i i like trucks because they're [spacious]  
and it's handy to haul things  
uh it's not related to my business  
i just really use it basically for transportation  
but there's so many occasions when i've had to move some members of the family or do this or that  
and it's   it's handy to have a truck and not have to borrow one  
traction  
uh not really uh you know  
it's a two wheel drive truck  
and i figure if it's so bad that i need a four wheel drive i probably ought to be home anyway  
wow  
uh_huh  
what kind of what make is the mini van  
mazda  
i see  
right  
one of my sons has a a plymouth uh van   or you know uh uh that same type of thing the voyager i guess  
and uh they have a a child that's five years old  
and it's really handy for hauling him around and and their stuff  
and of course as he gets friends i'm sure that will be even [handier]  
so i know if we were if we had kids still at home we're in our fifties now but if we had kids still at home we'd certainly have to seriously consider a van just for their functional value  
what about uh all wheel drive  
is that something that you'd be interested in  
or is that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh [fantasizing] about  
can't do it right now  
our situation is that we're a two car family  
and i have a mini van we bought a few years ago  
it's got a uh five year loan  
so that's still got a couple years to run  
and the car i get to drive is a uh nissan sentra that's going to be ten years old next month  
so   i think   about uh [sprucing] that up in a couple years if i can  
well since i just turned forty i'm thinking about a forty year old man's car something uh something real sporty  
but uh realistically with uh the need to take the kids to school probably have to have something that uh wouldn't [wined] up putting their knees this their throat when they sat in the back seat  
something a little [seating] room  
how about you  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
i was surprised to hear that the v eights are coming back  
so they've got some pretty powerful sixes  
and uh you know v eights seem to be a return to the days of you know ten or twelve miles a gallon  
sure  
is uh traction much of an issue for you up there  
actually uh pretty good way of looking at it  
yeah  
we uh we had a small accident with our mini van   a few years ago  
a case where there was a sort of freak ice storm  
and we weren't aware of it and just slipped on some black ice and went into another car  
and this is a rear wheel drive model  
so we got some monster [studded] snow tires after that  
haven't had any problems since  
it's a mazda  
and uh we're pleased with it in terms of comfort and uh [driveability]  
fuel economy isn't great being a mini van  
but uh it's real nice for carrying around our kids and others  
and   it's uh got some nice features in terms of being able to remove seats and flip them around  
so we've been able to do some real creative uh load hauling when called upon  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i think that we're going to be uh owning a mini van for some years to come  
probably till the kids are out of uh high school anyway  
uh i'd be satisfied with a a good front wheel drive car when it comes time to replace the sentra  
and even as as light as that is with uh the small tires it's it's done pretty well   in winter  
uh again like you if conditions are are that bad i probably don't want to be driving anyway  
so i know i'd be happy with a a reasonable uh four door  
you know again we've we've got the same issue with getting kids into the  
so have you heard about saturns  
ooh that's great  
actually that's kind of the type of car that i i'm thinking about we might get  
saturns you can't go to a dealer unless you go to a a saturn dealer   this this [offshoot] of g m  
and uh supposedly they've got great customer satisfaction from what things i've heard  
well like what  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've got a sixty five mustang  
and   i and i do the work on most of the work on that myself  
and when i look at modern cars and stuff like that i just say i will never do that with the modern cars  
it's not worth my time  
you can't get in there  
you can't do anything  
and it's so complicated too  
i look at it  
and i say boy you know  
i i'd have to almost go take a class or something like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's one of the things that my wife and i have thought about  
actually the car one of the cars we'd most like to get would be the new ninety one ford taurus cause they're actually one of the cheaper cars that have dual   side air bags  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
ninety  
yeah  
or excuse me the ninety twos  
the   ninety twos had dual air bags  
this newest model  
you could   get them with [duals]  
yeah  
but the thing is that it's twenty thousand dollars  
actually my my wife and i are actually thinking contemplating buying a new car in the next year and a half or so  
so we're actually   been looking around and thinking about things  
we'd like to get like a  
oh i don't know  
what do you call it  
a dealer return type thing on a ninety two and ninety three or something like that you know  
year old ninety two or something like that  
see if we  
and the other thing we're looking at is the saturns too  
because they looked really nice  
well the saturns you can get air bags in them  
i don't think you can get dual side air bags  
but one of the the two things that i'm really  
the the i'd say the most important thing is a car that's not going to fall apart that doesn't have problems  
you set down  
you look at consumer reports  
we've been pouring over consumer reports  
and you just get so depressed for the u s auto   makers when you do that  
because you see the reliability and the types of problems they have  
and and the two cars that apparently are close to that that actually have high reliability the taurus is one of the highest u s cars  
and the other one is are the saturns  
so those two things  
and then you know we kind of want a four door  
i've heard some about saturns  
i don't know a lot about them  
i haven't been over uh to a dealer to look at them although i did see something in tonight's paper that said that their uh reliability is rated to be equal to that of the i guess the japanese cars  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um yeah  
i've heard a lot of people like them  
uh yet i don't know whether i would buy saturn or not at this point  
i'm kind of  
my card and uh desires tend to be pretty picky  
and so uh  
well let's see  
i i like cars that are designed with with human beings in mind  
and that's not just the driver and the passenger  
but that's the person who's working on it  
cause i do almost all my own maintenance and uh   those types of things  
and i found that while you can find some cars that are comfortable to ride in uh finding a car anymore that's that's fairly easy for me to work on it's just not very it's not very  
almost unlikely at this point  
and uh  
ooh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i've got an eighty three saab  
and i find that for a normal you know everyday things it's really very easy to work on  
and so uh you know i'm kind of spoiled  
i used to have a chevy  
with a three fifty in it  
and uh i really liked working on it uh cause it was pretty easy too  
it was about a nineteen seventy  
so i'm kind of uh biased in that  
and you know i want a car that i can work on because i think it just costs too much even to get the oil changed anymore  
and that's kind of that's that's probably one thing i'd look at  
i think another thing i'd look at is safety  
huh  
that's a real nice car i think  
i've driven some uh [tauruses] over the last couple of years when i've been on business trips   uh as rental cars  
and i've always been very impressed with the taurus  
it's a really nice car  
i think it's very it's a stylish car both inside and out  
it's comfortable to drive  
uh reasonable performance  
and this is out in california where where they don't make a car that's got reasonable performance anymore  
uh i've been real impressed with that  

and i didn't realize that they were putting dual uh air bags in that car now  
uh_huh  
oh i think that   that's excellent  
that's excellent because  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
those are  
yeah  
that that would be a good deal to go with  
okay  
uh_huh  
what do you what do you looking for in in those  
what what attracts you to the saturns  
or or of course we've already talked you know  
the taurus is safe  
but what kind of things are you looking for  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
well actually i love the car i have  
i have a chrysler lebaron convertible  
and   i love it  
and i would get another one in a minute  
unless i could afford what i really like which would be a red ferrari or you know a little corvette or something like that  
and that's what would influence my decision to change because i like a really sporty car  
and i'd love an expensive one  
but i probably   can never afford it  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'm a nurse here  
and we have a doctor at this hospital that has a beautiful new red ferrari  
and i couldn't tell you  
but it's just beautiful  
and i go out and i love to touch it  
but i can't even do that because of the alarm  
so i just look at it a lot  
really  
exactly  
but it sure is a pretty thing  
no  
i'm working on it  
no  
i really haven't  
no  
huh_uh  
i did   test drive a corvette last year maybe the year before  
it was brand new white  
it was like a big [marshmallow]  
when you sat in the seats they adjusted to fit around you  
i mean they came in and up and out  
and i mean they did whatever  
and and we went for a test drive in that  
and i was able to open that up pretty good  
and that was really fun  
and i wanted it  
but i had a choice of that or my house  
and i thought that i'd continue   to live in my house  
so  
yeah  
you know it's just necessary  
and i did i thought well a tent wouldn't be bad but probably not practical  
yeah  
right  
so  
they are they're pretty aren't they lately  
they really are  
really  
oh no  
no  
no  
see i'm not into station [wagons] and vans and things that people are really buying now  
and they go isn't that a nice van  
and i go um  
not really you know  
how about   a [greyhound] bus  
yeah  
i mean that you know  
there's some that are prettier than others  
and  
yeah  
the new type is prettier than what their they used to look like  
but i sure don't think it's attractive you know  
it's not like like driving a little sports car  
yeah  
i don't think that happens  
so but i i love mine  
so and i i bought it because i drove a friend's in hawaii  
and i just went home  
and i walked in  
and i picked it out  
and he said take it home and bring it back if you want to  
and i never did  
i just went back and signed the papers  
and i knew nothing about my car when i got it  
nothing  
i didn't know how anything worked  
yeah  
and i've had it  
it's almost three years actually  
and i've i still love it  
i put the top down everywhere i go  
i [timed] it when i first got it  
and it took twenty i mean twenty seconds  
and so i figured there was nowhere i was to late to go that i didn't have twenty more seconds  
so  
twenty seconds  
yeah  
that's all it takes  
i mean it's just a button that's it  
you   release it right at the top  
so you don't have to   get out or anything  
well i did actually  
last week going to the airport  
i just hit a [downpour]  
and i was on a highway going like eighty  
so i really did  
i mean i was soaking wet  
i thought i would drown in the seconds that it took me to pull over  
but it all dried out you know didn't   take long when the sun came out  
but it was kind of funny  
i'm sure people around me really enjoyed it  
but  
oh  
and wasn't it pretty last week with the bluebonnets and everything  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
a lot of people say that  
and it's pretty far from where i live  
so what sort of car are you interested in getting next  
ah  
uh well i understand and can sympathize with that because i also enjoy driving performance automobiles  
uh i currently have an eighty seven five liter mustang g t   that i've done a bunch of [modifications] to to make it uh handle and perform better  
and i suspect if i were to be able to get another car where object was uh  
the best car i could get regardless of money uh i probably would be tempted by something along the lines of a lotus or possibly a ferrari  
a a three twenty eight g t s  
you just go hunting  
go out and [lust] after it  
so have you had the opportunity to drive a ferrari  

uh  
yeah  
there there's something about having a place to live  
i don't know  
could sleep in the back of the ['vette]  
i find that uh that the [corvettes] are are becoming really really nice cars  
yeah  
and   they they've improved   the performance and the suspension such that they're actually a lot of fun to drive  
it's not like driving a a winnebago or something  
nice  
yeah  
nice isn't the word i'd choose  
maybe practical  
isn't that a practical van  
yeah  
it it's very hard to find something practical that's also attractive  
well so it was a completely new experience for you  
and i'm sure you enjoyed every minute of it  
right  
and and you couldn't get  
how long does it take to go back up about the same time  
yeah  
so  
so you won't get  
yeah  
and twenty seconds you probably won't get caught in anything too substantial  
whoops  
yeah  
oh no i was just down in austin last week  
and the weather was pretty nice too  
so  
with the bluebonnets out  
yeah  
it really was  
yeah  
i decided that austin is certainly someplace that i could handle living  
uh i have a ford pickup  
and uh the family car is a uh a dodge caravan   and uh because we have three kids and they're under thirteen  
so uh  
they sort of fit our requirement  
yeah  
i have a one of those uh pickups with the uh seat   with a seat in the back  
and so they just fit in there  
when they get to be teenagers with long legs it may not work  
right now i can right now i can throw them all in the back when we have room  
and uh   and since i do a lot of projects i throw things in the back  
and i kind of like having a pickup truck  
actually i think of it as a as a car that'll last  
i like the way trucks are built  
and i don't care about comfort  
so i'm pretty happy  
so i wouldn't hesitate to get another one  
i i never buy new  
so i wouldn't hesitate to get another used truck  
and uh yeah  
i don't i don't need to pay for the glitz  
i'll   let somebody else uh have the [showroom] shine  
and i'll pay for the rest of it  
right  
and uh the van we're  
we might go again on a on a van  
we we could probably do with a a something just a little bit larger than a compact in a sedan next time  
i'm not sure  
we have to we we'll have to face it in a couple of years  
but uh   i i guess we had a small toyota wagon  
and we were real happy with that because uh my my second requirement after price is uh low maintenance  
and uh it certainly had that  
we didn't do much to it at all  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh-oh  
how  
at how   at how many miles  
huh  
you didn't [overheat] it  
uh_huh  
huh  
well that was  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have one [colleague] that uh [commutes] to work on one when it's not raining  
and uh uh he's a  
it's  
he's pretty conservative guy  
i don't think it's much of a sport for him i guess uh  
i'm sure he does  
yeah  
no  
yeah  
uh  
yeah  
right  
if i only had some place that i could store the uh camper top i would have it off most of the time  
i really leave it on there just for just to have it out of the way because you put it on the ground it gets dirty  
but uh they're solid  
uh trucks are built uh i mean  
they're the only things americans still know how to build  
and uh  
yeah  
right  
i   i kind of like mine  
yeah  
so mine's a ford  
oh i heard about that  
yes  
yeah  
that that's a serious truck  
right  
this uh  
i i know a contractor who just got one of those  
he's pleased with it  
i don't know what you drive now  
i mean what do you drive now  
oh okay  
throw them in the back  
cab  
oh yeah  
yeah  
there you go  
yeah  

right  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
you're looking at  
i got a toyota four runner  
i wanted a truck that i i wanted something that i could throw people in the back too  
so i got a four runner  
you're just like me  
i've never bought a new vehicle in my life  
no  
let somebody else break it in  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
my my  
pretty much the same  
i i got a like i say i got one of those toyota four runners  
and uh it pretty much does everything i need it to  
i mean it it'll tow three thousand pounds  
so i can tow everything  
and it  
i can throw  
i've had eleven people in it before   believe it or not  
and uh it's real reliable  

i i mean i've had it for almost four years now  
and up until oh say two weeks ago it had never had anything wrong with it  
and then of course two weeks ago   it decided  
i don't know  
it's the strangest weirdest thing in the world  
but it blew a head gasket  
didn't do any damage to it  
uh i caught   it real early  
uh-oh ninety seven   thousand  
so it's not real early  
no  
never [overheated] it  
i smell i smelled the uh i smelled the [coolant]  
went out and looked  
saw it was saw where it was coming from  
drove it right to the shop and left it off  
and that was it  
because i i have that  
and then i have a a [kawasaki] motorcycle   which is actually the usually my preferred mode of transportation if i can take it and it's not raining  
i mean that's that's sort of my   hobby though more than a vehicle  
it it's a  
i don't know  
people who buy motorcycles for transportation i think are kidding themselves  
i know  
but i bet you he really enjoys riding it  
yeah  
so you know  

when was the last time you took out took your truck out just to just to go driving  
yeah  
and i go out twice a week on the bike so   at least just for   the enjoyment  
but yeah  
i i mean the only thing i think i might get a new car or not necessarily a new car but a another car  
uh i would consider going to a a non to a normal pickup rather than a a covered pickup like the one i've got just because there's a lot of times i wished i had just an open bed to throw stuff in  
i'm sure i'm sure that that's very  
i mean you got one  
it's that's really convenient to be able to throw that sort of stuff in the back  
and  
right  
to have it out of the way  
right  
i think they last a lot longer than anything else  
yeah  
yeah  
the trucks do  
uh even though you know the [jap] the little [jap] trucks are are good there too  
but so are the  
though i think the chevies  
i don't think the  
i don't like the chevies as much as i like the fords  
i think they i think the fords tend to last a little longer   at least until recently  
a friend of mine just bought bought like a year ago it it's a really nice truck  
i mean i don't like [dodges] at all  
but one of the [dodges] they have out now has a uh the [cummins] turbo diesel on it  
oh it's beautiful  
that thing that thing will last forever i mean  
oh yeah  
that thing's uh  
it's got a boat engine in it  
uh_huh  
an interesting topic  
uh_huh  
ah  
boy   you and my husband would have a whole lot in common  
uh_huh  
oh really  
what's the  
how old is your car  
oh  
yeah  
right  
oh  
yeah  
so what do the [miatas] run  
well that's not too bad  
yeah  
really  
i've never driven one  
huh  
uh_huh  
and so you've done this  
oh  
okay  
oh  
really  
yeah  
whatever my husband buys  
oh not too much  
no  
we uh we just got rid of a full conversion van that that i i that wasn't me  
that was my husband  
he wanted a van  
and he wanted to drive that van and travel and wanted everything in there t v you know the whole bit  
but i never drove it  
so it just it wasn't me you know  
and then   oh i'd want a minivan  
because i'm with the kids all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
and  
yeah  
you pick up   i pick up my little one from preschool  
and the whole parking [lot's] full of minivans  
but you know i i drive a little subaru  
and uh we i love that  
i  
we were going to trade that in for the van  
but i just wanted to hold on to it cause i just really enjoy that  
and uh that's really all i needed was for something just to go here and there and back  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
it's amazing what a minivan can do  
we went camping this past weekend with some friends that had a minivan   and pulled the uh the little trailer behind  
the pop up trailer  
and uh it's  
so it's really amazing how much a minivan you know what it can do  
no  
they're not  
they're probably  
yeah  
yeah  
and we we do a lot of uh driving  
we do a lot of traveling   by car  
and so that's the only time that the that the uh conversion van came in handy  
but it really didn't cause our our kids are still little  
so uh that was the only time we really needed it  
other than that it got terrible mileage  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  

yes  
the uh type of cars that i was uh i would be most interested in if i was going to buy another car now would probably be something like a uh mazda miata  
uh the uh  
i'm very much a a fan of sports cars  
the  
the uh  
uh uh though actually in  
actually if i  
i have  
i've avoided buying a new car for quite some time  
i'd rather put my money into uh   restoring my old cars  
i have a old [triumph] t r six  
and uh uh so uh  
but if i was to buy one probably something like a miata  
it's certainly  

i wouldn't have to worry about it breaking down all the time  
yeah  
uh well i have a i have a nineteen eighty uh eighty five c r x  
uh which is you know it's  
it still works fine  
but it's it's actually it's kind of annoying cause i've got no reason to replace it  
but uh   oh those are  
they're about uh uh thirteen to fourteen thousand dollars and you know a bit more if you add some some options and so on  
but   the  
uh yeah  
that's a pretty good price  
and   they're they're they're they're so nice to drive  
uh uh it's it's it's nice  
they're  
i've been down to a dealer and driven them  
and i've also driven one at a something mazda put on where uh they went to uh [autocross] events across the country uh which is where you race in uh you race on in a parking lot or something like that with a bunch of uh cones to see who can get through the fastest  
uh you know about a minute or so   and uh very [twisty] stuff  
and oh it handles so nicely  
yeah  
yeah  
it was just  
it it's just so smooth  
and  
yeah  
nice car  
what are you interested in  
yeah  
you you don't get involved in uh car decisions  
yeah  
i can understand  
well would   you want if you had to decide what would you want   okay  
yeah  
they're nice  
oh yeah  
that's   perfect for that  
it's not  
it it's small enough that it's easy to drive  
holds a lot  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
minivans are nice  
i have a friend who has a minivan  
and uh i've driven it a few times  
and uh it's nice  
it's nice  
of course you know my my family has always had cars like that uh in that you know my father's had a had a always had a v w bus every since uh   nine about nineteen sixty or so  
uh uh  
they well  
he he used it  
he often has to transport plants or uh things   like that cause he's he goes to orchid shows and and you know fills the car with plants and so on  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and they're not that expensive  
yeah  
mainly because everyone makes them you know  
you can take your choice of how expensive you want it to be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
minivans do pretty well   you know twenty twenty twenty five miles per gallon or more  
some of them probably even do thirty  
the uh  
yeah  
there there's some other cars i'd like  
but i i would never be willing to send quite that much money for uh like uh uh  
i'll drool over them  
okay
it says what kind of car would you buy next
what kind of car would you buy next
yeah
a lot of people you going to buy one of those mini vans
or you going to buy a full size
was the gas mileage decent
or
oh that's not bad
well
oh i've never i've really never had a new car
i mean i'm pretty young
so but a lot of people they go out and buy new cars
you know i've i've been for ten years
so i i have enough money to go out and buy a new one
but instead i go out and buy toys and things
oh
uh but see my situation's really different because i always had an older brother that always worked on cars
and he got into business
and he only worked on one kind of car
yeah
and what happened is he his he had a business and they and they bought a lot of cars a lot of the same kind of cars what ended up he eventually had his own private junkyard which is terrible to look at
very illegal
but it was very cheap for us to run our cars because pretty much everyone in the family and there's seven of us kids would have one
i mean me and my husband have the same kind of car
my brother and his wife drive the same kind of car
my sister has the same kind of car and my father has the same kind
so it's you know when we get together and go places
and we meet places
it's like gee you guys don't like one kind of car do you
it's a very strange car i don't know if you have them down there
but it's a saab
yeah
they're not that popular down south
i don't i maybe it's something to do with the front wheel drive
and they're supposed to be good in snow
but they're very popular up here in vermont
and a lot of people used to bring his car their cars to him to get them fixed because he was he was really good at it
and uh he he didn't charge as much as the dealer
so
and he also was really nice to people
and he'd help them out a lot if they were broke down he'd try to go fix their car on the road instead of calling the tow truck
so that saved them a lot of money
yeah
i've heard that that's a really good way to get cars up here they only come around like once a year in the summertime they have a state auction
but but they don't uh they don't [repossess] that many cars up here figure in a big metropolitan area there would be a lot of uh where they they uh take their cars for illegal activities
you know
it
can imagine you have a good you have you could have a good uh choice of cars
but then of course there is more people interested in them too
i don't know
but i know someone who goes to massachusetts and buys cars that have been wrecked or uh [salvaged] they they might have been stolen
and and the insurance company buys them
and they sell them
and i've known people who have got really nice late model cars for cheap
but but they have a [dubious] background they have [salvage] [stamped] on their title there's
there one of my friends got one that the the whole underneath of the car the frame was twisted and they didn't really know it was a real nice late model car real pretty on the outside
but they couldn't keep tires on it it kept eating the tires
yep
i know a lot of people who have [boughten] other cars the same way
and and have done very well
i mean i the my car that i drive came out of uh a [salvage] yard
but see it wasn't uh wasn't in an accident it had burned the whole inside of it burned the wire and cable burned
and of course my brother being the clever person
he was had an identical car
but it had been in an accident
so we took the wiring [harness] out and the engine
and the transmission and everything else
and we put it into the the the shell that was burned we had the shell all [sandblasted] and painted
and he pretty much built me a car
so
yeah
i was i was pretty happy i got what i pretty much wanted
i could have it any color i wanted
that's true
but you know i always thought american cars weren't any good
but i uh rented a car
i rented a ford taurus
and i was impressed
i really liked it
yeah
and uh i was talking to my older sister the other day
and uh she said she had to get a new car
and they were thinking of getting something big enough she's got two teenage kids and they go camping a lot
and she was thinking of getting a ford taurus wagon
she says they're not very pretty
but like she was really impressed
but i like them a lot because they resembled the saab when i got inside the door was big you know it wasn't it wasn't like a volkswagen rabbit
you know i i mean it had a full size door handle on it
and it was the interior was very [plush] and padded and it it was just i liked the car a lot
and when you shut the door it made a real solid sound
and the performance it you know it it you could make it do anything on the interstate you wanted
so i was really impressed
because if i if i didn't have if i didn't buy uh used [saabs] you know if i didn't have a father and a brother that help me out
i would even think about buying something like a ford taurus as opposed to a volkswagen rabbit or a toyota
but that's one thing about cars
my husband wants a toyota pick up truck
and i can't talk him into a dodge pick up truck
or a chevy pick up truck he wants a toyota pick up truck and they are they're very popular
and i guess they run
they they you
they just keep running and running and running they have a really good track record
yeah
i know this this person
they go they have this old toyota truck
and he goes yep
i says you know this thing's been running for me for two years
he goes boy i wish i had the money to treat it
right
i'm uh what do you you mean he oh i haven't tuned it up in two years
and i change the oil about every four months because he can't afford to uh change the oil as often as he would like
and he can't afford to tune it up
so it it's amazing
even when you abuse them
all the time
well i i have problems with my car
i'm not saying it's not perfect or anything
but i wouldn't trade my saab for anything
i
yeah
it's a [swedish] car
i'm just being stupid and [sentimental] it's just because it's about the only kind of car i've ever had i had a volvo
once you know it's like if i had to go out if i to buy a truck i could i could go out and easily buy a truck
but i'd have a hard time going out and buying another car
if it wasn't a saab
i don't know
uh it was it was fine
but it was an old one
and uh it was pretty much it or was something that i bought to resell because it was really uh it was a nice old volvo
and at that time i was going to college and i liked to go camping
and [bajaing] and going up dirt roads and i was ruining the car
so i sold it
and i saved some money by buying a [junkier] saab that
i could beat around
so it worked out pretty well i've never had problems really getting getting cars
it's it's [refusing] them because uh people always come to my father and brother and try to sell their old cars to them because they know that they deal and sell them
so
yes
my father's very [shrewd] with them
yeah
that's a good way to do it uh the thing about it is
you got to you got to like to work on cars to be a mechanic
if you want to be involved and that's a hard job
well i you know i always dream of buying a new car
but i just the money just isn't worth that that [shininess]
yeah
i just bought one
so
yeah
guess so
uh mazda
uh price basically
price
and uh what all the things
it came with for the price i couldn't beat it
uh i didn't really look at american cars uh had a couple bad experiences with american cars
just not holding up
so uh my last car was a foreign foreign made car
and it held up real well
and the car before that was american and it fell apart
so i just decided to go foreign really
really
well it comes to trucks though i would probably think to go american because everybody i know has got a american made truck
they just seemed to be more rugged but uh the cars just seem to fall apart
get out there and test drive
yeah
right
i don't know how much going to how much better you're going to get with a blazer there
really
oh that's not so bad then
right
yeah
i don't know
i haven't been in the
now ones you know they look big on the road some of these uh
yeah
yeah
[durability] yeah
if you got to take it out in the field
yeah
they show them jumping over those ramps
but hey
yeah
right
oh about uh twenty six twenty seven in the city
it's a it's a four cylinder
and it's kind of a sports [coupe] guess a little sports car
but it does pretty good
huh
yeah
i haven't even had a chance
i've only had it for about three months
i haven't had a chance to take it out on the road
i'll probably be heading down your way in uh-oh the end of may end of april
i guess when school's out
i'll have to keep that in mind because uh
[roundrock] and where georgetown oh uh
yeah
i wanted to get a mustang i wanted to get a convertible
but the [convertibles] you know they tack on an extra five six grand
and it's like i can't see paying that for a for just being able to take the roof down
yeah
yeah
it's like i got
and plus the way crime is going around here in the city you know take a knife to it break in
yeah
i'm sure they're
yeah
and you tack on the insurance they can add to it because insurance
yeah
i had a friend that rolled a convertible not too long ago it was a b m w totaled the car
he walked out of it though
all right
i got a meeting to get to
so
great
uh_huh
a mark seven
uh what do mark [sevens] usually run
thirty five k
well that's a tremendous amount of money alright
i see
i agree that uh american cars should be the ones to be bought um i just wish there were to still improve further oh
yes
it's a matter of time
it's probably going to be another two to five years before they're really up to par where they should be
and then i believe the majority of american people will
yeah
they will already have in fact i have one myself
i'm reluctant to admit she does
honda accord
that's one
what year model is it
eighty nine
well that's fairly new mine is an eighty four sentra and the only problem i've ever experienced major type problem i've experienced is a a fuel pump had to be replaced and it's got eighty four thousand no
it's got eighty nine thousand miles on it now
you do
no major [malfunctions] then
i see
well that's good to hear
in consumer digest or a consumer reports
a taurus
uh_huh
well that's not too bad in price
it has an eight cylinder
oh yeah
correct
what about stressed on the mini van
i mean the mini van has been one of the best top of the line vehicles for chrysler isn't it
um their [durability] is a lot better
i understand than most other vans
right
there's a lot of [duplicity] in the vehicles the way the build them too
insofar as their design um uh american even foreign i'm sure it's all for streamlining or for air streamlining right
yeah
just a second you going to pick them up
excuse me for a moment
right
i'm fixing to get them right now
excuse me i had to uh talk to my boss
okay
so i guess we have nothing to do on the other end there's no interruptions here to tell us what we're done
oh really
what kind of car do you have
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
yeah
me too many many cars i'd like to have too
i bought a car around the same time in eighty eight
and it was a um a toyota [corolla] and um i like it pretty well except it's not real comfortable it doesn't give a comfortable ride
you know it's a cheaper car
and it gives a cheaper ride and it's not the luxury car
so if i bought one i'd probably want something like a new maxima yes
really
rides and you don't hear wind noise and all that
uh_huh
yeah
really
yeah
well i'm almost convinced that you pay for what you get because my car in eighty eight was like ten thousand five hundred dollars
and it was okay
when i bought it you know it was great running around town
it's a great little run around town car because i get good gas mileage
but when you're out on the road on a trip like my parents live like five hundred miles away
you are exhausted
by the time you get there
yeah
because it's just the seats aren't real soft and comfortable and there's only so many positions you can get in and your body gets tired plus you hear the road noise a lot
so
uh_huh
oh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
it did you buy it here in dallas
uh_huh
well
oh really
well that means a lot
uh_huh
yeah
got to see them all the time
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well um like how many have you had any major repairs or anything
you've had to do to it because you know my car's about same age as yours
and i've been lucky
i haven't had any major anything happen
uh_huh
right
yeah
because you have to get back and forth
yeah
yeah
well that sounds good
because you know hyundai is a fairly new car
compared to you know ford and everybody
so i i didn't know anyone that had one that's good to hear
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
oh uh_huh
that's about what i have thirty two or thirty four i can't remember
i just turned over
one one or the other
yeah
luckily my husband is real good at that
and he knows how
and he changes it regularly and gives it tune ups you know replaces the spark plugs and uh i know
yeah
i bet the sun roof is great
that is something i would really want if you know if i bought a new car i would want a sun roof
uh_huh
oh i see
yeah
well that's good
oh yeah
i think i would too
because you know even i have to drive seventy five every day
i do i drive seventy five every day
so i would i would still you know in plano
right
i come down seventy five and then i have to come up in five o'clock traffic you know the dallas site expressway there at seventy five and six thirty five
uh s c
uh_huh
yeah
so you're in dallas
yeah
oh yeah
that'd be the only way
uh_huh
about how many miles is that
twenty miles one way
yeah
see i have about twenty five round trip is what it is about twenty five miles a day
yeah
i still want that sun roof though
that'd be good
uh_huh
hyundai um
oh yeah
yeah
oh i just had a friend buy one and he loves it
he does
it's convertible he puts that top down and it's just a fun car
oh yeah
they are
i couldn't believe what he paid for it
it was like sixteen thousand dollars
you know and hear i am thinking this car is smaller than my car
no
not really
i mean it's you know the seats are typical volkswagen seats
the vinyl you know
i know
but that car is so expensive
but you know talking to my husband and he was real impressed with the car the motor and everything in it is just fabulous supposedly it's one of the best built cars
uh_huh
yes
and [kharman] [ghia] it was the little sports car
on really
those are the best supposedly the best built cars
so the little volkswagen he has he's loving it well
i know i know
yeah
i i can just see parking it at t i you know and then somebody
right
right
it'd be gone in a week
um
oh
and it just ruins you too
you just makes you sick
and then you have insurance you know goes up and
well i drive a pickup truck
and uh
that's probably true
it it's a small pickup truck though it's one of those isuzu uh space cab types with a [sunroof] so it's actually not a real pickup truck you know
it's uh it's got nice bucket seats
so it's very comfortable
and uh it has uh with the space cab in the back
i can carry some storage
but i have to admit fred i i've never had a gun rack back there
so i probably wouldn't fit in texas
no no nothing like that
it
my
it's pretty [preppy] i think uh
my truck sort of puts me as a uh as a baltimore baltimore [suburbanite] i think is more you know
i uh when i bought the truck
i was going to buy a boat
and i needed something that would be able to haul a small boat
but then i i um i because i wanted to try water skiing and enjoying some water sports and things
and that's one reason why i bought it
but then right after i bought the truck i broke my foot
and i and the doctor said because of the type of physical therapy i got no [sideward] movement you know for a couple of months
and that meant the whole uh water skiing you know uh season was over
so i thought well okay
and then by the the next year i was thinking about doing it again
but i invested the money in a house you know
so little more sound investment
yes
so so then i still have this pickup truck and then i think well now maybe i'll you know go by the boat again
yeah
that
so that's
so i'm not ever going to going to own a boat
oh yeah
i love my truck
in fact uh well my wife and i [contemplate] selling both of us owned pickup trucks actually when we got married
so we now we're a two pickup truck family
uh hers in some ways is is a little more convenient
and then mine's convenient other ways
so it's hard to decide she has a a cap on the back and and uh she has um uh roof racks so we were able to carry things on the roof and able to put things in the back of her truck
without them ever worrying about them getting wet or whatever
but with mine
see i have a space cab so you can put like luggage immediately behind the seats
and i also have bucket seats and air conditioning
i think family
um i do a little bit
but surprisingly i have uh two of my brothers since i bought my isuzu pickup two of my brothers have bought uh isuzu [troopers] which actually you know can open the back and just take out your back seat and you can haul washers and dryers and almost anything in them
so i think um i used to be the one that was called
but now everybody owns one themselves you know i do have some friends every once in a while
that will ask me
and i'll i'll of course do that you know that doesn't matter
it's for a friend you'd do it anyway
so it doesn't really matter
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
what type of car do you drive fred uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
they're nice looking
i like them
oh really
oh gee
uh_huh
yeah
so but your wife drives a mercury [topaz] they're nice too
uh_huh
yeah
so you've gone yeah
back to visit family
have you driven back to visit family in indiana
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh that's really good
uh_huh
yeah
is uh gas mileage an important reason why you buy the cars you do
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i i take it you don't have you don't have kids then
because if you had if you had kids you wouldn't say anything about sportier looking you'd be saying things like it has a good back seat uh the car seat fits in very easily
and we can seat belt it in [securely] it's that's a big difference in conversations there
no
we well we're just recently married in december
uh but that's
we we laugh
now my wife says we should sell my truck
and i say we should sell hers
and i said well the reason why we should sell yours laura is see mine has the space cab and it actually has little drop seats in the space area
with seat belts i said
and we can seat [buckle] in a car seat there
so we should get rid of yours because the three of us won't be able to go on trips i said but we can go on trips in mine you know we can travel anywhere with my truck
so that's uh you know we i laugh about that
uh_huh
yeah
we haven't either
well the ford ones
yeah
i think uh i think ford was one of the first ones to step into that new um that new almost shuttle space shuttle like appearance and i think they've done they've really come on strong with some of that um uh wind resistance and energy saving and uh uh developments i think that that's their station wagon
i think those are fords
but i do i like those
yeah
now now the station wagon looks [sleek] it looks yeah
and hopefully i think you know it's supposed to get better gas mileage and um i think that that's becoming an important thing too
my wife and i've been discussing this you know looking for a car when we do get rid of one of the trucks we'll probably look for a car that gets good gas mileage
just because um it just has become such an important thing i think for the environment and for the economy and everything you know to start to pay attention to that more and more so
no
i think i think the reason why i i bought the isuzu is because you know i looked almost all the small trucks are made by japanese anyway
there's only a couple of them like i looked the first place
i went were the were dodge chrysler plymouth and you know i went to a number of them
and i priced them all out and i was just the the
i was almost going to buy a um a chrysler which was actually a mitsubishi truck
but the salesman insulted me
um the guy the salesman you know they always do that deal with you
where they say well i got to go talk to my manager
well here the manager is actually the guy that owns the place
and in this small town
we live on
he's always on t v
and he comes out of his office and i asked him for
i i said well you know it was like maybe eighty three hundred dollars for this truck
and i said well i i'd like it for eight thousand dollars
i said for eight thousand dollars i'll you know i'll write out the down payment now
i can get financing through my credit because i'd checked about financing and everything you know
i said i'll for eight thousand dollars i'll take it you know because it was sort of marked down you know
and the and the guy came out of the back and insulted me he said he said you want a truck for under eight thousand dollars go back to the used lot
it's behind the building
and he walked away
i guess it was a sales technique he thought he was going to pressure me into giving up that three hundred dollars that i asked for
i don't know
and i said i said i looked at the salesman i said i'm i'm sorry your boss just insulted me i can't
it's against my pride to buy a truck here now
and i felt really bad
i walked out and the guy called me at home
the next couple of days
it was terrible
but you know i walked out
i got into my brother was actually with me shopping for a car we drove down the street
and he said why don't you just look in here
and we went into the isuzu dealer because my brother always had this love for an isuzu trooper he wanted one you know
and we walked in
and here
there was a demonstrator model on sale like ninety six hundred dollars with everything
well that's a good question
we just got in from looking at cars
and we've probably been looking at them for a couple months
and we haven't bought one yet
so that almost answers the question
how about you
oh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
well we we've been looking at just about everything
i guess because we really don't need a car we just sort of want the luxury of buying a new car
and uh i don't know
we were today we were looking at [lexuses] and we keep going back to cadillacs
and looking at those
and then you don't know if you want to spend thirty thousand dollars and buy a new car
or whether you want to buy uh like a ninety one cadillac a ninety or ninety one for you know
twenty or nineteen or fifteen you can get them fairly cheap compared to buying a brand new one
and the new lexus that that they have that you you pay sticker price for those
yes
yes
we we were we were all in them today
but you know when it comes to whoops you know
do you want to spend about thirty thousand dollars
and uh it will probably be a little over that with the tax
so that's that's really
where where we are
or should we just buy you know a little volkswagen we
right
we you know the one of those [cabriolets] i guess they're called uh it's a convertible
it's sort of like you know square in the back
but the the selling point i guess that that i or it has to pass my test
i'm i'm short
and i need to sit in the seat see if i can get the seat high enough to see over the steering wheel like i like to see
yeah
i'm about five two
and to make sure the seat belt doesn't hit me in the neck that it comes really over the shoulder and not up around your neck so
right
well it can be comfortable
but those things
not all the seat belts are going to work that way
nor can i get all the seats up high enough to do that
so uh so on those we just we just forget about
and we've been looking at cars with other seats
but uh
i know this is a new experience for us just mainly because my uh my mother died which meant that we were coming into some money that we could splurge and buy car with
but yet
it's difficult to do though when you're not used to it
so that's why we're we're out uh sort of doing this
and uh
yeah
well we've always bought used cars before
and they haven't been very expensive
um so this is just just a new a new thing you know we've had vans we've had a new van
and you know some other another new car
that that wasn't used
but the prices are what you used to buy a house for
uh_huh
i bet
uh_huh
right
it's hard to adjust to it
and and you just don't want to really
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i hope you enjoy your car
uh we we looked at [thunderbirds] uh i guess maybe about a couple weeks ago we seem to do this every every weekend we've been out looking for for we still haven't bought yet
so i guess every every month we don't buy we save more money than we
we're just shopping and shopping is free until you buy
yeah
but it would it would be nice
our son works for e d s and and we could use his uh discount that he gets through general motors except uh we were only out looking at general motors cars except cadillac
and we're not looking at the at the new ones anyway
and in the cadillacs and they're not using they're not getting uh discounts on the new cadillacs that we're would be looking at to begin with
so
yes
plano
uh_huh
yeah
we were just got back from there
yeah
that was our last stop you know about eight thirty
i said we can always swing around crest so
there we go and we're [swinging] around yes
okay
what kind of car would you uh would you buy if you're going to by one these days
what kind of truck
oh i i think that's pretty good
i uh i got to look for something too
i i unfortunately i have a ford thunderbird that uh has been in the shop for three days
and they can't fix the thing
so i'm not real happy with ford at the moment
i i think i will try some other line
how how did those work
how long did they last you
how many miles you get on that
did you get a couple hundred thousand
really
um
yeah
maybe that's the kind of car i better buy i drive too many miles i uh i drive about thirty five thousand miles a year
and uh american cars i guess just don't do that kind of mileage
well
well i think the cars do
i don't think they have mechanics that can fix them
that's the whole problem
yep
well they can't fix them they don't they don't have the
yeah
where where do you live what city
do you live in
you live in dallas
well you got the same problem with mechanics i think me
i i just don't think there's good mechanics around
i think you're right
want to fix my thunderbird they can't fix it
that's the problem
i agree with you used to be you could you could repair and do all those things yourself
i i think that the [antipollution] stuff is what really [fouls] up a lot of engines and uh there's no way you can work on them
yep
that's right
i think they can it's just that that's why the electric has been made for some time
but uh there's too much politics and too much gas and oil people that will prevent that from coming on the market for the time being i'm afraid then they bring it on board
well we can always go back to horses
least you don't have to worry about maintaining them
uh well actually about six months ago we were
uh but it was kind of a different type deal
we had a a large conversion van that we're looking to sell it to
uh to get a smaller car
but but when i was looking for the van we were looking around quite a bit
oh yeah
yeah
as a matter of fact the reason we sold the van was just so that my wife could stay home with our two boys now
so we got rid of that big payment
and so that was
and now she's a stay at home mom
uh it did fairly well for me
uh i got about fifteen sixteen
in in the
that's a combination city and highway driving
and then on the open road
i got about nineteen or twenty
uh uh
yeah
you would think it would be a lot worse
i know mini vans don't get much better than that
they get about twenty one twenty two
yeah
uh
uh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
[ow] you got your use out of that
but uh yeah
that's true
no
i don't think so
yeah
well i looked at some of the uh toyota makes a really nice van
i i like theirs a lot
uh but if you really want size
you know the prices are about the same depend you know you can spend as much on a mini van as you do on a full size conversion van
the difference is the the conversion of course mileage is a little bit worse
but because you do have a bigger engine and bigger transmission you can pull stuff like trailers and boats and stuff
easier than you can with a you know the other mini van
uh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
just lots and lots of vans
uh_huh
oh
it doesn't yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well i don't know if you'd be how old is your oldest eight
yeah
see uh i don't know how long you'd be happy like that
well i don't know how often all all six of you all will be in the car
but i know that once you get one or two car seats in there
uh and then that
yeah
then you'd have your eight year old you'd probably have your eight year old up front on the bench seat
but even then after a while
you'd feel cramped especially if it was a you know a fairly long trip
any more than about an hour
uh-oh
yes
definitely
you know a station wagon the back end of a station wagon probably can carry as much as a van
but as for passenger space
you can't beat a van because you can
you can you can carry seven in a van
and that's a mini van
a large conversion van you can you know you can carry a lot
carry about nine
well because for what i wanted in a van the mini vans were were about a thousand dollars less
and you get almost twice the room in the conversion van than you do in the mini van
plus like i said all the extra pulling power
and i didn't feel i was losing that much on gas mileage
because they're not that far off
yeah
it was a new one
uh_huh
yeah
i mean i was really surprised
because because when you you know you can like take dodge for instance they got two sizes of mini vans
one's the extra long
and then the other the extra long option with all the power options you know windows locks
the nice stereo was only about fifteen hundred less than the comparable full size van
and you know like i said uh the mileage on a mini van is about oh twenty one twenty two on the highway and on the you know on the full size it was nineteen twenty
and that's nothing
well right now i have a uh small toyota tercel
and i think next time i want something just a little bit bigger uh perhaps [midsize] i really don't don't like the the real big cars i'm thinking about maybe a volvo
you do
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
how did your uh [corolla] hold up
um
uh_huh
do you remember how many miles you had on it at the end
uh_huh
my my tercel now has a hundred and forty six thousand miles on it
and i really haven't had any trouble out of it except the alternator went out at about a hundred and twenty six thousand miles
i think
right
right
right
and um it's really been great
i have had no problems with it you know except little little minor things like you know belts and actually i didn't i bought it from um [hertz] rent a car
and it had like twenty six thousand miles on it when i bought it
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
wow
right
wow
yeah
i'm trying to consider that uh
that could do to the plight of general motors and all of that
i'm really trying trying to consider but i don't know
i i i don't want to have to spend a lot of money for car repairs
have you heard that um
or do you know anything about the foreign cars being easier to steal than the uh american cars
there's a lot of of car theft going going on in dallas right now i don't know about in your area
yes
i'm here
what kind you get
how do you like it
that's good
my uh wife just got a new car a honda civic so i think i think it's my turn
well a c r x not a civic i don't why i said
yeah
yeah
she liked
and it's been pretty so far
she's had it about uh six months now
and uh it's been a really good car
but i don't know
she got one i should get one
so i'm looking although slowly right now
pardon me
yeah
yeah
just about i've never had one
but everybody i know who has
they don't have too many complaints which is can't be said about a lot of cars
but i don't know
i think i want a a chevy blazer or a g m c jimmy truck is what i'm looking for a wagon type of deal
it would be good
i look was i looked at a toyota [forerunner] actually it's the same time of deal
but smaller kind of like the s ten for the [chevys] i don't know
i i like the bigger ones better than the small ones
if you're going to buy a truck you might as well buy the real one instead of a toy truck
yeah
yeah
that sounds pretty good
i used to have a an s ten a little truck
i don't know
was it was more like having a car than a truck
so i decided this time i'll get a big one
yeah
he wants a big one again
yeah
that has a lot of advantages
and i'm up here in new hampshire so up north with the snow and everything
it's a a big advantage to us
you from texas by the way
yeah
yeah
most of the people i talk to on this are from down there
i'm one of the few east coast people
so that sounds pretty good
do you shop around pretty much when you were looking for your car or
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
oh that's great
are those uh four cylinders do you know or six cylinder four cylinder
yeah
you get pretty good gas mileage
around thirty or more than that even
or
yeah
yeah
that's a that's about what my wife's car gets little bit over thirty which is pretty good
i can't complain right now i have a ford escort which is the terrible car
but it gets good gas mileage
so i can't complain too much
it's ugly
and you know it's not real comfortable or anything
but i bought it used the after i graduated from school and it's getting the job done
but it's nothing that i really enjoy
uh my brother
used to have one of those
yeah
lot of time in the shop
yeah
yeah
i know about that
i had i had a ford thunderbird for a while and fixed or repaired daily is the joke about the ford
and it was pretty accurate with that car
i swore up and down
i never own another ford as long lived and i ended up anyway
oh i don't think i'll ever have another one after this one
but so far it hasn't too mean to me
uh do you test drive a lot of cars before you uh bought them
yeah
michael here
nice to meet you
where are you
lubbock
i'm in [biloxi] mississippi
yeah
not too far away
yeah
i guess so
well uh i i like i don't like real big cars i like fairly sporty smaller cars
and uh i have a toyota celica right now
and uh uh the the question they asked us was what would we buy next
and that's sort of what i have in mind for the next car that i buy is another celica uh
it's an eighty seven
oh you have a celica oh really
what what year is yours
eighty nine
yeah
yeah
oh i do too
i do too
yeah
i think so too
that's is the second toyota that i've had
yeah
and uh i've had it since it's new
and uh
that's what i i plan on getting another one you know
whenever the time comes uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
i know
uh_huh
uh_huh
just can't afford that
that's just a out out of my range
yeah
uh i've heard of it
i'm not sure what it's
what it is
uh
so a
so a sporty car
oh okay
uh other than the bronco i'm not sure
i don't know what it is uh they have a new one other than the bronco you're talking about huh
no
i don't know what it is
i haven't even really looked at the vehicles much lately
oh yeah
i think i probably will too because i've had good luck with it
never had hardly any problems you know
and the one i had before was the same way
yeah
we had a a uh tercel before this
an eighty two tercel
and that thing never gave us any problems we had a wreck with it
and uh the only problems we had was because of the wreck you know front end alignment problems and stuff like that
but uh uh i will i will say this uh the the celica that i own
now i have replaced the clutch in it
yeah
and that was last year
i think so
i think you just wear them out because we live you know our area's fairly congested and a lot of traffic
so it's you know we use the clutch a lot
i do
you're stopping and going
a lot you know
oh yeah
yeah
and uh i don't i'm i'm you know i don't worry about getting a japanese car you know everybody's talking about buying american and everything and uh i just like japanese cars
i think i think they're just better made
that's right
yeah
yeah
if they could make one as cheap you know too
i i i think the american cars they have the japanese beat when it comes to big cars
of course
but uh when it comes to little uh sporty cars or that kind of a car
i i don't think there there's any competition really
i think the japanese have them beat
oh yeah
sure
i do too
uh_huh
well i can too
i'm uh
i fill up maybe
well i fill up about once every week and a half i'd i'd say you know
and uh i do a lot of driving right now i'm in school and everything
so
uh been doing a lot of extra driving
but it's you know it's not bad
not at all
well that's right
well uh is yours the celica that you have is it a uh an s t or a g t or what
g t mine is an s t
uh it's little lower model than the g t yeah
they had the s t
the g t and the g t s
you know
and the the s t is the uh cheaper version of all three of them
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's got a little little power more powerful engine
and a lot more uh little more options on it
so
yeah
oh yeah
well that's the way mothers are
well what kind of requirements do you think you'll you'll want for your next car
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
well i i have a nissan that's what i bought and i i guess i originally bought it because of first of all because of the price because when i bought it i you know i wanted something you know enough as much bang for the buck
and i bought the car
and i bought the car used and i had almost sixty there's almost sixty thousand miles on it
and i have almost a hundred and ten thousand right now
and since i've had the car i've bought a new battery i've i had a a fan belt pulley go out and the [universals] in the drive [shaft] but other than that i haven't had any problems with it i when i bought it i went down to sears and had them put four sears road [handlers] on it
and they've been on there for i guess almost forty seven thousand miles
and they look [visually] they look brand new
and it was i guess two months ago
well i i changed my the main thing is is the maintenance as you say
and i do that
i keep the oil changed with the high r p m motor you know
and i get took it to get it tuned up and when i first got it
i took it
i wanted the valves adjusted and i the guy went in and i had to pay for it
the guy says you don't need them adjusted they're fine
and so i waited another forty thousand miles
and they just adjusted them
but they really weren't out of adjustment he they looked at it
and he goes it looks like a brand new motor it's because i keep the oil changed
and i says well i i wanted brakes changed
and he said they looked at them and he says in the back
you have three fourths of your pads and in the front they're three fourths you don't need them
and i
so i've been driving all these miles
and i didn't need them
but i i changed the front i had the brakes done in the front anyway
just because i wanted the front wheels you know packed the the bearings packed and things
and it worked out
so i mean i i'm just amazed at the performance and i the japanese cars
it just seems that as far as the
well i just going to [interject] quick as a
my next purchase i want something with a little more safety features i want the air bags and the antilock brakes
that that's something that i want
but uh i was going to say is that when general motors they sell their cars and there's too much of a i i believe there's just too much of a profit margin and you
they're you're not getting the car you're you're you're paying for you might say [markup] where the japanese cars you you're paying but you you you're getting that performance and so that's i said i'm i'm very very satisfied with my car
in fact i it's a you know it's a little little nissan pickup truck it's five speed
i just don't it's
i'm i'm not really that tall
and it you know it fits me comfortable
i have good [visibility]
i mean it just it just a blast it handles like a little sports car just really satisfied with it
okay
so what kind of car do you want to buy next
right
uh_huh
well do you have children are you married
no
well i am uh divorced just just like in three days i'll be divorced
and i have two little girls and uh i have a pontiac six thousand
and uh that's worn out
and if i would have had the money to go buy a car
i would probably get a toyota
just because that's what everybody says i should get when i get a car
is a toyota they're supposed to just last forever
you know
and uh if i had my choice i'd want a mini van
uh probably a chrysler
you know plymouth voyager or one of them other ones you know one of them
that's what i would want lots of room
so have room for them children to you know move around and not get cramped up and fuss you know
so
but i would probably you know want something with really good gas mileage
because i'm cheap
you know so that would probably be my choices
two choices
well you're single and you know
yeah
have them women look at you in that sports car driving around
oh goodness
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
i wouldn't
no
i wouldn't
oh yeah
well we had a honda accord
and uh an older one it was a eighty one and uh it just you know lasted forever
it was really good car
and uh so i like them
but uh i have a couple of friends that have toyotas and and they have a hundred and fifty two hundred thousand miles and not a thing goes wrong with them
get great gas mileage and they still just run run run
and i've got this poor pitiful pontiac and thing breaks down every other day
so you know
so i don't know
so if you were married and had children
what would you want to buy
of course you have a budget you're married and have children
it depends
are you a doctor or a lawyer
then you don't have a budget
or you just have a bigger one
right
ooh
i do too
i like them
they are
well all just about everything is expensive now
i mean you know the mini vans are way on up there
you know they're real expensive
and so you know
uh_huh
you don't you don't like them
i like riding in them
i love them
i think they're just great
two of my friends have them
and they're great
they're i really like them
uh i rode my one of my friends has a dodge caravan
and one has a one had a plymouth voyager
and i liked the plymouth voyager the best
you know it was a little bit fancier you know
and they haven't had a bit of problem with them
they're ride real smooth
and the kids have room and you know
i like them
so anyway
um um i'm a student in college right now
so i'm not really in the market for a car
i have one that i bought uh this past summer a used car which i uh hope it will last me for a while
uh but uh i guess it it fits my needs pretty well
it's uh a ford [tempo] and uh it's sort of a you know nice car
not not really you know huge
and a tank
but uh big enough so that you can fit people in the back seat
so it's nice when i go places with other people
uh and uh an ordinary car
it seems fairly reliable
how about you
yeah
they're they're pretty nice
they're kind of sporty right
i
if i have the right thing pictured yeah
if i i said if i was going out and buying a new car i might possibly buy something like that
uh but you know i'm pretty happy with what i have now as i said the other the other kind of thing
a friend of mine just got a new car got a ford explorer
and they're kind of neat cars although they have their draw backs i mean they're they're you know they're kind of big and whatever
but uh when it comes to uh moving stuff around which i find myself doing fair amounts since i tend to sort of move about twice a year
at this point
uh that kind of thing would be very handy
uh but uh yeah
i don't again i don't really have any uh you know strong preferences when i bought my car uh you know the major criteria was that it uh be something that was rated fairly good for reliability uh and uh you know not too expensive
and you know decent looking
but uh
i i ended up getting a pretty good deal on the car i got but uh i am very happy with it
it's not you know i suppose if i the maximum reliability i would have gotten from a japanese car
but uh they also sell for much more especially used and i sort of decided that it probably wasn't worth the price difference
but uh you know even if i did occasionally spend a little more for repairs
but uh it would probably work out now buying it
new
i don't know if that's true uh you know it probably isn't worth it more
huh
no
i didn't that's a ford
yeah
i didn't i mean i i would say they probably are a little bit more reliable
but at least on the used car market
i think that's uh that's [factored] into the price already
and i don't i don't think it's worth the added price you pay
i mean if you're going for like uh uh you know say uh uh you know a five year old car uh with for the given amount of mileage the japanese car will be going for a lot more money generally
yeah
and especially
this one thing that i was kind of appalled at is people would be selling uh japanese cars for you know that say had a hundred thousand miles on it
and they would be asking for a lot of money for um like not much less money than i found say the equivalent japanese car for with fifty thousand miles on it or something
and you know people would say well you know i mean they last forever
and whatever
but i i mean i have to be a little bit skeptical i mean maybe it's true
but huh
yeah
i mean
yeah
any
any car wears out eventually and starts to have problems
so i i knew that you know i definitely
i definitely wasn't going to buy something with you know eighty or a hundred thousand miles on it uh if i could avoid it
so
really
i'm surprised
oh okay
well that's yeah that's
yeah
i've heard is it the hondas where you have to replace the timing chain or the valves can get damaged or something like that
did yours actually fail on you
or did you have it replaced as sort of a [presumptuous] huh
yeah
i think yes
i think i remember hearing that either
the hondas or the toyotas uh that if the timing belt went in under the right circumstances you know i guess which would be while the car was running and maybe some you know certain [speeds] or whatever that it could cause the uh uh cause fairly serious engine damage
i could be wrong about that
i it's just something that i just vaguely remember hearing
yeah
uh do do you do any work on your own cars
oh yeah
yeah
i actually i just uh just recently thought about buying a new car
and i went and saw all the japanese cars
and uh really liked the uh actually the [diamante] which is uh sort of the luxury nissan uh but i i just decided i wasn't going to get i wasn't going to get first of all i wasn't going to get a japanese car that was about the time that uh you know all the all the sort of [antitrade] stuff was going on
and then uh later decided that uh i'd just hang on to my own car which has about two hundred and eighteen thousand miles on it
it's a chevy celebrity four cylinder
and i've driven it since uh grad school
and uh just decided you know i think i'll hang on to this car you know it's been so good for for me all this time
so uh in fact i got my wife a a used car that was uh also a chevy celebrity because you know i i had good luck
and uh i knew enough about all the the basic maintenance you know brakes oil and that kind of stuff to do it myself
so
yeah
yeah
yeah
all right
so if you have any problems with it
is it an accord
it's an accord
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yep
yeah
because it just breaks it more
yeah
yeah
wow that's as much as i make programming
i mean and i don't even get the sixty i only make
i only get the thirty
so
huh
yeah
huh
in other words there's no there's no benefit for going to a skilled mechanic
yeah
yeah
somebody told me uh once a casual conversation that this guy ran a a [towing] service
and uh i was telling him about you know i was thinking about buying a car and he said you know i
he said he he knew it would sound bias
but he said that about uh i don't know four out of five cars that he tows are japanese cars
and he said he just he didn't why you know he'd been he'd been in the business for awhile
and he wasn't sure
maybe it was
okay
all the goodies
an oldsmobile had you owned oldsmobiles before
uh_huh
uh_huh
and you what
just the memory of that made you go to oldsmobile again
or
oh yeah
do you are you still driving that car
how old is it now
eighty five are you going to be looking again soon
or how long do you normally keep cars for a long time
or
oh my
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my
was it still under warranty
or
uh_huh
uh_huh
you put a lot of miles on a car or
oh my
for what almost six well six years huh
uh_huh
well we don't we don't buy new cars that often
we drive them you know till they get maybe seven or eight years old
and then we'll what we'll do is sell off we'll have one about seven say
and one that's twelve or thirteen years old
and we'll get rid of it
and then we'll buy a new one
and and uh i guess right now we have a a seventy eight chevy wagon
and then a a four year old uh crown victoria that i love and
uh_huh
well my husband's my husband got to chose choose the make
and then i got everything else
he he he likes fords and my youngest son still lives at home
he's in in college
but he drives an old ford seventy seven ford pick up
that he loves but no
i
this was the last year they made the big crown victoria and before they started [chopping] it up and making it look ugly
so i
it i i guess some people think it looks [boxy] but always like to to have a room in a car
i'm not into [compacts] i like
something you can relax in
right
well that's not
that's a good choice for a child
i think to start to start to drive in
our oldest one started in a old datsun of ours
but our second one uh bought a real old
i guess it was a olds ninety eight
but it was one that was still metal before they brought in [fiberglass] and we she was such a nervous driver we felt like she's probably better off in that
you know if she if anything did happen
she was going to be all right
but not well just for [safety's] sake
and i don't know
i i look at the new ones on the market now
and the the bodies are so
[sleek] i guess for wind resistance
you know and and uh they just don't look like they're [roomy] inside
i guess they are
i haven't been looking at them to
oh really
uh_huh
is it supposed to seat six
uh okay
a lot of knee room in the back
or
yeah
right
right
well i even in our car
i know like when my husband and my sons and sons in laws all have long legs they're tall people
and so if one of like my husband's driving then he [scoots] his seat back
and so we can't put a we can't put a tall person with long legs behind him
so it
oh my word
yeah
you're like my son in law no
that's so you can't then then like i could sit in back because i'm only five four so my legs would fit
fine back there
but you couldn't put a a real long [legged] person back there comfortably
right
well yeah
i wonder sometimes you know we have the dallas mavericks here that play
and they'll show them sometimes on t v
and they've all got these real low
sports cars
and i
well i've never been in one
so i
but i'm always wondering how on earth somebody six seven six eight is getting into those little old things
they must
because i don't know where they're going corvette
well even to get out of it though
i mean you're only a foot off the ground at the most
and it's got to be you know you can't get your leg out and i thought i always you always see them standing by it you know if they're advertising
they don't ever show them getting in and out
and i thought that's the part
i'd like to see
is them getting in or out
right
well listen i never had a car that's had the [swivel] seats that where you can like when you're wanting to get out
you just turn it to the side
and then your feet are
and and i don't even know if they i know for a while back
i saw them advertise that
and i thought that might be kind of a neat
a neat thing to have
but i i for some reason they don't carry them
and i don't know if they found they were unsafe or you know maybe to do that they had couldn't make them where they were just real stable
one thing our our car doesn't have that i'd look for in another car is that that little [gutter] like it runs so that when you open the door the water doesn't just come off the
it doesn't have that
so when you open our car door it comes the new the new one does
so they i guess that's the year they learned that's not a good idea because it just comes right off the roof and straight down
and just you know i try to put an umbrella up there
but that doesn't help too much
it just
so i get the interior wet
and i don't like to do that just along the side there
well i i don't know
we
how many inches
do you all average a year
how many inches
do you average a year
you just have had a lot
is it is it uh kind of a dirty rain you know i i've never been down in there
but you always here how polluted with all the oil
it's not it's not
well i i didn't course
it is up here too
it is everywhere
but with all the oil
right
right
that's where i was thinking of
that doesn't that doesn't affect oh then you don't have any trouble with the water
oh my
well i just i don't know
i you know i just hear that when you read about houston seems like they're course all their advertising or not advertising
but news reporting is maybe an oil
[refinery] blowing up or something like that
you don't ever i i need to get down that way
i guess sometime when i retire
see what they
i know
my grandchildren keep me [landlocked] uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
yeah
i
that was where they had when the economy went bad a couple years back
they had all the [limousines] for such good buys we had one of our principles at our of a school here in plano an elementary school went down and bought one
i think she paid eighteen or twenty thousand dollars for a [limousine] and she's still driving that thing around and they tease her
just just you know to see her drive up in front of the school everybody wonders who it is
it was just a
well they just said you know the [limousine] companies were going out of busy
and and you could pick one up
for a real good buy and they had supposedly in houston they had a lot of them
so i thought well that
i don't know
we even debated about that at that time
but decided no
that wasn't the that wasn't the right when our kids were little we had a van which we loved for for traveling we had four kids
and they just
okay
uh what do you think
well that makes a big difference doesn't it
it's kind of like well if
right
a little more domestic there
yeah
i i guess the biggest factor for me lately is american versus non american and while i would really like to buy american
i don't know
it just it really depends on reliability for me
uh i have a ford right now
and it's been a pretty good truck
but some of the things are not that good about it and ford sales have been really bad in terms of uh customer service at least for me
so it's
i don't know it's kind of disappointing
but
yeah
yeah
right
well one i guess one of the good things that i have to work on is my my father he's a pharmaceutical rep
and he he gets a new car about once every three years
and he's been driving a lot of mini vans in the last like five or ten years
and uh he generally goes with i think the astro van
uh it's the only one that has a standard six cylinder which is real important to him
but i don't know
i guess i guess for my next car i'd probably have to scale down to an actual car instead of a pick up
i'm starting to get into that
i'm a college student right now
i'm a doctoral student
and uh i anticipate getting a full time job soon
so you know probably one of those things where i really don't need the hauling capacity much i will be a little more stable
but i guess i don't know
i'm i think i will probably buy american
but i'm just not real sure
you know
uh_huh
sure
and it
yeah
and that opens up a whole another can of worms
i guess ford is suppose to start up
they are going to actually put out a line of electric cars next year in california you know
yeah
uh_huh
oh that would be a definite yeah
that would be the way to go for sure
i think there's no questions in in terms of whether i would have that or not
sounds like your kids want to get on the conversation
i bet they would have something to say about buying cars huh
yeah
oh really
how old are they
oh i see
uh_huh
right
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
i've heard some good things about that car actually
yeah
yeah
a big factor for me is is [ergonomics] and and in terms of control and display design that's what i am going into for my degree
and so that that's something i really try to consider a little more heavily heavily more than most people probably do
but
uh_huh
yeah
it's amazing how much spot light it's gotten lately you know it seems like everyone that's a big concern now you know
all right
well we're supposed to talk about cars
gosh
yeah
uh_huh
well i'll probably look for a family a family type vehicle like a van mini van or something because i've got two
i just uh i've got two young ones
so we're we're looking for something that's more family oriented yeah
something bigger that we can carry
six
yeah
right
right
um that's that's right near me
yeah
plano's a few miles north
who does he work for
oh really
corporate office
huh
uh i've got a i'm taking a class and uh one of the guys that's in my uh my group that we're doing a group presentation he works for j c penney
three years
they're moving their offices to to plano right right now
well that's good
well that's great
yeah
huh
that's super
yeah
well american cars are hopefully they'll i think unions really screwed american cars up
they uh
you know the price of the cars are just more than incomes are because people are you know the people that work at car manufacturers make well the g m plant
or
yeah
the g m plant that they have down here that they're thinking about closing uh the average worker there makes twenty two dollars an hour
and that's you know that's more than a lot of people make you know professionals make
yeah
i don't either
yeah
sure
yeah
sure
uh_huh
what kind of car do you have right now
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i know my father in law has have a has a turbo charged uh engine on his truck
and he's had some some problems with that
but uh he put the turbo on himself and uh there was some problems right from the start with that
well i think it's probably about an eighty seven also
excuse me
but i guess my tastes in vehicles are just a little bit different uh uh i've been more into just kind of a family car small uh not real big car
uh but lately
we've been uh trying to get something that's a little bit more reliable
so we've been going with uh toyota vehicles lately
and i'm more into pick up trucks lately
i i got self a pick up truck last spring
and i'm more interested in the the off road that kind of thing hauling things around
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
i know we do a lot of that on the road traveling and we we have a toyota camry for that kind of traveling
that's a little bit more comfortable it's it's not real fancy but it's a lot more comfortable than a lot of the other vehicles we've had prior to that
uh_huh
are you pretty satisfied with your jeep as far as repair and reliability on it
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
we just got that a few days ago here in wisconsin
so
uh_huh
yeah
well it kind of goes the other way with the vehicles that we've had because the toyota we have now was built in i think tennessee
and the uh before that we had a a volkswagen [jetta] which was made in philadelphia
or somewhere in pennsylvania
i think so
but you wouldn't think that just off the top of your head you think they're german or or japanese made
yeah
i read that in the paper the other day
found that interesting
we used to have a jeep a long time ago when we were first married and i i swore i'd never get one again
because we had so much problems with it
it was just
a a never ending uh stay at the the repair shop just
well the [carburetion] never really worked quite right
and there
you must have a family
uh_huh
ooh
right
well i can tell you about reliability the last two cars i've had have both been honda accords and uh i mean it's probably
it's not a hugh car
but it's been very reliable
and uh i was just very impressed by it
uh when i first looked at it
and when i talked to other people who had hondas they cost a little more
and when i was looking for them the dealer just wouldn't negotiate at all
because they're such a big demand but it had all the features i needed the uh you know the power and the uh [adjustability] and power windows and things like that
and the [dashboard] just looked good to me it was just no nonsense had the the uh [speedometer] and the tack and the a couple of other little [gauges] like engine heat
but none of the big [flashy] electronic stuff
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
god
well it's well if you like american cars it's a good thing that they're getting better i'll tell you that you uh_huh
right
yeah
maybe it'll work right then huh
great
yeah
well chrysler is supposed to be when if you're looking at reliability chrysler is supposed to be one of the best american cars right now
and the american cars the one advantages one one big advantage they still have is you can typically find them for a lot less
so anyway but uh some of the other things i like about well some of the things i don't like usually are uh the [flashy] stuff you know
all the doors lock when you do something or uh uh i used to
now i'm getting more to where i think i might like a a sun roof on my next car
i'm not really sure about that because i'm very much a person who uh likes to drive around with every with all the windows closed and the air conditioning on
so i can hear my stereo well
but you know
so a sun roof or or a tee top or something like that you're just going to have to crank the stereo up to compete with the wind noise
you bet
they don't sell any cars down here without it you know
uh_huh
yeah
great
uh_huh
oh no
that's right
no
i'm not uh
and i won't be for a while
it's kind of called not having the money but i always like to look at what's out there
are you looking at cars right now
well what what are you thinking about
uh_huh
so you're looking at uh luxury cars a little bit bigger
have you looked at uh the buick [riviera] it is
well i happen to drive that one just because i think it looks nice
and um i owned a buick for a while
and it it performed real well
um i i have a lot of friends that have bought cars recently
and it just seems like there's
and um a million people that buy honda uh honda accords
its like everybody buys a honda accord
and i really don't know what makes them select that over any other car
oh
are they
i didn't know that i didn't know that uh
and i uh i've read some articles too about oh i think the last one that got me going
i don't know much about it at all
but those little [geos] they're kind of cute
and they get excellent gas mileage
i mean they're like the top rated gas mileage car out there
uh_huh
whoa
ugh
that sounds nice
uh_huh
i agree with you there
i have uh uh a friend who has one
and you know another thing is is they don't age
they always look the same so you really don't know what what year
it is
they don't
and uh you know they're a quality car they
well i would definitely have to look at price
uh and i would look at what i could afford uh i definitely would chose a car on on what appeals to me as far as looks but it would have to be dependable uh it it'd have to be
exactly
and there there's such a range of prices prices in the car market that if you don't start by [narrowing] it down by that factor
i mean that really gets you into just one little slot
and then there are many many options to go to go to from there uh i'd one thing that always interests me is whether or not to buy an american car or a foreign car
uh_huh
so you're going to uh something a little bit bigger and and having better gas mileage too
uh_huh
well you make me laugh because right now i what i did is
i i acquired a car through my folks which is a nineteen eighty four l t d
and my teenage daughter hates it
because it's an old persons car
oh well
absolutely
and uh it's it's a nineteen eighty four car
and it has eighteen thousand miles on it actual miles
so it's kind of thing like i'm going to drive this car until it dies
you know i mean it's just too good to
and then maybe when i go out and look in in the car market i'll be able to get what i really want
and
oh i think i'm going to fall in to the category of most women uh in saying that i feel better going to a dealership because i don't know anything about a car mechanically that was an experiment
i did last year was i went and and talk and drove a few cars and talked with the the salesman
and i found that uh i had [matured] a little bit in that they don't [intimidate] me at all
uh-oh
they well they they make you they don't make you feel at ease but i've come to the point where i know that i'm the one they charge and that they can't you know
um i think they're [intimidating] to both men and women and exactly
and once you once they sense that you really like something then you're really in trouble
exactly
yeah
the uh i also had a had a nineteen eighty four uh bronco two which uh my ex husband had purchased i paid it off
and and when i acquired this l t d
i thought well i'm going to sell this car while i can get some money out of it yet
so i was selling a car and that was interesting because i had to kind of research well what is it worth um and kind of understand what someone would ask me about it
oh yes
absolutely
and yet at the same time
it's it's a matter of like selling anything else you have to find someone who wants that particular item
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's what i did is i kind of did a little bit of both blue book is kind of a dream it's kind of like if you can [attain] it
you're doing well
but if you go by what the other cars are listing for then you can rest assured that you're going to get right in that ball park so
how soon
do you think you'll be purchasing a car
do you think of colors at all when you
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
would you order it
or would you uh
uh_huh
well that sounds exciting
it really does
so
well that sounds like a good plan
you might as well just you know get it enjoy it for one more year and get it in good shape for selling it
or trading it in
uh_huh
my goodness
what type of car do you are you driving
uh_huh
oh i'm sure
uh_huh
because it has such uh powerful right
right
uh_huh
i can understand that
they're
i mean they're just very difficult to work with
and they can they can see a potential for a problem even if your record is good
well that's good
they don't really appeal to me that much
i
right
right
you seem to put a lot of um image into your selection of a car which lots of people do
that's true
uh_huh
uh_huh
and i liked what you said also about when people have cars that are uh that are quality cars
so what kind of car do you want
oh
uh_huh
do you have a family
uh that helps
uh_huh
you you sound like you've been looking recently your or you're buying it soon
uh_huh
that won't be much longer
yeah
well actually i haven't
it's funny
i haven't been looking at all
i mean because um i'm a grad student
and my wife's got an eighty seven olds [ferenza] and i have an eighty two bonneville which basically our our our our plan is to wait another year until i'm down with graduate school
and then sell the bonneville for whatever we can get for it and go out and buy a a new car some place else
and i think we i'm i'm sort of stuck
i want half of me wants some sort of little sporty thing just for the hell of it because it may be the last time i can drive one for a long time
and the other half of me says be [pragmatic] and get some sort of um probably small economical car for a couple of years and then get something bigger like a minivan when when when we have kids and stuff
or or or when we travel a lot
yeah
right
yeah
they don't work
yeah
right
well it's a it's a it's note like the i've seen that mazda van
and and it seems like it would be the right thing then
right
oh okay
that'll be nice
oh okay
right
that's just
yeah
it's thinking ahead
it's real good
that'll give you a little extra
yeah
yeah
it's actually a real nice feeling
i uh grew up driving the suburban and then recently i test drove um for some strange reason i test drove a range rover not because i was going to buy a forty
thousand dollar jeep mind you
but just but but because um my my wife works for a [temp] agency
and they and and they had a job and they called me
basically i basically i was shopping the agent to make sure you know he was doing good things by range rover you know they sent me out as a to sort of act like i wanted to buy one basically
and then report back to the company as to how the salesman is doing
so i had to act like a buyer and uh
yeah
it's a neat little um it's it's it's it's sort of like being a scab i guess in a sense
but uh but i used you know i mean he did a wonderful job
so i just went back and said wonderful things about him you know
but we went and part of it was test driving a range rover and i realized afterward you know it's a real nice ride because it's nice you're nice and high and lots of [clearance] and stuff like that like you said
but forty thousand yeah
that's just way too much for for a jeep no
i wouldn't i mean i would get if i wanted to pick out a car like that
i'd go for a bronco or or or you know blazer or something
i figure it's
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
this this is nothing
i mean he uh he was showing me they had this i was you know they had they had a [beamer] there that was seventy eight thousand and a mercedes that was ninety you know
and the man claimed that he sold fourteen of these mercedes the previous year it was amazing
yeah
it totally and i i can't imagine what's that much better about them that
right
yeah
i agree
it'd be nice to think that i could afford it mind you
but
yeah
no
i was going to say a volvo at eighty five thousand miles is still being broken in isn't it
i mean
yeah
aren't those the ones that that have is it volvo or saab that has like the three hundred thousand mile club and i think it
and the car's probably still fine
right
right
it's wonderful
yeah
that's nice to have no payments
yeah
uh_huh
that's great
you've really thought this out
it sounds like i mean i'm sort of you know i sort of look around and go yeah that's a nice car that's a nice car
but i haven't really
right
uh to be paying for a car
that's true
that's that that that's real true
actually that's that's actually it's got um it's actually it's low on mileage given that it's eighty two it's only got seventy five thousand on it
and uh or seventy four or whatever you know
and it's it's in uh it's a funny coincidence that my cousin sold me the car
and she's up for the weekend now
so she's out baby sitting in the next room sort of perfect coincidence
it's a perfect time to be talking about that car
um but yeah
it's just it's just you know i have little problems here and there you know um stupid things start to go like the uh i can't open
it it has electronic windows
unfortunately electric windows and doors
and the uh
and the passenger window is gone
you know it doesn't open any more
but i'm not going to fix it
because i'm going to sell it in a year
yeah
it's it's it's seventy five dollars for the motor alone
and then another seventy five to install it you know
so that can that that's crazy
or like the air conditioning went the air conditioning sort of blowing warm air
so i went down to the you know my local mechanic
and for forty dollars
they did an air conditioning check and they went through everything
i told them to put a shot of freon in
and they said yeah it needs a shot of freon but then he came back and he said well the reason you're losing the freon is because you have a leak in this condenser line
and that's a hundred and fifty dollars to fix that
and then while we're in there
we have to change this this and this and you know
and so it it would have wound up costing was close to four hundred dollars
but he said look if you're selling the car in a year don't bother doing it all he said i'll give you a shot of freon every now and then and and you're fine you know
so
she has an eighty seven um [ferenza] it's an olds yeah
it's an oldsmobile
yeah
no
it's olds actually
olds yeah
that's actually a real good car
i'm finding it's uh mechanically is very sound um
unfortunately the body was uh rust [proofed] by a company called rusty jones which i'm not sure if you've ever heard of or not
but uh rusty jones went out of business because their rust [proofing] wasn't very good
and now i've got some i mean the eighty two has no rust at all
and the eighty seven has some pretty big rust spots on it
so it's
so
and
yeah
actually we're we're looking forward to getting out of here
right
now i have a nissan sentra and it's my first car
and so i'm really i really have grand designs on on my next car
uh just a about two years now
yeah
oh probably another year
another year or so i'm i'm working in waco
and so i probably won't buy another one until i get another job so
but this one
i mean i like this one
a lot um
if i were to get a new car i
it may be a a another uh nissan so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
i've always heard that the foreign cars are are the you know foreign cars or the toyota and nissan they have good mileage
it's
better
and they last and last
my mother has a toyota
and she's she's going on about a hundred and fifty thousand miles on it
and it's still trucking so i
she's sticking with it
um i think i probably want uh a kind of a sportier car
the one i have now is gray and i like black
and probably like tinted windows and a nice stereo system tape player
i don't have a tape player in mine which is really killing me
yeah
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
right
right
right
the problem
with that in waco is there's not many stations
and so you pretty much depend on tapes
and c d et cetera
and so on
because there's not a whole lot of stations to
listen to um pretty much
yeah
i not in my own personal car i drive a lot in my uh company car
um my personal car i usually just drive to work and back or to the mall
or something
but not a whole lot
i do drive back and forth to dallas a lot
in that car
and that's probably wearing it down quite a bit
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
if you were to get another kind of car what would it be
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
i do tend to like riding in american cars
i've just never had one
so i i can't really compare
right
uh_huh
the big problem with a foreign car
my father he drove or he always forever
and ever he's had [audis] and those german cars
and they're so expensive to get fixed
and that that's a big big uh [minus] sign for the
foreign cars
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i think i've got my eye on a maxima when my price range
is in reach
so what do you think about the about all the new vans that are out
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right up
but it it it would seem to me as if i was sitting in a bullet
of some sort
and i'm right in the front you know it's
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
i don't know
i think i'll probably be hanging on to my nissan for a while
i guess here
move up as i move up
i haven't had to put any tires on it
and they're they're still
they still have tread on them and everything
i probably will have to change them here soon
but
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
this car
i haven't had any problem at all except for uh a couple of weeks ago
the it completely like shut down
and it really shouldn't have done this because it's it's relatively new car
and it completely shut down
it wouldn't it just started going it went in drive and just kept driving i would put it in rear it kept going straight
so i just drove it to the nissan place
and they said that it looked like i'd bumped something underneath the car
and i knew i hadn't bumped anything
but i had taken it to sears for an oil change a couple of days before
and i'm thinking they did took a screw out or bumped something or something
and
exactly
that's what i was thinking because i know i haven't done anything to it
and so i really haven't had any other problems except for that which i don't think would have been a problem
had i taken it somewhere else or something
but yeah
i haven't had any problems at all
yes
yep
oh yeah
it's been good talking to you too
okay
thank you
bye bye
bye
yeah
i am uh a truck
yeah
think i'm going to buy american this time
yeah
i got a
yeah
we got a toyota two of them actually
they uh they've always been real good cars
but it's just uh
well i actually haven't had any problem with them at all
but uh i i think it's probably pretty important to uh to buy american
i've i'm coming to that conclusion
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i yeah i do
too
i i think uh
i've i've had pickup trucks before
and i've had uh [chevrolets] and they were pretty good
but i i think uh ford uh is is pretty much focusing on quality
uh_huh
is that right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i was looking in uh it was uh i i forget the name of the magazine used to be changing times sort of like a consumer reports magazine
and uh they were saying that ford ranger was the number one selling truck
counting all of
yeah
yeah
something i believe something like that
yeah
i'm not sure i i kind of think i'd like to go with a something around a a one fifty i don't want a full size
but i don't want uh one of those little uh mini trucks either
besides i probably would look at something uh maybe a a v six
you know
yeah
yeah
i've got one little girl
and and and a set of golf clubs
so
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's it
yeah
yeah
uh
yeah
yeah
i i kind of like the looks of the short bed
but or the short cab
but but uh you know like i say just you just really need the extra space unless you have some sort of a cab you know
cover or something
but
yeah
uh_huh
although uh i i notice you said rust right before that that we don't have that much problem down here
but i know you all have it up there
i guess they salt the roads and
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i guess i i as i was working with some people from buffalo here recently
or
actually it was a couple years ago
but they were they were saying you know a lot of people up there
they got a winter car
and then a summer car you know
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
out comes the sixty eight nova yeah
uh_huh
okay  
uh you want to start by telling me what camping is to you  
do you backpack or hike  
or  
no  
i've never done a canoe trip  
that sounds interesting  
oh man i imagine  
so they'll actually fit in the canoe  
and then you go for days at a time  
god that sounds like fun  
well the camping i grew up with was like tents and coleman stove type  
and uh you know that just either out in the woods or  
actually i i grew up water skiing  
i was uh from california  
and so we would go up to the sacramento uh river [sloughs] the delta there  
and you just pick a campground on the river  
if it got you know over a hundred and ten degrees you went over the [levee] and jumped in the water   you know  
cooled off  
but uh when i got married my husband had always [backpacked]  
and so we did that uh  
i guess we haven't done it since my kids were born so about three years ago  
and that was a new experience for me  
but i enjoyed it  
i like being able to go back into the mountains   or you know where the trail didn't necessarily lead and where you couldn't necessarily pitch a tent  
but uh that that was interesting  
i i have always wanted to do some white water rafting  
and so your canoeing kind of made me think of that  
don't let that stop you  
i know  
yeah  
so you haven't done that before  
my parents uh were sailing uh this last year down off uh costa rica  
and they took about two weeks and went into  
i don't even know the name of the river there  
but they went white water rafting  
and mom said it was absolutely just a wonderful experience  
she said it was truly incredible  
and you know i  
there's that sense of it you know you're kind of scared that risk of like gosh what could happen and then the thrill of you know the excitement of doing it  
so  
well do you have anything planned for this summer  
oh okay  
oh i imagine  
oh that doesn't that sounds good  
that sounds  
we've been wanting to start camping again this year too  
uh my oldest child is a girl was born three years ago three and a half  
and then i have a little one that just turned two  
and we are in the process of potty training  
i didn't want to go camping with diapers you know  
i  
and and you know at a time when they're afraid of their shadow all they need is you know some skunk or something to rub up the outside of the tent  
they'd be awake all night  
so but i think with him almost potty trained and you know she's not afraid of her shadow anymore that i'm i'm hoping and crossing my fingers that we'll be able to go uh this summer you know even if it's like over to rio [dosa] for a couple of days   or something to get them used to it and get them started uh with little back packs of their own   and you know things like that  
uh_huh  
well that's true  
ugh i would need that before i could teach them  
well uh a little bit uh  
nothing overly strenuous  
no  
the majority of my camping experience is uh a tent by the lake type situation or uh maybe a canoe trip or something like that  
oh it it's  
we've had a lot of fun uh  
i i moved to dallas about five years ago  
and we've made three different trips since i've been here the group of friends that i run around with of [varying] degrees uh of difficulty  
the the last one we did and we haven't had a chance to duplicate was uh was a canoe trip in arkansas  
and the river was it was up about three feet  
so it was uh it was it was pretty challenging  
but uh and then we uh  
as far as the camping part of that we just drag along all our tents and sleeping bags and uh find uh find a clearing in the woods and go for it  
well yeah  
yeah  
it's the  
that that particular one was a two day trip  
so what uh  
there's uh there's a [outfitter]  
and uh they haul you up to the [headwaters] come down about halfway and then you get to you spend the night  
and then uh the second day head on down to the to the pool at the end of the river  
yeah  
it it really is  
okay  
okay  
right  
right  
okay  
boy i bet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that was uh that's always been our next step  
our our little group of friends here we've been kind of getting married off and what not  
but uh  
yeah  
that  
well it it just puts a [damper] on things for a little while  
but we're we're starting to get everybody back together  
yeah  
we'd like to do a float trip down uh-oh like big bend area or something like that  
no  
no  
we haven't made that trip yet  
i'll bet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
um not really just yet  
we've uh  
well i i do have uh a little bit of property  
i grew up in south dakota  
and i've got a piece of property in minnesota that is completely [undeveloped] as of yet  
there's uh there's a little lake up there  
and uh a group of friends that i i went to college with um got together  
and we basically own all the land around this little lake there  
it's divided up into ten lots  
so we've got a private lake  
and it's completely [undeveloped] at this point  
so that's a possibility  
and the weather is typically always nice up there in the summertime  
it it's it's about two hours north of minneapolis  
so uh yeah  
in fact uh uh  
well i got married last summer  
and uh that's that's  
we ended up there for a couple days uh on our honeymoon  
we kind of took uh a tour of the united states for about a week   and uh up through that area  
but uh my wife's real excited about it  
so we're uh we're going to hope to get up there sometime early  
last year it was the end of july  
and it was a little too late for the fish  
but uh hopefully get up there early enough to to get into some of the some of the fish and uh the the good weather and what not  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
sure  
right  
you bet  
yeah  
we'll that you know  
and there's a lot of places with uh like nature trails   things like that where they could learn a lot too  
you know it's like okay this this is this is what uh a pheasant looks like you know  
and okay now we'll go look for one  
well yeah  
that's  
everybody might learn something that way  
but uh but yeah  
that's  
there is there's an awful lot of things set up you know just any anything you want to do  
like like you say it can be uh a water ski trip or fishing trip or just a [sightseeing] bird watching you know hunt hunt with a camera type of thing  
or there's a lot of different opportunities for things like that  
it's a lot of fun  
it really is  
hello  
all right  
now we used to be big time campers  
but now we're not quite so much since the kids are involved so much in sports  
well when we before we had kids we was in a motorcycle group   you know  
we went like twenty or thirty at a time  
we took uh just our little tents  
and we did it that way  
then when we started having children we bought a camper   you know  
and we did it that way  
so we've always enjoyed camping  
uh_huh  
yes  
now we have friends with a van  
and when they go on vacation a lot of times they'll just sleep in the van you know  
like one night  
and the next night they'll stay at the motel you know or something like that  
and they enjoy it  
oh  
yeah  
oh   me either  
i hate to be on all that stuff  
oh yeah  
oh  
yes  
yes  
oh  
but now i enjoy it every once in a while  
i mean it's not something i'd want to do real often  
i'm a [sissy]  
i either want to do it in the fall or spring  
you know  
yes  
well not really because usually it's when we go off   you know like for a couple weeks or so  
it's usually like that  
just about  
just about  
oh it really is  
it really is  
also i said we mostly did ours before we started a family  
it's a lot easier then  
oh uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh  
i'd like to go anywhere  
you know i just like to go  
i really do  
no  
not really  
not that much  
um we've been well we've been to wyoming you know and kentucky and montana and you know places like that  
but usually if we're with a group of people we really don't stay any one place very long  
you know like if we're just going through and they camp one night and then head on  
but now that we have children and we go every blue moon   i'd rather just go to galveston   you know  
yes  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it is  
my children really enjoys it  
they really do  
but by the time we really get a chance to it's july you know  
and it's so hot  
and our camper doesn't have an air conditioner  
yeah  
it's one of those pop ups  
i'm sure you could put one in probably  
but we hadn't did that  
yes  
we all enjoy camping  
and they're you know they're in like and scouts and stuff like that you know   so they get to go camping in those organizations also  
at least their daddy goes with them  
i don't   when they do that  
but   that really is  
well how old is your boys   your children  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
yeah  
yes  
it really is  
mine's eleven and eight  
so they really enjoy it too  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
oh  
but i have uh brother in law and a sister you know that just really just camp  
you know they love to go camping  
they could they would all the time they wanted you know   wanted to because there's nothing holding them back  
but i'm just not that involved in it  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
me   i haven't really as far as entertainment  
i don't know what you would do every   you know  
but i guess my [entertainment's]   television i guess  
uh_huh  
oh i don't either  
uh_huh  
yes  
but they probably live in a city also  
don't they  
well see we're in a real small county area  
and you know that makes a big difference  
because if we want to go camping we can just go just a few miles you know  
that makes a difference  
it was nice talking to you too  
and we'll probably be talking to you again  
okay  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
what type of camping did you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh how neat  
uh_huh  
well i know i have um i just have a tent  
and the kids and i like to go out and camp in the tent  
and then i bought a van  
and that way i can sleep in the van and be more comfortable  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
i don't i don't think i'm a real true trooper you know when it comes   to camping  
all the bugs and stuff  
but i i try  
but but i try   you know to uh to get out there and enjoy everything  
but what was so fun though is that i had to take my son to the doctor this morning because he went out camping with some friends  
and he got poison ivy  
and it's all over him  
the poor thing you know  
so there's definitely hazards to going camping if you don't know what you're looking at  
oh shoot  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
definitely when it's cool  
well have you done much camping around texas  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well have you camped all over the united states  
wow  
see now i haven't so that  
i bet you that's an experience there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well i know my parents like to camp a lot  
and they uh they've been going to gulf [shores] alabama   and uh which is really really neat  
they said they've got the white beaches and the sand  
and it's not real populated so they can they feel like they're in the outdoors and still close to the ocean  
and uh from what i understand from them it's really really pretty there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well have you done much camping up in kentucky and and those parts   in the mountains  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
rent a beach house or something   yeah that's that's my idea of camping  
but we're uh we're getting more into it  
and we've done uh we've done quite a bit  
and uh uh the kids like to go out you know as often as they can  
um so that's good  
you know they're they're becoming enthusiasts then of camping  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's really neat  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that's neat  
that's really neat  
well i   well i have um a son that's uh going to be eleven here pretty soon   and then a daughter that's thirteen  
so they're they're getting old enough to where they can help out with a [campfire] and   cooking and and all that kind of stuff too  
so that's that's really neat  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i agree with you  
they like to get out there  
and but this wasn't so fun this last time for [nathan] to to get out there  
and he didn't realize he was touching poison ivy  
and it got all into his eye  
and it was really [swollen]  
and uh so they had to give him shots and everything  
so  
oh well maybe next time he'll stay away from those particular   trees   or what bushes whatever they are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
now i like to go out like several times a year  
but not on a on the regular basis  
i have some friends who go out every single weekend   when you know in the season  
uh and and i just couldn't do that   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
just getting away  
yeah  
right  
right  
see i see they just want to get away  
but every friday night they'll go home you know straight from work  
and they'll pack up  
and you know and then they'll leave  
and i'm just going you know  
by friday night i just want to crash you know  
and i want to go home and you know do all that   and then uh get out on the road to boot  
so  
but anyway that's their life  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
now that's true  
that's true  
yeah  

that's true  
well it was nice talking with you  
okay  
okay  
well take care  
bye bye  
okay  
they suggested that we uh discuss what we think of when we say camping  
oh i can camp just about most anyway  
camping or uh motor home is nice uh travel trailer pop up  
oh really  
oh  
you really rough it then  
uh_huh  
do you do that very often  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you'd have a lot of hills in that down in that area  
yeah  
that would be really great  
pardon  
uh_huh  
that sounds like it'd be fun  
did you go alone or with a group or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great long as it's not raining  
uh_huh  
really  
oh that would be  
huh_uh  
well i'm in pennsylvania  
yes  
are you in texas now  
oh  
okay  
most everybody i've been talking to is from texas  
but uh we're up here in western [northwestern] part of pennsylvania  
uh_huh  
well you kind of know what it's like then  
yeah  
but we've uh we've done uh many types of camping  
we've we've done tent camping  
and we had access to a motor home which is really super great if you don't want to rough it too much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
just get you away from the everyday things that are going on  
we when the children were smaller we used to go to uh delaware along the ocean most every year  
and that was fun  
we stayed mostly in state parks  
and uh we really enjoyed that  
huh  
oh maybe my dropping my phone  
is that better  
oh  
but  
yeah  
well we used to  
we don't as much anymore  
but uh we used to  
we kind of slowed down a little bit  
but uh i think the worst the worst thing is when it's raining  
if you get a rainy season and you happen to be camping   then it can be kind of bad  
uh_huh  
i don't think i would like that  
what kind  
oh  
those aren't too pleasant  
yeah  
we have some of them around here  
you probably have more there though i would imagine  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but you still [backpacked] and camped out  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess you know enough to look where you're walking or sitting   or whatever you're doing  
yeah  
yeah  
i would think i would think a cave would be could have problems like that too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is your brother younger than you  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's great  
that'd be a lot of fun  
you have a lot good experiences from that  
yeah  
did you really  
what black ones  
yeah  
that would be exciting  
yeah  
they're usually more afraid of you than you are of them usually  
they're on the increase in this area  
uh_huh  
the black bear  
oh yeah  
yeah  
the [population's] been really up  
they've uh they've had longer hunting seasons than that even to get rid of more of them because they were uh increasing so much  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but uh we we really like camping  
i i must say that uh we we really have a lot of fun a lot of memories in that from camping  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's just so it's a lot of work too  
it's uh you know getting ready and taking care of everything  
but it's um it's really refreshing  
so  
i think so  
well it was really good hearing from you  
and   i hope you get back into camping again and do a little more of it  
okay  
thanks a lot  
and you have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
yeah  
what do you where do you like to camp  
how do you like to camp  
i used to uh live in the ozarks and uh   liked to go up there and just take a backpack and   strike out into the woods  
yeah  
i haven't done it in quite awhile   since i moved down here  
but i used to do it   quite a bit  
yeah  
yeah  
it was real hilly  
take a twenty two  
and go out  
take a twenty two  
and find a creek  
i used to go with my brother  
we just lived up there  
yeah  
it gets kind of  
i we used to have one of those little [caves] you can go back in   get out of the rain  
but i don't know much about camping in texas  
you live in pennsylvania  
i didn't know they did this  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm down here at t i  
i used to be in ohio  
it's some pretty country up there  
so  
yeah  
you can get the they have some nice camping grounds   you know that have the water [piped] out  
just set it up  
and get out of get out of the city for awhile  
tell you what  
i'm losing you  
i said i'm losing you  
you're getting you're fading out  
yeah  
so what  
you try to go and take a vacation every year and go out and camp  
yeah  
i know the rain bring out the snakes or used to bring them out in the ozarks  
that's kind of kind of rough when you got to fight snakes off when your sleeping  
uh [copperheads] mostly  
no  
they're  
yeah  
one year they were they were just everywhere  
i don't know what it was  
we had a real rainy spring  
and then it was all year  
there was just [copperheads] everywhere  
yeah  
well i lived down in down in the bottom of a big hollow  
and we had to pretty much hike out most of the time  
if it rained we were stuck back in there  
had a four wheel drive  
you just get used to it  
yeah  
yeah  
this cave that we used to go in was little  
it was small  
it was more   it was just big enough for a couple of people to sack out  
yeah  
he's about a year and a half younger  
yeah  
yeah  
it was  
saw a few bears   things like that  
yeah  
yeah  
the first first couple of times it's pretty scary  
but uh   after that you realize they are just as afraid of you too  
but uh  
oh really  
i don't know if  
they don't have them up there do they  
yeah  
oh do they  
yeah  
they down here they they stopped for awhile  
or they really made it hard to hunt them  
i don't know what it's like now  
i haven't been back up there in awhile  
well it's good to get out and smell some fresh air too  
so  
yeah  
well i think we're about to run out of our time  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm sure i will  
you too  
bye  
okay  
i was thinking about camping and different people's ideas about it  
we've even seen people with these campers  
and they got the big old antennas up so they can watch their t v when they're going  
that's not  
yeah  
a satellite dish  
oh golly  
that's not the kind we do  
do you go camping  
well so do we  
in fact when we first got married we would try to take these trips to minnesota to see his family  
and we didn't have a tent or any camping supplies  
so we'd sleep on those picnic tables at [roadside] parks  
i mean i know it's dangerous  
i wouldn't do it now  
but we did  
and one time we went to yellowstone  
and we were doing the same thing  
we couldn't find a place to camp  
and so we were on top of a picnic table with our our sleeping bags i guess  
and this ranger comes up with this light shines it on us and said that we're just bear bait out there we had our food   you know   and told us to get inside our car  
bear bait  
yeah  
yeah  
we've got some land at holly lake   outside of tyler  
and we go up there fairly often  
sometimes we get a lot of people together to do it  
and we've done things like when when it's kind of cold  
we take extension [cords]  
and we've all got [heaters] in our tents  
and in the summer  
same thing we get our extension [cords] running from all these tents  
but we've got the fans going  
so we're not roughing it too much  
and we have taken t v out there for the kids  
and they've got their electrical [hookups]  
so it's not so bad  
i think the longest we've stayed out there is like five days  
and they even they had a library at one time out there  
so that's really not roughing it so much  
but   we have gone on trips where we [bathed] in streams  
that's kind of different  
and a pool to go to  
that would be nice  
uh_huh  
well my husband has even camped at lake lavon   with one of his friends  
he just decided to take the kids out there  
i mean it's not very many miles from our house at all  
but they had the time of their lives you know  
had the boat just pulled up right by the tents  
it wasn't bad  
yeah  
and we've taken   our tents though loaded them up in car carrier and decided we were going to tent most of the way  
and it ended up when it came time for us to pull in for the night we'd take a vote  
and most of the time we decided we wanted to stay in a hotel  
instead of getting out all that stuff you know  
yeah  
then you have to get up the next day and move it on  
huh_uh  
but we're set now  
we've got cook stoves  
and we've got our bug light  
and everybody's got their sleeping bags  
we got air [mattresses]  
we decided that was easier than cots and more comfortable  
yeah  
those double ones  
pretty good  
we're on our third one i think  
somehow  
we've got an electric pump that hooks into the cigarette lighter  
i didn't know you could do that  
yeah  
no joke  
i hope you didn't have a big vacuum cleaner  
yeah  
now we've used a hair dryer before  
but i put it on hot and also melted it  
i found that you don't do that  
i didn't realize it would melt so easily  
i don't know  
yeah  
i don't like it when there's [mosquitos] so bad  
and then one night we were camping  
and it came just a [torrential] [downpour]  
we had the steaks on the grill  
these people were with us  
and it i mean everything was [sopping] wet inside the tent  
it was just that bad you know  
and we decided we'd just go across the road to the office and see if we could rent anything  
so i got a condo with a [jacuzzi]  
and it was wonderful  
yeah  
yeah  
it was  
it's horrible  
you mean that you put on a truck or what  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
how many weeks have you been doing these calls  
i think this must be into my third week too  
so do you work for t i  
in a speech lab  
and what exactly are they going to do  
so any voice no matter what the speech pattern or the [dialect]   or anything  
um i wonder if these are going to be speaking the computers  
oh that's kind of neat  
do you put all the uh [huhs] in here on everything too  
what do you write for [stutter]  
that uh  
uh_huh  
i guess so unless you want to talk about stakes  
what size stakes to put in  
you need metal instead of plastic  
and you make sure that you keep up with them for the next time  
we got one of those kind that have got the  
oh what is it  
they're plastic  
and they've got the elastic on the inside of the poles  
and you just put them together  
and it's a dome tent  
that's good isn't it  
yeah  
um no  
i've done it in a shelter  
it was in padre island and in a   truck off corpus not   but not in a tent  
oh well that's about all  
okay  
uh_huh  
bye  
uh_huh  
right or their   satellite dish  
on top of the recreational vehicles  
yeah  
we have a little bit  
and we've just gotten one of those little tents   that we throw out on the ground  
and that's what we camp in  
so we kind of rough it  
uh_huh  
oh no  
oh  
uh_huh  
gosh bear bait  
that would make me nervous  
have you done any camping around here  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds fun  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
do you go on long  
like a week at a time or just weekends  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i like the campgrounds that have a nice shower  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we've uh   we camped at the [degray] state park in arkansas   in the fall  
and there was nobody else   hardly   around  
and it was just really nice that time of year  
we had taken our electric   blanket too just in case it was [unbearable]  
but we didn't need it  
yeah  
oh really  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
that sounds nice  
yeah  
yeah  
it's a lot of work to set up just for one night  
right  
yeah  
those are nice  
we have one of those too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how do you blow yours up  
oh  
we were looking at those in a magazine  
last time we went we took our vacuum cleaner with us  
and yeah you can if you can reverse the   [nozzle] on your vacuum cleaner  
and it blows air out instead of [sucking] it in  
and you can fill them up that way  
but something that's smaller would be a lot more convenient  
no  
uh_huh  
we have a   my husband and i we have a pickup truck  
so there's plenty of room to hold things  
uh_huh  
oh no  
yeah  
oh  
we take we take our dog camping  
she likes to go out and stay in the woods  
she sleeps she sleeps in the tent with us  
it's fun  
oh me either  
oh no  
uh_huh  
oh boy  
that was lucky  
we've been lucky  
we've never really been rained on the few times we've gone  
oh i bet it  
when we were younger when i was a kid we camped in virginia  
and we had one of those little pop up tents which is really nice because it kind of gets you off the ground  
but it seemed like it rained every weekend for about a the year we were really into camping  
no  
it's a little trailer you pull behind your car  
and uh   you know you the lid pops off  
the little tent comes up the top  
and it had two double beds in it  
oh since the beginning  
i guess it's been two or three weeks  
uh well i work as a temporary in the speech lab  
uh_huh  
where they're doing this program the voice recognition program  
oh they turn them over to somebody  
and they're going to i guess they're going to try to teach computers how to recognize voices and search for specific words and stuff  
right  
yeah  
i don't know  
i type up the tapes of what people talked about  
yeah  
it's sort of interesting  
uh_huh  
everything like that  
all the little [stutters] and everything  
like if they say i i we just type it in like that  
well i guess that's it for camping uh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
that's what we have too  
yeah  
that's what ours is  
yeah  
yeah  
they pop up pretty fast  
have you ever camped on sand  
that can be a mess  
we camped at the beach one time  
and that was sort of miserable  
you just  
everywhere you went there was sand  
you couldn't  
even when you're eating  
it it was in your bed  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
okay  
well it's good talking to you  
bye  
i don't know um  
do you do a lot of camping  
yeah  
oh so  
yeah  
um up here some of the state parks are really nice  
and some of them aren't  
some of them are pretty rough  
um yeah  
they they just have like [outhouses]  
they don't have like a shower room or anything  
yeah  
but some of them are really nice  
they have showers and full bathrooms  
um but i don't know  
i i've been camping a couple times  
but i'm not a real avid camper uh  
a lot of people i know are  
but um i don't i don't  
yeah  
we went we went once to a lean to  
and it um  
i mean there wasn't any electricity on the camp site  
but it was all right  
we only spent two nights there  
i wouldn't want to spend more than two nights  
i wouldn't want to go for like a week  
but um   two nights is good  
um especially there was a little store close by  
so it was pretty nice  
oh really  
oh  
um yeah  
up here you got to wait until august until the water warms up  
well it's not that bad  
but it's still pretty chilly  
um i don't know  
i was i have a tent  
and i fluff out in it in the backyard and stuff  
but this thing about camping that bothers me is you've got to pack everything  
and another thing is the thing seems to get  
it's dirty you know  
so you can't keep the dirt out of the tent  
i don't know  
we have a seven year old  
it's pretty funny  
like stay out  
yeah  
boy he doesn't go in and out of the tent a hundred times   and use it as a play uh  
they like to play in them  
yeah  
i don't know  
yeah  
well what we were doing we were just going to say we're just going to sleep in the tent and hang out at night so you know no going in and out and or what he wants to do  
we had brought his friend along was play in the tent  
it was like no this is not working  
you can't do that  
you get the tent all dirty  
plus you get it all wet  
we were at a beach site too  
no  
but you know i was just thinking of getting one those for the yard because they are really nice  
and um up here we have uh we have quite a few mosquitoes at nighttime  
they're terrible  
they're really terrible  
uh but there's this one campsite that it  
just some of them are known  
but there is one that's out in this big lake  
and it's it's it's mosquitoes are terrible  
and then there's this there's this other one that's more up in the mountains  
but it surrounds a man made reservoir  
and there's no bugs  
that's the whole thing that everyone told me oh  
i'm i was going to go to little river state park  
that place is great  
there's no bugs  
but oh  
okay  
because uh we were having a really big problem up here in certain areas  
we were really affected bad by it but really got it um  
almost destroyed the the tourism in one town because of the mosquitoes  
they're so bad  
yeah  
that was it's a really nice area  
i've been there before  
and it's  
i i couldn't imagine living just sixty miles north of them  
but they were plagued they were plagued with them with mosquitoes  
and you can go out outside in the daytime all right  
but the minute the sun went down um that's when it's usually the minute the sun sets the mosquitoes come out  
i mean just the very second  
it's really strange  
they uh they must uh work on that you know  
the it gets cooler when the sun sets  
and then they all come out  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i never really noticed how effective they were  
but um because that wasn't really  
i bought them  
i really didn't get to use them like oh there's mosquitoes let's turn them  
we just sort of lit them  
and um we weren't bothered that much by mosquitoes  
so we didn't really contribute it to that  
but um i think in an area that's really thick with mosquitoes  
i can't see all this little uh smoke buckets i call them  
they work  
but they're suppose to work really well  
oh i'm in my paperwork here  
that's what i do when i wait for a phone call  
i get in my paperwork oh to find my most important parts  
but i don't know i don't know if i'm going to go  
i wish was an avid camper  
and i could really talk about like gardening or something  
you can talk about that a lot  
but um i do want to go again  
we just moved to a new into a house  
so i don't think camping  
maybe in the backyard  
but i don't see going on a camping trip probably until next summer  
so it's easy for you to go  
um oh god  
i don't know  
but that sounds that my my kind of camping it really does  
yeah  
okay um well um  
that is is to have a a nice vehicle where you can have everything in it plus your tent  
yep  
um  
well those they're kind of nice  
but they're also um [flimsy] when you really look at them  
but when you get inside they're really nice you know  
everything's really  
but then when you look underneath them it's just got these little wheels and this little [axle]  
it's like oh my  
and then a big [windstorm] it would pick you up  
oh jeez  
yeah  
what do you what do you do when you get a i mean like a really violent storm like a tornado  
just stay in your truck  
i mean i wouldn't stay in the um  
oh  
so then were they successful  
but it took them a little while  
yeah  
so did they get stuck  
yeah huh  
well so they [evacuated] it  
wow  
yeah  
i know i always i like to get right on the water  
yeah  
by the campsite it's so  
we have lean [tos] up here  
i really like them  
like i say they're kind of just kind of more sturdy than anything you know  
just just  
yeah  
they're they're lean [tos]  
they're um   yeah they're pretty nice  
they're they're uh it's like a little house except the whole face is open  
and the one time that we went we got one  
it was overlooking the water  
but it was a big [embankment]  
i wanted to get one right on the water  
we had an electrical storm too  
and it was really it was neat sitting there watching it  
i mean it was raining  
when we called home everybody said oh we were worried about you in that storm  
well my husband and i haven't done a whole lot of camping  
we but we bought a van last year  
and we were hoping uh to do some camping in the van um  
we did go camping in not arkansas oklahoma  
uh last year in we camped in a tent  
and uh there were two other couples with us  
and there was uh state park  
and it was really nice  
really  
um  
i i don't like really camping in the rough  
i like the the the little necessities like having electricity available and running water and showers and things like that  
yeah  
that would that would be much  
yeah  
the campsite that we went to was an area that  
it's right on a big lake  
and there's a lot of boating out there  
and we we went up there to hopefully be able to get on the water a little bit  
but it was still uh it was still too cold  
yeah  
it it was pretty early in the year  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we we have we have a dog  
and that's just about as bad as a kid  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know how you can really keep uh the inside of a tent clean  
other than you know taking your shoes off right before you walk in or something and and sweeping it out everyday it's really hard to to keep the sand and dirt out of it  
did  
uh_huh  
um did you have another a big tent like uh um like a looks like a sitting area type you know like a two room type  
yeah  
yeah  
we don't really have a problem with that um in these areas um  
and even even when in oklahoma when we camped i really didn't notice a problem with bugs  
and i noticed that  
i know that i said that's  
i've i've lived back east before um they  
huh  
really  
huh  
well have you ever have you ever taken any of those um what do they call this lights  
have you ever used those  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'd i'd like to go camping cross country um  
i just got married less than two years ago  
so we don't have any any children yet um  
yeah  
so easy to pick up and go and  
we have a van  
and we can just throw a couple of sleeping bags in the back of it  
so it's not really i guess camping the way most people picture camping in the tent  
but  
yeah  
or or get  
my brother has a real nice pop up  
and he just he just tows it behind his truck  
and he he's got three kids  
so his kids will sleep in the truck in the in the back of the bed  
um and they sleep in the pop up  
yeah  
yeah  
he did have a problem uh when he went camping last year in [beavers] bend oklahoma um  
a a storm came in  
and it started raining really heavy  
and they were all everybody was trying to [flee] the campsite  
everybody was getting stuck in the mud  
and uh  
well theirs was so bad  
and they were so close to the water that the water was coming up  
and they had to get out of there  
yeah  
they yeah they were  
but yeah  
they they decided that that was enough camping for the weekend  
no  
they ended up getting out  
they ended up helping several other people though that were that were stuck  
yeah  
yeah  
they the whole the whole campsite was [evacuated]  
i mean some i think some people that had fairly sturdy um vehicles or whatever if they had like a winnebago or something and they were farther in away from the water i think they stayed  
but everybody that was real close to the water ended up  
it was either that or their truck was going to go floating downstream  
yeah  
they have them right at the [campsites]  
wow  
okay  
well there there are quite a few um parks i guess state parks  
and there's a couple of national parks i guess that you can camp at  
um most of them have pretty good facilities  
i don't know if the camping that i've done is really roughing it without a a whole lot of stuff  
uh done a little bit of that mainly just um like camping out at the state parks  
i've been to a couple in texas  
and there's some real nice ones in arkansas  
um i think arkansas has one of the best parks departments around  
uh_huh  
yeah  
part of them are  
yeah  
they've got uh real nice lake system and around their parks  
one of them uh the gray i think that's one of the ones we've been to it's real nice there a bunch of lakes around it  
there's a golf course and um just a whole bunch of camping sites  
what about you  
where have you uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think we've collected stuff off and on over the years  
the more times we did it the more serious we get about it  
where where is raleigh in north carolina  
okay  
are you kind of away from the blue ridge mountains  
an area  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my wife's from the western part of virginia  
we've been down the parkway a lot  
but i didn't know how much how much camping areas there were along there  
what what's it like camping in the desert and california  
that seems   like a challenge  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
are the temperatures real extreme there  
or the the  
uh_huh  
yeah  
true  
yeah  
yeah  
we've talked about planning a trip up through um  
i have a sister in law that lives in new mexico up through new mexico and into colorado and the grand canyon area  
i don't know don't know when i'm going to get a chance to do that  
but  
uh_huh  
i'll bet  
that one one thing you said about the stars is really true  
it's  
when you're close to a big city like dallas the the lights kind of wash   wash off the star  
so it's nice to to get away  
it's just amazing   how how much you miss  
huh uh_huh  
well i guess we've talked as much as we need to on the subject  
yeah  
it was good talking to you robert  
bye bye  
all right  
what uh what kind of camping is there in texas  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so you do uh like backpacking and the like  
uh_huh  
huh  
is the ozarks in arkansas  
yeah  
so that's probably a pretty nice place to go  
yeah  
oh i've been camping for years not on a regular basis  
but uh i first started camping out in the desert in california   and then sometimes in the mountains also in california  
and uh then i moved to north carolina  
and i i didn't camp for a long time  
and then i started to uh go camping again kind of in conjunction with white water rafting  
so i'd go up somewhere and camp overnight and then do some rafting  
and then maybe camp another night and drive home  
and that was uh that was pretty good  
so i went out and bought a whole bunch of camping gear  
and uh you know i still do it once in a while  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh well it's it's uh in terms of north south i would say it's uh a little a little more towards the northern border of the state and pretty much in the eastern half of it  
so what  
well it   it's uh  
actually the the blue ridge in virginia are closer to raleigh  
they're about three hours away if you go due north  
um of  
the blue ridge in north carolina i think are much nicer  
and you can pick those up going west  
but then you're talking about six to eight hours  
the way it works  
but um it's a real it's a real nice place to go and camp  
and there's some pretty decent campgrounds although i don't think raleigh i don't think the state of north carolina takes  
they probably just don't spend as much money as a lot of other states might  
i think there's quite a few  
i can't say i've checked them all out though  
it's uh   it's actually kind of incredible  
it's really really nice  
um i like it better than almost anything i've ever done  
just the sky is so amazing  
you know you really can probably count thousands of stars  
and uh it's it's just kind of nice  
i like the uh  
i think the desert has a rare kind of beauty which uh a lot of people don't realize  
you know they hear desert  
and they think of [scorpions] and snakes and sand and being real dry and lack of water  
course it it has all of those qualities  
but it also has a certain quality of beauty that you just don't find anyway else except in a desert  
so it's pretty nice  
the uh the movie the doors has some nice desert scenes  
those guys all go camping out in the desert  
of course they drag a lot of drugs with them  
but um the uh the shots are are pretty nice  
and it's sort of like that  
i mean it's just almost [surreal] in some places  
it's very pleasant  
they can be  
yeah  
i mean you got to you sort of have to choose your season carefully and know what's going to happen  
i've been camping in death valley  
one doesn't go in july  
but it's beautiful in february  
i mean it's just beautiful  
the days get up into the high eighties uh maybe the nineties  
but it's it's quite [bearable]  
and then the nights are reasonably warm you know sixties or seventies  
it's just great  
it's really very nice  
yeah  
well that would be that would be pretty nice  
i've been i have been camping on the south rim the grand canyon  
that's okay  
a lot of people like to go down and camp down inside  
i was just too lazy that trip to do all that walking   especially with my gear  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it  
yeah  
it  
yeah  
it really is  
i mean i don't think i ever see the little [dipper]  
you hear people talk about the little [dipper]  
but i don't think i ever see it except when i go get out of the city and go camping in the desert or in in the mountains  
otherwise it's just too faint  
yeah  
i think we fulfilled our obligation  
well thanks for calling  
nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
do you go camping very much  
uh we try to go once maybe twice a summer uh   we uh just you know for like a short weekend or something  
we don't go for the long you know week long thing  
but we usually go to uh a lake area you know where the [campsites]   are and do that uh  
oh no  
no  
no  
a tent  
me too  
you're really roughing it  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
are you here in local texas  
i mean  
i'm in garland  
right outside of dallas  
so we um we have a five year old  
and we started taking her she was pretty young when we started uh camping with her  
i know  
i know  
and then they and they you know  
there's no t v  
and they don't have all these modern toys  
and they have to use sticks and rocks and stuff like   that to play with  
and i like that  
it's pretty fun  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we we try to uh go with another couple that have children also  
and uh that makes it a lot more enjoyable  
plus you know we don't have to go out and buy all the equipment and stuff you know  
we kind of split it up uh  
yeah  
because it gets it really does get expensive if you if you don't want to rough it all the way  
you know even the sleeping bags those are running you know a good thirty dollars a pop  
and   and so we've built that up  
but  
no  
want one bad  
do you  
oh  
yes  
yeah  
i would too  
would too  
we usually  
uh let's see  
we try to go to a lake  
my husband and this uh other couple that we go with her husband um kind of likes um is it scuba dive  
and so we'll go to a lake and uh where they can go do that  
we're close enough so they can do that  
and the girls can play on the beach area  
yeah  
yeah  
that's fun  
really  
am i pretty texan  
no  
you don't you don't sound like it to me  
oh have you  
yeah  
yes  
oh that's true  
that's true  
i see i don't think i do  
but uh but a lot of people do say i sound like  
i guess i have i guess more of a twang   to my voice  
i sure am  
i've lived here all my life  
but any way uh  
yes  
yes  
we went last summer actually  
or is there  
okay  
well we didn't go camping  
we just uh we did like uh we drove down to houston to visit friends  
and   we went to galveston and uh to san antonio and then up to austin and and kind of uh you know doing the sight seeing type stuff  
so we didn't go camping  
that would be fun though to go  
that's one thing my husband wanted to do was on this summer's vacation was to go and camp wherever we went  
and i said well i'd love that  
but  
it does  
and and ever once you know on my summer vacation you know my week long vacation i   want to be a little bit pampered you know by a   hotel and a waiter  
so we're hoping to do like a three day weekend  
there's um a thing called [pfeiffer] rim  
i don't know if you have ever heard of it  
it's uh there's a town called [glenrose]  
i think it's around two hours from here  
and uh it's it has like dinosaur tracks   and stuff like that  
and it's got one of those wildlife parks  
yeah  
i think that'll be fun  
so we're going to try to do that like on a three day weekend go there  
and  
no  
i haven't  
where at  
is it  
i've just been up there skiing  
and well we've driven through  
and   you know  
but but not you know camping or anything  
but i would love to camp   in the mountains  
that's what my girlfriend says  
yes  
she loves that place  
she loves that  
she says that where we need to go sometime  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
i love that  
that's neat  
that's neat  
i used to go camping all the time as a a girl scout  
all the time i got real used to it then  
i felt like we roughed it then  
right  
yes  
exactly  
i mean we had to make the fires and dig [latrines] and everything  
you have to get poison ivy and all that good stuff   to really be camping  
yeah  
well do you you you say you haven't been in years  
oh gosh bless your heart  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't blame you  
i don't blame you at all  
years ago it would have been fine  
but  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
i  
i can imagine  
no  
i don't blame you not nowadays  
yeah  
now are you with t i down there  
good  
have you  
okay  
oh  
oh that's neat  
um it's hard isn't it  
now how old are your girls  
oh goodness  
no  
you're not old  
you're not old at all  
sure  
oh okay  
do you need to go  
yeah  
that's very smart  
yeah  
me too  
and good luck  
how many have you made so far calls  
oh have you  
they're all  
this is only about my second one i've ever made  
i've been a [recipient] on the others  
how many have you had so far do you know  
four  
that's good  
very good  
yes  
yeah  
i don't  
yeah  
you bet  
you bet  
i know  
yes  
i always try to find out where they're from   you know  
cause because it is neat  
it really is  
well then i guess i'll let you go so you can go get the door  
and  
you me too  
thanks  
okay  
thank you  
bye bye  
no  
i've haven't gone camping in years  
but it's is something that i've done in the past  
how about you  
that's that's pretty average to me  
uh_huh  
right  
do you tent camp  
or do you have a camper  
that's what i you know  
that's how i camp too  
that's how i define camping  
the rest the rest of that is really not the same  
as a matter of fact my my you know the majority of the amount of camping i've done has been really roughing it  
um as a little girl i'd go with my dad and my uncle and my brother  
and we went to the [boundary] waters area in minnesota  
so   that's that's really wild  
yes  
i'm in austin  
where are you  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh the kids love it  
i mean they just love it  
it's wonderful for them to be outside  
exactly  
yes  
well how it  
it's really is a is a good good family thing   to do  
yeah  
and  
uh_huh  
good planning  
exactly  
you're right  
do you have a boat  
no  
oh well actually i would you know what i would love  
i would absolutely love a sail boat  
that doesn't go along with camping  
but   now that that that's what i would like   to have  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and i would play on the beach area too  
that's what i would do  
yeah  
i'm just sitting here listening to your accent and thinking what a good time the computer is going to have with that  
you're pretty texan  
yes  
but you know you know what's really funny  
um i've had people tell me that i have a texas accent  
and and i mean there is just no way i've not picked one up  
i've only lived here about six years  
so if i have one it must be very very slight  
the yankees can hear it  
uh_huh  
are you a a native texan  
oh  
well good for you  
have you ever been to austin  
this  
how was  
i'm wondering i'm really not that not familiar  
i know there are some good places to go camping along the uh the lakes  
uh_huh  
it takes a lot more planning  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
exactly  
yeah  
no  
i haven't  
oh that sounds   that sounds great  
have you ever camped out of state  
you know where you should try   sometime is colorado  
it is beautiful  
absolutely beautiful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
estes state park is fantastic  
see you need to go there  
it is it's you know it's it's high canyon  
and uh and there's this little mountain lakes  
and it's very peaceful  
and um in in the early fall time  
um i can't remember what type of trees they are  
but they all the leaves turn yellow  
and it's just brilliant  
and  
yes  
you would  
you'd like it very much  
i know you would  
i was too  
yeah  
uh well we did you know  
we really did  
i mean i just don't understand these people that think taking an r v   and parking it and sitting inside and watching t v   and having your microwave  
it's not camping  
right  
right  
i mean that is it  
right  
oh  
no  
i haven't  
i'm um i'm a struggling single mom  
and uh  
thank you  
um it's you know  
time is precious  
money's precious  
um and it it  
i think i haven't been able to do it  
and you know what that was one of the things i really thought i'd like to do with my children   you know again  
and i'm a little bit fearful of trying that just women  
you know  
i hope  
yes  
i i really now  
i i have gone on one little vacation just the girls and i  
we drove down to port aransas   and rented a little efficiency you know   and and had a marvelous like two nights  
and that was great  
and even at that it it was like the first time that i ventured   you know out of the city by myself  
and and you know i i stayed in a nice place  
but it's still it's real different not to have another adult with you  
you know  
i'm just a chicken  
i know lots of women would do it all the time  
i haven't quite adjusted you know  
well i i was with t i until january  
i uh i left t i in january hoping to strike out and find a job where i could make some money  
so well it's   it was a good plan but i haven't yet  
i got into sales  
and   i'm selling uh telephone systems  
and it's it's fun  
and it's interesting  
but it's also um pretty challenging  
and i haven't i haven't started making money yet  
so yeah  
it's it's hard  
eleven and fourteen  
yeah  
so i'm old  
well excuse me just second  
honey i'll be  
yeah  
go ahead  
there's someone at the door  
well um i'm going to listen  
we always check and see if we should answer the door   at night  
yeah  
so well i've enjoyed this  
and uh  
i i haven't made any  
i've been just a [recipient]  
i think i've had about four  

yeah  
that's four each  
well you know when i had to  
this is my my [gemini] nature you know  
it's like what are you interested in  
and it's like virtually anything  
i'll talk about anything to anybody  
and it's it's been real interesting the different personalities   that i run across  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well thank you  
and um i enjoyed talking with you  
you have a good time camping  
when you go next time   think of me  
all right  
bye bye  
all right  
i i think our experience of camping is  
i i am the the passive member  
i get things ready and then i enjoy  
uh because my my husband is a good camper  
and so they  
he manages the troops  
and they do the work  
and i have fun  
that's when we camped the most  
when  
i thinks it's a marvelous activity for younger families because uh   i it seems like i would go through a period of time where i just uh was really overworked you know  
and and getting out into nature and relaxing   and having the family do a good share of the work you know  
and the part that i did was more fun than uh than labor because they did the the running and [toting] chores and i just helped cook and kind of organize you know  
it is  
isn't it  
it isn't  
what kinds of things have you tried  
have you done uh uh uh the big pot cooking  
oh yeah  
big frying  
oh that's interesting  
you know interesting enough uh the food part was kind of uh important thing in our camping  
uh when my oldest son uh  
always at the beginning i did all the shopping and everything  
but the the neat breakthrough was when my oldest son mark took his uh uh cooking merit badge in  
and and mark was the kind of camper who ate beef [stroganoff]  
and uh   i mean you know he did it up really good  
and so uh after he took that merit badge he did all the shopping and preparing getting ready for it  
it was it was a marvelous experience because after that then all i had to do was uh follow the instructions you know and do  
and we did a lot of interesting kinds of things  
like i would take corn bread and uh cook a pan inside of a pan over a over a camp uh stove  
and it works real good  
it's like an oven  
just put uh put a thing on it  
what did you like to do most  
that's neat isn't it  
right  
i agree  
huh  
well now in florida is is there are there times of the year when it's very comfortable to camp or is it always kind of hot  
uh_huh  
oh is that true  
now now we're we're in texas now  
and you're in texas  
right  
okay uh  
we have not camped a great deal here because uh a good share of the time in the summer time it's too hot really to be very comfortable camping  
i  
yeah  
yeah  
we have done that  
but but we camped mostly  
when the kids were little we were in we were in new jersey and   uh in uh [allendale] and uh and uh [waldwick]  
it's just about twelve miles south of the new york border  
and we'd go up to the [adirondacks] and camp  
and it was so you know pick your own uh blueberries and make blueberry [pancakes] for breakfast  
uh also  
go ahead  
oh are you  
where did you live  
oh oh yeah  
i know that  
i had a cousin who lived in white plains  
that's a that's a neat area  
but it's a that is a particularly neat area for camping because  
yeah  
it is neat though because there are lots of lakes fairly near by  
you don't have to go very far  
and uh and there's uh a lot of trees lot of mountains and lot of uh hiking sort of things  
and and we had uh collapsible boat which we clipper little clipper sail boat  
and so we would sail and and uh did a lot of camping that way  
oh do you  
we've gotten out a time or two on a rented basis  
and it's fun too i think  
do you  
that's neat  
so you kind of uh uh an everyday camper  
a full time camper  
well now are you living alone now  
or  
you and your dog huh  
hey  
that sounds great  
well we don't we don't camp quite as much as we used to  
but uh i still think it's a great way to spend a time with your family   and enjoy nature and uh kind of wipe out the stress of everyday life  
i'd always  
right  
i'd always come home just relaxed and uh comfortable and ready to go at it again  
so it was a neat activity  
good to talk to you  
tell me your name again  
jack  
all right  
yes  
we've been here  
we're we're in plano  
but we've been here about uh eighteen years  
are you are you  
how about that  
well we're all lots of people from t i up this way  
all right  
good to talk to you  
all right  
all right  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh uh your you said your family was uh all grown up now  
how about when they were younger  
did you go take them camping  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
even cooking over an open fire is a little more fun isn't it  
oh oh uh well it was really my ex who did the the uh uh the cooking back when we first started  
and we found that the you know what was one one great handy things was this uh uh uh hamburger helper   because all you needed was a big frying pan  
you dumped everything in together  
and it was enough for all five of us six of us  
oh  
well that's great  
uh_huh  
well   cooking was our secondary interest  
i mean  
well really just [commune] with nature  
we started out uh  
well we were living in florida at the time  
and we early in life we discovered that six people all going on vacation gets to be very very expensive  
so my ex decided we're going to try camping  
and she went out one day on the spur of the moment and bought a tent  
and that's how we got started  
we did it for years and years uh  
well uh  
yes and no  
i mean um in the winter time yes  
it's it gets kind of chilly or it can get chilly  
but uh there's really no time of the year that you can't go  
uh  
yes  
i'm in dallas  
well it just depends on where you go  
for instance   if you went down to the sea shore it would be wonderful a nice breeze blowing in from the water  
oh where abouts   uh_huh  
oh yes  
yes  

i   i come from up in that area  
i'm a new yorker myself  
a little town called [tuckaho] over by white plains  
well that i wouldn't know  
i left there when i was quite young  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh me i outgrew uh sleeping bags and uh tents  
and i now have a motor home  
well i live in mine  
yes  
uh well yes  
i consider myself what they call a full timer  
yeah  


well just me and my dog  
yeah  
oh yes  
definitely  
nothing like the fresh outdoors  
jack  
uh_huh  
are you uh from dallas too beth  
oh  
well that's where we that's where i am  
plano  
uh_huh  
nice talking to you too beth  
bye  
there a lot of places to camp in dallas  
uh_huh  
do you do a lot of camping  
uh_huh  
well that must have been fun though  
uh_huh  
well that sounds fun  
yeah  
we've done ours  
i've only been camping twice  
and one of them i don't really consider camping  
it was on the edge of the lake  
and it was at a camp  
i don't like those camping grounds   where you know you got r v beside you and then another people in tents beside you  
i just don't care for that  
uh_huh  
right  
well it doesn't uh  
we uh  
four years ago  
it was about four years ago my little boy was three months old  
and the first time i left him we went overnight camping  
and we went and we found this little peninsula out in the middle of nowhere by the lake  
and we had a ball  
just sat out there with our  
we didn't even use tents then  
we just had uh sleeping bags   and fire going  
and we fried potatoes and bacon and everything for breakfast the next morning  
oh it did  
it did  
i didn't even think about frying potatoes  
but my sister in law she's always done a lot of camping  
and she's good  
she'd think about bringing a rake so you can rake your area out  
and yeah  
uh_huh  
well  
yeah  
she was she is always prepared  
i mean she brought everything from like i said toilet paper to the rake  
the only thing we'd had to do we had to go out looking for some kind of a grill you know  
we and we and we seen this old refrigerator that somebody had dumped  
and we broke the i guess it's the freezing [component]  
and we broke that out of there and put it over our um hole  
yeah  
well it held our pan and you know the potatoes and stuff  
we had a good time  
yeah  
we're still waiting to go again  
uh_huh  
arkansas  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
pretty  
well i love to swim  
so i like to get out by a lake   or a uh you know somewhere close   where we can swim  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how old are your boys  
oh so they don't go camping with you  
oh  
yeah  
well i haven't taken my little boy yet  
i'm afraid to get him out  
he is so [fearless] he it [terrifies] me  
he  
think so  
well it's the water he's not scared of  
he'll go out into it until it's up to his nose   and then try to tread back  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
if you know what to look for  
well that sounds so neat  
yeah  
well i'm impressed  
my mother in law  
and my  
well they've always done a lot of camping  
i grew up in louisville kentucky  
and there wasn't  
i don't know  
but we just didn't get out  
my mother and my father split up when we were young  
so and my mother wasn't into that  
and that's who i stayed with  
so we didn't do much outdoors stuff except swimming  
and we went swimming a lot  
and uh-oh excuse me my baby's getting sick  
i know  
yeah  
um i've got to clean her up  
i'm sorry  
appreciate it  
i enjoyed talking  
thank you  
bye bye  
well not necessarily in dallas  
but it's a very short drive to areas near here  
well i have done camping in the past  
uh i can't remember when the last time i actually went camping was  
it was uh several years ago  
and then i did most of my camping in the mountains  
well it is  
i enjoy hiking and camping  
we went to the  
i have uh some land there  
and so it's it's handy to to station yourself there on the land   and then make trips up into the mountains for backpacking and hiking and and overnight camping  
do you do most of yours in tents  
oh wow  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i agree with you  
i think it's much nicer when you can really get out far enough away where   that you can't see people   right out the window  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
doesn't that always taste so much better   when you're out like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
if you don't you'll find every rock on it when you   put your when you put your bag down  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh what a clever idea  
i wouldn't have thought about that  
oh that's a good idea  
uh_huh  
well if you get a chance  
now there are some really nice camping areas uh up in the [wichitas] which is in oklahoma   and uh arkansas  
i can't remember the name  
it's it's on the oklahoma arkansas border  
and it won't take but just a you know just a quick look at a map to find where those mountains are  
but i took a drive up through there as a matter of fact last september just took the drive through to see what was there  
they have some wonderful camping areas there  
beautiful beautiful country  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
well lake lake tawakoni is a pretty nice place  
and we had a two bedroom mobile home there  
but the boys still liked to throw their sleeping bags out by the lake and   build a little fire and roast their marshmallows until the [mosquitos] bit   and then they came in  
oh oh they're grown now  
they go camping on their own  
once you start them they enjoy it all their lives  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh don't be concerned  
there's much less for them to get hurt on camping than there is elsewhere  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it's easy to keep him occupied though on land  
i know that i took my kids we'd go out  
and i've them walk with me along the [lakefront]  
and we'd have a little contest finding the [tiniest] shell and finding the biggest shell  
and or we'd hunt pine cones   or we climbed some uh [pinon] pines one year and gathered the cones so that we could eat the pine nuts  
and we did a lot of [naturalist] work when we were out  
we you know we   we searched for  
and we ate the wild plants  
and we gathered wild berries  
and uh it's really you know  
the the mountains can accommodate you if you know what to find  
uh_huh  
i had my boys build their own little you know three leg camp [stools] by cutting a branch off the tree and [binding] them together with bark  
and uh we cooked in a pot  
i baked them a cake right there on a camp fire  
they were so impressed  
i used a tire chain and the bottom of a dutch oven  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh-oh  
well if our time is up we can quit  
okay  
uh_huh  
you bet  
bye bye  
okay  
wow i don't know what that was  
i don't know  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
uh we have not camped in any of those places  
in fact it has been a number of years since we have camped  
but we used to go to tyler state park and uh [daingerfield]  
and in texas that is where we camp basically uh  
they are very nice  
tyler is really really a neat place to camp  
it has a nice little lake  
and it has some really wonderful uh sights that are in the wooded areas  
uh the facilities are quite nice  
and our children liked liked it quite well  
uh the kids are well they are quite a bit younger than  
and you know they  
we felt real safe with their being able to do what they would like to do there in the area  
and uh it was just it was just a really nice place to camp  
uh now [daingerfield] is  
let's see  
i think that's a little bit more east further east and and maybe south if i am remembering where that is  
no  
i think it's a little bit further north when i think about it  
at any rate it was it was very nice as well  
but tyler we sort of got spoiled with i think  
but uh we had lived in michigan before we came here and uh had done a lot of camping in michigan  
i think the upper peninsula of michigan especially  
and then also we had done some camping in colorado in the mountains  
so uh my parents were real avid campers  
and my husband's parents were really avid campers as well  
so i guess we just kind of came by it naturally  
do you have a large tent  
or  
uh_huh  
and how many does it sleep uh comfortably  
right  
yeah  
well sort of early on especially as our children got a little bit bigger uh we invested in some [stacking] uh cots you know that were like bunk bunk beds  
but they were cots fold up cots  
that really gave us a lot more space um floor space and so you did not have to be constantly getting things off the floor in order to walk around  
and  
uh gave us a place to stack things during the day  
so that was real nice  
but uh we uh  
like my in laws also had a camper or uh a pop up tent you know one of those trailer tops  
and those are really nice too  
a little more uh [luxurious] so to speak but not much  
yes  
uh_huh  
it's really nice  
in fact it even had had a little refrigerator uh and the whole business  
it was quite nice in that respect  
uh and everything was very convenient  
and you did not have to to be hauling things out of your the trunk of you car  
and that was nice  
so uh do you have plans for for any other camping trips in the near future  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
oh yes  
yes  
yes  
i have been in that area  
that is a really pretty state park  
uh just  
we did not camp there  
but we drove through it just one time when we were in that area  
and it's real lovely  
it's close to the lake and close to  
i think it's close to the dam up there  
so it's it's really quite pretty  
uh are you um  
let's see what was  
i was going to ask you something else  
oh do you have a favorite among all those that you have been to  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh is it true that caddo lake is the only natural lake in the state of texas  
i i would  
i have never been there  
and i would love to see what it looks like  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
how interesting  
i guess i never heard the history of that  
huh well that might be some place where my husband and i can go  
we are talking about starting camping again in the fall  
um our children are both grown  
and and so it's just pretty much the two of us who do things  
and so uh we thought we might take some weekend trips and maybe that would be a good place to to go to and see what it looks like  
yeah  
yeah  
is it  
uh yeah  
i think so  
especially with uh uh  
when the trees start [blossoming] out and everything it is really very pretty  
especially in east texas it's really nice  
so uh well i um i have enjoyed talking with you  
and um have uh some happy camping trips  
hope you get to those places you have talked about  
well okay  
thanks  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
what was that  
and uh to uh the brazos river   near dinosaur valley state park  
uh_huh  
what are they like  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it was a nine by twelve  
uh_huh  
well there well supposedly  
they always say it sleeps more than it does  
but they  
it would have slept three adults anyway  
yeah  
right  
do they have a kitchen in them  
trunk of your car all time right  
uh maybe uh maybe back to caddo or   uh [purdis] creek  
or i like bob [sandlin] too  
it's a new park  
and there is uh not really camping  
but uh  
what is it called cedar hill  
lake joe pool  
and sometime i like to go to eisenhower up on lake texoma  
oh from those three  
just just uh from when i have been an adult i like caddo the best  
yeah  
that's right  
it's not it's not very deep  
and they did build a dam on it  
but it was there before they built the dam  
it has been there for a hundred years  
apparently an earth [quake] caused it  
yeah  
yeah  
it's really nice  
and i i don't know  
probably spring is probably the [busiest] time anywhere in texas  
right  
it was nice talking to you  
yeah  
you too  
bye  
hi  
i'm wondering what what camping means to you  
oh very good  
that's sort of the same thing that that i do  
i don't think of um trailers and campers and all this stuff  
um do you do much camping  
oh you've never been camping  
oh gee  
well um yes and no  
and the uh  
i haven't done much recently  
but um up until gee maybe five or six years ago i did a lot of it  
and you know i've  
say  
no um  
i used to live abroad  
and so i i camped a lot in um the middle east  
and i was able to camp right in ruins which was always very exciting   and a bit exotic   for those who love bugs  
but   um and then when i used to come back to the states in summer we'd often go up um to the lake country in new york   with my brother's family and and do camping there  
and you're not going  
oh that's too bad  
oh gee  
i guess it makes a difference  
i grew up camping being in girl scouts and things like that  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's too bad  
i think you know there's certainly a lot of aspects you would like  
but maybe not the you know the canada men's trip but some other you know  
a nice tent on the the shore of a lake  
and  
right  
the the the no telephone the  
gee whiz you go to bed when it gets dark  
and you get up when it gets light  
yeah  
and um i guess just just the change   from the rat race  
no  
it's uh it's pretty isolated um  
and to me i like that i guess too although there are people  
i mean you know it's really hard to get away  
and i guess when when we did sites in in the middle east of course it was with a group in order to make it safe  
but i mean we'd go in different parts of the ruins and and things like that  
but we didn't even have tents there  
we just sort of put out the sleeping roll  
right  
right  
actually i just joined um the appalachian trail walking club or whatever they call it  
what  
uh   and i'm very eager to to start uh  
i love to walk  
and um i'm going to start with day trips though because i don't know the territory and all  
and i'm not sure  
my son is not eager to go  
and   you know i think that that that might be a little eerie at first going alone  
oh but you know i'm going to try  
well gee whiz  
i hope you get into camping some day just slowly  
oh yeah  
right  
i think that you know  
i guess one time recently we went up to maine and had planned to camp  
and you know the only site left when we got there was in the middle of a field  
and i said gee whiz for twenty dollars we can go down the road and get a a motel   which we did  
and so that you know  
if the setting was right and that it's it's great  
but if it's  
hi  
when i think of camping i think of of bugs and sleeping bags and and tents uh like along the appalachian trail  
no  
i have never been camping  
no  
do you do much  
really  
where you live now  
or   did you camp up in maryland  
or  
oh okay  
oh i bet  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
well my uh husband and and his uncle especially uh grew up camping together  
and uh they they just love it  
and they're planning a trip uh into canada this i guess in about a year  
and they're going to spend about a week and a half camping up there  
no  
this is this is a a man's trip  
so they're really looking forward to that  
so  
and see i was i was never exposed to it  
so  
i i feel like i'm a little bit too uh much of a city city mouse to try doing it  
what's the best part about it to to you the the quiet the getting away  
wow  
now do you usually like do you usually go and there's lots of other people around  
or is it pretty much isolated  
yeah  
yes  
oh good grief  
that that does sound neat  
but i don't think i i've got quite enough nerve to do that  
i know my husband's gone uh for several days on the appalachian trail before  
and he said that you can a lot of times you can go for you know a good day before you'll see or meet anybody else on the trail  
so it's not for the faint of heart i don't think  
oh  
uh_huh  
i think it would be  
yeah  
well that sounds really neat  
well   i don't know uh  
we talk about sometimes going up to [chincoteague]  
and uh i  
maybe like you said start out slow and and kind of get used to it and find out that it maybe it's not as bad as i i fear it might be  
yeah  
okay  
well what uh what do you all do for camping  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
where do you go  
oh   uh_huh  
oh  
oh i bet it was  
around [gatlinburg] or   somewhere up in there  
um   uh_huh  
well now did you all   sleep in sleeping bags  
and did it get real cold at night  
or  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we only did that once  
now since we've been married we just go uh we go real often to colorado to the mountains  
but we'll   stay in cabins   and you know call that going camping  
but we're really not  
but the one time that i did go camping when i was about i guess sixteen or seventeen with my family  
we drove to uh up by [cosa] springs colorado   and went back seventeen miles back in the back where you couldn't even get a forest ranger if you tried and to the the tent for a week  
and at night it was so cold you thought you'd never feel your   feet again  
and the smell  
and the stars were just five feet above you  
you know they were just right there  
and it was the most bonding most wonderful time  
we enjoyed it  
but about the fourth day i thought if i don't get a hot tub and   shave my legs i'm going to die  
and i had   i i got enough of it right then  
so when we can go to a cabin as long as we've got running water   i'm a little bit better off  
i know that  
i agree with him too  
well that's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that that's  
and they can't believe that they could survive it  
and then once they're there   they they think it's kind of cool  
yeah  
yeah  
and we hike we would hike all day  
mom did the whole uh pork and beans and you know the slice the potatoes and fry them outside and   all the little stuff that we just were so amazed that she knew how to do  
you know couldn't believe  
oh yeah  
with bacon  
oh yeah  
and and daddy would always try to prove he could catch fish for breakfast  
so we usually had a bite apiece  
one  
one  
oh my goodness  
well now is that hot camping  
is that where you're you're hot like on a beach  
i mean is that  
because a lot of our friends will  
well a lot of our friends in east will go to east texas in the summer and camp  
and i'm thinking how could you stand it you know  
you  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
we didn't  
but i like that  
and see especially in the tent   every afternoon it would rain  
and you would get your book and just kind of cuddle up  
and i thought that was fun  
uh_huh  
oh no  
oh no  
golly  
well  
yeah  
well yeah  
i understand that too because some of the places we  
in fact the the more urban we get with the television and the cabin and the whole bit it loses it's flavor  
so  
well i've i've gotten in the mood to go now  
yeah  
i  
you're crazy  
well listen i enjoyed talking with you  
okay  
have a good day  
bye bye  
well we don't do so much now  
but when uh i was uh a child we went regular old camping tents and   and everything like that  
and then with our children we did uh we had a pop up tent camper  
and we used that to go camping  
we uh years ago we lived in oklahoma  
and we went to uh lake [ardmore] i mean   lake murray   all the time  
but when we did it with our children we lived in uh tennessee  
and we went up to the   [smokeys]   which was just absolutely fantastic  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and   along the uh  
there's a ridge that goes down from tennessee   through uh georgia and into alabama  
and uh i think it was called uh uh white cloud or white mountain   and went up on it  
it got real cold  
but the uh camper had uh beds in it you know   when we had that one  
and uh so we just you know we had our bedding  
we didn't have to go with sleeping bags  
but the when i was a a teenager and growing up that was sleeping bags   and joining blankets and sleeping on [ledges] or you know   ground  
and uh that got kind of rough sometimes  
oh do you  
oh uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
oh just beautiful  
yes  
yes  
i understand that  
but yeah  
my husband and i his he says his idea now of roughing it is the regency [hyatt]  
and i i agree with him  
our children are are grown  
but i know that we liked it when our kids were teenagers because we got away from the t v   and the phone  
and we got just strictly by ourselves  
we uh  
some of the time we would not allow them to take friends along so that it was just the four of us  
and you know and we could you know get back in touch with   each other  
oh i know  
i know  
oh they just you know they just thoroughly enjoy it   you know   or enjoyed it   uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yes  
like i i know that you know breakfast we would you know we'd have these big [breakfasts] cooked over this little coleman   stove  
and   yes  
and it would just absolutely taste wonderful  
yes  
one  
yes  
yes  
but i know that we you know as a teenager growing up and going to lake murray there would be oh maybe twenty twenty five of us because it would be all of my mother's   family you know and all my cousins  
and it  
oh no  
we were in the we were in the woods you know  
well we didn't notice it back then  
but that was back before   air conditioning was so you know prevalent   and all  
and uh you know it it always rained on us  
i don't care what weekend   we went and when it was it always rained on us  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
cuddle up uh_huh  
well i don't know  
i remember one time uh some cousins were in a tent  
and it was married cousins  
and they they had the tent  
and this you know frog [strangler] that we used to call them   came through  
and they had put their tent over kind of  
i don't know what  
it wasn't a creek bed  
it was like kind of like a little little uh [gully]   or trench or something  
and the water rushed down  
and they said they looked down and there went   [bud's] boots  
and you know   there went several things floating down this water you know  
we just used to have balls  
you know it was it was more fun  
you know and as i said it just rained every time  
and then my folks had a cabin at one time at lake [tenkiller]  
and we went up there  
but it was never quite the same thing   you know  
yes  
yes  
it does  
it really does uh  
yeah  
yeah  
even i would kind of like to go  
and i know if i go home and say oh let's go camping my   husband says you're crazy  
i enjoyed talking to you too  
thank you  
bye bye  
um tell me some about your camping experiences carolyn  
okay  
where do you go camping at around here  
okay  
sure  
uh what uh what activities do you do when you're camping  
uh_huh  
well that sounds like fun  
i uh i grew up in south dakota up in the black hills  
and so we used to go camping  
my dad would take us  
there was there was four of us kids  
we'd he'd take us  
and we'd all go camping my dad and my mom and and the kids  
and it was always fun uh  
because what i always remember is my dad would let us pick our camp spot  
and uh he'd always tell us you know okay look for you know a nice flat little area where we can pitch our tents  
and it always had to be somewhere near a a river so we could go fishing  
and hopefully we'd catch our supper  
but we never did  
but it was it was always fun  
we'd always  
mom was always prepared  
and she'd bring along you know something because tradition had it we would never catch anything  
so we always had   something along to eat  
but then we'd roast roast marshmallows  
and it it was always an enjoyable experience  
uh about nineteen eighty two i moved from rapid city in the black hills  
i crossed the state to to aberdeen  
and uh there's no hills  
it's flat  
and then i was in high school  
and uh couple of friends couple of my high school friends and i we'd go camping out by a river of course and and go fishing  
but by then of course i was able to catch uh catch some things  
but it it was always fun  
it was a different experience camping in the hills versus camping just by a river  
you know in the hills we we would do like you you folks did you folks did would take the nature [hikes] and you know and look for animals  
and we always you know  
in the hills you can see quite a few different animals  
but  
go ahead  
okay  
sure  
now is there anything uh are there any mountains or big rocks a person could hike around this area  
okay  
uh_huh  
i  
right  
is the one in tyler has it been pretty commercialized i suppose  
okay  
helps helps keep the the [pests] out i suppose  
well that sounds  
i don't know if i can rate camping  
but you know it sure beats driving a thousand miles to to find a mountain i guess  
no  
we just moved down in in june  
yeah  
i'm still trying to find my way around  
i if i   can get on central from anywhere i'm happy  
okay  
well um i have gone to girls camp a few times as a you know a [chaperon] or a leader whatever  
and uh i enjoy camping  
i  
we we have a tent  
and we've gone even with our family a few times out camping and have a camp stove um  
i guess our our my biggest memory is when we froze to death  
we just didn't take enough blankets and   whatever  
uh we went camping at uh lake bonham which is is pretty close here um  
we went fairly early in the season for this area which is probably april   is when we went  
and and it got really cold at night  
and of course we were close enough that we could go back and get some more blankets and things   in the morning  
but  
oh we take little nature [hikes]  
and and uh we take along games that we can play with the with the kids and just that kind of stuff  
usually try to have a uh occasionally a camp fire at night you know and   roast the marshmallows and what all  
oh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh  
we used to live in utah  
and uh of course there's lots of mountains around there to camp in and and streams and stuff  
that's that's a great place to go camping  
and the hiking is just really great  
you know hike up those mountains   is just really fantastic um  
i'm not acquainted with any you know  
i  
there's woods and things out in east texas   tyler area you know  
there's a tyler state park that's uh really a nice camping area  
but it it's just a lot of trees  
it's not  
i don't know of any place in texas that has uh really big you know what i call mountains  
the rocky mountains are so much uh   bigger than anything that they've   they've got down here that  
no  
it's not well it's not too bad  
they have um screened in areas you know  
they're not really cabins i wouldn't say  
i guess they could call them that but they're they're more just a screened in uh camping area   whatever  
they're they're not bad  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
i i take it you haven't done a whole lot of camping in this area  
oh i see  
well you're still uh you're just trying to get over the culture shock still  
yeah  
yeah  
well really the ideal times to camp in this area are early spring and in in the fall  
it just gets so hot in the summer you can hardly  
i mean there's there's a lot  
uh it seems like an unusual subject this time of the year  
but uh it's it's camping  
the last time i went camping was about uh in the middle of october  
and we went up to lake bonham and really enjoyed it  
had a real good time with the family  
we do an awful lot of camping  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes oh  
very good  
i bet it's pretty over there  
what do you think what kind of   camping uh are you talking about  
do you go out  
and is camping for you in a motor home or a trailer  
or do you actually put up a tent  
or  
oh okay  
so you have  
yeah  
a pop up trailer huh  
we have a tent  
yes  
so i guess we really rough it  
and we really enjoy that  
uh one thing uh i've done all sorts of camping  
i've i've camped uh in the snow on a [glacier]  
i've camped uh basically almost anywhere even to the point where we've had to backpack in and everything you carried in was what you had to use to sustain you for that that camping trip and had to pack it back out  
well we enjoy it yeah  
but since i've been married and with a family uh we have to go where there's [restrooms]   and [playgrounds] and so forth  
so we really enjoy it  
but also while i was growing up we did have a trailer  
and uh i camped in that trailer and in a tent and in in log cabins and so forth too  
so a lot of different things  
and yes  
i  
to answer your questions earlier yes i we do enjoy fishing  
and i do go fishing  
haven't done a whole lot down here  
we recently moved from the rocky mountain area up in uh northern utah down to here because of work and uh haven't been able to enjoy fishing like i used to up there which is uh clear water fishing and streams and and rivers  
we normally yeah  
we did we did a lot of the fishing  
but mainly what we did was we did a lot of hiking and exploring and and just going out and seeing what there was to see uh in the area  
oh yes  
that's true  
that's true  
and   no  
we   never did that  
they  
although i've stayed in k o a campgrounds uh we've never done that just to go around and camp  
um personally i when i when we were growing up and when we were going camping i thought that was a little too structured of a camp ground  
um you know that was mainly for people in motor homes or or had trailers or and so on and so forth where you know we really wanted to go camping in a tent  
and uh k o a is is geared for the people that have a [hookup]  
right  
exactly  
and uh i started out basically camping when i was when i was in boy scouts  
and we did an awful lot of that as as a boy scout group  
as i mentioned earlier we went into wilderness areas  
and we camped in the snow and in uh snow [caves]  
and and uh  
all right  
and you got a lot of that in huh  
what do you like to do when you go camping  
uh_huh  
enjoy it huh  
tell scary or scary stories around the fire  
and  
oh yeah  
you know lots a lot of people i've talked to have said well isn't camping boring  
don't you get don't you uh get bored and not have anything to do  
but i've found out that actually we we really enjoy getting away from the television the telephone  
and yes  
exactly  
get out  
getting out and enjoying nature and each other as company when we're out camping  
yeah  
running water  
and a private bathroom  
yes  
yes  
they really do they have a great time  
and like i mentioned uh the we we've been camping a couple of times this year  
and the last time was in october  
and we went up to lake bonham  
and there was a playground for them  
so they had swings  
really  
when was the last time you went  
well i haven't been in probably about three years  
and the last time we went was in um well i guess it was it was like hunting season  
and we went down to like a hunting ground and a lake   lake sam [rayburn]   which is in east texas  
it is real pretty  
um let's see  
do you do a lot of fishing  
one of the ones that you pull along  
and then pop is it pop up  
pop up  
yeah  
what do you have  
a tent  
really  
so you're a serious camper  
well that makes sense  
but when you all went camping is that what you normally i mean  
what did you normally do  
i guess probably just wherever you live at has a lot to do with where what you're going to do when you go  
and you do actually camp  
did you ever like travel around to what's that the little k o k o a camps whenever  
ever done that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that actually travel what city to city state to state  
that's probably where i first started was in girl scouts  
yeah  
um well let's see i just i mean i just like to go  
and normally i go with a whole group of friends  
and we just kind of go and hang out and just do fun stuff  
roast marshmallows  
yeah  
or um take a deck of cards if we can actually see and um play cards and stuff  
yeah  
it's relaxing  
plus you um  
kind of makes you appreciate some a lot of the things you take for granted  
running water  
your hair dryer  
[curling] iron  
what about your family  
do your kids and everything like to  
uh what sort of camping do you like to do the most  
huh rough type huh  
okay  
oh yeah  
motor homes can be a lot of fun  
yeah  
uh that can be a lot of fun too  
yeah  
well so far my wife and i have pretty much had to stick with tent camping  
this summer we went to uh the smokey mountain national park   and uh stayed about three or four days in there  
it was wonderful  
nights were cool enough to where they're comfortable  
and the days were nice and warm  
and it was beautiful beautiful few days  
it worked out particularly well especially considering she was what six months pregnant  
so   i don't know  
it worked pretty well  
it was one of those uh those dome type pop up tents  
nice and quick and easy to put up  
packs away nice and small  
and about had to be something like that getting around in a [pinto]  
it was a lot of fun  
oh yeah  
wow  
that's got to be beautiful territory  
yeah  
what like [sequoia] national park  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
do they still have the uh the scenic uh [roadways] that cut through the center of some of those trees  
okay  
no  
so far new orleans is far west as i've gotten   well new orleans and uh minneapolis  
oh yeah  
we're hoping one of these days soon after we're out of school to head that way  
oh yeah  
yeah  
they seem to be [trailing] out quickly  
yes  
i imagine  
i would imagine they are  
yeah  
uh not a whole lot of [forestry] down there is there  
oh  
place is [forested] with with those concrete trees  
yeah  
well i guess that's god's place too  
anyway   uh what do you figure has been the longest trip you've taken camping  
three weeks  
yeah  
the whole family then was   in on this  
yeah  
that would have to be a blast  
what  
well you went out from texas up in into that area  
yeah  
okay  
oh wow  
okay  
big [sur] highway that's uh where you're pretty much in view of the ocean almost all the time   aren't you  
uh well i i do uh real rough type camping  
i have a motor home  
yeah  
uh  
yeah  
they really are  
they really are  
i've i've enjoyed it  
i've never actually done any uh like tent camping  
but uh one of these days i'm going to try that too   yeah like to go visit uh the national parks and state parks and and uh just get out and see nature  
how about you  
uh_huh  
oh how great  
oh yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's true  
that's true  
i guess the last real uh camping trip i took was has been a couple years ago  
uh i went to california up to the [sequoias]  
yeah  
it's gorgeous  
i love the big trees  
just just the drive up through uh up the coast line   and then cut over in into the into the parks it's gorgeous though  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i had been there before when i lived in california  
but that's my first trip back in oh goodness um um thirty years maybe  
but that is god's country  
it has to be  
yeah  
uh no  
they don't  
they  
the last one well  
the first time i was there the the tree was still standing  
but it has since come down  
yeah  
but they are huge  
if you've never seen them it's it's very awe inspiring  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well there is lots of pretty country further west  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and you just need to take the little one   show them all the all the [pretties] before they go away  
yeah  
yeah  
because there is lots to see  
there is course the the grand canyon  
and uh the painted desert is is real pretty in a different sort of way  
and course the the [sequoias] and the [redwoods] and and you get up into bryce canyon and yellowstone  
and uh the grand [tetons] are gorgeous too  
yeah  
course i i guess i'm partial to big tree country  
i don't know why i got stuck down here in texas now  
i think it's called a job  
i don't know  
no  
not around here  
not around here  
uh_huh  
lot lot of concrete and glass you know  
yeah  
uh probably the the last one that i went to california  
i took uh three weeks  
and i was actually on the road a little more than three weeks  
uh_huh  
everybody  
yep  
yeah  
it really was it was great  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we went uh we took the southern route and went went through uh uh the grand canyon again  
and we stopped at uh uh las vegas for a couple of nights and then uh went into [malibu] in california over on the coast  
and then we went up the the big [sur] highway all the way up to san francisco   and uh and then cut across through the wine country   and then went down to to uh [sequoia] national park  
oh yeah  
okay  
so you enjoy camping  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you have electricity out there  
yeah  
you've got a phone obviously  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess so huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i grew up in california in   in central california   right in the valley  
so it is a forty five minute drive to the mountains  
and uh so my dad loved fishing and camping  
so we would go up  
first we went up just to uh with a toyota pick up truck and laid out our sleeping bags under the stars and you know cooked our uh hot dogs by the fire or whatever  
but then later my mom and dad got a camper  
so uh   we have kind of moved up  
yeah  
a little bit in the world  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that's uh   that will be pretty  
that's really pretty out there  
there are a lot of nice places  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i uh   like you i haven't done any in quite some time   except for what i call living now   which is which is very close to camping  
yeah  
you know i uh camped in the boy scouts  
and you know my dad and i went out sometimes  
but   uh even my first uh eight or nine years of working i camped almost all of the time because i was in construction  
and it is cheaper to pitch a tent and cook your meals out by the fire than it is to rent an apartment   add to stress  
i mean when you have to have it you have got to have it  
and you know in those those kinds of situations uh room rent which is outrageous  
so my buddy and i we just camped  
and we figured what the hell  
we did it when we were kids  
and we loved it  
of course we didn't really rough it that much  
when when i was in high school  
he is a couple years older than me  
and uh he graduated and went off to college  
and uh during the summer we would camp out at the lake  
but it wasn't very much like camping because we had a refrigerator and a stove  
you know i had a little boat house and [floated] it out on lake grapevine  
and uh well it was fantastic  
we would get up in the morning go skiing uh  
that [substituted] for a shower  
and then we would go to work and uh come back to the uh you know boat house at night  
and uh in the afternoon you know it is still four o'clock  
you have got four hours of day light good skiing left  
and uh it was great  
but uh you know now all my life is more like camping than not camping really  
oh yeah  
well actually as a matter of fact they just ran the phone three years ago  
we didn't have a phone  
they didn't have phone lines  
you just couldn't get phones  
and uh we are on the we are third from the end on the electric string  
so we are at the end of the mail route  
like i said we are probably as far as you can get from the seven eleven and still be in texas  
but uh you know right now uh what we did my wife and i is we got a mobile home   one of these twelve by forty [eight's] that got [repoed]   and uh [swapped] them a cadillac for it and put it out here on the land figuring i would build a house some day you know  
i'm in construction  
and uh you know i just had this place you know to shower up while i was you know out here you know putting up fence and building a driveway and [drilling] a well and all that stuff you have to do before you can even put a house in you know  
and uh i came home from work one friday afternoon  
and our truck was back  
everything we had was in boxes  
and my wife said uh we're moving  
and i said where  
and she said out to the trailer  
and i said oh  
she said yep  
and i said okay  
so we have been roughing it out here for about three years  
but it is not bad  
i we have color t v microwave you know  
it is not horrible  
but it's it's a lot like camping  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
became civilized  
yeah  
my mom goes camping you know  
she takes her uh motor home  
you know she's got one of these huge [winnebago's] with a refrigerator and air conditioning color t v microwave oven   you know  
she just  
roughing it for me is going to the holiday inn and getting a shower   you know  
but you know she has a lot of fun  
and mostly it is just a way to  
she she goes to dog shows  
see she shows dogs  
and uh you can sneak a dog into a motel  
but you can't sneak ten dogs into a motel  
so she uh you know takes the motor home  
and she made a deal with my dad that she would take all the dogs with her when she went dog showing  
and she  
if he would buy her a motor home  
so he did  
but as far as camping my wife and i have plans to uh not really camp per se but to drive up the uh you know highway one there in california   uh as soon as we get this house finished  
i am going to need a vacation  
okay bill  
right  
okay bill  
have you done much camping  
uh_huh  
oh well that that sounds good  
yeah  
you do  
um now do you have a lot mountains  
well you don't have mountains in texas do you  
where do you find places to camp  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh my word  
well that sounds adventuresome  
well um i've done oh i would say quite a bit of camping mostly with my husband and i  
um we have five children  
and so we have found that camping with the little ones isn't as enjoyable as just when we go ourselves  
so we've tried to get out once a year and go on a anniversary camp out  
and we have gone up into the mountains and uh not necessarily roughed it  
but we have just found it just real enjoyable to be alone up in the mountains  
and then the boys are our boys are old enough now  
they're twelve and eleven  
and so they're involved in the scouting  
and they do a lot of camping with the scouts  
and last time our one twelve year old went to the scout camp for a week  
and so this year they'll both be going  
and so that's been real enjoyable for them  
so  
um yes  
they've well  
no  
actually they've i remember they have taken the the the heavy cast iron dutch [ovens] and done their cooking there over the fire  
and i don't think they've taken the stoves  
um last year they camped in tents  
and this year i believe they will be in tents also  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh is that right  
oh and what does that [consist] of  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
well see when when we go camping here  
we have to take our big huge heavy sleeping bags and lots of tents  
and i like to sleep on the air [matresses]  
i'm not  
my bones are getting so old  
so i like to i like to sleep on the [matresses]  
um so have you had any adventures on your camping trips with [encounters] with wild animals or anything like that  
oh  
my word  
gee  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
oh  
uh they're covered like with a heavy [armor]   type stuff  
uh_huh  
my word  
uh_huh  
but they won't necessarily attack a human or bite you or anything  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
well that sounds a little less [fierce] than bears  
we we want to  
yes  
uh yes  
i'm a [scoutmaster] in boy scouts  
and i camp uh every month uh camp at least one weekend  
and during the summer we camp uh two or three weeks a year  
i'd say i camp quite a bit  
well uh we we do a lot of canoeing when we go camping  
and we uh we also uh carry all our equipment with us  
and so we canoe down the river and then   sleep on the river on one of the um sand bars and then   get up the next morning cook our breakfast and go down the river again  
how about yourself  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
great  
what uh what kind of camping do they like best  
do they like it where they have tents  
and uh do they cook on stoves  
uh_huh  
course i imagine it gets cold in parts of utah  
it doesn't get very cold in texas  
so lots of times we don't even take tents  
we just use trail [tarps]  
uh it's just a piece of material that has uh that has a lot of places where you can tie off to it   and make it into a tent   uh like a uh  
they're very light weight  
and we use them when we go backpacking  
so we go backpacking fifteen or twenty miles then uh  
they're not very heavy see  
so you carry them with you  
and   they'll keep you dry or whatever  
uh_huh  
yes  
in fact uh um last month we went camping  
we saw a lot of deer   uh in the morning and the afternoon   just deer everywhere  
uh_huh  
so uh but it even though uh it wasn't hunting season  
and we were with boy scouts  
so   of course we don't uh want to go hunting  
but we got to see a lot of deer   um out and about  
and there's  
of course we see smaller animals all the time  
and uh one thing that is a big concern in the evening at night uh is uh make sure that all the food's put away and so forth   because uh we have uh [armadillos]  
do you know what   [armadillo] is  
uh_huh  
and [possums] and uh [raccoons]  
and we have those [creatures] down here that they like to uh they like to go hunting for a midnight snack  
and so that that uh that can be a problem if you don't put all your equipment away  
they will if you attack them  
but most time they run away from you   if they if they see you're up you know  
but they don't have any problem walking right by you if you're asleep  
so  
uh i don't know  
your camping experience is probably  
i don't know if they're similar to mine  
but uh since i've had children it has changed a little bit  
but uh when my husband and i were uh camping we'd take this [domed] tent that uh is easily collapsible and uh go camping and uh just kind of roughed it  
as long as there was a bathroom there and some clean showers and things like that then it was fine  
but uh we'd get up at three in the morning and start on our little uh [escapade] for the day and uh kind of uh do a lot of different things and then stop when we wanted to  
but uh that's kind of changed now  
when you have a small child because they don't want to get up at three in the morning  
and you don't want them up that early  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we did a lot of different things  
we'd stop when we wanted to that kind of stuff  
so we kind of did a little bit of hiking sure and a little bit of uh [sightseeing] uh different areas uh sitting back at different areas and spending hours  
we never had really a time limit  
we just kind of did what we wanted   to do for that day  
very comfortable  
so  
well there's uh places in wisconsin  
there's the [apostle] islands uh   which are in [bayfield] which is a wonderful place  
and then there's also uh what we found uh in the state of uh south dakota the black hills  
and we just have this uh really good time there  
one thing is they don't have mosquitoes  
and uh sorry to say   and uh in wisconsin we do  
so that kind of puts a little bit of a hamper on your uh you know  
if if you're going to go camping who wants to deal with bugs  
and uh  
we found this one area that doesn't have mosquitoes  
they just don't have them  
and it's just wonderful not to be bugged all night long with a [humming] mosquito at your ear  
so   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
that was really called roughing it  
yeah  
i  
anymore  
yeah  
see  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
than you  
sure  
than it when you were younger  
uh_huh  
it  
with kids they don't care if they take a shower everyday  
with kids they don't care you know uh a about a lot of things  
but as adults uh it's like if i don't take a shower every day i feel like you know ooh  
i i just don't feel right  
so there's lots of places if you're going to go camping  
k o a are wonderful  
it's kind of it's kind of the uh yuppie type of camping because they have showers  
they have things for kids to do  
they have swimming pools things like that  
if you   can find uh some really nice clean uh campgrounds versus uh if you go to state parks uh  
we have found state parks not that they're lacking  
but uh they're certainly not up to a standard of a k o a where it's you know a little bit cleaner  
you've got the showers available  
it's not you know in the same category  
state parks you know you get a little bit fearful too uh you know things like that simply because it they are supposed to be patrolled  
but uh you know it's it's a little bit different  
but so we've always kind of stayed with a k o a and then uh did other things besides just sit at the campground at night  
that's the only time you really use your campground  
if you're going to be gone all day long walking someplace or doing tourism or whatever   uh you're camping really is just for like in the evening to start the fire to sit back and watch a fire uh to enjoy that you know and then to get up in the morning and get a shower and get cleaned up that kind of stuff  
so we never really spent that much time at the campground as much as we did  
would you then go hiking  
i mean would the camping be part of a long hike  
um  
were you up in in wisconsin  
or would you go into  
where would you camp  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's beautiful  
right  
oh yeah  
well most of my camping  
i haven't done much since i was a kid  
but uh we'd basically take the tent up in the sierras and uh usually just camp near some stream   or some lake  
and uh just  
it wasn't even a a full tent  
it would be more a [tarp] uh   strung up between trees  
and my dad would take uh four kids   my brother and myself and two cousins  
and uh we just thought it was absolute heaven  
uh there was certainly nothing like a a bathroom a shower or anything   near by  
it was dig your own hole  
and uh   and i   i'm not sure i'd do that   that anymore  
but it's it uh uh  
actually some friends of mine and i are planning to camp this summer uh for four days  
also   going fishing uh  
and i have a idea it's going to be a a lot more equipment and a lot more stuff than   before  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
oh my  
uh_huh  
no
i haven't been camping since i was about sixteen
but uh my family used to have a pop up trailer
and we'd go camping to a lot of different places we spent two weeks in [bastrop] texas once
it's near austin
uh_huh
have you ever been camping in any of the big national parks
when i go camping
i don't i don't like to rough it
i like to have a little bit of electricity
and a little bit of running water
i'm not really into this going and sitting in a tent for a few days with nothing
i have some friends that go camping for a couple of weeks every summer
they are both [geologists] and they load up their truck with their tent
and they go to new mexico
and they just find places to camp and go looking for rocks and it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me
my friend said that the last time they went uh she just got tired of the tent
and it was cold at night and she got tired of eating out of cans and so they stayed in a hotel one night
just for fun
no kidding
no kidding
gosh this way the the bugs
i don't like the bugs
yeah
the one nice thing i remember about camping with my parents is they had a big [hammock] and they would always find a couple a campsite with a couple of good trees that to hang it in between
and i could just lay in the [hammock] for hours
yeah
oh
we stayed in galveston island state park once
but if a storm blew in and it was just horrible
and the sand was blowing up our camp
the little camping area was pretty near the shore
and there were some pretty big [dunes] before the the camping area
and the sand was all blowing up and you couldn't even go out of the camper the wind was blowing so hard because you'd get sand in your eyes
yeah
it was pretty bad pretty bad
but we had a good time in our camper
we we usually took box games and things to do in case it rained and my parents always let us take a couple of friends so we always had a good time
yeah
yeah
well children aren't easily entertained by just enjoying the nature
yeah
oh god makes it a little
my fiancee
and i one day would like to own a big motor home
mainly because he's a football
he's a college football coach
and we're going to have to travel a lot
and it would be nice if we had a big old motor home
and that way i could load up the rest of the wives
and go to wherever the football game is
and have someplace to sleep without spending big money for a hotel
and and park it outside of the stadium and have a good old time
um um uh_huh
no kidding
it really is
oh yeah
yeah
no kidding
okay
nice talking to you too
okay
i haven't in a while
but i do enjoy it when i get to go
the last time i went camping was um in san antonio
texas
and uh
um in a park guadalupe state park or guadalupe river state park
and then i guess before that
the last time i went camping was up on backpacking up on the continental divide in colorado yeah
for two weeks
it was pretty fun
oh really
where would you go camping
uh_huh
i've been there
uh_huh
huh
um i guess in colorado
i'm trying to think of the place we went was in pagosa springs
and we went up kind of in the southwest corner of colorado
yeah
yeah
because we went isn't mesa [verdes] where they have the the cliff [dwellings] okay
yeah
we went by there
and then we went to on to pagosa springs
and that's that's when we got the packs and and you had to put everything for a week
on your back
and there was no showers no nothing for a week
it was pretty interesting
it was quite an experience
and this was in the middle of the summer and we woke up one morning and it snowed for about fifteen minutes
but it didn't last
any amount of time
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
well that sounds like fun
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i guess the wind and everything uh
yeah uh
i've never camped on the coast before
i've always thought it would be fun
uh_huh
right
did you get a lot of sand in your sleeping bag and everything though
i can imagine
sounds like
that would be a mess
yeah
i guess that's true too
oh god
oh no
god
um
uh_huh
oh
hold on just a moment
okay
i'm on a cordless phone
and every now and then i get [interference]
and i have to switch the channel
i hear something weird in the background
sorry about that
um
i guess so
i guess it gets pretty cold in that part of country in november
i mean here it's pretty unpredictable it could be cold
or it could be really warm
in that time of the year
so
yeah
well it's been
i guess the last time i went camping was well probably about two years ago
um i've been wanting to since then i just haven't had much of a chance to a bunch of my friends went and camped at the at a lake in oklahoma
once this last summer
oh i was going to south padre that weekend
that was why
but um i really i like to camp
i just haven't had much opportunity to do it lately
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i guess really the most times i've been camping i would have to say it would be colorado and new mexico in that area
just on a big group trip thing
and i didn't have to come up with much
equipment
because a for the group we got all the stuff that we needed
but um
and that was boy that was a while back when i did that actually it's probably been
ten years ago
but it was quite i just can remember sleeping in this sleeping bag and waking up in the middle of the night just freezing cold
i mean i just you couldn't stay warm at night
no matter what
and i was sleeping on my down jacket with my pillow and sleeping in long johns and freezing
but during the day it would get nice enough
and then after that week of being up there
i can remember coming back down to our base camp area at at the lake
at pagosa springs
and we all made a [beeline] for this pump because there weren't any there were just [outhouses]
and a pump
and we all went to the pump
and we were all washing our hair
under the pump
and it was so cold
it must have been like thirty three degree water
that just was
all but frozen and it gave us the worse [headaches] we've ever had in our lives
it was so nice just to at least get clean
hair
and we all jumped in the lake and everything just to just to rinse off
it was quite an experience
i've never gone for a whole week in the wilderness with with no
you know no running water nothing
so it was pretty pretty uh interesting experience
yes
definitely
definitely
i mean when you appreciate an [outhouse] you know you've been roughing it
but anyway well five minute
well actually we've gone
more than five minutes
so anyway
it was good talking to you rick
i see
sure
uh_huh
well for me camping
i've never owned a trailer so for me camping is has a lot more to do with [backpacks] and tents
but i guess that this two kinds of camping that um i've done
one is to throw a a tent and food and the like in the back of a car and drive to a campsite and setup the tent and have the the car right next to me
the other is to actually you know carry everything on your back
i've done camping out in at in the aspen mountains in colorado where
right
right
exactly
i understand
oh yeah
right
well either way it's get i guess maybe we can define it as living away from the home
but
exactly
uh_huh
yeah
when i when i mentioned i've done this camping out of the car i've actually done of the situation just like that
but what's interesting is it's through texas instruments
yeah
t i has a uh owns a piece of land on the edge of a lake that borders that the lake is on the border of texas and oklahoma
it's called lake texoma
yeah
that's right
so that's where i've done most of that actually it is it's really beautiful the the lake is is outstanding
it's a huge huge huge lake
oh yeah
oh yeah
i think
you can go up there and get a space for the night for two bucks
yeah
so it's easy to do
i'm actually interested in getting one of those kind of my wife has been talking about this in the past couple of years
one of those kind of campers that pop up
so it's about uh maybe eight foot square
and but only about two feet tall
and when you get to where you're going it raises up and there's [tenting] material
yes
exactly
exactly
my wife has a lot of interest in those
and i've actually been keeping my eye on the paper and they seem to be running between one and two thousand dollars
which
sure
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
that's
i see
oh yeah
you said yours is eighteen feet long
what
oh yeah
the brand is terry
oh i'd never heard of it
yeah
yeah
well that's neat
oh yeah
that's something
yeah
yeah
well that's great
right
oh yeah
yeah
that's right
and it
right
uh_huh
and you still do that
and so you drive to work from there or you just take the summer off
oh wow that's nice
yeah
i see
right
well i envy that what a great life
yeah
huh
i understand
and that's right
just want to get in and
yeah
yeah
that's funny
well nice talking to you too
well i appreciate it
and good luck with your uh your your hopes of buy a winnebago i'll do it
nice talking to you ray
well we uh as a little girl
i used to go camping with my family and uh we'd load up our car and take tents and cots and all kinds of stuff
and the place that we went the most often was uh in oklahoma it's about a two or three hour drive
and it is a little bitty national park right in the right in a town called sulphur oklahoma
and it was real pretty had lots of trees and creeks to play in and it was a lot of fun
yeah
probably so
uh_huh
oh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh my goodness
did you have uh very warm sleeping bag
or
oh my goodness
oh yeah
uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
oh no
oh no
oh
oh
oh no
how did you get out of that
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh man
oh that's awful
oh my goodness
oh that's quite an experience
i probably would have had a heart attack and died right there on the spot
oh that
i bet
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's just like moving to another area for a while
yeah
yeah
i know it's kind of funny
yeah
well did you go camping by yourself then you didn't go with other people
or
huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well that's nice
yeah
just a second [tara] would you hold on just a moment please uh when i uh planned my little uh schedule of when i could talk on the phone this one was suppose to be asleep
and she's not cooperating
yeah
i think so
oh
yeah
wants you to
my kids want a cat so bad
and uh i'd i'd like to get them one
but we live close to a busy street and almost everyone has a cat it's been hit run over
[maimed] you know
and i just can't stand the thought of it
so
yeah
keep them in the house
well that may be our only option
if we ever get one
huh
huh
well this is real interesting that you're as far away as you are
because i really thought this was uh uh we're yeah
t i
people
yeah
and so i just figured no
it's just this area you know
well that's interesting
well you're my third one
and i have never gotten the courage to do it myself
isn't that funny
uh_huh
uh_huh
for it
oh my
oh i never thought about that that it would take a long time to find someone available
uh_huh
oh my goodness
yeah
i guess it depends on the time of day too
yeah
yeah
yeah
oh wow
that's great
well i got a catalog that you know shows all the gifts and things you can get
and i started getting inspired thinking oh we need to do this
i'd like those things
yeah
that's right
and they probably will soon
so
yeah
yeah
i can see that
huh well that's pretty neat
well
yeah
yeah
every time i've talked to them
my husband said i can't believe that you made five dollars every time you do that
it sounds easy
so he signed up to do it
but he's never done one
so i know
yeah
i know it's crazy
that's right
yeah
he'll say yeah i did that
oh
well that will be neat
oh i tell you my kids would love to they'd just want any kind of a cat bless their hearts and like i said um i really would like to have one too because i know how much they want one
it's just hard one
my youngest daughter has asthma and uh been a little afraid to have a cat in the house all the time with a child that has asthma so i thought well i need an outdoor cat
but if i have an outdoor cat i'm afraid it's going to get hurt
so i have a problem
yeah
huh
i don't think they'd be too fun
are they
huh
oh my land i'd be scared to dead to have anything that expensive
huh
oh i've never heard of that
yeah
huh
huh
yeah
i would hope so
well that's good
yeah
yeah
yeah
i guess so
oh that's neat
well it was nice talking to you
i think i'm going to have to catch my daughter before she eats any more candy
when i'm on the phone that's her sign that she can do what she wants to do
yeah
you too
i used to love camping
but since we've got two little kids our camping styles have changed dramatically
we've tried to go camping with them
and the last time it wound up with my husband the only one that couldn't stand them left in the tent because the kids wouldn't calm down they wouldn't go to sleep they were crawling all over us they thought it was just party time all night long you know
yeah
yeah
oh boy
so you're an old hand at it
yeah
yeah
yeah
i like cabins they're real nice
also i've found that when we've gone camping
we've had some bad experiences sometimes when you even have seem to have uh you know tent sites that are a little bit off the beaten path
but there's a cluster of them
and we wound up with people like you know four feet away from us that are just bombed out of their minds or something all night long partying
and that's not my idea of going out you know and being with nature
so
oh yeah
it's frightening
yeah
yeah
yeah
we went to yosemite and uh we went we got a little cabin there
and that was really nice
but uh someplace like that where you like you say you can get way out in the middle of nowhere
you know where you can really be away from civilization i i would feel safer there than i would some of these little uh tent site areas you know
um
oh wow
oh my goodness
my body can't handle that anymore
i want a queen size air bed you know to go in the tent or something
yeah
yeah
i found a problem here too
since we moved to texas three years ago i was feeling like there's places without fire ants or that aren't like all summer long
it's so hot
i you know i don't want to be out there when it's a hundred and ten degrees out trying to sleep
yeah
and it's so wet
in the early part of it
yeah
yeah
contained yeah
yeah
yeah
i can relate to that
we had some friends invite us to go to a place on a couple weeks
that's uh four miles of dirt road and they have a trailer that they keep permanently there a little travel trailer
and they said we could just camp out
but with a two year old and a three year old three days without running water without the toilets
i mean i can't imagine you know the diapers after three days forget it
yeah
so you know
i think we'll pass on that one
but oh really
that would be nice
yeah
yeah
yeah
that would be fun
yeah
fishing
and then going and you know eating what you caught and all that good stuff huh
yeah
yeah
give me the [ramada] inn
yeah
well i can understand that
well we don't we'll have to get more supplies too
i mean that's why it would be hard for me to imagine backpacking in because it seems like our car's just totally loaded down with everything we have to go camping
it's like
yeah
my
well my husband said next time we go camping with the kids we're just going to strap them in their car seats at ten o'clock at night and then we'll go back to the tent
they'll fall asleep
and we'll with able to enjoy nature
yeah
yeah
it seems like it
we need a van or something to get
i mean even if we take the dog forget it
there's no room for anything else
so yeah
it's hard to do without the creature comforts sometimes
well last time we tried we bought a coleman camp stove that was practically new at a garage sale for next to nothing
and then we brought it home and tried one night to get it going
and we could never get an even heat off of it
so we need somebody you know with experience to go with us sometime or come over and show us how to get it you know going
so
yeah
oh good grief
yeah
you could stay really nicely at a spa somewhere for a week for what it would cost you to buy all that
really
yeah
well it
oh that would be fun
oh gosh
yeah
yeah
i guess
i'd like to think that anyway
yeah
yeah
well they have these vacation packages i had a friend that went on where she went uh now what do they call it when you go down the rapids like in these rubber boats and stuff rafting or whatever
yeah
and she went oh gosh to colorado or someplace and i mean they had like a a a gourmet chef that put you know the meal on for them wherever they tied up at night and i mean it was a whole different ball game
wasn't like eating beef [jerky] or something
yeah
expensive
yeah
unless you just go and wear them out
so badly that they'd collapse by the time they got off the raft they'd be
wouldn't be any problem at all
for the rest of the evening
oh boy
yeah
yeah
that would be fun
uh_huh
oh really
from all the bouncing yeah
that's true
oh gosh
that's funny
yeah
yeah
that's true
yeah
yeah
well i you know hear like most of these people say things like going to you know walt disneyworld and stuff like that with their families it's more of a luxury kind of vacation than it is the the roughing it or whatever
but um
oh that sounds neat
yeah
yeah
well maybe when ours get a little older and we really want to get elaborate we could do something like that
but right now
they think it's a thrill to put a pool in the backyard you know that little five foot
k mart specials give them a glass of juice and boy they're ready for the afternoon you know
yeah
yep
yeah
yeah
roast marshmallows
and how old is she
oh yeah
they'll just pass out huh
oh gosh
yeah
no
no
that doesn't sound too
yeah
when we were living in california people all the time went in the winter you know up in the mountains and stuff
i don't know
i can't see that either
uh south of san francisco
in [sunnyvale] yeah
yeah
oh yeah
the weather's really nice
and then you go you know you can go up in the mountains and it'll drop thirty degrees just on your drive up there
so that's kind of
uh_huh
well yeah
that's exactly what i think of too uh that's the way i think of camping in a tent
not comfortably
yeah
that's that's great
well when i was a kid
my father had all different kinds of travel trailers whatever he liked
he had a travel trailer
and he had a winnebago and he had a truck camper
and he was always buying new things like that
and i hated it
i hated going camping
and when i got older i liked things like caesar's palace you know
that's where i like to stay
and and
right
exactly
so this summer uh my boyfriend lives in california
and he loves to go camping
and he said let's go camping
and i went and i loved it
and so my my parents couldn't believe it
you went camping
but it was nice
it's peaceful and quiet
and it was just nice
and i sat there and thought what do i have at home that i need that i don't have here
and i couldn't really think of anything
so in california in the mountains
it was just beautiful
and uh it wasn't very crowded
it was during the week and it was wonderful
so that was nice
so i guess i do like camping
right
that's exactly right
boring to me
oh they went all over
yeah
i mean they they even moved they did they went to parks like uh well we lived on long island
we went to new jersey and things like that you know not far away
and then to the extreme uh they sold everything and bought a house trailer
and uh moved to florida
and pulled it behind us
and that was really funny because i mean it's funny now
it wasn't funny then
all these very strange things happened
i mean it was just really
yes
yes
we did
that's exactly where we went
really
oh
and did they camp out
probably
yeah
yeah
i wouldn't like to go to the same place all the time
yeah
that's boring to me
yeah
well there's so many places to go if you went to a different one every time you couldn't see them all
so
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i have
it's been a long long time though
uh_huh
oh i'm sure
well i don't know
if i get invited maybe yeah
if i find time
oh yeah
how long to go for
where in california
do you live
okay
i was down that way
once
but i don't think i remember that is it on the coast
i went all the way down to [imperial] beach once that is as far as i went
uh_huh
yes
i guess we are going to talk about camping is that right
okay
well yeah
my wife and i like to camp uh usually just on short trips like a weekend or long weekend
and we generally go to uh state or national parks
uh_huh
yeah
well we don't really care for fishing anything that that [resembles] work
so we just uh we what we do is hike and take pictures that is about all
well texas has a pretty nice system of state parks we have got uh state parks just all over the place and different kinds of terrain and most of them
uh
well texas has every thing from desert to uh swamp
so uh i don't think they have too many
they don't have too many [swamps] in arizona
i don't think
i don't think i have uh seen too many [swamps] in arizona
now we may do some camping in arizona
though i have got uh my uh brother and sister and father all live in [fredonia] now
so
yeah
what is it
mayer
oh yeah uh
i i think i remember going through there is that between [prescott] and [jerome] or uh over the other way
uh_huh
well it
yeah
i think i do remember a little wide place in the road called mayer well anyway the uh everybody there says the uh you know there are places you can camp uh right around [fredonia] there
uh_huh
yeah
well we we do we like actually we like to get off where there aren't too many people around
we did find a nice uh [prospect] uh down on the gulf
uh there is a uh national wild wildlife [refuge] called [urandus] i don't know if you have heard of it
that is where the [whooping] [cranes] go in the winter or at least that is where a lot of them go
and uh there is an island right off there called [matagorda] and uh you can take a ferry boat out there and it is uh completely uh pretty much anyway complete wilderness island
sort of like a big [sandbar] you know you want to make sure there aren't any big storms coming
but uh then you can take a uh take a little bus across the island to the to the gulf side rather than the bay side
and uh it is really nice down there lots of sea birds
all at once
or
all at once
uh_huh
that could be difficult
i have seen a few people that had small babies camping
but uh it didn't look like any of them were really enjoying the experience very much
yeah
well i sort of like to feel less tied down rather than more tied down while when i go camping
uh_huh
well i really like arizona
i like uh uh a couple times this last year i made it up to [jerome] just to uh enjoy the altitude and everything
it is really neat up there some how
well steve do you take your entire uh family camping
you have do you take your children with you
yeah
i got uh one child
he's ten years old when we go camping
uh we normally have to round up another child to keep him occupied otherwise he drives us nuts
do you do you wilderness camp
your your wife doesn't like that wilderness camping
does she
my wife thinks holiday [inn's] wilderness camping
she uh she got to have a bathroom and showers we live on the lake uh there's a very large lake here
it's called lake [lanier] it's in north georgia
my house is on the lake
so there's a lot of places to camp around here where the they have rest rooms and showers and stuff like but the [lake's] really crowded
so we normally go to the mountains
we found some nice little places in the mountains
there's a lot of state run camp sites now
this they're charging us now do they charge you in texas
oh
oh they do here they they uh you pay taxes to support it
and then uh you pay to get in too
you know like a user fee
i think they call them now
so i don't know
do you all do you fish and go camping
you take a boat or
yeah
is it uh do you uh load the car down till the springs are dragging the ground
we do we we we got uh my wife is putting tables and chairs and
yeah
oh yeah
it
we have a hard time getting the uh [recliners] [bolted] on high on the car too
well it takes three days to load the car and three days to unload it
and we camp for about a day and a half
uh
yeah
how old are your children steve a five year old boy that's rough to camping then when they're five
isn't it
well when
uh
ours is like i say ten years old
and i think they might be a little bit more hard to handle too
you got to keep them occupied and then plus you end up with the fish hooks in your ears and stuff like that
well that's all they care about anyway
casting that's all my boy cares about
seeing how for
he can throw it
i try to explain to him fish can swim
he don't believe
uh_huh
we drove we drove through there and looked
that looks like it would be beautiful out there
sort of
yeah
i don't know if i could take that last time we went camping
i went with my brother and his wife
and we went the on top of this mountain there's a little narrow road
and it takes it's just eighteen miles
but it takes like a hour and a half just to get up that road
it's a rough road
so we get up there
and we sit around and get ready to get ready for camp that night
and and they didn't bring the poles to hold their tent up
so we're all had to [cram] this one little tiny tent
and it rained all night long
and i was stuck at the door
and it just it just flooded me all night long this
so that was been
our last little camping experience
but uh we enjoyed it
if if you don't get pneumonia well there's getting less and less of it
oh not recently we we've done a little bit of car camping uh since since i got married and did a little bit of backpacking several years ago
but uh not recently
well not real long maybe three or four days at the most
how about you
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
well i've done a little bit of that too
uh i guess i've kind of done the full range of camping anywhere from backpacking in the mountains to for a week at a time to the car camping kind of thing
well i've done some down in uh tennessee and kentucky that area north carolina
and then done some in new mexico and some out in montana colorado
so i've kind of gone around and done it in a number of places
right
i used to work at uh summer camps a a lot when i was in high school and college and i worked at some summer camps in new mexico or uh the emphasis there was on backpacking exclusively
right
uh_huh
you've been there
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's a very popular place
and i worked there three summers so got to know it pretty well
well probably the biggest concern that i would have now is getting safe drinking water uh cause a lot of times we'd just pull water out of a stream and uh use that
and i was never really big on using a lot of chemicals for water [purification] and treatment uh and nowadays i think i'd be a little bit more cautious about that than i used to be
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i suppose in some of the real big parks and stuff that could be an issue
but generally i haven't ever found that to be a problem
usually people are very friendly and uh cooperative all the way around
so i've never [deemed] that as a threat to myself
but been been fairly careful about not leaving tempting things out in the campsite and stuff like that
uh_huh
right
and usually if i'm backpacking
of course there
i don't worry about it much at all
cause if there's something there that they want they'd have to haul it out a long ways
so they
usually would think twice about it
so
uh_huh
you know
i've had some friends of mine that have made the trip down through there a couple of times they really enjoy it
but there's something about going down in a hole that just uh doesn't really relate that strongly to me i suppose i'll try it some day
but i always like to climb mountains get
up where i can see something
uh_huh
well no
it's
well i tell you what uh my my uh notion of camping is uh well i haven't been very far out see i've been in the hill country about as far as i've gone as far as camping
so i haven't done any really really rough rugged camping
but uh you know to me it's the uh pitching a tent
and i mean we're talking real roughing it
no cabin no johns nothing
just being out there in the woods
yeah
that's it
exactly
no
uh i don't
no
actually the only camping
i ever did was was when i was a scout and as much as i would like to you know to do it
i you know don't really have the time right now
but i've got two young boys
and i'm waiting for them to get a little bit older and then we'll start doing some camping
oh great
uh_huh
oh i see
yeah
that's great
yeah
that's great
no
not yet
but i'll tell you i i know i was when i was smaller i started out indian [guides] and then went into cub cub for a very short time
and then we kind of i kind of got away from it for a while and then uh when i got back into it again
i was ready for for boy scouts
and i joined the scouts
but i tell you i i sure uh recommend it for any any any young boy girl too
i mean i really enjoyed my time in the scouts
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i think for a family [outing] it's good
uh but you know if you're with a bunch of uh preteen and and young teenagers who really want to rough it
yeah
i'd recommend going the old backpack method
yeah
yeah
i can understand that
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
i'm really looking forward to it you know i i really did enjoy my experience and i'm hoping my boys will enjoy it as much as i did
no
not yet
but i'll tell you i know my wife she hasn't she really wasn't well her family they used to go camping quite a bit when she was younger
and then as she got older they kind of stopped going
and she's expressed interest in going and doing some camping
so probably yeah
probably not that rough we're probably talking probably tents
yeah work her with with cots yeah
uh_huh
oh no
oh
uh-oh
oh no
really
i didn't know you can do that
oh not like corpus
okay
what uh what do you mean by camping
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
so like camping to you means tent camping and sleeping bag and to some people camping is going out you know in a motor home
oh
now camping to me is you know like the question said there's different types of camping
and going out in a tent and not being around any sort of facilities shower facilities
or bathroom facilities
i don't i don't really particularly care for that you know i don't mind staying in tents with sleeping bags and everything
but i like you know a bathroom near
or a shower near
uh_huh
right
you know when i was younger i would go up into colorado you know
and we'd go up and we'd hike up into the mountains and camp with tents
you know
and we wouldn't have anything
and then when i'd gotten a little older
right
like
right
i don't like to go camping now and stay in a tent without one of the big thick air [mattresses] to sleep on because the grounds a little bit
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
i i've tried those too
the only part of those
is that that they're really not wide enough for your arms to have any place to
hang down you know
yeah
uh_huh
right
no
yeah
i i don't either
you know some people even bring charcoal with them
and um
yes
yeah
that's that's what i like to use they just kind of look at me and go well why you going to go to that trouble
we have this coleman stove here
i just look at them and go
uh_huh
that's like the people that bring instant coffee with them too
heat up their water and i go what's wrong with a coffee pot you know
yeah
that's right
well i enjoyed talking with you
thank you
okay
what do you consider as as camping
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
well the only camping
the only camping i've done really is living in a tent
we used to go to lake shasta like fifteen years in a row
and uh you know take everything up there park our car unload the car
and then go by boat to the camp spot you know two or three trips back to the car to unload everything
and uh the
no
no
it was just a little camp spot that we found our you know by ourselves
and it was
usually in a little place called [calucci] creek
and uh you know we put up our eating tent our john tent and our sleeping tent and uh slept in in the tent you know on
well you know what it is it's actually one of those little tents that you take to the beach and you set up to change your clothes in
that's what we use to put around our john
yeah
it was like two weeks
uh_huh
uh it was
well just
it was it was nice for a while
but after fifteen years
i got tired of it
and then my next my next vacation trip was to hawaii
right
right
but uh i've never gone anyplace else really except lake shasta camping
you know
no [patterson's] down by modesto it's like twenty minutes away
i used to live in oakland
and uh used to go camping all the time up there
but i've lived down here in patterson now since eighty eight
you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you have little kids that like to
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
it's fun for kids though isn't it
you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm ready to go camping again i i did go camping in a in a camper on a pickup deer hunting
uh over a weekend so know lived in a camper on that
yeah
it's that's not too bad
at least you're inside you don't have to worry about the bears and uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
but
uh_huh
yeah
it it it would be fun to go camping up there again i haven't been up to yosemite for god i don't know how many years i would love to go up there again
uh_huh
yeah
i know they said the road up there is terrible now you know with all the traffic
it was a long time ago that i went there
but i've only been there once
you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
but it's beautiful though
you look outside in the dark and you see all the all the stars up there and everything
compared to you know living in the
how did you first get involved in camping
yeah
uh_huh
are you a native texan
okay
i guess i grew up camping my folks were big campers from day one as far as i can remember we grew up in southern oklahoma
and they were uh we were always at texoma some camping area always either texas or oklahoma
and i was involved in boy scouts as a young kid
and we were camping uh seem like every other weekend we would go somewhere i when they talk about the [definitions] of camping
it kind of struck me as funny
my brother and sister in law live in oregon and go camping uh a lot during the spring and summer and fall
but their idea of camping is a little bit different than mine they have a fifth wheel trailer that they pull it has you know two bedrooms a tv and microwave and stove and all that kind of stuff
and he pulls it with a big pickup
when i go camping
i usually take a sleeping bag and some cooking stuff
and that's about it
well it's not like leaving home
when you take it with you
the whole idea is to get away from it
i have been
and some of the boy scouts have been up in there
they have got some great hiking trails and camping areas up in there
uh_huh
i'm not familiar with that one
yeah
oh yeah
well that's a fact
yeah
a lot of my camping was up in the [arbuckles] as i was growing up
there's a place that used to be called [platte] national park
up around sulphur and davis and not too far from turner falls
they
i have heard they since changed name of the park to something else
but it was one of those parks with a natural uh spring fed river that [flows] through the camp sites you know all along the river the water was real cold
because it was spring fed but just like i say it's a beautiful area lots of hills to go camping in uh dad never believed in tent camping
uh we had some old army cots that we would sleep on uh come good weather or not many of times we were sleeping out under the stars and it would start raining
and we would all wind up in the car and that got pretty cramped sometimes
a lot of good memories in camping
you know it helps you [unwind] and get away and forget about t i and everything else back home
i guess
no
i haven't
i've never been up there
yeah
well that's true
i've never thought heard about it [countless] times
but never thought about going up there
yeah
oh yeah
well that would be great that
shoot let come what may
and they're fairly close to the water aren't they when they throw right on the lake
have they got a place where you can uh keep your boat while you're there for the weekend
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
it's time
that's right
i'd forgotten then all about the texan side and that's
but you got to be a member of texans to use it
yeah
oh that's outstanding
oh yeah
i've got a boy that is thirteen and the girl is eleven the boy had learned to ski oh probably two years ago
he's a [slalom] skier now
and the girl is eleven
and she just now started to learn to ski
i've got a sixteen
and a half foot [bayliner] it's [inboard] outboard just a ski boat
it's about the right size for us
yeah
i know them you bet
goodness
yeah
i expect it would
yeah
but boy it would move you across the water though
that's what you want
plus out on texoma you have got all that you know mass of water to get across outstanding
uh_huh
you're right
that's what happened to us
we had a boat for several years in early marriage and along came the kids and it kind of sat there
and so we wound up selling it
and it's been about uh i'd say eleven years since we got back into boating now they are big enough
you bet
plus they can help now too
they don't go along for the ride
well i guess that's our five minutes now
so we will
we will call this thing to a halt
i appreciate talking to you bill
sure
uh well i had only had the boat two years now
most of the time we either go out to lavon or we have been going up to arkansas her parents live up on beaver lake in northwest arkansas
it's a dammed up the white river real pretty arkansas lake
but we are hoping to explore a lot of the lakes around texas and stay close to home
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
well i have heard a lot about possum kingdom oh yeah
it's not over crowded
see that's one of my biggest [gripes] about texoma as many times as we would go up there
it's so rough
that sounds
oh no
well that sounds like a good place to start out this spring
i'm looking forward to it
all right
thanks a lot
nice talking to you
well there are several things that we've done as a family uh as far as uh when we go on vacation we have four children and so it's difficult sometimes for us to afford the hotel all the time
and so we take our tent
and we pitch it
and our kids are just great at camping my husband and my son are scouts and are very adept at that kind of thing
and so it makes it a successful thing you know we just pitch the tent
and we find the campgrounds that have facilities which is really nice because there are a lot of them across the united states now
and um an uh uh like i said our kids are just really good
and we have a four year old and even he's not any big problem with it
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
they're nice too
yeah
um and i was a den mother for a while too
and uh like they have a thing called mom and me
and that's right
you'd go out with them
even the mothers do
and camp over night
so
oh how fun
uh_huh
yes
yeah
uh_huh
we did have a really bad experience uh we went to corpus christi one year
and uh while we were there we uh had camped on kind of a sandy ground area
instead of uh the hard firm uh dirt ground
and in the night there came a very uh windy type weather and it blew our stakes out
an and the the tent fell yeah
yeah
so that wasn't too exciting
but good experience for us to know that we definitely needed to do the stakes into a firm ground
yeah
exactly exactly
uh_huh
oh how fun
oh uh_huh
and stays huh
well that sounds neat
yeah
see that's that's very nice
the only thing i think about camping is when you have to cook outdoors
and you don't always have to do that
but uh we have a dutch oven
and and we found some really fun recipes that we can do in that that are quite [tasteful] we've done that before
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
oh [jeepers] uh_huh
well i think camping is one of those things that you can make memories with
so i think it's a wonderful activity
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well i'm from utah an
before we moved to texas
and uh i i see the different kinds of camping
there are you know like the mountain camping
and then here it's mostly [flatland] and uh i'm not sure which i like better
it's kind of nice to be on flat land
but but i think you get a more scenic type thing in there
so
no
i don't think we've ever gone there
oh that sounds nice
well thank you
i've enjoyed talking to you
well go go go
have a good day
uh well yeah
fair amount mostly with boy scouts
well mostly uh well boy scout camps near uh near dallas uh in fact i i think i know your sons danny and sean right
jan [novak] but we can talk about camping nonetheless they didn't
but we we should talk about camping because they're recording this
uh_huh
well we used to do a lot of camping uh in fact before we had kids [marie] and i would go we did a lot of canoe camping uh either in upstate new york where there are a lot of lakes up near lake [placid] and in that area
and in northern ontario which is also full of lakes
and some of our longest trips went for about six days and covered about seventy miles
you canoe uh from lake to lake sometimes by rivers where they connect or else you have to [portage] your canoe and all your equipment
to the next lake
and so that that was a
i i think it's a lot in a way easier to go canoe camping because you don't have to watch the weight so much
and it's also cleaner because you can go swimming every day
and it's very easy to keep
keep cool
and keep clean
and that's what what river was that
yeah
i've i've seen the russian river we never went canoeing on it
that that can get pretty fast
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
sure
yeah
well you have to be have to be careful
have to be careful
you your guys are going to [philmont] are they
right
so [danny's] not going again
okay
well i'll i'm going with them
no
okay
uh what what is it
what does camping mean to you
and and what camping
have you done
um
well what uh what what do you mean by environmental camping
oh okay
but yeah
that's neat
i've not not not had that available anywhere that i've
lived at well
what what state is that
california okay
i'm in texas
and uh uh but most of the camping that we've done we spent uh ten years in new england and my wife and i did a lot of tent camping before uh
our first uh boy was born uh there in the state parks in uh new england
and uh here in texas
there are there are state parks where they have uh uh shelters they're called they're wood frame on a concrete slab screened in
kinds of of shelters and but they have electricity
and uh water at those cabins
cabins
well that's the
no
the
there's uh one outlet and a light in the cabin uh an overhead one overhead bulb
and then just outside the cabin there's a a [faucet] coming up out of the pipe coming up out of the ground
so that there's access to water like that uh
well
uh no
it's it's the ones that i'm familiar with are are uh basically wooded areas uh texas has an awful lot of of man made lakes
and uh uh tend to be uh wooded areas around those
lakes
i'm in i'm in dallas northeast
uh
yeah
oh yes
yeah
yes
there you you could you know depending on what kind of camping
you wanted why uh you go an hour in a different direction here you go three hours in any direction
and it's still about the same
so
uh that's a difference
but we also
well well we didn't we took a break from camping uh for with the the uh boys until they uh they got into scouts
basically
and uh
and our biggest one we rented a pop up tent trailer uh several years ago and went up to uh the black hills and back down through the
uh colorado
rocky mountain national uh park and colorado springs area
and so forth
[pikes] peak
and that was a that was a lot of fun
yeah
oh okay
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
right
right
at at at at two she's old enough to walk
but not too far
i would guess
and
right
right
right
right
but you also don't do a lot of hiking associated with the camping
i presume yeah
yeah
it sounds good
sounds good
and uh
yeah
yeah
uh uh
and uh although it it after a while
it gets with teenage boys at this point
well one's in college
but uh
well do you go camping glen by camping
you you mean really roughing it
oh i bet that was
uh well i've our children were growing up also uh we had a boat
and we'd go camping on the long weekends uh memorial day
fourth of july labor day
and uh we went with some good friends
and we'd get as many you know involved as we could and so our kids really grew up all through uh you might say junior high and high school camping
and uh we've really had a good time doing it
uh we went to a lake called lake tawakoni uh it's just kind of east and south of here in texas
and uh we camped outside one time we had a tornado come through our campgrounds it was kind of interesting
we had snakes and [armadillos]
and all the fun things that that make memories a bear
oh
oh
oh
uh_huh
didn't didn't mind you being there a bit huh
oh
first time huh well
maybe you'll get a chance to go again
take them
well we kind of gave up camping about three four years ago to
and we built a lake house
and so now all our outdoor activities are centered around the lake house
we're we're still outside
but we we figured we're getting a little too old to
rough it as much as we used to
i didn't know they did
yeah
oh
you know there's probably not any part of the country that doesn't experience them every once in a while
i bet yellowstone was a neat place to camp in
we we went up we pulled a trailer out there from illinois
uh when uh probably about nineteen seventy four i'm no no no no it was before that it was must have been nineteen seventy two before we moved to texas
and uh we had like a sixteen foot trailer
that uh we pulled behind the car and all the kids and the dog
and everything and actually i i think i liked the camping with the tent better than pulling with the trailer
but we made it out to yellowstone
and it was gorgeous
never forget that
yeah
it was
and uh we needless to say we we haven't done it again
um i'm a more of a want to be
uh my wife uh uh was an only child
but her family all though her [adolescence] had a uh small pull behind trailer
so they didn't go out necessarily camping in tents and such
but they did a lot of weekend uh trips all through the midwest and the east uh [lancaster] pennsylvania
and so forth and so on
they did a lot of traveling with that
so if you can count that as camping which some people may or may not uh she had a lot of experience with that
and when we first uh got engaged and got married we you know kind of hung around and did a lot of stuff with her folks uh till they sold the trailer
and then finally they passed away
but don't have a whole lot of experience or opportunities to
but we're we're all kind of want to be here at the family
uh_huh
yeah
i know what you mean
sure
there you go
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's that's more like a mobile home
not a camper
uh_huh
yeah
i guess my kid you know my kids go to the y m uh or go to the uh girl scout camp uh there are several of them here in southwest ohio that are all run by the same uh council and they're usually there for a week each during the summer at some point
so they're they do a lot more [rustic] camping
but most of their meals are served in the mess hall i think they have one or two outings where they cook at the campsite uh out in the [fringes] of the uh of the park rather than uh than at than at the mess hall
so they get some of it
the only other opportunity really that i get anything like that is uh in the summer uh i'm a ham radio operator oh can't wait
it's like a pilgrimage to [mecca] but it's
and it's very convenient for me because it's only forty five minutes up the road
but uh for field day which is an exercise in the summer where ham you know it it's a couple of things
it's supposed to be a uh a demonstration of how the ham community can be [mobilized] to operate under [simulated] emergency or field conditions
yeah
or
well some people set up [towers] other people use a fishing line and pull wires up into trees and use wire antennas or whatever
depending on how [energetic] the club is
but uh you know it it's also a contest to see how many other ham stations you can contact who are doing the same thing
and then it's also a chance to get out with your buddies and drink beer and play radio all night or if if you know we have a number of women in the club also
but you know it's a chance to get out with your friends and drink beer and play radio all night
but we do go out to one of the local city city municipal whatever parks uh here in cincinnati and uh you know go up on top of a tall hill and string some wires up in the trees and such
and uh put out the picnic tables and uh lawn chairs and set up the equipment with a [generator] and set up a tent for the kids to sleep in or for the people who are who are uh taking a break to to go off and sleep in
and then use [propane] stove to cook breakfast at six o'clock the next morning with
and that's about as close to camping as i really have much of a chance to get right now
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
so
well i am new to texas  
so i don't even know what the law is   in the state  
do you  
oh that's right  
i think now that i recall reading about it in the paper  
um you know different things  
is it restricted to certain crimes  
or just  
uh_huh  
um well  
yes  
i know  
the one thing that i think is really sad about it as i recall from the articles that i've read is that if if people who have been there are going to be killed um there's people that come to the prisons and they're very violent  
and they want  
i mean they're anxious for someone to be killed  
i just  
i can't see that  
uh_huh  
no  
well there is so many chances for appeal that it  

it's really sad  
i don't know  
i just think um  
somehow i hoped that as a people we could be better than than um expecting   the feeling that it  
with  
someone is calling for someone else to be killed you know  
is really kind of bad  
um   that's true  
and there really are criminals that are hard core and   repeat and never have any chance for  
oh i don't know  
is it  
do you feel at all like it's a religious issue  
uh_huh  
um  
i don't know  
sometimes i feel  
i mean i do go to church and things  
i don't know how i would feel about it  
but like you say if it hit you personally   closer at home you would feel   feel differently  
do you think most states have that  
or  
uh_huh huh  
that still does it  
that's right  
uh_huh  
have that  
well and it doesn't seem like very many people uh are really i mean  
there's a lot of people that are on death row   but there's not very many people that actually um do get killed  
uh_huh  
so it seems like a of people live there  
and then through appeals  
because i know they do frequently  
i mean they cover cover it pretty heavily on television and the newspaper  
if it finally gets to that point  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so is it uh  
are we doing lethal injection now  
uh_huh  
which seems so awful  
so it's a little bit more humane  
i guess it is  
yes  
the other one just seems so terrible  
um  
well do you think that we do it because we want it to deter crime  
or it's not because we don't want to pay for inmates to stay in prison  
uh_huh  
um  
yes  
um well um and i notice that the crime rate was up in the dallas area  
it's   it's kind of been scary   to think about it  
and   and you're hoping there is something that will cut down on that  
you hate to have the [dubious] honor of being you know so high in the   in statistics  
but i you know  
we have been really fortunate  
our family   hasn't had any crime  
and so we don't  
it's harder to think about the poor people that have suffered that way  
and how they would expect   how they would hope  
i mean you you hear of people who have um committed crimes and then they get out of jail and they go and they do the same thing again  
and you wonder why they can't just stop it  
so maybe you would  
but still i would hate to be on the jury that sentenced someone  
no  
i know when um  
we just we moved here uh i from the i got a summons jury summons  
just like constantly it seemed like  
but fortunately i had small children  
and i didn't have to go  
and it's not that  
i mean i think everyone should have to serve on the jury  
it's just that i didn't  
i hate having to be in charge of someone else's life  
and i would hate to have to hear any kind of case   involving a violent crime or anything  
that would be really awful  
well anyway i sure have enjoyed uh talking to you about this although it has been difficult  
but uh  
i'd hate to decide it but i guess uh guess it's important   that we decide as a people what what we're going to do  
anyway well you have a good day  
thank you  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
well yes  
of course we do have capital punishment  
and we've you know done away with our quote fair share number  
yes  
yes  
it's certain crimes uh capital crimes murder of course uh rape   this sort of thing  
it seems to be a [disproportionate] number of blacks you know that get into the system  
uh_huh  
yes  
that happens on occasion  
it sure does  
maybe it just depends on you know how closely the crime you know   has affected you personally  
you know i don't know  
or a person personally  
i think i would be you know  
i guess really if i had to say yes or no i guess i would say you know that i am in certain cases in favor of the death penalty  
i don't know that it's a big deterrent really  
i don't know that it is  
i don't know how we'd ever find out you know really whether it is or not  
oh yeah  
oh absolutely  
yeah  
it goes on for years and years and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars taxpayer money  
yeah  
yes  
yes uh_huh  
yes  
it is  
it's a tough tough question  
it really is  
i suspect i would be uh you know a lot more favor of it if you know one of my children were you know [brutally] killed or something like that  
like i say i think it depends on how personally affected you know you might be by it  
oh absolutely  
that's right  
not with me personally  
it is with a lot of other people  
it's not not to me personally  
no  
no  
uh_huh  
yes  
that's a it's a tough tough question  
it really is  
yes  
i think most states do have capital punishment  
yes  
but i think the u s is one of the few countries that still do  
yes  
they're only  
i was reading something about it the other day  
i think there was only like six or eight countries in the world that have capital punishment still  
a lot of them had to have elected not to do so  
now i don't know what they do in place of it  
you know maybe it's life in [prisonment] or you know something  
i i don't know how they handle it  
i was surprised to learn that so few countries have capital punishment  
oh yes  
yes  
a lot of them do get their sentences [commuted] to something else  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
the first appeal is automatic  
so that delays it for a few years just right off the bat  
there's there's a lot of you know last minute uh things that happen cause a person not to   have to go through the whole thing  
yes  
uh_huh  
that's that's fairly recent i don't know how recent but fairly recent in the state of texas  
before that it was uh death by [electrocution]  
yes  
it certainly does  
yes  
it would almost have to be i suppose  
if you if you had to chose i guess i would i am sure i would take the lethal injection  
yes  
absolutely  
it's a it's a tough question  
it really is  
i guess if i had to say yes or no i would say you know yes  
i i would have to lean toward capital punishment you know for certain crimes  
no  
i don't think it's a monetary thing  
i think  
we hope that it will be you know some sort of deterrent or you know an eye for an eye type thing or something like that  
some of the crimes are just so brutal and so you know useless  
this may seem to be the best way out  
i don't know  
easiest way out maybe  
no  
i don't think it's a monetary thing  
yes  
especially the murder rate its just gone crazy  
yes  
absolutely  
yes  
i wish i had the answer for that  
everybody does  
yes  
it's nothing to be proud of  
certainly not  
yes  
yes  
so have we been very very fortunate  
that's right  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
so would i  
i fortunately i have never been in that circumstance  
i hope i never am like like everybody else  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
it's it's a big responsibility  
it really is  
yes  
so would i  
yes  
absolutely  
it is it's a tough subject  
it really is  
right  
that's right  
well thank you  
it's nice talking to you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
capital punishment  
oh i honestly don't feel like it's strict enough in my opinion  
uh_huh  
applied at all  
well i i just feel like there's a lot of murderers and rapists and everything else just walking the streets you know  
yes  
yes  
not getting paroled lets say in so many   years  
i mean if your going to sentence somebody lets say twenty years let them stay twenty years  
there has  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's   honestly right  
they have really got it better than we do in a lot of ways you know  
uh they sure are   just because   some innocent person can really  
it seems like really a rough time  
you know i'm not saying innocent person  
let's say someone wrote a hot check for instance  
you know it seems like when they go to prison it they really seem like it's a rough time for them  
and a murderer well go to prison oh  
he's just there to serve his time and get back out on the street  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
time uh_huh  
yes  
i was i would just be  
i would love to see them just really get real strict on parole   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you get   it back  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but it's  
i i know  
same thing  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh a lot of people really doesn't think that much about it because it hasn't happened to them which it hasn't to me either you know  
thank goodness  
but still it could  
yes  
uh_huh  
and as far as the other states i honestly don't know what their capital punishment is  
you know i i   haven't kept up you know anything   like that  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
yes  
but still it came up though didn't it  
i mean you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
the victim is really seems like left out in the cold more or less doesn't it  
in a lot of well especially in things you pick up the paper  
and you read   you know you think oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or you know plead insanity  
you know   and a lots of things  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
i  
it just   just doesn't make sense  
i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well like i   said i live in a small place you know  
but uh even the small towns now though has really changed from when i was a kid  
but now i'm raising children  
it it really is  
uh_huh  
see them  
yeah  
yeah  
it really is  
well we're probably fixing to run out of time pretty   soon  
but i've enjoyed talking to you  
bye  
okay  
bye bye  
in the way that it's applied   or it's applied at all  
so i  
how do you feel that it should be applied  
and that that the penalty ought to be out there and be enforced  
yeah  
that's  
i agree with that completely  
i know we don't have enough prisons  
but there has got to be some kind of punishment   for these people  
because if they turn around they can get away they get away with it  
and they get away with it  
and they get away with it  
and then they do something worse  
and they get a slap on the wrist  
they get   thirty days in jail  
and they final get up to where they kill somebody else  
and they go through fourteen appeals and   how many hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars  
and it's  
well they certainly are living off our   at our expense  
i didn't  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and and be paroled and   and have served the sentence  
that's what that's what people face with that choice  
one thing i really hate is they don't explain to the jurors in a in a trial in a capital murder trial or in cases of rape or in different things that are so horrible what it means when they sentence them to you know  
they'll sentence them to ninety years   and say that it's you know that it's going to you know  
that should be life  
but instead in in  
given the choice of either sentencing to death or sentencing to life they'll give them ninety years in prison or something and then turn around in thirty years that you know  
and less they're out  
even if if they're even in that long  
or they appeal  
and then they get an appeal that says it was you know an [unjust] amount of time   an extraordinary long length or something  
yeah  
i'd like to see the death penalty more as a deterrent  
i think people know that nobody that it doesn't you know  
it's not a deterrent right now because it's not really effective  
there's should be you know this for this crime this is the penalty  
you killed   someone   you know in cold blood   or whatever  
this is what's going to happen  
and i mean it sounds horrible  
it  
i hear myself saying this  
and but i   don't know what else to do with some of these people   that are  
because they let them back out again  
and they do the same thing over   and over   again  
then they put them back in jail  
and they get out  
and   and more and more innocent people are hurt or killed  
and these guys just are on the endless merry go round in the legal system  
and it's like i said at our expense  
yes  
i know  
i you read about it in the paper   every day somebody who's done this or that something really horrible  
and they just get away with it  
and nothing happens  
yeah  
i think   i think texas is texas the southern states seem to be somewhat more conservative and still have the death penalty  
and i think i know california had it for a long time  
and then they uh took it off the books  
they repealed it  
and people like charles manson and and some of these other people who were sentenced to death at the time they repealed the death penalty were sentenced to life in prison   and are now now that even though california has reinstated the death penalty for whatever various crimes  
the people who were there originally when they when they changed the laws to [revoke] the death penalty are still in there for are in prison in quote for life and and are now coming up for parole  
some of them   like manson who's come up   you know  
it's been denied fortunately  
but  
yeah  
well the jury that sentenced him sentenced him to death  
and then while he was on appeal on his [thousandth] and one appeal the state of california revoked the law in the early seventies  
and then they reinstated it later  
but the penalty didn't go back you know  
it seems like a lot of times the law is is totally on the criminal side and and isn't protecting the rest of the people  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the the laws are all the rules  
some of the things that would make sense to to tell the jury that this this guy has a a prior criminal history you know where he's raped ten women  
and then he gets up for this one trial  
and they don't finds anything out about the facts that he's done this over and over and over again  
and so they say well this is you know  
i i don't know if they say it's the first time offense or whatever  
but they give him a lighter sentence thinking he's not a habitual criminal  
yeah  
yeah well  
to some extent if they would do something with some of those people  
but that seems to be a good way to get off for a lot of them too  
they plead insanity  
and then three years later they're cured and let loose on society again  
i mean it's a   it's a scary world out there anymore where your afraid to go out  
i know in in the dallas metroplex area i don't go out hardly if i don't have to at night by myself  
and i i certainly i i grew up in a smaller town in texas  
and it wasn't that way when i was younger  
we could go around  
and boy and  
yes  
ever  
you can't even  
when i was a kid i would run between my neighbors three and four blocks sometimes and as long as my mom had a general idea where i was   and i was back on the time  
and now i don't let my kids out of the front yard that i can't see them  
uh_huh  
well good talking to you too  
bye  
bye  
okay [deanna] uh  
on capital punishment in our state they give the death penalty for shooting of a policeman  
and i believe also in shooting of uh rape i mean killing a rape victim   i mean someone in the process of rape  
and i don't know what i don't really remember what else  
but  
i think it's justified  
very much so  
i think it should be in other cases other than just shooting a policeman  
i mean i think they're doing their duty  
but i think if they're going to come out and kill somebody else then they deserve it  
that's right  
i agree  
right  
uh_huh  
oh i think  
right  
right  
did you see sixty minutes tonight by any chance  
well they were showing a segment on a man in philadelphia that's going after the drug dealers  
he's just a civilian  
he's a black man  
and he just got fed up with it  
and he said he's had his house broken into and windows smashed and his car stolen three times and everything trying to keep him quiet  
but he's organizing people  
and they're going out and marching on the corners and taking back their territory  
i think so  
i think  
that's right  
i think you're right  
right  
we won't allow this in our neighborhood  
and it said they're going to other neighborhoods from there  
and then quite often they'll get shot   because they're [horning] in on somebody else's territory  
i think they said forty one had been shot out of one church in the last year  
right  
i know it  
well it goes all through the it goes all through the state supreme court system before they're  
uh_huh  
then it should happen  
yeah  
that's right  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
it is  
i know  
but that that's the way it is  
we had one in virginia that was sentenced to death  
and the execution was to have taken place a few weeks ago  
i don't know if there was anything in your paper about it  
and there was a lot of protest  
even robert [redford] you know was protesting this guy's execution  
so the governor backed down  
and i was so mad  
the crime was horrible his crime was just horrible  
no  
i don't think  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
and being under the influence of drugs is no excuse to me  
right  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
i do too  
right  
wasn't it [lewisburg] that had a lot of uh bad things happening just in the last couple of weeks  
or was it not  
no  

it was i think it was the south east area   from dallas  
my daughter   my daughter lives down in rowlett  
and she was telling me about it  
yeah  
uh i can't remember what the town was some little area  
oh gosh  
and that's the last they  
yeah  
oh gee  
is that right  
i hadn't heard about that  
gosh  
they don't kill them  
they just  
gosh  
gosh  
boy that's scary isn't it  
yeah  
oh boy  
yeah  
you wouldn't even dare put these signs in the little [emblems] in the window saying child in this room in case of fire you know  
have you seen those  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
oh gosh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
oh boy  
and he's five  
[shoo] i guess so  
gee  
i know  
yeah  
there was a little girl picked up in rowlett from uh from her front yard  
and her dad was working in the back yard and had just left her few minutes in the front yard  
and somebody apparently drove up and took her  
and they never saw her again  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and watch  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't blame you  
uh_huh  
and if they find who's doing that to those little girls as far as i'm concerned he could   fry  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
that's terrible  
oh gosh  
it's going to be reduced  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's just not it just doesn't seem right  
well what are we going to do about it  
how i mean how can it be changed   unless the legislature will do something  
and they don't seem to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
i think so  
yeah  
i think it would be worth it everybody  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how do what do you think about it  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree i i agree you know  
i  
yeah  
oh i do too  
i do too  
they ought to get it for killing a civilian just as easily as a policeman  
yeah  
i agree  
uh i heard something on the news the other night they were talking about uh-oh i know what it was  
it was in our in our little local paper our little lewisville paper that comes out twice a week on the front page every week uh  
there's a little thing at the bottom  
it's like a call in survey that says you know do you think so  
and so and then you call this number  
and you press like one for yes and two for no  
and one of the things the questions the other day this last paper and i haven't seen the results of it i'm anxious to was do you think that um capital punishment ought to apply to drug dealers   which i thought was a real interesting question  
no  
i didn't  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you know i think that's what it's going to take though  
i really do  
oh yeah  
it's going to take uh you know  
the police i think i don't think can do it can do it alone you know  
it's going to take uh it's going to take all of us getting together  
i'm sorry i'm trying to  
my kid is asking for a kiss and a hug so he can go to bed  
it's going to take all of us you know getting together and just saying   we are not going to take it any more  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh  
that's right  
that's right uh  
oh my gosh  
the only thing about the death penalty and and i know that that they try to be careful  
and they try to be sure  
but these people are on death row for like twenty years you know  
you know  
if if you know  
i i think to be you know being convicted is one thing you know  
and that's and that's great if they're if they're sentenced to death  
to me you could not sentence them to death unless the case was for sure  
i mean it  
right  
right  
by the time it gets there  
and they've been convicted  
and then they've been sentenced to death  
they're sure  
i mean there's no doubt  
i mean i  
there can be no shadow of a doubt in my mind  
there has to be no shadow of a doubt to get that penalty  
so once they've gotten the penalty and there is no doubt do it you know  
just  
i i guess i mean that may sound that sounds cold  
but gosh you know we're keeping you know we're we're keeping these men in prison for fifteen or twenty years on death row   and not doing anything with them  
and it's costing us a heck of a lot of money  
and that's terrible to look at it that way  
but  
if the crime was bad enough that they were sentenced to death then do it you know uh  
i didn't notice it  
huh_uh  
gosh  
yeah  
oh man  
yeah  
and those kind of people i'm sorry you don't reform them you know  
i really  
you don't  
if they're the kind of people that commit these excuse me [grotesque] crimes and have done it over and over and over again you don't reform those kind of people  
no  
no  
and i don't know  
the same thing goes with some of these insanity [pleas] you know  
well if you're insane enough that you can go cut twelve people up into little bitty pieces and bury them in your back yard   then are can can you be helped you know  
i have i have my doubts you know  
i you know i don't know  
i think there's a point  
some of these plea bargains and all this kind of stuff that they do it's just it just gets out of hand  
and i understand that you know that you know  
my husband and i  
no  
no  
huh_uh  
oh really  
yeah  
oh really  
yeah  
we've had several here lately  
and it  
there were several of them in north dallas  
and then it started kind of happening a couple of places in south dallas  
and that's maybe what you were talking about  
men breaking in uh to houses and taking or a man  
they they think it's the same person taking uh little girls right straight out of their beds at night   and you know breaking in obviously watching them in the house   because they're breaking into the right window   you know the little girls bedroom   and taking them out putting them in a car and driving them out and taking them out and molesting them and then bringing them back and throwing them back in their own front yards  
yes  
that is happened  
i think there's been i think there's been like six or seven of them   over the last like probably eight or nine months  
they don't kill them  
no  
they've  
and they're all like um like anywhere from nine to twelve years old i think is what they've been  
and he's taken them and and raped them and then brought them right back and just kind of thrown them out of the car in their front yard  
oh can you imagine because it it happens in the middle of the night  
so the parent   you know these parents didn't know this the the kid was gone until the kid is knocking on the door screaming let me in  
you know can you imagine  
i you know i've got one of those in [brian's] room  
i never even thought about that  
god maybe i'll take it out  
i hadn't even thought about it  
that's terrible  
well it's really bad that you have to be you know  
we we were over at a neighbors tonight  
and my little boy is is just a little over two  
and their little boy is like five you know  
so there's a big difference  
and they were playing in the back yard  
and we were getting ready to leave  
and i went out in the back yard to get brian  
and the boys were gone  
and the back fence was open  
you know  
and she didn't act like it bothered her at all oh  
this happens all the time  
and we walked through the fence out the alleys come to the back of the house you know  
and and i looked down both directions of the alley  
and i saw neither one of them  
and uh   and she was like oh god he does this all the time you know where are you   you know screaming j d  
and you know   my heart was in my throat   you know  
and uh he brian was two houses down   you know  
and he you know  
i don't know  
parents around here just let their kids run everywhere  
and i just can't do that  
oh man this is too scary   that is just too scary  
you know i let brian play here in the back yard  
and we've got there's two gates that go into the back yard  
and we've got one of those big eight foot privacy fences  
and one of the gates has a [padlock] on it  
and then the other gate just has one of those slide bar things  
but it's on the inside  
it's  
you know you'd have to like come over they'd have to come over the fence  
they could not open a gate you know  
and i still feel a little uneasy about him playing back there  
you know i mean if i don't hear him playing i mean i i get up and come out and look out the window real often you know  
so  
it's really scary that you have to be that scared about your kids  
but   i mean you do  
better safe than sorry  
he could fry  
yes  
to put it very bluntly he could fry  
yes  
yes  
because sometimes there are crimes worse than murder  
you know  
i and i believe that  
and this is one of them  
because these little girls will never be the same  
never be the same  
so i don't know  
it's it's really scary  
and i don't know what to i don't know what needs to be done you know  
it seems like there's no room in jails to put them in jail  
and when they do put them in there you know  
i'm taking a business law class at night  
and the guy that teaches it is a practicing criminal attorney  
and   so he comes in and tell us all these bizarre cases you know  
and he said you can pretty much you know if you ever get on a jury you know you're not told this but if you ever get on a jury you can pretty much guess whatever you sentence them to  
they're going to serve about a quarter  
they'll serve they'll serve a quarter of it  
so if you want them to stay in prison for fifteen years don't sentence them to fifteen years sentence them to a hundred  
you know because then they'll serve fifteen or twenty so   which is really  
i don't know  
no  
it doesn't it doesn't  
they just get out you know  
there was a thing on  
i don't know  
that's the thing  
we're just going to have to adopt a completely different attitude  
and we're going to have to say if you commit this crime and if we're sure you commit this crime you are going to be sentenced to death period   period  
and do it you know  
and if you commit this crime you will be in prison for the rest of your life  
we're not going to say we're going to put you there for the rest of your life and let you out in fifteen years  
we're really going to do it you know  
it's just the system has just  
and i understand they're doing it because the prisons are full  
but somewhere we've got to come up with some money to build to build more   you know and keep these people in them you know  
well i was watching a show about this the other night  
and you know they were like in a i think it was on forty eight hours  
i guess i don't really have a problem with capital punishment  
i'm not really sure what the exact uh specifications are for texas  
i know that they uh have capital punishment for certain crimes  
and that's probably the way i feel about it is is uh it kind of depends on the crime that's committed  
my belief all my life i guess has been that that if you take someone else's life then you automatically are giving up uh yours in place of it  
but i don't  
seems to be a lot of controversy about that  
that's true  
i guess well there's there's probably two or three different types of of views as far as the controversy goes  
i can see where if a life was taken by accident or uh i don't know what you'd call it not premeditated or i guess primarily by accident uh there may be cases where the death penalty is not called for  
but i lean towards   if it's premeditated or if it's uh kind of a habitual or or a habit that uh a tendency that people uh may get into then i guess i don't really have a problem with it  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's what aggravates a lot of people is somebody does get a life sentence in place of the death penalty  
and they wind up back on the streets after five years or six years or like the kid on the news tonight out in mesquite who was out in six months  
no  
right  
no  
it's not  
you think of your chances of getting the death penalty after uh committing a crime are really pretty slim right now  
and you can   probably spend uh a lot of time uh or maybe eventually uh just waiting it out  
and that's where a lot of [aggravation] comes i think is is uh these guys spend so much time in the appeal process or just in the waiting process  
they may spend years  
and you know the last i heard it was costing ten twenty thirty thousand dollars a year uh   to keep these guys waiting  
yeah  
to yeah to carry it out  
it sort of takes the justice out of the justice system  
yeah  
it should be over and done with  
yeah  
it is  
and she winds up being a a victim   day after day after day  
right  
she   she's an emotional victim  
and you know the like you say the cops that are out doing the work   day by day have got to have a lot of frustration when they see all their work   basically go out the window  
yes  
they are  
well that's about five minutes  
so   unless you've got something else well  
it's a pleasure talking with you  
[okeydoke]  
good bye  
yeah  
uh uh i tend to agree with you uh you know  
probably pretty similar views on it  
but that's that's one of the things i don't don't understand is is so much of the controversy  
because uh you know i i do also myself believe in capital punishment uh  
uh you know it it really irks me to see so much effort put into preventing someone being put to death by the state when they so [callously] and usually so you know without even thinking or without any concern uh you know end somebody else's life and in a lot of cases several people's lives  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's that's kind of the way i feel  
if if you've got a guy who's who's been to trial and has been in and out of jail you know basically a a three time loser for the [twelfth] time you know and he goes out and kills somebody he's not going to be reformed  
he's not going to get any better you know  
it's it's not going to it's just not going to get any better  
and and the only thing you know  
a lot of people have the opinion that you know don't don't have capital punishment  
but give them life in jail  
and you know i could go along with that if if i could be assured that it would be their natural life in jail and not parole after ten   or twelve years  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's it's just our criminal system is just so i guess overloaded  
but the you know the the problem is not so much with the prison system you know  
i mean because the the cops are out there doing their job enforcing the laws  
and the prison system are just you know  
they're trying to cope with them  
but you know the thing about capital punishment i you know  
a lot of people don't think it would be a deterrent uh to to future crime  
and the way it is now it's not  
because you know you  
if like  
the state of texas for example may uh you know may execute somebody twice a year  
you know that's that's no kind of deterrent because we we've got literally hundreds of people on death row and and many of them who have been there for literally for ten or fifteen years   on death row  
and that's that's certainly no kind of deterrent  
and i would tend to agree with anybody who says right now that it it's not a [terrent] a deterrent because it's not  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it it's amazing  
there's uh there's a girl i work with our secretary as a matter of fact  
her her father was murdered her father and three other guys up here in sherman  
and the uh the guy that they tried and convicted and sentenced him to death you know he's been on death row for like eight years  
and you know this this was her father uh you know that that got killed you know just cold blooded murder him and three other people  
and but still for some reason you know this this guy's sentence has not been carried out you know  
he's sitting on death row for eight years after having killed four people  
and the state still can't bring itself to to execute   this guy  
it does  
it really does you know  
she and they have to go back uh  
occasionally you know she has to write letters to the parole board and you know lawyers  
and just just ever so often she [mentions] well she's got to do something else you know write another letter   or do something  
it's just  
yeah  
yeah  
you know she should be getting on with her life you know getting getting that part behind her  
but yet it's it's kind of tied to her the way it is now  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
a victim  
not only of indirectly of the crime but also indirectly by that   [indirect] involvement  
it's just it's   it's ridiculous  
yeah  
yeah  
it it's terrible you know  
and  
yeah  
oh that  
oh man i i couldn't be a cop for that for that very reason you know because they do  
the the criminal gets right back out  
and you know the [cop's] just got to go back and and do his thing all over again because so many of the crimes are are done by repeat offenders  
it's  
yeah  
no  
all right  
ron we'll see you later  
bye bye  
all right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
i think that  
i don't know  
i i don't think our prison system isn't set up   where we um rehabilitate or you know restore anybody  
i think it'll only make them worse  
but i i believe that god can come in and change a person's heart and genuinely change it  
but that doesn't [negate] that you do reap what you [sow]  
and if you do kill a person and it is you know you're found to be guilty i believe god [establishes] the authority of our court system  
and i believe that you know that i do believe that capital punishment is uh alternative  
even you know god can still change your heart  
but that doesn't mean  
like the alcoholic that charges up all the bills on the credit card or the [shopaholic] you know you get your life right with god  
but you still have to pay your visa bill  
you still have to you know  
so but god sent us his grace  
and they give [pardons]  
but i believe if it's a genuine conversion there's a genuine  
and those prison people know they know a genuine [turnaround] in a person's character  
they see that  
and i i worked in a prison in fort worth  
yeah  
i have a degree in social work  
you see it you know the ones that have a genuine character change  
it is obvious  
and they know that  
they're they're not going to pardon someone from the governor  
you know what i'm saying  
they're not going to go without going through every channel of authority in the prison  
so i feel like you know that's is there is occasions where there are they do spare lives  
and you know i leave that with the governor who of course is going to go through every authority because they want to be be reelected  
so  
uh_huh  
punishment  
yeah  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
but in in the old testament  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
we don't  
well yeah  
we definitely have lost the judeo christian ethic of the judicial system for sure  
but the the base is still there the foundation is still there though of the system  
but i know what you're saying uh  
but also they're under a law because we haven't been removed from the law  
we've just been taken out from under under a law  
because under the law if your child back talks you   he would be stoned  
he under the law he would be stoned  
so we've been removed from the law of from being under the law  
but we're still you know we're still accountable to it  
we don't need to back talk  
but you know it's like god changes your heart to not do that  
he changes your heart not to look upon a woman in [lust]  
because in the old testament they could look all they wanted just couldn't do it  
but in the new he's looking at your heart  
and so i guess that's what what i mean by their character changes and you know what i mean it's like looking beyond what they're doing and looking at a heart and seeing what is the heart what's the character showing me here  
and those and then any of  
if i don't think see if i don't believe that there's not a character change and the authorities agree that this person needs to be excused i believe for murder uh rape i even believe [incest] things   that will permanently damage uh the character of the child  
i believe crimes against children should be punished by by death i believe   sexual crimes unless there's a true change of character  
and that's where we just have to to trust the authorities  
and they're not going to excuse people if it was was run like that  
i don't  
there would probably be very few exceptions to that  
and if it was done quickly and done [swiftly]  
and but it's not because the judicial system has rejected they've rejected the answer to all these problems they have pretty much  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
anybody  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
i know in jamaica uh it think it's jamaica i think it's jamaica i know that they have you know crimes punishable by death  
and i'm sure they hit a few every now and then  
and i wouldn't want to be one of them that are not guilty  
but i know that they have like uh their crime rate  
it's not jamaica  
i don't think  
i can't remember which  
it's uh one of the caribbean islands  
and and they singapore is it like that  
my husband's going singapore  
and they don't have a lot of the crime because there is a law  
and the law is enforced  
and that's what when you have [lawlessness]  
i mean the law's not being enforced  
and all that does is [lawlessness]  
we were we went on a mission trip to manhattan and to the [bronx] and stuff two years ago  
and all these kids were up on there getting arrested for crack  
and everyone was out  
uh we were across from that big bus station  
i forget what you call it  
but anyway and everyone they had like fifteen people lined up on the fence  
and within two hours there were fifteen boys sitting there doing the same thing  
and you'd see the same kid who were back out there in two days  
because there's no the answer is not being given to them in the court system  
and i think initially when our country was set up it was set up with god  
and it was really an [integral] part  
and no  
you can't you can't force people  
but i think people are hurting  
and they're out doing crack sitting on the street  
they were the kind of people that  
i think mostly we would want to receive it  
if it was presented to see  
i don't know  
i guess i'm kind of frustrated that you know we've gotten away from the christian basis that our court system was founded upon  
i mean it reeks of the bible just the whole thing the whole system  
and so i feel like if that was presented more openly and not just relying upon and [para] church [ministry] to come in and do it that that the system itself  
you know you know what i mean  
i feel like that might be better if it was run on a more [scriptural] basis which would include you know you know and [expediting] the penalties and just getting it over with  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i know you're right  
they would lobby that  
and and i see that  
and that's why you know i'm like okay what's my role in this thing you know   what's my part  
because i don't think the system is going to get fixed  
i think it's crippled  
um there was a crime here in mckinney   uh a rather heinous murder  
there was no um remorse shown by uh at least one of the [perpetrators]  
and yet for whatever reason um his crime was not considered a capital crime  
an and quite honestly i i feel very strongly that the man the has no redeeming social values  
and if if and when he comes gets free again   he will have no [compunction] but to complete that that same kind of lifestyle i mean continue that same kind of lifestyle   and perhaps do the same thing again  
so it really bothers me that there's not a way of getting him out of the way forever  
that's that's right  
but  
yeah  
did you  
uh_huh  
yes  
but my concern is   first of all that not all all persons who i think should be receiving capital uh   whatever capital uh uh uh hum   punishment  
thank you i'm sorry i just got home from work  
and i'm just kind of spaced out a little bit  
uh that not all of them are being convicted of it that that the the they're not even being charged with that  
i agree with you that that   a person's heart can be changed  
but the same god that can work that miracle also established the laws that said um for certain kinds of sin certain kinds of of uh breaking of the law there would be a capital punishment  
right then it was it was uh almost immediate  
as soon as as the trial was over then it was [stoning]  
we don't have a speedy trial  
we don't have speedy um punishment  
and so it kind of loses its meaning   if you sit on death row for months and years and so forth  
that's correct  
uh_huh  
i tend to agree on that very strongly  
plus the all the judicial system is overloaded with   all kinds of um problems and crimes and so forth and then all of the um civil things that [clog] the courts  
and having sat on both uh uh criminal and a civil uh jury   some of what goes through our courts is a total waste of time  
because we're suit happy  
but but back to the to the capital situation sounds like you and i have a lot of of of uh common ground at least as as far as as capital punishment is concerned  
i would like to see some some kind of reform or some kind of streamlining so that if a person is um convicted   and sentenced to to death that that automatic appeal which goes in could be more quickly dealt with  
and and go ahead and get the punishment phase out of the way because it doesn't do the criminal or the victim's family   any of us the taxpayer any good to have him sitting around for months and years  
an an  
him could be a her  
but  
um  
that's sad  
yeah  
however certain uh very liberal minded groups who do not um subscribe to the same ethical system that you and i do   such as the uh civil liberties unions and so forth   will lobby against that and hold that out as long as they have breath   which is most unfortunate because we all lose out   when people go so far out to the extreme on either side  
because too too often they're can be [extremism] that that hurts from from any direction   regardless of whatever you're arguing or concerned about  
yeah  
i think you got it  
uh_huh  
well it sounds like you have really strong views on it  
and i can see that point  
but i also have this you know  
i i question  
i guess i can look at it both ways  
and just to play devil's advocate   it never seems right to me that uh we take in people that are criminals   and people that are you know low income or even middle income that are struggling to provide for their families  
our taxes are paying to feed and shelter those people  
and it just  
that that i find very difficult to swallow   sometimes  
uh_huh  
i'm with you there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

right  
exactly  
and then when you think of the thousands and thousands of dollars that get burned in court costs   you know we could be feeding poor people and helping you know   helping the environment  
i mean prison is such a waste of a human being  
it doesn't do anyone any good  
yes  
people need to be punished  
and i do agree with your statement that to take a human life is wrong  
um but you know  
but locking someone up and not getting you know any benefit   from that for the person or for society to me is wrong too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh exactly  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
we want a   safe environment for ourselves  
and we want to remove them  
but but i think that the whole [crux] of the problem is   no one has come up with a solution   that is acceptable   that does you know basically you know  
i i think you know that the whole idea of uh the death penalty was invented for two reasons  
it [removes] them from society  
and number two it's it's kind of uh it's the punishment it's the ultimate punishment   because you know they've harmed someone  
and and you know you want to [appease] the people that have suffered  
but it it really doesn't take their pain away  
uh_huh  
but it's a  
right  
exactly  
but that  
the the problem is so incredibly complex  
i have a friend who works on the pardon and [paroles]  
and she interviews   inmates all the time that are coming up for parole  
and she says it is just really frightening how easy it is to you know have the prisons release people because they're overcrowded  
and these people have not benefited from the stay there  
she says just their emotional state and their way of thinking is so incredibly wrong  
and there's not anything she can do to keep them in you know   if they meet certain guidelines   you know  
and those guidelines keep getting lessened and lessened because they have to do it to make the system work  
so it's  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
i know  
i know  
i i would like to see the money that's been budgeted budgeted for new prisons being put into the research of of alternate solutions to the problem  
how are we going to fix that tanya  
how are we going to make that happen  
what power do we have  
uh_huh  
that's right  
really  
i know  
i know  
but it it sounds like you are uh you know   interested in what's going on around you  
and uh you know when you have a a voice you do contribute  
and i guess that's you know what what we're meant to do  
maybe an opportunity will come by that we will have a chance to make a real change  
where do you work  
oh you do  
that's great  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
most of us are so sheltered you know  
and a few people in the news that bring it to us   and make us see what's out there  
well that's  
you're you're really performing a a benefit to society   in doing that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i'm just i'm just agreeing with you when i think of it how difficult it must be to just to just give the facts because usually on an issue that you really care about uh you want you want to you know persuade people to your viewpoint  
and you're right  
that has got to be a challenge sometimes  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
and you have to walk right down the middle with it  
yeah  
i'm sure  
well that's that sounds interesting  
and i'll read your book sometime  
i enjoyed it  
thanks for calling  
okay  
uh my first thoughts on capital punishment  
i  
the first thing i want to say is no just simply because we as human beings don't have the right to take another human [being's] life  
uh we are punishing someone for taking someone's life  
or in some cases we are punishing a person for taking someone's life  
and so in effect we are committing that same crime  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

uh_huh  
one thing i don't understand is the the whole concept of death row  
okay  
these people are supposedly i guess waiting to die  
right  
okay  
and there are thousands upon   thousands of people on   death row  
and i'm not saying that oh  
i guess i am kind of saying what what are we doing  
i mean i guess that's the same thing you were saying  
what what are we doing with these people  
they're there  
we should either take some kind of action   or take enough or   go a different route  
but they're just  
oh exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
right  
but  
uh_huh  
and i guess i see both sides in that at the at the same time that i'm saying that you know we're committing the same crime  
i also agree that i mean if there is somebody out there that's crazy and cruel enough   to kill somebody or   in some cases kill several people at one time uh  
there was a case in dallas  
well i'm sure they haven't gone to court yet  
but uh apparently two teenage boys held up a taco bell  
they put four people in a freezer and shot them all  
now to me that is [inhumane]  
and for two people to be out in the world like that i don't i don't want them in my world  
you understand what i am saying  
i'm i'm i mean i'm not for killing anyone  
but i don't want these people around   at the same time  
exactly  
uh_huh  
right  
and   uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
and at and at the same time like you said it [drains] society  
we  
i think we should be  
we  
the same money that we're using to build more prisons and make more prison space and keep these people in prison that same money or half of that money could be used towards uh rehabilitation programs of some sort  
something   to get to to put these people back in society  
but prepare them first  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
and you want people out of prison  
and you want people to get jobs and   and live happy lives  
but they can't just walk out of prison and do that  
they can't just   walk out of prison and say okay i'm going to go a different route  
there has to be some sort of buffer   in there  
some sort of program or  
and i know this costs money  
but it couldn't cost any more money than we're already spending  
uh_huh  
really how  
what can we do  
oh goodness  
i mean you know everyone's trying to make it you know in their own little world  
you know i'm trying to make it with my job and make you know myself okay and make my   family okay  
and it's so hard to you know try and be one of the [movers] and [shakers] i guess you would call them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
right  
uh_huh  
and i i'm a broadcast [journalist]  
and so i feel like one day i probably will write a book or or something you know  
and some of these views   will be able to come out  
i work at channel six here  
i'm i'm a   news reporter  
and so i i guess i'm i'm pretty emotional about crime things like that now  
i've only been in it for a year  
but i get   to see pretty much uh close up you know a lot of things that happen that people don't see  
uh i got to get to see a lot of crimes  
and i get to see you know people's uh pain and things  
and so when we talk about  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a service  
yeah  
but still you know we can't we can't  
i don't know  
i i guess i would like to probably [editorialize] more  
we have to just report what's happening  
we   can't say well this is what i think about you know   the situation  
sometimes you really want to say that  
you really want to say you think or what you think should be done or how you think this court case should have gone  
or you know that's a  
uh_huh  
especially when you are dealing with a a subject like uh capital punishment or something or   abortion or something where there's an an no or yes side  
and you   have your side  
and you have to report both sides  
but you really don't want to because you have your side  
yeah  
yeah  
so sometimes that's hard  
but   uh_huh  
that's good  
all right  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
okay  
bye bye  
i'll let you go first  
yeah  
it seems like they could die of old age waiting to get the death penalty  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
um i  
in maryland they they do have capital punishment  
and uh i've seen uh a lot of people get convicted sentenced  
and then just nothing happens   just endless endless endless appeals  
yeah  
what's amazing is some of them have been on death row for a number of years  
and uh here in maryland i know we have a real problem with overcrowding in prisons uh  
just  
yeah  
but i mean in  
here it's uh to the point where they were letting prisoners go   uh commuting the sentences of those that were in in jail for lesser crimes   in order to put more people in into the jails  
and it was just uh amazing to me  
and of course they made a big deal out of the the few that got out and turned around and committed a crime within five days of getting out   and being [rearrested] an  
uh i can't remember  
[refresh] my memory  
um i don't remember myself  
um i think if they if they started executing them on a regular basis uh that i think it might make a difference  
right now   i don't see it making a difference  
i don't see someone not going out there and committing murder because they're afraid they're going to get sentenced to death  
i mean   most people out there committing murders don't care  
they just don't care  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and there's uh there's a lot of people here in baltimore that uh have  
and we just had uh a real big cocaine bust  
and of course you know they're they're playing it up real big that it was looked like it was a very very small ring  
and they just happened to get lucky and catch the guy  
but i mean uh baltimore has uh an all time record for the number of deaths so far this year  
i think they've got over a hundred dead already this year  
well it's kind of it's kind of moved up  
and you have to remember that it it it uh there's i think x number of people out there that are going to commit murders  
and uh once you kill off a few of them  
i mean if you murder a guy because he murdered your partner or something like that i mean pretty soon you run out of people to murder  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know it makes sense um you know  
you have the occasional person who may have been falsely accused but i mean uh so few and far between uh you know  
makes good t v movies  
and that's about it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i had  
my uh my father in law participated in a uh a jury trial  
he was he was actually on the jury  
and uh this man was accused of killing uh i think it was two people uh and shooting a uh policeman um point blank in the face  
of course he didn't die  
and uh this was during a [holdup] of a uh uh a restaurant  
and it came out during the trial that um they had tried to rob another place  
and uh when the guy came out with the bag they thought was money it turned out to be a couple cookies and uh you know jumbo cookies  
and and so they were so upset from robbing this guy you know trying to do this [holdup] that didn't work that they quite literally were mad and went into a restaurant to hold the place up and just started you know shooting people  
you know it's  
yeah  
yeah  
and get even with who  
i mean  
you know stupid guys  
and uh it turned out that the you know policeman survived to the point that he was able to you know identify the guy  
and of course you know they tried to make the cop look like he was uh a uh no good rotten drunk  
i mean it was amazing  
oh he was found guilty  
yeah  
he uh um  
last i heard he uh he beat a push for the death penalty  
now whether they finally got it or not i don't know  
i kind of uh stopped listening after a while  
um you know he would come home  
and and you know after the trial was over he came home and told us what was going on  
and of course then they had to go back to you know  
after he had to go  
right  
and uh yeah everybody everybody was pretty much you know let's burn him  
and that's you know that's the way they wanted to do it  
and he was surprised because he thought there was going to be a problem because he uh  
you know some people on the case were were a little hesitant on convicting him on some of the charges  
but i mean when it all came down they just within an hour decided the man's fate  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well it it it went pretty pretty quick from what he said  
but i mean there's there's there's a lot of other crimes out there i mean besides murder  
i think uh now if you're dealing drugs now   caught more than twice or something uh   it there's uh a death penalty associated with it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
i agree  
i i've i have uh a low tolerance for that kind of uh that kind of person  
and uh as far as uh you know  
there are some some other crimes that i think uh you know uh  
kidnapping um you know when they  
i mean kidnapping per se has a certain uh uh fine and penalty associated with it  
but um some of these people are just out and out brutal  
i  
some of the cases i've heard about over the years  
oh well what's there to say  
doesn't seem like it's being carried out very well in my opinion  
seems like it takes so long between conviction and carrying out the penalty that i don't see that it makes any difference to sentence anybody  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well from what i  
i saw a statistic just a few days ago um so far this year or was it during the last year during a years time i think it was they executed twenty five people in the nation  
meanwhile there were twenty five hundred people on death row  
so i i  
and it's building up you know  
they're they're convicting them faster than they're executing them  
so it's really building up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
everybody's got that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
isn't isn't maryland where the famous [willy] [horton] case was  
it was uh that was the one that was used so much in the campaign in the in the presidential race  
uh may it may not have been maryland  
it may have been massachusetts  
i don't remember  
anyway well the question is you know do you think it does make a difference in whether or not a criminal commits a crime  
or do you think it can if it's done right  
if it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think in large measure the reason they don't care  
it's not because the punishment  
but so many of the people that commit crimes don't get punished  
the police don't catch them  
or the courts don't convict them  
or or they don't serve very much of the time  
and so uh you know their their success rate is very high  
crime does pay  
you can make a good living at it  
yeah  
last year it was d c  
i guess baltimore caught them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
the only [consolation] is so many of the murders are you know  
the the violent people going against each other  
and so they you know  
society's not going to put them to death  
well at least maybe the guy they cross next time is going to uh  
i think i think capital punishment is an appropriate punishment for the kind of people where we say you know this sort of person is just not acceptable to our society  
and we are there by going to remove them from society not temporarily but permanently  
i mean i i personally think life imprisonment  
i don't think much of of life imprisonment first of all it's never turns out to be life  
but second you know why should we  
the idea of life imprisonment with no chance of parole  
well that means you're going to put them in a cage you think it's never ever going to be safe for them to walk the streets again  
well then why bother  
just execute them because that's that way you're sure they'll never ever going to walk the streets again  
so any any anybody that says life in prison with no chance of parole i'd say uh give them the death penalty  
so  
yeah  
and and also um the the thing i don't like about a lot of these court trials and a lot of these appeals is that it's not based on what is true and what is false  
but rather it's on the rules of evidence what can i hide and what do i have to tell  
and i think our courts should be geared much more strongly towards finding out the truth than they currently are  
and and that way we can be sure you know  
we can find out the truth  
we can find out what really happened and and base the sentence on what the person did not on what we're allowed to let the jury hear  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just started shooting people   because they [botched] the first job  
and   so now they're going to get even  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so what was the verdict  
what was the results there  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the the penalty phase  
yeah  
they've decide the penalty separately from the verdict  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know you just have to decide you know  
well there's really two separate decisions there i guess  
one is did it really happen the way the the prosecutor said it happened you know  
is this man really guilty  
and you have to decide that  
but then you have to decide you know as a member of society what do i want to do with this guy who did this thing  
and that  
i i've never been on a jury  
i've never had that experience  
i'm not sure i'd look forward to making that kind of decision about a man's life  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well the thing i'd be most likely to attach the death penalty to is the violence  
i mean  
i can handle people people selling drugs you know  
it's it's wrong  
but it it's not worth somebody getting executed for  
but we hear so much about the violence and how it's not safe to walk the streets because somebody you know these random drive by shootings and that sort of thing  
and the people i'd most likely want to sentence to death are the people that just show a really low regard for human life  
that you know  
you never know when they're going to turn or hurt the next person because it doesn't really matter to them whether someone else gets hurt or not  
and so i go  
these are the kind of people i would like to get out of here and get out of circulation and say i don't we don't accept your kind in our society  
uh_huh  
what's the uh  
in texas law has a uh what does it have it has a death penalty doesn't it  
but now it's coming back into favor  
well my sociology class at s m [u's] taught us that it was not a deterrent  
uh but now that's just what they said  
uh i don't know maybe maybe if i went back and took a sociology class now they'd say it is a deterrent  
maybe they've changed their minds  
maybe that's it  
maybe that's it  
because that was back in the seventies  
i think  
i agree  
but i think it ought to be expanded to include children  
i i think they're they have they're working on uh something in austin now  
and i'm not sure what it is  
i just remember seeing a uh kind of a synopsis of it  
well uh i'm i'm personally very in favor of it  
uh why should we let them set in prison and work on their college degrees after they've mowed down a class yard full of kids or or tried to or done their very you know given their best effort at doing that  
i i don't care to support them  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and then   there was the black woman that uh robbed and shot the [furrier]  
and she was set free too just in two examples in texas recently  
but she actually killed the [furrier] or someone  
she was charged with murder  
and then then they decided it was a case of mistaken identity or something  
i didn't i don't i didn't retain all those facts very well  
but i know what you're  
what if we make a mistake  
and that's not one of those things that you can turn the wheel back and reverse everything  
well   well i guess though where i would have a problem with it if i were on the jury that that put that handed down the death sentence because it was my [judgement] the person's guilty  
now that's tougher  
it's easier to say it on the telephone  
and everyone agree that yeah the death [penalty's] the way to go  
it's a deterrent to crime  
they shouldn't catch themselves in that circumstance anyway  
but to be the actual one of the ones that decide that would be tougher for me  
i think i'd probably do it  
but we could never say what we would do if we're not in the circumstance  
it that's that's that's a real easy thing to say that oh sure i would  
but i don't know  
well yes  
but you know that's what they did  
or rather than have a warped mind it was just the only way to get whatever they wanted  
and they they wanted something worse than they more than they respect the human life  
hang them  
yeah  
i agree it should be in effect  
also i agree there should be a lot of care in the enforcement uh  
so i guess i would say i want it to be in effect  
but i want maybe  
well i'd i now i have a problem with this too  
i think our courts have too many opportunities for them to go back and get one more chance  
that's correct  
it is  
it is  
now there's some  
and maybe now i don't remember if this is texas or not that has something about all drug dealers can be sentenced to the death sentence  
convicted drug dealers  
is it what is what's the  
it's something of the they're on the distribution end  
they're not selling them  
they're distributing them  
it's for the large dealers is what   it's reserved for  
and they they are in effect killing people  
oh okay  
is that how it's worded  
i knew it was there  
but i i  
or or is it proposed  
or is it passed  
i believe it is  
i believe you're right though  
i think it is  
and i have to agree with that  
i i think it certainly should be one of the options  
uh i've been fortunate with my children and grandchildren so far that i know  
i qualify that heavily  
because you never know  
but to the best of my knowledge we haven't had a major problem yet  
but it just touches so many young people   um   well my children are about in the same age bracket  
i think let's see the oldest is thirty two  
and the youngest is probably twenty seven twenty eight  
so it's the same age bracket  
and there's four two girls and two boys  
and i think one of each experimented very slightly with pot  
and i think that was the extent of it to the best of my knowledge  
boy  
that's tough  
my husband hasn't quit yet  
and he knows he has to  
and he knows he should  
and he knows  
and he knows  
but he hasn't  
i do respect the fact though that he refuses to smoke in the same room with me  
he he's very conscious of of passive smoking  
and he's concerned about it but   hasn't quite made it yet  
yeah  
i've seen all of this  
yeah  
well charles will actually charles will not smoke in anyone else's house except our own  
he will get up  
and he'll go outside you know  
and he he's  
so when we're invited to people's house he will not smoke in their house which i think is good because there's a lot of people that are very  
particularly if they have children  
but uh and he's you know he tries his best  
but the actual quitting he hasn't done  
he changed brands to a brand he doesn't like  
he put up all of his ash trays  
he will not smoke in a comfortable position you know  
but   still he's done everything the smokers anonymous tell you to do except quit smoking  
it's a   long process  
oh how neat  
he has his in the kitchen  
oh yes  
yeah  
they just uh started it again too just late or within the past few years  
you know for quite some time just about every one of the states had given up the death penalty  
uh yes  
well they find it is more deterrent  
well uh if you   you know compare the figures i think that's where they're uh they're coming from  
the uh  
oh there yes they are  
that was before the uh uh they adopted the death law again  
but uh i i myself am in favor of it uh particularly for uh well i think texas has a good good law uh crimes murders related with uh drugs or killing a policemen  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well why stop at children  
why not go to adults too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
well i don't either  
but uh uh but there is something to be said about  
or uh uh just for the sake of argument i'm taking the   a con  
i'm i'm against it  
uh you know yourself how many times have you heard where uh uh a citizen was wrongfully arrested   and served time at a [penitentiary] uh  
just recently this uh black man served nine years was it   for robbery  
uh_huh  
that's it  
uh_huh  
well right now our laws are so liberal that uh even with the death penalty in effect i don't think that uh they're going to use it uh too frequently uh unfortunately  
i like you say yes  
let's have it   put them all give them all a shot get rid of them  
why should they be sitting in uh prison getting their college degree  
uh_huh  
yes  
very true  
i uh i agree with you there  
uh   uh_huh  
well i myself wouldn't want to be on the jury like that  
uh i it it's uh that's an awful lot to uh to expect of a person to uh to kill somebody is what it amounts to  
it  
true  
very true  
but they they did it because they have a warped mind for some reason  
yeah  
well uh   uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
well anyhow i guess we both agree that   that it is   it should be in effect  
oh that's true  
well now any uh just believe in just about any state in the union uh uh a death uh or uh yeah death verdict is an automatic uh appeal  
and uh uh yes  
i'm inclined to agree with you  
i think so  
there should be a limit as to the number of appeals  
um um well   not just for dealing in drugs  
it uh  
there are certain circumstances  
and i don't remember what they are  
uh yes  
uh_huh  
oh oh yes  
yes  
i i believe it's any capital crime related to drugs  
i think that's the way it's worded  
i do believe that's in  
uh i wouldn't swear to it myself  
but i thought it i thought it was in effect  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh it does  
uh i have four sons myself  
and the youngest is twenty eight  
so they are all pretty well grown up  
and they all went through it you know going through high school and everything  
and knock wood that uh they have not  
well i won't say they didn't try it uh  
i wouldn't know  
but uh they  
i doubt very much that they're they're using it now  
in fact i'm sure they don't  
huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's usually the way it is  
it it's just uh try it out with their peers  
and none of them even smoke  
they don't uh  
they never  
strangely enough uh their mother and i both smoked when they were growing up  
now my my my wife my ex wife she quit uh well when she was pregnant with the last one  
and she never started up again  
and i just quit oh about fourteen months and two weeks ago  
yes  
it is  
i  
and it seems to be getting tougher as time goes by  
um  
well   well when i was still smoking i i felt that way  
if i was in a public restaurant seated at table with uh non smokers i would try to pick a a a my seat where the smoke would blow away from them  
or i'd hold the cigarette under the table  
and uh but uh now i'm on the [shoe's] on the other foot  
uh i'm aware of other people smoking now  
um  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh uh_huh  
well the   there's a trick i use  
they used to leave my cigarettes in the glove [compartment]  
and every time i wanted one i have to go outside and just take one one at a time  
and uh that that's gets to be uh a deterrent  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh i believe in it too  
i'm catholic  
and we're not supposed to  
but uh i feel that it  
like you  
you know on the premeditated murders i feel if you're you know i mean if it's beyond a doubt that you did it you know   i would say go ahead and execute that person as well  
but it's the cases you know like sometimes you you know you hear of people that they say they went to jail falsely you know  
they really didn't do it  
well you know you you got you got that point well you know what what if a mistake is made and you put someone you know to death that really didn't do it  
there's always that chance  
i don't know  
but i would say that you know for that many people to all of them agree that you did it and it was premeditated it would be kind of hard for you know  
you know what i'm saying  
like  
yeah  
so uh i  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh i'm not sure about pennsylvania whether we have it or not  
for some reason i was thinking that we do  
but it's you know it's not very often  
i think maybe last year was the first time in like eighteen years or something like that that anyone   anyone from pennsylvania had gotten it  
i don't  
do you know if virginia has it  
uh_huh  
i know florida has it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh you know  
yeah  
but it's funny that uh  
i mean like you know like i said i think last year was the first time in like eighteen years for pennsylvania  
i'm not even sure of that  
but for some reason i think that you know it was something like that  
and it surprised  
and even florida i know they have it  
and you don't really hear about it real often how many people  
yeah  
but you you think that  
i mean if you think of how many premeditated murders are committed   you know compared to that and to how many people are being sent that doesn't seem like very many  
yeah  
everyone would appeal  
that's true too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and then they get out  
yeah  
they get out in three years on probation  
and they do it again you know  
it's like a slap on the fingers for them  
i don't i don't i don't  
i think that it should be  
i mean if it's beyond a doubt that someone did [premeditate] someone a murder then i think you know that they should likewise you know someone should take their life also  
but uh but are are you would you draw the line there with just the premeditated murder  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think some of them would rather be in jail  
yeah  
they probably have it better in jail than what they would out in the streets  
i don't know uh  
i was just going to say something  
i forgot what it was  
oh i don't even remember what it was now  
in clarion  
well i live in butler  
but i'm at i'm at college  
i'm at clarion university  
yeah  
uh_huh  
see yeah  
okay  
well see i'm i'm in kind i'm in kind  
okay uh  
we only have seven thousand students in the entire campus  
yeah  
and that would be pushing it  
so i mean this is definitely a college town  
uh we're about two hours north of pittsburgh if that would help you out any uh  
north of pittsburgh pennsylvania  
oh i've never heard of polk  
but  
oh i never heard of that  
it might have a new name  
yeah  
yeah  
we're probably about an hour away from sharon  
uh_huh  
uh so i  
most of the kids here i you know  
like you know just from dorm mates and stuff they'll say that they don't believe in it  
but then after i would say my point of view then they'll say well yeah  
you know you know  
yeah  
you know i think people can be persuaded one way or another  
i've never seriously ran into someone i mean like other than my priest you know who definitely says you can't take a you know you can't take anyone's life  
uh anyone that is like so against it that you couldn't persuade them in any instance  
uh_huh  

yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you know i look at that and say well they should have thought about that beforehand   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's something you know  
but uh whether they plea bargain or not if they're guilty of murder they're guilty of murder you know  
so i don't think that they deserve anything less  
it's just  
i don't i don't know  
i just  
uh_huh  
and that costs money yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
well uh anyways i'm not exactly sure  
i i wasn't really uh paying attention as to what particular uh parts of capital punishment we're supposed to talk about  
but it was uh basically what's your views on whether you thought there was certain cases that should be used that sort of thing  
right  
and uh i don't know  
i've i've always thought that any uh crime that uh that uh intentionally where someone goes out and [premeditatively] takes another life would be the ones where i think that capital punishment would be necessary to keep that person from perhaps uh doing it again and even more so to get people on the outside who are professionals to realize that you know there's a a very steep penalty to uh be paid   when that's done  
and uh yeah  
how do you feel about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
right  
if if the evidence wasn't overwhelming right  
uh_huh  
well i think that should be likewise decided by the jury you know because i don't know i think a jury would be less likely to just send a man to death just for any reason  
i don't know a judge might be a little more cold blooded about it  
yeah  
i don't think we  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
we don't  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
they're always in florida  
florida and louisiana i think and uh some of the   other southern states  
course they have such a crime problem because they have such a unemployment rate  
get that unemployment way up  
so then people you know tend towards crime  
and then they they start [stiffening] the penalties  
well in florida seems like uh two or three times a year  
it's constantly on the  
yeah  
no  
that's true  
course they have a requirement that uh that every single appeal must be permitted  
so of course the the attorneys   take them through the whole chain   you know even if the case is open and closed  
they go all the way up to the supreme court you know  
they almost always get thrown right back out again  
but they have to have every single appeal made open to them  
and you know it's sort of strange because it almost it almost seems like the attorneys are doing it for the money or something because i mean the guy knows that whether it's you know a a month or two or six years he's still going to get you know the chair when it comes around   you know  
some of these guys are really uh you know violent son of sam killers and stuff like that you know  
i mean they  
everyone knows they're going get not going to get out  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think so  
uh a lot of the the the other violent crimes i don't really feel that strongly about  
although you know [stiffer] sentences and [lessening] the effects of parole  
i mean these guys are certainly not going to uh be  
they can't  
i mean they're getting into drugs and fights and all that stuff in prison  
i don't think the parole system is really helping that much  
reduce the violence in the prisons  
i think that's its only purpose   is is you know to reduce uh the violence in the prisons so people behave themselves a little bit better if they think they're going to get off early   off earlier  
but some of these guys just don't care   you know  
and so uh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
um that's possible i guess  
um so where do you live in pennsylvania  
oh okay  
i don't think i really know that  
because uh you know  
that all depends too on where you are at  
that's uh sort of interesting to get opinions as to where different parts of the country are because the more grass root country uh parts of the country tend to to support capital punishment where the places that are you know less in contact with crime   you know the the more more urban i mean less  
uh_huh  
two hours where  
oh okay  
near polk  
polk institute  
it's uh an old uh university that turned into a place for the mentally retarded uh  
very old uh historical place there  
sharon [pennsylvania's] up there  
yeah  
oh okay  
in that case maybe you know  
right  
that's true  
yeah  
well it it you know  
you get certain circumstances where you hear about these people that have you know stolen kids and you know   done terrible things to them and killed them and you know that sort of thing  
you just  
like i don't want that person sharing the earth with me you know  
i mean that is just   terrible  
and uh you know we had a case like that here  
and on the other hand you know people are saying that because the he knows because the criminals know that the uh penalties can be very severe  
they uh  
there's less criminals that are you know turning themselves in or you know pleading or whatever because they know that the judge you know if they find them guilty is you know has the the opportunity to sentence them you know for for the death sentence  
yeah  
well i'm just saying that that that's what the the client lawyers are saying  
they're saying that you know you know more of my clients would have [pleaded] guilty if they would have gotten a light sentence instead of possibly having to to to get a death sentence because you can't plea bargain   what the sentence is going to be  
you can plea bargain what you're guilty of but you know   but not how they're going to sentence you  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
i was just saying that way  
what they're saying is that they can't get people to turn themselves in then  
and so we have to go through a trial then to prove the person's guilty  
and perhaps we can  
and perhaps we can't  
and so the guy might get off  
and uh although usually the guys that are turning themselves in are are guys that are you know going to get caught anyways  
but  
there's always a few of those people that are you know lost their head or whatever  
anyways but uh yeah  
we just had a terrible case in virginia where some girl disappeared  
and and the guy like i said he just uh said that he took her  
but he won't admit that she died or whatever  
and he won't say where the body is because he knows the [penalty's] very you know mandatory life sentences for murder  
okay  
there's one uh  
i meant living in texas  
where you at  
in where rome new york  
rome new york  
okay well texas  
let me look at my husband and ask him  
yes  
they do  
he's reminding me of where i live  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
i uh i ethically don't like the idea  
but or i should say morally i don't like the idea  
but uh social and ethics socially and ethically i think it's a good idea in certain crimes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
any   on the street  
no  
i know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and texas is having a problem right now  
and it's the the the the the i think that's the the repeat crimes and the repeat offenders is happening down here where they're they're patrol the state patrol board is letting people walk that have done oh heinous things from from killing police officers to i mean just multiple you know [molestations] to murders of children just you know really bad things  
and they're get these people are getting out like three to five years before they're even suppose to be considered  
and now they can't find them  
and they're finding bodies in you know  
i mean you think why they say it's because you're over crowd it's over crowded  
and you think how is is everybody that stupid  
or is the world really that rotten  
i know  
and then  
i don't know how americans are about handguns  
but uh yesterday a lady i work with just told me today that uh in the state capitol here in austin texas they had been uh looking at a bill uh making it easier to accept the bill to access to access handguns  
and they passed it which basically means without an f b i check any person here in this state over twenty one can get a gun  
is it  
that's good  
say that good  
i think that's like the state of virginia  
yeah  
that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
they're no  
the [cattiness] behind  
right  
yeah  
i mean i don't like guns in general  
but when i think about uh this topic like capital punishment i look at somebody i mean i just remember when i was in college in a dorm  
and i think if he'd been around one of my family members probably would have killed him  
but in florida in the state of washington when they had the ted bundy case  
and how they just  
well it hasn't been just  
but it was in the i think the second or third quarter of last year nineteen ninety  
and i had you know i knew some people that said why are you glad  
you you know  
this is nothing  
and i said just maybe because he got a lot of media hype and all that  
but i actually i mean there should be more cases like that where they flip a i might be too cold too but they flip a switch  
i don't know  
i mean  
so many times  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean and that's just maybe because of the little more they said celebrated that uh  
he's not the only one   you know  
you you see somebody's mini series  
and you hear about somebody's crime  
there was something on  
and this gets back to capital punishment  
but the man had stolen uh not stolen but kidnapped uh some wealthy ex [athlete's] daughter somewhere in florida  
and they changed all the facts that they said it was true  
and they buried her alive  
and peter strauss had played the lead role  
and the man and and at the end of you know how they have these mini dramas at the end they said this set person was paroled like six months ago  
and you're thinking oh that's nice  
i mean you know i'm not sure that capital punishment serves as a [deterrence]  
but it does serve as a uh definite   you know   lasting  
right  
in that particular instance uh  
but i but i don't but i know it's on a  
and all and be all  
that's the problem i have with it  
in texas they think it's  
and all and be all  
they think that if they [electrocute] or slip or do something or gas somebody uh that they're not going to have the crimes that they do have  
and we happen to live in dallas which is extremely crime   ridden  
and we just moved here uh  
we've been here before lived in minneapolis saint paul uh which has an exceedingly low crime rate  
and then we were transferred back here  
and when you're gone from some place like it for about six years as we were you really begin to see uh just how [problematic] just living is   even suburban no matter where you are  
and how  
you're in   rome new york  
is that  
and and is that like near albany or syracuse  
what what type of area is that  
is that in term  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
how would   how is the situation in there in terms of crime and   and things that would  
not too bad  
yeah  
uh_huh  
not the harsh [criminality]   that you find in  
yeah  
now dallas is a  
i'm being very sarcastic  
it's just a great   uh  
on some days uh it's uh i don't know  
the good ole boy network here is uh very strange like i said  
they believe that if they kill somebody you know [tit] for [tat] and   deed for deed that   that does something uh  
but yet they want spend the money to build the new jails that  
i mean they really are over   crowded  
i mean that's that's just not a cop out uh  
and i just you know i'm originally from pennsylvania which i think is basically like new york these days  
i'm not sure if they i don't think they have capital punishment there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i'm from pittsburgh  
so   oh well we'll forgive each other  
uh because they use to be very very conservative when i was growing up  
i and i can't i haven't lived there in twenty   years  
but uh  
there you go  
i don't know  
that's a different subject   altogether  
but uh i don't know  
i think everybody would feel it is same way if they were touched by crime  
i think everyone would  
you and i think are honest and [candid] because we could do it on in this   vehicle uh  
but i think everybody if they were touched by it would say if they had any sense of rage that could be brought out   i think every human does i think they'd say yeah  
do it if somebody in my family or if it happened it me you know  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i just   don't think that uh you can rehabilitate  
i mean i just don't uh-oh  
i did a paper back in college a long time ago for criminal justice class  
and i just  
the subject  
i remember we drew things out of a hat  
and it was something uh it was basically the essence was does the crime fit the punishment  
and when you see how many repeat offenders there are uh check check fraud cases where they go to jail for five to ten years and uh rape rapist getting their hand   just slapped you know and how it is based on the judge and if the time of day that the court is in session   you know all these uh [intangible] things  
and you're thinking oh you would not only would you not want to be a victim  
you wouldn't want to be a criminal either   because you wouldn't know what you're getting uh  
but i don't know  
methods of capital punishment i have no opinions on that either  
i just  
uh_huh  
is it uh  
how about the injection  
is that suppose to be  
yeah  
i'm not even sure in the split among the fifty states  
do you know which way it is the ratio  
it's more than  
aren't uh  
it's more that don't have it  
isn't that correct  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know if they've they did something about  
i'm not sure if texas  
minnesota  
i they didn't they didn't they were  
well did they have it  
they were against it uh  
texas as i said has it  
but i haven't been back here long enough to to realize whether or not   if they've done it in the last  
i'm in rome new york  
rome new york  
yeah  
yeah  
i i  
new york does not  
but uh they're they're trying to [reinstate] it  
and the [governor's] opposed to it being that uh the democrat that he is   and mario cuomo  
but the state legislatures are more and more coming to supporting it  
i'd i would agree with that even more  
i don't know if this is cold and too [pragmatically]  
but i'm really offended   by the thought that i have to support   uh just the existence of you know murder rapist   you know   right that uh after they've gone and done horrible things [molested] children and kill   them whatever that society has to pay uh [upwards] uh thirty thousand dollars a year to [incarcerate] them  
right  
i i don't know  
it's a hard question  
you look at the united states  
we have the largest murder rate of any developed uh  
or uh  
here in new york it's a lot harder than that uh  
it takes uh it takes almost six months to get uh handgun permit in this state  
now the the  
and that's with uh  
you have to have uh-oh a police investigation  
you have to   have references  
and i know because a friend of mine wanted to get one and listed me as a reference   uh  
and i know it  
there is it's very easy to get uh uh you know  
there's no restrictions whatsoever on hunting rifles and shotguns and things like that   which aren't the i i don't consider to be the kind of crime uh   weapon you know  
uh so  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well   and the thing with bundy was though he escaped  
and then  
yeah  
and did it again  
and uh  
no  
uh_huh  
oh god  
great  
surely   there's and end to   the situation  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
rome new york  
it's up state  
it   it's uh near syracuse  
it's about uh  
well i i actually live in a village of [sylvan] beach  
i work in rome uh  
it's more rural  
uh it use to be   use to be a uh uh have a lot of heavy industry  
but it's kind of uh  
all the industry has gone south  
and uh now the air force is the largest employer in the uh area  
and uh uh   so it's   not too bad  
it you know   you still have the uh more drug problems and typical   uh small city type problems  
but i don't know that there's a real uh  
no  
there isn't the harsh crime and all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i think i think pennsylvania may have just [reenacted] it  
because i'm from uh   from pennsylvania also just uh just outside   of philadelphia  
yeah  
right  
the west part of the state is  
and then the east part of the state has got all the bleeding hearts and all the welfare cases  
so  
right  
right  
sure  
yeah  
if your friends or family got uh had that happen to them i think everyone would  
i they'd   probably pull the trigger themselves or flip the switch themselves and with a smile on their face   as they did it  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
well uh i uh yeah  
i don't know  
i think the old gas chamber seems to be about the most painless  
because i guess it's a pretty   pretty rough thing to be uh [electrocuted]  
oh yeah  
an injection  
yeah  
that would be even  
yeah  
i didn't even   think about that  
i think  
yeah  
there's more that don't have it  
but amazingly it's like uh massachusetts went back   and reinstated capital punishment oh maybe six or seven years ago  
i don't know if they've used it since then since they've reinstated it  
but uh it's on the books  
right  
okay  
well what's your opinion about capital punishment  
right  
i think i would agree with you on that too  
i i can't see any point in keeping someone who's obviously beyond any kind of rehabilitation uh keeping them you know paying for them to live in prison for years and years and years when you could probably just eliminate the problem  
maybe spend the money on someone who could possibly be helped  
right  
uh_huh  
beyond murder or just beyond like first degree murder  
yeah  
yeah  
well that really gets into a sticky issue  
uh i could see that too  
i think there's probably things i could think of short of murder that someone i think someone would probably deserve to be killed for  
but gosh  
and who's going to decide which is how bad you know  
something that to you is really bad might not be quite so bad to me  
and uh it's gets into a pretty sticky issue  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
in some eyes  
i think some people give up that  
i think some of what we consider rights are really more privileges than than what most people think of them as  
i don't know what um texas's criteria for capital murder is do capital punishment is  
do you know  
are there some set guidelines like only under these circumstances  
uh_huh  
i used to live in virginia  
and i know when they first reinstated capital punishment it was only um if someone killed a police officer or someone committed rape and then murder  
those were the only two circumstances where you could give someone the death penalty which i think is a little too limited  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
in general terms i'm not so harsh  
but then whenever i hear of a specific case you know where someone did something then it's like yeah put it to them  
so i think i probably tend to be a little bit harsh too as far as that goes  
because  
yeah  
i think you're right  
that person voluntarily gives up when they decide to commit that crime  
they voluntarily give up their right to continue on with their happy life  
just you know  
they ruin someone else's life  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
he didn't go out with the intent of hurting someone else   or with no regard for someone else's well being  
what about uh like teenagers that get involved in a gang and do a drive by shooting or something like that say fifteen sixteen year old  
would you consider uh capital punishment for them  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
what age they're accountable   for their actions  
yeah  
i know that they are lowering the age of uh whatever is considered a minor  
i think the kids certain kids have been tried as adults who were a lot younger than they used to be  
like  
i think i read about a boy that was nine or ten that got mad at some [playmates] and went in and got a gun and just opened fire on them  
and they were trying to charge him as a  
well cathy i think that uh capital punishment certainly has a place in our society um maybe from the sense that there are some things that we just can't afford to have repeated even in the remote chance of [repetition]  
that might be true  
um i'm  
what i don't know is where do we draw the line  
uh do we say that every one who commits murder in the first degree is liable for capital punishment if that's what the jury decides is an appropriate punishment for their crime  
or do we extend it beyond that  
well either you know  
uh i have a a nine year old daughter  
and there are some crimes that could be committed against her that are not even considered capital crimes that that i would consider basis for murder  
yes  
it does  
a lot of that has to do with the cultures that we grew up in and what's [termed] acceptable and um to what's [allowable] and where are we  
uh you know if we were lived in a different country then murder is not so bad  
but over here where we're promised the civil liberties of life liberty and pursuit of [happiness] then taking that away is a a heinous act  
i don't know  
i believe it's uh at the [discretion] of the judge or jury  
i tend to agree with you there  
um my belief is that is that um any crime that's [freely] committed you know  
freedom of choice  
these people had a choice of committing this crime that involves the taking of [another's] life or the [altering] of someone's life   such as rape deserves punishment by death  
but then i'm also told that i'm a pretty harsh person  
all right  
i can see a difference between a person who goes out to rob a store for food   than a person who commits a crime to either for the thrill of committing the crime or the thrill the feeling of power that they get from it or to acquire drugs for some other i mean acquire funds for some other illegal activity  
you know that second group of people falls into the group that i say give up their rights  
the the first guy you know i just assumed it was a guy the first person   that went out to rob a store for food that to me is is a different set of circumstances where he he deserves help instead of uh loss of life  
that's right  
or with the  
i think i would probably lower the age to about fourteen  
there's some  
and i i certainly don't know myself  
but somebody needs to do a study that says at what age true and complete logical thought to include the the consideration of of long term consequences   begins  
you know   i have an eighteen year old  
and uh well he's nineteen now  
and i don't think that i saw it in him until maybe last year  
and i have an eleven year old and a nine year old  
and i don't don't see it in them yet  
but i'm i'm not sure where it begins  
okay  
well i'll start off being controversial  
i'm in favor of it  
well it seems to be in the current situations  
but uh i still feel that it could be a deterrent to crime particularly with the increase of serious crime that's going on now  
okay  
yeah  
i think uh  
oh definitely  
any any crimes against person   uh i feel uh there should be more than a slap on the hand   and being sent to prison and being released in uh two or three years  
oh yeah  
that's a  
i don't see a thing wrong with that  
i believe that uh   well it's just an an example  
i think there's uh someone that's on trial right now   here in the dallas area  
and they were interviewing the the  
a young lady was killed sometime back   a young girl   a personal trial and the reporter was asking a stupid question of the people outside  
well how do you feel about this  
and you know   how do they feel about it i'm sure that uh they want it over with  
and they want the person punished and punished   properly  
yes  
yeah  
well   i feel like the the cost of someone who's [quoting] figures made the cost   at like thirty thousand dollars   a year   to keep someone in prison  
and well the problem there is they're not keeping the right ones in prison in many cases  
there are more   and more instances being on the news  
or this individual was out on the streets   on probation or parole and killed someone else   or   seriously injured someone  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
indeed  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
here again anytime anyone goes out with a gun in their hand and crime on their mind   uh the opportunity exists for someone to get killed  
now i'm not in favor of gun control to the degree or anything because uh there are uses for guns which are [noncriminal]  
but it seems that the criminal element are the ones that are using them uh aside from domestic disputes husbands shooting wives or vice versa  
but these individuals if they have a gun with them i think that the the sentence should be even longer than if they don't  
well   well but here again uh if a matter of expediency   part of these costs like the people on death row   is that their appeals can take years and years  
there should be some uh  
i know there's a law i believe that it's automatic appeal if it's a death sentence  
well i think that automatic appeal ought to take place uh within a reasonable length of time say six months  
and a decision be made and not drag out in the courts for years   because of [misplaced] [commas] or whatever technicalities   there might be  
right  
there's got to be a   there's got to be a time limit  
a a [legit]   legitimate appeal   not a technicality   of uh   if and they're not arguing that the guy or woman committed the crime  
they're arguing over well were his civil rights violated because uh   someone didn't file the proper paper at the proper time  
those are the things that have caused them to drag out i think  
yeah  
he didn't see his   lawyer as quickly as he should have   or some   some mickey mouse type thing like that  
oh yes  
yes  
no  
i'm not a lawyer  
i  
i'm an accountant  
and i agree  
we practice law ourselves because it's too expensive to hire lawyers   to a degree  
there you go  
well it's it's a case that we have a a legal system which the criminals have found a way to use and a way to benefit them rather than the public itself  
so   that's how we get caught in this uh   sort of a catch twenty two  
but you have to continue uh to protect the innocent you're giving an open door to the guilty  
yeah  
yes   it does   most people  
again one of our   one of our problems is that uh our legislature and the state and our national congress the majority of the members [thereof] are lawyers  
that doesn't necessarily mean you're controversial  
well i think that those crimes which are punishable by the death sentence need to be reevaluated  
i think there are other crimes that could easily draw the death penalty and not make me feel bad at all  
crimes against children is one of them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
actually i would like to see the system [revert] a lot back to some of the forms of punishment that exist in middle eastern countries  
if you steal you lose a hand  
you know uh if you kill you lose your life  
what's wrong with that  
yeah  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
deciding what that proper punishment is is one thing  
i think that there should be no way i i realize that innocent people could go to uh what is it lethal injection now  
innocent people could do that  
but for every innocent person who would be executed hopefully there would be ten guilty  
uh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to maintain a prison  
that's right  
that's stupid  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
well i don't have solutions to the problems  
but you know you have these  
this would be nice if  
and there's probably thousands of holes in that theory  
but i think that if you did something for example to an individual and caused them to lose the ability to earn a living i remember a man drove by randomly shot a women in the head while she was driving   [blinded] her  
i think then that a life sentence to [restitution] is appropriate  
i think he should spend the rest of his life working to support that individual   or the family of an individual   uh who has been harmed you you you know  
people who kill policemen  
policemen who are killed in the line of duty   they may or may not have been [willfully] intending to kill that policeman but that family still has no provider   and i  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't i don't agree with the length   of the sentence though  
i think expediency is the answer  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
technical  
i think that there should be a [statute] of limitations on appeals  

you can appeal it once  
i think if it is appealed one time and the appeal is turned down or the sentence stands then you might be allowed one more appeal if it is if if it is   [contradictory]  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
well one of the sad things is that so many of these never actually come to trial because of of the process in which the criminals were [apprehended]  
i mean uh you know the guy is guilty  
you know he's done what he's done  
you you may have stood there and seen it  
but because he wasn't read his rights whenever he was arrested you know   he he goes free  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
and i realize that that is designed to protect the innocent  
it's also designed to line the pockets of lawyers  
and uh i i just don't think that  
i think we could get along a lot better in our criminal justice system if we had some [statute] of limitations on lawyers  
i hope you're not a lawyer  
yeah  
absolutely  
that's why you check books out from the library  
but i really believe that our justice system is is the best around  
but it's not perfect  
and that doesn't mean that you leave it in tact  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
and and it  
i don't know there just seems to be so many clever ways to avoid the real intent of the law by following the letter  
and that just  
that really does [ruffle] my feathers   at times  
i mean i can just get so   aggravated about it  
but you know it's it's going to take smarter people than me to solve the problem  
and i hope   not lawyers  
do you have any personal feelings on on uh the subject  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so outrageous  
i know  
i know  
right  
well i i guess my concern is what we are reading especially in texas right now with them letting out the people out of jail as soon as they are out of prison when they do and having them go right back the day they get out back in crime   and especially when they are [assaulting]   people and then killing people i mean the man who   killed those three [sheriffs] [deputies] he is out free walking the street  
i have a real problem   with that  
i think so  
right  
right  
well   does not have the right   right  
right  
right  
and meanwhile the witnesses   move and die  
and   and they  
and there's no one to face them  
right  
right  
well   they can not get any if the judge is going to have any award to the victim it just puts off their collecting it  
it's   it's really bad  
it  
i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a time limit too  
do not let it  
drag on for fifteen years  
right  
right  
do you feel like there's any certain type of crime that this should be the results they should be consequences of capital punishment  
or or   are there some murders committed that you think leniency should be shown  
uh_huh  
okay  
right  
uh_huh  
and how do you feel about murders of law officers or fire people or something that are because they have had them they have had them killed when they have  
um um um  
uh   that was their goal  
oh  
that would be premeditated  
uh   they killed him  
uh uh uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
well that's right  
there's no reason   for murder  
i do not care if you are poor or if you are rich or if you are   ugly or what there that that's just beyond   the  
i think this giving excuses is pretty prevalent uh i work in the school district  
and the all these kids they have got an excuse for everything  
and i can see it continuing on when they are adults  
i just  
it's just a bad habit uh uh kids have got to learn from the time they are real little there's no excuse for for being bad or making bad choices deliberate or anything  
it's it's uh  
i i sometimes think if i were on a jury and had to make the decision could i  
and i like to think i could like you  
if if especially violent crime   where serial type killer or maybe a child has been deliberately killed  
right  
uh_huh  
well uh capital punishment is a hard thing  
but uh there's been several  
there have been several things that have happened where i felt like if i had been involved in it i would have had to to go along with with that being the punishment given to to the people  
there have been some things you know  
there's things done that are just  
yeah  
that i do not know how  
i do not really there's any other way to deal with it  
yeah  
i think that that that   that's a really  
yeah  
if it's a   if it's a clear and present danger i mean it  
but it's something that's really hard to deal with the way that our justice system is right now is basically set up in lawyers  
and and anybody   will tell you that uh it is set up right now all the laws protect the criminal  
they are the ones with the rights  
they have the right to uh you know  
i think i watched something last week uh i am sorry the accused has the right to a speedy trial  
but the victim does not have the right does not have the same   does not have the same the same emphasis on those things   as far as they are concerned  
so now the accused can can ask for delays and extensions  
and   what do they call  
whatever they call them you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
[continuance]  
they can get [continuances] on for years before the thing ever comes to trial  
and that makes the victim suffer   more  
the  
yeah  
that too  
um  
i think that uh you know that there needs to be a way that you know once someone has gone through you know a trial i do not know how to fix it  
i mean it just seems like there there should be a limit on how many appeals can be made  
you know when someone has been  

yeah  
when someone  
well even when someone has been convicted  
and i mean it's just so so [abundantly] clear that they did it  
but appealing you know and continuing to appeal like four or five or six times  
to have convictions overturned  
and then they have to be [retried] and all that  
it's such a waste of time and energy and money  
and it it just  
that's what keeps  
that's what is keeping all the the you know the criminals in a position of being able to be released all the time like this  
oh  
well i guess there's [extenuating] circumstances to anything like that uh you know  
like i i could see uh a first time offender being you know maybe in a in a robbery situation trying to hold up a store and getting scared and you know firing a gun and [accidently] killing someone  
okay i could see that that might be the situation where uh the person could be rehabilitated  
but i think just out and out murder and i am talking about uh cutting people up   you know where there's shown to be [pathological] tendencies where this person has done it over and over again in a serial fashion or whatever that those   kinds of things and any any kind of violent assault rape included   needs to addressed in in in that context  
well what bothers me  
that bothers me a great deal  
i had a friend who was a police officer who was killed in the line of duty  
and the thing that was the worst about it is that these that uh two of these individuals were well all of the individuals involved were very young  
one was technically a minor  
and so he was sent back to mexico   he was an illegal alien the other two had lived here they had graduated from high school here  
and they had told their teachers that i mean  
repeatedly during high school they had told their teachers that they were going to be that they were going to graduate from high school and kill cops  
that was what they had told their   teachers  
and so that's what they did  
and uh they were they were given i think  
oh absolutely  
he stopped them for routine traffic violation  
and they uh  
several several things happened that night  
but they they beat him up and took his gun and shot him   with it  
and it was it was really terrible  
i mean uh i had seen him like three or days before that  
he  
we had gone out uh with he and his wife  
and that was really really disturbing   you know that that happened  
and these people you know in the in the course of the trial you know came up with with all these you know things about well you know they were disadvantaged and all this stuff  
well nobody is that disadvantaged  
and there's just no i mean  
no  
yeah  
i think so too  
and that's uh  
so i i do feel strongly about  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
the thing that even though juries sometimes make the decision  
and still the people nothing ever happens to them  
you know they stay in jail they get off time for good behavior and all that stuff and they get released  
and they go right back and do it again  
well it's  
i am pretty much against it  
yeah  
how about you  
oh good  
we can have a debate  
well like um i don't know  
i think that i  
one of the reasons that i'm against it is that uh um i'm afraid of someone losing their life for um wrongly  
right  
and uh another reason  
one of the arguments that really i really actually have been kind of ambivalent about it but one of the arguments that really   uh made me feel kind of strongly against it is that uh you know someone said to me once well imagine if the person you love most in the world like your mother or something if someone killed her wouldn't you want to see them killed for the punishment  
but then i thought about it  
and i thought well the loss that i would feel at losing my mother   someone else would feel that about that person   no matter how rotten they were somebody loves them  
how about you  
yeah  
that's true  
uh hum  
right  
well you know   that's true because um a lot of um these conversations i've had on this program this   these telephone conversations have revolved around um criminal   you know justice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or whatever  
and most of the time i hear myself saying   well you know we don't have enough room left in the jails  
and people crime is still climbing  
and we need to have different punishments you know  
but i just am scared of capital punishment   i guess  
uh_huh  
right  
especially when it's so far removed  
if it's no one that i know   then you have to think about the taxpayers paying   the shelter and feed and clothe   them for the rest of their life  
letting him out again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
you know i just recently moved to massachusetts  
i'm not sure what their policy is on capital punishment  
and that was one of the questions  
but uh i do know that they are notorious for paroling people  
yeah  
when they're when  
and then having them [reconvicted] for   violent crimes  
and i guess they said you know do you think it should be restricted  
i guess if it were if if  
because a lot of states do still practice capital punishment  
i guess violent crimes would be the crimes where i can see it making the most sense  
you know violent crimes with no uh with just malicious intent  
yeah  
hang  
and what is he going to do prison to the other people  
right  
well i was i saw on a human interest story or whatever today there was a woman who was just being paroled and trying to make it back  
she   was off drugs and everything  
but she said uh you know in prison you can get anything  
you can any drugs you want  
there's  
it it's just like being outside  
you know people   find ways around  
and there's a power structure that you have bow to  
and and it really isn't for some people who have been there for over and over and over it really isn't uh as bad  
i mean there's  
it's not that bad of a life as it should be   for the punishment aspect  
but the society is turned against punishment and more towards rehabilitation  
and   maybe that's why one of the reasons why crime has gone up because it's not so scary anymore  
right  
and what they're going to be doing when they   get out  
handed it to you  
oh oh i see  
well maybe if they could uh  
if they had more money or more more resources to work more on rehabilitation  
i mean deep down i think every every human  
so how do you feel about capital punishment  
really  
oh i'm pretty much for it  
we'll have some interesting discussion i guess  
wrongfully  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it would never be equal  
right  
right  
yeah  
well i guess you know i i guess i can see it from several different perspectives  
but you know when i hear about things like you know what they've what they've been reporting about in milwaukee you know i i to me i don't see any way of [rehabilitating] the guy  
you know maybe there is i don't know  
but you know and you know he's never going to be to me a functioning part of society  
he's already been either paroled or whatever for child molestation  
i mean i don't know  
i just i really have a hard time with that because he really sounds like a real [sicko]  
and you know for the things he's done  
i don't know  
i guess it's either you know put him in jail for the rest of his life you know or or capital punishment i guess you know  
uh_huh  
oh really  
right  
yeah   well i can  
i i mean you know there there is always that chance  
but you know i guess to some people it'd almost be better to die to them than to spend life in prison or whatever i don't i mean i don't know  
but uh you know but that would be a situation where if somebody you know was [gonna] be you know  
you you you really throw a lot on the courts hopefully that they won't do that you know for any for any situation really  
but uh you know when i you find somebody just like that situation i mean it was disgusting when i read about it today  
and and when you find someone like that that you know is guilty he confessed already to killing eleven   i i'd you know i guess i have a hard time feeling [merciful] toward him  
and   you know   right  
right  
right  
and trying to rehabilitate him too  
and you know  
right  
exactly  
and uh you know nobody wants that  
you know everybody would be just as scared to death you know  
we we've had a real problem here in texas with uh prison overcrowding  
and they've been releasing people left and right  
and you know they've committed murders and rapes and everything else  
and you know you just think you know where's the justice here  
i mean you know they're not even having to serve out what they should be serving  
oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
well you know that's exactly i mean i'm i'm not saying i i think capital murder or capital punishment is the perfect solution in every case you know especially because there are some cases when you just don't know  
and i i think there's a a shadow of a doubt you know like with this this guy in in milwaukee  
i mean it  
he pretty much confessed to it  
i mean they you know  
just everything i mean [cannibalism] and everything else uh  
i really would have a hard time especially if i was on a jury not wanting him to you know be executed   yeah  
because i mean that's just awful  
right  
well i have a i have a [hunch] that you know the other prisoners aren't going to be too happy with him anyway either  
i mean you know they  
i don't know  
from from what i hear about jail life is not any way to live  
but uh i don't know it's just  
uh_huh  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
well you know especially like repeat offenders  
it it just [appalls] me that they can be out you know they even get a ten year sentence and be out in in two or three or four years  
you know that's that's scary because you know i'm not sure i think we're paroling them without even knowing if they're you know going to be committing any more violent acts or not  
right  
and it it's it's really scary  
i you know  
i i don't know what the perfect solution to that is  
but i know that especially with violent crimes where you know you're nearly a hundred percent convinced that they're guilty and without much repentance or anything else you know then i don't know i i guess i i just really don't see much use for this guy in milwaukee you know  
for instance i mean that's just  
i could see capital punishment in a case like that and you know for for other people too that do things like that  
but uh when  
uh my wife and i are both participating in this survey  
and she picked up the phone  
and when she heard the topic she said capital punishment  
so she was uh  
yeah  
well luckily it was for me because they want they coordinate the times so it can   only be one or the other  
so she tried to enter her number  
and it wouldn't work  
so she said whew it's for you  
so but uh you know i don't know  
i i struggle with it  
but i i really think that in in terms of like this i'd i think that it it might not be such a bad thing because i don't know that anybody i don't know that anybody would feel good you know like if you let someone like that loose in your community  
you know i i i'm  
you'd have to be scared to death  
okay  
capital punishment  
um for myself i'm personally against it  
but we seem to have a [duality] of in this country where most states in theory have it but but but do not use it  
okay well  
uh texas uses it as about as much as any other state  
texas is a big state  
um here in maryland to the capital punishment law  
people are sometimes sentenced to capital punishment but no one no one has actually has the sentence carried out  
uh i'd certainly  
uh_huh  
i think so  
i uh  
or affair number  
uh in fact i think that it it affected the sentence though capital punishment is available  
the sentence of life without possibility of parole uh has become a common one and is being being used much more  
uh i don't know the exact numbers  
but but yes  
prisons are overcrowded  
um  
okay  
you're you're certainly in the majority   uh at least in this country  
uh we are i guess the only one of the major western nations currently with capital punishment  
no  
at least not in western europe  
probably not in eastern europe these days either  
um there are many reasons for it  
but they they certainly have lower crime rates and lower murder rates  
well in part it's uh it's the nature of societies perhaps more [homogenous] society in many cases uh  
[arguably] if  
[arguably] is because of of uh of uh welfare state benefits  
though i tend to be we tend to be skeptical  
yes  
oh there's no question that that they that uh you know they have you know all kinds of cradle to [grave] uh programs welfare programs providing for everyone some way  
i i i  
however the question is is that making the difference  
oh  
um i think i think that idea is even even more common in western europe  
uh_huh  
me too  
all right  
okay  
what's your views on it  
correct  
okay  
well i'm for it  
i think there are certain crimes that definitely uh call for it  
i i feel like that child molestation and murder  
i don't see any sense in someone living that does things like that  
i i don't feel like they're a benefit to society in any way  
and of course texas has it but they very seldom you know put it into effect  
so instead all of our prisons are full of people on you know   a lot of people on death row  
well uh yeah  
which is not very often  
right  
what do they do just keep them on death row   for the rest of their life  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you have the overcrowding in your prisons that we are facing down here  
i know that we have you know  
really in fact they're they're releasing people uh that are in there for you know not major crimes but uh robberies and assault and things like that  
and because they don't have room which then they're coming back on the streets and of course doing it again  
and um you know so we're having problems in in that way  
and i know that there are some cases that uh you know capital punishment does not fit the crime  
and there are [extenuating] circumstances on certain types um but i have to say that i'm honestly for it  
uh almost that eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth  
yes  
i know they use it very um  
they do not have it in europe as i understand  
yes  
you wonder what their you know how they manage to do that  
well england has uh don't they have a large fairly large welfare  
oh i i don't know  
but we have a lot of welfare programs  
and  
if both do and they tend to have less crime you wonder if that has anything to do with it then  
you know or is it  
in our society people are brought up over here thinking that you know everybody owes them something  
oh do you  
well that's interesting  
i would not have i would not have said that  
i would have said that it was more prevalent here in the united states  
that's an interesting theory  
i'm not that familiar you know  
i've only been over there a couple of times  
and i'm not that familiar   with that  
all i know is that for instance we were in germany in uh  
well i did hear the end of the prompt this time  
was that you that we didn't hear the whole prompt  
and it said that what what do we do we think that certain crimes should fit certain punishments  
and uh i was thinking about it after i got off the phone that that i really you know wish that there was some way to uh send a message to people you know about um child abuse and things like that  
that uh  
those kind of crimes deserve some kind of severe punishment  
too often i feel that people get off uh   without  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well sometimes they even wonder when when uh criminals plead temporary insanity for for for crimes that are so severe   and then you know they get sent to a mental institution  
and they play [loony] for a while  
and then they're back out in public  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i agree  
i agree  
because we  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well and too you know they can always be [blaming] the other person  
well she looked like my mother who abused me when i was a child or   something which i think is unfortunate for that person   and yet shouldn't be an excuse  
i guess you know a lot of  
and i was just seeing in the newspaper or the grocery store that some miss america was abused by the man she loved  
and  
is that the new  
i just happened to see the headline on it  
and i didn't couldn't realize if it was the husband or the father or what  
but i thought uh you know if these things if children are being abused i i'm wondering how our school system is failing that they're not even seeing this you know  
if it was that severe that when they're later in life adults that it's all of a sudden affecting them in this way that it wasn't shown up at all when they were younger  
and that kind of that kind of worries me with my kids only being under two and not having you know to to deal with that yet  
but still  
never  
and i lived in california   which i feel like california you know  
anything can go on in california  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i really would have no idea i um i don't don't really know  
uh_huh  
that would be pretty lenient in my opinion  
yeah  
that's that  
or like when uh i've heard when i  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i agree with you although i will say  
i'm not sure you know  
i sometimes have a problem with some of the especially more famous people who all of a sudden are crawling out of the woodwork to say that whatever problems they have you know was was because they were abused abused as children  
and the parents are saying hey wait a minute  
we didn't do anything like that   you know  
and and and i guess before i'd like to see that severe of a punishment for it it has to be a an absolute [certainty]   you know like uh caught at it or something  
you know or if they they uh you know severely beat up on a child or you know i would have absolutely no problem at all   you know with with  
i don't buy the routine oh they're just sick  
or they were abused when they were little  
well you know forget that  
uh_huh  
well but i can't see that either  
i don't feel that that should be any excuse at all or any deterrent uh you know   reason to not use capital punishment  
i think uh i think if i wanted to badly enough i could convince somebody uh i was crazy  
so my family may say that on occasion  
who knows  
you know uh i i don't think it's that hard to do   you know to to convince somebody that uh gee you just had no control over what you were doing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's the new one  
well you you're right uh  
and yet i mean did you ever in your life when you were little know anybody or hear anything of anything like this  
no  

well yes  
i but i was from conservative wisconsin  
and uh you know there was there was nothing on it  
which makes me wonder you know if it's as uh prevalent as as some of them claim  
it uh it it it's  
you just don't know  
and it all  
unless they're caught in the act or the child is very badly you know beaten up it comes down to a one word against the other   that type thing  
now texas is capital punishment for  
it used to be just capital murder  
and now they added mass murder  
are those the only two things that we uh  
uh you know because i have a feeling it is  
and i i think there ought to be more things added to it  
uh  
yeah  
i i think that's i you know uh  
killing a child or kidnapping uh  
and possibly not well  
i guess kidnapping maybe if the person gets very badly hurt you know  
if they release them two hours later he probably doesn't deserve the death penalty  
okay  
we're talking about capital punishment  
how do you feel about that [lenore]  
well wonderful  
i am too one hundred percent  
uh_huh  
all your life  
uh_huh  
there's no deterrent  
that's right  
there's just no deterrent  
and so many of those kind of people they got they have a better life in prison than they have on the street anyway  
so you know unless they really make it rough on them that's not a going to prison for a little while is not much of a deterrent i don't think  
right  
well i don't know what [oklahoma's] laws are  
but texas's i don't know are  
i don't know  
it's it's no ones  
i mean it's not the judges fault i don't think  
it's just the way the law is down here  
man our our uh prisons are so crowded that uh they can commit some pretty serious crimes and be set free within a year to two  
well that's what ours did same thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh_uh  
it's not here either really  
i do too  
and and you know but the way the courts are set up they've they've got so many chances for appeal  
but i think i think it needs to be [expedited]  
you know if they've been convicted and given an appeal and they're still convicted of of a crime that's [deserving] of of a lethal injection let's do it and not waste so many years to do it  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
somehow it just doesn't  
it works and then again it takes too long for it to work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it  
i do too  
i think that needs to  
and i don't see why it couldn't be [shortened] considerably  
but you know  

that's true  
it is overcrowded because there's so much drug uh problem with the people on drugs  
because that  
they with the drugs they're they're robbing and killing  
and uh that's why it's filled the prisons up so much i think  
no  
it doesn't  
yeah  
that's true  
with all these lawsuits and people suing people over ridiculous things  
but  
boy haven't that we though  
we really have  
but anyway i'm glad to hear that you agree with me on the capital punishment  
i'm i'm very [muchly] for it  
always have been  
always will be  
it could be supportive  
it it's   it's supported with facts though  
it could very easily be supported with facts  
right  
i am very much for capital punishment  
my dad retired from the federal prison of bureaus  
and i've been raised around prison   prisons all my life  
and i believe if you don't have a punishment [befitting] the crime there's   not any deterrent  
that's right  
especially not a federal prison  
well see we were under uh the states prisons were under a [mandate] to uh  
it was over crowded  
and the federal came in and said hey you know you have either got to build more prisons or let people go  
and finally our governor at the time which who is not in office now came in and said okay where we draw the line is no sex offenders will be let loose   under early bail you know   or early uh   get out  
but uh we have  
the death penalty is not given often  
but there have been  
and you know i  
maybe it should be uh well it should be given you know i i won't say [sparingly]  
but i do believe it should be [befitting] the crime  
right  
of course you know they're they're entitled to a speedy trial  
but then they're they're also entitled to drag it through the courts   for years and years   and years on appeals  
so   somehow you know it doesn't really balance out too much  
and it seems even though you know that they got  
the prisoner himself can come to the point that hey i'm tired  
i just want out  
you know i'm tired of fighting it  
then the system just keeps on  
and at that point you know i i really think there needs to be maybe a shorter appeal process  
well part of that is the overcrowding of the court system  
uh it doesn't it doesn't help them any at all  
and of course your court system when you get into the appeals  
i don't believe criminal is in a court by itself  
and the whole judicial system is backed up with a lot of junk that shouldn't be in there  
we've gotten into a very litigious uh type of life  
well i just  
i just feel like their crime and punishment  
and if if you don't have the punishment you double your crime  
and the you know that is just personal feeling  
it's not going on facts  
i think   the facts would probably back it up  
but  
what  
well yes  
i  
what  
do you want to start  
right  
you are right  
yeah  
i i suppose i should have  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
uh i uh i guess i i hate to see anyone die uh  
but uh i guess these people that go around and and kill children and women and everything else without any remorse uh i don't think they deserve to to live and be supported by us the rest of their lives  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well and even even that i don't really know if that would help  
i think a lot of these people do it uh mainly because of of t v  
and  
the double reason they they see it being done on t v and also the fact of of notoriety  
i mean they become well known  
they are almost like like a big star  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
well i i i think if they went according to uh the bible where it does say   an eye for an eye   a tooth for a tooth a life for a life  
uh you take a life you give yours  
uh uh that's for sure  
uh there's exceptions to the rule  
i mean if if it's an accidental taking then uh you look at that  
but you know most of these people that down right go right and and do it out of pure pleasure   uh i don't uh like to see that  
i guess also the fact that they say it's not a deterrent  
it is a deterrent in the in the sense that that person will never do it again  
not   not not if he's killed he can't   do it again  
the death penalty  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i i guess i'm also looking at beyond even that  
i i i guess i been thinking about it  
and i don't have a definite opinion  
but uh repeat uh crimes   uh maybe not the the more mild ones but you know a more severe ones especially on on armed robbery and stuff where they been taking from elderly people   and not just taking the money but beating them half to death  
just for pleasure too  
and   i guess you've got to look at something like that  
do they deserve to uh remain on this earth too  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh you hit you hit uh  
it doesn't matter  
um we're discussing the capital punishment i believe  
uh which  
i am am pro capital punishment except that i don't like the way it's done  
uh_huh  
i i agree  
i i'm  
capital  
the the  
capital punishment is necessary in in many cases  
but uh the  
it's not a deterrent um or our jails would not be so full  
there wouldn't be so many people in death row  
i think it needs to be something uh uh a [throwback] to where they did a uh public execution where it's visible  
uh something you know not gruesome  
but but something more where people know that it it was a deterrent and it was equal for all people  
if you committed a certain crime you were going to receive a death penalty  
and it was going to happen to you  
no stays of execution  
no no loopholes  
no  
notoriety  
yes  
but but they they know that their chances of actually receiving the death penalty are minimal  
they know that they will probably be out in ten to twelve years  
that they are going to write a book  
they are going to go on talk shows  
they're  
that that that's a reward   uh for a heinous crime rather than uh having them pay the penalty which is [forfeiture] of their life  
in in complete uh  
of any notoriety  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
well yes  
they will  
it  
oh  
well that's correct  
yes  
if if he indeed receives   the death penalty and it is it is executed  
yeah  
but but the the the chances are not great that that will happen  
but there's a greater chance that he'll be back out on the streets in twelve years  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yes  
why you know you could carry it to that if uh if they are a repeat offender  
and and you know that as soon as you let them out on the streets they are going to do this  
unfortunately the way our system of jurisprudence is set up um you only receive the death penalty for capital crimes  
and of course uh of battery or assault or that is not a capital crime see  
you you wouldn't be able to under our system  
now china and a few other countries have a little different view of that  
um you get caught with dope there and you die period  
there is there is no no appeals  
there is no  
well how do you feel about capital punishment  
oh you did  
wow  
oh really  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
oh wow  
okay  
wow  
really  
wow  
yeah  
well the cases like that they   should  
i mean if he's going to be drastic somebody has to be drastic back  
really  
right  
wow  
uh_huh  
no no remorse whatsoever huh  
well i guess in cases like that you know where the guy would obviously go out and do it again   i mean you've got to do something  
right  
wow  
you're kidding  
right  
really  
well i guess if the police came out and saw him fire the gun  
oh really  
okay  
oh  
wow  
what  
i guess cases like that i don't see why they wouldn't bring in the new evidence from the other case  
okay  
of that crime  
but he was found guilty of  
okay  
that works  
right  
well they pushing the death penalty  
wow  
okay  
so  
yeah  
and i'm really kind of against life in prison anyway   because it costs so dog gone much  
that's true  
i mean if you're going to put him in prison for life   with no chance for parole  
that's true  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i mean i don't know whether i'd stay in prison or not  
or  
yes ma'am  
yes  
they do  
i  
they've had a a number of cases here  
i mean not a whole lot  
well jackson i heard just the other day had their sixty first murder this year  
it was like last like year they had forty nine  
so that's going up  
but yeah  
they have a death penalty  
i hear of one every now and then  
and i visited the prison up here   and at [parchman]  
and i've been  
i haven't  
they won't let you on death row  
but they'll let you look down the hall  
you can't see any prisoners  
and and it's kind of a weird feeling  
i've been  
they took us around on a tour you know  
and i went got to walk in the gas chamber  
and it is kind of a weird feeling knowing you're sitting there saying like people have died here  
but i guess just going up there and seeing the surroundings and stuff the people up there  
well i i just last friday got off a capital murder case  
yeah  
i was on the jury uh  
yeah  
which is funny because i got called last night  
and the topic was uh something about juries  
yeah  
so i am just hitting it right  
uh how do i feel about it  
i i don't know  
well i guess it is right in certain cases uh  

well the one i was just on i don't  
i was an alternate on the case  
so i don't know what was decided  
they are probably still in deliberations on it  
but uh what i found out  
once once i was declared an alternate and i was dismissed we met with the judge the two alternates did  
and uh he went on to tell us how they happened to catch this guy  
and i remember hearing about it  
it was about a year ago  
uh he was he was involved in another one another capital murder the very next month  
and he was caught just  
they they drove up  
the police drove up just as he fired the gun and killed the guy  
so he was caught  
and uh it's interesting because the county i live in  
i'm not in dallas county  
i'm i'm pretty far north of dallas  
uh county i live in in the past ten years only had two capital murders  
and last year there were six  
and this guy is [indicted] on three of them  
yeah  
so   you have to wonder you know  
yeah  
yeah  
although you know it's not really revenge because it doesn't mean anything to him  
you know he he has no concept of what he has done  
he just well  
from what i can tell i mean i didn't talk to the guy or anything  
but   i mean he doesn't seem to have any regard for anybody's life including his own  
so it's it's kind of strange that you know  
no  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's funny because when you know they interview you before you go on the jury   and for capital murder i was interviewed by four attorneys for about five hours  
and i  
the  
i was the i think the ninety eighth person they'd interviewed  
but you know at the time when the guy kept saying could you ever convict someone  
and do you think you'd ever know beyond a doubt  
and i said i can't imagine  
i said if i knew beyond a doubt or if i felt beyond a doubt that he had done it yeah  
i guess i could convict him  
but i can't imagine you ever making me that sure of something  
but they really did  
it was it was   really amazing  
well that was a [subsequent] case that we didn't know about   and those jurors don't know about  
but this particular case i mean they had a complete confession from the guy   with a lot of things that that the police hadn't released  
so no one else would have known  
it was it was really pretty interesting  
educational  
well they can't they can i think in the punishment phase   but not in the guilt or innocence because he hasn't been he hasn't been found guilty of it  
right  
right  
so   you know it's although it's not going to take much   to prove that  
so  
uh yeah  
this guy is up for the death penalty  
uh and in texas there is there is a couple of questions you have to ask uh in the punishment phase  
uh for example was the guy [provoked] and was the response reasonable given the [provocation]  
and there is a number of questions  
and just depending on whether you say yes or no uh you you can give him capital punishment  
and if you're up to the point where if he still [qualifies] for capital punishment then you can look at mitigating circumstances  
so there is a lot of outs  
but the only result is otherwise he gets life in prison  
yeah  
right  
and and to me i mean you take away a person's freedom you've taken away most of their life  
yeah  
but  
but then you have to look at reality  
i mean i think you know normally they they may get out  
so  
but what is it worth  
i don't know  
personally i don't know which i would pick if i had a choice for myself  
yeah  
so you said you're from mississippi  
and do they have the death penalty there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um   yeah  
ooh  
that's right  
so how do you feel about capital punishment  
right  
you don't think  
i uh i have the same dilemma i think uh  
it's you know it seems right sometimes  
and then other times you don't know  
uh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
and also it doesn't seem like it does that many harm  
i mean sure their life is taken  
but they'd spend the rest of their life in jail anyway  
so   i think sometimes they'd prefer just to get it over with  
so it's more of the easy way out than   making them pay for the for the   you know what they've done  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
but then again also you can't bring back lives that have been taken anyway  
so   uh it's  
it doesn't  
it seems by that by  
i don't know  
doesn't ever really uh  
yeah  
right  
it doesn't bring back every  
what state are you in  
oh really  
in dallas  
oh really  
uh right now i'm in utah  
but i'm from plano texas  
so uh uh what are the laws like in texas  
oh really  
uh_huh  
wow  
i haven't  
no  
and they do it that way  
huh  
wow  
i think they're there  
i think that capital punishment is is uh in in utah also  
i'm not really familiar  
yeah  
i am  
so but i think they  
a long time ago i i remember my dad was telling me this i think that uh they do it by like a bunch of men have guns  
and one of them has the real gun in it  
so they don't know who killed  
right  
yeah  
no  
i know  
well i i'm not really certain how i uh i'm not certain that that it does a lot of good i mean that it ends up ends up effectively uh uh uh [avoiding] a lot of the crimes that have capital punishment   penalties  
yet on the other hand uh i don't know  
i mean there is things that  
seems like it's it's it's the right thing to do  
now you know i mean somebody a serial killer or somebody goes in and machine guns you know fifty fifty children in a school yard  
you kind of  
i don't know  
what about yourself  
uh_huh  
i mean people like  
i  
it's been  
i mean like the arab societies and stuff end up uh having effective effective punishments  
and and they're extremely severe  
uh i you know i think to a certain degree the reason that it it doesn't serve as a deterrent uh may be because you never know if it's going to be applied right  
unlike uh like in in arab societies if you get get caught stealing they chop off your hand  
and   and you walk around the rest of your life with one hand  
and everybody knows exactly what what for  
uh and you know and here with our court system and and ways of sort of screwing it around and stuff you can you can kind of always count on the fact  
or or there is a good chance you're going to get off  
uh_huh   yeah  
some people  
yeah  
except that i mean the the average cost to to society of having somebody in jail for all their life is is extremely high i mean something i i was amazed at uh uh per year  
it's something like twenty thousand dollars per inmate per year   to keep people in jail  
uh you know and it's sort of a sort of a crass perspective   on the usage of capital punishment  
but on the other hand uh uh you know i don't i don't know if it's that is that is that serious that they're really never going to be out of jail uh  
uh_huh  
oh i know  
i mean you can't  
it doesn't   taking taking one more life doesn't doesn't doesn't get things back the way they were right  
yeah  
i don't know i i don't i really don't know uh  
i'm in texas  

no  
i'm in austin  
where where are you calling from  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
it's texas is has is one of the one of the well  
i guess there is more and more states that are that are going back to capital punishment  
uh texas has had it for a while  
it's one of the [quickest]  
it it  
once it was it was [reallowed]  
i think it was outlawed for a while but uh by the supreme court i mean or the interpretation of the constitution  
and it seems like everybody stopped  
and then and then once they sort of [reallowed] it texas was one of the first to uh to actually uh implement it again  
they do it by uh by do it by lethal injection  
uh i'm originally from kansas  
and in kansas also uh they they almost immediately put back capital punishment  
and uh there they do it by hanging  
still uh they have  
i still remember the the the movie uh in cold blood  
i don't know if you've ever  
i'm sure you're familiar with it  
but have you seen the movie  
yeah  
that way  
yeah  
well they they show it  
not not  
i mean the the movie was made in like nineteen sixty two or something like that  
and so it's uh it's not particularly graphic  
but on the other hand it's it's fairly impressive to watch them you know walk into the room with [gallows]  
it's kind of a barn like structure  
is that right  
are you there in school  
yeah  
uh_huh  
has has a  
yeah  
has a real bullets  
and the rest of them have [blanks]  
yeah  
i i certainly wouldn't want to be the [executioner]  
i know that  
i've always said that if i if i had to kill and clean and do my own my own meat i think i'd become a vegetarian  
as long as you're sort of safely removed from it it seems seems not so so bad i guess  
yes  
gary gilmore  
yeah  
that's right  
and we still have a death penalty  
some  
a gentleman uh that was one of the hi fi murderers just had his conviction overturned well appealed again  
i guess we have the longest uh running inmates for death row too  
and then we had another guy uh ronald [lafferty] that thought god told him to kill his sister in law  
he just got a a new trial because   the judge felt that he was [incompetent]  
uh how do you feel about the death penalty  
oh  
well i'm sure that's  
well i kind of agree with terrorism  
i think those guys should be done away with  
that's one of the worst   crimes in my book  
and uh drug dealing um   that's close  
but uh   terrorism definitely and   uh selling out your country  
uh no  
it's got to be something that is going to cost them because we never lock anybody up forever  
not very often at all  
we've got these guys in new york that uh i'm sure you heard about the ones that killed uh the gentleman that came from utah to watch the tennis   people  
and i guess they got convicted the four of   uh murder  
so you've come to a definite opinion on it now  
yeah  
you kind of hate to  
you mean   uh violence  
the witnesses  
well maybe it would  
uh i kind of have a problem with our legal system at the moment uh as it is  
i think that people who uh [infringe] on other people's rights uh and screw up their whole lives with rape uh child molesting uh terrorism just uh  
there's just like five things that i think they ought to be [snuffed] for  
but i'm i'm for it for certain reasons  
and i think that things like rape uh you can't get over uh it takes a lifetime  
uh if it was   yeah  
if it was it would probably have to be a pattern  
you know we have plenty of convicted guys that go into jail and come back out do the same thing and go back  
and uh if they're habitual like three times caught for rape or child molesting   then [snuff] them  
pardon  
yeah  
but we don't seem to keep them long enough  
and then they learn such bad things in jail  
that isn't   a place of rehabilitation  
yeah  
it's a tough question isn't it on whether at what point do they become so detrimental to society that society can't afford to keep them around to   keep giving them chances  
uh let's see  
so the other question that they wanted was whether the place that we live in uh [compares] to how we feel  
what's the laws there in d c  
so utah  
that that's that's the state that got was famous when they executed somebody  
gary gilmore  
by firing squad as i recall  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i you know  
until recently i've been sort of  
could go either way you know  
it it sort of doesn't much you know  
it didn't  
it wasn't a strong issue um i guess it still isn't a strong issue  
but i must say i find it very silly the way politicians are running around creating more and more capital crimes um   instead of dealing with you know the real problems that you know that they're they're getting votes presumably by um  
i assume they're doing it for that reason  
by by by saying well this doing this particular crime in this particular way is a capital crime now  
uh_huh  
it's not it's not enough just to lock them up forever  
not often  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
well i  
i've  
it it seems like it's gone gotten carried away  
um and i i do find it hard to know where to draw a line  
and so if i had to draw a line i'd say just no capital punishment  
i mean i don't i don't i don't see that it [accomplishes] a whole lot whereas i do think that convicting people and and [incarcerating] them for a long time if that could be improved upon that would have more impact i think  
no  
what about the argument where where somebody who is committing one capital crime chooses to commit a a more serious capital crime  
i mean murder um because that one at least you might escape from because his victim you know his witnesses will be gone  
doesn't this doesn't this encourage   uh   more  
doesn't this yeah i mean doesn't this encourage murder in order to wipe out the   the witnesses  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i see  
so so if if william kennedy smith had been found guilty you believe he should have been uh executed  
a six person jury could have decided either way of course  
uh_huh  
well the problem is that they've just been let out of jail  
the problem there is that they've been let out jail  
if they've been [thrice] convicted they should have been kept in longer  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
that's that's for sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i do too  
uh_huh  
well i think you know i'm i'm in that same  
i think if it's uh if it's a if it's a convicted uh felon on parole   uh and he goes out and and commits another crime or kills somebody i you know i i feel the same way  
i don't think i think that person is is beyond uh rehabilitation  
and and he should be taken out  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
you don't hear you don't hear too much about of those cases  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
huh  
right  
huh  
yep  
it sure is  
yeah  
it's  
uh_huh  
see the only thing i don't you know i don't understand i guess i i don't understand our judicial system uh as it is right now  
because i you know if somebody has been convicted and has been sentenced to be put to death how is it that they can appeal and appeal and appeal and get stays of execution  
i mean how you know is   there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh  
yep  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
yep  
what do you think about uh uh convicted uh  
well as far as i'm concerned and it's probably apt that your [call's] at this time because we just got through watching uh reasonable doubts   which had a you know capital case in it  
and uh i personally have uh  
my own feelings about uh capital punishment is i think it should be mandatory upon a third conviction felony  
mandatory i mean summary execution on the steps that day  
uh_huh  
well i i also firmly believe that no one is beyond [reclamation]  
but i do know that some people almost all people usually die before that point  
they just get too old  
uh as far as capital punishment on on it's own merits i have the trouble with the way it's applied  
i think it should be applied on a little bit more fair manner  
uh and i've i've said this very often  
and i believe it to be the a very true [axiom]  
so i would be rather be white rich and guilty than black and innocent   because if you're if you're black and you kill a white guy you're going to fry  
kill you   they will kill you  
and if you're black and you kill a black guy you know it's you know two hundred hours of community service  
well it's a social   disease that we have called one [upsmanship] you know  
we're the majority  
so we can do whatever the hell we want to do  
and you're the minority  
and you're stuck with it  
but uh you know we had this in the vietnam war you know  
we had you know  
population of blacks among military people in vietnam was about eighty percent  
but the population of blacks in the military was about twenty two percent  
the [handwriting's] on the wall there isn't it  
you know but that's another issue altogether  
as far as capital punishment i think that uh ten years on death row is cruel and unusual punishment  
i think the guy should have ninety days  
and if he can't produce evidence   not argument but evidence  
well  
that goes back to when uh america was a a colony of england  
in england you went to court you were assumed guilty until proven innocent and once they found you guilty you know judge said he's guilty kill him  
well there were some people that uh that had a problem with that   because they found out later on that jeez you know a guy will lie rather than get killed  
and he'll say you know hey that guy did it you know not me  
and uh or he'll have somebody lie for him  
you know people lie  
it's a   strange thing  
but they do that  
and to prevent that kind of misuse of power they wrote into the constitution a protection   against judicial [mishap]  
and the judicial [mishap] in this event would be hey you got the wrong guy  
look at that guy uh at e systems  
they were they convicted him of a robbery that he could not physically have been able to commit  
he was too far away when it happened  
he had witnesses that were you know they weren't dope dealers they weren't drug [fiends] they were employees of a an establishment that had a very high level of security sense too and these were really responsible people  
you know and they convicted this guy because somebody says well he looks like the right guy  
they all look the same to me you know  
big lips flat nose yep that was him  
uh greg  
uh i i'm not familiar  
i think uh you guys in indiana don't you have the the death penalty  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i i tend to agree with you  
uh i've changed my views over uh even within the last few years uh to be honest  
uh uh when i was in when i was an undergraduate i was a member of amnesty international  
and uh and of course at that time you know i thought uh uh it was stupid to kill anybody for uh  
you know that  
the eye for an eye was a stupid argument  
but the uh the more  
now i live in downtown dallas  
and i uh   you know i've seen uh i've seen cases on in the news and all where where you know uh a a person who had murdered a person is back on the street and then commits another murder  
i think that maybe uh a good solution to capital punishment might be uh reserve it solely for uh repeat offenders of a crime like uh murder  
yeah  
uh   yeah  
it seems sensible and [failsafe]  
i i uh i don't  
you know not completely [failsafe]  
but if a man's convicted of two murders uh you know there's a pretty good chance that something's wrong  
uh i also uh  
to tell you how liberal i have turned uh toward this or or or whatever side that is   i've kind of chosen uh i believe it that uh big time drug [importers] like uh say noriega for example   that these people need to be uh eliminated uh   from society  
and i think i think the death penalty is the best choice for those people because uh really any kind of uh uh jail sentence for them is just another chance to uh create another power structure  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh do you uh  
are there cases where you think that that uh the capital the capital punishment shouldn't be uh uh sentenced  
uh_huh  
right  
that's true  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
sure  
yeah  
i understand i understand your point  
yeah  
uh of course you know with uh with with dahlmer now uh you you realize that i think it's ohio uh gets to try him next  
and   they do have the death penalty  
yeah  
so uh that was a curious case  
i  
uh uh something is sort of [nightmarish]   to say the least  
uh well here in texas we uh  
i think even even this last week last week they had another they uh  
you know they use their capital punishment by lethal injection uh uh  
yeah  
we do have the death penalty here  
it's not exercised very often  
but we do have it  
i believe it  
i can't even remember the last execution we had here actually   uh personally i'm in favor of capital punishment  
i know there's a lot of lot of problems with it  
but uh   seems to me that some crimes are just so heinous that that the person just i feel doesn't deserve to live doesn't deserve for the tax payers to spend however many thousands of dollars it costs a year to keep them in in prison for life  
but i know there's a lot of problems with that like well they say okay if you declare someone put them on death row and execute them well then ten years later you find out that he really didn't do it then that life was wasted  
but   just seems like in some cases that it's a it's a good policy  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
that's a that's a thought that i had never really had on that   which seems pretty sensible  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you're you're right there  
uh i  
basically my views i guess they tend to be more economically oriented   in that i just you know they come out with these figures that it costs fifty thousand dollars taxpayer dollars a year to keep someone alive in jail   when they're going to be there for life they're never going to be rehabilitated  
i mean i don't believe that the prison system that we have today does much towards rehabilitation to begin with  
so to me i'm paying taxes you know twenty percent of my check or whatever   to keep somebody alive who i in my mind shouldn't be there in the first place and is never going to be a valuable or worthwhile part of society  
so i i'm all in favor of it  
well i i really don't know on that question  
it just seems like  
for instance the jeffrey dahlmer case i mean i don't really think that this person is going to ever be a worthwhile part of society  
i hope the guy never gets back out on the streets  
and in that case wisconsin doesn't have a death penalty  
so he's going to be sentenced to life imprisonment  
and i think that that he should not be allowed to live  
but you know then you're kind of playing god   which is never a good thing to do  
but cases where i think the death penalty should be withheld uh not really that i can think of  
i i would i would be in favor of the death penalty in things like you know murders and like you said repeat murders or   serial killers  
uh i don't really agree with the uh death penalty for people like noriega and such as that  
i think that they're they're operating on a more  
i mean i know that they're causing massive problems in society up here  
but i don't really think that that it's it's in our power to take these people from a [sovereign] state and say you don't deserve to live because   they're feeding our consumer needs  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that is very curious  
yeah  
that's that's right  
okay  
so what are what are your views on capital punishment  
yes  
so are they currently practicing capital punishment   in your state  
yes  
that's similar to georgia  
that's probably true considering  
yes  
yes  
uh i guess in a way that it it kind of defeats the purpose of having capital punishment if  
yes  
right  
that would be the intent of it  
well i think it would be more successful if it was applied in a more expedient manner if there weren't so many   appeals  
yeah  
if if the person who's going to commit the crime   knew that they were going to be punished severely possibly capital punishment  
uh i'm a research engineer  
i work uh with georgia tech  
um  
yes  
um  
uh_huh  
um that's probably true  
but i guess   there's other factors that  
but pumping more money into the school system is a   good thing  
but it's not going to  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
um  
so that's a difficult situation  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's probably true  

um yeah  
i guess that's not an easy solution  
there's there's no easy   solution for that  
uh_huh  
i'm sure it is  
yeah  
um yeah  
i don't i don't  
certainly capital punishment isn't   going to solve a lot of problems  
but  
uh  
i guess i am   for certain  
yeah  
in certain crimes  
uh premeditated murder   crimes of that nature i think should definitely  
any mass murderer type individual  
um  
uh_huh  
well you always have [castration]  
yes  
i read about that  
uh_huh  
i have ambivalent feelings because i don't think it serves as a kind of deterrent we would like to think it is  
but on the other hand it is very very expensive to maintain  
you know texas has one of the biggest criminal justice systems in the country  
and it's eating us alive budget wise  
and uh  
yes  
we   do practice capital punishment  
but the nature of the uh courts and the appeals and the stays and all that means that it's a very long haul before anybody's ever executed  
yeah  
and then i was reading in the paper just this morning it's interesting because i had forgotten i guess that i wrote this little topic down that it costs more to execute somebody than it does to keep them   because of all the costs of the appeals and all that   you know  
well i think capital punishment is supposed to be primarily a deterrent to other people   you know who would see it  
yeah  
but i'm not sure how successful that is  
quicker   maybe  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what what kind of work do you do  
um well see i'm a school principal  
elementary school  
and in a very poor section of town with predominantly anglo kids  
and i see kids already that are going to be criminals   in spite of everything we can do  
and see i'm afraid i think if we would take the equivalent amount of money and invest it in young people that  
i mean course you couldn't do that because you got to do something with the ones that are already there  
but i think we would make a bigger investment in kids  
we'd have fewer decisions to make   down the road you know  
oh yeah  
well   i'm not talking about just in the school system  
see i'm talking about  
like in in  
uh i'm afraid i think that there are kids who just ought to be taken out of their homes and [reared]  
uh i know the institutions don't work that well  
but it's a bad day because i get all these kids through my office  
i have a school of five hundred and thirty seven kids  
five hundred of them are good solid kids  
and i have the same thirty seven in my office every day  
and a lot of their parents are totally irresponsible  
some of them in the penal system  
and you know you just see those kids going down the road  
now not all of them will commit offenses that have to do with capital punishment  
but some of them have already been in youth centers   and that kind of thing  
and if we had something to do before they get to be full blown adult criminals  
and i'm not talking about necessarily in the school system  
i'm not sure that the school system should be the agent of all the social action  
i think that's one reason we have problems in schools uh  
and some of them are our problems  
but a lot of it's because everything society wants we are supposed to do  
but that's another subject  
but  
anyway i dealt with two or three kids today that are going to end up where somebody has making a decision what to do with them  
uh_huh  
i don't i don't know that there is an easy solution  
but if you could find a way to prevent some of it and i'm not sure what it would be   it would be money better spent than  
do you know it costs more to keep an inmate on death row than it does to send a kid to harvard  
that's true  
[statistically] that's true  
uh_huh  
are you for it  
i'm for it in   in some cases  
yeah  
what kind of crimes would you use it for  
uh_huh  
i i would consider it for sexual abuse of children on going   you know not one instance but perpetual [abusers] of children  
well you know somebody elected that recently  
and all the civil rights people are up in arms about it you know  
but uh  
so uh you know my feeling is that uh it's really being used today  
it it you know it it really isn't doing any real good purpose for anything because it's not cost effective because of the amount of time the people end up waiting on appeal  
right  
because you you've got all all the prison expenses plus all the legal expenses  
uh and you know it certainly doesn't seem to be a deterrent uh for one thing because it's used so [infrequently] and for another thing because i honestly don't think the people that are committing the crimes that would be eligible you know really care  
right  
i mean it's kind of like the aids phenomenon you know  
i'm [invulnerable]  
i don't need to care about this  
you know i i i'm   never going to get caught  
yeah  
one one   way or another  
yeah  
but but the other side to that is if you put him in prison for life there's a chance that he might do things in prison or you know and somehow redeem himself  
well   you know so that you know  
the the question is you know the other problem with capital punishment you run into is what are you going to do about people who are later to have been found innocent you know  
there are cases where you know twenty thirty years after the fact of getting evidence especially as new technology comes along that might prove their innocence then oops  
i'm sorry  
guess we killed the wrong guy  
right  
you you can apologize nicely  
but you know you know i think you know the the price you know  
it i've heard quotes you know it's better that a thousand people go free than one person be [unjustly] imprisoned i think is really the the philosophy of the way our legal system works  
yeah  
and you know the i i think that you know  
and the way it's being used now it's like you listen to bush is you know  
well where are we going to impose you know  
it's like for drug dealers is the new big thing like in  
tsongas is also saying you know capital make it a capital crime to be a major drug dealer  
and again i don't thing these people care  
they risk their lives every day  
yeah  
yeah  
and and you know uh especially now i live in in massachusetts you know  
we're going to get capital punishment here probably after the second coming or something  
so you know  
but you look at our our crime rates and things like that and you compare them to to like texas or someplace that does you know it it it's impossible to make a case that it's it's affecting it in any way  
i think it's mainly people like they get the vengeance of it  
because you know  
oh yeah  
it's lot of blacks  
also a lot of young people  
you know a a a sixty two year old guy is less likely to be put on death row from what i've seen  
and you know i i think when you listen to like the uh the the [victims'] families and things they're always talking about you know uh feeling justified or feeling you know like they've gotten something out of it  
i mean my thought has been once the guy has been imprisoned if he goes to jail forever or whatever if he gets killed it shouldn't make any difference to the uh the victim's family  
the only thing that should really i mean  
obviously if someone of mine who has close died i'd probably feel differently  
but   you know you know what the important thing is that they be caught and not be a danger to society  
right  
i mean the  
right  
and the the other thing is that you know i was reading through a book on uh [geneo] human [geneo] research  
and there more and more things like [schizophrenia]  
and why does it just turn out to be [genetic] or [biochemical] in [origin]  
so if someday we can go to jeff dahlmer and say well the problem is you you've got an [endorphin] [imbalance]  
and you know if you take this regularly you'll be a sane and productive member of society   you know  
you really get back to the question of you know is someone responsible for their actions  
society made me do it  
yeah  
right  
i think i've seen some statistics that say that uh it's more expensive to kill somebody than to keep them in prison for life  
right  
well that's  
committing them mostly is you know either crimes of passion or at the moment  
or they think they're not going to get caught  
or  
yeah  

yeah  
but you also have to think whether it's worthwhile on the individual basis for example someone like uh jeffrey dahlmer  
do you want  
by putting him in prison for life there is still a possibility that he will get out again  
whereas   if you kill him there is not that possibility  
yeah  
i don't think he could ever redeem himself  
but   in some cases yes  
yeah  
it's it's  
yeah  
once you've made a decision that way it's a little difficult to go back on it  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's  
the benefit of the doubt to the last [iota] is uh based on the uh person who is accused  
right  
yeah  
and there there they seem that the profit uh drug dealers the profit [margin's] so high that yeah   the the risk is almost not there  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well   it's also  
i used to live in georgia  
and you know the the big thing down there was all right we have capital punishment  
but if you look at who gets accused and who are the ones who actually get executed it's very [racially] related   and [ethnically] related  
right  
right  
right  
and that  
and you know also by keeping them in prison you do have the possibility though we don't currently do this of making [restitution]  
you you will work your prison job  
and any money you earn will go to the victim's family  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i i think on some of it you have to say someone's responsible for his actions  
i never like the uh   the defense   well i never liked the uh insanity defense  
do you ever think that there's a crime that's just so heinous and so bad that the person who commits this crime just doesn't deserve to live anymore  
uh_huh  
of the statements made by people against the the death penalty um i i like the statement made by cuomo  
cuomo i believe is  
um he's he's governor of new york  
but uh he's uh against the death penalty  
but um he said that he would he would want to to seriously hurt or if not kill someone if if they did something to his wife  
and that's  
but but even even in that in that uh uh situation he would he would hope that there would be people around him who would uh keep him from doing the doing the things  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see i don't think the decisions that are going to be made on on the death penalty until we decide what our prison system is intended to do  
are they [reformatories] where we're trying to take people who can't survive or or that that aren't [conforming] enough to society so that that we work well together  
or are they  
is it a penal institution  
is it is is it designed for punishment  
um the death penalty surely fits in well with uh in a penal situation where you're trying to punishment  
uh perhaps not in the manner that we do it  
but but it in in theory it fits in  
in system in a [reformatory] i mean  
if you if you put someone to death you obviously   can't reform them  
so  
yeah  
i don't think it's done  
i don't think we run it as a deterrent  
i mean people say that  
but i mean if it was really a deterrent i mean i think like horse thieves in the old west you know  
they saw other horse thieves hanging by the necks   every once in a while  
and if we really if it was really seriously going to be a deterrent i would think that it would be public  
i mean i don't think it would be this private thing because nobody ever nobody ever sees it  
if someone ever  
if you know  
like say some young kids or something like that that might be inclined more towards a life of crime had to sit and watch and and see a guy burn or or you know something or shot by a firing squad or something like that  
i would think you'd make a bigger impact on their life rather than you know telling them that there's there's [protestors] out here at the you know  
that's a good question  
uh there would be a point there was a point where i would have said no that no one would deserve to die for for a crime that he committed  
but uh since i've become a parent and since i've seen uh things like jeffrey dahlmer i really have to question that  
i really uh i i can't conceive of someone being that brutal to that many other people  
and uh try and figure out what would be a [suitable] punishment  
uh  
oh it's a uh it's a question of your your gut reactions to something like that versus an intelligent reason response  
uh and that was the thing that uh killed dukakis back uh four years ago when someone asked him a similar question  
and he he thought for a second and gave a [thoughtful] well [reasoned] [reply] when uh people wanted to see if he was going to go for an emotion   uh a gut level reaction  
and i think that the people who are strongly in favor of the death penalty are really working from that gut level  
uh you know whether it be a biblical force uh you know the eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth a life for a knife life type logic or just uh uh some sort of anger at putting putting uh murderers up in federal [pens] for the rest of their life uh while we foot the bill  
i think people are are working at that from more of a uh a gut reaction than a a reason humane one  
that's true  
uh the other argument is that the death penalty is a deterrent  
and i really don't uh agree with that  
i don't think anyone who would commit a uh a crime that would get them the death penalty would stop at the moment and say well i was about to kill and [dismember] this person  
but oh if they catch me they're going to kill me  
so i better not do it  
i i just   don't think that uh that it works that way  
uh_huh  
well i i don't know if that would really work that way or not  
uh there's a lot of violence  
okay  
looks like we're ready to go  
capital punishment uh  
the problem i have with capital punishment is that uh uh it's supposed to be a deterrent to crime  
but i don't think that it really actually does that  
i don't think it [deters] anybody because most of the time crimes are uh are committed with a without any thought to the consequences  
and they don't think that uh stop and think and say well maybe i shouldn't do this uh because uh i might get the gas chamber or something like that  
they worry about it afterwards  
and then they try and get out of it  
and uh how about you  
uh_huh  
i do too  
yep  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you still have to do it  
i   i  
uh_huh  
so you're in you're in favor of capital punishment then  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
needs to be punished or uh eliminated from society  
right  
and then do it all over again  
uh_huh  
right  
have to agree with you  
and i'm kind of in favor of capital punishment also  
i just don't think that it acts much as a deterrent to these people because uh you still see them committing the same crimes  
but i tend to agree with you that uh we should have it  
i just i don't know that it's always effective  
but i guess we uh we're kind of stuck with it  
it's it's a difficult uh problem isn't it to determine how you're going to punish somebody for a particular crime uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh do you think they should be punished at all or uh like go to prison uh  
because they're not really a danger to society  
it was almost really self defense isn't it in a case like that  
uh_huh  
i know they put uh put them in jail sometimes i guess uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
you know now i wonder what you think about this  
and uh unfortunately we we don't get to do it  
but uh it used to be a long time ago i guess in biblical times when they had punishment if somebody did something for example to your family then you had the right to administer the punishment  
so if somebody killed somebody in your family then you had the right to uh if that person was caught and found guilty you had the right to uh execute that person  
and i know that uh if somebody had done something to my family i would feel that i had the right to to get revenge on them  
and uh but i i don't think that's done much anywhere  
that's kind of drastic punishment  
right  
might make you feel better  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
because they're a danger to everybody else  
huh that's interesting  
i have to uh   agree with that  
there's a lot of folks probably that are in prison that uh that aren't really a danger to society huh  
and uh  
right  
right  
probably more of them then the other way around  
interesting  
i don't i don't not sure  
i i'm in washington d c or at least very close to it  
i'm not sure what kind of uh capital punishment we have here  
uh_huh  
well i think that in some cases it is warranted  
and i don't  
i think in some cases it doesn't matter if it's a deterrent or not  
i mean   i mean i'm thinking of an extreme case like a serial murderer  
or  
well for some things  
i think for serial murder   it is warranted because if a person who would do something like that in cold   blood  
i mean   you can't guarantee that they wouldn't escape   from prison   and do it again  
and i don't think that that rehabilitation is effective  
but then you know i think that that some murderers don't really warrant capital punishment   you know   just like for example uh you know you hear about cases where women have killed their husbands   who abused them  
and i don't think   that would really warrant capital punishment  
uh it is to a certain extent  
but i think  
i don't know because  
i think in  
and it   just would depend upon the circumstances   and and the extent of the abuse   and and if another alternative was   available  
well i think that would be kind of drastic punishment  
and  
but one thing i think that if there is a chance for rehabilitation   then that chance should be investigated  
but like i said if if someone is is just [pathologically]   going to murder people no matter what   then i think they should be eliminated from   society  
but  
and a lot of people that are a danger   to society that aren't in prison  
well i know in north carolina we do have capital punishment  
and i'm in i'm from south carolina  
your turn  
but not for petty theft  
well it should be used as a deterrent do you think  
or should it be used uh  
to prevent further uh crime   huh  
uh_huh  
well you know there's this old uh jewish is it saying about an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth  
well one of the things i was thinking about is uh you know from society's point of view if you put a value on each person what you want to do is to [maximize] the end game value  
so if you have someone that that destroys that value   uh then what you want to take steps to uh minimize the loss  
of course you have to also put value on the criminal  
so if you terminate him that's a loss of value  
so you know if you weight everyone equally then you have to say well the likelihood of not [terminating] him  
if you don't terminate him the likelihood is expected value of loss of life is greater than one person  
in other words you'd have to you'd have to murder more than one other person   uh in order to justify taking his life  
another way you could do it is weight this value by uh the value to society of the people uh which is pretty delicate thing to do  
but one way of doing it is uh by income  
so if this guy doesn't make a great deal of money   which is often times the case then   then he's obviously not worth very much  
and so uh the likelihood that you know maybe expected expected murders by him is is uh integrated over the income of the people uh that he murders is maybe you know a loss of who knows eight hundred thousand dollars  
uh but if he only uh integrated you know integrated income over the expected [remainder] of his life of is uh small less than eight hundred thousand dollars then you terminate him  
of course one of the things that happens if you use that [algorithm] is you find that it's more easy it's easier to uh to uh terminate older people than younger people since the [integration] of their income over the rest of their lives is going to be less   which means well  
i suppose you could say well that has something to do with potential for rehabilitation  
uh_huh  
now that's all fine and well and and uh good philosophical  
but if you're involved yourself personally  
uh i know i have a friend whose uh son was murdered uh on the night before his [sixteenth] birthday  
and let me tell you uh i i knew them personally uh not [intimately] but quite well  
and uh you're talking about real trauma i mean trauma that extends beyond the counting of bodies  
the father you know  
of course a parent losing a teenage child is about as bad as it could possibly get i think in terms of psychological impact  
uh and  
oh yes  
they found him  
and he is on trial for capital murder  
uh well actually he has i i'm sorry he was convicted uh  
and of course now you know and you go through two or three hundred years of appeals process  
but  

okay  
uh i don't think they should [abolish] it  
i think i think if they put it into force more often they wouldn't have as many problems as they've got  
right  
no  
no  
for major things like premeditated murder mass murders uh you know that type of thing  
i don't think it should just be used [loosely]  
well  
yes  
yes  
to prevent these people from ever getting out on the street   by you know some technicality  
and they go down the line ten years  
and then on some little technicality they get out and on the streets again doing the same they did before  
and you know that's about the only thing  
like for petty for theft and and stuff like that or [manslaughter] you know  
i don't think they should do that  
oh well i guess   if i if it was someone in my family i'd probably feel that way  
you know i've never had anybody in my immediate family uh murdered  
and so i really wouldn't know  
but but i feel like if i did i probably would feel that way  
uh_huh  
right  
well that's true  
besides him  
okay  
his life isn't worth very much then  
right  
potential  
i mean that's that's the key right there potential  
now are they are they [rehabilitative] or or not  
uh_huh  
i can imagine  
yes  
was he murdered  
did they find who killed him  
so it hasn't been a long time ago  
just recently  
yeah  
yeah  
that appeals process i mean it's what you know really you know just drags out and out and out  
my brother in law here in texas his by marriage my sister's uh husband his sister was murdered down here by a guy in in well actually in houston  
and uh he  
well actually uh  
i i don't think i'm in the uh majority of in in texas  
i don't think i agree with  
no  
uh i wouldn't say that  
i think i would have said that a few years ago  
when i was younger i thought it was uh a sign of a civilized society if you didn't have uh capital punishment  
but um uh maybe slowly changing my opinion  
i'm not thoroughly opposed to it  
i still think it's sort of true that a more civilized society wouldn't have to use capital punishment  
but i'm beginning to believe this is less civilized society than i thought  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i certainly don't uh advocate turning people like that loose  
i'm not sure executing them uh does anymore than keeping them in jail  
but uh  
yeah  
that that's a factor  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i  
the cost is something  
but it's but i think it's relatively [unimportant] compared to what's the most effective way of   dealing with crime  
and i guess i would like  
i don't know  
the european countries certainly uh none of them have capital punishment  
and they   they don't have a crime problem either  
no  
you can't  
they don't execute anybody in britain or france  
and i don't believe they do in germany or italy either  
and they don't have the crime problems we do  
i don't really think that there is too much of a relationship between the two  
i guess what worries me about capital punishment is uh when i see people enthusiastic about it and uh uh sort of [bloodthirsty] i think it brings out the worst in the in the people who do the punishing  
and the that that bothers me  
but it  
but uh  
huh  
yeah  
huh  
well actually i  
the other thing that bothers me is when it becomes a political issue because i don't really think it uh i don't really think it's a very important aspect of fighting crime or law and order or anything else  
i think it just becomes a uh symbolic i'm tougher than you are type of emotional issue for politicians  
so  
i would like for it to be settled once for all and uh get in the background while the more important issues get discussed uh uh  
like i said some years ago i think i would have said there's no place for capital punishment in the   civilized western country  
now i'm i'm not so sure of that  
i'm i i wouldn't vote against somebody just because it was for capital punishment and   nor the other way around  
uh i guess i'm i'm  
my view of uh  
my  
i'm beginning to believe that some people are simply not [rehabilitatable] and uh that uh uh   costs and other factors justify uh uh executing people  
maybe it's more a symbolic [gesture] that uh uh than anything else  
and uh i've also never been a victim although i have some i have two friends whose wives were murdered  
and uh   i can imagine that uh uh for some people it would be the only form of justice in that case  
oh really  
you don't believe in it  
yeah  
you sound a lot like a friend of mine a   a girl i hang out with  
she has very very black and white opinions you know  
there's no gray in her opinions you know  
she she probably would agree more with you  
but but i don't know  
i think i would rather a person go ahead and be put down than give them the opportunity to get out and do it again  
i've never had a a punishment or a a crime like a murder touch my immediate family  
but i still feel very strongly that capital punishment is a good way to to punish especially criminals who seem to have absolutely no remorse for what they've done  
and we see that more and more  
like in our state right now there's a fourteen year old boy who raped and then killed a seven year old girl  
you know that's fourteen years old  
what's he going to be doing when he turns into an adult  
yeah  
no  
it doesn't  
but   it costs less  
and yeah  
to me it is  
i mean i work and i pay my taxes  
and i lived out in texas for a little while  
and they're  
and that's a pretty heavy state compared to georgia  
i mean you guys are are a lot more uh for to each his own even than we are in georgia  
but even in georgia that's the attitude for the most part  
if i work and pay my dues   you work and pay your dues and we'd get along just fine  
but when i've got to work to pay my dues and your dues   then i don't like you very much anymore  
oh really  
yeah  
you might be right  
i mean i i'd hate to be the person to pull the switch you know  
i would never in a million years want that job  
but i do believe it's necessary  
and i  
on the one hand i i guess i admire the person who has the guts to do it because i couldn't   i couldn't stand behind a gun and shoot somebody for nothing  
and i couldn't pull the switch  
but uh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
what   what's making you become more convinced that it might be a good way of punishing  
yeah  
oh gosh  
oh yes  
if it ever touched my  
capital punishment uh i guess out in california is has had a lot of uh a lot of you know [discourse] in the paper  
uh apparently you know there's they haven't uh executed anybody since nineteen sixty seven i believe  
yeah  
they  
well i we were we uh we just started we lived in redwood city when we were out there  
and uh and we found that uh you know it was a very liberal kind of community  
but the uh i i really feel that that the law enforcement community uh you know puts these people behind bars  
and then they they uh uh you know lawyers these lawyer groups get together  
and they uh they i think extend beyond the normal uh appeal process uh you know and just drag these this guy uh his his uh ultimate uh [demise] out for ten or fifteen years  
uh and i i think that uh that there's something that has to be changed in the system to to do that  
i think capital punishment uh uh was or probably stringent enough  
but i think the appeal process is really getting in the way  
do do you feel as though there should be uh more uh was or or more uh you might say [transgressions] that would be [enforceable] by uh by uh uh capital punishment  
uh_huh  
well the term technicality  
the law enforcement community   uh uh you know has to has to separate the difference between somebody who is being set up in which uh [grievous] acts are done to uh to you know to get somebody into a a situation where they're going to be guilty of of a crime  
or whether uh and whether the rights of that individual are been have been you know [impuned]  
uh but or whether there's just you know a policeman has just made a uh a you know a non a [noncritical] error though be it not the right way to do it  
but but you know the the merits of the case in terms of you know   the guy was a law [breaker] as being supportive  
now i i'm at this [juncture]  
i you know i'm i'm not sure you know what [constitutes] a a technicality  
you know that that's what all these these hearings are about  
and that's what all these you know court cases are about  
i mean our uh our our glorious uh you know mayor here in washington is six days away from getting out of out of the can  
and uh you know he he tried to appeal his conviction uh  
and you know it didn't work  
but be that as it may everybody who got enough money will pump the appeal process dry  
uh in in the old days you know and say round about times of battle of [hastings] you know and the [villages] if you were a [transgressor] they they either you know drove you out in the woods or you became a ward of somebody  
and he you were his slave  
and if he didn't like what you did he killed you  
and that has that's pretty effective  
uh you know it's not good for civil rights i guess  
but it's pretty effective in that you know you've got to get along in the community  
and if you don't you'll [perish] either by the hand of your your your master or by being pushed out in the woods  
so i i i mean as as man has gotten more complicated so all of the uh [imaginations] to uh you know protect him from from being uh dumped on by uh civilian authority in in in criminal actions especially you know murder cases and that sort of thing  
uh_huh  

uh yeah  
that's that's as far back as i can remember  
well that's before   my time actually  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think that currently the way the law stands isn't so much that the laws are [enforceable] or not  
it's more they're not enforcing the death penalty itself  
it's at that point where they're saying like here you're you're going on death row  
but you'll stay there for twenty years  
and nothing is being done about it  
uh the laws exist and are frequently [upheld] in in uh in appeals court just because of technicalities and because of maybe small little holes that their defending attorney can find  
and it's it's really getting out of hand in many states  
well it seems like well it it seems as if in the past typically there have been a lot of cases of people being wrongly tried or wrongly punished  
and the whole idea behind the current criminal process system is to protect those who actually didn't the crimes [albeit] it seems that we are failing in that in that ultimate goal because there are times when people who are guilty are getting off  
um for instance um there's a case a few years back where uh someone uh someone who's being convicted for was under a was going to trial for murder was let off because of a technicality in that the the [arresting] officer uh did not read the defendant their rights  
and where his   old evidence was there the witnesses were there the everything was [conclusively] [pointing] to this individual yet  
what do you think about capital punishment  
yeah  
which crimes do you feel that  
yeah  
because of  
so many times it's so brutal and just [recurrent]  
selling i think should also  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's  
go ahead  
texas is too  
texas i saw on t v the other night is the has had forty six in like the past several years  
so they're pretty hip on it too i guess  
they do it by lethal injection at [huntsville]  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what's happening here  
there is  
like uh that's  
in fact a big gubernatorial issue is the   the turnover rates of uh uh repeat offenders being let out and doing it again  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i wish if they were going to do it they would be a little more consistent in dealing with who gets lethal injection and who doesn't  
be a little more you know  
not being able to put it off for fifteen years  
oh really  
goodness  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i yeah i tend to think the repeal system for the death penalty is a little little too lenient  
uh kind of takes away from the significance of the death penalty  
i'm a graduate student at the university of texas in dallas  
uh [audiology]  
yeah  
what do you do  
oh really  
oh really  
neat  
yeah  
i just  
this was in conjunction with the guy that was put in the gas chamber in california  
so i think it  
the forty sixth in the last twenty five years i think is what  
they gave a run down that texas   texas tends to be a little more [robust] and disciplined area then  
yeah  
uh they they don't get repealed as easily as they do  
like the guy in california got you know twice before he went to the gas chamber  
and then they said okay no  
you don't have to go  
and then they took him back  
i mean it just seems   yeah it just seemed a little [inconsistent]  
and then you have like two  
you have these people who are serial killers that didn't even get the death sentence back when   ever you know  
no  
i don't i don't think uh the military doesn't execute anymore  
so  
or death before the firing squad or whatever  
so i think about the only one is uh rape  
well i'm kind of in favor of it for certain crimes  
well i think first degree murder uh probably [warrants] it  
right  
exactly  
[recurrent] crimes like serial rapists or serial murderers or   whatever  
i come from a state that has well i originally come from the state that has uh the death penalty  
i come from florida  
and uh they're pretty liberal on it  
they tend to like fry people left and right   which  
go ahead  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
i think florida still uses electric chair  
uh i don't i don't know  
in some ways i don't like it because it's like they're playing god  
and that's not  
i don't think that's right  
but on the other hand there's a lot of advantages to it  
i think crime rates [deterred] a little bit by using it  
and of course you have some savings in terms of taxpayer money keeping people in jail or not um  
with florida that's a big problem because there's so many people in jail that they have to let them out every year  
they  
uh_huh  
sure  
and it's like you know that's a big problem  
but there's not a whole lot you can do about it because there's only so many jails you can build  
and it's really you know it's it gets to be a a big problem  
uh go ahead  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because a lot of these guys you know they get in  
and they they get off for good behavior  
and i don't know  
up in minnesota where i am now they don't have the death penalty  
and you can almost sense that people are just laughing at the system you know because they figure well you know sure i i get thirty or forty years for maybe rape or something  
uh but then for  
if i if i [elicit] good behavior i'm out in maybe five or ten  
oh sure you know  
i mean just because like we said before they don't have enough room in the jails   uh you know there's a lot of incentive for them to be let out early  
but if you've got the death penalty hanging over your head uh  
i don't know  
i think that may solve a lot of that  
maybe not solve it  
but i don't know  
maybe  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what do you do [georgeanne]  
oh okay  
great  
what program you in  
okay  
fantastic uh  
i'm a doctoral student at the university of central florida  
yeah  
i'm doing an internship up at honeywell  
uh yeah  
but uh i don't know  
it's it's an interesting issue  
there's like you say in texas there's been quite a few  
and and in florida in the last few years i think there's been a lot  
i can't i you know i can't give you figures  
but uh  
uh_huh  
oh is that right  
okay  
yeah  
i i kind of  
yeah i've heard things about that  
i've heard that they don't mess around very much  
uh_huh  
jeez  
that's a lot of [repeals]  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know  
i i'm trying to think about other crimes that would warrant it  
uh i guess  
what is it what's the policy now with treason  
do they uh do they [axe] you for treason or is it a life sentence  
yeah  
yeah  
uh in texas they do have the uh capital punishment  
and uh i i i i'm probably one that has to agree with it too  
uh there  
some things that go on that i just feel that i i just feel that that that is a need  
i don't know  
a lot of people don't feel that way either  
but i just feel that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that is a consequence  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
well maybe that's something that needs to be worked on  
but i i just feel that that capital punishment needs to stay within the system  
not all states have them  
but i you know was that was that the i'm not sure if that was in  
was that the man that that claimed he was abused  
or  
and that he had  
he  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and how long had he been appealing  
how long was that  
gosh  
boy  
yeah  
boy well i mean  
and it seems like it it rarely does happen  
you know it's not it's not used that often   you know at least here in texas  
but i think it's something that needs to stay  
i really do  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my sister and i were wondering about this recently because a an old friend of ours in california   this happened about a week ago  
uh her husband just killed her  
and we're wondering if that has an effect  
if that if something does capital punishment you know does it happen with that within that uh  
i don't know  
right  
i think you're right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh i have an uncle that is an attorney that [defends] people  
well i don't know how much publicity it's gotten outside of the state  
but california we just put somebody to death   uh for i think it was a double murder  
uh to be honest i didn't pay that much attention uh to the details of it uh  
but it had a lot of controversy out here  
uh basically because in california people like to protest about everything  
uh but i agree  
i believe that that there are a number of crimes that capital punishment is the best way to go  
uh the big disagreement i have is that in california the appeals process uh is so extensive and takes so long that you end up spending a huge amount of money in like ten to fifteen years before you can actually you know put somebody to death for for a crime  
and i mean that's that's ridiculous  
i mean if you can you know the trial is supposed to prove you know within a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty  
and then they have appeals  
well that's fine  
but it shouldn't take more   than a few years  
i mean i should think   two or three years maximum you should be able to know  
and you should be able to either put the guy to death  
or he's innocent  
i mean   it's if he's guilty for for you know multiple murders or whatever the case may be   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
he was like uh  
the   the   defense the defense they're were giving given was that uh like his mother had had been an alcoholic when when she was   pregnant with him  
and so he he wasn't you know mentally competent or anything else   which is ridiculous  
and and the court found him competent uh  
and he knew what he was doing and everything else  
i mean   you know it was it was the best defense they could come up with  
i forget  
i think it was something like twelve years or something  
it was it was something really outrageous  
yeah  
i think in general uh punishment in the united states is a lot weaker than it should be  
i mean it needs to be you know  
it's kind of like the the justice system in the united states is kind of like the dog [poops] on the carpet  
and you wait three months  
and then you put his nose in it and spank him for it   you know  
i mean there there's no connection between the two  
i mean you take these you know most of the people who are committing violent crimes most of them not all by any means  
but you know a large percentage are the kind of people who are living very much day to day in the first place  
uh they don't really see past next week much less next year  
and to say you know well if i kill somebody then a decade from now i might face the punishment  
that's not real  
it doesn't have any real impact on them  
uh_huh  
uh you mean would he be put to death for that  
uh largely depends on the circumstances  
and generally you know from what i understand it's it's only the most brutal types of things usually  
where it's multiple you know  
if if they can say things like you know well he was just you know temporarily insane because of   some domestic [squabble] then   you know they'll they'll give him you know twenty years with with parole in in twelve or something like that  
yeah
i you know i'm not sure if we have the death penalty here to be perfectly honest with you hold on a second do we have the death penalty in rhode island
no
okay
no
we don't
but you know um i i have some feelings about it in the sense that i feel if a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
and it's a really heinous crime
i feel like the bible says an eye for an eye
yeah
you know something really a serial killer or you know someone who really has no remorse you know that that just does these things
uh i don't know without feeling guilty about it at all you know
and the and their we in fact we have an example going on right now with this uh school teacher involved some teenagers
into uh committing murder getting rid of her husband
i don't know if you're familiar with it [pamela] smart in new hampshire
see now in a situation like that the boys are only sixteen years old
and they were sexually involved with her
and i think like at that particular point she was twenty three you know
so she wasn't really that much older than them and being a boy at that age i think that they're very uh you know let's face it
that's at a point in your life when you're just starting to realize all the things of life
i think she probably had a lot of influence on them
and they probably would have never done something like that
if it wasn't for the crime of passion type of thing
uh_huh
yeah
now see i agree with that
i i don't think a person should be [electrocuted] or hung or you know in other words i believe that they should be punished and done away with on one hand like i say if they're if they're guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
but if there's the the other the other hand where you say you know if there's just that slim chance that they didn't do it
and then you know spend the time say life imprisonment then at least they have a chance to over the years be proven not guilty you know
yeah
oh that's the [cheerleader] thing
oh yes
that was on t v here
it made national um
yeah
really
but you know i i i saw i can't figure out what people are doing any more
i mean it's getting so bad
and i don't think unless that the that the laws get to the point where people are afraid to do something because they know they'll be punished you know what i'm saying
yeah
you know
and i i don't know if it would be
but i mean we don't know that it wouldn't either
yeah
and the other point someone made at one one time was that if someone is guilty of a terrible crime or they're a serial killer or mass murderer that if they're in prison that gives you the chance to um get into the person's mind to find out uh what led them to the point that they were at when they committed the crime to uh try to understand how their mind worked to prevent you know another person
from getting into the same situation
but i don't know
you know maybe you could do that for a certain period of time
but i mean how long does that kind of a thing take you know to to uh say to question the person or to get into their head
you know even if it took five years
i think that if at that time you you feel that they were guilty or that they were of sound mind where they knew what crimes they were committing i mean people know what they're doing
you know that that i really do
i believe that uh capital punishment should be there the prisons are overcrowded
it costs the taxpayers a lot of money
yeah
i'll tell you in the state of rhode island
it was so bad that the intake center that they have to house
the the criminals before they go to the uh [penitentiaries] and stuff
uh were overcrowded
and the judge fined the state thousands of dollars a day
to build a bigger intake center
so i mean it it's like where does this all stop
exactly
same thing here
and that's that's what they did
yeah
in fact the news tonight they had uh someone come on a seventy three year old man they they had gotten into a housing for the elderly and and the person who perpetrated the crime went in with someone who had a relative there
and uh apparently this this person was on drugs and the old man was an invalid
and he was in an elevator
and he died for twelve dollars
yeah
yeah
and i also think that the uh fact that a lot of mothers are working today
and that children are not [bonded] to the parents
and other people take the responsibility for raising these kids or the children are left out you know on their own
and they don't really feel the family
um closeness that we had when oh
when i was growing up and my my mother didn't work you know
and when she did a part time job
she was there you know it wasn't like she getting mothers back in the home you know kind of
oh i know
i know
how do you feel about it
do you do you think there should be capital punishment
yeah
i i do myself i really think that it's it's all well and good to uh be a do [gooder] or to to um you know try to spare everyone's life
but when someone has no regard for another person
excuse me their property or their personal uh being or their families
i mean you know when whole families are killed
and yet you have someone [who'll] commit a crime of robbery and spend twenty five years in jail
i mean to me it's like we have things messed up
somehow
you know what i mean
and and like this banking crisis thing where people have stolen millions of dollars
and they're out walking around
i think all our laws are really screwed up
i do
i don't know what to do about it
i wish i did
but uh
yeah
yeah
exactly
morals
yeah
did you ever see the program uh why does johnny kill about these young children who were not even like sixteen years old
they were eleven and twelve and fourteen and fifteen year olds
and they they actually committed murders and the question was whether to try them as adults
or as children
or whether or not to uh institute you know capital punishment where it was necessary and things like that that has to
yeah
i mean what would you do in a situation like that you say well he's only ten years old
but the crime he committed is that of an adult
he made that decision
you know you're talking to probably one of the late sixties and early seventies original [hippies] now living in [suburbia] raising kids
um i don't know
i have a i have a real gut response that says nobody's got a you know a right to take anybody else's life on the other hand i have seen an awful lot of
i have lived in major cities
and i have kind of come to the conclusion that there are certain people that should just be shot
yes
yeah
something like twenty two or twenty three
i remember reading that
and being horrified
well had she had any previous criminal history now that's the of thing i'd have to kind of look at
in texas
if you're going to sentence somebody to uh to death
what is is there a specific criteria that they have to meet
um if you were on a jury would you be able to to give somebody a death sentence
uh_huh
how about if it was a a seventeen and a half year old with a a list and all of what do they call it uh criminal as long as your arm over the history of violent crime
yeah
yeah
i come from a catholic church background too
and always thought you know that being raised in the midwest you really didn't see any crimes really any more heinous than uh [shoplifting] and it was very easy to maintain this stand that you know that that life is something that you have no right to take
i don't know
there was a oh what was his gary gilmore
did you ever read the book that norman [mailer] wrote the [executioner's] song
gary gilmore was the one who was arrested and uh found guilty of i think two or three murders in utah
outside of provo
and he was the one that was [petitioning] to have have you know himself executed
when you read his book with all the interviews this guy did with gary gilmore you know it sounds like the guy had about every turn given to him every rehab opportunity given to him
and even interviews with his mother she said that you know as a small child he basically was [amoral] and when i finished that book i kind of thought you know
what do you do with a person like this
see i would i always come look at it
do they have could they be put even in life imprisonment could they be put to useful labor could they do road work and those kind of things
and then you get somebody like charles manson who just the guy allowed
and then what do you do about the the thing that you know the the was it one tenth of one percent chance that they might have been convicted [erroneously] have you ever sat on a jury
neither have i
and i'm one of these people who votes regularly
and i'm always registered wherever i've lived and i have never been called
part of me says that i'd kind of like to do it just to see what it's like to be in that position where you are playing you know life and death with somebody else could i bring myself to do it
yeah
have you ever lived in a in a well
but dallas is
are you calling from dallas
okay
have you ever been a victim of a crime
when we lived in boston
i had eleven cars stolen
yeah
some of them i had for two days
and you'd go to court and you'd see these kids and then and what they did they usually hired kids to do this because you would get a you know a lighter sentence or no sentence or probation or you know something trivial
and it'd be the same damn kids over and over and over again
and the first couple of times you know i felt really sorry for them
but after a while
it was like you know shoot the little [shits] right then and there
then i felt really you know guilty about feeling that way
yeah
yeah
i you know i really don't know what i would do in that situation if i had to make that judgment i think i would i think i'd be very easily swayed by fellow jurors
but if they ever catch this guy in in richardson and coppell who's been uh you know [abducting] the the young girls
i don't think i'd even hesitate and then you get what do you do with you know people that are you know chronic child [molesters] where even a psychiatrist says you're probably not going to change them they're always going to be you know at risk in society and and i think you know having kids has probably really changed
you know my thinking on this
i don't know
i really don't know
yeah
but the code of ethics that's learned in prison is so bent and twisted that you wonder when they get out of there
even if they you know
claim that they're [rehabbed] they don't even have social skills
oh i don't know
i really don't know
i i think that if somebody asked me i would [hesitantly] say yes that i could hand down a death sentence
uh then a big you know my big problem would be what if you were in a in a state that absolutely did not allow it
and you were on a jury with some heinous you know criminal who had you know just wiped out an entire family
uh the bottom line after four years of working with the state prison system
i've come to the conclusion if you're going to give the man the death sentence
go ahead and fulfill the sentence [understandably] the supreme court says any time you hand down a death sentence to somebody they get a one appeal once that appeal fails within thirty days execute sentence if you're going to give the man the death sentence don't keep the guy on death row for eight nine ten years and make him worry about it
plus costing the taxpayers twenty five thousand dollars a year just to keep the guy locked up
no
i do not think one appeal everybody's entitled to one appeal
absolutely
and i wish they would exercise it more thoroughly let the punishment fit the crime in this state
we've got a very weird situation going on
we're under federal supervision and i agree to a point i agree with how the system works in some respects other ways i don't for first time offenders everybody's entitled to screw up once we'll give them the early release credits we'll give them the good time credits we'll give them the early parole second trip down whether it's for the same crime or totally separate one you serve your sentence day for day third trip down this is where my views on it goes way far beyond what the law states third trip down if it's for the same offense or for a totally different one this individual has proven that he does not want to conform to the rules of society
so you kill him period end of story
uh texas has got it [rigged] to where i can't shoot the guy can enter my property and i can't shoot him
but once
he's physically inside my house uh the law reads to where you can defend yourself
if you feel your life is being threatened yeah
at two o'clock in the morning if somebody's in my living room
i feel real threatened so i'm going to come out with guns blazing well the legal system in this country has gone to such extreme measures they've swung so far away from there there is no such thing as justice in this country any more
situation ethics i said yeah the guy robs the liquor store and yeah
he shot the owner but he was under the influence of [narcotics] that should make zero difference you shot the guy you get the death penalty period
that should be automatic death penalty
no [ifs] [ands] or [buts] but that's what's got our system bogged down so bad
now they've appealed everything to where if they've got one [typographical] error where in their in one line instead of spelling they've got one word misspelled
i mean it's a very minor clerical error
they couldn't tell they they'll appeal the hell out of that
and that just throws another wrench
and it takes two years to work an appeal
uh_huh
no
the people that came up with the laws that made all these loopholes and technicalities take a look at your congressmen and senators you'll find that the vast majority of them are practicing lawyers
that's it
what they don't realize is that the time is coming and i see it coming over the horizon that the majority of american people are getting fed up with their b s and are are going to demand real justice instead of this
in texas
we're getting to a point where a guy gets a fifteen year sentence he's going to serve fifteen months
and he's out
one month for one year actually assigned overcrowding overcrowding we've gone too far to the left it's fixing to come back hard right
yeah
i've been with them for about four years now
all things considered
i'd rather be a cop on the street
because once i walk inside the gate the inmates have more rights than i do say an inmate swings at me or he's raised his [fist] [threateningly] toward me
i've got to let him hit me before i can hit him back to be justified and have it called what they call a justified use of force
thank uh federal judge named william wayne justice
no
in inside the gate i do not carry any weapon at all
nothing
so they can't take it away from you
i seriously doubt it
it all boiled down to when the opening for this came up it was the best deal going
it was paying so much more money than what i was making before i couldn't turn it down
yeah
so it's got to be the most controversial thing if you could pick on the list
oh we don't have capital punishment i believe you do
oh
yeah
the the only thing about capital punishment is the i i remember someone saying i think it was a chief justice in this state
he goes if you make a mistake
how do you get the person back
that's the whole his whole basis was if you do have that error you know some people have been in jail for years and years and years and they're finally [exonerated]
and then you know if if if there if you killed the person and it's like oops too bad
i mean i think i've heard of cases where someone did they uh the they were uh it was capital punishment they were killed
and they found out years later that the he really didn't kill the person
i believe there was one case i don't i don't know where i read it or anything
but i think that there's has to they have to have put innocent men or women to death before i mean
yes
i'm the type of person who sits you know it's the same thing about the war
i'm this type person you know you need it
but you're the one who you can't you can't make the decision and go yes or no
i'd be a terrible president because i would you know i knew we had to go to war
and i know it was the best thing
but i didn't i would not want to be responsible for people getting hurt if you know if i don't know
well like
yes
but like you say there there's people out there that do such terrible things
i had one of the subjects was uh crime
and it was talked about the the way society has worked out
there's some people that are economically trapped
and they really their parents don't bring them up properly they have absolutely no morals
because no one taught them
i mean morals isn't something that's just in your heart you're born with it
you're
it's something that's taught it's something on the streets that you see
so if it's a dog eat dog world
it it's just really too bad that we have to have something like capital punishment
but i don't know how much of a deterrent
it really is
you don't think it's a deterrent
so even though even though you don't think it's a deterrent which i have a tendency to agree
i mean it's a deterrent
it's it's the ones like carefully thinking it out and stuff they think about it
but a lot of the street crime that goes on and stuff
they don't really care
and they don't really care what happens to them
i can see where it's not a deterrent
yes
does it matter to you
do you have a lot of violence where you live
where you work
so is dallas a bad city
i talked to someone from san antonio
and the [barrio] she said it was very bad
dallas
yeah
oh jeez
and that's relatively calm city
yeah
oh it's very calm
i mean you can our uh bad district i wouldn't advise going walking in there alone at night
but you could and if anyone was bothering you you could make such a fuss where people would come to your aid even though you're in the worst part of the city uh the only difference is that every street light is lit instead of every other street light
so we we're a really
we're uh pampered up here
uh and when they do have a crime a murder let's we had quite a few years ago a young two young men they were sixteen years old uh raped and and beat these two twelve year old girls really died
and it just shocked the whole state
i mean how can anything happen like this
and the guys that did it were so ignorant they didn't even they didn't they didn't have any remorse for what they were doing
but they were just so ignorant that one of them says well i didn't realize that because i was beating her in the head that she was really going to die on me you know it's like although why did you do it
she was screaming all's i wanted to do was shut her up he he acted like he didn't even think that this was going to kill her the kids were really quite ignorant about it
and it it was a [tragedy] on both sides
but it just shocked the uh the state that something like this could happen
i mean usually if something if someone robs in the night or something
and uh a home owner [confronts] him
i mean it's not a [blaze] of guns and stuff you know the guy might hit the guy over the head and people start running
i mean if this happened in the city the
i'm sure the youth would be armed and just take the family out
i mean we're really fortunate to live here
but doing these conversations it makes me feel really bad that there are kids that can't can't get out of the situation they're in and they're they'll eventually end up even if they want to be good kids they'll eventually end up uh more or less victims of crimes even though they're doing the crimes they're more or less a victim
yes
it's it's really sad
yes
it's bad sometimes the kids have no choice because the parents are are worse
i mean it they'll do drugs in front of their kids they bring the boyfriends and girlfriends home in front of kids they they treat them like little slaves they holler at
they hit them
and they go they go to the gangs more or less for uh family oh this guys nice to me he doesn't hit me
oh jeez
that's stupid
we sit up here on our fence posts judging but we're not there
but it's just it is totally unheard of that you you you even think it would happen
yeah
i know
oh
yeah
well then they wouldn't do this for the drug [kingpin] that they were going to uh institute the death penalty or or was it life in prison or whatever for the drug [kingpins] i don't
it's it's so full of [bullshit] the the drug war is just you can't trace it because a lot of the authorities are probably tied up into it
i mean
that's true
do they have a law on the books up there
right
so what's your uh opinion on capital punishment
yes uh
there's you know there are some things just that just are inexcusable
brutal crimes and serial crimes things like that
um you know to me the punishment doesn't even fit the crime but you can't get any worse
right
i think in a way it's unfortunate they've come up with with nice ways to um execute people i guess to me if if i was a uh potential serial killer or something
it wouldn't stop me to be uh to die of lethal injection i mean it's as painless as you can go
i mean i think if i was in a bad accident
and they gave me the option i might say yeah you know
give me an injection
but uh
i don't know about that
um but uh you know the electric chair on the other hand is probably a pretty painful way to go
i don't know
i don't know personally i'll never be in that position
so but i don't i think it should be something that's that is a deterrent
that's something that that that's scary
and something that's going to make you make you be afraid to uh afraid of the consequences depends on the nature of the abuse
and i really don't uh you know that that's it's something that's got to be evaluated on an individual case you know because there's there's really no excuse for abuse
but then there are other options
there are ways to get out
yeah
i mean there you would hope
but i guess it's really a it's easy to say
but uh you'd hope that someone in that situation would you know get out there are enough support groups enough you know over the over the last decade or so anyway
there's been
you know you don't have to kill your uh kill your husband because he's beating you up all the time you can can leave and have support it's not like you'd be stuck on the streets
this is almost as much of a crime
and i guess i don't know it's to me it's almost as much of a crime to just let it go
and uh
and i think i guess it gets back to if if if a woman kills her husband because he's been [brutalizing] her or her children
there's maybe more of a reason
and it's not an irrational you know just a brutal crime for the sake of just i don't know without a conscience or something like like some of these
that's kind of what i think what capital punishment should be for is you know somebody that's just you know missing something upstairs or just goes out and you know rapes and [brutalizes] a woman and turns around and does it again
and it's like there's just no excuse you
there's no reason i should pay for this person to spend the rest of his life in in prison
no
but i don't think uh i don't think it's right for somebody to uh for me to to uh pay for something i mean the the way it is right now the prisons are overcrowded
and we're giving people that aren't going to change
we're just we're just housing them until they die
and if they've you know caused as much pain and suffering as they have for for no reason
and they're going to do it again if they get the chance
it just doesn't seem uh
right
uh it's just like uh back in california the charles manson thing
and of course he'll never i don't think he'll ever get out on parole just because it was so well publicized but uh you know he comes up every so often
right
maybe they ought to have an island out in the middle of the ocean
we can drop them all off
australia might not care for that these days
on an island so far away
there's no chance they can ever get off
yeah
so i'm in the richardson area
okay
good
doug
did you did you hear our topic
right
what do you what do you what do you feel about capital punishment
sure
sure
all the people
we're feeding and taking care of
sure
you know i feel sort of the same way
i i think somewhere in the middle east in one of those countries if they catch you dealing in drugs they cut off your right hand
because that's the hand you use
i guess to wipe your butt after you do your job
right
then after they catch you doing dealing if they catch that same person dealing in drugs again then they whack they take off his arm so you know i bet they have a lot less problems with drug with drugs over there than we do here
no
just uh
public's too sympathetic
but you know
i don't know how old you are
i'm i'm i'm fifty
but i go back to where they were used to [hijack] a lot of planes and things like that
you know i used to i had a good friend who was very [vindictive] in his attitude when he said you know best way to stop this is if they catch a [hijacker] the very next day they stand him up in front of a wall
and they shoot him
and just watch how many after that happens two or three times as far as execution wise how many planes do you think will be [hijacked] and he's exactly right
you know he a [hijacker] gets put in jail and and lord knows what happens
he doesn't get any kind of a death penalty as far as punishment or capital punishment
and we feed him and clothe him and give him a probably probably put a t v probably put a t v in his cell and everything else just to take care of him
i guess
oh you bet
i believe in capital punishment
and i
oh i know
i think our state state
i believe state of texas has capital punishment
and you know uh
and i think the i think the punishment should fit the crime or vice versa
because you know a rapist goes out and for that guy to walk free if i mean he deserves to be executed as far as i'm concerned if they get the hard facts on him
and he is guilty
i mean you know this these people
there's there's got to be a line drawn somewhere and uh not that i'm that hardened cold and cruel
but there just appears do you know i listened to the chief of police of richardson talk about four or five years ago
do you know if a man goes out and commits robbery not capital punishment
i mean not capital crime but robbery
and he gets caught and gets sentenced to say eight years seven to ten or something like that
you know he gets five days credit for every day he serves just like a bonus for god's sake
that's the [damndest] thing i've ever heard of you get five days credit
so if you if you uh get a sentence of five to seven as far as time served in one year you're eligible for parole
that's ridiculous
yeah
that's true
i'm surprised there's not more [vigilante] cases you know i really am
and there's probably a a lot more than we know about because they're never they're never found out about
yeah
oh yeah
well you love someone or what if you're my age and your your daughter was raped by someone
and you know who did it
oh gosh you know that would be a tough time holding any father in his right mind down uh just like you don't like to think about things like that
uh what are the capital punishment laws in your state
or do you have it
yeah uh
or is it set for a specific crimes you know if you're convicted of this then it's the death penalty or or is it kind of just to the [discretion] of the certain cases
yes
i i'm the same way i feel that capital punishment ought to be mandatory under certain crimes
sounds like he'd grow old and die long before they get to kill him
seventeen years on death row
well uh since they reinstated the death penalty was it about seven or eight years ago
i think the [shortest] anybody's waited has been two or three years
i mean death penalty does not seem to be [swift] for anybody
i to the best
of my understanding they do not have death penalty here right now uh-oh
you know it doesn't make any sense that they don't
but they don't uh
and right now to the best of my understanding there is nothing [afoot] to get it reinstated uh personally i think there should be death penalty for uh the death penalty should be available almost any major violent crime and mandatory for murder
yeah
it should be at least available as punishment for rape
i think if it was a serious possible being executed for doing any of the major crimes that it would be a little less likely for people to commit them
yes
yeah
yeah
and it i don't know i if i think also they should be
they uh somebody providing drugs to someone that kills the person that ought to be considered murder and potential death penalty
uh it they used to have the death penalty in my home state of west virginia
and there it was death by hanging
uh but thirty four and it when they eliminated death penalty all kinds of things changed
and the rate of crime doubled within a about a year or so
and at that point when they were still hanging the uh state prison in [mountsville] uh had a very small guard force
and they had very little problems with their their inmates
uh after they eliminated the death penalty
shut down the [gallows]
uh place has gotten to the point where people who live in that area are all trying to get moved away
it has become a maximum security prison they have had a whole lot more problems with [breakouts] with uh with violence within the the prison
uh just the whole whole tenor of the thing has changed completely
well i'm sure it doesn't much now because the death penalty is very seldom uh given and even then like you say it could be
yes
it is
i know
well i i believe in it
i think
uh yes
i do think that
and i do think that i believe in it wholeheartedly
i really think that a lot of crime
we have the criminal you know element is just unreal
i work in a high school here
and it just boggles my mind what's happened over the last few years
i've been there fifteen sixteen years
and just watching the mentality of our teenagers and and the tough stuff that's going on now
you know
uh
uh well i think that they tougher laws for the teenagers yes
i do believe that not
but not the uh capital punishment for them
i really don't feel that
but i do feel tougher laws but someway i feel they have to [revise] our criminal system
uh_huh
i really do
and i think that the um oh rehab is terrible you know they put them in there and there's too
it's just because of numbers
well i understand
the rehab is so big
they can't but anyway back to capital punishment i do believe in it for murders
and and especially um oh you know when they actually thinking about it is that number one [manslaughter] something like that
i i don't know
i'm not real sure
premeditated right
murder
definitely
of course
i do feel that
and then the
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
and um
uh_huh
that's true
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yes
that's right
that's for sure
well and sometimes the uh on the rehab
i just from being around the students around they know how to talk to the authorities they know exactly what to say to anybody in a uh they know the right answers like
right
what's well what's within their legal rights and how to manipulate them
and how to manipulate them just just they they answer to authority and to people to adults
and that type of thing that they have to answer to or even the criminals do in to the people that count the judges and that type of thing you know they they usually answer to them
in a way that like i said [manipulative] they just manipulate they've manipulated so long
so this is
uh_huh
right
and for
right
very [sorrowful] and then when they get out then we run into the problem of getting right back into a routine again
of the same thing
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
i really don't
myself i really don't
i know they permit it here
but i don't know
you know the difference in
actually in fact we just had um a person put to death
oh about three weeks ago it was in in texas
and i forget for the reason now
oh it was for the uh that [clergy] that he murdered he murdered a uh a uh it was a priest i believe he
murdered
okay
well um about capital punishment
first of all i know that in uh texas they have lethal death by lethal injection i guess that's the preferred method have they used anything else in texas in your memory
i see
oh yeah
that's kind of the [euphemistic] term for it
um so uh have you been following the the dahlmer case at all
oh that's a little too grizzly too huh
uh_huh
i see
um do you think that uh putting putting those people in jail permanently would be an equally good solution
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well certainly for for someone like charles manson who's very definitely going to stay in jail for the rest of his life
i uh i can't imagine that he will ever be allowed out by the parole board that uh his life is not going to improve
um do you think uh do you think that that uh the death penalty is effective as a means of [retribution] yeah
as as as a deterrent value yeah
uh_huh
um well to be honest i think that the uh capital punishment is is is a uh red [herring] in the crime and punishment business
um as you said we're letting our people out far too much
really
the problem is that i i think two fold number one in los angeles as you may know there's uh lots and lots of problem high crime areas and uh in black parts of town the cops the cops don't trust the the people who live there
and the people don't live there
uh people don't trust the cops who uh run the beat
so in this heated air of [mistrust] people don't do what's necessary to keep crime down because uh you know if if uh it takes too much work or if you're liable to get beaten just because you're black or whatever things are not going to change
and so capital punishment doesn't matter if the criminals who are committing the crimes don't get caught in the first place
oh yeah
as as uh
yeah
yeah
exactly
you know john john [singleton] who's who uh made the film um boys of the hood
noted that uh one in twenty five black men will be killed at the hands of other black men
and uh that's you know for them the death penalty is irrelevant
okay [toby] this is brian weight and our topic
i guess tonight is on capital punishment and how we feel about that um if you don't mind uh how do you feel about capital punishment
okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
and that way it can be a a deterrent
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh great
the response yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
right
right
well i tend to agree with you
uh i'm kind of uh torn between two items
however i i definitely believe in due process that if a person is found guilty
so that we're not [ramrodding] a a guilty verdict on them
that's it
uh up for review in uh the appeal process
however i tend to agree with you that
well i don't tend to agree with
i definitely agree with you that there are people that are going to make sure that every t is crossed every i is [dotted] and to make sure that everything is just
right
otherwise you know someone gets off on a technicality
now
not only in the courts is that costing us money and millions and millions of dollars and wasting our taxpayers and uh [clogging] up the court but also when the uh the detectives the [homicide] detectives and so forth
when they're [researching] when they are gathering the evidence they're they're bending over backwards uh in typically what i believe is an open and shut case where the guy is guilty
there are seven [eyewitnesses] they saw it happen
they have [testified] what happened um
yeah
exactly
exactly
and the guy is in sound mind
and and so forth
he's he's not an idiot he wasn't acting i i don't know
you know in that case
we're we're spending money in the in the judicial system we're spending money in the law enforcement area trying to verify all this kind of information and the and the individual's guilty
i believe that if we have capital punishment that it should be executed [swiftly] that it should uh be taken care of not after seven levels of appeal
but after a couple levels of appeal uh under certain circumstances
um i have to plead ignorant i really don't know
i i think that that uh i think texas is for it
i don't think we have had any instances of it
pardon
oh okay
i'm sorry i said texas is is for capital punishment
uh_huh
i don't think we've had a case uh recently
but but it is
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
could be could be how do you feel about about
about the capital punishment
uh_huh
well uh i probably tend to come down on the side of of being for it
but i i think it's it should be uh there should be more safe guards to be sure that that you you know no mistakes have been made
but then i i tend to i tend to come down on the side that if if the laws were enforced that were on the books you probably wouldn't need it
well obviously that person wouldn't do it again
and it
but i think that like i said if the laws that are already on on the books that exist were enforced to the letter of the law
then i think that in itself would cut down on all kinds of crime
uh_huh
right
because i think i think too too many of them walk you know
uh_huh
um
well that's true
you have got to have the foundation there
uh_huh
um well i think murder
is number one uh i i tend to believe in an eye for an eye
you take a life then you need to lose yours
you know not not that you can bring the other person back
and obviously can't
but i see
no reason to for you to continue you know
and and possibly get out and do it again you know there's too much of if you could put them away
and then [assure] that they would stay there
you know where they couldn't hurt anybody else
that's correct
right
uh_huh
right
yes
i i really think that uh there is room for that
i feel like if anybody has committed murder
and they and they convict them that they definitely
and they're sentenced to life in prison then it's not fair to have us to pay for them to stay there for life
and then get paroled and go back out
i believe that if they're convicted and it's uh you know the only scary part i see in that is a crooked law system that would put people to death without enough evidence to close the case
do you know what i mean
right
well i don't think it's too uh productive to put someone in prison for a life time or like they say sometimes people get eight life sentences on top of each other
right
and uh then they are repeat offenders uh
i went to school with one of ted [bundy's] attacked girls
she was uh older than me
she was three years older
but she went to the same high school as i did
and we all knew when she was taken and he had been under suspicion and everything at that point
and i think
he killed her
definitely
uh_huh
right
we uh i believe that if a person has killed then there really isn't much point to them going on
anyway because they pretty much ruined what they came to earth to do
you know what they're here
to do to try to make life uh the best that they can
i definitely
no
i don't think so
i don't think that that's something that we should try to get excited about watching like [boxing] or some sport i don't agree with that
and i don't even think that they need to have more than just a couple people in there to make sure that it's done
and it should be
i think it should be done as [painlessly] and just done as nicely as it can be
but i don't believe in keeping all these prisoners what do you think
right
oh i think that there should be capital punishment even for other things
i think that somebody that's caught selling drugs
if that shouldn't be capital punishment
but if they are the high ones that are making these drugs and [importing] them
i think that you could consider that because in essence they're taking lives
because people are thinking you know what am i going to get five years if i'm caught so what's the big deal
yeah
no
and uh so i i i think it could go even father than i think that i don't know it's hard
you don't want to be so mean that you're you're doing away with people that have a chance to change
but then i you look at the reports of people that are in prison
and they act like they're reformed and then they get out and they repeat these offenses
so
yeah
yeah
i i'm a christian also
and that's why you get in the situation where uh it says how i believe
but if a person's committed murder that's an [unpardonable] sin and so why should we
pardon something that we don't believe our our god is [pardoning] do you know what i mean
this is for for for private and commercial sector
uh my feelings are is that i i don't really think that they should test for drugs that if you're going to take a job you know and then they say well we're we're going to we're going to test you you know periodically or something like this because the job is of a security nature or for the you know the public safety or something
that's might be one thing that i really believe that the employee should have the right of of before he takes a job of making that decision
there's just uh there's too many false positives and your your your privacy is is just taken away from you just you don't really have a a recourse if they say well it's it's you have a positive you know
and you say well no
that's not really true
and they say well okay
well here you have to go and and here you go pee in the bottle and and we get something we can watch you pee in the bottle
and we'll see if if if if if it's what happens this time
and they they just that the testing part of it is just really bad
yeah
they are they are they
it's one of the reasons is because of the cost and when you have such a magnitude of people
and
oh
let's see crimes and circumstances actually i'm i'm against capital punishment uh probably not for the reasons that a lot of people are
i'm against it because i really don't think that uh there are any crimes that warrant executing a person and the reason i think that is because i really don't have the belief that uh any particular person's life is worth so much that you ought to take this other guy's life for it
i think you can either you know put him in jail for you know some very long period of time or if they're really you know mentally ill then i don't think they can really be held accountable for their actions anyway
so uh i just i i'm just basically against it
uh i also i also don't have enough faith in our our criminal justice system to to avoid getting the [bloopers] in there once in a while
uh_huh
well isn't locking somebody up
i mean equivalent to that
yeah
do i
yeah
yeah
actually see i'm i'm sort of there are there are some other things i'm i'm against also i i think that [jailing] people for a really long period of time is is [tantamount] to sort of cruel and unusual punishment which i'm also against
so
and so so i'm sort of in this [quandary] you know i mean either you have
either you execute them
and uh you're done with it
or you know you throw them you throw them in jail for some incredibly long period of time
and then i think well i wouldn't you know you you don't want to be cruel to these guys
and they say by throwing them in a jail where they're you know constantly abused or what other other brother or uh other cell mates you know
so so you kind of get into this hotel phenomenon you know where you
got to set up you know some incredibly safe rubber room
but you know then when you set up the rubber room you know it's
so uh it's so [antiseptic] that it's almost drives the person crazy if he isn't
crazy already
and so
isn't that cruel and unusual punishment
uh
on the other hand i think there a lot of individuals who probably haven't really signed up to the idea of you know our i mean most western people's concept of civilization you know
and i mean western in the sense of just you know western philosophy i guess
uh but you know i i kind of don't buy into the idea that uh that to have a society you necessarily have to to you know terminate somebody if they have stepped across that line because i think there are probably a lot of instances where uh you get into a situation where somebody hasn't really signed up to being in that society
and i mean they kind of consider it almost they're protecting themselves or something
and well for instance the society sort of forces [themself] on somebody you know you hear once in a while you hear about these incidences where uh some guy is you know off there in the wilderness or something you know
and and and he just doesn't want to be part of society
and society kind of invades his turf you know makes him want to or you know makes him makes him sort of [abide] by their rules when he really wasn't even known to society before
and he winds up you know shooting somebody or you know killing a cop who's trying to get him to you know come in to pay his i
there's a million there's a million things
uh i'm against capital punishment uh
i i guess there's a cliche that uh for every thousand of criminals let free if one innocent person is
uh killed that that's a terrible thing for the state
to be doing
and i agree
i i remember watching a a documentary film a couple of years ago
i've forgotten the name of it now
but it was about a killing in texas where somebody was sentenced
i think it may have been just to life imprisonment
but in any event it
may have been capital punishment
but uh this documentary [documentarian] or whatever you want to say uh he uh interviewed all the parties involved
and basically got another person to admit that he had been the one who had committed the murder
i don't know
uh no
i don't think so
it was a i don't remember the circumstances actually i i just remember
no
no
this is documentary uh it was a a you know released in theaters
i saw it on p b s finally
i guess uh
but any event it was it was very interesting
and it you know i guess they say that you look for views in the media that support your own
and maybe maybe that's the bias
well what's your perspective on capital punishment
uh_huh
and there's also the factor that there's obviously racism in terms of even though certain minorities might commit a higher percentage of crimes than there are represented in the overall population they are also convicted of capital crimes and sentenced to capital punishment at a higher percentage than are represented even among criminals
so
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
i think i don't know
uh_huh
i think some bar associations uh a lot of bar associations are against capital punishment
and uh this is one area where perhaps they've done some of the work
i'm not sure
right
uh_huh
is that so i'm not sure i think i that sounds right offhand
but i'm not positive
i i have only recently moved to kentucky
so i'm not even sure
what kentucky's law is my guess is it's probably legal
but probably similar to carolina that it's not used very frequently
all right
so i guess we're all right
uh i don't know what the laws are up in uh new york
what's the law up in new york for capital punishment
uh_huh
gets sort of repetitious
it's legal down here
uh i i know they've done a few most of the time they'll get real close
and then they'll pardon them or it hardly ever gets to that point
uh i don't think they've one in a long time
but i know it's legal
and i know one just about happened recently
but it never went through
so they try
but you know very few actually go
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
there's always those loopholes ooh
was that was that on purpose
or was that a a [snafu] uh_huh
yeah
that was his dirt huh
yeah
uh well i can i can vouch for the fact that the uh the appeals will go through and go through and go through and yeah it drags on for about forever
you know i guess i'm about your your opinion of it
i have nothing against it [philosophically] in terms of
if you're absolutely sure
i mean uh uh i i would feel that you better make sure it's one of those cases that has virtually no possibility of you know pretty
i mean supposedly you got through the courts you're not supposed to have any reasonable doubts anyway
but i guess it would have to be one of those extremes in the first place
but there's enough of them
but i i've also heard that that these things cost so much in the end that uh that it really doesn't save you any money if it's a money thing
and as a deterrent thing i don't really think uh personally i don't feel that capital punishment as a deterrent is a is a big deal
i don't think that really works that much
yeah
yeah
yeah
right
[whoo] yeah
oh down here
it's not all peaceful either though i don't if you've been following any of this stuff
of course we had the big [snafu] right now with the the mets thing
but there have been a lot of uh a lot of things going on down here all the gainesville murders
of course i don't think they've they that then actually down here there's almost more publicity going on on police screw ups and and uh [beatings] and everything than than actual murders and uh the with the gainesville picking up people seemingly
capital punishment is uh you know an accepted punishment
it it's legal
uh there are there have been a number of [executions] over the last few years uh they drag you know the the appeals drag on [interminably] it seems sometimes uh personally i kept i keep thinking that if i could be guaranteed that the people who [perpetrate] some of these vicious crimes were never allowed free then i would not be in favor of capital punishment
but uh
but uh when i know that they could be paroled and go right back to doing what they did before
i i feel [decidedly] un uneasy about it
what about new york
uh okay
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
yes
i remember reading about that uh
it
uh it's more than that i think it's a capital murder uh where there there was an intent to do other harm as well you know where you you engaged in another felony like robbery at at the same time that you murdered someone
yes
by accident
yes
uh_huh
that's my understanding of it
uh but that uh murder is something that you do intentionally uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
you're not
uh_huh
uh_huh
or
that's right
and and it's a terrible thing to do uh and the world our world seems to become more and more violent all the time
by the way i'm a public school administrator
so
ooh
at all
they they do not respect authority uh they kill for fun uh
they shoot guns for amusement after parties uh
yes
well it's not it's not legal to carry a handgun in texas
but
no
it's not you can have it in your home or in your car
if you're traveling from one city to another
but uh rifles shotguns those sorts of guns are legal
oh yes
it's just that they're harder to hide
but i do
hi
i'm paul
pleased to meet you
i'm in texas
dallas
oh okay
sure
anytime
well i think it's a necessary uh a necessary tool that uh needs to be used uh to establish justice in some cases and to
that that it if used properly uh i think it can be uh it it would be a useful deterrent
yeah
well i think that i think there are certain people in society that have no redeeming uh worth to them
and that it's it it's a waste for society to continue to support those people those people should be you know disposed of
that's right
yeah
that's right
i mean they probably you know we the you know our justice system is not designed to be either efficient or effective or just
it it's designed as a set of artificial rules that you know judges and lawyers play with each other
well it it it uh uh yeah
but uh you know the problem is it when when we administer it by you know i mean like like in texas
we have the death penalty right
and they killed a guy a while back
and you know he'd been in jail for twelve or fifteen years or something like that waiting uh you know waiting his sentence
there there's no point in it
i mean
well it's it's it's because you know people don't want to recognize how to make you know how to how to make a punishment effective
i mean it punishing the person by killing them doesn't do anybody any good
the only way the only way it does some good is if it [convinces] somebody else that they shouldn't do something like that
and you know if the guy waits around ten or twenty years or whatever it is you know how is that a deterrent to anybody
because the courts require it
i mean they they they have said that well everybody has to have you know has to have the the the right to appeal well not only do they have the right to appeal they must appeal and you know they the lawyers go in there
and they generate
well they generate all kinds of possible reasons that they might be able to appeal
uh you know they they're they're trying to generate technicalities you know things which aren't really related to whether
the guy did it or not
as to whether something in the process was right or wrong
and you know it it doesn't work our whole justice system doesn't work like that
yes
that's right
it is it's terrible
i i don't feel sorry for the for the victim
how do you feel about capital punishment
yeah
for what reasons
yeah
definitely
yeah
i i agree that you know capital punishment is bad
but just more for the for economic reasons
because i i don't think it acts as a deterrent
and i don't think that um
and and and like what i've read it costs a lot more to actually you know go through the process of condemning someone and killing them than it does to actually just feed for the end you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
is he he's he's for the defendant okay
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
it's uh
i mean i've you know i've seen people that you know definitely got screwed by the system
yeah
um is
do they have the death penalty in new york
yeah
they do
um yeah
i'm not sure how often
we how often this actually it seems like about once a year they execute someone i don't really keep you know i only keep up after when the last one was
uh_huh
constitutional uh_huh
uh_huh
in tennessee
one thing that i've always that i've one idea that i've heard that that that i've you know kind of had some sympathy for is though that you know when you have someone that's you know that that that's you know that you are going to be stuck is going to be stuck with life imprisonment you know or two hundred and fifty years you know none of it served you know at the same time that you know to give them the choice of having the death penalty
it seems you know if you lock him away for the rest of his life you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
he he told us his yeah
he said that he wanted to die at that point
uh_huh
you know it really bothers me that in historical cases where you know someone tries to kill themselves in prison you know on death row
and you know where they've actually you know spent you know thousands of dollars [reviving] them you know just to kill them
and it always so it seemed to be some sort of
really
even if the the crime is extremely extremely serious
well it's not necessarily someone has the right but we do have the responsibility to punish criminals
so if some person just blatantly [slaughtered] [painfully] killed ten people does he really have the right to continue living and be a burden on society
yeah
i agree with that part
yeah
well some criminals would see it a life in jail doesn't particularly sound too harsh to someone who has been living on the street you know for all his life and and uh jail jail time would seem like uh know a break or a a paid paid [sustenance] for the rest of his life
yeah
make it
make it harsh as possible
yeah
uh well i live in california
i'm not really up on it
i i think we don't have capital punishment either uh
yeah
well
yeah
i'm one of those guys
okay
you too
uh i'm not sure there was the big one
uh earlier in the week in uh california that
on and off and on and off
uh
i don't know
i'm i'm uh mixed views on it
it seems like that
there just aren't are uh some crimes and and some lives that that that there's no other at least emotional reaction to it
what about you
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
right
right
that that there's just
right
right
right
well now does uh uh utah have capital punishment
huh
huh
yeah
yeah
that's it you know that that if it's going to happen
it seems like there is some sort of [closure] when
it when it's over and done with
i know that was one of the aspects that covered the sequel to the case in california was was both this is the first one in twenty five years
and they've got something like over three hundred on death row
but the other thing was you know the family of the victims uh one of the fathers of the boys i think in california wanted to be there to to witness it
and they didn't feel like the whole thing was over and that's been fourteen years too
i think
and uh
yeah
well that's then that's the thing here in here in texas
we've had a couple of cases in the last one one was was a murder case where it was
at this point
it was fairly obvious that it was a a girl was killed at a high school and it was pretty obvious that the police just picked out the black janitor and and uh set him up for it
and uh he really didn't have anything to do with it
and they
that certainly makes you think a again
and
yeah
and uh
yeah
yeah
well now in uh in utah
what's the method
is it firing squad or what
huh
well texas has capital punishment
yeah
and uh they go through a set of appeals that lasts seven years
and uh there are so many cases here like sixty minutes is on right now here
there are so many cases here where they proved that they've convicted the wrong person that i'm against it
they should just give them life in prison
right
yeah
exactly
right
uh_huh
well like in your state charles manson or the guy who killed all those children
yeah
uh_huh
right
something's going on right
yeah
i think so too
after after it's gone that far
then they pretty well have uh enough proof that that person's they can't be rehabilitated either
so
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
i never heard about those
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
and that's that's a reason that ted bundy supposedly went to florida
that was his primary goal was to to have the death penalty
because he started out in washington and oregon and travelled all the way across the country
they had um mark [harmon] played him
they had a movie about it
a few years ago
uh_huh
and then of course there was a lot of publicity about it
um the days before they killed him
so
and he was really you know he was off the wall
so
right
yeah
and some of the ways i think that um the way that texas um [executes] the prisoners is probably the most humane way they they do it by injection
yeah
instead of you know the electric chair the gas chamber it's
you know
yeah
well they you know they just go to sleep
and then then eventually they die
instead of being you know fried or or
yeah
fighting
fighting for breath right
uh_huh
uh_huh
okay
hello
yeah
okay
uh_huh
yeah
that's the same way it is here
right
right
it's just nothing but cost the taxpayers lots of money huh
yeah
and then they end up doing it again
no
i think that's very very very wrong
um i'm with you
i think if they if they've killed somebody they should they should pay for it
you know period
no
you know none of this going on and on and on and on
uh_huh
yeah
you know i don't
in other countries
i don't think they do that if someone does something bad like that
they just
do it right now you know
uh_huh
yeah
they pay for it right now
yeah
right
yeah
you know like you say you know anything they do they don't care
they could go out and rob somebody if they get caught they know they're just going to be out in just a little while
anyhow
so it's the same thing you know
but uh i just don't think that they should let it go on and on and on like they do
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
they make it wait for so long
and then people forget
actually what did happen
you know
yeah
right
right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
okay
i guess we're on uh capital punishment uh my my feeling by the way is that i think there is a need for capital punishment i don't think it ought to be applied to every crime obviously but there is a need
how do you feel about it
uh_huh
uh
yeah
i think it is does get uh strung out too long that they uh they keep people there ten twelve years uh uh that seems to be the norm
um i i don't know how effective a deterrent
it is when when that happens
uh but more and more people are being executed for crimes
i think down in texas uh just today or yesterday didn't you have one an execution down there
yeah
well they haven't executed anybody in uh in our state in new hampshire since i think nineteen forty four somewhere around that time frame it's been a long time we do have the death penalty
but uh they don't use it very much instead they sentence them to life and uh we end up as you say fitting [footing] the bill
the next forty or fifty years
i think one interesting question would be uh uh you know as far as circumstances uh i think we agree
if somebody you know is involved with a premeditated murder or you know a cold blooded first degree murder they deserve the death penalty
that's in my opinion
i don't know how do you feel about that if they take another human life you know
and they've they've planned to do this or they're doing it for pay don't you think that deserves the death penalty
now how about drug dealers where they don't directly take a life you know it's not like they're pulling the the the trigger on a gun or something like that
what do you think about uh major drug dealers getting the death penalty
i think capital punishment in those instances is probably even more effective than for uh the just the common street criminal that kills somebody
that person probably isn't thinking too much about it
but these major drug dealers uh you know they got some brains they wouldn't be in the business if they didn't have
and if they're threatened with the death penalty
i think it might make a difference on them
uh_huh
that's right
it certainly ruins a lot of lives whereas a you know somebody that uh is holding up a bank and shoots somebody effects a fairly small circle of people i mean the relatives and friends of the person that was killed
but but a drug dealer a major drug dealer is effecting what thousands of lives
and in effect causing some of them to die
oh is that right
uh_huh
uh_huh
i i that l s d even gets into the grade schools when they sell these uh [stickers] they look like
i guess they're [dots] on a piece of paper or something
and uh you know that's really that's really a crime to give it to the young kids like that
well i guess we've talked about all we can on this topic
what do you think
okay
well it's been nice talking with you hope you have a nice day
good evening
talk to you later
bye bye yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you have a has texas always had capital punishment have they ever had a period where they outlawed it
i see
right from day one
i'd have to confess to you that uh i don't know what the i honestly don't what the law in maryland is i think we have i think we have a capital murder law
uh i think that's probably the only crime for which you know capital punishment is meted out
my own i guess my own personal feelings are i tend to take a look at the social cost benefit ratio which sounds kind of [callous]
but uh basically you know is what what is the net the net benefit to society if you execute someone for a particular crime versus say if you lock them up for the rest of their lives or something of that sort
and in many cases i decide in favor of capital punishment
in fact i think in most cases uh
and there probably be a few instances in which i would think that maybe it wasn't warranted
that that's death
right
and uh let's see texas uses death by lethal injection now
right
oh i see
okay
i see
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well maryland's a pretty complicated state
because it's a well because of its colonial you know background
and then of course during the civil or during prior and during the civil war
it was a border state you know with half the state northern and half the state southern you know in [sentiment] and so forth
i suspect that like most most states uh you know in the nineteenth century
and so forth that they certainly had capital punishment
uh it's not a [quaker] state or something of that sort
you know like pennsylvania
but uh
and as i said i think we we have a a capital murder law on the books right now i guess my feeling you know i can set up some [hypothetical] cases where uh well suppose there was uh you know a famous uh medical researcher who murdered his wife you know
now this you know the question is what is the prospects of this medical researcher making medical break [throughs] that might benefit human beings in the future never mind that he murdered his wife
right
you know
and i i i think i'd have to sit down and say well what kind of contribution would they make
and also what what do you
i think another element in it in
it is
what kind of society
do you what what message are you trying to send to society
i mean like in the uh i i'm actually in favor of things like uh if you're going to execute somebody you uh i don't see any reason why they shouldn't televise it
you know or what have you
it's
uh it uh uh you know people ought to be aware of what it is that you know what it is that they're doing and uh you know what what the sentence really means when you uh you know if you sentence somebody to death
this is what it really means just like they show you what prisons are supposedly like uh they
pardon
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
i certainly agree with that we have dallas has now become one of the m
[ost]
our crime rate has just exceeded all possible goals or whatever
and we keep [coddling] all of our our men or women
[incarcerated] we have to have certain amount of space for them
i'm i think we just must keep this capital punishment
and i don't believe keeping them on death row for four or five years
is answering any of our problems
well it's not fair to the taxpayers so uh uh the lethal dose of uh you know
slip in it
i think they maybe should get back to [courtyard] hangings
no
no
i don't really mean that
but if people could see what was really happening
i think it would deter this more than than going in with the needle and [injecting] them
uh_huh
that's right
since our
have you ever served on a jury
that is one of the most uh well i think everyone should at least once
it was uh i've never been on capital punishment
but uh i wonder if these people were guilty until proven innocent
if we would not gain or more from our attorneys i don't know
yeah
well it certainly is a responsibility
but i think that uh we need to demand more from our attorneys when they withhold information
we have three cases going here in dallas now
two of them were murder
the
well finally the husband admitted to having [smothered] his wife even though he loved her dearly so he goes up for forty years with with a possibility of being out in ten
and the other man is charged with uh [poisoning] his wife with [arsenic] and it was a apparently it went on over a year they were a very wealthy family
and uh-oh
it just
it it you know
you wonder why why this happens
yeah
well we our previous governor wanted to put a tent
okay  
so uh then do you keep kids  
is this two year old yours  
or do you keep children for other people  
oh that's exactly what i have  
yes  
i know  
i  
my my little girl was three and a half in march  
and my son was two in january  
that's pretty close  
yeah  
yes  
it is  
have you been able to do that all along  
or  
yeah  
oh how neat  
how old were they when you adopted  
so he probably doesn't remember  
oh  
yeah  
definitely needed  
well that's that's pretty interesting  
well i have always wanted to be able to stay home with my kids   you know  
that was always my dream you know  
i wasn't necessarily a career person  
but as long as i was single and had to work i was going to get a good job and do the best i could  
and my husband was in the type of business that you know  
it's insurance  
so you have to build a clientele  
and by the time we had kids i couldn't quit  
and so i haven't been able to quit yet  
so i've had to deal a lot with child care  
and course we're hoping within hopefully the next two years i'll be able to quit and stay home  
but uh i started out uh  
my best friend kept my kids from the time my daughter was born   until she went to work last year in august  
and it worked out pretty good  
you know we had always said from the beginning that if it gets in the way of the friendship then i'll take them somewhere else  
you know the friendship is more important  
and uh it was a wonderful experience for my kids because she really loved them you know  
she loved them like they were hers  
and i   i knew you know  
i had good peace of mind  
i knew that they were taken care of  
and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
but she had no help  
she had no help  
she was alone with them  
oh that is hard  
yeah  
jeez  
i don't either  
so  
yeah  
you have to let them have some wild time   if that's considered wild  
yeah  
right  
right  
yes  
yeah  
well when when my friend decided to go back to work and whenever we had problems it worked out okay because she would come and tell me  
and we'd work it out  
after that i found another girl that had gone to church with us that you know they needed it financially  
she had a little boy that was the same age as my little boy  
and i though  
well you know we'll try her  
but she came to our house  
and that just did not work  
uh i mean she loved the kids  
and she was good with them  
but uh you know they were filthy when i'd get home  
now i understand kids go out and play  
and they get dirty  
but i mean filthy  
i'm talking sand in the ears and the eyes and the hair  
and the  
and i was like gosh  
and then you know my own furniture and stuff was like you know  
the kitchen table the i'd find peanut butter and jelly all over the table and the chairs  
and the  
and clean  
and i was like  
yeah  
and then in the end uh she basically ended up stealing a hundred dollars from me  
so i was i had a pretty bad taste in my mouth  
she told me about five thirty one afternoon it was a friday that she wasn't keeping kids anymore as of monday morning  
well you know i work eight to five thirty  
so what am i supposed to do  
so i well i had been sick  
and i  
it ended up that i didn't go to work monday because i was sick  
so i stayed home with them  
and we went to some of the kindercares  
yeah  
well that's what they said  
there were two pretty near our house  
and they said well bring them in this week for a free day  
so i lined up someone tuesday  
they had a mother's day out that my baby sitter took them to you know which was fine  
they liked it  
they had been going to it for years  
and so i stayed with them monday  
tuesday they went to that  
wednesday i took them to one kindercare  
thursday i took them to another kindercare  
and then friday my husband and i split  
but on thursday i didn't like the kindercares  
they  
they didn't give him  
oh  
oh that's horrible  
and doing something with him  
well not only was it going to cost me like a hundred and fifty dollars more a month which i didn't have   you know i didn't i you know  
we're we're a christian family  
and you know they because they're you know like public they're not private   you know they can't pray  
they can't talk about god  
they can't do anything like that  
and i don't want them indoctrinated   you know  
but i'd like them to be able to say gee god made the flowers you know and   things like that  
yeah  
yeah  
basic  
so uh i talked to another lady at church  
it was like thursday of that week  
and she said oh i found the most wonderful place that i've been taking my daughter  
and i've know this girl  
i went to college with her  
so i really i you i i value her opinion  
and she told me about a private one  
it it was associated with one of the churches here  
it's not the church i go to  
but it's you know it it was lubbock view christian church  
and it's a private academy  
and so i went over there  
and i talked to the lady  
well they have like a three year waiting list  
but she said i had a mother tell me that she may take a job in san antonio  
and she has a three year old and a [toddler] which mine was at the time  
and she said i should know something by tomorrow which was friday  
and she said if she leaves she said i'll let you have her spot  
and so friday afternoon at five thirty she called me  
and she said she's going  
you can bring your kids monday  
i know  
i was just like god set this   up for me  
he knew i needed this  
and uh so since october then they have been going there  
and  
i love it  
i have been at   such peace with myself  
it's just been better than even when they were with my best friend because we don't have the little day to day hassles  
and   the cost was not near as much as the kindercares were going to be  
did you hear my printer in the background  
i'm sorry  
i hope you can understand what i  
yeah  
i was only about twenty dollars more a month than i was paying because being a private institution they're [nonprofit]  
so they don't have to charge as much  
and the hours are wonderful  
and i just i think it's the best thing  
i told [russ] that we should have done this a long time ago   you know  
it's great  
so i guess as long as i have to work i feel good that they're there  
they're getting the love the care  
they have a little curriculum  
they teach them you know the [alphabet] the numbers the things which you know if they learn they learn  
if they don't they don't  
i don't feel like i have to [indoctrinate] them by age three  
but it's kind of neat when they   come home with it you know  
and uh   yeah  
oh and the teachers  
well taylor got bit several times  
and taylor bit several times  
and the teachers dealt with that  
we're like hey they're two  
and we keep them apart  
and we [scold] them  
and we correct them  
and you know they mark it all down  
and they let you know  
and and you know they get over it real quick  
and he doesn't do it anymore  
and   they work at the potty  
i just just  
so my  
i don't know  
i just feel like a big burden was [lifted]  
it is  
i know   i know  
and that's hard  
yeah  
well and it it you know  
but i  
i i i wish you could find a good mother's day out because that would be good for your   peace of mind also  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and that's usually like you know  
i don't know when mine were going to mother's day out  
it was like from nine to three  
so that was a pretty good   pretty good time you know  
my baby sitter would take them and then pick them up  
so that worked out real good  
well i'm tickled to death  
i hope you find something  
and   it was good talking to you  
well i guess  
it said child care criteria  
and i think we both listed an experience  
and you too  
bye  
no  
i have two children  
i have a two year old and a three and a half year old  
really  
that's wild  
oh boy  
well mine was two in march  
and the three and a half year old will be four in in july  
so that is pretty close  
but i'm home with the kids all day  
and i have really uh tried to make that a priority even though it's financially a big strain on us  
but  
pretty much  
pretty much  
uh i work part time  
but uh my husband's able you know mostly to take care of them when i'm working  
so   but uh we adopted these two little guys  
and that was another reason why i really wanted to be here because you know they have had a couple foster homes already  
the baby was eleven weeks old  
and his brother was   twenty twenty two months  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh boy  
yeah  
oh that's neat  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's the hardest thing i think you know   to to deal with is that people love your   kids  
i put uh my oldest in a preschool program just for him to have the experience of   two mornings a week of being with other kids and starting to learn some taking turns and you know   that kind of thing  
and uh he was in there for three months when i pulled him out  
and the the teacher had eleven kids  
it was excellent supposedly  
the reputation was fantastic for this place  
was supposed to be an excellent school  
and i had several friends who had had recommended it too  
but it really gets down to the particular teacher  
and she was a new teacher at the school  
and she had eleven you know three year olds in a room  
and i just think it was way too much  
the were almost all boys  
pardon  
i didn't think much  
i don't think much  
yeah  
and she was just my uh  
three year old is real active  
and she just kept saying how wild he was  
well you know there was kind of a [connotation] there of him being you know it being a problem  
like he ran back from the bathroom singing and [skipping] she said  
well you know at three years old   i don't find that to be a behavioral problem   you know  
i mean it's kind of like she was there was so much going on that she felt like she needed to control more  
and it's really hard to  
you can't control eleven three year olds with one person you know  
yeah you know  
so i just finally took him out plus financial reasons  
it was expensive  
but i was real careful and visited and everything ahead of time  
but i still felt like even after all the checking i did you know you really can't know everything   about what's going to happen  
i felt safe that the kids weren't going to be left alone somewhere in a room where a teacher could do something inappropriate with them you know because   there was enough classrooms close together that it was like a house with different classrooms  
and i   felt like that was a big factor for me  
that they would would be safe   you know from any kind of abuse or that   kind of thing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh gosh  
you had to come home and clean before you could   even do anything probably  
oh gosh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i was i took the kids there once just to try it  
they had a free day at kindercare  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i didn't either  
i had   one bad i had two bad experiences just that one day with medicine that my son was supposed to have for a cold that they never gave him  
and the other one was that the the younger one got bit   really badly by another child  
and what they did was they took my younger one out and put him in a crib and left him in a crib the rest of the day   instead of taking the kid that was biting out and do something with him  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so you feel like your values aren't getting  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
god loves you  
you know basic things like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow  
oh what luck  
really  
oh that's great  
yeah  
oh really  
wow  
that's okay  
i got the dryer going   in the background  
so  
yeah  
oh that's great  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they think it's fun  
it's not a big you know   trauma to them to learn something  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
because sometimes it is a burden having them all day because i can't   do anything with them here  
i can't even go grocery shopping right now   with the two of them because the baby is so into everything  
and the older brother is you know running around all over the place  
so   it is it's hard  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
i need to  
even for just a couple days a mornings a week or something   to have something like that  
so i i think i'm going to look for that  
remind me of that now that you mention it  
i was been meaning to do that you know   because some of the churches do have them uh you know for like six dollars per child  
and that's not that big a deal you know  
for a couple times  
yeah  
yeah  
that's sounds good  
well thanks  
did we cover everything we need to  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
okay  
well great  
well thanks a lot  
you have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
do you have  
yeah  
there okay  
had to mess with my phone here  
um do you have children  
oh okay  
i have three  
yeah  
yeah  
uh do you work  
okay  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no kidding  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
because there's  
yeah  
it's like a family thing  
yeah  
oh good  
oh good  
i was just going to ask you how it you know if you liked the the  
but obviously you do or you wouldn't have him there i know  
but  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
right  
wasn't the same  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
was it  
yeah  
good  
oh good  
that's great  
that's good  
well i got to stay home with my kids for the first ten years  
my oldest one is ten and a half now   or she's i guess  
yeah  
it's  
was about ten years  
so i yeah i i was really happy that i was able to do that  
but i  
that's what i wanted to because i uh you know i just couldn't wait to have kids  
and so if i was  
i was so anxious to have them  
and i couldn't wait to have them it would be kind of silly you know to go back to work as soon as i had them  
so  
so it it it it was really great  
by the end of the ten years i was really ready   to go back to work  
and my youngest was only uh two and a half  
i mean she was already two and a half  
so it wasn't you know she wasn't an infant  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so i felt real good about that  
but uh boy i tell you with summer coming up i'm just pulling my hair out in terms of what i'm going to do  
i i guess i   went back to work about a year and a half ago  
and uh i worked full time all last year  
and now i'm going to school part time and uh graduate school  
and i'm working part time  
and so i'm still  
yeah  
i'm still going full time  
but i only have half time salary  
and uh when school lets out i just don't   i haven't i have no idea what i'm going to do   because i certainly can't afford what we did last year   which was  
well we did  
we tried we had all different things  
we sent them to camp  
one  
first month in june they went to summer school then the second month they  
uh one  
my daughter went home to visit my mom for a while and my son uh went to camp  
and there we had uh i don't know some  
forget what else we did  
but it was all uh really expensive  
so now they're a year older  
and i  
my daughter's eleven going to be eleven this summer  
and my son will be   nine and a half  
and so   i'm not  
i think i can leave them home  
for a  
if i can work part of the day you know i'm going to leave them home  
right  
yeah  
yes  
in fact i'm doing that right now with their afternoons when they get home before i do you know  
that's okay  
but the four year old now i i have had her since i went back to work or before i went back to work really in a home day care situation  
and uh we've just been really thrilled   with it too  
we were what  
actually we  
it took us two or three different people to find  
yeah  
right  
but i wasn't embarrassed to shop around you know  
so the the person we found it through the  
there's an association here in town of professional home   care providers or something like that  
in plano  
yeah  
and they have a number you can call  
and all these people are registered with their association  
and you know go like our our uh  
i don't want to call her a baby sitter  
she's doesn't like   to be called that  
care provider  
right  
she goes to seminars  
and uh  
she gets home [visitations] by the i don't know the state boards i guess some of them and then some by the association  
and they have weekly meetings and everything  
and so it's just really really well regulated  
and she's just great  
in fact uh she's all upset because galen is going to go to kindergarten next fall  
and she says this is it  
you know i'm not going to have her anymore  
and i said oh no don't count on that  
after noon classes she's going to be here because she's going to morning kindergarten  
so but we we've tried we've tried everything  
and one year i guess last year when i went back to work i had  
my son was eight at the time just barely eight  
and uh we put him in amrein's day care after   after  
well that's why we picked it because they were were supposed to be real great  
and you know i think they were fine  
but the thing is he was in school all day   in second grade  
in in plano it's open classroom situation where they don't have walls  
so there is like a hundred and twenty second graders   in the same area with no walls  
and uh and then he'd get on the amrein's bus to go to amrein's  
and then there would be a whole ton of other kids all in the same room you know  
you know what fun they had with these computer games  
and then they'd go outside for awhile  
they had snacks and story time and everything  
but it was just like going to school until five thirty at night instead of being able to get home at two thirty  
yeah  
because he was always around with a crowd of kids and he just really missed being able to be by himself   and having some peace and quiet  
or you know  
yes  
yeah  
right  
that's exactly it  
so another thing that we tried to do  
i i know your son's too young right now  
but we're trying we tried to sign him up for after school scouts and   stuff like that  
and  
yeah  
right  
it is  
it is  
and  
yeah  
i bet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
understand  
yeah  
oh my gosh  
you're kidding  
you're kidding  
oh that's great  
well good for him  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's great  
that's so good  
uh_huh  
he's out of there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
no kidding  
she knows something right that she  
and  
yeah  
that makes such a difference  
that's the way it is at my daughter's nursery school too  
and i think that really makes a difference  
they're in it because it's a profession   not because it's a job they could get because they didn't qualify for anything else you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
because because  
right  
some sometimes that's fine  
that's great you know  
sometimes it isn't  
you just have to  
well is it real expensive then  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's exactly it  
see we do the same thing  
since galen goes to nursery school   we pay our our home care provider for our day care provider full time for a whole week  
but she she's gone three mornings  
galen just doesn't go there three mornings a week  
but i said to her i said you know it doesn't matter if for whatever  
when school holidays come around i used to have such a problem with that  
they wouldn't have anything to do  
i'd either have to  
are you there  
okay  
okay  
yes  
i have one  
how about you  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
i do  
i do  
i work  
and and uh [brian's] in a day care center  
he's uh he was two in december  
so he's not quite two and a half yet  
he  
uh i put him  
i'm kind of had different different ideas from what probably the majority of people have  
i put him in a day care center from the very beginning  
he started in day care when he was eight weeks old  
and i just  
i don't know  
i have kind of the opposite opinion of most people  
i have had this real problem with a a private individual  
i mean i i kind of looked at it like if you take him to a home with a with private individual when the door shuts   that one person has total control  
and i always figured at least in a day care center there are other people around  
and if you get one bad apple there's are at least other people that can see it  
they can watch  
and   i just kind of always felt that the chances of something happening were less  
you know how can you help depending on the day care center you know  
you got to when you hear about all the horrible things that happen in day care centers  
have you ever noticed they're always like a family owned center where the mother and the daughter and the son run it you know kind of thing  
yeah  
yeah  
you never hear about it really in the big ones  
so that's what i did  
and i have had just excellent luck  
i have been just so happy  
he's  
right  
right  
well he was in he was in the same center for two years   for the first two years  
and uh it was wonderful  
and i loved it  
and i was so happy there  
and the woman who owned it sold it  
but i thought okay i'm going to keep an open mind here  
and the people who came in it just wasn't it   just wasn't the same  
and their   their attitude and philosophy was just completely   opposite from mine  
and i left him there for about a month and just decided i can't do this anymore  
and i   moved him which was an extremely traumatic experience  
but   but he's done well  
he's been there   a couple of months now  
and i just feel so lucky  
yeah  
how about you  
do you work  
or do you get to stay home with them  
wonderful  
right  
right  
yeah  
i bet  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a baby  
yeah  
i know how that goes  
yeah  
right  
right  
did you have them in a center or something last summer  
yeah  
that stuff is expensive  
it really is  
yeah  
yeah  
i was going to say they're getting to the age where   you should be able to trust that a little bit  
yeah  
uh_huh  
to find the right one  
that's what we have to do though  
no  
where do where do you live  
plano  
care provider  
oh that's wonderful  
that's great  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
i've heard that   they were very good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
poor kid was in school all day  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
even at that age they need that time  
we all need that time   just some quiet time to wind down from the day  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's really important  
and we've already started about  
you know i mean how young can they start t ball and soccer  
you know i mean i just  
you know we both think of that that as just so important   to get him involved in stuff like that  
and   you could hardly wait  
i mean he's he's so much fun now  
he's really he's really starting to get lots of fun  
and i can't wait until stuff like that starts happening  
you know and you know we did the easter egg hunts   which was really the first year he was really able to  
and to know what we know what he was doing   you know and enjoy it  
and it was so much fun  
and gosh he went a couple of weekends ago and rode an elephant  
and god   he got up on this elephant all by himself  
and lord i couldn't believe it  
they had so much fun  
i bought us tickets and stood there in line  
and i thought i'm going to end up on this elephant with him   you know  
he did it by himself  
so stuff like that is starting to come along where it's really   getting fun   you know  
day care has just done just incredible stuff with him  
and he like comes home with something new everyday you know  
and so   i know i know they're working with him  
and he's excited to get there in the morning   and just doesn't even want to kiss me good bye  
it's just like bye  
and he goes running   you know  
and he's always having fun when i pick him up  
so you know yeah  
this this day care is is  
it's bright steps in lewisville  
and  
whenever you say bright steps everybody goes oh i've heard that's the best day care in town you know  
and it's it's one of those that's very hard to get into  
and they have this this this woman owns three day cares two in lewisville and one in irving  
and she had to open the second one up in lewisville because   her waiting list was just like you know like a year old  
it was ridiculous  
and she's got two day cares within like three blocks of each other  
yes  
so its  
she knows what she's doing  
all the teachers like about half the teachers are degreed teachers  
oh it makes a huge difference  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
and his old day care as much as i loved it you know  
and the owner i really liked her  
and she worked really hard to get good people  
but the people that she got   were there because they weren't qualified to do anything else   you know  
and and i got lucky  
and all of his teachers were   very good  
yeah  
but then sometimes you know  
yeah  
um it just went up the first of this month  
i'm paying   uh seventy nine dollars a week for now  
so  
it's a little high  
but but it's you know it's like where he was before i was only paying sixty three  
so there's quite a little jump there  
but i looked all over lewisville  
i looked in every day care there was   in lewisville  
and   you know and there were places that were cheaper  
but is it  
you know your peace of mind is worth a little bit of money   you know  
and i have peace of mind   where he is  
and some of those other places i wouldn't have  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
do you have any children  
you don't  
yes  
i have uh one a five year old daughter  
yes  
i do  
she was um at a private well  
i stayed off work with her for little over of a year   when she was born  
and then i had her at a private sitter for i guess two two and a half years after that  
um she was referred to me by a couple of people  
and she turned out to be wonderful  
i couldn't have asked for anything better i don't think  
i didn't want to send her straight to a day care  
and even though she was that old i still didn't want her to go to a day care  
and this lady you would think it was her own  
yeah  
she's real good  
yes  
it is  
and um now i have got her in a montessori school  
and she's really really doing good and learning a lot  
and actually i've started working up there in the afternoons too  
so  

well yeah  
i guess i'm going to quit as soon as school the school [season's] over  
but uh i really enjoyed being with her up there  
i hate it for her  
she has to stay that much longer  
but  
yeah  
they they go uh year round uh   teach them  
now in the summer they have like a lot of field trips  
there's a field trip just about every day if they want to go on one and stuff like that  
it's a lot more lax  
but but they still go through all their uh curriculum as usual  
um gosh  
i  
my husband and i both went  
we kind of give her the third degree  
yeah  
well we went over to her house  
so we told her you know  
well we didn't tell her we just told here we'd be over that day  
we didn't tell her when  
so that way i didn't think   you know the house would be you know cleaned or anything for me specifically  
and um she had a daughter  
and i want to say her daughter was like six or seven right around first second grade  
and um at the time she kept one other child um about a four year old i believe  
but it was only like a part time basis  
so we went over there  
and we questioned her about what she fed them and um what she did with them during the day and um you know just how she treated them how how her daughter was with the children when her daughter got home from school and   stuff like that  
and uh we really seem to be pleased with her  
and um  
yes  
oh yes  
and she still loves her to death  
i   mean when they see each other you know they just love each other to death  
and she literally spent almost the entire amount that i paid her on my daughter   either making her clothes or   buying her things  
so we're real real lucky  
but uh  
so she stayed with her about roughly two years  
and she um she had to go back to work  
they had some other expenses that came up  
so she had to go i guess get a real job  
yeah  
so uh  
well i checked a lot of places out you know the kinder cares and the   stuff like that  
and uh i live in garland  
and there's this montessori school that's nearby  
and um it had been recommended by some friends of ours  
but uh it it's an older place  
and so i uh checked out all the new places that were near us  
and then i checked that place out  
and uh even though it was older it was it was real comfortable and   i guess kind of homey  
and they didn't just play all day long you know  
like i noticed a lot of these other schools that i went and interviewed on or interviewed at um they did a lot of play work and stuff  
and then they  
almost all of them had a montessori section  
and i thought well gosh that must be pretty good you know if everybody's trying to incorporate a little bit of it into   into   their school  
and they made sure they pointed it out you know  
but after i looked at this place and i took [randi] with me uh i think just about to every place  
one place i think i didn't take her  
and i just kind of let her go see see what she felt like doing  
and that place boy  
if somebody came and she liked them and she went outside with them and it's hard to drag her away  
so i felt more comfortable at   that place  
yeah  
and she was real comfortable  
and she has really really done good  
i i  
it's hard to tell how much has been that or how much is just her  
but she seems to me to be you know pretty quick and smart  
and she's already reading and writing and stuff   like that  
and she just turned five last month  
so  
yeah  
i think so  
i mean i didn't want to rush school at her the whole time  
but     exactly  

i wanted   to quit my job so i could stay home with her the next five months   because i know she's going to have to face that  
and oh my god here we go   you know  
i just hate that  
but anyway so you don't have any children  
do you have any nieces or nephews then  
oh really   oh  
oh really  
just easy to get them   there and  
well that's a shame  
oh really  
that's   scary  
yeah  
i i was [petrified]  
i mean that's uh  
i don't know  
that's just it  
and that's why i don't mind paying more  
um i don't know  
i just feel  
yes  
and that's one reason i like working up there a little bit is   because i know what's really going on  
because you don't know uh  
because like at her school um as soon as you drive up it's got like a circular type drive  
they sit  
and they have car callers  
and and some kid goes out and gets the kid  
and   it's time to go  
well at first that always kind of bothered me  
i mean not bothered me  
but i thought well you know i'd like to see what she's doing you   know  
but now that i'm there i mean it's it's a lot more convenient because there's so many kids that [doddle]   you know when their parents come  
and it's hard to get them out  
and a lot of parents have places to go and   and things like that  
and it's late at night  
so you know now it doesn't bother me at all  
but  
yeah  
sixty six  
that one that's   set back in the woods  
yeah  
that's it  
yeah  
right  
right  
it  
and that's something i like too  
because   a lot of those places are like you know the one over here on seventy eight skaggs  
that little kinder care whatever it is  
you know it's right there on  
which this is on a highway too  
but it's set back   enough to  
i'm scared i would be scared to death my child might accidentally get out  
or   or if that seems like a real accessible place to where you could   you know go   in and get one  
yeah  
and   that was one of the places i had checked out  
and it was it it was brand new when i checked it out  
and of course it was beautiful and   clean and smelled wonderful in there  
but   you know i that  
i didn't base everything on that  
that's right  
that's exactly right  
you get some kids in there  
and it's   over quick  
but um   i've been real pleased knock on wood  
i'm scared to death her going to public school  
i don't know  
i  
i do know why because   you know   drugs and   everything else  
and   they talk about how soon they start that  
and that scares me  
i mean you're just with them  
yeah  
they've um they've had police officers come in   and talk to them about it  
but of course they still have no concept of   what in the world drugs are you   know  
but  
right  
but i just think of her you know  
next year she's going to be five six years old in kindergarten in same school with you know uh i guess ten year olds  
isn't that   six sixth sixth grade you know  
and that's a big gap  
and that's uh that i can honestly see the peer pressure there  
and that   just   [terrifies] me to death and stuff  
those kids getting [snatched]  
and   i'm i'm probably a little too over protective  
but   well nowadays you have to be  
if  
so i at first thought you know when i didn't have kids  
i was going god how can you be so protective you   know  
but it's easy now  
yeah  
definitely  
that's exactly right  
and i do  
but anyway  
well are you ever are you are you are you married  
are y'all planning on having kids  
or  
well that's good  
because they're really neat  
it's just  
no  
i don't  
do you  
uh_huh  
did you ever have her in child care  
uh_huh  
and how did you choose that sitter  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
really  
it's hard to find people like that  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well that's neat  
yeah  
do they have classes for them during the summer too  
huh  
yeah  
what kind of questions did you ask about the private sitter before you took her over there  
uh good  
i'm glad to hear that  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
did you did you [introduce] your daughter to her before you made   your decision  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
get a real job full time  
so what made you decide to put her in a montessori school  
uh_huh   yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's   the true test  
yeah  
yeah  
that's good  
huh that   is good then  
no  
especially we're going to spend the next eighteen years   in school  
yeah  
really  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
i have a nephew  
he's a little brat  
he goes to a really crummy day school  
my sister's not real bright  
so but he he's always sick  
i mean he has always got some kind of   cold or something  
and i don't know  
i don't think this place is a very good place for him  
it's just kind of convenient  
and she's the kind that goes for convenience over anything else  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
i don't think she checks things out very well   which   really surprises me  
it is scary  
yeah  
i know  
i would be too  
yeah  
too many horror stories out there that   you know  
oh yeah  
that's right  
i think that's an ideal situation  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
is that where the  
over there off of like  
i'm not sure what the street is  
is it off of near country club  
and all  
yeah  
yeah  
i i   i've seen the signs  
but i've never actually seen the place itself you   know  
it's pretty set far back   off the road  
yeah  
definitely  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
there's a difference  
uh_huh  

yep  
that's right  
or you know or a car accident  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
because that all wears off  
yep  
really  
i would be too  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
it is scary  
do they teach them in school right now where she's at about drugs  
good  
right  
right  
and what to do when they're faced with it  
yeah  
it is  
uh_huh  
oh i can   see it too  
uh_huh  
nothing wrong with that  
yes  
you do  
i don't i don't think there's anything wrong with that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now you understand  
that's what i'm thinking what your mom and dad always used to say when you have kids of your own   you'll understand  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah we'd like to  
yeah  
okay um  
i have two children  
and they're older now  
but um i found it very difficult to find good child care when i was looking for a place to for stay while i thought school  
and um i wanted when they were very young when they were babies say till they were about two years old i preferred that they had an individual take care of them in a home  
and that's what i looked for  
and i was lucky enough to find one right across from my school  
and that worked  
yeah  
that worked out real well  
but when they got older i wanted them to be in a school type situation three i think they were both three when they started where they could learn to interact with kids and   and be around kids their own age because i think that's that that would prepare them for school also it's real important   that they do that um that they get that preparation for school  
so  
but i had  
i have switched schools several times because i i really didn't care for what was going on at that the school  
i wanted them to learn to play i didn't academics forced on them at an early age  
yeah  
for the for the kids  
yes  
uh_huh  
okay  
oh  
wonderful  
oh  
great  
um  
great  
oh that's wonderful  
yeah  
that's wonderful  
oh  
great  
right  
oh that's   wonderful too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's wonderful  
oh dear  
sure  
yeah  
oh you know that's an ideal situation  
but not many people can afford   something like  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
right  
sure  
oh i do to  
oh yeah  
but they're they're are just so many people out there that aren't that uh   lucky uh  
uh because i'm a single parent  
and i uh you know my husband and i ex husband and i got a divorce um when the children were small  
and so i uh was a teacher  
i uh still am teacher  
and it was really difficult to find affordable child care that was that was what i wanted   where i could   have piece of mind and when i taught school  
and i knew my kids were being taken   care of  
yeah  
and uh plus i i uh wanted them to get something out of it   i just didn't want it to be a day where they went and slept and ate cookies and   that's it  
uh_huh  
right  
sure  
well  
i agree with that  
well the thing is   i teach this grade and i i can see very readily the kids that didn't never learn socially how to get along with other   children  
and they're the ones that are having problems not only getting along with the other kids but academically   because they were not they're should be there's to many things in their way  
and so i want my  
i wanted my children  
and they did learn to get to get along with other people  
yeah  
and i mean i feel a lot of [maladjusted] adults  
and i bet if we trace back to their   early childhood we could see some you know times they didn't get to play or be with other kids their own age really learn how do get along with   people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i bet you could too   because it you know kids have to learn how to get along with other people  
and if they don't they just don't turn out to be really you know good adults or   successful adults i should say  
you know really  
but uh it is a big problem  
and you i have lot of friends right now that uh have young children  
and they daily have problems with with whoever is taking care of the child  
or they switch a lot which is not good for the child either  
so you need  
cause you need that consistency when they're young like that  
and it would be ideal like you you hope when you have children   your wife gets to stay home  
i would have have given anything if i would have been able   to stay home with my children  
yeah  
you  
right  
oh great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's   wonderful  
oh great  
um   you're very wise  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
oh don't they though that's what i have right now   thirteen and a sixteen year old  
oh it is  
they really are expensive  
yeah  
exactly  
well and they  
most of the area where we live in most of the kids have cars  
so you know right now i'm looking for a little truck for my for my son  
so that you know an older older older truck  
so i can afford it  
but you know i i just look forward to him helping me out because i for years just car   drove in carpools all over the place  
and   and it will be nice just to be able to have him say will you go to the store will you take his sister somewhere   something like that  
right  
exactly  
right  
that's right  
it does for ever  
and then when you get through with your own you've got grandchildren  
so  
it's not ending is it  
you think we've talked a long a long enough time  
oh they come in see this is the first time i've done this  
oh in ten minutes you have to talk that long  
uh_huh  
oh  
i see  
i see  
are you from the  
where are you from  
oh my gosh i'm from uh plano texas which is which is outside of dallas  
yeah  
because that's where t i is  
that makes sense  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i um  
that that's  
oh oh you mean you switched schools for the kids  
uh_huh  

well i'm just recently married  
so i don't have any children   though we plan on having them soon  
but i think um that i that that's probably one of the biggest difficulties uh  
i think um i'm lucky though that um my wife will probably not have to work while our children   are under four   or five  
yeah  
i'm a college professor  
so  
and that's also  
and it's nice for me because um most of the time you have so so much flexible hours so that i could probably work two or three days a week   and then one or two evenings   so that if my wife does um does go back to work part time um there probably will be a possibility that i could stay home two days that she would go to work and that i would have to teach at night  
yeah  
so it will probably workout real nice for us uh  
i think we're very lucky because just my job sort of builds in flexible schedules  
i can even teach on saturdays and   and things   like that  
yeah  
um i do know that my brother and his wife have a terrible time finding uh child care  
and one of the things they made in um uh  
real  
they're number one priority was that um they're children didn't have to leave their home  
so   they um um  
my sister in law is a uh um a [clinical] speech [pathologist]  
so she is  
i guess her most recent position after she returned back to work she applied for a [director's] position and got it  
so i guess she's very well qualified for her field i guess  
and even though she took off two years for um  
i guess four years all together  
it would be three years  
how old's [kayla]  
three yeah  
i guess she took off three years all together um for cause i guess they have a four year old  
and yeah and my nephew is two almost two  
so i guess she took off three all together  
and then when she decided to go back to work um she was able to find good position and pay for somebody to come into their home  
yeah  
i think they were really lucky there  
but i think they've lost this woman she she will not continue  
and and she won't do it in the summer because her kids are home from school  
so i don't know what they are going to do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think   i think they they're both they were both professionals unlike me they're um they were married my brother's five years younger then she is  
so she was probably twenty seven when they were married  
so she already had had gotten [bachelors] and masters and established herself in a   in a practice almost   um where you know he then they waited a couple years  
and and he got himself pretty far along i guess they didn't have kids until he was about twenty twenty six  
so by that time she was so well established you know   i guess it made it a lot easier  
but uh i think the longer you wait the easier the easier it is   if you have that that professional occupation where you can change  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
that's true yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
yeah  
definitely   were safe  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
that's you know that's so important i um i i guess it's so funny now with schools you know they don't take kid into kindergarten and when i guess when they're five  
and sometimes they [flunk] kindergarten now  
they don't let them into kindergarten unless they can count to ten and know their a b c  
and i think that's so funny because um i don't i don't know if i want  
school's very important i'm an [educator] myself and my wife teaches  
and i  
it's a very important part of your life  
and i hope to read with my kids  
but i don't know if i want my kids to go to school at four   or three  
you know i can see that when you make that point  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's a really important point  
yep  
i think that's really that's important  
i i've seen the same thing  
i i think you're exactly right because you know i've gone  
or  
before i was married i went out with a girl  
and you know um boy after you know after about two months i realize this girl really has some deep set emotional problems  
and i bet  
and they could be [traced] back to just not being uh you know being moved between day care centers when she was one and two and three years old   and never always being a bit [snippy] and [spiteful]  
i bet you could trace all the way back  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
that's true  
yeah  
that's really true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think i'm i'm very lucky  
um because of having you know flexible higher education provides a flexible schedule  

i teach a computer classes  
so   it's it's one of things where i'm paid a little bit better then a history or an english professor  
and i'm also um you know  
they have [vocational] type courses on weekends   almost everywhere  
and you know you can take you can teach two three hours classes on a saturday   which means   that you know whole week's worth of courses  
so that lets you be available three days during the week   you know  
so you be will home with your kids i you know  
it's really funny is that i i picked this career when i was in college because uh i think with my commitment to family and um   wanting to spend more time with my children   because my dad had very um nine to five type job   with uh forty five minute commute into the city and a forty five commute home  
so by the time he got home he was so tired  
and he was all [rung] out from the day  
and i think he he missed a lot of um our up bringing  
you know my mother  
i i came from a family that my mother stayed home until we started school  
um and i i don't uh  
it's funny i don't think she had to work until we started school i think teenagers become much more expensive  
it's probably costing you a fortune  
my goodness if if you want them to be able to drive the car the insurance bill  
um  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
carpools uh  
yeah  
my parents did a lot of that  
that's right  
yep  
and just to save you trips to and from   you know uh ball games and athletic events   and activities at the school  
yeah  
isn't that something how you know you think about child care  
and it lasts along time  
it it lasts a long time  
well normally they come in uh   oh oh cause they'll come in in ten minutes normally and stop us  
well you don't have to  
but they   they  
um you go the length  
and sometimes if it's a very busy time period you'll go about seven minutes  
depends on how old the tapes are at that time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
this is baltimore maryland  
yeah  
well most of most of the people i talk to are from texas  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i've discussed   i've discussed um  
so child care your views  
and what religious faith  
oh   that's that's good  
uh they do seem to be at the outside edge of both extremes don't they  
and   whenever they are they seem to regulate the good toward the bad instead of bad toward the good  
better situations  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's very well [phrased]  
uh so have you ever used outside child care  
real day care  
uh  
our step daughter's ten now  
and most of the day care has been provide for by grandma  
but quite honestly what i believe to be the best day care situation was while we lived up the pass of [woodland] park   there was uh ex school teacher that uh did a small amount of before school and after school you know kindergartners or half [dayers]   in her home  
and they would read and play  
seem to be  
uh yeah  
and uh despite our beliefs she was uh one of the more uh charismatic christian [faiths]  
and it worked out wonderfully  
uh yeah  
but i don't know that it would be state approved  
i  
now i don't know what the current texas laws are  
but i but i do know that the license doesn't seem to uh guarantee quality  
uh now here i believe that child care meets by in large certain standards for uh balanced food if they provide food cleanliness and levels of supervision   levels being defined as number of working adults for number of children  
but   yeah  
uh my wife is uh [agnostic]  
and i'm uh a [backsliding] presbyterian  
and uh get i really believe that this charismatic care or the charismatic belief when emphasized on care or semi charismatic i might say   was quite good  
yes  
very  
and and uh the care is what i guess you should emphasize in the term child care instead of the child  
and not have any care  
and i'm not sure that really child care per se should instill any education per se  
do you know had a i'm saying  
proper interface  
it's just just [correctness] of of social skills if you will  
uh yeah  
uh it's a very broad issue  
and you know it's a shame  
but most people doing child care earn almost no money  
they operate at you know  
the owner of the of a you know a large child care facility now  
we're not talking somebody that does six kids   in their home or three or whatever  
right  
their employees earn almost nothing  
and that's really really a shame too because  
do you and your husband both work  
well that's wonderful if if you can make it that way  
well   like i said   that's grand if if you can pull it off  
but more and more we're being forced into a situation we as americans are being forced into a situation where you've got to have  
uh well we only have one child right now and another one on the way  
and right now i'm i'm all with her during the day  
i  
if i was looking for outside care i probably would stay away from professional child care centers and try to find if i was close to home relatives or people with it is same values and possibly religious faith or something similar so that she would be raised in an environment that would be similar to what we would have in our own homes as as parents  
uh latter day saints  
so   so that's what i would try to do  
with a teaching background i've um had a little bit of experience with the child day care type situations  
but i've seen some good ones  
and i've seen some really bad ones  
uh_huh  
and everything in between yeah in most states there's nothing to regulate them  
and so  
right  
by trying to get them to conform to concern standards they uh kind of uh eliminate a lot of the uh  
yeah  
the the uh  
what am i trying to think of that not the imagination but the creativity in in the situation  
and so  
no  
i haven't  
we've had like people come in and baby sit for an hour or two  
but i've never had um  
right  
she's she's not even a year yet  
so   we haven't been in you know a lot of need yet  
uh_huh  
i like that situation that's usually real good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
have a relative a structured   activities and not just you know stick them in a corner and say you're on your own  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know that uh that i guess if you have the opportunity to pick and choose and you've got the time and that uh i don't know if the resources are the proper term you know just the the know knowledge of who's a available then you could probably find some really good care  
that's true  
you can get somebody maybe willing to baby sit  
but actual you know that's sometimes different done on a different scale  
i have even considered you know baby sitting myself i have a teaching degree and uh thought well you know i could structure and then for one reason or other decided not to  
but i think if you take more than three children in well  
that was how it was this virginia we've recently moved here to texas but in virginia i think if you take more than three children in on more than a several hours a day bases you have to be licensed  
yeah  
a lot of times you might just need to go now and feel file for it just like a business  
you may not have to prove any type of qualification for it i don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's uh kind of a minimum there that you're getting  
your covering basic care there and not all the extras that most people would like to see done with there children you know like the educational activities the supervised play and so forth  
i like that term  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it was a good influence for your daughter uh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
a little bit of love and and attention is what most of them need  
you know even if it's not a real educated program you can have good educational program  
and and  
right  
and and that's not certainly what you want for your child or what you would give your child yourself  
and so  
well even educated play uh supervised play can teach without  
and i'm not saying talking about sitting down and teaching them math or or or something like that but just kind of promoting social skills  
and uh uh you know like my my child that  
she want be an only child for long  
but you know she was an only child  
or maybe your daughter   not having  
yeah  
yeah  
just  
right  
those basic things that uh they would that you know you would be a little bit of uh i don't know if [manners] is a good term or not but   you know dealing with other through proper [mannerisms] and politeness and so forth you know that sort of thing you'd want your child to learn that from the experience of someone else certainly you wouldn't want your child's day care person to yell at them and scream at them and say do this do that you know you'd want them it promote politeness and [niceness] you know the things that you would want any child to learn  
and   the reason  
that's done through example you know not an actual sit down learn situation  
so  
uh_huh  
it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
somebody that doesn't really put a lot of overhead whatever into it  
you mean somebody that has an actual establishment  
yeah  
yeah  
i know i i did that for summer  
so i can i can vouch for that  
no  
just he does i'm i'm here during the day with her  
well we we decided to  
we live on a lesser budget so that we have  
that that's more important to us you know as as uh there may come a time when i will be working again you know  
but right now that's what we've chosen  
and we wanted to have several  
we got her  
and we've got another on the way   and maybe another   one soon after that  
so  
right  
okay  
what kind of  
do you have children  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
and you had trouble finding somewhere for him to be before he was five  
uh_huh  
right  
but  
uh_huh  
to learn something  
and that's i mean that's  
even not only [toddlers] but you know even your older children  
it's hard to find anywhere they're really going to learn something  
and then yeah  
you do have to pay you know if you  
the better the place the more you're going to pay  
true  
very true  
it's  
uh_huh  
if i had any children i would uh i hope that i'll be in a position to stay home with my child because i'm not real uh uh trusting of a lot of people   uh especially today  
people  
i work in the news business  
and i just see different things all the time  
and people are just crazy these days  
they're crazy  
and   and i don't you know  
it takes me a takes me a long time to just trust someone as a friend   much less to you know trust someone with my with my child  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i guess that's the best way you know to get   recommendations from your friends or   family members  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean you have to be you've got to be sure   that these people  
i mean not that they're going to abuse your child or anything   but you just have to be sure that they're going to be watching them you know   that they wouldn't let them drink something or you know eat something off the floor   you know  
just simple things   that can be harmful  
uh_huh  
huh  
then you hear so much you know on the news about uh child care places  
and also um senior care facilities you know you hear abuse  
yeah  
and so you just you just don't know  
and you almost want to you know spend a couple of weeks with in class with your child just to see how it is or something  
but  
no  
i don't  
huh_uh  
no  
i'm  
uh no  
i'm only i'm twenty three  
so i   still have a little bit of time  
um it's just not in the cards for me right now  
i'm trying to get my career going  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and you brought up a good point you know   about learning  
you just don't want a baby sitter  
you you would hope that maybe they'd come home and know some of their a b c's or something you know  
get them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
did you take this same uh route with your other two children  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i was wondering how  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and it helps that he has older brothers uh   you know just to have role models and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's excellent  
uh_huh  
well what kid isn't   these days  
so  
uh_huh  
do they have any kind of program like at t i or wherever your wife works um   some in kind of day care  
huh because i know they're they're putting that into a lot of uh corporations now  
right  
so maybe that will be an option for  
but then i i foresee that being just a baby sitting thing not much learning but you know   kind of somebody to just watch your kid while your at work  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
do you think it would have been better for him to have um maybe one continuous teacher somebody to that he could uh   get attached to  
or is it better the other way with a lot of different  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
huh  
right  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
each child is individual   in life learning and things  
uh_huh  
right  
well it sounds good  
sounds like he's doing real well  
huh  
good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and they'll probably sit him in front of the television   you know while they do other things  
yeah  
huh   yeah  
well that's good  
that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
right  
right  
that's probably what i'll try and look for whenever i do have my children  
i don't know when that will be  
but um you know just really look into  
it will it will take me a long time to find somewhere i'm sure   just because i i just want to be i want to be so positive that you know my children are okay   as well as the other children in the center you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
it's difficult these day  
it's it's a lot more difficult these days because you have both parents working a lot of times  
and so you have to find day care   whereas you know here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no choice  
so child [care's] a necessity whereas years ago you know the husband basically worked and the wife   basically stayed home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i think that has a lot to do with just just all children how they learn and things just because the basic family is is breaking you know  
the basic family is not there anymore  
uh_huh  
i think that plays a big part in in a child's learning and you know what they can and cannot do in child care  
i don't think  
yeah  
we have one that's seventeen one that's fifteen and one that's just now six  
and we had kind of a hard time finding someplace we could put michael's goods  
his birthday is the first of september  
and he was going to school at five  
so he started the first grade when he was five  
or   started  
yeah  
first grade when he was five years old  
yeah  
so we could you know  
we tried to find him someplace where he could learn something  
and it was uh   mediocre expensive  
it wasn't really that expensive  
but it's really hard to find someplace where you can send your child and expect him to learn something  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
but parents pay when they stay home with them anyway  
you know my wife works  
so   it costs us more for her to stay home more than it does for him to go to the baby sitter  
so we try to  
yeah  
see i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well see we took our time  
and we checked it out  
and we found a preschool for him  
and it you know  
through other folks where i where i work  
i work at t i  
so through other folks where we worked we found a nice preschool  
it was actually at a licensed preschool   you know  
we had those requirements  
so  
yeah  
i know  
i'm  
well  
that  
and you know i don't think i would have left him anywhere that would  
i would have stayed home with him first   before i left him somewhere that you know  
they still have [unlicensed] baby sitters running around up here  
and   you know i just i i don't think i'd take that chance  
you know i think it's out of sight or out of mind   for less than   for more than   a minute or so  
but you never know  
yeah  
yeah  
but you you know  
as   as far as child abuse is these days you never know  
you don't know who you can trust   and who you can't you know  
yeah  
senior care is getting real bad  
yeah  
so you have no children at all  
gee  
do you miss that part in your life  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i imagine  
yeah  
working in the news production  
anyway back to the subject  
we should have discussed this earlier  
but anyway it's tough  
it really is  
it's hard to find good child care  
and it's hard to find someplace where you can leave your child and trust that he's   going to be fine all day long  
and  
yeah  
you know and he's he's doing real well  
it it it has paid off for him  
he's in first grade now  
and he's you know got a second grade reading level and a fourth grade math level  
so you know those early ages when he would you know when his mom and dad are at work   and he's actually in child care in a preschool not   just child care   you know we could have sent him to anybody   you know  
there's a lot people at work that would have baby sat him but sending him to a preschool where he actually learns something   has paid off not only for us  
his his attitude is i think a little bit   tall for a six year old  
and you know but his  
um they they were outside my marriage  
so i don't know  
i would say no  
but you know all my children   excel  
they're they're really good  
and i guess no  
he learns from the older boys too  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
seeing  
like uh in one way we're kind of lucky because they're all boys  
but in another way we're not so lucky because we don't have another woman in the house for my wife to share  
but you know  
so we faced that too  
but   he learns quite a bit  
he learned quite a bit from not only from nursery school  
but he learned quite a bit from the older boys  
and you know he's excelled  
and it's paying off for him  
it really is  
he's   he is pretty smart  
sometimes he's a little bit smart [mouthed]  
but he is smart you know  
yeah  
but i think it's important i think it's really nice to know that you can find someplace  
i don't know you know how it is down there in waco  
but in lubbock we have a few that you can send your children to  
and they can actually learn something instead of just being baby sat  
and  
no  
not in  
huh_uh  
we just  
yeah  
they're trying to  
the federal government is trying to [intercede] on that too  
so no  
we don't get  
well it would be nice you know there  
yeah  
there's not  
well  
you know where where we sent michael the first few years was there was different teachers all the time you know  
some   girls were there in the morning  
and then some substitute teachers in the afternoon  
and they actually taught him something instead of just watching him all day  
you know and then they had a group of kids  
and they put on [skits]  
and they put on plays  
and they did the halloween thing   and the [valentine's] day things  
and it's you know it was important to us  
so we you know we took a good look at it and made sure it was going to go that way  
um  
no  
because i think you know as a child growing up i think is a task that belongs to his parents  
i don't think he needed to be attached to too even though he did  
you know he attached himself to a couple of those  
but i think his [attachments] at home  
and you know he gets the idea of what school is for  
and uh you know i have different teachers   here  
and this person can teach me one thing and this person teach teach me another  
and no  
so i i i really can't say that it would be it's important for him to attach himself to anybody  
he did well  
you  
with with another child i can't say that   because i don't have that experience  
yeah  
see  
but i don't have that experience  
so i can't say that   you know he did well  
so i don't think we made too many mistakes  
we tried hard  
yeah  
he's doing real well  
and he learned from it  
so and that was the most important thing that we wanted was for him to learn not just to sit there and be baby sat all day  
you know baby sat sounds to me like well you're here i guess i'll watch you when i get time  
you know maybe i'll clean my house maybe i'll cook you lunch   maybe i won't you know  
and   yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and i don't you know   i don't allow that when he's at home  
so but we had a good experience  
and we really did well  
so and he did he served better than we did you know  
he gained he actually gained from it you know  
sure we gained from it   because we were allowed to continue our employment and   continue our family  
but i think in the long run he gained from it just being somewhere where we learned something   instead of just sitting around watching t v   and playing all day  
and it's important  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
well you know his mom didn't go back to work until you know when he was six months old  
and we just didn't want to dump him somewhere   and make him feel like he wasn't wanted  
and we wanted his center of attention at home  
but   we did what we could  
and it it worked out real well  
i'm glad   we were so careful  
oh yeah  
you know   well it  
most of the time now it's a necessity  
you can't afford  
so you know i'm not making seventy or eighty thousand dollars a year  
so   it's pretty tough  
yeah  
and   mom mom was allowed to stay home  
and   you know there was a few families outside of that where dad stayed home and mom worked but not very many that i know of when i was growing up  
and you know i'm forty now  
but you know when i was a kid mom was always at home  
so we didn't  
yeah  
it is  
yeah  
it is  
i'll agree with that it is  
it's it's not there  
yeah  
okay  
i do have friends that have children  
yes  
they  
i think that's correct  
there uh relatively nonexistent from uh from what i hear from my friends  
it seems like uh even when they have [consulted] day care centers that are quote unquote reputable that are sort of like a chain if i can use that word   uh still you have to deal with the people that you know happen to be operating it locally  
and uh it's just a matter of of trust you know  
i think they feel that these people are um under qualified basically and underpaid  
and i think that sort of goes hand in hand  
so it's it's difficult for them  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
right  
right  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
i'm sure that's true  
huh_uh  
right  
right  
i do have a friend that uh uh  
she and her roommate became live in care givers  
and they loved it  
they had stayed with this family from the time these children were small you know four or five years old up until they were well into grade school  
and uh she was paid very well because they the parents trusted them  
and they you know had done such a good job  
so um i can see where someone you know in a position like that in a live in capacity would definitely be the way to go if you're you're lucky enough to have the financial to be able to do that  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it's just a matter of priorities  
it's uh you know it's a terrible thing to say when your speaking of children in that way  
but you still have to be realistic as well i think  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and that's that's that's bad to have to admit too  
but uh you know it's just there's so much pressure when you're talking about two people that work outside the home  
and and i think that is one reason why i continue to be without children  
i  
it's just such a responsibility and and when i've had friends that have said  
when you hear people say it it [alters] your life forever please take heed well  
i realize that's true  
so it's uh such a responsibility  
huh_uh  
oh yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
most of the time  
yeah  
oh sure  
sure  
sure  
sure  
right  
right  
right  
right  
but you know it's funny  
i did i had a friend that said you know before we always said we don't want children because we can't go off on the spur of the moment or this or that and the other  
and she got older  
and she said but you know we never do those things anyway  
so why why am i waiting you know  
it's it's just the way your attitude changes  
and you mature i suppose  
but the thing about the child care i you know i have friends that struggle financially and and they both do have to work  
it's a matter not necessarily uh that she might want to stay home or he as well  
but you know they need the money  
and uh when i seen some of my friends that have taken that six week old baby you know to someone else it's just i can imagine how emotional it must be and and you know [multiplied] by the fact that you don't really trust the person or you're uncomfortable with the situation as far as child care um  
it's just a scary thing  
huh_uh  
that's a big plus  
right  
right  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
i think it takes a  
i don't know  
i think your patient level must needs to increase as the child gets older  
i think that might be part of the problem with some people you know  
taking care of a baby i know is not an easy thing  
but when you have them in their their little feet are moving  
and you have to chase them down constantly  
i'm sure that's a whole new ball game  
oh really  
well you sound like your pretty well passed the worst of it as far as worrying about  
since they're both in school you don't have to worry about a full time person to take care of them  
that's something altogether different uh  
huh_uh  
oh of course not  
you can't do that  
no  
no  
no  
that's out of the question  
i'm sure  
right  
right  
right  
right  
huh_uh  
that's amazing  
it's amazing that people actually  
the stamina that you must you know draw from yourself to deal with it  
it must be interesting  
i guess you find out that you're a much stronger person than you thought maybe  
huh_uh  
now it's just a reservoir that you tend to regularly i'm sure  
well are your children now  
do you feel comfortable um with them coming home after school until you and your wife get home  
or  
no  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's just a difference in kids i suppose  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
and it's it's the one that's going downhill  
is it is it the one that needs needs more supervision that has a bad influence on the older or more mature one  
yeah  
how unfortunate  
well i i i'm living in a dream world  
what do i know  
as i said i don't have kids  
and i'm an only child  
so i've never been around children  
so uh i'm sort of at a loss where that's concerned  
but i do hear my friends talk about it  
huh_uh  
yeah  
that's like world war three every minute  
i don't know  
i i i have to admit i was selfish as a child  
i didn't want a brother or sister  
and now that i'm older of course it's different  
you know i think about uh wouldn't it be nice  
but uh anyway  
yeah oh  
i have wonderful friends  
that's true  
my best friend is one child of ten  
and so they just sort of you know adopted me as their eleventh child  
so that worked out pretty well  
she never had to worry about taking anybody to child care because there was always somebody there older to deal with them  
so i guess that's an alternative  
if you could just um   have a whole bunch  
by the time the youngest ones are there you'll have older one to take care of them  
i don't know  
when you see all these horror stories on television about child care  
and gosh  
i just  
i was seeing something on the television earlier about a little girl that's been telling her mother these terrible stories  
and of course people are [denying] it  
and uh it's just frightening  
it really is  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
all right  
uh do you have any friends that have children  
and what do they say about finding adequate child care  
i think that may be the key word  
right  
well we certainly found that to be true  
uh indeed we've  
our children are now eleven and nine  
and we moved away from [institutionalized] child care   if we can call those chain kind of things   like that uh by that name   and found that uh more creative avenues were the right answer for us  
uh at one point in time we've had au pairs   by trading services with them  
and that worked for a while  
but they were really adequate ones were really tough to find  
it takes that mixture of a very mature college student   who wants to do something and yet is willing to give the time   and the interest to the children  
well that's true  
and that's something that we're struggling with now  
oh yeah  
much as other cultures disagree our lives don't revolve around our children  
well it certainly is uh  
if i can the other side of the coin for a moment  
it is such an honor and a thrill   to be a parent   that most of the time it's worth it  
well i just have to be honest about it  
it's not always   worth it  
there are those times when i think gee if i didn't have children i could be out playing bridge or golf  
well we were lucky when our children were that age  
and having lived in a community for a while and we knew the person to whom we were [entrusting] our children  
and felt that that   and feeling of safety  
and were leaving them small children  
but we also learned something from that experience as our children got older  
it's that care givers are not [omniscient]  
they are not all things to all people   or all children  
the ones that are good with babies tend not to be good with [toddlers]  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i have a nine year old that i would trade happily for a baby  
oh you don't know what happens after they get in school  
oh yes  
now we have uh one takes piano lessons   somewhere on one afternoon  
and the other one of course can't do the same thing  
it has to be somewhere else  
and no  
it's not adequate to sit and wait  
no  
that just  
that will not do  
of course  
but we are helping you know  
we are being cooperative  
what's wrong with you  
you don't understand this  
that's just the way their minds work  
and it's almost everyday  
well i've been finding out that i really am a nice person  
hit for many years  
because i didn't need it  
and now i need it  
yeah  
and it stays low a lot  
absolutely not  
i mean one of them i would i would leave [unsupervised] any time any place any where  
uh the other one i wouldn't leave [unsupervised] two minutes  
that's true  
what  
one leads the other  
and uh  
of course  
you don't think you don't think that good [prevails]  
we we're having such fun  
my wife and i were both only children  
and we just couldn't wait to have two children so they would be such friends  
wrong  
just make good friends  
have enough  
that's true  
well what what's frightening is a parent to see things that that you don't really don't understand  
and then you don't really know what happened  
we gave up on one baby sitter because we came home one night and found pieces of um ribbon   you know hair ribbon   tied in a chair where obviously she had had  
well we're just starting a family through adoption  
so i don't really have a lot of uh concrete uh opinions  
just what i know out of my peer group uh has gone through  
and none of it has been good  
yeah  
uh the ones that can afford to have live in nannies   they seem to be having an okay time  
uh but a lot of the other ones that have are professional uh  
i'd say fifty percent of you know my peers that i'm in my circle of friends have tried it and then stopped working until they're you know going to get their children in kindergarten or first grade  
uh but i  
there must be some good service out there if you   really look and pay for it  
in terms of what they're talking about  
oh  
infant uh  
infant  
yeah  
after eleven years of marriage yeah we are  
we're actually it's happening now  
so we're just going through the process  
so and actually the question is uh very appropriate  
cause i'm not sure whether uh how strong the maternal instinct is going to be  
they tell me it's going to be strong  
do you   have children  
and did you put him in daycare  
or is he older now or younger  
or  
sure  
so he's out of daycare  
you  
uh_huh  
oh  
flex  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that's wonderful  
right  
that's wonderful  
yeah  
and and i guess uh because of your um your uh profession  
i mean i uh i'm in corporate communications  
but i've done free lance writing in the past  
so what we're hoping is that uh  
i mean my husband thinks i can do it  
i've just never worked out of a domestic base you know  
i've always   been in a corporate uh environment  
uh but i'm hoping that possibly i can do something where i can go [flextime] or part time  
or if they don't have that uh  
my boss  
i'm very lucky though again too my boss is very [akin] to family building  
so i think that's something that couples need in going   into this  
uh i don't know  
i do think there's good daycare out there  
what part of the country are you in  
you're in maryland  
right  
that's what i'm hoping  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
you were   fortunate  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
so do you think that i mean do you think that that was in a way though good good [objectivity] that that doesn't really  
that's not a correct english  
but you know   in a sense you see what i'm saying though  
from a mother's standpoint i mean in a way it was quote and unquote good [objectivity]  
uh_huh  
see  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
and then he learned he he also learned that uh there were times that you had to be gone so you probably [minimized]  
well we're actually uh we're getting ready  
i mean you're far enough away now i can tell you since this is locally i make sure we're going to romania in a few weeks  
and that's uh just  
romania  
as in like what twenty twenty and uh but we we're real excited because we've just developed a contact   through professional people  
and it's private  
and it's hospital  
it's we're just very excited  
uh   and what's the word i'm looking for  
when you deal with issues like that uh in terms of family building through adoption uh and then you have people responding to you well if you go through that why would you put them in daycare  
uh issues are being raised [prematurely] in my mind  
but i guess they're not because it's something i'll have to deal with sooner than later  
uh and i what i've learned to do is just tune out everybody's opinion  
i feel that if the child is healthy uh and as long as we make it feel secure i'd love to do something like with what you did  
uh i don't think i could be [dumper] where i could take it from you know eight in the morning till nine at night or six at night and leave it there  
uh maybe after two or three or years old  
i don't know um  
yeah  
well they need a schedule i think  
i don't think the united states  
what country were you uh in europe when you were uh uh  
uh that's  
well that's the same thing  
i mean i don't know how they are there  
but uh in eastern europe  
my [stepfather's] from england  
it just seems the united states does not provide for either child care or or [elder] care as i call it  
uh and we're just not set up for that  
uh with the  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
see i think that's wonderful  
to  
right  
we cast off  
right  
right  

i'm that way  
yeah  
right  
it's easier  
and i agree with that  
that's why i   you know  
what is amazing to me is now your son is already grown  
but you can probably [empathize] with this  
it's amazing to me how [forthcoming] people are with their opinions and thoughts  
in terms of what to do uh  
and i just don't think there is a day a good daycare system  
uh my company i'm particularly fortunate that they have they're in tune with that  
but i've been at companies where uh you know the the the trend is or the definite mood is well we made conscious decisions not to have children  
you know  
and in  
and a couple like us building through adoption there it's almost radical to some people  
and what you just learn to do is tune everybody else out  
and uh i respect there are some women that i know that are divorced or on their own or in single parenting and men that they you know they may have the need for child care like that  
but i agree with you that it's just i call it dumping  
i i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
then yeah  
it's   in [tandem] then  
i just uh  
and there are trade offs too i think  
one of the things that is a problem is that uh in terms of compensation to some of the child care providers  
uh it's just you know it's so low  
but yet the overall cost for somebody doing it on a daily or even a weekly basis it's prohibitive  
and some people that are not making more than twenty thousand a year   uh  
really  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
and they  
yeah  
i haven't thought about that  
yeah  
and actually my neighbor has an eighteen month old  
and she's at home part time paralegal  
so i'm thinking um  
and we get along [fantastically]  
so i'm thinking you know  
and that's the way you have to uh  
how  
i'm just real curious  
how was the middle east in terms of that with children  
is that is child care or that type of idea completely foreign to them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
he must be smart  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the professional  
yeah  
i was wondering about that  
uh there  
i'm in dallas  
and there was just a very big uh series about [moslem] women  
and   there were enlightening things that broke some of my stereotypical thoughts  
i'm [digressing] here  
but uh i was just real curious when you said middle east if you   didn't mind me asking  
oh no  
that's okay  
well even if you did that's okay actually  
i think  
right  
right  
they fight  
they work  
oh really  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
what what age child are you thinking in terms of  
no  
for for yourselves  
oh okay  
so you're starting from the from the [baseline]  
i see  
right  
i have one son  
well he's he's now eighteen and in in you know has completed a couple of years of university  
i  
right  
and and so that  
but i was working full time uh   when he was born  
but i was very lucky because i was a a college professor  
and so i was able to you know  
and i it was   walking distance from from   my apartment  
so i went up there  
and i sort of left him with with a neighbor  
and i left him in a carry [cot] when he was very little  
and i said you know he doesn't need anything except you know look at him if he [cries]  
but you know don't pick him up and and   this sort of stuff  
because i was gone only an hour at a stretch or an hour and a half  
and i was able to you know get his schedule just uh [cooperated]  
and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i'm in maryland  
but but i was out of the country when uh my my son was little  
but but the thing is if you have this [flextime] and that you might be able to do something similar to what i did   which is   you know be there short times  
and then later on when he was you know  
i mean this  
we're talking about uh i went back to work and or taught some some classes like a week after he was born  
and so  
yeah  
and so that's when i was   saying you know don't don't pick him up and stuff  
but then later what i did was i brought a woman into the house  
and she she was supposed to help me a little bit with cooking and doing the baby's laundry and this sort of stuff  
and then i also came home and sort of was able to see from a distance what she was doing  
and you know in a sense she she carried him around a lot too much uh you know   for for my taste  
it was constantly no i don't want him   to explore anything  
he might uh he might hurt himself  
i think it worked out very very well  
because what he learned to do by the time he was   two or so he would sit next to the desk where i was grading papers or   writing lesson plans  
and he had asked for a paper and you know sort of [scribble]  
and then he realized that there   were quiet times  
and there were active times  
oh  
did you say romania   or [armenia]  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
oh good  
oh great  
oh that's silly  
uh_huh  
right  
oh i in my opinion it's even than  
i mean   your kids need you  
no  
i was in the middle east  
right  
right  
i  
yeah  
no  
i was just going to say i guess uh my [sensitivities] are are much more with the you know to be at home  
because actually i had   my grandmother with me from the time she was from the time she was ninety two until she died at ninety seven  
and i mean that was recently after my son was going off  
and i mean yes  
in a sense i went to work  
and she was at home alone some of the time  
but but still you know it was much better than being shipped to   a daycare center   you know which is much my feelings on kids and the elderly  
i think we're we're too too much towards it's somebody   problem you know  
i want to work  
shove them in in some school for twelve hours a day  
yeah  
right  
right  
and that's sad   right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
i i think that certainly there is a role uh for this type of help  
and and as long as one can can supervise it and and you know make it work in into one's own schedule without it seeming like dumping or   or or uh giving it you know the whole job to somebody else to take care of  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
actually there seems to be an alternative in my neighborhood  
is  
there seem there are several mothers who stay home  
and they take you know  
it's probably not completely legal  
uh i  
maybe it's legal up to one or two additional kids  
but and they they take care of another child  
and i i can actually could name five or six people around my neighborhood that really do a good job on this  
and i mean that's another possibility  
and you know you might want to stay home one year  
and some other lady might want to stay home for a a few years  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
well actually there was a daycare center uh where my son did go for a year  
i think from when he was two to three  
but then he actually started kindergarten at age three  
and so and you know it wasn't like [prekindergarten]  
it was real kindergarten  
yeah  
so he he was ready to to go to school at that point  
but yeah  
they're they do have such facilities  
but for the most part uh with the extended family you know you can usually find somebody which is much like our neighbor   you know to sharing responsibility  
and i'm and also there aren't that many women who who who work  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
no  
and i didn't mean israel  
so you you assumed right  
well no  
because at first thought when i you know i said that not many people work i'm i'm thinking oh well she's going to you know because certainly in israel the women do work  
all right  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's the way we always were  
we always lived away from our family and relatives while the kids were growing up  
so well i guess we're going to talk about children today  
so you ready  
my children are all gone already  
they're they're all out on their own  
so uh do you want to start first  
do you work  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but yet most of the problems we hear  
of course maybe that's what we hear about is from organized and approved day care centers  
but maybe we don't hear about the other ones though that could be  
you know the individual [incidence] or something  
uh_huh  
how old   is your oldest  
oh well he's plenty big enough then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's the way with me  
i i worked four years one time  
but my last two children were uh both entering high school age  
and uh they were of course gone while i was working  
so it wasn't a problem i saw  
and i stayed home the rest of the time  
i so i didn't have that problem either  
now i have i  
my oldest daughter she has two children  
and they've been in day care uh  
she works full time  
it it's difficult  
but yet she's the type of person that i don't know if she'd be happy staying at home  
uh_huh  
she she surprised me though  
she's done a lot of things that i never thought she would do you know with with the family because she was the one that said she was never getting married and never going to have any children  
so she is she spends a lot of quality time i think when she is with with the children  
and uh they've used the day care most of the time  
they tried one once  
they had a lady come in  
and uh she she also had a small child she brought with her  
and it did not work out uh at all  
it she thought it was going to  
she was real excited because it was so much easier than taking the children out   in the morning  
but uh the lady called  
and her baby wasn't very old at the time and said she was having trouble  
and this baby is the is the most pleasant uh real pleasant baby easy to satisfy usually  
and and she was having problems with her  
and so she called and said things were okay settled down and was all right  
well my daughter decided to call them and check  
and things weren't okay  
her her one son was watching the [soapies]  
which she doesn't allow them to watch the [soapies]  
and the baby was in his crib with the door shut just screaming his heart out  
and the baby sitter was in the kitchen with her baby  
and so that ended that   episode  
and she was most upset uh over finding this  
so uh she they kind of had decided that the day care was better  
there's uh   more people involved  
more than one adult they  
and the age groups are separated  
and uh   uh_huh  
yes  
story time uh  
and the this one has been particularly nice  
it uh it kept track of what they did  
and they would tell the parents what they did that day  
you know if they said anything or did anything  
so it kind of kept them  
yeah  
i i always thought that if you were checking into a day care that you would be good to get references   uh on people that had been in that day care but was no longer there  
because they wouldn't have nothing to worry about saying you know  
if there was a problem they they would i think be more ready to tell you what it was  
they may not say anything  
and uh other than how else how do you judge other than from what others have uh what you see uh the cleanliness and that type of thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but it would be real difficult to pick you you know to find one and   decide  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it worked out good  
i'm going to i've decided i'm going to baby sit my two granddaughters  
since they'll be going back at the end of the month  
and so   i'm going to give it a try  
i i i sell avon and stanley products  
and i've got that worked out  
my husband he's retired  
so he's going to deliver my products  
so i'll do my orders and that by phone  
so um   i'll be able to keep that up a little bit  
but i   i think i'll enjoy doing  
yeah  
i i think i'll enjoy  
i i guess i kind of miss having a baby around   a kid around or something  
yeah  
right  
that's right  
well they do say you enjoy them more  
a some somebody said if they knew grandchildren where so much fun they would have had them first  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my daughter   always said she would not let me baby sit because you do hear grandparents complaining   you know   because they're stuck with their grandchildren so much  
but they're the ones that complain a lot are the first  
well she lives in utah  
so  
yeah  
okay  
let's do  
uh_huh  
okay  
no  
i don't  
i stay home most of the time  
but i know that it's very difficult to to find good help sometimes when and especially when your when you want your children to be taken care of  
um you know there's a  
my neighbor she tends children though  
and and um there's a big controversy whether they should have to um have a a a law to have them certified or or not  
and um you know there's pros and cons on both side of that  
because if they were then you kind of know that they had to go through some kind of testing   or some kind of something to be on get an okay seal  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh now usually when i have someone tend um  
my oldest tends for me now if i go somewhere  
but  
before  
he's almost a teenager  
yeah  
he's he's very good  
um but um before that i would i would use uh kids from our church  
and they did a good job   for me  
um but i've never had to leave them like in a day care center   or anything  
and i've been very lucky just be able to stay home  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's hard  
well some people aren't  
yeah  
oh is that is that right  
i think that's really important  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
oh uh_huh  
oh dear  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
i bet  
uh_huh  
well nannies have been an option uh  
but i know that at day care they have more of a a routine like maybe in uh   preschool would have where they have lessons and   so forth   and so on  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
gave you an idea of what your child   was progressing in or doing  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i think so because if they were still there you know they might not  
right  
right  
you can't really  
you can't really unless your child would be old enough to say something  
and usually they aren't at that age  
you know um   uh_huh  
well i know i uh about three years ago i i tended some children   and uh you know i i wondered if i would have to be certified  
or whether they'd just bring them  
and   and we got to where well we were just friends  
and so   they said no don't do that we'll just bring them  
and then if there was a problem  
and then we'd sit down   and talk about it  
but it never happened   to be a problem  
and and so things worked out okay  
and their kids played with my kids  
and it worked out well  
oh  
that's great  
oh uh_huh  
well that will be great  
yeah  
yeah  
i bet you'll have some great experiences with them  
yeah  
sure  
why not  
and and you know the grandparents uh i always hear it's always fun when you can send them home at the end of the day instead of having to   so   that's right  
well uh my husband's mother lives right over here  
and she takes care of them sometimes   for me  
and and just is a lovely lady  
and i've always appreciated when she's sat with them  
and  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
no  
i don't  
but i have nine younger brothers and sisters  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i would assume it's you know if you were looking for a day care center or something like that  
or probably even baby sitters would be the same thing  
yes  
i would think someone older  
and i would want to know if they've had any past experience with children  
uh_huh  
yes  
that's true also  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well um i did a lot of baby sitting when i was younger  
i'm twenty two now  
and i did most of my baby sitting when i was between the ages of thirteen and sixteen  
but um the only thing people ever asked me  
well of course they knew i came from a family with younger kids  
but they really didn't ask me if i was used to children or not  
the only other thing they asked me is what i would expect in pay  
you know and um i was pretty surprised because if i had a child and someone you know i would want to know i personally would ask for people that that person has baby sit for before  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
well see when um i first got my my first baby sitting job was pretty strange  
um this lady saw us at church  
and she was a you know she was a younger lady  
she didn't really know my mom  
she knew my mom by name  
and that was it  
and um she knew that i was one of the oldest girls in my family  
so she just asked my mom if i could baby sit  
you know she really didn't know my name or anything you know  
i thought that was pretty strange  
you know and she had two children  
one was still in diapers when i started baby sitting  
so um she pretty much you know just assumed that i would know you know how to handle them  
so i you know i enjoy kids  
and i get along with them very well  
so there's no problem  
but uh with today's world and the kids today uh there's no way i can't say that i would just ask someone you know that i didn't know like that to baby sit  
uh_huh  
that's true  
uh_huh  
oh i would be too  
oh my  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh i know  
um well i i obviously you've never had to look for a day care or anything  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
how did you [stumble] upon the day care center  
did you just look it up in a phone book  
or what was it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there is i would say most people would probably go by word of mouth  
uh_huh  
yes  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
then again did um money come into play with it at all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
well i take it since you selected this topic that you have children  
you don't  
my goodness  
so well i have two daughters  
and um they're past this they've been [latchkey] children for a while  
and they're almost where i can start saying they're you know young adults  
so i don't have to worry about child care too much anymore  
um we're supposed to discuss what criteria we would ask   or expect  
well if i were  
exactly  
exactly  
um i think my my top priority would be that it would be someone who would be responsible and someone that would actually like children  
uh_huh  
and i think that varies  
i think a lot of your criteria vary with the age of your child  
um you know it's it's once they get to a certain age it's almost more important that it's someone that can entertain your child as opposed to someone who's you know really really qualified   per se  
um with a with a baby definitely have to be someone who knows how to handle a baby and would know how to respond to an emergency  
so  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i my experience i baby sat a lot also at when i grew up  
and um coming from you know that background and the background as a parent now i think the reason that people don't ask a whole lot of questions is a a lot of times baby sitters  
i know i did this with my children  
it's you get somebody where you kind of know the family already  
and that gives you so much basic knowledge that you don't ask a whole lot of questions  
because i had three younger brothers and sisters myself  
so they they thought okay  
she knows how to how to treat children  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
oh i agree with you  
but there again she you know she knew knew of your family  
and she and she met in a safe setting such as church  
so she was going on those two instincts  
just the same i know myself  
i never  
and i was very very protective on who baby sat my children  
and and in it really shocked me  
because just about six months ago someone came to my front door rang the [doorbell]  
she had just moved in the neighborhood  
she had her daughter with her  
and the daughter was oh about a second grader  
and she was actively looking for people who would baby sit her child  
and i thought well she doesn't know me or my children from anything  
and it was i was almost more reluctant of letting my older children go baby sit for her because i didn't know her   then she was reluctant of letting strangers into her house  
so i mean people are so different  
well i did i did have um my my child uh in a day care for just a short time when my oldest was about two and a half  
and i worked just a part time job  
and uh in in those situations um what i did is i'd i went in  
and you know i made a few phone calls  
i went in and visited  
i asked questions such as how they would discipline a child  
um that was a concern with me  
um you know you you learn a lot by going in there  
and they they explain to you you know what their day consists of and what their general rules are  
and um that's you know that's as much as i know  
you probably could get really good feedback from a lot of other working mothers   you know that have done this over and over again  
but i  
go ahead  
um i think lots of people i i think i went by location for one thing  
i think most people do that  
i think you start out with the criteria of you know do i know of anything  
or do i know anyone who has their child in a day care  
and  
right  
right  
and then you know i mean even at that you have to consider the logistics of it  
you know i mean you're not going to take your child south of town if you work north   even if that's the best one in the whole wide world  
so there there are just so many considerations  
oh money is always a factor in my life   definitely  
i've never you know i've never had the luxury of not having that be a factor um even in something as important as day care  
i know if i didn't have that [stipulation] i would have done things differently   you know  
um montessori school would be something that i would have pursued  
but that's always a little bit more expensive than what i could look at  
um and i was very very fortunate in that i didn't have to do that on a full time basis  
so and and then when you get you know when you get into the full time basis day care  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh great  
great  
well my children are grown  
but they're teenagers  
so i have three children um fifteen ages fifteen seventeen and twenty  
and um about i guess about when the first when the youngest one was in kindergarten i started working at a preschool   and uh you know doing some work  
and then i i took a couple of years off and then went back as a music teacher in a preschool  
so   so i am around not a day care situation but in the you know in the child care environment  
so um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh it is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
in other words   there're more people  
yes  
yes  
that's that's an interesting point of view  
i uh you know  
seeing the children in the school the way i do i i mean i see the ones that we can always tell the ones that have not been around children at all   when they come in as three year olds   as opposed to the ones that have been in the program that started at twelve months maybe and were   were even in there one day a week   which is all our school provides for the you know   for the under three year olds  
but still they have an an opportunity to be with other children  
and it is true  
and uh i but i think that would but as far as looking for a place you know i the criteria i mean i think it's very important to have very caring people you know   to take care of   the  
in a school   if you're going to have the structure and you're going to have the large numbers you're going to need really  
yes  
yes  
yes  
it is  
yes  
that's right  
that maybe  
yeah  
that maybe have another salary in their family   that where they can do that  
and that's what i had the opportunity of you know doing  
and and i could concentrate on the creativity and and you know really having a lot of fun with the children and   and providing   them with a great atmosphere  
yeah  
and they have to be there at sometimes six o'clock in the morning  
which is  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
because people can't pay   to provide   and  
well ours is not you know ours is just is a church  
and so we we don't have the the expenses of a building you know  
we share the expense with the church  
but we don't have enough  
you know taking care of a whole building   and that responsibility  
so uh it is it is a lot different  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh you did  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's different than most people do it  
i mean   a lot of people do it really the reverse   and go to work after the children   are in school you know  
but uh  
yeah  
yes  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh dear  
oh dear  
oh how awful  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
oh  
oh gosh  
oh dear  
yes  
oh good  
yes  
okay  
i  
my children as a matter of fact are all grown now  
so i am   [assisting] them with their children   in their selections  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i myself really feel like the structured day care program is more successful in today's environment   than the one on one care is  
uh when my children were growing up i actually had them up and until they were in the preschool situation i had them in a in a home with a lady who kept two or three kids  
and i felt like that home environment was very important to them  
it was important to me  
and uh   i feel like that they they had that one on one that's so necessary at that age  
however   in today's environment   it may be more critical to have the ability to interact in large groups simply because that's the way our young people are are dealt with  
they're dealt with   in packages  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
oh absolutely  
without a doubt  
uh_huh  
i recently stopped by mcdonalds  
and i was sitting out in their little playground while my granddaughter was playing on the things and was visiting with another mother who was there with her children  
and she was telling me that she was given the opportunity to manage a day care center  
and of course she was she had just gotten her degree  
and she was so enthusiastic  
and she was excited about it  
and she was going to accomplish all of these things  
however uh when it came to hiring and staffing people who cared and who were willing to take care of those children and spend that kind of time the pay is minimal  
and it takes people with total and complete dedication who really don't want to make a living for themselves   in order to be in that environment  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well they ask   so much of those caretakers for the amount that that they pay  
they are to be there ahead of time you know  
they're there early to receive the kids  
that's right  
and then then they have to work until the shop until the place [closes] at six p m  
and then it's their responsibility to clean up and be prepared for the next day   because they don't have cleaning [crews] in most of those  
and uh she just had a terrible time keeping [sincerely] dedicated people simply because they could not live with a kind of hours and the salary  
uh and she  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
well i know that when my youngsters were small  
now my older son was adopted  
so he went into child care at two weeks  
and uh my younger son went into child care at six weeks  
so they were in that environment actually up until they became uh seven and nine  
and at that point i said look they have been given the [custodial] care that they need  
and the after hours care has been as good a quality as i can provide for them  
however they're going out into the school environment now  
they're under a lot of other influences  
i need to be here for them  
i need to be involved in their school because i want to be the one   who influences the way they develop  
so i quit working   after my kids started to school   and got involved in volunteer work in their private school so that i could help direct their their learning experiences and their development  
i i felt like that anybody who cared and loved the kids could change their diapers and feed them and [bathe] them   and hold them  
but when time came to direct their ability to make choices   to develop the kinds of things that that they're going to need to interact with other people i felt like i needed some strong influence there  
so i  
i know  
that's right  
once they get up in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i just felt very strongly about that  
and i i did not work as a matter of fact  
my son was in the second grade  
and when he started uh at [skyline] high school i asked him son when uh you know where do i go to sign up for the p t a  
and he said mom don't do that to me  
please don't do that to me  
so i knew it was time to go back to work  
but i feel very   good about spending those years with my boys  
uh and i was just really grateful i only had one bad child care experience  
it was in a home  
uh the care taker that they had had since they were infants just could not do it  
she was from um uh uh argentina  
and she was going back home  
and i couldn't just you know wait for eight three or four months and then bring them back to her  
so i had to find a new place  
and i put them in this home  
the kids cried when i took them  
the kids cried i could hear the kids crying when i went to pick them up  
they were always cranky and [irritable]  
so i just took off and went there one day  
and uh the children were left [unattended] in a room you know  
they they were not well cared for  
and uh   so it didn't take me long to take them out of that place  
but that's the only bad experience i had  
the rest of the time they stayed in la petite academy  
and i was very pleased with their development and their progress  
they learned a lot of things in those public environments that you just as soon they didn't learn  
but they're going to learn it sometime  
so   but for the most part they did have good care  
and it did appear to me that the people who cared for them had a good concern for them  
and in one particular case they had a summer program where they were to be taken to the y and taught to swim   which just pleased me to death   because i've always been you know been afraid of the water  
however my older son came home  
and he said mom i don't like that man  
said he took me by the head and [dunked] my head under the water   and told me i had to get my face wet or i'd never swim  
boy  
it didn't take me very long to hot foot it over to the school   and [relay] that to them  
and she said well she said you know kids do [exaggerate]  
but she said let's go ahead and send him another day or two days  
and i promise you faithfully i will watch the instructor every minute   and see exactly what's happening  
okay  
so what were you saying  
no  
no  
not at all  
i work with computers  
yep  
they what  
one thing i  
i have some friends that have children uh not that many actually  
uh  
i do not really know  
excuse me  
too much about child care in new york  
excuse me one second  
huh_uh  
no  
not at all  
in fact my situation is a little bit strange  
i was uh a student for many years and then graduated and went and worked in france for awhile  
and i   have just come back and was doing consulting work  
so i am just taking a little bit of time off right now  
uh and and i might  
yeah  
well hopefully i can do some consulting work at home  
and if i can do that it will  
yeah  
i'll be able to spend the time with my daughter and   not have to worry too much about child care  
but   uh i might start to go crazy with it too  
it is a little  
i miss the intellectual stimulation  
but at the same time i really it would break my heart to give her to a stranger right now  
and  
oh yes  
yeah  
well i think for me the important concerns i do not think i would put her in day care for joint   situation right now unless it was like one other child with a with a person  
i would not want her to be into a in a large day care situation so young   because i think a little infant just does not get the stimulation they need  
maybe if i needed to work part time like four hours a day i might do that cause like you should get enough stimulation from you the rest of the time  
but uh i just think that you know when there's two year olds running around the whoever is taking care of the care givers are going to pay attention to the two year olds  
and only when the infant screams   are they going to go there  
and if not the infant is going to lay in the crib all day and maybe have a mobile above it to play with  
and you know i play with her most of the time she is awake  
and i think that is so important  
yeah  
well such as things for learning gives the child stimulation i think is important  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well she's she's just been doing all kinds of stuff where she's you know  
she's two months now nine weeks  
and she's just drastically moving her eyes from one side to another and things like that  
and she's just started that like yesterday or the day before  
and so every days are different  
and i think that you know i think child care for infants is much harder than when they are older  
and i will probably be going back to work around january   whereas she will be about   eight or nine months old  
and so i think you know she will be at a  
i have heard it's a rough age to put them into a  
yeah  
but but i think it  
yeah  
we are just going to have   to see how things work out  
uh but i am trying to you know leave her a fair amount even at this young age with her grandparents just to   go to a movie and things like that so that she is used to other people taking care of her  
my parents  
my husband's parents are in france  
so it's a little bit harder  
but during you know  
she's met them already  
not that she will remember them  
but she's met them  
uh_huh  
are they all nearby  
yeah  
well if i work part time that might be [doable]  
yeah  
well  
right now the situation is so tight at many places   that it's even hard to have a choice  
incredible  
but you know since this is  
people before they get pregnant are finding child care for the kids  
and you know i just find that incredible  
and my sister in law is going to have a baby very very soon  
and she is intending to stay home with the baby  
and you know maybe do some free lance type work at home  
and so if i go back to work on a part time basis i am hoping i can leave my daughter with her   because her daughter again will be a couple of months my daughter will be about six months older than hers  
and  
it will be a little rough when she is a very very little infant  
but like when she is a month or so my sister in law has had lots and lots of experience dealing with baby sitting for large families  
and so uh she might be able to do it a couple of hours a day  
and we might even be able to do it on a trade off basis that i watch   their baby when they want to go out to dinner or to movies or whatever   or if she wants an afternoon off   even if she wants an afternoon just to work   uh and not be bothered  
we might be able to exchange that way  
and so we will just have to see how things work out  
but i think the whole you know ideally i think uh business should have the   day care centers there whether it's the parents who take turns watching the kids or whether  
they hire a couple of people  
and uh you know parents come down to supervise or   whatever  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well she's  
my daughter does not seem to be on a real schedule yet  
and it's probably my fault because i do not have a real schedule now  
but  
yeah  
well she's been staying up late at night and you know   sleeping late in the mornings and things is just fine by me  
right  
do you work with do you work around children when you work  
with computers  
okay  
do you  
but you have friends that have children  
uh_huh  
what is child care like in new york  
what is  
does the company you work for have   child care on premises for   employees  
oh  
oh my  
a sabbatical  
well i hope you can stay as long as possible with it  
oh yeah  
that would be wonderful   right  
right  
right  
i think it does when when they are real little  
and they are changing every day  
there's  
and you just miss the little things  
and and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
right  
well that it is important for the bonding that they do it   with the mother  
right  
our oldest grandson when he was eighteen months old went into a a montessori   day care system  
and they took infants starting at six weeks  
and they have a program uh in that was [devised] by this montessori person  
and uh and a certain type of [stimulations]  
and there's times of day that even when the child is awake that they that they lay quietly and look at certain things  
they keep deliberately keep the room not real bright  
and and uh they have different things they will they will put them down on the floor  
and of course they never have more than like five  
and and they will put them down on the floor  
and they will have i think one of them was a little mirror  
and some were just different objects that have had a definite purpose   for kids you know  
and there's something about their eyes  
uh  
how old is she  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
a little older  
it is because that's when they are [clinging] to mama  
so you might have a real problem with that  
i think it   it hurts the parents to leave when the child is crying  
so it you know it would be ideal if you could get somebody in so you are not really leaving the child in a strange place  
but that's unusual  
uh_huh  
is it your parents or your husband's parents  
oh  
right  
right  
that's nice when uh  
i my i have three grandchildren  
another one coming in september  
and i  
it would if they were where i could not get my hands on them i am afraid i would probably go crazy  
you know i i like that  
but if it you do not have to put them in child care that's that's an ideal situation for you is to stay with them  
as  
or you can set up your work program and your husband's so that one of you is there all the time  
that's that's wonderful for the child  
but  
right  
and you need to look at when you if you do decide to go with child care you really need to to look at what your options are and and look at the what they offer  
drop in at times that are unexpected  
the  
uh  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that would be wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i do too  
really well trained people  
right  
and have have some kind of real good program   set up so that you when you go you can be assured that if there's an emergency that person in charge knows c p r or first aid  
or   and have some kind of program set up like you say to [stimulate] the kids or educate them in some manner and have the you know the right toys and the right setting and uh have a an organized type of program set up so that the kids have a schedule you know  
that's real important to little kids  
uh_huh  
they they adjust to what the parents  
uh_huh  
you know that works until they start school  
and that's a problem  
society is geared to a a day person  
and it's  
i have another friend who's brother and his wife have done this  
they stay up until all hours of the night  
oh yes  
i'm an old experienced hand  
i started back when it wasn't   stylish to do that at all  
my daughter that's seventeen now   i worked even when she was a baby  
and i had private care for both my daughters until they were two  
and then i was really lucky to have put them in a   methodist day school at preston hollow methodist right off   of walnut hill and preston  
and it was a wonderful environment  
i i just wish all kids if they have to be put in day school could have that kind of place  
so it worked well  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's not hard to find anything that's part time  
so many of the churches have really strong   preschool and children's day out  
but it was a nightmare back when cheryl was little  
and this is one of the few churches that did it  
there were a couple downtown dallas  
but they were so seemed   cold and impersonal  
i just couldn't hack it  
and what i liked about preston hollow is that the people that were there when cheryl was two which was fifteen years ago many of them are still there today  
so there   was real [continuity]  
she went back as a teenager  
and these people that had changed her diapers when she was three were still there  
so it it was really neat  
but it was because they had a director that had always done it as a labor of love  
and   she just kept good people and   real cheerful place lots of arts and crafts  
and i'm really glad my kids had it because plano schools do so little of that   that if they hadn't had it before they hit first grade they were never going to have any art or music or any of the [interpretive] stuff  
uh_huh  
or pay for it after school  
our [emily's] in the third grade over at [huffman]  
and they started a pilot program where we can pay private tuition so that they can take french and music and art  
and   you know i willingly did it  
but i thought   this makes me angry  
this is something that ought to be in the schools   rather than some of the other stuff they do  
yeah  
well that's the only way they're yeah well that's the only way they're going to be able to do it  
and parents who really want their kids to have any humanities are going to have to do that  
so in some ways i think the the day schools do serve those purposes  
yeah  
yeah  
put the colors away  
which is too bad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
until they were two  
yeah  
yeah  
both times they were at our house  
and that was hard too  
i i lucked out with really good people both times  
but i know so many people that are never able to find that  
and i'd practically give my paycheck away to do it  
so  
yeah  
well no  
she didn't live with us  
uh the first one was an   elderly lady who was putting a a daughter through nursing school   just purely on baby sitting money  
and she kept cheryl during the day and then did more baby sitting at night  
and she was neat because she was like the grandmother that my kids never had   because both our parents are dead  
so that that was a plus from   that respect as well  
and then with emily it was a neighborhood friend   that kept her  
so  
i just cannot [fathom] putting a little bitty baby in a commercial care center  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that would be hard  
well they give a lot more leave  
i work at n c n b now  
and our benefits for maternal and and parental care and even for elderly people   are are really expanding  
we have more options now then we did when i my kids were born  
with being able to take off full time longer   of you can phase your schedule in so that it's not full time for   up to six months  
it's really neat  
i've i've had a couple of assistants that came back just three days a week  
or they've you know whatever schedule they want from a pay standpoint  
we try to work it with their hours  
and that helps because you don't have to just [wean] yourself cold turkey and say   okay i never get to see my baby for eight hours a day again  
and the bank has a lot of programs now for child care [referrals]  
i've  
of course it's too late for me so   i've i've not tried them to see how effective they are  
but   i think we're finally beginning to make progress but just not very fast  
and for our age group it's too late too little too late  
but i i do think it's an area that needs to be looked at and improved because more of us are going to have to work  
two income families i think are here to stay  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
oh sure  
you retain employees and keep them longer  
that's that was the rationale they gave when they were giving us information about our   employee assistance programs that   they want us to be happy and want us to be able to cope with trying to   split ourselves in fifteen million pieces  
so i i hope it helps  
it seems to help the new mothers   not have to come back full time  
because that's hard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well in plano though the problem is you find  
and this is what i found with emily  
i from the time she started first grade i wanted her out in plano area  
and i kept finding neighbors and friends  
and they'd move  
she ended up being in a different home every year  
and i finally decided i didn't like that because it was traumatic to her to get so attached to a family and then have them move  
so this year i i tried kinder care  
and   then she's old enough to  
okay  
do you have you ever had to put your children in child care mary [dell]  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
oh  
well i have uh a nine year old and a six year old  
and neither one of them has ever been in   in uh day care for the reason of of me working  
but uh they both went through preschool  
and uh we've just been real lucky   i think anyway to not  
right  
like half day programs  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is uh a big drawback i think in that in the uh public schools out here   you know to  
your lucky to have an art teacher  
and if you do you get them once a week or something you know  
oh is that right  
i had no idea  
oh my goodness  
and with our budget cuts i'm sure   that's not going to not going to change anytime soon  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
that's true  
well even the preschools you know they get so much of that in preschool  
and then when they hit kindergarten you know it's like [wham]   culture shock  
it's just  
yeah  
yeah  
get the computers out  
and you know  
that's hard  
it's so difficult for them  
um did you have your children did you say in home in in private care  
was that in your home or in someone else's home  
uh_huh  
so you were able to have somebody come there  
yeah  
yeah  
did you have a nanny  
or did you have someone   that lived in with you  
oh  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
oh gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have uh  
uh_huh  
i was just listening to a program this morning  
oh well i guess it was on the home show  
but they were talking about uh a new uh  
oh i can't even think of the name of it  
i was halfway listening while i was painting  
um it's some kind of [advisory] board they've put together for parents and children  
and they've now moved it to washington d c  
and the the doctor that was on there the pediatrician said you know i can't imagine leaving a three week old and taking them to a nursery day care   and leaving them there  
you know so um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh boy that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
god it's amazing  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well and i would think you know since big business is supposedly why the government makes the decisions they do   you know the the people that work in big business have families  
they have children  
so it's only to their advantage that they get these programs going and   working  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
oh that's good  
that's good to know  
i have a couple of friends that   have have found the uh you know a a private home to take their children to when they're young   until they hit the preschool age  
and they  
usually you know you'll find a a woman that's keeping like six children or   four to six children in the home  
and my future future sister in law's mother does that too full time  
uh_huh  
oh  
too transit  
uh_huh  
and her surroundings  

okay  
well basically i am a mother of a three year old  
so i kind of relate to trying to find a good day care because it's uh extremely hard thing to do to trust somebody else with your child uh trust their emotional and their safety and   all the rest of that  
and uh i've been pretty selective  
and what i'm finding is with um day cares that are like day care centers like for instance uh learning tree or kinder care and all of that  
what i find is that they're highly structured highly organized almost too rigid for the children if you bring a child in at a certain time   uh like nap time or whatever time uh because of parents' hours they are  
and when i bring my daughter into such a system like that uh they only have one thing going on  
and that's nap time  
everybody is [napping]   whether they came there an hour before or they came right during that time  
and with that kind of a system my daughter just isn't likely to enjoy it if she has to good there immediately and lay down   on a [cot]  
so um home day care has been an option  
and i've looked into that  
the only thing is you raise the question of if it's safe uh can you trust the people you know  
um  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh sure  
sure  
that's really scary  
and   to the point that you kind of say to yourself especially home day care  
i mean i think center day cares there's so many people coming in and out   that you're better off if you're going to put a child into that type of system for eight hours it's fine  
it depends on the age of the child  
now some children do real well that are at the age of four or five or children that have been in that kind of system for a while  
but   home home day care works well if it's an infant  
if it's if it's   if you want to have kind of like a family [structuring] where there's a home that they can be provided because i've seen things at the day care where they can't keep up with all the kids  
the kids have   colds  
and they're sick all the time  
and  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and you never know  
i have um an ex sister in law that   um currently has a child abuse case on a home baby sitter  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
very good  
uh discussion or on child care  
uh they're all grown up  
oh well you know all about it then  
it's been quite a few years  
i have grandchildren but uh haven't really been into selecting child care for them  
so  
and it's been quite a few years since i've had to think about that  
no  
uh my daughter that has three stays home   with her children  
and one of my daughters has one  
but an aunt keeps the baby  
but i would i would not really know how to go about selecting one nowadays  
but i would imagine it's very hard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well that's good  
i've always thought you know it would be really tough  
what if you had a fire or something with babies  
you would have to be able to have enough  
you know you'd have to be able to get them all out  
uh_huh  
oh well that's that's a  
i hadn't thought about that  
but i was thinking oh my gosh if they had very many babies they couldn't possibly get them all out  
but you could put them in one of these [cribs] and then roll the crib out i guess  
oh  
well that's neat  
well do most of your day care workers really care about the children  
or is it just a job for them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how old a group how old are the children go with this center where you work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you've got the little bitty ones  
those are the probably the the best group to have  
and they're fun  
babies are fun  
and they're not quite big enough to be getting into everything yet  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you   think there's very many really good day care centers around your area  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sometimes it's a have to  
i hear a lot of the girls i work with uh constantly oh  
i wish i could find someplace i really felt good about you know  
most of them don't really feel that it's a great place to leave their kids  
and it's really bad you know  
one of the girls she was leaving hers at where she felt like was a really good place  
and then they called her one afternoon and said well we thought we'd better call and tell you before you got over here  
[lacy] fell asleep on the bus after our field trip today  
and we just now found her  
they had left her on the bus closed up all afternoon  
and so immediately she says well i can't have any confidence in them anymore  
if they'll take a group of kids to the zoo or somewhere and then come back and not even count them and realize they're one short  
but one of the teachers happened to walk by and see her pounding on the window trying to get out of the bus  
and this was four hours later you know  
and uh so you know  
what do you do  
so she has switched to a different center now  
and uh  
do you have any children  
oh  
i work in a day care center  
and  
yes  
i enjoy it a lot  
oh  
do they go to a day care center  
or do they stay at  
oh that's nice  
oh that's nice  
i i think so  
i think it's hard to find a good day care  
i have worked in at some other ones that were not very good   in my opinion  
but this one that i'm in now is is very good  
and one of the key things is how many adults are there in ratio to the children  
and like in pennsylvania for babies that's what i work with there has to be a one to four ratio at the most   no more than four babies per care giver  
but we keep it down to like two to one  
yeah  
that makes it a little easier to deal with  
oh i know  
we  
what we do is we have these [cribs] in the back room   where they sleep that are um low to the ground  
and they're [reenforced] real strong  
and they'll sit four babies  
we would just lie them in there  
and they roll real well and maneuver  
that will get them out  
no  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's certainly something we hope never happens  
most really care in this center really care  
uh most everyone has a college degree in like early childhood education  
and really there's only like eight children per room  
and then there's like two or three mostly three care givers in each room  
and that enables them to spend more time with the children  
sometimes i feel like all i'm doing is changing diapers giving bottles and putting babies down for a nap  
so it's nice to be able to play with them and really get to know them  
it's easy to get attached to them too  
um in my room they go from eight weeks to nine months  
and throughout the center it goes up to like age twelve  
so i have the real real young ones in my room  
uh_huh  
they're you know they're wonderful  
they don't complain too much  
yes  
they are a lot of fun  
not quite  
it's a  
when they start to crawl they try to climb up on things  
and  
you have to be real careful all the everything is baby proof  
you know all the doors have [latches] and stuff so they can't get into anything  
but they try  
but yeah  
in my area  
because i live in a college town in penn state university  
so i  
there is a lot of a lot of college educated people and stuff that are in the centers that really seem to have an idea of what's going on  
and uh in general though i've i've been really disappointed with a lot   of other centers i've worked at and it all and all  
it's not my choice for when when i have children  
but but some people don't have a choice  
yes  
uh_huh  
that is sad  
what  
oh my god  
oh  
oh my god  
oh that poor child  
that's awful  
well i  
hello  
my name is donna  
and i'm calling from plano texas  
oh okay  
um would you like me to go first  
okay um  
i have three children um two two who are in regular school uh eleven year old an eight year old  
and then my little one three year old is in um a university of gymnastics  
it's a a preschool  
and um i think it was really hard to um to pick the right uh day care or preschool or mother's day out  
i guess you can classify them all together  
um some of the qualifications that i look for was that uh you know the cost and um exactly what they did if it was structured or [nonstructured] if they had a little academic um uh in there and um you know um you know what the qualifications of the [teachers'] were and if the place was clean and   um the hours  
and um just just kind of going by word of mouth and finding out if anybody else has been pleased with their program   that kind of stuff  
oh congratulations  
right  
or staying home  
uh_huh  
that's a very good place to start i think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the mother's day out programs  
and that's where [shannon] had started in a mother's day out program  
and uh the churches always have i think a a pretty good program  
and you have to make sure that you um that you apply pretty early because they do have a lot of places have very long waiting lists  
and um and another question to ask is if they're um state certified   um you know if the teachers have um their master's degree in in child education and   um child development  
um you know what what kind of a structure is it going to be  
um when your child's a little bit older like a three year old   you'd be more concerned with if there's a type of care that it's torture for them to lay down and take a nap  
is there like a mandatory nap time  
what they do at [shannon's] school is have a video tape going  
and if and they lay on these little mats  
and if they fall asleep they kind of let them sleep  
and the teacher stays with the sleeping ones  
and the other ones get up and go do something else  
so she doesn't have to necessary take a nap there   you know which is which is nice um  
that's true  
right  
and sometimes when the child's a lot younger before they're really um before three years old you know like the church is a good program  
and sometimes you even consider um you know having a private person come to your own home when they're real little or   or something like that  
and another consideration is how many infants or children are they what's the ratio of of teachers to   to children  
because that makes a a a difference  
and if your child would be maybe sleeping in that crib all day  
just your child and or do they just put any child in any crib   you know  
you would want maybe your child to have their own sheets all the time and not have another   child use that bed   you know  
i'm sure that um whatever you decide you'll be happy with  
and it's exciting time to have a new one  
i bet  
that's that's wonderful  
uh_huh  
asking  
right  
some some places um start them as early as i think well some some places take them as infants i guess you know like eight weeks even  
um there's a place to look into um um  
a friend of mine who's a nurse is was telling about a wonderful new place that opened some place in on fifteenth street  
up  
it's in plano somewhere where um  
nurses that used to work in the hospital take care of infants infants and then only up to like two years old  
and it's it's supposed to be really a a  
you know some places just [specialize] in just real little ones  
and then other ones uh are the older children  
but it is a difficult situation i think  
when they're when they're little it's almost easier to leave them because when they're three and they're cry  
hi  
this is laurie  
and i'm in garland  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well we don't have any children  
but we're going to have one next year  
thanks  
so um that's something that i'm probably going to be looking at   maybe in the future  
we haven't quite decided if i'm going to  
i'm working part time now  
and i don't know if i'll be doing that or what we're going to do  
but if we do then i'm going to need to find somebody  
and our church has a mother's day out program   which they started last year  
and we know a lot of people at the church  
so i would feel very confident with leaving   my child there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
time uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
um you know it's kind of scary i guess because you hear so many bad things about day cares   lately  
and so it's i guess it's such a growing concern  
but then there's a lot of good things you don't hear  
right  
to children  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
we're pretty excited  
yeah  
but that you know we have been thinking about that  
but it's a little ways off in the future  
but um i figure you know i'd probably start asking   around at church   because i know they have a limit as to how old they can be before they you know before you can bring them in  
uh_huh  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
okay uh do you have young children  
oh well then you are familiar with it  
okay  
i uh i have grandchildren  
and i know uh one has gone to a well two of them have gone to preschool  
and i know what the experience my daughter has faced with that  
why don't you tell me what you have found  
okay  
so   okay  
so it was in home child care  
you took them to someone's home  
well both times  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
i know that in raising my children uh i was fortunate  
i didn't have to work  
we didn't necessarily have a lot of things  
but uh and i know my daughter  
because she has three  
and to have three in day care you know even though one of them's in school full time one of them's you know in kindergarten   that is a lot of money  
i mean it's so expensive  
you have to really make a lot of money  
and i'm glad that she gets to stay home so that she can then participate with what's going on in their life  
uh bosses don't always seem to understand getting off to go to christmas programs in the middle of the day or something  
you know and i know that one of the day cares and it's a a well known chain uh she was not at all happy with  
it was there was too many children per person  
they were just kind of left to play  
there was no structure to  
and the middle grandson went there as a uh like a preschool thing  
she was wanting him actually to start getting a certain amount of of learning and training and stuff  
not just there you know  
so he went like uh i think he went well five mornings a week if i remember correctly  
and uh you know and it was supposed to be a base  
you know starting to learn the colors and and learning to associate with children   so that when he went to you know school   and stuff  
and uh she was most unhappy with it  
there was no structure  
there was nothing to it  
you know and uh she pulled him out of that one and put him in a another one that was excellent  
it was it was like a little kindergarten  
and uh they had hot lunches  
and and they had classes that you know one class they'd do art  
they even [familiarized] the children with computers  
uh it was just it was really a very excellent   one  
he's now five and a half  
he's in kindergarten  
this was last year  
and uh so you know it helped him and and the first one uh he went to a uh church preschool   that was very good  
the methodist church in richardson  
the big one  
and it was a excellent  
they  
very good  
oh does he  
yeah  
they uh the church ones church ones seem to be very well run  
oh really  
oh i had uh i just assumed that most churches going by you know   experience there that you know that they were good  
i   i didn't know that uh you know  
i'm not that familiar  
i just know that you know first united methodist of richardson was   just a great program  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's a pretty good size church too isn't it  
uh_huh  
so   well are you enjoying staying home  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well isn't it very hard to teach young children and then come home and deal   with young children   and have enthusiasm  
uh_huh  
i have got two  
one is uh two  
and the other one's four  
and uh this is my first year of staying home  
i've always had them in child care  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh the  
with our second sitter the first one didn't quite work out there were some things going on that i wasn't really happy with  
and so i felt that that i need to move on with them  
and so i found another baby sitter  
and she was wonderful  
except i thought that there were too many in the home  
and it just seemed like it was so hard to find uh really good child care  
she was wonderful  
it's just that i felt that there were too many in the home  
it was   in home child care  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and uh and then i worked in in the child care centers  
and i wasn't really happy with the particular one that i was working in  
so i just always had a fear about you know child care centers  
so that's why i put them in a in a in home day care   uh_huh  
and then i just decided that i was just missing a lot of their time whether they were so little  
and and i couldn't get off of work as often as i wanted to when they were ill  
so i just decided it was probably best just to stay home for a while until they were a little more uh independent  
and uh i could go back to work  
yeah  
that's how it's going now  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh no  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
and how old was he  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
my little boy goes to the methodist uh in garland  
uh_huh  
i'm real happy with that one  
well i've i've heard that the methodist ones are excellent  
uh_huh  
even the even the mother's day out programs i heard are real good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because this is first united methodist in garland   that he goes to  
and i'm real happy with that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's a  
yes  
i am  
uh i taught for richardson school district  
and uh i taught early childhood  
and i really enjoyed it  
but it was just it was taking a lot of my time  
and i noticed i was spending less and less time with them  
and it just seemed like they were sick more often  
and i just couldn't get the time off to  
so  
yeah  
it is  
it really is  
yeah  
it really is  
and i felt  
so uh what do you think about child care  
right  
probably find someone  
how come you wouldn't take them to a day care  
just because of the  
yeah  
they seem to pass a lot of  
yeah  
you kind of wonder whether or not  
i took uh [cammy] to a oh  
it was a preschool day care type of thing  
but i kind of i liked it some ways  
and some ways i didn't  
uh i think the ratio of kids to teacher is really important  
and  
well i think they had a they had two teachers  
and i think there were twenty kids  
but i only had her going two days  
and most of the other kids were going more days  
so that was probably my own fault   that she didn't  
oh you know one thing i noticed is uh uh just they were trying to get her to teach her to write her name  
and uh i didn't notice it until this summer when i was working with her that she would bend her wrist all the way oh not in a natural form  
yes  
and uh i was kind of mad that they had never noticed that and either pointed it out to me or or uh tried to say look you're holding your  
she was holding her pencil in the right fingers and stuff  
but she was  
yes  
and uh i hadn't worked with her on writing at all at that point  
she was four or three  
yeah  
she was uh it was last year  
and uh then this summer i got the thing from the school that says things to work with the kids on  
and i  
like i said i didn't notice it till then   because i hadn't worked with writing letters or anything and   stuff like that  
no  
they never  
course like i said i took her two days a week  
and maybe that was  
my main reason for taking her was uh just social skills   more than anything else  
i felt she needed the  
just i didn't feel like she was mature enough socially  
and uh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i think it would be hard to take them to people you don't know  
[preschool's] a different thing  
but i think it's hard to take kids to somebody you don't know and or unless you have awfully good references   reliable uh people  
i don't know  
it's so hard to take young kids anywhere for very long  
it is  
the older ones it's not  
you don't even really have any real worries because you know that they'll play with whoever's there  
and they usually adapt pretty well  
but uh  
well and you know their kind of their schedules  
and you know if they're upset and that type of a deal  
i don't know how uh people uh that have young kids working work full time and and do it really without being stressed out all the time  
i think it's well  
i don't know  
then then on the other hand i think it's harder to stay home in some regards  
it's hard to always keep yourself feeling like you're doing something productive  
and at the end of the day your house still feels like it's a mess  
and you haven't got anything done  
and  
what am i going to fix for supper  
yeah  
it's kind of hard to always feel gosh  
what  
is this important what i'm doing  
and  
no  
no  
it   it doesn't  
but i think for taking kids to a probably people that take them to uh preschools and day cares full time oh  
they would i don't know probably just feel a different uh  
i think i just think it would be hard to do that full time  
i feel such a responsibility even when we go out for a few hours that  
are they driving the baby sitter crazy  
and   you know  
oh well my my feelings on it is uh i wouldn't take a child to day care you know  
i mean i'd i'd wind up uh  
just a baby sitter in a home  
uh  
well too many kids and and i think too many infections and things coming in  
yeah  
[sicknesses] and  
i don't know  
then all the things you hear about them  
yeah  
i mean i'm sure there's some good ones  
but i just  
i don't think that i would uh  
oh uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
how was it  
oh  
she went  
oh she did  
[wrapping] her arm all the way around  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
well they'd never picked it out though  
huh  
or just never said anything  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well one thing that's kind of different too though a preschool than than taking a a infant or   to at a day care where they're   taken care of  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think it's hard to leave them  
it is  
yeah  
yeah  
it it is i think just hard to leave them because nobody will give them the kind of care their own families will  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
it is  
yeah  
well uh the work never ends  
that's for sure  
so  
huh  
uh_huh  
or is everything okay  
nancy do you have any children  
oh  
well that's nice  
that is lucky  
well how old um does a child have to be before you have to you get to stop making arrangements for him i wonder  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well and um it's nice for them   not to be alone  
uh_huh  
not after  
oh no  
yeah  
she is  
well i'm glad you have that um opportunity to have your mom  
well i i have two kids   and uh five and six a girl and a boy  
and um so far i haven't had to make a lot of child care arrangements for them because um i'm at home now   full time  
but um when i was going to school i would go to school a time that my husband wasn't you know when he was at home  
so that we would just switch back and forth like that  
but um it's really scary  
and i would really hate to be in a position to have to find child care  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
oh  
well that's nice  
and i know that i have um done some [babysitting] myself  
and uh  
when i was in school and needed extra money  
and i know how i feel how i felt as a provider of child care that even though you're you're taking care of someone else's child and you're forcing yourself to you know treat them equally and you know better usually better than your own  
um it's not the same  
and it made me realize that um no one will love your child as much as   you and your mother your   and um the family  
and no one will look out after them  
and i just think um so far i think my preference would be rather than to have like a oh a big day care  
that um what is that like child kinder care and   things like that  
rather than having one where they would deliver the children to school in a van or something  
i would prefer to have in home care either my own home or a   neighbor or something  
uh_huh  
right  
it is hard  
no  
no  
and i know um when i pick my kids up from school they want to come home  
and i   and i would hate for them to have be picked up   by a day care   and be taken to another   large group situation  
so i think uh my preference would be a small small if i had to find day care   would be a small someone that i knew  
uh_huh  
no  
well that's true because even now when they're gone to school it seems like there's just not enough time left over   in the day  
and uh by the time they have to eat and have homework and they want some free time  
and there's just not enough to time in the day to do anything good quality for them  
but that's really  
yes  
i have a twelve year old  
and i've been very lucky  
i haven't needed child care except for my mom  
so   i've been real lucky  
i'm a nurse  
i go to school i mean i go to work early  
so my mom comes over in the morning and gets her ready for her school or just hangs by while she gets ready  
drives her to school  
then i'm home to pick her up  
so i'm very very lucky  
well i could do it now  
but she gets lonely   in the morning  
and i feel better  
um she has a crazy father out there somewhere that i just don't let her out of my sight  
so um   you never know  
yeah  
yeah  
she feels that way you know  
and we have a neighbor on the next block that she could always walk over there   and go to school with  
but we just feel better doing it this way  
so   i don't know what day we'll stop  
we we were about to stop one day this year  
and then her father called the school and made all kinds of [threats]  
and so   we didn't stop  
and so so um you know you realize that it only takes one second for something to happen  
so   even though she's twelve she's still a kid  
so   you got to be careful  
yeah  
i'm i'm glad too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i would too because even though a place can look pretty good on the outside we're finding out now that it's not always on the inside  
and i i just don't know what i would do if   i had to do that  
i know the hospital that i work in is a big hospital  
and they provide child care  
and of course they charge for it  
but at least all the nurses can leave their children  
and they're always watching them  
they can eat lunch with them  
if they feel sick they can call them at work and they run over and check on them  
and   they feel a little better than if they dropped them off somewhere on the way  
so   yeah  
it is nice   right right   well that's right  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
just never know  
i [babysat] for the little girl next door for a year or so when her parents first got divorced  
and   it was hard to treat her equally with my child  
they were the same age  
and they played together  
and they were good friends  
but like you said you tend to go more for the other one's side   just because you are responsible  
and so   it it got hard  
my daughter got jealous  
and um it just wasn't the same as when they were just playing as friends because she had to be there every day  
so i stopped that after a year because it was difficult   to balance it  
so  
they do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know i know   yeah  
yeah  
well i would rather do without some things   and i know that some parents they both do have to work  
but a lot of people where i live are working just because they want bigger and better  
and i would never do that  
i never have done it  
and i just never would do it  
i would rather do without some things that really aren't very important compared to being with my child when they're growing up  
so  
no   there isn't  
there isn't any time  
that's true  
so you have a child   two years old in child care right now   uh_huh  
uh  
yes  
our first  
and he just turned three months  
so we're just starting into hunting for child care  
right now both of us are students  
uh  
uh university of southern mississippi  
uh she's  
yeah  
uh probably uh  
actually spring semester a year from now he's going to have to be in child care uh five days a week more than likely   uh depending on how my class schedule runs  
because my wife will be doing her internship that semester  
it will be forty hour week not no eight to five type of thing  
so depending on what my class schedule looks like he may spend four anywhere from four to eight hours a day in child care at that point  
right now we're trying to avoid it  
but we just as a matter of fact just yesterday hired a a girl to uh watch him  
uh i get out of class at certain time  
and my wife is already supposed to be on her way to her class you know  
once a day this overlap happens where we can't one of us   be home  
so for about twenty twenty thirty minutes a day we got a baby sitter comes in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh that makes a big difference  
yes  
yeah  
there's a lot of child care available but   invariably there's waiting lists  
and we were a little slow getting on the waiting list   with the uh okay the university uh [university's] uh   uh department of uh uh their home [ec] department  
uh they uh they have a [subbranch] uh american family counseling  
and their people staff this this uh the child care center just off campus  
but uh they have a pretty good size waiting list  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's best   yeah  
a cottage industry's the best way to do it really  
because if you over  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
and it's amazing how much good things like uh sesame street will do  

yeah  
we  
two year old daughter in child care  
and we went through the process of searching for child care and   uh finding what we consider to be   real good child care at a uh pretty reasonable price we think  
how about you  
do you have any children  
oh boy  
yeah  
are you  
where are   a student  
no kidding  
i was a professor in a university here in california for a while  
yeah  
uh are you going to uh put your son in child care in a a year or two  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's a good experience i think  
and uh there are a lot of things to think about  
and the articles that are written on the topic   are pretty good  
and they kind of boil down to uh  
any other important decision you really have to explore the alternative  
and what we found uh to be the best guide was our own instincts about   people who were going to be loving  
and uh that's more important than anything else  
we could have sent uh her to a fancier uh facility  
uh she goes to a home  
this is a uh   a couple uh [emigrated] from china early   in in their lives  
they've been here probably thirty forty years  
they've got three daughters  
uh and   they have a loving home  
and uh they're both there  
and they have a kid that comes in and helps them in the afternoon  
and our daughter is healthy happy well adjusted and enjoys going   to see her friends  
so   it's a good experience  
i  
if it's good  
i think it's very good for the child  
and if it's   a loving environment i think it's very good  
and and that's really what we've learned about it  
she'll have to go on to something more stimulating in terms of preschool in a year  
but uh we feel real fortunate  
and we were able to uh just uh choose in the marketplace  
i don't know what it's like around uh [hattiesburg]  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i'll bet they're involved  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's uh  
i know it's it's a real hard thing to do even for people in in uh university communities  
out here at [manford] they have a you know a a a real good facility  
and there uh is quite a waiting list to get into that  
so it's uh uh you know it's a it's a it's an important   decision  
it's an industry that's still a cottage industry  
and i think this is really   is buyer [beware]   well it is the best way   to do it interestingly  
i think that uh my own interest in in development human development   leads me to believe that that's a good sign and that uh private enterprise is the way to go and that it will lead to a   fundamental change in the way we learn  
because i think what we're going to go to is much more commercial entrepreneurial learning [ventures] in the market  
as a matter of fact my future is [banked] on that uh professionally because i believe that that there are uh pressing needs in the marketplace [unmet] by schools colleges   universities for uh learning a lot of things that kids can learn watching sesame street and in child care  
primary skills which turn out   to be the most important skills in life  
it's it's phenomenal  
it's phenomenal the programming the human operating system  
okay  
well um i used to work in a day care center  
i worked in um in all the different areas of the day care center  
and it is they can be deceiving to people  
i did not work there long because i couldn't handle the the treatment that the children got  
and this is supposed to be a very well known center here in tyler who had two or three um centers   all over you know the um city  
and they would um be one way when the parents were there and be another way when the parents left  
so um i think you need to make you know if you do do day care centers you know you should make frequent checks and um to check in on them when they're not expecting it  
because they do do things differently when you're not around  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well this one was set up good  
i mean they had two teachers   to every room um sometimes three  
and they had a good system like so when you walked in everything looks cool  
the problem i had was that they did not show affection to the children enough  
they did not show them care to these small children who are being left  
um they  
one time i picked up this little boy who was crying  
and the owner came and just chewed me up one side down the other   you know  
he said you are going to have every child in here wanting you to pick them up  
and i said no  
this child was crying and needed some comfort you know  
what is your problem  
so um  
yes  
right  
they did they had like um the the crawlers the babies that didn't walk in one room   the ones that were starting to walk in one room  
then they had like the um three three year olds upper fours lower fours upper fives lower fives you know just like that  
you know they really did separate them well  
it was just the teachers themselves  
right  
but  
yeah  
that they're not  
yeah  
their system  
right  
but their but their system was was great  
but um the you know the caring just wasn't there  
the one woman that taught that did the babies i worked with her  
and she was fabulous  
she loved them babies  
and she loved them and cared for them  
but um every one of the others that i saw was just screaming and yelling and um you know would make me a nervous wreck  
so you know  
yeah  
these kids are just in a day care center all day   and uh with no any type of emotional you know getting love getting care  
they're just there   you know going through this routine   which is lousy  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you don't see that much  
that's cute  
yeah  
that has to be with a day care center  
i've never heard of that  
that's that's a new one   on me  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that  
i know  
the things that we kind of looked at is is you want to see how many teachers you have   and and how many kids they have and how they break it up  
because we had we had one that sounds kind of like what you were in  
it it was a really good one  
and in fact it worked out for us because my wife we kind of [bartered]  
my wife did [artwork] for them  
and then you know so we got our day care free  
but they didn't have enough teachers  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
did did they separate them by age group  
because i'd think you know i think that's one thing that was important  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it sound  
yeah  
it sounds like to me your your concern would be to make sure that they are loving people     affectionate people that they're they're kind of   may be parents themselves or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i i think that's probably a really important thing because you can have [doctorates] and p h d's and all that kind of thing and you know know all the technical stuff  
but if they don't reach out and touch the kids then that doesn't do any good  
yeah  
yeah  

the other the other group that we had was kind of interesting  
the other one we went to the it was a husband and wife team  
and we knew them from other associations  
but uh it was kind of interesting because she was kind of the strict one  
and i think you know she would she'd put her arm around the kids and talk to them and stuff you know  
but he was actually the more um the more uh what [demonstrative] type   the more loving  
he would you know laugh with the kids and play with the kids  
and   and it was kind of interesting to see that that it was actually the man in the group that that did that side of it  

yeah  
so they had a really nice balance  
we liked that one  
in fact it was called [humpty] [dumpty] play school or something  
but they also did they also did some of the teaching things  
and then they had um you know  
obedience obedience was important  
and you know so they you know they used uh-oh i think they used the  
you probably heard where you know where you stand in front of the clock and get your power back to control yourself  
and it's it's one  
uh i can't remember what they call it actually  
but you just stand them in front of a clock  
and you know it has a second hand that goes around  
and they have to stand there  
steve this is  
like i mentioned brian and i guess we're going to want to be talking about child care  
uh do you have any experience in uh finding child care  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well uh we're kind of lucky  
i i'm uh i'm working  
my wife isn't working  
and she is taking care of the kids also  
and and so we haven't had to look for child care either which has been very nice  
but i do have like you mentioned a lot of friends a lot of uh co workers and associates that are looking for child care  
and some of the things that they're very critical about is the number of kids that are in the child care uh what kind of you know uh guidance counselor to student or you know uh adult to child relationship  
how many  
you know you don't want to have thirty or forty kids and only one adult  
then   uh something happens and the adult wouldn't be able to uh accommodate or take care of the kids very well  
and uh they also want to make sure that the kids are being taught and not just playing around all the time  
so you know depends also upon the the level of the child  
we uh we uh take a very close look at finding a a preschool a good preschool for our kid  
and i kind of relate that to that in in making sure that the the uh teachers are very well educated themselves they have a good curriculum and that they're willing to teach the kids and have a fun time with them  
and it's very important i feel uh that the kids interact with other children also  
it's a it's a good way to develop   relationships with other kids their age and uh get to know and work with kids  
so i don't know i i guess we're kind of in the same boat  
we haven't had to look very carefully for child care  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i think it's uh important like you mentioned that's a good idea on the uh parent co op because uh i'm very concerned about the welfare of my kids  
and i don't want to just take them to somebody i pick out of the yellow pages or out of some ad somewhere  
i want to trust the people  
and uh you know you hear in the you hear on the t v and you read the newspaper quite often of of people that you know don't treat or take care of your kids the way you think they ought to be taken care of  
so and hope to never get into that situation where we have to have to find somebody and we have to trust someone with the welfare of our children  
and hope that we can stay in this situation for awhile  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
well steven it's been  
well ourselves we have i guess never had to look for child care  
our kids are now fourteen and eighteen  
but uh and so you know you go back those many years and uh we didn't do it very much  
we i guess we were in a situation where we didn't need to be looking at uh two family income at the time  
and our kids were older  
but i've had to deal with uh you know friends of ours that have used child care and that kind of thing  
uh so it  
my involvement hasn't been direct  
but still have been you know certainly exposed to criteria people are using  
how about yourself  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i kind of think that uh you know some of our friends or even our own children will be in a situation where they may need to look for child care  
but even you know here i guess we have in one sense two forms of uh child care  
there's where individuals will in one primarily babysit   children in their own home  
and that will be groups of anywhere from one or two to maybe seven or eight children  
and then otherwise there will be  
the majority are co [operative] day cares  
uh people form a co op and uh parents will work in the co op and put a fair number of hours  
frequently they will hire staff to be at the day care  
and the emphasis is primarily uh someplace for the children to be  
but at the same time there's some fairly good training programs and and some of them formal two year programs  
uh so that  
you know there is some definite uh creative play good social interaction that kind of thing  
yeah  
yeah  
you know we've even had some of those kinds of situations publicized here  
and i guess you know it are  
it's uh typically uh whether it's been child care in a home   or in a larger situation where actually it's more of an institution  
and you've actually got children that most people would consider problem children  
and it's not and it's more of a group home rather than   actually day care type of facility  
uh  
go ahead  
um  
well you should you should have some opinions on that then  
well i guess if i were going to choose i mean my first consideration would be safety  
my second consideration would be uh uh health  
and uh i guess my third consideration would be uh   warm   environment warm personal environment  
oh absolutely  
as a matter of fact i believe that the safety and and health uh issues uh depend in a very direct way on the people who are working with the children  
and it's the most difficult of all for a parent judge uh   because a person can be very nice and warm and loving  
but if he's a space [cadet] and doesn't watch the children and be aware of what the safety hazards are  
maybe the right thing to do is to uh when a couple has a child then they should both take you say the first four or five years are the most important and i think i would agree with that they both take four or five years off and devote to parenting  
get rid of all these child care centers at least for young kids below the age of six  
and then uh and then of course to make up for that uh the uh parents would have to work in their later years longer you know  
in other words they probably would not work may not may end up not working at all in the twenties uh  
but then they have to work from age thirty or or forty to age seventy or eighty or ninety  
right  
well you know the uh uh the world is changing uh from from uh industrial uh base to uh information base  
and so   what that means is you don't have to be physically powerful to work  
all you have to do is have a sharp mind  
and i believe that uh mental [acuity] is easy to sustain maintain if you just simply continue to exercise your mind  
so i think a person could work uh into the seventies eighties even nineties for that matter  
if they didn't have to do a lot of physical uh labor they could maintain uh  
oh okay  
yeah  
the uh subject is child care and how to determine child care  
and that's uh an interesting one for me to talk about since i have no children  
but i did run a child care facility for a while  
and uh have some  
i do have some thoughts on that  
yeah  
uh it's uh an interesting experience to be a surrogate parent for or parent for a lot of people there  
and uh it's also very interesting in terms of how people choose the child care facilities  
right  
right  
well right  
uh in texas we have to meet certain state standards in order to operate on a at an institutional level and at a like a small home level  
so you meet the standards  
but then after that there's there's a lot more  
i think it's important as the safety and health and that kind of stuff is qualification of people who work there and in hiring people who would work at the uh day care the child care facility was very difficult to find qualified people uh in terms of not just just  
because somebody has a child or uh likes children doesn't really mean that they're qualified to give the child the kind of supervision and training that   that uh  
exactly  
and that was the most difficult thing of all to find the the right people the qualified people  
oh  
oh exactly  
and the other thing that's difficult in uh it's a too small setting like a day care center is to find the right program of enrichment for the child because you don't want to just warehouse the child  
and i didn't want to run an institution where that was the case where all we were doing were warehousing because the first four five years or so important  
and you have to have the right kind of enrichment  
and that that includes uh an atmosphere in which the child is safe and and he's watched and his physical needs are cared for  
but also his uh [developmental] needs are cared for too  
that would be lovely  
uh_huh  
well that's an interesting thought because  
that would be okay  
that would that would help on the other end too in in terms of not warehousing people and letting people be productive for as long as they can be  
uh_huh  
that's exactly right  
oh  
okay  
so   what kind of experience do you do you have then with child care  
does it say something  
okay  
well   does it usually make a recording or  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
i have three  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do  
yes uh  
i don't work though  
but i used to work and when i had two children  
i work off and on just temporarily and usually find friends to babysit  
but i don't envy anybody who's in that situation to find day care  
but does your sister live in a big community  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
wow  
how lucky  
i i know a lot of people around here sometimes have like mothers or grandmothers   that take care of their kids  
and but the community i'm in is not a real large one  
so there are a lot of people who babysit in their homes that you know  
you either know them or know somebody who knows them to get to  
yeah  
to get references and that  
so but uh  
i i don't feel comfortable about leaving my kids in a big day care center but simply because there's so many kids and so many  
yeah  
and uh you know colds and things like that get   spread real easy and things  
but and they're expensive  
and course there's a lot of different types of day care available too you know where they teach them academic things  
or they just watch them and let them play and things like that  
but  
take a long time to find the right place  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
when he starts [toddling] around and stuff  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it would be hard  
i think it would be kind of stressful  
it would be nice to have him around  
but uh seems like you know  

what if he cried at the wrong time  
or the phone rang or   you know at the wrong time  
but  
uh_huh  
well when you have kids will you work  
do you   work now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
actually i teach my kids at home  
so i'm here all the time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
not  
it depends on the state you live actually  
some laws absolutely prohibit it  
some states uh say that you have to be a certified teacher in order to do that  
our state doesn't yet say that  
and i'm not a certified teacher  
i went to college  
but i you know but my kids are only elementary grades levels right now  
and so  
one of them was for a couple of years  
and so you know my oldest he was  
and then my youngest two have never been  
so anyway  
but we don't  
i guess   i think uh i wonder if that worked  
i think it usually does  
you might try uh  
i don't know  
hold it down a little longer  
and see if it uh  
okay  
i   well i don't remember  
it seemed like it did  
but it might not  
i guess   i guess we can start uh  
no  
i don't i don't have any kids  
i uh my sister has a she just had a baby  
he's about five months old  
and she was worrying about going back to work and what she was going to do with him and   the different  
do you have kids  
oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh yeah  
she lives  
it's a it's a fairly large community  
she uh got real lucky though  
he had a boss who uh moved into a larger office  
and she's able to take her baby to work with her  
and it's a small office that she works in  
and uh it's a it's a legal firm office  
and it's just one lawyer  
and so she's the only one really that takes care of the office  
there's no one else that works there  
and so they have an extra room and everything for the baby  
so it works out pretty good for her  
yeah  
yeah  
so it's fairly safe  
worried that they're not going to get enough attention  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
and you and you don't always even know if it's it's going to be the right place or not  
anything i guess could happen  
because after i guess after he you know gets to a certain age she's going to have to take him to a day care  
yeah  
when when he's not when she can't keep control of him  
and he starts crawling  
that's  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think she has problems with that too  
i don't know  
that's something i've considered uh  
i always kind of think it would be neat to be able to watch them and be there for them all the time  
is that what you do  
oh so they don't go to school  
is it like uh  
oh what's that called  
it's uh correspondence school  
they do it   at home  
that's interesting  
do you have to have any special training  
so they haven't been to public schools at all  
um  
so you've never had  
uh i've had uh three boys through i guess uh some child care each one of them  
and now they're in school  
so it's all over  
but uh i guess i would say it's not easy to find what most parents would want  
is that right  
i guess uh the only rule uh i can think of is that i like to look for places with uh good respectable [nonprofit] behind them like a university or a hospital or something like that  
if they're associated with a college or a university they're usually a pretty good bet  
uh i think it's sort of the opposite of what you would want when you buy a car or refrigerator something  
you'd like to get it from some good [cutthroat] capitalist company but not with child care  
yeah  
for profit   places i would really look at them awfully carefully  
but uh when i was when my kids were young i was teaching at a university  
and uh the child care center associated with our university was quite good  
so   i felt confident that they'd do right  
oh you mean uh learning type uh yeah   i mean actual experiments they would have to get your permission  
but yeah  
i suppose uh if you're if there is a psychology department or an education department around you might find you might find that they're pushing one form of education or another  
i guess that's true  
but uh i never had bad experience in that respect  
of course you also tend to get people that are associated with the university and the hospital as the parents  
and they you know  
pretty good people  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i never really worry very much about it  
i tend to think those are very rare but quickly [exploited] and made public  
so i   never really worried too much about that being uh uh the case with my boys  
uh i you know i think those things get into the headlines immediately when somebody finds out about them  
but  
i don't think it's as common as uh the newspapers would make you believe  
oh yeah  
i mean that  
right  
well in our case we made the decision that my wife would stay home until the boys were uh in school  
and i'm really happy we did it although it was very very difficult  
and   i think it was the right thing to do  
and we were uh we just decided that we would do it  
and we went ahead  
but uh not everybody can make that choice  
and even even though my wife wasn't working we did have uh one or another of the boys in uh child care for part just for part of the day uh or a couple of days a week just so that uh other things could get done around the house and so on  
so   so we did look around  
i think my wife is much better than i am at that walking into a place and getting a feeling for whether it is a loving and caring place or not  
and uh   so i would always trust her judgment on that  
uh_huh  
there's absolutely no question that you're going to be the best child care provider for that kid  
so yeah do it as long you can  
but i think you know you have to look through a place  
and you have to get a feel for uh how they treat the kids and uh uh what kind of staff members they have and   how much turnover they have and things like that before you   commit your child to them  
and i think you have the main thing is that you have to determine that they're perfectly open that you're welcome anytime without notice in the middle of the day and so forth  
and if they're at all [queasy] about that then   i'd look elsewhere yeah  
right  
you have other friends that have kids uh being taken care of in uh child care  
uh_huh  
so but i really think the news reports are uh tend to sensationalize the problems  
i think the problems are more ones of cost and resources and uh pay and [exhaustion] and   you know things like that rather than these uh uh really wild abuse cases that you read about because it make good copy  
yeah  
uh_huh well  
well i can profit by this because i'm due with my first in about three months  
huh  
i guess not  

i suppose you're absolutely right there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
of  
aren't don't they kind of use them for everybody kind of use them for guinea pigs for their for their pet theories or some such thing  
yes  
um well the thing i really worry about is uh the sexual abuse cases you read about  
and i mean you'd just feel awful if something like that happened  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and another thing is cost  
i know so many of my friends i went to school with who are having babies right now  
and they finding in some cases they're finding it's just not worth it to work because it's all going out in daycare  
um  
um  
huh  
huh  
huh well i'm just [thanking] heaven  
my husband just got a new job  
his last company he was only working four days a week  
so it's  
and he just got a new job  
he's getting lots of overtime  
he got a pay raise  
and so i'm just grateful that we don't have to worry so much about my working or not  
i suppose  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you have to start wondering if they don't want you  
yes  
huh  
uh i have one  
but i haven't really had a chance to talk to her about that for a while  
uh_huh  
this is true  
current affair can   get several shows child cases  
well i haven't had an awful lot of uh incidents regarding child care  
when my two year old was in new orleans she got bit on the cheek  
and uh but uh that's about the the uh the extent of it  
but but but when  
i really am am concerned about is that uh so many of these child care places are are coming under uh uh you know investigation for for uh you know child molestation  
and i and i and i'm saying to myself well you know you dump your your your little turnip off to uh you know this child care place  
and they don't pay very much  
and why why would they be interested in in your little turnip unless you know one of the motivations in the hidden agenda is well that's somebody to [molest] you know  
and uh that's a terrible kind of thing  
and i don't think my children have ever been subject to that  
but my wife didn't work  
and so we really didn't have that much exposure to it  
huh  
huh  
oh well that's interesting  
oh my god  
well you must have a just one hero [ace] professional job to support something like that  
oh well yeah  
uh_huh  
well not not all of us  
you know what the kind of things you're supposed to look for  
i'm an engineer  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
five hundred dollars a week   for two kids  
that's incredible  
oh oh  
well  

yeah  
you know  
they could  
somebody will have a job at three hundred a week to get off welfare  
and   you know that's a good starting wage  
but   boy three hundred dollars a week doesn't go very far on child care  
huh  
i mean we used to pay pay fifty cents an hour to baby sit  
but mine are twenty two twenty three and twenty seven  
so   you know that  
i guess baby sitters now are up at what five dollars an hour  
oh my  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i am a working mother  
i have three children  
and my children since i uh since they were very young  
i've had various um different alternatives child care arrangements  
and like most working mothers i'm really not defensive about it  
i personally feel uh in our particular situation i'm a much better mother when i work out of the home  
and my kids i think are very very secure well raised children  
my comment on this is that we paid an absolute fortune   over the years for a variety of opportunities  
so i i i  
you know it is a problem  
and but as you pointed out i i think the real problem is the low pay child facilities  
and that is sometimes what some women who have to work that is all they can afford  
when our children were very young we had a pay a live in paid baby sitter that   was wonderful  
and then as they got older they went to uh i preferred to call them schools  
and they were really all day preschools  
and they were wonderful  
and i think they got exposed to a lot of neat things  
but we did we really truly did pay a fortune  
i mean we were paying at one point well about about a close about five hundred dollars a week for two children  
so  
well i  
i'm a physician uh   and as is my husband  
and and i felt uh very good about working  
i'm a pediatrician actually  
so uh but i think there are some wonderful child care opportunities out there for children  
but and we all know the kind of things that you're supposed to look for i think  
oh well  
i think it's real important that you have a place that first of all parents have a lot of input into and that they're always welcome and that they have a lot of activities where parents come in during the day and that at any time you can drop in  
and we had a really wonderful arrangement uh  
i'm with the university actually  
and they had a wonderful uh program that started at age three  
and it was about a block away from the hospital where i work  
and so many times at lunchtime i would go over and visit the children and eat with them and see what they were doing  
and they had wonderful  
they had things like gardens and lots of pets  
and just they had a four to one   uh teacher student ratio  
so that that sort of an  
most of the teachers had degrees uh  
yeah  
it was incredible actually  
but it was good  
i mean it was it  
at that time there were two children  
and they were in special programs  
and each one was a little over two hundred a week  
and then in addition i paid a little bit extra  
but   the kids were  
i mean they really had some great opportunities  
but  
what you were [alluding] to earlier is you know women who work for minimal wage   and and really have feel they have to put their children  
sometimes they do put them in uh fairly low   paying situations  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
even that that really i think i don't  
it's been awhile since i've looked at  
my youngest child is eight  
so it's been a little while since i've looked into actually daycare centers  
but they are  
you know the good ones do cost maybe sixty dollars a week since  
uh_huh  
something like that  
well you know but you made the comment earlier why would someone be interested in children  
i mean it has been a real uh  
there have been some good entrepreneurial type experiences  
and i think i think they have captured a certain market  
again the  
but then there are baby sitting groups  
as a pediatrician one of the things we've been real concerned about is the infections  
as you start putting lots of little kids together the [infection] rates that go around  
okay  
uh so your you i guess you're probably in the same uh same situation uh we're in  
we're kind of past having to provide child care  
our our kids are grown up  
we don't have any grandchildren yet  
but uh uh they're  
uh one's twenty six  
and the other is uh twenty twenty one  
so they're uh uh   they're they're getting there  
you know there's no   no no prospects right away for anything to happen  
but uh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's hard  
we  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
what did you do when your kids were growing up  
were you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
he got sick  
yeah  
right  
well  
guess so  
yeah  
huh  
right  
yeah  
a little more flexibility  
you can come and go  
yeah  
when when our kids were small we had a couple of uh good good women who uh would often uh get them to come to the house  
uh_huh  
how old are your children  
uh_huh  
well they're going to be getting there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
i have uh five children  
i have a eighteen year old son  
the rest of my girls are like twenty three twenty six twenty eight and twenty nine  
and i have three granddaughters right now  
and uh i uh  
one's in iowa  
and uh she's she's a teacher  
and what she does is she   teaches at a preschool  
and and so she kind of  
and they let her bring her her little daughter in for free  
and then so  
but she just works part time  
then i have another daughter in uh [bountiful] utah  
and she has to work full time  
and it's just tearing her apart  
she has a private baby sitter  
and uh the baby just screams  
i mean the baby is like seventeen months  
and she just screams  
well even if she knows that they're fixing to get ready to go over there  
they're not even there yet   you know  
and and then i have my uh uh i have a seven month old granddaughter  
and uh her mother stays home  
and she they live they live with us you know in as orange county   is really expensive  
they live with us  
and so of course we love it because we get to see this cute little baby all the time  
but uh uh she just  
uh she used to work in pre in the preschool and and and child care  
and she says after working in there  
and and you know here she was a provider  
but you know there's only so much one person can do  
she said it's so awful  
she said she'll never put her child in a in a in a in a in a preschool  
i'm sure there must be some good ones around here somewhere  
but it's really it's really really very difficult  
and  
well when when  
the uh the first uh ten years see first ten or twelve years i stayed home  
and uh then after that i i went to work  
and uh uh uh a couple of times i just uh uh you know  
then i had one job  
and then that job ran out because it was kind of a government [seeded] type job  
and then and then like about later i i tried to get the baby to a baby sitter  
supposed to be good uh recommended person from the church  
and i knew her personally  
she had two kids of her own and everything  
but i quit my job because i couldn't stand how she was taking care of my child  
i mean first of all uh her children were sick all the time  
so when my son stayed over there he got sick  
same thing same thing that the her kids had  
right  
and so uh we didn't take her over there until like about eleven o'clock  
then he she'd take my son and her daughter over to kindergarten  
but  
that day uh i was saying now he he's sick  
and she goes well she goes he has the same thing that all my kids have  
that's what he got you know  
goes well okay  
so it's not like he's going to [infect] her kids  
but then what happened was is i said uh he just threw up  
and kindergarten starts at eleven thirty  
so she said well she'll keep him home  
and he'll probably just sleep anyway  
well you know what  
that woman sent her sent him to kindergarten  
she sent him to kindergarten  
as soon as he went there the teacher took one look at him  
and he threw up again  
and they put him in the nursery uh they put him in the [nurse's] office  
and then what happened was is you know they gave her a call because they knew that she was my baby sitter  
called her  
and they said uh that he's sick  
well she wasn't home  
i mean her all her kids were sick  
but she wasn't home right  
and her and her her daughter that was in kindergarten with him also did not go to school because she was sick  
now why didn't he why didn't she keep him home with her  
no  
she didn't do that  
so it got to the point where he's he's supposed to get out of uh kindergarten like about two thirty  
and i had to leave work  
it was it was five o'clock in the evening  
and i found out he was still there at school  
and they were calling me  
and they said somebody's got to pick him up  
and i kept thinking that she was going to get picked up she was going to pick him up because she only lives in like two blocks away from the school  
i was trying to get my husband to come and pick him up and all that kind of stuff  
and he had a hundred and four fever  
they couldn't uh give him anything because they're not allowed to at school and everything  
i was so furious  
i i quit that job  
and i stayed home for awhile longer  
then i went and got a uh a job in real estate where i can kind of adjust my time a little bit better  
yeah  
but uh i haven't had any good really very good experience with child care  
no
what um what do you think needs to be the criteria set for those
what would you like to see in one
uh_huh
yeah
i bet
uh_huh
um
yeah
yeah
oh well that's good
yeah
is it
i don't know maybe would you think a better student to teacher ratio do they have too many kids in most day cares for the people they have
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my goodness
yeah um
we don't
yeah
we don't have any but we have you know plenty of sisters and brothers that that have them and i i'm not sure that there is a solution to that as far as uh you know everybody has in their mind the kind of day care that they want
but it seems you know that there's not really the perfect one out there
right
and that's not even possible anymore
i don't think to be able to take care of your own kids without you know with everybody working these days
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
that seems probably the best way to do it
yeah
yeah
um i haven't really the only day cares that i have been familiar with are the ones that are local here with the churches and they seem to from my experience be the best at what they're doing
just because of what they're based on
oh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i i think that's that's important
uh_huh
yeah
how old are they
oh
uh_huh
well you know kids kids
do those
uh_huh
right
right
right
yeah
they're probably i would think needs to be
i don't know if they have any type of uh formal or informal [spontaneous] or routine drop ins of agencies you know people checking up on like they do nursing homes you know they drop in to see if you're meeting all of the requirements by law and and i think they need to do that with day cares and just see what's going on
so but i'm not really sure
yeah
i don't either
it's not until you have kids
i guess you worry about those things
yeah
uh_huh
well i don't know what we've done to solve any of this
but i've enjoyed talking with you
and welcome to texas
thank you
well about the only thing i know is um one of my um friends at work
um has um one little boy
and she's about to have a second baby
and i hear some of her um [tales] about trying to get uh child care now
she doesn't like to use some of the places like um kinder care or la petite academy
she likes to just find individuals
you know who take children into their home
and uh you know sometimes they have found somebody by word of mouth other times she has to go through the newspaper and see what she can find there are some um like um oh chamber of commerce you can kind of call there are some places like that that will give you some [referrals] at least but she just kind of goes and meets people that she sees advertise and and interviews with them and ask them their ways
oh
oh
yeah
there's been a few people that have kind of used the same person kind of like word of mouth one person in the department had them and then um you know other people had followed and had the same one as their child grows like some people only want little infants you know
and when they get to two years old
they don't want you know a whole lot of two years old
because they're a little more active
so they you know a lot people in the department seem to have used like the same couple of woman as their their children uh grow
but i really keep thinking that t i ought to come up with something like through texins to have you know some kind of facilities there at work because it really is uh a lot of extra pressure on our working parents
no
i think it should be done through texans
i mean i understand that that that t i wouldn't want to have liability for that
and i can understand that
i work in the legal department
i don't want anymore lawsuits than what we got
but but you know i think they could work out something with texins something that would be close to work because i think that would help ease things too if you've got your child somewhere close because i see these people you know [dashing] out the door um have to be up by a certain time because they have to go pick up their child if they don't pick up the child by a certain time then they run extra money you know to uh have late charges
and uh you know texins is is not uh well i don't think it's really directly supported by t i
i think it has it's own kind of funding but something like that that you know you would have to be a t i or a texins kind of um does it
well how would i do that
well uh again i know from the person who um you know is a friend ever mine at work
she and i i've talked to her after she's interviewed some people just really sound i mean bizarre
i mean you can't imagine that these people are putting in for um you know [minding] other children um like if you could go to the house and it seems to be in a disarray and the woman really isn't even dressed and it's afternoon and and you ask her about you know previous children
and she won't talk about it
kind of go okay
um others if they have some way of handling like i kind of wonder about these women who take in children
there are times that you're going to have to do
you know for the women they're going to have to do some personal things themselves
i mean every single day they may have you know every once in a while they may have some kind of um personal doctor appointment or got to get the car fixed or something like that
how do they do that
so you ask them do you have a fall back you know for those times are you going to put me in a bind or do you have somebody else who can take care of the kids or do those things for you on the times that you need to you know have personal time off and do those items
and ask them you know who else uh have they you know baby sat for in the past and can you talk to them look at the facilities and ask them
what kind of things they do to you know during the day with the child that kind of thing
i guess
uh_huh
um
um
uh_huh
um oh do you know one time i um we just got married a couple of years ago
and there was people that were coming you know into town with uh children
and and i wanted you know baby sitters for uh the service
and and available to them if they didn't want to bring their children or you know get away and stuff
and i just called in the from the yellow pages you know a baby sitter outfits that are um again must have some kind of licensing or whatnot and uh just had them
i mean what i did was i had a baby sitter during the service you know and and um anybody who had children could just you know take the child to the nursery
and i had somebody there
everybody i knew was going to be at the wedding
so i knew i had to find somebody
i didn't know to do that
um and it worked out okay
i didn't know that there were services that you just called the yellow pages and uh there's baby sitters are us or something
and you say please i need one you know
oh yeah
no problem
we'll send you out one
uh i thought i checked into it one time just pre planning and it can run like a hundred dollars a week
i think my friend who now has a uh uh a two and a half year old she spends about fifty to sixty dollars per week for him
so i think it's anywhere from like fifty to a hundred depending on the place you take
yeah
yeah
it gets to be kind of expensive
and i think you know some of the woman do uh weigh that um we've had some that have had their children and not come back
so it just depends
i think uh well we have one now who um is is part time she works half days
well actually we have two one paralegal
and one secretary
and one attorney each have very young children and now they are part timing it is kind of like a test to see how this will work to have these people work part time
uh depending on the responsibilities that we're giving them and to see how that will workout because they all want to you know still have a little income to help out financially
but they want to spend time with their children
so they're part timers and uh for the one that's working with me it's working very well i don't have any problem with that
i have one that's um helping me out at um for the litigation we're doing
and she's there uh three days a week
and this that seems to be fine
i can handle that very well with her being there only half time
next week
oh
yeah
well it's whatever they feel comfortable with you know basically whatever they feel best
and there's probably some women who may not do their child any good being there all the time because you know they they they can't uh quite see themselves you know dedicated that much maybe they want to work a little bit
whatever it is maybe they should think about
do you really want a child or not
and maybe again you know their their you know their ideas change once the baby is there they go oh well you know
now i like this a lot more than i thought i would
but uh [cathlene] the part timer she says you know she just doesn't she she's always one of these [workaholic] kind of people
and she just really can't sit still enough to just be home with the baby she has to have you know something else
she's always been one who's put in you know like the fifty to sixty hour work week
and after she had the baby she was coming back in to check her office and to check her in box you know like ten days later
she was back in and we were like [cathlene] you got two months off you know you don't have to be back in there
she's just always back in there
and she's
well tell me about you said your daughter had some of this
why don't you tell me a little bit about that
without a completely
oh my gosh
really isn't any substitute for mothers
no
it's very bad
i found out
seen the thing that scares everybody to death
right
i think maybe when you talk about the criteria that's the one thing is to is to somehow get to know well enough
what
where you're putting this child
and if you know your child
well then then you know whether this is going to work sometimes some of these things work out well uh interesting enough
my daughter uh just started working in uh in a day care center
she needed to go to work
and she has two little boys
one's about uh uh almost five and the other's almost three and uh uh they were driving her crazy because they were never busy enough you know
she couldn't ever do enough things to keep them uh away from the television and uh uh
and that sort of thing
and uh so but she looked at places to work for along time before she finally chose one that she said she could not have been comfortable in any of the others because uh this one's kind of laid back a little bit you know
it's kind of [flows] with the children
like her children play in another area
but they're welcome to come and sit on her lap anytime they feel like it
and uh and she can go by and wave at them you know and talk to them and visit with them and she gets this feeling of uh of uh [intermingling] with them and yet they get the activity of the other children which they seem to need at this point
yes
there's a lot of times when you need some of that
but the idea of of having nothing else is what's uh and
uh_huh
no
right
it's very difficult
costs so much
but you can't hardly afford to work even when you have to
yeah
there are some ways [rightly] so you know it's a sad thing that uh that you realize the child care if it's done right is probably the most demanding job in the world
and if they real are good at it
you're probably not paying them any too much
and yet and yet it's uh you can't get something else to do
i guess uh that's probably the reason [sheila] felt like going that direction
uh i have a niece that stayed here to that uh uh they were here for about six months with their two two little girls and uh she look in children here at my house
while she was here uh you know not many like three
others
and uh uh we have a big house
so it wasn't a problem
and she uh but it was kind of an it was interesting watching her you know her interaction with the children
she didn't do anything else all day
she just sat and played and [intermingled] with them you know and read to them and change their pants and fed them
and moved them from one thing to another
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
that's true
i think so too
i think that's the answer
i think it's got to come through the work place where they where uh uh a parent can take a child and may be even have an area an isolation area where children who are ill
can be there
and uh you know if there not too ill uh
and uh and a parent can go and do her work
and there is somebody there who can do it think of how many jobs they would supply people who
are not trained to do other kinds of things
and with the right kind of supervision you know if you had somebody who who really knows what she's doing supervise other people you could really go a long ways to [alleviating] some of the problems that people have
and so
well it's been great talking to you
right
uh perhaps we'll talk again
now what do you mean by letting go
uh_huh
right
right
well uh gosh my kids are older now
so i feel like that that my uh choices are are different
than when i first when i first went back to work uh you're right
i i wanted to have somebody who came into the house and who performed you know certain functions
and that closeness and i noticed that as the older they got you know the less and less picky
i got about that uh uh that criteria
uh but you know now uh you know i wish there was somebody not so much to baby sit the kids
but tutor them in homework
really
really
so but
uh_huh
oh see
and that would have been wonderful
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
those uh those people who can uh stay you know home and and take care of the kids and uh you know do that
i think are really special people
uh so you just don't find that anymore
uh even now the the day cares though are so expensive
that uh i don't know how parents afford them
right
right
oh yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i i think it's gone up to like a hundred dollars a week and depending on on what age they are
and uh you know if you want quality day care to where they have uh not only just their meals taken care of those basic necessities
but also uh their education too
uh_huh
because
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh yeah
so it's a
i i think it's changed over the years uh
but you know i found uh like i said they at least when my kids were growing up that uh it was harder
especially companies didn't have programs to where they would help you find
baby sitters uh_huh
that's right
that's right
because
uh_huh
no
but you know i've read uh you know some stories uh about that
and uh now now i don't do you know of anybody
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
no
i just you know read in a uh-oh
i don't know the the want columns uh but i guess when i had thought about it since i've been a single parent for so long that uh you know i wished i had the money for something like that because of the special uh-oh
i don't know the uh the special closeness that bond that's formed versus taking them to a day care where they just they're one of many children
yeah
so that's a that's to me that's extra special uh_huh
sure
sure
right
right
yeah
it it could be age
but you know i i can never regret regret uh the children uh going through that day care experience because they learned so many things uh such as responsibility independence uh you know that sharing
i mean there are a lot of good things
i i know there's a lot of drawbacks to women going back to to work
but uh i think there was so many positives that that i saw
uh that i really didn't have that much guilt about it
yeah
that made it real easy
hi
patty we're supposed to talk about uh child care
my children are all grown
you don't have any
well some day you will
and then then you'll be real selective about choosing a child care
right
well you know all about them then well tell me about it
you didn't like the director
yeah
uh_huh
oh boy i bet it did
my wife worked at a child care quite a few years ago
and she liked
it all right
oh i think she worked there about two years
uh
two or three years
well we had small children at the time
see
so so uh it worked out pretty good
she'd be there with some of them
and and uh it worked out real good
it was a church school where we we went to church there
and uh she worked there
but uh i have uh all my children are grown now
and they have their children in day care one one of them keeps her child with a with a relative though
and uh but the other one has used a day care for her children
and uh
yeah
they uh her husband's sister and she needs the money and and plus you know she's close
and gives them good care
and and she has kids too
and he's just a baby
but he does enjoy though she has twins
and they're two or three years older than him
but they all spoil him you know
and he he likes it watching
them play and everything
but uh
oh gosh i'm sure it was
i wouldn't you couldn't pay me to work in one
you know you got to like you just got to you know not mind children that much
but uh
well of course that's just the way they are
yeah
and when you don't have children of your own that's not
a lot of fun
is it
well but you probably will some day [reckon] huh
well yeah
but you got plenty of time to do that you sound pretty young
but uh so i don't have a whole lot of experience with day care centers myself now either
was it in dallas
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh yeah
uh_huh
i thought it might have been something that the state required
but that wouldn't
that wouldn't
apply to that would it
uh_huh
they didn't make sense
yeah
well and it
those kind it probably didn't pay a whole lot either
so if it didn't pay a whole lot
it's hard to put up with a lot of that mickey mouse stuff that's my other line
no
i'll just ignore it
yeah
i'll just
i'll just ignore it
if they want anything they'll little while
and uh since we got
yeah
yeah
i have four grandchildren
yeah
well neither one of them have them in a day care center
right now
but uh uh my my daughter that has three sons she is you still there aren't you
i guess it was that thing hung up uh she had him in one and was real happy with it
and then got unhappy with it
and then she moved him to another one
and was just real happy with it
it's in garland
so uh she had really i'd say she had pretty good experiences with them
oh oh yeah
the one the first one she quit they lost his medicine
sent it home with another kid and it made her mad
but i mean that's you know you got fifty kids there
i could
see that happening
but of course you lose fifty dollar bottle of medicine
but it looks like
well it looks like they would whoever took it home would have brought it back
but anyway it made her real mad
that's why she left it
but other than that i mean uh you know they'd been real good too
so i'd i'd say she's had really you know real good experiences with them
nothing no horror stories or you know of course they're regulated pretty strictly by the state
all right [sandra] uh what we are supposed to talk about this morning are
and i i can tell that you are must be an expert
child care services
and my my first question is what criteria is normally applied by a parent when they are selecting child care
what are they looking for in other words uh_huh
what age would you say uh a child should be before you could start applying this business of teaching them a little bit preschool information we talking what six or seven
or four or five
uh_huh
they do seem to have a very much improved uh intellectual sort of a spirit and they're bright they look around and and they they know what's going on
that's that i guess that's as important to say
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i'm trying to think uh yes
we've had our children in day care a little bit but not much i the the interesting comment i was going to make was that when my children grew up
i felt very normal and uh with them
and i didn't consider a lot of these little details that we're talking about
but now that my grandchildren are growing up
i look at them in a totally different style
i i watch very closely their activities when i see them and i can i can tell
when they're speaking more clearly the next day
and and when they are understanding situations more carefully
and i i don't remember doing it
maybe i did automatically with my own children
but uh i'm just looking with a much higher technical detail at at the grandchildren
well i wish i did
i'm still working
but i'll be retiring soon
it's it's just that uh with grandchildren they are for a short period of time
and you just look at them and you absorb anything you can from them
and uh you start comparing when you get from them with what you got from your own children
but it was really a different environment
something like that
well let me ask you this
is it difficult to find a day care when you have a a specific criteria of your own is that is that hard to find
i see
yeah
uh_huh
that's true
yes
sure
my my daughter my oldest daughter lives in amsterdam holland
and they have over there
what they call a [kresh]
well fortunately my children are pretty much beyond that
it certainly is
yes
um our y m c a has after school child care um at several of the schools
so that they don't even have to
you know go any where yeah um
and then for other schools that they don't have it at the school they have it at the y
and they pick them up in a a you know a van or whatever
i think it kind of depends on how many students
oh okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's always nice too
i did that when mine were were littler the first couple of years that i i worked only halftime when my first child was born and and he just stayed with a friend or somebody that maybe had one child you know his age
um
and that always seemed to work out real well
and you know when somebody would decide to quit or something
i always felt real [panicky] but i always seemed to manage to find somebody that i felt was just as wonderful as the other one you know
so it seemed to work out
um uh when i had my second one i stayed home for three and a half years
and then and then went back
right
right
unfortunately the preschool that i wanted the second one to go to because my first one had is a preschool that does not have any day care at all
but it's such a wonderful preschool
so i had to find somebody else to keep them and then and then somebody to take them there
so that's always another problem
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
but then that's awfully expensive too
well i mean if
so you have someone come into your home
that would be real nice
but just almost almost cost prohibitive prohibitive
you know
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well you just worked period huh
if you had six children
yeah
oh
where did the girl come middle
oh that's good
uh_huh
right
yeah
that's true
it's true
well how cold
is it up there
oh okay
well it's about fifty here
so
uh no
it's quit
yeah
it was bad there for a little bit
but uh anyway
i'm a librarian
uh_huh
yeah
i like that a lot
and i kind of wanted to continue it even though my children were you know when they were born
but like i said i was able to stay home for those three years
so it made a difference
uh_huh
to get out
yeah
that's true
i think
everybody feels that way
at times at least
and then also that you'd love to be home at at other times
but uh one thing i think it does do is it it it forces it forces you to make your children be organized
and
okay um well why don't you go ahead and start because you have more experience
it sounds like
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
oh goodness
uh_huh
oh goodness
so
do they know what they're saying though
do they seem to know the words that they're saying
because they're they're real young
yeah
because that could be a blessing further down the road
but it can also be a problem now
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
oh goodness
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
they'll be because at this age they're real real young
and they could pick up any kind of language
it's it's amazing how easy they can learn well i've uh i got two children as well
my oldest is eight
and my youngest is four
and i used to teach and when my first one was born
i was lucky enough to be able to choose whether i wanted to work or not
and even though i had just gotten my master's degree i chose to stay home just because i worried a lot about child care
and really wanted to be able to be that person that raised my children
and i like you're feeling the frustration of what they're picking up on
that's exactly the worries that i had is that i worried about what kind of things they might be exposed to or pick up on and i was just really paranoid
and i guess just decided to be my own child's care giver
and at times i've regretted it because i miss working with adults
and uh you know speaking regular language more than uh the children's you know kind of language
right
and as a cartoon once said i would like to have dinner with someone who can cut their own meat and that kind of thing
um but now i'm getting at the at the stage where i will need to go back to work and so i'm looking at this issue
and my four year old is just at the point where she'll be starting kindergarten next year which is still only half day
so we'll still have to look at that kind of of setup for her
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
oh are you
so am i
yeah
what part
oh okay
i was in the phoenix uh mesa area
oh okay
uh_huh
oh yeah
because now you're depending on other people that you don't know
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's right
yeah
and even if you have someone there right at your own house doing that kind of day care you still always have that little worry i'm sure
so that that is a problem
what kind of criteria do you look for when you are shopping around
okay um
have you had any experience in trying to find child care
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
really
okay
well i've done more or less the same we have five children
and um
uh yeah
i just haven't found it equitable to work outside the home
and so i have done the day care inside my home
well i've done it for seven years
and uh it's pretty well driven me crazy
oh
oh was it oh
uh_huh
that's true
sometimes they do offer a just a play time for your kids
uh_huh
okay
oh my goodness
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
no
no
you don't
oh good
oh how fun
uh_huh
oh good
uh_huh
that would be fun
yeah
that's good for the kids and then it's fun for you too to have that little break during the week
oh now on that co op um do women just trade [babysitting] or
oh
oh
uh_huh
oh gosh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my goodness
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
well that sounds like a terrific idea
any uh child care situations or experiences
right
yeah
right
well i've got three kids
the oldest is nine
and the youngest is three
and we have actually a live in child care worker here that we you know a nanny that lives here and that makes it very easy for us
yeah
we've had um we're on our um our third our our our second long term person you know that's been just about two years for each of the two people that we've had
and prior to that we had to take child care
we took the kids to somebody else's home and that worked out okay
but it wasn't that great
well you know it was just it was partly the convenience and partly you know the woman the women that took care of our kids also had kids of their own
and the households were a little hectic you know how it sometimes is
oh yes
definitely without a doubt
i'm you know it's like having a a young adult in the family just about
but that's okay
i mean you know as long as their problems don't get too far out of hand
well
a little bit of a problem
but you know that's just reality of it
and you know you have to work with them and tell them ahead of time that somebody's leaving and somebody else is going to be coming in and help them adjust to the situation
oh the youngest is three and the oldest is nine
and the middle one is six and the after school school situation is great
it's really convenient to have somebody whose job
it is to make sure that they get home and and you know are taken care of properly
oh yeah
it it's expensive it'll it'll probably have to change when they get you know all old enough to go to school of some after school service our local y m c a has something like
well yeah
to a certain extent
uh i guess you know my wife does more of that sort of
i mean she she and the and the caretaker have intense discussions about that
and i suppose i'm sort of a slug for not getting more involved
but that's the way it is
yeah
oh it works out pretty well i think it's a good plan
uh i think it's kind of [disgraceful] that it's so hard for so many people
well yeah
oh no doubt if one of us got laid off
she'd be gone in two seconds
i'm afraid i'm or have to
oh we've got those situations
and you know we've got to deal with that kind of stuff
but but it's absolutely
you know situation like ours you know where we could make enough money to cover it properly you know both
we both work
and then we pay the pay the nanny and we pay the
do you have children
okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's a hard process isn't it
i'm kind of at the other extreme i have a nine month old and one that will be born in october
so
oh really
yeah
that's when my [nephew's] birthday is
and he goes well you should have it on the fifteenth so we'll see
yeah
it's that close
i he definitely
i had an unusual situation in my home
my father was was alcoholic
but uh and very [withdrawn] at that
and so my husband is ten times more involved
and we have more of a uh i guess a christian based home and so we try to make the family as important as we can
and uh and i guess you don't have to have a christian based home to to feel that way
but that's just part of our priorities
that's right
it certainly gives you some some specific goals to work towards
but uh he helps a lot with her
he helps feeding her changing her and playing with her
and and i think he has to be conscious of of uh needing to spend time with her
if not then he gets wrapped up in the t v and the newspaper
and whatever else
and he says oh i didn't spend time with emily
but if he forgets i try to to help to him
remember
i think so
i think uh i've been reading a lot lately about the children of alcoholics syndrome
i don't know if you've heard of that or not
but uh trying to relate that to me
and i think because i had a strong christian background personally it affected me differently than it affected my sisters
and i see myself uh with some of those qualities but with not quite as much anger as i see them towards him or towards my mother with certain things
and uh as far as me personally i think it made me appreciate my husband more because he doesn't do certain things that my dad did
so i
uh_huh
i think that's that's how i feel too
i feel a need to dominate certain things
and i try real hard not to be too [domineering] with with emily because i don't want to my mother was also a [domineering] type of personality because she had to take over the things that my dad fell short in
and i find you know i think
okay
i want emily to be this way
and this is what i'm going to do to make her be that way
and then i think
no
you can't do that
she has to develop her own personality and so sometimes i i have to step back and say okay we want to encourage her
we want to influence her
but we don't want to control her
and so far it hasn't been too hard
but she hasn't been making a whole lot of decisions on her own yet
and so you know i guess i'm i'm just going to have to be real conscious of that as i as she gets older and does start making decisions
and be conscious that i need to give her options
but not make the decisions for her
uh i i look at myself
and i have three sisters
there's four daughters in the family
i look at myself compared to my [sisters'] families and see that one of them married an abusive husband
one of them married an alcoholic uh the other one married into a pretty stable relationship
and mine is pretty stable or much more stable
i think probably than any of them
but now i waited until i was thirty to get married and they all married at eighteen
but uh uh well my dad in his [alcoholism] he was kind of irritating
and there were a few times
he was violent towards my mother
but it was almost he like if he had any opinions to give he would tell my mother and she would tell us
and so we had almost no direct relationship with him
i mean he was there
and and we you know did little things together as a family
but on the whole there was no no direct communication no show of affection no
even no show of anger unless it
he was you know really really drunk
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i see
my father relating much better to the grandchildren than he did to us
not completely no
he he still has a problem with it
and he goes in stages
but he still you know he will pick up my one of my granddaughters and say you know give her a hug and say i love you
and the first time he said i love you to me was when i had been away from home for almost a year and a half
yeah
it
i said i love you dad i miss you
and then he said was able to say it back
and and i was twenty four and that's the first time i'd heard him say anything you know similar to that
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
they went through that entire process
yeah
uh_huh
i think too that with us as women being out of the home
i'm not working now i didn't work until about from about the time emily was about four months before she was
born and but so many women are having children and returning to the work field that the the dads you know have to to follow through or a third person has to come in and follow through with with the the care and the dads are are doing more
and that bond is starting you know like you said right at the beginning
and then developing it's not breaking at any point
at least it shouldn't and and and and in a good family
it isn't
unfortunately there's so many families where there isn't a father in the home
it's just
yeah
that's right
yeah
yeah
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
they see you go through the problems and still come out okay working together
uh_huh
yes
yeah
well that sounds good
do you know something about how to take care of kids
it is what i i do not know i have got mine
well
yeah
i i do not have kids yet uh
i am work for a couple uh for at least two or three years
and my wife is planning on probably taking care of them at that point uh
yeah
that is actually
yeah
what i have been i am thinking of the child care center
because they have like licensing procedures
and and stuff like that that seems to me you know good
and i mean it is a state license to seemingly more often than not
it means that they are good
and they have lots of activities and people who know how to take care of the kids and some
uh_huh
with somebody else yeah
oh i agree
and i wonder
actually i wonder about costs because most people i know who who have kids you know uh one parent does not work a part of the time you know only works part time and takes care of the kid part time
and then it turns out that that person's salary just winds up going to paying the people who who who take care of the kids you know that which amazes me uh uh i you know it never occurred to me how expensive that sort of thing can be
yeah
yeah
that
yeah
i do not i do not you know i just it
yeah
it is it is strange thing because people do
i mean in that sense it probably is pretty good to go out and just who cares if it if if all your salary goes to pay somebody you sort of get away for a while too
we have
i do not i do not uh it is strange
it is funny that i should get this particular we should be on this topic
now because uh because we have even though we have no kids
we have people staying with us
uh for the for the for the for the the weekend
and they have a six a six year old son and a three month old son
so i am just sort of seeing what all the hassles are you know of
you know like last night we we we the six year old decided he wanted to go camping in the back yard
so we pitched a tent in the back yard actually and his father and and the little boy
and i all went out and had you know a a a boys' night out in the back yard
and about quarter of one he woke up half crying
and he could not sleep
and this and that i mean we wanted to bring him inside
so one about a one o'clock in the morning
we all got up and sort of wandered inside
all the benefits of taking care of kids or all the fun part of taking care of kids i guess
yeah
we plan on a couple of years
and i suspect issues like child care will become very important to my life then you know
yeah
that that that is probably true
although i i do not i do not like you say i don't know if i would put a kid there who is less than you know uh four years old
or something
yeah
probably just to make friends and and stuff like that
yeah
i if it is just like i say this is a very foreign topic for me
so
one of those things
i have to learn about
i do i work with kids
a lot
i i do work with kids
a lot
i uh i i do uh uh i teach a karate class twice a week
with with with kids
uh they are four to seven
actually there is one at
i work mostly with four to seven
and then eight to twelve
i i am i am the class supervisor
so i i help out in this class and uh and it is really um weird because i am not you know the when i first started doing it
i i can put it this way
it it has helped me gain lots of respect for people who can work with lots large numbers of kids
because when i first started like i had no idea how to how to handle a five year old kid especially when there are ten of them floating around
and you are supposed to be running around teaching them things
and of course
uh i i do
but i am finding there is there is uh another person there who has he has got absolutely no training from what i know
but he is just wonderful with kids
and he seems to know how to hold their attention you know he keeps them she does lots of you know he is he is he is fast moving with them they will do this exercise
and they will do that they will do this
they will do that
he keeps them moving quick enough that you know when they stop losing attention they start you know they are all of a sudden they are switched and you know there are a couple in there who actually have uh who i think have attention deficit disorders or they have a very very low attention
and those are harder to work with
but you know
but i i i i uh the regular ones you know the normal kids you can just let them go a little bit
and and and he sort of
he is real good at keeping them in line
and i am learning from him how to do these sort of things just just by watching him
no
it is it is boys and girls
it it it it is mixed there are uh there are uh more boys than girls
but there are a number of number of girls in there who actually uh do some good stuff and beat up a lot of the little girls
i mean i mean a lot of the little boys too
uh in some case actually a lot of parents send their kids or just bring their kids because because of the sort of discipline
you know
and it is it is not we do not you know say get down and do a hundred push ups for me now you little guy
but uh it teaches we we we focus very highly on you know on on on issues of respect and self discipline and self confidence we have a lot of kids who come in very shy you know and [unsure] of themselves
and and you can see them come you know week by week that they come more and more out of their shells and start to become you know more sociable
and
okay
um do you have children of your own
oh you do
what ages are they
oh my
sound like a busy parent
i have two a seven year old and three and a half mine are both girls
yeah
oh do you and your wife both work
well that's nice
i i stay home too
yeah
to me that's the ideal situation
but i did work part time when i had
just one child
and uh i'm pretty picky about my criteria of child care
i i don't care too much for day care centers and preschool
well you know schools where the children stay all day long
and so i i think the thing that i would think was most important is if they're getting the individual attention that they need from an adult
and i don't think they get enough of it
yeah
mine's pretty low too uh the lady that i left my daughter with only kept only had two other children besides my daughter
so
three to one i felt comfortable with
i think if it got much more than that
i would start feeling like someone was going to be left out
yeah
right
well i think once
my uh child got to be maybe four years old
i might feel a little better about a larger group setting
but up until that time
both of my girls had such passive personalities that if they had been around a whole lot of other children
i really think they would have been you know taken for granted
some of the other kids would have pushed them around and um probably taken advantage of them a little bit
what do you think
yeah
no
no
oh i didn't even hear one
no
it might have been i have call waiting
but if
so i'll just try later
that's fine
yeah
you said that uh you would like if your wife had to go back to work
you probably
would prefer that they stayed in a home
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
right
yeah
i don't know
see i feel real sorry for couples where both people are you know have to work to make ends meet
because you're kind of you know stuck there
i i know that um if i had to go to work right now i would really have a hard time finding someone because i
baby sitters are just really hard to come by especially real good ones
and you know ones that uh don't keep that many children and give them the individual attention that i think they need and that kind of thing
so i would really be hard pressed to find something that i felt like was quality child care
so i don't know i feel real sorry for you know working moms that are really looking hard
and trying to do a good job with their kids
i'm just thankful i'm able to stay home
it makes the choice a lot easier
wow
that's great
oh i know
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
we feel that way
i mean even now it's really hard to make ends meet even with two children
so i can imagine with four
but you learn how to to stretch money
how to use hand me downs and that kind of thing
really makes a big difference too
but i don't know
i uh i worked at a little preschool
it was a private one you know like a church sponsored type thing
where it was only two days a week tuesday and thursday from like nine until two
and even that i was not totally satisfied with the way the kids were treated
uh
uh_huh
yeah
oh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
even if it's in the home
i think this is important
even if it's a private home situation
and not a day care
um probably number one too would be close references if you know people that have had the experience that they hands on experience of one
would be very important word of mouth
um friends
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
and all of course better business
i would check any of your business um any type of thing references of that type as well as your word of mouth if you were putting them in uh uh school or any day care type you know that's public
you know what i mean
like a church or a school type thing
i would check that awfully close um i'd go in often
unexpectedly unexpectedly wherever they where
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i wouldn't do that
i mean i wouldn't not put my child in there
though
would you you know i would never have a controlled situation not with a little one
especially you know that's not a not a good situation on that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
that's real important i believe so too
to meet the and administrators as well
and really kind of research it and get an idea of how they feel about things
you know
have your questions ready on their feelings on things and all kind of how they basically anyway because they you know that's um seventy percent of your child's life
you know is developing is there
so that's real important do you have any children in it yourself
your sister is
uh_huh
yeah
it's a scary thing my daughter has been in houston and had to do it you know just out of the cold she's had to
but she's been real fortunately in finding women in their homes
and uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh wow
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
not the best situation
yeah
yeah
that's for sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
right
and what you would want done right
yeah
uh_huh
i would think so
yeah
uh_huh
the cleanliness and the care health care
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
no
yeah
i agree
uh cause i suppose when when i do start having children uh i'd like to stay home for a while
but uh you know eventually i'd i might have to put them in day care to work
and i think it's hard to find uh good day care because just the other night uh on the news in milwaukee uh they're closing down a day care because uh the lady who owns uh slapped a child
and uh she had a lot of uh like uh what did she have uh like tickets against her uh saying that the
she didn't have proper food uh prepared for them
and that it was just dirty
and and she didn't take very good care of the kids and you know you don't want to send your kids to place like that
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
or you have to uh it's pretty expensive
i
the college i go to
they have uh child care
uh there but you still have to pay you know it doesn't come with them
no
i don't
right
it's like uh uh if you do work most of the money goes back into taking care of your child you might as well stay home
if you're married
right
yeah
i've i've heard a lot of things about that too
uh with some people say it's not healthy for your children to be in day care
and you know other's say it is
so i don't know
uh no
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that is it's a tough decision
uh_huh
uh i think it's for the students
yeah
i don't know if it it's it makes sense to have it for the teachers too
but uh i'm not really sure i haven't looked into it
i don't need it
uh yeah
my mom stayed home uh she had four kids
and she stayed home with all of us until i got into about kindergarten
and then she went uh back to work after right
uh
for a while she was there uh when i got home
but then uh
and she started working later until like four
and i would come home first
and i and my brothers and sisters were all older than me so
okay  
we're rolling  
i uh  
what what would you what would has your experience lead you to advise uh if my child were thinking of going to the air force academy  
what would you say  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how do you feel about  
it must be a somewhat different environment from a regular college  
how does that uh  
how do you feel that is for someone at at that phase in their life  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i sort of  
one of the reasons it's taken so long is i've been working all you know   sort of half student half working and source of income and stuff  
so i'm actually managing to do this with zero debt  
uh i couldn't you couldn't do it otherwise  
yeah  
i think if there's any major piece of advice i'd give is to find a way of getting an education that doesn't incur that kind of debt  
it's not  
i mean i remember seeing an article one time about you know if the average person who spent that much money going to college just took the same amount of money and put it in a a in an investment fund they'd be considerably wealthier than they would be from the job they'd get after college  
so it's it's really kind of crazy  
uh_huh  
really  
huh  
yes  
yes  
i know  
i was actually i i was thinking of trying to get a job there  
i heard of it  
uh uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well my my real feeling about about the purpose of undergraduate education is it's really the time  
yes  
you do get an education you do learn some things  
but you eventually forget most of it  
but what you don't forget is the growing up  
it's really the period when people become adults  
i mean people who don't go to college become adults in other ways  
but really  
it's the entry into [adulthood] i think  
and i think that the best way to choose a college is to decide what kind of environment you want to be [fostered] in as you become you know as you gain new social skills as you become you know more of a functioning member of society  
and maybe the air force academy is a perfect  
as you said for someone who you know a more you know who needs to learn self discipline and so forth would be appropriate for them  
yeah  
and want to develop that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the same patterns of behavior you mean  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
it's i find it kind of sad  
i really do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
in high school everyone sort of tries to have the same opinion it seems  
yeah  
the the one thing i think that's no good for anyone is these monster institutions  
these institutions of thirty thousand students and such  
and i see some freshmen wandering around in there  
and they're they're just like you know someone from the country lost in the big city  
i mean   they they  
i don't see them getting  
i mean when i was undergraduate i went to a relatively small school for my first two years  
and then i transferred to a very large school  
and that worked out pretty well  
i went from a you know a second rate institution to a higher rate institution  
but the first couple of years it doesn't matter to me what the quality of the education was  
i needed to make friends  
i needed to sort of learn the [ropes]  
you know there were things like that that [mattered] a lot more  
and i needed basic really simple education that you can get pretty much anywhere for the first couple of years  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
and if you're [alienated]  
i mean i see people at supposedly really good universities who are just having psychological problems   that you think this isn't sinking in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's sort of a a rare select environment  
yeah  
right  
right  
sure  
yeah  
it's a top rated institution  
and now i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i i had known a lot of [undergraduates] who pick schools because they want the best reputation for a school   not realizing that the reputation for m i t is because of the of the doctorate research   and the professors who go there  
and you're not going to see the professors  
you know you're going to see some t a you know  
uh so they they they want you know they want the best  
and they don't think they think what the best is is   reputation for for research  
and that's a one standard  
but it's not relevant   to what they need  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
you won't get that at m i t or virtually or anything like that  
and you you know and you can't blame the professors either   because you look at their job description  
you'd you know  
teaching is third down on the list of importance things  
and  
yeah  
and and that's appropriate if the university is trying to do serious research because it's hard to be a researcher and a teacher at the same time  
so i'd say go to a go to a college that has teachers  
people who really are committed to the students and can afford to be because that's their job  
but oh well  
uh_huh  
well i'd encourage it  
it's a good general education for a a bachelor's degree  
and obviously and obviously it's where they don't have a any post graduate program there  
but you get a an excellent wide uh basis of topics  
you know you get a good broad education out of it  
you don't they don't graduate the best engineers or the best english majors but   maybe a graduate pretty good overall students out of there  
uh  
well the for some people it's good because they maybe they need a little discipline need a little [reining] in at that that stage in their life  
uh other people  
it uh it's uh [suffocating]  
you know you kind of choke on it  
uh it it depends on the person   on the individual  
but uh the one factor i think more than anything else in this day and age that's got to be a big factor in your [decision's] just the the cost of how much you're going to pay   no matter where you go to school  
and if you've been in for twelve years i'm sure you've   you've got a your share of student loans that uh you're probably going to be paying off or have been  
or  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
oh i mean i know people that graduated or that i went to high school with that went to civilian colleges  
and they they've got twenty thirty thousand dollar debts  
i mean you could have uh  
yeah  
exactly  
it's it's staggering when you think that just here in central new york is uh  
hamilton college is just a few miles south of you know maybe about twenty miles to the south from where i am  
and uh they're looking for twenty two thousand dollars for tuition and room and board now  
a year  
at just a small  
i mean they they they are it is a select   college  
oh yeah  
but you're talking incredible [tuitions] now  
i don't know how many people actually pay the whole shot  
very few i would imagine  
but uh i get  
i just couldn't  
i mean it's more money that i make in a year  
so  
you know it you know  
me being one person with a above the [median] income   for new york state you know  
i'm a i'm a second lieutenant in the air force now  
and   uh i  
even as a somebody making twice what i was making how could you put half of that into   to your child's education  
and then just when they make made make it to the college years it's  
my god i can't imagine  
yes  
or it's also a good environment  
it may be good for someone who already has self discipline who has a certain amount of leadership quality in their own   that  
and that  
yeah  
the  
it's the same  
it can benefit different people different ways  
but uh you know i i agree with that because i see people that i know again from high school   that i still keep in touch with   that didn't go to college  
and they do the same old things they did in high school and   same patterns of behavior   same uh same socializing same exact crowd that they hang with  
and it's like it's like frozen time you know  
it is  
it really is that they haven't found anything anything better that uh  
or their their experiences haven't been broadened at all   to to you know you know  
it's it's a it's a tremendous thing when you sit in a in a college environment and discuss some issues and really sit there with people with [disagreeing] opinions  
and you hear all these different sides of the story   that you never thought of  
and uh that's another big thing i think people get out of college is the [appreciation] for different point [differing] points of view   you know or different opinions  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
oh i  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well your [education's] a lot what you make of it too  
so  
yeah  
well i i've seen more graduates from m i t  
and that  
being  
i work in a in a an air force laboratory  
and so we've got a lot of uh m i t graduates that are in there  
and they are the biggest collection of screwed up people that i think i've ever run into  
even even more so uh like military academy [grads] are a strange lot too  
i i mean i have to confess to that  
yeah  
and they have their own [quirks] and tolerances and   you know certain things that don't bother us at all   that would drive other people nuts  
and then certain things that  
ways things we do  
the way we do it that drive other people nuts that  
but these m i t [grads] are off in their absolute own world  
it it's a  
i i have more i have a lot of respect for m i t master's and doctorate uh   degrees  
but they're [undergrads] are like  
i i'm amazed at at that's a lot of them even graduated  
but uh i don't know  
right  
right  
nope  
yeah  
no  
it's interesting that you mention  
and i didn't think about that before when you were talking  
but the service [academies] have all all the faculty uh for the most part is is military with a few exchange   professors from other   schools  
but uh having the military faculty is really beneficial because they see it as doing their job and spending time with the [cadets] there uh is investing in the air force  
and it  
or the the military itself it's the future officer corps  
and so i hear horror stories from friends of mine that they could never see their instructors  
they could never get extra help  
for me any time i needed extra help any time of the day   i had all my instructors home phone numbers  
and could call them  
you go to their office anytime  
i had some instructors that uh would invite me over to their house for extended study things on weekends   when i was having trouble with something  
and  
no  
no  
and that  
no  
right  
right  
publish first  
and the  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
it's there's a lot of factors that people don't ever ever consider   in in their selection of a college  
and uh i don't know  
maybe i wonder if if they enter these conversations that people have been having uh  
okay um well  
the first thing  
uh what do you think you would offer as far as uh information about selecting a school  
uh_huh  
yeah uh  
do you do you feel that the first two years that the um  
depending upon the field i know there are some fields which a person should go to the school that school all four years  
but i know there are some fields where it's really not necessary  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
what was your degree in  
political science oh  
okay  
well i i know i'm going to school right now  
and uh i have a friend  
uh u t d  
university of texas dallas  
i know  
that's where texas instruments is  
um something that i i think that i've noticed that  
i i have a friend  
i think if you're going into like uh law or medicine a very particular very specific field even even engineering you can get you can meet a lot of the requirements at a public um institution  
and uh it's a lot cheaper  
my parents my parents made a mistake in uh in sending my sister to a private institution for the first two years  
and she found out after that  
she said you know my parents they just they really wasted a lot of money  
this is about twenty years ago  
but uh well right now i just  
i mean as far as selecting selecting a school i i i feel that uh a lot of it depends upon the major  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm i'm pursuing what they what's what's called an [interdisciplinary] field  
i'm a speech therapy major  
and fortunately i have a lot of i have a good medical background  
and  
yeah  
it's it's actually turning out to be more more useful than what i thought  
and um i also have a good languages background linguistics   and some psychology  
so it's all working together  
the only field i'm not familiar with really is education which is required requires about four or five different fields   really  
so it's a  
uh_huh  
well  
oh so you are a disgruntled graduate student  
oh  
yeah  
[bah] [humbug]  
i i i think  
yeah  
there is  
i i i think uh law would be a fine field a fine profession fine field to go into  
um i know one time i was in a political science class  
and you know talking about fields people going into different fields i made an off off the [cuff] [remark] about lawyers   about their integrity being questionable  
and i mean oh that was like a can of worms  
no  
there was a woman  
she said my my best friends are lawyers and you know all this  
and it was just  
yeah  
i know  
or jewish  
it used to be jewish you know  
yeah  
i know  
it's  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
i have a i have a friend  
she's studying she's going into law  
another friend going into law  
and she's  
i i i'm really i'm really concerned about you know  
she's just going to be you know  
what's going to happen when she gets there  
you know all of her dreams will be [dispelled]  
yeah  
yeah  
it's i i think it's probably more embarrassing and very painful  
i see   i see that happening  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i went to a language school  
and and that was a it was a an i guess uh united states institution  
i was military at the time  
and i i think   probably the biggest  
huh  
i was in the air force  
yeah  
yeah  
for myself i mean i think that military experience was fine  
it was just i just wish that there was something else that that that i could have done you know with  
yeah  
what what was your job  
uh i was i was a [linguist]  
um  
in [tak]  
uh no  
i wasn't  
no  
no  
i didn't i didn't go flight crew  
matter of fact i didn't make it completely through that through that field  
i was in intelligence school and about three weeks short  
i didn't make it  
i sort of washed out  
yeah  
after about eighteen months of talking about the   year and a half training you know it's it's something you know  
i think that's why you know children really need to think about the field they're going to going into and i mean spend a lot of serious   reading before they i mean not just   thinking about  
they actually should do some reading  
and they should study it  
yeah  
i i i i think i think there's a lot to be said for kids working   after school  
i mean they they find out whether just how much of a people person they are  
oh and i tell you what  
i worked at mcdonald's as well  
and i i can tell you one thing  
there are just some people that i you know  
you just came to the point where i mean  
and oh i eventually worked in a lab in a as a lab technician  
and i worked front desk  
and i mean somebody could walk in the door  
and i knew exactly what they were going to do and say  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's good  
i was just wondering um getting back to the school thing so i i almost wish that there was something  
well first i think they've got to have a pretty good idea of what they want to what they want to do  
uh once they have that then they can start looking in all the various publications that give out all the information about schools and write to the schools themselves and start finding out about the different requirements for the programs and what kind of uh of job assistance and all that other kind of stuff they offer  
yeah  
a lot fields are  
most of your liberal arts degrees and stuff aren't really concerned with your first two years anyway  
it's it's your core education your general general education requirements  
um if you know if they want to get a liberal arts degree i don't i don't know what advice i'd give them  
go to the school you'd like to go to  
that's what i did  
i didn't care about the program or anything else  
i went where i wanted to go  
uh political science  
where are you at  
well yeah  
i guess everybody's in dallas that i talk to  
i'm in   north carolina  
yeah  
right  
sure  
oh yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it does um  
i didn't know what i wanted to do after i got my my degree  
um originally i had planned uh undergrad degree in political science and then a master's in public administration  
and i went ahead and pursued that  
i i got as far as the thesis and decided to hell with it  
i didn't want it  
um and from that point i went to law school  
and after a year and a half of that i decided i didn't want that either  
haven't figured out what i want to be when i grow up  
and so but i i i really did enjoy the law  
i mean that's that's where i wanted to be  
but i didn't want to go through the uh the hassle that the law schools put you through because i never did want to be a practicing attorney  
i just wanted a law degree  
and i've since discovered that i would be far better off being in the paralegal field   because that's the nuts and bolts of the law and that's what i like  
and you don't have to put up with all the b s that the lawyers have to  
so that's that's what i'm pursuing right now  
and i'm pretty happy with it so far  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's probably very useful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh good grief  
yeah  
i thought at one time i wanted to be a teacher  
but i i quickly [dispelled] that idea when i became a substitute teacher for a while just to get my feet wet  
i said uh i couldn't do this everyday  
no way  
maybe maybe being a tenured professor would be one thing but being a public school teacher is entirely another thing  
i am a i am i am just a disgruntled person all around  
i'm the uh i'm the uh original uh mister [scrooge] i guess  
yeah  
[bah] [humbug]  
yeah  
i just  
probably you probably got everybody on you because they were probably all going to law school  
well that [remark] in itself is a slam  
my best friends are lawyers  
you know like like uh my best friends are blacks  
jewish  
now blacks  
and i guess i i guess iraqi now is the  
law law was a lot of fun until you get to law school  
and it doesn't become fun anymore  
yeah  
you going  
oh yeah  
yeah  
if if if you've ever seen the program paper chase   it's very much like that except worse  
it is  
yeah  
very much so  
yeah  
it's it's a lot of that um  
it it was enjoyable for a while um  
but it's such a grind  
and you begin to wonder you know  
if if i'm not i mean  
you really have to be dead set on being a lawyer to do it  
if you have any doubts whatsoever you better not get into it  
i mean i wasted a year and a half of awfully hard  
and i aged ten years  
but i i i wouldn't trade the experience for anything in the world  
it never hurts to have some kind of a [grounding] in law  
what branch were you in  
what branch were you in  
i was too  
well i got i got tired of the service after a while i mean  
it  
i had a terrific job really enjoyed it  
uh command post  
i was just wondering were you in sac by any chance  
were you in sac  
sac  
oh okay  
i i thought maybe you might have had some experience with the uh r c one thirty fives  
oh  
well  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
and it   and if it's possible even get some experience at it or at least watch some people   do it  
uh_huh  
sure  
that's true  
i found that out when i was in high school  
i worked at mcdonald's  
yeah  
yeah  
i was the same way too  
i'm not a people person  
i i i hate um having to play such a nice guy   you know especially when it's all phony   especially when you got some uh jerk coming in  
i  
it's just not for me  
i'm uh i deal much better in research and books and stuff like that   which is why i'm going to enjoy the paralegal field a lot  
okay  
he did really decide to go  
uh_huh  
sure  
i'm familiar with it  
and he well he must know is he interested in law or medicine  
he must have a definite profession in mind  
oh okay  
medium size  
aren't they  
is he excited  
wow  
i can  
i  
uh_huh  
while they're east coast i mean i don't know anything about their football  
but there you go  
yeah  
that's  
where where you at  
oh okay  
i'm in uh suburban dallas  
no  
i don't  
i have a husband  
we don't have any kids yet  
about all i can say is i guess about picking schools um i guess uh if you don't know what you're going to do liberal arts program is a good idea  
this is true  
right  
the humanities the history yeah  
right  
right  
no  
no  
no  
yeah  
but they you know if they learn the job and they can go into graduate school   usually a company it will if it's worth it's weight will subsidize  
and  
uh_huh  
this this is true  
yes  
and if you want to go away  
right  
right  
good  
okay  
so he wouldn't have gone to something like where we're at they'd in austin texas university of texas  
right  
texas  
yeah  
okay  
well that's i think the other thing is too um i know i went to a uh city high school in chicago  
and a lot of the kids weren't as fortunate as say my brother and i were  
and economics was the choice  
um sounds like your son has academically the standing to get into that type of school  
uh_huh  
yeah  
university of penn  
i'm originally from pennsylvania  
university of pennsylvania  
yeah  
that's strong  
i mean that's   you know  
and it's it's well it's a little bit i don't want to use the word wilder that's not the word i want um more diverse  
at williams or pennsylvania  
at williams  
at pennsylvania  
well how large is williams  
right  
well that's not bad  
which is a lot  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's the thing to do  
i mean i not having any children my husband was an ohio state person  
and uh that has something like either the first or second largest student population like fifty thousand  
combined  
yeah  
that is too much  
and i mean i um i can only say it's strange your son picked those kinds of college because i spent a year at [bennington] in vermont  
um and that was this was twenty years ago  
showing my age  
yes  
oh my god  
where are you from  
well let's not talk about that  
it's um in that area  
i mean i just can't say enough about it  
well you know um my husband's an engineer and a strong a strong liberal arts background with uh a graduate degree in a technical field   will get him much further than say like a a strong um business administration degree than with another m b a   on top of it  
uh_huh  
and they usually   yeah  
but they usually don't  
right  
but they  
no  
but who does  
i mean i think   i think all i think the majority of people just don't know  
no  
he looked at criteria such as location size of school   uh  
that's still pretty far though  
i mean a lot of kids just don't even want to go  
oh that's not too bad  
yeah  
he will enjoy williams i think and is a good academic  
uh_huh  
that could very well be  
and   so he's developing his his uh internal instincts right now  
that's good because   i mean i'm sure what he said was true that uh you  
well actually that's one of the reasons i went to  
kenyon he he made a good choice  
i went  
i well i was supposed to  
but i spent a year in vermont my freshman year  
it was just too far away  
it was too different   uh the level of income of lot of the students  
and their attitudes was just um beyond my   um in terms of drugs et cetera which i thought was shocking  
right  
yeah  
you're right  
but then i went  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and you're going to get a little bit more input than   discipline  
yeah  
well i don't know how to put this either in this way  
and then it doesn't sound like your sons would need this  
but i just think the other thing is with the way a lot of the youth is today i think the [refinement] that they get   i don't mean specifically or culture but just what you're saying just a solid background   because i just don't think at that age i just don't think that young people know what they want to do   you know  
and um  
that's right  
right  
yeah  
this is very very  
oh  
they have video lectures  
yeah  
video lectures  
this is true  
and i mean that is very ironic too that your son just made the  
did he just make the decision today  
how funny  
that's funny  
it was easy for him to rule out  
he knew what he didn't want  
that's exactly  
yeah  
now is your other  
i mean we're talking about what you think  
but obviously you're experiencing it uh  
did your other son um  
a clam  
oh wonderful  
uh_huh  
the smaller and the  
and they'll do fine in their studies  
and i'm sure they'll go on to graduate school  
and   and now he's a he's a senior  
or is this early admissions  
so he's   so he's yeah  
well sounds like you have two talented sons  
i think and a lot of people talk about  
and it's not the economics i solely [zeroed] in on  
but i think a lot of people think a lot of people think about the tuition level and what exactly are you getting in return  
and i think that a lot of people shy away from the smaller colleges because of that  
and i think it's rather sad  
you are wonderful parents  
no  
and i agree  
i mean my husband and i  
in fact i'm taking my l s a t um  
i'm thirty something   and taking my l s a t on june tenth  
the point being and your sons will learn this from you i'm sure that uh no matter what age you are you can learn  
and it sounds like they're going to you know they're  
um to williams college in massachusetts   and that he was trying to decide between university of pennsylvania and williams  
and it was a very difficult choice  
and uh   no  
but that's one of the reasons why he chose williams   that it has solid liberal arts   about two thousand  
very excited  
yes uh   i have another son who's at their chief rival amherst college  
well they're they're they're really very strong academic rather than you know big sports  
we're outside of uh washington in maryland  
how about you  
uh_huh  
do you have children in  
okay um  
well i i  
one of the the [advices] we've given our children is that you can always learn a job  
uh but what you can't learn uh on a job is a good solid well rounded education  
that's right you know  
the [renaissance] man  
and uh and if you get that you can  
and if you do well you can you can learn a job  
that's exactly right  
that's right  
so the advice we gave to them   was number one visit the colleges   that you're thinking about   describe first of all the size school that you might be interested in  
do you want to go away  
how far from home do you want to be  
what do you want in a college  
now my son is a national level competitive swimmer  
so he wanted to swim in school  
but he did not want to be in a swim factory  
that's right  
that's the university of texas at austin or   stanford or something like that   so he didn't even consider those  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
he is very very strong academically  
yeah  
so we've just  
but you know he had to look to see   what kind of environment he liked  
and yet he he did wind up having to make a choice  
he did apply to a large you know large group  
it's got about nine thousand undergraduate  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
and it but it does have the under you know  
that's total undergraduate with five hundred graduate school so that the uh the college of arts and sciences is you know i guess about four thousand  
at pennsylvania  
williams is an undergraduate school only  
um and it's a total of two thousand  
yeah  
so he knew the feeling because my other son is at amherst which is   fifteen hundred  
and he had visited his brother at amherst and knew   that he liked the environment  
but he did go on college visits  
and he liked  
yes  
yes  
it's large  
and they both boys had decided no that they did not want that  
oh it's  
so you  
uh_huh  
and did you ever eat at the blue bin diner  
no  
but we've been there when whose gone up there  
oh it's it  
we went  
and he was you know impressed by the clean air  
and he he met the students at both schools  
and he liked them  
uh_huh  
that's it  
the thing is if if a person really knows very early on   that they want to go   in a technical field than you're not then it's probably good to go to you know to apply to a school   with a good technical program  
but uh for if you're going into  
if you know engineering is the thing if then you've got to at least take engineering  
that's right  
uh_huh  
no  
he didn't apply to any school further  
the furthest away was [bowdoin] in maine which is about twelve hours  
yeah  
that was the furthest and then kenyon in ohio which was about six and a half hours  
and williams is about seven  
yeah  
so well i mean he so it wasn't  
he you know  
then the university of pennsylvania is like two hours from here by train  
and then [bucknell] in mid state pennsylvania  
yeah  
and he will  
and if it came down i mean as he he came  
he's been talking to them  
and   and he came down  
and one of the things that he said is he went to pennsylvania this weekend  
and he had an absolutely marvelous time  
he had a great time  
but then he said you know it was such a good time that i almost got the feeling that their emphasis is on having fun  
and he said it almost  
i think it [backfired]  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
of course that period too was probably difficult  
but i did uh  
my advice to him   and my was that uh he had to really decide what he wanted out of college  
he had to look at himself  
uh in a larger school he had to realize that if he was going to screw around it he could probably slip  
and it wouldn't be caught up until it was too late where in a smaller school   where especially in a kenyon or a williams where you see the professors around town all the time you skip class in the morning and they see you  
that's  
yeah  
yeah  
and a swim coach is going to be right on top of you uh so that  
and he will know the professors in a small  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
and um and it's just the personal contact where if you need help  
he had  
i told him to look to yourself  
are you the kind of person that will go into a large college and if the professor says i've got office hours but you really don't feel that you know him because you're in a class of a hundred   that you're really going to look him up  
but if it's a class of fifteen   and you need help you know that it's much easier to do it and especially in the large schools they have lectures  
and even though they may break it up into smaller groups penn is known for having   graduate assistance teaching  
they have graduate assistants to teach the smaller groups  
he made the decision uh i'd say about uh an hour and a half ago  
yeah  
i mean that's so funny i mean  
and and in fact he had just an hour before that two uh recent graduates from kenyon spent close to two hours talking with him  
and uh i mean and he they were really nice  
and but he said is that they didn't tell him anything that he didn't know  
but they helped [confirm] his decision that a smaller school was better  
yeah  
yeah  
my other son is just as happy as a bed bug  
he  
the moment he knew he he decided early on that amherst was the school  
he's a classical [guitarist]  
and he decided he also got into the graduate school of music as an undergraduate   for classical guitar  
but he decided he was going to go to the um   the smaller now and then graduate school later  
well he's really my older boy's real happy  
and he's [minoring] in english  
and he had thought about economics  
and he took a couple of courses in economics and decided that wasn't  
he's um he's going to be a junior  
he'll be he's finishing his sophomore year   so he's double majoring  
well you know see the advice we give is to not limit yourself especially this you know go to a school where you're not forced to make too many [irrevocable] decisions your first year or two  
yeah  
well one of the things we said is that they should pick the college  
this was our advice too [irrespective] of the cost that somehow we would manage  
well we place a real high priority on education in our family  
oh good  
that's wonderful  
oh that's great  
that's right  
that's exactly  
okay  
i guess i'll start um  
one uh big thing that the advise that i would give to a parent to give to his or her child is to let their let their child experience college in a kind of general sense  
i like large colleges because i went to university of texas at austin  
they have fifty thousand students there  
and i feel like that now if i went if i had gone to a small college that only had a couple of thousand that i wouldn't have have gotten as much exposure to different people and different uh i don't know different languages different cultures and things like that just by being around those fifty thousand students  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i could see i could see that point i could see how it would be  
i'm sure your classes were a lot smaller um because like we would have biology classes that did main courses that everyone has to take i mean hundreds of students in this class  
so   actually yes you were a number  
but um i i just  
i don't know  
i'm thinking in a sense of uh just being exposed to more  
it just seems like in a larger college you i don't know your exposed to so many more people from all over the world  
and i'm sure a lot of people come to you know small colleges also but just that they're more of of the different cultures there  
not that it's not that it's better  
but i'm just saying that i think that big  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think uh a lot of a lot of students now would probably be afraid of a smaller college  
a lot of the students that i talked to even here in waco they go to baylor um they  
or they're considering going to baylor  
they're also considering going to u t austin  
but one of the big no [nos] is because of the fifty thousand students  
and i have to tell them that just like just like i live in waco  
it's a large city  
i can still function in my own kind of area in my own group  
i have a job  
i have my friends  
and i'm really not as as concerned about the entire city so when you go to a big a big university you're not as concerned about the entire university   but your group of friends your classes your interests your clubs and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
on paper  
uh_huh  
exactly  
that's that's one important thing that i think about school  
i'm i'm not a kind a person that  
i didn't  
i i was kind of a b student i guess you'd say  
and i didn't really  
i was  
i [strived] to be an a student  
but it wasn't like a real priority  
to my my priority was just being as [worldly] as i could possibly be getting into as many organizations as i possibly could  
and and one other point i was going to make was that i can i can see that probably if i had gone to a smaller school i would probably have more friends   because you like you said you know you know everybody knows everybody  
and so you probably come out of it knowing and by friends i mean like contacts for when you get out of school um you know  
you just you may walk into a company and see someone you went to school with   more so at a small college then a large college  
you may have gone to school with them  
but you wouldn't you wouldn't know them  
uh i guess let me think of another important thing to look at when you look into college um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
right  
wow  
that's great  
right  
right  
that's great  
that's great  
yeah  
that's what i that's basically what i and when i first  
i've been out of college only two years now so it's still pretty fresh on my memory   um  
but now that i'm out  
when i went into school my parents told well  
my  
okay let me let me go back to my my sister now is in college   and my father was really interested in getting her in a school that would look good on her on her uh diploma et cetera   and so forth  
and and i kept pushing her towards just kind of u t or a larger school  
and it was just a big conflict between us because my father wanted the academics  
and i wanted her to get the life experience   out of it  
and so it was you know  
she went the academic way because she's a straight a student which is  
yes  
yeah  
so she you know  
that's probably you know what she what she wants anyway  
but that was the big deal  
and  
right  
right  
and that that's another point is that the a parent should tell their child to be or or to give their child the leeway to choose their school   not so much choose the school for them but you know kind of guide them along but let them more or less choose what they need and what they're going to do  
uh_huh  
right  
huh   right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well that was pretty [courageous]  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i'm i'm dealing with the loans right now  
so so   oh yes  
very  
every every month  
that memory just [seeps] back in my [mailbox]  
oh well i guess i'll get over it  
oh yeah  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
because when you when you do want when you do finally graduate that that's what you need the most  
i'm finding out now that what i'm needing the most now is not smarts not what i can do on paper it's stamina courage uh  
words it  
yes  
i'm needing you know my i'm needing to rely on myself  
and i think i learned a lot of that in school too  
that's interesting  
i went to a smaller school   of probably three thousand thirty five hundred  
and i i thought that was the best experience in that we had more one on one since we seemed to know everyone on campus  
and we had a broad spectrum of languages and cultures and backgrounds   and so forth  
so i thought it was wonderful to be a bigger fish and not so much a number  
um one of fifty thousand i was one of three thousand   and and you know   different perspectives  
i uh  
but it sounds like we were both kind of looking at the same sort of sort of thing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's one thing to definitely consider  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's probably keyed to me is not so much the size the school   but what what is the particular needs of the students  
and whereas some would immediately feel very comfortable in this um larger university setting   some of the students um when i was when i was teaching school would not have been comfortable with that  
they needed uh at least at first   they needed a smaller setting that that was more like family where they could get one on one   from from teachers professors and so forth and then after a year or two move on to a little bit bigger pond where where when they had a little more self confidence built up oh yes i can do this oh i've done this before it's just in a bigger setting  
and so maybe to me the key would be what is a the the students needs  
and what what school or schools can best meet those those needs besides education you can expect all of them with uh [accreditation] to give the education  
but it's these other things that you and i are are [keying] off on   that that are really more of an education that  
but they're the things that don't show up in  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess i guess now i've been out for  
i i'm older than you  
i've been out for twenty one years  
and i was looking at an annual last night  
something had it sparked a question  
and i went to a small private school  
um and it was church related  
and i got to looking at my class of sixty nine  
and i realized that even though that school's two hundred miles from here  
and i've lived in other states and done other things for the past twenty years where i go to church now there are five other people that went to school at the same time in the same class as i  
and it's it's neat to know that we have that contact that goes back that some of the same memories if not the same education in  
you know we weren't all out to be teachers or or whatever  
so we didn't have the same classes  
but we had a common thread   something that still ties us together   twenty odd years later  
and it's it's it's kind of neat just knowing that those kinds of things those are what i carry beyond that piece of paper that allows me to be an exempt at t i  
i have something more important to me than that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i was going to ask who won  
in in that case uh regardless of what you or your father pushed for it sounds like she was going for what she needed   and finding a school that that met her specific requirements   and and made the best fit for her  
yeah  
i think it helps  
a now my grandfather was going to pay if i went to uh what's now u t arlington   because it was there in my hometown  
i could live at home  
but i chose to go to another school  
and even though he was pleased that it was a church related school he was not willing to pay any at all even the same amount of money  
and i think i value my my education more because i had to work for it  
and because i knew all along that's what i wanted   even though i had to buck the family in order to to do what i needed to do  
so  
um i guess i guess it was it was my mother's support that got me through it   that and ten years of of uh loans   after i got out  
sounds familiar huh  
your  
it's very fresh in your memory  
i  
yeah  
well sorry about that tanya  
i'm sure it was worth it though  
if if nothing else because i work in training at t i now  
if nothing else just those experiences beyond and and including your educational classes that help give you the self esteem to do and achieve   whatever you set your mind on  
and the you you made the right choice in going to a school that met all of your needs to make to give you the the potential to do whatever you wanted  
young lady   you have gotten your education then  
that that's right  
yeah  
okay  
um do you have any advice for college  
i'm i'm i'm full of advice  
i'm still a graduate student  
so  
um  
yeah  
um  
oh that's interesting  
i went to a a liberal arts school actually at first  
and you weren't really even um   they didn't expect you to choose any sort of major or anything at all until you were in your second year  
and then you you know you had i think you had to pick it by by by the end of the second you had to pick some sort of major  
but until then they didn't sort of force you  
they they sort of forced you to run around taking classes in everything until then certain requirements  
so that so that you had to sort of get a general feel for everything  
so it wasn't that specialized  
so that  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i was just on a committee recently actually sponsored by uh the american association for the advancement of science trying to sort of you know where where they were just trying to figure out how to fit science and liberal arts together you know because there are people who are getting just wonderful science educations and not getting enough liberal arts  
and then the other way around as well  
people are getting pure technical science educations and not getting very good liberal arts sorts of issues  
so  
uh_huh  
well that must be helpful  
that could be very helpful  
yeah  
well i figure that that that's probably the thing i would most tell any parent you know to tell their kids i think probably  
make sure the kid goes to a school where they get sort of a general education  
and save [specialization] i guess for graduate school unless they're sure they want early on they want to do something like engineering or something  
or they can  
um  
yeah  
but but that's a good idea  
well where i am right now  
actually i'm at the university of rochester  
and that's a pretty good engineering school i think  
i think we do some   they have pretty good engineering here  
they also have a fairly large liberal arts college as well a sort of a separate you know arts and sciences college  
um and i believe the engineers are sort of required to take classes in in everything  
and i know people i do uh i do work in language processing  
and and and at least one person who's in my field started off as an engineer started off as an an electrical engineer student and then switched over at some point into language processing because he found that he enjoyed it more  
so they do force them  
people are forced to sort of take all different kinds of classes here which i think is wonderful  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
um uh_huh  
that would   be very good actually  
right  
you you don't need any philosophy at all in school  
uh_huh  
or  
yeah  
or or or or some other thought provoking area you know  
very true  
we had uh when i went to undergraduate we had uh  
went to [brandeis]  
don't know if you know of it or not uh  
we had uh uh a requirement freshman year of just humanities  
then you were given a choice of um you know  
there were ten or twelve or whatever or fifteen different courses that you could take  
but they all centered they all came out of philosophy english and literature departments  
and they were they were they were a set of assigned [readings] everybody had to read you know for  
so the first year humanities courses everyone had to read the [iliad] an and so forth  
and what they did do was they all approached it from from very different  
so that you could have one class in the philosophy of something that the philosophy of greek mythology or something that actually approached this or um one literature you know or a a literature course or just all sorts of different perspectives on it  
and people got to pick and choose  
but but by the end everyone had a good sample of of of sort of how to think about these things [nonscientifically] you know  
and uh and that sort of forced them  
but i believe that that that you one of the one of the best things to do at least for me in school was was i was sort of forced to take lots of different kinds of courses  
um i was forced to take i think you know some sort of art history course  
and we all [grumbled] about it at first  
but then afterward we all wound up taking extra art history classes because it just seemed like something something we didn't totally know nothing about but just enjoyed very much doing   and something i would never would have done if if i wasn't forced to take it  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
and that and that really is something that that i notice  
like i talk to a lot of my friends at school that are more specialized  
and they don't have that  
they just you know they went in and took their courses that they were expected to take  
and that was all  
they never had some of the more fun classes i guess  
i feel a little more [worldly] now  
yes  
i'm i'm i'm hoping i'm hoping  
yes  
i i graduated um college in eighty seven  
and i just went straight through  
um i'm finishing up next year  
so yeah  
i didn't take any break or anything yet  
i've been trying actually in graduate school i've been trying to do the same thing take courses completely outside my area  
and i'm finding in graduate school it's a lot harder because uh i just don't have the time any more to sort of sit in a course that i'm not getting graded for  
whereas before i would just sign up for credit for it now i can't sign up for an art history course for credit necessarily  
so i have to try and go myself  
and i went for like two or three weeks and realized not enough time for the work unfortunately  
i'm pursuing a doctorate in psychology  
so i'm just wind up spending a lot of time doing that instead  
uh what else  
i i think i  
oh  
uh_huh  
um you had real world experience in the middle there  
and that helped you think  
or that was  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i'm getting some of that  
um i have i have sort of some   work experience  
my wife is not an academic at all  
my wife is sort of in the real world  
and so i sort of [hinge] halfway out in the real world  
and i getting you know real world  
especially she works in uh uh she works in the she works for a temporary agency  
and i never would have had  
she's the office supervisor  
i never would have had any i've i've learned much just sort of by watching her and her and her business as well  
so yeah  
so i i can i can see where that might be a  
yeah  
that's my  
oh yeah  
yeah  
agreed  
agreed  
well i'll i'll take that i'll take that and think that through a little bit uh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well having been there not too long ago and my wife having only recently completed a doctorate   i'm fairly full of it of it myself  
uh the main point that i have about choosing where you want to go to school is that you have to early on define what it is you want to do   or at least what area you want to be in  
uh i had the [unpleasant] experience of going through several schools that were very specialized  
i went through a number of them   uh undergraduate schools before i found a a good school that was more general uh to give me time to make up my mind  
that's wonderful  
i'm a great [proponent] of liberal arts education   for anybody  
uh being an engineer now i believe in it even more strongly than i did before  
well thus far it's working to my advantage  
uh the great gap historically has with engineers has been while they may have all this technical information they have no way of [imparting] it to except to another engineer  
and i have the ability to listen to them and then translate that into something that [nonengineers] can understand  
well it's   a lot of fun at the moment  
even at that i have a son that who's only nine at the moment  
but i see him very rapidly becoming the engineering personality  
and uh if he decides to pursue that i'm going to insist that he spend two years at a liberal arts college before i'll even let him go to an engineering college  
and yes  
that'll add one year to his education experience  
yes  
it is  
oh i agree  
uh i have the experience uh  
the last school that i went to was mississippi state university   which is historically an engineering and agricultural school  
uh the typical land grant university  
every state's got one  
anyway while it has both engineering and liberal arts the engineering students tend to cluster together  
you know they're in classes together even when they're outside of the engineering department  
and they don't learn the communications  
they don't learn the thought processes of other fields of of endeavor  
it's you know it that's kind of like if i were king for a day and got to and got to make one rule   my rule would be no one could get out of high school without an entire year of philosophy  
and it's   that's not even true in our colleges  
right  
yes i   i remember that experience  
that and uh extra music classes  
well that will continue to grow even as you go beyond graduate school  
have have you gone straight through  
that's true  
are you pursuing a master's or a doctorate  
well let me let me encourage you to stop and experience life along the way  
i i first enrolled in college in nineteen sixty six  
uh six years and a and a war later uh i got a degree an undergraduate degree  
and then fifteen years after that i got the first of a set of master's degrees  
and four years after that i got another master's degree  
oh yes  
it it certainly makes acceptance of different ideas a lot easier  
well [vicarious] learning is a wonderful thing  
it certainly means that we don't have to experience everything  
but experience is a wonderful   teacher also  
my wife as i may have mentioned just finished a doctorate a couple of years ago  
and she pursued her education along the lines that i did   with lots of break in between  
and she feels reasonably comfortable teaching now  
she has an awful lot of experience to draw on  
no longer  
uh yes  
yes  
i have a daughter  
yeah  
she's only about uh uh a little less than two years old  
no  
yeah  
uh no uh um  
no particular school  
uh i think that's really a decision that  
they  
well help them make in terms of you know what they are they are   wanting to do  
you know that that's a big influence i think and   you know what not only what you can afford but what what's going to be best for them   in terms of what their career goals are  
so uh you know you need to go to a school that handles whatever it is you want to do  
uh university of mississippi  
uh well it was well it was within the state  
but it it was not necessarily local it was  
what's the [criterion] for choosing to go there  
uh well at the time i was uh thinking of going pre med  
and in the state uh they had the best pre med uh curriculum for the uh state institutions  
it was choice between there and uh a private college   that uh was a bit more expensive  
at the time we really could not afford it  
so   i ended up going there although it was quite a drive away for me  
it  
uh i enjoyed it  
no  
no  
no  
it was a six hour drive  
i was uh it was like another world  
basically it was a no it was a  
did not get home that often you know  
and at that age   it's uh it's kind of kind of difficult sometimes  
especially if you have not been away a lot   that extended  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh that's true  
yeah  
that that's like you know when i went on to get my my masters   i uh basically was you know it was where i was at the time  
you know i was not going to try to pick and go somewhere else   because i was pretty much settled  
and i was trying to work  
but uh so when you are first going to school that you kind of have the luxury of being able to   have some [latitude] in choosing the place to go  
um uh the computer science center  
uh north building  
uh about three years  
uh yeah  
i have uh uh  
no  
actually i mean i came straight from school to here  
so cause this was the first first real job after getting my degree  
after my masters  
my undergraduate degree was not in not in what my masters was  
so i made a career change   basically  
yeah  
one day i would like to uh you know the uh  
i i like the school where i went  
i mean and i would not hesitate at all to to encourage her to go there   there if she wanted to  
or the school where i got my masters at which which was a different school  
and uh i liked it almost as well  
uh but uh you know that i'm not going to hold them to that   just because i went there  
i you know think that's  
if they want to that's fine but   otherwise not although i uh would get quite a break on on tuition  
yeah  
because they uh allow for uh uh tuition uh break for out of state students   who children of [alumnae]  
well certain schools do it  
this school does  
so uh   it's it  
i i was involved in some uh-oh [alumnae] recruiting uh here in town uh recently uh well last year  
uh and it was kind of fun because you are trying to to trying to get people interested in your school you know  
and they were  
this was a college night at a at a high school in richardson  
and it was  
and there were a bunch of kids you know and a bunch of schools  
there were a hundred schools probably there   all competing for the same kids  
it's kind of interesting to to to talk up you know your   school  
and i was surprised by the number of kids that came came by and had heard of you know our school   and and were interested in it  
uh you know we uh  
situations like that you don't realize you know until you start thinking about it the kinds of advantages you school may have over others  
and so i i was real real pleased with that  
that worked out so well  
i think so  
i don't know offhand  
but uh it seemed like there were quite a few   kids that were definitely interested in going there  
so there   there was one mother who uh came by right even before we started who who obviously was uh very interested in getting her her daughter in or or having gotten her daughter in or something  
and she was wanting some more information  
but she was her her daughter was uh a a a [majorette] or something   you know a baton twirler or something  
and she was she was letting us know she how how good her daughter was  
she had cards printed up actually   describing you know business cards describing her daughter's uh you know she had won several different twirling awards and all this  
and she was had these business cards she was passing out  
and it was quite a production  
i think some parents go a little bit overboard  
yes  
do you have children  
do you  
how old is she  
uh i guess you have not reached the stage where you need to uh promote a college or anything huh  
i've got one that's seven and one that's three  
so we uh we started saving  
but that's all  
so do you is there are you planning to like encourage your children to go to a particular school  
that you are going to let them make  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
where did you go to school  
oh  
was that local or uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i i mean so what's  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so you did you commute everyday then  
or  
oh okay  
oh okay  
when you said it was quite a quite a way away i did not know it that meant you had to drive like an hour  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so did you go there like straight out of high school  
yeah  
uh see i did not get my degree until later on  
so i just finished mine a couple of years ago  
and uh you know i guess you know when you have to do it that way it makes makes your choices a lot easier  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
which group do you work in in t i  
oh uh where is that at  
i see  
how long do you work for t i  
did you work somewhere else  
like sounds like you got your masters before here  
or  
i see  
uh_huh  
after your masters or after your  
i see  
i see  
uh_huh  
i see  
well let's see  
i have not you know  
there's a lot of pluses and [minuses] for different schools you know just like you said  
uh depending on what they want to [specialize] in and what you can afford different things like that  
so i i have not   really made up my mind you know whether to encourage them to go different places  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
um because you went there  
um  
i didn't know that  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
your own school  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so did you drum up any interest then  
or   well that's good  
uh_huh  
and that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it sounds like it  
well you know i think richardson is probably you know one of the places that would definitely  
well steve did you go to college  
oh that's good  
so you probably could give some great advice  
uh_huh  
well what's your what's your interest  
your uh  
uh_huh  
that that's similar to what  
i'm in a p h d program right now  
and uh my area of expertise it's information systems which is a little bit less technical i think than uh than computer science  
but my area of expertise is uh uh human computer interaction  
and i think that's one reason why i'm part of this study uh because it's of i'm working with voice systems  
yeah  
so so good luck  
i guess we should talk about giving advice though  
what what type of advice do you think you'd give to a a parent  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's more important probably than even the career vocation because most people change  
i i know very few people that uh started in one field and stayed with it  
you know they  
i think that's what you just said you know having to do more with the size of the school the environment of the school uh  
i think that's much more important  
i i think i'd i'd advise a parent to send a kid to a school though that has a number of different types of programs you know  
that uh some of the smaller schools might be very limited in what they can offer  
but some of the uh the small some of the larger small schools you know i guess around three or four thousand students   have a can offer a broader range of curriculums and things  
so if the kid does change they don't have to transfer  
or they don't have to uh uh  
i don't know they don't have to give up years of you know of credit transfer and things  
yeah  
i normally  
and and parents hate to hear this you know  
because i i actually teach college  
i hate to uh i hate to talk to the parents  
because um one of the reasons is because you know the kid doesn't know exactly what they want  
and i always say make sure you major   in something that you like even if it's not going to be your career vocation   because you'll get better grades  
i i think most employers would probably rather hire you know a a three six in um in history uh to be a salesman than someone with a two oh in business administration  
does that make sense  
yeah  
i always you know tell them that you should major in something you you're going to get good grades in   because that that's always i think more important you know overall  
i don't know  
yeah  
oh you you're at the office now  
at work  
yeah  
i would i would   it would  
i i tell you  
i live in maryland  
and the public schools here are   pretty good  
i teach at a public school actually  
and i know that the s a t scores for our [admitting] freshmen are higher than a lot of the public a lot of the private schools  
and um i actually i would full time at a at a public school  
and then right now i'm teaching part time at a private school at a catholic institution  
and um and i really think i think i'm getting a better [caliber] of student at the private school because i think their parents pay more  
and i think the kids are a little bit more challenged because their parents are probably college educated  
where at the public school i don't think as many parents are public are are college educated  
and i don't i think because it costs less the kid doesn't take it quite as serious you know  
they're not  
it it's the minimal cost  
but i think you can get a good education at public or private  
but i think you can also get a bad education at public or private you know  
i  
you have to really you have to look around at the school  
i i think the bad part is that most parents or kids don't know what to look for  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
does it have a big ten football team  
or  
yeah  
i mean uh yeah  
is it a [pac] ten school you know  
but i think  
yeah  
see i'm i'm at the university of maryland so in this this region um though i go to a smaller branch of the university of maryland my diploma will still say university of maryland  
um you know it doesn't doesn't [differentiate] on my diploma though i would put it on my resume what program i went to  
but i i think you know i'm actually at a smaller program  
i'm not at the the big college park campus you know  
that's the big one with the football team  
so i i think um i think you're right that there's a lot of there's difficult decisions there based on name recognition  
um you know when i first was applying for graduate schools i applied to some big programs you know in this area like [stevens] institute of technology which is recognized in the northeast as as you know one step below m i t in a sense   you know  
so it's got big name recognition in this area a big science school no football team but a big science school  
and technical people know that  
but i  
yeah  
i think you're right  
you really have to think about that for the job  
i went to a very small state college when i got my bachelor's  
and when i  
now i was in education at first when i was looking for jobs  
i was going to be a teacher  
i was just a high school teacher  
so most people recognized that institution because it was a teaching school sort of  
you know but then when i went um for graduate work you know or for a new job people said to me you know [shippensburg] state where is that you know  
and you know when i went into higher education even at other universities they weren't aware of it you know  
so i think yeah  
that's important  
um i think it depends on if you want to be a if you want a regional job or a national job  
you need that first   job or so out of school too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
depending on your technical areas  
yeah  
i could see that  
but you know at some of the large schools i know that at at at university of maryland where i am you know in a p h d program i i haven't even met uh someone outside of my area of information systems except for  
yeah  
in fact i'm still going  
uh well i don't know about that  
but i in fact i'm in the process of trying to choose a p h d school  
uh well computer science and cognitive science  
so  
oh i see  
oh yeah  
yeah  
to a parent  
well you know the thing is when you're a kid   and the kid at that age especially if they're going into undergraduate it seems like they think they know what they want  
an and i mean choosing from my experience you know i thought you know my i know what i want a lot more than my parents know what i want  
but uh i don't know  
at the same time you have to decide what is important about the school  
you know the size of it or  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's disruptive  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well yeah  
i see what you're saying  
yeah  
uh give me five minutes  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm just getting ready to go to lunch  
uh yeah  
that's like what we were saying though  
would you uh advise a private school or a public school  
you know what's the trade off there  
what  
oh i see  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think uh i would agree with that  
in fact the thing that i'm going through the same thing where in graduate school   i was trying to choose  
you know a particular institution might be better   for my area  
yet like say you know the university of small town in arkansas or something   might have some top specialists in my area  
yet if i go to u of i or c m u or you know some you know any big name school my quality of education might not be that much better  
but it's the same thing  
there's you know what will the name recognition   get me   kind of thing  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's usually the basic criteria  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i guess another thing that concerns me is uh so many people it seems like everybody today is still in that job market  
and uh um where was i at  
oh in going to school you get taught the things you learn in school  
but there is also a whole other [dimension] i mean the growing up while you're going to school part  
and uh actually in the midwest especially a lot of the schools have like university of missouri will have a main campus like columbia which is big multi disciplinary  
and they'll have a satellite campus in a usually in a smaller town that specializes in the technical field  
so you've really uh i guess sacrificed   some social   exposure to different groups and everything  
yeah  
advice for people taking for parents uh help their kids through college  
no  
i just graduated from college  
yes  
i went to clarion  
uh_huh  
um i would want them to make that decision  
and i would you know  
uh i pretty much made my decision on my own and my older brother likewise  
and uh you know we we were both pretty much happy with what we did  
so i think i would not push them towards any one place  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
i think one of the first things kids ought to look for is first of all they have to decide what they want to major in   and then you know find a school that's good for that  
well i picked it for a couple of reasons it was only about an hour and ten minutes away from home   so it was far enough away that i was away   but yet close enough if i ever wanted to go home i could  
uh   pardon me  
yeah  
i lived up at school  
yeah  
uh another reason was uh i paid for my entire education   so i had to look for something that i could afford economically  
you know and uh clarion was oh it was roughly around six thousand a year  
yeah  
that was for everything  
and now i did not go out a lot  
and i did not order out a lot  
and i you know i did not spend money on myself  
but uh then again i was there for school  
so  
uh and then another reason was i was not sure you know  
i always wanted to go to school for nursing and then at the last minute i changed my mind  
and i knew that clarion was known you know for two things  
actually for their  
they are known as a teacher's school   and also for their business  
so that's what i ended up going for is for business  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
not yet  
i am moving shortly  
so i am not looking around here  
uh maryland  
uh_huh  
my fiancee is down there  
yeah  
he works for the government  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
exactly  
yeah  
it does have a lot of bearing on it whether you are paying for yourself   or whether your parents are you know  
uh yeah  
because i was paying for it myself i kind of slacked off  
because i felt it was mine and i could do with it what i wanted  
i think if my parents would have paid for it they would have been on me you know  
uh they pretty much got to the point  
well well you know you are at that age  
and you are going to have to decide what you want to do  
if you goof   up it's your fault  
it's not ours you know  
and then lets me go  
and i mean i did not do poorly  
i finished with a two five  
that's not that wonderful either  
but uh you know i i mean i worked  
i did not you know   goof around  
i worked  
it was just harder you know  
i do not know  
i was used to being you know on top  
and when i started there it was like you are mediocre  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
that's really good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see well i screwed myself up also  
there was a point in time that i decided that i did not want to in school  
and my parents never pushed me until my dad just said what are you going to do  
and i said well i am going to go because i have not whipping butter the rest of my life you know  
so i went and i just took business  
well being as i was paying for it myself you know i just kept  
you do not get into your major until like your second or third year  
and i am going into my third year  
and i decided well i do not want to do accounting anymore  
right  
and i thought oh my god i am paying for this myself  
i am not switching completely because   i will put myself a year behind  
so i switched to finance  
and i liked it better  
and i pulled myself from a two oh to a two five you know   in my last year my senior year  
but i would have really liked to go on uh secondary ed with math education  
but it was just the fact i was paying for it myself  
i was not going   to put myself behind another year  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
i think if uh i would have went with the math i think i would have done a lot better because i was more interested  
and that's what i i knew that's what i wanted  
but uh i think a lot of kids that hold off a year or two  
oh my gosh  
i would like to see the results on a study done  
i think they would do a lot better because they are more focused  
they know exactly what they want to do  
so uh let's see what was the topic  
i forgot  
we are supposed to talk  
yeah  
do you have any children  
oh did you  
where did you go  
clarion  
huh uh would you i mean if you had children would you want them to go to a certain place  
or  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know  
i kind of feel the same way  
i i just finished college a couple years ago  
and i uh you know  
it was while i had my family and everything and it was a lot harder  
but uh you know i went to a college that was fairly local  
and i feel like my education you know  
you get out of it what you put into it i think  
but you know i know  
it's  
some people are real adamant about you know going to a certain school or whatever  
i do not know  
i guess it a lot of it would depend on maybe what your major was or something  
i do not know  
but  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is that why you picked the school you did  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so you lived there at school then  
you lived there at school  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
and that was for tuition  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
for business  
so uh are you working somewhere then  
or  
oh i see  
where are you going to move to  
oh are you  
do you have friends there  
or  
oh i see  
so does he work for a company down there  
oh i see  
oh the big company  
so yeah  
i i have been working for t i for about twelve years i guess  
so  
but i am not originally i am originally from illinois but you know i have gone to college i guess a few different places  
but i think you know for the most part you know the teachers have been pretty good and i have got out of it what i have what i have put into it  
so but you know i think i think that's most of it personally  
but that's why i you know with my kids i think that you know i am just going to encourage them to go  
and i am going to try to help them financially  
but uh i think you know financially i am  
there's only so much i can do for them  
and i will say here's what you have got  
you can either you know go a couple of years locally and you know then if you want to move off to a more expensive school then we might be able to handle it but   otherwise you can just go for four years you know somewhere and i will try to try to help you but uh i do not know you know the financial end of it like you said  
i put my wife through school too  
of course t i paid for a lot of the tuition and books and stuff but uh it still was a challenge to do  
and uh so i think you know financially that's that's one of the big aspects  
you know you  
right  
yeah  
well did you uh since you were paid for school yourself do you think you had a different outlook on it like your grades and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
well see i think you know  
i have known a lot of people that would go to school and their parents paid for it  
and and i guess it depends on the way you are raised too  
but if you if you grow to expect that you know   you kind of go there as sort of a vacation you know  
i  
that's the way a lot of my friends did it  
and you know they were not they did not take it very serious  
i know i took it real serious  
because i did not start to college until you know i was about eight or ten years and uh you know out of what i should have been in school  
but uh you know so i think that helped me be real serious about it  
and i i ended up graduating with like a three point six  
yeah  
so i you know  
and that was hard cause i had two kids   and you know a family and everything else  
so i had a lot of different hats to wear all at the same time  
but  
yeah  
you are right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well my wife was sort of in the same situation  
she was she went to school to be a teacher just because she did not really know what else to go   for  
and she did not realize until she got to be a senior and was doing her student teaching that she did not like it  
but you know by then she had practically got her degree  
so  
so you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think i think you are right  
when you pull yourself away and then you get out and you say man i really need this  
uh well let's see  
five  
well any number is nice let me tell you  
yeah  
it's not as fair to the children either i do not think  
oh  
yeah  
but sometimes you can hurt them by having too much quality time too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you can tell  
how to just entertain themselves  
yeah  
yeah  
it's a problem for any child  
and you take one that's used to being uh busy being having something to do all the time it makes a big difference  
uh keeps you busy  
yeah  
well that's great  
no  
our last daughter she did not want to go to school  
she's uh but she's married now  
they built a home just a couple miles from us  
and  
well we did not do it right all the time  
with our first boy we persuaded him to start here  
and i do not always think you should try to make them stay closer to home  
i think the main thing is to uh right now i think the main thing is to look at what they are interested in uh and take what they are interested in  
and then then start looking for schools  
no  
not necessarily  
but mike our oldest boy i think he would have  
he wanted to go to [embrey] [riddle]  
and we talked him into going local here first  
and he only went a few months and then transferred to pittsburgh  
he went to [aeronautical] uh-oh just learning to work on engines and that  
uh it has to do with airplanes and everything which is what his whole life is  
and i really wish we would have let him go where he wanted to go originally  
and he would probably be flying is what he would be doing  
uh but but right now of course he's he's working for [pratt] and [whitney] in connecticut  
and they build and rebuild non jet engines  
uh the other ones uh the second one she chose we let her go where she wanted to uh  
we did not want her to go  
but she went to erie to [gannan] university uh or [gannan] college  
i am not sure which it is  
college i guess  
uh she went there two years  
and it was more expensive  
and she soon realized you know  
even though she did not like clarion she came back and finished at clarion because it uh saved her quite a bit of money  
and she got really the same basic education that she wanted  
and our other two boys they went to clarion also and uh did very well there  
and they have all really got uh they have all really got really good jobs  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
they kind of had that  
they just expected to go  
[daphne] never went  
she always said she would never go to college  
she said i i always thought she would change her mind   you know  
but she did not  
and there's nothing wrong with that you know if  
college is not for everybody  
but uh it it does make a difference in your wage income  
i think it's what they want out of life  
because if they get an education and are willing to go where the jobs are they can make a you know a much better income  
like my kids they are all making more than my husband was making when he retired from the state  
you know that boggles   my mind  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
did you go to college  
you did  
see it makes a difference  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
some place else  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
different life styles  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
it's quite a bit different  
see that's the way we are  
we are more of a rural type of an area  
and it does make a difference  
i they say you should not look at the expense of the college when you are looking  
yeah  
not really  
because they say that a lot of times you get more help   with a more expensive college  
and so in the long run if it's really what they want you know they are better off  
now our children all pretty much borrowed for their school  
uh we we did all we could  
but they pretty much had to borrow a lot of their money to go  
how many  
you said yours are all  
i mean that sounds like an army  
oh lord  
that is an army  
i came from a family of six  
and i have only got two  
and they are one  
well i kind of decided that single single children that that that's not parenting  
that's a hobby  
but  
well do not tell that to all my friends  
they are into quality time  
i am into getting through the day  
well i i i can spot a kid who really you know whose parents spend every   quality time with them you know outside of the work day  
and when i take care of some people's kids   you know  
when they when they have [teachers'] holidays   and that kind of stuff i will take my [friends'] kids   that are usually in day care  
and you can spot them   because they have no idea how to hang out and mess around  
yeah  
really  
it's not a problem for my two  
they are only eighteen months apart  
they can find things to do and mess around   and plot and scheme and everything else  
you did all five of yours complete college  
well how did you go about selecting a college then  
do you think that what they say that they are interested in is at eighteen is going to be what they are ultimately   ultimately graduating at  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how about the other four other three who went  
uh_huh  
when they were like in junior high and high school   i mean had they did they have an idea that they were definitely going to go to college and  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i was   i was making more than i was making three times what my father was making   as an executive in the insurance industry when he retired  
yeah  
i went uh four years to undergrad at university of nebraska at lincoln   because lincoln is where where my parents live  
and there really there really was not a choice  
i mean the finances uh [dictated] that you had to go there  
i kind of  
i am not going to say i resent it  
but i was well you know   one of the national merit scholarship [qualifying] and   you know one of the rhodes [scholars] kids   and the whole bit uh  
my parents did not even discuss with me going to college out of state   or anyplace else  
and i just knew that the finances you know would not support it  
if i had known how not i am not going to say easy but how much less difficult than i thought it would be to get a uh scholarship   to go anyplace else i think that i would definitely you know have gone  
now when i finished there then i got a scholarship to go the harvard university in boston  
and that was uh i think that was probably one of the best things that had ever happened  
i mean i was   taken out of my element you know the [homogeny] midwest   which is a lovely place to grow up   and put into someplace else where   people thought differently   looked differently sounded differently you know   different life style  
and i think it was probably one of the best things that ever happened to me  
now my kids i keep saying that uh you know i would like them to go to the best school that they possibly could  
and i do not know you know what the [realities] you know is going to look like you know  
we are putting money away already  
uh but i really think it's important to put these children someplace where in addition to you know them getting an education they really need a you know a socialization away from what they are raised in   especially if you lived a pretty [insular] community  
and   an upper class suburb of dallas let me tell you   it's very different  
you should not  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
yes  
i did  
i went to a small liberal arts college in virginia  
uh it was [sweeper] college of about seven hundred and fifty students  
i had gone to a small school growing up uh  
and a lot of my friends went to university of michigan  
but my parents were retiring in south carolina when i graduated and uh were looking for a southern school   and uh also u of m seemed overwhelming in size  
and uh what about you  
oh so you're from the midwest too  
uh i live in texas now  
where are you  
oh uh my brother's in austin  
uh he lives [lakeway]  
he uh had moved uh  
we're in plano  
and  
oh austin is so pretty  
i   really like it  
and your daughter is going to be a sophomore  
is uh because you live in austin is she thinking about the university of texas  
oh  
yes  
uh_huh  
those and those were several uh that we did consider  
uh my parents uh certainly didn't push but wanted me to look in the south  
and because i had been in a small school they suggested that i probably i  
when i say small my graduating class had eighteen in it  
and so they suggested that i might want a smaller school because i was used to a lot of one on one   uh or small group situations  
and i did pick it because at the time i was interested in majoring in biology  
and   i also wanted to spend one year studying in europe  
uh i had had an a f s student from germany live with us our senior year  
and we just thought that would be a wonderful thing  
and i ended up majoring in french  
one of the reasons i picked the school was because they had a strong science department  
they also had a strong language department  
and i'd always loved working with children  
uh and i found that i couldn't fit everything in  
but because i had had a fair amount of french going in   i was able to do my year's study in france and able to take a lot of the other courses that interested me  
uh and so   that was some of  
but  
several of the things you mentioned were the things that uh our son has talked a lot about texas a and m  
he but he thinks he wants to be a writer  
and i don't think that  
yes  
uh and really his his graduating class will probably be in the neighborhood of eight hundred and fifty to a thousand  
uh and so he's used to a bigger size  
and because my brother is there uh he would have family close by  
so there there are advantages uh  
but i also  
because i had so many friends who did go from our small school to university of michigan which was so large  
and they really felt uh like they were numbers  
you still  
yeah  
well that's certainly  
uh especially today with the cost of college  
i mean that is a a major uh consideration  
and i do feel fortunate that texas has so many good schools  
and   even though baylor uh  
and when you mentioned that we we have friends who have children there who just love it  
and for a private school it is not as expensive as most are  
and it is a smaller size  
and uh i do feel like there are a lot of options  
it's it's  
but i had been hoping some schools i know give uh-oh  
even this year jay had an aptitude test uh  
yes  
he thinks that's what he'd like to do  
but he's really strong in math and science too  
and   we keep encouraging him to keep an open mind  
does your daughter know what she'd like to do  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
well he but he has even  
now that he's in high school uh  
and of course there's there is still time  
but he's beginning to feel that as much as he enjoys writing he wonders if he can make a living at it  
you know it's the it's  
okay  
well did you go to college  
and where did you go  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i went to the university of minnesota  
i am  
uh_huh  
where do you live now  
well i'm in texas  
i'm in austin  
uh_huh  
i'm familiar with plano  
i visited once or twice  
oh i love it  
i love it  
i really do  
that's correct  
i have two daughters  
but my oldest will be will be a sophomore  
she has her heart set on u t  
and uh you know having gone to the university of minnesota i know what a big university is like  
and uh one thing that i did this summer which i thought might benefit both my daughters is my youngest daughter got involved in band  
and baylor has a band camp  
so she went for a week  
and it was overnight  
and they lived in the dorms  
and i thought this would expose both of them to what it's you know like on a a smaller college campus  
and uh my oldest one just wasn't impressed at all with the idea of a small school  
so uh i i i still think the exposure was good  
the reason i ask if you went to college is i thought well you know  
what were your selection criteria  
did you base it on what you wanted to major in or what you would feel comfortable with or what you could afford  
or you know there's all of these areas to look at in making the decision  
oh wow  
oh definitely  
uh_huh  
oh how exciting  
uh_huh  
oh that was   that worked out very well for you  
well then he should come to u t  
uh_huh  
large classes  
oh i went from a large high school to a large university  
and i   definitely felt like   i was a number  
uh i mean it is a different feeling  
but that was that was my only option  
i i mean i just really couldn't look at anything else  
that was the one and only thing i could really afford other than a you know a junior college which i didn't want to do  
so that's how you know my decision was made  
but uh  
yes  
what what does  
he hopes to be a writer  
huh  
oh she she has uh you know interests that are just you know going in all directions  
uh what she talks about a lot is theater which i think is  
okay [bethany] let's be real  
uh she really is is pretty [unfocussed] at this point  
and i don't know  
she's taken a lot of french  
and she may end up doing something with that  
and i am a single mom  
so i've been  
and i made the mistake of dropping out of college to get married  
so i'm trying to have my children not make the same mistake  
and i'm you know showing them if you're strong in math and science [kiddos] this is one area where women can make some decent money   you know  
i mean i'm kind of really putting the practical application you know and and saying yet do something that you enjoy  
by all means go get that piece of paper you know  
do you just have one son  
i see  
well it sounds like he's got some really you know good strong ideas of what he wants to do  
okay  
i guess our topic is um advice about going to college  
do you have children of your own  
oh are you  
what school are you going to  
oh are you enjoying it  
are you working on your um   bachelor's degree  
and what field of study are you in  
uh_huh  
oh well that's neat  
are you from north carolina  
oh are you really  
oh well what took you to north carolina  
oh i see  
well that was one of the things i was thinking about in school um  
i went to texas tech out in lubbock   and uh i had a friend my roommate went to tech also  
but she was from new mexico  
and she had to pay out of state tuition  
and i think that would have uh played a real big part of my decision  
yeah because um she was  
of course back then it was so much cheaper than it is now  
it was like four dollars a semester hour  
and so i was going to school for you know just a few hundred dollars a semester  
and she was paying forty dollars an hour  
so she paid ten times as much because she was out of state  
oh that's good  
yeah  
so i think that would be one thing i would definitely consider   try to find a school within the state that um i liked well enough to attend  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
that was something else i had was i had government aid of course  
but uh it was wonderful because i got one of those grants that you don't have to repay  
and yeah  
it was so nice  
it paid most of my tuition and um a lot of the book costs and that kind of thing  
so  
yeah  
i really  
i'm sorry what did you say  
well it was called a b e o g a basic equal opportunity grant  
and it was from the government  
and it was based at first it was based on my parents' income  
my parents had five children and really didn't make enough money to send any of us to school  
and so uh because based on the number of children and the amount of money uh my father brought in i got a small grant  
but then after that i was on my own working and you know trying to go to school on my own  
so then i got a real big grant because the   amount of money i was making really didn't compare  
so it was kind of nice  
i don't know if those are still available or not  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
this was great  
it was just based on you know how much your tuition costs and everything  
and generally it paid everything  
so   i went to school about three years of my four for almost nothing  
so that was  
yeah  
it was really nice  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
um i didn't know that  
um well i guess the only comparison i had ever heard was between a a christian college because i thought about attending abilene christian   instead of texas tech  
and of course the price was just astronomical compared to tech  
the christian college was so much more expensive  
but i guess some of the other smaller colleges might might be a lot different  
really  
yeah  
yeah huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you're just a number  
right  
yeah  
oh that's a shame  
well i i felt a little [cheated] at tech also  
once i got into my  
i um majored in  
uh_huh  
oh no  
i don't have any children  
but i'm still going to college  
uh_huh  
n c state  
um well it's a lot of work  
my bachelor's  
uh_huh  
um it's actually in computer science  
and i have a special interest in voice i o  
no  
i'm actually from amarillo texas originally  
uh_huh  
oh um the service  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
it would have played a major part in mine  
uh_huh  
golly  
yeah  
luckily i've paid in state tuition the whole time  
uh_huh um  
uh_huh  
the second thing is some colleges only offer the uh liberal arts   and uh whereas like state they offer engineering courses  
so depending on what your major is or medical you might want to some um attend somewhere like tech  
and um aside from the uh  
well some schools may even give you financial aid where another one won't  
oh really  
um  
wow that's great  
was it a [pell] grant  
what kind of grant was it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
um  
uh i'm not quite  
there's there's a lot of different organizations who uh who do give grants  
but uh i'm not exactly sure which ones they are and how much they you know they generally run  
uh_huh  
golly that's great  
oh another thing  
i've got a i've got a degree from another college  
and uh something that might play a part is the size of the college  
uh the smaller schools can give you a lot uh a lot more specialized instruction   and attention than the larger schools  
in the larger schools you get caught up in the bureaucracy  
and   and they just give you a teacher's assistants you know  
instead of a scholar you get a t a  
and uh you don't get near the uh quality of education  
and as well the uh smaller schools often times don't cost as much  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um oh i at state i think it's just a waste of somebody's money to go there  
it's really a shame because of you know the instruction  
um i'd rather go to any other college you know in the state  
and i would definitely get my money's worth uh much better than state  
it's kind of unfortunate because they've they've just grown so big that they just don't care about the students any more  
yeah  
they're they're bent on uh seeing how much land how much more land they can get and how much uh how much of the campus they can build up  
and uh  
yeah  
it's really a bad situation here  
jay um  
my kids are are both in college um  
and i'd i played a fairly active part in helping them decide where to go  
on the other hand they really decided themselves  
um what what kind of experience did you have  
uh_huh  
um  
i see  
well i may maybe i'm wrong  
but i think it makes a big difference in terms of finding a school that is sort of right for the child in terms of his or her [happiness] and   and and the appropriate support environment and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did did you play a a strong role in helping them pick schools  
or   did you just sort of say listen to your guidance counselors  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's a great idea  
i mean that  
right  
it's it seemed expensive at the time you're doing it but but the   compared to the the total decision it's nothing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well back back to this visiting thing  
i mean i found that my kids had no conception what college was really like   and and that the process of going around to a few schools with them really helped them understand  
and being able to go with them to at least some of them   gave me a chance to explain things to them and to uh in reference to what we had seen  
good grief  
good grief  
what is twenty one thousand  
what school is that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
helps to at least set up   range of things to look at  
uh_huh  
well i uh  
one girl went in in state and has graduated  
and then uh that was uh you know that was her choice pretty much where she wanted to go  
and i have uh one out of two out of state both in missouri  
and um i teach uh in a college  
and so i they had heard me talk about it and for years that i didn't think it really made too much difference where they went for their undergraduate  
uh so that was   pretty much uh  
oh oh if they if they're content there  
i mean as far as the education as far as looking at the degree at the end that uh it's very little difference is paid   to it where you get that bachelor's  
uh if it's a halfway decent school   they should be happy naturally  
and if they can get uh um two out of  
let's see my son got a full total scholarships  
and so there's uh there's plenty of scholarships out there  
and so people should be [advised] to look for those  
and um  
uh  
well they uh  
i went we went around  
my son was a graduated from a jesuit high school  
and so he he was pretty much looking for a jesuit university  
and so there   you know  
that was limited to five or six different places  
and um so he's in saint louis u  
and i guess i played a role in that  
i i just sort of uh let them um you know  
they'd all been uh   pretty efficient as far as studies  
and uh so i didn't have that much to do  
they just uh   they just knew they wanted to go to college  
and i you know helped them get there as far as   traveling with them to look at different   places  
we did do that  
and i would suggest a person always goes and looks at the school before they sign up  
some people don't do it  
and then they get there and hate it or whatever  
so   if it's possible  
right  
i think in the short run it is expensive  
in the long run it's very uh reasonable   if the person  
my daughter has been in in missouri for a second year  
now she's coming home at the end of the semester  
so uh you know she's already twenty one  
she started late  
so that's you know strictly up to her  
and uh she'll finish down here uh uh finish this year down here and then decide what she's going to do next year  
it'll save me a lot of money because i'm not going to have to pay out of state tuition  
but again that's her decision  
so uh but i have so many students in my classes that have dropped out and come back  
and they're much better students at twenty five twenty six may twenty eight  
so you know i don't i never have pushed them  
i just say that education is important you should do it uh  
but uh they have to do the work  
so uh  
right  
yeah  
oh i think so  
and also i'm opposed to the to the size  
they've just gotten so huge  
and so my daughter first looked at a place that was forty thousand  
see that's just too many  
ended up going to where i used to go  
and that was twenty five hundred when i went there  
it's twenty one thousand now  
it's too big  
so  
pardon  
it's southwest missouri state university  
and uh it was twenty five hundred when i went there forty years ago  
and uh my son's in a school about seven thousand  
and that's that's not bad  
i teach in a school about eight thousand  
and that's that's even a little large  
but it's much better than twenty one thousand  
but they do have to visit and if if the parent can point out all the different places to look for   for scholarships  
and then oh those rating uh  
the magazines and all those things are doing the ratings now and everything  
i don't think it hurts to look at them  
i don't put that much stock in them  
but  
probably fine just to compare  
right  
if they you know uh they need to  
i was going to say my uh college is northern state university in aberdeen south dakota  
and our head football coach dennis [muir] used to be an assistant coach at b y u  
so i thought that was kind of an interesting coincidence  
uh northern state university in aberdeen south dakota  
i  
in what major or what year  
international business  
yeah  
and you  
okay  
well that sounds interesting  
how long of a program is that  
you know i read a study once  
and it said that uh like thirty four percent of uh college students actually graduate in four years from a four year program  
it took me it took me five years  
so you just you get started  
and you change your mind  
or you want to pick up a second major  
if you're management you you thought i i'll take that marketing  
it's just only was three more classes   you know  
and you just doesn't happen that you get out in four years  
but  
my advice is   is uh look for at the student to faculty ratio you know  
if you're going to go to a college where student faculty ratio is three and four hundred to one i don't think you're going to have as meaningful of a college experience as if you're down to the thirty to forty to one  
yeah  
it was about twenty six to one  
yeah  
which is you know  
it it's interesting  
but it it's  
what i thought was nice is you could there was always time to talk to professor you know  
and and they knew you  
you weren't just in their class you know  
and so you could you could go talk to them in their office almost at any time  
and or if you ran into them in the student union or whatever you know you could sit down talk to them about a problem  
they're always willing to help you out  
so but i i's i i put that against uh my high school where we had uh a biology class of three hundred and fifty students  
and  
yeah  
it was a biology lecture class  
and you know it it just wasn't the same  
you're sitting there  
and you're taking notes  
and you know you got a computerized test scores multiple choice because there's no way they could correct a three hundred fifty point short answer test   uh you know a three hundred fifty person short answer test  
and it just wasn't the same  
you you'd run you'd pass the teacher in high school  
and even in high school you could say high to your teachers unless you're in that biology class  
and they just they'd look at you like do i know you  
or should i know you  
do you get uh a lot of tutoring  
or  
uh_huh  
and you could get there  
and his office hours could i mean he could have like a nine to eleven in the morning office hours and have forty two people waiting to talk to him  
and you still didn't get to talk to him anyway  
well what would be your advice to a parent of a child thinking of attending college  
that's excellent advice  
well it it it does get it  
you know you get to the point where it's i'm never going to get done  
you know i i mean i was taking summer classes  
and let me get out of here  
but uh no  
that's good advice  
even if you don't have your major decided on have an idea what you think you might want you know  
so you don't want management  
but you think you want business  
oh really  
huh  
so you went to what college  
and what did you graduate in  
yeah  
major  
oh really  
i'm going to b y u  
and i'm going into nursing  
so  
forever  
seems like anyways  
it's about five years  
but it's probably going to take me longer because i didn't decide to major in that until uh about a year and a half after i was already in school  
so  
oh really  
that sounds  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so what is your advice to   picking a college  
uh_huh  
is that what was yours more like  
was there a  
really  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
wow in high school  
oh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there's it's  
the classes here are pretty big  
so it's hard to get individual help  
it's kind of you're on your own  
no  
very little i mean  
well like my  
for example i have i'm in a chemistry class right now  
and there's tons of students in it  
and there's one t a for the whole class  
and he only has certain office hours  
and so there's only certain times you can talk to him  
and  
right  
yeah  
oh man i think your advice is good  
um let's see my advice would be to pick a major before you get into college  
because i i didn't  
and i took tons of classes that i didn't need to  
and um i don't know  
i just feel like i'm it's it's going to take me a lot longer than  
and not that's always bad  
but it's  
i don't know  
it's frustrating i guess  
right  
yep  
uh advice on son or daughter going to college  
uh that's advice that i will need in time future   for my children rather than one that i have uh personal experience with  
uh i suppose i would ask what the child wants to do in life and what the child hopes to to get out of college   and what sort of college would best meet meet those needs  
what advice   would you give  
i guess one clear cut piece of advice is by all means visit the college campus  
uh stay in a dormitory if you can  
go to classes  
talk to faculty members and students  
yes  
i'm thinking   what what problems my children might have in that uh  
but i agree with you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well course it it is a big factor in having an understanding of how much parents will pay and how much has to come from other sources and you're willingness one to to work during the summer or or   part time   and two uh to to take out loans to assume uh debt after college  
yes  
mine is twelve  
that's my gut feeling too  
i  
my son is certainly not persuaded of that  
hello  
oh yeah uh  
yes  
i didn't have a car in college  
i   think it's more an a burden to to provide for  
is it  
uh i didn't do any of those though  
i   feel less strongly about the t v and refrigerators  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh let's see  
when i when i went away to school i'm trying to think my criteria  
i guess when you're when you're eighteen or so uh it would be important to know if it was a coed college  
that was a a strict requirement for me  
uh again what uh how serious a person is according to uh uh you know what what they want to get out of school and uh i guess they'd have to consider how expensive the college is and how close to home if they could handle being away for real long periods of time or if they need to be somewhere where they can drive home when they needed to get home  
uh let's see uh  
now what was the question  
what what's the criteria for picking a college  
what advice  
oh okay uh  
yes  
yes  
and also uh depending on how uh uh adjustable your child would be or or flexible i guess it would be uh  
if if they chose a college in a different part of the country that maybe the they were [unused] to their that the way they run things  
i mean the the northern colleges are very different than the southern colleges i think  
the people are different  
and uh you have to be more flexible and more willing to uh uh adjust to other people's [mannerisms] and [customs] or ways of doing things  
you know you have to be a flexible person to be able to go all the way across country to something totally different than what you're used to uh  
you think so  
uh let's see  
what else  
uh well climate would be  
you know you'd have to  
you know is somewhat  
if uh if it's something different than the one they're used to i guess uh  
if they're used to the northern weather then the southern weather they might kind of feel like they need to go out and play all the time not be in studying if you're in florida or california uh  
i i'd also advise them that uh if mom and dad paid for their college that uh if they decided to drop a course or decided that they need another year then they'd have to get a loan to continue  
that's right  
there's  
the the responsibility of that  
and uh uh uh they could they could work and earn money towards college  
also if they stay within their state you get a lot more financial aid  
or it's a lot cheaper if you stay within your state   than if you go out of state to a private school uh  
and like i said if they was willing to work uh in the summers and also maybe then the parents could pay a third  
and then maybe they could take out a loan for a third depending on how expensive it is  
by the time i have an eleven year old is my oldest  
so it's not too far away  
but it's  
oh okay  
but it's getting there  
i mean we still have definitely can put away the money for college now  
uh i would advise that that they did not have a car at college  
they would  
yes  
i'm here  
no  
i think so too  
i think i think because most kids don't have a car at college the ones that do get taken advantage of  
and you know there is just i think it's just trouble waiting to happen  
so i would advise they didn't they didn't take a car  
and uh   they didn't take a television  
and they didn't take a refrigerator  
maybe that  
no  
i i  
yeah  
we didn't have  
okay  
scott let's uh talk about advice that we can offer a parent where the child is going to go to a university  
and  
i have some yes some children  
i have three boys  
and they're all quite young  
and so we want to plan for their education  
or we're saving right now  
and we're getting bonds and and uh and hopefully finances set aside so that they can choose a college that they want to  
how about yourself  
do you have any kids  
so i imagine you've gone through the experience yourself of selecting your college   your own college  
very good  
what uh what do you use as a basis to determine which college or university you go to  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what you thought huh  
just the degree itself  
well that's a that's that's good because i did quite a bit the same thing in my undergraduate work  
i wanted to get a school that was small enough that was [personable]   that you didn't have a lecture uh hall with about fifteen other students competing for the [professor's] attention  
and uh but you i felt that i got a pretty good uh undergraduate uh  
i went to utah state university   which is in logan utah  
and the nice thing about it too is i knew that i wanted to get into business and that their business college of business was [accredited]  
and well known   at least there in the state of utah   and around the surrounding states and so forth  
and so i i feel like number one you you also need to see what kind of name the  
like you mentioned before the name the college and university can can give you   and another thing that uh another reason why i chose that was the the finances  
i wanted to make sure that i would be able to afford it that i wouldn't get through four three years of the undergraduate work and and have to leave  
and uh so i did a lot of talking with friends with family   with uh counselors at high school and also read some some books on on the subject at the at the library  
and uh it was kind of unusual because my my two older brothers and i all went to three different universities depending on what our choice was  
so  
hopefully we we chose the one that was best for us  
and i i felt very comfortable and good about that  
so  
i don't think so  
i don't know  
the the way that tuition is increasing um [exponentially]   it's it's it's kind of hard to set aside money and have that money grow   at the same pace that the college tuition is increasing  
i uh  
and that that your children can use the benefits of   that university  
well that's an excellent idea  
that's an excellent idea  
one thing that uh that we did uh and my parents and our family is that we weren't able to afford um the kind of education that we all desired  
so my parents stressed that we get excellent grades so that we apply and try for scholarships  
and uh scholarships were very beneficial in my case to help pay for my education because my parents couldn't  
and what the scholarship could not supply i was able to to work for and   and save and and and get  
also my my brother um he's a he's a medical doctor right now  
he had to you know  
once he got past his undergraduate and graduate degree he had to take out some loans  
and he's he's working to pay those off  
so i i think that the uh you know once you get past uh the initial stages of it that there's different options you can use  
and and uh   the student loans are are good options  
yeah  
yes  
and and as you're well aware that [tuition's] not  
uh_huh  
do you have any  
do you have any kids  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i'm in i'm in graduate school right now  
yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
in fact i'm even going uh selecting again for for my p h d  
it's it's a close subject right now  
uh  
well i use uh uh uh i have used uh several techniques depending on what  
for undergraduate i i you know my criteria were much different than   than like for graduate school  
uh when i when i wanted to go to an undergraduate institution i was looking for something that was you know rather small and easy to get around you know   and what i would what i thought would be easy to get through  
yeah  
and and uh my choice of graduate schools was uh you know it changed a whole lot  
i i got to where i i wanted to uh graduate with a little you know with a name behind me rather than uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
where where did you go  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
do you do you worry do you worry any about uh uh being able  
i mean obviously you've taken precautions you know or measures to uh try and pay for your children's education  
but do you think that that's going to be enough  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i all i all i can hope for is that i land a [professorship] at a nice heavy university  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what that's my biggest option right now  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
damn it i agree with pretty much with everything you've said  
uh the one the one thing that i you know i'd advise any parent uh you know or any or any person looking for a college uh is that i think i think you know it's really important for them to actually visit the college and actually try and get away from you know the guided tour of the college and try and talk to the you know actual students there  
because you know they're just uh in my experience  
i've talked to people at other colleges uh that you know  
the the the way the you know the the the lifestyle pictured in the catalogs isn't always the whole story  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i go to georgia tech which is you know primarily an engineering school  
and uh you know i think i really do miss the fact you know that it's not a university that there's there's not the the you know  
it tends to be a very conservative school  
and there and there doesn't seem to be the diversity of views that a lot of you know universities will will have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i don't really know of anyone that's like that's looking for colleges now you know because it with the exception of uh people's younger brothers and sisters  
then the only advise passed down is don't go to georgia tech  
uh but uh no  
actually i'm i'm i'm more interested in in in choosing the right job when you graduate   type information  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
program  
uh_huh  
uh uh  
uh_huh  
like a fine arts education  
i  
uh_huh  
okay  
well mark our situation is that we do have a daughter that is uh in the situation of choosing college  
she's actually at bible college for this current year  
and uh i guess uh first and foremost it really it's a question of what the student wants to have in the way of a career and then uh uh which colleges or universities can best offer that program  
and then it comes down to the dollar  
you have to uh  
it's whether or not you're a resident for that jurisdiction  
or   you know it does  
it comes down to uh   trying to come with a trade off of the costs  
uh what do you feel about come of the things that need to  
no  

the the college  
the the catalogs are sales material  
it doesn't matter   whether you know they're they're selling school  
and uh and true  
it uh really is helpful if a parent and the student can get there and see   the real character of the school and the real life experiences of the school  
uh i guess there's a difference in  
here the  
at least   the university here in saskatoon is primarily uh off campus resident students  
like they just live in the community  
uh you know i know that there are a lot of colleges and universities particularly as they get to be a little bit on the smaller side where dormitory life is uh is right on campus as well  
and that you know that changes the character   of it quite a bit  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i guess we're here  
this is the university that has for years had the the car that uh will travel the farthest on uh on a small quantity of gas  
our engineering students  
uh in competitions  
and that's the kind of thing that also you see uh if you can see the kinds of [achievements] that have been made by students as well as graduates   can give you idea of the character of the school  
uh whether you you know in one sense whether you've got a spirit of innovation and [excellence] or whether you've got a a spirit of somewhat [unkind] but   producing graduates  
uh you know as sort of some development and some training uh  
like it's easy enough to crank out graduates but to really challenge them  
and uh and that can vary between colleges and faculties even as to how you know what the attitude towards achievement is  
uh do you uh have anyone that you're seriously needing to uh feed information to  
i suppose if you're actually at georgia tech as a student you're a ways away from that  
right  
well that's that's one of the really a valid point that people need   to consider as well  
uh you know to  
going to college university is going to take four to eight years depending on the   programs person's involved in  
and after that you have to be out in the real world and have to be able to support yourself  
and if you go in an area that there is just not much of a job market  
jeez  
if that's  
right  
best training in the world is not going to put food on your table  
but uh  
that's funny
i didn't expect to have any more calls
i thought i was uh through i had done ten
i thought ten was the maximum yeah
i've been writing mine down just in case anything you know just
i did i don't any more
my husband does
oh well where you going
oh how neat
well that's a good choice
oh [onum] yeah
i know them
i used to work with them
i was a mechanical engineer
i did uh package design
and i when we first contacted on them
years ago i was part of the gene [rickey] was part of that
yep
probably
yeah
he's been there for since i left
well i worked up there for a year
oh yeah
he made a lot of trips
i don't know him
um
that's sound like a good deal
yeah
go ahead
yes
well how did they decide which colleges to go to and what'd you tell them
um
yeah
that's kind of the way i was when i started school i was in midland and when i was looking for things and what i probably recommend to other people was something that i was comfortable with
and i wasn't quite ready to be a long ways off
and i knew i wanted to be in engineering
so i was looking for a good engineering school
so i ended up going to tech in lubbock
so i was there i was you know two hours away from home
so any weekend
i wanted to come home
i got in the car hopped you know i was home in a couple of hours
and so that worked out real well
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
oh well
that'd be good
i think he'd enjoy a lot
it's a good school
it's a good place to grow up
oh so though
so academic standards will improve yeah
absolutely
yes
and a lot of people that i knew would go to school in some really in rochester
and some of these really nice these name schools and of course they would get out
but they got they ended up getting more or less the same job i did
and then they
but they're thirty thousand in debt from student loans
no
yes
it's what you do after that
yeah
yeah
it's incredible now
yeah
yeah
and they're all going to be paid back they're going to be in debt for the rest of their lives
i guess the main thing
if i was recommending to someone like you said you've got you've got do something you can afford
but then to go to a school that also is somewhat well known at least in the state for what you want to do like tech is known to be a good engineering school and a and m maybe is known more for computers
and that kind of thing i would i would if you know what you're going to do
i think that would be important to deal with too because when then when you do try to get your foot in the door at the various the companies that you would possibly want to work for tend to interview more heavily at those locations because they know that that particular school had a good department you know in computer science or in engineering or in business or or whatever
uh_huh
will transfer so that's good
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i think to some extent you're right
most people have a general idea
and then there's there's probably fifty percent have a general idea
and the other fifty percent are waiting to see what hits them when they get there
um
yes
i had yeah
i was in public school i was in all honors classes
i was also a national merit scholar
and i had
i think the other things that a lot of kids could benefit from in high school is taking an aptitude test
because there are some good ones out there
and i know in our high school at least they offered several different ones where you went through and you know you answer all these questions back and forth and things
it ended up being things you liked versus things that you had an aptitude
so you have three cats
what type
okay
i'm trying to i don't know
the first two
yeah
of course
that's the ones that always look like they are sort of scary
okay
uh_huh
is yours skinny
or is it a [tubby] one
uh_huh
and so she's young
uh_huh
and how did the kittens come out
are you keeping them sold them all
uh
oh i guess i've never been around a cat when it was in heat
i'll probably be happy about it
uh_huh
well a friend of mine
i i don't remember what types they have
but they are really really fuzzy yeah
i think she has a himalayan but i'm not sure
okay
hm
she sounds really pretty
how old is she
well she's just a tiny little thing they are [adorable] at that age too
wow
does she like to sit on top of whatever you are reading and things like that
not on the keyboard my friend's cat
gets on the keyboard you know
uh_huh
that come from her
more peaceful
my uh one set of friends has four cats
and let's see these four cats two of them are sort of [strays] i guess
then the other two one of which i thought was a himalayan and the other one i'm not sure
but they are both so cute
and they are like big [fuzz] balls
and they're almost more like dogs
one's name is [malcolm] and he sort of follows you from room to room
wherever you go and things like that
so it's really really cute
i didn't until i watched my friend's cats
i watched a different friends two cats one of them is really old
the other one also had been like a stray
but he's huge
and we think part [angora] he he's black
could that be
i don't
[longhaired] yeah
and
yeah
he was a real wild one
and uh but he was fun
one time i was cooking chicken and i make taken all the chicken breasts off the bones and i had this whole stack of nice chicken breasts left
and he jumped from the floor probably about four and a half feet high and grabbed one of them off and [devoured] it before i could get near him
really
wow
have you ever taken videos of her or something that would be fun
huh
uh_huh
maybe she likes the smell of it
that's amazing
that's really cute
now maybe she will type something that you need for you
and then you will be in good shape like the paper
oh
when i had uh cats at my place
as soon as i took out the newspaper to read it
they would plop right down on top of it
and just not move and just stay there forever
uh_huh
she pays kitty cat back for all the hassle
have you always had cats
did you have them when you were a kid
my brother was [asthmatic] and so we never had pets in the house we had a dog for a little bit of the time
and then but that's why i never really liked cats you know i always thought cats were loose and sort of the typical thing you say about cats you know they don't they don't they're not people animals and things like that
and i favor dogs a lot
but dogs are just too impractical to have at all
oh yeah
it's impossible people have them
and they're out walking them on the street
but i don't think it's fair to the animals
yeah
you let your cats outside
are you afraid they will get stolen or run away or
well that's for sure
uh_huh
how old is she again
you breed them that young
i mean like a year
i see
but you breed them the first time they go into heat
oh
really
wow that's amazing
i would have thought that it would be better to wait a little bit
uh_huh
are you going to try and breed her several times
or you will see how the first breeding goes
or
uh_huh
how expensive are the [thoroughbred] cats to get
that's not bad
but you certainly want to protect them after that
wow
how much can you sell the litter for you know the same type of price if they are good
or you know the same type of place
if they are good
yeah
what should i tell my parents huh
not being a parent
but being a student
uh i guess i'd say there's a lot of things
uh i think they need to provide a lot of guidance during high school
preparing them for the college they want to go to and then it's a trade off between what you know what you got to find out what a kid wants out of college you know
is it uh a a social thing
or is he looking to make big bucks later with a with a name brand college so to speak
things like you know
do you go to s m u you want to spend all that money and get that name
or do you you know you you just kind of wasting your time to spend all that money if you're not going to use the degree for something
i don't think in high school you know
but i think that's when you should start being exposed to the ideas and start asking some questions
having the you know somebody that's been to college needs to sit down and explain these things to you
you know i went in not knowing anything
and if i'd a had a little better idea what was going on
i'd a probably made a lot of decisions differently
oh i'd probably started sooner and taken courses in high school that would have prepared me better for for what i was going to see
probably not in my situation i don't have the money for it
but uh then again it's kind of hard to say where i would have gone had i been thinking about it back in high school
so
i think i don't know
to me college was a was a
i knew nothing about what it was going to be like it's it's a whole different thing than high school you know just go up and show up and stay up all day
and and you know they tell you what to do
and you do it
it's kind of a you drop in a couple times a week
and it's up to you to to learn it and get it done
so i think those are the kinds of things that parents should let their kids know if they know themselves
yeah
college is a whole different ball game
no
so yeah
right
decent price yeah
yeah
right
right
that
right
right
right
a lot of the schools i i think i don't know for sure
but i think the schools up in the northern states are generally provide a better education i could be wrong about that
but my experience with texas schools has not been all that great
yeah
yeah
i had this topic uh the last time i called i believe
well do you have any uh children
or are you in college
i see
well
certainly
and where did your uh children go to college
well that's great
i see
well that's great
i'm the director of admissions at u t d
well what advice did you give them when they were choosing their colleges it looks like they uh you have a variety there
well well you're going right down my list
uh the first thing that i always talk to students about is the academic program
because if we don't have what you're looking for it isn't going to do you any good
no matter how bad
you want to come here
and uh cost is always uh usually next on the list
especially for the parents
and financial assistance and scholarships
and usually then we talk a little bit about uh the size of the school
and uh different types of organizations and activities that they can get involved in and of course distance from home and size of classes and it sounds like uh from your experience you know how to go right down the list with them
yeah
you know it's interesting
especially when uh my experience uh has always been at a public university and a lot of the students in that home town uh sometimes [shun] the idea of staying and going to school across the street so to speak
but uh it always seems like at the beginning of the year they're talking about
well i'm going to this state
and i'm getting out of here and i'm going way over there
and a lot of times when it gets right down to the practical aspect of it
they end up staying pretty darn close to home because they can save money
as far as housing and uh laundry
you bet
it sure does
sure
well there's a little barrier around the washing machine and the dryer
and for some reason men just can't get around that barrier
uh i have a daughter that's a seventh grader
and then i have a son that's a sophomore at [shepton] high school
and so it's uh it's been interesting them uh sign up for appropriate course work and things
and they're they're on the college bound track at least
well uh they certainly have two different personalities but uh in terms of needs the older son is interested in the medical field
and uh at this particular point you know taking appropriate course work
but really nothing that's out of the ordinary and the daughter has indicated that she wants to get a degree in uh business um
and then go on to become president
sure
you bet
and
no
go ahead
you called
uh_huh
yeah
well i i don't know
i think it depends a lot on um well all those things
that's true
but i got my daughter into college last year
and it was really a major decision
but there were just so many things to consider and i don't really think we even considered all of the things we should have
uh so she's out in california
yeah
but what we didn't consider was coming back and forth and things like that you know
yeah
really
so that's kind of
that was kind of hard
so i don't know
i think it's always confusing
it's hard to make a choice
uh_huh
it really is
and you don't get to come home as much as you think you will
yeah
yeah
yeah
so it's really hard to
and i don't think you even know that answer until you go either
you know everybody's anxious to get going
and get away and go do their thing
but then they really want to come home
and they can't always
so that's kind of hard too
that's true
isn't it
yeah
it is
i know
well the size of the school because we live in plano
so the schools are really big here
very crowded
so she didn't want a school that was really too big
and we looked at that
and i don't know that that's really relevant because you're going to end up with your little group anyway
so i'm not sure that it makes too much a difference although we did find that like down in texas uh at u t
you know down in austin that those classes are so full like you can have two hundred kids in a class that would be horrible
that's horrible
oh my gosh
yeah
where are you going
and it's that crowded is it really
oh
yeah
yeah
wow gosh
yeah
where are you in college now
junior yeah
my daughter went to plano east too
she [twirled] yeah
she was the only twirler they've ever had
but that's what she's doing out in california
that's why she's out there because we had to consider where a good spot was too
and
yeah
yeah
well
but a lot of times kids aren't sure what they want to be like she started out with sport psychology
so we looked all over that was a hard thing to find
and then she changed her mind anyway
and i think most most people do that
i think they say you know
yeah
see and they say that that's average
that that's very common
so maybe that's not such a great reason to look at a school i don't know
yeah
well she was too when you live in plano you know you sort of have everything they really spoiled everybody here at school
we all are
all our kids are you know to be honest and we went out to u s c because they wanted her to [twirl] for them
and she was terrified she was just terrified of living in l a
she was too scared to go there
so i guess you have to look at that too
and i understood it at the time when we went to the campus and visited i thought oh gosh
it would just
yeah
that's certainly helpful
your last suggestion there about saying within state
i realize that there are a lot of schools and unless the uh student has a real specialty
and there
oh maybe are one or two universities that are highly respected in that field
they really ought to try to stay within their state
i mean financing in universities now is getting a very very high
and they can't help themselves on that either
so it certainly is an advantage to stay within your own state
yeah
uh_huh
well that's very important
well that was certainly uh good advice to get him to go to a school who follows up and has such a reputation that others are happy to get their students that that means that the quality of what he was taught must be uh uh very very high
and that's good for him too
regardless of where he works he has uh a top level of information that will last him the rest of his life basically
uh_huh
well we have that same situation here
i'm i'm a retired professor at penn state
and uh the field
i worked in was acoustics
and we have an acoustics department here
and we have lots of students several hundred
i guess in in acoustics
and they have an excellent opportunity to follow through on their fields because our university is well known for it's research
in addition to uh teaching obviously if we can do high class research we must be well trained and and uh available to teach the students
well
yes
yes
yes
because penn penn state is very well known in uh many of its uh of its fields
and uh we we get a lot we'd uh we only we get our sort of say we get state uh students not only from out of state
but from all over the world
i mean they they they really come here we have a very high a percentage of foreign students because penn state is pretty well tops in many of its fields
and we have doubled in size in the last fifteen twenty years i guess
uh_huh
yes
that's true
yeah
i had five go through college
we put five through college
uh_huh
uh two at texas a and m
and three at north texas
right
so
uh_huh
right
right
right
uh_huh
that's probably your best
bet
because you know you narrow it down
you're better off
i think
in that
and
right
right
is he going on for his master's in the engineering
uh_huh
you almost need a master's in
like if he's in engineering
in his major right now
one of his majors anyway
right now to do anything with it
no matter what field you're in
uh well my daughter uh both daughters
let me see one daughter was in uh business
and business degree
and then the other
daughter was in a special ed degree
and lives and works works with [autistic] children
uh_huh
and then the other one was a personnel director
uh down in houston for um several years seven years
and then uh my son is a c p a
and another has a business degree
and then the fifth one is he was hotel management but actually he's in the sign business now and making signs
and uh likes that
and has kind of hit on a nice setup with that
he is local
right here in richardson
and he really loves it
uh_huh
and it's uh you know that the type of signs they do is new in the last five years
it's the latest thing in signs
it's the type that you put on the put on windows and it [peels] off kind of like it's painted on
yes
so he
yeah
right
he has the dallas uh furniture mart uh clothing mart
and the world trade center all tied up in that he has so yeah
so it's a nice deal
yeah
he has he's just starting in it
but it seems to be a real up and coming thing
because everything's so portable any more
i mean you know things are not stable and people are renting places for a short
times
and they don't want anything permanent any more
so it works out quite well
right
right
uh_huh
or on to a larger place
and not put that much into anything permanent so it it works out pretty well for him
it is it's wonderful it's wonderful
so
oh
right
the other son the other son used the library a lot in the college section
for scholarships
and uh my daughters and sons both did that
and they they came up with some of the you know you would never think of
hello
my name's dan nice to meet you
i think so
well no
uh luckily i don't i just rent them
yeah
i'm a i'm an assistant scout master for a boy scout troop
yeah
it's it's it's it's so much better to to rent
yeah
ooh that's uh let's see
i used to be able to do this quite well
but that was when i was in college
yeah
the college that i've got that that i went to was pretty good
which was cal [poly] in [pomona] and uh uh it was a regular it was a state university
and it seemed to be pretty good
oh really
which one
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well my my parents wanted me to go to uh community college
and uh i ended up getting into the university
and they never really said anything about it until my sisters went to college
they went to the community college and my my father's going gee
it it it uh costs a lot more or just as much to go to community college and you aren't getting as much you know
so
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
uh_huh
well because his parents gave him a car to go there
well you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's that's the way colleges are right now
anyway is they they have a bunch of kids come down
they say hey you want to be here
it's it's so it's pointed towards you
and if they sell you
well enough there ain't nothing that's going to change your mind
we're consumers in society
uh_huh
yeah
you got to got to find the good classes and things like that
well i can imagine that i i started off the the counselor at the high school said oh you want to do this wanted to go into [aerospace] and i went and my first day of [enrollment] in college i walked around
i go into the [aerospace] building
and they gave me the curriculum
and it's like twenty one units to twenty four units a quarter
yeah
average is like you know supposed to be like sixteen eighteen you know
you know this is like i don't want to be a doctor
yeah
happened to be walking down the hall turned into some some other [instructor's] office and said help me
and he sold me on his program
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
there's some tests like that you know
but they're kind of strange some of them you know it's like
you you you should be a cement mixer or something like that you know
and the guy walked in going
yeah
but i wanted to be a psychologist
yeah
well i think i think the biggest thing that's important is is to learn enough about the student to match the student
well to the to the school
and one thing i learned i went undergraduate to harvard and then came out to berkeley
and it's pretty clear that there are some people who thrive at berkeley uh
and there are some people who who just die here because of the the amount of support that's given and the amount of uh bureaucracy you have to deal with
and other things like that
uh in a large public school
i think in general
and uh this is a school with some thirty thousand students and it is set up in such a fashion that students register for classes months in advance
and if they don't get them they may not get a chance to take them that year uh average graduation has crept up closer and closer to five years largely because of the number of students who can't get all of the courses to fulfill their major on time uh on the other hand this is
it is
and it's happening in in a lot of public schools uh because of of budget cuts
but on the other hand what it does provide is for the uh for students who who need a chance to be forced to fend for themselves uh who have perhaps been too isolated this is a a case where they're they're forced to do that
and and my wife went here as an undergraduate she had been sort of protected right through high school and and had to learn to to make it on her own and she graduated from the place in four years by learning to be smart and picking courses that uh at the right times
and right priorities and i can see that as advantageous but there are a lot of people for whom this is just a waste of time
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
just to be able to find a job that you would qualify for
yeah
well i i think one of the reasons that i don't see that as as much of a problem
see i would encourage people to go into college not knowing what they want to do because so many of the high schools have done such a bad job at introducing different areas
that it may be that what you want to do
and it may be a very practical thing to go into doesn't seem attractive because what you have learned of it so far is is not interesting a lot of people are turned off from math because of high school math and going to a school that offers a lot of choice and taking your first year or two to explore what the choices are still gives you plenty of time
and and then eventually focus on a single major
i certainly wouldn't say to go to a liberal arts school that doesn't have a strong science program
uh and i'd even encourage a liberal arts school with an engineering program
but i tend to look i don't like what i see from the students who are graduating here with engineering degrees where seventy five or eighty percent of their time is spent in a [prearranged] technical curriculum
and they are moving here towards a program where they have a bachelor of arts and a master of science combined where you get a general education with guaranteed admission into an engineering degree for a [masters'] degree
okay
well having uh personally uh helped uh two children attend or or to select colleges one of them not very successfully i'm not sure if i'm any authority on this topic at all
well a daughter uh went to the university of virginia that was a good selection she
yeah
really is
and she was she was very very happy there and and very successful in what she picked to do so uh she's just graduated from there
so that was a good selection uh our son has this kind of you know he's
well he started out going stephen f austin and that turned turned into you know [flunking] out because of of of uh too many parties going on
then he stayed out of school for a while
then he went to richland for a couple of years and then he went to to [depaul] in chicago which would have been great
but uh it was so expensive
so now he's
now he's back
well in in that case with him uh he kind of made the selections by himself
and i think that we should have given him more direction
and he was our first you know
so we we didn't have quite the insight that uh that we would have had if he'd been our second like we did with karen
so uh but i i think you know just in terms of of what happened i think that first of all i'd i would know the reputation of the school
and uh for more than just academics but you know if it's a party school or not
although i think every school is a party school to some degree personally
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
i've heard that from people who have gone to texas
yeah
i went to uh iowa state which is also a big eight school
like oklahoma
yeah
and uh when i was there
it was maybe eleven or twelve thousand people which was just a great size i thought it's it's
oh gosh
that's just awful
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yes
that that's true
it makes a lot of difference
and uh
uh_huh
you went to school there
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
oh yeah
yeah
well our daughter chose uh virginia because she didn't want to go to school in texas
i mean she just sort of didn't want to go to school here
uh_huh
yeah
same deal
yeah
and uh in fact she was accepted at two schools in texas uh rice and trinity
but she decided she wanted to go out of state
and uh virginia was uh you know in the east
it wasn't a you know it wasn't an ivy league school
but it was
well it's quite a bit further
and it was uh of the state schools that she could have gone to it was one of the cheapest yet
one of the best you know with the academics and the tradition and everything that is there uh she made a really good selection we thought
and so uh she pretty much made that herself
but she did have some others in the wings you know there's another school that she she would have have gone to if she hadn't been accepted there
so uh i don't know
i think it really depends a lot on the child because our daughter is was just a lot more [levelheaded] about her the process
yeah
so uh but you know i guess you have to really look at your finances
and uh texas has such a bargain in education
i mean
yeah
i know
i know
uh that's something
uh
oh wow
my gosh
that was a [shocker] no
i'll bet not
yeah
yeah
yeah
i know how that is you did pay yours
good
yeah
my husband went to school on loans too
and and we he was able you know we paid his off after we were married
but uh well i'm at the university of texas at dallas
and as a graduate student
and uh you know i have to say that uh it's a real bargain i mean for as far as i'm concerned it's been a real bargain of course you know living at home makes a lot of difference if i had to to pay room and board somewhere that would make a lot of difference
uh in
uh i think uh on a yearly basis
i'm trying to think i would just make it a rough figure of about uh with with the travel expenses and so on
although she didn't come home that much uh actually
i would say between twelve and thirteen thousand a year
it's not when you look at the you know the school and the fact that she was
uh no
on the lawn no
no
that's that's an honor that's [bestowed] on
very few
and she didn't get to do that
although she knew people who did live there
but yeah
that's that would have been neat
well you know the graduation takes place right there on the lawn on on that
in that big fat [grassy] area
and uh they had four thousand graduates this spring
and boy that was quite an event i'll tell you
oh yeah
yeah
that's a great place to visit
that really is
yeah
yeah
well they're just so it's just [steeped] in tradition
and and the uh you know they're they still talk about mister jefferson the you know i mean the [founder] of the school
of course was mister thomas jefferson and they
and and a lot of
right
uh_huh
and and a lot of the of his traditions i mean for instance they don't call the students freshmen sophomore junior senior they call them first year second year third year and fourth year because mister jefferson felt that one's education never ended and to you put those four [designations] of freshmen sophomore
and so on on the person's education limited them
and he felt that you could go on to school forever
you should just have the number of years that you were there attached to your name
if you want to do
identify someone so i had to be very careful about talking about seniors or fourth year students
you got to get the terminology right
yes
all righty
yes
it certainly is
i got to go make it here
well and kids in college
and how to help them
yes
and you've been through three of those
yeah
well i've been through once
so
how did you do it with your three
where were you living back then
okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i i think there's a lot of that when you go to a school with two thousand kids there
suddenly a college that's small seems i'm going backwards
so
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
well i think it was well a little bit of she narrowed it pretty rapidly to eliminate the real big ones texas and a and m
and then it kind of got to be a combination of what she thought she wanted to do
and uh the uh quality of the program
it it you know baylor was kind of always at the lead there for uh for some time
uh she looked at austin college
i think she applied at trinity
but she really wasn't applying at any of the state schools
um accounting
so it was a bit of of the major but not a whole lot
there's a lot of campuses have business majors
so that was not a big deal for her
but she just uh it was sort of her choice
and i think it was a little bit of
we visited there
and she visited some because her high school boyfriend's sister was there
so she had spent some time there
and felt pretty comfortable
she she looked at austin college
but i think again it was the the size aspect
it was just too small for somebody coming from
plano
unless you you really felt you needed something smaller
so it's
uh about uh eleven thousand
yeah
so it's uh it's sizeable but it's it's sort of in the not giant size
yeah
yeah
in the case of your kids that i i guess with jennifer it was more uh that she was making her own choice which i kind of feel is one of the keys if they're going to go do it
they better they better decide where with uh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
definitely
yeah
well it seems uh i don't know of a whole bunch of kids who uh really do what their father did there's some i think doctors may be a place where and i don't know quite why that sons often follow dad into the profession
and maybe that's some of it takes dad's pull to get an in and another folks can't get in as easily
but uh i don't have any kids who want to become engineers
uh so uh you just kind of live with it
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well that's the key to it
is that enjoying what you're doing
and uh you know i think the folks i see having more trouble picking colleges are
i got some friends who at [arco] there who uh well they're from back east and uh their kids are are looking in on some of those eastern private schools
when you start looking at the twenty to thirty thousand dollar price tag and you
start saying well do you really have to go there to get what you want
uh_huh
but they're from back east and they got a lot of relatives there
so it's uh some of them do that
yeah
yeah
i have
uh i went to western state college in [gunnison] colorado
what about you
oh okay
i personally would recommend the smaller colleges
just because you know you get a lot more individual attention
and you can go talk to your professor
and uh it's just more i think it is more conducive to studying especially if you are like a freshman
uh_huh
right
right
is that uh is that in the mountains
oh great
well that is the way that was what western state was too
yeah
i wouldn't trade it
i wish i could move back
i am tired of the big city
that's for sure
yeah
yeah
we are just uh out skirts of dallas
yeah
did you ski
right
oh yeah
definitely
no
i regret it too
i really want uh i would like to go this year we are suppose to go on a ski trip
but that is that is one thing i would recommend too
cause you know most college you go to a college and make what you uh can out of it
and when you get out you are you basically promote yourself
and and you try and network into a company or get a job or start a business or whatever
but uh you just can't trade that the time you know that you spend in the mountains you know if you fish and hunt and whatever and ski
you know i would never give up that
right
sure
right
right
yeah
yeah
they do
that is right
right
uh business administration
yeah
emphasize in finance
yeah
really
i am at uh a company by the name of e systems
we are a defense contractor down here
it's it's a pretty good company
yeah
i am a scheduling analyst
yeah
so
oh really
is there a lot of a lot of companies up there
uh_huh
okay  
so uh do you own a p c  
but you have one at work  
okay  
and now because um  
see i'm i'm doing my uh master's in computer science and computer engineering  
and um and i i don't have one  
but i have to use them   like during especially during my undergrad  
you you use um  
like your first couple of years you use personal computers because uh you know the software  
you know like it's easier for you to go to and run a program   you know through the disk   because um the grader can do it at home  
then as the you know as you go up higher like in your senior level you're doing projects which are are so big  
and you have to have so many people sharing the same data   that you can't use personal computers so you have to use you know a main frame  
oh okay  
but does it have uh like a disk drive  
oh okay  
because uh the ones that we use you know are like unix base systems  
and so they don't have a disk drive  
you know so you can't  
the only way that you can do it is through a modem  
and you you know you just do it that way  
but that's uh that's the only way that you can get to through to the system  
you can't store it anywhere  
oh okay  
and then you also have to do all your grading on the p c  
oh okay  
okay  
yeah  
well uh for us it's uh uh you know it's like for doing like you know like [resumes]   and presentations  
we use like for example a mackintosh which is a lot easier for graphics   than the than you know the i b m p c's or anything compatible with that  
due due to the fact that well you know i i haven't tested the the p s two yet  
but i don't know if the software is as easily you know like you can manage it a lot easier than than the old one  
the old one you had to go pick a line use little arrows to go onto the screen and check where you wanted to start and where   you know with the mouse you do it you know like a hundred times faster  
and uh you also get you know  
when you see it on the mackintosh with you know the one i have  
that doesn't have any color  
you can look at it  
and that's the way it's going to print out  
and especially if you have a laser printer it's going to print out the same way as it's on the screen  
and so with you know with the i b m what would happen is uh since the software that i had was it was basically you know you only see part of the page  
and so the whole page you you never can actually see it  
you just draw it  
and they have to [zoom] out and [zoom] in  
and you know it's like every time that you have to do something is it's really a pain  
and also you know it's like for for presentations  
it's like if you have to do any statistical data it can be easily represented on a on a p c  
it can be easily represented on a on a p c  
you know like years back when you didn't have that you would have to map out all this all these numbers  
and get a [graph] which you weren't sure if it was okay or not you know  
but with a with a new system i can calculate everything so fast   you know like for spread sheets  
you can see what the trend is over the years  
yeah  
that   that  
i i had a i had a program due  
and uh one one window i had the program  
and the other one i had the program running   so if there was ever a mistake i could easily check you know  
i could look at the program and say this is where i made the error  
instead of saying where did i make the error  
you know go back and forth  
and and you know you always you know  
the old ones you had to go out of your program load up um uh well load up the program again   in this case  
after you load it up change it hope that's right   get out of that run the program   run uh_huh as long as it took   and then go back and see if that worked or not  
but with windows you can have the program  
and say it messed up in line fifty four  
so you take a look at line fifty four  
you take a look at the output at the same time  
and you can see that where it messed up because you know it's like in the old computers the ones that uh we're using here a couple of years ago you would always have to have a printout   every time that you ran your program   you would need a printout because everything else was [erased] in the background  
did did you learn it in computer science  
and when was this  
oh okay  
yeah  
i know because uh all i know is that when i came here in eighty seven they still had uh   it was the last year to to put all your punch cards in  
so yeah  
no  
but it it was just sensational because i walked in  
and they go oh my god they're still using this  
it was like this is the last year you can put your punch cards in and get your program out  
and you know   you can get a hard copy of it  
and that's about it  
so but i mean the price of computers has gone down  
they said that um if the auto industry would have kept the same trend as the computer industry has ever since you know it started   they said that uh cars would cost two dollars  
and they would run forever  
so i mean it's like you know the the joke with the [yugo] you know  
it's like yeah you know like when your uh car runs out of gas just throw it away  
and that that's the way it would be  
it's like yeah i think i'll buy a new car today you know  
so  
yeah  
but i mean the price has really gone down  
i mean i b m which uh  
an i b m p c in like in nineteen eighty one it would cost you five thousand dollars  
and now you can get it you know like for one thousand dollars because you know because of the parts basically  
yeah  
the parts and the labor is what they're charging you  
they're not charging you you know over pricing   it because it's like if we sell it for less you know it's like we're losing money you know  
it's like we want to sell it to break even at least  
and i think they stopped producing the i b m p c  
and uh and the uh p c junior was a total failure   to them  
they had uh  
they're trying to get out small computers  
but the only problem was that when they took that one out the small computer was the i b m p c  
and so you couldn't you know  
it's like sure bring out into the market something that's smaller when nobody uses anything that's smaller than you know this you know  
and so  
but over the past years it's like i b m has been producing like  
every two years they bring out a whole new system   you know like the p c x t a t and the p s one p s two things you know  
and so it's just that you have to always compete  
and uh mackintosh took a lot of the market from a lot of schools  
because of of their you know  
you can work with it a lot easier  
so that's what they're trying to do  
oh well   i'll leave you back to your work  
and uh have a good lunch  
all right  
bye bye  
um no  
not personally  
but  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
several  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
i know i uh i do have a uh you know a computer at home  
but it's one that the company has loaned me  
and that that's been my situation is that uh that way i can get in access our uh computers that i have up here and you know do work from home  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
no  
i um i i have both because that that's what i use all the time is unix systems um versus the dos  
but then i teach dos classes uh at night  
uh_huh  
part time  
so  
well that that's the really neat thing i teach in the continuing education classes so i don't uh i don't have to have any grades no grade books so that's great  
but no  
i find that i use the the personal computer a lot though for my wordperfect   and also for my spread sheets  
um so i think it's extremely helpful and very useful  
uh_huh  
um um uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
um um uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
what a hassle  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
and i love all the windows that they have out now too  
they have really simplified things  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
i know i uh i remember my college days and having to do that too  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
i sure did  
uh i graduated in eighty six  
yeah  
so it's been fairly recent  
the cards  
oh oh dear  
i didn't have to bother with that at all thank goodness  
yeah  
yes  
wow  
wow  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
oh that would be great  
uh_huh  
wow  
oh sure  
oh sure  
right  
yeah  
and the two eighty six too  
so yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh   uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
well  
okay  
thanks  
bye  
okay um  
now the term personal computer uh  
i don't happen to have one at home um  
but i do have a personal computer on my desk here  
yeah  
uh yeah  
just kind of it's kind of a [kluge] that was [pieced] together to to uh shall we say [bypass] the formal [procurement] process  
and uh it it works just fine  
it says it's a [monochrome] monitor [panasonic] printer uh no big deal  
it it does the things i need for it to do  
no  
it's not even that  
uh i think that's about where it is  
uh yeah  
i do that  
i i do uh some lotus on it uh do some uh samna some uh p f m uh nothing extremely complex  
uh_huh  
yep  
oh yeah  
i bet that's a pretty nice setup  
yep  
wow  
yep  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well um i seem to always be in the the next to the last generation of word processing software  
when everyone was in samna i was still in p f m  
and now that i finally become proficient in samna everybody's going to wordperfect  
so i can never quite stay current with that  
uh_huh  
oh  
huh  
i can   i can believe that  
no  
not really  
i'm not that up be on that sort of thing  
oh okay  
oh okay  
okay  
oh well it sounds like you're pretty much into computers  
i can believe that  
well it's it's been interesting  
yeah  
of course needs and wants aren't necessarily the same thing  
i  
is is that the newest thing now the four eighty six  
that that must be a fairly recent release  
okay  
okay  
because i i had done capital packages for two eighty sixes and three eighty sixes  
but i didn't know they had a four eighty six just yet  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
i did too  
and you have a good day  
bye bye  
a type of work station  
is it a two eighty six or three eighty six base machine  
it's eighty eighty eight  
okay  
uh what type of uh [utilizations] do you make of it  
word processing obviously  
okay  
uh i use them both here at work and at home  
and i have i b m clones in both cases  
here at work i have the t i one thousand which is a three eighty six base machine  
yes  
it is  
uh unfortunately i need all of it  
uh for example i was messing around with a spreadsheet this weekend that's a third of a meg in beta size  
and that i know that uh brings an eighty eighty eight machine to it's knees because i had taken it over from a friend who was working on it  
and he had a two eighty six machine  
and it brought it to it's knees   just in the ability to handle  
and then i have uh a three eighty six f x a sixteen bit machine   at home  
and i'm really pleased with it  
it manages to take care of all my home needs in terms of word processing and spreadsheets and   uh [databases] [database] [searches]  
uh what i've gotten into more recently are the tools to use them  
have you  
to try to make them more effective and useful  
have you been uh struggling along those lines  
well i think you will be real pleased to get away from the banana as i used to call it  
it's uh  
i used it on uh some other machines in days gone by and was real pleased to leave it  
it was a real memory hog when you started making large [blot] changes to it  
the  
at least the version i had tended to keep copies of that   of what you were changing and [deleting] off in memory until all of all of a sudden you got a disc full error   not a fun thing to try to recover from  
very frustrating  
uh but again i've been dealing with large files both data and and otherwise  
uh that was a engineering [spec] on b two  
you come here with the b level of [specs]  
well it's just a huge file that tries to describe the requirements of what you're trying to build   uh to one level down from assistant description  
well i sure need them  
uh there's no way that i could begin to process and keep up with the kinds of information or the magnitude of information that i need to to try to do my job without them  
yes uh  
maybe you'll play around some and figure out how they can help you do different things  
i think that's when you you start deciding that you really need greater assets than you already have  
when you start seeing what all they can do for you  
well i understand that you know  
if needs and wants were the same i'd have a four eighty six machine at home  
right  
uh that's  
came out around the first of the year  
it does a few more things   uh than had been available before  
but i'm not sure that it's such a massive improvement uh you know  
once you get passed thirty three megahertz all help is kind of lost in the in the translation   because you no longer can think that fast anyway  
well okay  
i enjoyed our discussion  
you do the same  
bye  
well how about you  
do you use p c  
yeah  
you and me both  
huh_uh  
yeah  
and so i like the i b m p c personally  
but that's pretty much everything i've worked with  
and uh i've become so accustomed to it that uh it's second nature  
what do you use  
yeah  
oh huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh okay  
oh okay  
so we um we use it's an i b m p s two also  
and um you know every now and then the file gets so big that you know it moves slower than i'd like  
but i uh i do mainly graphic work on it   and uh a little bit of word processing and then lotus applications to it  
and uh i don't know  
i just i enjoy working with them  
there's so many capabilities out there  
i mean the things you can do are endless  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
we have one at home  
but i just don't find the time that i can use it  
yes  
huh_uh  
one of the reasons why i got mine was before i went on maternity leave  
they didn't know how they were going to do without me at work because i am pretty much the like you said the guru   in the office with the different programs and any trouble shooting that there is  
and um so they didn't know how it was going to work  
they knew they were going to have to get a modem so that we could in the [decks] machine so that we could in my home so that we could make it through this eight weeks or so  
but uh you know it's uh it's almost like we could become too dependent on them  
and oh i we use a lot of free lance  
and uh that's uh pretty much takes up a lot of our day so for as producing [transparencies] and things  
and um it  
uh compared to the way the things have upgraded   have uh really  
what's the word i'm looking for  
i'm just totally drawing a blank  
but uh the way things have changed over the years with the p c and the different programs is just great  
it's remarkable the things we can do now and compared to you know a few years   just the power  
i'm i'm trying to uh get an updated machine  
mine uh is just putting along  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
um now that's awful  
huh_uh  
okay  
oh okay  
right  
oh yes  
right  
the copy that you can with one of those as compared to one of those dot matrix printers  
yeah  
huh_uh  
um we're just trying to talk ours into getting a laser printer  
and uh it's just so  
the budget [restraints] and things like that it's makes it difficult  
and uh  
huh_uh  
oh huh_uh  
and we uh got a quote on some laser printers the other day at six hundred dollars  
yeah  
i don't remember what kind they were  
but uh we do a lot of [transparencies]  
sometimes the color would take too long to plot out  
so they just want black and white which see we can just run them through the laser printer real quick   because it will only take a minute to print one of those out and then run a [thermal] copy of it  
but uh it uh  
no  
huh_uh  
if it was a customer presentation then that would be different  
we would want to [razzle] [dazzle] a bit  
but uh it's uh  
yeah  
we have one in the office  
and if we want well in our area if we want to use it we have to you know like you said you had to change it put it on a disc   and carry it over to there and see if they're not using the printer  
right  
and uh wait for an opportunity to use it  
huh_uh  
i know  
i know  
i understand  
huh_uh  
oh huh_uh  
right  
so how are you supposed to expect to stay number one when you're behind the times in technology  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
right  
we find it hard to believe sometimes or hard to understand when uh we work for a computer company and uh how are we supposed to present the imagine that we're supposed to present with equipment that's outdated   that's obsolete  
and the guys that some of the guys that run this place are very tight  
and it's like well why do we need this  
can't you do that with you know what we have  
and when we try and then they complain about this doesn't look good  
oh constantly  
it seems everything i do is computer related  
and if it goes down then we're stuck all day  
huh_uh  
yeah  
well i have an i i b m p s two model thirty  
it's kind of kind of getting too slow for me  
but my job i'm an e d p auditor  
so i audit uh computer applications both on the personal computer and the mainframe level  
and i use my personal computer constantly  
not only do i do p c type things like uh using lotus or word processors  
i also use my p c to emulate a mainframe terminal for our i b m mainframe   and also to emulate a deck terminal for our deck machine  
so all i have on my desk is my p c  
but i'm i'm getting not only our local area network  
but i'm getting two separate mainframe machines also  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i've become kind of the p c guru in our audit department because it's mostly financial [auditors] with an accounting back ground  
and there's three of us e d p [auditors]  
and one of the three of us has an accounting background  
and so she's not real proficient in p c's  
and the other just has   not used p c's that much  
so i ended up taking on the load of making sure everybody knows what they're doing  
and i'm the administrator for our local area network  
and i need to keep that going  
and   so i i'm i couldn't live my life without a p c  
i don't have one at home  
yeah  
right now i would rather not have one at home because i would work at home  
um we've got a couple of portable lap top p c's at the office that i end up bringing one of them home a lot   to do work  
if i had a machine already installed at home i would probably work just about every night  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
and it's not fast enough for a new four eighty six chip  
but uh   i don't know if my boss will spring for it  
but i'm determined to brake mine  
so he has to get me another one  
we think about that a lot  
well that's what i do  
we had a printer a hewlett packard ready writer  
and we had about ten people sharing this printer  
by it was attached to like a central p c  
and you had to take your [diskette] to the p c to print something  
so the first thing when i started working at this bank is i said well now first of all we need to all be able to share this p c without getting up  
so i talked my boss into investing in a it's not a uh a uh real elaborate local area network  
but we can share the printer  
and we can uh send files to each other  
and we can mail send mail messages to each other   which is good enough  
it's what we need  
and then i talked them into buying a h p laser jet  
and that was a major [ordeal] to get him to buy it  
but once he bought it he has been so pleased  
it's it's fast  
it's quite  
oh it has good copy  
yeah  
i've got a little little uh i b m pro printer on my desk  
but and i can use either the pro printer  
or i've got my p c [configured] to where i can use either printer the one that's on the network or my own  
so if i just need something real quick and i don't feel like getting up and going and getting what i printed  
i can just print it in my office  
yeah  
they have gotten really cheap  
hewlett packard makes it's actually a dot matrix printer  
but the quality is almost laser quality  
and i think it's called the desk jet  
and they're you understand i think they're about five hundred dollars now  
oh really  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so that's all you need for like [charts] and stuff  
you don't need them in four colors  
yeah  
you use the system  
yeah  
yeah  
we you'd have to just sit and wait while someone else was using the printer  
until they got off the machine  
that was  
i was amazed when i came to work  
i worked at the uh  
well it used to be the largest bank in san antonio until n c n b came up and bought the rival  
and now n c n b   and now n c n [b's] got a little larger market share  
but it's the only uh  
well it's part of the bank holding company and that bank holding company of the ten largest banking holding companies in texas  
it's the only one that's still alive  
any way i work in a big [prestigious] place  
and i couldn't believe when i walked in the door on my first day and here's the audit department of this this huge holding company sharing a h p rugged writer  
i was going oh wait a minute  
come on guys  
this is crummy  
yeah  
yeah  
we're pushing real hard though  
we're we're trying  
well see the entire bank is not like that  
we  
the the bank philosophy is one of innovation and   lead the market  
it's just the audit department happened to be just a little behind the times because the uh the senior vice president over [audits] is cheap  
and it's real hard to [pry] money out of him to to do these things  
but i was i was able to convince him that it would be cost effective and that our board presentations would be much better  
and  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
unfortunately the the uh computer equipment and and related [peripherals] are changing and improving so rapidly  
like for instance we bought a  
hi  
how are you today  
good  
well as a matter of fact i'm before we started this conversation i was working on my p c at home  
do you have one  
yeah  
do you have  
we have an um  
actually it's a t i computer  
but it is the i b m   um clone  
it's not the t i p c   from back when  
right  
yeah  
that's what we have um  
well i really do  
i um am an accountant  
and   but i work at home  
so i use it for that quite often  
we have you know used some of it for some personal things  
we keep track of personal budgets and things like that on it  
i  
since it's tax season i'm doing a lot of taxes  
so i do a lot of um a lot of that work on it as well  
uh_huh  
oh it is  
yeah  
you can  
yes  
you can  
that's right  
we really  
we we didn't decide to get one until i started working at home  
then you know then we thought well we can use it for you know some personal things  
we  
for us it really took you know a business application   to justify the expense of it  
really  
right  
she could just as easily do those things by hand  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
right  
right  
and you know there's not going to be those adding mistakes that we all make  
right  
i i think in most cases i'd have to say no  
not unless somebody really enjoys it   or perhaps is using it for education  
i have a four year old son  
and we have some education programs that he likes  
a little sesame street one  
and we have another one that plays music  
and he really likes that one  
that's right  
and yeah  
on  
now i think about it  
i guess for for kids like as they get older  
especially now   when they get to junior high school high school and even college  
i mean my sister went to college started about three years ago  
and she had to have a a computer  
i mean it was like a necessity  
she couldn't imagine going through college without a computer  
right  
yeah  
any more i don't even know if they have if a college kid would have a typewriter  
probably not even  
no  
uh_huh  
well unfortunately in our family my husband and i went through college together  
and then he went on and got his master's degree while i was working  
and i'm the better typist   of us  
and we just had a regular old typewriter not even a correcting one back then  
it wasn't that long ago  
but   i typed his master's papers and things on a typewriter  
oh boy to have a computer back then  
at least  
i mean  
and then of course you have some changes to make and do the whole thing over  
you take out a sentence  
on a computer you take it out [bleep] print it out fine  
take out a sentence on a piece of paper  
right  
oh yeah  
the first time  
that's probably one of the problems and frustrations that it's brought about because people do feel like oh well we can just change it  
yeah  
use it as a just a  
right  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
i believe it  
uh_huh  
well it's good that she does that i mean bring it to people's attention  
right  
oh i have to  
especially when they're in school i think they would get a lot out of it  
uh_huh  
ooh  
ooh  
that still could add up  
yeah  
yeah  
you too  
have a nice day  
bye bye  
i'm great  
yeah  
no  
i don't have one at home  
i work with one on at work   continually you know  
but i do not have one of my own at home  
what do you have at home  
uh_huh  
right  
from the oldies but the goodies  
it's probably pretty close to what i have because i have the same kind of thing at work  
i have a three eighty six s x which is t i computer  
but everything in is in i b m mode  
so  
do you use it a lot at home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you're on it a lot  
uh_huh  
i was amazed when i took our taxes to our tax person  
and she works out of her home also  
and the uh software that does the taxes is just incredible  
you know i mean she just you know  
i expected to go and you know drop the stuff off and go back two weeks later  
and you know she had it done and out in twenty minutes on her little p c  
it was great  
that's wonderful  
i have often thought that that having one at home would be neat  
i just don't know if we would really use it that much you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh definitely  
definitely  
i know my stepfather bought my mother a little personal computer oh i guess probably three years ago for christmas  
and you know it's got some stuff on it  
it's got a nice little word processing software on it you know and some budgeting type things and stuff  
and i don't think she's ever touched it   you know  
it just it just seems like a lot of trouble for something at home  
you know she always seems to have better things to do than to try to sit down and figure out how to use her computer you know  
so  
yeah  
just as quickly  
now i know my boss has bought the software um that he can that his checkbook is on on   on a disk  
and he goes in and and types his checks on the screen and then hits print  
and they print out on the checks  
and he's ordered envelopes with the windows in the right places   you know  
and he just [whips] out you know  
i saw him yesterday morning over there  
and and he paid his monthly bills  
and he just you know wrote all the checks on the screen and hit print  
and it printed out like ten checks  
and he just you know  
they're [perforated]  
and he just ripped them off  
they go through just a continuous thing on the printer  
and he ripped them off and stuck them in the envelopes  
and there they went  
you know and he said you know i can balance my checkbook in seconds you know   because it's all in the computer you know  
so  
that's exactly why  
he said you know he said used to be i always sat looking for those you know  
he said this way there isn't any  
you know it does it for you  
so this you know  
there are some definitely some some advantages to it  
it's just a matter of like you say are the advantages does it justify the cost if you're using it strictly for personal business  
so  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
as he grows up he'll be even more and more too  
that'll be great  
uh_huh  
really  
well yeah  
i  
well i'm going through right now  
i'm you know going part time in the evenings  
and you know i do  
yeah  
everything has to be typed  
i mean they require it  
you have to type it   you know  
and and so i'm up here you know nights and weekends you know working on the little on the p c up here you know typing stuff  
so i can see where it would be a great advantage to have one at home you know if you were going to school  
well you  
i don't know  
no  
no  
and they probably used to have it  
i just finished a a major research paper a couple of weeks ago  
and i couldn't imagine not having that thing on a disk   where i could go back in and move stuff around and change it  
i i don't know what they used to do before they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh   and you had to type all of his papers  
oh gosh  
oh cut your time in half at least  
at least  
uh_huh  
you do the whole thing over  
that's right  
you know i remember when i was working in high school you know i was working in an office right after i got out of high school  
i continued working there for probably another year  
and we did everything on a typewriter   everything  
but it's amazing you know  
then when where you know someone would have you type a letter they did it right they did it right  
i mean they were  
yeah  
they sit there  
and they go is this really what i want to say  
and you typed it  
and that was it  
and now you know people just send it back over and over and over and over  
well we'll try this out and see what it looks like  
yeah  
yeah  
instead of knowing what they want to say   before they they just you know play with it and which in a way is nice to be able to do  
but you know it it gets a little out of hand sometimes  
i've seen it get out of hand up here you know   where we've got a secretary that sits over here that's keeping metrics right now and keeping up you know of all the letters i type how many how many of them do i make changes on and on each letter what types of changes  
are they [typos]  
are they because i couldn't read it  
or people just change a like one word because they think it sounds better or whatever  
and you know she's also keeping a percentage you know what percentage of letters am i [retyping] for whatever reason  
and there's like one week she did [retypes] on ninety percent of what she typed   you know  
and it's like you know it's ridiculous  
and that was that was the high week  
but it's running about seventy   which is still ridiculous to have to make changes to seventy percent of everything that she types  
well that's exactly right  
you know she keeps you know keeps several [weeks'] worth of data and then in addition is keeping copies of all the changes to show you know look this didn't really need to be changed  
you know this is ridiculous and you know changing add this time to now  
you know i mean that's the kind of things you know that she's keeping and showing that this was a big waste of time it was a waste of paper it was a waste you know   to change something like that  
so anyway maybe you know maybe it'll it'll help in some way  
but i don't know  
there there definitely even with the few disadvantages like that are far better than the alternative  
without a doubt  
without a doubt  
well i would like to get one at home some day  
we've got a two year old son  
and so you know some day i would like to get even just like the video tell or something like that you know just to to be able to pull in sources from outside would be wonderful  
you know so  
oh i do too  
i do too  
the on line [encyclopedia] just sounds wonderful  
you know that sounds like such a great idea  
you know it'd be kind of fun to be able to play with it  
so i know my father had a p c  
and when we were in high school it was always fun  
we could um link in  
and i don't even remember now what it was called  
but you could link in and talk to other talk to people all over the country you know  
and like you have your own little code name you know  
and you'd type in du du du hi how are you du du du  
and they'd type back and everybody  
and you'd have five or six or seven people talking to each other at the same time  
and everything everybody said prints out on your screen as they're typing it  
and it was just great fun you know  
it was very expensive because the whole time you were on there you were on long distance you know  
it was like a   long distance phone call  
so we were each limited to like twenty minutes a day you know  
so  
oh it added up big  
well you know we my parents were divorced  
and so the time we were like visiting our father in the summer time you know  
so he felt like he could splurge and let us do it  
i'm sure we would not have been allowed to do that under normal situations you know  
but when you're doing the guilty father complex you know because he's not there to watch us grow   you can kind of get all kinds of stuff  
that's sad  
well it was nice to talk to you  
have a  
you too  
bye  
well do you own a p c  
oh wow  
what processor does it have in it  
oh what kind of work do you do on it  
oh okay  
yeah  
huh yeah  
i don't own a p c  
but i've i've yeah i work for t i  
and uh  
well i have uh pretty a fairly fancy one  
it's a t i model  
it's an s p one thousand which has a it has a fast processor in it a three eighty six  
and i  
the the job that i do  
i do a lot of training of our customers for new products  
and i have to develop uh functional [specs] and disk and desk top publishing and everything  
so it's   it's kind of fun  
i mean i i always say that i need to buy a computer for the house  
but i just haven't got around to doing it yet  
your husband what what group is your husband in  
oh  
defense systems and electronics group  
i see  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
i work on uh printers and   the peripheral products division basically uh  
i work in the airline marketing group  
so we we do a lot of  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is he a programmer  
i see  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
really  
so uh does your husband ever use uh a laptop or a notebook  
does he bring a little one home with him  
or  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
yeah  
we we build uh laptop and notebook computers here in temple also  
and those are really handy  
i mean we they they have [modems] in them you can send a fax from your p c  
but they're they're really  
what's that  
yeah  
they're they're pretty handy because you know when i travel it's easy to check messages  
just you know   plug in the phone to your computer and dial in  
and  
oh okay  
yeah  
i just found out i'm going to denver sunday night again  
so that kind of reeks [havoc] with plans  
but it it's really not enough to become a big hassle  
i see  
well i don't know  
there you can get well  
depends on what you consider expensive  
i mean  
you can get real high powered stuff now for under two thousand dollars where you know just a few years ago it would have been six seven eight nine thousand dollars  
yeah  
it's still i mean  
you know two thousand dollars isn't just just pocket change to a lot of people  
yeah  
when i started at uh t i i was a summer development student   and finishing up at school  
and so those papers really  
i mean it was nice having access to the   equipment to uh  
yeah  
well how many different types of packages do you use  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
yeah  
golly  
i've got  
up up at work anyway i use wordperfect and lotus and   and which is uh uh a a line draw package  
yeah  
you probably use or something like that   for your uh data entry stuff that your   talking about  
do you get do you work at home all the time  
or just  
uh_huh  
oh that that was that worked out pretty good then  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so it keeps you in the company huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
boy  
i tell you if i could bring a computer home and do stuff here i'd get all kinds of stuff done  
[phone's] always ringing  
and   people always asking me to do something else  
i've got a lot of  
especially right now we've got several new products coming out  
and i've got lots of documentation i need to review and some i need to [revise]  
well yeah  
but you know i need to be at the office too  
you know i've just got to deal with all those other things that happen  
but   a p c at the house would really take a lot of the load off  
uh_huh  
well i've i've done that before on a couple times  
but that would make it just that much easier  
instead of bringing home a computer you just bring home a few floppy disks you know  
oh my  
man that sounds really nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i've got a lot of folks that i've worked with like that as well  
yeah  
we sort of stayed to the topic anyway  
okay  
well we'll talk to you later  
bye  
no  
i don't  
i have one at uh  
the company i work for [furnishes]  
so i can work at home  
and it's just an old old compact that is super slow  
and but it does it does it's job  
so  
um i don't know  
it's so old  
it's one of  
um i do um television ratings  
and i process some ratings and put do graphics for their television stations   their clients  
so  
it's basically just data entry and running you know some some software  
so it doesn't really have to be anything sophisticated you know  
yeah  
my husband does too  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i'd like to have one for the house too  
but sometimes my husband my husband says usually i work on the computer all day at work  
i don't want to come home and have to work on one too  
um something with the defense  
huh  
yeah  
something like that  
yeah  
they've changed their name so many times i've lost track  
so  
he works up in plano  
so  
uh_huh  
oh  
i didn't even know they had anything like that  
man  
there's so  
they're  
i learned so many things that they they do  
they're into so many different things  
so  
yeah  
i just kind of  
in for a while you know  
he had a he had uh one of those what are they top secret things   you know where he couldn't talk about what he did so   for a while  
but then he switched jobs  
i don't understand half the stuff he does  
and i have uh  
uh_huh  
software design engineer so as they call it  
so  
but i have a degree in information management   which is computer you know  
it's basically the more the business end of it than the programming end of it you know  
so but i've been at it for you know five years  
so everything's changed so much i probably couldn't even get a job right now  
it seems like it's changed so much  
so you know they've made such advances in computers  
so  
no  
huh_uh  
sometimes he he brought home a uh a portable one  
but uh it it quit working  
so he brought it brought it back  
and he just hasn't brought another one home  
but they did give him a new computer at work  
so  
oh uh_huh  
oh how nice  
no  
he doesn't have one of those  
so  
he doesn't have one of those  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well my husband doesn't have to travel  
so  
oh boy  
well at least you get to  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
some people enjoy the travel  
but i don't think i'd like it if he traveled a lot  
yeah  
i would love to have a computer  
they  
but they're so expensive  
uh_huh  
yeah you know  
i guess it's not it's all you know it's inexpensive compared to what it used to be  
but it's a lot to put into one  
that's right  
no  
it's not  
it's it's not pocket change  
so it's major  
maybe when the kids get in school that will be you know  
when they start needing something you know then that will be different  
but  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yes  
i remember that  
i had to do some of my husband's papers because i had access to one  
but you know he his was more for scientific stuff than for word processing you know  
so  
i did a lot of his papers  
yeah  
they come in real handy  
that was a [lifesaver]  
at home  
um all i  
the packages i i don't really use  
i what i use that outside development that we use most of it's just stuff that's been written in house that i use  
yeah  
i know those two  
uh_huh  
i've just used wordperfect and lotus and the most  
yeah  
yeah  
a lot of the data entry stuff they used uh survey system and and um you know just in house programs to do what they needed  
i work  
well no  
i worked for this company before i had my first daughter  
and they just wanted me to continue working for them at home doing other things  
so  
yeah  
it did  
you know i don't do i don't really don't do basic a lot of what i used to do  
i just do you know something really minor  
but   it's something that nobody else wants to do  
and it's time consuming  
so  
that's right you know  
it gives me a paycheck you know  
it's only like the works only you know three weeks  
goes for like three to four weeks three times a year  
you know it's not something that's continual because you know the television ratings don't come out you know all the time  
they only come out four times a year  
so but  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
will they let you take a computer home to work  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i bet  
yeah  
my he took one home when they when they had it you know they had a big [deadline] coming up  
and it was looking a little touchy to meet  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
i thought that would be you know  
because it's real nice with this because i don't even have to go into the office  
i've maybe been into the office once in the past three years you know  
they just um they just send me everything and pick it up courier or whatever  
so you know  
yeah  
it is real nice you know  
i just deal with them on the telephone  
half the people don't even know who they're talking to  
but i you know worked  
i know most of them well  
i can't say that  
a lot of people changed around there  
but most people know who i am  
but i don't know who they are you know  
a lot of them just know me by name and phone voice  
yeah  
you just know them by the telephone  
so but well it's been good talking to you  
i think we've got the subject  
yeah  
we tried  
it's hard to sometimes  
okay well thanks  
bye bye  
um so do you have a personal computer  
oh  
yeah  
that's what  
when this subject was mentioned to us i said well  
i went gee that's all i use mine for is a word processor  
and i haven't used it since i got out of college  
and that was six years ago  
but it it was my sister's who  
my sister bought it  
and uh my father had a small business  
and she thought that he would incorporate it and use it in the business  
and he never did  
he always did everything out by hand  
he only had three employees  
so you know it wasn't really worth it to him to do to do it  
yeah  
like pay the payroll  
and  
yeah  
basically payroll  
yeah  
um it's an i b m  
i think it's a professional three hundred  
no  
that's that's the digital one  
it's an uh i b m p c junior i think  
yeah  
she she uh she uses it now uh my sister to  
actually she moved  
and my father wasn't using it   she took it with her   because she needed it to do  
she just finished up her bachelor's degree  
so i don't know if she's going to even use it anymore  
it it's  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's that's neat  
that's   a very good use  
yeah  
well i know there there's got to be a lot of uses  
but it's just you have   to have a need  
yeah  
but you have to have a need  
i really have no need for it at all  
um i work for digital equipment  
and we have a powerful computer down at work  
no  
and i   i still really don't do that much as you say play games on it  
they're great for playing games  
my brother  
yeah  
i know some people who just  
they just went through a course uh and took the electronic [grafting] course   drafting not [grafting]   but drafting course  
the c a d  
yeah  
and that's really neat  
i mean yeah  
you can do graphs graphs on it too  
but this is you know this is one step above it  
but it's actual um drafting  
and i always  
yeah  
and the computer does it all for you  
so it was really neat  
i wanted to go to that course  
but my boss wouldn't pay for it  
i'm like i'll get a job some day and my boss will pay for it  
i'll be needed  
because um i i i didn't want to go do it myself  
because i didn't think i was really going to use it  
i got this [cough]  
i've got a cold because it was eighty degrees up here and i went outside with no coat on  
yeah  
it was bad  
yes  
it was a big change  
you couldn't really wear a coat because it was so hot  
and then again i picked up a cold  
but i'm doing all right getting over it  
so i don't i don't even know how much um personal computers cost nowadays  
yeah  
they can't do your um   your drafting and your graphs   and all of that  
yeah  
you do run   you do run into limitations on yours  
oh wow  
yeah  
wow that's neat that you you even reach the limits of yours  
i haven't even begun to reach the limits  
junior  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they   say that commodore has made a good um p c for the price though  
very competitive  
i don't even i don't even know much money my sister spent on hers  
but i i just thought i it's it's going to be a waste  
she's not going to do it   not going to use it  
oh well  
yeah  
well she likes it  
she gets to write her reports  
but like i say   she could have bought a much cheaper model and done what she wanted  
yeah  
a typewriter with memory would would have been fine  
it's all she uses it for  
um i think it might have a spelling editor on it  
i'm not sure  
um   yeah  
yeah  
that's one of the one great thing about it  
um no  
i i really don't  
it's it was six years ago  
she pretty much set it up  
she goes here this is you make your file and then you can uh edit it  
right  
um i used the one the one at work a lot um  
matter of fact anything i've had to write from now on i had to  
god forbid  
write a couple of [resumes]  
and i was just great  
and all you have to do is just put it in a uh the spelling check mode  
and i don't even have to look my my words up anymore  
oh  
okay  
good  
okay  
yeah  
well bye  
uh well we do have one in in our home uh  
it's on the [fritz] right now because the monitor isn't working properly  
but uh it has been uh used tremendously mostly by my children for uh playing games  
however um you know the [bane] of our existence these days  
uh but it does have a word processing program which all of us have used for reports and papers and that sort of thing  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
actually it would be worth it if he were able to get a program that would do something that he normally had to do by hand  
exactly  
and there are   lots of them on the market  
but you do have to research that find out what works for your system  
what kind do you have  
oh well that's a nice computer  
uh_huh  
so she took it with her  
yeah  
don't blame her  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh well well encourage her to try other things  
because um i am uh  
i work in a school system  
and i teach writing  
and we use the computers a great deal for word processing you know because students really do seem to be freer when they write on the computer as you probably found out yourself  
but um i also am [sponsoring] a literary magazine  
and we're doing our entire [layout] on the computer uh because of the graphics program and a page maker program that we have   a publishing program  
so it is wonderful  
once you get into some of the programs that are out now you can do so much with them   that you don't do until you really make yourself use them  
you have to make yourself do it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
so you don't need a personal one  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well my son is uh studying electronic technology  
and he's been able to do things on uh on the personal computer here that really have [enhanced] his um reports and his learning and all because he can lay things out that way  
um and i guess it  
if you're doing that sort of thing it's really useful  
but um unless it is i guess it's kind of a waste  
oh that's   fascinating  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i knew what you meant  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
you can do wonderful design  
it it's really  
well especially when anyone who's ever done any kind of drafting or engineering uh drawing um  
you have to be so precise  
yeah  
oh well  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh boy  
what a change huh  
yeah  
right  
well that's good  
well they vary tremendously  
um because you can get  
because you're they're uh  
the ones that were made a few years ago uh have come down in price significantly um  
you can get them i've seen them for five and six hundred dollars  
but they're much less um have much less memory and capable   of much less  
no  
you can't do very much on them  
right  
right  
um well it's just that you have to have uh you have to be able to get your program in  
and and   many of the programs are so big uh  
they take up so much space that you don't have any place then to work  
you don't have any   [bytes] left  
but um if you um if if you want to go into one that's really useful you're going to have to go over a thousand dollars  
and even for a personal computer it's probably smart to spend that much  
and we've  
ours is not quite that powerful  
and so you know we are we are limited   which may be one reason why  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
some things we can't do  
but but then we haven't needed to either   you know um  
but we've been able to do what we can  
no  
but i  
mine is not as good as a p c uh   uh junior  
yeah  
yeah  
ours is a commodore one twenty eight  
and it it's not quite as um as useful not quite as powerful  
so  
they did  
yeah  
that's very true  
that's very true  
they did  
sounds like he that you were right  
yeah  
and she could have bought a typewriter also  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it  
yeah  
it  
if if it doesn't she could easily put it on  
yeah  
right  
right  
which program did you use  
did you use word perfect  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're great  
you're right  
well   i guess we've spent our time  
i need to go help my daughter do something  
so   this has been fun talking to you  
good luck  
uh bye bye  
so i own a a p c a t at my home  
well that's actually a good question  
my wife works out of the home our home  
she has an office  
and in fact she sits in the office  
and she uses it to [compose] and print out letters  
so that's a very regular use of it that she has  
and in addition to that i tinker around with it  
i'm a computer scientist  
and so i write programs to do little things  
i'm actually working on a data base at home just to keep track of things nothing special  
and also i'm interested in writing some programs that will kind of like remind me of things like remind me that wednesdays is trash day and the like  
uh_huh  
oh that's a key thing  
well actually that's a  
there's really two issues to that that there's so many software packages available today   that just require no programming  
so that  
in other words when someone built that software [packet] they had to use the programming  
but if they were careful they could make the use of it totally without understanding how the computer works  
but i think you you really hit the nail on the head  
for the average person is exactly what he can use it for  
and if your wife isn't working out of the home and sending letters  
or if you don't want to build a data base to keep track of the nuts and bolts in your garage  
whatever  
there your issue is then there really  
oh i see  
well  
i see  
well congratulations on that  
yeah  
well actually one other thing i might ought to mention is that they are actually getting quite cheap  
uh_huh  
right  
oh the calculators you mean  
yeah  
they sure do  
yeah  
i actually was thinking about upgrading mine very recently and kind of look at the whole spectrum  
you can actually buy a whole brand new computer with a not not a necessarily a slow one or inadequate one but a pretty good one for six hundred dollars  
no  
well actually i wasn't including a printer  
but you you can buy a printer now for a hundred dollars  
so make it seven hundred  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the prices had [plummeted]  
you can buy the computer the guts just the guts with the power supply   the box and the mother board of a type of computer called an eighty eighty eight for about two hundred dollars  
and then the keyboard is another fifty  
the monitor with the card that drives is another hundred  
and then the disk drive is two fifty  
well that's that's the deal is you're not buying brands now  
you're buying these knock offs  
so there's  
probably the way to do it if you really wanted to buy one is there's a magazine called computer shopper  
it's a big magazine  
it's twelve inches narrow the narrow side and   seventeen inches the tall side  
and it's probably an inch thick a thousand pages  
but the book is the magazine is full of these mail order computer mail order houses  
and they're all competing with each  
so you just flip through there until you find a eighty eighty eight computer  
that that's called it's the original p c  
so it's  
we call the t i i'm sorry an i b m p c compatible  
and you'll find all these things and you'll find the monitors forty dollars and the card that drives the monitor that goes in the back of the board for twenty five dollars which is amazing to me  
and you mix and match  
and then you do it by mail order  
but there's no real brands  
it's probably a half a dozen companies around the world that are making those mother boards the main computer the circuit board  
they're available in you know the b [daltons] that that type of thing  
you'll notice that in that it's it's a it's a although it's a magazine it's large  
and like i said it's about an inch thick  
that's right  
there's great  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's great  
yeah  
i understand  
that's great  
that's a good joke  
i did for years  
and then i was a scientist over in central research labs  
and just recently i've changed my job to actually do some of the marketing  
uh now i i type that one  
but i don't use it anymore  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
i agree  
oh yeah  
oh i see  
that's fascinating  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
yeah  
they certainly are  
so let's see see  
so i guess with respect to the question  
yeah  
i guess we've kind of covered it  
great  
nice little conversation with you jack  
good day  
thank you  
same to you  
uh_huh  
i could never justify owning a personal computer at home uh  
i mean that's quite an expense to look for uh  
well who is this  
what do you use yours at home for  
okay  
well now  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh-huh well excuse me i uh uh well i'm a technician electronics tech  
years ago t i sent me to their uh computer school down in austin  
so uh i learned to repair one  
but you know i never really learned to operate one  
yes  
uh_huh  
well uh space is a handicap with me  
i live in a motor home  
and i'm preparing for retirement  
and i'm not to far from it another year and a half  
yes  
definitely  
but just like the computers  
uh remember how they started out running three four hundred dollars  
i mean calculators  
i beg your pardon  
you're kidding  
including a printer  
a hundred  
[wholly] smoke  
a respectable one  
well see of not being particularly interested i don't keep track of prices on them  
but i'm i'm that does [amaze] me  
uh_huh  
huh  
well what what is a a good brand a inexpensive  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
uh  
i see  
how do you go about getting one of those a catalogs  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well getting back to the p c  
i'll tell you  
i ya  
first of all i don't like a machine that's smarter than me  
and secondly i did learn this much about computers  
they they are pretty stupid because they add one and one up and come up with ten  
in binary  
well anyway that's one ever my favorite jokes  
one and one equals ten  
course it's it's kind of an inside joke you know  
you can only tell that to somebody who understands binary  
so what  
do you uh uh work with a computers a at t i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i just recently started using one   in connection with my work  
uh i keep track of an inventory here  
and of course now that is where a computer is very handy  
and well i it's my responsibility to see that equipment is sent off to be [calibrated]  
see i'm with the q r a lab   qualification and evaluation  
so naturally our equipment has to be in top condition and is constantly [calibrated]  
and they're dated  
so i have to keep up with them uh  
and and it's very handy doing it on the computer  
i just run a printout every week  
and and it puts me right up to date what i'm what i have to do what i have to ship what i should be expecting to be returned  
so a  
it it is handy  
and i must admit that up until i did start using one uh it was i had very little interest in computers  
but they are amazing  
i think we did  
yeah  
mike you take care now  
good luck to you  
so p c personal computers  
do you have a personal computer  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i work with them at kelly services doing uh data entry  
uh_huh  
what do you what do you think about them  
you mean instead of people  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
and you really have to be able to type pretty fast before you know before it really saves time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to set up the boundaries correctly and   how many lines you're going to use in an  
uh_huh  
can't you can't you put   can't you put it on a disk and then just edit it if you need to when you go back  
right  
uh_huh  
and   and um  
rewrite the whole thing  
how does the word wrap work on that  
do you end up with very different length lines  
um  
and it [divides] the words by itself  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
they space it out in in the line itself  
oh  
they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you think it's a lack of training  
or it's just that they don't use the materials that are available to them  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
it's better to learn it directly from the manual  
especially when you have to trouble shoot some things  
because a lot of the times the computer the program still has uh bugs in it  
and you have to work around it  
have you worked mostly on i b m  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's   that's all i've seen in offices is i b m  
right  
well do you think it's been five minutes yet  
or  
oh okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
thank you  
bye bye  
no  
i don't not at home  
i work with them quite a bit though  
oh okay  
well i think they're useful  
i think they're in some instances they're they're over used  
well that's not the right way to say it  
well i think that uh some some work places where i've been they they set up  
like every body has their own p c   which a lot of times everybody doesn't need a p c  
and it really  
without them knowing how to use it properly it [slows] them down more than it helps them accomplish something  
they spend more time messing with the p c than they would actually [accomplishing] the tasks that they're trying to do if they didn't have a p c at all  
uh_huh  
that's true  
and you have to you know be familiar with it  
like there're so many different software packages it you have to be familiar with the one that you're going to be using most  
a lot of times uh people know about half of the capabilities of a package that they should know to actually be able to use it properly  
and so they waste more time with their trying to uh figure out how to do you know other things than they would if they if they actually understood what they were trying to do  
you know like uh they want to to format a report a certain way  
and if they really understood the capabilities of the package they could they could do that in about you know half the time that they spend trying to figure out how to do it without spending the time to learn the package properly  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
a lot of times they they they do it manually on the computer which just really is a waste of time  
and then if they ever have to change anything in that in that in the document they have to go back and redo it all manually whereas if they had learned the package properly to start with and had set it up correctly the package would do that for them   whenever they wanted to make a change  
so i i've seen that as a problem  
right  
but in some in some cases the with the [formatting] what i'm talking about is that they would set up they set up a certain document  
and it may be eight pages long  
and they set it up manually so that they have all their [spacings] and [formattings] and tabs set manually  
and um   then when they have to make a change say they want to [insert] a paragraph they got to go through the document and [reset] all the page breaks manually   and rewrite the whole thing instead of having the  
if if they had set up the [formatting] on the system itself it would do that for them and save them a lot of time  
but a lot of people don't spend the time to learn the package  
oh no  
no  
you can left and right justify the whole thing  
it comes out just perfectly spaced like a block  
it'll it'll automatically  
it's like [typesetting]  
it'll automatically do that for you  
usually it doesn't divide words  
they usually have it space the words in a line rather than divide a word  
so you see like in a newspaper they [typeset]  
they don't usually break words in a newspaper  
if the if one line is going to be a lot shorter than another line they just add spaces to that line to make it look long as the rest of the lines  
right  
and most computers do that  
most most software packages will do that for you  
i've i've known people that have used a package for for five years you know  
and i would say well have you you know you know more about this package than i do  
how do you left justify  
and they would say i don't know  
and it would take me maybe two or three minutes looking in the manual to figure out what command it was that caused this to happen  
and they would say how did you do that  
and i'm like well it's really easy  
and they were like well i never knew that  
so obviously they'd never considered looking it up you know  
sometimes it's  
sometimes  
well it's a number of different things  
sometimes they don't uh they don't think that they can get any information out of the manual  
some manuals aren't really designed very well  
but some of them   are  
and more and more of them are coming out written in a way that it that just a basic general user can understand them  
so i think um people think it's going to take them a lot longer to learn it properly than it really would  
and so they're really wasting time rather than saving themselves time because they think well it's quicker just to do it myself   when it's really not  
well i think so  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
with p c they're either i b m or i b m compatible mostly  
that is the you know the industry standard  
uh_huh  
there's a lot of really good i b m [compatibles] too  
they don't have to necessarily be the i b m brand  
but they have to [adhere] to that industry standard  
oh probably  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
uh do you own a p c by the way  
i'm guessing you probably do  
oh  
i see  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and what kinds of things do you use it for when you when you go to their houses to them  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
great  
yeah  
oh sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i tell you once you get used to having them you you get spoiled really quickly  
uh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
um i i'm a a writer by profession  
and uh when when i was first here in in dallas or in plano um and was finally able to this is oh been like fourteen years ago we moved here and i was finally able to afford a new typewriter and i got an i b m [selectric] i thought i had died and gone to heaven because   i thought oh they're so wonderful  
well then um  
yeah  
ours really needs to have some work done on it  
but but then my husband um worked at t i  
and i got a um this has been years ago he doesn't work there anymore but he got a um uh the the t i professional and brought that home  
and i learned wordstar on that  
and boy once that happened there was just no way that i could ever go back to doing anything of length of the typewriter  
uh_huh  
yeah  
have you ever used do you use wordperfect ever have you ever used wordperfect  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's probably where you've used it  
uh_huh  
yeah um  
i have that on my uh computer here  
and also um i do some work at u t d  
and uh that's what they have there  
and it was just so nice to be able just to step into the position and and already know the you know already know the the software  
and um i don't know from my own experience um  
wordperfect is just so much better than than wordstar at least the version of wordstar that i used to have  
it may be improved by now  
but  
yeah  
it's uh wordstar was never very [intuitive] to me  
i mean you know you  
some of the commands just had nothing to do with you know what you were supposed to be doing what they what they did on the computer  
but uh  
i mean like going um forward and backward a word or up and down a line that sort of thing just you know didn't match with the kinds of keys   you were using  
yeah  
and but wordperfect is just a lot more [intuitive] in a lot of ways  
and you and it does a lot of things too that if you if you do any kind of uh research or anything like that where you have to uh use [footnotes] it is just wonderful   because it keeps track of all your [footnotes]  
yeah  
and if you add it if you put a [footnote] in in the middle you know if you come up with some new piece of documentation and you put that in the middle of your paper and have to [footnote] it you just change um it just automatically changes all your [footnoting] numbers for you  
so you know it's just  
yeah  
yeah  
and i think about how it used to be if you were doing a paper and you had to go back and [retype] everything  
and oh it was just awful  
so um i don't know i think we have just become really spoiled  
but i think   it's a nice kind of way to be spoiled  
so um well i have not really paid much attention because i  
clock  
although i think we've probably been talking at least ten minutes  
so um if you um unless you have some other things you want to talk about as having to do with p c  
well um i was a technical writer for many years um  
and my husband and i actually met in a computer company  
um i was a tech writer  
and he was an engineer and uh so i did tech writing for a number of years  
oh sure  
got a problem huh  
um  
oh trying to figure out what all that was about huh  
but um i have  
um that that was the majority of my writing although um i have also done oh free lance magazine writing and some educational writing  
and um for a while i had a um uh a [partnership] with a in an advertising agency with another woman who is a an artist  
so i did some advertising and p r  
but  
um now i'm actually i'm i'm not working anymore  
i'm a student i'm a graduate student  
so i'm doing a lot of writing  
but uh now all of the [scholastic] majors though  
i've done a little a lot of different kinds  
but i i just know right now that i couldn't have put out half of what i did if that much without the being in computers  
so that's been really great  
and uh i'm so i'm real spoiled  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
good  
that's great  
yeah  
well those are skills that she certainly is going to need early on  
and you know the   and it seems like it's getting earlier and earlier with the children  
so   um i think that that would be a real a real uh advantage to to her to have that and uh   do it early  
so uh do  
oh neat  
yes  
right  
oh great  
right  
that's great  
well that's a that's a skill that she can use for the rest of her life  
so   might as well start now huh  
well nola i have enjoyed talking with you thoroughly  
this is really going to be fun i think  
and um my husband is a ham radio operator  
and i think about all the people that he talks to all over the  
i don't have one in my home here  
my um parents have one  
and they live just about three miles away  
so we use that one  
and my in laws also have one  
and they're almost as close  
they're in richardson  
um usually uh word processing something um such as oh forms for things uh  
also i have a nine year old that i've been home schooling for the last three years  
and we got  
uh the one that my parents have is an apple two e  
and i have a sister in law who is who works in the fort worth school district  
and so she got me copies of uh several of the apple programs   for school programs  
and so we use those  
and there's some  
whenever we go over and visit grandma the kids love to play the computer game  
so   that's part of it  
um my husband has used the one at his folks house for mostly business things   uh his resume his uh letter  
he's been applying for jobs and things   so that type of thing uh forms for his photography business   and that kind of thing  
yeah  
i'm uh  
my father had a software company  
and they have a bunch of computers leftover from that  
and we're hoping that they can put together something for us here that we can have the word processing   here  
but um they're kind of old   older  
so i'm not sure that we'll be able to do get too many other programs for it  
oh  
i have one of those  
yeah  
mines broke at the moment  
but  
oh  
yeah  
i learned i i learned wordstar uh  
i did some typing for my father when he had the company  
and so i learned that on there too  
that was  
i haven't  
that's the one that my father  
well i guess i have used it once or twice  
uh it's the one that's on my father in law's computer  
he's got on i b m  
and uh so that's the program that they're using there  
that's what i've heard  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you had to   memorize it  
and  
oh  
oh that's neat  
oh how wonderful  
that i had heard that that was better   that was a better one  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
not too much  
what kind of what kind of things do you write  
oh  
go talk to daddy about it  
excuse me  
go on and talk to daddy about it  
tell daddy i [unplugged] it for you  
but you don't need to drag it down the hall  
daddy daddy came home and found her playing with the telephone that i had [unplugged]  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm anxious some day to have one here  
i'm  
and they just talked to the other day other day about setting something up again  
so   hopefully pretty soon we'll at least have the word processing  
my nine year old i've decided to teach her how to type   using the computer  
so  
yeah  
i've  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we've been we've been uh writing a story together  
and so i and i wanted her to put it into the computer   and then print it out and   make a book with it you know  
and so i decided well if she's going to do that it would be a whole lot easier if she could type  
so we'll slowly learn just to type here and then   then put the story in  
yes  
yes  
i agree  
yeah  
so do you have p c  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um well i sort of own a computer  
we have two p c at home  
but neither one do we really own um  
no  
both of them are sort of work related  
and  
yeah  
that's the nicer way right  
no  
no  
um i actually i'm doing consulting right now because i just had a baby  
and my husband's working at bell labs  
but he's really from france  
and these computers actually are from france  
one of them's a [compaq]  
it's a three eighty six  
and the other is actually a i b m p c compatible  
it's a three eighty six  
i guess it's twenty five  
yeah  
three eight six twenty five c maybe  
i don't know  
no we don't have the  
we decided not to get the which is actually another [loaner] one too that we picked up for a consulting job that my husband was doing  
and  
um well i actually do some work working at m i t and at [nist] national institute of standards and technology   in washington  
and then i worked for dragon systems for a while  
um well it depends  
it's very different in the different places  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
program related research related  
and i work in the speech field  
and i do a lot [metacoustic] [phonetics] and   looking at the [acoustic] characteristics of speech  
and i do that type of stuff typically for other people  
and we like here we use the p c to do that  
mostly i use it for writing papers and things like that  
well more uh  
do you know [latek]     word text processing  
so i don't i don't use i mean  
you can call it word processing  
but i don't usually use a word processor to do it  
and we don't have too much standard software  
like i haven't bought we haven't really bought any commercially available software at all  
so we don't use it for things like our accounts and addresses and things like that  
we use it more for just writing programs when we need to or um doing research looking at the speech signal and then doing writing and also as a just as a terminal  
and we connect to other computers to read our net mail and things like that  
uh neither one has a modem  
but we have a modem  
neither one  
right  
yeah  
we have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so that was it  
oh i didn't hear it  
do you hear the the beep in the background  
oh that's a an ambulance or something going on here i think  
i haven't ever noticed the thirty second warning actually  
in manhattan  
yeah  
i'm at home  
uh_huh  
so it'd be interesting for the people that look at this signal i mean because there's a lot of background noise that you know people can hear  
so it'll be interesting how much of it actually gets picked up  
um yeah  
and often times that  
i can't talk on can't do this much later than now between sort of like six five thirty and six thirty or something like that because the traffic outside they [honk] the horn so loud i can't even hear the phone call  
uh about twenty after four  
okay  
yeah  
we're eastern  
and um what did did you ever try using like [prodigy] or any of those systems  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've never tried using that  
i don't know too much about it  
what about  
have you did you use commercially available software  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've never used d base um  
but i've heard both good things and bad things about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
people told me that it was sort of cumbersome to use  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you think you d base is more flexible or allows you to do more  
or do you think the others are pretty much compatible these days  
but uh  
yeah  
i didn't mean compatible  
i meant comparable  
my brain is going to [mush]  
and what do you work on at t i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i have a personal computer at home  
it's an a t compatible  
i don't use it very much any more  
i used to use it quite a bit  
i also have a p c at work that i use as a terminal  
i do some p c stand alone work on it  
and i can transfer data back and forth between the p c and the main frame  
what about you  
do you own a computer  
are you leasing them  
[loaners] from work  
do you work for t i  
what brand are they  
uh_huh  
i'm jealous  
what kind of consulting do you do  
uh_huh  
what kind of work do you do when you're consulting  
is it programming related  
uh_huh  
word processing  
no i'm   not familiar with that  
uh_huh  
so you've got you've got a modem in it then  
at home   you have a modem that you can connect to each of them  
uh and so it's an external modem  
i got when i got mine i had an internal modem in it  
i used it uh quite a bit when i was uh uh looking at uh information on a large bulletin board sponsored by a newspaper in a in fort worth  
but uh went out of town for a while  
and and sort of got off the uh bulletin board and off of my micro completely  
and after a while the modem started making noises on its own without uh even without using it on the computer  
i could turn a computer on  
it'd start [squawking]  
so i finally opened up the box and took it out  
i think that's the thirty second warning  
yes  
okay  
where   where are you  
and uh  
are you at home now  
so you've got a lot of traffic noise real close  
what time is it now where you are  
so you're an hour ahead of where i am  
i'm in central   central time zone  
no  
i haven't done that  
uh i know someone who has  
and and she's uh very uh pleased with it  
she told me some of the things you can do  
and it's just a a very handy tool to have  
yeah  
and you can do a  
it makes things very convenient  
you can save a lot of money too certainly cut down on long distance charges if you if that's what you have in mind  
i have i have used lotus  
i have used uh word perfect  
uh i  
not heavy use  
i've used uh d base  
and uh i've used a substantial amount of shareware  
um i haven't done much lotus work connected with my job  
i've been through three classes  
and i have a great deal of respect for it  
um i haven't done much word processing work with my job  
i do some  
and i  
and the d base work i've done was strictly class related  
well it's probably the [granddaddy] of most uh data base management systems  
it's got some pretty strong competitors  
some of them have reviews that are better than d base  
so i i think by now it's a matter of uh personal taste  
i can understand that very easily  
i've used i've had a class on um r base and also in [paradox]  
and both of those seem very easy to use compared to d base  
um i wouldn't say compatible but   certainly comparable  
uh_huh  
i'm a computer programmer   on the i b m main frames  
i do uh mainly business data processing  
i also handle production support for the systems in my area of responsibility  
um sometimes i get called late at night at home because there's a production problem  
and that gives me the opportunity to uh come in to work and fix it if i can't think of   some thing to tell the trouble [shooter] while we're on the phone  
um i also uh handle most of the calls from our users and other [programmers] who need to find out something connected  
yes  
we are we are talking about computers this morning  
you have you have four machines around you  
boy well you've uh you've got me beat  
i have a a zenith here  
and at home i have a commodore   and a zenith  
and my wife has an a t and t twelve hundred i believe it is  
well actually on my commodore i mainly study lottery numbers would you believe  
i have written some uh programs in basic   whereby i can select any number of uh drawings   and from that [extract] the numbers that have appeared the most  
i have another program in which i can look at the [cyclical] uh appearance of these numbers   to see if there's anything that's consistent on that  
i have another number that allows me another program that allows me to add all the numbers i want  
and then it generates a complete set of numbers so that all combinations are covered  
so this is what i do most of the time uh  
on my commodore  
on my commodore  
uh_huh  
and of course i have uh word processors  
and i write all my letters  
it's wonderful uh  
my uh thoughts in my head   come in [bursts] of about a paragraph at a time  
and i get   them all down  
and naturally on a computer if you make a mistake who cares  
you can go back and uh correct it very easily  
so that makes it very very nice  
i get all my thoughts down and go back and clean it up very very readily  
so how about you charles  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so where may i ask where you work sir  
i know you work for the government  
i just wondering are you an  
or what what what section of it  
oh uh_huh  
because see that's my type of work too  
i work at the applied research lab   here here on campus  
and my my field is underwater acoustics  
and there's a lot of things we can do with computers into uh studying how uh things vary in the water you know   and uh taking advantage of them and so forth  
so it's a very nice very nice field  
and i i am retiring at the end of this month end of december excuse me  
yes  
i'm a i'm an associate professor  
but my i i'm a full time researcher  
and it's uh been a very very interesting career believe me  
well uh the ones here in the laboratory obviously i'm they're going to stay  
but i have similar machines at home  
i would consider doing some more consulting when i get home  
but i have a very very busy extra life anyway  
i'm also a musician  
and i play in several symphony orchestras  
and uh i run a concert band  
and   so i have a lot of external uh interests  
but i do want to get very deeply much more deeply into computer work because obviously the world is going to be controlled   run and operated   by computers in the future  
there's no doubt about it  
because it is really taking over  
and the amount of work that we're doing and the depth of things that we are studying can basically only be handled by computers because uh it's so much involved  
and it sounds as though you're probably more aware of that than i am because uh i don't get to use it in my daily work as much as i would like to  
here again   let's say i'm starting to getting ready in preparation for retirement  
and uh so basically what i'm doing is slowly getting rid of my things  
for many many years i had a full size acoustics uh study laboratory   where i could take recordings and and uh perform experiments   with them and so forth  
and so that's gone now  
and so i'm sort of out of business  
uh as i say i worked with  
fellow named steve [blazey]   was the fellow i worked with for many many years  
and he is now retired  
so it's been an interesting life  
and computers have come in towards the latter end of that  
i wish we had had computers in the very beginning  
it would have been  
so the the question had something to do with usage of personal computers um  
um i'm a firm believer in in having lots of them  
i'm sitting at my desk now with four machines in front of me  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
good grief  
what do you do with all those  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's what you do on your at least one of your machines  
on your commodore  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yes  
well i um i do an awful lot of preparation of documents um uh  
and i use word processors and and fancier programs i mean   you know graphics programs and simply make all of our slides  
some of them i do on a sun  
some i do on an x t  
now maybe we don't call these personal computers um  
i started out with you know an i b m p c back in the you know about a year after they came out  
and you know  
i work for the government in washington  
of in in in an obscure part of the defense department  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are are are you are you also a professor  
or or do you   just research  
yes  
i can believe  
what are you going to what are you going to do when you stop i mean take all your machines with you or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now we're ready  
do you have a personal computer  
you do in your home  
i do not have one in my home  
i use one all day at work  
but i don't have one at home  
do you find you use it a lot  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what kind do you have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that sounds interesting  
i have a a p s one i b m type  
uh and i use it all day at work  
and i put all my personal stuff on it at work  
so i really don't haven't had a need for one at home  
but probably if i didn't have access to one all the time at work i'd want one at home  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what is that [tracing] tracking the [flights] and things  
uh  
they tell us when we're through  
they come in and tell us  
have you just started doing this  
oh really  
they'll come in and tell us that the switchboard is full now  
and it's time for you to wind up in the next thirty seconds or something like that  
it's not more than five  
but i'm going to ignore that  
that's a call on my other line  
so   i'm just going to ignore it  
but  
it's kind of a hassle when you have this  
but other times it  
i work at texas instruments  
yes  
i sure do  
well no  
i'm doing this at home  
i'm already home for the day  
i do it you know i can't do it at work  
i i'm i work in the legal department  
so i'm pretty busy  
but i use my p c there mostly for creating legal documents  
we use word perfect lotus  
uh  
yeah  
it's really  
i love lotus  
i think that's about my favorite  
uh_huh  
it really is  
and i know there's still a hundred things i don't know how to do on it  
but uh you know you learn something every time you use it  
uh_huh  
you can  
did they give you a number to call  
you can start calling in whenever it's convenient for you  
but you can only make one call a day  
yeah  
if you've talked to someone like you're talking to me now   and i place the call this counts as your call  
so you cannot make a call now until tomorrow  
no  
we both do  
didn't they   ask you for your i d number when you answered  
okay  
so you both do  
from what i understand  
it's for research  
it's a research type project on   uh voice activated electronics you know  
to uh  
it's uh  
well they call it the speech lab that is setting this thing up  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they're doing research for a lot of big companies from what i understand on this  
now i don't know   i don't know everything about it  
but they uh try to get as many people as they possibly can to contribute to this  
and that way they can check voice patterns  
uh_huh  
and get the computer where it [recognizes] voices  
well i probably do because i've  
well i've been i was born and raised in texas  
have lived here forever  
so i probably do  
i'm in richardson  
it's right outside of dallas  
uh_huh  
well richardson's right between dallas and plano  
you probably did  
uh_huh  
well what are you doing way in washington  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting  
uh_huh  
so i imagine they use personal computers  
do they do their correspondence on it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we have one  
yes  
yes ma'am  
do you wish you  
i don't use it as much as my children and my husband do  
my actually my husband and i are taking a class at our local junior college called micro micro computers one o one  
and we're just touching on data base spreadsheets and word processing and just kind of you know different kinds of storage  
and we're just kind of touching on a basic   computer  
we have an i b m compatible  
it's a [gateway] brand   that we bought mainly for our children to have educational programs  
yeah  
what kind of a computer do you use at work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i worked on my airline apollo focal point computer for about four years   which was different  
but i didn't  
right  
right  
how long are we supposed to talk on this  
oh okay  
okay  
this is   this is my very first time  
yes  
oh okay  
uh-oh  
oh okay  
oh okay  
that i have that too  
where do you work  
oh you do  
oh well of course  
of course  
that's why you why you're making these calls right  
oh i see  
well this is a pretty good deal  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you do know lotus huh  
oh that's great  
that's something we want to learn  
oh  
i've heard that people that finally learn how to use it really like it  
that's great  
uh_huh  
i have a question  
on this this thing that i'm this survey or whatever you know this   i [volunteered] for  
do i start calling in myself  
or do i wait for people to call me  
right  
and eight hundred number  
oh only one a day  
right  
oh  
oh i see  
okay  
so then do you get the five bucks  
or do i  
oh we both do  
well that's   a  
right  
i had to put that in  
well that's a pretty good deal  
so why why are we doing this  
actually i'm doing this for somebody else but you know for a friend of mine  
uh_huh  
oh  
it's almost like that   like a voice command   computer type   thing oh  
well that's wonderful  
i see  
different kinds of voices and things  
wonderful  
see that's why i it's interesting because you have i i'm going to say you have an accent  
and i and i think that i don't  
i mean to you  
but  
you know  
and you're in what city  
okay  
my sister one of my sisters lives in plano  
and that's right outside of  
how about that  
i probably went through richardson then  
and then i have a sister that lives in austin  
but  
well we're actually all from nebraska  
they just are recently moved there  
my brother in law is director of admissions at the university of texas   in dallas  
yeah  
and then my sister works at the air force base  
actually yes  
they both have personal computers  
uh i think they just send christmas letters on it  
as far as i  
mostly my one sister uses hers for her children   you know children's games  
well i uh  
couple of them  
i at the moment use an a s t two eighty six  
and i got a leading edge  
and i got a american one and had a i b m one  
but  
what do you have  
oh yeah  
what did you do put it together  
well that's  
yeah  
yeah  
what do you use it for  
what do you use it for  
oh yeah  
what kind of programs do you  
okay  
i mean like business programs  
or   man  
uh_huh  
huh  
well that's  
well that sounds interesting  
matter of fact uh i guess you do uh you get a lot of graphics in there i imagine huh  
that's where the speed helps out  
yep  
that will that will   slow you up  
well i i do uh uh programming for c n c [turret] [presses] and   uh cat cam system type things  
and uh really need a faster system  
uh i got a new line that i i sell metal fabricating equipment and cat cam systems and tooling et cetera  
uh  
who is that  
i've tried to do is get this outfit to   give me one  
that's how i got my other ones by selling their product for them  
they not only give me a demonstrator but the hardware as well as the software  
and as they   and as they go to the next one i just keep the  
that's why i have so many different levels of p c around at the moment  
a t s  
and where are they at  
oh yeah  
in richardson there  
in richardson  
i know where you mean  
there is a [mobil] and all that kind of uh on that one corner  
that's about lookout there i think isn't it  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
really  
well that's a good deal  
yeah  
uh there is a lot  
you ever go by lucky computer there  
i used to  
when i was putting shop floor computers together for guys i'd go and get their units and put them together and go and interface the stuff with our systems  
haven't been doing much of that for the last year or so  
so i i don't know where those guys are at these days  
but i  
yeah  
yeah  
i tell you those prices have just unbelievably come down  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
i was kind of surprised how rapidly they [bypassed]   the three eighty six  
that wasn't alive for but maybe two years  
is that right  
that's it  
i'll be darned  
huh well  
hi  
well i guess  
which one have you got right now  
or  
my my  
just a couple  
uh i've got an [omega]  
and i've got a uh generic three eighty or four eighty six machine  
yeah  
it's very very generic  
yeah  
and and uh upgraded it and put things in there and [dibbled] and [dabbled]  
and   now now it's now it's a fast machine  
that's all i got to say for it  
huh  
uh work  
uh i'm a contract programmer  
uh anything  
uh i've done business programming you know scientific applications like you know petroleum science stuff and   uh uh test equipment  
and i did the i i did one that was the demonstration of a touch touch screen for a company that sells uh touch screens  
it was kind of fun  
put a little bitty portable computer in there and a [plasma] display   and make it look like things like uh you know attack [simulators] and and   all sorts of little things you'd want to put your finger on the screen for  
oh yeah  
definitely  
uh yeah  
unfortunately the little portable p c that was plugged on the back was only a seven and a half megahertz eighty eighty six  
it's like slow  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know a guy that [upgrades] uh for a reasonable cost  
uh his name is t q or something like that  
and my notebook is somewhere around here  
see if i can make my telephone cord stretch far enough  
uh he's uh up in  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh that works  
uh here it is  
a t s computers  
uh_huh  
uh do you know where uh custer is  
okay  
he's uh uh south of [renner] on on custer  
and there is a little bitty mall that looks kind of like or strip kind of center  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
it's it's it's just south of there  
it's a little place looks like a castle  
kind of uh little guy in there  
he he uh gives reasonable prices  
like i i traded my uh three eighty six for the four eighty six for about six hundred  
yeah  
it was pretty reasonable  
but uh uh he  
and he does a good job  
and he he he uh guarantees everything he sells  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh they they're up there in that mall uh just below campbell   or that strip strip center  
they're still doing business big business apparently  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i was amazed i was able to get this four eighty six for six hundred even with a trade in  
you know it's like wow  
that works  
i'll go do that  
and boy that thing screams now  
uh_huh  
well i thought was funny that they kept pushing the three eighty six s x even though the the price difference is about ten dollars  
yeah  
it when it comes on the manufacturing floor it's about ten bucks  
yeah  
uh let's see  
personal computers  
so do you use them  
terrific  
what kind  
mostly for word processing type things  
nice  
did you buy a program to handle menus  
oh yes  
eighty eighty eight is what you said  
eighty  
oh gosh it's worth your time to just upgrade  
they're so darned cheap now  
computers  
oh no  
uh i've i've got one at home too  
it's a three eighty six thirty three megahertz forty four meg ram and hundred and thirty meg drive  
and   super v g a  
and yeah it's fun  
i do programming too  
my job is uh e d p auditor  
and so i'm into computers all the time  
electronic data processing  
yeah  
i really enjoy it  
and it treats me well  
uh what are you studying in college   computers  
how nice  
how they work is fascinating to me  
was it  
did  
hardware stuff huh  
what do you think of that fuzzy logic  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're pretty amazing  
uh i've written a couple of programs for commercially uh  
and it's a fun field  
what  
no  
in uh  
no  
just regular uh  
but you have to take into account you know with any computer program all the type of things people can do to you to make your program crash or things you   normally don't consider  
yeah  
pushing keys certain times and   uh messing up your files and things like that  
and you're going to be an engineer computer engineer type  
i don't  
that's good uh  
yes  
uh yes  
um we own one  
uh its an [emerson] eighty eighty six um two low density floppy drives and no hard drive yet  
but uh you know it's it comes in [mighty] handy  
uh yeah  
a big chunk of it's word processing  
we're also taking programming classes  
and uh so there's a fair amount of programming getting done on it  
but uh uh the uh  
right now we got a project going where we're trying to put uh all my wife's stray recipes on the disk  
uh it came with a menus program  
but uh that doesn't  
it it  
both excuse me  
mostly kind of a pain in the neck without a hard drive  
and hopefully sometime this spring we'll be able to get one and get it [configured]  
eighty eighty six  
which  
uh [impoverished] college student  
this one went on a credit card  
and we got a way out while to pay it off yet  
so it's   oh that's sounds nice  
e d p  
okay  
that sounds like fun job  
yes  
uh   computer engineering  
well computer engineering technology uh which uh all i can understand is it's a slightly more hands on version of computer engineering  
but i've got a ways to go yet  
so far most of what i've done is getting gotten core classes out of the way  
taken some electronics classes and one class in um with computer logic  
oh yes  
i enjoy it myself  
the uh lab for that uh computer logic class was a lot of fun  
yeah  
we got to hook up a few uh [counters] and uh [encoders]  
yeah  
i've not had a chance to work with it although um my uh data [structures] teacher was telling us something about how fuzzy logic works as far as the concept behind it  
now how you'd implement that software wise or mechanically i don't know  
but uh it sounds like a very impressive piece of piece of work  
yes  
in the fuzzy logic direction  
yeah  
entering bad information of one sort or another  
and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
well what the computer what the c e t program seems to be so far is just a broad based specialized from  
you get programming a fair amount of programming  
you get hardware  
you get uh more or less uh you get basic electronics courses that uh deal with you know not only the digital [circuitry] but uh you know power supplies and and uh just the whole [gambit] but mostly towards uh computer electronics  
so the idea is that um you can go in a variety of direction from c e t major  
but i i have more with the hardware than i do with the software  
so yeah  
i   pretty much plan on i mean so far i'm planning to go in the engineering direction  
okay jerry  
i guess uh tonight's topic is about uh personal computers and level of interest and uh and your your expertise  
oh well  
okay  
well first of all  
you want me to start off  
okay  
real real fine  
uh first of all uh yes  
uh i do own a p c here at home  
and i also have one at the office  
and my level of interest is quite high with p c  
and i was really i am really interested in them however not to the extent as i was about uh two years ago when i basically knew about everything there was to know about different things  
and that was the time when we were shopping for one  
and i think we got a top of the line at that time  
but uh as you know p c change quite rapidly  
and the technological advances kind of outdated our p c where i can get the same p c i got two years ago at the fraction of the cost  
and i also enjoy using ours at home  
and we use it for a a number of different things  
plus i get in a lot an awful lot of good use of one at work where i work  
lot of uh [analytical] uh testing reviews uh lot of different things i use it at at work  
so i enjoy p c  
and they they make my life and my work a lot easier  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
wow  
all right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yes  
sounds like you're an expert at it too  
yes  
oh well well  
well that's great  
uh_huh  
right  
great  
we do an awful lot of that too with ours  
oh yes  
definitely agree with that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow  
wow  
you got  
that's a four eighty six processor too  
wow  
that's  
yes  
yes   has to  
you have to have that to support unix  
uh_huh  
of ram  
right  
yeah  
wow  
okay  
well good for her  
you say she's a programmer also  
uh_huh  
well great  
well she probably needs that kind of a powerful type of a machine to do her work  

oops  
oh well  
well okay  
well let's let's fire away  
uh well brian  
yeah  
why don't you why don't we why don't you do about thirty seconds  
and i'll do thirty seconds  
and then we can work off of there  
well uh since uh  
well i guess since this time last year i've changed uh jobs within the firm i'm with  
and uh i now am learning to be a [sys] [admin] on on not only p c but uh uh professional work stations   as well  
and these are the big [mamas] i e sons uh hewlett [packards] uh   uh uh-oh the big [solburns] and and so forth  
and uh  
and and uh we have uh two p c here  
we have uh an x t  
and then recently we we made a the command decision to go ahead and get uh the absolute top of the line because spouse is a uh programmer  
and so we got one that   that could do enough uh and you know hold three different o s   as far as dos uh unix and uh o s two  
so uh i i get to see all kinds of different applications  
no  
no  
learning  
i'm learning i'm learning to be uh one who knows what's he's doing  
but expert  
no  
i [frown] on that that term because uh too many people you know uh misuse the word  
so   i'd rather say i'm i i am continually learning  
but my area my level of expertise is increasing almost daily  
and uh yeah  
so i've got a p c and a work station at work  
and i  
and we have two p c here at home  
and the  
a lot of the the the new mama we're uh  
i've got [aldus] and uh [micrographics] on it as far as uh technical publishing  
and we do a quite a bit of church work with ours  
and uh  
you know some  
i i i've found that uh the more we do with it uh  
it seem  
and the [lord's] just pleased that we're kind of  
this is this is part of giving back a portion of what he's given to us  
so uh i don't mind because seems like the more we do there's there's the more stuff that's uh available that comes along and so forth  
and  
so uh rather than being [niggardly] and and [chintzy] uh we've just said you bet boss seeing as he was the one that uh   [enabled] us to get the money to buy the four eighty six  
because the top of the line we've got  
well we've got a compatible  
it  
uh   eight meg of ram and and two two two hundred and eleven hard drives  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
like i said   we bought a real steam steam burner   uh mainly because of [spouse's] unix   because unix   takes a a a well four [megs] minimum   of ram  
and then uh it it it likes to live on about a hundred and fifty megabyte hard drive  
so the next size up was a two hundred and eleven  
and so rather than just have one we went ahead and got two  
uh at some point in time i'm going to do the [mirroring] uh experiment to where one disk mirrors the other for   fault tolerance  
and uh-oh speak speak of the angel she just walked in  
t i stuff  
so uh uh  
yeah  
she's she's a squirrel for uh uh contractor out at american airlines  
so  
do you have a p c  
uh_huh  
yeah  
a lot of my friends are into macintoshes  
i have a um p c a i b m p c myself  
a two eighty six  
i'm probably eventually going to get a three eighty six um  
um mostly um word processing applications and uh just as a dumb terminal  
um but i um i think eventually i'll start using it for spreadsheets and things like that  
um what do you find that you use yours mostly for  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i i think i i'm planning on like moving up getting a three eighty six before i move up to windows   although you know i do like the the [graphical] user environment  
yeah  
it's um  
i want i want to be able i just want it more for multi [tasking] which i suppose is also like a macintosh  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what i learned a lot of languages on was an apple two e in my high school  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well do you use your computer for um just things around the house or in the  
well see what do you do  
oh wow  
um and uh are these like uh do these programs um  
are are they based on on a on a um other language  
or are they based are they based  
like a lot of the um you know a lot of the english as a second language classes will have people from all sorts of you know parts of the world  
and the teacher just tries to tries to teach english you know through natural understanding  
uh_huh  
well it was just uh when i was high school i worked for the community school  
and they had a english second language class  
and it always seemed strange to me that you know all these all these people that you know spoke english not too well and spoke you know a variety of different languages were all being taught at the same time  
i imagine it's a lot harder on a computer because you have to you know you don't have as many cues  
you can't don't have hand [gestures] and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh to see how well they retain the vocabulary and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i would imagine so  
um so um what were you doing when you were using an apple two e  
uh_huh  
it it's  
yes  
it's amazing you know how how like in the general user community the expectations have just grown so much  
i remember my first computer was a t r s eighty with four k on it  
and you know then then we then i started playing with apples you know  
and those had forty eight  
or you know if they were really great   they had sixty four k  
uh i know   i know that in my school they had a bunch that had sixteen k on them is all  
and  
there's i remember that there was one game that i played that required forty eight k  
and there was only one computer that had forty eight k on it at the time  
and you know it's just so amazing that generally you know if you if you  
i'm not sure about macintoshes  
but i know i b m you you generally you know you buy a megabyte at a time  
you know that's that's your that's the low end uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i imagine  
yes  
i have a macintosh s e thirty  
uh_huh  
what do you use yours for mostly  
uh_huh  
well i do a lot of word processing and spreadsheets and data base  
and uh about the only thing  
i am uh i'm just starting to get into uh a little bit more communications now  
i've just today ordered a fax modem  
so i'll be able to   send and receive [faxes] right over there without using you know  
you don't have to make a hard copy that way  
uh are you using windows  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it's getting to be more and more like a macintosh  
uh_huh  
well the one thing i used to use a uh  
i've never used an i b m actually  
i used to use a just an apple two e which of course is   looks pretty [primitive] now  
but i don't have any uh any real programming capabilities on my uh mac right now  
i don't have uh any [compilers]  
so i'm uh  
i use it in my business  
i uh do uh [consultation] and and testing of various kinds for uh english as a second language programs  
that's uh exactly what yeah that's the kind of thing i'm working with exactly  
you seem to be uh better informed than the average person on that  
uh_huh  
right  
well now we uh  
what i use a computer for is to write materials that   are later printed though  
most of the stuff that i do is not uh interactive  
and i use it for uh data analysis on testing  
so  
well just actually just uh item analysis statistical analysis of the tests uh  
you know when you write a test you have to look at some data from it and see how the different questions are performing   and find out which ones are [discriminating] well and which ones aren't   find out how reliable the test is  
you try [correlate] it with other tests and things of that sort  
so it's involves a lot of spreadsheet use  
well i was doing some of the same stuff but doing it more slowly   and with smaller files  
i can't believe you know i've got uh five uh [megabytes] on this one now  
and on my two e i had a hundred twenty eight k  
yeah  
oh the old   the old apple uh the the original apple had what yeah forty eight i guess didn't it  
my goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well the s p thirty goes up to eight  
but i haven't upgraded it quite that far yet  
i think probably when i get system seven i may have to do that and and get another possibly another hard disk  
i don't know  
they say that system seven uses a lot of memory  
actually i've been involved in electronics a long time uh in computers  
and i have really resisted the impulse to get one for the home   uh up until i guess maybe about a year and a half ago  
i got one for my son a a macintosh   uh l c  
it's a real easy to use color uh computer  
and i got a very nice printer that goes along with it  
and he uses it for his school work  
huh  
where you going to school  
i see  
in engineering  
so that explains all the uh computer assignments  
well do you use your p c for things other than [explicit] computer work  
no  
no  
i just have one for my son  
and i really sort of have the feeling that word processing is a big market for   home [computing]  
at at work uh i'm a [technologist] uh  
and i in the past have done a great deal of of uh system development just through uh software development programming  
uh but now i find myself using the computer  
even the computer at work is primarily a uh word processing system   and a communication system  
yes  
[emil] is probably pulls down a third of all my time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh well i'm a old timer  
i did my master's thesis on uh a typewriter  
uh i rented an i b m [selectric]  
and it was a pretty big deal  
yeah  
it uh well you know it's just it was just a completely different world then  
i like it  
yeah  
i like it from a distance really  
i i see the packages on it uh that are available  
and it's nice  
i really don't use it myself  
uh i when i come home from work i i like to stay far away from   computers and electronic things  
uh so i let my son do it  
and   uh of course you know there's uh there's an intellectual evolution taking place where  
it's sort of a joke  
but it's really true  
the old timers even the people who are [technologists] don't know how to operate these electronic things like v c r and whatnot  
and the kids they just take to it like candy  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i've i'm currently in school  
so i i've had an i b m clone i guess for a couple of years now which i've been trying continually upgrading i guess  
and uh i've found i've found that i pretty much become addicted to it  
and i can't really  
i've found that most of homework assignments really require some sort of computer uh [simulation] or analysis  
so  
it it's very essential for me  
schools have them  
uh but lot of times so difficult to get on them at school  
it's very easy it's much more convenient to have one at home  
at georgia tech  
yeah  
so  
yes actually  
yeah  
it uh  
um sure  
i have some games of course which i play on there  
and uh uh i have a program which allows me to access a uh weather data bank  
so i can like check up on the weather around the country or whatever which is a hobby  
so it provides other means other than just strict uh you know [computations] and so on  
so have you do you have a computer for yourself at home  
oh yeah  
yeah  

uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
do you use [email] and like that  
yeah  
it's  
i i uh i have modem night computer  
so i can log into the the uh network at georgia tech and access my account through there which is which can be useful  
but uh yeah  
that's that and word processing is  
while i tend to  
i mean obviously i do most of my almost all of my report writing on on my computer uh whether it's term papers or even some smaller homework assignments  
so it's it's really become i don't know really become my [mainstay] i guess  
i can't even remember  
actually i don't think i've ever used a typewriter in in my life to do a a to do a report because my family when i was growing up we got a basic computer t r s eighty when they first came out  
and i even used that to do my first reports when i was in junior high  
so  
oh yeah  
oh  
yeah  
it must have been tough  
it's a little bit strange for me  
i i did my master's thesis uh last year  
and i did that on a computer  
and it seems like  
i just can't imagine how people did it before  
it must have been just so much so much work  
yeah  
so uh so you used your son's macintosh then  
do you do you find it do you like that kind of computer  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well if if if the interface is there so that it's like fun to use and the challenge  
uh yeah
i have one of these little zenith [laptops] which uh the uh everybody here at school has to buy one
and
oh yeah
i'm a student uh at at harvard business school
and uh tremendously useful thing
it's uh the the [portability] and the [compactness] of it are uh pretty nice
it's uh you know enough that you can kind of throw it in a [briefcase] or uh slap it over your shoulder and carry it around
uh it's got an internal three and a half inch floppy yeah
and uh it also has a forty megabyte hard drive built in
and uh you know the batteries carry it for at least four or five hours
and so you know i use it uh both in school to do uh spreadsheet analysis for various uh businesses that we're studying
and also uh you know it hooks up to normal printers and what have you
and uh works pretty well in that mode as well
i i'm curious what you'd use your uh your home computer for
uh_huh
uh_huh
does it does it cause a problem for you to use a different computer at work than you use at home
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
are are you at the point where the the mainframe appears slow to you relative to your personal computer given the the ratio
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
you you don't think that they went and did a uh what is it an [ishihara] uh quality analysis
uh_huh
uh_huh
that
that's tremendous are are your computers at work net uh [networked] at all
or is that
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
that's tremendous it's clearly a uh a uh productivity [enhancement] uh device and allows you to do
that that's been my experience also i've actually i guess i've been doing that since probably when i was in high school
many years ago
and uh it it it's gotten to the point now i think where the uh secretaries are are finding other jobs to do because you know the typing and to some extent the filing is just not there anymore
big paper files are disappearing uh_huh
i guess there's there's a fear that one day if the computers ever stopped working there'd be a bunch of people staring at the typewriter with no idea what to do with it
huh
do you uh if if i assume you all are [networked] to a a variety of of laser printers uh_huh
huh
because what i was what i was going to ask you
is it seems like the next big jump will come with color printing you were talking about doing your own presentation
and [foils] it would seem that color capability would be the next big sort of leap in
yeah
right
huh
wow
interesting
yeah
that's uh that's uh pretty powerful uh set of tools to give to people who traditionally have had to go through a whole production process just to get people together
huh well uh frank i think i kind of need to get back to some other things
so i hope we've talked uh covered enough of of this for for what this is all about
yeah
it was a pleasure
so do you have a computer at home
do you
i got my
i got my first one i've been at t i forever
and i found an engineer selling his really old t i p c
uh i think so
no
not ninety nine it's one of the full t i p c's and he's an engineer
so he even came over and set it up for me and had it running for like two hundred dollars
so i thought that
well now
it does
no no no no it's just the old p c
and it has two [floppies] it doesn't have a winchester it doesn't have anything but for what i need just
keeping records it does just fine
oh really
i'll be darn
when i uh i'm in uh plano right now
but when i was up at uh mckinney
i had uh i b m p s two
i loved that thing
i loved it
well i have kids
fortunately that have left grown
gone thank heaven
to them
i admit it
it was fun leave
the [emptiness] syndrome is a myth there's no such thing i mean it's nice
it really is
yeah
we're talking though uh on my
you know i don't really know
i knew when i bought it
but i don't know
right now i've got a little program uh genealogy program
called family ties
and i can research and go to the library and and discover who married who what year and all
this sort of thing and come back and load it all into my computer
and then when i want to say this is going to be a present for my grandchildren tell them all
okay
here you are
and then i can sort it all that they can trace it back to their parents and the grandparents and on
you know do an explosion
and it all prints out up to five generations
per and you know you can select the child
oh how how fantastic
oh
get out of here
for heaven's sake
i've never heard of one
i didn't know anything about this
that's fantastic
i'm familiar with commodore
well i'll be darn
what what do you have at work
so you're into oh we have some suns in this building uh i'm a buyer and and i help them with their maintenance contracts and repair and things like that just it's it's not much of my job
but it you know i do come in contact with them
those are expensive machines
good grief
why do you think t i has not used the [amiga] because uh_huh
um
oh i see
uh_huh
yeah
well that's wonderful
i'd never even heard of it
so your kids were having a good time
and you were working
that's marvelous
just marvelous
well i work in
i a [smiths] so we're forever looking at something else
uh i you know i work
well you know you'd be surprised how many of the various ones are coming in and giving us demos at all times
and i sit in on all this stuff
let me ask you something if you were if you needed to go to another town somewhere you know
fly to a to see a supplier and do a review there could you put your presentation on a television and just kind of send him the disk instead of going yourself
uh_huh
so you could just say okay fellows we've got a problem get everyone in the room and let them
see this tape rather than buying an airline ticket
uh_huh
how much would this cost
yeah
for the whole operation
we don't need that
we don't need that type of graphics that's just
i share your your uh sense when you change job to work or job to home uh the way your your image of the machine changes i tend to do slightly different things at home than i do at work
um i use one two three a lot the lotus product
as a spreadsheet and i have i use a uh what you see is what you get editor for almost all of my word processing
so i have not although i have access at home to things like works and wordperfect uh but i i do
obviously notice it
i i think the thing that surprises me most when i change work to home environment is the [cursor] speed and after i if initially get over the uh the [cursor] speed in the sense of moving [linearly] across the screen uh as opposed to [tabbing] uh i'm a touch [typer] and i haven't ever really noticed uh differences uh the machine tends to react as fast as i can i use an as a matter of fact use an eighty eighty eight at at home uh which is really old iron uh probably ten years or so
and and at the office
uh i am indeed using a three eighty six um i use a p c for a great deal of things in in private life
uh i'm a church treasurer and i use the machine a lot on a uh uh data base and financial package that that operates at the church office i do some uh volunteer work at home using uh a buttons p c file program that uh is a very [simplistic] [relational] data base for labels and things
so i guess i would have to say on a home setting i'm probably on the personal computer as much as an hour a day on average at home
um
i don't have a concern too much about the speed
however because most of the applications i find are as fast as i am if not more
so
and i tend to notice it more when it comes down to an issue of [peripherals] uh at work
i'm used to various batch printing capabilities and uh pretty high speed output either laser printer uh
or uh machines like uh i b m thirty eight twenty high speed uh a p a printers and so i get frustrated uh watching things slowly come out upon my matrix printer
more so than i do over over access speed um i guess that i have gotten to the point where if if i didn't have the personal computer
i would be [impacted] a great deal on the things that i do in my life
i'm i'm sure i would probably find ways to return to what i was doing in nineteen eighty one when i
got my first home computer
but it would be
i think a a dramatic sense of loss on on some items
uh no
i have access to uh spell [correction] uh material
i i seldom use it
although when i'm at the office
and i'm producing work correspondence uh i i run about ninety per cent of my office work on a mainframe uh i i execute on a three eighty six machine that is attached to the mainframe as a as a intelligent work station
but i use it frequently as a [dumbhead] to get to the mainframe and and there i tend on almost all of my editing and stuff to to be using some fairly powerful editors and word processors and and [wordproof] but surprisingly at home
and i seldom ever bother uh or worry about it too much uh i guess ultimately i'm not a a horribly bad [speller] although i have a tendency to [lisp] when i type so to speak
uh nothing that that's particularly horrible
and i think most of the work word processing i do since it's somewhat of a personal nature
i've probably don't have a sense of [vulnerability] in this in the even that i were to to to send a a misspelled word out the way one might have at the office place
uh
okay
right
that's a
that's an interesting point
i think a the more i as i've thought about our conversation
i realize that one of the things that perhaps causes me not to get a jarring difference between the two locations
is that at the office i'm doing work things that in some ways are dissimilar from what i do at home
uh and as a result i don't get the [comparative] feel uh i suspect if i were coming home and trying to do some of the projects i do at the office
i would go crazy on my on my machine
uh i haven't tended to play the games and and uh do the applications at work that i do at home
so i probably have never been in noticed how wonderful it might be
uh i suspect lotus one two three and spreadsheet application might be the one common thread
um and there i think that even though i'm on an eighty eighty eight at home
the the speed is really quite adequate uh and and i consequently don't even really notice uh the the difference between the the fast machine and and the eighty eighty eight
right
right
i i do have some uh retirement modeling that i've done at home that uh tends to crawl uh which on which i've just turned the calculation off in between
and a couple of models that i've built uh for school purposes that i start in the evening
and then go to bed
and get them the next morning
but they would have run an hour and a half even on a thirty three eighty six machine
i imagine
so i suspect that what happens is that uh you get to the point where it's so long that uh from a human being perspective there's not much difference between six hours and an hour and a half
yeah
i do i own a um i own an i an x t clone it's a [samsung] and uh with a hyundai monitor [monochrome] monitor that i just keep at home for work
and acts as a terminal for me because i'm a graduate student
and i log out of school from there
i'm a graduate student in psychology yeah
i do uh language [acquisition] work
but it's it's it's very helpful
it's nice to have a machine at home that i can use locally for things like writing and so forth
but i don't
yeah
and then i don't need a printer
yeah
yeah
i don't need a printer or anything because i just sort of
i can just call school and transfer everything over to school over the phone lines so how about you
okay
i know it
yeah
p s t general [architecture] there'll better
we just bought it last year
and they um there are some slight differences between those and other machines i'm finding oh it fine
i actually don't i haven't actually noticed a major difference between a p s two and everything else actually
um you know in in in terms of performing faster or better or anything
i'm not actually sure what the major advantage of a p s two over anything else is with the possible exception of the fact that it's got a mouse port built in the back
yeah
yeah
i think so um it's it's although it's funny because i just i just had to discuss one of our machines because it's just too slow
somehow it slipped by us that we had bought one with two meg and of of of of ram and one with only one
and we're running this new version of lotus i don't know if you've ever seen this or not you know
that's true
actually i um i found that this particular version three of lotus one two three actually i think performs maybe even in the high ninety per cent of what i'm expecting at this point
i u
i'm i'm
it's it's it's because i'm new enough at it yet that i haven't figured everything out
my first exposure was i guess when i was an undergraduate um a couple of years ago we had they they inundated us with macintoshes
they brought a bunch of [macs] into uh there must have been some sort of program
and they brought macintoshes in for us to for the school to do
you know for all the kids in the school to do word processing on
and no
there there never was an undergraduate requirement it just everyone really everyone took to them very quickly
because there were a number of them available and uh i'm not sure they must have they didn't in my case i was a psych major
and they didn't i know that here they're required of some of of um where i am now
they require it of of actually a number of different uh majors you know um some psychologists people psychology can take that in lieu of other courses
and people in business have to uh i think are supposed and people in cognitive science definitely have to
oh yeah
i i actually um you said you said you work on [mainframes] a lot
that's a lot of what i do is on a a sun
i don't know if you work on suns at all
um so sun micro system machine which is another mainframe in a type of a mainframe we do lots of um sort of brain you know [neural] network modeling on on on a on a lot of mainframe machines
so yeah
this is been a lot of expanding and having to be able to have things at home
and and to study the interaction too has been wonderful
wow
well no
i mean wow
they must have been very different back then
uh uh wow
why base five
god
so you've really watched the whole the whole thing grow
i mean the the the notion of personal computer back then meant you had to have your own living room
wow
so this is the perfect topic for you
okay
well how do they compare with like um you know the big um the big you know the ones that that took up a whole room in the sixties
i mean how would you you know power wise was that less well actually less powerful
oh god
that much
and and and that much bigger too for the same analogy wow
okay
oh god
okay
right
that's true
that's true
right
and they'll and they'll say imagine those big [clunkers] laptop computers way back one
yeah
they they going to say there's a big move for that
my uh my my sister in law is a principal of a school and she just switched but before she was in a um a in a in a different school
and she wrote a grant with i think it was apple or i b m one of the two
i'm pretty sure it was apple actually to uh to get a whole [bunchy] of you know p c into or p c type machines into the school for the kids to use
and and it just according to her
it's just a wonderful thing kids go in and are able to work at their own pace and you know computers aren't [impatient]
uh_huh
uh_huh
i don't have it at home
but i used one at work
and i play on there
but i do i do some of my own stuff
on there too
so
um oh games mostly um data base like address lists and recipes
and just uh sort of the stuff that i like to keep track of mostly most of what i do is shareware games and and copies of stuff that i've gotten from other people
i use lotus a lot just because i like using lotus
uh no
because they're two and four
so
they're not quite old enough to use it yet
i tell them mommy is playing on the computer
so they know what i'm doing
but at work i use it
mostly for
i most of what i do is in lotus i we've got a couple of word processing
but i'd rather use lotus
i know it better
uh yeah
well we've got wordstar two thousand we just got wordperfect and i haven't gotten around to learning wordperfect yet
so
yeah
it's
i like well i work for the r t c
so we that's what everything they send us is in wordperfect so we kind of had to get wordperfect
so
oh
i bet
uh_huh
well good
yeah
that's that's one thing i'm hoping but the time
mine get up there that we will be able to have one at home
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
yeah
that's since i work for the r t c
we used to i used to be the loan teller for a failed savings and loan
and couple of our customers would use the automated check writing
programs yeah
and it was i it was always interesting to see them
it was like oh okay
i recognize these
who would be
i i guess that would be a pretty good feature to use on that
uh_huh
that would be good
yeah
i'm kind of hooked on tetris well the shareware version i got has got like six different versions of tetris uh_huh
it was like three dollars
i i like that
it's it's pretty cool
um
it's called [nyet] n y e t
which is what is it
oh something about
it's not not called tetris you know it's like
uh_huh
and the other [version's] called ain't yeah
well the the four letters i can't remember what they stand for
but it's a little can't think of what that thing's called
but it's it's a four word phrase that means no
it's not tetris it's really not
it's fun
i like that
and plus there's a guy at work that he and i trade different games like he's like well what do you have
and i'll give you this
and so we trade he's given me jeopardy and monopoly and wheel of fortune
and
oh yeah
the only problem is the computer
i like to play them on
that's got the color monitor also i can't turn the sound off
so i haven't figured out how to turn the sound off yet
it's like oh
because i i haven't really been into computers except for about the last five years before then it was like get that computer out of here
i don't want it
around here leave me alone
but i've i've gotten to where i took a basic programming course out at richland and i really i enjoyed that
and i got a little bit further into programming
and i worked with a couple of our programming [analysts] down at uh frito lay and i thoroughly enjoyed that
and now it's like give me computer
and consequently i am the person that everybody comes to at work
it's
oh it's it really is
it's like um amazing how this turned around
she used to hate it
and now she loves it
but i like it
it's fun
oh i guess we have
that sounds pretty good
yeah
i think so
thanks a lot [vic]
okay
uh personal i don't have a personal computer i'd like to have one
if i had more
money i'd have one
is it is it hard to find uh compatible pieces for your the one you have at home
yeah
oh
yeah
i would think that would be the hardest part about having a home computer is the it seems like every month
they're coming out with something new
and so then you're not compatible
oh yeah
even with like the computer games nintendo and that kind of stuff
i mean they change it every year
and the the previous game or the previous program or whatever isn't compatible
oh
oh okay
well that isn't that doesn't sound too bad
not really not in my work uh i did try and take a class uh
i think last was it last spring
no
actually it was last fall
it was at at i took desktop publishing
i just wanted to get sort of a a slight feel for it
and it's an introduction course
and it was pretty fascinating
we we learned how to do how to make a [brochure] type thing out uh off the computer
so it was pretty interesting
oh so you
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
now the lotus is for mostly numbers and graphs and things like that
right
yeah
i'm not real good with computers at all
and that's mainly because i don't use them
i wish i did i'd be you know more up on it
oh my goodness
yes
yeah
have you heard about the phone that uh believe it's a t and t is it a t and t coming out with the phone with the like on the jetsons when you could see the you could see the person's face
have you seen that
yeah
yeah
yeah
i saw that in a in a magazine recently i was really shocked
yeah
oh i know
hopefully you can have control over
whether they can see you or not
but it looked pretty nice
and it's only going to be two thousand dollars
so which is not bad for something new
like that
so
uh_huh
yeah
oh
my mother does a lot of work on computers
and she taps into computers all over the world she works at at she works at t i
and uh
yeah
uh_huh
and uh you know she talks to people through the computer
from everywhere
so i think i think that's really neat too
okay
uh_huh
maybe she knows my mother because my mother used to work in plano now
she works in
uh north dallas
i think
but
uh_huh
i visited with some kids in elementary school and nowadays a lot of the schools have computers and the kids are really they're more interested in their [schoolwork] with the computer
you know they can also
play games
but then they can help them write papers and help with their math
and that kind of thing
oh yeah
and there's always something new even if you know even if you think you know everything about the computer there's always one button that you never quite use
and you don't
really quite know what it's for
and you know can be fascinating in that way too especially for a kid that you know is just learning
so
well hopefully i'll be able to get a computer at some point i don't know when but i don't need one right now
but there's going to come a time
i'm sure when everybody's going to have to have one
oh yeah
uh_huh
you want to start or you want me to start
okay
personal interests in computers basically nowadays
it seems like you can't get by without one everywhere i go it's got some kind of computer interface like pressing on a keyboards uh pressing in personal identification numbers all the a t m machines things like that
i personally don't own one
because i can't afford one uh every time you look in a friends houses and they show their computers and all the [knickknacks] they have it seems like they go from their basic computer to all these peripheral devices like uh [modems] and fancy printers or lazy printers and fax machines and games that they like to play course i i was impressed by some of the games
they have like flight [simular] game [simulator] for the different aircraft very close to it
i understand except for the bouncing around you use it
mostly for spreadsheets or do you use it for like word processing
yeah
i use a z two forty eight two eighty six at work
but it's basically to tie into the communications network then through our communications network we go to our mainframe on the base there
and use the unix operating systems
use their v i editor and we use uh read on line news through it and we also have terminal [emulations] through i b m thirty two seventy eight
and i don't know
i just don't i don't even use the hard disk drive to to copy any floppy disks or anything like that
i just basically use it for a window into their to the unix world
yeah
is that i b m or is that
an i b m type
i'm familiar with unix commands like uh [copying] files and [compressing] them things like that
i just have a fun time using their mainframe at the base
but i think a different language all right
yeah
we can use system five or we can use uh [seashell] you know i like uh i favor [seashell] over the other in fact i think most of our users like because they were trained in it
and they just don't want to learn something different
pardon
oh yeah
plus everybody in your office knows it
and as the new people come in
they kind of help each other out
but you have different people with different backgrounds
and they have a hard time sharing information
yeah
the disadvantage of v i editor you can't see all those fancy things i have another thing called q office from [quadratron] back in california that people like to use
but it's a very slow system
and i understand it's only on like we use a gold nine thousand fifty
and that's basically their format they use for word processing and they're trying to push people into using either word
good morning
do you have a a personal computer
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um i have one uh a [wang] or a sorry a [compaq] portable that my son picked up at one point
uh without documentation so it was very cheap it's a two eighty six
so it has no hard drive
uh so that's limiting i tend to use it to log into the the mainframe at work
and then i have a mac that i use for graphics and um i don't there's something about the mac a lot of things about the mac i don't like i don't like the size of the screen i have an old uh
plus i don't like the keyboard but it's extremely easy to use
and it's very good for for graphics and actually i i mean it's to the point where programs are readily available and inexpensive
so i did my income tax on it
i have uh uh it's not really a budget package
but a a financial tracking package you know for my checkbook and stuff like that
right
and i mean you can you can buy an extra screen
but uh it's somehow because the screen comes with it it it always looks awkward to have the two screens
and i found uh my son is um uh second year college student
and he in high school had no interest in the computer at all
and so he when teachers said you know you have to type your papers at least with a mac he was willing to sit down and type his paper
and um now he does play with with the you know i b m clone
but um and has learned quite a bit about it and tends to use it
instead of instead of instead of the mac so even without any propaganda and stuff
he he seems to have switched no
i mean he sees it as a tool much as i do
and uh he no
he's in international studies
so he's basically you know whatever the computer can do for you
fine
i'll learn enough to to make it work well for me
but i'm not going to be a guru uh_huh
right
but i think that is it is very frustrating because you know you're sure you did x
and it just doesn't work
and so you tell somebody who knows about computers and they say no
you obviously didn't do that because the computer doesn't doesn't [balk] right
and talk to them
yell at them
uh_huh
basically you're using it as a word processor
and what would you do
right
right
well it's been very interesting
okay
you too
i guess they mean just one that's in your home
uh_huh
okay
i guess
that's like the ones in t i
oh in your home
oh
uh_huh
how do you know about building you own computer
uh_huh
was that a little less expensive
oh
uh_huh
oh
seems like it would be more fun any way
my husband gets a kick out of building stuff for his self rather than buying one
no
he's not into electronics i'm just saying per se
he just likes to build stuff
but uh
uh_huh
somebody to help
do you use your computer for home uh
uh_huh
is that for your house or for your office oh okay
well couldn't you like um i'm pretty sure you can do this have it one in your home that has the same stuff in it that your office does
perhaps
kind of connect it
uh_huh
just [contains] okay
right
right
okay
you could just bring your disk home and do it
yeah
that was my problem in school i could not write programs
i loved messing with the computer though
but i just could not to a certain point
i'd just get messed up
and i would be totally lost
yeah
i want
i'm wanting to go back to school and this time i'll try a lot harder
uh_huh
well a lot them more or less close the computers the microwaves all have these new little buttons and just about every thing is getting computerized yeah
have you seen that uh thing that shows the [maps] i think that's neat
uh_huh
okay
now a friend of mine is trying is going for c p a
and she is having to take or she maybe it's just a preference that she's taking it on herself
but she is taking a computer class
yeah
i do our income taxes too
and you're right
it probably would be a lot easier if i the use a computer
uh_huh
uh_huh
and redo everything
right uh
yeah
well i've so far i've had been able to use the easy form
just me and my husband
so now i'm for my little boy's birthday is coming up
and i was thinking about getting him just one of those little i know i they've got toy computers more or less
just for kids just starting and he'll be four
but i've seen it on uh like twenty twenty and stuff whatever where they do have little third graders and stuff working on
uh_huh
uh_huh
probably
but i think that's the way it goes with most parents
uh_huh
well uh go ahead
well i don't know much about them
the main thing i didn't i don't even remember them having computers on uh that little sheet
but uh
uh_huh
well it's been pretty interesting
so far
yeah
all righty
all right
bye bye yeah
well yes
i do i have a t i p c
in fact i have two of them
i have i have one that i collected the the uh [ports] for one at a time
like first i bought just the uh the central processing unit
and the monitor
couple years later i bought a printer
and then i needed a a hard drive
so uh there was this guy at t i selling a a t i p c for four hundred dollars
and it had everything had the works
and it had the hard drive and everything
so i bought that one
instead of buying a hard drive for mine
so now i have that one with the hard drive
and mine with no
the the the other one with no hard
drive
and what i thought i'd use them for was just to to do some work out of my house for you know people who needed uh word processing and stuff like that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i thought i might uh get some extra income somehow or another uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i think i'll i'll i thought about doing that one time
in fact i saw somebody else advertise in the [dallasite] once
and uh thought about putting an ad in the newspaper also
but then i might just get too much business
but
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i i found a uh book once in the library that had sources for uh work at home
uh you know some of them required that you have a p c
but most of those wanted i b m [compatibles] and as as you know the t i p c is not i b m compatible
yeah
they did the the uh the business pro which is that's what i have at work
but uh i still have the problem of upgrading mine
either to a business pro or just going out there and buying a an i b m clone then i'll have three p c's uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
and circuit city
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
i saw a fact i believe the one i saw was a three eighty six also
it only had one one drive though
but it had a hard drive
you know some of them have the little uh the the small
yeah
plus
the the bigger one
uh_huh
i've never used one of those at all
you're kidding
uh_huh
oh i didn't
i didn't realize that
oh wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm going to look into getting one of those i b m clones but
right
uh_huh
yeah all right
bye bye
yes
but i'm sure there's always something new to learn because we have a growing growing uh computer world out there
no
i'm at uh texas instruments
uh_huh
oh golly numerous application presentations uh memos uh uh spreadsheets um just all kinds of things
i don't do any [plotting] though i don't do any you know i don't do any uh device [creations] or anything like that
like in [autocad] i don't do those
but we have that capability here
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's been ongoing for quite a while now is the speech recognition
it's uh i don't know how old
it is
but i know they've been pursuing it for a long time
that's right
yes
a lot of uh [glitches] to get out of it to work out of it
uh_huh
oh that's interesting isn't it
oh my word
uh_huh
well that's wonderful
how are you advancing on your uh endeavors well great
that sounds good
uh_huh
yeah
well that's wonderful
that's wonderful
now if we can get everybody together that has got all these uh uh new inputs that they're doing for speech and if they could get them together and compare notes
they probably would do well to jump a couple of hundred feet in that area
uh_huh
well that's good
do you have
do you have a group that uh you can interface with each other
like uh who's interested in speech that wouldn't be a bad idea
though
do you think that
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
so it's that that soon
uh_huh
it's going to be interesting to uh uh look at
i'm not involved in it myself you know
but uh just hearing what is going on at t i is very fascinating
and i don't know that much about it
i know that um in the group that i was working in there was an area that was really focused on speech recognition
however i'm not in that uh organization any more within t i
i'm in uh a different area of t i now working on something totally different
so uh my interest was [spurred] and then it was taken away because i i um was moved out of that area
oh it's definitely very fascinating
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh that's wonderful
that's like almost giving them a um evaluation
and going into the direction where they're gifted in
that's wonderful
um uh_huh
uh_huh
well you're you sound like you're very current with all that information
uh i know because you have children too
and you're also interested in the uh voice recognition
it's been so long since my my grandchildren are in school now
but i won't have to worry about them any more
just worry about your children
and uh let let the let the parents worry about the about their babies
but you just know that their doing well
so but i don't have any idea what's going on in the schools today
i'm not active in any school other than paying my school taxes
is uh kind of fun  
it's best done when you have leisure time  
and i had more of that in my childhood days than i have now  
and i grew up in an area that uh was just a few feet from a rather large lake and a few more miles from that was a even larger lake  
and we had a variety of boats at our disposal uh  
i worked for a camp for a number of years  
my father was on staff there  
and we had every kind of things from [canoes] to paddle boats [sailboats] [speedboats]  
you name it they had it  
and we did a lot of watering water sports  
but i think uh the thing i liked the best was uh we spent about a summer  
couple of guys uh restored an old wooden boat that was built back in the mid thirties and got a new canvas sail for it and had a real big old foot center board that went down in the middle to keep you upright when the waves  
or the wind came from the side  
and we got that thing in the water and had a real good time with it  
if you ever got it dumped over though it was a mess to get back up  
it wasn't like the newer ones that have nice chambers that keep it [afloat] or keep it uh upright again  
this one you had to work with  
you get out of the water again and get it upright  
and uh sailing was was kind of nice to learn the [maneuvers] you had to make to work your way down a lake or work back up against the the wind as it were [tacking] back and forth  
and uh more than once we'd get out there on a really [stormy] day  
and uh the storm or the wind was due to the front blowing  
and as soon as the front came over it was calm so you're out in the middle of nowhere with a paddle  
and you paddle your way back in and hope it doesn't start raining on you right away  
and that didn't always work  
we [oftentimes] got wet  
but uh it's it's a nice nice hobby to have  
nowadays i don't think i could afford the boat or the time nor do we live that close to a lake anymore  
so things change i guess  
what are your memories of boating  
or current  
right  
that's true  
yeah  
i remember learning how to ski oh  
i guess i was seven or eight years old  
and the lake that we learned on was the smaller of the two that we had access to  
and it was maybe fifteen twenty acres  
and it was uh it had a lot of uh turtles in it  
and i got all ready to go  
and i was down in the water and and set to go  
and uh and just as that boat took off a turtle bit me in the middle of the back  
it didn't hurt too much  
but it bit enough to where i let go  
and the boat went off without me  
and i reached back there and pushed him away and got out of the water a a while  
and and uh it didn't even leave a mark  
it was just a little [nibble]  
and so i told everybody what happened  
and they go oh yeah sure you know  
and so i get back down in there  
and and i'll be if he didn't do it again  
this time a little earlier and and i had let go before then and before they took off this time and and [swatted] him away  
so i moved over a a few feet in the water and got out of his little realm where he was living underneath the dock and uh managed to get up  
didn't go very far  
but i got up  
and it it was a nice uh nice long skiing career  
but now i've gotten to where skiing is just kind of wears me out more than it does thrill me  
i've i've uh done about all i dare do on skis you know skiing on one and jumping around here and there  
and i i i know how you can get injured doing much more than that  
and i just can't risk it right now being a head of the family and the [breadwinner] and all that  
just uh can't take the risk i did as a dumb teenager i guess  
so life just changes a little bit in that respect  
i'd kind of like someday to maybe end up on a pair of skis that that doesn't have a uh well  
what they call trick skis  
they'll allow you to ski backwards  
i haven't managed to get a hold on that uh craft yet  
but uh  
yeah  
it it would be kind of nice  
i hadn't quite figured out  
i don't have anybody to teach me either  
that's another little thing  
you need somebody to kind of tell you what to do  
but just from what i've seen you just kind of work your way up to it and turn around real quick you know grab the rope behind you and then just let go real quick and let it whip you around  
but uh i don't know  
maybe someday i'll i'll get back to that as after the kids are up and grown and the monies are there to get away for times on end weekend or something  
uh about the only memories that i have of boating uh  
my husband's family had a a motor boat uh when we got engaged  
and they took us out on the lake several times  
and uh i really did enjoy that  
i i don't know that i ever learned to drive it or anything  
but uh we did some water skiing of course and and uh driving around the lake in the boat and and just the basic safety rules and things i found real interesting uh you know  
they they just didn't patrol you like they did with the automobile or whatever  
the the laws were there  
and if you didn't [obey] them uh   you know there were a lot of accidents i guess  
but uh i found the motor boating was real fun  
oh  
that sounds like a real challenge  
uh_huh  
well my son  
supposed to talk about boats  
have you got a boat  
no  
i don't  
i i've had one for quite a few years  
but i i've not had one the last couple of years  
but it's something i've always enjoyed  
do you do you like   boating  
yeah  
but uh my children all have been grown for a few years  
and we were using it less and less and less  
so we decided to sell it  
and  
what's that  
oh no  
now i loved having a boat  
i loved having it  
no  
oh okay  
oh yeah  
yeah  
guy just you know  
he needs his weekends free or   to be able to use it or a day during the week or something  
but but no  
i guess for the cost of them you don't really  
it's hard to get  
i don't know  
i felt like i got my money's worth out of mine  
i had bought it used and kept it uh i don't know ten years and got within uh three hundred dollars of what when i sold it of what i'd paid for it and had it all those years you know  
so they hold their you take care of them they hold their value real well  
so you know you couldn't complain about that  
no  
no  
it was a uh big boat big ski boat type thing  
i had a hundred hundred sixty horse uh [murcruiser] in it  
[inboard] outboard  
oh i did fish out of it occasionally  
but i'm not too much of a fisherman  
and uh but i   but i did enjoy owning a boat  
would recommend it to anybody  
and uh uh but uh and now sailing i've never been sailing  
have you been sailing  
uh_huh  
i've never tried  
i've always thought i bet that would be more fun  
but i'd want to be with a skilled sailor  
but it  
yeah  
well i i've always thought i'd like to  
i've never wanted to bad enough to make any effort to do it you know  
and at this stage of the game i'm not that interested in it anymore  
we go out with friends on the  
we go to the lake just about every weekend down at mount vernon  
and   parents' next door neighbors have a big barge  
and we go out and take them out on their barge  
they're getting kind of old  
and they like us to take them out on their barge quite often  
so we   we get out on the water occasionally you know  
but uh uh anyway it's it's it's fun  
i i do enjoy the lake  
but uh once the children were grown  
and we'd go down there  
and i'd get the boat out on the you know saturday  
and we'd go for a ride and enjoy it so much  
it's such a pretty lake down there  
we'd enjoy it so much  
and i'd say well i'm going to leave the boat out because uh we'll probably do this again tomorrow  
it got to where the tomorrow the boat was still sitting there  
and we never did go out again  
and i'd have to go load it up the next day  
and  
uh mount vernon  
cypress springs  
cypress creek springs  
yeah  
it's down at mount vernon  
it's probably the prettiest lake in the state of texas  
yeah  
it's just a hundred miles from here  
no  
you go down i uh uh you uh you go down uh yeah thirty thirty  
it's east of here  
east of here  
hundred miles due east of here  
and uh  
did you  
where did you all move from  
oh did you  
how are you liking it  
well good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i think you'll like it better  
but of course it's hard when you don't have any family around  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
it's hard on the your folks too  
i know  
they're all yours  
and your wife's folks still live in colorado  
uh_huh  
uh there are supposed to be uh some people moving down here from colorado springs for t i  
yeah  
supposed to be  
do you work at t i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't either  
my wife does  
but it's a good company  
but anyway we're supposed to be talking about boats  
so back to boats  
so tell me the last time you went for a boat ride  
oh my gosh now that had to be that's boating  
that had to have been fun  
no  
i don't  
do you  
oh really  
yeah  
i love them  
well i heard that's the second happiest day of your life  
the day you sell your boat  
no  
i just heard that  
that's just a joke i guess  
first best day is the day you get and the day you get rid of it  
but   i'd like to have one  
i just don't know if i'd have the time to use it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
did you go fishing  
oh okay  
oh wow  
really  
yeah  
i like to fish  
uh yeah  
i've [sailed] some  
i just like uh fourteen foot sunfish  
nothing big  
yeah  
really  
well they offer classes out at uh ray hubbard  
yeah  
oh okay  
okay  
oh that's nice  
yeah  
where is that  
yeah  
okay  
that's south of here  
okay  
really  
huh what do you take i thirty five  
thirty  
oh okay  
all right  
yeah  
it just we just moved down here a couple years ago  
so  
colorado springs  
yeah  
oh we love it up there  
that's where i grew up  
so  
but uh we're we like it down here pretty good  
yeah  
we got two kids that are   under two  
and   it's kind of tough when my folks call and they want to see them  
yeah  
so  
oh really  
yeah  
that's right uh  
i don't  
no  
uh a friend of mine's dad is was a program manager up there  
and he just moved down here to  
what do you  
i guess it's  
he's working in mckinney  
okay  
well actually i went uh canoeing down the brazos this weekend  
it was fun  
it was fun  
mike i'm calling from dallas from richardson  
okay  
well good  
you know our subject is on boating and sailing  
and quite honestly with the exception of being involved in a part ownership of a little bass boat i have never really got into sailing or boating  
oh do you well great  
well that's neat  
right  
i've seen some nice nice [sailboats]  
the guy that used to live next to us in richardson before we moved twelve years ago or whatever he had a sailboat used to park it right in the uh driveway  
and it seemed uh  
i think it held probably uh  
it must have slept four people anyway  
right  
i   i understand  
i tell you   oh they are  
and you know we have a swimming pool at our house  
and i think of all the time now that my kids are gone and away and married and going to college or whatever that i put in there i just could not imagine a boat because i know it's a lot of maintenance  
oh gosh  
yeah  
you bet  
sure  
you bet  
i know my wife and i were first married here  
aunt and uncle  

aunt and uncle up in new york they kept a boat on jamaica bay  
and we used to go out with them and back then they had bought an older chris craft  
and we were involved every weekend in just uh  
as we visited we were involved every weekend in just helping them redo this and [refinish] that  
we just worked all the time  
but their boat slept about four people plus had a little kitchen  
it was sort of neat  
we  
but i think that was the last time we were really involved  
and that was twenty years ago or twenty five   years ago  
it is a lot of fun  
you bet  
i visited my cousin a couple of years ago my wife and i  
and our daughter and he had a place on lake of the ozarks  
and he had a boat  
and uh i never seen so many boats in all my life  
people actually park their car when they get to their place they're staying townhouse or condominium whatever they own  
and   they they go boat  
i mean they go  
if they want to go to the [lounge] to have a cocktail they use the boat  
and that was sort of neat  
that that that's true that's exactly how they do it  
they go to dinner that way go to all the restaurants  
and that was sort of a neat setup  
i enjoyed that  
we spent a week with them  
i enjoyed that  
i'm envious   i'm envious of people that have the big boats  
and uh  
you bet  
think  
you think you'd really enjoy it  
yeah  
oh i  
yeah  
that's great  
oh i know  
and putt putt  
sure  
well that's neat  
where do you work  
who are you with  
well good  
oh okay great  
i'm in addison here  
right  
i do uh quite a bit of sailing  
i own a sailboat that i   keep it parked up on the scout lot of my scout troop  
and we take it out  
and we do some teaching of sailing with the scouts  
but   i haven't really been taking it out   [recreationally] too much lately  
it's just   i don't have a trailer hitch on my car anymore  
so it's hard for me to get it somewhere  
but  
yeah  
this one is not that big  
it's a day [sailer]  
it does have a little kind of cabin thing that you can store things in  
but you couldn't really sleep in there unless you sort of stuck your body out the hole   back into the main part of the sailboat  
but   but it's  
they're  
they can be black holes to throw money into  
boats are kind of expensive to maintain  
especially a bigger one  
the bigger   they are if you get a big cabin [cruiser] or   or a big ski boat   power boat then there's always uh stuff to go wrong with it  
a sailboat at least doesn't have an engine to mess up  
but you still have to   worry with the [hull] and the condition of the [sails] and [spars] and [rigging] uh everything that's in it  
it takes a a pretty good amount of maintenance to keep one up  
but   well   it's a lot of fun i think   uh just from the standpoint of getting away from the dodge here  
and when you work hard and you're under pressure and everything all week long a boat can be a lot of relaxation uh to especially with a group of friends and   cook out or camp out or whatever uh or a cabin or something depending on how much you like to rough it  
but but it's uh  
use the boat   for transportation  
they just go across the boat and get a and tie it up and go in huh  
that would be fun  
i've just never  
i've never moved up to a really big class of sailboat  
uh once i get my son into and through with college he's going to be starting uh rice next year  
so he's going off  
but uh once i get to that stage where i'm not paying for something else   and uh i don't have to worry about a lot of other scheduling things where i've actually got the time to go out and enjoy it uh i might do something differently  
i might just donate my little one to the scout troop and let them   keep it and maybe consider getting a a better one for me uh  
yeah  
i think i would  
uh the sailing part of it i like because it's so quiet  
and if you get a big enough one then you've got a little motor on it also where if it's light wind you can still putt around a little bit and have fun  
or if or if the wind dies you're not stuck in the   middle of the lake  
i've  
with my little one i've been out there many times   on a calm summer day   where all of a sudden the wind stops  
and you're just stranded out there trying to pick up what little [gusts] you can to work your way back in  
and   and that gets hot and and [wearisome]   doing that  
and if you if you're a big enough boat to have the little [auxiliary] motor on there at least you can kind of drop the [sails] and   putt on back in  
but it's fun  
i own an insurance agency a managing general a [wholesaler] of insurance uh   out in addison  
and uh i'm a scout leader though  
so i'm i'm out with  
yeah  
all right  
yeah  
i'm kind of into it  
i'm uh kind of a sailor  
i'm up in minneapolis now  
but i was in florida  
so uh yeah  
i was kind of into it for a while there  
yeah  
for the most part  
yeah  
i had a little sail  
no  
what part of texas you from  
okay  
whereabouts is that  
okay  
all right  
is that right  
wow  
that's pretty wild  
okay  
so you got some lakes around you can do that on  
you do skiing and stuff  
or  
yeah  
all right  
yeah  
all right  
yeah  
that sounds good  
yeah  
we've uh our  
the snow up here is really kind of starting to melt now  
yeah  
not not not too many no  
but uh no  
i just got back from a weekend  
we went and uh had a kind of a picnic in the woods type thing  
it was pretty nice  
but uh no i i have uh i had a boat last summer that i took out a [catamaran] that i do did a lot of sailing on and stuff  
that's a lot of fun  
but uh my parents are pretty big [sailors] too  
they're kind of into it  
oh yeah  
i guess it's pretty uh fishing's a pretty big thing huh  
yeah  
yeah  
all right  
so where about in texas is that  
is that centrally located  
or  
uh no  
what what major city is nearby  
okay  
and that's south or north of there or something  
yeah  
okay  
oh okay  
all right  
well that sounds pretty good  
does uh  
i guess the weather  
does that stay pretty constant there  
or  
yeah  
okay  
well that's pretty temperate  
yeah  
that's not too bad  
but uh yeah  
have you done uh any other boating then  
or  
yeah  
oh that's great  
yeah  
i  
oh that's fantastic  
yeah  
i used to uh kind of be that way myself when i lived in uh north western florida in the panhandle  
i used to sail about every day  
i'd work go to work  
yeah  
it's a lot of fun  
it's uh  
especially if you get a a pretty fast boat  
like those catamarans are pretty fast  
you can actually  
well actually i i've known how to sail pretty much my whole life  
uh my family's pretty into it  
and uh i took sailing lessons when i was about six  
and then uh  
yeah  
it it's kind of a thing where you get the hang of it after a while you know uh just kind of get a feel for the wind and how it works and and the physics behind it  
so it's it's not too bad  
it's pretty easy to get the hang of i think  
and uh generally everybody i've i've known has kind of gotten into it  
but some people are more [motorboaters] you know   which is fine  
yeah  
yeah  
lot of people don't don't see the excitement in sailing  
but then again they may they may never have tried anything like uh [catamaran]  
and uh that's when you really start getting into speed you know  
you actually some catamarans you can actually pull people behind the skiers  
they get so fast you know  
yeah  
they get pretty quick  
but  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i haven't i haven't personally done that  
but uh the races  
i i work with a guy right now that uh races catamarans in the summertime  
and uh he's pretty [gassed] about it  
he's got a good uh  
well he uh he's from detroit  
so he usually goes on one of the great lakes i think and does his sailing uh  
for me i i go back to orlando uh in about a month and so down there basically just go to the coast  
we're about thirty miles from [coco] beach and the east coast  
and there's a lot of places there you can go you know  
so uh so that's a good thing  
but yeah so what do you do for a job  
oh really  
okay  
is that for t i  
or  
okay  
are they primarily electronic then  
okay  
well that  
right  
oh okay  
great  
yeah  
how do you like it down there in texas  
yeah  
oh no doubt  
okay  
i've never been to texas  
i've been to oklahoma  
but uh that's about as far as  
yeah  
okay  
well that's good because i didn't like oklahoma that well  
well we have  
we used to when i was younger  
we'd go every weekend  
but we haven't done whole lot of it lately  
yeah  
were you [sailboating]  
yeah  
well we don't get to do a whole lot of that up here  
just [motorboat's] all we  
uh nacogdoches  
that's between houston and dallas  
it's the oldest town in texas  
yeah  
we have uh lake sam [rayburn] out here and lake nacogdoches  
so we do a lot of boating on  
yeah  
yeah  
little bit  
just got through snow skiing  
yeah  
just came back from denver  
but  
yeah  
it it it was heavy when we were there though  
i didn't see any boats there though  
yeah  
uh all we all we have up here mostly bass boats  
uh_huh  
lot of lot of fishing going on up here  
it's uh well  
you ever heard of [lufkin]  
houston  
let me see  
houston's north  
dallas is south  
it's it's gets cold at night and then warm in the afternoons  
probably seventies eighties in the afternoon  
no  
i hadn't done any in a uh lately  
but that's all  
i used to uh have a friend that owned his daddy owned a boat shop  
and we used to when i was in high school we used to go out go boating every day just about  
and we had a different boat every day  
i'd like to do some sailing  
yeah  
what  
do if you get one like that do have somebody teach you that  
or they just  
yeah  
is it pretty easy  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's about all we have  
uh_huh  
i didn't know that  
that   that would be something  
uh_huh  
what kind of what lake do you all use  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i build [transformers]  
yeah  
no  
it's for cooper industries  
yeah  
well  
they have a you know worldwide  
but  
all we do here is make [transformers]   electronics and stuff like that  
it's real nice  
been here all my life  
yeah  
oh it's [oklahoma's] nothing like it  

of course my dad is a big sailor
so he likes to sail and he likes to do all that stuff
but it has been a long time since he has a boat
but we use to go to lake michigan and fix up you know or paint a boat that he was working on
so we use to do that
but i never [sailed] i was in from chicago
i grew up around there
and then uh moved down here about ten years ago
no
it was it was it was an old forty foot [yacht] that
no
it it well no
it it was never in the water
it was on dry dock so it was always uh kind of just sitting there
so
uh he fishes i don't do you
uh so did you from [docks] or from what
uh_huh
huh
nope divorced
yeah
so
uh yeah
we live sort of fifteenth and independence
oh yeah
are you by parks sort of
oh okay
so you are far up there
oh are you
oh
huh
and you moved here
how long ago
oh yeah
so you have been there about the same time we did
we moved from north dakota
i was married at the time to a coal mine
well he you know strip mining kind of thing soil engineer
but he uh moved down here with that
so we came down here
yeah
we were in north dakota with mining too
so
yeah
so that was real different
i have four
do you
shepherd
and wilson i have uh middle school
uh twelve ten nine and three
uh a seventh grader fifth grader fourth grader and third uh three
huh
then you have little ones
oh yeah
well just mine is almost four
all girls
girl
[meagan] yep [meagan] walls
so yeah
she's i know uh in band and that kind of stuff
so we are probably about the same age
oh really
do it against that team
cause our [meagan's] friend is on that team she tried out
but she didn't make it so
uh [mandy] uh uh no [nickols] [amanda] [nichols] she plays uh i don't even know which you know number
we haven't gone to a game
we are always going to a game
and we haven't
so
she plays the flute
yes
i sing that's what i started in college on yeah
yeah
so then i do [bells] we have [handbells] at church
and so i do that
and do that kind of stuff
but i just started on uh i don't know
now i am out of that whole field pretty much except for uh the kind of thing
yeah
that's about it
it's about all i have time for
so that's what i do
never
uh no
we go we have gone to lake lavon and uh what else is east hubbard lake ray hubbard i guess
so we have done those
and uh camped there
and that kind of stuff
and we have camped up on uh texoma
yeah
but i don't know that i have [boated] there
i don't have any friends with boats
well i will have to do a better [grouping] i know
cause i thought well gosh
well i was figuring you know uh as i was listening to this uh sailing
and i thought it was probably a
they are seventh grade girls
no
well where in california are you from
oh i know where san francisco sort of area
cause we have apartments there
i do i recruit nurses for a company called flying nurses and so we have apartments in walnut creek
okay  
the question was um what what is your opinion of youth uh spending a year or two in in public service  
yeah  
huh_uh  
would uh would you be more in favor of uh you know like a local uh  
my only experience with it i was in central america for a while   and uh in san salvador in el salvador  
for instance everybody had what they called there social year   that they had to put in  
and basically it was a uh repayment for for uh high school education  
and most of them joined the red cross  
and it was done internally  
i just  
there was very little external  
i think possibly what uh they're thinking about here more external peace corps   type things where we're sending people off shore  
huh_uh  
yeah  
i don't i don't know how the peace corps works  
i guess i was of age when the peace corps came in   and all that  
did you ever get any information on it like  
that's what i was wondering about was whether they actually  
yeah  
wasn't jimmy [carter's] mama that was in the peace corps  
where they couldn't do that  
yeah  
you might end up with a revolution  
i don't know which end though  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's been interesting though the kids that have been over you know coming back right now you know  
you wonder if being exposed to that for a while what percentage of them would actually say hey that's not a bad way to do it  
because from what i understand from some of the guys i know you know crime uh is punishable just almost uh instantly and   public  
yeah  
public hanging and this sort of thing you know  
so you don't have just a whole lot of   what we consider street crimes  
yeah  
well i guess that's uh the price of freedom i guess is a little anyway  
the uh uh the the public service thing again  
i i i guess in my own having had the whole three or four minutes to you know give it a great deal of thought you know   um i i think i agree with you one hundred percent about it being some sort of voluntary  
but when you do that then it becomes almost uh a  
or it can be  
you know there have  
people will kind of set up their own little club  
and uh but if you know  
yeah  
yeah  
well if they went [awol] what are you going to do  
shoot them  
put them in jail  
yeah  
right  
i know my dad always talked about uh  
he was in c c c during uh  
and he was uh a rock rib iowa type republican  
and the only good thing he could ever say about uh the whole roosevelt administration was uh civilian conservation corps  
because he was in it  
he thought that was great  
the rest of it was all hog wash  
but that was great  
yeah  
yeah  
the only  
well you know that brings up the interesting subject too you know  
what would you have who who who would determine what these people do  
you know if uh you know if it's run by the individual state  
you know like c c c was run by the army  
and in effect  
and the only opposition to it really was that it was you know starting some sort of a military elitist type you know special corps of [cadre] of people and that sort of thing  
and uh when the politics get real confusing  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
we've gotten to the point where you know if if well if the racial make up of the group was such and such you know they'd have to do that percentage of work and what is perceived to be that part of town and you know   that kind of thing  
oh yeah  
suppose uh well you know they had a group who were construction oriented  
and they went and they they built uh can't think of a good example a swimming pool or anything you know  
and one you can you can only build it in one place you know  
and know matter where you build it somebody else is going to scream well you didn't build one over here  
yeah  
i think uh  
oh boy  
it's one of those things on the surface you know it seems like a great idea  
it's like a joke i heard once about uh elephant foot soup you know  
it's easy to do once you find a elephant foot  
it's uh the logistics of the thing that uh   gets you going  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's it's just the you know  
here you are to the logistics of the thing again you know  
who's going to run it you know  
what  
how  
oh it's just so many  
like like i said at the beginning i've got so many connections with people in central america  
my daughter in law is panamanian you know  
and they have situations like like that down there   where they they have these the social in some sort of way  
if you want to go to school outside the country and many [salvadorians] did they'd go to school in cornell iowa of all places  
and when they came back they'd have to serve this this year  
and it turned out to be kind of a joke  
the ones i knew you know always chose the red cross because they didn't do anything  
and they had all kinds of uh things they could go into agricultural and you know   really good stuff  
but uh unless there was a flood or a fire or something like that red cross it was so many of them in it that at any particular chance your chance of having to do something was it was very slim  
and so  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
okay  
then that's uh kind of a private organization  
you know i'm i'm familiar with  
my instructor pilot was a mormon  
he was he was a good construction uh you know instructor pilot because he considered himself indestructible  
yeah  
right  
he felt that he really had an in  
so   you know things he would do with an airplane  
but any rate that's off the subject  
but i  
huh_uh  
i see how they were organized in   central and south america  
and uh   it's uh  
i think it would be a great idea  
i'm not sure about requiring it you know of people because people are going you know feeling [resentful]  
i don't know  
but i think it would be a great idea  
seems like there's so many kids that don't have any since of you know what they want to be or do  
or you know they could learn something and maybe help other people at the same time  
and we sure our country all countries sure need help  
so  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh really  
huh_uh  
yeah  
well i think that would be real interesting for people to do  
but i guess my concern about that would be the cost involved trying to train people in a new language and ship them you know to other countries  
and but i don't know  
if you did it internally and it was just people in your own country then maybe countries that are so poor that they wouldn't be able to really you know send children to do that  
i didn't know  
yeah  
i was too  
i thought seriously about joining at that time  
i thought it was a fantastic idea  
i sent off for stuff on it  
but i don't remember that much about it  
i know that they trained you in the language  
and um  
you actually got paid too while in the peace corps  
it wasn't much  
but i guess they you could put some money aside while you were there your expenses and  
yeah  
i think so  
yeah  
yeah  
but it might be interesting to see what would happen if you took kids at a and then took then to another country instead of having being exposed to all the drugs and violence and sex and everything here and take them to some other country that had different moral values like saudi arabia where they couldn't drink  
really  
yeah  
public hanging  
yeah  
yeah  
i've heard that like in china and stuff there is virtually no such thing as rape because if you rape somebody you'd be murdered you know on the you know street  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
people that might benefit most from it might not go in that situation you know like people that really are trapped in a ghetto or something like that  
might not go if it was voluntary  
but i don't know how they'd enforce it  
if it was  
yeah  
i don't know  
send them over to iraq  
have a vacation in iraq for a year  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
well it seems like it would develop pride you know in people if if it's in their own country  
it would certainly help them to appreciate some of the things that we have here and develop some pride in them if it was handled that way  
i i  
it would take quite a few people  
i think it might build jobs for people you know that were [administrating] and running and training and [coordinating] and all that  
so maybe that part of it would be helpful too  
i don't know  
like to have a volunteer come here and rake leaves and mow the grass and  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
really there could be um some [scandals] involved if you know it wasn't people that were really fair and   you know in a legal way or something  
they could send all the people over to uh you know one particular part of town or one particular project that somebody had paid somebody to you know get supported  
or  
yeah  
that could be a complicated too couldn't it  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
unfair or something  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
well it seems like there's there's a lot  
you don't hear much on the news about young people really you know wanting to do anything good or anything like that  
but you know i'm sure that there are a lot of young people out there that really do have good hearts and are willing to help and serve and that kind of thing  
i just i saw on the news the other night that the uh the little girl that used to be the littlest girl on the cosby show [kisha] [knight] [pullman] was starting a  
i guess now she's practically a teenager  
she started some type of um national organization for youth to volunteer to teach tutor other kids to read and you know do different service projects like that and trying to get youth more directed towards you know helpful things  
and i know everyone like in the high schools in dallas  
there's a couple high schools that have wanted to start like a um minority you know  
i think it was in a hispanic area  
they wanted to start like a club for the teenagers instead of they said all these gangs kids could join to belong  
but they didn't have anything positive the kids could be doing helping you know  
so they were trying to start that out  
so if there's people out there that are willing to you know kids that are willing to sacrifice their time and energy gosh we ought to use them   you know if their willing to do it  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh i see  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well we um belong to the church of jesus christ of latter day saints which is like the mormon church  
and um there there is men and also women  
women aren't nearly as frequent  
and also that have elderly couples once their kids have left that can volunteer to go on a mission  
and um they're all over the world  
and its incredible logistics  
i mean they have a training center where they teach them  
it's called the missionary training center in utah  
and they have   to be taught the language and [customs] and all those kinds of things  
and then they um you know go and actually live in that country for the the uh  
young men do it for two years and the young women for eighteen months  
right  
oh yeah  
he had a direct connection somewhere uh  
yeah  
yeah  
they they don't get paid for it  
and um but there is funding that comes  
they're supposedly saving up on their own  
and the church helps them out some  
but you know that it is incredible you know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i was thinking about whether or not we should have people uh be required to do public service for a year or two  
and i was thinking that you needed to put some waivers in there for the handicapped and also for people that had to stay home and maybe be wage [earners] for their family  
or they had somebody at home that was ill that they had to tend to  
i mean you can't make it everybody  
but then you need to make it sure that the rich people can't buy somebody off and and maybe send them in their places or get out of it some other way too  
and then we could maybe give [physicals] to the rest of the family members  
right  
give [physicals] to the rest of the family members  
and they all had to pass  
uh i thought it a good idea too though would be to extend this and make people that are accepting public welfare have to do something along this line before they got any money  
and uh if they did this maybe help them out in their college cost  
and maybe they could pay people for doing this at least something  
so they could [subsist]  
yeah  
yeah  
and you know all these old people they would get out of this right  
all the ones that are already retired  
so what we could do is take all the retired people that are going around in their big mobile homes and they could do public service all over the country  
i'm just teasing  
well i thought it would be a good idea if maybe you took some of the kids and had them go over to other countries  
and children from their countries came over to ours too a trade off  
yeah  
and other than that i can't think of any other ideas  
oh with w p a  
yeah  
and we're still using those things too  
we're still using those things  
they built [lodges] before too like at caddo lake  
caddo lake  
it's between texas and louisiana  
it crosses into both of them  
well it's real pretty  
it's like a swamp  
you know with all the spanish moss on the trees it's really it's eerie  
yeah  
i don't know  
where are you from  
virginia  
oh that's neat  
i talked to somebody from ohio the other night  
there is somebody  
and i uh i can't remember who it is  
but there's a really famous  
of [dang]  
i can't remember  
that proposed it  
i read something in people about it  
huh  
mitch snider i don't know who mitch snider is  
yeah  
what have your other topics been  
i had one that i hated  
it was what meal would you cook for uh uh special dinner  
how far can you go with that one  
right  
another one though that was good was uh what do you think about the social changes for the last ten twenty and thirty years  
and what do you think has caused some of the social problems  
that's probably the best one  
and we had to talk about air pollution too  
what do you think is causing it  
and what should we do about it  
uh_huh  
right  
because we don't have much coal  
in virginia  
yeah  
well how did you get into this program  
for t i  
no  
so does your company have something to do with t i  
huh  
uh_huh  
and do you know how much how long this is supposed to go on  
i don't either  
i mean it says just keep on until  
and they'll [notify] you  
at first i was thinking it was just a week because that's all it shows you know on the schedule  
but then it seems like it might be longer than a week  
so what do you think we're going to get  
what do you think we're going to get for this  
money  
prizes  
do you know anybody that's ever done this  
i know t i gets prizes  
i was led to believe that if you weren't t i that you get money  
i'm not t i  
huh_uh  
let's see one of my friends had a roommate that worked for t i  
and she saw this on her computer   and thought it might be neat  
so she ran off copies of the thing  
and i just signed up for it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and it shouldn't be too good right now anyway because they've been laying off so many people  
yeah  
really  
so we're [footing] the bill on our taxes  
okay  
well thanks a bunch  
we'll talk to you later  
bye  
well i'm going to try to clean up the house after my two children for about an hour see if we can walk around  
bye  
okay  
well go ahead  
i'll let you start  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
or it could be like the draft where you know before they draft you they uh you get a physical anyway  
so when they send you a draft notice and then they give you a physical  
and if there's nothing physically wrong with you then you're drafted  
it doesn't matter how rich you are  
that would be good  
what did you say  
oh yeah  
uh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
well that's true  
america's paying all this money to have other people give uh aid to other countries  
so they could be paying their own people and training their own people at the same time  
because actually when you when you do uh service overseas you end up learning something usually that's that's really useful plumbing or farming or or something like that  
so you're really learning a skill  
what did you say  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i think well that's probably the idea  
i don't know whether the idea is to be within the country or outside the country  
yeah  
that would be neat  
yeah  
sort of like an exchange program  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that'd be sort of neat  
i like the idea of uh being uh a mandatory thing for welfare  
course that's what um  
that's sort of like what truman had  
or was it roosevelt  
i can't remember um  
with the big  
yeah  
getting people uh  
the the work program and all the all the make work jobs  
that was sort of public service in a way all the highways they started building  
what did you say  
yeah  
that's true a lot of them are still out there  
like all these wonderful highways in west virginia and no one knows why  
lake what  
caddo lake  
no  
i've never heard of it  
oh  
oh okay  
real pretty like a swamp  
oh yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
i been uh  
i got uh talked to someone else before that was a uh a texan  
but i guess that's uh that's what we're going to have  
this is uh a t i experiment to see how talk  
texans talk to other people  
uh virginia  
oh yeah  
it is neat to get other people especially since you got other uh ideas about how people uh how people react to things and stuff especially when it comes to um social services  
uh uh i'm glad they have a lot of uh um you know topics on social services because like this thing this is a pretty good idea  
i didn't even know if they were thinking about it  
i wonder if they thought about it themselves or whether someone somewhere is really thinking that uh it would be a good idea to have everybody spend some time in public service  
politicians pushing it or uh   or mitch snider   or mitch snider  
oh okay  
well see that's a d c thing  
mitch snider is the the advocate for the homeless that uh he he's said it out here in washington  
but he started the um uh the movement for creative [nonviolence]  
yeah  
he started that  
and that that was basically a you know donate time and money to uh help the homeless  
but uh   uh  
the other topic was like i said uh something about politicians  
i can't remember exactly what it was  
it was real general statement  
gee whiz  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that would be neat  
i'd have to basically say my birth  
uh_huh  
well that would be sort of interesting because then you get people from other countries i mean other parts of the state you know  
of course pittsburgh would say you know oh find the better cheaper ways of burning coal you know  
cleaner ways of burning coal  
and people in the south would say don't burn coal you know  
oh we have a lot of coal  
but uh it's uh it's a dirty fuel that's for sure  
excuse me how did i get into it oh  
i'm an electrical engineer here in virginia  
no  
uh no  
they  
i'm in a [telecommunications] company  
and they uh sent it out in our bulk mail so that if any engineers wanted to participate you know  
um not really  
i mean no more than any other company you know  
we buy their parts just as much as anybody else  
but uh no no real association with t i other than being in the same industry electronics industry  
they just uh they just sent out a letter to everybody they do business with saying that you know if you're interested we're doing a study  
and and since  
i don't know  
no  
i don't  
right  
what do you think  
what  
get  
oh i don't know  
get your own you're going to get you own t i seven thirty two or something  
oh i didn't hear about that  
probably for t i employees  
oh your not  
you don't work for texas instruments  
oh okay  
oh  
oh  
oh oh that's a neat idea  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well he's gotten a good mix  
i was saying because i've  
like i said i heard some other people talking that they've talked to different people in different states and stuff  
that's good especially since you call that one eight hundred number  
so so probably knock t i profits margin way down  
yeah  
right  
this is probably some government study program  
okay  
okay  
well i enjoyed talking with you  
i'm going to save my two year old from the pile of grapes she's diving into  
okay  
we'll i'll talk to you  
bye bye  
okay  
uh what do you think about uh the idea of having volunteer service for everyone  
well are you doing any kind of volunteer work now  
what about when when would people do it when they finished high school  
i think particular boys that the maturity  
in fact i wasn't very mature when i left high school  
and i think there's a there's a real challenge there  
there's also this this issue of of uh you know whether you're really ready  
and i think it gives a different perspective  
the only [complication] is is is how do you fund something like this  
yeah  
i think the mormon church has sends out missionaries that  
that's uh it's interesting  
it gets them away from home and and gets them to do something useful  
although the kids today though it it seems that almost that their concern for money  
i we were doing some investigating colleges and said the kids are much more interested today in in trying to find a job study something that will give them a job as opposed to be curious be curious  
as to if  
if there was if there was mandatory you could choose the option of either a mandatory military service or voluntary  
do you think that would be reasonable  
well but the the issue of of of which  
what what would what would you find what would you have them do  
you know there are a lot of people around with  
there's a lot of unemployment right now  
what would you have these people do if they were brought in  
well yeah  
or say say the volunteer  
say that   say that it was mandatory  
yes  
my father was in the c c c  
well it seems that there's some things like the uh the programs at least just go around and and and clean up streets and and and pick up trash and even aluminum cans and some of these kinds of things  
yeah  
in fact we we helped with uh-oh help to help humanities  
and that was a that was a good experience  
but you take the kids out  
and and a lot of the buildings in downtown areas that that either need [demolishing] or need fixing up  
so  
it would be a good idea  
uh we've been doing this three or four minutes  
i think that uh  
do you have any other further comments  
well it was good talking to you betty  
have a good night  
uh i think that uh really it wouldn't hurt most of the young people of the country to have to go and do voluntary service  
uh and you know i mean   there have been so many people that have done it  
and i've talked with several  
and i think they've gotten a lot out of it  
not right now  
but i have done uh red cross work  
and uh i've taught c p r training  

i think probably as soon as they finished high school it would be ideal because a lot of times if they go straight into college i think they're going in too quick  
but  
right  
uh  
i i think if you've been out of school a year year and a half before you start to college you appreciate college more   than someone that just goes right straight into college  
well a lot of parents fund their children  
there are uh some groups that have their children you know go away for a year  
even the religious organizations  
right  
and the parents fund them for the whole year year and a half that they're gone  
i think it would  
in in israel the even the women are are required to to be in the military for a certain period of time  
uh i was in the military  
and i personally feel if if they have the draft that they should draft women as quickly as they do the men  
what into the service  
or  
well i   i i think that they ought to have something for the the unemployed in a voluntary field like the uh  
i don't know if you know remember about the w p a  
he was in that  
i mean you know uh it's not the best thing in the world  
but uh it gave them something to do  

or go into the the more depressed areas and help repair the houses  
uh_huh  
no  
not really  

okay  
i'll talk to you later  
bye  
so what do you think  
should they uh should young americans be forced to do a year of service  
yeah  
i think something like the peace corps is a bit harsh  
no kids  

yeah  
i think it's a little harsh to say that they should have to spend a year or two  
i i i'd force them  
i think that uh i think it would be i think i think a lot of kids actually do a lot of work  
and no one just realizes it  
right  
exactly  
i was a i was a boy scout  
as part of being a boy scout you had to do you know projects all throughout  
and then to become   an eagle scout you have to spend a do a [yearlong] project  
yeah  
i think i i now i think people generally volunteer  
that there's no problem with getting them to   do stuff  
well we have a funny commercial around here  
it says something like if people were to give five   hours a week or five percent of their salary   we could they could solve all the world's problems or something  
so   i guess if we all give five hours a week or five percent of our salary we could uh  
or just or just gave or or or just forced our kids just to to force kids to serve for uh parents i guess  
substitute  
my my   yeah  
my kid will do four or five hours this week for me  
no problem  
uh_huh  
i've seen that  
yeah  
they they   just started trying to get them something together like like that around here from for from the community because uh we had a big ice storm   uh very very recently  
you don't sound like you're in the north  
you sound like you're in the south somewhere  
yeah uh  
i'm in uh new york  
upstate new york  
yeah  
and uh  
long way uh  
and we just had a really big ice storm  
and basically half the trees in in our city i'm in rochester which is uh   right upstate half of the trees in the city uh are no good anymore  
that's how bad it was  
everything is just down everywhere  
you know we had three hundred thousand people without power  
you know it was  
and you know and and they and we didn't have power for a week  
and there are still people who don't have power  
oh yeah  
it's been it's been it's been ten days already  
and there are still something like ten thousand people without power  
and were officially yeah  
and we're officially in a state of emergency  
funny thing is the news the national news how they covered it uh  
yeah  
i think it made about three minutes on one of the national news stations or something  
and   and we've been in a state of emergency for over you know for ten or eleven days  
you know  
we just got our phone back today uh  
and and they're you know putting out ads now for people to come volunteer   or to have their organizations come   volunteer to help clean up the streets  
because we have you know  
everywhere that a tree is down people need help  
and   we're all all a lot of older folks need help getting   their yards cleaned out because they can't afford to pay anyone  
and they   and and they certainly can't carry it themselves  
and  
so  
oh that's great  
and is that supported by all donations to the church and so forth  
or  
oh so he  
that's real nice  
right  
that   that's real good  
and i and i bet it gives you a real good feeling   to be doing that  
yeah  
that's that's uh that's real good  
we had uh we had organizations like that in college you know  
we had a community service group in college that had all sorts of different groups  
and some did like that some did elderly visits  
some did uh some did you know big brother big sister stuff like that  
and i'm convinced that that that at least twenty five percent of our school participated in some sort of a some sort of group you know   activity like that  
you know twenty five i don't know twenty five percent  
yeah  
my wife was big in that  
and she thinks yeah  
twenty five percent  
it it was a small school  
but uh  
yeah  
but i mean a a a lot of people would get involved  
and you know because there were all different   organizations to do  
there was big brother big sister  
they had a yearly auction  
they had a dance [marathon] for charity or to to support that   group  
such that you know lots of people got involved that way  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
neither do i  
i think it should be completely optional  
and   you know  
yeah  
they're not worth a year  
or some people just just can't even afford it   you know whatever  
i mean   the peace corps doesn't pay very well you know  
people get shipped off  
and then you know and then and then their parents  
i have a uh a a friend whose whose son is in the peace corps in guatemala or daughter is in the peace corps in guatemala right now  
and you know he and his wife just went off to visit her  
and you know i know i could never afford to go visit a kid in guatemala  
you know so  
so i think you know  
and and and the kid's certainly not making much money  
so i can see where that that   may be a problem  
just take off a year  
yeah  
i don't  
yeah  
yeah  
well neither can i  
so i i i i i i   did my service before  
and i'll do my little community service throughout but never   never for a year again  
so so i guess our vote is no  
well it's been nice talking to you again  
well yeah  
we're we're slowly getting everything back together again  
you know it it's taking time  
but   everything you know  
we got lucky  
we had no damage to our house or anything  
so   the rest will just have to come with time  
well good luck to you too  
bye bye  
i don't i don't think they should be forced  
but i think they should be i guess encouraged to to do some kind of public work i guess to just to get them i guess involved with community maybe you know  
just community activity  
if nothing else see how the city works stuff like that  
yeah  
i kind of i think so too  
i think that's a bit dramatic  
but but other than that i think it's it's a good idea to get them involved in city and community activities and you know like the uh shelters and uh that kind of thing   helping out uh volunteering i guess if they can  
yeah  
your right  
i do too  
i think they start out young like in uh girl scouts and boy scouts   doing  

right  
that's see that's what we did in girl scouts  
and that got you involved real good  
and it i think it starts kids out on the right track  
and then it lets them decide if that's what they enjoy doing  
something  
yeah  
i do too  
i think i think a lot of people a lot more people volunteer than than uh than we than get credit for it as you know like in hospitals and uh and the shelters and stuff like that  
and even if it is a couple times a year like at the holidays i mean at least they're getting out and doing it and you know helping helping out  
i think that's good  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there you go  
right  
yeah  
it sounds pretty good  
that sounds good  
i've noticed a lot of uh different organizations in our community uh pick up like on the highway and stuff  
and i think that's pretty neat  
they uh go along and have so many miles i guess of highway to take over  
and they clean it up  
and keep it clean  
i think that's i pretty good idea  
and i think you know again  
i've seen a lot of young kids doing that  
and i think it gets them prepared to to learn how to volunteer as they get older  
i know i did you know in girl scouts and everything  
and after that in high school i would volunteer at a nursing home and stuff like that  
so  
oh  
yeah  
i'm in texas  
where are you at  
new york  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh no  
oh  
golly  
are you serious  
oh my god  
how do they live  
yeah  
i haven't heard a thing  
lord  

well that's good  
that's great  
right  
yeah  
right  
right   that's one thing we do at our church is uh we have a group called hearts and [hammers]  
and we go along  
and i'm really not sure how we find the individuals  
but we find older people that cannot afford to fix up their homes that desperately need it  
and uh we go along with all the material and in one day more or less go in and say roof paint fix whatever we can  
yeah  
and spend a day doing  
that's really neat  
i mean it's not a lot because you're just doing a house at a time  
but you know every little bit helps  
uh yeah  
they uh luckily we have a a man who owns a building company  
so he [donates] a lot not everything but a lot of the material  
then what he doesn't donate we just go out and buy  
yeah  
and it's not you know we don't promote it a lot outside the community because we don't want recognition for it you know   so much as we just want to help people out  
so it's real neat  
it's   yeah  
it's   like i say  
it's not a lot  
but it helps people  
like this last couple we helped you know they were in their eighties  
and she was bedridden  
and i just you know just tears your heart out to   to see this kind of thing  
and you know if you can do any a little bit it helps  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
gosh  
that's great  
that's a lot  
that's that's a lot of kids though  
oh well   still that's a you know that's a good chunk of kids  
yeah  
yeah  
that's neat  
that's great  
that's great  
but uh like i'll agree with you though  
i don't think they should have to do a year  
yeah  
i don't think that some people i don't think have uh a year in them to volunteer if you know what i mean  
they're not worth it  
right  
oh yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
oh  
i couldn't either  
i couldn't either  
right  
right  
yeah  
i just know one person that's in the peace corps  
and i mean she's a teacher and and just wanted to do it  
she'd been a teacher for a while  
just decided she wanted to do it  
so i mean i'm grateful for people like that  
but   i don't see how they can just   yeah  
just   pick up and head on out  
i wish i could do something like that  
but i can't  
so  
right  
that's the way i am  
i know the feeling  
that's right  
we're against it  
that's right  
you too  
and i hope everything works out up there  
yeah  
good  
good  
that's great  
yeah  
well good luck  
thanks  
bye  
well how do you feel about it  
no  
the the only people i know that have done anything remotely like that are people that have gone to be missionaries  
and that's only because i went to baylor  
and a lot of students from baylor go and and serve as missionaries during the summer  
but i think i think that's a terrible idea  
that's like forcing someone to donate to a charity  
i mean and it's nice to to try to teach young people some some uh uh civil uh consciousness but forcing them to to donate basically their time and efforts  
you have to  
i don't either  
i don't either  
i was i almost hung up because i thought well gosh i don't i don't really have an opinion except for no  
i think that's dumb  
but uh  
i've been here for um just almost well no almost four years  
and i lived with dana in school  
that's how we know each other  
uh_huh  
last weekend we went to six flags saturday  
had a good old time  
well back to the topic at hand  
what other types of community service would they be talking about  
i mean the the recording mentioned the peace corps  
yeah  
i mean i'm all for [donating] my time to worthy causes  
like i do some volunteer work here and there  
and every once in a while i'll do uh a uh local big brother big sister thing  
or i'll go you know do a  
yeah  
yeah  
i couldn't possibly commit a year or two of my life to to go do something  
no kidding  
i have this thing against bugs too  
and seems to me like the peace corps  
they send you someplace that there's a lot of bugs  
yeah  
have to live in a shack with no air conditioning and no medicine and no anything  
i'd probably catch a terrible disease and die  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i don't know either  
growing up all i knew was you go to high school you you know you work you go to college you get out of college and you get a good job and you work  
and and none of this you go spend two years in the peace corps to to broaden your horizons  
uh_huh  
oh  

kind of like joining the military  
well i mean in that respect a lot of people join the military to to grow up   and to decide what they want to do  
and the peace corps or something like that is probably useful as as that kind of a time  
uh_huh  
i'd probably have a different perspective if i actually knew someone that had gone into the peace corps  
but i don't  
and none of my  
oh that's okay  
and none of my really close friends in college went off to be missionaries or anything  
so i don't really know anyone first hand that's that's committed a chunk of their life to do service work  
everybody i know has been  
well i'm going to go get a good job and make some money and buy a nice car  
so  
yeah  
i certainly didn't mark off anything to get this one  
i i can't imagine  
and the [switchboard's] been down for several days  
and the last time i called it before it went down i had this topic  
and i didn't feel like talking about it  
so i hung up  
and i guess they they keep you on the same topic until you actually talk to somebody about it  
yeah  
i know  
oh probably five or six  
not a whole lot  
yeah  
did dana sign you up for this  
yeah  
that's  
she stuck my name on some list  
so they mailed me the information that i filled out  
um i've talked about camping with someone  
i've talked about the weather  
that one was interesting because i talked to a man in in washington d c  
and it was hot here  
and it was snowing there  
so that was pretty interesting  
and i talked to someone about the uh the uh education system  
i forget exactly what the focus was on that one  
but that was fairly interesting  
and i talked to somebody about credit card usage  
and i talked to this person who i gathered from speaking to her that that she and her family just didn't have much  
and they didn't have much credit available to them  
and so she basically didn't use credit cards and didn't know very much about them and how they work   and and how you can use them to your advantage and and how you know you you can do certain things with them  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's always a good plan  
i can't think of anything else that i've talked about  
all that most of the ones on the list i checked off stuff like football and and stuff that i can i i would enjoy talking about  
and i haven't gotten a one of them yet when i've called  
oh how funny  
uh_huh  
i had to talk to someone about hobbies  
and the switchboard called me  
so i was caught a little off guard  
and i couldn't think of anything at all  
so i started making stuff up  
i told this woman that my hobby was gardening  
and i can't even   i can't even grow an ivy  
my grandfather gave me a plant once  
that told and he told me when he gave it to me that it was impossible to kill  
you could freeze it  
you could you could dry it out  
no matter what you couldn't kill it  
well i killed it pretty quick  

well uh i don't have any strong convictions about it  
that's for sure  
um i know i haven't done any peace corps service  
and i don't know anybody in my immediate family that has or you know has ever even thought about it  
do you know uh do you know anybody that's been it  
yeah  
yeah  
it's definitely up to the person uh  
so i'd have to say that uh it you know the people who do it well some feel it's rewarding  
i don't know you know  
but uh   i don't know how we got the subject  
i have nothing to say about this  
uh_huh  
well how long you been in san antonio  
um okay  
oh okay  
and uh you you were just up there then huh  
oh okay  
well that's good  
well it sounded like i mean this is like major long term commitment like a year   or six months  
or so you're looking at the peace corps or sabbatical maybe  
or you know i don't know  
i mean but uh  
uh_huh  
but that that time is [minuscule] compared to what what   they were referring to  
yeah  
yeah  
they couldn't cover my hourly rate  
i couldn't afford it  
but uh  
yeah  
africa  
yeah  
well i doubt that  
but   you know how it is  
i i mean it would it would have to be tough going somewhere you don't know the culture usually i guess  
i think that maybe that's why some people do it is uh to see the other cultures or you know and some of that  
but uh to do that i don't know  
i'd have to be  
i don't know  
uh_huh well you know uh i know american express  
i'm i'm working at american express now  
and they  
after a certain amount of years of service these employees can take off like six months or something for some type of sabbatical or some you know some something like that  
and they're allowed to take that time off and then come back where they left off  
so it is something that i think uh you know even the larger organizations will support  
uh it's it's really for the community to give you know to to give back to the community type of thing  
i don't know  
it's for i think at the same it's for some people to you know help them grow in other areas  
yeah  

yeah  
maybe a little bit in that perspective  
but uh and a lot of people have gone in the military i mean you know when they're in the college  
sometimes it's to help support college you know   the money  
uh others people don't know what they want to do  
but as far as uh you know the peace corps i guess i suppose there's a few people that have done it at that point in their lives  
but i think a lot of it's you know when people get older they'll do something like that  
yeah  
i i i don't  
didn't mean to cut you off there  
i  
yeah or or try to make a living  
but uh  
yeah  
i i have no i don't know anybody that's done that either  
so i i  
it's interesting we got this topic because i i i don't know what i marked off to get this  
but  
so you had the same one huh  
oh well well you'll you'll get it over with here  
how many times have you talked  
yeah  
oh i've done maybe four or five  
well she just sent me the information out  
i i got a hold of it you know  
i just sent it back in  
and  
what other topics have you had  
great  
great  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
i always i use everything with my visa  
and i pay it all off  
so that's a good deal for me  
i get free money for thirty days  
that's the way i use them uh  
i try i try to make sure i don't get in debt  
so  
i had uh  
let's see  
i've had fishing  
and uh i can't remember me and i think me and dana had football  
yeah  
we did  
yeah  
so we talked about the cowboys a little bit  
and i'm out here in phoenix  
so we talked about cardinals  
and so so that one was all right  
and then what else did i have  
i think i had some other uh like staying in shape or working out  
this other guy i got this guy from new york  
so  
and you've probably never [gardened] in your life  
yeah  
i don't have too much of a green thumb either  
so  
i do have one plant here  
it's been hanging out for a while  
but i think it's one of the easiest plants  
i can't i don't know the name of it  
but i'm not too much into  
all right  
uh_huh  
yes  
all all young americans they did not [specify] you know exactly what young means  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you're probably right  
two years might be a little too long  
that's right  
that   that would be the problem sure would  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
or maybe offer them you know some sort of an incentive to do it   uh you know college credit you know something you know  
i'm not sure what  
but  
i'm not sure they need to be you know paid you know  
a super do salary of any kind  
but that that kind of takes away from public service  
but just you know to receive a letter in the mail   that says you know you need to report somewhere by next monday you know you need to report somewhere by next monday you know  
i'm not sure that would be a [terrifically] good idea  
i'm not either really  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
absolutely  
they need   young families whatever  
they just couldn't you know take off to do that  
oh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it sure would  
it would have to be a lot of you know thought given to something like that i would think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
i'm not even really sure at this point in time you know what what programs are out there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
like maybe if if there was something they could do in their own own in their own town or city   yeah and not have to pull up roots and you know go somewhere half way around the world or something  
that's right  
yeah  
that's that's true too  
that's true too  
yeah  
yeah  
me neither  
and you wonder you know what kind of quality job would they do you know   just sit around for their year  
or would they really you know make a contribution of some kind  
yeah  
it's tough  
it's tough  
yeah  
yeah  
i i'm not sure either  
but i think there would have to be a lot more you know information you know [disseminated] before you say   let's do this you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
that's a real waste too  
it really is  
i don't really see the emphasis on things like peace corps like we you know we saw back i guess in the carter administration  
that was that was a big thing with him  
and i guess even back to kennedy as a matter of fact i guess kennedy may be the one that actually started the thing or was you know really interested in things like that  
i just don't hear much about it anymore  
like i say i don't even know what programs are are even ongoing now you know  
anyway it's a tough question  
okay  
well thanks for your time  
i enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
take care  
bye bye  
okay  
um i i understand that it's being proposed as a requirement   for uh young people to be to go into public service  
i think  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that it probably would be a a good program  
i think probably two years is too long  
i think maybe a year would be   the longest  
yeah  
and there will be a lot of rebellion in that  
and when you get people who have no desire to be there in the first place   i don't think that they're going to be serving anybody  
yeah  
so i think it would be a good thing though   to encourage other people who aren't even aware that they can do such a thing   to get out there and do so  
yeah  
right  
right  
college credit is a good idea because  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
they probably couldn't do anything monetary  
but i think giving   giving some kind of college credit  
no  
i don't think so either because a lot of people um depending on how the public service programs are set up  
and i'm not that familiar with them to know  
but you know if a a lot of people flat can't afford to  
you know  
and most kids these days have gotten themselves into uh financial situations   where they have to be working all the time  
so it's it's a really tough question  
that's right  
yeah  
and if you put them in public service right out of high school then that that [postpones] their college   for a year  
and that would upset a lot of people too   because they just want to get on  
yeah  
i you know i think it would be good for a lot of people to get involved in that kind of program  
but i i think it can't be something that's mandatory  
it has to be something that's voluntary you know which is pretty much the way it is now  
they might  
yeah  
and that's the other thing is that you know instead of making it mandatory they maybe need to publicize it a little bit better   and uh you know go to the schools and do programs   and tell them that we need your help and   you know uh volunteer for such and such a time  
and you've a choice of where you want to go  
and and that way handling it that way they could probably get some results out of it  
yeah  
in their own community  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
most of them probably wouldn't do something like that   although there are a lot of kids who would do it just to get away from their parents  
but they would have to be supported in some way  
and i'm not sure that those programs are available to do that  
right  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
it is tough  
it's  
and i don't know who's even proposing it   or or how they plan on implementing it   if they do  
yeah  
yeah  
i think going to the schools would be the easiest for them  
you know it be  
it wouldn't take up much much it would take up more time than anything  
but it wouldn't take up a lot of money  
they wouldn't have to spend money advertising and things like that  
you go to school  
and you have a kind of a captive audience  
get them all in the auditorium  
and you you give them your speech and maybe a little slide show or something  
and i think that they could get some results from that   because there are a lot of people who are volunteer and community minded  
but they don't know where to go to to   to do anything  
yeah  
it is  
it really is  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't either  
that's one  
yeah  
it is a tough question  
sure  
same here  
you too  
bye  
so what do you think about a year or two of public service  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you know i   i really agree with you  
um i uh though i've never done that myself i i'm was a basically an education major when i graduated from college  
and i accepted a job that at the time was just slightly above the poverty level to teach to um very rural children in a very low income district  
and i spent a year teaching there  
and i think it was probably one of my largest eye opening experiences because i come from nice middle class white suburban home  
and i did it um for one reason i wanted  
i was working on a masters degree  
so i wanted to stay close to where i was working on a masters degree but also because i just thought that it would be interesting to live some place else so totally different than my own up bringing  
and i  
it changed it probably changed my political views  
it changed my understanding of the world around me  
and i think um in fact if i had to do it all again i you know  
after that you know you never think of it because i guess because i paid for all of my college education myself i never thought about doing that because i had all these college loans i'd started paying back  
um so that was that was one reason why i never considered it  
but now that i'm further along and i'm still paying these college loans   i i think realistically you know you can have your college loans delayed now because i had them delayed because i'm back in graduate school at thirty years old  
um i had them delayed because i'm back in graduate school and on that form it says if your joining the peace corps you can have them delayed  
and i thought that was you know very interesting  
and i i would have thought of that earlier  
i probably would have done you know just like is that is this is that the mormon church   that does that  
because one of my neighbors uh did that in pittsburgh from pittsburgh  
and i thought you know that really  
now that i'm thirty years old i think that one or two years out of my life would have  
probably like you said to be able to travel some place else whether it be the united states or outside the country   i think it would have been a very good um experience for me  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i think you know we have such a need now you know  
i taught you know  
i i think i was paid uh about nine thousand dollars to teach for the year  
and i worked in a very rural school district  
and i i one of the things i taught was a computer class  
and these kids um you know every girl i taught except for one was pregnant  
many of the boys in the room had children  
and they were they were high school [juniors]  
and i just  
there you know they came from poverty  
they were going to condition in poverty  
and it was it was the school district couldn't hire many people  
it was very difficult for them to hire  
and i think you know in the sense that aspect of public service for education in some of the inner cities   for um just social workers in some of the inner cities and some of the rural areas where they just need advice on medical um things   i think it's a really good idea and even if it is overseas  
see i never  
i i tell you sometimes i worry about things over [seas] because we have such problems right here in our own country  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it would also help them if they then went on to college  
i know that my first couple of years of college were um uh probably too carefree at the   beginning  
and then at the end i had to be too serious  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
that's right  
i  
yeah  
i think i think this was this was a very interesting topic   uh because it's something that you know we don't talk about in this country probably enough  
uh you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
oh i think it is  
i really think  
i think um people  
you should  
i you know  
the kids today i teach  
i spend a lot of my time teaching college students  
and um i find great [disgust] in them in their in their um their self [centeredness]   and their [inability] to understand um [multicultural] or [multiracial] situation  
and i really you know  
they don't understand uh how other people live um  
they don't understand  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's uh just having a good time  
i uh  
a friend of mine is a psychologist  
and he always [refers] to it as short term pleasure oriented  
i guess he's a technical aspect he likes to apply to it   you know  
today's young people are short term pleasure oriented  
and everything has to be an immediate reward  
and it has to be fun  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well they say  
i think i um have read recently that uh the bush administration has increased the funding for the peace corps  
uh_huh  
because i guess because of the changes in eastern europe uh they've increased funding for the peace corps  
some of the i guess it's some of the peace dividend in the sense you known  
when they're decreasing some of the military spending   some of that money has gone into the peace corps  
and some of the are the overseas programs uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's very true  
you know how many  
is it they say we have so many lawyers in this country  
and i guess i i live near washington being in in baltimore it's something like one in four people   in the washington   area are lawyers  
and and i just sort of think that's ridiculous  
yeah  
with   with the great needs that we need today in science and biology and uh you know the the problems we have with aids and cancer   and and how come everybody is a lawyer you know you know  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you saw   statistics that lawyers and doctors make the most money in the long run  
yeah  
that's true  
that's interesting uh_huh  
okay  
hey  
thanks so much for the conversation  
well thank you very much  
bye bye  
well i know it's hard for young people to think about giving up their years you know their carefree years  
but people that i have known that have done that like from other countries especially   from germany and [finland] um they are just they have such a better more mature outlook on life  
and i think they're better people   because of it  
they're much more responsible  
i know um the church that i go to um the young men give two years of their life when they turn nineteen you know  
they're encouraged to do that missionary work  
and i i really believe that the people that do that are better people that make our   society better  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think so  
it puts you out on your own  
and   and in a time after high school um there's kind of a [selfishness]  
i mean teenagers in our country are kind of kind of a year that parents don't look forward to and   and things like that  
and i think that it would help people to become   less self centered   and to be more responsible when you're out on your own trying to um   thinking less of your own needs but   of other people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yes  
it would really um  
and i don't  
the people that i've known like from germany and [finland] that have done that   are they do military service which you know   i don't exactly recommend  
but still they have benefited from it  
and um you know although i wouldn't want it to make people to go off to the military voluntarily  
but   it's it has helped them  
and they are just a lot more mature   than the average student  
and  
uh_huh  
well that's right  
a lot of people they [flunk] out  
or they get   they just get so excited to be away from home   they just spend all there time partying  
and   they do a lot of things to themselves that that we really don't want our young people to be doing  
and  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  

because we're so we love our freedom   and our freedom of choice   and um having people  
but you know our  
like in our church it it is your free to do that or not  
you're encouraged to do it because um you know it it helps you  
and of course we think it's helping other people  
and so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and they're [preoccupied] with   drinking  
uh_huh  
and  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's really true  
yeah  
well i i don't know how that would ever happen here  
but at least um  
oh really  
uh_huh  
huh  
well i have seen a big change i think in high school kids that my relatives   and friends that um i know when i was in high school i had an idea of what i really wanted to do with   what my what i was going to study  
and at least i had some interest in  
a lot of the youth that i come in contact with are they say oh i want to be a doctor i want to be a lawyer  
why  
because they make a lot of money  
and they don't have a goal  
they don't have a goal  
they don't have an interest in their own field of study  
they're just looking what's going to pay the biggest cash  
uh_huh  
area   yes  
yes  
there's just too many people  
uh_huh  
that's right  
not enough people want to do that to   for uh because of a service that they could provide  
you know if you want to be a lawyer because you know that you can provide a service that people need   because you have to have lawyers in this country um but if you're just doing it because you think that's the best way to   be rich  
uh_huh  
that's kind of sad  
well anyway  
well i guess i better go  
well good luck to you  
i enjoyed it  
thanks  
bye bye  
what do you think about the uh peace corps or public service commitment  
well i think it was uh thought up when there was so much controversy about [reviving] a draft  
and people said well they uh young people who were drafted have to provide military service to the country  
but there are an awful lot of young people who would benefit from um some sort of public service   like the conservation corps back in the thirties or uh various other things of that sort  
and it seems to me that it's it's not a totally bad idea  
but i don't quite see how they'd make it work  
how would they decide who goes into uh building fire breaks in yosemite national park and who goes to saudi arabia  
yeah  
the the difficulty would be in whether it's voluntary or involuntary  
and the people who were proposing it said that it should be involuntary that it should be like a draft  
and some people would get military service  
and some people would get civilian uh   service like working in hospitals  
this  
i assume it's the kinds of things that they had conscientious objectors do   when people were drafted and they refused to serve in the army  
they were allowed to do hospital service or uh things like that  
and if they  
or farm work in world war one i remember   uh reading about  
and and i suppose that there is uh justification for taking everybody if you take anybody  
but i just really think that the difficulties involved in paying them uh sorting them out [assigning] them   training them would be [insurmountable]  
yeah  
well it's a possibility  
well i think that in the in the cases that like that uh they had to be uh pretty thoroughly [examined] to prove that they had pacifist and religious beliefs and so forth   and that this wasn't something new just to keep out of going to war  
it was uh something that was a fundamental part of their philosophy of life  
oh yeah  
sure  
and   in addition to that we have the cost because you have to pay something for   their room and board  
and then you have to pay them some kind of a [stipend]   uh even if it's like the peace corps where they don't get most of it until they come home   you have have to pay them something  
oh yeah  
yeah  
now i had a lot of friends who went to the peace corps uh back in the mid sixties  
and it really did seem to be a worthwhile organization  
but on the other hand i'm not sure what the permanent value of it was  
i don't   know what we got for all the money  
we had an awful lot of idealistic people who went off to uh what was then east [pakistan] is now bangladesh   and to uh [algeria] and to uh southeast asia and lots of uh out of the way places  
but i don't know if they really had significant effects in the places where they went   in teaching the people how to cope with their lives better  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
and it was definitely voluntary too  
they were not drafting you and sending you   against your will  
yeah  
well what about a voluntary program  
do you think that would be a good idea  
i don't either  
yeah  
out here in california   there's a program like that for uh [juvenile] [delinquents] the the ones that are not dangerous  
and they don't have to be locked up go to these uh camps  
and they   do [forestry] work  
they maintain trails  
and they uh put up signs  
and they do fire prevention work and certainly things of that sort  
and that i know is run by the state  
but there may be other things  
i'm not so sure what kind of uh training that is for the future for those kids  
it's probably a   a very good way to keep them off the streets and out of trouble  
but whether it's something that they can put to to economic use later on is a different subject  
that's true  
good point oh  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm sorry  
i'm going to have to go  
but my other line is [blinking]  
but it was good to talk to you  
uh that's the first i've ever heard of it  
i haven't heard of it anything too much about it  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i  
the  
my first impression was um it would be very good  
i think it would be good for people to serve  
but i don't know if it should be an option  
it would be great to have some of those organizations like you mentioned that were during the depression or coming out of the depression available for kids  
and i think there are some available now where they are able to work  
but making it a mandatory thing kind of  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it seems like you'd have a lot more conscientious objectors if they had that choice  
yeah  
you know i'd i'd much rather work in a hospital than than to go war  
and i'm sure most young men and women would  
and so uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that makes sense  
and then you run into again to um the bureaucracy in running it  
you know how you going to   cover that many people because we've got a lot more people now than we did then  
so  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
plus the training involved  
yeah  
that would be expensive in most cases  
because  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i know in  
i personally took a year and a half and went as a missionary and taught christianity in japan  
and i was living such a stringent lifestyle that it was very beneficial to me  
it taught me not to be so self centered and it you know to think of others  
but i don't know if i was doing it in different situation you know not a really religious background if if i would get a lot out of it  
you know i think i did because it you know it emphasized that sort of thing  
you know a lot of   self evaluation  
right  
right  
and that i'm sure that would make a big difference too  
you know you've got  
um well like i say i know that there are some type of programs that they have available for a youth like teenagers to go and do um work in the national parks and work in uh neighborhoods to do um clean up and that sort of thing  
but i don't know what organization it's under  
i don't know if it's a government run or if it's a private   charity that's put it together  
but i know that that helps a lot with training and um   a lot of  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how much benefit   it'll do them in the long run  
right  
especially in you know if you take a a child that's from the inner city and then put them in the a middle of a park  
if they go back to the inner city they may not see trees for a while   much less be able to take care of them  
so that's yeah so that may not may not benefit them in the long run  
but  
okay  
well thank you  
you too  
bye bye  
well what's your views on it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we're not too far behind  
i graduated in seventy one  
so i'm i'm same generation  
i i'm  
it's going to be a short conversation because i agree with you  
i i think uh i don't i don't even think it ought to be uh voluntary  
i think it ought to be mandatory uh for kids to either either do military service or public service one of the two  
uh a lot of reasons for that not not just because i'm a i'm a hard ass or anything  
it's just that like you say kids are getting out of high school not knowing what in the heck they're going to do  
and either the military or public service organization can give them a lot of focus  
and i think that it might stop us some problems later on  
i mean you know these kids will get their their heads on straight and and figure out what they want to do instead of hanging around street corners selling drugs or something  
uh it's i think it would be good for them uh  
it helps mature them a little bit and helps them understand the world the way it really is  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and and most of them aren't  
i mean you look you look at the number of marriages that are occurring right i mean even in high school  
and you know you wonder where are the parents in all of this  
you know why isn't somebody stepping in and and putting a stop to this  
kids in high school are just too young to be married  
they they have no idea what the world is like  
they don't how tough it is out there to make a living  
uh i mean i was in the same boat when i left high school  
i my parents wanted me to go straight to college  
and i didn't  
you know i was ready  
i was ready  
i had [wanderlust]  
i wanted to get out and see some things  
so i joined the air force and ended up staying there for thirteen years  
um but i had lived in my own little [bubble] up until that time  
and and after traveling around the world a few times i realized that things ain't the way they seem  
and i i did a lot of growing up there uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
well you know it's just like you say there's so much stuff that needs to be done here in this country  
and uh you know if if you could have a thought of something like uh like a uh uh a peace corps sort of organization i mean this would be so useful just in uh for instance just helping old folks  
you know they you know they need help  
they don't have anybody to depend on  
and it would be nice to have somebody come over and cut their yard or paint their house or do minor repairs or something like that  

yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
my mom's in the same position late sixties  
and and it got to the got to the point where i mean me and my brother both were were gone and she couldn't maintain the house without large expenditures of money  
you know it finally got to a point where she just had to sell it and move into an apartment  
and uh i i'm not i'm not saying that that wouldn't have happened anyway  
but it would have been nice if there had been somebody to come around and take care of the little things you know like the like the yard work and little repairs and painting and stuff like that  
oh yeah  
sure  
sure  
i mean i mean the kids who would be giving the service are going to get a lot more out of it than just money  
you know that  
i i remember when i was a kid i used to do little little things for the old folks around the neighborhood  
and uh i know how it made me feel  
you know you uh  
people just don't help people anymore  
they're they're out for themselves  
and  
yeah  
well that's that's the that's the point we've gotten to you know  
every time somebody wants something they always turn to the government  
and the government's going to be limited  
i where are they going to get the money  
they're going to get it from us  
and we can do it a lot more efficiently than the government  
we don't need to add fourteen layers of bureaucracy to a program  
um the thing that carter works on uh [habitats] for humanity i was involved in that uh in montgomery before i came up to north carolina  
and uh it was it was a pretty neat little program  
we'd just go out  
and they would buy a plot of land and contractors and builders  
and everybody else would donate their their time  
and uh the materials were at cost  
and we'd put up houses  
and that was kind that was kind of neat  
i uh in a way i think it's a little bit [inefficient]  
but but it's better than nothing  
and and at least i had the opportunity of seeing two families move into decent housing  
um course on the other hand i can start complaining very [loudly] about people on public assistance who are quite capable of doing something for themselves but just won't   because it's far more advantageous for them to sit there and just draw uh welfare money than it is to work  
uh we did a uh a cost comparison in one of my courses  
and we took all the benefits that a family that a a married couple with two kids would get under welfare and what they would be making at minimum wage  
and they came out four thousand dollars better a year by taking welfare  
so there's no incentive for them to do anything  
far better for them to sit on their butts and draw the money  
you had to do something  
yeah  
and that's been tried that was tried in alabama too  
and it got shot down  
i and i don't understand the reasoning for it  
i really don't  
it it seems perfectly logical that if somebody's going to take public money then they should return something to the public  
i mean if nothing else go out along an interstate and pick up garbage  
yeah  
what do they what do they do in maryland  
do they use highway people  
or do they use prisoners  
yeah  
that's the way they did it in alabama too  
usually you'd see these big chain gangs out there picking up trash  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we have that here in north carolina  
i think it's uh a good idea  
um i grew up uh  
my teenage years were spent during the sixties  
graduating uh high school in sixty eight um i remember when the peace corps movement first came about  
and i thought it was a very good idea at the time  
i was one of those uh kennedy children if you know what i mean  
and uh right now i see a lot of kids who get out of school have no idea what they want to do  
and there's a lot of things out there that we could do uh for our own country  
let alone other countries  
and i think that we've got the the people power to do it  
it's just uh  
we need to channel it and focus it on some things that that need some fixing up  
um   some examples are this uh some of the things like jimmy [carter's] been involved in uh a little program to you know fix up housing for people  
and there's a lot of housing  
i know in the area that i live in that's run down and beat up  
but it could be fixed up and used  
and it's just you know sitting there wasting away  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think a lot of people grow up with uh with uh [preconceived] [notions] what the world's about  
a lot of it has to do from too much t v  
and uh you know it's there's there's a heck of a lot of difference between you know the intake that you get from t v and and movies and what you hear in school and then what reality is  
uh i remember uh i've i've worked since i was  
well i started [delivering] papers when i was ten  
and i had a real job when i was thirteen  
so i've you know worked most of my life  
but i remember when i got out of high school all through high school was  
boy i can't wait to get out of high school  
i can't wait to get out of high school  
and i wanted to go to college  
and i had the grades to go to college  
and i got accepted to college  
but when i got out of high school i kind of said you know what am i going to do now  
you know it's  
like you know when i actually started working full time and i i got married shortly after getting out of high school  
i uh thought i was smart ran away and got married  
and uh i remember there was a time and within the first year of marriage i said boy wouldn't i give to get be back in school   and just have to do homework and and go work my part time job  
because life and the reality of working for a living and trying to make ends meet is just so overwhelming to someone   if they aren't prepared for it  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
a  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
i think once once kids get out and see how other people really live   and know how bad off some people really are and how good they've got it   and what it takes to have that good life   if you're willing to work for it   then they're probably be more inclined to work for it  
uh_huh  
exactly  
you know i've i've i  
my my parents are in their late sixties now  
and um so many of the people that live around them are unable to do those things for themselves anymore  
and it's it's really hard on them  
and the you know the thought that i i see the uh the mall rats you know walking around the mall nothing better to do than just walk around the mall all day long when they could be doing something to help someone  
and uh you know there's a uh a nice warm feeling  
i remember getting out of doing things like that when i was younger  
i mean i was a boy scout  
and the whole bit and  
yeah  
yeah  
i think there'd there'd be a you know a uh economic benefit for you know everyone concerned   those doing the work and those receiving the the uh the services  
yeah  
yeah  
i think uh president bush covered that in his uh state of the union address this year when he said that you know it's time for you know the individuals to start thinking about what they can do to help each other out instead of counting on government to do everything  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
one of the things they tried to push through in maryland and uh weren't very successful was that if you were an able bodied person on welfare   you had to do some work  
and  
yeah  
that's exactly what they were trying to get them to do  
um both  
yeah  
they use both  
uh they have a they have another program in maryland that's called adopt a highway  
okay um  
yeah  
one year public service for everybody  
is that that was it right  

i don't know  
i've been i've been sitting here thinking  
yeah  
because it was you know took a couple tries before i found somebody  
well you know i'm like i'm not really sure what i think about this  
um uh i mean the first thing is the uh if it's going to be mandatory it's got to be mandatory  
i mean everybody not just like you know poor people and all that you know but   you know [senators'] sons and all that stuff too  
i mean everybody's got to do it  
um i don't know  
it'd probably be it'd probably be good  
i just don't know if you know i was eighteen or whatever i'd want to be stuck doing it for a year or whatever  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it is uh  
uh_huh  
well i guess it would still depend on how  
i mean if if you're talking about if you're talking about something that's like a full time you know one year full time you know this is what you do you know  
you're going to go and and fill pot holes and you know and you know all that stuff  
i mean i you know i don't know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
and also you know you you feel more like you know you're actually part of the community if you've done something   in it  
uh_huh  
uh definitely  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that would   be a nightmare  
and just i mean just getting getting it going  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
not yet  
in about six months we will  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they have   that here um  
they've got um in most of the states around here i think uh  
you know down in north carolina there was a big controversy for a while because they uh the local chapter of the k k k wanted to uh   uh to participate in it  
and uh   there was a   yeah  
well uh it was it was interesting because that's an interesting question you know  
should these people be allowed to or not  
i think they finally decided not to because they figured that stretch of highway was going to get trashed  
yeah  
i think [virginia's] got it  
and i know maryland does  
and we just we went to indianapolis last weekend and back  
and um i'm pretty sure i saw yeah stuff in ohio and indiana about it and pennsylvania maybe pennsylvania  
i don't remember for sure now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and but then they lost   too much business  
uh_huh  
well the thing about that is though it's got a  
i mean because it was i mean it was big you remember like in the early seventies and all that  
and you know and then it kind of just went out of vogue  
and i i'm worried that it it might you know it'll it the same thing will happen  
it's like you know [environmentalism] was really big for a couple of years  
and then people like well you know  
i'd [ruther] rather spend you know fifty cents less on uh on on such and such you know  
and even if it's not environmentally safe who cares you know  
yeah  
well yeah uh  
well uh wouldn't  
it's just probably a good thing that the [oil's] burning and may may make some people realize that hey you know this stuff runs out  
of course that's probably [blasphemy] for you to say uh coming from where you are in texas  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
well my dad's in the in the solar energy business  
so uh   you know we're [acutely] aware of a lot of this  
but you know on the other hand he voted for george bush  
so um you know i i wonder sometimes if he knows what he's doing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well the the thing with bush  
right  
uh who wants to start this one  
right  
right  
i'm not sure i want an eighteen year old to make that kind of decision  
uh i mean that that doesn't sound right  
um i guess i see overall beneficial if if we're going from that point of view  
um you know in the past  
i don't know i don't know how old you are  
but when i was uh in high school it was the beginning of vietnam and so forth  
and many of my peers were being drafted  
and i could see that many of them had conscientious objections to war or whatever  
but i i felt strongly then that even if they didn't feel like they could kill someone or go into a military situation that they could help the country in other ways be it cleaning out uh lots in in their neighborhood or   whatever kind of community or public service might be available  
and i guess i see that as as not so much a demand but but a privilege  
it's it's kind of uh uh   it's something  
it's it's  
since we live here and we all benefit rich poor or in between uh there are benefits even for those who have it the hardest i just see that as maybe a good idea  
i wouldn't mind doing it at forty four  
uh and i find ways to to turn some of that back to to others  
uh and i i guess i i can't see that as being something to really object to  
i could see a a full a a gamut of different kinds of opportunities  
things that need to be done   that that could be done in an hour or two   uh a day or several hours of the week like a half of a day on saturday or something like that in addition to what one does   uh besides that  
i i can't imagine what kind of uh uh [bureaucracies] we'd get into and expense having it be full time  
oh you're going to go to this camp  
and you're going to you know  
like um back in the depression the c c c   the construction corps that went out and did things that was great  
it was needed  
it gave some folks some jobs  
and we got some great public works out of it  
but um i don't see that as being necessary now  
i can see it being done uh on a regular schedule  
uh everybody has to put in so many hours of uh public service in a given time perhaps  
uh i i guess i see all of us [benefiting]  
and i i don't see it just [relegated] to the young  
but i see i i see so much going on that that's bad  
and this would give them a chance to have some positive self esteem  
something that they turn   back  
that's right  
you take pride in that and and get some some positive feedback from those who benefit   besides yourself  
and i i see it being most beneficial if it's in the neighborhood where or or at least the area where the person lives  
it might not be the same neighborhood but the same city or county because then you're you're coming in contact with it  
it's not as meaningful for me to go to minnesota and do something up there that i'll never be able to see again unless i happen to go on vacation   up there  
it's it almost needs to be something that has more impact for the individual on going  
but as far as putting that into work i don't want to i don't want to deal with the with the [heartache] of first of all getting it started and figuring out how to do the logistics   of it  
yeah  
i i see a lot of things like uh scouting uh   boys clubs girls clubs things like that that kind of get into that citizenship uh the uh looking after the environment sort of thing  
and i guess i don't see uh this being that different but even more beneficial because it would be something that everybody participated in   and would take a turn in  
do you have kids  
oh well good  
you'll have a little time think about that  
i guess i i have uh  
when i was teaching school i saw many so many kids that were at loose ends and that didn't really have a purpose  
and i can see you know some some really significant things coming out of it  
i know you've got to get past that that [grudge] attitude that many have  
but that's uh that would be a part of selling it to the community  
the adults uh ahead of it would probably never serve and and to each [succeeding] generation there definitely would have to be a major p r campaign in each community each county   uh [parish] or however the state was divided up  
um i may  
well i don't know  
around here we have a number of community projects that folks just volunteer for  
boy scout troops or church groups or civic clubs will uh police a uh a couple of miles of the highway and  
and i i've seen it in other states too  
i don't know  
um  
and there were those that said no  
you can't do that i'm sure  
yeah  
oh  
and i hadn't even thought about that uh the the other end of that  
that that's an interesting uh situation  
i hadn't thought of that  
we had visited relatives in virginia not too long ago  
and i thought i had seen when we were traveling around the state some similar signs up that indicated that certain sections were being [policed] and cleaned up  
and  
and i don't know about your part of the country  
but uh down here in the last oh year plus i it was beginning with last year's earth day   there's just been more of a turn toward uh environmental concerns  
and i work for texas instruments  
and they they've started some recycling campaigns that a year before that had been turned down because they said well it's not feasible  
it's not a good idea  
and   i see that as being   i i see that as being a a a change uh for the positive kind of along the same line as as as the mandatory thing  
it's just thing a part of everyone's consciousness  
i'm sure the pendulum will swing the other way  
uh there have been too many other things that it's done that for just in my life  
and if you look at history at all you see that you know uh we go from one side to the other on just about any subject   that you one might care to bring up  
but it is [comforting] to me to see uh more concern about some of these things that that cost us money  
especially when we have dwindling uh resources such as oil that's burning out of control in the persian gulf and and so forth  
just just every little bit does  
it makes me feel better  
it it makes me feel like well there may be something left for my children my nieces and nephews and so forth  
that's that's right because  
uh no  
no  
because if we  
what was it seventy four when we had the the last last oil crisis  
and uh we started getting smart  
and and we were looking all these alternative sources of the energy and so forth  
and as soon as the oil prices came back down we the pendulum [swang] the other way  
and we need those [reminders]  
uh or we'll suddenly be in the dark and say oh my goodness now we don't have the ability to go on to some new technology  
ah  
well i you know  
just about anybody you could name whether i voted for them or not   uh makes um uh decisions that i just can't go along with  
but that's why they're there and not me  
i don't want the   i don't want the stress  
huh  
okay  
well i don't know if i know anything or not  
but i've i've got some opinions on it  
see those type of people that that have the most opinions ones that don't know anything  
well uh i've had teenagers  
and i now have grandchildren that are teenagers  
and i don't know that it might do them a little bit of good to see the world from a different perspective  
uh i think this me generation has gone far too far  
and the young people are overly impressed  
and i think it wouldn't hurt them to step back from themselves just slightly and see things from a far more disadvantaged viewpoint  
uh i personally know nothing about the peace corps though  
but they have  
i read somewhere  
and i'm i'm out on a limb here some type of college uh volunteer work for teachers that they are straight out of college  
and they do one year of volunteer work teaching in the uh lower income brackets of the united states  
have you ever heard about that one  
oh really  
and this is money that she's borrowed to form her college education  
but she got credits for it  
that's very interesting  
huh  
yeah  
i think that is an excellent program  
i really do  
i like that  
and it's it's beneficial to the small towns too because   they really really have have a disadvantage that we wouldn't understand because we're in the metroplex  
right  
you know if if we had some really major health problem that required a specialist we could find one it wouldn't be convenient  
but we could find one  
we wouldn't have to drive and spend the night someplace or something like that  
so i i can see the advantage to that one  
the peace corps itself is really a uh dying out isn't it  
it's still in existence  
i want to believe they go into other countries and teach them how to do things like farm   uh dig their own wells set up   their schools  
yes  
they  
it's not a program to teach them to use the american money it's a program to teach them to be more self [reliant]  
and yes  
you're right  
i think it's a sixties program  
i think it was one of [kennedy's] hot points that he  
that was his big deal  
right  
right  
um i think i i've [singled] out my grandchildren  
and but actually they're they're pretty good   along those lines as compared to what i have seen from other people's children and grandchildren mine aren't really that bad  
but at the same time i think it would do them a world of good  
but there's a  
mandatory just like   like the draft  
no  
every time you  
they could buy their way out  
right  
you know they they'd figure a way around that one in a heartbeat  
but i'm wondering if there's another issue here  
and maybe this is why this has died out  
can you go into  
and this wasn't the question  
but it's it may be the more of the issue versus should young adults  
can they go in there and can anyone go into well out of  
the kurdish community is a little bit extreme at this time  
but say i think bangladesh would have been a good example or some some really desperate situation  
and teach them to farm and teach them  
and it doesn't do any good  
i don't know that it does  
i i   don't know that um if you step back from the current issue and look at it more intellectually there are forever over as long as we know there are races of people that are dropping out  
you know we're losing certain   races of people  
there are people now that are obsolete point and fact just just like endangered species of animals so there are quote tribes of people   that are endangered or obsolete  
and i'm just wondering if you're fighting a natural process there of being [winnowed] out  
there's a german word for it that's elegant  
but i never can remember what it was  
uh but but that they're they're being [winnowed] because they're where they are they're not [adapted] to their environment essentially  
um and one of the quick examples is the [aborigines]  
uh when we were in australia uh  
sad little things uh i felt sorry for them because their society isn't there anymore  
and their belief system and all their structured of theirs all the [structures] of their society are gone essentially  
and they're just kind of more like a side show than anything else  
and that's sad  
but i don't think there's any way you could go uh the peace corps could go in and rescue those people  
and i don't think you could have done it fifty or a hundred years ago either  
so i i'm wondering if the peace corps is   really an effective tool  
good point  
we've got enough without without a [passport]  
there's plenty  
yes  
i think we ought to worry about our own species  
i wonder now in  
and i've been out of school too long to answer this  
but i wonder if there aren't some sociology courses  
that's the last thing you want   to do  
yeah  
that's exactly it  
they're not going to take that money you give them and go try to figure out a way to dry out with it  
now come on let's be realistic  
that's just not realistic  
right  
no  
we're not i don't think  
i think   that's more realistic than making them go in the peace corps  
i think that's a lot more realistic  
uh i i think that we should be spending more time  
and and again i don't think the the peace corps is is as successful now simply because it's not it doesn't fit the circumstance anymore  
uh we've got plenty  
in fact we've got far too many  
you're in uh what flower mound  
i was  
that's exactly what i was going to ask you  
have you ever have have you been downtown  
i don't know how much i know about this subject  
yeah  
okay  
go ahead  
yeah  
that's true  
um me either  
i i went to college and then started working and then got married  
and  
no  
i haven't  
i know that uh my sister  
i have a twin sister  
and when they graduated she went to uh teach in a small town down in south texas  
and i know that like if you have college notes if you teach in a lower income bracket where they don't pay as much and they cancel part of your you know your college note or whatever  
uh_huh  
if it's like you know really a you know a lower paying job you know where in a small town you don't obviously you don't need as much as far as to you know to live  
yeah  
she only taught there one year  
but i  
uh_huh  
and um i think it would be  
i know that also one of my cousins who uh he is in like the therapy type thing  
and he was um  
some group paid part of his college income  
but then he was required to go back and work for a certain number of years in this town at uh uh  
i mean it's a nursing home or something like that  
so you know if  
i think that's a good way for people to you know maybe get people to come back to these small towns to work by helping people that normally might not be able to go to college and get the type of degree they want  
yeah  
as far as yeah getting doctors and all that stuff yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i really don't know that much about it  
you know i i i think of the peace corps you know more like the sixties and that kind of stuff when  
yeah  
and don't they go into other countries and stuff  
uh_huh  
things that make the  
yeah  
make them more self supporting  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
but it definitely would give a lot of the kids now that have everything given to them that they want to see what it's like if you don't have all the money and can't have what you want when you want it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't i don't know that you could require everyone to   do that for yeah   to do it for a whole year   or two years or something like that  
i don't know that that would work if   somebody's was didn't really want to be there and didn't have  
yeah  
i mean there would be loopholes just like there is in anything else  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
down here with the peace corps we're talking about all these people that aren't even in our own country when there's enough people here that i think probably need help and   could be helped  
yeah  
and maybe rather than just require somebody to join like the peace corps for a year maybe like um during college you know maybe have some kind of course where they'd be required to do some kind of community service type work and help people in that area or people in the united states  
there probably are you know  
for  
but i'm sure  
that's probably like people that do that are are the people that are going to go into social work and stuff  
but i think that it wouldn't really be half bad for everybody not to do something you know and realize it's everybody's responsibility to um help these people you know  
and  
i'm not saying just give them money  
but i mean because they have to be taught to be  
yeah  
i mean i know that's what my father in law was talking about you know when you give these people money  
or what was it  
they were bringing up points asking as far as whether they need to give um more money to these people  
i mean and that's not really the answer i mean because if they're alcoholics they'll just go out and spend   it on you know booze or something like that  
but  
yeah  
or you know to find a job where they can learn how to support themselves  
i mean i guess we're getting kind of off the subject here  
but  
yeah  
i mean it's  
true  
yeah  
yeah  
flower mound  
yeah  
so we're a little you know farther removed from like dallas and some of the areas where they probably have more of the homeless and that type of thing  
can you speak up please  
yes  
uh  
but they will accept you later in life also  
yeah  
after your children are grown  
yes  
no  
no  
i'm not  
some of the people that have been involved with peace corps among other things were retired teachers  
uh there was a retired plumber that went to uh uh [uruguay] i think and helped them quite a bit with [concepts] in plumbing you know providing for a for better public [hygiene]  
yeah  
but so do you think that people should be required to give a couple years for the good of the country  
why  
well i understand  
but if it were told to us that we would find the time somewhere between our seventeenth and uh twenty sixth birthday to give a year or two to the to the country in the form of maybe building better roads or the parks service or the peace corps or you know the military service or something wouldn't we have uh maybe a better class of americans  
a lot of these a lot of our uh  
pardon the terminology  
but [yuppies] now are interested in one thing and one thing only  
and that's themselves  
and at least if you [legislated]   giving for a couple years of their lives or or uh a honestly purely giving but but some sort of equitable exchange then at least the country would have gotten two years from them where um they would have given something to the country instead of take taking away all their lives  
uh  
give them your give them your entire life for two years no  
it will be a job of sorts  
i'm sure that the peace corps pays it doesn't pay well  
it's not top wages  
but but it does pay  
the military  
for young hiring in soldiers does pay  
it doesn't pay well  
okay currently in our country especially in some [regions] there's an employment problem  
you're aware of that i'm sure  
and texas instruments  
you know in in another time we had the w p a   works progress administration   during the great depression   though i can't see why it was great  
uh that gave people pay that was halfway between relief which was welfare   and the minimum wage  
in trade for   money   and and living  
they gave them food and uniforms  
and   uh here in colorado you'll find a great many things  
public roads that were worked on by the w p a uh [dams] that were built by the w p a   uh scenic [overlooks] parks  
we are road our road system's falling apart  
our our national road system system of highways   and roads is falling apart  
there's a lot of work to be done  
i i can't see the problem in it for a year  

what what i'm saying is that if it were mandatory   that every person right after graduation from high school   that were able bodied   would give a year well or not give a year but but trade a year  
then they  
at least one not more than say three or four then it would definitely effect unemployment  
i don't know  
well you know texas new mexico colorado huge numbers of other western states have no real welfare system  
there's aid to dependent children and aid to mothers of dependent children  
but there's no real welfare system  
but if we took these people off off the streets for a year there would darn sure be more hours labor available in the nation for everyone else  
and who knows maybe some of our graduating high school seniors would find out a little bit more of what the traditional american work ethic means  
you know we have had some problem with that in recent years  
uh they wish only for the paycheck  
really producing  
yeah  
be it selling drugs or whatever  
yeah  
yeah  
and maybe if we [instilled] the work ethic you know  
i enjoy the i enjoy working  
uh you know i when i was much younger uh than i am now i i had wanted to go to the peace corps  
and uh it seems like i it it was something that i i really wanted wanted to do  
seems like wanting to go to the peace corps was something that i had really wanted to do when i was young  
but uh i don't believe they accept you after you you know after you're married  
and you have uh kids and all that  
so i got into   that  
and then i wasn't able to to uh participate  
oh they will  
oh i didn't know that  
then there's no age limit  
your kidding  
goodness i'm surprised  
i really had no idea  
well i don't i don't really think that they they should be it should be mandatory  
i mean   well i don't know  
i  
it's  
that just might not be something that everybody wants to do  
i mean there are a lot of people who would like to do it  
and there are a lot of people who get into other things  
and they get all involved  
and they just you know don't want to or don't have the time  
i don't see how that can can make a better class of americans to make everybody to make it mandatory for everybody to participate  
that's true  
well i don't i don't think that  
yeah  
are are you suggesting then that if if uh if i have to go and and do something for the country for two years that the country will compensate me in some way  
i i will be compensated for this  
i'm not just going to  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that that that's true  
but in even in our region there's an employment problem  
there's a lot of uh people gotten laid off lately you know from just companies like general dynamics and   and texas instruments  
thousands and thousands of people are out there looking for jobs  
no  
i'm not   i'm not familiar with that  
oh  
uh_huh  
i see  
and that was that was that was some some program where people gave their time   in trade for   for money  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well then i guess there are a lot of a lot of things that people could do to contribute to the good of the country  
uh_huh  
i i really don't see anything wrong with it  
i just don't think that it should be mandatory that every person have to do that  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
all right  
i wonder if if they didn't make it mandatory if they would actually get enough people volunteering to to do it that it you know that they would have enough  
i mean i i'd probably  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well yes  
we have  
with with uh recent generations i i know exactly what you are talking about  
i i mean i know several people who do not wish to work  
well they wish for the money  
and they they decide that they're going to get the money anyway they can with you know without uh   without without working in the the traditional american job market  
right  
so one other thing  
and they they get the money anyway they can  
yeah  
okay  
um i think that in this day and age everyone needs to have some sort of exposure to community service  
because it it seems like  
and i'm i'm thinking of the of community of people that are in jail now  
i think that maybe if if if some of those people had gotten exposed to the community gotten exposed to working with other people that some of the things that they did they would not have done  
because they they understand people more  
they understand helping people more  
they understand the plight of people  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i would think that for like people that are just filthy filthy rich  
i think that they would benefit also in doing community service so that they can see  
and i'm i'm speaking about people that are like born rich  
and that's all they know  
and i'm thinking that community service would help them uh just get a feel of what else is out there how other people are living you know  
if they were to work in in a a i don't know a soup kitchen or something   they would understand how other people live  
and   uh you know on the same note if poor if poorer people uh are working to to serve the community i don't know they probably have a better perspective of of life itself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
[demeanor]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
that's great  
uh_huh  
and i i think that that you know  
this on the same note being  
he was exposed to that  
and maybe he wasn't before  
and now he sees  
and i think that anybody that works in the in some kind of service or for the community or something   they can see you know  
you don't see what you don't you can't know what you don't see   you know  
so and you have to experience some things  
you know a lot of people know that people that other people are poor  
but you   they don't know what poor is   unless they actually see it and you know help or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
there's something i i've really be skeptical of you know  
you watch television  
you'll see the service [announcement] for children in other countries  
and   if you want to send like you know fifty cents a day   or something like that  
and you can help a child  
it's i don't know i guess it's just me  
but i don't know whether to trust that or not  
i mean there are so many scams   and things going on you know  
i would love to help somebody you know  
but i just i can't bring myself to trust this   this company who is trying to do this or whatever it is you know  
just because people or so i don't know just today people are just so money hungry   that i think they would do anything  
and so you don't know what they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
more self centered uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but you can't do that today  
uh_huh  
yeah  
even when when i first moved to dallas from new york it seemed like dallas was so open you know  
everybody left their   doors open  
you just run   in the store  
you leave your car running   you know  
and this was only uh  
well i guess it has been awhile  
it's been almost ten years since i moved here  
and it's amazing now how much it's changed  
i mean i don't go out i don't go   outside at night you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh god  
that would be the exact opposite of here  
i mean if you leave something anywhere you might as well forget it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that is sad  
yeah  
yeah  
that's   a big that's a big thing with me  
i live in a one bedroom  
i'm single  
and i've i could live in an apartment  
i live in waco okay  
and you either live in really low priced housing or you live on the other side of town in the high price apartments  
and i live  
i don't make a lot of money  
but i live in the high price apartments simply because i feel safe here  
and i pay i'm paying probably the hundred or hundred fifty dollars more than i would be paying somewhere else  
but i wouldn't be able to sleep at night  
and that to me is worth the extra money   for me to be you know  
i feel very safe where i am you know  
instead of  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
huh_uh  
yeah  
they don't even consider it  
uh_huh  
to  
yes  
yes  
i was talking to someone yesterday about that  
and we were saying that the basic uh the the basic family is is disrupted these days  
and so i think you know before the father would work  
and the mother you know would stay home  
and having that mother there that base i think   was a big part of of family a big part of of what you know your your uh youngsters thought about what they did   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
when i call  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's true  
uh_huh  
i agree with you in the sense that uh i think that it's important for people to uh also share give something of themselves  
and uh i think that there's too much in the in in a way of self [gratification] today  
and there's not enough sharing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i think the peace corps is great too   because uh it you go to different countries  
and you see  
uh in fact i saw an interview on t v the other night with uh patrick swayze  
and he's making a movie in i think it's uh [calcutta] or either india   somewhere where it's it's a very poor poor country  
and he said that people in the west  
he said since being there and i guess he's been there about six months  
he said that his whole idea of what's important has changed  
and he said that people have no idea he said of of what human sacrifice is you know  
since being there he's he's learned to what it is to be poor and have nothing  
and yet those people have uh such uh a happy   uh  
yeah  
in in other words they don't dwell on on what they don't have  
they dwell on what they do have  
and they're happy with each other type of thing  
he said that out here he said that when he comes back he knows that it it's completely changed his life  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
exactly right  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
well i i know that it that must be true especially if you do something along the lines of uh you know helping them learn how to survive how to plant   how to find water  
and i've seen so many   uh extraordinary things on t v   that people have done working in the peace corps and how you know uh the people of the community they worked in is so much better  
it's like one person can make a difference  
and i i really believe that they can in something like that  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
i know  
and how do  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
i know  
it's true  
it really is  
it's the sad life i think today  
it's uh it's it's not like it used to be even in in the years of my growing up  
i mean i'm fifty three years old  
and i have seen a town change from a town to a city and its   uh people you know grow from a small town to a large town  
and you would think that more people would be better you know share more   do more you know be more community oriented and all  
but if they just get more uh unto themselves kind of  
right  
and and it's not the sharing of   uh a neighbor to a neighbor  
and we would go out and not even lock our doors   and not even worry about it  
but today i mean you know it's like you wouldn't even think of doing that  
if you don't have bars on the window you're not even safe you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
in dallas i  
i was going to say  
cause i i heard i in fact i was talking to someone from dallas uh just last week  
and they was saying that uh  
in fact it was this one girl particularly that worked for t i  
and she had gone overseas to tokyo  
and she asked them there if there was some anywhere that she shouldn't go because she was alone   you know being a girl from another country   and everything  
and she said they thought for a few seconds  
and they said uh no  
there's nowhere that you can go that you would have to be afraid  
they said to her that even if she left her purse on the subway okay   that she would have that purse returned to her this is how confident they were   okay with nothing missing  
okay  
this is a foreign country  
and you would think you know uh being uh an american or whatever   you know a [foreigner] there that   that would be all the more reason that they'd take advantage of you  
okay  
and she told me she said she could tell them for fifteen minutes places not to go in   in and around dallas  
and that's where she was from  
she said even choosing her apartment she had to be so careful because of being a woman alone  
you know she had  
there are certain  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and that that's why i think if people were more exposed to uh  
especially uh young kids getting out of high school  
i mean at one time they would go into the service   to have the same exposure and you know uh to further their [worldliness] so to speak   and go to see uh foreign countries that they would not necessarily be able to afford to see  
it was like they said  
join the navy to see the world type of thing you know  
but nowadays they don't do that anymore  
it's not a a thing a  
a lot of young men don't even uh have the desire to go into the service   or to uh you know do something for someone else  
and i don't know  
i [attributed] i think a lot of that to women working   you know to mothers not being at home  
the bonding process  
yeah  
it very definitely is  
that's right  
yeah  
and the thing is  
like i think a man can afford to support a woman  
but the woman affords the luxuries  
in in other words like anyone can live   on a certain income no matter what it is  
you have to   so to speak okay  
it it's what's important to you  
now a family  
i i think that like girls today have children  
and six weeks later they're back to work  
they don't even have a bonding with that child  
they   don't ever see the  
it's it's the most beautiful thing that happens between a mother and a child   the first like say six   years of life  
so much   happens in that period of time  
and i mean once the child's in school if you had a job from say nine to three   big deal  
i mean they they're in school  
you're at work  
that's great  
but it's kids that come home and don't have a mother there   or the kids are at home in the morning and  
um well i guess first of all i i could have asked that before  
do you have children  
no  
okay  
because i i didn't know if that would make a difference   in how you felt  
um what do you think about the proposal that all young americans should spend a year or two  
yeah  
i just um  
i guess that's my that's something that my family has always believed strongly in  
and uh i had opportunities in high school   to work in some programs um  
and and i agree with what you said that it's uh   it benefits the person doing it   so much i don't think they realize  
and i uh i i think it gives you a better perspective   on life  
and uh it gives you a little bit uh more a [glimpse] of the the real world  
and   and it would certainly help the country too uh  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
well i think sometimes through groups and organizations um  
my first when i first thought of it i thought it uh when they asked the question i thought well that sounds wonderful  
and then i wondered if people were [unwilling]  
but but i think even if you went in with a negative attitude i don't think it would stay negative very long  
um but i do know through some organized groups like scouts and church   um they   do still have opportunities  
but i i think that's a small uh number could  
no  
um not since um not as much as i remember growing up  
and that was something uh i think in the fifties and sixties um   seemed more common in the last two decades  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
where uh where abouts do you live  
what part of the country  
oh okay  
we're in plano  
so we're not far apart  
one of the calls i'd gotten before was uh down to austin  
and and i know a friend of mine talked to someone in the midwest  
so i know there is the possibility that   it could be out of the area  
oh  
yeah  
well  
and maybe uh maybe this would be a way to get that feeling back um if we've lost some of that  
and it it seems in the last decade or two um that's true  
maybe that's a way  
if if young people had to do it   um maybe that would start the trend back because that's one of the things i always thought was a wonderful part of our country um   is helping others  
yeah  
yeah  
i think uh i think it does help um even preschoolers you know  
they're um things even just starting around the home   you know  
little ones can do a little bit to help the family  
and and just watching the parents do things too um it can start a pattern  
there's always something no matter how young  
and then that helps develop that attitude  
um i guess i would really like to see this happen with families more  
you know i think this is certainly a possible way um to handle it  
but i wish  
that's something that i think that has been lost in families  
and i think that's a good place to start again  
yeah  
and i do think um the schools  
if you're trying to do something even with food drives  
and uh sometimes what richardson and plano both  
i mean when you live in areas like that where there's so much   they don't realize what a small percentage of the world that is  
i mean that's uh  
gosh i'm sure not even one percent of the world is as fortunate as these areas  
and uh   it's  
i know our church youth group uh starts with projects young  
but they have a high school group that works in the [appalachia]   area every year  
they've done this for fourteen years now  
um and it is it's uh  
and they've also see that there's there's a different way of life and those families are really close  
some of the things   that we talked about that were common in the fifties are still there  
and uh it really  
every youth that's ever gone really has felt that their life has been changed  
and it's changed their perspective  
and and that's just the two weeks during during the summer  
so if two weeks uh could have that kind of effect i would   think uh  
well that's  
yes  
well i guess um  
did you have anything else  
okay  
well i enjoyed talking with you  
and i hope you have a good evening  
thanks  
bye  
bye  
okay  
no  
yeah  
i think it's a good idea  
i think everybody should should uh put in their time so to speak for the for the good of the the nation and for the good of themselves  
i think it's uh  
would everyone grow up and mature and and realize what this country's all about  
did you  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
i think that's probably like uh quite a few things that that the kids uh maybe not so much nowadays but used to   go through you know  
they just they were they did things for people   you know for their communities for their their uh families for their friends where now i'm not sure they really do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's probably true   you know  
but even even through those groups do you think that they participate as much as maybe they used to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's probably true  
i think it's probably more true still in the in the smaller communities   then in the larger cities  
well i live in richardson right now which is just  
right  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
gosh  
i hadn't even thought about it being out of the area  
but you're right  
yeah  
i grew up in a real small town in florida  
i mean a real small town  
and uh i think it was just  
of course it was back in the in the fifties  
and i think it was real prevalent back then  
i i think people thought more of others than they do now   you know as far as doing things for them and and then gaining benefits from it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do to  
i do to  
i'm not sure that that today's kids would go for it though  
i think you would have to start younger  
i i don't know how young you'd have to go  
but i think by the time they're oh early teenagers anyway i think it's too late now at least around here  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it has to start in the families first because if you don't do it for for your own immediate family you're sure not going to do it for anybody else  
uh_huh  
that's probably true  
that's probably true  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's that's great  
i'm glad that there are still some areas that that get the youth involved in that sort of thing  
like i said i think it does  
even a small amount of exposure can make a vast difference   in their attitudes  
well  
no  
no  
i guess that's about all  
okay  
well good talking with you  
you too  
okay  
bye  
well uh and that's an idea that's been around for kicked around for a long time  
i don't know that it's ever been seriously considered uh as far as close to passing uh any legislation or anything like that  
but uh i believe israel does that don't they for their  
everybody has to do has to do something  
or maybe maybe theirs is in fact one year of military service for everyone  
but uh  
okay  
no  
i don't think it's it's  
i think of that  
it it couldn't be  
military service is not that much  
but the military used to do it  
but the idea that uh there are things that that do need to be done that could be done  
and then uh country would benefit from one year from from everybody and even out the the uh   requirement  
well now that's a thought  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
i'm afraid you're right there  
but uh but uh anything like this that came up whether it  
it quickly would be significant industry in in figuring out how to get around it where people  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i suspect that yeah that that that that's not the thing that they that they don't feel it's open to them  
it's just that they uh are more self centered if you will and not not considering   a voluntary  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh now i i don't know it  
i i think you're right that that's not the not the way that the society these days is going  
and i i think we need to we need to try to figure out some way to to turn that around that everybody  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that could be  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i i agree with that  
and uh and i i i don't know what what has what has set it off or what  
but it it certainly seems to me that that uh uh things in in the last twenty three years uh things have definitely gone towards uh very much the concentration on self and and loss of loss of perspective in terms  
uh yes  
i think so uh  
yeah  
i don't  
yeah  
i believe that's right  
and uh and i don't know that that's really what we're talking about  
yeah  
for   for kids in high school it could be in the summertime  
uh you know um it it could even be done while they're doing another job   while they're doing you know a job to make money  
but uh it's uh you know such a [grassroots] idea that it  
i think the family would have to be involved in it  
and people would have to be convinced that you know  
i i think the the basic message is that giving is better than receiving  
and that's not the kind of society we have right now  
there's lots and lots of volunteer programs  
and uh   but most of those are at least it it's my opinion that most of those involve adults   adults who have the time to give and and uh you know the desire   to to give  
it's not uh you know it's not uh  
maybe the maybe it uh  
younger people feel like it's not open to them  
i don't know  
but it should be if it's not  
yeah  
it is kind of an [introspective] time of life  
but some schools some high schools have actually started a program of like a [visitation] program to uh you know areas economically uh   say less [advantaged] areas  
and uh they they promote service on the part of the kids to to uh some of those people  
so at least that's a step in the right direction i guess  
it's really it's really unfortunate because when you do  
i do volunteer work for the american lung association  
and i have have done uh gone to work for american heart and just recently for the leukemia society  
and there's there's no question that doing you know doing that kind of service you get a lot more out of it than uh than the people involved  
uh it's it's really a gift to yourself  
and and that's i think that's a really important lesson to learn  
and and maybe that's why we have so many people in society who are not uh not really happy you know  
because if you concentrate all of your [energies] and efforts on yourself you're just kind of down the tube you know  
uh it really is better to give then to receive  
okay  
you want to tell me first how you feel about   the proposal  
uh_huh  
the boys  
not the girls the boys  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i thought it would be good too  
but i did not think it would be good that they all do something like the peace corps   because not all young people would have uh what it takes to go like that   because i think it takes a certain person to to be able to do something like that  
but there's a lot of other public service things   that could be done  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it would be that  
when they say this proposal is this something that they're just suggesting  
or are they actually  
why why why did they call it a proposal  
that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's what i wondered  
it'd be good character builder  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well people that are um have received sentences in jail they have uh some of them are going out and doing uh they have to go out and do public service   activities   which to me is is good  
uh_huh  
well i think sometimes it gives you a better picture of what some of the other people live like you know what   what some of the other parts of the world are like or   even other parts of the neighborhood   some of the people how they live  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because that's one thing that's hard with young people you you can't tell them how things are  
they have to see for themselves  
now of course this might be after they've gone through their teen years  
i don't know what their thought is on what age that this should be done  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
of course they've already gone through the period of time where they need more direction   you know they their teenage years and that they really sometimes need a little better direction to go   and something  
course now peace corps that couldn't be done of course until they were done with school   so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
kind of an in between   time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
no  
and like i said not now all young people should be able to do something  
but   not all certainly would be geared to even the the mormon boys that go out not all of them go  
i mean   it's disaster if they don't go  
but   but some of them are not  
they're just not made to do that type of thing  
and they just aren't able to do it  
well   um i i just think the way that things are going that um it would be good for young people to go ahead and have um dedicate themselves to at least something  
i know like the mormon religion you know they require two years of service uh missionary service  
right  
the boys  
yeah  
and um so but i think it would be good for all young people   you know to be able to to do something like that   um so that um you know i don't know i just feel it would be good for them to do that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
oh yeah  
and and even even in our home towns there's a lot of   um public service things that they could do   uh you know drug rehabilitation and   and alcohol and and just uh helping old people and um uh you know helping [cripple] just helping somebody else  
and i think that art of giving is something that um we don't have very much any more  
oh i think they just gave it a title  
but is this not something that's um in legislation or   in work some  
yeah  
no no  
it's not  
it's just a just a topic  
i think so too  
i think so too  
um because there's so many um kids who have uh you know so much money and so much free time and uh nothing to do um and nothing to give their time to  
um they don't even have a direction to give their their time to  
so i think   it would be really good for people to um to be able to give their time in in uh some kind of public service uh even in our government you know as uh aids to uh you know congress uh people  
so um yeah  
it would be it'd be really good   i think  
uh_huh  
right  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i agree with you  
this is something that um like you say is it's character building   um you know learning how to to give to others and being less selfish  
and  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i agree with you  
i agree with you  
and i think uh young people are so um uh focused just on themselves and their activities and whose going out with whom et cetera   that uh you know to get a taste of what the real world is actually about   doing that public service would be great  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i would think so like right after um high school   you know even if it was the the their um that summer right after high school   you know three months  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
you know something that out that was outside of uh outside of school  
yeah  
but yeah  
you know right right after you graduate from um high school because a lot of people are just um uh well gee whiz what do i do now   if they're not focused on going to college  
and uh you know having that that uh gung ho plan   uh that's you know setting their life goals  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so to me see that would be the the uh the greatest time for um you know teenagers to to do that would be right after they graduated from high school  
but as for its being required   you know we're just not we're not based on on that uh   type of a system um  
uh_huh  
right  
oh right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so um yeah  
it'd be good  
but like i said requiring it would be uh  
surprised they get anybody this time of day  
but   i've been trying all different times  
but i don't get anybody at five thirty don't get anybody at nine at night  
so thought   i'll try  
oh  
oh  
well i go to school  
so i'm home certain days  
and uh i really haven't been making any phone calls have you  
got  
oh  
have you have you received many  
yeah  
it's it's uh  
well the first time we were on this it came just about every day  
i never had to make one  
they just always came  
people must be tired of it or something  
well anyway i guess we're supposed to discuss this uh subject  
what do you think  
oh  
well i don't have any objection to people doing that  
i think it might be good for them  
but as a mother of two daughters i might be afraid of where they were sent  
i'm just concerned about their safety  
because if they do good work in america they'll probably be sent to a ghetto  
and if they were sent to a third world country i couldn't help but wait worried you know  
that that would be my main objection  
uh   i don't think  
it will probably never happen  
but  
yeah  
well it it probably won't  
i don't i don't even know how we'd pay for it anyway  
we can't uh   seem to pay for all the little things we have going now  
that's another consideration  
but uh i don't know  
some kids are so spoiled nowadays  
it might be a real eye opener you know  
i mean sometimes my kids are on the other side of town here  
and they just see some really tiny modest wood frame homes  
and then they think  
they're just kind of shocked at that side of town you know  
i probably lived in one of those when i was a little girl  
oh  
well that would be an eye opener wouldn't it  
i mean right next to us is such a pitiful country  
i know  
sometimes i wish we'd help them out instead of going all across the world   and helping some countries i never even heard of  
it seems to me we are  
it would be to our benefit to strengthen that country   right on our borders  
but what do i know right  
i'm just sitting at home and   and uh doing laundry today and certainly not up  
nobody has called me from washington  
oh but uh anyway how did you get on this program  
oh you do work at t i  
oh you're in lewisville  
oh yeah  
i just went by that place  
we were going to a football playoff game a week or so ago which we lost  
and uh   we went by  
that's the first time i'd seen it  
it looked really nice  
a lot of trees there  
it looked like a pretty little a sight  
sure  
oh sure  

well my husband works at t i over on central  
uh why we're living in arlington i'm not so sure  
but   he works over there  
and  
we did it last time  
and uh so i'm just my daughter and i are registered this time  
i don't know  
they didn't even ask him back  
that was weird wasn't it  
but like i said i hardly ever get any calls this time  
and i can never find anybody  
so um  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've had the same experiences  
all right around here  
yeah  
i don't know uh  
i wonder if they really  
i don't know if they could possibly teach a machine to recognize all the different accents  
there's just there's so many with this one town   you know  
even in some families some people talk a little bit different  
my husband is from new jersey  
and one of his sisters does things that really sound funny to me  
and he doesn't pronounce them at all that way  
and that's one family right  
of course i think everybody in new jersey sounds a little bit funny  
but  
you know how that goes  
oh god  
well i'm surprised she hasn't told us to cut it off yet  
sometimes she says at night   or or or [overloads]  
so please end your conversation  
right  
well do you have any more words of wisdom about the subject  
you don't have any kids you want to send over here  
well is  
well uh i don't know if mine would want to go live in the ghetto  
well one of them is real idealistic  
she might  
uh_huh  
oh well i'm at   work  
and i just happened to walk back into my office  
i've been gone for a little while  
uh_huh  
i don't i haven't ever made any  
i just receive them  
i haven't here lately  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
well i never gave it any thought myself  
i was hoping you could tell me what you thought  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't know  
i think maybe it's it should stay on a voluntary basis  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think it would be good for uh everyone to do something like that  
but i i guess i don't feel like it should be something forced upon you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have a girlfriend that every time her son starts taking things for granted she threatens to send him to mexico with her relatives and let him get a taste of that for a while  
wouldn't it though  
uh_huh  
it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i work at t i  
uh_huh  
yeah  
hang on a minute  
no  
i don't think so  
yeah  
patty might  
i'm back  
but how did you get on it  
oh  
uh_huh  
really  
huh  
uh_huh  
i don't get too many  
huh  
the first time i used to get calls from far away too  
like maryland   and new jersey  
and but now it just seems like it's in the dallas fort worth area that i get calls from  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
oh i agree  
oh shoot  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i sure don't  
no  
no kids  
oh shoot  
my sister is  
i'd be more suited to that than her  
she's just bugs  
uh well you know uh i think public service is a worthy thing  
and as a matter of fact there are a lot of programs uh such as peace corps that promote that  
probably the most popular one but uh one that is not typically recognized as such is the boy scouts  
uh i know that because my son is a a scout now and uh is thinking about his eagle  
and uh in order to get eagle you have to have merit [badges] in uh citizenship in the community   citizenship in the nation citizenship in the world  
and you have to do a public service project   uh in which leadership is the key element  
i uh i think the question is [posed] somewhat strangely because uh it's talking about a requirement for   public service  
and of course the peace corps the boy scouts is a is a voluntary activity  
uh  
right  
of course uh uh military service falls under the category uh of a public service  
and so uh one of the things that would fulfill the at least the nominal uh qualifications set forth in the charge is military service or draft  
uh  
but i agree with you that probably is not what was [comprehended]  
there are other   things such as civil service   uh which many people uh are lifelong employees of  
but i suspect that was not what they had in mind either  
more   of a voluntary kind of thing  
or uh  
uh_huh  
why  
why is that  
oh no  
no  
no  
it's to defend the nation against external evils  
well it depends on whether you whether we figure that we have that we have a defense oriented military or   an aggressive aggression oriented military  
okay  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i i think that might be talking referring to uh something kind of uh alternative to the draft you know  
either you have uh military service or some sort of alternative [nonmilitary] service for a few years  
right  
right  
huh right  
right  
well  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  

for for years there has been an idea [batted] around of having some sort of alternative uh public service for uh young people to go into uh after high school  
uh kind of in lieu of the draft for for people who don't uh who you know are conscientious objectors or don't otherwise want to be in the military you know  
say okay  
well you can go into the military  
or you can do this other thing for one or two years to kind of serve the community and and learn about things  
and it's interesting because i i'm not a particular fan of the military  
but i have seen a lot of people a lot of young guys go in that don't have really a clue as to what they want to do with their lives and aren't terribly disciplined you know even just personal discipline about what they want to do  
and they come out  
and they they at least have now they have at least some [marginally] [marketable] skills and more discipline  
and they have uh you know in in some cases they have a greater self esteem because they can say they can see that you know if i do something or submit my own will to the will of the [sargent] or whatever at least for a short period of time i can accomplish a lot  
and it it's a good lesson for a lot of young men to learn that they don't need to be you know cowboys  
they don't need to be out there and uh you know constantly [flaunting] their ego to get things accomplished  
and you know for some for some young men that's good  
for me it would have been lousy idea uh because   i i did have the personal discipline  
and i went   to college for four years and got out you know  
so but uh you know for some people that's good  
i i don't particular like the fact that it's the military you know  
and the whole point of the military is to kill people essentially as as an instrument of u s policy  
well that's one view  
and and you know and that that's another debate  
but uh it's uh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and well it's it it seems pretty aggressive oriented  
i mean you you look at the last military action which was in the persian gulf and wasn't anywhere near the united states  
and it was uh you know it was definitely a [projection] of u s power on the other side of the [globe]  
so at at any rate this is getting off the topic  
but  
my my point was that there is for people who don't want to do the military service there it would be neat if there were an alternative that could instill the same sort of personal discipline and sense of purpose and uh sense of community that the boy scouts  
i don't know if you feel the same  
but uh when it comes to telling kids that they have to do uh two or three years of service into some kind of community i don't know if that's appropriate for a government to suggest that and say you know you have to do two years of community service before you can be a citizen  
or you know in the aspect that we're telling kids that this is what is suggested for you to do  
and uh i as far as a high school course i could see it as uh maybe a social uh sociology course   to where a student would get credits if they were to be involved with some kind of community type of program  
and   to me that's fine to have a student do that for like four or even a year  
but to tell them that they had to do two years thereafter post high school of community service i i'm not quite sure if that's appropriate for anybody to be telling somebody they have to do  
uh_huh  
exactly  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
exactly  
and doing it for a purpose that they want  
the other thing is this  
i have thought about this on many times when you get these uh young troubled teenagers that uh don't have like the perspective of uh uh of the community a sense of community or perhaps the sense that they may have problems  
but there are other people out in the community that may have problems  
then i can see it as like maybe a [probationary] type of thing  
you have to do so much as far as in   community service now  
if they were you know abusive type of situation perhaps then they would have to work with the victims of abuse  
or if uh they destroyed some property around the uh area then they would have to do uh to restore it and perhaps uh work uh for the community to [beautify] it or whatever  
but   i could see that working in you know cases where it might be young teenagers getting in trouble with law and teaching him that there is a whole community that is effected when they strike out and do their crimes or whatever  
and that's i think they have done that  
and judges have said well you know this is what you're going to get for a you know a misdemeanor or something  
you may end up having to do some kind of community service  
so i could see that as something that might occur in the court system for those that are troubled  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
we sure do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and there's a lot of anger sure you know especially if they haven't went through treatment  
and they dealt with other people in the uh system of prisons which uh you you always deal with somebody that's a little bit worse than yourself next to you or whatever  
i would say the crimes would probably be you know  
if you went in for a certain crime there might somebody that has done a crime even worse than what you have  
so you're dealing with people uh that may uh be an influence later on  
and uh an issue of anger would be is that i went to prison for a year or two  
but i didn't get any rehabilitation  
or uh you know but then again those that have physically assaulted somebody uh that's extremely tough to put them into some kind of program out in   the community if they're of a violent sort and to say  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um well that's a good idea to have it as a study program for school where it be more on a voluntary basis   as opposed to uh mandatory  
yeah  
a  
yeah  
i kind of agree with that  
uh i don't think  
you know it they should have they should have the same rights as anyone else   you know  
it shouldn't be uh anything shouldn't be mandatory other than i guess like uh when you come to paying taxes or something like that  
uh or if it's beneficial in some kind of way then maybe   uh people be more eager to do it  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh that's a good idea  
uh i think they should have more programs like that  
and i think uh us being taxpayers we pay for uh people that's in jail or   in trouble anyway  
so they should be programs set up by the government that could utilize those forms in different areas  
and   i i agree wholeheartedly  
yeah  
but uh the thing is is that's not enough of that kind of stuff going on uh  
because like you say is a lot of crimes and stuff or misdemeanors  
so why have someone in jail for a year or two for a misdemeanor  
and sometimes you know putting them in jail doesn't really help   because there's nothing in there that would rehabilitate   rehabilitate   rehabilitate them  
and then when they get out they  
because they have this [stigmatism] of being in jail  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
and  
in what way are you talking about  
right  
yeah  
right  
see i  
yeah  
and i also thought that uh that would interfere with with college work  
and they didn't  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true   yeah  
when do they assume this is going to be proposed or mandatory  
or when  
when  
what what year are they looking at  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
i thought that was your line  
uh what age group are are they looking at  
eighteen  
yeah  
that seems  
normally that would interfere with college i would think  
i moved  
maybe that is that's part of it  
oh  
oh um  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's kind of scary  
i'm not near that age  
i'm way over it  
but i   do have children to think about you know  
that's kind of scary  
right  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh  
i do too  
he's he's helped out in a lot of ways  
yeah  
he's he's from dallas  
or he's in the dallas area  
and uh he's very well known around here  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think he's got a very good chance  
so there's a lot of people here pulling for him  
so i don't know  
we'll just see  
how  
did you uh you work in the uh computer business is that what you said  
oh okay  
uh my husband works for uh texas instruments  
and so uh that's how we found out about the switchboard  

okay  
uh mandatory service yeah i don't think it's a good idea uh  
because we'd have to change the constitution to to uh allow uh involuntary [servitude] uh in service to the government  
and i'm not sure that we could   do that in such a way that we could avoid [winding] up a slave state  
it's  
i like the   idea  
well i like the idea of volunteer voluntary support  
i mean they might be able to ah say that anyone who does that uh gets certain benefits that would not be available to someone who didn't do it  
but to use force uh really sets us a a essentially says that your body there's a title to your body and that title belongs to the government  
and you are not a free american   citizen  
the idea itself of service is good  
and when someone is say out of high school and not sure about college or out of college and not ready to go into a career and they're not committed to huge amounts of debt that's the best time to be able to do work that doesn't pay very well  
yeah  
unless it were tied   directly  
you know if someone were studying something take something obscure somebody was studying economics the state department could offer to send them to the soviet union for two years to teach them how to run their country  
as an extreme example right  
but in reality i think what you would wind up with is a political football where they would see all these body counts that they can use to for their own will  
and i just don't think it would work  
well they're not  
it's been suggested  
and it's sort of a topic of debate  
every time it comes up it gets voted down  
the people who are [promilitary] oppose because they don't want people to have the right to opt out of the military into something else  
and the people who are [proconstitution] oppose it on the grounds that the government shouldn't even have the right to enforce you to join the military unless   the united states is actually under attack  
so mostly it's just kind of one of those things that goes away  
ah they've got a noisy line  
yeah  
well it's somewhere between here and there  
uh-oh eighteen  
the draft age  
yeah  
wait a  
yeah  
let me see if i can get on a cleaner line  
if it's my line uh  
yeah  
it is my line  
i was on a radio phone  
all right  
that's better  
yeah  
now their  
they they figure that they can draft you at eighteen  
they usually do draft you at nineteen  
and that's the   age they're looking at  
and of course they're this one the women would be equally grabbed  
and they're almost on the verge of saying that you if you're going to draft men you're going to have to draft women  
and you're going to have to put them in front of the guns just the same  
so uh if you're near that age or you know somebody who is   uh you know be aware of that  
yeah  
oh okay  
yep  
and you don't want them sent off to the middle east to   help defend bush from saddam after bush gets done [arming] him  
you know we only find out about that a year after the fact  
so it's another thing  
when in doubt don't trust the government at all  
it's really reached   that point  
hey you're in perot country  
i'm really thinking that this guy might be good for us  
i've been  
it seemed dangerous  
i thought is the guy a closet fascist  
and then i find out that he helped rid the united states of the [gablers]  
yeah  
okay  
well i'm in the computer biz too  
so i know he's well known in the industry  
they uh  
i i have high hopes for him  
and i think that you know if he could get people interested and encouraged and to believe that the government was actually for us then i'm for him  
i mean in the democratic primary i'm going to vote for brown just because i kind of like brown and his attitude  
but when uh when it really comes down in the fall i think i know where it's going to go  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you know  
yeah  
i'm an end user  
i teach people how to use macintoshes and how to buy equipment and desktop publishing magazine production and things related to that  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh that's their project too isn't it  
i found about it on the network  
well i don't know
but uh i'm twenty two years old
and i think it would be uh it's not a good choice to do that
i mean you have uh everything here you know like uh the army and everything else is all voluntary
and that's the way you're going to dedicate yourself to to that you know to your job
if it's voluntary
i mean if you don't like it
i mean if you're like in other places where they have a you know mandatory you know services yeah
because i mean the thing is is that whenever you
i mean you seen like for example you know like the war just that went on
you saw you saw that some people were not going you know people that that had all the benefits that were sitting around for years you know maybe three four years getting paid uh by the government or you know because when when the time came they said no way
you know when they when that was their job they joined it because they wanted to
or
well you know some people didn't didn't have the you know the money they said it's a good way of uh coming in
but those are public service
i mean you
i mean you would be getting paid very little
you know or anything at all
and um you would just hate it so much that whatever you had to do would be just you know it's like you know
yeah
i mean you wouldn't you wouldn't do it
i mean the the thing would be that it would throw you you know totally the wrong way you would be there because you had to be there
but yet you would still respond to everything in a very you know negative way you know it's like
do this
why
you know i i have a i i don't have to do anything you know it's like what am i going to do
if i sit here if i stay here for a whole year they'll let me go and then i can get back to my life
yeah
i don't think there's any way it can you know like they say this proposal would would get anywhere because of the
i mean first of all i've never heard of it until this this phone call you know
and uh if it is actually proposed and taken you know to the government or something
yeah
to to actually support it
you know it would be just like saying that you know what what are you crazy
i mean i mean you know we had enough of the abortion issue that's still going around
that you guys want to bring you know the next you know
yeah
but see
but you're going there
and you know what you're getting into
yeah
yeah
but it's it's not like saying like i'm born and then when i reached a certain age i'm going to have to do something you know
it's uh it's not by choice
it's like everything else you know it's like if i want to do it
i'll do it
but you know it's like you know
and um yeah
i have a background
i'm from argentina
and uh everybody everybody that is [unlucky] enough has to do the military service
and but you go into this whole big lottery every year
and you know each uh your last three [digits] of your document you know like your social security number
you're matched up with other numbers right
from from uh one to a thousand
and so if your number is below four hundred you're not going to have to do it say
it's between four hundred and six hundred
you might have to do it
depending how many people are in your class and you know
and like you
the they
right
and if it's above six hundred you're going to have to do it
and i got one thirty one
and so
yeah
i didn't have to do it
but the thing was that you have you know the whole the whole nation's watching you know like if it's your class everybody that's your same age is listening to the radio waiting for them to announce the number you know
and it's like
and then you know you have people you know going you know it's like everywhere you know you have some people that are glad some people that are saying shit and the other people that are going oh my god i'm somewhere in the middle
you know it's like wow am i going to have to do it
yeah
and you know
but it's my brother goes everybody in my family had to do it
and they go you know it's just a year and a half of your life
that's that's totally wasted you don't do anything else
there's no time
and you don't do anything
you know you go there
you train you get treated like shit and then you you i mean then you get out
right
and so i mean but you know it's like the thing is is that you know you just get treated i mean one one of the guys that was doing it was uh like uh a waiter at one of the restaurants that you know like the military had
and that was his job
you know he got he got you know like three months of uh you know physical training
and then he got to serve all these people
you know
but that's what they do
i mean that's a year and a half of your life
that's that you don't do anything
that you have to be there you know maybe five times you know five times a week and that you know you have
i guess a round robin schedule or something
and uh
no
oh there
i don't
i don't think there is any pay wait
i'm not sure
because what happens is you you get to like to ride buses for free
well you do
i guess you do get paid
but the thing is is that you know people are what if they see you in the uniform right
like for example you know like when they go around the train asking you for tickets like short distant trains they won't ask you if you if you're wearing your military uniform for a ticket they'll just skip you
and uh you know it's like they they consider that
but it would be the same way here you know
it's like if if you had to do it you know you have a big sign i'm sorry
i don't get paid you know
it's like please let me ride for free
you know it's like i'm i'm living off dad for these wonderful two years which i have to do you know it's like
and then the other thing is when i get out of college at twenty eight with my b s you know it's like by the time
yeah
and so that would be that would be see there are too many things that go against it that would be ridiculous
so oh well it's been
seven minutes
i don't i well i don't i don't think they'll ever pass this
i i i'm just going to laugh
if i ever see it in the newspapers
i i mean i don't read the newspaper that much
but i never heard anything about it
so so
and but then you won't have to do it
just imagine sometimes your kids you'll be saying well it's your job go do it you know
yeah
really then you'll have to say see in my age
i didn't have to do it
yeah
oh well okay
i don't know much about this topic
let me ask you
does she spell her name with two n and an e
oh okay
well then we're all right
okay
that would have been totally weird
i have no idea who listens to this
there you go
yeah
oh right
i didn't know there was a proposal to serve young people to have a year of public service
yeah
i didn't
i didn't either
are you from pennsylvania
are you from pittsburgh
ha
we're not suppose to do this
i i can i'm from originally from beaver county oh my god
no
i could smell an accent a mile away
are you in pennsylvania or dallas right now
oh okay
yes
i'm in dallas
my husband's a t i
oh how nice
i don't know
i'd first of all is there a proposal in the
i mean is there a legitimate proposal i didn't see that on the list
but i guess
it's unless it's
yeah
yeah
really
i guess i would say that if there is one i would think that they are talking eighteen years or twenty one years of age
but i personally don't think it's a good idea for a year i would look at it more as a uh internship kind of thing
maybe three months
you know ninety days to six months or something
um but more than that i would have a problem with it
enforcement yeah
the way the the way the voice might have worded
it it sounded almost mandatory as opposed to elected
and i would obviously i mean not obviously but i would be against anything like that being mandatory
right
thirty something
there you go
yeah
that and thus think i mean i don't know
i went to uh even though i'm from that part of the country
i did go to high school in uh the midwest and chicago and i we had it was mandatory that we took civics every year
yeah
it was a mandatory
and then you had to take a test that showed you had a certain knowledge of state government and state service
and they did offer actually certain types of public service [internships] that i think is a very good idea that that's mandatory
but i don't know how any
i mean the whole thing sounds a little bit ludicrous but that's my word
uh_huh
right
and when they're younger
not when they're getting into undergraduate and college age
situations
i don't
yeah
and i maybe that's not what they meant maybe that's just the way both of us took the [wording] but i i think it's a good i idea to get younger people involved in the government in some way or the public
you know
it's just they they're not aware of why things cost what they do why things operate the way they do
and i just
you mean in in the area of geographic region you're in
uh_huh
grass roots
uh_huh
huh
oh my
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
they do that
i mean in in in north texas they do that quite a bit where you know if you want to go to this particular movie or concert
or a [discounted] thing the big thing down here is [rodeos] uh if you yeah
really pennsylvania listening you know i just talked to my brother it's like really weird
coincidence
yeah
um i really don't think they can do it though
i mean i i you know i think that things that your talking about like anything that [emphasizes] the social services with the public service
i
uh_huh
are they
are you are you in northern virginia
or are you in the district of columbia yeah
okay
yeah
that's
we're in a
yeah
that's
we're in a near next to a town called plano texas
and it's very um it's like falls church i mean montgomery county i'm familiar with where you're at
um
and they really that's a good way to put it
i know i went to high school in the city of chicago at an inner city school
although i lived in a different area near a place called evanston illinois
and the reason that i stayed at the school i did was because at evanston [township] which back then was like one of the three larger schools in the country
everybody was already doing the um driving the [beamers] and you know with nothing to think that um they didn't have five hundred dollar [wardrobes] you know every week
that kind of thing
i i just i just think the one thing they do so strongly about is what your saying that i don't think kids have a sense of civil responsibility
i think then that's a step away from even duty
i don't think they even have a sense of the responsibility
uh_huh
this is true
yeah
yeah
i think the one thing
the the there's a program called uh [habitat] for humanity that jimmy carter started the former president
and i think i think programs like that with what you just talked about going on in your area local area at and something like that would be good
you know but not that specifically
but things along that of of activity
formed yeah
they're already yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i agree with you like [prejunior] high
and and um see make it you know a curriculum oriented type of proposal as opposed to anything [mandated] like the old selective service or anything
so it sounds like we're in agreement with that
anything any else we can
we can talk about
talk about pittsburgh
yeah
your right
it's like
i mean this is very because i'm not in that part of the i don't care if they listen
i'm not in that part of the country
i don't want to offend you
i
and i'm not in their part of the country
so what i hear all my best friends are in western pennsylvania
and it's like oh
yeah
i i do
i mean i didn't grow up totally there because of a parent parental divorce in my family
but um you know it was always shuttle back and forth
so uh it's like two homes
but yeah
i miss it
yeah
yeah
really is
they've cleaned it up a lot though
i mean i don't think we'll get in trouble doing that
yeah
i lived there in my early twenties too before i moved here
that's weird
i hope we never
have you had any thoughts on this
uh_huh
how old are you
if i can ask
how old are you
okay
so we're about the same age
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i think this is also a a broader scope i think
uh they're talking about uh just service in general and um i i did a lot of this sort of thing in in college in the summers
um i worked uh in uh mexico doing community service uh for two summers while i was in college
and you know it was an incredibly worthwhile experience
so in theory
i'm in favor of this
but on the other hand i'm an [economist] and uh just like uh well the military has a tremendous uh you know responsibility for security and everything
but there's also an equally tremendous budget
so i guess on the other hand as as as as good as this idea is it's got to be paid for uh even though it's uh you know it it's it's never quite voluntary people have to be paid if they're asked to serve for a year in any capacity so uh you know uh uh the idea is great
where does the money come from
uh_huh
it should it should or shouldn't it should
uh_huh
but i don't think it was voluntary
i think it was just a year of required service there was nothing about voluntary
that's why as an [economist] my my my ears [perked] up
uh_huh
uh_huh
and doing it at a less expensive rate then
uh_huh
of course you'll probably get another whole layer of bureaucracy running it
i mean let's face it
the military is probably one of the most bureaucratic agencies so i i i you know on the one hand my immediate reaction to it was oh it's wonderful
you know i think people do owe their country something whether it they serve in the military of for those who for one reason or another can't want to serve in another area and have talents in another area
great
but then who pays and if they have to
and they don't go into the the other labor force you're losing money in terms of taxing from other jobs
i mean so there's it's not it's not a real cut and dry
thing
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
and just marching around waiting for a war
yeah
uh we did have something similar to a volunteer thing with uh which was although volunteer there was a minimum payment uh like vista which was a domestic peace corps some time back and probably coming from texas
you may have bumped into some of that
yeah
and i know the what the army has a corps of engineers which uh could probably be one of those areas that uh could be uh [privatized] or [civilianized] or whatever
some of the areas there you know for domestic use
i've always wondered why the army corps uh of engineers took care of floods you know in in certain areas why was
uh_huh
uh_huh
but of course there are many private engineering schools that are absolutely [superb] yeah
the main that made
uh_huh
yeah
and of course back during the depression when the government started doing things like uh c c c the civilian conservation corps
so i uh you know there's a bit of a history of people serving the government
and it doesn't have to be as the military you know if you go in just as a an [enlistee] uh the wage isn't anything great
so if if you're asking for a year of service it doesn't have to be a wage comparable to the uh if it's a required year
it doesn't have to be a wage comparable to the private sector
so it could be you know a wage enough to for have someone to live on to eat
and if uh if in fact
so i guess that it a lot of thinking would have to be done if it were implemented uh_huh
how it's administered and how
you know uh just the who uh who who would be [exempted] because i'm sure there would be exemptions to it uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
or even or even doing paperwork for a police system you know
uh_huh
yeah
homeless homeless and all
i think they're going to cut us off
oh oh
yeah
but i think you know in terms of the the the pressing problems in the united states today that in terms of the homeless in terms of the state of the the state of the prisons
um there are probably a lot of things that could be done uh on a volunteer basis
so maybe they should do pilot projects to try it out and see how it works
yeah
well listen
it was good talking with you
that's
you have to start the new year out by the way happy new year
i hadn't really heard that before
uh i had at one point thought about doing the peace corps myself many years ago
uh you know many years ago
it seemed like they had uh uh involuntary [enlistment] and mainly like in the fifties i know a lot of uh men that were into the military you had to go into the military
uh i don't know about that
a lot of people
i don't think would like it because it's going to interrupt college plans
but a lot of people don't have plans so for them
it might give them a little help to uh get uh some kind of more awareness about the world and be of some use for a while
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
i haven't
no
but uh i had known of the peace corps because i had a cousin in the peace corps
course you know it was much more publicized in the sixties
i don't even know if they have it today i had a friend though in the seventies join uh vista which is a similar program
although you stay within the u s which can be very beneficial too
i mean a lot of times there is a lot of help we can do
within the u s
uh and that program i thought was excellent
uh i just don't think they even i don't know if they have those programs anymore
if they even try to publicize it and recruit and i think that's a shame because both of those programs are excellent
i don't remember i guess i haven't seen it recently
not that
you know not down here any
i don't i don't remember seeing anything about vista or or the peace corps recently
right
right
yeah
i think it would be extremely beneficial to just about everybody
uh i i could see that there would be some people that you know would throw up their arms about it and go i'm going to harvard and i you know
this isn't something i want to do
but uh you're right
it would give everybody a better perspective of uh you know ourselves and what we have maybe make us appreciate what we have a little more so
uh_huh
um
right
i had uh twice now been a big sister you've heard of big brothers big
sisters
and uh i have had uh two little sisters and even though they were local to me it was almost being in a different world because both of my little sisters came from very poor backgrounds
and of course they don't have usually normal families
i mean there's not a a mother and a father and they live in pretty poor housing and uh their education is very lacking because their parents you know don't uh encourage them to go to school
uh so that was beneficial to me as well as the child because uh made me appreciate my background a little more
and i helped to give this person uh a more one on one idea of there can be a different life than what they've had
and uh to uh experience some things that otherwise they wouldn't be able to get out and do
it's usually a year uh
and they try to find somebody in the local area to you
and uh you know the age group that you want to work
well actually i've i you know it kind of caught me by surprise i haven't ever really thought about uh you know mandatory public service
i obviously believe in public service
and you know think it's a good idea
i i'm not sure if they would get the service
they anticipate if they force it
do you understand what i'm saying
i mean you know you're going to get a lot
more commitment a lot more desire a lot more uh maybe quality time effort energy from somebody who really truly wants to be there
so although i believe in it
i'm not sure requiring it would be the way to go
uh_huh
that's true
if there were enough opportunities
well that or have something available in that field you know
and and when you go to employers then is it really a public service thing or more of an internship
you know i don't know
i i definitely agree
and i i had you know some family that did serve in the peace corps
and i i always thought it was a wonderful thing
uh i i do think that if people have the opportunity to do it
it's something that you know they won't forget it [enriches] your life
and gives you like you said a a good understanding of oh well what do i want to say we take so much we take what we have for granted
you know we're very blessed in this country
and and we take so much for granted because we really don't realize uh how other cultures and other other countries live
so i i definitely agree that it's it's good
i just you know i i to to require it
i think would take a lot of [forethought] and planning if you want to get the type of service you know that you're anticipating
that you're hoping for
yeah
that's true
that's true
and then i guess i can look around you know i automatically when the uh switchboard suggested peace corps
i kind of like you i thought international or going out of the country
and i i look around though
and there's an awful lot of public service that could be done within our own communities
and our own you know a lot of times people say i don't want to go somewhere else
i want to help my own community
you know united way i want my dollars to work here
something like that so that might also be a motivating factor then
minor offenses yeah
i agree
i think that's a very good idea what you said the field you're in what field
are you in
does it okay
so you have to do it in that field actually like if you like
yeah
that's true
well and it might also make them realize too this isn't what i thought it was
and i don't want to do this
that's a good idea
not for any longer than about ten seconds
no
i have no
i have no real desire to do that
yeah
yeah
i don't doesn't appeal to me either
where i work uh there's a guy who actually joined the peace corps he worked here for a couple years
and then he went to [ghana] in in africa
and uh
well he hasn't come back yet
yeah
he went just recently
well there's
yeah
but there's actually been a [resurgence] of people getting into it i guess part partly for economic times
and uh i don't know any other reason
but lot of people are been getting back into it
i think
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
yeah
yeah
i don't i'm not sure i mean i guess the motivation is partly you want to help these people
but i think it's a lot of people join it just to go to another country and kind of for the adventure of it
i guess
um
oh yeah
yeah
seems a little rough for that
but uh
i don't know i kind of you know i don't mind going to europe you know traveling and seeing the sights but i don't want to have to go to africa to
no
maybe
they they'll they'll fly you over there and back for free
but doesn't seem worth it
what type of work do you do now
okay
for who do you work for you work for
oh really
i didn't know they had an office up there
sanders [avionics] okay
yeah
i've heard of sanders corporation were they bought out by [lockheed] and all of that
okay
right
that's that's kind of the work that i do
so that's why i've heard of sanders i work for
i work for georgia tech
in research
right
that's right
yeah
you're just kind of [biding] your time
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
it we're essentially the same although some some laboratories are hiring if if they can find new technology uh you know
or make an efforts to get into the commercial markets
okay
uh_huh
yeah
probably not as much so
right
i guess my i you know i come out am sitting on the fence
but i have some concerns about uh you know if you require someone to do this for a year or two
that's a big chunk out of someone's life
uh certainly you know there could be advantages and things to be learned
but on the other hand you know
how do you enforce it
or what if they are just totally against it
then does it really benefit anybody
you know
so
right
uh_huh
right
or might teach them a little more [empathy] towards those who you know have problems and need help with things
well i was thinking too uh we usually think of the peace corps as going overseas to do something
but if they required this where you stay in the u s and you know benefit the people here and perhaps too
the fact that we have more elderly people now
uh you know it could be an advantage to them
um
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well and probably too even those who might initially be opposed once they got into it
then they you know would see that hey this this is giving me some benefit as well
i mean they they might not express it in words
so much
but just sort of get in step with with uh what's going on
and and really enjoy it
um
yeah
uh_huh
i think a lot of our young people need to learn that
older ones too
i know of few of those
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i don't understand that either
that's that's tough
yeah
yeah
well another thing too is if you have uh some young people who are really gifted and who are leaning towards maybe the uh math and science
and that sort of thing which they say we have a shortage of taking them away from that which they are centered on might you know be a a bad thing to take a couple years out of
beginning you know their life in that respect
they might you know get off on some other track
but you know it's hard to say
uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
and she didn't
get around to it very much
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
but i guess that's not a terrible alternative if you've you know you've done something that's not too terrible
but they want to slap your hand a little bit
better than just sitting in jail all day not doing anything
but but yeah
i agree with your point
it it might not make the other person feel like you were really wanting to be there
yeah
well
yeah
enjoyed talking to you
all right
yes
it is
do you have young people
yeah
three small ones
okay
would you feel like those youngsters could be raised with a balanced life understanding all of the aspects of their lives
if they did not perform some kind of public service
uh_huh
uh_huh
well you're looking at it from a perspective of something equivalent to the draft where you take two years out of your life
and and serve as as a a in the military
however they didn't say that it would be required to be two consecutive years
what about the option of requiring these young people to have two years of public service in association perhaps with their education and that they get you know how we have uh life credits in college
experience credits why could those not apply in exactly that way you actually are using that as a part of your college education
and it's a quote public service course
uh_huh
well it would be like an elective it would be the equivalent of an elective do you want to serve in the peace corps or do you want serve uh you know on a on a some sort of a social agency where you do volunteer work or perhaps you'd like to do reading for the blind for a couple of years in your spare time
and it might be three hours a week
that's what a class is
three or four hours a week then they have a balanced view
i think of what is out there
i know that a lot of young people are raised in a very protected environment mom and dad don't want them exposed to the kind of things that they had to [endure] or they had to go through they want a better life for their kids and they do put them in this wonderful little cocoon
and then when they get out in the real world and life does give them a good smack they go to their knees because they haven't had the experience in helping people therefore they don't have experience in seeking help or in being helped [gracefully] uh i myself have done a lot of volunteer work
but i am very [apprehensive] about accepting help i'm very independent
and i don't care much for that
and i raised my children to be very independent
and yet they did their share of volunteer work we went to the nursing homes and carried christmas gifts and we visited sick people those are all good community service [behaviors] and activities
and they don't require a big bite of your life
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
defense
uh_huh
right
right
but you did serve
in in a different respect
and that's what i'm saying you don't have to go into the peace corps in order to be of of service to the community
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
i do a great deal of you know i would rather expend the personal energy than just shell out a few bucks and let my conscience rest
i feel like that you i don't know the the benefit to you
is much of greater value if you are physically or emotionally involved in what you're doing it's no big deal to be emotionally involved in writing a check
i mean you know you don't really get involved and you don't really [comprehend] what you're [accomplishing] and i think that's important
and that's the reason that i think there there should be some [provision] even if it's not mandatory
at least provide the avenue through which young people can do volunteer work even if it is not a two year [stint] in the peace corps
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
you've got to remember though the nature of the person we're when we're involved with here
you you can expect someone like that perhaps to be willing to volunteer to get expend the energy to go out and find
the area where they match very well
but it might be of interest to put in some sort of a formal system like they do the screening system in the military service okay
you know what are your interests and what are your [aptitudes] let's see if we can match you to a job that you prefer particularly with you have the education to deal with it
i don't know that may or may not be uh a useful choice
but i do know that there are a great deal of young people out there who would say why do i want to go you know out and get mosquito bit and sleep on a hard ground when i can sit here in this [cushy] bed and not go out and and uh i can have my music and drive my cars and have fun through the summer
and there are a lot of them who just do not have that sense of consciousness
and i think maybe something in place might build that
um i think there should be some control
but on the same hand i think you should be able to like
and some places i think you should be allowed to carry guns
no
i'm not
well i'm kind of i'm like two hours north of pittsburgh
and there's sometimes i won't go down there at night you know
no
and my fiancee is about an hour from d c
and you wouldn't catch me
dead down there
no
uh_huh
yeah
exactly
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
exactly
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
oh i didn't even know that
yeah
well that's the way it is
i think anywhere
because like this in d c
like my fiancee said like um he went to the doctors one time and it was located in d c
and he had to park his car
and his car was like two blocks away from the clinic
and the clinic had someone escort him to his car because it got dark
it was after [sunset] yeah
that's that's just ridiculous you know
i mean that's just down right ridiculous
and i know driving through pittsburgh
we got lost down there one time and we were trying to come home and um we went through this one section
and there were you know all the people standing on the corner and stuff
and i was just like wind up my window
lock my door
you know i mean it was like
don't you dare stop
i don't care if there's a red light
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
exactly
like i would call my fiancee and well he moved now
so he's in a much nicer area
but he lived like twenty minutes out of downtown d c
and i would be talking to him on the phone and i could hear sirens and i could hear yelling and screaming and i'm like what's going on
and he'd go to the window
and he'd watch a policeman chase someone down the sidewalk and i'm like
and the thing was he lived on the ground floor of the apartment building
and i was just like would you please move
just get out of there please i mean i just don't think it's safe
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
exactly
yeah
yeah
well um i come from a large family
and all my brothers hunt
so we have hunting guns
but they're always locked up at all times
other than when they're being used and even like whenever you know like like if three of them are out hunting and there's still three guns left it's still locked you know
it's locked all the time
but as far as having anything else to protect ourselves we don't have anything you know
other than maybe a butcher knife
that's up on the wall you know
and what's your chances of getting to it or something
uh_huh
yeah
but i know my um roommate she's from
and that's right out of pittsburgh
and her father is a state policeman
and she has mace you know even to carry like i'm i'm at college
so even for her when she goes out at night if her
and i are out like if we walk to another building or something
we always take the mace with us
you know just because you know two girls walking but her mom sells real state
so her mom has a gun in her purse
at all times because she has to pick up strangers you know that you know people that you've never met and take them to these houses and they're in her car
so she he taught he has three daughters he taught all three daughters
and his wife how to shoot
and i can very well see his point
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
you know
and some you know i think that like when whenever i graduate i'll be moving to where my fiancee is
and i'll definitely want to have something if were a half hour away from d c
you know
but then again you know you would always keep it locked up or something then you know what is the sense of keeping it locked up because then if something would happen are you going to have time to actually go and [unlock] it
you know
and you you hate keeping something laid out like that
oh my gosh
oh my god
i just don't people are sick for doing that
they just wanted his money
uh_huh
yeah
iffy situation i think people should be allowed to protect themselves
but then you know
or you know so many families
you don't want to let a gun out because accidents do happen
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
like i had a neighbor
and he got shot in the stomach with a gun and to this day they declare that the gun was not loaded
and i just cannot get that now obviously the gun was loaded
you know
but to this day they swear the gun was not loaded
i'm just like well
i'm just like well then where did his stomach go you know
i mean he survived you know
but he was [wacky] and that's all there was to it
uh_huh
i i just think it was an iffy situation
hello larry
okay
well i you know i think that uh i think it's fine to do that
but i don't think it should be mandatory
i'm not
i'm not for having the equivalent of a draft
that's right
it uh
oh is that right
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'd say as far as government jobs
uh they could uh have some incentive for instance veterans get a preference when they're applying for a government job and i'd say people that had voluntarily served in such a thing as the peace corp or or something
could also get that
i don't know either
and i'm not sure we'd want it
right
i feel the same way
uh i think that uh i have nothing against the draft when you know when when the nation needs it uh
but obviously when you don't need it
you don't have a draft
and i feel the same thing with universal service if there was a need for it then i'd say uh possibly
i mean
but it would to be an emergency type thing
and i and i don't see that ever happening uh
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's that's true
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
i think about on on public service too
i think it has some some thought has to be given to what do we want these people to do in public service
and and that would have a bearing on what training should they have because if you wanted to have people you know as an incentive
you can have people go in after high school and then offer them assistance with their college and that way you'd be getting people who really didn't have an expertise in any particular but uh any particular field
but they'd be willing hands
so so to speak on public service projects
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
are you familiar with the civilian conservation corp back in the thirties
okay
well i mean it's before my time too
i i read about it
but you know in the height of the depression
the government employed people to go work on public service projects
that's right
like w p a
it was the same thing
and there were many uh a lot of the national parks were built up by the civilian conservation corp and a lot of w p a projects are still serving uh uh the nation
okay  
so what are your opinions on it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

not much  
i'm twenty eight  
so no  
i really don't remember anything about it  
i guess i was about ten when it ended  
right  
i was born in sixty two  
so when did it end  
yeah  
because i was ten  
and i don't remember a lot about anything at that time in my life very much in   great detail  
no  
i didn't  
but i i did read the book  
i  
do  
i have six years of college  
so i did read and study about the vietnam war though  
so i am pretty  
you know i'm more  
familiar with it than  
mine  
i think uh i think that there was a lot of rebellion in our nation and that i think it was the right thing to do to try and not to take away to you know just leave their freedoms there and to you know get rid of some of the atrocities that were going to  
i don't i don't know i don't really  
i'm tired of pacifist though  
see on the other hand i'm a  
i'm really struggling with it  
am i a pacifist physical pacifist i'm a christian  
and i believe that the real warfare is not with saddam hussein or the north vietnamese  
but it's in spiritual [kingdoms] and that the real warfare is done you know in your prayer closet on your knees  
so in a way in a sense i'm a pacifist  
but i'm really not you know what i'm saying  
i don't think just lay back and not do anything  
i think lets go to war  
but let's go to war praying  
and let's go to war for that way  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
still have a problem with uh  
you know i haven't come to an absolute conclusion on my opinion on this  
but and i know other christians would disagree with me  
my husband and i are kind of not even in agreement on this  
but we don't fight over it or anything  
but you know how can  
you know the bible says bless your enemies and bless those that curse you  
and it's like be gentle unto all men apt to teach patient kind  
so it's like how can you  
i don't know for me  
i don't know you know i can't say that i agree with vietnam because how can you be gentle unto all men and and then shoot them  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it is a difficult thing  
but then vengeance is mine [sayeth] the lord  
and i will pay  
so i think god is ultimately in charge of what goes on  
and i know like now in china he did all these terrible things  
and they were terrible  
and he was going to be accountable for them  
and but if you look back and you say wait a minute while he was in power he built roads he put in all the [temples] he he [unified] the chinese language  
it was impossible for missionaries to do accomplish anything in china   because of all that  
and so even in north and south vietnam i bet you'd see the same thing and that now he builds roads  
so then it  
and then he dropped dead twenty five years premature he dropped dead  
and so something good did come out of that in that now you see what i mean if like now  
uh_huh  
well bless your enemies if your enemy is hungry feed him  
if he if he needs your asks for your shirt give him your coat also  
so if the   the the the south vietnamese they asked us to help them  
right  
is that right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but then again yeah  
i'd say it is wrong to  
and i'm not saying president bush made the wrong decision  
i think i'm lacking in my  
i don't think i can come to a complete conclusion on how i feel about the vietnam war because i'm going to interpret that through the bible  
and i've kind of always  
i've been a christian five years  
and i've kind of avoided that that those the war things and how god approaches that because i think it's just now coming up to where i really feel like i need to come you know need to decide   what i feel  
yeah  
right  
they   left a woman and a child and a   the sheep  
yeah  
i know  
but then again though jesus the grace pushes you beyond the law you know what i'm saying  
like so he didn't just say don't kill your don't kill your enemies  
but not only don't kill them bless them  
you know and so therefore when we have an enemy come against us i really feel like that i really feel like i know i do feel this strongly that when if we had someone come and attack us the best way to handle it would be to bless them and [humbly] go to their other king or the other ruler and say what have we done to offend you  
what can we do to [rectify] this situation  
and that god would move in that [sovereignly]  
and he would get the glory though no king no  
bush wouldn't because it wouldn't make any sense you know what are i'm saying  
it would look absolutely ridiculously stupid  
but it would work out because if you follow the [scriptural] principals it's going to work out because those are that's the best way to do it you know  
but the thing is is that then god gets the glory not a president not a king  
and i think that's a problem for a lot of politicians is they want the glory  
uh_huh  

well i believe personally  
i  
i i woman always says my husband always goes three that i guess  
yeah  
if the one if somebody broke in my house i would pray that i would have this faith to to take authority over that  
and i know people that have done that  
i mean i know that there have been people who have had people break in their homes and just say i bind you in jesus name  
your  

i just  
and [rebuke] any enemy because i believe it's a spiritual war that's going on  
and it's not normal for someone to come into someone elses home  
that's not normal  
there's something going on there and that i would have [discernment] by the holy spirit to deal with pride over that  
do you see what i mean  
and then the same in vietnam you would you wouldn't handle vietnam the same way you would handle uh saddam [houssein]  
but i was i have a problem with all the killing  
but i'm not a new [ager] i don't believe  
i am not for one world government  
i'm not for all these new age things  
i i you know i don't have a problem with uh national identity  
and i'm an american  
and having different nations and all of this  
but i'm concerned about the killing that went on there because i just feel like god has a better way to handle it than that  
and  
well let me [preface] it  
i'm a  
i was a staff officer in vietnam in sixty nine and seventy  
and i'm in active reserve now  
so uh i'm probably not going to have the you think i would have  
uh it's  
i was an interesting in that i think that he gave the american people some uh uh a sense of the fact that that uh wars are really run by politicians  
uh i  
are you old enough to remember the war  
yeah  
well december seventy two was when we bombed north vietnam and then they released the prisoners in early seventy three   in that in that time frame  
i think   the the significant thing is is today did did you uh did you see barbara walters interview with schwartzkopf  
well what's   your perspective on it  
yes  
well well the difficulty i have is that uh are we our neighbor's keepers  
and this is what i find particularly difficult in that uh if we see injustice and weather it's in a uh you know chicago or uh   or or dallas i i think if we see it you know we see john wiley price hollering injustice i think that's wrong  
now the question is is was there injustice in vietnam  
or was   there [injust] in iraq kuwait  
the difficult i point is is to where do we step in  
and uh   and i think that we that's that's the part i have difficulty  
and the the other part is that the the when when your when your when your looking at vietnam and you say well is fifty eight thousand lives worth it  
and   i don't know that anything is worth fifty eight thousand lives  
well the   other issue is is is how do you allow uh how how do you allow injustice just like the the policeman in in los angeles   how could how could  
could you stand there and watch them beat that guy  
if your brother or your sister were being beaten   by the authorities do we step in  
well in some cases we would  
and i i think that's what makes it so difficult  
yeah  
but but the other the other difficulty is is that it's just if if you take the to to feed my sheep   and the question is who are my sheep  
and the idea do we go out and feed these people when they're hungry  
yes  
uh they did  
but i think the biggest difficulty is is that when your at an economy like south vietnam well the then reality uh the the poor farmer the poor rice farmer was going to pay taxes  
and the question is who was he going to pay it to  
uh the communists are the all [alleged] democrats uh  
democratic formed government  
and i i think that's i think i think uh that's a little was a difficult part there  
and and i  
we didn't understand the culture  
we couldn't uh  
we had uh we had a a young lady that was fourteen that worked on our in the unit i was [commander] of that appeared to be eight or nine years old  
and and the people looked like children  
i mean you couldn't imagine that one would would would [conceal] a bomb and   and do these kind of things  
i think socially it really destroyed a lot of the people that that went over and saw these people  
you just couldn't believe that they would that they would be mean and and and and drop bombs and kill people  
and then   we would turn around and and nay palm them you know  
if  
and i think there was a lot of a lot of tearing of emotions  
and i think that if anything that when he was saying the idea that we learned we we learned a lot from vietnam  
now it was it was in general bad  
but and i don't know the problem is now  
i'm i'm concerned a little bit   that now that the gulf war is on that we're going  
i think it was a good war  
and it was okay   to go beat up on people  
and i think that i think we need to a little more justice at home  
i'm not sure how we get that  
wonder if there's a connection there  
but  
well the difficulty is   is if you look in the old test meat and in the numbers of places that uh the lord went out and just simply struck down  
and that was part of the problem when they went into the promise land   that they that they uh they didn't destroy everybody  
and   and that that  
you know and you  
i think that's one of those things when we get to heaven we're going to ask god  
why did you do it that way  
yeah  
well and i i  
and even if the even at the local level when somebody's assaulted   what do you do turn the other cheek  
yeah  
uh i have uh i guess a lot of thoughts about the vietnam war um  
i i guess i feel like i was pretty young while it was going on  
and so there's probably a lot of things i remember and a lot of things that i really didn't have a clue as to what was happening  
um looking back like maybe some of the things that i know now i i'm not sure i do believe it was worth the cost in dollars and lives  
that was one of the questions that she asked us to think about  
because i because we never went to war  
i don't think we were committed to winning it and getting out  
and i   i feel like it went on and on  
and i i guess i see such a contrast like as opposed to the middle east war we just had where president bush went out and got worldwide support for for what was happening  
you know i just feel like maybe we went in to be policeman  
and i'm not sure that's our role  
but  
uh_huh  
don't you think that maybe that's why we had it this time  
i mean i do think that it's been too long in coming  
but i feel like maybe the american people and and the government are aware of the things that we did wrong that we didn't support that   that those  
so many people were opposed to the war  
what it translated into was they were opposed to the folks that were there fighting it  
and those guys were there doing their duty  
yeah  
and i i think that we learned from that  
and i think it it's one of those things that you learn the hard way  
it was a tragic mistake  
the way that they have been treated over the years and i believe that's just now turning around just now you know trying to be [rectified]  
and i'm and i'm not sure you can undo the damage that was done emotionally   on so many of the people  
no  
they're not  
yeah  
well i i appreciate the  
i feel like president bush is in a hard spot  
he went over there to get them out of kuwait which he did  
and then he has backed out  
he has pulled out  
and i realize they're still saying well here you're encouraging us to get rid of saddam hussein  
so why aren't you helping us  
and you see i think him going in and doing that would be putting us in another vietnam situation  
and i don't think the u s will stand for it  
i don't think he would do that  
uh i think we learned too much   of the effects  
uh you know whether it was justified or not i know that they probably felt like we were going in for a good cause  
i i feel like maybe they felt like we were doing the right thing to try and help maintain the democracy over there and   and beat the communism  
but but i think somewhere that got lost   you know in the long term effects of the of the war  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
that we don't get fixed  
i know  
and i i believe that we have to have a military  
and i believe that we have to have a defense to keep anybody else from walking in and doing it to us  
but i also believe that we need to turn so much of that [inward]  

i know  
i do think that in the middle east war um  
i think that maybe a lot of the arab countries that were so [hateful] towards the united states have come away with uh kind of a different attitude  
uh i think that maybe we're not their big bad enemy any more  
an uh and i think that's good you know  
i think that's a good  
i think so too  
and perhaps the reason that good came out of the mid east war is because we had the experience of vietnam  
so i i i do think that we've learned from it  
you know i i i wish there weren't war  
but uh i do think we learned  
yes  
no  
there was no feeling of accomplishment no goal  
no  
we went in  
but what did we do  
we lost lives  
and and what were we trying to do  
who knows  
and i i think you're right  
uh i think you're right there  
um i do remember when it was over  
i remember when they were coming home  
uh but i remember the feeling back then you know  
like i feel like right now i feel like this country has been behind this war  
uh yeah  
there's a lot of people that aren't for war  
i'm not for war  
but i believe that the way that it was done and the way that was handled were right  
i don't remember that feeling back in vietnam  
i just remember  
oh yeah  
our guys are over there  
and it's sad  
and we shouldn't be fighting a war  
but there was no let's support them you know  
yeah  
that's right   that's right  
that's right  
they don't see it as supporting the folks the people  
i would agree with you there  
i i agree  
um and i and i recall when president bush said that you know  
he said look  
i you know i'm sorry that you're opposed to the war  
there's a lot of us that are opposed to war  
but uh you're not helping the people that are over there by what you're doing  
and i remember a lot of it kind of stopped after that  
but  
not  
that's true  
uh  
giving a [soapbox] to stand on  
but well i just i i'm glad we've learned  
i'm sorry we had the experience of vietnam  
and uh and i'm i'm i'm especially sorry for the people that are you know have spent all these years trying to deal with it emotionally  
because you know until the past four or five years nobody ever really worried about that   for them  
and and i think that's where we as american people really failed you know failed them  
so i don't know  
well do you have anything else you want to say on this  
i think this is the first time that i haven't been cut off by the computer  
usually i can talk all day  
but this is something to me that's sad  
so well have a good day  
and i appreciate the conversation  
bye bye  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
i i agree with that  
i was i was fairly young at the time too  
i i really don't have very many memories about it at all in fact  
and uh my husband is a vietnam veteran  
and you know he in looking at the persian gulf war that just went on he  
it frustrates him because of the support that they have and the support that the vietnam vets did not have from the people or the administration either one  
right  
that's right  
i mean they weren't there by choice  
and and  
right  
right  
no  
i don't think you can  
and i i agree with you that i i think that the the time difference between the two wars has allowed a lot of people to see the mistakes that were made in in in every aspect of it  
and i i agree with you also that i feel like it was not worth the money spent or the lives lost to fight that war  
i mean they're still not settled over there  
and i have a feeling that the persian gulf crisis is going to be the same way  
i think we're going to end up back there in a few years or if if not sooner  
uh_huh  
i think it would too  
no  
yeah  
i agree with that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
you have to you know you have to give bush a lot of credit for he he said that's what we were going there to do  
and he did what what he said  
and he did pull out before it got any further than that where   where it would have turned into more of a police action uh or more of a political action i guess you getting into their governmental affairs which you really can't do as as another country  
i mean my my biggest problem with all of these wars is we spend all of that money on all these other countries  
and we have so many problems here at home that we don't address  
that's right  
and and that's what frustrates me more than anything  
right  
i think there's a lot of waste  
and and they don't if they could just cut out all the fat and and get it lean and start addressing some of the other issues  
i think we could take care of everything and quit taking care of all these other countries all across the world   you know who just end up using things against us later on anyway  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
a lot of good has come from this one  
and i think i guess in in uh ironic way a lot of good came from the vietnam war toward this war  
because like we we said earlier that you know the a lot of eyes were opened after years and years of of that war  
and and  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no kidding  
and i just i just hate the emotional price a lot of the vietnam people paid   for you know nothing  
i mean it was they're they still don't know what they were there for  
no  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  

the  
when this war broke out it frustrated me all the [antiwar] people and you know   their all the demonstrations that were going on  
i felt like they got way too much media coverage and publicity  
because those kind of people i mean you know they're the kind of people who are who've always got to have a cause whether it's good bad of indifferent  
they've got to have a cause  
and   and i you know nobody says because you're supporting the troops that you're you're supporting the war  
you have to support the people that are there  
and for some reason those people don't see that  
no  
no  
they don't  
and you know they're just real shallow people  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean they're not helping anybody  
that's the that's the whole point  
they're not doing anything for anybody except themselves  
and i don't even know what they're doing for themselves   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
i guess not  
i know  
we get cut off all the time too  
yeah  
it is  
thanks  
same here  
bye bye  
well i guess it depends on what age  
i am in the thirty something  
so i know  
i mean i lived through it  
uh are you old enough to know about the war  
uh_huh  
okay  
well yeah  
you are old enough  
but it was on the fringe  
it ended uh when i was in uh college in uh when i turned nineteen in nineteen seventy  
i cannot even remember at this point uh  
when i turned nineteen it was the year that uh the draft was still going on  
if i had been a male or in israel i would have been number two  
yeah  
so i learned a lesson in gender  
uh in terms of the war i do not know uh  
actually i do not really know that much about it  
i just know socially the impact it had here and what you hear in the media you know uh  
i guess i think it was uh uh not that great that we were in there uh in terms of for how long it lasted  
you know  
what do you think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
the [devastation]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and in full   [faction]  
yeah  
yeah  
it just kind of   dragged on  
uh i do not know how you were historically  
but i was a little bit older before i realized just how long it had been going on since   l b j and  
i mean i  
yeah  
it really well  
yeah  
in fact because in terms of when your  
there is at least ten years between us  
so in terms of when you were in school i am sure that it was you know the majority of your high school and junior high years  
uh one of the things i did not like was the weapons the weapons i can't even say it the weaponry systems that they used  
uh it just did not seem that uh i do not know technically we knew what we were doing either  
and then you heard about the things like agent orange et cetera  
and you would think you know just uh how could the government or the [pentagon] uh or [whomever] is in charge there been so [careless]  
uh  
conscious  
yeah  
[nutrisweet]  
yeah  
and all these other things  
that is true uh  
uh monetarily too i just do not think we have done enough for the uh vietnamese people as a whole uh in south vietnam in general in helping them restore themselves  
you know and i don't know if it is because there are not any oil fields there  
yeah  
i mean i do not think they do  
but i just think it is kind of a shame that uh you still hear things about the children that are [orphans] there  
and  
uh so on a whole i do not know war is not good  
and that one i probably  
uh my main opinion would be we should not have done it  
well   that is what i know about the vietnam war  
unless you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh vietnam  
jeez  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and that that  
uh_huh  
in terms of the personal  
yeah  
the [bitterness] is more on a personal   level than on a  
uh_huh  
the money is  
after  
yeah  
i mean i think it started actually like like in the late fifties i mean like in fifty eight fifty nine  
so it really  
i mean because i know in nineteen sixty three i mean i was nine years old   when kennedy was shot  
so i mean i remember uh right around then that's when i first started hearing about vietnam  
but then as i got older and studied in school i realized it was even going on before that  
you know and you think to yourself oh my goodness eisenhower  
that sounds ancient  
yeah  
and i know i know you know a lot of the vietnam vets that are my age in their later thirties uh guys that i know that they are just kind of bitter you know  
they they you know  
i hate to that movie born on the fourth of july  
but it is that kind of idea  
you know they just do not feel that socially they were given  
like a friend of mine called it the yellow ribbon syndrome  
yeah  
they were not given the  
yeah  
so well i won't keep you any more  
that is probably as about as much as we both know  
but thanks for talking to me  
uh yes  
is that where you are at  
oh i know where that is  
that is beautiful where you are at  
d c  
yeah  
are you a native of there  
yeah  
uh dallas it is uh ninety two degrees here today  
but at least the humidity is uh below forty percent which makes it kind of like phoenix  
really  
well you  
yeah  
well you are not missing too much then  
really  
well take it easy  
okay  
bye bye  
uh just barely  
yeah  
i am uh twenty nine  
so uh  
yeah  
but  
just uh yeah  
exactly  
had some friends that were that were in it  
really  
[wowie]  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well i think it is uh basically the same way  
it is certainly has affected uh u s policy though  
there is   there is no question it had an overwhelming effect of how we approached the the thing in uh iraq  
because uh the whole thing that was bad about vietnam it was no different from iraq  
i mean it was uh one country picking on a smaller weaker one  
yeah  
the only difference was that the government said okay  
if we were going to support this smaller country then we are going to support it a hundred percent  
and we are going to consider ourselves against in war   against these people as well  
which uh  
right  
which really was not the attitude with vietnam  
it was sort of of a president's war   rather than a   country's war  
right  
yeah  
it   seemed to me like it was   it seemed like it was going on forever  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
of course now uh now everyone's more uh you know environmentally   uh intelligent than they were back then  
i mean back then it was not [commonly] known that [saccharin] was bad for you and all these other things   that people   that people know about themselves now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do not know if they uh i do not know if they have that resource or not  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know a little uh a little bit more than i do  
explain it  
i did not uh get to live through it  
that the people that i know that it did   uh felt very strongly  
most of  
i work for a government contractor  
so most of the guys i work with are uh-oh at least some of the guys i work with rather are veterans  
and uh from vietnam  
and i have not talked to any of them that that were not you know glad that they went or or rather thought that the reason they went was a good one  
you know   most of them are very strongly that that the reason for america to be there was a good one  
they just felt that the way america backed them up was not was not at all right  
yeah  
in term of uh  
yeah  
personal level  
and and the finances how they started you know  
like air attacks and stuff like that dropped off like crazy  
because the congress would not approve you know  
so   yeah  
huh  
i i  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
the [ticker] tape parade and all that  
okay  
yes  
uh were you calling from texas  
no  
i am in falls church virginia  
yeah  
right in right near d c  
uh pretty much  
yep  
been  
yeah  
it is about the same weather here  
little bit little bit cooler like eighty nine  
but basically the same thing  
yeah  
right  
okay  
bye bye  
uh no  
uh no  
my father was uh came in right after world war two  
i am too young yeah  
uh yes  
a couple  
uh the the one guy i worked with down in austin hated it  
uh he was a [lineman] down there  
and while he was there he caught some kind of a strange disease  
and uh all his hair fell out  
and he had like a hundred and five fever for a while  
and   and uh  
i do not think he was in combat  
so   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
but he was in the navy though   he was  
it makes a lot of difference  
uh_huh  
huh  
oh yeah  
well the armed forces did so much to you know agent orange  
they did so much to their own people all during that time  
you know and they they take a   even now uh they take a free hand as far as medicine and uh you know how they treat the war casualties you know  
if you come back and your leg is blown off   you know or or it is hanging by a thread they still can't put it back together now  
but   but what they do afterwards and how they rehabilitate you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
it's   it's about nine or ten percent now  
uh_huh  
that's true  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is  
uh_huh  
well they are probably not doing very well at all  
because i know there is there is still people even in the dallas area  
there are there are still people trying to get some member of their family back from uh vietnam  
uh  
uh  
native vietnamese people  
yeah  
they were lost you know when they were little  
and and they never did get back  
or  
yeah  
and uh   and as is really a big waste because they didn't they didn't win  
they didn't [regain] any of the land that they had  
it [spilled] over into uh now i can't even think of the country  
but  
yeah  
[cambodia]   and to [laos]  
and   and all they did is run and hide  
and they were not really fighting you know  
it it would have been the same as desert storm if all they had been fighting was north vietnam  
but and i am not even sure who was involved more whether it was china or russia  
you know they were pouring they were pouring weapons in there and and [advising] well digging tunnels for them   you know  
and there is no way that they could ever catch them  
yeah  
that is right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
all they can do is dig in  
and they   you know  
and then they try to [camouflage] the top  
well now even i think even now and in vietnam they could probably have done a better job  
because they could they could kill all those plants you know which would devastate the country as far as farming from then on  
but and the and the corps of engineers i think do a better job now like they did in desert storm  
because   they had  
he he dug a bunch of [moats] and filled them with oil  
and he set a lot of [booby] traps all along the way as they went  
and they had to you know they had to blow them up or   or disarm them  
and then they had to fill in little bridges all the way where he where he had made those [moats]  
uh  

yeah  
partially  
uh_huh  
yeah  
part of it is technology yeah  
because   all  
go ahead  
yeah  
i think that is one of the reasons that they have they have pretty much avoided getting involved in south america  
because   look what happened when they were looking for noriega  
and they lost him for four hours when they were right on top of him   you know  
he probably just went right down into a tunnel  
yeah  
that is right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and they they really need  
everybody that has that has stood there  
it's  
when  
in vietnam i think it was much closer contact  
you stand there with a rifle and blow a a piece of somebody apart   or blow their head off  
and that has to affect you if you are human you know  
so they had to   work all that that anger out and the and the nightmares that come along with it  
i do not   i do not really think that anybody can ever forget that  
but they can they can reason and   and try to adjust to to why they were there  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and that   and that was that was in the in the era when kennedy was president that they were afraid of everything   you know  
and and and they initially got into it because of eisenhower  
and he just he did not want to be in it any more than than what we started out in august with desert storm  
and then it just blew up into the war  
uh_huh  
french yeah  
uh_huh  
right yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
more than what was [apocalypse] now  
yeah  
i think so  
yes  
it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
are you a vietnam veteran dudley  
no  
do you have family who were in the vietnam war  
okay  
so he was too old  
and you were too young right  
all right  
do you know some folks who have been there  
okay  
okay  
how did it influence them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh what about long lasting effects on him  
has he still suffering from those problems  
uh_huh  
well i have talked with a number of vietnam veterans  
and i really i had no one directly related to me involved  
but uh my sister's husband was in vietnam  
and it it really made a completely different man out of him  
he went to vietnam one man and came back another not better  
then uh another friend of mine went  
and he was in combat  
but he came back  
and he said okay that is it that is behind me i am going on with my life  
much like what roger staubach did  
he was uh he was a vietnam war veteran  
and uh  
yeah  
that is true  
right  
and but uh most of the folks that i have met that were actually on the land or in combat are still still carry a lot of anger  
they really do  
and uh i i i i really do not think that we did those young men right  
i think that uh desert storm   shows a lot of learning since that time  
uh  
yeah  
that is true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you know one of the most troublesome things that i have encountered as a result is the incredible influx of southeast asians into this country   since that conflict  
uh not so   much that i say   i do not want you here  
but there is just such a [surge] of southeast asians  
it has affected the culture of this country uh   very much  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh the culture is changing  
look how much more oriental food we have restaurants now   for example  
uh even ten years ago there were not that many  
a lot of shops are are operated by southeast asians  
a lot of people have complained in the schools  
there is a culture change there  
the southeast asians seem to be very hungry  
there seem to be very [studious]  
and uh tends to cause our kids to really have to [buckle] down to keep up with them which is not bad  
not really  
uh but it might in the long run you can see where scholarships for example   uh even jobs uh jobs that would normally go to an american with a lesser education might be going to to some of these people here  
and that is all a result of of of vietnam  
and and you see a lot of   a lot of men that were over there brought families back  
uh and it concerns me that there is probably a lot of mixed breed youngsters still there  
and i would be concerned or interested to find out how they are doing now  
i know that there  
you are talking about p o w   or   missing in actions  
native vietnamese people  
okay  
oh i had not  
that that had not occurred to me  
that would be   an interesting concept  
[cambodia]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think the terrain had a lot to do with the the success of desert storm as opposed to that in vietnam  
you know there is incredible cover   in vietnam  
and you can't find much cover on in a sand   dune  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what world war do you think they found the experience for that  
don't you think they learned from the mistakes in vietnam  
part of it is that   part of it is technology  
but   when when   when you get into trouble like that in a place like vietnam you do tend to analyze the problems that you get into  
and you say never more  
and and you overcome those problems  
and you are prepared next time  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
sure  
well i know that uh from a personal standpoint people was one of the finest assets that we lost  
we did not actually physically lose them  
they did not lose their lives  
but they lost a whole lot of the life they might have had  
uh being entirely different people  
i had dinner monday night with a vietnam veteran who is just now beginning to recover from the drug and alcohol struggle that he had  
that is a long time to suffer  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i can't uh  
oh yeah  
you bet  
you bet  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you see that is what the veterans are so angry about now  
they say well we're   going to listen to this and we are going to look at this find out what our mistakes were and we are not going to make them again  
but that does not undo the ones that were done  
and that is what makes the veterans angry  
and i cannot blame them  
i do not know a solution  
but i sure cannot blame them for being angry  
on the other hand you know you can be angry about something for a very long time  
or you can say well that is the way it is and go on with your life  
uh  
for the most part i wish that it had not happened  
but it did  
so   that is right  
oh yeah  
well it has been that way for a very very long time though  
i can remember when i was in the sixth grade  
and that was many years ago  
we were reading about the french   struggling with that   in southeast asia  
so and and and the asians historically have always had these kinds of wars going on  
there there has not been a lot of peace in that part of the world  
i really i do not know  
we should not have maybe gotten involved  
but if we did we certainly should have supported our people who were there  
more so supported them when they got home  
and uh i am afraid that they were treated as [castaways] for the most part  
and i i saw the movie   born on the fourth of july  
and i think it did a good job [depicting] the temperament of the times  
uh_huh  
well dudley have we pretty well discussed the subject  
well i think so  
i enjoyed talking to you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
tell me what you think about the vietnam war  
uh as i understand it and i uh don't know a lot about it uh we got in there because of france  
uh france was there first  
they had  
sure  
jerry what did you think of people like uh jane fonda another war anti war [activist]  
right or wrong  
uh_huh  
uh you know i i didn't realize that we'd signed some type of deal like that  
i thought we came in as first advisors to the french and then they decided to pull out  
and  
sure  
sure  
wonder what happens to this little [beastie] on call waiting or something  
huh fascinating  
well that's not  
that's okay  
um no  
i had thought that they had uh colonies there or something  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm thirty two  
so uh i  
well i missed it  
seventy four is when they quit sending troops  
yeah  
i was just probably three or four years  
okay  
well i'm a vietnam era veteran  
and uh i was uh fortunate not to have to serve in the theater  
however my support roll in the service was to support those in the theater of operation uh  
i'm of the old school that believes that uh the uh uh contracts that we made back years ago needed to be honored  
however uh i think we could have executed the war and gotten it over a whole lot quicker uh  
but those are my personal thoughts  
and i think that if we'd let the generals run the war like we let the generals run world war two we'd had got it over a whole lot quicker and lost a lot fewer people  
but as it was the politicians ran the the korean conflict and ultimately the vietnam thing  
and we managed to come out uh losers all the way around  
and so this is what ultimately [triggered] us uh united states uh per se being uh deciding to get out of the role of world policeman  
your views  
well  
we got into it because of [seato] agreement back just right after world war two that uh we [pledged] a mutual uh uh defense of of the south vietnamese  
and as it turned out they were in a civil war one with another  
and really we  
i i question us you know now  
of course [hindsight] is all too clear  
uh so we're we we have to have to deal with with the uh situation as as we played it  
i  
don't get me started on those people  
you know before she before jane fonda did did what she did i thought she was a wonderful person  
but after uh uh well  
i i just don't have anything want anything to do with her any more  
because you support uh you support your government  
uh okay  
right or wrong  
i don't think is is we can determine whether we were right or wrong  
because you're you're having to deal with again uh  
i think we could have made a different agreement   back in the the late forties era that would have kept of there  
can you hold just a second terry  
one moment please  
sorry for the delay  
uh yeah  
this is  
the uh the the uh mutual defense thing was uh  
we we  
it was complicated  
and i don't think everybody knows the whole situation  
i don't  
but from what i can gather is we went and said yeah we will help the south vietnamese uh should they ask  
well the french went in and tried their old style warfare and uh got [soundly] [thrashed]  
and we didn't do a whole lot better  
well yeah  
that was the old french colony but see the french the french were our uh allies in [nato]  
and they're also our allies in [seato] which was the southeast asia [treaty] organization which has since been uh [disbanded] as far as i know  
you know [nato] is is on the way of being [disbanded] uh  
but uh the you know the french yeah  
we go in as an [ally] to the french and says yeah we'll we'll help you out if you get in a bind  
well they got in a bind and says we don't want to you know play any more  
so uh we we kind of we kind of got got the ball rolling ourselves versus a bunch of top secret silly uh um oh operations and then the full scale you know full scale troops et cetera et cetera et cetera  
uh yeah  
yeah  
roughly  
how do you feel about the viet nam war  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i saw that as well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well were   you ever in viet nam  
or  
um i was much too young  
i was born in sixty seven  
so  
um you know both my well both my brothers were um draft age  
but neither of them wound up going over which i think they were very happy for  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well um so well do you do you feel that it was worth what we did over there  
okay  
um do you think i mean do you think our the investment in lives and money was worth it  
i totally agree with that um  
what what effects do you think it's had on our country  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think you know that's pretty typical that of the entire entire involvement over that you know that nothing was really addressed  
it it wasn't you know it was never  
we we announced that we were going to war  
it was such a [gradual] and subtle you know   um you know [increasement] of of force that  
i vaguely remember we um we had a we had a um spy ship [torpedoed] or something  
oh  
uh_huh um  
so um do do do you think that like uh um for example like in in this past war in the persian gulf war   that uh that you see it seemed to me that that bush was going going to extraordinary lengths to um you know prepare the country for war  
yeah  
okay  
uh i wasn't really keeping count  
but i guess  
good bye  
bye  
huh well um you know i guess it's pretty deep feelings uh  
i just uh went back and rented uh the movie what is it good morning viet nam  
and uh  
got that uh uh some insight there to to kind of help me put together the feelings  
i really appreciated the the whole uh english class where the uh the uh fellow just wouldn't do it you know  
the guy's [gouging] [gouging] your eyes out  
what are you going to do  
you know what for him to finish me off  
and uh it it was uh good to remember the uh that that kind of asian philosophy   that uh  
no  
no  
i was kind of an in between uh finally drew a high draft number  
and you  
oh  
well i personally uh you know uh i just went in [limbo]  
i had a [passport] and was ready to go   or um out of the country or   join special forces either one  
i mean i just didn't know  
so uh  
um yeah  
just a second  
okay  
sure  
now well mark um what was that again  
no  
not not really  
um  
[downside] um uh well  
the says we should uh go into the grief that that's there  
and you know presidents have always avoided that   as a country  
so it's pretty serious really you know  
lot of things that aren't being addressed  
yeah  
gulf of [tonkin] uh resolution  
and was it a dolphin or a [torpedo]  
you remember that  
yeah  
yeah  
only only it was foggy  
and finally president johnson said well they're weren't really sure whether it was a dolphin or a [torpedo]  
isn't that something  
uh_huh  
hey mark   i've got to go um  
we'll see you  
i guess our five minutes are up according to me  
are they to you  
yeah  
okay  
bye bye  
uh i'm of the age that could have gone although i didn't  
and uh i guess uh looking back on it i tend to think it was pretty uh mostly a mistake  
on the other hand uh the more i learn about the history the more i see it was [incremental] uh decisions any one of which was sort of understandable at the time  
and uh but on the whole i think it uh probably was the wrong thing to do  
how about you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's funny  
tonight i was uh   helping my kid with an [essay] on uh stalin  
and i was thinking in the course of talking to him about it how uh in world war two the [personalties] of stalin hitler and churchill more or less defined the war  
and actually when you think back on the big events of the war it was uh it was almost a personal struggle among these three uh  
i guess you'd have to call them great men in some sense  
uh they're certainly all leaders  
and uh and uh with their nations pretty pretty [solidly] behind each one of them  
and i got a feeling that some of that was involved in the uh early decisions of the vietnam war that the uh people saw the cold war as uh you had to draw a line and and defend it  
otherwise there'd be they'd get you someplace else  
looking back it seems like that was only partly true that uh there might have been a better place to draw the line  
uh i guess you can i guess you can say that a a certain amount of resolve and willingness to fight uh brought the cold war to an end  
but i don't think you can just fight anywhere just just in order to uh call the bully out and beat him  
and i have a feeling that that's part of what was involved in the vietnamese war  
they felt like this was a place where we could draw a line   beat them and they wouldn't come forward  
and uh   we were wrong  
but i uh you know  
the like i said the more i hear about it the more i can see each decision that was made as being understandable  
but the [accumulative] effect was to really get into a a hopeless situation where  
and as you say uh going halfway was probably worse than uh committing uh committing to a completely and uh winning it whatever that would mean  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well you're not  
it's ambivalent  
yeah  
what what about the domestic effects  
like i was thinking that maybe the most important effect it had was to make it uh possible and even popular to uh criticize the government  
and they  
that pendulum started to swing uh maybe even too far to the point where uh uh supporting a government decision in foreign policy was sort of optional   from the vietnam war on  
and that tradition is still  
i mean it's dying now  
but it's still alive as opposed to  
this desert storm stuff may have uh   killed it  
but i think that was one of the biggest  
that you know the uh the domestic unrest  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'm uh i i was just uh in high school i guess when it when it ended  
ended up being  
i was in the last last lottery  
and i was glad it was over by then  
i've never really totally understood what our purpose was over there  
just because you know we didn't really do anything when we went over it seems like  
you know we uh  
those people that i know  
i work with several that were over there  
and for some of them it was just kind of i don't know not so much a holiday  
i guess that's how they tend to talk about it but that they just kind of lived out in the woods  
and ever now and then they'd go and shoot their rifles  
and then they'd   come back  
and you know  
but that they weren't really allowed to do anything  
i uh  
to me it seems like we only went halfway if even halfway  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i i i think we did i think we did learn some lessons that we weren't uh we weren't prepared for  
i guess the best word would be the atrocities of war  
uh i mean the other wars seemed like a [valiant] war i mean   they seemed like a [valiant] thing  
you knew you knew who was good  
you knew who was bad  
and it was a it was a traditional the traditional battle of kind of good versus evil if you you know   whichever way it is  
but in in the vietnam war it seems like it was  
a a the sides and the lines that were drawn are all confused as to whose good and whose bad  
and   and uh you know the  
even  
it seems like even the people you know  
had the south vietnamese the north vietnamese and of course the [laotians]  
and the [cambodians] weren't even supposed to be involved  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's what's called a [moot] question
yeah
the the
i think that had we had the war or had we not had the war we'd a had a lot similar uh effect upon the population in terms of uh the freedom era as it were
i think what we saw was a phenomenon of a large number of young people at one time that were of the age of decision without the maturity to handle it
me among them
and uh you know richard [nixon] is my hero because he kept me out of that place
and my number was six and i was going
yeah
yeah
yeah
forget that you're not going
well i quit college when uh they when they moved out
went into construction
took me seventeen years to finish my degree
was it worthwhile from whose point of view
well i think one of the the major points that a lot of people including myself missed until recently is the fact that we could have [annihilated] the north had we won it
well even even at even at the not on the you know the gross [tactical] but on the on the very minute [tactical] arena
you know they were sending out you know eight or nine guys to [engage] a company you know
and they'd get wiped out
and you wonder why
you know
and at every turn the [tacticians] were denied access to information which is a biggie and uh components you know whatever it took to do the job by the politicians
why because somebody was getting rich
i found that everywhere you look if you find the money you'll find out why
and dow chemical had a real good thing going you know dow chemical had a photographer at every demonstration yes
and if your picture was in that demonstration you didn't get hired by dow chemical yeah
and uh [dupont] was was uh doing a lot of that too
yeah
well it was a big part of their market
you know
and we
they have no moral conscience and that goes into and it and it's all tied together too
i kind of believe that the vietnam event i'm not going to call it a war or a police action it was an event that the main push for that was outside the united states our involvement for one thing we were on the wrong side you know we were side of the fascist dictator and you know ho chi [minh] if you've read any of his [writings] he was a democrat
you know he wanted democracy
the vietnam war
yeah
i am forty one so was
well i uh was in college when the war escalated to it's height and uh i guess my feeling is consistent with that of uh the general public that it was an unfortunate event uh it's real interesting to uh think about it in the context of this new movie j f k which is apparently [linking] the kennedy assassination to his decision to
uh uh that apparently the people who worked for kennedy say he did decide that he was going to pull out of vietnam
he was not going to commit more troops that that had nothing to do with the assassination people say
but they that he had come to that conclusion
i think it was uh particularly in light of recent events a really unfortunate mistake communism was self [destructing] even then
and uh the history of vietnam which has been uh represented in a number of different commentaries and documentaries one on the public broadcasting system uh it seems that it just didn't have to happen
and i think its a valuable uh if painful lesson for this country
right
at the time i wasn't that uh wasn't that
sure
i i really didn't know enough about it
and wasn't that politically active
uh but it was uh apparently something that could have been avoided
and i you know i think i look at wars generally as falling into that category uh people are beginning to wonder whether or not the uh gulf war could have been avoided even though that was a
remarkably painless war as wars go
right
third world country really
well i think what what's uh i i guess i would use the word relevant to the vietnam war the question is that the vietnam war was apparently [avoidable] too
it was a time when ho chi [minh] apparently came to the united states and said look if you are willing to provide me with support all i want to do is [unify] vietnam
and uh he was turned away by truman uh so it's uh a painful lesson i guess one that we are beginning to learn i'm really impressed by how much effects some of these movies have had on public consciousness the j f k movie is causing one person after another to uh call for the release of the documents that have been sealed did you see any of the vietnam wars uh any of the vietnam war movies
oh the deer hunter
yeah
those two yeah
yeah
they were they
yeah
well they were both remarkable films
as a matter of fact there is a new film out about the vietnam war about the making of [apocolypse] now which its self is suppose to be great
yeah
have you
is it good
that's what people say i am really looking forward to seeing it his wife apparently made it from documentary oh is that on the film could that be captured on film
right
right
right
hello  
hello  
this is [lois]  
and uh i called you know from that the the t i data base calling instructions  
yeah  
this is about changes in the women in the  
uh there's really a lot isn't there  
i think there really is  
oh i guess the work force would be the main wouldn't it  
okay  
all right  
are you ready now  
okay  
like i said i guess it would be the work force you know as far as changes in the generations  
uh no  
i think now you go to work when they're six weeks old   you know  
and you stay there  
and i feel like the next generation you'll probably just work right along with your husband you know  
oh i do to much  
and it's just going to get better  
it really is  
oh i can't either not a one  
uh_huh  
yeah  
even in washington you know   there seems to be a lot more women involved  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i do too  
just your qualifications  
and that would be it  
yeah  
i kind of think maybe in time that you know you'll go by social security numbers you know  
and that way they can't say well they picked a male over a female female over a male you know  
yeah  
yeah  
i do to  
just go by your social security number and then look at you qualifications that you know that you have  
and then if you get it you know then  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
as a matter of fact that's what i'm doing  
uh_huh  
it sure is  
it sure is  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
that is  
uh_huh  
oh i do  
i really do  
i think it's great  
uh well like one week she'll work three days and i'll work two  
and the next week you know i'll work three  
and she'll work two  
and we just share off like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we get the full benefits  
but we've just really got a wonderful system that we're working under  
yeah  
it really is  
and that way we're not really missing any thing out you know   of children  
uh_huh  
oh it is  
it is  
well both of ours is school age  
but we don't want to miss any of those p t a and you know all of that  
uh_huh  
i think it's great  
i really  
and i look for more of that in the next generation  
yes  
oh i do too  
most of the time now you know it's just the weekend  
or just forget it  
uh_huh  
to do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i think we've really come a long way in that because  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i can remember back growing up my mother  
i mean it was  
she always worked  
but it wasn't that easy for her to just take off  
oh yeah  
oh i do too  
yes  
yes  
they really are  
i know  
i know the feeling  
okay  
i sure will  
bye bye  
hello  
hi  
hi  
hi  
this is lisa  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i got a call yesterday too  
this is a different subject though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's kind of an easy thing to talk about  
yeah uh  
i think you have to push one  
and then we can start recording it  
okay  
yes  
yes  
i know because i know when my mother was a you know going into the work force there wasn't very many opportunities for her i guess  
she's in her late forties  
you were expected to stay home and take care of the kids  
and i've never faced that at all  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think it's definitely gotten better  
uh_huh  
because women are in every field now  
i mean i can't think of a field that they're not involved in  
and i know at least in the medical field it seems like they've come out with a lot further advances as far as female medications and things since women have gotten into the doctor field  
i don't think that men really took the time to work on that sort of thing  
yeah  
hopefully the next generation it won't even be an issue  
i mean people will just look at you as a person and not as a man or a woman  
i think that would be the best goal  
uh_huh  
exactly  
not what color you are how old you are what your male or female  
that would be wonderful  
i guess it's kind of an ideal world though huh  
yeah  
exactly  
or the way you look  
or the way you you know  
your age or anything  
i think that would be a wonderful way to do it  
uh_huh  
and then  
uh_huh  
also with uh women in the work force they've gotten a lot more options as far as you know what's it called job sharing  
like if you and another lady were to share the same full time job   or  
is it  
that would be great  
or a lot of women i know now and my uh one of my supervisors when she went on l o a to have her baby we hooked up uh uh a terminal at her house  
and she you know we could send her messages  
and and she kept in touch like that   and basically just worked out of her house  
i would just take her the actual paperwork once uh every week or two  
and that worked out great too  
and that's a real attractive option if you have the the technology for it  
all it was was you know  
i mean she just used a phone modem  
and she was like she was sitting in the office  
so i think that's real nice too to come up with different options  
do you like the job sharing  
do you  
do you work like half days or half weeks or  
oh oh that's great  
uh_huh  
do you get the full benefits  
oh that's wonderful  
yeah  
especially with children and so many things going on   that would be great  
either way  
yeah  
you have your career and your home life  
and that would be a nice way especially if you have young children  
uh_huh  
oh no  
i think  
yeah  
my son's just in day care  
but even that they have extracurricular activities  
and the older they get the more that you're involved in that  
yeah  
i do too especially as women get up in management and and can be in on those decision making  
you know when that subject comes up they can say yes  
that would be wonderful  
plus i bet it cuts cuts down on your [absenteeism] because you've got two days off that you can do everything  
so you don't have to you know unless you're just really sick or the child's sick  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i have to plan way in advance because  
or what i've done is found like doctors' and [dentists'] office with extended hours  
that's been real helpful too  
like my doctor stays open til nine in the evening  
so that's real helpful  
so you don't you know have to do it during office hours run out on your lunch hour  
i don't know how many times i've done that to do something   post office or the bank or any kind of [errand]  
so  
uh_huh  
i guess i take it for granted kind of because i just  
it's always been that way  
but i know  
oh no  
i can remember my mother getting in trouble if you know one of was sick  
and i know she probably didn't make hardly anything you know compared to the work that she did  
i think there is still some discrimination there where as you know men and women work in the same job  
i think men get paid more  
but i think that's improving  
it's such a slow process  
it's frustrating  
but   you can see that it's wrong  
and you just want to make it right  
but at least the wheels are moving forward  
yeah  
i think it's getting better not worse  
well i should probably get back to my job  
call again  
okay  
bye bye  
the uh uh  
you know there are so many ramifications to this entire thing of woman   how women have changed  
uh look at them  
in england   margaret thatcher was prime minister uh [indira] [ghandi] uh in india  
so many uh women are heads of state  
and i you know we we keep saying oh yes we feel some day a woman will be president  
but uh i have some question whether or not they will ever really get around to that  
i think we'll have a black president before we have a women president  
and uh i don't know whether that's bad or good  
it's just a point that i have observed that we  
yes  
right  
uh-oh  
uh-oh i think we're we're supposed to hang up  
yes  
all right  
thank you  
bye bye  
back by that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i  
yeah  
i i i truly believe that that before that that we have to address the racial racial issues in the united states   before we can go anywhere  
um because it is so you know it's  
a friend of mine traveled to [balise] and into honduras  
hello  
yeah  
well it wasn't the matter of wealth  
it was the matter that they were not wealthy   that made them equal  
well i'll talk to you later  
okay  
bye bye  
you want to start  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i agree uh  
the equality of uh the roles now between the sexes i guess has been dramatically demonstrated with this war especially compared with uh the vietnam war  
and you see women going off to wars as well as men  
uh i have wondered why they allowed or let you know both the father and mother go uh  
and the children are left without either parent  
now to me that's kind of a drawback  
but uh i guess it's a price you pay  
and i also wonder about the children that are being brought up in the uh uh day care centers  
well uh from what i understand there's been studies that uh these children are uh more [rebellious]  
uh they term it as more uh creative   but uh that they uh are much more [contentious]  
so i i don't i i guess we'll have to see another generation to see what differences a child being brought up you know in a uh kind of a uh community   rather than a home  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so they  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what do you mean  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's strange  
a nanny sort of  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to come in and live with them  
to come in and live with them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
and then you might have more control over uh the the morals that they would be taught rather than in like a classroom or a day care center  
i know the day care centers are not cheap either  
you know they're  
uh well no  
i just know i know several single mothers who absolutely can't afford it  
they have to go with the a single uh i mean a baby sitter more more or less  
but i think it's like about sixty dollars a week for two children   if i'm not mistaken  
and you have to pay that whether you're on vacation you know and taking care of the children or if the children are at home at home   sick  
i mean that is you know just a a rate that you have to pay  
and uh  
uh i think i really don't have a vision  
yeah  
i i i think that they will be more in the work place because uh the [door's] open  
and uh it's just human nature to walk through an open door  
so and i would be glad to see that  
i hope i don't see a lot more single moms  
but   it seems in my experience i'm running across single women all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's awful  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
well i think we've done it  
thank you very much  
it's been interesting  
okay  
bye  
well i guess i would first identify myself as middle aged  
and therefore   having seen the last generation i guess it puts me in you know gives me a perspective on that  
uh i am quite positive on the things that i have seen happen recently relative to women in both in society and in the work place  
uh there's no doubt about the fact that when i was first graduated from college the impression was that a woman's career would [consist] of a [childbearing] years and perhaps a return to the office but not necessarily  
uh now i think the change that i've seen as much as anything is one where couples uh are more carefully planning their intention on how to both share homemaking duties and also how women will uh have their children and then deliberately sort of plan how they go back to the work place  
and i guess that's a significant change that i've both participated in and noticed  
uh_huh  
wonder about them in what way  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have not to be honest had much experience   with children in that situation  
i i guess one knows one's own [storly]  
and i know uh in my children's case it was one where uh pretty much up until the older of two was in uh let's see i guess basically starting junior high  
and the younger was in fifth grade when my wife [reentered] the work force  
uh  
so i guess my experience is is just with what we did  
and and so they didn't really go through the child care route  
they were able to be home together  
uh and we never actually experienced that  
what in terms of changes relative to women in the work place and the potential changes over the the next generation or so i guess i anticipate uh an increasing equality uh greater presence of women in management roles  
uh i don't know whether there will be an increased amount of of [surrogacy] that we see  
i just don't know  
uh deliberate [childbirth] by surrogate mother  
sort of rent a mom  
to be you know   not to be crass about it but uh   uh whether one might conceive no pun intended of the possibility that there might be a kind of a deliberate uh uh   a professional mother   person   for instance that  
and i could you know i could envision a society where that would happen and make an interesting uh uh story or whatever  
i i don't think i have a philosophical problem with that  
in fact i think it sort of raises [nurturing] and being a mother to what it ought to be which is a respected profession  
uh i i don't have a other than than a reading and and male perspective on on the on the biological [urges] involved relative to being a mother or not  
uh i know that that my sense is that i have very much an interest and had one in being a parent  
i i don't know that i uh felt myself necessarily [encumbered] with the necessity to have [heirs]  
uh i don't have boys  
that doesn't didn't bother me  
never has  
vision more women deliberately raising children either in [surrogacy] or or as a professional nanny nanny as you put it uh  
maybe we'll see a growth in that where someone makes a career out of say taking care of five or six children as opposed to day care  
it would be a sort of day care  
but it would be more of a family setting  
uh i know that there are young people [characterized] i guess as being half my age so that by definition that means   they're young uh that in my work place who are both of them earning rather decent professional salaries who probably would consider paying a woman uh eight or nine or ten thousand dollars a year to take care of their child  
i could easily envision that  
pardon  
or to put their child into a into a home setting   where they would you know like they they would get leave at eight in the morning and and drop a two year old off in a home where you knew there were going to be four other kids  
and   and you were paying for really high quality care  
uh i have [acquaintances] of mine where i know that they are paying figures on on the order of what i quoted to someone because that's what the experience they want  
and i would imagine if there are more of people like that with an opportunity that that's a possibility of a change   that we could see in the next few years  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i haven't ever really looked at them  
are you aware at all   of of what they would what they cost  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what what do you envision for the next twenty years as far as women in american society  
that's okay too  
uh_huh  
i'm i'm noticing that too  
and and i notice the the a [terming] [emerging] called solo parents   that i'm very aware of the number of solo mothers that that i [encounter] in the work place  
and that that is a little troublesome   uh because the pressures on them are are   rather rather [formidable]  
uh and maybe that's a change we'll see  
maybe uh the possibility of of women uh who deliberately say no  
we'll let the man will take care of the children perhaps   in the event of a separation or whatever  
so  
well i think we're about done  
okay  
uh good bye  
you take care  
bye  
i suppose i do because i've seen a lot of those changes the changes that women have had in the last well you know not even the last generation the last fifteen years   twenty years going from  
well take it back thirty years  
i'm going back too far from my parents' generation when mom stayed home period  
and there was no such thing as a job or any hope of a job well unless  
if you were educated you got you know you might teach for a year or two before you got married  
and if you really pushed it you taught until you had kids or something   you know  
if you had if you were a teacher then you know that was it until the kids were little  
yes  
there was not there's not supposed to be any reason to use this education or this brain that you might have for anything other than your house and your children and how clean can the bathroom floors be on any given day  
and then and then of course today it's supposed to be all the other way  
you're supposed to only want the job  
and and uh your kids should be totally happy in day care because everybody else goes to day care  
and and we have these wonderful people who are   who are totally prepared to to teach your child everything they need to know in day care  
and we'll see how the generations go  
yeah  
i  
at least for a lot of women   depending on on what she did  
i've i was an engineer with uh mechanical engineer with t i  
and uh i did it for six years  
and for one  
well i had one while i was pregnant  
and then one while my oldest was a year old  
and and it just drove me crazy  
i could not do either well  
i couldn't put in enough overtime that was or that you know things that would come up at work that would require me to stay late or to come in early or to do something on saturdays   as is you know as is needed because my husband for a long time was out of the country   also with uh with work for like three months  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
might have been better  
yeah  
yeah  
and so it was  
in my case i just uh decided that as long as my kids were little i would be better off at home with them instead of driving myself crazy trying to do everything at once  
well actually i've found out that i'm not going to go back to being an engineer  
i'm i'm i'm a photographer now  
i have i have [branched] out  
i was a photographer before  
but when i went to college it was i felt like i couldn't support myself if i decided to be a photographer   that it would just have to be a hobby  
and i'm very mechanical  
and mechanical engineering interested me  
so i did that  
and then i you know i did that for six years  
and then i stayed home with my son and did nothing   and found out that i was that you know it was great  
but i was bored part of the time too  
and i wanted something else to do  
yeah  
it's it's great while they're really little  
but as they get older   and they're more independent and there's things to do then it's good for them to go to different  
i mean it he goes to a a mother's day out program now once a week  
both of my kids do  
and so they're getting they get the socialization with other kids and you know and not really school but but a different authority than mom once in a while you know kind of learning how to deal with society  
yeah  
i think they do too  
and i need it for the break  
uh_huh  
and enjoy it  
that's that's the whole thing  
yeah  
i think that's the thing that were going to see  
well i think the biggest thing we're going to see coming up in the next ten year even in the even now they're starting to do it  
but i think it's going to be more in the next ten to fifteen years is that there's going to be a lot of women  
and they're going to have to work it out to working part time  
because if if i had been allowed to work you know maybe thirty hours a week instead of fifty hours a week i might still be working basically full time or part time if there was if there had been   some way to work it out  
because i liked my job really well  
but i was just pulled in so many different directions  
i was it was just driving me crazy  
and now with the photography that's you know it's working  
that's what i'm doing is working part time because i can put my kids in a day care situation for a few hours in the uh week   and use those hours to do  
the thing that i'm doing is taking school pictures   in day cares and in mother's day out programs and   also soccer teams and you know different stuff like that  
so my kids can be in day care for a few hours a week  
or my husband if it's you know uh when he's at home can take care of them  
i think they're really going to have to and not and not just for mothers for fathers as well  
it's going to have to be both  
yeah  
it's just convincing your husband   that that's important or that it's important enough for him to do it  
because if he saw mom doing only that   you know all the time he was growing up   then it's hard to think of it   in that other uh that i should do it   or just to think about doing it rather than having someone   tell him to do it  
i know that was a big thing in our house for a   long time was that if i wanted my husband to do something to help and even though we were both working the same number of hours and and doing things i had to come in there specifically and say   this needs to be done  
this is what you do it now  
yes  
and  
yeah  
and without and and it's just they don't look at things  
most of the men don't walk into the kitchen and see that the dishes are there and that yes you probably ought to unload the dishwasher and load the new ones in and run it  
they just you know just [scoot] it on another spot on the sink and put the next plate down and in a while get around to it  
and i think most women walk in and and and with oh got to clean all this up got to get this out and this in and this you know taken care of instead of having someone say   now this needs to be this is the time this needs   to be done  
but  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and i think that's that's going to show up a lot more now in the in the next generation of of boys and girls  
it's not they're not going to the boys in this next generation are not going to have to be told as much   this needs to be done because mom was there saying   that dad is there you know  
you both got to they were   both working at whatever things were needed to be done  
they're going to say to the kids   you need do this because it needs to be done   not because it's a woman's job or a man's job but because it's dirty   and it needs to be clean  
and it's going to   it's going to  
yeah  
some kids are really having it  
if they'd been in day care the entire time and it wasn't  
yeah  
the ones that are now getting to be teenagers and in some cases young college  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that was one of the main reasons that i quit was because i wanted my kids to have my values  
and i felt like when they were young that was the time to instill it   that it could be it could be added to and [strengthened] as they grew older but when they were little you know  
this is the way i feel about this  
and this is the way because i it's that you know  
when you when you if you if you teach them when they're little the way you want them to be and the things that are important to you then you just you add onto it as they get older  
but if no one does anything when they're little then it's twice as hard as i think as they get older  
yes  
i understand  
i wait until i put mine in bed before i make my calls  
that's the thing  
if woman's role like we said if women's roles change drastically men's roles will too  
and a lot of it's for the better  
some of the some of the women's roles i think are almost for the worse because we're losing out on some things going back to work  
but i think if we can if we can expand the men's roles at the same time like your taking care of your child and your dad probably didn't very often  
i know mine almost never did  
so well you're you you take this subject much more personally than i do i suppose  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you you weren't supposed to want a job  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but   but uh a really good day care is probably going to cost more than you're going to make at the job  
yeah  
did you  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
so it was you and the kid  
and your work schedule is  
well that's the thing see you know  
maybe if you get along  
for example if you'd been a technician instead of an engineer  
you know the technicians work the eight to five job   and know when they're going to be there  
but if you're going to be more professional oriented then you've got to have this to be able to perform well on the job  
you've got to have the flexibility that doesn't really go with the family  
uh_huh  
so you figure one of these days you're going to go back to being an engineer  
is that what you're saying  
what will you  
oh okay  
you've found something else  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean you figure there's got to be more to life than sitting here playing with this child  
uh_huh  
and and they need that you know to be able to relate to other people besides   the same person every day  
yeah  
well that's the other thing you know  
they talk about women leaving the home and going out to work  
well still taking care of the children is a very important job  
and and someone's got to do it and be able to do it right  
and   and if it's not mom then then dad or somebody's got to move in there   and do the job because the kids really need it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so jobs have to i guess become more flexible  
yeah  
well so so that's another thing that has to adapt is you know the the father's attitudes about you know who whose job is this  
well it it's his job too  
and i  
to me the only important issue is the children  
because as far as housework goes you know men can do housework just as easily as women  
and thanks to a lot of new [inventions] housework doesn't take as much time as it used to  
so uh  
yeah  

yeah  
just  
yeah  
con  
yeah  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and you you you  
yeah  
you talk  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and a man might say out loud well you know i understand this  
and i agree  
but still he was raised with a mom taking care of him  
and that's a very hard attitude to change  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and a lot of that is is how it was drilled into you when you were a kid   which brings us back to the idea you know someone's got to be there taking care of the kids to drill in these   you know drill in the right ideas   to so that they know that uh you know male and female are both responsible for doing this  
and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but i think in between we got a group of kids a generation of kids who didn't learn to take responsibility because mom left to go get a job and dad didn't move in to fill the gap  
and so basically no one was taking the responsibility  
and i think that's happened in a lot of cases  
uh_huh  
un you know   some time day care is really good  
but sometimes it's just it's baby sitting  
it's someone you know keeping an eye on the kids  
but the kids are basically doing what they want   and not really having any relationship with the adults to say you know here's what's right  
and here's what wrong  
and here's what we expect of you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
i'm saying this as i'm trying to keep my nine month old from [trashing] something  
yeah  
well she's usually in bed by this time  
but she's staying up late tonight  
but  
yeah  
i want to have a relationship with her  
you know my dad was a very traditional dad  
and when i was a child i didn't really know my dad very well  
and i miss that  
and i want  
yeah  
but men have to be convinced of that  
no  
okay  
oh i think i think that a woman's role has come a long way  
we have gone more into the business aspect of like i say of i don't know working more  
and we i think we've even gone into more the labor aspect of it also   with the pay and everything you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and a lot of times you can't  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my mom she's a housewife  
and well there is twelve kids in my family  
so my mom never could really work you know because she was kind of pregnant from day one  
she never really had a chance to work  
she worked before she got married  
but uh she uh she doesn't believe in  
she's very old fashioned  
she doesn't believe in the woman working unless she has to  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and also like my mom my mom thinks  
i mean she's kind of right with it  
when both partners of the marriage work she feels that that's taking more away  
that's increasing more unemployment for people that need to work   you know like for for the men that don't have jobs  
if you know she feels if there is women out there just because they want to do it she said you know they could stay at home  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what do you think about that  
do you think that uh  
what do you think about the women that are not having families because they want to continue their business  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or they won't be as good as they could be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my  
bless you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i agree  
uh_huh  
and they just enjoyed the income the extra  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
oh i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
see yeah  
see now my parents there is no way they could afford to send twelve kids to college  
and so far there is only two of us that have gone  
and my older brother has paid his entire way  
and i'm on my  
i have six weeks left  
and i'll you know i'll graduate  
and i paid my entire way  
and that's the way it'll go down the line  
and like i don't have a car because i'm paying for college  
and if i want a car  
my parents always said if we wanted a car we paid for the car and we paid for our own insurance  
and i think that's right  
because  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
like i've had my you know  
like i know kids up here that have their own cars  
and money is just given to them  
like they still get their allowance  
they are twenty years old and they still get an allowance  
well i have held a summer job you know since i you know i was in the eleventh grade  
and i have had to take care of my own money  
i have my own checking account  
i pay for my own life insurance  
and i know a lot of kids that don't even know  
i mean i tell them i pay for my own life insurance and their mouths just drop to the floor you know  
well if they do they don't know it you know  
uh_huh  
oh i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
actually i think abortion is going to take a turn where there is not going to be as many  
because i think contraceptives are going to be more popular  
i mean i realize that they are popular now  
but i think i really think people are going to start using more contraceptives  
and with the abortion i don't think there is going to be as many [abortions] but i don't know what women will do when they get into politics you know about abortion  
i think it will be freedom of choice  
uh_huh  
exactly yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think if a woman would get into politics or enough women get into politics i think it will definitely be freedom of choice   uh_huh  
i i do  
i'm catholic  
and we we are not supposed to you know say that that's okay but i really feel that it's freedom of choice  
i do  
uh_huh  
and different circumstances call for different things  
if you want to go first go ahead  
yeah  
definitely  
i feel that uh we've missed as far as the top jobs go   you know the higher [echelon]  
because if you look at most corporations there isn't a woman you know that's on the board of directors or that type of thing  
they are mostly all men  
there may be a few but very [incidental]  
and i really think that it will be a long time probably before we see that  
in one sense i'm an older person in my fifties so i feel that we've lost some things in the sense that women have to work today   you know that they are not in the home by choice anymore  
it's mostly you know  
even if you want to say home you really can't  
you know it's gotten to be a two income family to just survive today between taxes and the cost of living  
and i don't think raises have kept up with you know a lot of the stuff you know as far as your medical insurance and just groceries and gasoline and all you know  
so i think that we did come a long way in the sense that we are allowed to vote in you know like you say we're out in the labor force but i think we've lost something too  
yeah  
that's what i mean  
and   you know there's a lot of truth to that  
if you are not going to have a family then that's fine  
then you know a career is a smart choice  
and i think it's great but if you you have a family i think you owe the family a responsibility  
and to have children and just get a day care or someone to take care of it and not really have the bonding process that takes place with babies and stuff you know   i i think that the mother and the child lose  
and i think that's why there is so many problems   you know with kids today  
because they don't have the family roots anymore  
you know i'm not saying that that it's totally gone but it's nothing like what it used to be   you know in that sense  
oh definitely  
that's right  
they don't want to take care of the kids   and the house and that kind of thing  
that's very true but then they shouldn't have a family  
that's what i'm saying you know  
i think it's great that women have a choice today   that there are ways to prevent families you know  
like basically there's contraceptives and   all kinds of ways to prevent [pregnancies]  
there is no need to have children if you don't want them  
that's fine  
that's that's the freedom of choice  
and i agree with that  
because anyone who has children that doesn't really want them isn't going to be a good parent  
well i shouldn't say they are not going to be a good parent  
they won't be a caring parent  
like they won't have that  
right  
that's what i mean  
they'll feel like it's a job  
it's not like something that they really wanted  
like i had three children  
and i mean i i wanted every one of them  
i'm not sorry i had any of them  
and i worked third shift for a good part of my life just so i would be home with them  
you know i had to work but i tried to make it as painless as possible  
in fact at one time i worked as a second shift  
and one saturday morning we were all sitting at the breakfast table  
and the kids were talking daddy this daddy that daddy this daddy that  
and i was sitting there  
it was like i didn't belong anymore  
and it was because i had worked for about nine months  
and when they were coming home i was going to work  
and i wasn't there at supper time or bed time  
or they couldn't tell me what went on at school because they would be coming in the door  
i would be going out  
so we were  
i felt i was losing my family  
and that's why i said that's it  
i either have to quit or you know try something else  
so i went on third shift  
and i worked that shift for eleven years  
yeah  
just so that my kids would have me at home  
you know and i feel that's very important  
it really is  
and it's too bad because mothers miss out on so much too  
so i mean in the sense that we've come a long way  
yes  
but we've sacrificed a lot to get there  
and uh i really think that if uh like after the second world war when women went to work in factories and all that that was like out of necessity because the men weren't here anymore  
but then it got to be a point where they got some independence  
exactly  
a man can afford the necessities a woman affords the luxuries  
and i notice today kids you know  
like we had apartments before we had homes  
and we had to walk before we had a car  
and now kids at sixteen years old they have their birthday  
what do they get  
they get a car  
and to me it's like we've lost our values in this country  
we really have  
and i i'm not trying to be uh you know a [prude] or old fashioned or anything but i i don't think if you unless you earn something and you've worked for it and you have a sense of pride about it  
because while i did this in you know no one gave it to me  
you will take better care of that  
and you will prize that possession   more than someone [handing] something to you  
and it's just like college too  
i think that if a kid goes to college and you can help them fine but i don't think you should pay the whole way  
of course  
sure  
but i'll bet your values are a lot higher you know and your self esteem and the the way you uh you know think about things is probably   a lot more common sense   than these kids that don't have that responsibility  
sure  
they probably don't even have any  
yeah  
exactly  
and that's what i say you'll you'll be so much better off for it as you get older  
because you know a lot of kids resent things that parents tell them and stuff  
but it's because you've been there   and no one can tell anyone anything  
you know you are going to find out for yourself  
but i mean i don't think you should just not listen to advice even if you don't take it just listen  
you know there is no harm in that whereas sometimes you can't even get that from a kid you know   just attention you know  
but really uh  
what do you feel the changes in the future like with the [abortions] and that type of thing women in politics and   president someday maybe  
yeah  
yeah  
well i still think people have a choice  
you know if you can live with it and it's you know your conscience is clear   then i mean all of us are going to answer to it one day maybe   or maybe not  
i don't know  
i mean no one has said for sure you know  
but  
yes  
yes  
which i mean i think it should be anyway  
yeah  
because i mean you as an individual what you do that to me is your business  
and uh  
exactly  
exactly  
that's  
well i wondered if i was going to get to talk to a male or a female on this type  
i was afraid we might get into an argument  
well uh i guess uh there have been certainly a lot of changes in the last couple of generations   for uh the roles of women  
and uh i guess the most significant probably is that so many are working now   and trying to juggle job and home and family and all sorts of other possibilities you know  
they may be going to school or may have elderly parents or you know all sorts of other things  
oh i think so  
absolutely  
i i i think it's extremely difficult to keep up with all that we have to these days  
sometimes i think i am going crazy trying to do it  
but  
yes  
uh yes  
they are getting older now  
so they are not quite as much of a responsibility  
but they are still there you know  
they still take time  
and and i you know i still provide most of the things that go on around the house  
so uh yeah  
and for a while i was going to school too  
and it was tough  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but in some ways i think we are expected to do it all  
you're almost looked down upon if you don't try to do all of these things  
and   that's where the problem is really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
it's a tough one  
i mean i've done some of both  
i when my kids were real little i was at home for a couple of different periods of time  
oh i think the longest was less than a year  
but still at least i was able to to spend you know those first months with them  
but uh i mostly went back to work because i was tired of doing without things  
you know the money was the issue  
but uh even now i would i would like to not have to work in some ways  
it it's kind of pull and tug  
on the other hand i can't imagine just being at home uh although i have a lot of interests and a lot of things i would like to pursue  
uh still uh there's there's sort of a feeling of accomplishment with having you know a job and all that goes with that  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's a good deal  
where do you think this is going in the future  
i mean do you think things are going to change  
or are we going to keep having to try to juggle all of this  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't  
yeah  
i well i see i think some people wanting to stay home more and take care of the children  
uh and even those who may not do it seem to be spending more time with their kids and really trying harder at making all of the the family things work  
uh but i don't know if they're going to ever give up their careers you know  
it's sort of like they went to school and they worked so hard to get where they are  
i don't know if they want to completely give that up  
but it would be nice if there could be an in between a middle ground somewhere  
yeah  
well yeah  
i think they they like a routine of sorts  
well yes  
i i like the fact that you know gradually you're beginning to see women in public office and executive positions  
but it's still a long way from being what it ought to be  
yeah  
okay  
well i enjoyed talking to you  
all right  
good bye  
have you been talking to males  
yeah  
yeah  
this is this is probably more interesting if it had been a male and a female  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it it seems too me like though that women's roles are changing faster than the men and therefore the women are spreading themselves thinner   than before  
uh_huh  
do you work outside the home  
do you have children  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
right  
yeah  
i uh i think that while it's a good change for i think women to be able to fulfill their potential in whatever they feel you know   their expertise may be  
uh i think sometimes other things suffer and  
i think it's hard to find a balance there  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i have little children four and one  
and i decided that it was very important to me to stay home  
uh and when i i i happen to you know be  
i'm very active with uh people other people with children my age  
and most of us do tend to stay home  
but when i run into people that you know just have recently had babies or have very young children and are working full time i there's almost a uh friction between us  
uh_huh  
not people that are you know necessarily good friends   even though that has happened too uh  
it's almost as though it puts you on different sides of a fence  
you know  
if you decide to go back to work then you feel like you are always having to defend yourself  
and if you don't then sometimes you feel like you're looked down upon by people that go back to work and so you're just wasting your time   at home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
that that's definitely true  
in fact i i work out of my home  
um i'm an accountant  
and i do taxes and [bookkeeping]  
and i uh  
it was  
it's a way for me to stay home  
and i mean i still unfortunately have to be very disciplined in doing my work at five in the morning and ten o'clock at night  
but uh but it it's worked out for for my family   to have my cake and eat it too kind of thing  
well i i hope that they will change uh  
but but i'm  
i just  
i know it's going to be a slow change  
uh i i feel as though a lot of people are going back to just having a one wage [earner]  
i mean i'm just thinking of my circle of people that i know  
i know quite a few people who have decided to not have both both both uh couples you know both uh of the parents work  
and yet uh i i  
i hope to see employer based you know helping out   you know child uh care centers at the place of employment and and things like that that will help out  
what do you think  
do you think we are   setting a trend  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
it's a very personal thing  
yeah  
i think it's hard though when you talk about about families and and raising children  
because i think children have a hard time understanding a middle ground  
i think they uh they need security  
and yet they  
i don't know  
i  
from speaking from my children they aren't real flexible when it comes to things like that  
they uh they want to know things are going to be a certain way  
uh_huh  
right  
well we will see  
i i'm hoping to see more female leadership in our society  
oh yes  
the the numbers are still very [skewed] to say the least  
okay  
you too ellen  
bye bye  
okay  
i'm twenty nine  
right  
and i have i mean i've seen some change  
like i know um when i was young most mothers pretty much were housewives   and stayed at home with the kids  
and to to me it seems like its almost the opposite now where the the woman is working and   and they you know take the children to child care  
or maybe they work part time or something  
so that seems to be a pretty big change  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i know the choice to either work or to be a mother is probably pretty difficult because i think women just naturally tend to have those instincts that you you know you protected the children   and you want to be with the children  
yet there's so many material things to be had out there that a lot of people think oh but if we both work we can get a really big house   and we can have two really nice cars we can take a vacation we can do this  
and it's kind of almost expected of you anyway  
people kind of look down on a on a you know the role of a woman as a housewife  
it's kind of like oh well you know she didn't go to college   and she's just a housewife  
right  
right  
even though there's probably women with m b a's maybe even p h d's that are staying at home with the children  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
there's some t v show on now  
and i i think i've seen it once  
i don't get to watch much t v  
but uh there's a t v show where the man is the one raising the kids   and the wife is  
and i  
maybe they based it on that mister mom movie  
but uh   but uh there is a t v show out there  
i guess they're trying to gain more public acceptance of things like that  
because i know there are cases of where that happens  
and  
uh_huh  
right  
it's probably getting more and more accepted today  
in fact it seems like it's kind of like anything goes now  
you're not too surprised on much of anything  
when you know the husband's the one at home raising the children   the mother works  
that's not real surprising  
and  
right  
yeah  
in fact i'm pretty sure t i has something like that  
because uh one of the area supervisors uh in my area as a matter of fact took off um for a couple of weeks when his wife had their baby  
now it might have been just to take care of her and the baby   instead of having a you know a a nurse or someone come in or   or something like that or whatever mid wife or whatever they call it that they have for the first couple of weeks  
but i don't know if he took that out of his vacation or if they really do have a paternity  
he put paternity leave up there  
but it might have just been him describing the fact that he was taking vacation days to go be a father for a little while  
i don't know  
but i'm not real sure how that goes  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
well people they in general are just getting married a lot later  
i'm still single  
so i'm sure i'll be one of those parents that's you know one of those women in her thirties when when i get around to to ever getting married and having kids  
that's uh i think i think that's getting a little more common too  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i agree   i agree  
i think it also gives a woman a chance if she does have a job and a career  
it gives the man and the wife both the chance to both be working and maybe save up some money  
and then it gives her a little more option if she wants to stay home with the children while they're young   and be a mother for awhile  
and then once they've gotten to school age maybe she could go back to work  
so she's kind of got that option   if if they wait till later they've saved up some money  
that it's not as difficult for her to stay at home with the kids and live off one income or something  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i seem to see more women in uh in leadership type roles and management positions   in politics  
yeah  
like the mayor of dallas is a woman  
and i'm sure that twenty years ago that never would have happened  
but  
yeah  
she's i think she's in her second term now  
so she's she's  
yeah  
this is her second term  
i think she's going to going to uh   not going to run again after this  
but but uh we do and we have several council women that are women  
but   you just start hearing more and more  
in fact oh the the governor of texas is a woman too  
we can't forget that one  
so  
ann richards  
yeah  
she was [inaugurated] in january  
so   so you're starting to see more of that  
and i know when i was younger it was all the presidents and still all the presidents are men  
but i'm sure that one of these days well look at ferraro ran for vice president   and i guess one of these days we'll we'll eventually have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
i agree  
well i think we've we've gotten our five minutes  
or  
it was nice talking to you too  
you too  
bye bye  
well what what do you is think is the uh the main change in  
what generation are you  
i'm i'm thirty years old  
you're twenty nine  
okay  
so we're we're both children of the very early sixties  
um um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the family structure in general is being really [restructured] from one income to two incomes which means from one parent to two part time parents   if you're lucky  
um i uh  
it it's funny  
it's both of us then were really just adolescents when when  
i think most of the major changes for adult women were going on   in america  
i don't think changes are still progressing  
but it seems to me that the uh really the seventies the early seventies was a period of the most change  
and if i had to somewhat [abstract] about it it seems to be the major change has been that woman have acquired more choice  
uh i mean that's sort of the overall the [meta] the [meta] change as it were uh where that woman really have more of a choice now about what they do  
uh course they find that the choice creates its own [hardships] in a way because life is not quite as simple even if it is for your you know  
you can share something you really want which is a wonderful thing  
but it does seem  
like an awful lot of my uh my adult women friends are [anguishing] over over some of some of these choices  
um  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yes  
right  
she just settled for that  
yeah  
well i only know  
i have  
of my friends who have have children uh  
i only know of one woman who's decided to go that quote unquote traditional route  
and i have a lot of respect for her because she made it as a real choice  
she really knew that she didn't have to do that  
but she decided that was what she wanted to do in her life  
and she wanted that role  
she's a marvelous parent  
and i you know i say all power to her because she's an example to me of someone who really does have the choice  
i feel that a lot of uh women don't  
all right i said they have the choice  
but they don't necessarily feel that they do because they no longer feel like if they were just to be a parent rather than uh you know a sort of super woman success in the business world as well   they would somehow be perceived as a failure   in their own eyes or in others  
and and then you and then it's not a choice anymore  
uh and frankly it's the way that men are  
uh men don't have this choice  
they don't feel this choice  
uh in most [subcultures] in america that that i've been exposed to if the man were to say uh no i've decided not to work i want to stay home and do the child rearing my wife has a good job and i want her to keep that   and i i'm going to be the primary caretaker and you know and then then take care of the children because we don't want to put them in day care and this and that i think most americans would feel funny about that   maybe sort of feel like he isn't that success that he could have been  
so it's um  
uh_huh  
i didn't happen to see that  
oh yeah  
i knew i knew people who did that years ago  
but they were very [apologetic] about it  
because you could tell they were used to people saying what are you doing that for you know  
yeah  
yeah  
i've seen more and more companies that have uh parental leave not just maternity leave  
they can have paternity leave as well as maternity leave  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the other big change i see in in woman's lives is um to remain biological  
they uh women because they have choice are having children much later in life  
uh i mean my friends who are having children are having them at age thirty  
and uh if i'd been a couple of generations ago they would have had kids running around by then  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i actually think that i'm i'm somewhat encouraged by that trend because after all people live longer lives now   so it's not like you know it's not like you're going to uh you know pass away before your child is an adult   i mean barring you know [unforeseen] circumstances  
and i think most people make better parents when they are a little bit more mature  
i really do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
so i guess i i'm pretty encouraged  
i really am  
but then i'm a product of my generation  
i don't know if i had been born a hundred years ago and were looking at this time i might not like it  
but it sure seems nice to me  
uh i mean i have other things to complain about  
but in terms of uh woman's roles   um things really seem a lot more flexible  
yeah  
i mean it's still   it's still a small minority  
but it's   but it's an improvement  
it really is  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
what's what's her name  
no  
it  
we don't get much texas politics out in california to be honest  
uh_huh  
that's right  
although during during the presidential [debates] there was some really nasty [patronizing]   stuff toward  
i don't know if you saw those  
but i thought she was treated badly for being a woman   frankly i really did by by uh the the then vice presidential candidates   uh who really i thought had a [demeaning] attitude towards her  
and uh it was sort of it was acceptable to say certain types of things to her that she couldn't say back   that kind of thing which i i i found myself getting quite [enraged] about  
but really that's a previous generation  
i don't  
it's harder to imagine people of our age doing that   and not feeling really stupid  
well they've gotten their five minutes worth of us  
i've enjoyed talking with you  
okay  
take care  
bye bye  
okay  
what do you think about it  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do too  
i think it's going to  
in like in the future i think all women are going to work  
i mean they may let you off for a day or two to have your baby  
but that will be it  
or either they'll have a computer at home and in the hospital where you can just you know just continue right on with your work  
i mean it really is coming to that because most women now days cannot afford the time that they could take off unless the company pays them  
they can't even afford to take off you know to have children it seems like  
yeah  
right  
now i was real lucky because my husband had a good enough job where when my kids were you know when i had them and when they were small   until they got in junior high school my youngest got in junior high i didn't have to work  
i mean i didn't work  
i i needed to  
but i didn't  
let me tell you you go without a lot of things that you you know  
oh yeah  
right  
right  
well it's getting where you can't hardly afford if you're going to give your kids any kind of education and stuff you can't hardly afford to have over two  
and i mean it's hard with two  
now we  
uh my youngest one  
i have two  
i have a son and a daughter  
and my youngest one is going to be graduating from college soon  
and if i had a third one   i just don't know where it would come from  
because i work now  
i work full time  
and uh you know it  
when you put them through college it just takes just about everything you got  
they get loans and grants and scholarships and stuff like that  
that helps out  
but still it cost a lot  
right  
and cars and all their books  
and the books are outrageous   i mean absolutely outrageous  
and they're getting worse  
uh my daughter brought home a book the other day that she was going to have to have for her one of her next classes  
and it was like ninety six dollars  
and this book is a little bitty skinny book  
i said my goodness what is it lined in gold you know uh  
but it is it's getting worse  
and if i'd of probably had three or four children i don't see how we could have made it you know without me working  
right  
but i think i would have had to work  
if i'd of had that many i'd of had to work in order for my kids to  
you know even though he brings in a real good living and everything in order for me to keep up i would have had to work  
but i think it's getting more and more like   when you have one child now that's it you know  
then you go to work  
and you work  
because if you have two or three kids by the way the [inflation's] going i think a woman's always going to have to work  
and it's just going to be an accepted thing  
there isn't going to be any of this you know very few people will ever stay home  
yeah  
well you know i can't imagine how i did because now i work all the time  
and um well i work all week  
and um i can't imagine how i stayed home  
you know i think to myself what did i do  
and i think it just it [revolutionized] an where a woman thinks that a way you know just like  
now my daughter there's no way that she can imagine herself married at the age that she's at now  
to her everything is you've got to go through college you've got to get a job you know  
and then when everything's set up then you look for somebody that you want to spend the rest of your life with  
but   i mean it is so far down the road  
where now when i graduated high school   the thing  
uh_huh  
and then you got married  
and then you had a family  
i mean that's just the way it was you know  
and uh that's like when my  
i know when my mother's age it was always the kids and the family and everything had to come first  
and the woman stayed home and took care of them  
an  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you know that now even  
whenever i was coming up and everything  
and we got married right out of high school well a year after i got out of high school  
and uh i didn't have kids for four and a half years  
but that was because i wanted to work  
and i wasn't ready for kids  
and everybody thought oh my gosh what is the matter with her you know  
right  
i mean they thought that it was terrible you know  
and then when i'd tell them you know well i'm just not ready for children yet  
oh but that you know you better you better just get ready now  
well you don't just get ready  
but i was kind of odd because as a general rule the people that married during my time they had kids within a year  
and i just was not ready for kids  
i wanted to get out and work a little bit  
and i wanted to travel and stuff like that which we did  
and uh kids didn't fit in right then  
but it's getting more and more like that where there's more and more couples  
and really if you don't want the kids then it's not the time to have  
i don't care what anybody tells you  
and i think that more and more the [attitude's] getting that a way  
because that's like my daughter  
now she says that you know maybe when she's thirty she might want a child then  
and uh even though i'd like to have grandchildren i can see her point  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and it really is  
i know  
just like now you know there's there's so much more now  
all my income goes for things like luxuries  
i mean it really does   accept for what we give to my daughter to you know put her through college and stuff  
but the rest of it  
we just buy things like boats  
or we go on trips or you know just   the more or less like entertainment stuff  
but  
yeah  
i feel like i have you know because well we're just a age now  
i'm not old  
but i'm older  
and uh i got to stay home with my kids which i really wanted to do  
but now i could not go back and do it  
i really couldn't i don't think i could stay home all the time and do nothing  
and i mean i did stuff  
but   to me it feels like i must have done nothing  
and i think it's just the new way that people are thinking  
but uh  
well you know more and more of them are  
i don't know if it is up there where you are  
but where i am the just like all the hospitals   they're getting day care  
but the reason they had to do this was because so many people you know so many women could not afford  
like you said if you had four kids or even if you had two kids you would be paying all your salary to pay for those two kids to go  
so uh more and more of our hospitals especially over here are getting them  
and then some of the bigger companies  
but it's mainly the hospitals  
oh really  
well uh the roles have definitely changed   in the last generation or so  
um i think a lot of it has to do with women working  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
and it and it seems if you're going to have kids uh that you are you know society has decided for you how many you can really have and make it  
and uh because if you have you know two well if you go to work you're just working to pay for day care   two or three you know um  
uh_huh  
oh that is good  
yeah  
steve's steve has a sister who has four  
she just had her fourth one in uh march  
and she doesn't have to work either  
i don't know how they do it  
i i don't know how people do it with one  
you know um  
yeah  
obviously we don't have any  
and and i don't i think that's part of the role [reversal] is it's okay to get married and not have kids  
and i think for society for such a long time said well you know you're married now you need to have have your family  
and i don't think it's been until recently that that they had decided that two people was a family  
you know and  
right  
oh  

yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i mean just the you know the cost of living and loans don't pay for groceries and stuff  
oh i know  
i know  
gee  
yeah  
yeah  
but that's that's probably because you know if you had three you you know would say if i'd of had four  
i guess it's always not not being able to picture one more  
but in essence you probably would have worked out fine  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and and that's all right with me because i don't want to stay home  
you know i think i'm just part of the new stuff that is just  
i don't know i think i would just go nuts sitting at home all day long  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's you did that's what you did   uh  
yeah  
i uh i i like the way it is  
it's uh being  
see we're from houston and so it's not so hard for people  
you know you've been married three or so years  
and you don't have kids well it's okay nobody does  
but you come to a place like [belton]  
and  
a lot of the kids here get married out of high school  
it's real small town  
and  
and a lot of people in our  
we're the only couple in our sunday school class except for one other couple who are in their forties  
and they can't have children who don't have children  
and they can't imagine why we would want to have children  
and i'm going well you know there's more to life you know there's life in there that's  
you know not everybody has to have kids  
and i'd rather spend the time with my husband than you know spending time  
here it's your turn you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's what it is  
i'm not either  
they're probably going oh i bet she can't get pregnant  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
steve's mom finally uh finally you know said that that god will take care of us when it's our time  
she finally admitted you know she finally told me it's okay if you don't  
but it took every nerve in her body to say that because she's from a very very old fashioned family  
and she stayed home and raised her kids  
and and she expected all of her kids to do that too  
and their wives and to be the the housewife and have dinner ready by five and and you know be there at every [beck] and call  
and i was raised totally opposite  
how we got together i don't know  
but because my mother had six girls  
and you know she worked too  
and i guess i just  
and i saw how life was when she stayed home  
and it was rough  
it was hard  
and uh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i think you've you've earned that though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i think so  
i think it would be neat if if they could incorporate into small and large businesses both a built in day cares where the children were there in the facility but not necessarily right there with you  
uh_huh  
are they  
right  
yeah  
i don't know if the t i in dallas does or not  
i know i know nobody around here does it  
we're it's too small around here  
yeah  
all righty  
i think one of the most significant changes that have happened is that they've changed from homemaker to the work market   and for several reasons  
probably some of that is divorce  
and some is they're more educated than they used to be i think  
uh i think sometimes uh leaders in government they've become more uh [adroit] in that area too instead of just men all the time  
we have more women in government  
and now i'll let you say something  
very limited  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i think that's right  
uh_huh  
right  
i really think women have so much more responsibility than you know as far as everything  
and like you said uh one women today have so many uh  
the average today of having a a single family you know with the mother as the head   you know it just really uh so [commonplace]   nowadays  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
you know isn't that funny uh because the same thing happened to us except i was twelve  
and my mother had a nursing degree and was able to make it in her profession  
and was  
isn't that funny   uh but just that they were able to do it   you know  
and even today i think the chance for education is is is so much uh better for all of our girls   and and boys too  
but but the girls especially  
a lot of things  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
and i also think that in the future that uh it's going to continue  
we're not going to see a lax off of women in the work force  
i think they're going to stay there  
and i think that they're going to uh uh be really responsible and and do everything just like what you said you know make make it the grade and and make it so women can be the top people in their   in their field  
oh i think so  
right  
right  
exactly  
exactly  
that's right  
and i think that is happening more and more  
i think it's just going to take a little bit longer  
well great  
okay  
good to talk to you sally  
thanks  
bye bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh i probably a little bit older than you are  
so what i see uh is  
the change that i see the most is is that uh women have much more many more occupations and careers to choose from than when i went to college  
when i went to college you could be a teacher or maybe a nurse or a secretary  
or but there were very few women in business at that time  
a few  
but they were the [oddity]  
and   yes  
and now i see  
and and i see for my daughter which is wonderful this  
she's thirteen  
and i see a whole wonderful world out there that she can choose from  
so many different jobs which i think is terrific  
because i'm a teacher  
and i mean i love teaching  
but there i think there are a lot of other things i would have liked better  
and uh not that i would give the career up because it's it's a safe career plus because i always have a job plus i am a single parent too  
and i i need the income  
but uh and i think that's the reason why a lot of women have have started to work too is because economically it's just a must  
uh you just  
it's very difficult to get along on one income unless uh the male uh has an extraordinarily good job  
and especially men who teach school they don't make that much money  
and and most all  
they always either have  
they're either [moonlighting] or else their their wife works too  
uh it's just an economic need now  
oh definitely  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
exactly  
we have quite a few teachers at our school that are single parents  
and   uh the majority is uh married couple with children  
but still there's a lot more than there used to be  
and see you never picture yourself in a situation like this  
when i married i thought i'd be married the rest of my life  
and uh but i'm all i'm really grateful that i went to college  
my mother always said you know get an education in case you need one because my father died when we were  
i have a twin sister  
and we were eleven when he died  
and she had a nursing degree  
and she was able to make it  
but she said in you never know what's going to happen  
and i thank god that i did go to college and got a degree because otherwise i don't know how i would be able to raise my children  
isn't that something  
yes  
yes  
oh yes  
yeah  
i do too  
but i think it needs to continue to change  
and i i think it there's still not equality as far as uh paychecks for men and women  
i think that the we still have a long way to go  
uh_huh  
and i think that uh i think by the year two thousand it we're going to see some a lot more changes uh hopefully that women are you know able to get the the executive jobs   and hold positions that men men do because they can do it just as well you know  
if they want to dedicate their most of their time to that they they're they can do it  
uh uh  
exactly  
exactly  
and i think that's the way it should be  
i think it  
i mean not that i i think that i'm equal to men because there's a lot of things that men can do that i could never do strength wise and so forth  
but also there's some things women can do like have children   that men can't do  
so you know it  
i don't i don't want to be equal  
but i i want to be i want to get what i deserve  
and i want to be able to be on the same level with them  
if i can do a job as well as i man i think i should get the same pay you know  
and   and i just i'm not a women's libber  
i really am not  
but i i think that that we have just as many rights as they do  
and i feel like if there's a qualified woman to do the job and if she's good or better than a man then she they should get the job with the same pay  
i do too  
oh i do too  
definitely  
well it was good to talk to you  
all right  
bye bye  
hi this is judy  
i'm from maryland  
and i'm in california visiting right now  
oh okay  
i know  
i'm sitting here going oh dear  
should we give it a try  
okay  
okay  
well um so  
so so what changes have you seen  
well actually   that's what i was thinking too  
and um you know just to jump ahead a little bit  
but then we can back up  
is it perhaps woman in politics is for the future  
because i don't see that really yet in positions of power really  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
um do you work in private corporation or government  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you  
that's the best status  
yes um  
i don't i see um  
and  
a government  
and i work in [academia] before  
and um actually there's one um woman in our i don't know what you'd call it uh institute who is a manager  
and i mean in a since perhaps um a lot of she gets protected a lot because it's almost like a token  
and and it's sort of unfortunate because i think that they don't accept her technically  
and but she's a good paper [pusher]  
and it's in a technical position really  
and you know she should be more technical for what she does  
and i think that's sort of unfortunate   because it doesn't it doesn't really help the cause in the long run  
but um you know i don't know  
and and teaching i still see that that's where most of the woman are  
in teaching  
and you know and it's always been that way  
right  
not well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
not department   [chairmen]  
yeah  
not the [deans] and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um and do you think it's because women aren't qualified or or just don't or don't want the job or just aren't hired for the jobs  
uh_huh  
they're just not selected somehow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
but i'm wondering how many women actually major in engineering  
but you know i say that  
but yet i know too  
yeah  
i'm sure there are yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean the two that i know obviously are not in teaching  
but   um it's i suppose in a since i was surprised when they told me they majored in engineering  
i don't know why  
i but i don't know that many men that have majored in engineering   either  
i mean it's just because i'm in the humanities it's just  
you know it's not   it's not something that i tend to hear about  
but um yeah  
it's a  
oh that's interesting  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i i suppose that that it's difficult to really say why because uh you know there there probably are a limited number of women who are interested in the subject and well qualified  
and maybe there aren't you know  
maybe they don't apply for the job  
right  
right  
which could be you know partially cultural anyway  
so that it might be [circularly] being the same problem of of expecting not to get hired for the good jobs anyway  
so why spend your time getting qualified  
it's a it's a rough   it's a rough a rough situation  
um and i guess what i what amazes me is the number of men who are willing to stay home with the kids  
or and in our case we actually have one father who works part time a six   hour day so that he can take the kids kids or kid i'm not sure   to school in the morning and be home when the children or child   comes home in the afternoon  
this is uh  
well see   i don't know anything about the family  
but but yeah  
i would imagine she might um  
because he's you know he's a really nice guy  
but he did say that because he was in the humanities and he's now working in more of a technical situation that he had trouble finding a job  
so that maybe he you know maybe she was more qualified  
but but still it's interesting that you know he   he's been doing this evidently for a a good number of years  
and uh but it's unusual  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i  
oh he was   even before they had children  
oh now that that really is  
oh she was  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean i think that would be it would it would strike one as strange if there's no reason for   somebody to stay home that  
yeah  
that's true  
but but yet you know we have to think about that  
because if if she had offered to stay home we wouldn't have thought anything  
so so we're   carrying our own prejudice  
yeah  
oh gee  
i guess we can't win  
because if yeah if if somebody does if and breaks tradition you're surprised  
but if  
oh dear  
so so  
if they could get away with it  
oh dear  
you know well uh i mean it it's an interesting topic  
yet i must say it's not one that i've given a great deal of   of thought to  
but uh   in the past  
it's um one of those things that you know seems to happen  
i don't i don't feel for the most part that i've been discriminated against  
no  
i was a department [chairman]  
i but i don't like administration  
so then i'm uh uh probably a poor example although you know i was an administrator and could still be i suppose  
uh_huh  
oh really  
you were you were more ambitious than they would let you be  
yeah  
yeah  
well i would  
uh  
oh jeez  
yeah  
actually in a since i suppose when i was hired into the government um at i was taken advantage of  
and and that's true that you know sometimes other people get get higher [increments]   for you know even  
right  
right  
that's probably true  
i hadn't i hadn't thought about it because i do like what i do  
and   uh i just sort of ignore the administrative   part of it since i didn't like it when when i had to do it  
so i i figure you know nobody must uh nobody must like it  
it must be a rotten job for everybody  
but i know some people thrive on it  
oh gee  
well since i don't have a whole lot more to say on the topic  
hi judy  
this is norma  
and i live in virginia  
we got a great topic  
i guess we might as well  
okay  
let you start  
what changes uh  
i guess the biggest  
i don't know your age judy  
but uh in my lifetime the biggest is in more women working   definitely  
yeah  
for the well yeah  
right  
i don't see them in positions of power in corporation either  
not many  
i did work in government  
and before that i worked in a bank for eight years  
and now i'm retired  
that's right  
which do you work in excuse me  
a government  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
in teaching  
but not at the college level  
we live in a college town  
and i worked at the university for a while  
and there are there are woman there  
but they're not the high paid   professors that   the men are  
well they did have one woman dean  
but and i guess she she probably did very well  
but that's the minority  
none of the above  
i think they are extremely well qualified  
uh i don't know how  
i think they're not selected  
and of course at this university uh  
this it's a big engineering school  
and i don't think there are many women in the engineering college  
and that's where the high pay is  
quite an  
well i think there are more than there used to be  
but they may not go into teaching  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i met one one day that uh had just joined the faculty in agricultural engineering  
and that really surprised me  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't know  
i don't i don't know how many go on and get a p h d in engineering  
that could be  
that's true  
uh_huh  
that's right  
oh  
that's interesting  
is it uh was she the major wage [earner]  
i mean did she earn more money that he did  
or   you know  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i know one uh gal  
that's she's a c p a  
and her husband is a house husband  
and then they had a child  
and he he was still the house husband  
he wasn't   going to  
uh_huh  
even before that  
right  
she was a little [perturbed] about it  
at one time  
i don't know how she's moved away i don't know how it is now  
but i know uh we're we all went out one evening  
and after work and uh she was there was an underlying note she was [perturbed] about it  
uh_huh  
i don't think there was a valid reason  
because her statement was i told him let's face it  
you're a house husband  
that's what your going that's what you'll always be  
she wouldn't have be  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
it would it wouldn't have been a [doubter]  
uh_huh  
that's true  
huh_uh  
oh  
that's right  
i think maybe more men would like to be if they   weren't put down so badly  
huh_uh  
no  
i didn't  
how do you feel your career has gone  
you don't  
that's good  
oh  
uh_huh  
i was discriminated against very definitely in banking  
it was terrible  
right  
and the money didn't go with the positions  
the promotion [promotions] came  
but there there comparable pay for the responsibility  
and i was told you don't need as much pay as i have because your children are older than my children  
or your husband has a good job  
and  
i  
uh_huh  
i think we uh are [programmed] to just take it   as it comes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't  
all right  
i guess the biggest one is number of women in the work force  
few are uh basically staying home and being homemakers and raising kids exclusively  
uh_huh  
yeah  
true  
well mine taught kindergarten  
but she was always uh  
i guess her schedule was shorter  
so she was always uh   home  
yeah  
yeah  
that that statistic i guess has been growing every year  
it's like something around sixty sixty five percent or so now  
uh i'm not sure what the future holds for that  
whether  
uh_huh  
huh  
that's unusual  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is tough  
yeah  
we're looking at that now  
my wife's about six months along  
uh_huh  
true  
yeah  
i'm surprised that the main people you work for are women that do stay home  
i would think it would be women that were working full time  
huh  
uh_huh  
huh well i guess that's good that they they've got something to keep them active  
yeah  
we're   we're going to try and have her stay home for as long as possible  
what do you think  
yeah  
we think it's uh that important  
and i i kind of hope that the trend goes back in that direction  
i'm a a counselor and a therapist  
and i work with adolescents  
and i see some of the problems the kids have when they don't have a real good family structure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
true  
well the [husbands'] roles are almost nonexistent in family anymore in terms of being the father figure  
and with women working so much they're kind of pulled out of it too  
so kids are raised around their friends and by the media  
and that's you know that's contributed  
yeah  
maybe that's contributed to a lot of the problems that we see all the time  
so if there was some way for for women to to stay home even if they could work you know  
there are a lot of jobs that are coming about like in computers at home   and those types of things that would at least in some ways um bridge the gap  
about  
the balance  
i don't  
the the divorce rate keeps [hovering] around fifty percent or so  
and it got higher than that for a while  
um that's hard to say  
families are such a strange [configuration] anymore  
um i i see a lot of families where  
you know in the in the back  
i grew up about the same time you did  
and back in those times we pretty much were taught how to be responsible  
uh nowadays it's not the case  
kids don't kids are bombarded with all kinds of junk  
and one of the reasons i guess is because there's so much more income in the family with both parents working  
they get bombarded with junk  
and they don't have to do anything around the house  
they never learned to be responsible when  
the bigger trend called the [boomerang] kids where they move out for a while  
and they come back  
and you got twenty and thirty year olds who are living at home with mom and dad  
so  
you know you create a bigger bigger family generation after generation but not really on purpose  
so it's not not a real functional situation anyway  
so you know i don't know it's i don't know that that [trend's] going to change the single parent type families  
and the families as long as we've got so many other crazy things going on in society  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it is  
i guess unless unless there's a a major swing in the change of what's important to people you know probably keep going downhill  
and i i don't know  
we we feel like that that we can make it on one income  
it it may be tough  
but we may have to give up on some some things  
yeah  
yeah  
i think so too  
okay  
well i've enjoyed it stephanie  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
what what changes do you think have taken place in the last generation  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i i grew up in uh sixties and early seventies  
and uh my mom didn't work at all when i was growing up  
she didn't start working until i was um well into high school  
so i i had the advantage of having a mom at home that nowadays kids it's a luxury item for mothers to be home with their kids  
always home by the time you got home  
uh_huh  
it seems like there's it seems that there's a grass roots um effort or whatever going on  
i i um clean houses part time  
and almost all the people that i clean for believe it or not are mothers that don't work  
um  
they are they're all um  
it's and it's i think it's kind of a new movement  
it's going back towards you know  
women have come into the work force in the last twenty thirty years  
and now they're wanting to go back to the old days where you know women stayed home with the kids you know and try to give the kids quality time  
and i i think that in the future you're i think you're going to see a lot more um women choosing to not work after they have a baby  
um i think with uh the uh the work force with the the salaries that  
a lot of a lot of the women that i work for have husbands who are um vice presidents of companies  
and i think with uh um this it seems like it's more the upper class people  
um i don't see it as much the like in my situation where i don't i don't have children yet  
but ideally i would like to be able to stay home with my kids  
but realistically that's i'm i'm realizing that's probably not going to be possible um for middle class people to be able to live just on one income  
uh_huh  
i think it's going to be a luxury item to be able to stay home with your kids  
you know it's going to kind of kind of go along with the b m w in the driveway and or in the garage or whatever  
um and the quarter of a million dollar home or whatever  
yeah  
believe it or not though the all the women that stay home are real busy when they are home  
um they're real active in volunteer work  
um one of the women is real active with uh [muscular] [dystrophy] and uh does a lot of of work with them on a volunteer basis  
but it's still it's almost like a job  
she just doesn't get paid for it  
yeah  
when when your wife has her baby is she going to stay home  
or is she going to   go back to work  
that that that  
i would i would like to be able to do that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i see a difference in the generation of even the generation before me   uh were you know mom was like um mrs [cleaver] uh you know june [cleaver] or whatever  
where the the attitudes were a lot different  
um as far as i think the kids back then seemed to be a lot more  
um there wasn't a lot of the drugs and alcohol and   um a lot of the the things that are going on in today's society  
i think morally um it seems like there was people were a lot better back then as far as higher standards  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
and i think i think you're going to see a lot more of that in the future  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i think that um in the future um the the family unit as it as it once was known is is going to be nonexistent  
what how do you what do you think  
that as far as  
do you think there's going to be still a family unit  
or or do you think that um the trend is going more towards single parenting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think that eventually the the family [unit's] just not going to even exist anymore  
like you said the divorce rate is getting so high that i think there's going to be more single parent families than there are um you know two parent families  
that's pretty sad  
i i think in the long run though your child will benefit from that  
and it will it will make the the strain worthwhile  
well i i need to go ahead and and wrap it up  
um it was really nice talking to you  
and uh thanks a lot  
okay  
bye bye  
yeah  
the changing roles of women how roles changed  
and what do you see coming in the future  
okay  
yeah  
sounds good  
okay  
hold on  
are you there  
oh my goodness  
i can't believe i did that  
okay  
hold on  
okay um  
i  
no  
i i'm twenty three  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know that  
uh_huh  
i know that uh in in the early seventies uh i think women were the first people to to make a move as far as individuals  
um uh before that a lot of people that wanted to protest were large groups like uh black people or you know just large large groups of people  
but but the  
right  
and i think i think the women's movement kind of brought in individual lives where you had women's movements  
and you had gay movements   and just the smaller groups of people  
and i think since then is is when a lot of the women's roles have started to change  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
i think that uh you know you can just look at home life and see i've been talking to a lot of people about education and things   and and what what what affects the school system  
and i think that a big thing that effects it is that the mother is not home anymore   um like she used to be  
she used to be kind of a kind of a a rock you know   in the house  
yeah  
and uh since since everyone is going out and working now whether it be because of finances or just the economy   uh the mother's not there anymore  
and the children are  
i think i think a lot of society is suffering  
not to say that women shouldn't you know go out and do what they want to do  
but i think that um   society's really going to have to get used to it  
and they're not quite used to it yet  
and that's i  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
speaking of getting married i was talking to someone yesterday on this on the project  
and uh uh we were talking about child care  
and he asked me if i had any kids  
he was about forty or fifty years old  
and i said no i'm just twenty  
and i said no i'm just twenty three   you know because i don't think of myself as needing to have children  
but the first thing he says is well don't you miss that part of your life  
and i just  
i  
my my mind just went  
i went what   you know  
because it it really didn't doesn't even occur to me right now to have children  

yeah  
and i it just you know  
i think that i'll probably have children when i'm about thirty thirty five something like   just because i'm not sure if it's just if it's just me or or women in general that are twenty three right now because um i'm really into my career  
i'm trying to go somewhere and   and get there quick and then worry about you know because right now in my career i'm i'm really starting out  
and it's going to take me a while to move up  
and i don't need anything kind of holding me back um  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's just really not there anymore  
and that that has to do with you know the women getting out and other women seeing uh women seeing other women you know   out in the corporate world  
that's like oh i can do that  
you know maybe   i don't need to get married  
she's she's about forty  
uh_huh  
okay  
i i just turned twenty three uh   april twentieth  
and i'm still going you know oh my god i'm getting so old  
i just  
because me myself i just like to move really really quickly  
i like to  
anything i do  
i got out of school quick  
i'm you know   i'm working quick  
i want to move up quick  
i want to make money quick  
i want to retire quick  
and so anything  
when the age creeps up where i'm twenty three and twenty four   i'm thinking my time is running out you know  
but i'm actually very very young  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
exactly  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think i think a lot of uh people probably feeling that way  
i know i'm probably feeling that way because it's everything's geared towards young   you know  
and whether i want to realize it or not everything on television is young   young young young  
you can't be a model after thirty  
you can't do this after twenty you know  
and   everybody that's in the music business is starting out at fifteen   you know  
and so i feel like i'm old  
it's like i sing   i sing  
and i would really love to become   uh a professional singer  
but i think i'm too old now  
and i'm twenty three  
because everyone i've seen coming up they're fifteen   you know  
and so i'm going i'm so old  
and i'm i i really have to always tell myself no you're not you're very young  
and you know so it's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
very true  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that's why i say i feel i feel really lucky right now because i'm not married and because i don't have children  
i'm out of school  
i'm twenty three  
i can do anything i want to do anything  
and so i mean even some days i'm looking for another job now  
but and i get so depressed because not because i can't find a job but because i can't figure out what i want to do  
and yeah  
and i  
and i'm lucky though because not a lot of people can sit there and go gee i don't know what to do  
i have so   you know  
not a lot of people  
but it's depressing too  
what do you what do you that you're  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
huh  
huh okay  
i'm a i'm a news reporter now  
and what i'm looking for is something in i really don't want to stay in news  
but i would like to stay in journalism  
and i've been looking for something exactly like that  
uh_huh  
okay  
no  
i i went to u t at austin  
and i i just happen to work at a waco station because you know  
broadcast news t v  
women  
oh okay  
that's not a broad enough topic  
i'm ready when you are  
okay  
yeah  
i'm here  
that's okay  
okay  
um i don't know  
are you in your thirties  
or  
oh okay  
well then i can tell you that roles have changed  
i'm thirty eight  
and they changed quite a bit  
um i  
this was my twentieth high school reunion in chicago  
and basically um the choices i mean you know  
you probably heard that in the fifties women liked to stay home and all that  
that's kind of um the opposite of what it was in the sixties and early seventies  
it was sort of just to um go protest  
and uh just everybody be damned and live with some one  
and you know   social morals were a little bit lacking  
uh_huh  
right  
it was more it was more civil rights oriented   or race oriented rather than gender based  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it did  
it did  
and some of the other stuff that um i think that changed it you uh when i first got out of college fifteen years ago they were always saying well if you if you were assertive you were a libber  
or you were aggressive not assertive and independent  
and in terms of the corporate community i've seen a big change in terms of men finally being quote unquote used to women   who are in uh controlling positions   as higher you know corporate in the corporate [hierarchy]  
so i think that's good  
uh_huh  
right  
the [mainstay]  
yeah  
and restructuring [stepfamilies]  
yeah  
right  
the schools or the the schools or the parents  
yeah  
um i'm trying to think of what else  
i have a lot of opinions on this except all of a sudden i went blank  
a lot of the things um the demographics do  
i mean there are more  
i don't have the numbers in my head right now  
but a lot of the things that brought [feminism] i mean there are just more women in in in the demographics just generally   in the united states in terms of being  
i mean i'm the typical baby boomer  
i hate that term  
but in terms of women   women going out i mean twenty three i remember that  
what's it like to be twenty three as a woman today  
i mean when i was twenty three the issues were either go to graduate school or get married  
um those were the general issues  
uh_huh  
he was ancient  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you didn't know what you're going to be missing  
i don't have any either  
and i've been a married for eleven years  
so  
yeah  
when it's time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you want to establish  
uh_huh  
right  
and and you'll find that that's the other big thing that has changed in terms of   um women don't feel like they need to get married anymore  
i was twenty seven when i got married  
and i just at the time um  
my husband actually even jokes about it  
he was twenty three when we met  
an i was at a point where it was like i didn't date  
i mean i just i went out to have a good time  
but i didn't have to have male companionship  
um and a lot of the um friends that i had in school at that point who had gone back and gone to law school or m b a programs   um which i also had done had just you know they were very sad  
but then by the time i got married um   it seemed like they were on their second or third around the marriage track  
so i guess that's a big change in terms of just um the [attachments] that women feel like they need to have the dependency   their self identity is stronger  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
and i i i mean i don't know how   how old your mom is  
she's probably  
let's see my mother's in her early sixties  
so  
okay  
i'm thirty eight  
your mother's  
i just turned thirty eight  
um yes  
i'm laughing  
oh my god  
it does start to creep up  
no  
um but it's okay  
don't ever let age  
i mean i don't  
nobody talks about it for women except other women and other men  
uh_huh  
yeah  
an  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you are because what i was going to say is what you will find is my background is in journalism and corporate communications  
and what you'll find is  
i mean i'm just now finally to a point where  
i mean i don't know why i didn't didn't do it sooner  
but this is probably typical of the women's movement too   is the idea that you're going to be forty tomorrow anyway if you want to go back to school  
i'm seriously considering going back to school for law   um which is a complete i wouldn't say career change it's it's a subway  
but it's still is a different application  
and i mean if you think about it you know i i still can have another career  
i mean i've worked for over fifteen years in what i've done  
and i mean so when you're saying quick um i think that's probably one thing that your generation coming up after mine   is thinking that um they have to do you know sort of   i call kind of i call it a chewing syndrome  
they have to eat real fast  
they have   they have to [rapidity] of speech  
they have to just go through everything  
and you'll find that probably by the time your twenty eight thirty if you haven't slowed down   something will slow you down  
do you know what i'm saying  
um because it's just you find out that you're really not um smelling the roses  
and i know that sounds trite   and all that  
uh_huh  
oh it is  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you're not  
no  
no  
that's true  
i mean it's it's  
no  
you're extremely  
yeah  
it's it's  
well it's like us we're getting ready to do if possible for an adoption  
and i have friends that say well why would you do that   if you know you haven't been able to children which we do know   why would you do that now at this part point  
and um it's just individual choices  
i stopped comparing myself a long time ago to somebody who had um  
in my family my brother's children  
i mean he just turned forty  
his children will be out of high school before he's forty five  
um i mean that's like your mother  
look how young she is   compared to where you are out of school and everything  
it's just it  
but what you find is you don't compare the woman because you just get into trouble  
it's all independent and choices  
um but what i was going to say about mothers is uh your mother probably just won't say it  
but i mean my mother and her sisters are always saying uh to my cousins and i my female cousins   you girls are so lucky because quote unquote you have all these choices you know  
you went to school  
you can do this  
you can do that  
we couldn't do that then  
and my cousins and i go well why couldn't you  
uh_huh  
and that's normal  
i mean   i think that's the world today  
right  
that's  
yeah  
that's how i mean   what i'm right now  
i'm i'm a free lance writer right now  
and then um what i'm doing is working at um a an electronics company   for their company newspaper   right now on the side  
and then i'm also  
actually i'm excited tomorrow i have a uh luncheon appointment with a perspective client to do   uh marketing communications for them  
oh you are  

here's what you  

this is off the topic  
and those people probably  
did you go to baylor by any chance  
oh okay  
that's even better  
i went to  
or you in radio or television or news  
uh my journalism degree is in  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
around there huh  
well you're you're just a youngster then  
i passed the fifty  
so i guess our [topic's] going to be changes in the women's roles  
so   it should be real interesting  
so you think we're ready  
okay  
okay  
uh you want to start off  
uh_huh  
very much yeah  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think all things get started sometimes in that manner  
you know they come in that way  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i hadn't thought much about that  
but that is true  
that  
uh_huh  
some of them  
no  
no   uh_huh  
very much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
not  
no  
they they hurt themselves a little bit in that way  
uh_huh  
there you go  
there's a lot of truth in that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right   uh_huh  
yes  
it shouldn't be destroyed  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's kind of makes it exciting   you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think now when both are working they have a more more of a chance of working together because they're starting out that way  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
because you get set in your ways  
and it's   really hard because to to really to get help   uh you know to get the work load shared  
yes  
uh_huh  
our  
i we have five children  
they're   they're all grown and on their own  
so  
they're uh  
uh how do you mean that  
uh we have uh two girls and three boys  
and our   our baby girl just had a baby girl  
last week was her first baby  
so it's been real exciting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
have you been that way long  
just eight years  
that's that's a long eight years though  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that makes a big difference  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
well probably your role  
and and the way you are also has changed though   you know compared to what it would have been twenty fifty years ago  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the best you can yeah  
i  
yeah  
that's the only thing i worry about is the the child's love and security  
that  
i think that's being damaged uh   a lot  
uh_huh  
i do too  
i i think uh  
now some some women can can do both  
they're very capable of working  
and and  
uh_huh  
it it really is yeah  
uh_huh  
so many have to work to make a go of it it seems  
or they say they do anyways  
and but i think ones that don't have to the  
it's not as much of a stigma not to work as it was for a while there  
well that could be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
you mean it's stronger there  
much stronger  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
but they're both  
yeah  
they're both different people too  
that's   that's where the trouble lies  
some people some people can adjust and have both do both well  
and others can't  
uh well uh i have one daughter that works full time  
she has two little boys  
and they seem to do fine  
she has been has talked about quitting you know and staying home for a few years  
but then it's real hard because she's got an excellent job  
uh  
uh basically i'm at home  
and i have two cats   and my husband  
i mean my husband's great  
it's wonderful   you know  
and and uh so i'm about forty and whatever  
so yeah  
yeah  
i'm just a   spring chicken i guess  
well  
[righto]  
i think i'm ready  
well let's see  
the changes i've seen in women's roles uh  
since i am in the forty age i'm a fifties baby   uh  
and from my mother's generation to my generation it's just a very very wide uh it's been a big change  
very much  
and i think you'll have to agree  
and   and since we were in uh sort of the ground level the [bra] burning of the sixties  
and and we didn't really know what the agenda was going to be   uh  
and i think you know it got off to a really radical  
it has a radical fringe to it that uh i've sort of backed away from  
yeah  
and to make a change you know you have to make a [splash]  
but to continue in that vein i think it got a little bit warped and off the track   in several areas  
but i really do think that women have made a contribution   uh to human beings i mean to be human and what it's like and have feelings and emotions  
and it's okay  
and i think uh you know on the other hand i don't know that men have changed that much  
so in in contrast to the women's changes uh you know the men stay steady  
and then the women change around them  
uh i think men are trying  
but they don't have a national organization of men   to uh help them out  
and   uh what's changing them though is the economic situation   where both   team it has to be a team [partnership] now  
and they both have to work  
and they both have to raise the children   if we're going to have any kind of future at all  
and and that i think has been the downfall of the last ten years  
you know the me oh  
i don't know  
the the [yuppiedom]   the whatever it was the you know women didn't know how to go about doing the careers  
and they wanted to compete with men  
they wanted to be like men  
and that's wrong  
i think they finally discovered that they don't want to be like men men  
absolutely  
and so that's you know  
they sort of threw the thing back another you know ten years   that they've had to you know [restructure]  
but i saw the greatest t shirt the other day  
i got to get some for all my men friends  
it says let men run the world women have more important things to do  
right  
but uh i think men and women both have valuable valuable assets to offer  
and you know we shouldn't  
we were made differently   however you come to that conclusion  
we were [biologically] [physiologically] made differently  
and there is great [wonderment]   in that  
and uh you know we should respect that in each other  
so  
right  
and and you know just sort of all [swooshed] into one channel   sort of thing  
it's it's [viva] la difference   someone said that  
and i think that you can truly respect the other person  
i mean you know tom is just always saying what a mystery you are you know you know  
depends  
yeah  
well that depends on what day of the month it is  
but uh i don't know  
i guess we've gotten more of a  
in in terms of that i think we've got more of a sense of humor about each other   and our roles  
and but it's still a challenge being in a marriage and trying to figure out those roles  
and  
yeah  
well that's that's a very different way to do  
you know the woman doesn't start off at home   raising the kids and goes back into her career you know   twenty years later   uh  
you do   yeah  
are are you married  
do you have children  
oh my goodness  
oh my  
how did you do  
well i mean okay  
well did you have boys girls  
how did  
how  
oh my  
oh my  
oh how [exiting]  
i i tell you what  
i don't know what i would do without my friends having all their kids  
i just love the babies  
and and since i'm sort of in a medical situation where i can't do that it's  
just eight years  
just  
the most important years of my life you know  
yeah  
it has been  
and uh so there have been major major adjustments  
but that's another story  
but you know my husband has really really filled in the gaps  
i mean i   i couldn't ask for a better life  
i mean if this is the way it had to be   this is the best way   i could possibly do it  
and and that has a lot to do with his strength and his just pitching in and and his being able to you know all all ego aside do a lot of things   that really  
so when i say men haven't changed i guess i should look at my own backyard sort   of thing  
and  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
i mean boy  
i mean i i would have had so  
i had so much guilt to begin with  
and the changes that had to take place you know   where i couldn't do a lot of things   and uh just adjusting to that   that uh yeah that was a major change  
but so i guess uh in the end you know you each take your own situation and you and you deal with it the best you can  
but   but but women i think are a whole you know sort of riding the course  
they're they're got a little [wobbly] and a little shaky there  
i think the future of this whole thing is going to be what happens with the day care situation  
i think   we're going to see a generation of kids that you know are just going to be a little bit uh-oh not very [nurturing]  
i think  
yeah  
but i wish they weren't so many  
i i wish they weren't role models for everybody   because it's so dangerous  
it's dangerous for the woman too to think that she can do that  
and then when she can't you know the failure of that is   you know her life sort of falls apart  
and she doesn't know who she is  
and she's  
absolutely  
well you know i think that's that's really i think it depends on what part of the country you're in  
uh i i would almost just say that because you know down here in the south   you know a woman's role is   a woman's role   sort of thing  
and you know  
uh-oh yeah  
yeah  
and and i think that uh you know career women still have a lot of problems here   with the good old boys   here in texas sort of thing   making career moves  
but   uh you know in terms of women staying home and being appreciated for their talents uh it's just like the way it it has been for years   i mean you know since the days of the pioneers around here  
that's the woman's role  
and it and it's hard for her to uh you know watch her peers be appreciated i think sometimes  
but then i'm not there  
so i don't know that  
and i have women that do both  
and i see a little [jealousy] on the part of you know the woman what has two little boys  
and and she has an au pair which is a live in college kid working for her  
and then she has her business in the back  
and then my other girlfriend that has you know just runs the whole household herself and just has two kids and goes crazy   all the time  
and so i see i little bit of that  
and i always wish there was a balance you know   with the one and and wish she could spend more time with her kids  
and the other gal i wish she could just get out of dodge   for a while  
get some peace and quiet  
yeah  
definitely  
so you're right about that  
yeah  
and that's  
that's true  
that's so true  
how how did your daughter do it  
uh_huh  
right  
well uh how do you view this whole subject  
are you uh one who feels like you have have benefited from the change in in roles in women  
or or what do you think  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh yes  
i think so  
are you uh are you someone who works outside your home  
or have you  
oh yes  
well uh have there been significant changes uh do you think in the employment place especially uh say at t i  
have has anything in particular changed that you have noticed   during your time there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what what kind of work do you do  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
yes  
yes uh  
yes  
in years past i know in fact even even the word drafter has changed  
because it used to be they were [draftsman]  
right  
maybe not huh  
well uh i when i was in college  
i graduated from college with my bachelor's degree in nineteen sixty four  
and i was a math major which was a real rarity   among women at that time  
so i was in a lot of classes where uh there i was either the only girl or you know one of just a very   few women in the class  
so that was a change  
and uh even uh i did not uh use my math uh in my work  
i i became a technical writer  
but uh even so there were very very few women in technical writing  
but that has changed a lot  
in recent years it has just really really changed a lot  
and and i think that uh you know the one thing that i have seen is that more and more women are getting into management  
but i think they have got a long way to go  
there was something on t v the other day that said that fewer than one or two percent of the heads of uh [chairmen] of the board chair persons uh if you if you will   of the board are women in this country  
and i thought that you know that's pretty a pretty significantly small number  
so there are some some strides to be made there  
but uh i do not know  
i i think we have come a long way   actually   when i think about you know when things were like even when i you know just when i was in high school   and how it is now for girls  
and uh   uh i guess my i uh the one my one bad thing is that i am that i wish my mother had had some of those opportunities because i think she would have really she would have [succeeded] in a lot of ways   that men that women were not able to succeed   in her   generation  
so anyway do you have children  
i was going to say do you have daughters  
that's always a good question  
yes  
in fact i have a daughter who is in a a who just graduated in civil engineering from college  
so she is pretty much although there were some other women in her class   she was you know uh one of the minorities   uh females in the class  
so she definitely entering into uh a male profession  
but uh   but you know for instance there are there is the organization women the society of women engineers  
so that is recognized   as uh you know a place where women should be  
but uh i do not know  
i you see it in uh also in uh like in church uh where more and more women are becoming [ministers]   in uh you know in protestant [congregations]  
and uh it will be interesting to see if if roman [catholicism] ever uh [recognizes] women in   in the role of priest  
i i do not know if you are roman catholic or   you know what you know about that  
i am not either  
but uh that is one area where it that i can see might change but i really doubt will change  
no  
probably not  
huh_uh  
so uh uh how about what in particular would you think that uh women still other than the work place where women still are being uh-oh you know found wanting you know or not as highly [regarded] as men would be uh  
i was just trying to think  
oh i know something  
maybe you could  
what do you think that what do you think tell me what you think about this  
the uh the uh the role of women in combat roles during the war  
because i know that there now there they want the armed forces to recognize that women can serve in combat roles  
and the only uh branch in the armed services that seems willing to do that is the air force  
and   uh i spoke because women were filing flying missions into you know for whatever reason into uh in the persian gulf war  
and so but i know some of the other services do not think that women are capable of doing the job  
it was real interesting  
they were i was listening to some of the comments on television the other day   uh about it  
and uh one of one of the men who was a  
i do not know if he was a general or you know what his rank was very high  
he said it's just a personal thing with me  
i mean i can not be real you know i can not tell you why i feel this way  
but i just would rather have uh a man doing some of these jobs than a woman  
i thought well at least he was honest  
but that does not sit very well with a lot of folks i am sure  
yeah  
right  
you know neil well neil as far as i am concerned and i could be wrong about this but the only one area where a woman could not do it is if she just physically did not have the strength   to do something  
uh because i would think i think you know mentally uh and emotionally i think women can handle a job and   every bit as well  
so   anyway it's still  
sure  
no  
i would not either  
no  
i agree  
but i am sure that there are women who would would [relish] that   you know kind of job  
so   uh i guess that should be taken into consideration   as well  
so well this is an interesting topic  
um i have you know i have  
having a daughter who has gone into this into engineering   i sort of watched progress to see if she did anything differently than i did  
she's a lot more [forthright] about her opinions and   a little more assertive than i think i was  
so that's that's progress i guess  
well i have enjoyed talking with you lisa  
and   uh have you talked with a lot of people in this project  
or  
yeah  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
right  
yeah  
well   that's great  
that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
well   that's good  
that's good  
because uh i   i guess i placed all but one or two of my calls   and uh only because i going to make some money  
see we our choir is doing this as a money raising project  
we we got the connection through a t i uh church member  
and uh uh so we are doing it to raise money for uh a large project at church  
and uh so i feel like this is one way i can contribute that's   not too painful   financially painful anyway  
it's just real nice that way  
so uh i thought well i will just get on the stick and do it  
well i will say good bye to you  
but i have enjoyed the conversation  
thank you  
bye bye  
oh yeah  
i  
yeah  
i think so  
yeah  
there's been a lot of changes  
i think there's still a lot to be made though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i work for t i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh i guess there's more women in uh what would be classified as a man's job  
i am a drafter  
i am in a man's job  
but we have got more women in it now  
there's a lot of us in it  
so  
uh  
uh_huh  
we have some engineers that still on their uh  
the drawings that they mark up for us they put [draftsman]  
and i want to scratch it out and put drafter  
but i thought well i am   not going to do that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh definitely  
definitely  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
no  
huh_uh  
do you  
oh wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
no  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
not for a long time anyway  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there's some men out there that are more feminine than most women  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i do too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and you know if she wanted to go to combat   i do not see that they should stop her  
i personally would not want to go  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
good  
yeah  
well same here  
well i am not a home at home a lot  
i am at work right now  
i put my work number  
but at home uh the recorder gets my calls  
usually i am not there  
but i probably talked to seven or eight people  
uh_huh  
i personally have not made any calls yet myself  
i   just it never crosses my mind  
but i enjoy receiving them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's wonderful  
yeah  
that's great  
okay  
well thanks for calling  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
hi pat  
uh_huh  
we are certainly not  
our families have changed  
society has changed  
everything has changed  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's  
well even even raising boys today is different though because   they are expected to do so much more than they used to  
you know used to be they would just go off to work and come home  
and you know everything was done  
and it it's a different world  
it's   some good some bad uh  
it's nice that there's a choice  
i i have chosen to stay at home   and raise my children  
and i have a ten year old and a twelve year old  
and i was a single parent for awhile and worked  
and that was great  
i was able to and i was able to provide for my children  
and and you know   that was wonderful  
but i i thank god everyday now that i have that choice   and that i am able to do things at home  
and and uh i volunteer a whole lot  
and uh that's my job right now  
and i i love it  
i really love it  
right  
right  
right  
and that will come  
i know that day will come  
and i am looking forward to that too  
but that's a different phase in my life  
and i am i am glad that i am able to do what i want to do right now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
you are not beating rugs  
you are not right   doing laundry by hand and that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but don't you think it's that way with men too  
i mean you know men are sitting behind [desks] a whole lot more   than they used to  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
right  
and stress disorders and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
you know it's funny  
yeah  
yeah  
it's funny  
it's funny  
i was   i was really looking forward to summer thinking oh we are going to have some time off  
and it's been real busy  
and actually today is really the first as far as i am concerned the first day of summer   because we have had so much going on the past few weeks  
and uh you are right  
uh well that's how society has changed uh   you know uh  
the family has changed  
we you know we find ourselves doing things that   we never did as kids  
you know i do not remember   being involved in things like this  
it's it's different  
it's just  
i do not know  
only time will tell whether it's better or worse   than the way we grew up  
but uh   it's it's just very different  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
but is not that difficult to do when you are working full time and have to come home and prepare a meal and   get homework done  
and you know where do you find the time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's very true  
and then that way we have not changed in   hundreds of years have we  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
didn't he though  
that's very true  
that's that's very true  
i as a matter of fact i was talking to a friend yesterday who said she has a new policy in her home  
and when her her family comes to her and says fix this you know  
i am having a problem with   you know another member of the family  
she said i have taken a new stance  
and i say no  
i will not  
you know you work it out for yourself  
and she said it's amazing she said   you know  
every single person in this family [expects] me to get  
and they suck me into these arguments and   these conversations  
and i i am supposed to be the one who is going to fix it all and and [soothe] everybody  
and she said i am not doing it anymore  
i i just  
um uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
hi  
one of the interesting things that i have considered about the role change for women is that women of my age my generation were trained and taught and brought up to be the leave it to beaver housewives  
but we are not living in that world  
uh_huh  
families  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
that's one of the  
and it makes you really concerned  
i am glad i raised guys  
you know let the world train them what to do  
but [characteristically] you know the women are trained or have been in the past trained in the home  
and i really would be at a loss to to raise and train a girl  
i think i would  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i did very much the same thing until my boys got into high school and said mom please do not be involved  
then i went back to work  
yeah  
sure  
right  
right  
well you know there's a lot of things that have happened actually  
and and it's it's like the it's like oil on top of water  
it changes  
but it's never different   in a lot of ways  
uh women at one time did very heavy physical labor   and were expected to maintain a household  
then as times changed uh as it is today we do not do a lot of physical labor   even in even in housekeeping   and homemaking  
there's not a lot of physical labor   because there are  
uh_huh  
right  
and in that respect we have to make ourselves become involved in physical [exertion]  
or we really do develop some health problems  
so in in that in that respect i am not so sure that the hard work of years past was not better for us than we are willing to admit  
and uh  
oh absolutely true  
it's   that's true with society   in general  
but specifically the woman's role   in society has changed  
and you know medical reports tell us that women are developing diseases now that used to be [predominately] male diseases  
heart disease was [characteristic] of men  
now there's almost equally [predominant] in women  
and i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and i think that that's a that's a symptom of our society  
it's a symptom that there's there's a general illness that needs to be [healed]  
i do not know what the healing process would be or what was causing the problem  
i am not i am not god  
but i i do know that in raising my boys i really did meet a lot of pressures saying you know you need to get them into music lessons  
you need to get them   into sports  
you need to get them into this  
they need to be busy  
and they need to be active  
and i fought all of those things  
i said if those boys want to be involved in that they will come to me  
and they will say mom this is important to me  
i want to do it  
otherwise i will guard their ability to have quiet time  
i refused to [cram] their lives full  
and that's the way it is with a woman too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
of course  
uh_huh  
well i just am very much a believer in quiet personal time  
if you do not have the time to talk to yourself who are you going to talk to  
right  
and i [guarded] my children's rights for that  
and i think that that's one of the things that women are sacrificing that they should not do  
they are sacrificing their time with themselves  
there's nothing wrong with sitting and being bored   if you thinking internally   and you are   working on your own self  
you are finding out who you are  
well i think  
um well in the first place it's not your homework  
it's your children's homework  
and i was always very careful to be there only when they came to me and asked me for help  
i helped them with exactly what they asked for  
and that's all  
that's a part of the problem that women have always had  
and that is accepting responsibility for things that really are other people's responsibilities  
they   they  
that's right  
that way husbands are crippled  
they are intellectual [cripples]  
and so are children  
they do not know how to think for themselves and be responsible   for themselves  
i do not know why god made women brilliant  
i  
yes  
but i do not know  
they tend to look at the mother as the one who [solves] all problems  
they   are all things to all people  
and that's never changed  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
you know i think that's one of the things that we have today that is very useful  
and i think every woman ought to deal with it or ought to at least be exposed to it  
and that is [mediation] training  
uh we are not talking about strikes or things  
we are talking about [mediators] who get involved in family [crises]   parents and children husbands and wives   uh you know boss and employee those kinds of things [interpersonal] [mediation]  
because the [mediator] is an unbiased bystander who  
okay  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh mercy  
yeah  
that that's too bad  
um um that's sad  
it really is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's that's wonderful  
uh_huh  
well that's wonderful  
that speaks   well of your mother  
she had high standards  
yeah  
oh bless her heart  
challenges  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  

uh_huh  
surely  
well i think that you carried forth your subject matter very well uh [nickie]  
and i can uh relate to that uh  
uh i think it's it's the image that the woman has and uh in the world   as uh the lesser of the two  
and uh i think things are changing  
but the changing is taking a long time longer than we would like it to   like it to take  
and   uh i think we are progressing at a [snail's] pace  
but we are progressing  
so that's the main point is that we are going ahead  
and uh i think that uh in the long term that women are going to be able to have the recognition that they deserve  
and uh men uh have a lot of them have uh come around and have seen   the error of their ways  
but there are a lot of die [hards] out there that will never change  
so we have to uh face that reality also  
it could be if they are they are not sure of themselves  
the one's that uh go along with that they are sure of themselves  
and they know that they can uh you know uh be on the same level  
and they do not have any uh ego uh problems that they are fighting  
and uh i think that we are going to be uh on par with them   in salary and in recognition   in the long term  
uh and i what i would like to see happen [futuristically]   is what we are discussing   is that yes uh we each have our uh jobs in life   and that we should recognize that and that we should support each other  
and uh i think our problems would be fewer   if we supported each other   and just looked at each other as equals and none lesser because we are equal  
uh_huh  
uh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i guess we would have to go back to the way that the lord made us  
and uh the women when they are married they are to be subjective to their husbands  
and i believe that strongly  
and uh but i think that they should be in [harmony] with what they are with what the subject matter is  
and i think the issue should be settled before there's a conflict  
uh and i think that can happen in a very wonderful way  
and if we men and women would do as the bible said that we would esteem each other higher than ourselves  
can you picture that  
i mean if your husband did that to you   and you did that to your husband   you would always be trying to please each other and not yourself  
and uh that's really the the [divine] answer   and and the right answer  
so uh uh that would be a beautiful relationship  
and i think there are some people that have done that  
and i have seen it  
and it's it's just marvelous  
and i am just in awe to see this  
all right  
well i am uh the product of uh i think as much the changing roles of women as anyone  
my mother uh  
we come from a  
my mother and i were uh really first generation divorce in our family  
my uh mother was divorced in nineteen uh fifty seven   when i was seven years old  
and was i was the first one of anyone that that anyone had ever known to have a divorce  
of course now fifty percent divorces in the united states uh  
my mother uh was treated very badly uh in a by a lot of people family members um especially from my father's side of the family  
and also uh uh uh we were uh   [ostracized] by his family uh basically just you know uh we just kind of dropped off the face of the earth  
and they all felt that there was never an issue that my father was the was the cause of the reason for the split up even though he had [impregnated] another woman and forced the divorce  
uh it was always my mother's fault she was not uh sufficient you know she just was not good enough  
what was wrong with her was she not attractive enough did she not take good enough care of her man to keep his interest  
it was that kind of an attitude  
so uh  
yeah  
it was too bad  
it was really rough  
uh so you know that's so changing  
some of the changing roles of women in that respect i have been a product of  
um i think that there are people that i think that uh  
i was i was first generation going to college in my family  
uh first my mother had always had a quote career but always a career as a uh uh in a secretarial position  
she did rise to the highest position that a woman could rise to in a secretarial profession in [des] [moines] iowa  
she was a secretary to uh uh the to uh a circuit court judge federal judge  
and it was a lifetime appointment for her as well as for him  
so that was a really high high status position  
she made over thirty thousand   a year  
well yeah  
she a real hard  
yeah  
hard driving lady with a steel rod up her back you know  
but uh so i went to college and now since have completed two masters degrees  
and i am the director of music in a church  
um and but it's interestingly enough i am still everyday confronted with  
absolutely  
challenges that have to do with my sex  
uh for instance uh well you know i am just not taken as seriously you know   at professions as many of the as many of the men who are doing the same job i do  
and uh the choir members treat me differently because i am a woman they expect me to be more [motherly]  
they question my authority more uh than they ever would a man  
and i have experience with this because i work at both both as a director of music and also as an associate under a man  
so i am pretty i am pretty pretty i mean i am pretty aware of what goes on   uh in the church  
so basically that's that's  
well i am done talking  
do you want to talk  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh always  
uh_huh  
indeed  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have never been able to figure out why they can not ever change why they can not bend i mean why they can not just accept you know competent women  
i i have never been able to understand that  
i guess it's fear  
i mean what  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
men have a lot of trouble with that though  
they in their in their own peer relationships they do not treat themselves equal  
and so it's really difficult for them to treat women as equals  
they are they are really much more comfortable with somebody being the boss and somebody being the follower  
uh it just seems that it seems it seems that they are more comfortable that way  
and i do not know if that's i mean that's it's a [militaristic] point of view i guess you know  
somebody can not be [colonel]  
and everybody else is [infantry]  
but it's just really interesting to me  
i am married to a wonderful man   you know who treats me very you know with a with as  
i think probably is as [enlightened] as anyone can be at this particular stage in their life time  
but when he gets angry it's always over control issues it's always over power issues it's never over you know it's always you said you were going to do something  
and you did not do it as if he is the boss  
and i am the you know and i am the slave  
and it  
those are the only only issues we ever fight about  
i think it's just i think it's just difficult for men to uh to accept women equally  
even if they want to they are more comfortable when somebody is the boss  
uh dictator [dictatorships] are real efficient  
um  
um  
um  
um  
huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it would be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
did you want me to go ahead  
okay  
well one thing  
i i guess both of us are very much aware of the equality  
uh it seems like women are uh just starting to really get some kind of equality not only in uh jobs but in the home where husbands are starting to help out a lot more than they ever did  
uh it's not uncommon to see men doing dishes making supper or taking care of the kids  
or uh  
the generation of my parents and my great grandmother which uh they did everything  
they went to work  
and they took care of the family  
so  
exactly  
exactly  
yeah  
yeah  
that's the way my husband is too  
i mean it it doesn't uh doesn't bother him at all to do the dishes  
it doesn't bother him at all to do the laundry verses uh men from way back  
there is that  
well if you did that you were [henpecked] or whatever  
but   men are starting  
yeah  
those are very few  
i think those men don't last very long in relationships because i think women know what they want  
right  
exactly  
and it's it's hard enough to be a woman out there trying to do everything uh you know and then kind of real light pay  
there's just no way that we can be happy trying to do it all  
so it's it's kind of a uh neat thing to see as far as equality in the households  
and i think that's even going to get better even you know   even more so  
i think it's just going to be where men will do as much cleaning as women do and that it won't be your job description instead of your role definition is this  
it will be uh  
hopefully for my daughter who i instill into it doesn't matter if you want to drive a truck honey  
or it doesn't matter if you want to be a nurse  
it doesn't matter if you want to be uh the president  
or it doesn't matter if you want to be a lawyer or a doctor  
it doesn't matter  
it's what you want to be  
so i have always [instilled] into her  
and i think mothers um are doing a really good job in raising their daughters to say hey you don't have to stay with nursing  
you don't have to be a secretary  
you don't have to be  
you can be whatever you want to be whether it be a [welder] or [trucker] or whatever   as long as you uh go to school for it and get the education  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
if they want to right  
uh_huh  
i do too  
you know there's a certain part of me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well emotionally i think uh   women do a little bit uh  
i i think that's the gap is coming closer as um what i've learned in uh just just being out there  
it seems that men are now starting to get into groups called men's [gatherings]  
and they get together  
and they talk about issues of marriage talk about manhood talk about what they didn't have with their fathers  
are expressing more emotions learning what emotions are  
it may be in the future that men you know some men may be better parent or mothers than mothers themselves  
um   i i know of some mothers that i i guess i'd rather be with the father because the father is maybe more understanding more um low key more apt to be a better father than some mothers that i have seen that have been raised you know to develop whatever skills that they have  
and some of the men are developing uh very good too  
so   it may come down to where it's it's individual basis where everybody is treated an as individual   and not by sex  
if you want to stay home and take care of the kids honey that's fine  
i will go out and make the uh take care of the uh money making  
and it it wouldn't matter if it's a woman or a man saying that  
on one income  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that  
kind of like what uh my husband and myself are doing right now  
my daughter's three even though at this current time she's ready to get involved with  
she's an only child  
i don't know   if you've only got one  
i'll let you go ahead and start yeah  
you know i think that's changed just in the last generation   just in the last little while because i know my father in law doesn't do that much   of that kind of stuff  
but my husband is wonderful  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there are still some that aren't cooperating  
but  
they're not accepting that anymore  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i feel like um to an extent that is really important   you know that that um it is important for women who need to work   uh or are in a position that they want to   that they can do that  
um but i also think it is important for them to be with the children  
i   i think there there are some things that women just are designed to do better than men  
and there are some things that men are designed to do better than women  
i don't think it should ever be totally equal  
you know that's not uh  
we're not made like that  
that's right  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
one of the frustrations that i have with the way things have developed is that and for some it's not a problem but there's more and more it's difficult for a family to make a living on one   income  
it can be done  
but you make sacrifices  
you know and and it's um  
yeah  
what what do you feel is the the major change that's been going on  
i think that has been the major change is that women feel they need to go out and do this  
they they no longer feel it's uh it's no big deal to to stay home and raise your family   any more  
i know it  
and i i think i think that's really sad because i think there's going to be a generation of kids that are going to grow up raised by somebody else  
you don't well  
i'm i'm still home with with my last one  
and i wouldn't trade change a minute of it for anything  
but i i can't i can't help but think that eventually the [pendulum's] going to swing back the other way again  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's  
yeah  
it it's sad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i think too many people feel they need to live a more extravagant life style than necessary  
uh you know to  
i i don't think you know the kids don't benefit from the bigger house and the fancier cars and and and this type of thing  
i think that they would from the you know attention or whatever  
uh but it  
i uh i i don't know  
i i see it as a major problem  
and i think it's going to have to swing back the other way because i think we're going to have an awful lot of kids who are going to have major problems from all this  
uh_huh  
what what grade do you teach  
six seven and eight  
i've got a uh  
where do you live  
are you out  
in richardson  
we're in plano here  
i have a daughter in middle school  
and uh i know there aren't very many  
she has a few friends that have moms who are still at home  
but do you see um you know do you ever do you ever see problems you know that you feel   you know that the kids are left alone too much  
and  
he stays at school  
and the school allows that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no mother to talk to  
well i've just  
do you do you feel it will swing back the other way  
or do you feel there's just going to be a big push to uh   you know for for more more and more day care type situations  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's a tough question  
we are now able to work full eight hours a day and still do our housework right  
don't ask me  
well   it has no credibility any more  
well i'm a school teacher  
and i'm in charge of raising them  
so i can appreciate it  
oh good for you  
good for you  
well you know it's interesting because when i heard the topic i was thinking uh  
this summer oprah had a t v show   about wives that refused to go to work and how their husbands thought they were terrible  
and one woman had four children  
and her husband said she wasn't pulling her own weight in the family  
that's frightening  
and it you know it was almost from the audience participation it was almost a social issue you know  
people were siding with the husband saying you've got to go to work if you have these four children you've got to support them  
and nobody would give her credit for being   home and raising them  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
well you know i as i said i teach school  
and gosh i'm trying to think  
i don't know  
i have one woman one mother that i know is home  
but she also has ten children  
six seven and eight  
in richardson  
oh okay  
oh yeah  
i've got one child um that stays with me every day until five because his mother doesn't come home until seven  
and he doesn't want to be home from three thirty until seven by himself  
uh_huh  
well he stays with me  
and i have a tendency to work late  
i work until six  
so he stays with me until five thirty and then goes home  
and you know i have lots of kids because they know i'm there late  
i'm a slow mover to say the least  
but um they'll come in and say can i stay with you because i don't want to go home to an empty house  
and that's frightening because you know the  
when i said i i'm i'm raising them i am  
because we're talking about boy friends  
and we're talking about what the girl said in class  
and you know what's right   because there's no mother at home  
and um it makes a difference  
i  
and just the social values  
i i don't know  
i i have a feeling we're going to go more and more  
i've got a twenty one year old female  
and i've got twenty two year old male child children  
and i listen to my daughter  
and she's going to work  
and she's going to buy her house  
and she's going to get her car  
and then she's going to have her children  
and then when you know they go on one salary will they be able to sustain what   their life style is  
and they're back to work  
and you know i agree with you  
i was raised in a generation we didn't need all those things  
and we lived without them  
we did fine  
hello  
hi  
my name's gail  
i'm calling from texas  
oh what a deal  
took long enough to find you  
yeah  
seems like they take forever any more  
but um so did you hear what the topic was  
did she tell you  
okay  
great  
well if you're ready then uh i'll just go ahead and start  
okay  
hold on  
okay  
well i guess we're supposed to talk about the changing roles of women  
seems like um to me everything is just changing so much that it's almost like um you can't keep up with things any more  
and everything is uh everyone's striving so much to make it equal between men and women  
i personally i'm a stay home mom  
and i like it the way it used to be  
are you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how many kids do you have  
two  
are they young  
or  
five and two  
i have two  
and mine are two and nine months  
so um being being home is real  
i i just am fortunate because i don't know a real lot of moms that get to stay home  
and uh i just it's just weird that i was just talking to somebody this morning who's who's a working uh lady a working mom  
and you know these people have secretaries and these high power jobs  
and it just seems like um  
she she told me now her daughter took her first steps at the day care  
and uh i just think i i i just don't agree with that  
i think it should be that people should get back to staying home and and being family more family oriented than than not  
you know it seems like everybody's always so busy with everything that they're doing that there's no time for this and that and the other  
and i hope it just doesn't get to where you know there's more women more and more women going into the work force  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i find that i whenever i have to whenever i'm in a group of people and we're discussing things  
like just over the weekend i visited my family and some cousins i hadn't seen in a long time  
and everyone's all interested in what everybody's doing  
and uh you know well i had my baby with me  
and i found that all i talked about was my baby   which was fine with me  
but it's like you know here these people are  
they're going to school getting degrees making all this money  
and you know they kind of looked at me like i was from the dark ages you know like i because i didn't have really all that much to talk about uh where career and things like that were concerned  
and you kind of feel little bit like an [outcast] for a while   in social situations sometimes  
which is too bad because you know i i feel like i don't obviously i don't get paid for my job  
but i should get paid at least double what my husband makes working in an office for staying home  
that's what i figure  
i'm worth a lot just for what i do every day  
but you know i don't know  
this is kind of a um  
at at least here i've noticed  
i'm not from here  
i'm from colorado  
but i've really noticed that there are a lot of uh a lot more people that are more comfortable at least with some women being home and at least in the circles i've travelled and in the church that i go to you know  
that  
men don't treat you like you don't know anything generally   speaking  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i can see where that would definitely [hinder] the problem  
definitely  
well  
hello  
hi  
i'm sandy  
i'm in texas too  
oh really  
yes  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
so am i  
you know i think it's kind of coming back around to that don't you  
i mean that there's a lot more people that stay home now than before  
but i guess more than anything i think maybe people were just kind of wanting to have the choice of what they could do you know  
i don't know  
i mean i think sometimes some of the the women's [lib] though is kind of like they wanted it all you know  
and you can't have everything  
i don't i don't think that you can have i mean there's no way i could have a career and then be the kind of mom that i want to be  
and to me that's more important  
two  
uh_huh  
five and two  
well i agree  
i mean but i i hate for them to make people feel bad that have to work too saying you know you should stay home you know otherwise your children aren't going to you know turn out or whatever   because that's not fair to you know like the single moms that have to work  
or if they wouldn't be able to make ends meet   not working or whatever  
i mean i think it's got to be a personal choice  
and it's nice that that we could have the choice to stay home  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well and i think a lot of companies are realizing this and offering more opportunities as far as like job sharing or you know even having a day care on site and that kind of stuff  
and i think that's really important   that that they do that  
and they realize there's a need for that  
and um i don't know  
i found when i did do some work when my son was young it was like contract work  
and it wasn't where i had to be there every day  
but i mean we were going to the doctor once a week  
so i don't know how you could have a full time job and ever have any vacation time to do anything besides go to the doctor  
okay  
do you work  
i think that's the main change  
what do you think  
right  
that's right  
well i've worked all the time up until just about a year ago  
and i just  
physically i wasn't able to  
and i mean i love my job  
but i have four children  
and that's real hard  
you have children  
i assume so  
right  
right  
right  
oh  
right  
oh  
it's real hard  
it's real hard  
i mean even i  
yeah  
it was so hard for me to work full time  
of course my kids are are a little older  
but then you then you give up the money  
you know  
yeah  
yep  
fine  
yep  
i know  
yeah  
well i've decided now in fact i'm just i'm substitute teachers aid which is a [afar] cry from my travel agent career   which i loved  
but i'm i'm there in the same school as my children my two littler ones  
and i'm home when they are home  
in fact i've had an offer to just work the christmas season at a local jewelry store  
and i'm just really [hesitating]   because i've i enjoyed my the first summer home ever   so like seventeen years with my kids  
i mean well i didn't have babies or day care or working as a travel agent  
and it was wonderful  
my kids and i we just had a ball  
of course their their ages they are almost seventeen   well sixteen fourteen eleven and nine  
and we are just running every direction  
and  
it is  
it is  
always worked  
what yeah  
right  
right  
i think that you know it's good  
you know sometimes i'll have the cookies ready when they   come home  
and and a lot of my boys uh my older boys' junior high friends will come over  
in fact everyday   i've got boys hanging around  
and it's wonderful  
i'm real close to the schools  
and you know we are just  
i i'm very happy to be staying home  
but again i miss   the  
i don't  
i keep on working  
right  
that we are because it's so expensive  
if we want uh extra clothes the extra car the extra  
the thing is when a woman does work then there is the clothes to buy  
and then there is the gas  
and then there is the lunches and then the day care  
you must pay for  
day care  
yeah  
oh   my gosh  
yeah  
for two  
it's almost hardly worth it for you   to work until they get in school  
then you work summers unless you are a teacher  
are you a teacher  
uh_huh  
no  
it's not the same  
i i don't see things changing really  
and and it's terrible for divorced women   you know who are forced to work who maybe don't have a college education  
thank goodness i have mine  
and i could get a real good paying job   if i wanted to you know in fact i still have offers you know please come back  
and we'll pay you this  
yeah  
yeah  
and it's been a real tough decision  
but i'm very happy to be here with my kids  
my kids we've seen a remarkable difference in   now that i'm home  
yeah  
i'm real  
and i'm  
but i've been doing a lot of volunteering at the schools and playing lots of tennis  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
right  
yeah  
well  
oh that would be great  
right  
i think the the other thing that that has changed for woman because we are working is we are having less children  
yes  
i do  
well i think that's a big part of it  
and i i think it maybe started because women wanted outside of the home  
and   i almost think with our society and and inflation and the cost of things it's anymore it's almost couples have to work outside the home  
but but yeah i think that's a big change  
i'd like to not work  
what about you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have two  
and that's been a big deciding factor because i mean i never wanted to be a career woman  
but as long as i you know was going to work i was going to do as as much as i could   as well as i could et cetera  
and i i wanted to stay home when i had kids  
well i have two  
i have a four year old and a three year old  
and we would like two more  
but i  
it's like we talked uh i don't want two more unless i can quit and stay home and take care   of them which is   something right now financially it takes both people to work  
yeah  
it's full time work  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you do there's  
of course you know everything you give up something  
but i just  
i  
the kids are so wonderful  
but i do think that's one of the major changes you know  
my mama i remember her being home   uh   you know she made breakfast in the morning for us  
and if she worked it was part time  
and it was work that was done while we were maybe at school  
and she was there when we got home  
you know and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
see  
and i think  
oh  
oh  
but see it's such an important time to be home   you know  
and that   was important to me enough  
you know my husband was raised uh  
his his parents were divorced when he was young so his mom always worked  
and he's like well you know what's the big deal about being home   for your kids  
well as our kids are getting older you know he sees it more  
i said [russ] you don't understand what it was like to have her home or to if you needed   mom at school you know she was there to help  
or   she was there to take you  
and and i want to be able to do those things  
so  
yeah  
i think that's wonderful  
so where do you see   us changing in the future  
well see that was one of the things the the question i think is   you know what changes do we see  
and i'm i'm not sure i i see it go anywhere  
i think they are still going to have to work  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the day care eats   me alive  
you know i pay four hundred fifty to five hundred fifty   a month   for two kids  
they would eat you   alive  
i know  
no  
i'm not  
and i would love  
you you you talked about having the summers off  
and i thought oh that would be so wonderful  
and i love the little preschool they are in  
it's wonderful  
you know so i feel good about them being there  
but it's still not the same  
it's just not  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
please come back to work  
sure  
that's wonderful  
that's wonderful  
i like that  
well we're working on it  
i'm hoping in about three to five years i'll be able to stay home  
and my kids of course will be in school then  
but i'll   be there mornings i'll be there [noons]   i'll be there afternoons and all  
i feel like   that's good  
and i can work part days in my husband's business you know so that   he can afford for us to do that you know  
okay  
would you uh like to begin or would you like me to start  
okay  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
i agree  
right  
right  
i agree with that  
i i think you do see more and more women out there in politics too as mayors   or uh you know in in helping to maybe uh get some legislation passed to to have women have more rights  
i think still even with that whole um thing with judge thomas and and uh you you still felt like the woman was the one that you would maybe [discredit] first before the man  
or something the way they had the trial  
and   uh i just think that it's it's still going to take another generation or so before before the women really could really feel that they're really equal in the business world and that they work just as hard or harder  
uh but it's still uh  
going from from homemakers into uh corporate leaders is still a big step  
right  
yes  
i think it's true  
i think also people are having children at a older age  
so it's maybe like uh you know  
you go through college  
and then you maybe work for a few years  
and then you have your first child  
and uh you know you you know both sides of the coin  
you know what it's like and how much work it takes to keep the house running smoothly and to take care of the kids  
and and then uh maybe people that are just working and think oh you just stay at home  
but then when they're in their thirties and have their first and second kid it's like they lose it  
they say wow  
this is harder than i thought  
well you know  
i know it  
i know  
uh_huh  
are so involved  
yes  
right  
right  
their role has to change   to kind of accommodate us too  
i know  
i have three children  
and my oldest is eleven  
and i've pretty much been home uh since brian was born  
and uh just recently i went back to work uh last school semester to tutor uh high school age students with learning disabilities  
and i was just out of the house two days a week  
but i thought wow this is really hard  
only  
and it was only two days  
and i was home before three  
but getting the baby to day care getting the kids off to school i still did everything i always do you know  
my husband still got up and went to work  
but uh it it  
only those two  
it made a big difference  
i thought wow full time  
i don't think i could swing that personally  
oh  
oh boy  
pick up   dinner  
right  
i bet  
i bet  
well i i know a lot of people  
i know i had my first child when i was twenty five  
and that's not considered really young these days  
that's almost you know  
but uh i have friends that that have kids just starting kindergarten  
and they're they're forty years old  
and and then like maybe a two year old at home  
and i think boy i i'm i'm in my  
uh-oh i can start  
i i think one of the the biggest uh improvements in women is that finally you're starting to see them get into uh management  
and you're seeing them uh get uh elected to uh political offices   uh not near enough  
i know there's still a long way to go especially in top management  
you're not seeing you know  
looking at t i you see them in management but you're not seeing them up there as v p  
and i have a sister that's an attorney in oklahoma city  
and i know the company that she was with uh  
the women didn't have near the positions the levels that the men attorneys had   and were not uh given the same respect  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
i also think that uh uh women as homemakers are beginning to get more respect than they used to be  
used to be people would say do you work and you'd say no i work in the home  
and  
it was it was then it was almost like a put down particularly particularly even by women in the work force  
but i think now i think people are realizing that the roles women play in the home are very very important  
and it's getting the respect and which is about time  
yes  
very definitely  
that's right  
right  
yes  
and and to those that have never worked and had you know and have stayed home with the kids kind of does your heart good  
because i know i stayed home with mine and didn't start working until mine were in high school  
and uh so you know it it kind of does me good  
i think also one of the things that that's really tremendous and it doesn't necessarily have to do with women but the fact that the fathers are   so involved with families  
which again i think it helps a woman's role  
you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i had to  
course i work full time  
but my daughter and her husband were out of town  
so i had my grandchildren for   four days during uh football soccer season  
and so i would work  
and her  
some friends would take care of the kids  
but i would have to get them picked up from there   get them fed get them to practices   get homework done get baths  
i was absolutely exhausted  
and and these women that are waiting until they're in their late thirties or early forties to have their first children i think are absolutely crazy  
uh_huh  
we're set  
what changes do you feel have happened  
right  
increases each year doesn't it  
it increases each year i think  
well and i think women have kind of had uh in the past the real [subservient]   role  
and uh  
well we do to some degree  
but uh uh i think it's not as much as it was  
i   and especially i think with women increasingly working they're going to have to demand more from men  
because there is just impossible to keep up on everything else  
have more of an active role in taking care of children more of an active role in taking care of the home  
right  
well you know there is a lot of companies that won't give women maternity leave for that very reason  
uh in fact i know the school districts down here you they don't have maternity leave  
uh   you simply have to take accumulate your sick leave   and take your sick leave  
and i don't know uh if bigger company companies do  
but when i was employed with the school district i didn't have maternity leave either  
and that was the reason  
because they thought was showing [prejisim] to women and not to men  
but   so uh  
yeah  
it is  
you have to save all of your uh vacation time  
you do  
you have to save all your vacation time  
and   that's usually how it's uh happened  
but uh  
what do you see uh changing in the future  
right  
and and   top level  
maybe top level  
that would be kind of nice  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
i think that's probably good  
a little more [integration]  
and uh maybe not so much that we sit on the back burners  
and  
i think  
right  
right  
no  
i don't either  
i don't think they're ever going to prove that men and women are equal  
we just function differently  
and uh i'm not capable of lifting what uh a man can lift and   you know that type of that type of thing  
but uh   one of the big changes uh they're doing in salt lake is uh  
and they're probably  
i'm sure in dallas since you're big places a lot more women are uh working right out of their home with their p c's or with their lap computers or whatever  
i think that  
right  
right  
you only have to check in with the office once or twice a week  
and  
course they're talking about uh that we're going to be able to do our grocery shopping and   banking and   everything like that  
so uh it would be kind of exciting in some ways to to see a little bit more of that  
and some ways it might be kind of scary  
think anybody could do it  
but   anyway  
right  
right  
but then you know there is the process of selection  
would you have to give them   the brand  
and uh   you know when you shop you usually compare the prices  
and would be nice though  
okay  
oh i guess the first thing has been the uh for the right for women to vote  
i think that has been a major change and also the fact that uh there are so many more women in the work force nowadays than there were  
and that's probably going to increase   you know  
i'm sorry  
it sure does  
yeah  
there is a lot more women in the work place nowadays  
role  
right  
that's changing  
right  
right  
yeah  
i i agree  
it definitely   has changed  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know they've been talking about  
and i don't know uh what the status is on it  
but you know women get maternity leave and stuff like that  
and i know that they've there has been discussion about men also getting maternity leave   to help out  
but you know i haven't really heard much about that recently  
uh_huh  
oh is that right  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh that's interesting  
that's a bummer though  
i mean   you got to take the time off  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think that we're probably going to see a lot more companies uh run by females  
and we'll  
i'm sorry  
right  
right  
upper management  
more women in upper management  
and probably uh we'll see more females in political roles  
more governors and i think you know roles like that  
well we've got in texas we have a female governor  
and we had a female mayor here in dallas  
and she just her term just ended  
and uh so i think we're probably going to see more of that   in the future  
uh_huh  
right you know  
i mean and that's fine with me  
but sometimes  
i mean i'm not a women's libber by any means  
but   i do  
there are issues that you know as far as like equal pay for men and women and that kind of stuff i totally am for  
but i don't get into the uh the real   women libber movement you know  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i i've heard of that  
uh i haven't really talked to anybody that's you know too involved with that  
but i mean i think that is a  
like the cottage industry  
is is that what you're talking about women working out of their homes  
yeah  
uh i think it's wonderful  
yeah  
oh i  
by the phone and all that  
right  
right  
yeah  
i wouldn't mind just calling up the grocery store and giving them my order and   going an hour later and picking it up  
right  
right  
well nancy what do you think um some of the changes in roles of women are in american society in the past generation or two  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i agree  
i also think that there are more um  
the people are  
women stay single longer it seems like  
yeah  
i know my mother and her sister were both married by the time they were twenty  
and i waited until i was thirty two  
so  
you know um i know that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
seems like there's  
uh_huh  
go ahead  
uh it just seems like there are more single mothers too  
i mean that's  
there're   a lot of either divorced or um you know never been married  
so  
yeah  
i agree  
well what do you think have been the most significant changes in the past generation or so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and it really it's affecting the families   you know for mothers not not to be home and yet you know um  
i mean i i don't blame anybody when they have to work   because um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well what do you think's going to happen in the next generation  
you think it'll continue  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it is  
i think some  
i don't know how many you know what percentage but some are will move back toward more traditional lifestyle of staying home with the children  
i guess i see that happening already  
some choosing it  
and and they get you know  
there're  
people [chide] them for it you know  
why aren't you out  
well of course working  
that's definitely got to be the biggest thing is that everybody's out there working   including me  
well what do you think it is  
yeah  
yes they do  
yeah  
they do  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
it's a big change  
i'm an o b nurse  
and so i really do see what you're saying there  
it used to be that our list ran nineteen twenty twenty one for our [patients'] ages  
and now our care plans look more like thirty two thirty three  
and if we get somebody twenty one we go oh look how young  
so yeah  
you're right there's a big change  
and we have a lot of first time moms in their late thirties and even forties  
so it's true  
but again i guess it probably does go back to the same thing of women having careers  
if they didn't have  
if they weren't out there working and having their careers   they probably would be married and having their children  
so  
i guess it's a combination  
no  
go on  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there's a lot of mixed up families that's for sure  
well just that  
i think the families  
the the role in the family  
and the mother doesn't stay home and cook the dinner   take care of the children um  
we do it all  
i really think that  
and i know that there's a lot more participation by the fathers  
but i still think the mothers have the major role  
i really do  
i think they're just they're not doing very much less  
i don't think as far as the kids and and the house and everything   are concerned not from what i see  
and and they're contributing to the income besides  
i think that we're really really putting a lot of stress on ourselves  
oh it is   yeah  
yeah  
it's it's difficult  
and i think that  
i live in plano actually  
so  
it's a very wealthy town  
and we're not part of that  
but it is you know  
and i think what i see a lot of parents a lot of mothers working just for bigger and better  
and i really hate that   you know  
i hate to see that  
and i i've been here for a very long time  
but um i don't know  
now i'm a single parent  
and i don't have a choice any more  
but i used to just work occasionally for extra money  
but now i have to work all the time  
and that's really hard  
and and i don't know how a mother does just choose to go out to work and and leave the kids  
in a way it's good it's very good to get out with adults  
and i think that's a good thing if you can do it   part time  
but to just go out there forty hours a week at least and   and work and and leave your kids to get home from school alone and that kind of thing i think that's not very smart  
i think that's   difficult on them  
so  
well it's going to be interesting  
yeah  
i think it will change  
but i'm not sure how it's going to because you see young people today and wonder how in the world they'll ever afford to buy a home and   and to raise a family  
i don't know how they're going to do it  
and so i don't know how it can change to where the mother can get back into the home again  
i don't that ever will go backwards  
but i don't know what effect it's going to have on these kids now when they grow up how they're going to feel about it  
it you know it could lead to another woodstock type thing you know where   where there's just too much material things  
and and maybe these kids will really resent that their parents are out there working for things  
and   they might want to do without things rather than do that to their families  
it's hard to say  
uh_huh  
okay  
you probably uh more up on this subject than i am  
but the roles that   women have played in the last couple of year in our or couple of generations  
you bet  
you bet  
you know where i've noticed it more i think is  
i'm a traveling salesperson  
and i have traveled most of my life  
and i know just especially in the last oh ten years and really since  
in the last half of dozen years i see more and more women traveling  
you know as far as [boarding] planes and driving cars and calling on customers  
i sell sporting goods  
and even in our industry uh there was virtually really and truly no women as far as selling the type of things i sell  
and even in the last five or six years boy we see more and more women being involved  
and you know it's a it's a credit to them as far as how they're doing things  
you bet  
you bet  
that's sort of neat  
sure  
i think uh it's the age old thing  
every once in a while you read in the newspaper or you'll see it on t v or something where the discussion comes out that you know women are paid less than men  
and they're and they're doing the same uh or carrying the same job responsibility  
and you know i that's a very true statement  
and it shouldn't uh it shouldn't be that way   you know  
i think so hope so  

absolutely  
you know i've  
right  
yeah  
they forget  
also i think uh a good argument for that is in the area of politics you know  
if a  
a woman congressman i'm sure makes as much as a man congressman as and the same as a senator or whatever  
so they certainly uh they certainly deserve it all the way  
but i guess just the most significant thing changed for me again as i mentioned was just in traveling  
you see uh more and more ladies of all ages with [briefcases] and uh and in their business suits and   and going  
and i expect you're right in regards to having two parents now  
that's a good a good statement  
and i think if  
in the future it's even going to be uh more noticeable and more significant  
wow  
you bet  
good point  
right now i'm self employed  
and and my wife's always worked  
she's a schoolteacher  
but for  
she started working  
and then when i first started my business uh  
she was selling real estate at the time  
and hers was the only income we had for three or four months  
so  
you know she certainly did her part in help getting me establishing in my business  
and she still works everyday  
so  
you bet  
uh-oh  
enjoying it  
what kind of work do you do  
well good  
right  
married  
yeah  
well trying to think what else i can say in regards to this subject  
you see the old uh cigarette ads you know about you've come a long way  
baby  
right  
and uh  
you think about this when you come to when it comes to a subject like that  
and it's really true  
women have come a long way  
and you know  
that  
right  
well they've entered the work force more uh you know since world war two is when they started  
and uh i think that that is you know very significant that the percentage of the work force today consists of such a high percent of women  
right  
yeah  
the  
you see more of that you see more of them uh leaving their children in the care of their husbands while they do travel too  
you know i i go to a i have a club that i belong to on tuesday that  
you know one of the girls travels quite extensively  
and she says well my children have two parents  
you know why not  
so that that's a i think that's a change  
and i think that's a change you're going to be seeing more of in the in the future people having that kind of attitude that the father's going to take more active role in child rearing  
right  
no  
that that i think should change will change in the near future also  
it's been changing  
it's been [evolving]  
but there's still a an an [inequality] in the   work forces or jobs  
it's you know  
and you hear some people say you know  
well he's a man  
he he he needs that salary  
right  
and going  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i i think it will be  
i think i well  
another thing i read too the other day  
this is not just for working women  
but how much they're out there i guess is  
the car [designers] uh are starting to design cars with women in mind uh because in the past the male bought the cars  
but now they're showing that fifty five percent of women are actually making the new car purchases   and that they are looking for uh different things in the car  
the man is looking for the in the engine  
and the woman is looking to how easy can she slide in under the steering wheel   uh can her makeup come off the [upholstery]  
and if they're out there buying that many cars then there's that many out that are self sufficient and you know mobile and working  
right  
yeah  
we all do  
i just happen to be off today  
i work too  
i'm a nurse  
and i work at medical treatment center uh which is at uh [jupiter] and arapaho  
no  
i don't know  
i'm kind of out of out of things  
you've come a long way baby  
right  
alright allen  
uh the questions is concerning the changes in the roles of american women in the past several generations and you know in their the society we live in  
what do you think has occurred there  
uh_huh  
but are are they being given the full honor for the work they are doing and for the uh-oh my gosh i can't think of the word but for the what they have to accept that's they are responsible for  
uh responsibilities is what i am trying to say  
uh_huh  
by the same token most in most cases women have the jobs with the same responsibility of men who have been there before but at lower salaries  
is that right and wrong  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well what changes do you think are most significant over the past few years  
any individual thing  
or is it just a general switch over  
uh_huh  
i have a feeling that business with the woman working out at the same level of responsibility as their husband sort of tears into their social or their loving relationship   in that uh the the lady needs to stand up for what she has made and her own rights and has a right to do so  
and this upsets the man because we have always been built to think that we were sort of head of the household  
so do you think that is going to be uh difficult saying as far as marriages and people enjoying each other   in the future years  
uh_huh  
well do you have any opinion of potential changes that may occur in the next generation   specifically  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
well i actually  
a lot of women are being hired now instead of men because they can get brought in at lower salaries because that's what everybody else assumes they are going to get  
and the people  
well how do you feel about women in uh armed services  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
i somehow can't do that  
i   was brought up in the ages where the ladies were kept home safe secure and made happy  
and the men went out and took responsibility of earning the money bringing in whatever they needed and protected the household  
and it it really still bothers me  
i spent plenty of years in the service  
but it still bothers me to see ladies out in combat or actually out in places where there is two or three of them there and five hundred men around  
i mean how are they going to protect themselves so to speak  
it puts them in a very bad situation  
i i really don't go for that  
uh_huh  
yep  
well that's not fair because i can tell you one thing stay home sometime and start doing some of those jobs that she's been handling  
and you're going to learn there is a lot of responsibility just keeping the home going  
yeah  
yeah  
and if they go into the work force they should be treated as nicely   as as well as a man or any other person  
and uh not  
well i think one of the major changes is the whole attitude towards women in the work place and the role of women in doing jobs outside of the home  
that's probably one of the major changes i see over the last period of time  
oh i don't think so  
i think it has come a long ways in terms of giving them equal opportunities  
but i still think in lots of job markets they are not treated as equals  
in other words in some respects the other direction in some job markets they don't really want to be treated as equals  
yes  
i think that's   generally speaking pretty true  
and i think that's what we really ought to look at that going is if they are going to do equal work they ought to get equal pay  
and that uh they ought to have equal opportunities to advance to those positions  
and i don't think that we have gotten there yet  
oh boy  
i think it's generally that switch over  
and and i think that switch over has been more in the work force  
i don't think that women are treated as equals in the home as much as they are in the work force  
i think those women who are out working are probably still expected to carry more responsibility at home   that the husband is having them on the other side of that coin picked up as much responsibility at home  
so they have one and three quarters jobs now whereas the husbands have one and a quarter  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
i think also in terms of parenting  
i think there is going to be some increasing problem because i think women are expecting husbands to do more parenting  
and i am not sure they are becoming more skilled at it  
so i think it really has put some additional stresses on the family units  
well i i think one of the things that always happens is i think is when the one end you know were moving out to the end where a lot of women will be at work  
and then i think we are starting to see now some tendency of women at mid thirties  
and so the opinion of this career thing isn't all that it is cracked up to be  
and i want to go back and do something else  
i think we will probably see the pendulum in terms of the work force swing back a little bit  
also much of it is driven by economics right now  
people have gotten out and gotten use to incomes coming in  
yeah  
well i think they ought to have the right  
i have some problems with my own family thinking about my wife going to or my wife and my daughter going into combat  
but i have problems with men doing that  
and i guess if they want to they ought to have the right to do it  
it's nothing i would be greatly enthusiastic about pushing for it  
i agree  
i think one of the other things that concern has concerned me a little bit  
and i think i see some change in attitudes there  
my wife happens to be a wife who has chosen to stay at home  
and there's uh has been a tendency over the past few years to treat her as though she was somebody who didn't have much intelligence   because if she did she would be out in the work force uh fulfilling herself  
and i hope we reach the point where whatever women chose to do that's acceptable  
if they chose to go into the work force that's okay  
if they chose not to that's acceptable  
as equals  
okay  
uh do you want to go ahead  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i do too  
i like the idea  
i see a lot more uh  
my children i have five children  
and they're all married  
and uh i love seeing the men help the women so much  
and they both cooperate together on  
i think it's great  
right  
that's right  
that's right  
i've always taught my men that  
they better clean up with their women and help them  
if they did that you know  
and they're they're good about it  
but it is neat to see them all work together  
and   a big thing that i see all that most of the most of the women getting married now uh go back have gone back to you know  
they they stay at work or go back to work or whatever  
and they're well educated  
and i believe we'll see a lot more c e o in companies  
they're having a fit about how little there are  
and i think we'll see a lot more don't you of upper management   then we do now even  
i think it'll [escalate]  
and uh and i think black women now  
in fact i work at a high school  
and my boss is a black woman and has only been there a couple of months and already promoted  
and she's very sharp  
and i think that  
and the ethnic thing will be you know is a good thing now  
they're moving them up  
and they're sharp  
and they  
so you're going to see a lot a lot more of that in leadership i believe  
uh_huh   right  
right  
that's a shame  
yes  
yeah  
but they wouldn't know what they're doing  
but i'm not big on [subserving] as far as   to the men at all  
but i never have gone along with that you know even far back  
but i was brought up pretty good in a home that  
years ago my mother was that way  
the same  
i  
my  
you know  
some people say oh the boys shouldn't have to do those jobs the inside jobs  
but we never were taught  
they had to do as much as we did  
so that was good  
so that's i think that's good to keep the equal as far as as uh not uh necessarily by sex type thing   you know  
you should be able to accomplish as much  
and i think the uh attitude is a lot better towards the parents raising the younger ones now  
you see a lot more of the mothers and all saying to the young girls you know   you can do it  
if he   can do it you can do it type thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
what about politics on it  
do you think the political scene  
yeah  
i'm real i'm kind of disgusted this year because i don't see many women into the political scene  
and i really think we should have more   political leaders in the women than we do up for and even for president and vice president this year  
there's nobody again  
i think they're all scared out after after uh  
oh what was the [lady's] name that ran a couple of  

i forget her name now  
but you know who i mean  
yeah  
she took such a rough go of it  
and they their tax deal and  
right  
right  
but i wish they would get some more on that  
i really was disappointed this year when i see any of the candidates talking that they're talking about  
uh they i didn't see any of the women in there  
and that [disappoints] me  
and right now i don't think we have too many uh in the [forefront]  
[schroeder's] about the biggest one in washington  
congress woman  
and uh other uh  
we really  
oh sure  
uh well i uh went to school at madison for two years  
and they are really big on women's rights   and and equal treatment  
and so i i've seen a lot of like rallies and things like that  
but uh i'm not that [liberated]  
i mean my mom is kind of old fashioned you know  
so i you know you pick up some [traits] from her and stuff  
but uh i think it's i think it's interesting and better for women to see that there's more more of them doing men's fields  
i like to see that  
and   i don't like to see women you know like waiting on men hand and foot  
but you know i i believe in like sharing and doing things for each other  
uh_huh  
right  
oh me too  
i hope that happens to me someday  
i mean i i don't mind   doing stuff  
uh i have a boyfriend  
and i got to make him dinner and stuff  
but you know i he'll help me do the dishes  
i don't want to you know   expect to help to clean up then after  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh me too  
yeah  
i like to see that  
i think it's uh really neat to see and all that educated minority uh person   who really knows what they're talking about  
and   it's just too bad that some people you know still look down on them just because of their color you know  
especially black women  
so  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
same here  
yeah  
right  
same here  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
i i see more men uh like participating in like the family things with children   like you know helping to take care of them more and   and uh uh doing the jobs equally you know  
oh  
i'm not that big on politics  
i'm not   that educated on it  
i'm  
oh yeah  
i agree with that  
oh i don't know  
yeah  
i know who you're talking about  
yeah  
at least she was strong to like try it and you know  
so that's good  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
well i think the biggest change in like the last fifty years has been the increased number of women who work now
i think overall there's been a change
i don't think um that's uh been [surpassed] by anything else than uh that because most women seem to be taking into careers and working now and changing the way the family situation is because they're now working and we have to have people to baby sit
and such
employed outside the home now
more visible things
and things that use different kinds of mental skills
maybe that's a a change because sometimes taking care of a house depending on uh you know how big the house is
and whether you had you know a lot of children may not take as much mental skills and such as what working outside the home does
uh i think a lot of the modern conveniences today you know have eliminated matter of fact you know i think women even back maybe two hundred years ago when we were first starting the country may have been looked at a little differently because it was really important to have the woman there
and she probably you know gave half of the uh work output in like a farm
you know her skills were as needed as the man's to you know to like establish a farm from the beginning
and then it got to be that you know with the industrial age
i think the women uh were the ones staying at home and not as involved in like a big operation as a farm and their the work was more confined to the household chores which didn't really uh have as much to do with the whole livelihood of the family
if you were in a farm situation
it's kind of kind of kind of gone all the way around that way in the beginning you know their work input for a farm
and even like putting in the crops and [harvesting] and such was as important as the man's you know needed both and then she got to be kind of in the house when that wasn't needed as much
and now she's kind of like back out of the house
but not working for the family business working you know somewhere else
yeah
well some are kind of forced to
but i did see something in the paper today i didn't read it through thoroughly
but there was uh article about a a project a study that [elizabeth] [dole] had started when she was still at the department of labor something called glass ceiling it was trying to look at how uh much opportunity there is for women executives to move up
they're still saying that there are too many women in higher uh [echelons] as management you know c e o's and that kind of thing
no
there's not many
they're saying that there's kind of like a glass ceiling that uh you just don't find too many women in those positions i think it will just kind of take time
um you know for women to be more you know accepted into those kinds of areas and to have [progressed] education and experience wise i mean starting with women working a lot in the work force in the last twenty years
it takes awhile for somebody to really gain enough skills to be a c e o
and i'm a little frustrated too because a lot of women who have their own businesses still don't seem to have gotten away from what we might kind of consider a more woman kind of business
i call it like the three c like they're into cookies like mrs fields
and they're into [cosmetics] like mary kay
and they're into uh clothing
you know
but they haven't really [branched] out into some other things like you don't find too many women uh really involved with technology
why
why
how about a computer designed by a woman
oh oh okay
but historically historically you think of cars being done by ford and such
so you don't want to think about a car now designed by a woman huh
well there's possibility that there's some woman on those design teams
hey there's some men [designers] out there that do very well
bob [macky] and such
oh oh oh
okay
all right
bye
i think it's come along very slowly i think that uh a lot of the stresses that you talk about have have taken a long time to become recognized but more strides are made toward addressing those stresses in women than ever were in men and i think that you know women have had stress you know for the last two hundred years
but it's been a different kind of stress different kinds of situations
because just being in the work place is different from being at home
but at home
you still have work to do you still have things to take care of
but you don't have the responsibilities
and the pressures that you have in the work place
so a lot of women have a little bit of trouble adjusting to that
but i feel like the in the last couple of decades the the roles have almost come full circle
because you know early on people were wanting to we were wanting to stay home with the kids and then they got into everybody has to have a career and it seems to be going back to a lot of women wanting to stay home with their kids although i don't think it'll ever go back to the way it used to be there will still be many many women who seek careers uh before they seek family
both
i think it's it's a matter of both um economics has a lot to do with it
unfortunately
but uh i think a lot of choice has gone into it lately
and and most of them or a lot of women i know would rather um if they have children
they would rather stay home with them
if they if they possible can
uh_huh
yeah
your neighbors
that's true
yeah
right
there's no one for her to go talk to
and there's also no one to to kind of come in and take over for her and allow her some time to herself for even a day you know because there's fewer and fewer people left or women left at home to do that
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
um
yeah
right
right
yeah
i agree with that
i it it's something that um you know i guess science will eventually have all the answers to everything
i don't know
but it seems like it it would really be
it's it's really difficult to put two a male and a female in the same role in the same circumstances and have them react to have them and their bodies react to the same situation in similar ways i think you know even between same sexes in a different in the same role there would there would be differences in the way one guy handled something over the way another guy would handle it
so i think when you put a male and a female in in in comparison you know it would be uh completely different
i mean just just totally different
and it you know goes a lot of it goes back to the way you were raised as children you know the males are raised to believe this
and be this way
and the females are raised to believe something else
and be this way
and uh when when you're raised that way you kind of [perpetuate] that
oh those ideals that other people uh force upon you
and so you don't you're not able to
well i guess you are able to if you want to change them
but you stay in those roles for so long that it's it's hard to to adjust and it would take a a really long time for i think science to figure out you know what affects women how and how the same thing affects men
i think i just don't think it's any kind of study they can do in any even twenty or thirty year period of time you know
that's right
it would
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
to pick up the slack yeah
that's right
yeah
yeah
you have to it has to balance out and i guess that's when you get into relationships and people people are attracted to people who [compliment] them most often
i mean they say [opposites] attract and i'm not too sure i believe that very much
but uh i think that people when they get into relationships you know if there's somebody who like if you got two people who hate to cook they're going to eat out all the time
and you know that's not that big a deal
but you know if you get somebody who likes to cook
and someone who doesn't like to cook then the person who doesn't who doesn't like to cook probably likes to do something else you know
so i think that people end up i think that that women are more diverse now than they ever were as far as what they have learned and what they're capable of
and and uh what they're willing to do
and so i feel like you know that men have gotten to be that way too
they've gotten a little bit more relaxed in their thinking about uh women and you know what they expect of them
so i think that you know it's a slow evolution but i think it's it's it's a good process
i think it's it's working you know there are still people who men who believe that women should be home you know all day
and cooking dinner
my husband's in the kitchen cooking dinner saying right on
yeah
well i i have noticed a lot uh more women's roles at work which i like in management which that's good
i i guess to have a woman's viewpoints and uh in a way things are handled at work
especially in personnel type jobs which i think is probably better on the hand of women for uh any kind of maternity benefits and stuff like that women probably understand that better than the men do
so i think that's good
yeah
so i think that that's a good benefit i think having women uh in in higher up positions stuff like that
uh_huh
yeah
right
and how to treat them
right
right
and who wants to be treated which way
yeah
right
i thought that was really interesting in the war
i figure
right
they couldn't do anything about it
right
right
that's exactly right
they can just watch it
i think it's uh i think if they want to do it you know if that's what interests them
and they think you know they can handle it
i think they ought to be able to do it
that's right you know
right
that's exactly right now they're trained and everything
so let them do it if they want to
that's what that's the way it is in a lot of jobs you know like the firemen you know for a long time they thought stuff like that you know trying to be firemen policemen and stuff like that
and now if they get to be all that
right
and i feel the exact same way
that's right
right
you're uh you know it's the best person qualified i think
and and that's the way it ought to be
but it's as we know it's not
right
exactly
same with a doctor in a hospital
that's right
she got that scholarship
right
that's true
that's true with any case i hate that
but but that is true
but
right
it's yeah
any ethnic problem or race
uh_huh
don't want to hurt anybody's feelings
and get everybody covered
uh_huh
uh_huh
and now everything's his you know uh his and her and you have to you always have to say it like that you can never say you know his you know and that never has offended me when you know when someone's talking
and they say you know his job or something like that
or
that's never
i mean i understand that they're talking about the job not the person in the job
that's that's always that's always been strange
i thought but some women like to fight it
but
yeah
she she uh i i don't know
i i can't say that that i well i can't say that i did or didn't vote for her because i didn't get to vote this time
but i don't know that i'm i guess i'm ready just hard to see a woman in such a i guess powerful position
right
right
right
that's true
and
right [inexperience] also
that's something that bothers me is uh you know she is you know the treasurer forever it bothers me that i don't know that she doesn't have that much background
i guess in
well it's hard to say i don't know something about it
just just kind of bothers me
yeah
she
i mean she seems on the outside uh good and everything
but but i don't know
it just it just kind of bothers me
and that that just may be because we're not used to having i'm not used to having women in in roles like that you know as role models you're just always used to men
i mean that's just something that men always did
right
that's exactly right
and probably yeah
and in dallas you know we had the uh [annette] strauss
and she's a uh first woman mayor
so
do they
i didn't know that
oh does she really
oh lord
big combination of both
she's got
covered all the bases didn't she
yeah
right
that's really good
i guess
right
yeah
yeah
they they they say a lot of times that you know woman have more emotions
and they can or cannot handle a job because of that
so that side would be interesting to see how that kind of stuff does play into it because a lot of times you know you do look at the men and they never seem to show any emotion they just
yeah
exactly
and that's that's sad to say that that that that's true
though
uh_huh
right
right
i am surprised though that we do have so many that are in politics down here
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's right
that was a good that was a good leadership that women
that's what they say that's true
it's true
well i hope you know that they whatever these leaders of ours do that
everything's for the good that just like like you said it's with man or a woman it however they're going to be able to take care of us
and i don't know
yeah
i do know though in our company
we don't have a lot of upper upper management i mean we rarely have any women that are upper management
i don't know
i don't know
that's really that's really well it's it's so uh i guess we're we're kind of the good old boy type atmosphere of men always did the you know the engineering and all this and the technology and men are so i'm i'm sure that's has a lot to do with it
but
right
right
that's right
that's exactly right
so but a lot of more women are starting their own businesses i've noticed than and that's that's pretty interesting
oh does she
that's pretty interesting
yeah
there's a lady here in uh dallas who started a or a cheese company can't remember the name of it
and she's a [naire] from it
and i i just think god if only it could be me
oh god um
that's hard
i i suspect there's i i don't even know um
virtually everything
um yeah
that i i i didn't know that much actually that that it it it's happening a lot
and and and she's a woman
oh really
who is that
right
what's her name
oh
the only texas politician that i actually know is is a woman is ann richards
yeah
who who to me is just um i i had heard very little about her before
but um i saw her speak at the uh i guess it was the eighty
the eighty six
no
the eighty eighth convention whatever
and i was just i feel in love with her
yeah
that's true
i think that there's but that i think that will come with time with um more more more [pac] and so forth being interested in them
oh really
why is that
that's interesting
i um no
i'm i'm i'm probably partial to uh
i mean i i think that there there are certain jobs that men
i i don't mean to be [sexist] here
but i think there are certain jobs like minister
and i think you know men are possibly better
maybe [pediatricians] although that i i could split on
i i think i have some
i know some good males
but there are some things i just think you know that
uh now that's interesting
yes
um
right
anybody who wants to go into combat i get to that point uh
go ahead and have fun
yeah
i'm i'm no
yeah
there are some that i there are some jobs like for instance i get a little bit annoyed when i see people saying um that they should you know there was an issue a while ago in new york where they were going to lower the standards for firemen because they so women could be right
and i might think if you're going to lower the standards you know you're you're just what what what what good is a fireman who can't pick me up
but as for other stuff
i think i had no idea about the politics
and i i i think that's wonderful
i mean
yeah
we're very [impatient] well that's probably better
i suspect as a general rule i i don't know why this is but i suspect it's probably the case that women are are are are more honest politicians
i mean it it it may be because there's an old boy network
that's true
any anywhere you go basically there there's there's
well yeah
i guess although there are some women who honestly if they were uh
i i'd go running if they were chasing chasing me
but but you are right
i think there are some i i think that you know more often than not
i'd be you know i mean there there are still biological differences that i think lots of people forget
um i'm probably of of of the i i never had that situation
so i'm probably of the opinion that uh that well if they really want to i guess maybe they should
but i'd i'd sort of look at it and go well are you really sure you want to do this
i mean
yeah
right
even today
uh_huh
i'm i'm i'm i'm sort of like that
i believe in equal
but different
i mean there there are differences and people just have to sort of realize that there are differences and work from there and figure it out you know
you mean
they're they're everything a politician should be
uh_huh
until women are are better represented in politics
i think is one of the
but
yeah
almost almost well not not not so close
but uh
oh really
i i don't know anything about her politics
i just saw her and saw her give this wonderful speech
is she
oh well well well i guess it was good while it lasted for her
you know i don't know what to say about that
uh there there are some now that i think of it
there are some um we don't have like the mayors and and and the governor
the governor of new york mario cuomo you know if ever there was an old italian you know part of the old boy network mario cuomo i suspect but yes
he's still the governor um
and still they're desperately trying to talk him into running for president
oh yes
they they keep his name always pops up an for for for the democratic nomination because i think if he would actually take the nomination he's one of the only democrats i know that could actually possibly do it at some point
but um as for as for the rest of
we have we have some senators and and and representatives and so forth
but that's probably about all
i don't i don't know that we have that many women politicians around here
i guess new york is still still behind the times not like
you texans are way up there
really
that's really cause i don't even i couldn't think of a woman mayor that i'd ever known
some sort of uh county mayor
well yeah
okay
she does the actual running
wow
wow
that that that is a lot for a mayor
that's great
well i guess i guess if if she deserves it
i mean
now that's strange
okay
i think we're supposed to discuss the changes in the roles of women in the last generation or two
an and my opinion is that uh the biggest changes uh probably are about two and one of course is obvious and that's the working woman
and uh the second one which i don't know if you'd go along with or not is that maybe a lot of women are not as uh likely to want to be dominated as past times
and you're proud of that
of course
well uh another uh thing that i want to talk about is which of the the changes that you can think of are the most significant
well and don't you think that you do see more women who are um becoming part of middle management
attorneys uh_huh
let me ask you a question uh while we're talking about the c p a women uh in uh a firm say do you think uh a woman c p a gets paid equally to a man
uh_huh
and even within women
they perhaps some women do not expect uh going away on those [audits] uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well what what future do you see for us in the next twenty years say
yes
oh yes
charlotte also has a woman mayor
well i'll tell you what worries me a little bit about uh the role of women these days
and i'm hoping that that's going to be a change
and i don't know if you see it or not
my husband doesn't always uh see it or understand it uh
and that is the uh the trial of trying to be the [superwoman] the [supermom]
yes
and uh i have gone through that uh myself
and it is hell it really is is tough
and to be able to excuse myself from doing that was a wonderful [liberation] and i i i think the woman pretty much has to do it themselves
but i believe that in the future
that they're going to stop trying to be all things
uh_huh
yes
and a very i will say this very quickly
i had an attorney friend who said
and he'd been practicing probably twenty five years
and he said i wish there were more women in politics they are not quite as crooked
the acceptable morals that we uh_huh
yes
are [reticent] about it anyway
uh_huh
however
i being uh uh former employer myself i did change from being someone who i who felt that women could uh share out share one job and things like that
and i became more understanding of how men often are or for for many years have thought about uh women in the working world
and my husband couldn't believe
and he started teasing me and calling me a male [chauvinist] or a female [chauvinist] but i do
i think there certainly some pluses uh on both sides we just need to get them all put together
well it's been so nice talking to you
an
good luck to you and have a nice day
well the the changes of course in the past generation are the women in the work force
um
and the while their salaries still aren't there yet the opportunities for women who are at least driven uh do tend to be a little bit more compatible with uh changes in life style
so i suspect that that may have had more to do with uh changes in society than anything else
the number of the women in the work force
um i think it depends on which positions and perhaps the personality of the women um let's face it
there are men executives who have gotten there by uh rather [unsavory] means you know [trapping] everybody up along the way
um
when uh they might not necessarily be liked
but if when a woman does that she is [ridiculed] up to the [inth] degree where it's almost expected of men so
some of that is [stereotyped] i think
huh_uh
i think i have
although at the moment
i mean i know a little bit about it
yeah
right
huh_uh
huh_uh
i think the educational opportunities have made some difference
uh because at one point i know my mother in law talked about when she went to college
she really sort of had to do her own way because although she was one of three daughters um
and while her parents were um very supportive in many ways they didn't really seem to have the um the uh the understanding that that daughters should go on for a college degree
had they been sons you know that would have been expected but for daughters it wasn't as necessary
um and see i don't think that's so true anymore
i think people expect both daughters and sons to have whatever opportunities are available
uh
i know we have three sons and one daughter
but the differences are [negligent] in that area
and in fact they were in my own families as well
um it was never considered that my sister and i wouldn't go to college
you know certainly my brothers would
but but we were included in that
so i think those things do
huh_uh
huh_uh
oh yeah
right
right
that's changed so much
i know it's always appalled me because i did not suffer that same problem
fortunately
uh because i went into biological research when i first got
out of college um
and so you know i was not in a situation where i would
but i know that even now many young women getting out of college tend to find themselves in that position of of having to be sort of the secretarial pool
it might not be called that
but that's what it is
until they work their way up and i don't think very many young men are ask to do that although they are asked to do some what less uh technical jobs
or you know too perhaps you know start working their way up
but i don't think it's quite as as low on the [totem] pole
huh_uh
huh_uh
huh_uh
yeah
i do know that there are plenty executive secretaries whose responsibilities are greater than the c e o uh
and they may not make the money
they have a lot of prestige
many do make the money actually
huh_uh
and sometimes those are men too
sometimes secretaries are men too
i'm glad to see that change
uh
oh yeah
and they go to the hospital
and one parent i guess the the uh father was killed
and they get to the hospital and the doctor comes in to work on the injured child
and says oh i can't do that
that's my child
yeah
i mean but see it's so obvious i guess the first time i heard it
i immediately thought of a doctor because that was what i originally wanted to do
so it's it's amazing how many do you know for a minute stop and think
yeah
yeah
i'm sure we're all victims of this sure
we've we've been brought up in the society that perpetrated that problem
yeah
yeah
right
i suppose my feeling is it doesn't matter male or female uh at least if they're given the same opportunity then that's good
although they can't always there are certainly differences between men and women
i guess the other thing that was asked in this for us to discuss was um what kind of changes this has brought about what do we see in the future
and uh just because this past sunday was mother's day
of course
there was some articles in the newspaper about the uh mothers in the work force and that that has certainly made a tremendous difference in society
but what is interesting is at least in the washington post there was um a report of a study that suggested that there were more women now who regretted the necessity for having to work and leave their young children
and that more if given the opportunity if financial if it were not financially necessary would stay home you know would have the choice would make the choice of staying home while their children were young
and it's interesting because i don't know if that's a switch if somehow maybe that is being [revalued] or reevaluated
or not i was fortunate enough that um well it was a decision when we had children to make that decision
and we determined that we would live on my husband's salary
when we first got married
so that when we had children
we would not you know fall in that necessity of my having to work and so we made that choice
we didn't live as well
but we lived well enough
sure
but you see for me
that was the more important
i know of plenty of friends who did not were not able to make that choice
and that's difficult because i think in the long run uh part of the problem in society and maybe part of what happens to the bad the negative attitude of women working comes about because children remember the [traumas] of their mothers trying to work
and run the household
and some of the things that has not changed
and i think that's a serious issue
exactly
yeah
oh yeah
it's very difficult
so that needs to be done
and perhaps education will eventually do it
but uh the idea that all those uh things that were traditionally thought to be the housewife
when she was home as a housewife are still hers
even if she's out working
i mean that's a serious problem
uh
wow that's nice
yeah
huh_uh
and can take care of the child if the child is ill or something
huh_uh
huh_uh
right
actually i have a few friends who who uh have a [nontraditional] family in that the husband is is home with the children
and the wife is out with the more uh uh kind of job
and then the husband in one case is a musician
so he does
guitar lessons and does a lot of uh profession playing you know for weekends and so on
but essentially it's his wife who is the primary money provider there
it's an interesting situation
they have three children
uh so it seems to have worked very well
but um but those things are rare i must say they're still not
no
well um i'm in my
i i i've seen the changes i think in my generation most of all because i'm a early baby boomer
and uh i was brought up uh to sort of get married and raise children
and uh be very domestic and uh when i went to college or went to high school i did very well i was [urged] to become a secretary or a teacher
because those are typical roles
and uh things have changed
and uh i i've ventured off in all sorts of areas and so have most of the other women in my generation
and we're all in business or the professions and uh and uh heavens
we're we're uh astronauts and things like that who who would wouldn't have been imagined in nineteen sixty eight or something
how about you
yes
yes
another thing that happened that i found is that you know when i got married
i didn't know anybody who had ever been divorced or or when i was younger i didn't know anybody who had ever been divorced
in this day and age people are as likely to get divorced as to stay married and very often the woman has to be able to earn a decent living and uh so there's an additional reason for her to be capable of holding down a good job
yes
i i agree with that
and i also think that they're taking a lead in in the arts and in business too
and uh as the years go by
they run surveys to see how many women are c e o or on the boards of major companies and the number is creeping up very slowly but it's definitely increasing so that probably ten years from now
yes
it is
i mean fifteen ten fifteen years ago there were no women on the boards or or or c e o of major corporations unless they inherited the firm from their father you know that sort of thing
but
right
if it was a family owned business
but now they're they're in the board room and they're trying to get ahead and make it in the business world
and of course to some extent the laws are helping them
but uh uh you know there's no no no holding back their ambition on the other hand what it does to the fabric of society and the family remains to be seen
i i i
well i think that in a way they're they're being tested right now we're going through a testing period where capability is is everything
and if they succeed then the the the generation of girls that are growing up
now will have it much easier because there will be a precedent they'll have had role models whereas you know the generation that grew up in the sixties and seventies
sorry
yes
yes
um i guess just by virtue of living longer in a way you're right
because they do it does come to them
but they've got to be young enough to enjoy it
i mean if they're just old ladies sitting around waiting for the end to come
it doesn't do them much good
yes
well i'm in the middle of the country
and and it seems to me it they start their from start from both [coasts] and work their ways [inward] uh one of the one of the things that that i'm finding is that um i've lived in texas
i've lived in new york
and uh i have i've done a lot of visiting out in california
and i know that we're [lagging] behind here
and yet i really do see uh women's roles have increased
and they're gaining new respect
in fact i believe that the mayor of the top five major texas cities are all women
and that goes back to your original point about politics
so uh uh you know it's going to get to a point i some men are going to wonder if they're falling behind
yes
i think the young people today do have an open mind it's just not as much uh type casting by by gender uh you know uh a little girl can say i want to be an [astronaut] or i want to be a fireman
or a policeman
or
it um i'm trying to remember exactly how the question was worded
what what change
in the last generation or two
well one thing
and i don't know how how long a span a generation is considered whether we're talking you know twenty years or or whatever
but it seems to me
there are more and more women it's obvious there are more and more women working outside the home
some of them
of course are finally climbing corporate ladders uh whereas when i was growing up
it was either secretary or teacher
yes
i work at t i
so do i
right
well and probably probably he hasn't seen any female doctors
probably not
but but on if he watches television
if he gets a [coloring] book the doctor is is frequently uh portrayed as a male and the nurse
well i'm just i'm just thinking of pictures that
i've seen
and and you know uh uh i i suspect no no message was ever intended to be while what you have to be this gender to do this job
but it does
sometimes come through and when i said um that those were the only two professions folks seemed to do it wasn't necessarily that that was what i was told to do or or whatever it simply that's what i observed growing up was
about the only women you know it a woman at that time could uh clerk in a grocery store
or any other kind of store
yeah
and i went into teaching
that was what i started out doing early on
and left that when i decided to get married and leave texas for a while
so
and i've never gone back to it in the last in the intervening nineteen years it's just uh i i love to teach
i don't want to have to deal with the discipline problems
and so forth
so that's a whole another story
oh okay [undying] [admiration] comes from me
that's that's for sure
uh_huh
uh uh not by that term anyway
oh
very interesting
very creative
well i hadn't thought about it
but very likely
i went to a seminar a conference just uh friday afternoon
that was put on by by t i
but it it dealt with um the minority issues of promotion within the business
and they had invited three speakers from uh one from xerox and one from [pepsico] and another company out of denver
and these [gentlemen] were all uh v p or higher were from minorities but in addition they were also addressing um women or including women in in the entire focus of the minority issues and so uh it was a very interesting discussion in the afternoon
uh the questions and so forth that their three uh uh speeches [engendered] uh just talking about well how how does your company deal with this
and and and so forth
and it was refreshing to hear that uh companies are beginning to address the issue of uh so few women beyond a certain level
so few in the board room
and so forth and so they they shared some of the ideas they their companies were had uh instituted as far as uh giving a leg up [mentoring] processes and so forth that they
that they had in place
and then one of our v p shared what what are some of the things that t i is doing to um come up with some similar results
i'm beginning to find more and more female engineers
although not um not many of them yet have moved into manager positions
but that'll part of that's because so many of them are are still real young
and they've got to learn the business first
and then they can move up
um
she can pick whatever she wants to be
and if she would like to be the traditional cinderella and find that prince that's okay too
but there
yeah
but there are other options that are available
i'm sorry
uh_huh
okay
we're supposed to take talk about the changes in women's roles
i guess you want to start
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's true
yeah
well they don't give them a whole lot of incentive
i mean you look at the pay a teacher gets versus some of these other professions
and and and society's saying you're not that valuable you know and that that sends a strong signal
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
of course not
uh_huh
well some churches have
that's for sure
oh i i guess about about the same as mine
i don't see a whole lot of [barriers] except that the women are still stuck with the problem of how to handle children
and i mean it's companies at least the companies i work with aren't helping and they're not recognizing that that's a real problem
um just basic things like having a day care center on the premises they don't understand what it costs the company to have someone have to you know go to the day care center every time the kid is sick or hurt or whatever
or you know just there's a lot of lost time there
and i think that they'd find people a lot more productive and a lot more willing to maybe work long hours or do whatever it takes if
they would help taking care of the children because they're not doing that at all
so you've got you know an extra problem that it doesn't seem like the men have to deal with very much some do
and some don't
that's the biggest problem
okay
the change how women's roles have changed
well i think we've moved out of the stereotype of the homemaker
uh and i think it's been necessity
with the economy and with the dysfunctional families
well
uh possibly you know if if they're doing it simply uh
for the money i think you know that if if it's something that they need to fulfill themselves then that's something different too
that uh they should have the opportunity to do it
and the quote [homemaker's] role should be divided equally between the partners uh_huh
that's right
and of course now women can be anything they want to
uh one thing that has not changed is is equality of pay among the sexes and uh i don't see any great hope for that being changed in the near future
quite frankly
but if you look at the people who make the decisions uh the senate and the house
they're primarily male and uh you know the big decision makers are still male until we get that changed
you know i'm a single
parent well a single person my children are are grown and married
but uh i still have to support myself
and i you know i personally i don't work because i want to get out there and do it
i work because if i want to eat i'm out there working
well i did i didn't work while my children were young
and i was married
because i did want to give them the background that they got at home
i did find afterwards though you take the children whose you know in a in a healthy family which i don't know how many of us have healthy families any more
uh but i did find that the children of working parents or working parent uh were more independent
and maybe that goes to where it break it's breaking down the family bonds but i don't know of
too many families that the women really work because they want to uh most of them are working and it's not to buy the t v and the new cars
it's to survive
well even you know here our teachers are paid so poorly
and i don't know of any teacher whose wife is not having to work
so it's it's not just the men without a college education
it's our economy is really bad
right now in oklahoma it's real bad
yes
well oklahoma is certainly in the recession
uh we've been there
we've been here for about three to five years now
and it's really hurting
but uh you know i don't i don't know that any woman would choose that a married woman would really choose to work because when you're working and you're married you're holding down two jobs one at home at home
and one at the
and women's place in the workplace huh
uh to quote my father a woman's place is in the stove
i have to disagree
my wife works
so what do you do
are you
well i guess as far as roles in the workplace they've uh they've made some you know pretty serious uh ground in the last thirty forty years
well my sister is a she's a medical professional
and you know she says that in in order to get paid the same as a man
you have to do twice the work
but
fortunately it's not that tough
yeah
yeah
i i grant you that
well that hasn't been true of any of my companies
yeah
because well the women that i hire are ones that are capable if they're capable they can do anything they want to do
yeah
yeah
well i hope so
yeah
well for your sake
sure
but uh i think that as long as the american society is inundated as it is by the commercial market you know the
[television's] commercials in particular
uh progress is going to be rather rapid but [shaping] role models is going to be a problem
because you know they don't want to rock the boat with anybody
and you know i don't know how you perceive life
but i know that people are prejudiced and they bigoted and they carry their their convictions all the way to the bone no matter what they say
and uh you know i'm the first one
well i [flunked] the the m c p test big time
yeah
you know what that is
oh uh uh a man and his son were driving along the road in a convertible
and they have a car wreck and the the father's killed
and the boy is rushed to the emergency room and the doctor walks in looks down says i can't operate on him
that's my son
all right
you passed
believe me
it's not that easy for a lot of men to understand that
you know
and i have a woman doctor
yeah
really
well actually we go doctor [garcia's] office and we started going with him as soon as he got done with his residency he was a guy at the emergency room when we went there
and then he got his office
well we just you know stayed with him
and he's hired this other lady and uh my sister says that she's a better doctor
i don't know
you know i see doctor once every six months you know
but uh
yeah
yeah
well getting into medical school is no no mean trick either
but uh as far as a you know the the the role of women in the workplace i think texas has come remarkably far considering the the high density of [rednecks] that are there around
i'm a i'm a transplant i'm you know we came from out of state
when i was very young
but it was too late
i was already formed yeah
well you know i was like uh i guess ten or eleven you know
and we came from uh a family that was my mother is strong to say the least
no not outside the home
no
she was a she went to college you know correspondence courses and whatnot
but my parents were my dad was in the air force
and all the time that uh you know he was in the air force
well she's never had to work you know he always provided the the financial support
but she has worked uh [therapeutically] you know
so you know something to do
what do you think have been the most significant changes
so lawyers
yeah
yeah
well i think that's a big contributor i think women have uh really uh begun to [penetrate] a lot of fields that were dominated by men for centuries
oh yeah
uh_huh
well i think uh one of the best things that has happened in the twentieth century has been the uh [penetration] of a lot of these fields by women
and i think it's going to continue uh
and even though it's pretty difficult now for some men and and a lot of women i think uh it's going to bring very good things
and uh we're going to be a lot better off as a society as it continues but it's a painful transition
yeah
yeah
well i think there are a lot of attitudes that have to change
and i guess that's the big thing you know as people change their attitudes that's going to make the biggest difference women uh participating as equal partners in our society is one of the best things that will ever happen and history will record that
but a lot of people really don't like that idea
and uh
no
i i'm not look at what happened with the [anita] hill testimony before the senate subcommittee and uh now i'm not surprised by that at all
we have uh
we have a two year old my wife uh works out of the home
uh and uh uh i think just looking at how her uh views differ from those of her mother a generation before
so it's it it's really changing attitudes and uh the economic necessity
and the political changes as you pointed out are going to make a big difference
i think uh it's a painful transition
but a really important one
and
yeah
i think it's a big step for [humankind] and i think uh it's it's real progress but there are a lot of people with attitudes that have to change
and i i guess in answering the question
that's what i would say i'd say that overall it's just the attitude of men and women toward equal participation and equal pay and equal political influence
and all sorts of other things for women because that's really going to be better for everybody
but a lot of people are threatened by that as is reflected in what goes on
yeah
i
well i think i think both
yeah
both attitudes have to change
and i think uh uh it's it's evident to me as i look at all the television shows that now focus on the relationship between men and women uh watching roseanne last night watching uh the show that [preceded] it home improvement all these television shows which reach the american people are beginning to reflect new attitudes
and those
well and not only i mean the the fact of the matter is that women have have carried more than their weight and are still doing that
and uh i see
i think this is part of the problem for men as well as a guy i recognize that it's uh it's men who have suffered from this too because men need to
uh yes
i do full time
no
i don't have any children
no
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my gosh
uh_huh
do you think it's gotten easier on you personally you know as far as at work uh you know other people how you interact has it's gotten easier on you
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
right
yeah
i'm an engineer
and so so i uh
i have uh uh problem
even when i was going through school
i found it to be a man's world
and i got a lot of static from that
and it my first few years at t i
i found it to really be hard
but now that i've been there for a while
it's it's kind of a deal
you have to prove yourself
and after i've been there for a while now you know the guys i'm just kind of one of the guys
i'm um you know
respected and and and i do the same things they do
i'm not necessarily sure i get the the same pay
but i'm pretty sure i do
and and i feel a lot better about it
i have a friend that had just turned forty five
that's an engineer and she tells me horror stories of what it use to be like
you know you know always getting uh [belligerent] comments like you ought to be at home having babies instead of doing these [blueprints] and things like that things that would just make her cry at work
but she couldn't cry in front of them because they'd do it more you know
so she's she you know builds me up and says be a strong woman and and present yourself professionally and you know builds my confidence quite a bit
so that's why i ask you that if if you thought maybe times his changed made
it easier on you at at work
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that is so strange
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
this little young girl yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well let me ask you this how have um did children do you feel like children set you back or kind of went off track a little while you know this this is an issue
i'm on a women's subcommittee women's initiative subcommittee and we were discussing this last week
matter of fact that certain women have taken career kind of jobs you know and and decided to go in and have one or two children
and then got back on track
and they didn't see that as a setback
but
uh_huh
in other words if
you wouldn't of had
oh yeah
that's what they were saying before they had children
they were working like crazy people
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh uh
right
uh_huh
i'd be okay
yeah
yeah
right
right
and a fear
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
i i hear that uh there's all men in my group
i'm i'm one of two women the secretary is a woman
and these men a lot of them have uh small children either just one or or two
you know babies because we're all fairly young and and i hear the men saying that a lot you know
and i think that is a culture change that you know their lives have changed since they had children you know they don't want to work that sixty hours anywhere they want to hurry up and get home you know i can't wait to get home
so i can play with my son
so
and they have the same concerns as not necessary an abuse guilt but you know thinking well you know if i i could spend more time then they could learn so much more you know
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's right
their nannies and you know
right
day cares
that's really interesting
yeah
i was going to say if uh when i get to that point i'm sure i will know it
i see it from day to day like i say the men are experiencing this
you know a lot of them
one of them just had a child within the last year
and he has totally changed
from this seventy hour work person to somebody that goes god i ready to get out of here you know i need to go to day care
and he routinely calls the day care during the day you know like can i talk to my daughter
you know and and uh yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that'll they'll me too
and my family they'll go oh my god
you've
well how do you think women's roles have changed
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i i uh just in my lifetime i know that the role of women has changed drastically also my mother when she began having her family she quit her job and stayed home
until i'm the youngest in my family until i was uh in junior high school old enough to care for myself
when i got home for from school
but i think that uh the changes in the next twenty years will probably be just as drastic you you'll see more women c e o and more women holding public offices oh i agree
yeah
yeah
yeah
it it's probably all
it it's the role of women is is in an evolutionary stage
so we i'm sure it will eventually evolve to where it is equal
it just hasn't reached that point yet because women uh haven't been in positions similar to men for that many years relative to how long men have had those types
of positions
uh_huh
yeah
no
it's not fair
well there's not much you can do except for yourself individually and and stand up for your salary
i mean for what you want in your own job
and if if it's not going to work out go find some place that will
do what you want to do
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well i think it during this in this evolutionary theory that i have here that men will eventually evolve around to where they participate more in the home because when it gets to the point to where the house is dirty
and the kids are dirty
and and mom's not home
she's at work men are going to gradually learn how to do those kinds of things
well at i the the the generations that are being raised now by working mothers i i
are are a little more in touch with the household chores and duties and what has to be done
so i think over a couple of generations time it will all change
because it's really been uh my generation i'm twenty five
and and my generation grew up for the most part with mothers in the home
but again my generation plan of women plans on working and not being at home
so it will be my children who really make big changes i think because that they will probably the majority of children now are at home without their mothers
well
or in some type of a day care or something because so many women work now
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
how do you feel about women in public office do you think that that's going to grow and how far do you think that's going to go in the next ten years or so
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
i don't know any statistics either
but it's it's probably going to be the same type of situation that that uh the black people have gone through it took them
well black men
a long time to to get up to the pay scales of the white man
and now i think it it's feasible for a black man to be president
uh_huh
and since this evolution or this this [progression] of black male salaries and all that was all before women
were heavy in the work place i women will probably go through the same type of deal
it's just
further down the road
yes
uh_huh
no
i live in san antonio
we have a woman mayor
yeah
yeah
well texas had a woman governor a hundred years ago
or whatever ma [ferguson] yeah
yeah
i think it was ma [ferguson] i know texas had a woman governor
i think she was
i'm not sure it was a hundred or so
years ago
so i i don't know
i'm not real up on past history or anything
i i'm thinking it might have been the kind of deal where her husband was governor
and he died or something
i'm not sure
yeah
yeah
i wouldn't now because i don't know of one that's that's equipped to handle
no
i why i didn't
but uh
uh_huh
the the problem
i'm sorry
go ahead
yeah
i uh i just i don't think a woman president is anywhere in the near future if not just for the just for american prejudice
but the world several major countries in the world that we deal with all the time don't respect women as business people
so a woman president would be laughed at by other countries because they wouldn't respect her as a business person
she was
but i don't think that england deals as heavily with with like for instance the arab countries
i don't know all the details of it
but i i know that for instance in saudi arabia women are just
and in uh my mother has done business in germany and it was very difficult for her going over there because they just don't have very many business women
and and the men basically see a business woman and ask them to go get coffee or something
it's just it's very difficult to be
well respected
okay
i uh i think in general that the the uh one of the biggest change in in uh the role of women in the last two generations is the fact that because of the uh probably the national debt as a matter of fact
but the uh [impossibility] of of uh making ends meet even in a family that which has a two two parent family
that many women work out of the home now
and probably that is the biggest uh change of her role that she now has to uh not only be uh mother uh [nurturer] or whatever
but she also has to to help earn the earn the income that comes into the home
and uh and it has
right
it has uh uh has a lot of effect on a family
and it can be positive and it can be very negative
uh and uh i think a lot of the problems that we that we have in in school in education a lot of the problems we have in drugs a lot of the problems we have in in uh uh [juvenile] delinquency whatever probably can be laid right at that door
because uh uh a child who does not have the kind of [underpinnings] that you can get uh with uh with a parent in the home whether it's the father or the mother
uh it just does not have the same kind of opportunities as the one who does
that's the kind of uh what would it be uh uh [calming] influence or whatever
uh i think another thing
it gives them the feeling of of uh the importance of their position
as a child you know and and course most of their problems come from uh lack of ego as opposed to too much ego most of them uh do things because they either want attention or because they they feel that they're not worthy and so they they do things that they're not not what the the norm would like them to do
so that it is always kind of negative
what do you feel about how do you feel about the role of women uh being a man that that gives you a different
right
um
that's right
yeah
i think that's yeah
i think so
do do you have children
oh
okay
yeah
i i think that's probably true
i think one of the problems is that that government in their [meddling] tends to encourage that
instead of discourage it
instead of giving you a break so that maybe a wife could stay home and do
something satisfying in another area you know i i think there are women who need to do things other than just be a mother but i think that's possible
i mean i don't think that education or anything else starts at school
it starts in your head and and any anyplace you are
you can educate be educated
and so it doesn't mean they have to stop doing all the things that they might want to do
and uh and so but but the environment
no
no
nor do they have to stay home all the time
there are lots of ways that they that you can do this
but the
but the problem is that they have so little choice
yeah
yeah
i think that's right
i think that would be good
right
and have and have
and and if if anybody is going to help them decide about uh about day care or something
maybe it needs to be something worked out in uh in uh in uh uh a workplace so that they can their children can go there
so that they can see them so that they can have this uh you know during lunchtime or whatever
some kind of a better uh contact and more uh a better feeling of of the fact that they are the important thing in this
household as opposed to the work schedule being the important thing in this household
uh_huh
i would imagine that's right
that's right
that's right
it's not
and and and the the problem is you see it isn't just the stress of the work
but they had plenty of stress before
now they're just doubling their stress
and that's really uh really more than you can take sometimes i think that's true
that's true
i i think that uh uh there are a lot of really positive things about the changes about uh uh more women going for for uh better educations and uh
all these things i think in uh in a person's life
there are a lots of
right
and there are lots of of stages of your life where you can do things that you didn't do
uh at some other time uh if you're better prepared you're going to be able to take advantage of those things
maybe later or or maybe during sometimes
right
right
yeah
that's right
i think so too
with someone needs to do it
that's the thing we just we just came from our son just graduated from uh from in his master's degree
and his wife is a nurse
and he had just graduated in social services work
and uh uh when she went back
they just had a a baby in january
and when she went back to work
she says okay
i'll work i'll work five days in two weeks
but it has to be the times when he's home
and so that one of them is taking care of this baby all the time
but it's a neat thing to watch because he's as adept at it as she is
and and equally as comfortable and i think that is a neat thing it it'll be neat for the children too if you can get a relationship like that
but where the where the husband is comfortable
doing those things because children badly need more of that badly need more of that
that's right
well hey it's been good to talk to you
yeah
all right
have a good day
okay
well originally i guess women were uh in the house cooking and uh cleaning and all of that good stuff
oh yeah
uh actually the children they they don't have as many children these days
because they've gone out to work
and they're uh uh well the families are shrinking the divorce rate is up uh they're still trying to get the pay that uh the men get uh i guess even farther back uh they uh used to not even have sports for the women and uh then the women starting wearing the tennis shoes and playing sports and going out to work uh
oh sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well it's kind of ironic they're also these days
they're trying they're working their way back into the house
and they're trying to have the best of both worlds
and they're just now figuring out in the nineties that it's not quite working
and they can't have both
so uh i guess they'll have to make a choice
right
they'll just have to allocate that time
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i guess the men have definitely figured out that women are as smart
there's a considerable amount more uh there's a considerable more amount of doctors these days than there used to have been
and of course you like you said they're more educated
and uh we've we've uh brought quite a bit to the world
uh_huh
well some women are actually leaving the husbands home with the kids
and well i don't want to talk about the husband's changing roles
but they're all they're learning to cook now and to do the laundry and uh all of those good things
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it's no surprise that uh movies like dances with wolves have come out in the nineties
and the influence uh with the men
and uh the changing of roles
actually
uh that was a very good example of women in the nineties and what's a real man and a real woman
you know they uh they do a little bit of both uh the hard labor and uh you know the smart the uh all [brawn] and no brains on
both sides
okay
well it was nice talking to you
okay
thank you
bye yes
i'm twenty
how old are you
oh
um
huh
um i just think it's more acceptable for women to um be in the workplace than uh i guess it was a long time ago um that's
like i just think that they were expected to be at home more before
and now it's more prevalent i guess
oh really
huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
so you just don't think that is says do you think that's good or bad or
uh_huh
right
and why do you think why why do you think that is just
uh_huh
do you think it's because they have the qualifications or because not at all
oh
huh
they just are willing to take the back seat or
uh_huh
oh really
are you really
so you're pretty um liberal as far as well um yeah
i i don't know
i'm more of a i guess i'm more conservative in my viewpoints i mean i think it's great if they wanted it if you know women want to do that
and i'm planning on being a nurse
so but i don't know
i
very few
very few
but because they think it's a woman's job probably
i i don't want to earn more money
i don't huh
right
the
you just don't think that it pays off
i mean like i i found out like the all the doctor comes in and does is the like end delivery is come in and deliver the baby
i mean all the [preeverything] is nurse
nurses
but the doctors get the bucks
yeah
uh_huh
oh definitely
i i agree
okay
i think although there have been some i am still of the opinion that we're second rate citizens in most areas uh i believe probably world war two is when you know the thing started that caused women to be more [liberated] because the men were at at war
and they needed women in factories and things have never been the same
as far as the as far as the job market women started working outside the home then
but it has taken a long time and think we have got a long way to go
yeah
i agree with that
uh_huh
right
right
no
no
and i think it's a good sign
i do see one of the reasons i also believe there is a lot to be ahead of us is i returned to college and i see girls in their twenties
so they think there is no problem
they don't realize the struggle that just in the last few years for them to simply go into professions
especially they have just been laughed at
and it can't be done any more
cause legally it can't be done
yes
and things like today
maybe people that don't want to be in a certain profession they can't say that
well i don't think the change has come like from the men's side they can still feel it you know
yes
yes
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
i wasn't aware of that either until uh just a year ago when i took a sociology course that even existed that is how indoctrinated i was
but then i am forty six i grew up with the generation the guys my brothers went to college and i am now struggling through no
and well wasn't important you know you go be a secretary or be a [beautician] that was my point
and uh but yeah
i didn't even realize there were societies like you say where women were important
right
right
right
well i find myself looking towards what i am doing
and i am leaning towards education and that is still another area of women
but that is what i want to do you know have i have made that decision that that's what i wanted to do
even if it is the traditional thing
it is still what i want to do
and i know it's like
right
yes
yes
some something through that too
yeah
i was very seriously
okay  
yes  
and uh let me tell you  
this is a really neat thing to do too that they did  
i didn't do it  
some of the other people the older people organized it  
and what they did they had uh a book made up  
and it was like   when our ancestors first came over  
and then what they did was they asked every family to write something about their family   and like how many kids you had and who you had married  
and you know it went through like  
and it showed who my uh well who my husband's parents were you know   and who he married and then how many children we had and then like his brothers and sisters  
and it went through the whole family and stuff  
and it was so good  
yeah  
but it it really did  
you know and plus it's got a lot more people interested in it because   you got to participate sort of  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
and everybody got a book   that came to the reunion  
and it told like uh you know where the first [connally's] came over  
and um it told what happened when they got there and how many kids they had  
and it just kept coming on up through the generations  
so it was really that was really neat  
and  
well he does  
he does  
i don't  
but uh he has enough relatives to make up for me not having any  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what that's what happened when i when i first uh met my husband  
i said this can't be you know  
nobody can have this many relatives  
because a lot of them lived in like a group you know down one highway  
and there was a lake  
and they all lived down there by it  
and so we were going down   the highway you know  
and he kept saying this is where my uncle lives  
and this is where my aunt lives and my uncle  
and i kept thinking this guy is putting me on  
nobody has this many relatives you know  
so but   they really were all there  
and another thing that's really good about uh family reunions   is having everybody just cook whatever is their specialty   and bring it   at because nobody it seemed like liked the same thing  
but you had a choice  
and then you got to taste a lot of new dishes and stuff too   and get a lot of good recipes  
where if you said a certain thing and say okay we're all going to have fried fish or we're all going   to have fried chicken  
everybody might not like that  
oh yeah  
yeah  
they came from all over  
um they just stayed with different ones of them  
they just came down and like say okay this aunt and uncle [kip] uh all their kids and their grand kids and everything  
and then   they had it  
it had gotten so big that they had it at the church  
and they had a church service ahead of it  
you know and then they had uh   uh then they ate out on the ground  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but you know what you can do  
a lot of these lakes and things if you could find a centrally located like say about the same distance for all of you all to come  
they have these places where you can rent them  
and it you know like on a lake  
like uh it's a big place  
i mean you know   it's got little rooms that separate off of it and stuff  
and it's not very expensive that way  
right  
it's like a   they have like a   a convention type thing  
and then it has little rooms off of it where   you know you'd go and sleep at night time  
but then it has like a kitchenette and things like that  
but you  
right  
and another  
yeah  
but they had  
that was  
you know that  
what you can do is you can write different places the chamber of commerce   tell them what you're interested in  
ask them what they have   you know at area lakes and all   if they have something like that  
because now every time we plan anything just about we write to the chamber of commerce of where we're going because   you can find out so much easier   that way than try to locate it you know  
calling different places can really run you up a bill  
but if you can find a centrally located place where everybody would have to come about the same distance  
i mean you can't get it exact you know usually  
but uh and then everybody goes to that place  
and that is not bad at all  
but they have lot of times they'll have like uh little cabins  
and three or four or five families can stay in those cabins because they have you know just the single bunk beds and stuff  
and they can all stay in those cabins  
and then you know you can have [cookouts] and stuff like that  
that doesn't cost you as much  
yeah  
but that's uh you know that's the best way i found   because whenever you have   something where you go and  
now we had one  
this was before i lost a lot more of my family  
but it wasn't any of my immediate family anyway   because i didn't have any of them left  
but um   they had uh uh thing where you could everybody could come and meet and go out to eat  
but i didn't think that was as good because   it was like you know you couldn't really talk and stuff like you could when   you were at the lake   or somewhere you know where you were out  
this was like everybody came into town and went to this restaurant  
yeah  
and it just  
i didn't like that much  
no  
what they did was   well see what they did was okay they uh they wrote to all the initial people you know   the the oldest ones  
okay  
then those in turn got a hold of these other ones  
and they had like  
i think there was four or five different people   that would call   you know some of them if they didn't have their addresses and all on them  
and you know   they told them that what we had to do was when we sent back in our information we had to tell them how many people were going to be coming you know  
and then when they when they talked to us or when they sent us the letter it uh you know to get the information and all   it asked you know will you be willing to bring  
and you had to check off what all you would be willing to bring  
and so really there wasn't any problem with  
that's the reason it ended up in a church because   i mean there was just so many of them  
but it turned out so much better like that   because everybody knew they knew ahead of time how many people to expect  
now if there was a sickness or something like that i mean you know you're not going to lose   that many  
right  
okay well  
well see then  
okay  
if you wanted them both to come   then you would put you would have put that down on the list  
and you would have sent you would have been the one that sent their invitation to them   and ask for their information  
to send back to those other people  
right  
because once it went to the the oldest people and then they knew who they wanted to invite  
then they sent their little things to us  
okay  
it was up to me   who i was going to you know   whether i wanted my kids and you know my any of my family to come  
so  
and then you know it never did  
like if i didn't want somebody to come then i just wouldn't send them one of the [questionnaires]  
so there really wasn't a problem that way  
well  
but i tell you what that's the neatest book we've got  
course we've got we've still got it  
and they charged us i think it was like it was like five or six dollars i can't remember   exactly you know   that we paid for the book to be printed  
and it's not uh it's not a hard back book it's just a oh like a you know [folder] type thing  
but it has the entire  
you know it has everybody that you could ever imagine   and some you couldn't  
and it will be something my kids will have you know  
just like  
yeah  
because if you stop and think  
i don't know if you're like me  
but i know very little about before my grandparents  
i mean very very little about it  
yeah  
maybe what you could do if you couldn't get into a full family reunion   and you wanted to go back some  
but then usually when you find out some information from like your parents   then you can find out from you know you can find somebody else that can tell you something else about these  
well have you ever uh had a family reunion  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
no kidding  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's so neat  
oh great  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so so did everybody send in their information and they made a book up   about it  
and then you could get it at the reunion  
oh nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
that is neat  
so do you have a big family  
oh he does  
yeah  
that's kind of how my husband and i are  
i have a kind of a big family  
and he just has himself and his brother and his parents  
and that's it  
so he had to kind of get used to us when we first started going together  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh how nice  
oh my gosh  
yeah  
how funny  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
not be able to do it  
so did people come like from out of town to the reunion  
or  
they did  
did you put them up in other peoples houses  
or did you have hotel rooms  
or how did you do it  
they did  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
how nice  
and they just brought food with them  
did they just have like over a weekend  
is that how they did it  
uh_huh  
well i'm real curious because my family  
it didn't sound  
i don't think my family is as big as your husband's  
i don't think we'd need a whole church  
but um the problem is we are all really scattered   around  
there isn't any one place where most of us live  
so if we ever had a reunion we'd kind of all have to stay in a hotel  
i mean you know there would be one person who lived there that would have a house  
but they couldn't put everybody up  
so it i think it would get kind of expensive  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you mean  
so  
oh i see  
so everybody could stay together  
yeah  
a house or something  
uh_huh  
oh  
see that would be great because then you could spend so much more time together   than if you all were in your own hotels or something  
and then every time you wanted to go eat with somebody you'd probably have to go to out eat or something  
it would run into a lot of money  
so  
that sounds like fun  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you get a  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that would be great  
that would be really nice  
yeah  
that sounds good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
and you have to sit at a table and just  
yeah  
well um did you  
was it hard to decide who to invite and who not to invite  
i mean did you have to draw a line  
or did the people that had that reunion have to draw a line  
like they just  
whoever   wanted to come  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh   there  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
sure  
sure  
no that would just be a few  
but how about like because of divorce and stuff like that  
like my parents are divorced  
and they are both [remarried]  
and you know there i mean there's  
i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so then  
i i'm kind of like in control over who comes uh just from my family  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i see  
i see  
that's a pretty good idea to do it that way  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
well that's a real good idea  
yeah  
i bet  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
how neat  
yeah  
i know that's really neat  
that's really neat  
i was just thinking of that   what you could tell your kids  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i just  
the thing is i know a lot of stories  
but i can't remember who it was about  
my grandparents told us when i was growing up and even when i was an adult  
they still tell all kinds of stories about their parents and their cousins and their best friends cause they all grew up in new york city  
but i can't you know i remember these stories  
but i have no idea who it was that was in those stories  
so i mean i couldn't give an accurate  
i couldn't tell my kids what you know those people were like  
i just remember they had some funny stories  
but i don't know who it was  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
what are your suggestions in making a family reunion successful  
well i guess so  
have you had any in the  
well how old are you  
okay  
so you   you have been to some family reunions perhaps  
now how long in advance do they uh let them know  
uh_huh  
so they all know it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
well that sounds like fun  
do they all have the small children too that come  
so all ages  
well my husband has uh on one side has an extended family  
and they don't ever plan it as like you do  
i think if you can count on it every four years then people have it in mind  
so they have to start talking about it or getting their act together about six months ahead to get in touch with everybody   because they're rather socially active too  
and so it has it seems by doing it about six months ahead they can pretty much get everybody there  
if they don't you know they'll say oh we're planning to go so and so that go to to a certain place that weekend with somebody else  
and we're already locked in  
but six months ahead has seemed to be okay for them  
my family uh my parents are the youngest of very large families  
therefore they don't have many people left  
and uh the few previous ones i've had uh  
i haven't known many of those people  
but uh in the last few years it really has just been our immediate family  
and that's been very nice  
with uh  
i have one sister   and three brothers  
and they're only three out of five of us who have children  
so uh we get to spend a lot of quality time with each other  
and that's kind of nice because my husband's family reunions are so large  
and they don't see each other very often  
we don't really know many of them  
it really is  
they're fun  
they're a lot of fun  
but uh still uh they're not done on a regular basis  
and uh you kind of forget what happened and who they were from the time before  
uh those are the ones that are in texas  
or you go to indiana on that  
uh_huh  
where in indiana  
lafayette i don't know where  
i used to live in indianapolis  
yeah  
yeah  
it's very pretty country in there i think  
it's gorgeous  
well i  
uh when is your next one uh scheduled now  
yes well  
and do you think you'll have a baby to take back with you  
maybe  
i mean you need another [milestone] you know  
yes  
well i'm sure  
and then all of your family probably has not met your husband  
oh is he  
and and he's living your both living in sherman  
do you work to t i  
uh_huh  
and does he  
uh_huh  
well we don't either  
but uh i have a friend who uh is working on this project  
yes  
and  
well i don't know uh  
i i have a hard time getting uh people on the telephone  
uh_huh getting through to anybody  
sometimes i call off and on all day  
but anyway uh i guess we're supposed to be talking about family reunions aren't we  
but i got off that  
yes  
well um i think we have been talking probably about four and a half minutes  
and uh uh we both look forward to going to our next reunions i'm sure  
but it has been fun talking to you  
thank you  
okay  
good  
bye bye  
have a big family i guess  
that's a start  
twenty five  
so  
i just got married  
right  
every four years on one side of my family they plan on having uh like my grandparents and all their brothers and sisters and then all their kids and grandkids  
well we plan on it  
it's like the third weekend in august  
so it's every four years  
and so  
yeah  
and then you know arrangements are made like during the summer for you know um food and whose whose staying where because a lot of people are from down here in texas  
and uh a lot of my family is in indiana  
that's where i'm originally from  
so um we usually meet like at my [uncle's] cottage in the um at the lake and uh make a couple days of it  
yeah  
pretty much  
yeah  
and uh you know there's some my age  
and then there are some a lot younger an about four generations i guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's kind of bad  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's fun getting together with immediate family  
a lot of my cousins are real close  
and we always get together during holidays and weddings and stuff like that  
so  
uh no  
the ones in indiana  
uh_huh  
lafayette  
yeah  
it's a little north of indianapolis about an hour  
uh_huh  
so  
well it's like the last one was my high school graduation  
the next one was when i graduated from college  
so i guess about two more years  
uh maybe  
i don't know  
two more years  
i don't know  
probably  
yeah  
i guess that's that's what  
i mean i've been married now for about nine months  
so that was another [milestone] i guess  
um yeah  
he's from indiana  
so they all met  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
he's trying to get in med school  
so  
oh really  
are they getting all the data they need  
oh really  
huh  
well we've kind of exhausted everything i guess  
oh okay  
oh yeah  
well you too  
and maybe i'll talk to you again  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
uh no  
i have never organized one  
but we are we have one uh we are going to have one on memorial day i guess  
they have had one the last two years we go out to the my dad's farm and uh and you know it is just a picnic and spend the night   go fishing and stuff   like that  
oh about ten  
huh_uh  
it  
uh_huh  
everybody  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh yes  
yeah  
my my uh dad has a house out there anyway  
uh_huh  
uh no  
it is it is it is like a country country home  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the grandchildren  
just a few  
it just depends  
uh uh all my grandparents are dead so uh there is there are not you know none of them are there  
and and uh then an uncle is dead  
so   the the big family is a lot smaller that it used to be  
uh yeah  
we are in we are all uh  
like they live up in sherman  
it is near lake texoma  
and  
uh all of his children live in the dallas area too  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
french reunion  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
meet in the middle   uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and they do not have to clean up afterwards  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i am i am sorry  
uh no  
he does not really have any any uh uh domestic [livestock] anyway  
but he leased uh to his neighbor for the cattle to feed on  
yeah  
pretty much  
he has a garden and uh a lot of fruit trees   and blueberry bushes and things  
uh_huh  
and then there is wild blackberries there too  
so  
he gets  
huh  
yeah  
it is kind of they're kind of off and on it seems like  
depends on the rain  
uh  
it is uh it is uh eighty acres  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh  
and most of it you know  
you just spend time on maybe ten acres of it  
and uh because that is where the ponds are and where everybody fishes  
we kind of have a an informal contest  
my uncle uh put some bass in uh his pond a few years ago  
well he put some crappie too  
but the bass  
we have not been able to catch any of the adult bass yet  
so  
they are in there but they are real spooky  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
never saw the bass  
oh  
oh it is probably in there just [burping] goldfish  
yeah  
yeah  
they really do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
they  
there is a uh  
you might put some like some yellow catfish in there  
i do not know if they would live very well up in new york  
but they get huge  
and uh they routinely use them for bait for uh goldfish for bait   for yellow catfish  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they live in the mississippi river all the way through minnesota   and up into canada  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh   uh_huh  
uh   right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is what happens  
yeah  
and uh we feed the catfish  
they feed the catfish like uh every couple of weeks  
and uh and sometimes that is the best time to catch them  
yeah  
because they will just they will just come after anything then  
and you could catch a couple anyway   during that time  
uh mixed [purina] uh  
it is uh cat food uh catfish food  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
well i do not know how much different it is from dog food but you know   it is uh it looks like [purina] high pro  
yeah  
but they come up to the top  
and it is the best time to take pictures  
because they come up to the top and you can see their [whiskers] come through the water  
and   they're  
the the big catfish just kind of vacuum the top of the water  
uh_huh  
well they are really funny fish  
when you catch them they make a kind of a a [burping] [growling] sound at you  
and they try to hit you with their tails  
oh well the channel catfish get up to uh  
i think the world record is fifty some pounds  
uh  
that that is only about three and a half feet long  
yeah  
they get real fat  
uh from the time  
they they stay [slender] until they get to be uh eighteen inches long and then they start to [widen]   out  
uh my daughter we were up there one time and my daughter was fishing  
and i think that was when she was three  
and she caught a catfish by accident  
she was fishing for sunfish  
and she said here and she handed me her rod and reel  
and and uh you know it was just pulling drag out  
and it [swimmed] wherever it wanted to  
okay  
it was nice talking   to you  
okay  
bye bye  
yeah  
have a nice memorial weekend  
bye  
have you ever uh organized a family reunion  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how many   people usually show up  
oh it is not that big  
because   uh we have had sort of weekends like that too  
but i never thought of it really as a reunion  
i sort of think of a reunion with my uh all the extended family  
yeah  
that would be hard for us because most of the family is out in california  
and some is in new york   and north carolina  
and it gets  
it is kind of hard to get get everybody organized  
uh is there someone  
do you all just sort of chip in and help out with stuff when you are there  
or  
and there is there is uh  
he keeps a uh food out there   year round  
so so he does not live there though  
vacation home  
yeah  
it sounds nice uh  
are there kids that are there too or mostly adults  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are you all located in texas  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that to me is  
yeah  
dallas i know of  
houston i know of  
and that is about it   in texas  
the rest of it is sort of a big void to me  
but uh you know we have uh well  
we all got together  
it was about two years ago for  
i was  
i had graduated from college  
and uh i was going to live in france for a year  
and so my parents invited  
it was not just family  
it was friends too  
but uh we all got together for just a party  
and that was kind of fun  
nice to have everybody together at once and things like that  
well   not quite french  
but uh it was sort of a reunion before leaving  
it was fun  
it was on uh new year's day  
so it was almost a celebration of the new year too at the same time  
yeah  
it was kind of fun  
but uh but who was it  
a friend of mine had a big family reunion a couple of years ago  
and you know everybody flew in from all over the place for the weekend  
and it really sounded like it was fun  
but i am not quite sure what i would do  
i think it would be fun to like rent a big mansion or house someplace   and have everybody meet someplace where they do not really know   and have different areas to explore and things like that  
so that would be kind of fun  
yep  
where nobody lives  
but at least that way it is at nobody's house so nobody one no one person is responsible for everything  
yep  
that is for sure  
the cleaning up can be a mess  
but uh do you have horses or anything at your dad's farm  
does does your dad have horses there  
uh_huh  
i see  
so it's  
so he really does use it as a vacation home  
it is not like a farm that he has somebody else run for him or something like that  
uh_huh  
well that sounds nice  
do people actually pick the fruit and things  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i used to   we used to go pick wild blackberries at my friend's property  
but we never got enough  
i used to make jam  
but i never had enough to really make you know more than a jar or something  
so it was not so worth it  
uh_huh  
that sounds  
is  
does he have a lot of land to go walking   around and things there  
well that is pretty big  
i do not know how they do scale down there  
you know here it would be a huge amount of land  
yeah  
because they  
is  
this house here that has a lot of space is three or four acres   as opposed to   tens of acres  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think my dad put some  
we have a little pond at our at his vacation home too  
and  
i mean really little  
and they were having problems with too many goldfish because we had put some goldfish in  
and there were too many little goldfish  
and so the big ones never got bigger  
and uh somebody suggested to get a bass  
and so they went fishing and caught a bass near some place and put it in there and never saw it again  
no  
so we do not know whether it is living  
or  
yep  
we still have lots of little goldfish  
they [propagate] pretty well those little fish  
yeah  
because we started  
we have got hundreds in there now  
and we started with i think ten or twenty little [feeder] fish that i picked up for a dollar you know   no matter how many it was for a dollar  
and   and some of them are probably eight inches long  
but he wants your really big ones you know the ones that get to be like a foot and a half long  
and  
it  
oh okay  
well we would want to put some small ones in so they do not eat the big guys the goldfish too  
but yeah  
we could see  
i do not know if yellow catfish live up this way  
but catfish do i think  
uh_huh  
so that  
you mean  
well we could try it  
that is a good idea  
because he was trying to catch them you know using little uh  
i forget  
there's little uh nets you can use to catch fish to use as [feeder] fish and things like that   [minnow] nets or something  
my father was taking those and trying to catch the goldfish  
and it was really funny  
because uh one time he left the net in the pond  
and he like would put some tuna fish or things in the middle of it to attract the fish  
and uh he left it in the middle of the pond  
and that night he came out and the trap was gone  
and it was a [raccoon] that had taken it  
so it was really funny  
and you could see that you know  
you could see where the trap the trap was dragged and things like that  
and so  
but do you guys have fishing competitions while you are there  
uh   when they are feeding  
uh_huh  
what   do you feed them  
really  
and it is   especially made for catfish  
uh_huh  
that is funny  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have never seen catfish you know except in [filleted] on a plate i think maybe  
i think i have seen once or twice in like the museum  
but i have never seen them   just alive someplace  
that would be fun to see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how big do they get  
okay but how long in feet  
do you know  
that is pretty big though  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds amazing  
i will have to see them sometime  
but all righty  
nice talking   to you too  
enjoy your uh weekend  
okay  
you too  
bye bye  
do you all do you get together with family reunions  
or  
oh that will be fun   if you have   not done it in a while  
uh where is your family from  
oh  
is it  
so you are going to have to go there  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
my family is from kentucky  
most of them is down there  
i have got an uncle in louisiana and another sister here in texas  
we did when i was growing up  
it was every summer we got together  
now my grandmother just passed away this last year  
so you know  
she was  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it   it   sure does  
well we  
in kentucky it wasn't hard because everybody lives so close together  
we just did it word by you know by word of mouth  
you know and uh my uncle in louisiana he is the only one that you know had to travel  
and now i have got a sister in germany  
and   we are just scattered all over the place  
so it is going to be hard this time  
but we have got a huge family  
yeah  
because it is so fun  
i mean   we my mother has got like thirteen brothers and sisters  
yeah  
she has got a huge family  
and every one of them have five or six kids and most of them you know   have got kids  
yeah  
it is  
we just we had two baseball bleachers full of people  
and there are still about eight or six eight or ten people taking pictures  
yes  
and it was just  
the last time we had one it was so fun  
yeah  
yeah  
well i   we have always had ours in a park or something  
but it has away been the same park  
and there is nothing really special there  
only thing is it is big  
and it is open  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
in missouri  
well that was part of the problem with the ones we have  
now the kids would sneak off  
and we were just being kids  
and we found what we thought was just an old water hole  
so we was going swimming  
and like i said we was just big kids  
we was like eight and ten years old  
and our parents came and caught us  
we had been playing in the [sump]  
it was part of the [sewage] cleaning system  
kyle don't  
i have got a four year old  
yeah  
but if we could have gotten it by a lake or something i thought that would have been much better  
yeah  
well they  
there was uh i am sorry there was uh i remember now there was like uh a baby pool   just about a foot deep  
yes  
i remember my little brother riding a bicycle through it  
we were all kids anyway  
oh but i love it all the different foods because that  
yeah  
that's the  
yeah  
so how long did you say it has been since you all had one  
yeah  
well i have been married almost five  
so i guess it has been seven years since we have had one  
and since then we have lost oh well just our grandmother  
that is surprising  
uh_huh  
oh if i can ever get down to kentucky  
it has been like four years since i have been home  
yeah  
that is   the reason that is the reason i don't  
i would get on a bus any day by myself  
but i won't do it with the babies  
because uh i have got uh a four month old and a four year old  
so i am just starting  
and i just quit too  
uh i won't be adding any more to the family reunion  
yeah  
they are good kids though  
so uh i am not too upset  
anyways i have enjoyed talking to you  
all right  
all right you too  
bye bye  
yes  
we try to  
uh we have not in some years now  
and i think we are going to try to have one this summer  
my aunt   is planning it  
uh missouri  
southwest part of missouri  
that will will be where it is uh   if if she gets it planned  
i have been out of town  
so i do not know what she has been doing  
but uh they are all getting very very old  
all my aunts and uncles  
so we need to see them soon  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
do you all get together often  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
i think as   we get older it is more difficult to uh when  
all my aunts and uncles are in their eighties now  
so it is uh  
i have to uh i will probably have to take charge and do it one of these uh one of these uh days  
but uh   i still have elderly parents alive  
so uh it takes a lot of effort to either get everybody called or written and settle on a date you know   that  
and if they are  
right  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
yeah  
so the  
yeah  
and we need to have more and more of them  
i i think i hope that is not a lost art that people getting together as they do spread out all over the world  
yeah  
it is  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
sure that makes a big crowd  
yeah  
is that  
is that right  
that is wonderful  
i hope  
well we need to have another one  
i hope my aunt is successful as uh later  
well it is probably not going to be done because i have not heard from them  
i it was supposed to be this june  
so i do not imagine there is anything coming  
this is hardly almost june  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is  
we have it usually at this uh at this one park because there is a pavilion there in case   it rains  
and uh you have to have it uh fairly early in the summer or it is too hot up there  
in missouri  
yeah  
it is too it is not  
it is just uh very humid  
and the old people cannot take it anymore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
isn't that great  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that keeps you busy  
yeah  
yeah  
it would have been something for the young people   to   to do  
but   uh_huh  
yeah  
every family has all that going on  
i am sure  
so uh  
oh i do too  
that is the best part of it  
everybody   bringing something for a [potluck] picnic  
and oh grand  
yeah  
i do not know  
i think it has been uh four three or four years or five even uh since they have had it tried to get everybody together  
they are just spread out so much  
and and we really need to uh no matter what kind of crowd they get  
i hope  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well time flies so fast  
it may have been that that long since we have one  
it is hard to remember  
but i think it has been about four or five years  
so uh anyway i i hope both our families get to have one soon  
yeah  
it is difficult with little ones  
i know when we had   had our  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh lord  
oh i am telling you  
that is uh  
no  
i hope it i know it takes a lot of effort right with with that with two little ones like that  
yeah  
enjoyed talking to you  
good luck in everything  
bye bye  
do you have annual family reunions  
or  
uh_huh  
all local  
were they like all in dallas  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just from city to city then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you go back  
is it choice or just business  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
do you have brothers and sisters  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and is your mother still living  
oh so so you go back and visit with her anyway  
would you not  
i mean either way there was family reunion time   or not  
relatives  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
the next generation  
uh_huh  
why do you think that it's less close than it used to be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
is that just family's lack of priority anymore maybe yes  
we get so involved in our work lives and just   social lives and so forth  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
it really makes an effort on to   do this anymore  
right  
right  
right  
right  
do you [correspond] with anybody other than your mother and brother that's in that group   on a regular basis not just christmas cards  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
right  
in my my uh father's family we get together every year at a different location either dallas or oklahoma city  
they had chosen santa barbara california for this summer and and did not get enough people that were willing to go that far   because most of us live either in the midwest or like in the texas oklahoma area  
and uh so they [cancelled] that one and uh are looking next year bringing it back closer  
but we have a letter a family letter   that [circulates]  
and it usually goes through me twice a year  
and what you do is take out the last letter you wrote that's on the bottom and put the your new letter on the top  
and then that's the way it's kept in order  
and then about twice a year then you are kept up with what is going on and when you meet them at the reunion you do not feel like i do not know anything about this person  
you have   read something about what is going on and about their children and so forth  
so you are kind of   half way acquainted that way  
and that   that's been a that's been a nice way of keeping us all aware of each other i think  
we tried to start that in my husband's family  
his mother's side decided they were going to have a reunion a couple of years ago  
and i said well let's start this letter  
and it just never  
my husband's sisters started it and sent it to us  
and that's as far as it got  
i sent it   on to the next one  
and and but we are going in a couple of weeks to the next one in [scottsdale] arizona   for that family  
we are real glad we got together because since that that time there were only like two of the one sister and one sister in law of the original family left  
and the sister in law died  
and the sister is in a nursing home  
so we are glad that we took that opportunity two years ago  
okay uh  
uh yeah  
uh our  
the  
my mother's side of the family is quite large or well was quite large at one time  
and uh they uh for as long as i can remember have had uh a yearly reunion um  
back uh early on they used to to rotate them from from to to different people's houses   in the family  
and  
uh no no not no  
this was well i am actually from mississippi  
and   so that's  
it it was around there generally  
uh that's where the family   grew  
yeah  
and it was not only in mississippi in some other places   as well  
so it was uh it was a big deal  
but uh they tried to to [centralize] it in one spot  
so in the past couple of years they had it at a state park every year  
we rent a pavilion and and do that  
and that's usually works out to be pretty good  
and uh they will rent a pavilion on a weekend  
and uh  
i have not gone back lately  
in fact uh this past sunday was the was the reunion  
but i did not get to go  
uh i have  
not getting to go  
uh just uh the distance involved  
and  
uh just not  
i have a younger daughter now  
and uh i  
it's kind of hard to get her get her there   and everything  
but i am going to to uh hopefully next year get to go back cause uh a lot of the family has not uh on her side my mother's side has not seen you know my daughter  
so  
i have one brother  
so  
yes  
right  
yeah  
right i i usually see her a   couple times a year  
so that's no no big thing  
but uh i uh i do i do enjoy the reunions  
the only problem is that now uh originally when we had them uh they were mainly my mother's  
uh father's  
my mother's father's family had quite a few   uh brothers and sisters  
so it was a large reunion of of of that group uh from that descendants  
and uh a lot of those people have  
and at time you know they all knew one another  
and now it has gotten uh that uh a lot of those people are have uh have died off  
or you know what we are left with is the the relatives of of   of that group  
and so uh it's not quite as close as it used to be  
so i think people feel less of a desire to really go  
i know that  
well i i just think that uh you know at that  
when when they were  
you know the those were all brothers and sisters a lot  
and or they were all in the same geographical location  
you know back around you know in the twenties and thirties when they were growing up uh you know they were all located together   in one small community  
and as as time grew i mean when time went on the family grew and moved away and so forth  
and now when they come together it's it's generally you know  
like say the kids of those people who are not you know anywhere near one another and i do not think they feel the the closeness that they used to be there   which is a shame  
but that's just how it is  
my mother was complaining last year about you know  
it's dwindling down every year  
you know that's just i think   that's just  
well yeah  
yeah  
that's uh  
yeah  
i think that's some of it  
but you know i have  
uh i i  
it's just the way you know i think society is now is that we are not we do not have the extensive family we used to  
it's more of a you know a smaller smaller unit  
and you know we we tend to try to do things i think with our immediate family   as opposed to the extended family of people that we may or may not remember or know you know very well  
uh  
right  
it requires a lot of effort to to   to do that sort of thing  
i mean i i used to enjoy going  
i mean i still do kind of enjoy it  
but uh it's it does not it's not as many people there that i really really enjoy seeing  
you know i  
it's going just for the sake of getting together  
i think for the family  
and  
uh  
um um no  
not really  
in that  
but then again uh well i you know i have some aunts that uh i i i do  
that's about  
my mother's sisters   you know  
but i feel closer to them because i kind of grew up with them  
but   but uh as you know for the rest of that group no not really  
uh you know and and generally when i was growing up a lot of those people the only time i ever saw them was at the reunion  
so uh  
you do not really feel that that really close to them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's a good idea  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well  
on my father's side we've really there uh  
on my mother's side we've had several  
not   it's not really on a regular basis  
but usually sometimes every few summers  
well all see all the family lives in once place except for a few of us are scattered about  
so they're pretty much just [reunited] always  
so it's it's just once in a while we get the special gathering with everyone together  
i know  
that's  
do that  
that's true  
how about your family  
wow  
you're   a pro at this  
oh that's good  
and then where do you meet  
okay  
okay  
do you have relatives in vernon   then  
okay  
right  
oh  
right  
oh  
right  
okay  
so this town hall that you meet in is that like a um  
okay  
potato salad and uh  
oh that's good  
right  
right  
oh that's nice  
right  
do they always have the the one person in the family who knows or everyone thinks they know how to make this the best   so that's what they get to cook  
well that's good  
well i had a professor in [anthropology] at school who studied family reunions  
so i learned a lot about them  
i haven't   been to a lot  
but we talked   a lot about the the [rituals]  
you all [equated] the family reunions as   with the protestant  
it was the protestant version of the catholic pilgrimage  
it was it was an interesting theory  
she talked about the uh the catholics  
all it's a home centered you know it's all family centered anyway  
so you usually are living where your parents live  
and it's all  
your you don't have to come home  
so the catholics would make a pilgrimage in older europe  
but when the protestant ethic happened in america there were people who ever went out and you know went away from the family to seek their fortune and then had to come back home for their reunion so that   became their version of the pilgrimage  
but she had  
it was interesting you know  
i don't know how valid it is  
but she talked about that and how the the big picnic table was the symbolic [communion] of the people gathering together and um you know about the bread and the ritual placement  
do you have a a certain way that everything is placed out on the table every every year  
is there kind of a you know  
salads go first and things like that  
right  
well that's pretty  
sure does  
that's wonderful  
yeah  
i wish we'd  
right  
right  
wow  
you're just uh  
oh that's incredible  
right  
right  
have you have you done this [repetitively] or just once  
oh  
see that's  
we've we had a problem with that  
oh  
right  
that's our was our problem  
we had uh the first reunion or the first you know major reunion was probably six or seven years ago  
and then the second reunion people who maybe you know had sacrificed things to come to the first one thought oh well it's not that big a   thing this year  
and so it kind of wound down  
and then finally you know you're lucky to get you know you get the shreveport relatives there but no one else  
so that  
does your family normally have a reunion  
do you have one  
that's been  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well it might be a good time for you to to to start a tradition  
you could be responsible for that yourself  
sure  
well in my family let's see last october was the forty fifth annual   uh reunion  
the first sunday in october the jordan family gets together  
and all of the descendants of the civil war i mean yeah the civil war veterans come together  
and they come as far away from california  
and there's usually oh between a hundred and fifty and two hundred and fifty people  
uh there's a big community hall in vernon   texas  
and uh that seems to be sort of a middle ground for all of the texas family  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
a lot of the older family lives in vernon  
um all of his direct descendants descendants have now died  
and the grandchildren are in their seventies and eighties  
so we're talking about second and third great children here  
uh i take my boys well i took them up until this year  
they're grown and gone from home now  
so they they take their family  
but uh let's see  
that would make them grandfather great grandfather great great grandfather  
okay  
so it would be the second great [grandchild]  
and so they  
well it's a community center it's a community hall  
it's   a great big open building that has a wonderful kitchen it in  
and uh you just bring the covered dishes  
every every family brings a a dish of some kind  
and you get all the wonderful old family recipes   that have been handed   down for years  
well we try to stay away from those things which might have uh [salmonella] in them  
and we choose to bring [congealed] salad  
you can bring a [congealed] vegetable salad   as opposed to potato salad  
and we are very conscious of most of us are very conscious of of uh sanitation aspects   whatever you've got to carry for any distance  
i always   take home baked bread  
uh that happens to be my specialty for that family  
i do other things very well  
but there are others in the family who do them better  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well it's uh  
we have uh uh kind of a core group that that serves as quote officers of the organization  
and they plan the reunions  
the organize the you know who is going to see to it that the coffee pot gets there who's going to rent the tables who's going to see to it that the [silverware] gets turned back to the [caterer]  
uh and each year it's done a little bit differently because different people serve in those roles  
we have a [biographer] who who continues every year to save clippings on any family member  
and they're entered into a a wonderful uh scrap book and pictures of new babies and new people who have been added and and [obituaries] to those who are gone  
and it keeps the family alive   even you know even though it's very fluid  
and they're very dedicated to that  
and uh it's been really wonderful  
it helps you hang onto your roots  
and it helps you feel a strong sense of belonging  
my husband on the other hand was not very close to his family  
his family was very scattered and very diverse  
and i asked him i got to talking to him  
i said well how is his nephew doing  
well i don't know  
i haven't   talked to my brother in three years  
i said well how's your brother doing  
i don't know  
uh you know my son keeps in touch with him i think  
but i don't  
i said hey wouldn't you like to know what's happening with these people  
yeah  
but i'm you know  
it's too much trouble  
so i got busy got together and put a reunion together for his family   and [succeeded] in getting all of his brothers and sisters and all of their [offspring] but one   to our place down at lake tawakoni  
liked to kill me because i it was i didn't have that group cooperation  
i did   it by myself  
and uh nobody brought covered dishes  
we had a great big fish fry  
and you know i fixed a salad in a number three tub  
and and uh it was an enormous task to bring all of those people together with just one or two people helping  
and uh we had to provide sleeping arrangements for all of them  
and i told him  
we did it that year  
and then the following summer we did not have all of the family there  
we sent [invitations]  
we said please let us know if you're coming  
it was when uh his mother his step father had died the year before  
and it  
his mother was alone and so they came to support her  
and then one by one his you know his sisters he began to lose family members  
and it was difficult to hold them together  
and then of course he died two years ago  
so you know that family has gone down to one brother and one sister now  
and uh it  
i think that's what happens when they get scattered  
the the family unit you know falls   into [disrepair]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well see we manage those people who are at that core group manage to keep keep the [vigor] alive  
they'll send out news [bulletins]  
two or three times a year you'll get a news  
hey guess who got you know elected to the legislature  
or guess who our local sheriff  
okay  
well this is a very timely topic [inasmuch] as we're going to a family reunion this weekend  
yeah  
down at lake texoma lodge  
yes  
this is one that's uh the baker family reunion  
and this has been going on at least uh i would say at least twenty five years or thirty   something like that  
maybe longer than that i'm going to get back into the fifties sometime  
first time i i married into the family  
and the first time i went was about fifty seven i think  
but uh this one has been well organized  
and in fact it used to be at lake brownwood  
and now it's lake texoma because that's more central location   for people from oklahoma and texas to come to  
very important because uh you'll start losing people if it's too far to go  
yeah  
never get them at both places  
right  
well listen they've uh they've had this one  
well it just  
of course over the years it has uh built up as far as the organization is concerned  
but now they uh have a golf tournament on the saturday  
and then they have generally a show or an auction or something on saturday night to help raise funds to cover the costs of such  
yeah  
and uh everyone uh they get the community building there at lake texoma lodge  
and everyone brings in food  
and then for the saturday night dinner they bring in like kentucky fried chicken from durant  
and uh   it really uh has worked out  
uh generally uh i think it's been as high as about a hundred and twenty people  
i think [normal's] about sixty or seventy  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
well our family reunion started out my wife  
and i were the kids the newlyweds so to speak  
and now we go our children go  
and our grandchildren are going now  
so it's uh wound up that uh we're the old folks now  
but um they have various organized  
they have generally a volleyball net set up and [horseshoes] uh to pitch  
and they organize a baseball game for the kids  
and several people bring boats  
and there's a place they they take the kids up to the lodge and go swimming up there in the afternoon  
so it   it's a full day  
some of the people   come down on friday afternoon and spend the whole weekend  
and some just come in for saturday  
so it uh has worked out quite well  
and it's a chance to see some of the relatives you don't see all year long   except that once a year  
yeah  
my side of the family is from back in ohio and west virginia  
and i think we've been to one in thirty five years or something like that  
so   that's just too far away  
yeah  
it's an   all day drive just to get to this area  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we have  
each year of course they elect officers of the family reunion  
and a number of years ago back in the early eighties my wife was president  
we discovered how much work it is just to organize and get it together   and it takes a lot of planning   and [assembling] of stuff  
right  
that's correct  
yes  
it is  
i tell you  
i don't really care for her to be president again  
but that is uh it's it's a lot of work  
but it's a lot of fun  
we've enjoyed it  
and   the grandkids really enjoy it because it's the only time of the year they see all their cousins from oklahoma  
yeah  
and this year they're all excited  
the show this weekend  
this [weekend's] going to be a rock and roll show  
my two grandsons and one of their cousins are are going to dress up and [lip] sing to a rock song   you know in jeans and t shirts and such  
so it's uh it's going to be exciting for them and for us too  
oh yes  
there have been some really wild shows put on there  
they uh really get uh into it  
yeah  
well   oh that generally happens  
yeah  
yeah  
well we've uh had various things over the years uh to raise funds for it  
and again it's not it's not cheap to rent the lodge up there   or the meeting room down in the cabins and such  
but uh   they've come up with  
they've tried passing the hat  
and they've had [auctions] and various things to raise funds  
and uh   some people do  
and some people don't  
excuse me but um anyway that's the family reunion story  
okay  
been nice talking to you  
bye  
yes  
oh are you really  
where is it going to be  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh that's   marvelous  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure [location's] really important as far as figuring out where one ought to be  
uh_huh  
we have factions when it's one part  
we i have one reunion on my mother's side  
and we found that if it's in a certain part of texas some people come  
and if it's elsewhere other people come  
we never get them at both of them  
it seems like  
so i think we need to find a new place  
uh_huh  
um  
oh that's a neat idea  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how many people jim are involved  
wow  
yeah  
well i guess um ours probably isn't that big  
our family is dwindling for one thing  
and i often feel funny because i'm in a branch that's all but died  
i just have one aunt and my family  
so sometimes when these other families get together they're really pulling in aunts and uncles and   grandkids  
and we're kind of off on the [sidelines]  
but it does remind us that we have family and roots  
so we keep going even though we're not a real big part of it  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so there's lots to do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
well that's neat  
i think think they're really fun  
we go to mine regularly  
and then we go to my husband's occasionally down in temple  
and he has a large family  
so it's it's fun when we go to that one  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
that that is a problem with the distance  
the people that we have that don't come are out el paso way  
and it's just too much for all of them   all of that group to travel  
right  
but then we have the same attitude when it's out   there although this year we're going out  
they're going to have it at fort davis  
and we thought that would be fun to kind of tie it in as a vacation time   as well as reunion  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and choose   some place that everybody's going to like   as far as food and all that  
that's a heavy burden  
no  
uh_huh  
well i think  
yeah  
and it's it's good for kids to know that they have other family  
oh boy  
oh what fun  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
probably lots of laughs  
uh_huh  
well it sounds like you really have a good structure and have it going along  
ours ours is still kind of [loosely] organized  
and   the same people usually get stuck with doing it  
and   they do it as a labor of love  
so the officer idea is a good idea  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and it's not fair that everybody not contribute  
uh_huh  
well thanks a lot i enjoyed talking to you  
bye  
yes  
just this last summer we went back to utah  
and we met it was my  
we usually go to my family reunion  
but this one was my husband's  
and they're usually quite similar i think  
no  
he's from here  
but uh most of his people are from oregon  
so we kind of met halfway  
and so this was one  
and they um planned it up in the mountains and got a cabin   and had you know  
things like that have to be planned  
like they had planned  
that we went to the reunion in end of june and first of july   that part   the fourth of july weekend  
but we had to plan everything like clear in december january   to reserve that  
uh_huh  
no  
this was everybody  
oh i oh i jeez i think over um three hundred   were there  
it was quite a large  
it was a great big lodge  
and so we had plenty of room and everything  
and some of them live in that area  
so it wasn't too hard for them to come in the day and leave  
but um that was a great big thing  
and we do that with his family about every five years   a great big one  
and then like immediate family we do like we try to do one thing once a year  
well he has eight brothers and sisters  
so that's big by itself  
yeah  
so we have a little [shindig] with them  
um   they're close in a close [proximity]  
um let's see  
there are four of them who live here in texas and his mom and dad  
so um the others live in close neighboring um states like nevada arizona   i think like that  
yeah  
so it's been fun  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's hard  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it really is fun  
and my mom's family does it once a year just like you said  
once a year um they have a a a wednesday through a a saturday type thing  
you can come and go as you please type thing  
and they do that once a year  
i kind of missed it this year and felt bad  
but you can't go every year  
you just   cannot do that  
um  
um basically they just stay with each other brothers or sisters  
there are enough in the area to to just kind of span yourself out  
whoever's mom and dad it is you usually go and stay with them  
like i go stay with my mother  
and my cousins they just go stay with their mom and dad you know   kind of thing  
and so it's not hard in in that respect because they all are pretty centralized in one utah area  
so that's not hard  
but   the real planning that's the real key  
and they send out  
my mom's family now  
this is the first reunion with my husband's family i've really been involved with  
but my mom's family each brother and sister takes a turn one year  
and that's how they divide it up  
and then   um she has ten in that family  
and each one of them take their turn  
and then the the parent who's turn it is the child whose turn it is   her children help her  
like if it was my mother's turn   all of us children would help her   put it on   kind of thing  
yeah  
and um the thing is that um the the real part is there are two mailings that go out  
and the first one is to just kind of give an [approximate] date and time so you can start making  
hi [clarice]  
um have you had a family reunion recently  
uh_huh  
are you both from utah originally  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh how nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
now was this his entire family cousins aunts uncles   like that or his immediate family  
oh wow  
oh wow  
how many people were there  
wow  
wow  
uh_huh  
oh that's   wonderful oh  
now how many how many people are in his immediate family  
oh wow  
wow  
it really is  
and you get together once a year  
wow  
are they all here in the area  
or are they   scattered  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
that's wonderful  
well we don't really get together  
i i would love to  
and that's why i checked that i wanted to do that because i would love to plan a family reunion sometime  
um i have a sister in colorado and uh a sister in upstate new york and a sister in connecticut and here i am in texas  
so we're kind of scattered right now  
and uh my my cousins have a you know they put on a family reunion um once a year  
but it's always like the second week in september  
so it's  
the kids are already back in school  
and so and that's back in the  
and that's in new york  
and there's no way i mean there's   just no possible way  
and it's not really a weekend  
it's just like a day kind of thing because most of them are you know um  
my family moved to connecticut  
the rest of the family stayed in new york   and uh on long island  
and so they're all kind of local and close  
and so they just have a you know a day picnic  
and uh i've always thought it would be so neat even if it were just my immediate family to have like a weekend type thing  
that would be so wonderful  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and do they they have a hotel  
or where do you stay  
take everybody  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that sounds so wonderful  
isn't that nice  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but then one brother and sister from each family  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i see uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
how would you go about organizing a family reunion  
oh gee  
oh my  
uh_huh  
yes  
with all of you living so close together  
oh  
well i come from a very small family  
and we planned a family reunion this spring uh where we are from texas  
and my family is from ohio  
and we met in florida  
so the seven of us went on a cruise and then went to disney together  
so that's all the family  
so planning our family reunion was very easy you know  
yeah  
well we had a wonderful  
well  
for  
i grew up in the deep south like south alabama  
so whenever i think of family reunions  
my family like got together almost every week  
and there would be like thirty people  
so people talk about you know big family reunions  
and i think like  
i have a friend who just went to like wyoming to some big ranch you know where like there were four hundred people   for their family reunion  
and i  
so i mean how i would go about doing it is i would just call all my relatives  
because i since i came from  
my father has uh five sisters and two brothers  
and my mother has four brothers and two sisters  
so i  
both of my parents had big families  
and we always we always got together just always  
now it's different because i live here  
and i  
you know when i go home i try to see the families as much of the family as i can  
but   it's real different  
and i grew up in a real not i think not normal setting  
right  
i mean sunday dinner was at my grandmother's  
and you know like i said there would be thirty you know thirty people  
and everyone would just bring things  
and   my grandmother would cook and cook and cook  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess so  
it really sounds like it was fun  
okay um  
do you participate in family reunions  
uh_huh  
did you uh  
were they far away  
were they close  
uh_huh  
oh how neat  
uh_huh  
oh that would be fun  
yeah  
well we uh we have a family reunion on my mother's side of the family that's uh-oh  
it started probably about forty years ago uh because i remember going as a teenager before i was ever married  
and then my husband and i went uh while we were still dating  
and it's still going on  
and it used to be held at lake brownwood down at brownwood texas  
but now we hold it at uh lake texoma so that the oklahoma group doesn't have to drive as far  
and uh we have had as many on a saturday night  
it starts on friday and goes through sunday  
and we've had as many on a uh saturday night as about two hundred and fifty  
uh_huh  
yes  
and we took uh  
our family all brought in food and everything  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i know on sundays we all elect now to chip in  
and we go get kentucky   fried chicken and bring out  
and uh but we kind of take our food for three days  
and uh now our grandchildren are participating in it  
and   just love that they have all this little batch of cousins that they get to see   about once a year  
enthused and with it  
and our children you know thoroughly enjoy it  
so it's been kind of nice  
it started out when i was a youngster and watching my mother  
now i'm to the mother was  
and uh i am uh now the older generation and doing more of the cooking and watching my daughter   you know more and everything  
and uh  
oh my word  
oh uh_huh  
oh are they  
get together any more  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think i do think now we have noticed a [waning] of interest  
and i think as as parents get older and start dying off i think sometimes it is hard to keep the interest going  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you probably do good just to get your immediate family together  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
they're a lot of fun  
well my  
i have a sister  
and then we have a son and a daughter  
and we have three grandchildren  
and our son and daughter are both married  
and uh our son's not as interested in it as our daughter  
but our daughter our daughter is really interested  
and uh  
i beg you pardon  
oh a little bit  
i i wish that our son was   you know  
and uh but uh the cousins are closer to our daughter's age and than to our son's and just totally different   interest group  
and plus  
and he's just he's newly married and doesn't have children  
and you know i'm hoping   that as they you know are   married a little bit longer and have children that they may be more inclined   to want to go you know to it  
i know that  
well talk to them about it and you know tell them some of the things we're doing  
now when he was a uh a young oh preteen you know when he was like ten or twelve   he loved going  
he had another cousin he was close to and went  
but that cousin kind of quit going  
and as he got to be a teenager uh he wasn't quite as as interested  
he was more interested in rock and roll  
and this is more country western group  
and uh just lack of interest  
i did for years  
i don't have enough family left to have them  
but  
well i come from a family that was very large in bell county  
and and my grandfather came to bell county on a covered wagon   and had ten children  
and so sometimes we would have a reunion with that group  
and then sometimes we would go to arkansas where they came from and have a reunion with the entire group you know  
yeah  
it was a lot of fun  
uh_huh  
um now we would have group like that in arkansas  
we'd have two hundred and fifty or three hundred  
well so many of us came from a long way that we we'd usually at a motel  
and we bought food there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it's something i really miss because i had twenty seven first cousins  
and you know we were very close family  
but our father's generation was enough older than i  
my father would be a hundred now   that they're all dead  
and in fact many of my first cousins are dead  
and of course they have their own families and grandchildren and all that  
so we really very rarely all of us get together  
and and we're a long way away  
and and the younger generation the next like my cousin's children i don't know very well you know  
but it  
so it's  
i doubt that that will come to be again  
but as long as my oldest aunt lived we we got together once a year  
well and and folks have gotten so mobile  
i mean like i have a son and a daughter and two nephews that are grown   and a brother who has a new marriage and a younger son  
but my brother and his wife live in nevada my daughter lives in colorado one of my nephews lives in new york city one nephew lives in memphis   and my son lives here  
but i think it's very unlikely we'll have a family reunion you know  
yeah  
and i'm divorced  
and really only immediate family i have left is my my  
i have a son and a daughter  
but my family's really all dead  
but it was great pleasure while we did it you know  
uh_huh  
does it bother you if your children are not interested in it  
does it bother you if your children are not interested in it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what kinds of things do you do to try to get your children interested  
just talk to them about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hi  
i'm carol  
and i'm calling from garland texas  
oh okay  
because yesterday i talked to someone upstate i'm not even sure where  
and my husband talked to the people in utah  
so um anyway let me press one  
okay um  
let me see i think we've only planned one family reunion in our life  
so   we don't do this too often  
um most of my family's in california  
but my husband's is in san antonio  
and so we did this in san antonio  
and um it was an experience that i i won't do again  
um well it wasn't that big of a family  
but um it just got out of hand  
and um so many people were coming that we were trying to figure out how much food we were going to need and and um how much um [beverages] we were going to need and this and that  
and oh it just grew and grew and grew  
and um when the time came only about half that amount of people came  
so it wasn't you know  
you have to really just get an accurate amount  
and  
but overall we all had a good time  
we saw people we hadn't see in a while  
so  
no  
it was all in the san antonio area  
but it it just kept growing and growing and growing and growing  
and we're going oh my gosh  
so  
uh_huh  
basically  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think you're right  
yeah  
your family's from where  
oh no  
uh_huh  
oh those are nice  
and i'm i'm sure they're a lot more organized too because they've done it before  
that's great  
oh  
yeah  
that makes a big difference too  
i know everybody's real eager to participate  
yeah  
well that's great  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
more people want to come back again  
yeah  
that's good  
my uh my grandmother in california is um  
this is my dad's part side of the family is planning a reunion um this spring  
but we won't be going because um i don't know how they thought of this it's going to be on a cruise  
and um it seems like most of the family is uh going you know all the nieces and all the grandchildren and all that are most of them are going  
but it's too costly for us  
but anyway they're going to go on a cruise  
and um it sounds really neat it really does  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and a friend of mine um she plans her family reunion um every year  
and they go camping  
and she says they have the greatest time  
and she says usually everybody shows up in exception to maybe one person  
but she said they all go camping  
and they have a really good for the whole weekend  
so that's  
yeah  
yeah  
right now we only have two children  
so i  
hi  
yeah  
this is  
i'm in dallas  
okay  
i  
how big a family do you have  
did you have people coming from far away  
well sometimes  
well you have you have  
the family lives too close together they see each other too often   they don't take that kind of thing seriously  
and if uh   uh they come from far away it's uh it it they take it more seriously  
and  
yeah  
my family's not very big  
but uh we're kind of  
well i have a a a brother lives in indianapolis a sister lives in chicago and my folks live back in buffalo new york  
uh i guess we have reunions about once a year or so  
we got together over christmas  
my wife's family they're they're all in  
most of them are in upstate new york  
they have regular uh regular family reunions every summer  
yeah  
it is  
yeah  
and it's it's just something that they they plan on doing every summer  
they just have   a weekend picnic  
and every year everyone asks   when is it happening and where is it happening  
and they just plan on being here  
yeah  
they they had a family reunion for uh well for my mother in law at her seventy fifth birthday  
and they managed to get just about everybody everybody into town uh last november   including a number of people from out in california  
so it was a it was good it uh   it worked out very well  
one interesting thing that they did at the time is they um they videotaped the the whole [shebang]   which it made a nice [remembrance] of of the entire party  
yeah  
they want to come back  
so so that that works pretty well that way  
yeah  
i i can go for that  
what  
what do  
i guess interesting if you had a a a very extended family that that kind of involved a lot of people that   cousins and things that you don't really know that you've never met it'd be interesting to meet a lot of those people  
uh i don't know how you would go about uh getting them together  
but that that would be uh  
yeah  
i kind of wonder what what kind of tradition we're going to establish for our family  
i had hoped that our our kids get together at least regularly  
your family have reunions on a regular basis  
once every five years  
yeah  
uh you have got a pretty big family  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we have a pretty big family  
but most of us  
well uh uh i am originally from west virginia  
most of the family is right in the west virginia uh uh what they call [tri] state area uh northern west virginia eastern ohio southwestern pennsylvania  
most everybody is right in that area  
yeah  
yeah  
they put one together for our family about once every june  
it was on my grandmother's birthday  
but she is she is gone now  
yeah  
uh  
oh  
pardon  
well no  
there is kind of a set pattern to it  
there is uh  
so uh the day it happens is ninety eight percent of the planning usually  
yeah  
uh we uh get together at the uh the park uh the uh the park and playground area of the church i was raised in  
and uh everybody brings lots of food  
and some put up the volleyball net and sit around and tell stories and catch up and play volleyball all day and get really fat  
oh gosh  
yeah  
schedule vacation time  
and yeah  
we  
uh sat uh sunday afternoon   or uh sometimes it has been like on a saturday afternoon  
usually it is like sunday afternoon  
and most people do not have more than you know a couple of hours drive at tops   to get there and back  
well where i am calling from is southern mississippi  
so we have got uh uh my wife and i have uh a bit longer ways to go than most  
uh actually we we have only made one of them since we got married about four years ago   one of the family reunions  
but we are both in school  
so that makes it kind of tough  
they usually uh they have been happening uh just after the summer semester starts  
usually not  
we managed to get to one  
that was before i started school  
and she took that summer off  
but uh  
oh goodness  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i understand  
where is home for you  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well maybe this year you can find a more central location  
oh okay  
then the majority of them are still in the missouri area  
okay  
you know our family right now uh the most of it there is only a few stragglers uh with any distance  
there is one cousin out in colorado uh uh some cousins over in phoenix uh  
i got a sister over in in uh washington state  
uh the rest of them are within you know a couple hours drive  
that is pretty much it  
yeah  
it is going to be such and such uh weekend  
and uh you all come  
that is about it  
and you know this is the standard pattern  
it uh  
everybody brings their favorite dish  
and somebody brings the volleyball net  
somebody brings a whole lot of ice for the watermelon  
and  
am i related to you  
yeah  
i married your cousin's brother's uncle or something like that  
uh yeah  
every year  
and uh still you wind up meeting people you uh you never knew you were related to let alone  
and  
oh yeah  
okay  
probably once every five years  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and that is the hardest part about getting the the stuff together  
and everyone is spread out all over [timbuktu]  
and you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that makes it a lot easier  
a lot more convenient  
that is why we only do it once every five or ten years  

because it is always that hard to get everyone together  
yeah  
see that is kind of what happened with ours  
that is why we have not had one in a long time  
so so to make one successful i mean i mean what do you all do  
do you all just start planning real far ahead of time  
uh do you all start planning real far ahead of time  
oh really  
yeah  
eat a lot  
it is a lot harder for us because we are like i said we are spread out  
and so we have to plan anywhere from six well really probably a year ahead of time so that everyone can uh start their uh vacation time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
is that one of your uh  
i mean uh  
but you also manage to make them  
yeah  
yeah  
you can't really get away  
well now that we have been talking about it i uh i am kind of getting home sick now  
because it has been over three years since i have been home   to see my grandparents  
well my my grandfather is the only one that is still around  
and see my grandmother is the one that use to plan this stuff basically  
so unless the aunts and uncles really get on the ball and put stuff together it is kind of like  
she was like the glue  
so  
originally uh i uh was born in missouri  
but uh you know we have relatives scattered out all over louisiana mississippi uh here in texas  
but it is harder for everyone to get in get home  
well but the majority of them are in like just like how you said in close close quarters  
so it is easier for us few stragglers to go home  
yeah  
well uh how do you all communicate like to plan it and every thing  
do you all just call each other up on the phone and say this is the weekend we are going to do it  
or do you all like mail out stuff  
yeah  
well uh uh i guess probably the last one i went to i met so many people that i had not seen in probably ten over ten years  
it was like don't you remember me  
and i am like no  
yeah  
i know  
do you  
i mean is that since  
i mean do you have them every year  

yeah  
well i think that is probably why our is probably so interesting is cause we don't have them that often  
and then when we do and everyone finally does get together  
it is like after the you know  
yeah  
i at first i  
it took eight times to find you  

so i told my husband uh you know  
what should i say  
and then he reminded me  
but uh uh in his family uh what they usually do on his dad's side his mom or uh the aunts will send out little [postcards] like two or three weeks before reminding everyone where the the where to meet and you know just to bring anything  
and so they just [notify] everyone by mail  
and then they just meet at like a park or something to have like a a short uh or a small uh dinner type thing  
uh they come from well they all meet in portland  
and they come as far as oh seattle  
and and sometimes we've gone  
and we were we were living in utah at the time  
and uh the his his dad's family is all around the area  
and his mom's side of the family they all uh have their family reunions in southern utah  
and people would come from seattle to there and uh let's see nevada and in that area washington and nevada to southern utah  
and they would uh assign a different person each time they had a reunion they'd assign a different person to be in charge of [notifying] everybody  
yeah  
yeah  
and the people who are down there like they'll assign one person in the utah area one person in the washington area  
and that person can call you know beforehand and just make sure everyone knows too  
and then they just sort of do like a little program or you know something like that so   that everyone's sort of involved  
oh well that's my husband's side and my mom my mom's or my family uh  
we all live in southern california  
so we just have to either or   give a formal invite  
and we're all there  
so  
yeah  
well i mean l a orange county area  
i mean   everyone's you know   mostly not farther than an hour away  
uh_huh  
oh  
wow  
well you know that's interesting because one thing that always brings to my uh husband's mother's side together is uh they talk about the genealogy of the family tree every time  
and uh inevitably everyone is just very interested  
and and they always have you know two or three new ones to add to the list you know someone's been born or   someone passed away or you know something like that  
and so everyone has to update their little   books or whatever  
uh i do but not to very much compared to my   mother in law  
um  
oh  
really  
is it your your [grandma's] own [sibling]  
and she  
oh i see  
oh so  
well maybe uh they just moved away and then sort of lost contact  
well this is an unusual topic  
what do you think about it  
well that sounds great ellen  
how far away do they come from  
oh okay  
oh okay  
that makes sense  
nobody's out of a lot of trouble more than once  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's interesting  
you sound like you've had a lot of experience with this then  
southern [california's] still pretty large  
i see  

yeah  
well my experience uh has been limited pretty much lately to my mother's side of the family  
uh years ago there was a big dispute on my dad's side  
and uh they haven't had a reunion since then  
they just show up at [funerals] and weddings  
it was pretty serious and lot of yelling   and all that  
but anyway my mother's side we had our our first real reunion that i've ever gone to last summer  
and they had people come in from out of town  
and they took some rooms down at a holiday inn  
and uh they had some activity  
they had a nice dinner planned and all of that stuff  
and people got up and talked about various parts of the family tree  
and you know a lot of that sort of thing  
since it was the first one that we'd had that you could do that once  
now next time we have one  
we'll have to think of something more creative to do  
oh  
well have   have you do you have an interest in genealogy  
not a   passion huh  
uh i suspect we'll do quite a bit more genealogy  
and i i suspect we will do more of it  
uh i found out some about some of the relatives i didn't you know i i didn't even know their names some of the   two or three generations back and some of the aunts and uncles  
and uh there's a lot of things there you have to stop  
their really kind of fascinating  
i found out my grandmother was one of a twin  
and we don't even know where the twin  
we have virtually no no background on on her   on the twin  
my grandmother's uh sister who would be somewhere in in west virginia  
i'm sure she's you know dead now because my grandmother died in about twenty years ago  
i'm i'm quite a bit i'm probably a lot older than you are uh  
i don't know  
i pressed the button one  
so we're recording right now  
i'm sorry  
okay  
and i'm [melanie] from [harrisville] utah  
yeah  
um okay  
bill we're talking about family reunions  
okay um  
have you ever had to plan a family reunion  
oh  
uh_huh  
and how did you feel it went  
oh  
all this planning and and getting together and such  
um oh let's see what else  
uh_huh  
oh boy  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
well what did you find was most helpful in planning the birthday get together  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
and then did you have a main meal  
or did everyone just bring  
it was just pot luck  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
show off a little bit  
oh  
oh  
now how old is she  
oh goodness  
is she pretty [spry] is she you know pretty  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that's neat that she's in good health and that at that age  
yeah  
really  
well that sounds fun  
well i i had a real challenge of planning a family reunion a few years ago  
and there were  
we sent out five hundred uh [announcements] because our family is quite large like your your family there  
and so that was a real challenge  
and i was president of our family reunion for two years  
and i wasn't very at that duty for two years in a row  
but i found that advance planning was the key to success  
uh_huh  
oh that's wonderful though  
oh  
oh well that is that is helpful  
yeah  
our family ranges from oh goodness well australia  
i have a brother lives in australia to uh boise idaho and and uh all kinds of places  
we are  
oh  
in  
oh  
uh_huh  
boy  
oh my gosh  
they must really like it there  
yeah  
oh  
oh you're ready to move on to  
hello  
that's okay  
i'm bill from raleigh  
oh another one from a different state besides texas  
right  
uh yes  
and no  
it wasn't really a a planning one  
but it was kind of uh it was a birthday  
and i brought a lot of family together then  
it went pretty good  
i'm i've worked in hotels  
so i i kind of know how to do these things  
i used to you know  
usually when we have kind of our family reunion it's my grandmother's birthday  
and   and it's all of like she she comes from a big family  
she has like seven sisters i think  
they show up and all their kids  
and then all she has uh  
i have like uh  
let's see  
she has four sons and two daughters  
and   they show up and all their kids  
so it's a pretty big reunion  
it's about two hundred people maybe  
um the probably the biggest challenge was getting a place where everyone you know could eat comfortably and and everything uh  
i guess probably the most helpful thing was that um for the rent we rented like a a rescue squad building or something   like that  
and uh each one of the everybody that showed up donated some money for the rent and for for like soft drinks  
and   and so nobody like really got stuck with the bill  
and each person in the family you know brought a dish or something  
it was kind of pot luck  
you know everybody brought their specialties i guess you would say  
yeah  
and of course my grandmother's food was as always gone first   because she's such a great cook  
uh she's eighty six  
now she does  
she looks probably like she's in her early sixties  
and if she didn't have arthritis she'd get around better   than me as a matter of fact  
oh yeah  
my [nickname] for her is honey woman  
that's what i call her  
uh also one thing that's helpful  
and i don't know if your family's spread out or whatever  
but most of all my family lives like in the same county  
so  
but it's just kind of like get on the telephone  
and   it's so and such days from such and such date  
and everybody just shows up  
i would say you're spread out then  
uh my immediate family you know my my parents and my brothers and sisters i guess we're the ones that have the [gypsy] blood or whatever  
because my dad was in the army  
and we're   we're pretty strung out all over  
but since they've moved back to carolina's we still are the only ones do not live in   in [yantsen] county  
i live in raleigh  
and then my my parents live in greenville  
and i have one brother and his wife   live in greenville and uh another brother that lives in outside of fayetteville  
so i mean we're we're spread out  
but   everybody else is centralized in in my home town [waynesboro]  
so  
nobody moves away except us  
yeah  
i got out as soon as i graduated  
just like this town is too small for me  
good bye  
okay
have you been able to enjoy some family reunions in the past that you'd like to discuss or
wow
that's a that's great
uh_huh
i imagine it would be with seven seven brothers and sisters
we
oh how nice
oh okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh dear
oh dear
i hope not
uh_huh
i bet he really enjoyed that
well that's fantastic
that's fantastic
well we uh we're all scattered around the country
i have a brother in chicago one in cleveland i have two in germany and my sister we're from a large family also my sister is pretty close to my parents and uh my wife and i luckily came from the same hometown
and her her family is scattered all over also
so what we try to do when we have family reunions
we schedule at the same time every year
and we all kind of [migrate] back to where mom and dad are from which is in uh northern utah and so we kind of make sure that we schedule it the same time
and we all head back about that same time and things that we do to make it memorable are that we go to a a resort either go water skiing horseback riding we make it a week long affair and uh have a real nice vacation another reunion we do is uh at christmas time
this is something that a tradition that my grandparents started
and we all get together around christmas time
the first the saturday right before christmas unless it's either christmas eve or a day or two before
and that's uh the week prior to that
and the the amazing thing is
we've had the same santa claus
and his wife have come for the last twenty six years
and so you know growing up as a kid that was always santa claus
and he was the same santa claus year after year after year
and it really made a very very pleasant and memorable and we all [exchanged] gifts as as family and and we got to a point where we were all growing up
and we decided to have white elephant so
excuse me
i think one of the the main thing is just being able to get together and coordinate everyone's schedule that uh i find somewhat frustrating
and and hectic
but as long as we've uh announced it ahead of time and sent out [flyers] and let everyone know when we're going to get together
and what we'll be doing is it's always been very very fun
and i've always enjoyed it
and uh we're very family oriented people and uh that uh makes it more special or more interesting
especially when you have family from you know scattered all over the world then you can get together and discuss how their lives are
and the different parts of the country too
so
uh_huh
wow
wow
yes
yes
it's it's not always easy
but it's it's very memorable boy i bet that's hard because i imagine that as a large family
you were very close
and and uh had a lot of fun as family
so
now we're ready
yeah
i had a a family reunion this past year first time in many many years
and i had uh three of my sisters there with their family and we all got together in [gatlinburg] tennessee
and spent the week there up in the mountains and rented a little little little house and sort of visited and got to know each other
we hadn't been been around each other
for quite a while over the years
so it really was sort of nice
well it worked out fairly well you know as a kid i don't know about yourself
but we used to have big reunions
and it's so nice
and and you know it's just something that you don't do anymore
and uh we had such a good time that that we're already deciding to have one in two years say in disneyworld or somewhere in florida just get together
and just something you need to make time for
yes
we are we're sort of uh we're in texas
and i have sisters in north carolina west virginia virginia
florida everywhere
so we're just so we don't get to see each other very often
sure
well that's great
uh_huh
oh that's neat
which you're in a great area for it
uh a lot of people do that
but we're just not that
well organized
everyone's heading different directions
so it's very hard to get together
sure
that's the important thing just to the important thing is to do it
and that's great
oh you bet
it's been mostly my sisters and brothers
right now
but as far as cousins we haven't done that
like i said before it's god in just forever
i don't know how we'd ever get all of our cousins together
you know
it's like it's like high school high school and college reunions
uh i didn't go
i i just turned fifty years old recently
and didn't go to the many reunions until i hit my twentieth i believe
and of course i haven't missed one since then
because it's just so enjoyable
you get to see all your old friends and what's going on
and it's a neat deal i look i look forward to them
oh yes
yeah
kids
kids getting older getting married
and graduating high school and college and whatever
just lots of things to catch up on and and we spent that time to do that
no
this was
this was just for the big guys just for the parents
it was sort of neat though
in fact we uh we had a little rule that we would we would not take the kids with us
this time
but all of our kids are a little older
so
yes
all of our kids are in middle and high school and college some are married
so so we just all got together and it was sort of neat
you bet
because mother and dad both were there
so it really paid off
yeah
it was neat
and and and her four kids were there
and their spouses so it worked out real well
the last family reunion
i did not plan
i only participated and enjoyed about two years ago
how about you
it often depends on how far you want to go back
on our particular family reunion they went back to my great great grandfather so that it was quite uh spread out
and there were many families uh
and there were many people
we didn't know i think the total participation i don't know how many were invited but there were about two hundred and fifty people there
and some of the families one of the cutest things that some of the the families did was to get t shirts
that identified themselves as that branch of the family
it was fun
actually he was not he has gone
but they decided to go ahead and take the family reunion back that far
so that it wouldn't just be people meeting third cousins
but people meeting i guess whatever
sixth and seventh cousins
and the other thing that i thought was particularly fun was uh the huge they had a huge family tree uh that was posted so you could sort of everybody could sort of see who married whom and so that was fun
you know in every family there's usually one person that is gifted to do these things
i have a cousin who never married who is a librarian sounds like a bad novel
uh
and she did she was she's always been interested in genealogy
and she's kind of kept track
uh i think she just started out writing to key people in the different branches of families and asking them to contact everyone
and i really on the family tree there really was
everyone except there was just some one group that had sort of gotten lost in missouri
but this is was in indiana
and it was a lot of the people had kind of stayed in one area
so it wasn't like they were necessarily from all over the country
but we're a good catholic german stock
and so yes
the original family that i [eluded] to my great grandfather had twelve children
and they had some pictures of that was another thing they did that
i thought was fun
sounds like the twelve twelve tribes of israel or something
actually
they remember most of the games
they had lots of games
and competitions which were fun
well are you planning a family reunion
no
do you how your you're from you're in san francisco
sometimes when you've moved perhaps your family reunion if there ever would one would be back in michigan where your roots would be
um
this is little off the that sounds typical
i never knew that i i always
i thought the like the children of your first cousins
i always called those second cousins and my children and my [cousins'] children
i called third cousins
that's how i've always named it some people have this once removed stuff
i don't know what that means
they'd just be your great aunts great aunts your [grandparents'] [siblings] would be your great aunts and uncles
so
but it it is interesting
sometimes a little sad when families branch out quite so much
but i don't know
that's the american way
i had two distant relatives who lived in the dallas fort worth area that i never had met and didn't know they were here
and we we all laughed how it was funny to go back to indiana to meet people who lived ten miles from you
so that was sort of funny
in fact one of them
i don't know remember how this was i guess it was actually just my father's cousin so it's not all that far away
yes
we have several
we do extended families
have you do you have you participated in a family reunion
um i i know that when we've had ours they set a date and they have them every um year
and it's mostly on my mom's side of the family that does it
but um they send out [invitations]
and it's the very same weekend of every year
and it's in july
and they always bring um family history information
and they have
and the saturday is all involved in people getting together um going over there's all these tables set up
and they've got all this family history that you can get information on different people and their childhood and pictures and put together your own history of your family and your ancestors and that's really fun
and then on sunday
they um they have a big dinner
and everyone's supposed to bring something
and it's more of just a time to just chat and get you know [reacquainted] with your cousins
and things like that
that's the very big extended one that's over two hundred people that go to that
so
right
right
i know on more of a smaller scale my husband's mother and father have bought a condominium that's in a ski resort in utah
and um they have it a certain week each year
that's set aside for the whole family to come home in july
and um everybody tries to go there and stay it's two or three big condominiums that all hook together
and so everybody tries to go up and stay
and um all be together on in his immediate family
but there were seven children
and by the time you get their spouses and their children all there
right
uh_huh
the money
yeah
oh yeah
now that one's a fun one that that is fun
i know that sometimes i've the one that's been hard for me is the one that the [skidmores] used to do at [christmastime]
and i i think it's just because it was it seemed to always be bad weather
and uh just going over the you know the
yeah
it just right after christmas that one was kind of hard
i think that was a hard time
but
well they haven't since his grandmother died
and i don't know if you know they they just continued it kind of while she was still alive and and uh just nobody has done anything about it since she passed away
but i don't know
i mean it was always nice
but it was just kind of a hard time i think
yeah
uh yeah
my my side of the family usually has let's see i went to one it was at my uh actually it was in [layton] and it was at my father's grandfather's house where his mother had been raised a little bit of the time
they they've still got this old home in their family
and and that it was really a fun one that was nice to get to know a lot of the people that that we don't know
and we just
well a big uh they had big grill that they cooked chicken and what did they have chicken and i guess ribs
and then they just did they had a little program
and they made a quilt and gave it away
uh well they they uh i think they drew names
is what they did
people well no
they did auction it
well people bought a ticket
that's how they did it
and then the person with the winning ticket got it and things like that
and that was kind of a fun one
yeah
no
we just goof off
just fires
oh uh_huh
now is that the same time of year
no
okay
because i it's
is that kind of a family reunion too
yeah
yeah
oh i see
oh
and
uh_huh
yeah
oh that's nice
yeah
we have they've organized a uh like a family
i don't know just some family organization on my dad's side and we do we pay dues i think this year we just paid like ten dollars and and then they sent have started sending out a news letter on people
and and uh you know somebody's gone to a lot of work
and they've they're doing a real good job and and so
oh yeah
i'm not good at things like that
so it is it is
and i know there has been a lot of years
we haven't gone
and then when we do go
it doesn't seem like we know anybody
and so i think it is good to keep going and keep those family ties up
yeah
oh
yeah
yeah
but that's that is kind of sad when uh nobody does want to do it
yeah
oh it is
it is
oh well
and and so you just you have the two on
either side
but you didn't have the one this year is this the first year you didn't have it on your husband's side
oh i see
oh
huh
uh_huh
oh
huh
i don't know
i've never heard that one before
you you
does this give us a signal
i guess not
okay um
we have family reunions about every year with my husband's family and generally it's held in the summer and we have it in the state park
which has worked out pretty well
uh over by [clifton] [forge] uh [delford] have you ever heard of that
right
uh_huh
well it's pretty good
yeah
uh there's quite a few children
in the family
so we have to try to find a time when everybody can be there and we've been pretty lucky so far
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
where in new hampshire
north [hampton] uh_huh
i'm from maine originally
i said i'm from maine originally
i'm i'm a [maniac] in other words oh
uh_huh
well uh we're we're some of the older ones in the family
so the ones with small kids usually have ball games
and kick ball things like that
uh one of them has made big banners to put on the oh we have one of those isn't that awful shelter
a covered shelter
and they've had big banners to display across the front of that
and it's always a [potluck] everybody brings food
right
get all those good family favorites
drum them out of the family
uh_huh
oh i see
oh that's great
oh yeah
that's great
what time of year
do you do you have it in the fall like after yeah
at football games
it is it's wonderful
uh my next family reunion with my family will be a wedding in atlanta
this month
so we're looking forward to that
uh it will be quite a few because one brother has five children
and they're all going to be there with their children
golly
so that's that's pretty good
yeah
uh_huh
do they do you organize things or get
or do they just
right
they just have a good time probably a lot of things to do huh
uh_huh
right
always bring one huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
yeah
that's interesting
that's a good idea
yeah
uh_huh
is her family in texas
uh_huh
yeah
right
well i have two girls and one is in texas
and she's a t i
uh employee right now
and uh the other one is in new mexico
right
uh_huh
colorado is beautiful
that's kind of what we found she's uh in the northern part of new mexico
it's pretty it's up in the mountains
yeah
it's beautiful
right
right
yeah
oh great
uh_huh
oh
that makes it great doesn't it
uh_huh
right
well we go to maine every fall
i have a brother
who lives there still and i have a sister in law and nieces and nephews so we always have a family reunion up in [farmington] and it's usually out on a farm
one of the girls has a farm
and no
i haven't
huh_uh
oh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
that's pretty interesting
yeah
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
um
well we uh uh this will be uh uh the reunion for not my grandfather but my great grandfather and then my great
and then my grandfathers so it's a couple of generations uh and these were pioneers who came across the plains
and uh the families were are quite large
and so we've we spent a lot of time trying to gather up uh names and addresses of all the tons of people that are involved
and so it takes a lot of time and planning uh
good activity the what
well interesting enough we're going to we're going to do it over an eight day period
uh they will not everyone won't be there for the whole time
but the families can come in during that eight day time and kind of meet on the on the living family level
like i will come there kind of early
and my brothers and sisters
and their families will come
so that we can get acquainted and then uh it goes back the the generation before will join us
and they may meet kind of individually in this camping area
and then uh toward the end of the week there will be two specific days when we honor these two uh groups my the grandfathers and the great grandfathers uh so it's kind of once more [combining] the whole group again
but uh it's it's it's uh it requires a lot of uh logistics for food for the people who will have to meet
and a lot of uh [arranging] for activities uh
well uh course you want to do some kinds of things that which will help them to get to know the [ancestor] that you're [honoring] but besides that if you have a lot of children
and and different ages you need to try to find things that uh that they will just like to do together
so that the next time somebody says reunion
they won't run like the four winds so it has to be pretty fun too
i think uh we're we're going uh going to utah to uh uh place near park city
and uh and it's a a pretty good size area where there'll be hiking and and then there will be uh-oh
just uh general kinds of things like uh swimming and whatever during the uh in the area [roundabout] which they will do during the days when they want to when they're not uh uh [rehearsing] or whatever for a part of the the play
and then we'll kind of get together
and and uh work out some small oh [vignettes] or or uh acts or things like that musical numbers and the fact that we're together early during the week will help us to get together to prepare those things for the for the programs at the end of the week
so it it we're real excited about it now always before we have only had my grandfather's family and uh we only did it for one day
and uh the last time we we were doing it every two years
and we decided last time we would wait a third year because it came across so often that it was kind of hard to get there
and uh some people come from back east and course i come from texas
so there's some of us come from quite a ways
uh and so we we had a little longer and decided to try to hold it uh in a situation that was a little longer like a camping situation something that wasn't too expensive
but uh could be more of a vacation situation for families to come and participate in while getting to know their ancestors and relatives
uh so that maybe they'd be attracted more to bring their families now i've never gotten all my family to come before
but this year
i have uh several married daughters
and and sons whose families are coming [en] [masse] so it it it looks to be a lot more interesting activity
well uh the ancestors came from there
and uh and we we were holding them there because there were some living ancestors up until uh fairly recently at this point in that generation that we're [honoring] there's only
well my mother is ninety three and she won't go this year because it's just too hard on her but uh
and there's one other wife but all of all of the children are now gone
they they've passed away in the meantime
and so uh at that point we were going for that reason
we were going there
but it just there just more of them there still than there are other places
the rest of us are kind of strung around some
but you know if you if you're talking about convenient for the biggest majority it still is there
also we had a we had a the member who was in charge of it in general this time had some access to this park
which was a big factor whether we'll be able to do it
there again
but there are other kind of arrangements like in in uh in some of the areas in colorado you know where they ski in the winter time you can make some pretty good arrangements for for uh for group uh activities and things like that
so we might do something like that also sometimes universities will will rent out uh areas
for doing things like that
but uh
well we knew generally the time of year uh that we wanted to do it in three years ago
but we could not set the date until the first of january this year because this park where they have it uh
they allow people in the vicinity to make their arrangements ahead of time
and so we kind of had to take what was left
and uh so we we feel pretty fortunate to have gotten in at all
but uh uh i think you need to plan on you need to be sure and plan uh at least a year ahead of time or you're going to lose people you know they have to plan their vacations that far ahead a little bit
if not exactly
at least know generally what they're going to do
well it's kind of important to to know quite a while ahead of time uh the last time we had one uh i was in charge of it
and my goal was to write a history of my of my father and his brothers and sisters
there was a history of his father and mother
but there was no history on them so i spent the two years before that [compiling] and and writing the history and then we gave it out at that this year we're not we're we're [combining] it in the and the parents before
and so we're going to do some uh uh acting out of of these groups and try to help them get better acquainted and mostly it's a different kind of thing
so we're we're just kind of playing it by ear and seeing how it goes
i think
yeah
we're kind of like we kind of uh well we like each other
and we liked our families and so we figure they the little kids ought to get to know each other and and we are scattered enough there
i have several children who live here
but i also have children in in uh nevada and arizona
so it's it's really neat to be able to get get around with them you know
and you're younger
you have any family at all
uh_huh
not very many huh
do you do you enjoy your do you enjoy your your wife's large family though
was it is it
yeah
yeah
yeah
you don't feel quite involved huh
yeah
well you have to try it
you'll like it
it really is quite a lot of fun
and uh uh uh uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
cousins get really get really close sometimes almost closer than brothers and sisters sometimes
right
especially if they live fairly close together
so they get a chance to see each other
it's kind of special um
uh_huh
yeah
i go to a family every year religiously
well i come from iowa
my mother was one of nine children in the family uh seven of those children are still living and uh the family has grown
of course
and we get uh about a hundred and fifty people a year that show up at this family reunion
i had come from a large like i said a large family
i have forty four first cousins on my mother's side and we all know each other pretty well
and and uh so it's a wonderful occasion when we get together
and we don't see everybody each year
but you know alternate years we get to see most everybody
oh
well you have to go with the right spirit of course uh i think what makes our family reunions
so good
is that we there is so much love that is shared there uh
well yeah
many of us do actually uh i'm in my fifties now
and my mother came from a generation where the only option was writing [postcards] letters whatever
uh
and she used to [correspond] with her sisters religiously
and they with her
so
and of course that older generation still always sends all of us christmas cards
and it's wonderful
so uh but it it
ours is the type of family
if i had no place to be i could call anyone of my aunts or my cousins and they would say come and stay with me for a few weeks
uh_huh
it's
oh well uh these attitudes are projected down to the kids that this is the place where we really want to go and and we can have a good time
it's not a boring thing
uh i guess once in awhile about thirteen or so maybe it's a little boring for them
if if they haven't been there enough years to have formed friendships but my kids went every year
and therefore they knew you know a lot of the other kids
so then you kind of look forward to seeing some of these second cousins once a year we do go to uh it's clear lake iowa where we hold it
and we make every effort in the world to get the shelter house
so we have a facility where we can be inside
but yet the kids can go and be in the lake if they want to
oh
and that's set it's going to be
it's always the first sunday after the fourth of july
oh it is
but you can't find any time in iowa when it's not hot in the summertime
oh yeah
uh_huh
well
okay
but iowa is very agricultural and spring is not a good time to try to do anything
because so many were involved with agriculture so so do you have a reunion
oh
uh_huh
well you know with as many people as we have we're all over the u s too
but uh oh my
what did you say your first name was
ralph a ralph shouldn't act like that
oh okay
oh i see
okay
there's difference
yeah
uh_huh
all right  
i guess our we're in the process of a home repair right at this point  
because we're we're painting the outside of our house  
i don't know  
i guess you would consider that a home repair  
certainly uh uh  
and interesting enough this time we're changing the color which makes it an addition  
what is your most recent  
you did that recently too uh  
does it make a big difference  
huh_uh  
that's neat isn't it  
i was really really tired of the color  
that it's it's helping  
we're not quite through  
but it's it really is looking good  
uh we went through a process of of uh home repairs on a on a rental house we had  
probably the most extensive and uh the interesting part of it was how much we learned about what we could do  
um we didn't have very much money  
and so we had to do it ourselves in kind of a slow process  
but we learned how to do uh [retile] [bathtubs] and uh-oh just all kinds of things that are unusual  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
it's nice to not have a drip through from the roof isn't it  
that's awful  
um howard and i were talking about home repair the other night and uh in connection with scouting  
we've got a scout coming up  
and uh uh i think it's neat for young people to learn how to uh take care of their of a household you know like uh fixing [faucets] dripping [faucets]   and putting in [panes] of glass and stuff like that  
huh_uh  
how does the paneling  
it looks lots better than  
do you like it better  
yeah  
huh_uh  
that's nice  
nice to have it come out positive and look   look good  
well we have a lot that needs be done  
we have uh uh carpeting  
and and we did have a new uh floor put in our kitchen  
and um i have my mother living with us  
and so she was in a room with a carpet  
and of course she's quite aged  
she's ninety three now  
so that meant she had problems now and then  
and it was really good to get the carpet out of there and put a linoleum down  
so it was easier to clean and see where the dirt was  
and   so that was a really positive uh uh  
it was fairly expensive though  
i i was impressed  
i think that uh  
we had somebody do it  
and it was it seems to me like it's probably more expensive to put down linoleum almost than it is to put down carpet  
kind of depends on the quality of carpet i suppose  
but uh in the case of the linoleum they have to rip up everything and and fix the floor  
so it's uh  
i don't know  
what ever  
but they have to put stuff on the floor  
and it's uh kind of a process  
well it sounds like you have some pretty good experiences with uh with uh uh home repair  
yeah  
all right  
happy home repairing  
bye bye  
huh_uh  
we just did that too  
yes  
oh yes  
we have brick on the outside  
and uh the colors that were there changed the and the colors that we painted changed the entire look of the house  
completely  
yeah  
that was really exciting  
it was fun  
huh_uh  
so the other thing that we did was the roof of our house  
and uh we did that a different color also  
of course uh being a woman most of these things were done by the men  
and uh so i wasn't directly involved  
but uh they really were helpful i know to our house  
yeah  
yes  
huh_uh  
as a matter of fact one thing i have a young son  
and one thing we did was we had paneling on the inside of our uh front of our house or the hall way of our house rather  
and we were repainting the the front room in the hall there  
and we took down that paneling  
and he helped me  
and and uh he was it was fun to work with him   and uh and uh help putty up the holes together and and do things   like that  
oh i like it so much better  
it makes it so much lighter  
you know it really does  
you know and people that have been to my house before and then now really have liked   much better too  
it's been fun  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
we have  
it's been really fun  
okay  
you too  
bye bye  
are you going to tell me what you've been doing lately in the  
okay  
oh my  
you   you are experienced i would say  
well i agree  
i have done something uh like that too only not nearly as extensive  
but it must be interesting now trying to do something to a basic ranch   style home   uh   after having a one that was historical looking  
yes  
uh_huh  
well maybe you can uh make that one [charming] and and make a little bit money uh  
yes  
well we just moved to charlotte   from enid oklahoma  
so i know   of what you're talking about   as far as the market was concerned  
and i'll tell you uh we we had kind of a [charming] house  
it was a cedar shake house   and very [weathered]  
and uh   it was about fifty years old   but not not really uh traditional looking   particularly  
and uh so i tried to make it after i sold my business  
i in in  
i spent almost three years redoing  
and i considered it a full time job  
and when we did uh  
we kind of had planned this uh trek to the east   because we're both originally from this part of the country  
and so i think some of the things that i did paid off  
for instance   one thing that i did that might even be a good suggestion for you   uh was something i did on the outside  
i love old estate estate sales  
i happened to go to just a little estate sale that   just a little white frame house   where the couple uh was very old   and had gone into nursing homes  
and   uh all the men started going down to the barn  
and so i  
well shoot i'm going  
yes  
i'm going to the barn too  
they uh [auctioned] some tools and   things like that  
but then they went over and started uh [auctioning] this big stack of bricks  
and so well i thought gee i've been wanting to   do some brick uh walkways   for a time  
anyway it ended up after some pretty uh heavy [bidding]   that i got all those bricks for forty dollars  
and so my husband and i loaded bricks in his   pickup truck for days  
but what we ended up with was about four thousand  
for forty dollars  
and so what we did  
we had built a deck on the back of that house  
but it needed  
and   it was quite large out to   into the yard  
but   on either side of it to the ends of the house it just needed to be all tied together  
so we   made brick [patios] and walkways  
and so for  
and he he did the digging   which was about six inches  
but i figured the sand and all   had that delivered and   leveled it and and   placed most all the bricks  
and it turned out beautifully  
yes  
well it nearly killed me  
i hated to leave it  
uh_huh  
no  
we  
well i  
well no  
i i didn't have that trouble because uh we laid the  
i did get some material   and studied every bit of material that i could study  
but   we laid those bricks about as close as you can get them  
because when you start  
and we put them on a base of four inches of sand  
and then we uh we swept sand in between  
but   but it was an error to to leave like an eighth of an inch or whatever  
you just put them together as close as you can  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well  
and i also used a rubber hammer a lot   to uh   you know  
if it wasn't quite level or something i'd just get that   rubber hammer and uh and and you know  
i think that they could  
if they have problems with uh sand bugs of some kind   i think all they need to do is probably put some [insecticide] down in there   on a oh a fairly regular basis   for a while anyway  
well i think   i think she needs to take them to the extension agent and ask him what they are  
and  
yeah  
is it diazinon  
or what is it that will uh  
dursban or something like that  
dursban  
i think in this area or most all areas they use you know   for ticks and fleas  
and you know they're   awful hard to do anything with  
yeah  
i bet dursban would do it  
yeah  
i think uh you probably just need to make sure that it dries   very very uh well   before she lets her cats out or something   like that  
well gosh [deb] we could talk all day couldn't we  
yes  
wow  
oh  
oh good  
uh_huh  
yes  

sure uh  
i'll offer anything that i can on the subject  
uh my husband and i just bought a just moved here recently  
and uh we bought uh this house about uh i don't know year and a half ago  
what we have here now is just a basic three bedroom two bath brick house which is uh completely different from what i had had before  
when i was working and before i married uh i lived in a little town south of here that is just full of old homes and uh historic old houses and things like that  
so i uh tried to  
i was in the process of [renovating] a house and uh that was about seventy five years old  
so uh it had to have everything done from top to bottom to having it leveled [jacked] up uh new plumbing new wiring wallpaper paint  
everything you can think of   that house had to have  
well i i really did enjoy it uh you know  
it was amazing what i found out i could do on my own if i just put my mind to it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it is  
it is  
yeah  
that's that's true  
when uh i met my husband he was living in an apartment at the time  
and and uh the town that i was living in only about eighty miles from here  
so uh you know i we  
really it was just  
the market was so good  
we hadn't really planned on buying  
and as you probably heard from the in the dallas and texas area period the housing market is just unreal  
i mean you can get things for such a song  
so that's that's really why we ended up in a house like this  
this is not what we you know what we want to stay in forever because i have to have my i've found that after doing this other house i have to have my hands into stuff  
and   you know i'm always just wanting to paint and and wallpaper and redo and redo  
so uh you know i i'm ready to get ahold of another one that i can have a little more input into  
so  
yeah  
that's that's the key you know  
the thing is uh when we moved in they had just uh painted we're you know [wallpapered] new carpet and everything  
so i feel sort of uh you know like it's sort of [defeating] my purpose to go rip everything out now and do it over just because i'm in the mood to do it  
so uh we'll see   we'll see how much longer we're here  
uh_huh  
oh oklahoma of all places  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh it is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh-oh  
that's where i need to go  
exactly  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
work  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
oh no  
oh my word  
for forty dollars  
oh my  
uh_huh  
something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh how fun  
oh how nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh i bet  
and what satisfaction to know that you did it in such an inexpensive way  
yeah  
but but you did [stagger] back and say oh doesn't this look nice  
well let me ask you  
when you laid those bricks  
i know my parents bought a house about ten years ago  
they're fixing to sell it again but and move again  
they're kind of  
my mom's like i am  
she's a [renovator] a lover of old things  
and you know they have to be doing something constantly  
and the patio that came with that house uh was not laid on a like  
i don't know if you can put some sort of a plastic [sheeting] or something on on top of the sand and then lay the bricks  
but they have they have a problem with these little like sand bugs or something   that drill in between all these bricks  
and of course you know you have the uh the weeds that come up in between the bricks or and things like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i see  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
as tight as you can  
that's probably because they had you know  
every spring my mom says we're going to have a a barbecue and tell everybody guess what  
we're going to we're going to redo the patio you know  
we're going to pull up all the bricks  
but uh they just they just haven't brought themselves to do it  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
well the thing that's funny is they've done uh they've done things like that you know  
i'll catch her out there spraying around  
and then it's like in two days time they'll come home from work  
and those little things are back  
it's just they're the most [resilient] little characters  
and so i don't know what they're finally going to do  
she may just  
hopefully they'll sell the house   and go somewhere else  
and then she won't have to worry about it  
what are these things  
right  
yeah  
what it what it is that'll that'll   take care of them  
yeah  
right  
oh that's true  
that's true  
but my my dad farms  
and you know she's always telling him isn't there something that that you can bring home with you that kills everything that you spray you know out in the out in the field that you can get rid of   these bugs  
but uh  
it might it might do it  
yeah  
she's got so many she's got just a gorgeous yard so many uh flowers and her her four cats you know  
so she's sort of uh real funny about what she sprays  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i i was just you know it just seems  
like i as i said when i heard the what the subject was i thought oh gosh i haven't thought about uh what i went through at that other house in so long  
i've been so busy  
but uh i don't know  
of everything that i did i guess i enjoyed probably wallpapering the most  
and i thought that would be the hardest thing to do  
but uh gosh you know i ended up wallpapering every bedroom in that house uh up the [stairway]   even  
you know i just had a ball with it  
it was so much fun  
yeah  
and i've [sworn] up and down  
my mom's uh my mom's great grandparents had this huge victorian house in paris texas  
and the one thing that she ended up with is was the old door   that was that was on the front door of that house  
and she has that up in her attic  
and i have [sworn] that it  
i'm going to find a house to put that door on before she does  
so as far as looking toward the future you know that's my plan  
i'm going to have to move fast   i think though because uh you know as a  
you've done  
well how did it go  
gee like starting over i guess  
uh  
uh_huh  
boy that sounds like uh  
course uh i don't know  
once you get it done then you probably won't have that problem again  
um you've got an older house  
they are built a little bit more sturdy than  
right  
oh is that right  
yes  
and just start at square one  
uh  
well and then if you do it wrong  
everything went all right  
that's the type of thing you cross your fingers and are glad when that happens  
right  
yes  
right  
all worked out all right huh  
well um well probably the last thing i did was uh paint and wallpaper kids room  
and uh i learned to  
i used the wrong kind of paint  
this wasn't must have not been a very good quality because it just hasn't stood up very well  
it was a latex paint paint  
it was flat  
and i wonder if maybe i should have used a gloss  
uh but they say you ought to use your gloss mainly in your   kitchens and things like that  
yeah  
but i think maybe uh  
i don't know if it was just the  
well it it is a latex paint  
but it just kind of is is  
so you know so it's supposed to wash you're supposed to be able to wash it  
but it um just looks dingy  
i don't know how else to explain it  
it's pink  
it's kind of got uh-oh just kind of a worn look to it  
i don't know even how to say  
just didn't turn out quite as nice as i would have liked  
but  
i we put two coats on it  
and it's a small room  
but i think it only took one uh can  
no  
we did uh-oh  
you do mix the color as far as you start with uh white  
and   then they add the color  
you know what i'm saying  
but  
yes  
right  
and then i wall [papered] a couple of walls  
and uh  
well that was the first time i've ever [wallpapered]  
and uh  
that's an education in itself  
but uh the dye lots uh must have been a little bit different from  
first of all it takes quite a few rolls even a small room if you're trying to match a design  
yes  
that's what i needed  
and i didn't think about that  
i got a mickey mouse print is what i got  
and so a lot is wasted  
so you know how  
see i didn't even think to look for that  
and then the  
one of them was just a different color different color pink is what it ended up being  
and  
no  
i didn't  
is that how you're supposed to do  
i started at one edge and went over  
then you had to cut around the closet   and cut around a window  
but uh  
and start right there  
do you seem to get it [straighter]  
is that the advantage  
or what's the  
our most recent series of projects i guess was inside was uh we remodeled a bathroom recently  
well it went pretty well uh other than the fact that we encountered some uh problems that you run across in older homes with plumbing which one thing led to another  
and eventually we ended up replacing all the pipes from the sink clear back to the main drain   which meant you needed to take the wall out and start all over  
it wasn't one of those  
it started out as a sunday project  
and by by the next sunday it was done  
it wasn't a one [dayer]  
believe me  
yeah  
it's good for another thirty years  
yes  
well that's the thing that surprised me because once i got into the plumbing   everything in there was copper  
and it was all [soldered]  
that's what drove me bananas because you know i'm going to the hardware store saying give me plastic pipe and   and cement   to fit them together  
and nothing wanted to go  
so it was like i had to go all the way back to the main drain and start all over  
really  
that was an all day job just to get it [plumbed]  
fortunately i was very fortunate uh in the fact that uh when i made the installation of the sink and everything [bolted] up and we turned the water on   nothing leaked  
everything worked  
and i just said that's marvelous  
i appreciate it  
well i expected something to leak you know   left a fitting loose or   didn't use teflon tape on one of them or something like that  
but it all came together  
so i i felt pretty fortunate about that  
how about you  
uh_huh  
what kind of paint  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that and semigloss for trim work and usually flat for walls  
was it not [washable] paint  
uh_huh  
what color is it  
pink  
okay  
did you uh require more than one can of paint  
you didn't have to mix paint then right  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but you only had one can of paint that you   did the entire room with  
how'd that go  
kind of fun isn't it  
really  
repeating patterns is what you have to check for   when you when you buy your paper  
yeah  
normally it will tell you on the roll how often a pattern repeats  
yeah  
um  
when you did your [papering] did you start in the middle of the wall  
or did you start at the edge  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've had my best luck in [papering] when i start in the middle of a wall  
and i'll start with a [plumb] line   and start in the middle of the wall and and go from there and go all the way around the room  
well you you  
so uh what kind of home repair work have you done  
been pulling them up huh or just loosening them until the rain came in  
are you in the section of texas that's been getting so much rain  
oh okay  
yeah  
but you're probably what about halfway across the state from san antonio though aren't you  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
but you're still getting a good bit of the rain though  
yeah  
yeah  
is it asphalt shingles  
or or  
ooh  
that should be a lot of fun  
did you put them up originally or just going up and stopping leaks in them  
yeah  
uh we're in uh campus apartment buildings with flat top uh  
not too much  
they're just tar and [gravel]   treated flat top roofs  
have you got pretty well pitch on that roof or is it pretty steep  
what do you use to keep from sliding off that rascal  
yeah  
i imagine i imagine  
yeah  
yeah  
that would be just too much of a fall for me  
um have you been uh  
was was the house reasonably new  
or you been doing some remodeling work on it  
that's pretty new house yet  
yeah  
yeah  
it's settling [unevenly]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that sounds like a lot of fun  
um what is it like uh stucco walls or  
oh drywall  
wood framing  
okay  
they [plastered] over drywall  
i remember my parents home is [drywalled] and then they uh almost like a small grade stucco type [plastering] over the drywall   to give it a textured sort of a look  
and made for kind of a hard shell on the on the drywall  
yeah  
that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
that would that would be in terribly terribly [exasperating] to have the the slab floor like that [swelling] and giving like that  
well um done a little uh repair on the uh shingles on the roof recently  
we've had a lot of wind around here  
yes  
it looks like i'm going to have to get up there again because we may have a leak  
we've been getting quite a bit maybe not quite as bad as some of the folks down around san antonio  
but uh well i'm right  
plano's just north of dallas  
and there are parts of downtown or near downtown dallas that are under water right now i guess  
i saw on the news  
well we're up uh we're north   and uh-oh about uh i don't know uh eighty to a hundred miles south of the oklahoma line i guess  
uh we did have a little bit of rain yesterday  
so far we haven't had any today  
and uh i suppose that means i should be uh getting up there to look at that uh shingle  
but uh   i had something else planned today  
so i guess i'll let it go awhile  
they're uh  
no  
they're uh wood shake  
yeah  
no  
i  
uh as a matter of fact we've never had a leak actually yet  
now this  
we just bought the house last year  
and uh uh just before we took possession of it we had a fellow go up there and do whatever needed to be done on the shingles  
so i've just recently had to start looking at it myself  
so it's a small problem so far  
but i guess you just have to keep on top of it  
what kind of roof do you have  
oh then you don't have to do too much with it  
uh_huh  
oh it's pretty steep  
uh parts of it are [steeper] than others  
well uh you wear uh shoes with good traction and and and try to remember where you are at all times  
and remember to yell [geronimo]   if all else fails  
it's actually just twelve years old now  
yeah  
it uh  
this part of the country  
actually they say that when the house is uh fifteen it's already old  
but just take good care of it  
thing is  
we've uh the main thing that we've had with this house recently has been some uh [squirming] i call it of the foundation  
we're just on a concrete slab you know  
but uh the soil right under this is a clay  
and it uh  
well it uh depending on it's moisture content it either [swells] up or [shrinks]  
and uh   of course the soil right under the slab [retains] it's moisture a lot longer  
and so during the dry season you have to water the foundation to keep your foundation from uh from uh [drooping]  
and uh but anytime there's a change in the weather like the temperature drastic changes in temperature or in uh moisture uh you get little spider web cracks all around uh windows and doors  
well usually what you do is just wait until you think it's stopped  
and then you patch them up  
uh well this is all uh it's all drywall  
uh i think with uh  
yeah  
right  
but uh somehow or other that does manage to uh show these little cracks  
i don't know quite how that works  
maybe it isn't drywall  
i don't really know  
yeah  
i think it is  
i expect that's what it is  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's the way this is done  
fortunately we haven't had any real big holes in it yet  
so i  
yes  
well the previous owner had a major problem with it because uh-oh probably a variety of things  
his neighbor used  
okay  
you were helping your parents  
uh_huh  
so you're remodeling  
okay  
well i i just live in a i live in an apartment now  
i uh two summers ago i went to massachusetts  
and i went with a friend of mine  
and we [undertook] a building house  
and this was a a lincoln log house where you have the wall partitions  
and it's [preconstructed] you might say  
and we started in uh we started from an empty lot with uh   trees and stuff on it  
and we had to cut them uh down and clear the lot  
we had to call in the [excavators] and have them dig the basement   pour the basement and uh went from the ground up  
our   one of our main problems was  
well in massachusetts i thought i was going to  
well it was a a fun time  
but   i thought gosh summer time you know  
well all it ever did was rain and thunder storms  
and one thing is that we're we had we were going to pour the basement foundation  
and we're in the process  
and it started pouring down rain  
and i guess we had most of it done  
but the end was result  
what happened was that some of the the a lot of water settled on the top  
and it really didn't give a very good finish  
and some of the  
it was sort of sandy and   and not uh a very good finish  
but it turned it was okay  
and it's only the basement floor  
so it was okay  
but uh it kept us pretty busy  
it was only uh  
there was well me and my friend  
and then we just had like two [helpers] and   uh sort of a a family type  
it wasn't you know like a commercial project or something  
it was sort of just you know uh gets your get his you know my my brother and well maybe you know my cousin's coming over today to help us do that   kind of thing so that the scheduling and everything was kind of hectic sometimes  
and and then materials coming in  
and so we're we're hopping around pretty good  
but overall yeah we got it done  
and it's a three bedroom two bath house  
and it's pretty neat  
yeah  
so  
well it was uh for my friend's parents  
they had some property there  
and they'd lived in this this old  
it's sort of like a farm you might say  
and they live in this old house   for something like thirty years or something  
and his mom just wanted a a new house   you know  
that has been her dream  
and so we did that  
and uh she was really pleased with it  
so it came   really great  
so  
so what why is it that the weather in atlanta that gets very hot  
where you live it gets very hot  
and that's why you  
and the windows have you what type of windows are you putting in  
because the windows are something that is conducive to temperature changes in uh you know the solar game  
have you  
what what are you putting in triple glaze or double glaze or  
oh okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
okay  
oh these  
so you have the [sash] windows in  
did uh did it go up and down  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
yes  
there's a problem with those  
those are uh  
they usually most of the time don't open very well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and they also there they they  
a lot of vibration  
and it causes the glass to crack  
and it's   a never ending problem  
so so i haven't uh i haven't been in any really home repair things lately  
i  
one way or another we're now recording  
um um oh yeah  
home repair  
right  
i still am really  
they're uh sort of remodeling a house out in downtown atlanta in [candler] park  
and uh we've done lots to it  
we've taken out the glass and most of the windows and the [sashes] and replaced them  
and  
uh_huh  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
nice  
nice  
so uh i mean what was it for  
you just  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
wow  
huh  
yeah  
it does  
huh  
right  
no  
we just we just went into a building supply store and bought plate glass  
my parents do not have a whole lot of money to put into it  
and uh but it  
see in a lot of the windows  
uh it's the house is eighty years old  
and it's had several owners and stuff  
and uh   they have put plastic [plexiglas] kind of stuff in some of the windows  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and so uh and and so we wanted to get all new stuff in there  
so  
yeah  
ours didn't  
and the ones that would open uh wouldn't want to stay open  
they wanted   to slam shut  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
are you in the middle of anything  
the whole thing  
did the framing and all  
huh  
maybe you and i should get together because when i had my last big project i had the contractor do the framing  
and i did all the [sheetrocking] and the interior work  

yeah  
my wife wishes i hadn't done that  
i think it takes about three or four times before it gets easy  
yeah  
did you you framed it in uh on on you framed in new square footage  
or was it stuff that was already uh enclosed  
brand new  
and you knew how you knew how to do the framing  
uh_huh  
do do you build on [slabs] down there or did you build it up off the ground  
on the piers  
did  
you had those poured  
or you did them yourself  
you just put forms in the ground and fill them with concrete  
huh  
well the last thing i did completely myself was an outside deck which i was pretty proud of  
no  
i designed it from scratch and did it   did a pretty good job  
those are nice  
they're pretty forgiving you know  
you can always tear stuff out and redo it  
it's a  
right  
yeah  
i   i built it two levels and with a big toy box and some [benches] and uh a [backrest] and all that stuff  
i  
yeah  
i had   a friend with a tractor who dug the pier holes  
so we could pour concrete and support it with a a nice firm four by four posts  
and uh   and then the rest of it i just did  
a a contractor friend helped me uh with some of the uh foundation work  
but uh it was pretty  
it was about four or five hundred square feet  
the same size as the addition that i just put on  
so  
yeah  
it's uh not that expensive  
i think it cost me three dollars a square foot and uh you know no less than that  
cost me about five hundred dollars six hundred dollars all together  
yeah  
i'd be surprised if it wasn't uh cheaper where you are  
well yeah  
it probably comes from where you are  
most  
when i drive through that area that's all i see is   pressure treated pressure treated lumber yards  
uh_huh  
right  
east texas  
huh  
yeah  
my current project is a [walkway] which i'm building around the house and out to the backyard to uh you know digging it out and laying sand and putting uh [pavers] on top of that  
so  
that's a lot easier  
no  
i'm not in the middle of anything  
i've just  
about the last thing i did  
about maybe oh close to a year ago now i guess i i helped my dad add on another bedroom on to his house  
so i guess that  
yeah  
that that was fairly large undertaking  
a a it's a bedroom and a walk in closet and a bathroom all on one side of the house  
oh we did it all except for the [sheetrocking]  
that was the only thing we didn't you know putting the ceiling up and things like that  
we don't we we weren't sure how to do that  
and  
yeah  
that's the exact opposite  
we did all put the roof up and did all the roofing and the put all the interior walls up  
we just didn't do any of the [sheetrock] wall work  
and that's it because you have you know get those joints to go together  
and whatever you have to put in there to get the to take the gaps out between the sheets   and on the ceiling and all that  
i we didn't know a thing about any of that  
and so  
it's it looked very hard to do  
so  
we figured well just  
i didn't think we could do it and make it look professional  
so we left it left it to somebody who does it for a living  
but  
probably so  
and i   we'd never done it  
so   we just left it alone  
but that's  
i guess i'm only twenty one  
so i my my vast experience of home home owner's knowledge is not very much  
so it's just what i have to do more or less around the house you know for my parents  
so  
it was brand new  
we started with the backyard and turned it into part of the house  
so it was  
uh well my dad knew how to do most of it you know  
he he'd we'd gotten a couple of books  
and then he just started doing it  
i don't know  
he well he did all the [flooring] himself  
he put the whole the whole floor in  
and then i just started with the walls and the roof and started there  
and then we were put a like a not not necessarily a garage but just like a off the side of that  
after we had the house part made we just decided we'd carry the roof out a little bit farther and put a [carport] more or less  
it's not you know it's not enclosed  
it's just somewhere to drive another car to to park  
and it's  
uh it's off the ground  
uh_huh  
it's on about   uh twenty two inch piers something like that  
so  
uh no  
those those are  
we did those ourselves  
so  
yeah  
exactly  
so it's  
yeah  
those those are  
we'd i've done one  
i helped somebody do one of those before  
those are those are you know  
you can buy them in kits  
but we didn't do that way  
but it's  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's not near   like building a house or anything  
but  
yeah  
those are nice  
especially when you get done you've got something you know  
i don't know  
i like them  
you just sit down on   on the deck and do whatever have   a barbecue  
or  
yeah  
that sounds nice  
all done by yourself huh  
designed  
yeah  
yeah  
that's pretty that's a good size deck  
so yeah  
that's  
yeah  
that's not  
yeah  
that's good  
that's not bad at all  
didn't   have to  
the wood may  
it got surprising as to the fact that how much wood is you know  
to get to get good lumber it costs  
i don't know about dallas but even in this little town it's it's not cheap at all  
i was surprised  
it's probably more there  
yeah  
yeah  
that   it probably does  
i i'm not sure  
but  
yeah  
it's nothing but woods up here down here  
yeah  
i don't i haven't i mean i haven't  
i used to live in dallas in arlington actually  
and but that was just when i was a kid  
so i don't really know what the cost of living is even like in dallas anymore  
but it's i don't know we're a college town  
so that doesn't help us out any  
we have  
gas is a dollar dollar twelve a gallon  
so   that's probably about what you're paying  
so  
yeah  
you've got something going all the time  
okay
so what is your latest home repair
uh_huh
right
oh yeah
any kind of upgrade
uh_huh
oh yeah
and your house didn't have it on there before
uh_huh
huh
i figures that was something they put on all houses
i don't know
oh really
you kind of have to dig a trench right
yeah
i remember i've i've i just got married
so i've only lived in an apartment and a duplex
so i've you know have not owned a home yet
but i remember my parents built their home and they had to they had a lot of lot of work in fact it was fifteen years ago
and they're still uh trying to finish the basement and up you know
it's a never ending process
uh_huh
yeah
right
where are you moving to
uh_huh
yeah
and it's a buyer's market now
right
uh_huh
have you ever bought an old house or rented an old house and then fixed it up
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
oh cool
oh wow
yeah
wish it was that way
now don't you
everybody could build each other's house for dirt
huh
okay
i've been [sneezing] all day
so
yeah
um
uh_huh
that's always nice
to have to know somebody like that that can
that's handy
you ought to have him come down for a visit when you get your new house
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
oh i'm looking forward to owning a house or getting a a small house that meets our needs
and then fixing it up
uh_huh
um
yeah
yeah
my parents have one of those they do
and they get really hot
uh_huh
huh
i live in sherman
now i'm from indiana
so i've lived in sherman three years
work for t i
and uh like i said i'm looking forward to maybe buying a house while the interest [rate's] still cheap
and fixing it up
yeah
seems to be a lot of that
uh_huh
yeah
uh not even a year yet
oh really
yeah
my parents just got done fixing the house up again because for our wedding you know and then my brother's graduation they finally finished the basement after like living there fifteen years
they had an occasion to finish it
so it was kind of neat to see it finally all come together
uh_huh
i i couldn't get used to the fact that houses down in texas don't have basements
because i love
like big rec rooms
you know
and
yeah
that's that's something
um yeah
we have
it's a very timely subject i think in the spring
everybody decides that they're going to start over and do something with their house
and we started last year
an
we have a little i guess it's a sixteen hundred foot house
and it's just my husband and i here
but um we decided that uh we wanted to build a sun room and um it's a good thing we got a contractor
i mean this is not something you need to do by yourself
so we ended up with a contractor and went through that whole [schmeal] with um the contractor saying one thing
and then doing another and and uh anyway we ended up with uh a really neat sun room on the back of the house
it's beautiful
it's like two hundred square foot
but that's not um something we did by ourselves
if you talk about home repairs um [tom's] real good at mowing the grass and doing the garden
so that's about it
isn't that amazing
yeah
yeah
all those little details that you you don't really understand you know
like we had some water leaks in the um well in the sun room
there was a part that was [fiberboard] and you know tape and bed over that
and when it did rain
of course the only way to tell if this place leaks is to see if what happens after it rains
and of course it leaked um which is no big deal
because they said they'd come fix it
well that's true
but you know fixing the tape and bedding to make it look nice again it's it's it's a chore
and a half without tearing the whole thing out and repainting and doing everything again
oh
yeah
i don't know
i guess you get this idea that everything should be perfect
and you know what this isn't a perfect world
it
but you do
oh i know
because every time they send somebody out they have to take them off a crew that's making money doing a job and they have to send them back to you
where they're not making any money trying to repair something that you know should have been right in the first place
yeah
well i was real happy with our contractor
um actually i wasn't happy with the contractor i was happy with the job [foreman]
so i think that made all the difference
because he was pretty um you know concerned about how it looked
and and you know how it should be done the right way
and he gave us a lot of [clues] you just wish you knew all this stuff going in that um it was funny because we didn't understand a lot of things that we had to do in addition to this you know like the tape and bedding and and doing finishing off this wall
and that wall that wasn't in the contract you know kind of thing
so that was kind of interesting
oh neat
oh yeah
yeah
well we've taken this another step further this year we're going to build a deck we've got some people building uh a deck out in the back you know to complete sort of the back yard kind of thing
and um
oh yeah
oh
uh_huh
okay
i was wondering about that
yeah
uh_huh
you [soaked] it
oh yeah
the color is what you're yeah
sometimes after that's that's what we're doing is just the redwood and we're doing it where they use the screws that are um they're not nails they're the screws have
yeah
those and so they're not going to split and and i was really concerned about bugs really when i when we were considering other types of wood because you know termites can be a real hazard around here
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's that's the end part that's where you you know get the uh that's the part
we have to do
we got that up front
we figured it out you know we need to know what we need to do uh that's not included in this
and that's one of the uh details
but that's fine
as long as they tell you
it's so funny because tom is getting more and more adept at doing things
it's just things like painting just always used to really scare him
he didn't know where to start um you know with a paint can you know an
it sure is
uh_huh
oh and do the water seal before
uh_huh
okay
i got you covered there
kind of like marinate them
yeah
and that's just a water [sealing] what happens if they aren't water sealed yeah
will deteriorate yeah
yeah
yeah
they did tell us that we'd have to you know every couple of years just you know do brush up on the color um
uh_huh
oh really
huh
well that's a really interesting tip
and uh definitely something tom could handle doing that
yeah
he suggested just getting uh um a uh um a [mop] like you would use
paint it
yeah
uh_huh
you couldn't tell oh
well that's definitely interesting because here we go with another home project
it is
well like i said tom does great with his garden
i i always uh enjoyed working on the crew in the plays and building stuff
so i'm i'm really in [infatuated] with building things and and making things
but there's nothing like getting a
uh i guess i i've rented most of the time
so i i haven't done much home repair
uh i do small little little odd jobs
yeah
i i worked uh with a guy uh it was quite a few years ago uh and uh he built his own homes stuff like that
and i i helped him quite a bit as from from everything from the carpentry work right
electrical plumbing just about everything
so it was kind of fun to do that
no
no
that's uh
well i had have a kind of [delves] into uh construction a little bit where uh we worked on wooden railroad bridges
and uh some of them uh in the country uh get pretty high
and you're overlooking uh uh a small body of water mostly rocks down there
and you're just
yeah
so uh it's not fun to work too high
but uh you know the uh i think more what they're talking about is into the the home
basically most of that i you know i've done some minor repairs electrically
and minor repairs plumbing stuff like that
yeah
yeah
i i enjoy doing a lot of projects like that
but not alone
i i prefer having someone that uh has some knowledge in that and and i uh help and learn
and that route
but if i had to tackle you know building an addition totally by myself uh i wouldn't enjoy it at all
yeah
um
uh_huh
um
sounds like quite a project there
yeah
i guess a lot of times when you're when you're pressed for time and have to do it and want to get it done
then it doesn't become fun any more
i think the the smaller projects tend to be more fun something you can finish in maybe a week or something
yeah
yeah
well uh especially on stuff like roofing when you're doing it in
ninety to a hundred degree weather and
yeah
for sure
yeah
and then it always seems like a lot of that uh tile up there
is is almost starting to melt in your hands
it's real hard to handle
well i don't know about you
but i'm i'm about out
yeah
so i think we'll just end it short
well i need to find out from you
how the last remodeling project you [undertook] and if it was successful
and you you were pleased with what happened
have you been doing any remodeling lately
uh_huh
all right
did you like the results
uh_huh
all right
yes
it does what kind of molding is this uh molding
oh
uh_huh
well that's a lot of fun
we
oh yes
decorate a nursery or something
huh
oh okay
yes
get some uh get an extra room there for the new baby
what's that
no
uh we've done uh some painting and put up some wallpaper in uh in the boys' room we needed to to paint because the paint was uh getting dingy or or grain plus there was a lot of [markings] on the on the paint that
well on top of the bunk beds the boys got up there
and uh started drawing on the ceiling and that was kind of hard to get off
so we decided rather than uh uh wash it all off and clean it up we decided to paint over it
and the walls were were textured and there was a lot of holes from the previous owners and so we [patched] them all up and painted
and and put border and wallpaper along the top and it looks really nice now
and we we're quite pleased with it
and and uh it uh it looks pretty good
there's a lot of other things that cheryl would like me to do
but it's just finding the time
well good good
uh
uh_huh
well good
you uh you put on a dick deck there recently too haven't you
or has that been a couple of years
uh_huh
yes
i imagine
it would be
wow
you painted it wet
well good
yeah
we have one
yes
i
yeah
they are they they make a lot of noise
but they're good
we haven't used ours yet
we'd like to use ours
no
i haven't
yeah
so it doesn't jam up
yes
i have
it was my dad's and i i used it with him
and was able to paint some things
and uh
and he said he didn't need it anymore
and he he gave it to us
and we haven't had a chance to or need to paint anything down here yet
i i'm kind of leery about using it inside um because it does put a lot of particles and mist in the air
that i didn't want to get all over the carpet
or
yes
uh_huh
it it snowed huh
that's about the only snow we can get down here in texas
if it if it were a white paint
you probably used a a uh redwood color or a stain didn't you
oh it was
yeah
that's right
that's right
oh
yeah
uh_huh
oh good
uh_huh
well the the weather
i understand was pretty good at that time
yeah
the weather
the weather is beautiful down here
real nice real nice
it got up to about seventy five degrees down here
and that's kind of the right temperature to be painting things
but
yeah
it's uh we would like to like to do a little bit more we'll probably do some we were working recently out on our spa
so have you remodeled your house recently
can you do that yourself or do you have it done
and then you put putty around the edges
i'm i'm impressed that you did that though
we uh live in our current house about three years
and we've only done minor repairs like painting and we did put a new roof on
but previously we had owned a eighty year old house in another city
and that's where i got my real experience at repairs and so i've replaced many windows
but they had wooden they were wooden windows
and uh i don't know for some reason it the putty seems easier or something because it blended in
well we had a lot of it done
i can't claim to have done much of it
it had wood floors that we had [refinished] commercially so that they were all uh even i forgot what you call that where you skim the top and then [revarnish] and we had it had real plaster walls
so we had a lot of [plasterwork] done we bought when we bought the house
uh most of the walls were covered in fabric and although it was sort of pretty when we went through it once that the previous owners had their furniture out
it looked pretty bad
so we then we took down the uh fabric to find huge plaster cracks not unexpected i suppose
so we repaired a lot of that
and then uh we didn't do any real major we moved just a couple walls and we put in new bathroom fixture not we kept the fixtures but we put in like a new we did put in a new [bathtub]
and then we sort of bought the antique looking you know the brass plumbing type thing
although it was new
i like old houses
but it just everyone talks about it
it's true small bathrooms and small closets
and plumbing you have to know a lot about plumbing
that's right
you know we had we ran into an interesting [complication] uh our house
it had fifty six windows
so we decided
you know with an exorbitant heat bill we decided one way we would attack that we put storm windows on
and then we put insulation in the attic a a lot of it because we didn't have very much
the problem
and we never [anticipated] it was in the summertime the humidity it it would rise and in the [stairwell] at the top of the [stairwell] it literally would uh the humidity would [condense] on the walls
so this the walls would sort of sweat
and when we had an engineer come out and talk he just said that we had over [insulated] our house
so it quote couldn't breath and so the humidity when it would you know the the highest point would go up there
and then and then would [condense] and it was it was really a problem
well not you could i don't know
i'm sure over the long term it would
and it would kind of cause sort of [streaky] pattern in the in the paint
uh we put in the first thing we tried we just put in a fan in that area
so that we could [circulate] the air and hope that that would help
uh we actually took a screen uh window off one of the windows to try and allow a little [ventilation] in that area
and then the truth
is it then became cooler weather and then we sold our house
and i never i always hope that the owners didn't have the same problem
next year it's all those things you don't necessarily want to tell them i don't know
i mean we weren't trying to be dishonest or anything
you just
we gave it
our best shot
but it was kind of ironic that we thought we were being so energy conscious
and perhaps we [overdid] it
its prettiest features it had beautiful wood molding high ceilings
and the and the floors were beautiful
but it much like the swiss avenue area in dallas
i don't i only have friends there
i don't think i have the energy or the money for those sort of beautiful old homes now
that's
yes sir
well uh you mean that i did or had done
either one
well actually um this whole past summer
i've had my whole outside of my house repainted and a lot of the little minor wood things corrected and just prior to that i had a a bathroom totally remodeled and rebuilt and uh so i've i'm bringing my house up to date really
we built the house in nineteen sixty
no
that's right
they they do change
and and the bathrooms you know if you have any water [leakage] anywhere can uh slowly deteriorate things
and so you got to plug those leaks up
uh_huh
is that right is the water level high there
uh_huh
oh well we just got about a an inch inch and a half last night
i see
i declare uh_huh
oh i see
are you doing this yourself
i declare oh well
uh_huh
that's true
these
lot of fellows are are really want to work pretty hard
so they're willing to come at little bit more reasonable prices
i'm sure of that
i just had some [guttering] also replaced on my home
uh i actually replaced all the other [guttering] last year
and the piece that i did this year seemed all right at the time
so i left it alone
that's what i put up this last time
it's one solid piece about thirty feet long
no
it was uh brought out on a truck
so they
i it was i have seen these things done
they uh they come on great big large wheels
i think of material and they roll it off
yeah
well as i say this was already uh they had come out and measured it and brought out the two pieces at the correct length and all they had to do was mount them and then uh seal one joint where the two ends came together
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
worked all right
huh
that's very very close
i as they say down south you done good
yeah
well that sounds great
yeah
well i've got this as we were talking earlier about my house
i've got one more bathroom
to rebuild and uh we also had a a a porch that extends out from our master bedroom
that we want to rebuild it's uh taken a beating over the years
and um now we're afraid to walk out on it because some of the wood is [deteriorating]
well let's see my last home repair
i put an office in my garage
i uh took down one of my uh uh two car garage doors and i uh i made an office out of it
and uh the funny thing was uh i i didn't think i needed a permit you know because i wasn't yeah
i wasn't changing the the looks of the of the outside
and my neighbor called the uh city on me
yeah
he turned me in
and i i was halfway done with the office
and uh so
oh well what they did was i i called i'm a contractor myself
and i'm i'm a roof contractor
so
uh i went down and got some permits from some uh roof work that we were doing
and i uh i talked to them about my you know my garage and uh so they said well you need to get a permit for this and that
and you know electrical and all that kind of stuff
so thing is the funny thing they they uh they wouldn't give me the permit because they needed a a pre inspection okay
so they came to do a pre inspection and they they didn't pass it because i didn't have a permit on site
oh we're i'm still in my office
and i still don't have one
and no
huh
uh yeah
yeah
so it's it's quite comical
in fact um i'm starting in my
i'm actually not starting my bathroom
but i couldn't help but start in my bathroom by uh taking a shower one day
i i uh put my hand on the on one of the towel walls to support myself and put my hand right through it
well um yeah
i think i
yeah
here in in plano
that's uh yeah
it's pretty strange
uh_huh
is that right
well here you know even uh even just putting the little uh uh patio walks you have to have a permit yeah
it's it's pretty strange
yeah
yeah
you have a i i think things you know are are different from city to city
or from state to state
but oh
well i i think my neighbor was a little bit uh [putout] because he came over to you know he he asked to to help me
and he's a pretty busy guy i thought anyway
and i said well i've i've got my guys from work
they're going to come over and do most of the work you know
i said i appreciate your your asking but it was funny because right
that just the day after he called
yeah
you know i i guess i should have let him come over and and did my garage
i mean i wouldn't have mind
but i you know
i thought he was he was pretty busy
and and wouldn't have time to do it
but that's how things are
no
actually um
we do um
yeah
well we don't install we we do mostly repairs
we do some uh [reroofing] built up roofs
and uh but we do repair uh metal roofs
yeah
uh_huh
we do that
yeah
uh we do work we do mostly commercial stuff
uh and we do work on a lot of metal roofs
but we we don't install them
we just uh uh repair them
uh_huh
uh i'd be real careful extreme temperature changes uh effect the metal roofs
it it expands and [retracts] and um just
see i don't have much time myself for that kind of thing
but uh i have my father was uh quite handy
he died recently
but uh uh i have done limited things like for example i've built uh uh tree house for my kids
and uh i really enjoy doing it
i just don't have the time
uh
so
uh
uh_huh
um
absolutely
well have you ever done any remodeling
you know it's very interesting
my uh father and i built a a home a new home for ourselves from basically from the ground up when i was a teenager
and uh it's amazing how these things work one of most
amazing things is to me is that
what appears to be the major part of the work basically putting the structure up happens very quickly
but then you know comes the inside and the trim and the electrical work and the fixtures and the appliances and it seems like ninety percent of the time
it was very frustrating takes a long time to get that house done
i see
yeah
um
um
um
do do people change out these things before they fail
or
uh_huh
they can cause a lot of damage
i know
uh_huh
yeah
the small those small projects are [manageable] you know i i fix toilets and things like that
but when it comes to major uh projects putting in uh in extra [stairways] or putting on an extra room or something like that
i just absolutely do not have the time to do that
the the frustrating thing is that i enjoy doing it
but uh you know i work
you been doing in your house
yeah
where you live
austin okay
great
well we
yeah
as soon as it stops raining a little bit huh
yeah
yeah
great
have you done much uh much in the way of home repairs
oh yeah
great
how old a house do you have
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
great
oh well right now we're not we're living in a travel trailer
but uh we've we've just moved here to dallas uh recently
and we're living in that until we can find a place
but uh we lived in a brick homes in uh in louisiana before this and did some uh various kinds of things uh made some storm windows to put up and uh uh really did a major [rejob] on the inside of the house uh put up some walls and uh put in a bathroom and stuff like that
so
uh_huh
oh yeah
wow that's pretty good
oh yeah
uh_huh
do you think it was worth uh the ceiling fans on your resale uh_huh
yeah
sure
well so you think you'll do it again some time
is that right
yeah
um
uh_huh
yeah
it sounds like you've got a good bit of experience in that
uh_huh
sure
we're thinking about possibly building a house now we aren't real sure whether we're going to be able to do that or not
but we just talked to a builder today as a matter of fact that you know just uh beginning to think about [sketching] out some plans and talked about some of the different uh ways to go on you know different things
yeah
it sounds like you're uh really into uh remodeling what
you get
yeah
okay
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
how far away from austin is it
oh yeah
well as as a matter of fact about two years ago right now uh i've completely and totally remodeled and restored my kitchen
yeah
i uh i tore out the uh walls all the way down to the [studs] and started over we had had a uh the kitchen
we've we had was um it had a paneling in it dark paneling
and and the cabinets were sort of old
and it was just dark in here and old cabinets and uh counter tops
at first i we were just going to paint the thing
and you know how everything just sort of grows and uh so i ended up just just tearing out the whole place
and uh putting sheet rock in and building my own cabinets with ceramic tile on the counter tops and just everything
new floor
well uh i'm fairly good at it
not not not enough to be professional or anything
but i can do my own
yeah
uh_huh
i love that
it's it's really pretty
we had just uh [formica] and when i built the new cabinets uh i looked into this tile deal
and i thought well you know i think we can probably do this
and um it was uh it was not not hard at all
um it just i just followed the instructions the basic instructions that you use with the tile and uh they're not hard at all really it's just about anybody can do that
no
not at all um uh what we what i've been doing is just using some like [bleach] and it uh gets it clean
but it does it has [browned] over the the couple of years
you know
but it really don't look that bad
even though it has gotten brown you know what i should have done now that i think about it was used brown colored [grout] that's right
that's right you know because it does stain some you know you could [whiten] it
but i never have
um about three months probably three or four months
yeah
yeah
well it was for a while the worst part about it was
we had to do it when i got to the sink part over here
what i did was i left this cabinet just about this one wall where the sink is to the very last
so we can keep the sink as long as possible
and then we we were without a sink about a week or a week and a half or so
and uh what we had to do was just take the dishes
and uh put them in a big dish pan
and get water from the bath tub and then rinse them in you know with the bath not not in the tub
but you're just letting it run under there you know
really
yeah
we did eat out a lot
not a thing not a thing i almost thought i had cut through a water pipe in the wall
but i didn't i just [nicked] it a little bit
it wasn't all the way through
and now that was about it
yeah
well have you have you done anything like that
or or anything smaller
or
uh_huh
oh no
no
there is nothing like that here either
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
sure
right
right
oh sure
yeah
it does
that's right
you are
and you're half and half
yeah
oh
oh i understand
yeah
a little latch like
yeah
right
well yeah
yeah
everything is still so brand new
yeah
uh_huh
oh i see
well yeah
sure
no
yeah
now something like that i would probably have
no
there's really not very many
when i went to school there was probably three you know with various ages
but you don't you don't find that name very often
uh we just got through having the ceiling in the kitchen touched up
the roof we had a lot of rain
and the roof was leaking and it went down and had a big spot on the ceiling and we intended to to fix it
our self and that didn't work
so we ended up hiring just uh a handy man
and it turned into a huge project for him
and he couldn't he tried to match the spot he couldn't match it and ended up having to do the whole ceiling over
uh_huh
yeah
i think so
but we tried just at first just kind of spackling it it's one of those type ceilings
this is an older house
and we trying to just repair that and match the the uh texture and couldn't do that
and then it's
i'm not even sure what it is it's not like the kind at my mother's house is a blown texture and this is an old older house
and it's kind of a sponge is what it looks like to me
that they took the uh plaster and kind of [sponged] it
but it's a different pattern and he had so much trouble trying to match it
and the paint and everything he finally just had to redo the whole ceiling repaint the whole thing
uh_huh
but he uh i was surprised he stuck with the price that he had quoted which was just a couple a hundred dollars to fix the one place
and then he found out that the beam there was not support to attach his stuff to
and it turned out to be a mess
he
finally finally got it finished
it does
i was cause it took several days
and i work
so he would go on and on during the during the day
and then i would just have to come home and call him at night and say excuse me this doesn't look good
because he was going to let it go if i hadn't said anything at first when it didn't match and stuff he was just going to go with that
and i am sure no body would notice if they come in and they don't look up immediately
but i noticed but when he fixed it
but this the house it belongs to my father in law and our deal as far as living here
and each month we fix something
and we put a deck in and we landscaped the yard and we put new carpeting in and we put new linoleum and then we had the ceiling fixed and put a new floor in the bathroom and wallpaper but just as soon as you get finished with one job
it's time for another
oh
well see you chose a good job
well congratulations
when is your baby due
uh_huh
well that good
well what's the last home improvement you did
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
yeah
well i repaired the back fence
it's a
well of course they get old you know after about ten years anyway
but uh
well the the the [alley's] on a kind of a slant
and it makes all the fences [tilt] or or slowly you know
yeah
somewhat right
uh_huh
um had to replace the the ridge row the shingles on the corners of the the roof
from all the storms and everything
and uh
right
yeah
uh_huh
weather [proofing] and
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
and then it's that it's that white paint i've forgotten what it's called [ti] bond or something like that
and those bricks are very [porous] and it [soaks] into those bricks really well
and it seals all the water out
just a little bit
yeah
they use it all the time
yeah
it seals the water out
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
i'm from dallas
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
and it's set into the earth
so
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
okay  
did you vote in the last uh national election  
oh that's good  
i voted in the last national one  
yeah  
i'm not sure  
if i got the last local one  
yeah  
you're not sure where to go and vote and all that  
right  
or you don't know what they you know where they stand or anything like that  
yeah  
i think you're right  
yeah  
or sometimes they don't like either of the choices   for the candidates  
so they think well you know why vote  
yeah  
really  
especially in texas  
it really was  
yeah  
yeah  
did they get the serious problem that half the people don't vote  
yeah  
yeah  
it also seems like maybe another candidate that nobody wants could slip in   if you know not enough people are voting  
yeah  
it's kind of like in louisiana where that uh guy that's like a [ku] [klux] [klan]   member something got elected  
kind of scary when you think about that  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
people will sit home and assume oh that guy would never get elected  
next thing you know you've got him  
yeah  
right yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
he sure did  
yeah  
i think one thing that maybe would help people vote is if the polls were either open more days or you could mail it in or something like if you have if you have real strict work hours and you can only go like at seven in the morning or after work and you have to stand in line for so long  
i think that [discourages] a lot of people  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm in dallas  
and they're long here too  
yeah  
i voted absentee one year  
i really was going to be gone  
so i did it  
but uh it was nice  
i would be tempted to do it again  
right  
yeah  
i think they should change the whole system so that it's easier  
i think more people would do it if it wasn't such a hassle  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that would be  
i usually vote  
a lot of times i'll vote a straight party ticket just because i don't take the time to find out what every you know other than the major candidates what they stand for   on what issues  
so i'll just trust well the party kind of goes along these lines so i'll go ahead and vote  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
i guess it'd be best if you knew each person and what they stood for and why and everything  
right  
and try to determine if what you read was objective or not  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it could affect the outcome you know could make it unfair  
oh yeah  
yeah  
the press has a lot of power  
yeah  
oh but boy you try get into that  
you'd really open a can of worms  
yeah  
seems that they should regulate themselves a little bit  
and i don't think they ever care to  
well i can't think of anything else really about the polls or voting to talk about  
well it was good talking to you  
bye  
yes  
we uh uh i haven't missed a one since i've been eligible to vote  
did you get to vote at the last one  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
and sometimes the the local ones aren't as publicized it seems that uh they should be  
right  
and uh there's usually nobody running against you know the incumbents  
right  
so uh but i i feel that uh a lot of people have gotten lazy about voting  
and it's it's they're  
and also they're fed up with the system  
and they say well why should i even vote  
right  
right  
the lesser of the two evils is how we usually look at it  
oh i know it  
the last gubernatorial race was oh it was awful  
so i don't know  
i i  
it'll be interesting to see how the next uh few years go  
yeah  
i think well it's it's definitely a problem  
and i think it could get worse  
you know we get this [lackadaisical] attitude  
and say huh you know why should we vote  
then you know it could uh it could lead to some serious things  
uh_huh  
right uh  
yeah  
we can get uh yeah if we get someone in there like that then you know they could make all sorts of changes that they were you know had enough pull  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and uh who's the other guy [larouche] that uh is sort of the uh socialist not socialist but  
he's so off the wall that uh he's gone in and tried to get into city elections  
and uh but he's got he's been put away for uh credit card fraud i believe  
yeah  
[lyndon] [larouche] that's it  
and uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
if you don't go and vote then you know very good chance that they they will   because a lot of the people like that they'll strike a [chord] in something you know in some of the people that so will say look you know this guy's got everything together  
you know i like what he says  
and he'll be so far off the wall that they'll elect him  
and uh i think that's sort of what happened with louisiana   because because um the guy did get elected correct  
that's what i thought  
and uh but you know they can always fool us you know  
he might do a good job  
oh yeah  
what we do usually is uh vote uh [absenteeism]  

and uh i know here you know you don't have to have any reason  
you can just go and vote  
and the polls are open what was it a couple of weeks  
the hours are good  
and they're even open on saturdays   and a couple of sundays  
and so we've got plenty of time to go because down here in houston it's uh the lines are long  
so uh but uh  
well uh i recommend it because you just walk right on in and there's usually not anybody in line  
and uh you know that [vote's] just as good as you know the one on election day  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um yeah  
i've been involved with uh some of the campaigns and the state conventions of the of the republican party  
and it's really interesting to see the process as far as what goes through as far as the voting and the uh how the uh the not the [ballots]  
but uh my mind has gone blank  
i've been all evening   how they develop uh what the candidate stands for  
you know the views and uh you know everybody gets to vote on you know well should he be for this and on and on and on  
and uh it's it's interesting  
uh_huh  
right  
there for a while that would that worked  
we've uh i know i have um  
i'll stick to uh to the you know sometimes i'll stick to a certain party depends on the guy  
but uh if it uh gets down between two then i'll i'll vote for the party   because i know you know something about the other guy  
or you know they're both just as bad  
and i'll say well i know what this guy stands for as far as for his party  
and um but  
yeah  
you know that's not the best way  
but  
but it gets to the point where  
i mean you've got to have the find the time also to read about the guy and and be able to find the information about what he stands for  
right  
or what you've heard on t v which i think is just outrageous  
i i don't agree with how the media handles elections  
i you know i'm tired of hearing about the polls you know you know  
this is how he stands such and such a day   the way they break it out  
it's just it's just ridiculous  
uh_huh  
it really could  
and uh then how sometimes how the media will blow things out of proportion and will run an issue into the ground which is good and dead  
and they keep dragging it on  
and it could hamper the outcome of an election for the guy that should have won  
yeah  
so uh  
they really do  
i i sometimes think that that should be limited more  
oh yes  
or they i agree with the freedom of the press you know and all the [amendments]  
but sometimes it's for the public's own good that we don't hear things  
no  
they don't  
well i enjoyed talking to you  
all right  
bye bye  
all right  
we need to discuss the voters   on a national and a local level  
why do you think the apathy exists  
i blame it to apathy  
why should i go out of my way when it doesn't matter  
oh i think so too  
and i think the other thing is the news media puts such a [blitz] on it that they had it [predetermined] with a half of one percent voting you know  
and i i think the you hear the news you know you start out in the morning and all day you hear the news  
and by time say you get off work and go to vote you feel like it doesn't make any difference   due to the [overabundance] of news we have available to us  
what do you think on the local elections though  
oh i think so too  
absolutely  
uh i think another thing  
and uh i'm making a judgment here that may or may  
i think it is totally wrong  
well  
i think that the people that are have um a lower income which you automatically equate with lower education   tend not to be registered  
and they don't register  
and they don't understand that you can't go and vote and register all at the same time  
or when it gets down to the point of someone saying are you going to vote today they say well i would  
and i believe in this  
but  
i had an interesting comment one time a thought that would never have crossed my mind  
i had someone tell me that i will never register to vote because i don't want to serve on a jury  
i just i they i just wandered off from that one  
i was just so surprised and amazed with the statement that they say only registered voters can be picked for jury selection  
so they  
if they don't vote they don't have to be on a jury  
there is [convoluted] logic for you  
yes  
oh i just  
right  
right  
there are so many other ways  
but that one it just defeated me  
i didn't have any answer for that one  
that one was just beyond my imagination  
that's a good point  
you're probably right  
which  
and that was what i was thinking exactly about because in the soviet union they had an election  
and they had what like a ninety eight percent turnout  
a massive turnout  
at last someone wants us to vote  
they were standing in lines to vote  
and their vote didn't count  
or any one shows up  
total [indifference] you know  
what difference does it make  
back   gone the full circle  
oh certainly there's a message there   even if they lose  
oh and i think women turn out to vote for women too  
yeah  
i  
well i know it's true  
you see a lot of that you know rally behind the female  
she may lose  
but by golly we're going to make a statement here   you know  
oh okay  
was was that the time  
no  
that was eighty four  
that's too soon  
she said something about uh ginger rogers did everything fred [astaire] did  
and she did it backwards in high heels  
she said that  
i didn't  
said you know  
don't tell me what women can do  
i think i did vote for her as a matter of fact  
i'm pretty sure i did  
well and some of the issues are so emotional  
you know some of the really the really emotional ones  
have you followed the dallas elections on [zoning]  
i  
everyone has made so many statements  
i don't live in dallas county  
but i've heard so many statements that i've lost track  
i honestly at this point  
it's it's just too blown out of proportion for everyone  
you really  
even the news you cannot follow   what the the actual facts are at this point  
i don't i don't really know if some of the poor judges that are trying to decide how it should be divided  
i wonder about them at some point  
that's correct  
and that's and that's another interesting question  
should judges be elected or appointed  
are they politicians  
sure  
or you want to take the other side of it you can argue  
that's one of those you can pick either side  
and we could spend a lot of time on it   because it's it's difficult  
it's [situational] really  
uh uh  
oh  
um  
well this is true  
this is true  
i was worrying along the lines of you get every time someone puts in a ballot in a ballot box   a dollar bill comes out the bottom  
that might work in some places  
yes  
i i  
yeah  
um i i suspect the apathy is due to something like people just feeling that that their vote doesn't count anyway  
i mean why why bother voting if um if your vote won't make a difference  
so for instance in um the last presidential election i'm sure a lot of people thought oh bush is going to win either way  
why bother voting  
that's right  
i think that's  
and and the other side of the coin is um people saying well if i really like the underdog candidate i still think they're not going to win  
so are only the same two [caucuses] certainly not going to win why bother voting for him  
so i i think that's a big uh a big a big reason for it  
how  
um that's true  
actually i never thought about that  
that that's a good  
that's true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
i think on the local elections it's actually um  
i think um i think people vote in the larger elections because they feel like well you know the country's real important  
and you know if i if we help elect a president who's going to save us then then the whole country will be saved  
but they figure local elections don't mean that much i suspect  
so people don't really worry about their local mayor or something figuring that you know and i think wrongly figuring that that well what good is another mayor going to do anyway because our federal taxes are more important right now and you know and stuff like that  
so people think that that that they don't have um that that it doesn't matter as much whereas i think it's probably just the opposite is true  
i think it's probably the case that people could have more effect on a local level  
uh  
right  
um  
right  
but  
yeah  
that's that's possible  
i still think that a lot of those people are the ones who really think that their votes don't make a difference though as well  
i think it's those same people who don't know any better about how we vote are are are a lot of the people who think that well look at me i'm just a little nobody  
my [vote's] not going to count anyway  
you know and i think that's probably a portion of the population that massively under  
i i i would guess that that portion of the population is massively under represented  
um  
what do they have to do with one another  
oh so they didn't want to wind up being a juror ever  
oh i didn't realize that actually  
that  
yeah  
there is  
there are much easier ways to get out of jury duty  
just go in and say oh i want to be a juror  
i can spot a guilty person a mile away  
well that that just seems to be a person who just doesn't care about much of anything around sort of you know doesn't doesn't sort of likes rights probably but doesn't like responsibilities  
i mean that's what it boils down to is people like to people say oh i don't want to be on jury you know  
i don't want to serve on jury duty  
i don't want to vote  
i don't want to do this and that  
well then they could you know put them in the reverse situation in the place where they don't have the right to be on jury duty  
and they don't have the right to vote  
i suspect their opinions would change very quickly  
yes  
yes  
they were they were doing that  
unfortunately what what they they had no idea what they were voting on it turns out  
that's right  
but but it's the thought they all got out  
but you wonder if you know if if now the next election they have if only half of them are going to show up  
or how many generations it will take until only half of the voters show up in russia  
right  
that's that's true  
right  
now if things go the way that that that they are there i think that they'll keep voting  
but i think they'll wind up like us at some point where people sort of only half of them will end up voting and sort of caring enough to really make a statement  
so you know i think i think that that the people who most need to vote sometimes are the are the ones who who are really out to make a statement because you know when when when you've got an underdog candidate who represents something and even if he doesn't win a large number of people voting for that particular candidate does i think make a statement   to everyone else  
yeah  
i think  
and i think that's real important  
that's probably true  
um  
that's good  
that's actually really good  
well  
actually the female who i would most rally behind right now right i don't know much about her politics by the way the way she makes speeches is a local person for you is ann richards  
i don't know her politics  
i just know that uh i saw her speak in the eighty four democratic convention  
and right then and there if they said to me vote for someone for president i would have slapped down my vote for ann richards  
that's very good  
that's that's that's that's very good  
that's  
i i like that  
so i would uh i would vote for her  
and i suspect she could get a large voter turnout  
say i i i would think that um that that people like that  
i think [inflammatory] politicians are um  
or or emotional politicians certain very [vibrant] politicians tend to bring crowds out i think  
i would hope  
uh_huh  
no  
i've heard of it  
but not necessarily the  
i've heard it's very controversial though  
uh_huh  
um  
yes   that's what  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
well they were elected as well  
so   so so they're going to be  
that's true  
that's true  
well   well in some sense they should be politicians in that you know you want them to respect the people  
and you don't want them to have you don't want a judge to be appointed because you don't want someone's friend to be a judge  
but on the other hand  
right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
so how do you think we can get people to vote  
i've had one idea that i think is is is completely [undoable]  
but but i think  
but i suspect it would work  
and the way to do it is to get an absolutely atrocious candidate who you never expect to win to go out and make [inflammatory] and ridiculous and stupid statements so that a large population of of voters will go out and vote against that person for someone else  
so given a choice between you know  
so that  
so if you have  
so if if  
imagine a world where you have two real candidates and one idiot who goes out and makes you know anti you know sort of um anti women statements anti [semitic] statements anti black statements et cetera et cetera  
well then i suspect a lot of people would go out and choose a candidate to vote for just just to spite that person  
but i don't think   that that would actually ever work  
uh_huh  
that's an interesting notion  
that that that that would be interesting  
yes  
i think that would work in some places  
yeah  
okay um  
what do you think about the war recently  
uh_huh  
uh the economy  
the  
our soldiers going over uh  
just everything  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's the first thing i thought of  
i don't know  
right  
right  
right  
and  
i know that uh i've heard people say that you know when people that went to world war two  
you couldn't become a political figure or president unless you had served in the war  
but then in vietnam that was totally different you know  
you couldn't be a political figure if you were in vietnam probably  
and now   if you've served in desert storm you probably would be a a good candidate  
exactly exactly  
oh torn apart  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
so it  
that's also a good reason why it it  
or good that it ended as soon as it did  
uh_huh  
exactly  
and it seems like everything is raising everything that can be cigarettes   not that i smoke but cigarettes um uh stamps  
i mean it seems like  
exactly  
everything single thing that we do   is higher  
you know and they just raised the minimum wage today  
but that's not like you know   as much as they should have raised it i'm sure  
but uh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
i don't i don't have any children or anything right now  
i'm uh i work as a news reporter in waco  
and so  
i get to see  
i got to see a lot of not [firsthand] but uh probably a good part of the war um as far as what people thought about it   and a lot of things like that  
so  
it was kind of amazing  
people were coming to me to ask me you know what's going on you know like i knew   or like i sat in on the meetings or something  
yeah  
yeah  
so i got to hear a lot of what the people thought about you know changes in in the war and everything  
so that was pretty interesting  
yeah  
exactly  
be everything be [supermom]  
exactly   uh_huh  
right  
and  
whereas it would have been  
exactly um  
right  
the roles are changing a lot  
right  
and even you know i think a lot of the movies we see now kind of kind of play a good part in our changes  
because you see that they have the three men and a baby type movies  
and i think you know that  
yeah  
and then you have the women uh detectives now and you know different roles  
just in what we see  
and so we probably want to do that even more now   you know since the women's movement in the seventies  
and you know we've come a long way but i think it's still a still have a good ways to go  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
it's just not as  
exactly  
but it's  
i mean like i say we've come a long way but we have i mean twice as far to go   still  
and i don't think a lot of people you know realize a lot the plight of a lot of people   you know and you may be in good standing and everything may look [hunky] [dory] to you   but there's so many more people   exactly that you don't even   and that you don't even see or know about  
oh oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i grew up in   in brooklyn new york  
and so i was just i was just surrounded you know by black people  
because i'm black  
and so you know i lived that's where i lived  
and so now i i feel lucky actually because i've almost lived around everyone  
i've i went to u t to college  
and so they you know they have a lot of different people go there   different kinds of people  
and so i feel really [enriched] in that a lot of people don't get to see  
you know some people have lived in lewisville all their life you know   and so they don't get to see  
exactly and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
it is  
oh my god  
well there's so many people who have never you know even gotten to do that  
so that's great  
my sister was telling me she met a she's going to the university of pennsylvania in in philadelphia  
and uh she just met a girl from um i think [barbados] or jamaica or something   like that  
and i mean this girl she had like two outfits that she would just wear all the time   and everything  
and   she got some kind of money from her government like five hundred dollars  
so my sister had to take her shopping and you know show her what to wear show her how to match up colors  
and   i just thought that was so very exciting   you know to go and and just witness you know this girl just coming to america type thing you know  
so you know i would have loved it the opportunity to do that  
but  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
the latest cereal about you know  
yeah  
that's ridiculous   too  
when i first moved here i was only thirteen but everyone had a car in school you know  
and i couldn't and i just couldn't you know  
i was from new york and so you know we road the bus  
and if you had a  
yeah  
exactly  
and if you had a car there was nowhere to park it anyway  
or you know it's just  
you just didn't have a car  
but then we came here and they had parking lots in the schools  
and i couldn't understand it  
you know all the kids had cars  
and they you know have to have a car  
so that was  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
really  
or live really close to school and have them walk  
but  
uh yeah  
a lot of changes  
so  
i think so  
okay  
well it's good it's good talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
the war  
you mean in terms of the economy  
or  
oh  
i thought we were going to talk about social changes  
is that is that what  
you're kind   of directing it  
oh okay  
okay  
well   um well i think it's caused a lot of you know big difference between when people had gone to war before   like compared to vietnam  
because   i mean i know that there was so much more support for the soldiers going over  
and even people that didn't agree with the war still seem to be able to separate that   you know and support the soldiers  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
it would be like a bonus for your   image or something  
yeah  
it  
i'm sure it caused a lot of changes in terms of how many families had to have their income   just drastically [altered]  
we had people down the street that the guy was in the reserves and he was just about ready to go and they have a just had a new baby  
and uh they would have she would have had to go back to work  
and   i think she said their income would have dropped by like two thirds  
yeah  
yeah  
i think the biggest change that we've seen um in in my life or whatever lately is the economy    
and things are so tight  
and like my husband hasn't gotten a raise in two years  
and   you know  
yeah  
even dog licenses  
i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
going to effect too many  
yeah  
yeah  
so that's the hardest thing for us  
and um we've been trying to kind of maintain traditional lifestyle in the sense of meaning home  
we have a three year old and a two year old  
and i'm trying to stay home as long as i can  
but you know every week it gets harder  
because i could go out and be making money  
you know so that's a big uh stress i think   you know for the social changes in our family  
oh  
i see  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
you have an inside track or something  
yeah  
yeah  
let's see  
what other social changes in the past ten years oh  
i guess between men and women i've seen a lot of changes   in terms of women feeling like they have to have a career be mom be   everything [superperson]  
yeah  
because i know you know i i really get pressure from because i have a career also  
and i get a lot of pressure from people that you know my colleagues  
that  
why am i staying home you know  
whereas before that never would have happened  
people would have said why are you going to work  
so that's kind of a difference for us  
i think there's more pressure to um not necessarily a negative thing but on my husband to be more involved with the family  
so he's  
yeah  
he's gotten a lot uh you know  
you see all kinds of men being involved in the housework and taking care of the kids and all  
but in terms of his amount of hours at work nothing on that has [lightened] up  
so it's now he has the pressure too of being [superdad] and [supercareer]  
and  
yeah  
that's true  
mister mom  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
i think there's still  
i i know that um i grew up in chicago in the sixties  
and was part  
my family was real liberal  
and i think there's a lot of um kind of myths that we've come a long way just in terms of our society   and race relations and things like that  
and you know i think there's so much prejudice still there  

and it's kind of more [covert] now  
people used to be more clear and say   you know well i believe in this or i believe in that  
and now you know i think there's still tremendous amount of prejudice  
but people think oh we're in the nineties we're beyond all that you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but there's so many more people   that are homeless  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
it's real easy to get isolated in your own little community  
you know because when i was growing up in chicago um we were in a real ethnic neighborhood  
and there were people from all first generation chinese german you know all different nationalities   and everything  
and now we're kind of like in lewisville miss white little [suburbia]   you know  
i mean i don't even know anybody that   you know from any place other than texas hardly   you know  
oh boy  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and they   they think the whole world is like that  
we lived in a dorm  
my husband and i met in graduate school   at indiana university  
and i was ours was uh international you know co ed dorm  
and there were twelve hundred students  
they're graduate students from all over the world  
and once we came here it was like  
gosh  
i just miss that  
because it really is exciting   to be around people of different cultures and different backgrounds  
we got invited to  
one guy practically [roasted] a goat in his in his dorm  
i wonder if he was from iran or some place  
i don't know where  
but um you know   yeah  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh god  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
that is part   of the change i think that i've seen probably you know in the past twenty years or whatever is now kids have to have so much  
i mean i even get caught up in it with our kids   even though i buy most of the things at garage sales for their christmas  
i mean people you know think they're kids have to have five hundred dollars worth of toys  
oh yeah  
it's just  
it it's  
oh gosh  
yeah  
me too  
in chicago   i didn't even date a guy that had a car until i was in college  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh gosh  
my kids are going to be [hating] me  
i'll give them a bike and say   here's it  
so you can afford to pay the insurance   you know  
yeah  
no   kidding  
yeah  
well did we cover it everything betty  
okay  
i guess i'll get back to my laundry  
you too  
good luck  
bye bye  
so uh tell me about changes from say twenty years ago since you were an adult twenty years ago  
well you're you're able to you're able to uh vote and go to war and things like that  
so  
oh that's right  
that's one of the changes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and is the company now uh well represented uh [demographically] at the higher [echelons]  
did it work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so there's less you think now there's less of a a social movement and more individual lots of individual movements   in a sense  
the me decade  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that i've been aware of i've  
at least in my own circles i've been aware of an increasing from my generation  
i don't know if i can quite call myself a distinct generation from you  
but half generation off i guess  
um i've noticed uh a certain increase um [pessimism] with america no longer being sort of on top  
i had the impression  
well i mean there was the quote unquote losing of the vietnam war which was a blow  
and it was right around that time when i started becoming socially you know a socially conscious adult  
and i realize that people of my age have no um no major success in the sense that uh you saw the passage of the civil rights act and um major social change in that sense  
and i  
and all the changes that have happened in the last uh even during my [adulthood] have been more [incremental]  
they've been continual perhaps and good gains have been made  
but there hasn't been the same sort of [fiery] speeches of martin [luther] king or whatever that has really uh [galvanized] the population  
and there's just  
instead there's been sort of an increasing oh i don't know japan [bashing] and things like that  
and uh a lot of  
i see among some of my friends and even more among some of my students who are you know maybe twenty a real sense of you know america's losing it  
and losing it in the competitive market  
and a real uh  
a lack of understanding how that could be in the sense that how could america have gone from being number one to possibly being number two  
to  
you know our former enemies and things like that  
and uh so i see i see a lot of uh a lot of [pessimism] growing  
um and at the same time i think there's there's there's a growing [environmentalist] movement and sense of corporate increased corporate responsible towards uh you know environmental safety and things like that  
and that might potentially be sort of the civil right the equivalent of the civil rights act in in the near future in terms of you know some real landmark bills passing and things like that  
such that you know people  
the thing about civil rights is people take it for granted now  
i mean my generation doesn't can't rest on the the [glow] of having achieved civil rights because we were born into an assumption that you know yes there's still some racism  
but you know basically things are  
the assumption things are basically kind of taken care of  
and there's a notion of [fairness]  
that's um  
while still far from perfect is much more established i think  
uh_huh  
oh of course  
it's human nature  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes   uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and that's a real change except it sort of brings back to the nineteen forties more than anything else  
i mean all this recycling used to be in tact   or not all of it  
but much of it did  
i mean recycling was a was a wartime thing  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
a perceived decline anyway yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'd i'd say actually i mean as someone who's involved in education i'd say that maybe one of the changes is that the role of the teacher has [incrementally] gotten lower and lower value and society  
i mean relative pay which is a major way we value people has been poorer and poorer over the years  
uh you know that  
there's been cost of living increases  
but not quite in proportion to cost of living  
and you know it's just more and more uh a real low income sort of job and very low prestige  
i mean there's that that old saying those who can do it and those who can't teach  
this is the way of let's make fun of the teachers those are the people who can't do anything  
and if you have that kind of social attitude it's hard to get sufficient numbers of people who are going to [overlook] all of that work for lower pay work for low social prestige just because they care about good education  
and you get more and more people and up there because it's uh it's the safety net of those of you know average intelligence or something they can always teach  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well let's see well we assume i was an adult twenty years ago um  
yeah  
definitely able to go to war twenty years ago but not vote  
not vote  
that was one of the changes that came about in the last twenty years  
um yeah  
twenty years ago is nineteen seventy  
uh nineteen seventy i had been married two years  
um we had all the great civil rights legislation of nineteen sixty eight  
and uh around here on the uh east coast uh   we were heavy into affirmative action  
and uh that was a uh a great shock for a lot of people   and uh a great disappointment for some people like myself  
um i was [gainfully] employed by safeway stores incorporated   and uh trying desperately to uh get ahead with the company  
uh the problem was that my hair was too long  
and uh you weren't allowed to have a uh [mustache] or a beard  
and uh   you know jeans just flat out weren't allowed   unless you worked on night stock  
and   if you wanted to get ahead with the company  
well if you were a uh black female you were [destined] to be store manager in six to nine months  
if you were white male you're talking six years  
and that's basically where i ended up  
i uh i just flat out couldn't get hold you know get ahead with the company because they were dead in affirmative action   um on other [fronts] um  
um  
i think so  
i i i i stopped working for them in uh seventy eight seventy nine  
and uh it's  
i think they're they're like all companies well represented  
and uh you know everything seems to be fine  
i i've kind of lost touch with the company  
we had a falling out  
but uh as far as uh as their management goes um i'm not sure they're any any better off than they were were before management wise  
but uh other changes um just people seem to be more outspoken now individually rather than [collectively]  
um back in the seventies we had uh a lot of uh [protests] against the war and uh bring our troops home  
and things were more organized  
and uh i've noticed that now more and more individual people are speaking out for their own rights rather than [massing] together  
um  
yeah  
i'm not sure if that was because you know eighties was like the uh the me decade  
and uh everybody was into me  
and then we are getting back into us  
but um it it it's  
i've seen uh uh a great deal of change as far as um corporate responsibility and things um  
and people's response to that you know at first not trusting and now expecting more  
and what what about the last ten years that you've been aware  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
but even uh i think uh along the line of the uh goals of civil rights   um there always seems to be some prejudice to someone by anyone  
i mean you know  
you know don't like the way you look don't like the way you dress don't like your hair don't like you know it's just something that always sets people off  
you know you either like someone or you don't like someone or you're just completely indifferent  
and the problem is that ideally you they you know the world would like you to be completely indifferent  
so um but i i i understand what you say about the environmental movement  
um it's it's been a long time coming  
um and being a uh a very old hippie   i mean you know if you had long hair in high school in the sixties you got labeled a hippie  
and you keep that image your whole life   no matter what you do  
and i i just  
i've seen a lot of changes i mean from the original earth day  
and um i'm heavily involved in you know my own personal recycling  
we recycle paper   and cans here at work  
and you know i do the newspaper and cardboard and paper and   you know all that stuff at home  
and i'm starting to see more and more recycling centers   [cropping] up all over the place here on the   east coast  
yeah  
like  
yeah  
and then they turned around and called them [junkyards] and   started making profits off   them after the war  
and now we got to the point where the [junkyards] you've got to pay them to take something there  
so things have really changed a lot  
i think the uh the other part about uh america's decline i think has to do with  
yeah  
the perceived decline has to do with uh um the attitudes and the educational system uh  
i have children in in i have three children in school right now  
and i'm not impressed with the teachers that are teaching them  
uh i had  
when i was down in dallas for two years i had uh my children come home from school with papers that were corrected by the teacher that had words spelled correctly marked wrong   and words spelled wrong not marked as such  
and this person's teaching my children  
you know i had a real problem with that  
yeah  
yeah  
um i'm not sure if your familiar with the movement they have here in maryland  
but they're trying to get a uh a uh a merit system here in maryland rather than a uh tenure system   for all the you know elementary middle school and high schools   so that the teach  
here we go  
well the changes that's occurred  
like it how was it maybe ten twenty thirty years ago as opposed to what it is today  
how we're living socially in comparison to maybe from that time period from ten twenty or whatever you remember it to be  
yeah  
we are uh somewhat conservative  
but as far as the uh socially our crime rate has increased  
and although it's more publicized as opposed to what it used to be it seems like   violent crime is on the increase from what i've seen  
and um our prison population has significantly increased i would say  
um our economy too is really it's just not what it used to be in the sixties or even fifties from history from what i've read  
and   uh even the  
well it started [spiraling] down i suppose in the seventies  
and uh our recovery uh economically has not been like it used to be  
to me also our nuclear family is not the same because more people are living together   that aren't married  
uh i don't i don't know if uh  
can't make any [judgments] of that nature  
but uh i don't really want to either   because i have no problems about it either way  
and um kids are i i suppose have been raised by single parents more than they ever used to  
women are more on the rise too   so far as getting their careers established  
and uh they don't   no longer feel dependent upon men  
that's probably true  
i mean they they are a lot of them that have to put their kids into day care   or having more with baby sitters  
and especially if they don't have boy friends or husbands  
and uh i guess that's why you always hear these stories about kids being neglected  
uh in fact uh there was one lady in this area  
she was caught going to work and leaving her daughter in her car all day  
not a baby she was old enough to uh  
i would say she was five to eight years old   somewhere along that range  
but that's just an extreme example  
i would imagine you know the situations are out there  
um  
i agree there  
yeah  
um i could agree with that because used to [conservatism] was inherent at a much younger age  
uh_huh  
that's an [agreeable] topic there  
um what else considering beside family economics um  
our transportation system has changed for us  
i mean we can we can now travel around the world in no time  
it's just a hop skip and a jump to get into a plane to go from the east to the west coast  
and uh well i i think what's happened too is just our technology is just advancing so rapidly that and there's so much information available out there that folks out there just have a hard time keeping up aside from just going through their daily routine of living to get from day to day  
and to keep abreast of the knowledge out there we got to constantly read go to school uh  
t v watching has sure hasn't gone too much out the door because t v is still well  
the cable system and the satellite dishes has made it to where a lot of people can just leave regular t v programming and watch a lot of other a variety of programs out there as well as use of the v c r  
so that i don't know if it really [hampers] or it helps our education system  
do you watch l a law  
i like that  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
at least you're hitting the books right  
uh_huh  
well that's a change then  
oh of course going to school too it's different from the home environment  
um  
i agree with your parents   because uh t v kind of ruined me  
because that's that's all that we had  
well not really  
but i mean it's uh for the top medium of entertainment  
even at your age  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
oh is there anything else  
um  
work ethics oh  
it's it's maybe getting better um a little  
of course we're having to weather through the savings and loans   all the other scandalous items that well the greed that overwhelmed us in the eighties  
and uh i think i think it's going to have to have it's [patchwork] put on us   because we have so much to pay for now  
it's going to be really passed on to your generation and maybe a few others   including what's left of ours  
well it was nice talking to you  
and uh what are majoring in  
okay  
um now we're supposed to talk about social activities  
right  
uh_huh  
i think um well i guess it would be like your generation compared to my generation  
i think your generation is um  
what do i say uh  
uh they're they're they're polite  
they have more respect for   other people just in in general i think and just just towards people and property  
and um i i guess they would would be more conservative some of them i guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes i agree with  
uh_huh  
well   well do you think that that maybe  
i mean uh i've heard different you know like um like  
i know my mom and like other ladies they complain because they think that um the women now are too busy with their own personal life and career that they really don't have time for their kids  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh my gosh just a baby  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well um um well i think the education like our education has um increased dramatically  
but then i think also that we're forgetting like basic things like we should know  
like i i think well um in the morals and values of like my generation for the most for most people are totally different from the morals and valleys um values of like per se your generation  
but i think as we get older it gets to your you know what i mean  
i think the kids now are are i would say louder now until after they reach like twenty five  
and then i think they really have a strong decline and start to settle down and realize things  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because i think we're given more now whereas you had to work for everything  
and kids nowadays are just given so much that they really don't have to work  
and you know and they they don't have any intent to go working until they have to  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't know because i know i don't watch while i'm up here at school i don't watch hardly any t v  
like thursday night i like to sit down and watch a few shows  
but i  
no  
i don't watch that  
i used to  
but i don't any more  
but all  
i mean there are even though there's a few up here we call them couch potatoes  
they love to sit in front of the t v  
i  
but for the most part i will i will  
well i live in an all girls dorm  
but for the most part we're all between the ages of eighteen and like twenty one  
and there isn't really a lot of t v watching  
they're either hitting the books or something else  
i don't know what  
but i know oh well i guess they have their crowds like during the soap operas you know like in between classes or something  
but i can't say that there's really that many people that like sit in front of the t v all day  
uh_huh  
but then um like i know this girl  
she's doing her student teaching  
or she's just working like within the school  
and um yesterday she was at the kindergarten  
and there's this little boy  
he like didn't want to do anything  
and he said i'm not doing this  
i don't like it  
and he sat at his desk with two [pencils] in his hand and pretend like he's playing nintendo   you know  
so uh i don't know how  
i mean i never really watched that a lot of t v when i was younger  
but my parents really didn't allow us to watch that much t v  
so i don't know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we watch a lot of i guess we watched a lot of t v in the winter time  
but in the summer like right now my mom well like she doesn't let us watch t v until like eight o'clock at night you know  
well like my younger brothers and sisters at home  
like when it starts   getting nice outside in the summer and everything   she'll she makes us go outside  
even now when i go home for the summer she makes us go outside  
and we're allowed to come in and watch t v until it's dark because she doesn't like the t v herself  
and if it was up to her we wouldn't have one  
so you know she feels that kids are too dependent on it also  
um  
what about in our work ethics  
i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
well i really can't think of anything else  
it was nice talking to you too  
okay  
so um how do think how do you think we've changed in the last ten to twenty years  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
well  
yeah  
really  
where'd you live up  
where'd you live at  
oh did you  
i'm from illinois  
so  
how long how long you been in dallas  
oh really  
yeah uh  
you know uh as you're talking like police and stuff like that it's definitely a tough job to do  
oh yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
i i definitely think that has gotten a lot worse  
and you know i i think there's  
to me there seems to be a little bit of a decline in the family values  
so  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think there's more pressure like on both parents to work and things like that than there used to be  
and  
so  
okay  
but uh i don't know  
that's just that's one thing i see i see a lot more you know double income families and a lot more like baby sitters raising the kids and things like that i guess  
yeah  
that's for sure  
yeah  
without it hardly  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
just because they can't get into one  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
the ways our tax laws and stuff are structured you can't ever catch a break until you can get into a house   in a lot of ways  
so yeah  
that's that's a good point  
so i'm trying to think of anything else that's changed over the last ten or twenty years  
oh yeah  
i agree  
well i hope so you know at some point  
but i don't know at what point  
yeah  
yeah  
it's uh  
yeah  
that's right  
do you work at t i  
do you  
what uh department do you work in  
are you  
i'm in semiconductor division too  
so how long you been with them since you moved down here  
um i'm over at the center one building  
are you really  
what floor  
i'm on the seventh floor  
how about that  
well it's a small world  
so so let's see  
second floor you work with uh [linear]  
do you do you uh do you know [alec] morton  
oh you do huh  
well he comes up and pushes us around  
so uh so i'm pretty familiar with  
huh  
yeah  
yep  
you must know him  
his reputation [precedes] him  
yeah  
well uh he uh boy he comes up there and gives us all kinds of grief  
they they say it's what makes him happy is to give us d a d grief  
so i can believe it  
but  
yeah  
let's see if you've been in dallas eight years i guess that's about how long  
i've been in here about eight years too i guess  
um been with t i like twelve  
but i started out in lubbock  
lubbock is  
i don't know  
i guess if this is the only place you've lived lubbock is a lot different than dallas  
yeah  
yeah  
but the people all seem to be a lot more laid back too  
i mean here in dallas everything is just real rush rush  
oh yeah  
well i got some friends that uh  
seems like he went to school at like [devry]  
is there a [devry] in [akron]  
oh  
oh i see  
well he went to school somewhere in ohio  
and he's from that area  
and uh he works over in the park park central building i think  
but uh i haven't talked to him in a while  
but um yeah  
he he misses it  
he used to go back twice or three times a year you know because he missed it  
sounds like you haven't been back there in a while  
you still have relatives back there  
or  
oh  
really  
well let's see  
how how long are we supposed to talk here  
yeah  
well my kids are probably needing me to go  
so  
all right  
well it's nice talking to you  
talk to you later  
bye  
uh i'm at a little bit of a loss  
you know i don't know  
ten years ago  
see i'm what i'm about uh twenty eight now  
so   when i was eighteen  
things haven't changed a whole lot  
people are being a little more oh i don't know a little a little less bigoted in some ways  
i don't know  
seems to me  
i guess i'm like my parents  
the younger generation gets away with hell  
but uh  
well it seems to me that civic freedoms are more restricted  
but that may just be because i've changed  
you know i used to live up north  
down here dallas seems to me the police are [militant]  
but uh  
i lived in [akron] ohio  
oh  
oh about eight years  
in fact in the eight years i've been here it seems to me it gets more and more gets to be more and more restrictive place to live   i think  
yeah  
i think it's  
crime has gone got a lot worse in the last   last ten fifteen years  
and maybe that has a lot to do with it  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
i'd say my own personal lifestyle has improved  
but that's more a matter of  
you know   i'm no longer a teenager in high school  
hello  
somebody's at the door  
hang on just a second  
okay  
yeah  
that's true  
it's getting more and more expensive to live  
you can't you can't make it  
i guess when i was growing up it was it was still the ideal to get a get a home and buy house  
and these days you see a lot of people living in apartments   forever  
you know you just don't buy a house  
yeah  
yeah  
for me it's kind of hard  
i don't know  
i think  
i don't know i think the middle class is shrinking and the uh lower class is expanding  
and sooner or later there's going to there's going to be a turn around  
but i think it's going to be at the expense of the middle class uh  
so usually is   i think  
it's hard for me to say  
i hope it happens because i'd be one of those that gets caught  
but on the other hand there's a lot of injustice that needs to be be changed  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm in semiconductor  
yeah  
about eight years  
yeah  
yeah  
so am i  
two  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
i've probably seen him around  
are you d a d or something up there  
are you d a d or something  
yeah  
well seventh floor  
t a d  
well  
yeah  
flat dry   and dirty  
yeah  
i lived in the country for several years  
and living in the city is a whole different   uh social structure  
but uh  
i don't even know  
i haven't been up there in years  
no  
i haven't been back in ten fifteen years  
yeah  
i do  
i just haven't had a chance to get back  
catch them next year probably  
i don't know  
i think we ran out of social   social changes to talk about  
so  
okay  
yeah  
all righty  
bye  
um i think life uh  
now i grew up on a farm  
i don't  
what kind  
did you grow up in the farm  
uh_huh  
i see i see well little bit different  
i think though it was much slower and uh much more self contained  
uh_huh  
yes  
unreal unreal by comparison  
yeah  
i think that's right  
i i can remember as a child you know nobody ever worried about me wondering out at night and going where i wanted to go  
it wasn't it didn't occur to nobody to worry that anything would happen to me  
they were  
no  
no  
it's not all that long ago is it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we were living in new jersey   uh in twenty years ago  
in [allendale]  
and uh i use to have to go over to patterson when those riots were going on   at sometimes  
um i don't know though  
it's it's kind of hard to really know because of  
though the news media had those riots uh kind of blown up out of proportion  
because i went there many times  
and  
i never i never saw a riot   did you  
that's what  
yeah  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think that's true  
i think that's true  
i think the other thing is that uh we have taken some rather drastic turns in our in our education and the way we approach things as of maybe starting back when when i'm number one you know and uh uh uh worrying about self and not uh seeing the consequences of the [disintegration] of the family  
and uh and there have been many things that have happened that have not encouraged closeness of families and uh support for young people that the kind of support that they need   to help them take care of the things  
if you don't have some kind of of basic believe or something down inside of you   then it's very difficult to uh have anything to turn to   when you got when you've got something facing you like that  
uh_huh  
like  
right  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
no  
that's right  
oh  
no  
there's so much more then that  
it starts   very much deeper then that  
i think that too  
i see some [flickers] of of uh of good directions turning  
but whether they're soon enough and fast enough i don't know  
it's just  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
right  
and there's so much so so many people on the lower end of those who who are going to be the the drop outs and the   and the poor and the homeless and whatnot  
yeah  
that's just another  
yeah  
it really is  
it's just it just is almost overwhelming sometimes when you think   of of the jobs that is out there to be done   in order to flip things back around the way they needed to be  
uh not that i really think that they were perfect ten twenty or thirty years ago  
but  
uh yeah  
just the volume makes a big difference  
i think as uh as uh mother you know i use to think sometimes it's not so much uh it's not so much the kids  
it's just the volume of it   to try to keep all wash done and all the things done and you know and everything  
right  
right and   and children's lives were simpler because mother was there  
somebody was there  
and and when there's nobody there  
i always thought too that you know people worrying about going to work when their child when their children are little  
and i and i think that's sad if they have to because they miss so much  
but i i believed after having a few teenagers that the worst time you could go   to go work was when they were teenagers  
right  
it's not so much that they come to you every minute  
but it's that you are there when they need you  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
i think that's true  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
well  
but that helps a lot  
i have a daughter who just had a second job  
she needed to work  
and he opted to go into a day care center where she could have her children with her   and uh and looked a long time before she found one that was laid back enough so they she would be able to interact with them  
and uh and so i  
you know good kind of experience as well  
but uh  
i think that's really important  
i don't think people realize how important it is  
yeah uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's right  
what was what was your name again  
linda  
okay  
well i think probably that we've just about  
i'm going to   change the world  
but uh  
yes  
it's nice talking to you too  
bye now  
i grew up in um  
well at that time i was in a uh trenton new jersey  
so and it was a suburb of trenton  
so i really had mixture of suburb   and urban living  
yeah  
i think you're right  
it's interesting  
i'm um i work in a high school  
so uh i'm comparing my life when i was in high school thirty years ago to what i see these children doing  
and the pressures on the children uh you know  
you hear this as an excuse  
but it's true they are so much greater  
oh i cannot believe uh what they're doing uh academically the demands on them  
and uh and i can see why children do drop out  
i can see i can see the uh you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and you you didn't you didn't have to lock your door  
and uh a  
some of these are urban worries  
but uh it's uh it's a lot different all though i guess twenty years a go now in this area things were um similar because twenty years ago  
let's see  
it was after  
yeah to  
twenty twenty five years ago is when we had the washington riots  
the first rights we've been having some problem now  
and it reminded me of that  
uh_huh  
whereabouts  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
the washington riots weren't  
because  
the washington riots weren't  
because i lived right downtown   washington  
and uh and what you saw is was what you got  
i'm telling you  
yeah  
but you know it's it is interesting uh  
they're so many  
they're different kind of [dangers] that face young people now and social pressures uh  
the pressures of drug is so much  
the [prevalence] is so much greater  
the the kinds of diseases that you've got out the uh um  
i mean the consequences is  
so much of what's going on   is so much more serious then when we were younger  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
and  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i also being involved in the school system see so many of the problem children coming from their parents um children who will lie and cheat  
and you approach their parents  
and their parents are constantly justify them rather then to  
uh you know they're constantly   [excusing] their   child  
and you can see exactly   why the child is that way  
you can as a teacher can't hold a child accountable   if you're not going to get reinforced by   that at home  
and you can't make up in a classroom of one hour a day   what's not been done for   fifteen or sixteen years at home  
and you're you get mixed signals  
so it's it's not always the school's systems  
i think a lot of  
it is the families   the way you were mentioning  
yeah  
no  
of course life is a lot more complicated too in ways um  
the kinds of jobs that people need to be trained   for now  
uh you know with farming being so [mechanized]   uh people working on the family farm which was a traditional american way that becomes less and less likely  
factory jobs are so much more um uh sophisticated  
and the kinds of knowledge that uh you know  
it it's requiring an increasingly sophisticated labor force  
and   some people just don't have it  
and you worry when   you know these the sex and drugs on the young children and the [unborn] children  
uh in terms of what it's going to mean to a society   in the future it's a  
some ways it's rather frightening  
it certainly is  
well it sure is  
it sure is  
it was a little easier though wasn't it  
yes  
yeah   and all the things demanded of the mother too i mean  
uh i look at my mother's life  
i mean she she didn't work um um  
for a long time when i was very young she didn't drive  
uh she learned to drive i think when i was um a teenager  
and her life was a lot simpler  
and i sit here  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
they need you more as a teenager  
isn't that true  
that's why i'm working in a school system so that i'm home when they're home  
um  
that's  
isn't that  
that's so true  
uh uh i find working in a high school is very helpful because it let's me be a little more tolerant and understanding of what people do  
and it keeps me from being the old [fogy]  
so but at the same time   it also it prevents kids from try to go pull the wool over your eyes  
as to what's  
but that's the same  
i'm home in the summers  
i'm home with the holidays  
i'm home at three o clock when the children are at home  
or where home  
one is now a senior in high school and the other's in college  
and uh  
it's uh it uh it does  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
well i  
that's that is that is so true  
and it's not that always that the children always say something  
but every once in awhile they'll come up and make a comment  
and you realize it's important that uh  
and yet you know we have to make that choice  
i think twenty thirty years ago a lot of women   just didn't have to make that choice  
well i  
linda lee  
uh_huh  
and your name was  
well i enjoyed   talking with you  
well i enjoyed talking with you  
okay  
bye bye  
it seems to me that one of the biggest differences is the computer revolution  
and i can very clearly remember ten years ago i was just beginning to explore [computerizing] my office and and trying to find out what kinds of computers might be useful  
and we did end up with uh i b m p c which i now would not have chosen  
but that was before the macintosh  
and twenty years ago i was uh in graduate school [pecking] out a dissertation on a manual typewriter  
so i would say that's one of the largest changes in at least in my life  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
thirty years ago i i had a college job uh working as a programmer  
and we had to write code in binary  
and uh have it [punched] in on those little cardboard cards which   i don't think exists anymore  
you never see one of those punch cards anymore  
well very possibly  
uh i'm not sure in the last ten years it's been very different from before  
uh certainly in the last thirty i would say there have been significant changes even even the change from black and white to color television  
thirty years ago i guess there were color t v  
but i sure didn't have access to one  
and uh but twenty years ago practically everybody had a color t v  
and now i think they're as almost as many well  
there are more t v than households  
so   it's close to getting uh one t v per person they say  
uh_huh  
yeah  
certainly ten years ago uh v c r were just coming on the market  
so that's made a significant difference in the way i watch television for instance  
because uh now i almost never watch a t v program when it's on  
i tape it and then watch it when it's convenient  
and that way i don't have to worry about being interrupted  
i can just put it on [pause]  
right  
uh_huh  
yes  
you can watch a program in forty five minutes instead of an hour  
you skip the commercials  
wasn't the decline so much  
i think they just said the changes in uh social social changes in the united states  
how was life different ten twenty or thirty years ago  
so  
yes  
yes  
that's certainly   a difference  
yeah  
that's another one  
yeah  
car phones is a good point and uh cellular phones of all types and [beepers]  
uh   ten years ago i was working in a job at a medical center  
and i had to carry a beeper around  
and they were kind of bulky  
and all they did was just uh make a beep noise  
and then you had to go find a telephone and call in to find out what they wanted you for and who you were supposed to call  
these days they have these tiny little things that are only about the size of two or three [pencils]  
and they fit in your shirt pocket  
and they have a little display screen that shows you a message and either tells you a person or a a phone number to respond to  
and  
yeah  
those are pretty neat  
and they have the kind that just [vibrates] so you can shut them off   in a theatre or something  
and you can still get your messages  
but let's see social changes uh uh  
i haven't the [slightest] idea  
i was just thinking though about a a huge social change in the last ten years is aids  
it was just beginning to be recognized and noticed ten years ago  
i i know that because i was writing a paper about it  
i was writing a a journal article  
uh and they still didn't even know what caused it or anything  
and uh there was a suspicion   that it was a virus  
but nobody had identified it  
and they were really just going on [epidemiological] uh   uh [guesswork] uh because the way it was [transmitted] made it look an awful lot like uh hepatitis  
and then   from from the spread pattern of hepatitis they could work backwards to the transmission by uh blood and [semen]  
and then i  
well i i was in english as a matter of fact and   medieval studies  
uh but i went to work as an editor and writer  
so uh uh the ten years ago i was working in the medical center uh publishing a journal and writing about medical topics  
and let's see twenty years ago i guess we're were just beginning to get into what they were calling the uh the sex revolution where uh   after the pill  
and uh uh freed people up from worries about uh [illegitimate] pregnancy  
and i guess in the seventies is the the time when that was supposed to have [exploded]  
thirty years ago there was no pill  
yes  
i do  
i really do  
i have uh   four kids in college right now children and [stepchildren]  
and i know that the expectation for them was uh to have sex and much earlier   than the expectation when i was in college  
in my day we talked quietly behind our hands about people that we suspected might be   sleeping with their boyfriends  
but they certainly didn't expect everybody to  
and it was really only uh acceptable if you were engaged and planning to get married in in the relatively near future  
and i certainly know from talking to my stepdaughter that girls in high school were under a whole lot more pressure nowadays  
and i guess the answer   is is stay flexible because nobody can predict what's going to happen in twenty years  
i certainly wouldn't have been able to twenty years ago tell you what uh my kids were likely to be like  
course one of them was just a a a brand new baby twenty years ago  
so   i sure wouldn't have been able to predict for him  
and some of the other ones weren't born  
yeah  
electronic mail  
i just got on that this past about a year ago  
and that's made a difference in the way i do my job because it's so much easier to get hold of people and get quick answers to things   even when they're on another continent  
yeah  
even you know  
that reminds me federal express was around ten years ago  
but it was used as kind of an extreme emergency  
and nowadays people use fed ex all the time  
people do seem to travel more  
it's much more common for people even teenagers to be going to europe and south america and   asia  
uh i was almost thirty before i got off this continent  
and uh both my kids had been abroad when they were still in high school  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
oh i know it  
yeah  
i i've seen that just in the last uh even five years how much they've uh increased in use or probably eight years  
when i was a freshman in college   uh my degree was in computer uh technology originally  
and it seemed like it would  
they were just getting out with the you know the disks and all that getting away with the cards   you know doing away with the the programming cards  
and uh  
i know  
no  
uh i think t v has a lot to do with the changes too don't you in like people's attitudes  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
and now everybody uh has v c r and two or three v c r   and that kind of thing  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
and you can you can flip through the commercials  
so you don't have to watch the commercials  
that's always convenient  
uh_huh  
so what was our question about decline in  
yeah  
well i can't really remember back that far  
but ten years ago uh i don't know i'd say like in the nineteen seventies you remember how kids would walk around with a m what do you call those little a m [radios]  
and now people have jam box with c d players in them you know   and   hand held t v and car phones  
yeah  
uh_huh  
those are cool  
yeah  
yeah  
where do you think it's where do you think it's going to go in twenty years  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm curious what was your uh graduate study in  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you think that's caused a lot of pressure on like younger kids today   to make choices that they probably shouldn't have to make  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it's kind of scary when i think of what will happen in twenty years you know when i have kids and they're grown and uh just kind of some of the changes that will happen even more  
so  
seems like it can't get much worse  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
so sounds like america's going to become even more communication society with [faxes] and cellular phones and   worldwide communication  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
it's pretty wild  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure do huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know that's what uh what my family was talking when i picked up and moved to texas from indiana  
and they were like well you know thirty years ago we wouldn't have done that you know  
and uh especially come home every couple months  
you know and  
well what kind of music did you all listen to  
uh_huh  
no  
now well then you was in the uh  
or i am sorry  
i am going to make you sound like you're   eighty something  
okay  
woodstock  
what was  
yeah  
what was you doing during woodstock   uh_huh  
you would have had a ball  
i i kind of liked would have liked to have been there  
yeah  
don't you wish you had been able to though  
oh that would have been such a great memory  
yeah  
yeah  
you went and planted a tree or something  
uh_huh  
well  
well   growing up with  
when i grew up it just was not we did not have any causes  
to me it didn't doesn't seem like we have got much  
you know what i mean  
yeah  
well i do remember demonstrations over [busing]  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well right  
by the time i was born even now you know women's rights uh  
we just  
we are totally equal now  
there is not really a lot to fight over  
now i saw something on t v last night on twenty twenty  
you know men's uh fathers or daddies  
now wait a minute  
daddies are people too  
it is about a lot of men you know all right going through divorces  
the judge will usually uh give custody to the mother ninety seven percent of the time because they go through the female  
uh   yeah  
something like that  
but it does seem you know  
yeah  
it really does  
yeah  
they are well  
i thought about that  
i thought well now men you know have to fight to be equal  
and i think that is only right though really  
he  
one guy said the judge looked at him and said well now mister so and so he says i have never seen uh [calves] follow a bull  
they always follow the [heifer]  
that is why i always he said that is why i always give custody to the mama  
and he said well he said does that mean you are going to shoot them if they break a leg and   you know butcher them if they get fat  
he said my kids are my cattle   you know but that that is the way most people feel that women should get custody  
yeah  
i am married  
and i have got two kids  
my husband is not a [conformist] at all  
he is still back there in the seventies  
well i mean he is still wearing bell bottoms not bell bottoms but   [flared] pants and he  
well i do not like them  
but   you know to him  
yeah  
any day now  
well he just you know he is he is his own person  
he   you know he does stay with it as far as music and stuff goes  
but he wears what clothes he wants to which we are both that way  
if something is out of style i do not really care  
if i like it i am going to wear it  
but uh my husband is not a [conformist] at all  
uh_huh  
well uh we are trying to keep away from that  
my husband works for the railroad  
we have got it real tight  
but i have got a four month old baby  
and i do not want to work  
i want to tend to her  
i want to raise my kids  
uh_huh  
well  
right  
well when he grew up he grew up with his  
we both grew up with single mothers  
and my mom had six kids  
so she had to work  
and you know i was raised by my sisters and stuff  
and i can i can't see the difference  
but i know that it would have been better had mom been able to stay home with us  
right  
right  
and my husband was the same way  
and we just  
i want to raise my kids  
i do not want a day care or an aunt or anybody else raising them  
i want to be there to make sure that  
well they need guidance  
and they do need parental guidance   twenty four   hours a day  
do you stay home with yours  
uh_huh  
they raise them  
well but see now  
yeah  
okay sweetie  
let mommy talk  
well i think that's neat  
right  
uh_huh  
well i know the family is really going through changes  
but now we are trying to go back to about the sixties when the parents you know when the mother was staying at home  
unit  
or that  
what do they call it the nuclear family  
yeah  
but uh  
uh  
well my family is kentucky  
now my one of my sisters is down here  
her husband happened to get a job at t i  
they moved out here  
but  
his family lives here  
and my husband was in the service when i met him  
and so we we've been all over  
okay kyle  
then i  
he got a sunburn  
and he is [itching]  
so i am keep having to scratch his back  
see uh i would love to get a business going out of my home  
outside of i mean going  
yeah  
i would rather work at home if i could  
yeah  
that   is the trend  
yeah  
they are bringing offices i mean i mean big businesses into their home  
bringing their computers home   and working from there  
well i think   i think one that would be uh  
it is uh  
kids could see their parents you know how hard they work  
they would understand more  
when uh we first moved down here i was working  
i was working a twelve hour shift  
and it was three and four days a week  
and uh  
oh my little boy just he went wild you know i mean because because he had been used to me   being there   all the time  
yeah  
and he is just now  
well when i got pregnant i went ahead and quit work and decided just to stay at home  
and it was costing too much at home than more at home than i was bringing in  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
it seems like it is totally different  
of course i do not have much to compare it to  
to me   our causes do not seem as important as you all's were  
do you know what i mean  
you you what  
okay  
we passed them on to us  
uh_huh  
no  
okay  
yeah  
well  
oh my goodness  
now see we think of classic rock that they you know have on all the easy listening stations now   as our heart and soul  
i mean it was  
that is a really good question because that was everything from the rolling stones to the beatles  
i mean we were there  
yeah  
i was  
well i was   i was in seventh grade when the beatles came out  
i was   fourteen years old  
woodstock  
well i wanted to go  
i was in chicago  
and i guess i was close to eighteen or something  
i i  
it was like i think the summer between my uh high school and college somewhere around in there  
i can't quite remember the year  
and uh  
uh yeah  
we could not we could not get it together to drive  
i mean you know we had never driven outside of you know   ten miles out of town at that time  
and here we were all [hep] to go to woodstock you know  
i really do  
you  
it would have been incredible  
i i think of uh you know all the social changes that were going on around that time and   and the sixties as being so [revolutionary] in a lot of ways in terms of raising people's consciousness everything from  
well i mean i remember we had the first earth day back then you know  
we got out of school at at uh the university  
and we celebrated earth day  
yeah  
planted trees and stuff  
and we did not realize you know the implications of all that then   and a lot of the stuff that goes on   today  
well   well you do  
you'll  

i mean there there was no name to it  
it was everything that was started in the sixties  
you   had you had to fight for racial equality  
and [busing]  
it was like just a [continuum]  
you know everything sort of had a seed in the sixties  
and women's rights i mean things for women were totally different for you by that time  
you just assume  
yeah  
yeah  
well we learned   from [kramer] versus [kramer] didn't we  
it seems unfair  
but it  
see men are coming into their own   now too  
yeah  
well are you married  
and do you have children  
two kids  
and and how does your husband respond to all the new   social uh changes  
well see   bless his heart you know  
they are   going to be back in style any day now  
oh  
yeah  
oh  
well see that that is the spirit of the sixties  
and whether we are talking about the rain forests  
i tell  
you you know the situation you have right now  
and and all of our generations is what to do with the children because both mother and father have to work now  
oh okay  
that's   that's see that is your commitment  
you do not know what you are changing when you do something like that  
you do not understand the total commitment it takes to be a parent  
uh  
uh_huh  
that one person   that you could always count on being there  
well  
they definitely   do  
they definitely do  
i  
uh well see i if i had some i would  
i i have not  
i had an unfortunate thing happen  
and i am you know  
and it is not going to happen that way  
but my my uh friends are having babies right and left  
so i get to see the different ways that they   uh all raise them  
and and one gal she started a business   in her home  
and she she hired an au pair which is a college kid to come in and take care of her two boys while she works in the other end of the house  
and the guy lives in with her you know  
i mean you know it is a family sort of unit sort of thing  
and the  
and so  
so that is a different way  
and then my other girlfriend just you know tears her hair out and goes at it you know twenty four hours a day watching both kids all the time  
and i think there is a point where you just have to get away  
and it is good for the kid  
and it is good for you to develop you know your interest so you do not stop growing   at the same time  
yeah  
yeah  
do you have any uh  
do you have your mom or anybody around you that   helps you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
well that is  
well see and and that is uh the sort of the thing of the nineties is   women   working out of their own home  
right  
and i think you know the more we try to you know shape that the more input we   have into what that whole system is going to look like because that is that is our choice now too  
that is   that is our cause  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
being there all   the time  
yeah  
yeah  
see the economic situation on the whole thing  
and then uh well it is  
see we do have things that we are concerned about here  
this generation  
i don't know  
social change is always going to go on  
but i think we have taken a big leap in the last you know twenty thirty years  
and uh nothing is the same  
well  
yeah  
but we we grew we passed them on to you you know  
i mean  
i said we passed   them   on to you  
i mean you know because it takes a lot of hard work  
it takes writing letters to congressmen and   and you know just being very very politically [astute] about how to shape and mold the future  
and and uh you know um did we make the right choices  
we do not know  
we will never know  
i mean you know i i think we made a wrong choice when i look at the children of today  
yeah  
i think we made some big wrong choices  
and i think business got in the way  
i think the greed of the eighties got  
yes  
what what major changes have affected your life  
you mean yourself or women in general  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's interesting  
because that relates to the thing that that strikes me the most  
and i'm sure you've you've [labelled] the cause because what strikes me the most in the changes in society is the way kids behave  
and  
that's right  
that's right  
and you know i mean i was thinking it just you know  
my complaint would would be um that i think that you know the kids in the neighborhood run wild  
and they they destroy property  
and they you know steal each other's toys and stuff  
and   there's just no respect for for people or property  
and i guess you know when you stop to think of it these kids have probably been deprived of a lot of attention that they've needed all their lives  
scary  
uh_huh  
but for how many years  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
i agree a hundred percent a hundred percent  
i guess i was lucky because i was teaching  
and so i was able to just go to a class and teach when my son was little  
and so i'd be gone you know an hour and fifteen minutes or something at a stretch  
and then yeah  
very soon he was old enough to just go and sort of stay in my office  
and   you know nobody seemed to have a big problem with that  
so that's an interesting issue though  
um yeah  
right  
i've  
actually another one that i a question i would have is  
i guess i'm being you know beyond the age of thinking of this this problem  
i had an argument recently with my boss  
i think it was about the need for women to work  
but i think you put your finger on it when you said that they're not respected if they don't work because it seems to me that a lot of people i know women i know are doing very menial jobs in a certain sense certainly financially  
and i mean when i see the amount of clothes that they buy and and how much it costs them to buy fast food on the way home   i'm sure that they're not making quote making money for the family on this  
and and probably you're right  
well no  
even families that don't have child care  
i mean you know when i think of this one friend who makes probably twenty thousand dollars a year and i'm sure she spends at least that in clothes plus you know fast food every day and out to lunch every day  
and  
exactly  
and i mean you know even though they don't have children they they have relatives  
and you know the husband would certainly like a lot more attention  
and and she wouldn't have to hire somebody to clean the house and do the gardening  
and so i i guess you're right  
it's it's  
our society demands women to work if they're going to be respected  
really sad  
oh that's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so that might be a positive change in society  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i guess i haven't seen that as much in this area although every now and then you hear about it  
uh but among you know people i know i don't see a great you know  
there are those people who have have had serious questions all along and you know are sort of pursuing it  
but um the churches here are growing leaps and bounds  
and i thought it was more because of the the very transient nature of the area   and that people were going basically just as you said as a social to meet people and that  
but um it's hard to judge  
and there are a lot of things changing i suppose  
just you know the whole the whole environment i find   um sort of you know  
i wonder with with all our chemicals and and that and and the foods we eat  
and you know young people that i know are getting very serious diseases  
and  
probably  
well it's just  
it's maybe it's more unusual now when you know somebody quite young gets certain kinds of cancer  
and in the past maybe the same percentage got them  
but we didn't know it  
or i don't know  
well i guess we've sort of run dry a little bit  
it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
well i think that uh women women working is the one that really affects me most strongly right now  
um  
well women in general and and also myself  
but um it used to not really make a difference to me um  
or at least i didn't think so  
but my mother worked  
and i kind of now wish that that she hadn't   that um that she had um stayed home  
and right now i'm kind of stuck because i'd like to have children  
but i'm not ready to do that because when i do have children i want to stay home  
so i'm having to uh try to figure out a way to be able to do that  
and in in our society right now that's really something that's that's um not respected  
and it's not it's not um it's not easy to do   at all  
i mean there's a great deal of sacrifice that has to be made on the part of a family if the if the wife is going to actually be a mother  
uh_huh  
i think that that they have to be related  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think that that's probably true  
i just wish there was a way  
i know that in in you know in sweden what they have there it's really their medical plan but it also deals with this subject because if a woman uh is working   and i think even if she's not and has a child the government [subsidizes] her to stay home and raise the child  
i don't i don't know  
until it um  
i'm sure until at least school age and maybe longer  
what this does is it allows the government to subsidize her to be the mother of her children rather than to subsidize child care   to raise the child for her  
and i think that that's a real a much much more viable solution really  
oh yeah  
that's great  
uh_huh  
um goodness  
what else  
oh there's been so many  
how do you just  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
i don't see how they could be especially not if they have to pay for child care  
uh_huh  
you're probably right  
if she sat down and looked at it she'd be like god what am i doing this for you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
religion has changed too  
um uh some people now it seems like are turning back toward actually trying to find out what they're in it for instead of just um  
it it's it  
some places still it seems like it's a social club  
you know it's just a place to go to visit uh to wear your nice clothes and and to sit around and talk  
but um i think a lot of people are really you know searching now to find find out who they are and who god is and what all that really means now  
yeah  
oh it's it's um it's beginning i think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
well i guess that's always happened  
maybe not as much as now  
but  
okay  
nice to talk to you  
bye bye  
uh do you want to give a start on it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh uh  
oh definitely  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you can relate to that  
now see we didn't we don't have any of that because well like we live in the country   in clarion county  
and uh we really didn't have things like that going on   that we you know uh ran into  
so we kind of uh  
i guess when i think of social changes i think think more of uh uh visiting habits of families   and such  
uh  
yeah  
that there's less visiting done i think on a whole than there used to be  
used to be that you took the family whether the kids wanted to go or not  
you went visiting  
and uh today you know people they do visit  
but it's not quite the same as uh what it was say twenty years ago thirty years ago  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well they're so spread out  
i think has a lot to do with it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
the majority  
yeah  
probably  
because when you work   you   don't really care to go out and visit as much  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
huh_uh  
they don't do as much  
uh_huh  
you have to make arrangements or have   an invitation or  
yeah  
yeah  
well that could be part of it  
i don't know for sure what it is  
i know our children mostly are scattered out at a distance so we really don't have that even  
we don't  
oh really  
oh that's pretty good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well apparently there must be work available for those   that are  
uh_huh  
because around here there's really nothing for the young people  
no good i mean there's jobs  
there's minimum wage jobs  
but uh to make a good living there really around here there just isn't too much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so well there's the main things i can think of  
i really tried to think of some other things  
and i couldn't really  
yeah  
definitely  
some good   and some bad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they'd rather get their life started first before  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well even to get school finished i think  
a lot of times it's better if they do finish their schooling before they settle in  
because a marriage takes a lot of effort and concentration  
and if you're busy with school it's i think it's really difficult for a family  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
i know my my daughter that lives in pittsburgh she has two little boys  
and they they've been in day care since you know  
one's four  
and one's one  
and they've done well  
now i wouldn't want to do it that way  
but uh she's quite happy  
and the children seem quite adjusted  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
now i'm going to baby sit my granddaughter  
she's just eight weeks old  
so this will be new for me  
so uh but the others i'm too far away to help them out at all  
uh well i have a son and daughter that live in pittsburgh one in maryland and one in connecticut  
a son in connecticut  
no  
but like connecticut takes eight hours to drive home  
and uh it's too far to you know really go too often  
pittsburgh's not quite so bad  
it's just a couple hours  
maryland maybe five hour drive  
uh_huh  
that's worse yet  
oh are you really  
do you uh stay overnight on the way  
or you  
you're young  
how old are you  
okay  
well you're young enough yet to  
uh_huh  
it's work to get there  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
now my son  
they they flew  
he rebuilt a [aranca] chief airplane  
and they flew down last weekend  
they came down in it  
and it still took a long time because it's not a fast it's not a high speed airplane  
but they enjoyed in thoroughly  
so  
i'm not sure  
but you have to change phones  
you have to call from another a different  
well i think for me  
i i'm from alabama  
south alabama  
and so i grew up in the [midst] of civil rights movement   uh in a pretty liberal family for for that area at the time  
and so i was very much a part of all the uh you know what was going on there  
uh my parents are pretty active  
and uh it was very scary  
and but now we've seen you know uh black people have a lot more civil rights in that area and i guess all over than they did you know twenty years ago  
there's still a lot to be you know to be accomplished  
but   for me when i think about social change that's what i first think of  
because i can remember you know separate public [restrooms] and separate water [fountains] and   sitting in the back of the bus and everything  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's true  
that's a good one right there  
right  
and i grew up in out in the country too basically in a rural area   and with lots of family  
and so we were always at family in different   family [members'] homes  
but even now you know they don't even do that  
well and they're so busy  
people people's personal schedules are so busy  
mainly because i a lot of it has to do i think with more women working  
in our family you know twenty years ago not that many of the women worked  
and now uh almost all the women work  
and so that means you know a lot of a lot of the social visiting and all was i think probably [instigated] by women   at that time  
right  
and now  
that's right  
and now uh  
i mean my mother does not work  
and and she you know she's finds herself pretty alone a lot   because most of her friends are working women  
but even just social visits people don't do that anymore  
you're right  
and people don't feel comfortable just to drop in on people   anymore  
there's a real  
right  
you know you don't want to   you want to make sure it's okay  
or  
i guess we don't not to make invade people's privacy or whatever  
well out of out of fifteen grandchildren in my family only two of us don't live within fifty miles  
and and most live within ten   or or twenty  
so but that's you know that is rural it's a rural family  
and   most people didn't go away  
i'm just one of the two   out of fifteen   that don't live in the you know even in the same state  
yeah  
there is in that area  
uh_huh  
and i guess you know that would greatly affect social i e social change  
probably the job market has and the the economy   has always affected uh social change  
probably  
well i think just also you know the women's movement too has affected a lot of social change  
uh people   marry  
yeah  
people marry later  
i mean basically i think  
now again where i'm from in in alabama that's not necessarily true   because people do still get married right out of high school  
but now out here in texas where i am now that's very unusual  
most people get i mean get go to college or at least get a job  
and even you know people are seem to a lot of people seem to be engaged for a long time before they get married   because they do want to be financially set up  
right  
but probably uh you know more women being in in the work force also greatly greatly affects social change  
because it affects child care  
and  
uh  
right  
well and they're you know they're they're saying right now we don't know what we just now are seeing the effects of day care on   the generation that's just now coming into   the work force and in their twenties  
they are the first generation that basically grew up with day care  
and so you know it [remained] to be seen exactly what that what that does  
uh_huh  
where do they live  
well they're not too far though  
uh_huh  
well i live like fourteen hours from home  
in fact i'm   i'm driving i'm i'm driving home tomorrow so  
to go be there for the fourth of july  
no  
i can drive it all  
it's just me  
so i can make it  
i'm thirty five  
although it's it's it is pretty  
i don't know  
i don't enjoy it that much  
it's pretty much like get there  
and  
it's just not that pleasant  
even with other people i basically just don't like to drive that far  
uh_huh  
when you say you're in the second phase of this project what is the second phase of it  
oh  
hello  
my name is nola  
i'm in plano texas  
not too far away  
i've had some from plano too  
uh_huh  
okay  
um let's see  
social changes  
that sounds like not as recent social changes too like back to the sixties or fifties i guess  
think we can handle that  
okay uh  
shall i go ahead and push one  
okay  
you want to go ahead and start  
oh  
that involves   a lot of different   areas i think  
yeah  
there is a   a big difference in the uh economic um status of uh people although i think that has been true uh always  
um perhaps there's less of the middle range then there was  
uh  
i think uh in my situation  
i have three children  
and we're uh home schooling  
so education you know things that relate to education um are things that i think about a lot  
um i think that and i think that involves social changes a lot  
uh for instance i think the schools are having more and more problems because of uh things that are happening socially in the world around them and in in because of their parents  
and things that are being taught in the home are not taught in the home rather more not than are and children being put in day care centers from very early  
and and i think that a lot of these things that have been happening such as the day care centers and things are having a big effect on the social changes  
because of the way children are being raised they're not learning the values they need to learn  
and they're not um they don't have the self esteem that they need to have  
and they don't have the um a solid family life that they need to have to confidently and deal with the things in the world  
and uh i think we're seeing a lot of rebellion and things because of that and the things like the gang gang things that are happening  
and and um  
yeah  
yeah  
oh it's  
that's really sad  
i think that a lot of people  
and they think they have to  
but  
i i think that if they really tried they wouldn't have to  
and   i i think that if they didn't that and it became more of the standard not to that uh i don't know maybe companies would start paying men more so that their wives could stay home you   know and have a more solid uh foundation for the kids  
that's right  
it's already   it already costs society much more because of it  
you know it  
trying to do all these programs like [headstart] and things like those you wouldn't have to do that if mothers would stay home with their children and do things with them you know  
um there's  
and i think uh a lot of it is [selfishness]  
people have become very selfish  
they don't want to stay home with the kids   or something like that  
there are a lot of two parent um situations where the woman goes back to work because that's what she wants to do you know  
rather than that   she has to have the money particularly  
or maybe there's a small need for money  
so she does it partly because of the money but partly for herself too   you know  
home school  
yeah  
no  
i i have uh one going into fourth grade and one starting kindergarten and then a [preschooler]   and one on the way  
yes  
yes  
and i think uh it's becoming uh more popular then it has been for a while i think  
home [schooling's] always been around  
but uh i can see more and more families going to it because of the problems in the schools  
um and a lot of it is discipline problems  
a lot of it is  
and you can tell which kids have been in day care centers  
it it's really obvious to look at them and watch the way they act and things   that um they've been raised in a day care center  
well i think it's going to   change in the homes before anything   changes anywhere else  
the home is the base  
it's the basic unit  
and that's the where it all starts  
and if we don't start making changes in the homes  
and maybe part of that is educating parents better  
and educating uh you know  
i know they do do some they do have some classes in um high schools and things for kids to uh give them an idea of what family life is like and the uh you know and uh that kind of thing  
but uh  
hello  
hi nola  
i'm steve  
i'm in dallas texas  
no  
that's unusual  
seems like usually  
oh yeah  
i think all mine have been east coast people so far  
so  
social changes  
what's that mean  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i definitely  
i mean there's plenty of things to talk about there  
that's a  
yeah  
sure  
uh i was hoping that you would  
but oh  
in social changes is that  
uh it seems to me that uh  
does that  
yeah  
like a lot  
it seems like the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer is even more   true today you know  

yeah  
it's like people are starting to give up hope  
and they start out very poor  
let's see  
that's a bad [tangent] to get on  
what else has changed between the sixties and the eighties   and the nineties  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
it seems so that  
yeah  
that is a pretty big change  
it seems even not just single parent families but with no guidance  
but it seems like   some of these even ladies that that'll work and have   a baby and then you know after two or three months   go back to work   you know  
well that that i mean that's very young for a baby  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean they're going to  
like you said i mean there's they might be saving money  
i mean even if they had to pay more now i mean in the long run it's going to cost society more to   force two people to work even though   it's higher productivity is short term  
yeah  
yeah  
oh rather than she needs the money   just she wants the   stimulating environment  
huh it  
yeah  
it's interesting how uh  
home study is that what you said  
home school  
is that uh is is it like uh a preschool level then or through   grade school or  
oh i  
oh well you sound busy  
so you're teaching them   completely  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's pretty sad because i mean i don't know something's got to change with the schools  
that's what it all boils down to in the end usually anyway  
when they're young  
yeah  
yeah  
changing people's expectations  
uh well i guess social change takes in a a big category  
but uh i guess the the one aspect of it that i took in uh consideration is more economical  
i i know that the amount of or how far your dollar goes probably more than anything has has greatly changed  
i know they they did a  
it was on a talk show  
they took uh the parents and then the uh the son  
and they compared income at different points in time when the when the father was you know was a little bit younger and more in his heyday  
and they and they compared to the son's that he was making now  
and even though the son was probably more successful you know higher up in the the management ladder   uh his he was actually making less money   when you when you go by costs of living  
yeah  
i know just uh just with me ten years ago i was comparing the  
i think i i was living better ten years ago than i am now even though i'm making more money now  
but my dollar went a lot farther  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i know gas prices have definitely jumped uh from uh  
i know i used to pay twenty five cents a gallon  
and now it's over a buck  
i don't know what it's uh by you  
around here minnesota wisconsin area it's uh it's dropping  
but i think it's about a dollar fifteen on an average  
okay  
well that's uh that's  
most of the people i talk to are texas  
so  
yeah  
oh  
i suppose this will be one of my towards my last one pretty soon  
so they'll stop me  
but uh i'm uh i'm pretty much out to the things to say  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
i i   i don't think they they consider  
like i say it's a broad category  
it's just i'm not economical  
but   uh even attitudes   on on clothing and stuff uh i know  
yeah  
i i i know a lot of the things that that we wear men wear nowadays were would have been considered uh feminine uh many years ago  
but   i know it's been it was hard for me at first  
but now i kind of like you know a lot of the bright colors  
i mean like i used to be more uh conservative and just your basic colors  
but now i i do like some of these uh brighter [fluorescent] colors  
yeah  
yeah  
i i i guess the the best thing i like to see from the sixties and seventies is of course is the mini skirt of course   one of the nice things  
but uh  
yeah  
i don't think that there's anything as original  
it's it's all based on uh one of the past styles  
they just um make their uh circle and come back again  
so if you hang onto your clothes long enough uh   they'll they'll be back in style in a few years  
yeah  
well i think thinking back i think the only style i hope doesn't come back is bell bottoms  
i guess when i look at pictures of myself in the bell bottoms i say god  
um  
yes  
i agree  
uh_huh  
right  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
and it's depending on where you live though too  
yeah  
that's true  
ten years ago i was eleven  
oh i remember though like buying candy and stuff that was a lot less expensive than it is now   and gas  
and i used to hear stories from my grandpa  
and you know he could see a movie for like a nickel and things like that  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm from wisconsin  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i spoke to a person from texas too  
this is only my second phone call  
so i'm   waiting for mine  
um  
oh like like social changes  
um um and i don't think this would have anything to do with it  
but like clothing and styles lot of those changed  
yeah  
uh_huh  
definitely  
towards each other  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but they styles come and go all the time though  
it's just ridiculous fads in and out  
and even um clothing from the sixties came back  
i see a lot of um girls wearing sixties clothes  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
maybe some day i probably won't be alive to see it  
but prices might go down lot more  
i don't know though  
doesn't look good  
yeah  
i remember that  
i do  
yeah  
i didn't really care for them either  
but now i  
well um since i'm in college uh i mean uh i haven't seen that much change  
i'm kind of young still  
i don't know how much it changed in the last uh twenty years anyway  
but i don't know  
do you do you have an idea of of how much  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
yeah  
right  
well i can remember are from from my childhood were the disco days  
and maybe that's changed a lot uh   the way the way people dress  
and uh  
more lax  
uh_huh  
maybe a people are a little more open minded than maybe they used to be  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
especially with like a lot of the different organizations now like you know pro life and and uh choice in in the special interest groups maybe   um like amnesty  
uh yeah  
maybe people are a little a little more uh free to express their opinions socially free  
oh yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
just wasn't socially acceptable  
yeah  
uh maybe maybe too a big social change that's that's maybe for the worst is uh is is how um the people's uh views on on relationships has changed you know  
and now we have now we have several you know we have to worry about aids  
and we have to worry about uh maybe people are becoming more aware more more afraid of   relationships  
uh_huh  

right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
it used to be that we were that we were trying to protect [morality]  
now it's we're protecting our lives  
it's a   it's a much different  
we have you know  
you can't just just hope for abstinence  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
i i i imagine you're right  
i i teach swim lessons a lot  
and and to see what see what kids talk about when uh you know they're they're open about well you know  
kids are a lot more educated now than i think that that like we were uh at that age   um about a lot of things  
you know besides what besides what they learn uh from from our social environment is uh their education is just amazing  
kids are kids are learning uh you know  
their math is just  
every year uh algebra goes down a grade you know  
and and uh students learn it earlier  
no  
i'm not that old either  
i'm only twenty nine  
so social changes aren't that much for me either  
well yeah  
that  
i think attitudes are more lax now than they used to be  
uh_huh  
relaxed   and laid back and stuff  
and  
i think so  
i think so  
and a lot  
i think people are are used to now saying what's what's on their minds more   more up front   than they used to be  
right  
yeah  
i think so  
i think women have come out more   too on on like child abuse   and and the wife [beatings]  
and   and like you said pro pro choice and   whatnot  
i think that's become more outstanding than it used to be where women i think used to be a little bit afraid of coming out and saying something  
no  
huh_uh  
right  
well i know like when i was in high school and junior high and stuff and sitting down and having the sex talk with mom you know   and all that stuff  
and you know we didn't have to talk about  
well basically her thing was just don't do it you know  
but i'm not i'm not naive   to think that my children are not going to not do it  
it wasn't that long that i was that young  
and i've got a ten year old  
and you know he thought he knows about [condoms]  
and   and he knows about aids  
and   it's just different things you have to talk to them about now   that you would never even have [dreamt] to have to say anything about  
uh_huh  
no  
i don't i think that's stupidity on parents' part  
i mean   that's sex is rampant  
and it always will be  
and   and i think too noticing the kids that the fourth and fifth graders which is what my son is   and stuff they they're just they're more they're very open  
i mean the boys are very open   because that's that's all i have is boys so that's all i'm around   basically is boys  
but they talk about things that i my brother didn't talk about until he was in college   you know  
and and they sit down  
and they look at you right in the face  
and they expect a [truthful] answer  
you can't get them give them the oh you know cabbage patch answers   and stuff  
they they  
that just does not go  
and they can tell me basically some things that i don't know  
but it it's interesting listening to them  
i think i think the social changes in them i think i see it more with that generation   than i do with like our generation  
yeah  
i do too  
i know  
well my son the my fourth grader he is  
uh what do you think are the major social changes  
what age uh if you don't mind me asking  
oh well you're you're young  
i'm in my   early fifties  
so you should take my word  
you're young  
every day  
yeah  
i can believe that  
that's that's social change  
well what do you think is is the major social change  
right now  
okay  
i think probably the big major change is the role of women  
i think one the women uh in the work force  
and i think the fact that they're becoming uh more uh how do i want to say not necessarily politically inclined  
but they're more apt to be in political offices   now  
i think you know we've made great strides   in that respect  
i think that it thirty years ago when uh i was newly married family was very very important  
then i think we [veered] where the family was not as important a unit  
and i think now it's [revolving] back full circle  
i think   the family unit is becoming much more important than it was  
that's true  
that's true  
well i know that economically uh a wife almost has to work anymore  
and yet i'm also noticing uh in the areas that i'm working and stuff more and more women are wanting now to stay home with the children where fifteen years ago   they didn't  
i mean you know they wanted children  
but they still wanted to be their own person out in the work force  
but i see i am seeing women now wanting to stay home   more at least until the children are up to you know school age  
and uh i find that very interesting that that   it's sort of [reverting] back  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
probably  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it uh i i note that i had taken care of my grandchildren recently while my daughter and her husband had been out of town  
and i do not envy these mothers   or these fathers that have these the children that they have to rush home from work and pick them up at day care get them through their homework get them to their soccer practice   get them to their piano lessons  
i mean that's tough  
i don't envy these young parents  
that's true  
that's true  
i don't know  
and and i'm finding you know running into these uh women that are wanting to have their children at the age of thirty nine forty i'm thinking at the age of fifty two you're crazy  
you're going to be doing your worst running around when you're fifty  
and you're absolutely nuts  
well you can be go getting  
but you can also get gray hairs and have a nervous breakdown  
i just know it it would absolutely exhaust me  
maybe it's because it's my grandchildren  
and it's not my children  
maybe that's  
well  
well i'm i'm uh thirty one  
yeah  
right  
oh i you know i've seen a social change  
yeah  
it's definitely  
for sure  
and it's uh uh and besides that i came from california where social change is like you know  
yeah  
i mean every second  
you know social change in california means it takes another two or three minutes longer to get to work  
and uh when i started work there in it started you know actually going to work in eighty two  
i guess that's when it was  
between eighty two and eighty five uh it started out taking me an hour and fifteen minutes to get to work  
and then it became you know an hour and a half to you know some days two hours to get to work  
that's social change  
oh  
yeah  
that's that's a that's a tricky one  
i'll let you go first  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i think it's that's probably for two reasons  
uh you know the number one is women wanted to get out of the house  
and the second reason was is everything costs so much more that if you don't have you know equal rights so that your wife gets equal pay you can't make twice as much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i've i've i've found that too you know where the wife is married and and  
i mean not not married  
sorry  
wrong word  
where the wife has gone to school you know   and gotten a degree spent five years out in the work force found you know the the their husband either at college or whatever  
but still you know after five years it's like first kid  
and then they're out of the work force for another ten years  
but i think most of those people are still out  
i think that generation they're all at home right now  
and and we won't see them back for another two or three years  
uh i'm very rarely do i meet anybody whose children are are you know past that age when they've been away for a few years  
but uh it's kind of different  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i uh  
i'm an assistant scout master  
and that's that's it's like uh  
yeah  
parents uh even rarely see their kids for weekends which is you know kind of rough too  
especially now  
yeah  
yeah  
i i know two women that that uh  
let's see  
one of them's forty nine  
and the other one well the other one i don't know what her age is  
but i know she is she is somewhere in that [hairy] age of half a century up there  
and uh boy i'll tell you  
these are the the go [gettingest] happiest people i've ever met  
you know because  
i'm thirty  
i'm getting gray hairs already  
um  
do you see as uh the changes that have occurred in the last  
beverly  
huh  
yeah  
that's a big one  
well i think that society has come to a point where they're not responsible for any of their actions  
somebody else uh made them do it  
uh that's what i seem to see a lot of that uh no one is willing to take responsibility for their life and their choices  
it's rather sue these guys because they made a uh a seat belt that didn't work right  
or   uh that's what i think is a big one  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
and another thing i think has changed quite a bit is uh the roles that men and women play  
that's really in the last thirty years has changed significantly  
well both you know  
there's some great things that uh have come about with more equality  
but i think that also  
i don't know what's causing society to have so many broken families and things like that because i think that's bad for us  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i would agree with you  
uh  
i think one of the thing that i notice a lot  
i know it's touching social changes  
but uh to me what becomes socially acceptable  
and i i don't know if it's a factor of me growing older and seeing things through different eyes or if it's a factor of our society actually moving in that direction  
but i notice things on t v being more um open more i believe uh  
they portray things on t v obviously that they never would have years ago  
and you know and specifically nudity things like that uh  
i don't know  
i i've said several times to my husband that i feel like gee in ten years they'll have just full nudity on t v  
and nobody will think anything of it  
and to me that's surprising  
to me that's that's a big change to accept it  
and it comes across i think [subtly] you know a little at a time to where you get so used to seeing a little change that you know when they go one step further you don't notice it that much  
that's one of the biggest ones i've seen  
what about you  
uh_huh  
i tend to agree with you  
and i think there's a lot of that  
um yeah  
we have become lawsuit happy  
any little thing it's like let's see what i can get  
don't you think that maybe a lot of that came from um oh you know the the the era we went through that was like you know hey if it makes you happy do it  
you know kind of like disregard to others  
do what makes you happy  
and and yes  
we should take care of ourselves you know  
and we should see to our own lives but not to a total disregard of others  
um i don't know  
i think it's come to that a lot  
i see it a lot in my daughter  
i have a four year old  
and hers isn't a social thing as much as it's a stage they go through  
but whenever something happens it's you made me hit that  
you made me do this  
and so i try to tell her everything isn't always somebody else's fault  
you know you have to watch where you're going  
and   and so it's what you just said kind of hits home to me just through her  
so   i think you're right  
um in your opinion good or bad or both  
i do too  
i think part of that  
i don't know  
i think the role of women changing has been good in that women are feeling like in terms of their self confidence their self worth you know i can do something  
i can be somebody you know  
if i put my mind to it i can accomplish things too  
and i think that's good  
but um i think when you push you know maybe i think when that was first trying come about with you know what we know as the women's [lib] movement  
i think it was too extreme  
um i think you can be feminine and still be all those other things too you know  
and i think there's definite roles  
and i think you know part of the break up of the family maybe it's because of the the the social changes  
i don't know  
the fact that uh during their early changes where you know women did come more speak maybe speak out i was going to say come more out of themselves  
but speak out  
i think a lot of men were threatened by that  
i think now less men are you know because they're used to it  
it's around them  
um but i i don't know  
i i i don't know why the families are breaking up  
i think that may go back to what you said a minute ago about people not being responsible for themselves or their actions because it's like they don't go into the marriage with a commitment that this is going to work  
they go in and say well hey you know i'll stick with it while it's good  
and then i'll get out  
and i i i think that directly affects the effort that you put into that marriage or that commitment  
okay  
you ready to discuss the the topic  
okay  
the topic is social changes and discuss social changes in america and how they relate or how they differ today than they were ten fifteen or thirty years ago  
you ready for that  
okay  
pardon me  
okay  
well there's uh  
it's kind of an interesting topic  
and one that i think is quite fascinating because uh couple of years ago i guess uh  
not very not very long ago seemed like the whole world not just the united states but the whole world was kind of in a [standstill] where everyone was basically in uh you know a very comfortable position so to say even though the the cold war was was in full swing you know  
you had the the russians against the americans the communists against the free world  
and in the last couple of years things have changed dramatically not only on the political front but also on the economic front where uh couple of years ago we had uh america was one of the leading powers and one of the [strongest] nations in the world as far as economics were concerned  
and now we're having a very tough time in a [recessionary] period  
we're also have a very [humongous] trade deficit  
and uh and that's kind of frightening  
also you know a couple of years ago ten fifteen ten fifteen years ago an individual going into a career could expect to have that career basically throughout their whole life  
and thirty years ago that was that was basically it whereas now we're expected to have a career change every you know every couple of years and possibly four to five career changes throughout our lifetime  
and so i think uh you know things  
there's been an awful lot of social change lately  
and  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
true  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
true  
true  
uh_huh  
well do do you think that's good or bad  
you think that's great  
that's some  
yeah  
because a lot of people seem to [stagnate] once they get into position  
they they're very comfortable  
they lose the ability to learn  
and they in a sense become [unteachable]  
they think they know all there is to know in the area set path and you know come in and put my time in from nine to five  
and when that's over with that's that's it without even giving a second thought to advancing their education or getting extracurricular um education  
and and i think that's an excellent opportunity for us to expand ourselves also  
uh_huh  
right  
i agree with that  
i agree with that  
but i believe that uh an individual should really learn how to to learn  
learn how to adapt  
learn how to grow in the in their college or whatever education they might take  
well that that's good  
that's good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i read a few articles off in the newspaper and some publications where stress uh for those people that are laid off and also for those people that are not laid off but were threatened with a layoff and threatened with a reduction in their company is extremely high right now  
that stress is a very [prominent] factor in the work place  
and it affects  
what's the topic  
okay  
you bet  
i'll let you lead out  
i'll let you lead out  
i think one of the things that's interesting to me is if you look particularly at the political changes   is that the they seem to be social they seem to be economically driven also  
so if you look at russia and what's happened over there i think the change in communism was as a result of the economic problems that they were experiencing  
and of course i look at the economic problems in the united states right now  
one of the things you wonder is what that's going to do to us  
i think the other kind of changes like job changes and those kinds of things i mean i think it's great to even have three or four different careers   in your life  
i think it must have been terribly boring to go through   your life doing just one thing for fifty years or forty years  
some of that opportunity for job change in the fact that that aspects changing  
and the uncertainty of whether you're going to have a job is not as good  
but the fact that you really can make major changes in your life   and jobs  
i think it's great  
oh yeah  
i think one of the problems with with education as it relates to this though is that i don't know that education is prepared to help people make those changes  
it just seems a lot of the training and education that goes on is [gearing] people towards a profession   and not giving them the skills and whatever those skills are necessary to make those job changes which i think is going to be a hard thing for for people to face  
yeah  
there probably needs to be some training on how to to to adjust to these changes as they come about  
i mean if you look at the the high unemployment rate right now  
and you look at people who are in those situations i don't know that they have good coping skills or a lot of them even ideas of how to make those changes now  
so it seems to me that while those changes are taking place maybe we're not well preparing people to make the changes with them  
uh_huh  
uh let's see  
how about uh let's see about ten years ago  
uh what do you think was different ten years ago from now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we  
well uh actually ten years from today seems rather short  
uh but i do agree that uh generally it's society has sort of uh let's see rushed everything ahead  
and uh i don't know  
it leaves leaves a lot of time out for family and things like that  
in other words they just [prioritize] their lives differently  
but i think that has a lot to do with economic situation  
uh  
um it depends  
uh it's hard to say because i think people were busy ten twenty years ago too  
uh i just  
i'm twenty eight  
yeah  
yeah  
i just i think that things were a bit were have been busy all along  
it's just   a matter where priorities are at placed   and that uh usually as far as families are concerned there used to be just one person working and usually the other parent was home  
and now uh it's pretty much an economic necessity of for most in most places for both parents to work  
i think that's part of it too  
but i do think  
no  
no  
i don't  
no  
i don't think that  
but then there are a lot of people that that don't have that   but that really do need to work  
i think maybe those people that really do need to work both parents just to survive  
and   then there is is that other group that is   working to maintain a standard of living   that uh they think is is surviving which is really more luxuries  
uh but i i tend to think that it's less those people that have the two cars and everything than it is the group that is just trying to survive  
i'm saying that the uh the group that is just trying to survive from day to day where both parents are working   is more of the majority than the than the people that have the higher standard of living  
because if you look at economics across this country and statistics on who has the money and who the decreasing uh middle class in this country   i think that that's in my opinion the case  
so  
i mean i have met people that uh both that that just want to maintain a the standard of living and those that that really need the job  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i would say as far as social changes go uh i think families were more together  
they they did more things together  
uh they ate dinner at the table together  
uh the parents usually took out time uh you know more time than they do now to come with the children and just spend the day doing a family activity  
uh although i'm not a mother i i still think that uh a lot has changed since ten years ago  
uh what do you   think about that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
what about like as far as uh social changes in the individual  
do   you think that the individual has as much time as they did let's say ten twenty years ago  
uh_huh  
well how how old are you  
twenty eight  
okay  
i'm twenty three  
so there's maybe a five year gap between us  
so uh  
huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
do you think it's an economic necessity  
or do you think that we're we're uh all trying to keep up with a certain standard of living  
i mean do you think   people really need two cars and   a house in the suburbs or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
so you think it's  
which group are you saying is the one trying  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
and then sometimes i i often uh find that maybe there's so many different things available to us a microwave a v c r a answering machine   a you know a special a dishwasher uh a refrigerator and some of those items um for the for the uh  
well i guess we're sticking more to social changes  
but uh   people want all of that  
and not all of those are necessities  
so they're trying to  
it has become a necessity  
what do you think  
uh_huh  
i can be  
but go ahead  
right  
right  
we fax   everything  
we don't even wait for the mail anymore  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
you're expected to  
exactly  
and i recently read an article on just this that said stress today is so much worse  
it should be less because we have a microwave  
and our grandmothers had to bake brownies  
and we can throw them in a microwave for two minutes  
but the more conveniences we have the more that's expected of us  
and we have no down time  
like we don't stop and wait for things to happen because we don't have to  
so we keep moving  
we don't stop and wait for the things to bake and this to happen and that to happen  
we just hit buttons and keep going to the next thing  
so we have no relaxation time in between  
so they say that's really a bad thing that you need to learn a lot of ways to to deal with that and get your your time in between things  
so that's good  
that's an interesting point  
but i just think our our family lives have changed drastically  
and i think that's  
of course a part of it is technology  
i mean our kids where would they be without nintendo and you know their t v shows  
and  
some of that is really bad i think  
but we have all single families  
so many single families now  
uh a lot of working  
both parents are working  
so there's a whole big effect on our kids  
and not very many of my daughter's friends really are on their original mother and father  
you know i'm wondering what this is going to do in ten and twenty years  
you're probably right  
and i'm an o b nurse  
and that's never really occurred to me but that's that's interesting  
i never really thought about it that way  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
when is this good or not good  
we don't know that yet  
yeah  
i don't know either  
that's true  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's kind of scary  
huh well that's true  
but i  
it's just very very different  
and i guess every ten years it's just been very different  
so and i don't know what's going to happen  
uh i know what i'm seeing here at my job is that people are having their children much later in life   so that they're establishing careers  
and they've got their homes  
and they've got  
well uh i can't be terribly [authoritative] on what life was like thirty years ago uh because i'm not that old yet  
um  
uh i know that uh  
i mean obviously you look at at the technological aspect of of social change  
i mean you didn't have uh you didn't have video games  
you didn't have home computers  
you didn't have xerox machines  
i mean uh you you try to  
you go into a a business today  
and you you try to imagine the whole thing except running off of carbon paper  
and it's almost [inconceivable] now because the xerox machines and and everything have become such you know such a a a part of the way we live  
and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah uh  
a business associate of mine was was talking about how it used to be where you would send things through the mail  
and you had to do something  
this was concerning the s e c  
and so if they had business to do they had to finish it you know three days in advance so they could get it through the mail  
and now it's the kind of thing where you can work up until the last minute   because you can get it there you know   in in a matter of minutes   you know through a fax machine  
and because of that these quote unquote convenience type items have made work that much more intense and that much harder  
because you're expected to work on stuff up until the last minute  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well there's that  
and there's the fact that you know nowadays fewer and fewer couples are deciding to have kids which generally tends to happen  
i mean the u s would be actually [declining] in population slightly if it weren't for the fact that we   have continuation large scale immigration into the country  
yeah  
yeah  
i saw that the numbers on that awhile back  
and i was like uh_huh  
so  
well uh   in terms of the long term effect effect on on america in terms of the culture and everything i don't know  
uh   most of the of the next generation is going to be in or or an   extremely large part of the next generation is going to be you know second generation uh from immigrant parents  
and they're going to be really struggling  
and i don't think that america is currently the type of environment where struggling up from the bottom is necessarily considered to be good  
i mean it's no longer the the uh the accomplishment that it that it once was  
and not that many people are really trying i don't think  
yeah  
yeah  

i know remote control was a great big box
that was connected to the back of the t v
uh_huh
yes
you got to well let's see you
i guess you grew up in the you were a teenager in the seventies right
okay
did you go to like woodstock and all that
you know like that one little girl that wrote who did she write uh they showed her in some kind of airplane crash seems like it was an eleven year old girl wrote gorbachev or noriega or someone
uh_huh
uh_huh
but it's just not safe anymore
uh_huh
well how old are your kids
okay
right
well we used to ride around
well i guess it would be a city block
my mom didn't mind
i wouldn't dream of letting my little boy take off
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh_uh
well no
but back
even when i was growing up
it wasn't drugs wasn't as now drugs was pretty bad
but they weren't near as bad as they are now
and this child abuse wasn't as bad as it is now either
and there's so many missing kids
uh_huh
well
yeah
that is because even in my time smoking was just cool
all the cool people did it
went outside
but my [stepdaughter's] getting like that
and that's pretty hard because her granny smokes
and we smoke
so
oh yeah
have a smoke free
really
yeah
they do what about two dollars a pack now
well who is the major enemy now
i don't know when i was growing up i was scared of red china
now everybody told me that they had the biggest army in the world which i guess they still do because yeah
because [china's] real [densely] populated yeah
i think it's pretty amazing
i think um that my grandparents especially have seen a whole lot of change in their lives
but uh
well technology
but also morals and things like that
i think even even in the last like four years you can still see things falling so fast
and that can be for me that's the biggest change
it's so frustrating
um to see everything
[disintegrating] and losing your your losing control it seems like of the moral fiber of our society
uh_huh
uh_huh
i think you're really
right
i think like well even with computers um
you can there
i mean there's so much that's happening in in that field
and it it just has forced us to go
so fast
and um even the way we write it used to be if you read a book like you know thomas hardy
he takes two chapters to establish the mood and and just describes the scenery and what's been going on and stuff
and now we just chop all that out and say well let's get to the point
and
yeah
yeah
exactly
yeah
you feel out of control
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it is it's really frustrating
and the way our families you know our nuclear families are [disintegrating] and stuff
it's just a real you don't have the the social networks we used to have to to protect the family and protect the people in the family and things like that with everyone moving you know every five years
you lose your contacts you lose trusted friends that you know they'll do things you know in america
it seems now it's independence is the thing
and you know heaven forbid if you ask anyone for anything
whereas we used to be able to depend on each other and trust each other and you'll help me
and i'll help you not
and not in this [corruptive] sense but in the sense of you know when you're in trouble and you need you know someone to babysit the kids sure
yeah
exactly
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i think i think because it's a necessity
as as as human beings we need a network around us of people we can rely on
thing is that right now it's such a um temporary thing that how far does it go
how far can you depend on them
and
uh just about um it would be interesting
to discuss the social changes
of the last ten or twenty years
and um i guess for me the most obvious is women in the work field
that uh of course when i was growing up not very many women went to work at all
most everyone was at home
and some of my friends whose mothers were teachers or something seemed a little bit embarrassed that
their mothers weren't at home
yes
and uh but nowadays it's just so common
a necessity
and that when i am uh at home now that i've had children i've stopped uh working that it's kind of embarrassing when i go to the store and they ask uh when i write a check out and then they say can i have your work number please
and then i don't have a work number to get give to them
and they begin to think um i wonder if this is a good check
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yes
that's
true
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yes
that's true
right
no
and it wasn't like my parents always watch the clock carefully when they make any long distance phone call
and it's it's pennies but for them
it's just a socialized behavior
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's true
that's probably true
uh_huh
right
me too
well that's good
in in in our homes we all have a uh much more high tech compared to the people ten twenty years ago
right
unbelievable
and everyone has uh multiple televisions probably
and uh_huh
uh_huh
right
we load up on all of the conveniences and they're not special to us anymore just a
necessity
and they're the people who don't have televisions are are uh you know unusual in our society
uh_huh
yeah
i do
and like even even little kids who watch like sesame street and everything's really fast paced and they don't have to to sit down and concentrate on one thing for a long time
yeah
yeah
yeah
just the other day i uh some a m station or something had a um like a radio show just like the old days you know
it was like from the old days
and i was thinking gosh that's i mean because you have to imagine what everybody looks like
and you don't understand it until you actually hear it and have to do it
and it's
i mean you know it's just too bad that everybody has everything fed to them
yeah
yeah
i mean
now we always have to do something new or better
or more exciting can't just
sit around and talk for awhile
you know
it's too bad
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
it really is
um just
well i'm fifteen so
oh just a lot of times we do sit around and because like uh i'm really glad that i'm in like uh the classes like honors classes and so it's like what's really good about that is that you meet people who really are interested in in talking about things
and discussing world issues and it just
and it makes me sick to go to school and know people who just that's all they do is like go out and you know try to go find a new guy or something
it's just so immature and oh
just [futile] you know
no
i'll be driving in a few months
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
it is
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it was it does sound corny but it's so much fun
yeah
yeah
you really can
it's awesome
yeah
yeah
yeah
i know everybody's
i mean everybody's always busy and worried and so many problems people don't just sit down and you know just talk and know everything's going to be okay
yeah
yeah
things go in cycles you know maybe
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh that's the truth
yeah
nice talking to you
yeah
talk to you later
so what do you think
yes
yeah
right that's true i mean i'm twenty six now
and i came through high school with about the first generation that had computers in the classroom
and all that
and it certainly has been good for me because i see myself you know when i learn a new system a new program or a new computer language that it is much easier for me than for let's say my colleagues who are a lot older
but just as intelligent and whatever
uh_huh
that's true
uh_huh
and what do you think that's just a question of becoming more aware or has it become less safe over the years
yeah
i would agree with you
um that's right
uh_huh
yeah
i don't know
i think a lot of what causes it is just economics naturally
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i suppose it has uh
right
uh well let's see
i think that the mass communication that we have in the world now is in general a good thing
and i think it has its good points and bad points
but in general
it's pretty positive
uh more or less yes
i mean it is we have the global village you know like [mick] [lewen] was saying
but it doesn't
i don't think that it really means that we have a sense of community yet as a world
which which hopefully may be coming we'll have to see
uh_huh
right
well yeah
that definitely
right
i mean when we're well with things like the war in iraq
we were dealing with other people's affairs for our own interests
certainly
is what i believe
our community doesn't really have any organized recycling drive  
i live in san antonio  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there's there's been no emphasis on recycling at all in san antonio  
i used to work for the power company here  
and there was discussion for a while about uh building a garbage burning uh   electric generation plant  
but it just wasn't cost effective at the time  
and there's there's a little recycling trucks and things throughout the city  
but there isn't any uh advertising campaign  
there's just not any push to recycle  
i recycle my newspapers and uh my aluminum stuff  
but uh they make it as hard as possible  
it's not very convenient to do  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
where i work now we recycle all the computer paper  
but that's about the extent of it  
yeah  
yeah  
and i'm sure that the uh driving factor for recycling the computer paper is that we get paid to do so  
we sell the paper back to the uh to a paper manufacturing company  
well it it [defrays] the cost of buying the paper i think  
i  
not by much but it does [defray] it some  
enough to make it worth our while to have several bins through out the building  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
well the last time uh someone moved offices in my building  
and uh the uh properties people came in with all with the good cardboard boxes  
not the cheap ones of course   and packed everything up and moved them and left them lying around  
i i took several home because i'm moving pretty soon  
and they're good boxes  
and they were just going to throw them away  
yeah  
huh_uh  
right  
and and these boxes are  
you can [unfold] them  
so you know there they don't take up much storage space  
yeah  
yeah  
i i felt a little guilty about taking the boxes for about two seconds until i realized they would be thrown away  
so  
i thought well i was doing them a favor by taking them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the ones at the grocery store half the time they've pulled the lid off  
so you can't use it anyway  
those  
and the real sturdy boxes that copy room paper comes in with the nice lids those get thrown away  
and i am constantly scouting out the copy room for those boxes  
those are perfect boxes to put files in  
what what i've done in the past  
i don't have any now  
but i would buy some cheap wallpaper from somewhere and cover those nice boxes with the lids  
and you can stack them up and and leave them out and put things in them even  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know it's cheaper than going and buying the kind at target that are all ready with the little design on them or whatever  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i live near a walmart  
and there's a big uh uh huge dumpster looking thing sitting out front  
in fact i think there's two of them that have several openings  
and it's for recycling  
and they have aluminum and newspaper and plastic and some other category  
i don't  
maybe there's two for aluminum  
and you don't get paid  
but it's real convenient just to chunk the newspapers in there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it gets to be uh  
i guess you have to make it a habit  
i mean you have to get so used to doing it that it's a habit  
uh_huh  
oh  
and someone else isn't going to take the time to put it in two separate bags  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
well i thank you  
bye  
bye  
where do you live  
san antonio  
well uh i live in garland  
and we're just beginning to  
we we just built a real big recycling center   that recycles everything [imaginable]  
but as far as uh trash pick up and stuff that a lot of the communities are doing   they're testing that  
so they're really not full full force into it  
but they're trying  
so we're attempting it  
but i wish we could do more  
uh_huh  
oh  
huh  
right  
that's what i do  
right  
when they put centers and stuff like that  
yeah  
well we have those uh which i think is one of the best things is those cash for cans  
i don't know if you all have those things around  
and i really like that because that makes it real convenient because they're in almost every shopping center  
and you can just stop by  
now everything else like the uh paper and plastic and stuff you still have to go to the centers  
but   but for aluminum that's real nice  
and i started doing that at work  
um i put out a a trash can and and for people to put their aluminum cans in  
and that's really helped a lot  
i mean everybody's pitched in  
and   you know it doesn't bother them to walk little bit farther put their aluminum in a can rather than just throwing it in their trash can  
so i really i really like that  
but people are really concerned  
it's just that sometimes it's not the right people   which is really really sad because i wish we would do more  
at work we started uh all the recycling stuff  
they're really trying  
i think what started it at work was that planet earth thing we had last year  
and uh that really started a lot of stuff off  
but you know sometimes it [dwindles] down  
that's good  
well that's uh  
at least your trying something  
it's just yeah  
it would be nice if it could be more  
oh do you really  
well that's a neat idea  
right  
well that's that's really good  
i mean at least they're trying  
yeah  
i know a lot of companies that waste so much that  
i'm even trying  
you know that was one thing we noticed last week that we had some new people move into our building  
and you know the nice cardboard boxes that you move packing boxes   and they were just used one time and thrown in the dumpster  
and i thought i don't understand this you know  
we're trying to cut cost and everything like that and and recycle and all that stuff  
and and here we are wasting  
and i don't understand sometimes the way the thinking the logic behind it  
uh_huh  
that's exactly what i did  
exactly what i did exactly  
because i didn't want to waste that  
and it's hard enough to find good packing boxes  
right  
exactly right  
well that's very good  
right  
right  
i found about five uh about nine of them that had not even been folded into boxes   that were in the dumpsters  
oh gosh  
so many people need so many people go to the grocery store and stuff and get those boxes   when you know these are perfect  
so  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
that's exactly what i do  
uh_huh  
they're good for storage and stuff like that  
that's what i do with a lot of my daughter's things is i'll store her you know like her out dated or out of out of season clothes in them  
and they're just perfect  
uh_huh  
and they look just as good  
that's a smart idea  
i think i'll have to try that  
that's really cute  
they're the exact same thing  
that's all they are  
they just made them look fancy  
you saved me some money  
and you're recycling  
well that's neat  
well do you all have uh  
we have places that uh pay for paper to recycle  
i know you do yours at work  
but for newspaper  
but ours are real hard to find  
that's the one thing that really [discourages] me  
i saved you know i recycle paper  
but they  
it's almost like they don't want the paper because they don't pay at all  
i mean they're real hard to find the places that pay  
and that's really discouraging  
i mean i just go ahead and take it to the the regular place where it's you know they just accept it  
but they uh i think they should  
yeah  
if they want people to recycle i think it's uh you know  
like the aluminum you know  
it gets people to uh doing it you know  
you might you don't have to pay them a lot  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's that's good  
i  
the one thing i don't like about the newspaper also is uh  
like at work we have two different trash cans at your desk  
you have one for paper and one for just your normal trash  
but in uh in the paper one you have to separate  
you have to make sure you don't throw away any of the slick paper like magazines  
you can't throw any of that away  
and you can't throw certain file type things away  
and i just think it's such a hassle  
it seems like it would be it would be easy to take it all  
i don't know  
of course i don't know all that about recycling  
so   it probably is a hassle  
but i do get tired of having to separate paper you know  
right  
right  
and we had uh a write up in our paper uh this last time at work about um  
they come and empty your trash every other day they do your normal trash  
and every other day they do your recycling trash  
and somebody was writing in complaining that the people had uh dumped all the trash in the same bin  
and when they were questioned about it they said well we're running late  
or we didn't have time to do those bins or something  
and that's real discouraging thinking you're sitting there working to separate it  
and then they  
right  
right  
so they're they're really trying to start keeping an eye out for those you know  
talking to the people again about you know  
separate them  
because that is discouraging when you when you do that  
it was hard to get used to those two different trash cans  
but luckily that will all get straightened out  
and and they'll they'll start separating them  
because i don't mind doing that  
i feel like i'm doing uh doing something for the community when i'm doing that  
but anyway  
you too  
bye  
where do you live  
uh_huh  
well i used to  
i lived there for a long time  
but i'm now in palo alto california which is i think the recycling capital of the world  
so we have many recycling activities  
and i'm and in full uh support of all of them  
uh_huh  
well that's something  
but it it seems to me that we've gotten a whole lot better um cooperation out here uh by setting it up so that we pay just a little bit extra uh  
actually i don't think we pay very much extra at all too  
but the uh garbage men   come by uh on your regular garbage day and pick up the recycling out at the curb  
yeah  
we have [burlap] sacks  
and they give us one for aluminum and uh steel one for metals   and one for glass  
and then you can either bundle your newspapers or put them in grocery bags  
so we have we leave three little piles   that they need out on the curb every thursday  
and the garbage men come by and uh collect them and leave us new bags when ours get old and ratty or leave the ones if they're still in good shape  
and the it really pays for itself because oh then the city   gets the money from the recycling  
yeah  
the one thing i wish we could recycle is magazines  
but they claim that because of the way they're bound they uh it's too expensive to recycle them  
at my office   we have two big cardboard boxes in the library where everybody goes to pick up their mail  
and they're uh  
one's for white paper  
and one's for colored paper  
so anything like manuscripts or computer paper or   things like that goes in those boxes  
but we get tons of catalogs and things like that and magazines  
and there's no way to get rid of them  
it just seems like such a waste  
uh_huh  
well that would be a help  
i wish they would do that here  
we have got so little landfill space left that we're going to run out before the end of this decade  
and it's really going to be a mess when they have to start hunting for places to put the things  
we did have uh another novel uh experiment start this year  
now we can put all our yard clippings out  
you can you buy these super giant heavy duty paper bags  
they're about four feet high  
and you get them for i think it's about fifty cents apiece at the grocery store you um usually buy them by the dozen  
and then you put all your yard clippings and uh leaf [rakings] and anything that will be [compostible]  
and those and they the garbage men also pick those up on thursdays  
and then the uh they take them to a special part of our dump where composting is now in full swing  
and at the end of every year uh they sell all the [composts] to [nurserymen] and to local people who want to put it on their flower beds  
yeah  
if they make it so that it's not a horrendous inconvenience i think most people would  
right  
no  
i think it's it's to me more of a convenience to have them come pick it up   then to get that two cents when you take it to the store  
we still have bins at the grocery stores where you can turn in bottles and cans   for cash  
but so few people uh have enough to make that worthwhile you'd spend more in gas getting down there then you get back  
now do the grocery stores in houston have recycling for their paper bags and plastic bags  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we can get a nickel apiece for any paper bags that we bring back to be reused  
they just take it off like they do a coupon  
they can just subtract it from your bill  
and they have a giant bin by the front door for the plastic bags  
and they say as long as it's clean they don't want a plastic bag that's full of [goop]  
here they don't want your rotted tomatoes  
but they want any clean and dry plastic bag  
so i keep  
and the thing is i hardly have room now for all the things that we're saving it to recycle  
so right outside the back door i've got the two [burlap] bags hung up for the cans and bottles  
and there right outside the that place where the garbage can is we have the bag for the newspapers  
and now we've got the bag for the plastic bags  
oh yeah  
well how nice  
that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's  
they just put all our christmas trees in the regular uh compost   pickup  
so they did say that you had to put it out within i think it was uh three weeks after   christmas  
and uh otherwise you would have to treat it like you would any other lawn refuse  
it would have to be cut into four foot lengths  
so you know if we have branches or something   they have to be cut in four foot lengths  
but otherwise uh they have to be in one of their paper bags  
and they even picked up our uh styrofoam packing materials  
they brought uh the week after christmas they left a plastic bag on everybody's front [doorknob] with a little note on it saying we're trying something new next week only   if you have any uh of those little uh styrofoam peanuts that   any of your christmas presents were packed in put them in this bag and leave it out with your recycling  
and we'll uh take all of those back and try to recycle them  
but i  
that's not going to be a regular feature  
that was just a one time thing right after christmas  
well those things must take up a huge amount of space in landfills  
they don't mash  
they don't [compress] at all  
and they stay forever  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do too  
the difficulty with that is that very few people have enough to make it worthwhile  
it they really have to rely on businesses that generate a lot of that stuff  
uh because otherwise uh you know they're not going to go house to house collecting it  
and you're not going to bother if you have one bag full   to drive all the way to some recycling center to turn in just your little plastic peanuts  
yeah  
now we quit that about two years ago no three years ago when we got china [mugs] for everybody  
so and the only difficulty with that is that we're in the middle of a five year drought  
and so it's a real difficult choice whether we want styrofoam cups to fill up our landfills or uh china cups to use up our water  
but at the moment we're using the china cups  
and everybody gets one at the beginning of the year  
and then uh your supposed to keep it recycled every day  
yeah  
well let us hope that everybody's going to be paying more attention to this and that we will get uh better reuse of things  
because  
yep  
it sure will  
well good to talk  
uh in the houston area  
oh that's great  
oh we are too  
our community is uh just starting to get organized about it  
they just opened up a recycling center where we go and donate our our things and dump them off ourselves  
and uh it  
uh_huh  
i think that's great  
there's a few places in houston where they're trying that out  
i don't know if it's the if they've done it [citywide] yet or not where they have the color [coded] uh bags and uh bins  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we're we're all for it  
our um  
we've got several bins in our on in our garage where we uh you know sort things out and and take it to to the appropriate places  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh it does  
it does  
but i'm sure that they can uh find some sort of uh use for them if you know you know there  
i've seen talk about uh using garbage for uh energy  
and so you know you could also apply the magazines toward that  
yes  
oh i know it  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh that's great  
right  
well that's a great idea  
i wish we were that uh involved in uh or that our city was so involved in that involved in recycling   like that  
because you know i've talked to many people  
and we wouldn't mind going its extra effort to do it uh  
yeah  
oh yeah you know  
and i don't mind you know  
at first it was the the little extra money that you got you know returning the cans in and stuff like that  
but now you know i don't mind as long as things are getting recycled you know that we don't get reimbursed  
uh_huh  
oh i oh i know it  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
and then the plus the time that you waste standing in line is valuable also  
we have  
i know of one that the one that we use uh has uh recycling for the bags  
and uh and they're promoting the cloth bags you know the reusable cloth bags  
oh that's great  
oh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
i understand uh  
my husband about once a weekend he'll go uh to a couple of areas where he knows that the people just throw cans out  
and he'll go pick them up because he just can't stand that  
he he  
and uh it's so you know  
he we have all our piles of of recyclables also  
i remember at christmas the the only thing that i'm  
when you were talking about the composting the only thing that our city did that was they uh provided a place for us to take our christmas trees   uh to for them to mulch   for for city use  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well that sounds like you all really have a a great system worked out there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well see that's one  
well the  
but uh something does need to be done about the styrofoam that uh  
oh yeah  
i mean they don't uh uh  
no  
right  
and i've seen where some places have taken a plastic and uh they're recycling them into other plastics   and the styrofoam also into insulation and things like that  
and i think that would be great if they could get something organized along those lines  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
oh i was thinking about you know like the uh the styrofoam used at uh the fast food restaurants   that if everybody uh  
and so  
yeah  
i know like our cafeteria here uses a lot of styrofoam  
but uh  
huh  
well that's good  
that's a  
they should last awhile  
i believe we are  
i i have to believe everybody is starting to pay attention and take heed of what is happening  
and so it will it will be good   in the long run  
well i enjoyed it  
well since you live close i don't know if you know um about what louisville is doing with recycling  
or are you familiar with any of that  
huh_uh  
yeah  
you know i read you know  
when they first started doing that in the paper and i read about that  
i was just praying that that would be in our area because we've been recycling for quite some time  
and you know we separate everything out and then have to haul it up to a [metco]   you know which is a real pain  
so if they would come up   curbside recycling  
well now have they moved them behind wal mart  
oh god  
oh  
that's really nice to know because we were doing the same thing  
because to take it to a [metco] you have to take it when they're open you know   which is always a real pain  
and so when that thing came up in wal mart parking lot we thought oh this is great  
and we started taking them up there  
and then all the sudden it disappeared you know  
i didn't know  
and we're going oh no there goes our recycling place  
that's really nice to find out that it's behind there  
well we pretty much do um plastic milk cartons and um um um newspapers  
i couldn't even think of what you call them  
plastic milk cartons newspapers and cans and glass i guess is the four is really the four things that we do  
yeah  
yeah  
and really that's about that's really about it  
is there anything any place else that really takes anything other than that that you know of  
oh really  
i know  
i know  
i know  
we're kind of the same way  
you know at first you know you  
at first it was a real it was a real hassle  
and i'm wondering are we really going to do this  
but you kind of get i guess into a little routine you know where it becomes is automatic now to throw   different things in different places  
you know so i just go you know  
we have a pretty good size [pantry] in our kitchen  
and i've just got three trash cans sitting in there  
you know we just kind of dump things in each one if you know   if we get them  
so  
oh they do too  
and they're impossible to crush  
i mean you can't get the down to any size you know  
if you get four milk cartons and that fills up trash bag you know pretty easily  
so you know  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that will be good  
sure  
let somebody get something out of it  
yeah  
ha ha  
well i was kind of hoping with  
you know do you work for t i  
no  
yeah  
there was a  
t i has got this organization called t a d which is t [i'ers] against drugs  
and you know we're recycling aluminum cans up here and uh just what you would buy out of the machines and drink here  
and there was crushers out in all of the hallways you know  
and that's  
they use the money from that to fund this t [i'ers] against drugs program  
it's  
you know t i doesn't give them any money all everything is made from that  
and they had talked about having a thing like one saturday a month you could come and drop your aluminum cans off from home you know  
and i'm kind of like yeah  
i shall  
they would do that because at least somebody was getting the money out of it you know that was going to use it for good  
so  
sounds like you have a little one just like i do  
yeah  
mine was two in december  
well it was good to talk to you  
oh do they really  
curbside pick up  
i really hope they do that in louisville  
it would make it a lot easier on all of us  
talk to you later  
bye bye  
well i know that we have some relatives that live around like the area in there  
i know they're doing some curbside recycling as a kind of a test there  
huh_uh  
they'll help you   recycle because we there is some bins like behind wal mart that take some things  
yeah  
because i finally asked because you know we had all of those milk cartons  
and there was nowhere else to take them  
and they had it in front of wal mart  
and i ask in wal mart  
and they said they moved it just behind  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
like aluminum cans  
that's about what we do too  
well i guess um down in kind of in north dallas there is a place that will take almost anything  
uh i don't we just don't have the room to store all that much you know  
i don't want to be running down there every week   or whatever  
yeah  
yeah  
those milk cartons take up so much room  
i guess we kind of started recycling after i moved here about a year and a half ago  
we were using baby food  
and there was so many baby food jars   kind of what started it  
some of our neighbors were doing it  
and so you know when i found out some places to take it  
and um like um they also take some things at the flower mound dump behind the fire station there  
and i know that they're going to use you know the money for that to build some kind of [multipurpose] field and that type of thing   put lights and stuff  
so you know if i'm not going to get the money for aluminum i would just assume give it to the city of flower mound   to do something with you know  
yeah  
that's true  
and they won't raise our taxes  
yeah  
no  
i don't  
i have a friend   of mine told me about this program is the reason that i'm  
yeah  
sorry  
she'll be two in july  
oh  
well it was nice to talk to you  
i know they've started over in richardson where my dad lives  
they pick up newspapers i think  
yeah  
okay  
okay  
we we can uh be recorded while we talk about it  
no  
we don't have mandatory  
we actually we're kind of slow up here  
and we've just started doing recycling probably last summer  
and it's all voluntary  
so that's interesting  
cities have a mandatory recycling  
yeah  
when i was a kid we used to collect newspapers and bring them to a recycle thing  
we got like a penny a pound for them  
oh my  
oh i didn't realize  
you would think  
now up here i i suppose they send it all back to the mill  
and there are paper mills within a couple of hundred miles of uh  
actually there is one in northern vermont  
so there's probably a paper mill that's sixty miles from here  
i didn't think that  
you know in the large city that if the next recycling if the next mill is more like five hundred miles away   it's a lot of money to transport  
do you have to buy metal  
like copper is a very good one to collect  
even aluminum  
yeah  
so  
uh we do the recycling  
and our city will pick up our recyclables  
they have these little blue bins  
um i don't recycle personally  
i i'm saying i want to do it  
but i don't get a lot of magazines  
i don't get a  
i don't buy the newspaper  
but i do have a lot of uh  
my trash has a lot of tin cans and a lot of a lot of different papers and [cardboards]  
yes  
but we have a bottle return  
a lot of the northern states and a lot of the eastern states have bottles  
we've had five cent deposits on our bottles for years  
oh they should definitely get um the nickel [returnable]  
it's great for the kids because  
see a lot of the kids get the money from it  
and it's great for the boy scouts running around they knock door to door and the collect the bottles sometimes  
yeah  
and recycle  
oh yes  
i see that  
but it takes away employment from the resource  
and its  
i do too  
they don't either  
yeah  
like i say it's not a very controversial thing  
everyone thinks we should do it  
it's just that we're so lazy  
i mean like personally i don't want to clean my  
i just have can cat food  
i don't want to clean the can and take the label off it and put it in a separate bin  
you know i'd just rather get rid of that thing and throw it in the trash  
yeah  
i think i would be like  
when i bring my bottles back if they're pretty clean and stuff so they can sit in my cellar for a couple of months  
and i get a whole bunch of them and bring them and bring them over  
now if i had a recycling center and i kept it clean like if i washed all the cans and things i wouldn't mind if it sat around too much  
but if if it [stunk] or something i wouldn't like doing it  
but um i produce quite a bit of trash  
my you know house  
and i see it  
but i don't see so much that i can recycle  
like i say it's a lot of different type paper and cardboard  
i'm not a real plastic person user but a lot of paper um pretty much  
and i don't know how they sort that  
but if if i used a lot of can goods and i do use a lot of laundry [detergent] and a lot of plastic bottles i would think that i i would have a recycling center  
but now it's just me and my husband  
so i don't know  
yeah  
i know what you're saying  
but we have we have a very aggressive recycling at work  
and i'm the one who will pick the newspaper out of the trash and bring it to the recycle bin  
see some people it's the recycle bin is on their way out  
instead of carrying your newspapers when they get done with them at the end of the day they throw them in the trash  
um no  
we don't  
but other other offices do  
they have a box for papers  
yeah  
oh  
well that's that's a really good idea because um like our uh fruit juices for some reason when they're in a can don't come with a deposit  
and they're thinking about putting a deposit on them because pretty much you have to you're having a whole separate recyclable bin just for these fruit cans where they're   so much easier just to put a deposit on it because most probably ninety percent of the aluminum cans do have deposits because they're beer and soda  
but when they sell juice it's some strange [quirk] in the law you don't have to have a deposit on it  
and even like the a very fine juice jar does not have to have a deposit on it  
but if it's got soda in it it does  
so it's a strange  
yeah  
they should they should clean clear that up  
it wouldn't take them much to put a stamp on the uh juice cans as easily as the soda  
so but [redemption] centers are a big thing up here  
they get a penny a can they handle  
they give you five cents when they return the can to the distributor  
i think they either get a penny or two pennies a can  
yeah  
is is bottle return down there a heated debate  
oh yeah  
well we  
well here you can't drink  
well  
yes  
well i know i was in atlanta  
and you could walk out the bar with your drink in your hand  
but here let me put that in a paper cup for you  
so that was strange  
but i think  
if some people they have  
they say well we're not going to start a can deposit because you have to get all these um the the recycle center you have to deal with the can and then you have to to recycle it  
and their [problem's] already solved because they can just come to states that do have bottle deposits   see how they handle it  
and see if it's a good way  
and then do it that way because as like i say people are making money on it  
the cans do are worth something  
okay  
well is your  
does your city have mandatory uh recycling  
um there there're some places that are strongly encouraging it  
and that they city will pick it up  
that's been one of the arguments here  
i'm just sitting here looking we've got four bins of glass and [plasticine] stuff  
but we have to carry it uh some distance  
and some places um you can sell your uh recyclables  
and for example our church was collecting newspapers  
well it turns out that so much  
the problem in texas is that uh they've got so much paper now from people recycling that they've got no way to uh [reprocess] it  
it requires an it requires essentially a paper mill to recycle it  
and so the value has gone down  
it turns out it wasn't worth for the church to do  
well  
yeah  
well see that's  
in in dallas there no plan to build  
i think there there's some in east texas there's some [pulp] mills  
but uh you have to go to houston  
and it's interesting  
and then there's places that will buy metal  
and they still buy aluminum can and likes that  
well do you do do you do recycling  
oh  
well do you drink soda and such in aluminum cans  
oh so it's worth taking them back  
well see we don't have  
we have we have most of our soft drinks are in plastic liter or two liter bottles  
oh that's it  
you'll you'll  
there is a down side to all this you know about no good deed going [unpunished]   that uh my mother sells um trees that they make paper out of  
and so every time i recycle newspapers in fact there's a there's a uh  
[kimberly] and clark the makers of [kleenex] and such   has a uh a big paper mill  
in fact i almost went to work for them  
i was offered a job and turned it down because my mother got it for me  
it's twenty or thirty miles from my house  
every time you recycle that's one less tree my mother can sell  
and uh so it's a question should i be diligent and um   and and recycle and put my mother out of her livelihood  
but it's an interesting point though that you know everybody's so anxious to recycle  
and i suppose it does provide some [gainful] employment  
but  
well but in general i think it's a good idea because   like the glass you can't argue that the glass  
it doesn't [biodegrade] and and uh the plastics obviously  
so we might as well recycle those  
yeah  
well that's what we've got  
we started about new year's we decided we'd get ambitious  
well we took one load over there  
and now we've got these containers filling up with stuff  
and you know it's not a very high priority thing to go haul these containers over there  
yeah  
but every little bit helps  
right  
well do you have separate trash cans at your desk  
well we have we have one that's recyclable and and then for uh lunch sacks and waste food  
and they gave us a list of things that aren't  
and it turns out it's not so bad  
i i get a lot of reports that that are covered in plastic or like saran wrap or something anyway  
and then uh cardboard there's a few  
it's interesting that we're we're recycling computer type paper  
and and uh one day they'll pick up uh  
the cleaning people come through and they'll pick up recycled paper  
and then the next day they'll pick up the other  
so  
depending on how much  
you know and there's a lot of actually it works pretty well  
and then we have a uh waste uh cans for aluminum in the in the break areas at work  
yeah  
yeah  
that's an interesting [distinction]  
yeah  
well see well see those of us that don't have state income taxes  
yet   that's the big debate here in texas that the legislature wants to put one in  
and it's interesting what people get upset about  
uh it really is  
well no  
the the big issue was is is when we moved here a few years ago is whether it was okay for you to uh drink beer while you were driving your pickup truck   and throw it out at the in uh  
we're not civilized now you can no longer you cannot drink beer and drive  
but   but it was it was actually legal  
yeah  
well you know the other   well the other thing is it also is is a is a a good habit uh to uh just to conserve resources you know where they you know because you get in the habit of that you think in terms of of uh of of things like saving  
so what do you think about it  
how are we doing in recycling  
are we  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do a lot of work with the boy scouts  
and we try to do a lot  
but there's still a lot more we can do  
you know i don't recycle my newspapers myself  
but i noticed in one of the sales catalogs this weekend they have a like a a clothes hamper kind of thing that you know you lay your string in then you put your papers in there   tie them all up and bundle them up  
so i figured i might get me one of those   because we don't always read the newspaper  
sometimes it just sits around for a while  
and then we just chuck it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
see and  
yeah  
see and here in lubbock everything's so close  
i can imagine what it's like up there  
yeah  
see i went out to payless cashways here a couple of days ago as a matter of fact and got me one of those little can crushers that i could put on the wall  
and then i put me a little five gallon bucket  
and it's just outside the garage door  
so every time we drink a coke or whatever we crush the can and just drop it into the bucket  
yeah  
i got one from payless cashways  
and it's actually metal  
it's not plastic  
i didn't want to buy a plastic one  
yeah  
but payless cashways has them  
and they're metal  
and i don't know what affiliate of payless cashways you have up there  
but it was only like seven dollars not too bad  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't  
yeah  
i don't think it would crush steel cans  
it's pretty tough  
no  
you could probably just you know  
yeah  
they won't yeah they won't take any [lint] free paper  
or see i work at t i  
we do a lot of recycling out there  
now we recycle all our computer paper and our cardboard  
but that's just now come on board  
you know we've been throwing paper out there away for years  
and we're just now getting on board to recycling   ever since this big earth day thing came out you know  
yeah  
i'm sure they are  
t i is doing it pretty well nation wide i'm sure  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i bought a  
i got one at work that i bought for one of the guys there at work  
it's his birthday  
we're pretty good friends  
and what it is is a recycled paper bag  
and it's just got happy birthday printing on it and a cute little phrase inside  
and it's just a paper bag  
you know and it's really cute  
but i think we're doing better and better all the time  
still don't  
no  
there's not going to be any room shortly  
i don't know what new york does about theirs  
i guess they still ship it out on [barges] somewhere  
yeah  
so but i think we're getting better at it  
i think there's quite a bit more we could do  
but you're right sometimes it does seem like it's more trouble than what it would be worth  
yeah  
yeah  
it sure is  
yeah  
yeah  
well they'll get at it sooner  
i guess the schools will get into it too sooner or later  
you know they have  
we tried to have an aluminum can drive with the cub scouts that i have  
and we just don't have any place to store those kind of cans  
you know if we go out and pick up a bunch of cans from people sure they'll save them for us there's no problem there  
but what do you do with them in the meantime  
now i don't want a can a garage full of cans  
you know  
no  
they're just not they're not prepared for it  
yeah  
yeah  
they do  
you know the more trash you have laying around the more bugs you get  
that's for sure  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
myself  
about the only thing i really recycle around here is aluminum cans  
so  
well if we all try a little bit a little bit goes a long way  
if everybody tries to do just a little bit and a little bit more then   we'll get there  
well   thank you for talking to me  
sure  
no problem  
all right  
bye bye  
well i think we need to do more  
i mean i know i need to do more  
they have programs around where you can reach the uh  
they come and pick up your newspapers if you have them bundled up  
but i have a hard time of being able of separating you know having a place separating my trash  
and get all the   cans from the paper  
and you know i just haven't gotten that dedicated yet  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i don't i don't get the paper every day  
but you know i get it on  
i try to buy you know the early edition for the coupons you know the sunday edition  
so  
but then i just you know bundle it up and put it on the front you know the front walk   you know every monday or every other monday and have them pick that up  
but that's the extent of what i've done  
i'd like to be able to do more  
the problem is with a lot of it is you have to go you know it takes a while to drive to these places where you recycle it you know  
it's not always convenient to do it  
yeah  
i'm not exactly sure where the you know the can thing is  
but you know sometimes it's just so  
seems so much easier just to take it and throw it in the trash and have   them pick it up than it is to [smash] the cans and drive it some place to have them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do those can crushers work good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because those things i think would just snap   you know  
oh  
i'd have to check into something like that because i mean we don't drink a whole lot of soda around here you know  
but um   you know occasionally we have some around  
but you know for other kind of cans just to it'd probably only take aluminum cans like that don't they  
yeah  
so i don't know  
i don't think you have to crush the other ones for them to get to take that  
but   i need to look into it more  
you know it's you know it  
sometimes even with the newspaper they say they'll only take certain types of paper you know  
they won't take   paper that's shiny  
yeah  
so does my husband  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know what  
you know i haven't  
i'm sure they're probably doing that here some  
uh_huh  
i think it's necessary  
i i like it  
you know it makes  
i think it's good that you see these you know like boxes cereal  
they're now starting to make them you know the packages out of recycled paper  
and   and i've bought you know i've bought [greeting] cards that are made out of recycled paper  
and i think they're just fine  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we're getting becoming more conscious because we just can't stick everything in landfills any more  
so  
no  
no  
the office  
yeah  
it's probably sitting out on the barge somewhere  
yeah  
girls put that away  
now  
yeah  
i just wish it was a little more convenient   to do  
you know seems like you're so busy anyway  
and then that's just one more thing to have to worry about  
so  
i think if you know the cities locally you know they'd get more programs going so that you could do that it'd make it a lot easier  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
get the kids   interested in it too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
who does  
you know   people don't have room for that kind of stuff  
no  
and in texas they're just get things like that  
they just get bugs in them  
so  
so you don't  
that's right  
so  
i'm pretty lazy about it right now  
everything goes into one thing and goes out to the  
you know pick it up  
so  
uh_huh  
well i need to get get better at it  
so  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
that's true  
that's right  
huh  
well thank you for calling  
i  
okay  
take care  
bye bye  
now  
i'm sorry  
excuse me and uh i do that  
we recycle uh newspapers  
we take you know the dallas morning news daily   and the plano paper daily  
and you know after a month of that you got a ton   of newspapers  
it really does  
i do recycle   newspapers and uh glass  
we don't really have enough plastic to mess with  
we don't you know like we don't drink milk  
and we don't have children  
so we don't have you know six thousand plastic milk jugs   a month you know  
yeah  
right  
but there is you know there is a place you can take those also you know at the same place just put them in a different uh container  
and uh plano has plans  
i believe it's [tentatively] scheduled for sometime in may of this year  
the city is going to leave uh receptacles at people's home  
and they  
it   certainly would  
and they can separate it  
and then the you know trash guys will pick it up   which would really be handy you know for people like shut ins or   people who can't or don't drive you know  
they can't get to the these centers  
and i'm sure rather than try to uh ask someone to take them for them they probably just pitch them you know  
but i think that's probably a good idea  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
great  
i bet it was  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's just a matter of education i think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
i think basically it's a good idea you know  
i hope it works  
absolutely  
absolutely  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
absolutely  
and there's just you know the two of us my wife and i  
and it's amazing how much stuff just the two of us generate  
you know i can imagine a family of you know four or five  
it really does  
as far as new stuff to recycle you know i don't really i don't really know  
i really hadn't thought about it to tell you the truth  
that's right  
i was  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i see  
oh i'm sure it must  
yes  
you know i'm not personally involved because i don't you know i don't have any children that wear diapers  
but i'm sure it creates a large amount of you know   uh refuse  
that's right  
that's right  
absolutely  
that's right  
absolutely  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
i think they're made out of aluminum  
yes  
there are there is a [receptacle] you know at the centers also for aluminum  
but again we don't we don't generate that much  
so  
we don't  
yeah  
that's right  
that  
ninety nine percent of ours is newspaper and uh you know uh glass  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
car batteries  
uh_huh  
i don't you know i don't change my own oil  
so i don't i don't uh don't have that problem  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we do to as a matter of fact  
right  
yeah  
yes  
we have one of those in town  
uh_huh  
you know our church each year has a  
one of their major fund [raisers] is you know a garage sale  
and there's a ton of clothes always you know left over  
and i take those down to the  
uh it's called the clothes closet  
that's what it's called here in plano  
right  
uh_huh  
and they distribute them to the people   that need them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
i can't either  
i really can't  
um no  
i i really can't either  
okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
all right  
bye bye  
ready to go  
okay  
right  
oh  
i know it builds up really fast  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we do  
with two a two year old and a   three year old  
and   so it really builds up with us  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that would be much more convenient  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
or it just builds up so often  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they used to have several places um that were a little ways out in the community that did the paper and all  
and they stopped doing it because they said it wasn't profitable  
so finally um they the people put so much pressure on the city  
they did a survey of everybody  
and they took a big huge bin that has paper and plastic um   and put it in front of the wal mart store in town  
and they it just really  
every time you went by there it was just over flowing  
and so wal mart complained  
so they moved it behind the store  
and nobody knew where it was  
and so people kept piling stuff in the same place   where it used to be  
oh it was just like a dump there  
and so finally you know i called  
and they said you know it was behind there  
and i started taking my things behind there  
so we do that with because we have milk cartons you know constantly   with two little kids   and the paper  
but it just builds up  
it would be so nice if they had it you know at your home   where you could just turn it in so they they final had enough of a response that they decided to try a small target area   in one neighborhood  
and they have pickup there  
it's uh i think once or twice a week  
and the first couple weeks they did it nobody got their stuff out  
so they had not much participation  
and they were going to cancel it  
but then finally people started getting the message  
yeah  
and i think that you know if they can get enough going   they'll continue it you know throughout the rest of the city  
but it's not  
i think originally people thought it would be profitable for cities to do this  
and it's not going to be  
i don't think  
yeah  
yeah  
i do to because it's amazing how much you know trash   we can generate  
i know this year we took our christmas tree  
they had a place   in the park where you could go have your tree shredded  
and they gave you a little um [seedling] to plant   you know  
you could take the the mulch home with you you know and take buckets of that home  
so that was really good idea  
i thought  
yeah  
oh yeah  
it's really  
it adds up so fast  
yeah  
yeah  
well they're working on diapers   which would be great  
i've read so many different things about diapers  
and now their saying that originally they thought the disposables were just awful  
but now their saying that they're really not that much in comparison to the others because you don't have to use the water to wash them   and you know all different kinds of things too  
so the diaper service trucks  
apparently the fuel that they use and the fumes that they produce to deliver   and drop those off  
so i don't know what's the you know right thing to do  
but i really would hope that they would come up  
i know there was a brand just briefly on the market that was recyclable  
but the landfill have to do something special you know for those  
but that just generates a tremendous of volume of trash too  
so  
yeah  
it does  
and you just feel guilty if you don't do   something with them you know  
because you hate to contribute to the problem  
but on the on the other hand the alternatives aren't to great either  
yeah  
i don't know what else they could recycle more of  
i guess we don't really use that many tin cans  
i guess there's some places where you can recycle aluminum  
but i don't know about like cans that you keep vegetables and stuff   in  
i don't know if those are recyclable  
or  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
we don't either  
we usually use frozen vegetables and things  
so we don't really have   much of that  
yeah  
well now when we lived out in california they actually had places where you could recycle if you change the oil in your car   or for aerosol cans and things   like that because they say it's not safe to put those things   in the regular trash  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well other than that i'm not really sure  
we we try to recycle old clothes  
our church has a place   where you can take them  
and they you know pass them on to   other families  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
kind of like a [goodwill]  
kind of place  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's real helpful   too  
well i'm not sure i can't really think of anything else that we could recycle  
yeah  
okay  
you to  
take   care  
bye bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hm  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that's a good idea  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
um i know  
we um we we are kind of getting into recycling now  
i'm in college  
and i live in a dorm  
and we recycle paper  
and i know that there's a glass plant up here  
and they recycle glass  
and you know we recycle old aluminum cans and all that kind of stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then when our dorm  
whenever our bins are all filled up we take them and turn them in  
and then we get money for that  
yeah  
we just put you know we just keep it with the dorm  
well we buy things for the dorm whatever the dorm needs you know  
like we have access to a microwave and an oven if we want to cook things  
and then we buy like cooking equipment and stuff  
or we play games like board games  
we buy board games  
you know it's just different things whatever you know  
we vote on it  
and whatever the dorm would want that's what we buy  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh that'd be  
is that what this target is  
what you're  
no  
huh_uh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
i would like  
let's start up a target  
no  
um i don't really know any other recycling that they do  
no  
no  
huh_uh  
we have to take it to a recycling place  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh i didn't know that  
um i never heard of that  
um not that i know of  
no  
oh my gosh  
um  
yeah  
uh we have places where we go  
and we what we do is we unload our cans  
it's like a conveyor belt  
and the belt separates the aluminum ones from the steel ones because it has a [magnet] on it  
and then they weigh uh your aluminum cans  
and then you get money for your aluminum cans  
no  
but now they're going to start giving us money for the other ones too  
before they didn't  
but i know they're going to start now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's all i really know about recycling  
oh really  
we have kroger but not a skaggs  
oh  
uh  
you guys are getting into it more than we are  
uh_huh  
huh_uh  
i've never seen any you know places that do  
i know um we reuse our grocery bags now  
we take them back you know and use the ones that we have  
you can like  
if you have grocery bags you can take them and use them instead of getting new ones  
yeah  
yeah  
but we don't have any place that collects the grocery bags  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my  
uh  
i'm a finance major  
oh really  
uh_huh  
what do you think the outcome will be  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
we've had one as long as i can remember  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um i can't think of anything on recycling  
no  
what do we think about them  
oh i don't know  
no  
i never really thought about it  
what you think about [pennsylvanians]  
oh really  
i don't know  
i really don't know anyone from texas or anything  
i've never been there um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh well  
oh  
oh  
oh is it like a foreign exchange type student  
well i just got back from taking my little girl to her brownie meeting  
and then we had this whole can uh a bag filled full of cans  
and they've been recycling at their school  
well she wanted me to just wait and let her dump them off tomorrow  
but they were filled with beer cans  
and i hated to take a big old sack i mean one time i mean like a lawn bag   full of them  
like i  
no  
we'll just taking them up there and put them in the bins anyway  
they had tickets at their school that they recycle either newspapers or cans  
and i think that's all  
okay  
and they're taking the money that they earn to plant trees  
yeah  
and they've got their bins that stay there  
and they've decorated real cute you know with a bunch of big old flowers   and stuff  
so they're getting into it  
i don't know what they get for the tickets though  
what do you get for the tickets if you bring stuff  
oh the class that gets the most tickets gets a party  
it's not bad yeah  
uh_huh  
so in each of the dorms you have a place for that  
that's really good  
for the dorm  
and who decides what you do with it  
and what do they do with it  
uh_huh  
well i graduated from college in nineteen seventy two  
and we were just um not aware that this was a problem that we ever would need to recycle  
of course you just threw it away  
so a little different  
and i wanted to do this thing that you can get through target to recycle  
i had my school do it  
but my principal said since we're doing this thing called operation desert shield we're sending letters to all these servicemen and making video tapes and all that  
the whole school you know  
it was just this big project  
she didn't want to get into that  
and i could do it in the center  
and i just never got around to it  
but it's like a club  
you know about that  
a little boy that had died of leukemia i think  
and he had started this um save the environment club  
and his mother is carrying this on  
and you can get the information to set it up you know   and join  
you don't have to join it as a group or anything i don't guess  
but you could start your own anyway  
get a pamphlet  
do you all have target stores up there  
no  
that's a department store  
kind of like k mart   except it's a little better than what k mart sells i think  
so you're not you're not having it picked up   at your houses or anything  
huh  
now in some of the towns around us they're already picking up the newspapers  
well they're doing that here too now that i think about it once every so many weeks  
and you have to pull out all the [slicks]  
and you have to wrap them up with string  
and i think that's all they're picking up  
but you know like in minnesota they've got their bins where you put plastics and your bottles  
yeah  
because my brother in law lives in minnesota  
and they're are just nice plastic bins  
and you fill them up and put them out with your other trash  
and they pick them up  
do you all have can banks  
no  
i  
a big old bin  
and you just feed your cans slowly into the slot  
and your money comes out you know every once in a while for however much [poundage] you've got  
and if you keep feeding it until the light goes off   and you get instant cash  
but they had one that i was putting my stuff in  
and i went to take some today  
and it was gone  
i don't know  
but i located another one today on the way to work  
but they don't give you for the other  
uh_huh  
well they're certain places you know where down there you can take your leaded cans  
but i don't know where they are  
they publish it in the newspaper if you wanted to get into it  
i don't know  
i'm trying  
but   i just can't recycle everything  
i'm not that dedicated  
but  
me too  
if they would  
oh i know we're saving our grocery bags now  
yeah  
they're taking those up  
you can take them to the stores  
um like [kroger's] doing it  
and i think skaggs  
do you have those up there  
and we  
they're taking our milk cartons and our plastic coke bottles there too  
so  
that's pretty good isn't it  
it sounds like it  
you'd think you would be  
you mean where you sack your own groceries  
huh  
and i don't want to go with those canvas bags right now i'm sorry  
i'm not that european  
but you know they do that like  
i went to europe nineteen seventy three  
and you know they go all the time  
it's like they would go almost every day to the store  
and they had their little bags   way back then and fill it up  
and they had this little bitty old teeny refrigerators  
that's why  
they couldn't put anything in it hardly  
but  
well what are you going to do when you get out of college  
well that's why i did what i did  
i went into teaching  
here in texas it's a real mess right now  
oh definitely  
there's no  
let's see  
we've had the funding  
we've run out of money  
we've frozen the money  
right  
and they had until the fifteenth of april to come up some formula that would be more equitable to different districts according to finances because the poor districts were getting less money so not as good an education  
right  
and now they're trying to take some money away from the richer districts like the one that i'm in in dallas and make us pay our money to the smaller ones and make it more equitable  
and if they can't come up with something by the fifteenth then the state's supposed to decide the courts  
i think they're maybe going to give us a state income tax  
do you have one  
i'm not looking forward to it  
but something's got to be done  
well it's going to hit us  
and i don't know  

doesn't seem like it work to take it away when we're using it  
but maybe  
i know we're not using it so [wisely]  
we have too many administrators   in some of these big districts  
but other than that well can you think of anything else we need to talk about  
me either  
anything else  
what about people from um pennsylvania  
what do they think about texans  
uh_huh  
have you thought about that  
probably a lot more civilized more um refined than a lot of the people would be down here  
i would hope so  
i mean you've been together a little bit longer than we have  
no  
well i've never  
well let's see  
i think i have too been to pennsylvania  
gettysburg  
yeah  
we went up there now that i think about it on one of our long trips   we take off on  
[shboom]  
what are you saying holly  
oh my little girl is in the second grade told me to tell you that [shboom] means good bye in the israeli language  
is what you say it is holly in israel in israel  
see she's got this little girl from israel in her classroom that she's [befriended]  
so she's into this  
huh_uh  
you know we've had a lot of the jewish people  
and she's expecting the end of this month  
and she's the only one that lives near by  
so the rest live in  
one lives in connecticut  
and couple lives in pittsburg  
and one lives near d c  
so uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we see them once in a while a couple of times a year at least  
and the ones in pittsburg of course we see more often  
so uh  
all right  
i'm ready to go  
well they've been trying different things  
one one of the biggest problems seems to be we don't they don't have anyplace to put some of the things that need recycled  
right now we've recycled glass for years because we have a glass industry in our community  
owens  
owens um  
so glass has been recycled for a long time  
uh we have a cycling area set up here at our house  
the boy scouts have and they've done that for years  
uh the stores are recycling their plastic bags now  
you can take them back in  
and they have bins to collect those   uh the aluminum cans  
they try to do the uh newspapers  
and uh they had to close their area down because they couldn't sell it  
they were  
what they were doing was [shredding] it and trying to sell it to farmers for bedding for their animals   and that type of thing  
and that didn't work  
but but somebody told me that they were charging as much for it as they did for straw   which is why they couldn't sell it  
you know because the farmers would buy the straw if it's a you know similar price  
and let's see  
is there anything else  
okay  
i think by this fall it's going to be required that the town of clarion which we'll live nearby will have mandatory recycling started  
so  
uh mainly the glass the aluminum the plastics  
uh  
well we're working hard on it because we're fighting also in our area a large hazardous waste incinerator   which we do not want built  
and uh we would like industry to do more before they build these big huge [incinerators]  
and uh we we just feel they should they should offer industry some incentives to do more reducing of their waste products and [reusing]  
them  
because some of those companies that are doing it have save money eventually  
at first apparently it costs more to get started  
but once they get established then it's a money saving thing  
and what is t i  
oh okay  
gee  
my my son works for  
no  
not for that  
okay  
excuse me go ahead  
well my son works in uh for the federal government  
he's he works in a computer laboratory  
and uh it was through him that that uh  
uh maybe you could tell me what is the difference between office paper waste and just like newspapers  
um  
oh really  
um  
um  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it would be inconvenient to in other words to  
right  
more areas where they would pick it up  
yeah  
yeah  
um uh_huh  
oh well knox is just over the hill here  
yes uh_huh  
they   they no longer are you know active  
yeah  
oh for heaven's sake  
yeah  
oh for heaven's sake  
well we only live probably about fifteen twenty miles from knox  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'll be darn  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think people are getting more interested  
and they are more concerned  
and we're just we're just real concerned about this incinerator because we really they want to put it right in uh in between two of our main water sheds that feed the clarion river  
and uh we we just we just don't want it anyplace  
we feel that we that they should give businesses more incentives to do more recycling and more reduction and and more reuse and all those things that could be done  
we we just don't think we don't think some of the politicians are really interested in our best interests  
and uh it's it's been a real struggle and a hardship for a lot of people in our area that we've have you know have been fighting against this thing in trying to have things changed   to make them more more right  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh well   we're we're going to pay for that that whether we pay industry or   pay  
we we've already paid industry for like these super fund that's cleaning up  
we paid industry for it  
we pay all help to pay to have them haul it away from their place  
and where they put it now they found it's not a safe place  
it's leaked  
and now they have to clean those up  
and it's our money that's cleaning this   stuff up  
and now they want to put it in  
they burn it  
and that will make another hazardous dump  
and eventually they'll have to do something with that  
we'll pay for it again  
so why not pay industry  
this is my feeling  
why not pay industry a little more   and reduce it you know and and not have as much of it   oh  
definitely  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
no  
but they think and probably they're right people buy it easier  
yeah  
yeah  
and i know people would be willing to do more like saving their newspapers and that if they had a place to take them  
we don't have anyplace right now that will take them  
uh_huh  
probably  
yeah  
oh well that will be nice though  
but still sort of up in that general   area of the country  
so you can probably see them sometimes  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
well uh what kind of recycling do you have in your area  
uh_huh  
oh what  
which one is that  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
sure  
on just particular things  
or  
uh_huh  
well it sounds like they're doing quite a bit  
uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
well our company does some things all of which i couldn't even tell you about  
i don't know all of them  
but  
uh texas instruments  
yeah  
well i i was just curious as how you got hooked up with this this speech type of thing  
oh  
and he  
yeah  
well here at work um each one of us has two trash baskets in our office  
and one of those is designed for any kind of paper products that um they want to use you know for recycling  
they can't deal with every type  
well i guess i don't know specifically except that uh for the paper that they want to recycle they do not want any newspaper um and things like candy [wrappers] or uh that type of thing  
let's see  
i have a list here  
um they don't want lunch sacks or brown envelopes uh phone books  
so there are you know a lot of kinds of things that they don't want but then any kind of computer paper letters uh booklets  
they'll even take things that are bound  
um and it doesn't all have to be like white  
they'll take colored [folders]  
and and uh even some of those can have plastic tabs on them  
so it's it's hard to kind of figure out you know which things are the right ones  
i mean i i'll frequently have to look at the list   if it's something that i don't throw away all the time  
but um they do that  
and then we use uh different chemicals and things  
and i know that about how they take care of that sort   of thing  
i i don't know all the details  
but they're really on top of that  
and there probably some other things that i don't about because we're a real large company  
and i just don't have contact with them  
but in our uh city  
well i live in a suburb of dallas  
and they have initiated a newspaper recycling   whereby they pick it up from your alley uh one day a week   and all you have to do is bundle it  
uh all around dallas there are a lot of recycling centers where you can take things sometimes for money   um but most of those are real far away from like where i live at any rate  
very inconvenient  
and um it's just you know hasn't been very practical to get into a lot of those things  
if they would make it something where they you know would pick it up at the curb or at least make it you know down the street and at the corner   type of thing uh  
yeah  
that wouldn't be so bad  
um our grocery store like yours will take the uh plastic bags  
and they'll also take the the paper bags back  
but um uh you mentioned the uh glass type of stuff  
the reason i ask you about that is years ago and it it changed names somewhere along the line but um my dad used to work for knox glass in   knox pennsylvania  
oh really  
yeah  
it's  
yeah  
they were taken over by glass containers years ago  
and but he worked for them for like thirty one years  
and he used to travel up there to knox quite a bit  
and and i even did once when i was a child  
you know so  
oh really  
yeah  
we  
i was looking through our photo album not long ago  
and they had   had some pictures and things in there of knox  
but uh i guess that's about it you know as far as what goes on that i know about  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
that's  
uh_huh  
well i think probably more people you know would participate if they just made it a little easier  
and like you say make it um better for companies to do these things   and get involved in it without huge cost to them  
because obviously   no one wants to spend a lot of money   just to deal with trash you know  
yeah  
that's true  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's true  
uh_huh  
also probably look at packaging and   that sort of thing  
we don't we don't need three quarters of   what we get  
i uh  
that's their marketing  
well  
yeah  
i i'm  
guess our city you know in picking them up must take them somewhere else   and get something for them  
but i don't that it's a big money  
so jan how do they recycle in texas  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
is it   is it all voluntary  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
there's   a lot of projects where the the boy scouts and things and that will   collect your cans  
and   it's a good fund raiser for the kids  
uh_huh  
i guess i  
you see i guess it depends on your landfill space  
i know i  
we're in maryland  
but my  
i from pennsylvania  
and my parents how are forced recycling  
uh  
yeah  
all plastic they all plastic has to go into a recycling bin all cans have to be recycled all newspapers has to be recycled   because they're um they're just running out of space and landfills  
uh pennsylvania ohio and new york are some of the uh  
they're using their landfills up faster than they can get new ones  
so it's really uh it's uh really hard on them  
now up here in maryland though we're just in a voluntary recycling stage right now  
so uh so my wife and i you know we save our bottles  
and we save our newspapers  
and we save all our plastic and all of our tin cans  
and just like you say we go to uh a community area where they have it set up  
and we dump them off there  
yeah  
it's still voluntary   though i think i think we're supposed to have something implemented by nineteen ninety three though   where some aspects will be mandatory  
uh_huh  
mostly just the cans  
and i  
and most of the time like i said that's that's a sort of like fund raiser things that   the schools do or that the boy scouts do or whatever  
yeah  
cans are the only thing i think you really get money for  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's mostly  
well you know we  
even before  
as soon as the community said you know we're going to put up bins for recycling you know we automatically started   doing it  
it was   it's one of those things  
you know and just going and taking the time to go and read the signs and the brochures on what they accept and how it should be   separated you know  
that's  
no  
huh_uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
how much how well they're doing  
we do  
i um i i work in a uh speech interface lab   at a at a at a college  
and we do basically the same thing  
the state of maryland has lost asked all the colleges and universities and some of the large organizations you know if they would definitely recycle their office paper  
and   the same thing you know every almost every college in maryland is recycling office paper  
but you know in the giant bins around  
and it's surprising how much   you never realize because that janitor comes around and [empties] your garbage   can every night  
you don't notice until   you start leaving  
you know they don't pick up your recycling until it's full  
and   you just can't believe how much paper that you uh  
[reams] of paper come   out of an office every day that   took us to recycle  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
so i think   hopefully if  
you know i guess a lot of the large organizations probably t i did they advertise on television how successful they are  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
internal  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that would probably   be true  
yeah  
because i know that some of the large industries here will advertise on television  
you know they'll come up and say  
you know they'll show you to encourage to encourage recycling  
they'll   say  
and here those of us that [dumavra] power which is our power company   that  
we now recycle forty five percent of our solid waste  
and they  
and that  
we do this for the community  
they put those on  
so i so i think you know we're probably reaching a successful stage and and just with voluntary   i think  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i think so too  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
we weren't   concerned  
yeah  
that's true  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i think really probably what hit peoples you know i know that here in the up in the uh uh the the new [englands] area and also in in pennsylvania ohio and new york the just run all of a sudden we're out of landfill  
and and they're saying we estimate this landfill be will be full in two years unless we cut back  
and   even then you know we're really running out of space  
so i think that that became  
that all of a sudden really hit home that there's no longer landfill space   in some of the more crowded states  
so what  
you know and no other state  
i'm sure texas probably still has some landfill space  
they're not going to voluntarily say hey ship your garbage here  
so you know   realistically you know we had we really had to start we have to start recycling in some some uh geographic areas  
it's really   tough  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
but well  
well in some ways i guess it it doesn't become really cost saving until you have an industry around it you know because   i know that like in   pennsylvania they require them to um put their newspaper for recycling  
but the de [inking] process that they have to they use   to take the ink out of the newspaper so it can be reused   um is very expensive  
and also it it produces a a waste a um a   liquid waste that they don't know what to do with yet  
so   even some aspects of recycling   they still have cost   yeah cost efficient yet  
yeah  
so   but others you know like tin cans and plastics   are are really uh efficient you know  
they   they melt on quickly and can be you know just because of the   heating and things getting glass  
yeah  
so  
it really is surprising that people haven't noticed it before  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i don't know either  
that's  
i know that though i all those petroleum products though are so terrible for your um the water table  
you know they really pollute quickly  
and you know one  
i was reading some place the brake fluid you put brake fluid normally comes in just small little pint containers   that one pint of brake fluid can [contaminate] so many gallons of water   you know like hundreds of gallons of water  
so it's one of those things that they really  
um and you wonder you know with all these oil spills   how how terrible that is  
yeah  
how terrible that is  
so we'll have to we'll have to keep our eyes on all that i guess  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i   agree  
uh_huh  
i do too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it   well you know if they're forced to do it it becomes sort of a habit  
you know i know that it's really funny  
my parents are forced to do it  
and they  
well i  
the biggest uh way it's going right now uh lot most of the grocery stores   have got uh things set up where you can bring in your uh plastic and your cans and newspapers  
and then they've just got different barrels setting out  
i shouldn't say barrels like big john doors or   whatever they're   called [gondolas]  
um they've got them set outside  
and  
uh  
yes  
it's all voluntary  
now they do have some places where you can take things and get cash  
but   i think the lot of people don't really want the cash  
you know they just want to uh help recycle which is   what we do you know  
we  
probably the only thing sometimes we'll take cash or the cans in  
and we let the kids get the money for that  
but uh  

right  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
but but that's really the the biggest thing around here is the grocery stores participating  
you know but  
uh_huh  
oh   really  
oh wow  
yeah  
so it's  
you say it is all voluntary  
do they  
will it be mandatory  
is it all um  
is there any place at all where you do get cash for this stuff  
or is it all  
okay  
yeah  
and that's  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
that's  
well they do have places around here where you can get money for your newspapers   and stuff like that  
but you know i think a lot of people like i said are more concerned   with you know right now you know the aspects of saving the earth  
um   uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well i tell you it's kind of funny now at even at t i i don't  
do you work for t i  
okay  
um at t i they're doing recycling  
i mean for a long time they didn't do this  
but now they're they're recycling cans and paper  
we have separate bins   uh separate [wastebaskets] in our offices   for paper  
you know and they  
i mean it's tremendous how much money they have saved and even saving all these trees  
and you know   it's really  
i can't believe that   you know because they've got it all posted all over the place how much   they're saving and how  
yeah  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yep  
so   you don't think about it  
right  
i know  
yep   yeah  
well you think about   the waste even  
i mean you know cost wise and   and you know like you saving trees and stuff like that  
i mean it's just amazing you know   the difference  

i haven't seen   anything  
uh but that doesn't mean that they don't  
i don't watch much t v  
but i haven't really seen anything advertise [publicly]  
and then like i said they do a lot of internal   advertising on that kind of stuff  
but i haven't seen anything  
but see i don't see a lot of t i advertisements on t v anyway  
i think they advertise more um other places where they're not located  
you know so   so i don't see a lot of advertisements for t i  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well even i mean in the kid's schools   i mean they do things to try and recycle  
and i know my kids um like if they see litter on the ground they pick it up and say oh look at that somebody is not saving the earth you know  
so i mean the kids i mean they really try to educate all ages you know  
and it's good to start the kids real young on   stuff like that   because i mean when i was a kid they never did stuff like that  
i mean it's like nobody was concerned about it  
you know and it's like  
you know it's like all of a sudden when there's noticeable things saying hey you know   we're ruining the earth  
you know and now everybody is doing something about which is good  
but how come we weren't doing this say twenty years ago   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well   yeah  
this is  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
i think   that it it really surprises me because of the cost savings  
i mean this is such a tremendous   amount of cost savings  
i mean why  
i can't understand why nobody saw that before  
i mean even even not   even the aspects of not saving the earth  
i   mean it's   so cost you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh   i see  
okay  
is not   real cost efficient  
oh okay  
okay oh  
i   understand that though  
uh_huh  
right  
and glass  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
and even  
i i noticed that a lot of gas stations are telling you to recycle your oil  
and i mean that kind of surprises me  
i mean you know because once oil gets so you know thick and yucky you'd wonder how they could you know clean that up   enough to use it again  
but they can  
um i don't know how cost efficient that would be i guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
really  
i know i really  
i don't know  
i i think that i mean i think that they really are doing a good thing now  
and i hope it keeps  
well i'm sure we'll keep up  
you know  
i think it's really catching on  
you know i i think that  
i'm not sure if it  
i don't know  
i think it's a good idea to make it mandatory  
um it  
because like we were asking some people that live in um north dakota well are you saving your you know are you recycling  
and they said well we're not forced to do it yet  
so no  
you know so i mean i don't know  
i think that if people are forced if the people are not forced to do it they may not you   know  
i mean i don't know  
i think a lot of people still will  
but   right  
start  
um  
well right now they've got a kind of a central location off of the main highway  
and they've got some great big bins there for newspaper um plastic um i think three bins for glass white green and whatever other combination there is  
and and i think they've got a uh some kind of container for aluminum  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
um  
well that's good  
well rowlett had sent sent out a survey not too long ago um in terms in how many people were interested in having a a pick up i guess on the days they do trash or something like that  
and apparently a lot of people [responded] to it [favorably] because they're going to do it  
i don't know how how soon they're going to do it or how organized it's going to be  
but they're they're supposed to initiate that sometime in the next couple of months  
um i've never noticed that  
we don't have a a whole lot because we're in a hospital setting  
so most of the things we have are through our cafeteria um  
um no  
there's there's only one pop machine  
and it's not accessible to the cafeteria now  
so uh mainly what they serve in there is juice and coffee and tea  
no  
not not really  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's good  
yeah  
i i guess [rowlett's] done a lot for the size town it is  
and i think they're trying to to make some changes  
i i noticed at the library or someplace this past uh month month and a half ago they were having a speaker um talk about doing lawn work and how important it is to to cut your lawn without a bag just to kind of mulch it   rather than bag it up because of all the the grass that's being bagged and being hauled away by the garbage trucks and stuff  
and it's uh i guess a lot more [ecological] to just mow the grass and let it work it's way back into the soil  
i saw part of that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
well there are a lot of things that aren't  
i'm  
that's uh one of the things i wonder about  
uh one of the questions was do you think more should be done or something else  
i i wonder about some of the products that they don't take like some of the plastics and things that they don't take uh why why they couldn't do more recycling with those  
um  
yeah  
true  
yeah  
i noticed that about things like  
i i seen a lot of adds recently for organic [fertilizers] and and lawn [additives] and that type of thing  
but the cost is is like double or sometimes triple   what the regular things you [fertilizers] and things you buy  
so in in terms of that  
it's  
you know and for the environment it's it's there's a good reason to do it  
but the cost is kind of prohibitive  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's a good idea  
uh_huh  
yeah  
true  
um  
yeah  
i i'd heard something stranger  
talk about bottles the other day on uh on the radio station i think it's k l t y they were talking about the  
i think it's in canada they're using oh recyclable milk jugs plastic milk jugs   as a a reinforcement for roads   for road repairs  
and apparently they they don't break down very easily  
and   they don't expand or or contract when the weather changes  
and this is kind of an unusual use for that type of thing  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think the the more people are aware of it the the more they'll do  
i think that's just the biggest problem is keeping it in in front of the public so they understand how serious the problem is and how important it is to do that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
true  
uh_huh  
what kind of recycling programs do you have in rowlett  
plano's doing real good on that  
they have uh they start off putting out great big huge garbage cans   which we're supposed to put all our week's garbage into it  
and of course it doesn't fit right now  
but now we start in may breaking it down  
and they're picking it all up  
so they're going to by  
and we have to separate our papers and our glass  
and then uh they have one day for like um oh everything you picked up from your yard  
and we put that in disposable bags  
and they pick that up on monday  
so it's really great  
i i'm really going head you know completely for it  
i think it's marvelous  
well does your uh  
where you work do they also have aluminum cans pickups and things like that  
well down in the cafeteria do they have any place where you can put your you know pop cans and things like that  
so you don't have much choice there  
well i work at uh j c penny  
and last week they brought  
they have a sign up that says for one full week   you bring in your old wire [hangers]  
and they're going to recycle them  
so it's getting people clean out their closets and such  
and then like the week before that they said go through your [cupboards] and any food that is still good bring it in  
and they brought it down to the shelters  
and they have one two they have three i think that i know of   for cans for people have pop  
and they put them right near where they have the time cards  
and it works great  
and they have one in the room where the snack machines are too  
so they're really going at it  
and i think it's marvelous because  
well  
uh_huh  
well did you watch the program the other night on um was it save america  
it was good  
the only thing i thought um that i haven't been trying is when i you know go to take a shower to save the water   and to put it on my plants which i had never thought about before  
but i've already gone to  
oh i started years ago i guess not years ago  
but yeah  
i would say five years ago turning off my [fountain] i mean my water [faucet]   in the sink when i brush my teeth  
but i didn't realize that was the biggest waste of water  
that was surprising to me  
i missed that question totally i mean really bad  
i'm trying to think  
i didn't miss too many  
i can't remember what my score was  
but i did [exceeding] well  
i was surprised  
but i didn't realize that our garbage isn't being [decomposed]  
that was a [shocker] to me  
well i was in uh [bizmart] the other day  
and what i don't understand is there is recycled paper in there  
and it cost more than regular paper  
and it was only i think uh forty cents more you know fifty cents more  
but   it upset me to realize that hey the recycling that they're going through the expense of recycling  
but people aren't buying it  
so the cost of it is higher  
uh_huh  
now see that's recycling you know  
companies that do at least go into it  
i'd like to see subsidy by the government or something or tax wise or something heavily enough to where they could get their prices lower than regular  
so that people would use this stuff over again  
it's like when he was saying uh which one was recyclable which was reusable  
and the recycle ones are better to use  
but lots of times you don't even see the signs on the bottles  
and if we're going to really do something they ought to put that stuff out bigger for people to see it  
i had to put my [bifocals] on to see it  
that's hard when you're in a grocery store and you're short anyway  
you have to get enough nerve to ask somebody to take something off the top shelf  
you haven't got enough nerve to say well put it back  
it's not recyclable  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh  
you know they're  
along that same line they said they were using um  
what is oh i know  
it was toilets you know the old ones   [smashing] them up because they're that stuff there is great for in road work  
and i thought well that's good  
and then i saw recycling on tires between uh  
well hoses were being used   and uh uh [soaker] hoses made out of old tires  
what else  
something else was made out of old tires  
i was trying to remember what it was oh i can't think of it now  
but i was i was trying to get my uh kids you know to see different things that we could come up with for recycling purposes  
and just anything to you know recycle rather than keep throwing it away  
but my biggest problem is i take the bags out of the store buy the bags to bring the back  
and then i forget to bring them in the store  
i'm forever going back out to my car to pick up my bags to bring them and take my garbage back out  
i wish they'd really push this recycling bit because i never realized i really didn't realize how much stuff i actually throw away  
you know what i'd like to see a little more  
i don't have any little tiny kids  
but if they get the little tiny kids saving it now   in five years when they get bigger it'll work a little bit more too  
because it's  
we've all got to do it right now  
i just  
i really amazed to find out that what is it eighty per cent are filled now in in garbage fills  
in five years we're supposed to be at max  
i don't think i can keep my own garbage  
i mean i might not have that much  
but i wouldn't  
all right  
uh how long have they been recycling there in virginia  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hello  
yeah  
okay  
you're okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
have you have you [cycled] recycled plastic also  
we we have out here   uh up until just this last year in on you are town there wasn't any really good way  
they had some [bends]   around that we could find and put them in  
but not all that many  
it wasn't very well advertised  
but recently uh the refuse department has has uh is working on getting a system going where we will actually have uh a bend that we put things in for recycling these other things  
so it it should be good uh  
i think it's a marvelous idea when you think of uh when i just think of the papers that i dump out  
i mean there just  
it's such a  
i waste  
i just hate to think about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
that's neat  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
i guess one of the things i think that needs to happen is we need to be better informed about   about it  
there's needs to be more public uh   service of programs or something that would let us know had a happens to it   and helps us to become enthused about it because of what is happening  
and there's  
i've seen a few things but not very much   really  
and i i think that's a shame  
they need to uh do a little more  
i'd like to know for instance when i when they say uh plastic all plastic what kind of plastic   can you put all together or   is there some reason not to  
uh now maybe they just sort it after they get it and throw out what they can't use  
i don't know  
but i i'd be glad to organize it   if that they'd tell me what it is i'm doing   because that would that would be really helpful  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's great  
now that gives   you a little bit of incentive there  
uh_huh  
saving them for you uh  
uh_huh  
i think that's   right  
i think i think helping us be more enthusiastic about it   helping us maybe maybe using the money for something special that would be like paying off the national debt  
making sure  
but i i think that's  
right i think they there needs to be a little bit more in the area of of uh advertisement   and letting public letting you understand   more of what it is you're doing why you're doing it how you're it's done and   what what happens to it because i think that's that would help a lot  
yeah  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
yes  
i i'm glad   to see some of these things i think  
people are becoming more conscience all the time that it's necessary to do   and that we need to somehow get away from the fact that we have to have everything individually wrapped  
and all these things that  
i think that's true  
well i think  
i'm that's about my uh   some on recycling  
but i i enjoyed talking to you  
uh_huh  
all right  
bye now  
um actually quite a a a while  
um i've lived here for six years  
and can you hold on just a second  
hello  
oh i'm sorry  
i must have got the other line cut off  
uh so they've been doing that it for a while now  
and uh it  
i live in an apartment  
and my facilities  
there it is  
hold on  
okay  
sorry about that  
yeah  
uh anyhow they have facilities here in my apartment complex for recycling paper only  
uh i've been recycling for maybe about two years now and at another public facility   where they have you know recycling of glass uh aluminum and paper  
now  
no  
and that's what i i don't understand exactly why they don't have that option  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now an additional thing is uh  
where i work   they also have recycling there of uh all white paper and of you know cans also  
so i mean a lot of people you know right at the [vending] machines   they have receptacles that you know   you can just pop your cans in  
and near the   xerox machines they have places you know for your   paper  
you know i keep a little box at my desk you know  
and i just throw as i'm using the white paper you know i just throw it right in there  
and then you know they have someone that comes around and pick it up you know every afternoon   which you know is an excellent idea   at work because i know the amount paper they go through there  
because  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i would agree with that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree with you there  
another thing that i like here which is  
i do with  
i have to actually go to two different recycling areas because one of them is that uh  
their aluminum cans is for uh children's hospital for a burn fund  
so all the monies are donated you know   for the recycling to children's hospital which i think is an excellent idea   there you know because the other   public  
right  
right  
and before even at work  
before they started the recycling plan which at work they've only been doing since january first of this year i had had everyone in my department recycling  
and you know i would have them drop   right drop their cans off in my office  
and then i would haul them you know here to this place for the children's hospital fund   which got people really going into it  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that  
there you go  
that's for sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
and i'm sure you know in the near future i would think they would be coming out with more  
you know i've seen a definite trend you know towards more recycling   everywhere you know even at mcdonald's   you know with their their use of no   foam containers anymore  
right  
i think i think it is getting more you know advertisement  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
okay  
well i did too  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
have you participated in anything like that  
uh_huh  
uh we we have a pretty nice recycling center uh in our city now  
and we take the newspapers and plastic and glass up there  
they're open like two days a week  
and you can just take it up there and drop it off  
it's kind of fun  
and everybody up there looks pleased with themselves when they're taking their stuff in like they're doing something good to   help the earth i guess  
yeah  
yeah  
my husband was complaining the other day  
because he said every time i turn around you're telling me some new rule about recycling  
like yesterday i was tell him you have to you're supposed to squeeze the plastic jugs before you take them up there  
every time he turns around i'm giving him some new rule   where you're supposed to squish up the you know like collapse the plastic jugs   instead of taking them up there solid  
and i wish that our recycling center took paper bags  
they won't take those  
we like to put our just put our newspapers in a paper bag you know and then carry them up there that way  
and we have to bring the paper bags back every time   because they won't take them  
do you uh take your papers somewhere  
or does someone pick them up  
uh_huh  
we um we don't take our cans up to that center though  
our aluminum cans we like to take them to one of the places where they pay you for them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it takes us about a year to save up enough to be worth you know worth bothering to go in and do  
but do you um have any ideas on anything that would make  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that would be a good idea  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that would be a real good motivation for people  
right  
yeah  
my father was telling me about some program he read about where you buy your bags like you buy your garbage bag from the city  
and you pay more than just what you would pay for an empty garbage bag  
but then you don't pay any monthly fee or anything  
so how ever many bags of garbage you throw away that's how many you have to pay for  
yeah  
yeah  
that would be a real good idea  
i'm trying to think if there's anything else i could think of  
they are talking about going to curbside pickup in our in our city  
rowlett texas  
do you know where that is  
and i don't know if they decided to do or not  
but i think they said it was going to add like either a dollar or three dollars a month to your bill to have them do that  
although i think a lot of those programs can operate at about a break even break even point   without charging people  
yeah  
i don't know uh  
i guess it just depends on how they manage it  
i don't know how much they get when they sell all that stuff  
the center that they've got now where you take your stuff in i i think that should be making some money   since they just have to hire someone to man it a few hours a week  
and they sell i guess they sell everything to some waste company that comes and gets it  
but i wish that uh more of the cans you know like the cans you buy vegetables and fruit and stuff like that in were recyclable  
i don't  
a lot of that's that recyclable steel  
and i don't know anybody that takes that  
my husband likes [pepsi]  
and those cans are steel instead of aluminum  
so we can't can't ever recycle them  
i think it's a good reason to quit buying it  
yeah  
that's what we buy the most of unless we're going on a trip or something where we want to   put the cans in a cooler  
but well that's all i can really think about for recycling  
it was good talking to you  
uh bye  

well a little bit  
we mostly do our newspapers  
we keep our newspapers and stuff like that and we keep our newspapers and stuff like that  
and we take them to be recycled  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and a lot of people complain because it's really not convenient for them  
you're supposed to what  
but what are you supposed to do with them  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we we usually collect a you know collect a quite a bit  
and then we take them take them in  
yeah  
we don't we don't um use aluminum cans  
so we generally don't have those to do  
you know they they charge you you know  
it's like a flat rate i think for picking up your garbage  
and i know a lot of people it would would solve the convenience problem if they had curbside pickup  
and some communities are trying to do that now  
and i think that maybe if they only charged for the garbage that you did not sort and have set up for recycling  
they they charged you by by weight of how much trash you were actually sending to a land fill  
that that might be a better way to do it  
and then people would would know that it was going to cost them money to not sort their trash  
you know because then it would then it would make monetary sense to them you know to say hey you know if i just spend the time to to sort this out where this stuff can be recycled then i don't have to pay for them hauling it off  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's about the same kind of thing  
where do you live  
oh okay  
yes  
it seems like they would be able to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
um now i didn't know that  
cause we just usually if we're going to uh buy sodas they're in the the two liter bottles  
yeah  
okay  
okay  
all right  
bye bye  

yes um  
i i think that plano has really done a fantastic job  
i mean at least their plans have are good  
um however i was  
maybe you saw in the paper this morning that um they've had some problems with   the recycling on plastic  
uh_huh  
i thought that was most interesting  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
i guess that's going to happen  
yeah  
a really good effort  
that's right  
yeah  
well i was thinking about the other day um when i when dick and i were oh many many years ago when we were first married and he was in graduate school in missouri um i went oh  
i was probably this was probably  
see it have been like nineteen sixty seven or sixty eight um  
we i went to a meeting  
and uh one of the the speakers at the meeting was a woman who was recycling  
and um   she was from saint louis  
and she had this fantastic um family effort in in recycling  
and she was [dividing] her colored glass and her plastics   and her aluminum  
and i thought wow i mean how one person is doing that you know  
but my my thought was it's a shame  
i mean it's wonderful that she's doing it and it  
but wouldn't it be much nicer if we all did it  
because her effort would have really um really uh been a good example for all of us  
and yet you know and we were just sort of talking about it at the time  
and here we are you know  
now we're doing it on a   city wide basis in in communities  
so it's wonderful that we've come that far i think  
but   um  
i think she was  
i was trying to remember  
it seems to me that she was doing it on her own and living in saint louis  
there were places where she could actually take her   uh things herself uh  
and so it wasn't you know something that was being picked up  
or um and i think she was encouraging other people to do it if they would  
but i remember her saying yes i have a trash can for this and a trash can for that and a trash can for the other thing  
and i thought wow that's that is wonderful that somebody does that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
sure you do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
isn't that amazing  
well you know  
yes  
people i don't know they find fault in everything rather than say this is a good effort  
yeah  
i don't know  
it's it's  
i i know what you're saying  
kind of people like that  
and   well sure it is  
yep  
yeah  
it's on down the line  
right  
yes  
yeah  
i agree  
when  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
well i know um  
i guess i got a good example from my mother  
because she was always very very conscientious about recycling things  
and she is to this day  
and you know i mean she'll even  
um if she  
for instance she she would take the [waxed] paper out of a cereal box and use that for you know when she made cookies  
it would go on that  
or   if she needed to wrap something for needed uh sandwich paper or something she'd use that  
she just she recycles everything  
and i have done the same thing  
i recycle like zip lock bags and   things like that  
my kids get the biggest kick out of that  
although they do the same thing  
i mean they   i think they give me a hard time  
but i think they know that that's   it's the right way  
uh_huh  
yes  
and they appreciate how much it costs to do that  
yeah  
that's right  
that's true yeah  
well i don't know you know  
i i wonder how how you instill in people the necessity for doing just a little bit extra to to make this whole thing work i mean the extra like washing out bottles and jars or the extra of actually uh making sure that uh you take stuff over to you know  
some people are now are complaining because the stuff isn't picked up at the curbside you know  
and i think golly [moses] you just do your part  
you know people are not  
you you you can't be waited on all your life and expect things to always work out  
no  
that's right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
uh   uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
do those little things  
yeah  
that make a lot of difference  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's i you know  
and   i think you're right though  
i think that it has to really hit home before   the message sometimes  
or you have to grow up with it being important in your life   um oh oh um before the message really takes hold sometimes  
and um i don't know  
it's uh it's just really interesting to me how now more aware of things i am than i even myself than i used to be   a few years ago  
i mean like i i'd go to the um to the u t d um cafeteria for lunch sometimes  
and they use styrofoam plates when they wouldn't   need to use styrofoam plates  
you know and i think to myself that's that's crazy  
i wonder if you know maybe i need to bring that to someone's attention you know  
and and uh i'm seeing more and more of that  
and and i think it's uh just mcdonald's effort to reduce the number of of styrofoam uh boxes that they use   for hamburgers and stuff  
i think is a good good example you know that even   industry is willing to do it  
yeah  
well i think that may that's kind of what it's coming to i'm sure  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
that doesn't   wouldn't surprise me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh   i know it  
and unfortunately  
with the plastic  
well i just i thought it was sad that they it started out as a good program   but then people started dumping trash   and the wrong objects in there  
and i   and that concerned me that people were using it as a way to get rid of things they just didn't want to set at the curb or take to the   dump  
and   and uh   i it's too bad that people have to ruin   a good part thing  
but uh  
um  
oh  
doing it  
what did she do with  
if if she  
was she like a group that was doing it  
or was she doing it on her own  
and   what did she do with the  
uh_huh  
you you have to really want to do it though  
this is  
even even what you recycle  
because we we do the the plastics and the   and the aluminum   and the glass and the paper  
and um and of course then you know you try to buy right too  
but   um a lot of our neighbors say well what you have to rinse out this and you have to make sure it's that   and you have to  
it's uh we we had neighbors that complained when we got the new garbage cans  
and i thought what are you complaining about   when you're only going to get picked up once a month you know   or once a week  
and  
rather than work with it  
yeah  
well it's for everybody's benefit  
i mean it's it's not  
so maybe we don't realize it in our lifetime  
but we you have to think grandchildren   and great grandchildren  
and   what kind of quality of life are you leaving them  
and and the and i have a real concern about that  
uh  
we've never had much trash  
because while  
i was raised in a big family  
and   and gene's family wasn't big  
but they weren't rich  
and they had to to recycle  
and and you know the  
well they didn't  
they just used things  
they didn't   throw things away   before they were used up  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
they've picked up the  
well they do  
and when they actually get out away from the home   and have to do their own buying of things   and then they say well hey you know mom used to do this and   dad used to do that  
and pretty soon they're they're figuring out that's not such a bad way  
to go   but  
right  
well see this this is what concerns me  
you  
over in europe they don't have the kind of waste we do here  
you you've got to be in a country  
even in in mexico   you don't see things thrown away   like we do here  
i mean what we throw away is is a [ransom] a [king's]   [ransom] to most people  
and i  
and even to people in our country   who [scavenge] for food  
and   and and i i think you have to get into a period of need    
you can't tell a person that lives in a hundred two hundred three hundred thousand dollar house that have all that they need   and all that they could want   that they've got to be careful  
this is uh i this is why i thought jimmy carter was never very very  
you know people didn't like him  
because he tried to say   turn off the lights   conserve this do that  
and and uh   the i nobody wanted to hear it  
it's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
huh  
i i think the big question too we're looking at is would you be willing to pay more for a product   so it can be recycled  
that's that's right  
and   and uh do we have to wait until all the landfills   are full and there is nowhere else to put our garbage  
or and i don't  
with the mind set of the american public i think what they will do is start paying mexico   to take our trash   that isn't that isn't harmful  
or they will go dump it out in the middle of some ocean  
that's the way we solve problems  
and it's sad  
hi  
good morning  
do you have recycling in [sachse]  
do  
oh really  
and it's twice a week  
really  
we have   recently started uh a bin program here in plano where uh  
used to be we we put all of our trash in green bags and the trash men came out twice a week and picked up  
and now they have uh these large green containers  
and you have to put your trash that you don't recycle in there  
and then they haven't started curbside recycling yet  
but they're but they're planning on doing it very soon  
apparently the trucks that they had um lined up they needed the parts for   saudi arabia  
and so that put off the program for a while  
but uh do you recycle  
do they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well  
that's great  
well that's the way we started too  
my daughter was going   to camp [goddard] um which is through the plano school system you know in the fall   couple of years ago  
and she had to earn money for it  
and she was too young to baby sit  
so that's how she started  
she started recycling cans  
and from there we now recycle glass and newspapers and uh aluminum cans and plastics  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
the only thing we get paid for are the aluminum cans  
um the rest of it we just do because my husband has become hooked on recycling  
and so you know we don't get paid for that  
but that's okay  
you know it's it's not that much of a bother really  
you just have to rinse out your bottles or whatever  
and we use a lot of   two liter bottles um and like milk cartons and things like that  
it's amazing how much plastic you generate  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it really is  
well all that stuff  
and how much how much we have reduced our waste   you know that we we're [generating] a week  
um i know our neighbors when we first went to this bin program said oh there's no way you know we're going to have to have pickup twice a week  
they were real upset  
but they weren't they were only picking up once a week  
and we said to them if you recycle you'll you know you'll go two weeks without having to put out the green container  
and uh it's it's really amazing  
the other thing he does that my husband a real [stickler] about is we don't collect our grass clippings  
no  
he he got a little [mulcher] thing  
it's just a little attachment for the lawn mower  
and we mow once a week  
you know no no more often then that  
and then the clippings just get mulched up and then just lay on the on on the uh the lawn  
and it's amazing  
it's amazing  
we don't collect any of that  
and that that has cut down a lot in what we throw out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
sure it does  
sure it does  
it really does  
and it  
actually they say that you're wasting fertilizer   if you're not uh if you're catching your grass clippings  
that that's that much fertilizer you have to use because it does fertilize the lawn  
it's amazing  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
that's true  
well i i really think you're going to get hooked on plastics and paper before you know it  
it's it's really not that much trouble  
we keep a large plastic uh just a you know a garbage bag in the garage  
and as soon as we use something you know we crush it up and put it out there  
and then you know every few weeks we have recycling a recycling center like near wal mart  
they're they have the containers that you can just go over there and drop it in  
and it's really no trouble  
and uh i feel like at least we're doing something  
you know um i read a book one time or a a magazine article  
and they said something about how you don't realize even just your small contribution it seems like a small contribution  
but it's not  
if everyone were to recycle just their newspapers they would save thousands and thousands of trees a day   a day just from not throwing out your newspapers  
and uh when you read that you think well gee maybe it is a big deal   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and that's and that's really not necessary  
it really isn't  
if everybody would do just a little bit it would make a big difference  
it would make a huge impact  
so i'm excited about the recycling program in plano  
i i can't wait for them to get it started   um because it'll be that much easier for us  
you know like i said now we have to take it over to to wal mart  
it would be real nice if they just came by and just picked up  
um  
now what what do they pick up  
it's just  
oh they do  
uh_huh  
and do you have to sort that  
or do you just put it all in  
right  
right  
so you're doing that now  
you're doing the newspapers and the glass  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
my husband would   come home and go through the trash   and say you threw this away  
he would get he would get all upset  
and i'd say  
it's just such an automatic reaction  
and now   we think before we throw anything away  
i mean it's really funny  
we we really  
once you get into the habit of it it's okay  
it's just it's just making it a habit that's hard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's fun  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that's a lot of fun  
that's a lot of fun  
well that's great  
well i'm to hear you're   doing that  
i  
my sister was here recently from connecticut  
and they have a deposit on all their bottles and cans  
good morning  
yes  
we do  
we've   got uh a pickup twice a week that they come out  
and they have their own special bin that they hand it out to everybody  
and they take it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
um my kids do  
put it that way  
they   they've been recycling cans   for extra money  
so that's that's been their summer money  
and they're fixing to go to disneyland  
so  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
is is that the same way as with the aluminum cans where you go  
and they   weigh it or whatever  
and  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
i was amazed at how many cans   that we got  
because when the kids first went down i said that you know that's great  
and i was thinking you know maybe i'd help supplement it you know   when they turned them in  
but it's amazing how many cans you go through   and how fast they accumulate  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we don't we don't catch it either mainly because my husband rarely has time to mow the yard  
so if it mows gets mowed i do it normally  
and i can't mow the yard with the grass catch on it  
it's too heavy  
so i just i just mow it and leave it  
it just [soaks] in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i like it better doing it  
well one  
it cuts down on my mow time anyway  
and you zip through it quicker  
we probably will  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
what what makes me sick is is when they show the dump sites   you know and and how big they are  
or like in new york the [barges] that   that go up and down the the river  
and they don't have any place to put it  
and it just floats in the  
it's like ugh  
no  
yeah  
it it's   it's convenient out here for them to do it  
they pick up the the plastic the glass and the newspaper  
uh_huh  
and they will do the  
no  
you just put it in the one bin  
and and i guess they do the sorting  
but um they'll do the aluminum cans too  
but we don't give them those  
the kids keep those  
so  
uh_huh  
well   we don't we don't take the newspaper to begin with when neither one of us are home   to read it  
so we don't have the newspapers but the the plastic and the glass  
at first when it first started it it it was hard   you know because you're just used to throwing things  
uh  
it is  
oh i know  
well the kids have even got to the point where they if they see anybody going in the trash can with a can you know they they're oh no don't do that  
and they go to the sink they rinse them out and they put them upside down they let them drain  
and   and then uh after a couple of days they take them all outside  
and i put them in a big bag anyway  
and then they dump the bag out  
and then they crush them  
so that's   their activity thing to go out there and crush  
so  
yeah  
oh really  
okay  
well let's see  
well we keep our paper paper bags lined up in the garage for glass and glass and uh plastics  
and uh we make the dump over to the wal mart bins there as soon as they're full  
i guess we collect milk cartons and whatever other plastics are acceptable  
no  
no  
i didn't think that anybody had those at all yet  
right  
well no  
i haven't seen any  
so i i thought that it all had all been delayed several times  
so i have no idea what they look like  
and i'm   kind of anxious to see them  
oh right  
right  
right  
oh  
oh of course  
that they did  
you know actually we had milk delivered to our house   in glass bottles  
and we had a milk shoot at the side of the house  
you could just leave the [milkman] a note   on what you needed  
and so you just put the empty ones back out there  
and he took them away and put you know put another gallon of glass glass bottle in there  
so uh yeah  
right  
right  
it would be nice it would be nice to see it take a good turn here  
it seems like it started to take a turn and then it went away  
so i hope that this time it it stays  
just   to see stacks and stacks of newspapers just to the trash is just amazing  
so uh you know we when we go dump actually when we go dump our things oh we collect newspapers too and then take them  
seems like there's a pretty well there's a pretty continual flow of people coming and dumping glass and dumping plastics  
so that's kind of encouraging  
i didn't know you know i didn't know if we started to do that  
i didn't know what to expect  
right  
well i guess they will shortly  
i uh  
oh right  
yeah  
right  
do you know i saw in tom thumb yesterday i saw the return to the uh the small coke bottles  
and i don't know if there's a deposit on those or not  
they were glass they were the glass uh  
well let's see  
they'd be i don't know maybe ten ounce or   six ounce or ten ounce   sort of a small size sort of a small size and and we anyway we just we didn't stop and look them look at them a long time  
but and they were packed in the old sort of six pack stick them down you know uh   sort of sort of a basket   type thing  
right  
right  
so i hadn't seen that in a long time  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
no  
he doesn't like the paper sacks  
and uh but he but you know he likes to pick the grass up too  
he doesn't   doesn't  
right  
right  
that's nice  
i guess they dump it the same place  
i wonder where they dump that  
yeah  
yeah  
well they must they must keep it separate if they have this date in  
they have this day now that it's you know separate from the other trash pick up  
no  
are you in the part of town where uh they have gotten into the other containers yet for recycling  
well maybe they don't  
i i know that was supposed to be in may  
and i couldn't tell whether some parts of town had started it or if it was just everybody was was waiting for the delivery of whatever those containers were  
yeah  
that's going to be interesting because it's uh we've gotten so convenient and [conventional] in trash disposal which is uh  
i look at our big green containers  
and i say well they work fine  
and i keep mine outside the garage so that i don't have any [odors]  
but   it's clearly a place where uh uh  
it will be interesting to see how well that works  
and i am i'm glad the community is doing it  
uh it's one of those things that kind of has to be forced on people  
uh i don't know if where you grew up in your what you saw back uh years ago  
but for me the thing that strikes me is i uh growing up in rural south dakota where hey the farmers brought their eggs to town and the local [hatchery]   would candle them and package them is that uh in the fifties uh you could say we had the recycling going on then that we should have now   which was all the milk bottles were glass  
and you got a nickel or dime which in that time was a lot of money when you returned them  
pop bottles   all had a deposit on them  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so uh you know i look back at at uh my childhood  
and i'd say you know they were doing things then that we should be doing now  
and so it doesn't bother me at all that we're we're uh kind of starting to put the pressure on people to get away from all this uh [throwaway] society that got developed in the sixties and seventies  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'll have to say i'm i'm the only one i'm good at at this point is the newspaper uh taking that to the boy scouts and my aluminum cans   uh getting rid of those  
but on the plastic i have uh i don't have any habits there yet  
and i'm guess i'm waiting for the city to to push me in that direction  
but   but it just seems like on the larger scale that you know the we always talk about in our society is that economic strife things  
and i think if uh if we just start to put you know the nickel deposit on things like uh was the case years ago that uh it would have more immediate effect uh than  
because i remember searching [ditches] for beer bottles because they were worth money  
and it seems like beer [drinkers] are among the worst for throwing things out the window  
and so outside my little town   we would uh go out and   look for long neck beer bottle because they were worth something  
yeah  
i  
well that's interesting because  
they're back to glass you're saying  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
the carton   the paper carton  
yeah  
well i mean the  
you really look and say a lot of the things we need to do we were doing  
and we had all the mechanisms in place with the fold up paper cartons the wood uh racks which now basically you could turn them into the plastic ones that would hold uh twenty four bottles  
and and uh uh i'm not really say going back to good old days  
but certainly we were doing things the way we think we should do them now  
well it will be interesting to see how over the next year this all works out because like on the uh grass i'm i know your husband uh doesn't really like the paper sacks  
yeah  
i'm the i'm the same way because otherwise uh  
oh i'm i generally listen to neal sperry on saturdays and neal uh [neal's] a person who says i like to pick it up  
but i don't believe in throwing it into the uh the landfill  
so i have my compost pile  
but most of us don't have the uh sufficient   lot size to uh to do that  
uh so i'm glad the city's willing to take that on  
well there's someplace you know  
if it's  
because really when i look at what my grass does in in actually about twenty four hours uh knowing what the farmers do in rural areas they just take their hay and just build a big mound of it and it naturally uh [composts] or stores  
and uh so all you have to do is just place it somewhere and [churn] it  
and it will naturally decompose uh  
so you just have to kind of keep in separated  
and then uh who knows how they process it from there and what they turn it into  
but it's certainly [usable] material  
uh_huh  
right  
but i the thing i don't understand about that is like when  
it's one thing to send grass there  
but i've trimmed trees and other things which uh end up being something that clearly won't decompose nearly as rapidly  
seems to be a a topic that's going to probably take about a generation to uh catch on it seems or maybe a generation to two  
and we may have to do it out of necessity as far as moving that time schedule up  
uh it does seem to be a lot of habits to break  
i uh wasn't raised as a kid on it  
but my kids are  
and so they they tended to want to grab the aluminum cans when that was one of the first things to do  
and we were doing all right there until uh the price dropped out  
and they weren't worth anything anymore  
and we  
it took us almost a year to get a garbage sack full  
we just don't drink that many  
so as far as at home use uh we'll pick up a six pack every once in a while or for whatever occasion of doctor pepper or something  
and and by the time we gathered up enough [crushed] cans to take it in uh  
at the time it was still oh about forty or fifty cents a pound  
and we came out with about a dollar  
it just really wasn't worth it  
yeah  
so they they realized you know  
well of course to them a dollar was a dollar at four and five years old  
that wasn't uh that was a big deal  
but we decided it wasn't worth us keeping it  
and then uh t i started keeping up with uh cans there  
so occasionally i'll bring whatever i've got laying around the car or the like and throw them in there  
least it gets back into the system  
but as far as a habit at the house uh i haven't started on anything other than just whatever the city wants to pick up  
have you all got the individual containers yet  
um  
right  
yeah  
it seemed like uh  
if if i recall it's been a long time  
they're way behind schedule on that particular part of it  
they were fine on the green big green containers  
but uh seems like they said they were just going to have a bin  
and all different types would go in there  
and then that they would sort it as   as needed  
it it seemed that there was  
at the time anyway it the thinking was that there was too much not getting sorted properly and that at at the collection sites where everything's clearly labeled and people that happen to go to that kind of trouble to do it happen to do it pretty well uh those are okay to have the general public doing the sorting  
but when it comes down to just general purpose trash that all the houses uh  
the success rate of getting it sorted properly seemed to be poor  
so they felt that having one guy just sit there and run through it real quick was better than than   having a household try it  
but i i don't know  
that sounds like an awful lot of labor to sort the entire week's worth of trash for a house  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's true  
right  
yeah  
they don't do that  
we live next to a set of railroad tracks  
and it seemed to be a very popular thing for people driving by that highway there by our tracks to throw the bottles at the tracks and try to crash you know   break them  
but uh they weren't that successful  
so there were a lot of bottles to be returned  
and we just walk about a half a mile in each direction and gathered up enough to buy whatever we wanted   for the day  
and  
yeah  
just a little bit of begging will  
right  
well i wonder  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
where do you take your cans  
uh_huh  
and a lot of hassle all year round  
and cans laying  
yeah  
no  
i read in the paper this week where maybe  
i don't know if it was  
i guess maybe this week someone may start getting them if the truck that picks them up is [outfitted] in time  
but it it should be starting i would stay probably in the next month if if everything goes that  
i'm not sure all what we're going to have to do whether we have three separate containers  
i really don't understand that part on what they've told you to separate everything  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
well it would get messy too  
i i i know other places when they recycle they have to like wash out their glass jars and   whatnot and uh which we're not in the habit of doing  
i was brought up uh you know long time ago that they didn't even have cans  
they had bottles  
and you'd return them to the   the grocery store  
and you'd get our money back  
and that that was all well and good  
they don't seem to still be doing that  
if they could just eliminate the cans and use glass  
but i guess this day and age   they don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and they uh  
i i think kids don't appreciate maybe the value of money that it's so little that they don't care  
they can get more somewhere else  
uh for a good  
right  
they're  
the [nickels] the [dimes] or what i suppose it might be quarters fifty cent pieces in these days that they would get they the kids just don't seem to to care that that much about a small amount of money  
but we we did buy a can crusher  
and we are [crushing] cans  
and when we buy the soda when it's on sale for ninety nine cents  
so i would say   in the last three years we've probably used a lot more cans than ever before  
uh it was just easier to do that than to open a large liter bottle and then have it go flat  
so that's the main reason we're we sort of are into cans at this point rather than the liter bottles  
well as you say it takes a while to build it up  
since we've had the crusher all summer we i guess we just now maybe have a bag full that we haven't oh  
i think the kids when we were on vacation they said they did take them to a a recycling place probably at one of the  
uh_huh  
that's okay  
that's okay  
it's more uh concentrated so they know where you are  
uh anyway i know here in here in plano some of the things that we do are um kroger  
and some of the other stores too have said if you bring your bags back to to the store to recycle then they'll pay you a certain amount of money  
and that's one thing that started in the community  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know kroger will do it  
and i think albertson's does it sometimes  
i'm not sure  
um and and yet i know that uh some of the stores will actually help the community not pay you the money back but will pay the the uh community like through the schools   or things like that  
so um that's always helpful  
and i know that we we have the the can the can different can banks around the city   that you can go to and do that  
um one of the ways  
i don't know uh if this would be helpful  
it said on the the computer what do i think would be helpful  
and i don't know if it would be helpful or not  
but i know on monday the the garbage men pick up like just um any limbs or any extra trash that you might have  
and that might be an extra day to put out things that might be recycled if we had a a certain colored can to put them in or something in the city to put like either glass or newspapers or whatever  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i know getting a newspaper everyday i know i could just you know do that   because i have to pick it up  
and it just goes out with our trash  
and i guess i'm not as um recycling minded as i should be  
but that goes out with the trash  
and it really could be recycled  
did you  
tell me  
don't you have to take like labels off of those jars  
yeah  
take them off  
yeah  
soda  
both liter sodas  
can you do that  
okay  
right  
right  
i i know with our family that we could really be helpful if we could find a way to just um get it into different categories like that  
and   i i don't know what it would take to to get my children to start working on it  
i have two older ones that probably would go along with the if i had it arranged so that it wasn't a big project you know  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
all set  
actually i'm in plano too  
i say dallas area when i'm talking to people elsewhere  
yeah  
they actually pay you money for that  
um um [brookshires] up in uh allen uh you bring your bags back you know they uh the plastic bags back or the paper bags you put them in the receptacles there  
but i didn't realize some people are actually paying you for that um  
uh_huh  
interesting  
right  
right  
yeah  
i think they already do that out east  
um they have to it's a little bit more difficult because people have to remember okay today's glass   okay [tomorrow's] plastic and all that  
but i think that's the way we need to go  
it's uh it's pretty bad  
all these years we've  
been especially in this country all the uh the plastic and the paper and everything we just used to throw out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
about six months ago i started  
yeah  
and uh   so what i do is uh  
it's not bad  
you just have to have a place to keep everything  
but uh it you'll be amazed if you ever start doing it  
just put your paper in the same place every day  
and it'll start [stacking] up  
take your glass um you know pickle jars or or whatever uh liquid jars you know  
just rinse them out a little bit  
and put them all in a place  
and uh plastics  
no  
from what i understand uh you can leave the labels on um although i rip rip them off  
i don't i don't scrub them or anything  
i just tear them off  
throw the lids and everything out  
but uh put all the glass in one place and plastics like milk jugs uh orange juice jugs things like that  
yes  
those also  
um and then of course uh cans coke cans whatever  
but uh i haven't been down to the recycling center yet to find out exactly what they need or what they take and all that  
i've just read a lot about it  
and i'm keeping these big piles of it right now  
i going to try to dump it out this weekend in fact  
but uh you'd be amazed how quickly it all stacks up  
there's a lot that we throw out  
uh_huh  
it's yeah it's not a big deal  
you get used to it  
one  
let me tell you one interesting thing  
when i went back to the store and i said hey um i understand you all are taking these bags back uh you know what do you do with them  
and they told me they look through them all and throw out the ones that don't belong there and then you know go and recycle the rest  
and i said what do you mean the ones that don't belong there  
and they said well people come in and put anything in the receptacles  
and what i found out is if you look at the bottom of those bags kroger or whatever   the plastic ones they've got numbers on them  
yeah  
and if it's got the little recycle symbol and inside it it's got a number like bags from drug [emporium] have a  
so do you have any recycling programs there  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
we've [progressed] a little bit farther than that  
um actually they have uh  
parts of town  
it may have even spread all over the whole town  
and um they will have these green bins  
and it's just as standard as a a regular trash can that they come by and pick up and dump  
and uh just along with a trash can you have this this green plastic bin  
and you put your bottles in it and paper and uh you know all those things that  
aluminum  
you know anything that can be recycled you just put in that bin  
and uh i guess you can  
and a lot of the restaurants   they just have uh places where you can throw away especially beer places where you can throw away green bottles   and then the brown bottles  
and uh-oh i don't know  
i guess they're you know clear bottles  
so um you know a lot of people do have those separated  
and of course they have the um dumpsters uh the the [igloos]  
uh and they have those [strategically] placed around the city  
and uh they're they're actually going to extend it i think one of these days maybe to apartment complexes  
and uh  
yeah  
things of that nature  
so i guess when you live in a bigger city it it really becomes uh   necessary  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh really  
huh  
yeah  
i remember my grandparents and i used to always get out there on the road and pick up beer cans  
and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're doing a real good job of uh separating it here  
and of course there you know you have a specific place to put your paper  
and uh they try to get you to go ahead and separate it  
but they actually have the door to door pickup  
um and it's uh i think it started out to be um just kind of a test a pilot project  
and it went over so well that they just extended it  
and it's almost uh  
i don't know if it's done by a private company or not  
it may be  
but uh they just go around to each uh door and pick it up  
yeah  
let's see  
oh and every year of course the phone books   um they tell everybody across the city to uh put all their phone books in uh the uh recycle bins  
because you know phone books are pretty  
well for a bigger city they're pretty thick  
and sometimes you might have two or three  
so uh that's that's a big savings right there in itself  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well the thing about newspapers and paper  
recycled paper is actually very expensive  
so when you see something that's on recycled paper they've actually gone to a lot of expense to do that  
it's uh  
they're not coming out ahead at all  
it's uh it's really a cost  
yeah  
i mean it it sounds good to the public  
but there's really a big cost [incurred] when you do recycle something  
now aluminum i don't know  
they may be coming out ahead  
but i know   for a fact that the paper uh on that end they're not you know  
it's just good to recycle  
but it's uh not to their advantage  
and it costs less  
i can't think of anything else  
okay  
uh_huh  
well i hope you all um uh come along a little farther in the future  
it was nice talking to you  
bye bye  
um i don't really think we have anything in the works as of yet  
uh we're a pretty small town  
and uh the closest thing we have are bins like out in front of wal mart   that show you know plastics paper   liter bottles et cetera et cetera  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
oh that would be good  
yeah  
see   it's not anywhere near that  
uh we you know  
as far as our little pitch in to it we do recycle our aluminum cans  
but that's as far as we go  
because i take them to a girl at work  
and she goes and [cashes] them in because you know  
i just   i can do that for her  
and   and i don't want the hassle because we have to go to another town to do it  
yeah  
see we don't have anything here in [belton]  
it's it's a pretty small little town  
yeah  
so you know that's about all the that we're doing here  
uh they're uh getting a little bit more on  
they need to a lot a more community awareness of just what is it mean to recycle and what can you recycle and what you can't   because you know not a lot of people do really know what you know what it's for  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow that's excellent  
that's good  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
they are  
exactly  
yeah  
see ours just goes in the regular trash  
it just   you know there's not a whole lot  
and there are you know some places that will set up you know for old newspapers and stuff  
but usually it's it it hasn't caught on yet  
i'm hoping it will soon  
yeah  
huh i wasn't totally aware of that  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
huh well  
i can't either   because we're we're at a very you know beginning stages  
so  
we look forward to it to get better  
yeah  
me too  
you too  
bye  
why don't you go ahead and say what you feel  
and then i'll respond  
yeah  
well how long have you been here  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's a good excuse  
you need to get into the   the system a little more and know where to take things  
we've been here probably two and a half years  
and and we didn't recycle at all before we came  
so i think we're doing well  
we we save most of our aluminum cans and glass   and newspaper right now  
well the um glass and the newspaper we usually take to walmart  
they have um in behind walmart they have bins  
and then we usually save up our cans and and change them in for money  
uh_huh  
um there's a place on parker road um  
it's just over the [overpass] before you get like to k mart  
i think there's a a service station there  
there's usually a semi truck that has a a person there that will weigh them  
and   now they aren't worth much right now  
but   it's better than nothing  
so  
and what i hear a lot of neighborhoods do have the the pickup now  
and we hopefully we'll be getting them in the month of october  
yeah  
and   i think it's been delayed  
i think it was originally scheduled for february  
but the trucks that were supposed to do it there's been some problems with   from what i've read in you know the mail that we get  
and i can't wait for that  
that will be easy  
i get tired of newspaper [littering] the garage  
i feel guilty we don't recycle our our milk containers because they seem like a big waste  
yeah  
yeah  
they fill up the whole kitchen garbage can  
so i'll be glad when the bins do come  
and i think that's when i'll i'll start doing the plastic too  
yeah  
i've gotten used to washing the you know the um salad dressing bottles and   things like that  
it's not that big of a deal  
and it's nicer to just throw them out  
but we can do our part   take an extra minute or two  
oh when we first were were here it was like we'd take maybe a oh a grocery sack full or   maybe two grocery sacks full  
and it would be like two dollars   but since last time we've gotten more like a dollar  
yeah  
which is understandable  
i think more people are   are recycling  
that's something we we don't really make any effort to  
and whatever pop we drink we used to take the boys out for a bike ride and pick up the litter you know the the cans  
and that was kind of fun  
but we haven't done that for a long time  
so  
well the boys think it's fun plus you get your exercise  
and   you do get to stop once in a while when there is a can to rest  
so  
but  
well hopefully the bins will be here in this month  
and that will spur you on  
so  
all right well it sounds like we're doing our part and at least starting   trying  
that's all you can do  
so  
um yeah  
you can do it as long as you want  
they you know  
if it's been long enough five minutes is is when they cut in and say say we don't have any more room for recording  
so   we can say good bye now  
it was good talking to you  
and maybe we'll get on line again  
thanks sherry  
bye bye  
all right  
well i'm uh i'm very guilty of of not doing my part with recycling i'm afraid  
we um recently moved here from north carolina  
and they had curbside recycling  
and it was very easy to you know to put everything out there  
but we don't have it in at least in our neighborhood right now  
and uh so i've been very guilty about not making the effort to to take things where take things where they belong  
well we've been here since january  
so   we we still feel very new  
but uh   it's working up to a year now  
so i guess we're old timers compared to some people  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well where do you take those things  
uh_huh  
well where do you do that  
because we've been saving cans for my daughter's choir   um  
but i didn't know where to take them  
oh  
yeah  
better than nothing  
right  
yeah  
i  
it seems like ever since we've moved here we've been hearing that you know   it's coming in a couple of months  
but  
oh  
right  
yeah  
it gets to be a bit much to haul it off  
but  
well they yeah they they're a lot of bulk anyway  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
it was real easy with the bins  
it really was  
it was just no effort at all um no more trouble than taking out the garbage  
so um  
right  
yeah  
well how much do you earn on the cans  
i i didn't know what kind of an idea to give her for  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so it's gone down  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that sounds like a pretty good project  
oh  
well i'll have to keep myself and and get on it  
my neighbor across the street um is so careful about recycling  
and so i keep telling myself i'll i'll get it organized  
but may maybe they'll beat me and and do the city wide first  
right  
right  
i won't have any excuse then  
that's for sure  
thinking about it anyway  
yeah  
but   well um have you  
do they time this thing for us  
or do we  
you can't chat all day huh  
okay  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
we're on uh recycling  

and uh i am not real well informed on exactly what richardson does  
i know that we uh they ask us to bundle our newspapers  
and we do that  
and we recycle our aluminum pop cans and stuff  
but now plano has quite an elaborate system don't they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
okay  
okay  
and then they they separate it  
oh that's a neat system  
oh uh_huh  
well i know our son and daughter in law live in plano  
and i know they have [commented] on the system  
i don't know that they know that it worked that way  
but they have the two separate containers and stuff  
oh that is interesting  
because i wonder if that means that if you don't do it  
do you suppose they will come and knock on your door and  
that that is interesting  
you know will you be penalized if you don't  
will you uh  
right  
right  
that's true except that it's hard to imagine you know when you have uh cans you know from the the market and uh   you know vegetable cans and et cetera  
oh they don't take vegetable cans  
this is just their aluminum cans  
well then yes  
so they have  
that's interesting  
i wonder uh uh  
wouldn't you really like to know  
i'm sure  
you know if nothing else call the sanitation department say okay  
what are you doing reading you know  
i think it's a very good thing  
i think that uh i think it helps if the city is giving you a [nudge] to do it   because i think there are a lot of people that don't do it  
and i can't say that my husband and i are real real conscientious  
we got started on the aluminum cans because our uh grandson was collecting them uh to raise money   and stuff for an organization he was in  
so we started collecting them  
and now he's through  
so we've just we've kept on  
and it's interesting too that we have to drive we drive to plano at plano road to uh just inside your city limits to you know   turn them in   to dump them in  
i'm sure there's bound to be some here in richardson  
but we just haven't really seen them advertised or   you know something  
well that's interesting  
uh_huh  
well i haven't noticed uh i haven't noticed richardson you know making that big a  
yes  
uh_huh  
i see  
yeah  
they do  
uh it started out several years ago when they put these uh collection sites   they uh near a walmart near a football stadium and the like  
and they just couldn't believe how many people were going out of their way to fill these things up  
these huge dumpsters were being filled up in a in a matter of a week  
so they knew that there was something going on here  
so they started looking into programs  
and what we have now  
it they changed the whole way that they do garbage in plano  
instead of collecting plastic bags of garbage two days a week they make a collection on monday for yard waste  
and the yard waste has to be put in a special bag that's a [decomposable] paper sack  
it's a pretty good size  
it's maybe the size of two or three um grocery bags  
and we put that out by the street  
and they collect those on monday  
and then on wednesday we put out two containers that they gave us  
one [container's] a huge green monstrous thing that a uh uh a special truck comes by and hooks onto the side of it and [flips] the container into the back of the garbage truck  
so and that's where you put your regular um garbage and trash  
and then also that same day you put out a small tub  
it's maybe two feet high and three feet by two feet wide  
and you put just throw in your aluminum and your milk jugs and newspaper  
and then the  
exactly  
they have a big truck that has like not ten maybe five big doors on the side of it  
and they throw the different stuff in the different doors  
yeah  
it is  
and apparently it's you know it it went off pretty much without a hitch  
the trucks the special five door trucks were a little tough in getting because of something to do with the persian gulf war  
that the trucks were being the engines or something were being shipped over there for something or other  
but it does work pretty well  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
i noticed something interesting last time i guess two wednesdays ago when they were picking up  
i happened to be out there in the morning when they were picking up the that tub stuff  
and the man who was doing the separating when he was done [emptying] the tub he took a little electronic reader device off of his belt  
and he read the bar code that was on the side of the tub  
so they must be collecting information about who does it and how often  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i i don't know  
but i think that's a really interesting question  
yeah  
that that seems farfetched only because it it there's no law that says you have to buy a newspaper   or pop cans or milk jugs  
so there there's it's possible that there is a person in plano that doesn't buy any of those three things and therefore wouldn't have  
right  
no  
they won't take vegetable cans  
just just the aluminum pop cans  
yeah  
yeah  
what they're doing with that  
i would  
someday i'm sure we'll find out  
uh_huh  
so tell me your feelings on recycling  
is it do you think this is a good thing or silly  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
dump them off  
yeah  
and that is interesting  
right  
yeah  
well the  
yeah  
the plano newspaper each each day in fact has a a little list of all the recycling centers for all the different things  
they publish it every single day  
yeah  
and phone numbers and and that kind of stuff  
okay jerry  
i guess tonight's topic is about recycling  
and i'd like to tell you first of all what's happening in our community   here in plano  
right now we have a pretty nice recycling program where a lot of the recyclable materials can be picked up by the by the collection agency or the the city along with your garbage can  
uh you can put out newspaper  
you can put out glass  
you can put out aluminum cans  
you can put put out certain types of plastic material  
and that is on a roll out effort right now  
not all the citizens and the people in plano can go ahead and uh participate right now  
but uh that will be rolled out to everyone i hope in the next year or so  
and those that aren't participating they have the specific drop off sites where you can take glass and newspaper and aluminum  
and i think uh overall that's an an excellent opportunity  
because i hate to see our landfills being filled up and uh growing bigger and bigger and bigger where they are becoming a big problem for not only the people that are living today but for the future also  
so  
how about your community  
dye mound  
uh_huh  
sounds like a place where i grew up  
well i like it  
uh_huh  
well good  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh  
well let's hope not  
you can be uh get in trouble for that  
uh_huh  
well it's quite similar to a [hydraulic] jack isn't it  
okay  
okay  
yes  
until you release it  
all right  
i think  
yes  
oh yes  
i sure do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
no  
well great  
that's excellent  
well uh if a lot of people did that then we wouldn't have a lot of this junk mail  
that's a great idea  
i hadn't thought about that  
and we might be able to incorporate some of that  
one thing  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
yes  
well that's a great idea  
that's a great idea  
products  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
they will  
exactly  
huh  
well that's a full time job  
yes  
well i've found out too that uh you know a couple years ago  
we've always been recycling newspaper for the last twelve years  
and at one time we could get a pretty good return uh with the boy scouts  
we could take and collect the newspaper  
uh_huh  
all right  
yeah  
uh i was  
my community  
that's cute  
i live in a place called dye mound  
or dye community  
and it's not a city not incorporated  
my nearest neighbor's about a half a mile at least  
i can't even see their house  
and uh  
yeah  
i mean uh i'm out in i'm out in the wilderness literally  
and uh well give you an idea  
it's three and a half miles of dirt road to the concrete   i mean to the asphalt  
we're out there  
and uh we i do some interesting recycling things  
i'm building our house right now  
and i'm going to incorporate into my uh garage area a weight activated uh crusher  
so when i drive the car in the in the driveway in the afternoon it it will just drive it up on a [ramp] that actually puts me on top of the the uh pressure side of a uh [hydraulic] cylinder  
and the weight of the car will crush   what's ever in the [disposer]  
hopefully it's not my wife  
well i thought i'd you know i'd use it as a an [escapement] type thing  
i don't know if you're familiar with that operation  
but what you do is you just build up the pressure  
and then you go over and release it  
and then it just it just drops you know  
very similar  
yeah  
well what what it will be you just you drive up on the jack  
but you it won't go down  
until you pull the pin  
yeah  
anyway   i have another uh recycling method i use  
you know all that junk mail you get  
the glossy paper that says buy this and send off for that and   you have won and all that  
well anytime they send me a return envelope   i put all that stuff back in the envelope   plus the other stuff that i you know happen to gather up  
because uh well like i say we live a way  
and when you throw trash away you throw it in my yard  
and i don't like that  
so i don't do that  
so i take it  
and i send and i mail it back to them  
i've had four companies actually stop mailing me stuff  
yeah  
well i think one of the the best ways to eliminate uh or help the recycling problem is to eliminate non reusable items  
for instance uh i saw a thing on uh nova i think it was the other day  
this guy has designed recyclable materials i mean recyclable items  
whatever he makes it's all out of the same thing  
see so plastic it's all out of plastic  
if it's metal it's all out of metal  
it's he's a design he's a engineer designing stuff  
and and [incorporating] you know reusable materials into your uh you know your   assembly line into your actual scheme of product operations is   is the only way to really do it on a on a broad scale  
make it financially uh attractive to recycle  
and somebody will find a way to make money at it  
and  
well there is a guy in dallas  
that's all he does  
he collects trash you know  
and  
yeah  
well he's he's out for cardboard  
i guess we're supposed to talk about what's being done about recycling  
well lots right  
finally  
well we have saved our newspapers for years and years   because the uh boy scouts   our boys have been involved in have uh had a huge recycling bin over at [resurrection] [lutheran] church  
and uh so we've done that for quite some time  
but since the price of paper has gone down  
like it's about a fifth of what it used to be  
so the boy scout troop quit doing it when the city took it over  
so now we just put ours out for the city of plano  
do you live in plano  
okay  
yeah  
right  
yes  
although just just about a week ago some of my volunteer mothers that uh work in the library for me said they hadn't gotten theirs  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
we used   to take ours there  
i know  
right  
right  
i'm really glad they do it  
uh yeah  
i do news mostly newspapers and uh plastic two liter diet coke bottles   and aluminum cans some  
but i don't use as many of those  
i guess the ones that are hard to convince yourself to do are the ones that you have to really that are really dirty that you have to wash out  
uh ha  
wasting all your time and effort and   putting it in there  
yeah  
yeah  
got your routine down  
yeah  
well i guess there are some places uh in the north in particular that uh have a real definite way of encouraging you to recycle  
because they charge you let's see they charge you for your garbage pick up by the weight  
so if you recycle things of course then you don't have all that weight in there  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
right  
yeah  
right  
probably going to throw them in your trash  
well there are places that take car batteries  
but i wonder if they would take  
i mean not that it would  
kind of a pain to you know drive over somewhere special just for that for two little tiny batteries  
but  
yeah  
that's true  
right  
that's true  
uh when i was home those few days around thanksgiving and the uh the truck came by well we all ran out to watch it because you know we'd never really seen it   pick up our stuff  
and one thing i thought was interesting was that the driver had something on his belt that he uh scanned across the little bar code   on our bin   as soon as he took the stuff  
and he just pulled this thing kind of out of his pocket and just you know scanned it  
so i don't know why what that was reading it for  
but uh  
they must be trying to keep track of you know who is doing it or what i guess  
i don't know  
another  
ooh for those who are really cooperating  
now that would encourage it  
sure  
sure  
but the garbage uh  
now there is just one garbage man that comes   on the truck instead of two  
so that's interesting  
uh also slightly off the subject but our our big green garbage thing got stolen  
uh_huh  
and we we called the city  
and uh they they brought us a new one  
and they did not charge us  
and they said that between three and four hundred have been stolen  
isn't that sad   you know  
and just  
oh and they must be   yeah really expensive  
i mean of course we were hoping we weren't we weren't going to have to pay for it you know  
but i mean what would somebody do with them  
yes  
right  
really  
what what do you do now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
okay  
yes  
i do  
yeah  
and i'm so glad when they brought out those recycling bins  
have you had yours now  
yeah  
oh that's why i asked you  
i guess it  
you know it does go in cycles  
and not everyone got theirs right away  
and i i was so [relieved] because i've been making a real [concerted] effort make you know recycling the aluminum and   the newspapers and even got into plastic because wal mart collected it  
and uh  
my garage was just getting overwhelmed  
and of course i didn't go weekly  
so it became quite a big   thing  
and uh  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i found out after washing out many a peanut butter jar that they're not a recycling number one or two  
uh ha  
so it was wasting a lot of time   yeah  
thinking i was safe in buying those jars as far as the environment was concerned  
but uh you know but it it's not that hard now that i've got this   system under control  
yeah  
uh uh_huh  
yeah  
i do find that i don't have as much to throw away   because   all the bulky things are are   being tossed in   with the recycling  
and uh i don't know what they could do more of exactly around here right now other than uh  
what are some of the things they don't recycle  
oh one thing i thought about the other day were batteries  
just everyday regular batteries   supposedly you know leak and and [contaminate]   the landfills  
and yet what am i going to do when i have a couple double a batteries to toss out  
and they don't take  
yeah  
that's what happens  
because  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but i think the city one could possibly look into that or something  
uh if they've got these bins for all the other little items  
i'm sure if people will have batteries uh you know quite often   to to toss out  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh is that right  
huh  
registering our garbage  
yeah  
wouldn't it be nice if you could get a credit back at the end of the year  
yeah  
well except i know it would just not be cost effective  
they've already got all this money out on hiring uh getting the trucks and hiring people to work them  
i'm sure they couldn't afford   that  
but  
uh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
oh it did  
gosh  
oh my goodness  
it is sad  
you know  
they paid for those things anyway  
or our taxes do  
uh_huh  
uh we do here  
uh see what do we recycle  
we they recycle  
they have bins  
and they also have centers where you can take aluminum cans and uh plastic bottles  
and i think that's all they have  
what about you guys  
uh_huh  
really  
for smashed cans  
uh_huh  
oh can you can you hold on for just a minute  
i'm going to try pressing one again to make sure   that i pressed it hard enough because okay just succeed  
oh okay  
well i guess i guess  
yeah  
okay  
well anyways you guys only get a penny a can  
well when you buy like uh canned drinks and stuff like that do they charge you for the deposit  
yeah  
exactly  
and so it's like they charge you for the deposit  
so when you turn in the cans unsmashed you're just like reimbursed  
type of thing  
that's sort of nice though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so you guys can actually get ahead  
but uh they have sort of like uh things that you you're not like reimbursed for or paid for  
like we can recycle uh clear glass brown glass green glass   uh and milk jugs and uh newspapers you know  
everyone does newspapers  
but that that kind of stuff  
but they they said they can't be smashed or else uh  
it doesn't fit in their little containers  
and they're not reimbursed by the the people who are over them or something  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
send it to this address  
no  
but uh let's see  
they said that how ways can encourage recycling uh  
yeah  
that's  
uh_huh  
as likely to do it  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
uh another thing i thought of i guess to recycle would be like clothes because i mean everybody gets rid of their clothes sometime or other  
and one way that we do it sort of in in iowa is that we can take some of our clothes to the [consignment] shops  
and that way you know you don't get near enough as as much as you bought it for  
but you you got the use out of it  
and what you're going to basically donate to a [goodwill] or whatever anyways you can get a little bit of money for  
and so   that's something that i've never  
i we're we're new to iowa  
so that's something that i hadn't you know looked into before  
but that's one way to sort of get money and still recycle i guess  
well do you do any recycling  
yeah  
oh  
well we uh  
there is a lot of things that you can recycle down here although the only thing i guess i wind up recycling religiously is uh aluminum cans  
but uh we've got a we've got a couple of different things uh places uh  
they're like [unattended] aluminum can [smashers]  
and you can go up there and and uh redeem  
we've got one that gives you like a penny a can  
so if you  
yeah  
well actually you have to give put them in there unsmashed  
and uh when you do that it it basically [crushes] them and then drops a penny down a little shoot  
sure  
okay  
okay  
well i heard it that i heard it that time  
uh no  
you probably get charged like a nickel   or something like that  
oh okay  
okay  
no  
they don't charge us that extra nickel  
yeah  
it it really is  
really what happens is we just get a penny a can back off the off the price if you want to think of it that way  
so when we get like uh uh a twelve pack then that's like twelve cents back  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
everybody does newspapers  
yeah  
well shoot maybe what we ought to do is start sending unsmashed uh [pepsi] cans and whatever   up there  
i i i tell you what what really works uh at least down here is if there is if there is some even some money basically to take care of the gas to recycle it you know what i mean then people tend to do it uh  
in other words taking care of the environment is is all well and good  
but if it's going to cost you to take care of the environment they're not quite as uh   likely to do it   as if uh if you get something back for it you know  
and uh so you know if there are some energy savings or if there is some significant savings anything that they can pass on to the consumer you know it kind of reminds me of using an a t m card you know to get money   or doing your banking  
you know if it's free people will use it  
if it costs them something then they're not as likely to use it  
you know  
but uh i know we had a problem down here with uh oil people taking oil out of their cars   and just putting it down the you know the the drain sewer  
and uh all that because there was  
apparently a lot of people you know every time they change the oil  
they just dump all the their old oil down there  
now they're starting to recycle that stuff  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know a lot of places they uh uh  
set  
you you got the topic right  
okay  
uh well where in dallas are you  
oh okay  
so you do do recycling there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are they going to later  
do you know  
uh_huh  
um  
well i'm i'm in dallas proper   in the city of dallas  
and i know they do have you know a pilot program going on  
but it's not here  
so they're not picking up anything  
so i mean we we collect everything  
we've got all these boxes in our garage for you know green glass and clear glass and plastic and everything  
well there's there's a couple places  
unfortunately we can't find a place that will take everything  
uh there's a lot of places to take like the plastic uh shopping bags   like most of the grocery stores  
and there's a wal mart nearby that takes almost everything  
i can't remember what it is they don't take  
and the library will take glass  
so we end up you know  
on the weekend we pack it all in the car  
and   and as we go places we oh wait we can drop the glass off you know  
drop things off one at a time  
but uh and it's kind of disappointing i mean  
i would even be happy if they just had one you know one place where you could do everything  
you know it would still be more convenient than what we have now  
um  
where is that  
oh  
i'm pretty far north  
i'm not i'm i'm i'm just i'm north of addison actually  
so i'm i'm really  
i'm i'm in dallas but only technically  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've seen those  
yeah  
yeah  
well you get something  
uh  
we used to do that  
but again that's another stop  
and it doesn't take plastic bags and and all that sort of thing  
but uh i think that you know i heard that it was going well in the pilot area wherever that is  
and   so hopefully they'll do it soon  
that would be good because we have two trash pick ups a week  
and where i grew up we only had one a week  
and that was certainly sufficient  
so if they just do  
one of them will be trash  
and the alternate time would be recyclables  
that would be great  
so  
uh_huh  
oh  
um  
right  
yeah  
do you have to uh sort the paper and take out the glossy pages and that that sort of thing  
or do they take the whole thing  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
let me guess  
you work at t i  
right  
so do i  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
well and they take cans now too   which is great  
well our department used to collect the cans anyway for the christmas tree project  
and   in fact we got this past year we got all of our money for the christmas tree because we saved cans for the entire year  
and it worked out really well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
because we would get it  
okay  
yeah  
i'm in richardson  
yeah  
richardson has uh well they have a newspaper pick up once a week supposedly if it's not raining  
and they also have a couple of areas where you can take uh cans plastic and paper to uh you know dump them off there if you don't uh want to wait and have a pick up least of paper  
but they don't pick up the other items  
they don't pick up cans or the   plastic  
i'm not sure  
they only started to do the newspaper uh late last year  
just kind of like a trial basis   and see how it goes so i don't know if they're going to pick up the other things  
what about you  
uh_huh  
um  
oh  
where do you take them  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
one of the people from my department i think used to take a lot of the stuff to a recycling center that was for the benefit of the dallas shelter  
i think it was   closer to downtown  
uh she's not here anymore  
but uh yeah  
oh  
yeah  
well sometimes we take our uh we always keep our aluminum cans  
and a lot of times they take them over to one of these can banks  
you don't get too much money back  
i figure it pays for the gas to take my cans over there  
but normally i collect oh like three trash bags full  
and i take them over to that can bank  
and it's more fun just to kind of like crunch the cans   in the can bank  
don't get too much money for them  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i'm disappointed sometimes they're not always consistent in picking up those papers you know  
i seem to put them out there   on wednesday  
and like sometimes they come by  
sometimes they don't  
i'm not really sure why they're not always consistent in that  
but i could certainly have uh three bins out there for you know plastic and   and tin and paper whatever they were going to uh separate into and and have them pick it up on on one of the two days per week  
that would be easy  
you're not supposed to have like the coupons in there  
uh or you're not supposed to put magazines in there  
and you can't take newspapers  
now at work uh you know we have changed our recycling  
at first they were kind of [finicky] about what kind of paper you could recycle  
and not too long ago they finally decided if it's anything that's paper and tears you can throw it in there because at first   they said  
yeah  
at first they said   they said no telephone books  
you know well that's stupid  
and then they   said no newspapers  
well in the my department everybody gets the wall street journal  
there was like a lot of paper coming out of our department that wasn't recyclable  
so i thought that was pretty good to expand upon it  
say  
yeah  
i still put my cans in with the cans  
i mean i don't want it with paper  
somehow that just seems weird to me  
oh  
ooh  
well we had the one person who used to take things to the dallas shelter  
i think that's what that was called  
she collected she used to collect from the whole department  
but she took them all down to that dallas shelter place  
i wish i could remember the whole name of that place  
but it's a charity for the benefit of this shelter  
and yeah  
she she used to collect them from everybody in the department  
she'd go up and down with her little bag   collecting   from everybody  
i'm from dallas  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um well i don't know dallas  
in richardson does  
um they started with newspapers and uh of course aluminum cans and   and bottles and plastic  
i didn't know there were different types of plastic though  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh okay  
yeah  
it seems to be made out of something different  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
lunch bags  
right  
yeah  
they do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh no  
yeah  
yeah  
wow  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
they'll run out of space before long  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
they don't even know that paper comes from trees now  
so  
how do you grow paper  
uh_huh  
and how do you grow aluminum  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
um are you from this area  
okay  
i'm in garland  
so  
well i'm in dallas right now  
but i live in garland  
um well i don't know if you know  
but garland has got a real big recycling center that in fact we went to it yesterday  
you drive up  
and you take the stuff out of your trunk  
and they have different bins for the different materials like clear   glass and colored glass and plastics  
and uh they have all the different plastics separated by those little [symbols] on the bottom  
that's pretty neat  
my my daughter is four  
and she's real interested in recycling  
so we're we're trying to promote that because she thought we just put them in a special trash can and threw them away  
but we went to the recycling center to show her what we actually did with them  
uh does dallas have a curbside recycling program yet  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
um like soda bottles are one one type of plastic  
and milk jugs are one type of plastic  
you can  
it's got little  
most of the recyclable containers have the little symbol on the bottom with the with the arrows around it   that tells whether it's a one or a two or a three  
it's it's just different kinds of plastics like the clear plastic is different from that [milky] looking plastic  
and that's that's what the different types are  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
i i know there's a long scientific name  
but it's like [polytechnochloride] and all that fun stuff  
um i i don't know if they do it all over  
but our kroger does a newspaper recycling every saturday  
you can drive up  
and they have one of the [clerks] up there no the bag boys out there um that will take the papers newspaper out of your car  
and they'll put it in their little bin  
and they do the recycling  
i mean they collect the newspapers and their their plastic grocery bags   which i think is pretty neat  
that's something since we all seem to have an abundance of those plastic grocery bags  
i know we use them for trash can liners and   a lot of other things  
yeah  
in fact i have one today  
the only problem with those is sometimes they get holes in the bottom  
it's like whoops there goes my chips  
okay  
fine  
now i  
in fact did you happen to see twenty twenty the other night  
they did a program  
or one of their articles was on recycling  
and uh it was actually on a town that has a dump that they charge other cities or towns to come in and dump their trash there  
they have made so much money from that that they built they bought a brand new fire engine  
and when the fire engine was delivered the fire house wasn't big enough so they bought a new or built a new one   and paid for it in cash with the money that they've earned from this landfill  
they have built up one mountain  
they call it mount [trashmore]  
they built up one mountain covered it with grass and put ski [lifts] on it  
and in the winter they put snow on it  
and they charge to ski on it  
so the city gets the money from that  
they built a golf course at the bottom  
and they get the money from that  
i's like  
that's  
it's a it's [riverview] ohio or some place up there  
but it was i thought it was a pretty neat idea  
they i mean their city hall looked better  
it was nicer than [dallas']  
and they only have fourteen thousand people in the city  
and they like the trash  
so  
well okay  
but i thought it was pretty neat  
it it would be nice if more communities could do that  
but you have to know from beginning  
and you have to have the space to do it  
and  
yeah  
see that's  
well they're already planning a second mountain  
so they're going to get going to be called the twin peaks  
i was like uh_huh go back two t v shows  
this it would be nice if more communities could get really involved in recycling  
it  
i know i've got a two year old and a four year old  
and that's  
my daughter thinks that any time she sees newspapers bundled up they're being recycled  
so it's like well no honey  
so that like  
so that was one reason we went to show her what people did with their their stuff when they recycled it   and try to explain well yeah you melt down the cans  
and you make them into new things  
and you get the paper all wet  
and you make it into new paper  
and that's fun trying to explain that to a four year old  
um so do you all go ahead  
well yeah  
she  
that was her next question was how do you grow paper  
was like well from trees   um that's why you have to cut down trees and why you have to plant more trees  
yeah  
exactly  
well let's see um  
we really don't  
but and then she was like well what do you do with the glass  
well you crunch it up real small  
and then you melt it down  
well what if it breaks  
well okay  
it it it was an interesting weekend trying to explain all that fun stuff to her  
but at least she knows that that is something that people need to be doing  
and she got our baby sitter to start recycling her newspapers and cans because that's all she talked about  
so i guess what  
well i definitely think that we need to start recycling  
i think it has got to be an individual responsibility until  
i think if we wait uh which is happening until somebody says we have to do it   it is going to be to late  
i have heard reports around here that the landfills will be full by the year two thousand  
and that is not too far away  
but i don't know how it is there  
it is very difficult here even if you care like i do to do much  
i take my paper  
i can take plastic and paper bags back to the grocery store  
and i can take plastic like milk cartons or if they have water in them  
and there are some fire stations i can take newspapers to  
and that is very inconvenient cause i have to wait until i have enough of them to make the trip worthwhile  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it is real hard to find a spot  
and then i don't know if you note even doing that the amount of trash we throw away is incredible  
bottles  
glass  
that cannot be it could be recycled  
but there is no place to  
no  
we have a pilot program in arlington going on i think in the north part of the city where they are have people people separate the garbage as the trash as they put it out  
and i think that is what it is going to have to come to where we are just forced to  
yeah  
i think so  
just because they have to   you know  
right  
uh_huh  
and i think it is going to come to that because some people will just not go to the  
it's it's trouble for me to do what i do  
i mean i am willing to do it  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
it is very difficult  
like our garage is always full of sacks of newspapers  
and so i don't know  
i think there needs to be more places  
and also i have a real strong opinion  
in iowa the state i am from   uh i believe it has gone up to a dollar now  
every time you buy a container no matter what it is whether it is glass whether it's a beer can or a fifth of whiskey or a pop or whatever you pay ten cents for it  
and then you take it back to the store  
and you get it back  
you are forced to  
and uh you also don't see the litter there  
people just  
it makes it worthwhile to take it back  
and i've just started drinking a new water called clearly canadian  
i don't know if you've tried it  
and they have on the it's five cents that they pay five cents  
and it even shows the states that  
yeah  
well some of them are five some are ten cents  
i am looking at it right now  
texas is not one of them see  
so i have to throw them away cause there is no place to take glass  
uh_huh  
do they save like the paper they they use at the office paper  
good  
because there is a lot of waste there isn't there  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
something else i think we do can do is support companies that encourage  
like i have decided downy fabric [softener] now has where you can buy a little carton  
you add  
well i image everybody else will start doing that sooner or later  
but i am going to stick with [downey] because they were first  
and i want them to have my business  
and i think packaging could be done much better  
there is so much plastic  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
and i think that it's just people have got to be aware  
unfortunately there are a lot of people that just don't care  
and they don't want to think about it  
and uh i just look at it i don't want my grandchildren looking at me and saying why didn't you do something  
you know i want to feel like i at least tried  
and i don't know  
it just may [overwhelm] us here when we run out of places to put it  
then we will be forced to  
it may be too late  
very little  
that's another thing that  
see there were no  
i know amway  
i use a couple of things from amway that it says this is [burnable] material  
well that doesn't do me any good because i don't have any place to burn it  
yeah  
and then just like the glass bottles that it says on the bottle i can get ten cents but not in texas  
and there is no place i can take glass to  
so i still throw away a lot of glass  
yeah  
and then the packaging thing really grips me  
you buy some  
and it's got a great big piece of cardboard and a great big piece of plastic  
okay  
so now what are your opinions on recycling  
yeah  
yeah  
i have heard that too  
uh_huh  
well see i started saving newspapers  
and i would take a ton of them  
and uh that's i can't remember where i went to take them  
but they wouldn't take them  
oh i know  
there is no really recycling facilities  
i think that is a good idea  
besides well like a law or whatever  
that's how it is   in new york isn't it  
uh_huh  
and you get [ticketed] if you don't do it right  
yeah  
plus you have to have a place to store all of it  
and see i live in an apartment  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh so that way it kind of forces you to recycle  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
i have seen them  
uh_huh  
that take them back  
is texas one of them  
yeah  
no  
i don't think that there is enough being done  
now i work at j c penny at their corporate headquarters  
and we have a paper recycling program that uh is company wide  
and i do the recycling for that  
yeah  
yeah  
and i know there is a lot of computer paper   that you can't use  
but uh we use to have uh  
i mean i don't even remember how much money that they've uh i mean the money that they've made from the recycling program  
they have donated it to [charities]  
i mean   they have made a substantial amount of money from it  
yeah  
yeah  
well i know  
you see some of the stuff  
and then when they come out with the new things you are like well why didn't you think of that before  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
do they not ever i mean i don't know that much do they not ever burn trash or anything like  
then that's pollution  
yeah  
i know  
i guess you run into the pollution factor  
yeah  
uh  
it is really sad  
what do you do there in lubbock as far as uh recycling is concerned  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
what would be more efficient about it  
what  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
i see  
yeah  
i i i uh was going to say cause i know i have right here a trash can for trash and a trash can for for paper on it   you know  
and uh if   if i have a if i i printed up something that i don't need it just chunk it in the in the paper  
that's true  
certainly that's a good idea  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well uh as far as t i is concerned i'm not sure  
uh and i have heard you know uh in residential situations  
i live in a dorm  
and i have heard in residential situations uh like in plano   uh that they are doing uh stuff like having recycle picked up   where uh the city uh i guess the sanitation department uh as part of their responsibility picks up uh the recycled items as well you know the plastics and the paper uh and aluminum  
and uh the only responsibility of the of the [patron] is to separate them  
and then the the  
uh i guess the department takes them and and does what they do with them  
and it doesn't cost the [patron] anything  
doesn't really cost the uh department  
right  
they don't pay they don't pay for the recycled items  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what kind of services do you have there in lubbock as far as  
uh where can you take your recycle items  
i i lived in abilene for a uh  
i went to school there at abilene christian  
and i  
it was so hard to uh  
you know if you   you wanted to recycle you newspapers it was impossible  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you tend to buy more recycled items that if something uh the pack says recycled and something else doesn't  
do  
would you tend to chose the one that does  
or  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
well you know they actually started  
and i assumed it was t i wide uh  
they they started putting out at least recycling bins for the paper  
uh i've you know  
either computer paper or different types of paper  
i've had some ideas on how i think they could probably do it a little less [expensively] and accomplish the same purpose  
but i i guess i need to put it on paper and turn it in  
uh  
well the way they have you know they have boxes located at certain areas throughout a [module] or down the hall  
or   a lot of people aren't going to get up walk out of their offices and go there  
you know where i use to work we had what we called tree boxes  
that's just what we called them  
and they were recycled cardboard  
they were eight and a half by eleven  
and you set it by your desk and you know as you got rid of a piece of paper you stuck it in there  
and when it filled up you called you know facilities whoever to come pick it up  
and they brought you another box  
so not only is it you know  
i think more people would take advantage of it and use it uh  
i think you save a lot of the cleaning [service's] time and effort and money that we are paying for them to to empty the trash cans and combine it and bundle it and things like that now when it could all be done in one step   kind of type thing  
so  
right  
if  
right  
but somebody still has to collect all that   and bundle it together  
and whereas if you had a box that pretty soon it got full you close the box it's already bundled it's already done for you  
so you're saving a lot of time and effort  
i just need to put it on paper and   i guess recommended it to somebody and see if they thinks it's feasible  
so uh what else do they do in the dallas area  
uh_huh  
um  
anything extra  
that sounds good  
there's  
i i've been wanting to put like two of three bins like right out my garage door where you know from the kitchen where you know you can throw cans in one or the glass in the other  
or the the even uh  
there are areas that can recycle the the tin cans like your   you know vegetable things come in  
and uh so i i've not done that  
but that's kind of what i want to set up so because we do go through aluminum cans you know  
that's probably the one we use most  
uh but  
find a place  
well uh uh they they do have facilities for recycling the newspapers aluminum cans those are the two major items  
you know we can take oil like car oil recycled oil to  
they have uh uh dump areas like at the fire departments   throughout town  
uh i don't know that they yet have the facilities here to do the tin cans  
uh i think they can do the plastics like the liter bottles   things like that  
uh but i i don't know  
i know for sure though they have the newspaper and the aluminum can and then the oil at the fire departments  
so  
i do that  
i think people are becoming more aware   you know of of the waste  
and you know i i like to see you know  
you drive through burger king now and the bags are recycled paper  
and you know so you know i feel like people are more aware of it or becoming more aware of it  
you know maybe it's making an impact  
i'm not as good about searching something out like that  
but if i am there and the choice is there   i would probably take the recycled product  
so you know that's just where i probably need to be a little more responsible citizen wise you know looking or searching those out because you figure if we as the citizens do that then the manufactures and [producers] will start packaging it that way  
so uh you know they are getting away from the styrofoam  
hello ann  
uh the other day i attended a conference here at utah state university on recycling  
and uh i was kind of interested to hear cause they had some people from the e p a and lots of different places  
and uh they had basically decided that there is going to be a real problem here within a few years on solid waste  
well it's not too new  
oh they really didn't propose any solutions  
actually they were the guy was pretty negative about the things that the government was doing even though he was from the e p a  
but he had a lot of uh facts to to give and uh things like how many solid waste plants were being shut down  
and and uh one of the most interesting things that he was talking about was recycling of of news print  
he was talking about uh the city of new york and how they went and collected all this news print  
and they could sell it for a while  
they were able to sell it for some amount per ton  
and now at this stage of the game where they have gotten into recycling they've collected so much news print that they have to pay to have it hauled away  
yeah  
we're doing some here in in cash valley the community here  
there's uh we've actually got a kind of a nice set up  
we've got a couple of plants here that actually take uh recycled paper and shred it and spray it with chemical treatment so that it's not a fire hazard   and make it into insulation  
and they can actually use as much recycled paper as the community can get to them because they are actually buying it and shipping it in from outside  
so one of the real keys it sounds like to getting recycling for uh paper or something like that to go is to get some sort of business to actually want it once you have collected it  
uh_huh  
and there was a paper presented at this conference from a guy from alabama  
and he was kind of hired to do a study by two departments for the government  
one was like environmental protection  
and the other one was oh i can't remember what  
but the basic idea it was presented to him was how can we [maximize] the amount of energy that we can get back from recycling and minimize the volume of stuff that we are putting into our landfill  
and uh the solution that he came up with for plastics and it was really quite amazing  
he says well the best thing to do with plastics is to burn them  
he came to the conclusion plastics is actually one of the biggest problems in landfills cause it's it's low weight but it's high volume so it takes up a lot of space  
and there's almost no energy there's very little energy value in actually doing a lot of the recycling  
but there is a lot of energy in it if you can burn it and use it produce electricity  
so his solution was to burn plastic collect it and burn it  
yeah  
and it's more than even paper or something like that  
there is more energy in it per pound or whatever  
well that was he didn't deal with that  
he just said burn it  
he didn't talk about cleaning it up or anything like that  
so it's not very practical  
yeah  
well real interesting  
uh not too much  
uh i got a bit  
actually  
hello chuck  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i didn't think that was a new [revelation]  
right  
so what what is the e p a recommending now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
that's a that's a common problem though  
that it seems that has happened in dallas as well as new york  
and i try to recycle all of the newspapers that come to my house  
and after a while i just quit taking the newspaper because i couldn't recycle it anymore which isn't good for business on the other end either i suppose  
uh_huh  
right  
well that's good  
right  
there has to be uh a reuse for it  
i mean that's why they recycle  
the one i think is the most interesting is with the recycled bottles and all that uh the industry seems to be doing with the recycled [polymers] uh everything from uh waste baskets to carpet to the no stick i mean the sticky slide rugs under the carpet  
and uh i think they are even putting it in the [roadways] these days  
and they're making clothes now that are recycled  
like the recycled plastic coke bottles and and milk cartons and things like that  
uh_huh  
oh really  
right  
huh  
well it's carbon  
so that makes sense  
like a carbon fuel of some sort  
but   what   what about emissions  
oh  
okay  
no  
well it's interesting  
i bet that was a good day at the yeah conference then  
did it change anything for you  
uh_huh  
well here in saskatoon uh much the same thing  
there is no curb pick up of uh any of the recycled products  
uh we're in a community of about one hundred and eighty thousand people  
uh there are areas where we could uh  
actually we have a couple of the uh handicapped societies types of places where the uh one they do as just a recycling operation and then others they collect the paper and ship it to other [retailers]  
so uh we are able to uh have drop off bins for news papers and cardboard and that kind of thing  
and then there are there's a uh deposit program on plastic and glass containers well primarily soft drink bottles  
and so we are able uh to take it to one of the uh rehabilitation centers  
and then they recycle the containers  
they refund the deposit which is anywhere from five to fifteen cents a container  
and then  
right  
on the on primarily on soft drink pops and that kind of thing  
and uh so they [induce] recycling of plastic and glass soft drink containers  
uh we do have one of the scrape metal dealers that will accept tin and aluminum cans as well  
and actually the recycler there is a deposit on aluminum pop cans and beer cans and so the recycler uh with the handicapped group will also accept those  
so uh it's fairly fairly extensive  
but then again it's uh it's the initiative of the individual person because there is no coordinated pick up by the city  
well actually there's there's the opportunity for both  
generally the uh the handicapped group takes care of the things that  
actually the government has placed the deposit which is the [inducement] to recycle the bottle so that you get your money back  
and then the recycler run by the handicapped society pays back the cost of that deposit  
and then i and then they in turn will get some money from the [bottlers] and from the the people that do the canning of the pop and the beer as as well  
oh yeah  
uh i guess partly because of our climate  
here in saskatoon at least the majority of central uh  
well i want to say central canada  
but central canada tends to referred more to ontario and quebec  
but uh we don't have much of a situation where we might call them homeless people  
we certainly have a fair number of people that are on welfare and unemployment insurance and that kind of thing  
uh there's psychological pressure against [employing] people to do that kind of thing although uh scouts and hockey teams and ball teams those kinds uh regularly do bottle drives where they go around in various neighborhoods and collect the bottles at individual homes  
they have done it some uh  
but we have actually quite an extensive network of collecting news papers  
they are actually at virtually all of the shopping centers like the shopping malls  
there are several containers where the group called cosmopolitan industries collects  
or people can drop their used news papers and other papers in the bins  
and then the bins are collected  
uh some of the  
hey steve  
uh they just uh they just started a recycling program here i think  
actually this is my first experience with recycling program  
but uh instead of just like tossing everything away which i always felt bad about uh i am starting to split split stuff up  
the only disadvantage is that they don't pick it up at the curb  
they make me drive it like a mile down the road and spit it out down there  
what are they doing up there  
the the deposits only on like drink stuff  
okay  
okay  
oh okay  
so did they  
you're giving are you giving these products to the handicapped group  
and the handicapped group is getting the uh the money  
or or are you or are they some home distributing the funds back to you  
oh okay  
that's very cool  
you know there's a i heard about a similar program in new york city where uh a thing called like homeless incorporated or something like that  
but what they do is employ uh homeless i think mostly men but homeless people to uh go out and collect all the recyclable cans  
and and i think it's mostly cans  
there may be bottles as well but like beer cans soda cans and what not  
and they uh bring them up to a one one centralized location and uh are able to collect the money from the various beer and and soda manufacturers and uh and get more money to these people that desperately need it  
yeah  
do they do it with news papers as well  
huh  
i don't believe that we're  
the recycling program here is just terrible  
i mean it's hard to find places to go  
i mean kroger does a couple things  
they i don't think they do they do newspapers  
yeah  
the one in florida is so cool because they pick up everything  
they pick up newspapers and uh you know milk jugs and aluminum and tin cans you know like soup comes in and stuff  
they pick up everything  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know it  
i know it  
it piles up  
i just don't know  
i just don't know  
and now they have like bins and stuff that are a little more convenient because mean until seven o'clock you got to pay to park at the student center  
you can't really unload all your stuff  
uh_huh  
i know it  
i know it  
oh yeah  
the  
uh_huh  
well i mean it's real  
you ought to because the the the farmer's market recycles absolutely everything  
and since we go there all the time i mean  
probably at all  
oh by the way may name's julie  
hi  
i'm from atlanta  
neat  
i just think that everybody ought to do it  
the only thing i know that you can recycle is milk jugs  
yeah  
oh yeah  
they have uh  
uh what i what i used to uh  
now that i don't go to the grocery store much it's kind of [moot]  
but i used to just save up the ones that i got one time   and then go and hand them to them the next time and use them over and over  
but also most places like big star does  
and i'm not sure if kroger does or not  
but  
yeah  
and they they have like little little boxes that you can put your old bags in  
can bring them in  
i know it  
i know it  
it really is a small   [hostile] planet  
did you know that  
no  
really not  
did you know that like something like fifty percent of the world's landfills is like paper   filled with paper  
huh  
well it is it is though  
it is because they  
well they do treat paper with chemicals  
like yellow paper you know   takes something like twenty times as long to decompose  
you know you can bury a piece of yellow paper  
it will still be there in a couple of weeks  
yeah  
it will be whole  
you'll be able to read   off of it  
yeah um  

well white [paper's] bad too  
they they treat it too  
i'm sure that's fine  
i'm sure  
maybe we ought to just start [carving] in stone again  
maybe  
yeah  
you think  
i don't know  
well i mean   i think we've kind of you know  
i mean everybody everybody   everybody has a computer  
we would no longer need   paper at all  
i would love that  
so what do you think about uh recycling programs in atlanta julie  
i don't know  
there's there's big bins out there  
i don't know if they ever get  
i i really don't know what the details are  
there should be someplace where you could call and find out  
as a matter of fact i'm pretty sure there's a place you can call and find out the closest you know thing to you  
but i think there should be some kind of curbside service  
that's the only way i could really  
uh_huh  
during the summers like the around where i live the uh homeless people  
i mean they all have like shopping [carts] and   stuff  
and they're go around and collect cans   and aluminum and stuff  
and so we used to just save them up  
and then they'd come around  
and we'd give them to them  
but when  
during the winter time i think they they move south or something  
so i don't do that anymore  
and the the recycling at georgia tech like that uh outside the uh student center   they never empty those things  
they just overflow  
so what's a guy to do   you know     i asked myself  
really  
huh oh yeah  
that's true  
hadn't thought about that  
that is very inconvenient  
inconvenient even  
but uh  
so you do recycle don't you  
yeah  
i'm kind of i'm kind of bad about it  
if i if see a if i see a pile of cans or bottles or something   i'll throw it in there  
but i don't really i don't ever take anything  
uh_huh  
but wait  
i've never seen you before  
who are you  
yeah  
my name's bill  
well  
hi  
me too  
crazy  
uh well is there anything else you'd like to share me about your recycling philosophy julie  
do they do  
like what about like uh  
what kind of plastic stuff can you recycle do you know  
really  
what about like those grocery bags  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they'll ask you whether you want bags or paper or plastic  
uh  
those petroleum products are going to kill us  
the [hostile] planet i think   julie  
the petroleum pretty much i mean those petroleum products i think are the big uh you know   the great [satan] of the recycling  
um  
paper just seems so [innocuous]  
paper doesn't seem threatening at all you know  
it comes from trees  
how can it be bad  
they treat it with chemicals or something  
why can't trees break down  
i don't get it  
yep  
oh  
really  
huh  
i'm going to switch   from those yellow legal pads then  
i'm glad you told me that because i use those at work where i work  
and uh   but i can just   forget that from now on  
i'm going i'm going to switch to the white ones  
well what about uh [papyrus] you know made out of you know [bamboo] stuff from the   from the   banks of the [nile]  
you think so  
[tablets]  
i think we should just abandon the you know the written word   altogether you know  
what do you think  
kind of radical i know  
but  
that's true  
everyone had a two way wrist watch t v on their wrist   like uh dick tracy  
okay  
so i guess it starts recording now  
okay  
i don't know really know that much about the recycling in this area that we're in  
we live in the [saginaw] area  
uh_huh  
and i'm not real familiar with uh anything that  
i  
fact as far as i know the school doesn't have any kind of programs or anything out here and uh or the grocery store or anything   in this area  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
that is pretty good  
i'm we're originally from another state  
and i know in the state we were from that they did that similar type thing  
the city brought ought you know set separate trash cans  
and you separated your stuff  
and you put it in there  
and they took it you know  
i don't really know  
i don't really know  
they they started after we moved down here  
and so   i i'm not really familiar  
i just know that uh my in laws up in up in oklahoma that's how they do you know they pick it up  
but i don't know if they get a get anything back on it  
or do you get money for it  
oh  
really  
right  
right  
and now now most of them are [throwaway]  
i think now they're a lot more expensive than that  
uh i bought some cokes the other day in the the little bottles   you know  
and i think the bottles were like i know they were at least ten cents apiece  
i started to see at home  
i was like god how much were those bottles you know  
and it was they come in like uh eight and and eight and ten packs you know   instead of six packs  
and uh and they were like it was like two dollars and something for the bottles  
you know i was like god [almighty]  
it costs more for the bottles than it did for the cokes  
in the  
right  
oh really  
of green glass  
well out in this area they really don't have anything  
now i know that like [minyard's]   and places like that around like arlington and fort worth and a lot of those grocery stores they have like four different bins out front   uh different colors for different things and and things like that  
but i i do know some of these places were doing that  
and they discontinued them because people were coming and dumping their trash in them  
yeah  
yeah  
more than it's worth  
right  
well who wants to clean their junk before they throw it away  
right  
uh yeah  
it was nice talking to you  
i have no idea how long this is supposed to last or anything  

is that it  
okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
and i i guess i'll do this for i was doing this for actually i was going to do it for my son so that he could uh he he's in high school so that he could make some money  
uh but then it has my name on it  
so i'm like okay  
i'll sit down here and call it  
oh are you  
oh that's interesting  
that's nice  
well  
thank you  
bye  
okay  
[saginaw]  
really  
the  
we live in plano  
and they started off recycling by uh putting the  
i think at each wal mart they had some recycling dumpsters and things like that which now  
i guess the uh city is has bought the big green trash cans  
and uh we they have a recycling truck that comes around now  
and you separate your glass and paper   and uh aluminum  
and you set it out  
and they pick it up  
and it it works real neat  
they seem to be having a real good response  
so  
did they did they like on bottles did they give you a so many cents back for   for cans  
even or  
yeah  
no  
i just i noticed it  
iowa and other cities like that it's a nickel per aluminum can  
so you don't see too many thrown out around the streets   or even bottles  
you know all kinds of bottles they they they really charge people to i guess when you purchase them and and then when you turn them back in  
i i remember the old days as a kid where bottle was a nickel  
right  
so maybe that's one thing they can do  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
that was my brother's first job in a grocery store  
he was in the bottle area  
it's pretty dangerous out there you know when they fall over  
but   but it's uh it's quite  
they say that the green glass now that there's a big glut   of green   the green glass  
yeah  
it's amazing  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
it's  
i notice the plastic have sort of [faded] away the milk jugs  
it it's  
people just  
they they really don't  
uh there's too much labor involved i guess to separate the stuff  
it's  
i don't know  
it it can be  
it's not as easy   selecting you know clean junk as they say  
that's right  
that's right  
it's like washing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher  
we all do it  
well it was nice talking to you  
oh i think i think two or three minutes is   fine  
yeah  
right  
well we're doing it for a church choir  
so  
yeah  
so  
well thank you  
bye bye  
okay  
what is your uh community uh currently doing with regard to recycling  
uh_huh  
well that's more than we have up here in massachusetts  
some some local communities are very active in that uh in that respect  
and they do have bins set up  
but i live in a a metropolitan area  
and uh they're not uh too inclined to do something as aggressive as that  
uh_huh  
i i know a lot i think a lot of uh the the issues with regard to recycling are that uh people have to be motivated to do to do something like that because it does take extra effort  
whether  
and and i think that and i know massachusetts has  
a bottle bill was passed  
and we have had a bottle bill for quite a few years now  
and the majority of the incentive in recycling bottles probably believe it or not is just to get the extra nickel at the uh the store and not uh  
that's the majority of people that i know of anyways  
where people aren't really you know [eco] conscious it's just the fact that it's something they have to do  
and i'm not going to throw a bottle away  
it's like throwing a nickel away  
that type of thing  
but uh people need to be more conscious of it  
yeah  
it didn't it it took awhile for that bill to be passed up here as far as recycling bottles and cans  
uh and and matter of fact i think it took like three tries for it to go through  
but and it's been pretty successful  
and people notice it as far as uh highways being uh you know  
people would have a drink of soda  
instead of throwing out the window they they keep the bottle  
so it's it's been a ecologically sound policy and you know as as far as recycling your bottles in terms of trash and so forth  
but more importantly it's recycling reusable materials back into uh manufacturing  
and that's the big thing i think that they try to promote  
yeah  
that's a good idea  
yeah  
there definitely has to be a motivation factor  
and i know that at where i work  
i work for a defense contractor  
and there's a big push on for recycling uh paper materials you know computer output paper and also to decrease the amount of uh styrofoam usage because of the uh the process involved in styrofoam and and the whole [eco] issue and that  
and and they're very proactive  
and uh matter of fact they give you discounts if you use uh china wear rather than uh styrofoam stuff  
so so it's incentives like that that get people people more conscious of it  
i think that's that's what they need to do be more proactive like that  
yeah  
they they just  
matter of fact that that reminded me of an article i saw in the  
the local schools you could send your phone book to your uh to with your kid to school  
and what they'll do is they'll recycle it  
because there was an article or a story done awhile ago that uh trash uh the telephone books are the type of thing that don't break down over a long period of time  
a guy went to a a landfill dug down five feet and and pulled up a phone book from like nineteen sixty  
because they don't they don't [degrade] over such a period of time  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
uh basically they're just uh having various recycling uh bins uh located for uh trash pickup  
well here they and  
uh live in an apartment complex  
and they only have one set of recycling bins one or two sets as opposed to a set at each of the dumpsters  
so a lot of the people who live up front don't bother to recycle because you know it's too far to carry the stuff to the other bins  
right  
they   here they're trying to push through a bill  
and a lot of people are against it  
and it's going to create a lot more work for the uh the stores that sell you know sodas and stuff  
because they want to implement a refund on cans and on plastic bottles and everything  
right  
i think here if they uh instead of just you know requiring that you put put out the trash and stuff if they could get some kind of rebate those people who do put the stuff out uh you know and separate it have lower collection fee or something may   encourage   people to separate  
uh i know uh i believe it was last year that they actually collected the old phone books  
uh usually have them come from you know projects to collect old ones  
usually just get dumped out with the trash  
and phone books are a large volume of annual trash  
well part of the problem with recycling them in the past has been the covers are made with a clay based paper  
they contain the glue and stuff  
and they used to have to take out all the uh pages and then cut the spine off to be able to recycle them  
now i think they've come up with some way of uh pulling the glue out  
well they just kicked it off down here in in sarasota county  
uh they had been doing it  
they started first in sarasota city   uh you know which makes up a pretty small portion of the county actually  
and uh they've got these i don't know what if you're familiar with sarasota county at all  
they've got these  
it's it's county wide program now  
and what they've done is they've broken everything down into garbage uh yard trash   plastic cans and glass   and then uh paper  
which in the paper it's just uh newspaper and [corrugated] cardboard   is the only thing you're supposed to put in there  
no [slicks] uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well you know uh i talked to this girl  
who uh she's a an an [acquaintance] of mine  
and and she's involved with uh-oh  
what is the name of that company  
it's not amway  
but it's the other big vitamin company [shaklee]  
okay  
and uh and and she's just [shaklee] crazy you know because it's her business and everything  
and uh you know and she asked  
we were talking one day  
and and she asked me a couple of questions you know  
and she and and what she said that that generally the problems that people have with being environmentally conscious is number one they don't want it to change their lifestyle   and and like you know especially make it anymore complicated or any extra work or anything  
which that's that's what recycling at home sorting does you know  
i mean it's a little extra work  
and uh it can actually turn out to be a lot of extra work because what they do what   they do here in sarasota county is they've got  
okay  
you put your garbage in a garbage bag  
and you set it out by the curb  
if you have yard trash you put your yard trash in some kind of container  
uh or you can have [bundles] up to a certain weight and certain [dimensions] tie them up and   put them by the curb  
well the plastic cans and glass they give you this little tub  
and it's about a foot and a half deep  
and it's about one by one and a half foot wide and long  
this is a little container  
and then they have another one the same size  
that one's red  
then they have a blue one the same size for the paper goods  
and so like you know you would have to rinse out your pop cans  
otherwise you got bees and ants  
and   you know and and if you've got uh food containers or anything like that it's a big problem  
so not only do you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
this is true  
this is true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they've got these large garbage cans that you can rent from the waste management company here   uh if you want to have a nice garbage can you know  
and it's on wheels  
and it's big  
yeah  
yeah  
i think in i think in the city they do  
but out here in the county you have to rent them  
and they just add it on to your water bill or something  
east of sarasota  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
about an hour   about an hour south of tampa  
uh yeah  
well i listen to this talk radio station down here  
and it's really  
they  
i don't if you ever listen to talk radio  
but   those guys they just kind of get into to [stewing] up trouble you know   with the callers and things like that  
but they get into some really good conversations sometimes you know  
and some of it sometimes it's serious  
and they have some good feedback and all that stuff  
and   from listening to that i kind of got an idea that i thought would be good with  
and this kind of fits into the uh the aid program  
the welfare program that's going on right now  
and it's like uh  
uh anyway we're supposed to talk about recycling basically what what your personal opinion is on it  
uh this is this is really for a speech research project they're doing  
so uh i don't know  
florida is pretty good about recycling isn't it  
oh they did  
uh_huh  
yeah  
not quite  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
okay  
oh that's that's good  
let me ask you this  
do they require you to [presort] it  
okay  
see that's something in minneapolis they're really strict on  
in terms of you got to put everything in its own little bag and really [presort] it really you know [tightly]  
but when i lived in orlando it's like you could put almost anything in there  
and they'd just sort it out for you  
it was really pretty good if you're lazy like i am  
so  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
it can  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
you got to tie them up and everything  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
it is you know a big   hassle  
yeah  
that's true  
i mean up here they give you one one of those containers  
and you put everything in it  
so it's like if if you use a lot of stuff you  
it's like well you know if you're a partying kind of guy and you drink you know like a couple of twelve packs maybe over the weekend   it's going to be hard pressed to to put all your recyclables in that one   place you know  
so it's   kind of a pain in the butt  
but uh i don't know  
that's definitely one thing they could do to make it easier is to just you know  
you have have those garbage people that make how every many make twenty thirty bucks an hour  
have them do a little bit of the sorting   you know and and maybe come up with a better system  
make it a little more convenient  
but  
yeah  
oh you can actually rent those  
okay  
that's interesting  
yeah  
up here the the city provides them  
kind of like  
oh okay  
so where exactly are you in terms of of like sarasota  
are you north of sarasota or   east  
okay  
and sarasota is on the west coast  
okay  
like south of tampa right  
okay  
i'm  
yeah  
that's  
okay  
um occasionally  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay uh let me see  
unfortunately we are not much into recycling  
we don't we don't do enough  
i know we don't so  
uh although lately i've been uh  
a friend of mine that i spend a lot of time with does recycle quite a bit  
and it's it's it's uh interesting to watch some of the things that she does  
and then she's almost had an impact on me uh where she doesn't say anything to me when she comes to my house but i can kind of tell it bothers her so   just unconsciously i've i've stopped buying a lot of uh uh paper plates and paper cups  
and i don't do that anymore  
i don't know why  
i just don't i just just from socializing with her  
so  
it really it there's not a whole lot  
there really isn't  
uh i know in my mother's neighborhood in san antonio each each house has  
they're they're given three baskets  
and they put them out on a certain day of the week  
and each uh home does participate  
but we really don't have anything uh close in this area that that do anything  
and and some of the communities that do the residents are having to pay to participate in it   which really doesn't make sense  
yeah  
that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
that's another thing  
you have to   go to different places to do that  
uh_huh  
but i heard that most homes that do participate in that are having to pay a monthly fee to do that which uh  
i don't know  
it just doesn't make sense to me  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's good  
that's good  
uh_huh  
huh  
no  
oh i didn't know that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
i i'm you know  
unfortunately garland doesn't have doesn't  
they don't i don't know they don't do anything like that  
or i you know i read those little slips that come in to your utility bills   or your uh garbage collection  
and they haven't you know talked about doing something like that  
she lives in garland  
and i'm not sure where what she does  
but she's uh-oh she's very heavy in that  
and she takes her own bags to the grocery store  
uh she has i i really don't think she has any paper products in her house  
uh and just a lot of things i've learned off of her that to start doing  
and she does make a lot of sense  
just her whole house is like wow  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh my little boy has watches a program that was really neat  
i sat and watched him  
you know the barney  
you know the little i don't know if you know the little character barney  
they had one uh on that kind of type of thing  
and how children can can do that  
and how to save water when you brush your teeth in water  
and it's really caught on  
and he's only four  
and he's really caught on  
and keep the refrigerator door closed and that kind of thing  
he's really caught on  
so that's really neat  
uh_huh  
how do you how uh is recycling done in your community  
is  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
right  
over here they uh have several private companies that you can take uh recycled   materials to  
but uh if you want to take them all to one place they have uh the first saturday of every month they have certain places that you can drop them off  
that's what i do  
uh and i i recycle aluminum glass uh newspapers  
so it's nice to have you know one place that you can take them all to instead of driving the glass to one place  
and   right  
right  
so it's so that's nice  
it would be it would be really nice if they uh came to the house to pick it up  
and they just were talking about a bill in [tucson] about that  
but uh uh it didn't go through  
right  
i guess what they what they were talking about here was uh was reducing the garbage collection in order to make that up   or something you know  
uh so i guess that's one option  
i guess one thing they're working on now is recycling plastics too  
like uh  
have you noticed that on the bottom of plastic goods they have this little number now that tells what   kind of plastic it is  
yeah  
i guess the problem with plastic is there's so many different kinds that you can't recycle  
you can't just throw all plastic into one recycler  
yeah  
so now they're like marking uh  
they're  
i don't know  
there's six seven eight different kind of plastics  
and they they mark on the bottom what kind it is  
so i guess that makes it easy to recycle  
and then they're   they're uh trying to make plastic goods that don't have a bunch of different plastics in them you know that are that are only made out of one kind of plastic  
so that   that makes it easier i guess  
right  
where does your friend go to to recycle  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess that's how it gets passed on you know when one person you hear   from another person  
and then uh and then you and then you pass it on  
it seems to be catching on uh slowly but surely i guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
that's cute  
that's neat  
yeah  
when you  
well when you start early i guess  
uh around here we have a program where uh we we put out the the we separate the bottles and the cans and the plastic stuff from the newspapers  
and we keep the newspapers in a in a  
they're collected twice a month and the trash and and this bottled stuff that is put in a in a little blue bin that's picked up and sorted out into a truck  
so they actually have about three passes at this collection one for   the regular trash one for the uh uh you know the bottles and cans and one for the newspapers  
no  
they they do that on the truck  
they separate them as they as they you know dump them  
and you know one guy comes around with his truck and and dumps it all in there  
and i think they're they're running out of uh you know  
the [sanitary] landfill i think uh is you know running out  
of course uh you being from new mexico you've probably been to washington especially if you're your present location  
you must have come to washington at least once  
my you've got a lot a a lot of nothing out there   you know  
they got  
i mean there there's got to be a [crevice] between two mountains that nobody gives a doggone about that you could you could use for landfill  
well what other what uh what unique things you think uh that you can do about it in in what in los [alamos]  
uh other other than nuking it  
well isn't that a that's a that's pretty uh upscale uh trash uh uh situation  
i don't think anybody around here would understand all the   all those exotic techniques you know getting   rid of the heavy metals  
huh  

huh  
well that's certainly uh you know uh getting into the swim of things  
i i think it should be it should go to the to the heart of the matter though and say okay guy  
you everybody gets you know five pounds of garbage that they can throw away you know  
uh but more than that every week uh you've got to pay by the pound  
i i think   i think people would be would get very very you know they'd be very careful about how they bought stuff  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well of course that uh you know those big trucks can can probably are far more efficient in packing than any kind of little household [compactor]  
sounds  
but i gather you do not separate uh the bottles and cans  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
i know  
not only have i come to washington but uh i find it very amusing that uh the thing that was just instituted here is very similar  
that is we also have blue bins  
we also separate newspapers from all of the other stuff which goes into the bin and gets separated in the truck and uh landfill space is in deed the driving factor here  
and in fact uh despite all of our open space out here landfill space is still uh very hard to come by  

ah  
but if somebody can make a regulation about it they will  
well uh  
yes  
other than nuking it  
um in fact los [alamos] uh has uh done a fair amount of research uh in recycling things in general  
um it it involves for instance uh creating biological [organisms] which can remove heavy elements like [selenium] and [barium] and uh other things from uh waste material in general and uh and [purify] the waste of specific uh uh nasty elements  
and   the thing that just was in the local news bulletin was somebody has uh made some special uh [polymers] that have the ability to uh make certain [actinide] elements [adhere] to them  
uh uh they've uh looked at uh [plutonium] and [uranium] and uh some other similar things to   try to remove those from radio active waste  
and again this is driven by all of the documentation and uh e s and h uh uh considerations that uh people are uh worrying about i think much more than they should  
actually   i've been involved in recycling for long before it became [fashionable]  
back when i was in graduate school i did all of the recycling of the uh paper from the computer center  
and uh in fact i think i was the first person in our department to have my thesis published on recyclable recycled paper  
i think that's a wonderful idea  
the only alternative i would see is uh and this would actually be a little more workable since [weighing] everybody's garbage would be a real pain uh if you did it by volume rather than by weight   it would uh speak more directly to the space needs and the landfill  
and it would   also cause people to compact their garbage more  
uh and uh and limiting the volume is probably a little bit closer to the real problem than limiting the weight  
well in our area
we just introduced the um [citywide] uh clean king sport campaign
and we have a recycling [mascot] called [kleanaroo] he's a [kangaroo] and uh we're setting up curbside recycling bins for the city home owners and several of our local businesses also have recycling stations set up in their parking lots and how about in your area
uh_huh
and so have we we've been doing the computer paper
and then we've also been doing our aluminum cans
i that's the one thing i don't know
i i don't know if they take them to the local aluminum uh recycling plant
uh just locally or or what
i assume that's what they would do
i would hope
yeah
i i think that's what they do
i think they they give that to charity
okay
oh for each different product
oh okay
yeah
i was going to say i've seen in some of these um local mail order catalogs they've got trash can [dividers] for for home owners who don't have those
it it it like cuts your trash can in half
so you could put cans on one side and and other on the other side
so so
i think i think a lot of people are jumping on the band wagon
um as far as you know should more be done
i think there's i think there's always more that can be done
yes
i've even heard them talking about uh recycling freon from refrigerators
[refrigeration] systems yes
there are there are companies that recycle their freon
and um i'm sure there are a lot chemicals that that can be recycled that
there's a lot of
uh_huh
now that's
we we don't have that that's neat
uh_huh
but you'd think that uh garages could do that that would be great
no
it's it's really bad to not break down
i uh saw an article the other day in ann [landers] that talked about how long it takes like a cigarette butt to decompose and i think it was between twenty and thirty years
yes
i i was i was flabbergasted and i think plastic was um plastic never totally total breaks down
that's the one that never did
yep
plastic took fifty years
yeah
they they have here
yes
i used to get my egg [mcmuffin] in one of those little styrofoam cup uh cups like
and now they wrap them in paper
yes
so i was really glad to see that
they they are good
i think they recognize their their position as a community leader
and really work to keep that going
so and and the only other thing i've seen has been the setting up a compost [heap] in your own backyard
but that's that's hard
if you don't have a big yard or if you live in an apartment
that might not go over real well
so
let's see has it i think have we been our five minutes
i know the last time i did this
they came on and said you have exceeded your ten minutes
hang up within the next thirty seconds
so
um
okay
and and i think we just hang up
i don't think we have to do anything else
but it's been very nice talking to you
the topic is how we can how what is our
and how and do we have any ideas to encourage more recycling
well it is to me uh because we're our particular little household is hot and heavy we have our glass bin our tin bin
and our uh papers that we accumulate and recycle
plano texas
yes
they certainly do
they certainly do
where are you
oh i see
well our [libraries] and then the uh wal mart stores have the bins in back of them
and when you recycle glass
that seems to make a lot of difference
and you have the colored glass and the clear glass
and the paper and the tin cans
so when you get all of that going
it is it it occupies a space in your garage
but you very quickly get use to it
and we do not
sure
well you know we haul it off once in a while
and we also do not bag our clippings on our lawns we let the wind blow it off
we do not fill well this is texas
it doesn't set it blows gives
lots of grass give it twenty four hours and the whole things gone
there's no problem someone else is worrying about
and we have somebody else's but uh the problem that bothers me more are uh you know i think the communities will do as good as they are supported by their local government you know if there's if there's enough need and they have a responsive local city management
it will happen what upsets me there was an article and i'm sorry i was reading a book at the same time
it was on our texas beaches
and they are our texas beaches are suppose to be the [dirtiest] beaches in the united states
and it's not because of litter it's because of boats
the if you could think of the basin the texas gulf coast
as a large [swirling] vacuum things that are thrown from ships swirl in and swirl in to our beaches
and it kills some of our animals
there's there's a professor down there that has texas a and m has a nice size facility at port aransas
and he's got all these collection of animals that he's frozen that were killed you know by plastic
it's horrible
it's a gross collection
uh_huh
yes
whatever those nasty things are
that's right
or they starve to death
because they they can't swallow or drown yeah
terrific
well they showed one baby turtle that had been caught up in some uh plastic
and it starved to death it couldn't
it couldn't swallow it was pitiful
well they're suppose to be working around that
uh_huh
oh really
sure
so trust us
it's our nets everything is great
go back sleep and don't worry
uh_huh
oh that's just [sickening] well and the other thing uh we have an endangered species turtle a [ridley's] turtle
that's on the texas gulf coast
and their our shrimp nets are suppose to be turtle proof so the turtles can swim through
huge fight going on uh the [shrimpers] just say great
you want us it put a big hole in our nets is that what you want us to do this makes sense to us
we're starving to death anyway
and you want us to put a hole in our nets i can see their point i i guess if my family was terribly hungry
i wouldn't be as [humanistic] as i am because i don't have that problem
so it's it's really a hard hard issue to say what's right
and what's not
oh this is
like they raise catfish now
well part of the problem there is so many of the fishermen work for
so little money
we have a lot of vietnamese
fisher people
and they support their whole family on less than than i had for lunch
anyway
and of course they don't have the money to make an investment like that
and it it all goes back to the government spending enough money high enough priorities on things like that that they it would have to be government owned or financed if not controlled because the financing simply isn't there because it's one ever those cottage industries that uh the
very poor keep going
but can't do anything to change
sure
well and you know they could they could be terribly sorry they're killing the turtles you know
probably are probably are
well they may do it
whether they like it or not they may do it you know
that's correct turtle is very good
that's the other thing wrong with the poor turtles
well in my [unreformed] days
i have had turtle soup in new orleans and i can tell you it's fabulous
but of course a boot would taste fabulous when they finish with it
well it's no telling what the turtle really taste like
well it maybe it wasn't you know who who knows what i had but it was fabulous
great
sure it is
charge fifteen keep moving as long as it's french
oh dear
well i don't have any my big solutions all go back to elect politicians that are more sensitive because i think we can't do it ourselves
you need clout it'd be great
but the problem with that is you have all of these little branches off the main problem
and everyone is very concerned about one thing you know like the woman down the tip of texas that that calls her turtles and kisses everyone of them everyday she's terribly interested in her turtles she could care less about shrimp
and on
she goes you this kind of thing
everybody's got such a [splintered] interest
yeah
that's exactly it
and there's no way to to make one group more interested or sensitive to the other group
but they can be
but they're not sensitive on the bottom line which means money
that's why i keep going back to the politicians it has to have
some focal spot
we we need uh we need an environmental ralph [nader] type which
okay
well do you have any formal programs in your area
oh no
somehow that doesn't surprise me
yeah
yeah
what i i don't know
we we
there are some [beginnings] of formal programs where we are though they're not in our town
i mean jackie and i uh recycle cans you know we just we just fill up a we have a trash can set aside for [aluminium] cans and when it gets full we just take it down and drop it off at the recycling center
but that's about the extent of ours
uh i don't
it seems to me like if if they really wanted to get serious
or you know the government
and the uh other private industries that could benefit from it would make uh perhaps more permanent uh exterior fixtures which you know wouldn't be hassle to drive to or carry stuff to you know that that's kind of one of the thoughts that i had about it
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
they've switched to that [paperboard] the [pressboard] stuff
is that right
yeah
isn't that something
yeah
i saw a sign at the local wal mart here back there in the baby section talking about wal mart does not buy disposable diapers because they don't decompose as rapidly as people say they do
so they just buy the ones that don't decompose at all
i thought that was interesting
like like compost yeah
uh
they are
yeah
they are like i said we've we've just recently i guess in our part we're like right in the middle of the state
and you know we're not in some of the more metropolitan areas like dallas or houston or something
but that you you are starting to see more big large uh recycling like dumpsters
or
oh no
you messed with texas
uh_huh
well you know they have got these adopt a highway programs
they have to give the convicts something to do
you know
yeah
i must say i don't typically well i'm i'm happy to [oblige] not happy that you did it
but you know
yeah
right
right
yeah
well of course they're they're trying real hard to [devise] ways to sustain life more comfortably down there just so they can get at some of those resources yeah
well there's already oil there isn't there
uh_huh
yeah
huh
oh boy
there there's such a higher level of consciousness about that
now that that's got to be
i mean if you could come up with something like that just to the the marketing advantage would be phenomenal
yeah
i well i think we've already seen that
i mean
just in the the the few products that have uh plugged that is a is an advantage you know it costs more
and people have jumped on them
yeah
right
and then as soon as something comes along that is that you need and all of a sudden it's available and in a environmentally conscious package
i i tend to agree
and it sure would be nice to see something like that
yeah
that's right
i sure enjoyed it
i'll think of you
okay
we have recently
the city of plano has started a a situation
it's pretty much volunteer as far as separating oh paper and bottles and you know cans and that sort of thing
and it's not exactly
curbside yet
they've got these little [igloo] like things sitting up in various parts of town where you can take that stuff in if you want to the biggest thing that they've done is uh for forever
we had been on the plastic trash bag business where everything was just uh put in uh plastic bags then set out in the alley
but uh they came through with these big green uh plastic dumpster kind of things uh where you put everything except lawn trash and then they we got these uh paper sacks to put uh lawn debris and stuff in supposedly uh you know it can all be mulched at once the paper sack and everything only problem is you can't get anything in the paper sack
yeah
they're too small on the top and they're they're smaller than most grass [catchers]
and that sort of thing
so they just started this uh-oh
maybe a month or two ago
and uh they uh the local folks you know they're just starting to use them now that the grass is starting to you know be cut and everything
we're getting a lot of complaints about them
but uh you know i i realize the whole the whole recycling trash thing is a is such a problem because the landfill
and all that
uh
i don't know what are they they're probably doing more than that up there
i'm i guess you all started this sort of thing long time before we did
uh_huh
oh
oh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
um uh_huh
yeah
we uh we're coming to that here you know in the metroplex is getting big enough that uh it'll happen
i i grew up a uh kind of a a rural area of of west texas and new mexico where that just wasn't a problem
matter of fact till recently we burned trash you know we had the big barrels out in in the alley
and when it's filled up
you just put a match to it and burned it
well course that's that's almost unheard of anymore
yeah
yeah
we used to burn leaves and burn grass you know and all that as far as what to uh to do to encourage recycling
i guess a lot of states
i have noticed on uh on coke bottles and and whatnot
we went i've got some relatives in iowa and uh there's a big thing up there
what is it nickel for every bottle or some such thing
yeah
people people actively go out and and uh seek them you know i guess that's one way of doing it you know is to make it worthwhile
um
uh_huh
yeah
well course there's uh people will go after aluminum cans and stuff down here because it's just uh there's not a per can value on them
but there is a
just in the metal
recycling itself i've
i i'm not sure what it's what a can is worth now it's couple cents you know you've to get quite a few of them to really make it worthwhile
but it turns out that uh on a a sunday morning after a dallas saturday night there's enough aluminum cans and stuff along the road
to make it worthwhile
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
our soil situation down here in this particular area
we're in a real hard black gooey [gummy] awful black clay situation
and uh
oh yeah
you could lose a small dog in the cracks on it sometimes
so i
uh_huh
yeah
there was a thing in the local news here yesterday
there's a little town down south of fort worth called [mansfield] and there's some tire recycling outfit wants a permit down there
they say out of every tire you can get a what amounts to a gallon of diesel fuel
and like you say several pounds of this uh carbon black and uh material for for making roads and anymore
there's a couple pounds of [stainless] steel in most of the
uh the tires
yeah
because the steel [belted] tires
and uh it's a totally gas fired operation
they say there's no exhaust whatsoever you know most people think of tire yeah
those burning tire uh see there was what was it massachusetts
i remember here a couple of years ago reading about one that had been on fire for long period of time
you know it just [smolders] and the black smoke [pours] out of it
yeah
over in fort worth they had one catch fire here a couple of years ago
and they had an awful time putting it out
but our big problem down here course is is uh tires laying around down on the ground and stuff
uh collect water and then of course that becomes mosquito breeding area
and uh that can be a real
um yeah
uh_huh
yeah
what happens to us anyways as you can imagine in texas
you've got urban areas that are probably as compact or as you know [densely] populated as just about any place in the country
but then then you run into uh areas you know they've we've got a statistic they like to use you know you can take the population of the world and pack it in the state of texas about the density of houston
and then you'd have the rest of the world to grow crops in because there wouldn't be any people in it
uh yeah
uh the panhandle the the there's
well there's several counties in west texas and new mexico too for that matter that are bigger than rhode island
but uh we had a our
well as a matter of fact uh it's it's funny
they i chose this subject because uh uh the city of raleigh about six weeks ago has just uh put in a city wide recycling uh regime in which uh bottles and newspapers are recycled and a truck comes around uh once every couple of weeks
and they separate your bottles for you and your newspapers and uh and they give little uh or actually fairly large green plastic uh containers to put out curbside and all that
so i think this is a real sign of progress here in the city of raleigh
they do all you have to do is you put all your glass in the bottom of this thing
followed by your plastic followed by the newspapers and when they come around to pick it up
they do all the separation so you only have one place to put stuff
so they've made it uh they've made it convenient
it used to be if you wanted to recycle you had to drive to a uh a central location in the city
and then do all the separation yourself and a lot of people didn't do it just because the recycling location was so [unpleasant] because you know when you have all that amount of stuff pretty soon you have various kinds of [vermin] running around and women seem to have something against having mice running across their feet
when they're trying to recycle
right
uh_huh
yeah
i wonder what happens if somebody just misses with a bottle
and it hits the asphalt i would think you'd just end up with a lot of broken glass unless you swept up every day
yeah
yeah
but uh it it it sounds let's see
you may you said one thing that uh uh you know just for the the sake of argument here um that that i'd like to bring up and that is whether it's the function of government to do the recycling rather than the individual consumer
and i guess my opinion would be that that's maybe one of the few functions that government ought to do
i can think of a lot of things that they shouldn't do that
they do do
but uh it seems like recycling is something that uh that the government ought to do
and that everybody ought to pay for
because i think in the long run it's one of those things
that's that's of universal benefit to every citizen in the country
right
right
right
right
they well they provide these big plastic uh boxes actually
they're a good size box maybe eighteen uh inches by uh thirty inches in size
and uh you know maybe fifteen inches deep a good sturdy plastic box and it's got uh some uh uh [bungy] cord uh kind of arrangement so when you put your newspapers on the top they don't blow away in the wind if it's windy
and uh and then they they apparently built these rather uh uh fancy trucks that come around and have and have the various bins for the various colored glasses and a bin for the plastic and a place for the newspaper
and they're kind of these high sort of uh high tech uh uh trash collector trucks they're big things too
they must be as long as at least as long as a school bus
and uh i'm sure it's costing the city of raleigh money
but of course i mean that comes out of the taxes and so the people are ultimately paying for it
and i think that people ought to ultimately pay for the convenience of having newspapers and bottles and and plastics and all that
well i think that they that they do attempt to uh that that that they they sell the the glass and the newspaper my understanding is that they don't meet expenses with it
but that they offset a lot of expenses
one of the problems with newsprint especially is that virgin newsprint costs about twenty five or thirty percent of what recycled newsprint costs
so a newspaper company is not is not going to buy recycled newsprint when virgin newsprint is available at a third of the cost
and i think one of the problems there is that is is the cost of virgin newsprint is not being accurately reflected because that cost ought to reflect the cost of recycling
and and what the government needs to do really in a good capitalist society
i mean capitalism [thrives] on there being a fair price for a product
and and that price ought to has to include uh the cost of its disposal and it also has to include the cost of of any damage it [inflicts] on the environment and that's really where we as a capitalist society have gone have gone [awry] we have not really assigned costs appropriately for example the real cost of a barrel of oil if you take into account pollution and all of the other side effects is probably a hundred dollars a barrel now i'm just guessing but i bet you that that's an accurate guess
and but we're we're paying twenty
so the the cost is wrong on that thing
and somewhere along the line you have to pay the [piper] that's what adam smith was saying hundreds of years ago as far as capitalism is concerned
if you don't charge the right prices you're going to eventually that price is going to make itself felt but the way to make the system work is to is to put the price on the commodity and have the people who use the commodity pay that price
and the role of government in a capitalist society is to see that that happens
and the way government uh does that is through taxation so with newsprint for example the government should tax virgin newsprint to the point where its uh its price is pretty much the same as recycled newsprint and [earmark] that money for the recycling of newsprint you see what i mean
so that the people who use the newsprint are ultimately paying for the entire product not only for its production
but for its disposal hey i bet you didn't think you were going to get a lecture on it
well the the um of course most you know you can't recycle oil in the form of gasoline because it's destroyed
so there's not a question of recycling there
but there is a question of of uh environmental damage
oh yeah
yes
we're doing several different things uh
and i haven't kept up to date on what's happen lately
but they have uh the [igloos] around and they have various places for different kinds of recycling
uh_huh
and uh uh i understand in the future we're supposed to uh begin a curbside pick up as well
but that hasn't started yet
how about you
curbside would be wonderful
i'm ready
uh they're also doing uh a a recyclable bags to put the grass clippings in
uh_huh
you can't put them in plastic anymore
and uh so that seems to be helping a little bit too
oh
that would be great
i i am not sure how a mulching mower works does it just chop it up [finely] or what
and you don't see the clippings lying around then
huh
well now do you recycle plastics also
uh_huh
i've heard that that's uh something that can be started
oh is that right
right
oh that's a good idea
that's great
well no
you've got to do that
oh how funny
well old habits die hard
they say
and and it's the whole issue of conservation and everything is i you know i i talk about it all the time with my kids
i'm a teacher
and i we talk about it a lot
and yet uh there are often times i find myself doing you know going ahead and throwing a way a plastic bottle instead of you know separating it
and so forth
i and i just forget
so it's a it's a effort on everybody's part i think to begin to do this
keep it up
yeah
oh good
that's right
that's right
and my kids help a lot
my son uh tried to or helped build a a little recycling center for us here
at the house you know put to put the cans in
and the papers and uh plastic and so forth
so we have a little place that he built out in the garage
uh so until we get curbside service we cart it all over
everywhere
somehow but they're real good about it
uh they're real responsible much better than i am really about uh sorting things out
so so they've done a real good job
oh that's great
and you can put it back in your copy machine and just run it on through can't you
yeah
uh_huh
i bet
huh
well we just need to do more and more
right
more people doing that
yeah
uh_huh
is that right
huh
i've never heard of that either
interesting
well and that the other issue is disposable diapers
uh and i i guess some companies are beginning to do some things uh to where part of the diaper can be recycled or [degraded] uh but did an interesting thing in my classroom in [calculating] the number of diapers that were used for my class of kids
just in the time that they would have been the age to wear diapers and uh the kids were just astounded
and then we [calculated] according to the number of kids in the school
and that kind of thing
and but so that you know that's a real eye opening uh activity to do because you you begin to think of the thousands and millions and billions of diapers that are still there
oh it
that's incredible
uh_huh
that's right
yeah
the whole idea oh
and i you know i with my first i was all gung ho well we're going to do cloth and everything
and then part way through
i i just
okay
uh_huh
aluminum cans
do you recycle newspapers or anything
uh_huh
i think they would
right
how about glass jars those are recyclable
huh
uh_huh
i'm on the phone long distance had to yell had to yell at my kids
well i have four
and we try and recycle my husband is in the packaging business
and um they use recycled newspapers shredded up for the [filler] for uh it's a pad that they put on top top of apples [boxed] apples when they ship apples
and it absorbs some of the you know the when the apples get
the shipping you know
oh he does
for what company what trucking company
oh that's great
well he may have some of our apples then probably [washington's] a very big apple growing
place
especially yakima you have to look for yakima washington on some of the box labels and c v c [weyerhaeuser] that's us
that's us
well so they have a recycling
actually they
it's called central washington recycling
and they have a a whole center
and they have it set up like a circus
where you know the green glass goes in this [clown's] mouth
and the tin cans go up to the [alligator] and and so we we don't recycle as much as we should but we do recycle newspapers
and cans
and bottles
right
right
right
i think that'd be a great idea
we're going to
right
right
i would like to see them
i would
yes
you do you sure do
in fact i put mine in my garage and i'm sick of them
but we take them
my little girl she gets to collect the money
you know since she has to haul them down there every day
so i let her keep the money um i was thinking the other day about um plastic gloves that the dentists and doctors and everybody has to wear now
that'd be wonderful
if they could recycle those
you know as it is now they can't
well i think they're [nonrecyclable] right
contaminated is what they are
you know they
but that you know plastic just doesn't [disintegrate] and that that's a major thing i mean how many pairs of gloves they go through in a day
right
and i'm just thinking about the [orthodontist] where i take my child you know for his braces yeah
yep
yep
everybody
yep
well it's too bad that they have to
but be nice if those somehow could be recycled
you know
that'd be better for everybody
and then the baby diapers you know i don't have anybody in diapers any more
but gosh i used my share of disposable diapers
well that's good
oh yeah
yeah
but that's
uh_huh
yeah
i used them with my last two
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it get real expensive
yeah
i think if people go back to cloth diapers that's better for recycling
i mean that's better for the environment
sure
well i see in the future i see people uh being more conscious of
we're going to be forced to recycle
you know i see
even plastic shopping bags
there's
you can return those
and our grocery bags our paper grocery bags
has a five cent refund on them if you bring them back to the store do yours there
oh they do
well that's
oh
well see and i always forget
you know with four kids
and you know six people in this family our grocery [bill's] pretty high
and you know i get you know thirty or more than that
yeah
i get fifty
yeah
that's right
well in our community we recycle everything
oh yeah
we recycle plastic we recycle aluminum
we recycle paper
we recycle everything
well my wife does
i'm not real high on it myself
how about
do you do that
do you realize glen that the latest forbes magazine pointed out that it actually costs more to recycle than it does not to recycle
well newspapers for example for recycling papers to get rid of the ink it costs about thirty two percent more to recycle paper than it does to have new paper
yes
well it's uh it's a problem that uh is probably at the moment [overemphasized] because there is apparently more landfill available than it's a matter of economics
and economically right now uh it's more of a scare [tactic] it appears that we are running out of things
and in fact in some cases are
particularly paper which trees obviously by being a [renewable] resource and being a crop no more different than corn in effect it's a situation that of economics where it's less expensive to have new newspaper than using and recycling old paper
right
those are uh plastic is very recyclable
and uh should be uh that's something that just won't go away
when you [dispose] of it
and uh plastics and and your metals are very worthwhile being recycles it's uh
what what city
do you live in
well in
i live in plano
and uh they have a very big recycling program where uh for your grass clippings
for example if you don't put them in a paper sack they won't pick them up
they have special pick up days for for uh leaves and debris uh you know clippings type thing
and if you put it in a plastic one they won't pick it up
yeah
that's what they're coming out with here
matter of fact
i haven't received ours yet
but uh that's the plan in plano also
they uh bring out these [humpty] bins
and you're supposed to fill it up with
well i i
well as a science teacher
i've been encouraging recycling for a long time
and uh we collect things at school such as foil and cans and glass to a certain extent
uh i coach an team
and we save everything
the kids at school bring some things in
but not as much as i'd like
and i have [recyclings] bins at home
and we've had a uh we've had a foil which i think a lot of people don't realize they could sell along with their
i mean aluminum cans
well one of the women has this these big balls of foil competition thing going
and i don't know where we're supposed to turn it in another science teacher at school is in charge of that and got all the materials on it
but we're saving foil and accumulating balls of foil in our room
not yet
it it is in some communities
but it isn't here
and it is experimental in some areas at this point
they're trying it out and deciding what they're going to do with it
that's true
my husband gets irritated sometimes because of the you know about recycling bins
and we keep our cans in one thing and glass in another and paper in another it once it gets full getting it loaded into the car and taking it is a pain
and uh sometimes you go to those recycling places
and like with cans often times there's a long line uh you know if it's one of those where you get change for your cans
now if it's just a [donation] type of thing
like at the library or some places like that
sometimes people just dump their stuff
right at the front they don't go to the back of the like
if it's a truck or whatever for paper
and then everything just starts getting piled outside which is a pain
because that's not what's supposed to be happening
i think so too
i i am in hopes that that will be successful and that they will decide to go ahead and and spread it to our neighborhood as well
uh_huh
that's true
some of them are recyclable
and i started trying to save those
but we couldn't find a place to dump them
and so we just had to throw them away um
well i think i was talking to someone who lives really almost on the other side of town said she knew of one place where you could go and so once a month they made this trek with all their recyclables
but they also have a pickup uh
and they would take everything
but that is used to be such a pain
and it's so far away from us
and that's the only one she knew of
so i guess what we decided is that we're doing our part by recycling three and going out of our way
but to have to go clear across town to do plastic
and there's a a little booklet called uh fifty fifty ways you can save your have you read that
yes
well i read some of those to the kids from time to time
so that they get some of the ideas from that
but they are a lot more into recycling than they used to be um
the uh children uh_huh
because i teach middle school
and it's uh surprising some of them aren't
but that probably goes right into their families
but there are even groups of parents that uh a recycling coalition type deal where they're really making speeches to the p t a
and the dad's club and everything trying to get more parents involved
so it's uh
it it's on its way if we could get more support through the public utilities
well it certainly would would help things out uh i don't see a terribly lot of it going on here
i was actually quite surprised
i went to uh san francisco uh recently out to berkeley
and and uh they actually have mandatory well uh no their is not mandatory
i'm sorry
uh but you know it was just incredible to see everybody with you know with tin bags of things
and they they have a community recycling center uh where rather than than having monetary incentives for the the people that actually bring stuff into recycling they are just doing it to help out the city
and then the city can use that money you know any money that they get from goods recycled
yeah
no
i would i would be glad to
but you know we have no place convenient at all
i mean i am not really concerned about making money off it uh
you know i mean that that the amount of money that would come out of it is not really enough to make it worthwhile
it's just recycling per se
uh we do very little we recycle newspapers
but other than that
it's kind of a shame
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
i think you know i think that they would have sort of neighborhood or semi neighborhood recycling centers that is what i saw in berkeley it was really nice
it just had uh [bunches] of bins
and and uh in in each particular thing
they even had a pacific of course being in wine country
they they even had wine bottle recycling
so you take the wine bottles and the [wineries] would actually buy you know take those bottles back directly
yeah
and not not to have to melt them down
they just use them uh
but they had things for different types of paper and they had things for the aluminum and then for plastic
apparently yeah
there there you know there is only a matter of maybe ten fifteen blocks away from where this friend of my lived and they just gave everything up and took a trip over there
and they they didn't get anything for it
but but uh you know the thing is that a center like that
i am sure it would be self supporting if uh you know just off the [proceeds] of the recycled things
yeah
that is what i am saying you know they could pay for it you know if they have to have someone there occasionally to kind of keep an eye on things
or do stuff you know that that salary could easily be paid out of the money that comes from uh selling glass or aluminum or whatever
and uh you know they even had uh they even had a little little shelf area for recycled books where people brought books
they didn't want
put them on the shelf and take come take anything you wanted off the shelf
it was quite quite an operation
yeah
no
uh_huh
yeah
oh
oh i haven't seen those
now i i think i have seen them actually going with like a sack on the side where they are picking up aluminum cans people put them on separately and they will toss those in a bag on the side of the truck or something
but you know
yeah
yeah
i think that there is a little bit of you know of
i think that they the emphasis on making money from recycling
is is a little bit wrong certainly there is money and value to somebody
but i think that the average consumer probably doesn't want to spend the time
and it is not enough money to make it really interesting anyway
and so
uh you know i think they they ought to make more of an emphasis on on convenience as opposed to uh to uh you know trying to give people money for it
no
now that we do where i work
we we recycle the cans and bottles and but there is a lot of computer paper generated so it's you know generally clean white paper
and uh
well uh i think it's a really good thing because um of all the materials we use and things like cans and bottles and stuff like that
it's just a complete waste uh you know make them and then throw them away and bury them out in a dump somewhere when you can just as easily melt them down and reuse them
and uh there's a
i mean there's so many products that are like that
it's just too bad that they can't find more that we could recycle
yeah
you're right there
but then there's things like the uh newspaper market where they try and recycle as much as they can
and then they no one
yeah
or it ends up costing a lot more to recycle it than it does just to make it
so
oh yeah
uh i go to indiana university here
and its real big and all the buildings are recycling bins for all kinds of materials
yeah
those are the uh well the [university's] really big about
they have contests in the dorms
and stuff to see who can uh recycle the most stuff
yeah
within the school and also the city here has uh
yeah
monthly curbside recycling
uh_huh
right
right
right
but then you do
don't you get paid when you take your own uh
uh_huh
right
sounds like you are an avid recycler are you
uh_huh
right
yeah
we do that at work too
right
uh_huh
right
well aren't there pop cans that are like that also
because they have mixed metals or something
uh no
not really
right
words to live by
okay
you too
we have been working hard to get a program of recycling going
the best we've been able to do is an area that has uh storage bins
uh for um bottles and uh plastic
but people need to drive it there
we don't we haven't moved to having uh picked up with the garbage yet
here uh they don't take uh lawn debris to the landfill any more
we need to load it into cars and take it to a general site where it gets recycled uh
but i think they're they're not making it easy for the uh general public to do it here
i mean they they you have to haul everything yourself which can be a mess when it comes to uh yard waste
in particular
well we've got enough people we've got a community of about eighty five thousand
but they're just very reluctant to to get moving the way in which i would like to see them moving
um
did you tell me
you're recycling newspapers
boy
you're you're far ahead here most people are recycling aluminum soda pop and beer cans uh for the money that they get out of them
and that seems to be the only incentive on that side
yeah
it really is
but there are a few people who who
they will manage it
what we've done at the church is to have uh people bring the stuff to our church
and then there're couple of people who who crunch them down
and then uh take them to recycling center
and then the money is used for uh the [outreach] program to provide food
and so that has been an incentive uh within uh our our particular church
but newspapers the city doesn't want
and none of the uh recycling places want them because they say that they're it costs them more to recycle than than they get out of them
so
well i mean in d c
there's a law that was recently passed that like uh you have to
it's a law i think that organizations have to provide recycling
i guess recycling bins they have to recycle
it's a law to do it
right
it's like uh i mean personally i have never been a recycling nut in terms of
i don't i don't go out of my way
and i think that they put uh receptacles around campus
and the dorms and that makes me uh more apt to do it because there
it's more convenient
right
yeah
i am looking right here there's a waste bin
i mean for waste
i don't know
i guess they i guess they can recycle normal waste i am not really sure
and there's trash cans too
i mean generally when i'm right
when if i go by the waste bin
i'll put something in there
if it says they've got cans and bottles
uh and bins for paper
no
no
not really
i mean
yeah
i mean when i am in uh our student center studying
and i'll go out my i'll walk i'll get up from my table and walk out of my way
i mean they're right near the trash can so i'll toss it in the bin
but uh as far as if i'm walking the street drinking a soda i finish it
i am going to toss it in the nearest trash can probably
i mean it's convenient it's there if the recycling bin is not there
i'm i'm if it was there
i'd use it
yeah
exactly
i mean in in my dorm
it's in the basement but i've found pile much in a giant bag a shopping bag
and then uh take it down in the basement and toss it in the uh recycling trash can uh but yeah
i mean more receptacles uh around on the streets even would would uh make people do it if it's there they are going to do it still i mean some people won't even go that far out of their way there are people who are pretty ignorant and i mean
or are really set in their ways
yeah
yeah
yeah
i am sure they will
i mean with uh the way things are going
i mean uh it's going towards a more green type of thing green thinking you should call it
people more aware more aware they need to save the environment and all that
right
oh definitely
i mean there's been plenty of up [roar] about the uh marriott using uh styrofoam cups and styrofoam plates and that kind of thing
yeah
cause i mean yeah
the paper ones are uh plastic coated and they are probably even worse i don't really know
harder to recycle
yeah
well i think it's possible to recycle styrofoam but it's more expensive uh they do have reasonable cups that people can uh i mean basically you've got carry around this cup if you want to if you want to be uh environmentally conscious
and they i believe they give discounts on on drinks if you have this cup so it's kind of an incentive you have a discount on your on the drink instead of the regular price or whatever
oh
oh that sounds great
well it's sort of a mixed bag up here uh some of the communities have started off with volunteer recycling uh one of the towns near here [cambridge] uh had a couple years of volunteer recycling
i never saw it
but i know i fellow who was involved in the effort who said that it was amazing just hundreds
or you know maybe even more than a thousand cars coming in on the one recycling day a month
and they had [dozens] of volunteers sorting things
and when the volume reached a certain level the city's department of public works finally decided to do a curbside program
uh my town arlington has had a uh a similar volunteer program
and they just got the department of public works to do a uh a daily drop off at their yard where you know people can bring in glass and and uh paper and and whatnot and aluminum and tin and some of the other towns around here fact just about all the towns that border arlington where i live have gone to the curbside recycling
and i really wish we'd do it
here it's just so much easier for people i think it's it probably results in a larger volume of stuff being recycled if all you have to do is put it out by your curb once a week
as it is here
i sort of resent the effort to you know collect everything until i have a chance to get down to the d p w yard and drop it off
you know it's not a huge inconvenience but it's just one more thing to do
um
yeah
uh_huh
right
oh boy
boy that's a real problem
i really hate to hear that just regarding the newspapers the one curbside thing we to have in my town actually is every other week
they'll pick up newspapers which is nice
and the rule is that anything that comes in the newspaper even the slick uh ad [inserts] they'll pick up and that's great
yeah
yeah
i i guess it depends on the facility it's going to the thing that i guess the flip side of that
and in our town anyway
is that they won't pick up plastics now
and even when they were here and in other towns around here they won't take so called injection [molded] things which i guess basically is containers that are bigger at the top than at the bottom like yogurt containers
typically and uh you know i don't know about dallas
but i think people around boston eat a lot of yogurt
so
there's just a lot of lot of containers that uh that wind up getting tossed you know without being recycled
and i don't know what's going on with in terms of capacity it's my impression although i haven't really read anything about it that so many towns and cities have started recycling with there might not be enough firms out there that are willing to take the uh
or you know that will pay decent money to take the materials
i once
well that's makes sense
ours seems really crazy
because well we've had places all the shopping centers
i mean the local shopping centers where there's a grocery store and a you know drug store and so on have bins around where you can leave papers or aluminum cans that type of thing for uh-oh
the [kiwanis] or some sort of
groups pick them up and make money for their causes and those are fairly popular and work fairly well
and you can also take your own stuff to a recycling center
and you know get the few pennies you get for the papers or cans
i know some people who do that
but to me that too much trouble for the few cents the uh
so i just drop it off at the local place
when i go to the store and let them you know some good agency make some money off of it
what little they get
and uh that works for me
but now as i understand it from reading the paper the system seems totally backwards uh they are starting a thing where all of our garbage bills are going up like a dollar and a half a month
and that's because they will give us containers you know certain colors of bins and stuff to put cans and papers and so on in that all makes sense
but if you don't want to recycle you can say i don't want to recycle
and save a dollar and a half a month
which the theory is that if you don't want to recycle with the city who actually has a private contractor do it uh if you don't recycle with the city then you're going to take it yourself
and you know make your money off of your paper and cans somehow it seems to me like people will just say i don't want to pay the buck and a half
and i'll throw it in the garbage
so it sounds to me like it's messed up because they had
i guess
so we'll have to see what happens they're just supposed to start distributing these blue plastic containers for cans and bottles and different kind different colors for different things uh
you still could so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me
and i think i understand it pretty well from both the paper and t v
and we'll see what happens
uh
oh supposedly the majority are
it's pretty ecologically conscious here
oh i think so
plus a lot of people will probably just pay the buck and a half and not even notice the difference or care
but uh it seems strange
the the university where i work it's uh strange too because they have places you can leave cans and some campus organization recycles them
and uh there is a campus recycling bins not bins
but like i work in a library
well uh at my workplace they are we have uh places for aluminum cans and we have a everybody's been issued a separate trash can for uh recyclable paper
let's see them get that word straight
uh as far as the community goes uh it's pretty much voluntary nothing has been done uh i don't where i live i live in an [unincorporated] area
and we don't have any uh we have just private uh garbage services
and uh uh as far as i'm concerned i i guess i should do it
but being lazy
i don't if if somebody made it easy for me to separate my trash and pick it up
i would more than gladly participate uh
uh
huh
have the garbage police looking after you
i guess
uh well i used to live in california
and uh just before i left they were uh some communities were making that uh mandatory
and uh uh fortunately i was in i was in an apartment complex
and for some reason we just threw everything in the dumpster that was all right
yeah
you know
and most people probably don't want to carry a couple of bags worth of garbage in their car a few miles uh i mean it's all it's a good idea
we should all do it uh
but uh if you from a practical viewpoint from a selfish viewpoint if communities made it easy and convenient for you to do it they would have a lot more participation in my opinion
yeah
right
uh_huh
oh
gee you haven't
gee kids around here
i don't think would pay
well wouldn't pay any attention to it
they'd the dogs would get to it before they would i would imagine
wow
oh
is that a city or state law that uh requires it to be recycled
or
huh
gee
well i i guess if you can buy in bulk it so to speak
well i bet that's resulted in a it would seem to me that's resulted in some cleaner highways i would imagine surprise surprise
well um starting with my work um we're in a uh aluminum can and paper recycling um i work for t i
and there's a uh a lot of paper that gets thrown away here
so we've started recycling our uh plain white paper
and we have a a company that collects it and takes care of
that for us
uh in the community um baltimore county that i
that's the county i used to live in um they just started experimenting with uh trash pickup where uh one day a week they pick up recycled items
and then another day a week they pick up the other trash and uh they've uh contracted with a company here that has a special truck that has different containers on the same truck you know one that holds paper one that holds plastic one that holds tin one that holds aluminum and uh so they've they've started experimenting with doing it
um on a very large scale also in baltimore city they've started doing it
uh there's been a lot of awareness um especially here on the east coast because our landfills are you know so filled now that uh there's just not enough room for all the garbage that we uh that we create that's right
and the barge from new york
that went around the world
and
uh_huh
yeah
that's uh it's been a problem that i've noticed a lot in print that uh um once you have collected this
what do you do with it because there's not a whole lot of companies that are taking it
there's a lot of people that want to participate
and given the facilities will participate and they've proven that time and time again
and uh i was just reading some figures this morning that seventy nine percent of the people [polled] considered themselves to be [environmentalists] and so uh you know it looks like there's a lot of people there who want to do it
there's just not a lot of companies out there that know what to do with it
another problem that that's uh is plastic milk cartons
they've got a way to recycle them
they've got places that can recycle them into products
no problem
the problem is that they can't there's no facility to get it from the people that have the raw material the empty milk cartons back to the guy who can do something with it
and uh in order for this company to survive they've had to uh in their area start [sponsoring] their own recycling centers
in order to get the raw goods
but they you know of course they they're limited with what they can do
they can only do so much
and uh you know it's it's a matter of
i i don't think you know i hate to get government involved with anything
because it always costs more money
but um you know it's a matter of they're going to have to pass stricter laws
or start making the garbage collection um more costly
and once they do that then people will be more interested right now it doesn't matter how much garbage you put out to the road
it's a flat fee a month
if they started billing people by the pound
things might change drastically
that's right
yeah
well actually there's a gentleman down in atlanta who has invented a process using a certain acid and he can take a tire and turn it into immediately [burnable] oil
it has less sulfur in it than processed fuel oil for the house
it does nothing to hurt the environment and the heat generated by the process is in turn used to run the machine
so it's self sufficient and very efficient
i mean it it you know it it controls its own process it burns it reduces the amount of fuel that's required in order to get out the fuel at the other end
um so far
they've demonstrated it on a uh garage size unit that this guy invented they're currently looking for funding to build a larger scale
and i saw this about three months ago
well if you think about it if um uh i remember that when they used to take uh they used to pay you to take the tire you know get the to turn in your tire when you got your and your your husband probably remembers that better than i do
i remember there was a time when they'd give you one or two dollars for your used tire now they charge you two dollars for your used tire uh_huh
yeah
yes
i saw it on the evening news
and um the guy actually took the oil that came out from the process in a measuring cup turned around and poured it right back into the uh tank
that he was using to fire the process in order to run it
and you actually um with this process by putting in the tires end up with more energy from the oil than you put into the process so it's a way of of making a profit off of the tires
and when you stop and look at the you know something like eight million tires a month that are you know [discarded] you know there's a lot of tires out there that that could go through this process
there's not a profit
i the the problem is that there's there's always a payoff to recycling
but it's hard for people to see it
because it's hard for them
it's hard to explain to someone that look it's costing us you know [umpteen] thousand dollars a year to bury this stuff in the ground
and then what is the long term effect of us [burying] that in the ground
if that stuff
yeah
it it's going to leak into our water and then we're going to have problems with our water and then it's going to cause health problems
and so there is a long term effect
and when you stop and think about it every just about every single thing that's produced can be recycled
i mean if it's if it's uh you know if it's stuff you scraped off your plate it can go into the compost and you know
and so it's
i mean it there's a way to recycle everything
and and um if your husband just retired then i've got to believe that you've got to be old enough to remember that back during the wars hey recycling was the thing to do
i mean you didn't
that's right
if you if you didn't recycle you were un american
i was at the point i might have had it sitting there somewhere
okay
okay
it's it's supposed to be on the instruction sheet
but i didn't see one on mine
um
okay
zero three two seven okay
okay
oh okay
okay
that will work okay
let me hit one now
okay
uh in my community
they are doing a lot as far as recycling goes uh waco is a pretty small city and so a lot of the city people i guess they want
they take they take care of the community more than i think a big city does
or they can
because they are smaller and so they are doing all kinds of recycling projects
and the school kids are doing all kinds of things
and i'm a i'm a news reporter
and so i report on a lot of the recycling things that they do
and just last week they opened up a new recycling center uh so now they have two uh in an [adjoining] community uh hewett they are doing uh curbside recycling
which is something a lot of cities are starting to look into but for some cities it's very expensive
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
that's a form of the curbside yeah
um
uh i know even wal mart department store
i don't if they do it there
they have the recycling bin right outside the store
and it's got glass aluminum plastic
right
the plastic bags
uh_huh
yeah
wow
do you recycle yourself at home
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh
it's kind of rough doing the newspaper i understand because they can't recycle the uh i guess it's the sale papers that have the color on them
and so it's kind of hard for them to i guess uh separate all that
uh_huh
yeah
i don't think anybody would you know i don't think they put the colored paper on there
so that should be pretty difficult
i don't recycle myself i live i'm single
and so i guess if i had a family
i'd probably be more aware
now that i am single
but uh
yeah
yeah
especially on my job i'm hardly ever home
so you know
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
you just go in and you don't know when you are coming out
so
let's see what else they are doing uh jeez
i'm all out of recycling
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
right
my mother before all this recycling stuff started i guess
well not before it all started
but she would collect the cans and you go like in front of the [supermarkets] or whatever
and you put the cans in this bin thing
and it [spits] out money
yeah
yeah
that that [freaked] me out when it first did that
i thought okay
we got like eight cents or something
yeah
exactly
at work we do recycling we have a little recycling our cans and bottles and those go out
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
wow
right
uh_huh
just regular paper
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
so that
so that gives you kind of an incentive
well that's great
if you know like a lot of things you pick up today almost everything says recyclable
or this is made from recyclables or something
it's amazing
it really is
it's amazing to me how fast
i'm sure recycling has been going on forever
and it's just i guess everyone is picking it up now
you know
but it's just amazing to me how much it's come in the last year
since last earth day you know everything i mean everything is recycle recycle everywhere you go
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
i remember my mother used to take the coke bottles in and you get like
ten cents or something like that
i guess that was a form of it
but now it's just like perpetrated into the into the you know society
like if you don't recycle you feel you feel almost uh i don't know like you're doing something wrong or you feel guilty almost
yeah
wasteful people uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
you throw it away
that's it
we're spoiled
right
i know i'm doing the beat i'm covering now is about our landfill here
and uh what was it i think twenty four million tons of garbage that we throw away every america could be recycled
like twenty four million
and i think that accounts for uh i think one quarter or half of the landfill space
so i mean i just learn all these little propaganda things
oh yeah
not at all
um
um
mount [trashmore] huh
i never heard of that one
that's like the big stink around here this landfill thing they are wanting to expand it
and a lot of the people that live around the area don't want it expanded because you know they say it uh uh it poison their water and you know poison the air and there's an elementary school right across the street and all kinds of stuff
so it's a pretty big issue
exactly
uh_huh
right
that's what a lot of people are saying that it may not hurt now
but they are looking in the long run
and they are saying well forty years from now we'll yeah
uh_huh
okay
i'm from dennison
plano great
are they doing anything down there for recycling
uh_huh
yeah
well that's neat
uh_huh
do you separate your trash
well that's what they should do that
uh_huh
i thought about that last
last this last couple weeks ago when we bagged up our leaves
it was sixteen or eighteen bags of leaves
and yeah
and it takes forever for that plastic to
[dissolve] uh_huh
and you use it as mulch
they won't let you
right
paper
okay
uh
oh i can't think of anything milk cartons and soda bottles
well that's good
oh that's going to be a lot of hard work though
for them
well i know everybody's throwing away millions of dollars worth of plastic and stuff everyday just to be buried uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yes
yeah
uh_huh
the only they think i've heard of them doing down here in dennison is wal mart
let's you put there you know uh milk cartons and two liter bottles those clear plastic bottles
that's about it
uh_huh
carry
okay
well they're doing that
but every time i get paper bags at a grocery store
i bring home bugs
yeah
and i can't do it
okay
uh_huh
yeah
well they ought to do that around down here
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
real environmentally conscious aren't you
small
did you use diapers disposable diapers
goodness
you've got
five kids
well i've got a three month old
i used disposables on her for about a month and a half
just to keep her from breaking out so bad
oh she had reactions to cloth diapers
it was from staying wet more often
and
yeah
they have are they or more biodegradable i heard they're the worst things
because they stay forever
yeah
they do
i don't mind using cloth diapers i really don't
it's not all that much more work
it's not all that much more work for disposable
i mean for cloth
yeah
well cloth i mean disposables do look better
they look they're not quite as bulky
she looks like a little mushroom but i used disposables with my first little boy
uh_huh
right
well well i know to with disposable diapers though if you use cloth diapers your polluting with more soap and using more water and all that
right
yeah
you're right
yeah
you're right
i didn't even think about that
with a cloth diaper oh yeah
right
and they are the best [dusters] yeah
it's really
it's building up for a few years
i remember this going on when i was a teenager
for about the last ten years
five years
and i've got two children
um
i haven't not until this year it's really starting to
yeah
well they've really started you know i wish they would do that um with uh the buckets here instead of the trash bags
here the city sends us trash bags
i've lived in this area for about twenty six years
yes
i am
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
well let me tell you what we have
i live in a very progressive county
and uh it has we have for the last uh year i suppose had um newspaper pickup
but there's always been you know scout troops and that sort of thing interested in doing that
because it they earn a little money and also you know they were helping the environment
but the um the county government then got involved and decided to uh [mandate] newspaper collection
and although they're still we still give ours to the girl scout troop at our church
uh they do have curbside pickup in over the entire county for newspapers
uh and then in addition to that they
uh we we can put it in paper bags
that's that makes it
okay
um they used to only let you do it uh tied with string
but now they do it in paper bags and they do say that it is paying for itself now in the actual [municipality] of [rockville] we moved just outside of it five years ago uh they've been doing newspaper recycling even longer
and they were they had their regular um garbage or you know the the people pick it up on a separate day
and they said that was paying for itself it was paying the extra salaries for those people as well as paying you know the city for doing it
but the whole county now
and it's a large county
this is montgomery county right outside washington d c
um is has begun a program to over a period of the next year to um have all
well not all waste
but um plastics um aluminum and other tin cans and uh glass of all colors
and it's
they they will you will they will also be picked up at the curb
and it can be put together at one point
and we've been doing it in my family for a while by at at first we were doing it
um separating it because most of the facilities that would take it were uh required it's being separated
but they've got this wonderful new facility now that separates it
and they had a drawing of it a [diagram] of it in in one of the local papers and it works um it's like conveyor belts and some of it works by gravity and of course you can imagine the aluminum because it's very light weight um you know falls in one place and the glass goes another place and other and tin that would be picked up by metal is just picked up you know some other way
um and then the plastic um you know go because it just kind of doesn't fall
i mean i guess it keeps going on the conveyor belt or something
i can't remember the the design right now
but it's wonderful because you don't have to separate
yeah
well they do try to control that by giving a little instruction they do try to say you you know you should have it certain way
but um on the the slick newspaper print that comes in with like the sunday papers and so on
they haven't really [protested] magazines shouldn't be as a rule should not be put in
but there are always a few of those pages and they must have a better way to do it now because they they haven't gotten too upset about that in general as long as it's the newspaper because there's not you know volume wise
maybe it does have to be you know significant volume um percentage before it's a serious problem in the plastics um the the county recycling where we take ours now because we don't yet have the curbside pickup um the the you know just solid waste transfer station they uh have indicated they only want the two liter plastic soda bottles and or i guess any soda bottles that are plastic uh caps removed
and uh milk cartons
um but in fact there is another facility that will take other items the the you know there are little codes on the bottoms of these things uh for plastic and they look it's a triangle
with arrows uh
and that [indicates] it can be recycled
but there are different grades of plastic and that's probably what you're talking about
sometimes some of those plastics cannot be reused in certain ways
some can now even our grocery stores here we have two different large chains
that of the plastic bags
but you see i'm i have a problem with that i'll take them occasionally
but i've decided that i will only use paper
which we are we do get a choice because i know that's biodegradable plastic isn't they can reuse it
but it's really not biodegradable so
yeah
yeah
huh
yes i am surprised yeah
oh not very convenient then
well what part
do you actually live in charlotte proper because my sister lives in matthews which i think is a little south of charlotte
yeah
well actually it's called charlotte now they used to be called matthews where she lives
they incorporated it
but um i i was thinking that you know i i don't know what she does with hers either
uh_huh
well it's it's not taken on there as well
although the young people
i work in the school system
so i teach in in the high school
um the uh we have an environmental club which has just begun at our high school this year
and i think maybe the young people are becoming more conscious of the need um of course it's going to get down to if it's not made easy as i just described the way they're going to do it in this county uh they're making it so easy that you almost can't miss
uh doing it
but because you don't have to separate and all that
but that seems to be the only way that it'll ever really take off is if it's not too complicated
because people in general are just lazy
and in the schools
they are trying to make students more conscious
and uh but i think the adults are the ones that have to lead the way
and they have required the the students in the cafeterias to recycle
but of course you know it doesn't go all the way they they make the effort they try
but i think as the younger children come on
maybe they'll be a little more conscious of it and eventually
yes
yes
it does uh because they they recycle the styrofoam because that's what most of the uh you know the little trays that they have their you know we used to use those heavy uh plastic or whatever they were metal even trays in in the cafeterias in our schools
but but now they have these plastic these styrofoam ones like they get at mcdonald's kind of
and um and those are being
isn't it awful now
but do you know that um um mcdonald's is phasing them out
and uh they're supposedly going to try to recycle those that are still left we're talking about
two [jillion] i'm sure
so it will take a time
but um i i just worry about what's going to happen to the next generation um
well many of them do
i know
oh
but yeah exactly that does seem a little bizarre
um i i find that there is a percentage of of uh the student body uh that is a a aware active and interested there is uh a much larger percentage still that it hasn't quite you know taken yet um
but i think they're becoming more aware
i think what will make the change is um enough of those who are aware and making an effort to do something about it
those are going to have to [ridicule] peer pressure or something
yeah
to to kind of make the effort um
but i i'm hopeful
well i enjoyed talking to you
and i i wish you luck there in charlotte
oh you are
you're you're into uh recycling
uh_huh
what materials do you recycle
uh_huh
uh_huh
so
so you're trying to take action to have that changed
uh_huh
right
so economically it's not a situation where you're going to be able to attract a lot of attention
right
uh_huh
well i think um that is kind of becoming one of the drivers now is the fact that with all the recycling that took place the price per pound has [declined] i know
aluminum in our area
one year ago aluminum was forty five cents a pound
and now it's twenty last time i went it was twenty two cents a pound
so it uh there's not a lot of money to be made
but it's just a question of trying to help the environment
uh_huh
right
um yeah
where uh where i work we recycle paper
that's about it
yeah
any any um
non [noncolored] or [nonfilm] type paper just white paper and that sort of thing
and uh
oh we don't use that kind of paper any more
no
we have [perforated] for personal printers and then like laser jet type paper
we don't use the green bar type paper any more
right
uh_huh
well i would guess that your church is probably at a point where they're not really breaking even on their recycling
i mean unless they get volunteers who have people who have trucks and that sort of thing
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
well there are neighborhoods in the atlanta area where uh you have specific trash bins to put recyclables in
and then they're collected on a regular basis
right
right
just like [roadside] collection
well now down here we've got you know collection bins in the parks and things
but there's no you know there's absolutely no
that's right
well i've seen you know i've seen examples of uh communities where they they take the other other approach you know you have to do it or you're fined and you know i'm actually all for that
i don't i'm probably not the best person for recycling
but i'll be damned if you know if they they didn't uh charge me an extra ten bucks for garbage collection every month
i'd be sure and recycle
i mean it's not that much trouble
it's just different different communities that pass the laws that say you have to have to recycle you have to you have to you know on mondays they pick up glass and on tuesdays it's you know plastics or whatever
and if if you don't uh if your garbage is just out there in a bag
and it's not sorted you know they mark you down and fine you for it
it's kind of like it's the same principal when there's a drought they fine you for using water you know they just you don't do what they say
and not that i promote government or anything
but you know the the world's in bad enough state that you know i people being the way they are
you kind of need some incentive
yeah
right
that's true
yeah
no deposit no return
i always listen to uh karen [denard] the other night on the way home from school you know she's got that talk show and uh k r a
and they were talking about you know a lot of the plastic bottles
you can't just throw all plastics together
and they were talking about you know you need legislation to uh identify what kind of plastic it
this is so you know you know you know what can be recycled as what because you know say [shampoo] bottles
i think was the example they gave there's no they don't even give you any occasion of what kind of plastic
that is
and you just can't throw that in with your two liter coke bottles or whatever
yeah
so did i
that's that's it was news to me too
i thought it was kind of interesting though
yeah
they
yeah
that
or you know things need might be identified and there needs to be a means a convenient means for people to to recycle
i know for me now i've got to drive a few miles down the road to do it if i want to do it
and a lot of times it's the difference between doing it or not doing it you know is whether you can like take it out the back like stick it out in the back back alley for the guys to pick up when they do or having to throw it in the back of your car
right
right
yeah
way too much
well i know just as an individual you know i know how many times i haul out a bag of trash and it's like incredible
you [multiply] that times everybody
you know on my block and this city it's crazy
right
right
you're t i
right
yeah
yeah
so am i
yeah
it is
i guess there's the other side of the issue that uh there need to be facilities for processing all this stuff and a market for recyclable goods
and that was something they brought up on the show i listened to was uh you know there's all kinds of you know recycled paper
but you know nobody's wanting to use it
you know how many people are using how many people do you know that use recycled paper in the office
you know you can you can buy your your [moore's] computer forms for your computer paper or whatever you can buy it with regular paper or recycled
and i'll guarantee you in my building
i haven't seen recycled paper yet
so at the same time we're we're doing all this effort to throw it a way and recycle it
we ought to be working on the other end
and paying the extra dime on on a dollar for that recycled stuff
well i think they actually do some of that
but again it's the cost
the cost of processing that it just it [intimidates] people you know it's easier to buy something that's you know the the cost of building is already
yeah
for it it's easy to say
but for a lot of people to do
you know if you were building a house
and you were going to spend you know fifty thousand versus twenty thousand on materials because you're you're going to you're going to pay for uh technology that's not mature yet
what are you going to do
you know you're going to spend twenty thousand
and
yeah
you you're going to do what you can
but uh
i was surprised
i thought this thing was shut down
but i i thought this whole switchboard thing was shut down
i was surprised to get the call
great
all right
okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
what about glass do they have glass
huh
so they know uh here they have uh they have trash sorting
uh i mean uh not not right here where i am
but in the in the town next door they have uh they have trash sorting
and you know they put out aluminum and glass and newspaper in separate bins
and uh_huh
i guess there's a lot of [raiding] by homeless people and that kind of thing because they go out and it's like they they pay for this by the by the aluminum they collect uh_huh
uh_huh
i see
so so uh do you actually live in in atlanta
uh_huh
yeah
i know the cities are uh i think decalb decalb yeah decalb and [fulton] i thought i thought i thought it was a k i always thought it was a k well never mind uh and uh isn't [fulton] the other county that's uh
uh_huh
huh
now where's the city the city limits
it's kind of odd that a city would actually spread over uh more than one county the city limits would actually fall into more than one county
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
in fact san francisco is entirely within the the limits of san francisco county
in fact san francisco county and city have the same city limits
so that's kind of a weird thing
but uh
huh
yeah
that's an interesting term because i mean if you if you think about it the garbage truck
well is it really garbage if they are taking it off to be recycled
and somebody's will to pay for it
huh
huh
uh_huh
right
huh
huh
you you have a very [distinctive] accent
uh where are you from originally
okay
so
uh around here we can recycle almost anything
uh we have paper and cans and uh newspaper
i guess
uh and then i guess plastic and glass it's a little harder to do
but we can recycle those as well
there's curbside but uh for items like glass and and plastic it's only like once every three weeks or something crazy like that
so you have to know what night they're doing it
and you're not allowed to put anything out any other night
so
right
yeah
so you don't have to split anything up
oh okay
uh_huh
right
well i the last place i lived was really it was in new jersey as well
but it was uh it was really a lot hard harder to do it because uh it's different depending on what town you're in basically every town is different
which i think that that's crazy that it should be coordinated by the state or something
but
yeah
uh_huh
right
oh yeah
are you living at school or are you outside of school
oh okay
so it's not just the school
that's doing it
or
okay
right
right
oh
okay
i thought they were afraid of putting them out of work or something
okay
right
uh_huh
yeah
well not for individuals
but like my company uh started doing recycling because it became mandatory in the state
i think it was mandatory in the state
but they did it
and they started a recycling program just of paper i guess
and in two years they saved like four million dollars
uh they that's how much money they got paid for their paper
they
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
so um what do you do about recycling in raleigh
is there any public program
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
well one of the um where i used to live they had a they had just started a program
but apparently it wasn't city wide because i moved over to a different neighborhood
and they didn't you know no one had ever heard of this
and um the one nice thing though is i'm is i'm is i'm pretty close to downtown so um aluminum cans be recycled just by tossing them out in your yard
and the [bums] come around and uh no
they don't have any deposit
but um you know there's a there's a [thriving] industry of homeless people that collect aluminum cans and turn them in for you know the waste aluminum
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
unless i i don't i think they only carry one bag when i've seen people out there
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that seems like it would be you know very labor intensive to actually you know go through it all
and pick out the different things
uh_huh
yeah
you know they have the cost of the cleaning equipment to clean the bottles and and things like that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i've heard that you know a lot a lot of the you know more popular recycled materials like aluminum and um paper especially that because you know everyone's become much more environmentally conscious
and you know has moved to recycle that the you know that that that that the systems basically has this very large backlog of of material to be recycled
and processed and apparently in a lot you know in a lot of industries you can't just you know take a bunch of stuff and recycle it you generally you mix it with with new material
and that and that you know with you know [coupled] with the recession that there just isn't you know the demand for you know recycled product
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i think it depends on like the little number in the circle
that they have on them because that
i have a lot of friends that you know are very into recycling you know and say you know just about
they try and throw out as little as they can you know and and
uh_huh
there is a group in town called nacogdoches recycles that will meet i believe it's once a month
at the park and you can take plastics papers or bottles
but it's up to you to collect them it's up to you to get them down there
and then what they do with them
i don't know
there isn't any somebody had talked once before to city council meeting about maybe having different colored waste cans
uh_huh
so they do that in [palestine] and nobody wanted to go for that
they were going to charge a little extra
on the bill
and nobody wanted to do that
and i save aluminum cans and to take those to the to the closest place is about
it's about thirty minutes away
yeah
and it and the last time we took some things the price is not really worth it
yeah
yeah
cause
by the time
and you save them and squish them
and they're just they were everywhere
and that's the bad thing about it and newspapers
we we started saving newspapers and stuff
well they just packed up and i have cats
well they had a field day
destroyed those
mine have some kind of paper thing
oh yes
any any kind of cardboard and paper and they just tear it up
uh_huh
both
i don't know what it is
i don't know what it is
and you can't leave the mail don't
don't leave the mail on on the coffee table or it's chewed up
and it was just really one i've got i've got several and one in particular
but then she kind of showed the other ones
what was going on
uh_huh
so now it's just a big play play time
yeah
i think if they would make it a little more convenient for us
everybody would
that's true
oh i know
and we take the little plastic bags back to the the grocery store
uh_huh
but but as far as bottles and things go there isn't any place any any close
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
it really is
yeah
i i've started saving like you said the plastic knives and [forks] and things
and i save all the little [condiments] and things
and i
yeah
things that i normally threw out
because they just give you ton
now i've got a big basket full in the refrigerator
exactly
they'll say do you want any no
i do not
but i i try and we have a lot of of newspapers and magazines and things like that
but that's
yeah
and i've got a tiny little kitchen
so the option of you know some people will maybe have four bins
one for your garbage
and then i have no room
yeah
i have
i have room enough for one garbage can
and that is it
yeah
uh_huh
so do you recycle up those products
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
probably
well they're uh out i'm out in uh california recycling has been in for a while
i mean it's yes
it's very important
now i think it's actually always been important
we're just recognizing it now that things
are starting to run out um it's um the main key to making recycling is to make it more convenient for people i think and a community
i was just in not the one i just moved to uh had basically whenever you took your trash out you could just throw another bin of recyclable
refuse out and not to be very you know you could have cans and aluminum cans and tin cans and bottles and everything
and apparently they sorted these out which increased their labor costs tremendously
but uh that sure made it easy
i mean there was like no excuse not to recycle you just need two trash cans and if it's recyclable
you throw it in one
and if it's not you throw it in the other
and take both out um so that seemed to have been working quite well um seems like the other thing to make recycling more viable is to make it more economically uh you know increase the economic incentive
uh like news recycled newsprint isn't worth very much right now because there's a lot of it available and trees are still cheap
so from a purely economic standpoint i'd say one way to to increase the [viability] of recycling is to increase the cost of the raw materials uh through selective taxation or whatever currently most things like aluminum will only cost what it costs the company to produce them um without any charge for you know long term effects on the land or you know with with minimal taxation for [replenishing] the land after the mine is gone
or health costs or all sorts of things like that
or for that matter anytime you take aluminum out of the ground you can view it as you're stealing if from future generations
and and no one ever pays them you know basically you run out of these things
and uh and then you have to start using something else
yeah
it seems like we're using up a lot of the [abundant] minerals right now
i mean petroleum will be gone in about three decades at the rate we're going
and it it just seems like increasing the raw cost of those would uh through you know more [sensitivity] of what the long term costs would be rather than just the [extraction] costs would
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well things are changing
i mean i've been really encouraged i've i mean i come from a family that's been recycling for thirty years and uh has always been you know concerned about these things
and i'm just now starting to see you know significant social movement towards recycling
um the community the [berkley] city council [coined] a term called [precycling] which i liked which is the idea of well you can recycle all these little aluminum cans and all this and that
but you can also purchase products in the first place
which uh use less resources you know
not buy those styrofoam cups not buy individual aluminum cans
if you're going to buy soda
but get some you know larger reusable cheaper container and things like that
uh they call it [precycling] in other words keep recycling
but minimize the original consumption too
well it's funny because plastic is incredibly recyclable um the problem is there's so many different types of plastic and they can't be mixed together
but any one type of plastic can be recycled just about easier than anything
because it melts down real easily
and so forth can be [reloaded] um there are a number of laws about that some things can't be recycled back into the same products for health concerns even though they're not [scientifically] valid health concerns
i mean because some you know anything will get killed when you melt down plastic
uh but and other things made to be uh can go back you know glass can go back into glass bottles and stuff
but if it's mixed plastic it can only go to certain uses it can make actually plastic lumber for like uh park [benches] and things like that
out of mixed plastic
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
although there's far a lot more could be done
there are just there are yards just [heaped] with mountains literally mountains of tires
which they don't know what to do with
so if we can do more things with those that would be helpful
yeah
yeah
and more efficient pickups and everything
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
some kind of recycling [chutes] or something
well that would be [admirable] i i think that's wonderful
well great
uh
oh the last thing as long as i've got on audience
is the uh i really want to see more recycling of batteries because batteries have all kinds of toxins in them
and they're quite recyclable
and most people just throw them in the trash or they leak into the ground water or all kinds of stuff
but most people aren't even aware that batteries are something you shouldn't throw away in the trash
i mean like japan it's illegal to throw batteries away in the trash
well those are the worst [defenders] it's because they're biggest but even some of the small ones
need to be disposed of properly just your basic ten cell batteries um once they rust out
there's some pretty nasty things in them especially the mercury ones
but um it's it's it's a regular trash item in this country
um despite the fact that if you were if you were a company throwing that kind of stuff away the e p a could give you a major fine
because it's a [toxin]
okay
nice talking with you
well the first thing for me is i wonder i see a couple of different ways of talking about what privacy is um if privacy is something that disturbs your private state i mean an invasion of privacy is something that disturbs your private state  
that's one thing  
and if privacy is something that comes into your private state and [extracts] information from it in other words finds something out about you that's another  
and the first kind of invasion of the first type of privacy seemed invaded to me and very much everyday in this country  
but in the second time at least [overtly] uh where someone comes in and uh finds out information about you that should be private uh does not seem uh um obviously everyday  
that's right  
uh_huh  
right  
it turned out to be uh uh an invitation  
from from personal parties or from these um phone answer phone uh   commercial things  
oh that that's a remarkable number  
i get them rarely  
and i'm still astounded that that one they let anyone do them and two that they have any effect in this whatsoever  
um because i'm usually so insulted by them i just hang up as soon as i recognize what   they are  
i think they [prey] on people's um inherent politeness on the phone even with the machine  
i find people being kind of polite and waiting for it to finish what it has to say  
and then they feel an obligation to respond even though there's not even a person there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well presumably those who find out such information if they are doing it i would prefer to not to be known  
and i mean you know the classic oh i don't know c i a conspiracy theories or whatever would have such parties trying to do it without your knowledge  
so there's things that invade that second type of privacy where you do know about them and possibly things that invade that second type of privacy without you knowing about it  
and i can't talk about the second one other than to to to generate paranoia  
it's a [surmise]  
and   i'd like to think that it's quite low at least in this country  
i don't think i'd like the k g b is monitoring my phone or anything like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you must have a relatively clean conscience then  
yes  
yes  
more harmed or something  
yeah  
yes  
i did  
i was just about to write a letter when i heard they canceled it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they had you [pegged]  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and um one of the problems with the lotus data base was um that it was [uncontrolled] access to who would have that information  
i mean they said they would give it out to only select companies  
but um you know just like software is only given out to customers  
i mean you can't believe that  
it would it would be [pirated]  
and they wouldn't bother to check that carefully anyway to someone who's offering you know full cash price   for it  
i mean you know you can't tell it what a company really has to do with it  
and there's something rather [ominous] about having virtually anyone any hacker being able to know what your income is what your spending habits are  
and you know and and that hacker just has to get in to in touch with the sneak [thief]  
and suddenly and then what started as an invasion of privacy can be an invasion of your actual home  
yeah  
yes  
exactly  
uh_huh  
i also thought about it was of uh waiting to talk to you that another thing that occurred to me is there is not so much invasion of my privacy because i know how to behave such that there isn't  
but i realized i have to behave in a certain way in order to not have people invade my privacy  
if i deviate from social norms of behavior if i run up and down the street yelling or something someone's going to invade my privacy very quickly  
and i realize that that i mean i can take that for granted  
but i used to i used to live in india  
and things are quite different there in terms of that  
there's less of a sense of privacy  
in fact it's said that no indian language has a word for privacy  
certainly the language i know doesn't   but just says a word for [loneliness]  
[loneliness] is the closest you can come which is really quite different  
yeah  
it's it's generally being alone is not a very desirable state at least officially  
um so there's not  
i mean doors don't have [latches] on them  
people don't tend to knock  
you just  
if there's a door closed and you open it because it's in your way  
you people walk in out  
and as a as a [westerner] in india and i was often surprised   and felt my sense of privacy there was quite invaded  
you know it very much is  
but on the other hand i realized i could go out on the street and act like a complete [lunatic]  
and people would leave   me alone  
whereas in this country where everyone respects the closed doors very much if you go out and then act like the [lunatic] you you [violate] the uh the norms of social of um public behavior  
um people start paying attention to you very much  
and they start asking questions and in the sense are invade invading your privacy although if you know what the social norms are you know quote unquote you asked for it  
but it does mean that you have yet another reason to follow a set of social norms  
and which isn't of always the case in all cultures  
and it wasn't until i was thinking about it just now that i realized that's actually something that's culturally relative  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and that's really um  
well i mean i i wonder how people have sex   and things like that  
i mean they  
you go to india  
and it's obvious you know the results of sex are quite obvious as the population goes up an extra hundred million every few years  
um but i i just don't quite um  
there's hope i actually for  
of the time i've spent there i still don't quite understand how certain things that i assume and require privacy and require not just that you be alone but actually that you have a sense of privacy  
because anyone can be alone for some period of time  
but for me a lot of what i do requires a sense that there's this invisible barrier around me which people   will respect  
and if that's gone um i i really don't know how to live very well  
and i wonder i really do wonder how people do that  
all the the other classic examples the [jehovah's] witness or or [mormons] or someone knocking at the front door um which is more [intrusive] because i have to really tell someone to go away  
and there's that sense of i have now opened my door they now see what i look like what i live like  
and and they're doing something that normally i really only invite   people to  
because i any anyone any friend anyone i give my number to is welcome to call me  
but no one is just welcome to come by my house  
so that is more of a sense of invasion  
i i think i agree with that  
i think in a good example on the typical thing that happens uh when the phone rang  
and it's t i calling  
my immediate reaction is that it's some sort of strange phone message  
and then i realize oh no this is something i [solicited]  
so my immediate reaction was one of that sense of invasion  
but after that i realized no i i really wanted this  
and it was sort of exciting  
and so   that was almost an example of an invasion that turns out to be not [invasive]  
exactly  
uh and at the same time i think that i receive on on the order of uh probably seven or eight a week calls of the nature where one wishes that there were a convenient way to just hang up on it  
commercial   solicitations primarily  
yeah  
and i think that's what makes one feel invaded is the fact that there seems to be little control  
and you one's feeling obligated   because of some sense of of the way the ritual is played out  
and and uh that that then ends up being the the most common example for me  
um i guess i'm not typically feeling invaded in my privacy relative to this second this one that you raised  
and i don't think i would have thought about that  
i think that's a good idea on your part  
i don't typically feel [intruded] on on the things uh the sense of finding out information  
to to [surmise] it is there  
well i guess although i well that's a good point where you said that how does one define what invasion of privacy is   because uh if that's the case of a tree falling in the forest  
and i'm not feeling invaded then maybe my privacy hasn't been because i have no sense of my privacy state having been invaded  
uh   if your [defining] it in terms of information gone even if it's something you don't know about it well then i guess one could assume one was invaded  
but i don't feel invaded by it  
i don't   have a sense of threat in general from those sorts of things  
i'm not sure why  
uh i guess it comes from a sense of fact or facts  
and if someone finds out something about me that is true i i don't have a sense of loss from that  
um the the other side of that might be if if someone found out something or [surmised] something that weren't true then i would feel probably more invaded in the gossipy sort of sense  

right  
because   you don't have anyway to turn it off  

did you hear about this lotus data base that was being put together  
that would be an example where my sense of threat would be high because i would find that there be a good possibly that their facts were were fantasy  
and then i would feel not only invaded in the sense that someone had obtained information from a that i would rather they didn't  
and that might be the sense of the spending pattern for instance   that that i would have thought to be private  
but then if it turns out to generate incorrect things that's even worse  
so   or if my call rate of of eight or so a week went up even higher because   uh someone had had  
right  
and the person who had takes [unsolicited] phones calls and pays money  
and then all of   a sudden you get your thirty a week because now   their advertising you  
right  
exactly  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
and i guess that turns out to be the basic problem with any invasion of privacy is whether or not you're feeling   threatened as a result of of it  
so   maybe that is a a little bit of what privacy is  
uh_huh  
oh that's interesting  
but but no concept for wanting to be private  
okay  
oh  
that that would be   that would be culturally shocking  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
that is true  
i haven't thought about that  
and and that it's fascinating to to think a lot of someone who doesn't know how to say private  
yes  
yes  
that's interesting  
are are there any other specific things that that you feel like where where you feel your privacy to be invaded on a day to day basis or either on a growing frequency  
okay  
so that's another example of the invasion because of the not so  
have you ever gotten one of those calls that is either generated by a computer or somebody going down a list  
and their either offering a service  
or they're introducing some new product in the area  
and normally when they call you're either in the shower  
or you're in the middle of cooking something  
and you have to stop everything to run to the phone  
that was the big one i'm talking about  
i work weird hours  
and invariably just about the time i'm going to sleep the phone tears off the wall  
and you are trying to crawl out of a half [unconscious] sleep and answer the phone  
you either hear the as soon as you say hello you hear the click of the recording coming on  
or you hear somebody all ready starting reading off a list of stuff that they've read probably a thousand times that day already  
i've even had some of them  
the they're voice activated  
and you've got to say hello twice before they'll do anything  
what i would love to see done to stop all of this  
we've got a thing in this country  
you can have your phone number unlisted  
and i think a law should be passed to where any of these people  
i think it's great that you know freedom of speech in this country and everything  
but if they're going to offer these services or these recorded message everything they ought to be stuck working with the phone book like everybody else instead of using a computer to go through and just go down every [sequence] of numbers for this certain area code and call them  
that's about that as far as any other everyday occurrences  
i put a stop to some of them as far as the door to door either religious groups or people [peddling] products  
if i wanted their products i would have either gone to the store to bought it  
or i would have called for their salesman to come out  
now i agree with their right to uh pursue their religion of choice in that whatever manner they want to  
but i think they should also respect the [sanctity] of the american home whether it be in a house or in an apartment  
i'm on my turf  
if i want them there i'll call for them  
otherwise i don't want to know they exist  
now the part about where you said the apartment complex puts up signs that says no soliciting  
i've even gone so far as to put that  
i've got a storm door on the front of the house  
and i've put in  
i don't know how much clearer it can be  
it's a red sign with silver letters saying no soliciting  
i should have i guess i should make another one that says religious or otherwise cause i still get  
i wonder if there would be some way we could get these people to do this get their names their addresses and their phone numbers  
and then reverse it  
and do  
well that would be technically illegal  
it would be harassment  
but i consider an invasion of my privacy   a harassment in itself  
i believe we've pretty much [summed] everything up  
i'm drawing a blank  
uh pretty close to it  
well i've enjoyed talking with you  
and take it easy now  
good night  
yes  
yes  
is is that one that you're talking about  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
or the ones that are are generated by a computer  
it's just a computer voice that comes on the line  
those are the ones that i really really hate too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sometimes i i get them on my uh answering machine at home  
so and i hate that when i've got a whole bunch of messages  
and i go through them  
and most of them aren't from anybody at all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
see i have an unlisted telephone number  
but i still get all of those calls  
and then some of them are speaking in a foreign language that i don't even understand  
so yeah  
i do  
i really feel that's uh an invasion of my privacy  
i agree with you on that particular subject there  
let me see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
living in an apartment complex though you know you can't um you can't really stop those people from coming around even though they put up signs out front that says no solicitations uh  
but they still come up to the front door and uh you know walk around  
so usually what i do is i'll call the apartment manager and tell them hey there's people coming around you know  
and they're trying to sell something  
or or they're from a religious organization  
and i really hate that  
i really really do  
i had somebody come to the door about two weeks ago  
and uh gosh it was about nine o'clock at night too  
it wasn't even what i would consider you know family hours  
time to you know start going to bed  
and uh and it was somebody from um oh what was it the uh jesus christ of latter day saints  
and uh i've read a lot about uh that particular [sect]  
and i don't particularly care for it  
so i especially don't like for them to come up to my door and and try and talk to me  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
i i agree with you there  
if they want to choose that particular religion that's fine with me too you know as long as they don't try and pull me in and drag me in  
and and i don't like the way that they do it either  
and and it's their mission that they do it  
they go door to door  
and they go out into the public  
and they actually have the uh teenagers serving two years like you would say like in an army and two years in going around and doing missionary type work  
and uh i don't know  
i just um don't particularly care for that at all  
and that that's one thing that i feel really strongly about though is uh you know people coming up to my door and especially religious organizations and wanting to uh you know to try and get me to join or you know become interested in their religion  
because i have my own  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
no  
i don't uh i don't have i didn't go that far  
but uh yeah  
i probably could do the same thing uh you know  
i don't have a storm door  
but i'm sure i could rig up something  
but you know i don't think that that would stop people  
i it's like they see that word  
and it says go instead of stop  
oh goodness  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true um  
well what else  
i know  
but i remember you you talked about something  
you started off and said  
well let me think  
you talked about the telephone calls and people coming and soliciting and selling things at the door  
you said something else  
i can't remember what it was  
and i thought yeah  
that that kind of touched a nerve right there  
but we got uh we got to talking about the uh uh people coming to you at the front door  
oh goodness  
okay  
is our five minutes up  
pretty close  
well it was nice talking to you too jim  
okay  
thanks  
bye  
okay  
where to start  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i didn't think about that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i agree  
yes  
i get some of these things in the mail that i wonder where in the world did they get my address or where did they get my name  
and in fact some of these things i get some of these [questionnaires]  
it's funny because i'm i was in the process of filling one out when i decided i would make this phone call  
but uh i haven't got to the end of it yet where it asks all that salary information and everything  
but when you have to send that back in the mail with your name on it your salary information i i just have a real hard time doing that uh  
and they ask you what type of household items do you own like [stereos] and t v and v c r  
and and you hate to send something off with your name and address  
and what types of things do you own  
and what kind of money do you make  
and you wonder well who's going to get ahold of this and think um that's a nice place to go rob  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i got one tonight about six thirty when i sat down to eat dinner  
carpet cleaning  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
right  
yeah  
i think i dislike the phone number part the worst  
i mean it's it's one thing to get junk mail because you can you can just put it right in the trash  
but it's the phone calls  
and you know usually when they call you it's going to be when you right when you sit down to dinner because they know they pretty much know that you're at work all day  
and they call you right when when you've just gotten home from work  
the last thing you want is a phone call unless it's you know something halfway enjoyable  
but if it's a salesperson it's just something you don't want to have to mess with  
and and i've gotten a lot of them lately  
or i'll  
sometimes i come home from work  
and there's a lot of hang ups on my answering machine  
and i'm just assuming it's probably a salesman that called during the day  
and i wasn't home  
and they'll probably call me up and you know call me back and bother me when i sit down to dinner later on  
but   i find that very annoying the uh mail stuff  
yeah you know  
it's kind of irritating  
but it's not nearly as obnoxious as the phone calls  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh-oh  
right  
uh_huh  
i agree with the phone too in that i'm single  
but when i come home from work there's times i need to pay bills  
i need to balance my checking account  
i need to do all kinds of different things like that  
and even though it's friends calling sometimes you just feel like this is my quiet time  
i need to get things done  
and the phone ringing bothers me  
but that's that's where answering machines are nice because if it's really important they'll leave a message  
and i can call them back  
but uh at work i have so many phone calls from customers calling in  
sometimes it is just i just want to get away from the phone ringing because it it really does annoy me  
and uh if i've had a lot of phone calls during the day when occasionally when we have uh  
like this past week  
we have to do a lot of [troubleshooting] when the [programmers] have installed a new system  
and uh phone rings like crazy  
and you come home  
and the last thing you want to do is have to answer the phone  
and if it's some salesman that just makes it even that much worse  
and uh it just  
i get to where i i turn the answering machine on and just let it pick up the phone  
but now with this thing i'm participating in i kind of have to answer it because you never know if it's the switchboard or if it's uh you know somebody calling that you really don't want to talk on the phone  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a ring at all  
oh huh  
that's an idea  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
ours is that way too  
uh_huh  
well yours is probably the same as ours  
it's uh tigon  
isn't tigon uh part of g t e or vice versa or something like that  
seems i read  
okay  
okay  
that's it  
that g t e had purchased tigon  
and  
yeah  
that's what we have  
aspen  
huh  
i couldn't remember in tigon had purchased g t e phone mail services or if g t e had purchased tigon  
i knew there was some type of a tie in there  
i remember reading in the paper a few months back  
but  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
i think we did  
that's good  
i didn't think we could go too far on this privacy thing  
but uh   i guess it's close enough  
sure good talking to you jim  
all right  
bye bye  
well i think uh  
i haven't had that much of course  
i just heard  
but i haven't had that much time to think about it either  
i guess the uh biggest thing i find is the financial   aspects uh particularly the ability of people to access you know your financial records or for example your credit uh rating   almost at will  
and uh of course flying uh  
using your social security number of course permits people to do that  
and almost anything you do now a social security number is required  
and uh of course there's another aspect of this too uh in terms of invasion of privacy  
i just thought about it  
being a professional and of course you probably belong to one or more professional organizations  
and that is that  
some of the organizations sell their mailing lists   which i think is a is an invasion of privacy  
uh_huh  
and not only that it it opens you to phone solicitations  
and i i've noticed more and more i would say over the last six months  
i am getting more at home phone solicitations   for a variety of things from  
i've had them for carpet cleaning  
i've had them for of course for you know real estate investments  
you know you get uh please send in your uh you know this particular card and you get uh a free trip or something along those lines  
and so that uh that bothers me because i of course i enjoy being at home and i do not enjoy getting called by strangers   uh particularly you know soliciting  
so having your  
and i know that a lot of these of course are random phone calls  
they just you know start going through the phone book or going through a series of numbers  
but some of them are sold  
and i know you  
talking about mailing lists the  
i  
there is one particular group to which i belong  
and for some  
the reason they have three different names   for me  
now the address is the same   you know my my office address  
but they have one under you know my first name james  
they have one under my first name and initial   middle initial  
then they have a a third one under my just my two [initials]  
and and i get mail   here at home under each of those names  
so i know that they have sold their mailing list  
and uh i think those two things bother me more than anything else   as far as an invasion of privacy  
and uh i can't really think of anything else offhand that uh  
uh_huh  
i think i think you mentioning the phone calls during dinner  
i know when i sit down with the family and want to have the opportunity you know to talk   and see what's going on and all those things  
even if friends call   it irritates me  
so i try to  
i actually during that period of time from you know usually from six o'clock or six thirty whenever i get home until eight or so i will shut off the phone  
and uh my daughter gets irate   when i when i do that because you know she's a teenager  
so she'll you know  
why are you cutting off the phone   i might get an important phone call  
but   so i guess those three things are the uh uh most irritating to me  
that's right  
well i have now we have a you know voice mail system at uh at the office  
now what i have done is i have [forwarded] my home phone   to the answering service at the office   so that i do not have to have a uh   a ring at all   if i if i want to do that  
and uh or i will just let the phone ring three or four times and know that it will forward to uh to the office  
and so it's you know it makes it convenient  
but at the office when i you know  
we can uh on our system and i imagine on most systems you can just route it directly to the answering service  
and when i when i want to be you know not bothered during the day that's exactly what i do  
and so uh  
uh  
yeah  
well tigon is part of g t e  
uh_huh  
except we call it aspen  
yes  
and uh we  
yeah  
g t e purchased tigon  
and so we had had been using a the aspen service before they purchased tigon  
so i imagine we will be uh shifting over to that service   uh for a while or if in a while   as soon as we determine what we're going to do with [contel] after we bought [contel]  
yeah  
oh dana i think we have probably [conversed] long enough  
well  
all right  
all right  
well thank you for calling  
i i   i enjoyed talking to you  
take care  
well on this subject of invasion of privacy yes it's very easy for anybody to find out about you  
your  
yeah uh  
the special on channel thirteen that was broadcast i think last week or so ago it detailed how this one person went about finding out this particular from this particular person his home mortgage how much he pays for it what his payments are uh his uh social security number driver's license any kind of records he may have uh their credit card and the status of their credit  
it was just as a demonstration to show   those who were watching it how easily [obtainable] information is on any single person  
and it was  
mostly it dealt with uh marketing companies these uh direct marketing   associations  
that was the primary subject  
that's how they [obtain] information about segments of society and group them into age brackets uh their habits their hobbies their income  
and they're able to do that through all the [manipulations] of the computer  
uh_huh  
the open office  
yeah  
not insofar as maybe making conversation with somebody i suppose because it you can easily be overheard  
and they get  
i suppose any items that you have laying out can be easily seen  
yeah  
there's there is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you work with uh mixed company male and female  
or  
well there are a few out there  
it's i suppose it depends on who you're working for and where at  
but um my own environment is open totally  
there are no [cubicles]  
there's nothing to block anything  
so yeah  
but um i guess we're changing ever so rapidly in the devices of communications that anything can be obtained from anybody's record  
or the computers the the big advent of that i believe because it they can all hold such large data bases on anybody that all you have to do is touch a button  
and it appears   in front of them  
and you don't have to  
i i know the government sells information to private companies about individuals or families  
that's no secret  
and it shouldn't be that way i don't think  
i mean it's not really government for the people and by the people  
i'll tell you that  
so  
uh the only way it can change is um if if everybody bands together  
it's just like we need to get rid of these [clowns] that's serving in the office  
the only thing really that can be changed is for us to everybody to say we've had enough of you out you go  
but uh i don't see anything like that to occur unless everybody bands together to do that  
it has to be one common ideal goal for that to be done  
um i don't know  
it's it's still a a free i suppose country insofar as we're we're able to [obtain] information  
and i wouldn't be for total banning of uh all information  
or it's mostly the private information that we're all concerned about  
but it's it's hard to define   uh a lot of those boundaries  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you've received a lot of uh flack  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is that usually what you tell them in the letter  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
good idea  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh any other problems  
yeah  
i i guess i've just about run out of  
i i can probably go on  
but it's it's uh  
i'm [clouding] up right now  
well it's nice talking to you  
maybe again  
bye bye  
well i don't really like that very much  
what was the reason why somebody was trying to find out all that stuff  
oh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
well that that's not really good  
i don't know  
i guess that's an invasion of privacy  
i'm not sure that that's an everyday thing though at least not for you know an individual  
something that i feel is a is a pretty much an invasion of privacy is something that's really so common that it's accepted as the norm now is the the open office concept  
uh_huh  
where they have the you know the little [partition] [dividers]   throughout a a large room  
and and people have little [cubicles]  
well that's all fine and good  
but you don't really have any privacy at all  
right  
yeah  
and and it's not it's not just that  
it's uh the whole thing about you know if if you're trying to concentrate well it's rather hard  
sometimes it's almost impossible to do   because um you know you're uh you're time you're space is is not your own space  
and i work in a situation like that  
and i i really kind of have a problem with that  
oh yeah  
is there anybody who doesn't  
um  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't i don't think that's that's quite right either  
yeah  
hum what do you think could be done about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it really is  
it's  
something that something that i've just had a a dealing with is like a credit bureau  
well they take they take my name which is a very common name  
and my last name is even more common  
and they they check that name against uh their list  
and they find several  
and without even bothering to try to match up any other information at all they just report everything under that name  
they don't they don't even check my social security number  
and companies are paying them good money to report accurately  
and they're not  
they're so lazy  
they're just not doing it  
i mean they just find your name  
and they match it up  
you know and that just drives me crazy because they're  
and then they want  
then you know to get it removed they say well you know you have to write this write this long detailed letter and everything like that to them you know  
and then it takes three weeks and all  
and i'm like baloney  
you messed it up  
you fix it  
no  
what i've taken to doing lately is calling the company that they report  
like uh uh recently i was reported as having j c penney accounts  
and i don't  
so i called j c penney  
and i said uh i just wanted to let you know that the credit agency you're using is incorrectly reporting the information that you're providing to them  
and they say uh_huh because they really don't want to pay for a service that's not being done properly either  
so then they can call the credit bureau and say hey you know we're paying you good money to report this properly  
and you're not doing your job  
so that's what i've taken to doing lately  
and it seems to work pretty well so far  
not that i can think of  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i probably better let you get back to work  
okay  
all [rightie]  
bye bye  
i'm actually at work  

i'm in facilities and happen to have uh weekend duty here  
i'm in the south building  
we we pull mostly evenings  
we are having  
there's three of us uh [facilities'] managers are covering the off shifts just to have somebody here uh from management to uh see if they need anything  
oh the  
how many calls have you made  
okay  
i'm uh getting close to twenty  
this is the  
yeah hopefully you have a lot to talk about in this one  
but i don't really have a lot in this one  
usually i can talk for hours on most of the subjects they pick  
go ahead you first  
okay  
good  
okay yeah  
right  
yeah  
i  
the worst one i guess is like you when it's a recording i i don't mind so much someone calls  
and it's a and it's a salesperson at least you can chat or whatever and say okay now we want to go  
and then when when they actually start off with a a computer   and expect you to talk to a computer uh that's where i draw the i just hang up immediately you know  
uh shut my other radio off here  
uh i guess they get their  
i'm i'm amazed the question about that the  
my concern would be everyone seems to have an answering machine  
and i have one too  
and they say that they can tie up your answering machine and just have a big long if they catch your answering machine  
yeah  
they they can erase all your others you know because if you have  
i think that's the way it is no mine i guess if it's full it will not take it i'm not sure  
but they can certainly uh block your answering machine so someone else calls you uh and your answering machine is full you know   it won't erase  
but your right  
that was a good one  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've got one it's not really an invasion of privacy  
but it's uh annoyance for me in the office with uh speaker phones  
you know i  

they're great for an office  
but this one guy next to me who's not here just so i could talk about him   he uses his speaker phone all the time  
and it carries over  
and so not only would you hear  
it seems to me that you talk longer from you kind of yell into it  
uh and so he [yells] into it  
and you hear the other person too  
so it's kind of a double annoyance  
he actually uh ruins my privacy you might say because the the t i offices are so open anyway   uh that i'm amazed that the fact that i'm about ready to say something uh if he's even thought of that that's a real [uncourteous] thing an an invasion of everyone else's time and and concentration to just be loud  
i don't know whether that's an invasion of privacy just being loud and and annoying you know  
uh that's   perhaps not quite an invasion of privacy  
but i think it is  
and  
we both picked phone items there  
go ahead do you have any more  
oh yeah  
that's that's a good one too yeah  
i heard something about not that exactly  
but go ahead  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i uh heard something similar to that  
i listen to  
i'm a uh uh talk show person  
and there was  
when i when i do my chores up at the  
i'm a radio person i guess is what i mean  
and so i listened to was it five seventy which has continuous talk on the weekends   and neil sperry and everybody i mean the lawyers and [veterinarians] and all that  
and uh i don't know if it was a lawyer or whatever it was talking about when you make out a a financial application all that information on there is really not necessarily  
even a your social security number you know they   you should just put down the basics and put n a where you don't want to answer  
whether it's your personal salary or whatever  
uh if your just making out a credit card application you don't need to put down  
and i was curious as to you know what specific things you you did have to put down  
but he says social security you don't need to put that down there which i thought was surprising  
so maybe there's something along that same line where you know in all these financial uh applications that you make out you don't have to put all that stuff down there  
it would be nice to know what's what was  
of course of course they could say well i can't give you a card  
and you could say fine  
but you know some things will be private you know  
but he said just put n a  
and he said usually you'll get approved anyway because they just want your money they want your card  
but if you don't feel like putting it down just put n a you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i haven't  
i don't have any friends down at the the austin plant  
but i heard that they were really upset about the drug thing  
and we seem to up here have just [breezed] through that  
and apparently some other companies are having trouble  
that i don't have any trouble with it  
uh it's kind of unusual here we are in dallas you know the biggest location and and it just [breezed] through  
and wasn't really no one was i guess was really too concerned about it uh yet in austin there there were whether it was a class action or how far it got i don't really know because t i only had a few things on t i news i think about it   that they were [objecting] to  
but the  
some people object to that which i don't mind no problem at all you know  
huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
i know  
i know yeah  
i served my time too yeah  
yeah  
oh did they object too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'm i'm all for it  
i  
uh it doesn't bother me that whether they do it in high schools or you know carry it to wherever you want to carry it really uh   uh of course that would really be a big thing in a public school  
but uh i'm saying certainly at work i have no problem with it  
uh uh and i think it is they they found that it's been very low really  
i guess maybe at the locations though i don't know if they have it done but done it by location  
i don't really know if uh they need to publish that really  
right  
right  
right  
but i think that was an actually a good thing that happened uh i never considered it i guess it's an invasion of your privacy  
but it's something that is for the good of so many people you know to   have everyone uh take the test right away  
and uh and hopefully maybe some people will convince other people that are on drugs that well uh i might as well get off you know if i want to stay so you know   if that was an invasion of privacy maybe it was good  
oh sure  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
go ahead you got me more i  
this is this is a tough one i don't really haven't thought about any of this  
they had gardening yesterday and all the repairs  
and boy i could  
oh  
oh okay  
what building do you work in  
oh okay  
okay  
oh okay  
okay  
i've only made a few  
um  
okay  
our topic for today is invasion of privacy  
so i got a good one  
when the phone rings and you've got a recording and this always happens like around five or six o'clock   at night it rings and you get this recording  
and then it won't go away  
and any any of the type of solicitation that where they call all the time you know  
there are evenings especially friday nights thursday and friday nights  
well we must get in the neighborhood of anywhere from three to six calls about that time of night  
more people call that's where you want to jerk the phone out of the wall you know your sitting down to eat and the phone rings  
and   it's like i don't want anything thank you very much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's that's real irritating to me  
uh_huh  
they can leave their whole [spiel] on it  
huh  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
that's that's a high [irritant] for me  
drives me crazy  
and it doesn't matter if you have an unlisted number or not because a lot of times these computer things will just make up numbers at random and just call them  
and so it really really doesn't make much difference as to whether or not you know you have a unlisted number or not  
and they pass around uh cards that have everybody's name on it  
like if you order something through a mail order catalog   you know then you'll start getting a bunch of stuff in and a bunch of stuff and a bunch of stuff because they sell their customer list  
or they sell their catalog list of people   to different companies and everything  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
let's see i'm trying to think  
oh have you heard that that i'm trying to think of what company it was there was a company that was going to uh be giving out information about your financial status  
well um i work in the computer science center  
and so we hear a lot about things that are that computers are capable of doing  
and uh this was a software program that a company was developing that was going to have x amount of million peoples financial history and information on it  
and they were going to sell it to companies who would up in turn [solicit] you for business et cetera et cetera  
and uh they finally uh stopped production of it because of all the [hullabaloo] it caused   because it was such a big deal  
and i wouldn't have been too thrilled about it either  
i mean there was a lot of stuff going on about it  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
well that's real interesting  
i know that a lot of times they ask for information that they don't really need   on several things and you know your credit [ap] and all all they ever need you to do is give them permission to to pull a credit thing on on yourself  
and there it is  
that's all they really care about  
they just want that credit history to see if you're a person  
if you're going to go ahead and pay your bills on time and things like that  
uh_huh  
oh i know that there's several people i've talked to that really have a problem with it  
and   i'm former military  
so you get kind of used to   to going through stuff like that  
you know you don't pay any attention to it i mean  
once you sign over your soul to uncle sam   you know you just kind of   kind of blow it off  
but  
so i think i think the people who have who have been down that route or have had it to deal with anything like that have learned you know it's just one of those things  
you just do it and be done with it and don't worry about it  
but i do know that there are several sites  
i didn't  
i wasn't aware that austin was one of them  
but i think johnson city was one  
yeah  
there's there's several of the cities that have been having real trouble with the issue   and the but also on things that i'd heard too from a [stockholders] meeting was that there were people uh there were the same places where they had a real bad problem with people fighting it were also places they had a big bad problem with the drug usage too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i don't think it's a necessary thing to publish it they just need to deal with it and on an individual basis  
i mean   if they're going to do it just deal with it and   be done with it  
uh_huh  
oh i   oh i think it's a safety factor too because you know when people are [inebriated] whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever they are very unsafe for the their co workers you know   it's like you know my father was a fireman  
and i can just imagine if you know you know some guy being on drugs they go there  
and   and you know you've got somebody that's supposed to take care of you  
and they fall they fall out because of the drug issue   you know i mean you can forgive somebody because all of a sudden they maybe get hurt or whatever that that you can understand  
but the use of drugs or anything like that   will uh be a problem  

uh well i mean i've had time to think about it because uh we've had  
uh  

there's been a great deal of difficulty in finding someone to talk to  
so   so um i i was thinking about a couple things uh   and whether they are serious  
some things are serious  
and some aren't  
i guess the biggest thing that bothers me is is uh  
not the biggest thing  
but one of the things that bothers me is the credit information uh situation   that you uh that you find yourself almost [compromised] into giving if you want any sort of credit   extensive checks and and things of that nature  
when um  
i i i mean i i don't know if that's an invasion of privacy simply i i do i do feel it is  
but i don't know whether   some of the questions they ask are legitimate   uh because they are the ones who are making the profit out of your  
uh_huh  
well i guess i guess then it's just the big brother concept of the fact   that once you give your social security number there are people i guess who are who are uh actually collecting all this all the time  
and   and [profiles] are given  
i understand uh  
i read the other day that uh these [telemarketeers] when someone talks to you on the phone   uh all all they need now is your telephone number which i guess is involved in this controversy of whether they can reveal your telephone number or not  
i i i feel that is an invasion of privacy  
but it  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
my god   yeah  
yeah  
i i have a particular subject that not everyone agrees with me uh  
uh well by  
uh i make my living by uh flying airplanes for   for a company  
and uh as a as a uh an airline pilot i have to take random drug testing  
i mean it seems to me the public [outcry] was for that at the time  
so i when i finish a a certain flight on a random basis i have to   uh have a a drug test  
and and and that's without uh probably cause  
and uh  
and   in the end now i mean they've tested they've spent forty million dollars  
and they've found uh i think uh in pilots anyway of something like uh uh eighty six thousand tests there's only been two guys have come up uh three guys have come up positive  
and one of them was a bad test  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
drug test  

yeah  
yeah  
right  
yes  
i am  
yeah  
yeah  
i i can understand the public's alarm to it  
but i guess having done this all my life i knew that there wasn't a problem  
and and it indeed it has proved out that way  
but now try to get the damn thing repealed you know  
i guess i feel bad because  
uh not only that  
but in some of the instances like you just [cited] where you have to give your [fingerprints] i mean what what happens if you say no  
if you say no then you're excluded  
and i  
doesn't seem the courts  
yeah  
that's right  
it's my feeling also that that that although  
i i don't know if it's that serious  
but that was part of the question  
i do feel the courts have have held up a great deal of of our privacy i mean particularly look in in some of the in some of the  
uh i notice in some of the sexual cases they've held up a great deal of privacy   which i support of course  
but it i guess with our fear with crime and maybe airline [crashes] and things like that it does seem that we've we've slipped and that's [eroded]  
or at least those in the market place their everyday life seemed to take that as a signal that you know it's fair game  

you you have to answer these questions of course  
uh i don't know  
i i feel there has been an erosion  
and i don't really know how serious it is except i don't like it  
um  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what was that  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well i mean it it  
just take that that step now where where now we feel there's a need to do that  
and the next thing you know then   uh there's always the need to to go and inspect [lockers] of high school students  

yeah  
i guess so  
i mean well uh good luck to you  
you just moved to texas   from minneapolis  
uh i don't   i don't hold out much hope for you  
i think they'll be a cultural shock  
i mean i was based there a lot uh several times in the service  
and i was absolutely flabbergasted at the  
in in at least in criminal law some of the some of the   [latitudes] that the police had  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
um  
um   yeah  
well i mean i don't understand  
if you if you don't  
if they don't make a criminal check why do you have to be [fingerprinted]  
oh i see  
oh the state doesn't require it  
well that's kind of that's rather that's rather unusual isn't it  
well i guess i guess the extension of that is why why not  
the next thing you know we'll just stop a random amount of [motorists]  
and then if we really think that drugs are a problem we can randomly stop anybody on the street  
oh they do  
yeah  
well there's there's all sorts of scare [tactics] i guess to to invade our privacy  
and  
yeah  
i just going to say nineteen eighty four   is come is come and gone  
but it's here  
and the computers of course helps that  
the computer abilities store that information  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what's scary is uh uh about two three four months ago on a in the sunday edition of what is called the morning paper here the dallas morning news  
they showed a reporter and a um and a copy editor how they went out  
and they just took um a fellow in john q public in dallas  
and all they had was  
let's see they had his they had something like his birth date the street address  
um they weren't even sure of the correct spelling of his last name excuse me  
and it was um very scary to see what they found out  
i mean they were able to find out what [liens] he still had against you know two or three houses through a two divorces children's names locations  
um it was really frightening  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i do too  
yeah  
i don't the other thing i don't like is um in terms of uh  
like we just moved here from uh minneapolis  
and uh to get the the very nice townhouse that we're in   you were required by the property management firm that was [representing] a private  
you know husband and wife owners um who had never done this before  
they um asked us for again an [astounding] amount of information  
and what we really didn't have the same opportunity  
you know and i guess that's when i also get upset that if you're going to do it then i want to do it too  
um in terms of the credit  
yeah  
i know um we're also going through adoption now  
in for an adoption  
and i mean after we gave our [fingerprints] to the f b i you you   look at each other yeah you look at each other and say well it's too late now  
um so i mean it's it's a matter of anybody can get it any way and how if they really try um  
uh_huh  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it isn't  
positive for anything  
see yeah  
see uh and i just started working well for an electronics firm down here  
i used to be a reporter  
and then now i'm in corporate communications  
and uh part of that excuse me was as a new hire that i had to take a drug test  
and i had never been asked that  
and i thought um i really didn't like it  
um i i have very mixed feelings about it  
i don't disagree or agree with you  
um i think i think that it's well  
and you're in that field  
so i don't know  
but it's  
you know we lived in uh minneapolis when the northwest airlines pilot in the [dakotas]  
yeah  
that hit the fan like uh  
you uh you're obviously aware of that um  
i don't know there should be some happy medium in terms of  
if they're going to do random um  
i i don't agree with random  
i guess i would look for a standard in consistency   you know in terms of maybe at set [intervals] so that everybody knows what's going on  
um i don't see a problem with that  
i do think i see some level of necessity um in something where people are transporting other people uh only because of the things you've heard about  
the problem is  
the reason i feel that way even to a low degree is because it's the old story the minority make it bad for the you know majority um  
yeah  
i'm not [alarmed]  
you can't  
yeah  
i know it's um  
right  
right  
it's a matter  
and that's um exactly what it is  
i mean that that kind of screening in general is a matter of [exclusion]  
um if we didn't give it we wouldn't go to romania  
i mean if  
you hate to say that  
but that's the way it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
in terms of the privacy yeah  
that in it  
and also i agree with that  
and in the in terms of the question um in terms uh  
i worked in medical public relations for almost a decade  
and that was pre aids and all the other um things   that were probably there but just not excuse me labeled  
and i have a real problem with medical professionals  
um it goes back to the things like drug screening  
but if it's in any level even with the potential to [endangerment]  
um and i think this is much stronger than you know pilots or uh train engineers being screened  
um the transmission of the aids virus um  


that's a real ethical problem  
i mean i don't i don't have the answer  
i i you know i mean i think of the young girl in florida who  
well yeah  
that's  
was she from your part of the country  
or was she from  
the young girl that uh contracted aids through her dentist allegedly  
and then they proved it  
yeah  
i don't i don't know um i don't know if it's the old story that we are killing ourselves in general or what um  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
the  
i guess the question is uh  
the the thing for me is who sets the parameters or who has the control you know  
yeah  
yeah  
oh it's it's  
i'm uh  
very seriously  

more than just seriously  
i'm more than likely going to be going to law school in the fall  
and yeah  
if i figure out that's still what i really want to do  
and the things i'm finding out are the in terms of things like privacy the way the law is interpreted presented  
um it's no better than journalism   um except in journalism it's words  
um this is very frightening in that uh-oh  
and in uh in texas they they they do not require for instance for [prospective] [adoptive] parents   whether it's domestic or international  
they're one of only five states that do not require a criminal investigation check  
yet if you're caught with  
let's just say um that somebody who's in  
not us  
but somebody who's need of [carting] um aluminum beer cans around  
they haven't touched them  
they haven't drank them  
they picked them up off the street  
and they want to take them to a recycling uh resource   for money or whatever  
um they've they've been going through a lot of bad publicity here in the last three or four months again um because they've been [arresting] people like that  
you know  
because um in our case one is at the state and the other one is at the federal level because you have to because you have to deal with the i n  
yeah  
because you have to deal with the uh immigration service  
yeah  
it is  
it's uh  
the whole thing is  
i mean there's again there's no consistency  
you know like in your  
in terms of you being a pilot and being tested randomly um i can't see why after a certain number of years or after a certain time frame they can't do it at an [interval]  
or you know i mean  
they they do that in texas  
they don't do it for drugs  
what they do is they check to see if you've got uh current insurance  
or they check to   to see if you're permits are  
yeah  
i know  
and it's kind of um  
what's the word i want  
i don't  
it's  
to me it's just frightening you know  
i mean the old uh  
i'm old enough now where george orwell  
uh way past time  
yeah  
yeah  
it's exactly true  
i mean i  
well look at what we're talking now  
i mean it's  
look how we're talking now  
i mean you wonder ultimately what a network of stranger you know  
there you go  
oh well people that call on the phone all the time to try to sell you something you know that that try to sell you the newspaper and uh carpet cleaning and uh what else roof repair  
and enough  
well i think it's a waste of paper the people that always leave uh junk mail and because um you just end up throwing it away most of the time  
probably eighty percent of the the junk mail that you get is is um something that you don't need  
and the same way with those calls  
what is it  
oh m c i m c i really does  
even when you tell them no they keep calling back  
m c i  
it's the long distance telephone company  
uh_huh  
well they they won't take a no for an answer here for some reason  
they just keep calling back  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you can't force them to be  
no  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
because they follow them around twenty four hours a day  
and you know they do ted kennedy  
of course he's breaking the law all the time  
so it's a different story then  
you know but but ed mcmahon i mean you know who cares about ed mcmahon  
he's probably hasn't done anything interesting in the last thirty years that they've been on the air   you know  
and he has a chauffeur  
maybe he drinks  
but he never drives a car either you know  
it's not the same with johnny carson  
uh_huh  
without your and without your permission  
uh_huh  
right  
oh good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
well you have to have the telephone  
but you can't you know  
and and it's sometimes it's hard to screen out all the calls that you don't want  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sometimes  
yeah  
some days it just rings off the wall  
no  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
even if i guess it's for coupons they they have a survey they run  
and it i guess it one of them is supposed to be a smokers survey  
but the questions go a lot farther than having to do anything with smoking  
and they ask you know they start out  
and they ask you even even to your income level  
i think that's you know  
whether you buy a t v dinner or not i don't think it has anything to do with  
what do you think invades your privacy  
m c i  
what's that  
oh now see i i really don't have much trouble with i just say no thank you and hang up  
i had a carpet service call up three times   all within in an hour  
but i uh i do telemarketing  
so uh i'm very polite  
and i just say no thank you and say no thank you very [politely]  
and i hang up and   don't bother me after that  
so i think the only thing that really bothers me is if when somebody contacts me  
and they try to get information out of me  
like the census bureau united states census bureau  
that bothered me  
i didn't feel they had a right to know how many bedrooms were in my house even  
that i think is my invasion privacy because it's the government  
and i don't understand what their need to know is  
and i think that is my biggest objection to anything as far as invading my privacy if somebody wants personal information out of me  
but telephone calls i figure they don't bother me one way or the other  
uh i know when i do telemarketing um i'm a soft person  
if if someone says i am not interested i'll just say fine and back out  
and i make very good sales  
but i'm not uh as i said i'm not half as pushy as these people because i don't really care  
i mean if if they're not interested fine  
you know that's it  
right  
and i'm not pushing something down their throat that uh i don't think is a good item anyway  
that i don't think i could do anyway  
but i feel like oh movie stars or  
sure it's part of their i guess they're portray being a movie star  
they get themselves in these rag sheets  
but uh i think they go too far  
i think that's invasion of privacy  
yeah  
oh yeah  
no  
i think my seriously my [classification] of of invasion of privacy is trying to get personal information   and putting it falsely out or just [bombarding] me for the answers  
right  
this to me is is my invasion of privacy  
anytime i can honestly say no or throw the paper away or  
but you can always write to uh-oh i forgot the name of it and stop the junk mail  
that i've done because i don't want junk mail anyway  
so i wrote to them when it came on the air  
so i don't get any of that bull  
it works by the way  
but uh the telephone doesn't bother me because i leave it half the time on uh you know answering service anyway   unless i'm home  
so i figure i can turn it off one way or the other  
but i think that's the only bottom line thing that i dislike  
because it does  
other than the u s census um  
what was it  
oh the the carpet place that called me three times  
that i felt was invasion because it was the same carpet place and called me three times  
i mean one should be sufficient  
but if people don't use the telephone  
it's like i don't know when the police has their project going  
and i don't know when the other ones have their project going and when they want to pick up down my street for things  
that's the only way i know  
and uh that's  
well see there's no way of knowing  
that's you know that's the problem  
like the product i sell uh i sell mostly to older people which can't get it in a normal public situation  
the only way we'd get to them is by telephone  
and uh most of them like it because the company i work for is nationwide and uh reputable  
and they know that hey we're backing it one hundred percent  
but if we were denied the right to call people up these people would never be able to get it  
because your normal companies that offer it do not offer it in the amounts that we do  
and they'd never have it then at that point  
because we offer it in a very low you know quantity  
so i mean i i don't know what to do as far as that's concerned  
but it is nerve [racking]  
i mean it is nerve [racking] to have the telephone  
but at least as i said you can always say no thank you  
i gather you get a lot of telephone calls  
yes  
yes  
yes  
in other words you own your own home  
i think that's where they hit most of us  
like i own my own home  
and you just know about what time  
like some days i hate staying home because the phone rings all the time  
but uh i don't know  
i haven't been able to figure that out  
something else to do about it  
when they call up and want to say well tell me this this this this and i'll give you a free something or other   my answer is no thank you i don't need it  
and they say well don't you want to know what's free  
and i no  
if i have to give them so much to answer the questions to get fifty rolls of film or something like that they're taking something away from me  
and i don't like that  
uh_huh  
do you have any  
i have i have one  
and it's a real pet peeve of mine  
it seems i i do work during the day  
and when i'm home uh you know i'm either cooking or running doing   things or uh laundry or stuff  
and i hate when the phone rings and it turns out to be a telephone salesman  
and it's real  
the two pet peeves that  
number one i really feel that that's my private you know my own home  
and i  
and if i want something i will get it  
i will go out and get it myself  
and i will never i never buy anything from a telephone   salesperson  
so i really feel that it is a real invasion they're invading my time and my space   by you know interfering in whatever i'm doing  

and i  
it really bothers me  
um it's a little bit like junk mail but except you can't you know ignore it uh quite as easily  
and i i try to be polite  
but at the same point  
well i just say thank you very much for calling but i'm not interested  
and then i hang up before they can say anything  
yes  
and it works very well  
because you don't hear you know how  
they can say anything they want  
it's just  
but i just feel that's my big thing on the invasion of my thing on invasion of privacy  
and um i have uh i sort of have a sort like  
you can prevent yourself from getting junk mail by getting yourself off of mailing lists  
i wish that there were a way that you could um get your you know submit your telephone number to the phone company and have a penalty for anyone who calls you to sell things   from a  
uh you you you you do that by uh um  
the postal service has some information which you fill out and they send  
it's for every company  
i mean you can't do it for any  
you know but you can then send it  
and they can  
they tell  
that company is not allowed to sent it you any junk mail  
if you get junk mail on a regular basis from any particular company you can  
yeah  
yeah  
you have to go to the post office and ask them for the form that you fill out to not to get you know junk mail from specific companies  
and i wish there were something like that where you can call the telephone company  
and you could say that uh have your your number put in a [registry]  
and then anyone making these calls have to check that [registry] for that area   and could not should and is not allowed under penalty of you know being reported or something to call you  
so that would be one way of doing it  
uh_huh  
oh i'm guilty of that sometimes  
because i've called and there really wasn't any significant message  
and i and i wasn't going to be available to be called back  
and it was sort of like oh the hell  
i'm not going to spend the time giving   leaving a message  
and uh i'll call later   if i'm available  
the other thing that um that there is recourse to and that's another thing is when you you use your credit card and then they ask for a telephone number  
well legally now they're not allowed  
they're  
you do not have to give a telephone number  
yes  
and i don't really like [announcing] in public  
you know when you're sitting there  
my telephone and i don't like the way telephone numbers can be used  
we once had a situation where someone was using a credit card number of ours and he actually had our phone number  
but it turned out it had to have been my husband's office phone number  
and uh we were able we weren't actually able to trace it but we were able to to [discard] the charges  
um but it was  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
same with my husband  
it was the charge card and social security number  
well you should never give the social security number  
uh if sometimes if you charge  
sometimes i charge theater tickets   over the phone  
and then you know because they pick them up at the box office we'll call  
but um that's the only thing i would ever have ever used it for the phone  
and that was because i initiated it  
uh and occasionally i do order things from catalogs   over the phone  
but again it's i initiate it not the company  
the other thing is though you do not have to  
if you're buying something in a store and they and you pay for it by charge and they ask you for your telephone number you do not have to give it  
that is one that's a law that went into effect i don't know a year or two ago  
and uh you can just say i'm sorry that uh i'm not required to give that by law  
and then they won't  
a lot of stores will still ask  
but uh the credit card company you know accepts the charges  
i mean  
a  
the credit cards company's responsibility  
so in this  
um well this would this is limited to the privacy issue the invasion of privacy  
yeah  
and i guess uh that was my that's probably my biggest one in terms of invasion of privacy for people outside the family of course  
i've got little pet peeves you know with my family  
you know but of course  
i guess that just comes with the uh with the territory with a family that  
does a mother can do some privacy  
but uh  
uh_huh  
nothing that you felt that you know  
any experiences you've had at work  
so many things i think over the years have been um accepted i mean when you uh that are no longer done  
i mean i can remember when i was very young much younger and i applied for a job  
they said well aren't you planning to have children  
well i mean that's none of their business  
and but of course now by law they can't ask that  
so i mean there has been i think a lot to done to protect privacy  
how do you feel  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
do you feel that drug testing is an invasion of privacy   or aids testing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i feel that way too  
i sometimes feel you know sometimes individual rights including the right to privacy have to be sacrificed for a greater benefit  
you know for example airline pilots  
i mean i do want my pilot to be sober  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
i feel you know i think some of the people that oppose you know mandatory drug testing for certain areas say well it's not  
i'm trying to think offhand  
i can't think of anything you know  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i wouldn't   either  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that doesn't always work  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well how do you get your name off the junk mailing list  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh i didn't even know that  
oh wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i can't really think of anything that invades my privacy  
but one of my pet peeves you came up with the telephone is when you have an answering machine and they hang up before they leave a message  
i can't stand that  
i think that is so stupid you know  
because  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't like how they  
the  
i i realize that this is your identification  
but i worked with someone that got hold of his   charge cards   and his social security number  
and you know i don't i don't like i don't ever get anything over the phone because i don't want to give my social security number out  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh i never even knew that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well is there any   like pet peeves that you have that don't necessarily invade your privacy  
oh okay  
i really   can't think of any that would invade my privacy   you know  
no  
i you know  
i i really can't say anything that would really bother me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
especially between women and  
you know like aids and all that stuff   you know with you know your sex you know  


they've gotten a lot with uh  
applications and stuff and aren't allowed to ask  
no  
because  
i think it's for the better of like  
you mean like for working and stuff  
no  
i don't because i think whenever and something like that  
they're looking out for everyone  
they're not  
you know i think it's more safety than anything else  
yeah  
because i know  
yeah  
because i know  
i worked at a still mill in this summer  
and i know   that um i've covered for people that came in drunk you know on the late shift or something  
and it and it's dangerous  
i don't even like having them around  
i kind of do their work for them because they make it more hazardous than what it is without them you know  
so what   so what gets you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i mean i  
that's exactly the kind of thing i would have said  
although in my case it's my wife and i both work  
we come home  
and just as we're preparing dinner or eating dinner   the phone rings  
and it's one solicitation call after another  
and you know  
yeah  
it's it's   like you say very annoying  
and uh why why do we let this happen  
would would you  
i mean if you could legislate something what would you legislate  
yeah  
it it seems it seems to me that we should have the ability to [designate] with the phone company that we don't want to receive calls like that  
and the people making these calls would be obliged to compare   the their lists   that they're going to call against this list of people who don't want to be called  
uh  
and that that way those who want it can have it  
and those who don't want it don't have to have it  
sort of like an unlisted number where you haven't gone to the trouble of [enlisting] yourself  
except even unlisted numbers aren't safe now because they have these things just sort of dial through all the numbers   uh automatically  
and  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
and these and these people may in fact be just looking to find an [unoccupied] house to rob  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what about these telephone callers sometimes they're door to door but usually they're telephone callers who who want you to basically help them fill out a questionnaire  
well i think these people were hired by from from different sources  
uh with you know  
and so therefore there's no one answer  
but but yeah  
sometimes it's a market basically it's a market survey  
but they never say who who they're really working for or what you know what   what what questions are you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well and sometimes that's this is just the lead in to a sales pitch   too  
other times it's you know wasting your time   to collect the data they want for their   marketing purpose  
for which if they would just pay me enough money   i would be willing to consider  
but but a dollar isn't it  
you know it's  
uh and i also sort of worry that you know that sometimes people giveaway personal information  
uh when when the call comes and and they uh you know sort of [seductive] to you know  
somebody is asking me my opinion on all of these things  
and so i start answering  
and then you you know you go down a path  
uh and you don't know where it's going to end  
uh   in fact you don't even know what you've eventually you know the [totality] of what you've [revealed]  
and you know   this isn't you know most likely not to going to be used against you  
but it could  
and   and that seems to be something that should should really be outlawed   because it's subject to abuse  
and it  
well let's see  
as far as i'm  
well the thing i think that annoys me the most is i have i have young children a baby in the house  
and and inevitably as soon as they're asleep someone calls on the phone trying to sell me something  
and i think that that is probably the most aggravating  
uh you know it invades my time  
i'm the one that pays for the phone  
uh if i want to buy something i'll take the initiative and and go find it you know  
and that just really does aggravate me  
uh what do you think  
your time is is   valuable  
and  
oh i  
that's that's interesting  
i  
the the market seems to just be growing too  
i i guess enough people are not speaking out  
i'm not speaking out that's for sure  
i just get aggravated about it  
and  
i really don't know  
i'm i'm not into uh heavy government [legislating] of a lot of different areas  
but i i don't know  
i just i do particularly find it annoying  
uh i'm really not sure  
i haven't given that a lot of thought if if it should should go you know   to be  
well that yeah that might  
identify themselves yeah  
right  
well that would be a good   an interesting way  
yeah  
right  
right  
you're  
oh is that right  
oh that's interesting  
and they just get everybody  
oh boy  
well i i do wish that it would stop on my end   because it it seems to happen at the worst possible moments  
and i i guess the next one is is door to door   solicitors  
i don't mind the children when they're selling things for school  
i have kids  
and you know that's just kind of   part of it  
but when it's adults selling a variety of things and especially when men arrive at about ten o'clock in the morning   uh that really it makes you not feel particularly safe  
and it's annoying as well  
right  
you just you really don't know  
so i i find myself being a a bit [abrupt] and a little bit [ruder] than than i might normally be  
but i do feel like it's a an invasion of my space  
and uh  
i've never quite understood the purpose of that  
yeah  
i uh  
just  
just a survey  
yeah  
there have been a couple of times when the the uh whatever the subject was i guess caught my interest and i went along with it  
and then there have been several times when i just said well i just really don't have the time you know   to deal with it at that moment  
but uh i don't get too many of those  
i've had just a few  
uh generally someone's trying to sell me something  
or  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's right  
oh  
right  
yeah  
well we  
that's true  
yeah  
you just never know i guess  
that  
yeah  
i i  
asking for information is is  
i can't really see that  
i think they ought to if if nothing else they ought to spend money for a [postage] stamp  
and you know when it [arrives] at your house oh i  
okay  
what type of things do you feel would invade your privacy every day  
yeah  
that's right  
that is really an invasion of privacy  
i i find it very annoying when i've worked all day to come in and my phone to ring constantly the solicitors and the carpet cleaning companies and  
does that happen in your part of the country  
i uh   i come home  
and i am trying to get a few things done  
and i can't do anything but answer the telephone  
some evenings are worse than others  
but i wish i could put a stop to it  
but i don't know what to do to stop it  
uh_huh  
they would think it didn't mean them i guess  
everybody but me  
oh goodness  
are you do you live at home with your parents  
uh_huh  
so your privacy is invaded probably by other members of the family  
now what can you do to stop that  
no  
just have to live with it i guess  
try to remember to respect their privacy  
and maybe they will respect yours  
and  
do you have brothers  
oh okay  
i was  
i had two younger brothers  
and they nearly drove me crazy listening to telephone conversations  
and  
i would get in the bathroom and lock the door so maybe they couldn't hear me  
and then they would go get on the other extension  
and i could hear them  
but i couldn't get them to hang up you know  
even it in the office i uh find that people walk up and and when you're on a conversation instead of walking off or just making themselves busy they'll stand there and listen to what you say until you hang up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
let's see i can't think of anything else   i'd really consider an invasion of privacy other than the phone solicitors  
about the only thing that really bothers me i don't have that many people coming to my door  
uh_huh  
and i guess that's really the thing that really bugs me the most  
i can't think  
our kids in our neighborhood used to bother me  
but they've all gotten grown up now  
and we live in a neighborhood where there is not any little kids to bother me   since mine are all grown up  
but what else would be an annoyance  
well i guess traffic could be an annoyance  
do you have a lot of traffic in your area  
uh_huh  
some days it's real real bad here  
and you would like to feel like it's an invasion of privacy because you can't even ride down the road without people all the way around you   you know  
but  
it really is  
and pretty noisy  
it really is  
i live right on a main [thoroughfare]  
so when i first moved here i probably did consider that an invasion of privacy  
because it at first you'd hear a lot of noise especially at night   you know when you go to bed  
and every time a a fire truck or anything went down the road i would wake up  
but i guess i have gotten used to it because i don't even hear it anymore  
and uh i just close it out i guess because i don't i don't remember waking up in several years at night when i'd hear a fire truck go by you know  
i think they would probably have to pull into my drive before it bothered me  
they would have to chop down the door and get you out i guess  
let's see what else is an invasion  
oh  
well did you have has name all over them  
that was yours  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
um huh well i don't like it when uh people listen to my phone conversations like if they're outside my door while i'm talking in my room   or when people like look through my things in my bedroom  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
definitely  
right  
right  
even uh we used to have a sign on our door that said no soliciting  
and they would still come to our door   and knock and  
i guess not  
no  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
mostly  
yeah  
oh i don't know  
well i am used to it now  
but sometimes it sort of gets gets to me  
but there is not much i can really do  
no  
yeah  
well i don't know  
i always  
uh no  
yes  
i do  
but they don't live at home  
oh i used to do that though because i was the youngest  
i would pick up the phone and listen to theirs  
but i  
oh  
yeah  
but i stopped doing that a long time ago  
and they still do it to me  
oh like  
yeah  
this lady does that to me at work   when i'm taking an order or something  
and she'll just sit there and listen like i'm doing something wrong  
and she just started  
and she is nice  
but  
okay  
but you know it gets annoying when they stand right over you watching everything you do  
but  
no  
right  
well occasionally we'll have a person here or there but not not as many as the phone calls   you know  
so but  
uh  
oh  
oh yeah  
especially when you're in a hurry  
um it can get busy  
yeah  
usually in the week i'm  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've traveled quiet a bit  
and i've been through dallas texas  
it's pretty busy  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i suppose you do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i am a real solid [sleeper] though  
so that probably wouldn't bother me  
i'd sleep right through it  
yeah  
it takes a lot  
i had an old boyfriend who looked through my notes one time  
i was mad because those were mine  
no  
it was a a letter from a girlfriend of mine  
i i just i was upset because those were mine  
and you know i thought he  
right  
i thought he would respect me more than that   to look through my things and not trust me  
so that was upsetting  
i was mad about that and my privacy there  
uh invasions of privacy  
uh what most annoys me are all sorts of phone calls trying to sell me things  
all   sorts of hours calling and telling me that i want investment advise and i want this service and that service or the other thing  
um my sense is that something may just have been done about it by congressmen  
just what went into the  
something about the random [dialers] that just dial phone numbers  
i guess in some cases they just consider pickup your your phone and and and not let you use your phone for a while whether you hang up on them or not  
um but i thought i saw something about it having some kind of [provision] that people could [specify] that their phones were not for commercial using  
and uh and uh people businesses would be prohibited uh from calling for for for business selling you things  
i'm sure that's true  
uh some of did too  
i think i think government can do that now  
is that right  
and uh especially with with possibly children around  
uh that could could be useful protection  
so uh i used to deal with  
what are [dialing] services  
oh oh where people just just call you  
and you know and then what those problems has been eliminated  
those problems used to be when i used a credit card   they'd want to have my phone number  
and i did not like giving it out  
i gave out my work number  
but i think i'm not sure if it's by law just  
otherwise i think the practice has basically been eliminated asking for a phone number  
how did radio shack work  
yes  
that's that's that's one solution  
but you you you nonetheless often get get people calling you  
despite the fact that your number is unlisted  
and you actually have your number  
or are they just calling a number that happens to be yours  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and they have a whole list of addresses and list of phone numbers  
i'll be thinking in mind the address is  
um is there anything you can do about that like   give out a phony phone number  
huh yeah  
i don't know  
i think it's gotten much worse the last   few years  
maybe that's just because i've gotten on more lists  
yeah  
sell you magazines  
uh_huh  
i guess whatever is  
i just don't give  
my t v down  
okay  
i'm sorry  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
i hate those canned messages they put on my recorder  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have through   the phone company uh  
no nine hundred numbers can be [dialed] from my phone or received  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
and i don't have children around  
but i just don't like those nine hundred numbers  
so   i've excluded those  
but isn't it does not stop you from the uh [dialing] services  
where they uh intend to sell you things  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and leave again that canned message on the  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well that's the thing i hated too about uh radio shack  
if you go in and buy anything they want your phone number  
and i don't think they're going to call me and ask me how it's functioning  
and and i don't give that out  
i have an unlisted number  
so i don't  
sure  
uh_huh  
well anything that you buy   um you you may get put on the a uh preferred list that is purchased  
and and companies can purchase this list  
and what that is is people who buy from the mail  
uh_huh  
uh no  
not really  
um no  
uh some of that unfortunately is legal  
so they can't stop people from uh advertising  
and that and that's what it falls under  
it falls under the [guise] of advertising  
so i don't care for it  
but is it a legal uh solution for some companies  
so that that's the way things are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well they you know  
that's that's the telephone is not the only invasion of privacy  
you've got the holy rollers  
and you've got uh all kinds of people knocking on your door and who want to uh either direct you to the right path or or want to uh sell you uh paper routes uh whatever  
so um   you know it's not just the telephone  
okay  
uh what do you consider an invasion of privacy  
uh_huh  
it's very easy  
now i've never   i've never had that happen to me either  
what do you think about places  
like i was in michael's the other night and charged something  
and they asked for my home phone even though you know the charge had been approved  
what do you think of that  
does it bother you to give it  
you know that they they now have a uh i believe it's a federal law that you do not have to give your phone number on charge tickets  
security number  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh uh_huh  
privacy  
yes  
yes  
i can see you know where that was  
i i don't mind my phone number and address or work phone being given you know when i have to cash a check  
i don't see any need for it when i'm charging something  
but i neither am i a person that has the guts to say no  
i'm not going to give it to you either  
you know and uh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i discovered with uh charge cards uh i feel like that i don't know whether it's the stores themselves that sell the list or whether the uh uh credit report bureau sells it  
but i get catalogs from people i've never even heard of  
and i know they have to be coming from my charge cards you know  
from some list you know that knows that i have a say a charge account at at [neiman's] or something  
because then i'll get catalogs that you know are within that range   that i would never order from   [ordinarily]  
and uh you know and i get i get tired of that  
i because i look at all that junk mail  
and i think of how inept our post office is and how that's taking up   you know all their time to sort  
and they're not even paying full [postage]  
you know and if you did away with some of that our postal service might give better service  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
well you know let's face it  
computers can be gotten into very easily if you if you really have the the know with all if you're you know so inclined to uh-oh what do i want to say have the smarts to be able to tinker with something like that   you know and have a basic knowledge  
they're very easy to get into  
to tap into a system  
uh_huh you know  
and uh which is scary  
i mean you know our lives are on computers  
and uh and i don't know  
i kind of i resent the calls of an evening trying to sell me something  
uh  
we are constantly it seems like  
i don't know why  
you know either wanting to clean our carpet sell us storm windows  
uh i was just now told that's what the topic was  
and uh i guess invasion of privacy uh to me for example would be unauthorized use of credit cards   for example  
and uh i guess recently one of the t v stations here uh ran a series of uh news [casts] on unauthorized credit card usage and how easy it was to get a person's credit card numbers   and use it  
and i was quite surprised at that  
i guess i can consider myself fortunate that uh it never happened to me  
i don't know what i'd really do if it did  
uh  
no  
not really because i'm listed in the phone book  
if i was the type of individual that uh had an unlisted number i i think i would be hesitant to give it  
one of the things that upset me when i lived in california was uh they did a lot of things with your social security number  
as a matter of fact they even went to the point of printing our social security number on your driver's license  
and they would not cash checks unless they had your social security number  
so we had our social security numbers [imprinted] on our checks  
and i was really you know unhappy about that situation  
i think that was an invasion of privacy  
right  
one of the biggest things i think that's going on in this country right now is the selling of uh mail lists and things like that  
you know uh recently we uh i purchased some magazines u s news   and forbes magazine  
and every since that day i have been inundated with you know uh subscriptions to this subscriptions to that uh this news letter this investment letter uh even to the point of people calling me at home  
and prior to me ordering these magazines i never got those kind of calls  
and  
uh_huh  
from some some list  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
all their time  
sure  
i think the general public would be you know uh tremendously upset if they knew how easy it is for uh let's say the criminal individuals to to get access to people's records uh their credit cards   driver's licenses checks things like that  
uh i don't think anybody really knows what to do about it  
computers caused a lot of this i'm sure  
sure  
seems as though they are  
yeah  
unfortunately  
fortunately i haven't uh haven't uh been inundated with that situation yet  
well what do you think about the everyday occurrences that are that are an invasion of your privacy  
oh  
right  
yeah  
i think that's that's the only thing i wrote down also  
because that's just a it's terrible today  
i mean my wife and i seems like we get home at five thirty and the damn phone starts ringing   and rings up until ten eleven o'clock sometimes  
yes  
i know  
that's true  
yeah  
that's true  
but you know people  
it's like your name must be on a list or something because i know at my office i get calls i mean i must get at least i probably average at least a call a day  
and a lot of days i'll get two and three calls from   from people selling insurance   you know to the small business man  
and uh you know i think dunn and bradstreet puts your according to what i understand dunn and bradstreet puts your names your name out to people also  
as far as [brokers] all i get calls from [brokers] in new york  
and uh   california always trying to sell something oil oil investments or stock investments   or whatever  
and now i'm getting the same calls at at the house  
and they get your and they get your name from dunn and bradstreet  
and uh credit card companies they sell your name  
i know   yes  
american express does that by the way  
yeah  
i understand they sell it you know they sell names because it's quite profitable to them  
and that is an invasion of privacy  
you're right  
i know  
that's true  
exactly  
magazine companies uh uh from from subscriptions do the same thing  
it's the way they make additional money  
but it's uh you know i guess it uh  
you have to be a certain income holder to uh have an american express card  
so your name is valuable to i guess x amount of solicitors calling  
so i don't know  
what what do you where are you from  
oh okay  
well so  
yeah  
we live in the dallas area richardson  
okay  
did you  
yeah  
i got i've talked to people in utah people in new york  
and a lot of times i'll call eight or nine o'clock in the morning  
and i'll get people   you know from out of the uh out of the state  
i'll be darned  
where you from  
not from texas  
new jersey  
right  
yeah  
my wife's from new jersey  
yeah  
from uh saddle river  
she  
okay  
well that's nice too  
really  
yes  
my wife's been away for twenty five years  
so she's been away for quite a while  
her dad was from little rock arkansas  
and her mother was from new york  
so they just   they over there in new jersey  
uh and anyway this topic is is a good topic as far as invasion of your privacy  
but that's the the biggest one i can think of is just just all the solicitors calling  
i know  
that's a that's a good suggestion  
i might start using the answering machine more because   it's so hard to not pick up that phone when it rings  
right  
sure  
yeah  
you're probably right  
i understand  
i mean i  
it's hard to believe there's that many [deputy] [sheriffs] associations  
and  
i know  
they call you one time to send three kids to the   carnival or circus  
and  
right  
there's always a  
and i my my pat answer now is well you just called me the other night  
well the uh  
what i really i don't like is the the constant calls people selling things   people telling me i want things   you know people trying to [solicit] for different you know organizations  
you know that's what i really  
never stops ringing  
right  
that's right  
well you know the the great uh thing for that it's uh is is an answering machine  
i mean this is this is the one of the best [inventions] ever you know  
you just switch that thing on  
and uh  
yeah  
um even in an office  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
i know  
oh yeah  
uh well you know these people they sell your names  
i mean  
you know i  
that's also an invasion of privacy  
i think it   the whole thing is uh  
oh they do  
well sure it is  
that's right  
well you know if you've ever gotten anything you know in your life your your name is somewhere  
i mean one magazine and boom they got your name forever  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
that's right  
oh i'm from texas  
oh we're in plano  
well you know the only call i really got that well was out of state  
i got one from oklahoma city and one from california  
and that was uh california  
i was thrilled to death because that's you know the furthest i'd gotten any call from you know  
and um  
oh really  
oh  
yeah  
see well that's uh the there was another call on saturday saturday that was also from uh that was the one from california  
i don't know why i ask people on the weekends   from out of state  
or uh i don't know you know  
but  
uh originally from new jersey  
yeah  
oh really  
what part  
oh that's nice over there  
yeah  
we're from more uh from sort of towards the shore central   new jersey you know  
we're like uh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
it was beautiful  
that's why i i really miss it  
i i don't really like it here at all  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so they  
yeah  
well yeah  
i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
and then of course they call you know  
before i got the answering machine it was ridiculous  
you know i said this is absurd  
i you know i the minute i get home the phone would be ringing  
oh it's great  
i mean  
well you know in fact i've been missing calls from the t i switchboard  
because i i always have it on   you know  
and i'll get that that message that says uh to uh um you know uh end this call press three  
and i assumed i you know it was from the switchboard  
you know  
yeah  
it is because one day i listened you know and it was   you know  
but um i i just got totally disgusted  
and then you know people asking for for money for everything you know  
i mean   exactly  
and you know the [policeman's] associations  
oh i used to do that  
yeah  
i used to do that  
i'd send or three kids to the movies or something  
afternoon doug  
it certainly is uh going to be a pleasure to chat with you  
and i'm uh certainly was surprised to uh to hear from you  
normally i talk to people in plano texas  
how did you get on this list  
well okay  
all right  
well now what would you say about these everyday invasions of our privacy  
what ideas do you have on that doug  
in what manner  
uh_huh  
well the thing that i thought they were uh concerned about was was people calling on the phone from all over the country to sell you something  
and in reality in many cases they knew or they had information about you that was purchased from some other organizations  
and i thought was uh beginning to invade the privacy of people because the things about where you live and and maybe what you purchased in past months is then put down and sent to someone else in the same business  
and they in return come back and try to sell you something with this additional knowledge  
to me that's an invasion of privacy  
uh_huh  
you mean your history in regards to uh   the charge card company or something like that  
do you consider these serious uh problems  
uh_huh  
well what should we do about it  
or what could be done about it do you think   to correct it  
well i would think that uh information held on records uh by any company or charge card dealer or person should be absolutely private and and not be allowed to be uh to given out by those companies  
i mean it should be made a a uh national or a state law to protect people so that uh you would then feel more free to deal direct with these companies  
in other words if you call the company yourself directly uh and then know that what you tell them will be on their records but will not be available to anyone else uh you know from the outside so to speak   then you would you would feel more free to uh to go into detail with them  
but but we have no control of that now  
and then uh you you're when you're talking with them you really don't want to tell them everything that's on your mind because you you feel that it someday might be used against you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
uh through nancy [dahlgren]  
she um she had somehow gotten the information from t i   and was distributing it around  
um see i'm not sure that  
i don't think they're necessarily widespread in this country  
but i think that the opportunity is definitely there for um people to invade your privacy when they want to  
i think it's um  
well it's certainly not that difficult to tap a phone  
it's completely trivial to for instance listen in on someone's car phone or walk around phone since they're just radio signals  
it's um  
and let's see  
well what's the first thing that comes to your mind  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree with you there for sure  
um and i think that all that information is quite easy for anyone to get  
it's possible for almost anyone to get information about your credit history for instance if they just um twist the right arm or claim to be from the right organization when they're calling the credit company  
it's you know possible for a thirteen year old hacker with a modem to find out almost anything about your personal history not to mention change it if he wants to  
well um  
well yes  
well for instance yes um  
and they'll probably goes into other things like you know your records with the government or utility companies or anything  
um uh not not yet anyways because i don't think they're widespread enough  
but i think they have the potential of becoming serious problems  
um   i'm not really sure because the i mean society is going more and more electronic  
and there are certainly benefits to its doing so  
and it's hard to hard to say whether the um risks have potential of [outweighing] the benefits or not  
and i'm not sure what can be done to ensure that they don't  
why  
do you see any out for us  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i  
uh_huh  
so do you your privacy being invaded at any time  
well  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
now that you can still yeah  
i've always done that  
i started  
once i found out that that's really not necessary or legal then i just refuse  
and i say what are you going to do  
you going to say you don't want to sell me this product then   that's fine  
i'll just buy it somewhere else or not buy it at all  
and then ultimately they say no  
you don't have to put it down  
but uh really it's part of this [compliance] thing  
uh the thing i don't like  
i know that certain states actually sell their uh their lists like uh motor vehicles  
that really burns me because hey you're required  
you have to do that  
and nowhere does it say you asks you whether you have permission or not to sell your name or information regarding that to anyone  
and i think that it it's one thing to uh voluntarily give it because someone asks  
you can always refuse  
but it's another thing where it's required by law  
and then they go ahead and take that information and sell it to somebody   you know  
i don't think i don't think they have the right to do that  
well that's easy  
whenever you donate money to someone  
they you become put on something like a sucker list  
and you start getting millions of calls or   solicitations  
and then you  
it kind of makes you feel from doing it again  
like uh national public radio or any of these the public uh stations you know  
i i i i think i sent in in money for once to uh to public uh t v  
and i started getting calls from all sorts of diseases and [syndromes] and   everything you could imagine  
i  
it's like  
and it just started soon after i had done that one  
and i just said this is this is terrible  
uh and that's also happened to me where i've given money to my old alma mater in college  
and uh it's one thing  
they don't sell the list  
but the thing that makes me mad is uh then they start getting uh other people  
the people do these [phonathons]  
and they call you up  
and they actually happen to be people who are graduated in your class or something like that  
and and they say oh we we know you  
you uh had uh contributed x amount last year  
can you do better this year  
and you know like hold on here  
who how do you know that  
why why you even telling me this  
is it any of your business  
i mean it's one thing that i and the college knows that  
that's   just our business  
there's no need for someone   who is soliciting should know at all  
just uh  
and that was very offensive too  
i  
and so  
uh_huh  
right  
well uh one of the things that uh that i found to be uh an invasion is when i pay for something with a credit card and they ask me to put my telephone number on the on the uh credit card bill  
that   is something that is not required  
and in fact uh it is actually prohibited  
but it doesn't stop many people many people from uh from doing it  
and it's one of the things that it's used for primarily is for demographic uh research  
and to get your your phone number on uh uh lists for phone solicitations  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh that  
i agree with you there  
that's something that uh people have seen  
oh here's an easy way to make some money  
but uh i don't know if that's been challenged in the courts or not  
i i've heard fairly recently uh some talk about that in this in in my state  
uh the budget problems up here are are pretty tense  
and people are looking for alternate ways of uh  
[enhancing] revenue is the uh phrase they use  
and they were talking about selling the d m v lists  
and there was a lot of uh a lot of uh [consternation] about that  
and the last i heard they'd backed down from that idea  
but it really makes you wonder what other lists you're own that have been made uh public that you   don't know about  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
how do you know that  
uh_huh  
last year the uh lotus development company the uh   company that puts out one two three   was planning on marketing a uh c d [rom] with people's names sorted by number of different criteria  
so uh what things do you consider an invasion of privacy  
oh i don't know  
i had a little bit more time to think about it  
i was thinking of like uh  
i don't know  
i was started to think about all the big you know data bases they have with all the information about you on them like the credit reports   and all those you know demographics studies that they do that um you know have who knows how much you know stuff about all the purchases that you've made and everything kept tract somewhere  
and i don't know  
i don't know how much the stuff actually what they actually have in there  
but   i know they use that i mean they sell those  
yeah  
that was that that was the other one i was thinking of  
i think that's uh  
i mean i know drugs are illegal  
huh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i i think the i think that you know a person's [competence] should be more determined by you know their actions and their behavior  
and if they're you know if they're on some kind of you know controlled substance then you know it kinds of takes away from the job of you know the supervisor or manager type person you know who is able to evaluate them  
i think they should be evaluated that way rather than with a you know a chemical you know  
these people that are [carriers] and don't   that don't reveal it  
yeah that would be kind of an extreme  
i mean i've heard of things like you know making them you know marking them somehow or you know or something like that or you know putting them all someplace like in a kind of  
yeah  
i guess it kind of borders on where i mean what do you value more the invasion of uh the person's privacy or the possible danger to you know other people  
yeah  
i guess that's that's been the big role of government i guess i mean generally  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's kind of a difficult one to go into  
i mean that that particular case  
because i mean there's a lot of people that uh i mean they could require you know obligatory aids testing for everyone because i'm you know there's a huge part of the population  
not a huge part but a you know  
the aids population i guess that have it that don't know they do   are spreading it  
but again to require you know such a test and and then to make make it is to subject them to to [discriminatory] practices and other things  
i don't know  
uh i don't know how exactly i feel about that  
ooh well i don't know  
what do you think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
well what about uh required drug testing uh as a uh condition of employment  
it thing actually  
uh i uh have worked at texas instruments  
and uh they instituted a drug policy there drug testing policy where they randomly would test uh employees  
and actually to tell you the truth i really did not think much about it  
i i hadn't you know  
it really didn't relate to me  
but there were some things that people brought up like well what happens if they they get a false positive you know what recourse do you have  
and also uh uh this is against the law for the government to do this kind of thing this kind of big brother activity  
and yet uh a lot of these large corporations such as texas instruments although they don't admit to it it's actually oh a drug testing policy comes about as a result of government pressure  
so what that means is to me that really it's the government that's requiring this  
although they don't actually execute it themselves it's really the government that  
so in that sense it at least [philosophically] it's really borderline legal  
well what about this uh aids epidemic now  
where you find that uh uh you know certain people are actually are are criminal in their disregard for   others  
yeah  
and   and uh of course the ultimate solution is to operate on their brain so that it doesn't  
it uh it destroys their [libido]  
now uh you know if they ever  
so what about that as an invasion of privacy  
so really  
it gets to balancing uh personal freedom against uh the general welfare   of society  
well it it's supposed to have been  
no  
it  
a growing part  
uh_huh  
maybe chop their [weenies] off  
i guess i guess by what you said you're you don't feel you're uh privacy has been invaded anytime recently  
uh_huh  
right  
uh no  
i wouldn't call it invading my privacy by any means  
uh you know i would  
there there's a lot of times though uh you get those calls and you know when you're sitting at home wanting to relax or or whatnot  
and you know next thing you know uh someone calls and wants to sell you this or that  
and it's real hard to to tell them you know that you're not interested  
or you do tell them you're not interested  
and they still keep asking you you know and keep [badgering] you about it  
and that aggravates me  
but i don't know that you could call that invading of invading my privacy  
because you know if we don't want that to happen all we have to do is just call the phone company and say look you know i want my name unlisted or want my you know  
it doesn't  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
good grief  
well let me ask you about this  
here's something that uh has been kind of concerning me lately  
my fiance received a bill from a a lord and taylor company  
uh you know they're a they're a department store  
she received a bill from them uh that she had visited some  
and and i think it was there in florida  
maybe it was in miami  
that uh she had visited a store there  
and uh they had this bill uh that she had bought such and such amount of merchandise uh over two hundred dollars worth of merchandise  
uh and the date that that she supposedly made this purchase she was in denver with me for thanksgiving  
uh and apparently what had happened is someone used her social security number  
uh and and i've i've heard recently that uh uh that this is a common occurrence where people are using you know  
they use joe [blow's] uh social security number uh and can uh potentially ruin someone's credit  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
well we got it cleared up eventually  
what happened uh  
no  
not really  
uh uh the only thing that annoys me is when uh people call and they uh you have solicitation calls  
that's the only thing that bothers me  
that's not really invading my privacy  
uh do you feel that yours is invaded  
but but that doesn't work  
uh no  
because they a lot of times they dial [sequentially]  
they get your name from uh if you enter any type of contest or anything  
uh you know you enter a [sweepstake] in the local department store for a shopping [spree] or something  
you put your phone number on there  
they pass your phone number on to another company  
uh or you uh  
or or like the newspapers they just dial randomly or and stuff  
they even call the newspapers here even call people who already subscribe  
and uh while i was subscribing to the paper i got so upset at them that they  
you call me one more time i'm going to stop subscribing  
and the local local papers ask them to remove your number from their list  
and uh yeah  
you call up their regular during regular hours  
their uh they have a special department  
they'll take your numbers out of their lists  
uh but the uh orlando paper uh yeah they they refused to take it off of the lists  
and they call every month  
and when you have more than one phone number you get a call on each number you have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
if you know a person's social security number and their mailing address and their mother's [maiden] name   uh you can basically become that uh person  
uh if the purchase was made mail order they should have a record of where it was shipped to  
and since it wasn't shipped to her address she could prove you know that it wasn't her  
uh if it was some you know coming into the store and stuff then she would whoever made the purchase would have had find some kind of uh you know document  
and uh  
the signature uh  
they should be able to provide you a copy with that signature  
and if they can't provide a signature you know they'll have to eat the charge  
but if the has you know their social her social security number i'd be real concerned that they uh that she's not uh [blacklist] on uh what is it it's [telecredit] or something  
uh because she won't be able to cash checks because most places verify through there  
she probably won't be able to open a checking account or anything without a lot of hassle  
well what i consider invasion well maybe it's just invasion of my private time is we get a lot of those computer generated uh telephone calls
where they just you know go through the list
and whenever you pick up the phone
it's a recording
and there you're supposed to hold on for a very important phone call
and i feel that if it was so important that they would uh be there instead of putting me on hold
yeah
we uh i don't know why it is
but there have been so many of those that um instead of the the usual sales calls that you get that they um will just run through the list
and i guess wait for someone who's going to hang on to talk to them
but uh yeah
we get a lot of those
almost sort of like these t i phone calls
no
right
right
no
these these are beneficial too too uh for personal uh benefit here
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
[swampland] in florida
yeah
we get a lot for uh aluminum siding
and uh but yeah
do you all have what do you consider your invasion of privacy
right
right
that seems to be the prime time they call
is is definitely
well between uh six and eight o'clock i guess
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
i'm surprised they don't though uh i
but i'm sure if they did that uh there would be a lot more uh public uh uh voice about it
that uh we wouldn't go for that
uh_huh
right
and what's so bad about it is um
and they don't
i mean all it is is they just go through down a list of numbers
i mean they don't know who they're calling
it didn't seem like uh it
they're just a [haphazard] uh at it
so i don't know
right
right
uh no
not yet
uh_huh
now we've gotten several of those letters as far as trying to uh sign us up for you know like you you've been uh approved for a you know for a credit card and all this
and uh i've always wondered how
and uh why
now we had a problem not too long ago our uh my brother in law recently moved
and uh somehow or another we got their new address on our credit reports because the uh i guess the credit card companies or whatever sort of keep up on some of them
and uh had uh picked up the new address and was sending all our bills over there
so it was like okay now wait a second here
so it'll be interesting to see how that works out how messed up things will be
yeah
so uh that was a mess
but uh yeah it the there was a report not too long ago on the news here on uh they were going about how easily
it was to get information about anyone
and uh you know they got a credit history um you know went through all the moves that they made you know their uh it was just amazing the stuff that they got
and it was so easily you know it was all public uh information it seemed like
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
we're in one of those counties
and uh it uh you get lots of interesting things in the mail
in fort bend county in southwest houston the seems to be the the up you know the uh the new generation or whatever
the up and coming people are all are moving out this direction and uh the new it's funny to see how the different stores are now changing uh to the um new demands and uh or trying to get the different uh people in and so uh but yeah
i do
you know you brought a good point about the uh the credit histories the credit reports that uh i feel is an can be an invasion of privacy if it's used wrong
and uh should be so
uh_huh
um
that's right
because isn't it
uh about fifty dollars to get one
oh is it
oh okay
i was thinking uh maybe i got some wrong information somewhere
right
but it it's difficult to change those or or to correct though
right
right
oh i bet his wife was like okay come on what are you not telling me here
right
the second life here oh oh well i enjoyed talking to you
and uh uh you i guess have a nice day
define everyday occurrences
every time you use a credit card
every time you log in to a computer terminal particularly where you have access to a to a network anybody can with the right kind of skill and tools get very much involved in those things which are on your system that you don't particularly want exposed that's why we have such security measures for our corporate information
if you absolutely
uh_huh
that's right
when was the last time that you used a credit card that they didn't ask for your driver's license as well
really um
uh_huh
well most of our checks are even printed with our address our even our driver's license numbers are printed on there because they require that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
but we're talking about people who are interested in invading your privacy people who have a reason to do that
people who are interested in building data bases of information about your financial background your educational background uh one of the biggest fraud scams that i've heard of recently is people who have access to such information
and they find out who's a widow and what she's worth
uh_huh
uh_huh
there are very vulnerable people though older people are very vulnerable to such things
and they tend to to uh_huh
uh_huh
well on the other hand how can you be savvy with so much out there today
there are so many clever scams and and many of them are computer based
and they're based on information that's available in the public realm uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
did you have you registered for a conference recently
okay
did they ask for your fax number
okay
i registered my people for several conferences in the past six months
and they'll ask for your telephone number
and they'll also ask for a fax number you would think on the surface that that is for rapidly sending you [confirmation] of your registration or your hotel or something like that
not at all
those fax phone number lists are being sold in exactly the same way your street address numbers are sold and you now get solicitations over your fax and you don't expect it from that source therefore you're not as uh you know you're not as leery uh some some cases
but it it exists is what i'm saying
those avenues exist
uh_huh
i heard a story not long ago this guy saw a really attractive young woman and he said hey i'd like to know this girl more so he wrote down her license plate number
and he called a friend in motor vehicles and got her address
and her telephone number and then he called a friend that he had in the credit bureau and he got her financial standing okay
from that he also got her social security number and certain social security information is uh a matter of is it is accessible if you know somebody in the government so before it was over with
he knew that she was divorced
she had two children
what school they went to what her average income was he knew that she'd gotten a boat in the divorce because he was able to get those public records
he knew all about her
and he yeah
i don't really remember that
and i mean you know he was relying on her not remembering or or not being willing to admit that she didn't remember him
and just moved right in on her
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's true
i'm still getting lists from many many years ago
or getting junk mail from a list that had to have been made years ago
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
of course
no
you can't stop them from selling your lists
although some of them really are honorable organizations
and they will say if you prefer us not to put your name on a mailing list then we will not
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
and you have to really do some research or you do not find out who is legitimate and who is not
and sometimes finding out who is legitimate and who is not is more difficult than finding out public information about people
uh_huh
uh_huh
absolutely
that's right
uh_huh
oh yeah
you bet
you bet
and with computer technology now
look how spooky
it is for how accessible these things are
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
way to go neat
that's great
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
they don't put as many of those [prepaid] envelopes in there anymore
not as many as i've seen in the past
um
uh_huh
yeah
um that's possible
i really don't understand that either
but my stars some of it sometimes it's very difficult
now the gasoline credit cards require your license plate number as opposed to your drivers license
although some of them have a blank on there for it
they don't generally enforce using it
um i've not seen one of those
okay
what do you feel are everyday occurrences that are invasions of privacy in your opinion
i i agree one hundred percent
especially whenever it's like they keep stuff on your record like for seven years
and they don't bother like i know at one time i was unemployed or something
and and they they kept it on my record for like seven months
even though that i seven years
even though that like you know i i uh they sent a letter in
but they didn't bother to include the letter for the explanation why i got behind or anything like that
well that too
well that happened with me
i um i had had a a doctor's appointment at at uh university of chapel hill hospital
and there was two william [parrishes] and they were charging me for this other person
and i went through like six months of you know because they kept billing me
and billing me
and billing me
and i was like you know i'm not this person
i'm not seeing you why are you charging me
and i mean they turned me in to the credit bureau they even held my taxes
yeah
i mean it went a long ways
my refund you know
and it was it was a mess
and finally
i got it straightened out
but it it took me almost a year to get that straightened out and it was for something you know another william [parrish] that wasn't paying his bills or either else they wasn't you know charging him
but it was really weird
i think the biggest thing i think that are is not just
well not for the average person
i i think like the media is is getting a little bit overboard on the invasion of privacy on like different
on public figures yeah
that some of the stuff that they're like like the [tabloids] and stuff are
are saying it's like really like
i think [joan] collins i believe right now is having a lawsuit against i think it's the national [inquirer] for taking pictures of her when she was getting [undressed] in her bedroom and published them
and i some thing i think should be private
i would hate to know if i was getting [undressed] in the bedroom somebody was taking pictures of me
and i believe
they've got something
now i read in some science magazine or something where they have a [infrared] camera that can take pictures like with inside your house to see if you have any drugs or anything like that
i think that's kind of an invasion of privacy too
yeah
oh yeah
to see if you've been drinking and driving
well i i had something like that happen to me too
um i worked for the hilton for a while
as a [banquet] waiter
and um one night whenever i got off work you know it was like two or three in the morning
because it was a big party
and you know i pulled out of that little road where you pull out of the hilton on the wake forest road going home
and i looked up and i seen you know blue lights on
and i thought god i just pull on the road it can't be me
so you know like i pulled off the road and i you know pulled off the side road and the car followed you know the police car pulled me over and the next thing i know there was eight cop cars
and they all got out with guns and everything
and it it really scared me really bad
well they they said that it was suspicious behavior and i looked at you know the highway patrol and i said how could it be suspicious behavior of me waiting until a light was green making a left hand turn in the correct lane what's to make you know
and they they went all through my car
and and you know while the highway [patrolman] pulled me back there
and i i think they gave me a ticket for driving without my license
they did
yeah
without my permission
so i thought i was really offended by that i thought that was a severe invasion of privacy
and i think some of the laws that they're trying to pass right now um especially in north carolina
uh i mean
life is
yeah
well you know there's something that um i really find kind of maybe it's not an invasion of privacy
but it's kind of annoying
um you know phone calls uh automated you know
i mean i i find that really [offencing] or offensive yeah
and they don't stop
i mean they you know you call and it could be any time of the day
and what happens is is they'll call especially those computer ones
they'll call and and they don't you can't get them off the line you'll hang up
and you pick it up a minute later
and they'll still be on there
yes
i just had you know that just happened a couple day of i guess it's kind of fresh in my mind because this happened a couple of days ago
i picked up the phone and it's you know they started talking giving me all this [spiel] and then you know you try to hang up because there's there's nobody to talk to
there's only just a
you hang up
and then you pick up to make a phone they're still on there
i know i know that is
yeah
but as far as uh invasion of privacy
i
there really you know i guess i'm kind of like you i don't really find things a whole lot that i feel like it's a invasion of privacy um
oh i know
yeah
yeah
well i guess you know there's
um i i guess i don't think about that very often because it it has become the norm you know
um
yeah
and you they find i mean they find out everything about you
they want to know your you know where you live
what
you do what you know
and some of the questions yeah
and some of the uh_huh
yes
you know sometimes
it does happen
you know sometimes they would you know somebody would call on the phone and and uh you know you think it's just regular type questions
but really
they are kind of [prying] into your your life you know
you they want to know uh where you live
how long you been living there
do you own do you rent you know what time of the days they're usually home
what uh you know
and sometimes you know you just kind of go through the routine of giving it out
and then you think about it afterwards
why did they need all that
they don't
yes
uh_huh
right
oh yeah
oh yeah
yep
but uh
i guess it is
i'm i'm in that area
so it's uh
well i'm
yeah
i'm in sales
so i
you always kind of uh you know i know that when we when i sell a product to a new customer that's always the first thing that i ask you know is about their credit
and you know would they have to fill out a little credit application with with us
and sometimes i feel very uncomfortable in in doing that
uh
you know
but i know that in order for our company to survive we can't you know uh
don't want to take the risks so um i suppose some of those uh you know this that's the funniest thing is be rare
i mean maybe one out of ten do we check on it
yeah
you know
but it's kind of a routine type thing where you
just do it
and and you file it away
and uh you know at random
we'll we'll go ahead and check on it
but um it's not
no
huh_uh
so you know i just gather the information and and somebody else uh you know at their leisure time uh will check on those credit references yeah
most of them are
yeah
most of them are but they're not all you know they're not all you know they're not all done at the same time
and uh you know i i wonder about credit uh
i feel that the mail is also it's the telephones and the [mails] that get me i think the [mails] all these ads
and things that they send and there should be a limit on that also
not only financially
but it's costing me and us
really
in advertising we're paying for all that junk that we throw in the that's right
and they have a
and then you get your list there of privacy you know out of that comes the um
and then then being able to use your name
and that's invading your privacy
to me now that is
one of the biggest another big one
taking your name from lists
uh_huh
i know it is it's outrageous
how you get the piles of it
and uh and then it even gets to the point where they um oh they can mess up your credit bad with it
you know as far as your with your um when you get on all these lists and all
they can invade that part of it
and i know there is a number
i think that or uh the post office you can send in a number and i don't have it myself
in fact i thought of getting it
my sister has it and said we she'd give it to me
and she lives in ohio
and uh there is a number that you can send or a place that you can send to the post office and give them your address and tell them you don't want anymore of this
and i just haven't done in fact she was just telling me about it recently
so i thought i might check with her on it and get that
number and and have a lot of that junk mail stopped because i really
that
it's a big [irritant] to me
uh_huh
we are
and door to door soliciting
can be another
don't you
yeah
it's a it's as much as a phone call
you know invading your privacy
and we do hear a lot of it in richardson
there's quite a bit
of it
i did have to laugh though they had the um they had the invasion of privacy law uh for weekends now here in richardson
they signed me to see uh on saturdays and sundays there is no soliciting allowed
and they even stopped the little brownies and girl scouts from selling their cookies
and that really got us
and we laughed about
it because with one of the um editorials on it was it was great
the guy went on about how the little brownie or girl scout came to the door and the police arrested her for selling their cookies
and it was kind of a cute
pun against that part of it
but you know where do you stop it's true
really
oh really
uh_huh
oh well that's good
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
now that's true
and it is an and each time it's a breakdown
of our system you know each one is a breakdown of our systems
of your your own privacy
that can be very [irritable]
okay
it it's
i i'm i'm not sure
if there's anything i could really term invasion of privacy that happens regularly
except maybe like [telemarketers] and things you want to buy some light bulbs
yeah
[pens] boy they they they're [tugging] on a few strings at once
aren't they
yeah
yeah
i i got some call last night
i'm trying to remember oh this was like this is kind of an invasion of privacy where uh i went to a wedding [expo] because i'm getting married and uh there are like you know uh these places where they say you know sign sign up for a free whatever you know for a drawing and you do it
and you know all of a sudden this guy is calling you and saying hi
we want to call you know and talk about video taping your wedding when shall we set a time up and i couldn't get the guy to get off the phone
it's like how many what what part of no didn't you understand you know
yeah
same here
family right
yeah
i did they they fixed it
so you had to give some information out
but
right
yeah
they
i i think in general
you know technology as nice as it is is causing a lot
it's just too easy now to
it's like you know pay banks used to be you know you could do anything over the phone
you had to know your pin number
but i could i could just say to it empty my whole account out if i wanted transfer things
and there there's a lot of of risk involved there because you know it it's like you know the best example is probably credit reports now
where you know god knows what goes on those things
i mean [thankfully] now you can get your reports for free at least from t i w
but it's like it's this anonymous thing where anyone can dump any information they want about you
in there with no real opportunity to [rebut] unless you want to go and get the report
and then you know then you find out you can go for a house or something all of a sudden you find out what all these people been you know dumping information about you
in there and i've heard of cases where it was just done [vindictively] yeah
yeah
yeah
when i when i applied for my gold mastercard they said well you have to close this other mastercard out you mean the one i closed two years ago
and i had to get a letter from this other company saying that i had closed it
oh it it's very [slippery] though because you know it's one of the things you do when you when you sign those little credit applications is there's all sorts of [disclaimer] at the bottom about how you know you're permitting them to do credit checks of you
and to make your information available to other people
and by the time you get through reading it
you've basically permitted them to you know broadcast on the evening news your credit rating
right
right
well you know there's much more subtle kinds of invasions of
privacy like every time you call an eight hundred number
you're giving them your phone number
yeah
we probably both signed up for this in the same place
a n i
yeah
but to some extent i'm not as worried about that
because yeah
you're getting a value for that you're getting to call these people for free
wendy how would you like to start off
and everyday occurrences that
uh_huh
uh for an invasion of privacy
i feel like uh when i use write a check
then they want my driver's license
and they write down my number or or when i use my visa card
they want my phone number
and they put that into their computer then they can look up
yeah
and they look up where i live
and uh then they mail me stuff
and you know what uh we have is
we've got our credit card number on our uh guarantee card
so they have to write down
it's a card that says this check is good for up to a hundred bucks
to the [merchant] on ours
it's just on the back of our visa
and it says guarantee
and you might want to check out your visa it might have that on there already
uh so do you
like computers
what do you think about the uh caller i d when you call in like on an eight hundred number or something or a to buy something
and then they know who you are
and uh where you're calling from
and your address and all that
but see most people don't know that that information is recorded
yep
you seem well informed
no
that's kind of a a bummer i'm looking forward to the time when uh my phone at home can tell me who's calling
and then i don't answer it if i don't want to talk to
yeah
we'll see
another invasion of privacy uh everyday occurrence
i can't
sure
gosh
they want to tell me i look great
you know as a consumer we have to be wary of all that type of propaganda
oh what a bummer that would be a kind of a [deflator] let's see i took something back to one of the stores today a christmas gift and uh i had to show my i d and uh blood type and because i didn't have a sales slip and it was interesting
yeah uh
uh no
they were
and uh i guess the time to do it
i talked to the with the guys at work is right after christmas because they're too busy to give
you a rush yeah
well i don't have anything else to say
well it's been a pleasure wendy
right
yeah
i guess the telephone solicitation is the one that comes to my mind
to me that's uh it's inexcusable if you want to come and want my money come and convince me don't call me on the phone
yeah
i just keep my phone number listed under a separate name
and when someone calls for that name
i know that they're soliciting
and i just tell them no
they got the wrong number
works pretty good
right
right
no
i don't have a cordless right
right
i guess a lot of the data that's being taken with you know the advent of the computer
a lot of the data that's being taken on everybody you know your social security number
is tied to just everything about you
and i think that [constitutes] an invasion of privacy not so much the fact that the data is there
but the way that it's being [compiled] and i think the government uses is quite a bit you know if they they want to do a background check on you
they've got everything on you from the time you got that social security card
and to me that's an invasion of my privacy
they know to where you've worked where you've been what you've done you know any
any kind of uh you know you name anything that's ever happened to you
is going to be tied into either your social security number or your driver's license
right
okay
okay  
uh_huh  
kind of like a domino's effect  
oh  
no  
no  
uh_huh  
no  
i don't think it was really corruption that caused it  
or within  
i think people just started you know not being as careful with the loans that they were making whenever you know whenever they gave them out  
i think maybe they didn't check into them enough  
or maybe because everyone else was doing they figured they would just go ahead and approve it also  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm not sure  
uh_huh  
i know well i'm uh i know a little bit about it  
but i don't as much as i should know about it  
i'm a finance major here at clarion  
and um i do know that one of the reasons that caused it is the fact that the federal reserved backed any loan that the savings and l made with a a hundred thousand dollars  
so they were kind of insured with that hundred thousand dollars  
and i think that's kind of why they they were making the riskier loans  
because they were like oh well we have a hundred thousand dollars insurance on it  
no  
i don't think so  
and uh plus where the fact where they were allowed to make loans in any almost any type of loan  
and like some banks you know they're limited to the types of loans that they're allowed to make  
and i think the s and l were more open with the types of loans that they were allowed to make  
and i think if they would be more bound to certain loans and not as high of insurance by the reserve then i don't think this would have happened  
uh_huh  
um i think that people just basically got tired of hearing it  
and it wasn't making it was wasn't as good news as it was  
i think it's still you know i adding up  
and i think it will be for awhile  
no  
i i don't think they do  
i don't think how i don't think how they could find that big how much was really lost or how much they were going to lose because there still are some s and ls still open  
and it's it's very possible for them to go down in the future because of this  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i don't know  
i i think it would be harder  
but i think there are some regular banks that will go down with it  
uh_huh  
oh yeah um  
in some of my classes now i was just reading  
i think it was in [venezuela]  
i can't remember what company it was  
but they just wrote off like millions of dollars because they know they will never get it back  
you know and they just they just wrote it right off  
i think i think we've lost a lot of money  
and you know like we every never going to get it back  
it's impossible to get it back  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
cause we're you know we're talking about some [peens] that have just like even gave up on like getting it back and trying any more  
they just totally wrote it off their book  
oh  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i think is it necessary to have um the backing um  
it it's it's just for you know safe purposes you know in case something would happen um  
yeah  
i don't i  
yeah  
as long as there's enough little companies we're going to have to have something  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think it could happen  
yeah  
i think it'll happen again  
but i think it will be a long time in the future before it does happen again  
because i think like the bank people in any kind of people like that are going to be worry enough not to let it happen again in the near future  
but i think later on they're going to start and forget about and start making the riskier loans  
because i mean you're going to have to take some risk  
and as long as their backed i think they're still going you know start taking on riskier loans  
and i think there is a chance of it possibly happen again but not until you know late you know in the future  
uh_huh  
all right uh  
feelings on what caused the s and l crisis  
i guess i don't have a real technical knowledge for what happened  
i gather that there where large numbers of situations where loans were made that appeared to be a good loan but in a speculative since  
and with have little regulation going on because of deregulation during the reagan eight years uh more and more s and l simply began to take riskier and riskier loans  
and then when they began to collapse one after the other i think almost like an [avalanche] of of property values devalued  
right  
i don't have a a field for whether or not this is the equivalent of what was called the [teapot] dome   uh scandal  
are you familiar with that   from your histories lessons or whatever  
uh i vaguely recall  
but i've never gone and done any study on it since the s and l thing  
that [teapot] dome scandal is when i think during the [hoover] years where [gobs] of land was was sold at really [inflated] prices on the theory that there were natural gas [beneath] it  
and that that appeared to be corruption within the [hoover] administration  
i don't have a real since of of like corruption that caused s and l all though i have a feeling that people look the other way when things began to go [sourer] maybe  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it seems like there were on awful a lot of people making loans and business decisions on a  
get rich quick is the wrong phrase  
but if it [captures] some of the the feeling i have from the people making business decisions that if they failed it's sort of well no skin of my back  
i'll move on to this other company  
or   i i just since that they didn't have a commitment to the stability of the organizations they were were making the decisions for  
and i don't know whether that's because they had other opportunities to which they could move you know that it was that easy for them to find new work that they didn't weren't stuck to where they were  
and things begin to collapse  
they just moved on  
or whether they had [extracted] enough money in a percentage base that they that they didn't care any more  
i just i'm rather puzzled about the   whole thing  
okay  
well they didn't they didn't have a since of risk  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
well do you think we there's a final accounting yet not in the since of pennies an [nickels]  
but do you think there's accounting on an ordered of magnitude or or that that they really do understand how much money it is  
for awhile it seemed like every time i opened the paper up it was [escalating] in terms of damage uh  
did is your since that we now understand how bad it is  
or is there more to be heard yet  
so you don't think necessarily they don't have a complete grasp yet  
or whether  
uh_huh  
to be caught in the  
do you think to possibly is that it will help with the regular banks  
it seems that i recall reading for the last oh let's say starting three years a go but not so much in the last year of bank risks of relative to the loaning funds to third world countries like mexico [venezuela]   uh and argentina based on oil loans  
and then the price of oil had had gone south [resulting] in those loans being very [risky]  
and i guess i read articles of various banks that have done the right thing to contain their risks given that they had made multiple billion dollar loans  
i have this [vague] since that that could happen that that there are still monies loaned out to third world countries that could end up being totally lost  
uh_huh  
and so you think that it's just gone  
okay  
do you think it is necessary to have the federal [guaranty] program  
like my since is it was there to try to protect small [investors]  
but it ended up protecting big [investors]   which i don't think what it was meant to do  
so i guess i i feel like as long as we have the possibility for this large numbers of people to be protected the possibility exist for these sorts of problems  
um so your since is that the that uh the loan [guaranties] which really were accounts [guaranties]   so the so that the account [holders] that if something went wrong they would have their money  
and given that the s and ls have had disasters then those account [holders] are are their money is still being protected  
and that is it's million of people with anywhere from thousands to tens of thousands i guess of   of dollars being protected  
it it seems like um there was a lot of money being protected in multiple accounts uh  
it's  
if if you take ten million people and protect ten thousand dollars it still only a hundred billion dollars  
and we're taking about monies way in access of that now  
so it's obvious that we've protected large accounts  
and perhaps multiple people in multiple s and ls  
and and it seems like maybe that needs to be thought about [rethought]  
you know that the for  
i guess i'm content with the need to have protection on on accounts  
but i feel likes it's on an individual basis  
someone whose got accounts in thirty five different s and ls or thirty or forty thousand dollars  
and they're all protected by the government  
seems to me like they've gotten around what was   intended to be the issue there  
uh_huh  
i guess i don't have a personal since of v on it since i   was not a heavy user of any s and ls  
and and let alone any of them that went bankrupt  
and i guess that means that from my perspective it could happen again  
because that means   i'm not worried enough uh  
it's kind of thing where maybe we'll survive  
and then i then it will happen again because we don't pay attention to those kinds of things  
uh_huh  
well perhaps if there are [regulatory] uh constraints put back in place   it will protect that  
maybe we have learned a little bit of a lesson here about what happens if you remove a little of the regulation uh  
oh right  
up in uh t i out there  
oh right  
yeah  
i just hit one then  
uh  
it  
i got to uh  
this is going to be fun  
are you republican or democrat  
okay  
well i'm a i'm a democrat  
so i was going to say if you're a republican boy we would really have a good time  
well i uh  
to answer that one before we get to our subject you know i always get a kick out of republicans who take credit for all the military hardware that was bought for the war and how successful it was though when it comes to the budget they say well the democrats control all the money  
and they're the ones wasting all the money  
and i always wondered how they can play the money either way they want you know  
i get a kick out of that  
but anyway the subject go ahead  
you first  
yeah  
i uh i don't think it's over  
i think that uh so many other things have taken over uh in the media  
but i think it was just plain greed  
and i think it was deregulation really when they said do anything you want banks  
go ahead loan your money out you know  
yeah  
i was talking to someone  
i can't remember who it was  
but he was a small [businessman]  
and he said that the banks were calling  
he borrowed some money  
and the banks were calling and just looking for people to give their money away  
they just got totally carried away with buying property and reselling the same property  
and uh yeah  
there there should be thousands of people in jail as far as i'm concerned  
not just a couple  
right  
well i i agree a hundred percent  
oh yeah  
it may have started with hud too  
i noticed that hud was in terrible shape  
and that was property  
and uh they lost a lot of money there  
and then some of these big these rich people started to  
even [murchison] here who owned the cowboys had a lot of property down in florida  
this was several years ago  
and he lost you know all all of his money before he died  
not all of it  
i don't know how much he lost  
but uh they were just buying property and buying all kinds of real estate and thinking that there was a [bottomless] pit  
and it always would it always would increase you know  
it always would uh uh be more than what you paid for it  
and they just never even got conservative with our money at all  
right  
yeah  
well now the reason that i said that is because i was going to blame all uh reaganomics for you know  
you spend your way to prosperity  
and when you opened up the bank deregulation without any controls i thought well that was the philosophy you know  
just keep spending until taxes are lower  
and i thought that's not going to work you know  
and i knew that it wasn't going to work originally  
and it hasn't worked now  
right  
no doubt  
no doubt  
oh yeah  
i i i agree with that  
but there's got to be some control  
and apparently there was you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know uh  
oh no  
i  
right  
and and not high quality ones at that you know  
well i do have a lot of confidence in the the american people and the economy and everything else  
i i feel bad when i see the inefficiency even here at t i you know  
and i think that the  
it it still  
a lot of the workers don't understand that uh they need to put out the best that they can because it comes right back to them you know  
right  
i know  
and i when i  
of course i'm in facilities  
and i work with a lot of mechanics  
and i just cannot understand why they're just happy to spend their time here rather than produce you know  
and they think that well i'm paid anyway  
so it doesn't matter you know  
right  
right  
yeah  
oh really  
you don't sound like a nonexempt jim  
you don't sound like a nonexempt  
uh you're too informed  
they're they're very they're very uh not interested  
they wouldn't even talk probably about some of the things we're talking about now  
i guess i'm dealing with too many texas mechanics here  
i don't know really  
i'm being a yankee i guess i'm i'm letting my yankee come out you know  
yeah  
uh well that's good  
no  
right  
i mean that's good that you're degreed  
uh uh your time will come  
we uh  
i know a few people  
oh really  
what  
are you in a tech  
like do you do technician work or something  
oh quality okay  
yeah  
oh yeah  
well now is is uh really terrible  
i'm uh management level uh facilities  
and when the cuts came three of us got uh bounced back  
and so we're just uh  
i'm calling you from work  
i'm i'm covering uh weekends and nights now  
i'm i'm one of the manager [reps]  
there's three of us to cover in dallas facilities  
and just we're essentially [standby] and problems uh all all nights and weekends  
that's my  
i only get one weekend off a month right now  
i call it my recession job  
uh being basically an engineer and liking uh doing installation work well there's not any  
i mean there is literally is no installation work going on  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it it  
banking  
i think that not not only t i but a lot of it when they talk about uh  
there was one point i was going to make  
i think the last i heard  
and i i have to admit i'm not as informed as them  
but there's something like about eighty six billion that they admit  
well i always double that  
i figure well if they claim that it's going to cost us eighty six billion it's got to be twice as much because no one admits their mistakes  
and so if that's true it may mean that two hundred billion dollar category that was that went down the tube somewhere  
yeah  
it's amazing really  
it's amazing that  
oh yeah  
i know what you mean  
course your value of homes up there are pretty good  
i mean here they're not really that high  
but are they pretty good up there  
oh really  
well we're in the metroplex here you know  
and uh   it it  
i die every time companies like general dynamics  
they they lost several contracts  
and and i don't know if you noticed yesterday you probably don't pay attention to the bell [helicopter] you know  
they were going to have big uh award  
and secorski got it which was boeing secorski this which is up in the north somewhere you know  
and i don't know how   bell didn't get it  
well i i don't  
they were advertising here that it was bell t i  
t i was getting the uh electronics with bell  
and so it was a double  
one that bell is in the metroplex  
and two that t i was doing the electronics for them  
and they they advertised that that it was t i bell t i bell and then all of a sudden secorski got it yeah  
secorski boeing  
boeing doesn't need the money  
something  
i almost think there's some politics around here because the metroplex here in the dallas fort worth area the uh with t i  
i don't know if t i has lost as much as everybody else  
but general dynamics and l t v and bell have lost project after project you know  
colorado springs  
yeah  
did you hit one  
all right  
the savings and loan scandal  
uh kind of neither  
i do have some republican [leanings] because   i am division one you know  
uh i think it's a stinking shame that there isn't capital punishment for those [assholes] that [stold] our money  
i agree with you  
i think it had something to do with deregulation  
but i believe uh more of it was just greed  
well  
you know we've watched and watched t v and seen that a lot of these people were doing things not just playing in the gray and not just reselling property at a profit but financing the same property three and four times   you know  
and the list goes on and on   you know of of just the crimes committed   much less for criminals that should be [indicted]  
yeah  
yeah  
it  
everyone forgets whose money it was  
and everyone forgets that there are several of these people that are wanted by the federal government currently and are overseas where [extradition] is merely a funny american word  
i  
as far as being a republican or a democrat i think no american could stand for criminal action  
well  
in theory in theory a healthy economy has a lot of spending going on  
and if people are making money people can spend money  
and it'll generate taxes  
well the problem is  
and the problem with reaganomics is that the people at the top are the ones getting rich  
and for what they would cost  
and we weren't producing anything  
we as americans weren't producing anything  
it was all inflation  
and i'm sorry we don't get into a real argument over it  
we agree too closely  
but   but you you can't say that that was right  
no intelligent person can say that we could spend our way rich  
remember all we're doing is [delivering] pizzas to each other  
yeah  
well  
it is a life and death struggle   with with the japanese  
i i'm very tired of it all pays by the hour  
uh and i'm nonexempt  
what  
what what does a nonexempt sound like  
uh  
uh that's  
well i  
now maybe i'm not the uh typical nonexempt that you deal with  
the badge is silver  
and uh i am degreed though nonexempt  
no  
that's not good  
but  
no  
i i do not wish my time to come  
oh no  
no  
no  
i  
government tool control is my specialty now  
i did p c protection control work for uh   about ten or twelve years uh  
right now i'm just trying to tool crib and chips  
times are bad  
it's  
they turned all installation up here off  
they told facilities they could not work  
i don't care what the jobs are you will not work  
and and as far as our you know our conversation goes i would really be interested to know how much of t i's problems now are related to   the banking structure  
uh it really hurts me   to realize that a lot of people out there are trying to retire on their home values  
uh one of our senior  
no  
our economy in colorado springs fell completely apart  
right  
yeah  
it's northwest  
seattle  
seattle  
and also uh they do some of that in wichita kansas  
huh  
secorski boeing  
well you realize  
i'm not sure i even know where to begin on this mess
i do believe though a lot of speculative buying
and investment on [speculation] uh too many large deals with too much risk
uh and and associates of friends
and on it goes over a long period of time
and i think it i think it's a a type of situation where okay
the first investment didn't work
but if we throw a little bit more money in on it
maybe this one you know and try to get our money back
exactly
that's that is that is some of what some of what i had read is that's part of cause of it
now as to the question of what to do about it
uh it has to be government regulation i don't either
but the other thing this [dickson] that they convicted
he only got five years
so that's going to leave a message to other people that
yeah
well yes
but he's in very poor health so you know
twenty months may mean a lot longer for him
but still it's our money
it's our taxes
that have to pay for this mess
this is true
this is very true
and that's probably another cause of the problem we are looking at right now
this is a very true thing i didn't think about that part of it
uh_huh
oh really
that's interesting
oh yes
yes
this is true
oh how funny
how much that cost us
that is scary
i didn't think about that
they must be getting some on the national level
i think i've read various things
but i just no names come to mind
yeah
because that's a drop in the bucket to the taxes we're going to have to pay to to make up for this
you know you've got a good point there
and the
and the other thing is they said the the uh insurance agents the insurance industry is beginning to resemble the savings and loan industry
so they they say the next big crisis could
well be
our insurance
as another uh
my car insurance is frightening
right now
i cannot believe how much money i pay
well and i just carry the absolute minimum required by law
and i'm paying
i mean every quarter i'm paying like five hundred dollars a year and that
oh my
well i you know the problem is who is they
and you get they is the government
but you get you get into when you start getting them to do things you get into a lot of special interest groups again
and you know
and and would that make it worse
or would that make it better
or would that offer new opportunities for other people
that's what scares me when you get into that type of situation
you know if you are going to change it watch out for the person that's changing it
they may put another [loophole] in that that
wasn't even there to begin with
and i think reading the newspaper for that type of thing is a waste of time because they're there to sell newspapers
that's the problem with the news both the on television and the paper
well all they're there to sell you know or to entertain even worse
and uh not to [transmit] information
so what we get is so [garbled] that
who knows if we even have the ability to decide anything
and whose best interests they represent us or someone else
in in a savings and loan or own a or has a brother that owns yeah
it's really a scary scary thing
well now there was an article in the paper this morning in the business section how tough it was to get a loan approved anymore
yeah
when you know when you're trying to buy a house
how incredibly hard
it is to get get a loan approved simply because they're
they are [tightening] down so much
uh_huh
oh yes
smart move
oh did they
oh that's not
well
but they are hurting their own credit that way
oh absolutely
yeah
because they can you know they write all that
and people that write things off as bad debt
that lowers their [threshold] of income
of what they have to pay taxes on
which automatically makes our taxes go up
because there is so much that has to be paid
and if this guy is exempt from paying it
we have to pay more
that's exactly right
so [shst] yeah
that is really sad
yes
okay
i i think what happened with savings and loans is uh is what everyone says is they they made a lot of uh of not well [secured] loans on real estate and when uh the bottom fell out of the real estate market the bottom fell out of their loans
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
i think
right
yeah
that seemed to play a pretty big role
i think because i don't know
i get the feeling that the regulations probably needed to be a little a little more stringent uh
yeah
it certainly has has uh the magnitude of the crisis
it seems
i don't know
it seems much greater than i would have thought
it really just seems out of proportion talking they're talking four or five hundred billion dollars
yeah
yeah
right
i think that a a typically bad loan is is that the ones that just took place massively in houston when they put up these huge office buildings
and spent
very large amounts of money and then could simply could not rent them out
they couldn't even rent them out for expenses
it was cheaper to keep them empty than to rent them at twenty percent [occupancy] yeah
uh_huh
well i mean just for me to mortgage my to to get a mortgage on my house
i mean they investigated me personally to the point where i was insulted
and i was putting forty thousand dollars down on a hundred and sixty thousand dollar house
i mean i would have thought we're happy to do it just sign here you know
but i mean they had forty thousand dollars in equity and i mean they just
wanted to see three years of income tax
returns and all that [bullshit] which really sort of disturbed me
right
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh
uh
uh
yeah
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
i uh i also run a little business out of my home on the side
what's the nature of yours
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
cat breeding huh
uh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh
wow
that's not too great
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i would i would find that uh a little bit [disarming] it's a computer business
uh_huh
i see
where does does he go to school here
i see
okay
what's what's his name
i might know him
uh_huh
okay
i guess i don't
uh no
huh_uh
i see uh
um i've got a a friend who's in the business who just gave me this application uh
i see
uh so uh-oh
well what of it
it's five bucks a shot what the heck
yeah um
right
well speaking of that
i think we've probably given them their money's worth
oh i see
i've never gone that long
that's
oh i see
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i really do
and uh so uh it's nice talking to you
dave and uh
all right
now we have to talk about the savings and loan scandal
do you have any strong opinions on that
what are yours
well i think there's a lot to be said for that point of view
i i really think that congress turned on the taps and then there were lots of people there to carry away the water
huh
well
right
you'll pay for it
absolutely
that
uh_huh
i think that would have been a much smarter way to handle it
and the other thing that would have helped a lot would be to make concern that the people who were going to use the money that we were providing should have had their own at stake they should have had a lot more of their own capital on the line
when they can [leverage] just a very small investment into millions of dollars worth of taxpayers money
and it's turning out to be a lot more than that
then they have absolutely no incentive to uh treat it [prudently] they just uh hand it over to anybody who walks in and asks for it
uh_huh
they have nothing to lose and everything to gain if they
uh can keep lending and keep growing
then they can take the big salaries and have the all the perks and uh entertainment and so forth and then uh if people don't pay them back
it's no skin off their nose they just
uh_huh
yeah
they don't they don't lose
anything
well uh i don't know what could have been done other than the uh insurance regulations but i certainly think that was a mistake
and the uh i also think it was a mistake to reimburse all [depositors] over a hundred thousand dollar when they were told up front that that was uh
uh the limit
because uh the promises don't
yeah
the promises
don't mean anything now when uh the people put millions of dollars in some shaky operation
and they figure the taxpayers will bail them out because they have
absolutely
uh i would have been in a little danger of uh you know i would have had to be very careful about where i put my money
but i certainly
would have been alert and i would not have just been chasing the highest percentage return
on a c d
yeah
and i don't think
that's any great loss
we could do without a few of those
they don't seem to be providing very much useful uh service to people
absolutely
uh_huh
yes
you would and uh uh i don't see why the for large sums of money
why it should be any different from investing in a c d uh i mean in uh uh mutual fund or a money market fund or something like that
uh there are no guarantees on them
you uh you trust that the [broker] won't sell because certain [brokerage] houses will guarantee at least up a certain point the investments in the funds that they manage but uh then you're uh just at the mercy of them because they can go under
that's right
yeah
uh_huh
well do you think that we're heading for another [debacle] of the sort in the uh insurance industry
and we see
uh_huh
well i don't know how we're going to bail them out because if we're already how many trillion dollars in the hole
where's the money going to come from
and yet the we've got this enormous uh first executive insurance company just sailing out here in california
and uh maybe the people who have bought term insurance aren't going to lose anything except a few months premium
but all those uh people who have money invested in uh uh [annuities] for their retirement are going to be up a creek
and i don't know who's going to bail them out
they're there are already a few companies that had switched over from their own private plans to the first executive [annuities] that are not getting their benefit checks this month
and they the state governor is saying that we're going to protect those people
but how are we going to do that
where the state itself is already in [hock] and we're running thirteen million dollars no billion sorry thirteen billion dollars in the hole for the next [fiscal] year
we've got to come up with that money because they can't run a deficit the way the federal government can
and they're going to have to be laying people off out here in the states some of whom i don't think anybody will miss
but when it gets down to teachers and cops it makes a difference
well the yeah
i think that's absolutely [unconscionable] they keep all their fancy uh perks in the legislature
and they uh still do their [junketing] and they still have all their uh i think it's something like twenty five uh people on the payroll per [legislator]
you i i came out here to california from texas
and i can very well remember people trying to change the texas legislature to meet every year
instead of every other year as the texas constitution required
and people
consistently voted it down
it says they do enough damage every two years think of
where we'd be if we let them meet yearly and i really feel that way about the california ones too
i i i think that if they could all just take about a five year vacation and let things settle down maybe we could figure out what
in fact we need and start over
but anyway
uh_huh
yep
i i would vote for that
well it's been interesting talking to you
and i think we're in
pretty much agreement on this
thanks for talking
okay  
i think we're supposed to discuss our view of the soviet union as a continuing threat to the united states  
how do you feel about that  
i'm concerned about them not as a military threat but as a burden  
they're very large  
and they can become very quickly a large financial burden as as one more [stepchild] we have to carry around  
and they have a a problem their their whole attitude uh  
i i'm not sure which crop it was  
but they had a crop that rotted in the fields because they couldn't get anyone to harvest it  
and the people in the city were saying well why should i go do that make the government do that that's not my job  
absolutely  
and and i think that they're having a hard time with the concept of you can not go back  
people only go forward  
and i think that that is giving them  
i'm expecting a call  
and unfortunately i think it's come through  
i've enjoyed talking to you  
thank you  
bye  
okay  
i don't really  
i more  
i don't know about the government as much as uh  
the people uh i wouldn't consider to be a threat at all  
and i really don't feel much like the soviet union itself is a threat anymore  
i'm i'm worried about them  
they're in a very uh [tumultuous] state right now with the kinds of uh adaptations that they're attempting to go through uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's that's a real important aspect  
and that uh as the the the most the  
let's see the more that we do that we do or that we can do to help them become self sufficient is going to eliminate more of the risk of that becoming uh you know a reality  
i know that uh this last winter was very hard on uh several areas in the in the the ukraine particularly the coal mining [regions] of [siberia] uh  
the people there have money  
that's not their problem  
but there's no food for them to buy  
and its  
you can't eat money  
yeah  
right  
they've got a lot of adjustments to make with coming out of what they've been through now  
and uh they've been they've been under under the oppression that they've been under for so long that now they have some freedoms  
but they don't know how to act yet  
they don't understand that to make that work  
they've got to take some responsibility for themselves  
it's not just the government's responsibility anymore  
you can't just blame it on the government when they give you the freedom to take care of yourself then that puts some responsibility on you as well  
okay  
all right  
bye bye  
well what is your view do you consider the soviet union a threat  
sure  
right  
it's it's hard to to know anymore if it's a a threat one way or another because uh it used to be so much in the past that whatever the top said the rest fell you know rank and file in behind it  
and now that with gorbachev is introducing more i guess freedoms or [expressions] of freedom it doesn't look as though you know everybody's following the same pattern  
and those  
the people who are you know the [staunch] military conservative people  
you never know well [gorbachev's] future is like whereas   whereas in the past it was seen as you know whoever was the head of the the communist party was seen as you know [untouchable]  
uh_huh  
exactly  
right  
right  
well it's amazing just because of the drain that's been on you know both economies that our economy is of course been able to uh [withstand] that a little better  
but uh the russian economy  
they you know they  
i don't know what the percentages are  
but i heard it one time  
it's just some [ungodly] number just to support the military machine  
and finally you know who knows  
maybe they're finally waking up and saying you know we can't afford this  
uh the u s isn't the threat that we've always made them out to be   you know even if they're saying that [beneath] the doors  
but it's hard to thing that just one person can bring that much of a radical change in that short of period  
even if it is you know the best thing in the long run it just steps on too many people's toes   who are comfortable with the way the situation is  
uh_huh  
right  
expend  
uh_huh  
well it's interesting anymore the world's getting so small that it doesn't seem to tolerate anymore any kind of the [expansionism]   philosophy that that was here in   you know twenty years ago  
uh but of course the people who have challenged that or tried to do have have not been world powers  
so it's easier for us to say you know to an iraq you know   uh you can't do this get back you know or we're going to force you  
whereas you know if the soviet union would have who knows what taking over [mongolia] or or something like that who is really will we have been more just [rhetoric]   uh rather than going in there officially or you know   physically and try to to remove them  
uh_huh  
exactly  
yeah  
uh that  
personally i don't see as gorbachev as being maybe a threat  
and i think he's actually honestly trying to do some change  
but i don't believe that he in this first pass around you know being the first one to really turn things around or attempt to is going to be allowed to get away with it either  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that was always kind of interesting  
people  
you know a lot of my friends have a taken us down the stance of you know these people are just trying to be free and trying to get away  
and i'm thinking more of it from a [nationalistic]  
you know if i'm a soviet and if part of you know south let's say south dakota wanted to you know succeed am i going to stand for that  
now i realize that the [origins] are are different and that we all joined under a common direction and a common bond to begin with   and that they may have been forced i'm not that familiar with their future  
but i you know i  
it's easy to believe that they were probably more forced into a pact than uh a volunteer or willingness to join  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and then   just never given back  
yep  
well that whole a  
the whole idea if you look at the russian history and i guess all countries the way it used to be is the only way to truly protect your borders was to have a buffer  
and that was the whole idea why they had so many [buffers]  
and maybe you know more and more people are seeing oh countries hopefully are seeing that that buffer isn't going to help you  
you can  
well i guess like   with uh israel is a perfect example  
the reason they have the [angolan] heights and the the uh all their buffer area is between jordan and the the [sinai] and and lebanon was just as a buffer  
but you know as you can see with the the [scuds] go right over there  
yeah  
there's there's very little that that [binds] you anymore in today's technology  
that's probably very true  

that's very interesting never thought of that  
uh_huh  
nobody knows what to do  
is it real  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
i get confused between all the which is the soviet [provinces] versus which are the the russian [provinces]   versus what are  
uh_huh  
right  
oh as a  
as a vote  
sure  
sure  
died down on that  
i thought it was interesting that recently here the [warsaw] pact no longer exists as a military force  
but it's merely an economic now  
well i mean at  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
exactly  
and and all the  
well that's what they're saying the whole problem you know with if we were to [demilitarize] europe  
what are we going to do with all the soldiers over there  
what's going to happen to the economies that are no longer have a a million plus people in the you know   in each country from the u s  
i don't know that it's so much a military threat anymore as a  
well you know it's it's real confusing right now to know what kind of a of of a threat it is i guess  
it it takes awhile to to get used to something  
you know if if they have completely  
on the place has completely turned that much around to where they're not you know not what they used to be  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
the thing that keeps happening is happening so fast and so uh dramatic that you almost think now wait a minute you know we're getting stuck into something here you know  
if   if somebody's about to to [clobber] you the first thing they do is sort of say well you know we're we're ashamed we're not going to do that anymore  
and uh um you know i'd i'd like to think that that isn't true  
but i i  
you know the evidence is that uh you know he's he's let some some stuff go you know the east german situation  
it's just the whole thing is so incomprehensible  
you know if i'd have been asleep for five years   and read it in a book i said no no no that didn't couldn't have happened that way  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think you know what i'd have to  
i i i guess to answer the question directly i'm still just a a little bit you know leery of the whole thing  
what i haven't seen is the uh you know a great stepping back in the military   situation  
you know it's it's one thing you know to let us go ahead and sort of disarm  
and you know i even had a thought once that the whole iraqi thing might have been just a a deal to go ahead and let us uh you know   expend some some military hardware  
of course it didn't turn out that way  
and uh uh that that may have been a a a kind of far out way of thinking about it i don't know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
or or we can do something about it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well the the china situation you know the when it looked like that thing was was turning around  
and all of a sudden it was like somebody in the in the red square or wherever said okay  
and that's enough  
and the tanks came in and   you know pretty much took care of that  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well this would be like if somebody was elected president of the united states and suddenly took off toward you know just some pretty hard by the [socialism]  
and uh you know the the reaction uh  
you know the the economic  
well the uh the social structure of the soviet union you know it it's it's coming apart at the seams  
you know and i've heard people say well you know it's just like the american civil war will there be a union or not  
well no  
it's not the same sort of a thing at all because that the whole soviet system was put together under total force  
you know there was no  
as as we are seeing now with a lot of those   areas wanting out of it  
you know they uh nobody  
you know a lot  
man those people didn't vote to become part of the soviet union  
they had no choice  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there there was the whole thing was put together you know by force  
there's there's no no real question about that  
and some of the countries that were forced in at later dates is the three baltic countries you know came in in the forties  
and uh it's well it's not that they came in it's they were [conquered] by the germans  
and then the russians even   took it back from the germans and never bothered to give it back   you know  
so that's a   a little different situation  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they don't really pay a whole lot of attention to [buffers]  
i knew a lot of guys in the service when they were sent to germany they said that's the safest place in the world because if a war starts all the bombs are going to go right over germany  
and they're going to land in other places  
you know that's going to be the safest place to be  
yeah  
well uh i i guess what they'd have to do to  
i really don't know  
you know in in the in you know i hope that what's happening is exactly the way it appears  
you know some reason or other you know is uh it's kind of a strange thing we've been trying to make something like this happen for so long that when it finally happens you say   whoa wait a minute  
you know what's uh   what's what's really happening here  
but you wonder how well this thing  
who was it [boris] yeltsin the guy that's running the uh or evidently was elected president of the soviet   for the russian republic   which is i guess the uh the biggest  
uh_huh  
well in the center  
but you got a the the great big area that's just was traditionally known as russia  
and then all these little [nationality] groups   around it you know that were you know was there nineteen of them or or whatever  
you know and these were all the soviet [economists] us you know they had some real fancy names for them  
matter of fact when the  
uh yeah  
what i read when the uh uh united nations was setup in in san francisco one of the first things the russians wanted to do was bring in each one of the uh of these you know republics   as a separate country  
you know   so there would be there would be nineteen   rather than one  
and uh the united states said well that mean we get to bring in forty eight you know  
and uh that sort of  
you know they backed down on that  
yeah  
well wonder if that  
uh   what do you get shot by something that's called a an economic force or what is called a military pact  
you know it's all  
you can change the name of something  
but i wonder if it's still exists  
although i've seen some evidence that you know the uh the russian soldiers are  
well you  
the funny thing there is they're not particularly welcome back home because there's they're having housing [shortages] now  
what do you do with all these troops that have been taken care of by uh [bulgaria] and   and [czechoslovakia]  
and now all of a sudden they're going home  
and somebody's got to pay for their  
yeah  
well that's not  
yeah  
well i guess i'm maybe naive  
but i never did feel that russia was a big threat to us  
i mean obviously there's the the the possibility of or was the possibility of war uh  
but i somehow think that war is one of those things that maybe is inevitable  
but uh i don't look at it as a threat in the same sense that that i think this question was meant  
what about you  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but i guess there was concern uh that iraq would use you know [nonconventional] [warheads] with with the chemical weapons and things  
but yet it didn't happen  
i mean   why not  
uh_huh  
oh so you think it was fear that kept iraq from   using it  
but yet the  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i don't think we've done that to saddam hussein yet  
i think that's that's that's not very likely  
but yet you know as as the [parallel] russia is that saddam hussein is using the chemical warfare   on his own people  
and i guess that makes sense what you said that uh within their own borders they feel freer to do   what what they feel necessary  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
well   or that that it [resolves] anything in the end that   that [negotiations] couldn't resolve  
uh_huh  
well it sounds like neither one of us thinks that the soviet union is a real threat to the u s  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
okay  
well thanks  
bye bye  
all righty  
so uh do you think russia's still a threat  
there you go  
well i think  
have you ever read the book nineteen eighty four  
okay  
you know like how uh these two there was like three [continents] that were always fighting with each other   right  
and you could picture it as being russia versus the u s   during the whole time  
and what they would do is they would get their prisoners and kill them as soon as they got them because the people there could realize that they were the same as as themselves you know  
the prisoners of wars were were the same as the people living in that country  
and you didn't want that to happen  
and to me it had always been that way  
i mean what happens is you have a government right  
and this government controls everything right  
and then you have the people [inhabiting] the country  
and these people have nothing to do with the government itself  
and these people are the same as you are  
and what goes on is that every time somebody attacks a country supposedly u s or russia attacks a country it's not going to be within the borders of the u s or russia itself  
like i was telling people i'm really mad because the whole thing in the middle east this was going on  
in in lithuania they they were announced to be a separate country  
but yet the the government that's in moscow told its army to go in there and get those people  
and the u s didn't go in there and try to save those people  
you know it's like you're not going to go in there and say no  
listen  
there's a separate country  
why  
because you're going into the border  
right  
once you get into the border then there's a threat  
but what happens is you don't mess with us we won't mess with you  
but let's mess with the [neutral] countries  
you know and now it's like you know they're saying other people were were i guess other leaders were still [crazier] about it you know  
like other people you could think that they might use a bomb here and a bomb there  
but russia has never been known for throwing an atomic bomb anywhere  
and the u s has  
you know it's like they it seems like they can their their army or whatever can can go in there quicker than an atomic bomb can and do do the job with uh you know less suffering  
you know but i think i think the thing is is that there the thing  
like they were saying they go you know  
like libya could start a nuclear war because of whoever is behind the button but not the u s s r  
the u s s r   wouldn't do it   because they got too much at stake  
yeah  
well   my my point of view to that is is that it would have had so much i mean the attack would have been so complete on iraq if they had  
i mean the first you can imagine the first uh chemical weapon used  
that would have meant a total attack of the iraq country within you know three hours of when the weapon was shot  
right  
and what happens is what happens is  
suppose they get saddam hussein which they eventually will  
he's got one less thing to go against him  
i mean if he were to use that he might as well commit suicide   because he's going to be captured and you know  
but the u s also makes a lot of uh you know [treaties] with other people like saying okay  
if you give up then you can come live in our country  
and we'll take care of you like marcos right  
we'll overthrow you  
but yet you can still come live here you know  
uh no  
no  
yeah  
right  
right  
and uh you know there's there's just you know  
like people will go like they like the u s goes and goes into panama  
and what  
see i don't believe in war  
that's my thing  
i don't believe that anybody should die   you know  
and so then you know you have  
because what happens is  
suppose i'm i go to war  
and i'm holding a gun  
and i'm just looking at myself holding a gun  
and whoever shoots first survives you know  
but that same person also has a family  
and you know   his parents are going to cry  
and you know life ends there  
and to me that's ridiculous  
you know i mean i just don't believe it  
i think there are other ways to fix it even though sometimes there aren't  
but it's pretty hard to think that you know people are just going to shoot each other down  
and it's legal in a situation like that  
you know  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i mean saddam hussein lost so much money during the war that it was ridiculous  
and he all he was trying to do was make money at the beginning   so and keep his power  
but well  
no  
i i don't think so  
i think uh they're getting they're especially getting their life back together now  
because a lot of things that you saw on tv  
a lot of uh [inhabitants] of russia would love to stay in their country just as long as they were able to express what they wanted to  
a lot of like [dancers] and stuff like that  
they said that they wouldn't leave russia unless russia told them that they couldn't travel anymore and compete  
so it must be a beautiful country  
it's just that you know they won't let you get out  
and when you want to get out of the country that's what you want to do  
so oh well  
i got to go to class now  
nice talking to you  
bye bye  
hi  
my name's ken  
and um you're in texas  
right  
everybody's in texas  
god  
i'm in rochester new york  
everybody else but one has been in texas  
okay  
well i guess we should get on with this  
um did you get the message about what it was  
right  
okay  
go ahead  
i'm going to hit the button  
okay um  
do you think that the soviet union represents a threat to us  
that's interesting  
i don't  
i i suspect they're not our biggest threat anymore  
i suspect it's probably some crazy man like saddam hussein   who's our biggest threat  
but um i wonder if they're i wonder how much of a threat they are  
i agree with you that that they'll always be somewhat of a threat given that they have that there's just it's just so big  
and there's just so much military machine there  
right  
but i wonder how much longer they're going to be a them  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i agree  
i mean if we were to if if something were to happen i'm sure they would all of a sudden band together just for the sake of for the sake of uh of of [unity] against us or something   if if if need be  
but  
yeah  
actually i noticed this i mean this this this most recent scare of his where he said or he just decided that instead of having uh instead of having i can't think of the word now   if there are any demonstrations for in favor of [boris] yeltsin he decided well i'll just cancel all demonstrations altogether  
so i i i think that he he he's actually  
he i think is becoming very dangerous   because he's making those people angry at him  
and he's also i think he's also making um the military angry at him  
i mean i've heard stories now where the where the um the military is running around  
and they're sort of getting restless  
and a restless military is the kind of thing that happens you know  
like with the baltic states when they just go in there  
divvy the people up  
uh_huh  
that's interesting  
i i wonder  
i don't know if he's  
he he seems  
the thing about gorbachev strikes that he wouldn't be that dumb  
i don't know though  
that's that that's something that really true  
sort of a military thing i was speaking of before  
that's that's certainly true  
i mean his military may just go out and say well we just  
gorbachev said you can't do it  
and we're to not let you do it you know  
so  
yeah  
that that's real scary actually  
i mean i i i would expect their own problems would keep them away from us for a while  
but it could be real dangerous  
yeah  
right  
we don't need to worry about them  
yeah  
but wouldn't it be nice if no one had to fight anybody else  
yeah  
well i don't i don't know  
i think that underlying we're all pretty probably not as as different as everybody thinks  
right  
well that's that's certainly true of it  
that's true  
i was i was discussing with someone before um  
this someone before actually one of these calls  
matter of fact about another topic  
but it came up  
one of these calls  
matter of fact about um another topic  
but it came up  
one of these this this poem everything i wanted to know i learned in kindergarten or something  
you've read that one before  
that this this is the idea that i think is actually very is is what i think we should all [revert] to  
the idea that um  
basically they said everything happened in kindergarten  
and in kindergarten we learned to share  
and we learned to um play with each other  
we learned to take nap and to take naps  
and whenever we'd start a fight we'd all apologize and hug each other   you know  
and that would be all  
if we could just do the same thing sort of with with with everybody else i suspect we'd we'd be fine  
yeah  
unfortunately  
because i often i often sort of wonder how having never been to the soviet union um how different the people there really are you know  
how much  
yeah  
right  
i would i would love to go there i mean like again not now but at some point to go see what what this is like  
i mean this this is amazing because this is this is an this is an example of an entirely different culture that wants to be like us  
like you said before  
so it would be interesting to watch  
yeah  
that's that's  
and the ones i even feel somewhat worse for even um  
the ones in like the baltic states   where they don't have a strong leader then you know  
at least at least russia has some sort of strong leader  
i mean they have yeltsin who may who may yet sort of help russia  
but um i mean the baltic states i think are just sort of trapped  
i mean they were taken over couple you know not too long ago   and then just sort of told well you're here now  
you're part of our country  
you be this way  
it's a i think it's a sad state of affairs  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well yeah  
and that  
um um um uh actually it sounds very i mean very similar  
they're sort of being they were sort of forced  
and now they just want to sort of speak up and say hey  
we want our piece  
and they have like a problem  
they have muslims to deal with   as well as saddam hussein  
i i mean i think their big problem up there is you know unfortunately  
not only are they  
there's more than one group fighting for the same place  
they all want the you know  
whereas the [baltics] are saying oh we want our own  
we just want this little tiny piece of land  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
um actually my wife is syrian  
so i i also i know some of the history  
and actually the other funny thing is that i'm i'm jewish  
we're sort of like the middle east peace talks ourselves  
so we i i know  
i've been to israel  
and i know  
and i sort of toured the area  
and i know that it really is very lots of different cultures in one place i mean  
and it's the same thing i it's it's almost the same thing out out in the soviet union right now  
there you know there are  
you can't take a whole bunch of people who just aren't the same people and don't want to be together and put them together [forcibly]  
i mean we did it couple of hundred years ago here  
but they wanted to do it  
so  
that's that's certainly true  
right uh  
i wonder i wonder if now the people in the soviet union don't have ideas very different from that  
hello  
hi  
hi ken  
my name's diane  
yes  
i'm in san antonio  
oh  
okay  
yes  
i think they'll always represent a threat whether or not there's an active cold war or not uh  
it's it's a totally different economy based on different beliefs and and uh different priorities  
and uh given the the uh military powers on both sides i think it's always a threat  
probably not  
no  
right  
uh_huh  
and and it's recognized that the two great powers   are us and them  
and and the great powers are always [pitted] against each other  
i don't know  
they they're going downhill pretty steady  
but i i agree right now they're not  
i don't believe they're a large threat right now  
i think there's always some threat  
yeah  
actually i feel kind of sorry for them right now because the people are are are uh wanting things that we have that they're not  
i mean just some basic freedoms  
and and their government is not allowing it  
and gorbachev seems to be going back on some of the things that he's been trying to push  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
see i'm concerned that that since he's banned demonstrations altogether that he's going to do the type of thing that happened in [tiananmen] square  
and he's going to wipe out no telling how many of his   own [countrymen] uh right in the middle of red square  
and uh it's going to cause a more civil war than is already occurring  
i don't know  
i mean and it it might be something that he wouldn't be able to control  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we've got our own worries at the moment  
i guess as long as uh they're fighting each other we don't have to worry about them wasting their time with us  
well sure  
that but that's a that's an [impossibility] i think   given the differences in the world  
and people are just too different  
but unfortunately people people aren't that [insightful]  
they just see that this guy [prays] differently and to someone else than i do  
so therefore he's wrong  
and he's bad  
and we have to wipe wipe him out  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i haven't read it  
i've heard all about it though  
yeah  
yes  
but people grow up  
and they forget  
well  
that's one of the places i would most like to go  
not right now of course  
but at some point i would like to go to moscow and and to just to see all these things that you can see on television now and can read about  
that ten years ago we didn't have this kind of information  
and we didn't know what things were like  
so  
yeah  
i and i the the people  
i just feel so sorry for the people in the country that they can't i mean they they can't do  
they can't change it  
they try  
they and they there's nothing that they can do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's probably not dissimilar from the uh what are they the the the i'm trying to think of the name of the the something like that in northern iraq   who are actually [countrymen] of  
i mean some of them were split off into israel i believe  
and some of them are in turkey   when actually they they don't they're their own people and their beliefs and their own culture system  
and they were split up into three different countries  
and and they're very dissatisfied  
and they're they're causing wars right now  
and i don't think it's that different from what the baltic states are are going through  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the the one that i think  
one of the women that i work for is married to an iranian  
and so she has a lot of insight because she knows a lot of the history   of the countries over there  
and within five or six countries there are probably ten cultures of people  
and that's they don't all have their own country  
and and some of them are mad about it  
oh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and i don't think the people here two hundred years ago were that different  
i really don't  
i mean they had the same ideals and the same basic beliefs  
they might  
the baltic states might be feeling the same way that our [forefathers] felt when they were leaving to come here  
okay  
this topic is is russia a threat to our security  
i think they are more of a threat to their own people at this day and time  
how do you feel about it  
i believe communism is very much [waning]  
it's uh pretty much on the way out of the door insofar as the strong hold that they used to have  
and the russian people are all realizing that the communist system does not work to their satisfaction or their way of surviving in this world  
and their [rebellions] right now is the result of that  
if they can get the army   or the military to sway to their side i think that uh it will be on the way out eventually  
it's just a matter of time because   in the baltic states they have already [massacred] so many people who [protested]  
and that hasn't set too well with their diplomacy for the regarding the uh outcome of their affairs  
what's your synopsis  
uh_huh  
i think that it went up a thousand percent on most  
uh_huh  
but gorbachev has still not fully convinced everyone that   he's moving towards a two to three party system of government that nor eliminating or diminishing the communist power  
and i guess that's where yeltsin steps in so far as his politics of government goes uh  
but i don't know how convinced the people are of him yet myself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i understand  
uh_huh  
i agree  
what's bad for the soviet system is that they have the resources to grow and produce their food  
but somehow it just does not get out to the market the way it should  
yeah  
that's probably more true than   a lot of people realize  
uh_huh  
it seems to be headed in that direction too  
uh_huh   well their knowledge with uh better communication processes in this world now that's reached them is more educated than to the uh ways of the western world  
and uh i think that was a big stepping stone for them to initiate all their [righteous] ways of changing things too  
they  
probably not enough  
but i'm sure i lot of it's filtered down enough to the common folks that they have gotten wind of what they're missing out on  
yeah  
i'm sure a lot of them are missing those household items  
yeah  
what we consider just i don't normal everyday things to them is real luxury   which is unfortunate for them  
and of course most of us we don't really appreciate what we've got because we've been so used to it  
yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
yeah  
i can go with that answer too  
the only yes i could go to is if uh a [renegade] crew decides to launch an attack or an accidental [launching] or something to that effect to to a nuclear exchange  
but i don't even see that occurring   uh because their internal [strifes] are more important right now than concentrating on any kind of outside affairs that they used to be [adapted] to i guess  
uh_huh  
well they do have uh a major internal problem  
everybody wants to [defect]  
and i can understand why  
um i think their biggest problem is just you know [obtaining] food to live  
so when you have the basic needs uh   being [unmet] i don't think you think [globally] as far as you know being a threat to other people in the world  
so as soon as they get their their own home country taken care of then they'll consider   what they can do with the rest of the world  
well i do i do realize that uh uh the bush administration isn't too happy with with how they're handling their internal uh strife you know as far as diplomacy is concerned  
i think it's been a good a good positive direction for uh the soviets as far as yeltsin is concerned  
you know he was uh allowed to  
what  
in his in the congress they they gave him more power as far as his republic in russia is concerned which is gives him more power overall which i think is a good sign that there will be some you know  
politically speaking you know he's going to have more power  
and i think it's a step in the right direction  
i think gorbachev realizes that he's got a a major uh uh power figure you know competing against him  
and i think it's going to be pretty close to his [demise] if he doesn't follow suit with yeltsin as far as uh realizing  
well he does realize it you know with the fact that they reduced the uh or they increased the prices on their food food and goods  
uh   it  
yeah  
that's incredible  
but they had to uh go in the direction of a market driven economy  
and and they had to bite the bullet for that  
so that's a good move on on [gorbachev's] part in doing that  
so  
well that's all they got right now  
that's their ray of hope  
so you know they'll go with   you know whoever comes through for them  
i it it's just that   the weird thing is is that gorbachev is the one that opened the [floodgates] as far as with [glasnost] and [perestroika] and stuff  
and i think he's got between the old guard and and the new uh [glasnost]  
uh i think it's kind of escalated to a point where it's out of control  
and i think he had to pull in the [reins] the only way he knew how in order to keep the peace on peace on both sides  
so i think that's where you know kind of where he's stuck  
you know what i'm saying  
and that's the that's the situation that he finds himself in  
and you know he's a tough guy  
i mean he's been through it  
so i have no doubt that he'll  
i mean i i think overall he's been a a good figure for the soviet union  
i mean i think his intentions and his ideals are are uh well [intentioned]  
and in the long term  
but i just think that because of the basic needs that the people don't have  
i think that uh makes the problem most severe and makes him look look worse that what his um what his ideals are   personally  
i think it's i think it's a lot of uh-oh how do you put it bureaucracy and and uh one thing and then all the corruption  
i think there's a a large amount of corruption on the the have and the have nots   you know  
i   i know you're going to have that with every society  
at least we're more [blatant] about it  
but it's very secret  
and it's been going on for years  
i mean you can't change things overnight  
and but if it gets to a point where people can't survive i mean there's revolution you know  
and that's  
yeah  
big time  
major  
but you know that's that's what happens when you know the [cork] blows  
and you can't handle it anymore  
i mean that's   that's the way the world uh you know [revolves] that way  
anyway   i really question though how much technology the average soviet is exposed to  
yeah  
i think they're starting to realize  
but i i just don't think they have the resources if you were to compare uh the americans to the soviets as far as home computers are concerned or fact machines fax machines and cellular phones and state of the art equipment that we are so used to  
i don't think they even realize what's out there and to what extent  
yeah  
the major conveniences of life  
yeah  
this is true  
this is very true  
and we  
it's human it's human nature though to take things for granted  
and it kind of   you know  
when you've lost something or or uh uh don't have what other people have that's when you tend to realize you know what's out there and what you know what you have and what you don't have  
so the original question do we think their a threat to our you know a security threat  
um yes and no  
um no  
well i don't really feel that the soviets really want to blow up the world  
i mean um we painted them back in the fifties and sixties as as [nonfeeling] machine type people  
and they're people just like us  
i mean   you know they get up everyday  
and they put their pants on the same way  
and they have to eat and everything else  
and i just don't feel that  
go ahead  
um okay  
i guess i don't see them as much of a threat as they used to be  
but i think just the [instability] of the country right now is sort of scary  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess that's what concerns me the most is they're they're so unstable that somebody like that could make uh decisions that would [jeopardize] a lot of people  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it looks like it's come close to that as it is  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i haven't  
uh_huh  
you mean in the in the most recent conflict  
oh yeah  
definitely  
i i'm i'm a little bit shocked to what the u s has done in terms of selling to iraq in the past ten to fifteen years  
yeah  
i think we we kind of shoot ourselves in the foot that way too  
it's bad enough that the soviets do it  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's scary to know that they're supplying that many people with weapons especially when it's to the south of us  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think russia is getting to the point where they're they're about to do something to get out of communism  
i guess i'd would like to see somebody like yeltsin to get more power  
i think gorbachev has about had his day  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
true  
i don't know  
i sure wouldn't turn my back on them  
uh_huh  
at least they're learning a little bit from history  
i mean uh  
okay  
do i still still can feel that the soviet union as such is still a threat to the civilized western world  
absolutely  
and my reasons are based upon not only from what i read in the newspapers what i see on the newspapers but up against some of the fun and exciting things i ran into during my six years as a soldier in the fifth special forces group  
well that's what makes it a powder [keg]  
the um  
i'll go back in time a little bit to about eighty one   when my first real involvement with the military started  
um naturally we were at the time  
the soviet union was considered to be the big military power and the big threat  
so we got lots quite a bit of information as well as [indoctrination] on soviet [tactics] and weapons  
i went to lebanon in eighty three before the marines ever got there with the u n peace keeping force and with the training i received prior to going there with captured weapons we kept running up against  
these weren't these weren't chinese made copies  
these were soviet made top of the line fresh out of the box a k forty [sevens]   as well as a lot of the explosives we were running into  
in granada in october twenty fifth eighty three we invaded the place  
sure there were cuban soldiers there  
but there was also a bunch of russian advisors that were damn good shots  
the team i was with we jumped in on the western tip of of the island down on point [salinas]  
and for every cuban there was at least five russian advisors  
and they were all shooting state of the art soviet weapons  
in eighty four i was down in central america as an advisor to the [honduran] army  
again we were running up against [cubans] quite a bit plus soviet advisors  
and the equipment we were [capturing] and taking from the [nicaraguans] was brand new out of the [crate] soviet made material  
do i consider them a threat  
absolutely  
they have a university in moscow called the [patrice] de [lamumba] university  
about like a and m or u t where they're [teachings] subjects like that they're teaching terrorism  
some of the people we went up against in lebanon were graduates from that place  
and let me tell you they are nothing nice to go up against  
i'm surprised during this iraqi crisis we didn't have more incidents than they did  
these guys are top of the line  
when they when they graduate from there they can pull terrorist actions anywhere in the free world  
and they are very very good at what they do  
so until i see the entire quote old guard of the soviet military of the soviet government completely roll over and disappear [preferably] buried i still consider them a threat  
their military is different from ours to where there are extremist generals that actually control tens and thousands of troops  
that  
[irregardless] of what soviet policy is they're going to do what the general tells them  
well it's interesting watching the different soviet states [albania] lithuania doing their little [revolts] down there  
each one of those sectors has got a soviet general over the troops that are there  
so far they haven't run into the real [psychos] yet  
there's probably five or six which would be an equivalent of our joint chiefs of [staffs] that are in positions over some of these soviet states  
if [uprisings] happen in their sectors it is it's going to be a total blood bath  
actually they're showing remarkable restraint  
they get real nasty the [hyundee] helicopters come out  
and they would level entire areas  
okay  
you're from the dallas area right  
okay  
you know basically the size of uh the area around richardson  
you put five soviet [hyundee] helicopters in the air they can level the entire area  
and there won't be anything left alive  
and they can do that in about four minutes  
and they've got entire squadrons of those just standing by  
they used them in [afghanistan] did remarkably well considering the terrain they were flying in  
but on a highly populated area like some of the soviet cities would be with the weaponry that's attached on those things there is no place to hide  
if the bombs don't get you if the bullets don't get you then then the nerve gas definitely will get you  
the only drawback on that little piece of machinery is they only got five minutes of air time  
they drink that much fuel  
were you  
have you  
i take it you haven't spent any time in the military  
as a civilian that's never been attached to any form of the military  
i know a lot of this stuff that i was involved in never did make the newspapers  
but during that same time frame didn't you get some feeling that i mean they're getting all these weapons and stuff  
didn't it bug you a little bit why they kept coming up with all this stuff  
in any of them since eighty one  
it all boils down to whether it's our side their side  
it's a matter of money   to a certain extent  
the deal the [iraqi's] have with the russians was for oil  
uh the ones to the south are more regional conflict  
they're not really that worried about invading north  
they're more interested in  
they've got a screwed up situation i'll give them that from mexico all the way down into central and south america  
the situation down there is weird  
and it's very screwed up  
inflation is out of this world  
and the governments which our government has technically supported for years are corrupt as all get out  
and generally the people   are getting screwed  
and they're tired of it  
and they're willing to try anything to get out from under it even if that means going to communism  
unfortunately [yeltsin's] got too many connections with the old guard  
that's the only drawback that i see with the entire thing  
gorbachev has made his attempt  
and he's had his problems with some of the old guard himself  
[yeltsin's] in tight with the old guard  
so it may be trying to choose between the lesser of two evils   at this point  
you mean  
i understand when they pulled the troops out of uh or they reduced the number of troops in europe after the berlin wall went down  
i thought that was great  
but by no means do i [endorse] or approve pulling everybody out  
it may be a much reduced force than what we used to have over there  
but you still better have the key players in place if something does go down even if it's a regional conflict  
if united states is going to flex its muscle and be the super power that it is not only does it it can talk the talk but it's got to be able to walk the walk  
it's got to have the stuff to back it back up what it's saying  
if you've only got a token force there you can't hold your ground  
okay  
i don't  
do you have an opinion on that on the u s r  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
sure  
that happens  
uh_huh  
sure  
i guess in particular my viewpoint is that they financially cannot go into a war  
uh they are desperate at this point in time to keep their country together  
but i could not foresee them [severing] what they have with the u s um because they need us at this current time because of their financial situation  
um from what i've been hearing is the u s uh s r has been uh almost bankrupt for years  
and it's people are desperate  
and there might be a revolution within the people  
but i don't think the u s would get involved with it because uh there's too close of ties to where i think they understand that gorbachev is trying to make a change and that we cannot run them like we run the u s   and that they have to make their own independent decision  
so i guess i really have no fear at all of the u s s r verses uh  
you get these small little uh places like iraq and all of that that might be something that i'd be more concerned about with nuclear weapons verses uh a small uh or as big country of u s s r  
i i i have no feelings that they would ever start a war with us because to them it would totally you know it would totally destroy their whole country because our technology is far advanced from what theirs is at this current time  
so i mean sure  
they have weapons to kill us over and over and over  
but to them that would be a suicide  
and they  
and the russian people are not [suicidal] type of people  
but if you get the iraqis and iran which will do it for the country for the pleasure of you know doing whatever uh for their country they'll do it uh  
sure  
sure   uh_huh  
sure  
i have a daughter that's frustrated  
she's on a a [stool] that she can get up on  
but  
if she can't get down on it it's like get me down right now  
but anyway it was really good talking to you  
and you have a good weekend  
uh_huh  
thank you  
bye now  
well the  
i think i'm i'm skeptical about the whole thing uh and a still a little bit worried about them because of the the history of russia  
and they're in a in a state of [flux] right now changing uh uh changing a great deal   primarily because of the economic [distress]  
and even in that situation uh the it seems like to me from what i've read in in the history of russia and and you know different authors uh there has always been a paranoia  
they've always suspected everybody  
and   and that's why they put you know that's why they put a lot of people in prison for years and years  
and that's why they put a lot of people to death  
yes  
but stalin was a was a classical example i guess of that paranoia because he   he probably killed more russians than uh you know the russian army killed anybody else  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
you're a i think you're right  
there's a little more craziness down there  
uh the russian people i think are not that much different   from us  
you know i think they're   that it would be the leadership that i i uh [mistrust]  
yeah  
you too  
thank you  
bye bye  
let me ask you do you think the soviet union is a still a threat to the united states  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well i think there's a a struggle within the soviet union  
um i think the people are are just fed up  
and i think it's showing  
and all the republic is trying to gain their independence  
and i think uh that's making gorbachev and others realize that hey maybe this communist thing isn't working  
right  
that's right  
i think  
well that that could be  
you know what i  
we always we think of the k g b and we think such bad things you know  
but i wouldn't doubt if the soviet people think c i a and they think such bad things you know  
exactly  
they do  
oh yeah  
they do you know  
oh yeah  
oh absolutely  
that's part of that propaganda thing  
and i think if we can get away from that or if we can keep that out of our minds oh  
excuse me i've got a cold today  
thank you  
um i think if we can get that propaganda thing because i'm sure both countries are seeing seeing it you know thinking k g b and c i a and all that  
but uh   just on an economic point of view if the soviet union doesn't do something fast they are they ain't going to be able to feed their people this   this winter you know  
but   on the other hand i'm kind of getting fed up with uh our own country and presidency uh always concerning themselves with other [nations'] problems when we have so many at home yet  
right  
right  
that's right  
you know we've got uh we've got quite a few domestic problems that uh that i feel we ought to be concentrating more on  
i think the problem is you know  
on the international scope maybe the president feels that uh you know for long term relations with all these countries it's important  
and well we'll we'll always have the united states  
and you know we need to solve these international problems  
but um i think i heard in the news about last week sometime that uh the president ended up [canceling] one of his international trips so he could spend more time on on a domestic issue because the american public is kind of getting fed up with it  
right  
right  
yep  
no  
that's right  
that's right  
well i   think uh i think in the long  
do you know  
i don't know what to think  
i i uh  
the person i am i want to believe that it's an honest effort  
i want to believe that that they really are trying to change that that maybe they are headed for a more democratic society  
and i i want to believe it's all okay  
but then there's that side of me that says yeah  
but they've put on faces before   and never to this extent though you know  
so so it's like there is a struggle within me going do do i be open minded and give them the benefit of the doubt which is kind of my basic personality  
you know i   i trust people  
i'll do that  
or do i keep on going well we'll wait and see  
yeah  
that's it's not just a or uh western society telling you it's it doesn't work  
you know they've always said you know the the soviet people were united  
we believe this  
and maybe they are seeing that no no hey we don't believe this you know  
but   it's still you know  
i guess i keep that one part of me that's like  
well i don't know i want to trust them  
and i  
it's like i can't  
and maybe it's because you know we've had our own propaganda over the years  
i don't know  
and they probably do the same things  
you think the c i a doesn't spy  
i'm sure they do  
now the difference is we don't i i don't think we take people and kill them just because they don't believe what we believe  
you know i think to that extent we don't go as far  
but i'm sure they lie you know  
so  
that's all right  
i hope you get better  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
and i'm not against them being concerned  
but i feel like we ought to be spending maybe the same time and effort and and energy into trying to solve our own or resolve our own  
you know i mean you know any any country that wants to be democratic i'm all for helping them you know because i i understand that you know you are looking at the united states as the biggest and longest supporter of that type of government  
but at the same time i i agree  
i don't think we can do it and and just you know turn our backs or or be ignorant per se to the things that are happening here  
yeah  
we we we believe in what he's doing abroad  
but but like you said there's issues here too  
and but i i am encouraged by what is happening in the soviet union  
i'm encouraged by what's happened in you know the the iron curtain countries you know   in in that block  
and and i think it's moved in the right direction  
i i think sometimes people expect it to happen overnight  
you know it's not going to  
it didn't happen here overnight  
and it didn't happen here without a struggle   you know  
and i i think sometimes we forget that  
but i i i i have to say yes i'm you know i'm encouraged by the way it's going uh  
uh  
okay
my views it asked for my views
so my views on that are yes
i do still consider them a threat
and yes i do
and the reason i do is because um i've with uh gorbachev was raised
it was [nikita] [khrushchev] i believe
i know it was one of the old old school russian and uh he he is a definite he is a marxist leninist communist through and through and marxist leninist communism is a threat to the united states
because um the whole nature of it is to control the world
the the whole goal of the marxist leninist theology is world [domination] and i do not believe that it has not they've never stated that their goal is not to you know take over the world
and they've never repented of all the [massacres] all the just the you know the hundreds of thousands of uh [massacres] they've killed more [jews] and all this
and so no
i don't trust them a bit
i think it's a big scam
yes
i do i
yes
i would all
but say i know it's a scam you can't trust him he was the head of the k g b for years
yes
he was for many many years
he was trained in the old school of [lenin] theology and he he's never changed any of his any of the he he deals in that kind of theology he's you know he might say one thing
but what he does is marxist and leninist in nature
and so that's why the russians are so angry with him
right now
is because they've they know it's a scam and so you know i that's what i feel i don't know
what do you feel do you agree with me or disagree
uh_huh
right
well if he got out of line too much from the old school they'd just knock him off
they're not going to permit anyone in that russian parliament to get in power that's going to change anything too much so
right
uh_huh
no
because they've taken them from the people because the marxist leninist theology is to
i mean it really is
its own religion it it could be classified in [theological] terms as a religion because it is
but they deny god self is everything self you know everything is um for me for me for me
and therefore right
but that's not what they really do
they say that
but that's not the reality of it
even the [bolshevik] revolution the whole thing was uh an attempt to uh gain authority without you know having to be [risen] up in authority the best way to get [godly] authority is to you know work
and and work your way to the you know work your way up
not not being promoted by man because promotion comes from god
but when you anytime you see a go in and just [overtake] it
and it's take it take authority take control
it's a i believe it's a spiritual thing that happens
and it's like a spirit of witchcraft it's like a a bad spirit goes over that nation
because you have these people that want they're power hungry
and they want all this power
and they want to control all these people
and it's not for the people
it's for themselves and the way you know
that is because they didn't work their way up from the bottom up they went in
and they took power
and they took authority
and they cut
and they stab and and our nation does that a lot too
i know it's not necessarily i don't think this is the greatest system either
but i just feel like there's just a lot of oppression over the soviet union because of that the authority is there to [exalt] self that's the whole leninist theology they deny god they deny any [creator] they've [forbade] religion for years and years and god's the one that opened the doors for their for for christianity to go in russia it's not it's not gorbachev he will not receive the credit for that
because one man saying that could not have done anything god had to open those doors and i believe that the the pressure just got so great from the people because that they you know they god just honored their [prayers] and did a miracle because i don't know
we our pastor went to russia and we work with a lot of churches in [minsk] and in [belev] russia and some other places
and for russia that's why i think it's funny
we got this call because i have a good friend my one of my best friends is going into into the underground church
because it basically it's still underground it
and so they're going in a mission trip into [latvia] in about six months and so they're preparing for the trip you know and and it was i sat behind her sunday
and they had their russia team [folder] so i thought oh that's cool
so anyway so this is kind of one of my little pet babies
but anyway
i don't know
i just i think they want a one world order that's what i think i think gorbachev would like to see a one world order a one world economic community and a one world government with him in charge of it
and bush is going around talking about it too
and it's like all these [pawns] on this chess all these players on this big chess game
you know
and it's a world championship and who is ultimately going to get the power
who's going to get put in [checkmate] and who's going to be ruled out of the game
and who's going to have the power over what they want to establish in this one world you know they're always talking about it all the time
yeah
uh_huh
are you a christian
you must be to know new age
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
but yeah
i think that they still are a threat
but yet
maybe a different kind of a threat
than a military threat
but i do believe that they're a military threat
i think i mean just look what we did to iraq
i mean
right
uh_huh
that's true
yeah
that's true
they did didn't they
i know it's it's interesting
i still wouldn't want to take them on though you know i still wouldn't want to take them
i still think we need to be very careful
but i believe that their economic and or an economic threat more than anything at this point in because they because they want control over the i know they want control over the european economic community
and that you know that's why i see them [diversifying] their their power
and their control that they have
and like for you know instead of just being oh big tough russia
but i still believe they've uh they've probably got weapons we i mean they they never would sell to anybody else
you know
so i guess i feel like
yeah
they probably i wouldn't want to mess with them
but i don't trust them
i'm not all like oh yeah
they're just like us
i i have a heart for the people of russia
no
i wouldn't be surprised if gorbachev wasn't a wasn't a [satanist] i'm not kidding
you're right
even yeah
exactly
even you know in our own country
i mean bush was in the [scull] and bones the [trilateral] commission and all these groups with [ulterior] motives and so it's like what on earth is you know are these people ever here and involved in in the higher high [ranking] things
i mean when you look at their history and what they've done to their own people
what they've done
it's like man can we trust them have they repented for what they did
have they made a world apology we we repented for we're going to start seeking god
and we're going to start seeing god to do for our nation what needs to be done
and even bush will call a national day of prayer is bush saved i don't know
god knows he says he is
and i'm going to trust that with him
but i mean it's just no
i don't trust them
you'd be crazy if you trust them
but anyway call it
what is it [mccarthyism] no
i'm not like that
i just got enough common sense that nope
you know i'll till you come [repent] make a world apology for all the [wrongs] that you've done
and yeah
we've done [wrongs] but we've not done near the atrocities they've done
and we need to maybe do that also you know you know i'm saying
i'm not saying like oh america we're so we're perfect over here
i'm not saying that either
but that's not what the question asked so
boy i could
i personally feel like as long as the soviet union exists it's going to be a threat to the united states
and
that's right
and i think that we've made a lot of strides in the last several years with them
but i don't feel like that
we can ever turn our back on them
and no
i i just think that
yeah
and i i have to wonder sometimes how much of their dependence is um you know it's it's sort of a false dependence just to while they're building their own uh way of doing things that they're making us think that they depend that much on us so that we don't watch them more closely
you know
i'm very suspicious of them
yeah
that's right
that's right
and i you know they they want to know what it would take to convince us that they aren't a threat
and i don't know that there's anything that can be done to convince us of that because you know we just see how if you let your guard down in any situation how you know how quickly that persian gulf situation [arose]
um i don't i don't think that that we can ever be convinced as a country that that they're going to change
or you know not be a threat
yeah
and even even the strides that were made toward that
though you know gorbachev seems to have he seems to have lost his steam in in that direction
and you know he seems to be [repressing] his own people again
and i don't think that i think that a lot of the the forward progress that was made came to a halt you know in the middle of that persian gulf crisis
yeah
see so many of them have gotten a taste of of democracy
and they're kind of in between right now they're they're not uh they're not getting the benefits of being a democratic place
but they they know what they are
and uh the country tells them that you know this is what it's like to be a democracy and they're still hurting
so you know they're getting
i guess the worst of all worlds right now
ugh
that's true
right
and east germany
yeah
that's right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
it's one of those things that all looks good on paper
but putting it into reality
is a whole different ball game
that's true
that's right
yeah
that's right
i you know that's another thing the news media in the in the soviet union
i wouldn't trust them either you know
i wouldn't trust them to to send send a story about the united states to their people correctly
and uh
yeah
i think our next biggest threat is the japanese
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
and and i have a real problem with the government you know giving away things to the the other countries that have as as much ability to to do harm to us as anyone
and you know like giving them plans for the some of the uh top secret aircraft that we have
and things like that
i mean that's ridiculous
that is only asking for trouble
yeah
that's exactly right
nope
me either
okay
same here
have a good weekend
so i personally uh do consider the soviet union a threat
i i i think that although there's been some fundamental changes
and that there's uh uh the uh the mood for change that there's a lot of change left to happen
and that there's uh still communism which is [fundamentally] opposed to democracy
and there's still missiles
oh really
yes
right
right
right
right
well i guess that that that brings up a question is it
their
i think in in the long term we could see a a situation where there are in incredible civil wars and that the the structure of the country breaks down and there's strife and much much death
but until that happens be between now and then there's a lot of other uh events that could happen including a [resurgence] of communism with uh violent uh backlash against democracy
which is where we could be in threatened i guess you'd say
i'm sorry
you're right
i'm am meaning to say capitalism yes
that's true
uh_huh
but not necessarily enough from the soviet union's people's point of view
yeah
yeah
right
that's right
that's right
right
uh_huh
i see
i i agree with that
i don't believe that will happen
the um well one thing that's of interest is is if the soviet union's structure does break down
and there is civil war at the end of those civil wars or during those civil wars in whose hands will those missiles be
and there are a lot of them uh scattered throughout the many many republics right
almost a [terroristic] thought come help us or we'll bomb you
that's
right
that's right
i know it's almost amazing how little you hear about dan quayle and when you do
it's usually totally yeah
yeah
he still wants to send people to mars
the guy's uh lame to say the least
oh well
so that's uh what what's going to be real interesting is if when they have the next presidential elections
if bush is going to run with quayle again
or if he's going to run with someone else which i think would be uh i wonder if that's
if there's precedent for that where uh there's uh same president
but a different vice president
is it
but without something like death or [impeachment] i i can't recall
yeah
that's right
i guess in the last elections it was it was the lesser of several evils
yeah
that's right
yeah
oh well
so let's see back to the that key issue
uh the the other part of the question was what would uh what would have to happen to convince me
and i seems to me uh that the missiles are the threat
and so what would have to happen is a complete [disarmament] uh and uh that's you know i'd love to see that happen
but i doubt it's going to happen in the next fifty years
i don't
no
personally i i as i said i would really love to see it happen
but i just
uh_huh
i see under the fear that that uh moscow gets bombed
that's a good point
that's a very good point
in fact
right
yes
i see
that's a good great point okay well
so
yeah
it was nice talking to you too brian good day
all right
you don't
i don't i don't think they have enough control to really uh to really do anything against us
i don't think they're as strong as we think they are personally
but yeah that i see i see your point because you know they they feed us propaganda
and we never know what they're thinking
right
sure
right
right
well i think taking you know when we took that went to war with iraq
i think we that was kind of a uh display of power
and i think we i think the soviet union knows what we have and knows that we're pretty serious
and if they ever tried to do anything we would we would be on the offensive yeah
but
are they going to have the backing from the people you know
right
right
because there's fifteen different republics yeah
right
right
well
right
i know i wouldn't think we you know i don't think it's a matter of trust even any more
i mean it's just okay
you lay this down
we'll lay this down
but that doesn't mean we we're not we're going to stop watching you and making sure you're not you know
right
i don't know
i know it
right
right
right
i just you know that that's another thing that scares me is our country
you know what are we doing
what are they actually telling us
and after you know what happened
the other day with that uh c i a guy you know
how much is what all the wars we're getting into and all the you know the messes we're we're bombing us ourselves with
right
is that true
or you know
is it
is really a threat
right
right
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
really
well if it just keeps on going
and nobody ever does anything that's fine with me
well i am more uh more scared than than ever actually by it because to me if you look at the uh situation in the soviet union and eastern europe
it closely [parallels] the situation around the turn of the century with the fall of the [ottoman] empire yeah
and there's the the huge power vacuum and no one to control the local economies over there
the inner uh trade between those republics and the satellites of or what used to be the satellites of the soviet union and i'm afraid that it's just going to going to have regional [infighting] just like there was before world war one
and we're going to be stuck in another war
uh_huh
right
sure
right
oh really
yeah
and it's worse now
uh_huh
rebel you
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
sure
oh god
hey wait a minute the water comes out here
it it
looks like that too
uh_huh
jeez
uh_huh
the wonders of western culture
get to shave your legs
uh_huh
so you did this one year in college
where did you go to school
south dakota
uh i'm an officer in the air force at uh [griffis] air force base
yeah
so i'm i'm just a lieutenant i'm only twenty four so it's interesting hearing from someone of my perspective
i always think that my view is always so much older
and uh more conservative
but uh
i don't know if i've maybe done older spent a little more time learning from history than the average [armchair] uh
yeah
yeah
and everybody's jumping up and down [praising] all this
and you you know it's
great
yeah
you know there's i think there's only one thing that's worse than the communist government and that's no government
yeah
there there really are
well i don't think uh uh i don't think you can rule out anything like that
and especially when when it gets to the point where things are really desperate then uh then the military becomes a threat as well
and uh you know there the military still has a lot of power
and somebody has to control all those nuclear weapons it's not evenly the situation isn't even is so much
so it's kind of an obsolete question at this point
since there isn't a soviet union any more
but for for
right
right
we can say the the soon to be former uh common wealth and independent states instead is that
um
well i i don't consider them so much to be a threat any more in terms of them using it as that we are already starting to see demonstrations in a very cash starved country you know those people the [commodities] that can be sold to people who i i worry a lot more about than the soviet union
you know i mean we already have the case where they had those uh guys selling trying to sell [uranium] on the open market
yeah
and it's
i i've been hearing suggestions we set a fund up to get them into alternative areas of research at some reasonable amount of pay
so they don't go to libya or somewhere like that
right
i i think actually you know except for the fact that we have to be due west of them
and we get a [fallout] cloud i don't think the the [probability] that we're going to be involved in the first strike of anything
it's it's fairly high
but you know there's certainly a lot of people arguing there right now who all have nuclear weapons and there is also the concern that some of the [sovereign] uh republics who are a lot of [islamic] some of them have nuclear weapons based in them
and if they break off and for instance decide to [align] with iran or iraq then suddenly we are in a very difficult position
um
yeah
yeah
right
and then of course the other things is you've got them arguing over their nuclear subs and all of that
so there's not a question whether one of the uh sub drivers is going to decide to become free lance well i don't i don't want to go with russia
so i'm going to uh you know sell myself to the highest [bidders] or something
right
right
you know the the other possible scenario of course is that in in it's going to be hard for the entire area to have electricity between russia especially now there's a lot of hard liners coming back cause the the economic reforms aren't working we could find ourselves right back in the same position again
the only thing that i think we have got going for us is we have a very large stick in the form of economic aide and technological aide and a lot of the republics seem to be more interested in getting the aide in than having the nuclear weapons
yeah
yeah
but i i have to say that the overall things are instead of the [unstability] in the area are actually more stable than they before
because i think [inherently] our the the chance that we are going to be involved in it
and i think it's fairly low i think none of them are foolish enough to want to attack the united states
yeah
i mean all of them are looking to us for help not for not looking to us for you know uh invasion at this point
uh_huh
so you know i i think it's more going to be
i don't think we're looking at at potential for anything large scale uh you know i think there's certainly some people in in the u s government who would like us to think that they're still a threat uh you know i was listening to m p r yesterday talk about the sea [hawk] submarine and you know i'm saying you know
wait a minute here why do we want to build like two or three [multibillion] dollar [submarines] you know
and the reason it'll keep people out in connecticut alive
but
well the soviet union uh now really called the commonwealth of independent states uh is a mess
uh i think one of the biggest things we have to worry about is the uh control of nuclear arms especially ukraine and russia
right
yeah
you know i suppose you you say to yourself what will no rational uh person would would would launch nuclear weapons uh but i guess that that wouldn't necessarily hold uh for some radical government or temporary take over even
right
jeez
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
right
i guess i agree with that uh
right
right
well i think that that there's a uh [qualitative] difference that uh russia and and much of the soviet union still has a lot a natural resources that
some of those other countries you mentioned just never had so that uh you know the commonwealth states could could easily you know [leapfrog] the uh the you know stepping stone path uh laid out by the by the southeast asian countries
right
yeah
yeah
get we're we're still going through a a uh you know a settling period uh you know they're not sure who they want their leaders to be they're not sure how they want the you know uh relationships between the states to to shape
so but i agree you know we need another couple of years to to let them uh settle down and uh start cooperating
yeah
it was yes
what did you think about the uh former soviet union
yeah
it seems that way sometimes you wonder if uh an economic threat isn't going to drive people to do things that would be more drastic than if uh they were a little more peaceful you know
but i think it would probably not be uh a threat to the united states if that was the case it would probably be europe uh other areas of europe there
well that is what it seemed like even before they uh [dissolved] the union which was becoming less and less of a threat to the united states
uh more and more of an attempted uh you know relating on more or less normal basis
are you uh involved
oh that's true
yeah
that is for sure
are you involved in any kind of uh political analysis or anything
no
not really
we are involved in some of our company work in the soviet union and but not in uh any area of uh endeavor that would be of any interest to uh you know [militarily] or anything
uh linguistics primarily and so it's interesting to see uh how things are going there
and and uh the people there are facing the same kind of economic [deprivation] that uh you know the russian citizens are
but it does relate to much to military situations
yeah
i read an an article in the recent uh wall street journal interview with a family there
and uh we think of how great
it is to go to you know a flea market uh that sort of thing
and they are facing uh something that most people are not even aware you know familiar with
they don't know how to deal with it
how do you compete when you're whole you know life has been built on uh working for the state and everything you know
right
you face the same uh bureaucratic uh [headaches] whether you work or don't work
so now they you know
so really
it must be uh a really traumatic time for the people
as well as the uh lack of supplies or anything like that adjusting to the new way of thinking about things
uh_huh
yeah
right
taught to understand
yeah
that is right
yeah
perhaps the uh if we give aid of some sort
you know maybe it will turn them around
if it is done done correctly you know
sure
you mean in our country or in
sure
oh yes  
yes  
very much  
as a matter of fact i prefer public television  
and uh i have particularly enjoy the english comedies   and the english mysteries  
yes  
[vociferously]  
yes  
well unfortunately for us at least here in the united states we the only access we have to that of course is public television  
i'm i'm not a great television watcher in any respect  
but uh the watching  
what i do watch is uh usually news and whatever is on public television  
any kind of  
i also uh am very fond of great performances   in that regard  
but uh  
no  
no  
no  
as a matter of fact uh turner broadcasting   has been uh broadcasting all of the james bond movies   every night this week  
so i have concentrated on watching james bond movies   this week  
well they're showing uh live and let die at this moment  
and it is the first appearance of roger moore as double oh seven  
so  
no  
no  
that's true  
i was just thinking that today he did   well in some of the later movies he looks very [effeminate]   in his early movies  
whereas uh sean connery has maintained the uh how would you uh [ruddy] look  
but uh   oh yes  
well you know he was when was it last year or year before last he was voted the [sexiest] actor in movies   or something  
i mean the man is sixty two years old  
but uh but otherwise you know we  
uh with p b s and so forth  
and i   i particularly enjoy i don't know whether you've had a chance to watch it on p b s but uh the series uh yes minister  
that was about a the interior minister  
it was a comedy  
the interior minister of in england   with the permanent secretary   and bureaucracy and all that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
well i i i'm not much of a television watcher  
i i read as i said   and uh quite a bit  
i read about two or three novels a week   in addition to all the technical stuff  
what what do you do  
what kind of work do you do  
at t i  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
well the last two people who have called both worked for t i  
and i just wondered  
i think that's something we all  
no  
no  
i work for g t e   in maryland  
yes  
i guess not  
how did i hear about it  
well i work you know  
they are gathering a data base for voice processing  
and that's my field of work also  
so i i know the people at t i who are doing this  
and i heard about it  
so i called them and asked if i could participate and uh   you know send in the forms et cetera and uh so forth  
we could go back to television shows  
yes  
i have  
well no  
that's uh  
you could interpret it that way  
uh i i think what they are trying to say is that there is a great deal of historical truth  
but the interpretation that actually got into the writing of the bible itself is probably uh after the what uh was is it the king james version when the committee did it wrote the translation that so much was lost in the translation particularly since most of the translations were in greek  
well for example in greek there are seven different words for love  
okay  
so you can have  
there's one word for love of your brother one word for love of your wife one word for you know uh love of your father and that sort of thing  
so in as to those types of [interpretations] uh really made a difference in how one might interpret the bible now and what it's at  
so that's you know  
you can look at it as though they are saying it's not true  
but there's too much historical fact involved just from the uh the histories that are were developed around that time that are available   to deny that at least the majority of it is true  
so you know it depends on how you look at it  
you can look at it you know  
if you want to say that it's proven that it isn't true then you can very much look at it that way  
yeah  
well   well you can interpret that the what the t v show in the same way that you can interpret the bible  
so  
but uh as as far as that goes i we at least agree on what we enjoy  
but uh i don't know if there is there is a time limit on this   so uh  
i think so too  
let's just  
it's been very pleasant talking to you  
and have a good evening  
good night  
okay uh  
my favorite show is masterpiece theatre  
and it has been for a long time  
but i feel almost ashamed to say that to anybody now because i have never met anybody who likes it  
do you by any chance  
you do  
well wouldn't you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i watch mysteries too  
is that what you're referring to  
okay  
yeah  
that is good  
i like uh  
do you read  
okay  
well that's the reason why i like both of those programs is because they're kind of based on books  
and the plots are more um challenging you know than the sitcoms of regular t v  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
did you stay up late and catch this red dwarf  
oh that was a scream  
uh_huh  
really  
i used to like him too  
he was my hero  
in fact i like sean connery to this day  
yeah  
yeah  
oh he can never cut it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
he does  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i liked his accent too  
and he can even be in movies that are not uh uh sexually oriented  
and he still comes off great  
he is  
yeah  
he had my vote double  
i don't care  
yeah  
oh what's that about  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i i've seen it several times  
it's a scream  
but i have to go to bed  
i have to get up and and work the next morning  
i wish they'd put those  
that's why i say did you stay up late to watch this red dwarf  
it came on after doctor who   on saturday nights here at least  
and it should  
of course i  
really it was  
i don't think they should show it during prime time  
but still   it was funny  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm a payroll clerk  
just an accounting clerk  
no uh  
i have a friend who works for t i  
and i work for a tire service   here in  
i'm from dallas  
yeah  
yeah  
it could be t i i think probably are participating more than anybody else  
but i needed the money  
this is five bucks here  
yeah  
really  
do you work for t i  
really  
how did you hear  
oh we're not even supposed to be talking about this though are we  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
right  
well you know speaking of public tv have you caught any of this series on the bible  
i've heard that it's really against the well i mean that it's coming out with the idea that the [bible's] not true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess if you're looking for that you're  
that uh  
uh_huh  
really  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
surely we've made it  
it was very nice talking to you  
you too  
bye bye  
well do you have any uh television programs that you watch regularly  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
oh you will  
relax  
well i watch um  
i like news programs like you mentioned  
and sometimes i will watch um like the cable news network evening news program  
yeah  
i i like that  
i i watch that a couple of times a week um  
it comes on like at nine o'clock   at night  
and i really don't have any like situation comedies that i watch regularly  
i i have seen that um murphy brown that comes on   monday nights before  
and it's kind of cute  
and but i don't  
uh_huh  
oh but  
uh_huh  
right  
i know who you're talking about  
i haven't i have seen it i think maybe once  
i like that  
well i um i  
we really don't watch too many programs regularly  
my children like some of the morning children's shows   when they're home  
they um  
i just have one son who's in kindergarten  
so in the morning they will like to watch like um [eureka's] castle it's called  
it's just like a sesame street   show  
but and they watch a couple of shows like that  
but i don't watch any daytime t v at all  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
oh that's nice  
uh_huh  
that sounds like a good idea  
i notice that um since we moved here that we we did get the cable t v  
and when the newspaper comes out on sunday i sometimes read through the movies that will be listed  
and i record some  
and then uh we have just totally cut down  
and we never go to like a video tape rental anymore because there's always plenty of things that we can record and then   and watch and then record over it something else  
and so that's been really nice because if you decide one evening you would like to stay home and have a quiet evening and watch a movie then you have two or three saved  
uh_huh  
well that's probably what i watch most frequently besides like news programs is the movies  
and they have a couple of channels that are like nostalgic older movies   that i have really enjoyed that i'm seeing for the first time   like the [marx] brothers and things like that  
uh_huh  
right  
and so we we have really enjoyed that  
and it's really nice not to be running out  
some of the video [rentals] can be expensive  
and  
uh_huh  
right  
going and paying six dollars for a ticket for one person at the theater or something  
so we  
i have  
and it's so convenient at home  
and you can do it anytime you take the notion  
and so i have really enjoyed that  
but but there are  
i do have friends that watch programs  
like they want to see a particular program and they are either home watching it or definitely recording it  
they have some programs that they won't miss  
yes  
well and things are repeated   so often that you know if if i have seen just a program once chances are it'll be that exact same show   if i ever decide to tune it in again  
the only one i've ever seen and it'll be showing again  
pretty funny  
but uh t v is something that we try to not um deliberately try not to get hung up on it   like you say  
uh_huh  
and we don't want our kids to to grow up thinking that that's what you do with your   spare time  
so it's a little bit something that we try doing  
and there's there's a lot of good children's programs that you could watch they could watch several hours every day  
and you could say oh that's a good program for them because it's educational  
but still you want them to go out and do other things  
even if they're   good programs you don't want them sitting there watching them  
anyway well  
yeah  
that was pretty good  
i i like that  
and um i guess it's time to go  
yes  
nice to have spoken with you too  
bye bye  
oh this is kind of tough  
i don't too often watch you know shows that are on on a regular bases  
i don't have a lot of time  
and i don't really like some of them to tell you the truth  
i mean i don't thing they have any redeeming value  
but uh-oh i watch things like uh sixty minutes   every week  
uh ugh  
it's kind of tough to think of some of the others although i do watch some of some of those frivolous things  
uh   like on thursday nights at nine o'clock when i get home from aerobics i will watch uh knots landing  
yeah  
just something like that for you know uh end of the evening type of thing  
but uh how about you  
yeah  
i don't get that so i don't have   that choice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but there's a couple of those i've seen once in a while  
uh i can't think of the name of the one that has the uh military uh fellow  
i mean he's playing a military part  
he's the husband of   the girl on designing women  
yeah  
you know it it was on one time when i saw it  
and you know it it's pretty cute  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
i don't  
i guess uh there's some uh things on channel thirteen that i watch pretty regularly  
on saturdays they have uh a variety of things uh  
and a lot of times i record it and watch it some other time  
but uh   they have programs on uh house repairs and   how to build things  
and um they have a [calligraphy] show  
and i do [calligraphy] so i watch that  
and um they have a lot of cooking shows  
and oh you know i'll just short of have it on sometimes to just sort of pick up little tidbits from those  
i don't sit and watch them but but i enjoy some of it and especially if i'm uh cooking on a saturday evening or something  
and one of those is on it kind of [inspires] me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we do some of that  
in fact i probably am more interested in watching some of the movies that are on t v   than you know other kinds of things  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
those are pretty good  
i i like those old ones   much better than some of the new stuff  
yeah  
and boy  
the movie can be unbelievable  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'm not that hung up to most things  
i mean if i miss something big deal  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we do too  
too many other things to do and too much going on  
right  
right  
i agree  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
okay  
well we probably exhausted that huh  
okay  
i enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
good bye  
okay  
well my favorite probably all time t v show is star trek  
and i would it like that  
i i like the adventure of it   and the idea that that we would survive long enough to get to that point and be able to do these fantastic things in space  
and then i like the  
they have a new one now  
the star trek the next generation   which it's an all new cast but kind of the same idea going out to new places and and doing new things and finding out about different people  
and i've i've always liked that show probably the very best  
uh_huh  
yeah  
those  
the movies are good too  
and i i guess all most of the shows i like are are kind of along the same line because they're all adventure  
when i when i started thinking about this that those are some of my favorite shows mcgyver because it's it's only one person there more than uh you know instead of a cast   of people  
but he's always going out and [inventing] new things out of scrap and grabbing what he can and you know pieces of [baling] wire and and a few tires and all of a sudden he's got a hang [glider]  
and  
you haven't  
uh_huh  
he's like a [semigovernment] type agent who goes out then to uh works for the phoenix foundation supposedly  
and uh his big thing is that he can take pieces of little bits and pieces of string and [baling] wire and turn them into fantastic different things  
he took a car battery and some wire and two washers one time and made a [welder]  
so he he does all kinds of strange things like that  
yeah  
see what we can come up with  
do you like the uh news shows twenty twenty sixty minutes those kind of things  
uh_huh  
some of the   little things  
yeah  
uh  
oh  
i guess i haven't ever had any trouble with that  
i have more or less i have my favorite shows  
and i usually make time in my day or my week you know to watch those  
but for the most part i try i have small kids and i try and keep it on just a minimum amount of time really when they're up  
because they're  
i guess that that that falls  
and one of my other favorite shows is sesame street because of the kids  
i like that real well  
i don't think they have that on anymore  
i haven't seen the electric company in a long time  
i i remember it when i was younger of you know catching it on p b s  
but uh i don't think they show  
it must be in  
maybe it's in  
if it was in repeats  
but they're not making new ones  
i haven't seen it in a long time  
but sesame street is still really good  
yes  
yeah  
they still show mister rogers  
i don't think he's making new ones  
but they repeat all the old ones  
so that's still a real good show too  
i  
that one tends to come on earlier in the day than i want to turn the t v on  
sesame street comes on from like nine to ten which is a good time  
and everybody is up and had breakfast and dressed and ready to go  
so it's  
the timing of of it is good besides the what's on  
yes  
i have two little ones  
so they like that  
they come on both  
they come on like from nine to ten and then from uh five to six  
they just repeat   over again which is also  
that's another thing that's good about it  
when it comes on right in the dinner hour i can feel like i can let them sit in front of the t v and watch  
and they're watching something worthwhile while i can make dinner and do things i need to do   without them under foot  
yeah  
uh it didn't hurt them any  
some shows are good for  
i think some shows some  
star trek i  
for the imagination of it all  
the idea i i think that's one of the things i like about star trek  
and is is the  
even in for kids watching some of it can be a little violent sometimes and stuff  
i don't let my little ones watch it  
but the imagination of look what we can do you know in the future this is perhaps this will be possible   that kind of thing  
okay  
well i think we've covered most of my favorite t v shows  
let's see how about uh man from uncle  
that's mission impossible  
yeah  
they always have  
i've i've seen some of them on repeats  
that uh  
they always had a good plot  
it kind of kept you guessing on on uh what was going to happen next  
how they're going get out of their latest scrape  
oh yeah  
every saturday night  
huh  
um  

i'm not old enough to recall that one  
my t v viewing started sort of mid sixties  
so  
my folks didn't my folks  
i'm not even sure if we had one when i was really little  
that may be why  
they probably didn't have a t v until i got to be you know grade school or so  
and the shows that i like now they wouldn't let me watch  
i had to catch them all on repeats  
like star trek they thought that was much too violent for small children  
so  
i i i ended up watching a lot of these things on you know repeats in the afternoons or something  
yeah  
probably so  
well i think that's about uh that's about covered it for me  
so i think i'll say good bye  
and we'll talk another time perhaps  
i'm calling from garland texas  
uh_huh  
where are you from  
oh my goodness  
i didn't know they did it long distance  
yes  
well it was nice talking to you  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i think i've actually seen a number of star [treks] one way or another over the years uh although i never watched it regularly  
i'm certainly acquainted with the character   the characters  
and then i've seen some of the star trek movies  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't think i i've even heard of that show  
it's called mcgyver  
and what is what is he  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh great  
boeing ought to hire him and give him a junkyard   and see if he could build a seven forty seven out of it  
well uh i used to watch sixty minutes as a matter of fact  
and uh and i used to like the show very much  
but unfortunately i find getting rid of your t v set you do throw out some some of the baby   with the bath water  
and uh i just decided i had to do that i think in part because it was easy for me to become addicted to it  
i mean i could just sit mindlessly in front of a t v set for hours  
and i just realized i was sort of like an alcoholic  
if i didn't get the booze out of the house i was going to drink  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well when my kids were little i did have a t v set  
and i did watch a lot of sesame street and a lot of electric company as well  
well that would be a shame  
huh  
yeah  
how about mister rogers  
is he still around  
i see  
i see  
uh_huh  
right  
i figure your children are preschool  
yeah  
yeah  
i seem to remember those shows being on in the afternoon  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
little with little kids the t v set really is a i mean  
i used it as a [pacifier]  
i'm not sure it was that great for my children  
but they turned out okay  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i'm trying to think if i ever even had a favorite one at one time uh  
i do seem to  
is that the one where they uh he always got this this tape recording that self [destructed]  
uh mission  
that's right  
mission impossible  
yeah  
i used to watch that  
in fact i can still remember a couple of those  
they were  
i thought those were very good  
yeah  
huh  
right  
right  
you  
yeah  
i do remember that  
and uh i remember as a kid my parents watching the ed sullivan show  
that was really the big deal in our household was the ed sullivan show  
yeah  
i i guess it was a saturday night  
and i went to see the movie the doors a couple of days ago  
and they had this scene uh that portraying the doors appearance on the ed sullivan show  
they even had somebody portraying ed sullivan  
and it was very very funny  
i think it was the funniest part of the of that movie  
well i don't know  
was there any  
i remember the [milton] [berle] show even  
i was   i was  
well i guess i have to admit that i am  
i see  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
that's that's interesting  
uh i think it's interesting that parents think that their small children learn violence from tv  
people were just as violent before t v was invented maybe even more so  
but i guess that's that's a different topic  
isn't it  
yeah  
well it was nice talking to you  
tell me tell me where you're calling from  
garland texas  
all right  
i'm in  
i'm in raleigh north carolina  
yeah  
i think they're doing it trying to do it or i hope they're trying to do it all over the country because they need to collect all kinds of different   different [dialects]  
same here  
bye bye  
okay  
so you watch david letterman  
well see our favorite t v show  
i i i live in a dorm  
and our favorite t v show is cheers  
okay  
well we try  
like here they show it like every day  
and then like on thursdays is the night where the new ones come on  
but we watch it like every day  
but i like late night we don't watch uh  
what we do is we stay up till around one thirty  
and then they show the twilight zone at one thirty  
and so we just stay and watch that  
the what  
yeah  
i used i used to live in the house that the guy owned  
yeah  
it was really it was really oh well it was all full with uh shelves everywhere  
and we didn't have enough books to fill it up  
but   but uh so what what do you like why do you like david letterman  
so the  
oh do you watch saturday night live  
what  
he's got what  
hey i got long hair  
wait  
wait  
uh i don't know  
but people  
the other day i went into a bar  
and this guy asked me to dance  
all he saw was my hair  
and he goes do you want to dance  
i turn around and go what  
he goes do you want to dance  
i go no  
no  
he goes oh oh i'm sorry  
i go yeah  
you better be  
i go   you better be  
so   but okay so wait  
do you watch saturday night live yesterday  
yeah  
no  
oh you missed wayne's world  
wayne's world was pretty cool  
so uh let's see  
what else  
uh see like all we do here is like every time we walk in the room we turn on the t v   because we don't want to do anything like study or anything  
so all the all we do is turn  
like like when i was in high school i used to do like my homework in front of the t v set   you know  
what  
yeah  
well i like i i just i just [bogused] on all my homework  
so it really didn't matter  
yeah  
i know  
and i did that all through college  
and it worked  
so uh let's see  
what else  
like the news we don't watch   because they're boring  
yeah  
especially the war  
i mean it was like i haven't i seen this episode before you know  
yeah  
i know  
and and in north  
see the the thing is like here they just they just give you like local news okay  
like a house burned down in this little town  
and were here  
and i go so what happened worldwide you know  
it's like you know even though two hundred and fifty thousand people died somewhere else they're not going to tell you you know  
they're going to spend more time on doing a a thing on a on a cross guard who's a hundred and five years old   than they are on anything else you know  
so but uh let's see  
what else  
oh we watch like for example uh  
okay  
do you watch star trek  
okay  
well i used to hate star trek  
i thought i thought  
like when it like when i was like in high school and junior high school i used to hate it  
but then we started watching it  
and and like the new ones are pretty cool because   because they got like uh like special like especially things that like [fuck] with your mind  
because what happened is like they have this hologram right   where you walk in  
and you can program  
and everything looks real  
and you can touch everything and stuff  
but it's only a program  
and it's really great because sometimes it's like the hologram makes up all these things  
and uh i mean sometimes it sometimes it's funny  
sometimes it's not  
but uh you know   it's something to pass the time   till we do  
and then and then we watch football  
which basketball  
college or  
we got we got two teams of the a c c going there  
we got duke and north carolina  
but i mean the i mean there's nothing to do  
like for example yesterday   uh they go some girl goes do you [dares] want to go to a picnic right  
i hear no  
we're just you know it's like we just woke up  
we had a [hangover] and everything you know  
and so we just woke up  
and uh we're watching t v  
and i go no  
today we're just going to dedicate [ourself] to watching golf   and bowling you know  
and everybody it was like oh god do you guys really watch that  
no  
you know i was  
like a whole golf tournament it's  
like for example baseball  
i hate baseball  
i mean   somebody told me like that like you can watch baseball  
and the actual play time that there is   is five minutes  
because by the play time is   when the person when the pitcher pitches the ball and it goes to the catcher or when the when the pitcher pitches and it's hit  
okay  
and that's like you know five seconds for the whole play  
and that's it  
i mean maybe a home run could last a little bit longer because the guy has to run around all the bases you know  
but i mean it's it's like that  
i mean it's was it's just  
but when i went home that's all like they had on t v  
so i i watched entire games of baseball  
and they're going oh my god  
and t v in [argentina's] really bad  
uh because uh i wanted to go to school here  
yeah  
they have better computer science up here than they than they do down there  
so and i also uh my father works for i b m  
and we came up here  
we well we came to the united states in nineteen seventy six   seventy seven   and uh we lived here for about seven years  
then we moved back  
and so then i said i'm going to move back up there to go to college  
he goes okay  
so he goes but do it fast  
so i did my undergraduate in two years  
yeah  
so but it's a it's just you know  
oh well we've been talking for five minutes  
that's the only obligation we have  
and uh well tell your dad that now he owes you five bucks  
okay  
all right  
nice talking to you  
bye bye  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
that's pretty awesome too  
i watch it every now and then  
that's hilarious  
oh serious  
oh that's cool  
uh_huh  
twilight zone rules man  
twilight zone rules  
that's all  
are you serious  
that's [psychedelic]  
oh he just like totally sarcastic and hilarious  
and i don't know  
i'm a lot like him in a way  
so   and he's got curly hair  
and so do i  
so  
curly hair  
and so do i  
so hey  
cool  
how long is it  
that's hilarious  
no  
it  
with the uh  
who was on the music people  
wasn't that [fishbone]  
yeah  
i saw that  
it was awesome  
but i didn't see the rest of it  
are you serious  
they're awesome  
oh really  
yeah  
that sucks  
really  
uh kind of annoying  
but that's cool  
kind of annoying to like in front of t v like trying to do homework you know  
trying to write an [essay] you start talking about you know like in living color or something  
i don't know  
cool  
yeah  
b s  
that's the way to do it  
cool  
yeah  
works for me  
no  
unless  
i watched through the war you know  
there's only one  
i know  
i guess they think that people don't watch t v  
but i mean if you watch it for like five minutes then it repeats everything over and over and over  
it's like oh man  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
uh i haven't seen it in years  
but i used to  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
oh really  
that's cool  
uh_huh  
are you serious  
oh man  
that's cool  
sound like  
uh yeah  
basketball's cool  
but football kind of after a while  
which basketball  
yeah  
i kind of like college better  
it's more [spirited]  
oh yeah  
cool  
uh_huh  
golf  
[yay]  
oh me too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
that's true  
ooh really  
oh really  
so so why from argentina [why'd] you come over here  
oh that's cool  
how long did you live there  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
huh  
that's cool  
oh really  
awesome  
that's cool  
[groovy]  
yeah  
no doubt  
okay  
yeah  
you too  
bye  
all right  
ladies first  
barney [fife] i guess  
well  
so your a homemaker  
i guess that's the right term nowadays  
yeah  
my wife  
we have a new one in the house  
and she stays home too also  
um i guess i have a wide variety  
i like watching the t v for things that are interesting  
not so much the things that aren't  
for example like the cosby show to me is just kind of like a waste of my time   and different strokes  
but i like sixty minutes   prime time live  
of course i have to watch cartoons on saturday morning but not the ninja turtles  
i like the old [timey] ones   tom and jerry  
there you go  
right  
[johnnie] [quest] the good ones  
um now if i'm ever home during the during the day on a vacation day i have to catch at twelve o'clock the andy griffith show because i usually   because he's just he's one of my [idles]  
and then uh but i don't know  
it seems like nowadays everything is so electronic you know magnified and animated   that you can grab from the old style movies and old style shows a little bit more insight to family [groupings]  
and so uh now i do with the cosby show  
i have seen it a couple of times  
and i do  
i like the show  
i just don't watch it   because of the timing  
but uh some of the crap that's on t v nowadays   it's about  
i do watch the special shows that they come out with the nova stuff and and   the nature shows  
but i think there's enough out there to pick from  
i'm not  
we don't have cable to the point of of the h b o or any of that stuff  
yeah  
but uh  
huh_uh  
sure  
oh me  
oh no  
ouch  
fifteen years  
bet they hated that  
oh goodness  
yeah  
really  
i used to watch uh  
i can recall  
this might age me date me here uh  
i can remember staying home when i was five and six   and my mother watching the edge of night  
secret storm  
well i think they were back to back   and black and white  
i was just a youngster  
and i was like oh my gosh  
still be on  
yeah  
now they got a lot of other crap involved  
and so  
you're right  
i think some of the [tones] of the the daily prime time is questionable  
and that could be uh  
i have to agree with you  
you know keep them on the channel eleven channel twenty one   the nature stuff you know  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
well sounds like you got your hands full there  
and i do appreciate speaking with you  
have you gotten your catalog yet  
yeah  
i just spoke with jim  
i just got my in the mail  
and it inspired me to make more phone calls  
oh really  
yeah  
give them your pen number  
have a good day  
bye bye  
bye bye  
oh no  
well i don't find a lot of time to watch t v  
and a lot of time i find it during the day when when i'm rocking my little girl to sleep  
so i watch a lot of reruns old shows   like dick van [dyke] all those old crazy shows  
yeah  
i really enjoy watching andy griffith  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess so  
yeah  
i am  
i stay home with two kids  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
you sound like my husband  
he likes tom and jerry and uh bugs bunny and all his friends   and all those guys  
yeah  
yeah   yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i find myself watching just a whole lot of whatever is geared for children because   with two kids  
and you know i don't want them watching something that i don't think they should watch  
or   i used to be really hooked on all my children  
and i watched that for like oh ten or fifteen straight years  
and then i had well you know i'd eat  
like at work we'd have a t v or whatever  
and then um as my kids got older and started you know recognizing what was going on i thought this isn't really very good  
so i gave it up  
yeah  
i watched i had watched it since it started  
so  
uh now i i don't know who the characters are  
and um i'll turn it on every once in awhile  
and i don't recognize anybody  
so i guess that's a good sign  
huh_uh  
oh yeah  
well see you're probably about the same age as me because my mom watched the secret storm   and the edge of night  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
we used to  
my mother watched all that stuff too  
and as the world turns i think as the world turns may   still on or not  
it was not too long ago  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
we do  
and it's real interesting too the difference in my kids  
like um my oldest loved sesame street   and those kind of shows  
my younger one doesn't  
she's more into walt disney kind you know  
we watch a lot of movies that we've got on v c on tapes   and stuff  
she's more into the animated stuff where my other daughter liked [puppets] and that kind of thing  
so   but um we do a lot of kid watching  
sure  
it was fun  
no  
i don't think so  
oh well see i don't really  
i've had a few people call me  
but i've never made one  
yeah  
i need to get brave  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what i need to do  
thanks  
okay  
well i can tell you pretty much my two favorite shows  
and they kind of are in different [spectrums] i think um  
one of them is quantum leap  
and the other one is night court  
and i think i think they're real different i mean  
i don't think they have anything in common  
um quantum leap has i mean quantum leap is kind of a comedy in its own way i guess  
but uh mostly it's it's kind of science fiction  
and it's um it's adventure and things like that  
and then night court is just pure you know weird fun you know  
just it's it's nothing serious about it at all  
so i don't know why the two of them happen   to be my two favorite shows  
but they that's the way it is  
so  
uh_huh  
he is  
yeah  
that's right  
i mean  
well they they really have changed him though  
if if you've watched it this season um he's becoming i mean he still is in his own way degrading and everything  
but uh he's involved in that charity  
and uh it's taking up so much of his time and so much of his thought that he really has  
in fact there was one show that he even turned down a date with some you know beautiful woman just because the idea that he was his mind was on the ozone layer   and you know global warming and all this other kind of stuff  
and he you know was too depressed you know to  
so that was part of i guess his character building or whatever  
but  
which of course he needed  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's a good point  
so what do you what do you consider your favorite shows  
okay  
dede  
yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
i can't remember what her name is  
but is  
uh_huh  
well but see i read an article about in t v guide about uh about hunter and about his you know latest you know his three girls whatever you want to call them  
and they say that uh that there was that there was like a conflict between her and him uh that they never really could get her into uh any character that they could use  
i mean you know uh  
yeah  
the second one   the blond  
you know if you think about it they didn't really interact hardly at all  
i mean they were never partners  
yeah  
and and and even even at the beginning dede and and hunter would decide that one of them would go do this while the other one would do would go this  
but uh it seemed like it was almost two different organizations   you know  
like hunter was the boss  
and this other girl was not  
and you know you kind of you're wondering you know well when did this happen  
so yeah  
i i kind of agree with that  
well i'm afraid that's what they they really wanted to do um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well see there was that spark between dede and hunter for a while  
but they they like started it  
and then they'd pull it back  
and they'd start it and pull it back  
and that really made it a very interesting uh show to where you never really knew which which one was going to show up you know whether it was going to where they're going to be real close or whether they're just going to be partners you know  
and that that i kind of thought was good  
but um you know it's i guess you know  
you always kind of sit there  
and you see these two people together  
and you always wonder why they don't you know get together   or whatever  
and so i guess that's what they decide to do  
yeah  
but it's it's always been a formula uh for t v that the minute that two people that the two main stars get married that the show ends up you know dying  
a a good example of this and you know this is  
maybe it's not a good example  
i've been watching [nickelodeon] all last week because they had what they called maximum smart  
they had get smart for uh ten hours a day from seven o'clock at night until six or until five o'clock the next morning   all the get smart episodes you could ever see  
well the the last day all they did was the last season to where the two of them got married  
and that was i mean that was the killer  
the series died right after that   because  
well go ahead  
uh_huh  
same thing  
yeah  
the  
it seems like you can do so much more of the subtle hints and the subtle little plays on things before they they before they get married   you know  
the minute they get married everything's supposed to be cut and dried  
and   and well of course another one of their mistakes i think is they have a tendency to change characters or to change the [characters'] uh uh personalities   well especially after they get married  
um couple of examples would be um well like i said this one about max or get well smart the female character barbara [feldon]  
she had been at the beginning the the intelligent one the the one who always solved the things and and figured out and kept max from getting real messed up  
well in short whenever they got married she got dingy  
you know why would they do that  
it made no sense  
unfortunately that's probably true  
well do you you watch um what is that show who's the boss  
that's uh that's on tuesday nights i think  
yeah  
well i   i hardly ever watch it  
but as as i've seen it they've they've done sort of the same thing to where they've they started to let them get together  
and then they pulled them apart  
and i think they're thinking about that exact thing about the idea that if the show lets them uh get together then you lose part of what the [show's] all about  
so i always thought that was kind of weird  
uh_huh  
um right  
do you think that's why most rock stars nowadays keep their marriages secret or at least they keep it quiet  
i mean  
yeah  
no  
like madonna and sean penn  
now i don't particularly like either one of them  
but um uh their marriage was so highly publicized that there was no way that they could stay together  
or at least that's the way i look at it  
so i don't know  
yeah  
i would think so  
yeah  
it's  
they wouldn't be easy  
so um well that's kind of interesting  
so um well i guess that's about all we need to do isn't it  
yeah  
it has been becky  
i really appreciate it  
well i think i've um  
you're the second female i've talked to  
yeah  
it's kind of nice  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
it's funny that those are my two my husband's two favorite shows too  
and i enjoy both watching both of them  
but i used to didn't like night court  
and i  
and the only reason i think i like it now is because i've seen it so much  
and i'm involved with the characters  
but   i used to think um dan fielding was just too too [vulgar] and too [crude] for me  
and i told my husband that's the whole point  
but  
i i just  
it's  
i find him degrading at times  
i guess that is the point  
but sometimes it just  
oh  
i think it adds a probably adds a little bit of depth to his character  
i haven't watched um  
yeah  
i think so  
which in quantum leap you get  
even though the person is involved in so many other people's lives you still see a a real person in those situations  
he gets um he's doing amazing things  
but he's doing them within the bounds of what a normal person would do  
and i think that's  
i like that  
um i think my favorite show is hunter  
and i i like the old series better when um   dede was in there  
yeah  
and um so uh uh and then the blond that they took out the one that got killed  
yeah  
i didn't enjoy her  
i i  
she was too much of a opposite of dede  
and i think that's what they try to do  
but i think we wanted to see dede there   or somebody like her  
uh_huh  
the second lady  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they didn't  
yeah  
she would go her way  
and   he would do his  
and i think that's what i didn't like  
uh_huh  
right  
and i like the new lady better  
but i'd just as soon that they didn't have the romance there  
i'd just as soon have the the police story without all the romance  
yeah  
i think most shows were doing that  
and then they went away from it  
and now they're starting to go back to it  
and maybe that's what the public wants  
i don't know  
but i just i like the the cut and dry solve the mystery  
and that's what i always enjoyed about it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
just go ahead and   quit the wondering  
and and  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
i didn't   i was going to say i didn't ever watch [moonlighting]  
but i heard that's what killed it  
that uh [interplay] died when they got married  
and so the show died  
uh_huh  
right  
halfway through  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
i i'm guess it's falling back into our traditional stereotype which a lot of shows  
yeah  
which kind of  
like in the big soap opera shows which i don't enjoy because of that  
but  
i've seen it before  
but i don't watch it regularly  
usually tuesday nights i'm out  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's funny how we uh we we [romanticize] people  
like for instance where as the teenager you know you romance a [romanticize] a rock star  
but when he gets married then you don't care any more   or something like that  
and i think it's the same with your characters on t v  
probably  
yeah  
i know it affected me when i was younger  
i'm not into rock stars   too much lately  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it would have been hard  
wouldn't it  
i just the the publicity in and of itself much less the i mean  
when you get married you've got relationship to develop in the first place  
so having twenty million people watch you do that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we've covered our time  
it's been good talking to you  
you're the first man i've talked to  
everyone else has been a female  
so this is a change  
you've had a little bit of variety huh  
okay  
well thanks so much  
bye bye  
yeah  
well i can understand that  
it's that time of the year  
we just my wife and i just recently moved into our house  
so we're   spend a lot of time on the house and out in the yard and things but   um like to keep up to date too  
i guess in the  
since i got out of college which was about five years ago my t v viewing started to tend more towards uh documentary news programs things like that  
something that's going to keep my up to date  
i've kind of kind of gotten away from uh being a series watcher having to keep up to date with uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that makes a big difference  
okay  
i yeah i started too and uh   kind of kind of worked away from that  
i i have a hard time sticking with something   like like on t v because it like it gets real aggravating if you miss it for a week or two  
you feel kind of left out  
but um right  
i believe that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
i know exactly how you feel  
that's right  
i uh when i first moved down here moved into the apartment and got cable and i guess i sort of kind of became [numb]  
nothing surprised me any more seeing it on the t v you know  
and then all of a sudden i started paying paying attention to network t v again once in a while  
right now we don't have cable  
and it's surprising how much it's changed  
the whole moral situation everything is just gone one whole complete direction different  
and we don't have any kids yet  
but i feel the same way  
it's really tough to find something that's   going to be good and interesting for the kids even even cartoons um  
you know you watch some of the cartoons  
and kids   aren't aren't even going to understand half the humor that's in there  
it's  
none of it's probably damaging lot of times  
right  
right  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
well that's true  
uh_huh  
i'm glad you said it  
and i didn't have to  
but that that that's the  
i feel the exact same way  
i sit i sit and watch some shows  
and i'm embarrassed for the people that are even involved in the show  
you know why do you do this to yourself  
yeah  
okay  
right  
now there's an idea  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's pretty good  
i can't handle it very long  
i i mean i'm i'm a sports fan  
but it's well it's kind of it's kind of like reading magazines any more  
if half of the time wasn't spent watching commercials it probably wouldn't be so bad  
but uh it it's  
you're missing an awful lot  
i'd rather personally rather watch see a game on t v than fight the crowds at the stadium  
but uh  
but uh no  
i don't sit down  
i'll sit down for the big games the super bowl and the championship   you know things like that  
but i don't follow any team  
i check the scores the next morning  
and i know how everybody's doing  
and that [suffices] me  
but   i like i like good comedy good humor once in a while  
well   yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it works  
you bet  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
i don't know  
if there's any any series that i pay attention to i try to watch cheers once in a while  
yeah  
it is  
in fact it's i think it's on tonight  
i just got in from outside  
so i  
so i'm kind of out of it  
things like that  
and i consider that fairly intelligent humor   you know  
you can tell  
they pick up the words every once in a while  
yeah  
i try to  
yeah  
yeah  
you know it was it was just automatic too  
no matter where you were you stopped and sat down and watched it  
i think it's come around again  
it's gone through cycles  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
yeah  
that's for sure that is for sure  
well i guess there are a few things around still  
but  
sounds like you pretty much agree  
well  
been uh good talking to you  
okay  
you too  
bye  
well i haven't had too much of a chance to watch t v lately  
so probably everything i going to say is kind of dated  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i think when you're in college you kind of you have more of a regular schedule   in terms of you can watch every week  
so yeah  
i i used to  
when my kids were real little and i was home i watched  
where i was home where i watched things on a more regular basis  
but right now the last things i watched regularly was thirty something when it first came out  
did you all ever watch that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
i know  
but i tell you what um  
we're really strict with our kids about television  
and one night couple weeks ago it was just happened that we were exhausted  
and they wanted to watch  
and we said okay well we'll sit down  
and we'll you know look at what you want to see  
let's just turn it on and see what's on  
we could not find anything that had any kind of redeeming value in it  
so you know it was prime time  
it was what seven thirty eight o'clock on a week night  
and we have cable  
and there wasn't anything on any channel  
and the stuff that was on the prime the networks you know a b c n b c c b s was  
it was just um dribble  
you know i mean it wasn't even funny  
it wasn't creative  
it it was the worst i've seen  
i mean i have not watched prime time week night t v i guess in a real long time   because i was shocked  
you know what i'm saying  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
yeah  
right  
it's just it's just uh like a necessary evil  
i mean when we when our children were younger when they were like four years old three years old five years old we just had sesame street  
and that was about it you know  
but now in order to seem you know humane and normal we do allow them to watch cartoons and stuff  
but it's just one of those things you know  
you have to shut your eyes or not listen or something because those drive you crazy if you're if you're in the room  
so   but it's such a shame because it could be so good  
i don't understand why first of all the public puts up with it   second of all why the networks think that you know we enjoy that kind of stuff  
it's hard to believe that nobody can be any more creative than that  
that can't be the problem  
it must be the marketing pressures  
and you know their demographic studies that they do that show you know that everybody's i q has dropped dramatically or something  
i know  
why do you do this  
i know  
i'm trying to think if there's anything i do  
you like uh i like stuff that's on great performances  
and i we used to watch mystery quite a bit   and things like that  
stuff i guess that mostly public on public t v  
as a matter of fact you know when i was a kid excuse me my parents used to have  
we had this rule in our house for every hour of regular t v that we watched we had to watch an hour of public t v  
that was just the rule  
and if they saw us watching the something  
they'd say all right what did you see on what's new  
or there was some other  
the children's program i think at the time was called what's new  
so we had to give a little [oral] report before we could watch our program  
do you do you watch sports on t v  
are you a sports fan  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
the traffic  
uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i enjoy that  
but what do you where do you   do you get that  
you don't have cable now  
i was going to say they have a comedy channel now  
but again you're in a situation where you're watching mostly uh commercials  
and then   you're you know trying to pass the time to wait until the next comedian comes up  
you know what i did  
there was a time there where i could tape things  
and then i'd fast forward through the   commercials  
saved a lot of time that way  
but that takes too much planning  
now that yeah is that still real good  
it used to be real good  
but  
is it  
oh  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
isn't it such a long running program  
yeah  
they do have a good they do have good writers for that  
oh that makes me think  
do you watch saturday night live at all  
yeah  
we try to stay up too  
it's getting harder and harder  
ten years ago wasn't so hard to stay up  
yeah  
it was  
we stopped watching for a couple of years in the middle there  
but we started watching again  
but it's real different show than it was when it started  
it's funny now  
and it's better  
but it's real different   than what it used to be  
but you can't be so can't be outrageous  
you know if you keep that same format  
there's only so long that you can be outrageous  
so  
yeah  
but you have to hunt hard for them  
yeah  
i guess so  
well  
yeah  
good talking to you  
take care  
bye  
yeah  
so uh what are your favorite t v shows  
oh i haven't watched that very much  
is that  
do you like that  
when was that on  
on a b c  
oh oh yeah  
well um um it may be that um it was recently replaced by actually by um by what may be my favorite t v show of because sort of uh um twin peaks  
yeah  
so twin peaks um what happened was i think twin peaks um went went off they moved to a saturday night for a while and then put and then put something i guess gabriel's fire on it and at thursday nights  
and then they moved um  
no  
gabriel's fire was on c b s i think  
i i take that back  
i'm not sure  
but anyway they moved it back and forth  
and that's when peaks was back in that time slot as well  
so i don't know  
no  
i have no idea  
i don't think i don't think that was on a b c anyway i don't know what happened to it though  
um it's hard to say  
i'm sort of a very big twin peaks fan  
and beyond that i just sort of watch anything that happens to be on  
i'm i'm half the time i'm a t v [addict]  
and the other half the time i just ignore it  
it's really bad  
yeah  
there's some new shows that i sort of like um  
have you seen this [shannon] field show  
or uh it's about a lawyer it's one of these lawyer shows you know  
they seem to be popular these days  
and there's a lot of those [blair] shows floating around  
yeah  
i just like i just finished watching that a few minutes ago  
um and it  
and that that's a interesting one  
i i i like that because there's there are  
i've noticed that every every major station now has their own law show  
there's l a law  
and there's um equal justice some other one law and order or something  
lots of lots of these things that are floating around now they seem to be popular shows  
do you like the law shows  
or  
that that makes logic  
also saves a lot of time with commercials  
oh i have  
i've i've i watched that late um  
i guess it's on late saturday nights or something  
that's entering the day as well  
have you have have you seen this often  
oh really  
yeah  
really  
i don't know that  
i  
that don't  
it it it seems like  
i mean if wrestling is prime time professional wrestling it seems like it's just just just like pros in a wrestling to me  
i don't i don't see any difference though  
i i don't understand it  
they consider it violent  
i have so ever  
i have seen it on where we are  
i live in uh rochester new york  
and i think a  
yes  
where are you  
you're uh  
everybody i speak to is in texas oh oh  
yeah  
but i'm i'm in new york  
and uh we seem we seem to have um  
i think the american [gladiators] is on sunday afternoons actually around here as well   sometimes  
i think it's been on  
i think i've seen it during the day  
i know i've seen it during the day in florida when i was at my parents down there  
definitely seen it on on during the day down there  
and i don't think it's a very violent show  
i think it's funny  
i think it's a real good concept  
i think it's something completely new  
well   yeah  
i think so  
i think because people sort of get through you know um i think that people sort of learn the importance of sort of physical fitness as well as the as well as you know some mental fitness  
and i think that people sort of learn good [sportsmanship] and so forth  
well don't they take people who have some sort of um big abilities like  
and and at least they used to when it when it  
the first ones i saw they had um a man on who was uh he played college football and almost went pro  
and they had a a woman who was a black belt in karate  
and she was the uh she was in the junior olympics or something  
or they seem to have people who have very very big sports backgrounds  
to have  
they leaned away from that sort of  
oh that's how they do it  
really  
yeah  
okay  
i just thought they had some  
yeah  
i thought they had some sort of  
i mean i thought they were just poor people like us i guess not  
that's great  
but maybe i'll try it one day  
i'll get on there one day and see if i can uh um  
what what do they win  
they they win money i think don't they  
really  
wow  
all that for getting tennis balls shot at you at a hundred miles an hour  
one little ball here and there  
yeah  
and this guy's beating you up  
so i don't know the beating up part  
i i actually feel the tennis balls would hurt  
they look like  
yeah  
they seem like a tennis ball  
but it almost doesn't look like it's almost livable  
yeah  
the best  
i i don't think i could i i could handle those tennis balls  
so what else to you tape besides american at  
there anything else  
huh  
okay  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
but i'm sure that's fun  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
well they seem to be on later  
all  
always right right before the news is when i catch them  
i i tend to if nothing else is in the town television at eleven o'clock just to watch the news and or or nightline or something just sort of get a good you know a good a good think for the day  
yes  
when is yours on  
oh gosh  
well i'm sorry i interrupted um  
yeah  
ours is on  
actually it  
ours is on at eleven  
it it's um eleven o'clock now here or eleven twenty five now here in new york  
um i think they they do that  
i think they put things on at um eleven o'clock here  
and i think they put it like eleven o'clock um california time like in california  
but in the middle they sort of um  
like central time or mountain time they they push things back  
so i was actually actually  
i'm not sure  
i was in i was in iowa awhile ago and noticed that everything was an hour earlier  
so does your prime time start at seven o'clock  
wait  
no  
no  
not not even the news  
but do they have like um  
do like sort of all the regular sitcoms and so forth start at seven o'clock  
you  
so like you know the regular television shows that are that are very popular do they start at   seven or or at eight  
right  
because that would the eight o'clock here  
yeah  
that that would all start at at um that would all start at at eight o'clock here  
that wouldn't start at seven  
we have um  
at seven o'clock we just have um  
the  
they'll play you know they have old reruns of cheers or something from seven to seven thirty and then something else from seven thirty to eight  
but then at at eight o'clock is when everything starts   which is which is strange i mean because yours start at seven and end to ten  
and ours start at at at at eight and end at eleven  
that's why we  
i i would actually like it better if everything started at seven and ended at ten  
oh that's great  
oh all the time  
do you watch cheers  
or   there's there's  
it's at  
that was actually a big dilemma for me now because um cheers cheers and twin peaks are now on the same time  
one that i can't find anymore which is gabriel's fire  
yes  
it was usually on um thursday nights  
i don't know  
it was same time period  
yes  
you don't know what happened to gabriel's fire then  
i don't remember one from one station to another  
i keep forgetting one station  
what's your second favorite  
oh is he the reformed um [gambler]  
yes  
yes  
yes  
i really don't watch that much t v  
what i do is i tape the programs i want to watch  
and then on the nights i can watch i'll pick out something  
but um  
you're not kidding  
do you ever watch american [gladiators]  
midnight  
midnight  
i tape it  
yeah  
i tape it because i don't stay up that late to watch it  
i tape it  
but i understand uh that in england they play it at normal times because they don't consider that violent  
and the reason they have it on here so late is because they consider it a violent program  
and i'm like i don't believe this  
i don't either  
you're in new york  
oh  
i'm in dallas texas  
oh really  
oh  
i think it's great  
i love watching a [microbiologist] fighting off with a policemen or something else  
and competition  
i'm going oh great you know  
it's a it's a great role model for everybody  
oh yes  
i mean when i had uh  
i was watching it the first time i ever saw a [microbiologist] on there i thought well it just goes to prove it has nothing to do with your physical capabilities  
and uh there she was terrific  
she was really terrific  
they hold competitions in los angeles in um florida and minneapolis um  
trying to think of  
i think it's in four places around the united states  
they hold competition  
and the only requirement is of course your skill of passing these tests  
and that's it  
and we had a bar man from here in dallas area that made it  
there is a woman that uh made  
well she called herself a craft person  
so i'm not quite sure what she made  
and uh she made it  
i mean there is no  
your occupation has nothing to do with it  
strictly your skill  
huh_uh  
i think the last i heard was it's up to about a hundred fifty thousand dollars  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's you know just minor  
just minor little ball here or there you know  
oh well they   they come out with a lot of [bruises] too  
hey  
see i tape murder she wrote  
i like mysteries  
i like mysteries  
i tape um father [dowling]   because that's another mystery  
and i don't have to concentrate too hard on them  
um most of the lawyer programs like uh law and order   they're not on the times that i've got that i've watched because i haven't had t got t v guide around here in ages  
yeah  
your news is on at eleven  
ten  
i was just in the middle of watching it  
oh that's okay  
no problem  
no  
well they have it at six  
and they have it at nine  
and they have one at ten  
i'm trying to think  
both  
um let's see they start um  
evening shade at seven  
and then it goes to um  
what is it after evening um  
that's major dad at eight i think it is  
huh  
yeah  
it's it's stopped around here at ten  
and it goes into night programs at that point which could be one of you know many different night programs  
but it goes into night programs  
but uh do you ever watch cheers  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
what are your favorite programs  
oh how funny  
i've seen the sign that goes to there  
i've  
well i think i've seen it in the distance  
but i have not even seen it  
and i have not seen the program  
so  
and and uh i know when we went to london it was really funny  
uh people recognized dallas texas by the the texas uh the the cowboys   and by that program  
and that's that's the two things they associate with dallas texas  
so  
i  
and i  
they asked me uh  
several times several times they ask me why are there two bridges  
and i didn't know what they were talking about  
it took me a long time they're talking about the [viaducts]  
is that  
that is right isn't it  
because they ask me why are there two bridges going into dallas  
darned if i know  
i was blank looking you know  
i felt really dumb  
well there's water in the trinity  
i thought it was to going to oak cliff over the trinity  
oh do they  
uh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
i think that is just a hoot  
that's one of those few that i do watch when the television is on  
my husband likes to watch t v  
it's on  
i usually read and watch t v  
and usually i can handle both at the same time you know   because i am pretty sure where the t v [plot's] going  
but that's one of the few that i just actually watch  
because   it's funny  
i really enjoy that one  
now we watch a lot of those  
uh and the ones that sometimes will hook me to put down my book will be the one there was one uh recently about the gettysburg address  
and they wrapped a [fictional] story around it  
and i thought that was well done  
and and it it caught my attention  
i wound up watching the whole thing  
uh i guess the awards [ceremonies] and there seems to be [dozens] of them per year  
maybe i've spent two minutes watching to see what they on and if they make a fool of themselves or not  
but they could take that whole collection  
and it would disappear  
and i'd never miss it for a minute   especially the beauty [pageants]  
i i particularly take issue with those  
i i really dislike those  
you know my husband used to just be [riveted] to the dallas cowboys  
and now we're out running around  
and if they're if they're playing he'll turn it on while we're in the car to see what the score is  
and he'll listen  
but even i've said hey look you're fascinated with this you sit and listen to the cowboys  
let me run in here  
and i'll do some things  
and i'll come back  
and you don't have to miss he'll say na na na  
and he doesn't he doesn't watch it  
he like i say  
if it's convenient he'll listen to it  
but he just doesn't watch them on t v like he used to  
uh  
oh those people  
yeah  
oh how neat  
well i actually got to go see them win in the super bowl when they went down to new orleans  
and i i i make the trip and did the whole new orleans before the game and the game and everything  
and   uh that was that was a lot of fun  
but i don't know i haven't been as  
i'll tell you what i love to watch and this is not this is rarely on television  
but what is a lot of fun to go attend is this arena football  
yeah  
i like it so much better than straight football  
it it doesn't  
it has a lot of different rules  
the field is half the size  
and there's no  
they can't call time and things like that  
it moves a lot faster  
uh again i think it may be on cable more than anything else  
we   don't have cable  
well  
oh  
they're everywhere they're   on every corner  
everything you've ever wanted to see  
well and i like to rent tapes because you can put the thing on hold if you get a telephone call or something like that  
or it becomes snack time for various reasons  
you can put you know  
the only thing this dance with wolves i want to see it in a theater  
because i understand that that your you'll lose fifty percent of it if you don't  
that's what i hear too  
well my husband smokes  
he's one of the dinosaurs that still smokes  
and you can't smoke in movie theaters  
and that has really slowed down the forward progress of going to movies  
but i haven't really cared up until this point  
but i  
we are this weekend going to go see dance with wolves  
it's  
that's it  
we will do it  
so  
yeah  
finally  
well i tend  
my job tends to be very demanding  
and to sit down and to mindlessly either read or just mindlessly stare in absolute comfort isn't as bad as it used to  
uh it's kind of hard to put my finger on a on a favorite t v program  
however uh one that i've been watching for a number of years is dallas  
and uh   and uh it's going to be going off the air uh let's see a week from a week from tonight  
it's going to be its last show  
so i've i've kind of enjoyed watching over the years  
i've been disappointed in it and also pleased in it  
and uh i was uh greatly disappointed uh when i did move down to plano to uh find out that the uh the uh great south fork ranch was really only a one bedroom house  
uh_huh  
oh well   that's a shame  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's it's uh  
when you look at the uh you know route seventy five coming down there i mean it's actually a bridge  
but it's a bridge over top of [roadway]  
there's no water there i mean uh  
yeah  
well there's there uh  
well they  
i think when they open the show up they give you two different views of dallas  
one from the east and one from the west  
and that's why  
but it kind of [confuses] people  
but uh uh i enjoy uh uh a lot of different comedies  
um i think it's mainly for an escape um you know you uh my job is not the most [thrilling] in the world  
and uh i enjoy laughing and uh some of the shows that uh are on the air some are just purely you know brain [drainers]  
and then there's other ones that uh deal with uh in a funny manner uh socially relevant things  
and uh one show that comes to mind is like designing women uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
it uh it has been very entertaining  
and and also uh the the issues they deal with uh really tends to open open your eyes as well as your mind to some of the problems  
and uh i've i've really enjoyed that one since it came on  
um i don't like the politics surrounding the program though  
but i mean other than that you know there seems to be a little in fighting going on between the [producers] and one of the actresses  
but uh  
and then uh i've kind of gotten hooked on p b s stuff uh public uh t v  
uh i like things like nova and uh some of the the special programs they come up with on nature and stuff  
i just enjoy watching that stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i'm one of those rare guys who i i rarely ever sit down and watch a whole sporting event um if ever watch one  
uh there's just not that much i'm i'm interested in  
um for a while i i i watched some football  
but i've just got too many more important things in my life now than to sit around and and watch a baseball game  
uh_huh  
well i think it was great when they were you know like world [champs] and they were doing real well  
i uh i  
personally i i came from the washington area  
and so   i was a big washington redskins fan  
and uh when i came down to dallas it was uh you know i found myself rooting for the home team  
i uh  
in fact i have a uh a baseball hat that was signed by tony [dorsett] and [hershel] walker   the only year they played together on the dallas cowboys  
oh wow  
huh   yeah  
huh  
no  
i haven't seen that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh gee i'll have to try to catch that sometime  
it's  
yeah  
that's probably true  
yeah  
we don't either  
i uh i couldn't rationalize paying you know  
it's like if i pay for a movie channel then i have watch what movies they want me to watch when they want me to watch them  
and if i you know if i didn't use cable for anything else other than the basic well i can get that for free  
and well i really don't need c n n i see enough bad news all the time  
i don't need to see more of it  
so i i've kind of uh [rationalized] that it's it's probably a lot more economical for us to just go rent the movies we want to see  
and of course when we were living in texas it was real convenient with tom thumb  
you know having movies uh back then it was ninety nine cents  
i mean go  
yeah  
um you can see them a lot sooner than you can see them on any of the stations like h b o or cinemax  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
i do too  
yeah  
and i uh i've been trying to get my wife to go with me to go see it  
she she doesn't like going to movie theaters because usually they're dirty  
and uh you know she just doesn't like them  
and um she doesn't think that she could sit still for three hours and watch the movie  
and i've told her you know everybody i know that has seen it has said that the three hours go really quick  
and uh so i'm i'm hoping i can get her talked into it soon  
um  
um  
that's great  
yeah  
but as as far as uh regular t v shows i mean i've got some some shows that that that i would be afraid to admit to you that i've actually sat down and watched  
and then there's there's others that uh uh i wish i had time to see  
it's like i enjoy watching cheers  
it's very funny  
some of the things in it are [mindless]  
but i i just don't have time to watch it  
um i think about the only night that i really sit in front of the t v set all night long probably is on monday night  
because um i work so hard over the weekend doing other things with the kids and stuff and going to work on monday  
monday night i'm just worn out  
so i kind of use it as the time to catch up on correspondence and and look over things  
and i can sit in front of the t v set and look at you know do go through my mail and and watch t v at the same time  
uh_huh  

yeah  
i've been sitting here [alternately] reading and watching television  
you were he was waiting for what again  
that's what this was  
yeah  
well let me go a head and push one  
okay  
okay  
well basically i like comedy shows   uh murphy brown uh designing women  
yeah  
what do you like  
oh okay  
that's okay  
we'll been married eleven years  
and um we went through that after about five years of marriage  
my old t v that i had from college when we got married finally went out  
and we went we made it almost about eighteen months without a television  
yeah  
but then all of a sudden when you get one you realize um gee   i needed that you know  
and then you get to remote control the stereo [phonic]   whatever all of those things  
oh yeah  
and then you never use the v c r  
and now we have two of them  
and now it's like we're just glad we never went out and bought a compact disk player cause we wouldn't use it  
yeah  
i mean it's cause your never home you know  
you're working  
you're at school  
well i don't know t v shows  
what can i tell you um  
basically junk that's on television  
that's my opinion  
yeah  
um i like things like i just mentioned  
have you ever seen murphy brown or anything like that  
you don't think so  
oh that's the one with [candice] [bergen] in it um  
yeah  
that would do it  
right  
nobody does yeah then  
uh_huh  
i know  
and the uh  
well i don't  
you're probably at least ten years younger then i am  
but i could tell you in school that uh the only thing that ever saw in the dorm was uh the one soap opera all my children  
and until then i never paid attention to soap operas  
and to this day twenty years later i'm like i'm in my thirties  
i'm not that old  
but i'm going jeez i can't believe that thing's still on television  
yeah  
they you know  
about the only other kinds of things i like um  
i like to watch a lot of news um  
don't you miss that with not having a television so far  
how long has it been since you've had one  
oh my god  
yeah  
you've got about another six months  
and then you'll get one  
by then  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
my husband is an only child too  
and he did miss it  
that's kind of why we got back after eighteen months  
and i'm trying to think about the only other show i watch  
yeah  
i like cosby  
l a law is probably  
i've seen cheers  
more then that i hate to admit  
but uh  
cheers  
yeah  
i thought it was good  
i've actually been to that bar in boston  
it's a nice you know it's a pretty funny show  
yeah  
it's just a you know over priced downtown   boston yuppie you know   tourist attraction  
i'm trying to think what else is on television  
i know it's like  
yeah  
who didn't  
isn't that sad  
uh_huh  
oh not no   i like the pro actually i like pro basket ball as opposed to  
i watch pro football  
but i like the n b a play offs   back when like the [pistons] were in them  
and now  
where are you calling from  
sherman texas oh  
i'm in dallas  
i was just saying where am i calling you from you know  
well then i don't know if you like the the mavericks or not  
they haven't been that good this year  
um we're supposed to talk about television  
let's see  
you don't have a t v  
yeah  
i'm talking to you from dallas  
uh_huh  
my voice you mean  
oh no  
that's just because i've moved around  
and uh   i'm originally from pennsylvania  
so  
uh actually i'm a big chicago [bears'] fan  
real big  
and uh um i always watch them no matter who's on  
of course you like them too right  
do you  
oh okay  
yeah  
there you go  
and then   and um i'm trying to think what else i like to watch on television sports wise  
i like   i like tennis  
so i mean i'm not i haven't played in years  
but um i just like to watch you know   two players really get go at it  
it gets boring after a while  
but i don't  
go ahead  
oprah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
on the   on the tracks  
yeah  
is  
maybe cause she got [chubby] again or something  
was she was her show big when you where in school since you haven't been out that long  
was her show big when you where in college since you   haven't been that long  
was it  
yeah  
i saw reruns of it  
i saw tapes of her  
yeah  
gee i know  
isn't that terrible  
i know  
i guess with that money who cares  
i don't know  
let's see what else is on television  
oh if you don't have a v c r we just got one after nine years don't even spend your money on it  
yeah  
cause you know if you like movies like we do you do it once in awhile  
and then you know you see it when it first comes out if you really want to see it  
and then it usually comes on television within two years   you know  
yeah  
really that's television  
i don't know  
in general on this project we're suppose to talk about  
so i mean  
that's okay  
don't  
i mean i i always  
yeah  
oh that's okay  
i had one lady one time  
they called in  
i just signed up  
my husband had been on this project um  
and i i she called in  
and it was all about we don't have children and it was all about um sending your kids to college   and why you would advise them  
and she was from boston  
and she i shouldn't talk about this but she was pretend she was a television show  
and she was very [snooty]  
and uh her kids were going to places like amherst and b u  
and i said i didn't know what that was  
i she went oh  
and i thought um  
so i know  
i mean it's like don't worry about it  
television at least you know everybody's   at least seen television during the war did you laugh when they had that man on  
uh what was his name wolf [blitzer]  
that guy that was a reporter for c n n  
his name is wolf [blitzer]  
did you see it him when he was doing the coverage of the gulf  
uh no  
that was the other guy from c b s  
oh   what was his name uh  
i can't remember his name  
yeah  
but just  
they made jokes about him like on the carson show and all of that  
jay [leno]  
uh_huh  
yeah  
he's funny  
yeah  
saturday night live has changed a lot if you haven't seen it in about a year  
i mean i haven't seen it in a couple of months  
but  
uh yeah  
actually i think it has  
i mean they finally like  
and some of those people  
they really have funny characters on there  
yeah  
they have one character on there  
they just call it pat  
and they you don't know if it's a man or a woman  
and they say well they're trying to [deduce] what he or she is  
so to see if it's a female they say well do you carry a purse  
and pat says no  
i carry a [fanny] pack  
so you still don't know because a [fanny] pack is man  
or now days you know  
yeah  
it's weird  
yeah  
it's yeah it is pretty funny  
i mean they do some crazy things  
yeah  
wayne's world hey man  
and what's that other one where they where they do the um [skits]  
well you've must have seen it recently  
you probably have some friends that have television  
i said you probably have some friends that have television  
you know i mean you're not totally out of the loop  
i mean yeah  
yeah  
i mean you really you can do without one  
but after awhile it will start um you know  
i mean you just kind of all of sudden  
cause you're going well jeez  
you hear about something that somebody else talked about  
and you just end up doing it  
but if you haven't been married that long you know   you're doing other things  
is that on tape  
there you go  
yeah  
oh my  
what else is on  
i don't know  
what did they watch in college when you where in  
where did you go to school  
oh that's a good school  
yeah  
i know about that  
they don't have a southern accent up there though  
you must be native texan  
well your from indiana yeah  
oh real southern  
yeah  
uh_huh  
deep one you have a deep one  
yeah  
it is um  
at purdue  
i'm trying to think i went to high school in chicago i'm trying to think what purdue kids watch  
uh_huh  
okay  
do you know that i've never i think other then accept on a commercial or on news coverage or something   like entertainment tonight i've never seen m t v  
that's kind of what i've heard  
i mean that's  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
we don't  
and i wouldn't even i mean i don't even have cable  
i don't think it's worth ten to thirty bucks a month to pay   somebody uh to you know give me a hundred and fifty um   channel access to something i'm never going to  
i mean my neighbor her husband sits in front of the television all of time  
and they've only been married five years have a cute one year old kids  
i swear to god he works from eight  
where you on the phone a long time  
yeah  
to  
he called in to get somebody on the line  
it took him about half an hour to find somebody  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well   we don't have a t v  
i mean we have two t v  
but neither one of them work  
so for the last year  
i mean we just got married  
and we decided well for the first year we we won't get a t v  
so i mean i'm totally out of it as far   as t v goes  
really  
yeah  
v c r and everything else  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't think so  
well see another thing was i worked on second shift for like a year and a half  
so   i would never see any shows any way  
and then before that i was in college for four years  
and i never watched t v then because i didn't have time  
i mean i did watch t v  
it was soaps and m t v cause the girls i lived with never changed the channels  
yeah  
me too  
i know  
i mean i i almost got hooked on it cause everybody would took about it at dinner and everything else  
it you know it was like  
um  
well about almost a year  
yeah  
well   i mean i never really watched it much growing up  
but i thought you know my husband would really like miss it because he he was an only child  
and he he's seen a lot of t v  
and i figured oh no  
it will never last  
but   i mean i don't miss it that much  
that's funny  
i've seen cheers probably five times  
and i've seen cosby show probably ten times  
it's pretty cool  
i like that whenever i watch it  
oh you have  
yeah  
i've heard it's pretty cool  
yeah  
yeah  
i watched a lot of t v when the war was on  
and then uh i like watching a lot of like college basketball and   and pro football  
i mean that sounds kind of stupid  
but   i do like it  
yeah  
uh sherman texas  
where are you from  
so are you really from texas though  
well sounds like you're from up north  
yeah  
oh  
i was going to say  
cause i wondered if you really you know if had any teams you like watching from up north or something  
yeah  
yeah  
well i'm from indiana  
yeah  
so i like the bears  
i watch uh-huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i used to watch oprah a lot in the afternoons   before i went to work and stuff  
and i see her every once in awhile like if i go workout at t i  
you know they have those t v right   in front of the [treadmills]  
i don't know  
she's not as good as she use to be  
but  
her [disposition's] gone downhill  
was what  
oh yeah  
it's pretty cool  
i mean back then  
and the show did you see the show where she lost all of that fat  
she she [wheeled] it out on a cart  
that was so cool  
and then man she's really [porked] out again i guess  
but  
yeah  
i'd eat too  
really  
yeah  
we got   we've got the dollar [cinema] in sherman  
so we usually see like first rate movies   right away  
yeah  
i'm sorry  
well it's hard to talk about something  
it's like me talking about taxes or something  
i feel bad cause i mean   i should know something about t v shows  
what was that  
uh_huh  
um i might of  
i forget  
was he the guy that got captured  
oh  
yeah  
but what about this wolf guy  
oh  
you know what my absolutely favorite show is  
david letterman  
i love that guy  
and saturday night live  
i use to watch that  
like i'd come home from second shift and watch him like for an hour and a half  
he's great  
huh_uh  
has it gotten better  
really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's funny  
like when wayne's world  
i love that  
well i don't know  
i've seen it off and on i think  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's where i've seen it  
because i've seen it off and on probably  
yeah  
we we bug our we you know  
one friend of ours got rid of his because we motivated him because we you know cause we were getting along out ours  
so he sold his  
but the rest of our friends we go and watch them  
uh_huh  
is that on tape  
that's funny  
oh purdue  
yeah  
no  
why  
do i   do i have a southern accent  
are you serious  
i've been here three years  
oh wow  
that's scary  
we watch uh m t v twenty four hours a day  
and then every now and then they'd days they taped days you know   and watch it like four or five times a day  
that's the girls i lived with  
and you know other then that i'm sure they watched  
yeah  
you aren't missing anything  
it's pretty bad  
especially if you have kids  
don't let them watch it  
no  

well do you watch much t v  
your kids  
how many kids do you have  
oh goodness  
i have got two  
that is about all i want  
yeah  
they do  
they are still babies  
oh well we have only get two channels  
we do not have cable  
but i am not crazy about t v much  
it just  
well it kind of is an idiot box  
now sesame street is a good program   because uh  
i do have that on videotape  
and i will let him watch that every once in a while  
and he has learned to count to twenty from that  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
right  
right  
but they also have a lot easier time disciplining their kids than real people do  
yeah  
oh i love quantum leap  
um yes   that is a good show  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
he always got to change history is what it is  
usually yeah  
that it is so good  
i was glad when they put that back on this channel   because like i said we only get two channels because we do not get cable  
and still my little boy he watches [videotapes]  
he won't um  
this is terrible  
i do not like him sitting in front of the t v all day  
well   it  
but it is a not really a good baby sitter  
it is really not  
he needs to get outside and play  
and he is four years old  
and he just does not like to go out there by himself  
and i will let him watch the t v when i am wanting to get my house work done  
but other than that i do not like him glued to the t v all the time  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
well we made the  
right  
we made the mistake of getting [robocop]  
and that is one of the worst oh  
i do not let him watch it anymore because   the the pieces like especially where they kill somebody it is just not good  
i mean it is just real violent  
i mean  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you would see somebody get shot  
they would just fall down  
yeah  
so graphic  
today it is it is really graphic  
they try to make   it too realistic  
and  
yeah  
now he is watching honey i [shrunk] the kids right now  
it is it is cute  
and that  
little roger rabbit on before that  
that is cute  
and they have got the he man uh   masters of the universe the   movie  
that is a real cute show  
he man  
yeah  
good versus evil  
huh  
oh well it sounds like we have the same tapes for our kids anyway  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
they do have like those parental control things on the uh remote controls you know where you can block out what channels you do not want them to watch  
uh_huh  
well my my uh stepfather and them have my stepfather my father in law and them have that  
and uh they do not have any kids  
but they was told how to use that  
but still when the kids get older they learn how to break through that parental control  
huh  
i think [alls] you have to do is push a couple buttons  
so it is it is i am hoping that he will grow up not really caring much for those movies because now we have got a lot of western tapes  
[josey] wells now he loves to watch [josey] wells  
yeah  
clint [eastwood]  
and like the man from snowy river we have oh  
my husband likes westerns  
and he also likes star trek  
now star trek is good movies good shows  
the uh series  
we have got a lot of those  
uh_huh  
the next generation  
yeah  
my little boy is crazy about captain kirk  
and my little girl has mister [spock's] ears  
i told my husband he [cursed] my kids  
they were both born with [pointy] ears  
not real [pointy]  
my little boy grew out of it  
no  
kirk douglas  
oh michael landon  
oh now there  
yeah  
like highway to heaven  
here are some cookies kyle  
yeah  
i liked highway to heaven  
and i and i thought that was kind of neat though  
but i loved little house on the prairie especially when [melissa] [gilbert] grew up  
she was   kind of like my [idol]   when i was growing up because i am twenty seven  
so it is you know  
she is about the same age as i am  
i wanted to be just like her because she is so cute  
yeah  
and  
well  
i liked it  
but there  
that is about the only uh show i have seen where every time they sit down at the table they pray   before they eat  
and i thought that was real neat   because there is not a lot of shows that do that  
and uh they have this little cartoon that is on sunday mornings with   jot  
i remember him in school  
but i do not  
it is just this little dot with arms and feet and little eyes  
and his parents are there  
they have it like before one of the church things   uh you know church that comes on  
and it is a just this little dot  
and he will go out and get himself into trouble and come home  
and the parents will tell him that there is a [verse] in the bible that will help him with that  
and   it is just  
well it is  
usually we go to church on sundays  
but we will miss every once in a while  
and i will let kyle watch that  
and he just  
well i even like jot  
i mean i  
it is funny  
it is on channel  
well let us see  
you are in plano  
uh it is twelve or ten down here  
oh well this is of the mornings  
uh around nine or ten i think  
it is before one of the i think it is before the first baptist in sherman [airs]  
i think that is the one that it   uh comes on before  
it is real cute  
you know what  
he is bouncing around  
and his name is jot  
and then he has got a friend named cat  
and i think the dog is the only one that is not a a dot  
but it is real cute  
and like i say they they teach him stuff from the bible  
and i think it is just a real cute show  
i am trying to get my little boy into reading uh like church books and things  
we have got like [noah's] ark and oh lord is my  
we have got about eight or twelve books for him just little bible stories  
and  
he is he is getting to where he likes them  
we got him a little jesus doll uh about a year ago  
and he has always kept that  
he likes it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so it's a   a christian songs  
oh that sounds fun  
that's something  
well  
yeah  
well i watch in the evening with my kids  
i have four children  
well  
yeah  
it keeps you busy doesn't it  
uh my children like to watch sesame street  
i watch with them every once in a while  
but that is not my favorite programs  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it can be very   educational  
there are shows that i like  
uh i like good family shows   uh though  
uh i let my kids watch things like little house on the prairie  
and the cosby show is uh is uh kind of unrealistic as a family unless you live in upper class and have money  
i think that sometimes the things they show on there though uh  
the problems that their kids get into are are good to uh show that they do have problems anyway  
uh  
yeah  
i mean like i said real life is not that easy  
and uh i watch a show that i like for entertainment  
uh it is called the quantum leap  
i watch that show every time  
and uh  
i i like uh how the how he has to help with the people that he that he becomes   uh because it is not a show that he just becomes these people and then he lives there for a while and then he is gone  
he has to do something positive to help them  
so i  
yeah  
yeah  
it  
me too  
me too  
uh_huh  
no  
that is not terrible  
i do not think that is terrible at all  
well  
uh_huh  
well i do not think it is it is healthy all the time either  
uh and my kids like to to go play with their friends  
and so i guess i do not mind too much when they do watch a little bit  
now i  
there are shows  
i do not have cable either  
and there are shows that i really put my foot down on  
if there starts to be a lot of violence   i do not go for that  
i will not let them watch that  
if   there is a lot of language or  
uh_huh  
well it you know  
today i watched  
and it is like they show bloody   you know things  
and they show it in slow motion  
and   and everything like that  
and before in a western or something in the in the [olden] days  
yeah  
and they were gone  
and and it was not uh   not like today uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
too much realism i think   sometimes  
i don't  
oh that is a fun show  
oh i really   like that one  
uh_huh  
the cartoon or the  
oh uh_huh  
that has good moral values too  
uh_huh  
well uh i think uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
at least we have the same   ideas  
yeah  
language too  

language and violence and sexual you know   things  
i i get kind of uh saying i am sorry kids this is  
and i i think it is important that i see what they are watching  
if  
you mean in cable  
oh i do not know because i do not have that  
but  
uh_huh  
oh do they  
they are too smart  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think that is a good show too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i think not even the old one but the new one too  
i like   both of those  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
oh well  
oh that is not a problem anyway  
but it is fun to you know seeing the show anyway  
uh now i like uh everything oh  
no  
not michael douglas um oh  
i can't think of his name  
no  
the the man right now who is having uh who has done uh [bonanza] and then he did little house on the prairie  
michael landon  
there you go michael   landon  
i have always liked   and thought he did good shows  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i  
and i liked that show because it it portrayed i thought really well uh pioneer kind of days   you know  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now what is that  
uh_huh  
oh i have   not seen that  
uh_huh  
what channel is it on  
uh_huh  
well i will look and and see  
yeah  
we go to church on sunday  
about one o'clock is when our meetings start  
and uh  
it is in the morning  
okay  

well we'll look  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i really like  
now we get channel fifty five although we do not have cable   we do get channel fifty five  
and that is a uh  
like a a song  
they sing songs on there  
but they're uh [worship] through music kind of things  
but they are up to date uh  
and some of them are like uh videos   like music videos that go along with the songs about church and jesus  
and   and i  
yeah  
the  
it's called the christian music station or something like that  
and uh i really like that  
uh i turn that on on sunday mornings  
and i do not you know  
and so my kids do not uh have an  
well i know that uh  
i have only like two or three favorite television shows  
i think one of my favorite then is from the guy stephen is it [brochco] who does like l a law  
uh_huh  
and uh he also did [hillstreet] blues  
i like those type of shows  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
me too  
i know  
they uh i think they're different than a lot of other shows of which they have like the reruns in the middle of the season  
and then towards the end when everybody else is showing reruns they start showing some of their newer stuff  
so i thought that was really interesting the way that they did that  
oh and so you must watch a lot of uh disney or cartoons then  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's true  
that's true  
well i noticed that my kids are uh older now  
they're   uh getting close to the teenage years  
but they did  
we watched all of mister rogers and everything  
but even some of your uh cartoons can be very violent  
and you know they talk about death  
and we were watching uh-oh gosh bugs bunny just last night  
and um i think it was on i have to remember which channel  
but anyway uh we were watching that  
and it was talking about opera  
and they showed like what they thought an opera would be  
and one of the things was to kill the rabbit kill the rabbit  
and i thought oh how violent you know to kill the rabbit  
so he ended up killing the rabbit in the end uh  
but then of course the rabbit comes back to life and says well see this is how an opera is supposed to be  
and i thought gee whiz if a little kid was watching this you know that would be pretty violent even for a small child  
uh_huh  
right  
that's right  
that's right  
well i don't think cartoons portray that  
but like  
yeah  
yeah  
a cat has nine lives  
but they don't  
they just have one like we do  
oh so that's really funny  
but uh   we've gotten  
uh_huh  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
that's true  
that's a good show  
i used to watch uh dallas  
i don't i don't know where you're at   dallas  
yeah  
i used to watch dallas years ago  
and somewhere in the middle i got uh bored  
and uh so i in fact i didn't even watch the finale  
uh you know that's about how disinterested i had become  
uh_huh  
well  
uh_huh  
yep  
yep  
i know  
i know  
was it actually based on a book  
oh but you were just talking about  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
right  
that's true  
that's true  
stay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you know and if you notice on dallas they lost all the women  
yes  
so the men mainly stayed  
but the women were the ones who left  
and i thought that was very interesting and wondered kind of wondered about that  
uh well anyway that's a whole new issue  
oh goodness  
so anyway i don't know if our five minutes are over yet  
but we uh we also have the paid uh television channels  
uh the only thing i don't like about it especially with teenagers is that all the violence the sex the nudity and the curse words   you know  
and so i know they didn't pick up these curse words from me  
so uh they had to have picked them up from uh the t v  
one nice thing though about the cable company we use they have uh they have that little parental uh uh key  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so i i have that at home  
and i keep the keys with me  
and that's about the only way that i can that i can do it  
because their natural curiosity you know to go towards that way and want  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
well and here lately it hasn't been that cool anyway with the humidity being so high  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
talk with you later  
good bye  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we really enjoy that too  
uh i don't get a lot to watch a whole lot of t v  
we have a couple of young children  
and so   we're usually outside  
and so it's usually the nine o'clock shows that if we get them in bed we usually watch that  
and l a law is one of my favorites  
yeah  
yeah  
well we have on sesame street and mister rogers that kind of stuff  
and i think those programs are really good for children  
i know that both of mine have probably learned quite a bit from there  
it's kind of nice to know that they're just going to be seeing you know not a lot of violence and that kind of stuff  
and they usually uh show a lot of things that really teach them different things about the world  
so  
my older son he's going to be five  
and he's more into watching the cartoons and that kind of stuff now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
oh  
well yeah  
and you know they especially boys i mean they're always talking about shooting and killing and all that kind of stuff  
and i don't think that they really realize that death is forever you know  
and showing them something like that really doesn't   teach them that it is  
no  
and to get them to feel like that that's just pretend i think   is the hardest part you know  
yeah  

i was just going to say i know that at least before our kids were born we used to always enjoy watching the cosby show  
thursday nights usually had pretty good with that and as far as very good comedy  
i like to watch designing women if the kids   are in bed by then  
we're we're in dallas  
yes  
well i did watch it just to see what it was  
and it wasn't really that great  
so  
i think   after a while they just kind of you know there's no new stuff they can do  
they've done everything dirty in the book   you know  
so  
well no  
i imagine  
everything you could think of you know   had a hard time  
and i think maybe with dallas as far as they lost a lot of characters that had been around at the first  
where  
i don't know  
i never watched knots landing  
but i think they've had a lot of their characters stay around  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
where you can lock up   the channel or whatever  
yeah  
yeah  
and i don't know the way the generations are growing up now  
i mean i just think they watch so much more t v  
i try to limit what they watch  
they aren't sitting in the house watching t v all day   because i think it's good for them to have physical activity and that kind of stuff too  
and especially in the summer time we aren't in the house very much in the evenings  
it's the only cool time to be outside  
well true  
well it was nice talking to you too  
okay  
good bye  
okay  
what are your favorite things to watch  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we do not watch a lot of t v  
we try to watch it on thursday nights  
we usually watch l a law  
i like that real well   and cheers  
we like to watch that  
uh we sort of got hooked on la law  
uh do you ever watch that  
yeah  
and i i have watched [thirtysomething] some in the last couple seasons  
i was sort of sorry to see it go   too  
yeah  
yeah  
i thought a lot of the  
like the problems that michael and hope had in their marriage and stuff i can relate to some of those things  
just the dynamics of it and everything  
oh really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you are too tired   to do anything  
oh it's better to spend time with your kids i think though than glued in front of the t v anyway  
probably more worthwhile  
i just don't i don't think there's as many good things to watch as there used to be really  
right  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have seen parts of that before  
it is interesting  
do you watch sports much on t v  
yeah  
yeah  
it's slow  
yeah  
we are like that  
and occasionally we will like on if we do not have anything to do or kind of bored and we just want to sit in the house or something   we will watch a little bit of a golf tournament  
but uh   you can not take a whole lot of that either  
it's pretty slow  
yeah  
do you  
we went to the movies a lot on weekends and watch them at home because there's just   on friday and saturday nights there's nothing good on  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you have cable t v  
we do not either  
i thought we were the only ones   who did not have it  
uh_huh  
gosh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well we had it for awhile  
and it just seemed like we never watched it  
any we did not have the movie channels  
we just had all the normal ones   that come  
and we just never watched any of them  
we kept a log for a month of every time we watched it  
and it seemed like we did not watch even half an hour  
so we decided to just cancel it  
it does improve the reception a little bit though  
that's the only thing  
yeah  
well i can not uh think of too much else to say   since we are not big watchers  
well it was nice talking to you  
bye  
oh uh let's see  
i uh i have enjoyed uh [thirtysomething]   in the past uh now that it has gone off  
uh some comedy shows uh i can not can not think of off hand  
but what what are your  
what is  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh yeah  
yeah  
we we we try to catch that most most nights  
yeah  
it it was kind of interesting uh some people complained about uh uh the kind of whining or whatever on it  
i i really did not think it it was   that way  
i think it had some some good uh good situations that it presented  
yeah  
well i think i think a lot of people you know kind of felt that way  
but they had a lot of uh uh counseling groups that use some of the episodes as   as examples of things that were going on  
and and uh you know that they called interaction between people and sort of to use as uh as a way of getting people to talk about their problems  
and that sort of thing  
uh we kind of  
uh our t v viewing has uh slowed down a little bit since our our daughter came along  
so uh  
that that tends to uh put a [cramp] in your viewing because by the time you get through getting her ready for bed and everything uh it's uh very little t v time left  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
no  
i i can not uh  
i don't think there were uh  
i have not i have not uh uh there are not as many good shows that i that i continuously like to watch as much as i used to  
i uh you know  
i uh i used to could be able to name ten shows or so you know that i felt were worth my time to watch  
but uh i uh you know very seldom like to watch you know those  
there's a couple now that i tend to want to watch  
i like uh home improvement shows like bob [vela's] uh home again on saturday morning  
it's i notice it's like it's like this old house  
yeah  
but it's uh it's on  
instead of being on p b s it's on regular t v  
but it's uh it's kind of interesting because they [renovate] an old house  
and  
yeah  
so i like to watch that  
and uh some some things on p b s i like to watch  
but uh  
yeah  
if it's if it's a team or something that i am really interested in i am not one to just watch a football game just just to be watching it  
or   or i am not a big basketball or baseball fan if it unless it's baseball if it's some if it's a team i really like i may watch  
but uh baseball to me is a little hard to watch on t v   for an extended period  
yeah  
it's so slow that you just get bored you know  
i i will switch between something else and and a baseball game going back and forth you know watching it  
but i usually  
if if if it's a football team i really like a college team or or pro team that i am fond of i usually will sit and watch that  
but uh that's the  
yeah  
yeah  
it's kind of like   like baseball  
right  
i think that that's what more people are doing  
and i think that's you know  
as as t v  
i think the less good shows being on t v has caused a lot of people to do to do that uh you know get more movies and watch  
i know we we have done that too in the past uh  
we do not do it quite as much now cause our baby will not let us watch them  
but uh you know we usually will we used to rent uh two or three movies on a weekend and and try to watch  
no uh  
we live in  
no  
no  
we uh  
the uh development we moved into was  
they have it on one like right across the street from us  
but when they built our section they did not did not put it in  
and we have been there about two years now  
and they are still still do not have it  
so   i am hoping that that soon they will they will  
i have contacted them about this  
and they say that well it's it's  
they look  
they every year they look at uh different areas and try to determine where where uh the most houses will be  
and so they uh they look  
and they when they when we reach a certain number of people in that area they will put one in put   some in or they will at   least consider it  
so  
yeah  
um yeah  
yeah  
i have i put some put in some uh an antenna a really good antenna  
and uh it's really helped you know ours  
and it's not been too bad  
i have not really missed it that much  
there's certain things that i have that i want to see you know occasionally like a football game a college game or something that happens to be on cable or some old movie  
but the uh  
i i have not been bothered by it too much  
so  
right  
okay  
alright  
bye  
okay  
so  
i do a little bit more than i think usual people do because i am here alone during the day  
and i like it just for the noise  
um  
um  
it just depends on what it is  
i mean i have my favorite things that i do  
and then some fun thing to do sometime  
um what about you  
right  
well see that's great  
yeah  
well  
right  
well i think that well part i think that's partially true too  
i think you have to have the will and the  
and uh anyway i think it  
you are you would be susceptible to stuff  
and it has to be reinforced at another level too  
but   anyway what would you watch if you had you know this week to watch  
do you like specials  
oh  
oh  
oh right  
yeah  
well we have cable also  
and sometimes you can um get the h b o specials  
and sometimes those are really   pretty hysterical  
so i i like to watch comedy  
i mean  
and that's something  
but   i am not   real up to date on what's going on now  
i i guess i have my old favorites  
but i am   hooked on you know like  
bob newhart is still on  
i watch him  
and uh you know something on that level  
i i also enjoy uh  
i do not know  
sunday mornings it's channel thirteen  
i watch a lot   of thirteen uh the [mclaughlin] group  
and i   i just laugh  
i mean i think that's so hysterical   these guys  
it's just so much fun  
it's just it's just a lot of fun   watching that  
i mean i do not agree with a whole lot of the stuff the they say  
but it's fun   you know  
so yeah  
i like to be entertained  
i really do  
oh now that was fabulous  
and that you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
so  
you know well there's certain  
i mean  
i have got um my t v in the kitchen here  
and   uh you know if there's something like cooking shows  
i love to watch cooking shows  
i i really do  
i know  
i i  
yeah  
and and there's some um  
in fact one of the water color shows i know has inspired me to take water color lessons you know  
so   you know   things like that you get   a whole lot of exposure  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
she got you a  
yeah  
oh well see that's  
but she was probably depressed to begin with  
you know what i mean  
yeah  
[grumpy] to begin with  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i hate that show  
yeah  
i i  
good  
is not that amazing  
how old are your kids  
oh okay  
so that's  
yeah  
i had forgotten about that  
see it's just my husband and i  
and   so i do not have that you know i that constant influence   of the kids shows and all that  
but uh um i don't know  
yeah  
right  
right  
and and you know we get it at school too  
anyway so you might as well not   [reinforce] it   you know  
i know i remember going to  
my parents were a lot like too  
and of course   we did not have any of the variety you know  
kids have   but all the watch [rawhide] and all those shows  
and my parents never let me watch anything like that  
i could watch [yogi] bear you know  
what kind of culture was that  
and i remember going to school the next day  
and everybody would be asking oh did you see that   did you see how he did that  
and did you see  
and i could never participate  
and it always made me feel a little bit you know a [loner]  
like i you know  
but uh  
but see then my parents  
i think then you have to replace it with other things   you know  
to uh  
really  
yeah  
that's true  
or you go rent a video up at   the store and come home and sit down and watch it  
well that's you know that's something people do not do  
well here we are talking on that subject  
but that's that's an interesting concept  
i have got to stick in my uh  
you know work with kids  
but uh  
first how much television watching do you do  
uh_huh  
that's right  
but do you actually watch it   pay attention to it  
or is it more of a company  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
right  
well actually i work full time  
and when i am not working i am running  
and i do not watch a lot of television  
and i am very selective in what i watch  
if there's something that i absolutely want to watch i will turn it on and watch it and then turn it off  
i probably watch television four hours a week max  
and and uh  
if if i do not find something that i really want or really want to watch well then i just do not turn it on  
i would rather listen to music  
part of it is that uh i think we need to be very selective about the kinds of things that come to us on a subliminal basis  
and i think that if we are doing other things and these programs come in sometimes they influence us  
and we do not know where that influence came from  
yeah  
uh right  
right  
right  
of course i uh  
that's  
right   i uh  
well last night for example i really would have liked to have watched [unsolved] mysteries  
those are fascinating to me  
if i have the opportunity i watch it  
unfortunately i was with someone else who was flipping channels  
i hate that  
i do not care a whole lot for some of the contemporary humor  
in our comedy programs although  
nobody can appreciate comedy any more than i can  
but i would prefer to find a good comedian on one of the educational channels or one of the older [comedians]  
uh_huh  
that's right   and some of those are fine programs  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i enjoy comedy  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i enjoy that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well  
yeah  
i watch it for entertainment  
but i also watch it for uh cultural impact  
i do a lot of channel thirteen channel three some of the educational channels  
and i watch for special programs that have special a special play a special concert uh  
i recently watched a [tribute] to three of the finest opera stars  
uh and it was fabulous  
i was just absolutely  
you just held you breath   in some of those  
and uh  
oh i was just  
it makes [chills] all   over you  
so  
i i may or may not even look at the t v guide  
but if i have time i may flip through and say hey this looks good if i finish this task i can watch that in an hour  
uh if the hour comes and i do not get a chance to watch it so what  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i do too  
it makes me want to cook  
and then i eat  
and then i get fat  
so i just let other people watch  
then i eat what they cook  
oh i think that's   marvelous  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i took a lot of my   college courses  
i took some of my   college courses on television  
so that  
it's very successful for some of   those things  
but i think i really got stung very badly about having influence in your life  
or at least i saw a very bad example of having television influence your life uh  
my husband had an aunt who was addicted to soaps  
and i want you to know that became the most suspicious [cantankerous] contrary old woman ever walked  
absolutely  
i do not know who she thought she was  
but she just got to the point where you could might near you could almost hear those soaps being [echoed] in her voice   and that attitude being demonstrated  
and for her to miss a soap it was a big [withdrawal]  
and  
well i do not know  
well she was [grumpy] to begin with  
there's no doubt about that  
but uh but you could clearly see those influences   and in my youngsters  
i know that one day uh my youngsters were watching the three [stooges]  
and i always thought that was just casual slap stick   comedy  
but when one tries to lift the other one up with a pipe wrench i decided that was not funny   any more  
and i really   i really feel very strong about the bart [simpson] show  
i think that is  
the kids watch that  
and that's absolutely the [mouthiest] kid i ever saw  
and i just i do not like it  
mine are grown  
but i have grandchildren   and young children around  
and uh for a four year old to think bart [simpson] is a hero is tragic  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i was very careful even when my kids were   kids were at home  
and when they were young i was really did uh watch what they watched  
i was  
i sat down with them  
and i watched it  
and if i did not like it i changed the channel for them you know  
i you know i distracted them changed their interest   because i just could not tolerate that kind of influence on the [kiddos]  
i just  
sure  
that's right  
that's right  
gosh  
they got they are [mouthy] enough anyway  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
i can   understand how that would happen  
absolutely  
well i did  
i ran my kids to death  
i said hey i think that's enough television for awhile  
maybe we need to go outside  
and we need to go out and play and enjoy some company  
so i would go out with them  
now see there's the problem parents do not do that  
they   say you go outside and play  
yeah  
i said  
but   but we went on field trips  
and we did other things  
and i think that was  
of course  
okay  
i'm back on  
um you say you watch evenings mostly  
uh_huh  
oh so  
do you have any that you like well enough that you tape them when you're not going to be there  
which ones  
oh  
oh two they're going to change  
well one they're taking   off  
i don't know what's going to  
yeah  
we like l a law  
we don't watch thirty something  
but that's kind of young for us  
my husband and i are grandparents  
so we don't watch uh that type of show  
but we like l a law  
we like   that  
we're just  
i'm sorry they're breaking the team up because we liked all the ones that were on there  
i'm not sure i like the new ones too much  
i just wonder if if uh they just want to go on to other projects and not be stuck in this show since it's gone on for so long  
it looks like   it looks like it might be one of these seven or eight year run things   where you kind of can spend your whole career on one show  
of course i guess that's not bad  
alan [alda] did it on mash  
it hasn't hurt him at all  
so do you do you mostly like this type of like a story type of thing that lasts an hour  
in one hour like quantum leap  
that's one of our favorites  
right  
which they do at the beginning of the season   to grab your attention   you know  
that's always a bummer too  
sometimes it's better just to tape record both of them and then watch it all in one  
we we do that sometimes  
i i guess i'm i'm not into real heavy stuff  
l a law is about the [heaviest] thing i watch  
i   i'll mostly i'm into it for relaxation  
so i like things like golden girls or cheers  
or uh monday night is real good with me you know major dad and and uh northern exposure and and uh  
oh what's that one with [burt] reynolds  
that type of show is what we   what uh we watch  
we generally just stay on one channel all for all of monday night just to watch those  
just some of the times they're continued  
but mostly they're just little [vignettes]  
a new one we found we really like is that dinosaurs  
have you seen that  
that is it's it's really funny  
they use like animated  
it's not like a cartoon  
but it's like dummies and things   that are used  
and uh it's really um  
and [robots] probably  
but there's always a a moral to each story  
well we watched it  
the times we've seen it it's been like on or excuse me friday night  
uh but it's  
we've only seen it a couple of times  
but it it's real  
the first one we saw um they were it it involved a tradition of when a person reaches seventy five  
and i can't remember what day they call it  
but but uh the son in laws get to throw the mother in laws when they're seventy five over a cliff  
anyway   anyway it it goes on you know  
and the son in law and mother in law are [sniping] at each other and all  
and then when it comes time for him to throw her over well the the teenaged son the night before tried to save her by hiding her  
and she said no  
you can't do you know  
he ran her out was running to in a wheelchair to hide her  
and she said you can't do that  
this is tradition  
this is what old people are supposed to be thrown over the the cliff  
and uh he said i don't understand  
it's it's real funny that they give the teenagers the as the one that questions uh the what's going on  
and uh in the end of uh the son in law when he did get the mother in law up to the cliff uh the the teenaged son throws himself in the way and says no you can't do it and then and then uh-oh well we've got to do it it's tradition  
and the son was you know why  
and so   in in the end he doesn't throw her over  
and of course the town thinks he's just terrible because that has been tradition for hundreds of years and he's broken it  
and then we saw one where this there was a teenage when a teenage boy comes into his manhood  
they call it the night of the [howling]   or something like that  
and they all go out and howl you know  
and and the son refused to do it  
he he did  
he thought it was not  
no  
he wouldn't go howl  
so all the all the people that worked with the father [ostracized] him  
it is  
it it it's it's real interesting to watch the show  
and and the relationship between the family is is really now   now the mother in law lives in the house with them  
so it's  
our our grandson our oldest grandson is the one that that got us to watching it  
but it really is   it moves real fast  
it's a real short  
and there's always like i say a moral to it  
and  
well half hour  
that that's all there is to it  
and and uh they  
yeah  
it it they they're trying to [liken] the the father in there of the teenage son to like jackie [gleason] show   uh the way he talks to his mother in law and so forth  
and i guess maybe there are some parts of that  
but i didn't really see that in there  
but what i've read about it they talk about that  
but anyway we've we've enjoyed that  
and and uh i guess mostly i i like the news shows too the news magazines like sixty minutes or twenty   twenty or prime time live or something like that you know all all of those shows if i can do it  
but my husband likes to watch um old movies especially war movies or or uh sports which i'm not  
no  
i don't  
well i i do i like ice skating  
and i like uh gymnastics   and some track and field  
but i i  
and i'll watch [snippets] of baseball games  
and i i just don't have that much time to sit and watch the whole thing  
and i don't ever no matter what's on i don't ever just sit and watch t v  
i'm usually either doing dishes  
or i may be sewing  
or you know   i always have or letter writing  
or i may be working around in the room somehow  
but i don't i don't ever just sit and  
i that's something that comes from your old age you know  
[idle] hands are the devil's [workshop]  
no  
it's it's uh  
right  
right  
right  
well our  
yeah  
if our if our grandchildren are with us that's they have to watch that  
we don't watch it unless they're here  
but they uh  
it's it's um oh  
and you know the the kids will get you started on stuff like america's funniest home videos  
we've wound up sending in one  
that's something i didn't think that we'd ever do  
yeah  
my oldest grandson pulling his tooth  
he's he's   he wouldn't let us pull it  
and i mean it it got to the point he was eating a pear here  
and he bit into it  
and it was just hanging by a thread  
and i and i'd tell him you know it's getting ready to fall out  
and he walked around the house with his face down toward the floor and his mouth open hoping it would fall out because he wouldn't let anybody pull it  
and he he wound up pull  
okay  
i watch evenings because i work all day  
i used to watch [daytimes]  
um mainly like all my children that kind of thing  
and then sometimes oprah and sometimes donahue  
but now it's mainly evenings  
yes  
i tape thirty something   and l a law  
those are the two i like the best  
i know  
it's going to be history i know  
uh_huh  
oh well well  
uh_huh  
i know  
i'm amazed  
huh_uh  
i'm surprised that i was surprised at the ending of you know with all the funny things happening and different things  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
i know  
isn't that funny  
oh i don't usually like stuff that continues  
that's why i'm surprised i like those two shows because usually i like you know stuff that just ends sort of that you just you don't have to   have watched you know  
yeah  
i mean you don't have to  
yeah  
you don't have to have watched it last week in order to follow  
so   you know i usually don't like that  
uh_huh  
i know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
and what night is it on  
oh great  
oh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh he doesn't  
uh_huh  
so he didn't go howl  
oh how funny  
huh  
it's just a half hour  
or is it hour  
oh  
there's not many half hour shows  
it seems like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
i watch those if i  
oh see i like sports  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
no  
i don't sit  
i know  
who has time  
i don't have time to sit i know  
that's why i don't get to watch that much  
i mean i   watch nine o'clock  
i do okay because the kids are all in bed  
but before that i really there's not much time  
or like at six thirty i'll watch wheel of fortune or something like that  
uh_huh  
no  
i like that  
no  
i'll watch   game show kind of stuff  
but   yeah  
did you send one  
how funny  

well i almost forgot the topic  
i was waiting so long for uh for it to find somebody um  
right  
well so what is your favorite t v show  
oh you like that one  
uh_huh  
uh i've never really watched that one  
you know it's funny how you can just get in a mode where you only watch certain shows  
and uh you know there's so there's only a few that i that i like to watch routinely  
probably my favorite is um oh  
well i like shows like growing pains  
and uh what's the other one now they moved from tuesday night to wednesday night  
so i don't get to watch it very much  
wonder years  
yeah  
that's my favorite uh  
yeah  
wonder years  
i i guess that is supposed to be put out at a time when i was growing up or whatever  
i guess i can really relate to it  
and uh it's just a real cute show  
uh i i guess i like the shows that really have a real sense of uh i don't know honesty or sort of a [purity] value i guess  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my wife really likes that show  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well there was  
but there's a sense of i guess [purity] in the show  
like one of my favorite shows used to be happy days  
but uh you know [richie] always used to be so you know just so honest and pure   i guess  
and when he left the show you know that it seemed to be missing that part of it  
and i never did like it after that  
so i don't know  
i i say see the same thing in like wonder years and a lot of the shows that i like to watch  
there always seems to be that kind of value in there somewhere  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you're going to watch a game tonight  
so do you do you have a favorite for the series or anything  
oh uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
he's a nice guy  
i take it you live in the dallas area  
do you live in the dallas area  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i live in garland  
and yeah  
i i like steve [bushel]  
but i don't really like the pirates  
i'm a big saint louis cardinals fan  
so uh i'm kind of i'm kind of pulling for the braves over all  
they you know they   they've come from so far down  
i really would like to see them do well  
yeah  
one one year they  
maybe they'll make it i don't know  
so but uh yeah  
i like sports programming quite a bit  
but uh i guess my my favorite shows are the  
and you know that getting back to the point that you made that's really true  
we were watching roseanne i guess couple of weeks ago  
and her daughter was talking about birth control you know  
and my daughter was kind of walking in during that time  
and you know she's only seven years old  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that that seems to be more our values too  
like the wonder years i i mean it's kind of risque stuff for maybe for teenagers  
you know or and you can kind of relate to it   you know  
i don't know  
that's  
i enjoy that a lot  
but uh you know i agree with you  
the  
and it's funny because the shows  
like a lot of them that used to be considered risque like [three's] company and stuff i think they they maintained  
people would watch them because  
there was that uh you know there was really the period that was going on there  
i mean he really wasn't messing around with the girls  
but everybody perceived him that way and stuff  
but as soon as you know he went to move in with another girl the show just died  
and it's it's interesting that a lot of the shows are that way  
it's on your favorite t v shows and why  
uh major dad  
i i love it  
i think it [promotes] good family values  
and it's funny  
that's  
yeah  
what kind do you like to watch  
wonder years  
i like both of those real much also  
i i think basically they same thing they promote family values  
i do too  
i i don't like it uh lot of the shows that that i've liked in the past like uh-oh golden girls  
and some of them tend to get so risque  
and when you   have children   uh watching it that sometimes really starts to bother me  
and uh that's one of the reasons  
i mean if you want to go all time favorite show probably one of them was little house on the prairie  
yeah  
which i just i was i always felt was wonderful  
uh and so many of them nowadays like i said i think are just um  
uh they they go after well  
they  
like i said the risque stuff just i guess they think that's what people want to watch  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i agree  
uh do you like the sports programming  
um i i enjoy those also almost as as much to a certain extent  
i'm  
our whole house is baseball fans  
and uh we enjoy that  
and uh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
uh probably the pirates  
but only because of steve [bushel] i guess  
otherwise i really don't care that much  
but uh you know i'm i'm annoyed that the rangers got rid of him  
and uh i'd like to see him do well like all the way to the bank   i guess  
pardon  
live in live in plano  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
yeah  
it's uh  
so i keep hoping the rangers are going to do  
right  
uh_huh  
well it's  
so many of them now um you know it just seems like they feel like they have to stick that stuff in  
and   and uh you know i'm you know i'm i'm an adult  
and i have adult tastes now  
but i don't need that  
uh i i like things that uh are are wholesome i guess  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what do you like to watch on television  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we have cable  
but we only have cinemax  
and   uh i think our favorite night is uh monday night  
and we start out with evening shade   and major dad  
and   i think that's the one night that we really try to watch television  
you know   my husband's always got it on  
i'm not always sitting down  
and  
yes  
yes  
yes  
i just i love that all those that two hours  
and uh now tonight i just finished up with that a woman called jackie  
did you watch   did you watch it  
yeah  
it it was pretty good  
it uh sometimes i like a [dramatization]  
and i like uh u s a when they had their uh uh mystery movies and things their   made for t v movies  
and uh i like those  
we very seldom watch any uh public television channel thirteen  
do you watch it much  
yes  
yes   it is  
now we haven't watched any of those  
yes  
now we have watched some things on that  
yeah  
we had uh  
i don't know  
my husband loves to uh that male syndrome of [flicking] that channel  
so you know and he's sit in front of it  
and and he went by  
and he said whoops  
and he backed up  
and you know there's this surgery going on as we're eating our dinner   you know  
and i'm saying let's move right on  
but our grandchildren like that discovery channel   if they're over here because lots of times it will have things on uh animals  
and they just thoroughly you know enjoy that  
in fact i think they were watching something on uh [whales] or killer sharks one or the other   couple of weeks ago over here  
and uh so we have watched that  
and uh otherwise of course my husband's into the football  
and you know i will watch that some if i'm reading or doing something else you know   with him  
yes  
yes  
and sometimes now we're getting that uh the other football where they play it inside  
and you know this is a you know this is too much  
saturdays and sunday this is fine  
but do we have to carry this on into the summer and the spring   you know all of that  
and uh but he will uh he'll flip around  
i think the other night we had on uh uh it was a it was car races some kind of car races where they were [bumping] over hills and flying into the air and coming down  
i don't know what channel he found that on  
and uh but he will turn that on especially for if again if our uh oldest grandson is over here  
he's ten  
and uh they'll find something like that and just absolutely sit glued to it i you know  
i keep telling them it's the same mentality you know  
and something's wrong  
and uh but uh and we very seldom watch television on a friday night or saturday night because we're not home  
and uh so and sundays uh we usually have all of our kids are over on sunday  
so you know we don't get into that except that sometimes we'll get into their home videos  
do you ever watch that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that are sometimes so dumb  
but very true to life  
i mean i've seen our family in several of those situations  
well i guess a lot of the uh  
something that's kind of more of a comedy  
we do have uh cable  
and we have premium stations like h b o and [showtime] and such  
and i guess a lot of times when i first turn the t v on i i normally go to those because i pay for them  
i guess i i want to see if there's anything i really want to see there so i don't end up watching the um prime time on some of the standard channels as much i tend to go to my premium channels first  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
monday night's pretty good with murphy brown   and designing women  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we had watched it uh i guess sunday night and monday night  
but we didn't get to watch it tonight  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the only night we tend to watch some of that is on sunday nights starting fairly late like i'm talking ten o'clock and maybe toward midnight  
they have some british comedy   that we've we've really liked  
and there's a variety  
some of them is uh black [adder] or good neighbors or yes prime minister and are you being served  
they they rotate those around  
and um we like that british comedy  
british comedy is very fast  
you really have to   listen  
but  
they're real good  
but they do come on kind of late  
but we really do enjoy those  
sometimes we get to watching some stuff on the discovery channel  
and i'm amazed sometimes what i see on there  
but i'm very intrigued  
i one time i was watching an operation  
and i thought gee   i don't believe i'm watching  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
yeah  
i'm not into watching sports  
now my husband likes to watch football  
he's not really into uh baseball or basketball too much  
but uh football soon as it's fall then he likes   to watch college on saturday and then of course cowboys on sunday  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
oh  
um  
yeah  
the  
you mean talking about the funny home videos and stuff  
yeah  
those are pretty good   but true to life  
i mean some of the  

hello  
hi  
my name is leslie  
and where are you from  
oh nice  
i'm from dallas texas  
yeah  
so  
well did you understand what this was for you know what it was for what we  
yeah  
okay  
i i don't watch too many  
but we can try it  
are you ready to start  
okay  
just a minute  
yeah  
okay  
well i don't really watch too many t v shows other than uh occasionally i'll i'll turn on donahue because it comes on in the morning when i seem to be getting ready around here  
and uh so if if there's no one else around you know it's just me and i have a chance to listen to something i'll turn that on but uh just for the for the conversation factor i think  
but and then i think i enjoy when i catch it i don't even know what night it's on but designing women sometimes  
yeah  
do you  
yeah  
it's fun  
and then there's a new one that started out that i've caught a couple of times called good and evil i think  
oh really  
it is a real different one  
it's uh it's it's different  
i guess i watch it more out of the [uniqueness] of it and the time that it comes on more than the fact that i have to see it  
but  
no  
i haven't watched that  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sounds neat  
yeah  
is that on what what station  
oh okay  
what other shows do you like  
oh yeah  
well she comes on later  
and i usually have kids around so i don't end end up   watching that one is the only problem i have with it i guess  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that can happen  
so do you know of any other shows in the even or something that you enjoy  
oh that's always fun  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think  
i also course like to catch the news during the evening hours  
but uh it's a little tough because that's when i'm usually making dinner and the kids are wanting to talk all at the same time  
so usually i don't get a whole lot of news watching in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so what have you seen interesting on oprah [winfrey] lately  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i don't know if we've talked our full three minutes or not  
oh that's right  
um yeah  
it is interesting  
so  
no  
no  
just uh doing this as a fund raiser for our church  
yeah  
so it kind of makes it easy you know to do a little something for it  
hi  
hi  
i'm jennifer  
pennsylvania  
oh really  
oh that's neat  
uh television shows  
sure  
that sounds good  
okay  
sure am  
okay  
i guess we're recording now  
what are your favorite television shows  
oh really  
oh i love that show  
yes  
that is great  
oh i heard they just canceled that  
i read in today's paper they just canceled that show  
have you seen the show it's it's new this year called home front  
oh it's it's really good  
it's uh i think it's on like tuesday nights from ten to eleven  
and it's set in post world war two times  
and it's about how the servicemen come home and [readjust] to civilian life here and the changes everyone's going through  
it's really interesting  
it's kind of like a a nighttime soap opera type thing  
it is it's a good it's really well written  
uh i don't even know to tell you the truth  
uh i prefer oprah [winfrey]   to donahue  
oh  
i did watch soap operas  
but i work full time now and can't catch those anymore   except when i'm home sick  
and now when i watch them i think why did i ever watch those  
they're stupid  
so when i did watch them i was addicted to them every day  
but not anymore  
oh uh tonight i'm looking forward to seeing golden girls  
yes  
i like that show  
and if i can stay up late enough i like to catch saturday night live every now and then  
and right now we're watching a penn state football game because that's where we live  
so  
it's exciting  
we're winning  
so that's really exciting  
uh_huh  
yes  
we watch c n n in morning while we're getting ready   for the day and eating breakfast  
we'll catch our news that way  
watch the weather channel so that we know what the weather's going to be like  
lately i haven't been catching it because of my work schedule  
uh i can't remember the last time i saw it  
it's been a while  
i don't know  
sometimes they come on and and say  
well today on c n n they were talking about something like this about uh learning to recognize voices and words and stuff and the research that's going on which is kind of what we're doing helping them get a data base for words  
it was really interesting  
do you work for texas instruments  
oh that's nice  
sure  
because we uh we've talked to a lot of people from texas it seems  
and we thought well maybe they work from for dallas  
oh you know i used to like [saintelsewhere]  
that's one of my old favorites  
um and that's  
i'm being beeped  
so i'll just ignore it  
um and now i i did like thirty something  
oh yes  
my daughter says nine oh two one oh  
we like that one  
good  
and how old are you  
oh so you're little bit younger than i am  
but yeah  
i think if my seventeen year old my fourteen year old my other two children like it  
i'm over forty  
and i like it  
i think it's wonderful  
oh yeah  
now see i we are so busy with all of our kids are in sports  
and i hardly ever watch t v  
but that's one that that we watch  
and then sunday nights we watch uh life goes on  
very good  
did you see the one on sunday  
that one kid that [becca] likes   he has aids  
right  
right  
all the way to north carolina  
what time is it there  
oh my gosh  
see i'm twenty minutes to six here  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
what else do you like  
oh i never i never watched that ever in my entire life  
uh_huh  
a small bowl will be plenty  
oh that's mine  
that's the only one i watch whenever i oh  
a small bowl will be better because it's pretty fattening  
talk to my daughter  
um um  
yeah  
i've i'm sure i watched it for more than that probably  
twenty something  
i used to watch general hospital when i was a teenager because i  
oh  
right  
oh that's great  
well i do like all my children  
and i and i like it you know i don't know  
i just  
i like the people on it i guess you know  
yeah  
well [tad's] going to come back i bet do you think  
he'll come back show up at just the right moment  
oh  
yeah  
like daisy pops in once in a while  
and i forgot about nina and cliff right  
oh he is  
so he's out for good  
did they marry  
nina and cliff  
um  
oh okay  
oh see i i i watch it maybe twice a month  
so i don't watch it everyday like i did when i had babies  
because i play lots of tennis  
and i'm gone a lot  
so i don't get to watch  
oh no kidding  
i use to be i used to be like that  
now isn't designing women don't they have a new [chick] on there instead of the instead of what's her name  
huh_uh  
that's a show i like  
oh yeah oh  
well i i just know which one she is  
i don't you know  
[charlene] was delta [burke]  
oh okay  
well see i never watch that one either  
i really don't watch a whole lot of t v just you know on sunday nights  
life goes on comes on about the time that we eat dinner  
and my whole family's home because i don't allow the kids out on sunday night   you know because they've got to go to bed and go to school the next day  
and so we we sit around and eat popcorn  
and oh then we watch america's funniest home videos  
those are always pretty cute  
oh so you don't watch that one   instead of  
sure  
yeah  
we like that real well  
uh_huh  
i know  
the kids already know who it is  
i don't know who it is though  
let me ask nicole  
nicole  
what's your favorite t v show  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's one of my favorites  
i'm twenty eight  
yeah  
it's a good show  
i like murphy brown and designing women too  
yeah  
i like that  
that's that's a good show too  
yes  
it was a uh uh  
i did miss that sunday  
no  
i didn't  
yeah  
it's a good episode  
yeah  
the the new character on there did  
uh it is twenty minutes to nine  
three hours difference  
uh let's see i like a lot of different shows  
let's see um i like murder she wrote  
that's that's  
and matlock is another good one i watch  
um then during [daytimes] i like i like all my children  
all my children  
i've watched that for about twelve years  
i quit watching general hospital when leslie got killed  
so that was a long time ago  
i used to watch it was in high school and college   when [laura's] mother got killed  
she was my favorite character on there  
i just  
i read the reason she got they they killed her off was because they couldn't settle a contract  
and i said well if they're going to do that to her i won't watch it  
i i i like it  
i just wish they'd bring some of the old characters back  
yeah  
i'm sure he will  
i kind of wish that uh nina would come back because she   because the story you know  
just for a brief visit or whatever because it never has been resolved with [palmer] [remarrying] and everything  
yeah  
[cliff's] on the young and the restless now  
yeah  
he's out for good  
uh  
that's how they left the show but not in real life  
now she's married to some guy in new york  
and she's happily married  
and that's the reason she left the show  
i guess she wanted a private life  
oh well i i watch  
i watch it everyday religiously  
i videotape it when i have to miss it  
yeah  
i'm that way about a lot of different shows  
i'm that way about murphy brown designing women  
uh yeah  
there's two new characters on there  
there's um uh jan hooks from saturday night life  
i don't know if you know her or not  
and then and then uh uh the blond headed girl that used to be on newhart  
i don't like her on it  
i never have liked her  
so  
she's taken the [suzanne's] part  
and then jan hooks has taken [charlene's] part  
[charlene] was jean smart the blond headed  
yeah  
well murder she wrote comes on opposite of that  
and so  
yeah  
i   i pick nights pretty much so on t v that i watch different networks  
but   beverly hills nine oh two one oh i i watch it religiously  
it  
be sure to watch it tomorrow night   because somebody's getting killed on it  
who is it  
ask them  
all right  
what is your favorite show  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
it really is  
uh_huh  
i watch just about anything   but not a lot of   t v  
i mean i'll watch you know maybe a little while when i first get home in the evening  
and i usually watch you know the news  
and then i'll watch that hard copy or   or that kind of thing you know  
and i like the nine one one   and [unsolved] mysteries  
uh_huh  
now i do   like  
my husband is really crazy about evening shade that comes on on monday evening  
and i   uh  
uh_huh  
and i've got to where every monday i rush around so i could sit and watch that with him because it's really funny  
uh_huh  
well his favorite night is monday night  
so we've got to where we will sit   and watch it on monday night  
because that and then that uh-oh  
i can't even think of the name of it  
like i say i'm not  
yeah  
and the one with the the sergeant that married the woman with the kids sergeant [mcgillis]  
sergeant uh major dad  
yeah  
that comes on right after uh the evening shade and then murphy brown   and designing women  
so we always he watches that  
and i kind of i watch the first one then kind of sit in on the others   as i can  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you can't hardly watch knots landing with the little kids around though  
except they   probably are in bed   by nine  
did you get your pizza taken care of  
well do you know  
i have picked up a show lately on saturday night that i've really liked  
and that's sisters  
have you watched that  
it's really you know it's really pretty good  
i mean it's kind of like you know um soap opera i guess  
but it's a  
so far it i've watched it about three times now  
and it's really held my attention  
it's been pretty good some   pretty good acting  
now i watched   brooklyn bridge this week for the first time  
but i haven't  
i did  
i liked it  
now i haven't seen i'll fly away yet  
uh_huh  
it's nearly   too late for t v  
that's the way i am  
i get in   from work  
and i'm tired  
and i sit and watch for a few minutes  
so i have to get up and do dinner   and everything  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's us  
if we are home on the weekend we always watch videos  
so  
but there are some good shows on  
i i really probably should watch more of them than i do  
but i like  
i don't know  
i i'm always in to making things  
and   and i don't just spend all my time  
and i my husband now he sits and watches t v constantly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i could be around here for hours by myself and never have it on  
but uh but there are some really good new shows that i have enjoyed  
and i'll have to watch that i'll fly away this week  
yeah  
i never get in in time for any of those  
yeah  
well it's nice talking with you  
bye  
well i was just trying to think  
when they called i didn't have as much time to prepare for this as i did some of the others  
um i love watching some of the uh new new shows basically  
and we uh we subscribe to c n n  
and we took that  
and we started watching a lot of those especially during the war or during anything kind of thing like the earthquake  
and i have gotten stuck on a lot of this  
the new shows and the stuff that comes on that that it you know  
like the uh at night the discussion talk shows and things  
and we really haven't gotten a lot into the sitcoms that are current uh especially with the kids here because we have to kind of filter it before they get here  
we have little ones  
uh we do let them watch nine one one  
and we think that's kind of informative to teach them   how to handle things in situations  
what do you watch  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's the same thing we do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that kind that's the kind i like really more than   the sitcoms  
i haven't gotten   into many of those  
i have heard that's real good  
that's   [burt] reynolds isn't it  
yeah  
i've heard that  
now someone told me that  
and also uh i meant to be trying to pick up on murphy brown   because they said that that was really good this season  
you've got to yeah  
uh_huh  
designing women is on that night   too  
huh i don't even know  
oh okay  
now i   we've never even seen that  
uh_huh  
on the others  
well you know on friday nights especially we like to watch twenty twenty  
or um  
it's kind of a competition on thursdays between prime time and knots landing  
but uh we used to like knots landing a lot  
oh excuse me just a minute  
the money is right there on the thing and the coupon  
oh i know  
that's the thing  
and so   we  
uh_huh  
well they are  
in fact on [weeknights] they are in bed by eight  
but we have just gotten any more that where we just keep it off  
yeah  
he has gone to get it  
thank you  
um but i was to say on saturdays there is absolutely nothing  
and that's the day my husband   wants to  
no  
but i saw that advertised today  
and it sounds like it's not fluff  
it sounds like it's good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what they said it was kind of   a little more drama to it  
well and   and another one now that it's getting darker  
and you are wanting to cocoon more  
that they said is excellent is the i'll fly away and brooklyn bridge  
some of these   that are nostalgic  
did you   like it  
did you  
well they said that one and i'll fly away are really quality you know  
and  
i haven't seen it either  
i think what i need to do is kind of read to see what is on these days because by the time we get the kids in bed at eight o'clock and then i get my bath   it's you know it's almost too late to start   something new  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then we've gotten to where we rent videos for weekend nights  
so it's like   we are kind of   tuned out of our t v  
yeah  
well we do too  
yeah  
i don't know  
yeah  
there's a lot more to do with   with your time when you get into it  
uh_huh  
well my my sister and them and her husband do on weekends  
they don't have children yet  
and they just turn it on when they walk in  
they turn it off when they leave  
so they are used to that too  
yeah  
i understand  
same here  
yeah  
it's real good  
and then of course in the afternoons if i get in from work in time i watch oprah some of those   you know talk shows  
i like her  
yeah  
well it's it's nice talking to you  
i guess we've kind of exhausted this one  
but it's nice talking with you  
thank you  
bye bye  
t v uh  
trying to think  
i was trying to think of some while they were calling you uh  
i like friday  
what is it  
is it friday or saturday night shows  
i think it's friday night  
all the uh the one with the two little girls in it what's it called  
or three little girls  
right  
i really like that  
what's it called  
yeah  
there you go  
yeah  
i really like that show  
oh  
oh really  
uh lately i've been getting into talk shows  
and  
yeah  
just you know controversy   and  
just really whatever  
just as long  
it depends on the subject actually  
where where it's more interesting  
some of them get pretty boring  
but  
is he one of the talk show guys  
[maury] [povich]  
huh let's see  
yeah  
yeah  
see i don't i don't like those  
i like   more controversial subjects i think  
but i mean yeah  
no  
i'm i don't watch t v that much uh anymore  
it seems like uh  
i'm going to school right now  
so  
b y u  
yeah  
so and i'm working too  
so   everything keeps me pretty busy  
but  
oh really  
my dad taught there   for a while  
yeah  
uh speech pathology  
oh wow  
no way  
how long have you been there  
oh okay  
so you wouldn't know him  
he   uh he taught about a year ago  
he used to work at uh uh university of texas at  
what  
no  
uh-oh shoot  
i can't remember what it's even called now  
but uh he worked there for like fifteen years and then part time u t d at night  
and and then they stopped funding the program there   uh  
and so now he's at texas women's university  
yeah  
uh_huh  
allen bird  
uh_huh  
right  
uh somewhat  
and he has he has some like different programs out  
like i don't know what they're called  
but they're like  
and he has like little stuffed animals with them and   like little cards and stuff  
i don't know that  
right  
yeah  
uh i was i am studying nursing  
but i'm thinking about changing right now  
i just i don't know  
and it's really tough to get into the program down here  
so if i don't do that if i decide to stay in nursing i'll probably come and go to t w u  
yeah  
oh really  
my dad used to teach at [collier] too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
i'm at b y u in utah  
yeah  
yeah  
so but i get to come home at on the nineteenth  
and i'm so excited  
i'm so [homesick]  
it's in provo   actually  
but yeah  
i really i really like it out here  
but i've been i i've been away too long  
uh how how  
do you have a do you have any uh major preferences as far as television  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh-oh  
yeah  
the the two twins play the the twins play that one that the youngest girl  
oh yeah  
uh i don't know  
all i can think of is the name of all in the family  
but that's not it  
full house  
yeah  
yeah  
that is good  
i i like uh  
we have cable  
i really like watching the old nick at [nite] shows you know   where you get to watch [dragnet] and mister ed  
and uh we we can watch those all night sometimes if  
donna [reed]  
yeah  
oh yeah  
which   which one does which ones do you like  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh there's that guy  
i think it's out of dallas  
his name is uh-oh  
i wish i could remember his name  
yeah  
he's he's black  
and   yeah  
no  
he's black  
and has a bald head  
and his first name starts with an m  
oh it's like  
his first name's like [marlo] or marlin  
i can't remember his name  
anyway he always has like really strange shows like uh uh male [strippers] or female [strippers] or just   really [sensationalistic] you know like what [geraldo] used to be  
i don't either  
uh_huh  
do you watch cartoons a lot  
no  
oh yeah  
where do you go to school  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm going to u t d here in dallas  
yeah  
oh really  
what did he teach  
oh that's what i'm majoring in  
i'm a graduate student in speech  
yeah  
yeah  
uh this is my first semester  
yeah  
who   who who who what when did he teach  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh is he teaching speech pathology there  
okay  
what's his name  
bird  
b i r d  
yeah  
he published a paper uh couple of years ago i think didn't he well one that i read  
does he publish a little quite a bit  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
he has a test he has a testing yeah  
a testing battery  
he uses real  
yeah  
i i remember  
yeah  
well that's interesting  
uh what are you studying  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i'm living in the t w u dorm across from [collier] uh  
yeah  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's where the speech program is uh  
i'm living in that dorm  
and there all those nursing majors  
i i tell you what  
that's that's a tough that's a tough uh field though  
nursing is  
i i have a lot of respect for those people  
i mean they've spent a lot of hours studying  
so you're at baylor  
oh okay  
brigham young  
i see  
all right  
oh really  
do you like  
it's in salt lake city right  
oh is it  
do you  
uh_huh  
i'm from colorado  
so i i've been away from there too long  
i said arlington texas because the other day i was talking with somebody  
and he was in arlington virginia  
yeah  
that's the only one i've got now for this area  
well anyway we've got a easy subject  
you go ahead first if you'd like  
yeah  
you know   you get so busy  
oh  
i know  
right  
are they little  
yeah  
they're pretty young  
i don't know  
my kids are older  
so i don't i don't know some of those shows now like i used to  
right  
well i i like the comedies  
they're just light too  
i have to watch murphy brown  
i really like  
i make a point of   that  
i love that  
and i really like coach  
i think it's when it's good it's just a scream  
well he's probably playing himself  
half the time you see these people on an interview show they're they act just like they do in their parts  
he  
i saw him on johnny carson once  
and he acted about the same  
yeah  
and uh  
well i watch more now because well i i had been going to school for years and have really been too busy  
but this semester i'm only taking one course  
and so i see murphy brown and coach and the wonder years  
i just make a point of seeing those  
oh it's fabulous  
really you should never miss that  
it they are just [gems] of shows   i mean they really fabulous in every way  
oh that's wednesday at uh seven thirty  
oh yeah  
sure  
yeah  
well maybe maybe your husband could tape it for you sometime  
just so you get the idea  
it wouldn't take   wouldn't take much to get hooked on those  
so so i watch those  
well you know i haven't oh  
yeah  
we started watching northern exposure  
well it's not really new  
but it's still kind of new  
i like it a lot  
it's real different  
in fact they never thought it would be a hit  
i mean they'll have some things in there that almost almost you know like [supernatural] or something  
you know i mean somebody will see a figure from the past that nobody else does  
or i mean it sounds weird  
but it's very uh unique show and very well done  
excellent actors  
i i guess we just  
it came on after something we used to watch  
and i guess we just kept sitting there  
and then now we make a point of watching  
i can't take all these shows on because next semester i'm not going to be able to watch hardly any television  
well then it will be mostly reruns i guess  
and by the end of february the way they do it nowadays  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've seen that  
was she the was she the best one   was she the best one on that old show  
really  
right  
right  
yeah  
they had a big fight on that show didn't they  
they were all [accusing] each other of everything in the world  
well i know  
gosh you never will probably  
well i think the latest soap opera for people is the kennedy trial for those who have cable  
i don't have cable  
it's just as wild as any soap opera from what i hear on the news  
and i think he's guilty as the [devil]  
i know  
what's in it for her  
there's never anything for you to go to trial as a witness in a case like that   because you know they tear you to [shreds] especially those rich   high powered lawyers  
um  
i know  
everybody was saying that  
and then in the paper said it  
so   it should be interesting  
well the national [enquirer] says  
i was reading that in the supermarket line  
i never have the nerve to buy the thing  
uh  
says he  
no  
i don't care anything about that  
i like the ice skating  
you know occasionally some ice skating will come on on a sunday or during the olympics  
i always watch that  
i think it's so beautiful  
oh yeah  
that's good  
oh no  
oh gosh oh gosh  
yes  
we do  
okay  
let me think here  
favorite  
i haven't been watching much t v lately  
i used to  
yeah  
i have uh i have one favorite soap opera  
i still watch  
and i tape because i'm not home  
and uh let's see  
that's general hospital  
and then uh at night uh i don't uh when i sit down i don't usually sit down till almost nine o'clock   when my kids get in bed  
and and uh then i watch  
uh what do i watch at nine o'clock  
let's see  
oh well tuesday nights i guess we try to catch a couple of the shows that the kids like  
and uh  
i have a seven year old and a ten year old  
and uh so we usually catch uh full house  
and uh what's the one comes on after that  
it's a new one uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh other than that uh-oh gosh i watch knots landing on thursday nights   for pure entertainment nothing else  
yeah  
oh now that is a good one  
that is  
yeah  
if i'm home on mondays then i i definitely watch her  
yeah  
yeah  
well he's a good actor  
he really is good  
yeah  
yeah  
oh god  
well he could very well be  
so do you watch much t v  
or  
uh_huh  
now i never see that  
well i've got a friend that says that is just wonderful show  
oh nice  
what now what night is that on now  
wednesday at seven thirty  
oh okay  
yeah  
wednesdays i i go to church choir  
so   that's my one night out and about  
so  
yeah  
i should get him to do that   because i know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
are there any new ones this year that came out that you like  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how's that  
i haven't seen that  
huh  
huh  
i'll have to watch for that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
gosh   well we used to watch a lot of designing women  
but uh   i haven't seen that much lately   since they got rid of uh delta [burke] and uh   brought on the new ones  
oh she was just funny  
she was really funny  
and her character was good  
i don't know that it was her in particular   but just the character  
so uh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that was awful  
and who knows still what really happened you know  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
oh i know  
now i told  
no  
we don't have that station either  
so uh i haven't been able to catch any of that  
but just what little we caught on the news  
oh i know it  
well i don't see how he couldn't be you know  
yeah  
that's right  
oh and they said   this lawyer is unbelievable  
but they said she held up so well yesterday  
yeah  
oh god  
oh shoot  
well do you watch any uh   any sports or anything like that  
or  
because i don't either  
i can't i can't watch it on t v  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i like to catch the gymnastics sometimes too  
okay  
jerry the topic was favorite t v shows and what kind are you interested in and   how they and do they differ from like mine  
right  
oh do you  
yeah  
oh i'm sort of a well  
i'm different from that  
i'm sort of a a movie buff  
i go to a couple of movies a week sometimes  
but honestly i'm i'm self employed  
and a lot of times i will uh go out and take a lunch hour go to lunch from like twelve to two go to a movie and just come back to my office  
but uh i do it  
it's like entertainment  
and i'm pretty much of a a junk movie watcher by myself  
if i take my wife then we see something a little nicer you know  
but uh  
and my kids are all sort of movie watchers  
you know we we've always been to a lot of we've always gone to a lot of movies in our life  
so but i would just as soon uh be doing something else  
it's just that my kids are gone now  
and and my wife's a school teacher  
and sometimes and she doesn't get home until about seven o'clock  
so you know i'll come in like five thirty or six  
and i'll turn on the tube   set there and have my coffee or coke or whatever and a little t v  
and sometimes i set there all evening  
you bet  
you bet  
well that's an interesting channel  
that's great  
you know i've i've just never spent any time watching it  
and you know   i like my sports and everything  
but i  
watch my dallas cowboys  
i watched them to halftime before i left  
and i left at halftime  
and started driving  
they sure did  
they just did an excellent job  
yeah  
the eagles  
yeah  
luck into it now i think  
cowboys they earned it on their own merit  
well  
you bet  
as much as everyone you know used the word love tom landry i'm glad that jimmy johnson's there  
it was  
i think so too  
he wanted to go out a winner though  
i think he would have stayed there four or five more years until he could have gone out  
oh no  
it's you know   he earned his [stripes]  
i know  
oh yeah  
yeah  
he's a he's a winner in anyone's book  
and i hope he's a winner in his own book you know because   that's the key there  
you bet  
little things that [disturb] me  
and i know he's being a little [hardnosed] about it  
but uh you know this ring of honor thing you know he needs to be there   because he's earned it  
he deserves it  
and he was the dallas cowboys  
and   he won't do that yet  
so i hope he makes up his mind to do it because   he needs to be remembered  
no  
no  
no  
absolutely not  
that's true  
but   he needs to be honored  
let's put it that way  
you bet  
i've been here since seventy four  
and i feel like a native  
oh did you  
yeah  
we came we came down from new york state in seventy four and uh never had any [regrets] at all  
you bet  
it's been  
it's a great place to raise our kids  
and i've got my last kid graduating from college this next december  
she's getting married the month before in november  
so  
i will have finished be finished   with that  
right  
well good  
no  
not at all  
well i enjoy my t v programs  
i like those  
i like those detective programs  
i like everything  
i can watch bill cosby because i think he has a great show  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well okay uh  
most of most of the uh commercial television these days i'm just a little bit sick of  
uh in fact i don't watch hardly any uh television at all with uh my other activities  
uh between my family and my church et cetera et cetera well   i don't have time i hardly any time to sit down and watch the news  
now i do watch the discover channel and some on channel thirteen  
but uh aside from   aside from that i pretty well uh turn it off  
uh_huh  
i don't blame you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i well it  
sometimes if if it's real good  
like there's more there's been more than one evening that i've uh caught uh every animal show that evening on uh on the discover channel  
and uh because they're uh they're they're you know they're documentaries and they're  
oh you bet  
in fact i'm glad that it's part of our uh basic cable package  
but uh  
uh_huh  
oh oh me too  
hello  
well they they   they [whooped] up on them  
uh_huh  
and they're in the playoffs  
and i'm not sure that the eagles are not  
i did  
yeah  
that's true  
did you know everybody or not everybody but quite a few of the folks were kind of down on mister johnson  
but uh he's uh he's brought the [pokes] uh from a a one and something team to uh playoffs in what three years now  
uh_huh  
well it's uh you know it was the time for the passing of the guard i mean  
and i think tom knew it  
so uh  
yeah  
that's true  
and i wouldn't i wouldn't have blamed him one bit   because  
yeah  
but see nobody remembers him as a loser   because he's too he's too far he's far too much of a gentleman and a and a practicing christian to uh   to ever be thought of as anything but a you know but a winner  
yeah  
oh he is  
he is  
because he has to like himself   before he can like other people uh  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh he will  
right  
well nobody's going to forget tom landry  
shoot come now  
i mean i'd not a  
you [betcha]  
i'm not a native texan by birth  
but uh i guess if i uh length of length of time i'm in the state now is what after you're here twenty years you're considered native  
well let's see  
i came down march of sixty nine went to work for t and i  
yeah  
so uh i haven't looked back yet either  
so  
right  
especially looking at some of the weather new york state has had  
and then look at the weather we have down here  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh goodness  
well we're   well we're finished with all but the last one and trying to get him through his technical school  
and uh we're uh he's over halfway  
so  
you know we're not staying on the topic of television shows  
but i'm really not too concerned  
are you  
no  
me neither  
i'm enjoying the chat uh  
what are your favorite shows  
uh_huh  
i've never seen that  
huh_uh  
um i like l a law   not because it's realistic but it's entertaining  
um  
let's see  
i watch cheers sometimes   and mostly just movies when there's a good movie on  
actually when there isn't a good movie on too  
i just like to have the t v on if you know if i'm home alone or something  
have  
either the radio or the t v got to be on   the whole time  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i well i don't because i work all day  
but um i  
i usually do if i'm home for a couple of days like you know around christmas or whatever  
after a while i'll start watching it  
and then on  
for a while i'll ask people if they know what happened  
and then i'll just forget it  
uh i don't even remember  
the last time i watched was back in college  
it was like general hospital or something  
and i maybe watched it for a week  
but um i know that people used to arrange their whole schedules around the you know  
they wouldn't take a class that was in the middle of their soap opera  
it was a  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you said you have kids  
how old  
so you're you aren't a sesame street fan  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
supposed to be a great [babysitter]  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
i know  
what time is that on  
i never see it  
oh okay  
i'm not home then  
that's why i don't see it  
isn't it strange how people are fascinated by other people that they think are strange  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what's that  
yeah  
well i guess it wasn't a real good topic for us  
but well tell me  
is it snowing up there  
no  
uh_huh  
wow but do you have snow on the ground now  
oh  
well that's nice  
oh gosh  
we've broken all sorts of records  
they've got  
i mean we still have some highways closed  
and it stopped raining almost twenty four hours ago  
but um oh just phenomenal  
i mean i you know  
you see it on the news all the time  
but until you've really seen it it it doesn't really hit you  
but i was driving home from work friday  
and i saw there were some stop signs i mean [submerged] up to the writing on the stop sign  
and that was just  
it was amazing to me  
so  
oh there's been a lot  
yeah  
it's it's too bad  
but you know the thing is that this happens  
in the last three years it's happened at least once a year if not twice   but the people continue to move back in the flood zones  
so i don't know  
i mean you got to wonder how long they're going to keep doing that for  
i don't think i would  
because they just finished cleaning up from the last flood  
yeah  
yeah  
i do  
yeah  
have you made a lot of calls  
or  
uh_huh  
oh  
do you get paid for these  
five dollars a call  
gosh  
i wish i could do that  
we can't get paid for it  
well i it's doesn't seem like i get enough time to watch much t v  
but   the ones that are out now  
i i've watched that sisters a couple of times  
i think that's kind of a good show  
haven't you  
oh i like that one  
and um i'm trying to think  
i i don't even know if i have any other real regular ones that i watch  
how about you  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i do like that  
yeah  
occasionally i'll see that one  
do you  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
uh-oh i do  
i kind of have gotten into a couple of soaps lately  
i've well i've been home with a um  
i have a baby  
and   and so i've haven't seemed to have gotten out as much  
and   so i'll i'll watch a soap occasionally  
do you watch any of those  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
what what ones do you get into  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
how funny  
oh yeah  
oh i don't get into them that much  
when i'm home sometimes in the day i'll   i'll watch them  
but yeah oh i was really trying to think  
i don't even know if there's any other shows that i watch or else  
oh i have a six year old  
and i have a um  
he'll be a year old in january  
well   they do they watch it  
my six year old's kind of  
he's outgrown that one a little bit  
but   but i've started to turn it on a little bit for the baby  
and he's kind of he's entertained by it  
so yes  
i i do watch that one  
yeah  
well they're not entertained for too long with it  
he's   he's still too little  
but   yeah  
i do turn that on  
and i i do like um donahue  
sometimes i watch that  
i think he has some interesting things on it  
um that's on at let's see it's on at four  
yeah  
i'll watch that occasionally  
he's got some real  
i don't know  
there's some real weird people that   he seems to come up with  
yes  
yeah  
oh yeah  
he does have some real bizarre things i think  
so other than that i don't know  
guess i'm not much of a t v person really  
um no  
it snowed a little bit um probably about four days ago  
and they said we weren't going to get any more for christmas  
yeah  
there is snow on the ground  
i i wish it would snow a little bit more  
i've heard it's raining there  
oh really  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
oh goodness  
oh gee  
so  
so there has been some flooding  
and  
uh_huh  
oh gee  
yeah  
oh boy  
yeah  
oh what a mess  
well now do you work for t i  
oh uh_huh  
huh well this has been an interesting thing to do  
um i've i've probably talked maybe to five people  
my husband is doing it too  
and he's   talked to a few more than me  
and but it's been real interesting and kind of fun  
um five dollars  
uh_huh  
uh don't you have to do it as part of its  
don't you have to do it  
okay uh  
some of the t v shows i like to watch are uh mostly evening evening shows  
and uh like for instance the one i'm looking forward to to tonight is twenty twenty  
i usually watch those prime time programs  
uh i like to watch forty eight hours  
never miss that and uh sometimes prime time live  
uh and then the week goes by  
and i don't think i ever watch anything else  
you know the the sunday night movies i watch those kind of things but uh most but basically a lot of documentary things and you know what's going on and that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's hard to follow  
oh i've never seen that one  
okay  
yeah  
i've seen a uh the previews for that  
uh_huh  
oh we never miss that  
or we try not to miss that  
oh we think it is   so funny  
oh just part of it  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
oh that's right  
and the neighbor  
they thought it was the neighbor  
yeah  
and then uh it it's it appeared that maybe it probably wasn't the neighbor  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've never seen that program  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
yeah  
right  
oh i do too  
oh i do too  
but i just seem to to miss a lot of these programs  
i don't know why  
i just  
if i can catch them i do or if i remember  
oh yeah  
i watch one  
and  
oh  
oh okay  
yeah  
that's been on for years  
oh and so you get to come home and watch them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we  
yeah  
that's a good idea  
we did have h b o  
but it we just canceled it last week because it seemed like it was so repetitious you know  
it's just  
oh  
oh yes  
if you're up then  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
i i have a few you know favorite shows that i try not to miss  
l a law is one of them  
although this year's it's a little easier to miss than last year   with the new cast and everything  
right  
and uh i like [rosie] [o'neill]  
the trials of [rosie] [o'neill] with sharon [gless]  
she  
it's very good  
it it's probably very much a woman's uh show  
but uh and then there's a new sitcom on that is tim [allen's] uh what is it uh handyman  
that's not what uh  
home improvement  
it's hysterical isn't it  
did you catch the christmas  
i thought it was you know  
and it had such a good story too  
did you see the end of it  
well you know the little boy the little one was trying to decide if there was a santa claus  
they thought it was the neighbor  
he gave the two [doubting] [thomases] a rubber band and a paper clip  
i thought that was wonderful  
and uh on sunday used to be on sunday nights now i can't figure out where they've moved it  
on our uh public television they had a show at ten thirty that was a computer show  
and it showed the latest uh developments from all the computer companies  
well you know it's  
unless you're really into computers you and software you   probably wouldn't be interested  
but   i don't know  
it just really gave me kind of an outlook of what was available out there  
and uh you know what they they covered everything from entertainment to spreadsheets you know and then they   also the hardware  
so you could see what the new developments were and what to look for  
and   i enjoyed that  
it was just a thirty minute show with no commercials  
it's public television course doesn't have the commercials during the show  
so  
and i like the frugal gourmet  
well there's very few that you know my life would stop if i didn't catch  
but uh now i do  
before i go to work i tape my soap opera  
well i watch two  
but one's a half hour  
and one's an hour  
and and they lead into each other  
and that's the bold and the beautiful and as the world turns  
and i've watched the as the world turns since i was a little girl  
so it's just you know  
it's it's something i've done for the last probably twenty five years  
yes  
and i don't have anyone else at home  
so i have freedom to watch   whatever i want  
but i like i like every i like the uh the information shows  
and i like the comedies  
and   you know and i i do like good movies  
i prescribed subscribe to h b o  
so i can get some of the movies  
it is  
but i don't sleep a whole lot  
and i you know  
at two o'clock in the morning there isn't anything on regular t v  
and   and uh   so that's  
and you don't get good reception without cable  
and it doesn't   cost that much more to have one of the pay   channels  
so   that's primarily why i have it right now  
i i thought when i got my v c r i'd probably drop it you know  
but that was years  
what are your favorite t v shows  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i i rather enjoy the cosby show  
my wife and i both like [commish]  
uh  
it's either friday night  
it's either tonight or tomorrow night  
uh around here at least  
i guess   it depends on what channel you're getting   you know what system you're getting it through  
uh we we always enjoyed it  
it it seems to be kind of halfway between uh something like all in the family and uh hill street blues  

it's a good show  
you  
yeah  
yeah  

he's tender [hearted] fellow  
yeah  
i think that's what first drew us to him the uh the the relationship between he and his wife kind of looks a lot like ours  
but uh  
yeah  
uh   yeah  
uh i know we uh we watch [commish] any chance we get  
uh used to be a big fan of star trek  
but that's kind of  
it's gotten more and more to where they are so totally against uh anything spiritual  
but uh anyway  
yeah  
i i used to be a used to be a real big fan of star trek  
uh pretty much yeah  
i always enjoyed the show anyway  
and star [trek's] in a or the uh star wars set  
uh one of the first star wars movie  
i think i watched it like nineteen times  
uh i did at one time  
anyway   oh i i was a pretty big fan of that sort of thing  
used to used to read a read a lot of science fiction work too  
but uh no  
it uh  
we don't do a whole lot of t v watching  
but that uh i don't know if you heard them or not i got a twelve year old twelve week old baby  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that  
between   that and school it's not  
between him and school there's not much time left for   watching much t v  
yeah  
this one here is our first  
and we're both full time students  
so  
yeah  
what are you hoping for a boy or a girl  
that that's that's the best way you haven't found out yet or anything have you  
yeah  
that's the best way  
i mean it's like finding out somewhere in july what you're going to get for christmas  
i mean you know   it's not as much   fun  
oh  
anyway  
oh i'm about half kid at heart anyway  
i i  
the new cartoons don't seem to be worth much  
but the uh  
well a couple of the uh ones [disney's] doing aren't too bad  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
the the the worst of the violence in the [flintstones] was when somebody gave fred a poke in the [snoot]  
but oh shoot i mean blowing up [galaxies] and   and putting a curse on the whole planet or or or you know or on all the you know everything of this species you know just all kinds of crud  
yeah  
everything's [mutations] and and   and killing  
and   gone are the days of those things they  
what was it i uh t n turner broadcasting network used to used to uh do the saturday morning and sunday morning cartoons the old cartoons they used to put between the first and second feature at the theatre  
those old little ten minute jobs where uh the real ballooned looking art work you know  
and  
uh i guess one of my favorite ones is cheers  
i always liked that one  
they're always so funny  
and   i also like the cosby show  
those are probably my two favorites  
you know i've watched that one time  
and it was really good  
but now that's on what saturday night  
is it saturday night  
uh_huh  
i can't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
i saw it one time  
and i really liked it  
but i just haven't uh seen it you know watched it since  
yeah  
yeah  
the episode that i watched uh i liked him because even though he's a law enforcement officer you know sometimes   the laws are kind of ridiculous   and you need to sometimes break them to get your point across and for a good reason  
and he seems to do that sometimes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i thought it was a pretty good show  
i always like  
i i like to watch like sixty minutes and twenty twenty  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've never gotten into the star trek era  
used to be a [trekie] huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
you must have some of their lines memorized  
wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
twelve week oh i was   going to say i hear a baby in the background  
i imagine   that keeps you busy  
yeah  
well we're we're expecting our first in about three months  
so i know we won't be watching as much as we do now  
oh wow  
that must be tough  
it doesn't matter just a healthy baby  
well we had a [sonogram]  
but we told him not to tell us  
so   it's going to be a surprise  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's not   quite the same  
yeah  
i agree  
i'm sure we'll be watching more uh children oriented television shows  
oh i am too  
i still watch cartoons sometimes every once in a while when my sister comes to visit  
so  
well you know it seems like a lot of them are a lot more violent than they used to be  
you know i remember like the [flintstones] and the jetsons  
and   those were just kind of good old cartoons  
yeah  
yep  
yeah  
and they wonder why kids turn out the way they do nowadays  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
um i like watching colombo and um matlock and   quantum leap  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
yeah  
that one was  
what about  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i well i haven't seen either of those  
huh_uh  
um i also like to watch star trek  
but it's on so late here that i don't always get to see it  
uh i haven't seen any of the movies because i just barely just like in the last year or so got interested in it  
and they're you know already out with number six by now  
but so i haven't seen any of the movies yet  
but i  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've seen quite a few of the older ones  
i haven't seen really the new generation that much  
is there one you prefer better the older one or the the newer one  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i do too  
i have a brother in law who really likes the old ones a lot  
i mean he almost hates the new ones  
yeah  
because he he thinks the newer ones is like a soap opera and the other one isn't or something  
but i don't  
oh i think  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
well let's see  
um i like to watch colombo because it's like a mystery thing  
that's sort of how matlock is  
but colombo is way tricky  
i mean he doesn't even try to let the person know he's getting onto them  
well did you see the one  
um  
um yeah  
there's like one on  
well we see it thursdays at seven  
and   it was  
this last time it was about this um movie director  
did you  
did you see that  
really  
oh i guess i  
huh  
oh i guess i've i haven't seen it before  
yeah  
yeah  
on the set or something  
yeah  
it was  
but yeah  
i like colombo probably the best of any of those mystery things  
but um there's no never anything good on saturdays though  
i don't think so  
well star [trek's] on at five  
but i'm never home  
so  
oh  
i've heard of it a lot  
i've heard of  
a lot of people somehow or something  
they'll say so and so from twin peaks or something you know  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh did they end the whole series  
oh  
oh  
oh another show i like to watch is mash  
so what are your favorite shows  
oh really  
quantum leap  
did you see it the other night  
that was that was pretty good  
what do you  
with the [psychic] and everything  
okay  
yeah  
i like uh i like northern exposure and uh home improvement  
you've never seen northern exposure  
oh it's a great show  
really  
yeah  
we like it too  
have you seen the movie  
oh you haven't seen any of them  
oh well they're good  
they're real good  
they're uh they're getting rid of the old cast for the movies though  
which ones are you watching the new ones  
oh okay  
yeah  
well they're they're a lot different  
but i like i like the older ones because at that time you know they were really futuristic you know  
and the newer ones are i guess the newer ones are real futuristic too  
but i like i like both of them  
really  
no  
not really  
it's not really like   a soap   opera  
but but it's  
but that's true  
i mean you you learn more about the characters and stuff  
but that's the way all shows are now  
yeah  
yeah  
well it seems like they always   show colombo the same ones over and over though   you know what i'm saying like that one where he goes to college  
or is this is there a series on  
okay  
yeah  
i saw that one  
see that was a [rerun]  
yeah  
i wondered if that's  
see i don't know if that's a the movie of the week or or what  
but it seems like there's only about four or five different ones  
and then then they keep showing them over and over  
he was a movie director  
and he had that gal killed  
okay  
that was pretty good though  
uh_huh  
no kidding  
what is it that  
there's something i watch something i watch on saturdays  
and i can't remember what it is  
now i used to watch twin peaks  
you never saw that  
yeah  
yeah  
that was a different soap opera  
but it was it was a different type of show  
i didn't like the way it ended though  
yeah  
yeah  
they didn't they only did it for i think two years  
but it's all over now  
and where are you
uh_huh
well i guess the only people i've talked to before were from texas
so i i was
i was beginning to think that was the only people on the network
well what do you uh what are your favorite television shows
l a law
yeah
that's a very popular one around my office
but i've never seen it
never have seen it
i
well i can go even better than that i've never seen dallas either
never once
well i think i just sort of uh didn't start watching it
and then felt like i would have been way too late getting in on the action to figure out what was going on
so i never did get involved in it
uh_huh
who killed j r
oh
oh yes
yes
i remember reading about that thinking
uh i would have just strangled them
yes
i think that's right
i think they just lost their uh inspiration for a while
yeah
somebody said
that uh j r is going to die
and that will be end of the season forever
i mean the end of the show forever
well it's about time
too bad
they didn't kill him the first time
uh_huh
oh well i mostly watch public television
so yeah
i'm one of those
i uh
well i love masterpiece theatre
and i love the mystery series
oh yes
all of
oh
oh really
uh_huh
we have uh uh a local station uh on our cable network here that uh is showing all the miss [marples] over again
so we got to repeat them
i i think it is a
and e
uh_huh
oh they do have some absolutely gorgeous things
so
uh but they uh the one we just watched that we had videotaped from the weekend was the gardens of the world did you see that one this week
uh well we are lucky enough to now be on a cable system that has four public t v channels
so we we get things over and over
so if we miss them
we can catch them later
and that gardens of the world was absolutely glorious it was uh [audrey] [hepburn] was [narrating] it
and they took you all over
uh started in italy went to england france some in america uh also japan anyway it was a really a a visual treat
is that right
uh well
when i was in houston there was one station of just uh it was uh the university of houston station
and uh so it had not all of the stuff that people in other parts of the country were getting because each station gets its own mix
but when i moved to california and all of a sudden i had this uh this [surfeit] of public television
we can get all sorts of things everything from
i guess on saturday there you can watch something like eight different cooking shows
so i don't
but i could if i felt like it
uh_huh
really
i would have thought that was close enough
or you got a hill between you or something like that
well the about the only things i watch on commercial television are thirty something and twin peaks
uh and i just discovered that they uh have canceled both of those
so
well let me tell you that twin peaks was much better when it just started so maybe it's time for it to quit i they've gone downhill too
well the thing i liked about it was that it was so [unconventional] that you couldn't predict what was coming next
that's right
and this one had all sorts of weird little things and would go off in uh strange directions
and it had lots of uh little subtle touches that if you weren't watching you would miss uh that they'd have references to literature and things like that
and they'd also just have odd things like they walk into a bank [vault] and there's a deer head
lying on the table in the bank [vault] and there's no explanation for it they treat it as perfectly normal and somebody says what's the deer head doing here
and they said oh it fell off the wall
so why was it doing on the wall
and in one case the fellow was making coffee and they said there's a fish in the coffee pot
well i suspect that that's a reference to [thoreau's] fish in the bucket of milk
but i don't know for sure
and i'm not sure what the relevance would be if it were
anyway
it had a lot of things like that thing to make you keep watching just for the novelty and the surprise of it
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
well
yeah
i'd say probably what i watch the most faithfully is the news which i really don't watch as much as i just listen to it
well when i'm fixing dinner or something like that
i uh at least know if there's anything i want to read thoroughly in the newspaper
i get the headlines off the television
yeah
uh_huh
uh we just about had to get it because the reception in our particular locality was so poor
that we could only get about three stations and uh only one was a public station
and we had a san francisco station and a san jose station
but neither one of them was very clear they were both barely adequate
so we decided when the cable came through that we would get on it just
so we could see what we were watching
if we watched anything at all
uh_huh
yeah
i think i would be inclined to do the same thing if we could see anything
without the cable
uh_huh
yeah
they have had some absolutely wonderful shows
and they do they have incredibly good
what are called production jobs
they have really well [researched] uh locations and sets and costumes
uh my favorite
i watch the most is l a law
it seems to be you know it's on the evening time when i have more time to watch t v
and i watch that one
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
what are those
uh_huh
i've never seen that one
yeah
i know what it's about
i've just never seen you know saw it
is it
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that one's a funny one
one show
i can't stand is married with children
it's on i believe it's on sundays
or something
yeah
and it's kind of
disgusting
oh i know
and then they're always [grinding] you know it's just not
yeah
i don't care for those two
but no
i like l a law it you know it seems like it
i guess because it continues on each time and it keeps you interested
yeah
almost about
it's about what it seems to be like
so
yeah
it could be
i don't know that the you know the people that that much so
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i like on sundays
i like you know america's uh funniest videos and
yeah
i like to watch that one
i don't care for america's funniest people
but i like the other one
i can't remember the i'm not too much on uh you know [actors'] names
i don't
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that's a good show
uh_huh
how old is your son
oh okay
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well see my my husband likes the simpson's and i don't care for it too much my kids you know sit there an laugh with it when their dad laughs
but you know that my i don't care for the simpson's too much
but my husband likes it
so i don't get the humor sometimes in it
so
no
uh_huh
yeah
right
because it's animated
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i don't we don't have cable
so um
i don't watch too much television
you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
are you you're in dennison then
okay
i'm in garland
so
garland texas
oh okay
oh garland you know where richardson plano
okay
we're right
we're connected to richardson
we're right between like rowlett and richardson and and mesquite you know
yeah
yeah
you you garland is a little bit more to the east
i believe it would be so
yeah
uh yeah
i do
i guess i like that one
yeah
that's about i you know i don't like too much t v you know i do have a few of my favorites
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
my kids like to watch
you know uh sesame street sometimes
but they they're in more into watching their own videos you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's what my kids do they have [bambi] little mermaid you know all peter pan all those and then i check some out from the library you know
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
so that's what they like to do
so we seem to watch more videos for the kids and then my husband's a t v watcher he's a sports nut though
yeah
yeah
see my husband's one of these that will switch from game to game to catch a little bit of every one you know
and so
oh not him he'll watch a little bit of everything
so but i you know
and when now he starts doing that
i just leave the room and go read
or do something else because i can't handle it
i'm one that likes to sit and watch one show
so
uh_huh
oh yeah
well that's one nice thing about you know not having a remote you don't have to worry about your husband switching the channels
so but yeah
that's my about my favorite
so
well it's been nice talking to you
it's nice to talk
to somebody in texas for once
oh rochester north carolina all over
so
uh_huh
yeah
it's it's unusual
so
okay
you too
nice talking to you
it's okay
you can get started there
oh that's probably what i was going to say
okay
oh uh_huh
oh yeah
where where are you calling from
dallas
yeah
i'm from rowlett
oh really
really
i was going to ask you if you've been out to southfork uh_huh
uh
okay
i i can't say i'm that much of a faithful dallas follower
maybe it's because because i live here
and i know how [hokey] it is
i don't know
one of my uh uh i went to school out in plano
and one of my my [classmates] married one of the uh uh-oh
god [duncans] that actually owned southfork that started so
and i think she was in some of the shows for a while as extra and stuff
so
yeah
well what are you going to do
they're they're coming to the end of their season uh
i was going to say there's going to be no more dallas reruns yeah
of course they're uh they're probably going to set it up for some kind of sequel or something in the future
and uh
yeah
it's got to come back
uh_huh
so you didn't need to know the language
how about that
true
and hear hear the weird voices but uh
yeah
somebody one time was talking about john wayne movies with these weird japanese voices and it's hard to imagine well what do you think about what's going on on l a law this year it's
have you seen it the past couple of weeks
yeah
and she's pregnant
did you know that
and that they kicked michael kuzak out
did you know that
no
he uh the the
i'm trying to remember leland decided to extend [brackman's] uh [reign] as a senior partner
and the rest of the partners all got up in arms about it and michael met with them and said
and said you know we got to do something about this
we need to make a proposal that somebody else be the leader
and he kind of elected himself
and everybody else went along with it
and they they uh gave it to leland and he hit the roof and um he and [brackman] talked about it
and and [brackman] decided to try and do away with him
so he fired him because he he violated one of their policies of going behind a senior [partner's] back or something
so they fired him
they chased him off with the security guards
they're fighting out that battle now he's formed his own firm
he uh what else did he do
he did a lot of nasty stuff behind their back
yeah
he stole grace and [victor] they've gone with him um
and um who are the other two he stole two associates [abby] and jonathan he he took [abby] and jonathan with him
yeah
and he he went to uh he went to the bank and he took um i can't remember the guy the guy he [defended] for murder earl you know they had a lien against his house
so
he'd pay his legal bills do you remember that
yeah
uh_huh
they put a lien against his house
so
he'd pay his legal bills because it was like three or four hundred thousand dollars or something
well michael reduced his legal fees to twenty thousand dollars
so that they cut that out
so they they couldn't have a lien on his house anymore
so he did away with that
and then he went to the bank because the bank gave him apparently some extra credit because they had that lien well since they didn't have the lien anymore
they couldn't have the credit from the bank
so that that got the firm in hot water and then then michael went to court and and uh [petitioned] that they needed to go into [solvency] because they were so financially in bad shape
and uh they all showed up in court um leland was going to try a motion make a motion before that
so they ended up both being in court in front of the judge pleading their case
and um i think i think michael was doing it on the one hand and the guy that
do you remember the guy that that uh grace had an affair with the other lawyer that she had an affair with for a while kind of an older guy
no
he wasn't at the firm
he was like [rosalyn] [chase's] lawyer before it was earlier in the season she had an affair with this other lawyer
and and anyway leland apparently has hired him on now
and he's and he's defending this case
and what happened at the end is the judge um um michael wanted the firm put in [receivership] and the judge wouldn't do it
but he said he he's going to give a like a ten day evaluation
and he was going to put it in the hands of a [businessman] to to run it and see if the firm was [salvageable] or not
and and both parties had to come up with with lists of people that were [suitable] to to run it
and he rejected both of the lists and came up with his own person
you'll you'll never guess who this person is
think of the well it might be hard
but think of the the worst person that's been on the show in in the past two years besides [rosalyn] she's dead and gone
goofy you'll never get it it's it's uh was it [roxanne] [roxanne] [roxanne's] ex husband david [meyer] yeah
i know
that's who he put in charge of the firm he
yeah
but he's going to be he's going to be running the firm for the next
i don't know ten days or whatever to evaluate yeah
that's pretty pretty strange
well they they've already said that um who is it
i guess it's susan dey and and uh whoever plays kuzak isn't coming back next year
so some of this
some of this has to do with why they're not coming back i guess
yeah
they're going to stay there
in fact um susan dey and and uh the wife had had a [confrontation] about it
why why they didn't invite them and and the the firm that kuzak founded is just a litigation firm and they said well we wanted we wanted you
but we didn't really want [stuart] because he's not a [litigationist] and we didn't figure you you would come without him
and and we're going to be fighting against each other
so so it's just kind of weird
yeah
i know
i know
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that was kind of a bummer yeah
it's interesting to talk about their their marriage in real life because she had breast cancer and that
um probably um on friday nights full house
it's a family comedy
how about you
really
uh actually i don't have any kids
no
uh_huh
uh how about you
do you have a favorite one
uh_huh
uh_huh
see i really don't watch that
i i liked it originally when it first came on
but i guess when uh diane left the show
i i i i left it too
uh_huh
uh_huh
so do you like comedies mostly or
uh_huh
what kind of sports
uh_huh
just whatever's in season at the time
uh_huh
uh_huh
um yeah
it's mostly like you know comedies and movies um you know movies on cable that aren't interrupted i guess uh
yeah
i have cinemax
and the movie channel i guess
uh_huh
excuse me
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um yeah
i mean how much t v
do you normally watch
yeah
that that's about what i do
you know like around nine or so in the evening
i go
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
exactly
uh_huh
but then the thing on cable
is that like you'll if you like watch you'll you'll see that movies are repeated so often
uh_huh
um so you're not familiar with or with uh full house
right
well it's it's about like a a a [widowed] father who has three girls
and he has two other guys that live with him
and they're all raising like the three daughters
and it it
yeah
but it's really interesting
and it's really funny
i i enjoy it
eight o'clock friday nights
uh_huh
uh_huh
well and i have when harry met sally on cable on
yeah
it's a really good movie
i guess the other thing i like is like the cosby show i like that on thursday nights
really
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um um yeah
that's that's really about it
i guess uh
uh_huh
yeah
i can remember what was that i spy or whatever that he was in
yeah
uh_huh
i liked that
yeah
right
i know i always liked that yeah
that cartoon i always liked that
uh_huh
uh not really that much lately
i used
uh_huh
oh no no no no
you like that one
huh
uh_huh
i never even saw the movie
or the second one i guess
uh_huh
yeah
oh really
i i like more of the cartoons that were on when i was younger like bugs bunny and you know [porky] oh i never really liked him
no
road runner
yeah
road runner [daffy] duck you know all those kind of guys i like those
oh i like that
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
and it's interesting from the perspective of his perspective
i guess
uh_huh
i'm a little bit younger i was born quite i was born in sixty three
so i was
i'm i little bit younger
no
i don't really get into the simpsons either
no
no
not really
uh_huh
uh on occasion i'm usually not home on you know sunday evenings
but uh on occasion
i do
and twenty twenty
really
i've never seen that one
uh well i'm not normally home during when talk shows are on
uh_huh
oh really
well see where i live she's on during the day
i live in virginia
yeah
a lot of people that i've talked to have been like that that you know that they can't realize that
i
they're they you know thought that was a little strange that i was from virginia
but
so all the talk shows here are on during the day
so the only time i ever catch anything is if i come home a little bit home early from work and see oprah because she's on at four
uh_huh
but you know that's
they tend to arrange though the topics seem to go like in a cycle
and it seems like on everyone's show they have the same topic like within a certain range of time
at least that i see notice not that i see them that often
but from what i hear people telling me
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh gosh
that's a little yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh um
uh_huh
exactly um
well you know i even like uh entertainment tonight
with you know i like that you you learn a little bit about the [stars'] lives you know
yeah
uh_huh
um and i guess that's about it
we seem to have gone over the whole realm of all the different kinds of t v
no
i definitely don't watch those
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that will give you a lot of entertainment
uh_huh
oh that i don't i don't really get into watching sports on t v
i'd rather be there in person
i guess
but if you can't be there in person
i guess seeing it on t v the next best thing
uh_huh
yeah
i guess i guess you would
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's a benefit
uh_huh
oh really
no
i haven't either
i haven't either
and i do want to see that
oh sure
it was nice talking to you
okay
right
right
yeah
sure
yeah
right
i don't know
i've i tend to like a lot of the old uh older t v shows like uh for instance there's there's i love watching old twilight zones
and um and they've been there's a station here that runs mostly [syndicated] things
and that's one thing i like to catch on late at night is the old twilight zones
but um for t v
that's out right now i i the shows i like to see for one reason or another that i've been catching um matlock and tuesday nights for some i guess are my t v night
and i like to see uh matlock and then in the heat of the night
uh are two shows that that i like to see after seeing the the television show in the heat of the night
i wanted
i haven't never seen the movie
but uh i think i'd like to check out that movie sometime
it's um i don't know it's just kind of interesting
they have great characters in that uh t v show
and it's interesting from
i just saw the pilot to it
oh a week or two ago
and it was a special two hour thing
but it was the first thing like i said the pilot and um the characters in it were the white police officers when the the black guy from philadelphia went down there were much more bigoted and more the [villains] in that episode
and now over the time of the television show
they're all very much um um not or very more in the twentieth century now
or let's say they are very [unbigoted] and they even have added uh this uh other black police officer to the cast so it's interesting how they kind of got away from the i guess the premise of the movie as well as the problems that that uh he had with the police officers and now it's more concentrated on the problems they have in the small town in the south
and it's it's kind of interesting because it's supposed to be this little tiny town down in down south
but um i live in this little teeny town up here in upstate new york
and it's not too much different
so people got a lot to learn
i everywhere
right
right
i i don't know
either
i don't know
yeah
right
right
sure
it's a lot different seeing [carroll] [o'conner] in that role than um archie [bunker] in
and maybe a little more versatile than anybody ever gave him credit for
but uh
right
this this is the heat of the night
isn't it
oh oh all in the family right
right
right
right
sure
when it was relevant yeah
well you've got old [meathead] there
and the rest of the gang at the where [meathead] and and sally [struthers] there with the um the liberals supposedly correct view
at the time
and then uh archie [bunker] with his uh [antiquated] uh red [necked] uh ideas
i don't know it the old meets new head on and whatever
but now it's all old
so you could have another one
you could have a new t v show with um rob [reiner] and sally [struthers] in with their kids moving in
and um
yeah
and have them be oh i don't even know [yuppies] are [passe] now i'm not even sure what uh
yeah
okay
well it was nice talking to you
all right
oh yes
oh uh_huh
i'd noticed that in the t v guide
and i'd totally forgotten all about that
looks like it would be a good series
oh i kind have a very wide range of uh different shows that i like i mean even the what is it america's funniest videos
there's something about that
i don't know if it's the [simplicity] of it or just the total stupidity of it
that is good
and uh i don't get to watch t v that often
or sit back and enjoy it
i have a nine month old
so that occupies a lot of the time
yeah
those are good
i like uh in the heat of the night
yeah
right
uh that that's had some good episodes to it
and then plus in the new course you have to have at least one soap opera
right
there i mean at least [knot's] landing or something on that order
right
i've been uh i tend to i try to catch that every now and then i mean you still catch up with it you know in a couple of weeks
right
yeah
been trying to catch the last few weeks
so i can see how it ends
oh no
should be interesting
right
lots of tongue in cheek
right
he's uh with him producing that it it he hasn't done a bad job
we uh sort of get a kick out of the simpsons
uh_huh
right
it it definitely grows on you
and you think that it's so far fetched you know with the normal family life that stuff
but every now and then they'll surprise you and have a moral to it
and they do the right thing
right
and uh the things that uh bart will write on the uh [chalk] board at school
right
that's right
we do that a lot at work
right
you know a lot of things come off of saturday night live that
get caught up into the normal everyday routine
right
and oh what was the one that [gilda] [radner] did
oh
and and i'm real good at it too
well no
it's not in that special well anyway but you know what i'm saying
things will get picked up from it
and uh
right
oh yeah
t v is on constantly here
whenever we're at home
i've seen one of one part of an episode
it didn't do anything for me
we like look who's talking
this just wasn't anything to me like it you know wasn't it bruce willis that did the voice
but there's just something with that
yes
right
i've been catching that
and that's real interesting
yeah
the one that fell down the
i was like wait
i missed that [rewind] there
right
right
uh_huh
it's quite it's quite a the last few episodes are going to be good
right
l a law's getting rid of several of their characters
uh i heard that they just wanted to keep it fresh and did not have the same ones there forever
and so they would be bringing in new ones or whatever
yes
yes
at the swimming pool
yeah
i know that those three were supposed to leave
and i don't remember about
i don't know if he's supposed to leave either or not
are you out on the west coast
oh you're in texas
okay
you mentioned the time the time frame and i got confused there
yeah
uh_huh
right
on thursdays yeah
yeah
we've covered a lot of them
well i enjoyed talking to you
you too
this is an easy subject
i i guess i watch too much t v
but do you afternoon shows mainly then
yeah
my kids love to watch cartoons and i have to come in the other bedroom to watch jeopardy and and but what are some of your favorite sitcoms or whatever at night
yeah
pretty good
uh_huh
uh_huh
you don't have a real favorite
or
they're your favorites huh
they're pretty good
oh it surprises me that yours aren't the same as mine
and i thought i formed mine kind of with my husband so we've been mcgyver fans forever
i don't know if you ever watch that
it's on monday night
we we enjoy it mainly because it i think it has it's full of adventure and stuff like that
yeah
and we used to like cosby real well
but it it's kind of slacked off a little bit
it's not one of our murphy brown always is good for several laughs
we like that
we watch doogie quite often too
but the last couple we wondered if the kids should watch with and tonight's or tomorrow night's sound pretty bad too
so
but uh we we watch and l a law is another one
we probably watch if we can
and quantum leap
we have our our favorites of course i don't know what channel they're all on probably different ones
that's kind of fun to watch too
are you watching the world series right now
too
or
i have a brother that lives in minnesota
so this kind of has been fun to watch
they tried to get get tickets
but man the [scalpers] that were out
wanted a hundred and fifty per ticket
yeah
i just read in today's paper where the dynasty sequel uh out rated the world series
that surprised me
i didn't think i didn't care to watch that dynasty at all
i guess it depends on if you're a dynasty fan or not
it will be interesting to see how many keep with it
see if it was really that good or not
but yeah
yeah
they look that that's pretty good
oh gee
oh well
i think i'll stick with the world series
let them fight it out
i don't
no
i i watched dallas when it first came on
and then i lost interest in it too
and dynasty i just never did get into
so but well i think that's all we need to discuss we have a few similar not too many
and i'll have to watch one of yours and see if i like it
so
all right
it was good talking to you
uh major dad the monday night comedies on c b s
like major dad murphy brown is one of my favorites
for some reason she reminds me a lot of myself
it's just the writing
i think the writing on that is real good
one i miss is uh doctor doctor
i we used to when it was on because i i thoroughly enjoyed it
uh yeah
i understand that
i do understand that
no
uh yeah
well it used to be before we got married
but my husband's not a real big football person
so
well he is if it's dallas
and if they're on t v
but if it's not then we'll watch anything else because he really likes major dad
and and murphy brown all those too
oh uh designing women
yes
with the [sugarbakers] i think that's one reason i named my daughter julia well that well
and my great grandmother's name is julia so we named her that too
uh do you have kids
oh okay
i was going to say because we also have to watch dinosaurs on channel eight
because oh
not to mama not to mama
well when my two year old starts saying that
it's like okay
we we know what he's been watching for too long
i just i
oh i like those
that's fun
that's
normally on thursday nights we just kind of turn the t v off because neither one of us really
we usually either watch c b s on monday nights and then the rest of the time it's a b c
it's like oh well we don't watch anything else fine
we used to when n b c had no
that was on tuesday night uh matlock because i got my mom got me started watching that show
just because she liked andy griffith
so that was fun
uh_huh
uh_huh
i like
yeah
i used to like it when [columbo] and and all those were on and and [rockford] files but it's like gosh
that seems like a long time ago
they're fun
they're fun
yes
yes
i like that
well i guess you probably don't get to see northern exposure then if he's watching football on monday nights
that's
it's it's a real strange one
it's almost well it's like twin peaks
but funny
we used to like to watch twin peaks for the first season
it was like oh this is really neat
and then it got weird
like real strange
uh_huh
now who did what
yeah
because it's you really have to be dedicated we would like tape it and send the kids to bed say okay now we can watch this because you have to watch every scene to kind of figure out what it's doing
and it
even then it's like huh
what
uh_huh
uh
it was a really really strange show
but it's like well i'm sorry it's gone
but i really didn't got towards the end
we didn't watch it at all anyway
yeah
give
give me comedies i'll i'll watch those
i like those
yeah
i'm a i'm a comedy kind of person
yeah
well because yeah
because you can like turn it off
you only have to watch half hour at a time
uh_huh
well unless it's like you have kids and you have to watch full house
and you have to watch dinosaurs
and you have to watch erkle on friday nights and you know
i understand that
did you did you happen to see it last night
that was cute
[pablo] [pablo] it was like it's just a stupid bug yeah
but i know i think it was four hundred and eighty something dollars
so they went to [citizen's] court ooh
ah
did you really
huh
without the glasses
and the [suspenders] and but have you seen the commercial for the erkle doll
it dances i was like oh boy it dances it talks it sounds like erkle oh no
it even [snorts] oh well it these people like they really have lives
but it's just kind of strange
oh yeah
hello
my name is uh donna [donoghue] and i'm calling from plano texas
hi
yes
i did
okay
um let's see um i enjoy watching the today show early in the morning with my first cup of coffee because everyone is still sleeping i have three children
and i enjoy watching the news because i probably don't have as much time as i'd like to sit and read the paper um
what about yourself
uh_huh
right
yeah
i enjoyed that too
i guess also that was a nice one
because it was at a time when the kids are already in bed
um i
uh i haven't had a chance
uh_huh
is it in
is it set in a different era is it
oh okay
i didn't
i've i've seen the commercial for it
but it's not uh seem to be on at a good time for me i try to stay away from horror movies
i just dislike them totally yeah
i don't um
yeah
that's
that's right
and um with young kids in the house we just really try to screen a lot of the things that they they watch um we watch a lot of sesame street and a lot of p b s and the uh discover channel or lifetime
yes
it is it is it is wonderful
and especially my eleven year old is just fascinated by some of the the things they have on there
um what else i my husband enjoys watching a lot of sports which i really um don't particularly enjoy
but they're they're on there
i tolerate it
uh_huh
okay
and um what else is there's a lot of things that i just can't believe is even on t v you watch it for two minutes and think this is so ridiculously stupid
you can change it you know what is a good station too
we subscribe to the disney channel
yeah
it's it's a really nice
and they have um you know movies that sometimes we'll sit and enjoy
and it's it's really very nice uh that was we dropped um h b o because there was just never anything appropriate on for the kids and now with renting videos
so readily i mean you can just rent it if you really want to see it that badly
but
that's right
and then and then they repeat everything
so often too
and or if it's on at ten at night
well i i'm asleep by ten at night
i don't think i could stay up that late any more
um not to start a movie anyway
uh_huh
i see i see
yeah
it does it does seem high
but um what other there's a
i guess one or two sitcoms and the kids of course like to watch that new dinosaur show
that's which is pretty silly
but but they
yeah
yeah
once in a while [bryan] watched that
but that is more for an older kid than than the younger ones
you know so that seems okay for them
i do too
i had to try to tell my kids that you know we don't really talk to each other like that
i hope we don't any way to make sure they don't think well gee mom
look what their kid just said say well
but um
and the kids like to watch that doogie [howser]
but uh even that sometimes i have to shut it off and say it's
an adult theme we don't need to watch that tonight
we'll get out the clue game or
okay
oh um i like um like shows like um sitcoms i don't really have a favorite
i don't watch a lot of t v
but i like um like full house is a cute show
um and like growing pains and just the cute little comedy shows i don't think i really have a favorite um
oh yeah
that's a that's a good show too
uh_huh
oh yeah
i don't know
oh family matters
uh_huh
right
yeah
right
oh me neither
oh
what was that
oh
oh
um
yeah
i don't really watch that too often
oh
yeah
yeah
that's true
yeah
yeah
sometimes they try too hard
the t v shows
oh yeah
yeah
i used to watch it the general hospital that soap but oh yeah
yeah
that's true
right
they try to get um your interest started of something really good
but it ends up being really stupid nobody likes it
oh yeah
yeah
well that's good
kids should be watching you know shows like that they don't need to see all this violence there's enough violence in real life you know let alone
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
i can see that probably does that to a lot of people
oh um oh you know i like like the the older um shows like they show on the
you know the weird channels that are hardly ever on
i'm like happy days was one of my favorites
and the brady bunch when i was little
i really liked those shows and every once in a while
you're flipping through the channels
and you'll see an very old [rerun] or something
oh yeah
yeah
me too
yeah
okay
now what is your favorite t v show
well can't you find anything else to uh to replace
so you don't watch northern exposure
oh okay
you are having to be in reruns for that one
have you seen brooklyn bridge
that is one of the
it is so clean and so laid back
and uh i am awful tired of some of the things that they have on t v
but this thirty minute story is i would certainly recommend that you try it
oh okay
well
and i think it is a shame that our life has to be
i mean so many of the tragedies that we have in the movies or on t v
no
we need something lighter than that
have you seen uh i will fly away
yes
yeah
well
uh it is not i don't know it's it's clean it's there again you don't have the violence and uh i am surprised that it is even still on because coming at seven o'clock in the evening
that is when the children want to watch
and that is not part of it
so uh
oh
well uh let's see i believe texas lost last night is that correct
well you don't have to
well don't you ever forget that oklahoma is not bad
but oklahoma state though is is the better of the two
so that is right
yeah
i am a [transplanted] okie well we've from somewhere is correct
so i hope you can find enough t v to keep you happy this winter
well i have recently retired
and i find that this is the most boring thing in the world is to sit and watch t v
oh you don't well
well it's oh it's nice to have the noise
sometimes it is nice that you don't need that noise
do you work out of the home
oh
hello
how you doing
hi holly uh my name's lee i'm calling from uh plano texas
oh okay
well i guess we're supposed to talk about
oh it's been beautiful today
yeah
snow
no
not over here
just a little bit north of us though
yeah
just a little bit north of it's been beautiful today probably uh high fifties low maybe you know low sixties
oh it's beautiful
how about there
oh good
good you've had enough uh water for a while
well uh
yeah
we better
let me push one here
okay
what's that
let's see i've got four kids
and they our t v are usually
are usually yeah
uh ruled by the kids
so we watch all the [usuals] uh you know cosby kids and uh
we
yeah
we like to watch comedy
uh uh we uh our kids are so involved in sports and stuff that our nights
are we're not home very much at night
so
uh what are yours
oh is that right
oh isn't that a great show
that is the funniest show
oh that is the funniest show
uh
yeah
uh_huh
now they've got one tonight
with susan dey yeah
that that looks intriguing it looks kind of
it would be
well we we've got uh enough t v that that whoever wants to you know watch uh if yeah
the majority stays in the front room and watches and whoever wants to watch something else can go somewhere else
and watch it
so uh yeah
i think my wife and i are probably going to just stick in our room and and watch that one
it looks it looks intriguing to me
so but uh
yeah
how about during the day
do you do you watch any of the soaps or you watch any
of the talk shows
you work
okay
uh_huh
yeah
the old shows
oh yeah
oh yeah
yeah
you know i was watching uh i took the day off today
and i was watching uh donahue
and he had uh past child stars
yes
uh he had uh danny [bonaducci] from uh the [partridge] family
he had uh uh jay north you know dennis the menace and he had [spanky] [mcfarland] and he had uh you know three or four others
uh and they were talking about uh child stars and how they were mistreated as you know when they were growing up
and uh
yeah
and they were talking about this uh [macaulay] kid you know from
home alone
what if the kid
you know all of a sudden said well i don't want to do this anymore
you know
and i guess his dad is the uh is also his agent
yeah
you know i mean if i guess i'm i i kind of put myself in in his dad's shoes if if my kid was making you know twenty five million dollars a year
and he came to me and said i don't want to do this anymore
i mean what do you do
what do you say you know
yeah
that's right
so he
yeah
so uh it
i wouldn't think so
you know i guess
yeah
i'm kind of sympathetic to the to the young kids that are involved in that and and uh but as far as shows
uh you know my kids like to watch all the cartoons on saturdays
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh
that should be really fun to to watch
uh yeah
my kids
okay
what kind of t v shows
do you like
uh_huh
i see
uh_huh
the news
okay
um i don't i don't care for wheel of fortune very much
i don't care for game shows in general i guess
uh they're not
usually there's usually not that many on in the evening anyway so about the wheel of fortune
is about the only one that's on in the evening times
yeah
yeah
um i do like uh well they had a good t v movie on last night called separate but equal
it's a general motors hall of fame type presentation uh it's a two [parter] the other [part's] on tonight
but it was about the uh the uh the
well it's supposed to be a true story you know a [dramatization]
the true story of the legal struggle that ended up in the supreme court decision brown versus the board of education which ended up um oh saying that separate and equal is not constitutional as far as you know schools
it was talking about
and it was interesting
it was a it's it's it's really a high one of these high drama type you know uh shows
that's also true any of those things i like [hallmark] hall of fame
and those kind of shows are always so good
i like to watch those
right
right
oh yeah
i can watch those national geographic ones over and over again
and they're they're good
they're they're i like news shows too like uh sixty minutes or twenty twenty
uh when i have a chance i watch those on uh i guess sixty minutes is usually on sundays
and uh i just like to see you know who they are raking over the [coals] i haven't caught that one yet
twenty twenty
uh_huh
right
right
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
right
well that makes it hard
yeah
that was a good show
um what else do i enjoy oh my wife and i have been into this uh l a law
have you ever heard of that show
yeah
it's getting pretty you know it's kind of like a dallas type thing you know
but it's more of it it takes place in l a and it's this law office and all the cases they take and the and the uh [interoffice] uh uh politics and so forth people trying to maneuver and get power and back [stabbing] and also helping each other and you know if you know all the [interoffice] love affairs
and uh all that all that kind of stuff
and you know power struggles to see who's going to be the next uh uh-oh president of the law firm or whatever
and that kind of thing
and uh and then of course they always have a lot of court cases
and they show where they actually have courtroom drama type thing where they're trying to you know you're always sitting there trying to guess at the end of the show you know
and they always have the verdicts you know
and you're always trying to out guess is he going to be guilty or innocent or whatever
and they always put you know twists and turns twists
and they throw a lot of twists and turns in like like one of the recent shows
there was this really uh young woman who uh was accused of killing her millionaire husband who was you know much older than she was like you know in her early twenties
and he was in his sixties
and he was she was accused of killing him for his money
and she said no
she wasn't and the and this law firm took on the case and got her off um
and uh and you know you think she's innocent all along you know and just you know because of her circumstances that you know that's why people thought she had done it you know because it just looked so obvious that she had done it
and that's why everybody assumed she had
and so they get her off and at the very end of the case after it's over he's talking with her
and he figures out that she really did do it
after all
uh after he got after he got her off
well that's how the show
that's how the show ended
it just left you hanging there like
you know like you set me up you fed me all this information you know that made it look like this other person was guilty you know
and and that's how he basically got her off by by casting a shadow of doubt saying well this other his daughter did it you know
and because this other will was had her name on it you know and all this kind of stuff
but actually she had done it after all
and he figured it out after he made her innocent
and then that was right before he was going out to the big news conference you know to talk to the reporters and stuff you know and how does it feel you know to get her off the hook
and this and that
and they he went out there
knowing that she was really guilty
so that kind of thing
so it's a fun show then i like comedies also like uh there's a show called i watch [rosanne] once in a while
uh you you've heard of her probably
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
i don't watch her that often
i watch sometimes i watch the simpsons that's that cartoon show
bart simpson's or coach is another one
it's a sports comedy where the guy is a coach of a a football team
a team at minnesota state where they're never have a good team you know
but he's always trying to always trying to pull it off and he has his girlfriend the that broadcasts the [anchor] at the local news station
and she's always trying to get him out of [jams]
and she
so you know whatever whenever i have time i just turn it on basically
and see what's on
it is
no
no
right
yeah
so but i enjoy taking in a movie when i can i'm going to try to watch the second half of this one tonight
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
they catch you up
and the
right
right
do you have like a a v c r
yeah
it broke down yeah
right
so little so little time to do that
yeah
have a chance more chance to relax
right
there's always a movie on you
right
right
how much are they out there
yeah
six fifty yeah
yeah
i think out here they are still about five fifty
about a dollar less
things are going up all over too
yeah
right
specials
uh_huh
yeah
the all sports station
yeah
right
i see
right
uh_huh
the same yeah
yeah
well i think we've probably talked long enough about this subject
well it was nice talking to you
you have a nice day
okay
uh well what's your favorite t v program
uh_huh
huh
uh well to the to the great chagrin of my husband
i i love all forms of entertainment and so i i watch entertainment tonight with [regularity] i tape it and watch it the next day
yes
right
well they've been doing it saturday nights now
uh_huh
ten thirty
um for an hour
i mean
no
that just what can i say it's just a matter of taste
and the rest of the time right now there's not a t v series that i'm particularly glued to
uh i watch some of the [anthologies] if they've got something interesting on like masterpiece theater or mystery or something like that
yeah
yes
we saw we saw several of those
not all of them
and uh so we're we're we're pretty watchers
we've i've been introduced to the [joys] of star trek
so we watch that with with
only the new one
i i i i never really was interested in the old one
and uh and so but i i like the cast of the new one
so uh that's what we watch
uh saturdays
uh_huh
true
that's true
uh i i'm a very selective watcher i i look at the t v section and decide what i'm going to watch and watch it
but as a rule i don't sort of stroll around the dial and let things catch my eye
yes
unlike certain parties
oh yes
oh yes
and also i don't know how old they are
but there's [nickelodeon] oh well they would enjoy that
uh_huh
so would i
i wouldn't admit it to anybody
oh well yes
you hit upon a a weak spot of mine
i i i have a thing for the actor who played [cornelius] [hackel] yes
i mean forty i'm here twenty years later
that's because he's uh he plays the phantom of the opera now
and
oh yes
but i've already got that on tape
so we didn't tape it
i like old movies
i love musicals uh_huh
uh_huh
right
oh i know
i know i keep a little a little a little library and if i get stuck
i can resort to my little library
in all sorts of things
it's surprising with all the choice we have
sometimes there's no choice
not really
but uh you know i'm luckily i had i hadn't started dinner yet
huh
i don't know
i got kicked off the other day
because they said the lines were busy
but i think i uh i i think that's unusual
i don't think that's typical
me too
me too
and uh you you keep on watching for those old movies
all right
all right
okay
what do you like
do you watch t v much
oh
really
oh yeah
okay
no
i don't watch that
in the
i did watch it in the beginning when it was new
and it was kind of funny a couple of times
and then i don't i don't watch it
yeah
yeah
yeah
it's just for kick i know
yeah
but look at the soap operas
yeah
i do too
i know
yeah
i'm not a t v person
i haven't been a t v person
and i really didn't even know what was ever on
and then this year for some reason i have a twelve year old and for some reason we've just gotten real comfortable with these little sitcoms at night
oh just the little funny things we love full house
and you know i just
yeah
it's
mine too
and i it's nice and wholesome and there aren't very many
of those you know
so we look forward to that
and i love
i just love that little bitty girl on there
she is so cute
yeah
uh_huh
did you see it a couple weeks ago when they had her fifth birthday
that was so precious
it was
and i hadn't realized that she had been on the show that the show had been on that long
but she was so tiny
oh i don't remember
yeah
right
right
right
yeah
yeah
i don't watch it
i don't like it very much
yeah
i just never i never got into it
and it might be the time that it's on
and i'm not sure when it's on
but
uh_huh
i don't know why
i don't know why i never watch it maybe because it's the weekend
i'm not home a lot
but really
i never got into it very much
and my daughter loves quantum leap
and i hate that show
oh
he's so it's such a strange thing
have you ever seen it
it's
he changes he has a little buddy
that's sort of like a conscious or something
i'm not sure
and he goes to a different time
you know a time in the past
it's sort of like a back to the future thing
and he goes back and he changes things
so that they're not like somebody doesn't die
but he becomes that person
i mean he's already been a pregnant woman and had a baby
it's a uh i have trouble with it
it's just a really ridiculous show
i just hate it
my daughter looks forward to it
she likes it
yeah
i guess so
i don't know
but i just i like that kind of thing
and i like brooklyn bridge that's a new one to see
uh brooklyn bridge
it's a new one that just came on this year
and i like it because it's the fifties back in brooklyn
well being from new york
i relate to when the dodgers were in brooklyn
and i mean back you know
and so it's like that time
and the kids are little when i was kind of little you know
and it was
it's sort of like that
so it's a little bit nostalgic for me
and the things that my father taught a lot of them are in the show you know
so that kind of thing
yeah
so i like that
oh can we do that
we don't have to tell them
i mean they don't tell us when to hang up
oh i didn't know that
oh okay
well you better pull your little paper out
you better pull your little paper out and keep going then
it's not over
maybe they will
oh it's been fun to talk to you
me too
well probably my favorite t v program is murder she wrote i happen to be a mystery fan
and uh programs such as perry mason and [ironside] and murder she wrote
and [columbo] all of those are my favorite kinds of programs
uh_huh
well
yeah
no
i don't think we get it here
oh
oh
what kinds of things do they uh show
oh my word
uh_huh
oh my word
uh_huh
probably things that that they happen every day
and we don't even notice them until someone [videotapes] them
is that right
uh_huh
yeah
i saw that for the first time yesterday in the evening
uh_huh
yeah
i have never seen her show
but after hearing her sing the stuff the star [spangled] banner
[anthem] i will never watch her show
uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
right
uh_huh
do you
oh yes
that's a good program
uh_huh
oh okay
well i think that they uh they seem like they are friends with one another and with all of their guests rather than just interviewing yeah
did they
uh_huh
uh_huh
well great
of course i have to admit i i love uh when the fall comes i love uh football
and i watch all the football games monday night thursday night and sunday afternoon
well and not everybody is
yeah
but uh i can't get too
enthused about it yet
it seems to me i have to feel that the fall
weather to really do something uh with regard to football
yeah
i of course i always hate to see it end in january
i'd like to see it go on for a couple of months
but football to me uh in real real hot weather
it just doesn't uh doesn't click now i enjoy going to baseball games
but i don't enjoy watching them on television and i don't enjoy watching basketball on television
they're they're both
well baseball's so slow
and uh basketball seems like all that you can really see is run and shoot run and shoot run and shoot
and uh because the average person doesn't get to see enough of the entire floor to see a play get uh develop and so uh uh i don't usually watch them
i'll listen to baseball
and i'll listen to uh like the indianapolis five hundred
i would not go and face all those crowds for anything in the world
but uh but no
i won't watch it
i'll listen to it on the radio
yeah
while i'm doing something else
but i won't sit still long enough to watch them go around and around and around to me that is very boring
but i i don't watch
i don't sit and watch for long periods of time anyhow
yes
we certainly do
are you
sure
right
i guess so
oh with the dallas cowboys
although they haven't
done very well the last couple of years
but uh they'll be back up there
yeah
they'll climb back up again
and that texas stadium
i've been there
that is a phenomenal place
well and i think that's maybe what i like about it
in that so many of them are totally enclosed
oh i well i have
and they're very noisy
and uh then of course i've been up to cleveland ohio where the cleveland browns play
and that's just a wide open stadium
and that cold wind comes off the lakes and it is miserable oh
but um now you go down to cincinnati
and they have a nice stadium down there
but it's it's all open also
two yeah
yeah
and then of course indianapolis which is only a hundred miles away from us has the colts yeah
so they got a lot of sports going on around here
uh_huh
oh yes
oh yes
well i uh i'm retired from education
i worked thirty four years as a teacher and administrator in the dayton here this the dayton school system
and uh some of my players uh players some of my former students uh play with minnesota vikings
and then with the cleveland browns
yeah
it was it was fun
because uh they would call when they were with the browns they would call and say we left tickets at the gate for you all come on up
so we would hop in the car
the next morning and drive up
and we had tickets waiting for us
yeah
yeah
oh sure
one of them was grown up and was chief of police here
yeah
right
when you see the ones who are successful
and there are many of them around and uh makes me feel good to know i played one small part in their rearing
well i i uh when i first started out teaching it was at college level
and then uh after we moved here to dayton then i went to the high school level
and i really enjoyed that more and so then i taught the physical education actually with the i was the specialist in water safety
and so i taught uh the the physical education and swimming um on the high school level
and then they just kept pushing me into administration and and i wound up as an assistant principal
and then i went down to the central office and was part of a team to to to develop a program to evaluate schools and to uh try to resolve problems within schools
yeah
sure
i was also a [gymnast] when i was very small in a [czechoslovakian] turner society
anyway so what have what have you been into did you watch l a law last night
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
they they they get first crack huh
well i usually i guess a lot of the sitcoms cosby cheers uh
uh
uh_huh
yeah
a different world
a different world
what else did i get in uh uh but some of the other ones
like i've been getting into l a law and uh
no
i don't make a point i i guess
i really never make a point to to watch anything
i'll just end up catching it
but uh
yeah
you know if i'm not doing
that night
uh you know which i guess is usually most nights no
but uh
oh
speaking of twenty twenty you didn't see the one in with the [exorcists] uh_huh
yeah
i did
oh well the girl that supposedly was possessed uh had actually uh you know seen uh you know uh some medical the medical side
i don't know if it was a psychologist
or
what all
but um you know it was it's interesting uh
and uh you know i'm from you know i'm was raised catholic fairly you know
fairly strong with my mom and dad
so
but it you know that's kind of interesting
um but the bottom line it you know they did the [exorcism] it wasn't real major you know she was fairly you know you know obviously there
she you know she something was wrong with her
but uh it wasn't really uh you know extraordinary as far as her actions
and she had done that
and she felt like that helped her
but at the same time shortly after that [exorcism] they also started um um uh giving her medication for like a split personality type of
so uh she's doing better
but
and and the girl herself you know believes that it you know that she was uh you know possessed but
and you know it it's
hard to say
yeah
i'm i'm not sure you know who knows
but uh anyway it wasn't
uh you know it was uh it was you know
well i i can't say it wasn't just because of the fact that that it's pretty unusual for something like that to be nationally televised uh or or have anybody come in you know who who would want to have that televised you know if that was happening to your daughter
and her parents
are right there you know doing it all you know
so
um
uh_huh
yeah
i'm in phoenix arizona
right now
are you in dallas
oh okay
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
i i never got caught up in twin peaks either
so
yeah
uh i don't know
i don't hear people talk at work you know as far as uh you know what what people are getting into but uh um you know some of the top sitcoms obviously do you know always in the top five you know the cosby
or
i think a different world is real strong
and uh
well that's the one
it's the one right after cosby
and it's produced by cosby
and it's about
it's basically about uh college uh you know
and it it
it's you know since it's kind of promoted by cosby it's you know mostly blacks
but uh but it's it's a pretty good show
it uh
have you ever
heard of [jasmine] guy
okay
now she's one of the main stars of that
and now she's just come out came out with an album
and uh and which is fairly successful she's got one or two singles that have done very well
so
but she is a very strong personality in that show
in fact they just had a show covering aids so you know they
try to get their messages across i should say
uh_huh
um not sure
yeah
yeah
uh that one is is it still competing with cosby such a brat
honestly
i'm indifferent
i probably i probably will watch a little bit of everything
uh i i i i get into movies
i'll uh i'll see you know i'll watch twenty twenty
or i'll uh you know i guess i'm only mostly into sitcoms i guess my you know one show i'm really into is arsenio hall
and uh and then you know i've been watching him for a long time now
and i i needed a break
and i watched johnny carson last night a little more level you know
and so it's like i'm just think oh what do i feel like today you know we're getting our options on different talk shows
and i always liked watching letterman
but he starts so late
yeah
well the the talk shows
with the personality yeah
and uh but uh letterman starts pretty late out here about twelve o'clock
but i'll still watch it once in a while
well i i tend to be a a uh sports news and uh not very many of the modern sitcoms what about what about yourself
yes
uh_huh
well what i find is that outside of uh well sports because i'm a sports fan is the the ones that i do watch is uh saturday night live
except i i wish they didn't have so many reruns and otherwise we're caught up with uh because we are pretty good at sitting down to dinner in the six to seven o'clock period
uh good ole wheel of fortune
which is uh an interesting combination of a a lot of luck
and uh the
it's probably as good a program as any for the audience to play along and see if you think you're smart or smarter then then those folks are
uh i have a family that is very much into sitcoms and and i have to at six o'clock uh fight getting the news
on versus uh having the channel changed on me because they want to watch cosby or one of the other ones that are running on one of the uh the off channels
uh_huh
yeah
certainly more educational then wheel of fortune
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i find that it seems to me
and uh maybe this is as you get older
i'm in my mid forties now
but uh uh i guess from my vantage point i think the quality of t v has gone down or else my interests have changed
because there were there were various series over the years that i would always make sure that i watched and yet i find that now
uh there's hardly anything that that except saturday night live that [draws] me to say i want to try to watch that
i may watch something just because it's on
but i uh i tend to go more to the educational channels if there's uh something that seems interesting there
i just uh
as i say don't find the modern sitcom very uh well just very appealing to my interests
yeah
do you get a
and e
because that's one we don't have cable
so uh there's a few things i miss because i don't have cable
and a and e is one whenever i'm on a business trip
and they have it
i find that it has things that are uh that interest me they have a lot of series uh i guess i'm into uh i'm a history buff
so
with all their reruns of uh the [aviators] over the ages
and uh who built what planes and all that was uh that type of stuff interests me
huh
yeah
i guess that varies from place to place being in the dallas area because we have we have about seven without uh cable
and then with cable
who knows how many you can get
seven seems enough
uh i've read a little bit about it
but uh i haven't i don't even know if it's running here in dallas
it kind of shows the level of interest
i have in looking at the t v schedule what time's it on there
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well they do
but it it's amazing these days if something isn't making it the word of mouth uh of people talking to each other can cause a program which gets bad reviews to uh to uh not last for very long
and even though they did
invest money in it
that they uh
it's i think the comparison is like baseball managers this year
they seem to uh say two weeks in uh you've had your chance time to uh since you aren't making it we're going to find somebody else
well what's your favorite shows
huh
that's one of my favorite
yeah
mystery
and uh masterpiece theater
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i don't not anymore
i don't
there's just nothing on it
i got i got sort of hooked on that uh dark [shadows] yeah
i when i watched it originally i didn't know it was a i don't know
it was going to be a series
i thought it was just a movie
and so i started watching it
and all of a sudden stay tuned next week
and i went what
and then it blows into this whole series thing
so i sort of had to stay with it
not really
it it it's it's gotten to the point
it's getting ridiculous now
and they they just had the uh season finale
and i don't i don't know what they accomplished
but i think the writers just figure well let's just do anything
and we'll we'll have a couple of months to come up with some new ideas
yeah
yeah
yeah
i don't like programs that i can figure it out
um the only one that i watch religiously is l a law
i really like that
yeah
that's that's my favorite
well i'm i'm a struggling law student
and i
the reason i like it is because they give you good law in there
yeah
it's not like these other programs where they just make up anything they want
and they they throw little tidbits out that are really good
uh_huh
of course i mean it's got its bad side
so it's limited by the format
obviously you don't get into court as quickly as they seem to make it out that you do
i mean they're they're in california
and they're they're waiting list is about four years four or five years for a civil case
so uh i mean you know it's very difficult to
yeah
it would yeah
no
not at all
you know the wheels of justice grind slowly yeah
i'll agree with you there
i'll agree with you
i know i know the [shortcomings] too
oh well not in that that's not on my
that's not on my list of
now there was some of the some of the classes
i'm in i think i'm in sesame street
but uh some of the professors i think imitate big bird
that's it
i mean big bird would make a good judge better than some of the judges i've seen
yeah
i've got my own pet peeve about judges but uh-oh
well we're stuck with them
sort of like lawyers you know
um let's see what else is
oh i like a and e
they don't have a
and e on cable in dallas
oh
oh
oh
yeah
i'll tell you
the um uh a
and e and discovery and c n n
i couldn't i couldn't live without those
oh yeah
i i just leave it when i'm home during the day
i just leave it on just to listen to it
yeah
the best coverage
yeah
uh the networks got sort of ridiculous
with they they they felt like they had to interrupt normal programming for all this
but they didn't have anything to say
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
well the coverage was a little bit ridiculous anyway
i mean it it it got far more coverage than it should have i
it was it was beautifully played out thing i mean it it [roused] the [patriotism] of the of the country and all that sort of stuff
and
yeah
exactly
i mean
and sometimes they they would now i like jeopardy and jeopardy comes on
here at seven o'clock
and for
i don't know it much have been two or three weeks there they were doing this expanded nightly news
you know
and i'm going i will never get to see jeopardy again
yeah
i'm saying what are you telling me that you didn't tell me in your first half hour
nothing
yeah
oh well there goes a patriot missile oh well that's good
that's good
yeah
oh boy
golly gee
yeah
we are
yeah
well it was it was no
i mean there there was nothing to it i mean i mean yeah
i'm happy
for that
i'm happy for that
but but unfortunately i sort of had the inside track
because i'd been in the i'd been in the military for thirteen years
and i worked in intelligence
and and there was no
yes
another one of those military intelligence ha ha that's what that's just like justice for all
but i mean my goodness
there's they're sitting here making all this big deal out of the iranians
and i'm sitting there thinking to myself uh_huh
sure
i mean they've poured billions of dollars into this stuff
but the stupid people can't read comic strips i mean
how do you expect them to operate tanks yeah
i mean they can't even read their own language
yeah
a
it just totally ridiculous
i mean the israeli's could have fixed the whole problem years ago
if they just sent sent their guys in there and killed saddam that's right
i mean the israeli's they're not afraid of anything
see what happens when they when they take a plane load of their citizens down in
that doesn't uh that doesn't that situation doesn't sit around and develop very long
all right
i i i think everybody's jumping to conclusions i don't think anything's going to change
no
first off
i don't think that the middle eastern situation's going to change
i don't think that
they're not yeah
they're not going to come up with a peace plan or any of this kind of crap
uh_huh
yeah
well they they they get
[oshmid] [aukomo] you know the janitor for the u s [embassy] and you know
yeah
really
and it was it was it was even worse here in north carolina
because because a lot of the matter of fact all the units the marines and and uh the f the f sixteen squadrons came out of north carolina
so every night on the local news they were down in fayetteville
or they were down in [goldsboro] and they were talking to the military wives you know
and and i and i understand the way they feel about their husbands and wives being over there
and all that
but to get on camera and just oh this is so terrible
i just i don't what we're going to do
i'm thinking to myself you know
what do they people think they were getting into when they joined the military you know i'm going it
what did you think it was a paycheck
you know run around and then play soldier
well the [reservists] sure do
we had a [reservist] here in north carolina who who who's unit was ordered up and he refused to go
i hope he got busted
yeah
the this this guy did too
he ended up going to leavenworth which is good
i'm glad huh_uh
that's right
and then she didn't want to do her obligation yeah
well i uh you know i'm not i'm not racist or anything
but one of my one another one of my pet peeves is they had a lot of black
on the news talking about how unfair it is because the blacks are poor and therefore they don't have a choice
but go in the military
so there's more of them getting killed than the whites
uh probably l a law
i don't know
i like all the court cases
and uh the romance between everybody
and what about you
oh okay
my fiancee likes that
yeah
yeah
she likes that too
we always have to tape all those on fridays
oh yeah
america's favorite home videos
yeah
that's my
yeah
that's all right
i like the price is right too
but i never get a chance to watch it
no
huh_uh
yeah
i'm always gone at eleven
yeah
or i just miss it
yeah
i used to watch it all the time though
i never missed it
no
i never heard of that
oh wait is that on like at nine or ten or something
yeah
yeah
i've watched that before
it's all right
oh okay
i've never seen that
oh
so i'll have to watch it tonight
yeah
i usually have the t v just for background noise all the time
yeah
i don't i don't think it's ever off
yeah
i just turned it off when the phone rang
no
i can't stand those
oh wow
that's that's odd
two people actually don't like them
yeah
i think they're the [stupidest] shows
yeah
yeah
that's all right sixty minutes is okay
oh really
oh that's a good idea
so [television's] actually useful
yeah
it seems like we have cable
and there's never anything on
we just have more of nothing
oh it comes with our apartment
so you're not
huh
no
huh_uh
i'm in pennsylvania
oh
huh
no
we asked to have cable clear up in the mountains and you can't get anything
and
but there's nothing on t v ever hardly oh we we can't get anything we can get like one
without it
it's all right
i don't think it's that bad
but there's never anything on
it's just background noise again
oh
right in the middle
yeah
center county
yeah
we don't have any t v stations in this city
so they're all from other cities
yeah
i guess we watch a lot of c n n too
yeah
but it always repeats like every half hour
so we watch the same thing
every half hour
yeah
yeah
yeah
after like an hour or so you just watch everything again and again and again
yeah
yeah
then you get sick of watching like man not this story again
you don't pay attention to anything
no
i like [laurel] and hardy though
yeah
i never got into them much
yeah
i like the road runner cartoons
yeah
yeah
they're not on that often though
least not around here
yeah
i guess no one will be watching that anymore
yeah
that's what he started doing anyway
yeah
yeah
i wasn't too surprised either didn't look like him though
all the pictures
yeah
i've seen that show twice
and it was the same one both times
well my family moved to texas about eight years ago  
my husband was raised here by  
i i have never lived here  
so um when we came back to texas i was really kind of excited  
there wasn't a state income tax  
and there wasn't a tax on food that we purchased at the the grocery store and things  
and all of that was new to me  
because i'm sort of feeling like we're getting a better deal here than what i was accustomed to  
well i lived in missouri and then in utah  
and them um both places had pretty good state income tax  
and um we've always paid tax you know on everything we purchased even food at the grocery store  
so i thought it was really you know kind of a pretty good deal not to have to pay tax on your groceries  
and but i think i mean i don't enjoy paying taxes  
and it's hard  
but um i think that is what we have to have you know have our streets and have have our government and excuse me and have and have the services that we need  
and we have to pay for them and pay for the employment of the people that run them and and things like that  
and i think i guess what i feel is that most people um they don't like to pay taxes because they feel like there's some people that aren't paying their fair share  
and um that makes you feel bad  
right  
and you know when um when last year the elections were going on the governors election and state and you know  
i i didn't have anything against [clayton] williams personally or anything  
but um it was kind of hard for me to think here's someone as wealthy as he is  
didn't have to pay any income tax  
that he said that year  
he claimed he had he didn't have to pay income tax  
and he thought you know  
there's some people are living pretty pretty good life styles  
but they're not paying income tax  
and that's not fair   to me  
and there's you know some people you know who are abusing the systems that we pay taxes to support  
and all that makes us feel bad  
but i think all in all how i feel is that um i'm willing to pay the taxes because i think i like our country compared to the other countries i've studied and visited  
and i'm willing to pay extra to live here and to enjoy the services that i enjoy  
how do you feel  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh no  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
right  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yes  
well it is  
and sometimes i think um well for myself that income that we have we pay a certain salary  
but i think the employer keeps in mind this will be deducted you know  
so so many taxes will be deducted from it  
and so i think you know our salaries are a little bit higher because we have to pay taxes on it  
and so i think you know in that way we're compensated um just by our society um  
yet you know they don't pay you um what just what it would take  
and if you pay taxes on it you wouldn't have any money left over  
and and um but some of the people that make a great deal of money and everything i wish that they would i guess because i'm not one of them   i wish that they would you know realize that they they couldn't make this kind of money  
they couldn't live that kind of life style anywhere else  
in that  
even if they made that kind of money there's some countries that have like fifty percent income tax you know that have   socialized medicines and things that  
they um they wouldn't be able to enjoy the in that  
so that you know they need to be willing to pay a little bit more for it  
yes  
they've earned it  
and yes  
they have such great fortune here  
but they need to pay for it too because they couldn't do it somewhere else  
um i like texas um not having the state income tax  
and i hope that  
because um we've had enough industry here that i guess it  
is that why we don't have  
industry here is able to to fund the state because we have oil here and things  
i mean that's what i've always heard  
is that um  
big boom  
yeah  
there's something about um the industry in the state   that um  
there's enough  
i know we moved here from houston  
and the city had enough money  
it was really nice that they had um that  
they began to cut back because of the oil problems  
but um they would have um so many community outdoor theaters and   and like uh community country club type things  
that the  
it was such nice services to offer the residents in the city  
and i really liked that  
huh_uh  
yeah  
that's true  
and i you know like  
the property tax that we pay is so much higher than my parents pay in missouri  
but um i'm i'm comfortable at least in this year with with  
we have some good schools  
the school thing might be changing  
but   i'm willing to pay for that for my children  
and i'm willing to sacrifice i guess  
i'm not going to be the type of person that's going to [grumble] about the taxes even though we're paying a pretty high percentage  
i feel like you get what you pay for  
and i want to be here  
and i enjoy i enjoy living here in this country  
and having seen other countries i'd much rather live here and pay taxes   than live somewhere else and not  
anyway well i guess i better let you go  
yeah  
it was nice  
no  
no  
they just define it to you  
and so   you get what uh get luck of the draw  
but  
yeah  
anyway well good luck to you  
bye  
huh_uh  
yeah  
did you move from the northeast  
yeah  
i think  
yeah  
people that can really influence the government have all the money to throw  
no  
well yeah  
i agree that you have to pay taxes for the services you get  
and   and i think that you know i don't think that there's any really any system that everybody would think is fair as far as being taxed  
so i guess in texas with  
we live here also  
and that it's mostly sales tax  
so it's really the people that have money to buy things are paying the more because they're paying the sales tax on the larger items that they buy and stuff  
i've lived in texas most of my life  
we um lived in kansas city for a couple of years  
and we were kind of in for a rude awakening  
they had personal property taxes on like cars  
and the first year we were there it was kind of like eight hundred dollars  
and we're like  
my husband says i used to complain to pay sixty dollars to get licensed in texas  
and now   you know  
so i mean that was kind of different  
and then to file a a state income tax was also kind of tough too  
i guess since we've been married we've moved a lot  
so it always seems like you know we're always paying taxes for something  
and it was kind of nice this year to finally be able to get a little money back  
but   i um have a accounting background  
so i then have also done tax returns in the past for other people when i worked for an accounting firm  
and uh you know it is kind of sad to see how the people that have the resources to hire somebody and have the money to spend to put there money in places they don't have to pay taxes  
or to buy something that loses money so that they can offset the income that they get or whatever  
so you know i think if i can understand why the rich people don't want to pay   you know a large large percent  
because you know that's not really fair either  
if they've earned money by themselves well you know people just kind of given the money  
it's kind of depressing sometimes i think  
yeah  
well yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they must have enough other stuff because the way the oil has been the last few years that that really has not been   the industry that is bringing in the money for the taxes i wouldn't think  
yeah  
huh_uh  
don't you have to  
why people decided to expect certain services  
then they don't really think they should pay for them maybe  
i don't know  
yeah  
huh_uh  
well it was nice talking to you  
i haven't ever i need i've never initiated one of these phone calls  
do you call in  
do you get to pick the subject  
or  
oh  
i see  
yeah  
okay  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
let's see  
i think uh  
i guess if i call i'm supposed to start  
i think uh that's the way everybody has done it so far  
but anyway i think that um we are paying a lot in taxes  
but i think that we have a government and we have a lot of freedoms and we have a lot of things that the governments do with our money  
um we're probably one of the the only countries in the world that has all the things that we have  
the you know  
as far as the quality of the streets the school systems um the hospital stuff that the government gives money to um the you know all the things that the government does like that i uh i think they need to manage it a little bit better  
but i don't think uh anybody is just going to come in and fix it in a couple of weeks because they've been messing it up for many years now  
so  
yeah  
huh_uh  
right  
i think it's seven here  
seven point something  
huh_uh  
yeah  
right  
where are you at  
what state  
oh really  
yeah  
there's  
we're still we're still one of few that don't have the uh state tax  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
i do  
i've lived in in the dallas area here since i was like four  
so uh it's i don't know an urban area i guess  
whatever  
i don't know  
yeah  
no  
no  
i've just lived here  
but i don't know  
i do  
i can think of all the biblical things about it too  
where what did they say to uh  
i can't think of the [scripture]  
render unto caesar's what is caesar's  
so you know even even in the story where they had to pay the taxes the [disciples]   and uh jesus said the money in the fishes mouth or in the fisher inside the fish  
and uh i thought of those two things when i was i was holding for a long time  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
oh sure  
sure  
right  
yeah  
are  
no  
not really  
i've i spends a lot of time with our income tax though this especially this year and last year  
um i have been married for just a few years  
so i've had to really switch around from the e z form to the uh  
right  
all the deductions and all that  
yeah  
it really did  
i i saw that too  
right  
right  
we're looking at buying a house  
and that was one of the main pluses that we have about buying a house  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
there's a thing i just  
i've been trying to learn as much as i can about it  
if you pay  
i know i get paid twice a month every two weeks  
that's once a month  
well i get twenty six paychecks   which would come out to be in thirteen months  
so if you pay your rent or your house payment every two weeks   instead of once a month you'll come out paying a uh one month extra every year  
and it will if have you a thirty year note it will take like seven or plus years off of your note  
oh yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
and that's going on the principle  
it doesn't pay any interest  
or   usually it doesn't  
yeah  
huh_uh  
right  
that's what we're looking at fifteen or maybe twenty  
we're not going to go longer than twenty  
but we're taking our time  
we're going to try to make our decision by july  
well we just started two or three weeks ago  
and we're not going to just kill ourselves  
just two or three houses a week at the most  
yeah  
absolutely  
yeah  
credit union has nine percent interest  
yeah  
so that's  
i don't know  
we couldn't think of a better time to buy than now  
but anyway well um i can't think of a whole lot more to say  
yeah  
me too  
yeah  
same here  
my wife uh she went to uh the school out there in lubbock  
she was there for two or three years before we got married  
i guess before i even met her  
okay  
but anyway  
she went to school there  
cathy walker  
yeah  
yeah  
thanks a lot  
you y'all work at t i  
you do  
oh really  
that's interesting  
i work in the [waiver]  
oh really  
yeah  
oh wow  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm uh turning in a capital request right now  
yeah  
that's funny that's where you're from  
a machine that puts back grind tape on and off the waivers  
yeah  
i'm i'm sort of an acting process engineer  
not officially  
but that's pretty much what i do  
yeah  
right  
and  
uh-oh i like him  
he's hard  
but we needed that  
yeah  
he's  
yeah  
that's that's what he said here  
he's gotten us into a [linear] flow that we've never been in before  
that's been a real big plus  
he's broadened our um the devices that we're making too   which has made us as lot more stable  
anyway well it was nice to talk to you  
they're are going to interrupt us any minute now  
i can tell  
okay  
yeah  
me too  
you too  
bye  
okay  
i have to agree that  
and you're right  
we i mean we you know we do have a good government  
we do have a lot of things that you know that you know the taxes are there to support  
but i do think they're [mismanaged]  
and i think that sometimes it's too easy of a i don't know to easy of an answer  
it seems to say i'll tax them if you can't get enough money instead of trying to figure out how to cut budgets or cut spending or or you know get all of the waste out of the spending  
uh i don't know what y'all are paying in dallas  
but you know it seems like we pay the state  
you know there's a  
the taxes set by you know the state and the city can add theirs  
and the county adds theirs  
and you know we're paying almost eight percent sales tax right now which seems to me nuts  
i came from california  
and you know when i left there we paid six cents on the dollar  
and that was like one of the highest in the nation  
yeah  
yeah  
ourselves is seven point seven five  
whole state  
it drives me crazy  
i'm thinking you know everybody is sitting here screaming about we don't want a state income tax  
but yet they allow the sales tax to go up and up and up and up  
and they don't do anything about it   you know  
i'm in lubbock texas  
yeah  
that's true  
and i did pay state tax in california  
but my goodness  
that that  
the what did you call it the sales tax is just getting outrageous to pay  
you don't sound like you're from dallas  
where do you do you come from originally  
texas  
oh okay  
you just you just managed to escape the real texan accent  
i thought maybe you had come from somewhere else and had some experience with taxes there  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
oh were you really   trying to find someone at home  
well you know um back then what they tried to do you know  
the would always try to stump jesus try to give him something that would [contradict] himself  
and so that's what they were trying to do with the tax situation  
and of course that's when he said well you render unto caesar's what is caesar's  
you render unto god what is god's  
and uh you know of course there  
i don't think they really cared about the answer  
they just wanted to try and catch him in something  
but but i believe in paying taxes  
and i mean yeah  
like everybody else i try to take as many deductions as i can  
you know i don't want to pay more than i have to  
and i get outraged when i feel like they go up for useless reasons  
but i believe that they're necessary  
so i really do  
do you do you deal with taxes much in what you do when you work  
or  
schedule a  
well yeah  
did you notice that when they passed the new simplified tax act it seemed like it made everything harder  
i didn't notice anything simplified about it except that they took away the deductions   the interest and   other things  
yeah  
and it will help tremendously  
we bought ours five years ago  
and it's  
the one thing  
it seems like you make those payments every month  
and at the end of the year you've paid all interest and no principles  
so that will definitely help in taxes and what you will get back  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
that's right  
huh_uh  
that's right  
that's right  
my parents uh bought a home in san diego about four or five years ago  
and they did that  
they thought their payment was automatically taken out like every other wednesday  
and that's exactly right  
everyone  
though the note is thirty years she said it's going be paid off in twenty or twenty one years   or something like that  
just because of exactly what you said  
you're making one more months payment every year  
yeah  
so   that's a good way to do it  
and when we bought this house we looked at doing a fifteen year note because it added more to the payment   but not significant amounts you know  
it was a good payoff for being able to pay it off sooner  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's good though  
yeah  
well that's good though  
is it kind of a [buyers] market down there  
well that's good  
that's pretty excellent  
that's good  
well i can't either  
i appreciate the call though  
i enjoyed talking to you  
in lubbock  
just a second  
go ahead  
so she was at school out here  
well what was her name  
no  
i didn't know any [walker's]  
well good luck in your house hunting  
i do  
yeah  
i'm in human resources  
yeah  
do you really  
because that's  
i work with [elma]  
yeah  
and i used to work  
i i did all of their capital and financial planning for about eight years  
and then i have been in human resources for the last two years  
and i work with those same people all those nine years  
so   i feel kind of part of the staff  
you are  
what are trying to get  
oh  
okay  
so you work in back grind  
oh okay  
that's what you do uh  
and do you  
well good deal  
what did you think of sam  
well that's good  
he was very good for lubbock when he came to you know  
it was the same kind of thing  
he had a lot of good results  
good  
well good  
good  
oh okay  
well that's good  
well you too  
and  
well i know they will  
and besides my daughter wants me to put her to bed  
well have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
well uh what do you think about taxes  
do you think we're paying too much  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
how true  
yeah  
well gasoline especially in this part of the country we all use it all the time you know  
it's that's not what i would consider a luxury  
yeah  
well um i i think that we probably are paying a little too much tax considering what we're getting for it and how it's being managed and so forth  
i mean i i think there could be a better system  
and we would get more for our money  
it's totally out of our hands  
so we don't we can't really do a whole lot about how that money is spent and where it goes  
and uh  
but not really  
yeah  
well i think too  
one of the things that rubs me the wrong way the most is those programs that are funded by congress and uh that don't seem to have any validity at all  
i mean they're always far out  
and uh you know they're studying some obscure bug you know   in some other part of the world or some such thing  
and our tax money pays for those things  
and i think that's wrong  
i  
that's right  
yeah  
and i think here lately they've been saying quite often and maybe somebody's coming to realize we're the nation in trouble  
the war  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i think that's a mistake  
somewhere you know we have to realize that we can't just keep giving it away  
we know what trouble they got into  
yeah  
well i i think another thing too that um i've had a little contacted with uh  
in regard to taxes let's say that uh you have something that the i r s [disagrees] with or you know says hey we're not going to allow that  
well i think they're very unfair in the amount of penalties and interest that they can attach to that because you you will not only [payback] that that you wrote off  
but you will at least double that amount  
and  
yes  
and that's to me there's something wrong there you know  
yeah  
i mean i can see paying the interest and some small penalty  
but they really stick it to you big time  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's a lot  
well i haven't counted  
i i would have [guessed] eight even  
but you might be right  
i don't have any idea  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i have another thing that i thought about too for instance when you try to save money and you earn interest on whatever your investment is  
and you know we're not typically talking about big dollars  
but here you feel like you've you've done something good  
you've you've earned your interest  
and then you have to go back and pay taxes on it  
so the real amount of your savings on that is is not much  
you know it's kind of a vicious circle there  
and then   at a took that away as far as being  
yeah  
huh_uh  
well you can come over to my house and spend it  
i wish i had some to spend  
no  
no  
i just don't have any  
yeah  
that's the way it goes  
well i guess we probably talked just about long enough  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh i don't know  
you too  
okay  
good bye  
there we go  
yes and no  
income tax no  
i uh i look at it this way uh you've got to pay for the privilege of living here  
but uh being a uh a rec vehicle owner  
well in fact i live in a motor home  
i'm a what they call a full timer  
and uh it burns gas like crazy  
i only get seven miles to the gallon  
i really resent this fact that they keep adding on gasoline taxes  
and they call it uh uh  
what's the word they use  
anyway a a luxury tax  
they add it on on to tires and gasoline cigarettes liquor  
it doesn't bother me any because i've quit drinking  
and i quit smoking  
so that doesn't bother me  
but i don't think it's fair  
it's too um um it's attacking just certain people  
even with the gasoline tax  
no  
uh fifty years ago the automobile was a luxury  
but it's a necessity today  
and uh as hard as they try to get these public transit things going i have never seen nor heard of one that really got of the ground   or that accomplish what they set out to to accomplish  
what are your feelings on it  
yeah  
that that's that's so true  
i mean they say well you voice your opinion uh uh uh on election day  
no  
you don't  
look what happened on the last presidential election  
read my lips  
and what happened they turned around and double crossed us  
so uh i mean you can't believe what you hear  
oh  
uh yes  
i agree  
and and uh i i also think we extend too much help to other uh countries  
we need enough help here in this country  
they're still people starving people here  
why should we help starving people somewhere else  
absolutely  
now i can't wait for uh  
i i could just picture what's going to happen here in the not to distant future  
we keep hearing well we're going to receive uh eight billion dollars from japan for the uh uh_huh the the the big   war over there in the mideast  
and uh so many billions of dollars here and there and everything  
and uh the next thing you know we'll be turning around just like we did to poland  
and say well just forget it  
oh definitely  
well another thing now they keep [decontrolling] different things  
first it was the airlines then it was banks and and uh um savings association   and whatnot  
exactly  
and the same with the airlines back in the days when they were uh controlled and and uh [transcontinental] or um um interstate uh trucking  
i mean as soon as the federal government gave up control on all that they just went to hell in a hand basket  
prices went sky high  
then in in the case of airlines of course they became highly competitive  
and they cut each others [throats] until they're they reach the point where they're cutting their own throat  
and uh well of course that's getting away from taxes isn't it  
that's government controlled  
but uh  
oh by the time you get through with the uh   the penalties  
uh i agree  
i think the i r s is uh just too powerful  
there should be some sort of a control on it  
and they should be a little more humane  
uh the uh typical bureaucratic i guess that's that's one of my pet peeves  
i came up with a brilliant idea how we could reduce the the budget  
very simple  
give uh uh uh government employees the average number of uh holidays as the uh   private industry  
i mean you think about it now  
they they get about sixteen holidays a year  
it sure is  
and i think here at t i we get what is it nine or ten  
well i remember uh uh  
thinking i think it was the last time i did hear that we get about the average  
maybe even a little more a day or so more than the average  
but uh government is ridiculous  
just think of the money they could save  
i mean they're they're paying out this money anyway  
why not get the work out of the people  
and well anyway that would of course eventually come back to taxes  
but uh as far as income tax is concerned i can't complain too much about it  
uh i'm single  
i have no uh dependents or anything  
my children are all grown  
and they're out worrying about their own income taxes  
uh very true  
that's  
and then they tell you to uh well invest it in uh is it i r a or something  
and and   when you turn   when you turn sixty five why then you pay the tax on it  
and the tax is a lot less  
but in the mean time you've got your money [tide] up in a low relatively low interest bearing investment  
i mean it's not making ten fifteen percent like a business is today  
uh me i'm a firm believer in that if you got it spend it  
well you   well do you do you need some help spending yours  
oh uh_huh  
well that's my problem too  
i'm i'm trying to figure out from one payday to the next whose going to be the lucky one this month that's going to get paid  
uh_huh  
uh let me ask you something  
did you get a catalog or something from these people  
you did  
i've everybody i've talked to has received one  
but i haven't gotten mine  
um well anyway ellen it was nice talking to you  
and uh until next time  
bye bye  
i think we're [overtaxed] to the [hilt]  
yeah  
i mean we're we're taxed on taxes  
and um uh most all government [entities] are just trying to give us a state income tax for those who don't have it that is  
i mean we don't have one yet  
but eventually they may try to push it through  
no no state income tax  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think what needs to be done is they need to control their spending habits  
right  
yeah  
well we're really [overburdened] from federal state and local   that it takes such a size out of your paycheck that there's not a whole lot you can always do with your paycheck  
uh_huh  
well they're kind of put into a trap of being out there to please the special interest groups as well  
and uh i think the only way that can be changed for us to get a a better tax revenue that's [fairness] and all is for us to limit their terms  
and by doing so they're not obligated to anybody  
and uh i don't know how we're going to do that right away though  
but what what in general though that taxes are doing to us is it's just taking uh a bite out of our savings  
yeah  
and i believe the social security tax is a great scheme  
yeah  
it's uh you know  
right now they're robbing from it to pad the federal deficit  
yeah  
that's illegal see  
if uh most company uh c e o were to do that within their private company they'd be in jail  
so how are we letting them get away with it  
right  
yeah  
a lot of people have become too complacent and believe everything is just the norm as to the way things are going and feel absolutely [helpless] to oppose a lot of the situations going on   in the taxing system  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well there's no quick solution or no sure fire easy answer  
it's just going to take uh uh really uh uh uh a combination effort i think of the majority of the american people to come to a [decisive] answer   or vote to limit the way it's spent  
see we we're we have no say so as to where the money goes in the first place  
right  
and they are controlled or pretty much do what they want to do  
well they feel [invulnerable] to uh any [wrath]  
or   uh it's it's occurred so many times that they figure people will usually forget and don't think about it when the election time [arises]  
and generally it does work out that way  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well when you get out into the real world then you'll know  
yeah  
bonus time  
you have a bonus  
oh  
uh_huh  
so you're taxed on the bonuses too  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh sales is lucrative  
but then you're paying really high taxes when you're doing a lucrative job  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i have i guess about said what all i can think of to say  
yeah  
it's a rather touchy topic at that  
but  
well that's great  
you too  
and uh  
have a good day  
so uh what do you think  
yeah  
oh really  
so they have  
i didn't realize they had no state tax in texas  
oh that's great because they don't have it in florida  
in new york they have it  
i mean you know like i say i'm in new york  
and we have a state tax as well  
so that just cuts even more  
right  
i i think that i  
i mean i wouldn't be so upset about the amount of taxes paid if it weren't for the fact that they don't they don't go to any place  
you know you don't see it going to any place where it belongs  
i think if it were to be uh if it were to be um if it were to be hold hold on a second please someone just walked in the   if if it were to be spent in the right way i think i wouldn't be so upset about it  
but given that it that it's not spent properly i think it's a major problem  
uh_huh  
well that's certainly true  
well what is it they were just talking about um sort of middle income you know how how middle income people  
what winds up happening is for instance having kids you know they wind up having kids as a deduction  
and after but the deduction is so little for kids that they wind up having to pay more in taxes than it costs to raise a kid for the year or something  
i think  
so they want to you know try i think they're trying  
i think i think that most of the politicians understand this  
they just don't they're just not very good at doing what they're supposed to be doing  
right  
uh_huh  
i agree  
i agree  
right  
exactly  
and then and then uh i'm i'm just not sure if i see you know if i see it going like i say to the right places  
i mean it'd be it'd be one thing if it were taking a bite out of your savings and then you were getting it all back when you got older  
you know but i'm not convinced that's that social security is doing as well as it should and you know and and and uh and and that you know those people who need it for welfare and so forth who really need it for welfare not the eighty five to ninety percent of them who don't need it but i mean the real people who really need it you know should be getting it  
but instead i think it's going to the wrong places  
you think so  
i know  
and that scares the hell out of me  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't i don't  
well because they're the ones who make the laws   so who's going to yell at them you know  
it'd be nice if we sort of as one band together  
and and uh and an performed a citizens arrest i guess  
to see if we could sort of clean them up  
and you know but i don't know if we can do that or not  
uh_huh  
i agree  
i agree  
but um yeah  
like like you said i wonder you know if if it's certainly not going to be a slow change process  
and i wonder if it'll ever be a change process  
i sort of i sort of get discouraged when i think about all the things that i think are wrong  
you know all those things that really could be changed that aren't you know that that aren't  
and tax is one of those things that just sort of sits way up there on the list  
so i don't  
i i i have no idea what to do about it  
yeah  
right  
we don't  
i mean the only say so we have is supposedly by [electing] people who we think are going to vote one way of another  
right  
i've never quite understood that i've never uh you know even though um i i've never been uh sort of politically minded  
but it's never been clear to me as to sort of um you know how congressmen an can can just sort of go ahead and vote their own conscience as their own ideas when clearly their constituency doesn't back them up on anything you know  
and often times that will happen  
right  
right  
they do forget it's true because everybody  
think of what happens is whenever the whenever the one who made that supposed mistake turns around  
and uh his his or her opponent can say well look they did this  
and they can turn around and say well my opponent did this  
so it becomes uh a general battle of the sort of the election of the lesser of two evils i think  
so  
i don't know  
i just uh i'm unhappy with it  
but  
and well i'm i'm sort of [semifortunate] right now  
i'm a graduate student  
so i don't make that much  
and what i make isn't taxed very highly because i'm still in school  
but it's my my my wife has a real job  
and you know when i get her job um you know we we look at her paycheck i'm just [floored] when i see how little of it we're actually allowed to keep  
especially around bonus time  
bonus  
she  
no  
my my wife does  
my  
i  
no  
graduate students don't get bonuses  
we're lucky to get paychecks the way i figure  
my my wife is taxed on her bonus as well  
and that's a that's usually a big chunk of her bonus check actually  
i mean her bonus isn't that much  
but they tax it as  
i i guess they tax it as if that were her weekly check or something  
so she gets destroyed on her bonus check  
so she works with in in in sales  
so a good portion of her you know her salary is is [quarterly] bonuses  
yes  
well yeah  
she's not entirely sales so it isn't it isn't as lucrative as one would hope  
but it it keeps us supported temporarily   until i can get a real salary and then get taxed more  
so i don't know  
i i guess i guess at this point in time we're just sort of going to have to live with it and hope that it gets better  
same here  
tough topic  
so  
i  
i i i do agree with you most most wholeheartedly  
it's been a pleasure talking with you  
thanks for call  
you too  
bye bye  
i pay a good deal of taxes i guess because i i make a fair amount of money  
and uh the taxes that i pay um i guess as a as a general statement i feel i i guess i get my money's worth for  
i'm not sure though whether i feel  
i guess i am sure that i feel that in general though uh the [allocation] uh of the taxes in certain areas isn't correct  
well i i  
lately i guess um uh or at least for the last twenty years or so i've felt that the expenditures of our taxes into high cost uh defense items at least in the last ten years have been uh  
there's been and extraordinary amount of money spent there  
and i'm not really sure that that we've gotten our money's worth there uh regardless of the outcome of the desert storm uh   desert shield uh situations  
uh i guess my particular beef is that having participated in the military off and on over the over the years of being called back and things of that nature is uh i've found that you know there's an extraordinary amount of waste  
i take that as a as a given in any military operation  
and  
yeah  
and i  
i i should imagine that that that what the what the problem  
why i i'm i'm a little concerned about today is that this uh rather uh quick and and easy i don't know i shouldn't say easy rather quick [victory] in the in in the uh mideast uh uh over the uh iraqis uh might lead us into uh a false sense of security that we can do that against any other foe  
i'm i i don't know what other foe that would be  
but uh i i'm just getting nervous again now hearing the voices come up that there has to be increased expenditures in that area  
yeah  
but it it it  
would that be uh  
well let's see  
two thousand out of eleven thousand that's about a little over twenty per cent uh  
i i should imagine that that would be to keep it at a level those levels i guess that that were originally [appropriated] was when the soviet threat i guess was perceived as being a greater one  
i don't think there's very much of a threat there today  
i do worry about what nuclear weapons are left in the territories uh in their territory over there and who's controlling them  
but  
i i don't know what amount of what amount of our hardware would stop some fanatic i guess from doing anything uh that would be irrational  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
oh what is the name of that  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
well uh i'm  
what i'm  
uh i guess uh it  
concerned about  
talking about the taxes in general and that that was an area that i i perceive as not being the best expenditure for the amount of dollar that we're taxed for uh in the area of defense  
or perhaps we have paid too much there  
i don't know  
it just seems to me that over the years now the  
and and it's it's a cliche  
i i  
but i see it myself  
i see where the infrastructure is sort of breaking down the roads the highways  
i i i don't know uh  
i i'm familiar with some some upbeat school areas  
so i don't totally agree with the the great uh uh with the with the great expenditure of effort and time there  
but i guess overall because i guess i'm not associated with what ghetto schools and and uh and uh rural school systems are like i i should imagine that would take an enormous expenditure  
uh_huh  
they they don't have a broad based income tax that funds the educational system  
or is it all funded out of local taxes  
yeah  
sounds like the way the federal and state system works now  
yeah  
uh do you mean a a complete [reversal]   because i guess they can't raise that money in those those poorer districts huh  
yeah  
yes  
i see what you're saying  
uh i uh i i do i i guess i am a uh a strong and [staunch] supporter of some subsidy for any forms of education  
i mean by that i mean i'm a product myself  
i have uh a a a a background of uh being uh getting my college education through the g i bill  
what  
but uh when i look at it to me uh it doesn't really make any difference  
it was a marvelous opportunity that i couldn't have done  
i don't think i would have gone on unless i had that financial   uh [easement] made possible  
and i i don't really care what it takes to qualify whether you're uh an an whether you're a veteran or whether you  
i don't even know if you have to perform community service  
or unless uh or or you promise to even do something in the future i think that uh the that that the subsidy itself  
or i guess the [enactment] of that form of legislation   would give many people who i i think i think i perceive the fact  
at least what i read is that some younger people feel that education is priced out of their uh out of their uh budget  
i know in the state of florida just today uh the the legislature uh [adjourned]  
and uh they had completed a fifteen per cent increase in the in the uh state land grant colleges which which isn't i mean  
to me it doesn't sound like a lot of money  
but i guess it would be for fifteen hundred dollars a year  
they went from eleven to fifteen hundred  
and uh for an out of state student the tuition went up twenty five per cent  
i don't know what that would be  
but that uh i guess that goes along with the general idea that the federal government had to uh was [expending] so much money on defense uh that that the program now is a uh program now is uh  
fees that that fund these things i guess that's [trickled] down to the states  
and   the states now establish uh don't have enough money  
so they they must charge fees uh  
i i'm not too sure of that reasoning  
but i guess to get back to the main topic i don't know whether i pay too much taxes  
i i i travel extensively in europe and see enormous uh  
people pay uh a great deal in taxes  
they tell me when i sit and talk to people  
there they tell me they they  
some states they pay uh  
in germany or in in england in some cases people in my income level at least [allege] that they pay up to fifty five percent of their gross income in taxes  
but but i'm not too sure when i put my property tax in my car tax my income tax and these myriad of uh  
now it costs me money to leave the country some sort of a tax to leave the country   some sort of an airport [departure] tax uh uh a tax a sales tax which is getting to uh quite high levels  
i'm not sure that i'm not up fairly close to that  
you really think so  
but i mean what's what's happened here is is is  
i feel that that in the last ten years uh my taxes have gone up  
they haven't gone down  
i pay uh   quite a bit more taxes  
and and and  
but that's been a republican government for the last ten years  
well i  
yeah  
okay uh  
i guess i just push something here  
push one again right  
just hang up  
okay  
don good talking with you  
bye bye  
okay  
well i'm sure that uh probably every person in this country would agree with you on that   because everybody has a different idea of where the money should go  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
no argument here  
yeah  
well of course uh a lot of uh a lot of missiles and things were expended in the course of fighting the war  
and the and the [inventory's] going to have to be [restocked] uh  
on  
now i work for t i  
and one of the things we were told is like they had eleven thousand harm missiles which t i is the sole supplier for  
and they used up two thousand of them in in the war  
so they're going to have to do another contract to [restock] that to get ready in case something else is needed  
that's true  
that's true  
well of course now we used up twenty per cents per cent of that inventory   in a matter of just a few weeks  
and uh uh uh t i also makes the missile which was the the t v laser guided bombs  
and and a big percentage of that was expended as well  
that that that was just a matter of  
uh it's called [paveway]  
and uh a big percentage of that was used up during that conflict also  
so those are two areas in which t i stands to to gain some some short term business to [restock] that  
oh no doubt  
yeah  
as a matter of fact in texas um we've had our school funding system declared unconstitutional by the a state judge  
and they  
and uh the legislature just passed what they called a robin hood bill which  
basically what it does is it takes extra money from the more affluent school districts that are that are you know come from local taxes   and send them to other parts of the state that are not so affluent  
uh well  
okay  
to to give you some perspective this this town that i had lived in for sometime in nineteen eighty three was funded sixty five per cent by state funds  
then we had a number of education reforms that the legislature said hey we got to do this we got to do this we got to do this  
but they forgot to put in the state budget the money to pay for it  
and they dumped it all on the local school districts  
so  
really  
so so what ended up happening was was a was a shift  
we went to sixty five per cent state funding to sixty five per cent local funding in a matter of four years and uh i mean  
oh complete complete  
it's all shifted to local districts  
and now even the money that's been raised for the local districts is being is going to be [siphoned] off and sent to other parts of the state  
that's right  
and and i have i have no problem with uh a certain uh floor level minimum level that's a standard   uh that everybody uh ought to be able to have uh  
but i am opposed to any attempts to restrict um local communities from taxing themselves above that to provide above the minimum  
so did i  
my masters anyway  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
they had to they had to raise uh community college taxes here a few years ago  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh oh i can believe that  
yeah  
yeah  
well i guarantee you you'd be paying a lot more in taxes if uh the democrats had more say  
yeah  
i really do  
yeah  
everybody everybody is  
well what what what they've been able to do is slow down the rate of increase   to keep it to keep it from becoming even more obnoxious  
well this has been really interesting  
and i've enjoyed our talk  
no  
you just uh we just say say good bye  
and that's it  
nice talking with you too  
bye bye  
all right  
uh i guess what i feel about it is that it's so [mismanaged] that it there's got to be something  
when when we pay so much for the for the debt instead of using the money for where   it ought to go it it's just it's ridiculous  
what kills me is when they had a chance to to uh put into action the the the  
what is it uh the act where they had to cut everything across the board  
they kept doing they kept putting off doing that  
why did they do that  
that's exactly what they needed to do to get their act together  
oh yeah  
i think so too  
yeah  
well things like mailings  
they don't use any kind of restraint on some of these things  
they just think once they get there that they can do just anything  
no  
they don't they don't try to uh   to conserve  
and of course here at home we end up [conserving] and [conserving]  
and i mean when i don't have money i don't buy something  
they sure don't seem to  
there are a couple of things i think we need to really work for  
and i don't know quite how to do it  
but i think we need to have the one line uh uh veto so that they don't have to spend so much time doing everything  
if it's a good idea   it can be done again  
you know and if it's not so what  
at least you haven't thrown out all the work they've done for months and months and months and months  
yeah  
this is that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's just an awful lot of that kind of thing going on  
and the trouble is you don't you have so little input about it  
you don't know   enough to know what what to do about some of this stuff  
i  
yeah  
that's right  
the other thing about is i think uh limiting their time in office would be good  
i i just   can't believe there aren't other people out there that could do just as well as what we've got  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's right  
yeah  
wouldn't that be too bad  
well that's right  
i think  
i don't know  
i think uh people in general  
the the the idea of what you need to to exist is so outrageous that it's not   hardly  
you know it starts at the courts  
it starts everywhere   until we can't we've just lost control of of any kind of perspective about what is acceptable and what is not acceptable you know  
no  
you can't even   can't even conceive of what they're talking about  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean it and and you just  
the other thing is it's it's all very well to give money to help people other people  
and i think we need to do that  
but there are they need to put more limits on them  
they need to restrain   about what they do  
yeah  
i i you know i think that's probably unless we can afford it  
if we pay off the debts then we can give it to people again  
you know i don't really mind helping people  
but you you need to get rid of this thing that's that's just uh eating us up   you know and get things on a on an even  
if it were if it were a family we'd be up before the the [magistrate]   for for doing all these wicked things you know  
but the government does it  
and it's all right  
yeah  
that's true  
well sounds like  
yeah  
it's good to see them doing some things there anyway  
yeah  
well  
i think we have to accept the fact that whatever happens we're going to have to bite the bullet  
and we're all going to have to do it  
i it just isn't fair though that when this happens in some places it needs to all come off everywhere  
that's why i thought well you know this is the time  
they need to put that into into action and show they mean business that they've got to cut they've got to cut costs  
yeah  
i think that's right  
well i don't i don't really mind paying taxes for for positive things that are helps like roads and   making sure that uh that water is safe and some of these things  
but um you know it you just feel like it's out of control  
you feel like   they do not have control of it  
and that and so then it just aggravates you you know  
you think i could spend my money  
i could help the poor people better by myself than they're doing  
so it's  
yeah  
well i think that's right  
if they don't do if they don't if they don't pull it in and start doing something i think they're really going to have to i think  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
in some ways we're awful lucky i guess  
there a lot of lot of places where it's worse than it is here  
but   still you don't want it to get that bad good heavens  
no  
we need to get try to get hold of it and and have it be things be honest  
and i guess in the fact i don't really mind paying taxes  
but i would just like to know that they're not being [foolishly] spent that they're doing something that's positive for   for somebody  
i don't really feel like uh i don't really feel like i use taxes very much  
i don't know  
maybe   i do more than i  
i guess i do  
i use them in the in roads and lot of things  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
they've done some good things  
the state actually did some good good work on that in that a couple of years ago  
uh sam johnson came out and talked to us about that   about what they had done  
and they they really had done some good some good work  
yeah  
yeah  
there are a lot of places where they're in real trouble  
and   and i think it would be easy enough to be in trouble here too if they don't take if they don't take that early stand  
yeah  
that's probably right  
the growth is fast enough so that they can't afford to just [dawdle] and wait until something   til they need them  
well it's good to talk to you  
oh about nine  
no  
i just just a housewife  
i just heard about it and found it fun  
guess i like to talk that's all  
right  
uh_huh  
bye now  
yes  
i think we're terribly taxed  
i i think the republicans have taxed us just as much as the democrats  
and i don't think there's a change between one party than the other  
uh i think we get a lot back  
but not as much as we should  
right  
the gramm the gramm rudman act  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think they spend too much  
they they spend too much on themselves too  
the the   a lot of the the taxes gets back to the members of the congress and everything all running for twenty years rather than  
no  
you're right  
yeah  
no  
i think uh it is the congress and them just don't have any interest in saving us money uh  
the national debt is terrible  
uh  
right  
oh yeah  
i saw one on twenty twenty about a month ago i guess whereas one i think that he was a senator from pennsylvania or something like that  
maybe it was uh connecticut  
i'm not sure  
one of the small states up there where he had a bill through for another uh a drug agency that would be located there  
and he was the only one that wanted it  
was going to cost millions of dollars  
the drug agency didn't want it  
and he was going to build it in his home town  
and they were going to hire a lot of people  
and it was ridiculous you know the whole thing  
and and you know they asked him about it  
do you really need this  
this is going to cost a lot of money  
oh yes  
we need it  
but do you know that the drug agency doesn't want this  
and they do things that are you know just like the uh  
yeah  
that  
right  
right  
they're supposed to do what we say  
but they do what they they want to do with it  
absolutely  
absolutely  
we need to get that through  
we we have said that i've said it several times on different subjects about the government that two two terms is enough for all of them  
uh whether you're mayor all the way up city council the works i think certainly president that uh two terms is plenty  
and then we get these professionals out of there  
and they have to learn how to earn a living again themselves you know rather than   living off of us  
uh_huh  
right  
well it's so much money  
and you can't even add it up you know  
that's why they think  
yeah  
when you talk about the trillions of dollars   on this and that  
our national   debt in the trillions of dollars you know  
foreign aid  
yeah  
foreign aid means to go down to almost zero unless it's absolutely   necessary  
they they've given that away for fifty years  
i agree  
i agree  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i i know we're taxed to death on every every thing  
i don't know what's the best way to do it  
but uh they don't even talk about that  
they just raise it  
they don't even consider it like you saying   to cut something back you know  
they are at least doing something now with the the military you know  
they're cutting some of that  
but of course now you know t i  
you know that's hurting us but although  
but t i has gotten a lot of good contracts from the war and everything else  
and if they'll get a lot of programs in the future because of their exotic uh   weapon systems  
but uh that's the only good that i've seen congress do you know and everybody   and all the congressmen and the president and everybody uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the only taxes i think that are well spent  
well not the only but uh  
i think the now i i don't understand the present school thing  
but uh i have two daughters  
one's in college already  
and one's about to be in high school  
but uh i think that paying for school schools is the schools is the only answer really to get rid of crime  
and so i don't mind paying for school   taxes even though my kids will be out of it you know  
yeah  
yeah  
the spending is out of control  
yeah  
oh i agree with you  
i i think that's a wide open subject   what you said  
people need to take a stand  
i think the people will here shortly uh  
i think the next time we have an election we need to try to get some of the ones that have been there forever out too that what they did last election  
and uh ninety some odd percent of the same old boys got back in you know  
so we need to try to get people to two terms so they respect our wishes you know  
they're supposed to represent us  
that's what they're called  
but they don't  
may may may maybe we can change and get us rid of some of those guys that are in there guys and [gals] whatever they are  
i know  
but it  
no  
that's right  
you don't want to  
you want it to stay as good as it possibly can be  
right  
yeah  
that's you're right  
well i think one of the good ones in the metroplex uh in the last say twenty five years or so maybe longer they've built all these [dams]  
you know the corps of engineers have uh soon as they finish a lake they'll go at get another one  
and that we haven't had we've had [droughts] here in long summers  
we've had good water supply  
and that's due to the corps of engineers building looking years ahead and building all these reservoirs for us you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think anything for water supply like that  
california should do more of that too  
right  
right  
they just finished joe [poole] lake over here  
and they need to start another one  
i think every time they finish one they ought to just have   another one in line  
the water's critical  
right  
okay  
yeah  
how many calls have you made  
oh yeah  
i'm up to twenty  
are you a t i  
oh well great  
great  
okay  
well it's been some interesting subjects  
yeah  
thanks for calling  
bye bye  
well i think we pay too much in taxes  
how about you  
excuse me  
yeah  
that's what i think too  
i don't know how you feel um  
we moved here from another state  
we lived here before went out and came back  
and that particular state had an [occupational] income tax but no sales tax  
and what you find out is there's one evil is the same as the other  
here you don't there's no [occupational] tax  
but it's a heavy sales tax  
so they get you coming and going  
yeah  
it's really i know it's just um  
yeah  
it is  
i was shocked  
i went  
we bought a new washer  
and the man said and that's eight percent  
i said eight percent what  
so it's really kind of sad  
yeah  
and then i don't know how you know in terms of when you all do your federal  
but it just seems like if you're strictly middle income it seems like you get hit the worst  
is that what you think  
doesn't seem quite fair does it  
because they have the money to shelter things  
and i don't know somehow get a huh  
oh i thought you were going to say something  
they somehow seem to get around these  
the things that we can't you know  
that make don't make that kind of money  
i don't know  
uh_huh  
i know  
and just somehow it doesn't seem you know  
and then i you  
mean you look at like uh that country singer uh what's his name willie nelson  
i was reading about him in the paper and i said well you know he knew he was making money  
some he didn't look that stupid  
why didn't he pay his taxes you know  
in a way it's almost like he had so much debt that uh filing bankruptcy was a way to get out of all of it   you know  
so do you file federal or joint income tax  
or do you   and do you feel like you get hit by you know too much  
uh_huh  
and we right now we don't own any property  
we lease  
so we're in the same  
we don't have children  
so we're in the same kind of  
it's not as bad as being single and divorced  
but it's sort of like if you have like x point five children and earn you know you kind of get hit with you know  
i i mean it doesn't even pay for me to earn a good wage because  
doesn't that sound stupid  
but i mean there's actually less tax [implication] if i don't work full time compared to what my husband does you know  
so it's kind of hard  
excuse me  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
otherwise you're just you know  
and if you have kids you get like seven hundred fifty dollars or something  
oh it is  
oh my  
well that's not too bad  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
i guess that's my call  
i guess i better go  
okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
yeah  
well i think they waste what we pay  
i think they waste what all the money that we pay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now it's even it's even higher in dallas county  
so  
was it  
it's eight and a quarter i think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
because it's at some point it goes up to thirty three percent  
and then the people that make you know five hundred thousand dollars and and and higher than that they don't have to pay  
and sometimes they have to pay even less taxes  
no  
it isn't  
what  
huh_uh  
right  
i mean if they're in business and and they're making money  
i could see if they're losing money  
but they're making money  
then they should pay taxes then  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
i just file federal income tax every year  
yeah  
i just got divorced  
so i'm single again  
so and you know it's it's a lot worse for single people because they pay the same amount as as the people that make the same amount of money and they're married  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
whoever works less they can get a tax credit for that  
if both of the both of the spouses   work then you get a tax credit for that  
uh_huh  
well it's two thousand now  
yeah  
for everybody  
uh_huh  
then you get a you get a child care [exemption]  
but it's not enough you know  
i mean you pay from fifty to a hundred dollars a week in child care  
and and they only give you like i think it's about five or ten percent of that  
you know it doesn't even it's not even  
oh okay  
nice talking to you  
yeah  
oh definitely  
seems like  
yeah  
i think that uh we probably will have to have have to uh have a state income tax because uh texans don't approve of such things as [lotteries] uh well i i come here from new york  
and new york had a state lottery  
and it really raised a lot of money for the for the state  
uh although we  
in new york we had to pay a state and a city uh tax  
and it was really a great relief when i got to texas that i didn't have to pay that city income tax though  
right  
it sure does make a difference  
uh_huh  
do you live in dallas  
oh you do  
oh i do too  
okay  
and then you know too that um taxes are are less like if you live in mesquite  
you know some people will go shopping in mesquite at the malls out there uh  
uh_huh  
eight point five  
uh_huh  
is it the  
is it uh less in collin county than it is in dallas county  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it sure did  
and then once you could deduct at least some of that um off off your income tax  
and you can't do that anymore  
it really hit me yesterday i had uh air conditioning service for my car done  
and i had a little little uh coupon special that was twenty two dollars   for um air conditioning service where they uh checked it and [recharged] it and put one one pound of freon in  
and if you needed another pound of freon they  
it it was like seven dollars and something  
and then with the with the twenty two dollars and the seven something it all came out to i i ended up paying like thirty four dollars  
and i couldn't believe it and the tax you know really hits you   uh_huh  
and then   oh it's been i've been here for nine years  
really where did you come from  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh i did visit uh michigan i visited [kalamazoo] once  
my sister used to live there  
uh_huh  
that's true i tell you what hit me the first year i was here uh christmas eve in new york there used to be stores open the department stores wouldn't close uh   well i'd say they closed maybe eight or nine o'clock department stores on christmas eve  
but uh there were stores that you could go to uh you know like discount stores and stores down in the village and just all over the place where you could go to  
and you could shop until like twelve or one o'clock that night  
and that was like that was really the only night they were open that late  
but it was christmas eve  
and when i came to dallas i thought i was going to do that christmas eve  
and i couldn't find hardly anything open   after five o'clock in the afternoon  
an i was oh i was i really i really was stuck  
and i think target was the one that stayed open later than any anybody else  
and uh i was able to pick up a few things in there  
but boy i was i was really shocked  
and then another shock i had well when i went to um to buy a slice of pizza   and found out that i had to buy the whole pie  
yeah  
now  
but they  
back then they didn't  
when i first came no  
anyway  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and talk a   talking about alcohol and beer look at the taxes on that   and the taxes on a package of of cigarettes  
i used to smoke you know  
and uh that would have been enough to to make me me give them up  
the price of them now  
but i gave them up a couple years ago because i had some [sinus] problems  
well  
well they're like two  
or i i believe they're hitting two dollars a pack now  
a little bit a little bit more in some places  
uh well i believe it's a little more than twelve dollars for a carton   i think it's maybe thirteen or something  
um because i remember we went to to oklahoma to this bingo place this [choctaw] bingo uh a couple weeks ago  
and somebody that went with me bought a carton for uh ten dollars and something  
and they really thought they were getting a big discount  
well because it's you know the indians i don't think they pay tax  
in in oklahoma  
and uh it was a indian well it's a bingo hall for the benefit of the indians there  
although i didn't see very many indian people in there  
there were just bus loads of people that come from everywhere else to play that bingo because it's it's the stakes are higher and payoffs are bigger and so forth  
i won a dollar  
yeah  
i had fun uh a couple on the bus won some money  
one one guy won  
well i always think i'm paying too much taxes  
how about you  
although at least texas doesn't have a state income tax yet  
i mean you know they keep threatening us that maybe there will be a day that they're going to uh [enact] this i think uh the um other means of providing income for the state have been dwindling  
so they keep trying to say we may need a uh state income tax  
uh_huh  
yeah  
makes quite a bit of difference in your uh well your income level  
you know because other states quite a a chunk out for uh city and state taxes  
so you're uh looking at your yearly salary it makes quite a difference  
a little more take home here  
yeah  
richardson area  
yeah  
i work at well mainly the expressway site is where i work  
oh okay  
yeah  
or up to collin county somewhere that you're getting out of the um dallas county area because   what do we pay like eight and a half percent   something like that for the uh sales tax  
which yeah that really is pretty high  
i think so although i really i don't go up there too much i mean i i normally just kind of go to richardson square mall or valley view mall just kind of for the convenience  
or i guess maybe if i was going to buy a car or something   maybe i would consider where i was buying it to try to you know   save a little bit on that sales tax because on a car that really kind of [mounts] up  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
although i i wish you know overall they'd try the lottery again  
when did you first come to texas  
okay well that's about the same time as me i came down in eighty two  
um well ohio kind of  
my parents live in ohio  
i had lived a little while in michigan  
but you know basically i went to high school and college in ohio and lived there uh more years than i ever did in michigan  
oh okay  
but you know when we first came down here i really thought this place was somewhat backward i mean i was just shocked that we couldn't shop on sunday  
remember that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
were you shocked like oh no i'm stuck i need to buy stuff  
uh_huh  
oh few places now seem to do it by the slice  
but  
right  
well the the uh there was other things too i mean i think it's taken us [yankee's] influence down here   to get them to uh come to the you know the correct decade here and century  
um i couldn't believe that you could have open containers of beer alcohol whatever   in the car  
i mean you could always um uh be careful about that back then because   uh you know if if a cop stopped you then you would um you know get arrested or what not  
and people would just drink openly  
uh_huh  
oh  

i don't smoke  
so i don't really know what the   taxes are and stuff on it  
um  
so you end up about paying about twelve dollars for a pack and two dollars of that is taxes  
huh  
gee  
they're cheaper there  
oh  
oh i got you  
okay  
uh_huh  

well how did you do  
a dollar oh well  
but you had fun playing right  
well we uh  
taxes  
everyone thinks taxes are too high i'm sure  
but uh i think we do get quite a good value for the tax dollars we spend in most cases  
what do you think  
at this stage it's hard to tell  
well at this stage i think we've taxed property almost to the limit because   like the the property taxes on the homes have reached the point that it's [precluding] people from being able to own a home because of the cost of the taxes on them  
i know  
i live in richardson  
and it's up over two thousand dollars a year for taxes on my house  
but now we're getting public services the schools the hospitals  
and if it weren't for the taxes we're putting in there uh look what the schools could cost you  
yeah  
then again the the community college system here is excellent for the dollar spent  
and the public   colleges also the tuition has got to be among the lowest in the country  
uh  
one of the  
uh i believe i don't know which one it is uh down there whether it's hobby or uh the other ex governor down there that are proposing doubling the tuition  
well if you double the tuition it would still be considerably less than the public school tuition in most other states  
yeah  
that would provide uh possibly some relief there to utilize some of the property taxes for other things see  
the so called sin taxes on liquor and the cigarettes and such as that generate a considerable amount  
but i eventually i think you may tax people out of smoking even  
yeah  
well i quit ten years ago  
so i   i couldn't afford to start again  
i know uh  
my children would give up eating before they gave up their cigarettes i think  
but all the various taxing authorities that come through i think the one tax i resent the most though is the additional sales tax for [dart] which is probably never going to be in existence in my lifetime  
well this this is a thing  
i think it's like uh back east  
you had to start your public transportation when you started your cities  
you can't come in afterward and really be successful or economical at it  
if we had been like a chicago or a new york city or philadelphia or someone like that   and had a public transportation system starting in the horse and [buggy] days   and when land was cheap and uh construction costs were cheap you could afford it  
but now   digging tunnels under central expressway and things like that becomes cost prohibitive  
absolutely  
yeah  
yeah  
just take like in chicago where the people depend on the public transportation system to get them everywhere  
new york  
and some   people don't even own a car and know how to drive a car  
someone made the analogy uh with texans as being like the old cowboys and their horse  
an old cowboy would jump on his horse to go across the street  
well most texans will jump in their car to drive across the street  
and i'm just as guilty as anyone else  
i drive to work every day by myself uh without even even any thought of car [pooling]  
and uh most people are that way   because they're used to not having public transportation  
so but i   here again i think i resented where they were collecting the sales tax for five years before they turned a [spade] of dirt   so and doing all these studies and the things  
we saw about them traveling to san francisco to see whether they wanted ten foot wide or twelve foot wide cars or something  
i felt that was a little uh wasteful use of the tax dollars that we were paying you know  
well that's about all i can say at this time  
okay  
it's been real nice talking with you  
bye  
uh yeah  
i i think so  
i i'm uh i think i'm i think i'm uh a little out of the ordinary in that that i i uh i think i'm more worried about the deficit the national deficit than than uh a lot of other people are and think that we need to we need to either raise our taxes or or cutback on something  
and i don't know what to cutback on to   to get to get that to get that settled  
and and uh   and uh i know i'm a real a real uh out of it in terms of taxes  
so i'm i'm uh think that the we really ought to seriously consider what an income tax might do that uh for texas  
and and  
yeah  
i think so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
now i'm uh uh-oh i  
we'd when we moved to richardson one of the reasons we chose it was for the uh for the schools and and realizing that that that that quality of schools might well have higher taxes than other places but that we were willing to uh to go for that   because we supported the  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's right  
yeah  
i i don't i don't know about that  
i i  
i see  
okay  
no uh  
yeah  
well that that that would be true  
that would be true  
but  
huh  
yeah  
and and even if it is isn't going to uh uh provide you with any any services in that it's not doing to provide a route from your your home to a business for instance you know  
yeah  
yeah  
and  
yeah  
and the other thing is that when it when it's the public transportation is established that early on then then the business uh business and residential patterns develop to take advantage of that  
whereas in in uh in dallas here we've we've got uh those patterns were well established before before we really tried to tried to do the [dart]  
and uh for instance all the all the the uh office buildings and stuff that are out here in in uh north dallas as opposed to downtown  
uh to try to to try to provide efficient transportation from everywhere around the the metroplex to to uh both those centers of of business plus everything else that's scattered around here and there as opposed to having a concentrated business area   you know like new york does  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yep  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
a little bit much  
oh yeah  
yep  
yep  
oh the  
yeah  
i i think so  
i think that will probably do it  
so  
good enough  
bye  
americans like me  
and whether i night uh uh not  
i think that we're paying too much taxes um that including taxes in general or income tax  
and um the other thing was do we get what we pay for  
i mean what what is our what is our opinion on that  
so   are you prepared to talk  
let me push  
let me push one here  
okay um  
well i can just tell you a little bit about taxes in texas  
it's most interesting because we're one of the few if  
i don't know of any other state um does not have a a state income tax  
so we don't have a state income tax  
but we certainly make up for it in other ways here  
um for instance the local um sales tax is eight and a quarter percent  
isn't that awful  
how about you  
what do you have there  
uh_huh  
and you have state income tax also  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's been  
people here have just have this um  
they've been really holding out in the legislature  
and it's starting to show um in a lot of ways as far as things that are just totally under funded  
and and i don't know if texas is ever going to be able to to um totally avoid having an income tax or not  
i think eventually they're going to have to do it  
but um do you think you pay too much there  
or how do you feel about that  
oh really  
interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
um yes  
we do have tax on clothes  
uh_huh  
how interesting  
i guess i didn't realize that  
um we don't have tax on groceries for instance uh  
yeah  
right  
yes  
yes  
i should i should have um [delineated]  
yet your absolutely right  
it's the food the [consumable] food parts that you know we don't have to pay   tax on  
yeah  
yeah  
and you really have to watch your your um bill  
sometimes i think um it's real interesting to look to see how many things that i buy in a grocery store which are not really [edible] groceries  
and that's when it really starts to add on  
and um so um that's that is sort of a help  
but um i don't know  
it's just eight and a quarter just seems like an awfully lot of of tax on uh any sale as far as i'm concerned um  
it's real interesting this last um tax season  
i'm a student  
and the last tax season i had a just a part time job helping out in a tax office  
and the woman that owned the office was saying she'd had this business for oh probably seventeen or eighteen years  
and she was saying as the years have gone on there are fewer and fewer things that people can uh take off of their income tax  
and you know if you're not a home owner or if you haven't sold property or uh have something major like that it's hardly you know   it's just not much else you can do  
and she said it's really taken the fun out of doing taxes for people for her because she used to be real creative about helping them   find ways of   you know accumulating receipts  
can't do oh really   can't do it any more  
so  
uh_huh  
how interesting oh gosh  
where did you go to school  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you are you are the same age as my daughter because she just graduated from college this year too  
i'm a graduate student having gone back after many years  
so  
um nevertheless i am a student and poor  
so it's uh um you know it's been  
i guess as far as people like uh our family we can feel like sometimes we pay more than our share as middle class people with americans with   um college age   students you know  
and and i there just i don't know  
i guess as you say you just have to look around and decide that most of the other people that you know are paying about what   you are  
and  
oh yes  
absolutely  
yeah  
because it seems like they still come out okay   um you know  
yeah  
i kind of have my doubts  
uh_huh  
that's  
yes  
seems that way yeah  
that the higher they get the you know  
at least  
i don't know  
it seems like um they must feel like they're paid for all of the years of experience or um or something or just the title sometimes   um  
and it it doesn't seem fair  
and i i know a lot of people do make money um you know in in good investments and things like that  
but i think that's a lot of luck and a lot of gambling and not a not a whole lot of work  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
probably not  
yeah  
yes  
or what's left is not going to be worth anything   you know in terms of how   you can actually use it  
yeah  
right  
but that's  
well and  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's  
i haven't heard much in recent years um about social security  
i mean for a while there not too long ago they were they were saying that the whole system was going to be bankrupt   you know before very long because so much was going out for programs that were it that originally it was never intended to be used for   or you know programs just weren't in existence  
and then um i  
it sort of calmed down  
i haven't heard much lately  
but if you have talked about that in your classes you know in the last few years i'm sure that you have heard  
yeah  
well um i don't know  
i guess we complain about taxes  
but i guess you know   you have to be sort of  
yeah  
you have to   appreciate yeah what what you do get for them sometimes  
and um i guess it's it's worse you know  
i'd rather be able to control my money as much as i do with what's left over   taxes than to live in oh england or um some countries where so much of it is socialized that you don't see any of that money at all  
and so you know i guess it's all relative  
that's exactly right  
that's right  
yeah  
and i  
okay  
oh i guess so  
go by ear  
okay  
right  
oh wow  
uh we have a six percent   sales tax  
yes  
uh_huh  
i don't mind my taxes as much as my social security  
yeah  
yeah  
um the taxes  
i don't know  
i can deal with that because i know everyone else is paying in too i guess   you know  
but uh-oh i don't know uh  
the one thing that  
we don't have uh tax on clothes   do you  
that's what i thought  
i know new york also has a sales tax on clothes  
and i know a lot of kids like going to college with me that lived in new york or out of state and a lot of them would buy their clothes in pennsylvania just for the simple sake of not paying that  
uh_huh  
no  
well we don't have it necessarily on food  
but then there's other things that they nail you for it   like health and beauty products   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
that  
deduct yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and see  
i take it she was an accountant  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know  
well i i i also was a student  
i just graduated in may  
and um i graduated with a finance degree  
but that was the big joke the [accountants] or the people who found ways to cheat on your income tax  
that was the big joke  
clarion university  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think they should go back  
i i realize you know that we have uh graduated tax brackets  
but i think they should still go back  
and instead of putting the burden more on the middle class i think the burden should be put more on the wealthy  
yeah  
yeah  
you know they always have the argument well you know well who's to say we don't work harder to get that   you know  
well   i don't care how much they take off of you you know  
you're still going to be above on top  
and i  
you now  
like you said i've worked in different places  
and the ones that get the most pay do the least work  
uh_huh  
i agree with you  
i do think it's a lot of luck  
and i don't like that part of the finance you know   whatsoever  
i don't know  
but like what i was saying about the social security that's real you know  
it never bothered me until we started talking about it in my classes  
and then the more i think about it the more i think i'm paying in to something that i  
granted you know i'm paying for my grandparents  
but i'm never going to see that  
social security is going to be gone before i ever get any  
uh_huh  
right  
they're going to pay me   fifty dollars a month right  
i'm sorry  
i put in much more than that you know  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you got to look to what they put you know  
you have decent roads at least  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's true  
uh_huh  
it's how you look at it too  
i like to  
instead of thinking how much you know that i'm paying out i like to just look at it and say oh well everyone else is doing it too you know  
are are we paying too much in taxes  
and are we getting what we pay for  
what's your opinion  
okay  
i i tend to agree with you  
when it comes to government spending there are so many studies done that don't mean anything  
but we'll spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars on  
and it's nice to know something doesn't work or something doesn't exist  
but it could be put to more practical use  
that is true  
i agree with you in that area  
uh i have a tendency to  
i'm in from texas  
and i read you know how our politicians voted each week in the paper  
and it's you know it's interesting how the votes vary  
and what they ran on in platform   don't necessarily come true in their voting in the senate or congress whatever  
right  
that's very true  
what what state do you live in  
okay  
what do you think about robin hood  
that's true  
what school district do you work for  
okay  
i work for plano  
so we're comparable  
as a matter of fact i just paid my richardson taxes because i live in richardson and [supplemented] the robin hoods very thoroughly i think  
our taxes went up tremendously  
yes  
yes  
i remember there was about four five years ago  
yes  
yes  
well did you read in the dallas paper where they increased the the [administrators'] pay by thirty three percent   after they laid off all those teachers  
right  
but you know i'm not going to complain because plano got we all got a pay raise this year  
you all got a pay raise this year  
is that correct  
okay  
are you on the early retirement  
oh are you enjoying it  
well it's interesting you know because when you look at what richardson has done with the early retirement you  
well it's kind of a broad subject uh  
i   i think there are some areas where we where we uh pretty well you know get our money's worth  
but i i also think there are a lot of areas especially in uh big government federal government uh where we're short changed uh lot of money spent for uh things that are not used  
and uh i was i was in the air force  
and i was at there were there was equipment at every base i was ever on that was just going to waste  
it was just sitting and rusting  
and you know and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and i i think that uh it's a a tone of our times that politicians uh are into themselves more than they are into you know doing something worthwhile for the people they represent which is really unfortunate  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and don't really respond to uh people who write them and call them  
and uh you know unless they're in the [limelight] and under pressure  
so  
yeah  
i think we get short changed on that  
texas  
that's  
well i work for school district  
and uh it's it has hurt us a lot  
uh there has to be some way i think to [equalize] education opportunities  
but uh you know our we we tend to think i think especially big government tends to think that the solution to everything is to throw money at it  
and i don't you know  
that's just not true  
i don't think the you know i don't think money is going to take the place of intelligence or uh problem solving skills  
uh i think there are there are too many things that money can't uh that that money can't buy that that are important as far as education is concerned  
richardson  
oh  
great  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
i think we've uh   yeah we have got it on the line don't we  
and it's not going to get any better  
you know i mean it's going up and up and up  
uh i used to live in the plano school district  
and uh there was a an organization a taxpayers organization that uh finally communicated the message to the i think to the people in plano that you know we didn't want our taxes raised  
yeah  
but this you know this uh  
i think living in richardson we're kind of spoiled because i think we get we come closer to getting our money's worth as far as the city is concerned i think than probably any any city in the country  
is that incredible  
that's that's the biggest mess i've ever heard of  
you know how can you how can you justify raising anybody's salary if you you know if you have to lay people off  
yeah  
yeah  
well yeah i think the teachers uh did  
and i don't know about administrators  
i i'm [semiretired]  
and i was i was an administrator  
so i you know i don't get a raise anymore  
i just   i i work part time and just get uh you know  
my pay doesn't change  
yes  
yes  
very much  
uh course i i still work two part time jobs  
so it's not really total retirement  
yeah  
they just raised our taxes up here about a year ago  
oh right  
indianapolis got that didn't they  
yeah  
well it seems like a big politics game  
like up here last year the governor was up for [reelection]  
so he said the budget was fine  
the state didn't have any money  
and then right after he won the election he said we owed a lot of money  
so they raised all our taxes  
and now it's election time again  
so they're trying to lower them  
so they're just talk about lowering them  
but they never do  
they just keep raising them  
yeah  
me neither  
well actually they're going to here because they didn't have a budget for so long  
so they raised the tax rate real high for the last three months of this year  
and they're going to lower it for next year  
i guess they figure they're going to make up for all they didn't get when they should have had a budget  
yeah  
yeah  
they say they're going to lower  
but i'll see  
yeah  
so do i  
i mean i'm a a middle class barely  
but uh i don't think the rich are paying less not enough  
i think they're paying too much  
yeah  
i mean if you're in the the three three percent bracket and they take a third of your check every month well that's ridiculous  
why bother working  
well they should just tax everybody the same amount no matter what you make  
that would be fair  
yeah  
no loopholes or anything  
everybody pays ten percent or fifteen or whatever  
right  
yeah  
that's the way our state tax is here  
i think it's pretty fair  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh great  
so you ought to be saving up some every month to make up for all what they should be taking out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess you have to check yes  
or you come down to the end of the year  
and you don't have it to give it to them  
yeah  
really  
ouch  
yeah  
i'll say  

is  
well they've uh statewide raises  
they raise ours it seems like constantly  
we just uh passed a new one uh  
fortunately or unfortunately it doesn't go into effect because we did not get the united airlines  
right  
and uh we had passed a a [provisional] one that if if it did if they did locate here we would raise our taxes  
but uh at least we thought we'd get something back from that  
uh how do you feel about taxes  
oh  
i've never seen taxes really go down  
oh  
i hope they put that in writing  
i feel like the middle class people are supporting the nation and uh that the rich are not paying their share  
and of course the poor can't afford it either  
but uh i really feel like  
and and i feel like you know  
i'm a middle class person income wise anyway  
and uh i get tired of supporting the whole country  
you think the rich are paying too much  
well i don't know many rich that don't have enough tax breaks to  
i mean i'm talking about the really rich  
right  
now i'll go along with that   you know  
right  
now i think that would be fair  
and i you know  
no no [ifs] [ands] and [buts] you know  
no big elaborate laws that say uh you know call for a lot of enforcement or a lot of review  
it's just you know you make this you pay ten percent  
if you make a hundred dollars you pay ten percent  
if you make a million dollars you pay ten percent  
our state taxes are somewhat based on the federal  
and uh they have not gotten it where the withholding is accurate  
so and and you withhold no matter what you do  
they withhold what they're supposed to and at the end of the year it's not enough  
right  
so now you know when you sign your w four form or whatever w two   whatever that is then they always say do you want a extra amount for state   which is ridiculous  
but it's been that way for the last probably ten years  
right  
unless you have a lot of deductions  
but you know if you have a lot of federal deduction it ends up hurting you state wise  
and you end up owing you know  
you may get nine hundred dollars back from federal  
and you're going to owe fifteen hundred in state  
and uh it's it's just ridiculous  
but i i don't know  
i've  
they just came up with a twenty five percent increase on personal property in in oklahoma county and that is a chunk  
i mean twenty five percent increase  
uh i guess my personal opinion i i don't mind paying taxes necessarily  
i i just sometimes wonder if our money is being used in the best way  
uh sometimes when i hear what what they're even what even what the politicians are making you know when they're getting a hundred and fifty thousand plus benefits and that uh i think that's just a bit too much to be paying them uh  
and that's all tax money  
when you figure out how many politicians and each one getting that much it's just billions of dollars  
that's i think is just being thrown away  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i know any time there's there's a big uh budget cut you know  
i work with the state  
and any time there's there is a budget cut or [crunches] it's always the small guy that that gets hurt  
it's never the uh the person that's making a hundred thousand there  
it's always the person that's making the least amount  
and   uh and sometimes we're running around there  
i see these these uh supervisors running around uh having meetings  
i i really don't know what they do  
i sometimes wonder are are they really doing anything  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
well they got so many hidden taxes that it's really hard to figure out how much you are paying because go to a grocery store something like that and you're paying a little tax here  
and you  
so  
gas i don't know about you guys  
but there's probably at least about twenty five to to thirty cents of different taxes on on our gas  
and you don't realize  
yeah  
yeah  
well i know they say like with reagan they say no new taxes  
but they changed the uh deductions on you  
and that just raises your taxes you know they just get it a different way  
so i mean to me it did uh raise my taxes  
yeah  
i heard someone say that uh if they would just something about with the uh the defense budget all that extra money they're throwing back if they cut back by so much percentage it could throw back about six hundred dollars on an average six hundred dollars  
right  
right  
right  
and then when you read about that they're spending all the money on you know these studies that have no relevance whatsoever that kind of ticks you off too  
but uh somebody somebody was telling me the other day that they heard some senator say that what we're paying it's not that we mind paying taxes it's that we're paying too much for a lousy government  
and i i i tend to agree with that  
i'm not really into what they're doing   per se  
and i think there's just too many too many levels of bureaucracy  
i think it can be can be managed by less uh less levels  
right  
right  
right  
right  
well i think we're going to see a streamlining in the government  
i just you know  
i i don't know what kind of uh i don't know what what level or what how long it will take for you know our country to start the public in general to start saying hey this is too much we're not going to pay any more you know we're not going to pay for this  
and you're out you know  
i think we're starting to see it a little bit now  
but i think uh i don't know what what kind of input we're going to get from the public and how they're going to go about doing it  
because i think i think we're just getting taxed way too much  
i mean right now we're getting taxed probably probably around thirty five percent or more  
and that's that's you know that's me not making a whole lot of money  
right  
right  
yeah  
we got a sales tax  
our sales tax is like eight percent  
and i don't know what our gas tax is  
i think it's somewhere around twenty five cents a gallon  
so i mean they're hitting us up  
and they may not raise it you know federally as much one year  
but then they'll raise it somewhere in the state or the sales tax or property tax or whatever  
it's just i mean you can see that you're money is just not going that far  
right  
right  
well i mean you could tell just by just by how much money you have left over  
and all of a sudden i don't know it's just it's eating me alive  
yes  
um i guess my initial view is our tax burden hasn't gone down in recent years despite our total tax burden despite tax cuts  
but among [industrialized] nations we have one of the lowest in in the world  
and in  
of the matter  
you get what you pay for  
if we're going to have national health insurance which seems likely it's necessarily going to involve more taxes  
uh i suspect i take the view that cutting income tax rates has been good for the the economy that most other countries have a higher share of the tax burden in various kinds of sales taxes uh energy taxes particularly and that to the extent we need to raise more taxes that's the direction we should look  
where's it all going  
well one one one of the big tax that has gone up a lot in this year is the social security tax   which in principle is going into into a big trust fund  
but that is a particularly regressive tax uh  
it's a tax on the first dollar earnings  
and senator [moynihan's] uh proposal to to to cut there i think makes a lot of sense  
i think senator [moynihan's] proposal to to cut the social security tax which isn't really going to going to beef up up up the social security program could make a lot of sense  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i think japan i think japan is probably about equal to ours  
and other major countries are higher  
our friends were amazed that the sales taxes the cost of things when they went to canada not so long ago  
and as a whole most other countries have a higher level of cradle to [grave] government services  
and   it's a real real  
they're they're real trade offs there  
uh i  
that's that's a scary thing that there's no no real knowing about  
uh the the there's a lot of inflation risk that isn't taken care of in most private pension plans  
no  
i'm at the national institute of standards and technology   uh part of the commerce department   here in [gaithersburg] maryland  
well well  
i i i didn't pick it uh  
i mean um i like i don't really recall  
i may have filled out on the on the form  
but i i certainly certainly have the feeling i've been given topics different from the ones that i mentioned before  
yes  
yes  
when you place a call   topic is given to you  
oh you should try it  
uh many of the subjects are uh taxes taxes especially  
um one thing that has kept our tax burden high and this will change somewhat in the next few years is the is the level of of the defense budget  
and that's that same subject  
uh_huh  
right  
well i guess i kind of have mixed feelings  
um you know you always sit there  
and out of each pay check so much comes out of it  
and you wonder you know where's it all going  
and we have such a huge uh national deficit  
and and i guess a lot of times there's questions wondering well if it's doing a whole lot of good  
i know there's a lot of social programs out there that need help  
but you kind of always wonder well where's where's the money going  
uh_huh  
i'm sorry  
i couldn't  
right  
right  
yeah  
i agree with that  
as far as other countries i'm not um i don't keep up on it too much as to far as what you know as what they're  
i know  
we were in ireland last year  
and i know that the tax there is extremely high much higher than we pay here  
but   but as far as other countries i'm not uh up to par on  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
but and and you sit there and wonder um  
i guess this doesn't really have to do with taxes but just money in general and and um wondering if you're going to have enough when you retire to live on  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
but um are you involved with the legislature up there  
or which  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
i was just wondering since you said washington d c  
and you and you picked this topic  
i was just   kind of curious  
oh you didn't  
oh did you  
see i haven't placed any calls  
did they automatically assign the topic  
oh i didn't   know that  
i thought whoever made the call could choose what topic  
because i haven't made any calls yet  
i've just received some  
oh i didn't realize that  
okay  
yeah  
because it's kind of a it can be a rather controversial subject depend on who you're talking to  
exactly  
okay  
you think you're getting your money's worth  
well that's probably the next year's agenda  
oh yeah  
they're finding a way to tax you every time you turn around  
and i i think one way or the other we're going to pay for the bureaucracy i guess  
uh it's one area that is really i i think hurting the economy more than anything  
i think the taxes have just every time you turn around they they have taking more bite out of the dollars that are available for spending for any kind of products  
and i i i think that is probably as big a item [fueling] the recession as anything right now  
that's right  
that's right  
yep  
that's right  
well i think that uh that the problem with the sales tax of course is it's an unfair tax across the board uh as far as ability to pay which allegedly allegedly taxes are supposed to be directed towards  
but uh now people with the lowest income pay a hundred percent almost of you know taxes on everything they buy and where people that make you know two hundred three hundred thousand dollars a year certainly a portion of that they aren't going to be paying taxes on you know  
and uh that's the unfair equity [inequities] of sales tax as a main source of revenue  
but i don't think it is anymore not in texas anyway  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
and that's the [unfairness] of the thing  
but uh i think taxes generally are unfair  
so  
well you know like other things if they don't affect you you don't worry about them too much  
i have trouble buying a twenty thousand dollar car still  
so it doesn't  
i i think uh you know generally the prices of cars have gotten out of line which is uh you know  
and uh i guess if people got thirty forty thousand bucks to spend on a car uh that's their [prerogative] you know  
i i i don't have a whole of sympathy on that  
you maybe you buy that you know  
and i don't mean to be knocking uh  
yeah  
there are  
there are  
and the idea of that kind of taxation is to have people think twice on putting their money into that i guess you know unless they really want it buy something that you know  
more well it it's just like having taxes on or exemptions for kids you know  
it's a way of increasing the population that that was one of the initial ideas of you know giving exemptions on kids on on federal taxes  
and where you exempt things like uh uh one of the best things i heard on taxes to [stimulate] the economy someone brilliant [deductor] probably [lloyd] [bentsen] said that all you know if they gave back the deductions on credit cards on your federal taxes   people would probably be you know spending more money using their credit cards  
now i don't know if that's true or not  
but if you look on all interest things not just credit cards but on your cars and you know any kind of interest that you're paying from a personal point of view that might make certain sense in stimulating consumer [purchasers]  
so that's a lot of the games that politicians play on where they want to go you know tax things that they don't you know to a degree well like booze you know  
example they keep raising the taxes on booze  
it gets to the point you know it makes [drunks] sober you know  
they quit buying it  
uh never  
uh the only thing i'm i'm thankful of is that we don't have to pay any income tax in in texas  
yeah  
boy i tell you what  
i sure hope they don't pass something like that  
well i i tell you um  
i remember every time it seems like we turned around they're adding another nickel or   a few more cents onto the price of gasoline  
and actually that one the the the taxes on gasoline don't don't bug me as much as uh uh what are we eight and a quarter percent sales tax  
and every time you go to buy anything now uh  
even you know they they tax food  
that's the one that really kind of bothers me  
oh i got you because people that uh don't make very much money wind up spending it all  
yeah  
whatever they spent it on they have to pay tax on  
what do you think of that new luxury car tax anything over ten or thirty thousand dollars  
oh sure  
no  
uh no  
i haven't  
but it it to me it seems really interesting that they come along and add another ten percent tax uh on top of it  
and there's an awful lot of cars that cost more than thirty thousand  
yeah  
right  
right  
sure  
well what what about the taxes on cigarettes  
uh go ahead  
tell me what you think  
do we get our money's worth  
yeah  
did you see sixty minutes last night  
well they did a thing on the thirty five billion dollars we waste every year just on storing stuff for the military we don't need  
and uh it's staggering  
well there are a lot of things that people i think general  
well i think it's interesting to look at uh where the money goes  
and it goes a lot of places where it probably ought not go  
and   and i don't think generally i think what's interesting is that we probably represent the majority of people in this country in terms of their feelings about the government  
and how it serves us given the extraordinarily large sum of money the government has to operate with  
and that what i think is going to be really interesting is what we do about it  
i mean we are going to have to change the people who represent us  
i mean and i think it's going to be real interesting to see and and then force upon them uh  
yeah  
right that's   i think that's the only thing that's going to change it  
our anger is going to have to to give   rise to to more activity on our part  
uh i've i've said for years that there's full employment for the politically active  
and in our society uh there's very little full employment  
most people in this country are getting worse off not better off  
eighty percent of the public according to bill [moyers'] uh  
recent uh  
piece for uh  
public broadcasting which by the way is a very good use of government money i think p b s is wonderful  
but this special focused on the fact that eighty percent of the people in this country are are seeing their real incomes  
and thus standards of living decline  
and twenty percent are seeing theirs improve  
that's not a formula for a better society  
and the government really plays a role in this  
i mean well they are the people whose strings are pulled and by i guess powerful  
you know and it's really interesting to see how that affects people because essentially more and more people in this country are not likely to revolt in the way that people used to think of of the voter [revolting]  
but people are pretty much getting the picture that some people get taken care of and others don't  
and they think it's unfair  
and when they recognize that it's their tax money they're going to do more about it  
i i'll tell you one quick uh one thing very interesting  
c b s after the state of the union address is going to open up a telephone line an eight hundred number  
and people can call in and say what they think about what's going on in this country  
they expect opening it for one hour   that they'll get three   hundred thousand telephone calls  
and i've thought for years it would make a lot of sense to create an eight hundred number for voters to call and and [vent] their frustration with government   like one eight hundred capitol or something like that   you know just a number you could call from anywhere anytime  
i think that's coming  
and i think once once people really start to communicate how they feel things are going to change  
until then i think you know it's going to be really painful  
so the question is how soon are we going to start to get our money's worth  
and as you said it's how soon we get involved  
and i think we need to create mechanisms to allow us to get involved like allowing us to call a toll free number and say hey look do it this way not that way or i like this or i don't like that or this is how i feel about your spending my money on art that i don't think is art  
well that's the good thing about what is happening because i think more and more the news media which takes a heck of a beating and and deserves some of it is telling us you know about the problems  
so the more we communicate hey look we want a change here because you know as it turns out we've wasted a tremendous amount of money on our defense spending in this country  
over a very long period of time  
uh and uh  
right  
yeah  
well you may be right  
what i think is really going to be interesting is to see how uh we as a society deal with it  
and i and i think it is what you say it's it's a  
hey listen if i had my way i wouldn't pay my taxes  
not with the not with some of the things that i hear that our tax money is going for some ludicrous things  
no  
i did not  
i  
well how does this grab you how did this grab you  
uh this  
i i mean i'm i'm a lady  
but this i heard this on a christian program  
and it was uh about the n e a  
and that's the national endowment for arts  
and they fund they funded this thing this act on a stage and did a study on it between two [lesbians] and two [homosexuals] and wrote a report about that with our money  
and then it just [frosts] me terribly  
absolutely  
i believe that's true  
yes  
that's correct  
heavy involvement from the public  
uh_huh  
yeah  
heavy involvement from the public  
yeah  
absolutely  
no  
it is not  
it's [lopsided] very much  
so  
uh_huh  
that's right  
they pull the strings  
right  
the  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'm sure they will  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
i understand that  
but hopefully that the people that are listening to what our comments are take some action on it  
oh absolutely  
right  
absolutely  
we only see the tip of the [iceberg] only  
you know there's so much   of it going on that it would really you know uh set us into a deeper depression if we knew the whole picture  
well jackie uh on taxes i i guess i would have to say that i that my opinion is that i do think american's are paying too much in taxes  
uh what's your feeling about that  
right  
uh where you live do you have a state income tax and a sales tax both  
uh uh_huh  
in new hampshire we have uh uh no no what we call broad base taxes  
no income tax and no sales tax  
uh we tax business uh eight percent  
businesses are taxed eight percent  
and we have what we call the five b s uh for our taxes booze uh butts cigarettes beds uh hotel room tax   bellies a meal tax and [bets] gambling  
so uh we do have a very low tax rate  
but you know combined with the federal income tax i think that american's generally do pay too much in taxes  
and  
uh_huh  
well that's nice  
nice nice to get a refund  
uh_huh  
do you think that uh for whatever taxes we do pay that uh we are getting value for it  
yeah  
uh my my opinion of taxes is that we just send money to washington or to the state  
and they say they are going to send some back  
it's like giving yourself a it's like one arm giving the other a transfusion  
you know what i mean  
uh it it really uh  
i should say one arm giving another arm a transfusion through a [leaky] tube because   right because uh there's an old saying in amongst taxes and politicians that there's a fly paper effect  
and that is that money tends to stick where it lands first  
and when you send it to washington or send it to your state capitol uh a lot of it stays there and not that much comes back to you  
uh_huh  
that it  
uh_huh  
well it does it it does seem that the more taxes that are raised the more the politicians spend  
uh it's almost like they will spend as much as the they're allowed to collect you know  
uh there is an interesting proposal that's been going around now for a few years of having a flat tax uh ten percent or thirteen percent  
there would be no figuring  
i mean you would take your income tax  
you would have a certain amount  
i mean you would take you total salary  
those who made under a certain amount wouldn't owe any taxes  
and then there would be a set amount for however many people you know dependent you have  
and you would just pay a flat tax no exemptions no deductions or anything else after you know after you figure up who's in your family  
and that would eliminate a lot of the bureaucracy in the i r s  
and it would eliminate all these loop holes that the fat cats get away with  
yeah  
i i'd like to see something like that  
i think it would be fairer  
and it would put a you know a lot of the tax attorneys our of business  
and i am sure they will fight it tooth and nail  
but i really think a flat tax would be a lot fairer for all americans  
i mean it doesn't seem right that somebody that makes twenty five or thirty thousand dollars pays four or five thousand dollars in taxes while somebody that makes two hundred and fifty thousand dollars might pay nothing in taxes  
it doesn't seem fair to me  
right  
i think your taxes in wisconsin are pretty high i i if i am not mistaken aren't they i   mean for your state  
what is do you know what your state income tax rate is  
twenty percent  
just you just pay it huh  
you're like you're like my daughter who is in college down in massachusetts  
and uh she works as a waitress  
and she is attending college full time also  
and she sends her taxes to me  
and i figure them up  
she really has no idea  
she gets a refund check  
and  
i agree  
i think taxes are high  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
yeah  
i i agree  
and i think it's about the time of the year when you just start getting  
well if you do get money back from like jobs  
i'm still a student   so uh i only work part time  
so i i get a check back  
so  
from from taxes  
but  
yeah  
it is  
but it's not much  
so  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there you go  
right  
yeah  
i don't know  
i  
don't seem like they are doing much with it  
i mean there's plans there  
and now that they are voting and people you know getting into drug and that stuff  
they have nice plans  
and uh but they don't always work  
and then you know they try to raise taxes more  
and i don't what happens with all the money because if their plans don't work  
you know but taxes get raise  
so i don't know  
i'm not really into politics uh  
i don't really understand it  
but it's just you know  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
huh  
yeah  
the could be nice  
huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
huh  
yeah  
it isn't  
there is not much out there that is fair  
that's for sure  
huh  
i will agree to that  
uh  
um no  
i i have no idea  
i just  
my dad does it all for me  
i use  
uh_huh  
think about uh taxes  
you spend what you have  
and  
yeah  
i think that the general idea is to you know spend uh during a time of recession that you know for the deficit spending to help pick up the economy  
but they're running under the  
you know the way they're running it now they're you know running it under a deficit spending you know while we're not under a recession  
so there's never any [surplus] coming in to counter the deficit that we're running  
so that's kind of a basic thing of economics i guess keep spending keep going into debt  
you're not going to payoff what you owe  
but so i guess the the question was more like uh do you get what you pay you know get what you pay for  
yeah  
there's  
uh_huh  
i agree with that  
i guess  
i'm i'm a student right now  
and i don't make a whole lot of money  
and so i i kind of don't pay a [proportionate] amount of taxes to i guess uh compared to what i get because i you know all my my education is state sponsored  
i go to a state sponsored school  
and uh my education all up through high school and stuff  
so i guess i'm kind of in debt i i suppose because i don't you know been paying taxes all that all that long  
my parents i guess however have contributed to that you know for the education side of it and everything  
but uh i usually end up getting money back  
i will this year anyway from a  
yeah  
i am  
i need it too  
otherwise  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
more taxes you pay  
uh_huh  
isn't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
well isn't  
uh_huh  
there's a lot yeah lot of hidden taxes  
uh_huh  
the taxes that people don't think about that  
yeah  
the the the income tax is a lot more visible portion of the taxes you pay i guess  
uh_huh  
there was that  
which  
was it jerry brown  
one of the democratic candidates had a proposal for doing away with all the the tax codes they have now and implementing a i think a flat percentage something like that  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
that's because   until like eight  
up until like eighty five or something was the  
well i think they're a necessary evil  
uh i wish the government would operate on the same premise that uh businesses operate on  
and that is uh   you you don't spend more than you than you bring in  
well i  
it just depends  
uh uh roads are very expensive uh commodity and so is uh utilities they supply and police and fire department uh  
you know they need to make a living  
so i think for for for many years uh we've paid teachers and police officers and firemen who are uh to a great extent public servants   uh we have not paid them really what they're worth in what they contribute to society  
but uh then again uh it's the hard to justify with all the [wastefulness] of money that the government spends on all levels of of uh government including [municipalities] as well as state and federal governments  
uh you're very fortunate  
we just try not to pay any more in than we have to  
uh we pay in a substantial amount uh  
we don't regret paying taxes  
we do think that uh sometimes uh we have a reverse of a regressive tax a progressive tax  
and progressive tax i think uh does not give people incentive to make more money  
and what i mean by that the more income you make the more tax you pay  
it should be i think a flat percentage  
and uh that percentage ought to be an equitable amount  
uh last year when they passed the tax laws for the uh nineteen ninety ninety one whatever nineteen ninety one   uh i added up all the taxes that we were going to pay on all these different specific luxury items and travel expenses and   everything else  
and i totaled them all up  
and basically uh we were going to be paying seventy or eighty percent tax  
now that was the assumption that you spent that same dollar for every for every item on there   even though there's uh taxes on different things  
but you know there's there's a lot of taxes you pay that you're not even aware of that you're paying uh  
like when you buy a tire you pay a federal [excise] tax  
you pay gasoline taxes every time you pump something into your your   tank  
but you probably pay more percentage wise in other taxes  
yeah  
if you implemented a flat percentage it would encourage people uh to make more money  
and the what people need to understand in my opinion now this is just my opinion okay uh is that businesses create jobs and jobs create income and income pays taxes  
and so if they [penalize] businesses business people are smart enough to say here's my break point i'm not going to work any harder   and make any more or create any more jobs  
and so  
based on that who do you think you're talking to  
you're talking to an employer  

um what's our topic  
taxes  
right  
right  
um  
what do you do  
i guess that  
i mean it all depends really on what kind of bracket you're in  
uh_huh  
right  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh well no  
i can't really complain  
i'm a student um  
and i i work as a co op at uh georgia tech research institute  
and uh i'm going to get back most of what i earned i mean most of what i pay in taxes  
and uh and uh   one of my parents is still claiming me  
huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure  
i went  
well i did work um just very for some time  
but i didn't make enough money to really make   too much of a difference  
right  
no  
no  
i haven't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
oh  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
taxes  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
no  
no  
i haven't  
uh i uh my father pays for my my schooling my tuition  
so uh i'm i haven't made use of that  
physics  
uh_huh  
everybody says that  
huh  
um i haven't i haven't gotten too terribly much into my major yet  
actually um the the degree i'm getting is physics  
there's a different one for applied physics  
so i guess you could call it more straight stuff   than applied  
i doubt about that  
are are is america i mean are we pretty pretty steep compared to most countries  
no  
i don't think so either  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
taxes  
do we pay too much  
well do we  
um  
my tax bracket is is pretty high up there  
i pay the i generally pay the maximum tax bracket  
and uh i think that we're paying too much  
because i don't have any children  
and i pay a lot of property taxes  
i don't have any um i don't you know i don't use an awful lot of city services  
it it you know   it's like i have to work i have to work all the time   just to make enough money to pay the taxes  
and um there's so many people who want a a [dib] of the federal money   or the state money or whatever it is  
and i just  
sometimes many times i end up feeling like i'm paying too much in taxes  
how about you  
do you pay too much  
well when you   when you go out into the uh when you go out into the working world   it it changes quickly  
um you look at your paycheck  
and you go oh my gosh where did it all go  
um what kind of what kind of  
uh well have you pay a lot of in  
have you been out working and then gone back to school  
or are you did you go directly from high school into into college  
to worry about it  
have you have you been active in in politics trying to concerning this  
have you like worked on political action committees or something like that  
i uh i haven't done any of that type of work myself  
um but every once in a while when i hear up here at at uh in d c area um one of the radio stations has been talking about the the congress  
um congress has added too towards the members bank there you know  
there's a bank that they all bank with  
and i guess it went [defunct] recently  
and one of the congressmen has has written in the last three years about a thousand bad checks  
and we we the taxpayers float him a loan for all all those bad checks   no interest no repayment schedule  
and um it's causing quite a stir up here   because we're so close to d c anyway  
it's really kind of curious to watch this thing occur  
um i i i think we pay too much  
and i've i look at my paycheck  
and i make  
well let's see  
they take out in state and federal taxes  
i think i pay forty two percent  
forty two cents out of every dollar i make goes to the government  
and then they charge me sales tax  
and they charge me gasoline taxes  
and they charge me all these others  
and it's just too expensive  
i can't believe that  
i i'm just thankful that i don't get all the government that i pay for  
you know what i mean  
do you have you used um student loans and things like that that were guaranteed by the government  
what are you studying down there  
physics  
oh that sounds like a fun fun field  
scientific  
heavy science  
are you like in the [particle] [particle] research or anything like that  
or is it more um applied physics  
okay  
well maybe maybe you can figure out how we can stop this [inertia] that's   come rolling towards whatever it's rolling toward  
actually i don't think we are  
um like like europe   um england   i know the taxes are a lot higher  
but they do have socialized medicine and things like that  
and um i know i was reading in the paper i believe yesterday that um they're talking  
or maybe it was on the  
i don't think anybody pays too little  
do you get hit up for local taxes there  
oh so you get the whole [smorgasbord]  
well i i actually live in new hampshire   tax free or die   uh_huh  
no  
actually there's no sales tax in new hampshire either  
no  
what there is is very high property taxes because that's how they fund schools and everything  
the only problem is i work in massachusetts  
so they   they hit me up for the five percent there  
yep  
but it  
well you know we  
it's only a state tax here no local  
we've got a five percent sales tax  
but uh the problem is that so i'm paying state tax even if i don't live here  
but at least on things like stock options and things like that they don't tax me  
so that's not too bad  
oh i i mean i i'd consider twenty percent lucky because just on i mean you know when you figure out just on feds you know i actually hit the thirty one bracket   this year which was no fun  
right  
and also you know then you figure out seven or eight percent for f i c a   which is taxes   where you  
most people forget about them because you've you know you can't always get your f i c a back at the end of the year  
but so you know and then you know like a five percent [surtax] i'm paying forty percent tax  
yeah  
well i i mean i think there's some people there certainly are some things where you need infrastructure  
and you need   you you know  
there are things government does better you know  
i think government does a better space program   than you're going to get out of private individuals  
but you know i think you know you look at things like you know tax subsidies to tobacco farmers   because jesse [helms] wants it that way  
or   you know and and just tremendous amounts of you know  
so much of it is now just going to service debt or   you know is going in into into programs that you know  
yeah  
they are they are a fat  
you know i think the military is really fat  
i think that a lot of the the h e w services although they're providing necessary services have too much fat in them  
you know like we  
yeah  
i mean we we spend a fortune for things like v a hospitals  
and you know then you look at how well they're managed you know  
i don't think we're getting our money's work out worth out of there  
i think it's all going into into [bureaucrats]  
well   between him and reagan  
yeah  
the great [communicator]  
oh oh yeah  
they think  
oh yeah  
and then they go and say i'm not  
congress they're the fault for it  
but you know the other thing is it's tricky though  
because like in new hampshire they say oh all right let's cut the military budget  
well yeah  
then you lose half your jobs in new hampshire  
you lose  
[grotten] connecticut goes  
so you know it's like you know it's very tricky to balance that stuff off because then you hurt you know  
if the if the if people lose their jobs then they become a load  
and they're not contributing taxes  
so you know it's it's very hard to say you know this is what we should cut  
who aren't contributing  
right  
yeah  
and uh in our  
right  
but what's very funny is in our town meeting they were  
this this guy had both for our school district meeting and our town meeting had this proposal which unfortunately [violates] new hampshire constitution   for our local town to do it to uh have you have people line item their taxes  
they say i want to pay for this and this and this and this and this  
course the only problem with that is then nobody paying for the necessary services they don't use  
yeah  
no  
i would tend to agree very highly  
i think that we're all paying a little bit too much taxes and not seeing too much good come out of it  
yeah  
we sure do  
here in indiana we pay uh we pay county income tax state income tax  
we pay five percent sales tax  
uh you name it they tax it  
that's right  
we  
uh_huh  
right  
which is probably pretty nice  
but i'll bet that means your state sales tax is pretty high  
there's no sales tax either  
uh_huh  
right  
[taxachusetts]  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
i uh i really think that here in indiana at least we pay a a whole uh just too much tax  
i worked in a factory uh last summer  
and on the average i was losing twenty percent of every paycheck to taxes  
and i don't feel that i really get a whole lot of return from that  
i mean i don't utilize all you know it really any government welfare services  
of course i drive on the roads  
and i you know went to the schools and stuff  
but i really feel that that i'm just getting [overtaxed]  
uh_huh  
no  
that's   that's not any fun  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
which is just outrageous  
and a lot of it  
and if you look at the way the government is run these days it just seems like a lot of it's going to waste  
right  
right  
right  
that's right  
got to keep those farmers happy  
uh_huh  
right  
there is just way too much bureaucracy  
and so much of that tax money is going just to keep that bureaucracy running keep the paper [shuffling] around   instead of real you know good programs  
right  
and a lot of it's feeding that  
just i just i really especially in the election year i mean i'm really thinking a lot about this the economy and questions like that and and just the whole  
it seems like everything is really [screwy] right now as far as the economy uh the government goes and our our whole economy in general  
and our taxes just are going to keep rising no matter what happens  
and especially when you've got the bush administration who has increased government expenditures uh beyond what any other president since world war two has done  
and yet   he supposedly  
right  
right  
yeah  
i mean i just read something that two thirds or three quarters i'm not exactly sure of our national debt are was created during the reagan bush era   who are supposedly [fiscally] conservative  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
it's really  
that is the  
especially that defense cuts in the defense is really a catch twenty two   double [whammy] because like you say if you cut defense well that's great  
that's going to lower our national expenditures  
but then you're going to have people on welfare  
and they're not   putting taxes in  
so that's that's really  
it's  
i'm glad i'm not the one who has to come up with these policies  
uh_huh  
right  
that's right  
steve uh with the election year and whatnot coming up do you think we ought to cut taxes raise them  
or or or what do you think  
uh_huh  
see i never thought really it's uh i never really thought that that the the question really had to do whether or not we're paying too much or too little  
i i always that the the real question was is are we getting a reasonable return on on investment  
for instance like social security tax or uh  
i mean that's that's tax  
we're paying money  
and and supposedly this money is going into some kind of fund so that when it comes our turn to retire the money will be there for us  
so that's  
yeah you know  
when i when i see that money taken out of my paycheck each each week i or each every other week i i really think that money's history  
and   you know so as far as return investment that's not that's nothing  
and we're not even going to get the exact same number of dollars back  
uh someone was telling me that there is a uh uh there's still an office in uh you know staffed with with people there and in d c that are [researching] to find a cure for polio which  
i may be wrong  
but i believe that the cure for polio is already founded  
but but supposedly once you have an office in d c or you know and and staff it with people it's really tough to close it down  
and and they just haven't yet  
uh_huh  
well that might be the difference  
i don't know  
uh the other thing that uh i remember seeing on t v lately is uh had to do with  
it's like seventy five percent of the historical sites in america are in the home districts of very powerful people politically  
that that for some reason historical sites with you know the the full federal money and everything seem to appear as as almost as like political favors to to very strong politicians  
uh_huh  
so it sounds like you uh you think that that we'd be able to save some money by uh   passing the line item veto  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
pork barrel politics  
yeah  
but massachusetts wasn't when dukakis was there anyway wasn't in that great shape financially  
uh_huh  
i mean i don't know  
i  
it's uh i mean it's it's tough  
i mean there's there's two ways you can kind of go to get out of tough financial situations  
i guess you can like raise taxes and then create like job programs and whatnot  
or you can hope that if people keep their money that they'll spend more and create jobs and and whatnot  
well that's that's a really hard question  
i do know that uh politicians always talking out of both sides of their mouths  
uh i  
let's example uh  
our friend the president right now says no new taxes  
we should and especially if anything be cutting taxes now because of the recession  
and at the same time the budget he sent to congress has tax and fee increases  
so uh i know the politicians uh aren't aren't straightforward  
now in terms of economics i'm not  
it's hard hard to call  
it really is  
right  
yes uh  
well yeah  
i'm not exactly sure uh about polio in particular  
i know we have a polio [vaccine] come will prevent somebody from getting polio  
i'm not sure if we know what to do in terms of [curing] some who has already gotten polio  
right  
yeah  
it's it's it's funny because uh it was one of the things that bush is trying really hard to get ahold of is the line item veto where uh you know congress is able to attach all kinds of uh funny [amendments] for individual uh congressional districts   to the to the main budget proposals  
and the poor president has has to uh either accept or reject the whole thing  
oh  
i i think the line item veto is not not is not necessarily a bad thing assuming that the uh the the president uh uses it to get rid of uh this kind of waste  
on the other hand uh it it assumes that you have lots of confidence in your president not to veto important things   uh and just to get rid of the [unimportant] things  
and whenever there's that kind of subjective judgment there's always going to be a dispute   as to uh where the where the [boundary] between waste and and necessity is  
so i'm not i'm not sure that that that will help solve our problems  
but there definitely is is a problem with  
uh i forgot  
there's a political term for this stuff pork barrel or something  
uh  
pork barrel politics  
there has to be some way to do it  
i know state governors usually have line item [vetos]  
and uh i lived in massachusetts for a while  
and uh when dukakis [vetoed] certain things there was a big uproar and wasn't necessarily so popular  

at least at the end  
yeah  
they were very good at first  
they were in very good [financials] at first  
and uh that's part of the reason he became a [nominee] is because things went so well  
and then of course the bottom fell out  
and spare the economy  
yeah  
it's really it's a hard balance it it definitely is  
even not for government even just say for a small business  
uh i know some  
well actually i don't think they're out of line  
devil's advocate possibly  
but it you are trying to avoid paying taxes  
and whether or not you agree with that law you're still [circumventing] it  
you are legal in in your [circumvention] of that law  
really i i i don't think that's a valid argument  
i think that most people are quite aware they're not paying that six percent sales tax  
um naturally some some things you just can't find in your local k mart or or uh [bryn] [mawr] stereo dealer  
uh but then why not pay pay the sales tax  
corporations have to  
why should an individual just because it's just because the state can't really find out about it be able to avoid paying sales tax  
yes  
i i'll agree it it's not your responsibility  
but is it also legal   for you to do that  
from what i understand from various net [readings] it the federal government is going to try to legislate a more aggressive enforcement of state tax [schemes] uh in into place in the next few years  
it is it is a lost revenue stream right now  
and states can use all the revenue they can get  
with some with something like that do your arguments still apply  
which is exactly what businesses do at the present  
and i i   i was actually talking about businesses purchasing something mail order and then having having to pay sales tax on it  
that's my understanding of the way uh the way it works  
usually the the person ordering doesn't pay  
but the accounting department will uh suck up all the bills at the end of the month and realize how much they have to pay  
and there there are some substantial nasty penalties um if you if businesses try to avoid that  

no  
businesses uh   if purchasing things mail order  
if if i'm a computer consulting firm and i see these this great deal on forty six mother boards uh from from say utah  
um i i might buy the mother boards from utah but then still have to pay pennsylvania sales tax  
my accounting department will at the end of the month  
i think that i think that's the way things work in pennsylvania  
and i know they work that way in uh say here in d c  
yeah  
that's true  
a a big hole does exist right now uh in that consumers can just say oh i i forgot that  
there there is no well defined mechanism at all  
and and that it is a a loss i i think is that the federal government will try to establish a mechanism just to do just that in in order to gain the revenue that's being lost  
uh i mean i i don't know if i agree with that  
but it but  
so let's talk about the uh wonderful abuses in the state of pennsylvania of personal property taxes whereby you can purchase something mail order  
and after the fact the state of pennsylvania can find out about it and send you a bill for the sales tax appropriate to that item that you purchased as well as interest and penalties from the time that you bought it  
what do you think  
is pennsylvania kind of out of line there  
what what if you're not doing it in order to [circumvent] the law though  
i mean what if you don't even realize that you're subject to paying uh income tax on something that you purchase mail order  
well i mean it seems to me that generally at least in my own experience when i purchase something mail order it's not to [circumvent] paying sales tax to the state of pennsylvania  
it's because i'm sorry the commonwealth of pennsylvania  
uh it's because i i can't find the item that i want at a competitive price anywhere in my local area  
so i go outside the area for that  
and i think that it's not my responsibility to police myself and pay pennsylvania what they believe they are owed even though you know the revenue stream went to another state  
i don't i don't think that that's my responsibility as a as a conscientious consumer  
well i think that if if policy is established and if a mechanism is put into place to promote the collection of taxes in this fashion then i don't argue with it  
because it's not a burden on the consumer to remember that oh i bought this out of state  
i need to xerox the receipt and make out a check for six percent and send it to pennsylvania  
right  
but the point is is that businesses do that  
the business that you purchase the thing from is responsible for collecting the appropriate sales tax and [forwarding] it to the state in question  
that's a cost of doing business  
the burden   shouldn't be placed on the consumer  
uh  
uh do you mean businesses from the point of view as of of selling things to a consumer and   then being responsible for the sales tax   or purchasing  
yeah  
see i'm unfamiliar with that because i don't i never see that end of the business  
so my only experience has been from the point of view of a consumer  
uh but if that's the case if the business is responsible for [policing] themselves then i think some well defined mechanisms need to be in place so that uh the opportunity to forget that you owe sales tax for something uh can be avoided  

uh taxes  
do you want to go ahead  
uh_huh  
i agree  
uh_huh  
well i think uh you know when i look at uh all the things that are coming out now about over spending and spending money that's not there and buying things that are extremely expensive where they could buy it at a at a better discount uh  
when you when  
exactly  
exactly  
that's exactly uh the whole thing  
when you take a look at all those issues of where our money is going  
and it's just  
as long as the person that's spending the money uh doesn't think about  
oh i can go out and spend anything that i want to  
it's just unlimited  
right  
an unlimited source  
so they they think well i'll go out and buy a four hundred toilet seat  
and i could have went to k mart and bought it for you know ten or fifteen  
i mean that kind of thing  
and uh  
exactly  
exactly  
and i know a lot of uh corporations now are looking at their amount of money that's being spent  
and they're looking   at what's the best buy  
it used to be you could go if you had a company you had to go through certain people  
and you didn't care what you paid  
i mean you just got it done  
now people are putting in [bids] for things and are looking at things  
going to actually shop at best buy for best buy is one of our electronic stores   for fax machines things like that instead of going through these office supply companies that mark up their amounts and say you know i'll give you a legal pad for five bucks  
and you can go to another shop and get it for maybe sixty cents or or ninety cents  
that kind of thing  
so  
except for everything keeps going up you know  
and i know as a middle class uh you know  
and also i have one dependent has   my daughter  
and i keep looking at well where's the tax so called tax uh relief   for having children  
i mean there is none  
i mean i think i paid just as much as when   i didn't have her  
so  
uh_huh  
sure  
exactly  
uh_huh  
exactly  
yeah  
that's the whole thing  
now they have gotten this wonderful idea of not taking out as much taxes  
but you're still going to owe the government as much money  
so by the end of this coming year what's going to happen is all these people are going to find out that they owe the government  
and it certainly isn't going to be in their savings uh account  
they won't be able to pay it  
and there'll be a lot of problems because of that you know  
put people into you know january or february which is always suppose to be  
the month after christmas is supposed to be high spending because everything is on sale  
nobody's going to have the money to spend  
they're going to be paying on their taxes  
so they're going to have to just cut back  
so i don't know where the answer is  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
no  
well that's the whole thing  
i think people are getting so fed up with it  
now we go through another election and listen to all these lies about the  
no  
no  
well i don't think people think they can make a difference  
and when you've got candidates as you do  
it's candidates that have money  
and it's backed by big business  
and big business says well we don't care about the little person  
and uh you know you're not going to get anymore abe lincolns   around  
uh_huh  
well who knows uh  
yeah  
generations from now we might uh set back in our little uh rocking chairs and watch our grandchildren go through an entirely different system of things and say you know this government itself isn't working  
just like the communist government of uh the old u s s r  
and maybe that's going to happen to america where they'll say hey  
we're fed up  
maybe it'll have to be just individual state tax  
and each state take care of itself and no government type of uh you know  
where you have to pay out to federal or whatever  
i don't know  
who knows  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
everybody is  
in fact i'm not sending in my check  
sure  
we pay far too much in taxes  
well far too much for what we get  
i mean   it's just   i don't know it just seems too much of the money is just lost  
um  
you mean like those you know twenty thousand dollar toilets  
sure  
it's real easy to spend other people's money  
right  
right  
i don't mind them getting what they need  
it's just when they pay so much for it  
it takes you know very little to just shop around and  
that's true  
yep  
right  
yeah  
i'm also wondering why our taxes are still so high considering like the world's probably in better shape now than it has been in the last fifty years  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know  
oh i know  
i mean i don't even   you know i don't even get to see half my paycheck  
between four oh one k and and the thirty four percent they're taking out for taxes  
let alone what i end up having to pay  
sure  
nope  
they won't be able to pay  
sure  
none  
i don't  
in the first place you know there's also like taxation without representation  
well i don't feel represented anymore in our government  
i mean it   it's certainly not a government for me  
it doesn't take care of my needs  
and people don't care anymore either  
people don't want to go out to vote  
yep  
no  
but   but that that's going to backfire because   little people who buy everything  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
i wonder though  
yeah  
i'm not  
i don't know  
i can't think of any easy answers to it  
but something has to happen  
i mean   i'm certainly fed up with it  
i went   i turned mine in about twelve hours early at noon  
are you eating  
no it's  
say what  
tell you what we can do is uh i can punch the uh one  
and then after five minutes when the uh uh voice comes on we can talk all night if we want  
uh i love the [irony] of uh talking about this subject on april the   fifteenth  
but uh i'm afraid i'm i'm probably in the minority  
i i actually don't think that we uh pay too much in this country uh   uh particularly uh in this part of the country  
uh i guess i do have a a bone to pick with uh uh the way taxes are distributed  
uh i just finished [fuming] at the fact that we pay an eight and a half percent sales tax and no income tax when the income tax could have been deducted from the federal form  
and the sales tax can't  
i think that's regressive  
and uh uh it's kind of dumb  
well i mean nobody taxes groceries  
where  
is that right  
right  
right  
but i guess when i hear when i see the comparison between the united states and uh any other western country uh their their rates are like uh forty one forty two and ours are like thirty six thirty seven you know  
if you [compute] as a percentage of total income all taxes [lumped] together we actually do pretty well  
there's no other country that's that is taxed as low as we are  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'm i'm not sure i understand what you mean  
right  
oh you mean lowest end of living in spite of lower higher taxes  
yeah  
i suppose that's true  
yeah  
uh probably less so now than it was ten years ago or whatever  
but  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
since uh i send my kids to parochial school that  
it's not it's not quite the bargain that  
but i mean i pay them gladly  
that's a decision  
i think it's a dumb decision on our part because countries like canada and england and germany do perfectly well with a uh two tract system in which religious schools [coexist] with [secular] schools with the same tax money  
but uh i mean that's that's the way americans want to interpret it  
i guess that's all right  
but  
yeah  
i  
and if i were uh  
when i was single and again when i'm retired   i will not mind paying uh what it takes to keep the schools good  
that's always been a high priority  
i do  
yeah  
that's true  
i think in places   i think in places like california people are beginning to find that in in areas that are fairly well off if you add the uh uh people of various sexual [persuasions] and those who never intend to marry and those who are retired and those are uh just looking for fun people with families turn out to be such a small minority that they can't get a tax bill passed no matter what happens  
and uh   there are big sections of the country where people with children of school age are such a small minority that they can't get anything done  
that seems a a like a cultural [lapse]  
i mean people always used to be willing to [ante] up for the schools  
they  
right  
yeah  
people would rather uh increase the fire department and cut down the schools because it means more to them  
but i think it's sad   selfish and [shortsighted]  
yeah  
well  
not very good  
it's not been a good day  
i don't know  
i finished mine up about eleven and left it here with carolyn  
so i hope she's turned it in  
uh i  
go ahead  
i'll stop eating  
i just barely got   home from the university  
i just barely got home from the university  
okay  
go ahead  
fire away  
i agree with you  
huh  
i hate the eight and a half percent sales tax  
but on the other hand i don't mind that it's only on you know things that aren't like groceries and that  
it's not on that  
oh yeah  
they do  
in arizona  
uh_huh  
but we have a pretty low income i mean pretty low tax rate here  
oh i think the the sales tax they just got to do something about it  
but that's the [politicalness] of trying to not create any new taxes  
well and i still think that having lived in europe for awhile you know difference in living conditions   are certainly well worth uh what we pay for it  
well i mean i think  
i was in germany you know for several years  
and i'd a lot rather pay taxes here and have what we have then have to live there  
higher taxes  
yeah  
[still's] that way to some extent  
i think the other problem is you know it it's easy to complain about taxes because there's something you theoretically can do something about  
but i look for example  
and you're not quite in the same situation  
but like school taxes for me   biggest bargain in the world  
i wish i didn't have to pay any more to my physicians in a year   than i had to pay for all of my school taxes  
yeah  
that that's probably a little tougher on you  
no  
i think that's just you though  
yeah  
of course i think with the [graying] of america we're going to see that problem in lots of places  
or build roads  

regarding uh taxes i you know  
taxes are really a necessary evil and in a civilized society  
but really people get upset at taxes because you it's more efficient to do things yourself  
and uh and so as as a result uh you know it's it's a trade off you know for the common good you know for for the benefit of others you know  
how much of your resource should you dedicate to uh making things work for others  
have you uh you know ever thought you know just how much of that money should should go to other people that really don't deserve it  
well the thing of it is   if i wanted to just uh you know permanently become a book reader i guess i could just uh you know uh go on public assistance uh you know   look for uh look for people to uh take care of me  
and uh probably a good woman  
right  
just you know just just con somebody to take care of me  
and then you don't have to be on the tax roll  
but uh but taxes are are very difficult kind of thing  
and everybody really hates it  
it was very timely  
i i i always over pay my my deductions  
so i wind up with my   getting money back on my uh from my uh withholding  
so uh you know that that's always a smile  
but of course you know i've i've paid it in  
and i should calculate it better  
no  
i i i work for the f b i  
so i i'm a federal employee  
yeah  
guess i don't sound like it huh  
yeah  
i belong  
oh i i've got all four feet in the trough you know being a federal employee  
and and so but but i can understand that uh that you know the uh who gets benefits  
like every every time there is a a bond issue   you know i vote no on every one of them  
i'm i  
but there  
this is this is tax not tax revolt country  
i mean there's too many  
every one of us most of us have our have all four feet in the trough you know plus our [snout] right up to our ears  
so you know it's not exactly that kind of a place that that you want to you know get into a tax revolt situation  
but uh uh the uh the local taxes here i i  
in this particular area uh you know i've uh i think i pay about uh-oh thirty five hundred for for taxes on my four bedroom house you know   and which is a lot of money  
and uh and so as as people get older and older uh you know they think about retirement and that sort of thing  
and and they they're building old peoples homes uh you know at tax expense  
well i think you know the old people ought to just bail out of here and go where it's cheaper  
at thirty three hundred dollars or thirty five hundred dollars i'm paying in taxes  
why i i could go down to [bulverde] and probably rent a rent a house for that  
right  
you know in in instead it's it's the taxes here  
so  
course i don't know whether i want to go to [bulverde] or not you know   or [seguin] or someplace like that  
but uh there's certainly lots of inexpensive places where the services are poorer  
and and i think really the only place you can really reduce the amount of taxes you pay is to move to an area where the services are poorer  
if you're not going to use them then you want to be in in environment  
that's a strategy i think that the people have to have to take is is how to be able to to [lessen] their cost of living you know  
i'm i'm five or six years before i'm eligible to retire  
and and i'm saying well you know i really can't stay here uh as a [retiree]  
it's too expensive  
i'm going to have go out and you know in you know east fork someplace   and and do my thing you know  
right  
they they redecorated in nineteen seventy five you know  
and they're not doing it again you know  
so well it's certainly uh uh  
you must be a t i employee  
you must be a t i employee  
you're not a t i  
who do you work for  
you you're  
right  
uh well yeah  
i know it's it's a lot you know that uh that i feel like you know just like you said that there's just so much that you can do yourself that you take care of your own self that you don't need the money for  
but they're giving it to other people that don't really need it either  
but yet they accept it  
like so many people do  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
you   are you in business for yourself  
right  
uh well i  
no  
i think that people that work for the government are just as against taxes as as everybody else you know   unless you work for internal revenue  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
after you retire  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
my parents are in the same situation you know  
they their home is paid for  
but still their taxes are so high that you know my father doesn't feel like he can retire because they couldn't pay their taxes  
and they have no children in school or you know anything now  
they don't use any of those services that a lot of the taxes go towards  
uh yeah  
yeah  
you must be what  
no  
i'm not  
i i don't work  
i'm a student  
i go to school  
i'm in nursing school  
okay uh  
well we just got our income tax return  
and i'm perfectly happy  
what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but as far as writing checks out and paying taxes i think it's pretty high  
but i i'm you know  
i i guess it's where we have to be where it we have to keep raising them for to keep some of the things that that we have and   it's just scary though about you know  
how high are the taxes going to be when my children are my age  
you know that that's that's scary too  
because it's not anything like the way it was when i was young and small and a child  
so you know that that's a scary part too that you have to think about  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then you find out about all these things about are your taxes you know taxpayers are is your money going to where you want it to go  
and there's going to a special this week  
i i can't i can't if it's twenty twenty or one of those things where  
uh i think it's one of the local news  
i think they're having a documentary something about that  
about their trying to catch some people that not spending your tax monies right and fraud and that kind of thing you know  
and that's kind of scary too  
and uh so that would be interesting to see  
i wanted to see that program  
oh i know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh  
well you sure do know a a lot  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
what do you think about these items that are going to be uh taxed even more like uh tobacco and that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
oh really  
well let's see  
i haven't got mine yet because my parents are getting all that stuff at uh at home   in the bay area  
so i'm not sure how much i'm getting back  
but i'm pretty sure i should get back a little bit since student  
so  
it's not too much  
not too bad though  
yeah  
it it's one of those necessities of life that we all have to you know pay taxes but although it is kind of a pain sometimes though  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and and   like as time goes on you know things get more expensive  
and because we were increasingly complex society that   day by day things get more uh things get more expensive as well as more complex  
and you know taxes are one of the ways to help pay for a lot of the things that are needed in this society  
i mean everything from you know from medicare to uh to social security to uh to feeding the to uh to you know feeding the homeless to maintaining prisons to maintaining [polices] or fire departments and things like that  
and it's  
now there's more and more things that need attending to and that sort of thing  
and you know   it's it's becoming a larger responsibility  
but someone has to pay for it  
and that's us  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and and even even today it's like the amount of taxes that you know we're paying for  
but you'd think that we're still in that  
this this uh deficit state that  
we're still not able to pay off things just because   the budget's not big enough as it is  
and   makes you wonder when there's you know countries out there that have you know tax rates of like close to fifty percent or higher  
you know it's like fifty percent of everything you make is already gone before you even get it  
and that that's kind of a scary thought  
i hope it doesn't come down to that  
but on the other hand they also while those countries that have high taxes also have things like uh socialized medicine things like that too which are nice fringe benefits of it  
so everyone has everyone has the access to medical facilities as well as the doctors that sort of thing  
and it's good  
but it's it's the price they pay  
i mean it can be [argued] one way or another whether economically it's actually good for the country or good for any given country to have that because those countries tend to be uh as far as cash flow a lot uh have be tend to have a much slower cash flow   and don't generate a larger a a large amount of revenue because there's so little uh currency flow through out the economic system  
well just keeping up with the times that's all  
as as it turns out you know it's one of those one of those interests you know i kind of like to keep up on  
because well it's nice to know that when i'm actually you know i do start working that i like to know where my tax dollars are going too  
work hard to get you know  
i like to know where it's going to  
uh_huh  
i think in a in a way it's good in a way it's not  
uh but i think in general it's probably good  
i mean a lot of things like tobacco and alcohol and things like that have been have been in the past uh have been not taxed because there's been such a large lobby against them against   the taxes for them sponsored by the alcohol and tobacco companies  
and it's things like tobacco are uh they're they're a proven health hazard to smokers   as well as [nonsmokers]  
and it's  
as far as the safety thing in like in san [luis] [obispo] for example there's an [ordnance] which states that uh there's no smoking in any public areas  
and so if you walk into any restaurant or any hotel there's no smoking allowed anywhere  
[arch] how are you doing tonight
oh yeah
fine kind of tired
where am i calling
where are you
lewisville okay
i'm in garland
um have you read anything about how they propose to uh come up with the taxes to increase the funding for schools
what do you think about it equalization of funding uh_huh
uh_huh
but we're not funding them like other states either though you know it
we're not funding our schools like other states either
that's right
but just because we've got a lot of money doesn't mean that's going to solve the problem
i mean i think there's a lot of waste in in schools
i'm a teacher
i feel that
yes
i definitely feel that way all this
money that's being paid for
it's administrators
huh_uh
i can
well they're already talking about freedom of choice
you know for schools
that's an idea
that's true
but like in garland
you can choose the school that you're going to
can you tell this is past bedtime um like in garland
they get to choose the schools that they are going to go to
but they got to have the transportation to them
if it's out of their district you know out of their area
i mean
so
and i like that because you can find out the good schools in your area
so just distribute it equally and not raise taxes
yeah
what do you do
oh so you picked a good field then you picked a good field
well
yeah
but that's not a bad one
yeah
what do you think about a state income tax
but didn't they pass that thing that we were going to have a lottery or not
oh
so what about your income tax think they're hitting you too hard
no
huh_uh
this just keeps accumulating i don't know what else do you think about them
let's see state
and the city tax the sale tax they used to
you really didn't even think anything about it
when you bought something
but now you do
what is it seven point
i don't even know how they figure it really
i'm glad i don't work in a store
because i wouldn't want to have to figure this seven point something percent
i guess they got a little table though
and it's all written out
all right
so you think federal taxes okay state tax you can see the logic of it
but you don't think it would be economically feasible for your family
and ours see both of us are teachers and we got four in our family too
we don't need anymore
but we can do this tax sheltered annuity that's the only thing that's saving us
right
lots and lots of people
before they get it
but still i work in southeast dallas and a lot of my children are from poor you know socioeconomic areas homes and it's just like they always have money they they always are dressed nice you know most of them are fairly nice not like you would think a a poor person would be
and i mean they've always got dessert money or they've always got you know dollars on them and everything
and i'm thinking you know this isn't right
because my children don't have that
yeah
and you give them you know they get their free lunch
and they throw most of it away
but then they have their money to go buy desert
and that they eat
you know it's just you see garbage pans
i mean [pails] just filled and we pay people to haul them off right
and then like a guy does it
and he has his own pigs that he
yeah
it is
oh well is that you got anything else to say i don't think i do
okay
well
talk to you later
then
now dealing on the federal level
two percent is a good choice
but as far as to increase tax revenues coming in you know need to [redesigning] of the entire tax structure itself corporate america is getting away with bloody murder where as people out here are having to pay such a high amount of their actual bring home salary into taxes the corporations are getting off easy because they're actually paying in less than five percent of their gross national product
profit right
if they made a straight across the board everybody pay five percent if their gross national profit was say a million dollars then pay five percent of that
but the um overall it just seems like they've modified the tax laws so bad
just the last five years the rich
it's a definite case that the rich are getting richer and the working people middle class and you know the lower middle class and the upper middle class are having to carry the entire burden as long as you got congressmen and senators that are getting kickbacks from these different companies that are getting awarded for the defense contracts that's never going to happen
the one thing that i had thought about to help correct that problem
you've got career politicians that spend thirty forty years in washington
that's all they have ever done
after they've been there that long
they're so deep rooted with their the old boy network
i think by limiting the number of consecutive terms a congressman or senator can hold whether it be a state congressman or senator or at the national level
limiting the two terms
and then they have to sit out one
i don't think we should ever give them a lifetime income
unfortunately
and they're the ones that have screamed so much about that don't want to increase taxes and they don't want to do this
but every year they vote themselves in a very healthy pay raise
eventually it's going get to the point where there's going to be a majority of the american people that have had enough of what it's finally come to we're getting so far down to where you're being taxed so far down where you can't even afford to change your mind
it's going to come to a point where the average american citizen is going to say we've had enough
well in the form of capitalism that we've got apparently that's not working real good either
maybe not a case of everybody being selfish [everyman] carry their own fair burden but not somebody else's i never put anything beyond as far as when it will happen that i'm not real sure of
if it will happen
i have no doubt
it's the best system
that's right now
but it does need some fine tuning at this point
uh i don't think that i'm paying too many you know too much tax myself
uh i uh as far as uh you know federal and state uh the uh the state
i live in has a five percent sales tax
uh it's quite a bit different than uh texas i don't know if you've ever been outside of texas
but uh when i moved to texas
i was told oh well there's no personal income tax
well they nail you on property taxes in uh texas and then that's how they get their money to take care of the schools and things
yeah
i i found it interesting uh when i moved to texas the fact that uh the reason people wanted to get their kids into plano was to go to the plano school district
because it was the best because it had more money than you know other places
and uh i i just uh in the uh like here in maryland
uh i just bought a uh a house for a hundred and forty one thousand
it would be about sixty thousand down there
and uh the tax basis is actually uh less than the full price of the house
so you end up paying property taxes on what they value the house at i think they only have the house valued at probably about ninety or a hundred thousand dollars
whereas when i was in texas
i notice that they put the tax basis at at almost the uh full price
and so there's quite a difference there
uh i think that the way they they levy taxes is a little bit uh uh crazy
i think if if they uh people and and i'll use plano as an example uh house prices in plano were falling and so they decided well in order to get more tax revenue we're going to have to raise the price
uh you know we're going to have to raise the uh the the uh tax per hundred dollars of value of the house and same time they were [approving] new starts in homes hand over [fist] well when you start having a large supply of homes then of course the price goes you know the value of the house is going to fall
and the existing family homes were the ones that were falling the new homes they were building cheaper
and and able to sell cheaper
and so people weren't buying the existing family homes
so they were shooting themselves in the foot
and you know if they just would have thought well gee if we don't you know if we put a freeze on new home starts that will bring the price of houses back up our tax base revenue will go up
and we won't have to increase taxes and make it more of a burden on people that are living here
no
no
they do have state income tax
yeah
that's
and they uh they divide it up by uh you know you pay a state income tax
and then fifty percent of your state income tax is a county tax which is collected by the state and [redistributed] to the counties
that is correct
uh yes i did i only lived in texas in eighty seven and uh eighty eight
and uh part of eighty nine
no
uh in texas
i was oh i believe the uh sales tax was somewhere around seven eight eight percent
here in maryland
it's only five uh it was nice to have that uh you know deduction when it was available
uh but when they revamped the you know supposedly making things more fair
uh i've heard a lot of different arguments uh pro and con about whether we should allow deductions for sales tax or even uh maybe we should put more emphasis on sales tax
because when you think about it the people that purchase more items are the ones that are better able to pay the taxes you know people that are out there barely struggling to pay their uh house payment and buy food aren't going to be out buying you know anything else
and the people that you know have the uh disposable income that are probably more able to pay the income tax uh or pay the sales tax are the ones that are really you know have the money and they're out there buying the items
maybe they should be you know paying more of the burden uh there there's another crazy thing that gets me it's like the more children
you have the less tax you pay and to me that is completely crazy
and i have five children
so i mean you know i uh
i you know it it's kind of odd when i talk about this with other people because it it just doesn't make sense to me
you're getting more services
you know your children are going you know you've got five children in school instead of somebody that only has one or none
and so you
they're paying more income tax to pay for your children to go to school
it just you know doesn't make sense
uh_huh
yeah
now the other side of the question is about are we getting what we're paying for um for the most part i think we are
but there is a lot of inefficiency uh both on the federal level and on the state level
and uh hopefully you know as we start to go into [computerization] and all the processes maybe we'll be able to [streamline] it
uh i haven't kept up with uh the texas politics other than that dirty little governor fight
but i mean uh we have a a governor here in maryland who's uh pretty hard nosed and uh he's you know we're three hundred fifty million dollars short
and every time he comes up with a plan to cut the money everybody starts screaming and yelling and uh every time he wants to cut one budget or do something else or try to do something you know they start screaming and yelling they won't let him raise the taxes and and they they won't let him cut any programs
and he's like what do you guys want me to do
i mean
uh_huh
yes
yeah
yeah
that
and i think uh putting more emphasis on local handling of the problem i think this is something that that bush came out and said in his uh in his address uh to the nation at the beginning of the year
uh you know it used to be that communities would take care of their own
and that you know the states would take care of the communities and then all of a sudden everybody starting looking to the federal government and uh you know once you start up at the top and try to get those dollars on down to the hands that need them you know there's a lot of places the money stops
and [disappears] along the way
and uh maintenance and overhead
and you know
and and those kind of costs
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i think i think we're always convinced that we're paying too much in taxes without getting back necessarily everything
we'd like to
but so far
i don't think i've paid enough taxes to be too too awfully concerned about it yet
yes
right
right
do you all pay state income tax
neither do we
and and and i agree with the yet part they've just started talking about introducing a state income tax
and right now we pay an extremely high state uh sales tax almost eight percent
wow
right
well that's good
that's i think that's the biggest problem i have with the tax system is there there is such a disparity between between really the haves and the have nots and i i think the things that they use as a basis for distributing back the tax dollars needs to be looked at again
i know that would be a definite b v r m i r
i think a lot a lot of times it seems like the classic can't see the forest for the trees
i i wonder if if they realize the magnitude of some of the red tape you have to go through
and i don't i don't think they're getting their money's worth
and i i i definitely don't think that the added steps are are getting the benefit that they would like them to i think it's just causing most everyone else more problems because if somebody wants to get around the tax laws they will find a way
if they want to badly enough they'll either find it themselves or they'll find someone to do it for them
right
right
and that makes sense
but like you said
i mean it it seems simple
and i think in a way it's so simple that people would be afraid to try it
yeah
yeah
even if you didn't invest in necessarily the best thing you would have so much more to invest you would still be ahead
and that's something that's something i need to learn a lot more about is is under the current structure what is the best thing to be investing in for the future because that's a that's a scary thought you always hear that social security won't be around by the time we're sixty three or sixty five and and need it
and that's a scary thought
no
we still look pretty good don't we
okay
it's been nice talking to you
okay
have a good evening
yeah
i am
uh_huh
in the front end the [wafer] fab
where do you work
uh_huh
oh great
oh wow
you going to [motorola]
oh
oh yeah
oh yeah
were you happy with your return this year
were you happy with your tax return this year
was it negative
okay
i think my biggest gripe is the gigantic federal income tax
i came from a state that paid uh state taxes three years ago
and that seemed to be relatively small compared to like the uh the tax you pay on sales sale items
and um i don't know
i think uh my biggest gripe is with federal indiana
right
yeah
it's a percentage you divide that well you uh how much you paid or something by your federal right
there's a lot of tax breaks for like you know a lot of things
if you're involved in the state like giving to colleges and things like that
then they'll break you for
um not even sure
because i was a student
so i didn't pay that much
but uh
right
and what percent would that be
uh_huh
uh_huh
i know
well you can't deduct for credit card interest
that type of thing
yeah
right
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh wow
what happened
oh my gosh
oh man
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
fifty cents
it's incredible
uh
no
i don't i just got married
i don't have any children
three years
uh_huh
yeah
i think what would cure that problem is to consolidate some of these schools and they wouldn't have so much money going to so many different schools
yeah
yeah
i heard that
really
sounds like t i
i was getting ready to say
yeah
and then all your money goes to overhead
uh_huh
right
yeah
right
in dallas
it might be a little less here in sherman
oh really
oh wow
oh really
well
now if they propose if the if this you know state income tax goes through are they going to lower the sales tax
oh man
think it was like five and a half
percent
yeah
purdue
no
purdue
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
oh great
oh
yeah
they well it's just been the last three or four years
actually they had poor seasons before that
but
yeah
yeah
they've been exciting to watch
supervision yeah
lot of theory um it's pretty it's pretty broad took some engineering courses some math a lot of uh a lot of theory lot of practical like personal um problems and personnel problems
and that type of thing
yeah
yeah
the boss course
well i i've lived overseas you know it's in the army
and i see what kind of taxes they pay in other countries
it just seems as if from the time i've been following politics which was i guess about seventy five really got interested in politics and keeping up with it
it just seems since that time the bureaucratic machine has just gotten so out of control
and then they scream about that that or the uh politicians scream about they're going to try and not raise taxes
but they vote in a raise for themselves every year
i i have trouble understanding the entire concept of foreign i understand going into countries where they've had natural disasters and going in and giving relief aid that way
but paying for their these countries to run their own governments
i i've got a big hang up with that
it just seems like they keep saying we're helping this country or we're helping that country out
wouldn't our money be better spent helping here at at home
that's something i would and that subject in itself
i'd love to see that entire thing [revised] something's got to change
and turn drastically
well we've got
it's not like this country doesn't have the people with the knowledge we've got it
we've got people that are willing to make change
but as long as you've got career politicians that spend twenty five to forty five years in washington playing power [broker] they're not going to do anything to tap out the well
now that's something i would love to see happen
not only in all the states
but in the federal legislatures too
two terms then they got to sit out one
and i think the thing about the ones that are really up there doing what they were elected to do it doesn't matter if they're in that office or not
if they have to sit out a term fine
they're going to be able to do things behind the scenes either in the capacity of the [lobbyist] or in working within their party of of the state or national level to get things [enacted] that's not going to slow them down at all
i think compared to the other systems that are out there without a doubt
we've got probably the best system
it just needs
some fine tuning well the question is who's ready to put their hand on the first wrench and tighten the first bolt trying to get the um politicians to actually [truthfully] report what they did vote for what they didn't vote for when they were actually on the floor at their desk is almost is going to be impossible to do
there is no accountability of them
i don't think i've ever met anybody that thought they were paying too little taxes
so
so i assume that we're going to agree that we all pay too much taxes
but then the question is are we getting what we pay for
and and i think we don't
i think we pay far too much for [bureaucrats] and pork barrel projects
right
well i lived in texas for a long time
so i was really hit hard
by the nine percent california
[tacked] on to the government's yeah
i know texas uh just raised their sales tax again
because uh i was visiting in houston over christmas with my mother
and uh i bought a few things and i think your sales tax is higher than ours now
yeah
well i really do believe that there are huge quantities of money wasted on
unnecessary uh bureaucracy and on just flat stupid things
we have uh hundreds of thousands of dollars going to uh people to supervise people who supervise people
who supervise people
and when it all comes out
they don't do much [supervising] anyway
well actually as a matter of fact that sort of research
i think is worth spending some money on because the uh basic research really is what's made our country uh get to where it is in its
ability to compete
no
i don't mind spending on defense for things that work
but i mind having people spend money to create five thousand pages of documentation to order something
this is crazy
yeah
exactly
yeah
i think the six hundred dollar toilet seat is probably a legitimate expenditure given what the government requires of the manufacturer
the manufacturer's probably not making very much profit on that
but probably five hundred dollars of that toilet seat is going to uh ridiculous kinds of of paper work and supervision um are are you familiar with the grace commission well i don't remember exactly when that started but it was back in the early eighties
i think uh peter grace of w j grace and company
was uh appointed by i believe reagan to um create a commission to investigate government purchasing and expenditures and see if there wasn't a way to save money
and he uh he and his group of course he didn't do it
but he got people to do it came up with a a whole [book's] worth of recommendations for making the government run more like a business and he said that you know the the kinds of things the government does even in renting space would drive a business bankrupt
and uh people purchase things because of the rules that require them to
buy certain kinds of things in certain ways
that are totally irrational
they buy more than they need or less than they need or many times as much as they need in little quantities when they ought to be able to um you know deal like a business and uh get things in quantity that will uh give them a discount
they ought to pay their bills on time one thing the government does is is stretch out the payments
so that they end up paying penalties for things that the government could have paid for
the minute
it was due and taken the five percent
uh credit for early payment
anyway
there was this whole book that came out and i read some excerpts from it
and every single thing they recommended was so [eminently] sensible and it just [astonishes] me that we have not put more of that into practice
and right
and every time the uh congress changes
and people move offices they redecorate the whole office
they spend half a million dollars
on the speaker of the house to [renovate] an office that had been redone less than three years earlier
and then they come up with these crazy projects to do things like spend seven hundred thousand dollars to make lawrence [welk's] birth place a [shrine] i do not need a national park around lawrence [welk's] birth place
and i can think of a whole lot better things to do with seven hundred thousand dollars
well i don't think it does much good
but i write my congressman all the time i've got a congressman who is very concerned about
uh uh irrational expenses
and who is a real [fiscal] conservative
and and so one of the things i do is donate money to his campaigns and uh write to him when i see things that outrage me
and uh i don't know that it's going to help any but if he got if if a lot of congressmen get that kind of input from their constituents maybe they'll do a little something
yeah
yeah
well i'm in favor of spending money on a strong defense but not of wasting it
and some of the things that we do uh like have three different kinds of [incompatible] computer equipment for the three services
it is just dumb
there is no reason why we shouldn't have somebody take a look at uh all of the things that the various services use and make them [interchangeable] then the same spare parts can be used
in air force planes and navy planes maybe
oh
oh yeah
uh_huh
um
well that's good
but that's that's small comfort because it doesn't bring you any income until you sell it
now we don't have uh property taxes going up as much as you all do because we had proposition thirteen that says
once you have had your house appraised then they can only raise the taxes i believe it's two percent or maybe it's three percent a year uh until you sell
and then it's reevaluated
oh
and that's that helps people on fixed incomes and older people who have houses that have gone up in value a lot
but who don't want to move out of them
well the prices are so high
i don't see how they could keep going up
yeah
well i'm in [silicon] valley
and they have the the reason that the prices have gone up so high is that there just isn't any more land left to build on most of the surrounding land is all uh in [preserves] of one sort or other
and it can't be developed
so there's very little property that hasn't already been built on
and one of the problems our city is having is that uh with all of the environmental requirements and the anti development people taking over the city council we've driven out some corporations which were paying a lot of our taxes
and so now they're going to have to [assess] us because they we've driven out the businesses that were paying the [freight] yeah
for instance we have the [stamford] shopping center which was uh paying oh i think it was about a quarter of our uh city budget
because of the sales taxes that were collected there and in this recession a lot of those businesses have had poorer receipts and so their sales taxes have dropped and we're about a million dollars below budget primarily because of the sales tax drop off
and that uh
and also hewlett packard was uh [headquartered] here
and
go ahead
what do you have to say on the subject
and then they're going to tax you on that for or they're going to give you an interest on it
i know somebody that it happened to
now see believe it or not
i'm one of these honest guys
but i get to the point that last year we took a transfer and so therefore we had the boost in the income due to the transfer expenses when i sat down when we were through and i sat down with our accountant
and we did it if i'm not presently working outside of the home if i return to work believe it or not with our state income tax our city income tax city
we live in and city we work in
i would have lost and with social security
i would have lost forty eight cents on every dollar that i earned and well easily just as you said
and i sat down and thought about it
and i should be in a pretty good position because i don't have little kids any more that i need sitters for or anything like that
if i go to work it would be for our fun money
and we realized that how it would disrupt disrupt our travel routine and things like that
and my husband gets five weeks vacation
and we said it's not worth it
i'm not working any more
it just isn't worth it
and you get frustrated and yet i don't know what the uh the texas
rules are
do you pay a state income income tax
you don't
um they
start with one percent
uh sales tax we pay seven percent
you're so you're higher
but you get out of [towners] on that then you get everyone on your state
uh sales tax which is good
as the income tax what's not fair is paying in the city you live in right now we're living where there is a [reciprocity] so if you do pay more in the city you're working
you don't owe your city anything
and this year
my husband's actually keeping track of all his time out of the city of cleveland
so that we can get the difference because our city is a little bit less
right
oh and much less they don't pay you an interest
right
well and it is now to the point that it has gotten so um so complicated i can do ours in a normal year i have always done our income tax
and i've done it with [transfers] and sale of property
but this last time
it was so involved that i just threw it all up and said forget it
let's go see a c p a
well
that's what i understand this one seemed to do well
and uh she did go over our last three or four years
and she said i have to [compliment] you you have excelled she said i cannot find one thing to pull out that you haven't already pulled
and i said well i do keep records all year long as i go one on twice a month one on
well that's what she said i went in there
and i had all my books and i said what do you want to know
and i keep every single thing as i write the checks twice a month i enter it uh in either donations wherever it goes
i do keep good records
uh_huh
yes
absolutely
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
no
i agree with you there
um i've gone to other states where there's no food tax you know some things that aren't taxed at all
and i think that that's really nice
i think they that's what texas needed to do also is to [discriminate] as to uh which should be taxed and what shouldn't be taxed so
uh_huh
no
they do
they do uh_huh
yeah
but i have lived in other states in which they don't uh tax uh food
clothing items personal things like that
and um so that was that was really neat
but i guess the way that they get around it though is that there's no quote state income tax
but then you pay ten fifteen percent taxes
um you know i know that that's only eight and a quarter or whatever it is
but uh
but yeah
i really think there's it's way too much
whenever you buy an item especially a large purchase item it's it's something in which you you're paying
and you've always got to add in that about ten percent tax
in the last what
oh the money that we pay
um well now for the city of plano
um i really like the the things that they offer here
um i and i can't say that for all of dallas or all of texas
um but for plano
i do i really think that i get my my money's worth
uh we seem to be ahead of any other um city in in the things such as uh you know separating out your glass and your paper now
and having the great big you know gallon drums uh keeping plano beautiful
and i think that they really do a good job at it too
so yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
well and i think you get spoiled
and you expect it
whenever you go to any place else
and it's just not quite up to standard or par and it's just like oh gee whiz you know it makes you really appreciate i think uh you know your city and what it has to offer
now as for the state you know i uh uh you know i guess the the highways outside of what metropolitan dallas and houston are okay
yeah
the outside
i mean the state highways i i think you know are pretty uh adequate
but gosh you get into the cities and might as well forget it um
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
so um i i don't know
i'm i'm really glad that they didn't go to the um the the state income tax
um i'm hoping the lottery is going to uh take care of it
uh i know that there's a lot of religious issues and et cetera
um but i i'm hoping that uh in a way people can can see that as a contribution then to the state
um i did live in ohio for a couple of years
and i know that's how they kind of got around
um you know having to uh taxes or increase in taxes was was by the lottery
yeah
yeah
and and i know the people are concerned that it's only going to be the lower you know income people who are actually going to you know be the the biggest [participants] in this um
right
yeah
yeah
absolutely
and um i only saw it as being you know really positive and of course it you know was just a fluke if you won because i really never expected to win and and i never did the big big lottery we're talking about
uh but you know every once in a while
i'd come up with two or three dollars or something
but i felt good in the sense that i was really putting my money the way i felt it was back into uh the taxes and it went actually most of it went to the schools and uh to school reforms things like this
so uh yeah
i i felt really the positive thing
yeah
uh yeah
right
well because i was looking at some of the services that i actually use now i did um uh way back when i did use government uh things such as uh uh food stamps
sure
i guess
i'm trying to think
do we pay too much taxes uh uh well i
it certainly seems like it
i don't know
you know i i i'm not up in the uh in in the high end brackets myself
and so i can just imagine how bad
they would hurt i remember at one point where my dad was paying uh nearly nearly sixty percent tax bracket
and that was just you know it was killing him
yeah
uh i mean other places pay more
and you can look at some place like sweden and you know they they almost all give like seventy percent of their income to the government um they get some different things out of it though
i don't know
i i'm not i'm not terribly pleased with the distribution of of of it
and i think we we spend entirely too much on defense
um although i work in in through a hi tech industry type thing
and and which in large part survives on on uh on defense [contracting] you know
so so i mean i kind of you know biting the hand that feeds you if you really want to start
cutting it hard
but um i don't know
you know it seems like it seems like we ought to be able to get a little bit more uh things ought to be a little bit more efficiently run
and i i i
and i think that we could get by without continually raising taxes
you know i mean i think i think we're at a point where you know it's taxes are a burden
but services come out of it
and uh and things are important
but on the other hand you know they just can't continue to rise forever
they can't continue to grow
you know there's there's got to be some point where people sit down and say okay you know this is enough income to give government services at
and we need to make sure we give good government service at this point
and you know
uh_huh
yeah
right
right
you know that there isn't there isn't the business cycle where where government gets uh gets chopped down you know i mean they they don't they don't go through a restructuring even i b m going through cutbacks right
and you know government just doesn't do it
you know and and and it's because of in part you know necessary [protections] for the worker
but on the other hand there's you know you you you got to plan them in the real world also
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
right
yeah
i mean i think i think you know in general
i'm i'm pretty pleased with the government
you know with america and and a lot of the things that work here
i mean there there's lots of things that don't quite work right
everywhere things don't work right
and some places that really don't work right
and here they they pretty much work right
you know
um but i think you know i mean if if things are going to things that need to change are things that need to be sort of restructuring you know maybe market orientation a little bit more and things like what you're talking about
um you know putting a little bit more of the of the of the business pressures that are that are on everybody else on the government
and uh so that we get a little bit more out of the tax dollars and a little bit
yeah
yeah
i i think my wife's from brazil and i've spent a fair amount of time there
and and you want to see a government system that just doesn't work
you know i mean it's just is incredible
it's just entirely corrupt they have uh you know something like uh seventy five percent or sixty five percent of the able body workers are employed by the government
you know
and so that leaves everybody else you know this other small
well i could do with a lot less than that
i live in dallas
oh good
well i live in plano in that case
oh yeah
i do
yeah
yes
uh_huh
i know
and you know we had no sales tax here about oh i don't know maybe ten years ago we had none at all
and that's how it started with uh four percent five percent
and all of a sudden here we are now
and it's horrible
well it's true
but they did without it all those years
and they keep talking about the state tax
and they'll probably put one in and they'll have this too
so
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well i hope it doesn't
but you know how it goes so
uh_huh
yeah
raise them
oh
oh it will
probably the first season
it's a bit funny about things like that here
they really are
when i came here you couldn't buy beer couldn't buy a drink nothing was open on sunday not even a grocery store
i mean nothing nothing you know
so it was a lot worse
and as more people come in it does get better
but they still have some real funny laws
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh
that is oh
yeah
it is
yeah
oh yeah
that is
uh uh they well they do a little bit
but uh it's it's like next to nothing
i've seen it it's on my when you pay your registration stuff like that
there's a little place
uh_huh
it costs what
yeah
yeah
huh
really
god
yeah
so you haven't been here very long
you haven't been here very long
two years
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
no
i don't i'm a nurse
i work down at presbyterian
yeah
oh it is you know they're supposed to cut you off at ten calls
at least that's what i heard that you could get to do ten calls
and this is like the seventeenth
i guess my basic feeling is that as a middle income tax [payer] i'm not paying too much
if i'm sure that i'm getting value for the dollar
i mean that i guess sounds like a cliche
but uh looking around at a a lot of the infra structure particularly in the northeast here uh you know bridges and roads in terrible shape
and i don't know
i'm sort of overwhelmed by it all
yes
it's entirely possible certainly anything that's been discussed over the the last dozen years or so
or maybe even longer in terms of tax reform or or revenue [reallocation] seems to be concerned with just that you know who's who's going to start getting more and how fast
um i kind of came of age in the sixties and it seemed to me seems to me that the general attitude in the entire country is a lot different then than now
i mean i think there was more a a general sense of prosperity
even yeah
although my
oh excuse me
yeah
i i've never been able to [reconcile] that fact which which does seem to be true
and the fact that the typical middle class family today seems to have you know and expect some what more in terms of uh material possessions and vacations and what not
but back then uh i think there was more of a sense of because there was a feeling of prosperity people didn't mind paying for social programs for instance or public improvements
and today there there seems to be uh sort of a jealous [guarding] of resources by each generation
uh_huh
yeah
pretty much i mean i i paid whatever something on the order of four thousand dollars a year for tuition and room and board and [comprehensive] fee
and uh for those those figures have been [dwarfed] today certainly
well let's see uh yeah
i think taxes are high
but uh yeah
maybe in some cases they're not high enough for instance uh here in my state uh
yeah
we do
yeah
but the reason the sales tax is high is because we don't have an income tax
and uh you know we don't have an income tax because uh basically nobody wants any new taxes
but the [upshot] is that we can't properly fund uh education here
yeah
so like the amount that we spend on education here in uh in the state of washington per per student is is actually in the lower percentile uh i mean is is as long
we are ranked fairly low
but per fifty states yet uh yeah
we expect a lot out of the schools you know we've got because the seattle area
we've got a lot of uh uh high technology industries we've got microsoft here
well microsoft [expects] well educated employees
but uh you know microsoft is only paying property taxes towards uh toward uh towards schools
so
and there are those that argue well they waste too much money in schools or those
or
there there's you know more money doesn't solve the problem
but i feel like in public schools that they uh that they really don't fund it
they don't basically fund it very well
well it's cheaper to to educate uh people who are in the top ten percent than it is to have to
educate the handicapped and the [developmentally] disabled and all that stuff
oh okay
so uh where are you from
just in general
state
new york
okay
i am in new jersey
okay
so uh i guess we're talking about taxes
uh so what do you you pay too much
uh_huh
oh are you like a small business or something or
oh okay
is it feel like uh income averaging or something like that
oh okay
oh
uh so why do you think you don't get anything enough for your value
i mean
oh are you a single
uh
i know singles pay more than married people
i am single
i know that
and i pay quite a bit higher than a married person where if you don't happen to buy a house or something like that
and you don't uh
that's that's the only uh tax uh write off
you can get these days
well yeah buy a [yacht] or some
but i guess they took away that
and they're yelling and screaming about that
uh_huh
yeah
well it depends
if it's you know a regressive tax or a uh progressive tax
well no
yeah
borrowed time actually could be
could be borrowed time
it's like
yeah
uh i know here in new jersey we have taxes for uh just the necessities
and i think it's uh regressive tax which is worse
uh progressive
uh it's like uh you know a graduated tax which means you pay more money as you earn more money
so you have a greater ability to pay you don't really need that extra income to survive
you know
and so the idea behind that is to to uh that's why we have higher tax rates for people who have higher income right
at least suppose
you know that's what progressive tax regressive tax is you can have a flat percentage tax uh across the board
and uh and even tax people for things that they need to live
so if you tax you can tax uh you know medicine or food and uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
sin taxes
you don't need cigarettes or uh alcohol
to live
well to to a degree if uh you know if you're addicted
it's not going to matter
but uh certainly if the tax
i mean here are in new jersey
you have to pay you pay thirteen percent tax sort of value added tax on your utilities so the things you need to heat your home
the things you drink your water you tax water
it's crazy uh you know you you see what you have to go somewhere so you get taxed for that every utility is
actually uh mine's real straightforward uh basically uh you know i take my standard deductions uh on my house which i have a mortgage on
and uh that's usually the big the big payoff part of the year for me because i get a couple thousand dollars back usually
but uh actually i uh i don't really [begrudge] uh the uh the government their due i i do think that uh probably just like just almost anybody else that you know there's a lot of inefficiency in how they distribute taxes
and i don't think that they uh do a very good job of distributing them to the people who really need them
but uh generally i think they're pretty necessary
and life would probably be a lot worse if they didn't have taxation so
yeah
we we actually had a situation here where uh our house was appraised you know every year
by the county
and we have to uh pay taxes on the basis of what that appraisal was
and first year we owned the house uh that appraisal was something like twenty five thousand dollars higher than we had just bought the house for
and so uh despite you know a lot of [kibitzing] by our neighbors and stuff i decided to go in to uh talk to the board of equalization uh in prince william county and make sure that you know a mistake had not been made and all that kind of stuff
and so i just sort of made my case on the basis of uh you know
analogy to other to other houses around us that were similar in terms of square footage you know and size all
and and you know general property size things like that
and just showed that you know our for some reason our property had been valued much higher and uh they bought it
uh they didn't raise my [neighbors'] yeah
they actually reduced mine to be in line with uh a more reasonable appraisal so i you know i i realized well the you know few instances you can fight city hall on things like property taxes
but uh
yeah
it was it was an interesting experience because the guy before me went in and he had a really kind of poorly organized discussion you know i mean he was sort of mad at the world
and uh he he had sort of that mad at the world attitude right off the bat which you could you know see a mile away
and then he uh then he started talking about all the things that were wrong with this property you know like you know the leaves hadn't been cleaned out in two years
and the [gutters] are falling off
and you know a lot of really minor stuff that just didn't impress these guys at all
and they sort of gave him a hard time
but uh you know when i pointed out that that our house was appraised at this and all these similar houses in the subdivision were appraised at you know twenty five thousand dollars less
i mean
yeah
so it it it worked
it was actually pretty uh pretty satisfying experience
it was the it was the county
but it wasn't the council they have different people on this board of equalization i don't know
i don't even know how they get on it you know i i'm just guessing they're appointed
uh one of the guys is actually a kind of a well known realtor around here
so you know i i figured if anybody gave me a hard time it would be him
yeah
but other than that uh i haven't had too much too much problem with the taxes actually when i was in grad school i lived in virginia
also i went to school down at uh [charlottesville] and uh uh i had a you know one of these graduate [fellowships] and fortunately it was not [taxable] at that time because they actually [hassled] me over it though
and i had to i had to go to some length you know i actually got one of these letters that that said you know you got to show up at the local you know i r s office and explain
yeah
and actually explain you know what was going on
and you know i just i said hey i mean it's tax free
i mean that's my understanding of things
so anyway eventually they they accepted that that it was
but actually i work with a guy now whose i i i guess he was
i agree
i'm particularly worried about social security since i'm at the end of the baby boomer generation
and there's not going to be any money left when i get through
so i kind of feel like i'm supporting a lot of people and that it's just going to go into a hole
i don't think that i'm going to get anything out of it when the time comes from it
other than that
yeah
yeah
right
everybody there's not going to be enough people to support us when we get our age
up that way
but we'll be supporting we're they're we're a lot of people right now supporting a few people and then when the time comes and it's a few people supporting a lot of people
it's not going to even out very fairly that way
i don't have to
i don't worry about the other
i don't have state taxes really because i'm from texas
so i'm happy with that
i'm worried about it though
because every year they sit there and try to put more taxes in you know
and they're trying to get property tax in our county
but
yeah
there's so much administration and nothing when it when it comes right down to it
the overhead
is it everything gets eaten up in overhead and doesn't actually do much
yeah
i was thinking
the other day you know it was like
no taxation without representation
and so long ago
and now we're just eaten alive by all this government that can't
pay for itself and goes into debt more and more and more and more
and we don't have much say about it
and the government doesn't seem to do a be doing a whole lot of things i like either
they're going
yeah
and then this national endowment for the arts thing where they they put [pornography] up in the in the name of art you know
and make me pay for it
my you know i i don't exactly appreciate that either
and i really get frustrated when government starts to do things that are [immoral] and then expect me to support them on it
first you get to the point where it's like you feel like protesting by not paying just to make them understand that they can't do this
just because you know it's our money they're using for it they can't just think well it's ours
now we got it
we can do what we want with it
it says that i'm standing it it says i approve if i sit there and pay it
and i get kind of upset about that
well that's good
yeah
you start to feel real [powerless] but on the other hand at least we're we're [powerless] in a lot ways
but then there's so many other countries that i'm glad i'm not in you know it seems to me like the minute you starting putting in the radical changes in anything you end up with something like uh [liberia] or [czechoslovakia] you know i mean it seems like i'd rather try to work from inside the system to change something than to throw away what we've got now
it would be pretty frightening the other way around
it's kind of scary
now seeing the way
it it it's the type of thing of what exactly
am i
getting out of the taxes and to some extent there is definitely you know you can say all right
i'm paying this money for this and this is what i'm getting back in terms of roads and highways
and you know i guess quote unquote retirement if it's actually there when we actually
end up retiring there seems to be some you know some question on whether there will be actually money there or not what i don't like about the taxes is
i was looking through the i r s forms like uh the other day
i noticed that fourteen percent of the amount of money that we pay in for taxes each year
is just going to pay the national debt
that that is the interest on the debt
ourselves
uh to a large extent
i mean one of the i think i'm not sure if it's the largest but i know a large segment of the national debt is uh you know things like savings bonds and other government obligations well not not just private but there's you know lot of public institutions that are holding money as well as a lot of uh foreign companies and foreign persons that holding that
but
yeah
non governmental yeah
you know treasury [certificates] and u s savings bonds and whatever
right
well it's actually uh you know also looking at the same form they had that we are the u s is borrowing eighteen percent of the amount of of of whatever it's spending every year
yeah
so we're borrowing eighteen percent and fourteen percent of what we're paying out is going to pay the eight the uh debt
so so we're borrowing money to pay you know fourteen percent that we're borrowing goes directly paying out to the debt
yeah
so we're you know net we're doing a net borrowing of four percent each year and then we're doing a borrowing on top of that a fourteen percent
that just goes to pay interest on the debt
that i don't know
i don't know if uh other countries work as a deficit or not
i from what i can understand it's only recent within maybe the last fifty years or so you know except for [wartimes] that
the u s has had a [peacetime] debt
yeah
yeah
i i think if you look at some of the uh government spending [curves] uh you know the the [curve] always went up around wartime and then dropped back down
after world war two
it never dropped back down
or
it was world war two or uh korea
i think
it never dropped back down
well you know
definitely
one thing is to say hey we have a year to year balanced budget
yeah
so you know you know maybe raise taxes for a few years until that debt gets paid off
and then say you know unless there is a tremendously bad circumstances like a war or something we should not be running a deficit economy you know it's
i mean if you look on the individual level if i were to borrow eighteen percent of what i was spending every year
year after year i would very quickly get in trouble with [creditors] uh yeah
well that's you know the post wartime germany they just kept printing up money
and you know became worthless
so that's one danger
but you know it's that that's a very large chunk of the money we pay in for taxes each year
oh really
yeah
kind of curious because i'm some people found about it on the computer network
others
yeah
yeah
on the uh uh there's a network like around the world
and uh there's a telecom digest
yeah
taxes
right
yeah
hold on a [sec] i'm on a i'm on a cordless it's giving me some trouble jeez that make it better
yeah
yeah
uh-oh
you you didn't press it yet
did you
no
okay
uh i don't know
see uh i'm a student
i don't pay much in taxes
except for when i work
that's a little bit
yeah
uh um
a broad base tax in terms of
okay
i have an answer for that
i have an answer for that
okay
go ahead
yeah
okay
uh i think a progressive the way it is now is is good uh taxing uh those people with more money uh taxing them a little more i mean those people can afford to pay it out
i mean it it wouldn't be fair to uh like say lower class people who don't make as much money to uh pay out the same amount of taxes as someone making millions of dollars
yeah
okay
yeah
so you're saying uh ten percent let's say a broad base ten percent tax
uh without any loopholes or
right
is who
yeah
right
um yeah
i see the i see the logic behind that
yeah
right
to
yeah
promote borrowing with tax breaks promote investment
yeah
right
personal tax
right
i think that
think something like that luxury tax was a mistake
did they did they repeal that yet
because i mean yeah
you're uh trying to get back at trying to sort of maybe punish i don't know the rich and make them pay some more
but it what happened
the the result was that uh sales went down in [yachts] and those kind of things
we're supposed to talk about if we agree on if we're paying too many taxes or if we're getting our monies worth out of the taxes we pay
no
yeah
i think here in texas
they're even running an a a series right now on the news one of the news channels at night about they were like secretly uh [supervising] people that were supposed to be working for a county here
and they were hired by the state
so they were being paid with our tax money and they weren't even doing the job they were out working on other sites not doing a thing on what they were supposed to do
right
right
yeah
yeah
i think that we pay enough taxes and i think that if if everybody would be honest with how they dealt with the tax money if we could somehow get the same uh ability to get work done
and be honest about it with our tax dollars
i don't think they'd need to raise it
and i think they'd be able to handle with what we've got i feel like here in texas we pretty much get our monies back
out of what we pay
i feel very pleased with what they do
they've put in you know as far as the state taxes go
i don't know about our federal money
i think that's all pretty
i hope that they're doing better with not spending so much more than what they've got
but you know you just never
you can't control that
but in the state here
they've put in bike trails they've got really nice parks here in texas they keep their their their lots that they own that are green and stuff they keep them really nice uh their schools here are really good
and updated they've got computers in the schools i'm very pleased at least with the area that we're in with how they spend their money their their they don't tax us outrageously
and they seem to really give us a lot for our tax dollars
they offer community classes for our kids to go to that are just very minimal costs you know just cover the instructor
and uh there is lots of opportunities that you can take advantage of there are community colleges here you can take for just practically nothing
uh they just offer so much for
i feel like what we pay in our taxes that i don't mind paying them at all
uh_huh
yeah
right
right
so you're not as pleased with your tax dollars
and what they're doing in new york
yeah
that could be
i don't know
all right uh
excuse me
yeah
okay
all right
so uh
yeah
yeah
oh you think that we are paying too much in taxes
uh_huh
yeah
it's even higher uh tax rate over there on income
right
are you you're a you're from the united states
but you worked over there for a couple of year
yes
right
you talking about special projects in the the u s in the u s you mean now
okay
yeah
it's true
i feel that um you know i don't feel that we're paying too much taxes provided we get the right services for what we pay for
but i think we've kind of gotten away from that um for what we get we're paying too much
i would say
right
or if if things i didn't feel that things were wasted for uh
you know through uh red tape through waste you know a lot of money is lost and how much effect are you getting out of your dollar and how much goes to just waste
right
right
typically um you don't get a whole lot
well right
a lot of federal money goes for highways but speaking of um people who are on welfare i know one of the presidents patrick buchanan has a idea that says that if he's president if you don't get a job within two years then you're taken off welfare so to eliminate people who continuously uh kind of [leech] off the system you know you you have you get to spend your time
but then you're off
yes
well i i guess i'm not i don't like to make hard
and fast rules that you have to live by because there's always exceptions but i think something has to be done some type of reform measure yeah
right
um
yes
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i don't know what's your situation
i live uh i'm a property owner in the city limits of atlanta
and we get taxed tremendously on our property taxes and a lot of that money doesn't go for what the original intent of property taxes was um i pay for a local hospital uh [grady] hospital where a lot of indigent people go and get free care
okay
ray what do you think about taxes
uh_huh
yeah
i agree
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh so you've got you you have a little [graft] and corruption huh
yeah um
yeah
you know the waste you know that's i think uh
i i think that's a big problem uh uh i don't do you think you get some good services for your taxes
do you have a good school district do you have
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
around fifty percent
yeah
yeah
that's that's pretty much
i think nationwide it's you know the average is about seventy five percent uh complete school you know twenty five percent dropout rate throughout the country
for school districts i'm not sure how they figure that out if they do per [pupil] or if they look at just averages per school district and things like that
but some schools uh i don't know
see i i live in a small community
and um we don't pay much in taxes
i don't uh this sets this is a farming community
and the farmers control your property taxes basically
and in the sense you services
we have uh probably what's considered the third worst maybe the fourth worst school district in the in the in the state other than the city of baltimore itself probably you know which is always i guess a low a low streak
so actually i think for the return on my taxes for my my my uh state taxes that go to my school district
and my services and whatever
i think i get a pretty good return
but my employment tax you know the federal i don't think i get a good federal return at all
i think locally i think property taxes on my house were twelve hundred dollars
and that was that included state and local taxes
so that was school district and snow [plowing] which isn't probably anything like that you have
and that included my water and sewer
um but i didn't think that was too bad
uh_huh
do you own a lot of property just a or a small lot
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
oh do you
see we don't do that
uh_huh
uh everything on top of that
yeah
see i
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
you mean you have a full time fire department
is that what you have now though in your town
oh how many about how my goodness
see that's see that's down here um being a member of
we have we have a couple full time firemen but basically you know they train the guys
and they run the show
and they live in the [firehouse] and you know
and then most everybody else is volunteer
so there's like a core of like each station has like two or four full time then everybody else is volunteer
yeah
um
yeah
oh that just federal taxes just more and more and more and less and less services you know
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
such
it's just out of hand i you know the the whole idea like around here um you know after desert storm or whatever
we have a plant here that feeds one of the military contracts that should be cut you know that they [advised] on cutting but because of desert storm now they said well we can't cut it
so they put it back in action now granted everybody around here was happy because it keeps two or three hundred people employed
but you know if we don't cut some of these nationwide you know some of these expenses just have to be cut if we don't need such a large army
and we don't need if the military comes out and says we don't need all these planes then why does congress say tough take them anyway you know
yeah
right
uh_huh
right
with a one thousand dollar [antitank] weapon
yeah
and you know million dollars
do you know how many people that would feed and clothe and get off the welfare rolls and get
and keep in school
and you know if we uh i just
in some ways i just don't
uh_huh
that's right
oh i agree with you a hundred percent
you know our direction has really you know solar energy uh you know there's been some recent great discoveries in solar energy surprisingly because there's there's no money invested in it
yeah
a big thing
uh_huh
yeah
a flexible solar material
that it can be [woven] over top of something
it could be it could be put on the top of airplanes to help power the plane you know it uh it just it could be put on the top of automobiles too
right
god
they just keep yeah
it's that just
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
and highways
see that's a big problem we have um i'm originally from pennsylvania
and the biggest problem we have in pennsylvania
is that almost every bridge that in pennsylvania was built during the eisenhower administration uh within was in the city of pittsburgh
and there yeah
because see they eisenhower put through money for uh though it probably didn't affect boston it went
uh a highway from new jersey west
oh i've i always felt i was paying too much for everything
that's part of my problem i wonder if we wouldn't be better off uh with a little more free enterprise than having the government do some much for us
that's one of my i don't know
those are some of my feelings
i think free enterprise does it for a better price
yeah
it doesn't it doesn't seem like we really get our uh i don't know
i don't think we get the best for the buck if that's that's a good way to put it
but uh uh did do you live close to uh you know to a government installation of any kind
or
uh i guess you know it from the contract side
yeah
my father worked uh for the government uh here in utah at the hill air force base
for uh you know that was the occupation that he had all the time i was growing up
and we got a good living out of it
but i know just from talking with him there were it was like you said there are a lot of things that go on that just make you wonder
that they don't really even get the best out of the people that are working for them
so it makes me wonder where we're where we're going with that
yeah
well uh they provide a lot of services that we don't
that you know we don't really fear no others
i guess
but it just seems like if if we had you know some kind of uh private enterprise system
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah uh
i think that's a really good point
i think you know welfare is one one of the big problems
and it's interesting that
and uh anyway interesting to me that like in the foreign in russia and most areas where they are having their struggles right now you know they are going to have to have a welfare system
in order in order to improve their life over there
and i hope they don't pattern theirs after our
uh_huh
um
your monthly taxes will be as high as your monthly payments
yeah
that is the
huh
that that is scary
cause that really makes you wonder what they are doing with that
i uh
uh_huh
and what what do you think you get out of your taxes your property taxes
taxes right
you think you pay too much is what they said
and do you think you get what you pay for
yeah
right
well i really feel in some areas that uh
i agree
i don't think any of us like paying taxes i think in some areas we could do better in the private sector
i think it just i've done some reading on this and and in some areas you know you're lucky to get back a a dime on a dollar on some programs uh but i also know that people to me won't do what they should do to help each other
and they wouldn't have so much government if we did
and uh we get you know gets forced into it
i think socialized [medicine's] coming which i hate to see
but i think because there's so many people without insurance
that's what's you know it's coming
uh_huh
so uh but no
i don't probably feel like i get back what i pay now you do you pay state income tax in
yeah
see
here a lot of people think in texas
we're lucky because we don't pay uh state income tax
but they get us in other ways you know
um
yeah
yeah
i think that's another problem
yeah
well that's where they got us here
i mean every time they need something they up the quote user's fees or the sin taxes you know on beer and
yeah
so just because we don't have a state income tax
they get us proportionately higher in other areas
so
i don't know
no
they get it somewhere
and and the problem is with that if you have a state income tax you take it off your federal but we can't take our any of our sales taxes or anything off anymore because of the reform but that's what they up it they up it on gasoline they up it on uh say beer and cigarettes uh user's fee driver's license license plates it all just keeps going up and up and up and they tell us
it's not really taxes you know
but it is
and uh
no
i don't know
i don't know what the answer is to all this
i think uh
i don't know
right
right
right
well that's really unusual
right
right
that we've learned a lot
yeah
i i'd have to agree
i'm uh right now i'm in in atlanta but i grew up and am from uh [utica] new york
so uh i understand
and i agree with the new york situation
right
right
right
right
well uh it's kind of tough to tell i haven't really got no good feel for it yet the uh i've been down here for only six months
so uh they're not i don't think they're quite as bad as they are in new york state
i guess is my opinion right now uh there is like there are there is a tax on food here which is you know a little bit different because they don't have that up there and other than that right now they're starting to realize that their taxes are low
but they also realize that they still have to make sure their roads are [paved] and so on
so they're starting to talk about uh raising like instead of registering or uh getting your license which costs five dollars now they decide well maybe we should charge forty dollars for it
right
yeah
yeah
that'll right
of course
of course no
that seems like we're in from your state you're pretty much your main concern is
yes
you sit there and to allow um you know taxes like crazy
and all you do is see all the money go in a big [funnel] towards new york city
oh yeah
uh_huh
yeah
they've been talking about doing that here too
but they haven't they've almost been able to push it through
but people started complaining and
yeah
yeah
right
right
yeah
yeah
that's down here
they're uh
i'm amazed at the one cheap thing down here is gas i'm not sure what the price is up there
but that down here it's only like eighty nine cents per per gallon
yeah
i was home over at christmas break
and it was
i saw the gas prices and thought boy what a switch
yeah
oh sure
yeah
yeah
well as soon as they get near memorial day people start traveling and everyone knows it
so we've got to raise the gas prices
so
yes
i know i and i just i actually had filed earlier and got my refund tonight
actually small
but small
but uh i got
oh
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
well it's pretty frustrating when you see the whole situation
all right  
amy how are you doing today  
all right  
i think we know what we're going to speak about  
uh i tell you what i'll start off  
how's that  
um i personally think to set a mark with the judicial system and we're talking about criminals   criminal cases that they should bring back hangings on weekends   in public places  
there is one state that does that by the way  
i want to say oklahoma  
i saw something the other night about it  
they don't do them real often   which is obviously the death penalty  
um but i think if we quit uh building these [taj] [mahals] with the color t v and sixty sixty thousand a year to keep an inmate in there on a on a on a life sentence we should start hanging them and get it over with  
and let's just screwing up the system  
that's pathetic  
that's pathetic  
this is true  
an and the way the law reads uh if they sentence you to life in prison then he's available for parole  
if it's life and a day then he's not eligible for parole  
so what you know  
let's quit b s with the system  
exactly  
a life for a life  
the old charles manson case  
i mean the guy is really   just shouldn't be allowed to to even even live  
uh about the issue about sentencing by the judge  
the the judge presently has an opportunity to [intervene] uh when there's a my understanding when there's uh a verdict  
and it  
for example there's a hung jury here in fort worth today in eight to four  
and bam bam the guy got off  
uh he was he was a veterinarian and killed two a father and a son okay  
uh it kind of gets back to the second request  
we've been asked to look at is most criminal cases requiring an unanimous verdict  
in a situation like that i'd say no  
let's just go like a regular vote  
eight to four tells me that there were eight  
there's a certain percentage of the people there with sixty percent of the people uh seventy percent of the people said hey   they guys guilty  
exactly  
exactly  
because it's not next day they have the start the trial it's x number of months and just [prolongs] the situation that much more  
i think that that if it's if it's not a split decision go with the highest number  
and let's just get on with the program  
but as far as the sentencing by the judge i would have to vote against that since there is a jury because that's what the juries are for is to make the decision  
uh what are your feelings  
um  
yeah  
i get back to [price's] comment when he uh was found guilty he said well he didn't have any blacks uh you know from his neck of the woods  
well give me a break you know  
exactly  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean you're you're in dallas  
so everybody  
i can't believe they can  
uh like in a murder situations they look for juries who don't know anything about the system well or know anything about the the occurrence  
you'd have to be pretty dense  
you'd be you'd either have to be in a cave not to know what's going on or moving it to lubbock   or somewhere possibly is not the answer  
this is true so true  
well this has been an interesting conversation  
so you're at the house you're not at the plant  
oh that's good  
that's good  
i thought i heard a holler there in the background  
but i wasn't sure  
oh goodness  
well i'll let you get  
i enjoyed it  
bye  
fine  
fine  
yeah  
okay  
you go ahead  
uh_huh  
in public places  
really  
what is that  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well the sentences are so unbelievable  
i just saw on the news last night that they said the average time a sentenced murderer you know is in jail is two years before he's paroled and a rapists is like six months   and a burglar is like two months  
because they just say there's either no room in the system you know in the jails for them  
or you know it's just that it seems like the automatic sentences if if a judge has leeway on what he's going to you know sentence someone for between you know two months and fifty years and you know what's his whim to decide it should be two months  
you know it's crazy  
yeah  
well even if it's life like you say we end up spending sixty thousand dollars a year to keep some you know [joker] in there for life  
we could spend that money you know for children that are starving or twelve million other things would be more useful than that  
so to me if somebody has life you know beyond a reasonable doubt they should that should be it  
you know particularly for some of these really i mean  
there are so many just major major serial murders  
it's not just like one instance or something it's just uh [horrifying] some of the murders that go on  
yeah  
an  
yeah  
there's just everyday you hear on the news of another one like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i heard about that on the news  
right  
rather than have to retrial the whole whole thing and spend all the money for people to uh you know go back to court and all the lawyers  
and i mean it just winds up costing the taxpayers a you know a fortune to keep doing that  
and the victims you know the family of these people that have been murdered they just have to have it dragged on for years and years before they ever get any resolution  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well if i  
i saw on one of the talk shows this woman judge i believe from florida  
and she just has just really stiff penalties  
and i saw that in in the hands of a judge that really was conscientious and really you know took the pains to give a sentence for what was [deserved] it could you could have a a judge that would really make a good impact  
but likewise you could have the flip side and have some judge that was paid off or you know had a good old boy network  
or for whatever reasons you know politics just let all kinds of people through  
so he he would have a heck or she would have a heck of a lot of power you know if used wrongly  
so at least the jury system does something to prevent that you know or help it with it anyway  
i don't know if it prevents it  
but seems like the jury system does have it's advantages  
but i also i've also heard on trials that sometimes they go through like three hundred jurors before they hand pick these jurors that they think are going to be the ones that are going to be the most lenient you know  
and i don't know how much they're getting just a jury of their peers at that point they're really getting a select group  
it's not just random people  
it almost should be the first twelve people that they you know have on a list are the ones that are on the jury  
and that's it  
he'd have to have his whole family up there for him to feel like he's got his peers or something  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh they'd have to move it to taiwan for people not to know about it practically  
yeah  
yeah  
well really this is breaks up my afternoon from changing diapers and [mopping] floors i mean  
what can i say  
no  
i'm at home with two little preschoolers  
my husband works for t i  
oh yeah  
i've got the dog and two kids waiting here  
i'm just locked up in the laundry room  
okay  
thanks a lot  
bye bye  
here we go  
i sure was  
two years ago i spent some fourth of july to labor day on a jury that was uh a change of [venue] from columbus ohio for aggravated uh murder and kidnapping  
yeah  
it was quite a session that disrupted my whole summer of course   five days a week  
but it was an absolutely fascinating experience  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think that there are many cases where uh the judges probably do make the decision rather than the jury  
our situation was somewhat different uh in view of the fact that uh we haven't we were a landmark case  
it was the first time in the state of ohio that um d n a testing was entered as evidence  
and they were being  
the judge was being especially careful that everything was done correctly so there couldn't be a a mistrial of any kind  
uh the um uh the interesting thing was the tremendous selection of jury process uh that we experienced  
that took one full week uh to get forty three people qualified to sit on the jury  
and then it was a matter of the selection of uh twelve people after that  
actually it was fourteen because we had two alternates  
and the judge was extremely concerned for our welfare if we were well if we were comfortable and uh things of that nature which made us feel good  
uh and we were sequestered  
but the makeup of the jury uh was truly a cross section of uh you might say a cross section of a country  
there was one other person besides myself we were the only ones that had ever been to college  
um one was a former student of mine a few years before who was out of work uh  
two others were ones who had never finished high school and were out looking for jobs  
yet  
um a couple of them were housewives who had never worked  
and then some are people who did work  
so we had quite a cross section of black white and women and men  
and uh it uh it was interesting just to listen to the rationale uh being proposed and the logic of some of the people uh  
it was also extremely difficult to stay awake sometimes because there was so many witnesses  
and we were not allowed to take any notes of any kind  
uh and i thought that that was a failing because uh from the standpoint that it was difficult to try to remember everything  
and and yet the judge said well um if you're taking notes you're missing something  
and he was right   there also  
but uh i certainly um  
i think it depends upon how the judge handles the case and if the criminal chooses to have a three panel judge uh a three judge panel i should say i think he can   have that rather than trial by jury  
uh_huh  
you're kidding  
yes  
and money  
yeah  
yeah  
i do think that that uh  
i do think the jury system works  
but i'd i also feel as you said that the original concept of the jury as it was originally setup uh back uh in a hundred years ago was fine but that it needs to be more refined for today's standard of living and the the uh level of education of them of so many people now uh  
by the same token we had um uh some people who wanted had vacations planned  
and one man in particular had reservations made plane tickets made everything  
and the judge called and had it all canceled so he could get his money back  
and then he wasn't selected on the jury  
and then another young fellow had to meet with the judge and the prosecutor and the defense attorneys on three different occasions before he was finally excused from the jury because his wife was about to have twins  
and they had he had to go through all of that if in three days to get excused from that jury to be with his wife on the birth of the twins  
and uh you know some of it just seemed rather extreme  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
well i guess he'd have to be careful whether with [entrapment] or some of those things  
but uh i don't  
i assume you have seen on television recently as probably the whole country has the beating of the man in los angeles  
isn't that terrible  
and uh you know   and that certainly uh cannot be said to be uh something that happens everywhere  
but the fact that it can happen that it probably does happen in many places it's it's horrendous  
and it's just a stroke of luck   that someone was able to get it on tape and then uh to listen to the tape recording uh at the police station of the whole conversation afterwards  
yeah  
absolutely  
well we get a few other case   uh like up at the end of last year where one police officer it was on a drug [raid] uh was trying to extra extricate um a confession or information from a drug dealer and did so by placing a hot a hot iron on his chest his bare chest burned him  
they wound up paying him uh  
the officer of course was fired  
but they paid the defendant uh three hundred thousand dollars or something to drop the lawsuit  
and then last week someone shot and killed the former policeman  
so uh as  
some of those things uh are absolutely horrendous  
and we do need an an overhaul  
and we just need more discipline country wide  
it would  
then we'd need it on that  
yeah  
well it's been very nice talking with you  
yes  
and uh good luck on on calls  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
okay  
um have you ever been involved in any trials  
wow  
sounds like it  
oh it sounds like it  
i haven't had any actual real life experience  
but uh my father in law's been involved in uh several trials including uh a couple murders and uh you know talking to other people who have been there  
and so i don't have any real experience with trials  
but i do you know  
i i've i took a little business law in in college  
and and i've you know  
try to keep abreast of things  
but uh  
i think that the uh trial by jury is is a great idea at it's [inception] back two hundred years ago  
um right now though it's it's so difficult because there's so few courts to to get anything really done as you know you spent you know a whole summer on one trial  
and it's just that i think they're just [tieing] up the um whole judicial process  
um there's a lot of things they could do to uh make things easier and uh you know like uh the suggestion that uh maybe be uh a judge should be the one who decides on what the sentence should be rather than the jury  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
jeez  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
gee  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
i agree  
uh would surprise me that uh  
when i was in texas i had the uh [displeasure] of getting a uh traffic ticket  
and um i went to court  
and you can even get a trial by jury for a traffic ticket  
no  
and i thought my god talk about [tieing] up things for for  
yes  
i mean that's extremely expensive  
i mean the first thing you had to do when you came before the judge was waive your right to a jury trial  
i'm like god   this is ridiculous  
uh_huh  
oh my god  
yes  
i i think they can probably come up with some ways to insure that uh you know people would get a fair trial   and not have to go through this process  
i mean some things are just so cut and dry  
um in the in you know the the level of evidence that they come up with now i mean you know when you start thinking about well they've got video tape and and audio tapes  
and they've they've got you know they've got ways to nail people   to the point where they they really shouldn't even be going to trial  
yes  
oh that was horrible  
that it  
yeah  
yes  
i know  
i mean i only heard portions of that  
but it's absolutely   terrible  
and you know if you beat a dog like that they'll put you   in jail   you know  
jeez  
huh  
yes  
i   i believe that too  
well it's been nice talking with you  
okay  
thank you  
you do the same  
bye bye  
what do you think about uh the way the criminal justice system handles trials  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think the six is called a grand jury  
and that's mostly to decide whether or not the person's actually going to stand trial  
whether they're [acquitted] or whether they're actually going to be accused of you know   and held over for trial  
yeah  
i don't know  
i i think that uh  
i know that judges aren't supposed to be crooked  
however  
yeah  
it seems like if you break the sentencing away from the jury and give it you give it to one person you're letting there be a whole lot more of an opportunity for something to either go wrong  
or for you know  
if if if the judge is not of high moral standards   he could be bought off much easier   than twelve people could  
uh_huh  
it's not so much that i that i haven't seen a lot of really bad sentences passed either by trials or by judges   what bothers me is that uh they really don't mean anything  
someone could be sentenced to thirty five years  
and yet you know the the parole system it's going to let them out in in three years for good behavior  
no  
it's not  
uh_huh  
oh i think they're all overcrowded  
they've uh  
i think i heard fort worth that uh they've been ordered to do something because their jail is so overcrowded  
they're not allowed to accept any new inmates  
now what are they supposed to do  
well no  
i mean they're not allowed to accept any new inmates  
so what are they supposed to do with people that they need to put in jail  
you know  
there yeah  
uh_huh  
something that is working  
and i i really like the system of house arrest where a a   someone's wear someone wears a bracelet   like a ankle bracelet that's a monitor  
and they are not allowed  
i mean some of them are even allowed to work  
they can go to their regular job  
they come home  
they have to be home by such and such a time  
they're instructed uh so that this this electronic monitor   is turned on at at a certain time  
and it [connects] them up to a system where they know their whereabouts  
and uh they can put a  
they usually install a video monitor in the house  
and when the parole officer calls to check on them they're instructed to turn it on and stand in front of it   so that they can see that this person is actually at home in their house doing what they're supposed to be doing  
and that's working rather well  
that's a good system  
that allows people   to actually continue to be productive members of society while they're you know   paying back for whatever crime they've committed  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i i've really  
i could go on for hours about the criminal justice system and what i think we ought to do about it  
but   something that i really don't understand is when someone goes to jail   and they have a job in jail and they work that they should  
i  
and this may sound cruel  
but i do not think that they should be allowed cigarettes  
i mean they're in jail for crying out loud  
what do they need cigarettes for  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i think that's a wonderful idea  
more than that  
more than that  
i know  
the thing that   the thing that gets me is that while we're supporting them   they're working  
when they get out of jail they get handed all that money  
that really ticks me off  
i think that while they are in jail and they are working their wages   should go  
like i don't know  
they could  
some percentage like eighty five percent of their wages should go toward their room and board   figured on a whatever basis how much it costs to actually support them for a year  
and when they get out they should have a i don't know you know some reasonable amount of money   to start like a couple of thousand dollars  
but there should be a limit over which they that it all goes back to the state  
anything that they've earned while they're in prison should go back to the state except for that you know there needs to be some allowance for when someone gets out that they have some money to start with  
exactly  
absolutely  
that's the part that i really think we need to change  
has nothing  
right  
absolutely  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think it works much better if it's if it's the actual jury  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
in some   cases it would work that way  
in some cases it would work the other way  
the jury would would slam them  
and   and i think that that the jury probably has more of a right to sentence than the judge all the time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's probably a much fairer way  
yeah  
yeah  
it might be more  
it would be more work for the jury  
but it would be a more responsible   way to deal with it  
the thing that i i don't really like  
i i don't know if uh a lot of jury selection processes that i've seen have been a  
well you know they tell you that you get tried by a jury of your peers  
but you know it's pretty hard to try let's say the man down the street that's living on social security or somebody that's on a limited income to be tried by a jury of his peers if most of the people  
like the juries that i've served on are businessmen  
okay  
now they don't understand that you know maybe he needed fifty dollars  
so he held up the seven eleven  
okay  
they don't understand that because they have fifty dollars   all the time  
so you know i think that it a trial by your peers should be exactly that someone in your own age bracket  
someone that you know you can't really do it [ethnically] you know  
but you could do it   you could probably get it a little closer  
but then there's another thing that i disagree with in texas is sometimes you have a jury of six  
and sometimes you have a jury of twelve  
and i don't know why they do that  
do you have any reason  
do you know of any reason why they do that  
okay  
see  
okay  
i don't know much about the grand jury  
how do you feel about the  
in texas i noticed since i've been here in twelve years that they they break up the the trial and then the sentencing part of the trial  
well we know there's a few out there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's  
yeah  
would be pretty hard  
well i don't think you know i don't think that if i was the criminal that i would like the judge passing sentence on me  
if the jury found me guilty then they should be able to decide at the same time what my punishment should be  
and i think it's  
not only that it's a waste of our money  
we have to have a trial for this person  
then two weeks down the road we have to excuse me set a sentencing date   so now we're back in court again  
and that's more money spent  
no  
and it's not working either  
it seems that we have more and more repeat offenders  
i know  
i don't know how you all are there where you're at  
but where we're at now our jails are overcrowded  
we just built a brand new one two years ago  
and it's overcrowded  
so now they start turning them loose  
they turn them loose  
yeah  
well the way it seems the way it's been working here's  
go ahead  
it seems the way it's been working here is they let those out that have spent two or three years out of their five to twenty sentence   or five to life  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
and they   they keep  
yeah  
all right  
all right  
yeah  
it would allow   yeah  
instead of being completely [penned] up  
and that way it would give you know  
the probation department and parole department they've got to be overloaded with as many criminals as we have here in in lubbock  
and that would give you know  
at least they don't have to drive all over town trying to find one guy   or trying to see six or seven people  
sometimes it's pretty messed up  
isn't it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well see  
and there's another thing about the justice system that i don't like  
and there's a lot of people that tell me that that maybe my thoughts are wrong  
i came from california  
and when you're in jail they take you out just like they do in alabama or anywhere else what they call a chain gang  
and they clean the city parks  
and they clean the city streets  
but you know we have criminals in jail that do nothing but sit on their [duff] all day  
and here it costs us seventeen to eighteen thousand dollars a year to support a prisoner  
and i know  
yeah  
but i know families myself that have three and four children in lubbock that don't make that much  
and they're not you know they're not doing anything to support themselves   while they're there  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well   uh_huh  
see now  
yeah  
yeah  
but at least they would at least that way they would be helping pay for their own  
and something else that i would   and something else that i would like to see is is uh victim reimbursement you know because they you know like you say these guys are in jail  
and they're working  
they're getting paid  
but the guy that they messed over to get there or they stole something from or beat to death  
or  
has nothing you know  
our our victims are victimized period  
and the law has no no uh regulations to deal with that  
they they know how to deal with the penal system  
and they know how to deal with the criminal  
but they don't know how to deal with the victim because we as citizens i guess haven't laid anything up there for them to deal with on that aspect  
but it's  
but i sure don't  
i i strongly disagree with any judge passing sentence on a person himself  
there that  
yeah  
because well see the jury is dealing with the seriousness of the crime  
the jury gets to see the whole trial as does the judge  
but you know if if they figure there's maybe [litigating] circumstances or something like that whereas maybe the judge does just doesn't care you committed this crime  
so i'm just going to throw the book at you  
whereas the jury may have a little shall we say sympathy you know  
he did this  
but you know why did he do this  
is there is there a basis for it  
yeah  
in some cases where the judge says okay i'll give you you know two to three years  
and  
yeah  
well they have a stronger debate too because there's twelve people there  
they have to decide whether or not he's guilty  
and then they can sit in at the same time and decide what his punishment would be  
and you'd have more than one person's input on it  
and you know we're supposed to be and i quote in a democratic society  
so you know if you can find me guilty then you ought to be able to pass sentence  
and a lot of jurors  
not that i know of  
but you know a lot of jurors may just sit there and say yeah he's guilty  
but i don't have to deal with it from here you know  
so   the judge takes care of all of that  
yeah  
it would  
yeah  
serving on the jury would be definitely more you'd have to be a definitely more responsible person  
okay uh  
let's see  
i i believe in the trial by jury  
i think if it was up to the judge alone that there would be real possible for uh payoffs you know [briberies] uh [unfairness] one [sidedness] you know all those kinds of things  
and i also like the unanimous decision because you have to persuade everybody to be a hundred percent absolutely sure before you convict somebody  
i i really agree with the uh innocent until proven guilty theory  
i think that's that's a good way to do it  
that's about all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that's that's a good idea  
maybe this pre group of people could decide you know which kind of uh you know where they could go from there  
do they need a big [lengthy] twelve person jury  
or do they need a six person jury or you know those kinds of things  
and the degree of the of the you know the seriousness of it you know  
how  
is this open and shut you know like you were saying  
or do you need somebody to go off for three months and try to figure out what really happened you know a jury like that  
they could be a good idea to  
that could work  
yeah  
uh_huh  
good idea  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's  
right  
that's that's a good idea  
i  
in the bible it says uh if you have something against somebody to go to them first  
and if that doesn't work then to go get somebody you know a little bit more wiser and older and take them with you and go to them  
and if that doesn't work to take it to the whole church  
so that's right off that same kind of principle  
that's a that's a good idea  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true too  
but uh you know that whole biblical concept like that that's true in a lot of our  
um you know the the way the whole judicial system and the government is based on that  
it doesn't work on that  
but it's based out of that  
and uh so that you know that could work  
um what is that called  
the judeo christian ethic  
judeo christian ethic  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's that's  
really  
really  
really  
yeah  
mine too  
yeah  
mine too  
yeah  
same here  
what what part of the country are you from  
oh okay  
in in texas  
okay  
i was just being curious  
okay  
yeah  
well i'm from the dallas area  
oh okay  
well that's that's neat  
oh are you really  
wow  
okay  
well i'll let you go  
and it was nice talking to you  
you too  
bye  
well i think i think basically we're in a lot of agreement uh in that i certainly agree that for any case involving serious injury to another person then maybe that needs uh some kind of legal definition  
but for anything involving that trial by jury certainly should be mandatory  
but there should be with our overworked uh judicial system  
it seems to me like there ought to be a means of of um not having to take everything before a full court you know  
maybe there ought to be some kind of of uh  
isn't there a type of word called a jury duty now  
and maybe instead of of uh just kind of blowing it off just spend a day or a day and a half like most folks do maybe we should commit to spend a week  
and during that week you're kind of an ad [hoc] let's hear about it group of i don't know twenty five instead of twelve  
and each case is presented to that group of twenty five  
and those cases are uh lesser degrees of magnitude you know  
the guy was caught [burgling]  
and he had his pockets full of stuff you know when he was caught  
you know that kind of stuff you can just turn to the judge and say your pleasure your honor  
and there's not a lot of discussion about that kind of thing  
but the way our system our court system works that guy is going to have to hang around in jail or out on bail or something like that for an extreme period of time  
i just think our system is overworked  
and we're starting to stretch the true meaning of of right to a speedy trial  
you know we  
you know kind of off what we've been talking about here uh i believe that our we've become almost a litigious society where we everyone is very quick to sue or to threaten to sue and that kind of stuff  
and   although we supporting a whole segment of society called lawyers maybe we don't need to do that  
you know maybe instead of being so quick to sue you uh if you have a disagreement with someone instead of tying up court and time and that kind of stuff maybe you maybe you  
and if you want to your lawyer or your your opponent need to go face this group of twenty five or a judge like   they have on t v  
and let either he or that group decide whether or not you have a real case  
and let's you know let's get rid of some of this harassment suing  
you bet  
and if   if we could all deal with those kinds of beliefs we wouldn't have half the  
yes  
i'd forgotten what that's called  
there's a a real name for that like the [judean] law or something like that  
well that may be right  
it's in there some place  
i think we both know that we're talking about   the foundation of our legal society  
uh and too the  
that was sort of the beginning of [ye] shall be treated fairly  
uh i guess the lord started out with we'll treat you i'll treat you fairly there as long as you do what i say  
uh that's sort of the old testament version  
i know  
i did a sunday school lesson one time on the difference between the old testament and the new testament   where where there's a [vengeful] lord in the old testament and there's a loving lord in the new testament  
but that's a whole different subject  
okay  
well i i think we have exhausted my [pitifully] small knowledge   on on the legal system  
but it's been a pleasure talking with you  
i'm living here in texas  
well that's quite all right  
well so am i  
in fact i'm at work out at lewisville  
my pleasure  
have a good day  
bye bye  
okay  
have you ever served as a juror  
uh_huh  
i never have either  
well i think it's a good idea  
i think our justice system needs a major overhaul  
and i'm not sure what needs to be done to fix it  
but i think they've got a lot of problems  
true  
yeah  
i think that's true  
yeah  
do would you prefer all trials by a judge  
yeah  
i would agree with that  
i think you're  
i think they sometimes get carried away by the circumstances and make huge settlements thinking well it's only going to cost the insurance company  
and  
uh_huh  
if they give them all the information  
i don't know  
when it comes to sentencing phase i guess they tell them if a guy if the person has a previous record and stuff  
sometimes it seems like during the trial part the jury's not you know misses some of the best evidence because they make them leave  
and   the judge decides whether or not they should hear it  
right  
yeah  
do you think the verdict should be completely unanimous by the jury  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
some of them disagree  
i mean some of them said one way and some the other  
i think it does have to be unanimous  
i know they can poll a jury make sure everybody agrees with what they said the verdict was  
but i thought that they all had to agree  
or else they it was a hung jury  
and  
yeah  
i i don't know how i feel about that  
i think maybe uh majority might be sufficient  
it's hard to say though  
oh  
yeah  
i hadn't thought about international trials at all  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think maybe they'd need to be more knowledgeable though than just your average joe off the street   for something like that because of the cultural differences   things like that  
yeah  
what about uniform sentencing   right  
yeah  
like if you're convicted of a certain crime you automatically get so many years  
it's not a discretionary thing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i wish that when they sentence someone if they're going to sentence him to five years then make him serve five years  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
and sometimes those people are are young enough they can still get out and cause a lot of trouble  
yeah  
i don't believe that very often happens  
i don't think so either  
in fact i think they end up worse because the conditions are so bad  
yeah  
i think i think maybe they ought to just be punished with some some kind of real punishment like hard labor for a shorter length of time you know  
actually make them do something that's not pleasant and do it and get it over with and get back in the you know world and not spend so much time sitting around letting the bad influences of the other ones rub off on them  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
something besides license plates and [tiddlywinks]  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think that covers it  
nice talking to you  
bye  
you too  
bye  
never  
i've never been served on the jury never been called up in a jury although some of my friends have been jurors  
you haven't huh  
if you were uh what do you think about the whole concept of a trial by your peers  
i think the major thing they need to correct is how long it takes something to get to jury and to get to trial  
and i don't know if that's just a pure volumes number or or what  
but uh sometimes i think the jury is ignorant in the facts of law and how things should be determined  
and they're too easily swayed by their emotion  
[hence] is possible error as you can see in all the [ironsides]   t v shows  
no  
i think there are certain things that uh the jury can determine as far as uh guilty or not guilty  
but as far as the [affixing] of punishment and [fines] and things of that nature i don't know if that is best left up to the jury to to award you know  
two point two million dollar kind of settlement versus a judge knowing you know it's true that you know this may be sad and all that thing  
but uh the jury i think is best in most cases suited for determination of guilt and innocence but not the award of of penalties and [fines] and punishment  
uh_huh  
that's true  
but uh i do like the idea of the jury being the the people who decide in the matter of uh if it's a jail term versus life and death   you know the death penalty and such  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh it it it's kind of difficult  
and i guess the whole system is set up to rather let uh some guilty people go free than to put an innocent person in in jail   although you still hear about those occasionally  
um i don't know  
i you know i heard a very interesting  
and maybe it's just the t v show or movie i was watching  
they were going through a trial  
and i think it was like on one of the the documentary t v shows where they ask for the the verdict by the jury  
and they went by each one saying guilty or innocent guilty or innocent  
and they took it more as just like a majority  
so i i  
exactly  
but they took you know whatever the majority was  
so i didn't know if that was just something for drama or that's truly the way it is  
i always thought it had to be unanimous  
but uh rather interesting  
uh_huh  
i did i did also  
uh_huh  
what about in international trials  
do you think they should have a jury there  
i think that would be kind of interesting  
i guess the the problem with that is there's no true authority in any kind of international verdicts   like you know the old day with the rack  
we they're going to say okay you're guilty and you have to pay kuwait four million dollars  
well whose going to really make them  
nobody  
so but i think it would be kind of interesting to incorporate that concept of you know people from different countries uh in as international law also  
uh_huh  
right  
i don't know how what it would take to be come up with a true perfect system or if one exists  
but  
uh is that the crime  
and it's already some [chart] and determine the punishment  
or  
uh_huh  
i think there should be a core minimum that they get  
but uh i guess there should be some flexibility because every situation may be unique that the judge can either increase that or keep it just at its minimum things of that nature  
but  
yeah  
that serves a kind of if they're i guess uh  
if you sentence someone to life life is only forty nine years something like that  
and i guess you're eligible after twenty seven for parole even though you're in for life  
yeah  
although i guess it's you you want them to rehabilitate and become better rather than sitting in there and being a drain all the time  
no  
because uh inside the jail there i don't think there's no real rehabilitation  
yeah  
it's another war zone  
but who knows  
i agree  
get them out there  
sure  
they should have them go out and doing stuff   cleaning up or picking up dirt or weeds or who knows what something for the for the state  
since the state is paying for them they should get some kind of kind of work out of them  
exactly  
trading their lives for cigarettes   those kinds of things  
well good  
i think so  
nice talking to you also  
have a wonderful easter  
bye  
do you  
uh_huh  
sure  
well i do think that the cases like the uh-oh say something like texaco versus [pennzoil]  
or or the texaco [pennzoil] problem   uh is ridiculous for people just taken off the street to understand and   really should have some better way where people who understand both the circumstances and the complex issues involved should handle cases like that  
oh is that right  
yeah  
okay  
boy  
or uh or there should be some way where it could be opted for them not to have a jury  
uh i was only on one jury ever   so far in my life  
and uh it really was a pretty trivial case  
and it seemed to me all the time i was thinking of all these people in the courtroom over the case that involved oh a couple thousand dollars i think   it was it was really just uh uh terrific waste of everybody's time and money  
and it finally ended up that uh even though we had reached a verdict before we were allowed to give it they settled the case  
they they had settled while we were deliberating  
now the one thing i did approve of there was that we didn't have to be unanimous because it was a civil case  
and uh we were split uh ten to two  
so it was uh a good thing that it wasn't a total waste of time to have a hung jury on a case that trivial  
well i think that the trial in a sense is kind of a threat to hold over people to try to get them to reach an agreement out of court   because it does cost so much money  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
i was a witness in a case in a criminal case  
and it was absolutely [horrifying] to me how that operated because so much evidence was excluded  
and that the jury was never allowed to hear  
and they convicted the defendant i on as far as i could tell very [flimsy] evidence and two [perjured] [testimonies]  
and i knew the people involved both the people who d and the people who uh were [defendants]  
and  
yeah  
i think that was just a a horrible [miscarriage] of justice because of the uh you know staying by the absolute strict rules and not allowing things to be presented to the jury that uh were highly irrelevant to the case and could i thought have established the defendant's innocence  
so uh i do  
although i'm a lawyer's daughter and i have lawyer's   and judges on both sides of the family and uncles and cousins and things like that i really think that we have gotten into much too [legalistic] of society and that we we spend far too much on the fine points of the law and far too little on [achieving] justice  
uh_huh  
well and then in a lot of  
yeah  
in criminal cases uh for instance you can't bring up prior convictions unless they are somehow directly related to the case  
and it seems to me that a jury can make a much more rational decision if they know somebody had fifteen convictions for a similar crime  
now it's possible that he didn't commit the  
but the likelihood certainly [tilts] it  
with a record like that  
and   that was one of the things that we're not allowed to was not allowed in the uh trial i went to  
though uh one of the two people who gave the [perjured] testimony had a long criminal record and had been you know a real [sleaze] bag  
and he came in and was presented to the court as a standing young man who had uh been in [seminary] to become a priest  
and   you would have thought the guy was just pure as the driven snow  
but i happen to know his background  
and i know that he would have sold out his mother for uh uh shorter sentence  
and you know it's it's really annoying when the  
i asked the defense attorney later why he didn't bring up all this other trouble the guy had been in  
he said that that was barred uh by the court  
so we do have some problems  
and it seems to me that uh maybe it's time to just scrap all the case law and go back to general principles   and start over and then make a legal system that carefully protects people  
but uh where you  
yeah  
yeah  
that would be [wrongful]  
sure would  
um  
um  
and you think that would be relevant  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
i think so  
and i  
yeah  
that's something i thought would be a very good idea of when juries come in they are told just to shut up and listen  
and it seems to me that you'd get a lot more uh information if your questions were heard   if you were allowed to ask the witnesses things or if or the lawyers things or even the judge  
but particularly the witnesses  
or if they would allow them to uh give broader answers they  
it's really kind of uh [choreographed]  
it's like a script has been written when people testify  
they aren't [testifying] really in their own words  
yeah  
i can remember uh friends of daddy  
well this is kind of ironic because i work in t i legal department  
and although we don't have any criminal actions here we do have other um lawsuits that do go to trial from time to time  
and uh when was it  
a couple weeks ago i was asked to go to uh jury duty  
i i wasn't selected  
but um for some of our cases in particular we have um very technical cases from time to time because of like our [patents] and such  
and it's very difficult for lay people for somebody who might just you know happen to be selected in our jury to understand what we're talking about  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
you know some i don't  
you always have the option  
now in criminal i guess you always have a jury  
but in civil cases you have the option of whether you want a jury or not  
yeah  
and in some incidences i think they ought to ought not to have a jury  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well um i've never fully served  
i mean i've been asked twice to go down  
but i didn't get elected on the panel  
but i know that um for a lot of the civil cases it's rare  
i mean if your a lawyer um there you could be a lawyer who never actually gets into the courtroom  
there's a lot of attorneys like that that never get to the courtroom  
some their kind of law doesn't get them to the courtroom  
but even in um litigation which is doing lawsuits is a lot of times that you never get to the courtroom itself  
and   yeah  
but it's a shame that oh  
it's not so bad for the court system because the money there isn't being spent  
but there's awful lot of money in time and effort spent in preparing for trial only to then finally get scared enough by going to the court  
and usually it's the scare kind of of the jury because you really don't know one way or the other how that jury is going to feel  
you could feel that you really have a very strong case and that you're very much right  
but the jury may or may not see it that way  
so you get a little you know anxious there and go well you know   i don't feel that sure  
and who knows what the jury will say because sometimes you know the juries come down with a result and you go gee  
uh_huh  
um   oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh really   yeah  
and it seems a lot of times that uh especially in criminals that their rights are so protected  
but what about the rights of you know the rest of society  
i mean we're protecting this person's rights who has broken the law   um  
and we protect him so much  
but what about the rest of the society  
you know what are we doing for them  
we're kind of you know forgetting about them  
and i think sometimes that a criminal should kind of  
if he breaks law especially it he's a [repeater] the law shouldn't just always cover for him   that some of his rights as should be taken  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
um     jeez  
um  
yeah  
i'd even go for for trying to get some truth out of the witness stand if they come up with some pretty reliable uh um lie detector tests that we can see right then and there whether they're lying or telling the truth  
yeah you know  
yeah  
i witnessed one trial many years ago when i was first um studying to be a paralegal  
and uh uh they barred [priors] on this uh person  
and they never then told us i guess because [priors] had a reason as to why these two people were very much in hatred of each other  
and they never told us why these two people had such a [vendetta] against each other  
and the crime was uh uh attempt to commit murder you know  
but they never told us why these people were mad at each other  
and gee you know  
that's  
yeah  
you know because they they told us in school that you know crime has to be an intent you know has to be not just the act but you have to intend to do it  
because there could be accidental kind of things you know  
but they never told us why these two people hated themselves or if one had done something to you know really aggravate the other  
there was never any motive   given  
and and i had a tough time with that  
and and being a person who saw what the jury didn't plus what the jury did because we were just [observing] you know there in the courtroom   at the end of it all i still didn't know  
i still have a lot of reasonable doubts  
and i've seen everything presented  
and you know they just haven't done a real complete case here to my thinking  
i don't know that i want to   sit on a jury like that  
and you'd still you know  
i want ask some questions here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
allow them to uh go back and and deliberate and uh you know after each days [proceedings] come out with some questions that they want answered like the next day bring those people back  
right  
well i don't i mean i don't know what you think about the subject  
i'd the i had never really thought of what they said before about allowing the the sentencing to uh to go to the judge instead of the jury and allowing him to do that  
i've been kind of sitting here thinking about that a little bit while i was waiting for them to phone somebody  
and i don't know that that's not a good idea  
i agree  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
i don't like that  
no  
i don't like that at all  
i know my husband served on a on a jury a few months ago up here in denton  
but uh it was a guy it was it was a drug conviction  
and i don't remember  
he had some cocaine and it was accused of selling it  
and i don't remember exactly how much he had  
but uh actually not selling it  
there's a difference  
[couriering] it is what  
is supposedly a difference from selling then being a courier  
and   he was a courier  
and uh they he's he sat on that jury  
and they found him guilty  
and they went through the sentencing phase and everything  
and uh you know they were told that you know during the trial that this is this guy's first offense  
and he's got this clean record  
and and they ended up  
the jury you know decided hey it's time to [crackdown] here you know  
and it was time to do this drug thing  
and let's [crackdown]  
and let's really  
and they sentenced him to fifteen years   you know which they thought first offense okay this is they thought that that was that was a good thing  
and they sentencing him to fifteen years  
and um after it was all over uh the they sit down with the judge and with the other two lawyers let me come over in just a second okay and sit down with the judge and with the other two lawyers  
and they were told that uh he would probably serve three   of the fifteen   and that he had three previous convictions  
however they could not tell the the jury that during the trial because all three of them were in appeal  
so the jury didn't know about it  
so here they based their sentencing thinking that this was this guy's first offense  
and so you know we'll give him fifteen which will teach him a lesson  
but it's not just you know horrible   since it was first offense  
and he'd been convicted three times before you know  
and and the jury was very upset  
and my husband came home a home very upset  
i mean he felt like that that they had been [tricked] you know  
and so something  
i wonder if a judge didn't have control of that if some of that would change you know  
that's true  
that's very true  
yeah  
yeah  
obviously what we are doing is not working you know  
no  
yeah  
and there's you know there's people in our prisons that are not being rehabilitated in any way shape or form  
and either they're in there   forever or when they get out they're you know it's a matter of a few months  
and they're going to be right back for the same thing  
so the system  
that's very true  
yeah  
i was talking to a friend of mine about this the other day  
and i said you know i understand that there are a lot of countries that rely on the united states to  
and   and the and the people in those countries rely on our money to survive  
but i really believe that we need to take care of ourselves  
i mean we  
and and  
i know people say oh it would be cruel to you know pull our aid from these other countries  
and and maybe so  
so tell them you've got five years   to work out a plan to make it on your own  
and we will continue funding you for the next two years  
after two years we'll cut it down seven to seventy you know seventy five percent  
and after another year we'll cut it fifty percent  
and in five years it  
by then you should all should have a plan worked where you can make it on your own without our help  
and then we'll have all we'll have we will have the money if we would do that to   to work on your own system because we've got some serious problems here  
and we're trying to   heal the world you know  
it's just not   it's just not working  
i look at the i look at what you know what the aid presented to the kurds  
and i i feel sorry for them  
and i know they're suffering  
and i know they're dying everyday  
but we've got you know kids here in the united states that are dying everyday too   you know and being   abused and neglected  
and you know i don't know  
i just have this problem with   uh trying to heal the world when you're so sick yourself you know  
so  
yep  
i think we should try it like you say  
if it doesn't work we can always come back  
but i think it would be a good idea to try it  
so anyway well we all agree  
you too bye bye  
that's not a bad idea  
i  
um uh that you know  
they probably need to change it somehow uh  
the whole system needs changing  
we've just got too many people in there   and uh are putting too many uh people in jail that probably don't need to be there  
and it's another form of sentencing  
but on that one thing i i still think it should be a unanimous decision  
uh i think we're getting to the point now where they're going to eventually let it be um majority vote  
and that's not going to be good  
no  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
yeah  
oh  
right  
yeah  
the judge might know  
or at least it it wouldn't hurt to switch over there and see if it worked any better  
if it didn't we can come back for something else  
or  
or or what we've got  
so  
well we definitely need a change in the system  
and uh  
it's not working too  
it's just piling up on us  
right  
right  
we're just not willing to set a society not willing to spend the time or the money to do what it takes  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
very serious yeah  
oh yeah  
your right  
sure  
oh  
you bet  
right  
well we seem to agree on the jury thing  
and uh but uh we'll need an unanimous verdict  
and   maybe let the judge have a opportunity to make a decision  
yeah  
i do too  
well good  
good to hear from you  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think i agree with that very much  
i  
do you  
do you think a lot of people when they are listening to a trial put themselves in a position like that and say i would never do something like that  
and it's for them to believe that somebody else could do the things that have been done  
uh_huh  
i never have either  
is there a reason why you have never   uh_huh  
my husband works as a police man  
so i always assumed that that was why i was never called  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh do they have such a thing now as a six man jury  
somebody told me the other day that there is what they call a six man jury  
and i had never heard of such thing  
and i wondered if it was true  
i never had either  
but i just wondered uh  
another question was should a criminal case should the jury be unanimous on their decision  
and that i wasn't sure on either whether it should be unanimous or not  
that would mean they all would have to decide   one way or the other  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
bring some of these things out  
uh_huh  
un apparently there are  
i i i  
since my husband worked as a policeman i can't believe there are very many people that come to trial that have are not guilty of something   some part of whatever they're accused of  
i have i still have a little bit of a problem with that  
uh but i would suppose there are circumstances you're in the wrong place at the right time or know the wrong person at the right time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they still found him guilty  
when people said he was at work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh for heaven's sake  
so there's nine years of that man's life gone  
uh_huh  
no  
huh_uh  
yeah  
i guess that's where a lot of the problem lies  
we're we bend over backwards protecting the guilty people the one's that are on trial  
and   and we often forget about the one the injustice has been done to because i bet they still say our system is the best in the world  
yeah  
it's the best one that exists i guess  
oh i think a lot of people are  
i think they've lost sight of some things that are very important to our country  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that bad huh  
i wouldn't like it  
but i don't know if i'd go that far  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think pride in our country and our flag is so important  
it's important in so many [facets] of our lives  
and uh i i feel like if they don't people don't like what our flag stands for they're welcome to go some place else  
there's nobody holding them here  
right  
they'd soon be back  
i'm sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know about the judge making the decision if that's  
do you think that's good   you know like if a jury  
uh_huh  
make a recommendation  
do they sometimes make a recommendation  
that's what i was thinking they they sometimes do  
and they recommend  
yeah  
and then the judge has the final decision   on what does really happen yeah  
uh_huh  
well i think that's where a lot of people think boy they're getting put away for a long time  
but actually their chance course when  
a lot of times when they come up for parole they're denied  
it depends on   you know what they're what they'd been guilty of and a lot of different things i guess  
uh_huh  
a lot slip through the protective whatever they have to do  
and there are bad ones that do slip back out and end up hurting somebody again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i always thought there was there was wrong  
it seems sometimes that like somebody who is stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family got more jail sentence than somebody maybe that killed somebody  
it seemed like there sometimes there's not a good  
the balance isn't right  
it doesn't make sense  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
so let's put up with it i guess  
improve it if we can if we ever get a chance  
so  
well it's been nice talking to you jack  
and i hope you have a real good day and week  
i hope not  
you too  
bye bye  
there you go  
well jean the subject is jury trials  
and should the jury recommend uh sentencing  
now my personal opinion  
i don't know  
uh uh here lately it seems  
well up until a few years ago i guess there just too many liberals about and permitting too many oh  
they just broaden the human rights to to cover just about everybody and i don't think those guilty of committing capital crimes should be permitted to go spend a few years in jail and be turned lose on parole  
it's just not right  
and therefore   i think juries should be able to recommend sentencing  
yes  
very possibly  
so many of us have led sheltered lives   that uh when we go into a sit in on a jury  
i've never done it myself   unfortunately  
i wish i could have  
i've just never been called up  
well now that's possible  
but uh i was called up as an alternate once  
but i   never made it to the jury  
not that i know of  
uh_huh  
uh i've never heard of it  
uh well there again uh i suppose it should be  
exactly  
is it guilt or innocence  
but then again so many times you get one or two [holdouts]  
and and   it permits the criminal to get a retrial  
and there  
that's not too bad in this sense because you might get someone in their that's a victim of circumstances  
i mean that's happened   and giving them another trial might give them additional time to uh prove their innocence  
yes  
we can't [overlook] the fact that there are innocent people that do get involved in jury trials  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's it  
and you just might resemble somebody  
uh out here in texas we had a a a great [miscarriage] of justice  
it was finally after nine years it was finally uh taken care of  
we had  
a black man was accused simply because he resembled   uh someone who who held up a seven eleven i think it was  
and even though he had witnesses that said that uh he was at work  
and he had all sorts of character witnesses and what not  
they found him guilty  
well they said it this this happened during lunch time  
and he could have gotten away at lunch time   and committed the robbery  
but after nine years  
well as a matter of fact they made a t v show about it after nine years they finally came up with evidence and proved to prove that he was innocent  
exactly  
now that just was not fair  
so  
yes  
unfortunately that's what happens  
well it's not the uh uh it's not the best system  
but it's the best one in the world  
uh_huh  
and unfortunately we just have to put up with a lot of things  
and they try to solve them and everything  
but uh i don't know  
the supreme court  
well i'm i'm i'm still [rancled] about their decision to permit burning of the flag  
well it  
the the the first amendment definitely says freedom of speech   not freedom of action  
and uh uh well that just [rancles] me  
no  
i swear if i ever saw somebody to uh burning a flag i'd i'd try to kill them i would  
well i happen to be a flag freak  
i served i was in the service  
i was in korea  
and uh well i saw what the red in the flag represents  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see what they  
see how they'd like it under another flag  
uh_huh  
well jean we seem to be of the same opinions here  
i hope they get something out of this  
oh   passing sentence   well uh uh yes  
but i think the jury should be able to recommend  
yes  
oh yes  
yes  
i don't know if that's a regular procedure or what  
but i know i'm always hearing that uh  
well the jury came in with a guilty verdict  
and they recommended   twenty years or something  
yes  
of course now the jury may not be completely aware of all the ramifications of a sentence  
they may not know that if you give him twenty years he can get out in five  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but too many times they they are permitted to go out on parole  
and  
yes  
they just go out and repeat their crimes  
well there  
well they say after three offenses its automatically life in prison  
but i think they ought to make it two offenses  
uh_huh  
yeah  
very true  
well here again now there is where race seems to rear its ugly head so frequently  
race or [nationality] even  
but uh like you said it's it's not the best system  
but it's the best one we've got  
uh_huh  
sure enough  
jean it's been awful nice talking to you  
well let's hope neither one of us ever has to run into this subject we were discussing  
take care now  
bye  
well uh i don't have strong feelings about changes to be made in the uh jury system do you  
uh well then you must know a lot more about this than i do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what about the idea that one is only guilty uh when proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt  
i thought that was the point of uh a unanimous jury was the idea that if everyone agrees   then there shouldn't be any reasonable doubt  
but if there are some people who don't agree   uh then there must be it seems to be there must be at least a reasonable doubt for some people  
really  
have you served on a jury  
i never have either  
but my friends my few friends who have uh say just the opposite  
they say they're uh remarkably [incompetent] and uh don't know what they're doing and say one thing in the courtroom and then as soon as they get in the back room they just start letting all their prejudices hang out and to to air and all that  
right  
they don't want anyone with   anyone with particular experience or knowledge of the legal system  
and they tend  
and since anyone can get out of it who basically says they don't want to do it  
i mean you know it's it's anyone can get out of jury just about  
and uh so it it's uh it's not really my peers that  
if i were let's say i were arrested falsely or not   and put up for a jury i wouldn't feel that uh i would be being tried by a jury of my peers  
i'd be i mean i'd be tried by a jury of you know people who had nothing else to do and weren't very knowledgeable about certain sorts of things  
and uh   i don't know  
i i get a little bit nervous about it  
and uh  
yeah  
i i was called once  
but i was out of the country  
and apparently i apparently they thought i served  
so i didn't i didn't make any noise about it  
i came back  
and they said the record showed i served  
but i was out of the country at the time  
so i'm pretty sure i didn't  
uh  
yeah  
well i i i don't know  
i definitely feel like we need to keep it at least unanimous  
because uh you know there's the classic sort of to kill a mockingbird kind of story where you get you know   jury which can have all kinds of prejudices and things that a judge at least officially isn't supposed to have though of course they can too  
and uh it seems to me that if you could just have a simple majority or something you could pretty much you know [browbeat] the jury   a majority in the of the a majority of the jury  
that's hard to say  
uh so it's it's uh you know saying well look we don't like the way he looks  
and let's uh let's throw the rascal in jail and stuff  
and you also get a lot of uh juries are extremely uh  
and from what i hear  
i i have i have some friends who do expert witness testimony  
and they say that uh juries are extremely vulnerable to uh sort of emotional pitches you know  
the prosecutor will want to oh i don't know show the show the [mugging] victim you know show what the nice person he was and what a family life and basically get the jury to be very sympathetic with the victim  
and uh or or uh if it's a corporation that was uh you know harming some individual or something like that they get very much well you know  
it's just a big [faceless] corporation  
let's let's make them pay as much as possible   things like that  
so not  
i i mean i'm  
the problem is i can't guarantee that a judge would be necessarily be much better than a jury  
but i'd be real nervous having a jury not at least fully agree on what the settlements would be   things like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well how about having a jury and a judge work together on it somehow  
i wonder if that's possible  
i guess the [judge's] time is worth too much though  
they pay that judge they pay those jury members very little money compared to that judge  
he makes more money in an hour than all twelve of them put together  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh of course  
it's it's political [maneuvering]  
the the one side is looking for someone whose face they think will you know want to hang everyone  
and the other one is going to look for someone very sympathetic  
they're not looking for someone whose going to be the most [reasoned] or sensible or rational juror  
neither side wants that  
they want to find a juror that's going to uh be most [persuadable] by their arguments you know  
uh i wish it were a little bit harder to not serve on juries actually  
i mean i know it it it's tricky  
because i know you know an awful lot of intelligent people who just well  
i'm too busy to serve on a jury  
so i'll tell them that  
and they won't or just you know just answer one of the questions the wrong way because you can do that you know  
they just say do you believe in such and such  
uh  
right  
course they'd be they would be barred  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it sounds like we both need to get out there and serve on a jury  
i hope we're called up before too long  
they will they will eventually  
okay  
well it was nice talking with you  
bye bye  
uh not at all  
in fact i'm graduating from college in about a week  
and this past semester i've taken two criminal justice classes and have discussed a lot on trials  
uh i think i think uh the system right now you know should you know is fine  
i think it should be by a jury  
i don't think the judge should have i mean  
he's just there kind of like the [referee]  
uh i don't i don't even think that it should be unanimous either uh  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh i don't know  
i uh  
you you rarely hear you hear of course there's cases where someone has been put in in in uh prison uh falsely accused  
but uh more than likely the people that are on the the jury know what they're doing  
uh i mean you  
never  
huh well you would think that they would get that in the uh  
when the prosecution and defense are choosing the jury you would think that those would come out  
and i i know they automatically  
when you go through uh when you're chosen is you're automatically like a a a professor in criminal justice or something like that  
that you're automatically  
no  
they don't want you on the jury  
exactly  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've i've never i've never even been called to jury duty  
yeah  
i uh i don't know  
i think the i guess there's a lot of problems with the legal system  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  

i uh i i i don't think the judge should just make the decision alone  
least with the jury you have twelve people you know   that are going to decide you know  
you're the the person's fate  

judge  
right  
exactly  
probably  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh no  
it's it's sad though that uh that the people though that  
you you somebody's life is in twelve people's hands  
and sometimes those twelve people could care less  
and uh or they fool the the defense in thinking that they're you know  
because when they go through those processes they kind of pick out who they want  
exactly  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well  
i guess it's just that maybe people are you know upset at court you know  
if it was if it was a a family member of theirs though that was innocent  
and then they'd want to be on that jury  
but uh if everyone would take it i think if everyone took it seriously  
and uh i mean something you have to do  
yeah  
i would love to be called  
i'm ready to go  
they just haven't called me up yet  
it was nice talking to you  
bye bye  
so what do you think of our trial system  
yeah  
yeah  
i have noticed that that that kind of stuff does seem to happen quite a bit um  
yeah  
i don't i don't i don't even know what to do about that sort of thing  
yeah  
i think trial by jury is very good  
i actually  
they said i think the tape said something about changing uh changing it such that the  
or leaving sentencing up to the judge only  
i think that's actually good idea  
just just sentencing not the trial itself  
um because i think that that that judges are probably more informed as to what is   how serious the nature of the crime is   and stuff like that  
an  
right  
right  
so he'll be able to give them the maximum sentence in some cases there  
oh yeah  
the the  
they give that as as an example of something that   that might happen  
oh yes  
right  
or just you know  
there are two people who say well he just looks guilty um  
that's actually that's a wonderful way to get off jury duty you know  
someone says to you you know  
when they ask you if you uh if you want to be on you know  
when you're called for duty say oh yeah i want to be on jury duty because i can spot a guilty person a mile a way  
they quickly let you off jury duty i hear um  
oh yeah  
that that that that that's that's the way it works there um  
anyway i think that probably for for having it  
what about you know about being unanimous  
i mean that's sort of a strange case because i wonder what happens when eleven people thinks someone's guilty and one person doesn't  
one person thinks that that they're not guilty  
and they can't decide for hours unless they convince that one person you know  
i believe it does have to be unanimous actually  
yeah  
i think they either have a retrial eventually or or they call it a mistrial or something  
i haven't been to law school  
so i don't know much about that  
i just know that um  
i wonder  
because sometimes i think about it actually  
i think well what if i were that one person and i was completely convinced that that that that this person wasn't guilty you know  
right uh  
but i mean what if eleven other people are saying one thing you know and you're   you're the one person saying the other thing  
you know would you give in  
yeah  
saying  
yeah  
yeah  
i wonder about those things you know or even if it's you know  
i i guess if they were to say well it doesn't have to be unanimous  
what's the cut off number seven five you know six six  
you know how do you decide  
is it you know  
how do you decide what number of people have to say that  
yeah  
yeah  
i've never quite understood that um  
okay  
right  
and they can't do anything about it  
yeah  
i often wonder about that  
i wonder if if maybe you know  
i i i don't i don't i don't know the law on that  
but if they have new evidence can they can they [retry]  
or can they you know bring you back  
oh actually that's true  
i've seen the same thing on l a law as well  
yeah  

so i and then i wonder why that you know  
there there must be some sort of deep [seeded] reason for that  
you know something like something like well you can't be tried for the same trial because that would bias the the the the jury or something  
or you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
in in of the defense  
yeah  
well well there's also the issue of for instance you can't um you can't very often you can't um  
when someone is is on trial for something you can't bring up prior convictions  
which  
right  
that's completely beyond me  
i mean that's  
i wonder  
yeah  
i mean if this man is is accused of [raping] someone then i think that something like sex you know   the fact that he sexually assaulted someone is a [crucial] bit of evidence   that adds to the fact  
and i i i   i i often  
i never understand you know  
again having  
i'm sure there are some deep seated reasons you know to  
i mean often times i wonder about rules like this  
and i'm sure that that that there are some reasons for good  
right  
then right  
then then  
then they should be  
yeah  
i mean that's what i think  
but i don't um but i don't quite understand  
do i vote  
oh yeah  
i vote  
yes  
yeah  
oh yeah  
well that's that's that that's very true  
but then again often times they don't as well  
often times they don't uh  
they just go you know  
they're  
you've got people like who are who are you know lame lame ducks  
and they sort of don't care about anything and just want to go ahead an  
that's true  
that's true  
i often  
i mean that that  
like you say that's another discussion  
but i have had that discussion before as well  
where you weren't  
i i wonder about the politics of it all  
so  
yeah  
well even in the courts well well they're all appointed  
i mean   that's even another issue you know  
should should should judges be appointed you know  
and or or um often times i look at friends  
we had uh a serial killer around here who killed eleven women  
oh and and [choking] them  
yeah  
uh his name is [arthur]  
i'm not sure if they had one yet  
but i'm sure they will  
um because he was he was on some sort of news special though  
he was he was uh he killed  
because he was just on trial like maybe a year ago  
um he was [strangling] some of them  
oh no  
usually they were [prostitutes] actually  
because he was he was  
actually this is a very sad case  
the man was let out  
he was in prison for um sexually [assaulting] two children  
right  
he he  
they let him out  
and then and then he he wasn't allowed back in the town where he had done this  
so he came to our he came to rochester instead  
and they they they realized later he he had killed about between eleven and twelve women at least  
and  
oh really  
way up north here huh  
oh okay  
still way up north sort of um  
yeah  
won't get out exactly  
yeah  
this this this man was sentenced to i think like three life times  
but he was you know it was just horrible  
because um his his his trial was you know was it it was televised and this and that  
and what they were pleading was um they were pleading insanity  
i mean it's clear to me the man is insane  
and and he should be just locked up for life  
right  
i mean i don't know what you do with them at that point if you're that crazy  
but what what struck me is you know they had a psychiatrist [testifying] for hours and hours  
and by the end i realized that maybe it would have been better if they had it wouldn't have been a jury of his peers but if they had a jury of [psychiatrists] instead to sort look at it you know  
i mean i don't think it's feasible  
but it would be an interesting thought if you're  
no  
or right  
right  
exactly  
but give them a bunch of [psychotics] but at least have a have a have a bunch of [psychiatrists]   you know just to look at him and decide from then  
i mean they would  
what's  
yeah  
they did  
they had a regular trial by jury for him  
and and  
huh i don't really know what to think about it  
but i do know that they're not you know  
they'll give somebody twenty five years and they'll serve what eight months  
have you noticed that  
uh_huh  
and uh  
but i think trial by jury is it's a lot better than leaving it up to one person  
leaving it up to the judge  
oh okay  
yeah  
well right  
because   the general public doesn't know that if if they're sentenced to life that they won't serve life  
course the judge will know when he'll be up for parole and all that  
so yeah  
okay  
i must not have understood the whole thing  
because i didn't hear them say that  
but yeah  
uh_huh  
but i think if the entire trial was left to one person  
i've got a four year old  
you can hear  
but uh i don't know  
you  
too many people can take [vendettas] out on people   and everything  
right  
but that's true  
yeah  
right  
because they they know that you're biased  
does it have to be unanimous  
well then they consider it a hung jury i i think  
and then they uh have a retrial  
or do they  
uh_huh  
no  
me neither  
well you don't have to be really convinced that he's guilty  
it's just if they can't prove he's guilty  
because  
yeah  
i would hate to be that person because you would be uh you know bombarded by all the other eleven jurors   to you know just say he's guilty so we can get out of here and go  
home   yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know  
it's too bad one of us don't have some knowledge on this  
huh   but but um i don't know  
i just hope if i ever go to court that they all unanimous on not guilty  
well you've seen like these t v movies  
kyle i'm talking  
hush  
but uh well how they'll you know  
the  
through the whole movie you think this person's  
i don't know  
but one thing that i thought was pretty weird is how somebody can't be [trialed] tried uh excuse me twice for the same crime  
well i just think it's it's weird because i've saw well of course soap operas  
i'm an soap opera fanatic  
this one guy had uh framed himself to make it  

which  
he really did kill the person  
but then he set it up where it looked like somebody was trying to frame him  
and he was on trial for it  
and then you know it came out that he was being framed  
so then he was found not guilty  
and then  
directly after the trial they found out he really was guilty  
and he couldn't be tried again  
yeah  

no  
i don't think they can  
you know i saw it on l a law too   yeah  
about that woman  
right  
and i'm sure that you know it's the lawyers   uh after the uh defendant defending oh the defendant's lawyer and the prosecuting attorney  
i'm sure the prosecuting attorney could make a real good case if he you know knew all the details of the defendant's you know case  
right  
right  
like if they're on uh trial for rape you can't have any you can't bring up the sexual assaults and stuff or whatever  
yeah  
i know if it's related  
if it's related to the crime they should be able to  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
but they're not allowed to do that  
well that one does seem that one does seem out of it though because it's it you're allowed to show their character  
do you know what i mean  
and if it shows that their [character's] you know capable of lesser thoughts like that and stuff  
right  
that led to that  
tell you what we need to do is go into law and then we'll be able to  
or vote  
do you vote  
yeah  
do you vote  
okay  
you'll help out a little bit  
putting the right people in the office that's a lot to do with it too  
a lot uh a lot of the politics will pass laws and stuff that the um general public wants  
so they'll be [revoted] and all that  
right  
right  
right  
they sit on the fence  
so well oh i talked about this the other day  
they won't say yes and they won't say no to just certain issues just because they don't know what the public wants or the public's split on it  
yeah  
right  
because most of it is politics   even in the courts  
right  
uh_huh  
now was that the um uh green oh i don't know some guy that was attacking women jogging  
no  
well did they have a t v movie about him  
well well how was he killing the women  
were they jogging on a  
oh okay  
oh  
see that's what i mean  
then they let them out  
and then they're able to do it again  
i think my sister is married to a guy from rochester  
yeah  
yeah  
way up  
well uh i'm originally from kentucky  
yeah  
i i'm i was up north too  
but uh that's one of the reasons i think judges should be the ones to sentence people  
because they do know you know   if you sentence them to three life times then they probably won't get out on parole  
uh_huh  
well of course  
but they just need to do something with him  
he needs to be [annihilated]  
yeah  
well it's supposed to be a jury of your peers  
they couldn't have a a bunch of [psychotics] up there  
uh_huh  
did they have a trial by jury for him  
huh well  
well uh it seems to me that uh that  
i do not know whether the jury system uh  
i i should not say i do not know  
i do not feel very uh stronger that the jury system should be changed  
it seems to have worked uh time [immemorial]  
and when uh difficult decisions uh are made uh uh uh they generally prove out to be right by things that occur later on  
uh i know in some cases now in some states depending on the criminal code uh a unanimous verdict is not required  
and indeed some juries are no longer twelve people  
they are down to as little as small as six people in i think in petty in in uh in uh in minor felonies and uh and misdemeanor trials  
uh i think that the judges should be left to do most of the sentencing simply because uh there is always uh there is   there is always a jury that might be swayed uh by the moment uh to either to be too lenient or too [vengeful] i guess  
yeah  
but i mean is not that   uh is that a reflection then of what is really happening in the real world  
if if if they keep giving everybody hundred year sentences and the people in various states it does not seem that people want to be taxed to build more prisons or even in for that matter uh repair the uh the lack of judges and and and other uh  
yeah  
yeah  
you know that might be it  
i mean they   they certainly  
i do not   i don't know how   it is in virginia  
but in florida now uh uh uh at eighteen years someone was just sentenced to eighteen years i heard it on today uh without any specific recommendation for uh uh uh uh uh uh waving the normal uh procedures  
and the eighteen years will uh translate into something like uh four point seven if every if the if the prisoner is a model prisoner  
and indeed the present overcrowding conditions uh [prevail]  
plus i guess there was some credit for time this guy had already spent in jail waiting for trial  
so uh yeah  
you might be right about that  
i i i do not know  
it just seems to me that only about uh from what i read only about ninety percent of the only about ten percent of the cases come for trial anyway  
and uh only about uh four or five percent of uh  
in the in the very end  
or less than less than half the trials that go to uh less than half the cases that go to trial uh end up with   uh with the jury actually making the verdict  
that most of it is plea bargained uh half way through  
or or most of the cases are plea bargained anyway  
but uh uh how do you feel about the uh about the jury system itself  
do you do you think that should be changed  
or do you do you know in virginia whether it is if they have smaller juries  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
well i guess we  
yeah  
i guess we always focus on criminal trials with with the jury  
but i know you have a right to ask for a jury in   in any sort of a case that even where damages are are are uh are the result of some sort of a uh an action that you are bringing against someone else you can ask   for that to be heard before a jury  
takes a heck of a long time i guess to get there   in some states  
i i i do not know uh  
i should imagine virginia from what i read uh uh is like every other state  
it it is faced with uh uh enormous costs to maintain the jury system and the prison system and the entire trial system  
because i guess   everywhere i read that there is a shortage of judges  
not that they won't [appoint] them  
but there is no budget for them i guess  
or   and the [courthouse] that goes with them and the [bailiffs] and the clerk uh   court [clerks]  
so it seems uh  
no  
i i i do not think i would change it  
the more i [verbalize] it i i do not think i would want to change the system  
i do not   know what we would replace it with  
yes  
uh and yet   there are there are so many there are so many people in prison  
i mean the prison population uh as far as i i uh you know  
my impression of it is that it has that it has doubled in the last ten years and [tripled] in the last twenty  
i mean it  
so has our i guess our population has grown some too  
but there there definitely is uh uh you know to me the one of the worst things that could ever happen uh from what i read and see and understand  
i mean i do no think i could handle prison  
i mean it would be   very difficult  
well there must be a   a a a very great degree of that  
but but there again i i do not know if the the jury system itself uh comes in to play there  
i would think that  
one of the things that sort of bothers me is the ability  
of course it is a constitutional right that the press must have here is the interviewing of jurors after the trial  
i mean that it seems to me that that that when a jury makes a decision they should not be asked uh before television [cameras] and newspaper reporters how they reached that decision  
i mean i do not  
i imagine there is a certain certain right of the press to have the ability to ask that  
but i i would think i if i did anything i would protect the juror from from any sort of an [inquisition] after  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
well   i do a lot of business up in washington  
i was there during the during the trial actually  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i felt that way  
i felt   i felt  
no  
but  
yeah  
i always balanced in the in the situation  
i remember the jurors uh  
i thought to myself how did how did  
they only i think they only uh found him   guilty on one count which was uh not even which was a class something felony which was not even punishable   uh uh to the degree that they thought it  
but i do not know  
maybe when you are there in the in the courtroom yourself and you are sitting there and you have got to make a judgment on somebody  
and the [prosecutors] do a lousy job  
or maybe the evidence was not as sensational as the media presented it  
i mean i   i am not making excuses for  
that might be it  
i think i am getting a call coming in  
all right nice   talking with you  
thank you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
on the other hand uh attorney uh uh [justices] are more apt to uh understand you know the the prison crowding problems and things like that   and have that sway their decisions one way or the other   you know  
yeah  
i think that is what is happening  
i think uh the judges are trying to save the people from having to   the cost of new prisons  
they  
they are saying   oh well you know   the the people cannot   afford it  
yeah  
right  
right  
with a conviction  
oh okay  
right  
uh i do not know exactly what the size of the juries  
i know one of my friends was uh uh brought up for jury duty  
for  
and he only heard very you know piddly type cases  
most of it was uh robberies or things like that you know  
it was not any serious crimes  
so apparently even for the [smallest] crimes they give the person the you know any felony anyways  
they give the person the option for a jury  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
huh  
yeah  
whatever  
right  
uh i do not think i would either  
yeah  
i know  
it uh does seem like the the the the purpose of getting people in jail so that you know the the  
i cannot think of the word i am looking for  
anyway the deterrent   for people to to commit the uh to not to commit the crime is sort of gone away  
people have  
i do not know  
they just do not care any more  
the benefit i guess of crime [outweighs] what the deterrent is  
you know people that  
um  
yeah  
well i would be interested in   finding out what the uh percentage of drug related type things are  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i know uh  
on the other hand though when after the barry trial   up here you know the big local   trial   as well as national  
yeah  
and the opposite was true of me  
uh after the case was over i was like somebody get ahold of these people and find out why in the world did they vote the way they did   you know  
it was like well a picture is not good enough  
we want to see  
i do not know what they wanted honestly  
did they want the guy to i do not know  
i mean just because you feel like he was being kicked on which he certainly was you know  
i think i  
no doubt in my mind the federal government picked him out and selected him to be   [prosecuted]  
but   it does not matter  
the guy was obviously   guilty  
one one count  
yeah  
yeah  
well yeah  
i think we are getting  
oh okay  
well it has been nice   talking   to you  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
i guess we are just to discuss trials and and punishment if it's to be given by the judge or not  
did you did you catch your explanation of that  
okay  
you mean the crimes or the punishment should fit the crime  
okay  
yes  
i did also  
right  
could you hang on one minute jim  
thank you  
i am so sorry to keep you on hold  
are you at work  
okay  
i am too um  
oh it's insane  
it's insane  
yes  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
yes  
it seems like  
that's correct  
and there's too much leniency  
there's too much uh um [underhanded] uh things going on that the public are not aware of  
and it seems as though we are uh giving the criminal the benefit more than the victim  
the victim has been victimized twice not only by the [perpetrator] of the crime but also   the courts that try to do the justice  
i do not have any i don't have an ounce in my body of credibility toward the the judicial system in   the united states  
isn't that terrible  
well to punish him for the crime but also to try and [reeducate] the man's thinking  
to get him out of that uh uh criminal mind that he has and to direct   him into a more productive life  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
how sad  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
well if  
yes  
if enough of the public   [responded] to uh the the uh parties that are involved and if enough  
they will listen to the voice of the people  
i have found that out that if enough people respond and rise up against the [injustices] being done something is going to change  
people have to be involved  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
you were  
yes  
uh but and i'm not making an excuse  
but we our priorities are a bit backward  
that's correct  
yeah  
yeah  
well i am too  
i mean i i just can't  
i you know i served on a jury for a lady that was having a mental problem  
and we found her not guilty because the lady obviously was not in their right mind  
so if the person is not in the right mind i mean they had to uh put her away  
but for her own safety and for because she didn't know what she was doing  
and we couldn't we just dismissed the case   you know  
and and she was uh taken care of by the proper facility  
yes  
that's true  
yes  
i did  
it's it's uh  
the uh  
maybe i'm a hard [liner]  
but i think that there should be some [preset] penalties in criminal cases rather than uh degrees of sentencing  
right  
right  
uh again having participated in jury duty myself i know   i know how such a diverse group of people get together the different backgrounds different ideas that   sometimes you can have one person or two   that can hold up what i consider the proper sentencing   of the person  
yes ma'am  
no problem  
yes  
yeah  
um i think what you have is the way the the justice system works is they bend over backwards trying to protect the guilty  
so many things in their back  
pardon  
yes  
i know  
my wife participated in a jury trial several years back   [wherein] the individual after it was over and they   had came up with the maximum sentence   in the jury form they found out that uh the gentleman involved had a long history of the same type offense   which was theft of   uh property  
and yet the the attorney   for the prosecution could not enter these uh the good man's background into it  
it was like   this was a first time offender  
whereas uh   i think that's  
those that should be in jail should be in jail  
yeah  
well i think this is one of the reasons that also that attorneys have such a a [unsavory] reputation  
shall we say  
yeah  
well what you got is the situation [wherein] uh if you ever get in trouble you want to hire the [smartest] [crookedest] lawyer you can find  
and uh that's not the idea  
it's the idea is not to get the guy off of the crime   that he committed but to punish him for the crime he committed   yeah  
yeah  

well we have uh a situation again that i am familiar with where uh the son of an [acquaintance] of mine   was killed   while trying to stop a robbery  
and the person that killed him was a young woman who had left the house with full intent to commit crimes carrying a gun in her purse  
and anyway it'd get to the  
she was sentenced to jail  
but then due to technicalities she was going to be out of jail within eighteen months after she was sentenced  
of course it took eighteen months for the thing the trial to happen  
so then uh   there was a letter writing campaign that went in  
and the parole board received approximately a thousand letters protesting putting this person back on the street within eighteen months after killing someone  
and uh fortunately it worked  
they uh they corrected the technicality  
and the person now will have to serve three to four years of the seven or eight they were sentenced to  
right  
this is it  
and most people don't take the time  
again the only reason i took the time is because i was personally acquainted   with these people  
i'm just   as guilty as the rest in that respect  
oh yes  
well they again the  
and i'm not knocking the civil rights program or anything like that  
but we've gone   overboard to uh protect persons from being having their civil rights   violated to the point where the person that is damaged   is not protected  
it's again the victim gets worse punishment then the person   that commits the crimes  
yeah  
okay  
i think we're both in agreement on this subject  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well another side of the coin that with our justice system there are a lot of frivolous cases that go to court  
there are a lot of things that could be settled out of court   which uh or should never have gone to court  
and then the amazing thing of course is how uh some cases can come to trial in thirty days  
and others it takes eighteen months  
okay  
well i uh i guess because i work quite a bit with lawyers i'm not a lawyer uh that i find a lot of things are so specialized that i'm not sure  
and i i look at it more from the civil side of things that juries have any sense of of the value of and worth so that they have real problems when it comes to uh uh  
they can find guilt or innocence  
uh but then when you [quantify] things and that might also hold criminal trials for how many years is appropriate uh that they might leave it to somebody else who uh has expertise in that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because i find that uh  
i've been on a few juries  
and uh as a say i i tend to be around uh civil cases because i've been an expert witness some  
and uh many matters are so complicated that it's so hard to uh come up with the fair value uh or the fair sentence  
and one thing that you get if you have some expertise is uh you know the range of of possible values or terms or you know how heinous was the crime  
uh that uh  
when i only do something one two or three times i'm hardly an expert on it  
and most juries over a period of five or ten years you might sit on three  
and so how do you relate as to whether this particular armed robbery was a you know worth five years or twenty five  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well one of the others things that gets me on on the juries is that often in the newspaper i i tend to hear two things that well that go on  
one is you often see in the headlines the big numbers  
uh and many of those get overturned or get reduced in terms of sentences or get changed   by a judge or an appeals court  
and that never makes the the press  
and so when uh you or i as an individual gets on a jury we tend to have certain mental [images] of what's what because we see the headlines uh  
and we don't have again a lot of knowledge  
so we don't know what is really going on what is uh really the range of sentences or awards that are uh are actually uh in the end   applied  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's where uh the role of juries is is restricted  
and i'm not sure i'd want to change that aspect of it  
one is it's restricted in the sense that juries only decide the charges that are actually uh brought you know  
if it's first degree rape second degree rape or whatever they only get to decide on that  
well okay this person has been charged with first degree rape uh  
and you can decide guilt or innocence on that  
uh such like maybe in murder they get to choose whether it's uh premeditated or one or two of the lesser degrees  
the other thing that juries are restricted on and and at least to me this has been one of the frustrating things in my even in my own experiences that you usually don't get to hear all the information  
it's what information is presented  
and uh i don't know that juries have a right to know more because in a sense we call those [safeguards]  
but often juries hear only a fraction of the of the story when they have to decide guilt or innocence  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and   the truth that's brought out is uh as i say when i've heard about you know  
the [oath] is to tell the truth  
the whole truth and nothing but the truth is that they want uh  
they don't want uh the whole truth  
i mean   you can say  
yeah  
the  
because stories look very different when you hear different parts of the of the truth  
okay  
right  
right  
i agree too  
i don't think the jury should be the ones that that put the [sentencings] down  
i think the judges should  
or even a panel of of lawyers if if it got to that point might be better at than just regular civil people   not knowing you know exactly what things are from from murder on up to like tax stuff you know  
right  
yeah  
and  
right  
that's  
yeah  
and and most people that do sit on juries  
some people just sit on them once in their lifetime you know if they're that lucky sometimes   or you know what whatever the case may be and and may not have any idea of what what the standard punishment would be for it  
and it they may have some different idea  
i mean it might be more important for them to put a sentencing down that was uh longer you know that didn't fit the punishment didn't fit the crime   or not long enough or you know whatever the case may be  
i i think the judges do have that that better knowledge of it  
the only thing i worry about sometimes is if if you get somebody in there that that has a name that is the defendant and you know sometimes might have more pull which that does happen  
i mean we can't say it doesn't because it does happen  
i mean not everybody is you know has has the right morals sometimes  
people can be paid off or politically   or whatever the case may be  
and sometimes that's not real fair either though  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
well well also what i don't think is fair either is when you have like a say a rapist come in  
and and his attorney gets his sentences sentencing reduced because he's gone to a lesser charge like i don't know what assault or something or  
but which that doesn't make any sense to me either  
i know it's hard to prove rape and whatnot  
and and and the person that was raped or whatever doesn't  
i mean it's embarrassing   and all this other stuff  
and they they're put on like they were the ones that caused it or whatever  
but to me when you do the crime then you should pay for whatever you did  
and and you shouldn't be able to go on the lesser charge  
i don't i don't think that's right because all's that's going to do is say oh well you know that was a breeze  
i can go out and do it again and you know   have the same thing happen  
that's that's not right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and to me how can you how can you make a decision if you don't have all of the evidence in front of whether it be whether it [pertains] to the case or not  
somebody thinks it it had because they've got it there  
so the lawyers the two lawyers are the ones that have all the information  
don't they  
they only put part of it  
yeah  
right  
well that's just like that old witness game  
well it's a game kids play too  
but uh somebody did it just for your train of thought where they they showed something  
and they asked  
they there were uh like four people  
okay  
do you want to start  
uh_huh  
now that do you do you agree that they should all be unanimous  
or even even in uh like they said you know lesser you know trials you know lesser convictions do you think that they should be all unanimous still  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well the thing is they stay until they all are unanimous  
i mean if one is determined that it's you know that he feels that he's you know going against the other eleven they all stay until everyone agrees  
so i don't know if it would leave anyone getting off more unless someone just gets tired of fighting you know just gives in  
and they have to stay in until they all agree  
yeah  
i don't know  
i'm not sure if they go i mean to twelve new people or what they do exactly  
but i do know for sure that all twelve have to agree before he can either you know either he or she can either go free or to jail either one  
uh_huh  
that's that's just it  
i don't understand  
you're supposed to you know go in if you have you know like if you've never heard of the people before or anything  
but i don't understand with [racialism] and the way religion is and everything else how you can get people that are total totally impartial to it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree  
i don't think it should be left up to the judge alone  
not only you know that they have to stay in there  
but hey  
how many times have you heard of judges being bought over  
you know so it it's i i think i think in in the end the judge has the [presiding] you know uh vote  
i think he can be you know i i don't know if it's the way it is in real life  
but i've seen it on t v where the juries go one way  
and the judge totally finds it obnoxious  
and he completely you know goes the other way  
now i'm not sure if the judge is allowed to do that in everyday life or what  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh oh my god  
if there were more than twelve can you imagine how long they'd be sitting  
i i think it's just i don't i mean i think it's as fair as it can possibly get  
but i just think it's really you know  
i mean some cases go on for years you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i don't know how it could be more fair  
course i don't know  
maybe   maybe they should be asking someone that's been on on trial before  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know  
i don't know that much about it either  
i just i don't know  
i i guess maybe if they'd go and they'd ask someone in jail you know how they can make it more fair for them or not  
but then again maybe they should be there  
so that is fair  
i don't i i don't think anyone's going to come up with a better way  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i think we can hang up anytime  
no  
i don't  
what else to say  
so  
it was nice talking to you too  
bye  
okay  
uh i haven't i don't know that much about the what the possible choices could be about [reorganizing] the trial by jury  
but uh i think it works better than many other systems like having a judge decide  
i can't think of many alternatives that could be more fair than having twelve people decide although it's difficult because they all have to be unanimous  
i don't  
i don't know  
i don't know if i feel i don't feel real strongly about that  
if the uh  
the thing is though i i didn't think even if it was a lower conviction i didn't think that you could uh i didn't think that you really had to have a a jury  
unless i guess if you request one you can  
but i think  
yeah  
making it unanimous sometimes might uh let the only thing it might let more people get off  
i don't think it would convict any more people  
and we have so many people already you know  
the jails are already overloaded  
yeah  
well if it's  
no  
but they they what if they never agree  
doesn't it just uh do they have to go back and do a whole new trial  
or  
agree  
yeah  
and that maybe on the lesser crimes that aren't too severe that's a little stringent  
especially because there's twelve  
the thing about it is i think jury selection too  
a lot of times uh the lawyers are able to pick and choose who they want on the jury  
and they can sway them that way too  
i know  
i don't think well i guess you really can't  
but the other thing is when they have the sensational trials how they get people who aren't swayed by the news either  
so uh but then again you know they the one of the questions they asked is should it just be decided by a judge  
and that's kind of tricky too because a lot of positions the judges are in they they can't be fired you know  
they have to they stay till they retire  
and sometimes they're pretty partial in their [judgements] too  
i know  
yeah  
i think in some cases they are  
but they know they get to decide how severe the sentence is   if it's you know  
so that's another thing where they have the power  
but maybe juries could be less than twelve people  
or would that be more fair or less fair  
maybe there should be more than twelve people  
i don't  
i know  
i don't know  
that's true  
and i've never been on jury duty  
but they have to keep going and going and going   and lose their not lose their jobs but not go to work  
it could be  
really  
i've never seen one in real life either  
so i don't have you know i don't know that much about it  
but i think it seems that we have a a pretty fair system compared to other countries  
i don't know how we could make it more fair  
i really don't  
the unanimous vote is questionable though  
and and how how many cases get juries might   want to be reviewed too  
because uh i don't know if you should really have a jury for a small [infraction]  
but i'm not sure who gets them  
i don't know anything  
right  
no  
whoever came up with this was pretty smart because it was pretty uh unique   i think when they started it  
so how long do we need to talk  
do you know  
okay  
uh in uh  
what do i do now  
do you know  
anything  
or just   wait for someone else  
okay  
well it was nice talking with you  
thanks  
bye bye  
okay  
uh it's not such a bad idea to think about judges uh you know taking the idea of uh uh sentencing into their hands versus you know the jury especially if it's a highly publicized case such as uh you've got cases right now that are going on that everybody's very well informed of or have read uh certain uh things in regards to cases like the dahlmer case in milwaukee and stuff  
so it's it may be an idea to think about you know cost  
trying to find a jury   so you can get a jury as far as uh they may say they're not biased  
but deep down they are against this person or whatever  
so uh i don't think it's such a bad idea to think about  
so  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
catches you off guard doesn't it  
uh_huh  
i didn't think they   were either  
i thought the sentencing was done by the judge  
i mean it's either guilty or not guilty  
changes  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's kind of how i you know  
in certain cases i can see them going uh uh just basically with a judge guilty or not guilty   verdict   uh simply from a judge in highly publicized cases versus the small uh maybe you did a crime that was uh burglary or whatever  
and it goes into the court case or whatever  
and it's not highly publicized  
but when you get into these highly publicized cases where everybody knows details whether it's through the national [enquirer]   or whatever  
uh it's the idea that person might initially have this thought well jeez this person's guilty no matter what  
i'm not going to listen to the facts or   and and con their way into uh getting past the lawyers and getting through that  
but uh also there's aspect of cost  
and i i'm not quite sure how much cost it does take for uh the judicial system to try and call a jury whether it's very costly or if it's something that's not costly or what  
you know being that i'm not in the that area i really don't know  
but i wonder   if there is some big expense in trying to call a jury to trial and then having to pay whatever they have to pay if there's something that they have to pay  
i know companies have to pay for these people to be off from work or   at least give them the time off from work  
uh whether it's  
i think it's with pay  
if i remember jury duty is with pay  
and it's not   uh_huh  
paid right  
uh_huh  
some that may decide not to  
yeah  
right  
that it that it  
i  
a judge would be more consistent from one case to the next and not   not and and uh not depend so much on the on the emotions of a particular case but be able to put it in overall perspective  
well   i i certainly haven't thought much about this  
but  
yes  
yes  
some of them some of them do  
and some of them don't  
but uh this one uh  
i was trying to remember back  
it seems to me that that you know when i studied civics in   school or stuff that this the juries being involved in the sentencing wasn't wasn't so much  
and i'm i'm trying to figure out whether that's i'm remembering wrong or whether that's a   by state  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh i i guess  
and i don't know whether it's by state or whether there's been some   supreme supreme court decision perhaps that said that uh that uh as part of the trial by the peers that had to include the sentencing or   too or whatever  
i  
yeah  
but i yeah i certainly wouldn't be uh uh worried about that  
i guess in terms of the uh you know having a judge do it would seem to me to be more more fair and   and uh   unbiased  
uh in terms of doing away with the with the unanimous jury i guess i guess i uh would be a little more leery of that kind of a change in in the trial system  
that that's just a such a tradition that it's a that it's got to be a unanimous   jury   that uh i don't know where you'd where you'd draw the line anywhere else uh you know uh   two thirds or three fourths or whatever  
but uh and and i i i certainly wouldn't feel comfortable with just a just a bare majority  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
whatever  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
and and i'm  
i  
i'd  
i know it is i know it is where i where i work  
but i'm not sure that that's that that's necessarily required uh you know by law that it has to be   paid  
uh i suspect that's a that's a benefit of a bigger company  
but but there are   certainly some   some that some that wouldn't uh  
yeah  
that's it  
what do you think are possible changes in the uh way trials are [conducted] these days  
do you like the way some people in there for instance really take over and uh we have no way uh of knowing whether they are [legitimately] right or wrong and so forth  
what do you think about these things  
so you're saying you think the judge should actually have the final say  
huh  
yes  
i know what you mean  
well   i hadn't uh thought of it from that point of view before  
i have been in a fairly important trial  
and uh what bothers me is i was concerned of the ability of some of the people in the jury to adequately understand   what was being presented so that they themselves could make a proper and uh accurate decision  
that's the part that bothered me about it  
um i really think that the the the jury ought to have more say so in the selection or in the determination of whether they are guilty or not  
but i also think that the jury should be uh very very uh carefully more carefully selected to make sure that they are entirely intelligent people and that they understand some of the details that are involved so that they can make accurate decisions  
i hate to see people brought in who basically have lived out in the country and don't know much about any of this stuff  
and and they just make a decision based on whether they like the dress she wore that day or whether that guy [smiled] or [growled] all the time  
that's no way to make a decision on some terrible problem  
that would be certainly nice  
let's say  
we we would have fifty percent of them law students   anyway   yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's a very neat idea  
and they would learn a lot about being lawyers later in life   when they see what it is like to be in the jury side of a trial  
that would be a a really good thing to do  
so it's  
huh  
huh  
for goodness sakes  
uh_huh  
oh they saw the husband   get  
yeah  
uh_huh  
they would find something wrong with it  
did they really  
uh_huh  
that is a shame  
you'd think there would be enough uh people who saw the accident other than his wife   to to also uh make statements  
and they have nothing to gain one way or the other  
so if they say a certain way then why not believe them  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
well as i look at our trial systems  
i think they've gotten to be quite a joke the way the people can appeal and file for [mistrials]  
and they've taken a lot of the things that were set up to make it be a fair system and used it to their advantage  
i think that a jury should listen to the courts uh to to the hearings and to everything  
but i think they should only weigh fifty percent of the decision  
i think the judge should hold the or maybe even forty nine  
and the judge should be able to rule one way or the other  
i think he should  
and i think that there should be more than one judge  
there should be maybe two at least   that sit in and listen so that there's no way that you could have like a crooked judge  
do you know what i mean  
um and i think that there it's important to have a jury but i think the way that they go through so much time to get it a fair one  
that's okay too  
as long as it's not used to delay the trial so much  
they need to have a fair jury  
but they only you know would cover forty nine percent of the decision or fifty percent  
and then the two judges would go ahead and make the final decision  
how do you feel about that  
right  
right  
right  
right  
well what if they used you know  
i just had a thought come as you were talking  
what if they used law students and had that be credit hours to sit in trials  
yeah  
at least  
at least   on the jury  
and that would give them   experience in the courtroom  
and it could count as some aspect or hours going into their major  
right  
that's right  
that would be a really good thing to do  
i have a girlfriend that just went through a three year trial  
and what happened was her husband was uh involved in a motorcycle accident where a drunk driver ran the [stoplight]  
and he ran into the motorcycle  
but the reason the actual reason that the motorcycle person her husband was killed was because his brakes went out on his motorcycle  
he was just taking it home from the place  
it was brand new  
and his brakes did not work  
and this expensive big company that owned these motorcycles um railroaded this into three years worth of trials for this lady  
and she had a son that was just only two years old when it happened  
and they were following him home in the car saw the whole thing happen  
that's right  
they were following him home from the motorcycle shop  
and they railroaded this whole trial into [mistrials] um this and that and the other  
every time she'd get a verdict that would be in her favor of her   of a settlement  
until finally they won and   said that it was the drunk driver's fault  
and she would have to sue him   which i would think it would be some his fault  
but i just felt like justice wasn't served because they had the money the big lawyers and she didn't  
right  
right  
and i don't know all the details on that  
but i certainly think that we've come up with a good idea with the the the students coming into the jury  
and i don't think that it would be such a bad idea even if the judge didn't have the final say  
i think that uh one uh advantage of having uh the unanimous verdict is that in a criminal case you want to make sure that you don't uh convict someone who uh really shouldn't be convicted  
um and i think that you know a unanimous verdict uh helps to ensure that  
i guess maybe one drawback of it is that if you have one juror who is very unreasonable in some way that uh you uh would have a problem uh you know that you wouldn't convict someone who maybe should be convicted  
have you ever served on a jury before  
oh okay  
uh what sorts of cases were they  
so were they criminal or civil  
oh okay  
what uh what was the verdict  
did the did the jury have trouble reaching a decision  
yeah  
so did it become  
yeah  
uh  
uh but since it was a civil case it really didn't matter right  
you just needed a majority  
what was what was the other case  
that was also civil  
yeah  
oh didn't really even count  
yeah  
i'm i'm a college student  
so i haven't been you know a jury eligible age for very long  
um and uh i did get one summons actually at one point  
but i [declined] it which i'm able to do because i'm a student because it was uh a very bad time  
yeah i mean i i really i would like to uh to do at some point um  
but i i haven't  
uh one one thing that i i think is um you know maybe is a problem is uh i i think that the criminal jury system works pretty well now  
but i wonder if maybe in some civil cases it doesn't work as well  
especially sort of  
how  
uh you thought it turned out pretty well  
yeah  
oh so it was just kind of a zoo  
and the jurors just sort of  
someone had to figure out what was going on  
um that's interesting  
did it did it work out pretty well in the end  
i mean did a couple of people sort of gradually sort of assume uh sort of a [moderator] role in the trial  
or  
so it it did end up working out pretty well  
the one thing i sometimes wonder about um in civil cases is uh whether especially sort of in uh maybe like product liability or medical malpractice where there's um sort of a very technical decision to be made sometimes  
you know it's not just a matter of um of you know did this guy rip off this guy  
and it's just a matter of interpreting a contract  
it's sort of a matter of um you know sometimes getting into very technical issues  
and i wonder if uh if there's really um if the system works adequately in in educating the jurors about uh whatever um you know issue is under discussion  
in in the case you were involved in you said it was just sort of a bank matter of some kind  
so  
yeah  
uh  
oh so the deal was that he had uh borrowed money from the bank to buy it  
and   he hadn't made the payments  
yeah  
uh so they were suing to get it back  
uh  
yeah  
uh  
definitely  
uh_huh  
uh i have twice  
it was a pretty wild experience  
they were just you know small time cases where uh trailers and banks were involved you know  
they were civil  
they weren't   they weren't any criminal  
uh the jury it was uh let me see i think it was ten to one on the jury because they only had to have eleven people  
so it was  
they  
and uh the one changed his vote at the end  
so it became unanimous you know after they turned it in  
and then he changed his mind after they turned it in  
but it then became unanimous  
right  
the the other case was just traffic  
the  
and you know it was seat belt law  
and it it didn't even hardly   go through  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
well you learn a lot going to the juries like that though  
i wouldn't think that it does   i mean from from my from what i experienced in them  
it didn't you know it didn't turn out the way i planned it i mean the way that i would think that it would go  
yeah  
but it was you know it was  
jury was [unorganized]  
and it was it was just wasn't organized enough for me  
i'm not used to it not being organized  
and i just assumed that it would have been  
that's about what it was  
yeah  
they well they picked one person  
and then he finally you know [moderated] everything and made it turn out the way it should have  
yeah  
it ended up working all right  
yes  
i i don't think that they they they educate them enough to to really know what's going on  
yeah  
the the bank was suing them for uh because they went to get the the trailer   that which was uh seemingly their property  
it was on his property  
right  
so they came to get it  
and then when they came to get it well it was on the [landlord's] property  
and he wouldn't let them take it off  
so and they are it was a double wide  
so they'd already taken it apart  
so they left it there  
and then when they came back to get it a couple of days later it had rained and got all in it  
so they were suing him for the money  
and you know there's no way they could because it it was the moving company  
okay  
i guess it took  
so i guess the recording has started now  
uh  
i served  
i was in the air force and served on a court martial uh board a couple of times which is very similar to a jury  
a lot of the same rules apply  
have you ever served on one  
uh_huh  
was it civil or criminal  
a grand jury or  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh did did the judge uh hand down sentences  
or did you folks do that  
uh_huh  
um  
no  
that   that's a science in itself  
uh_huh  
i see  
because you'd probably be uh too [puritanical]  
and  
uh_huh  
so uh were were the uh sentences that the judge handed out what you thought to be fair  
or would  
if you were deciding do you think that they would have been different  
huh  
um  
wow  
i bet that made him happy  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh how many members were on the jury  
was it a six or twelve member jury  
uh_huh  
that's kind of curious to me  
i didn't realize until the uh wayne kennedy smith trial uh a few months ago that they had six member juries  
i thought that they you know it was always twelve twelve men tried and true so to speak  
but uh apparently for some some crimes it's [permissible] to have six people sit in judgment  
i know on a  
getting to this unanimous thing whether you know a jury should be unanimous or not or not in a court martial case it doesn't require the jury to be unanimous  
it's a simple majority you know rules  
probably on capital  
i don't know  
we weren't we we  
the two that i were on had to do with drugs  
and uh we were uh unanimous is [acquitting] the person even though we in our in our uh gut felt that the individuals were both guilty just because of the friends because of various things  
the government really failed to prove its case  
and you know being fair to the person if the government doesn't prove its case no matter how you feel you have to go by what's offered as proof  
and we had to [acquit] him in both cases  
uh yeah  
it was yeah in some of the critical things like the special [investigations] at one time in one of the cases had videotaped this person  
but something happened to the camera and the tape and  
all they could do was testify  
yeah  
so have you ever served on a jury  
yeah  
i finally served on one last year  
i've um been voting for years  
and i couldn't figure out why i hadn't been called yet  
and i finally was  
so it was an interesting experience  
i was kind of boring  
uh it was uh   uh it was uh well let's see it was municipal court  
so it was a combination of uh  
and i was in the pool for a couple of weeks  
so it was a combination of criminal and civil  
and they had uh  
well most of the time we we spent sitting around in the jury room and getting to know the other potential jurors  
and then it was always exciting when we got called to to to go because then we thought we might be able to do something else besides uh just sit in the jury room  
uh yeah  
the judge did  
uh i uh i had a hard time getting seated on a jury  
i kept getting uh  
i'd be questioned uh for [empaneling] the jury  
and   they kept uh [dismissing] me  
course they don't have to give a reason  
but it's just   whether the prosecutor or the defense attorney feels like you know  
they want to get the best uh mix for their case  
so   they ask all kinds of wild questions  
yeah  
well i kept getting called up for drunk driving questions  
and i think part of it was they didn't uh they didn't like the fact that i don't drink any more  
so  
yeah  
that was   probably it  
although in my case i might have been more uh sympathetic with the person who got caught  
i don't know  
well i was never there never there for any sentencing  
uh i finally got [empaneled] on one case uh on my next to the last day  
and uh we got into the uh jury room to uh decide the case  
and there was one guy on the jury who announced to everybody that he didn't need to deliberate because he'd already decided that the guy was uh not guilty  
and he would never vote for guilty  
so uh they appointed me jury jury [foreman]  
and i uh didn't think that uh going in without deliberating allowed us to reach a verdict  
so i told the judge that we weren't were unable to reach a verdict because we couldn't get one member of the jury to deliberate  
so the whole thing had to be tried over again  
yeah  
yeah  
it was uh it was funny  
the uh  
i i i don't know  
i uh i didn't uh uh i didn't like not being able to deliberate  
i uh i i wanted to vote guilty for the guy  
and the other people were kind of mixed  
so uh the guy had to go through the whole thing all over again  
cost him a lot of money  
i'm sure  
uh it must have been six  
yeah  
um  
um  
yeah  
well let's   see  
is it on uh capital crimes that they have to be unanimous  
and  
uh_huh  
uh it was too circumstantial  
um  
well how do you feel about trial by jury  
in what way  
oh do do you feel they are swayed more toward are you talking about with criminal or civil suits  
so do you think that i mean the the stereotypical bleeding heart juries   where they feel sorry  
uh_huh  
the other thing the only thing that really bothers me about that is i think you know that a judge can be  
i i like the idea of juries of your peers   uh in that you you you get more personally more than one person making the making a decision  
and second of all you get a wide variety of background  
so that  
uh_huh  
i'd   agree with that  
that's definitely a problem  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess i i definitely agree with you  
but the  
well what i don't like about uh sentence the jury doing the sentencing   in that i think it becomes a lot less  
the the same crime gets [unequal] sentences  
i uh i think there is more of an ability of you know you know for selecting a jury two different juries that would most of the time come up with the same idea uh the same idea versus you know whether he is guilty   or innocent  
but i think i think there would be a large variation in in trying to [gage] the the [severity] of the crime and an appropriate punishment and have that that measure stick across the board  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
of course a lot of that's also the ability of of the defendant to uh get a good lawyer  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i i agree with it  
yeah  
they will admit to you that they don't have the benefit of being able to you know of of letting allowing themselves to believe their clients that are guilty  
it's more of the game plan of how do they convince the judge or jury through argument  
that the  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh this is a little bit of the subject  
but one one thing that i really dislike uh also that's that's new is the uh is that i have heard that there are federal sentences  
i feel very uncomfortable with trials by juries recently uh  
in that it seems to me that they are swayed more by emotion than uh by evidence that's presented  
i have uh very little regard for the law   presently practiced  
i was thinking primarily criminal cases  
yes  
uh_huh  
that's a concern of mine  
uh i would feel more comfortable in many cases i think with judges uh you know doing the sentencing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my question i guess are they really your peers  
uh   uh too often i think they are not  
and uh when you when you are selecting a jury and you are doing it partially if if not entirely on the basis of which color representation you have   you know that is a matter of concern to me too  
uh i think that uh in such cases uh they are not really looking for unbiased people but rather for biased  
uh now i happen to know several judges  
and there is one that i would feel uncomfortable but has doing sentencing without the jury   i would feel a little bit uneasy about  
but the other two i feel uh would give either you know the [plaintiff] or for the defendant the the full benefit of the law  
and i guess that's what i am concerned with  
uh_huh  
this is very true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and you do see such uneven sentencing   you know evidence of it in the newspapers and such i mean   where uh it would appear the crimes were very similar  
but one individual got twenty five years  
and the other one was sentenced to life  
so  
uh  
isn't that the truth  
there are times when is it uh  
oh goodness my mind has gone blank it's uh [othello]  
you know where he says kill all the lawyers  
every now and then one is tempted to see what what  
but i it's taken me a long time to understand that uh lawyers are concerned with the law and not with justice   as we think of you know as as   [novices] tend to think that uh attorneys care about justice  
uh_huh  
and   they are very effective too  
uh even  
i have been involved uh just slightly in a case where i know the person is guilty  
but uh his attorneys gotten him off  
uh the city has dropped their charges against him because their the attorney has presented enough evidence of doubt to convince the judge  
so i don't know  
okay  
so uh with the issue of trial by jury uh i actually found the whole question about whether you need a a a unanimous verdict in a criminal case to be somewhat interesting  
i don't know if it's even true that it's always unanimous because i thought there were cases where uh i don't know if it's the difference between felonies and misdemeanors but where it was okay for a state to have it like eleven out of twelve  
yeah  
well i'd be curious as to what the uh requirement for a an [acquittal] is  
and i i don't think it would be wrong to say that eleven out of twelve can convict if there were something [corresponding] saying that if you know six or seven voted not guilty then instead of it being a hung jury that was an [acquittal]  
but i don't know whether you need an a unanimous uh vote of not guilty to [acquit]  
yeah  
i'd agree with that  
but i've never had the the opportunity to serve on a jury although i've been out here and registered for i guess about five years  
but  
oh  
well the people i know who have served have said that usually what ends up happening is that you know after initially finding out where people stand that the whole [deliberation] usually results if there is a you know something like a nine three or or more severe and and the people in the majority trying to convince the minority that they're right  
and in fact i'm not sure that that's any more uh liable to get rid of the reasonable doubt than than anything else  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'd   read one book i think it was calls trial by jury of all things that uh   went through and interviewed a bunch of jurors in some of the big cases and in many cases looking at what had at the evidence afterwards as to whether the decision was right went back to the jurors uh based on the deliberations  
some of them did say that you know when they were the only one left [opposing] the verdict uh you know everyone was getting on them so so heavily that eventually they just gave in knowing that nothing they could do could stop it from either being the verdict everyone else was trying for or a hung jury because the one vote doesn't mean anything except the ability to not have a verdict  
uh_huh  
yeah  
once  
hi  
yeah  
actually i i agree that that's an interesting thing  
i i believe that's a for for civil suits it's not unanimous right  
but for for criminal suits it's unanimous by federal law  
yeah  
i actually thought i'd read that too  
and that's why i [phrased] it that way  
i wonder  
the difference yeah the difference could be that for uh state if there is such a thing state felonies versus federal felonies that federal things that are under federal jurisdiction require the unanimous vote  
and things that are under state jurisdiction even criminal don't require  
but i don't know what the the laws  
do you think that that's an unreasonable uh requirement that they be unanimous  
yeah  
that that would be an interesting change  
it was also allow the uh idea that if you had one person who was uh very [disagreeable] that i mean it it [fundamentally] changes the way the processing [occurs] because uh the fact that it's the the principle is that the fact that it's unanimous [insures] the beyond a reasonable doubt uh [criterion] that it uh increases the the likelihood of getting the proper judgment  
so i i think if anything it would have to be a very close to unanimous decision  
yeah  
actually   i i thought that that would be very interesting thing to do  
i would like to do that  
i've been out here twenty some years  
and i've been called uh three different times  
but i've never actually even made it into the the jury box   and because there have always been a number of people  
and and i've never gotten up there to answer any of the questions  
uh i  
yeah  
i also think that would be really good  
i  
uh_huh  
well the the one thing that i know does seem to happen from people i've talked to on this is that in the situation you just said where it's nine to three or some such number that there's an effect starts being that there's starts being a lot of peer pressure   going on  
and that that uh peer pressure  
and in some cases if it's a long trial the desire of people to get out of there and not be stuck in there for a very long time that people are changing their minds for the wrong reasons  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i understand  
you you would hope that if you were in that situation that you'd have the moral [fortitude] uh to hold out if you believed that that was really the proper response  
i think of the movie uh twelve angry men  
you ever seen that movie  
uh yeah  
it's it's it's exactly that situation where uh  
it's henry fonda  
and it's eleven to one  
and he's the one  
i i believe he was opposed to the conviction  
and uh and he held on  
and  
well anyway i uh i uh-oh  
yeah  
i did forget to ask you  
what is your name by the way  
oh you're ann  
hi  
but uh anyway i uh  
lot of lot of interesting [procedural] things i think would be a good be a good change if we're going to be talking about the subject tonight which in some i guess criminal courts the  
yeah  
the one of which was uh something something that's been going on because of the rodney king trial here in town  
and that is uh and that is the [exclusion] of jurors because of or in spite of their race uh  
yeah  
well they they uh the the people that  
the uh the jury that's trying uh the officers in that case   is is an all white panel  
and there's been a lot made in the local papers of that   fact  
they have  
they have  
they moved it up to the county north of here  
um it's in [ventura]  
and there's there's still quite a bit of publicity obviously  
and it's kind of it's kind of debatable whether you could get a fair trial almost anywhere because that uh that  
yeah  
it was everywhere  
so you know  
and i i think it would be very difficult to find someone uh find a panel that would be not have seen it and and known of what was going on  
exactly  
you know um the you know  
i i'm kind of torn on this issue  
it's like they're saying well on the one hand they're not he's not getting a jury of his peers which is in some ways i think true  
but on the other hand it's it's also saying that white jurors are not going to are not going to convict  
uh you know they're not going to do their job which is  
the whole the whole point of being on a jury is to convict or or or uh let go based on whether   or not the person whether or not the evidence says   that there's enough  
um  
they well  
i guess it depends on who you talk to  
i haven't talked to uh i haven't talked to a whole lot of black people on it  
but i i rather imagine there's there's some [snickering] about it and a lot of the usually [fatalistic] uh here we go again folks   kind of stuff  
no  
no  
i you know  
on on on one hand you know on the one hand you almost hope that they convict them because it's they have that very strong piece of physical evidence showing   these people beating the heck out of this guy um  
uh_huh  
well  
yeah um  
i don't know you know  
and and again there's something else you know there was a uh something else along those lines  
there was a girl out here named [latausha] [harlins]  
i don't know if it's it's got it's got as much notoriety  
but it's rather almost as [infamous] here as it was as it was with uh the rodney king problem  
um a girl walked into a korean owned store  
and uh they she had a dispute black girl  
she she had some kind of a dispute over some orange juice with the with the owner of the store  
the owner of the store popped her  
yeah  
and and oh of course they  
you know the criminal case went up  
and and the judge gave the woman who shot her shot the girl a uh uh practically a suspended sentence  
i mean it was   it was just  
she gave her no time in jail you know all of these things  
and then oh there's we have these we have people wondering around with petitions trying to get the judge  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it would make it would make life easier  
yeah  
but  
uh i'm ann  
criminal courts  
yes  
oh really  
uh_huh  
i see  
i can't  
i'm a little surprised they didn't get a change of [venue] on that one  
oh  
well that videotape was just horrible  
yes  
oh i agree with you  
but i can't imagine that they would do an all white jury without having some sort of of discrimination or or you know uh appeal on not having a jury of his peers and all of that kind of stuff  
right  
exactly  
based on fact  
right  
how interesting  
oh  
so what's the [prevailing] thought within the community  
i mean you know what the news media is going to make of it  
but what about the community  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
that can't be good for los angeles either  
oh exactly  
unfortunately that kind of thing is not limited to a big city like los angeles  
you're going to have it just about anywhere  
there  
but that's that's interesting  
what about the judge who's hearing the case  
is he going to be impartial  
is he going to   be a a good [adjudicator]  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh my goodness  
to get that judge [recalled] i would think  
huh  
that's almost when you kind of wish that there where standardized sentences  
it would  
uh  
you would know the whole world would know what you were facing  
and then it's a matter of of deciding  
okay  
so uh mike what are your opinions on uh trial by jury  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that that seems to make sense  
but leave it up to the more experienced person who knows how it fits into the uh kind of the rate for different  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
they  
right  
well   how do you feel about setting like well for example a car type accident where uh or some incident where someone loses a limb  
do you think the jury should have a dollar figure for losing an arm a dollar figure for losing different body parts  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
huh  
oh out of  
as opposed to the insurance paying the bills  
uh_huh  
well we're  
who who  
do they get they get insured they get insured from other insurance companies  
or how does that work  
oh okay  
your talking about  
sure  
okay  
well  
but in some instances you're going to put companies out of business by taking that stance if they have to take it out of their own [retained] earnings  
that  
for oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that will  
huh  
sure  
okay  
well i work for an insurance company  
so i see a lot of uh verdicts that are pretty [crazily] decided um by juries particularly  
and i know in england the judges set all of the awards  
you know juries will decide the guilt or innocence  
but then they leave the awards up to more learned people  
and i think maybe that [avoids] some of these totally ridiculous you know like millions and millions of dollars  
oh exactly  
each individual jury really doesn't have any perception of what um the going you know if you will the going uh award should be for a certain type of case you know within some kind of range  
when you get one way out like that  
but then really doesn't wind up penalizing the person that they went after  
who it really [penalizes] is their insurance company which then [translates] into higher rates for all of us   if they get some of those mega awards against them  
you know they're not going to sit there and lose money  
if they are losing money then they're going to raise rates  
so it all comes filtering down to us all individually  
and uh granted some people need to be compensated if they have really been [wronged]   you know  
i don't know  
you know some of the health insurance is written that way you know that uh if you buy an accident and death or [dismemberment] policy you know it pre specified in the policy so much  
but i don't know that you can necessarily put a a value on somebody's limb   uh [arbitrarily] that is always going to fit in all cases  
i think maybe you look at uh the age of the person and their station in life and and uh how much longer they have of work years that they would have to put up you know with with that  
i mean maybe you don't award an eighty five year old guy the same thing that you would award a twenty one year old  
i i think it has to be some kind of common sense applied there  
and there may be where the [judiciary] is a little more learned about that type of thing because they can be schooled in that kind of thing  
and that can be part of continuing education maybe for judges  
i don't know  
you know to get into the economics of things uh  
because if they wheel somebody into a courtroom and the jury's heart goes out to that person and they do one of these mega awards   it really you know ultimately is not penalizing the person that they're trying for get away  
if it's a company you know that they're insured unless the award is so staggering that it goes all beyond their layers of insurance which is another pet peeve of mine when they do award [punitive] damages  
i think those should be [uninsurable]  
i think those should have to be paid by the corporation itself that   that did the damage  
yeah  
yeah  
for for honest mistakes where they've done something and and something happens  
one of their employees causes damage or something  
sure that's what they buy insurance for  
well i was just talking about any company  
uh   let's just say a lumber manufacturing company  
and   uh somebody is on the premises  
and one of the employees actually is driving by with a [forklift]  
and he pushes the wrong button  
and he drops a load of lumber on somebody  
and it [injures]   them  
sure  
insurance should pay for that  
well i'm not talking about any loss  
i was talking about only losses that are judged for a [punitive] damage which is another category of the juries are awarding damages these days based on the person's actual injuries and what they are due  
and then they are awarding a second amount as punishment to the company which is a usually a lot less  
but it's an an amount their designed to sting them a little for their   [negligence]   for gross [wanton] [negligence] in a claim  
and unfortunately the the  
lately the courts have been deciding that those could be paid for by insurance too  
so again it never really [penalizes]   the company doing the wrong  
they can go right on doing the same old thing they always used to  
and if if they know some practice is wrong you know  
i'm not talking about your isolated occurrences  
i'm talking more about the you know the thing that they know  
maybe they're [willfully] manufacturing something that they know is hurting people out there  
and they continue to do it even after they become aware   of that  
then i think they ought to have to pay something out of their own pocket  
well have you ever served on a jury  
well i was called  
and then i was not chosen  
oh really  
well uh could you give me an example of a case where you think that  
well i mean i think  
are you just trying to say that criminal cases are more uh tangible  
or  
well do you think that that in a civil case if there was majority rule that it would be easy for someone to be set up  
no  
i'm not  
well i mean i think that there are many cases in our judicial system where justice is not served  
say  
but uh  
and i also think just like you were talking about before why you were chosen to be on a jury that uh the just the process of picking jurors is not always objective  
no  
i've not  
i've been called  
but i had to beg off from the duty  
and you  
um  
well i was i was uh originally chosen primarily i think because i was a young fellow  
and they tend to view the younger fellows as more likely to hand down a guilty verdict  
i don't know why  
something i picked up in a psychology class some time ago  
yeah  
it's that the younger they are they tend to be more conservative for some statistical [oddball] reason  
and they kind of liked me  
i looked and all that stuff  
and they  
i don't know what they saw in me  
but they saw it  
but uh back to the issue is uh  
i don't know  
at times i feel that a unanimous decision is warranted especially in cases in which there's no smoking gun  
but there too there are also cases in which i feel a majority rule might be acceptable particularly i think in civil cases  
in criminal cases i'd like to see the [unanimity] remain  
but in civil cases i think a majority rule by by jury would be sufficient  
well in a criminal case say one in which you know there is like say assault or some such i think there ought to be a unanimous uh vote because by law and by constitution there must be proven beyond a shadow of a reasonable doubt that the person in question did this  
and in civil law there you know is such a thing as like let's say uh [misappropriations] or misuse of financial instruments or something like that  
a majority rule i think would be more in line as there is no real smoking gun in the civil cases  
i don't know if i'm making any sense or not  
yeah  
often there's more [incriminating] evidence  
like for instance say uh  
and also too i think i'm i'm [tempering] this and the fact that the consequences are much more uh serious in a criminal case  
um well i really can't say for certain truth be known  
uh as it stands there's there's many ways and means by which a person can be set up both uh in a civil uh civil and criminal case  
i mean the uh documentary the thin blue line pretty much demonstrated that  
you know i don't know for if you're familiar with that or not  
a uh fellow when he was much younger uh was tried and convicted and sentenced to death  
fortunately in his case the death penalty was revoked  
and uh so he served out his his sentence until it was discovered by a fellow who was making a documentary called the thin blue line that this guy had basically gotten railroaded through the judicial system  
the case was [reopened]  
and he was [exonerated]  
yeah  
many laws but little justice  
oh certainly not  
certainly not  
and you know they like to think that they're getting someone who's objective in all this  
but they're really looking for someone who will pretty much fulfill the [lawyers'] desires  
you know the  
because you get up  
and and they ask you a few questions  
both sides do  
and then you you're either challenged which is  
you know each attorney can use that as much as they like  
or i think it's a limit now  
they probably have a limit now  
but they pretty much go through that  
and then you have to give a reason to the court why you can't serve  
for me it was financial hardship  
so but onto the thing uh i was never aware that juries had any say on recommending sentencing  
it was always my impression that the justice himself or herself had the final say  
right  
uh actually i lived over in europe for a couple of years  
i lived in germany  
and in germany they don't have the jury system  
what they do is they have uh three judges basically  
and you get up there  
and the prosecuting attorney presents his evidence  
and your defense attorney presents their evidence  
and those three guys take the evidence go off figure it out and then come back and say whether you're guilty or not  

uh_huh  
wow  
well you know it's it's one of those things  
i mean uh uh i would have to look at it  
if they did it with the uh just the judges the police have to do a lot better job of making sure that their evidence is [airtight]  
because the judges sitting in that kind of stuff day after day they know all the procedures  
they know what's good and what isn't  
they'd be able to say i'm sorry  
you can't use this as uh evidence you know because it was either [illegally] obtained or whatever  
and you know you wouldn't have this uh uh [theatrics] where the lawyer jumps up and presents it to the to the jury  
and then the judge says oh no  
disregard that  
come on  
any jury's not going to disregard the evidence you know  
that may very well be  
uh  
yeah  
that's true  
you  
well   how would you go about changing it  
leave the details up to somebody else huh  
yeah  
well you know uh talking about the lawyers you know what might very well do uh cause a uh a drop in the number of lawyers and things like that is to set the fees for cases  
it's kind of like do it do it in the similar vein similar like uh v c r or television repair  
if you take your t v in a lot of these t v repair places will say well i'll repair your t v for a hundred dollars  
and if he gets in there and starts rooting around and finds something in there that's really tremendously wrong with it then he eats it  
he he repairs it gives it back to you and takes your hundred dollars  
now if he comes in and says you know i'll repair your your v c r or somebody else's v c r for a hundred dollars gets in there  
maybe it's a blown fuse  
takes him two minutes  
he fixes it  
he still charges you that hundred dollars  
so maybe if we did that with the lawyers so that you know whether it's a murder case or a you know a civil uh somebody suing somebody else you get x dollars for that case  
and that's it  
none of this  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
um well you you know you're talking to part of them that's paying for that  
that's right  
you know that's it it's it's amazing  
and and when you stop and look at it i mean the judges they're all former lawyers  

our judicial system is in such total chaos  
i think what they need to do is they need to somehow take the money out of it  
i mean when you have a man that's signed a a a statement saying he's guilty  
we have a a family called all day family  
they were all murdered  
all the people signed [confessions]  
they went to a trial by jury  
they been trying these people now for twenty two years ever since i was a child  
and what they've done is they've bought mercedes after mercedes after mercedes is what they've done  
has nothing to do with justice whatsoever  
uh that's true  
i i i think our judicial system is attorney welfare myself  
i i hold it in the [utmost] [contempt]  
the uh my favorite is the police department  
they're not aimed at the criminal  
the judicial system is aimed at the citizens  
because you and i we have work schedules  
we can be called at work  
we have social security numbers  
they can trace us down  
we have telephones  
then we have checkbooks  
criminals have none of these things  
they're real difficult to catch  
and if they do catch them they don't get any monetary gain out of it whereas us we write a check  
so where do you think they target their efforts  
they target their efforts toward the citizens   not the criminals  
you know that's a  
i've [nailed] the problem down  
but i  
yeah  
i'm going to have to leave those details like what would you do about  
i think to begin with you would you would have  
like here in atlanta area our crime rate is just astronomical  
yet you go out on the streets  
and they're giving speeding tickets  
i think somehow you have to separate the revenues from  
now   i firmly believe in that  
because when you get the most heinous of crimes have you ever noticed you always get the most [renowned] defense attorney  
and here's this bum that didn't have a job  
and he's got a attorney that you and i could never afford  
who's   paying for that  
yeah  
and you're talking to the other half that's paying for it  
yeah  
well that's another problem  
i think to really correct the judicial system you have to get the lawyers out of it  
i mean they're they're totally and morally bankrupt without any ethics whatsoever  
and with that type person running it i mean you you could expect that you  
actually to tell you the truth i think uh jury selection is a uh prime uh discussion topic in terms of possible improvements on uh uh finding of uh guilt  
yeah  
i think there's a limit on that  
the uh the uh   [peremptory] challenges are limited to i don't know how many  
but you can  
um yeah  
it seems to me i'm always challenged [peremptorily] also when i go to these things  
i think i have a severe [demeanor] or something  
uh  
but typically you know uh typically uh everyone gets involved in uh the jury process  
and i suppose an elitist might say well you really want someone who is well educated to be able to to [winnow] the facts from the from the prejudice  
right  
so  
so if you're a   [nincompoop] on trial you'd you'd have to have   [nincompoops] to uh  
um  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i suppose you may be right on that  
matter of fact i've heard that   i've heard that some of the information uh is prevented from reaching the jury like uh mitigating circumstances or or [preceding] uh criminal record or things of this nature that  
oh is it  
oh i didn't realize that  
okay  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you what you're saying is this if there is the second offense then you execute them  
um  
what about uh white collar crimes like uh theft of trade secrets  
oh really  
like what  

uh i certainly can't argue with that  
definitely does need some improvements uh  
and the lawyers can throw people out for no reason whatsoever just because they want to  
i think it's   four or five  
i can't remember which  
i was on a jury trial last year  
only i got kicked out as uh the last selection that the uh defense got  
um  
that uh  
right  
but it still has to be a group of your peers  
see  
so if it's your peers and you're not educated   then  
you want   you want a [nincompoop] jury because they'll sympathize with you a bit   as well as hopefully being honest people and do their best to comply with the facts as they were presented to them  
so that's why the defense is there picking through them whereas at the same time the uh the prosecutor sitting there picking through them because he wants somebody who will give him uh a guilty verdict if the facts warrant  
so uh i think the jury selection process is pretty neat  
but i don't think that the jury ought to be the ones picking the punishment   afterwards  
i think that should be left up to people who have some knowledge in the subject and more knowledge than a jury would have  
you're talking about the person's already been found guilty right  
and many times i've seen on trials they have on t v the jury will make a recommendation as to leniency or as to the death penalty or whatever  
but i think that it should be up to the judge and the uh lawyers to make the decision as to what the actual penalty will be  
maybe just the judge because they're the people who know what the system is   and what it's all about   and believe in the system  
uh and i think that would provide a more fair sentencing procedure   as opposed to an emotional sentencing procedure   also may be a more consistent sentencing procedure  
well [preceding] criminal record according to the judicial process has nothing to do with the current crime  
but when it comes to uh sentencing for punishment of course if the person's never done anything bad before according to the judicial system then they're going to lean towards a slightly more lenient side  
and the jury's supposed to be [notified] of criminal records when it comes to sentencing by jury  
at least in california they're supposed to be  
not during the trial  
during the trial as to whether they're guilty or not has nothing to do with their background  
but when it comes to what kind of sentence you're going to lay down i think that uh that they should  
i don't i don't know that they always have because i never sat all the way through a jury trial  
they get too boring  
well if it's a second offense the punishment should certainly be more severe than a first offense because obviously the rehabilitation process did not work the first time  
so you got to give them either more time in the system or a different process that will hopefully work better  
when it comes down to things like alternative sentencing i'm all for that for uh small crimes [infractions] and misdemeanors or parking tickets or traffic tickets that have gone to warrant  
you give them the option of working off their time doing civil service sort of things  
i think those ought to be punished a whole lot worse than they are  
yeah  
well uh say [embezzlement] right  
you get a guy down the street who comes up uh carrying a  
okay  
i see  
a   a good a good southern solution  
uh_huh  
you'd have to say that  
uh i don't know  
the the things they asked to talk about were whether the uh whether the judge should be the one that does the uh sentencing  
and seems to me that that's i think that's the way it's done now  
uh at least   my understanding of the law which isn't very good  
uh it seems to me that the judge does it  
and i i think that's probably all right in that they you know maybe know what the the norm is   for a particular thing  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and i think that may i that may be an exception as well  
because i think that  
doesn't the jury decide on the death penalty rather than than the judge  
yeah  
yes  
in   fact they're going to execute somebody at the end of this month  
and uh there's a big uproar going on right now uh  
the uh governor you know has been trying to decide whether he's going to commute it or not  
you know it's someone who had uh   killed two teenage boys here in san diego as a matter of fact  
yeah  
uh_huh  
something inexpensive  
yeah  
i think this particular case has been like ten or fifteen years  
but i guess there have been several cases where people have been executed by mistake  
and   you'd hate to be one of those  
the other thing they asked about was whether uh uh the verdict should be required to be unanimous   which again i think is the way it is now that all the all verdicts  
well maybe not  
i don't know  
at least in capital cases i'd think they'd have to be   unanimous  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the paper here tonight had a thing about the noriega trial   and that there's one juror that is is uh different than the other eleven  
and uh they've only [deliberated] four hours or   something  
and they say they're [hopelessly] [deadlocked]  
and the judge told them   they weren't [hopelessly] [deadlocked] yet  
yeah  
six months so far they said  
so  
maybe they could go with a with a nine hundred number and have people dial in and give their uh vote  
right  
oh really  
that's interesting  
well have you ever served on a jury  
uh_huh  
i got called  
but i uh never uh got selected for a jury  
i sat for ten days   in a court room while they went through the selection process  
and they had some guy that was uh defending himself  
i say they uh  
probably the best things to do is is tie them with a rope and throw them in the water  
if they sink   they're innocent right  
yeah  
uh so uh how do you how do you feel  
that's of course being facetious  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i guess also what the system will absorb  
probably more tuned in to that  
possibly though on uh capital cases like maybe the death penalty  
uh i'm kind of [undecided] on that whether the judge should have the sole  
i mean he could have like a personal prejudice  
you know judges are people like everybody else   even though they're they're supposed to be impartial  
but maybe uh  
i i think that's i think that's the way it is  
uh whether they they decide whether or not they uh the accused or whatever would get the uh get the death penalty  
do they have a death penalty in california  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i  
something like that i've got no problem with it uh  
i guess the way i think about it is not it shouldn't necessarily be thought of as revenge  
it's just like if you've got like a dog that's running wild and biting people  
put it to sleep you know  
just get it out you know  
it's not able to fit in you know  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
uh i guess   kind of the way i think about it also is they just  
if somebody gets the death penalty they're they're judged guilty  
they got the death penalty  
they should have one year and one appeal cover all their bases with one appeal  
and if not you know don't don't let them sit up there on death row for you know fifteen years  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
oh i'm sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i believe it is   in capital  
i think in like uh lesser cases it's like ten out of twelve or five out of six whatever   how ever many is on sitting on a jury  
i i believe that's the way it is  
but i'm pretty sure you're correct on capital cases uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh no  
i'm telling you go one way or the other  
that that's probably an expensive trial uh  
yeah  
probably  
yeah  
probably  
you know i'm not sure there's a number  
it's probably like thirty forty thousand dollars a day you know worth of all the free for all  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's been so long i've practically forgot who noriega was you know  
that has been going on  
my uh cousin is a f b i agent down in miami  
yeah  
so she follows that stuff pretty closely  
but uh  
yeah  
she's not involved in that that case  
but she does  
no  
i haven't  
i never have  
my wife has  
but i i haven't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
why don't you go ahead and start  
so you think if if trials were held by judges or experts that they they would tend not to uh admit not to convict people on circumstantial evidence  
you know i i attended a trial in uh germany when i was a student  
and uh   that's the sort of system they have  
the trials are held by a panel of three uh three or four judges who are well  
they're like lawyers i guess  
they're experts in the law  
and uh there there really isn't a jury  
and uh uh they do the questioning also  
the judges do the questioning  
and uh   they  
uh  
i think it's a lot harder to get off on technicalities also because they uh uh the judge is also sort of a jury uh  
but i'm not sure i like that  
i think i prefer the jury system myself  
uh well actually i think in most criminal cases it wouldn't make any difference whether it was a couple of judges or jury  
what what i worry about is cases where it's the government against the individual  
that's where you really need a jury of peers   because uh anytime the government uh is the government against the individual you need you need the protection of ordinary citizens  
i think that's really the only thing i guess where i would like to see the system change is uh uh there ought to be a a well  
i guess i don't think that uh uh juries need to decide sentencing all the time  
i think maybe a judge is a better judge of that  
or uh  
yeah  
well if you drag twelve people into a courtroom i trust them to make the right decision as to whether someone's guilty or innocent  
that's usually a matter of who to believe and what facts to believe  
but people who don't have day in and day out life long experience with what prison is really like and what the options are to ask them to decide for one case on one person based on what they see i think that is maybe uh a little bit naive  
in texas here people tend to get whipped up into a frenzy and slap long sentences on people  
uh it's kind of uh uh a hanging jury atmosphere  
but in a lot of places i think people bend over the other way  
but i guess i guess i like the system that they have in some places where the defendant gets to choose whether he's goes before a jury for sentencing or whether the judge gets to choose it  
some some cases in some jurisdictions they can do that  
i kind of like that system  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
and lawyers blow sand in their eyes  
i would like to see most civil cases tried before a panel of experts instead of ordinary juries  
insurance cases and things like that  
where  
and uh there would be more honest settlements instead of this uh [tugging] of people's heart strings and uh   making them cry and feel like they're doing somebody good by giving them   or giving them two million dollars to make up for the pain and suffering  
so in i think in criminal trials you need the jury as a defense against the government  
but  
okay  
well i think the court systems could stand some improvement  
uh trial by jury is good  
but a lot of time a lot of cases uh is circumstantial evidence that that convicts a person which i don't think is all the time good because sometimes it's hard to get all the facts and to prove a person innocent i mean prove a person guilty if you don't really know or you don't really have an [eyewitness]  
and how can you convict somebody on circumstantial evidence is beyond me  
i don't know  
i think so  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
you think you prefer the jury  
you think your chances are better  
well that's true  
uh_huh  
well sometimes the sentencing is still is not fair  
i mean even if well the jury i guess they do decide that  
but but i'm like you  
in a case like that most of the time its  
i don't know  
maybe i'm too too uh uh conservative when it comes to that  
the sentencing is really light compared to what i think they should be in a lot of cases   you know uh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh really  
yeah  
that's that's not a bad system  
but i i do think it needs to be [shaken] up a little bit  
but the thing is too maybe they need more of a i don't know more of a expert types   to to be on some of these jury cases because most time you just pick you know joe blow or whoever and a good citizen or whoever   and call them in  
exactly  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
uh_huh   putting on a act or whatever  
uh_huh  
exactly  
exactly  
well the question was talking about the juries  
and uh one of the things i thought about was a lot of the drunk cases that they were having that especially for repeat offenders that uh  
maybe there should be [stiffer] penalties for those people who come back again and again  
uh so that uh a judge i think would be the most appropriate person to uh to be able to sentence somebody since they do it over and over again every day  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see i agree with you  
uh one thing i heard was this where they have instead of going to the regular court they have a a mock court  
i mean it's supposed to be all legal and everything  
uh you go  
and you present your case  
the other side presents their case  
and you're done with it  
it's almost like the night court we see on t v  
uh and uh but it's not that we have uh such  
it didn't backlog or all of the uh the cases that are uh all ready [pending]  
uh so i  
that was one thing i thought about that would be really neat if we could do it that way  
yes  
yes  
now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh yes  
and and i wasn't i didn't mean that  
i i didn't mean that no  
because i mean gee whiz if i was uh uh didn't have that right you know not to have a jury that oh  
yes i would feel uh you're right that my civil rights had been violated  
but i meant for some when both parties agreed that yes we're going to have a judge here  
we're not going to have a jury you know  
let's get it over with  
sort of like car accidents you know  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
giving a different sentence  
uh_huh  
the take  
right  
well i i we're at liberty to to talk and and [meander] as long as it's all on the same theme  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
well you can tell i haven't been in too many juries judges chambers or anything like that  

well i was called once when i was nineteen  
and uh but i was doing so many other things that they took [pity] on me  
and i was doing school and things like  
they they let me out  
i've never had to it since  
and that was almost twenty years ago  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
how interesting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i i kind of agree with that   because i think in some cases uh the jury may not even have   the information about other crimes the person has committed  
uh i i think that in some cases that's considered to prejudice the current case  
so a judge you're right should have the whole [dossier] of the criminal   there  
and if they're judged guilty would probably be in a better position to give an appropriate uh sentencing  
uh_huh  
in other words not   not  
there would be some types of crimes for which you're not guaranteed a jury trial  
i i i don't  
there's a point on which we don't agree  
i would tend myself to say that we should continue to guarantee a jury trial for criminal cases anytime a anytime a one of the parties wants one  
and i usually it is the defendant i guess that wants to have the jury hear the case  
so i'm not out for streamlining things to the point where we uh   take that you know  
that would require a change in the bill of rights i believe  
and so  
oh oh okay  
right  
well i think that's all ready possible  
i think   that you can waive the right to a   jury trial uh  
yeah  
so i agree that that should be encouraged  
people should know that that's an option just in case they feel they have to have a jury trial  
but i think most lawyers do a pretty good job of making that evident to to clients unless they feel they can you know [tweak] a jury into   giving a different sentence or possibly if it's a civil case giving higher uh you know awards of money or something   since usually the lawyers get a percentage of the the award  
yeah  
and i suspect it in cases like  
i guess we were supposed to be doing criminals though rather than civil  
is that right  
yeah  
well uh in the case of   civil uh things i think maybe the the use of the jury is very   often to the lawyer's advantage  
and i think that may be where jury use is overdone  
i mean there are cases where they could be settled   maybe   out of court a little more efficiently  
but the lawyers are really uh  
it's to their advantage to play to as big an audience   as possible  
so uh i was wondering too if they were thinking of about the judge making awards in civil cases   not just sentencing in in a criminal cases  
uh i'm not so sure i'm in favor of that  
but i am in favor of it for criminal cases  
so there's a difference of my view there for those two  
have you ever had to serve jury duty  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it isn't  
sort of amazed me they first caught up with me for the first time   in uh  
that would have been about uh twenty years too  
uh uh just last year  
and uh the case i heard was a criminal case  
and it seemed it really   trivial  
it involved two bicycles  
we didn't do the sentencing  
the judge did  
so  
we we [rendered] a verdict  
and then the judge was the one to do the sentencing  
and that was here in wisconsin  
so i i don't know if that varies from state to state or if it  
i'm [nevin] from [sunnyvale] california  
pretty good  
yep  
okay  
well i definitely think like decisions have to be unanimous  
it's probably the safest thing  
yep  
no  
and even like you know two thirds majority i mean it's  
yep  
yeah  
yeah  
like gives them a little too much power  
plus you know you may be you know doing you know a a guilty verdict  
but it may not be you know it may be for technical reasons  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
it  
there would be much more of that  
no  
but i   i tend to follow it just to just to know what's going on  
yeah  
i do too  
so  
no  
yeah  
i know a little more about civil cases when than criminal cases   which is  
it's more in how you present it versus you know who's right  
yep  
i know  
when i was a couple of years ago involved in some [pretrial] stuff and  
like you know you go say okay we can't bring up this point because then they're going to you know  
the opposition will say this this and this and  
yep  
and it's like the the truth isn't really important anymore  
it's  
yep  
that sounds like a little abuse of our system  
but  
yeah  
but it's for the more general  
people don't want to take responsibility  
you know it's  
yep  
uh yeah  
well originally from chicago  
but  
i really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i haven't either other than  
yeah  
i'm not really sure how we could change the legal system to make it better  
i know  
yeah  
and if it's criminal cases we you can't put them in jail because there's no room left  
yeah  
huh  
not at all  
hi  
this is jim [bliss] from minneapolis minnesota  
how you doing  
good  
uh i guess the topic is trial by jury and   how we should change that or how we would change it  
uh i'm ready whenever you are  
so uh what are your what are your thoughts on the subject there  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's probably a good thing  
yeah  
i mean it's to easy to get a [quorum]  
and simple majority won't do  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
[quorums] are to easy to get  
and there's always that that chance that one or two people could be playing devil's advocate for a good reason you know  
so it's it's  
definitely  
but uh i don't know  
i could i couldn't believe they suggested that judges should be doing the sentencing  
yeah  

i i know of a couple of people at least who would be arguing with that or arguing against that pretty [vehemently]  
but uh  
yeah  
about the only good thing i would say about that is it that it would uh hurry the process up a bit  
but i mean even now we've got i know we've got plenty of cases out there where people have been wrongly convicted and things like that  
and   that's what the trial by jury  
i mean jeez if if the judge was doing it himself without any checks and balances   whose to say  
yeah  
no doubt  
are you involved in the legal system at all  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
i've got some friends that are lawyers  
so  
one of them just got his law degree  
but uh to tell you the truth i'm not real familiar with uh the system of jurisprudence the way it is right now  
i really haven't studied it in depth  
yeah  
i'm sure of it  
because a lot of those things it's all it's in it's largely a matter of viewpoint   and who can argue their case better  
uh it's kind of weird  
i don't know  
you i always think about watching the people's court or something   and how weird those cases get  
it's just  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and it's like boy the stuff that they can twist around   is  
it's pretty amazing  
yeah  
it's not  
and then you get people who who bring in cases just because they want to bring them up just because  
like this this friend of mine's pretty obnoxious  
and he really gets into suing people  
and so he'll he'll sue just about anybody just for the chance to get into court   and argue his case you know  
it's like   it is it's it's wasting people's time and the taxpayers' money and everything else  
but uh  
yeah  
and and most of the time they're looking to place blame uh   and stuff  
see you're from california  
is that right  
oh okay  
i was just thinking  
i wonder i wonder how how the civil system or the court system must differ between there and say where i am in minneapolis  
from what i understand it's all pretty the same except when you get to louisiana  
and louisiana is completely different cause it was based on the  
what is it  
it's based on common law  
and   the rest of the country is not or something like that  
pretty strange  
but uh fortunately i never have had to go in   even even for jury duty  
but uh that friend of mine's telling me that i might have to go in for uh as a witness  
he may [subpoena] me  
so we'll see what happens  
but uh  
yeah  
it's  
there are too many big problems you know  
there's there's such a backlog of court cases right now   you know to try to get them all in in a good time  
and we already have too many lawyers as it is  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
and in fact they're even letting some go  
i i i'm originally from florida  
and it's like   it seems like every year they let out more and more just cause they don't have room for them you know  
that's not a that's not a good solution either  
i'm not real sure what the  
you want to go first  
okay  
uh one of the things they talked about was uh did we what do we think about a judge making the decision  
and i really don't agree with that  
i think that the trial by jury is better uh you know than having a unanimous decision rather than to have one person be responsible  
i don't think that they could be objective in every case every time  
you know what i mean  
yeah  
right  
that's it  
well i i feel the other thing too uh  
they were saying uh you know what new ways could could it you you know change the system  
i i really think that uh we spend a lot of time uh going through appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal  
i mean if you go to a trial by jury and especially if a person has confessed if they have been caught you know point blank in the crime   there's uh no question  
it's beyond a reasonable doubt  
you know all these things  
i mean you know   we've gone through this over and over again  
and it can go on for ten twenty   years  
i i think this is a little ridiculous  
i think the only people who benefit from that are the lawyers  
i i'm serious  
and i think that the lawyers have caused a lot of the problems that exist in the in the criminal system today with plea bargaining  
you know if someone is ill  
well  
well i know  
that's what i'm saying  
but i think a lot of all of the whole criminal system is messed up in in that regard  
i mean you know people who commit uh crimes that they  
i don't know how it works exactly  
but   you know they get lesser sentences  
and i understand that the jails are full of people you know uh   and that they have to do something  
but i think that the reason they are full is because they know that they can get away with it  
you know what i'm saying  
that we don't have uh well a lot of states don't have capital punishment  
and uh   i i think they should  
i and i think if a person is guilty of taking someone's life and like you say it's it's there's no doubt whatsoever like drunk drivers that kill people  
and uh you know all  
they they're caught dead to rights  
i i just think that that's they've they've taken a life  
and if they should pay for it with their life  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
it uh  
yeah  
i know that that  
uh_huh  
and i don't know  
uh what would you do to change it to make it better  
oh yeah  
i i i don't agree with that at all  
imagine the guilt that person would have  
i mean   burned out  
there's   there's no possible way that you could uh you know feel good about yourself  
if you had to do something like that day after day  
no  
not really  
well do you think people should have a trial is they're caught dead to rights like  
i mean [supposing] i come up to you and i just point blank kill you  
in other words you're saying that you have to find out whether it's premeditated or   what the circumstances were  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i  
no  
you can start  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
there's there this topic is kind of [mute] uh  
there there's no way  
we we couldn't survive in a in a juror in a trial system without a jury  
uh one man can never be one man one woman can never be [objectionable] in every case  
uh every person has their opinions  
and that's why jury selection is often very difficult uh  
right  
right  
they shouldn't allow an appeal  
yep  
uh_huh  
oh that's right  
i work for a law firm  
right  
well plea plea bargaining is a different story  
plea bargaining is something completely different  
that that actually prevents trials or at least [speeds] them up  
right  
right  
huh  
right  
we do  
right  
right  
when you're saying as far as the appeal uh procedure was concerned  
we just have the case  
i'm i'm sure you've probably heard of marion berry  
uh his last appeal was was denied two days before his sentence was up  
so i mean his appeal was denied  
and two days later he got out of jail   for cocaine possession  
but uh that was absurd  
there is never there was no reason   the appeal process should have dragged on that long for a six month sentence  
well uh the the only i can i you know  
the appeal procedure is the only thing i can possibly think of  
uh like i said as far as removing of the jury and having the judge sentence that's absurd  
there's no way that could work  
uh but  
oh exactly  
exactly  
right  
no one would want the job  
uh and you know like i said the you know everyone has their opinions about every case  
oh yeah  
i i feel that everyone is everyone is uh entitled to a trial by jury  
that that that right  
well i mean were there witnesses  
right  
right  
that you can't you can't remove the jury regardless of the case  
i mean you could have fifty people in audience watching   a murder take place  
and you you'd still there's still mitigating circumstances  
uh with regard to uh to jury trials i you know i i really feel as though uh jury trials are are uh whatever system has been been used historically in particular jurisdiction you know is really the the only kinds of things that you can use because the the jurisprudence is you know based on on uh you know on accumulated body of law  
and if if you have a situation where you change that body of law then all of sudden they they start they could start going back and digging up all these cases that uh that would be handled differently were   they judged by today's standards  
so i i really don't think it they can really do much of anything to change it  
what do you think  
well won't  
well maybe they used a little bit too much force with stuff like that  
but then   then you know the defense lawyer addressed each and every one of those blows apparently  
and you know the   other two guys sat in the car  
and they didn't get beat up   you know  
rodney got beat up because he he you know he you know he involved himself in some sub self [destructive] behavior  
and uh uh just like the burning and [looting]   is self [destruct]  
everybody   says well this is the nineties  
and they're going to rebuild  
and it'll be even better  
hey what do you think  
you know some some black guy with capital is going to come in and invest in that area  
with everybody with that mind set they they're   they're going to that whole area is going to be turned into residential ghetto you know  
and you might even be able to to use it for for a bombing test site you know  
well everybody is saying this is going to be a new era  
and we're going to [reexamine] this thing  
hey the the average person is going to take a look at that and say [suspicions] [confirmed]  
they're a bunch of animals you know  
how can you really deal with an environment where you're going to lose everything  
forty deaths  
i mean there are forty people   that are dead as a result of that  
and i'm just trying to determine you know how you address how you weigh you know rodney getting getting the hell beat out of him against you know forty deaths  
yeah  
and there's no other  
i'm not exactly sure uh what the circumstances surrounding the deaths  
and i'm very upset that the news media has not identified those deaths   and and pursued it you know because i'm interested in the circumstances surrounding this thing  
is it a [looter] that got shot by a store owner  
i you know  
no tears  
yeah  
and   and so i but i   i suspect a number of them  
you know you you see film of people being pulled out of a car and shot you know in in the street  
and and my reaction is i would have run over fifty people before rather than stop  
and uh and there there would have been just nothing but [carnage] after after after   if i'd been at the wheel  
no one   would have stopped me  
right  
i'm inside the beltway  
you know how capital gang they always say well inside the beltway they think thus  
and so and i say well wait a minute  
i'm inside the beltway  
and i don't think like that  
i'm a government employee  
i'm with the f b i  
yes  
and so uh uh and and the reason i'm doing this whole thing is because rick   whose another government employee wanted a segments of my speech   that   that were done a year ago  
and he wanted another collection a year later  
and so this is my seventh call  
a year ago i did eleven calls  
and so that's that's why uh uh that's why i'm religiously getting on the phone because i have a unique you know i have a unique situation here in that if i don't participate  
uh i i don't think so  
possibly in the jury selection would be the only  
just for example what we're seeing in california i guess  
it makes you wonder uh had the jury been a different group of people what would have happened with that outcome  
uh and and the problems that that has come that has come from this decision that that jury came to after all of us witnessed what we did with the video tape beating uh just makes you wonder i guess whether or not they  
uh_huh  
that's that's bad  
uh_huh  
no  
it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
that's right  
they're only going to suffer  
they're only going to suffer  
they they've defeated themselves with with their [looting] and violence  
uh i understand why they were upset by the verdict just because even those of us that aren't black or uh don't live there or whatever we all saw the same thing on the on the tape  
and uh  
i know  
yeah  
it's really ridiculous  
against forty other people being  
those deaths  
uh_huh  
or just a an innocent bystander or somebody got actually beat to death or what  
um  
or or beaten  
um  
right  
that's that's exactly how i feel too  
i wouldn't have uh they wouldn't have stopped my car for any anything had i seen them coming  
but i was just wondering since you're you're in you're back east uh and a little closer to the the bigger cities than we are in idaho here  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
in what uh section of the government do you work  
oh  
oh that's interesting  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh i see  
right
yes
i i have my primary experience has been as uh an expert witness and uh and two murder trials
and uh in each case it was a retrial
and the sentencing was the same each time which happened in the state of florida happened to be uh death
but in terms of
i well the question also was in terms of mandatory sentencing or mandatory sentences for uh certain crimes
i think depending on uh in certain crimes
i think that they should be mandatory for example uh armed robbery uh if we have convicted i think uh plea bargaining should should be uh a thing of the past uh certain types of uh you know homicides
yes
in in homicides related to other than i guess what are called uh crimes of passion uh for example you know as you as you very well know the great majority of homicides are people [murdering] other people they know mostly people they know so in those instances uh that's uh
i think that there is some leeway there
what is interesting in this regard is the recent case in new hampshire
the schoolteacher
and the life sentence uh she received yes
and it came very quickly surprisingly uh i guess it was uh they brought in their verdict and sentence at the same time
did they not
uh_huh
um
well in answer to you know answer to the question though i still think the sentencing should be in the hands of the jury even though as you say there are some uh people who are reluctant i do not think again in the matter of uh uh that that judges should have the uh the upper hand or the only hand in that sense because i think if
but i i've never served on a jury you probably know this better than i uh if the jury does their job and of course there are those on the jury that do not
i'm sure
but and ask the questions and uh correctly
and then one of things i've always wondered is uh the ability of jurors to to ask questions
well that that that and that's an interesting point
i've never i you know i've thought about it
i've asked myself you know this question before
i've never taken the time to do the research
to answer my own question
but i know that at least during the deliberations of the jury
they can ask questions
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
may i ask you a question
why does your voice sound familiar
to me
that's that's probably why it does
i work for g t e
your your voice when uh i didn't recognize the name
but the more i listen to your voice
i uh i know i have heard it somewhere and i was trying to place where i had heard it
that's very interesting
but now back to the topic
but uh because i work for uh hal [ammon] yes
i am on staff to hal [ammon] to g t e
so
i i will
and which will probably be uh monday as a matter of fact
okay bill
i recognize the name now i
and uh my name is jim moscow and uh so i've heard the name
and uh well back to the topic i guess we've talked long enough bill
but uh all right
well thank you for calling
and nice and have a good weekend
yes
well explain this to me
why do we have
sometimes a petit jury isn't it
and a grand jury
all right now when do we have them just in big criminal cases
when you have both like i was called for a murder trial a few weeks ago
and they had had already had one trial and determined that there was enough evidence to go on and have the second one so is it just murder or what
where you have both
both juries
no
they didn't they had had one
and decided that there was enough evidence and then say
huh_uh
i don't know
and like you said
maybe it was just with the judge i don't know
yeah
yeah
well i'll tell you something
i think ought to be changed
well they sent out eight hundred summons
and about four hundred people showed up
right
all the others had gotten out of it
then the judge went on for several hours explaining to us how the law goes
and some of the [particulars] of the case
and then all these people got to stand up if they wanted to get out of it
well that was about half of us right
stood up and tried to get out
well i mean that took like an hour and a half at least for him to listen to everybody
and then he he didn't let hardly let anybody off you know
it was just like we wasted a prayer i didn't go up there because i knew i didn't have a leg to stand on
yeah
i've been getting out of it the last few years because i was going to school
you know you can plead that
and i had small children
but then i found out that you're not supposed to plead that unless you're the care taker
you know
and i'm not because i have to go to work
and then they were going to daycare
so i shouldn't have been doing that
but anyway punishment
uh_huh
well i i believed in it in some you know cases
but i would feel that it would be very hard for me to impose it on somebody
i think
well
okay
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well this guy that was sitting in in front of me said that he was a private investigator
and he had been [tailing] the woman that was murdered
and as far as he was concerned that this guy was [guiltier] than hell now listen to what he supposedly did he supposedly stuffed paper [toweling] up this women's [nostrils] and down her throat and strangled her
now how this happened was this rich little [socialite] in plano down here in texas decided that she was going to bump off her husband's girlfriend because he didn't want to divorce her
and she wanted to get a stab at more money right by knocking him off
so she hired four guys to do it
and this guy actually did it
now she uh in the mean time took off with one of her lawyers who was also under [inditement] for attempting drugs
among them
yeah
among them cocaine right
so they split anyway they got the lawyer
and he's now going to side with the [cate] with the state
so that he'll get a lesser sentence
yeah
pretty interesting
huh
well now they're going to call people up after they gone through this five page thing that we had to fill out
and decide to call in people two to three at a time
they're going to do this
let's see all through april and may and the trials not supposed to start until june
well that's the beginning of my vacation
i don't want to be picked
i can't i'm a teacher
it's then
or never
anyway
i'm not going to be [summoned] i mean out of four hundred i'm not going to be one of the twelve especially see i put that down that that guy had told me that
but then i've heard that won't make a difference either
yeah
uh_huh
well what do you think can we change the system
but something ought to be done because if you have money you get a good lawyer
and you get off
but if you've got a good lawyer he's going to be able to get more [persuasive] evidence than a poor lawyer would to present
and a lawyer that's you know chosen by the state that really doesn't even want to do it
right
i have never served on a jury
i have been called like only twice in my life
and and uh at the time i've been a legal assistant
and nobody wanted me on their jury
so i've been excused but uh i uh i don't know i look at the people who get excused and and it's supposed to be a jury of your peers
and i'm not sure
it always is
uh and it is a it is a huge burden to put on people who don't know the law uh you know that especially in criminal cases
when you're deciding someone's life
i i'm not so sure that you know that that's something that is that you can really really have the knowledge to do as as just a lay person
well a lot of states
i mean they do set the penalty you know the the judgment at once
it's [rendered] guilty
you know the sentencing is done by the judge in in a lot of the cases uh some cases it is up to the jury
but you know you're told if you find them guilty then this is the choices that they have to make it's either life or death you know
but uh i i don't know
it just it it seems like in some of these cases
i don't know that you could really have an impartial juror because of the media given and i don't you know in today's age of television the coverage like it is there's no way that you can be [shielded] from it
uh_huh
well i know when i've been you know called to jury duty
they had to stand up there or stay you know until they dismissed me
and i look at the people and the reasons that they get dismissed uh before they even you know the selection is is even started
is is your profession you know nine tenths of them are your professional people
who are out in the world you know the rest are retired
or they're housewives or uh you
yes
we're going there
well uh this is a good topic for me because i just got off a jury on friday
yeah
have you ever been on a jury before
uh_huh
really
what kind of a trial was it
uh_huh
oh really
what what did you think was wrong with it
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
wow
yeah
uh_huh
huh that's interesting
really
wow that's
well i've been on two actually and the first one i was on was also a civil trial
but it was real apparent to all of us
what what the situation was so it was real simple
uh and we only [deliberated] as maybe three hours and we weren't really deliberating we were reading through the whole charge and and trying to understand what the judge had written
but i mean beyond that we really didn't have much debate uh but the one i just got off of was capital murder trial
and uh that uh uh i don't know if it's fortunate or not i was an alternate so i sat through five days of the trial and it's sort of like seeing five days of a movie and missing the last couple minutes
because i don't know what happened yet
and
that's right
that's right
and they also they can't report it on t v or anything
so i don't know
you know until it's completely over i won't know what happened
so it was it was really interesting
and and i i i was leaning one way or another
but i really needed to look at some of the evidence to make sure
but it it you know it was fairly clear and i talked to the judge afterwards
and you know and knowing what i know know now which the other jurors didn't know i'd definitely convict the guy because he was he was found involved in two more of them
and he was caught on the scene at the third one
so it was was fairly obvious you know that he had done it and eventually i'm sure
one of the in one of the three trials they'll probably convict him if not the first
but uh
this is the first one
they tried him on yeah
so it was it was
uh i'm in north dallas
where are you
oh okay
well this happened in plano
you'll be thrilled to know
excuse me
uh well the one i was involved was at uh warehouse [beverage] it's on uh i think it's fifteenth and avenue k
and the one he was later involved in was the texaco one
and i don't know what the third one was
but the texaco one
yeah
on friday
but that was just
the guilt and innocence phase and i don't know
you know then there is the punishment phase after that
uh well all they can decide they don't really say we want capital punishment or we want something or life imprisonment you know if they find him guilty
those are the two options
for capital murder
but they had six six choices what he was guilty of
uh but all they can do there is three questions that they have to evaluate one being could he be a future threat to people
well he's already proven that
but you know a couple questions like that
and your answers are yes or no
and if you get
i think it is three [yeses] it's capital punishment or you can decide if there is mitigating fact or something to that effect
but it's not like you go and say you know we we recommend this punishment you just say we answered these questions this way
and it leads you to the punishment
yeah
so it was really interesting
and i wish i knew if they were still in deliberations
but i don't
friday they went into deliberations
but i don't know if the press can report at the end of the the guilt and innocence phase or if they have to wait until the whole punishment thing is over because that will take another couple weeks
so
but it was it was really interesting
well i it
i learned a lot what i didn't enjoy was not being able to plan anything in my whole life
because i mean as far as i knew this could take months some of them do
and that was the thing you know with christmas and everything
and i couldn't make reservations to go home
but uh you know now that it's over it was really interesting
uh
uh we usually do it uh the jury comes to the verdict
and then the judge does the sentencing um i think the jury can recommend something
but in you know in some cases like uh murder in the first degree
but i the ultimate decision is the is the decision of the judge once the verdict has been reached the jury is dismissed and there's a separate hearing for sentencing
uh_huh
well i think it's curious that the sentences that are handed down are usually not served
i think that's a big problem with the criminal justice system
but
yeah
well i i understand the jail overcrowding issue
but i i think in in that case as in so many all they ever do is discuss the problems
and they never do anything to solve them
i think that's why this country's in the shape
it's in now
but i i don't really believe that a jury should do the sentencing i think
yeah
i just don't believe that jurors have the the knowledge the scope and the knowledge to to handle the sentencing whereas the judge does
that's that's certainly true
i just i i don't agree with juries doing the sentencing
but i do agree with trial trial by jury
i just think that's critical
right
well i think that can that makes sense too because it looks like it would be awfully hard to pick jurors that could follow something as in a civil case i mean that was really complicated and had a lot of technical issues in it
but they there are a lot of criminal cases a lot of murder cases that that are really very complicated
and they seem to be able to get through those
[blanche] taylor moore
yeah
yeah
we have you have you heard about the trial that we've got going on now with the uh the man that's accused of molesting twenty three children at a day care center
well that's the uh that's probably one of the biggest child molestation cases in the in the nation's history this man and his wife it's a trial by jury
but it's really going real [ragged] i don't understand how they're doing it
and they he had a hundred and seventy eight charges against him and his [attorney's] managed to get it reduced to ninety three but the jury in that case they've just absolutely sequestered them nobody even unless you were paying attention at the very beginning
you don't even know their names and they uh from what i've been reading in the paper they are the ones who are going to do the sentencing in that
[arsenic] is uh this this [blanche] taylor moore woman was very clever she did it very slowly over a large period a long period of time at least it was it was done very slowly over a large period of time and since the jury has found her guilty now the judge did the sentencing in that
and she's appealing but i'm assuming that she's guilty because i really believe in the jury system
yeah
hopefully they're smart enough not to be [hoodwinked] by legal [ploys] by lawyers and [prosecutors]
do you have any thoughts on uh uh uh our jury system
oh really
uh_huh
what parts of the of the system
would you change
uh_huh
right
right
sure
yeah
and
right
does the system not provide the system provides uh compensation for wages
but they don't provide compensation for like say day care
they don't
oh that surprises me
i didn't know that
sure
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
sure
yeah
huh that's curious i i i never even thought of that before
i i did notice that uh most of the time the juries are males
uh but i'd never thought of any reasons why
or why not
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
where where did you begin
uh_huh
a okay
all right
right
yeah
right
right
yeah
um uh what are your thoughts on uh leaving the sentencing to the judge
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
that's curious
uh i'm i'm currently uh i have been asked to appear in court in denver county court uh for a a traffic violation which i kept uh i i tried to uh plead not guilty by mail and uh for some reason i really [hacked] the judge off and so now i'm supposed to appear in court and and so i've been thinking a lot lately about first of all what i'm going to do
i don't know if i'm going to just go ahead and pay the ticket pay the plea bargain or fight this thing to the end i i wasn't guilty
but it's almost impossible uh you know what what really aggravates me is it's impossible
i'm in graduate school
and they set the court date on a wednesday so to go from dallas to denver uh to fight a ticket on a wednesday would mean i'd have to leave either monday or tuesday and be back
yeah
and i go to school that misses a full week of graduate school
well you just can't survive uh missing a full week of graduate school
uh and uh it's it's completely absurd
first of all that they that i got the ticket
and it's completely absurd that i should appear on a wednesday at court you know i could appear at spring break
uh you know theoretically and i wouldn't mind doing that
but
so i'm trying to figure out what uh what action i'm going to take if any or if i'm just going to go ahead and forget it all
and just pay it to ease my uh ease my pain
but but you know there's there's a point uh i guess you and i being younger uh tend to be a little more idealistic uh uh
but but i see
uh i i definitely see an instance now where maybe i won't be as idealistic where i would be willing to give up my ideals for a little peace of mind
and
tim and i were thinking about trials by jury
and uh i i guess i thought more highly of it until the uh recent william kennedy smith
case where they were telling about how they used uh what they consider scientific methods to choose the right jurors to get the right results you know for their chance
what do you think about that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
right
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
yes
well i know uh fairly recently when that uh one of the court sessions for john wylie price
i remember that uh
and
though i had to agree with some of the things he did
i i [disagreed] with that particular case because he uh they made they got a lot of mileage out that they that that was not a jury of his peers that uh they decided you know that he was found guilty
and then uh then they made note that none of the the jurors were uh black or african american and and it seemed to me that if he wanted if they wanted that uh i mean they chose them deliberately i mean because of all of the publicity that he got
from that
and i really thought well you know one of their points that they made on purpose was they chose people who they felt were not their own peers in order to make the case against him weaker and it just seemed like it wasn't very fair
that that you know that was something that should have been said at the very beginning
and not cost the tax payers the money for that court
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
it's lee
uh and you are bob
uh i have been uh thinking about the topic
and i think it's going to be interesting to see what happens at the criminal justice system's response to the tremendous i guess over load in uh cases they say that these drug cases alone are [swamping] the criminal justice system
i have heard that i have heard that
uh i have even heard that the other end of the [continuum] are some judges who are arguing that uh because the system is so over loaded that they recommend [decriminalizing] some of these things because the courts can't possibly handle all the cases
i think it is going to be very interesting because it's uh it's really become a major expense for us and society
yeah
well you know a
the other thing i think is interesting about this is that they have been experimenting for years in the civil justice system with alternatives to courts where you can rent a judge and i am wondering whether we will eventually go to renting a jury
uh and finding ways to uh like people's court to try some of these cases i think uh the expense is is enormous have you ever sat on a jury
yeah
well it's uh it's it's a major undertaking i mean people have to give up their work
and a lot of their time and uh i i just think it can [overwhelm] us pretty easily
when i hear what people are saying about just the sheer volume of the cases
well there are a lot of people that think that that works pretty well
and it will be interesting to see what uh what we go to because it's uh it's push come to shove as far as i can tell in terms of the sheer volume of the stuff
yeah
oh yeah
it is
well known and it is consistent with what you are talking about in terms of the uh approach to uh the uh you know the people once they get through the trial then i guess you know were are going to see more and more of this kind of thing
i think the jury trial system uh it is going to be interesting to see whether or not
it becomes more [streamlined] uh because of the cost involved in that the uh the topic is an interesting one because of the uh uh price you pay for freedom i guess you know
uh the requirement that that people be given a trial and and then then the issue becomes what do you do once somebody is found guilty
i suppose
yeah
yeah
yeah
have you uh uh in dallas
uh see in the newspapers ever print the names of people who were uh uh picked up as johns uh in under cover operations they they have done that in san francisco
and uh you know it's going to be interesting to see how all these things change
as we look at the cost of it because uh that the
well there was a guy who won in pennsylvania
uh this senator harris [wafford] who said you know
and in this country
everybody is entitled to a lawyer but not everybody is entitled to a doctor and we must spend
i don't know what the figure is but jury trials are just so
uh no
i've never been called for jury duty which i am kind of glad for
i think it would be kind of nice to actually experience it
uh but no
i haven't i have never how about you
really
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
so uh when you did it does the jury actually uh determine the sentence
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well it seems like the whole process
i don't know a whole lot about it
but one thing that i would think is is when the attorneys actually go through the selection of the jury process
it seems to be me that that would that kind of [biases] i mean they have control over
well we want this person
and we don't want this person here
it seems like that could kind of bias the case toward you know their client right
yeah
right
which
an equal balance
i i don't know the the whole process
i it's a good process
i mean it i our country is based on trial by jury
yeah
i really do
also i mean the [forefathers] who whoever came up with the idea
they were surely thinking a lot harder than i can think
but uh it just it seems to work pretty well in most cases then in some cases like the [manuel] noriega i don't see how they could have found anybody in the country who didn't have some opinion on that case
yeah
it is
that's that's one of the things that's the reason why they will often change menus of court and stuff like that to get a jury which doesn't have any
any uh bias towards the case
and it it uh just seems like sometimes the people they are going to end up with have got to be just your basic you know [shmucks] yeah
it's to not know anything about you know or not have formed any type of opinion about some of these large major cases that we have been having lately
it just seems like those
i guess that's the one thing that i think is wrong with it
i don't know what you do about it
but those people are are not going to be
i mean if they haven't formed some sort of an opinion
i uh i don't know what i am trying to say really
but it just
that's right
be
because having not formed an opinion to me says something about the people themselves
well either
they sit in a little hole you know for all their life and don't hear about anything
going on in the world
and i don't see how somebody like that is going to be a very good uh uh i don't form be able to form a very coherent opinion about it
yeah
right
and that seems to be the opposite of what they they actually have to look for
so
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
and uh as far as the i don't think that the uh something should be left up to the judge because that just that gives too much power to any one person
right
yeah
that just uh
i mean for for one person i am sure they have studied the law and have been involved in it for so long
but still i think it's this is suppose to be a system of government by the people even though that's kind of a joke
but it still seems that the people ought to be the ones the crime was against society it ought to be society as a whole you know as represented by the jury
to uh trial by jury and whether it works or not is
yeah
i expect it's uh about as good as one can expect uh i suppose you get an [illogical] verdict now and then but uh the the jurors you mean the people
yeah
i just got called to my first jury duty
uh i never been on a jury
how about you
and were did you did you show up and do it or whatever it was
my brother was on some real complex business case where they were uh asked to decide the exact amount to the penny of fraud in some credit card case you know for
well they went over it in the trial
but they didn't give the stuff to the jury afterward
it was really bizarre uh
yeah
but they have to ask for it and then the the [bailiff] brings it
and they can look at it then the [bailiff] takes it away again it's not like they can just spread it out in their jury room and then you know get out a bunch of calculators and pocket computers and add it all up it was
yeah
right
would you give me an i i i d m s system or something like that
dear judge you know it was it was a very peculiar case i guess that one was didn't work very well uh uh
but
no
no
i don't think so either uh
yeah
yeah
uh i guess i guess nothing else
but uh
well for sentencing
i don't know
does that make any sense i mean depends on
i i don't know what the offense is i guess that's why we have juries just to take each case on a case by case basis
and that's fine
anyway uh
yeah
or
an [organizational] problem you know where where you know the you know it's possible to imagine a corrupt judicial system where you know all the judges are are part of the system
i guess that happened
in chicago once
so
yeah
yeah
i guess they do anyway i guess the only trouble with the jury system i see is it's really darned expensive
and and you know time consuming
and you know and and all these systems of where you can like ask the jury ask each juror what they think about something then kick them out you know i guess they get manipulated a little
yeah
yeah
it's true
beats me uh yeah
in massachusetts it's the judicial system
they're buildings are all falling down
well i guess that gets them a sample good night
sir
take is
so uh what do you think about uh uh how trials in america are right now with the jury of nine or twelve do you think that's fair
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
so you think that uh majority majority rule is good enough for uh deciding on a verdict of guilty or not guilty
uh_huh
uh something that's kind of interesting is uh i lived in europe for a while
and uh in germany they don't have trial by jury
they have trial uh by usually three judges and uh i've discussed with people and it's it's kind of interesting uh kind of an interesting concept
it sounds strange
at first
not to have a jury by your peers
but then uh the argument for it is that uh you know people off the street really don't know much about law and
yeah
and and then uh i guess the argument is that they're easily influenced you know
bye bye
tricks by lawyers you know who do do more psychology than trying to teach them
what's right and wrong or the law they they use uh you know techniques to sway their feelings whereas professional judges uh you know know the ins and outs of the system better
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
i couldn't
right
yeah
definitely
i don't know
i think the that the uh alternative is something interesting to look into uh if you know instead of instead of juries just bye bye
uh uh peers juries by professional judges
uh but i guess uh that would take a major constitutional change here
right
uh i mean i see also how they were you know when they made the constitution they were uh afraid of that kind of thing that you know that uh if the government has all the power to decide who's guilty
and who's not they wanted to make checks and balances against that
right
exactly
right
yeah
it's uh does carry an [implicit] danger with it that way
right
that's true too
you know how does
how does that work
right
exactly
i think it was i think it was more of a danger you know in the seventeen hundreds when uh really you know like the king of england could decide who's guilty
and who's not guilty
i could see how they would want to protect against that
so i think the danger is less today
be less of a risk of you know uh corrupt judges and the government forcing uh you know someone to to be guilty for uh even though they're not or vice versa you know uh
but it's definitely something that would have to be watched very closely if they decided to do it way
exactly
uh_huh
right
right
and and uh you know what what does jury duty mean not not many people really uh
right
that that's a really interesting issue too
and uh you know most people the another interesting thing is you know most people try and get out of jury duty right
so the people that actually become juries are not really just a random sampling of the
kay
uh i i'm not to familiar with the topic because uh i haven't been in that situation
i guess
but i watch a lot of the documentaries on the t v and that kind of thing
it always kind of interests me
and
oh okay
about uh penalty and trials and that kind of thing
if it should be left up to the judge or trial by jury or to the people that kind of thing
yeah
uh and i think the topic was like uh should it be that way
or should it be uh up to the people or uh i think that
yeah
i would assume it would take more of the taxpayers' money for it to go through trial by jury
but sometimes it seems like it comes out the outcome comes out the best in in most cases it comes out the best when it's trial by jury
but i i could see where it could take up a lot of uh the [community's] money that way rather than just leaving it up to the judge
i'd say for the most part
not you know it it's it's hard
it really is
but i
yeah
you can you can
but it seems like when when it's trial by jury
it's a little more detailed it's a little more slower and uh i don't know you
it's just it it requires a little bit more thinking
uh requires a little more research that kind of thing
that's why i say it probably in most cases
i would think it would the outcome would be better in most cases not always but uh
uh_huh
oh really
huh
right
right
yeah
i heard about that
yeah
yeah
that's that's real scary you know i i i just think things are there's a lot of changes right now that are going on
and it's getting to be where it's really it's just real scary
uh i don't know
but then again i guess it takes up a lot of your taxpayers' money and time and uh i don't know it's just it's i don't know
that's a hard one you know
yeah
uh_huh
do you feel that that's yeah
right
i they had a a documentary on that on uh do you ever watch forty eight hours
they had something very similar to that
and uh and that's real scary too you know i mean to really think about it really is
hello
hi
nicole
i'm mary ann
uh i'm in mckinney
i see
okay
no
not at all
and yet long enough
if we were calling back and forth
it would be a toll call
uh if if i understood correctly it was what what changes we might uh suggest or whatever for the justice system is that
perhaps above my head sentencing
and would all the jurors have to agree on okay
that would be a good place to start
all right
have you ever served on a on a jury trial
was it was it a criminal
okay
oh oh
oh my
huh
uh
it really does sound like it was a self defense kind of thing
no
i served on on both a criminal and a a civil uh jury and in my criminal trial he [pled] guilty uh to the first to to kidnapping and so we went through the second part of the trial because in texas
there are two parts first of all to find if they are guilty or innocent
he already said he was guilty
so then then we go through the trial to determine what uh punishment should be meted out
so we still went through three days of of uh testimony and so forth
and and witnesses saying oh he's an [upstanding] young man just weak and was led by another guy
and so forth
so we were the ones that that came up with the sentence
and the judge gave us some parameters and said you know according to the law it can be no more or no uh no more or less than
and he gave the the number of years
and he said it would also include a a possible fine up to ten thousand dollars and and we had that that took us six hours just to agree on what we thought was appropriate for this young man
uh it wasn't the easiest thing i've done
but no nor was it hard to us the young man had kind of taken care of it when he said he was guilty
so we did not we didn't have to struggle at all with that
it was
now what's fitting and and we'd gone through all that
so i i don't know
i thought that was easier than than trying to decide his guilt or innocence
yeah
i i probably would not mind letting the judge do the sentencing as long as the jury of of peers were [determining] guilt or innocence for one thing we didn't know that the others involved in the trial had uh i i mean had
i mean involved in the crime had already come up for trial we couldn't know what had come of their uh sentencing
and and we couldn't know that until after we had made our findings so it turned out we had done about what the other juror had done
and so it you know we felt a little better
but i think if that could be in the hands of of someone who knew the law and could be [privy] to that information seems like it would be fairer since it's state uh laws yes
it now
it may be on some federal laws you know it it this was a we were dealing with uh with the state laws not necessarily
not necessarily federal that may have something to do with it
and it may be too that if it were um a capital crime uh capital murder or something like that that it may be different
yes
it would
i had a friend who sat in on a
or who was on a jury recently for a murder
but the man was not being tried for capital murder and so that was not even an option uh the death penalty was not an option
so in in this case everyone on the jury felt that it should have been
and they were very convinced the man had no redeeming uh qualities and couldn't be rehabilitated
and they were they were really upset that he was getting off so lightly for the heinous crime that he had been involved in
i'm real glad that i don't that i don't work in that kind of a a back background i'll take my job any day
right
i don't work with perfect people anymore than anybody else does
but i can handle the [imperfections] that i'm around
i i could not work in the in the uh criminal area for very long as a as a police officer as uh someone who works for the court system or whatever
so anyway back to the original question
i really think i if if we were still allowed to choose guilt or innocence
i'd be more than happy to let the judge determine the uh the sentencing
um
i do too
oh i bet
i see
okay
big deal
oh you make eight dollars now in dallas county huh
it's only seven fifty here in collin it probably is which is about what it costs you to park your car
right
oh do they
oh okay
yeah
oh
i can see how that would be difficult
oh that would be tough
what about the other suggestion that they had that uh about the all the jury agreeing on the sentencing do you feel that that is a requirement that there should be agreement i think i do too
uh_huh
it's it's it's so easy anyway for everybody to just kind of become a
yes
man and get carried up along with the emotions
and so if there's somebody who's strong enough to stand up with a specific doubt
i would a whole lot rather go through the expense of another trial because of a hung jury than that a justice not be meted out correctly
so
i agree with boy
it's really easy to discuss something when you both agree
well it took us six hours to reach agreement yeah
yeah
apparently you all were successful in uh convincing him at last
really
no
i have not have you
i am still here
good grief
yeah
impartial
well well the you know on the suggested topic was to talk about whether uh verdicts had to be unanimous decision
and i thought that was that really got me to thinking you know
and i think we really need them to be unanimous
i would hate to think that that you know if if i was charged with something that i was not guilty of that
i got convicted on a you know seven to five
verdict
you know
yeah
they are
i think i think they need to stay that way
yeah
right
it's absolutely up to the jury
i know it
but then if if you give him too much power you know who knows
i mean we got crooked cops i know it
so
no
i did not
is it
i have been trying to
and it's just never there
yes
that that kind of stuff ought to [scar] us to death
i mean
well i know that he goes for the murder right
i just
that would be awful
good grief
that's that's what bothers me
the technicalities and that's where i think the judge maybe ought to have more say
you know because i can not believe that that we can let the people off that we are letting off because you did not tell them this one statement before you took them to jail
you know
yeah
it's just
i am sorry
he was doing it
i mean [entrapment] i am sorry you know
no
there's no blacks and whites it it's shades of [grey] and i think i am like you i think it would be really fascinating
i do not think i would want to be on a highly publicized case though i do not think i would like that at all
i am sure
well you know they had uh a big drug trial in [roanoke] virginia
a couple of years ago
and my my husband was called for
jury duty on that
and he said that they had guards armed you know guards posted everywhere
and he was really glad that he was not called because he said that this would have been too much
so
i would not like that at all
yeah
a real simple [uncomplicated] thing
yeah
we could start out small and work our way up
so
absolutely
the the [nuances] that
yeah
you know it would be split one way or another
and and that ends in a mistrial so they have to [retry] them
they have to bring in a whole new jury
they have to absolutely start over again
so
and i do not know how many times you can have a hung jury
i do not guess they have to go back to trial
i guess you know they could drop the charges
if they did not think they would ever
convict him
no
i did not
uh_huh
oh that's nice
oh my gosh
yeah
we are
yeah
i will bet
he did
oh for
and it was her fault that he killed her
do you have an opinion about civil stuff
right
uh_huh
yes
well i do too
okay
you're you're you're self employed
so you're not
reimbursed by anyone
okay uh
yeah
that's that's an interesting point
i i i'm not an [enthusiast] for juries particularly
and i think especially in in civil cases i doubt doubt the effectiveness of it
i hadn't thought about it from terms of the cost point of view to providing the jury
i think we may be the only major country today that still uses juries in civil trials
i'm pretty sure britain has has uh given up juries in civil cases
well probably judges would be the people you mean the decision about whether to use juries or decision
i i i think it would be better to have them have judges trained professionals deciding such things
uh i don't know there's any way to do that
other than to change the constitution
uh no
i don't i guess different states have different rules on that
i
because of not who initially comes in
but who's selected out of the panel
uh okay
certainly both sides pick criteria by which they want to uh judge jurors and and uh veto lots of those
and i suspect that uh
well see likely get off that way
although it it will vary
uh i mean i guess traditionally juries are supposed to do findings of fact as opposed to findings of law and deciding well that that varies by state and locality as to whether the
uh there's little basis for comparison
what do you think
i agree
i really agree with that
right
right
right
right
yes
i do
i i have been thinking about this you're about the tenth person
they tried to call for this
so i've had lots of time to think
but yes i do because uh otherwise why have a jury
that's the
point
right
right
i think that you get a much fairer deal with a jury
than you do with a judge and that's that's been my experience and and i really
think that i think that judges are very prejudice to just their own idea
and they want to get it over with
uh_huh
right
yeah
i would feel much more confident if that were me
so
well it does
but i think it's because people are trying to be conscientious where a judge it's their job and they just want to speed it along and get it
done
and i don't think they stop and think about that individual as much as a group of people would
yeah
yes
yes
yes
yes
yes
i think that we're having a lot of problems uh with just everything and the whole the whole system is [bugging] me it really is
our jails are over crowded with people like [leona] [helmsley] who is seventy two years old
and with a blank check in front of her
i don't think should go to jail
i think the punishment should fit the crime i think that the jail should be filled with real criminals that are dangerous
and i don't think they should get out on parole in three years
i think they should stay there
they did it
they stay
and people with traffic tickets and that
there's another way to handle that i think
so
well yes
but if you look at it in relation to the amount
i mean it's one million dollars which to you
and i sounds exorbitant but compared to the six hundred million that they paid in five years
that's like one dollar when we owe six hundred
so
they paid six hundred million in taxes over that five year period
yeah
so
if you look at it
they don't say that very much in the newspaper
well possibly you know i don't know
but if they're willing to correct it
i i don't i don't see that she belongs in jail the same as somebody who goes out and kills and walks away
i mean there are worse things that people are getting off with you know that kind of thing
yeah
well
yeah
get them out of society
yeah
i know
i agree with you
agree
and i do too
yeah
it has to be a consistent thing
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i can see that
yeah
yeah
yeah
i heard about um is is there true that there's a
if a lawyer takes a a case to court and it's what do they call it
um frivolous is that is there still a frivolous law
that they can
yeah
but do you think he would fine the lawyer
oh
yeah
i never i didn't realize until recently that there was actually a fine they could pretty interesting though
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh really
oh really
oh
gosh
yeah
oh that would be really tough
yeah
you really do
yeah
i mean because seems like i don't know
i mean there's so many different different types of cases that come in
i mean it seems like just general people i mean who are live in the community and do different things you know you have different opinions kind of
just one judge who sits there and listens to cases all the time would would get it start thinking a certain way and go go nuts
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
that is hard to say
uh_huh
oh i had never thought of that
really
yeah
yeah
yeah
it does
so
yeah
all right
well [groovy] it's been cool talking to you
see you around
okay  
do you have any uh ideas on universal health insurance  
do you have any strong opinions  
you do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i feel like there should be some kind of coverage made  
but i i'm really leery of a kind of a government administrative health insurance or medical plan because i just feel like everything that the government takes over is just going to be run much poorly  
and it is going to be about six times more expensive  
uh_huh  
right  
and they have that in england too  
but i think that it's a pretty poor  
they get a lot lower quality care than we do  
now i know some people don't agree with me  
but uh i know you have to wait real long time to get for certain surgeries that aren't emergency  
and you don't have the kind of choices that we have here  
and uh i've worked a lot in doctor's offices and hospitals  
and i really don't want to give up having those choices  
i think  
i mean there is a night and day difference between good doctors and bad doctors and good hospitals and bad hospitals  
and in england at least at the time when i was familiar with it about ten years ago they just told you what day you had to show up and where you had to show up and who your doctor was going to be  
no  
no  
i mean that  
yeah  
it's getting worse  
isn't it  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
that's exactly the problem  
there's just so many such variation  
and it's  
but see i guess what they had in england and i guess in canada is socialized medicine  
so maybe that's like the extreme of it  
do you think  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
really want to  
right  
right  
or that  
yeah  
exactly  
or people also get the feeling that well jeez you know you don't have to worry about you have a lot of job security there  
and it's more of uh seniority i would imagine kind of thing instead of having a skill or or whatever to advance  
so you don't necessarily get the kind of quality control or the kind of  
i don't know  
i think we have to have something  
we really do  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i i don't know  
i  
having worked in doctor's offices and stuff i see it from a [physician's] point of view  
and i   i think the problem with the [skyrocketing] cost right now is the insurance companies because   i don't see doctors getting real rich  
and i think hospitals do make money but not nearly as much as insurance companies  
i think they are really making a killing and nobody is talking about it  
nobody's  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
their mistakes are made  
right  
sure  
yeah  
so yeah  
i think that's the legal part of it coming into it to  
i wonder if we should have a limit on how much people can sue for  
or or i don't know because then that's where the insurance company  
then if people weren't having to spend these huge amounts of money on getting insurance coverage   you know  
yeah  
are you  
okay  
at where  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
i  
what  
i'm in texas  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh great  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh no  
that that that can't be legal  
oh my gosh  
how can they how can they make you pay for insurance coverage  
how how does it keep the cost down  
oh so they just use the money for something else besides your insurance policy  
okay   okay  
so you're subsidizing the hospital  
uh_huh  
oh good  
you are you are  
i know  
and see that's the thing  
that is the thing  
now that i'm in my thirties now and i have three kids  
and i mean i'm very liberal  
i'm extremely liberal  
and uh i  
but now i just in the last couple of years i have gotten to the point where i am saying i just cannot afford to pay anymore   to help people out  
i i want to keep helping people out  
but i need for the government or the agencies to find a way to do it on the amount of money you know that i can afford  
i just can't afford anymore  
it's it's just outrageously  
it's just starting to get me angry  
and for the first time in my life i am starting to feel like i i  
well i guess it has to do with a lot of the stuff that i find out i am paying for now   you know  
i mean if i can't afford to have some kind of optional operation for myself  
because our our medical coverage has gotten increasingly worse over let's see the past five years to the point now where even if we need surgery our insurance only covers eighty percent of it  
and right  
and so no matter what happens to me if i get in a car accident this afternoon i have no way of you know no way of being able to afford the outrageous medical costs   because my insurance is now only eighty percent of whatever it's going to be  
and uh so on top of that uh then what if i what if we decide to have universal health insurance  
i'm subsidizing  
and what if they are lucky enough to get into a doctor and a program that's going to say okay well you really need to have those [varicose] [veins] fixed or your teeth fixed or something like that  
and i am paying for it  
you know stuff like that has happened with education and with other things that you hear about  
and it's just wait a minute  
you know my kids aren't getting that  
how come their their kids are getting that  
and i know it's only in a few cases  
and i don't want them to uh to cut funding for welfare programs or anything  
i don't want them to do that because i know a lot of people they live right on the edge  
and they need that  
but but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well yeah  
that's  
and it's uh it's funny because a couple of years ago i heard a quote from [winston] churchill  
let's see if i can remember it  
anybody who's not a liberal in his twenties has no heart  
and a person who is not a conservative in his fifties has no brain  
it was something like that  
yeah  
and i don't know  
i guess that's what's happening to me  
but i i think it's just starting uh  
it's it's  
i i don't know maybe other people  
i  
do you think it's a sign of the times that people are starting to say all right we really mean it no more taxes  
or maybe this is just my own personal  
yeah  
no  
no income tax  
yeah  
oh  
oh  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
but i tell you uh we have incredible property taxes down here  
yeah  
and we don't have the services either that other states have  
yeah  
i think it's probably a good ideal  
uh i think given uh given well given that there are so many people who don't have health insurance it's probably a real smart thing   at least to have some basic coverage for everyone  
i mean you hear these horror stories of people homeless people going to the hospital and   and being thrown out because they have no insurance   and having to go to someplace else  
you know it would be nice if no matter where you are or who you are what happened you know what happened to you you just go to the hospital and they say okay just just take him  
and we will worry about who he is later  
so   that would be a nice thing  
yeah  
i know that that's certainly true  
but i wonder about like like in canada  
in canada where everybody uh everybody automatically has insurance in canada  
yeah  
that's true  
that's that's true  
that's true  
that's true  
oh you  
so didn't get any choices at all  
oh that's a problem  
yeah  
because i know i know even among  
even now the way we have it now there are still  
yeah  
i mean like we have   an h m o allows us to pick our own physicians  
i mean i picked a primary care physician and just didn't like him you know  
i had to switch because i just thought he was a [quack]  
so   yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that is the extreme  
and what that what that i think that tends to do though is i think that tends to  
it probably has two a good and a bad side   for young people wanting to become doctors which again a lot of people who are motivated because the money isn't i guess as much   for doctors anymore  
so you wind you wind up getting the people who really want to be doctors being doctors  
but then again you know you don't get those people who would be good   and are real smart and decided hey i want to make a lot of money  
so i will go into medicine  
you don't get those  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
it would be nice to see something where at least  
i mean even something that says you know look free major medical for all you know everyone  
and then   beyond that you could work out on your own if you want  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh right  
no  
yeah  
they are the ones who make  
i mean they are the ones  
they have you know the although  
i mean it's  
the unfortunate part of that is that the people i think tend to forget that doctors are humans as well  
so that  
insurance companies have to charge a substantial amount for certain people or certain types of of doctors given that you know someone decides to have a malpractice suit against them well they could take you know it could be millions i mean unfortunately  
and if the doctor whether it was you know  
i mean i'm sure there are those cases where where the doctor is wrong or malicious or something  
but you know their you know   mistakes you know  
everybody makes mistakes unfortunately  
it shouldn't be a billion dollar you know industry  
it should be   i made a mistake  
and this is this is their compensation  
not  
yeah  
that is a big problem  
that would be nice  
uh_huh  
it would be a lot better  
yeah  
i mean i'm sort of in a in a government run medicine program  
sort of  
i'm in a  
well well i'm a graduate student  
and uh  
at university of rochester   in rochester new york  
i'll bet you are in texas  
i was going to bet that  
okay  
uh yeah  
and as it as it turns out my wife has pretty decent coverage through her company   and can get me coverage as well   but i yeah which is great  
and because the university the university offers me two plans  
they offer what they call the mandatory version   which is basically major medical  
and they offer the portion which is   which is you know sort of everything else you need sort of your your your basic care   beyond major medical and stuff  
and they don't  
and even though my my wife's insurance covers me   for everything   i still have to pay them a hundred and some odd dollars a semester  
and that's for the mandatory portion of the insurance  
yeah  
i'm not actually sure if it is or not  
but people sort of keep fighting it  
and i'm  
and i mean to keep fighting it  
but you know it's just one of these things where i just don't want to spend my time  
well the reason  
their rational is is they make everyone pay for it so that it it keeps the cost of university health services down  
and everyone can use it  
you know it  
because everyone is now forced to pay for this  
and there is like an  
well no  
well yeah  
well what they use it  
no  
what they use it for is is is university health services  
we have a   we have a hospital here and a [subportion] of the hospital  
right  
obviously we're paying for the welfare state  
now as it turns out as it turns out uh my wife and i have chosen to use the university as   health services as our primary care facility  
we can do that  
so in in  
but in effect i'm paying twice for one service  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's that's certainly true  
right  
which is ridiculous  
yeah  
everybody else  
right  
yeah  
exactly  
i don't i don't uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's it's one of the strange  
i think it's strange that as you get older  
i think i think the tendency is that as people get older   and gain i don't want i don't want to say more responsibility but you know things like homes and kids   and so forth   they tend to lose that [liberalism] they had when they were younger  
that's probably very true  
no  
i think i think people are starting to really mean it  
i mean everywhere you you look you are getting something new  
i mean you start off   you know especially uh  
you guys i believe in texas you don't have state tax do you  
right  
we have we have federal income tax   state income tax local income tax  
we have state tax on gasoline   uh you know because our our  
so on top of the federal tax on gasoline   we have state tax on gasoline  
so we are just  
oh that could be uh making up for the difference  
uh i guess my feelings are that uh we almost have a universal health care system uh to a great degree except that now i read where we've left out about thirty four million people  
and uh i don't know exactly how we're going to cover many of these people because i'm sure that some of them don't uh don't have the wherewithal to do it themselves  
so uh i i have a feeling since i have just about as good a health care coverage that anybody can get that this uh then becomes an obligation of the government  
because it's going to become an obligation of either state local or federal government anyway  
well it seems to me that that i'm paying anyway because when i go or my insurance carrier anyway when i pay something the bills seem inordinately high  
and the reason that they're inordinately high is because that has   to cover the costs for the indigent people who apparently   don't have the money or the wherewithal to do that  
it would seem to spread it out a little better if the employers who uh employ these people and pay them uh you know [subminimum] wages or whatever   were asked to share their fair burden of this too just as my employer is  
and myself i guess  
well   well who who else is going to do this then  
i mean it's worked successfully in europe  
i've heard all these stories about  
i travel extensively and spend uh maybe half a year in europe every year  
and i find that the health care programs there uh are administered with uh at least people i talk to with uh a great deal of integrity  
and uh people don't seem to be reluctant to use them to any degree  
as a matter of fact if i'm injured or have an emergency when i'm say in germany or france uh that i'm automatically taken care of  
i mean i don't even have to pay  

well i   uh uh i know it  
i have a solution you see  
my solution  
even though i'm rapidly approaching the uh the age when i'll qualify for medicare and medicaid i i  
my mother and father both uh uh  
well my father's not living but my mother is  
and they are um of an advanced years  
and when i see the money that's poured down the down the drain on medicare and medicaid  
i mean the   absolute uncontrollable situation that we find ourselves in  
and the extraordinary amounts  
i know that  
because those people vote  
i mean they're the ones who get out and vote  
that's what's robbing a poor mother of the prenatal care  
the young people aren't getting the proper care that they need and nutrition i think  
and we're spending on these useless many times useless and inordinately complex unnecessary tests in hospitals for older people  
that's right  
i mean it does   seem like we're  
now i noticed just the other day in the paper that that medicare will be based payments will be based not uh just on cost but on cost effectiveness  
so i  
well i don't know uh  
we'll see how that goes  
i think that was just a regulation that was up for comment  
but we'll see what happens  
well listen uh i think i've i've exhausted my uh self on  
at least i've blown off steam of the way i feel about it  
okay  
see you next time  
bye  
oh  
yeah  
because when people can't pay they end up going to [clinics] or you know to public hospitals and that kind of thing  
and you know  
oh definitely  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that sounds like a good idea  
my only concern is what happens when you turn things over to the government  
i don't know  
do they wind up with more red tape and more problems then  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
well i think part of the the tremendous benefit of that is that there's so many people who wait now because they don't have the money until you know they have no preventative measures  
people um you know just go on and on and on  
i mean so many people don't even get prenatal care  
or and it just extends with if it what would be a minor problem to deal with if they had a help available early on  
becomes just this horrendous you know burden on the taxpayers  
they're saying now that one out of every ten child born in public hospitals is addicted to crack  
well you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh it's unbelievable how much you go through  
when i just had a problem with my neck and they ended up doing a seven hundred dollar cat scan and i mean a [chiropractor] got it in one time  
it was just strange  
oh well that should help  
yeah  
oh i see  
oh gosh  
okay  
well  
okay  
thank you  
bye bye  
you want to go first  
yeah  
like the if should the government make it universal or something like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
you you would be in favor of it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do they have options on who they uh you know like choices of doctors and that type of thing  
do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's the way with me  
i don't know a whole lot about it  
i  
that's the only concern i would have because i think personalities plus the type of doctor it is has a lot to do with the care  
and if you didn't have any choice   on you know in who you go to  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or to change even like if you didn't approve or didn't think you were getting good service  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there that's one of my main concerns  
i i have a friend that has their boy has been sick for several months  
and they just have found out what's the trouble  
and they have gone through uh one two three four five doctors and then a team of doctors  
and they finally determined what the problem was  
it took that long  
and that that something like that you know i thought if you couldn't change or look elsewhere you know for help if you  
i don't know how that program works you know if you can do that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i guess that's that's primarily was one of my thoughts you know because you know how government is  
uh_huh  
for them to have a choice on   if they're in favor of it or not  
it it would  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know where my son works they have uh an option right now where they can have their own physician  
or they can choose one that their company has elected  
and that costs them less if they take the doctor that uh that the company has selected  
he  
well only to the point that he could go to somebody at his own expense  
otherwise he you know he has to take the physician that uh and the hospital that the company has chosen as their you know the one they have taken  
and there again i mean he's gotten good service  
he took the less expensive one of course  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh cause that's the first i've really known anybody that you know works for somebody that they had that option you know to make the choice   of what kind of insurance policy they what kind of hospitalization they wanted to take  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh if you have your health you're wealthy  
you really are  
yeah  
yeah  
uh we live in a rural area up here  
uh are you familiar with any of the area that all  
where  
oh well that's that's a ways away  
but we live in clarion county  
uh we have a cousin that lives in philadelphia  
and uh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
that's a nice state  
that's a real nice state  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so i suppose really our situation here is even different that it is in you know like more populated areas   as far as uh   the doctors that are available  
of course we have good physicians here too  
we've been pretty fortunate  
we've had some of the most outstanding doctors in our area for some of the different fields  
so uh we've been pretty fortunate  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
it sure is  
i still wish they could do more with the cancer situation though  
they uh they just don't seem to be  
i know they're making progress but not like that i would like to see yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but a a lot of them don't do these things even  
and it doesn't seem to matter  
so uh it  
well they say second hand smoke and that is worse than smoking  
so so what do you do you know  
yeah  
yeah  
take their rights away from them they say  
i never had the desire  
so i haven't ever had that problem as far as that goes  
so i can't take any credit for not smoking even  
so  
it's hard to break  
it's a hard one to quit  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
very nice talking to you too  
and you have a good day  
right  
okay  
bye bye  
well i believe that the um the voice that uh [initialized] this call asked about uh if we thought that it should be something that should be put into action  
yes  
i i i i would be committed to that  
oh definitely  
yes  
i know that there are many countries that uh are very successful with the operation of the government uh providing that plan  
um i'm not sure how their program is run  
but i know it has been successful  
and i would really have to uh read the history of probably i uh the country that has [fared] very well with it  
and i'd like to see the uh the data on that  
well i  
yes  
i think that's primary is if you have a good relationship   with your doctor that you can feel free to discuss anything with him   and uh   oh absolutely that the choice would be yours   yes if you felt that you weren't being um given the proper guidelines   for your health that you should be able to make um a choice there  
yes  
and the expense of that yes  
well i would i would think that they would have that as part part of the benefit   to the health care program that you would indeed have a choice that you could select that individual   yourself  
and i'm sure that they would have a history of each doctor and hopefully that they would have their um [accreditations] there too  
yes um  
but those guidelines have to be set up  
and i think they should be voted on by the public  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
and of course they would give a full plan of what their intentions would be  
and um i think that's primary uh   for the health if they were going to have a universal health care plan   that uh they would have all the facts and the figures and uh what it would mean to each individual family   or an individual perhaps being single  
um i'm not sure what else that uh we could address uh on health care uh other than the fact i think uh the eyes and the ears and the uh whole self should be uh uh included in all of that  
uh dental eye care and uh our body   as a whole should be included in that   because there are so many avenues that needs to be um [undertaken] in a program like that  
um i wouldn't want to have to go for a private doctor for anything and not be covered by the program  
uh_huh  
and does he have an option   uh if he doesn't care for the personality  
oh i see  
well if he's pleased with it i guess that's uh the bottom line  
so but i i would be afraid of what would happen if you had a personality conflict or something  
yeah  
cause there's always that opposite story there  
uh_huh  
it's quite different from when i was uh under doctor's care that's for sure  
i'm i'm very thankful that i'm not under any doctor's care  
that's right  
yes  
uh_huh  
what part of uh pennsylvania do you live in  
well i have a brother that lives there  
uh near uh philadelphia  
okay  
are you a native [pennsylvanian]  
okay  
so i'm a former [michiganian]  
so  
yes it is  
it's very lovely  
it's a very lovely state  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm sure it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that has broadened so much also  
that is the fields that you know are opening up are um just phenomenal  
they  
i mean look at the aids uh case   you know i mean they that's a whole new field   in itself  
it's just it's an auto immune [deficiency]  
but it sure is a [dilly] one  
yes  
i do too  
to [eradicate] it entirely yeah  
well there's guidelines that people have to follow  
and if they're determined to uh have their cigarettes and the other   uh [carcinogenic] causing items   then how do you teach them  
i guess you  
that's true too  
it's  
i i i really believe our environment have a lot to do with it  
yeah  
well you just have to ban the smoking to their   to their little room that they want to  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it's a bad habit that's  
yes  
it's  
they say that it is  
well it was nice talking with you  
and well you do the same  
and uh we'll be i guess talking around the country  
okay  
you  
bye bye  
uh national health insurance i think is a problem [inasmuch] as the quality of health care that people would receive  
yeah  
because uh the articles that i've read regarding national health service in canada and england has indicated that uh  
what  
stay stay in line for uh four hours to get an [aspirin] from a doctor  
um i see  
yeah  
well i i think that uh again having gone through a period when i was out of work and had to buy health insurance on my own   if you don't have a company supporting you in the uh picking up the major portion of your health insurance   the cost is almost prohibitive  
yeah  
uh we're currently where i'm working now under blue cross  
i don't know what the total cost of the program is  
but for dependent coverage i'm paying a hundred and seventy dollars a a month or something like that  
so i assume that probably the total cost is probably   three fifty to four hundred  
they're probably picking up about half of it  
and that's a pretty good policy  
but if you had something like one of these uh   health maintenance programs  
or one of whatever the type name is   h m o uh where the uh where you go to the doctor and it only costs you ten dollars and the insurance picks up the rest   if you tried to buy something like that i'm it would probably be five or six hundred dollars a month for just the cost of something  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
oh goodness  
delivery room and everything  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
as to a company's benefit   to have a program like that because it keeps their employees healthy and on the job  
because they don't have to worry about going in and and paying   uh seventy five dollars to have the doctor look at you for ten minutes  
that's a  
yeah  
but here again the the doctor's practices in hospitals   have become fairly [sizable] businesses under themselves now  
uh you take a hospital uh the physical plant itself  
you have to pay your share of the operating of that eight story building uh when the rooms are empty  
so they spread the costs out over uh all the patient costs  
and uh that's how you come up with [aspirin] that costs four dollars apiece and things like that   the horror stories that you hear about people going into the hospital for a week and uh it being   a four thousand dollar bill  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
my daughter and son in law had a baby   here about uh what  
he'll be three in august  
and uh their insurance plan that they're under encourages you to shorten your stay in the hospital  
and like she went in  
she had the baby  
and she was out in two days time  
and it was treated almost like it was an [outpatient] visit to the hospital  
the the deductibles didn't apply  
and so that's one way one way the insurance companies are trying to hold costs down is by uh  
okay  
if you'll shorten your stay then we will uh waive the deductible  
right  
right  
yeah  
i'm i'm sort of mixed on this  
i think that the the answer may lie in uh not in so much a uh national kind of medical thing that like england has but more of a um national insurance uh sort of [clearinghouse] or whatever  
i think that uh too many uh  
the problem with with right now is that we've got too many different health [insurances] that people have to go through  
and and i think that i think you you mentioned canada  
i think that they have a system where uh they the government deals with the with  
i mean you you go to whoever you want but file through one one particular   uh setup  
and that way they they are able to reduce prices because they've you know it's it's all one one centralized thing  
uh_huh  
right  
uh i i was listening uh on the radio the other day  
and they were talking that something like this  
i think they were talking about the fact that um the money that could be saved um in administrative costs and so forth nationwide by [consolidating] into sort of a national insurance provider um could uh could  
they could make it provide health insurance to to people who couldn't afford it just by the money they would save  

right  
right  
yeah  
h m o  
yeah  
and they're they're fairly expensive  
i i um i i was on an h m o uh up until last year   and uh through work  
and it was  
i forget how much i paid a month  
but it was much you know is at least twice if not more expensive than the regular health care  
and uh the reason i i quite was because of uh not because i didn't like it  
i i really kind of did  
uh the reason i quite was just because the the doctor a a certain doctor that we enjoyed going to was no longer associated with that h m o  
so we my wife decided she wanted to to stay with that doctor  
so we went to the to the the medical insurance that we have at here at work  
and uh i uh i like the i like the convenience of the h m o in in a certain respect because it uh even though you're  
once you find the doctor that you like it's not a problem  
you know a lot of people complain saying well i don't want to uh have to be told who i need to go to  
but you know if you don't have a doctor anyway normally it doesn't really make much difference   because you can you know if if you find someone you really like  
and then we did find several good doctors  
and um like you say it's uh five dollars an office visit  
and um my wife was in the hospital had our had our daughter  
and i think her total bill was around three hundred dollars   for everything  
uh that included uh you know the doctors the time the the hospital everything   delivery room and everything  
including a private room because there was a little extra that she had to pay  
but that was that was still included in that that cost  
so  
it's really nice because they you know their their attitude is different than than a regular uh insurance uh health insurance uh the in in a h m o you know  
they're trying to prevent a problem by by keeping the cost down at the front end   you know and have you come in you know  
they they charge five dollars  
a   you know pop  
you're more willing to go in and try   to take care of a problem before it grows big  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i i uh i i really liked it  
we both my wife and i both did  
you you don't have to worry about filling out forms uh you know for reimbursement and all or you know getting paid eight percent of of whatever  
you just pay the the five dollars right then  
and then you're done with it  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well they and you know they're also  

they're taking up the cost of people who can't pay  
you know they they get a lot of uh a lot of uh people who are just have to be there and can't afford it  
and so they they know they're not going to get   you know get money from them  
so they   have to absorb it somewhere else  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
right  
right  
our our insurance is uh is doing something similar where they're also going to  
okay  
the topic of the conversation is national health insurance and the pros and cons and do i do we think that the government should finance it  
what is your opinion  
you say yes  
i have heard someone else uh say that uh the canadian health insurance is absolutely excellent  
and one of the ways that they're financing it is they have an exorbitant tax on their cigarettes  
this is   evidently this is one of the ways that they're paying for the program plus discouraging the people to quit smoking so they don't have to pay out as many uh benefits on like lung cancer and things like this  
yeah  
we  
oh my word lynn  
that's horrible  
well we're fortunate in that we so far knock on wood most of us have been real healthy  
so we don't have a lot of medical bills  
yeah  
but what worries me is the fact that i don't like the government telling me who i can see and who i can't see  
uh_huh  
are they  
well i know that james had it  
i beg your pardon  
yeah  
yeah  
i know that when james was with continental steel mccullum was part of that  
and and that's good  
but i also heard for instance like uh my friend's daughter was on it through texas instruments  
and she was on that kaiser [permanente]  
and they had screwed up her appointment  
and when she went in she had to take whichever doctor was available  
and they  
she would have had to wait like two months to get the doctor she wanted  
but then again i guess you can even do that in mccullum  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's true  
and that still goes on  
uh_huh  
right  
well you know it uh  
how do you think we're going to pay for it  
more and more taxes  
i know that it's getting to the point that the insurance doesn't pay that much on [catastrophic] illnesses  
they don't pay anything on uh [implants]   or [transplants]  
and you know people are needing these  
and the average person can't afford you know a heart or a [kidney]   on just their own  
uh_huh  
good grief  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
very true  
well i know they have the medicaid you know for those that have trouble  
and i know that like we have the uh prescription cards which  
that's helped [bunches]  
and wonder if the insurance companies are fighting the national health  
or wonder if they're wanting it  
that they are wanting  
i say yes  
yes  
mother lives in florida  
and there are in her subdivision there are fifty percent canadians who won't give up their canadian citizenship because of the health insurance  
it's wonderful  
oh  
well  
well even if that's  
so you know really when you look at it they have full coverage  
they have h m o which you know after you get used to it it's not too bad  
and uh everything is covered  
and we have so many people in the united states that we spend  
well in my family alone we spent four thousand dollars in july on medical bills  
insurance didn't cover a penny  
yeah  
yes  
it is horrible  
yeah  
but  
uh if you're healthy it's fine  
but i had two kids in the hospital in july  
yeah  
but you know richardson school district has the h m o  
and ninety percent of the doctors you would choose are on that list  
yeah  
mccullum is  
mccullum is  
uh_huh  
well but that's   that's a screw up in an appointment you know  
i'm going back to the days when i was pregnant  
and i had two doctors  
and one was my favorite personality wise  
but when i delivered [ronnie] he was not on call  
the other guy delivered him  
you know and that  
and you know if um i go to townsend  
he's got a new partner  
i go to both of them now  
you know i have no choice   because when i want to go   if doctor [howe] or whatever his name is is on duty i go to him  
well no  
we need to cut some of our [spendings] cut some of the fat off the top and [whittle] it down to the rest of us  
no  
no  
yeah  
but you known [ronnie] in austin went to a program and went to a social worker  
and at the same token there is something  
because he can get his pills for two dollars when i'm paying fifteen on my medical insurance  
and he can get free medical care but he has to go to the city hospital instead of seeing david   and so again you know  
we went through it [ronnie's] home tonight  
and we talked about it and said you know is it worth it  
yeah  
you know he pays forty five dollars a month for his prescriptions where he could pay six dollars  
so there   are programs you know if you get on medicare or medicaid or one of those  
yeah  
that's what i read  
okay  
as far as uh universal health care   um i guess i'm all for it  
i think it's time that we start looking at uh getting into that  
um health cost has continued to rise  
and i think uh there's people that to me it's the fundamental uh   life of a person  
uh it doesn't matter if you have money or no or all the money in the world um  
you would  
everybody should be able to have surgeries that will save their lives or things that will make their life more comfortable verses than just the rich people that can afford to pay or to work for corporations that have wonderful health benefits  
um i think if uh they looked at it as a way of business helping out financially for universal health care and uh individuals um helping out in some sort of way whether it be taxes or some how  
but uh the expenses right now for health care um are just unreal  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
and your constantly  
exactly  
yeah  
the only  
i i know that um uh i know a little bit about the uh european uh universal health care  
and there's some pros and cons  
one of the things of course is everybody gets health care  
but uh sometimes health care uh when you get into a universal system [lacks] in uh what would be considered uh  
how can i say it  
um over like in poland uh where my father in law lived for years there their health care system is um  
because no financial gains are available for doctors  
uh they may just go into being a doctor just clearly just to be a doctor for the full reason  
but most people that go in to being a physician here in the u s do it for financial gain  
they say well jeez if i get into this area of [dermatology] i don't have to do this  
i can do this  
and i can you know  
yeah  
or plastic surgery  
or uh if i become a uh heart specialist i'm going to make this kind of money uh  
and there's you know financial gains toward that  
and in a universal system i don't think there is a financial gain for the doctors  
the quality   i think   goes down uh_huh   when you have a universal system  
um the only way they could do that is by having a real good quality check um and also offering some kind of  
because i think uh all physicians well anybody um likes the ability to kind of uh get themselves financially uh [situated]  
uh i guess that's the whole u s concept   is to come here and  
yeah  
and i don't know if you can have that with a universal system  
maybe you know there's a way of working that out  
but i know that in poland in particular the doctors just go to do their job and that's it  
that's what they look at it as  
there's no uh  
and that's sad because if that's the case if doctors aren't going in to be doctors to help people then maybe they shouldn't be in that area anyway  
but   that might be one way of weeding out those that are greedy for the money and those that really want to help [mankind]  
so  
but i i think we have to head toward that way  
uh_huh  
i'm worried when i get older  
you know and uh let's say for instance you uh get fired or not fired but maybe laid off from your job  
you no longer have insurance  
i mean and you're sixty some or   fifty some years old you try try to find insurance  
i mean you're [uninsurable]   unless you want to pay five hundred six hundred dollars a month  
and i know people that are paying two hundred three hundred dollars a month for insurance  
and how they can do it i have no idea  
um i know working for small corporations  
and health insurance um myself um it would cost for a family  
and this was back three four years ago to put my entire family up  
and this was working for like a med center uh health plan  
um it was like eighty dollars out of my paycheck  
so  
see  
yeah  
well we do the same  
i mean it's  
i think uh people are changing their viewpoints of you know  
it's getting harder and harder to survive  
and uh   and that's why uh if they don't go to a universal system something is going to happen  
we're going to have uh a larger amount of people dying  
uh_huh  
you should still be  
well they really are even for even when you're not talking about surgery  
if you're just talking about basic care  
we've   we've got four children  
and you know   in the past month   they it just they pass things from one to one  
and it just can devastate   your budget you know  
um   yeah  
can still make big bucks  
do you think that the quality um   it would   would be as high  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
more motivation  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
i uh  
well we're going to have to do something because there's just too many people in the country that are uninsured  
and and you know you cannot  
i mean it's just  
oh sure  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
well our ours is three hundred for our family  
and i mean we that is we pay that instead of a car payment   you know  
i mean i'm driving a piece of junk you know  
right  
right  
yeah  
in in the light of what has been happening lately with the doctors that i know and lawyers and whatnot i think national health insurance is a way to throw a lot of money at a very small problem  
why  
well if you took half the money that they would spend in the state of texas for health insurance and gave it to qualified students to so they could become doctors the problem would go away  
i think the problem is that the doctor doctors have [conspired] to limit the number of doctors and that the lawyers have [conspired] to make sure that if you are a doctor you are going to pay high premiums on your uh i mean on your liability  
oh  
uh_huh  
and you think there are plenty of doctors  
uh_huh  
it's astronomical  
no  
people don't sue  
lawyers sue  
if you put a ten thousand dollar cap on the amount of money that a lawyer could make from a law suit against a doctor   they wouldn't sue a one of them   you know  
well sure  
but you know when you think about [reasonableness] now i believe that a law suit should have some foundation in the tort theory  
you know what tort theory is  
well a tort is when you do something wrong  
well it uh  
an o b g y n doctor cannot control the [fetus] in the [womb] a hundred percent  
if the baby is born dead well that happens  
if if they have complications and  
well i know i mean there are guys that are real [slobs]  
but you know there are also people out there that are really doing their job  
and the people that are really doing their job are paying for everybody else   you know  
just to prevent a   a law suit  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
see i believe   that there there is a system already in place for health care  
you know they have indigent health care  
you show up at parkland bleeding  
and they'll fix you   you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that if you just wrote the lawyers out of the [equation]   the problem would pretty much evaporate  
yeah  
well i i happen to know a few  
and i even claim one as a friend  
he's a divorce attorney  
but  
i think he'll go [nameless] for the for the purposes of this conversation  
but i also know an uh o b g y n who has stopped practicing  
uh he just said  
yeah  
i mean he's not going to deliver any more babies   ever  
his malpractice was five hundred thousand dollars a year  
and you know he said i had to he had to gross two million to take home as much as his malpractice  
yeah  
this   this guy is catholic   yeah  
i mean you know   yeah  
i know you can be human and catholic  
but you're not likely to find somebody who is going to you know have a less conscientious effort  
i mean  
well you know who is getting rich  
insurance companies  
you know if you were able to write a malpractice insurance that would [negate] any financial obligation on the part of the doctor over and above the insurance  
say say you have malpractice insurance and a kid dies or is [malformed]  
or  
do you  
why  
you think the problem is not enough doctors  
gosh  
i really have a different point of view on this   well because i'm a nurse   for one thing  
oh yeah  
i don't think there is a shortage of doctors  
and i do know that o b which is my field   the doctors' health the doctors' malpractice insurance is over two hundred thousand dollars a year   that deliver babies  
now they can't doing anything about that  
i don't think they're in a conspiracy  
i think it's our fault because we as people just sue them  
people are very sue sue conscious  
yeah  
well that's probably true too  
but people are very conscious of how much money they can get real fast these days  
and so  
no  
right  
that's right  
well  
it depends  
well that's true  
they are   because doctors are performing many more tests  
many of them are unnecessary  
they are doing so many c sections   just to   prevent  
because they have all these monitors now  
and if anything looks even a little bit funny   their only safety precaution is to go in and get that baby  
and   so it's costing more all around in health insurance   for tests for surgery for longer hospital stay  
so it's terrible  
uh_huh  
you'll get it  
that's true  
in fact you'll get it at presbyterian if you show up there too  
and we have that happen  
we have patients that go through parkland   through the clinic  
and at the last minute they come to us  
well   uh we can't turn them away  
so  
yeah  
i'm for that  
i've been through a two year divorce where the only one that came out ahead was my lawyer  
so   i'd like to wipe them all out  
he better not be mine  
yeah  
some they do  
they stop their o b at least  
right  
right  
that's incredible  
yeah  
and most of them are very [sincere]  
most of them do the   best they can  
they are human  
occasionally   something will go wrong  
well you can be human and catholic  
yeah  
no  
most of them do  
i really believe that  
from dealing with doctors dealing with lawyers there is no doubt in my mind who is more conscientious  
yeah  
they are  
okay  
what do you think about uh the self insurance business  
uh_huh  
well i uh i understand what you're saying  
and there's probably some truth to that  
i think that uh generally i don't welcome added government responsibilities  
however when a anybody can't police their own profession it eventually leads to that  
and i think the costs and the uh the way the medical profession has every year  
i being in my own business uh  
in the last six years every year there's been at least minimum twenty five percent increase in health insurance costs  
and i think eventually the number of people that can afford health insurance as as it is now getting squeezed and squeezed tighter  
uh i think they're asking for it  
i i think the medical profession is just just pushing until there's no option but the government take it over  
and uh  
well i i think a lot of it is uh  
i i don't disagree totally with that  
but uh my wife this last summer uh when we were on vacation tore up her knee  
and uh uh it was ligaments uh in her knee   as it turned out uh  
she came back that uh  
we were out at cape hatteras when this happened  
and uh she got home  
and the leading orthopedic man who has handled football people for years and is as good as they come  
i mean he knows knee problems okay  
i mean if anyone does this guy knows it  
well she goes in  
he says well i think this is what it is  
but uh you better go to the hospital and have one of these m r i things  
a thousand dollars for this uh-oh [magnetic] uh [resonance] [imaging] type thing  
and my wife said well do i need that  
and he says well uh you know it it'll help me diagnose this  
i mean uh you know i i suggest you go have this thing  
insurance won't pick this up unless you're in the hospital  
now a   thousand uh uh dollars for thirty five minutes  
i mean doctors routinely send people in for anything  
now for years they didn't have this  
and they solved these problems  
and you know  
i said to her well look you know if you feel you got to go go  
but i i think a thousand dollars  
these guys  
i don't know what it is  
but there's   no doubt they get kickbacks to fill these machines up night and day  
and even if they cost a hundred two hundred five hundred thousand dollars at uh roughly a thousand dollars every half hour uh that's ridiculous  
i i don't care what anyone says  
you know the costs are not  
it's a picture  
it shouldn't cost more than thirty five bucks for something like that you know [reasonableness]  
but they aren't reasonable  
fifty a hundred dollars  
they don't have to pay them back in three months time  
you know  
well i think that should be that that's a another problem  
but that's part of our [legalese] problem  
and that the government eventually will address too just you know because it's out of control  
i i agree with you  
you know uh i was on a jury  
or i i didn't make the jury  
but there was a   deal where a doctor was going to be sued for malpractice on the death on an infant  
like it was three days after it was born  
and he was the one that delivered it  
and they got four attorneys  
one guy out of houston he introduced himself as snake so and so  
and he says well anyone have trouble awarding five million dollars  
and i says yeah  
i got problems with  
i mean you know five million bucks isn't going to bring this kid back you know  
i mean as [sorrowful] as it is uh you know if the doctor is wrong you know he should be pulled from his license  
but five million dollars and away he goes because insurance pays for it you know  
it it doesn't make logical sense to me  
but uh  
uh that's  
well i watched something on t v a couple of months ago by uh general ex uh surgeon general [koop]  
and he talked about [canada's] system  
and it appears to work fine for the normal colds and things like that  
but the expensive stuff heart uh operations and things they have a managed [scarcity]  
and they said that in canada there were as many heart uh trauma centers as there is in san francisco  
so in one city of in america there's as many uh hospitals that are equipped to do uh heart operations as in the entire area of canada  
and that's kind of spooky  
uh_huh  
do you think that it's just uh medical guys  
what about you know you know how expensive new equipment and technology is  
that's where i think most of the cost is coming  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
yeah  
i'll have to agree   with you there  
but there's another problem  
and that's the how litigious our society is  
if the doctor makes a mistake he can be sure that he's going to be hauled into court  
uh_huh  
no  
it doesn't  
hi  
well providing universal health care insurance for the whole country is a pretty big task  
and i uh personally i don't approve of it for two reasons  
number one is that i think that uh the federal government has a problem with the deficit right now  
and if they were to administer this they would uh get us more and more into debt further than we can ever get out ourselves  
number two i think that the quality of health care would go down because the competition would would be dried up  
and really no one would be would only answer to to the government to a big bureaucratic mess  
and uh i've seen what it has done in other countries  
and so i don't think uh i don't think we should head in that direction  
although that we have problems right now  
and i do agree that they exist  
because health care insurance for for everyone is [skyrocketing]  
and it's become to a point where basically no one can afford it anymore  
how do you feel about the whole [ordeal]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
oh yeah  
but what  
what you're   yeah  
so what you're   saying though is instead of having the national government uh government administer giving health insurance to every man woman and child with throughout the whole company you see more of them as regulating the high costs uh that people are forced to pay for it right now  
is that   is that correct  
or do you think that  
well with the with the costs as they are right now do you think that the government uh  
because what that would require is for us to pay uh more taxes  
and the the the people that can afford taxes the middle income and the upper income will be paying more taxes to to pay for health insurance for everyone whereas right now   the the public themselves get health insurance  
and they provide their own health insurance  

you think it might get better huh  
i i kind of disagree  
the reason being is uh we have  
i don't know  
i guess it's my my fear of the national government and also because the bureaucratic   rules that it would take to administer it  
and uh the the health insurance companies right now pretty much regulate and are pretty picky and and uh don't allow cases where they might throw them out of business whereas the federal government if they took over everything they wouldn't care because they'll never go out of business  
people would still have to pay taxes  
the money would have to come from somewhere  
and so you'd  
i i feel that the cost would increase dramatically also  
but in the same sense the the care and the the attitude of the doctors and the professionals within the medical uh field would would [diminish]  
uh  

well what do you think  
uh_huh  
well i agree that it's a big task  
but i think that i think that the u s should move toward some kind of national health care plan at least as a long term kind of goal  
and possibly just starting with more regulation of health insurance and that sort of thing  
but i think that ultimately it would be a good idea to uh  
and not have a completely socialized   medical system   in the country maybe something about halfway between that and what we have now  
it uh just because it seems that uh health insurance costs are sky [rocketing] well as fast as the national deficit   perhaps  
and so that  
and   that's a   that's a vicious cycle of course  
because  
um  
well i uh well i wouldn't exclude the possibility of the government actually [administrating] it ultimately  
i don't think that that would necessarily be such a bad idea  
and uh  
right  
the well as it is now the middle and upper classes are paying more than their share for the health care of the whole country because they're the only people that can afford health insurance  
and so that the other people have no health insurance  
and you know they'll get medical care anyway at least in emergencies  
and   somebody winds up paying for that  
and basically the people paying for it are the people who are buying health insurance  
so i don't see that anything that this situation would get any worse  
that way it might get better  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think  
okay  
that's right  
what would we like to say  
i think  
uh_huh  
i think that's what the subject is about  
in the dallas the morning times  
i guess i did not  
well it's been interesting that we  
yes  
so we live in a society though where everyone if you ask them on polls will uh say that they think that everyone has a right to health care  
and yet i don't think we've ever quite decided who's really supposed to pay for it  
which is why people are talking about  
we ought to just admit it perhaps   and then try and somehow subsidize it in a way that's more fair  
you have health insurance  
through your company  
oh my goodness  
that's must have been hard  
how was your care at parkland  
but yet parkland is not free either  
is it affordable  
so you did have a good experience  
is your wife better i hope  
i'm real sorry  
sure  
it does happen  
but it's very sad  
well   so am i  
actually uh i'm a pediatrician  
and i feel very strongly about uh children and uh developed very strong feelings about this during our [measles] epidemic   last year   where we certainly proved that we're not doing a very good job with [preventive] health care among children and particularly the children who need it most  
so uh i'm really quite active in trying to uh be proactive at least for children's issues  
it's very complex very complicated  
but uh i strongly believe that all children have a right to [immunization] glasses hearing aids basic health benefits  
um  
well and the costs have so much has gone up so much  
the cost of [immunizations] for example uh and just the legal the legal benefits uh  
that has really forced people into doing a lot of things [unnecessarily] et cetera  
so well i don't know  
it's it is interesting  
in case you didn't know texas leads the nation in uninsured children  
thirty one percent of all texas children   do not have insurance and are not on medicaid  
so uh one out of every three children has nothing to reimburse them for their health care  
and i work in the children's parkland system  
and it's pretty overwhelming to me  
but uh it's pretty hard to be indigent and to be dependent upon indigent health care systems in dallas county  
okay  
universal health insurance  
right  
uh   well i think universal health insurance like national health like what canada has   is that what you're you're thinking the subject is about  
did you read uh the article in the paper today about this particular subject  
yeah  
uh the state of washington and the state of minnesota is uh going to begin testing a program a state funded program for citizens of those two states  
and there's fourteen other uh states that are considering it least according to the article in the paper this morning  
i think it's a trend that's that's that's uh probably may go nationwide eventually because i think national health is something that we all need  
it's getting to a point that you have to have it  
you have to have some form of health insurance  
extremely expensive though  
uh_huh  
well that's the thing you know  
uh unfortunately the ones that currently pay and pay the premiums for health insurance are are paying for the people that don't have health insurance  
yeah  
i don't think you uh  
yes  
i do  
uh through my company  
yes  
but i have been in a situation uh recently where i was laid off from a position as a sales manager of a company and was off work for about a year  
and my wife developed cancer  
we didn't have any   insurance  
and it was a   go to parkland type situation  
uh because it was a life threatening situation it was very good  
uh as it as it turned out one of the top uh people or one of the top doctors in the state that is involved in cancer treatment was at parkland  
no  
it's not free  
but uh   it's it's a situation that because i didn't have any insurance and i was on unemployment it was paid by the county  
i had a bad experience as it turned out  
uh i was fortunate that there was parkland  
uh no she passed away  
that's all right  
that happens  
yeah  
but in any event uh i'm in favor of national health   if i had   to vote for it  
oh is that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i when i grew up and  
i grew up in south central kansas uh  
we had  
and my mom worked for the health department the county health department  
and we had x rays every year  
we had a dentist come to our school and uh check our teeth once a year at least  
uh we had all our flu shots taken care of our [measles] [mumps] [rubella] and all that other stuff  
and uh when my children were growing up we didn't have that  
we had to pay for it which i wasn't opposed to paying for it  
i had the money to pay for it  
but i'm sure that there were people that don't  
uh_huh  
did not know that  
uh_huh  
okay lee  
tell me about your ideas on this uh the u s government supporting health insurance and so forth  
well what is this going to do the insurance companies who are supporting this work now and hopefully are doing uh a good job  
yes  
well   this is what's bothering me lee another question  
do you think that there should be some control uh [innovated] such that the doctors are not allowed to charge ridiculously over priced things  
we realize that for the individual person some things are very important  
uh matter of fact in some respects their life might depend on it  
but by the same token some of these charges they make for well minor endeavors shall we say   on the parts the doctors are really out of line  
there should be some control of that  
yes  
and that is what is giving the local uh insurance companies hard times  
that is the one thing we have no control over are these charges that happen when you go to hospitals  
and you get something done  
and they want to charge twenty thousand dollars for it  
yes  
we have had several of them  
my wife and i both have had that recently  
yeah  
see that that bothers me about the government see  
uh my  
do you think that that these insurance things should be covered on a state basis or u s government basis  
well i think it's inevitable that we are going to see national health care  
and the reason is because the market place doesn't seem to have performed adequately uh the invisible hand that which adam smith wrote has uh provided some very good health care and uh much i think inadequate health care uh  
and in some cases the [absence] of health care has resulted from market place forces  
and i think uh it's inevitable  
it is just a matter of uh time and mistakes  
and they're both inevitable  
well it's going to make it tough for them  
and it's going to be a difficult transition  
i don't know uh how it's going to uh play out in terms of the [particulars]  
but i don't think that society will be willing to tolerate the current health care crisis for too long  
our uh physical and mental and spiritual health uh it's really uh very costly  
and uh as a society we are paying a staggering price for this  
my  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
there are   they're abusive of privileges  
right  
well this i think is one of the things that national health care of some sort of evolutionary process over the next ten or twenty or thirty years will address  
because i know this is addressed by uh in canada  
i i have a good friend who is uh a physician practicing in canada  
and they made the transition uh  
and i think that the uh  
for example the [duplication] of [magnetic] [resonance] [imageries]   uh  
i've i've had one myself  
and uh they're wonderful technology  
but cities have three or four more than they need or three or four times the number they need  
so i think that what the market place doesn't do because of the way the system has worked  
and it doesn't allocate resources [oftenly] because there is a tendency uh at least there has been a tendency to drive up the price of medical care primarily because the insurance companies could pass on the bills  
but it's begun to change all of that  
the people paying the bills uh  
employers ultimately have begun to [squawk] because they have seen their health care cost rise two hundred percent in the past ten years  
so i think the evolution will be interesting  
uh hawaii has a system that is apparently working  
and uh it will be interesting to see how how uh much more attention we pay to that  
i do think though that it is inevitable primarily because of the pain uh that people are feeling uh under the circumstances  
uh i believe that it will contribute to something that we would at this point call national health care whether it's [subsidized] by the government and and operated by private [insurers] uh  
i don't know  
i like that idea  
i tend to be one of those people who believes the market place can under varied circumstances with the profit incentive work very very well  
uh i we would be a lot better off if we if we contracted our national defense to a group who rather that operated as a government entity because we would probably have much less waste  
well that's that's the problem with government uh administration of these programs  
and that is one of the things that we as society are going to have to deal with  
government is going to have to change in this regard  
you know that is really a tough one for me to answer  
i don't uh i would like to see the greatest improvement in management  
my my my field is the cognitive sciences  
and i recognize that a lot of these things that are done are done uh as a function of the operating systems in place  
and those operating systems have to change  
and and as we become more efficient in developing machine operating systems we're going to develop more efficient human operating systems  
and so a state or federal application uh could work  
uh it all depends upon the way you structure the environment  
we may have to deal with  
okay well what do you think about the government providing health insurance for everybody  
i think they should  
i know i had a job until let's see a year ago this past december  
i was working for p i e  
and they closed  
and naturally while i was working for them i had health insurance  
but um for me to try to get it now it would cost me like over three hundred dollars a month with the same company that was providing health insurance at at p i e  
right  
it really is  
and i think you know i think uh  
god the government should come up with some kind of a health plan or stop these doctors and hospitals from having their prices so high  
well the thing is you know jobs are so hard to find   you know  
and then   what you can get out here in  
anyhow in the valley where i live at now they don't want to pay anything for health insurance at all  
no benefits you know um  
yes  
i mean you get a job now and the wages are really low  
and uh  
yeah  
and they don't want uh   to pay any benefits  
so you just you know pray to god that you don't get sick  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i don't understand   that either  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i know the plan that i had with p i e i could go to any doctor  
and i could go to any drug store and get my prescriptions filled you know  
then i just sent cards in  
and then they would have like a ten dollar deductible per year for my medicine  
and   then they would just send me a check for what was ever over that you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true there  
well  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
but there's just so many people that can't afford to pay anything you know  
that  
people that's on unemployment  
i don't  
yeah  
probably so  
i don't know  
but it is it does seem to be a big problem you know  
i don't know what they're going to come up with  
but um i sure wish they would come up with with something  
and uh like i say  
and and i'm at the age too where the  
i'll be fifty seven in june  
and the people don't want to hire people this age any more  
and i worked for my previous company for twenty six years you know  
so it's kind of hard you know  
so  
yeah  
they'll be calling at my door huh  
but anyhow  
yeah  
now i i do think the government though is going to have to do something uh with this problem because it you know even to go to a little doctor out here just to ask him anything costs you forty bucks   you know just for the visit  
and then he  
then that's not counting what medicine you're going to buy and everything else you know  
and he might tell you well you know now you're going to have to come back in a week  
and   then that's another forty bucks plus whatever else he decides to do to you  
good grief  
that's just almost [unaffordable] isn't it  
well i wonder if they couldn't just provide uh interim health insurance for people who are between jobs like that  
that might be a step in the right direction  
i don't know  
uh_huh  
you mean the uh the employers  
uh_huh  
because everybody's competing for jobs  
well i used to think that universal health insurance was probably the right thing to do  
i i have to think about it some more now because my doctor is uh actually he's canadian  
and uh he told me that there're a lot of uh lot of counts against the canadian system which is basically the one people are talking about for here  
i don't understand the arguments exactly  
he says it [restricts] your choice of doctors and and so forth  
i'm not quite sure i understand why government health insurance would restrict your choice any more than private insurance does  
i mean   we're on a private insurance plan right now uh  
actually i have my own business  
and   and we  
our health insurance is through my wife's employer  
and uh and every year we get another list of what doctor's we can go to and where we can buy our medicine  
and uh it changes every year  
it's always so confusing  
so  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
of course the restricted choice in this case is because only certain doctors agree to accept the uh the limits   of uh compensation  
but of course that is restricted choice  
so   i don't think that the restricted choice really uh has to do with the difference between uh public and private health insurance  
i think it has to do with the the the uh attempt to limit cost doesn't it  
and everybody agrees that we need to limit cost some way  
so   well um   i guess the most sensible thing i've heard about this is they say people are trying  
you you have to recognize that if you're going to have the very best health care possible and uh available on demand whenever and wherever you want it then it's going to be expensive  
and if you want to pay less then you're going to have to settle for a health system that is not quite that uh lavish  
and uh  
yeah  
what happened to [reagan's] safety net anyway  
did he take that back to california with him  
using it for a [trampoline] now  
yeah  
they'll be needing you in a couple of years because they're running out of kids down that the other end  
and  
well if they're smart  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah
so uh what do you feel about the universal health insurance issue
uh_huh
i guess my my initial reaction would be that that i would be for it mainly from the standpoint that that i find uh my health insurance not very effective
and very expensive
and so i you know am probably being very naive i'm hoping that that by by [centralizing] it it might get better and be cheaper
uh_huh
what about things like in sweden isn't isn't that sort of a centralized or in lots of places in europe
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
i you know i guess i can certainly agree with that
but uh you know like i said i feel like being being stung every time
oh i see
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i knew they had one
but i just i guess i assumed it worked
which is is
uh not good
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
maybe i don't know much about h m o
but my impression is maybe maybe some h m o are sort of a low form of [centralization] uh_huh
um
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
is that because of of the cost or or government wants it you think
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's
well but that's interesting because you know it's it's
i don't know that much about it
but my initial response would be more favorable and and perhaps i need to to learn more about it
so that i'm not so naive on it
uh_huh
right
well it was nice talking to you
okay
let's see um have you heard anything in particular about the universal health care uh health insurance program that they're talking about
yeah
yeah
and it'd probably be cheaper to go ahead and pay a percentage of the local plan
yeah
especially for major corporations
yeah
yes
well
oh yeah
they keep uh the a m a you've got to go through the a m a to get accepted into medical school
and they keep a tight [rein] on how many people get in
but uh now dental school
that's
yeah
if they've got a glut on the market of dentists um i i i don't mean to be ugly about it
but uh costs of dental work are pretty high
and if there's something i don't necessarily think it needs to be driven down again
but to keep it from shooting up
of course [dentistry] i don't think has near the problem with like malpractice insurance and such
that's probably the worst thing about health care right now is the unlimited capacity for suing for malpractice and it seems to be the burden of proof that on the doctor that he didn't do something wrong rather than proving that he did
and if he doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did everything just right then suddenly he's got you know two or three years wages down the toilet but uh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
there are physicians getting away with murder
yeah
yeah
yeah
yes
yeah
yeah
uh from what i've seen the better physicians are quick to ask you to go ahead and get a second opinion
well i haven't uh i haven't thought a lot about government universal health care
i've uh uh worked for a you know private company that that provides uh health insurance
although i you know they're like many are are increasingly working on uh cost cutting things so that at this point
i'm not very satisfied with the kind of things that they're doing
they're going to network doctors which doesn't include our uh doctors and uh only certain hospitals
well network hospitals where they will uh same deal as the doctors that they will pay a higher percentage and pay more of the costs with if you use their particular ones that they've negotiated with
but uh uh i don't like it seems to me that we're that that's kind of going towards the the socialized medicine in terms of of not having a choice in where or when you want to have have your health care
uh without the government being involved
it's just a private form of it
but the same kinds of of drawbacks i think to it
uh what about you
what what's your situation as far as okay
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
amazing
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh the company i work for is big enough that they can then they've got clout but i you know feel guilty and resent a little bit
the fact that that for instance people like your father that just leaves them worse off cause the the health care providers end up making up what uh my employer doesn't pay them
uh by charging more for uh other people you know so that that that doesn't seem to me to be a fair thing either
and uh from from what i hear canada has a has a really a a pretty good system in terms of of universal government health uh insurance depending on who you listen to while there may or may not be longer waits than here for some elective surgeries but but uh in terms of the per person health care that they spend it
it's on the order of half as much uh as the as the per capita average in the united states
i think
and and very nearly comparable service
and i you know i'm i'm willing to accept some some limits in terms of
i think it's oregon that just gone through a uh passed a state uh health insurance scheme where they had a commission draw up a very uh you know very detailed and stringent priority list of what uh of of the uh different procedures
and the and their costs and [prioritized] in terms of the of the cost effectiveness
and then just went down the list and said okay here's the [cutoff] point
if if you're below this point then it then the the odds of it doing you any good versus the costs are just not enough to be uh effective and we'll uh we won't pay for those things
alright
um how do you feel about the health insurance problems
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
oh my gosh
what a terrible thing for her to go through
oh
yeah
well no
i i i had never had experiences like you did which sound terrible
to go through
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
oh
right
that doesn't give
any incentive
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i guess so
i just joined an h m o
i just got a new job and i haven't heard
i haven't been
i haven't even
actually paid for it or actually started my coverage yet
but that's what they have is h m o
and
uh_huh
well what they told me at at work
they told me that uh they said that once you get to know the doctors well you get you get your choice of doctors
but there's huge waiting lines for the good ones
and there's no waiting lines
for the bad ones
so you don't really get the good ones even if you choose them
you don't get them for years and years
if at all
so
yeah
how would they decide who get's which doctor
oh i see local
uh_huh
right
it's the same as an h m o
and and because the doctors work for the h m o the people i work with are telling me you know h m o's are great if you're generally healthy
and you just go for the checkup every year or whatever
it's just three dollars
but if you have a problem then it's real hard to get the doctor to refer you to a specialist because they're told
you know not to because they cost the h m o money
um you know i uh i'm a speech pathology major
and i see quite a few advantages to uh having uh some kind of public uh health insurance where a lot of the maybe a lot of people who couldn't afford to pay for insurance would be guaranteed some form of insurance anyway
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
oh sure
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
right
right
exactly
uh_huh
um well i i'm kind of lucky
i have a i'm in graduate school right now
and so i have a job waiting for me when i get out of school
and they're covering my they're paying me uh uh a little bit a month to go to school and then they're they're paying they're also paying my uh giving me insurance full insurance uh
so that makes yeah
yeah
i'm twenty two
yeah
exactly
uh_huh
right
exactly
uh_huh
right
what concerns me especially are the um i remember when i was an undergraduate there were a lot of uh families that i i worked with their kids you know they couldn't afford insurance you know to to pay for uh a lot of the services they receive they they receive some from medicare but um boy they they just they just weren't the you know the funds weren't sufficient to cover everything
that the that the families needed
uh_huh
uh_huh
rather take the risk
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
do you think that do you think that uh government um insurance is the is the answer for all of that
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
exactly
yes
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
the only thing that
well shoot i think they ought to have it
i think they ought to have uh uh you know a health care for everybody
my my only problem is uh uh i don't want to pay for it
well uh they've had some really [startling] discoveries recently as to how much things cost that the uh at a hospital and health care
i think the health care the costs have really gone crazy
well
yeah
wow
really
what uh what what bothers me is uh my wife was in just for a little bit
and she went in to the emergency room they charged they had two needles one was like twenty seven dollars one was twenty eight dollars for a needle
and that stuff
just uh is just completely out of line
yeah
yeah
yeah
now we we were in uh my wife went into the emergency room and she was we were there for about four hours
and it came out to about fifteen hundred dollars
that was just just for the hospital
that wasn't a doctor whoa
i sure hope you had insurance
yeah
so it's like an h m o
wow
yeah
gee
wow
six thousand dollars
wow
for a day
i'd want to stay in there that whole day
uh_huh
yeah
jeez
probably even the electricity
yeah
no
well what uh jeez
i wonder what they would have charged you if you had somebody else's blood
jeez what'd they charge you for that
yeah
how many how many [pints]
okay  
i'll let you start first okay  
well in my case my husband is not a carpenter  
but in fact he's in electronics  
but he knew the only way we'd ever have a new home is if he would build it  
so it took him about two and a half years  
but uh he built us a house  
it's uh  
we have thirty two hundred square feet  
and it's a brick house  
and price wise it was great because he did it all himself you know  
so that way he could we could kind of control   in control it  
and uh we live in kind of a small town  
and i mean it's nothing fancy you know  
it's it's a house  
it's nice  
and it's real pretty  
and we're all comfortable in it  
oh you can because that way your not having to pay the middle men and everybody else  
you know  
but uh of course my husband did everything except  
my brother's a trim carpenter  
and he came in you know and did the inside for us  
and that helped  
and uh  
yes  
and uh we had to hire of course the plumbing and the brick and everything else nothing you know  
he did everything else   we've been in it six years  
no  
we're  
well uh our kids are kind of still small now  
and we had thought before maybe a lot older we don't need such a large house that we'll sell it  
but he will not build a second one himself   because he says age wise he'll never be able to handle that again  
yes  
yes  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but uh like i said otherwise you know the expense  
but you know we could not have one as large as we have if you know we hadn't did it ourselves  
yeah  
i mean it's not an eldorado house or anything like that  
but you know it's ours  
that's right  
that's right  
apparently the [appraisers] likes it because our taxes sure is high  
isn't it  
it really is  
because i i'm always shocked at about you know what they have it appraised at  
i think oh my goodness  
okay  
and it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
we um i'm presently living in a house uh  
first time uh  
we had the house built  
and so this is our our fifth year in it i guess  
and uh um it was a real excitement to uh to go out and select the house and have one made and built  
and like you wanted it we were the fourth to build out of three hundred and forty houses  
and um as we did with probably ninety five percent of the people here in dallas fort worth we bought a fox and jacobs home  
and they're good for about five years or four years  
and after that they start falling apart  
so i would uh not recommend f and j house for my dog to live in uh because they're overpriced uh  
but they're a cheap house  
if you can't afford something good you know  
they're good for that  
and um you can call it a home because it's a place to go home and keep the rain off your head  
but as far as the costs for what your getting uh the longevity of the house is not uh is not worth it  
how about in your case  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's great  
that's great  
that's uh  
i've heard  
i have another gentleman friend of mine who uh who had a house built  
as a matter of fact another guy is building one now  
he's been doing it for three years  
and the city's a little upset with him  
but i understand you save a lot of money off uh by doing that  
and uh  
nothing wrong with that  
uh i'll vouch for that  
um  
that was a big savings  
well that's great  
uh have you been in it long  
oh really  
well have you any plans to uh maybe uh expand or move [onward]  
i see  
well  
first one is always a bear  
we're having a an architect friend of mine design a house for us  
and that can basically be be put on any lot in any state any you know  
so that's kind of   we just got with him and told him what all we wanted  
and he's charging us about a buck a square foot to design it  
and he's certified and registered  
so at least we know we're it's not going to fall in or something if it's built  
but uh i have heard that your approach is is right  
you can actually go out and sub it if even if you don't want to get hands on  
you can even just sub it out to concrete and those kind of things  
and and that's kind of the plan i have  
so   i'm uh  
everyone i talk to uh i file in my little book and do other things with it  
that's great  
that's great  
sure  
i can imagine  
if your happy with it that's all that counts  
that's all  
you only have to uh satisfy yourself and no one else  
oh that's uh that's uh an encouraging sign if you ever want to resell i guess  
well that's great  
well yeah  
i guess that about does it  
nice talking with you too  
bye  
uh what kind of house do you live in  
oh yeah  
with   with a yard and fence  
i'm in an apartment in uh plano  
yeah  
they are if uh  
kind of depends on what you're looking for  
mine's just a one bedroom place  
that's uh  
uh it's hard for me to tell because i haven't rented in uh probably twenty twenty five years  
and uh just  
i'm getting back into apartment life  
and it's  
yeah  
well they vary from place to place  
it's hard to tell you know how well they've been kept up   how old they are  
and these are probably oh one of the nicest that i found  
and uh they're almost five hundred a month for   a one bedroom place  
yeah  
it does considering that you know uh house payments are   not a whole lot more than that  
yeah  
wow that's a lot for a townhouse  
but that's what happens when you get up in this area you know you got all these companies are up here  
and these  
and i guess they know they're going to get it  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
you just   take off your mortgage interest  
and that's about it  
yeah  
i've owned uh several built several  
well and especially around north dallas or at least in plano area they they basically all look alike because fox and jacobs  
isn't it  
i can remember  
i've only been here eight years  
but i can remember coming to work from  
i used to live in wylie  
and i could see downtown dallas  
and now there's this brown haze over it  
and   it's moving north  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it does  
how long have you been in this house  
ten years  
no  
you really don't  
were you said you were out of state for a while was that a smaller town than dallas area  
how was it  
how were the house prices up there  
yeah  
wow  
oh yeah  
well you know a lot of these people that i've talked to that are coming down from uh like what i call the back east   especially from j c penney uh are selling two and three hundred thousand dollar houses up there and buying a hundred and fifty hundred and seventy five thousand dollar houses down here  
and they've wound up getting better houses here than they had there  
so in a way i guess it works both ways  
yeah  
that's a fact  
i guess that's true  
and they don't have to worry about yard upkeep if they don't hardly have any  
that's true  
there's not too many basements in texas  
yeah  
gosh i remember when i was little uh we didn't have a  
i lived grew up in southern oklahoma  
and uh people across the street had a cellar  
and we never did  
and it's just like dallas area it was tornado alley up there  
and every spring mom would drag me up at three o'clock four o'clock in the morning and [pajamas] and teddy bear across the street  
and we'd go into the cellar  
and i   to this day i don't care if i go or not  
you know if it's going to get me it's get me  
yeah  
you ever thought about building a house  
have you ever thought about building a house  
yeah  
that's true  
especially when  
with t i it's like anybody else you never know how long you're going to be here be in one place you know  
yeah  
do you work  
do you work  
well how do you handle  
do you have kids  
so you got  
he's working and working to get this big house to take care of  
how do you manage both of those  
yeah  
you basically   can take care of everything yourself  
yeah  
yeah  
what about home repairs and stuff  
do you have to do all that yourself  
or  
oh you too  
yeah  
oh yeah  
sounds like you've already got the [makings] for being a general contractor  
if you don't wall paper it well together you should probably not build a house together  
yeah  
i built three houses in my life  
and   oh they  
the building process was a lot of fun  
but puts a lot of strain on things  
yeah  
you bet  
oh you bet  
oh yeah  
well to some of them i guess it doesn't matter you know that maybe   they've got enough coming in to take care of it  
are they they  
as far as they're concerned they've come to the promised land  
you know they've got it made  
oh yeah  
because you're uh confined by space  
you know i had a  
i came out of a thirty one hundred square foot two story   house  
and i had room for everything  
in fact i had more room than knew what to do with  
i don't know  
just seems like room stuff always expands to fill available space  
but   uh   yeah  
you can  
you know you you adjust you figure out  
it's not as bad as i thought it was  
it's not as bad as i remembered especially going to college and living in apartments there you know how noisy that can be  
uh there seems to be more a mature crowd in uh apartments at least where i am uh even though you know there's kids all around  
and there's there's traffic  
and there's people running up and down the [sidewalks] and stuff like that  
but still uh  
yeah  
pretty much  
and uh there's never really any  
oh i remember in school  
there's just  
seem like there was a fight or a party or something going on every night  
you don't run into that up here i think i think because there's so many uh professional people if you want to call them that   that go spend all day at work  
and they want to come home  
and they want some quiet  
you see a lot of activity outside people riding bikes playing ball or jogging  
or they're doing this and that  
and they they're trying to to [unwind]  
oh yeah  
it's a hundred and what eighty thousand something like that  
oh yeah  
oh you bet  
and the thing that that gets me is uh you never really catch up you never really finish doing things  
and uh   you're always paying for something  
oh you are constantly  
there's always something going wrong  
uh we live in a one story just like a style home you know the standard texas uh fox and jacobs  
how about you guys  
are you in a apartment or a home  
well they say those are easy to or difficult to find  
how are [rents] doing  
i haven't looked at [rents] in a long time  
uh_huh  
what's a what's a one bedroom  
are you in a um  
well plano  
most most complexes in plano are pretty nice  
so you're probably in a you know  
uh_huh  
ooh   that does get high  
yeah  
i mean  
yeah  
i was going to say   our mortgage is is between depending on  
you know it drops um  
seems like in the last six months we um got lucky  
and we [refinanced]  
and it  
but it was like eight hundred and something  
but it went down to like seven hundred and twenty  
so that's really not  
i have friends that pay about nine hundred dollars for a town house   in  
yeah  
in  
actually they're near plano in north dallas too  
but i couldn't believe it  
but you know  
yeah  
and then i think that um nobody was really buying houses there for a long time there because of just  
i mean we've been in ours for about ten years  
but uh there's no investment in it  
you know   all it allows you to do is itemize   on your   on your taxes   yeah  
that's really about it  
it's uh  
have you ever owned your own home  
so you know what it's like  
yeah  
it's like when you first  
this is our third one  
it's not um  
and it's not that exciting after a while  
yeah  
suburban tract  
yeah  
we uh we lived out of state for a while and came back  
and uh we lived in a smaller city  
and now we say gee dallas really is big and polluted  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's really   it's really sad because they're not doing anything  
well we're getting off the subject i guess  
but just like with housing i mean they're not doing anything about pollution  
they're not doing anything about  
it's going to look like  
have you ever been to houston  
you know um i used to think that dallas was better than houston because their [zoning]   for where you can put a house next to a  
now it looks just like houston to me  
we've been in here ten years  
yeah  
so we've got you know got some investment in it  
but you really don't get anything out of it  
yeah  
smaller  
we were up in pittsburgh pennsylvania  
my home town  
the prices actually a lot better because pittsburgh is about the size i've been trying to think like a louisville or minneapolis that type of size  
and the prices what you get here for about a hundred thousand you could get there for about seventy five eighty  
yeah  
it's really  
and we didn't think it was that clean  
but then after you're gone for a while it looks cleaner you know  
uh  
yeah  
saint louis whatever   really  
i guess it's  
yeah  
but and here i guess it depends on what you want  
you know here i got a lot of people that work for j c penney in marketing  
and a lot of the people that came from that area probably like what you're talking about they had no um they had a lot of property but not a lot of house  
and now they have a lot of house and hardly any [yardage] around it  
but but they love it  
i mean they they they think they're getting  
you know you say sun room to them and you [enclose] and you can sell it  
yeah  
yeah  
and a lot of them i know a couple women that work there  
and they don't miss in public relations  
and they don't miss having a basement to run up and down to you know  
and i said you haven't heard about tornados  
how about those you know  
uh_huh  
yep  
that's exactly uh  
growing  
i grew up in western pennsylvania near pittsburgh  
and uh we used to call the basements actual cellars  
so it's funny to hear that word because i never hear it  
you know it's like the back porch used to be a [stoop] you know  
but uh um the housing is just  
we like the older houses  
and i don't know if we're going to stay here or not depends  
you know i mean  
pardon me  
yeah  
actually when we were up north um  
but some family things changed  
so we ended up come back down here and all that because it helped my husband's work  
but um we really would like to  
but we don't know if we're going to do it unless we stay here you know  
yeah  
it's real tough  
i mean the economy any more  
i mean i think everybody just lives under an umbrella the uncertainty with housing   and everything  
you know it's  
pardon me  
yes  
i do  
no  
we don't  
uh how do we take care of the house  
well i don't have a  
i don't shouldn't say that  
i don't have an ethnic maid  
i don't have  
we have some friends that live near north dallas off of campbell road  
and they have like a four thousand square foot home  
and she's got a uh a live out nanny um  
but any rate i don't have any of that um  
i don't know  
it's really not too difficult with no children and just two people you know  
we have a  
yeah  
we have a dog  
and we're pretty  
i mean we're not [fanatically] neat  
but um we keep things up you know   not like where there is three feet of weeds or anything in the yard   by the time you need to um get around to fertilizing and cutting in the spring  
um no  
we're pretty much um  
we we've been around long enough as a couple that we learned a long time ago not to wall paper together   and things like that  
uh we pretty much hire  
we [subcontract] mostly everything   i mean other than anything that's not a um  
i mean i know how to fix a running toilet  
he does what he needs to  
but mostly if it's something major um you know cleaning out the air conditioning [ducts] or something like that we just hire out to do that  
yeah  
no thanks  
i  
have you ever done that  
i mean you sound like you may have been a couple one time  
and how'd that go  
uh_huh  
getting to agree to things i'm sure  
and i also think that once you get to be um you know certain  
when you get to be thirty something and thirty something gets to be a little bit older   you start um  
the dollar value on things   i  
you know i think people that own homes a lot in north dallas are very [materialistic]  
i know i'm supposed to talk about homes  
but people that the people that own them are the homes themselves  
and you know um spending sixteen dollars a yard for custom [draperies] for custom drapes just doesn't  
yeah  
that's  
i mean and and you know you see a lot of these people that came east from uh west from uh from new york with exxon or j c penney  
and it's just a hoot to watch them  
right  
right  
exactly  
so well was it hard to adjust living in an apartment after being in a house  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well in a way you can travel light  
how is how is apartment [dwelling] living in terms of general privacy and noise and things like that  
uh_huh  
yes  
i do  
everybody pretty much keeps to their own turf so to speak  
yeah  
uh_huh  
relax and try to go to sleep  
really  
yeah  
i think plano in general is getting a little more  
well it's gotten so big it's almost a town in it's own right  
or something  
yeah  
the price of home  
now we paid oh we paid um about seventy eight nine for our house like i said about a decade ago not even about nine years ago  
and i'd say they appraised it  
it's gone up you now maybe like five percent  
so it's an investment  
but it's something that  
you know when you're first married or starting out you think if you really have something  
but you really  
it's just real  
nowadays with the way the income tax i think housing is strictly to itemize  
yeah  
exactly  
we  
yeah  
and even  
you know i mean like we had i called them [prefabs] just a tract home  
you know i mean we we had one of their homes that was nicer in pennsylvania  
but um it was an older home  
but then you buy an older home and you're always fixing things up  
so you know  
my home  
all right  
my home is about fifteen years old  
it's a two story house  
it it's our first home  
and it looks like it's going to be the last  
i think we're going to [demolish] it  
we've got two children  
and it's  
they have scraped the uh plaster off the walls you know with riding their little toys through it and stuff you know  
put dents in the tiles just [multitude] of them  
i mean even places  
it's it's past the dent stage  
we're talking some of it's been peeled away you know  
i don't know what they  
yeah  
dents in the hole  
right  
we've got two  
one of them's eleven  
and one of them's seven  
and then the carpet you know  
we need to replace the carpet  
i mean it sounds like it's just the pits  
but it's not all that bad i guess  
but you know they're just real hard on it  
definitely  
i can see why people wait until they get like in high school or maybe junior high  
and then they get another one  
i know there's a lot of them  
yeah  
because they're always   because they're always ruining something  
how old is your child  
well  
some appliances breaking or something  
and you said you were in colorado springs  
are there a lot of trailers around there  
and is that what you're in  
well then that's why you're doing this then isn't it  
oh okay  
well  
i'm not in t i  
i had a friend that had a roommate that worked for t i  
and she saw this come up on the computer screen and ran it off and passed it to the people that were interested  
i know i've been talking to people in ohio and uh virginia and i think california  
yeah  
it is  
how does she get to work  
uh_huh  
i had a  
and i wish we could down here  
well sometimes  
but i tell you i'd sure like to be able to get on a bus or something and get to work  
but if i did it it would take me an hour and fifteen minutes  
i would have to get on one and drive or walk to a you know  
there's one terminal close to us  
and then they'd drive me to the main terminal here  
then i'd have to go to downtown dallas and then walk over couple blocks and get on another bus to go to my school  
so that's too much  
yeah  
but there sure are a lot of people that work down there  
definitely  
and i went down there a couple maybe three weeks ago for a trial  
and i mean all these people were standing up that was you know during the [workday] all along the streets   you know just all around these vacant buildings just a lot of vacant buildings  
and they're just being demolished  
and and they stink  
and   beer and wine bottles all over the place  
uh_huh  
you know i think it might be up to two hundred and fifty thousand  
it's gotten big  
i think when we moved here it was like a hundred and twenty something like that  
and i didn't realize when i moved here that it was a separate town from dallas  
i know now  
but i didn't  
i'm from kilgore texas  
it's in east  
oh where you from  
are you  
so why did you move up to colorado  
well it's real pretty up there  
i have a friend   in denver  
what do you  
what  
they're not owning homes period  
uh_huh  
it wasn't such a bad idea  
so have you got uh land  
i did that one year  
i lived with two other girls  
and we all taught  
and it was a two bedroom  
so we took turns you know   having sharing the bedroom  
i got to where i decided i wanted to pay more rent and get a private bedroom  
and then we had two baths  
it was just one the little bathroom were the thing that really bothered me because i felt real closed in  
that was in the seventies  
uh_huh  
i'm sorry  
uh_huh  
so have   have you got it under  
are you required to by law  
we were down here  
yeah  
well i bet it's not bad  
okay  
but how much is yours  
when we bought ours we were paying uh three hundred twenty nine dollars  
for how many years  
oh so it was still a lot cheaper  
so it was still a lot cheaper than what we gave because ours is thirty years  
and we bought one of the cheapest houses you know a tract house  
which probably didn't make much difference  
have a in it  
in the price  
gee nice huh  
that sounds good  
so if the economy gets better are you going to get another one another house  
no  
but you wouldn't take that mobile home  
right  
you would  
it would be cheaper to move that than buy another one  
t i would pay to move you  
so how many years you been up there  
do you snow ski  
it's real pretty  
i went rock climbing one time  
my friend talked me in that  
i'm a real um [scaredy] when it comes to heights  
but once we got on top of the rocks it was quite  
so tell me about your home  
all right  
yes  
we talking from from dents in the holes  
i understand  
we've got i've got a daughter  
kids are hard on houses  
yeah  
yeah  
uh we live in a mobile home  
and that's probably not typical america  
but  
it's  
what we have  
it's all we can afford  
and uh seems like we're always working on it as i'm sure   it is with your house  
yeah  
ten  
girl  
so you know just like yours ours is always you know  
we're  
something else goes wrong always you know  
it's  
no  
appliances  
we had a couple plumbing problems  
we've oh  
who knows you know it's always something with homes  
yes  
yeah  
there are there's a big military constituency  
oh no  
no  
i'm i work for t i  
oh yes  
what division are you in  
oh  
it's not a hobby you know  
it's something to do  
i get to here about texas again a bit and get to talk to people all over the country  
you know that i've talked to someone in maryland i believe it was  
it's interesting isn't it  
you know the gal i talked to in maryland didn't own a car  
she's never traveled anywhere  
she's never been anywhere  
she you know  
i talked about one of the biggest problems in the united states being our roads  
and she didn't understand  
she doesn't drive  
uh she uh lives on campus  
she's a college student  
buses and and uh public transportation  
her her parents live by the public transportation  
well it would be nice  
but i kind of like the freedom too don't you  
right  
if it's anything like uh  
dallas always has been  
no one wants to be at downtown dallas much  
is the crime rate still bad  
huh  
huh  
yeah  
huh that's terrible  
so garland how nice is it now  
it's been a while since i've been there  
yes  
it has  
well yeah  
it is  
where you from  
kilgore  
i know where kilgore is  
i'm i'm originally from lubbock  
yeah  
seemed like the thing to do at the time  
oh i love it   the mountains  
i love the mountains  
uh back to the topic  
it seems that uh more and more people are not owning traditional homes these days  
yeah  
yeah  
uh everyone says you know  
when i bought this several years ago when our local economy was good everyone said no no you're crazy to buy a mobile home  
but now it seems that uh with the local economy bad and t i  
and strange it seems that uh  
oh they're doing some back [pedaling]  
no  
i'm renting at the time  
so  
gosh  
yeah  
well mobile homes have changed a lot probably since you had one  
ours is wood ours is wood sided  
and it has a traditional v top   roof  
and uh it's nine hundred and eighty square foot  
what two bedroom one bath   rooms are nice sized  
well you can imagine nine hundred eighty square foot broke up into two bedrooms one bath  
it's it's comfy  
yes  
i   don't know whether it is or not  
it was already setup when we bought it  
oh yeah  
it's wood sided it has [sheetrock] everywhere  
and uh you know so it's quieter than you remember mobile homes to be  
oh our payments are like two twenty  
fifteen  
and uh what  
yeah  
oh yes  
a mobile [home's] a heck of a lot cheaper  
and well actually whenever we got ours we picked it up used you know three or four years used and uh   well yeah  
it did  
no  
no  
no  
what i meant not in quality  
what i meant was   four years equity costs five hundred dollars  
so you know there's not that much time left on the loan  
and  
i don't know  
uh to tell you the truth right now it feels kind of comfy to have our mobile home and have it so close to paid for  
you know it's like me to pickup and move somewhere else somewhere else is easy  
sure  
sure  
absolutely  
oh absolutely  
when i you know when you talk about the deal like i got yeah yeah it would be cheaper  
uh especially if it were a paid move or something  
you know there's some paid moves occasionally  
i don't know  
but they did  
when i when i moved up here  
so they might want to move away  
uh six or seven  
uh a little bit little bit  
mostly i just love walking in the mountains driving in the mountains  
oh that's exciting  
okay  
what uh go ahead and tell me about your home  
oh is that right  
oh that's interesting  
okay  
yeah  
no  
that's okay  
okay  
oh that's neat  
wow that's large  
uh_huh  
oh well that's not too bad  
that's still fairly new  
well  
oh you're kidding  
well do you mind if i ask what it's worth down there  
i mean what it's  
okay  
it it sounds like  
i mean from the way you described it a home like that here would be at least two hundred and fifty thousand  
i mean dallas is a very marked up area  
although right now it's a lot lower   um because of all the layoffs and everything  
the economy around here is real poor  
well no  
not really  
um the area itself uh the fort worth dallas area um has become kind of depressed because there's been so many layoffs with big companies including texas instruments  
um there's been tremendous amounts of of uh layoffs  
so really housing is real bad  
the economy itself around here is not too terribly bad  
but housing is still real bad  
yeah  
yeah  
this is  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
wow  
so do you think  
it was [overdeveloped] then  
wow  
um  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
well right now we're just renting  
but it is a home um  
it's a four bedroom home  
it has about i guess eighteen hundred square feet  
it's on one floor  
uh we have no basement  
i don't know  
okay  
i wasn't sure  
most of the ones   you know up north and everything do  
but um anyway it's uh it's pretty also pretty typical for the area  
most of this area was developed  
this house was built in seventy four  
so most of the  
it's almost twenty years old  
and most of the houses around here were built pretty much the same style  
uh we have a friend that lives two blocks over  
and his house is almost identical to us except his is three bedrooms and ours is four  
but otherwise the [layout] is pretty much the same  
so i i think most of them are  
there was  
it  
like most areas that are built um  
there were probably like two or three styles you could choose from  
and and uh that's pretty much all the houses in the area for probably a square mile i'd say at least maybe even a little bit more than that  
where are you in relation to sevren  
are you close to sevren  
okay  
well i just  
i have a sister that used to live in sevren  
and they bought their home in i i want to say like around nineteen seventy five or something like that  
and they paid like  
they they had it built from you know  
they they designed it and everything  
and to have it built they only paid forty thousand for it  
and when they left the area they sold it for a hundred and twenty thousand  
yeah  
so i just wondered you know if the whole area was like that or  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
sounds like a lot of money though  
sure  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
wow  
yeah  
wow  
wow that's  
really  
that much of a difference  
wow  
yeah  
wow  
why is that  
do you know  
i mean  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
my goodness  
wow  
well my home at the moment is an apartment  
yeah  
i work here in germantown  
but i live in pensacola florida  
so i own a home in pensacola  
and uh let's see  
we are to compare homes correct  
uh my home is well is typical for the area  
i live in a development uh  
it's a relatively i would say well  
god it sounds like sounds like i'm bragging  
but it's upper middle class   uh kind of an environment  
it's a two story colonial which my wife and i designed  
uh it has around thirty two hundred square feet   uh five bedrooms and so forth and so on  
and it is i would imagine in terms of of size and so forth it's relatively typical for the area  
it might be  
i would say it's probably [midsized] for the area  
there are some smaller  
and there are you know several larger  
and uh   but based you know in terms of you know in in pensacola in that area of florida it uh it's what now  
it is uh probably ten years old  
yeah  
and so it's  
in terms of cost and and and size and so forth it uh  
the you know housing there is extremely affordable and uh compared to other parts of the country you know  
let's say compared to maryland   that same house here would probably cost three quarters of a million dollars  
but  
i really haven't i really haven't uh  
when we built it ten years ago it was it ran around a hundred and forty thousand dollars  
so i i would have really i haven't really priced you know in the market  
so i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i thought that was on the [upswing] again now  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well pensacola has  
it's really is a buyer's market there now  
and it isn't because of the well  
there has been a lot of speculative building   uh i don't know perhaps not in dallas  
but uh i'm sure people in uh you know in uh galveston and so forth would be knowledgeable about it uh  
pensacola is a navy town  
and home [porting] was a possibility a few years ago  
they were expecting an influx of something on the order of fifty thousand people or more from the navy  
a new carrier was coming in and uh the uh [attendant] uh support [vessels]  
well that's no longer   the case  
oh it's it is  
i mean the the number of single family units on sale is phenomenal compared to the population  
and so  
[overbuilding] is has been a real problem there  
so you can still get a get a a good house for a very very reasonable price  
and i mean good i would  
let's say typical say three bedroom uh two and a half baths on a half acre or so of land uh reasonable construction would probably run you uh right now anywhere between somewhere between a hundred and a hundred and forty thousand dollars   and probably perhaps   cheaper depending upon the neighborhood  
what about your home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
nor do we  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well the housing here in maryland is just atrocious and in in the entire d c area  
i'm i'm only about uh twelve miles or so from the uh border of washington d c and montgomery county  
maryland is probably one of the most expensive   places to  
no  
we are west  
sevren is east near the eastern shore  
if i had  
uh_huh  
oh that's not unusual yeah  
well that's that area over there is not as expensive as in the the immediate you know washington area  
and so we uh i was just looking  
for example there is a uh condominium complex next to the apartment complex where i live  
and i was over there recently looking at the possibility of buying a two bedroom condominium  
and ninety two thousand dollars for a two bedroom which is essentially a two bedroom apartment  
now it was very nicely done  
i would have thought  
yes  
i   i can't i can't envision spending that much money and on on something along those lines  
so you know it's  
i guess you pay the [piper]  
but   plus the the the taxes around here are [phenomenally]   high  
uh for the  
and so you on that  
it's not unusual for example for somewhere around here on a on a on a  
what we would you know what you described as your house and what i would describe as my house  
say for example in pensacola florida on that house with the homestead [exemption] and so forth and so on might pay three or four hundred dollars a year taxes     maybe you know maybe a little bit higher than that now  
but that same house here you'd pay almost six thousand dollars a year   taxes on it  
so it's uh   so the question of whether to buy here or move to another county say drive twenty more miles north buy a condominium for approximately uh the same price maybe a little lower  
but the taxes would be you know perhaps maybe one third   uh of  
oh absolutely   yeah  
so  
it's it's really sad  
this is one this is one of the most highly taxed areas in the country  
well they it the their they do have an extremely good such things as extremely good school systems for example  
it has one of the best school systems in the country  
uh and because the cost of living around here is so high  
public employees make great salaries around here  
i was reading just recently where the typical administrator in the   montgomery county public schools makes  
and i'm not  
this is uh the figure  
he makes eighty thousand dollars a year  
that's  
and i  
by administrator i i think i mean  
i they didn't they did not define it  
but for example a curriculum supervisor or principal or someone you know in that uh in that range  
okay  
jay where do you live in texas  
in dallas  
what's that the i thirty and central   express  
okay  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
oh is that right  
oh how about that  
it's a   new home  
about eight years  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well we   we live in a brick story and a half uh  
cape [cod] style i guess you'd   call it  
and uh have a big sun room on the back of it  
no  
it doesn't have  
with openness and light  
i understand that  
i would love that too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
this is very traditional  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you have children at home  
three  
oh boy  
you still need   space plenty of space  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
well  
it's uh-oh about twenty five thousand twenty five hundred square feet   i guess  
it's four bedrooms and two baths and that  
it   has one wing built on that's a kitchen family room and then the big room on the back uh  
uh_huh  
two and two  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i was just reading an article uh that there were nineteen thousand properties available in texas uh for sale by the resolution trust corporation  
[repossessed]  
i   i guess so  
uh_huh  
that's discouraging if you own property  
few years  
uh_huh  
right  
well our daughter and son in law moved up back up here he's from texas but course she's from here uh about a year and a half ago   and had their house on the market down there  
and they never did sell it  
so they stayed six months  
and she got her job back and   he got a job down there  
because  
huh_uh  
nope  
they live in rowlett  
have you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what college are you teaching at  
oh  
uh_huh  
the only one i know   is richardson  
garland  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i enjoyed   talking to you  
i hope so  
right  
okay  
thank you  
same to you  
bye bye  
i live in dallas  
uh right at the intersection of the [busiest] highway in the state and a uh it goes east and west and a north south tollway  
it's  
no  
it's   called six thirty [five's] the highway  
it's the [looper] that goes around the city  
and then uh the tollway is called the dallas north tollway  
just moved here about uh-oh uh one about a month ago   after twenty one years two miles to the east  
so it's a very different house from the typical dallas uh   house  
it's about eight years old  
it's uh it's a duplex type thing   uh very modern and uh very open and [airy]   light  
so it's different than the than the long texas [ramblers]  
uh_huh  
what's your house like  
oh great  
yeah  
so it's got a lot of openness and light also  
oh it doesn't  
well that's what my wife really wanted  
and so uh  
yeah  
that's  
uh our our last house wasn't too bad  
but it was just too traditional  
and so if uh  
the the next time uh probably a year and a half from now we're going to try to build  
so make one really uh contemporary and and very modern and very open and very light  
no  
i have three in college  
they they usually get back for the at least two of them for the summer  
so   but  
still need a little bit of space  
we we have a lot less than we had   uh recently  
already cut back  
how big is your place  
oh   that's good size  
yeah  
we   we had  
yeah  
we had four bedrooms two and a half baths uh in the place we just left  
so down now we're down to two and two  
uh_huh  
so it won't be terribly wonderful when the kids are home  
but it won't be that long because we not for sure you know how long they're going to stay or whatever  
so  
oh yes  
yes  
and if you get in the if if you can find one in the right area you can really   pick up a steal  
uh we we really didn't go that route and didn't look  
uh but uh the planning of them  
and the the housing market probably still going to even go lower  
there are many many houses for sale just by the regular route  
so uh  
yeah  
and we just decided uh uh sell  
and we got we got a pretty good price uh for for what we had  
uh not as good as it would have been   say three or four   years ago  
but that uh that was just the timing  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
they're not moving very well  
for sure  
and that's a good uh example of it  
oh yeah  
i know where that is  
i've been we've been here for twenty five years  
i'm from missouri  
and my wife's from kansas  
so   i i teach at a college here  
so it's uh it's sort of home now  
so  
i'm at uh one of the uh it's called brookhaven college  
it's one of the community colleges  
and it's just about two miles to the west of   where i'm living  
so it's very nice   very convenient  
yeah  
now richland college is out it serves richardson and uh garland  
and that's about nine miles to the east   of here  
so uh anyway well it's good to hear from you  
and i hope we   hope we did them some   good uh on their little computer   [dealy]  
and uh have a good life the rest of it  
bye bye  
okay  
yeah  
i'm originally from new york  
and i go visit a lot  
and their real estate up there is i mean ridiculous absolutely ridiculous  
an apartment here  
like i live in an apartment  
and my apartment is three fifteen a month  
and it's just the one   it's a one bedroom  
which is still kind of expensive  
but i prefer to live in uh in a nice part of town because i feel safe here  
and i i i pay more to feel safe you know  
you mean in a one bedroom  
oh nothing  
huh_uh  
i mean just nothing no microwave  
we've got i have ceiling fan  
i guess that's something  
it's real cute it's got a little [vaulted] ceiling and [mirrored] uh [mirrored] uh  
it's wood uh  
listen to me i can't even think of the name of my own apartment  
[woodhollow]  
right next to village green  
it's on  
yeah  
kind of far north waco  
oh okay  
yeah  
far north like on lake shore where all those apartments are  
it's right up there  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that could have been used as  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
so that looks good when you all get ready to sell you'll probably do really well  
my father used to live in dallas uh  
now he he went back to new jersey  
we're originally from the east  
but he  
oh really  
he uh well actually right now he lives in rhode island  
he lived in new jersey for a while now he's in rhode island  
and uh he used to like to go  
and we used to go just every weekend just to look at houses for no reason we weren't buying one every weekend but just to look at them  
and so i got a pretty good feel of you know what i want when i do you know get my house whenever that is um  
what was i going to say about that  
i completely lost my train of thought um  
but we we enjoy going looking at houses  
and and uh we now  
i kind of have a good idea of what i want  
i know i want a big family area  
uh yeah  
fire a fireplace  
i saw this awesome house the other weekend  
it was a great big family room  
and it was circular  
and the other side was the patio and the backyard  
and it had a built in uh grill  
and every  
i mean it was it was just an the ultimate party room you know  
i was just going i could have a party in here  
but that's pretty nice  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i like a lot of closet space  
i don't like because  
i don't like to have a lot of things out you know just all over the place  
i like to have them kind of tucked away  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
my father had uh  
i keep talking about my father because he owned a house  
uh he had the kitchen kind of a kitchen and a very long family room  
it's just kind of one room  
and what he did he put uh a bar right in the center   and put some uh a glass rack down so you had like wine glasses hanging from the ceiling and then the bar  
and it just kind of it kind of separated it  
it was still you know together  
but it just looked a lot better  
because i personally don't like the combination rooms  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'd like a big backyard  
oh really  
a little hot  
try to do it early in the mornings  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
they do throw those up  
are you all planning to move anytime  
are you looking for a house or not  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
to find it  
uh_huh  
you knew that was it  
uh_huh  
i'll probably i'll probably move  
but i'll probably move to another apartment or something because i'm i'm i'm really uh  
what's the word  
i move a lot anyway   because the job i have i only work  
like here i'll be here for like a year  
and then i'll move off  
i can move up  
and so  
i'm a i'm a news reporter  
i work at channel six  
and so this is like my first job  
so i won't be here very long  
so i'm not even looking to buy anything as permanent as house you know  
so i'm staying in an apartment  
and i'm not married or anything  
so   it's no biggie  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
like i'm amazed at how much stuff i've accumulated in my apartment   because up to this point i was in school so i'd go home every summer  
and i could take all my stuff home because i didn't have a bed or a couch or any any of that  
but now i could not move back home  
and i just realized this you know the other day  
i'm going wait a minute  
i can't go back home for the summer or anything i have too much stuff  
so it was just like a weird transition out of home  
so i have to move in apartments just because i have so much stuff  
no  
it's not  
it's not  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
there there are tons of apartments down here i mean  
and it  
m c c  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think they're called lake shore [villa] or something  
um  
and it's a nursing  
there was a nursing home or something right there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how often do you all come through waco  
uh_huh  
depends on what's going on  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
all right  
you think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
waco to me seems seems like it's pretty steady  
i mean i'm not a real estate person or anything  
but it it's a real college town  
and so you know you have these apartments  
and then the the houses are all most of the houses are pretty nice  
and i don't i don't you know really see a lot on sale or anything  
and people are pretty stable here  
you know i kind of see this as kind of a retirement community as i always call it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
nice and quiet  
so i don't think i could live here much longer  
but   i'll deal with it  
well it  
yeah  
really  
okay well it was very nice talking to you  
okay  
you take care  
okay  
bye bye  
oh  
and how big is it  
yeah  
right  
well what's included in that  
like washer dryer or  
nothing  
wow  
yeah  
which one is it  
where is  
oh okay  
okay  
yeah  
i i used to live in waco  
so  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
uh we live in a house here  
and uh it's a three bedroom two bath  
and uh i it's it i don't know  
i got two numbers today  
actually we were talking about mortgage insurance today with my agent  
and uh it's about sixteen hundred square feet   which is fine for the two of us  
but it it you know we looked at a lot of houses that were had more square footage  
but they didn't use it right you know  
it was a bunch of empty you know hallway and stuff that  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
so we've used every bit of it  
and our house um we bought it for sixty four  
and uh the neighbors house next door to us sold for seventy five  
so you know i think we were you know got a good deal on it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
my husband's from new jersey  
yeah  
that's what we were looking for the first thing  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but that's what we had uh uh  
that's what we had looked for was our main concern was a big living room   you know and big closet space you know  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh so that's that's what we went for first  
and and it you know we we don't we just have a big living room  
an and a dining room is separate  
and you know some places have  
like the house next door to us that we looked at   had a living room a dining room and a den  
but to stick a wall between two rooms didn't do anything for us just so we could have a living room and a den  
so we opted for the just the whole wide room   that went from one end of the house to the other just about  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
right  
i but i i think for where we are   um i think we got a real good deal on it  
and we you know we have a  
uh the backyard is just huge  
it is just really  
i think another house could fit back there  
and uh we really liked it  
of course when you have to mow it   you know in uh middle of august it's it's kind of   a little hot  
yeah  
but uh it's it's nice  
and that was you know a big selling point too  
and i think another thing that was really nice was that our neighbors on the other side of us bought the lot right next to us  
and they've lived there and have it all built up you know  
they've got a whole garden and trees and everything  
so it's not like we're uh   kind of [secluded] you know  
we don't have a neighbor's fence coming up to ours   you know right up to our bathroom window or whatever it is   like a lot of the little model homes that they you know throw up in three days  
and uh  
no  
no  
not at all  
in fact uh we we talked about that just a little bit you know  
we were [joking] around about uh winning a [sweepstakes]   and what would we do with the money  
and steve said we'll i'll buy a bigger house  
and i said no i would just fix this one  
you know there's you know cause we i like where it is  
and i like how it's laid out  
and it took us forever to find it  
but when we found it it was we knew it  
yeah  
yeah  
where  
oh okay  
oh okay  
right  
right  
um  
yeah  
and that's and that's one thing is once you you know you get into a house it's like you get more stuff  
and to put it all back into an apartment would just never work  
god i can't believe we moved out of an apartment and had this much stuff  
and it actually fit you know  
of course we got it on a little bit of more furniture and stuff  
but it was just unreal  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and that's  
actually three fifteen over there's probably not real real bad  
for for waco  
and and for as many   gosh as many as apartments and [condo's] are over there  
i mean it it's just  
and and especially around lake shore area that area's picked up quite a bit since we were there  
and uh  
yeah  
because i i had lived in the  
gosh i'm not sure what they're called now  
but they were lake shore apartments that are like right next to the baseball field m c c baseball field  
but   no  
the ones next door to those  
there were lake shore  
there's a  
i don't know what they look like now  
yeah  
there was a nursing home  
and then there's an apartment  
and then there's another apartment  
and we lived in those those third ones  
and they we moved in when they were brand new   uh you know  
we drive by now and think gosh you know   look how much it's changed an  
oh every now and then  
it just  
we  
it's uh  
yeah  
and it's not really  
now that it's sixty five it doesn't take hardly anytime to get there you know run to the mall or run to sam's or   or whatever  
we used to run to you know red lobster  
but now they've got one in killeen  
so  
we don't have to run that far  
so that's that's about how things are  
and the seems like the market here's picking up  
yeah  
i really think it is  
just for the fact that the you know  
it's it seemed like as soon as we bought this house we saw all these houses for sale   you know  
and i think now a lot of them are selling  
and a lot of [sellers] are getting close to what they want instead of you know just having to give it away  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i saw i see that a lot too there  
and it's nice too  
i liked living there  
well  
i guess we chewed up the house market   and apartment market for a while  
you too tanya  
all right  
bye bye  
okay  
tell me about your home  
huh_uh  
that's pretty tough  
what area do you live in  
oh okay  
i see  
is that pretty typical for your area  
yeah  
huh_uh  
that sounds real interesting  
i live in a suburb of dallas  
and uh i live in the basic three bedroom two bath home  
so at least i have two bathrooms  
that's not so bad  
but uh it's pretty typical for the area as well  
uh i've always been interested in older homes personally  
so i think you can end up doing more with them it seems like  
what about yard space  
do you have lot of a big lot or anything like that  
oh i see  
huh_uh  
oh that's nice  
because i have just like a very small you know those basic tract houses like that  
we have a very small yard  
and um i do have garden  
but it's extremely small  
but uh it seems like though for your area that that is sort of different  
in a big city like that most houses i would think would be sort of like what we live in just a you know basic tract house  
yeah  
that's exactly right  
that's the way we are  
we have uh one thing we have that we really enjoy here is we have a hot tub in the back  
so we have we have quite a few parties  
and uh seems like everyone that lives around us ends up you know hearing every conversation that goes on outside with everyone  
so uh that's true  
that is one thing that i don't enjoy about it is the houses are too close together  
but uh you know it's fine for now  
hopefully eventually we'll move in a larger home  
the only thing that i don't like also is the rooms are so small  
you know it's very difficult to arrange furniture and things like that  
so  
are your rooms in your house bigger since it's a sixties home  
because it seems like then that they built the homes much larger  
is that true  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's really it  
that's a plus  
at least we do have like three walk in closets here  
so that's that's maybe not so typical  
but uh  
yeah  
it really does except when you have to fill them up  
and then you get those visa bills in  
and  
so anyway um anything else about the area about um  
you know can you compare yourself to any thing around there  
yeah  
so it's it's  
yeah  
yeah  
that's nice  
that is nice  
but you know too the only bad thing too is that then you have to keep up you know  
you have to   the yard to deal with  
and  
do you  
you must have more time than than i have  
i'm sitting out here right now  
we had this terrible rain  
and i'm looking at the yard and seeing how tall the grass has gotten  
and it seems like  
now that's that's  
i almost wish i was in an apartment or something you know  
yeah  
well um i don't know do we just terminate this or do you have to talk for a certain amount of time  
do you know  
okay  
okay  
well can you tell me anything else about the house  
are you working on it  
i mean do people around that area seem to do a lot of [renovation]  
yeah  
that's that's nice  
yeah  
the town that i came from is uh is a uh older town  
it like  
the typical the typical homes there are like you know early nineteen hundreds late eighteen hundreds  
and i renovated a house there  
and that was so much fun  
i mean there if you don't live in a house that's at least seventy five to hundred years old you know you're just nobody practically  
and that was really that was a good experience for me to learn a lot of discipline  
and uh was considered typical for that area  
so uh it was quite a change for me to come to a house like that now that's just you know a very square little box  
and you know there's not a whole lot you can do with it  
but uh anyway  
yeah  
that's true  
oh really  
well i have lived in a small town for you know  
this this town was like less than ten thousand people  
and it was about sixty miles south of dallas  
and you know i didn't move out of there until i was you know twenty seven  
and that was just you know  
so i love the big city  
you know i had lived in a rural area for for so long  
so i've enjoyed it  
but uh it can it can get kind of tough  
its like a rat race sometimes  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it sounds like you enjoy working outside as well  
i i  
yeah  
i really do enjoy that  
but i haven't planted anything yet  
or you know i usually have gotten flowers coming out the [gazoo]  
but i i haven't done that yet  
i've had finals this week  
so uh   you know i'm just kind of trying to trying to stick in with that  
but uh since that's over with now maybe i can i can get this yard in shape  
do you do a lot of gardening  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i never have much luck with tomatoes  
i do plant a lot of beans because it seems like the uh bugs get on them so easily  
and i have a real problem with anything like [pesticides] or anything like that  
so the only thing that i use is soap  
i water you know spray the plants because they say supposedly that will keep the bugs off them  
but uh i don't have luck with that tomato plant  
so i hate to spray them with anything  
um what do you do  
do you have any tips you could give me  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
my dad is a farmer  
so i've heard him talk about that forever  
i guess it works  
but um you have to really wash your vegetables after that  
so it won't make you sick  
let's see what else do you do to your house  
yeah  
oh really  
do you plan on like adding any rooms or  
you have enough space  
you could probably do that  
or is it  
yeah  
i would think so if you only have one bathroom for three bedrooms  
that's tough  
do you not like have a half bath  
yeah  
yeah  
that's rough  
the house that i used to live in had one bath and a half  
and that was even just with two people  
that was a pain  
that's good  
really  
that could account for a lot of [marital] problems i think  
you get to know each other very well if you have to share a bathroom  
no  
that's right  
it does not make for a happy situation  
that's true  
well do you have any children  
one child  
and they enjoy where they're living  
oh so he doesn't know right  
i guess he's a big help out in your garden  
right  
that's right  
it's healthy  
why not  
yeah  
no  
it won't hurt them  
i was a big dirt eater supposedly when i was a child  
and i turned out okay  
so don't worry about it  
just let him enjoy himself  
so you think that you want to move away from the big city uh  
yeah  
so you're just the opposite from me  
you want to go back to that uh  
yeah  
yeah  
so are you from texas  
you are  
so it's not you know  
that's true  
houston in itself is a pretty tough place  
well it's an older home  
it was made back in the early sixties  
it's a pier beam house  
got three bedrooms one bath and that just makes me scream  
i live in houston  
well for the neighborhood i'm in  
yeah  
this is one of the more established neighborhoods  
the whole lot i'm sitting on is roughly half an acre  
about half of that about a quarter acre of that i've got a garden  
well in the uh newer neighborhoods and development communities the houses are so close together  
if your neighbor is having an argument you can here it blow for blow  
yeah  
and they've got better closet space  
new houses that i've seen  
it helps a bunch  
yeah  
most of the neighborhood i'm in is pretty typical  
this whole neighborhood was built between sixty and sixty five  
everybody has got a pretty good size yard  
i mean i got probably the biggest  
if not the biggest yard i've got pretty close to it   in the entire neighborhood  
well i   i enjoy that though  
it's rained  
no  
we can  
after you go to somewhere between five and ten minutes they'll get a little master recording on   this  
yeah  
this entire neighborhood everybody keeps the places up real nice  
wow  
living in the city has some advantages  
if given the choice i'm getting out  
that's just something i'll never adapt to  
i don't i don't want to be a part of the rat race  
i want to be basically just kind of left alone  
if i want to sit around and mess with my garden i'll mess with my garden  
if i want to work in the flower beds  
very much  
huh_uh  
uh landscaping is more than the gardening  
in the garden i've got my beans peas  
i've got some onions out   tomatoes  
i'm not real sure what they're going to do this year  
um my favorite one is putting on the um tomato plant is to put uh dust  
and that stuff has been around since the beginning of time  
well i've done some rewiring on it  
eventually if we stay here i'm going to have to [rewire] the entire house  
i've talked about adding at least one more room and definitely adding another bath on  
not even a half bath  
the only thing that saves it with the schedule i work and the schedule my wife works we're getting ready to go to work at totally different times   so that it's not like we're [tripping] over each other in the morning  
it doesn't work if you're trying to shave and she's trying to put her [eyeliner] on  
and   you're both fighting over the mirror  
i've got one  
we'll  
he's nine months old  
he likes to dig around a little bit  
his mother comes in and says why did you let him play in the dirt  
i guess he's enjoying himself  
he was eating the dirt  
i wouldn't worry about it  
well that's what i've always  
i was raised up in a town that was about ten thousand people  
after we got married we moved ended up moving to the houston area  
yeah  
okay  
sorry  
oh it's uh it looks like a little shot gun house almost  
it's got three bedrooms going along one side and the living room and kitchen on the other  
it's uh an older home  
it's not new  
i like it though  
it's big  
oh i wouldn't know  
i measured it one time   because i was uh we had saw some termites  
and we thought about getting it sprayed  
i think it was like  
i can't remember  
i'm sorry  
it's big enough for us though  
we kind of need maybe one more room  
we've got two children  
okay  

see that's north  
okay  
i live i live in plano  
so it's north to me  
i say down  
i'm really from kentucky  
uh_huh  
right  
oh okay  
that area  
that [dialect]  
uh_huh  
that's what i want to do  
how many kids do you have  
do you have enough bedroom space then  
uh_huh  
that's kind of like what we'd like to do  
we just had a baby a couple months ago  
and we've got a den  
it's more or less a spare room  
we rarely go in there except for to play chess  
we want to make that a bedroom for my stepdaughter and my daughter  
and uh we need the one extra room  
like like you said our rooms are too the bedrooms are too small  
the living room and kitchen are huge  
but the bedrooms are too small  
where you've got to leave the furniture just one certain way you can't [rearrange] it at all  
yeah  
yeah  
we've got two great big windows in our back bathroom  
no privacy  
well we've got at least two windows on every wall in the house  
it  
i'd hate to clean these windows  
i really would  
ours are those too  
yeah  
you must live in an older home too then  
uh_huh  
ours has too  
when we moved in the man that sold it to us had said that he remodeled it  
and he did it [hisself]  
so most of that by now is falling apart  
you know well i mean it's not just horrible  
but like this tiles come loose off the wall  
the whole bathroom is covered from ceiling to foot in tile  
and i don't like that at all  
with that uh the great big tiles square tiles like that you put on the floor   the the huge one  
yeah  
instead of wallpaper  
i wouldn't mind it if it was like short tiles  
for that you put  
right  
that you put around a [bathtub]  
that would be prettier  
but this looks like floor covering on the wall  
it just doesn't look good  
right  
there's one big one that has come off  
and short of putting nails through it we can't get it back on  
so  
and he [rewired] the house  
and it's [shorting] out here and there  
and  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
we've got power [surges] on the west side of our house  
we've got our stereo hooked up  
well that  
the power makes it run  
it's never ran  
it's always ran just fine the clock and stuff  
but it runs about ten minutes fast except for about a month for about a month the the clock ran normal  
and then the power went off again  
lightning or something knocked it out  
and we hooked it back up  
and now it's running ten or fifteen minutes fast again  
but on the east side of the house it runs fine  
he put new wiring in  
it's all new wiring up in the attic   or i guess crawl space  
but uh-oh no  
he didn't know what he was doing  
he really should have hired people  
right  
he'll end up killing himself  
end up killing theirselves  
my husband he'll change out a light switch  
but that's about as far as he'll go  
yeah  
uh was a what  
uh_huh  
well he put  
which  
i heard it's a law that you're only allowed to have three layers of shingles  
is it three or five  
your husband probably knows  
well he's got seven layers of shingles up there  
and he told us it was a completely new roof  
like i said he didn't know what he was doing  
uh_huh  
oh no  
and uh uh a house full of snow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
my neighbor or a friend of mine when i lived in louisiana her  
we all lived on base  
my husband was in the army  
she woke up about three or four o'clock in the morning water dripping from hers  
the neighbor's uh washing machine had uh over done something  
i don't know  
but it was leaking just pouring water in  
and it all went through to her roof  
and it was coming out of the lights fixtures  
the fire alarm went off for some reason  
it shorted it out or something  
so she woke up with about six feet of water in her house  
no  
not six feet  
but  
yeah  
you might as well  
so did you have carpets and stuff  
uh_huh  
your house sounds like mine because mine's pier and beam too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
well you got to redo it the way you wanted it in the end  
are you finished with it now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how long have you lived there  
you all did it yourselves  
the home improvements  
uh_huh  
wow  
that's okay  
so tell me about your home  
uh_huh  
oh really  
what kind of square footage  
uh  
that's okay  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
so where do you live at  
i mean what part of town in here in denison  
or down here in denison  
yeah  
okay  
up here then  
i was going to say you didn't have the typical  
you have a southern accent  
but you don't have a texas accent  
well i'm originally from uh ohio cincinnati  
so i'm uh familiar with uh  
right  
right  
also i lived in georgia for about four years  
so the uh  
there's a difference too between east and west in the south   and uh the way in which people speak  
anyway my home is um i guess it's about twenty five hundred square foot  
and i have uh four bedrooms at the present  
we're [busting] out walls and things like that  
we have two  
we have two  
yeah  
we'll have enough bedroom space  
it's  
we're [rearranging] our house because the bedrooms are kind of small  
and so we're going to [enlarge] our master bedroom and take out a couple of walls and [enlarge] it and then [shuffle] the rooms around a little bit  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
there's they uh  
i know what you're saying there  
ours is the same  
and they tend to put windows in the strangest places  
you know we have windows in our bathrooms which really makes it difficult for  
uh_huh  
you're kind of limited in what you can do there and everything  
so  
no  
we don't have a lot of that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i figured i'm going to have to hire somebody to remove our windows and put new ones in that are easier to clean  
ours are the double [pane]  
and you can't really clean them on the inside you know  
right  
i do  
the house is about um i'd say almost thirty years old  
so it's not a new home  
it's it's seen some wear and tear   you know  
uh_huh  
oh  
um that is awful  
uh_huh  
he did it in that  
the normal tiles  
right  
uh_huh  
oh and also they're very heavy  
and so they tend to come off a whole lot easier  
um  
oh wow  
i  
that's one of the things we've been fortunate with is our uh wiring is okay  
we don't have a we don't have enough power  
um or our [breakers] aren't aren't powerful enough to take to to really help with the load in the house  
i mean we need to redo some rewiring ourselves  
but our plumbing is awful  
there is there is a shut off valve that's outside that doesn't work  
and there's no other real shut off valves inside the house  
so if something breaks we have to shut it off from the main in the street   you know  
and oh it's it can be really bizarre  
and we never know where it's going to flood  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
oh boy you do have a strange wiring problem there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's something  
my husband's in construction  
and he won't even touch electrical stuff  
he  
i mean he'll do a little things  
but he won't do any major rewiring  
he says he'd rather pay the [electrician] to handle it  
pardon  
that's right  
well that's the way mine is you know  
i mean he he well he said he went up in the attic and looked around  
and he was like oh my god  
he says looks like a bunch of spaghetti up there  
and we had squirrels in our attic when we first moved in because the roof was so sorry  
the roof was really sorry  
i mean when we moved in   we had no idea how bad it was  
it was a wood shingle roof  
and we  
the first year we were living there we had to replace the roof  
he probably knows  
i don't know what it is off hand  
yeah  
he must not of  
we stripped ours we stripped ours off  
we didn't put it over because we put composition roof on  
and we completely completely stripped all the old wood shingles off put decking up put the paper down and i mean just started from scratch  
unfortunately when we were doing that it decided it wanted to snow and hail and rain  
and we and we had we had almost i'd say about half of the roof off  
and it did this  
and a house full of snow and rain  
and it came down  
it did this in the middle of the night  
we have plastic you know just tied down on everything you know as best we could   real thick edge stuff i mean  
and the wind came in from the north  
and it just blew everything off in the middle of the night  
and we were asleep  
and and i woke up  
and i got up  
and it was about four o'clock in the morning  
and i heard all these these [drips] drip drip drip drip drip drip  
i had water coming in every light fixture  
i had water coming in everything that was in the ceiling everywhere  
and i mean it filled up my light fixtures because they're the old kind  
and i would go in  
and i'd turn on a light in the room you know  
and the light would come on  
and the whole thing would be full of water  
and i mean the light would still come on  
it didn't blow up or anything  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
that will happen  
oh my lord  
but it's quite a bit quite a bit  
you know that  
oh several of our rooms got ruined  
we have um  
we are on pier and beam  
we don't have concrete slab underneath our house  
so it it got into the carpeting got into the floor  
the carpeting was already awful anyway  
but it got into the floor and rotted the floor and made it stink  

oh really  
yeah  
they came in  
and they had it  
one room they completely cut up the floor in and removed it  
we had to call the insurance company  
i mean the insurance company was paying for the new roof  
but they also ended up having to pay for the damage when the roof was being repaired   you know which really wasn't our fault  
i mean we'd done everything we could to keep out the weather   you know and stuff  
and  
oh yeah  
it  
uh the roof  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's it's been done for quite some time  
we're really glad with all the rain we've had in the last couple of years that we have a really good roof  
uh see it's three  
it's just been at three years  
we've been in the house just the three years  
we've been doing a lot of remodeling  
i mean it's it had [detached] it had a [detached] garage  
and my husband's built a [walkway] across  
and we're going to brick up the garage to match the house and things like that  
so we  
what uh the walk  
oh yeah  
yeah  
he see he does this for a living  
i mean this is what  
what part of the country are you in  
oh you are  
east or west i'm from pittsburgh  
yeah  
um the south hills area beaver county well originally beaver county  
and uh where are you from  
oh okay  
i know where that is  
yeah  
that's pretty out there  
what well  
oh okay  
yeah  
i got my brother and my whole family there  
i'm i'm talking to you from dallas right now  
uh_huh  
no  
my husband does  
and who how about you  
place that that needed this  
well that's okay  
i guess it's an easy thing to do  
so you're you have a big  
do you have a rural house or what do you have  
oh that's a  
those are beautiful  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is it a is it a working farm  
or is it  
more more  
i can understand that  
that's probably what i would uh  
yeah  
i can hear the accent now  
i hear the   i hear the western pennsylvania um  
we live uh we lived in minneapolis for about five years  
we we originally lived in dallas  
and we met and got married  
and then um actually married in pittsburgh  
and that's that's not what they want to hear on this call uh  
at any rate we came back here with  
my husband was transferred around uh up to minnesota and now back to texas with t i  
and we're leasing a uh two story town home in a section of dallas they call north dallas  
and it's uh near a little town called plano  
well it's not little any more  
uh yes  
that's out near the airport  
that's about forty five miles from us  
it's  
yeah  
that's why we not sure we we're not sure we want to uh buy down here because we actually we lived up north long enough to appreciate the um  
minneapolis saint paul is very clean  
you know in terms of  
and in terms of housing down here um you really have your pick  
but it's just everything's overpriced for the economy  
it really is  
i mean we're we're in a leased town home  
and it's uh you're probably your teeth will probably fall out [figuratively] speaking it's nine hundred a month  
but you know what  
if you if you get anything under five hundred you get into what they call high density living   you know the big apartment complexes  
and and i just have no tolerance for that  
no  
i   that's right  
yeah  
but like the town home we're in i don't know how i mean we  
this is it's like a duplex  
like a two by two they call it like in pittsburgh  
and it's nice  
but it's i mean the girl bought it for a hundred and ten  
and now she can't sell it  
and our neighbors  
yeah  
i mean we'll our neighbors the attached on the other side they're very nice thank god  
they paid fifty eight for it  
that's how bad it  
i know  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have some friends that live in [westport]  
and it's really really bad  
i mean you  
uh_huh  
how far where is clarion county in relation to actually  
because we're considering moving to pennsylvania  
that's not too bad  
that's north  
are you going up toward uh uh  
i'm trying to think of the name of that town that starts with an m  
[bradford] no that's too far north  
so you're you're not that far north then  
okay  
well you're really not too bad  
yeah  
um was it a home that you've had for quite a few years  
or that you've  
oh then you have  
yeah  
do you have a lot of land  
or  
oh my  
well then  
there you go  
did you have a hard time getting used to  
do you feel like you live in an isolated area  
or  
yeah  
i think that that's um  
i can remember in pittsburgh when  
this has to do with homes uh indirectly  
but i can remember when upper saint [clair] was out in the you know   the rural end of washington  
and now it's it's a terrible connection  
oh well that's okay um  
but but  
yeah  
[substantially] you know  
um do you like living in an older home and restoring it like that  
how big is it  
how many square feet do you have  
well how many rooms do you think  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a junk room  
yeah  
i understand  
we have that too  
that's that's large if your children aren't at home any more  
that's large if your kids aren't at home any more  
uh_huh  
it's enough space for two people  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
right  
that's okay  
well we've got um  
this town house is pretty big  
it's about eighteen hundred square feet  
it's got three bedrooms two and a half baths  
um it's really nice  
yeah  
it is  
i mean i would never buy it  
but leasing it is fine  
um but it's just again the the privacy you know  
um we had a house in minneapolis that was on three acres  
and my husband was raised um on a working farm near  
right  
near dayton ohio  
and he said you know  
he's he's slowly getting me to um not feel isolated if we move to where there's more land  
right  
uh_huh  
that's kind of what like  
his parents have uh land that they retired to um about a hundred miles out of atlanta   and in georgia  
and it is too far south for me  
but um um but i mean they have one of the um  
when they said log cabin i just laughed  
that they retired to  
but they built one of these  
i mean it's just beautiful  
it's like a custom you know  
it's not like what i would think of when i think of old log cabins  
you know i mean it's modern  
it's  
right  
right  
it's modern  
it's beautiful  
it's country  
it's you know um  
but uh i don't  
what else about housing except it's uh well  
pittsburgh's housing economy i think it's holding it's own  
what part what sections are they in  
yeah  
that's nice  
great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's  
yeah  
a really good friend of mine lives in penn hills  
and they've been in their house oh probably about twelve years now  
and um it's it's you know  
they're going to start to see their return   on their investment very soon  
um but it's a beautiful home  
and   i mean my brother lives  
is it called [baldwin] or [bebble]  
i mean he lives all in that same area going from mount lebanon um  
it's real pretty up there  
it's just  
and the neighborhoods are stable   you know  
it's uh  
when you come to this part of the country we've been away from dallas long enough that you see the difference in housing  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
that's what it is here  
yeah  
that's why we're at a point now we've uh we're adopting  
and we have been married ten plus years  
and what happens is uh you just realize that once you get to a certain age the next house that you get we'll be staying in  
so   yeah  
that's kind of like   where we're  
so we're considering pennsylvania  
and we're just kind of you know [toying] with what exactly where we want to be you know  
a lot of people say it doesn't matter where they live if they have a nice house  
and   but i disagree with that  
i  
uh_huh  
i know  
and it and the economy here in dallas i mean it it's steady  
but it's still not going up  
and i um i just refuse to buy it um if i know i'm not going to be there for at least   five years uh you you know  
oh i'm sure  
yeah  
there i mean you can go down a street  
and here he told you this every other house you know if it's been [foreclosed] on   or you know even big executives  
um it's really i mean  
and and it's hard to sell the properties  
people from j c penney's from new york came here about a couple of years ago  
and they thought they were getting a great deal um because they could get a five hundred thousand dollar home with they call it zero lot lines no property  
jean   and it would make you ill to see this  
i mean it would probably be like your house on uh you know a half a city block in pittsburgh or something  
yeah  
i know  
and that's you know like  
i can look outside right now and look into the next unit  
you know it's across the way  
and it's landscaped and all that with azaleas  
but it's still it's still not that private  
yeah  
but you have a rider  
no  
and your kids have  
to tell you the truth um i think that if you can keep that that way you know kind of like a homestead  
uh pennsylvania  
yeah  
oh are you really  
what part of pittsburgh  
uh_huh  
uh clarion county  
i we live out in the country  
yeah  
we have we have two children that live in pittsburgh  
oh oh you are  
do you work do you work for texas instruments then  
oh uh_huh  
no  
i'm just  
my son works for a a computer   uh federal company you know  
so yeah  
uh we have a big old [farmhouse] that we've   you know remodeled  
it had been you know of course a farm  
it's a farm community  
and we  
ours is not a working farm  
yeah  
i have a garden  
but you know  
we have a garden  
but we don't farm  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh grapevine  
do you know grapevine  
yeah  
my brother has a home there he's trying to sell  
he he's living now up uh in in maryland  
but uh he   lived in grapevine for a long time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh it's terrible  
i  
oh i'm not surprised  
uh right  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
it's not good  
and the people think the income is really great in some of those areas  
but when they sit down and look at what it costs to live  
and uh of course most of the homes are you know fairly nice  
they're uh done up fairly nice uh  
right  
uh_huh  
right   uh_huh  
well prices have come down on the homes the duplexes  
uh_huh  
oh my heaven  
well i know up in connecticut the same thing happened  
and uh it's   people are devastated because they paid so much for their home  
but we like our area  
it like i said it's it's an old house and everything  
but uh  
well we're about a hundred miles from pittsburgh   north  
and yeah  
and it's it's really not you know not that far  
[bradford's] north of us  
no  
no  
uh_huh  
well we've been here since sixty six  
uh we have fifty acres  
oh pardon me  
we have forty  
we gave ten to one of our children  
no  
not really  
and and towns keep creeping closer and closer you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's ours up here  
we have  
our rural connections are real bad  
but we but we live about ten miles from probably three or four not large towns but you know reasonable  
uh yeah  
we're tired of doing it though  
we we don't want to do too much more  
uh-oh golly  
i really  
we have uh uh four rooms downstairs and a [pantry]  
and upstairs we have a bath a bath oh  
we have a half bath downstairs too  
we have a bath upstairs and one two three four bedrooms and a sewing room and a junk room  
and uh  
pardon  
well it really isn't too big yet  
we we  
a lot of people say that  
but um   it's  
we just like it real well  
and   yeah  
we had five children  
so   and they've all moved you know on  
they're all out on their own now  
uh_huh  
well it sounds like a good buy  
uh_huh  
oh that makes a big difference  
uh_huh  
you really aren't isolated because it's  
the advantages  
your home is far enough away that you're not bothered by being too close to people  
but yet you can have your friends uh  
you can have them in  
you can go out  
you have more of a choice  
you're not pressed upon as bad  
uh_huh  
uh uh_huh  
uh   uh_huh  
more luxury  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh they're  
yeah  
i suppose they are now  
we  
both of our children who live there have just bought a home  
now   uh in the mount lebanon area  
and uh the one the one boy the house they bought is completely livable  
they didn't have to do much to it  
the other one is uh uh has you know needs more work done  
it's twenty years old i think  
and but they have two children too  
and they they   bought what they could afford  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they are beautiful homes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it is  
it's real nice  
uh_huh  
oh my  
you you do when you  
when we first got married uh  
my husband works for the state  
and we moved once a year usually  
and then after they had to start paying to move us   that suddenly wasn't necessary any more  
right yeah  
you have to stop some place  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well   i do too  
i've heard too many people say i hate it here  
you know they buy a place  
and they just hate the area  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well my brother they're having trouble selling their home see  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
i i couldn't handle that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i get tired uh sometimes mowing because we mow you know a good bit of ground around the house area  
and i do get tired of that  
but uh i don't know  
i don't think i'd want to change it  
okay  
i live in plano in a four bedroom two bath house which is the area's [dominantly] three bedroom two bath  
so i'm just a little bit different than typical uh  
and of course the plano area is basically with [alleyways]  
so everything around here is set up that way which i think is a little bit different than most areas in the houses the way they're constructed  
and it's a brick house with uh some wood  
it's real nice  
i like it  
how about you  
are most of the houses in your area three bedroom two bath  
yeah  
to  
the only thing about mine um i think there's probably about oh when i go down the street i can just pick out houses that are that are identical to mine  
and usually they are the four bedroom um  
but they're spaced out oh i'd say maybe three on a two block period  
because it's all different builders up here  
so it's kind of hard at that point to you know classify some of the builders  
but most of the builders all built three two  
but the one thing my house is a little bit different  
and i can pick it out again because it's not typical  
is i've got the oh what do you call a uh double ceiling double high in one half of the house  
so like the den and the living room are all double cathedral ceilings  
and uh the kitchen is norm  
and the bedrooms are norm  
so it just goes down the dining room the family room and the living room that way  
and i love the space  
it just it's uh  
luckily i came from a house in colorado which had the cathedral ceiling  
and i just lucked out and walked into this one  
and of course i felt the same [airy] feeling which i liked it real well  
so it's a nice thing to move into  
but again it's not typical in this area  
you can just spot them because the the roof is so much higher  
but uh  
yeah  
well it's like when my son goes up into the up into the [furnace] area over the garage  
he can walk  
and he's six foot  
and he says oh come on up mom i'm not going up there  
i'm not going up there  
but he says there's plenty of room up there for a room  
so that means if i knock out the wall in my family room i could make another room overlooking my family room from upstairs with no problem  
but um i'm not that ambitious  
i  
maybe someday when i feel really ambitious and get angry i'll start [poking] holes up there but until that time  
but uh i've noticed the houses around here are basically it's one story and they're all basically two uh bath two uh with three bedrooms  
and we're  
ninety i would say about oh about ninety five percent no i guess probably a hundred percent of them all are mostly brick uh with some wood  
but it's it's basically all brick  
the next subdivision over from me is total brick  
and the one on the other side of me is about the same as mine  
but uh the one on opposite the street now they're total brick  
and they're basically almost all three two  
they're all three two  
but of course they have a little river going down their area too which is kind of nice  
no  
it's a creek  
they've put little [fountains] in and such  
oh  
do you have a lot of property i mean a lot of yard around your house now in denton  
yeah  
when you get down closer in to the newer tract homes you find almost like there's no lot line at all  
they're built practically on top of each other  
i know i was  
uh_huh  
well this subdivision here has got  
oh there's enough to put oh i'd say uh what twelve feet between each house on each side  
well i've got more on one side than i've got on the other  
but i'm like you  
i came down from colorado  
and there was more land up there around a yard with a big full back yard which here i look out my back yard and i can see the gate  
i mean the fence is right there  
i mean just don't run too fast  
or you'll hit it  
and i'm not used to that either  
i mean i could see people putting swimming pools in the back yard all around me  
but to me you put the swimming pool in your back yard  
and you've lost your back yard  
i mean uh sure  
i mean you've got a little place on one side or the other  
but uh to me their not that big enough for a pool  
but you know they're going up  
so but it's uh it's great for mowing  
but yes  
i'm used to uh walking out the back yard  
and you can play catch across the back yard  
and you've got plenty of room to even play a small game of baseball but don't do it around here  
i hadn't thought about it that way  
it  
well see now with our jobs mainly hitting downtown dallas we couldn't go too much further  
but we we went that way  
it was the schools and the cost of houses  
so we kept going out until we figured we hit a point where we need the traffic time to get into work  
and that's where we stopped  
it was the same problem  
but i think plano's  
i got [layed] off by t i  
oh i  
no  
i was working at the dallas site  
my ex husband was working downtown  
but i have uh no t i as far as i concerned they've been great as far as layoffs is concerned  
so i have no problems  
but as far as the housing i would like personally i would like to move out of a four bedroom house and go with something smaller  
but prices in plano there isn't um there isn't a section in plano you can really move to without getting caught  
and uh it my price right now for what i pay  
well carol since today's subject is our homes  
why don't you tell me about yours  
well i i certainly hope so  
we have a a classic ranch up in denton  
ranch style home i i would hate to think that anybody thought uh the lot we live on as a ranch  
uh it's in a subdivision and one story  
it started out life as a three bedroom house and now has no two car garage and has uh the two extra rooms enclosed  
i suppose we still only have three effective bedrooms  
but we gained a playroom for the kids and an office out of [enclosing] the garage  
almost a hundred percent  
i i can't think of any four bedroom houses in the subdivision  
ours is probably the closest to it  
you know how [realtors] are  
they'll say oh this could be five bedrooms  
yeah  
if you had two people that don't have any clothes it could be a five bedroom house  
don't need a closet  
uh cathedral ceilings  
well i hadn't thought about it in that sense of the high roofs  
we have cathedral ceilings in uh two rooms in the uh family room and in the master bedroom  
and those are are pleasant  
yeah  
right  
if it's the kind of river i'm thinking of better them than than us you know  
are you talking about a a real river creek  
well that's nice  
uh i came from mississippi recently  
and the rivers that we had there were the ones that came with the rains  
and they didn't pay any any attention to banks and that kind of stuff  
so you're just as likely to wake up and discover you're in two inches of water  
uh it's a third of an acre  
i don't think that's a lot uh  
in fact i have been real disappointed in the six years that i've lived out here about lot sizes  
i'm more accustomed to a one acre lot being a standard and the two acre being what most people have  
that's true  
an and while while there are some advantages to that there's less time spent outside making it look nice and taking care of things  
uh i just feel [hemmed] in by that  
it's not as comfortable a living for me  
entirely  
from that aspect you're right  
and and it doesn't take nearly as long to get out there and weed it by hand and that kind of stuff  
no  
the one  
that's sort of what drove me to denton   when i first came out here in eighty five  
i started looking  
and it seemed like the further i got away from dallas center uh the more lot came with the house and and the lower the price at the same time  
and it just seemed like there was a ten thousand dollar drop for each city  
so moving up thirty five i stopped when i got to denton uh  
you all both you all both work downtown  
oh well this is a wonderful thing that that you're doing here still helping them out  
uh but you were working downtown  
oh  
yes  
i live in dallas  
yeah  
i think right now it's it's kind of bad uh  
i don't live in a house  
i live in an apartment  
are are you in a house  
okay  
uh_huh  
well i guess the best i can do is is uh compare apartments  
if it can compare the one that i have now   with the one that i had the last time the one that i have now uh has a lot more amenities i guess is the right word than the one that i moved out of  
uh this one you know gave us free cable and uh ceiling fans  
and uh it was practically new when i moved in here  
and the carpet was new  
and  
no  
it's not a high rise  
it's just a a two story building  
uh but there's you know there there are a lot of buildings  
but it's just two stories  
uh on the second floor they have they don't have a patio  
but they have a [sunroom] instead of the patio  
on the first floor um where i am there's a patio  
yeah  
the rooms are nice and large  
and let's see i have i have two bedrooms  
and uh  
well i i i have a washer and dryer area  
and i i did buy the washer and dryer  
but they didn't provide it  
the one that i moved from didn't didn't have a place to put them  
and that's one of the reasons that i did move  
yeah  
get tired of dragging clothes to the [laundromat]  
so tell me  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it just   it's a real good  
yeah  
it's a good time to buy   if you're in the market  
uh_huh  
oh so you want a bigger one  
uh_huh  
one thing about the houses in uh in dallas they don't uh utilize basements the way they did in new york  
my parents in new york had uh a uh three family house  
actual a  
two family house where the the um the downstairs and the second floor they had  
and then they rented the third floor with the whole apartment you know  
and uh they had a basement  
and they you know they finished the basement  
and they were able to rent that out also  
but uh in dallas i i just i just haven't seen basements in houses  
and i've looked at a lot of them you know  
no  
it's  
right  
i haven't i haven't i have yet to see a basement in a house  
and uh  
well no  
no  
no  
no  
you know i don't see that kind of sand here um  
there are some areas though where where they have a problem with uh the houses kind of sinking a little bit   into the to the uh  
or the foundation is sinking or something you know just a little just a little bit some more than others  
but you you have to know the right spot   to to pick where that doesn't happen  
and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i see  
huh  
where did you say you're at colorado  
virginia  
virginia  
that's right  
anywhere near uh virginia beach  
oh  
uh_huh  
well different areas in dallas have different kind  
in uh in texas i'll say  
because down in east texas there's a lot of red clay  
and uh in the in the dallas you know fort worth city areas you don't see that  
yeah  
well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
well  
i see  
uh_huh  
so is your house in an area by itself  
i mean  
it's not connected to another one  
oh  
but it's not they're not connected are they  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
all right  
so uh you live in dallas  
now i understand that um the the real estate market out there has really gone crazy up and down up and down  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we have a single family home in northern virginia just outside of washington  
huh  
do you live in the high rise  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
so so you just you have one floor all to yourself  
oh okay  
oh that's nice  
do you get your own washer dryer  
oh  
yeah  
that is nice  
yeah  
yeah  
i've always uh been pretty lucky  
the real estate out here's been pretty good  
it uh the the prices of well the prices came down last year  
we've we had sort of like a dallas syndrome  
the past uh uh year and a half prices have gone down which is totally new for northern virginia  
it just never happened before  
so it's really surprising everybody  
all the [developers] don't know what to do  
yeah  

we're uh we actually have our house on the market because we have two kids  
and we have a three bedroom house  
and it's pretty much filled up right now  
yeah  
uh_huh  
get an extra bedroom or a basement  
right now it's just a a single level [rambler]  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
a friend of mine was thinking about coming down there  
and that's what he said was that you know it just wasn't something that people had down there  
they put pools and garages on   but uh no basements  
huh  
maybe it's all the sand  
is there a lot of sand in  
i always think it's like a desert  
i don't know  
dallas always  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well out here we um we live in what used to be uh like a prairie or whatever a natural you know natural [grasslands]  
and uh they  
it's just you go down four inches  
and you get to well fourteen inches you get to [sandstone]  
and so any place where they put a basement in they had to blast  
it's just solid [sandstone]  
no  
virginia  
yeah  
it's sort of unusual really  
most of virginia is clay  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my uh my folks used to live there  
back before i was born   they lived there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well uh texas is a big state  
so i imagine the the type of houses and uh things like that are truly different from area to area  
but uh that's the same way out here  
because um well we for example and we live fifteen miles from the beltway that surrounds washington  
and anything instead that beltway the highway the real [estate's] forty thousand dollars more expensive  
so you know you really can't afford i i i could never afford a house inside the beltway  
that's why we came out here  
this is called the the the country you know with only you know maybe twenty miles total from d c twenty five   from the city  
but um it's considered the country since it's uh you know that far out  
but um yeah  
we live out by dulles airport  
yeah  
and uh that's one of the few places still in northern virginia  
they have trailer parks that are down around the corner from here  
and you know it's it's still pretty rural  
uh not too much of northern virginia is like that anymore  
land has gotten so expensive  
they just can't afford to have low income housing like that  
no  
we're in a development  
there's uh  
yeah  
there's another one half an acre away   or a quarter acre away rather  
oh no  
huh_uh  
you have to uh stay in one single family home  
i sort of got spoiled with that when i was growing up  
uh my folks um had an apartment for a while when we were kids  
but um for the most part they they always had you know  
and pennsylvania always had a single family home  
and so   you know as soon as we could we we got a single family home  
and that's all i ever knew growing up  
so i stayed in a townhouse for uh two years and then uh saved up enough money to to get a  
uh right  
well we try  
i mean it's a big mortgage in the sky  
and someday maybe we might even own it  
but um for all practical purposes i guess we hold the mortgage  
yeah  
right  
no one else has offered to pay for it  
yeah  
really they could move right into the spare room  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
oh five years ago  
yeah  
yeah  
it well  
i mean just recently i would say i would give it two years back when it was i think [bottomed] out  
but maybe not in your area  
see it was just different areas  
that's a really nice area  
besides it's you know it's not it's not richardson is it  
it's still considered garland  
oh ok  
yeah  
there you go  
write that one down  
it sounded good to me  
right  
uh okay  
oh no  
oh gee  
i i   kept thinking of [omar] [sharif] every time i saw that name somewhere  
so  
uh  
oh wow  
right  
oh great  
well   yeah  
probably eighty  
sixty eighty  
well because i know our our little house over here stuck in the middle of you know the subdivision is i think fifty five  
so i think the high end is definitely you know somewhere there  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
um the ones that look like brick houses  
right  
yeah  
i think those are awful  
i'm sorry  
i just don't see the [designer's]  
i just see him as trying to squish as much space you know as much house into the space as possible  
yeah  
uh  
well see that's  
the house that we got is small enough so my husband and i  
because there's just the two of us  
and the two cats um can yell at each other from one end to the other and be heard  
and we thought that was important instead of getting [swallowed] up in something that you know  
yeah  
that's true  
oh  
yeah  
oh that's amazing  
right now in fact even as we speak we are having a deck put on in back  
and these guys are phenomenal  
they just they they are doing such a terrific job back there  
i mean you know you pay for it too  
but it's it's like really worth it  
they are putting in a deck   a redwood deck  
and it's just they are doing such a fine fine job  
i'm really excited about it  
uh_huh  
great  
yeah  
uh  
looks like the george town [brownstone]  
yeah  
must be a dream  
yeah  
oh  
i can't  
he has no insulation probably  
oh my  
gosh  
what a trap huh  
and you ask the right questions and can research  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i do too  
but still um it's worth it for the area and for the school and things like that  
there you go  
first question  
do you own your house  
our name is on the till  
so that [implies] ownership  
that's right  
i would not object if anybody did  
yeah  
well we have we have had this one for five years now  
before that we lived in garland uh probably about you know four blocks away  
liked the area chose to stay inside of spring park  
it's a uh  
i don't know if you have been up here  
but it is a residential homeowners   association  
so there's a lot of you know activities a lot of pluses and common land  
but uh we thought we were buying at the bottom of the market you know  
it could not possibly have gone any lower  
and so we were wrong  
yeah  
i think  
what  
it bottom out about a year later  
oddly enough two years you know  
i uh i think that  
not in in uh this area  
cause this is about like the  
yeah  
no  
it's it's richardson  
it's richardson  
and hold on a second  
paul i can hear you perfectly perfectly well  
i don't want to hear you  
you are being rude  
whatever you ask or scream when i'm on the phone the answer is no  
do you understand  
how does that sound  
yeah  
there i go  
yeah  
well i hate to say how long that will last too  
no  
this area up here is uh all custom homes  
and   it's  
i don't think that many by the builder that built this house  
and we were not the first people the first owners  
i think we are the third owners  
it was built by the architect for himself who never moved into it who sold it to a couple who had no idea that homes ever needed upkeep  
oh yeah  
[caulking] windows was a great mystery to them  
so they just watched the water pour in on the carpet  
but it's a [sharif] [myneer] homes if that means anything  
it did not really mean anything to me except   i liked it  
he builds eight hundred thousand dollar houses now  
i think he got out of the lower end market   and decided  
but the houses here in in this class of housing never dropped below two hundred  
yeah  
well but still i know that this one was built for two ninety nine which is nowhere near what we paid for it  
and i think somebody told me it's also on a creek side lot heavily wooded off the golf course  
yeah  
and the guy around the corner is being transferred  
so he said uh well he did [comparables] that it's about eighty dollars  
let's see what  
i don't remember if he said it was sixty dollars a square foot   off the creek and eighty on the creek   or if it was eighty and a hundred  
i think it was sixty eighty  
i think  
well try and think if it was a hundred dollars a square foot  
no  
it could not be  
because this house has around thirty four hundred square feet  
and it would never sell for three hundred forty thousand dollars  
just never  
now maybe you know that's pretty close to what it would have sold for uh brand new  
or that's pretty much what it was built for  
it's got an awful lot of nice things in it  
but you know i don't think i think it's going to be a long time if ever when nice things and really quality construction and all the other additional amenities are really uh desirable  
it's seems like people go for square footage only now  
and uh cause have you been back to the perry homes back here  
the one that looks like monopoly apartments  
they are huge when you are inside them  
they are very [spacious]  
they are you know  
i was i was in one today  
it was forty two hundred square feet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
see when you have kids you like to be able to   send them some place where they can yell and you won't hear them  
but i have been watching these houses go up  
and i i don't well  
somebody was telling me  
i know somebody who lives back there  
i have always questioned the quality of construction  
and i i don't think they exceed more than twelve nails per house  
when you watch them go up you are just amazed that they do not fall over  
and it takes them something like thirty days to complete a house  
uh_huh  
we have got   three different levels of decking because   this lot [slopes] way back down  
and uh the house is built around the trees  
and with these decking that a corporation and a large area for the trees to come up  
so it's real real shady  
but that's one of the few things that really uh immediately pays back on return  
but what i was going to tell you these perry homes back there  
when the people from m c i come down  
and they are you know they are used to the virginia area metropolitan d c  
my god they come down here and those houses that that look the colonial look what the  
right  
and uh the idea of ever owning anything that has four thousand square feet in it for less than two hundred twenty thousand dollars   which is probably about what their equity is that they got out of selling their house  
because those things are selling like hot cakes  
but one of the people that was living back there was telling me that there is his air conditioning bill per month last summer was in excess of five hundred dollars   a month  
and i thought  
and he was talking about how you keep up with the utilities here  
and i was thinking well you know i know why your god damn bill is so high  
it's because there's not a there's no insulation insulation in those things  
yeah  
any yet you know  
they they show very well they show very well unless you have you know lived in a lot of houses around the area   or looked at a lot of houses around here  
and i think that makes a big difference  
but i like i like this area  
and everything that i have been saying   says that it's  
i think if we had to sell now we could come close to breaking even  
you're in you're in the  
well basically uh did you want to go first then  
okay  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think as far as like our home it's uh in a small residential area  
we're out of the cities quite a ways  
so it's kind of more of a country setting  
and uh it's just a typical uh three bedroom type of home  
it's it's nothing you know elaborate where it has uh this or this or you know  
it's it's   just a typical home with uh three bedrooms uh two story type home  
uh and i think as far as if it's for put it into standards of uh what other homes are around here it would be just about fitting right into the middle part of where the homes are  
uh there's a river across from us which has more elaborate homes  
and yet there's  
where we can view the river from that distance there's still homes within our area that are you know pretty typical of what our home is  
so   it's uh pretty much that uh type of uh home  
so  
uh   uh_huh  
oh really  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so it's the [rambler] style  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's kind of like what ours is  
uh one of our bedrooms is really small  
and we've made that into a den because we only have one child  
so that was our best way of going with uh the small bedrooms because they are making bedrooms smaller and smaller  
it seems like they get incredibly small  
uh but uh anyway but okay  
so that sounds great  
and uh i don't know if we need to talk any more or whatever  
the t i  
uh yes  
uh about three times before  
i'm fairly new to it  
but it seems to be going okay  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
i'm out of state  
i'm in wisconsin  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
so it's  
uh other than that sure yeah  
is this your first time  
uh_huh  
i'm always the one that [initiates] the calls because i kind of like it because it's like i can get it done with  
i don't have to wait until somebody calls me even though i have a feeling what's going to happen is i'll probably get tons of calls you know so sooner or later  

uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
okay  
well you take it easy gail  
bye now  
uh well i can  
i i don't own my home  
uh i mean i i live in a nice area  
and i rent my home  
and   uh we aren't sure we're going to buy a house yet because we don't know if we're going to be staying here   in uh texas  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well our   our house we we're renting it from an individual who bought it  
and he lives in korea  
and uh he's recently moved here  
and he's owns eight or nine properties   uh near here  
and uh so  
but the houses around here there's five five houses on my street for sale right now   which is just uh in trouble   to me  
and they're not very expensive either  
it just seems like  
we have a three bedroom house  
ours is one level only  
uh but we  
yeah  
we have two two living areas and a dining room and a big kitchen  
and   the bedrooms are a little bit small except the master [bedroom's] a little bigger  
so  
yeah  
have you have you done this before  
uh_huh  
oh have you  
yeah  
are you in texas  
no  
yeah  
oh really  
oh  
sounds interesting  
no  
huh_uh  
i've well i've gotten several calls  
uh but uh   yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well they've i've talked to some people from cleveland  
and i did talk to someone   else who lives here   in the same city i do  
so   that was kind of interesting  
they're they're sure getting their people out  
so well   it was nice to talk to you anyway  
and  
okay  
thanks  
bye bye  
all righty  
what type of home do you have in dallas  
uh_huh  
oh good  
and it's probably typical of your neighborhood  
i'm in plano just you know north of where you live  
and uh we live near coit and legacy in a relatively new development that just has gone in about two years ago  
so my home is typical  
it's a a brick home  
a two story brick home  
and it's typical of of the other homes in our neighborhood too  
yes  
yes  
the the one thing we did do instead of having a twenty foot living room ceiling  
we're from the north  
and we just couldn't stand the wasted space  
so we had them  
we have a high entry hall  
and then we had them level off our living room and dining room ceiling to um nine feet so we could get bedrooms above  
so that way we we sort of have the [entryway] that looks typical of the area  
but we don't have so much wasted space  
and we could get more bedrooms per square foot that way  
mine are actually the lowest in the neighborhood  
yeah  
yes  
right  
i know  
our air conditioner during the summer we  
it's over three fifty a month  
yeah  
just to air condition it  
so  
i have uh a master bedroom and a den on the main floor  
and then upstairs i have three bedrooms  
and i have  
i'm a writer  
and i work in my home  
so   above the garage area i have a studio  
so it's not really a bedroom  
it doesn't have a closet  
and it   and it's the size of a three car garage  
so that's where i work  
yes  
yes  
so we  
this is our dream home  
and we just absolutely   love it  
i  
yeah  
we're we're really proud of it  
i just hope we never have to move again  
this is  
uh detroit this last time  
we were there two years  
and  
oh we love it  
yes  
and they're much   much better constructed down south than they are up north too  
the  
uh_huh  
the quality of the [workmanship] we noticed a tremendous difference  
up north they just kind of throw them together because we had homes built in in detroit also  
and they just didn't care  
if the trim work didn't line up it's just that's just what you get  
oh  
yes  
well the carpenter and painter and you know everybody the marble man were just there in the house everyday when we would come to check on it as it was being built  
and they'd say just look at this  
and you know   they seemed so proud of everything they did  
and it really made a difference to us  
yes  
oh  
yes  
uh_huh  
that's important too  
uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
yeah  
ours is pretty much level in the two years   that we've been there  
we're hoping it takes off again  
but   i don't know with the e d s building and [penny's] and everything going in up on legacy we're hoping that brings in more people  
that's what we're hoping because   we're we're just real close to to where that is  
so  
uh_huh  
i hope so too  
yes  
yeah  
yes  
i'm sure  
for that reason it can stay the same  
but   but we love being where we are  
okay  
we have a uh four bedroom split brick home in in richardson actually  
and uh we bought it back in about nineteen seventy three  
so we've seen it go up in value wise real well  
yes  
yes  
yes  
it it looks like all the others  
it's uh  
uh_huh  
oh i know where that is yeah  
yes  
you're in the the styles that they have started building in the last couple years with the real high ceilings  
and uh_huh  
those are lovely  
oh  
oh nice  
yes  
have you um found in talking to your neighbors that your utilities are quite a bit higher with those high ceilings  
are they  
uh_huh  
well i would expect so  
i have wondered about the cooling and the heating   especially the cooling  
wow  
uh_huh  
well how many bedrooms do you have in your home  
oh uh_huh  
oh how nice huh  
uh_huh  
that's a pretty good size room  
that's neat  
well it sounds like a real nice one  
right  
where did you move from  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you like the dallas area  
and i would imagine that you have found that the homes down here are uh a much better value down here   aren't they than they are  
oh really  
now that's interesting  
uh_huh  
that's interesting because i've heard so many people down here say that they don't feel like the quality of the homes you know are that good down here  
and uh so that's interesting  
well that's good  
well i know as i as i said our house is about seventeen years old  
and uh we've been very pleased with it  
we've had no major problems with it  
knock on wood  
and uh you know it is with uh with the you know two children growing up and now three grandsons [roaming] through it   all the time  
so and we like our neighborhood  
it it   has has grown  
and the majority of the people you know keep up the neighborhood  
and that's very important  
and and as i said it it has [risen] in value  
but we bought back when housing was so low  
and you know and now you know  
then it started jumping by leaps and bounds  
it seems to have leveled off and actually dropped back down a little bit  
but we're still fine  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
it should bring up your property values a little bit  
your pricing  
uh_huh  
i think once the economic situation in the dallas area   [improves] i think the housing will go up  
you know right now there's a lot on the market for sale because of people having lost their jobs   and everything  
so that's you know that keeps prices down   and value down  
and i'm sure the packs uh or  
would like for it to go up  
that's right  
that's right  
okay  
so you said that you live in coppell  
so what is your house like  
oh well that's neat  
uh_huh  
is it one you're renting or buying  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's kind of neat that you can   even though it's a duplex you can still buy  
that's good  
do you have any children  
yes  
i have two children  
and our home is really too small for us right now  
yeah  
we moved from an apartment   that was really small  
and at the time we just had a little baby that was five months old  
so we moved into this house in garland  
it's in one of the older areas of town  
and one thing i really like is it has big trees everywhere  
you know lots of shade and squirrels and birds and   real pretty  
but the the house is real small  
it has less than a thousand square feet  
yeah  
it's real little  
yeah  
and now i have a daughter  
now my  
the one that was five months old is seven years old  
and the one i have another one that's three and a half   and have all these clothes and   toys and stuff that we're just trying to find places to put  
well they advertised it as a three bedroom house   because it has a built on addition room you know  
but the room that's built on doesn't have a closet  
so um the people that lived here before us did use it for a bedroom  
but we have always just put like our computer and extra toys and books and  
you know it's kind of a catch all room  
but it sure is nice to have it   when the kids come over to play  
they all go out there to play with the barbies   and that kind of stuff  
so  
yeah  
that works out good  
and i'm thankful i have two girls because they're in bunk beds  
and   so you know they can share a room   and uh make for more space that way  
she's three and a half  
yeah  
so um and right now we have their clothes on uh like double racks you know in the closet  
we made a higher and a lower  
and it works out fine  
but they're just about to get too tall   where the dresses are beginning to drag   you know  
and um we're going to have to figure out a new idea  
but we're we're kind of looking around and wanting to move into a bigger home   uh hoping to be able to do that within a year or so  
so that would be nice  
yeah  
is coppell a nice area to live  
well i think i've heard a lot uh about coppell schools that they're real good  
that's neat  
do you do you hope to have children  
or are you not planning on having any  
or  
i see  
well do you have any pets  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
well do they stay inside  
or  
well that's that's neat  
yeah  
well what are the colors in your house  
oh i bet that's pretty  
uh_huh  
oh that's neat  
i like cows too  
yeah  
well our house was uh  
our house is very old also  
it's like thirty seven years old  
yeah  
and it was redone before we moved in which  
i'm thankful for that  
but the  
it was redone at the time probably when earth [tones] were in  
everything is  
like the [carpet's] kind of a tan and brown   and has um paneling in the living room and lots of lots of [tans] and lots of browns  
but the good thing is you can bring out other colors from that  
you know so uh that's worked out good  
in the in the kitchen they put real pretty blue and tan um wallpaper   had done it up with blues  
so that's nice  
but   yeah  
yeah  
we've enjoyed living here  
it's close to my uh oldest daughter's school  
and that makes it really handy too  
and she really likes her school  
so  
and we are so close to shopping  
and  
yeah  
how about in coppell  
i've always imagined it kind of out away from everything  
oh really  
oh well that's nice  
oh wow  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
but it does sound like it's definitely growing  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
well when we first moved here we moved here from lubbock  
and we almost moved to lewisville  
that was   our second choice yeah behind garland  
we at the time we thought we might buy a mobile home  
uh_huh  
it's a two bedroom two baths duplex  
brick   and uh  
no  
we own it  
yeah  
well our side  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
huh_uh  
do you  
ours is too  
we outgrew it when we moved in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
oh wow  
you all are cramped  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
how many bedrooms is it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
how fun  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and how old's the youngest  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what we'd like to do  
oh it's a wonderful place to live  
and they  
i don't have any kids  
so i don't really know  
but they say that we have wonderful schools  
uh_huh  
um  
i don't think so  
no  
oh of course those are my kids  
i have two dogs  
yeah  
they're inside dogs  
they're my babies  
uh um kind of a [mauve] and gray  
uh_huh  
and then the [kitchen's] kind of a a country pink and country blue  
and   it's all done in cows  
i'm a cow nut  
uh_huh  
so  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh sounds pretty  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
good  
that's an important factor there  
well you know now we have that new mall in lewisville  
and that's just like a mile or two from our house  
but when we first moved to coppell it's what six years ago we didn't even have a grocery store  
and now we have four  
and [coppell's] not really big enough to support four grocery stores  
so  
oh much   very much  
in fact it's about the size now  
i moved down here from chicago what twenty three years ago   and to lewisville  
and [coppell's] now about the size that lewisville was when when i moved down here  
uh_huh  
oh really  
okay  
what kind of house do you live in  
uh_huh  
well it sounds like ours are pretty similar  
i live in one  
i don't have a swimming pool  
and mine's about twenty seven hundred square foot  
but the four bedrooms  
and all the rest of it sounds just about about alike  
i think it's pretty much typical for this area  
i've been in the house  
i'm in here right now about twelve and a half years  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i bet you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that sounds interesting  
i bet he's enjoyed having it that way  
because  
kind of hard to find one [prebuilt] that's kind of fits those specifications  
uh_huh  
well then most   of them don't have a three car garage  
they're kind of rare  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that  
my we've just got a two car garage  
but my husband's got a big space in between the where the cars are and the house where he has a big work shop you know [workbench] and everything  
now mine does not work on cars  
he just [piddles] on this and that  
but he likes to have a spot to keep all of his his [piddling] things  
it really is  
because you know they have a lot of things of their own  
and i you know i wouldn't mind having  
and i at one time was going to fix up when one of my daughters left a bedroom to where i had a room to just put all of my craft stuff and   sewing machine and all that kind of stuff  
but i someone  
i don't know  
it ended up i got some furniture back that one of them had moved out or something  
so i didn't end up with my vacant room like i had thought i would  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i still  
all three of my daughters are married  
but i don't know  
i just still have need for the four bedrooms just having company from time to time   and some of them coming back home and things you know  
and we've got grandchildren now  
so   when they come they have to have a place  
that's right  
you sure don't  
at times i keep thinking though that might be kind of nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i don't blame you for that  
well i have the three girls  
and then we ended up with four grandsons  
and little boys are around the house   a whole lot more than girls  
and uh i enjoy them coming but for short doses  
it feels  
after they've been here ten minutes they have already explored the entire house  
they know everything  
but they're fun  
well i just watch them  
i i never did put things up when my kids were little  
and i haven't with them  
i try to teach them not to get into things  
i think that once you do that your children kind of develop the same attitudes  
at least my daughters have  
they try to teach theirs not to get into things instead of having to put everything up  
so it's worked pretty well  
there's  
i don't really think anything's been broken  
every now and then we have to kind of go and say now don't bother this you know  
but all in all they mind pretty well  
but i guess most of the  

what kind of roof does your house have  
here i'm getting off the subject  
well uh we live in a a brick home in far north dallas  
and it's uh four bedrooms and three and a half baths and swimming pool in the back  
and   it's about thirty five hundred square feet  
yeah  
it is  
have you been living there very long  
so you've been there longer  
we built this one about uh  
it's been let's see it's been six years   six and a half years ago  
and we [subcontracted] it out ourselves  
we bought   the lot and uh had an architect draw the plans based on our specifications  
and then we [subbed] it out  
so we've been here a little over six years now and   uh have really enjoyed it because   we built what we wanted to have to live in  
my husband got his big garage  
he we have a three car garage that he has a big work area in  
and he likes to rebuild cars and redo engines  
and so he has all the work space he needs  
he  
it is  
and that's why we decided to build  
we looked   at things that were already uh built  
and the garages were always if the house was large it seemed like the garages were small even if they were three car garages which is   what we have  
uh_huh  
so we put a three car garage in  
but even if they had three car garages they didn't have a work space  
all of it was taken up with just car space  
and so he has a big landing area that's between where the cars are in the garage and where the house starts   that he can work on  
well sounds like our husbands have similar interests  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
well that's nice that it's not in your house  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well we still have a a son and daughter in college that come home  
and the other room we use as a guest bedroom because my husband's family come  
his parents come  
and also the kids have friends who come   and stay  
and so   it seems like it's always used as a bedroom  
right  
oh i understand  
well we  
that's true  
and you don't want them to not be able to come because there's no room  
well   i i haven't reached that point yet  
i've heard people say that  
but uh my middle son is engaged  
my oldest son has been going with the same girl for a while  
he's out of college   and has a good job  
so he could afford to get married   but is not engaged yet  
and my daughter's been going with the same boy for a while  
but she's still in college  
and we're just as happy for her to finish   her education first  
that's   what she plans to do  
so i hope so  
oh ho ho  
a whole new world  
uh_huh  
i can understand  
uh_huh  
so you're all back to the safety catches and the whole nine yards or either watching them every minute  
yeah  
well that's the same thing that i did  
i hope i'll be able to do the same with grandchildren  
um uh_huh  
well we have  
so what kind of a house do you live in  
uh_huh  
well our home is uh probably for our area it's probably one of the lower income homes out here  
uh most of the the homes that they're building  
well i shouldn't say all of them  
but most of them now are up in the millions of dollars  
oh yeah  
there's  
we have got about uh twenty i'd say about twenty four hundred  
uh we've got five bedrooms   because we built onto our garage  
a a bedroom for my mother  
and uh  
oh  
oh that's great  
well this this house is very comfortable  
we've got two living areas  
and that that's the thing i probably like the most about it  
it's just one story  
yeah  
it's a fox and jacobs home  
um we've been real happy with it  
of course i'm not a carpenter or anything like that  
they could probably come in and say gee this is not straight  
and this is under something  
but  
no  
no  
we haven't had a lot of problems with it at all  
no  
we've been real lucky  
so  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i i've heard a lot of people say that  
that's for sure  
uh we have an attic that we've just put you know plywood over the [beams] and things up in the attic  
and so that   has replaced it to some extent  
but certainly not  
uh in parts  
i mean you couldn't you really couldn't use it for a room  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
we uh we've got you know  
i'll store all our christmas stuff and whatever else junk up there  
two living areas  
we have a living room and dining room at the front of the house  
and then we have a the uh family room kitchen and playroom   at the rear of the house which has been really nice  
in fact i really enjoy the playroom that  
you would think that would not be a real bonus you know to a house  
but of all the rooms in the house i'd say that was that was the one that's been really nice to have  
i think that's true  
yeah  
probably our family room is the the biggest uh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's kind of the way our living room and dining room is  
but it is nice to have it because there's uh with our size of family it's nice to know that there's one that's always straight and clean if you have someone come   just on the spur of the moment  
so  
seventeen years  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
oh uh_huh  
yes  
it is  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well my husband wouldn't do that anyway  
that's his that's his  
worst thing in life is to have to repair something  
so  
well uh that's great  
we just kind of save everything for when al uh for for when his dad comes to visit  
and then he does all the repairing you know  
he does  
i'm in a uh in a ranch  
a uh  
it was about uh sixteen hundred square feet when i bought it  
and uh it's about two thousand square feet now  
but it's one of those typical uh ranches that you find around here  
oh it's uh built in the probably built in the late fifties  
so it's not um what you would find uh where you live  
but uh for the older uh ranch homes it's pretty typical i guess  
really  
how many square feet do you have  
four bedrooms  
five bedrooms  
uh_huh  
i made a i made a fourth bedroom out of uh a made a fourth bedroom out of one of our out of our living room and then added a uh what we call a [sunroom]   to get the you know  
when when we added four hundred square feet to our house  
so that  
how many stories  
just one  
how are they built  
yeah  
i've heard that  
i've heard the construction is pretty good on fox and jacobs  
but i mean it doesn't give you trouble  
uh_huh  
no cracked slab or anything like that  
all right  
and is it um a natural gas and  
you know what i miss though  
basements  
i i sure wish they could build basements in homes in texas  
so you  
can you stand up in it  
so you have a probably a more pitched roof than is typical around here  

ours is pitched so shallow that you uh don't get much room in the attic  
so five bedrooms and two living two family  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
isn't it funny how families end up living in one room in the house most of the time  
you  
right  
some people i mean  
families seem to [migrate] towards one one room and carry on most of their activities there  
and uh uh some rooms we have one room that we never use  
i mean might as well not even heat and cool it  
strange  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
so you've been fairly happy with it  
how long have you been in it  
wow  
boy it doesn't seem that long  
but it is because we uh came to this area about the same time  
we've been fifteen fifteen years in the in the house that we're living in  
and we the the principal feature i like about ours is that it's pier and beam  
yours is a slab i assume  
yeah  
ours is a pier and beam which has allowed me to go under it and do a whole lot of different things that i could not have done if it was slab  
i've done a lot of electrical and plumbing and other work that by myself and saved a lot of money that i couldn't have done if the house was on a slab  
but that's because it's so old  
it's thirty five thirty six years old when they used to build like that  
and uh  
i know  
he's not a handy  
right  
i on the other hand   uh do a lot too much of it  
and uh i've gotten good at it which in a in a way is bad because then you uh you start to take pleasure in it  
right  
my dad is actually uh  
hi  
my name is uh donna donahue  
and i live in plano texas  
oh okay  
um do you want to start  
or should i start  
okay um  
i would say that our home is a very typical home for the area that we live in  
we have um three children  
and um they attend the public school here and are very active in a lot of the sports soccer and baseball  
and well my little girl goes to tap dance  
and my little one goes to preschool  
and um i'm home with the children just do a lot of running around  
it seems like a lot of my neighbors kind of have a similar type i don't know life  
um what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
was sort of maintenance free  
yeah  
oh yeah  
well um that that sounds that sounds pretty good for  
i know my husband takes an awful lot of time on the weekends not so much now but to um maintain the lawn and the edging and the flower beds  
and it's a lot of work owning a home with a little bit of property attached to it  
it's  
sometimes i think um it would be nice to have a town home with not having all that responsibility  
right  
oh that sounds lovely  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so in in your area then there's probably a lot of um career type people that have those type homes  
and  
uh_huh  
and um the area that we're settled in is um definitely young young families with with kids  
they're still doing um a lot of building in the neighborhood  
so the people that move here seem to move from all over the country which we're from um the northeast  
and um seems like a people just don't or also don't have any family around  
so it um also gives you a common bond when you don't have a lot of relatives visiting your neighbors  
and you know um but um  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
now it's um is it very wooded around where you are  
there lots of pretty trees and  
yeah  
oh how pretty  
i do miss that  
around here in plano there are very few trees  
and it's pretty flat and and kind of [barren]  
and that's the only thing that we don't like about living in texas is we miss all the beautiful trees and the fall  
and and um uh the landscape is much different here in texas than it is you know in the north um or even where you are  
a lot of leaves to rake up too i bet  
does that  
well see that's another plus  
that's right  
that's right  
they are  
i'm going to get the kids to get outside with the other neighbor kids and do the little bit of raking that needs to be done  
we just have a few trees in the front and a few in the back but not not much just just a little kind of just in more of a make a little bit of a mess for a few weeks  
and if you didn't do anything about it then they'd probably the leaves just blow away  
it's not too bad  
okay  
do we have to speak for a certain amount of time  
okay  
okay  
it was really nice speaking to you  
okay  
and have a happy thanksgiving  
bye bye  
hello  
hi  
hi  
my name is lowell  
and i live in raleigh north carolina  
go right ahead  
i'm i'm single  
and i i live in a town home   here in raleigh  
and   it's pretty typical of the other town homes in the area  
we we have a lot of town homes here   as well as single family homes  
and at the time that i bought this one it was just a a much better arrangement for me personally  
i'm not home a lot  
i travel a great deal with   my job  
and so it was easier to have a home that didn't   exactly   that somebody else looks out for the maintenance  
it certainly is  
well if you ever get one be sure the walls are good and thick because if they're not you can hear  
i that's the main thing when i was shopping for one  
i wanted to make sure i could i couldn't hear my neighbors  
and that was  
so i bought one that's more like living in a  
once you're inside you don't know you're in a town home  
it is  
they're kind of built on a [catty] [cornered] instead of like side by side  
so you don't actually hear anybody next door to you  
yes  
definitely  
well we also in this area seem to have a lot of retirees   people who don't want the heat of florida but don't want the heat of the the cold of the northeast  
so   they settle sort of in between  
yes  
as a matter of fact this is a uh this particular community that i live in is very wooded  
it is nice  
uh we definitely have a lot of trees here  
yes  
but fortunately the home owner's association does all that  
yes  
i don't have to worry about that  
and this is the time of year we're starting to lose  
they're all falling now  
right  
no  
i don't think so  
it was good to speak with you too  
thank you  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
i'm in dallas texas  
what about yourself  
okay  
uh_huh  
no  
i've lived here for almost five years now  
and i'm a uh  
before that i was at school in rochester new york  
and i'm originally from boston  
that's right  
but i like it  
well i missed it at first  
but now i go back there  
and i'm a real [wimp] about the cold  
so   i like it here  
it's nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
uh tell me where that is uh  
i   i probably do know  
but i don't know it by that name  
okay  
sure  
oh okay  
yeah  
i know that area  
that's a nice area  
uh   oh that's quite a range  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i am uh i'm gosh i'm barely in dallas  
i'm just north of addison airport   up on the tollway  
and i guess we have a similar situation  
i mean we've got houses two streets away that are probably around seventy eighty thousand  
and then we've got bent tree right across the street  
so i don't   i don't even know how high those go  
but some of those are pretty big  
yeah  
so it's that's the strange thing about i guess dallas because back where i'm from you wouldn't have that sort of a variation at all  
they'd all be pretty similar to one another within a a couple miles  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've noticed that  
uh_huh  
uh we've got a house  
let's see  
we moved in about four years ago  
and it was it had previously been [unoccupied]  
but it had existed for three years  
this is a whole block of homes that uh a builder built all of them  
and i guess he he did some crazy thing to get some extra money from the bank and then ran away   type of deal  
so the whole block was all [foreclosed]  
and so some were vacant for quite a while before they you know they finally sold them because there were so many  
yes  
no  
the only thing that we were worried about was the air conditioner because they'd have it just running constantly with the doors and windows open  
but  
yeah  
so we just you know we bargained to get an extra [warrantee] on that  
and uh we're really we haven't had any problems  
and you know we had originally thought we'd have to get a fix up special or something because being from the northeast we figured we couldn't afford anything  
but the prices are much lower here  
and this was definitely not a fix up special  
but i'll tell you  
it takes all my time  
between we put in our own sprinkler system  
and i just finished repainting the exterior and you know making drapes and buying furniture  
it's just a money pit really is  
so   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
okay  
i guess we're ready to start  
well i guess what part of what part of the country do you live in  
oh okay  
well i'm also in dallas  
the reason that i ask is the two conversations i've had have been out of state  
but uh have you always lived here in dallas  
and  
i see  
oh well you are seeing quite a different climate and quite a different neighborhood  
you probably have enjoyed getting away from the snow  
yeah  
well that's good  
i i have lived in texas essentially all my life  
around in texas  
and uh i have traveled up in the northeast and around and have enjoyed it  
but uh i don't know  
i'm not sure i would want to take on those winters  
i'm   getting older and uh not sure that's something i want to do  
i live uh over in the lake highlands area if you're familiar with that  
okay  
uh you  
this is pretty well where l b j and [audelia] skillman   cross  
we're just north of uh white rock lake  
well we have some very nice homes here in this area  
uh my particular  
i guess they want us to describe the area  
so uh   my particular area the homes run anywhere from about sixty five eighty thousand dollars on up to probably half a million  
yes  
uh the homes that were here earlier were smaller  
now they've gotten larger and larger as as they have developed the land  
and of course it's pretty static right now  
and all the values over here have dropped off because of the economy  
how about you  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
okay  
yes  
those are over a million  
well we have suffered from real lack of land use planning in dallas  
not as bad as houston  
but exactly what you're describing is what happens all over  
well now do you live in a a home or   zero lot home  
or  
okay  
oh  
well your was your house in good shape  
was it damaged  
oh it was  
oh  
i see  
yes  
i am   familiar with that  
i where i live is a house that's seventeen years old when i bought it  
and we bought it from someone who was in it  
but before they had it i found out after i had been in the house it it had sat empty for the better part of a year  
and i'm not sure what happened  
but i do know the folks that we bought it from had done virtually no maintenance for for about four years  
i i i found a lot of things  
but  
well tell me about your home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
it sounds nice  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well you know these guys that [gambled] high   lost big you know  
and uh   i'm [insulating] myself from that problem  
i'm building my own house  
and as i look out the window of my trailer i can envision all the insulation that's going up today  
yeah  
yeah  
i used to be a builder  
and i retired about five years ago and   started college  
and now i'm a college educated builder  
there's still no work you know  
so uh you know i decided this summer that uh you know we had enough credit on the credit cards to buy the materials  
so i did  
and uh see the the the state has a law that says you cannot borrow the money to build your own home  
you can borrow the money to pay somebody else to build your house  
but you can't borrow the money to build your own  
well it's to protect the the banks from guys that say yeah i want to build my own house and go out a build a [spec] home  
and then it doesn't sell  
and then the [bank's]   holding the bag  
well  
as as you know anything that involves the government is works half as well as it's supposed to costs three times as much right  
[hence] the savings and loan problem we have  
but uh you know my home is uh fairly simple  
it's designed to be added on to  
yeah  
well i figure it's just me and my wife  
but you know i like to do stuff with my hands and whatnot  
so i want   to have a shop  
ten acres  
well yeah  
it's really nice too because i can't see my nearest neighbor  
he's on the other side of a hill  
and my second nearest neighbor is a dot on the horizon  
seriously  
well in the winter time i can see see another guy  
but you know he's  
i can just make out his place you know   i've got a thirty mile view to the east and about ten miles to the north  
and uh  
yeah  
well i took a lot of time in choosing this site   because the the house has no heating or air conditioning  
well it's got a a very small [furnace]  
and a uh we'll use a wood burning stove as well  
but in the house itself i've been working inside you know these these many months  
and i have not had to use the heat  
because it's all [geothermal]  
and with all the  
see i've got  
on the south side is all glass  
well as much as i could get in it you know   and uh the east side is glass  
i've got one two three four five six windows in the east side on forty eight feet  
so it's almost all glass  
and uh  
oh yeah  
i mean you know   there's no place in the house where you can stand and not see four windows  
so uh  
well not really  
it's uh it's on the side of a hill  
so the first you know  
the the the  
what i call residential level   at the side that's in the hill is about four feet deep  
and the side that's on the uh the other side is about six feet high  
so i've got a pretty good grade there  
and then when i put the [verandas] which will be twelve feet out all the way around on the north south and east sides   that will define the shop  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh right now we're living in  
well it's me my wife and uh two young boys  
and uh right now we're in a uh i guess it's either a zero lot line or a garden home   which you might call it  
so we don't have a a big yard uh  
but uh when my wife and i first moved in it was just the two of us  
so it was enough  
uh and it's uh i guess what they call a story and a half  
because it's not a full two story   where you know everything on top is on bottom  
so it's got real high ceilings on half the house  
and the other half is just standard sized ceilings  
and uh it's about a five year old house now  
it's uh pretty nice  
unfortunately the builder who built it went out of business already  
yeah  
it was a  
landmark is the one who built it  
yeah  
that's true  
exactly what happened to them  
oh that's nice  
oh really  
are you doing it yourself  
wow  
oh that's nice  
oh i see  
huh  
yeah  
that's great  

is that so  
i didn't know that  
well that sounds kind of dumb  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
that's right  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
that's good  
yeah  
how big a lot do you got it on  
wow  
that's nice  
that's real nice  
oh  
god  
that's pretty good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that's pretty good  
uh_huh  
oh you you you don't plan on putting any any of that in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
that's pretty good  
yeah  
wow  
my wife would love that  
she loves lots of windows  
that's great  
is it a single story  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
um i see  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's kind of like like a victorian style  
yeah  
i i've always liked that  
the  
you know i we don't have much yard  
but i built a small deck in the back  
but you know i i see these magazines where you know dig your your own deck  
i i kind of wish i had them those size property and and uh one with a grade on it so i can build a real nice deck  
okay  
uh do you live in a home  
uh_huh  
oh did you  
uh_huh  
we've lived in ours for about six years  
we had it built actually  
and uh uh it's our first home too  
yeah  
um well before we built our home we were managing some apartments that   we were living in  
and um that was quite an experience  
i i much prefer having my own home and and uh just the space and and more privacy  
yeah  
um it's uh uh it's like twenty four fifty square feet  
it's a two story  
yeah  
how about yours  
is it small  
oh really  
oh uh_huh  
do you do you have children  
just one  
oh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well like um how does it compare to the ones in your neighborhood  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh  
yeah  
it it   it it does it it seems about oh probably average um  
but our neighborhood has a just a wide variety of of um people  
and you know there's older people here and and um people that are our our age  
we're in our thirties  
and um there's a lot of kids a lot of kids  
people across the street have eight  
uh_huh  
yeah  
their home just burned down   matter of fact and um last summer  
and they're just rebuilding  
and um their house is going to be really big  
it's  
yeah  
they're building a lot bigger  
he's uh um uh-oh not an [obstetrician] an an orthopedic surgeon  
and um so since the house did burn they're they're going  
it's quite different than it was before  
and it's   it's a lot bigger  
and um but ours is about  
it's you know it's a nice home  
it's definitely not one of the the smaller ones  
and um it's not the biggest either  
but  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
you  
you know that's interesting  
you say that because we do have we have those [architectural] codes here  
and when we um put out house in um they wanted us to have  
there was one  
we have part siding   on on the two story part and then   on the back  
and they there was one side where our [chimney] was  
and just the [chimney] was going to be brick  
and they wanted us to have more brick  
so we ended up having to go halfway up  
which it does look nicer  
and you know we would have like to have had all brick  
but of course at that point we couldn't afford it  
and but it's funny that you'd say that because there were homes in here that didn't have any brick at all  
so it's kind of like they were  
yeah  
yeah  
and i and so it was kind of like it's they  
ours is the last street that they built on  
so the houses actually on our street are a little bit they're kind of gone a little bit nicer  
yeah  
i mean just   they you know  
it's like the second phase  
and and so they've kind of changed the the codes a little bit  
and so that's kind of why i guess they stuck us with more brick when there were   other homes that didn't have any  
oh uh_huh  
yes  
we we it's a house we bought uh about two and a half years ago now  
uh_huh  
first house  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so what do you think of of owning a home as opposed to to renting somebody else's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you have is it a fairly large house  
oh that's pretty good size  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's tiny  
it's not much bigger  
actually we had an apartment two bedroom apartment that was about as big as this house is  
so  
yeah  
it's uh it's only like eleven hundred square feet  
just one  
yeah  
but it it uh all the rooms are small i mean  
but it ends up giving us three bedrooms which we wanted and uh use an extra one for an office   which is handy  
i'd rather have have more rooms and less space in each one i guess rather have lots of rooms and lots of space  
but uh that ends up costing me  
well they're it's pretty typical i mean it's a very very middle class neighborhood  
uh lots of lots of young couples with you know oh  
i'm sure that virtually everybody in the neighborhood that's their first homes  
and uh lots of kids and stuff  
and so it it fits well in the neighborhood  
it's it's certainly not a real upscale neighborhood  
but on the other hand it's clean and kind of suburban   little bit more than i want  
is is yours also   pretty much in [conformance] with the neighborhood  
or is it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow eight kids  
oh my gosh  
ooh  
i'm sure with eight  
gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
new ones i mean they they tend to to be real tiny but that uh especially in newer neighborhoods  
my my brother just built a new house  
he lives in wichita kansas  
and the um the neighborhood actually fought him on it  
because he he was um the house was going to cost less to build than any other house in the neighborhood  
now that's because he was he's doing a lot of it himself   and you know for example landscaping and and lots of the other stuff  
and his house actually ended up being nicer than lots in the neighborhood  
but   but they were they were pretty touchy on it  
he was a little surprised  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
kind of depends on when they get in you know  
oh they have  
it's gotten  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
well see my sister kind of got in the opposite end of that because they they moved into a neighborhood and bought a a real nice stone house down in south austin  
and uh and the what the builder apparently plans to do is they they do phase one  
and they kind of give it a very upscale and very [tightly] controlled uh codes and and and stuff  
and then they come back in  
and and then they sell  
did you hear our topic  
it's in regards to discussing homes  
yeah  
i'm settled in a place  
i've been in it for twelve years since nineteen uh actually thirteen years since nineteen seventy eight  
and it's in richardson texas which is north texas   or north dallas  
and we've lived in two houses in richardson  
we moved here in seventy four and uh changed locations in seventy eight  
how about yourself  
yeah  
it's a nice area  
are you finding it tough trying to find what you want  
or  
oh boy  
right  
sure  
no  
we're settled  
and uh   we're uh  
i'm probably older than you  
i'm fifty two  
but anyway i my youngest is getting married this year   graduating college  
so i can board up their rooms   and look forward to retirement maybe  
oh gosh  
so we're looking forward to retiring in about three years and   maybe relocating to florida or somewhere   closer closer to our families  
no  
from west virginia  
but everyone's uh my wife's parents are from the new york new jersey area  
so but everyone seems uh has seem to relocated down that area  
seems like a nice place to go  
oh i   understand  
you need very minimum four and probably five  
right  
it's tough   to find a five and six room bedroom house isn't it  
oh i know  
seems like you get in that category you're in the three hundred thousand dollar homes or whatever  
and it's   that's an awful lot you know  
right  
just   matter   of looking  
right  
lot of people will buy in your situation will buy a four bedroom house and convert maybe the garage or something or the or do something  
i had a young lady used to work for me at my office from the high school  
and she had uh there were seven kids in her family  
and they converted the dining room and   did this and that  
but they always seemed to get along fine you know  
oh sure  
oh i know  
and it's there's nothing harder than that  
i always just sort of a assign my wife that chore  
then i would let her narrow it down to three or four  
then i'd go look because women seem to like to look a lot more than men do  
yes  
why certainly  
i   understand that  
i'm in the uh sporting goods business  
i'm a manufacturer's rep  
i represent fourteen different hunting and shooting type companies  
what who are you with  
uh_huh  
well great  
how how was the uh  
you say you lived in the denver area before  
how did that compare with this area as far as housing prices  
no kidding  
homes  
yes sir  
uh_huh  
what are are you settled in a place  
right  
uh_huh  
okay  
well we uh left here in seventy six  
uh we were here for a few years  
then we uh have come back just this summer  
right now we're looking for housing uh somewhere down in the duncanville and cedar hill area  
are you familiar with that  
yeah  
it is  
the kids are in school here in duncanville  
we're in a temporary place right now  
and uh so they've enjoyed the school  
so we're kind of trying to stay here  
but  
well what the problem we got is that we've got five children  
and so uh we really want four or five bedroom house  
and uh you know everybody says you know how many houses are on the market and   all that kind of thing  
so we uh we look at the paper  
we look at our talk to our realtor  
and you can cut you know the listings uh in about a third when you go from three to four bedrooms   you know or five  
are you looking  
or you settled  
i mean  
having  
oh great  
that empty nest syndrome is going to set in i guess  
great  
okay  
okay  
you are you from florida originally  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we've got five  
and the oldest is uh ninth grade  
and the youngest is second grade  
and i think they're going to be uh with us forever  
i don't know if that's true  
but it's sure you know we're not anywhere near looking to uh uh cut down in size  
we're we're   trying to   find  
oh yeah  
in fact six would be real good  
my wife and i can share a bedroom  
either  
oh i don't think it's possible unless you you know multimillionaire something like that  
uh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it is  
yeah  
uh we're having  
actually if we find something for uh i'd say less than a hundred and twenty thousand we'll be doing all right you know  
that's uh  
but i think the thing's out there  
it's just a matter of uh   you know looking   you know   finding the right place uh  
wow  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i think once we get into a place it will be just fine  
but   you know it's until then it's uh-oh a little stressful you know just looking all the time and that sort of thing  
oh yeah  
maybe that's the case  
at least she's got more opinions you know  
there's uh seems like there's more constraints   more things that she thinks about you know openness uh the size of the kitchen and all this kind of stuff that i would   probably gloss over and   maybe even ignore you know  
so   what kind of business are you in  
oh yeah  
great  
uh we're with an organization called uh wycliff bible translators  
it's a a missions organization and uh doing uh translation linguistics that sort of thing  
uh it's got an office down here in uh in near duncanville  
and we just moved down to be on staff down here  
so  
right  
uh we were uh really surprised to find that they're higher here uh  
when we moved from louisiana to denver it was [astounding] you know to find that prices were oh i guess almost two or three times as high as we'd expected  
and then uh to come down here we thought things would be lower  
and they're not  
i guess uh really prices for housing are just  
we just bought our first home
after being in school
and so we're just first time homeowners we've only been living here about six months
oh boy
uh_huh
oh so you're an old pro then
uh_huh
well what do you find it having to be like out there
i've always heard that it was expensive
oh really
uh well we uh when we graduated from school in houston
uh my husband went to school at rice and got his p h d
so that that's what brought us here
and um we had um heard a lot about richardson being a good area
and the homes there being really nice
and but we kind of just got the impression that it was out of our price range
really um
yeah
well that makes sense
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh that's good
uh_huh
well do you have a lot of homes out there that have uh foundation problems that seems to be the pretty much the rule out here
uh_huh
yeah
so did it looked cracked to you
i mean that's how you knew it was broken
oh so that's that's how you knew well since like i say we're first time homeowners i'm still scared about everything like that
going wrong
and how do you know it's going to happen and all
uh_huh
we really like our school out here
but we um we were scared to buy a house in our neighborhood because all of the homes did have these foundation problems
and we didn't know uh you know if we were afraid that we'd be living there and all of a sudden the house would crack in half and split open or something
uh
uh_huh
well that's good
well that's really good
well our house is older
it's like a nineteen sixty three house that we bought
so i'm not
it doesn't seem like it
uh i know so much has changed in their technology in the last few years
it's slab
well that's good
yes
my grandfather was a builder
and so my parents always lived in houses that he built
and then they knew they were getting a good deal
so well i uh appreciate that information about richardson
i know it was um it's got a really good reputation and fourteen years
that's pretty good
well thank you
and well uh you good luck with this program then
well at the moment
i have a little vacation house back in the woods
and it's brick
and it has it's pine [paneled] well kind of
because it's temporary
okay
and it
but if you know if you want to talk about other kinds of homes my uh uh son is a builder in oklahoma city and he was visiting a couple of weeks ago
so we went around to see all uh the homes that how they build homes in charlotte
what kind of materials they use
yeah
kind of originally from this area uh from virginia uh area
but
yeah
but moved here from oklahoma city
well no
but we spent twenty years in oklahoma we're a mobile society
yes
it is to love it
in the immediate area because we're in the county with the uh uh farmers kind of farmers they're about you know around ninety already eighty nine or ninety
but their children have grown up
and they have built then more contemporary or more uh kind of some [ostentatious] homes
but all traditional they're they're uh they're some are temporary
but mostly traditional
well how about your home
are you interested in uh
oh gosh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
that doesn't work these days
uh_huh
oh my
yes
yes
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
sure
my goodness
you are multi talented you are multi talented
oh
uh_huh
sure
sure
well if you were to do it
uh again today
what would you have done differently name things say
uh_huh
is that like a [galley] kitchen
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
how does that work in the winter
it burns it up
i'm a plant uh former plant person
and uh business uh_huh
so
uh you know
oh my
yeah
yeah
well do you not have shade so far
uh_huh
well
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
well great
yeah
well come south and uh you will you will be watching the azaleas bloom and they are just about gone this time of the year
we're all
no
uh uh everything's green all the leaves are out and all that
so it's pretty my spinach
really
well for not summer crops summer crops it's uh it's really not time to plant okra not quite the ground isn't warm enough
but uh some of those
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
get that out early
sure
yeah
no
no
you don't want to be on ladders do you you don't want to be on a ladder uh_huh
well it certainly has been enjoyable talking to you
this morning
and uh hope to hear from you
again sometime if they do that
good bye
okay
we're talking about houses and if they're typical for the area
um well i don't live in a house
i live in a duplex um it's typical for the area i would say
uh_huh
um it's it's stone and uh and wood it's a combination
which is very typical for austin
oh
well when you talk about that
this is a really um i lost my house
because i divorced and couldn't make the payments
and long sad typical divorce story
well i haven't gained myself back financially yet
and um we went from a four bedroom home to this two bedroom duplex
and um i found a very nice area
usually when you're talking rental property and duplexes you're not in with nicer homes
but there are beautiful homes in the area
and they are
it's not like tract housing at all
not a it's a um i don't know if you're familiar with where northwest hills is in austin
but that's where i am
uh_huh
just to visit your sister
uh_huh
oh okay
are the homes in your area
what what square footage
are they
okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's that is really nice
i like that
and the maintenance is low
and it always look good
uh_huh
what about the thing that i noticed and liked very much
and hadn't seen it often from the twin cities in texas it's so common to have one of those pretty wooden front doors with the iron uh you know the the pretty window in it
not stained glass
but you know i i don't know what [bevelled] glass
right
or [frosted] is that common in your area
oh
uh_huh
that's what more more typical around here
uh_huh
uh_huh
it sounds like you're in a very pretty area
uh_huh
well that that was my
that was my plan
uh_huh
right
do you work for t i
i don't either
i i had been working there
and i left t i
to see if i could uh find something that would pay me a little better
and that was in january
and so far it hasn't proved to work out that way
well i guess i'm not one to go back
it's maybe maybe make another another step or another direction
i know the day
i left it was real funny one of my past bosses looked at me and said when i told him
good bye
and i was just talking to someone seeing whether or not i couldn't hire you back
which made me feel very nice
it was a pleasant way to leave
absolutely
oh no
no
i don't believe in that
well thanks so much what do you do
uh_huh
oh okay
oh i understand that's where i was from um i'm terrible at staying on the on the subject
so if you want me to stay on it
i'll try
um
that's why i'm struggling so so much to uh i'm paying terrible rent in this duplex
i can't buy in the area um
but it
i'm trying to keep my daughters in the schools they were in and so far i'm i'm managing it
so that's
it it means a lot
uh_huh
right
well we're definitely checking out our options uh to get back to your how many people how many houses in your area have pools oh and do you have one
that's
well i've i understand that just to keep the filters running keep it clean keep it warm or cool or whatever
right
right
uh_huh
you don't you you don't really tend to use it as much as you anticipate you will either
but um i have to
i have to share this talking about houses in the area just this morning i i saw a for lease sign went up in front of one of these beautiful duplexes in the area
and i i had noticed it before the sign ever went up thinking oh that's really lovely
and i'd love to be there
and the location is great
and it said four bedrooms and you know i'm living in a two bedroom with two daughters
and it's horrible
and then and then it also had the sign on it with a swimming pool
so
me being the [eternal] [optimist] that i am i'm going to work saying okay
i've got the number
i know it's going to rent for a lot more than what i'm used to paying but you know with the pool and the extra bedroom it was going to be so nice
maybe i can do it
so i called and found out how much it costs to rent this place per month
and i could not believe it nineteen hundred dollars
i could not believe it
uh_huh
are they [intermixed] very well
or does it seem to be streets
that are
exactly
wow
oh my goodness
yes
yes
well that is
that's great planning
oh that sounds nice
is your
no
go ahead
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh that's that's kind of what i left it's not quite as wasn't quite as big as that
but it was wonderful
uh okay
do you live in a single family [dwelling] as they call it
okay
what sort of house is it
yeah
garage is that an actual closed in garage or is [carport] type of thing
okay
never actually be out of the house
yeah
now around here they tell you if if the advertisement for house for sale says garage it could mean anything from a uh part of the house all closed in to a uh uh nice [corrugated] [fiberglass] roof hanging in the middle of the yard somewhere
no
and most of them are [carports] you know they will be attached to to the house
but it will just be an extension of roof to uh over you know one or two parking spaces
yeah
yeah
uh you all are not quite getting all of that flooding that texas has been getting have you
you are getting part of that uh
okay
uh_huh
yeah
so there are areas that are so bad about flooding that they just don't cover them
huh
yeah
come to think of it
it is that way around here too
i mean you know there is nothing even vaguely [resembling] hills around here
which was real confusing
when i first moved into this area
well actually right now my wife and i are living in campus housing
yeah
they are apartment buildings one and two and three bedroom places uh we like you know uh excuse me like uh twenty five or thirty units per building or something like that
twenty five or thirty buildings
about half of them are one bedroom places
there are a pretty good number of two bedroom places
and then there is like uh fifteen or twenty three bedroom places
but uh they are not really too bad
they are basically cinder block places
yeah
just graduated in in what
physics
wow
sounds like fun
i have got a couple of physics classes facing me this this summer
so
yeah
and from what i have seen of it
i mean you know there is a lot of things that kind of dabble in the edges of physics before you actually get into the class
yeah
yeah
i remember a teacher in high school saying that uh he enjoys physics because it uh improved his his uh pool game
but anyway
yeah
uh well
once we get out of school
we are hoping to get into the mountains
somewhere probably out west
uh
yeah
more than likely the rainy side and the mountains somewhere
but uh uh originally i am from west virginia
the appalachian mountains
so uh uh long since fell in love with living in the mountains
um yeah
we're about six years
yeah
carol
uh_huh
um well it's about six years old
we've lived here as long as the house has been built
so i guess it is new in some ways
although we're learning it's falling apart
no
that's [exaggeration]
but we had some problems yesterday
so
um some plumbing problems
so it damaged the carpet
and we're going to have to do something we're not sure call insurance or something
so
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
i wouldn't think about the painting
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
huh
yeah
yeah
because we're kind of thinking of uh trying to find a used home
and uh the ones we've looked at have been really nice
um but you know there are some things you don't really think about looking at in a pre owned home that that you do in a new home
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
oh no
no
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
from scratch everything
but we're trying to look for a bigger home right now
and and
right now we're in um seventeen hundred square feet
so it's were looking for something a lot bigger because we have two kids
and uh but i like garland
i love garland
i really want to stay in garland
if i can
but uh you know there's there's other places too like [sachse]
and that and that area out there which is really nice
i've been to some friend's house out there and there's just
okay
okay uh
what's your house like
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
your city's a big city
oh i guess it is big
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well my i have also have a four bedroom house
uh we have three bathrooms two upstairs and one downstairs which makes it nice because uh it's right off the garage
so when gene's working on his cars he can come in and take a shower without going through the rest of the house and then uh i have a it's in a small city of like uh eight thousand people
and i don't know if you've heard of modesto that's the closest big city
yeah
yeah
and it's on a cul de sac uh which makes it nice because there's no through traffic you know about all the cars that come in here are people that just live right in here
and uh
yeah
it makes a lot nicer
specially i i imagine you have little kids
right
oh okay
well i have one also
but he's he'll be thirty seven in uh february
so but anyhow i have lots of little neighbor kids and they all love me
and i just just [worship] them they can come in my house
i have candy for them and cookies for them you know
so i'm just like their aunt [rosy] uh_huh
oh yeah
it's
but anyhow as far as decorating my house and everything too
i've uh stenciled uh practically in every room in my house which uh it looked like it would be very hard to do
but it ended up being really easy
and it just really just makes the rooms you know i stenciled right above the right below the ceiling line
it looks something like a wallpaper border
but it's actually a [stencil] uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well you can't afford to have it done you know plus it's fun
i enjoy you know going out and working in the yard and you know just doing everything
decorating the house up and changing it in fact i just bought a a large bird cage
i had seen in magazines how they were decorating them that not that i want a bird
i don't want a bird
but i have decorated it up with flowers and i got a little nest in there that looks like it's got two little birds in there and i've got some dolls sitting in there
it looks really really cute
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it's kind of fun to change too isn't it
a [fudgesicle] color
oh
yeah
it probably goes with a lot of different colors too
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well you are the first man that i've talked to
how did you all get tied up with this uh t i
system
yeah
i just dial one
yeah
yeah
but what uh what did you uh are you with t i or how did you get tied up with this
uh i guess a typical home here is without a uh uh basement
i guess that's the classical uh
yeah
uh we have something here
we have something here
you may not have up there which is a well we we were phasing them out is the wood shingle roof
i don't know if you had it when i first got here
from new jersey
uh
right
no
i i'm my [accent's] gone i've practiced a long time to get rid of it uh the the wood shingle roofs are phasing out here
they're very they're good for air conditioning you know
they they it's you
it's very shocking
when you look inside the attic and on a dry day and see a hundred little or thousands of little light [wholes] you know
it it's very strange
and then when of course when it rains then it then it then it [stretches] and does a pretty good job
but uh the the fire hazard has is phasing that kind of construction out
it it's
so
oh it's a rent it's a [multistory] uh last year uh luckily
no colonial is not the word had they use here uh that's a multilevel it's called multilevel it is not it's not really that typical it's a custom home
uh i live in arlington actually this
i'm working tonight
actually in dallas uh
at t i here
oh yeah
oh yeah
oh yeah
your right your right
how many calls have you made uh have you
oh really
everyone everyone's higher than i am
yeah
that that i ought to know those words from the east when i was there
but that they don't use that word here
do you have a basement
oh yeah
that's typical up there to you know
oh yeah
no
the land is much cheaper here
yeah
yeah
yeah
the lots aren't very big here either in the dallas uh fort worth area
uh but the basement there just aren't any basements
i don't know of anyone ever even thought of putting a basement in here
uh it used to be a pier and beam where they would drill piers and and the first you would have a crawl space underneath your house
but that's [phased] out in the last twenty five years where it's all slab
yeah
and uh they say that the the reason they don't put pier i think it's cheaper like you say
but uh the soil does move a lot here
and they say that you just couldn't uh put a basement in the soil
but i'd think they just to me
i don't know really know why it wouldn't work
i think you can put a basement in anywhere
it's just not not popular
yeah
really
no
no
it's not very high some of the water here
yeah
this is dallas
there
the water's down two thousand feet
yeah
i guess it's the style i really don't have an answer here because of the tornado i always thought tornados uh i thought people would build a lot of storm cellars you know or shelters you know
but even that is not uh popular at all
i don't know
i don't know of anyone doing that uh
uh i don't even see it in the newspaper where people advertise that they have storm cellars or anything
they just don't have them period
yeah
it's it's multilevel yeah
like my garage
i have uh uh a bedroom over
split level yeah
right
right
exactly
right
right
right
yeah
yeah
what's your typical heating up there in maryland gas or
uh_huh
yeah
oh really
well heat pumps nice up there
it would probably work pretty well
yeah
that's true
well they should yeah
because it's warmer in the winter or you have less of a winter down here of course
it's a short winter
but it does get down to five degrees uh occasionally
but uh i don't really know if heat pumps are that popular yet
i guess uh i don't i haven't been that close to it in the newer homes
yeah
we we have heat uh some have air conditioning units i i i'm having an all electric house
but uh it's fifty fifty there's a lot of gas houses here uh
because it's so popular
oh yeah
people i think probably prefer natural gas for for heating uh
i don't i'm an engineer and i don't like the danger of it
i've seen too many houses here [blowup] and i think
yeah
and i just think when i i had uh a gas uh uh fireplace you know i had
and i saw the way it was yeah
it went over my daughter's bedrooms you know over the garage
i thought
and there's there's just too many fittings in this thing to leak
and so i just i never did hook that sucker up
so i just took it out completely although people love gas here
but i i'm [ultraconservative] on safety and i just don't
don't want it
yeah
well i've heard yeah
i've heard people say that i i
yeah
yeah
right
oh yeah
no
i i've i've known people love it for years and uh but uh we've done without it for twenty years here
and and uh
yeah
yeah
no
i i haven't i haven't really noticed uh i don't miss it you know with our of course i'm against i'm just
i'm one of the a million people that uh is against uh gas
no
no
there's not much in front
there's no sitting out front
you know
there's no like like in the east when i was young
of course it goes way back
we used to sit out front
i have a porch up front
but no
there's not a porch
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
i i i wish i had that you know
right
i i think the old ways in a lot of uh ways should come back uh
but no
the
yeah
no
that there it's not popular here either
screens in screen in is not that that's so that's uh
not like not like you have up there
no
it's too dry
it's so dry that it's uh
dallas is super dry
uh three hundred miles
yeah
yeah
our our weather is like we have a we have a the raining season is now is april
and a little bit of may
an
then it goes into super dry all summer then you summer with a hurricane season
but
yeah
yeah
they have everything
no
public there's essentially
no [septic] not in dallas fort worth though you have it in the out lying areas
but uh two
two no not [carports] uh it's essentially garages yeah
no
dallas uh fort worth is you know the two car garage and certainly all air conditioned and uh
uh uh two thousand square feet is probably
i don't know if that's average or not
yeah
uh i i think so too
there's a lot of swimming pools here
i don't have one
okay um
what area
do you are you in
what area of the country
oh in houston
okay
i'm up in plano near dallas
do you live in a suburb or
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
is it
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
what fixing it up or keeping it up
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
oh boy
yeah
so you don't
well we have a really large house we have three kids
and we bought a five bedroom house
when we moved here and um it's getting to be too much
too much work to keep it up
three
three
so we have a bedroom for everybody
and then we have an extra playroom for them to pile all their toys in and an extra t v up there
and the ironing board and
well yeah
i that's the other thing is i was working uh full time
i just started back about a year and a half ago
and um my youngest one got to be three years old
and so then i went back to work
and i decided after a year of being a secretary that what i really wanted to do was go back and get my master's degree
and um so then i went to part time work
and i'm going to school part time
and uh it's getting to be too much financially too without my full time income
so we're we're just decided to put last week to put our house on the market and um get a smaller house
not too small though with three kids
so
so that that was kind of a hard decision to make
but i think uh i it's just been an awful lot you know financial is one thing
and that's kind of concrete but also
it's just there it the house is just really big
and there there's a lot of kids and a lot of space and it all gets messed up
so and with cleaning out to you know to sell the house
we're trying to clean things out in closets and the playroom and the garage and everything
and when you have this much space you don't have to be as careful about throwing stuff out
you just put it in the garage or put it in the playroom or something
we just have massive stuff that you know is we just accumulated too much stuff
i mean not that we have a whole bunch
of things
it's just little [junky] you know old
toys
that's it
yeah
right
right
uh_huh
there's no place to put it
yeah
to put it
uh_huh
yeah
you know
yeah
you have more control over it it seems almost like it's taking control here
but
right
yeah
yeah
it's just because you have to physically go out there and go through it
i guess when you
uh_huh
right
yeah
get yeah
it's crazy
yeah
yeah
i think
well i don't i really have uh really relaxed standards about how well organized and cleaned it is
i mean it has to be basically clean because you have to be organized enough to know where things are to be able to find things
if it gets too messy you spend your whole life going through trying to find what you need so i learned that it has you have to maintain a certain standard of cleanliness but i mean organization
but i i mean compared to the other mothers here on my street that don't work
i mean my house is just
it looks horrible compared to theirs
but i mean you have to decide what you're going to do
you know if you going to uh
what's the most important thing yeah
and so that's what slides for me
right
exactly
yeah
and uh we this house was new when we bought it
and it's all white walls and so we put up some wallpaper and some drapes you know
but we just never got we didn't have the money we didn't have the time to really decorate it
and i said to my husband if we had a smaller house
it wouldn't take you know hundreds of dollars to decorate one room it of uh you see we did this one huge wall that we have
and it was like three hundred dollars worth of wallpaper and i didn't even buy that expensive kind you know that it wouldn't even cost that much
but it was it's a real long wall
so if we had a smaller house everything would be smaller
and it wouldn't take it took us two weekends to put all the wallpaper up you know
and uh but i have a feeling it's going to be hard uh we have we have driven around in the neighborhood
we don't want our children to have to change schools
we want to try and stay in the same school area
so we've driven around the neighborhood
and we've looked from the outside
but um i still trying to find time to get this house this weekend
we're going to finish up the garage and we're going uh do you know i have a few other things i need to do here
and then after that i hope that this house will be good enough for people to come through and look at it
and then i want to start going to some open houses and and um you know look at some
but i've talked a lot with our realtor about it
and she assured me
we could get you know a four bedroom house in the price range that we want in that area
she said you're not going to like it as much as this one
i said yeah
no kidding
but um
yeah
for this house it's it's just in this area of plano
it seems the the houses are moving really quickly
i
they said my realtor said about three to six months and maybe closer to the three months
because we live half a block from the elementary school
so that's
real nice
yeah
and it is five bedrooms she said you you it's really hard to find that and most places places have four
and there are people that really want five
so that's another plus
so it might be closer to three months
and you know we'll be if we're real lucky
we won't lose any money
you know we'll we'll be able it's mostly the closing costs that are going to that we can we'll be be uh asking for more than we bought the house for three years ago
but the closing costs are going to eat out just about all of it
so
yeah
then we'll feel really we'll feel good about it
so before we can look too much
yeah
right
that's what that's what our realtor wants to do
i've talked to some other people who have put [contingencies] on their houses
and um but our our realtor just doesn't really like to do that
she doesn't even want me to go out and look and fall in love with something until you know i
yeah
well i'm going to
i'm going to i'm going to tell her you know when i have the time
that's the hard thing i have finals right now because i'm taking two classes
i have finals and papers and stuff
so in um two weeks from now i should be pretty well set and uh i'm going to go out there and look i'm going to tell her
i i want to know i want to have a feeling before i sign saying i'm going to sell this house i have to see what exactly
it is
that we're going to be moving into
so but i trust her pretty much in that
you know she knows what we're looking for
and she knows what's out there
so so how about in houston how is it down there
is it getting better
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
come back up
oh good
yeah
right
that's true
i didn't think about that
that's right
uh_huh
oh good
oh that's really nice
where do you what area
do you live in
oh okay
i live in uh rowlett
uh_huh
oh that's really nice
oh
yeah
it probably will
yeah
we have that
uh_huh
right
i guess that's just texas though you have to live with that
uh_huh
really
well we bought uh our first house at the end of eighty six
and like i said it's out in rowlett
and it's it's real nice
it's four bedroom and it's kind of a tract area too we've got people behind us and on both sides of us
i don't really like that too
well i keep telling my husband that our next house is going to sit square in the middle of at least ten acres of land
but uh it's a it's a good size
and it's something we can stay in and grow in for quite a while
i guess uh hopefully till the real estate market turns around like you
we we bought when it was down a little bit
but we've had so many [repossessions] in our neighborhood that we couldn't sell for anywhere near what we've got into it
so it uh hopefully it'll turn around
sometime
yeah
oh i think it will eventually out here they're building more new houses all the time though
and people can go and buy a brand new one that's never been lived in for less than they can get a used one
so i guess that's what they would choose
but there uh as a first time home buyer i know what you mean there's a lot of things
you're not sure about what to look out for the only really trouble we've had with our house is the seals breaking between the double [panes] and moisture gets in there
and you can hardly see out of them now they've got so much
and the [builder's] gone bankrupt
and the glass company's gone bankrupt
so we don't really have any recourse
and just hope they break or something
yeah
but other than that we haven't had any problems
oh uh_huh
yeah
we had a our insurance our home owner's insurance actually covered some of it because i told them
it looks like something is eating into the glass it turns like a [milky] white you know
so i said well how do we know it wasn't some kind of chemical or something
that's eating into that which would be covered under a glass rider so they replaced like seven of them
and we just had to pay the deductible
but they wouldn't that insurance company went out of business in texas because they had so many claims that they couldn't make a profit and so now
none of the other insurance companies will will consider covering that which i can understand it's really not
damage
oh yeah
but i bet we've got at least seven more now that are bad
just about every window in our house
i guess eventually is going to have to be replaced
yeah
well what they did is just they came in and just cut the glass out of the frame and put more glass in
that's over a year ago
and it's it hasn't had any problems
yeah
seemed to
somebody told me that they thought that too was caused by just a little bit of shifting in the foundation puts a little pressure on that seal and makes them pop open
right
okay
well it was good talking to you
i live in uh richardson area
just close to uh richland college
do you live in the area too
oh okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
oh
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
well what kind of a a house is it now are you still in
oh okay
uh_huh
right
right
well we uh rent a duplex right now
and it's only like a couple of miles from where i work
it's a little bit further for my husband we used to both work at the same building at t i
and it was only like two miles from the uh duplex now he's moved but he's going against the flow of the traffic so it's not too bad of a commute it only takes him about fifteen minutes
no
he can get on the highway and he's going north whereas most of the people are like in plano going south
so he's you know in a good situation because the traffic is not as heavy in his direction
but we've been looking for a house
but the first consideration to us is location you know
they keep building further and further out and of course you can get more house for the money
and stuff
but you know to me
i'm the same way that day to day commute i don't
like
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and i think too
we both have a little bit older cars
i mean both our cars are over ten years old now
if you get a house
if you buy a house more for your money further out you're going to have to have a pretty decent car and put a lot into uh your car payments
and your gas and stuff
i mean you know if you've got to drive it sixty miles a day you're going to go through that car a heck of a lot faster than what we did
i mean that's not something people think about is the car the car payments and the gas
uh_huh
um
well how how do you feel about the immigration laws  
yeah  
well i'm not real sure why i got this topic because i don't think i checked it off on the list   because i know very little about the current immigration laws  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh  
no  
that doesn't make a whole of lot sense  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well uh my uh my family is from uh europe from well from england and ireland   and uh have been in this country for oh more than a hundred and fifty years   almost two hundred years  
so i don't have any any uh relatives that i am or or uh several generations back that i am familiar with their names and how they fit into the family  
they were all they were all born here  
so i don't have any real strong ties with any with with the immigration laws  
i don't because i don't i don't have any personal feelings about them  
and i haven't taken the time or effort to learn what they are  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i   well i agree with that  
i i think if immigration was entirely unrestricted uh not only would would the united states become over populated well more over populated awfully quickly i think it it would bring in a lot of uh people that are run out of other countries or in trouble in in other countries  
i think they'd come here trying to find a new market for their their brand of crime  
i was not aware aware of that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think so  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
thanks  
bye  
at  
currently i think they are a little restrictive uh particularly for uh certain ethnic groups or from certain countries  
um i think we should permit uh more immigration from eastern europe for example uh particularly the uh the jewish uh uh people from russia  
i think we could permit more of them in than we have permitted in the last uh several years  
and i think we have uh uh too much restriction on the uh on the orientals also  
but of course that's just my opinion  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we seem to uh to favor certain uh uh countries particularly south american countries  
and uh there is no uh uh  
i have nothing of course against uh the uh the south americans or uh or hispanics in that sense  
but i think we uh are more restrictive of the uh so called eastern uh european countries than we uh we should be  
of course that's from my own bias since my ancestors from eastern europe  
so  
and uh so i think uh you know the uh [embargo] we placed on the uh on the russian [jews] although we of uh spent years and years uh lobbying for their release and their ability to um immigrate from russia   as soon as that occurred we simply said that uh instead of the uh hundred and fifty thousand or so who wanted to immigrate to this country we cut that by uh two thirds  
so  
i do not quite go along with that  
but  
no  
and i still think  
you know again kind of having uh uh within this century come from a uh an immigrant family or immigrant families on both sides  
both my mother's parents and my father's parents were immigrants  
so i'm a little touchy every now and then about that  
uh_huh  
oh my  
uh_huh  
well i think in a way though uh uh i also have uh an opposite point of view which is uh although i believe we should uh permit uh you know constant immigration into this country   uh i think we should uh primarily for economic reasons i think we should have um some quotas  
of course my family and i  
again again that was you know  
my grandparents came over during the time when uh there were quotas  
so they had to wait uh you know in uh certain parts of europe for years before they were permitted to come over  
so you know  
but uh   i think unrestricted immigration i think is not uh is not best uh  
uh_huh  
well you know there's another aspect of this too  
they're also uh uh diminishing the uh health restrictions which  
well yes  
there are were some uh regulations over  
i don't know whether they're laws passed or or whatever they're called uh just recently where uh people with certain diseases cannot be excluded uh from uh immigration  
age is one for example  
and uh recently uh [tuberculosis] which at one time if you had [tuberculosis] you could not get into this country   uh they dropped that also  
so i think in in some some ways we are uh becoming a little too [egalitarian] in that in that sense  
but uh i think we should be a little more [circumspect] about it  
again my opinion  
think we've talked long enough  
all right  
i i i have talked long enough  
thank you  
good bye  
hello  
well i think it's a very very complicated  
and i sort of i see perspectives on all sides  
um and i've have no hope for solutions  
but uh i do keep myself somewhat abreast of the issue  
i have worked with uh uh a little bit with refugees from   southeast asia uh who've come over uh you know to escape the [genocide] programs that are over there  
and seen you know heard about some of the problems that they've had  
and i'm also fairly sensitive to the issues about how open should the borders be  
because i in general like a smaller rather than a larger population   to the land area  
and uh   i'm in california   which has a lot of immigration probably more than any where else in the country though i'm not sure if that's the case  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
well texas   used to be part of mexico or most of it  
huh  
i i don't either  
it's a really delicate uh moral issue  
because if you have well  
i guess the one thing i do see that is is that needs to be a solution is that if you do let people into the country i do feel you have a certain obligation to   to get them on their feet  
because otherwise what you're doing is you're letting people in  
and you're you're [dooming] them to being underclass people  
you know you're [dooming] them to ghetto life or whatever  
and i know that that the southeast asians the [hmong] people that i've done some work with uh feel very quite hurt and and [unsure] of themselves when here  
because they're coming from you know from the [slash] and burn [intercultural] society you know  
they're coming from the middle ages basically  
and they're being [plunked] down [plunked] down into america  
many of them had been promised by the c i a during the war over there that because they co operated with the c i a and they helped the c i a out that when they came here the c i a would help establish them in america  
and the c i a of course isn't doing that  
and uh so they come here  
and they don't know what the heck they're doing  
and they're finding themselves [adrift] in the big cities  
and of course there are people in the big cities who would do like nothing better than to take advantage of them  
and they're they're incredible victims of crime  
and part of it is this lack of   lack of basic information being [dissimilated]  
and i'm not saying it's easy to do  
and i know there are a few people who are trying  
but but the funding isn't there for very much work to be going on  
uh yeah  
exactly  


i mean these are people who don't have the foggiest idea about what america's like  
um and it's  

it's  
i i couldn't really [conceptualize] how hard it was to understand that until i until i met with them  
and i realized that they some of the information that i just you know don't even realize and know is information they don't have  
and i never thought well i guess that is something you need to know you know  
people getting into trouble because they come here  
and so they start farming on uh available land you know like the [median] strips on [freeways] because no one's using it  
but then someone comes along and says you can't do that you know  
why can't they  
they have no idea why not some some of them you know  
the ones that have been here longer and have been in you know understand now  
but when they initially come over  
yeah  
because they're farmers  
these   are all farmers coming over  
and they're being put in the middle of the city  
i mean they're [nomadic] farmers you know  
they're people who farm on the hillside and then leave the hillside to another hillside and farm on that hillside  
these are people who've never seen flat ground before and people who've never seen property rights before you know these people who've never seen any machines other than those used in war  
and uh they have you know  
so i i i do have a lot of sympathy for them  
and i feel that america could try a little bit harder to to help people adjusting to the american way  
because if they don't you're just going to produce you know you're going to produce an underclass you know  
you're going to get a situation that i think a lot like what happened to the blacks being sort of led out of [slavery]  
and then then many of them ended up just working the same jobs they were as slaves then  
and there was no   real up [upward] movement  
and not being you know  
um  
well  
i i wasn't helping them  
i worked with them not to help them but for my own purposes  
i'm i'm a [linguist]  
and i was uh doing a language trying to learn their language a little bit  
and i actually um i mean helped them them in the sense that they received money for working with me  
but i didn't i didn't i wasn't a social worker or anything like that  
i do have friends who have tried to do more   social work   you know by explaining to people how the language   and what the problems learning english might be and such  
because all the models of teaching english are based on teaching english to spanish speakers or to other european language speakers  
and people don't realize how different some of the languages they speak are  
oh you are  
uh_huh  
well you  
that's that's been my impression  
yeah  
it's it's not they're not withholding information  
they just don't have that information  
they they haven't the foggiest idea  
yes  
and spanish is   pretty close to english really  
and spanish is a lot like english  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i'm sure it would  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it would be a good experience  
and you'd be helping people i'm sure  
very much  
and and i mean not to put not to [trivialize] the problems of any immigrant group but i do know the asian groups are having a lot of trouble  
i mean and part of the problem is that a lot of chinese and japanese immigration from you know decades ago has been very successful because they valued education and so forth  
they became a very successful immigrant group  
but and but a lot of people coming over from vietnam right now coming from worn torn countries are are not having the same success  
i think some people have just assumed well why why can't you be successful  
the japanese were or the chinese were or something  
and it's really much more complicated  
yeah  
the times are different yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i i think it's a wonderful thing to do  
and there's a lot there's a lot more  
i guess another possible solution is since taxpayers aren't going to start paying more money for this and and other budgets aren't going to be cut to pay for it uh   more of the volunteer network service  
because everyone gains from it  
would be  
would  
might be really useful  
uh and if it's you know uh just people helping people i think makes makes the community so much happier  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
i've known people with effectively worthless degrees in this country i mean  
and they're highly educated people  
but of course if you're educated and you don't speak english no one thinks anything of you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do too  
well it's been good talking with you  
uh okay  
okay  
it does sound like you have some children to take care of  
uh okay  
bye bye  
hello  
i was i was thinking about our topic for the night um immigration problems  
we have immigration problems  
and what do do you think about it  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
where are you  
see  
well we've got a lot too  
i'm in texas  
in garland right outside of dallas  
so we're getting a large  
oh gosh i don't know  
i think there's like twenty six different languages now that are spoken in i the i s d dallas [innercity] school district  
[cambodians] uh asians vietnamese  
we we're getting a lot of uh mexican americans  
you know we've had   those for a long time  
yes  
oh yes  
no  
i'm busy right now steven  
steven wants me to do popcorn right now  
okay  
and i don't know what the solution is  
to get them on their  
yeah  
right  
um  
uh_huh  
and there's a lot of [graft] like people trying to tell them oh giving them information that was free to them anyway if they just knew how to get it  
yeah  
right  
you mean really trying to plant something  
that's what you're saying  
farming  
oh  
oh that's terrible  
uh_huh  
and not being cared for  
yeah  
that's true  
well what did you do when you helped these people  
how did you what did you do  

all right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'm an e s l teacher  
yes  
i got my certification  
but actually they did not teach us very many things about how really to go about helping people to learn another language  
i mean it's like people don't know what they say  
it's not step for step  
yeah  
but anyway i enjoy it  
they they  
the kids i've worked with so far have been spanish speaking  
and  
but i'm applying for  
what  
yeah  
it is  
a lot of our words are the same  
like you know   they just change the [pronunciation] a little bit  
but i love it  
i love the culture uh the way that they uh they respect education and their teachers   their parents so much more than than my children do   you know  
and i like it  
and what i've been thinking about doing is volunteering for this uh asian center that a doctor [falk] has started that works with the school district  
and doing what trying to get them set up [inculturated]   into the system  
i thought that would be good experience for me  
and i've applied at another district where many of the children are asian  
and i think that would be wonderful too  
right  
well the times were different too  
my neighbor let's see is jewish  
and he's going through the i don't know the jewish league or something   and helping a family that's come over from russia  
and he spends  
well right now he's down to like once a week  
but he was going over there several times a week to be with the family   and help them with the language  
and he thoroughly enjoyed it  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what's so sad about this is both of the the man and the woman had a degree having to do with computers  
but   their training isn't what we need in this country  
and because they're so [deficient] in english they haven't been able to get jobs  
so they'll have to go back and get a degree here you know almost start all over  
no  
no  
and this woman was uh [stocking] the shelves in a [drugstore]  
i feel sorry for her  
well thank you  
have a good night  
okay  
yes  
i do  
okay  
bye  
right  
actually my son once said that that perhaps uh what we should do is is buy a little square of land some place in the midwest  
and and that might be the solution  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i don't  
i don't know  
i lived in the middle east for sometime  
and i i   do believe there must have been some sort of quota system because uh i know a lot of people that were in a sense not qualified is the wrong word but certainly were [deserving] to come  
and it seemed to take them a long time  
or or there was a lot of uncertainty as to whether they would be able to come  
and so i would guess that you know there are quotas for different places  
you know i i i think there's something about being able to to claim um [imminent] danger  
or i'm not sure what the terminology is  
maybe political  
yeah  
there there you go  
you got the term  
and maybe that's a an issue with a a lot of people  
i don't know  
but   yeah  
i i guess i haven't been in a situation where it's it's been threatening to to me uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i was going to say i'm not i i would guess that it's not that they are any brighter  
but they just maybe work harder  
or  
right  
right  

but maybe part of that's the problem that here we've we've let this value slip  
and they need to have some competition  
uh_huh  
well that's too bad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's really sad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well and it sounds like you feel that there is need for change  
maybe the uh you know the  
there is too big of a concentration coming all at once to to allow for adequate melting into the society  
right  
exactly  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
right  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i would i would suspect that they have  
well i guess um i don't have much much more to contribute to the topic  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
goal directed  
goal directed  
oh  
i see  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
up in the [gaithersburg] area  
uh_huh  
well no  
i think i think there as i recall in my son's class there were were an an awful lot of minorities   and uh of all of all varieties  
and with the same you know some of the some of the same problems that you've mentioned  
but uh i don't know  
i guess i wasn't involved enough to to uh really stop to think about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
exactly  
right  
right  
well it was good talking to you  
and i  
okay  
and have a good weekend  
all righty  
bye bye  
well i'll tell you why i feel so  
i feel strongly about this topic  
i don't know a whole lot about the immigration laws  
but i do know that in the where i live and i teach school there are so many orientals that have come here  
and there's a lot of mexican people too which is not neither here nor there  
but the fact is that all the orientals that are here are very affluent uh very wise in money matters and have have taken over a lot of businesses  
and have  
really  
it's kind of scary because they're so bright  
they're all the kids that i have that are oriental are really far above the american kids  
and they  
and the the parents are unbelievable because they are just on the way up  
and money is their main goal  
and it's it really is kind of scary because there's there's just [oodles] of them  
and you can not believe the businesses and corporations that have been taken over by orientals  
and it's it's kind of scares me not that i don't want them here and not that i don't appreciate the fact that you know that they have rights too  
but on the other hand you feel like almost they're they're invading us to the point where they're going to take over  
i think probably that's   a good idea   because i lived in iowa for for about ten years before i came here  
and i was born in ohio  
so it it really  
and there is there are a lot of mexican people here because we're so close to the border  
and and they are wonderful people  
and and i'm not you know i don't want to deny them their rights  
just that you you feel like when you were born and raised here and you worked very hard to make this country what it is uh it scares you when you feel like somebody's taking over  
and a lot of these people plan one day to go back you know to to vietnam or to you know taiwan or wherever they're from and take with them a lot of american dollars plus a lot of power in american companies  
and it's kind of scary  
and you know i don't know  
i don't know the immigration laws that uh that  
well and i do not  
and in fact i don't know them at all  
i don't know how many people they allow in the united states per year or if there's even a  
i don't even know if there is a number that they allow in anymore  
do you know anything about that  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i would think so too  
it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
asylum of some sort  
uh_huh  
well   well i teach in the suburb of dallas  
and and uh my kids go to school in another suburb of dallas and with very very good school systems  
and they're considered you know one of the top three in the state both of them you know  
and it seems like a lot of the orientals make sure that their kids go to these schools  
and they're head and shoulders above a lot of the kids here  
and the kids in this area are very bright and come from you know parents that are professionals or [semiprofessionals] and and uh very interested in their education  
but uh i think in the last year i'm not if i'm not mistaken in four of the six high schools the graduating class [valedictorian] and [salutatorian] were uh half or more oriental  
and you know they're just extremely bright kids  
and also they value learning  
well i i think things come easy for them too  
but i do think that they have that work ethic that we somehow have missed the boat in with a lot of kids in the united states  
i don't they uh don't want to work for anything  
they want it to come to them but and be there  
but they don't want to work hard  
and these kids work really hard  
and and they have  
yeah  
i know  
i agree with that  
but what i see is  
the competition is there  
but instead of meeting the challenge they're starting to resent them  
and it's causing you know i think some some problems  
it really is   because we see a lot of racial problems in the dallas area anyway   especially in dallas  
and it's mainly black and and and hispanic  
but uh there is some there has been some resentment with orientals in the black community because they've started businesses there  
and the blacks resent them coming in and taking their money  
and there's been some violence because of it  
it is  
it's it is very sad  
so you know i really  
i i've i've always [prided] myself on not being prejudiced and being you know uh welcome [welcoming] everyone   that wants to come here  
and even when i was younger when i was in college i was a member of the n a a c p because i lived up north  
and i was very into that the human rights part of everything  
but i i've i've become very cynical   in the last three four years living in texas  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well and exactly  
that's exactly true  
plus the fact that these people do come for a short period of time two two three four maybe five years and then go back and pick our brains which is wonderful and take all that back with them  
and and uh plus a lot of american dollars  
but in in the long run maybe that's going to make a better world too  
you know you just don't know  

and yet you know with uh with uh  
there's somebody on my other line  
but i'm going to ignore   that  
uh anyway i just  
you you kind of you you really don't know what to do  
and and i don't  
i want my kids to have values where they're accepting and so forth  
and both of my children are really more tolerant of blacks and hispanics than they are of the orientals   for some reason  
they feel you know like they've taken over  
they feel like uh you know they're taking some of the the rewards that they should have  
and i really don't want that to happen  
but   but it's happening  
and i think a lot of their friends feel the same way too  
so and i really do wish i knew about quotas and really wish i  
i really do wish i i knew more about immigration laws because i have no idea any more   because they've changed a great deal  
yeah  
i don't really either  
i wish i knew more  
probably if i did i might be a little bit more uh tolerant   perhaps  
and i  
and even if i i really wish i knew the situations they were going back to or coming from  
you don't know any of that  
and you feel you know you can't put yourself in their shoes or really understand them  
unless  
and for some reason orientals are very uh  
my good friend calls them pushy  
but i call them very that  
they know what they want  
and they go get it  
and in stores and so   and so forth it's  
pardon me  
yeah  
but in stores and things sometimes they can be very [impolite] because they can they get in front of you   or they uh they take something that you had in mind to get before you did  
you know just going for it they take it quickly  
and uh they don't think anything of that  
and i don't you know  
that's makes people [resentful] too  
and so   and yet they have they have a right to be here  
and i know that  
but it's it sometimes it's gets touchy  
so and i'm sure it's a lot different  
you're from maryland   you said  
what part of maryland are you from  
oh okay  
my sister used to live there   in that area  
and i i'm sure that it's a lot different there  
uh it's a lot different in than in iowa than it is here  
is that right  
uh_huh  
well i you know since i teach i see see it  
and and i feel  
and i love the example that most of these children give the our american children  
and yet you know i can see why some of the parents are that are fearful too  
and and it's a kind of a touchy situation  
and i wish that we could all just learn from each other and not feel threatened  
but   it doesn't happen that way   all the time  
so anyway  
it was good to talk to to you too  
and have a good trip in california  
all right  
well thank you  
bye bye  

i know they have a waiting list and a quota on immigration now  
yeah  
um well i know that they're they're real cautious about letting middle eastern people into the country now because of all the terrorism  
what   what   what all do you know about it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
there i don't think there's much of much of one because i'm sure all the people from cuba have been released from that camp that they were in  
and uh most of them it's just like australia most of them were criminals from cuba  
and i think that was just an attempt that that fidel [castro] to [undermine] you know   the united states to some extent  
so he just released and got rid of all his criminals and sent them to us  
and it's almost the same thing in in uh from asia because   a lot a lot of them was put out of business in vietnam after the war  
and  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and a lot of the mexican people just cross the border during the daytime to come over here and work  
and they have green cards  
and uh then like you said a lot of  
i run into people every day that can't speak english  
and uh and and most of them you know are working in [janitorial] positions  
so   so i i don't know  
like you said i don't know how much how much they're taking from the work force you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's  
i  
yeah  
i took spanish in school  
and that's you know one reason that i did it   is because because whenever you travel anywhere near the border you know there more and more people speak spanish  
well   yeah  
well it's basically on the well  
i think it's mostly concentrated toward the borders  
and uh it's more um  
the immigration is tied in with uh drug trafficking  
so they have to watch out who comes in  
and and they're always finding drugs on you know on the most um innocent looking kind of  
i forgot what they found  
but a dog found it the other day you know   on the border  
uh_huh  
that's right  
well   yeah  
and one of the one of the things that really gets to me uh about the mexicans is that um once they have children over here their children are american citizens then  
yeah  
and then they'll ship the parents back  
and that leaves the children without any parents  
so   and they you know and and they just follow the rule no matter you know  
so that doesn't seem fair to the children  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then they granted them amnesty if they could prove when was that it was in the eighties some time   if they could prove they'd been here five years  
and uh a lot of them had been you know  
some of them some of them moved back and forth  
but   uh most of them don't ever want to go back to mexico  
especially   the way it was then  
uh_huh  
i think most you know like especially the celebrities and everything they just have a uh well they have to get a green card if they going to do any kind of work you know in movies   and and such  
but most of them have temporary visas  
as long it's like well  
it's a kind of a bad a bad bad example  
but when [rafael] [septien] took the job with the cowboys   they had to offer his job to any other [applicant] that could do it  
yeah  
so that you know  
and that's the thing with the jobs  
and of course no one beat him out  
so you know he just ruined his own career  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think so  
because there are other i uh job opportunities   in europe that there aren't here   you know even um  
like orchestra players can find a job sometimes in europe when they can't find one here  
and i'm a trumpet player  
uh no  
i uh i don't any more  
i just went to school  
and i was a music major for a while  
but i had a trumpet teacher that played in the mexico city symphony  
so   so he had to have a work visa there  
and of course they had a lot of musicians from from other countries   and uh in the mexico city symphony  
but i think um like three out of the four other people in the trumpet section are from mexico now  
but i think the conductor i don't know or one of the conductors is is from another country  
it's like any other symphony  
you know and then and [eduardo] [mana's] from mexico  
so he had to  
i've lost track  
i don't really know  
i i do have some opinions  
but go ahead  
uh   okay  
i hadn't thought about that uh  
uh well i just have an opinion  
now i didn't think i thought the terrorism thing was [overstated] i mean  
there was nothing over here  
in fact even  
this is not our subject i guess  
but uh maybe it is or isn't i suppose  
my wife when she talked about the middle east  
and everyone's afraid you know of how the war was going to go and everything  
i said i told her no  
it's just not going to happen  
there's not going to be any terrorism over him  
and there wasn't you know  
they just didn't have an organization  
but uh i i i'm concerned that we're letting too many that we don't have enough controls  
i think that uh the asian [gangsters] that we've let in here  
and if   and the guys from uh cuba you know there's a lot of criminals down in florida that we've let in from cuba that fidel pushed off on us  
and uh and the last you know  
out of all the asians we brought in there's a tremendous criminal element that we let in from from asia  
and i think that   there's got to be some sort of controls over that  
i mean this asia [mafia] thing is getting out of hand  
i don't i don't i didn't know what i don't even know what our controls are  
i don't even know what uh if we have any guidelines at all uh on immigration  
um i always thought that we did  
but i don't i don't i don't know what they are right now  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the   yeah  
because we  
i i do have some sympathy with uh you know  
of course we have this big mexican problem  
not a problem  
but i think that we need to do something with uh the immigration of back and forth across mexico uh  
i i'm sympathetic  
i don't know what the answer is i guess  
i'm sympathetic certainly with that that that they want to come over here  
and they i guess hundreds of thousands come over every year to work  
and if if they have jobs you know i hear the story that they're taking away american jobs  
but i don't know uh  
i don't know how many american jobs they are really taking away  
so i i'm sympathetic  
but i don't have an answer  
i don't   uh i think that we should have good relations with with mexico  
but that's not really exactly immigration  
it is  
and it isn't  
i don't know to what degree we owe the people who come across before they're citizens  
owe the children education and all that uh  
although the idea of education is an answer to a lot of problems in the world  
so   i guess it's what they  
their the mexican kids get a good education along the way  
and maybe that's a benefit to everybody you know  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
and that  
yeah  
i never thought that they were much  
i do cringe when i hear some of the problems we've had  
um uh of course you mentioned the language  
i feel so bad that we here in texas or certainly the southern part of the united states uh california texas and all that why our kids don't speak fluid spanish uh by junior high you know   as well as us you know  
so that we could wouldn't have the language barrier certainly  
that that that is a shame that we have this tremendous border of mexico  
and then in europe you know they speak their french and all  
and they try they go out of their way to try to speak their neighbor's language so they can understand  
we we we don't really even make an effort   to speak spanish  
and i feel bad about that  
go ahead  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess it's never too late  
i i do have some spanish books  
and i've always uh  
every year i say i'm going to try to speak some [newcomers] language you know  
i don't know if it's costing us any money  
or how much money they're putting into it uh  
that's always a factor  
i mean how much my wife says how much the federal government is putting into it   immigration  
yeah  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i i i think that certainly is a problem  
i guess our immigration history that's a great subject  
they uh didn't say to talk about that  
but that is i mean  
on [ellis] island they  
you know they're redoing that and going to make it a museum a national museum  
that certainly was interesting  
since all of us had uh ancestors that came over that way  
or not all  
but i guess i guess if you go back far enough you came over on a boat originally you know  
but uh a lot of us have parents grandparents  
my grandparents came over in about eighteen ninety or something like that  
and i'm sure they came over you know through [ellis] island you know  
so we all immigrants one way or another well  
we certainly are coming from europe  
oh yeah  
those were laws are unusual  
yeah  
but i don't understand whose rule is that you know   yeah  
sometimes common sense should take over rather than  
yeah  
that's a law doesn't sound like it makes any sense at all   that you would do it that way  
you would think they could at least get a a a visa or something until they uh get citizenship  
i'm sure they want to  
oh yeah  
i heard something about that yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh no  
oh no  
i i could see you could see why  
i don't know how much immigration we have from europe and everything  
what the controls are  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess you can get work visas pretty easily uh  
yeah  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
oh well yeah  
yeah  
well it's still interesting after all this time that we're probably one of the one of the few countries that people are still desperately trying to immigrate to  
uh although i guess europe now that the communism is falling apart that maybe there'll be won't be that much of a rush to get out of all the communist countries uh  
i guess poland now now is [noncommunist]  
so   maybe not  
maybe immigration from europe to here will you know slowly uh change  
maybe it'll be even out like trade you know  
so many people will immigrate here in the twentieth at the year two thousand  
so many of the people will go back overseas  
you know maybe it will average out  
i don't know  
it doesn't has doesn't seem so far  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are you a teacher  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i found it interesting that they started off with a problems of immigration in america and then went back and said well if there is a problem   what should we do about it  
do you feel there's a problem with immigration in america  
okay  
that's interesting  
i was i was wondering what your response would be  
i'm a first generation american  
so i'm   from immigrant parents   or an immigrant mother anyway  
uh poland  
and that was you know prior to world war two  
but it's interesting that you know with the topic i think i agree with you  
there needs to be more of an open policy  
and you know we have to remember the chinese came here and were our labor you know for the railroad [transatlantic] railroad  
and   our [irish] came and you know built the towns and   did labor  
but what do you think  
are you from texas  
or  
pennsylvania  
okay  
well that will be interesting  
because we have just   had a [naturalization] act where the mexicans that were residents in texas i'm from texas   and have become citizens now  
what do you think about that  
well i agree with it wholeheartedly  
the only thing is i've got to share with you my background is from new jersey  
so when you were giving your answer i was thinking is this a texan i'm talking to  
because texan philosophy is a little different  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we  
oh well then you have first in the experience on immigration  
well that is interesting  
yeah  
well i wonder you know even with those that were involved with [tienamen's] square  
you know did we really protect them  
yeah  
that is true  
that is true  
well what do you think about  
we have in texas a large vietnamese population   that has been brought in  
what do you think about that  
and these are not the [brightest]  
i mean we   we're talking boat people  
we have a lot of boat people in texas  
you're a true liberal heart to heart  
good for you  
i was ready for a fight on this one  
no  
i agree because  
um interesting my when my daughter was in high school one of the [custodians] was vietnamese  
and with his limited english they found out you know that she was in student council  
and they found out that he was a medical doctor  
so what do you think about it  
right  
yeah  
i guess that's so  
um uh i think there's some problems  
but they're not really big ones  
i think that um in general the whole immigration policy isn't quite as open as it should be  
that it's really pretty hard for people from other countries to get in here even if they're educated and will be a good asset to america  
it's often hard for them to get in and get on the track towards citizenship unless they marry a citizen or something like that  
okay  
uh where did you come from  
okay  
okay  
so where did your parents come from  
okay  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yep  
uh_huh  
i'm from pennsylvania  
yeah  
right  
and uh   a lot of  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i think that's all right  
i um  
at least on the surface it sounds like a good thing  
do you have an opinion about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
okay  
right  
well a lot of the experience that i have with this problem has to do with my brother in law who's chinese and [immigrated] from china  
and um you know he um got a green card is and is in good standing in america and china but only because he was always nice to the chinese government   and all that  
and he was always on pretty good terms with them  
but um their  
my sister just had a baby  
and they're trying to get permission for his mother to come to america to like help care for the kid and that sort of thing  
and it's turned out to be sort of a horrible problem  
it's just very difficult to get a woman who doesn't have a lot of assets or whatever out of china even temporarily to visit here  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's and i think that's pretty crazy   because i mean those students who were in america when that was happening are almost certainly going to be in trouble if they go back  
and aside for that they're the best and [brightest] of china  
so it's certainly in our best selfish interest to keep them here if we can  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
see these are [refujees] you mean  
okay  
right  
okay  
right  
well um i don't have any problem with that um  
yeah  
i guess so  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and you say you have some strong feelings about uh the issue  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
well i'm a little bit ambivalent  
the problem with uh and i think one of the problems with immigration policy is like any other political problem is that people are not willing to discuss it uh in in terms of what uh really is driving it  
they're not willing to tell the truth the same way with uh issues of uh race and things like that  
i mean right now uh i believe there are two policies that uh that the government uses to [modulate] immigration three actually  
one is at the high end uh  
they always want to be able to uh do some brain [draining]  
they always like to be able to attract the uh [einsteins] or the professor [chou]  
or you know  
they'd like to be able to get the top people in any field  
and so they can almost always find room for someone like that  
at the bottom end they uh   are always willing to uh let in cheap labor if it lowers the cost of doing business in some particular area and has strong support from the   powerful people in that area  
those are two things that i think are going on although they i i don't think the politicians would tell you that  
and then the   third thing is uh the political aspect of uh uh letting steam come out from under the lid in mexico  
they cannot close off the mexican border not because it's physically impossible but because the explosion that would take place in mexico would be uh uh   would spill over to this country  
so they keep allowing uh the pressure cooker to let off steam  
uh that's one of the few things i guess i found myself in agreement with pat buchanan  
i think they're a very difficult group to [integrate] into uh society  
they're very difficult uh group to find jobs and uh and uh places for  
and so uh uh i don't deny that we may have been involved in causing the problem that uh in that they're pretty miserable where they are  
but i'm not to sympathetic about uh letting large numbers of [haitians] in  
yeah  
right  
but if you let them yeah if you let them in a million at a time it wouldn't make that you know it wouldn't make that big a bulge in the population but   politically and economically  
yeah  
well i know about it  
uh i mean it's it is now with [haitians] the way it was with [cubans] uh twenty years ago  
on the other hand you know the ironic thing about this is that there's nobody more full of the entrepreneurial american spirit than our first generation immigrant  
so there's uh there's a lot to be said for having a steady stream of people who know how it is someplace else coming in  
right  
sure  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh yes  
i do as far as uh as far as uh as far as immigration as a whole goes  
i think that uh we simply must start accepting everybody in the world  
uh i  
there just is not going to be room for all of us  
we don't have jobs now  
i i think uh i think when we come to a time of recession that it's particularly important that we shut our doors at that time  
uh i hope you're one of the employed right now  
i am one of the unemployed right now  
i was a systems analysis and programmer for an oil company  
and uh i applied for one set of jobs with a company here in dallas that they had two hundred openings  
but they had two thousand applications  
and i know that there are a lot of foreigners uh here you know doing my line of work  
and of course i'm not perfectly happy about not having a job  
so how do you feel  
right  
okay  
and i think you're right in both cases  
and i think probably it's pretty important right there  
how do you feel about [haitian] immigration  
actually actually i feel that if we accepted these people that we would eventually have almost the total population here  
and it would have nothing to do with political situations  
it would have to do with poverty  
oh my gosh  
have you been have you been to southern florida  
well i mean and the two of them together  
i mean we can  
it's just as well you know  
it's hardly america anymore  
but there's some differences in the immigrants   that that we're getting now  
well   i particularly have a problem with the illegal immigration  
i think   probably your a great deal of what you say is true about the [legals]  
but uh   the majority of the illegal immigration we're getting now they do not come here to blend into america  
uh they they don't bother to learn our language  
and uh first of all they  
i'm sorry this i really feel strongly about this  
we send a lot of money to mexico  
uh yes
i do believe that there is too much immigration now and do you
well it's not just that are there enough jobs for people here now
and yet they're letting more people in daily yeah
it
i wasn't talking about just mexico
i was talking about europeans the eastern block uh it's terrible
there's
and there's nothing we can do about it the government seems to do as they wish when they wish yes
living under a bridge so to speak
now it's true though that the bulk of of immigrants are successful
uh i saw it on the news
yes
the bulk of immigrants legal immigrants to this country are successful
you know they pay to end up as tax paying citizens making uh above middle class incomes whatever that is in the united states now
well yeah you work for t i
uh they say that's due to their work ethic
now i don't know if that's true or not
it just might be a matter of luck
but then america always has been for the immigrant huh
none of us would
there you know there's only a very few native americans here
yes
they are
well most of them
you're right
but then i drive through [ruidoso] and i think well not all of them have it desperately bad
you know you've you've driven by you know the mountain gods outside of [ruidoso] haven't you
oh it's beautiful country up there in the mountains of new mexico
oh
just just gorgeous and that inn is huge
and but now uh like i say that one tribe is the exception not the rule you know most
tribes were treated [dreadfully] and still are yes
oh a native texan
oh
well i'm i'm i'm a native born texan
but uh you know how it is
we go where the work is
uh in lubbock
in seventy four
so yes i am i am a [longtime] t i
uh the ones we see are americans by marriage a huge number here in colorado springs
there's an air force base
and an army base so there's
people that marry g i korean americans german americans
uh a few japanese a few chinese you understand
yeah
well that's not really immigration
yeah
yeah
you can't stop them
and once they're here to some extent we support them
i don't either
but uh what i suspect is that [illegals] were hired for a hundred and fifty years of texas history
i don't think they can stop it by a federal [edict] i don't think the federal government can stop it by by waving their magic [wand] and saying
it will happen no more
it's just too [inbred] in the culture
you know i grew up in dumas and lubbock
and uh every roofing crew was illegal
sure
see uh still some migrant labor is legal you know
it is in texas too
yes
yeah
during cotton harvest and whenever the the uh tomatoes and all are
well well the truth of the matter is
i don't know what your home payments are but you couldn't make a living on what they earn you could not
have you seen how those poor people live
migrant labor camps oh my god they live in cardboard boxes
and these fine americans take care of them
and i
yes
and i don't hold it against the people
they're hard workers trying to make it
no
no
they'll they'll ask for a [handout] first
no
no
what they're doing is they're asking for [handouts] because if you took them into your home to to work in your yard or whatever
they'd know where your house is and how to break in then
or now that's not true of all of them there are
i don't i don't know
but i'm sure that times being as hard as they are and times are hard not everyone's that way you know good people are being put out of jobs now
from t i
oh so you don't
oh
and you got transferred to a different
right
yeah
i've i've i've noticed
uh rumors still [persist] i try not to believe them and listen to them
but they still [persist] that the plant will close
yeah
so you're in division what now
corporate corporate okay
yeah
that that must feel somewhat safer
well you're probably right
up here in rochester
we uh we don't have uh much controversy about immigration you know being on the canadian border there's not a whole lot of people you know dying to come across and live here
sometimes i think they ought to
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i think it's uh i think it's a real shame
but on the other hand you know it kind of even with all the tragedies if you step back and look at it
the fact that people want to come here must be that there's something better here than or at least they think there's something better here than there is uh wherever they're from
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's true
but i think that's probably always been true throughout uh history of the united states uh i think anytime you have uh you know immigrants coming in who perhaps you know don't have the ability to communicate with a large percentage of the population that's already here i think they're bound to to push the social services a little bit do you think it's worse today than it was maybe fifty years ago
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
okay
uh_huh
yeah
that's right
that's right
it's really interesting to me because as as as as you pointed out at the beginning here in rochester uh now we don't have it immigration we don't even have a lot of immigration
but on the other hand you know it's
we do have uh a large influx of uh people from say jamaica or other parts of the caribbean
that's you know and puerto rico we have a a large population from there people who have come over you know maybe in the last you know ten or twenty years
have moved here
no
why somebody from jamaica want to would want to move to cold rochester
i'm a little
uh i'm a little hard pressed to understand
but they do it
so so you know i don't blame them to each their own but you know if you look at at a place like rochester now now we have a large population of like second and third generation americans of people who you know whose parents or grandparents came to uh the united states you know people from italy
uh people from poland people from the ukraine uh and i always you know i always wonder whether you know was the situation any different back then
i mean how did the people who had been in the united states for for a while feel about this large amount of immigration uh it's fairly well known that at one of the major companies in rochester who i won't say their name
but i'm sure you've heard of them uh back in the thirties didn't want to hire the italian immigrants because it it was it was a [discriminatory] practice and uh you know it just makes me wonder you know you know i look at what what made this country great
and a lot of cases it was the immigrants who came over and worked
and i
and sometimes i wonder you know whether you know just how different is the situation today
are you a native american
so you are real so all the rest of us are uh immigrants
it's kind of interesting that they would do
how do you feel about the idea of letting all these foreigners in
well do you think there should be restrictions on uh who you should let in
well what about if somebody was uh is sick say they have aids or something
yeah
yeah
that it it's really sad that uh
but apparently they're they're i think there are some rules that won't let people in who have
yeah
yeah
yeah
that that can really be a problem
i know in in in new york
there's a problem with the koreans that uh that that the uh black community is complaining that the koreans are taking over
well i have a friend that's married to a
in fact he went to korea and married a korean
and brought her home
and uh the problem was that that she is a real hard worker and has started a a couple of businesses and now she's started a korean health food store
and she's really a go [getter] that uh
and she started off uh cleaning uh houses
and uh then she found out that these automobile dealerships needed
and so she got some people to help her
and she had one
and then she was doing a good job
and she wound up having eight or ten automobile dealerships that she was cleaning and and apparently uh her her husband is sort of watching the money for her
but apparently she's a really a hard worker and willing to do the hard work
and has been able
and now she's made enough money to start this health food store
i don't know how she's doing
but it
i you have to admire the people who have come in and work and don't you know don't take money from the government
yeah
no
it it it's also kind of
well and the problem is that the jobs it's it's like the minimum wage everybody saying well i made the minimum wage
but my i have a seventeen year old son
and he's saying well he'll go out and work at minimum wage
well the problem is minimum wage is not enough to live on
yeah
no
and and and that's what i think is so sad about the whole proposition and if you've got all these people who come and work for for nothing
and uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
why do you do you do you think that has any anything to do though with uh
yeah
what what about cars that are that
well what about the what about the fact that it is right across the border in mexico
well but no
i'm talking about the idea of the that the company set up uh factories right across the border right across the texas border in mexico
well you you you think you think that's worse than than having the mexicans come across the border and work in the factory of the united states and take jobs away from americans
well but but what you think of the of of the big uh the big companies that uh that that set up factories in mexico and basically move jobs out of the united states down to mexico
yeah
it's in
anyway but but do you think
but the thing is if they put a factory down there that means that there's more jobs for those people
so they're not crossing the border
but do you think
do you think that's why there's so many people that want to come to the united states cause of freedom
or
do you think that's the main reason or do you think the as opposed to well
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
but what about the
do you think that's fair for for people that come in here from say like the i know i know a lot of koreans that's why uh
and and you think it's fair
well yeah
we were
yeah
well we had uh we knew some [laotians]
and and uh the job they took uh you know basically are cleaning jobs and uh course there's a lot of money in cleaning you know if you get a good business going you know there's there's a lot of money to be made for cleaning but they uh
uh_huh
yes
uh
yes
yeah
yeah
it is
and i found that uh
yeah
and that's interesting though i
yeah
yeah
what they were saying is that these uh people come in and they are uh they were uh live on say twenty percent of what they make
and and they'll put four or five families in in one apartment
and uh and
yeah
well that's another thing
no
but the idea though is
if you could put two or three families in a in a together
they'd be a lot easier
and apparently they all just save their money
and and uh and buy a bunch of things
well most of us like our freedom you know we like to be left alone
and we like uh
you know we like to have our own room
the subject is how we feel about immigration
would you like to get started
or would you like me to uh_huh
yes
that's happened to me too
oh my
well i have
i'm really torn on the subject
i'm not a good candidate for this one i see what you see and i agree with you
well the other side i see
because we have mexico
as a neighbor
and i can tell you
right now
that if i
were living in mexico and trying to raise several children
and i could see across the border
where the good life would be for my children
would i swim that river
every night twice
if that's what it took
you know i don't care whatever it would take
i have real sympathy for those people
i really do
probably
they don't have birth control
they have no concept of it
it's against their church
well
but they don't have if you know if i had to put myself in their shoes
i have to do it
one hundred percent
their church doesn't teach birth control they [preach] against it
i understand what you're saying
but i'm saying
i feel real sympathy for them
so i really
and and and by the way i feel the same way
when i i just got back from florida
and boy i tell ya happily i can i can understand just a little bit of cuban english
just a little bit
which was about all i wanted to understand
uh but i it's amazing because they're they're bilingual everything is is spanish english
in florida
and i didn't particularly enjoy it quite frankly
yes
that's right
and i'm sorry that business of making it mandatory
i don't like mandatory anything
because it just doesn't work all the time it doesn't fit
there are circumstances that are different
but i do think if you come to america and you're going to live here and you're going to go to our schools and do all of this speak our language
i really do
and it's only fair to the children
i think making giving the children an out that they don't have to speak english is just encouraging them to drop out later on
because they'll never make it through high school
and if they do it won't make any difference because there's not a job for them
that's exactly right
and that is the wrong message
i just i don't know i feel so sorry for them
but at the same time
well i would if it were if they were my kids
i would
so i have to sympathize with the people that come over here and work and send money back
you know it's it's right on the survival level
and we do what we do to survive
oh i'm i'm
that's that's one on me
too
i mean there are too many children that are just [conceived] and produced and dropped on society without a thought these crack babies
are so sad doesn't make any sense
well we had there's a little background here
but it it builds up to what we're talking about our church had a long long discussion group
and basically the question started out that as at the time when there were starving people in india i believe
and the question was should we save these people
and our bottom line answer was no because we cannot save the world
we cannot feed the world
and we should not please the world
this
and the other thing is we can feed them today
but they'll be hungry tomorrow
[what'll] we do with them tomorrow
do we feed them again tomorrow
well how long how long can we continue to feed the world we can't do
it are they starving to death
yes
and that's very sad
but we cannot save them you know
okay
we can save one
and that's good
but what's you know i just back to what you're saying
if you want to save somebody there's plenty in the united states that need it too
so they're taking the world viewpoint
uh_huh
but by profession
i negotiate for texas instruments a lot
and i'm somewhat cynical about humans
and their behavior
because i have had many interesting examples of human behavior
when you're talking about money you'd be surprised how human we all get
very quickly
uh_huh
um
well what do you think in terms of uh benefits  
absolutely  
well i have to agree with that  
you know i was thinking about uh importance of benefits and that kind of thing other than salary   while i was waiting for uh the system to find a a [respondent]  
and i started thinking that over the years that importance has changed  
and i suspect that that's probably true for everyone  
when i was much younger it was uh less important to consider retirement and less important to consider medical benefits  
but as i grow older and my family grows it the medical benefits are more important  
and the retirement is more important  
i think they have uh one that we need to recognize that we're going to have to supplement ourselves  
and that's certainly one of the reasons that i'm sure that they've begun the uh coda plan  
it's   certainly a a supplemental way uh  
and i suppose if maybe in in your instance if if you're started with t i in your early to mid twenties and happen to stay with them until you're sixty five then you'll have a very good retirement plan  
but i had another career first and then came to t i a little later  
so it's not uh  
all by itself it won't be adequate for   for my situation  
so i have to find a way to supplement that  
i understand though  
it  
uh believe me i do that myself  
and i disagree with you  
i don't think it's the worst investment   in the world  
well it's in terms of guaranteed return on investment  
and maybe you don't start looking for that word guaranteed   until later  
uh it's shown a history that uh sure beats anything else   over many many years  
i understand   that approach  
that's   what that's exactly what's happening in my family  
except that mine are a little bit older  
and and i've shown them the numbers and said this is what's going to be available  
all this is going to do is give you a little spending money while you're there  
you better make sure that you've got a scholarship  
i know  
and boy it gets really scary when you start talking to them  
uh i have a an eleven year old daughter now who's saying gee dad i want to be an [allergist]  
and i said that's wonderful  
i [applaud] that  
let   me explain to you how you get scholarships to do that  
and   then her little brother's only two years behind  
and he says well i don't know  
i think that i probably want to be a veterinarian  
and i said that's great  
let me explain to you how you get scholarships   to do that  
well that's fantastic  
and on whole i would say that they're equal to uh most of our competitors  
uh i can see some some potential changes that probably are are would not cost very much but might uh make things a little easier   such as offering a a [smorgasbord] having a larger variety of benefits  
but   but here's the amount that that t i is going to pay for it  
now it's up to you  
it's menu selection so   to speak  
well i could certainly personally stand seeing them go to a a standardized [compensatory] time   for overtime  
and i don't believe any of us would have to purchase any extra vacation days   if they did   that  
uh and and i would certainly support something like four to one or five to one  
or or you know maybe they want to get generous and make it three to one   uh as a repayment for   every three to five days that i work overtime there   they should give me one day  
but it should be a standard and and not left up to either the whim or the current overhead rate uh that's running in each department  
well that's for sure  
oh i'm sure personalities always come into play  
uh just in this size of organization  
well personally you know i think you know  
of course i'm sure we're familiar with the exact same benefit package  
and i think that uh we've probably got one of the best around you know  
besides they tend to offer adequate vacation i guess  
and the paid time off is wonderful  
and uh one of the things that we were just talking about as a matter of fact this week at work was the coda plan that is offered  
and i think that is just a a fabulous one  
so i don't know if you participate in that or not  
but  
isn't it great  
it's just a it's just a miracle that how fast that adds up you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i had never really thought of it that way  
but i guess that's true i guess that's true  
i'm still young enough that that uh the [vacation's] real important to me  
and the paid time off is real important to me and and that kind of thing  
but uh you know i was just as a matter of fact i just uh celebrated my fifth year at t i the end of last month and uh kind of started looking through the the book because of that you know  
now that i'm a hundred percent vested you know you kind of look through the book and see well what exactly what does that mean and what is the pension all about  
and you know when you're when you're you know in your  
i'm only in my late twenties now  
so you tend not to think about retirement  
but uh it's  
i guess now is the time to think about it  
so does t i have a pretty good retirement package do you think  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
it's not going to build up   quite enough  
yeah  
yeah  
well they just they seem to make it so easy to save  
you know one of the things that we're doing which is probably the worst investment in the world  
but i've got money coming out to buy savings bonds just coming straight out of my check  
and it's probably not a great investment  
but if i wasn't doing that the money wouldn't be being saved anyway you know  
i kind of have to trade off you know  
if you never see it you don't spend it  
so and it's  
yeah  
do you  
yeah  
do you really not  
i i you know i i debate about whether it's really good or not you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's very true  
we went uh and did a a thing through i b s which is a like a financial consultant type thing here in dallas  
and uh one of the things that we talked about with the counselor there was you know  
they work up this whole big you know proposal profile for you that all the things that you need to work on and you need to do  
and then one of the things that we talked about with her was you know the need to save for our son's education  
we have a two year old you know  
and and you know we can't start saving for college when he's sixteen you know  
we have to do that now  
and and uh they have a way that they can figure you know what you know  
and he's two now  
in sixteen years when he's ready to go to college this is how much it'll cost you know  
and it's just really scary the thought of how much it's going to  
it's what it costs now is ridiculous  
what it's going to cost sixteen years from now is just really scary  
and they sat down and figured up that we needed to save like between fifteen and seventeen hundred dollars a year at a oh you know six percent interest rate to be able to have you know money for his college  
and that's exactly what we have coming out in saving bonds is is you know about fifteen hundred dollars a year  
so i guess it you know  
in that way at least we know that that's taken care of you know  
we we can worry about other things  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
is it really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
well that's what she said to us  
she said now do you all want him to go to a a state college or a private college  
and and our answer was that you know we will have enough money available for him to attend a state college  
and if he wants to go to a private college he can get a scholarship to attend you know  
and that was kind of our view on it  
it just costs too much  
you just can't do it you know  
so i don't know  
it's it's  
i don't uh  
it just amazing  
it amazes me how much the the costs are going to go up over the next ten or fifteen years  
i just don't know how anybody's going to do it  
oh goodness  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
that's right  
that's right  
well you know t i you know t i offers some good stuff  
and then i think there's i mean i think there's some negatives  
but there's going to be some negatives anywhere you know no matter where you go  
i have you know all  
this is the first really large company i've worked for i've  
always been involved in little small you know [privately] owned owned firms  
and so i've never had the the big benefit package  
so i really don't know how to compare it to other big companies you know  
it when i came on it was great because i had never had anything even close to what what they offered  
so i've been real pleased  
yeah  
think so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and you can pick what you want  
and yeah  
right  
that sounds really good  
i read a thing  
i don't even remember if it was in the [dallasite] or the [insite] one about uh companies allowing you  
and they said that t i was looking into it to purchase extra vacation days which i thought sounded like a good idea  
you know if you've been there you know under five years and you get two weeks of vacation  
but that's really not enough  
and you want an extra week then you can purchase an extra week of vacation by saying okay i'm going to want an extra five days this year  
and they'll take a set amount out of each paycheck you know  
and they're [deducting] it all along  
so you you can have an extra five days off and be paid for them at the time you know  
you're really not being paid for them  
the money is actually coming out of your own pocket  
but it's coming out a little bit at a time instead of all at once you know  
so that is kind of an idea that that a lot of people sounded like that they were really interested in  
and t i said that they were looking into something like that  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
true  
true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well  
and yeah  
and and a lot of that is left up to whoever your supervisor happens to be and what type of relationship you have with that person  
and you know i see a lot of differences but from one group to the next you know about who gets it and who doesn't get it you know  
but that's and that's that way with a lot of things you know there  
it seems like it depends on what what group you happen to be in what what you're going to get and what you're not going to get  
so  
which is the same  
but but then it's probably that way anywhere you know  
that's  
uh_huh  
hi  
how are you doing  
i said how are you doing  
yeah  
we've been doing that too  
we're trying to retire in our fifties  
good luck on that one then  
i said good luck on that one then  
huh_uh  
so you work for it t i then  
you can't say  
yeah  
yes  
you do  
well i work for d i s d  
and i don't know what your talking about when you say health insurance  
but dallas doesn't pay  
it pays most of mine you know  
now after you work i think five years they begin to pay most of it  
but then for the the family you know i put my kids on my policy  
it's like two hundred dollars  
and it's gone up quite a bit  
and they predict you know of course it's going to keep going up  
i wish they could go on and pay for all of our coverage at some point  
and benefits you know  
i'd like to see child care paid for or on site child care sometime  
i think that would be a  
and it would make women go to work sometime if they knew their kids were being taken care of  
they could go visit them during the day  
what  
well we keep a shelter also monies that we're going to pay in for child care too  
you know go on and pay a lump sum  
and as long as you pay that amount you're okay  
but if you paid in more than you actually used and the same thing for insurance what you predict your going to be paying for insurance as long as you pay actually pay out that amount of money you're okay  
but if you pay out less then you lose that money  
i don't like that part  
but you don't have to do that option if you don't want to  
and then we got that cafeteria plan  
do you have that  
no  
you can uh  
well you  
let's see it it shelters you're money that you pay for for insurance  
it takes it out of your salary before taxes  
okay  
yeah  
but we call it the cafeteria plan  
i wonder why  
i said i wonder why  
cafeteria  
maybe  
so let's see what else can we do  
changes  
what  
uh_huh  
you mean like for health insurance  
yeah  
well that's easier done in a company than it is in uh school teaching  
thank you  
i said thank you  
we're both school teachers  
but it's hard to get rid of a teacher if they're not good  
it's almost impossible  
huh_uh  
um  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
right  
well they did away with tenure in teaching along time ago you know in the public schools  
it makes you more at ease  
you know you knew you weren't going to lose your job unless you really did something horrendous  
right  
well they don't  
in some places they don't  
do they  
yeah  
yeah  
what did you get your degree at  
and what's your job now  
huh_uh  
maybe  
all right  
what else could we change  
oh i'd like to see flexible hours and teaching   shared job sharing   more of that  
well see we've got a little bit of it but not much  
it would be nice if you had full insurance coverage if you were doing job sharing  
what else  
i'd like to be able to to evaluate your boss  
and it really carry some weight  
and you get to choose your boss  
huh_uh  
well so you get to evaluate him though  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
what  
i couldn't hear you  
i'm doing fine  
i'm uh just editing a spreadsheet right now  
i'm trying to figure out how i can retire without having to work until i'm ninety five  
yeah  
this is a very appropriate topic for our uh conversation today because what i'm figuring out is that i'm going to have to put in a lot more money than what i'm making  
what is that  
well we've got a pretty good situation my wife and i since our property is already paid for  
you know the main things that i like about the uh the job benefits   would be the uh the availability of the health insurance and the availability of uh you know being able to transfer around inside the organization without having you know when they cut off a system and they don't just can everybody that is working on it like some companies i know of  
you know they give you an opportunity to either transfer into an on going on going project  
yeah  
what  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
that's uh something i hadn't really thought about because we don't have children  
but i can see how it would be a a real benefit  
yes  
i do  
um  
well that could be i could see where that would be important  
no  
i don't know what it's about  
oh okay  
yeah  
yeah  
we got that  
[pretax] insurance  
yeah  
um  
oh it's probably what the first guy who did it called it  
yeah  
he was probably in the cafeteria when he thought of it  
i'll tell you what we could do  
we could prohibit people from being hired that are historically going to cost the company money you know do a little bit better research on who gets hired  
because you know  
well not only just health insurance i mean for the whole benefit of the company  
see i look at it this way if the company [folds] i got to go find a job  
okay  
now if we got somebody in a position to affect the way the company performs just about anybody in the company and they're not doing their job or they're not capable of doing their job then we should find a a place to put them or b you know boot them out  
well frankly i think school teachers ought to get about ten times what they're getting paid  
what  
oh  
oh i'm i'm  
i know  
well there's two schools of thought on that  
you know i i'm looking at trying to get into a university job position as a a professor  
i got about eight years of education ahead of me before i can do that  
but once you get that job with the university you've got ten years of probation  
then you have tenure  
and they can't fire you  
well you know in a situation like that i don't know if that's good or bad  
i do know that i've had tenured professors that were just sorry  
and i've also had tenured professors that were the best things on two legs  
but in addition  
well they they really can't fire you without cause  
you know the governments taken care of that  
but um what i'm looking at is you know there are a lot of teachers that aren't getting paid what they need to be getting paid  
and there are some teachers out there that aren't worth having around as [janitors]  
you know and i could see a point protecting someone's position  
but on the other hand i don't think it you know that someone that teaches uh say shop for instance should have to have degree at all  
well  
in some places that don't  
but you know you you get specialized education now for instance take computer science  
we've got kids twenty years old right now that could beat any computer professor at micro computer applications  
i know we could  
and these people can't even get jobs doing anything besides digging [ditches] because there's no [comprehensive] test that they can take that would allow them to to step into that position without having to go through the [rigamarole] of college  
you know i went to college late on in life  
and i realize that hey it's nothing but four years of endurance  
and you might be [teachable]  
you know what i mean  
i mean my agree is absolutely worthless  
it's my experience and and my knowledge that that is beneficial  
but then you know like i said i came in backwards  
industrial marketing  
well actually i'm selling computer software  
but the two are [mutually] exclusive because the the experience that got me the job that i got now was my experience in the construction field prior to going to college   not my degree which is i think kind of bizarre  
well uh   we've   we've we've already got that  
well  
yeah  
supervisor [evaluations] have always been a tough one especially in my line because you know my supervisor has nothing to with my job except to make sure i get my check  
well not really  
you know i mean there's what's to evaluate about him you know  
i mean my my supervisor level is like practically zero  
i run the whole show  
and when i need something i tell my boss  
and he gets it for me because he knows that i know what i'm doing  
you know and uh that that is something that i think needs to be expanded on specially in the large market place you know the major corporation because so often you know you get a guy who's got eight or nine or ten people working for him in separate areas   so to speak  
you know it's it's hard for me to you know especially since i'm in marketing sales you know  
i make more than my boss because he's salary and i'm not  
i make as much as i earn  
you know if i don't make a sale i don't make anything  
yeah  
well it's tough  
but uh you know there are requirements and quotas what not for me to make  
but um the bottom line on on that kind of thing is you know we have a lot of people especially in major corporations who aren't doing a damn thing  
they're just there  
you know the work they do could be totally eliminated  
and not that they aren't worth or not that they aren't trying or anything but it's just that their jobs are useless  
take for instance um a large construction company i used to work for ed [swampers]  
[swampers] is a guy who's in the union  
he's a [laborer]  
and he's assigned to  
hi kay  
i uh was thinking about salaries and benefits and   uh was wondering what's the most important thing to you besides a salary in a job  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
i don't ever want to have to worry about that  
that's real important to me  
um you know we have that that aetna  
that's what we the insurance that we have right now  
when we were in colorado they had um a different type of h m o there that i really liked a lot  
it was um not that kind of h m o where you have to go to their their sort of like [clinics] you know  
but this was just an h m o where you could go to private practice doctors and to the regular hospitals and all that  
but it was with a certain list of of doctors that you know participated   in the h m o  
and um   you know then you only had to pay the  
for us it was a five dollar co payment every time you went to the doctor and uh three dollars for the prescriptions  
and uh i especially liked the prescription especially since my children tend to have ear infections all the time  
that those prescriptions can be very expensive  
oh i know  
especially if you get what is it [seclor] i think that   that just about breaks the bank right there  
uh_huh  
do   do you have the basic plan or do you have the the other one  
right  
the one that's like you get additional  
they'll pay a little bit more   i think for the different procedures  
we just have the basic right now  
and for most things it tends to cover it  
we don't too many major um expenses at this point  
but we have been able to find dentists that will accept pretty much whatever the basic plan pays  
a couple of times we've had to pay oh i don't know three to five dollars but   that's not that bad  
uh_huh  
no  
we don't like that either  
is his office in plano  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's not bad  
right  
oh yes  
you're not kidding  
that's right  
well those are some of the things that are very important to us too  
um we we'd like you know other benefits that are provided um  
the athletic facilities that you sometimes take advantage of   i think that's that's pretty nice  
but i have to say that since we've come here we haven't done it too much though  
we haven't enrolled in too many of the classes or or any of that  
but that's that's a nice benefit to have  
right  
yeah  
that's that's one of i think the hard things right now  
i mean they're going through some tough times   to say the least  
i know many of us are thankful that he still has a  
job   uh one of the drawbacks i think of working for a big company is often times you do have to follow pretty rigid um guidelines  
um if if an employee is especially [exemplary] i think it's often  
in a smaller company it's a little bit easier for them to say hey you know this person did a wonderful job give him a big bonus kind of thing  
a lot of times   smaller companies have bonus plans where i think in a large company it's hard to do that because there're just so many people to deal with  
and you have to have guidelines you know for salary increases and things like that  
that's one of the things that that happens when someone when you're dealing with a large company  
but  
uh_huh  
right   how long has he been in his present position  
uh_huh  
well i was going to say it sounds like you you picked out a lot of good things you know for him to to uh to choose in a position and have a lot of thought put into it  
in a big company though you also get moved around a lot  
he may be having to drive over here to lewisville some time  
or we may be having to drive to plano  
you never know  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
we're very  
we're very far from our families  
and it's really hard  
i have little children  
and um they were the only grandchildren  
and so our our families are are really far away  
in fact this is a little off the topic but yesterday my mother happened to be on a train going from phoenix to back to chicago  
and it stopped in dallas for half an hour so i loaded the kids in the car  
and we went downtown and met her train for half an hour and brought her a little snack and an easter basket  
and   i think it it made her trip a little bit nicer  
yeah  
and it's it's hard  
i mean just for us to [snatch] a half hour like that   is a special occasion for us  
so um  
it's nice   it's nice that you can have your family close like that  
yeah  
sometimes it can be  
that's good  
okay  
well i have too  
okay  
you too  
bye bye  
hi  
uh_huh  
well um i we just recently graduated from rice university  
and uh we were going through a lot of job interviews and things  
and some of the things that were important to me uh when my husband was looking for his job was um hours you know  
we  
he'd been in graduate school so i was used to his not being home at all  
so i was you know didn't want him to have a job that would make him kind of be on call all the time and have to go in at any time and   you know even on the weekends and um and things  
so that was important to me and also insurance for the our family   because we'd like to be able to take care of our medical needs and not be thinking so much about whether or not you can afford it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
us too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's nice  
uh_huh  
that's good  
uh_huh  
oh i know  
we just went through that ourselves  
we just you know are like fifty dollars for this series of antibiotics and things  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
it's pretty bad  
well yeah  
and we um we were interested in having dental insurance too  
because um having been in school we kind of put things off   and only went in when we knew there was a problem somewhere and stuff  
and   we wanted to be able to go in and have our teeth cleaned and just checked all over  
and  
we have um you know  
we're at aetna with an uh  
we have like the the dental insurance is separate  
is that what you mean  
i don't think it's the basic  
i think it's the other one  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
that's great  
yeah  
we need to go shopping for dentists and things like that too  
yes  
and let's see  
besides insurance other things that we looked at um  
well my husband does not like to commute   very far  
and and we don't like him to be you know having to drive an hour to work or something  
so we kind of looked for where where the uh his office would be located  
and   well he's at you know he's at the one that's at um seventy five at uh six thirty five   and so we by living in plano we're just about fifteen minutes away  
um especially when they finish all the construction out here  
and we didn't want him to let you know to  
like we had some job offers in the new york area  
and we thought well you know he would be really commuting  
and not only is it you know trouble to have to drive but it takes time away from your home and your family when you're out driving  
and um so that was something that was important to us  
and because like i say we kind of felt deprived that he had been in school and been away from us for so long  
that we were anxious to do everything we could to have you know made us be more together  
and and what other  
can you think of another thing that you guys looked at  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's really important  
um also what um opportunities there would be for advancement i think we looked at besides just you know what salary you would be having now  
but when when could uh your salary increase  
um is there was there somewhere to go  
uh_huh  
yes  
that we can make our mortgage payments  
and yeah  
that's really true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but we also were interested in um you know being sure that he felt like he liked the people that he would be working with   and that there would be some opportunity for friendships that way so that you would feel happy going to work every day and   rather than thinking oh i really i can't stand these people  
but so that's something that was important to him in thinking he could work under  
oh just since last summer  
it's only been not even a year yet  
so  
yes well  
oh yeah  
you never know  
we're hoping that that won't be the case  
we i think one of the most deciding factors of why we chose um this area is that um my husband was raised in irving  
and so he we have a lot of family here his side of the family  
and being  
when we were down in houston we were isolated  
i mean it's not that far but people would  
we didn't have anyone in town that was our family  
and although we had really good friends and we had church and school support and things um we were anxious to move close to family members just because we wanted our children to know their grandparents and things like that  
so that really made a big difference i think in why we chose t i and chose to move this way  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
yeah  
and it is i think it is important to you know want to be close to your family  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's the same   way we felt  
we're really enjoying it  
i wonder what it would be like  
i mean i wanted to be close to family but i also thought it would be harder to be close to family  
but it's turned out really good  
and i think that you know we're really satisfied with that choice  
and we you know kind of felt like um it was worth it   to us  
but anyway  
well i my children just ran out the door so i need to go check on them  
well i've really enjoyed the conversation  
and uh nice to have met you  
and you have a good day  
bye bye  
about how many calls have you made on this system  
oh okay  
yeah  
i uh i only started doing it after uh i started getting calls and said oh heck  
that's right  
i'm supposed to make a few calls  
so i started about a month ago  
and i  
this is getting close to twenty here which is i think is about all uh our little gift book goes up to  
but i don't really know  
i've got about twelve tickets in the mail  
do you have  
you've a few  
okay  
medical  
go ahead  
i'm i'm medical  
that's mine  
yeah  
i i'm benefits  
go ahead you first  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
the one  
it's kind of like uh  
automobile insurance  
the ones uh that i think are the highest and important to me uh i hope i never have to use them really per se although i've used medical a little bit  
that well that one certainly is high  
i i worry that it's [weakening] rather than strengthening  
so i like to reverse that trend and say i'd like to get those to strengthen you know   be better and better  
then salary [continuance] i've never used that one  
i hope i never will  
but that's kind of like an insurance thing  
i sure like that one  
that's like automobile insurance  
you never want to get in an accident  
but it  
you like to have it there  
uh_huh  
right  
with t i or somebody else  
uh_huh  
oh right  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
right  
and outside consultants  
didn't they have an outside consultant too  
did they have an outside consultant like a the  
yeah  
right  
oh really  
yeah  
they seem to be doing a good job of that  
i'm in facilities  
and our organization built builds those facilities over in park central now  
and i guess they've been using them for six months now  
and i've known several engineers that got laid off  
and they said it's like getting a p h d almost  
they  
the much they learn over there you know after they've been laid off uh  
one engineer said it was really an education  
he he just learned like you  
he said he learned a tremendous amount that he never would have able to pick up on his own  
he was very thankful for that too  
to have an office  
yeah  
yeah  
well he said he learned so much  
and how  
he thought he thought he had a p h d in how to get a job after he was   through the whole process   for for several months  
he did eventually get a job  
yeah apparently  
it's very sophisticated  
and i guess it may be one of the best uh that anyone's doing  
right  
you're absolutely right  
that's a good one  
what do you think about pensions  
anything on that or  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
what do you think of a pension that goes from one company to the other like an account like a four o one account  
i i've been thinking about that for years uh  
i know  
that's what i'm saying that that pensions  
you see just like you were you're saying you've only got uh so many years  
say you work for two three companies you take your pension with you after you're vested   and then just add the money together like you do with a four o one account you know  
uh it's your account period  
it doesn't matter where you go or anything  
that's your account to roll over  
no  
no  
there isn't  
i i'm saying that's the question  
what do you think could be better  
and i'm saying that pensions say in the year two thousand or more when social security goes away which it probably will  
i think they ought to have a pension at least that you'd never lose  
so you work for a company seven years  
uh well social [security's] going to go to way i think  
and you can or you can invest your own money  
you have no control over your social security  
and it's not paid for by the current  
like when  
say we retire after the year two thousand social [security's] paid for by the twenty five year olds  
you know they may rebel and you won't have any social security where if your money was in your account i mean you can never lose it  
it's there  
you don't have to depend on anybody to be putting that money in for you you know  
that's just a thought  
i mean i  
if they say which  
yeah  
yeah  
and instead of having a a socialized pension it just would be really money that you and your company  
maybe you had to put some money in it too  
i don't really know  
but i   i can see where they'd need to do something on that because the statistics are  
you don't work for a company twenty years through no fault of your own you know  
you work for five six seven  
and  
a lot of people i know guys  
yeah  
i have too  
but not not quite that often  
but uh yeah  
i've only got uh i've got i guess fourteen now here at t i  
and i hope to make twenty five which  
say if something happened to me  
i mean you know they lay me off  
so you have a pension  
but then you'd have to try to get a pension in another one  
it would be nice if they could get them together  
i do worry about medical though  
again knock wood that uh i haven't used it  
i guess you  
i'm sorry  
you really do use it throughout the year because you get your teeth fixed and all that  
i mean i  
but i'm not  
i'm talking about major items  
i haven't used it for anything major  
i'm glad it's there though  
yeah  
i have the regular  
i again i just  
i haven't  
i can't complain about it because i haven't used it  
and every time i needed it it it it's uh you know   fallen right in line for the the minor things  
i guess i'm the one just supporting most of the others  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it's two seventy five for a family  
but the dental is right away   if you  
exams uh  
okay  
yeah  
the medical you have to have a deductible  
yeah  
right  
well drugs are okay  
now i'm on that uh plan where i take blood pressure medicine  
if you take an allergy medicine so anything you need a prescription for for more than six months you get it for used to be six bucks  
they just raised it to twelve  
yeah  
that's a typical that's a typical one that's in there  
the forms are right in personnel  
fact you may be able to take care take advantage of that  
it's through [baxter] labs uh  
maybe you still can do that  
do you do you buy your pills one at a time  
well turn in your forms  
go right to personnel  
i don't know whether you have to about an h m o  
i don't think so  
you turn  
you get your doctor to give you a more than six months prescription  
and uh they're twelve dollars  
again they just were six  
they just raised them to twelve this year twelve dollars for a three months supply   or whatever whatever the the amount is uh  
i don't want to say three months  
but   it's a lot cheaper  
allergy [medicine's] really uh expensive  
and that blood pressure medicine is fairly expensive  
i take two  
go right to personnel  
they got the forms in personnel  
and maybe   maybe i'll tell you go something you didn't know about in benefits  
i do it  
yeah  
you know it's a very common thing  
it's through [baxter] labs  
tell  
yeah  
yeah  
what else  
i'm sure we're getting close to our five minutes whatever here  
what other benefits  
yeah  
salary continuation  
i think that's a great one  
but again a hope i never use that one  
that means you're really sick if you have to use that one  
i'm satisfied with the vacation  
i don't know what else you know  
you say say you get another week and  
i'm well i only got fourteen years  
so i'll get another week when i hit fifteen  
so that's that's fair  
i mean it's reasonable  
four weeks is a lot i think  
i know some people who have twenty five years and thirty and they want more  
but uh you know  
uh  
uh_huh  
well the way things go i think i'm going to have to work till i'm seventy five whether i quit and uh uh or when i retire get a part time job  
uh i've [originated] only a a few  
but i've received quite a few  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i've been getting mine  
uh you pushed the record button  
we're supposed to be discussing the subject  
yeah  
uh well i'll tell you  
i've been around for quite a few years and worked for a lot of different companies  
and uh it's hard to beat any of the benefits that or salaries either   that we get from t i  
i'm quite pleased with it  
course there's a few things that uh i think i could do better if i was sitting up in the c e o's seat  
but uh   i think [jerry's] doing a pretty good job as it goes  
uh_huh  
well  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
well uh like i say i worked for several different companies  
and there's nothing to compare with uh t i here  
now i really got caught up back in eighty five  
i got caught up in the oil layoff uh  
i wasn't with g s i but i was connected with uh uh oil uh   exploration  
no  
with t i  
but i say i wasn't connected with g s i  
and i got caught up in a layoff  
now uh course you get six months uh unemployment from the state  
but what t i did for us is is uh i've never heard of it before they fixed us up with an office with uh telephones access to long distance uh computers a secretary to take messages for us or type uh letters   for us  
uh they had out of town newspapers  
and then  
i beg your pardon  
uh yes  
they did have uh seminars every once in a while  
uh course that was not uh restricted just to just us  
but the most important thing was that uh they had made up the difference between uh unemployment pay and seventy five percent of my net pay  
and they then  
t i paid me that  
so uh i was able to uh not just exist  
i mean i i lived just as comfortably as i did before i was laid off  
uh_huh  
well this was not a learning thing by any means  
it was just a uh   an assistance trying to find another job  
oh  
uh_huh  
well course i went through this uh what about five years ago  
they may have improved it considerably  
well that's one of those little uh uh little extras that you don't see in the uh the the the [handbook] you know  
it  
well now i have uh uh  
i'm getting close to retirement  
and of course i've been looking into it but uh since i'm only a yellow [badger]   i won't be getting a whole heck of a lot from t i   as far as retirement is concerned  
i've never heard of such a thing  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
i  
that that sounds like a hell of an idea  
i didn't know there was such a thing  
yes  
by all means  
well what would be the difference between that and social security  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
i i like the idea  
course that's that's something like an i r a  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that that's what i've done  
i i've bounced around  
about every ten years   i change  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well knock wood  
i haven't used mine for anything major just doctor visits  
and well i i have the uh the h o m a  
i use h o m a  
and i like that uh a lot better than aetna  
uh_huh  
well doesn't it work you don't see uh uh anything until you spend the minimum  
don't you have to spend the minimum of two three hundred  
yeah  
well now i have the same dental you have  
uh_huh  
now see i don't have a deductible  
i pay a straight five dollars for anything a doctor visit or drugs  
oh that one i haven't heard about  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have high blood pressure problems myself  
yeah  
thirty days at a time  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
great  
yeah  
i just might do that  
well thanks  
thanks for the tip jim  
i shall look into it  
yeah  
uh let's see  
we discussed uh uh medical and dental  
uh retirement  
uh_huh  
what about vacation  
uh yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
well i'm uh i'm here  
i've got just eleven years  
and i don't think i'll ever see a a silver badge  
i won't i won't be around that long  
well i think health care is real important and dental coverage  
but i guess medical insurance is probably what i consider the second most important  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i know  
no matter what you do about that yeah unless you're like a senior v p or something which i am not  
yeah  
i know  
it's um  
i don't know  
and then when you interview for a job or something sometimes people um expect the benefits to take the place of a certain salary level  
you know they'll say maybe we'll pay you x amount annually  
but then we you know ten percent to fifteen percent more are your benefits  
and if you're like  
are you married  
um like my husband works  
and i do  
so i don't take some of  
i have certain things that i take  
and he has other things he takes  
so i mean in that kind of situation it's really almost [redundant] you know  
you know that some of the benefits i would rather have um money  
yeah  
more money actually um   or flex time or something that was a little more personal you know  
you don't use you don't use the medical insurance  
you use your your company's  
where does he work if you don't mind me  

oh you're kidding  
what's the name of that company  
what do they do  
uh_huh  
are they a big company  
or  
uh_huh  
that's see that's probably why cause canada has the the um government run health care systems social medicine  
and you don't pay them if you live there  
it's like europe  
you don't pay a dime  
you know  
sounds wonderful  
yeah  
if i were   him i'd tell him make sure he stays there  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't work at t i  
my husband works at t i  
but um   i work for e d s  
but it's like um  
you know they're both  
basically e d s is a little bit better than t i  
but   um and we take my dental my dental his medical  
and the medical is just i mean i think it's terrible you know  
twenty  
but they're then they're getting ready to change it again for aetna  
um i don't know  
i just don't think companies um they want you to feel responsible and don't abuse the medical system  
and you know   um t i just did the thing where with the smoking premiums  
we don't smoke  
but did you do you know about the smoking premiums  
yeah  
do you guys smoke  
oh yeah  
but then   you know like a lady in my office said she said her husband works for t i too  
and she said what about the people that are walking around  
and i hope  
i don't you don't sound like you're in this category but i mean   for extremely [obese] people or something   the kind of people that can't sit in the airline airplane chair you know  
you know who's going to [croak] first the people that smoke or you know  
seems like   an unnecessary penalty  
yeah  
i mean i'm not all for smoking at all  
but i just you know   i don't how they can do it  
[carte] blanket  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or something  
yeah  
it's like   stupid  
but   that's why i'm not a boss i guess  
i mean i don't know um  
what other what other type of benefits do they have that i mean canadian based companies  
they have to be a little bit different than the american um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
t i is at least   five years  
yeah  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
that's kind of nice  
yeah  
t i has that  
but that's a pretty standard thing anymore  
you know um um your husband's company probably matches more than t i though  
oh they do  
yeah  
it is  
that's still pretty good though i mean the fact that your vested that quickly   in the pension  
yeah  
i know um  
e d s has eight years  
i think e d s has seven to to eight years  
so it's like t i in that respect you know  
and and i mean and i'm working for a company that's making money  
you know   e d s has a cash flow problem as they say but   um not e d s t i um  
but i i don't know  
i think everywhere they just need to sit down and hire some people the [grunts] as i call them like myself   to tell them  
yeah  
i mean   i don't know  
but if i were to rank them i guess i would say next to income it's really just health benefits  
and then um for most people i know it would be day care  
like t i has   no day care  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i don't  
i would   think so  
yeah  
because  
yeah  
they really should because they're big enough um  
and the other thing i think is really good is that e d s is much better than t i at i think right now than that we have day care um they uh the health the health program   like t i has texans  
but it i don't think it that it's developed as much as it could be for the size company as t i  
i mean if you ever walked into e d s health corner court health clubs on site   and you walk into spring creek well spring [creek's] better than the one on dallas parkway  
but   i mean yeah  

oh it's really nice  
yeah  
you know instead of like six um [treadmills] you've got like twenty  
and e d s can't even compare in size   in terms of the number of employees  
so i   don't know  
i guess it's just where they um and like e d s [reimburses] you for adoption  
and t i doesn't have anything like that  
you know so i guess i i wish the companies like t i and a lot of others were more progressive   in that respect  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
and there's i mean they have some strange things  
i mean they have very strange like dress codes  
and you know  
um you can't wear slacks at the corporate site and that kind of thing   unless you're in a you know  
but it doesn't there aren't manufacturing environments because of the type of company it is  
um   i don't know  
i i guess i also wish that uh companies would look more at cost of living increases   instead of just merit reviews  
oh   yeah  
exactly  
i know  
i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i mean   i mean i don't know how you and your husband are too  
but i mean we have friends that laugh at us  
and we i clip coupons  
and i said hey i'll probably do this even if i'm a millionaire which i won't   ever be  
but i mean it's like  
because you just can't  
i mean it seems like every time you try to get ahead and take a vacation or something   well the car insurance is due  
i mean  
yeah  
i know  
i don't know what we're going to do about  
yeah  
you   want to rob a bank  
no  
i didn't say that  
i didn't say that on this line  
i don't know  
what else about corporate benefits  
i can't think  
it's probably been too hot today for either of us to  
um kind of nice to talk to somebody in dallas  
usually people are all over the country  
this is true  
uh_huh  
and that doesn't definitely make it any better  
it's   just something you have to keep telling yourself you know that um that's what i want that uh you know  
people are lucky to have jobs  
and people are lucky to have any kind of benefits  
when you see people that don't have um anything but h m o or you know i mean really can't even afford to get in a job that costs  
like we had a guy fixing our air conditioner  
and he said he didn't even make ten dollars an hour  
and he has three kids  
and i went oh you know that has to be rough  
um but benefits  
i don't know  
i guess i guess one thing i'd like to see too and i i don't know how t i is about this but i'd like to see um employees rank and file be able to contribute more to their um the execution of their job  
you know  
right yeah  
that's a good word for it um  
how is t i in that mode  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
all part of a good old boy network  
yeah  
uh_huh  
e d s is oh they're better  
but they're a little bit too um stiff [collared] in terms of you know what you want to do  
they're pretty much put the if that's where the [widget] goes stick it in the hole you know  
they're kind of formula oriented  
yeah  
and and you can't really argue with them because they've always been successful  
so   you know what can you tell them  
really  
well i guess that's what i know about benefits  
okay  
good talking to you  
and   keep cool  
okay  
bye bye  
yeah  
i agree on that  
and you know it seems  
compared to what we our salary is   versus what our health care is our health care keeps increasing increasing increasing and not to the same rate as our pay  
right  
me either  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
money instead  
yeah  
right  
i feel the same way actually  
um we don't use any of t i benefits other than i i buy bonds and and um that's it  
because  
not at all  
my husband's  
yes  
we use my husband's  
he he works for [bramalea] company  
and they pay one hundred percent  
not one dime is deducted from his check  
[bramalea]  
it's a security company  
and and building they own a lot of buildings and lease buildings  
and  
yeah  
actually they're from canada  
they're canada based  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
it's all taken care   yeah but our prescriptions and everything our visits to the doctor our hospitalization  
the only thing we pay for is if if something happened an emergency and we had to have an ambulance  
it's twenty five dollars  
i mean that's nothing  
really  
yeah  
well t i was getting for the both of us it was like seventy five dollars a month   you know deducted for an h m o  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we don't either  
neither one of us do  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
exactly  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
you can't charge more for a person who's on a flight   just because they're larger   yeah  
i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
they are as far as their like pension plans  
they're vested a lot earlier  
i think at t i it took five years  
five to seven  
and they're vested after their first year   totally vested  
and they have the four one k and the   usual benefits like that uh  
right  
right  
no  
they match the same amount  
yeah  
well they match four percent which is the same   you know fifty percent or four percent  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
it's  
right  
yeah  
that and i know that's a big issue  
because i i belong to a women's [forum] group  
and some of the questions we're getting are are on site day care and things like that  
that they consider a very serious benefit  
and i can't tell you anybody right now at t i that's uh considering that  
they should be though  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
a lot better  
e d s is is better than spring creek  
oh man  
yeah  
oh yeah  
people  
yeah  
oh i see  
right  
yeah  
that's good  
that's a that's a fortunate benefit you know that they're so active   for their employees  
um uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
me too  
because you know with utilities and and homes that are uh  
price of homes have   went up drastically  
like an average house is now a hundred and thirty thousand  
and that is unreal   because we've got people out here that are just poverty level  
but then we've got these million dollar homes  
so   you know where do you find a happy medium  
and how does your salary deal   with that  
it's not  
it's just not doing it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that is exactly where we are  
it's so strange  
common problem  
yeah  
really  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and i think dallas as far as um economic uncertainty is better than what most of the country is  
so somehow we're better off than a lot of them  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[empowerment] issues  
right  
well very well um  
it's slow though  
at least they're making the effort to put it out there and make it available and   and cultural change within the management first  
and now it's kind of filtering down to the [peon] level  
but uh i think they're really trying  
it's going to take years though  
i mean it's just it's that mind set   has to change  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
doesn't want to change  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
okay yeah  
me too  
good talking to you  
thanks  
okay  
bye bye  
what do you think about the benefits in jobs  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and a lot of times they turn down your claims  
so that leaves you paying for all of it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
the   health insurance i have is met life  
and if  
it's the type that if you go to a certain doctor then uh you just pay ten dollars  
and then uh the insurance pays the rest of the bill  
or if you go outside you get uh seventy thirty  
uh_huh  
right  
and and they're probably doing it to their benefit anyway  
so  
uh_huh  
well i work for sears  
and and um that's about the the only real benefit you have is health insurance  
yeah  
yeah  
but everybody gets vacation  
i mean like uh t i and some other places you know they have recreational facilities  
and they have a driving range and weight room  
and you know i think they even have a swimming pool  
and i don't know if they have any tennis courts or anything like that  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
well i don't know the the working conditions you know if you could include that in benefits  
some places aren't very safe to work  
and and some places don't compensate you for the hazards that you that you have to work under  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think so  
uh_huh  
um workmen's comp is a big thing now in in texas because um um how much it costs the employers  
and a a lot of them are going to their own insurance now  
and it reduces some of the length of the benefits and uh and i don't know besides that  
but i i noticed right off that was a year less than what the state was allowing  
well well they still have to pay it  
but they buy their own instead of going through the state  
so apparently it costs less that way  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what i what i think  
they should be able they should be able to judge their benefits on how happy their employees are  
and how much profit they're making  
instead of trying to cut everything down  
and then have everybody be unhappy and and have a constant turnover of people  
yeah  
the productivity and the training costs  
if they have to train the same employee a new employee every six months then i don't see how they can save money  
you know and once they once they get somebody good they ought to hang onto them  
okay  
it was nice talking to you  
yeah  
bye bye  
um i'm i'm relatively satisfied with the benefits i have  
i think that um our health insurance is terribly expensive  
i'd rather that we got a bit more coverage for a lot less money  
but um you know that's that's my major complaints i guess  
what about you  
uh_huh  
or or maybe that it's not understood what should be covered and what isn't  
yeah  
i   i see  
now we  
i have just the regular insurance so that any doctor is covered  
but what i found recently is what they've been doing is they they poll somehow the area  
and then they have what they consider a [justifiable] price for the area where your doctor is located based on zip code  
and so recently when when we had a claim um they didn't pay the eighty five percent they paid much lower  
and when i called they said oh well that's because your doctor is charging much more than the norm for the area  
and i was really surprised because either there aren't that many of that type of doctor within that zip code so that you know two doctors could balance each other out or their you know their statistics aren't very accurate  
yeah  
i would assume that you know whatever doctors are willing to do the paperwork and send it in  
but it's it's difficult  
what about other other benefits  
are there others that you're dissatisfied with  
well you have vacation i  
huh  
yeah  
i'm not familiar with that sort of thing  
but you know to me vacation is is an issue  
and i mean different places have different amounts of vacation i would assume  
and um you know the leniency with which they let you take leave without pay perhaps or um i don't know i suppose um sick days  
some places count the number of hours  
and some places just sort of believe you  
um ours is based on number of days  
and you know people try to build them up in case they really do get seriously ill  
right  
but um otherwise i'm not aware of any problems with the benefits around here  
so maybe that covers the topic then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or maybe a uh not really a benefit either but would be the allowing you to use the telephone for personal calls  
um but you know i suppose some places are are more stringent about that than others  
and and maybe arriving late or something like that you know  
how how they enforce the rules  
but other than that i don't have much feeling for for the benefits  
since like i said um i don't have a big problem with with them  
uh_huh  
oh i i didn't know that somebody could avoid workmen's compensation  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i suppose that whenever companies can avoid um benefits it's to the to to the benefit of the company  
and at least you know financially in the short run  
but i would think they would get a much greater turnover  
and that people would be dissatisfied  
working for them   right  
i mean sure the payroll is lower that way  
but i would assume that the productivity is way down also  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
no  
i agree  
well thank you for calling  
bye bye  
bye bye  
okay  
now you can tell me what you do  
uh_huh  
oh great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well the one john works for seems to have a you know good benefits  
and the pay is decent  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
great  
i had i had a granddaughter  
right  
uh_huh  
do you have major medical benefits  
that that helps some  
if  
it depends on what your deductible is   how high it is  
each person  
yeah  
that's pretty that's pretty high  
right  
that's that's right  
and five hundred dollars is a lot to come up with for each person to be able to start using your   major medical too  
yeah  
i know where my daughter works  
now she she  
course we live in a a rural sort of setting  
and where she works she has no benefits at all  
and her wage is not not very good  
but it's it's the type of area we live in  
of course living expenses aren't as bad either though which makes a difference  
well she has to pay for it herself  
you know they have to pay for their own insurance  
but uh  
uh well from what i've seen  
from my aunt and uncle really from florida up to here  
they're not that much different  
uh_huh  
is that right  
uh_huh  
wow  
that's a big difference  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
should be  
yes uh_huh  
and it would be much more convenient  
yeah  
it would be more convenient too  
oh yeah  
my other daughter works and has  
they have to take their two children to day care you know  
and uh it it's  
i don't know how they do it  
i really don't you know  
getting them there and then and going to work and then picking them up and   all the [preparations]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i don't know  
i think those benefits you mentioned sometimes they're even more important than the wage itself  
if you can get those benefits even uh  
they they come out to much a much better benefit than than an increase in your wage a lot of times  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
it would make it a lot better  
uh_huh  
uh well and if it was there you would really have a little more uh knowledge on what's going on   probably you know with your child  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i don't know  
my daughter one daughter works for m c i  
and they don't they where she works they don't have anything like that  
uh pittsburgh  
pittsburgh pennsylvania  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh so they were very flexible  
and that that would be great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they say you're going to do it this way and that's the way it's going to be  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
true  
well that's true in any any company i think  
i've i've never well i can't say i've never  
i've maybe worked five years out of our married life   out of the you know out of the home  
but uh the rest of the time i've been an avon lady and a lady  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and you have to take care of any benefits you want yourself  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
usually consultants make very good income  
is that right  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a consultant really is should be more knowledgeable than everybody else you know  
so it stands to reason they should really have more benefits  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and they'll do it  
uh well i work with computers just like your son  
and i actually do research in speech recognition  
part of the reason i'm participating in the project   is to see how the stuff goes  
but um i was working  
well actually i haven't worked for any large companies per se   uh recently  
but hopefully the job that i will have will have lots of benefits   [namely] lots of vacations   not real good salary but lots of vacations  
yeah  
the uh  
well actually where i was working the company  
one of the companies i was working for actually had very good health care benefits   which these days i think are really important  
because health care is so ridiculously expensive  
because we're we're paying our own insurance right now  
but and i'm  
we actually had a little baby   so i'm taking a little bit of a time off from work  
oh congratulations  
and so one thing that i'm very concerned with now is first of all health benefits  
because it's more important with a family  
and you know our doctor's routine doctor's visits covered  
my health insurance only covers um the emergency care  
right yeah  
but i don't  
right  
well my  
our [deductible's] five hundred  
but it's for each   event  
right  
but you know so it covers the emergency things but it doesn't cover if you get sick  
it doesn't cover   doctor's visits things like that  
oh yeah  
it certainly is  
uh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
and probably the medical care is less expensive too  
uh_huh  
so i think that in general the doctor's fees are probably lower there  
and so the insurance would cost lower  
well i know that friends of mine had a baby up in boston  
and their costs were about fifty percent of what it cost to have it in manhattan  
and they were at one of the better hospitals you know  
and you know good doctors in boston  
and i was at one of the big hospitals in new york  
but that's a huge difference just between  
you know and it's two big cities that i think of as somewhat comparable  
so i was pretty shocked at that  
but the other thing that i'm really concerned about  
and most companies don't have  
some are starting to have is day care  
because it would be really nice to be able to have you know someone that could watch my daughter at work  
and i'd go to work  
and if she were sick i could go down and see her if she needs to be fed whatever  
and i  
it would be more convenient more productive   i think  
uh_huh  
and and your hours are   much more [constrained] and things like that  
and that to me well that you know  
those three things the health care vacation and day care   are probably the most important benefits  
i suppose i should be concerned with life insurance and uh retirement plans  
but  
yeah  
right  
because you're you know  
certainly something like day care at the work place   would make life so much simpler   that it's worth paying you know having a lower salary  
i would certainly accept a lower   salary for that   you know everything else being equal  
because your life would be so much easier  
and there's a question of quality of life also  
yeah  
right  
and you you you don't feel like you're a half hour away if she   something happened   and you're less [preoccupied] with it i think  
but unfortunately there aren't  
i think i b m has started having that in certain locations  
uh_huh  
is that locally  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because pittsburgh's a big enough city too  
but you know i wouldn't be surprised if thing's like that didn't happen more in smaller communities before they happen in bigger ones   just because people might be more flexible in smaller locations and   things like that  
because many times small companies offer better benefits in terms of quality of life than larger companies  
like uh one company had proposed to me that i could come back to work after having the baby um any where between ten and forty hours a week   and um call my own days call my own hours  
yeah  
and which  
many times at a large company it's almost impossible   to do things like that  
right  
and if you get two weeks off you get two weeks off   and you're not allowed two weeks and one day  
so it all depends on what your position is there too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
was that when you were um well  
those have its pluses and [minuses] too  
i've been a consultant recently   and so i don't have any benefits at all  
and  
right  
and the same thing  
my husband is unfortunately being paid as a consultant  
and we tried to argue that he should get more salary for that   than what he is  
and um they they they  
right  
and they they refuse to give him more salary  
because they say they can't pay more than this and that and they're not allowed to pay him more   than what his previous salary was and things like that  
and you know times are rough now  
so it's new  
it's harder to get   the uh you know increases and things  
but um  
yeah  
well he's  
right  
well he's been doing a long term  
he's being called a consultant  
and he's really sort of a temporary employee at a place  
and they they pay him as a consultant but he doesn't get any health benefits  
he doesn't get well  
we don't care about retirement benefits  
he doesn't get um vacation benefits  
and   he does a lot of things that get [factored] into somebody else's salary  
so really his salary should be you know twenty percent or thirty percent higher   just based on that not including   the fact that you know it's a less long term commitment for the company   and all that sort of stuff  
okay  
no  
no  
uh my fiance works for the computers for the government  
and that's how he got it  
i just graduated from college  
no  
or what i'm looking for  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
um  
oh yeah  
i've heard of that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it can  
uh_huh  
oh i like to think about that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
not always safe  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well um i can just tell you like you know  
from my dad and my fiance like my dad  
well there's twelve kids in my family  
so the the dental was very important you know to my dad  
but um i think they took the dental away now  
he worked for united telephone system  
it's you know   it's just another you know telephone network  
and they took the dental away  
but now i think they're going to start getting into eye  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and now for his pension he pretty much just has the stock  
but my fiance   he's on that same kind of pension as what you said only   for everything he puts in they'll match it up to a certain amount  
like if he puts in a dollar they'll put in a dollar you know  
and then he's only allowed i think i don't know if it's maybe five percent or something like that that he's allowed to put in  
and they'll match it  
so and um he works for the  
did you ever hear of the national bureau of standards  
okay  
well he works for them  
they changed their name now  
but that's that's where he works  
and um he his vacation is really nice  
he's going to be there three years at the end of this month  
and he'll be getting three weeks vacation  
yeah  
yeah  

you know of course it's a it's for the government  
and he has all all the holidays off  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
he has it really nice  
it's nice where he works  
and um he seems to be very happy you know  
like his hospitalization  
and you know he has all that  
and with his doctors and stuff they have um a list of doctors that the employees can go to  
and it only costs a dollar as long as they go to that doctor  
you know and i think it works the same way with his prescriptions and stuff if he needs any  
but you have to go you know to certain ones  
but still that works out really nice  
you know it  
that's not bad either  
uh_huh  
are you a t i  
no  
is somebody in your family a t i  
oh okay  
so who do you work for  
so you don't have any benefits at all to talk about  
you're just going to have to imagine what you would like as benefits  
oh okay  
okay  
well in in interviewing have you ever discussed benefits with some of the potential employers  
didn't get that far  
you normally just try to sell them on your uh aptitude and not you know well how much vacation do i get  
oh well  
well i'll tell you a little bit about what t i has as benefits  
we do have uh  
like most companies we have medical insurance  
although they're tending to try to really cut costs more and more um what they started with a few years ago is that they only would allow you to go to um set hospitals in the area  
they call it network hospitals  
they're  
yeah  
they're hospitals that they're uh agreeing with uh t i that they'll be a certain rate you know for rooms and care and all that kind of stuff to keep you know costs down  
now they're going to start to do the same kind of thing with doctors  
so it's almost like a um uh an h m o   you know kind of thing that uh only certain doctors are you going to be allowed to go to and get the full coverage  
if you go to a doctor who isn't in the network then it will be less benefits that you get  
we have some dental coverage now um  
but you have to pay a little more to really get something worthwhile  
like i've had a couple of [crowns] recently  
and if you didn't have the extra dental plus um you only get like a third of your cost which can be kind of expensive with a crown  
so i i pay  
yeah  
i pay for the extra dental plus so much more per month because it always seems like if you're going to have a crown or something major done it pays a little more  
um we do have pension although i've realized recently that the pension doesn't seem to be too good  
and i know when you first start out working you're not thinking about that  
after you've been working for a while and you look at your pension account and you go is that all that's in there  
i don't think's it's going to pay too long when i get out  
um we do have a new thing that they've started a few years ago um  
it's not an i r a  
it's called a four oh one k plan  
it's kind of like pension  
you put in so much money  
and then t i um meets you half way up to a certain maximum  
so like i put in a dollar they put in fifty cents  
so that grows pretty good  
and i think that will be more of something i can see of a pension than the regular pension plan  
of course you can buy stock in the company  
but you know that's not always a real for sure kind of thing  

yeah  
especially with this one you know it kind of goes up and down  
i don't know if it's any different than other companies  
but you hate to have it [fluctuate]  
and like you know last year it was forty dollars a share  
and now this year it's thirty six dollars a share  
and you go gee i'm losing money  
doesn't quite feel as good  
and we you know vacation normally after you're here for six months  
and you start to get like five days every six months is kind of how they [accrue] it to you  
and it's one nice thing about t i is after you've been here uh for five years   you get three weeks  
which a lot of places make you work like ten years or so   before you get that much  
and we get some we get uh decent holidays  
um at thanksgiving we always get the two days off which is nice to make a nice long weekend  
and at christmas we always get two days at christmas  
they float it around depending on which day of the week christmas falls on  
so that's nice so you always get two days at christmas  
a lot of people just take you know that week  
i normally take that week somehow you know  
you only have to take three days of vacation  
and you get the whole week at christmas time  
whoa okay  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i think uh um  
i don't use the services  
but yeah i think sometime last year or just recently they started to give some kind of eye coverage  
you get discounts on uh glasses  
and i'm not quite sure there's certain places you can go to that have uh discounts for people that work here  
so you can get glasses and contacts and stuff through those particular stores or something like that  
um   uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
gee  
that's pretty decent  
right  
and you get some extra ones  
federal workers always seem to get  
you know you get columbus day and veterans day   and those ones that you couldn't really care about so much but you get the day off anyhow  
oh yeah  
okay  
yeah  
we're doing an h m o right now um  
and when we go to get prescriptions it's five dollars  
but   you know sometime sometimes when you go you know the prescription  
like my husband always takes which is kind of like you know contact stuff only better  
um you  
that's like a buck a [capsule]  
so if you've got thirty in there it normally comes out to about thirty four dollars so when you pay five it's a pretty good savings  
then there's other times that you know maybe the prescription wouldn't cost more than like seven or eight dollars  
and you pay five anyhow  
so it isn't a  
okay  
uh do you work outside the home  
okay  
wow  
have you  
yes  
uh_huh  
okay  
well yes i do  
in fact i am at work right now  
uh and so let me take the lead uh [angela]  
uh i think what is really important uh  
of course salary is very important because that's why you are working for your for the money but job satisfaction to me is also uh very important in having a job  
and uh one of the things that uh she asked us to discuss was benefits  
uh i'm assuming that you are married and have a husband that supports you  
okay  
and so we could we could talk about uh that path you know how important you think his benefits are and and and uh how important you think they are and if what would you like to see increased   in his benefits  
like uh perhaps uh he has uh   the benefit of having [eyeglasses] for the family uh uh and how much coverage uh it provides and also your hospital coverage and uh um probably dental  
how important you think that would be  
because they of course if you did not have them you would be pulling from your salary of course  
right  
right  
and they always have surprises for you  
with children  
you know and so it's it is uh  
we could not do without the benefit package from from any company that we worked for whether they be a [conglomerate] or just a small uh uh business  
you would still have something  
right  
yes  
uh_huh  
they are getting a handle on that in fact uh my oldest daughter is uh is uh a nurse  
and she just received her masters degree  
and she is now into consulting  
and that's one of the areas that she is working on to have uh uh a day care center for the the children of the of the nurses that are staffing the facility  
and that is true in many many areas of you know uh job titles   and professions  
uh_huh  
sure  
would  
it would   it would be just [futile]  
and they would not have the quality  
and they   would be deprived of their mother  
yeah  
no  
i understand that totally  
oh i hear  
yes  
that's true  
right  
uh_huh  
yes  
do you   do you think that you should fund that if they have that as a benefit if you would fund that somewhat from your salary that you are getting  
do you think that would be   acceptable  
i do too  
right  
that you  
right  
that's right  
with the company than   than having to go  
that's  
that's right  
yes  
i   agree with that  
that would be fair  
yeah  
uh and how how do you feel about uh let's see eye care  
okay  
vision i guess it's called   vision care  
it depends on who [examines] your eyes  
if you have an an [optometrist] or an [ophthalmologist]   there's a vast difference in those two uh   professionals  
[glaucoma]  
oh  
oh okay  
so  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
they are  
uh_huh  
right  
that's critical because she's in need of it so often  
yes  
and you know we have uh needs in our life that are unique to us  
and uh you know people have needs in their life that unique to us to them  
i mean we are all different  
so  
well no  
that's my other phone  
so that's it  
that's okay  
my  
that phone is ringing to an empty desk  
and she's on vacation  
so it's okay  
uh_huh  
that's very expensive  
yes  
that's true  
orthodontic work is terribly expensive  
especially when you have a lot of problems with the children teeth   and and you have to really get them when they are young in order to have uh not uh a decent smile when they are fifteen sixteen years old  
i know two of my daughters had to have that  
and they started having [extractions] at age eight uh because they just had too many teeth for their size mouth  
and we [footed] the bill because there was not any such thing and when they were young  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
major  
uh_huh  
well i tell you i i just read an article in the paper about what they are doing i think it was an ad in in our [publication] at texas instruments where they are breaking the [jaw] and   and [lining] the [jaw] up with the teeth  
it's it's less painful and less expensive  
yeah  
i i know  
but it it's it's uh easier on the patient in the long run   which amazed me  

no  
i do not  
do you  
have i  
uh no  
not actually  
okay  
right  
okay  
right  
i i think that job wise benefits are just as important as salary is  
exactly  
exactly  
especially when you have a family with children and you are always going to the doctor for  
exactly  
they always do  
yeah  
i think any any even if your insurance policy is not the greatest  
exactly  
you you would not be pulling it out of your account all of the time   just by yourself  
also for working women   uh i think a lot of the companies should start providing for day care in the in the   in the building  
right  
yeah  
like in may case i have three children   from ages nine to two   and it's just [unfeasible] for me to try to get a job because all the money that i would   be making would be going to day care  
and it would be just  
basically be me working to pay for them to be at a day care   center  
exactly  
besides which it would be easier uh there's a lot of single mothers out there now from divorces and a lot of   women are starting to have babies without a partner  
and to go to work you are worried about your child besides which you have to get up earlier to take the child to day care  
and if they were in the same building   then you are going to the same place  
and you could go for your lunch hour down and visit with your child   or you know and take your breaks with your children or something  
i think  
i   think it would be fair  
i think if if the company could not provide it all on their own   for the for the people that would be using it you know   a certain amount of their salary would go to it  
but it would still probably be cheaper   with the company helping   our if everybody you know pulled their own weight in it  
i think it would be really   really great  
yeah  
i do  
eye care is good  
i do not  
i am not  
i do not think we have that on our policy  
but uh we  
yeah  
it would be great i mean uh the glasses that  
the exams themselves are not expensive it's the glasses  
yeah  
that's true  
right  
now like my  
right  
well like my mother she has to go for testing cause she has got  
well she does not have it  
but   she is like on the verge of it or   something  
her eyes are changing  
and she has to be tested periodically  
and   and those are expensive tests  
now i think your insurance covers her   on that  
but you know for something like that that's just as bad as a medical you know  
that's  
right  
right  
now i would like to see better dental insurance to me  
was that our beep  
oh  
huh  
okay  
but with the three children   um orthopedic care um not orthopedic orthodontic care  
because on on a lot of the dental insurance they do not cover that well  
for the the [orthodontia] stuff  
yes  
it is  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
my middle child needs to have uh orthodontic he's because his his [pallet] is [squared] not rounded  
and it affects his speech a little bit not not anything you know  
right  
but just enough that his bite is off a little bit  
and it's like four hundred dollars  
and my insurance is only going to cover like fifty of it  
oh  
really  
that sounds like it would hurt more  
oh gosh  
i i would much rather that do that   to myself than make my five year old go in and do it  
that would kill me  
there we go  
uh so uh what do you consider the most important benefit besides salary  
that week  
right  
um  
well uh i right now i'm in sort of a weird situation  
i'm a graduate student that uh  
i don't have that many benefits per se  
uh sort of get  
yeah  
yeah  
my wife has a real job  
and i can see from her angle  
uh uh i think health insurance is real real important   i've i've i've i've discovered  
i mean even in my case it's sort of they're really uh a pain in the neck about it up here  
because the university makes me buy a small  
they they have a mandatory they have what they call the mandatory portion of their health insurance  
they offer insurance to everyone  
but then the basics that are major medical they they force you to buy here  
now i'm covered by my wife's anyway  
but i still pay them a hundred dollars a semester   for uh mandatory  
so that's sort of annoying that i'm paying for something i'm not getting in that case  
i'd rather that that went to something else  
right  
i mean uh  
and and and it turns out that actually uh the benefits they you know that that hundred dollars sort of would would [entitle] me to go to the university health services here you know and and use them  
and it turns out that i do think they're they're excellent physicians there  
so through my wife's h m o we've registered for them as our primary care physicians  
so we go there anyway  
so they're they're so if they were to bill which which i believe they don't  
but if they were to bill the h m o for my business they could in in theory be getting paid twice for the same thing  
but they're not thank god  
uh but anyway uh otherwise i would imagine uh good vacation is is important although i don't know if that's really a deciding factor for many people on a job  
i don't you know  
oh wow  
so that's really  
yeah  
i mean i don't you know i don't i know my wife uh  
i think she gets you know about two weeks a year i guess  
but they're pretty good about it if she wants other time off  
they you know usually let her  
yeah  
oh really  
just  
yeah  
yeah  
that's well that's a   that's reasonable i think  
yeah  
weigh all sorts of other things  
yeah  
i think i was watching something the other day about that actually on uh a news special or something like that  
and they were saying how in some sense that that's good because that makes health care affordable for everyone and makes you know lowers the cost of everything and all insurance  
and in other cases it's actually bad because it winds up people you know don't get to they have much less of a choice in who they can use and stuff like that  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
least off who decides  
right  
right  
you want to know that that that when you pick a doctor you know you you   could pick one who you could have some sort of a   feeling about  
yeah  
that that's the  
boy i i don't know  
that's a that's a a tough one  
uh uh and it's uh i suppose it's it's changes as uh as my perception changes of of what uh i'm getting [gypped] on  
and  
this week or this month uh uh uh we're just uh going through uh uh well there's a couple of changes to the to the uh our health plan  
and uh and i guess right now the one in my mind is health insurance  
but uh   if i step back i'm not sure i'd i'd uh say that  
what what about you  
oh okay  
yes  
okay  
but but on the other hand one of these days you'll be out looking for a  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
okay  
and and yeah  
and the benefits you're getting for that hundred dollars a semester uh you you never use because you just use your wife's  
uh yeah  
i it uh the the that that's a a negative about uh where where i am in that uh well i came out of uh i worked five years civil service  
and there it's uh if i remember right you well they they accumulate it as hours per week or something like that and or hours per pay period or something  
but anyway it works out as i remember basically to uh  
you start at at uh two and a half weeks or something like that  
and it at three years uh it goes to four weeks i believe  
and i i'm coming up on i've been at t i now uh uh coming up on fifteen years  
and it and it just uh this year is going to go to four weeks here  
so  
uh uh  
yeah  
that's a that that is a a a negative but uh but not probably not at probably not a deciding factor  
but uh  
yeah  
well that that  
yeah  
that's that's the thing is how how flexible they are for comp time kinds of   kinds of things  
and uh uh that's the the the uh  
yeah  
that's a why it hasn't made all that much difference is because the with the civil service that you could take you could take your vacation in [increments] of one hour  
and uh and but uh there wasn't uh anything as far as comp time  
so you tend to dribble away a week of it a year uh you know an hour here   a couple hours there kind of a thing  
uh whereas uh here i uh things are free enough to that uh the the actual vacation time per year probably isn't that isn't that much different  
but uh   but uh  
yeah  
i think the i think the health insurance  
i think that's that's going through changes everywhere to uh  
the they've uh uh gone through a couple years ago here where they uh will cover you much better if you go to their designated hospitals  
and now they're in the process of developing a list of of uh designated doctors uh  
so that just routine visits uh they will compensate much better for if you go to their designated doctors  
which which uh  
my assumption is that that will not include my doctor since uh he keeps real busy without having to to uh  
yeah  
well and and i think in the in the in the much bigger picture than uh to some extent hospitals and doctors have some uh fixed amount  
and if if you don't work for somebody that's got enough clout to to uh uh give you you know give you these rates and make this agreement   then uh you're not covered by that  
and and the added costs get passed on to you  
so   uh i'm not i'm not sure  
it my uh one of the [phrases] i use is that that it's moving towards uh private socialized medicine that uh in terms of the negatives of of always heard in terms of socialized medicine you have no choice on who you who you go to for a doctor and things like that uh where it's the government that decides  
here it's it's uh  
yeah  
uh and but it but it's the the same the effect is the same as the  
you you uh get left out of the loop more  
i i i know that their uh idea is that uh if if you have to pay a bigger share you'll you'll be more careful about spending the spending the money and and helping hold down the costs  
but uh i i i don't know  
in terms of in terms of uh the health care i uh find that that uh although i've i've been lucky enough to never have any big problems but that that uh the cost is not a a big factor  
i want to i want to know if the doctor's doing the right thing to make me   get better  
yeah  
yeah  
and  
brian in plano texas how are you doing today  
great nancy  
you're in plano also huh  
well good to hear  
i was just talking to someone the other day from pennsylvania  
really  
all right  
well good to hear  
good to hear  
which one  
oh yeah  
the utah jazz  
yeah  
they're they're pretty good  
they've got some   good   good some good uh good players out there  
well you ready for new year's eve  
good  
should we uh start this so we can  
what was your name again  
nancy that's   right  
and i'm brian  
just a moment  
okay nancy then i guess the today's subject is benefits   in the job other than salary  
what uh   what do you feel are important to you or other people as as [crucial] benefits  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
to to compensate   for some of the benefits  
oh  
yes  
well that that's an excellent  
so actually that is a benefit uh  
yeah  
right  
right  
well i guess that's a good point uh  
i do belong to a a large corporation  
or my that where i'm currently employed  
and there's uh there's some different things uh one that you've already mentioned is is health insurance  
i think through our health insurance that i can get better rates as a through a group plan   as opposed to going out and getting health insurance on an individual basis because i had to do that at one time when i wasn't employed with a large corporation  
and that got to be somewhat expensive  
so i   i think one of the benefits i i see is the uh is the group uh group discount  
yes  
yes  
and that's that's one thing i do have  
if i didn't have a family i don't think i would have as as a male or as a as an individual of in this stage of my life  
i don't think i would have insurance uh other  
i don't think i would go through that expense  
one other benefit that you mentioned is the flexible work hours  
and in my previous job i really enjoyed because they had what was called flex schedule where i could go and i could work uh nine hour days and have like friday only work four hours  
or i could do uh work four days a week at ten hours a day and have a you know three day weekend   and make uh make my job flexible in that case  
well basically yeah  
i had to do that uh the same uh for about every quarter of the year  
i mean   uh because i was in a in a position of management i had responsibilities over people that uh i needed to make my schedule uh so that if i was not there i would have coverage by some other management personnel  
so so i i think that uh that was a that was an excellent benefit   that i really enjoyed  
and i don't have that in my current operation  
but uh you mentioned uh flexible work schedule  
and that's that's good  
and uh what other benefits do you think are important  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
well and that's an individual thing  
yeah  
with uh with our current uh organization we do have a nice retirement package  
and also a a nice thing that that we have in our corporation is a uh is a profit sharing plan where we can uh participate in the the profits of the company if we're you know if we've been there a while and we're vested uh which means that you know we have a an interest uh in the company   that we can uh get some of the benefits of the either the profit high times or or in a sense suffer during the low times  
and uh also uh in one of my wife's uh companies where she worked they'd had a real nice profit sharing plan that that  
hi  
fine  
i'm nancy  
how are you  
i'm in plano also  
yes  
we're not too long distance today  
oh that was good  
utah i've had a couple of  
but that was it  
yeah  
learned about their basketball team  
uh jazz  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what i heard   yeah  
yeah  
i am  
okay  
nancy  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
well i'm a little different than other people because i don't have benefits with my job  
i'm a nurse  
and i   work  
i float   so that i have no benefits except higher pay   for doing that  
so i find that it makes up for what i pay for insurance  
and i i make enough money by the hour to make up for that  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's cheaper for me to buy insurance by the month than to work staff someplace  
and then i have my freedom  
i can work seven days in a row and take a week off or whatever i want to do  
well it is to me  
most people prefer the security of nine to five   and weekends off and   knowing that their insurance is paid and their retirement  
and i'm just really not interested in   all that  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
and especially if you have a family  
then i think it makes a big difference  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
right  
could you change that as you felt like it  
or did you have to do it the same every week  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh well i guess   retirement that kind of thing which i don't worry much about so  
i just prefer to worry about today  
probably not a practical attitude  
but that's who i am  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
hello  
how you doing  
i'm lee with uh uh  
i'm over here in plano texas  
oh sure  
oh  
where are you calling from  
or   where are you at  
arlington  
well there's a lot of stuff going on in arlington these days  
are you involved in any of that  
no  
well uh what benefits do  
now do you work  
oh you are  
okay  
yeah  
because i i work for myself  
and so uh there's a lot that i that i guess i do miss uh a lot of benefits from working for a big corporation  
i miss uh   insurance and   uh the steady paychecks that come  
but uh  
oh is that right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i uh i own part of a roofing company  
in the in the dallas fort worth area  
and uh you know unfortunately we we were part of a of a bigger bigger company  
and they uh you know we we had all the benefits there  
and and i do miss that   you know  
but uh on the other hand i i uh i enjoy having the the time   that i have with my family and   being able to you know work when i want  
and  
uh_huh  
oh is that right  
yeah  
it's  
yeah  
it it  
yeah  
i'll tell you what  
that is the single most   uh benefit that i that i enjoyed and i do miss  
because i looked into picking up some uh medical insurance for my just for my family you know just  
and it is unbelievable   how much you have to pay for it  
and uh yeah  
oh yeah  
even at a group rate  
uh it's it's unbelievable  
and uh the amount that you have to pay for you know for kids  
and and if you want to add dental to it i mean that's   that eats even more  
so yeah  
i guess what the other benefits that uh that i uh that i miss i guess is uh you know some of the bonuses and stuff that   that goes on with just being involved with a big company you know  
and course these days you can't count on that because  
uh you know i feel bad for the people that are involved in that uh g m deal there in   in arlington  
and i'm sure it will be you know quite a few people are affected by that  
so  
uh_huh  
oh really  
is that right  
the union  
yeah  
is that right  
yeah  
well  
really the  
yeah  
really the ones it's going to hurt is is actually the the businesses around   in that area  
you know that's the ones that   that that's going to hurt because they depend on that uh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i'll tell you i   i've had my fill of unions  
i  
oh yeah  
hello  
fine  
okay  
let me ask you something can i run a minute and shut my radio off  
okay  
okay  
arlington  
arlington texas  
yes  
yes  
not all good stuff  
no  
no  
i'm not not personally  
i'm going to school right now  
i can tell you about my last job or   whatever you want to talk about that or my husband's or what i think  
i've got a lot of  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
yes  
yes  
i've been in my own business mary kay in fact  
i'm selling in out now to go to school full time  
and   i enjoyed the freedom of having that you know  
go to work when i wanted to or not  
but you know the benefits weren't there  
so  
oh do you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think today the thing that i uh would appreciate the most  
uh because my husband gets   his medical through his company  
but we have   to pay for mine  
and we're the only one i'm the only one that's being insured  
and   and we pay the same amount that someone over there that has four children has i mean  
so it's kind of  
and i would  
i really  
and the way medical expenses are   i think that's probably one of the biggest   benefits   to you need to have  
right  
it's out of sight  
right  
it's out of sight  
even at a group rate i couldn't believe how much   is our  
right  
it goes up  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
it's going to hurt the city  
although uh i will personally tell you i used to work at a bank  
and i would see the g m people come in when they were they would shut down to [retool]  
they were paid that whole time  
and i don't know if you're aware of this  
yes  
they come in there  
just they go off fishing and stuff and come in and every friday and go to the safety deposit box  
and i'm sitting there making a hundred dollars a week you know  
and   and they had all these  
i i really believe they have done this to themselves in a way because of the unions being so [stocked]  
and right now anybody's that's laid off from g m will have a full year's paycheck  
i just read this in the paper the other day  
plus probably an additional six months through the the [worker's] stuff that they have at at uh through the company  
so i'm you know i'm sorry it's happening   because it's going to hurt  
but i don't feel as sorry for them  
if my husband   were laid off tomorrow we'd get one more check  
and that would be it  
yes  
oh yeah  
that's already   hurting  
but i think there's a case   where benefits have gotten  
they voted them in  
and they got so good i mean like two dollars for a prescription   no deductible on the medical all these things you know  
and it made the prices of cars go up  
and   and you know the  
i we i believe in unions  
but they went too far  
i mean i can't make eighteen dollars an hour  
i mean i know someone out here that makes eighteen dollars an hour  
okay bill um  
as you think over the plans and so forth that the company you're working with now  
who do you work with at this time  
you own the company  
all right  
my goodness  
yeah  
i guess you do  
well what what do you think of the  
let's put it this way  
what do you think are the most important benefits for those working for you other than other than their present salary  
uh_huh  
a profit sharing plan  
that's interesting  
uh_huh  
yes  
because they they have a specific reason to do so because they themselves benefit from doing a better job  
uh_huh  
and it's a contribution  
well bill uh that idea fits me exactly  
i just retired from uh the university here  
and that's been the goal in my life was to contribute and to the work that i was doing in my research  
and that's what made me happy  
and uh that's the type of goal i think most people ought to look for  
and i'm sure a lot of them don't  
you can't stand in front of a counter and do that kind of stuff all day and feel like that you're contributing something to a scientific level of knowledge or so forth  
you're a financial planning firm  
how many uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
well what what changes would you have you considered uh in doing it to to your company that might benefit the employees or perhaps the company itself better  
when you say bring in do you mean that they negotiated with people to to come in and uh ask for your support  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
even though they didn't bring it in they help it once it's there  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
but it it might not be necessarily because he did a good or bad job  
but it might be whether the locality there those people want that kind of support  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
well i own the company  
i'm the president and c e o of the company  
so uh i guess uh i determine what the benefits are  
but uh so what are you asking me  
what what benefits i think are most important  
um i'd say in today's economy besides basic benefits uh such as um health insurance and life insurance and the some type of retirement plan   i'd say that uh most of the employees uh um that we have really like a a profit sharing plan  
they like to participate in the profits of the company like they're you know  
because they feel like well we're contributing to it  
so we'd like to participate in it  
and so that means i make a little bit less  
but the thing is that really you make a little more because everybody has a interest in in it working  
right  
i think most people uh don't want money um  
it's been my experience most people want uh to feel like they're participating in something that uh that is not a [drudgery] you know that they   enjoy and that they can get some benefits out of  
right  
yeah  
well uh our people get a lot of satisfaction  
um we're a financial planning firm  
yes  
you said you retired  
i just happen to have a person that i happened to do some planning for this morning  
but   anyway uh uh we do we deal with a lot of people that are retired or trying to retire  
and uh it's real important uh that their benefit plans that they get from their companies and from their work that where they were that uh uh that it take care of them  
they don't  
none of them really want to be rich  
but they like to have enough to be comfortable  
well um we considering instead of tying a profit sharing plan to a a salary is uh is tie um uh a percentage um of business that uh that a person would participate and bring into the company  
uh pay them uh based on the percentage of business they bring instead of based on their salary  
and the  
no  
not necessarily  
um it can be in house people who help you handle x amount of dollars  
right  
well   see we have we have marketing people  
and then we have financial [planners]  
and uh then we have uh staff secretaries and administrative assistants  
and these secretaries and administrative assistants um you know if we don't have their cooperation and they're not participating in the profit of the company they they can get very dissatisfied very quickly  
and so uh we're thinking about paying them instead of a percentage on salary paying them a percentage on the business they handle  
so administrative assistant that would handle two million dollars worth of business is a lot more valuable than a person that handles a hundred thousand dollars worth of business  
and uh  
well and and but to  
see the thing is that they give support to the financial planner that they're the assistant to or that they usually have several people they report to that you know that they work   together with   it encourages them not to uh complain when they realize that they get a part of the of the action based on their efforts and not based on being sitting back saying well make me do it  
see we don't want anybody around here that says make me do it  
i don't think any  
i think most people want to be lack of better terminology they want to be self employed  
but they don't want to take the risk  
in other words they like to control their own future  
but they also want to be somewhat content to go and come as they please   without some real strict [adherence]  
which  
that's what we have  
okay  
um i guess we're going to talk describe uh job benefits  
and so what do you think next to salary do you rank is the most important job benefits  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well um does your company have good benefits in that in that regard  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh well i'm  
my medical coverage is with an h m o  
um so that's in my opinion that's that's [bordering] on a health clinic  
but it seems to be a good way to maintain costs and still provide a good amount of coverage  
um  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
that's right  
yeah  
i'm i'm fairly young myself  
i've only been  
when i first started working which  
three years ago is when i first got into full time employment  
and uh at that time i immediately joined the h m o  
and i never really  
so the only doctor i i've kind of consistently had has been through the h m o  
and uh   you know for me it's worked out real good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um like you you mentioned you work for a school system  
i work for uh georgia tech in the   research branch  
and i guess another one that that i rank up there high is the uh kind of job flexibility and time off um i enjoy as a benefit  
right  
yeah  
getting a lot of breaks   between quarters and that and having a lot of vacation  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well um i'm not actually on the teaching faculty  
but we have a large research organization associated with the university  
and that's who i work with  
um and we're given you know a good bit of flexibility in what we do  
we can kind of pursue our own interests in terms of the research areas that we study  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
are there are there any things that that you'd like to see changed in terms of the the benefits  
uh i would say the medical uh group insurance area   as far as uh covering medical costs for yourself or family members  
yeah  
i think  
i work for a public school system district  
and uh so it's different than a company where most companies fund almost the entire thing  
where the school district does um the employee must pick up a greater figure in the way of uh costs  
but overall um i've been pleased with it over the years  
i think the biggest frustration is because of the cost of insurance going up every year our district has had to [alter] uh you know change companies  
or now we're on a managed care thing which has stressed a lot of people out   although it has not disturbed me any  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
our district did that for the ninety one and the ninety school year or calendar years  
and i was in the h m o  
and um i was because my my same doctor you know agreed to be in it for uh  
they usually sign a contract or something  
and um uh i did have surgery last summer  
and i paid ten dollars when i went to see him that first day  
and i've never seen another bill  
so i   i have to say it really works  
but again i was fortunate because my doctor agreed to be in it  
uh if you've been going to a doctor for you know ten years or something and he [elects] not to join it can be very stressful for   you know those people  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
but if you you know have a family and and um everybody's gone to different doctors uh it is hard to give up somebody who you feel knows you and your body and your just has you know all the medical history  
and you feel comfortable with it  
i i'm sure it would be very stressful  
and my husband and i have just elected that if that happens i will go and just pay  
you can continue to go to your own doctor  
but your benefits are not as you know good  
so uh  
oh all right  
i do too  
are you talking about like spring break  
and  
right  
right  
it it really um  
i don't think most of our teachers  
now i'm not a teacher  
i am a secretarial executive assistant  
but i don't think the teachers could stand the stress all all year long   frankly  
it is just texas has really um you know  
they want everybody educated no matter what it costs  
uh and it it would be just  
we all look forward to  
like in two weeks we have spring break  
and   i don't know who looks forward to it more the students or the teachers and the staff  
what do you do there  
okay  
well that's good  
yeah  
i would think that that type of employment you're you're one day you might be really tuned in and the next day oh a little [luke] warm or something  
and um it's good that they allow you that  
it um  
as i say the schools  
now we do have to work you know the day  
but we do get many days off  
and uh we all look forward to it  
that's the only reason i work there is that my children now have graduated and graduated from college  
but at the   time i worked there because my hours and days were the same as theirs  
and uh i've just continued to uh stay there  
okay  
should begin  
uh i can begin this um  
basically i work for honeywell in minneapolis  
and the the benefit program we have here is really quite good  
i'm i'm pretty pleased with it  
they cover uh just about everything vision dental medical  
uh you name it  
and for me this is the first job i've had where they've covered that much  
so i'm pretty satisfied myself  
um what's your situation  
oh  
uh_huh  
are you a professor there  
oh i see  
okay  
oh no doubt  
right  
well that's good  
yeah  
that's one of the things i guess i would change about honeywell is uh  
i used to work with the army research institute  
and being a uh a government organization you got quite a few holidays off  
but here you don't get that  
you maybe get two or three a year  
so it's really  
unless you unless you have some vacation time or some some sick leave or whatever um you kind of have to [finagle] your way around to get that time  
so that's that's kind of a drawback i think  
but uh i don't know  
what do you consider most important you think in terms of of the different benefits  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know if you saw on twenty twenty the other night  
they uh they basically reviewed [oregon's] plan   or the oregon plan   toward uh [nationalizing] health care and that kind of thing  
it's kind of an interesting plan  
it's kind of cold though  
they've essentially made up a list of uh-oh all the different uh medical [maladies] that you can have   and then basically made a [cutoff]  
about six hundred and eighty seven and below will not be covered by by uh [subsidized] health care  
and the ones above would  
so it's kind of like drawing this line  
and and if you have it great  
if you don't you're kind of out of luck  
but um it was kind of an interesting show  
i think you're right  
i think health care is probably the the most pressing   uh the pressing one  
but i'll tell you i i don't mind having dental you know  
sometimes dental costs can be um just about as expensive if not more  
and i know historically a lot of companies i think carried dental as a rider along with the medical  
but i'm not sure that's that's widely followed any more  
i'm not sure  
how how does uh university of new hampshire handle it  
um  
great  
is that uh let me interrupt is that the same for both uh professors and and also staff and administration  
is that generally across the board do you think  
or  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
right  
yeah  
i'm kind of interested because i'm actually that's the route i'd like to take when i finally get my degree   is to uh is to teach in a university  
i'm a doctoral student in florida right now  
but uh  
yeah  
that's that's interesting  
that's one of the things i'd like to think about is in what kind of benefits they would uh they would cover and things like that  
oh is that right  
okay  
all right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i work for the university of new hampshire  
and   uh our benefits package isn't uh isn't quite as good in some ways uh you know  
overall i'm satisfied with it  
we don't have the vision care  
we do have the health care and the uh and the or the dental  
uh  
no  
i work in i'm a on the professional administrative and technical staff  
and i effectively i run the telephone switch at uh at the university of new hampshire  
uh so the uh the benefits  
uh probably the main thing i like about the benefits is the uh the uh very generous vacation time and sick time  
we get fifteen days a year sick time  
and uh we get twenty four days a year right from the day one when you start work you get twenty four days a year uh time off  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think uh the the health care of course is an important and has to be the single most important benefit  
and uh the rates that we keep paying seem to keep increasing uh   you know  
i'm i'm a little disturbed about that  
but i think that's a national trend  
and i don't know that uh i don't know what the solution is to it  
it's bigger than just the benefits part  
uh_huh  
right  
oh yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
well we have two different plans that we can subscribe to under dental uh depending  
and and the cost between them is very is very little  
i think it costs me something like five dollars a a month for the dental plan  
but it pays uh a substantial amount  
i mean the [examinations] and and uh checkups every year or every six months are free  
and uh it it covers the bulk of the dental expenses  
uh yes  
it is  
the benefits plan is different for operating for what we call operating staff which are considered to be uh clerical personnel [accountants] things like that   as opposed to what they call the p a t staff which i belong to  
but the main  
i think the the health and all that and the dental is the same for everybody and the retirement plan  
but   the main difference is in the uh the way sick time is [accrued] and vacation time is [accrued]  
uh for the operating staff it's on a seniority it's you know based on how long they've worked there  
that determines how much uh vacation time they get  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
college programs belong to this t i a a uh c r e f retirement fund  
right  
and in the case of the university of new hampshire uh  
okay karen  
you're first  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
i guess one of the differences i see is uh working for a university uh there is room for advancement but not so much so our in uh quite a highly [unionized] environment   and then also in the administrative association  
so there is a progressive path  
but not being in the say the commercial sector the motivation isn't there for a lot of people   uh like really  
yeah  
somewhat that  
but then also there just isn't the ability to in one sense have uh a broader scope for rewarding people for their performances  
uh so that's in our situation where we are dealing with an institution  
uh it's a little more difficult to recognize an individual's performance  
and i suppose that's maybe a disadvantage of being in a larger institution perhaps somewhat even with the business uh  
but i agree you know the uh medical benefits and those kinds of things are one of the big pluses of working for a large organization and also the uh security aspect for long term employment uh  
job security  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we are seeing that here as well  
like in some of the large oil companies there has been massive lay offs  
uh so i i think there it's probably a major [distinction] between institutions and the corporate world   in uh institutions are slower to react both on the growth side and then also on the reduction side where the businesses we need to cut back that's what we do  
but  
yeah  
and [institutionally] like here at the university oh if there is a cut back well gee it's not where it necessarily where it's needed  
it's where it's most expedient which   well in one sense for us it's where it makes the least noise which means it's   often the lowest support type roles  
so we  
it's very easy  
yeah  
right  
because it's support people that are providing   the speed for it  
well the uh  
that's maybe the majority of the importance i guess  
yeah  
because my perspective is from an institution  
uh the there is not much incentive for [innovativeness]   because the limitation for reward is very severe  
but if you're in the corporate world i think there is considerable motivation for i guess innovation  
although he you know the more complex your structure the uh less difficult it is to kind of carry some things through  
but uh i think there is uh it's a long term type of process where in a small organization it's uh things can happen much more quickly  
and so you can see the reward of the efforts  
right  
yeah  
you end up being your own person  
and uh if you do your job fine and if somebody else is messing it up well then that's their problem  
and   you know you really  
yeah  
yeah  
it becomes the organization instead of person being you know a part of the individual themselves  
okay  
i was just going to say i think one of the biggest thing for me is room for advancement you know not to get in like in a dead end job  
and plus for me it's uh i mean like medical and you know uh benefits and dental  
they're also important  
um  
um  
are they like pretty much train for a specific job  
and that what i hired for and then i just very little variation from that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you know that's interesting though  
because i don't know if that's necessarily the case anymore  
i use to think that you know after you work  
you mean security job security  
uh that use to be i think a couple of years ago  
but i don't know if it is so much anymore  
in fact they we just had a lay off in what november i guess  
but uh it wasn't necessarily  
i mean you know some people had been there a long time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no doubt  
yeah  
expedient  
yeah  
that's exactly it  
yeah  
where the most dollar where where you know it cuts back the most  
oh  
oh  
see yeah  
yeah  
i think that's one of the things too  
you get too many management people you know  
yeah  
and it's very easy for them to say oh this is the best way when they really aren't aware of what all it took to get the work done you know  
and then they wonder why it doesn't get done in the same amount of time  
well those people aren't there anymore  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but  
so what else do you think is important  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think probably in a small  
yeah  
i was going to say more it's more personal for one thing  
you probably have a better team uh cooperation or team playing atmosphere  
probably where as in a bigger corporation i think you're just a number you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
whereas yeah in a smaller  
i think you would be more willing to either help that person or help it get accomplished you know  
uh_huh  
uh guy  
uh some of my things  
i i'd like to have a short work week   you know  
and and we need you know better health insurance and you know  
okay  
okay  
okay  
so i just press one then  
right  
okay  
ready  
okay  
well well right now i i'm just a student  
i only work part time  
but i've work in the job force before  
and forty hours is just too long  
you just don't have any time to do anything  
it seems like saturday you get get off  
but sunday you're getting ready for monday  
and if we get have a   if we could have a thirty two hour work week with that happen is that for every four people we could give another job  
and then that way everybody would have a three day holiday okay  
and that way that more that would make a bigger market  
we'd have uh more recreation  
people would have time to do it  
there would be less of a stress level  
we'd have we'd have less crime  
we'd have to we'd have to build less prisons you know less police force  
it it that's that's a possibility  
one one of the problems they're facing now a lot of people now is that the health insurance is that the small business can't can't offer health insurance  
and it it's too costly  
and what what is happening is that they're on a policy where they have x amount of users in it okay  
so they get a specific rate  
well what happens is that if people start becoming having chronic illness and and things like that  
what happened and where they really have to spend out a lot of money   for one particular  
it's called a a group  
well what will well what happens then is that they cancel because they just can't cancel an individual  
so they they have to cancel just like life insurance  
they have to cancel everything  
so what they do is that that they cancel the insurance  
and then all the people don't have any insurance coverage  
but i'm i'm you know i'm i'm satisfied with my job  
i'm i'm an engineering student  
and i work for my instructor  
and i'm i'm not a typical student  
i'm i'm older  
i'm i'm in my thirties okay  
and so i have a lot of job experience  
and my instructor [thrives] on that because he can just tell me what he wants  
and he can give me access and tell me what to do and just turn me loose  
but in in the same token it's a very really enjoyable for me because i don't have to have you know nobody breathing down my back  
and   and one of the things that i i really hate about jobs i don't i don't like bosses that that you know want to yell at you and you know are down on your back and all this and that  
i i just really can't deal with that  
so  
what kind of what kind of jobs have you done  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's just great  
you have what you might call knowledge power  
you know when when you work at a company whether you know it or not is that you're [categorized]  
some people can be let go and replaced like uh say uh a typist uh somebody who does data entry or answers the telephone or receptionist  
but if you're a person who that's doing computer type things and you have the you have the knowledge you know what the system you've [revised] and revamped the system well then you're you're vital to the company  
and you get more benefits  
so that's where i i i'm like  
i'm into computers too  
and that's one of the things that i've found in any one one of these jobs and anything i've done is that to have knowledge  
when you have the knowledge you're you're not going to uh you know be let go  
be one of the last ones to let go anyway  
so what i  
oh okay  
okay  
we can start off there  
let's just get started  
if you don't want to you know uh talk about it now and then   be bored when we get to it  
right  
yep  
so so you think uh i think that a short work week is real nice  
uh i have a thirty seven hour work week  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it all makes sense to me  
although there may be more crime i mean if people have more leisure time  
it's not clear  
and that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
so  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well well i do uh research in computer science  
and i've just been doing that for a few years now  
so   uh i my job has most of the benefits i want  
uh what i really like is i like being  
like they send me to conferences for instance but probably not as much as i'd like  
but uh you know that's just nice being you know having a company being able to give you time to do that sort of thing and sort of  
uh they also  
a really important thing to me is when they uh they pay for continuing education  
like i i get night courses that they they'll cover right now  
and that's really good  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
um are you working right now  
uh  
what kind of what kind of work do you do  
uh_huh  
oh  

is that how you heard about this thing  
uh  
uh_huh  
me too  
i work at uh the georgia tech research institute  
um i'm a co op student  
so i work and go to school about halftime  
and uh i really don't have any job benefits to speak of  
we're kind of um  
i don't know  
they just kind of forget us on that end  
we don't really have any vacation or you know sick days or health care or anything really  
so  
exactly  
exactly  
what about you  
huh  
yeah  
uh they do that i think if you're uh research here  
then i know of some of the people that have gotten their masters  
and i think that um they might you know pay for that   pay for the classes and stuff  
but i know they let you they'll let you decrease how many hours you work by kind of percentage  
you know they'll let you work halftime if you want to if you want to finish  
you want to  
yeah  
they'll let you work decrease your number of hours by any percentage just just about so if you want to get your masters  
and then i think of course you get like a with your extra degrees you get a pay raise due  
so   that will probably help out  
but   do you get any kind of health care type stuff  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think   i mean that's pretty that's a pretty important uh part of it there because that that can be really expensive if you ever have any health problems  
my dad i think my  
i'm still covered on with my dad's uh health plan at his where he works  
but   it would definitely be something to look into once i get my own  
uh_huh  
they have  
well the only i think the i guess the only real um benefit i guess you could say working for me working here besides i mean  
i'm learning and stuff because   i'm at you know in school  
but   there's there's some weird law where uh uh student employees working for the government   don't have to pay social security tax  
though   that's about   five percent right there  
so  
that's about the only real bonus  
i have so i have to take that into consideration when i evaluate like how much i get paid real you know because if i was working somewhere else i'd have to you know pay an extra five percent   or so  
huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
help a lot  
yeah  
see around around here it's like uh  
we pretty much work from project to project on well you know with different sponsors  
there's not there is not a whole lot of you know funded research from  
uh yes  
i am  
i'm working in the computer science department here   uh at c m u  
uh i'm doing basically system system design   work and uh [implementation] work for the speech for the speech group   uh here  
yeah  
actually through electronic mail  
uh_huh  
right  
so it's pretty fair they've got you [slaving] away   at at this point  
yeah  
well um i'm research stuff here now  
so what they they have uh um okay benefits package  
it's not quite as good as industry  
but one of the significant um benefits here is that you can take uh up to two courses a semester um  
and they pay for   you know pay for the classes  
so   carnegie mellon that works out to be um a reasonable a reasonable benefit  
uh_huh  
if you want to   do it quickly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so i i don't know in in terms of other things other benefits other than sort of monetary  
i'd you know i  
yeah  
we we do  
we have to contribute a certain amount uh to it  
and it's kind of split between c m u and   and you know the employee  
right  
yeah  
and it's also right now it's uh the  
like everywhere else uh  
here in pittsburgh the health care uh rates are are going up pretty quickly  
that's a whole other topic   to begin with too  
but  
yeah  
but it's you are right  
i i i really agree that that that's pretty important  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
now that's a big win  
yeah  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
yeah  
i figured for  
and they've just raised the um income caps on social security to the point where   you have to be pretty you have to be pretty well off before you stop paying   paying that as well  
yeah  
well if you could call it a benefit that c m u i mean  
the other thing that they allow you to do here while you are working is is [consult] for um you know other companies  
um so that's that kind of helps out in terms of   you know keeping up to date with contacts in industry  
you know in case   you know in case you ever need to bail out  
uh_huh  
so uh do you happen to be working for a large firm  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh i work for a fairly large company  
it's got eight thousand people  
and uh we do have health insurance  
we don't have four o one k plan stuff like that  
but we do have like retirement  
they kind of match up to you  
if you put six percent they match up to six percent  
and then the rest is whatever you want to put in if you put more than that or something like that  
it's not bad  
god i don't know  
it's probably a long time  
i'm sure it's not till like twenty five years thirty years  
yeah  
huh well i guess what we have is like a what they call a flex benefits plan where you you get like a certain amount of dollars  
and then you spend it on a cafeteria of whatever you want or need  
otherwise you can uh guess you can put also put money hold money back and then either use or lose it and that doesn't get taxed or can just have that money you know put in your paycheck  
yeah  
well it depends on which company you work for  
i know that like the the the one plan that everyone seems to be in in my place is uh you know you uh think you call it plan d  
deductibles are really high  
it's like fifteen hundred dollars  
but if you go for the other ones you're paying too much money for them because it's unlikely if you're relatively uh healthy then it's really unlikely that you'd use that much amount of money you know  
so it you know someone did start a cost benefit analysis  
and ends up the best is to take a high deductible and and take a loss whatever it happens to be if you happen to be a healthy individual  
um  
really  
you mean not even your your your car insurance  
oh that's too bad  
yeah  
uh well i don't know  
i think other than health insurance i think uh you know an extra week of uh time off would be nice  
i only get two weeks  
oh that's nice  
we don't get them till till your seventh year of service till   you get an extra week  
yeah  
it's uh  
uh with the [telecommunications] type of company supposedly you used to be much more stable  
it's a lot less stable than it used to be  
they used to have job security crap  
but now they don't  
yeah  
it's the bell corps which is uh  
yeah  
so i don't know  
it's it's uh no longer  
so that's what  
i think it's still based on the old model of  
and and now they don't uh  
yeah  
yeah  
but they no no longer  
i don't think so  
uh hearing a  
there's always they're always laying people off which is another benefit that you can have other than salary is trade that off for security  
oh i don't know  
we don't we haven't been doing layoffs  
we've been doing uh down [sizing] with uh getting rid of extra layers of management  
and uh i don't know what they do for those people  
some of it  
yeah  
there's too many manage too many chiefs and not enough indians  
but  
well it's about three hundred and fifty people  
i guess that's not large compared to some  
but it's big enough  
and they have a they don't have any kind of pension plan where they contribute anything  
and i wish they did  
you know they have a four o one k  
but i put all the money into it  
they don't add anything  
what about you  
uh_huh  
oh that's a pretty good deal  
now how long does it take for your contribution to [vest]  
yeah  
the place i work [at's] health insurance is kind of expensive  
it's like hundred bucks a a month or something   for a family  
yeah  
we have one of those use it or lose it plans too where uh they'll basically pay for uh you know child care type uh expenses  
i can send in a uh can send in a request for payment  
and they'll uh and they'll send me you know a check for the amount they withheld  
that's pretty good you know  
it's uh it saves a third off on taxes or something  
yeah  
i guess  
uh on the other hand you know i i had a similar had a similar health plan  
and uh one of my kids was in a car accident  
and uh   i had wound up having to pay for you know a bunch of doctor visits and stuff out of my pocket because of you know no no insurance policy happened to cover it which is  
well it it got all screwed up because i had a high deductible on the health insurance no fault here  
and and i had a high deductible on the on the uh on the car insurance  
and then you know we just goofed up the medical insurance and the car insurance and stuff and blew it  
oh well  
yeah  
yeah  
my place you get two weeks when you start  
and then every every year they give you an extra day until you've got four weeks  
aye  
that's a long time  
yeah  
especially in the kind of engineering job i'm in you know companies don't stay [afloat] that long  
and and they  
so you work for bell or something like that  
right  
right  
a lifelong job security  
telephone   pioneers of america  
all that stuff huh  
right  
is it i mean does it  
they must have pretty good [severance] though huh  
mean the the the management they get rid of  
um  
oh they they put  
uh so uh what are your benefits like at your job  
and how do you feel about them  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
what kind of a degree have you got  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how long have you been with them  
uh  
that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but for all   practical purpose you are almost a hundred percent covered  
so that you've got small small things to gripe about  
wow  
well that sounds like you must feel really good about it  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
well i uh work in washington at the naval research laboratory  
i also have a part time job at a law firm  
and i get no benefits from them at to the part time work although they pay better per hour   than my my sort of quote real job does  
uh and benefits through the government are uh really  
uh they just uh they're not the greatest  
uh i before i i uh uh got my degree  
i'm uh a computer scientist  
and before i got my degree i had uh done paralegal work   for law firms here in washington  
and uh at that time i was in gravy city  
uh the law firms in this town are not you know  
for a long time were just rolling in the dough in the   early eighties  
and uh benefits were just amazing  
and we had everything paid for  
and uh anyway with the government it's not uh quite that nice a deal  
uh but it's you know it's it's okay  
what we have to do is we have to pay uh about twenty percent of our uh uh our costs  
and it's deducted from our check each month and that sort of thing  
and the plans that are available to us uh range from kind of mediocre to really sweet  
and uh so i i think i'm actually involved in a relatively good plan at this point  
uh but uh it could be better  
that's for sure  
and uh but you know   there are other things that you get when you work for the government uh in in terms of uh more relaxed atmosphere  
it's really nice to be for me anyway to be able to work in uh a research atmosphere uh where i don't have to uh uh you know worry about uh academics or anything like that  
and so i'm i'm really kind of happy about that end of of things  
it's uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
that's fabulous  
you see now that's that's interesting  
because i have a cousin whose husband works for hewlett packard   up in the massachusetts area  
he he lives in [andover]  
and uh the work that he  
he's uh specifically an engineer and and does work with uh the hewlett packard machines that do uh uh [sonographic] [imagining]  
and uh i've been over to see his complex over there  
and it's amazing  
it's it's all ecologically designed  
and and uh he seems really really happy with the the set up  
and  
uh_huh  
uh pretty good actually  
i work for hewlett packard  
and they have uh a pretty good uh benefits package  
in fact they're they're kind of known uh for having good benefits  
the pay isn't fabulous  
although i saw a survey recently  
and i'm actually making just about as much as you know i'm making actually over average over the average   for my career my experience and all that stuff   which kind of surprised me  
i've got a bachelor's in electrical engineering  
so  
and i'm not like a [hugely] advanced degree or any of that stuff  
uh anyway the our benefits are pretty good  
we've got stock purchase program and a  
that that's pretty generous although you have to hold the stock for two years   before you get the company contribution which is kind of a a pain  
but uh there's a four o one k plan   uh for uh [sheltering] some [taxable] income  
uh there's  
i've been with them for seven years  
yeah  
and the best thing and a lot of the stuff the best thing is like four years or five years it's pretty soon you're   completely vested in the retirement plan and everything  
so uh it's not  
but there's full uh there's several medical plans to choose from uh that cover pretty much everything  
i don't get sick that often  
so i don't pay much of it  
and i pay five dollars every time i visit the the hospital   that you know for a checkup or whatever  
uh they don't cover eyes though  
and i i have contact [lenses]  
so that's kind of a pain  
but you know i   i can live  
oh yeah  
yeah  
right  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
and and the dental plan is fabulous  
the dental plan i pay absolutely nothing because uh  
i i guess they would charge a little bit if there was some [orthodontia] or something for one of my dependents or something like that  
but   that's not the case  
so i guess nothing  
it's fabulous  
uh the  
what about you  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
one of the things with my company is that they've uh got a reputation for a lot of job security  
and uh   there's a lot of different things that they do lot of different divisions even this area in the san francisco bay area that they do  
so there's  
i myself have moved around quite a bit within the company  
and it's and i and i haven't had to move my residence to do that  
you know i still live in san jose  
and  
yeah  
it  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
in fact i know a guy who works at [andover] who used to work who i used to work with out here  
and he moved his family back east a few years ago to to take that position  
kind of interesting  
uh anyhow  
what sort of company do you work for  
do you work for a big or a little place  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
well i i work for uh actually probably similar kind of place  
i work for uh lincoln laboratory  
uh yeah  
we actually do some work with some people down at georgia tech  
uh and uh  
so we're we're part we're actually part of m i t  
so it's very much the same kind of place and uh   the technical institution  
uh while i was sitting here waiting while they tried to find somebody for me to talk to trying to think of what uh uh what things were important uh besides salary and a and a job i guess uh list i had [scribbled] down was the people you worked with and maybe the uh the challenge of the work and uh   the working conditions things like that  
i don't know  
what are your uh what sorts of things would you consider important  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now how do you mean that  
i know it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you you think it's better than to to try to spread the the effort equally among all the employees of the company  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've heard of a couple of companies that have done that  
i think uh back about a few years ago when things were tough hewlett packard did that for awhile  
they went to a uh a a four and a half day work week rather   than cut yeah just cut everybody back ten percent   and uh have to give everybody a half day a week off  
and i think you can do that for a little while  
but i'm  
yeah  
uh i work for georgia tech  
yes sir  
i work for the research facility  
uh and it's it's kind of small in a sense  
but it it does have about uh i guess two thousand civil employees  
and on a a scale i guess it's still considered small  
it just have a lot of different laboratories  
the area i work in it it primarily have maybe a hundred people or so  
so that's make up most of the laboratory  
so from from that standpoint it's pretty small   it's pretty small  
what about yourself  
oh okay  
oh okay  
i see  
oh okay  
right uh  
uh_huh  
right  
well those and probably the security aspect of it  
because a lot of time nowadays even though you're working uh you're treated  
and it may not be true in every place  
in a lot of cases i think you're treated more like a number instead of a a person  
because when it come down to layoff they don't really consider people and and you know their well being as far as you know how they going their next dollar going to come in  
how they going to pay their bills  
they just lay them off  
and i was reading this book one time about this guy that had uh  
i think the company still exists  
what they use to do is they used to cut the number of hours for everybody as opposed to just laying people off   you know  
that way that you know one person wouldn't get one big [blunt] blow at one time  
and uh you know i think if they had programs that set up to subsidize people that do get laid off a little bit better you know other than you know something like  
unemployment is good  
but i mean the company as a whole  
because you as an employee even the company is making money  
they paying you a salary  
but you are responsible for that company growth  
you're responsible also for helping that company get to the point that it's at at making profits  
so there should be something in there or some kind of [clause] that will subsidize people if they did lose their job other than you know uh neglect or something like that  
you know because it's not a person's fault that you know people not buying or businesses are are not on the up and up all the time you know  
i don't see how one or two people maybe more one or two but you know a number of people can can be the downfall of a company situation  
well in a sense that say how do you make a a conclusion that you're going to lay off these ten people   uh for the bad times of the company  
what about the the work effort those ten people did when the company was doing well  
you know in that standpoint  
yes  
i do  
i really do  
i think it'd be better that way  
and even at that it would at least give the person time to look for another job because   they know that that there are problems  
and you know there are reason to look for another job   instead of just dumping it on them all at one time  
you know that's just that's my views you know  
right  
right  
right  
well at least that would give a person a chance to look   you know because the way it is a person really don't have a chance  
well uh preferred benefits uh  
i worked for a large corporation in the past  
and i think large corporations can give better benefits than small corporations because right now i'm working for a very small corporation where the owner is right there  
and uh there is a lot of profit that's coming in  
but when it comes to uh small corporations they seem to pocket it a little bit quick quickly or whatever or however you want to say it  
and uh the benefits aren't as great when i worked for a big corporation because the big corporations seem to look at its employees and say okay  
we've got this amount of money  
let's put into this plan this plan  
you got four oh one k plans  
you have uh better vacation plans uh  
you have just in general maternity leave plans   that kind of thing  
big corporations are able to do that versus small corporations uh you know  
they just don't have the money or just feel that there isn't the need for it  
so i've worked for both big and small  
so i've had a chance to kind of take a look at uh the pros and cons of both  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
that's pretty good for you know being a a school district type program  
uh_huh  
wow  
that's extremely good  
like the small corporation that i work for there's no pension plan  
there's no type of uh savings of any sort that the company will reimburse you for  
there's really  
i think you're allowed so many times uh i think two or three days a a year  
it's not [accumulative] type of sick leave   uh you know things like that  
so i've been looking at big corporations and saying the big corporation that i've worked for in the past had the pension plans had the big health health care uh  
you had your insurance  
and you didn't have to pay in as much as if you go to a a very small place  
uh they don't have as good as insurance packages as big corporations  
and  
uh_huh  
sure  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
is it a union  
uh_huh  
oh that's pretty good  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
and that's true  
i mean it does end up being quite a bit when you have to hire somebody for that position sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
well that's it you know  
and and i've kind of looked around uh at that uh too  
because uh salary wise i don't think i'm making as much with a big corporation because i think when you look at big corps or large  
i'm talking like hugh companies like three m uh i'm uh honeywell uh texas instruments  
i know people that are that have vacation times and benefits that i wouldn't even dream of in a small corporation  
you bring it up to the owner  
and it's like come on you know  
partly it's because the owner wants to keep getting richer and richer  
and and of course when it's a small corporation it also wants to expand  
so that money is spent  
uh_huh  
right  
well i've worked for uh well i worked for h and r block here in massachusetts   for awhile  
and the only  
they even hate to give out unemployment   at the end of tax season because   they you know they're fairly even though they're a large scale company they're very   the offices the individual offices are very small  
and now i work for the framingham school system because i'm a teacher  
and uh we have much better benefits you know in the system  
we have a good pension plan  
uh let me see we have a profit sharing plan to a degree  
right  
and we have the eye glasses the health care   and the whole kit and [caboodle] because what   they did is they threw all the town employees in together  
yeah  
really  
oh  
right  
the only trouble we've had here in massachusetts is the town and state employees   have run into problems especially the retired ones  
my father's retired from the town of framingham  
and he said that they haven't gotten a a cost of living raise   in over   five years  
and he said that's the only thing that really stinks as far as being retired  
and   but i hear that bill is in the senate right now  
and it's hopefully   will go through  
but uh you know i think the schools are at where the schools isn't just the school system   and not just the teachers  
they took in the whole town plus all you know  
uh we have the teachers union   which helps out a lot  
but the town of framingham pays the benefits  
and   that's all the town workers water and sewer  
and where it's a very large town  
it's actually should be a city  
but they kept it a town  
uh where it's extremely large they were able to offer a little bit more which was   really great because we don't have to pay a mayor  
right  
because of most of our you know the town employees as far as uh electoral positions are part time  
so it works out good because we   reap the benefits of it  
and uh but as far as shopping for a job i'd rather shop for the benefits than the salary  
right  
right  
okay  
what would you rather have  
or you want salary too plus what  
what's most important to you  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'll tell you  
i think that is the most important thing  
i've uh i'm not working right at the moment  
but the company that i did work for  
excuse me i had health benefits you know dental vision all that pension plan uh  
now i don't have that although i do have a pension that i'm drawing from them which thank god i had  
but uh man i think those medical benefits are the most important uh  
right  
uh i should knock on wood  
i haven't you know had any serious health problems or anything  
i've only probably been to the doctor a couple of times since i left work  
and it was only for a cold you know  
and they can't really do anything for you anyhow  
so you might as well not even go  
yeah  
right  
oh you've got a cold  
go home and take uh [liquids] and uh rest  
but  
uh that is definitely the most important  
uh pension i guess is next  
uh thank god that i had one  
i don't know what happened to the salary employees when uh the company went bankrupt  
but i was union  
so mine was being put into a like a trust fund you know  
so but i don't know if they ever got anything or if they lost all of theirs  
or  
yeah  
that's what i was thinking too  
i really feel sorry for all those people that spent all that time there you know  
so where  
what company do you work for  
um uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i i worked for a trucking company p i e nation wide  
you probably heard of that  
oh does she really  
oh how about that  
well you did  
well ryder and p i e went together   you know  
and then then that ended it  
it really did  
it's it started i think a little bit before that  
but that  
when p i e and and ryder went together why that was downhill from then on you know  
right  
right  
yes  
it was over three hundred fifty dollars a month if we wanted to continue our own benefits  
we could do that for eighteen months  
but three hundred and fifty dollars a month  
god that's terrible   you know  
so but anyhow uh and jobs aren't that hard to find to get another one that does pay your benefits you know  
and a lot of them that  
if you do get a job they don't pay benefits  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
but you know what's happening is the disability plan you know  
so many people are lying about their things  
god there's been big articles in the paper about that  
uh you know they claim a back injury  
and then someone goes out and [spies] on them  
and they're lifting refrigerators into trucks and   and everything else you know  
so i don't know what's happening and what's going to happen  
but uh  
well as far as tangible benefits go i would say that uh health insurance of all forms is probably my next most important concern  
i feel that a company that can provide good health benefits such as health care dental and vision   as well as good long term and short term disability plans uh goes a long way toward satisfying my needs  
right  
you you really don't realize how important they are until you find yourself on the other side of the fence without them and having to cover your own medical  
and uh you can quickly see where they become a very important part of your your compensation package  
yeah  
they look at you say well you're still breathing so uh   yeah  
right  
i suspect that it just disappeared  
right  
uh i work for a little start up company here in pittsburgh called [trans] ark uh  
have you heard of them  
they  
we do uh [distributive] system software   for unix based [workstations]  
so  
ah yes  
yes  
in fact my mom drives trucks  
so  
yes  
so yeah  
i see uh  
after the merger uh you see a lot of ryder pie stuff on the road  
so did did ryder get out of the business  
is that what happened or  
right  
huh  
so that the merger pretty much ended the whole thing  
yeah  
and the the problem with that is you know when you leave a job you can continue your benefits for some finite period of time  
but when when the company goes bankrupt i mean the they're just cut off completely  
and you're responsible for your own  
and and that's exceedingly expensive  
right  
it's definitely excessive  
true  
yeah  
they're starting to to cut back especially start ups  
i know here at [trans] ark we get uh we get health care  
and that's it  
i mean there's no dental or vision  
and the the short term disability policy is is a ninety day policy  
and there is no long term disability policy  
so you know at least in the case of this particular company they tend to [scrimp] a little bit there  
and you know of course they can use the excuse  
well we're start up  
right  
well that certainly doesn't help matters any  
i mean you you get people who are willing to put their neck on the line to get you you know these additional benefits  
uh i think uh actually i'm fairly pleased with the benefits that we have at the uh working for a large corporation  
and for me there's absolutely no question what's the most important benefit  
i think it's health care  
it's what  
i think everybody would say that  
right  
belonging to a group is the belonging to a health group is probably the most important protection you can have after you  
uh the uh  
sometimes i think it's more important than salary  
yes  
and uh i don't know if i would rank that second  
but uh since i have three boys uh it it can turn out to be important  
yeah  
you know  
in a in a given year dental dental expenses can really kill you  
right  
right  
it's uh  
right  
uh and then uh uh if the cleaning doesn't get you the [orthodony] will  
uh i guess that would be up there  
uh i'm not sure if i would rank uh how i would rank that next to say compared to retirement  
or uh uh uh [pretax] savings was another thing that i think is a   a great a great benefit  
and i i think it's really something that the uh the government ought to encourage more because uh there are all these complaints about how we're not a saving country   and where the average savings rate is something like four percent in this country and fifteen percent in uh germany and japan uh  
right  
when you have the when you have the uh the economy to scale and everything that a large corporation has and you can uh offer some incentive  
and if the government goes along by not taxing it when you put it aside   you can really build up uh the savings and the that you wouldn't otherwise do  
and  
leave  
you know i i don't think so yet  
they may have uh just plain parental leave which either one can take  
uh i their uh i know their maternity leave is on the order of six weeks which i think is too short uh  
uh uh i really think that we need to get into the mold where we talk about years rather than months or weeks  
right  
and uh  
there  
there ought to be uh uh some compromise that could where uh where the person would be guaranteed a uh career type position but not necessarily a continuation of exactly the same position   uh in exchange for a longer period of time  
it's uh it's so important to families then  
and uh and yet anybody whose gotten far enough to get a good salary is really reluctant to give that up  
uh  
that  
yeah  
you're right  
i think you've put your finger on the one benefit that i that i would most like to see uh changed uh the uh parental leave  
right  
right  
they do it by [shortchanging] their kids  
there's no other way i mean   uh unless they're part of some extended family which is unlikely uh  
people moving as much  
and uh they just it's just a terrible choice  
you shouldn't have to make it  
uh you're right  
and uh  
oh right  
boy  
would i like to have that  
yeah  
oh listen i have friends in a lot of different cities  
if you just fly me there  
i'll take care of that  
right  
so and uh i guess the  
right  
oh and if you try to get it outside of your corporation you're going to pay an arm and a leg  
right  
uh do you also get dental  
oh i know  
now my husband is with uh northwest airlines  
and he gets uh you know the full health and dental  
and uh we have four children  
and what you pay just to have teeth cleaned is outrageous  
and i don't know how people that don't have it can afford it  
or maybe they don't  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well it's a lot easier to to save it when you don't get your hands on it first  
right  
uh what about what about uh lesser uh benefits perhaps for you but for for the women in the in the corporation  
for example uh-oh  
yeah  
do they even do they have father leaves or anything like that  
uh_huh  
oh i do too  
oh i think i think it's just a crying shame uh   for a mother to have to go back to work at six weeks  
she isn't [recovered]  
and uh   the infant needs her desperately   at that point and time  
uh_huh  
right  
i agree  
oh sure  
especially in this day and age  
you don't want to start over again anywhere  
well i think they're at they're they've come a long way   uh at least some companies some of them uh my girlfriend in particular that works for a a rental car agency  
and uh as manager and uh they have a very very poor leave policy  
and uh i just don't know how how women do it  
particularly single parents who don't have the support at the other end uh  
that's right  
that's exactly right  
right  
uh_huh  
one of the benefits we get of course is travel  
it's wonderful  
the only trouble is that you can afford to go anywhere  
but you can't afford to stay once you get there  
that's right  
you have to have an awful lot of fun  
just just getting there is has to be half the fun  

see when you're with a big company or a big organization a lot of times uh you know the benefits are good  
and and you know the pay is regular  
but uh you know sometimes you don't get tuned in to what's going on  
and i i think the biggest benefit or the biggest benefit other than wages that that uh that anybody could get in in dealing with a large company is to be in a situation where you you get to know what's going on  
and maybe that's that's probably the toughest thing in the whole world to to do  
what's what's your feeling about benefits  
what sort of benefits would you like to get from a big company  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
i   i well i work for the government  
and uh actually i work for the f b i  
and uh and so you know we we don't there's lots of things that we don't get told for good reason  
but uh but basically uh there's lots of things that that we should know about projects  
i'm an engineer you know  
i'm i'm a [cotr]  
and  
and i i worked in the same lab with a guy  
and we didn't really know that much about each other's projects for two years  
and we should have  
you know we're we're now [collaborating]  
and  
for two years we didn't and we which was a kind of stupid  
but uh but our organization is doing something else on monday  
uh we're having a for all [unclassified] programs we're we're having little tables put up in front of lab in the hallways  
and every all the other employees are going to come around and see what sort of things we do which i thought was kind of interesting and   but uh but that that sort sort of thing  
but if you i think you can tolerate a lot of problems if you understand what's going on  
and and but of course most time most of the time management has a hard time distributing or getting the word out to the people who must know  
and you know if you don't really count if you're not part of the program you might not get told for months  
or you might you know if it doesn't impact you directly or if your management doesn't think that  
but but regard to benefits you know most companies have most big organizations have decent you know benefits like retirement and that sort of thing  
in the private sector i would think that one of the major uh situations especially when you reach you know the the mid fifties is keeping a job until you retire  
and engineers are uh are baggage to most uh uh as they get older to to most companies  
and uh it's very much like the military  
it windows out  
you know you you think well boy i'm getting more money  
and i'm getting more responsibility  
i'm doing this  
but as you climb up that tree pretty soon you're the the branches get smaller on the top of the tree  
and pretty soon somebody falls off  
i i've fallen off twice in the private sector  
and uh and you know i can get up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
he may be retired  
well since i'm kind of on the the older side you know i i i just feel like uh when i start talking about benefits i talk about i'm concerned about medical benefits  
uh my uh my husband works for mcdonald douglas  
and so his benefits his medical benefits are so excellent you know  
that's really great  
you know i work for uh a bank western financial  
and uh they don't let me know really about anything that's going on  
even some of the immediate things that i need to know i don't know it until the next hour  
and all of a sudden we know we've got changes made  
we're changing departments  
we're changing policies  
we're changing doing other kinds of things which to me is is disturbing  
i mean i feel like if i i don't necessarily need to uh be involved since i'm pretty much on a low level  
you are you are right there  
you know i'm pretty much on a low level as far as uh the company is concerned  
but i i do kind of like to know what's going on and what's happening  
and i think i can be a better and more effective employee if if i   had a little bit more information along that line  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
oh  
and it it  
yeah  
that is interesting  
exactly  

right  
uh_huh  
oh  
i know  
it it seems to be be kind of kind of scary you know because you think of  
uh see my son's eighteen right now  
and he he's uh he wants to go into engineering  
and the the the branches of engineering that he wants to go into is now kind of open  
and he's interested in basically three different areas  
but uh it's difficult for me to try to give him any kind of advice or to advise him or anything like that  
he needs to do his own course of investigation and and see what he can do because who knows what's going to happen in another thirty years  
and in thirty years it becomes pretty critical  
i mean my uh brother in law is like uh i mean he's sixty  
he's not ready to retire  
but his company is is uh is uh closing up  
and because of the defense cutbacks and all that kind of stuff and all the nuclear and stuff which is what he what he was working on he's getting cut back  
and he's not ready to retire  
okay  
uh i just currently quit my job  
and so i really don't receive any benefits right now  
but my husband does  
and uh i think one of the uh my  
first of all always salary and  
the second thing is uh because we have children  
so it would be uh health benefits and medical benefits  
and   and uh right now we have probably some excellent benefits right now  
we have with aetna  
and uh i don't know if you're familiar with them  
but we're real happy with them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh and and and another good thing is with the health benefits when they give you more than two choices on who to go with  
and that really helped us out a great deal  
so  
but my husband does get vacation  
and it's worked out really good for us too  
so  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's great that you all can work that out  
that's really good  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's the same with my husband cause he's got pretty flexible hours if as long as he puts in the hours he needs to do  
worked out really well for us too  
uh well is there anything else that you look for  
or  
you've hit pretty  
you've put a lot of the main points in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and that does make a a person want to stay  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
yeah  
yeah  
i've had a variety of different jobs with a various types uh in the computer field  
and so i've seen a variety of types of benefits  
uh i've worked for for for awhile  
and they are you know a really academic type of place  
and then i've worked with regular you know industry type places and then with others that are kind of half way between and stuff  
so i've seen a wide range of both you know [nonsalary] type benefits and other stuff you know like health care that's either fully or partially paid  
and you know some have like bonuses  
and others have had lots of vacation time but not much other types of benefits  
and   so yeah i would  
i'd say health care is way up there especially anybody with kids  
uh   and that's one of the big things that we always look at you know when we when i think about changing jobs is you know you know what kind of health care they have  
and does the company pay for it you know all or partially  
or how does that work  
and uh also uh vacation time too is a is a big one for me   uh and i guess support for whatever whatever other   you know kinds of professional activities you have at you know work  
uh cause i've   been at places which offer a lot of support and others that don't offer any and   some that sometimes that's [coincided] with a place that offers more vacation time though  
so that's not so bad you know  
you know it's kind of a give and take kind of thing i think  
uh i say that health care is probably definitely number one though  
want to just you know all your salary can't even begin   to pay for what you can wind up losing you know   in a major illness or something uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
flexible hours are are pretty important to me as well  
uh cause that makes a big difference  
my wife works part time  
and she works uh as a assistant manager in a fabric store  
and so she works a lot of evenings and weekends  
and so two days a week i uh manage to get home early enough to meet the kids on the bus  
so she you know goes in early those days and works like you know noon til close  
uh so we have  
yeah  
and being on a you know rigid schedule wouldn't there wouldn't be anyway to do that at all  
and i think it's kind of neat to be able to spend the afternoons with the kids occasionally too  
i mean usually you know you go to work before they're awake or as they're getting up for school  
and you get home  
and it's already dark unless it's summer time you know  
and even in summer time sometimes you get home so late that there's you know you can't do anything with them  
and especially in the winter i mean you get up in the dark and come home in the dark you know  
it's like it's like a [vampire] sometimes  
yeah  
uh a lot of i guess is  
yeah  
i think some of is how the uh you know  
i guess it's not really a direct benefit but how your uh performance is rated and stuff like that at work  
cause i've been uh  
especially in large corporations you can really you know wind up getting having you know real problems i've found out  
i've worked for a few you know several thousand plus you know type companies   and it and especially if you're doing like professional work where you know it's kind of [ethereal] as to what you're doing   you know  
if you're  
like i've  
i work with uh computer systems a lot  
so it's kind of hard to say you know  
if you're you know a brick layer somebody can look and see you know well yeah you laid you know fifteen thousand bricks today  
and they were all straight  
and your building didn't fall down you know  
yeah  
you did a great job  
but if you build computer systems like well you know what does that computer program really do you know or especially if you write like papers you know   or do design studies or something  
it's real hard to rate something like that  
it's like get a painter you know or something a artist  
it's like well you how do you really rate you know [michelangelo] you know  
how would you tell if he was you know really good or so so or whatever  
what kind of um besides besides your salary what's what's the most the thing that you would consider to be most important as a benefit
oh
have you ever worked for a large organization
oh okay
okay
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
probably because you said retirement and that really has not even occurred to me once
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
that's true
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
what is that
um no
i hadn't heard of that
um
is that something that you should change from year to year
that sounds like it might be a really good idea
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well i think of uh you mean as far as retirement
i think the the most important thing for me right now is really the medical coverage
uh i am in uh uh in uh involved in a four oh one k
but i'm uh contributing such a such a small amount right now just to go ahead and have the account open
because uh uh i just
let's see i've been with this company for about three months
and before that uh we were we're we're still in the process of trying to catch up
we were we were way behind financially
and so haven't really uh quite managed to catch up yet
exactly
and we're also trying to buy a house which [complicates] matters even further
yeah
no
no
that would complicate things even more
yeah
yeah
that's probably
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
well there's lets see what other
it seems like everybody has it used to be that they used to give like two weeks a year
and now they give one week after the first six months
most most of the time now they do the first week after the first six months
so that if somebody really needs that time
they can go ahead and use it then
or they can just wait the full year
and then have two
so it it would work either way
probably five years
i think
or seven uh that's kind of far away
okay
um i've got another call coming in
okay
all right
anyway uh uh
well i did uh
and i'm currently uh consulting now
so i'm with this you know a smaller organization um so my benefits are pretty basic uh medical i don't get any profit sharing and stuff like that
so
yeah
yeah
what uh the current climate is i saw a little [flyer] and uh i thought it was interesting uh is they are now offering you know flexible benefits where you have more control and allocate uh like you can uh pay for uh vacation time if you want to take more vacation you can just buy them out or something like that
so i can can do other things
and uh they actually have a software package
that sounds like where you can manipulate different things to see what it costs to you for those benefits
so it sounds like they're going to get more flexible to meet individual needs which i think is the most important thing because everybody is got quite a few different objectives
yeah
are you single
okay uh
but
no
i i'm uh single
right
never been married
no
i said i've never been married
i'm only twenty six
so i've still got a few years
right
so what are the most important benefits to you
uh_huh
the
but the medical stuff itself the the health plan you're with it only covers fifty percent
ouch
that's the worst i've ever heard
it's usually the basic eighty twenty
besides your initial deductible
that's what varies the most
i guess
uh
yeah co payments type stuff
yeah
well i think uh obviously i think the the medical is the most expensive
or it's the most important coverage
uh of the you know you may not even go in to the doctor for a long time
but you know if something came up obviously to get covered is important
yeah
uh_huh
how about any matching programs
have you ever you know what i mean
where they contribute
like a hundred percent of up to four percent of you salary into a four o one k
is it is it
is it a hundred percent or is it fifty percent
okay
yeah
but that's a nice i think that's an important benefit
uh i don't get that option i i i was at a company that had that
and i didn't make enough to be able to put anything in it
so i had to leave
so but uh
uh_huh
with an annuity yeah
the only reason i know a little bit about that is when i was in school still
i was down in florida working and uh during the summer somewhere
i got a hold of involved in a marketing organization that [marketed] uh replacing those whole life policies which aren't very good insurance policies people are losing you know they
losing money or not doing as well as they could and uh the whole organization was [targeting] to replace whole life policies with a term life with an annuity and uh they would you know analyze a person's current policy and get a computerized you know statement of of what would happen
you know at this age this age this age you know
what your benefits would be
and uh the difference between you know the term life with annuity and the whole life was you know there's fairly big [discrepancies] you know
so they could try to replace those so i got involved uh on that end
and picked it up
but i never did tell anyone back at school and i never i never uh did anything with it
but uh so i know a little about right now
i just do a little basic life thing on my benefits
but you know i don't know what i get out maybe twenty or something just to cover me and cover some expenses and maybe fly people out that i know you know
some family that
but uh i'm not worried about that
i don't have anybody to
yeah
i like the idea of having that chunk of money to help anybody cover my end you know
you don't want to be a burden to anybody else
and uh
so i think
yeah
i mean i'm not looking to leave anything there may be a certain amount
and you know that's fine
but uh you know to get that coverage
and know that i'll get you know uh you know flown to wherever i need you know already i need to go
i guess i haven't made any decisions like that
i guess you know my family and father would do that
but uh see i've i've
kind of moved around from my home originally
and um and my family's out in florida now
most of my family and i'm out here in phoenix
so but uh anyway as far as benefits
um what else is important uh obviously i think uh profit sharing is is uh is a important benefit
especially in the long run for the long term
um
yeah
smaller companies it's either the smaller company you're you're you're in into the consulting side and they'll you'll finish up a project and you'll get the little bonus that type of thing
um i guess you could technically consider that profit sharing um
but uh most you know most medium or small probably don't do that much profit sharing and while i was at this other corporation they never had any profit so
yeah
they couldn't share any
and i guess they had a little bit one year
but i wasn't qualified for my first year something you know
have to
so little over three years now
that's true
and you get sequestered or something you know half a month
when you get sequestered
and you're there for months
that's true
yeah
yeah
right
well as as you say the the um the benefits are the biggest part of it
i think that today with costs are up for medical insurance and [eyeglasses] and dental
and all that
it is a a a a plus to have that as far as your uh salary goes you know along with it because it's not out of pocket money
and they also have good life insurance policies good retirement [decode] the um jet funds all that stuff
i think you know the i r a's uh the profit sharing the stock options
there are they offer a lot of ways for you to save too if you have any extra you know that like the uh code over the two for one type of thing
well they match half
i guess it is
and um i think that a lot of it's the personal recognition that the company gives people if they do a good job uh the incentive you know to want to do a good job and the uh m i r awards [banquets] and things i think they do a lot as far as trying to motivate people
and they're uh meetings to keep you full informed
you don't find that much in small companies because you can kind of interface but when you get a big company like ours i think it's great that they take the time to you know give us a monthly meeting to tell us what's going on that type of thing
um snacks uh we interface kind of like uh on the tip teams and things i think that's a good deal
it gives you a chance to feel like you're a part of a group or the organization
and that you're heard
and you know if you have ideas that type of thing
oh
i use it up
do you have a mandatory
do you have a mandatory shut down
oh
that's why see
you you can you're able to do that
but we haven't got much choice
that's the if i had to say one thing negative that would be it because i feel like you know you earn your vacation time
and you should be able to take it when you want to
but we're not allowed to we have to take two weeks when the company shuts down you know
and i can understand it from there point of view on the one hand because they have to you know consider the customers that their supplying but it makes it very hard especially if a husband and wife work at texas instruments
and one has vacation one time and one has vacation another time you know you're not in the same area
so you have to take a two week shut down and it's not at the same time
so that isn't too nice uh this year they were going to try to do something different about that too
they were going to try to schedule the whole site to go down at the same time to eliminate that and your talking about five thousand people
so that's quite a [feat] in itself
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's great
yeah
really
that's excellent
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well they're doing a lot with um [automation] specialist also
that's what i do uh where you have to go to school
to or run the new automated equipment
it's all computerized and and stuff
and uh there's a lot of job security in that because it takes so long to come up to an experience level
where you're able to you know you have to be able to maintain them do the maintenance uh diagnose what's wrong with the machine
and you know do whatever it takes to get it started again and things and interface with the technicians in the [toolroom] so you're kind of like your own boss as far as the machinery goes and uh it's about a two year to three year experience before you're able to really um i would say [payback] you know and do the job
well
and you're still learning after all that time because they're very complex machines
exactly
that's right
yeah
and they offer um a lot of uh opportunity to go to school
that's another good benefit that t i has
and they'll pay for ninety percent of your schooling
with no commitment to them
you know like a lot of companies will send you to school
but you have to sign a paper that you'll work for them for five years or uh to that affect and you're kind of locked in so that if a career move comes up where you could take advantage of it
you can't if you're you know signed in a contract
whereas at t i they don't do that
oh
oh
oh
yeah
well this part of the country
there's no shortage of uh good schools
you know like m i t
and and uh boston's only an hours drive from here
so a lot of the the people can go you know to a good school
and right in rhode island there must be some nice colleges too rhode island
uh reasonable uh the company i work for is t i
uh so uh i think t i
uh likes to live in the middle of the road
yeah uh
yeah
well i i i'm serious
i think they really do
uh if they can stay about mid way between the the companies who have excellent whatever
and uh and the ones who have very poor whatever
that's where they want to be right about the middle of the road
yeah
and there's no reason to i don't think they consider it to be any uh particular reason to go out and have the very best in the industry
all they want to do is make it acceptable which uh probably from a business standpoint is is what you want to do
i guess
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's true
i'm i have i have used the dental plan several times for myself and also my family
so you know i'm glad to have it
but uh uh i was there also before the dental plan was in place and and we we stayed on our our personnel people at the plant uh continuously for for years literally i mean trying to to get a dental plan in place because it it had it had started becoming a thing that a lot of major companies were doing getting dental plans
and it took us a a long time
well i mean we didn't have anything directly to do with it
i'm sure
but you know we had talked about it
and we were aware of it for a long time before t i finally got on the bandwagon i guess
yeah
the medical yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i i think they're they're finally heading that direction
uh you know because they now have some some cancer screening tests
that they will pay for
so
they've also got the you know preventative uh the
well baby stuff
which is good
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh no
it's
well like i say it it's slowly coming uh it's i guess it's just you know with insurance rates and medical costs being what they are
i guess it's you know i i guess they're really trying to to hold the costs down
yeah
but it's it sure is hard
i mean it's hard on the employee because you know the the cost are going up and the benefits are coming down you know they true
they may be coming down at a slower rate because of the cost [managements] things that they're doing
but you know the benefits are coming down
oh yeah
now i
yeah
and i love the coda plan
i i haven't yet figured what the uh exactly what the uh catch is
but i
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
well i participate uh you know i've i have participated since they installed the plan
but for a long time i was leery about you know i just couldn't figure out well what's the deal you know why is the company doing that
yeah
that's right
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
and i guess i guess in a way that is the catch you know for the employee
but it's also the benefit for the company because they have uh an amount of money there that that i suppose that they invest i don't know exactly what they do with that money
but i'm sure they invest it some way
and i'm sure they're making money off of it
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
it's it's great
i like i say i use it
and i'm i'm glad they came up with it
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
the t i
does have some good benefits
but like i say i i really do believe that they [strive] just to kind of stay in the middle of the road
well yeah
i guess i guess in a way they're they're are they really are starting that now with the uh the smoker premiums that they're going to be starting
so that's you know in a way
and uh i'm just wondering you know how far it will go over the years
you know will will they single out people who are susceptible to heart disease or overweight or or any other you know [recognizable] high risk
i guess you know that's
i guess that's i guess that's the way it should be
i i'm not sure
it it's different from the way it has been
i don't know
i'm i've wondered that myself
i'm not a smoker
so it's it's not going to affect me or my family
but i you know we we've talked about it at work and wonder about that
i guess you're just strictly on your honor i guess
oh yeah
i did too
uh_huh
yeah
well in a way i feel like uh you know the smokers should have to do that
you know because they are bringing it on themselves even even though it is a habit that a lot of them you know may have a problem quitting you know t i has seemingly bent over backwards to help them quit with the stop smoking programs
yeah
well like i say since i'm not a smoker
i really don't know uh there there are quite a few guys in in my i work in a lab environment
and there are quite a few guys in there who at one time did smoke and uh as a matter of fact all of them have quit
but they've all done it on their own none of them enrolled in any kind of program
they just
i guess just looked at the cold hard facts and just quit cold turkey
i i wouldn't be surprised uh i never had heard a number of how many actually signed up
but i i do know that they were trying to get people to do it uh you know which is good because it is uh i guess more of a hardship on people who you know who are have been used to smoking in their work area just you know light one up whenever they want to
now they've got to get up and go to a designated area
but that's uh times are changing you know as it has it's different
now than what it was fifteen twenty years ago in in in the benefits and insurance and the whole works
oh retirement
i mean i'm
yeah
well i'm i'm still a long way off
but uh you know the retirement and profit sharing the profit sharing is really a sore spot with me because about the time that i hired in was about two years after i hired on was about the time that the uh the profit sharing plan changed over we went from the old plan to the new plan
yeah
and
oh yeah
so you're you never were familiar with the old plan
i don't guess
well i you know i never participated in you know in the old plan because i uh didn't have enough [vesting] but uh i worked with a lot of old guys who really really got were disappointed after the new plan had been in place for a few years
they said it just was nothing like the old plan
so it really is
it it's it
yeah
it's it's it's crazy
well
yeah
that's that's kind of a
uh_huh
uh that's that's kind of a standing joke that uh anytime you see any big projects coming up you say well it must be getting close to time to figure profit sharing
uh_huh
yeah
it's it's well like i say your account even if you don't draw anything out of it is is just not even hardly worth the effort
yeah
i'm i'm likewise uh you know i i think basically t i has without saying
it is trying to tell you that hey we're not going to or not going to be able to take care of you at retirement
so we're going to help you do what you can for yourself
and you better take advantage of it if you want something to to look at
uh fringe benefits are very important in the in the company i think to provide the employee with a sense of security
do you agree with that
or
yes
at the rising cost of
health uh care now
it's uh if you have to go out and buy your company coverage
you probably have to spend three four hundred dollars a month
to get anything that even came close to it
yeah
we uh we've just got dental insurance after the first of the year it's been i think probably oh about eight or nine years since we had dental coverage
and it it sure makes a difference
yeah
i think the in the insurance area
one of the things that we also got that we didn't have what we haven't had in about eight years is the card for prescriptions where you go in and just pay a minimal amount for prescriptions and uh we have some that are fairly expensive sixty seventy dollars
well now we pay eight dollars for them
uh no
that's just all prescriptions uh
yeah
and it's a i think it's five dollars on generic drugs and eight dollars on a name brand drug so no matter what they are in fact you have to pay the certain basic cost
for them
you don't have to meet any deductible or anything
but uh uh yeah
that's uh just vacation
and some sick leave not very much though
uh really depending uh on what you need kind of it's a case that there if you need more than a couple weeks or eight days or whatever
it may be then they they will consider it
so that's been with the companies i've been with generally at a a executive position they're a little more liberal even though they're not supposed to supposed to treat everyone the same still rule more liberal with time off due to the all the extra hours executives put in
but uh the uh i think pension costs are making it more and more difficult for them to provide print pension benefits too
it's uh
yes
because it just keeps going an up up and up there too
but uh there's
yeah
the older you get the more you start thinking about the pension
right
yeah
yeah
uh my son has worked for a company for about six year he graduated from college
what in eighty six so five years this fall
and he started out with
they had a four o one k plan
and he asked me if he should get into it
and i said well very small amount uh you can put in there
and you keep adding to it
and they're going to match it or so
and all of a sudden at the end of last year he had a [sizable] amount saved up in his four o one k plan just with the matching funds that the company is putting in and any earnings on investments
so
no
no
he can't but he's only uh twenty seven years old
and he's already got a good start
even if he changes companies he can you know roll that over
into another plan
yeah
yeah
um i wish i had a company that did that
but there's oh there's various [intangibles] also like uh you know taking pride in the company you work for being able to say i work for such and such company or i hold such and such position with this company and that's one of the [intangible] fringe benefits i guess a certain ego level there
well it
not the one i'm working for now
but one i did in the past did
so i i just felt you know at a
i need to find a company like that again
yeah
uh_huh
pay tuition and books
or a portion [thereof] yeah
oh what you can find there is so many of these things like uh working for a company some of the things they really [enhance] your experience in case you do have to change companies
yeah
i mean it's a just makes you that much more [salable] shall we say if you do have to go and search for another position
it's right that's right
yeah
yeah
the company i used to be with also took care of things like professional dues and subscriptions to like the wall street and other professional man's magazines in the financial areas
so it uh
there are there are more than just insurance and pension there's lots of other things that come up
back in the heyday of the economy before this recession then of course there were other things available to other people
i never even took advantage of them of uh like [memberships] and clubs the people that uh have to entertain and such
so there's all sorts of fringe benefits
yeah
that's right
it keeps your mortgage holder happy
having to salary again be uh uh being able to acquire the the nicer things that you want not just have to live at a a certain level being able to do things or purchase things that you want that aren't really necessary
so um that's about all i have
okay fine
been nice talking with you
well i'm a contract person
and uh so i don't have a lot of benefits and uh uh i do think they're very important
my husband has medical insurance and he has a life insurance policy his company does not really have a retirement plan and i think that's something that's very important
and uh i believe medical insurance and retirement are probably the two [strongest] two most important
uh_huh
yes
right
uh_huh
yeah
you sort of take it for granted
oh i know
isn't that a shock
well we uh kind of discovered it when uh the company my husband was with uh was in real estate and he had some nice benefits with it and all of a sudden when the market dropped out up here
of course
and you know everything kind of went downhill
and then he went with a steel company and they they folded but he was still under the uh [cobra] plan on the medical insurance
and then all of a sudden the people that had taken it over went bankrupt
well that ended [cobra] plan and everything
and uh then we discovered and our medical insurance for three months was running us uh i think it was nineteen hundred dollars
yeah
our age and uh i had some arthritis and stuff
and man they [socked] it to us
and you know
but now
fortunately we we're back
we have some medical insurance
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
what did you do consulting work
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
benefits
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i know that my husband the company he's with now has excellent uh hospitalization and prescription card and dental insurance
but they have no retirement
benefits
and you know we definitely you know miss this
i grew up in a family that had their own business
you cannot pay me enough money to go into business for myself and my husband has watched my family
and i don't believe you could pay him enough
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
you're always
uh_huh
well and you think you know
okay
are the employees going to get paid this week you know are
we going to meet our things and that's right
that's right
i can remember my dad saying somebody saying they wished you know beef wasn't so high you know they could only afford chicken and my dad said if someone doesn't buy some beef i'm not going to be able to afford the chicken
you know
and they they really are
they really are
okay
go ahead and uh tell me what you're looking for in a job now
okay
a what
okay
okay
so you like having the flexibility to be able to take off time when you want to
that's important
to you
does uh recognition from others and a sense of contributing to the [organization's] success does that rank pretty high for you
yeah
that's that's kind of a rip when you feel that way
hey david what is your doctorate in
sure
so you're kind of interested in this thing that we're participating in then
huh
and so you're enjoying all the benefits that a professor would at the moment is there
well i meant as health and uh
oh yeah
okay
uh david is one of the things that i i suppose
so you don't want to be out in the weather
and uh the environment like construction workers for you
it's better to be inside air conditioned warm
okay
you know what happens is i've tried i was out because of surgery last week
so i tried calling a couple of eight o'clock calls and i got a person from utah and a person from new york and a person from new jersey
so i thought sort of neither calling really during the morning out of town
so that's why that's why i've been making it a habit of calling in the morning
but anyway uh the topic was the most important benefit of your job today
besides salary and how satisfied are you
and everything
i'm sort of self employed
so i
really
i'd be at a a little loss for words on this as far as i'm concerned most definitely
uh the most important benefit today would be hospitalization
and of course retirement and things like that
uh_huh
well that's very true
i can understand that because i'm a just a small business person i run a my company has five people
but uh they're all straight commission [salesmen] so they all provide their own insurance and it's been that way
since nineteen seventy four and my office is just a one person office i have myself
plus my secretary
and she comes in at nine and leaves at five and uh she's on her husband's insurance program
and i just uh
yes
yes
oh that's great
oh that's neat
are you married
okay
well i'm married and my wife's a school teacher
so i'm on her they have pretty good insurance
so i they she carries me on her insurance program which works out real well
she's in the plano school district in plano
and it's not cheap
it's like all insurance insurance just keeps on going up more and more every day
and of course they the prices they're charging today
and because of the problems they have
oh
deductibles are high
oh you bet
supplemental anything is important today
i'll tell you
whether
well that's great
well that's super
well just uh i carry my own [keogh] plan as far as benefits
and i've been doing that since nineteen seventy four or seventy five or whatever
and that's more or less my wife's and my retirement i'm fifty years old
my wife is forty nine
and she didn't start teaching till she was forty
so we raised our kids first
and she went back and got her degree and started teaching so it looks like we're going to retire in a couple of years
and she'll uh she'll qualify for a little something after ten years of
teaching
but not a whole lot
but it'll be certainly be useful and needed
i'm in the sporting goods business
i'm a own a manufacturer's rep firm
and uh we represent eighteen different hunting and shooting type companies and that's all i've done since
i graduated school years ago
sold really
oh it's neat isn't it
okay
so you were with t i
huh
well any stay any place that long
they got to be doing something right
right
i uh work for myself i sell uh metal fabricating equipment and tooling and uh-oh [cad] cam systems and things like that
and uh consequently i can't really discuss big time benefits at the moment
although i had worked for [univac] and [pitney] [bowes] and some big companies once upon a time
but uh i think
most people don't necessarily realize the cost of them
and they're somewhat probably getting out of hand
well i think uh-oh the way i
right
well no
it didn't necessarily say other than salary
but what would you consider to be kind of important
i guess such as
well i i imagine
that's what they're referring to you know
like uh your health insurance and pensions
and all that kind of good stuff uh
and they grew up around you didn't it
uh_huh
yeah
well i think that's one of the keys that most people uh probably put above benefits
that's why i work for myself
basically too
i want to do what i want to do
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
well i think as long as it's comparable with you know the job or can
that uh you aren't being picked on in the sense of being the whipping boy dollar wise in the corporation you know
you know you got to i
yep
yes
yes
right
well i i wouldn't say they aren't motivated by money
but i would say that there are other things that are equal or greater important
i i guess if you make enough money uh if the money were really big bucks
i guess some of these other things you could uh live with for a while anyway until you had enough to do what you wanted to do
but yes
right
well i i think uh so far they've been pretty good except the medical uh not not the medical the dental insurance
yeah
yeah
i think uh i know i went to have a tooth pulled and uh it the [cavity] had gotten really bad
and they they wouldn't uh cover it because they said it it was a pre existing condition
you know how you wait you wait as long as you can
sometimes to to lose a tooth
and then to for them to come up with something like that
it
i i just thought
that was that was pretty bad
and then one time i had a tooth [capped] you know one of my caps fell off
and uh they paid for the the cap but they wouldn't pay for the build up
and i didn't understand that either
uh well uh it's it's a part of aetna
uh_huh
yeah
well i had an h m o up to this year
yeah
i went to regular aetna
uh i thought that the h m o was really great uh
yeah
it's gotten expensive because right now i'm i'm i only have myself
so i don't have to pay anything for aetna
the kaiser uh premium got a little higher than it you know
uh_huh
really
uh_huh
right
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that was a problem that i had with them toward the end of the year
i was
i was really in a lot of pain
and i went there and and uh they they gave me an appointment for about a month away
and so i went to the health food store and got some [teas] and stuff and started drinking them
i got okay
but uh
and i didn't go back
uh_huh
yeah
that's what i thought about later i would have probably uh been better off if i just went to emergency
and you just bill
uh_huh
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
after i really thought about it some more
and i i really could have done that
but i was hospitalized uh uh about three years ago i had
some surgery
and kaiser was really good for that because i didn't have to pay any of it at all
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
wow
yeah
well my uh my kaiser premium would cost me like forty something dollars a month starting this year
and t i will cover uh whatever they would have covered for aetna
but the premium is still forty dollars more than that
yeah
so i went back to aetna
because i i won't have to pay anything
and uh although they do have a deductible that forty dollars a month will add up to that pretty quick
you know
yes
for because most people are getting older and the uh benefits are going uh i mean the price is going up
everything seems to go up
yeah
see well here where i live all the benefits have been going up lately up on health
and the hospitals have we have a one cent tax
and then now bush is coming up with this health plan
so i don't know much about it then
yes
yeah
one illness will do it
yes
yeah
i i would think so
but that's one of the main i would think one of the main [securities] that you would need
is health benefits
yes
well we i have my sister died
she had some benefits that helped through her
well they had her hooked up and everything
but that helped her
helped us through it
really
uh_huh
just just with the benefits going up
it's just there's not a whole lot you can do about it really
yes
you're not going make it very far
no
i don't think that would uh the older
the older probably you would probably need more help
because you know a lot of most of the elderly people don't have the money
and the ones that do well they have insurance
so it's just a i think that they need to extend them because we're we're paying here a lot
and i think the elderly needs it more than anything
yeah
no
really
have they got have they already signed that
or
that's
i guess that starts it uh
so uh i guess right now what's most important for me uh doing given it's come up is we have a real good stock program uh where i work and it's going to give me about a three hundred percent return this time around on my uh investment
which is definitely helping since i am going to buy a house
yeah
what they do what they do is it's it's a purchase program where you get stock it's on a one year cycle and you get it at eighty five percent of the lower of the beginning
and the end price for the year
so like the set price at the beginning of the year last may was five sixty four a share
stocks trading about fourteen now
so
and you so get to buy it at five sixty four and turn around in same the same day
the only down side to it is they do it as a withholding off your uh income
so you got kind of you know be willing to squirrel it away at whatever you want to do
yeah
yeah
that's with [interleaf] [interleaf] uh desktop publishing thought but uh you know
yeah
benefits other than salary
uh_huh
yeah
that that's definitely a good thing to have especially these days
right
what's that
like a uh like a key craft type thing
okay
yeah
it's like no no
so it's for retirement
yeah
so you have to wait until like around fifty five or
right
yeah
we we've got a four o one k here
but uh i chose to go in the per stock program
because you can't lose on it
and you know i can always take the money off of that
if i wasn't saving for the house i would be putting money into a four o one k
but you know i had much rather get the eight eighteen percent minimum return on the stock and use that for the house
but yeah you know medical is good
you know we get a good program here
what's basically a hundred percent coverage for about twenty bucks a month
it's like your yeah
it is it's a very good company as far as benefits go
they've got four o one k's they've got uh the health coverage they've got you know the stock program
they've got uh one twenty five k selling it for twenty bucks they do put in the you know dental is like you know eighty or fifty percent depending on what you are doing
uh and you know the one twenty five k they can pay that to you
as pre tax money rather than post tax the only problem with the one twenty five k is you've got to say at the beginning of the year
i think i am going to have a thousand dollars expenses this year
and then you have to be willing to have that money deducted from your salary and if you don't use the thousand dollars it goes away
so at the end of the year
if you haven't used it all up
it's you know the feds take it or whoever takes it it just [disappears] but you know if if you know you know
so you want to under estimate a little bit
so you know i know i usually have a thousand dollars five hundred dollars a year of dental and miscellaneous medical and deductibles so i just have them pull five hundred it means i pay like you know as opposed to paying like you know eight hundred dollars
i pay five hundred
i pay like three hundred cause it's on pre tax
yeah
i am here
yeah
i think
it depends on how flat the organization is if you know hand on my computer is talking to me uh you know it depends how flat it is if it's uh i don't like working in an organization where you're really deep in the tree
cause then you start to feel like you've got no real you know power to change anything
right
that's true
unless it's a large corporation that has a lot of different branches uh it was important for me to pick a job uh to choose a job that was in the northeast uh because i like the region
and my family is here at one point i'd interviewed for a company that wanted to send me to boise idaho and that really seemed like a negative benefit to me
uh_huh
uh_huh
i agree with that
uh i found though that that uh it it will benefit both the employee
and the company i work for a firm that does have a very flexible schedule
and i can't remember the last time that i just worked forty hours a week
so the uh
it works out that if i have to go in late for a reason or i have to leave early for a reason no one raises an [eyebrow] but because of that
i'm not a clock watcher if i if i knew they were expecting me there at eight thirty every day
and i couldn't leave until five
i i think i'd be uh uh have a greater tendency to wait until the clock hit five and then saying out of here
right
yeah
that's correct
well that's correct
right
another
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
right
uh the company i am working for now starts everyone out at three weeks vacation
and i i thought that was great
except during the first year i ended up only being able to take about a week and a half of it
yeah
we get uh i have i have good health benefits actually
yeah
i have uh all of them
and they're cheap per month
and they i get to pick my own doctor and they have really good benefits
besides uh no
i have uh some a little bit of uh life insurance benefits
uh no
the the uh no optical the dental is fully covered uh
except unless it's major
but anything minor or checkups that's all covered
no
that's just me
but they can be
i have that option but it's more money
but they're not they have their own
oh no me i'm single
it's just through me
it's it's uh
so it's
and that makes it cheaper too since i'm single
no
no
yeah
yeah
not much
not for the good
but it's really good
the benefits are good
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
they have they uh it does
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
do do you work where you have benefits like that
oh really
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
really
well that's good
uh_huh
see that's
see i wear glasses not all the time
but when i read and stuff
and uh i wish we had some kind of optical coverage
but there's there's none whatsoever
and it can get expensive
yeah
uh yeah
for the uh actually if you're i believe
i i read up on some of it if you're pregnant
they have really really good coverage they have uh like well baby care
it's it's pretty much covered
uh_huh
especially when they're younger
yeah
uh_huh
and the and the pregnant mother has uh full coverage for
well mother care
uh that's what i was trying to
i think there is
i don't really remember how long it is
but they do give you a certain amount of time to be home and get adjusted i guess
and uh most of the benefits are pretty good
the hospital benefits and and they let you pick your own doctor you have your choice
actually if uh it's better they give you a list
and if and if your doctor's on that list then most of your benefits are better because those doctors are in a chain that works with the insurance company
yeah
but you can have your own doctor
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and and a lot of times because we just switched my my uh company just switched insurance
companies and before
it seems to me that the the benefits of working for a big company tend to be the the same things that that are to their [determent] they aren't as as responsive both to like bad economic times you don't have to worry about your job all of a sudden disappearing but when you see a job when you see a a job that needs to be done
sometimes you have to fill out the five forms in [triplicate] in order to to get it done
do you know what i mean
oh wow
right
there is that
i mean well
and then i guess again i i like i said when i when i started off that the advantages tend to be the same things that the disadvantages i mean if i don't show up for for work
there's probably somebody else that could fill my spot
but um i imagine
and and that's nice
but uh it's it's also nice to be able to uh know that that you are the person that that makes things get done
you know if if you're not there
it doesn't happen
yeah
oh wow
oh wow
uh_huh
you know one other benefit that just occurred to me i didn't take it as much advantage of it
at least not yet in sometimes big companies will pay for like education
i had some friends of mine uh get sent up to stanford for a year for uh college or for like for grad school and i guess getting stuck in california for the summer is is not such a bad thing
you know
but uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
but i would think that a a smaller company you would have a i mean if if if a small company hits some niche in the some niche market that that it is [uniquely] qualified to um take care of it has a chance to to grow really fast
and if you can get on top of it before before it goes up
i mean you know if all of a sudden the company expanded to like you know three thousand people
you would probably be one of the top people
of course i guess if there's only the two of you
you'll i mean i guess you're one of the top two people
but you are also in the bottom half
so so uh um the only other thing i can think of is uh stuff for things like uh like if if there's some kind of child care if if someone were married and had kids
bigger companies might have something like that
and uh um like like it's their i guess another advantage might be that uh if if it's a big enough company and it has multiple sites
um if you wanted to you could stay with the same company and decide you wanted to live in another part of the country
which i guess i being with a small company you wouldn't get forced to move but do you think uh do you think it was good to to move around or not
oh you had family in san antonio
oh
okay
see i'm trying to decide my dad was in the military which is i guess if you figure companies the military would be a pretty big company
a number of people
but uh although it's getting smaller every every day
um and we moved like oh man
we used to move like every every three years at least
and like i don't know
i mean there's
well there's
i i've kept in touch with some people from college
but but i don't i mean i don't really know i i wouldn't i couldn't
i i definitely agree on that uh i'm i'm working for a law firm
right now the benefits are not bad
the only thing i think that they're desperately missing is we have no dental plan whatsoever
uh but as far as what i would really like to see is i live close enough to the city that i would be able to bicycle in if i could if there was some sort of provided facility for that
uh maybe a [locker] area a shower area to
to take a shower before work and some place to lock the bicycles up and i have heard of a lot of other companies providing that now it's something to look forward to uh let's see
well a lot depends on the job though
what do you do
oh okay
right
yeah
that would be nice
i suppose that does depend on the type of job type of environment you're in
uh i'm right now
also a full time student
and uh but i work in the evenings for a law firm
so it's rather
yeah
it's a rather interesting uh rather interesting set up work full time go to school full time
but
how come
well they do
yeah
yeah
i have friends that are in the military
and they do get quite a lot of perks
right
right
right
uh what a lot what a lot of companies do is as far as their health benefits are concerned the insurance provides uh coverage for the spouse and or family in a lot of cases
i know that's the case in my office
at least
they will provide minimum benefits for your spouse and [codependent] children not like the case applies to me
but uh it is nice that they offer it
definitely
and health insurance costs
you you're not still covered under your parents
oh wow
when you said you were going to school full time
oh well that's different
uh_huh
right
what school does
oh wow
wow
right now
right now the company that my company picks up the insurance they pay
i think it's thirty dollars a month
so it three sixty a year
and that's basic uh group health coverage
i do
but uh they're pretty slanted i want you to know
uh my company was bought by another company
and the majority of us were laid off
uh_huh
so you know uh what i would like to see well the really sad part of this is that i'm fifty five years old
beg your pardon
oh my chances of getting another job are just really slim
i was a systems analyst for an oil company
and you know they just
i mean [sprint] had uh two thousand jobs i mean i'm sorry two hundred jobs open they had two thousand applications for this type of work
you know it's just uh
and i guess that's that's pretty farfetched as benefits go
but gosh you know i saw it i was fixed for life
so uh it really is
it really is
but uh i i think uh i guess my feelings on this are that the one of the most important benefits
we currently have is our health insurance
and that if there were some way to get that to follow you from job to job or so that you would not lose it if you have to leave a company there is uh_huh
and and that's fine
but you know i'm still unemployed after about fourteen months okay
and when you switch yeah
when you switch over the the premiums are really quite high and [additionally] i've had a heart attack
so it's going to be really tough for me to do this
so you know uh in in my very personal way i feel that insurance is just one of the most important benefits
we have now now with the political situation the way it is
i think that's going to change
i think we're going to have to have something of that sort
so that will cease to be as important a benefit what are your
feelings
what do you feel
well i agree with you
but do you know that's what makes this such a tremendous benefit if you can possible get group rates
oh yes
uh_huh
yep
they they don't have time
well you've you've approached it
what is their thinking on it
have they said
okay have they said we cannot do this because no
because
okay
uh_huh
is uh let's see
are they paying a part of the premium
oh they are
and have you offered to come in
have you offered to come in and pay the whole premium
and they still won't let you
that's crazy
so what do you do about insurance
okay
i work for a temporary service
and so our benefits are a lot more limited than what you would have if you worked a regular full time job
we have to work a certain number of hours and then we get holiday pay and vacation pay
and they if you um i could if i wanted to
i'd i'm not right now
but um i have
yeah
like you have to work twelve hundred hours um within a year to get holiday pay and fifteen hundred hours within a year to get vacation pay
so if you're not working enough hours to get that much time in in a year
then you don't get the benefits yeah
yeah
you don't get anything at all
uh_huh
right
yeah
my husband has good benefits too
or i probably wouldn't be able to do the temporary work
i think medical is probably one of the most important things to have
wow
uh_huh
yeah
those must be pretty good benefits
i've heard that usually they average about thirty percent of your salary
so it sounds like maybe his company's a little bit better
right
yeah
uh no
fortunately we still have the
it's just regular [traveler's] insurance that my husband has so we can go anywhere
i guess that's good
i don't know uh i can't decide
oh yeah
uh_huh
really
yeah
my husband works for a psych hospital
and i know that they sometimes have to [discharge] people before they're really ready because their insurance won't let them stay any longer
it frustrates him because they'll just be getting somebody to the point where they can really make some progress
and then they're gone
yeah
really
right
yeah
yeah
do you uh does your husband's company have any of the new like a cafeteria plan where he gets to pick and chose any of his benefits
right
yeah
that's one thing i wish that we had was like a four oh one k plan or one of those things were they matched what you could save
those are really good deals
yeah
that or retire
i don't think we can plan on social security taking care of us
so
yeah
with what they say about how the [population's] changing
i think attitudes will have to change to go along with that
and that will probably change the insurance benefits too as people get older and still work and they'll need more health care
oh
yeah
does that just supplement like medicare or
yeah
yeah
that's good
see i my husband's been self employed
and he's worked for uh like a small companies
and now he's in a little bit bigger company
so we've seen a little bit of every kind of benefit you can have right
yeah
when we when he was self employed
and we had to get our own insurance to get maternity benefits was just ridiculous
i mean you you might as well have saved the money you paid every month and paid your own hospital bill at the end of the year or something
right
yeah
yeah
it's scary
well it was good talking to you
all right
benefits
yes
i do i work for the school system
richardson school
yes
it is
and uh [retirement's] one of the good benefits
and um health care has been a mess
and that can be with a large corporation
it used to be
but i think that's a mess for everybody
now isn't it pretty much
it keeps
yes
for the best where it
used to be one of your you know you got the whole package with your larger companies
and you didn't have the problem
yes
i think i do
i've never worked for a small one
so i can't tell you you know but yes
i believe the benefits and the pay is much better than you would get in a smaller system
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
we do have very good resources they're excellent
well it's an important aspect of it i feel you know it is it is an important aspect
as far as um being having having everything available to you
the uh counseling and the whole um
uh_huh
well probably the major one would be the medical i would like to see a better package for the money you know
but i guess we all would
and they keep cutting us from the you know they keep cutting from the medical into the dental is so expensive where we used to get it
and you used to get the eyes and the whole thing
and you don't get any of that any more you know it's all separate and it's all so very high if you do get it
and that's very frustrating
and i can't imagine how the younger families do it
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i i was just going to say the retirement is fair for teachers
but my husband has retirement too
and it's not good though we've had to i mean we're building our own you know
you have to any more
you can't count on companies on that any more
that and that's another thing that's changed the the medical and the retirement benefits from large corporations it's kind of it's it's like it was set
you know you were really set for life really
uh_huh
yeah
you have to
yeah
i remember my mother talking in the forties for her father was cut you know they went through this same thing in the forties that they're doing now
they were cutting in at forty five
and fifty years old
and that's what they're doing again it's like a recycle of the whole
when they see they're going to have to pay all those benefits and all
or it's
getting close to retiring they bring in
they bring in the younger blood that they don't have to pay as high
and
oh
i do too
and the wisdom behind it all
it's
yeah
and you know that's got to that's got to add in all their production the whole works
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well it's cost again
go ahead
well uh i'm i work at a large company
and uh we have quite a quite a few benefits
and uh we have uh the best benefit i like is the uh amount of vacation time
especially after uh working working there for a long time
it really builds up to the amount of vacation time i i think that's one of my best benefits
well one thing that i i uh wish uh in a big company there's more bureaucracy and uh less support of uh what you're doing
i think
and that something that uh is uh probably a benefit of a small company
you get more support from the people that you work for
yeah
you're really thinking of the future
yeah
yeah
i work for the state of florida
and uh it's pretty good retirement plan uh we don't get paid very much
but uh retirement plan is pretty pretty good
yeah
did you say you worked for a credit union
okay
yeah
my wife used to work for a credit reunion group
they they had a newsletter that went out to all the all the uh credit union c e o
and people like that
so she was really into the keeping up on what's going on with the credit unions
uh it was it was a company uh i think it was called credit union news or something
it was based out of uh i think it was [boca] [raton] florida
yeah
it was pretty uh pretty glossy kind of uh newsletter that comes out
uh not too much
no
yeah
just i get what they give you uh that's uh not not uh we not too many choices
yeah
yeah
yeah
i guess
yeah
yeah um
okay well
okay
okay
uh well i i work in a actually it's sort of an odd situation right now
but uh i have until recently been working in in a uh in a large organization
and i currently maintain an office still at at the place
even though i i officially quit there a few months ago
but it's it's not really a large organization
but uh nearly five hundred people how
yeah
how about you
are you
that's
uh_huh
huh
yeah
not lost in the in the crowd huh
oh yeah
i i think it it probably the thing is that it's always fairly obvious in a small one
right
because uh
yeah
everybody knows what everybody else is doing
and and knows that it's it's generally important
but
uh_huh
what what about what about uh advantages of large organizations i mean benefits and things
yeah
yeah
when when i've worked with a with
i mean the small things i've worked with really haven't had any uh any consistent you know or any any kind of quality package they just kind of leave you on
your own yeah
i've i've had my own little business
and then i've worked for small businesses and yeah
the only ones that i've had large uh uh i mean i've had health care and and and other kinds of benefits with have been large organizations
also i worked at the university
and that that's a is a very large organization
and uh i you know relative to nothing of course you know i mean it i think so
uh the question you know i mean it's it's it's handy to have them
i just had gotten used to just not having insurance benefits and things uh
uh typically let's see uh typically the myself i i was covered myself
but my family wasn't you know i had to chip in for them to be covered
but it was pretty economical
uh especially relative to just buying your own health care package
yeah
and so you know
so that's that's handy uh you know i think that i'm amazed that uh at the one place i was working
uh what they calculate to be their overhead uh because of benefits they figure uh i mean something like thirty five forty or fifty percent of of salary
and you know which which is pretty amazing
uh_huh
uh_huh
i i think so
yeah
it really does
uh do you get other benefits besides health do you have life insurance and things like that
uh_huh
right
oh uh_huh
yeah
that's i i just had uh dental insurance for the first time uh from from an employer which i thought was was pretty handy really
took advantage of it
i think uh do are you finding that that uh the packages uh that your benefits packages are shrinking uh_huh
oh uh_huh [copayment] uh_huh
right
yeah
i i mean i
all right
do you work
what do you do
oh well do they have good job benefits
huh
uh_huh
no
i don't
uh i said my husband works on the railroad
they've got a lot of benefits
but it's expensive
uh the insurance is a kick in the tail every month
uh_huh
well the insurance is good
we only have to pay like a hundred dollar deductible per year
it's just it's uh it's like a hundred dollars a month
yeah
well i mean well that's just
well this is uh like retirement benefits
and it's a bunch of different benefits in one
it's not just it's not just medical insurance
that's great
yeah
that's good
uh_huh
whoops
i'm sorry
i'm sorry
they do
i don't know a lot about benefits most of the jobs that i've had you know
i don't have a degree i quit college when i first got pregnant with my little boy i plan on going back just i want to wait for my kids to grow up now
and uh uh i'm sorry
so all i've had is mainly fast food jobs and i worked at a toy store and i worked at t i for a while
but it was for manpower so i liked working at t i
oh you're in florida
oh okay
uh_huh
[sh]
uh_huh
well that's great
what did you say you did again a a data huh
well i took data processing in college
instead of computer data well that sounds great though
what did you do at t i
right
right
i always hate to feel out of control of anything
yeah
you played it by ear
um
uh_huh
well me and my husband are we've talked about it
we're having six dollars a day taken out of his check for retirement
well that's
at the t i
in sherman
or
okay
well uh
um that's about the only thing we're doing for retirement
now when i worked i wanted to go to t i
i was wanting to become a t i
that way i could get some benefits
because most the jobs around here
you can't get benefits
especially if you well if you don't have a degree or something
but i'll go back to school
one of these days
and i will get me
uh_huh
well i was eighteen
and i went and got my g e d
i quit the high school
i just couldn't stand it
and then course i hated it two years after i quit
i wish i'd never done it
but then i i went and got my g e d
and i went to school and i loved college i was making a three point
oh average
i wasn't having hardly any problems except for with my computer class
i did have problems there
but uh now i was then i was old enough to know you know well i'm paying for it
i've got to you know do something with it
but then i wanted to stay home with the babies
so
well we're having a hard time right now too
but it's just who if the kid if kids don't have direction if their mother ain't home directing them through the day kids are growing up wild nowadays
my mom had to work
and i i can feel the difference um a lot of well my husband had somebody to push him his mother was able to stay home with him more
and you know he got his life straight at an early age
which i'm not a i never went wild or anything
but i still don't know what i want to be when i grow up and i'm twenty seven years old
yeah
huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's what's important isn't it
you have while i when they start going to school
now my baby's just three months old
and i'm not having any more
so i'm going to be there for them
at least until they're in the second well until the baby starts to
uh kindergarten
not preschool which it don't take long it seems like just yesterday that my little boy was born and he's fixing to go to school next year
yeah
they're all growing up
yeah
he sure does
yeah
their medical and dental is real good
and like i said they do make it easy for you to
that's where a lot of our money is going is toward his retirement
but i want we'll like that once
you know we get older
and we'll need it
and like i said that's six dollars a day and oh i haven't really sat down and figured it out
guess it'd be pretty easy
three times six is what eighteen yeah
so it's a hundred and eighty a month
yeah
no
well it's it's like this
we don't see it
so we don't really miss it
yeah
now i wish they had that bond here
i know that they had that at t i
hello
okay
uh do you work at t i
yeah
what company
are you are you working at all
oh okay
yeah
uh_huh
what
oh yeah
don't ever think of those as a benefit
but they sure are yeah
what is their sick leave policy
is it paid
uh do you get penalized for taking it off
the reason why i ask that is um t i
uh the hourly employees um they have
i'm not sure up to five years they have a certain number of days
and after five years they have um unlimited uh personal time off
but if they miss more than say ten point five hours in a three month period
they get penalized for it
so really they don't ever huh
huh_uh
the problem is with that
is that we work eleven or we work twelve hour days
so
no one could even take off a day for pay you know p t o
um because they get penalized for it
and they lose their certification pay which is like fifty five cents an hour for three whole months
so it's really not a very good benefit
yeah
yeah
that's the biggest thing
and people come to work sick
but when their kids get sick
it's like well i can't afford to
take off
but i have to
uh_huh
that's true
it is it's not really uh consistent
yeah
i really wish that somebody in big companies or any company would take a hint from like that movie nine to five did you see that
where they had the child care right there on the that was so good
and that would help the morale of parents
i think
so much
because i hate to see that
i mean probably ninety percent of the people that work for me are single parents and they have to you know use child care at least for a couple hours a days
so i don't know
i i really think a big company needs to take responsibility for that
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's good
i know it's real
i don't have kids yet
but it's tough
um what kind of uh how many vacation days
do you get a year
that's great for how many years you been
have you worked there
oh wow that's great
uh_huh
huh
yeah
t i
isn't doing very well
so like i'm i'm negative vacation because i've only worked there three years
and i i get five days every six months
well every about two three months we shut down for a week because you know there's no demand for our product
so
yeah
and so we've shut down six weeks a year
whereas we used to only shut down two
and so it's kind of hurt
yeah
and luckily my boss has maybe you know allowed me to work it off
but a lot of people you know go in the hole and uh take you know weeks without pay
and it's tough
um i don't ever but the people that work for me do
yeah
i mainly the reason because i'm salary
so i don't ever lose pay
i mean i just go in debt for vacation
so yeah
um yeah
mainly because i haven't had really had to use it much
i mean
yeah
i have to pay for my husband which is kind of expensive for him
i mean it's like sort of yeah um
the reason why i don't know much is because i don't real uh i haven't really had to use like my medical i know they increased the deductible last year which kind of hurt
and oh
and after that they pay like eighty percent
and the [dentals] the dental covers quite a bit
but like i said i've never really been sick or anything
so i've never had to use it
huh
is that like match savings
yeah
it's fifty percent matched some companies i know are a hundred percent matched
yeah
like harris [semiconductors] in florida
huh
really
ours is only up to four percent though
yeah
because i mean i only put in like a real small amount because it's four percent
you know after that you put it in
and you get like interest
i mean i've saved quite a bit
it's helped me a lot
but you have to roll it over to an i r a
if you ever quit
but you know that's still a good deal
huh
yeah
it teaches people to think of the future i think
really
oh
wow
that's kind of a rip huh
t i didn't even give raises this year
so
no
they gave uh a few bonuses
but for the most part
no
nobody in t i
got raises yeah
yeah
really
uh actually it turns out to be an interesting topic because i am now in the middle of a job search graduating here and realizing that one of the things that's not really
well represented in benefits often is flexibility because my wife will have some set of benefits where ever she is working and the ability to mix and match in a useful way particularly with things like medical and dental
it's something that i've been uh looking for
that's amusing yeah
yeah
we have a similar thing in california
and i think that at the moment
you can't issue health insurance that doesn't have coverage for substance abuse and certain other mental health issues
and the result is a lot of people won't
provided at all or over charge
yeah
uh_huh
the other things is they do seem to be willing to spend money in strange ways
for instance i know where my wife works she can get for something like five or ten dollars a month sole health insurance
but it would cost her an additional sixty or seventy a month to include me on that policy
well assuming that we both work at places that feel this way we may very well miss out on the convenience of going to the same place
because those two places will never get together and agree
okay
one of them will pay for all of the uh the dental
and optical and the other one will pay for the medical instead it's just very much designed towards self only insurance
i don't know if all employers are that way
but a lot of them
i've seen are
yeah
well that's pretty good
uh_huh
that's something this university
at least the graduate student negotiated plan was very bad about this idea of low cost alternatives i know in one case
there were doctors around who were affiliated with the university who you can go see and all your lab work is covered under their research
so
in fact you are saving them you know hundreds of dollars in [billings] by going to a research uh physician yet at the same time they will only pay based on eighty percent of the [customary] reasonable charges for the physicians that the
and won't take into account the fact that by seeing that doctor you're saving them you know a couple of hundred dollars over going to somebody else
and a lot of things like that
so one thing i was wondering it was something i have noticed that they don't publicize much a lot of companies in particularly organizations school and government organizations have is legal uh services of some sort
huh
okay
what are the benefits well i i mean i don't even consider like salary a real benefit it just it's kind of a like a side thing i'm really here for you know working with lots of creative people is what i really like about my job
that's true
yeah
you don't don't want to have worry about it you know if if you're
worried you don't work as well
i know
and it just gets worse then people don't don't spend any money
right
yeah
i i just noticed that
yeah
yeah
i know i know exactly how you feel
but how can we get people to change it
i mean it it kind it kind of requires you know a company taking a risk
and they don't want to do that
that's true
i know i mean our c e o is is you know quite frankly stated that you know we're here to make [stockholders] happy
and that's not why i'm working here
oh definitely
right
yeah
we're just kind of like losing and it it just seems to be a snowball effect
i mean you know we keep losing more
right
but yes
things aren't that secure in software right now either
it's kind of a i'm also a also a hardware manufacturer i'm at apple so it's like you know we we notice our product just becoming a commodity and that's really bad
we're trying
and if it works
that'd be great for us
but what about you know the rest of the industry
yeah
well we go on that subject i cause i looked at h d t v
but i don't like standards that are on still on a fixed resolution which means
it will be eventually outdated also
uh_huh
everybody's separate
uh_huh
i'm i'm a co op student at g t r i
uh i go to school at georgia tech and we don't have benefits to speak of
we don't have health insurance or paid vacation
and
uh_huh
undergrad
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's a good idea
i had never thought about it that way
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
right
that's that would be a wonderful idea
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i didn't know that
really
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
[yipe] right
oh i'm i'm just not entirely sure
i have only been working here for one quarter this is my first quarter here
and uh i'm not really all too sure what kind of jobs are available and uh haven't gotten them yet i'm doing it in a few minutes
uh and i i i'm going to be doing research for a professor next quarter and see how i like that
see uh if research for a school would be something i would consider
oh
uh it's the georgia tech research institute
it's affiliated with the university uh
and uh we do research uh the one i'm in the lab i'm in does research in microwaves and antennas and uh we do a lot of research for the federal government
yeah  
i wasn't in central america  
but uh talking about latin america i kind of i consider latin america to include central and south america  
and i did live in uh san [polo] brazil for four years  
uh realistically i  
yes  
i don't see the the panama canal that hasn't had a whole lot of [usefulness] to us recently since it's not not really big enough to uh accommodate the the shipping that it once did  
and uh maybe it would be better that we let the panamanians run it however i think we're certainly justified in uh our actions dealing with uh noriega in this  
uh_huh  
no  
i haven't  
i have a a little bit  
i can't say that i'm i would be an an expert on on the region  
but uh certainly uh i it it gets it there  
your  
you've got this this toss up  
or not not so much a toss up but a a dilemma when when you want a country to have its its um own uh [dominion] or its free [rein] over its its own people  
and then on the other hand uh the uh the government in power that under what seem what seems to be popular support uh the sandinistas had to a given extent popular uh support um starts making [overtures] to the soviet union and and into what we consider our [sphere] of influence  
and now we're we're in this dilemma over uh united states is believes in democracy and and self determination where  
but that  
on the other hand we believe in self preservation and uh agree with the or not so much agree with but are terribly concerned about uh soviet influence in in what's considered to be the united states [sphere] of the world which is not only you we used to see [spheres]  
but now we're in a situation where the united states is looks like we're it now  
uh_huh  
right  
well he doesn't care as long as he's feeding his uh his family  
yeah  
well  
in looking  
if you look at the region in in uh  
to their [detriment] they came from uh this uh hundreds of years of spanish control  
and the and the [spaniards] have uh horrible history of corrupt uh government greedy uh [rulers] who have been uh [manipulating] [manipulating] their public for their own their own good  
i mean if you go back to the kings and and the the [conquistadors] coming in and and the incredibly horrible things they did to the uh the native tribes  
i mean they make uh they make the things that custer did look like uh like trivial  
and uh you get  
oh absolutely  
and you know we set up  
an  
i mean ted teddy roosevelt didn't have the reputation speak [softly] and carry a big stick for uh for nothing  
and uh  
right  
the only the only thing i see about cuba though is uh after fidel [castro] dies i don't think they'll be a communist power anymore  
i i can't see communism in that country carrying on past him  
yeah  
right  

well i i don't know if maybe communism is the right the right word for it  
but what we would  
there would have to be some kind of  
there there may be a point at which at which you've uh you might want to consider some kind of [socialistic] uh organization or [socialistic] set up to to deal with the problem and then be able to gradually [transform] back to a democracy  
right  
right  
but cocoa leaves sell real well right now it seems  
yeah  
absolutely  
i don't  
it's going to be hard to um  
we  
if you you  
that that's where your absolutely right is we've got to do something in that region to encourage uh or to make to make him growing bananas profitable again i mean  
right  
i've got to watch what i say here  
i never know when the d i a may be uh listening on my phone  
right  
yeah  
it's tempting  
it's got to be it's got to be horribly tempting for those those [peasants]  
yeah  
yeah  
you  
it's not it's not just a matter of uh of having an extra car or having a better car this is a matter for them of of feeding themselves their wife and their family  
and and you  
there's a certain degree of honor in being able to feed your family  
and there's [dishonor] in not being able to do it  
and  
no  
no  
uh_huh  
right  
okay i guess we're on  
central america have you ever lived in central america  
do you do you think that that we should have given up the panama canal  
well there are those that that that think that that that the panama canal has some considerable [strategic] importance particularly for the military  
interestingly enough my father was who was in world war one and as uh as a civil engineer they they they offered him a commission as a captain if he would uh go in and and uh help with the [defenses] of the panama canal  
he had worked for united fruit company there  
and they uh they in fact they had  
this was in the the late twenties  
and they in fact used some of the equipment that had been left over  
and uh he turned them down  
it it's interesting that that most people don't realize how small the canal is  
have you ever been there  
it's it's really  
i i haven't been there  
i've been to been to salvador  
and and uh in fact we went back to visit some friends of of my fathers that we went in fifty seven i guess  
and interestingly enough the canal is quite small and and realistically could be [sabotaged] quite quite easily  
the thing i find interesting though is that uh is the whole colonial approach  
and and and do we do we support the sandinistas or or do we support uh  
you know when they thought uh they thought that nicaragua if you gave them a free election they would vote for the  
will you uh  
did you ever studied the the political makeup there in in in nicaragua  
well the interesting part about it is that if realistically it was economic  
i don't know if you read any of the history on where the panama canal  
but there was an option to build it across nicaragua  
uh and uh there were uh there's a big there's a big lake  
and um from a technical standpoint it wouldn't have been a lot more difficult to have built it in nicaragua  
but the the united states uh had some  
and i've forgotten what the political influence was  
but there were economic ties then  
the issue of of  
if if it's in the economic interest of the united states uh do we go in and and [prevail]  
and and uh in other words do we make the world safe for democracy  
but if there's no economic benefit  
and i think particularly if you're if you're looking at the at the at the [peasant] uh whether he's in central america regardless of where he is is his life is his life better off under communism or or uh or democratic government  
you look at salvador where the  
yeah  
and and the question is does the government make a difference  
if they'll mostly leave him alone uh  
and i think that's the difficulty they that that we have that uh it it reality doesn't make uh doesn't make any difference if he has no income  
and apparently even some of our [alleged] uh central american leaders that uh are mostly democratic have done some pretty terrible things  
so it's uh  
it is it is interesting that that you know we we look at the [exploitation]  
and and and then we accuse some other people of exploiting them  
and and americans have uh have a pretty good reputation of exploiting  
you know we basically the panama canal we went in and and took it  
and we stole it fair and square  
i think is uh   well what's going to be interesting is to the see what the economic impact of of uh of the the region uh you know at the moment it the tremendous drug traffic through there  
but uh   the idea of of uh  
what's the what's america's role there  
and it it uh  
with with other things going on it it seems to have lessened  
but you've still got uh cuba that accepts [exerts] some influence  
well when you take a a situation where i think in particular in salvador where there is a significant under class excuse me  
and that uh  
you know having a a lot of difficulty uh surviving uh the question is would they you know would they be better off under communism  
and i wouldn't don't know that i would advocate communism  
but uh the question is can uh can you can uh can a democracy uh afford the  
it's like the street people that are starting to show up all other the u s is that   that's essentially an underclass  
and when you get enough of them uh you know communism would feed them all  
well that  
yeah  
if the guys got some incentive  
if he's got uh  
you know if he if he can raise enough uh coffee and bananas to uh where he's got something to protect  
other you know  
whether he can [export] or at least uh set up trade and all then democracy of a considerable interest  
yeah  
as well as some other various things that are growing in tropical environments  
yes  
but the but the question is you know if somebody offered you you know a thousand dollars a day to to grow something in your backyard would you do it  
well not that we could be bought  
but uh  
well of course everything we're saying is being recorded  
and  
of course  
of course  
particularly if you're hungry  
uh starving to death is not a not a whole lot of fun either  
and that  
uh and and you know   when somebody comes in an offers i think that's one of the real problems particularly when when the uh religious organizations you know the catholic church has been accused of a lot of things  
in reality i think what they were doing is basically going in and trying to feed some people and help them protect themselves  
not that they  
i'm i'm not sure the catholic church is is is particularly political  
but you know if  
good morning  
no  
no  
go ahead  
oh very good  
because actually um when i was in college i visited mexico several times  
i was in the peace corps and um   peru  
but but recently i have been following the middle east rather than   central america  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did that have  
um so you don't you don't feel that that we were um exploiting in the sense of we were [benefiting]  
and they weren't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did we tend to um change their attitudes  
like sometimes when americans go into foreign countries they tend to [flaunt] american things [americanism] um consumer products t v the whole works  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i was in peru  
but um i there weren't as i recall or at least i wasn't aware of that many americans there except for a very heavy concentration of peace corps volunteers  
this was when the peace corps first are started  
and it was one of the big targets  
and um i don't i don't think at that time at least peace corps was uh an obnoxious group in the sense that that we were very controlled regarding number of days off  
and   and you couldn't just take up take off and leave your group and go explore and and things like that  
but and i was working actually in the savings and loan program  
so that was quite specialized  
although i was living in the [slums] i was really working with the middle class  
i was up in [arequipa]  
and um  
uh_huh  
so  
i don't have any idea um  
probably not  
i mean there were i was uh peru thirteen which meant there were twelve groups before mine   that had gone in  
and and some of them were quite big in the sense they were community development  
and they were building schools and doing co [ops] and things like that  
health um [inoculation] and and things  
no  
no  
i believe they did  
because um some of some of the the peace corps uh that i knew of did marry [peruvians]   and have been back  
and every now and then some news filters in that they went to see some of the old things  
and of course the savings and loan program um that was that you know that that just continued to grow  
in fact after my group  
i mean we were just a very small specialized group too to get that going and spread  
and then of course peace corps [bowed] out of that because that's uh uh something that [nationalized] very quickly  
and the same with the co [ops]  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've you know some of the programs i would have concern about like um the language teaching you know  
i mean why should we push english  
and a lot of people were down there teaching english  
and when they talked about [hungary] or someplace one of the eastern law countries [requesting] peace corps to teach language you know to me that's a little bit [marginal]  
i did teach economics at the university one night a week  
and the textbook was in english  
but basically i taught it in spanish   because i mean i really didn't see the point in their knowing stuff [rotely] and writing it on a test  
good morning  
uh okay  
go ahead  
yeah  
i understand the topic this morning is uh our policy in latin america and you know what we've been doing down there  
so uh as you indicated you don't have too much input into the area  
it it just so happens that uh our daughter in law is panamanian  
and uh we have been in panama  
and i have worked in el salvador  
and uh we visit mexico occasionally  
so yeah  
we we do have a little information on it here  
but uh  
oh uh_huh  

yeah  
yeah  
it does seem to have quieted down there just a little bit  
that's that's for sure  
no  
i  
the u s policy uh towards central america as far as uh  
well i kind of go back to to the el salvador thing because texas instruments had a a plant down there for a while  
and i worked in there for a little while  
and at that particular time  
let's let's see  
that was seventy three seventy four kind of before the the uh the civil war really picked up down there  
and u s policy at that particular time there was of course military assistance to uh to the government itself you know  
anything that's that's anti communist you know we kind of had a tendency to be pro  
it don't matter what their [excesses] were  
and i believe at the time that i was down there that uh the government uh the [salvadorian] government you know really gotten out of hand yet  
the uh right wing death squad type situation  
i believe that that was beginning to form  
but i don't i i wasn't really aware of it's being you know terribly uh you know at the time that that i was down there  
i think that really kind of developed a little bit later on  
but uh our policies seem to be pretty much one of uh you know trying to setup businesses down there and use the one resource anyway that salvador had  
plenty of and that was people  
we didn't seem to be going in and taking anything out of the country other than just it's it's labor  
because everything that t i did anyway we we shipped in  
and it was worked on down there assembled and then sent back here  
so  
i didn't feel that we really exploiting them any  
no uh  
in the particular [incidence] that i was aware of now t i wasn't the only ones in there  
[playtex] was in  
there was uh several other companies  
and uh of course we kind of concentrate on  
there wasn't much to take out of the country  
i felt like we're going in and taken all their um their gold or oil   or bananas or coffee or anything like that  
because uh it just  
the only thing that they had a great abundance of was uh you know human beings  
and uh  
yeah  
i understand what you say  
there was a uh  
the time that i was down there i stayed quite a a bit at the uh uh one of the big hotels san salvador  
and at the time i thought there ought to be a law against american tourists because they for the most part tend to be the most obnoxious as a as a group  
and i saw this in panama also  
uh-oh you know it's it's the uh the almost stereotype you know  
[flowery] shirt shorts camera hanging around their neck you know demanding this that and the other thing you know  
we're we're here  
and we want this  
and we want that  
and that sort of thing  
that's that's the stereotype that's very strong down there you know  
the the the you know that sort of thing  
i i i believe those of us who were working down there got a little bit more [appreciation] for you know the local uh culture  
i really don't believe that we were quite that bad  
but yet they were having to deal directly with uh you know with the uh the local people  
and uh but boy  
there is a there is a bad uh uh you know the old [brash] or ugly american type   situation  
and i saw incidences in the hotel where i just wanted to go over and crawl in the corner and say oh my god  
those are those are not americans  
they can't be  
but there are  
and uh of course now i i do have to i remember one case where we had some canadians in there who were every bit as bad  
but i mean it i think it's just kind of the north american situation  
in panama they've been used to americans down there for so darn long  
but i didn't see quite as much of that sort of thing as panamanians are just about as as uh as as americans as far as uh creature comforts you know  
they're uh they're they're every bit uh  
i i know when my my son was in the air force  
and he was stationed in panama  
and he married a panamanian girl  
and when she came up here uh you know  
she's except for the language situation some of the cultures she's just about an american   you know is as far as t v and and you know the the [moneymaking] part of it and all that  
matter of fact if anything she's worse  
but uh uh it it just there's little [enclaves] down there where you know americans have a lot of influence  
and the local population kind of um you know sort of accepts that  
but i've also seen the other side of it too  
well you were in peru  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what uh what area did you live in  
oh okay  
yeah  
i've heard of it  
well is are they is peace corps still active down in there  
uh_huh  
oh has those influences lasted  
do you know whether the the things that that you and your groups before you did did those did those live on  
or were they [reabsorbed]  
or how  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's that was kind of the the aim wasn't it to get it started and then have it   taken up by the  
oh okay  
so you know well that's  
i had wondered sometimes  
i knew that there was a lot of a lot of effort  
and a lot of work went into a lot of that  
and i just wondered if if it lasted and if it took you know  
like   uh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
my brother in law teaches at uh northern illinois university  
and they were in china here a couple of years ago  
and he was over there at uh the university of [shah] and and teaching  
well we haven't really heard that much in the news lately about uh u s involvement in latin america since uh all this middle east crisis began  
so i haven't really paid that much attention like since back in august when all of the news and all of the media began to focus in on uh iraq  
and the so the last thing that i remember hearing that much about is the iran [contra] scandal that happened in the reagan presidency  
can you think of anything else that's happened recently  
uh_huh  
well the only uh references that i have seen lately has been uh in part of  
the [overmilitarization] of iraq was due to companies selling them arms and things  
and   and they made references to in the past how we have given arms to uh nicaragua and to other places in latin america and that those might turn around and [haunt] us someday  
i mean not not to this large scale as iraq  
but that  
whenever we give arms to people as we did and as we sold arms to pardon me to iraq when we wanted them to fight iran   and then uh and then it turn around and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i know when i spent  
the time that i've studied in mexico uh spanish was one of my majors in college that uh there was a kind of a lot of resentment there towards america  
about uh like you say using them  
our interest there is you know what profit we could make off of any kind of relationship with them  
and that we weren't normally very interested in them  
and they have  
in other in most latin american countries they there are a lot of the kind of problems that we've fought for in other countries you know  
that they have corruption  
and and they don't have uh  
i mean there's just very few really modern cities  
uh_huh  
well that's right  
because that's just so much of the way that they make their money  
and so many communities have uh have to have that for farming  
and they don't look at it so much as you know  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and i think it's really very sad that north of the border you know the united states and canada is so different   from the from south america   and central america  
there's really a disparity between the uh what a i would call civilization of the countries you know  
uh_huh  
yes  
it's really kind of sad and   that we would go all the way to iraq and that we would be very concerned with the situation between jerusalem and uh israel and the middle east arab countries and and when we have when we have a lot of problems right in our own back door  
um  
so i guess we've kind of neglected latin america  

recently  
yeah  
fairly recently  
well that's really sad  
i hadn't thought about that in a long time  
well i guess then i will go  
but i  
made me stop and think a minute about   not worrying so much about the middle east crisis  
i know that it's not settled but there are other areas that we could focus our attention on  
well thank you  
you have a good day  
bye bye  
no  
i would agree with you  
we haven't had too much  
but uh historically we've always uh almost been like a big brother to in and to the latin american area and uh almost used them  
i i i feel  
uh i think something will have to be done down there very soon about uh about mexico and and uh some of the other areas  
but but with the persian gulf as you said it's just uh been very quiet  
i i keep pretty close tabs on the paper  
and you don't hardly see a  
unless it's there and we're just not seeing it  
uh_huh  
well that's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i agree we're the largest [munitions] [producer] in the world  
and so uh there's a lot of money to be made there  
and it's uh be very difficult to to cut it back to a   a level where it should be  
and and uh it will come back to [haunt] us  
it seems to come in cycles  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
and the probably the biggest problem down there is that's where the that's the drug entry points  
and their economy is  
of several of the countries  
especially columbia is so built on the on on the drugs that uh our our little war on drugs has really been [laughable]  
it's just a you know such a small amount  
and it  
it just  
it uh cuts off just a [trickle]  
and uh if if we can't get a handle on that through some through some uh method i don't know where  
that will be another big problem  
right  
right  
and as long as we're the largest uh consumer then uh   this is the market  
if we can cut back the usage then uh maybe it will have to go someplace else  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right yeah  
we're just so much wealthier  
and uh   and uh there has to be resentment built up  
and that's where uh leaders can use uh use that whenever the opportune moment [arises]  
yeah  
that's right  
our own hemisphere  
but we've  
that's been uh that's been the way it's always been  
so uh  
very much so except when we need them  
you know when they found oil in mexico then we got very friendly with them again  
yeah  
um  
okay  
sure did  
always  
yes ma'am  
you too dear  
bye  
so how do you feel about our policy in latin america  
yeah  
well do you think that's do you think that's right  
do you think   we should direct the government  
yeah  
yeah  
well i have a friend that's uh  
his descendants are from uh uh nicaragua and uh very  
i mean it's like his mother his   mother came over  
and uh he you know  
i just get sorry feelings for people that their family came from there and how they feel about you know our intervention and their government and stuff like that  
and he he was all for it because it's just like you say uh  
there's so many people there that that get the kind of control that's bad you know  
and that their governments can become so corrupt  
and it's like well you know i use to feel like  
well they they should work their way you know  
they should should be able to work their self out of it  
or you know why why why [intervene] in another country's you know problems and things like that  
why why should we be the ones that have to do it and things like that  
but i think just a lot of times if we don't then then it then that influence will affect our country too for one  
and for two you know that it does help  
i mean you know i think the people in those country do want our help the people that are under conditions that are you know not favorable to this their rights  
so  
yeah  
but uh i wish we didn't have to  
i mean i'd rather  
even if a country chooses a government that's not you know exactly the kind of government that we have you know or or as in complete opposition to it at least it's their choice as long as long it's one that's that that makes since so to speak you know  
it is a government that stays in power that can stay in power  
but it seems like most of them don't   you know  
oh yeah  
so you think like c i a influence and our money over there  
yeah  
or   or government aids and stuff  
well then how can you how can you say as far as like in uh europe as far as the the [toppling] of those kinds of governments you know like  
i mean  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but we don't we're not intervening in that  
or do you think that we are to the degree that we are causing  
are  
and  
yeah  
see i   i agree with that  
yeah  
i i agree that that the communication that now that communication has   become so much more widespread and you know worldwide that people are realizing hey we don't have it so good and let's stand up  
you know uh this is ridiculous  
we're living with these kind of conditions in a world that's advancing as fast as it is  
that uh  
i think people are just saying no way we don't want anywhere of this  
yeah  
yeah  
well i mean i don't mean to  
well i guess i do in a way  
sometimes i think a religion has a lot to do with that  
i think that that uh because of those countries a lot you know where such catholic influence  
and i think the catholic religion itself was was such a dominant factor as far as keeping the people down   so to speak  
but  
uh  
but but see but i don't agree with that because the catholic religion as far as through the ages has been the rule so to speak  
you know they are the ones that set that set a lot of the rules  
and they are the ones that do keep the people down  
i mean when you a religion that most of the people go to church and they don't understand when anything is being said yet they're yet they're expected to bow down to it i think that keeps people in sort of line you know  
well when when it use to be latin  
i'm just saying   that   the old church  
yeah  
which it's not that way now  
but i think that there is just that i think that it's just latin countries are slower in coming around  
well latin  
uh they still didn't understand it though i don't think  
because i i [descend] from that  
and i you know i don't can't i don't understand latin  
and i'm of spanish descent  
so   um i i just think that has something to do with why [latinos] or tend to be you know the the more [meek] you know  
they tend to be more  
like not stand up for their rights as much  
they're not really sure of what they are i don't think  
well i mean how   can you contrast the europeans and their [vocalism] on their rights to to say the people in latin america  
i mean why are they why are they not as vocal  
or why do they not you know stand up so to speak for their rights  
uh_huh  
uh i don't   agree with that  
i don't agree  
because i think that they are pretty vocal about it in in uh africa  
i think they've made a lot more chances  
they they've their very vocal  
so what's the difference  
yeah  
so what makes the difference between say south america and the rest i mean south africa and it is rest of africa   yeah  
yeah  
i think it maybe has to do with a a lot to do with education  
because you look at the uh european countries  
i think they tend to be more educated much more   educated than than africa or the latin american countries  
uh_huh  
well i know that russia they're they're [comparably] more better educated than we are   in our country  
yeah  
yeah  
in our country  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's just it though good education  
is it good education  
it may be free but is it good education  
and that's just it  
are we willing to pay for it   you know  
i mean a lot of people [bitch] and [moan] about the taxes and all  
but so are they willing to   pay for you know quality education you know  
so you know and yet they yet people get very frightened when they see the japanese moving in and the russians moving in certain areas of technology you know that we use to dominate  
and it's like well you know they're educating their people to higher degrees than we do  
so you're going to have to expect it  
so what you  
are you willing to compromise a little and and pay pay some take some of that money out of your pocket and pay for good quality education  
so i don't know  
but i i  
oh i'm all in favor of it  
yeah  
no  
i uh i think we've been doing a pretty good job you know not uh not taking advantage of our you know of the financial dependence that most of the countries have on us you know uh  
i mean we could direct the government even more than we have been  
i don't think we've been doing too bad  
um  
well i think that uh as a whole that the being that the drug problem the drug industry can uh bring so much money to a country  
i think that if it wasn't for the united states government matching that the the drug uh [cartels] or whatever would control most the central and latin america  
just that uh money is power  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
but uh  
yeah  
well sometimes that's that's america doing that too   you know  
we we fall out of uh [agreements] with certain leaders  
and then amazingly enough the country starts turning against our leader you know  
it's uh  
that and uh that and  
yeah  
america starts talking then about removing bases and and whatnot and   stuff like that   and people  
right  
yeah  
i think that has a lot of things to did with uh um  
yeah  
that was uh  
i'm i'm really wondering whether that's going it settle down or not  
because on one hand you have you know that the you know the soviet government of course [mistreating] a lot of the uh [slovak] countries and then   on the other hand you have well  
they they were feeding us you know  
so uh   i don't know really what's going to happen  
oh  
yeah  
i think we're getting quite a  
put it this way i think  
no  
i think the people are   [revolting] themselves  
and we're uh   allowing   it to happen  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think   uh central america has always been one of those places where people are more passive you know   where it's always the minority that are are trying to make the country better  
i thought   it was the other way around  
they were always having to meet in the [catacombs] and all this  
so all the [persecution] that they're sort of use to it it's been   sort of like you know  
i don't quite understand that  
do they even understand what's being said  
oh yeah  
the old church  
yeah  
well they actually understood  
it is in america where it was hard  
latin you know   is very very very close to spanish  
yeah  
uh   yeah  
uh i never really thought of   it that way  
i don't know  
could be the   the economic still  
you know the  
there's  
the poverty level is certainly uh you know much worse in the latin american countries  
i mean you can say that about africa too  
i think it has something to do with the poverty level because africa is certainly not a catholic uh country  
and yet you know they have the same problem where you know   where kings and such  
well in south africa  
yeah  
in south africa i think they are  
but yet you know  
[idi] [amin] was you know in power for so long  
uh racial i think  
or like you say maybe communication of knowing that hey up in other english colonies or previous english colonies everything is equal and yet down there it's not  
you know i think communication does have a lot to do with it you know in education   maybe  
i don't know about education  
because the black community is still not very educated down there  
so i think it is communication  
it's just [oopsy]  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
you know that  
i don't know whether uh  
actually i i've always wondered whether how the education system works in the russian countries   the republics you know  
really  
that's good in a way  
you know uh something we compete with  
uh and i've been sort of disappointed how that they they say literacy rate has gone down you know  
that's sort of upsetting   to think that we're richer and yet everybody is intellectually poorer  
in our country  
yeah  
that is really upsetting  
and and considering it's free you know  
i mean good education is really still free  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh   uh_huh  
uh  
okay  
[dee] are you familiar with the latin american policies  
really  
yeah  
it's not mine either  
but uh i know i know our policy  
like in nicaragua i am familiar with that because we have uh some friends that live on the [nicaraguan] border  
and they are missionaries there  
and they they live there  
and they have to travel by boat forty five minutes to get to their car and stuff  
and uh i know that they helped a lot of those [sandanistas] refugees coming across the border  
and they [housed] them and stuff  
they have been down there about three years now  
and they wrote that it's kind of weird  
they have bats in their roof  
but the bats eat the bad [spiders]  
so they leave the bats you know  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think their policy with them that though is uh  
i don't know  
i think  
i wish we would have just  
i'm not that up on the policy of ways  
i know that's kind of old  
but i don't know  
i just i'm glad that the [sandanistas] aren't in power anymore because i think that they were very wicked and uh probably some of the biggest drug dealers that the world has probably ever seen  
and i feel like most of the leaders in latin america are probably  
you would be safe to say that they were just very very you know big into drugs  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
they need to have more checks and balances in their government to get rid of the corruption but i think first though  
i don't know  
they need to i think they need the repentance on the leadership of the different nations for all their uh you know the atrocities that they commit and the drug dealings and in the just in the drug crimes  
because i feel like a lot of the leadership in those nations are so engrossed in the drug crimes that until they [repent] or they are moved from power that you know  
because there are so many of them that the next one to come up if you just knock one off and then have another one  
and i know a lot of those nations there's uh brazil i know is like forty percent [evangelical] christian not just go to church but you know really on fire for god  
and they are just [surpassing] america latin america by the drugs  
you know it's just incomprehensible  
and uh so i just think that i think that god is going to honor that and that he is going to put in some good leadership  
and i know the president of i believe costa rica is a christian  
and he goes to no guatemala because he goes to [virgo] church in guatemala city  
the church is in real close relationship with him  
and he is a former president of guatemala  
he's an [elder] at [virgo] church  
and you know that that god is doing something  
and he is raising up some leaders  
and the people want him back as president bad  
but they have a rule in guatemala that he can't have another term  
and so the the people are trying to [override] that i mean not just the christians but all the people because they see when a [righteous] man is in authority the people [rejoice]  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know that costa rica they don't allow anybody to come that uh to come any uh what do you call what do you call immigrants  
they don't allow anything like that  
like i could not go to costa rica and live as an american citizen  
they would not permit me to live there to work  
they wouldn't  
their jobs are there for costa [ricans]  
they don't allow people to move in like less nations you know  
take the job  
no  
they don't take any  
i mean i couldn't even go there  
my husband had to receive all this special permission to go  
so even with uh you know in uh inner company you know transfer or something  
and i have another friend in uh costa rica that  
she was born there  
she's costa rican  
i guess i do know a little bit  
i went to mexico city one time and stayed  
i have been there twice and stayed  
and that [aw] that was just really sad  
but a lot of it though is their debt  
i think that we should not loan them anymore money  
that if we still want to give them money give them money quit loaning it to them  
you're not going to get it back  
don't be indebted to anybody  
don't be the [loaner] or [borrower]  
it's just not good  
we need to if we feel like we need to give them money then give it to them  
but quit loaning all the money out  
which i don't think we are loaning anymore now  
but that's how we got into a problem  
if we got the  
we have we went in the hole by us loaning them all of these billions of dollars  
that's common sense  
you could just look at it and say they're not going to be able to pay us back  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  

yeah  
we we are it's like we are partly responsible for their problems by loaning them all that money  
that was really stupid on our part to even loan it to them  
you don't loan money to people like that  
i mean if you feel like you need to give them something to help them out fine  
but you don't go making billions of dollars of loans in to people that you can just look at the situation  
yeah  
and know that they are going to be capable of paying us back  
and that puts a [bondage] on them  
it makes you know pressure on the nation and on the people and on the leadership and makes their inflation go up  
and it's just a big mess  
no  
but i knew people  
i was there before that  
but i knew people  
i got a letter from a friend of mine that i had met there that who who the apartment building was destroyed  
and they were living in a tent  
so it's kind of weird you know  
to these people who were on u s dive the mexican diving we went to the pool together and watched them dive and all this  
so they were you know just normal people weren't [squatters] or poor people or anything that uh  
i did i knew all of my friends there  
but none of them that i know of got killed in it  
but uh they're all christians though  
god really protected them  
see that broke out a [revival] in mexico city that c b s news and a b c never told you about  
there's been a real [revival] in mexico city since that earthquake because there's a lot of you know there's a lot of sin in those nations and a lot lots of witchcraft a lot of witchcraft a whole lot of witchcraft   so a lot of it in the name of christianity  
oh yeah  
there's a lot you know  
they call themselves christians  
but you know they are over there doing witchcraft and stuff and just a whole lot of the generational things too like the [mayans] and the [incas]  
you can't find a trace of them because god totally destroyed them for how wicked they were  
and yet they are [revered] and honored and almost [worshiped] by  
so many people  
even now in america you know we wouldn't know the truth with all of indian groups that were totally removed from the face of the earth because of how wicked they were  
i've been down to the [pyramids]  
and i have climbed to the top of the [pyramid] where they used to take a beating heart out of a young thirteen year old boy  
and they hold it up to the sun god  
and that's pretty of heavy duty  
i don't think so  
the little box is black on the top of the [pyramid] in the sun  
it's black  
so  
yeah  
you can't really tell  
but it was kind of weird you know  
you think wow there is where they did sacrifices to false gods  
uh at that time i kind of did  
it really impressed me just you know feeling  
but i wasn't a christian when i went there  
but uh i think that a lot of those those you know generational things  
i think that god sees i'm praying you know  
that keeps the christians that are beginning to rise up there to be able to pray because that does affect that things you know in your background  
yeah  
to a point  
it's not my best subject  
yeah  
it's a whole whole different culture  
or   it it's weird down there because there's always lizards and things running around that people live there  
they just they take it for granted  
and it's like we go down there on vacation  
it's like oh how can these people live with these lizards and like bats in their house  
very very corrupt like the panamanians are were very corrupt  
the thing about it though is the panamanians is a lot of servicemen down there  
a lot of a lot of american servicemen are involved  
because i guess there was a big big uh scam that that all these guys up  
thousands of servicemen   got caught for running a drug ring  
so it's it's like everybody is into it  
it's just greed   human greed  
interestingly in honduras   it's very pro american  
and we have i  
my girlfriend used to uh be in the navy  
and she was based uh based in panama  
in honduras very uh uh pro american  
and there's a lot of men i don't know how many american uh  
soldiers are there  
but there's a lot  
i mean they uh  
and you can't the american government you can't trust them either because you think you don't know how corrupt they are i mean they keep people in power like the [shah] of iran and   things like that  
i mean it's the lesser of two evils  
they will probably say this is the lesser of two evils  
but i don't know how corrupt the [honduran] government is  
but the  
yeah  
good  
see that's the thing  
that it's going have to  
that's the [undoing] of everything  
and it's the  
we have no morals when we talk about the crime and all that in the city  
it's just the kids have no morals  
that's the thing that will eventually you know  
if anyone is going to be saved  
it is having a good moral background  
and it's funny you mention costa rica because they are just they are one of the most successful and peaceful countries   in central america  
so i was reading an article in the uh national geographic  
and i don't know  
i don't think they have any more money than any of the other countries  
they don't have oil or anything  
and they don't have big tourism  
so maybe it is their faith that enables them to keep the crime out  
they don't they don't probably take a lot of refugees from other countries either  
yeah  
also uh uh mexico uh we will loan the money in uh  
a lot of the higher the higher people   were just stealing it and   building these beautiful homes   and nice ranches and things  
so we are we're suckers  
they know they're not going to pay it back  
did you go to mexico city uh anywhere near when the earthquake hit  
oh i can imagine  
oh really  
yeah  
is is there still blood [stains] on the [altar]  
or has it worn away through the years  
do you get [spooked] you feel  
or do you get [butterflies] in your stomach when you go there  
because  
well thanks for being home uh on the weekend  
i uh i'm actually working at night  
and uh there very few people that are on the list for calls uh on the weekends nights  
are are you part of the school system out there  
uh the reason i said that because i've had about uh three calls and my daughter had one too from different students out of north carolina  
i guess they pass the names amongst your computer students or whatever  
oh is that  
great  
great  
oh is that right  
that's wonderful  
oh yeah  
i talked to one  
we're not on the subject of course  
i talked to one  
i think he had a whole bunch of calls  
he had a roommate that had calls and everything  
he had way more twice as many calls as as i've made uh  
and i i'm  
of course we at t i just hoping it works out that the new products that they come out will uh sell like gang books [busters] really  
okay  
you first on the subject  
what do you think about latin america  
latin america  
yeah  
oh really  
t i had a place  
i'm not too sure  
i don't think they do anymore  
down  
i think it was [campinas]  
i'm not sure  
and uh i guess we were selling parts to the automotive industry or whatever  
and they had quite a few uh locations  
not quite a few several in latin america  
i think the one in new mexico is closed  
and i think the one in in brazil is closed  
but i i don't know why that is a problem down there  
and i guess the crime rate is terrible up here too  
and uh an  
some people say go to new york  
but i don't i don't have an answer to the crime rate  
it's sad  
that is a sad situation  
i i'd like to go down to mexico you know  
and i keep hearing that you know the government and and the crime rates pretty high too  
that that is sad   uh not that we can uh sell any great program we have with crime  
but uh i think uh i'm kind of like you  
i don't have any strong opinions on it  
i guess maybe that's our biggest problem we have with our our neighbors down there is that we don't have any  
we have more  
i guess ties  
we in the united states have more ties to europe and everything  
and we don't really aren't that close to everyone in south america  
i don't really know why though  
right  
right  
yeah  
i know that i saw in a book  
i was reading a spanish book uh not that i read spanish you know  
i just you know reading some spanish words  
and there was a comment in there about the mexicans don't really want us to say we're americans  
they would like to say that we're north americans because they're americans too you know  
and i guess that's true  
we don't think of any one else but  
i guess we're kind of uh the smart [asses] in the world i suppose uh or of america anyway  
we think of ourselves as the only americans when they're americans too  
as mexicans  
yes  
that that  
no  
no  
i know  
yeah  
no  
i mean they were saying that of us that we're the north americans and they're americans  
they they  
we always say we're americans  
and they they want us to say we're the north americans  
we're not americans  
we're north americans  
and they're south americans  
yeah  
whatever  
i i don't want to make  
i read it somewhere though  
it's not my point i guess  
so  
no  
no  
they they were lucky enough to have some oil what ten years ago an  
and they they blew all that and borrowed more money than they can pay back now  
and uh uh so they're not exactly business men  
i do think we should deal more with them  
i don't i do have a lot of sympathy in that we're here in texas uh  
for the language you know is very foolish  
i'm relatively familiar with texas school system  
and we should teach spanish at least in uh grammar school you know four or five grades of it so that we can speak spanish  
i think that helps when you certainly can speak their language uh  
and there are problems with you know the wet back problem you know  
for everyone knows what we're talking about  
say wet back problem  
and then we should somehow uh  
and i think the governments are working on that to try to have some uh businesses uh at the borders of both sides so that you can you don't have this problem of them trying to come up here an to to get the jobs you know  
there there may be some organized way to do this  
i i do feel for them uh  
they are very envious of us or they wouldn't be coming up here you know risking a lot  
not that they're risking their lives of course but risking a lot uh  
getting thrown back i guess is all that uh happens  
you probably don't see that  
where  
we see it you know once a month i'm sure in san antonio they see it more often than that  
okay  
well you see it saw it out there then too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think a a common factor to a lot of problems both whether it be crime if if you want to jump on that is mostly uh poverty  
uh and i think a lot of their problems is poverty  
if we could uh uh  
the problems we have in this country is is a lot of it's poverty  
whether it's the people aren't trying hard enough to get out of poverty i that's another story  
but uh uh it is sad  
there there's so much down in all of south america uh so much potential you know  
we're  
t i of course is is really pushing world markets in their products  
and they're they're mostly in in europe now and in in in the [orient] japan and singapore now just announced building a plant in singapore uh  
they're in taiwan and japan  
and they're they haven't had what that much luck in south america  
and there's got to be a lot of potential for business down there for the products certainly that we make and everything  
and there's got to be trade  
i guess that's some of the answer i guess is business uh uh  
and i try to be an [optimist] and say well that that's one way is to help any problem whether it be crime or certainly poverty obviously is to is to get some business going between each other  
and we need we need to do more of that uh somehow and encourage more business   between us  
they've got to have a lot of resources i would think an enormous amount of of well potential that way  
a lot of it of course is hot and [jungle] and all that  
but uh there's got to be a lot of potential down there  
what are you taking in school  
i didn't ask you that  
what are you taking in school  
oh you're an instructor  
yeah  
you're an instructor  
yeah  
you said  
that's great  
are you teaching computer science  

you said what were you saying you were teaching there  
great  
great  
right  
i of course i work at t i  
and i'm a little puzzled as to why when they get my voice one time why that isn't enough  
i mean i'm i'm i'm getting a kick out of the whole program  
but uh there's going to be i guess thousands i don't know how many thousands or tens of thousands of these recordings  
and i wonder how they're going to analyze them whether it would be listening to them or analyzing  
i  
they've got to be analyzing with a a voice recorder some how  
uh_huh  
right  
oh yes  
i know they change with age  
i know mine changes uh has changed uh  
although you you never found  
your your voice echoes in your own head which is makes it different than what it really sounds to other people  
uh i'm sure singers and professional people know that  
and you always hear your own voice in recordings and say my god that's that's not obviously that's not me you know  
but uh i know your voice in your own head [resonates] a different way  
uh go ahead  
you comment on it  
yeah  
i'm glad that you're in the business  
that  
i  
t i gotten with their speak and spell and everything  
i've told my wife that one of the reasons they're doing it is because eventually you'll be able to talk to your computer  
you wouldn't have to have a keyboard  
you'll be able to just give it commands  
and i'm sure they have some of that now  
and not not in computers but a lot of potential of course for handicapped people  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well sometimes i'm home  
and sometimes i'm not  
but if i am it's always fun to talk  
i am as a matter of fact  
i'm at uh north carolina state  
yeah  
i think i was the one who did that actually  
yeah  
i had a uh  
i teach a course in voice i o systems  
so i know uh you know i know about this project  
so i got my students to sign up  
and uh apparently a number of them have been participating  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh let's see  
the subject is latin america  
i don't know whether i have any real profound thoughts about that  
i actually was planning a trip to latin america  
and i got warned off by some people  
they say peru can't be traveled to  
and the crime rate in brazil makes it not a pleasant place to go and so on and so forth  
yeah  
yeah  
i i don't understand it either although i i think a lot of south americans regard the united states as as [bullying]  
and uh that's certainly from a historical point of view would be true  
i mean certainly we took far more from mexico than saddam hussein ever dreamed of taking in in his [wildest] dreams from his neighbors  
yeah  
well i think they're going to have  
that's a tough row for them to to hoe because i think most of the world is going to regard uh citizens of the united states as americans and citizens of mexico as mexicans  
and they can stand on their heads if they want too  
but i don't think that they're going they're going to change that  
and   and and really i mean north americans i think are when you say that even i i mean i tend to think of americans and canadians  
i just don't think of mexicans as being north americans although i guess strictly speaking they are  
oh i see  
i don't know  
yeah  
well it's it's so interesting i i just don't think [mexico's] problems are going to be cured by [semantics]  
yeah  
yeah  
well i grew up in los angeles  
and uh in fact i drove a cab when i was a graduate student  
so i i knew uh the hispanic part of l a pretty well  
and certainly you know knew that problem  
knew you know knew about apartment houses that would have eight or ten or twelve people living in them sleeping in the same bed in shifts and all that  
and uh it was it was pretty wild  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh   i'm sorry  
well i am actually  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm the i'm the teacher  
i give as it were  
yeah  
i'm in computer science  
and   uh very interested in voice systems and in speech recognition  
but of course this project is really one to collect a data base of of uh of casual speech uh in an attempt to get some kind of a model of what speech is like  
yeah  
well they record these  
and then somebody [transcribes] them so that they   they have uh they have a speech signal  
and what  
and what is said  
and they have a they're able to average it over a number of different occasions because peoples voices change a lot even from morning to evening  
and that's uh a big problem in speech recognition  
yeah  
yeah  
right  

well what do you know about latin american policies  
uh_huh  

huh   are you uh relating this uh to the uh affair we've got going on in haiti right now  
right  
that that's just it  
right  
i guess my concern you know no matter which no matter which side we take we're going to have [supporters] and we're going to have uh [antisupporters] i guess for lack of better term  
and uh like you said they're such small countries that we're bound to upset somebody  
but we seem to be lacking the ability to take a stance  
right  
right  
that's true  
sure  
yep  
that's about the lump sum of it  
well um i was speaking with a a woman  
from i believe she was from the honduras or guatemala or somewhere in there  
no  
she was from el salvador  
and uh she was from a relatively wealthy family  
and when uh the [contras] came into power of course with  
uh-oh gosh darn what's his face  
he's in in florida jail now  
marcos  
uh no  
he's marcos is philippines  
well you know who i'm talking about  
yeah  
i i know it uh  
anyway when he came into power he basically just took everybody's property you know just assigned it to himself  
right  
right  
and uh so she's been a real strong supporter of the sandinistas and has been trying to back the u s government in that respect  
and in that respect i have to agree that i think we're taking the right stance   uh because they were a democracy turned uh  
yeah  
right  
basically a dictator fascist  
sure  
well what do you think of uh this uh u s free trade agreement we're working on with mexico  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
mexico  
they're i know they're trying they're really trying the mexican government is trying  
and a lot of the larger mexican businesses are trying to oh make themselves [americanized] i guess   and uh which is great because that's what they basically need to do  
the big problem with the united states is we have our basic nine to five schedule   you know  
and   we don't have the [siesta]  
and there's the cultural differences is what's is what's kind of it's what's really hurting uh the mexican people because they've had their way of life  
and we've had our way of life  
and uh  
well i think they're kind of ambivalent really  
uh i just have a feeling that we've kind of talked out of both sides of mouths down there like we do in some other situations   you know  
we we don't know half the time we don't know who to support  
that and you know maybe it's maybe it's tough for a big powerful nation to deal with with uh countries like that that depend on us so much   without you know just telling them running their country for them  
but  
it's got to be tough  
but i mean uh uh you sure you still have to you know let them know how you feel  
yeah  
it worries me that uh the economy of so many countries in in south america and central america depend on something that damages people like the you know like cocaine   from columbia  
and   uh you know of course i i'm sure we have some enemies down there who wouldn't care what happened to us  
but   but that is that's a tough deal  
and it  
i don't think that  
maybe i maybe it's you know i'm reflecting how i feel about it  
but i have a feeling that we that we really don't understand basically the the the competing factions in lot of those countries  
and   i mean they've been [hammering] for the last you know ten centuries  
and it's still going on  
and uh we we dabble in it just enough to make both sides angry at us some how   some times  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
um well i'm blank on it  
i can see his face forget his name  
yeah  
kind of [nationalized] it   for himself  
yeah  
dictator  
yeah  
and it seems like those countries are so easily susceptible to that kind of thing  
it just   you know unstable  
well i think it's long [overdue]  
uh i just you know  
there's so much difference in in the economies of the two countries i'm not you know i have a problem uh with whether it's going to work or not you know  
there's uh it seems like there's  
and i  
this may be unfair to mexico  
but it seems like there's a lack of honesty in in foreign policy a lot of the times  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think their their version of the good old boy network going that  
uh you know has a lot  
yeah
uh so the thing is i traveled to uh i traveled all over uh south america a few years ago when i was in college
and uh picked up a lot of history and uh and uh a lot of cultural knowledge from that experience uh have you had any experience with it or have you read or have you any interest in it
well it was interesting for me i hadn't taken much uh history or any classes or anything on it at school
and uh the person i was traveling with knew a lot about it uh
and she kind of explained a lot of things that were going on there
but uh uh it was interesting to to see a lot of uh the history and how they've sort of developed into some of the patterns that each of the countries have been through when i was traveling around down there
uh_huh
yeah
there was a perception particularly in brazil and argentina that the united states had was really to blame for a lot of the economic oppression that was suffered down there because uh something like after the war
we gave all sorts of special trade preferences to europe to help
them recover and completely ignored the south american beef and and what other industry they had down there
it was sort of the united states that was kind of choosing their fate you know
who would make it and who wouldn't
yeah
yeah
huh
yeah
yeah
uh in fact a lot of those same sort of stereotypes [impressions] i had before i traveled around down there
and one of the things i learned was that there is an incredible amount of diversity especially from country to country
but even within countries you know you you've got uh uh different races uh in in the [andean] countries you have a big uh indian race you know
and mexico has a lot of that
and that's why you know you get sort of the spanish mexicans who who aren't really as common that you see in the united states and and the uh the the poor uh ethnic uh you know indian uh uh races and cultures and everything
and there's a there's a big mixture
and then like brazil has a lot of people of african descent and all different races
and then you you deal with a lot of issues that are sort of even a [microcosm] of of the racial issues in the united states where like people in argentina
all right you know like you said i haven't been keeping track of what all has been going on in central america myself um
and uh huh_uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i know what is it your talking about um i've i've listened to a lot of things going on
i mean the [manuel] noriega panama thing i think was probably the right thing to do
i mean the guy was just blatantly going out and shooting americans and and uh so i think what they did
there was
right
i'm not so sure about what they're doing in some of the countries where we're supporting [guerillas] that are fighting the communists you know that are in there because it never seems to really work you know we end up throwing in money and a lot of people getting killed
and when push comes to shove we seem to back out on the [gorillas] like we did on the kurds
like we did in the late seventies
and so that kind of thing concerns me um it's the things that we're not doing that we should be doing like right now there's a big [outbreak] of uh of course it's a little further south in south america
but there's an [outbreak] of uh what is it [cholera] peru and all
it's gotten into columbia now
and it looks like it's going to be pretty serious uh thing there they're talking about it lasting for ten years
yeah
and it's already gotten into brazil a little bit
and it has to do with the fact i mean in that part of the world
they just dump raw [sewage] right into the rivers
i mean things that we don't do here anymore because we know how bad it is for you
yet they're they're you know they're steadily doing it now
they actually don't have [filtration] systems
some of the major cities do um but for the most part
most of those countries flat out pump it right into the rivers and let it float on down and pump it right out into the ocean
and that's that is how they deal with it
and you know they're just steadily polluting that part of the part of the world that way
um the other thing is the economic assistance right now we're starting we're starting to have free trade with mexico
and my god this is something we should have done years ago and mexico is our closest neighbor they've been in financial trouble for years
and i think we've [exploited] them
i mean when i was in texas
i noticed that you know you think uh of texas
and you have good meat and fresh vegetables and all that
well most of the vegetables they sold in texas came from mexico
and so did the meat
the meat that was raised in texas they sent back east to sell because they had get more money for it
and uh
yeah
the marcos huh_uh
right
huh_uh
huh_uh
that's great
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
that probably has some bearing on it
um there is always a tradition of just doing enough to get by
they're not as motivated as uh as we are
and people farther south
now you know once you you get down into [chile] and argentina
and those kinds of areas their climates are pretty much the same as ours
yeah
yeah
and while we're sitting here talking about it
i'm thinking you know we know every darn thing that goes on in europe
you know i mean we know what's going on in poland we know what's going on in [rumania] we know the [germanies] are getting back together
we didn't you know we all know what's going in europe
but we never here anything about what's going on you know in south and central america
or unless we're sending thousands of troops down to kick somebody's butt
yeah
we just don't pay any attention to them
it's it's you know it's it just doesn't make any sense i mean we're in the same hemisphere so to speak
i mean you know the same side of the earth
i mean
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
i mean it doesn't it really doesn't make sense to me
i don't know
you know it's i mean they've never really been a real force in the world
i mean uh we heard about argentina only when it tried to take over the [falcons] and england had to go down there and kick their butt
um
so it's it's like really strange that we never pay that much attention
i i you know i just find myself lacking in a lot of knowledge about south america
i'd like to think
i know a lot about a lot of things
but you know i have something is [amiss] here
as far as as the amount of information that's available
okay uh  
why do you think it uh sounds  
do you think we should adopt it  
you don't  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i i agree with you  
i don't think we should either even though i know there are benefits to the metric system  
i don't think the benefits of the metric system [outweigh] the the disadvantages that would happen to the people in america  
and also the uh  
i don't know  
it seems almost like there's this it's a peer pressure thing is why we keep wanting to do it is so we'll look good to the other nations  
because i think they that's an area that the other nations especially europe look down on us like oh we're just backward [wayward] children who still use this backward system who haven't really [attained] it yet  
and i feel it's just pride of why they keep trying to push it on us  
and it's like hey we're content with this  
no  
it's probably not as accurate  
probably you know intellectually doesn't  
it's not as sound intellectually but like you said i mean come on  
i had six years of college  
and i don't know the metric system and i don't care to learn it  
and i'm not some kind of an idiot  
i just  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
there's a lot of   people  
like you're educated  
i'm educated  
my husband is  
but i mean a lot of people are flat not educated  
and if i have a hard time you know   putting that into my life can we put that off on the other eighty percent of the population that doesn't have any college  
or i don't know how much of the   you know  
but a large percentage probably over half of the rest of the population   they don't have any college probably much at all  
and if we can't take it and use it easily well how can you put that on like elderly people and   you know just people that maybe just aren't blessed with as as much [sharpness] and mental [acuity]  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it failed too  
because like what you said of just you know hey this is ridiculous  
the thing americans have so much stress on them right now  
i mean if you look at the average family it's like man they barely have time to stop and get gas much less to try and figure out how much gas they're really getting and   do all this  
it's like i mean come on let's take the pressure  
yeah  
and it's just like another thing  
the american family doesn't need any more pressure  
just leave them alone  
let them measure their drinking water in cups  
and   leave them alone  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's  
and and if they don't like the way we do it just get off our don't worry about it and i think  
right  
it is  
because it is another language  
yeah  
that's funny  
well that's good  
i think we kept it at real good  
is that all we need to say  
you too  
i think that was good  
that was the best one  
usually i get distracted off the topic  
you know what i mean  
and we'll end up one man was telling me about his grandfather in lithuania  
and we were talking about something income tax or something  
and i just  
anyway i appreciate it  
have a good day  
no  
i don't like metric system  
i i i think the country is is uh too [ingrained] in the inches and and just the general uh background  
the history of our country has been inches  
and i don't think there's a big advantage in going to the metric system  
it it's going to [disorient] and [confuse] a lot of people for years and years  
and there are going to be people who die because of it because they don't understand uh you know simple things from the amount of medicine they should take to how fast they can drive   and you know how far away something is  
and it's it's not in our national consciousness to do it  
we've always measured things in the english system   and you know everything you know  
our land is in acres  
our people aren't going to understand what   an amount of something is  
yeah  
yeah  
and it's easy to  
we have a computer for just about everything now  
and if it's necessary to translate back and forth between them it can be done  
because i'm a mechanical engineer  
and i've had to work when i was designing packages for people  
i mean i had to to work both systems   back and forth  
and it was not hard  
and you get you can get a cat cam system that can take any design you want  
and you can push a button  
and it'll convert every measurement on there   you know from one system to the other   in seconds  
really  
yeah  
absolutely  
oh yeah  
it's just  
or or even have had the ability you know the chance to to go to college or to to   to learn about  
i think it's still good they do cover the system  
i think it should still be taught in schools  
and they do  
i know now because i  
even when i was in elementary school years ago   they were you know we learned what a centimeter was and a [decimeter] and the various you know   basically the other alternate forms of measurements things like that  
and and that's acceptable  
yeah  
really  
you know you need twenty gallons but do you need how many liters  
yeah  
yeah  
and it it just doesn't it just doesn't make that much difference in the average life  
and the scientific community and places where it's needed   you know that's fine  
and the rest of the world i mean we are  
it's not  
we may not be the top  
i don't know if we're the top  
we're one of the top [superpowers] of the world  
it may be arrogant  
but i mean let them come to us  
that's kind of the way i feel about it  
we can convert  
yeah  
it it's kind of like expecting everyone to suddenly speak german   you know  
yeah  
and and instead of saying the world speak german we found out that we can translate  
and that's what i think we ought to do with the metric system  
okay  
yeah  
it's been nice talking to you  
okay  
yeah  
all right  
well good talking to you  
bye bye  
so how do you feel about the metric system  
yeah  
and it's  
i forget how many [millimeters]  
so you used the metric  
uh yeah  
yeah  
uh yeah  
yeah  
uh i work in metal fab  
and tenths of inches are are normal  
and you know you know it is broken up in you know the inch is broken up and has been for quite some time for in tenths [hundredths] thousandths ten thousandths of an inch  
yes  
i am  
i i have a suzuki motorcycle  
and and i've had motorcycles japanese motorcycles for years and years  
and the metric system comes easy to me  
but my  
right  
yeah  
yeah  

yeah  
to go from from eighths to [sixteenths] to uh thirty seconds and remember where it falls it  
yeah  
i drink beer  
yeah  
whiskey is in liters  
and and the next  
yeah  
point seven five liters and then liters and then one point seven five liters  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i always wondered about that myself  
and and they had quarts at the same time though  
yeah  
it's  
liters  
yeah  
it it's like i say i work in a machine shop  
and uh everything's still inches  
everything's still fractions of inches or or tenths   or thousandths or or  
yes  
it is a mental thing  
it is a conversion thing  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
but what really annoys me is the way we in the united states have been converting to metric  
we have a eighty nine chevy blazer  
and before that we had a horizon uh you know plymouth horizon  
and both of them were a [mismatch] of both american and metric  
uh okay  
the engine itself was mostly metric because it came from canada  
and the starter was [bosch] american  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
it was it was annoying  
one one half of the starter you know three bolts on the starter  
and two of them were american  
and one of them was metric  
and uh you go from the uh water pump up to the radiator  
and on the water pump it was all metric  
and and on you know the factory fittings you know the factory uh   screw lock   uh uh radiator hose [clamps]  
yeah  
right  
it's it's not a problem either way  
like i said my only complaint is where they mixed them on the same car  
and you go to look at it  
and you don't know which set to reach in american or metric  
and and you're never quite sure  
well is that a metric bolt  
right  
right  
it it can be annoying  
and my other concern is is the american government going to force us to go  
oh absolutely  
yeah  
yeah  
they're not going to change that to [meters]  
it will always be  
twelve  
yeah  
there's twelve troy ounces to the pound  
yeah  
and and is that going to change too  
uh  
i don't remember  
i i read it  
and are we still going to maintain [drams] for perfume  
it's all metric all ready  
and what will a shot be  
will a shot be an ounce  
and the other one's two point one [kis]  
and and you're you're lost  
oh yeah  
the economy  
uh what i was thinking about is an economical issue concerning it uh  
a [machinist] has a huge number of dollars invested in tooling  
personal tools to be able to do his job  
uh tools for set up and for measurement  
uh you got to have a one tenth indicator  
it's a hundred dollars uh  
five tenths uh usually two one tenth [indicators]   at a hundred dollars each uh  
five tenths indicator at about a hundred dollars  
you got to have uh six inch set of [calipers] at anywhere from sixty to a hundred twenty dollars  
you got to have a zero to one for sixty dollars uh  
one to two inch [micrometer] for sixty dollars  
a two to three for eighty dollars  
a three to four for eighty dollars  
real fast  
real real fast  
edge [finders] and  
well i know  
because okay  
your end mills will be measured in inches or fractions of inches  
you know  
what size hole  
as in metric size hole or a or an american sized hole  
yeah  
yeah  
well and thread  
oh i like it  
i i i have a foreign actually i have more than one foreign automobile  
and i i i find the uh i find the the [nondecimal] system with all the [halves] and quarters  
i was trying to build a shed  
and they give you these measurements like forty two and three eighths inches  
and we had to go a little less and trying to figure what's less than three eighths uh  
well no  
what we did was wind up using  
and you just go you just go down  
and and you get out the the so many inches  
and and we just marked a little bit less than that uh which is somewhat awkward  
but had it been [millimeters] you could have done  
i think what's interesting  
the way engineering people do is they  
they in essence have gotten around it by by listing uh decimal inches  
do are you involved in any engineering drawing stuff that  
well have have you do you are you involved in any other uh metric type things like  
i think it's interesting you you know when you go out there  
and you're looking for a wrench  
and you want the next size larger  
i've got i inherited some some stuff like fifteen thirty seconds  
well now that one's fairly easy because that's probably slightly under half an inch  
but some of them like like twenty seven  
and and there are some thirty seconds and some of the things that that uh don't translate  
yeah  
and and you've got to go over there and try it  
and i suppose you know i need a larger one  
i need a smaller one  
i mean obviously you can look at it and say well anyway  
i think the other thing that's interesting is that a lot of our stuff is already changed that we haven't  
i don't know  
do you do you drink adult [beverages]  
have you noticed that um that a lot of the um a lot of  
yes  
it's like a fifth like fifths of whiskey i thought was always kind of strange  
what's a fifth of whiskey  
it was a marketing ploy  
yeah  
but the idea was is that by with five fifths um they could uh they could uh they could sell five  
and and um it was simply a ploy to to get people you know   to buy to buy more for  
it's uh i find that interesting  
but it's like you know the the the the soda and this kind of things coming in   one liter bottles  
and um i i think it's kind of generational  
although i must admit that that i am not i i'm not [conversant] in saying you know that's three centimeters away i mean or or or   yeah  

yeah  
it's it's hard to think   though  
it's like a mill you know  
we we do uh um well we use a one mill bond wire or one point five mill bond wire on   on semiconductor devices  
and well what's a mill  
and  
yeah  
don't you find that interesting uh that they that that they're doing that uh in any field  
for why why why pieces  
could you could you get any connection on which was metric and which wasn't  
oh okay  
the bolts were were were were english then  
now that's strange  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
essentially they do that though  
because if if you look at general motors the size  
and and and of course ford and chrysler  
if they all went if they all went metric  
but in a sense um you know it's like when a measurement though when when you put uh you know one point four three two inches when you're [milling] something uh   you simply set your uh equipment  
or or you or you got your [calipers] there  
and and you measure you know  
you [mic] it to see if it's accurate  
and  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
you get you a pair of metric [pliers] right  
and you beat on it  
and a metric hammer  
oh i think i don't think so  
i i think that uh i think they've now just taken the attitude that well if it happens if it  
because it there a lot of things that that uh um like sports you know  
it's a hundred meter  
and uh uh but automobile races  
if it  
i don't think they'd ever  
it's still going to be the indianapolis five hundred  
they're not going to  
yeah  
and and it i i don't think it i don't you know i don't think i don't think it's particularly [bothersome] because in reality uh  
you it's like troy ounces in ounces of gold  
how many ounces of gold you know  
i was trying i was trying to figure up gold content on something  
it had has uh gold [plated] uh [header]  
and and they're trying to think of what's a troy ounce  
yeah  
now that makes you know  
well i mean and and then there's a metric ton  
and then there's a ton  
but what's a metric ton  
i don't know  
yeah  
and and then but then the medicine  
and and some of these other things  
and and the chemistry in those kinds of areas  
[milliliter]  
yeah  
and and so um but but when you go to order a drink um you know say they they i don't know it's uh  
i don't know  
and and but you know when you go to the store and and you're trying to figure you know well this box is is uh is is twelve ounces  
and and this one's uh uh three pounds um  
and you  
that's right  
and and i don't know  
i i think that i i think i think the federal government is going to more or less leave it alone  
i think they've got i think there are more pressing problems  
yes  
yeah  
but but are are the tools that uh  
if you're cutting  
are you talking about cutting equipment or tools for for set up  
huh  
so you've got thousands of dollars or so  
i mean you get a thousand dollars worth of tools  
yes  
but i was thinking about though that that when you actually get to the [milling] equipment though when it starts turning  
yeah  
but you when you when you simply [drilling] a hole i mean a real simple thing like gee  
i need a hole there  
yeah  
yeah  
and and what but the thing is then you've got to with screws  
and that's the other issue uh  
the pitch and  
well uh what what do you think about the metric system  
uh do you uh find it [useable]  
have you tried much with it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
to use you mean  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we  
well i've lived both in the united states and and in a country where they do use the metric system  
and uh so i've i've lived with pounds and inches and found it really quite easy to convert over  
um the secret seeming to me to be to not bother ever converting inches to centimeters and   pounds to uh uh kilograms  
and i think that's what hung people up the most is they went now wait a minute an inch is two point fifty four centimeters  
how on earth am i every going to do the math  
and the problem is that we tried to convert everything from inches to centimeters preserving basically the inches but expressing them as centimeters rather than saying no a centimeter is about the [width] of your thumbnail or whatever and you know and leaving it at that  
and uh you know a [kilogram] weighs about this much  
and get used to it from scratch  
cause i still can't convert back and forth from inches to centimeters  
but i'm perfectly comfortable using either  
and i think the real problem with this this weird conversion you see signs that say fifty five miles per hour and you know whatever it would be one hundred six kilometers per hour you know  
people you know  
it's hard to take it seriously  
and as long as both were given you basically just don't read the kilometers per hour  
you just say well look read the miles per hour one  
the other one must be for someone else  
uh i don't know  
i mean even britain has converted over  
and we inherited this mess from them  
and uh  
well i mean it's more our fault than theirs at this point because they they saw the light um  
i don't know why they um were more able than we were  
except i think that they probably just said well we're just going to start using the things now  
and you sort of have to force people to change since they don't want to  
that's true  
that's that's probably true  
and america does have a long history of sort of doing things our own way rather than adopting you know some other model  
i've never heard that one  
that's very nice  
oh so i'm all for the metric system and converting over  
and i think  
i guess my feeling is the way to do it is is to just start giving weights you know have a very brief transition period and then just start giving weights and kilometers er just as in kilometers and weights and kilograms and everything like that and uh just have people start using it rather than having people constantly trying to convert  
remember me getting a package of something that said one pound  
this is a package of dates mind you  
it's was presumably something you weigh fairly [precisely]  
it said one pound  
and then in parenthesis it said four hundred fifty four point six grams  
and as near as i could tell seeing that was basically anti metric propaganda  
cause anyone who would say well look i can either buy a pound of something at four hundred sixty four point six grams which of course they couldn't weigh it out accurately anyway um  
every time i see something like that i think well that's that's an anti metric argument  
you don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh oh that's what i was thinking by quick transition  
i didn't mean you know i didn't mean like sweden going over to right hand drive or anything you know  
at midnight tonight we all switch over or anything  
uh i believe so  
yeah  
and i think they did it overnight  
cause you know you can't do it gradually  
that's an example of something you can't do gradually  
yes  
it does  
a quantum leap from left to right hand drive  
and they  
but you know that must have taken uh  
that was something that had to be done quickly   you know because of external circumstances  
but they decided to do it to make themselves in [sync] with the rest of europe   or the rest of continental europe  
and you know   but that must have been tremendously difficult to [orchestrate]  
um so i i i i i think it's essential that it's done  
and i think the real trick is to avoid the you know  
a little more attention to human psychology  
and whereas people want round numbers  
and after all the whole reason to go over to metric is to have round numbers   so they don't deal with thirty seconds of an inch  
and so what the exact  
the thing that was best about metric was the thing that was most poorly represented  
really i think  
uh_huh  
i saw that  
i saw that the other day  
i don't drink soda pop  
but i saw a two liter soda pop bottle  
so yeah  
things like that are a good start  
and if you start expressing one liters and one kilograms and then the pounds come in the the you know the odd numbers   you know two point two pounds or something i think people will start getting a sense of gee the metric is the sensible one  
yes  
well get back to what you're doing  
and i'll do the same  
i enjoyed talking with you too  
okay  
bye bye  
well with an engineering   degree it's of course it's a whole lot easier  
because uh  
yeah  
if if somebody is totally unfamiliar with it uh human nature being what it is we don't like to change  
uh it just absolutely makes perfectly good sense to me because it's all decimal  
and it's so easy to convert from one set of units to another  
right  
that's right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
it's all their fault  
of course being part of the european community if everybody else did it they they were probably much more  
is much more necessary for them than for us  
there's an expression for that  
with eyes on the past backing confidently into the future  
right  
right  
yeah  
well uh i i don't think it'll it could ever happen with with a quick transition  
no  
i i think that would be the easiest way  
but human nature being such as it is   i would think it would take probably two or three years before people could completely cut the cord  
did they switch  
well that's true  
it it has to be kind of a [discreet] transaction  
interesting  
oh yes  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm sure  
exactly  
exactly  
well we do have the two liter soda pop bottles  
yeah  
right  
yes  
that's true  
well sure have enjoyed our talk  
okay  
god bless  
bye bye  
okay  
the topic was should the united states adopt the metric system and if so should uh  
and why didn't it work last time  
yeah  
well i i am too  
i wish uh it had started a long time ago is the problem because we're so wound up in the   in the system that we've got that you know trying to convert over  
and i guess what'd they try they tried what'd the call it soft conversion and hard conversion  
one of them is where you just take whatever's already standard  
and you give it some sort of a weird metric number like six point two eight seven instead of six millimeter  
i i don't know uh  
well don't most of them doesn't just about everything now have both metric and english  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i kind of remember back when gas prices started up you know pretty dramatically when they started getting toward a dollar a gallon range  
somebody had uh  
i believe it was exxon  
we were living in lubbock at the time  
they started marketing it in liters  
and it was only like twenty nine and thirty cents a liter  
so they could put this sign out front that said you know thirty nine cents a liter  
and nobody had any idea what a liter was  
so uh  
when we finally out that liters was about a quart there's about four liters in a gallon  
so you can figure out what you're actually paying for it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
the uh i think maybe there's where the problem came in you know  
we've tried to instead of learning  
it's kind of like learning a language you know  
when you learn one from the other you always end up in this conversion thing all the time  
so you  
it's almost like uh  
course this country isn't a [dictatorship]  
but you know it's like somebody said okay as of such and such a date you know anybody caught talking in the english you know   will be shot or something like that you know  
but uh  
yeah  
i read that what [uganda] and  
there's one or two others that just  
uh_huh  
yeah uh i   yeah i do too  
and one of the things that we've run into a problem  
course you're familiar with the t i drawing well with any drawing system   you end up with you end up with things in inches   in parts of inches you know half fourth you know this sort of thing  
and then you end up with a decimal where you start getting into mils and that sort of thing  
and then some of them are done in you know purely metric  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i can imagine  
the uh the one that uh uh  
have you ever lived in a country where they use metric  
i was with t i in el salvador for a while  
and i had to get used to you know purely metric system down there because they didn't understand anything else  
you know if you start talking about miles they'd look at you like what  
so i had a little bit of experience with it  
and also i noticed in canada they uh you drop a quarter fifty cents whatever in a coke machine up there  
and you get this funny looking coke you know  
it's in a can that's that's taller but not as big around  
you know i guess that's some  
it's not a liter  
it's like a half a liter or something like that  
it's a strange looking can  
but my daughter in law's from panama  
and she has they have had americans down there for so long you know that they're kind of into both systems  
but uh she gets real confused on [distances]  
and temperature is the big thing   the centigrade   for which she says [celsius]  
well i had kind of gotten used to centigrade temperature you know  
if it's between zero and ten it's cold  
and if it's ten and twenty it's not too bad  
if it's between twenty and thirty it's pretty warm  
if it's more than thirty it's just hotter than all get out  
so but uh the big problem is not having the uh the resolution between temperature you know between a hundred if you're talking about a hundred degrees or what thirty zero you know thirty four degrees whatever that is  
you know you don't get all the little differences  
you know the differences between seventy and seventy two or seventy five degrees isn't much  
but the difference thirty and thirty five degrees is quite a bit  
yeah  
five  
yeah  
something like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
though we call it the english system  
but i'm not sure what they do in england now  
they're they're on metric aren't they  
yeah  
except they've got a  
now okay we run into some problems once  
i remember they've got a nut and bolts system called wentworth  
and this thing was was even different than you know s a e standards and stuff  
so  
this this  
okay  
my dad bought one of these little nash [metropolitans] here a few years quite a few years back  
and the thing had a austin [heeley] type engine you know  
it was austin motors engine and running gear  
and the body was built by nash  
or who you know  
that was even before american motors  
but nash essentially in the u s somewhere  
and that thing had the [darndest] combination of metric and wentworth and uh s a e  
he ended up with about three sets of tools   in order to work on that fool thing  
because i think the wentworth and the s a e bolt sizes were the same  
but the threads were different  
and uh   it was a total mess  
and on my chevy van that's a couple of years old  
part of it's built in canada  
matter of fact the thing is i always say it's built off shore you know because it was assembled in canada  
the only thing that was in it was built in the u s was the uh [differential]  
and it was built in buffalo new york  
but it's got the hardest combination of uh metric  
and most of the body parts seem to be metric  
and most of the engine parts seem to be s a e  
so it's just crazy  
yeah  
i thought maybe they would convert to uh metric back when they went to the fifty five mile an hour speed limit because what is it   fifty six or fifty seven's a hundred uh a hundred kilometers  
and you know  
yeah  
you'd have  
hundreds on the sign looks lot better than fifty five  
you'd have people going you're right a hundred miles an hour  
and so i don't know  
i'd kind of  
and the other thing too is you know between here and el [paso's] what five hundred miles  
but it's almost eight hundred kilometers you know  
that'd sure seems like a long way  
yeah  
i guess that's it  
well they converted all the road signs to fifty five miles an hour you know  
they [could've] converted it to metric just about as easy  
yeah  
not all that common  
i know the only other place that i was ever at where they really had it mixed was was in panama where's a lot of the road signs and everything are in in miles per hour  
and some are in kilometers  
and you got to know where you are   because anything that was the old canal zone is going to be miles per hour  
how should they do it  
why didn't it work last time  
well i'm all for it  
yeah  
yeah  
they tried the  
yeah  
yeah  
direct conversion  
i think they just ought to you know start uh just go all the way on new products introduced or whatever you know start your packaging go to liters instead of quarts  
and you know people if they have to are going to learn to think that way  
they do  
but things are generally packaged in the english sized packages you know  
you buy a quart of milk  
and sure it has has the metric equivalent written on there  
but it still a quart  
but if they started putting it in liters liter of oil and you know liters of gasoline people are going to learn to think in metric  
as long as you can still buy a product in the english units that's how you're going to think of it  
it figures  
right  
that that's the problem  
right  
it's kind of hard for me to believe that this day and age  
i don't know  
when i was growing up we were talking metric system in school   i mean not not at first  
but by the time i was in fifth or sixth grade anyway  
i would expect people with any kind of buying power over the age you know under the age of thirty or so to have some idea what it is anyway  
a [liter's] about a quart  
yeah  
well thing is it's a global global market place these days  
and you know we're like what one of two backwards countries in the world as far as  
something  
i don't remember what the other one is  
but  
it's just time i think for for us to go over  
because all you end up doing is if you're in business or you're in any kind of international  
i don't you know  
i work for t i  
we're all around the world  
you have to   perform this conversion anyway  
and  
right  
mils and microns  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
i remember that stink came around in the design area a few years back when it was all overseas designs were in microns  
and ours were in mils  
and it got to you know  
somewhere down the line they went standardized  
they went microns  
but uh you just you know you end up with all kinds of problems with converting your designs  
so  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
about half a liter  
yeah  
i would have more problem   more problem with the temperature except that you know working in engineering we do everything in centigrade or [celsius]  
it's getting warm right  
yeah  
it's about  
is about twice as much what it works out to  
one point eight times as many   points  
yeah  
so i i think as long as people have a choice they're going to stick with the american way  
and until we have to have to learn to think that way we won't  
yeah  
for the most part i think so  
right  
right  
he just get one more  
oh that would be a mess  
right  
it just gets bad  
now you got to you got to have one and not mix them up  
because you're never going to get to one one system if you still got a got a mix  
and of course here that that would involve changing road signs all across the country you know miles per hour to kilometers per hour and the whole nine yards  
kind of hard to do gradually  
yeah  
hell you'd have people doing a hundred miles an hour  
yeah  
yeah  
but they'd need they'd seem to be [ticking] off faster too  
every road sign you come to is like well i don't know it that far  
yeah  
i think they  
you got the problem with all your cars are still  
yeah  
you still got cars on the road that don't have both  
at that time anyway that was still when things were  
the metric system was still not  
you know now cars they have both  
sooner or later they'll start putting the miles on the inside and the kilometers in big numbers so people start thinking that way  
yeah  
okay  
do you uh think we should go metric  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that the i think what  
i mean i don't know what happened last time  
i remember they tried it in the seventies at one point or something  
and  
yeah  
me too  
right  
and and i don't quite know why it failed  
um i would bet the push i it i bet the push just wasn't big enough  
you know they didn't sort of encourage i mean businesses and things to use it  
so you know what what i think they'd have to do would be to have both things on there for a while and then and then start phasing things out  
so  
yeah  
right  
i was just thinking   two liter bottles are what you buy and one liter bottles  
you don't buy quarts and gallons anymore of soda  
right  
and and and even though the car says miles and kilometers  
you don't say  
i went   a hundred kilometers   you know  
yeah  
i would i would be total loss  
i think i think though if there were some you know sort of government incentive program or something   people would begin to switch over you know  
and i think there would be the hard core older people who would get really pissed  
and pardon my expression there but uh   who would get really you know upset and start to complain and get all cranky and stuff  
but i think in the end it would make life a lot easier for   people coming up  
yeah  
right  
well what i think i think the difference between now and then might be this is just a might is we were the first generation that was in elementary school  
and if they kept it up  
so let's say imagine they had kept going  
you'd have you know two or three more generations that all now are are familiar with the metric system  
not like could use it comfortably right now  
but i could convert you know  
i could carry around a little conversion card or something  
and   i could handle it for a while and then and then eventually i'd learn  
and i think that before it was just you know just a bunch of little kids using it  
and now i think there are enough people  
you know sort of as we get older i think others that will bring more generations in on it eventually they'll be able to make the switch  
and we're not going to start going crazy and yelling and saying   what are you crazy we can't understand you  
we'll say oh it's a pain in the neck  
but it's for the better  
and we'll sort of deal with it i think  
i don't know  
i i i would hope it would uh  
it seems like it's a reasonable system  
i mean everything seems to be based on the same thing  
right  
centimeters  
yeah  
but i wonder if if  
but yeah  
right  
yeah  
but i wonder if that's even something that you know they they have to change immediately  
they could just you know sort of phase that in  
so start you know from now  
like from now on all licenses would have that   rather than going back and changing everything you know all new licenses as of nineteen ninety two would have it or something  
that's right  
i know the  
and oh yeah  
i know though at the uh at the amusement parks they say if you're under forty two   inches or something   you can't walk in here  
you have to be under  
well i guess what what i bet what they do in that case they uh  
see what some of them is like you know they say if you're not taller than this line  
that's right  
it would be a neat case where like where kids taught the parents i think you know  
but i don't know  
england is not  
oh  
yeah  
but i mean  
but but virtually the rest of the world is  
i mean it seems like   like like like sort of stupid  
i mean we are of course we are americans  
and we're supposed to be you know  
that's right  
and and now we're backwards  
no  
i i i would think i mean a a a base ten system as compared to a base twelve system   makes a lot more sense  
no  
actually no  
um let's see  
it's  
i don't know  
oh yeah  
i i always forget  
i don't even know how many ounces are in a pound  
i just sort of make it up  
right  
those those wouldn't be a problem  
let's see  
how many cups equal that  
i i have no idea  
i just uh  
i know things like you know a pint is a pound the world around or something  
that's all i know  
i i learned that because uh a friend of mine  
i i had two friends  
and i had more friends than that  
but two friends of mine in college  
i had a lot more than two  
i promise  
um we opened a jelly bean business  
and we sold jelly beans  
and we had uh no idea how many you know  
we we didn't we didn't bother buying a scale  
we'd go out and just buy you know five pound bags of sixteen different [flavors] put it in plastic shoe boxes and and and then sell them for x amount per pound or quarter pound or something  
and we we didn't bother buying a scale  
and one of my friends was a physics one of these guys was a physics major  
and he said well just remember a pint is a pound the world around  
and he got the measuring cup and just measured i think a cup or two cup whatever is a pint  
gee i think   i think he the calculation at home  
and it turns out that he was actually pretty close  
if anything we were actually in favor of the consumer  
so so we were giving them a little too much  
but that was our general tendency anyway  
yeah  
well we were you know we were in  
it was it was almost like we did it for the hell of it in school  
we really didn't   make you know  
i think we were only making seventy five dollars each profit at the end of the year   you know after after an entire semester  
but we had a hell of a lot of fun doing it  
yeah  
we we we tended to eat a lot  
and our friends would just sort of walk by and just put their hands in it  
and we had another friend um the physics major again he wasn't   he wasn't aware of jelly bean [physiology] i guess  
and he got into a snowball fight   with the jelly beans nearby  
and he just  
and and some snow fell into one of the cartons  
so he brought them into the bathroom to wash them off  
and basically what we had sort of non coated beans at that point  
uh it's just uh it's just the the same  
they're like an outer [coating]  
and there's just sort of this stuff you see you know it's sort of like glorified sugar  
i don't know  
but when you rinse them off all you get is uh is uh the [coating]  
well i i oh i don't know  
it's kind of a tricky question because i think it's it's a practical system  
obviously if it's all compatible and it you know tens  
and things make sense  
um it's it's a switch  
the problem would just be the switch over  
right  
that's when i was in the elementary school years  
and we all   we all learned that metric  
and they were ready  
we were going to be metric  
and  
right  
so i think that's what they did at first   was that they had metric  
and and i mean and there's things that we've gone metric  
we have metric cola now  
you can buy that  
and you can  
so that you know so that we have little things that are metric  
but no one talks about you know uh  
you buy nine by twelve frames  
you don't buy centimeter length frames   and cooking pans  
uh_huh  
right  
fifty nine kilometers per gallon  
yeah  
that's  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it really would  
it's i i it's because i think they had a good try there when they started with us in the elementary schools trying to you know get that in our minds so that we could i mean  
because i think our generation could make a change  
it would be difficult  
but it would not be as difficult for people say fifty years old now who are have never been exposed to the metric system other than you know buying a two liter coke  
that's  
right  
right  
right  
right  
that's true  
that makes sense  
well i was trying to think of what kind of things you'd have to change  
and you'd have to change your height on your driver's license  
when you wouldn't be five foot eight anymore uh you'd be a hundred and seventy centimeters  
and then you'd be lighter in kilograms than you were in   in pounds  
so all the [dieters] would be happy  
i only weigh sixteen today  
that's  
right  
and they'd have to change that little ruler that's on the door of the seven eleven that   tells you how tall the [robbers] are when they   to hold it up  
right  
right  
this line which is seventy three centimeters  
just so you'll know  
but that would be good that i don't know  
right  
because isn't it pretty much everywhere in the world  
i know england is not metric  
i   i don't think they are because our um our measurements started in england  
all that began back there  
and i think they're the only part of the continent that hasn't changed over to metric  
right  
we're the trend [setters] in the world  
i don't know why we   we haven't changed to the sensible system  
i don't know  
right  
well and it's not even base twelve for everything  
is it  
it  
well pounds  
i don't even know what that  
see and i don't understand liquid ounces and fluid ounces  
it's  
i mean i don't know that i have that much concrete knowledge in the current measuring system that would   prevent me from  
it's not like it's really [entrenched] other you know  
a lot of stuff  
right  
i don't   i didn't even know that  
well that's good  
oh  
right  
right  
did you ever check it to see if it really was   a pint  
um  
right  
well that's  
you all are nice business  
right  
right  
probably ate all your merchandise too  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
it's a little problem  
what's inside the jelly bean  
uh-oh  
for n i s t the national institute of standards and technology  
i suppose so  
let me push the button  
okay uh  
i guess i'm supposed to be all for switching to the metric system  
but uh i sense that it's not going to happen anytime soon  
uh_huh  
you're now in what  
acoustics uh  
well i guess that is the policy  
but it's been the policy for a long time  
and nothing ever happens  
uh i suppose things some things well happen slowly simply by having it taught in the schools more to the extent that that's happening having a new generation come up that's more used to it  
they have to for international trade  
but i guess it's it's easier to switch back and forth than it used to be uh because of of uh of computers coming into everything  
everyone wants a wants a conversion of that before kind of recognizing it as a as as as as a concept to hold in mind  
uh i i i don't see that it it it can change it very quickly  
i mean we're not the kind of society that that uh that something can be [posed] upon uh by government will  
uh the the the public is just very conservative that way in [refusing] to change measurement systems uh money dollar coins anything like that  
and and and it it obviously makes no sense that we're practically alone in the world in in using the old system  
well i mean i think people like you are relatively rare who are coming up against this problem every day  
uh i mean there are things you could do  
uh we have signs up on the n i s t campus here speed limit twenty five miles per hour forty kilometers per hour  
uh but that hasn't been adopted very widely  
but i mean and no one will will go a step further to remove the english signs  
uh yeah  
or you have highway signs saying speed limit uh eighty eighty five whatever would be the appropriate number  
hundred car is going sixty two  
yeah  
so it would be more like uh like ninety i guess  
car is going fifty five  
uh you suddenly have a have a even worse problem with speeding than we do now  
do do do you know where you are  
do the schools emphasize the metric system  
no  
i i i meant i meant down like in the elementary schools  
i mean i think  
yeah  
i mean i think my children learned the metric system  
but it doesn't get get emphasized over the other  
oh okay  
so it's right up your alley then  
all right  
yeah  
i don't think it's going to happen either  
but i wish it were  
because i'm a i got my bachelor's in mechanical engineering  
i'm at grad school now in acoustics  
and all we do is metric stuff  
acoustics  
yeah  
so everything's metric  
and then you go to read some order book or something  
and it's all confusing  
so i don't understand as much  
so i think we should get one adopted permanently  
yeah  
a lot of industry out there is doing metric stuff because they have to  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't think switching back and forth is that big a deal  
i think people need to understand more like what a meter is instead of how many feet in a meter or something just get used to using all the terms  
because someone says a [kilogram]  
no one knows what that is  
yeah  
yeah  
no one seems to be adopting it  
metric system no one's very uh no one wants it at all seems like  
yeah  
yeah  
i it's pretty tough when you get everything confused though  
i think two systems is worse than one though  
because i know we do a lot of problems and things  
and they're half english and half metric  
and you you make more mistakes doing all the [conversions] than you would doing the problems  
just get one  
i prefer metric  
but even if it's english they should just have one  
yeah  
yeah  
i think so  
your your average guy jogging down the highway wants to know how many miles it is to his destination  
yeah  
yeah  
they have some of those in ohio  
there's this one [sign's] kind of funny  
it says uh metric signs next hundred miles  
yeah  
that would force everybody to use it or to quit selling tape measures in inches  
yeah  
i guess a hundred is sixty two  
yeah  
you have a bunch of people trying to do ninety  
yeah  
in the engineering they all do pretty much  
oh in the elementary schools  
i don't know  
i wouldn't think so  
i remember   a ways back we did like [conversions]  
but we never actually went out and measured anything or did anything on one system  
yeah  
they learn how many centimeters are in an inch  
and that's about it  
i think my daughter talked to somebody in carolina
what is that is it a school up there that uh
oh great great
that's wonderful
yeah
is that right
yeah
we uh we thought the opposite we thought well it's going to be t i
people and i think they went to customers you know people that use t i computers and everything which is fine
uh_huh
actually they don't talk about much uh of what it's for
but my wife keeps keeps ask asking me
and i'm saying well your computer is eventually going to just answer your voice you know
they're they're
of course it's very obvious for people with handicaps but in general i guess it would be faster than typing and everything
so
oh yeah
it's it's uh around the corner
right
well i mean it's so uh t i's uh been the pioneer on a little advertising for t i
not that i know that much about the uh voice synthesis
but they've been working on it for years and years you know
they have the speak and spell and all of that
of course
but they're they're going to take it much further
and i guess in aircraft and all that a lot of it is going to be like you talk to the computer like two thousand and one or two thousand and ten
when you talk
to the computer
hal right
that was great
well what do you think about the metric system you
well what do you do out there
are you a professor you say
okay
yeah
well we're not going to have much to fight over because i do too
uh being an engineer most general motors have pretty much
and i'm not too sure about the rest of the cars
i'm sure all the japanese cars
i'm somewhat of a car buff almost all of it is metric
uh_huh
right
right
well i i work on g m cars only
and i haven't noticed that that much usually the metrics will fit they're so close
there's an overlap uh you know there's something funny that i haven't really resolved with metric
i've got to really go to the store and see if it's true
i can't remember the size
i think it's uh eighteen or something like that
i have a set of metric
and and the old [wrenches] too
and i think that's an exact size of the three quarters and they don't make it in metric
they just skip over it
and it
right
and i was thinking i've got to get an eighteen
because i don't i don't like i'm so used to when i'm grabbing tools for my car to grab for the number you know because i don't even bother with the unless i'm working on a bumper or something
but the engine parts and all are all metric you know
i haven't noticed
it mostly being
yeah
well i mean well on general motors cars
it was all metric
i use my metrics essentially when i work on the cars i don't
well i guess uh in changing the oil i guess that's uh i don't even know a nine [sixteenths] or something like that
i don't even remember
uh
but i was thinking i just had a cheap set of metrics in fact uh i thought well i guess either
i lost the eighteen
and then i i started to see it in stores and i noticed that the cheaper sets again i'm calling it cheaper sets [minus] the eighteen i thought well i've got to go to an expensive place go to sears and get [craftsman] tools there and see if i can't get that eighteen i want a full set you know
i still haven't checked out to see if they do make the eighteen
i i'm sure they do
well i guess they do
i don't know why they wouldn't
oh you haven't really
i just thought it was my set so i just didn't have a a good quality set you know
uh
i think it's what number did i just say eighteen something that is the same as a three quarter and it that i i'd rather have it all metric
right
uh texas instruments makes equipment for the semiconductor business you know we make not a lot of
but we make we were making a lot of our own manufacturing equipment and i bet they have a lot of metrics there
i think that uh the only emotional part might be in miles you know mile signs
but that's that could be last anyway maybe pick a year two thousand say okay we'll slowly change
but i think
right
right
well i think the [speedometers] don't
the cars have them both now am i
not mistaken i i i look at mine
i don't even know i read it
upper and lower yeah
right
oh no
i don't think so either
i don't even know how many businesses are actually doing it without an order i'm not too sure that the government needs to order it although i guess they would have to in again mileage signs
but uh it
yeah
yeah
right
uh_huh
oh yeah
i think that i i guess it was uh five years ago or more than when they it failed
and i guess people just got tired of talking about it
i'm not too sure i guess there was no one really pushing it
and no one saying that it was going to mean business to us
i think nowadays we all would say who are in industry and everything
we'd say hey this means business we ought to
uh make everything metric
and i just
and i see
no problem with it at all
uh
uh_huh
right
yeah
right
well i i i'm ready to convert i i we probably all thought it was strange you know again five years ago
but i don't think there's that many people with reservations anymore
i don't know if uh
sure
right
in fact they said it failed and then i guess it has failed but i in in general
there was still a lot of people that i i i'm not sure it's a total failure because so much has converted you know
and i'm not too sure that it's actually not a success more than a failure you know i don't know what percent has actually converted uh_huh
oh you're absolutely right
you that that's a pet of mine too
i just wish we all and us down here in texas
of course should all speak spanish
we should have six and eight years automatically of spanish
and i i push my daughters
i've got two daughters
and uh one is taking latin
and one has taken spanish but not enough of it
and uh i think we we down here
especially should speak
and california new mexico and all that really
right
right
oh yeah
yeah
they're working they're out they're studying harder
and they're working harder
uh_huh
yeah
what are you taking in school
by the way you say you're in school
yeah
oh well you know my wife's uh a well i have a daughter in college you know
and uh who's got down at u t
university of texas
i mean
and my wife also has gone back for a teaching and english and english as a second language uh which is you know just teaching kids that are have have their native language and not english
and so she's going back for that
and so i i i've got three people
i'm supporting in in school now
and i guess i ought to go back myself
i'm getting enthusiastic because they they're having so much fun you know
oh that's great
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
sure politics and everything
i'm an engineer and even when i was going through engineering school halfway through they said up don't need any more engineers
we've got too many they go through this phase all the time
but i think you still should do what you want
because uh if you're good at whatever you are
well uh i i was just talking to my dad about that just uh a couple of weeks ago
and i think i think it would be great that we went to it
and uh the one thing though that i think we should do if we go to the metric system
then we should do away with the other system
and and have only the metric system
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well that's true
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's true
you are right
you're right
there's no we're losing we are losing our culture
of our area
sure
yeah
yeah
well i uh i work in a hospital
and of course that's all we use
and and every thing we do is metric you know
and uh you know weights is in kilograms and uh you know whatever whatever happens to be the thing that we are measuring it's in metric
and uh
yeah
yeah
right
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
sure
right
well uh uh what one of the things that really i really think that would be sort of weird is is the uh cars the miles per hour instead of having not having [kilo] kilometers per hour
cause it it's hard to imagine you know i well i think the problem with us our generation is that nobody even if we did go all the way to the metric system that we are still going to think in terms of how it relates to the other system you know
no matter what
that's right
that's right
because it's hard to
it's just like uh another language
i guess
and when you learn another language
uh i guess what you have to do is try to think in that language
and not think in terms of [translating] it to english you know
but
yeah
yeah
i think so too
and i think that uh that it was pretty much optional wasn't it at the time
and and uh
yeah
that's right
see
that's why i think it is
i think they used both systems and everybody as long as they had inches
they could just [transpose] back and forth
and it made it difficult for everybody thought well this is too much trouble
but uh of course if you didn't have anything available
but metric
i think it would be a little easier on you you know
that's right
that's right
you you would just quit thinking you wouldn't worry about how many ounces is this
you would just say well how many how many uh grams is it you know
yeah
sure
yeah
yeah
and it's uh like weight you know i weigh about a hundred and sixty five and that's uh somewhere in the neighborhood of seventy something kilograms you know
and it's hard to imagine well only seventy something you feel like you don't weigh much you know
but i guess if that's the only thing you knew well you would just know
well i weigh seventy something kilograms and that's it you know
well that's true
yeah
i understand that it's that's true
that's very true
that's very true
yeah
that's right
it's funny that uh i guess all that started in england i guess
i bet you are
i bet you are
i don't know
you know when i was in uh when i was in high school several years ago
you know we did probably two two or three weeks on the subject you know and tried to teach you the whole thing in two or three weeks
and of course when you're that age you really don't care anyway
and i didn't get into it very much
but then i took a just a basic math class a couple of semesters ago
and we uh we were pretty heavily into the metric system and and before we started i just thought oh no
i don't want to do this you know this is just going to be so hard
and once i really realized how easy it was
uh it was wonderful
i mean it was just incredible how much simpler it is than what you know i guess we just all have this mind set that
oh this is so hard
and we can't do this
and it's really not hard
i was surprised at how very easy it was i think most people just uh you know automatically have their minds set against it
and don't give it a chance
you know
so
oh sure
exactly
exactly
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
it just don't work
i bet
i bet
right
right
well you know i think that the that the only way that we are ever going to get this country switched over to metrics is just to start other with with the kids right now
you know you you you're going to have to start with the kids who are in that are in when school and you're going to have to teach it
well not like i was in school and do two weeks on it in a math class and that's all you ever hear about it you know they're going to have to start with the little ones
and teach it right now and then when you know those little ones are our age you know that's what they're going to know
and that's what they're going to use there's no way you're going to get you know most of the united states adult population to automatically [relearn] and switch
you know it's just not going to happen that way
but i do think if they would start with the kids now at you know in you know twenty years from now we could be switched over you know
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i agree
yeah
very good idea
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i think i think it's going to take that
but i you know i i think it's going to take a lot more than that too you know it's going to take it's going to take this education with with our kids
i really believe that
but you know we we knew that we weren't going to have to ever use it again we knew we were going to have two or three weeks of it in math class
so why take the time to really learn it you know i mean you would you know learn enough to get by on the test
and then you forgot about it because you knew you were never going to see it again in the rest of your years of school you know and and that that's not the way to convert over
you're going to have these kids teaching it [dually] even you know teaching both systems which is a lot
i know a lot more for the teachers to have to teach
but that's the only way they're going to get switched over you know
oh yes
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's true too
that's true
buy a whole knew metric set yeah
well i think you know it's something that's going to take quite some time to happen
but i i still don't think that they're doing all that it's going to take to make it happen
you know it's going to happen slowly no matter what
but there's going to have to be a lot more education involved than there is right now
to get it to to get it to switch over
oh yeah
yeah
uh_huh
even they have switched yeah
so yeah
we're not uh we're not necessarily cutting edge in everything are we
just like we think we are so well i think eventually it will happen
you know it's just going to take it's just going to take a lot of education and a lot of time and like i said i was just totally amazed at how at how very easy it was
you know i i just couldn't you know i just when i going into it
i just had this block and i went there's just no way i'm going to be able to learn this
and when i sat down and really said okay just you know forget your old prejudices and really look at it you know and once you look at
it's so really simple you know you
there's really nothing to memorize there's nothing to learn it just all works the same you know you just you know [transform] that little you know dot from one place one way to the other you know
and that's about all you have to do
so anyway
i think it will happen eventually
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
well you know i think uh i think it's going to happen
i don't know
i don't know what else i could suggest to them you know if they ask me what should we do
i don't know i wouldn't know what else to suggest to them just education start with these little kids you know
and like you said you know start making it practice you know start showing all the street signs and all the of course i think all the cars are manufactured that way they aren't they aren't all of them most of the new ones
i'm seeing
are are made with miles per hour and kilometers on them
oh really
right
uh_huh
right
is there really huh
well that's interesting
yeah
well
oh that's interesting too
i had never seen that
yeah
you know you look at most of the you know like the bank clocks and stuff like that it tells you you know [fahrenheit] and centigrade and it's going take those kinds of things you know so sure you know getting us all accustomed to seeing both you know
but most people don't pay any attention you know it's going to take some education right along with it
most people don't know what that means you know
so
that's right
because that's what they're familiar with
right
that's going to be hard to do
it's going to be very hard to do
you know you you know i'm so used to saying oh my babies got a hundred and three degree fever and you know just say it's thirty nine is not just going to sound very bad
that's right
that's right
your baby's still alive with
so yeah
it's going to take a changing lot of our old prejudices and you know just making up our minds that
yes
we are going to do this
and we're just going to forgot this old way
and we're just going to do it
you know
and i don't think the older generation is probably ready to do that you know
well um you know i i agree with the the ease in the use of it
and uh the
it certainly it's so much easier to do your do [computations] [calculations] to measure things with it to in every every aspect of it is simpler except there is one big [stumbling] block in it
and in the united states and that is all of the tool and die equipment in this country that has been here for the last hundred years is in the english system
and tool and die equipment doesn't wear out too often
so i think that's the the one place where uh they will have a hard time uh getting people to change
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
exactly
right
right
i uh lived in brazil for four years from when i was seven to eleven years old
and so by the time i got into high school and took some physics there
and then into college
um where i was a physics major in college
so i'm more than uh familiar with the metric system
and uh but i think that initial period you know from way made it familiar for me
so i wasn't afraid of the metric system and and and i knew how much it made sense
and how much easier
it was to do things that way
so i i it's too bad that more americans can't don't have the opportunity to to really use it to to get to a point where it it's something other than something that causes them fear and confusion because if you just the in the initial stages of anything no matter even if it is something that ultimately will be simpler are going to be confusing
and it's getting over that [hurdle] that will finally get us into it
if we ever get into it
right
right
okay
yep
right
right
right
that may be true also i don't know [chemists] seem to
okay
no
i mean
can you imagine how ridiculous
it would be to try to do i mean it boggles the mind to try to think to do all the chemistry or physics in the english system at this point
although gosh all those
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
it's interesting in the in though the work i'm doing i'm uh the kind of things i do is manage uh research and development contracts
and we do everything from basic research all the way through uh we have a couple of systems that are actually um places where they're producing a product
and what i've noticed is that the places where they're kind of doing fuzzy thinking and uh doing the initial uh development of an idea use the metric system
and they talk in terms of metric uh uh units in turn around the people however that have the engineers that are actually producing a product do most of their carry [conduct] most of their discussion in terms of the english units which i i find it's interesting that
it's like the guys that are still doing the work that are actually making the stuff are using the english system
but the ones that come up with the they're doing these [theoretical] analysis and the number [crunching] um are doing it in terms of the metric system
i i
it kind of seems strange
but [sao] [paulo] uh_huh
no kidding
uh and do you fly into [camgonias] or the other one down there down south
yeah
okay
the international yeah
uh_huh
sure
sure
uh the air force academy
uh i'm one of those
no
no
i'm i'm still in the
i'm still a second lieutenant i just graduated in eighty nine
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
right
oh yeah
right
well the whole
yeah
i don't
or the whole number system is digital so how can you have uh
or it's it's base ten rather and so how can you have how can you have these
this is archie  
have you seen dancing with wolves  
have you ever lived in that part of the country  
have you ever visited it  
i think it was the black hills of south dakota  
well i lived in omaha for five   winters  
and that rolling kind of uh  
yeah  
is is fairly  
the thing that i thought was interesting was that the critics  
apparently it's going to win everything  
uh and i had been told you know you wouldn't notice that it was three hours long and all this   kind of  
well the interesting thing was is i had heard that  
and i i i tend to i think [overreact] occasionally when somebody tells me it's that great  
and and   it was the thing is it was it was a good story  
and and and i guess that's what i really like  
although i must admit i did look at my watch after about an hour  
yeah  
no  
i've heard i've heard that's really great though  
no  
you must really keep up  
well isn't isn't sleeping with the enemy isn't that a  
is it is it a terror movie  
or is it just suspenseful  
do you do you listen to gary [cogill]  
is uh  
do you know who he is  
he's a the movie [critic]  
um oh you've oh  
okay  
he's a movie [critic] on channel eight in dallas  
and he does uh he has a talk show on the k l i f  
anyway it's on from seven to nine or something  
and and and people call in  
and it's if you keep up with movies it's kind of interesting  
there's a certain a mount of dribble that they do  
they've got uh they've got a couple of kids ten or twelve years old  
and they call in  
and they review movies  
but it's uh  
he anyway he  
it's interesting  
you listen to him  
and then you you go watch the movie  
in fact they had people had just seen  
i was listening sunday night a little bit when   i was going to pick up my daughter  
but anyway it was uh the  
it it's interesting though  
the the difficulty with with dancing with wolves is that when you make a movie like that and you produce it and then you star in it uh the question is did he did he really know it was going to be good  
or did he just do it  
do you know who the guy was that was playing the uh the the wagon driver  
a little piece of [trivia]  
you know the guy when he first headed out from the army post  
he he plays on murphy brown  
yes  
he's   he's [eldon] her [housepainter]  
can you   believe that  
that's that's one of those interesting pieces of [trivia] that somebody said did you notice that  
i thought no it's really funny  
but i thought it it  
you think back  
and yeah  
it was him but with a   you know with the beard and all that stuff  
i mean it's uh  
yeah  
real [scruffy] looking  
and it it was really funny it's uh that that he winds up playing in the movie  
but i thought it's good that you know  
it was a lot of fun  
i don't know how long this conversation is supposed to go  
but we're at about five minutes  
i should think we've done enough  
well i don't know  
why do we end this thing  
i think it just says hang up  
why don't we do that  
good bye sharon  
hi archie  
i'm sharon  
yeah  
i've seen that  
that's uh that was a really good movie  
probably one of the best things about it was the scenery  
and uh i thought the story was pretty good too  
i i think kevin costner did a really good job with it  
no  
i haven't  
um i've visited the wyoming area  
i'm not sure exactly where dances with wolves was filmed  
could be  
i i haven't been to south dakota  
have have you been up to that  
oh  
okay  
terrain  
really  
that's true  
i agree with that  
um i i noticed yesterday in the paper something said that it  
i think it's been [nominated] for twelve awards  
and and all the critics initially said that you know it wouldn't go anywhere that it was just going to be a [dud]  
so it it has surprised everybody  
uh_huh  
right  
did you  
have you seen sleeping with the enemy  
you have to go see that one  
and how about silence of the lamb  
go  
i do  
i go every weekend  
i i uh  
those are two definite must see movies i think  
it's suspenseful  
i don't think it's very  
i mean there's not really any uh blood and guts in it or anything like that  
it's it's more suspense  
um the other one silence of the lambs is kind of a a gory movie if if somebody's not into that kind of stuff  
it's it's pretty graphic at points  
but uh i think they're both excellent movies  
no huh_uh  
yeah  
somebody in south carolina told me about him  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
i think that i think he really  
his heart was in it  
but i i don't think he really knew it was going to be as big as it was  
i think it was something that he really wanted to do  
he wanted to direct it  
he wanted to to star in it  
you know he he enjoyed the story line  
and i think he just really he really wanted it  
and whether it whether it won all kinds of awards or whether it just was okay at the box office i think he would have been happy  
because i think that i think he did a good job  
and and the self satisfaction he got out of it is much greater than any awards that they can give him  
um  
yeah  
who  
no  
i don't know who that guy is  
oh he does  
as a [recurring] character every week  
oh  
no  
now see i'd i'd a never put those two together  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
real [scruffy] looking  
yeah  
you think so  
i mean i haven't been watching my watch  
um i guess  
yeah  
does it usually cut off  
is that what   it does  
it used to   it used to just automatically cut off  
but it says when the conversation is over just say your good [byes] and hang up  
so   i i guess so  
okay  
good talking to you archie  
yes  
oh how awful  
i wonder how [truthful] all of that was or whether there was fiction  
yeah  
well they keep it rather [secretive]  
yes  
well the most recent movie i saw uh i'm afraid was uh  
well two two of them actually  
uh the rain man was one  
wasn't that fabulous  
and   and driving miss daisy  
oh you need to see that  
that is the most heart [rendering] story of relationships between two people   two [diametrically] opposed people from the stand point that one was jewish and one was black  
and this all took place in the south  
and uh normally never the [twain] shall meet  
yes  
right  
and um uh it it really was a fantastic movie  
the acting was phenomenal  
oh yes  
[jessica] [tandy] won best actress  
and uh  
yes  
it did  
yes  
it did  
just as rain man uh with dustin hoffman   uh that that was tremendous and tom cruise  
yes  
uh-oh that was that was uh what the much of the hype was that tom cruise learned so much from dustin hoffman  
yeah  
and a good bit of that was filmed right in cincinnati   which is just forty five miles from from where i am where i actually live in a suburb of dayton  
oh we do have kmart here  
you better believe it  
isn't there a kmart everywhere  
yes  
right  
right  
yeah  
oh yes  
yes  
yes  
well you know there are people uh referred to as [savants] also   uh who can do most phenomenal things  
and everyone feels they are totally retarded  
that's right  
it's amazing  
yes  
yes  
and the  
right  
well the [warmth] that developed between them  
and again it i think was a picture of relationships  
again the relationship uh between the two uh that uh never would have occurred uh by accident  
did you  
yes  
uh_huh  
well that's tremendous  
that it's good because it does make you think about your own family  
and see it did bring out a lot of thoughts between you and your brother  
uh_huh  
well he at least saw it one time  
just think of what a phenomenal actor dustin hoffman is  
he will do that to research it and to be able to [mimic] a person uh uh with the kinds of problems that he had  
yes  
well i'm sure everybody that saw it was believing it right along with them  
well it's just uh been delightful talking with you  
absolutely  
i'm ready for it  
but they're predicting some more snow for our direction  
take care now  
bye bye  
okay mary  
um the uh the latest one i've seen uh had to do with a uh uh the uh basically a [manhunt] um  
and it was uh it was called [manhunter] actually  
uh the uh the guy uh apparently had a a mental [disfunction] in which he needed to go out and just [slay] people uh just uh kill them with with as much blood and and guts as possible  
it was true it was truly awful  
it was not one that i picked  
but uh uh it it did show some some uh some interesting things about the f b i  
because they were the the uh the characters trying trying to get him were f b i people  
and uh uh of the of the few good things that were in it it did show uh a lot about the f b i about the training and and how they go through training and how they try to to develop uh uh a mental picture of who they're looking for before they go out and do it and all the different ways they go about doing that  
and it was uh uh it was pretty telling about the the the f b i and their procedures  
yeah  
i i imagine a lot of it had to be [fictional] just to keep the f b i uh going i guess  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that was great one  
oh i loved it  
you know i haven't seen that one yet  
and i need to go see it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh my  
you bet especially in the south  
well as it as i recall it got some academy awards didn't it  
oh yeah  
that's right  
it it might have one best picture too  
yeah  
that was  
yeah  
i i think it was more a lesson for tom cruise than anything else in terms of uh of how to act from dustin hoffman  
but uh  
yeah  
it must have been great just being with him on on a daily basis and seeing how he [prepares] for his for his lines and all that stuff  
oh  
is is the kmart there  
that was that was so funny  
he had to  
or was it kmart  
he had to buy his underwear at kmart  
that was hilarious  
the the i guess the the first the first uh scene in that movie that really got my attention uh concerning the the disease and all that was when he uh dropped the the uh the toothpicks  
and he was able to count the number of toothpicks just by a mental image  
unbelievable  
yeah  
yeah  
because that's the way they they might seem [outwardly]  
but boy there's a lots going on in there  
yeah  
yeah  
and i the the i think the the best thing about rainman was the uh the way that they put together the the real [awfulness] of the of the of the disease   only  
an and then they balanced it with the [wonderfulness] of it you know  
and and and you need to to work with it uh you know certainly on on a daily basis but then then again work with it toward a good end   not not toward winning in las vegas for example  
yeah  
right  
right  
i was uh i was so impressed with that movie  
i saw it three times  
i can i can tell you oh so much about that movie just because it it really rang uh rang a lot of my uh my personal background  
i i have a a brother myself that's that's older  
and uh he's not you know  
nothing nothing of course serious is wrong with him  
but uh but we have gone through these these [lapses] of of a relationship   somewhat sometimes  
and then you know uh for for for no real you know direct reason i guess uh we we get into uh uh a really good relationship for a while and then you know back and forth  
so i i was really able to to relate to the the relationship aspect of the movie between the brothers  
that was neat  
yeah  
a lot  
uh_huh  
no question  
he the he was he's one of these guys though that doesn't really like to go see movies like that  
he likes the bang them up and shoot them up things  
and and uh it it was like pulling teeth to go get him to to see it  
but uh-oh boy he was uh uh he he gave the the best response that i've heard him give of this type of movie for rain man  
i mean he certainly didn't  
he only saw it one time  
and he didn't go back for more  
but uh he he said he enjoyed it  
and and  
yeah  
yeah  
and and he really  
i don't know  
he he's kind of a dustin hoffman fan anyway  
but he but before he saw the movie he was like disappointed that dustin hoffman would do this  
i'm like oh come on  
yeah  
and to make it believable  
i mean i was i was believing it  
i don't know about any body else  
but i was it was great  
he did great  
yeah  
yeah  
you take care up there  
and uh let's hear it for the summertime  
no  
oh no  
oh well take care  
bye bye  
uh the last movie that i saw  
i i don't go to that many  
so i'll just have to talk about the ones that i went to see  
but   uh it was awakenings with uh robin williams and uh peter deniro  
have you seen it  
it is  
i just have to take my hat off to peter deniro  
he is one of the best actors i've ever seen  
it's  
there's a point where  
the uh the show is about these uh [catatonic] type people that  
this doctor [discovers] a drug that brings them back to the the living more or less  
but it wears off  
and the way it wears off is he goes through all these [spastic] you know uh  
it starts off with like a [tic]  
and then it gets to where he can't you know control his movements at all  
and it was just so realistic  
the way you know you have to just keep reminding yourself that he's an actor  
no  
it was very serious very  
he's good  
he's he's talented  
boy he is  
i know  
me too  
but uh well what was that show um uh  
i want to say [garfield]  
but that wasn't it  
yeah  
the world according to garp  
he wasn't always funny in that show was he  
i did too  
that's why i was thinking it couldn't be just a totally funny part  
yeah  
right  
well what have you seen  
oh i saw it  
yes  
the whole way  
where did you cry  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i cried when the horse got killed and when the wolf got killed  
oh  
when he was riding back to the settlement and they shot his horse out from under him  
and then he uh the next day he looked out there and saw those [buzzards] you know  
and that horse has been such a [pal] to him   when he was alone  
you can tell i'm an animal lover  
you can hear my dog  
yeah  
it was a beautiful story  
it really was  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i thought it was awful   and so graphic  
i mean i hadn't even imagined it you know  
i think we all heard the story of the slaughter of the buffalo  
um i had a friend who had fixed some uh chili buffalo chili and about a week before went to see the movie  
of course they raise them now you know to eat  
but she we were both feeling so guilty about enjoying this chili after seeing that  
no  
it wasn't  
oh yeah  
yeah  
really  
and to think about how it just changed the whole landscape you know you could follow this this beaten down path  
and it sounded like thunder and [earthquakes] and that sort of thing  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh have you seen any of the behind the scenes uh of of that movie  
it was  
they tried to keep it you know as very close to real  
i mean like kevin costner did all of his own scenes  
and uh they had to teach a wolf how to to howl  
that's the part they had trouble finding was wolves  
yeah  
what  
they just don't howl that much anymore  
i could bring them in with my dogs and set a [siren] off  
and that's all they'd have to do  
yeah  
well i think we've made it  
i don't know  
is it five or three  
i'm not either  
okay  
me too  
well thank you  
yeah  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
yes  
uh_huh  
no  
unfortunately i haven't  
i heard it's really good  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what does uh  
is  
[robby] robin williams does he have a funny part in it  
oh how does he do serious  
i've only seen him in funny stuff  
and so  
yeah  
uh garp the world according to garp  
i didn't read see the the movie  
i read the book  
but i  
yeah  
in fact it got some pretty serious deep parts in it  
so  
yeah  
i think the last movie that we went out to see was dances with wolves  
good  
we've both seen one  
did you cry through it  
it was telling a friend i i said i only cried twice  
but each was about half an hour long  
so  
um let's see  
when i each time that i thought that the indians were going to get killed i cried  
um i cried the first time when the um the wagon man got killed when they attacked him  
and uh i think from there on all the way through the movie  
let's see what else did it um what other parts  
i can't remember any of the other parts right off now  

i don't remember when the horse got killed  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
unfortunately we don't have any animals  
so uh  
it  
there was a lot of pretty scenery too in that movie  
what did you think about the buffalo scenes  
that was  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's not  
uh_huh  
well at least you know that it wasn't same situation that the buffalo died in  
um i thought the scenes when the buffalos running though were beautiful  
like that was great  
and there were so many of them  
i didn't know that that many [buffaloes] alive much less in one place  
so that was pretty  
yeah  
i wonder how they kept up with them though  
it seemed like the [buffaloes] were moving so fast  
i guess they [graze] though  
that wouldn't be a problem  
no  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
oh  
i guess they're just not [domesticated]  
or or  
uh   that'll teach them in a couple minutes huh  
well that's funny  
oh is that five minutes  
is that  
okay oh  
i'm not sure  
okay  
well i think we're we're we've done okay though  
well thank you for calling  
and i hope you enjoy some more good movies  
bye bye  
[cindy] have you seen dances with wolves  
oh that is a wonderful movie  
no  
oh goodness no  
you don't even you don't even realize it you know  
really  
oh i thought it was great  
yeah  
well yeah  
and i heard a story about there's a there's a certain scene in the movie where there's um where they're they're on a buffalo hunt  
and they have a particular child actor uh who's who's being supposedly run down by a buffalo  
and when they were trying to film that the buffalo that they used for that scene was neil [young's] buffalo  
i can't remember what they said his name was  
but he has a [fetish] for [oreo] cookies  
and he got him to run like he was running down the kid by [luring] him with [oreo] cookies  
i thought that was really funny  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
the wagon the wagon driver  
yeah  
and uh the [costuming]   yeah was  
the only thing about the [costuming] my husband [remarked] that it didn't that that um the indians all appeared to be wearing new things  
and they should have taken them out and rolled them in the dirt a little more   probably   to age to age the material  
so they they did very authentic [reproductions] of the   of the actual stuff  
but they didn't they didn't age it   quite enough it seemed  
but it was a very good movie  
what have you seen lately  
oh i didn't see that  
i don't i don't like stephen king  
really  
i wasn't sure  
because uh just generally you know that kind of scary stuff i i just don't want to have anything to do with it  
yeah  
i think i heard somebody talking about that she cuts his foot off or something you know  
um  
ugh  
yeah  
it still just seems a little twisted to me  
i'm not sure i would have enjoyed that at all  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i know  
we don't see movies at the movies a lot  
the last  
we did go see dances with wolves  
and we went to see not without my daughter  
but mostly we wait until they come out on video tape  
and then we rent them  
oh yeah  
that looks really good too  
and silence of the lambs  
i'm i'm intrigued by it  
but i'm not sure i want to go see it yet  
i think uh  
well now we had some friends that went to see it  
and they said it was okay  
so it might not be as  
i think they may be playing up   um some aspects of the movie that aren't the main aspects  
now we went to see the jagged edge  
yeah  
so it's it seems like you know that kind of   the thriller suspense and not not real um strange in other ways  
okay  
maybe we'll talk to you again  
alright  
bye bye  
no  
i haven't  
have you  
uh_huh  
it's not  
the length isn't too long  
uh_huh  
uh   well we all heard different opinions about it  
uh  
uh_huh  
one that you know  
yeah  
it was too long  
and they thought that you know at certain points that it was going to end  
and it didn't  
and it kept going on  
and  
uh_huh  
really  
now i've seen you know some different clips of it um  
and it it looks good  
it's just i haven't had the time to go to the movies lately  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
hey  
that'd work for me  
let me tell you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now i've seen another clip of um the guy that plays in murphy brown  
i don't know his name  
but he played the uh the the character in it that was very like gross i mean very dirty  

oh i saw the one clip of him  
and ugh  
it was first  
i guess he was taking kevin costner to like the site where he was going to be or whatever  
that was rather um gross  
yeah  
yeah  
but other than that i've heard the the you know the um the scenery in it   is absolutely beautiful  
uh_huh  
really  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the styles  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i guess i will have to see it then  
um actually have been to the movies um  
i think the last movie i saw was misery  
oh very suspenseful  
i really don't either  
but i went with someone  
and once i was there i couldn't believe  
i mean it's an excellent movie  
yeah  
it's not necessarily it's not necessarily scary as it is suspenseful  
i mean it's not  
no  
in in the book apparently she cuts his feet off  
but in the movie she she [disables] him but not by cutting his feet  
um she she breaks both of his ankles  
and that i couldn't watch  
and but you know you could tell when it was coming  
so yeah um  
that was so that he couldn't leave her  
cause she  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean   yeah  
well as far as that goes  
yeah  
i mean you wouldn't like to see anything happen to anybody  
but it was just how she got so caught up  
her emotions  
and you know and and she feel [madly] in love with this writer  
and there was this  
but she was a killer  
and the the character was you know prior to that had had been someone that had killed other people  
but no one knew that  
so but  
so yeah  
we just haven't had the time to go to the movies lately  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
now i want to see sleeping with the enemy  
uh   yeah  
that looks good  
and there were a couple others that i just haven't had the time  
now see i  
yeah  
i don't think i want to see that either  
i know  
i don't think i could  
really  
really  
uh_huh  
oh i liked that movie  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh um  
well i guess that's about it  
it was nice  
okay  
it was nice talking to you  
bye bye  
okay  
oh i hadn't seen that  
but i've heard that it's real good  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
oh  
well last week as a matter of fact my children was on spring break  
and we went to two movies  
we went to see awakenings   with robin williams  
and we went to see kindergarten cop  
and i really liked both of them  
i really did  
awakening was it was kind of sad to me  
it really was  
and it would it would be to anyone because you know they really don't know that much about it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but the drugs didn't work for long  
and they started having real bad side effects  
and this is about nineteen sixty four i believe or something like that  
and there still hasn't been any you know new development in prescribed drugs that can help it  
but yeah  
there you know  
it it was a big breakthrough  
but in time you know the all the side effects started showing  
bad  
yeah  
yeah  
they was actually went back like they were   you know  
yeah  
all it was  
they wasn't mild you know  
they was just bad side effects  
but i really enjoyed it though  
you know  
oh yeah  
that's strictly for entertainment  
that was just  
it was  
yeah  
he sure is  
he is  
as a matter of fact um sylvester stallone is that his name  
i really believe schwarzenegger is really going to be a variety player more so than he is because he really played the part good  
you know he could be this rough tough guy and then you know this substitute teacher  
it was really good  
oh i've seen that  
yes  
it is it is  
isn't it  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i did too  
i really did  
i enjoy a lot of movies  
now as far as let's say heavy violence i can't handle  
i'm not into that you know  
i  
like rambo and all that  
i  
that's just something i just don't want to watch  
oh  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
i guess i'm a little too scary for that  
oh uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yes  
it is  
it really is  
yes  

yeah  
watching  
yes  
oh i don't want to go home  
yes  
yes  
oh goodness  
yes  
oh  
yes  
i know uh  
i have two children  
i really try to watch what they watch  
i really do because my youngest one he watches something you might as well just plan on staying up all night because you know   he'll come in  
mama i think the ghost is in the house  
mama i hear it  
don't you  
they're eight and ten  
so they're you know  
it's just a movie you know  
i try to say it's just a movie  
but no  
mama i've seen it  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
oh  
die  
oh  
oh  
it's funny how your little minds work  
isn't it  
oh  
oh i guess that's why the actors and actresses make millions of dollars  
people like us you know  
oh goodness  
well well i've enjoyed talking to you  
and maybe we'll run across each other again  
do you  
well as far as  
we could not call in last week  
you know from where i'm at   we couldn't call in  
they said it would be up friday the march the fifteenth before it was prepared  
so i missed several days because i was getting quite a few calls  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
yes  
oh  
well my husband sometimes you know he'll receive a call  
and he's at work  
and if i you know if i know the topic i'll go ahead and accept it as mine  
but the other day i got one about fishing  
and i thought oh my  
i don't know a thing about fishing  
so i'm not even going to try  
because when they listened to that tape they would have really had a good time  
believe me  
yeah  
but i'm really not for sure though if  
well i'll let you go  
and we'll talk to you later  
bye bye  
all right  
last thing i saw was um i think uh sleeping with the enemy with julia roberts  
my husband didn't like it that much  
i thought it was okay  
it was a little strange you know  
this woman supposedly is um being mentally abused by her husband you know  
he keeps her pretty much [terrorized] to stay in the house  
and she figures out this way to um to leave him secretly  
you know she fakes her death kind of thing  
and   he tracks her down  
so the the end scenes are are kind of suspenseful you know when she realizes he's in the house you know after her  
but uh kind of had the feeling along that uh  
why didn't she just tell him to straighten up  
you know why didn't she just tell  
hey look [bucko]  
you don't get away with this nonsense  
but anyhow um what have you seen  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so this is where the people have been kind of  
i don't a better word to say than like asleep or in a coma   for a long time  
and the drugs let them come back  
oh  
um  
well how bad were the side effects  
oh  
oh  
um  
um  
um  
well how about kindergarten cop  
you know arnold schwarzenegger is getting to be uh a bit of a variety actor you know  
at first he was just a big muscle man  
but he's kind of [branching] out  
uh_huh  
um  
well there was a movie out  
it's been on cable  
i get cable  
and there's this thing with uh danny de [vito] called twins  
i thought that was just great  
i even like some i mean some of the original stuff  
like i like the terminator  
at first you know it was kind of strange  
but i still like watching him in the terminator   and and some of the other things  
um total recall last year i thought was really good last summer  
guess it didn't last too long at the box office  
but i thought it was pretty good  
and  
um  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
and i i have some  
one person at work i know gets really into those goofy horror [flicks]  
and i just keep telling her how can you do that  
and i told her when she had her her little girl  
i said now you better get out of the habit of watching those  
you shouldn't be watching them with your little girl  
and she says her little [girl's] into it now  
and she she watches these really gross things you know like   the nightmare on elm street   and the you know that kind of   junk  
i don't go for that at all  
i remember when i was real little i we all went to some kind of scary movie  
and it was like this big house had a basement  
and there was all these weird things going on in the basement you know  
and i was scared to death of our house had a basement for years  
you know  
and i got a lot of really weird ideas   from that goofy movie  
you know they tell you that kids can you know be impressed by all that stuff  
and it's true  
i i had a lot of things that i i  
nobody told me that it was all fake  
i was just sitting there watching it   going oh jeez  
but i think a lot of kids it's funny get the same kind of fears like there's somebody under the bed  
where do we get that from  
um   how old are they  
oh  
but i remember i was with a friend of mine had uh three kids  
and the little boy must have been oh maybe about ten  
and we rented [charlotte's] web  
okay  
and he just [bawled] at the end   and just uh she's not going to die  
and we were trying to say kenny it's okay  
and he didn't want to listen to it  
he just was beside himself you know  
this is supposed to be a nice children's movie [charlotte's] web  
he just couldn't stand it that charlotte was going to die at the end  
oh yeah  
she's so nice  
she can't die  
oh it was  
oh  
you too  
yeah  
this is kind of neat  
i haven't ever initiated a call  
i've just been called you know by the switchboard  
and uh well the first week i think a lot more people were doing it  
but i normally get a call like every other day  
um  
uh_huh  
um how weird  
i don't know  
and they they do have a variety of topics  
my first one was the toughest  
it was something like discuss pollution  
it was discuss air pollution   causes of it and [cures]  
i was going oh well  
uh_huh  
say well i know it takes a fishing pole and some bait and some water  
all right  
bye bye  
yes  
i saw home alone with some friends just a couple days ago  
i wanted to see it uh because there was uh much recommended   for months and months and months  
and it was a a genre that i wasn't in the least bit interested in  
and i usually when i hear about a movie that's supposed to be very good   even if it's in a genre i don't like  
i figure well i should go see it because if this is you know the best of the genre and i should know about it or something like that  
and i usually come away thinking no i really don't like this show  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well the the problem i had with the movie was the problem i've had with a lot of uh i guess hollywood movies   which is they are it's a formula movie  
and they're making the movie according to certain formula that's a good formula  
but they seem to fall short of of being really creative with a lot of things  
i mean   here's the situation of this kid at home you know  
it's a classic slapstick situation with these [bungling] [burglars] trying to get in  
and you know he did some clever things  
but given the size of the house and how clever the kid was it seems to me they could have done a lot more i mean you know basically stepping on things and yelling in pain  
and it seems to me they could have been a lot more creative stuff used  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i guess it was a uh a very successful movie financially  
so   we may see more slapstick  
yeah  
it is it is  
and i guess you don't have to but you know if you look at oh  
have you ever seen any of the movies  
the french movies that  
um  
no  
i'm not with you so far  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
they have they have a  
yes they like your lewis much to the chagrin of sophisticated of sophisticated american everywhere  
but they have this one guy who does slapstick comedy  
and there's something about it that's so innovative you know  
he'll have trouble picking up his hat or catching his umbrella blowing in the wind or something  
but there's something about it that just it isn't just slapstick  
there's something about the human character in it  
and that's what i find lacking in a lot of you know like home alone  
there was a lot of the human character when he was home alone and he was trying    
and there was a lot of human character there  
but when it was the real slapstick moments him versus the criminals kind of thing it just sort of lost the human element   and became purely a [caricature]  
does that make since to you  
yeah  
yeah  
did you go with kids though  
did you go with kids  
did you take kids along  
oh i would have liked to have a kid with me i think [preferably] someone seven or eight   just just to get a sense for you know how how it affected them   especially to come home  
and you know i would have gotten in trouble the next day  
i'm sure  
oh teenage mutant ninja turtles  
uh_huh  
and your cousin's a kid  
uh_huh  
yeah  
isn't it amazing  
yeah  
yeah  
it was all [bloodless]  
and the good guys can get hit all day long  
and they have to shake it off  
they don't they don't you know get uh [epileptics] that sort of thing from getting hit on their head  
you know it's a little disturbing the violence in these films  
partly it's supposed to be a little bit more okay because it's comic book   on the other hand it makes it seem like  
i read an article one time talking about even the quote unquote realistic movies don't have very realistic upsets of the violence  
the violence can seem very realistic  
but the aftermath is usually not there  
so you see people who are severely injured very very badly lose control of body functions  
they [thrash] around  
they scream you know uh  
it's just a very very bad thing  
and they never present that  
even the movies that want to show violence as real they don't really show you what happens with that real violence  
and i'm not really sure how i feel about that  
uh on the one hand i'd like it to be a warning  
on the other hand i wouldn't want people who currently get sort of enjoy their violence fixes from these movies to start thinking gee now we want to see the aftermath all the time either  
but  
yeah  
teenage mutant ninja turtles was sort of the same way  
they i guess they figured i mean they know what they're doing  
and they make the movies good enough i guess i'm a bit of a [snob] they make the movies good enough to be successful  
and then they don't and they but they could make them better you know  
they could try to make  
i mean as far as i was concerned teenage mutant ninja turtles could have been a classic of world theater  
it could have been you know  
it was it was innovative uh a completely new approach to making a movie in a lot of ways  
and yet it ended up not being anything particularly memorable because the the story was stupid and and then things like that  
and they built up  
i remember feeling annoyed again i didn't have a kid with me and i remember feeling annoyed that they had this whole thing about the master and the passing of wisdom the from older to younger generation  
it was it was a classic greek you know you know a sort of european mess going back three thousand years that they're playing with  
um and he had to  
and he told them remember remember you were united you can succeed individually you will fail  
and then there was a big [climactic] fight scene  
and they didn't remember that  
they didn't fight together  
they fought individually  
and they failed individually  
and then that was it  
then they had to have the master beat him  
and the master should according to the classic myth the sort of [joseph] campbell type myth he the master should have died at the end   because the the lesson was passed to the young generation  
and the older generation is not needed  
and is [reborn] to the younger generation  
and on and on and on and all this wonderful mess  
and it still would have been every bit as accessible a movie for the kids if they had included all this stuff that i anyway as an intellectual adult would appreciate  
it wouldn't have hurt the movie to do that  
and it would have make it uh broadened the audience that it could have been targeted for i thought  
but i uh i'm truly enough you know i'm truly an intellectual [snob]   to be going to these kinds of movies  
i realize that i mean to go to these movies and expect them to be you know other than just just good entertainment   kind of thing  
yeah  
yeah  
i i i i'm very i'm very critical  
i i i'm actually originally from hollywood  
and then then then  
and my father works in films  
and such  
and i tend to tend to be [hypercritical]   of these things  
and then perhaps perhaps it's unfair because i i i must admit i enjoy these movies  
and that's what they're for  
but i don't don't remember them  
and i think it's i think i can think of movies i have less fun during  
and then after the [movie's] over i remember it so terribly well   because it it had some some meaning to me or something  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
they leave  
yeah  
they leave they leave some songs with you  
i don't know what it is  
but it just  
i mean i don't know if this is old [fart] talking here   or something because i'm not that old  
you know those old movies seemed to have had something   that uh that was memorable somehow  
i don't know what it was  
okay  
well um thanks for hearing me rap i guess  
all right  
nice talking with you  
no  
i'm in california  
yeah  
there must be texas people as near as i can tell  
well  
okay  
well i'm from the  
all right  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right uh_huh  
yeah  
i i i i feel that way when movies are like blown up out of proportion you know  
usually people tell you how good they are  
and you always you know end up with expectations too high or whatever  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i was very surprised that did do a slapstick movie because that's uh not really the way comedies are right now  
you know all the comedies are more like jokes and you know [gags] and stuff like that  
there's not as much slapstick anymore  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's true  
it's very cheap to make a slapstick movie  
excuse me  
no  
not really  
the last movie i saw i guess uh was uh uh the one about the french the frenchman that leaves and comes back and he's someone different  
um he's uh  
well it's about a man uh that uh leaves his home and comes back to his wife  
and his wife's all excited  
but the guy that comes back is not her original husband  
but um   [o'gear] um i'm sure you've heard of it  
it was a very famous uh popular movie  
norman gray  
norman gear  
oh shoot i'm going to hit myself after i hang up  
i'll remember the name  
but uh anyway that was a french movie  
it was um that was the last one i saw downtown  
but i live in d c   well actually falls church virginia outside the city  
and uh so a lot of times they have the the the international films downtown  
but uh so this uh french i guess are into the  
i guess they would like jerry lewis too  
right  
oh uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i see what you're saying  
there's less character development rather just the the the [funniness] of the [gag]   rather than  
and how it fits with the character right  
excuse me  
no  
we went uh without the kids  
it's was a night out away from the children  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that that's true  
i i was thinking about that too  
i saw that um  
that's why i watched another silly movie um um with my cousin was uh uh the one about the um the turtles  
right  
yeah  
i saw that with my cousin just to see what you know what the kids are into  
and that is  
yeah  
he's a little  
yeah  
he's  
anyway and that was just [excessively] violent  
i was worried  
it's like golly  
if kids start [imitating] that   they'll knock each others blocks off  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you're right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that's true  
yeah  
there's not too many that are uh that are good just on their you know that that you wouldn't want to change something  
and there's always something that uh  
uh_huh  
oh really   uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
there there there are several movies that hit home like that  
of course the ones i always remember are the the older ones  
i always like the musicals and uh   those ones that just stick in your head  
uh_huh  
no  
it could be  
uh_huh  
um okay  
well i guess i got to get going  
got to go take care of the children  
yeah  
nice talking with you  
are you calling from texas by the way  
oh okay  
the first person i've talked to outside of texas  
yeah  
okay  
well thank you very much  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
no kids  
was that the animated version  
even better than roger rabbit insofar as animation  
yeah  
yeah  
that was made in a few i don't know several years back i guess  
latest latest one i've saw which was a mistake to go see was [lionheart]  
had claude van damme  
he was he's of course uh i guess he's trained in this uh martial arts of some sort  
but the plot was bland  
the acting was bland  
it was just mostly centered upon his abilities to  
yeah  
chop them up  
exactly  
and  
yeah  
or he's [singular] i guess you know  
you know how they can make any of any single one of them in a movie to be a   super   [superstar] of any sort you know  
but chuck [norris] of course could be just about equal   if not more  
or and all of them i guess could be in that fashion   or category  
it was about uh a   french foreign [legion] fellow who deserts to go help his brother's wife who got who became a widow because he was selling drugs  
and he got killed  
so he deserts and goes to new york  
and he starts out by fighting to make money  
and then he moves on to l a to where that where she is to just help him out  
it was really i mean the hollywood really must think there's some real dummies out there or something  
i don't know  
well it was worth the buck i guess  
a lot of  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i [absorbed] all of that movie in one sitting  
uh i guess what made it so good was the cinematography  
yeah  
and the music  
and uh well it had an excellent story line  
everything about it was good  
um i thought an excellent one too was misery with kathy [bates] and james [caan]  
i'm not a james [caan] fan  
but that was a well directed and acted movie  
i'd recommend it  
it's a little on the violent side  
but then what movie isn't anymore  
well i have no objections to it  
it's just uh  
and it's a matter of your taste uh  
yeah  
and even on those type they don't show what you expect  
right  
yeah  
that seems to be the norm of most movies  
but   what the hey  
this is america  
yeah  
yes  
i have  
that was pretty good  
i always wait for the movie  
i don't have time to read the book  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they  
that's the magic of hollywood special effects  
i hear this movie f x part two coming out is uh pretty good  
did you ever see the original one  
it was uh  
you ought to rent the uh f x part one  
it doesn't say part one  
but it it's f [slash] x  
a uh special effects man who somehow gets involved in this um  
oh i'm not sure  
i can't remember  
it's been a while since i've seen it  
but he he gets involved in some sort of bad dealings with somebody  
and he has to go underground  
and he uses all of his special effects knowledge in doing what needs to be done  
and uh  
right  
and using makeup and using the   all the [props] and whatever to get to where he needs to go  
but you need to rent the first one first  
uh if if that is that the second one follows the first  
i don't know if they have the uh original actors on that first one to that one  
oh  
i expected those  
i mean hollywood i mean they were doing their dealings with that before they even got over there i think  
uh_huh  
actual names   will not be used  
eventually i'm sure they will come out with the   the the proper names  
latest story  
uh_huh  
kevin costner i understand is supposed to be play schwartzkopf supposedly  
i don't know  
that's just one of the many rumors that floats around  
or what you read  
pretty much used up the tape i guess  
same  
and uh we'll   talk to you on the next go around  
[adios]  
okay  
movies  
i haven't seen too many lately  
i have kids  
and we went and saw the [rescuers] down under under   over the the break  
do do you have kids you take to movies  
or  
yeah  
it's a walt disney movie  
and it didn't get as you know as good a reviews as like the little mermaid their last one and got all kinds of academy awards and things last year  
but this one was i thought was excellent  
the  
yeah  
it's animated  
and i can't believe how good they're getting with their animation now  
it's just just the special effects you know  
and in this movie this there's this boy  
and he [rescues] this uh bald eagle  
and uh and it's a huge eagle you know wing span of twenty feet or something like that  
and the boy actually rides on his back  
and he rides through the clouds you know  
and you see him coming out of the clouds his head coming out and then the bird coming out  
and it you know they're flying all over with it  
and i mean i know they there must have used been computers or something for animation this day  
but it was just so real realistic and [lifelike] and good animation  
it was a good show  
well roger was a [composite] one  
there's one there's a movie i've seen roger rabbit  
that's not a recent movie  
but uh i enjoyed that show  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
chop them up huh  
this is supposed to be the the guy that's uh replaces bruce lee or whatever or   or the next chuck [norris] type of guy  
uh_huh  
[superstar]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hum  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really uplifting huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i haven't heard i hadn't heard much about that movie  
i  
other than it was a chop them up movie  
but uh well i guess that's one i won't go see  
oh you went to the dollar movie  
yeah  
yeah  
they show up at the dollar movie right after they get come out  
you know they're usually not not that great or didn't do that great anyway  
let me see  
let me see  
another movie i watched  
uh i want to see uh that new one uh that won all those academy awards this year dances with wolves  
i haven't seen that  
have you seen that one yet  
what what what  
the the wide open the spaces  
uh_huh  
is that right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
our movies today it used to be x  
and you know and p g used to be r  
and seems like the rating system you know is kind of switching that way a little bit  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
it's just that  
yeah  
it's just that the rating system seems you know instead of having x now they have what n c seventeen  
they just changed it because x had a [connotation] with it you know  
so  
right  
a lot of those are really violent type movies  
really gory  
yeah  
let me see  
one movie i saw i guess it was a while back red october  
have you seen that one  
yeah  
i read the book before  
so i knew the story line going in  
but they changed some things in the movie  
it wasn't the same  
i thought the book was better than the movie  
but i thought the movie was really good as well  
yeah  
i don't  
i read about one or two thick novels like that a year   you know  
that's about all the time i can i can spare  
but that was a good show i thought you know  
i read about how they did uh an article on how they did all the special effects with the submarine  
you know that wasn't a real submarine you saw in the water  
it was it was all done in studio with smoke and mirrors and all the hollywood magic  
all those underwater scenes  
i thought you know  
it looked to me like it was a real submarine   that was in the water you know  
yeah  
is that right  
i didn't  
huh what's that about  
hm  
to to fool people  
and  
all the tricks  
uh_huh  
that sounds like an interesting concept  
to understand what's going on in the second  
uh_huh  
they're supposed to be coming out with all these desert storm movies   this summer too  
yeah  
yeah  
well they had some  
in some of those you know they i guess they [retitled] some movies that were going to be about lebanese and and you know and   and americans  
and they decide oh make it iraqis and americans you know  
and they just change the title and uh and [reshot] a few parts you know where they yeah you know where they could  
i guess they figured we wouldn't can't tell the difference between an  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
it was such a  
it  
i guess they they'll probably come out with a lot of movies you know  
it was it was such a [rout] though you know  
i don't know you know  
they probably do the story of someone who was shot down early in the war or something and how he survived or   or about or about those two newsmen or whatever that got captured  
is that right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i think we've probably  
yeah  
yeah  
it's been about five minutes  
it's been nice talking with you  
keep on watching those movies huh  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
so what kind of movies have you seen lately i guess  
obviously you have kids  
i haven't seen that one yet  
um the last movie i saw was uh sleeping with the enemy  
uh see i'm not a big julie roberts fan  
but i was a lot i was a lot more impressed with her than i thought i would be  
it turned out to be a better thriller than i was expecting it to be  
yeah  
it was a pretty good movie  
i i'm ready to go  
it just  
it's you know hasn't worked out that way yet  
you know it's uh it looks good you know   if you like [thrillers] anyway  
in fact people i've talked to said that they hadn't slept real good for a while afterwards  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what other movies have you seen then lately  
other than the  
i assume you were talking about the new ninja turtles  
is that any good  
i mean i'm sure i'm going to be seeing it because in a week to amarillo where my sister lives and she's got two boys that i took to see the first one  
so i'm sure i'm going to see the next one here real soon  
oh well then it won't be too bad  
you know it wasn't impressive necessarily  
but it was better than it could have been  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's important if you're going you know if you're going uh kids are going to uh parents are going to have to go   you ought to make it at least   you know semi for them too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i's about to say you're not going to take her to that one i'm sure  
do you take her or do you go to a lot of comedy movies  
or to  
what was the last comedy you saw  
the last uh  
in fact i guess this was the last movie i saw  
i said that wrong  
the last movie i saw was the hard way with michael j fox  
well that really wasn't too bad  
there were  
you know he's supposed  
you know he's this actor right  
and he's playing a cop  
or he's hanging around with a cop trying to pick up the stuff  
i think he did an excellent job in not being too much of a cop  
i mean there there were times when he was like he'd be running with a gun or whatever  
he didn't look like a cop when he did it  
and i was so   impressed with that because you know usually  
oh yeah  
because i mean everybody grows up looking at these cop movies and trying to you know to imitate them or whatever  
and uh i thought he did such an excellent job of not   going that far  
now by the end he was looking more like a cop   but at the beginning of the movie and all through the middle part you know he was trying to trying to get it  
but he wasn't there yet  
and you could tell it  
and i guess that i thought was a real good acting and writing job both you know because i think or directing job  
i think they did a real good job of that  
and james woods i think is who it was did an excellent job as the cop  
i mean you know he just  
yeah  
and there were there were some definite um should i say tense moments   with him in there  
yes  
i i i had seen it before christmas  
but i took a date to it uh about a month ago  
so i i i've seen it the second time not too long ago  
so  
i really enjoyed it  
of course the bad thing about it was uh the second time i saw it i didn't really enjoy it as much  
and i was kind of surprised at that  
i thought that would be one of those that i would love to watch over and over  
but before  
maybe it's just the idea of my reaction to the first time i had laughed so hard i was [hoarse]  
i really was i was [hoarse] getting out of there  
and maybe i just laughed so hard the first time that i didn't have it  
i mean it just wasn't as funny the second time   because i had just gone overboard the first time  
i don't know  
but  
yeah  
i mean it was it was a great movie though  
i loved the movie  
i love those movies  
oh yeah  
well you have to see them more than that  
i i i still catch things in airplane that i didn't catch  
i mean it's amazing  
i love those movies  
i really do  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh isn't it though  
you know but that's at least the good thing about the texas organization letting you buy the tickets cheaper  
that's exactly what   i was going to say  
i keep not doing it until after i'm there  
and then all of a sudden i'm saying i wish i'd bought these things  
easily  
yeah  
yeah  
and then if you want popcorn and stuff   it's just i mean uh it's incredible   no  
no  
nowhere near that expensive  
and it it's just the idea that these uh these actors you know live in such lavish style  
i mean it's as simple as that  
yeah  
and as long as we keep paying the money for it they are going to keep paying them  
yes  
oh yeah  
oh that was that was an excellent movie  
no  
don't  
don't  
that needs the big screen  
it really and truly does because to get the feeling   of like when the buffalos are when they're chasing the buffalos and everything   you've got to be where you feel it  
you really truly do  
i would  
i mean i guess my first instinct was to wait for the video too  
but i'm glad i didn't  
i really and truly am  
i mean that that was one movie i came out impressed  
i really and truly did  
i mean i have absolutely no problems with them winning seven oscars  
none at all  
normally i'm one of these people that i don't like one one movie taking all the honors  
i wanted him to win best actor on top of it  
he was  
like i said i wouldn't given the supporting actresses either one  
but even though they were okay the girl in it  
they  
somebody made an interesting [observation]  
now that i think back on it i'd say yeah i can't believe that either  
she was the only indian to have her hair done at all times  
you know what i mean you know  
it was just too perfect at all times  
that was a mistake that they made  
they shouldn't have done it  
now the best  
the supporting actor he was good  
but from what i heard the guy who got it was better  
so i you know i can see that  
but oh  
oh well there are there is one spot that was just a little bit on the gory side  
but um it's it's  
okay  
no problems  
it it's just the idea that there is this one spot where the white man has come by and killed a bunch a buffalo and just stripped its hide the [hides]  
so there's  
yeah  
but well   and and of course  
and well yeah  
that and plus i mean part of it is the idea that he goes with them on a buffalo hunt  
so i mean they are killing buffalos in it  
but they don't stress that very much  
they really don't  
and i think it's an excellent movie for  
if if she enjoys movies i think it'll work pretty good  
it's it's it's a long movie  
oh yeah  
i may have to see the video  
i hadn't even thought of that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well yeah  
i kind of like it when they do that because the video like i said  
there are certain things you can't do with a video  
and the idea that they may put a little extra in it i think is a good idea  
because i mean when you rent a video  
videos of course are not cheap either  
and so the idea of getting a little extra with it i think is a good idea because they they make [bundles] of money off those things  
oh i do too  
yeah  
but not enough  
yeah  
i'm getting to the point where you know i watch well i watch nick at night  
um a lot  
well the last movie i saw but it wasn't my choice was the ninja turtle movie  
that's right  
yeah  
but my preference is the one we saw before that was silence of the lambs  
that's an excellent movie  
oh was that good  
i heard  
oh okay  
well that's good  
yeah  
silence of the lambs kept me on the edge of my seat  
right  
yeah  
it is  
right  
and i do  
really  
oh i love them like that  
i'm not  
i mean i i like all ranges of movies  
but i like that where they run tense  
i really enjoy  
they keep me guessing the whole time  
it's really it was really interesting  
oh  
yes  
the new one of course  
oh  
amarillo  
i didn't see the first one  
my husband said it was um about the same lines  
so yeah  
right  
right  
and i was impressed with the fact that um it wasn't that [childish]  
you know what i mean  
it wasn't  
my daughter's five  
i mean she understood everything  
she goes to almost all movies with us except you know r rated  
and she really enjoyed it  
but it was on a higher level you know where there were some things that kids didn't understand that adults did  
and i liked that  
right  
that's right  
that's right  
it's pretty good  
but we take her to just about every movie  
and she uh she does really good  
we've taken her from real young  
and she does real good  
like i said we don't take her to r  
so if and when we ever get a baby sitter like we did with silence of the lambs we go see it  
oh no  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
oh gosh what was the last comedy we saw  
huh huh huh good question  
good question  
we don't get to go that often  
but something on the tip of my tongue  
and i can't think of which one it was  
uh gosh i can't remember  
uh_huh  
but that that sounds good  
uh_huh  
right  
oh okay  
that's neat  
the part was hard to do that  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i like him  
probably the last comedy we saw now that i think about it is home alone  
it was really cute  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
maybe so  
maybe so  
yeah  
i did too  
i'm looking forward to this summer uh naked gun two and a half is coming out  
i do too  
i mean they are just slapstick  
it  
you have to see those twice to catch everything  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i do too  
i do too  
so i'm looking forward to seeing that   because that looks hilarious   as they all do  
well we we try to go a couple times a month i guess   to see a movie  
it it's just getting so expensive  
but normally we don't think about it until  
i know because we can go spend fifteen dollars   just getting in   the three of us  
yeah  
i don't understand why they charge you out the [kazoo] for both  
you know popcorn is not that expensive  
so they get you at the ticket booth and then try and get you at the popcorn and coke  
yeah  
we just keep breeding them  
i guess so  
now have you seen dances with wolves  
i haven't seen  
we're waiting for the video  
no  
really  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  

yeah  
yeah  
yeah oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you think my daughter would like it  
oh okay  
she doesn't mind when we cover up her eyes  
see that's the one that is the honest to god the one reason i don't want to see the movie   is because i love buffalos for some weird reason  
and i know they're fake  
okay  
okay  
oh that'll be good  
we really need some  
my husband keeps wanting to  
yeah  
and i heard the [video's] even going to be longer  
they did a lot of stuff that they cut out  
yeah  
that's true  
they said  
yeah  
they said there's a lot that had been edited because of the length   and that they wanted in  
so they're going to put it in the video  
and that way you can watch it at your leisure  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
true  
i know it  
isn't that ridiculous  
we have cable which   helps a lot  
yeah  
we keep holding out you know  
all right  
what have you seen  
that's  
i knew you were going to say that  
i wanted i want   to go see that  
gosh  
yeah  
i i i watched uh costner on the academy awards  
i was really happy that he got  
i was hoping he was going to get best actor  
uh but he he he did pretty good on that one  
yeah  
yeah  
i'd i bet  
yeah  
there're several of them that are out right now that i want to see  
uh   dances uh silence of the lambs  
nay  
nay  
that's what people said  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know they they that's what they said about the [exorcist] you know  
no no  
it's terrible  
you'll have nightmares you know  
i watched last weekend  
me and my roommate  
we we laughed about it  
well i'll tell  
well i guess i i guess it was because i'd read the book before i saw the movie  
and the book to me was far more frightening than the movie was  
yeah  
he's a very good writer  
and he had a way of putting you in that scene you know  
it was  
yeah  
and of course i was i was living alone at the time  
and it was late at night and scary and you know  
you start hearing noises   you know  
and there's rats in the attic you know  
uh let's see  
there was a couple of others that are out  
and i can't remember  
yeah  
i i didn't i didn't even like the previews on that  
no  
i i don't much care for michael j fox anyway  
yeah  
i saw the original back to the future  
and then i i know  
i hardly ever go see a sequel  
i mean i think i think the only i've ever seen a sequel was two thousand and one  
uh two thousand and ten was far better  
two thousand and one was a good movie if you had read the book  
yeah  
no  
nobody could figure it out  
i mean   the the book was so much uh  
there's just things  
all you can do is put it in words  
you can't put it in pictures  
you know a lot of that stuff that was going on in the film you say what is this  
you know what's the significance of the [apes] you know  
oh the book is really good  
i mean i i keep a little library of books that i just like to read over and over again  
and that's one of them  
it's it's so well written  
oh you're right  
i haven't  
huh oh those  
a real dog and cat  
huh  
huh  
sounds sort of like the incredible journey  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
that sounds a lot like a walt disney film  
sounds a lot a like a walt disney film  
oh yeah  
not anymore  
i mean i i i was raised on walt disney films you know  
old [yeller] uh big red  
yeah  
when i was a little kid i saw the incredible journey on christmas eve  
and   it was so good that i had forgotten   that it was christmas eve  
i mean   that's something for a kid  
and that was something for greedy old me at christmas time i'll tell you  
no  
is it  
yeah  
i didn't much care for the first one  
maybe that's  
well i i'll have to go get that one i guess  
yeah  
it's it's   yeah  
i get so tired of you know these you know sequels  
number nine number ten number   fourteen  
yeah you know  
yeah you know  
[freddy] eats a nuclear [warhead] you know  
i i'm just  
i'm so sick and tired of that  
i just can't believe it  
it's like rocky films  
i   i haven't seen a one  
i can't stand stallone  
yeah  
and i i was afraid that rambo was going to do the same thing that rocky was going to do you know   go into fourteen hundred episodes  
now i don't i hardly ever watch t v  
if i ever get the [hankering] to see something i've got i don't know maybe about thirty or forty movies  
and i just  
yeah  
i don't even rent them you know  
i i figure if i find a movie i like i'll buy it  
cause i just watch them over and over again  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
my my very favorite one that the top of the [tick] for me is uh [excalibur]  
i i loved that film um  
it's just so well done  
and i lived over in england for four years  
that was the first place i ever saw it  
and it was just gosh  
it was so good  
it was it was filmed in ireland  
and they got pretty scenery in ireland  
yeah  
it's nice  
and i i've been down to the south of england where supposedly king [arthur's] castle was  
yeah  
it was yeah it was [unimpressive] to look at  
i mean the whole thing was about the size of a a medium house  
yeah  
it wasn't  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there's some nice stuff over there to see  
i i spent four years traveling around and didn't see you know hardly anything  
i just  
i need   to go over there and stay about twenty years so i can just travel   go around all the places  
stonehenge of course you know  
every everybody makes the obligatory trip to stonehenge  
okay  
big deal  
here's some rocks sitting out in the middle of a field  
okay  
it's boring  
you know something  
i come to think of it i don't think i went to the movies one time  
i uh  
where i lived uh it was a little town called [newmarket]   about seventy miles north of london  
and there was another town called barry saint [edmunds] about twenty miles away from us  
and they had a little uh theater company there  
and we use to go go out to that about once a week  
yeah  
a really nice place  
you know amateurs but really quite good  
uh but that was interesting  
course   go to london quite a lot and see shows down there  
uh but other than that i just didn't have time to go to the movies you know  
never any anyway anything that i ever wanted  
i rented a lot of videos  
cause the closest movie theater was barry saint [edmunds]  
and who wants   who wants to drive twenty miles to go to the movies  
a lot of a lot of people did  
but it would have to be a good show  
yeah  
yeah  
i i  
they they they have all these neat [phrases]   you know you know you know like [critically] [acclaimed]  
that's what they when the thing hasn't won any award  
you know they can't  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
from love canal  
[waterfront] property here at love canal you know  
but you know [critically] [acclaimed]  
oh good grief  
give me a break  
that's  
i mean there's a lot of reasons why i don't go to movies  
and primarily i mean i now i'm probably going to going to upset you  
but people who bring kids irritates the heck out of me  
okay  
the latest movie i've seen that i thought was fantastic was dances with wolves  
oh man  
i i just finally ended up going to see it uh  
and one day my husband had the kids  
and i just went because we couldn't we could never get to go see it together because it's so long  
by the time we had a [babysitter] for that long  
so i finally just went to see it  
and i just thought it was fantastic  
yeah  
yeah  
that was quite a  
the buffalo scene in that thing   was so real  
it's like  
i mean it just   blew me away  
yeah  
uh i'm i'm afraid to go see that one  
that one looks so scary just   from the previews  
i thought gosh   i'd probably have nightmares for the next six months  
it's supposed to   be good though  
i know some friends who went to see it  
they said it was really [riveting]  
well you're not a thirteen year old  
i don't know  
i saw it when i was a kid  
and i thought oh man  
oh uh_huh  
oh really  
huh gosh  
oh boy  
gosh  
call the crisis line  
yeah  
i bet  
oh gosh  
i saw one i thought was crummy  
with that new uh michael j fox movie the hard way  
where he plays a a actor that's uh like huh  
oh i know  
it was  
well i ended up at the theater  
and there was didn't seem to be anything else on i wanted to see  
so i'll try that  
but it wasn't worth anything  
i didn't care   for that at all  
yeah  
well the last two i saw him in one of those back to the future part three deals  
and that was crummy also  
i   didn't think that was any good  
so  
yeah  
oh boy  
yeah  
yeah  
well i hadn't read it  
and i couldn't figure what was going on half the time  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i should probably go back and read the book now that i just saw the movie again not too long ago  
wow huh  
huh well i have one i bet you haven't seen if you don't have kids [otis] and [milo]  
oh that is that is the most precious movie  
it has to see it on the big screen because it's just the most gorgeous nature scenes you've ever seen in your life  
and it's all this  
it's the story of this little cat and dog  
and it's not like [cutesy]  
it's just uh it's just so realistic everything they do  
you wonder how in the world they ever got them to do some of these things  
and it was   a real dog and   cat  
and all the other animals  
they initially start out in the [barnyard] kind of setting where they're raised  
and then the cat gets um on this [treacherous] journey  
he [climbs] into a box and ends up floating down this river  
and he winds up all over [creation]  
i don't know where in the world it is  
somewhere in china somewhere i think that it was filmed  
but uh it's just really an incredible thing  
yeah  
it was pretty wild  
and of course the only sound is dudley moore [narrates] it  
but there's no you know nothing else to keep it going  
but it really keeps   keeps me going  
i i've seen it twice now  
huh  
yeah  
it was like the best of the walt disney ones  
walt [disney's] kind of gotten worse in my opinion over the past few years  
yeah  
yeah  
all those old good ones that you you know wish they had on   more now  
but  
oh boy  
huh  
that's pretty good  
really  
let's see  
what are some other ones i've seen lately  
i'm trying to remember  
i can't  
oh i just saw one on the video  
oh um have you seen the gods must be crazy part two  
that is a riot  
yeah  
the first one was really good  
but the second one   is really good too  
i was really surprised  
no  
i thought it was funny  
but that's my sense of humor  
it's hard to find movies that aren't terrible violent or terribly bunch of sex going on anymore  
and i'm just i guess i'm just middle america or something  
i just go to be entertained  
and   and not really interested in some of the like the terminator or some of the schwarzenegger stuff  
i just  
yeah  
[freddy's] revenge part twenty five or whatever  
yeah  
i've never  
yeah  
yeah  
i've never seen any of those  
yeah  
i can't either  
he seems so macho i just  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
when they're so cheap too at the video stores that you can  
you don't  
that's like  
my husband does that  
he can watch   them over and over  
and i'm  
there's very few i would want to see that many times  
so he he once he has one he likes he likes to watch it over and over  
oh yeah  
that was a good one  
i haven't seen that one in a long time  
yeah  
oh boy  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
huh  
yeah  
i bet  
gosh  
oh boy  
so that really has a lot of meaning for you to see that  
oh really  
well when i was in england years ago  
and i went to to like [shakespeare's] and you know [stratford] on avon   and all that  
and it was like you couldn't stand up inside of it  
because it was so   short  
the ceilings   were so short  
but yeah  
yeah  
oh boy  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
did you see any movies over there  
i remember i went to see don [quixote] over there when it came out  
it came out right around the time with [sophia] [loren]  
and that was a riot to see that  
yeah  
cause when you're [touristing] you probably don't want to take the time to go see a movie  
huh  
oh boy  
uh_huh  
oh boy  
yeah  
that sounds great  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh boy  
probably some of them did  
yeah  
yeah  
it's hard to know what the good movies are anymore  
because sometimes the reviews you just can't go by  
yeah  
oh i see  
it's kind of like [waterfront] property or something   if you're you know if you're two miles away from water  
water view  
yeah  
uh_huh  

okay  
well actually what i do  
i haven't been to a movie theater in probably eight or nine months  
so i haven't really seen any movies in the movie theater  
but i rent probably four or five movies a week  
we've got a good video place out here  
and uh uh-oh gosh uh i'm just trying to think of all the movies i've recently seen uh  
oh air america  
have you seen wild orchid  
well it depends  
do you like uh [steamy] movies  
oh okay  
what type of movies do you like  

okay  
yeah  
do you like suspense movies  
or do you like uh just action  
or  
oh jagged edge  
jagged edge was a suspenseful one   or uh fatal attraction  
oh well i hope i don't run across them  
what was your favorite all time movie  
i i have to say that probably the one movie that really threw me back the most uh that i was really the most in shock with was probably uh star wars  
when that first came out i really did not expect the special effects or anything like that  
i mean i guess uh out of all the movies i've i've never been as excited to go back  
i was ready to go back and see it again you know  
now i i also liked uh-oh gone with the wind or some of the classic like the lawrence of arabia  
oh you haven't  
oh yeah  
no  
that's uh that's a that's a real interesting movie  
and it's got a good historical perspective to it  
oh yeah  
actually i just saw a movie uh called the lost [capone]  
and it's about al [capone's] brothers   primarily one of his brothers  
and i won't give the the whole plot away  
but it's it's really a good movie uh  
al [capone] had three brothers  
and one of them was lost for many many years  
and uh he actually he turns out to be a law man  
yeah  
it's really interesting  
it  
no  
that's okay  
i didn't give away the whole thing  
i just gave away just enough to get you interested  
yeah  
it is  
and a lot of times what i wind up doing is picking say an actor or an actress   and seeing like all  
i've seen all of james [dean's] movies   uh all of [mae] [west's] movies  
and just kind of kind of go out and uh rent all the movies and uh uh you know just kind of go  
i guess you could do that you know get all of david [carradine's] movies   or uh uh segal  
to  
what's his first name  
i can't remember his first name  
is it david segal  
i don't know  
he was on uh on uh uh arsenio just recently  
it was really kind of interesting because   arsenio was asking him about uh what he thought of uh one of the other action guys  
god i can't even remember the name  
he said well he wouldn't really talk about it  
didn't want to talk about him because he didn't think he was such a uh a good action guy  
it wasn't stallone  
it was uh  
i can't remember  
shoot i can't remember the guys name  
but i like all the the rambo movies  
yeah  
[yo] [adrian]  
no  
we we actually rent uh probably a good combination of movies with the exception of horror films  
don't watch really very many horror films at all  
you know i don't know  
there's something about people coming up through the sofa to get you or something you know   coming out of the t v that just doesn't make my day you know  
yeah  
yeah  
i just saw uh uh a really interesting movie called uh flatliners  
yeah  
yeah  
it was just crazy enough for  
you know students might try to do it  
you know i mean and it's not like there's a lot of scientific data on it  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that was a great movie  
yeah  
uh have you seen shrimp on the [barby]  
yeah  
it's got  
no  
no  
uh [hogan]  
no  
no  
it's got uh uh [cheech] [marin]  
yeah  
it is  
it's kind of uh kind of a poor man's pretty woman in reverse  
but it was kind of cute  
actually did you see dirty rotten [scoundrels]  
i though that was a really cute movie  
i enjoyed that  
no  
i haven't  
i hear that's the one that you really need to see at the theater instead of home video  
yeah  
well my wife uh has got a uh a picture from kevin costner  
and he signed it  
it's from dances with wolves  
yeah  
and he signed it  
he he happens to be uh a friend of one of her her business associates   and or not not a friend a cousin a cousin  
so uh uh but anyhow we got uh we got a nice uh picture  
and it came in an envelope that says dances with wolves  
so we've got to uh try to get out there and see that one  
huh  
now did you see uh driving miss daisy  
okay  
okay  
what's what's your most recent one that you've seen  
uh_huh  
really  
i used to do that too  
but i haven't been doing it lately  
but  
no  
see i haven't seen that one uh  
no  
is it good  
uh no  
not  
i know that sounds funny coming from a woman  
but usually i don't  
um action  
i i guess one of my favorite well two of my favorite movies is probably like lethal weapon and lethal weapon two  
and those are those are like two of my most favorite  
i mean they're just really good movies  
and i liked bird on a wire   and movies like that  
um yeah  
some i guess like  
what do you mean  
like like are you talking about movies like die hard two  
okay  
yeah  
i liked that  
that was pretty good  
um that was okay  
i i don't i guess i thought it was too far fetched  
but so many people said oh no it wasn't you know  
but i guess  
really  
that's true because  
i don't know  
i just didn't find that one to be real  
i i just thought it was too far fetched  
um oh gosh i i can't think off my head  
do you know which one yours was  
oh yeah  
well that's  
right  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
you're right about that  
but that that's really like an all time classic  
i mean i don't think anybody anything could ever beat that  
see i've never seen that  
no  
should i rent it  
should i go rent it tomorrow  
that's probably something i need to see right now because i'm taking history in school  
so it'd probably be a good thing for me to see   oh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
really  
oh you just gave it away  
i guess i can't go see it  
no  
that does sound good  
is it one  
i guess it's a rental  
okay  
i may have to do that go see it  
or go rent it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um it's not david is it  
oh i don't i don't watch that  
um  
really  
huh  
oh see i didn't really care that's that's one side of the action i guess that i didn't really care for  
but see i don't really like sylvester stallone  
i don't think he's really a very good actor  
i know that sounds awful because so many people think he's so wonderful  
but i just have never been a stallone fan  
hey that's pretty good  
no  
i guess like i say  
i just have i don't know i just have never seen any interest in him  
but  
oh  
yeah  
i don't either  
yeah  
you're right  
well it's so  
i guess i'm a real i'm a [realist] and so when i watch movies like that it's like this can not happen  
so i just don't enjoy it you know because it's just like come on give me a break  
you know i mean i just  
and so many of them are done so poorly  
you know that it just doesn't even give you the effect  
i mean some of them are done good  
and they do scare you  
but um so many of them are just done real  
i don't know  
i'm not really into those  
oh that was one of my favorites  
yes  
i thought that was a very good movie  
i was really impressed with that one  
i mean it was what i liked about it was that it was a new subject  
nobody had ever touched it before  
you know and it was just it was done so well you know  
it was just  
right  
well that's probably true  
but it was a very good movie  
it was done real well too  
i mean there wasn't any part of it that you really felt like no this can't happen  
it seemed it seemed real  
you know it was really good  
that that was one i mean  
it's not my all time favorite movie  
but it was good  
it was really good  
and um i don't know if you like this kind  
but i thought pretty woman was a really good movie too  
yeah  
i've we've seen that two or three times  
we waited  
and we rented it  
you know but but it was really good  
no  
i haven't  
i don't know if i've even heard of that one  
it must have uh what's his name in it  
no  
it doesn't  
really  
yeah  
paul [hogan]  
no  
really  
i'm surprised  
oh really that must be pretty good then  
was it good  
oh  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
it was  
twins was good too  
because when i thought of that i thought of  
anyway  
um oh there was another one  
what's the one that just  
oh dances with wolves have you seen that yet  
oh you've got to see that one  
it's really  
right  
that's probably true  
that's probably true  
it's it's very very good very good  
that's another one that  
i was really glad when it won all those awards because it really [deserved] it  
really  
oh wow that's impressive  
oh neat  
oh yeah  
it's really worth it  
i mean it's a very good movie  
and yes  
i would suggest seeing it at the theater  
i know that they're still playing it  
and they pushed it back to playing it in the theaters until like august  
i think because they were they were scheduling a video release of it in july  
and then when it won all those awards uh they pushed it back to august  
so but yeah  
that one is definitely worth seeing  
it's really good  
yeah  
and you know i didn't think that one was near as good  
you know i guess it was okay  
i mean it was all right  
but um when i compare like the winners of this year and last year it just  
i don't know  
maybe it's it's not  
yeah  
i'm trying to think what i've seen lately  
i  
well we just finished watching uh teenage mutant ninja turtles on tape you know  
yeah  
we we've seen that  
yeah  
yeah  
it was great  
have you seen it  
yeah  
i um  
we we saw an we liked it  
but you know i didn't think it was as good as all the uh hype was about it  
yeah  
i  
i i couldn't see it worth getting a nomination for uh best picture  
yeah  
yeah  
and so we just  
uh it depends um you know it depends on  
i'd like to see those  
i keep you know um you know there's like three movies that i i keep telling myself that i should see one of these you know some day that i haven't seen you know that that are classics you know  
because i've never seen citizen [kane]  
and never seen i've never seen [casablanca] and never seen gone with the wind  
uh_huh  
oh i i  
we saw part of the african queen on on t v a couple of years ago  
and i've i've i've been wanting to see all of it  
but we just you know we walk into the video store  
and we're like well why don't we go see this now  
so  
but um i  
one of the movies we saw recently we saw uh misery  
that was good um  
oh it was great  
and it  
you think you know for a stephen you know it because it was by stephen king it would be really gory  
but there's only one  
well there's a couple scenes at at the end there's there is you know some blood and everything  
and there's one really bad scene where it's i mean there's not blood but it's pretty graphic  
but it's um it's a really good movie um  
yeah  
yeah  
he's a writer  
and um she's his biggest fan  
and she's also   a little a little on the [nutso] side  
no  
we haven't um  
oh it wasn't  

i i got  
i heard like mixed reviews um of that  
we  
that's that's on our list of things to see  

our big thing is um  
you know movie prices up here  
i think it's like six bucks now in the theaters  
you know so it's like  
you know a lot of things we try to catch like at the dollar theater or [matinees]  
and then a lot of other stuff we just wait until it comes out on tape  

well one movie we saw in the last couple of months that we really enjoyed was uh edward scissorhands  
yeah  
have you seen that  
oh it was great  
yeah  
it was  
no  
no  
it's um it's an odd film  
and it's really interesting that  
i like the director a lot um a guy named tim [burton]  
did you ever see the movie beetlejuice  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
well if you if you liked beetlejuice you'll probably like edward scissorhands  
if you didn't like beetlejuice you'll probably won't like edward scissorhands  
yeah  
it's um  
[burton's] kind of uh  
he's a very odd odd man  
but he's  
i think he's very interesting  
and uh i liked those two movies of his a lot  
he did batman also which you know  
it was good  
but i mean he was um  
yeah  
oh yeah oh  
yeah  
um don't really know  
i like costner a lot  
but uh   i'm a big i'm a big baseball fan  
so you know after bull durham and field of dreams you know  
um although you know  
which one  
yeah  
field of dreams was good  
um and i i think i liked the other movies he's done  
no way out was really good  
and  
did you ever see [silverado]  
um let's see  
danny [glover] scott glen kevin [kline] um brian [dennehy] jeff [goldblum's] in  
uh john [kreas] is in it if you don't blink  
it was it was a big western  
i mean i think roseanne [arquett] was in it too another one that if you blink you'd miss her  
uh it was  
and i think it was like a three hour movie or two and a half hours  
and and it was one of those ones that could have been four hours if they hadn't cut a lot out  
um but it was it was really good um  
uh_huh  
no  
i didn't  
is that any good  
oh okay  
yeah  
we were in the video store today  
and somebody was recommending it to somebody  
you know the the people who run the video store was recommending it to somebody else  
huh well i'll have to catch it one of these days  
you  
you you said you seen no way out  
yeah  
that was very good  
um he was in the [untouchables] too  
yeah  
it was on um  
no  
it was on one of the networks i think last weekend   uh or two weeks ago  
yeah  
i um i wish i i mean i'd seen it when when you know it was originally in the theaters  
and um i saw it you know i saw part of it again  
i mean i like you know i like costner  
i like sean connery  
and uh there's this one there's this one actor  
it's really silly that i enjoy him a lot  
but i i've really enjoyed him in everything i've seen him in a guy named charles martin smith  
um you've probably seen him  
and just an  
you know oh that's who the guy is  
do you remember  
did you ever see american [graffiti]  
oh  
did you ever see the movie star man  
okay  
in star man he was the guy chasing after um jeff bridges and karen allen or nancy allen  
you know  
short [nerdy] guy with glasses  
he's he's just  
i i don't know why but he's always a lot of fun in every movie he's in  
he was in the [untouchables]  
he was the accountant  
yeah  
no  
no  
you're thinking of rick [moranis]  
he looks like rick [moranis]  
but he's not  
yeah  
yeah  
uh a little of  


a review usually won't make me go see a movie i hadn't already wanted to see  
no  
it's uh  
i want to see it  
um we want to see godfather part three also  
but my my girlfriend's seen part one and part two although she saw them years ago  
but i've never seen either of the first you know of the of the godfather movies  
so we're probably going to like rent those some time and then try to see godfather part three somewhere  
yeah  
oh okay  
i haven't   never read it  
uh_huh  
we just rented um a couple weeks ago a movie called the freshman  
with um  
it's got matthew [broderick] in it and um uh [marlon] brando  
and brando like does a [parody] of the character he played in the godfather  
um yeah  
it's it's one of the reasons why you know the [godfather's] been on our minds lately  
um but uh   there's a bunch of scenes from uh uh from the godfather that's used because matthew [broderick's] going to film school  
and uh in his classes they're using there's a they're running a bunch of scenes from the godfather  
and then he's running into [marlon] brando who is playing you know this you know this uh organized crime head  
so it's um it was it was a fun movie  
uh  
i liked rainman  
i thought i thought it was interesting that he was doing  
yeah  
well i'm  
being from baltimore of course i'm a big barry [levinson] fan since uh he he's you know he's done a bunch of baltimore movies  
um  
barry [levinson] did um diner and [tinman] and [avalon] which are all set in baltimore  
uh_huh  



of the three of those [diner's] probably the best  
i mean they're they're all pretty good  
but diner is really worth seeing  
uh late fifties  
yeah  
okay  
and uh  
do you want to start  

did you watch dances with wolves  
did you see the movie  
did you like it  
i thought it was very well done  
how about ghost  
right  
i feel the same way about that too  
it was okay  
no  
no  
and uh  
let's see uh  
the most recent ones that i've seen are those two ghost and uh dances with wolves  
but i rent uh uh videos  
do you  
you you watch many  
do you like the classics like uh gone with the wind and uh you know the older movies  
yeah  
that was good  
i think i've seen most of [humphrey] [bogart's] movies but in in you know a long time ago  
and uh like the [maltese] [falcon] and all those uh uh  
yeah  
that was good  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's true  
oh i didn't see that one  
really  
yeah  
really  
is that the one where uh the guy gets captured by that women  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
did you see pacific heights  
i saw that one  
that one wasn't that great either  
well i didn't think so  
no  
how about silence of the lambs  
i know  
i i wanted to see  
i i was curious if you had seen it  
and that uh  
yeah  
that's us too  
yeah  
yeah  
true  
i know it's too bad that they've gotten so expensive  
oh really  
no  
really  
i thought it was kind of maybe for kids more than  
uh_huh  
uh part of it  
i   i never really watched the whole thing  
oh really  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that was pretty good though really  
when you think of what it takes to make some of those kind of movies you know  
you see it for uh you know a couple of hours or an hour  
and it really  
there's a lot in it when you look at the scenery and the cars   and all the different stuff like that you know  
whose your favorite actress or actor  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that was good  
i saw that movie too  
that was very good  
field of dreams  
oh yeah  
yeah  
[silverado]  
uh who who was that with  
that  
the  
the the title sounds familiar  
i'm trying to  
oh really  
i i might have seen part of that because the name sounds familiar although i i would remember i think in with him in it  
how about revenge  
did you see that with him  
with uh anthony [quinn]  
i thought it was  
i like everything he's done so far  
you know it's uh one of those movies that it's not a great movie  
but it was okay  
yeah  
it was it was not a bad movie  
yeah  
that was excellent  
now that's another one i wanted to see  

in fact that was advertised not too long ago  
cable  
okay  
i know i saw yeah something about it  
uh_huh  
i don't know him  
no  
i i don't think so  
yes  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
oh oh i know who you mean  
he was in uh uh honey don't [shrink] the kids wasn't he  
oh okay  

all right  
yeah  
that's the one i was thinking of  
but i have i've seen quite a few movies  
i i enjoy them  
i think that uh it's it's kind of like uh good entertainment   an uh an escape type of thing  
how about some of the ads  
do you go by the ads when you look at them or the reviews  
do they influence you a lot  
yeah  
did you see [goodfellas]  
that that was pretty good  
um and  
uh_huh  
i was just going to say you should see those uh first if you can  
if if you read the book it's uh even better  
the book was excellent  
yeah  
and uh i was a little disappointed in the third  
it's godfather three  
it was not bad  
but i expected more i think  
oh really  
uh_huh  
how about tom cruise do you like his stuff   [cocktails]  
or uh  
oh yeah  
that was good  
i liked rainman too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they sound familiar  
i probably saw parts of those  
you know a lot of times i'll i'll start watching a movie  
and i'm tired  
and it  
next thing you know it's it's  
especially if there's commercial in it  
and then the titles might sound familiar  
but i really don't know what they're all about  
is that the one set in the fifties or sixties  
late fifties  
yeah  
i think i saw that one  
how about meryl streep  
uh i don't go to the movies a whole lot  
but uh i went two or three weeks ago for the first time in a long time and saw dances with wolves which turned out to be an extremely good movie  
yeah  
it's it's something that uh  
my brother lives over in fort worth  
and i was telling him about a couple of weeks ago  
and he said well i'll wait until it comes out on uh tape and rent rent the video  
and i said no  
this is not one that you want to do that with  
it's uh the scenery and the landscape and the country that they're in needs a big screen  
it's just beautiful country with the hills and the trees and the buffalo and the whole thing  
it's just uh just amazing amazing picture  
no  
it's one i think  
but you know every now and then you find one that you say yeah  
this is my favorite movie  
well this is the one for me this time  
yeah  
what have you been to lately  
yeah  
oh yeah  
is that right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
how's his karate  
well well they do  
they get  
i remember when we used to go to see well i remember when grand prix came out when i was a kid and some other movies like that  
we wanted to jump in the cars and race  
and i suspect today what they see is bound to be what they want to do when they get out of it  
is that right  
i did see ghosts  
yeah  
i think that ghosts was one of those that a lot of people didn't think was going to be any good  
and it turned out to be an excellent movie  
i've forgotten the guy's name who was in it who had the lead role  
yeah  
and i especially like him  
he's a really good guy  
other than that dances with wolves seems like to be the only thing i've seen in the past several months to have any  
is that right  
i've i've seen the ads for it  
but i'm not real sure what it's about  
yeah  
that is a strange combination  
yeah  
oh yeah  
both of them  
oh  
yeah  
years ago  
oh  
oh yeah  
and then defend it  
well i guess that's where the title comes from then  
yeah  
it is  
it's funny  
we've got a couple of movies out recently ghosts and defending your life that have to do with uh after life i guess  
and it kind of makes you wonder  
i'm also besides working at t i i'm a graduate student at north texas and working on master's in communication  
it's the behavioral science part of communication  
and i think about these things and people trying to define their own world view  
and uh   what exactly do we you know do we see about this world  
or why are we so fascinated with the other world  
is it supposed to be better  
sometimes i think we think it is  
we like those things that way  
well it has  
all the way through history there's i guess  
if you want to call its [mysticism] or the [occult] or whatever it's always fascinated  
i guess because we don't know  
and there's no real way of finding out  
there's only one way of finding it  
no  
i did uh did not  
the girl next to me saw it  
and she really liked it  
yeah  
it is  
yeah  
yeah  
they said she said that this was almost believable  
that could really happen  
you know you get the medical profession doing these kinds of things  
and you never know  
yeah  
yeah  
i like it when they will do something and not get too silly  
i've been disappointed in some movies that they don't know how to end it it seems like  
so then they get crazy  
and and it doesn't end like the story has been going  
well i guess that covers our topic  
nice talking to you  
bye  
i haven't seen that yet  
i i i hear  
we a whole bunch of us were going to go see it  
it's playing at school actually in about two weeks i guess  
so we're going to go see that  
but you enjoyed that  
that's what i heard  
yeah  
yeah  
i've heard it it it's not one for the videos  
really  
um let's see  
well uh this is almost sort of funny  
i was just um  
friend and i went to see out for justice   which is steven segal because uh we're both big karate fans  
so we wanted to see what this is like  
and uh impressed with actually  
yeah  
i wasn't i mean i've seen his other movies  
and i just think he's pretty good  
but uh this movie  
i'm convinced now he can act  
oh his his his karate is pretty good  
i think in this one it wasn't so good  
i generally um  
movies like that scare me though  
i'd be just fine without them because you know kids come running out wanting to beat each other up  
fighting  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well that that was number one for the week actually too  
so so it was a little bit uh  
i was thinking wow  
people must be into crime movies again  
but but in the middle of that conversation we sort or picked an um an interesting point  
last year's number one movie for the year was ghosts  
i don't know if you saw ghosts or not  
yeah  
and and and that was that that helped us sort of feel good about you know about ourselves and about one around us in that at least at least if everyone's running around seeing karate movies and stuff like that at least they're still going to see the real good movies you know  
yeah  
yeah  
it was it i was absolutely enthralled by it  
oh patrick swayze  
yeah  
he's very good  
really  
i'm trying to think what else i've seen recently  
what else have we seen recently  
oh you know what's pretty cute actually um  
defending your life  
have you heard of it  
yeah um  
i actually hadn't heard anything about it  
and some friends called up and said do you want to go see this movie  
and and they said it starred um meryl streep and mel brooks  
at first they told me  
and i thought what a strange combination  
mel brooks and meryl streep  
well actually it starred that that it's actually [albert] brooks  
so it's lot better  
mel brooks you probably know  
i know  
so it it was a strange combination  
but it turned out to be a very cute movie  
i mean the whole premise is that they go out  
and and they die  
and they have to  
right  
both of them are dead  
and they happen to meet in this this town um this this sort of city where you're set up  
you know they go  
and they decide if you can move up to the next level  
i don't know if you've ever read jonathan livingston [seagull]  
but   it's something like that  
they sort of move up to levels  
and and they have to decide whether or not they're good enough  
and as it turns out you know they meet there and fall in love and stuff like that  
so you can guess the rest of the plot  
it actually it's it's really funny because they run through you know what they have them do is sit down and see scenes of their lives  
and that's pretty good actually  
yeah  
and it's  
you actually have to go up there  
and you have a they have an attorney for you know attorney for you and attorney  
a defense and a prosecution  
and you know the [prosecutor's] job is to make sure you don't move up a level  
and the [defense's] job is to make sure that you you do you know  
it's uh it's a neat little story actually  
i was i was i went thinking it'll be okay not great  
and then i actually came away thinking it was really pretty good  
so  
yeah  
um  
the other world  
yeah  
um i'm i'm sure that it seems like  
it certainly would would explain the [preoccupation] with  
but i suspect it's always been a [preoccupation] with that sort of things  
right  
well  
well did you ever see um flatliners  
that's that's that's probably one of those ones that you know  
it's on video now i think  
probably probably worth seeing on video  
actually we really enjoyed it  
but it was also right along the same lines  
i mean   they they would go ahead and kill themselves for three or four minutes to see what happens  
almost  
yeah  
i i it's a little far fetched to   find a bunch of medical students doing it  
but   but it was um it was it was odd enough you know  
and they didn't just sort of make it silly  
it was you know it was done fairly well i think  
so actually i actually enjoyed that as well  
the story sort of keeps going and going  
yeah  
great  
well it was nice talking to you  
bye bye  
okay  
okay um  
the last movie i saw was the five [heartbeats]  
and i liked it a lot because it had a lot of music in it  
yeah  
it's   it's it's uh robert townsend movie  
um i i don't know all the actors or anything  
but it was just it was a lot of music a lot of old songs things like that  
um it's still out now uh  
it came out i guess about a month or about a month and half ago something like that  
it's about a black singing group  
it  
and uh it was called the [dells]  
and uh it was kind of like just about their   their life and their uh history and things like that and the way they went from from how they went from stardom to [nonstardom]  
and uh that was pretty good  
i enjoyed  
i saw dances with wolves  
have you seen that  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right now kevin costner i mean he's starring in everything  
he's doing the kennedy movie that's coming out um  
and there's one  
yeah  
yeah  
starring kevin costner  
and let me see  
what else  
um he's doing some other movie  
i can't  
i think robin hood that's it  
the robin hood coming out  
and he's going to be in also  
and let me see  
what else have i seen  
what have you seen  
oh i know what you're talking about  
my  
it's called [reviewing] my life or something like that  
yeah  
i didn't get to see that  
yeah  
that's it  
okay  
uh_huh  
one of my favorite movies it's not one that i haven't seen  
i  
it's not a late movie  
it's uh   fatal attraction  
it's probably my all time  
well not all time favorite  
but one of my favorites   that i can watch over and over  
no  
i never did  
i i heard it was really good  
i've never just haven't gone out to see it  
was that pretty funny  
yeah  
yeah  
somehow just never made it to see that  
but i need to see it  
yeah  
fatal attraction that i don't know why i like that movie so much  
i guess it was so much suspense  
and i like suspense  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
on that order  
certainly is  
and i liked the woman that played in that  
i forgot what her name is now  
anne [archer] she's the one she was the wife in fatal attraction  
yeah  
and she played in uh narrow margin which was a little more recent  
and that was kind of another suspense type [alfred] [hitchcock] type thriller  
that was good  
uh god i guess i haven't seen too many movies lately  
i need to  
yeah  
uh_huh  
somehow  
i mean it's hard for me to get to movies now because it's getting so expensive you know  
i'd i'd rather rent  
yeah  
yeah  
and that's just for a a bucket of popcorn you know  
yeah  
yeah  
god forbid you should want something to drink with it  
but uh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
easily  
and you're usually going to do you're usually going to go to a dinner go to dinner or something with that  
yeah  
it's almost more fun really  
yeah  
it's almost more fun really to rent movies you know just kind of stay at home maybe  
yeah  
that's true too  
yeah  
but then you can make your popcorn and you know be comfortable  
uh_huh  
well that's about all the movies i've seen recently  
uh_huh  
no  
i never did  
was that arnold schwarzenegger  
yeah  
yeah  
there's a movie i do want to see uh  
i haven't seen it  
what is it oh  
kiss before dying  
it looks it looks pretty suspenseful  
are you looking in the paper  
oh  
oh yeah  
that was great  
yes  
that was that that might be one of my all time favorites too  
that was an excellent movie  
it was pretty scary because i was visiting a v a hospital uh near to where i live  
and they were saying that some of the patients there you can't leave by themselves because they'll make a weapon out of anything you know  
out of a piece of paper they can kill somebody you know  
and this guy in silence of the lambs [hannibal] [lector] he was he was that kind of person  
and you  
they couldn't leave him alone  
and that's that's what was so scary about the movie you know   because he was such an awesome character you know  
it was it was really  
he was very dangerous  
but you were kind of on his side because he was so fascinating  
but but they couldn't leave him alone at all  
and they found out what happened when they did leave him alone one time  
but i won't tell you that just in case you see the movie  
uh_huh  
oh very good  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i'm not sure when it will be hitting video stores  
it should be a while yet though  
oh i haven't heard anything about it  
i  
but i don't like steven [seagal] things uh  
so  
he's had out for justice  
and there was one right before that with a similar title  
like uh i don't know some i don't know some macho title  
that's why i   i just don't like the  
yeah  
it is  
i i don't like that a lot  
i don't watch a lot of arnold schwarzenegger or anything like that either  
yeah  
yeah  
that might be good though  
that might be good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i guess i'm not fond of the action packed movie   where they're always chasing or fighting  
or you know  
i like the more movies that make you think  
no  
i haven't seen that yet  
and that's something i really should have seen  
was that good  
did you see it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
a friend of mine saw it  
and she said it was okay   you know  
it wasn't anything spectacular  
yeah  
the previews looked so good that i wanted to see it  
but i never did uh  

well i saw half of it  
and i remember i was in school i saw half of it  
and i fell asleep  
and everyone else watched it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i really need to go see the original one  
i'm sure it was a good movie  
i just i probably had a test that day or something  
i don't know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think i think though that movies are losing their [luster]  
i think movies are losing their [attractiveness] just to a lot of people  
just  
i think  
i don't know  
because of the cost  
and i think it it's just losing its [originality] or something  
i don't  
i can't pin [pinpoint] it  
but it doesn't seem like it's as big uh rage to get the movie theater as it used to be  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well let's start with you  
five [heartbeats]  
who who was in that  
okay  
when was it out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i saw that one  
that was pretty good  
uh that won best picture i think  
and costner got best director  
another kennedy movie huh  
one comes to mind here  
and i not sure about the name has meryl streep  
and um what was the name of that  
anyway the  
the premise of the story is that uh uh uh you go to a after you die you go to a place called judgment city  
and um anyway  
uh i can't  
the other the other actor uh  
yeah  
and uh  
defending your life  
defending your life  
and it's it's an excellent movie   uh  
it's pretty entertaining uh  
let's see  
what else have i seen lately um  
home alone  
okay  
yeah  


well did you ever see home alone  
that was a that was a good one too  
yeah  
it's pretty good  
and um  
i can't believe i'm just drawing a blank because i've  
uh_huh  
that kind of reminds me  
like uh did you ever see this is going way back uh jagged edge  
that was a good one too  
yeah  
but uh  
yeah  
that's  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i haven't seen a whole lot either  
but   i know i'm drawing a blank on what i've seen  
i know  
it's it's obnoxious   because you go in there and you spend six bucks a ticket  
but then you end up spending another six dollars on food  
and a pop you know  
so it's it gets pretty  
yeah  
like if i  
so if i take a date   it it cost me you know twenty bucks easy  
and uh i don't know  
i was going to say you you know you can find certain restaurants that are nice   and have good food for eat for thirty dollars  
yeah  
the problem is you always have to wait until they're out  
so that's what you're you're uh dealing with  
that's true  
that is true  
well  
i ought to open the paper here because i know i've seen a few that have have played  
but um i just can't come up with any names here  
haven't haven't been to one for a little while  
but um did you ever see kindergarten cop  
that was pretty good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but um  

yeah  
whose in that  
uh_huh  
another one i saw is called the object of beauty  
i don't recommend that   as much as uh defending your life  
but it was it was all right kind of funny  
um but um what else has been on and about  
yeah  
i'm trying to  
i wanted to get to the silence of the lambs  
i hear that  
oh did you see that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
i'll probably try to go to see it in a little while here  
but it's been out for a while  
have you heard anything on like out for justice  
has he had has he had very many other movies out  
because it's a macho movie  
speaking of that i think terminator two is supposed to be out  
i don't know  
i've enjoyed a lot of his movies  
uh they just they're action filled and a little bit of humor  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
did you ever see um um sleeping with the enemy  
i haven't i haven't heard much lately  
i just remember when it first came out that it had kind of mixed reviews  
yeah  
you expect more out of uh julia roberts though  
did you ever see the original f x movie  
oh okay  
because i was going to say i always enjoyed that  
i i uh i remember that movie  
and uh it was  
i mean i got in to it  
and uh   they have f f x two out  
i don't know if  
yeah  
it was one of those that has a lot of twists in it  
yeah  
it's it's it's it's uh  
i can't put it exactly on the lines of the jagged edge  
but it you know   kind of on that end you know  
you get these twists  
and it's usually pretty good  
but uh  
what's that  
yeah  
yeah  
that's probably true  
i i i  
just you see the same story lines different characters  
and   um i don't know  
it's it's it's hard to say  
an  
and i know i don't  
you know i don't keep up with it   you know  
but uh i don't try to  
just for that reason it is a it does cost a lot  
so why go out and see something right away you know  
you kind of wait  
and if something gets really good reviews maybe you'd finally go spend the twelve bucks   you know to go to it  
but um you know i haven't been to a to an opening for oh you know ages   just because  
okay  
well what movies do you like  
oh now i i like the turtles  
my little boy's four  
and he loves them  
oh that's okay  
how old are you all  
oh and you just don't have any yet  
okay  
well i've got two  
yeah  
my little girl is three months old  
and my little boy just turned four  
i had his birthday party yesterday  
but he's a turtle fanatic  
he even had turtle cake yesterday  
but i've been wanting to see turtle two  
is it as good as they say it is  
good  
ghost  
now ghost  
yeah  
i love tearjerker movies  
but that wasn't too bad on tearjerker  
but   it was oh it was good movie  
though i can see why it won so many oscars  
because that was just so good  
and i like demi moore  
no  
but i've been hearing a lot about it  
i we don't get to the video store very often  
and we don't have cable  
well we don't really want cable  
it's just you know glued to the t v all the time anyway  
so we get two channels down here  
i'm from kentucky originally  
and we used to get five channels without cable  
you know forty  
well i don't think you all have the same channels  
but here in texas we only get two channels  
and that's um  
do you watch soap operas  
okay  
you work then  
okay  
well we get the channel with young and the restless on it  
and then uh i think general hospital  
and that comes on different channel  
but that's all we get  
and that's no cartoons for my little boy  
but we've got a v c r and a lot of tapes  
and uh my husband is a movie fanatic  
oh what about total recall  
have you seen that  
that's good  
yeah  
it was violent  
i try to get away from that  
my little boy oh he loves [robo] cop  
and that movie i have to i'll fast forward it every time they come to the part where there is  
have you seen it  
the part where they're shooting mercy  
that oh that's horrible  
that is horrible  
and their their the language on that's filthy  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
um my husband bought me like um uh i think pretty in pink for my birthday  
with a  
wait a second  
i will in a minute kyle  
sorry  
uh he bought me pretty in pink  
just a second  
sorry  
now you're glad you ain't got a four year old  
it this is the first time he's interrupted my phone calls  
molly [ringwald]  
yeah  
it was cute  
but it wasn't  
i like the um sixteen [candles] or [sixteenth] birthday or  
yeah  
oh that was so good  
of course i was a teenager when i seen that  
and i loved it  
oh well if you like love stories it's sweet  
oh it's sweet  
it really is  
and that's a tearjerker  
it gets you  
i mean it makes you feel really sorry for her  
but it's hilarious too especially with that uh little guy in it  
oh he looks like little i don't know he looks like a little boy next door  
but he's sixteen  
oh it's a cute movie  
i can't remember his name  
he kind of looks like doogie [howser]  
don't know either  
he's got curly blonde hair  
he just a little [freckly] little boy  
yeah  
if i could remember the name i know you'd know his name because he's played in a few movies  
but uh  
okay  
i've heard about that  
but i can't remember it  
okay  
yeah  
julia roberts is good  
uh_huh  
wasn't it a murder mystery  
like sort of  
oh okay  
the yeah that's the one i wanted to see where he was on she was on a carnival at a carnival on a [ferris] wheel or something  
well did that come on t v  
or did it come out in the  
oh  
well i i think  
real good  
i want to see that  
yeah  
i seen the uh previews for it on t v down here  
but it's just been down here a couple weeks i think  
yeah  
a month  
well i know it hasn't been that long since i've seen the previews for it  
but yeah  
i wanted to see it  
her husband was a dark haired guy with a beard and [moustache]  
or  
no  
he [shaved] the beard off  
yeah  
oh i'd like to see that  
what about oh  
there was a  
we got one back here a while  
i want to see war of the roses too  
have you seen that  
you didn't  
i know  
well the only reason i know why it ended is on arsenio hall one night christopher reeves told   that you know  
i can't believe they killed them  
or or who was it  
christopher reeve or mike douglas  
yeah  
christopher reeve wasn't in it at all  
okay  
well arsenio hall is the one that jumped up and said that i can't believe they killed them  
and christopher reeve or mike douglas went after his throat you dummy  
so i know that they die  
but i haven't told my husband  
we've both been wanting to see it  
well we was uh teasing about you know splitting our house down the middle  
they did that didn't they  
and they marked off routes that they could go or something  
we've got two bathrooms  
but well  
actually if he takes  
my house kind of looks like two trailers put together  
and one bathroom is at the end of one side  
and one's in the middle of the other  
so we could do it  
no  
and he could climb out the window  

and we our whole house has you know  
every room leads to three rooms  
so we can you know  
yeah  
you can get around  
you just can't go out the front door honey  
sorry  
yeah  
that's coming back on too  
uh_huh  
huh i  
eerie feeling  
or i want to see it though  
i'd like to see that and uh the never ending story came out on disney this month i think  
i wanted to see that  
the never ending story  
it's a child's movie  
but oh it's good  
i enjoyed it  
yeah  
i do too  
and   yeah  
yeah  
and uh well it's about this little boy who uh  
i think he's up in a attic or some part of school  
he got locked in the school  
and he got scared  
but he starts [dreaming]  
and then uh he's saving the land of uh-oh  
it's been so long since i've seen it  
all i know all's i can really remember is him flying this great big dog this great big huge sheep dog sort of looking thing  
it flies through the air  
and he's trying to save the land from some [ooze]  
but it's really good  
i mean it sounds  
it it had uh fred [savage] in it  
no  
no  
no  
no  
no  
did you see that movie with fred [savage] in it though  
with uh-oh  
he had uh uh  
oh it was the princess [bride]  
you didn't see that  
that was cute  
that was real that was a good one  
i i like i like slapstick comedy  
yeah  
well i heard  
a friend of mine told me she got naked gun last night  
and she said that was hilarious  
two and a half  
it  
yeah  
i want to see that  
she said she rented it last night  
and said it was real good  
an  
now i seen that  
was that with that blonde  
she [pretended] to be the boss or something  
yeah  
i rented that one night by myself  
i was home alone  
did you see home alone  
gosh  
i like just about anything  
we i think the last one we saw was uh teenage mutant ninja turtles part two  
well we don't have any kids  
but we like them anyway  
um we're late twenties  
no  
oh gosh  
oh  
it was  
it was actually better than the first one i thought  
what's the last movie you saw  
oh  
we were just when when the topic came up we i was asking my husband right quick what's the last movies we saw  
he said well ghost and turtles  
i really liked it  
not too awful bad  
yeah  
did you see pretty woman  
oh gosh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh once in a while when i'm home  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
it does  
yeah  
i think you would really like pretty woman  
it was it was really a  
it made you feel really good  
it was just a happy movie  
yeah  
i saw that one  
i i was disappointed in it just because of how violent it was  
yeah  
i don't like that  
i don't see why they have to do that  
i mean   i mean everybody knows that it that the the language is there so they could just ignore it and you know   use different words instead i think  
but i i think lately pretty woman's been my favorite  
i went and bought the video  
i've probably seen it about fifteen or twenty times  
that's okay  
that's okay  
now   now i haven't seen pretty in pink  
that had um does that have   molly [ringwald]  
i think i think sixteen [candles] was the name of it  
i haven't seen it either  
i do  
oh gosh  
oh  
huh i don't know  

probably know him if i saw him  
i was just thinking another good one i saw not too long ago was um sleeping with the enemy  
that that's that's julia [roberts'] new movie  
yeah  
she's  
this one  
you know pretty woman was kind of a light comedy and a romance  
and and this one was a lot more dramatic  
well  
it was like uh it was a it was a mystery  
she disappeared from her uh husband who was abusing her  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
it came out in the theater  
and i think you know around here it's all ready quit playing  
but i don't i don't know if it's still playing any where else  
but it was it was   it was one of those that kept you on the edge of your seat  
oh okay  
because we saw it probably   four or five months ago  
yeah  
he's uh he was a real psycho in the movie  
it was it was scary  
oh yeah  
boy i i didn't like it  
no  
it was  
i didn't like the way it ended  
uh_huh  
might have been michael douglas oh that starred in it  
yeah  
it was michael douglas  
huh_uh  
it was i i it was it was weird  
it was a different movie from anything i've ever seen  
yeah  
yeah  
that would be kind of hard for us  
we've only got one bathroom  
i don't know  
that wouldn't be too bad  
get around  
well did you see fatal attraction  
i know it's going to be on on the on c b s tuesday night  
an and that's kind of what in a way you know how it kind of bothered you the way it ended and stuff  
that's kind of how war of the roses was  
parts of parts of war of the roses was funny  
but then other times it was like it was just deadly serious  
and it just left you with this kind of uneasy feeling you know  
i   i've heard about that  
but i don't know what it's about  
yeah  
i love disney movies  
i mean they're some of the best of that are made  
oh  
i don't think so  
nope  
i didn't see that  
so do i  
and a lot of times we'll go to rent a movie or something  
and and you're not sure whether it will be any good or not  
so sometimes we stick with the stuff we've heard more about than  
yeah  
now we saw that  
and and they're coming out with a sequel to it  
it was funny  
and and working girl is really good  
that was good  
yeah  
yes  
i did  
that that just reminded me of that  
did you like it  
so what movies have you seen  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i saw dances with wolves and uh home alone  
and  
yeah  
it is  
it is about a little kid that that his parents go off to paris  
and they they forget all about him  
the oldest daughter they take a head count and the oldest daughter counts one of the neighbor kids instead of  
and he is up in the attic asleep because he got in trouble  
so she made him go sleep upstairs  
and there is   there is a couple of [burglars] uh breaking into the houses in the neighborhood  
and uh  
yeah  
and he sets up traps for them all over the house  
uh he does  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well it is six dollars  
and then but you get um matinee prices  
but  
uh_huh  
well i think they are a lot better than they than they were  
well like um in the early eighties or the during the like the smokey and the bandit era  
when it was  
they  
i do not think they were very good during that time  
at least   there were not as many good ones  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and it was shocking at the end too  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
that is right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
especially jaws  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
just more of the same  
in one of them they have a mother shark uh destroy a whole uh [marina] and aquarium   which is kind of far fetched  
yeah  
uh_huh  
they hardly ever play music when a shark attacks somebody  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh every once in a while i go but it it has to be like somebody that i like  
or  
you know i did not i did not go see field of dreams when it was in the theatre because i did not know it was any good  
and then when it was i i found out it was kevin costner when it was on um i guess a b c the other week  
then i  
yeah  
and then i really liked it  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
it was really  
and then and then uh shoeless joe jackson really was a player  
i thought they made him up and then i found out you know after i saw the movie that they they started talking about that scandal  
and  
yeah  
when the when the anniversary came up  
that was around the time of anniversary you know  
and then   it was on the news  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and i wondered who it was too  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh i  
what is that  
invisible man  
uh no  
huh_uh  
uh did they make the movies after that  
or  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
okay  
it was   nice talking to you  
bye bye  
uh well i have uh seen dances with wolves which is probably the the best movie that i have seen lately  
uh i do not go out to films very often   so as far as out of the house  
so we do get a lot of videos that we bring in  
uh and i see some that way  
but uh i am not real current on films  
how about you  
i hear that is really good but i have not seen it yet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh cute  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh and he hears them or something  
and  
who wins  
oh great  
great  
yeah  
i had heard people talk about it  
and they say it was really cute but i had not seen it  
uh we usually wait  
and eventually it comes out on video  
and then we get it and see it that way  
and that is it  
movies are very expensive  
uh movie [theatres] here they are six dollars uh for evening performances  
and that is kind of steep  
i think  
i don't know  
how much is it in dallas  
yeah  
you can do that but it is difficult if you if you work or you know  
uh that is taking the middle of the afternoon  
and if i am looking for entertainment usually i i have more uh time in the evening than i do in the middle of the day to uh see things  
what do you think of movies in general  
as far as the as the trends  
uh_huh  
yeah  
did  
yeah  
the quality i think maybe has improved in that respect  
uh the only thing that disturbs me is that now they think they have to add just a little bit of sex and violence in order to get a a tougher rating which [suggests] that that you know it will be more [enticing] to the to the public  
and a lot of times it is added for no real uh valid reason  
uh which does not make  
and i think smokey and the bandit was a little bit like that  
uh but dances with wolves did not seem to have anything added  
it was just all legitimate kind of uh film  
and that is where reason why i suppose it won so many oscars uh  
because it really was good even though it is such a long movie  
you know they said oh people won't won't be interested in a three hour movie but it certainly gotten good [acclaim] everywhere it has gone  
oh oh yeah  
absolutely  
uh but much more true to life  
and i think that is that is the point  
uh they do not have to keep making up stuff if they want to make something good  
i hate sequels too  
i hate these uh you know number one two three four  
usually if a movie is good once is enough  
right  
that was on prime time television here uh recently at seven thirty in the evening  
and uh it was kind of shocking because that is a scary movie and children young children could see could have seen that movie   uh at that hour  
and i thought that you know that would not have been the sort of thing i would have wanted my children to see at that age uh i mean when they were young  
and here it was quite easily seen by anybody that turned on the t v  
uh which was a  
it was a good movie  
i mean it was well done but uh that is one reason why it was scary  
so but i do not know that i have seen any of the uh sequels to that  
i think one is enough  
uh  
yes uh_huh  
that is what people say  
oh  
yeah  
it  
just a touch  
well the whole movie is kind of far fetched  
but i mean the whole idea behind it is far fetched  
not not too often  
that has gotten to be a whole camp idea now though you know  
if you hear that music you know everybody knows what you are talking about  
it's funny  
well it sounds like neither one of us are real movie [buffs]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i saw it then too   yeah  
it was good  
it was very good  
but uh um uh see i have uh teenagers in my house  
and of course sometimes they rent movies and you know have friends over or something  
and sometimes movies are here that i did not i am not even aware that i could have seen you know  
because my family tells me that that that it had been actually in the house before  
but i had missed it  
but i did see it on t v  
and i thought it was good  
oh really  
uh_huh  
no kidding  
oh i did not realize that  
yeah  
uh you know the character that uh james [earle] jones played  
uh uh i teach in school  
and we are doing a book called invisible man by ralph ellison  
and i wondered if maybe he was patterned after him  
uh i do not know  
i had not heard anybody talk about it  
but uh he certainly could have been uh which was kind of interesting   you know someone who uh who was a real [activist] but then took up the cause uh kind of gave up you know because he did not think anything was happening  
and so uh it was kind of fun  
i do not know for sure  
but there are certain uh qualities that suggest it could be he  
because they were uh they were suggesting that this ben was something of a [recluse]  
that he had stopped writing and had stopped you know  
and that is true for ellison  
he he wrote that one book and a few [essays] and that is about it   and uh has pretty much dropped out of public life  
but he is still alive  
and that you know that is what makes it so interesting  
and that book have you ever read that book   invisible man  
invisible man by ralph ellison  
it is an incredible book  
it uh really is very very interesting  
i highly recommend it  
uh the  
yeah  
the movie  
the  
in  
field field of dreams came out after uh that novel  
so it could easily have been patterned after him  
but the the movie did not have anything to do with with the story that i am talking about  
but  
i just thought the the uh author could have been patterned after that uh  
i mean that character could have been patterned after him or someone like him certainly  
sort of interesting  
so well i guess we have talked probably our time limit haven't we  
okay  
very good  
it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
so tell me about china cry  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
huh  
huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh interesting story  
i uh i don't even remember seeing that advertised  
and it was probably here and gone fairly quickly  
oh that recent  
oh i see what you mean  
uh_huh  
well uh i guess what i what i saw most recently and luckily i saw it only a week ago so i'd remember   remember it well was uh sort of light by comparison  
uh my husband and i had this great desire to go see a comedy  
and and uh we ended up going to see green card  
green card  
and uh he chose it  
and uh it's got this wonderful french actor who's  
it was his like his  
and he's been a star in france and a wonderful actor who we've enjoyed for years  
but he's never made an american film  
this was his american film [debut]  
and he speaks very broken english  
and basically he played uh a frenchman who married an american girl uh in a marriage of convenience   so that he could get his green card which is what an alien needs to work in this country  
and uh because she could claim she was married she could get uh an apartment or a condominium in a very exclusive building in new york that had a garden an an an outside garden which is very unusual there  
so she was a [horticulturist]  
and that was sort of her dream  
of course you know they got married  
and they never saw each other again  
except except fate through them together  
and the immigration and [naturalization] service uh started investigating  
so they had to get back together and get their stories straight  
and and she was a very [svelte] sophisticated urban new yorker  
and he was a a poor frenchman who had grown up on the on the streets and sort of pulled himself up by his [bootstraps] and claimed to be a composer  
but there was no proof whatsoever that he really was  
he'd been working in a restaurant when they met  
and uh they had to learn all about each other basically   in a in a weekend  
and uh it was  
you knew what was going to happen of course   that they would fall in love  
well they fell into like at any rate  
and   and when they went to the [query] or [inquisition] or whatever uh they did perfectly  
and then he said something because his english was so poor on for the most part  
he he was so proud of himself for giving all the correct answers that that on the last one he said oh i never remember that answer  
and that [clued] the investigator that he had memorized a series of answers  
so uh  
okay  
okay  
china cry was basically the the true story written by this this lady who had uh was a native a native chinese uh uh who was raised by christian parents  
and her her time frame was prior to the nineteen forty nine revolution  
although she herself had never really accepted jesus or gone through any of the other uh christian uh portions of of the faith repentance [baptisms] et cetera et cetera she had always felt a very strong uh leaning in this direction  
and whenever the cultural revolution of nineteen forty nine occurred and most churches were either banned or their all the [clergy] and so forth were killed or or imprisoned or and the property [confiscated] she was safe because she had you know not officially joined the the christian movement  
so anyway she as she grew up towards maturity her parents well  
her dad was a doctor  
and and he was rather well you know rather well to do in the old regime  
and the the the the communist chinese didn't like this at all  
you know the [bourgeoisie] was was was definitely out of uh style then  
everybody was back to a [commonality] of one  
and so they kept picking at him picking at his at her mother and uh finally uh started picking on her   and getting her to you know  
they were starting to uh accuse her of of of uh crimes and atrocities before the the revolution and and had her write her own story over and over and over  
uh and the uh the major point of the movie was that that she had uh married this this chinese fellow and was with child when they started this mass court  
now i think i'm leaving out a portion  
she she went through college and graduated very high up in her class and had uh gotten a job as as an instructor  
and they had her teaching or were starting to have her teach history for the soldiers   when the they decided that that she needed to start [recanting] of all of her pre uh regime crimes as it were  
being a child you know  
so they kept on and on at at her  
and in the meantime she and her husband uh were were expecting a child their own child  
and uh the the people kept [harassing] her over you know over a period of months  
and finally they uh carried her uh out into the [courtyard] to to either really to shoot her or to go through the [motions] of of shooting her uh with by firing or you know executing her by firing squad  
and uh the lord just said no  
this is not going to happen even though this lady has not really you know  
she's she's one of mine  
she is not going to die  
and uh the the soldiers were [blinded] when they shot  
and she her life was [spared]  
and this this frightened the the uh the [commandant]  
and so he called this kind of stuff off and just put her in the labor camp  
well uh and course here's this this woman who is heavy with child dragging rocks around  
well she she put in for going going to uh  
and her husband had escaped to hong kong uh  
and then she put in to go see him  
and over time she uh uh  
finally through her [perseverance] and writing enough letters to enough different people embarrassed enough of the the middle uh bureaucracy that they finally let her go  
and of course she had to walk  
you know they they stripped her of everything practically besides the the clothes on her back  
and uh so she so she went across the border to her husband and another and other child that they'd already had   uh to freedom  
and they knew that she wasn't going to come back  
but yeah she did years later when the uh [liberalization] you know in real life   [liberalization] of china happened  
and uh she was not [persecuted] or anything else like that  
yes  
it was  
uh very moving too  
well it was within oh ninety days  
yeah  
no  
i mean it's it was it was advertised over a period of about ninety days  
but it wasn't  
uh they didn't have it in uh too awfully many movie houses  
but it was it was in the  
it had large uh uh uh press release  
okay  
uh_huh  
green card  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just then  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so what movies have you seen lately  
oh  
well see that's something i want to see  
that's on my list to see  
oh okay  
oh did you  
oh  
see that's also on my list  
a disturbing movie  
how do you mean  
right  
a [switcheroo] huh  
right  
when the shoe is on the other foot and see how it  
oh  
because that that just reminds me of you know like back in school  
and you know the girlfriends just taking off for a day or something   just getting in trouble and probably not that much trouble  
but  
um yeah  
before we found the shopping malls that's what we did  
yeah  
well i'll have to put that i'll have to keep that on my list then  
oh  
scandalous  
i can imagine  
i guess she does it for the social value of showing you what trash is huh  
huh  
you just had to find it  
you had to wade through it and find it  
you never quite got to  
all i know about that woman is that she's an incredible [marketeer]  
yeah  
and she's rich  
and she  
yeah  
so  
she knows how to twist this around huh  
well okay  
see we're getting back to last year  
that's probably the last movie i saw um dances with wolves  
i just adored it  
how can i tell you  
um a couple years ago i guess well maybe ten years ago i i had read bury my heart at wounded knee  
and   so you know just the general theme of the whole movie was um pretty  
i mean i really liked it a lot  
i mean it was a real consciousness raiser i guess  
um and i only bring up wounded knee because that was what ten years ago you read and and understood you know about the american pop indian population  
and then everything went away for a couple years  
and now it's back again  
and you know it's sort of a popular view of um what happened way back then  
of course no one will ever know  
really i don't  
well who knows  
i mean it it it sort of showed like two different types of tribes  
like one was a [warring] tribe  
and the other one was uh vegetarian kind of you know feel good tribe   you know sort of thing  
so there possibly were because you know you always have conflict in the world  
nobody can get along [peacefully]  
oh i see  
yeah  
huh  
well i think so  
i um i have come to respect a little bit more the uh you know what went on here  
but but who knows how it's supposed to all end  
you know on the on the broad scope i mean um like if uh it it it had a much bigger thing i  
meaning to me  
i think about you know just the meaning of um the freedom of this country and and what that really meant  
and that was taking over somebody else's freedoms   and sort of [trampling] that  
and uh so you know it it meant something bigger i think  
but still it was a  
i loved the buffalo scene  
and i thought kevin costner was just  
i got a little sick of his mug on the screen every   three minutes  
but he's the director you know  
um but yeah  
i i just thought it was a really interesting intense film  
intense i think is the word for it because three hours went by really fast  
yeah  
ate a lot of popcorn  
did it really  
huh  
it made you think  
maybe well maybe that was um  
but there are no answers you know  
that that can make you [crabby] yes  
really  
that's true  
but it it's  
they sort of candy coated the western story for many years  
and um you know when the truth oh well  
it always balances out one way or the other   once you get the whole story  
but  
have you seen any other movies   because you sound like you see a lot  
oh okay  
oh there you go  
oh  
oh  
really  
oh  
oh i'll have to write that down  
wow  
i'll have to write that  
have you have did you see texasville  
are you into   larry mcmurtry  
yeah  
um i i read a lot of larry mcmurtry books  
and texasville is just like that  
it's like very peculiar circumstances   and very peculiar things that people do with each other  
it's it's you know  
and it's just sort of a  
well i saw um lately i've seen soap dish  
which was a  
and that was a lot of fun  
it was kind of a silly little film about soap operas and things  
yeah  
yeah  
it was it was okay  
it was not um not a wonderful film  
but it was i mean it was it was cute but not the biggest laugh i've seen  
i saw thelma and louise   a couple of days ago and really liked that  
actually i saw it twice because i liked it so much  
and it's very it's really disturbing but a good movie  
well it was  
um let's see  
the um  
it's it's different  
it's kind of it's an action adventure kind of you know shoot them up kind of film  
but it's with women in it instead of men  
so that's kind of a   that's kind of a twist on the normal thing  
and it made me think a lot about you know  
you would [applaud] bruce willis in die hard if he was doing this  
but you might not be so   you know so encouraging   of susan [sarandon] and then gena davis when they do it  
so that was kind of interesting  
i've  
but i really enjoyed it  
so i  
yeah  
that's kind of what it was  
right  
they had started out with that  
then they got into lots of trouble  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i also saw that madonna movie  
it's truth or dare  
and that was pretty scandalous  
yeah  
it was kind of  
yeah  
madonna   she's pretty trashy  
and so it was it was interesting  

well i think she kept saying that uh  
they talked about her  
it it was a film of her concert um tour she had taken through all all around the world  
and they were all to her at the [vatican] city and wouldn't let her perform in rome  
and she   kept saying that her show was not garbage  
it had a social message to it  
and  
right  
we never quite believed that  
so  
i thought that was pushing it a little bit  
but she  
she is  
she's rich  
she's smart at what she does  
she knows how to do that  
yeah  
what did you think about dances with wolves when you saw it  
really  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
i know  
i was  
i wondered if uh the tribes that they represented the tribe that was the the evil tribe if they were really as bad as it made them to be  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i wonder  
i thought  
because they made a big deal about how this this film was such a big leap for the the people who who were the ancestors of the this indian tribe  
and that you know that was so wonderful that they done that  
and they uh uh i wonder how the ancestors of this [warlike] tribe if they were offended by the film  
if it  
you know you didn't   hear any press about that  
i thought it was a very interesting movie  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
i know the  
well that's good  
that was that was it was it was good  
i looked at my watch only a few times   which is a good thing  
but it put me in a really it put me in a really bad mood  
i don't know why  
yeah  
we  
there were three of us who went  
we were just all really grouchy when it was over  
so we decided that may be the mark of a good film  
it made us think  
and so  
we were grouchy  
we felt guilty for being  
i know  
and we we had nothing to do with it  
we were not responsible  
but we still felt the thick blame for   what had gone on  
we could have  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well  

i do  
i'm just out of school  
so i've seen   a lot of  
don't have a job  
so i shouldn't go see movies all the time  
um i rented a good movie um called [cinema] [paradeso]   which is an italian movie   which is probably the best movie i've seen ever  
it was just   wonderful  
it's uh story about a little boy in a italian a little italian village  
and he um owns a um  
or he works in a a movie theater and it it helps the [projectionist]  
there's a little oh an old man who's the [projectionist]  
and he [befriends] this old man  
and then it just tells about their friendship that lasts through all these years  
and it's just  
i mean if you don't mind reading subtitles  
i thought i had to kind of get beyond that  
those little you know  
reading the little words at the bottom of the screen  
but um oh i just laughed and cried  
and   i really loved it  
that was a a great one  
and other than that i  
no i   i hadn't  
i had read um the last picture show  
and but that's out on video now  
and i haven't seen it  
but i was interested in reading texasville before i saw the movie  
did you like it  
right  
uh_huh  
what was one of the latest ones that you've seen actually  
uh  
right  
the last two years i have done more theater movie going than i have actually watched videos at home  
i've uh   uh become available to come and go more often  
so i said hey it's worth it  
i'll just go at the matinee hour  
and i can see what i please  
it's no more costly than renting one  
the last  
see i went about two or three weeks ago and saw f x two  
and that is a really good movie if you like special effects  
kind of gory and lots of you know   action  
um do you know that i don't follow [performers]  
i don't follow actors  
some i know  
some i don't  
uh and he was  
the guy the guy that played in it he was not the star but the one that played in it that i liked best was the one who was in uh-oh the one about the old people  
cocoon  
uh_huh  
he was a blond haired [heavyset] alien in cocoon  
i don't i don't know what his name is  
yeah  
at any rate i also saw not long ago once around  
that was with richard dreyfuss  
and that one was just a very [poignant] story  
it it it had people  
it was it was you know a lot of people said it was a really funny movie  
but it was   a very it was a [poignant] humor  
and there was it was like uh uh steel [magnolias]  
the characters played very well off one another  
and there was humor involved  
but the story was a very dramatic story  
and i enjoyed it very much  
what are some others that you have seen lately  
oh whoa  
yes  
that's one i can watch   over and over and over again  
it sure was  
and you know the second time you see it you understand more [subtleties] in it  
there are a number of good movies like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
you don't work  
okay  
well you are going to have to find a mother's day out and have him call in sick one day  
that's right  
there's nothing wrong with that  
go in the early hours  
it's a matinee  
it's not crowded  
and the price is as reasonable as renting a video  
and that's the way i do it  
and i go quite frequently  
if you are going to be planning on doing that  
now i was [warlock] too which is supposed to be the story of a uh [witch] hunt that is you know [magically] shot into the present time  
and the first five minutes or ten minutes of the movie was i was very well persuaded to walk out very well persuaded  
there was more gore than i was interested in seeing  
but as the movie settles down to a comfortable action uh i can't really that it would have gotten more than a star and a half from me either  
but   uh the action was comfortable  
and of course i enjoyed those good guy bad guy type conflicts things  
so i enjoyed that movie after the first few minutes of gore  
and there were some others  
but they were done a little more [tastefully]  
but uh in the first scene the [warlock] chopped off a guy's finger because he wanted the ring and then   bit his tongue out and spit it off in the [omelet]  
and i could not handle that  
i said whoa i'm glad i have not had dinner  
then uh i saw awakening  
that's a wonderful wonderful job by robin williams and peter de niro  
i uh i uh  
robert de niro  
what did i say peter  
i said robert de niro  
and he has done a really good job of [characterizing] the uh disabled person  
and of course robin williams always just has a an air about him that you can't help but enjoy what he is doing  
even when he's sad you know you great faith that he will get happy again  
and then oh let's see there's a couple or three that i would like to go see before they go into videos  
i guess i can wait another month  
and they will be videos  
one is silence of the lambs  
i've heard a lot about that one  
they say if you really want to be uh you really want some suspense that's the one to see  
and i understand that's a sequel to an earlier movie that showed about two weeks ago on television uh  
uh_huh  
and then thelma and louise  
i think it's time we had a lady abuse the guys movie  
it's about time for one of those  
i want to go see that  
and i'm going to try to get in dances with wolves  
uh_huh  
i've heard it's wonderful too  
but i it's just that they are both very long   uh movies  
and the matinee starts before i can get away from work  
and after after that i get involved in other things and don't want to   don't want to go back  
uh_huh  
you know i saw that  
and i really i cannot remember too much about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's right  
i remember now  
yeah  
i remember  
uh_huh  
well i've had a hard time enjoying harrison ford in anything since the indiana jones movies  
i think he ought to stay indiana jones  
i realize that he would like his career to develop  
but i don't want to see him in other things  
but uh i tell you sean connery in the hunt for red october  
i i never did care for him as in the james bond movies  
i don't know  
he was too  
yeah  
i didn't care for the type of movie  
but he was always slick and greasy and seemed to be [conceited] and had more women than he needed  
and i didn't like him  
but he has really developed into a marvelous character actor as he has come older  
oh yeah  
yeah  
he does  
and there is just a there's a  
i don't know uh  
i think that beard gives him a look that he is always [grinning] whether he is or not  
and he he has that merry look about his eyes that looks like he stays in [mischief] all time  
and i enjoy those  
and i enjoy some of the michael j fox movies  
i didn't care too much for the last one either  
it just was not enough to it  
uh  
no  
no  
no  
it was called uh hard way where he was an actor trying to portray   trying to portray portray a policeman  
and that  
oh i i think we rented pretty woman   a couple weeks months ago  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i have not done that one  
i don't know if i have even heard of that one  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
cocoon  
okay  
oh okay  
uh i think i know who you are talking about though  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i'm trying to think uh  
just the other night on h b o we watched the hunt for red october   again  
and that's one that  
yeah  
i was going to read while it was on  
but then when it started i just couldn't you know read  
that was a really good movie  
yeah  
there's quite a few uh movies out now that i would like to go see  
my husband   is not a real big movie [goer]  
and i guess more than anything that is why we don't go  
plus by the time you get a baby sitter and then pay to go to the movies   it just gets pretty expensive  
no  
i stay at home  
yeah  
go during the day  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh  
robert de niro  
i think you said peter  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know i think i read about that too  
yeah  
oh you haven't  
i've heard that is wonderful  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've heard that's  
we uh we uh rented the other one  
i was trying to think of the other one that we had rented lately uh was presumed innocent with uh harrison ford  
i guess he's in there  
and i thought that was really good  
it was the one where he was a defense  
uh not defense  
he was a  
and there was a murder of one of the women that was in the the d a office  
and then he ended up being accused of it  
yeah  
so i mean it really kind of had a turn at the end when you found out who it was  
i was never into those movies either  
yeah  
i thought he looked real good with a beard too  
yeah  
what was the last one  
i'm trying to think  
uh the last  
like back to the future then was the last one  
oh okay  
trying to   yeah  
okay  
um the last movie that i have seen  
it's been it's been a couple of months  
i saw um sleeping with the enemy   and flatliners  
those were the last two that i've seen  
flatliners  
oh  
oh it was just  
well someone had  
i had seen the advertisement for flatliners on t v  
and i thought i'd like it  
and then uh one of my friends who went to see sleeping with the enemy and she told me to go  
it was good  
so that's why i saw that one  
no  
i haven't gotten to see you know any real recent ones  
i like comedies better than i do dramas  
uh_huh  
did you care for sleeping with the enemy  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i didn't care for the movie myself  
i didn't really care for the movie either  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well okay  
on likewise then did you see pretty woman  
do you enjoy that one  
uh_huh  
oh i haven't even heard of that one  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i really liked pretty woman  
you know i just  
well you just kind of went with it  
like you said you had to accept the beginning of it and just kind of go  
yeah  
but um flatliners now it's a drama  
and i don't usually like them  
and i really enjoyed it  
i um i don't know  
it was kind of  
it made you think a lot   i think  
did you see ghost  
okay  
now did you care for that one  
uh_huh  
see now i didn't  
i thought it was an okay movie  
but it wasn't something that i would enjoy seeing twice or three times  
i didn't think so um  
i really didn't care for the ending of it  
i thought it was just of like you didn't know this was going to happen  
when you know  
but um i don't know you know  
well of course uh a bunch of girls had told me and warned me  
and they said oh it's a real tearjerker and da da da da da  
meanwhile i sat through the movie and said well when are you when are you supposed to start crying you know  
i didn't really   uh i didn't really find it to be a tearjerker  
um if i see them more than once i see them on video  
i never pay to see one more than once   you know  
but like you said i i enjoy the comedies a lot better  
in fact that's where i've seen most of my movies have been on video  
you see it on video just as soon as it is on the movie screen  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
i saw one it was a drama also  
and i can't think of the name of it now that um  
it was a book before it came out in a movie  
and it was it it was a drama  
it wasn't a comedy uh   no  
i wanted to see that  
i didn't get to  
oh really  
uh_huh  
well um what movies are showing down there now  
yeah  
that's pretty much what i do  
i i know for sure that that one about  
what was that one about bob  
i think it's just  
yeah  
i think it's just playing now up here  
yes  
i saw that one  
what was the second one  
i didn't see that one  
did you see those because of uh julia roberts or for uh the subject matter of the two  
uh_huh  
well i've uh  
i saw sleeping with the enemy  
and i um i've seen uh well just recently um what about bob  
well that one is uh it's cute but kind of far out comedy   yeah  
i uh am not one for the uh  
i don't need the suspense movies or the   the movies with lots of uh the horror movies with uh trying to shake you out of your chair  
um i'm not sure  
i uh i saw it and uh because my wife wanted to see it  
uh but on the other hand i'm not sure i would have gone otherwise  
and having gone uh  
well it really wasn't on a theme that i was uh uh that into  
or as i say i prefer the light movies that uh  
my style of entertainment is is comedy uh primarily   and then into action films  
what  
yeah  
you kind of have to like to be uh drawn to this point where you aren't sure what's going to happen  
uh yes  
uh it was interesting  
but i felt that one was a bit farfetched   uh in that  
well i'm trying to think of the other one i saw recently the one on um defending your life  
well that was one where uh  
it's kind of like  
to me it's somewhat like pretty woman  
the the story line um  
if you accept a few of the basic starting points i guess the rest falls in place  
uh it was hard to accept that uh this uh multimillionaire [wheeler] dealer would uh would you know find himself and allow himself to get into that situation  
yeah  
it's sort of a modern cinderella type of story  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh that was  
i enjoyed that one  
i in that i i guess i i hate to be too surprised in a movie  
and in that one you could you could pretty well guess where it was   going to end up  
you weren't sure exactly how it would get there  
but you knew where it would end up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well whenever she starts crying  
well do you go to many movies more than once  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well these days it's uh  
well if you don't with some of the movies if you don't go to them within the first four weeks the movie may have uh left town never to show up again until it comes back in video  
so uh unless a movie is popular and stays around uh you probably will see it on video these days more likely than at the movie  
so we have um  
well i think just most people have v c r now  
and we probably watch twice as many movies at home   as we do at movie theaters  
did you go to dances with wolves  
i at least what i hear on that one that it's coming out a second time in a in a longer version   even though it was a long movie  
it's sort of the [uncut] version  
at least that was some of the rumors  
we'll have to see because it's uh there was some talk about that  
i  
maybe it will come out this fall  
there  
we're sort of in the middle of the summer um season of a lot of new movies coming out  
but then there's these um periods like early fall before christmas or early spring when there's sort of a quiet period where if you bring something out again it uh will increase the revenues from the movie  
oh i i'd actually have to get a newspaper out  
my approach to movies is i kind of hear about them uh  
i keep track of them a little  
but you know ask me to name the ten that are out there right now  
and i'd have to say uh i uh i don't know  
i i just look at the newspaper before i decide to go  
and  
uh it's kind of   where's bob or what about bob  
yeah  
because some of them they uh they'll start in one area of the country  
and if they it's  
well what movies have you seen recently [valerie]  
oh we haven't seen that one yet  
oh it wasn't that good  
the most recent one that uh my wife and i have seen was the city [slicker]  
that was excellent  
it was   just a really a really funny movie  
at the same time it had a story line about people trying to find themselves  
there were parts that were sad  
i mean it just ran the gamut of emotion  
and but it was just all around entertaining  
uh it's still on to the best of my knowledge  
oh  
uh it's i think it's less than two hours  
we we rented one recently that seemed to go on forever  
yeah  
but this one it was fairly long  
i i'm guessing probably an hour and forty five minutes maybe  
but excellent acting by billy crystal and   [bruno] [kirby]  
uh who was the  
oh jack [palance] had an excellent part in there as the old cowboy  
so we really enjoyed that  
yeah  
i think that uh i can highly recommend that movie this to see  
yeah  
uh we generally rent a couple a week  
uh in order to get a decent movie to have on a weekend you've got to rent it on thursday  
they get   they get taken up at the store  
so  
we will rent two or three movies on thursday  
and uh with luck you'll have one or two that are good  
most of them are a coin flip  
yeah  
yeah well  
quite frequently we have our grandchildren on the weekends  
and uh we'll try to rent something that they can see as well as something else that we can see  
and   uh   uh generally try to stay in the at least p g range  
the uh the oldest is nine  
the youngest is three  
he doesn't really pay attention  
the five year old doesn't have the attention span either  
but the the nine year old will watch anything that's on t v  
so  
yeah  
my wife took uh i think the kids to see that one  
but   we can generally find something at the store for them to watch  
the  
uh-oh we saw this movie  
presumed innocent was the one we rented uh   last weekend  
harrison ford  
it's uh he is a prosecuting attorney  
and uh another prosecutor in the a woman prosecutor in there is murdered  
and he's trying to find it  
but course it's one of these with a twist where it looks like he's the one that wound up killing her  
so it's   and it's an extremely long movie  
it's it's over two hours long  
which  
uh my wife she likes the suspense movies  
i enjoy   them to a degree  
save that for another day  
yeah  
yeah  
i think you it's uh it's something i think you would enjoy  
yes  
it it's like most suspense movies  
what was  
it was on t v recently uh fatal attraction  
it's one that once you've seen it once and uh the suspense there is not really you really can't see it again  
so you know all the story and who did what   and when it happened  
so   once once you seen one that's a suspenseful type movie like that then it's it's not good for a second watching particularly  
at least i don't think so  
i don't know  
we've watched weekend at bernie's any number of times  
it's just slapstick comedy  
sit there and laugh  
and my one grandson and i  
my wife can't understand it  
but we like bill and [ted's] excellent adventure   which is another funny one  
yeah  
we like to laugh  
i i have a theory  
i like movies for entertainment  
i don't want to   uh go away depressed   from watching a movie  
life's depressing enough  
well i've certainly enjoyed talking with you  
okay  
bye  
have a nice weekend  
okay  
bye  
let's see  
the last one we saw was thelma and louise  
well don't bother  
well oh from a woman's point of view and it was very uh [chauvinistic] as far as women go  
uh it was it was entertaining  
but yeah  
i don't think the general audience would would go for it  
how was that  
that is one i've been dying to see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and  
how long did that movie run  
but i mean time wise how long  
was it   two hour  
or  
uh_huh  
okay  
okay  
that always seems to happen when you rent them you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and uh it  
was it oh good  
uh_huh  
oh great  
oh well i'm looking forward to seeing that one  
that was next on our list  
so uh  
okay  
okay  
good deal  
good deal  
do you rent movies very often  
or  
right  
right  
that's exactly right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
and we usually have oh we don't get out as much as we like  
we have two children  
so we occasionally get out to the movies  
but uh it's it's fun it's a fun thing to do to get out and   be entertained for once  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what ages are they  
have you found   trouble finding movies for them  
or  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh-oh uh oh yeah  
they have been doing that  
we've been waiting for a a good movie out this summer for the kids to see  
the last one they saw was home alone  
and uh they enjoyed that  
but uh i missed that one  
my husband took the kids to see that one  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's a good deal  
okay  
let me think   if i have rented that one  
harrison ford and how does the story line go  
oh okay  
we haven't seen that one  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
oh gosh  
uh_huh  
i think that's the one i wanted to pick up the other day  
and then my husband wasn't going to be able to watch it with me  
so i thought i better save that one for another day  
yeah  
because i think he'd like that one  
you enjoyed that one then  
uh_huh  
okay  
well that's a good one to put on the list  
uh_huh  
right  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't think too many of them are anymore  
it's it's a shame  
but uh  
i know  
oh no  
oh  
oh gosh  
yeah  
we've heard about that one  
but we haven't seen that one either  
so well it sounds like you and your grandson like the same kinds of movies  
oh god  
right  
right  
right  
i agree  
i agree  
that's for sure  
well you too jim  
thanks for [punching] in  
and uh  
i hope you see a good movie soon  
okay  
bye bye  
yeah  
well uh it's funny when i tried   to make the call the other days  
i thought  
i hadn't seen anything since dances with wolves  
but today i went to see regarding with henry  
it was really good  
we  
uh jeff [wariner] just got out of the hospital  
and uh jeff and [deeanna] went and another friend in the neighborhood  
and uh we all liked it  
we had both moms and uh fifteen year olds and a twelve year old  
and   everyone enjoyed it  
and uh  
yeah  
well my son had gotten to see a lot of movies this summer on choir tour and   visiting friends and one thing and another a lot of the ones i had wanted to see  
and so since he had this friend up from houston uh and his friend had already seen so many and i thought they decided on this and i thought well i want to see this one too  
so we uh   i  
finally it's my first summer movie  
yeah  
oh was that good  
cause  
yeah  
well i want to see that and city slickers both  
i love   comedies  
but that's what i was  
oh was it  
oh  
oh well good  
i'm i'm glad to hear that because they  
uh_huh  
well i don't i don't know if you got to see weekend um at bernie's   that was out a couple of year's ago  
they had a free showing at the berkeley um united artist  
and i don't know who was here or whether jay called a friend  
and we didn't think we'd have much chance of getting in  
but we thought we'd try it you know free movie  
it was so funny and it sounds like uh what you were just describing soapdish too  
i mean we just we hurt by the time we came out  
and the whole theater was hysterical  
and it's just it's just goofy  
i mean it's uh  
if you have a chance to rent it at least  
or it should be out on t v i would think  
um cause it's it's just a fun summer light comedy  
make your [cheeks] hurt laughing  
especially in the theater it was contagious you know  
i i imagine the way soapdish was but with   everyone laughing  
well i'm glad you did that before your surgery  
yeah  
yeah  
oh gosh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
that was one uh jay got to see with a friend  
and so i  
and to try and uh try and find time it's hard uh with [jim's] schedule too just to get a time that we can both go  
and uh i'm holding out for city slickers for the two of us because uh we had friends that went to see that and said you know it's just perfect for our age group  
and because i think he he needs a comedy too  
uh and that's what he would have liked to have seen regarding henry too  
but knew that uh  
we've we've got a lot of company this summer which is wonderful  
we're really enjoying it  
but some of the different things we're doing uh   there's just not a time enough time to do it all  
and he said well realistically   you know he knew he couldn't get them all in  
but uh jay really liked robin hood  
um when the choir group went to see [backdraft] and they thought that was uh it was funny cause he sounded like the critics  
he said you know the plot line and the characters uh you know aren't real big  
but the the fire scenes and the you know   that action part is fantastic  
but he thought robin hood was great  
it was real different then you'd expect  
but   but he enjoyed it  
and so  
yeah  
me too  
and   yeah  
i really uh like him a lot which is why dances with wolves was the last movie we had seen   for several months  
but  
it was  
i uh  
in fact uh a friend from germany was visiting in march  
and we wanted we didn't ran out of time we wanted to take him to see it  
we were going to sit through it again cause we really wanted him to see it too  
uh i just thought that was terrific  
and i really enjoy harrison ford which is one of the reasons i wanted to see  
and he's very good in regarding henry  
that's not an easy part to play i i don't think  
yeah  
that's at that one won't your sides  
um it  
was this the first time you got to see one hundred and one dalmatians  
or  
uh_huh  
you ready  
okay  
what have you seen lately  
oh i'm dying to see that  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
oh well i am just dying to see it  
i went to dinner with some friends last weekend  
and they said get a baby sitter  
and we'll all go see regarding henry  
and i said ooh i want to see it so bad  
oh  
yeah  
oh my  
well let me see  
was it  
well we went to see one hundred and one dalmatians last weekend  
and that may be  
no  
right before i went in the hospital my girlfriend said come on  
we're going to the movies  
and we won't  
well she goes all the time  
but i go maybe once every couple of months  
and when i go i go see two at a time  
so we went to see soapdish  
and  
oh hysterical  
we laughed so hard  
it was just you couldn't hear half the [dialogue] because everyone in the audience was laughing   so hard  
yeah  
that's the other one that we went to that night  
and my face hurt so bad   from laughing   because i love billy crystal  
and course growing up on on the back of a horse you know and being on ranches and stuff so much of that was so true  
and i was absolutely rolling in the [aisles]  
it was so funny  
both of them were great  
oh they are are  
we just laughed so hard  
and like i said with city i mean with soapdish it is so [cornball]  
and it is so [overacted] that you're just hysterical   you know  
just they just carried it off   to the tee  
no  
how neat  
shoot  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i think it is  
i think it is  
yeah  
oh gosh  
i never laughed  
and people were just screaming and [applauding]  
and you know it was just hysterical  
oh me too because i don't even know if i could live through it now  
i mean i'm getting around real good  
and i'm just still real sore  
and today i was i course i went back to work two weeks after uh  
but see i don't have permanent work  
i right now i'm working with a temporary agency  
and so the second week i was out of the hospital i went up and worked half day on the computers cause you can learn all the software for free  
oh so i went up to do wordperfect cause that seems like that's what everybody wants  
and i was up there half a day and came home and collapsed  
and then they called me to see if i wanted to work a day  
and i said yeah  
and i went  
and of course it took me the whole weekend to recover from that  
and uh i worked about three days a week ever since two to three days a week  
and so i went to my doctors last thursday  
and this was my fourth week checkup  
and he said well gosh you're just healing really well  
i just can't get over this  
he says in two weeks you can go back to doing your crazy normal things  
if you want to play ball you can go play ball  
he says now i'm not going to say you're going to feel like playing ball  
but you can   if you want to  
and uh you know he was teasing me  
and he says yeah  
you'll be out there [waterskiing]  
i can just see it now  
and uh he says so you just take it easy for two more weeks  
you've only got two more weeks  
i said okay fine i i will i will  
whatever you call easy i'll do it you know  
but and i've been out trying to find a job because this is just not cutting it  
and so i don't i'm real glad that we didn't go see those funny ones when i was when i'm still sort of on the sore side  
but  
well what's your next  
have you seen robin hood yet  
uh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
well i went  
course i am a kevin costner fan  
supreme  
uh_huh  
gosh was that wonderful  
oh yeah  
i do too  
i think he's really good  
i wouldn't think  
well my kids are going to their dad's tomorrow night  
so i sort of think i may go do that  
good  
i  
my parents took me when i was probably somewhere between [ashley] and [jamie's] age  
and we went to the  
i really haven't seen any movies lately  
so when the computer picked this one i was a little bit surprised  
but i think i haven't been to the movie theater here in about oh six months  
but uh you know the last movies that i've seen were probably on video  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now i i haven't seen the terminator movie  
but and that's kind of blood and guts isn't it  
i don't particularly care for that sort of stuff  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
he [maims] them pretty good doesn't he  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i i saw uh sleeping with the enemy  
uh   uh i saw it uh  
oh couple weeks ago i rented it and uh watched it  
and i was i was pretty disappointed in it  
because i i was told by several people that it's pretty scary and intense  
and i was pretty disappointed in it  
now it's a good movie  
but i guess that they built me up too much   for my expectations in it there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now i haven't seen it either  
but uh i've heard that it's real long that it's a good movie but it's long like three hours  
that's right  
that's right  
oscar  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know my daughter saw that  
and she liked it  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and of course i get to watch all these movies like look who's talking and who's look who's talking too  
and because i have a ten year old  
so   we we watch a lot of movies around that category you know   that she that she can watch  
yeah  
we seen the little mermaid too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and there's some i think there's some good disney movies fixing to come out on video uh [shipwrecked]  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's fixing to come out on video  
and boy i can't think of the other one that's fixing to come out  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well i'm glad to know that there's somebody else out there that doesn't get to go to the movie theater  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right   and then they go to the dollar movies  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that does sound fun  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
golly  
i don't think that i've ever heard of that movie  
oh that's the that's the one where they burn down the house or something  
the house [explodes]  
oh okay  
okay  
yeah  
another movie that i want to see if it ever comes out on video so i can see it without my daughter around is uh-oh  
i just forgot the title of it  
uh-oh it's supposed to be a real scary one  
uh darn  
well here here's another one that i've seen  
i saw uh  
i can't remember the title of it either  
oh well that's  
we rent a lot of videos   too  
uh we saw  
i have two little babies  
and we saw one movie recently  
and that was the terminator   movie uh which i didn't like after all  
well i don't either  
it  
on all the the advertisements arnold schwarzenegger says he doesn't kill anybody in the movie  
he doesn't  
he [maims] them  
so  
uh_huh  
he he uh i think he shoots off their knee caps for the most part   in the movie  
so  
oh i haven't seen that one yet  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
well   with all the commercials   and everything  
i haven't  
that's one we want to see  
i i want to see uh dances with wolves  
but we haven't seen that one yet either  
yeah  
that's what i heard too  
yeah  
we've got to get it at a time when we can put our kids to bed and stay up late   to watch it  
so   we saw uh the the uh movie with uh sylvester stallone oscar  
supposed to be his uh his [debut] in comedy  
which was an interesting movie but not very funny  
did she  
well it was it was an amusing movie  
it  
i guess maybe it would have been better if we'd have been at the theater   as opposed to uh just at the house watching it with with no one else around  
so  
oh  
uh_huh  
my son just turned two  
and so the little mermaid is now our favorite movie  
little mermaid and peter pan   i think are are his two favorites that we've got  
oh i haven't i didn't hear that was coming out  
well they just had   uh the [rescuers] movie  
that was a disney movie wasn't it  
i think i heard that was just one was just out  
he's uh he doesn't sit still for the whole movie yet  
but   he likes to uh to listen to the music and stuff if there's a lot of that in the in the movie  
well i tell you ever  
my my kids are just small babies  
and i tell you we really want to go   a lot  
and uh there's so much out on video now that it's almost you know  
the movie comes out quicker than you can go see it   sometimes  
so  
uh_huh  
that seems to happen  
i noticed that dances with wolves was playing at the uh granada theater  
and uh someone said that was a lot of fun to go do  
you can have dinner and everything while you watch the movie  
i thought that might be kind of fun to do  
and of course you need a baby sitter for that  
definitely  
but uh no  
i'd really like to get out to the movies more often  
course it's so expensive now too   that you can't hardly afford it  
i i know we get discount tickets   where my husband works  
but other than that it just seems like it's so expensive  
and then the popcorn and everything else  
you almost can't afford to do it   no matter what  
although we did actually get  
we went on vacation couple months ago  
and we got to go see what about bob  
that was kind of a funny movie with uh richard dreyfuss and bill murray  
that was fun  
oh he's a richard dreyfuss is a uh psychiatrist  
and bob is his patient  
and bob follows him on vacation  
it's uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's the one  
must have left an impression  
okay  
well what movie have you seen   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's one of my   favorite even  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
a whole lot  
uh_huh  
kind of dark  
uh_huh  
good  
well how  
is he young  
yeah  
okay  
that makes sense  
well my kids' very favorite and yours may be too young for it was home alone  
they uh  
well we do too  
but they just want to rent that one  
that is their very favorite  
they think they're so cute  
i guess so  
i guess so  
i guess so  
we're not real big movie [goers] ourselves  
but we did try to go see about a month ago that um dead again   that black and white one  
and i was not real impressed with it  
in fact we kept sitting there all through the theater going now what what did that mean  
wait wait run that back  
and we couldn't run it back  
uh_huh  
but we we just kept trying to figure it out until finally toward the end  
and we thought we were being very quiet  
this man turned around and said could you all please save that for later  
and i'm sorry  
we're just not real big movie [goers]  
yeah  
well that's us too  
that's us too  
yeah  
i thought that was cute too  
and my husband's name is bob  
and he wants to see that  
yeah  
he wanted to see that  
i thought the funny part in home alone was uh that's good for kids is kind of coming up with how they can deal with problems on their own without [panicking]  
and i thought they could learn a lot of lessons from that  
the little guy is so cute  
and he's terribly rich by now  
yeah  
me too  
oh that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
awakening is supposed to be wonderful  
yeah  
awakening is supposed to be wonderful  
my mom saw that  
and she said that was an excellent movie  
yes  
yes  
i think that's supposed to be good  
and i uh we have some doctors at church who said that doctor was just wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
well on uh  
back to your movie you saw that ten thousand  
uh hundred and one dalmatians  
um did you all ever think about purchasing that one when it comes out  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i understand that too  
i understand that too  
now they had  
uh_huh  
they had home alone offered for like  
i think with the rebate you could get it for nine dollars  
and i thought well now that's that's close enough to being several you know  
you could rent it   more than   more than four times and watch that  
well i i understand   i understand  
oh yeah  
of course  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh sweet  
but that's   in her plans  
well it's hard it's hard to find a movie any more these days that you can take your kids  
and even the ones that we rent at home the trouble with some of them i know  
we rented adventures in baby sitting   thinking that would be so cute  
and it's a precious movie  
but the language in it is just for no reason has to stick in  
uh_huh  
well you watch   it differently when your kids are in the room you know  
and i was just sitting there going oh my goodness  
and i'm going to have to stop and explain  
and they go i know mommy i know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's it's a little different because you see things from a different   different angle  
uh we rented  
this summer before we went on vacation  
we rented chevy chase and that family vacation  
and those are just absolutely hilarious  
but you just really can't watch a lot of that  
we had to fast forward through a whole lot of it for them to see it  
i think the last one that we actually went to go see  
well there's two  
i took my kids to see a hundred and one dalmatians  
of course they wanted to see it  
they had the disney  
book   and they thought that was wonderful  
and they loved the dogs  
and   so   yes  
we went with some friends of ours  
and i was a little worried about my son  
he's about two and a half  
and he's going through a stage right now where he's kind of afraid of dogs barking if he can   hear them and can't see them  
and he did real good through the whole movie except the part where the dogs are sending the message you know that the the the puppies are missing  
and it shows the town  
and you can hear all the barking  
but you   can't see the dogs  
yeah  
so that kind of bothered him  
but after that he did fine  
yeah  
he'll be three in january  
yeah  
i loved that movie  
probably gives them ideas of what they want to do  
right  
yeah  
wasn't that good  
oh no  
well i like to watch the movies  
but it's gotten so expensive that we   wait until they come out on video  
and we rent them  
and now we did go see home alone at the dollar movie  
and that was just hilarious  
i died  
and we we did also  
we went to see what about bob one night which is a funny funny movie  
it's a funny movie  
that's true  
i hope he stays cute   not spoiled you know  
you get to where   the money goes to their heads or   goes to something you know  
they grow up too fast  
so but uh there's a lot i want to see you know  
what i try to do when they come out is just make a list of them that look good   so that when they come out in video  
you know i'd like to see green card  
i want to see awakening  
uh i'd like to see silence of the lambs  
yeah  
and see i've had somebody tell me that regarding henry you know the harrison   ford movie is   supposed to be really good  
i'd like to see that  
i've heard that's   good  
yeah  
so i think there's a bunch of good movies coming out  
my kids want to see [rescuer's] down under  
so i'm going to  
my v c r went on the [blitz] about two weeks ago  
so i'm getting it fixed right now   because they have their little movies their little you know disney movies they watch all the time   and stuff  
and  
yeah  
you know i look at those  
like cinderella came out   was for sale  
and i don't buy them  
i now i will copy them and rent them   and keep them at home  
but i just have a problem paying twenty five dollars for a movie that i can go down and rent for a dollar  
you know they don't last that long  
oh that's pretty good  
yeah  
yeah  
that that makes it worth it uh  
but a lot of the disney movies it's just too expensive  
and i can rent them  
or i can make a copy   you know  
my daughter's in love with the little mermaid  
and i have a copy that's just about worn out  
she's four  
so she just thinks the  
in fact she told me mom if we have a little girl and she has red hair we're [naming] her [aerial]  
now i'm not pregnant mind you  
but this is  
she's planning ahead  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i know  
now see i remember thinking it's a wonderful movie  
but it's been so long since i   watched it  
i don't remember the language  
was it bad  
well that's true  
oh and see my kids weren't in the  
you're right  
i watched it without them  
huh  
huh  
yes  
yes  
yes  
some of it just isn't  
do you or your husband work for t i  
or  
oh are you  
oh i see  
well that's neat  
uh_huh  
so i've worked for them for several years like twelve now i guess  
right  
i try to  
i try to think of myself as young  
but uh well have you seen any movies recently  
oh did you  
no  
i haven't  
i   have have a hard time with movies that are real long  
i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
well i've heard a lot of good things about it  
was it   uh we my wife and i went and saw a couple of funny ones  
we saw the naked gun two and a half  
and that was that was pretty funny  
and then we saw  
what was the [spoof] on top gun  
it's  
oh i can't think of what that was called  
we saw that too  

i was pretty disappointed in that one  
yeah  
but uh so you know through the summer  
we have small children so we don't get to see too many but we've seen i guess two or three movies this past summer  
uh_huh  
right  
have you seen ghosts yet  
i really i enjoyed that movie  
really  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh van damme  
yeah  
i think  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh silence of the lambs  
yes  
i did  
yeah  
i really enjoyed that a lot  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's amazing  
but really i mean when you stop and think about it anthony perkins didn't have that big a role in the movie  
and yet it was his character that was so intriguing  
yeah  
yeah  
i do too  
i really did  
you know jody foster was good too but i think i think anthony perkins was the one that that really made the movie  
i agree with you  
oh hopkins  
i'm sorry  
hopkins  
yeah  
i always get those   mixed up  
well i  
well i haven't been  
i'm i saw her in the keys  
and i thought that was a pretty good movie  
but i thought she  
that was that was pretty interesting movie  
and uh but you know i i did  
i really liked the silence of the lambs  
that was really intriguing  
and it it didn't scare me all that much you know  
and i i don't like to go to movies to be scared  
that's not why i go  
so  
right  
and that one was  
oh he didn't see it  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
i've seen it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've seen that  
it's pretty it's pretty cute  
i guess you know as far as comedies go probably my favorite is young [frankenstein]  
i love that movie  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
well gene wilder doesn't do that much for me  
but i'm a big uh mel brooks fan  
all his movies i really really  
he does  
oh is that the one with that's he's starring in  
oh yeah  
that came out like early in the summer or something like that  
yeah  
i haven't seen that one either  
oh blazing [saddles]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
i like i like that one too but i thought young [frankenstein] was better  
yeah  
that that was just you know had all kinds of things throughout the whole movie  
i just really enjoyed it  
and uh um i'm trying to think  
because we saw another one that we thought was really good early this summer that was a suspenseful movie  
i'm trying to remember what it was  
because it you know it's  
i'm a contract person at t i   in fact involved with uh data switchboard  
and uh do you work for t i  
uh_huh  
oh you sound very young   like just out of college  
uh i'm trying to think  
we saw uh dances with wolves  
and uh have you seen that one  
that was excellent  
well so oddly enough i do too  
i get tired of sitting there and   so does my husband  
but we both just thoroughly you know   enjoyed it just really liked it  
and uh i'm trying to think  
we went to see a uh a real funny one  
i can't think now what the name of it was  
i've gone blank  
oh we have not seen that  
we want to see that one  
oh i haven't seen that one  
were you  
my husband doesn't enjoy the shows as much going to them  
he likes to rent them  
and so we watch a lot of them you know at home   as they come out  
and uh  
yes  
yes  
did you  
now i i was real disappointed  
i'm a real big patrick swayze fan  
and uh i was really disappointed in it  
it  
one  
i don't think it was as funny as what i was anticipating  
and i guess i was expecting it to be kind of funny   and uh and it wasn't   you know at all  
it was it was more of a love story  
and uh so i was really disappointed in that because i like him   real well  
we just got through watching one with uh uh is it claude van damme   yeah and uh enjoyed it  
i can't think what the name of  
it was a uh of course one of the typical   you know kicking fighting   lots of blood and guts and all that   type movie  
and and we enjoyed that  
and uh the uh uh the one with jody foster did you see it  
yes  
wasn't that excellent  
yeah  
that was one that that stayed with me   you know for a month  
i just  
i kept thinking about it you know  
no  
oh it was excellent  
and and of course he's such a uh very good actor anyway  
and i think he made the movie  
yeah  
is it anthony perkins or anthony hopkins  
hopkins  
uh_huh  
i know  
i know  
it uh well  
i'm not a real big jody foster fan  
but i thought she was good in that  
now i didn't see that one  
no  
no  
i like a good suspenseful   story  
and that one very definitely kept you on the edge of the seats  
in fact i want to uh rent it when it comes out for my husband to see  
because he didn't  
he won't go see that  
no  
i went with uh our daughter   and uh so you know saw it with her and uh enjoyed it  
my all time favorite is weekend at bernie's  
did you see it  
oh i've seen it you know  
we saw it at the movies  
and then we've rented it several times  
and we just love it  
in fact we have a ten year old grandson that  
he and my husband and i we just sit there and [cackle]   you know just get hysterical  
uh yes  
yes  
my husband liked that  
uh he's a big gene wilder fan  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
he has a new one out  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh i have seen it advertised  
i don't know what the name of it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
my husband wants to see that one  
and uh did you see that one that he made years and years ago about the uh the sheriff  
blazing [saddles]  
oh that's my husband's all time favorite i think  
did you  

well have you seen a new movie lately  
uh_huh  
okay  
i uh i haven't seen either one of those  
uh what what are some of the shows that you have been able to rent though  
well maybe you uh you have seen dances with wolves  
okay  
what did you think of that one  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i uh i just moved down in fact from south dakota in in june  
and that's when the movie was filmed  
and uh we when when the movie came out we went  
uh my dad lives in the state capital which is pierre  
and it was filmed right outside of pierre  
in fact the buffalo the scene the big buffalo [herd] scene that was that was a live scene  
uh there's a guy that has got a a buffalo farm  
and he has got over ten thousand head of buffalo and and uh we my dad has got a little plane we flew over it all looked at the buffalo  
it was really neat  
but uh so we are watching the the movie in the movie theater in pierre  
and uh just every time i would start to get into the movie and it was getting good   someone in the crowd would yell hey there's john red eagle you know  
or   you know they'd start recognizing people  
yeah  
so i kind of i think i enjoyed it more when i when i watched it on video cassette than i did uh in the movie theater because my attention would get diverted every time they'd say that  
i'd go now now which one could that be   you know  
and i'd i'd start trying to focus in on people instead of of picking up the overall  
right  
exactly  
so but i i thought it was a good film  
but you are right  
i think i think it was very one sided  
sure  
right  
in fact i was watching wild wild west last night  
and   it was a similar uh situation with the [iroquois] indians attacking a an army fort  
um but it was an interesting movie  
uh have you seen pretty woman  
now i thought that was a good show  
yeah  
it didn't uh it didn't have any real social bearing  
or   uh and it wasn't really a comedy  
but it was an enjoyable movie  
it was it was kind of like the star wars   series you know just something a little different   yet believable  
uh now are you are you going to see or do you are you much of a star trek fan  
are you going to see this next one that's coming out  
have you seen the rest  
i think i've missed one  
i'm not sure  
but i think i've missed one  
was that here in dallas  
okay  
because we had one here in dallas  
uh_huh  
well uh i am a student  
and i have uh been actually watching more movies on video   than being able to go out to see uh movies at the store or at the theater  
uh i i want to see the fisher king and and uh catch robin hood  
uh let's see  
uh i'm trying to just think of the ones that have come on  
uh white palace which i thought was over rated over [hyped] um recently  
well you're catching me at it uh uh at minds end here  
what have you seen recently  
yes  
yes  
enjoyed that quite a bit  
um i thought the uh the the cinematography was excellent  
uh the story was  
uh though it tended to be a little one sided   uh it was good  
uh it was it was believable  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they knew they knew the extras or the  
uh_huh  
scope  
uh_huh  
it it was  
but it's a side that hasn't been told uh as far as you know telling it from you know the indians as the good guys and the the white men as the bad guys  
i i really thought about uh all the the westerns that we have seen for years and years  
and it's just shoot the indians  
and they are always the [savages]  
so  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
that was that was a good movie  
um it was just kind of a get away movie  
kind of  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
you're bringing it  
i don't know  
i had a i sure did have a mind lock about the movies i've seen  
but yeah  
i've seen pretty woman and dances with wolves  
and uh  
oh definitely  
yes  
i actually went to the star trek twenty fifth anniversary [marathon] that happened about a month ago  
and they showed all five in a row  
oh they had it everywhere  
uh every major city had one theater that did it  
and  
right  
and they did it in houston  
they did it well they did it everywhere  
and it was it was really good to see all the movies and how the story developed  
and the thing that i didn't realize is that if you watch the movies in a row uh time wise they happen one after another   and just no no time between them  
but you can watch the characters develop  
so so what have you seen lately that um you think is worthwhile  
no  
i i saw the previews  
does does he does it have a happy ending  
or  
uh_huh  
oh that was funny wasn't it  
yes  
and and and and the regular naked gun and airport and you know  
yes  
right  
so now these are for two very different movies  
one one uh absolutely slapstick comedy and one clearly you know serious subject  
yeah  
i i guess i have similarly broad tastes  
um my most recent um movie that i that i liked a lot not my most recent movie was henry the fifth  
i only rented it you know maybe a month ago  
and it's been out for a couple of years  
but have you seen that  
well it's it's a it's an [adaptation] of the of the shakespeare play  
and it's beautifully done  
um i believe that all the language is as shakespeare wrote it except it's been [shortened] a little bit  
and there might be a word or two changed  
uh but it's it's it's a glorious movie  
um and i like as you know these these these silly movies  
and i also like just some strange movies  
do you have any  
well the the one that comes immediately to mind i um is the the cook the [thief] his wife her lover  
um but there are also these various um david lynch movies  
um i got i got hooked on twin peaks  
that made me go out and watch every david lynch movie i could lay my hands on  
oh  
um   well i don't i don't especially recommend  
i mean you have you have to just sort of like this thing  
you have to like  
did you see twin peaks  
no  
so okay  
so if you weren't if you weren't drawn to watch that you maybe you wouldn't be drawn to these movies either  
they're they're just strange  
well uh   i think suspense is the right word  
uh and but but a little bit strange and [esoteric]  
and uh in the case of twin peak a little there's some elements of the [supernatural] in it too  
that was the television show  
um there's also a a a [producer] of movies in baltimore called um john walters who who puts puts on even [weirder] movies  
uh his most recent ones have actually been fairly mainstream like hair spray  
um but back in his early days he he he had things um um  
what what are the titles  
i can't remember the titles any more but some really weird ones uh with quite a random crew of of characters  
um it would have made you know these [fellini] movies look normal  
i do i do like movies a lot  
do do you rent them  
or  
yes  
yeah  
that's what my wife does too um  
i mean she falls asleep  
so we have to we have to pick just the right kind of movie   to to to to appeal  
well well it was good talking to you  
take care  
okay  
bye  
um the last movie i saw was regarding henry  
have you seen that yet  
it's really good  
i loved it  
um it's um  
yeah  
really good ending  
um uh it was the it's one of the best movies i've seen in a long time  
i generally don't get into movies that much  
but i saw that one  
and then before that one i saw um oh naked gun two and a half  
yeah  
did you have you seen that one  
yeah  
it's exactly like airplane   wasn't it  
but it was silly  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i haven't seen that yet  
right  
um   such as  
uh_huh  
oh really  
i haven't seen any of those  
they're really good  
huh_uh  
no  
uh_huh  
are they i mean is it like mystery or   suspense  
or  
oh really  
um  
right  
so do you like um movies a lot  
see i don't do  
i don't  
right  
see i don't do that  
i don't go to movies that often  
but just recently i've been to a couple  
um no  
we i just go to like the dollar movie theater around here   generally  
but i don't know  
i just i usually fall asleep  
or i get bored pretty easily  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
that's exactly right  
yeah  
it's good to talk to you too  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
all right  
i i like keep forgetting to make these calls  
i've been on this list for two months  
i think i've made four calls  
right  
well there are some kind of nice prizes  
and it's worth doing it  
i so mad i think i've had this for two months  
and like i've said i've made four calls  
and lot of times we don't answer the phone probably when i get mine   early in the evening  
well we're supposed to talk about movies  
have you been to any lately  
uh i haven't really seen one since probably august because uh every weekend in in the fall we go to our high school football game on friday   then we go out with friends after  
and that's kind of the   our social   for the  
but oh i saw uh robin hood which i didn't care for  
no  
and my husband dragged me to it  
i like i think kevin [costner's] a nice fellow  
and he's nice looking  
but he just to me is not a very [dynamic] actor  
i guess because he is good looking  
i don't know  
i don't know  
oh  
i saw city slickers  
did you see  
that was a  
that's the last one i saw i think  
i did too  
i thought that was so cute  
and   oh i do too  
oh i i really enjoyed that  
right  
which most of them probably aren't  
i don't know what my kids see any more  
my kids are twenty and sixteen  
so they've probably seen about everything at this point  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh i know it  
that's the way it is  
we can see some pretty [raunchy] stuff on on just regular t v without cable or anything   you know  
there's no way to protect them any more  
so  
no  
it'll teach a great lesson because she ended   up so in so  
but it was a fun movie to watch  
oh the scary one  
oh i didn't see that  
but the  
oh really  
oh i like scary ones that are realistic  
they say is really frightening too  
the new one that came out  
they say it's really [horrifyingly] scary  
but uh i'd never get my husband to that  
he doesn't like to be scared  
oh and my kids both saw that  
they liked it  
and it was still scary   oh no  
gosh  
oh no  
that one sounded gross  
i know my husband wouldn't have stood for that  
he he likes mary [poppins] and things  
yeah  
i do too  
i i really like a variety  
where are you from  
oh i was going to  
well my husband's from new jersey  
and   we lived there for five years when we first got married  
and so it sound kind of nice  
it was familiar your accent  
oh  
right  
i don't know up there  
just uh  
different  
uh_huh  
well see the accents up there fascinated me because even in his family alone there were several different accents   the way they would pronounce words differently  
and and his family they lived in the same house there  
most of them were twenty or so you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and they lived you know  
they never moved into apartments when they were young  
they always stayed at home until they got married  
it seemed to be the custom up there  
or they went in the service  
and so they were together for all that time  
but they still  
their accents [differed] a little in the family  
so and it  
uh in the sixties  
i finally  
oh yeah  
i converted him to being a texan  
i i just thought life would be  
i knew it was easier back here  
well sort of  
i'm an air force brat  
but   i was real familiar with texas  
i went to college here and everything  
and i just thought you know we could probably get a better house  
and life is a little slower a little easier  
he loves it  
he he really would never want to leave  
so it worked out  
not hard when you first came  
was it hard when you first came  
oh my  
oh i know  
oh compared to new york oh  
yes  
were you all transferred  
um  
i have a friend down the [street's] from new jersey  
and they were  
he got a  
oh really  
i just   oh i just got mine last week  
and i haven't started yet because i wanted to get one first   see how it worked  
really  
yeah  
i have i was trying to think of the one i went to a couple of weeks ago  
but i forgot it already  
oh  
that's your weekend  
yeah  
really  
really  
i didn't see that because i didn't think i would care for it  
oh  
yeah  
i think that's why a lot of people go to see him though  
right  
yes  
i did see that  
and i really enjoyed that  
yeah  
i thought that was appropriate just for everyone  
yeah  
it was great  
yeah  
and my daughter went to see that one too  
so it was fine for her  
so yeah  
right  
well that's right  
probably they have  
well my daughter is twelve  
and we had a sleep over one night  
they wanted to watch pretty woman which i have  
and i was hesitant  
and they all had seen it anyway  
all twelve  
so  
yes  
they do  
yes  
they do  
right  
but   i i love julia roberts movies  
but i didn't think they were great for my daughter  
no  
really  
really  
oh i love pretty woman  
and then i like that one after that where oh  
what was it  
it was like a fatal attraction thing  
yeah  
i don't remember the name of it  
but that was so good  
that was really excellent  
yeah  
that that was that was  
what was  
oh i don't know  
really  
oh  
the last scary thing i saw was misery  
that scared me to death  
and i watched it at a friend's house on video  
and i was just  
oh yes  
it was horrible  
it was so awful  
really  
i like that too  
i like funny movies  
and i like scary movies  
yeah  
i'm from new york  
is he really  
oh  
yeah  
yes  
it's so close  
i'm from long island  
so that's close you know  
that's   more related to new jersey than it is to like rochester new york those that kind of thing  
yeah  
different  
it's   it's different  
yeah  
i guess  
oh  
really  
really  
and they were all from new jersey  
um  
really  
um  
when did you live there  
oh yeah  
i was in new york in the sixties  
are you from texas  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
it is it is  
yeah  
i'm used to it now  
so i like  
um  
oh yes  
it was because we're here eighteen years  
and you can imagine what plano was like eighteen years ago  
it was very difficult  
yeah  
it was very very difficult  
i didn't even want to talk  
yeah  
yeah  
all right  
i think that gets us off to discussing the topic for tonight  
that is correct  
are you a movie buff  
well i have a v c r  
and i see most all of mine there  
what have you seen recently that you enjoyed  
no  
i haven't  
now i i live alone  
consequently i don't like these psycho things  
oh okay  
have you seen the  
if  
do you have a v c r  
have you seen the movie class action with gene [hackman]  
i saw it this weekend  
and it is uh to me an outstanding movie  
i thoroughly enjoyed it  
he is uh an attorney and his daughter is an attorney  
and she has a suit against his company  
you know it's one of those things  
but there's a lot of  
well it's just it's something that anyone can watch and enjoy  
beg your pardon  
yes  
he is  
yes  
i've seen [hoosiers]  
saw it just again the other night for  
oh did you  
have you seen the movie um crossing [delancy]  
now that's one i have watched oh six or eight times  
i always feel so good when i get through with that movie  
i do too  
dirty dancing and crossing [delancy] are two of my favorite  
so well what business are you in  
oh  
in new hampshire  
all right  
oh all right  
okay  
so is everything going all right up there  
oh well that's that bad then  
half an hour we do that just going to downtown dallas  
so  
that makes a lot of sense  
but um we  
are you a native of that part of the country  
oh  
uh sounds wonderful  
did you have damage this year with hurricanes  
i happened to be in nassau  
and we got the backlash of that thing  
and they had record high waves thirty year high waves come in there  
and it was quite an experience  
so  
well what movies are you looking forward to seeing now  
okay  
have you seen green card  
that's a real warm movie  
it it really just turned out nicely  
so i would recommend that if you have a chance  
well if you if you can get green card go for it  
i have been working at uh as an accountant at the medical school here in dallas  
and i have watched uh gross [anatomy]  
have you seen that one  
okay  
and i don't know  
i can associate with some of the people in that movie because of the young students i see over at the medical school  
but i hope you have a very merry christmas  
i'm looking forward to it  
well  
which is movies  
correct  
okay  
um yeah  
i don't like going to see them in the theaters  
but outside of that rent a lot  
watch them on t v mostly  
uh i don't know um  
actually earlier tonight we were watching to live and die in l a  
have you seen that movie  
it's a kind of one of those psycho ones  
oh it's not too bad  
one of those cop [thrillers]  
but  
yes  
we do  
uh no  
i haven't yet  
yeah  
that  
he's a good actor though  
um gene [hackman's] a good actor   i think  
do you see [hoosiers]  
yeah  
actually i we saw her just the other night too  
yeah  
it's one of our favorite movies  
i i live with um a roommate and my girlfriend the three of us  
we've seen that movie probably six times in the last six months  
yeah  
yeah  
i like those movies that you watch time and time again  
i'm i'm an electrical engineer  
i work in massachusetts actually  
um it's only about um half an hour  
i live on the border  
that's right  
see we live up in tax free new hampshire and drive down to massachusetts to work  
yeah  
i grew up in new hampshire  
it seems southern town  
it's called [portsmouth]  
it's i don't know fifteen minutes from the border and five minutes from the main border  
we live right in the corner  
that one little spot in new hampshire we have ten miles of coastline  
i live on one of that little ten mile spot  
not up um where i live  
but further down the coast in massachusetts they got hit pretty bad  
um well i'm i'm only twenty seven years old  
so the doors movie that's out on video i want to watch that  
that would be pretty good  
no  
i haven't seen that one  
i'm in for it  
we rent a lot of movies  
so we we often sit around and say what movies should we rent  
and we don't know  
all right  
we'll try that one  
yeah  
i did  
you too  
i think we're going to have a white christmas up here just like the song says  
okay  
uh i guess our topic is about movies  
and uh what is coincidence  
we got a baby sitter  
and we went to the movies that past weekend  
and we saw cape fear  
it is  
it's really good  
oh how was that  
i heard that's a movie that uh you really can't take children  
is that true  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
because uh the little boy dies  
yeah  
oh  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh i want to see that one  
well cape fear was was more suspenseful  
it was really suspenseful  
so that that's that's a real good movie to see  
uh no  
and it uh it was kind of  
i don't know  
it's kind of both i guess  
but it's not it's not as bad as silence of the lambs  
but uh it's just as suspenseful i think  
and it it was a real good movie  
and then we saw beauty and the [beast]   because we have two kids   and [fievel] goes west  
but uh those were those were okay  
so   and then oh boy it's been it's been so long since we've been to the movies  
but i we've rented some videos  
and i think the last one i rented was uh [mortal] thoughts   with demi moore  
and uh that that that's okay  
that's pretty good  
oh and uh what about bob  
yeah  
yeah  
we rented that one  
and uh uh i guess that's about it  
have you rented any movies lately  
oh yeah  
that was good  
we rented that one too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so do you go to the movies often  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well we have two little kids  
so it's hard for us to get out and go to the movies  
we have to dig up a baby sitter  
and   and that's only the only time we can go out  
so our time is [scarce]  
but uh we we we we you know we're we're big movie people  
and   we try and do  
and i don't i don't know about the last movie i've seen on t v that was real good uh  
oh yeah  
uh   [bertinelli] or what's her name  
i can't  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that was real good  
i saw that one uh two part series  
and i heard it was a true story  
yeah  
i think that was probably the last movie i've seen too  
and and then i saw that other movie about uh mother mother wife murderer  
did you see that one  
yeah  
did you see that one  
that was was really good  
that was supposed to be a true story too  
yeah  
guess a couple weeks ago or something like that  
boy   we have   we we see all the same movies  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
huh well   we sure do have a lot in common  
if you're ever in town we'll go see a movie  
but and we don't really  
do you all have do you all still have drive ins up there  
or  
um well we may have just a couple over here  
uh_huh  
oh so did i  
oh i heard that was excellent  
is it  
uh i wanted to see that  
i was deciding between that and uh my girl  
and uh my boyfriend and i went to see my girl  
oh it was excellent  
it was a really really good movie  
i'd recommend it  
uh i heard the opposite that uh you should take children to see it  
uh there were quite a few uh kids in there with their parents  
yeah  
uh i don't know though  
i i've heard that and then what you just told me  
so  
right  
yeah  
it was sad  
it was really sad  
but uh his it kind of shows how his uh best friend this little girl deals with his death   and how i think maybe how children should deal with death  
maybe  
but it was really good  
it was sad very sad  
yeah  
i heard it was uh sort of like uh not uh too violent  
but it was kind of like uh gross kind of like uh silence of the lambs like  
oh really  
oh  
oh yeah  
uh  
oh i've seen uh previews for them on t v  
but i  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i like to rent movies too  
oh  
oh i i didn't see that  
yeah  
i have seen that   at the [theatres]  
yeah  
that that was cute  
uh the last movie i rented was the hard way with michael j fox  
and uh  
yeah  
i liked that  
i like michael j fox a lot  
he's one of my favorites  
i like his movies  
no  
not too often  
i i hadn't been to the movies for a really long time   since last weekend  
but uh there's been movies out that i've been wanting to see  
i just you know don't get a chance to get out and see them  
oh i see  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
oh i watched that movie with uh barbara uh uh  
what was her name  
oh  
that uh her sister got killed  
and uh she had a baby  
the husband was a dentist  
and he had murdered her  
that was that was pretty good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh [valerie] [bertinelli]  
that's it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh uh with uh judith light  
uh  
yeah  
i did see that  
yeah  
i did  
that was on a while ago wasn't it  
yeah  
i saw that  
yeah  
that was pretty good  
i  
yeah  
i like uh the true stories  
they're more interesting  
and it's hard to believe that you know this really happened  
some of them are pretty bad  
but  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do you have them there  
uh which ones have you seen lately  
thelma and louise  
yeah  
i haven't seen that  
is it good  
is it  
yeah  
i i'm not familiar  
which which billy crystal movie  
oh city slickers  
that's a real good show  
yeah  
it's great  
uh it says a lot about uh uh you know  
i i'm young  
but it says a lot about middle life   you know  
and uh uh it's a really good show  
yeah  
yeah  
uh yeah  
i'm not too familiar with thelma and louise  
uh uh uh recently i i've seen uh the fisher king  
have you seen that  
it's a really good show  
uh has jeff bridges and and uh robin williams  
uh really really good  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh well i like to be entertained once in a while  
but i i really enjoy watching a movie that uh where they don't really try and attract the you know the great audience but rather put out a a real good movie  
uh it always  
my my favorite movie of all time has been uh uh the mission  
did you ever see that  
uh it's a a  
i think it's put out by landmark [productions] the same people who put out [chariots] of fire  
uh it's a it's a  
has robert deniro in it  
uh he plays one of the main characters  
and uh it's about uh jesuit community in uh at the [inca] falls in in uh south america northern argentina  
uh really really good show  
yeah  
it's it's something that you know  
it's it's really [stirring]  
the cinematography is just beautiful and really beautiful scenes and real good music  
oh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
i'm much the same way  
i i i i have a fiance  
and it it gets very difficult to uh uh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they are  
sometimes you're in the mood for it even  
uh_huh  
i found when when i get when i get with my uh old college buddy we we usually rent uh good [gladiator] movie or two  
uh i still enjoy watching those  
you can't just watch them by yourself or else   it's not [bearable]  
but it's it's fun to  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's   the ones where they [dub] in [dub] in the english  
that's great  
uh uh on foreign films did uh did you did you watch  
are you uh [fluent] in another language  
or  
oh you don't  
i don't either  
i i feel foolish sometimes because i i don't speak another language [fluently]  
but i do enjoy watching   you know subtitles  
oh i just sort of [blanking] tonight  
i just got done saying i just saw one uh fairly recently  
uh-oh gosh oh i know uh uh the one with the two girls that take off from uh uh across across the country on a crime [spree]  
thelma and louise  
yeah  
yeah  
it really is  
it's it's interesting  
oh yeah  
i enjoyed it  
i was going to go see uh the billy crystal movie also which was  
i'm a little bit behind  
i usually rent them  
oh this is the  
uh just the one oh  
gosh  
it was the uh   city slickers  
right  
have you seen that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i i've heard lots of good things about it  
and i would have would have liked to have seen it  
but i was with my wife  
and i figured she'd like thelma and louise better  
so  
and i'd heard it was really good too  
so  
no  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there's there's been a a fair number of of pretty good movies out recently  
i mean it kind of runs in in [batches]  
i mean for a while sometimes they come in a whole bunch of them that just i don't even you know   doesn't even sound like something i want to see  
what what kind of movies in general do you like to watch  
uh_huh  
no  
in fact i'm not even familiar with it  
i don't think  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
no  
in fact i i i'll i'll look for it because i  
actually yeah  
my wife's from down in that region around the the called the the seven missions which are which are right down in this where i'm sure where it was filmed at  
and uh   i'm sure that that would make it worth worth her watching  
she  
my my uh my movie watching has has severely uh has has changed a lot since i got married  
yeah  
she she likes uh action movies and uh and and comedies  
and so anything that's has anything   little is a little little bit less than sort of mainstream hollywood is   is boring to her  
and and so i i i i really i used to watch a fair number of foreign films  
i used to watch a lot of sort of the less the less popular films  
and i find i don't do it anymore or else i have to watch them on my own  
find something both of you will watch  
she  
it's funny because most women aren't really  
she's sort of schwarzenegger fan type of  
yeah  
she really likes all these gory   shoot them up films  
keep her on the edge of her seat  
i'll watch them you know  
they're kind of fun to watch in a way  
but uh so it it it varies  
i don't seem to get you know as much variety these days lately   as i used to  
well yeah  
on the other hand you know given that my wife likes those i i say i occasionally like to watch them  
and and so uh you know so it's you can always count on her to watch something like that  
and she'll even watch things like karate movies and stuff like that   you know which most most women now   won't  
they won't come within ten feet of   all the all the ya   all the sounds of the karate chops flying through the air  
a [cha]  
i  
yeah  
i speak several uh  
but i i don't mind watching [subtitle] movies uh  
no  
i i  
yeah  
i mean for some people that's just you know that's out of the question you know  
you give it subtitles they won't watch  
well uh city slickers and star trek five  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i thought i'd better see that one before i go and see six  
no  
i found that out  
how about yourself  
how is it  
oh i can't wait  
now does the old star trek guys meet the new guys  
no  
it's just the old guys still  
you know that i read in people or somewhere no it was u s a today  
that they said they weren't going to do anymore  
that was it  
but  
huh  
i'm not sure what the difference in light years between the new generation and the the old guys was  
huh  
oh that's right  
is that right  
he was   a doctor   still  
well yeah  
he didn't look too bad did he  
yeah  
that's amazing  
but did they have some pretty good special effects  
yeah  
five was the script was bad bad bad  
no  
i don't  
why  
oh is that right  
uh  
leonard [nimoy] he does a lot better  
in search of [spock] or no journey home i think that was  
are you're a real life [trekkie]  
i really like them  
i i wouldn't go so far as being a [trekkie]  
but  
uh  
oh really  
huh did you get to talk to him  
it was   crowded  
no  
yeah  
wow  
huh they have some good management principals in this new generation  
oh  
right  
so he kind of was a cowboy type too  
made all the decisions  
but uh jean [luke] does more of a a   committee type of management  
what other movies have you seen  
oh how was that  
lots of little funny spots huh  
did they have thing  
and  
really  
how did  
i've always wondered how he gets around  
but he's in a box right  
didn't he used to  
oh  
oh that's yeah that's okay  
yeah  
that's what i was thinking  
well let me see  
what have you seen lately  
five  

only only five  
well no  
didn't need to  
i just saw the latest one  
it was fantastic  
yeah  
it's  
the lines in there were just perfect  
i mean it was classic trek  
no  
huh_uh  
yeah  
it was just a rumor that that would happen this time  
however the rumor is is that it will happen next happen next time  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh except that the rumor is is that they still might  
but it may not include the entire crew  
and it will be a next generation meets this generation  
so  
i think it's a hundred years  
somewhere in that range  
considering that [spock] was on an uh you know couple weeks ago   and that the the very first episode of next generation they had [mccoy]  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know he was rear [admiral] whatever you know  
and he just kind of [hobbled] down the halls real slow  
[vulcans] age a lot better  
no  
huh_uh  
matter of fact he looks just as about as old and the uh next generation as he does in the latest star trek  
imagine that  
oh excellent excellent special effects  
but i think the script was you know just incredible compared to the last one  
well you know why  
uh william [shatner] wrote it  
and even worse he directed it  
oh yeah  
he in fact uh he didn't direct this one  
he produced this one  
but he directed the one before uh i think star trek four something like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  

i think so  
uh_huh  
well i've gone to you know one for real live trek convention  
but  
yeah  
i saw james [doohan] you know the guy that plays uh [scotty]  
no  
not in a crowd like that  
huh_uh  
it was like uh want an [autograph] want to stand in line for about four hours  
it was a pretty crowded place  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i  
it's it's kind of funny  
i uh was reading in uh a book uh trying to think  
i can't quite remember the name of the book  
but it was it was saying don't do star trek management style  
and they were referring to you know captain kirk  
every time he left the enterprise everything went to hell  
and nothing got [righted] until he got back up on the ship  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh it's definitely a lot better a lot more realistic really  
uh saw the [addams] family last week  
it was pretty good  
uh there were a few things different than the old series  
but on the on the whole it was pretty similar and a lot of fun  
oh yeah  
yeah  
oh yes  
in fact thing has a big much bigger role than he does in the series  
i mean you know there is lots of areas where thing saves the day  
and he runs around a lot  
uh you know just finger hopping  
no  
no  
no  
in fact it's funny  
he never did does come in out of a box i don't think  
yeah  
he was just kind of walking around  
not really  
he was always   in the box before  
yeah  
what kind of movies have you been seeing lately  
oh it's an excellent movie  
silence of the lambs  
what was that anyway  
okay  
uh_huh  
let's see  
who was in fisher king  
that was um robin williams  
and uh   and uh i can't the last name  
uh we've not been having many opportunities to see movies lately  
um we really enjoyed um dead [poets'] society  
um several years back one we saw we saw we really really enjoyed was uh ordinary people with uh [timothy] [hutton] and uh mary tyler moore  
and uh uh who played the father anyway  
excellent movie  
yes  
we have  
oh we loved it  
i know what you mean  
i know what you mean  
yeah  
i'm pretty impressed with stuff he's done  
uh he made kind of an odd sounding robin hood  
but uh i mean you know basic thick western u s accent for a robin hood just doesn't seem to fit  
oh no  
it's a good movie  
well um they did a real good job with it  
um they didn't try to make him super human or you know [invincible]  
they just just  
he worked hard at it  
no  
i haven't not an opportunity to see that uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it sounds kind of like one uh we saw at home here on the rented it um [clara's] heart  
um [whoopi] [goldberg]  
and she played a uh  
the uh  
she's a housekeeper  
yeah  
she's a housekeeper  
she   she was a oh now i can't say it a [haitian]  
anyway she uh she seemed to be that sort of person that seems half crazy  
but then again she's got a whole lot on the ball  
and the movie had the whole lot of philosophical content more than more than you know  
it wasn't a mystery  
it wasn't you know blood and guts and violence and and car [chases] type thing  
it was just a good movie  
a kiss before dying  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
that that takes a good bit to make one that's predictable that's still worth watching  
oh okay  
uh it's been probably a month or so since i've been to the movies  
course my my favorite now is is dances with wolves  
uh silence of the uh of the lambs was good  
uh_huh  
oh it's a i guess it's a mystery you'd call it  
it's with uh [jodie] foster  
and it uh it's pretty good  
another one that i think i really liked was uh the fisher king  
right  
how about you  
what are you  
yes  
right  
that was that was an excellent movie  
have you seen dances with wolves  
what'd you think of it  
i don't think i can see it enough times  
course i'm a kevin costner fan  
no  
but you know it wasn't a bad movie  
it got such bad reviews  
really and and i thoroughly enjoyed it  
but i then i wasn't expecting any classic either  
i thought so  
have you seen the fisher king  
uh it  
you you know  
i guess it it really isn't for everybody  
it's it's pretty deep and uh uh philosophical  
but i thought it had a wonderful message to it it's the kind you came out and looked at somebody and said you know i think i liked that  
and then the more you got to thinking about it the more you thought you know i did like it  
but when you first came out you weren't real sure  
haven't seen that  
oh yes  
i did  
yes  
i did  
uh the nanny type  
housekeeper uh_huh  
i saw one the other day that was a kiss before dying  
uh_huh  
i had not heard about it when it was on the movies but was out on video  
and it's with sean young  
and it's a it's a mystery  
it was very predictable  
i mean you knew you knew when the murder was going to happen or something  
but it was still so well done   that it was enjoyable  
that's right  
i had uh uh  
i like the i think it's called the uh [razor's] edge  
but no  
no  
the jagged edge  
the jagged edge   with uh  
uh well let's see
i think the best one i saw was probably sleeping with the enemy
have you seen silence of the lambs
oh what
no
but i've heard it's really good
no
i haven't seen that
did you
what did you think of it
huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh really
yeah
well i saw a few of the uh little coming [attractions] you know it looked really cute
but
yeah
well i've never been to california
i've lived in washington
but not california
so
oh i didn't even realize that that's interesting
um
yeah
i guess so
did you see home alone
oh well i was kind of disappointed in that one
i've heard so much about it that you know it's such a great movie
and you ought to go see it over and over again
and uh i thought it was just kind of like a spoiled brat staying at home and causing a lot of trouble
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i was kind of disappointed
but uh are you intending to see silence of the lambs
have you
yeah
it's pretty intriguing
yeah
it's it's a very unusual movie kind of keeps you
well the first part of it wasn't as scary and intense as i thought it was going to be
but toward the end it got got more that way
yeah
yeah
it really does the only way they can get any information is through someone who's so crazy and bizarre it's hard to tell what he's going to do next
so yeah
it was a good movie
and then i thought sleeping with the enemy was even [scarier] but that's because it was about a man chasing a woman
and that's my big fear so
i was trying to think if i've seen any others lately
but that probably pretty much sums up
i don't get to go to the movie too much
no
i haven't as a matter of fact it's on at the dollar movie around here i was wanting to go
yeah
i heard that was really good
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's the way i as a matter of fact my sister believes in uh ghosts and she said that she thinks that's a real uh true [portrayal] of what it would be like
yeah
yeah
i i want to see that as a matter of fact i intended to go one night and didn't get to
so hopefully we'll go soon
no
i haven't
as a matter of fact i don't know anything about that movie what it it is that
it funny
or
huh
uh_huh
right
huh
oh really
huh
yeah
oh
oh huh
uh_huh
oh well that is interesting
yeah
huh
yeah
oh
yeah
well that sounds pretty yeah
is it something that uh that you could take a child to
oh i have a six and a half year old that probably enjoy that
yeah
huh
oh well
i'll have to have to take her to see that
uh_huh
huh
oh really
huh
wow
that sounds like
that would have been a hard movie to make
yeah
i can imagine
no
i haven't
huh
i don't know anything about that either
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
um uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
well it does sound interesting
i have never been to the [inwood] theatre
uh_huh
yeah
do you go there often
um
yeah
hum
yeah
well it sounds interesting
well does this um
however this is set up tell you when you talked for five minutes
or do you just
oh really
oh that's interesting
oh okay
well i didn't know this the first call that i've made so i wasn't real sure if you if it tells you when you've talked long enough or let me think if i have seen anything else that's interesting
lately
uh_huh
yeah
silence of the lambs
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i'm sure
i haven't seen either one of the other films
she was in
but uh my husband said that he thought she was playing a real different role
in this show yeah
yeah
yeah
i i one of the things that i was really impressed with uh she has to have an accent that she does a real good job with
i
it sounds so real that she sounds like she's from that area of the country
yeah
uh i think it's like in the
i don't know alabama georgia south carolina area or something
it's
and she does a real good job sounding like she's from that area
but uh i thought she did a really good job
yeah
oh anthony perkins yeah
i didn't remember him from anything else
i i'm sure
i've seen him in other movies
but he looked so his his face the entire movie just [haunts] you
and uh he did a real good job
yeah
yeah
there was a big crowd there
i think it's uh definitely getting some good ratings
uh_huh
no
i haven't
oh really
um
oh i didn't realize that
well i thought it was i really enjoyed that movie
i mean it scared me more than the other one
but it was real intense to me i enjoyed it
yeah
yeah
it was it has a real eerie beginning
and the man that she's married to is obviously crazy
but at the first you don't really know about that
and it's real interesting the way it starts out
so uh i thought it was really yeah
yeah
it is it's a lot like that
i thought fatal attraction was a good movie
did you like it
i didn't like the ending though
oh really
um
i didn't know it was based on another film
um
uh_huh
oh i see
huh
huh well i liked it until toward the end i i didn't care for it too much
but
yeah
yeah
and it's kind of unbelievable too
the this woman can live through everything
she lived through
yeah
well i can't think of much else to talk about
yeah
i think so
well thanks for calling
uh_huh
i liked it
i really did
actually i saw it twice my ex roommate and i were real into psychological things we we think people with mind problems are really interesting
i mean you know real psychotic people
so we were dying to see it
so we went and saw it
and i had to see it the second time to get it all because i kept my eyes closed through so much of the first part
well it's it's not that it's that scary
it's that it's so graphic
because uh well are you going to see it
i don't want to tell you how it ends
okay
so some time later much later huh
oh okay
well it's uh what is so weird about it is that it it's a real it's based on real people
and i read the story in people magazine about where they got the characters in the movie
and they're a combination of a lot of different serial killers in real life and so a lot of things that happen in the movie the only thing really scary about it is that it could happen to you
it really does happen in real life you know normally in movies
you can look at it and say well it's a movie
right
right
but in this you're going
i i would have done that i can see where that would happen
and it gets really scary
but it's it's a real interesting movie very thought provoking there are so many things to discuss when the [movie's] over if you're one of those people that likes to discuss things
and think about why it happened i i still talk about it with we'll call each other
now and then and go remember when in the movie this happened
well i was just reading today and things just keep relating back to it i thought it was fascinating
i don't know if you want to go to dinner
maybe just go out for a soda or something
i don't think you want to eat
it is real good though it's it's
i liked it
i liked dances with wolves too though
that was a real good movie
yeah
i didn't think i'd like it
i don't normally like the old west type movies things like that they don't normally interest me
but that one
i really really liked because it it
i didn't know so much about the indians and all that that happened in that part of the war
i had never heard anything really about that before
and this was a whole new idea to me anyway
i thought it was real good
um i'm about a quarter italian and my grandmother on my mother's side is a little bit of everything typical american little bit of indian little bit of this little bit of that
and that's about it
what's do you
oh really
which one were they [sioux] indians or what were they
oh neat
right
right
uh_huh
that was awful
oh i did too
i did too
yeah
uh_huh
it makes you realize how really ignorant some white people are people who have no ethnic background no heritage anything other than just typical americans a little bit of everything
and they don't really know they don't know anything about the indian people they don't know anything about the europeans that came over
you know it really made it seem like we are so in the dark on so many things
right
exactly
uh_huh
and i still really other than just basic ignorance of prejudice
i don't understand why we didn't why them why did we not listen to them
yeah
yeah
isn't it sad to think that that much that greed can do that much to you or to a person
i mean they we wanted the land and we didn't want them to have it so just screw everything
they're going to think
and teach us and tell us
and we could just like wipe out an entire people like that
that's sad
right
right
right
right
right
right
right
that is that's a good way to look at it a [consolation] prize well that's about all it was
that's really sad that things like that can still happen today
after all this time
you'd think we'd a learned something by now
yeah
that's true
he with the most toys i guess
that's right
who's got more hotels i really did like silence of the lambs though that was really an interesting movie
i liked dances with wolves
but it was an emotional like you get real involved and you cried
and you feel sorry for the people and all this
but in silence of the lambs
it was kind of like fatal attraction
did you see that
it was kind of that feeling through the whole thing on the edge of your seat wanting to tell the people what to do next
it you're like no don't go in there don't give him your name
you you start acting it out for them
no
believe it or not the whole theatre got involved
yes
i can't remember which scene it was
but at one point everyone in the theatre [clapped] they were so happy it was
and i thought i was just there
and i heard other people crying when i was crying there were certain parts in there that were real sad
and you hear people when you know the actors are doing things that you know are about to reap some bad thing
and everyone in the theatre will go uh
and everybody does it
it's like the whole theatre you get this big uh sound it was i think everybody felt that way through it it was real involved and all the girls were crying when they walked out
and all the guys were just kind of staring straight ahead like that didn't bother me
and you know it did
right
i remember the first time i saw it was with my boyfriend and he was [joking] with me about how i wasn't going to watch half of it
i was going to close my eyes and there were quite a few scenes where i did
but this one scene i knew something bad was coming
i could tell
so i [ducked] my head and about that time i heard the audience go uh
and my boyfriend jumped he literally jumped and he [swears] he didn't do it
and i felt him jump it really was to this day i tell him he was scared
and he says no
no
you just didn't watch it
you should have watched it it wasn't that bad
i'm like
yeah
right
that's why you jumped yeah
really
it is a great movie you got to see it it is so fascinating to think that there are people that are so so smart they're such [geniuses] that they cross that line
and they're they're psychotic and it's amazing
it really is
i mean to think that it could be anybody we know i mean you could be walking right next to one of them and not even know it because they look perfectly normal
i mean this man was a doctor
and he had patients in fact they were the people he killed you know
and you think right now
your doctor could be [wacko] he could be some psychotic killer and no one would ever know
it's just strange
that was what was that was what made the movie because it's so real
i like movies that are based on things that are real
and what movies have you seen recently
i don't blame you
we're the same
right
there's been inflation all the way along
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
um
well i know that my kids have gone to things that i would never set foot in
but they haven't gone with me
and i haven't paid the bill
so there's there are an awful lot of movies that i just think are uh [unconscionable] to be shown on especially to kids
and i have had to hope that they would enforce the r ratings and not let kids under eighteen in
excuse me
we're having a pollen attack here
and i'm having hay fever excuse me
uh
but anyway um my kids are now twenty one and twenty four so i don't
do anything now
but once in a while
what i try to do is try to [entice] them into something that i think is going to be useful or educational or something
so the two recent films that we have seen where i've been able to drag them along um are the uh henry the fifth the kenneth [bronoff] version and [rosencranz] and [gildenstern] are dead
which were wonderful
both of them were just [outstandingly] good
excellent acting wonderful sets costumes and really worthwhile
um i'm a bad one to ask i don't
oh yes
yes
i know the one
you're talking about hunt for red october
yes
uh yes
well uh my husband went and took his son and he enjoyed it a lot
but i've never cared much for war and spy movies
so they let me stay home and work in the garden
but they thought it was a good movie
and uh i like sean connery so i said if it comes out on video i'll be willing to pay the two dollars to rent it
and then if i'm bored i don't feel like i've lost a lot
and i can turn it off
uh_huh
well i
um
uh_huh
um
well uh i have to tell you a comment that the man whose office is next door to mine goes to a lot of movies and uh he will come back with his [capsule] review and he had said
well it has absolutely beautiful scenery
but you wouldn't like it because of the [cruelty] to animals and any movie
i have to say i where i notice the scenery means i didn't like the plot
so
um
yeah
uh_huh
well i keep telling people that i don't go to movies where there's lots of blood and uh shootings and i certainly don't go to horror films
if they are trying on purpose to scare me then i don't want to go
absolutely not
oh i'll tell you one though that i heard such good things about um oh let's see what was it
um it's a david lynch movie
and it's about sailor
and [lula] they're the two main characters
i can't remember the name of the film now
but anyway got lots of just wonderful reviews
and i had heard that it had violence in it
but i thought well i'll go give it a try
and the first five minutes of that movie were so disgusting that i went and got my money back
i did i told my husband i've got a book in the car give me the car keys you can stay and watch this if you want to
but i don't need this
and i just got up and left
and in about two more minutes
he joined me
and we asked for our money back
i said you know i i realize that this is advertised as an r movie
and i had heard that it contained violence
but i had no idea how
disgusting
this was going to be
and in the five minutes
i watched there was no let up
it was it was just filthy
and now i don't mind uh nudity and i don't mind [suggestiveness] if it's appropriate to the story i'm not a [prude] and i'm not a [prig] but i do not see any reason why you should have one string of filthy language with no intermission in it
and uh graphic violence and blood and uh it total disregard for human beings oh yeah
and i think that's got to be true
if you look at what they produce what they think is the ideal normal person
um
yeah
and most of us aren't that [seedy] at least the ones with the money to go to the movie
right
uh
i heard that was real cute
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
there's a theater here in town that has uh been renovated by a foundation to its
heyday of the twenties
and it has the big old organ and everything
and the big screen and they show only movies made before nineteen fifty
and it is just great
we go to that probably once a month or more uh at the very beginning when they were having film [festivals] like a [katherine] [hepburn] festival and a fred [astaire] festival and so on
we were going a couple of nights a week
and it's great for one thing
it's not
well it's not full of [rowdy] teenagers who are uh [spilling] their cokes and throwing their popcorn and talking all the time mostly
middle age folks who are pretty [decorous] and sit still and listen to the film
and they've got these absolutely terrific prints that are from the uh film [archives] in los angeles that have just been specially restored and sometimes they are made from the original negatives so they're really crisp and good
like they were when they first came out
and you can go to a movie like that
yes
i thought it was good
as a matter of fact uh i was the generation that i didn't think i'd like it
because you know i had seen the original
and i thought
did you too
well i just thought oh if i go and you know see this one
i'm going to be disappointed
but we my husband and i went and we thoroughly enjoyed it
yes
well did you know that the uh what was it you know where they did the arrow through the air
was supposed to be a [promo] and they had just done it to promote the movie
for a t v ad and they thought it was so good that they included it in the movie itself
yes
yeah
won several it was it was it was really good
i'm impressed with kevin costner
i really am
yes
oh he likes to show his rear he did that in uh dances with wolves
if he
doesn't keep getting a tan he'll be in trouble
no
no
those i saw terminator one
and my husband went on
his own to see that one
did it
oh how neat
oh how interesting
where do you
oh we can't talk about where you work
uh i'm trying to think of what else i've seen
no no not
well see my problem is uh i teach school
and so those movies that by the time the kids finish telling me about them
i don't go see them
yes
uh i'm trying to think of what else i've seen uh-oh
what was the one with the guy that had amnesia the lawyer
uh-oh
it was so good
now it's my names escape me uh
oh gosh i might try to look through the paper and see
oh
let's see what we have it was about a doctor who had amnesia not doctor lawyer
and he was a real [hustly] [bustly] kind of person
and then he got amnesia and sort of slowed down and nobody was used to him
he had servants at home and very very rich
and when he went through his thing his whole personality changed
and i'm trying to remember the title of it
yeah
it was regarding henry
okay
yeah
i'm pretty sure he was
and he was like out for everybody's you know to get everybody
and to swing deals
and do things that were borderline he never did anything illegal
but yes
yes
well he wouldn't defend a case because he knew they were lying and he was the one that set up the lie for them
and i don't think so
because we you know doctors and amnesia case too
and then i had seen something on television
so i think amnesia was in this year
what was that again
yes
yeah
that was called the doctor
and that was released after regarding henry
but i didn't go see that because i felt like i had enough of one theme i haven't seen any of the new ones though
i don't know if we've gotten five minutes in
i didn't look at my clock
three
let me check my sheet
then she's going to hate us when she has to [transcribe] all this
okay
let's see
yeah
well i'm looking at the paper
and i don't see anything
okay
but you said you saw robin hood
yeah
i sure did
of course i'm a kevin costner fan
as are a lot of women
yeah
have you are you planning to see his new one
the j f k
yeah
i usually wait for the reviews too
although sometimes i've gone
and i disagree you know with them not usually the paper as much as the ones on radio and t v
i don't always agree with them
uh_huh
oh like the man on the uh i think it's k r l d that reviews movies gave uh star trek the new movie uh like a four or five
and i was surprised because everyone that's a star trek fan that i know that has seen it just loved it
uh_huh
so
don't you think again it's a matter of opinion
uh i don't like always to listen to what someone else says uh because i think sometimes they just don't happen to or if you know if you're real tired sometimes something doesn't appeal to you
that's right
i've seen a couple like that uh you haven't seen cape fear yet
oh it is very very frightening
i mean i think it's more so than silence of the lambs
it's a little bit like that
did you see silence of the lambs
yeah
well it was pretty gory and so was cape fear real kind of gruesome but you know that's kind of like when is he going to die
and probably never which one is that
hook yes
again i've heard mixed reviews on that you know i think this morning k r l d had a gave it a a six or something
which for him is probably pretty good
i guess there will never be another e t
i know that was a classic
and i'm glad they didn't try to follow up with a sequel sometimes it ruins it
well i think so uh it was on what thanksgiving
i was in florida
and i watched it again
have you seen the [butcher's] wife
uh_huh
uh_huh
he does put in a real good
it's a real lighthearted movie if you are uh in the mood to see something just kind of lighthearted you would like it
it isn't a real [thoughtful] picture just kind of fun you know once in a while
it's nice to just go see something that's just lighthearted and fun
that's true
you know
and you have to start thinking about is it is it worth spending the money to go see it or shall i just wait
uh_huh
they really do
and i've never been a star trek fan
but i have friends and relatives that wouldn't miss a star trek movie
um
yeah
well and sometimes you know you miss all the crowds if you don't have to go the very first day it opens
yeah
yeah
i think so
i don't think you need to be one of the first uh do you belong to any of the fan clubs or you know the
uh_huh
oh my goodness
well we don't go to the movie much
but we see quite a few on t v
uh
well let me see
uh i guess the last one we saw at the movie was probably pretty woman
did you
oh i thought it was too
i thought it was a real good movie uh
oh uh_huh
oh i
uh
uh_huh
oh
uh
that's great
i remember that movie
and i remember that it was very good
i don't remember if i saw it or not
uh_huh
oh
uh there is one that uh-oh
let's see my son likes with tom cruise
it's a an airplane movie uh top gun
yes
i thought that was a good movie
yeah
there is a lot of action
but i thought it was an excellent movie
and let's see
oh well now i love all those
uh_huh
oh well that's good
uh i remember that movie
i don't remember if i saw it i saw everything i could see when i was younger
and i remember a lot of them
and i love seeing them again
but i don't think anything will ever top gone with the wind
yeah
we taped it
uh_huh
it really is
anything course with clark [gable] i like
and uh-oh
i don't know
let's i like the older movies because they were just so much more [classier] than what you see today
uh_huh
oh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
yeah
well they could leave out a lot of that stuff
and the movie would be just as good
now uh let's see
i saw that dances with wolves
it was good
yes
no
i didn't think so
and i told everybody that if i had made that movie i could have made it shorter because there wasn't any need to go into that much detail
you know show me one thing
and i get the picture
no
right
but it had a good story
and it was a little different
but it was a little too gross for me
yeah
right
where are you calling from
okay
well we're pretty close then
well you know i've been pretty lucky i've called sometimes eight o'clock in the morning before i go to my office
and i've i've talked to a lady in utah i talked to a man in new york
and i talked to uh a lady in kansas or somewhere
so anyway our topic was movies
yeah
i i'm a movie buff
i can too
i'm a junk movie watcher so but i see them all i see the junk ones by myself
and i see the good ones with my wife
i go see all the shoot them up bang [bangs] and all the uh strong r rated and my wife and i go see the the my girls and the good ones
what kind of movies do you like
yes
i'm sorry
oh are you
okay
so am i
well i sort of well i like them all
but i'm a you know i'm an arnold schwarzenegger fan sylvester stallone fan
and i like detective type uh mystery dramatic types police all did have you all have you seen cape fear
have you
okay
yes
that's tremendous that i'll bet
that'll be equivalent to uh silence of the lambs or something like that
yes
that was great
they yes
yes
it was a great movie
no
i didn't i missed that one
that might be a neat idea
yeah
bet that was good
oh no
it's a tremendous movie
right
yeah
i've seen it two or three times it's such a a great movie
yes
they uh everyone my wife's a teacher and all of her teacher friends are saying we need to go see beauty and the [beast] they say that's quite a nice movie
right
we see them all
see i'm such a movie buff
i go out
i'm self employed
so a lot of times i'll just uh i just have a two person office myself and my secretary
and i'll just uh go out for lunch at noon sometimes go to a movie and come back at two that kind of a thing
oh i probably average at least one and a half to two times a week
oh i enjoy
yeah
i enjoy it
lot of times uh my wife will have to stay after school until seven and i'll just uh leave the office at five go to a movie and come home at seven
and i'll be here when she gets here
no
i will see that though
hook does look like it would be good
uh my wife and i saw my girl
and that was a good that was a good little movie
yeah
it was cute
sure
you bet
that was a little that was a little slapstick you know
yes
but uh my girl will sort of it'll bring a little tear to your eyes or something
it was cute really
oh i understand
we uh
yeah
we see quite a few our daughter and uh son are [moviegoers] and future son in law they're all [moviegoers] so we we just all go to movies
oh i think so too
absolutely
that's what my wife and i do on fridays you know we uh meet at five thirty and uh go to the movie
and then go out and go to dinner somewhere and come home
you bet
well it's expensive to go to a movie
oh i know we take uh my wife and i take my son and her intended to the movie you're talking uh between tickets and popcorn and everything probably forty bucks
because we go we go visit them in lubbock texas
that's where they're at going to school and there's nothing to do in lubbock texas
but go to the movies
and you better do it before nine o'clock right
okay
well i don't see many of the current movies
i usually wait until they come in the second run theaters
but um what what ones have you seen lately
uh_huh
yeah
oh you did
uh_huh
did you like it
i'm not
but my husband is
and he went last weekend to see it too
yeah
he did
huh
okay
i saw that recently
yeah
in fact i saw it twice
uh actually once we were on an airplane
and then the second time
it was at a um it's interesting
it's an old uh theater not a movie theater but like a play theater
that and they've put in tables and chairs and they show movies in there
so it's kind of neat
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
yes
um yeah
it's one of these lighthearted things
it's it's not very serious
but it's it was cute
i really i enjoyed it
no
huh_uh
oh
i haven't seen that
i saw hundred and one dalmatians
yes
no
i went with my next door neighbor
our husbands both said no way
it used to be my favorite movie
when i was little
so
i don't think so
i don't know
but you know
we went for a dollar it was fun
and we enjoyed it
i didn't get bored or anything
either
yeah
we have a real nice one
it's brand new
and um i i suspect it'll be a full priced theater when this highway goes in
but right now it's almost in the middle of nowhere
so it's not very crowded
and it's real inexpensive
and it's brand new
so it's it's a really nice place to go
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
huh_uh
i don't know
i think my husband will want to see it
so i'll do the same thing
i'll wait until it's less expensive
because he said when he went to see star trek he was out in california with a friend
he said it was like seven fifty a person
i think it's about six dollars
yeah
yeah
well i think you can get that maybe on a matinee here
but you know about six dollars is what they're running and that's why i don't
normally go to them
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's right
yeah
yeah
we usually go usually every weekend we go to one
yeah
yeah
well we never used to do that until this other theater went in
and it's you know it's inexpensive
and it's entertainment for night
and um the only thing is that when people at work talk about the current movies
i don't know what's going on
but you know about four weeks later i will
yeah
they have been lately used to be
you'd have to wait months and months and now like i was just looking at the listings now this week they started showing all i want for christmas
and that's a very recent release
yeah
oh i don't know
i don't know
um let's see
have you seen john f kennedy
no
i wanted to go see that one i was hoping my roommate went and saw it
and she liked it
what about um the hand that rocks the cradle it's supposed to be kind of scary
well let's
no
well i mean
um let's see
well actually i have seen one
i'm trying to think of the name of it um
it's got bruce willis in it
and um
yeah
but i can't think of who's in it
but it was real good
no
that was horrible
um it's the guy from the in living color
oh you like well you know who i'm talking about
i'm trying
well i can't think of it
but that was it was really i thought i liked it because it was funny
and they had so many
it was
i mean it was really action packed
and it was bloody but they had a lot of um like one liners and stuff
i cannot think of the name
i'm so bad with names of movies
oh really
do you have children
oh
i hear you
well leslie there's um a ton
gosh that's been out a long time
no
what was that like
oh really
uh_huh
i remember the name of that now it's called the last boy scout with bruce willis and and i can't think of the other name the guy's name
yeah
it was good
i'm trying to think well uh we liked city slickers since you watch um
that's the same same with me
okay
well um let's see
well i want to go see that one
i'll probably wait
until it comes out on video
because i don't think i can get any of my dates to take me
well i told doing it
well
yeah
that's true
well um what about did you see dances with wolves
i saw that two or three times
and then what's the other one kevin costner was in
robin hood
okay
yeah
i've i've probably seen it about three times
uh_huh
yeah
but i like kevin costner
i only watched that once
yeah
and i cried
uh i could probably tell you more that i want to see than i have seen
what about um fried green tomatoes
yeah
well a friend of mine went to see is it
what's the name of it father of the [bride] with steve martin and she said that was real cute
uh_huh
what about the one with um arnold schwarzenegger or whatever
terminator two
well that's good
i cried at that one too
yeah
at the at the end i won't tell you
but yeah
that i saw for the first time uh probably about two weeks ago
uh_huh
that's cute
then there're some what are some other ones i wonder i haven't really seen that many new ones
no
it's too late now
oh well um trying to think what else i've seen that's i guess if i see them it's because they come on h b o or whatever
oh really
well see now edward scissorhands has been on there like every week now
and then well what about the one with tom cruise in it
that's an old one days of thunder really
it well it's okay probably have to be a tom cruise fan
oh really
uh well i like uh i guess i like all kinds of movies
but the ones i don't like are kind of like monty python that type of thing
but i like all kinds of movies
i like to see movies when they come out and uh i generally prefer watching movie that is have the stars that i like like arnold schwarzenegger and that type thing
yeah
i mean those are kind of rough for me sometimes
but i still like him as an actor
so i like watching those movies
uh_huh
yeah
i saw it
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
i don't really like the tear [jerker] type either surprisingly even though you know just seems like i don't know they try to make things sad
sometimes that really aren't i don't know why did you see the movie dad that was a movie that really really was good
and really got me
it was the guy from cheers ted [danson] i think was in it
that was so good
yeah
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh really
uh_huh
see i haven't seen many of those
but i do like them
i mean
no
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
what was the latest movie you've seen
yeah
i've seen all those those are pretty good
i liked the first one best i think
yeah
uh_huh
i've seen like all the movies that come to the dollar theatre
there's a dollar theatre in town
we don't really pay uh five bucks to go to see a movie because they have pretty good movies you know not too long after they've been out at the dollar theatre
so we go there
we used to go there quite a bit
we haven't been there
lately very much
but i think the last movie i saw was awakenings have you heard about that
it was more like a it was a true
it was based on a true story about a about a disease that that caused people to go into like total what do you call it
i mean kind of like a coma yeah
and then they came out of it
i won't tell you the rest no
that was ghost wasn't it wasn't that ghost
i didn't see ghost
but i've it was based on a true story
yeah
yeah
are are you thinking of uh flatliners
that was uh life
yeah
that was good
that was real good
right
well they uh they almost didn't make it back in a couple cases
but uh they came back and their lives were different after that
and all this
it was it was pretty
it was pretty neat
have to go see it
yeah
uh i don't like real scary movies though at all
was it
see i'm not i'm not really into scary
i mean i
uh_huh
um
yeah
yeah
i've never even seen any of those part one or zero or ten
yeah
and they have seven movies playing at once
so it's pretty good selection
and they're always you know top top rated movies
i mean i've seen you know quite a bit
i just saw kindergarten cop there
i guess that was the last movie i seen it was good
i liked that
kindergarten cop
arnold yeah
that was a [softie] movie
for him
terminator oh
uh what was that [flashback] or something like that
total recall
yeah
that was tough
good movie
huh
well i'm going to have to get going
i'm going to have to get going
but have we talked five minutes
okay
well it was good talking to you
thank you
go what have you seen
oh
mine was too scary
go ahead
oh was it good
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
have you seen [paradise] with uh [melanie] griffith and don johnson
no
i haven't seen that one either
i was hoping you
well well i rented we rented my daughter and her friend
i have teenagers
rented silence of the lamb have you seen it
oh it's
yeah
well i probably shouldn't have
yeah
i i don't know that i don't know
my husband chose not to watch it
and he slept all night
and i prayed really hard
that my kids wouldn't have nightmares and i had nightmares for two nights
oh
it's just it's so interesting
but it that is the last one that i saw on home video
well i probably shouldn't have let my younger ones watch it
they are um uh nine and eleven
years old
but and especially after this jeffrey dahlmer thing really had my eleven year old going you know
and it was
and he had lots of questions
and i had to do a lot of [reassuring] but my kids made some really interesting [observations] about how [hannibal] the [cannibal] you know
was uh playing with this [gal's] mind
you know which was something
he was supposed to
watch for
and i mean it was very awful
and you know it teaches them to um be careful of strangers and and
oh yeah
so that would but i have bought [fantasia] for my kids
and myself actually
[kosco] those kind of places
kind of discount places
yeah
oh yeah
but you
yeah
you can just buy now the one i'm buying is a used one which i don't get until december
so people will be using it until december
but i got it for nine bucks
so you know
yeah
well i hope it will be okay
that's the one movie of all movies that i'm going to buy
no
is it wonderful
oh yes
yes
i did see that
oh
uh_huh
oh yeah
sure
oh
angel at my table
okay
we'll keep an eye out for that one
nope
so you like foreign films
yes
yeah
more than washington i'm afraid
right
uh_huh
right
right
oh
oh
and ghost was your one of your favorite
oh
uh_huh
and it was called what truly
truly [madly] deeply sounds wonderful
oh i see
oh it sounds wonderful
uh_huh
his friends
oh
oh
well that would be [comforting] in a way
you know
yeah
yeah
yeah
sure
uh_huh
god i don't have to say kind of caught me off
i'm more of a looks good in the paper commercials look great on tv
uh i did see red october
uh this is going to be i've seen a lot of video lot of lot of video v c r stuff
uh man oh man i have to say uh chevy chase uh christmas
you know the vacation christmas
thing was one here recently we saw at christmas time uh god i haven't been in a movie since
maybe [superman] batman maybe batman might have been one
it's been
i haven't seen any of that stuff
well i love it
we uh got a new baby in the house
and and and she just turned a year old
so it just kind of put the
[clamp] on things uh
yeah
stop by and get them at you know for ninety nine cents
and bring them home
but comedies
and the p g and the no skin uh we're uh know like we saw sally and uh well billy [crystals] in it
we saw that one
and which was video that's that's probably the last movie i went to see
yeah
that's probably the last one
quarter
[promenade] yeah
sure
i mean fifteen bucks to go see a movie with with with a couple's a little ridiculous
yeah
and some of them that turned to [flops] we saw other other other night we saw uh lady in red
okay
which is not that old
but you know
it was bounced around
the v c r cabinet there
and uh but yeah
we i used to really you know i'd just pick up the paper and we'd go see a couple you know three or four movies a month
but no
we haven't i haven't been to a movie in it's been four or five months
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
really
kind of [drab] yeah
it's got to be something fun
you don't have to think
yeah
sure
uh_huh
is it a good movie
great
let's see
uh_huh
probably [overcompensated] a little bit
uh_huh
i think the
now it's all coming back to me
what was the one not the deep
but the [abyss] last year
i think
uh_huh
yeah
i'm not much of a [rotocop] man [robocop]
you know myself this one it wasn't heavy hi [sci] you know hi fi because it was a lot of it was actual stuff that takes place
and they had of course the breathing [apparatus] which was liquid
and and then all a sudden you know when you actually met this thing
and and that that was you know towards like the last third of the movie
only really got strange
but it was uh you know it was cold in the theater
and it's wet in the movie
and they kind of just it was it was comfortable it was easy to go in
you didn't have to think a lot
and and uh you know there is nothing worse than going to see a movie where you have to follow a hidden plot
and it and then you leave the movie like with your brain you got a headache trying to follow this damn movie
yep
specially those intermission movies
yep
course those those dollar and quarter movies
you might catch a spring too
so you
got to be careful great
okay
thank you
sir
the ghost
yes
yeah
i saw it on campus
that's very good
yeah uh
um
right
demi moore and [whoopi] [goldberg]
right uh
i don't remember his name
uh
yeah
right
yeah
i thought that it made you think about um you know what happens when you die and everything
and are there really [angels] and ghost and things
yeah
right
maybe it's really maybe i should take life more seriously
and and be a little bit more careful
but uh yeah um
so let's see what else have i seen
i saw
uh
uh
have you seen one lately
oh i used to
that's a very good show
is that still on
um
um
yeah
got married
gary yes
right
the [longhaired] guy
he did
oh
an image of him
oh like a ghost
oh that's weird
yeah
yeah
well yeah
i know some of those
some of those shows are very moving
um i know i really liked some of them
there there's one about someone got divorced um uh one of the partners right
oh they're back together okay
i've no
i've i've been out for years uh
i didn't think it was on anymore um
but
yeah
yeah
yeah
well yeah
i don't have much time to watch t v
i'm a grad student
just trying to uh just trying to get a p h d thesis out
so
uh
right
right
but we go out occasionally
and um there's some there's some good um sort of [artsy] movies
i saw a computer animation festival it was all about computer generated or else
um actually it was just sort of animation in general some where computer generated and some were hand drawn um
cartoon like things um
and there's some really neat stuff they can do now with computers and and some of the cartoons are just hilarious
um but uh no
it's just there's an annual festival i guess where they they collect the best [entries] and they make it into a full length movie
and each each cartoon is completely independent and separate from everything else
and laugh you know a few minutes
uh but some tell stories you know some are serious
and some are funny um
but uh there all there all fun to watch uh they're they're for you know they're for adults they're not just
kids cartoons they're they're genuine stories
and things
so anyway
uh_huh
okay
so how does this topic get picked did you did it just get picked at random or
i don't know
oh okay
oh okay
oh okay
oh okay
yeah
all right
well nice talking to you
got to discuss movies you seen a movie recently mark i've heard that was real good
and enjoyed it huh
who's the star
but it was good
is it it's not a comedy is it
oh i know uh yeah
i know the movie you're talking about yeah
that guy
and his wife star in it
[brannigan] or something
yeah
yeah
where they were married years before or something
yeah
yeah
i know what you're talking about
kenneth [braun]
oh really
i didn't know the story
but i knew it got a good review
uh_huh
uh_huh
i bet that was
interesting
sounds interesting
well i had the i i read the post reviews don't see too many movies we rent a few of them
we don't go to them
but i do enjoy the movies
i guess the most recent one i can think of that i saw was uh on the on the you know rental was home again
did you see that
home alone
i mean
well it's
been a little longer than that since i saw it
but it was the first time i seen it
and i thought boy about three fourths boy i thought what a i can't believe this movie is so highly rated until about the last ten fifteen to twenty thirty minutes of it then it then i was just rolling in the floor just hilarious
but i was really bored with it for
so long
that would make the movie
yeah
it was just hilarious
but i did enjoy that
well what else have you seen lately
i never have seen any of those they must be good
i like some of those kind of movies
was this one pretty good
it wasn't
uh_huh
oh really
i can't believe it was
so short
uh_huh
uh_huh
and it truly is supposed to be the last of that series isn't it
maybe it's a good thing they bury it huh
oh really
so he's moving on
uh_huh
well it's been
well that
but if you you know if it's probably made him a extremely rich man too
if it's successful
i guess just keep with it
go to a different different territory seem that's sure done wonders for old stephen king hasn't it
writing all those horror yeah
isn't that crazy
i don't think he did do you
that and he's too successful
and and too too warped a mind
yeah
and they say oh that's mine
he stole they're trying to get some money
that's all basically all they're trying to do
i i would think anyway
but uh but i can't let's see
i'm trying to think of another movie that i've seen lately
and i can't think of one
isn't that funny you see you see them all the time
and when you try to recall
uh_huh
well it's good entertainment and it's it's so easy to do
uh
yeah
[blockbuster's] so successful
i we don't go to them
we just go
we don't watch that many
but when we do we just go up here to [grover] because on tuesday they're ninety nine cents each
for all their movies if you get down there in the morning you know you can get some pretty darn good movies but uh but boy [blockbuster] lot of people do go to them
don't they
uh_huh
oh one one doesn't work at all of them
got to have
oh uh_huh
yeah
oh i see
well and it's successful the way they're running it
so can't
knock it
uh_huh
and you live in richardson
well let's see
we're supposed to talk about movies
i don't uh i'm trying just to think i have not gone out to a movie we rent a few
but i haven't rented one real lately
so you name a few that you've seen
and see if i've seen them
i have not seen it
i have not seen it
but i've heard a little bit about it
oh is that right
well i i was just reading about it though
and it's uh it's been a [sleeper] hit it's already [grossed] like forty million dollars
so it's it's actually becoming a pretty good hit across the united states
so they are liking it
and uh it's just i think just a silly entertaining movie from what the articles i've read about it
which you know you go just to be entertained and and people are liking it for that
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
did you
right
oh oh you went out and watched them film
uh_huh
uh_huh
i bet that's true
a lot of wide open spaces out there
i've never been up that direction
i'd like to the main thing i think about is that it gets so cold in the winter up there
wow
and and will occasionally up until thanksgiving probably
well we'll we'll have some cold days you know
like uh in in uh october and september you know we had some pretty cold nights
but uh but uh up until thanksgiving really uh well we usually get our first frost middle of november
somewhere
uh_huh
do you have them three hours
that's the only complaint i've heard about that it's so long
uh_huh
passes fast huh
jeez
oh i like him
everything i've seen him in
i've liked real well
yeah
uh field of dreams
yeah
that was good
i saw that
no
i haven't
i bet it it is
uh i've not even i don't think i've even read a i usually read the uh critics in uh time and people
and i pretty well agree with their thinking on most movies
and uh but i i don't believe i've read one about robin hood yet
it's already it's just released isn't it
yeah
maybe that's why they'll get to it shortly
but uh is it on the video yet
uh_huh
i need to get that dances with wolves
i would sort of like it at first i thought uh i don't know
you know
i'm tired of having these indians everybody pushed down our [throats] how we mistreated them
so and all that
i'm sick of all that
uh_huh
right
pushing a little too far
yeah
yeah
that's that's the very reason i have not even rented it from the video
i i every one that i talked to said yes
you'll love it
you'll love it
and i'm sure i will
but uh
and i'm sure i'll see it before too long
i bet it is
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's true
that's true
you know uh just because our ancestors did certain things
they did it
i think as a matter of survival and not to be
[brutish] to to some other people you know
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
i like julia i like her
i uh i'm trying to think what my favorite with her was uh-oh
what is it
well i guess i feel much more comfortable with with judges
bye bye
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well why was c n n the only  
of course i think saddam hussein only allowed c n n to broadcast it  
is that not true  
it was unusual not to have the different sources you know of news coverage  
yeah  
well i know even if you watched a b c n b c or the other  
i mean what's the other one uh c b s  
they all were were tapped into c n n  
uh uh  
that's the only thing they broadcast  
and like you i listened to radio on my job at work  
and all this week they have been having this uh a discussion about that is why uh why c n n was  
well i listen to a christian radio station  
and they were saying that c n n is definitely a world uh news service  
and uh they  
it was  
you can't really be sure of the quality of what you've got you know  
uh we had some uh some people from our church went to israel uh just for a uh tour sort of thing  
and i was watching on tv  
they they broadcast this terrible riot  
supposedly that was going on in jerusalem  
so we got all fearful for our people come to find out they came back and said they weren't even aware of it  
and so it really made me question as to what how do we know you know uh if the news we're getting is any good  
so  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i i find it depressing to watch our  
specially tv you know  
it's just uh  
local news [concentrates] on murders and things like that  
i'm from dallas  
and uh we have a lot of bad stuff uh  
it just really gets me depressed   even to watch it  
so then you wake up one morning  
and you are in war with somebody  
you don't even even know about it  
so  
uh we have the dallas times herald and the dallas morning news  
but i don't i don't read newspapers  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
i find it hard to uh follow from one page to another  
it's just something i have never developed uh an interest in  
and i live in kind of a bad area where if i have the paper delivered it's stolen before i can get out and get it  
you would be surprised  
they just come by and pick them up even if it's just for the tv you know uh selections of the day  
i don't know  
it just wouldn't be there whenever i tried it  
so you're right  
who would steal a newspaper  
but they do  
what part of california are you from  
oh okay  
huh you work for t i  
huh  
yeah  
well i  
boy current events is not a good subject for me  
i don't keep up with it that often  
this is your first call  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i got into a conversation last night with a lady  
and they interrupt at ten   minutes  
so if we've done our three minutes   let's just let the conversation end and say bye  
nice talking to you too  
bye bye  
the topic is to discuss the uh sources where i receive news  
and uh for me that's mostly newspaper and radio  
i almost never watch television as a matter of course  
so i don't get news from television  
except during the war   i watched a lot of c n n because it was so good  
um  
yeah  
um i don't know  
i guess uh i don't even know why i watched c n n  
i guess i just wanted more news  
it's one of the few times i wanted more news than  
c b s  
were they  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i guess the news just [focuses] on major events that probably   don't affect ninety nine percent of the people who are right there when the news is being made  
but uh i i'm from california  
and i can remember being in uh in these [earthquakes]  
and i mean they were   they were very minor kinds of things from my point of view and it seemed you know from anyone else's point of view  
but they get all blown up in the news um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
well what newspapers uh do you read in dallas  
don't you  
how come  
huh  
gosh that's that sounds pretty bad to me  
i mean who would steal a newspaper  
huh  
i see  
yeah  
yeah  
uh from los angeles  
but i live in raleigh north carolina right now  
that's where i am speaking to you from  
but i grew up in l a  
i work out here  
no  
i don't  
i work for north carolina state university  
but uh i know some people at t i  
and i have a couple of students who have graduated and gone to work for them  
so i'm in the computer business  
well  
let's see i've i've i've never done this before  
i mean i've never  
this is my first call   because i just got my [password]  
so i don't know  
are we suppose to  
it seems to me it says you are suppose to talk for three minutes  
but i think we've been talking for three minutes  
and nobody has interrupted  
i see  
uh_huh  
well all right  
nice talking to you  
all right  
bye  
how do you usually keep up with current events  
do you  
yeah  
i don't usually have time to read the newspaper everyday  
so i try to listen to the radio in the morning and and try to catch one of the morning talk shows  
and then i usually end up flipping through c n n and headline news during the evening  
i always try to read the sunday paper just because it usually gives a summary of the the week's hot events  
so i try to i try to catch that if nothing else  
for for local news i think we do real well where it's  
we live in a kind of small town  
but i think we get excellent local coverage um  
and i like the national news that we see  
we we watch n b c  
and i think they do a real good job  
so i'm i've been real pleased with the quality of the news we get  
how about you  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i think there's enough news out there that they could pass on more [factual] information to us  
and like you said save the commentaries because i'm going to listen to the the news and draw my own opinions  
i don't really need their help to do that  
i don't think radio is as bad to do that as t v is  
uh_huh  
right  
i used to  
but i don't anymore maybe once or twice a year  
uh_huh  
really  
yes  
yeah  
well i had heard a couple of people you know that i had talked to about certain programs say that you know they had read other things besides what sixty minutes presented and that they didn't present it nearly the same way as the you know news articles or whatever they had they had already been familiar with  
so i started questioning just how how bias they really were  
so  
huh  
no  
not really you know  
in the last few years just his kind of informal segments i've seen  
but i never got to see his actual nightly news  
i liked  
i i did grow up with david brinkley uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we   we used to watch um him and i guess john [chancellor]  
and i always liked david brinkley  
and and i used to enjoy john [chancellor's] style of reporting  
but on the nightly news now he goes into his commentary  
and that's where i get get into the problem with with him  
i frequently disagree with his commentaries  
so  
right  
what did you think of the news coverage of the war  
uh_huh  
really  
did that help you understand a lot what was going on your your prior experience with the military did  
i wondered if it would help you sometimes fill in the gaps or recognize [discrepancies] that other people people like myself might not pick up on  
okay  
what weekly um magazine do you look at  
is it  
uh_huh  
sure  
does that give a pretty good [overview] of everything  
or like does it give um i guess little [encapsulated] reports and and then a few big stories  
yeah  
that sounds good if you were short on time you could get a summary real quick  
right  
right  
well we're working on a newsweek uh  
for the last couple of months we got you know an [introductory] subscription  
so we decided to try it because prior to that all we got were things like [glamour] or sports illustrated  
so we decided to try to bring one in that was a little bit better for us so to speak  
it can't hurt  
no  
i i even i enjoy reading t news  
i try to catch it because it's another example  
they just they just show you the words and the facts  
and they they don't offer any commentary  
and it gives me a quick chance to to be caught up during the day because you know we don't listen to the radio at work at all  
so i don't like to go the whole day without hearing anything  
yeah  
and the other thing we have that i like to check sometimes is um talking fingers  
do you have that  
you have different telephone numbers that you can dial  
and then you dial in an access code  
and it will depending on what topic you called in to hear about whether it was the news or the weather or a soap opera update it will give you um updated information  
so that can give you you know current news updates current weather updates things like that  
and it's it's offered through the local phone company free of charge  
so that's   an interesting alternative occasionally that i like to use  
it   it really is   yeah it really is nice i mean because it gives you a wide variety of things you can call and talk and find out about  
so that is something you might keep your eyes open for  
i think it's it's catching on throughout the country  
normally i listen to c n n or headline news about an hour a day  
and then i supplement that with uh radio news from my car radio and from a news magazine once a week   and a newspaper if i have time  
that's true  
and and how do you rate the uh  
are you pleased with the news coverage that you're receiving  
on the whole i'm pleased when i have an opportunity to hear just the facts  
i would much prefer that they keep their analysis to themselves um since i don't necessarily agree with it or it tends to be extraordinarily trite  
uh i think i'm fed up with trite  
there seems to be more and more of it  
and i understand the void that uh comes naturally with both radio presentations and television presentations  
and   as expensive as they are to produce they certainly don't want any dead [airspace]  
i i we're certainly in agreement there  
radio seems to have a full platter or full plate of different things that they need to get done  
they're maybe they're a little more efficient   or have more to do over that same time frame  
i don't know which that answer is  
uh i think the my greatest complaint about news programs is programs like sixty minutes  
do you watch that  
well i used to watch sixty minutes until they did two programs uh that i knew both the people and the incidences  
and i knew that they had presented an extremely slanted viewpoint   that was in my estimate nowhere near truth but was much better for ratings  
and it ever since that time i just don't watch uh  
so i guess we have the the same reaction whether we came about it from the same place or not  
i don't know i don't know how old you are  
but it seems to me like the last uh newscaster that presented news in just the nice simple [factual] way that i wanted to hear was walter cronkite  
so i don't i don't know if you're familiar with him or not  
well brinkley was sort of trying to be in the mold   of cronkite  
and he did a a pretty good job  
the [huntley] brinkley report was quite excellent   over the years  
well once they've reported the facts all they can offer is an opinion anymore  
well i almost felt like it was too much  
indeed i found myself restricting my viewing to a couple of hours a day one in the morning and one in the evening  
uh i spent a number of years in the service as an intelligence analyst  
and i don't need their fill ins you know  
yes  
but i i think it helps me everyday in trying to review the state that the world is in and try to guess where we're going  
well i i think uh my background is probably what absolutely turned me off with sixty minutes  
i like u s news and world report  
at one time or another i've taken them all for a year  
i believe in giving anything a chance  
uh but i keep coming back to that one  
so i that's kind of my favorite  
it's primarily um a few big stories and then lots of high level reports  
uh here's what went on in asia over the past week  
and there's maybe a page of that little brief [paragraphs] unless that was one of their the focus of their main stories  
uh it too is one those  
in the interest of efficiency we all have to find ways  
and i do most of my reading in the bathroom  
um and it's one of those that i can read either an article or a couple of pages of those brief excerpts in the time frame that i'm going to spend in there  
and it just seems to fit nicely so that i can get it read in about three days  
well to broaden your horizons make you think about different things anyway  
well anytime that we stop and think it can't hurt  
oh i'm with you  
i have to check t news every everyday  
it's my [noontime] dose of facts  
no  
huh  
well it does sound very interesting  
maybe our phone company out here will get around to   offering something like that  
well i really enjoy reading the newspaper  
we get the daily uh dallas morning news  
and i try to look at it  
if i get busy i don't get a chance to pick it up like this week i noticed several copies have been haven't been touched  
but  
well not in the morning  
but uh if the  
well i have two children  
and if they uh go out to play or something i like to keep my eye on them so i'll you know maybe go outside and read the paper while they're playing or sit in a chair by the window or something  
uh_huh  
well we i don't take like time or newsweek or anything like that  
but i do like to watch uh c n n  
i have several chores and things to do  
so it comes on at like the nine o'clock p m  
and so i will turn that on while i'm doing some work  
and i can hear the news not have to sit right down and listen to it  
well he didn't have too good of opinion of it  
no  
i mean yes i did hear that  
and so uh i do try to keep that in mind that whenever you're reading a paper it usually has a particular flavor  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
well i wouldn't think i would really say that that's not true because uh it seems like certain newspapers always [espouse] certain candidates  
and so uh news stations always tell the story from a certain angle  
and that's why it's a good idea to get a wide variety of coverage so that you get a lot of different opinions  
you may never get the truth  
but you'll have a variety to choose from  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do too  
do you ever listen to the radio  
or any  
uh_huh  
no  
i don't  
um i really uh have gotten out of the habit of listening to the radio from any kind of even music  
and uh  
yeah  
my husband does  
and it's how come he usually calls me sometimes   and says oh i just heard on the news that such and such happened you know if it's something really interesting  
and   and then i'll know to to keep an eye out for it  
but i've got out of the habit of listening to the radio  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you have a particular local channel that you watch  
uh_huh  
um well i am we're fairly new to the area  
and so we're still shopping   for a favorite channel  
uh_huh  
well i really think so  
i noticed on channel eight that there's all of the uh anchors are seem to be like white anglo [saxon] protestant type people  
and they all seem to be you know fairly similar  
and i kind of prefer a you know some females  
i don't recall that they have any female anchors  
and i like different i like the anchors to be different kinds of people  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have  
and uh i prefer you know to have a little bit of variety like that because i think you're you're more likely to get  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
well we you know  
like all of the stations seem to be pretty good  
it's just we haven't found one that we've [snuggled] into  
houston  
so we had a a favorite  
or i did have a favorite channel that i usually tuned into for local news  
i guess because you get use to you like the anchors  
and you feel comfortable with them  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
their job  
that's true  
so that really effects how they report the news  
is he the sports  
yeah  
i guess it is time to close now so i can run go help put the kids to bed  
yeah  
bye bye  
well do you have time to read the paper in the morning  
you know a lot a lot of people don't take newspapers at all  
we we took the morning news for a while  
and then uh well we've been taking the times herald for ages  
and then uh dog just ran off with my shoe that's off the subject   went outside picked it up and ran off  
anyway uh and then we switched the morning news  
but we found we couldn't read enough of it  
and by the time i got home and had time to to read some  
but but i guess the the issue is uh beside the newspaper do you take any news magazines  
did did you did you hear what schwartzkopf had to say about uh pete [arnett] and uh the the news coverage  
well any you know time magazine and even the news that  
sometimes that  
that's why i like some diversity the idea that i we have time which which we take from time to time  
and we  
the problem is they call up and make this deal you know  
and   well we're taking that  
and and we also hit the garland garland daily news  
i guess it's it comes out [sporadically] like   twice a week or  
but i think what's interesting is that if you're that there uh that as difficult as it is or as as much as they try they put some bias  
i had the chance to hear tracy rowlett speak to a group  
and it was interesting that they think that they're basically impartial  
and that  
but and and you know people accuse them of controlling the news he says you know we don't control the news we just report it the way we the way it is  
and  
yes  
yeah  
and i i thought that was particularly interesting in the the gulf war that there were pieces of information that that were apparently uh leaked just as a as as uh a ploy  
which was uh  
i i find that fascinating that uh  
i listen to k r l d and uh uh k l i f the news talk radio  
and i actually listen to c n n radio  
do you know it was on radio now  
it's on eleven ninety  
well when i go to work i listen  
yeah  
well with with your you know  
if you're around the home though and and and can watch t v and read the paper the problem is is that about twenty minutes of news radio or thirty minutes is  
and then they start repeating everything  
and and so it's kind of a oh  
that's what's interesting is the c n n uh  
i don't think i'm trying to think if it's much local  
i listen to a little of that  
and i listen to a little of ninety point one  
i i'm i'm [inveterate] [switcher]  
that and ninety eight point seven i'm eclectic approach  
well i watch channel five  
but that has to be  
that's another bias  
that has to do with the weather reporting  
i'm not sure that  
actually i think channel eight is probably  
but i know dave fox  
he goes to our church  
so  
well the   channel eight when they came here thirteen fourteen years ago dave fox and tracy rowlett came together   uh from oklahoma city  
and apparently channel eight was way down  
and now they have turned it all around and done a pretty remarkable job  
and then they've been some people move around  
and uh john [chriswell] is anyway the  
i i don't know  
do you do you do you seem to  
can you tell much difference between the local radio t v stations  
i think that adds to the diversity  
i think that uh i like that  
uh there i know you know john wylie price  
i don't know if you kept up  
but he's been protesting  
yeah  
and i think he has legitimate argument  
i mean you can uh  
i i i grew up in alabama  
and so i i have some prejudices  
but i think that i think that that from a a justice standpoint because we have the option of not watching that station  
uh i'm not sure i i'm totally in favor of affirmative action in some of the programs  
but i think that uh in some cases this should be some real opportunity and and some diversity and   and this kind of thing  
and i think that dallas it turns out though from what i understand has quite good  
i occasionally go to saint louis  
and uh there for a few days and watch the news and and think dallas really does have have quite good news  
i think channel eight is the number one uh a b c affiliate in the u s  
i think tracy rowlett was saying that he  
course he pumping his own  
where'd you move from  
yeah  
it is interesting though  
it becomes a little of personality  
in fact the the guy that was on the [weatherman] on channel eight worked for me oh long time ago   twenty years or so even longer than that twenty one twenty three years ago or so twenty four anyway long time ago  
and and shortly after i got we got here fourteen years ago  
and uh they had they had fired him uh because he was too  
anyway didn't he didn't have the personality   and wasn't drawing the crowds  
and that's interesting  
that's that's what the t v stations do  
they're trying to get ratings  
and i think   if we remember that that they're out after the ratings  
well it's like the the dale [hansen] on channel eight is a sometimes a little too [cutesy]  
but   i wonder if we're coming up on ten minutes  
have you talked have you been on the conversation when they beeped you at ten minutes  
okay  
well good talking to you  
[goodnight]  
okay  
my major source of information i guess is t v news  
excuse me i uh wake up to it in the morning  
this is my i guess my prime time for news first thing in the morning while i'm getting ready to go to work  
oh i quite frequently glance through headlines or in the newspaper  
but uh primarily mine is t v news  
how about yourself  
huh_uh  
true  
huh_uh  
well that's true  
but i  
my personal opinion is that the various network news [medias] were trying to interpret the news to the best of their abilities since they were not very well informed by the military  
now i can appreciate that especially after what happened in vietnam  
uh let's face it  
today's uh means of communication we could a newscaster could very well giveaway a piece of top secret information   and uh pat himself on the back for for uh making a good scoop  
very true  
i find t news very enlightening too  
and i check that everyday  
of course with that goes along with the stock price of t i  
of course t news is more or less headlines  
uh i don't think much of their sports coverage  
only give the scores  
but uh that's all right  
i'm not outside of pro football i'm not too interested in other games other sports anyway  
but the uh t news is a good way to keep up to date  
i think they do a pretty good job of selecting the most important items  
huh_uh  
well i spent twenty years in profession commercial broadcasting radio and t v  
and i know what it takes to get some of those little bits and pieces of news on the air  
i mean there there are times where uh the reporter actually will risk is life life and limb  
i've seen it happen time and time again  
and uh well i remember one time up in nashville tennessee  
one of the fellows got mixed up in a riot that was going on down there  
but he was lucky he got out of it for some reason  
because he was carrying a camera  
uh they left him alone  
huh_uh  
nice to talk to you too jim  
no  
oh  
well i'll be looking for it then  
is that right  
well good   you too  
uh tell you what um i'll let you start  
yeah  
i have to have to agree with you um  
i normally don't have time in the morning to to watch any type of t v  
usually catch it going to work on the radio or when i drag the paper in from the front and it catch the head lines which is normal what you see the night before on the evening news  
so i've i've kind of  
we have a one year old in the house  
so it's kind of hard sometimes to watch t v during the night  
but i usually try to catch the ten o'clock or um   those type of  
i have to say during the war we're the american public was probably flooded with too much information  
and as far as the sub question about the was am i [satisfactorily] covered i have to say yes  
but when it came to the war issues who's telling the truth  
between the channels there was uh the casualties the amount of missiles [launched] were different  
and it was almost too much information over communicated  
true  
i agree with you  
yeah  
which is a joke  
huh_uh  
yeah  
that's a good point  
um but i would have to say across the board i'm satisfied with the way uh the news is spread  
um of course here at texas instruments uh the rumor mill runs rampant  
the [secretary's] probably the best resource   of what the layoff status is  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree you  
i think i'm glad you mentioned that because i think i have to since i don't have the opportunity in the morning i'll probably catch the head lines on t news  
that's a good point  
huh_uh  
yeah  
true  
kind of  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
they do  
surely do  
uh anything else crossed your mind  
i guess most of us go by the audio which is the television or the radio  
um but you need to continue to read so you people learn to read you know  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
ouch  
everybody got excited  
that's tough  
that's tough  
well i've enjoyed speaking with you  
did you get your catalog on your your gifts  
really i just got mine in the mail  
so it kind of sparked me to keep calling  
there not to [shabby]  
they're pretty good  
yeah  
have a great day  
bye bye  
where do you get most of your news  
where where are you  
oh yeah  
no  
i'm in san antonio  
i get my news from a combination of sources  
i take the paper every day  
and i read it on the way in to work on the in a carpool  
uh_huh  
and uh and i watch the uh actually i watch the morning news before i leave for work  
and then you know usually over lunch there'll be a big topic of conversation on something   from the news  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um one of the women that i work with her husband is iranian  
so here lately with all the middle eastern news we've had some very interesting conversations over lunch  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i i uh i like the print news   much better than the television news because television news tends to sensationalize  
i understand that the macneil lehrer probably doesn't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they don't report on every murder and shooting that happened in in every little town  
yeah  
i've been getting a kick out of those lately  
although um  
i'm only twenty five  
so i've never actually been through a period of war  
and i don't know anyone in the military  
and i don't have a lot of background knowledge in uh military strategy and and weaponry and and all that kind of stuff  
and i thought the generals were very interesting  
now when they started to [speculate] i i saw that for what is was   and thought all of these guys don't know what's going on  
but i thought they were interesting  
and and they shed some light on what was going on for me  
uh_huh  
you know one of the best television news shows that i saw during the war was a show on a saturday morning on a b c  
and it was for children  
and it was [hosted] by peter jennings  
and it was so interesting because they were relating the war to these children in their studio  
and they also had children calling in live from all over the country and asking questions  
and they they had all their [correspondents] in the different areas in saudi arabia and israel and and all  
they had them all uh on  
i don't know what you'd call it other than on line  
they had them all on hold  
and if a child asked a question that the person in jerusalem could best answer they would cut to that person  
and that person would answer the question  
it was just very informative and interesting  
and uh i was real impressed at how a b c handled uh [translating]   the war for children  
uh_huh  
and our local h e b stores here  
i don't know if it's h e b statewide or whatever  
but they have videos that uh  
i don't know if they still have them  
but they were free rental   videos that had something to do with the war  
uh it was  
right  
it was something for children that they they had several advertisements on television pushing parents going and uh getting the video and watching it with their children and discussing it   and that kind of thing  
well   back during the viet nam conflict that no one will will have the guts enough to call a real war  
uh the that type of technology just wasn't at people's disposal  
so i don't think there's ever been a war that's been so thoroughly covered by the news  
yeah  
i tell you what  
the first three days i was glued to the television  
and i  
yeah  
i tell you what  
the uh the war  
let's see was it a wednesday or thursday  
must have been thursday uh  
and friday night i was i stayed up until two o'clock in the morning sitting right dead center in front of my television just watching practically with my mouth hanging open  
because i was watching c n n  
and they would they would switch back to one of their israel bureaus  
and the people would be standing there in gas [masks]  
and you'd be hearing the sirens  
and it was just  
i was amazed  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
there are two  
and they're pretty close  
uh the one that i picked is more similar in format to the newspaper  
i grew up near houston  
and there are two major newspapers there that run pretty much neck and neck  
and the one i picked here had the same format as the one that my parents took as i was growing up i mean the same type of [typeface] on the headline and that kind of stuff  
it's piddly stuff to pick a newspaper over  
and i enjoy  
the comics are better in this newspaper  
this newspaper has the far side and the comics that i enjoy  
and the other one has some weird ones that i've never heard of  
so  
do you  
yeah  
and my   my fiancee takes probably six sunday papers  
he takes both san antonio papers an austin paper both houston papers  
i guess he takes seven the san marcos paper and the new [braunsfel] paper  
but he's a football coach at southwest texas state university  
so he's getting all the sports sections  
and so you know he has these stacks of sunday newspapers that go [unread]  
i watch the macneil lehrer news hour  
and i subscribe to the paper on the weekends  
i'm in dallas  
are you in dallas also  
oh really  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
i normally find that uh i'm probably the most um news hungry of my friends  
so i don't we don't normally talk about the news at lunch  
i i find that i have to only subscribe to the paper on the weekend simply because i used to get it during the week  
but um i would always end up arriving at work late because i would always end up [skimming] the headlines spending too much time   reading it in the morning  
so i have to cut myself down to the weekend plus after work  
um the macneil lehrer news hour is on public television  
and i enjoy that quite a bit  
uh_huh  
i will admit i work with uh someone who's iranian  
and he definitely has a very different slant on the news  
he's very very skeptical of the news media  
and i will admit i'm reasonably skeptical also  
but he's i don't know uh he's much much more so  
it's sort of interesting though because he does bring a a much um different perspective with all the gulf [goings] on um  
he was always speaking in terms of you know american [imperialism] [reasserting] itself  
um i suppose it's a different attitude that we normally don't hear in the country  
uh_huh  
true um  
the  
they um tend to spend quite a bit of time on one story  
they will have maybe two or three main stories and just spend a very large amount of time  
sort of like the uh what is that a b c's nightline  
well i guess they only normally stick with just the one um story  
but they they can do a much better job since they don't have to chop it into little two minute stories  
no  
no  
it's very much national interest news  
a lot of times they end up um with these panels of experts  
and they go back and forth where everyone's giving some opinions  
and sometimes that  
i don't know the value of that because i saw plenty of jokes and and um oh editorial cartoons about all the retired generals   making a living during the the gulf war  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i will admit it's interesting  
i'm twenty six  
so i don't have any more experience in that than you  
um it it it was very interesting that it seemed like some of the commentators had their [axe] to grind you know  
there were some that were screaming for air power  
there were some that were saying the air power wasn't going to do it  
and they seemed to mold the events to their view of the world which i suppose just about everyone does  
but these guys had a a uh national soap box to stand on and and express this view  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i didn't see anything like that although i did uh  
i guess one thing that i found sort of interesting  
this is getting a little off the topic  
but there was a a a big push with the local t v stations to have little hot lines with counselors   to to help parents learn how to talk about their war with their children  
i thought that was a really unusual thing  
uh_huh  

with the children's aspect  
uh_huh  
i suppose that is a valuable service  
again not having uh lived through another war i don't know if that's a common thing that people thought of  
or if that was   a new concern with people  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that's true  
and probably more importantly one that lasted short enough that that people's interest didn't flag too badly  
i will admit the same thing  
and i   would come home and flip on macneil lehrer  
and they would run these extended two three hour versions of the program  
and i i was just i was horrified and fascinated by what i was seeing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i didn't have that experience  
i i don't have cable  
so i i'm pretty much limited to p b s which i thought i thought they did a very good job  
um i've got one question for you  
i you say you take the newspaper  
um i i found the newspaper situation in dallas very interesting  
we've got the one fairly well relatively weaker paper the times herald and then the morning news which has a very strong subscription  
does san antonio  
you said san antonio right  
do you have just one paper  
or do you have several  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i actually take both newspapers on the weekends  
i figure i'm only taking on the weekend  
and i can afford that  
i i find the news reporting in the morning news to be better  
but i sort of have a liberal political slant  
and the morning news just has an incredibly conservative editorial um outlook  
i get the times herald just to balance that out a little bit  
uh_huh  
are you a t i  
or  
oh really  
that's great  
uh my daughter talked to a student  
uh in general most of them uh people doing this are t i  
but i guess customers too huh  
yeah  
t i got uh a lot of advances in it really  
uh hopefully this will turn out to be a good program for us  
we sure need uh the business  
okay  
current events  
uh you you've got the question you can go first there since i called  
huh that  
you're the opposite of me  
i drive an hour each way to work  
and so if i just use time  
and not say one which quality is the best  
i guess that would be two hours roughly of talk shows and news on radio  
and then newspapers and t v would be tied after that because maybe i'll catch the the evening news like ten o'clock on t v  
and i  
so that's a half an hour roughly the same with newspaper  
i really  
of course you you're in a different part of the country  
i i really listen to a lot of the talk shows i don't mean the [gossip] ones  
but there's a lot  
of on the weekends when i do chores or whatever  
i'm a radio hound i guess  
i take the radio with me when i'm working on my car the lawn or whatever  
and turn on  
they have everything from lawn work lawyers news uh [veterinarians] all kinds of items uh  
so i'm i'm a real radio buff especially on the when i'm doing chores  
yeah  
i find it surprising because a lot of times it here you know  
i'll talk to some people here  
and i'll mention someone's some talk host  
and i'll expect them to have an opinion on why i don't like him and don't listen  
they don't even know   you know what the guys name is uh bruce williams who does financial work all over the united states  
most people haven't heard of bruce williams  
you probably haven't either unless you're a radio buff  
he is in new jersey and is [entrepreneur] and kind of a self made millionaire  
and he has it  
i  
well it's five seventy here  
i'm trying to  
it's on cliff  
i don't know what the  
he's on all stations  
you might remember the name bruce williams  
and he he is again national and talks about a lot of financial things  
but the here i just get a kick out of uh  
well we do a lot of gardening here  
so there's  
we have an excellent gardener here  
has three hours on sunday and three hours on saturday  
of course that's not exactly current events  
but i i'm i am kind of a radio buff  
for music  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's good  
actually  
oh that's good  
my wife always wonders about that  
she says look at that person he's driving and reading at the same time  
yeah  
right  
we get  
go ahead  
good point  
that's a good point  
oh yeah  
it comes and goes  
yeah  
local you mean  
yeah  
yeah  
don't they have city council meetings and all that  
are you into any of that what what's going on in the city council and the and the school boards and all that  
we have that addition to our paper  
okay  
you get it from people then  
yeah  
right  
my wife and i you know as mentioned  
the question was uh do you get it from people too  
and and i can say the same thing you do that uh my wife is uh she reads the paper from front to back  
and so she'll tell me some stuff  
and she'll always get mad and say you didn't read the uh  
well i always read the sports uh  
what am i thinking of uh the commentaries  
i can't even think of what it is offhand  
and she's always reading something  
and she says why haven't you read that  
and i say i never have time to read it like you do  
but i always get a lot of my information from the   newspaper through her  
uh so i guess we do get it from people too  
oh you mentioned c n n of course i mentioned radio and the c n n t v news you know  
it's the same thing that's on the radio word for word  
yeah  
it   well it is c n n exactly   uh because uh  
and it  
because uh  
we have it here at work as a matter if fact at t i  
we have it in the break area c n n  
and but the reason i say that is on the radio they'll say and look at this you know  
and when i first heard c n n it only started about uh since the war you know or right before that  
and they would always say and look at this  
and there would be a [pause] you know   would be music and stuff  
and i realized that it's the exact commentary that you have   on the uh the news  
yeah  
yeah  
but it's still good  
it's still uh uh you know  
you don't really miss anything  
but i do do enjoy since the gulf war listening to c n n radio too as well as watching c n n on t v here at work  
i don't have c n n at home  
let me turn this radio off  
i'm actually at work right now believe it or not  
uh where was i  
i'm  
go ahead  
your your turn  
yeah  
i've i've heard that  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i never get home early enough for those five and six o'clock  
okay  
no  
i'm not  
and i think a great number of students who got word of it and participated in general and [voiced] who heard about the program  
i rely primarily on uh newspaper combined with television  
uh  
okay  
that's rather interesting  
i'd i'd have to say i haven't either  
i listen to the radio uh probably five or six hours a week  
but almost inevitably to a station that is a classical uh station here   for music purposes  
we don't use the radio as a wake up  
we have our a television connected to a uh uh electronic alarm   uh system that [kicks] in  
and it comes on with c n n in the morning  
that  
we we wake up to television news and uh uh shower and dress and whatever to that  
and then because of the fact that my wife and i ride to work together uh in a car   we we chat at each other rather than than something else  
uh and occasionally what we'll each do depending on whoever is driving is have the newspaper sort of on our lap on the way in in the car  
so we have the advantage of being able to uh read and drive although there seems to be from what i've seen on the freeway recently that a fair number of people are reading and driving  
so we we rely pretty pretty heavily i think on a combination of the of the two  
i also uh use uh newsweek magazine uh  
we tend to alternate between newsweek and time and whatever happens to be the   the uh news magazine of the year for us  
and uh i read [sporadically] of commentary and a couple of other you know trade magazines and uh uh such as that uh where i might read the the occasional social and even current event commentaries and and everything as diverse as a c m to uh uh some of the uh some of the other [tabloids] i get  
so uh i guess i use about eighty percent written is probably my input and twenty percent uh television  
i   i think i respect the from a [journalistic] perspective current events  
i've always said that it it's really not interesting unless it's three weeks old and found its way into a news weekly headline  
uh other than that it was a at best  
uh we're probably not thrilled with our only newspaper that we have in raleigh  
there there are other uh uh  
i'm not sure what you would call them they the small uh competing independent sort of newspapers  
little small weekly things  
but there's only one daily uh called the news and observer [fondly] referred to here by some as the uh uh sometimes the noise and observer  
uh it depends  
it it's has decent national coverage but has an extremely focused political coverage probably [steeped] in   the southern history and the fact that this is a democratic state  
and uh consequently everything is filtered through that uh republican democratic sort of   glass almost [unnecessarily]  
so  
yeah  
we we have  
that is uh  
as a matter of fact they update it once a week with a special section  
we and we pay it sort of [glancing] [nod]  
we uh have a very good friend who is uh tapped into the city planning structure uh our [developer] architect friend  
and  
right  
so i think we find out what's happening in the city uh on a fairly frequent basis over a over a gin and [tonic] sort of thing  
uh and that probably gives us a better insight as to the city of raleigh than than the paper would have anyway  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is that right  
i   i'll heard there was some stuff on the on the radio that was equivalent to c n n  
okay  
okay  
oh  
that didn't uh  
uh_huh  
uh we probably were listening to c n n fairly heavily before the war broadcasts began  
uh we almost live and and [breathed] it for because during the war itself to the point where we began to sort of have household pact of lets turn the war off and get something done  
uh almost an addition uh  
and and and we could equate or relate [relay] well to some of the newspaper and television articles about the fact that people where having this problem in in [unhooking] [uncoupling] from the events and going on with their  
so  
instead of being watching the missiles and being glued to the tube or whatever uh  
and because of that we began towards the middle and of the war i guess about two and a half or three weeks in we began to restrict our news almost deliberately where we would uh watch uh fifteen minutes before fifteen minutes after six our time which would be national news or our local news  
we would watch c n n until six thirty then we would watch uh a rotating network news of either uh a b c c b s or n b c  
and we we sort of just [rotated] around the dial each night a different one  
and   we would watch the first fifteen minutes  
and then we would turn the television off  
and we were sort of limiting or [dieting] ourselves on on news that way  
and then we would do a similar thing uh at uh ten forty five because uh c n n would be [wrapping] their hourly coverage up  
and then we would get the local coverage uh  
and then i think the local coverage we would tend to watch the same station that would would have better state coverage rather than local coverage  
uh three of the networks here on their local news uh  
that  
if if you wish to listen at eleven o'clock you can find out who raped who murdered who or stole what   from whom  
and that was the sort of thing that i would say is the best  
and not news  
unless there's some trend or something that says jesus this neighborhood has been hit forty seven times or whatever uh that's that's sort of more of of a pattern news  
go ahead  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess that's the way i am too  
i sometimes i hear some things on on the radio  
i only get the newspaper on the weekends  
so  
uh_huh  
i   i guess occasionally i'll hear someone at work say something though  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i i guess it's pretty good  
and and like the dallas area  
and i i guess when you're in a big metropolitan area like this  
there's i guess a lot of pressure in that business to   borderline at that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
true  
i'll bet that was the case of the the war in the middle east  
uh_huh  
true  
trying to think what else is     is current  
well um i don't know what to say  
uh that's a bad one  
they uh  
looks like we're going to have an income tax in texas  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
i would think they could find a better way to fund it though  
but they haven't for  
well they're struggling with it  
uh_huh  
true  
i i'm not sure there's a positive solution for that  
trying to think what else is current  
well the other thing i can think of is uh what is still going on in iraq   and the [kurd] refugees  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it begins to make you wonder why we didn't go ahead and go on in and   finish the job while we were in there  
uh_huh  
seems to have helped him though   popularity wise  
hm  
yeah  
were were they in any of the areas where they   some of the [scuds]  
um  
um hum  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'll bet  
i don't know anything else that's current other than the weather  
and  
have have you all been getting rain storms down there  
we did we did last night uh some real massive thunderstorms  
apparently i i don't know if it was just the strong winds or some small tornadoes up this way too  
caused some damage  
we may get some more tonight  
uh_huh  
well the the ground here is so flat  
and it's all [saturated] now  
we're getting some flooding  
hm  
goodness  
yeah  
it's a lot more humid down that way  
in fact miserable  
yeah  
i think there were places around downtown fort worth last night they got three inches in a real short period of time like an hour or so just   a bunch  
well i guess that's it  
that's about as much as we can do with current events  
good talking to you [michelle]  
bye bye  
oh um uh i usually don't get to hear any of the current events probably until about the ten o'clock news  
uh you know being uh  
i mean by the time you get off work go by and pick up the uh baby from the baby sitter it's you know after six  
and by the time everything is settled in  
it's ten o'clock before i can catch up on anything  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh uh_huh  
oh i don't even have time to read the newspaper except in passing  
you know i'll look over my husband's shoulder and see what's going on  
but uh  
yeah  
we have uh a news thing on the computer that uh that i'll i'll try to look at every day  
and uh it it's pretty much headline news  
which isn't you know pretty much what we look for anyway  
but uh i do you think that the quality of the uh the you know the news events that you get are  
what do you think about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know there's a lot of competition in the media  
and sometimes i think it too much trying to figure out who's going to get the best headlines and that they'll run a topic into the ground  
and uh you know they try to play public's opinion which i think is awful because it usually works  
yes  
uh_huh  
that  
uh lots of new uh newsmen were created during that  
so it will be interesting to see what happens  
right  
uh uh  
yeah  
i hate to see that  
but it's uh that you know if what it's going to take  
well you know we can deduct that from our income tax our federal income tax  
but uh you know but we need good schools  
uh we're more involved in that now  
and i i i i think it's better for everybody if we had better schools  
so  
no  
you know i wish they could have gotten a lottery  
yeah  
i think you know the lottery could have helped with that  
i mean it wouldn't have been as painful as what we [would've] paid in state income tax  
i mean probably would have paid the same amount  
but you know it's not the idea of your paying uh income tax  
so  
no  
it'll be interesting to see what happens  
i you know i haven't seen the news in a couple of days  
so it uh  
i'm a little behind on things  
yes  
that's that's sad  
yeah  
they uh yeah they had to choose between the better of the two two bad situations  
and   uh i don't know what i've would have done in the situation  
yeah  
right  
but i understand why bush you know doesn't want to go in and and uh take sides  
i mean because that would definitely look like another korea  
and he'd have all these people jumping down his back even though i'd agree with it  
i think he ought to [should've] gone in there and blew them away  
yeah it it   it did a lot  
he did a real good job i believe  
i have uh in laws that live in saudi arabia that stayed there during all of it too  
it uh it uh you know  
we so we kept very much abreast of what was going on  
yeah  
they were on   the the near uh [dahran]   on the   on the east coast  
they were just north of it   probably about a hundred fifty miles hundred miles from uh the kuwaiti border  
uh and they stayed active was the uh the military there taking supplies out to them in the desert  
it was it was a new situation  
i don't really have much more to say  
you're right  
and that's that's awful in texas  
we got some awful rain uh the other morning  
and today's just been real [drizzly]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it did  
oh well we we've just got slight chances of rain  
but uh we had the we had the hard thunderstorms the other morning  
course while everybody was getting ready to go to work making nice traffic [jams]  
so  
oh  
right  
uh when was it last week we had all the rain  
but uh  
we i think we had about eight inches  
it was between six and eight inches here where we are  
and uh it you walk out on the ground  
i mean you  
i mean it's awful  
it's just so [soggy]  
yeah  
well today it was i mean the air was just so sticky so damp  
goodness  
right  
well it's  
right  
well it was nice talking to you  
all right  
bye bye  

well [myrna] how do you get your news news  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm pretty much the same  
i uh i find that uh  
i'm a graduate student  
and i i read a lot for school  
and i find i have no patience to really read a newspaper because i just i'm reading so much all the time  
and i really enjoy just sitting down and watching a news broadcast  
uh_huh  
yeah that's true  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
i i agree  
that's  
a lot of times i eat while i'm uh watching the news  
yeah  
the same thing  
is there any uh  
what did you think about the coverage like over in the uh persian gulf  
yeah  
i thought so too  
it was it you know  
for a while when we were really interested uh we saw it all the time  
some of the stations i guess carried it for twenty four hours for a couple of days there  
and then you know the special reports and the extended news coverage i thought was really good  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
just news  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
huh well that's great  
uh_huh  
yeah  
or if you have a break in the middle of the day you take a coffee break you can always stay informed  
yeah  
that's really good  
that's um i've found that when i i don't have cable television anymore uh when i moved went back to graduate school i just didn't have the money to buy rent a cable t v line or whatever you know  
so i don't get c n n uh which was a big disappointment  
i used to watch  
that was my  
if i wasn't home  
i'm a college teacher  
and sometimes i teach in the evening  
so i'll miss the evening news  
and uh you could always catch a good news program at eight o'clock or nine o'clock on c n n  
i think that's   that really has changed the way uh i look at the news  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's uh same  
yeah  
that's  
when i had it i i watched it you know religiously for half an hour  
and then you could go on you know to do what else you wanted to do  
yeah  
i find i i read very little  
i don't even get a regular newspaper and uh because uh i i don't drive that much  
i only live about a mile from where i go to school and work  
i uh i find i spend so little time in the in the car that i don't really listen to the radio you know  
i don't  
so so television is my main new source  
uh_huh  
oh really  
to commute to work  
oh  
yeah  
i can  
the van pools i know that  
and i'm in the baltimore washington area  
and i know they do van pool a lot here from some of the outer areas  
but if you want a nicer home you know beyond the suburbs you know  
i  
that's necessary  
yeah  
i am i am right outside baltimore  
i am less than a mile from the baltimore line  
and i go to a a campus of the university of maryland that is just less than a mile from my house  
so i i'm actually in baltimore  
yeah  
you could say i'm in baltimore  
oh really  
in baltimore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's that's that's a really nice area bethesda area  
uh_huh  
it's um it's funny  
there's a big difference between baltimore and washington even though they're so close  
there's only an hour less than that between the two  
but there is a big difference in things like property values  
and um the closer you get to d c the more expensive it is  
and um the the uh different slant  
washington it really is a uh uh an international city where baltimore is hometown baltimore  
you know it there's really uh  
most people have relocated to the washington area you know  
yeah  
that's  
i i like it i like it a little bit better too  
it's interesting though um to meet different populations  
i i'm just now being uh from pittsburgh originally  
i'm just now meeting different populations like chinese students and things  
and i find that really interesting you know to imagine  
here is somebody that was in china two years ago when all that was going on in in uh beijing  
you know that that's an interesting uh interesting perspective  
but i i really  
much much like the hometown area  
yeah  
and i think that also goes  
it's funny  
you you can watch different news  
i can watch washington news or baltimore news  
and i really do watch baltimore news  
you know that really makes  
i don't really bother with the washington station because i just it's so far removed from what i'm interested in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they in fact they just it was just a big thing recently  
they've had some terrible problems with hispanics  
um they had to impose a [curfew] that uh in two of the areas in uh in the washington suburbs  
the mayor  
they've gotten rid of that really bad mayor and then uh brought in  
yeah  
and then came a woman that's um  
she's big in the democratic party  
so that's good  
so she has good national ties  
but she also was um something like a uh state auditor or something like that before this position  
she was a state auditor  
i guess she was an auditor general or something like that for the district of columbia at washington  
and then she left that to get a position with the democratic party  
and now she ran for mayor  
so she's uh [fiscally] she's pretty tight and uh she's cleaning house  
an and it looks like hopefully she'll do a nice job uh for washington you know which is  
you sort of feel sorry for a lot of the people there  
you know from what i pick up on the news uh it's a difficult process you know to get rid of a a bad mayor  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but those are germantown is a nice area  
it's a nice area  
yeah  
well they might be car [pooling] too  
do they car pool in  
are they driven by themselves  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
they didn't call you for mother's day  
you weren't home  
yeah  
oh that's good  
well i guess we should stop now  
uh_huh  
oh good  
uh uh so do i  
i've become very aware of different political views because some of the things we have to discuss are very politically motivated or whatever  
i i really enjoyed it  
it's it's so funny when you live in one part of the country you only see that perspective  
it's interesting to see the the wider world  
so i enjoy it  
hey thanks a lot and and bye  
uh most of it is from the radio uh   and also from the news programs that we watch in the afternoon  
we usually watch the local news and the the uh national news both  
well you can always get up and leave that  
uh i i just don't seem to have time to sit down and read the paper  
either  
by the time i get home from work   it's already you know time for the news to come on  
so it's so much easier to sit there  
and besides i can be doing other things and still listen to the news  
yeah  
i think they did a great job  
uh_huh  
and you could always find some channel that had something on  
but you didn't necessarily have to watch the same thing all the time  
yeah  
i noticed that one thing that that t i did you know they had uh uh they used to have well they do have television monitors stationed throughout our buildings  
and they used to have a program called t news and just updates of of different things that were going on within t i  
well when all the the mess with uh uh in the persian gulf came about they started carrying c n n  
well now they have had so much good response from this   that t i now has c n n on all the time  
so we can always run upstairs and you know   get a quickie update on what's going on if we really want to  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
we don't get it either  
we live out in the country  
and we just don't have it available out there where we are  
but when we did have it uh we that's what we usually watched   was c n n  
and sometimes we'd watch the weather stations  
yeah  
oh i get that too because i i'm in a van pool  
and i'm in the van you know uh two hours a day  
an  
yes  
yes  
and in the in the morning i try to sleep because it's it's dark thirty  
but in but in the afternoon uh i try to read  
so i can can uh not pay attention to what our driver is doing  
yeah  
are are you in baltimore itself  
um  
yeah  
i have two kids over there  
well no  
in in d c area  
yeah  
one works for the state department  
and uh uh the other one is uh uh her husband is in the navy  
and he's stationed at bethesda  
an  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
i'd i'd rather have baltimore with the home town atmosphere  
well most of what they're talking about in washington is is the crime problems that they're having there  
uh_huh  
i heard about that  
yeah  
well i know both of my kids didn't want to live anywhere around the the downtown areas  
they both moved way out  
i think one of them lives in germantown  
and i can't remember where the other one lives  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's means they have to drive a little bit  
but  
uh well now i i think he carpools  
because he's got fairly regular hours since he came back  
but uh now my daughter they have probably been carpooling together in fact  
because she had been called back up active duty  
and then she was supposed to have gotten out of active duty as of last friday  
so i haven't talked to them this weekend  
i don't know what the situation is  
but she was  
we were gone  
uh  
no  
we weren't home  
but she had she had called and left a message on our recorder  
but i had that from all my kids except for one  
so  
well i thank you for calling  
i have enjoyed it  
i really do like this program because i get to talk to people from all over the united states  
yeah  
thank you  
bye bye  
okay  
um  
i get my current events basically from news uh just because i watch   pretty much a lot of television um  
uh  
i watch a little bit of everything  
i like to tune into to c n n because uh you know you can tune in like any time of day and pretty much get the update on   everything   in about five or ten minutes  
i think news today um it's kind of losing its importance  
like on in on radio if you hear any news at all it's like two seconds  
you know really quickly   on regular stations  
yeah  
that's good too  
uh_huh  
i like k r l d  
uh_huh  
yeah  
where do you go to school  
oh okay  
i went to u t at austin  
but uh i'm a news reporter  
so i i should get all i can my news from the from the t v  
but um  
yeah  
i usually don't intentionally although i should i don't intentionally turn on the television to watch news  
or i don't intentionally turn on the radio to listen to the news  
if it comes on i just happen to hear it  
now i will intentionally buy a newspaper to to to look at the news  
but other  
yeah  
that's true  
that's about it  
the sunday paper it's so full of stuff  
but you pick your favorite section  
and the rest   you throw away  
although you paid what almost two dollars now to get it  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is it is it pretty good coverage on there  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
because i find like on k r l d  
i like to listen to that  
but each story is like no more than two or three lines you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that would probably be better  
especially when you look for the like popular radio stations like mostly the music stations news is is pretty much nonexistent  
they have little little teeny [weeny] news   breaks you know  
yeah  
yeah  
basically  
yeah  
so let's see um  
uh_huh  
the only reason i get trade journals is like if i'm looking for a job or something   which is what i'm doing now  
but um  
yeah  
trying to get out of wherever they are  
but um i think i think news is  
i'm wondering where it's going  
you know how  
i think it will be pretty much nonexistent except maybe through the paper  
i know the newspaper used to be kind of the only source for news  
and now it's it's kind of your final choice  
you watch  
first you go to c n n then you go to radio or something like that  
and i think it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so much more effort  
yeah  
yeah  
but i think that soon the paper may be kind of the only source again  
i don't  
well just because i'm i'm thinking that it it's getting so short on radio  
you still you have two or three  
i know in dallas you can probably get two two all news radio stations out of i don't how many popular radio stations  
and then on television you have just the news at six and ten  
and i just i just see that dwindling in in  
true  
yeah  
true  
that's true too  
yeah  
than sit down and take the effort to read   the paper  
one thing i like about the paper um as opposed to television is that uh when i like when i report because i'm in television i have to get the basic the main facts and that's it  
that's all you have time for  
whereas in the paper i like to read the articles because they get every side every single side  
and and every point they make you know   and and it's all there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
because that's what we do  
i mean it's like each story is thirty seconds you know  
so it's like you really have to tell as much as you can which is not much in that amount of time  
so and it will probably get shorter and shorter as the years go by i think  
i don't know  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i think that is one good thing one great thing about news  
and we saw it during the war just now is that we got all the information within minutes you know  
whatever happened we knew about it about the same time that they knew about it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because even though we do get the story right away they were [censored] as to what they   could tell us  
so all we had to sit here and and ask is well what aren't they telling us you know  
so that that was pretty scary  
but we  
i talked to one woman  
and she said that she didn't want to know what was going on because if she had a son over in saudi arabia she wouldn't want to know you know that they're bombing or or this and that's going on  
and at the same time i talked to another woman  
and she was so happy to know because she lived through vietnam  
and she didn't know what was happening at that time  
and she was so happy to get the information you know  
so there's just a lot of different opinions on that  
but  
yeah  
and then too a lot of times i think uh especially on television they blow things completely out of proportion  
like  
you know like this kennedy thing  
it's just i mean everywhere you turn  
kennedy  
kennedy  
kennedy  
you know what kind of shoes did he wear on the night  
and you know it's just like okay this is ridiculous  
so  
but what are you doing  
sitting on a computer  
i heard the little [clicking]  
oh okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
take care  
uh_huh  
bye  
okay  
i guess we're set  
current events  
television news  
is it uh c n n or headline news or just local   news  
or  
right  
right  
right  
well  
on commercial radio i guess i i tend to get more of my news from national public radio of the morning on the way to work   or evening on the way to school  
so   so i don't uh   i don't see much t v mostly when i'm in school  
but i do here  
uh university of texas at dallas  
right  
really  
i do tend to throw on headline news when i'm doing things around the house and just let it play   and listen  
but uh  
right  
yeah  
all i ever get out of the paper is a sunday paper  
so   i read the comics  
that's about it  
yeah  
right  
right  
i like to listen to uh national public radio on the way to work because it's i don't know it's variety  
and now   they're throwing in a little news and a little bit of other stuff  
it   tends to get like headline news if you listen to it for an hour  
yeah  
it usually is  
they throw in a lot of you know a lot of interviews and commentaries  
it's kind of like getting a newspaper  
there's a lot of   sections to it  
and   they they present different sides of things  
oh well they spend a little more time you know  
they cover the headlines  
and then they go into a lot of the issues and   things where they they spend five or ten minutes discussing something and   interviewing people  
and it's  
yeah  
yeah  
and only in the morning i guess there's a little bit  
i haven't listened to a top forty radio station in so long i wouldn't know  
so  
and i guess i get some kinds of other you know business related news through trade journals and things  
but  
uh  
right  
yeah  
a lot of people are  
yeah  
where nobody wants   to sit down and read  
it's it takes a lot more time to read something  
and you've got news   [bombarding] you from everywhere now  
you know you   turn on the t v turn on the radio  
why is that  
yeah  
i just  
i find it hard to believe that people will go back to reading over television i mean just given the way society is  
and i enjoy reading  
but most   people would rather turn on the tube and and and   flip through the channels you know and get the headline news at thirty minutes of  
right  
and they don't have to go get one you know  
right  
right  
right  
well that's why i like uh national public radio   because they get on one of these little things  
they give you headlines that are brief  
just  
they touch on what's going on  
and then they'll get into something and really explore it  
and it's it's informative  
it's a lot more informative than you know quick half hour news shows that   they tell you what they want you to hear  
right  
yeah  
there's so much going on in the world  
communication you know expands the world now  
there's too much going on  
you can't afford to give more than a couple of seconds here and there  
yeah  
and the question is how much of it or how some of it  
i guess there's a lot of debate about [censorship] and   and what we're really seeing  
is it is it the true story  
or is it a   little bit biased  
right  
right  
i i you know i like to to know what's going on  
sometimes i think there's just a little bit too much  
you know you get in the habit of like i say turn on headline news  
and it will play over and over  
and you just tune it out because it's the same thing  
but  
yeah  
they tend to   [dramatize] things  
yeah  
like who cares  
really  
well  
yeah  
trying to do some c programming  
okay  
take care  
bye bye  
well i i do about the same i guess but in a different fashion  
i i i'm from new york originally  
and now that i live in florida  
i live in the florida in the winter and then go back up north in the in the summertime  
and i i feel that the the only legitimate paper although it might sound   a little elitist is the new york times  
i've always read the new york times when i was younger  
and i try  
now that it has a national edition i read that  
i also read uh i i i guess i do watch uh mcneil lehrer on p b s   because i i lean to that coverage  
and and i guess i'm  
yeah  
well there  
it's a whole hour show  
actually it's an hour show each evening  
and and we we turn it on when we start dinner  
we seem to start dinner around six and finish it up  
i find that i'm leaning on uh  
i travel a great deal uh even overseas  
and i find that i lean on uh c n n quite a bit for [concise] and quick stuff  
and i'm i i'm quite satisfied with the way they put it out  
i mean i i don't believe everything they say  
but it's it's coverage you know  
yeah  
yeah  
uh  
well yeah  
i i i uh  
peter [arnet] was reporting direct from uh iraq  
i think   this is scandalous the way everybody's picking on him  
i i think that what he he reported what he saw  
and if you didn't like it that was just too bad you know  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i mean uh  
no  
that that's right i think so  
and and i guess when it comes to um to magazines i don't read  
i used to when i was younger  
i subscribed to time and u s news and world report  
i i have seemed to slide away from that and rely more on the local paper  
or i i i also subscribe to something called world press which is   a magazine that only talks about other excerpts from the world press  
which sort of gives you a different slant than  
it's not as slanted as the new york times or as biased perhaps as the local paper  
but uh that i guess and the radio  
uh i listen to p b s radio a lot  
and i also listen to uh these twenty four hour news stations when i'm driving  
i  
yeah  
do you read  
are you from southern or northern california  
so well  
yeah  
is that   what is that  
the san francisco paper out there is uh   the major paper  
yeah  
and that's a terrible paper  
is that pretty good  
oh the what is that the chronicle isn't it  
oh  
oh yeah  
they they really are probably the worse papers i've ever read  
i uh uh  
yeah  
well can you get the l a paper up there  
that's a pretty decent paper isn't it  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's another one i read  
i forgot that  
i read the wall street journal  
not as in depth as i used to because they their articles seem to be getting even longer and longer  
but  
yeah  
i i think i i agree with you that the problem seems to be they don't have enough time to do all the stuff  
i feel pretty well versed in in what i'm doing because i i do spend more time on that than i do say on sports or   although i watch that  
i spend a lot of time reading about these things  
i'm quite interested  
i find it very exciting to for the coverage we have now today  
if anything they i think they  
well i don't know  
i i hear a lot of [criticism] about listening to these the dan [rathers] of the world and and and taking their word for it or their comment  
actually they i think they slant things  
but  
no kidding  
oh wow  
i didn't know that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
was was he  
yeah  
how do you feel about it  
i guess i i got to say if that's the subject if the subject is do i feel that we're well enough equipped to  
i don't know  
if if it said that i feel i'm well enough equipped  
yeah  
to  
yeah  
yeah  
i think i do too  
i think you have to let you got to [segregate] some of it  
well that's about all i have to say  
nice talking to you  
bye bye  
i think i get most of my news uh in headlines from the radio  
and then i follow up by reading the newspaper and news magazines about things that attract my attention  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i like them  
but they take so long  
i don't always   have time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think c n n does a pretty good job  
i had not watched them very much except when i was abroad   until the gulf war  
and they seemed to have the best coverage  
they had more information sooner than   most of the other networks  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh i know that the coverage he was allowed to present was slanted  
but i think they said that frequently enough   that uh you shouldn't criticize the man   for giving us one perspective  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we have a c b s twenty four hour station   that i listen to on the way to and from work  
and  
northern  
i'm from uh   the peninsula  
palo alto  
well  
it's horrible  
the san francisco paper is just [wretched]  
so i subscribe to the san jose mercury news  
palo alto is about midway between  
well it's a whole lot better than that san francisco paper  
and  
yeah  
there's the chronicle   and the examiner  
but they're uh both run by the same  
they're just [horrid]  
so we read  
uh we can  
but i don't like it  
so we subscribe to the new york times   and the wall street journal   and uh mercury news  
yes  
well again i read that uh   two columns on the front  
uh_huh  
yes  
and i think we do get pretty good coverage  
i don't feel that the american people is being [shortchanged] by the uh the news coverage  
we almost have too much  
well i cannot stand dan rather  
i remember him when he was a local newscaster in houston  
and i hated him then  
and i would not watch that man for money  
and he and barbara walters just really turn my stomach  
so i watch peter jennings and uh   and tom [brokaw] sort of [alternately]  
do we get enough news or something like that  
do we get uh   do we get the news that we want  
and i do  
i really think  
yeah  
okay  
well nice to talk to you  
bye bye  
well i usually keep up with news by watching a b c news on television and reading the papers here the local dallas morning news  
and then i also take the wall street journal  
yeah  
well i well i  
at the office i generally catch the wall street journal at lunchtime  
i use part of my lunch period to uh read the wall street journal  
then uh i read the the newspaper at home generally in the evening  
i'd rather sleep the extra thirty minutes in the morning  
yeah  
yeah  
that's uh what we do to  
it we're never in home in time to really watch the six o'clock news on television  
so we catch the ten o'clock news  
but i catch the news on the radio coming to and from work  
but radio news is is rather short uh  
most of the news stations most of the stations here that are not all news stations you get about five minutes on the hour  
and if you catch the news stations uh you don't catch that much in the car  
yeah  
but uh  
yeah  
i have the same situation  
i tried the news magazines like time newsweek u s news and world report  
and they'd just stack up  
i wouldn't find time to read them  
you have to have time to sit down and concentrate on on the stories  
or   all of a sudden you look and there's three uh three weeks worth laying on the coffee table  
and you wind up throwing them out without reading them  
because it's too much trouble to try and catch up  
so   have to depend  
i guess we're becoming more of a television oriented nation in that i don't think that uh my children even read newspapers other than the t v guide section  
there's is all uh strictly television news  
oh yeah  
yeah  
right  
it's the same   thing with the news magazines like time and and the other magazines  
it's hard to uh to celebrate to separate the news from the comment because   in the way it's presented their opinions is print or presented as being the news  
and so then you have to try and sort out what really is the news  
that's right  
right  
well so many of them also come through  
and they have discovered that this is the most popular issue of the time whether it be the homeless or uh cancer or whatever  
and then they devote uh an [inordinate] amount of time on the news cast to their personal [ax] to grind  
and uh uh   particularly the local television uh i know the the [wednesday's] child bit  
and they'll take up ten minutes of a [newscast] and leave out something  
i'm not saying that's not important  
but they leave out a real news issue to devote to one of their local pet projects  
yeah  

that's yeah that makes sense  
we uh again  
like i say by the time i read the newspaper it's the the it's that [morning's] news from the day before  
and i'm reading it in the evening  
so  
i'm a i'm about a day behind most of the time anyway  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we we  
yeah  
yeah  
my wife and i feel that we never have a moment that we can call our own  
it's always there's something going on all the time uh  
you don't really have time to sit down and and thoroughly read a newspaper  
as a matter of fact i read the sunday paper this evening  
we had such a busy day yesterday  
didn't find time to even read it  
yeah  
well that's about all then  
nice talking with you  
same to you  
bye  
do you get a chance to do it at home  
or do you mostly like catch up while you're at work  
do you have a chance to look through the wall street journal  
i'm not sure what you do  
um  
well  
i understand that  
well and you have a little bit better newspaper  
the dallas morning news is a good paper  
lubbock is kind of small  
and the a j uh kind of dominant  
there's no competition so what you get is what you get  
we used to take the paper every day  
and i finally quit taking it because it stacked up  
i never got around to reading it  
and so i try to take you know weekend papers  
and then during the week i catch up you know on the radio on the way to work or if i'm traveling around at lunch or on the way home  
and hopefully i'm sitting down by the ten o'clock news to where i can kind of get a [recap] on t v uh  
no  
yeah  
it is  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh it's frustrating to me because i really wish that i did have more i don't know uh what do i want to say i wish that i was around more news  
it's frustrating when i don't know what's going on  
i feel like it's hit and miss  
and i haven't found anything yet that keeps me there on a constant basis  
somebody will say oh did you hear about this that happened last week  
and it might be local  
and it might be national  
and i'm like no i missed that one  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
uh-oh no  
a little bit that worries me because i feel like the news is so biased  
and yes  
they report facts  
and yes  
you can get an idea of what's going on  
but you know it's an  
and i wish they would just report the incident and then leave the commentaries out  
but so many times you get well uh this is my opinion of what he meant by that  
and i'm like who are you to judge you know  
just report the facts  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
and i feel like they sensationalize things that shouldn't be [sensationalized]  
i feel like they focus too much on things that i don't know you know  
so much during the gulf war they would ask questions that uh you wouldn't want broadcast  
it's like if you tell us the answer to that you're telling our enemy what your strategy is  
but they keep asking these questions  
and i thought it was really well i don't know [asinine] actually  
stupid  
uh_huh  
yes  
i agree  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
and it's frustrating  
so i guess i guess when i get to listen to the news it's it's probably television or radio  
i see very little paper  
but i i don't get to see that as much as i want  
and when i do i'm wondering why i wanted to see it so bad  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
well i'm glad  
it makes me feel like i'm not alone though in the world  
i i used to think that i was probably the only one that just i don't know was running around so much  
i look at other uh women workers or men at work   that have kids and families  
and i'm like how do they seem so together all the time  
i always feel like i'm running a rat race  
so i guess news is just part of that rat race for me  
yeah  
exactly  
well  
yeah  
that's incredible too  
well i appreciate talking to you  
have a good evening  
bye bye  
wondering how you keep up on the news  
uh_huh  
i guess the i get the washington post  
and that is a pretty big newspaper  
and i think that's almost exclusive me my first of the news  
though i have the radio on when i go to work i don't think the news usually hits  
because i'm not going right on the hour  
you know  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
i think that you know we we've resolved the issue  
and that's what we were asked to do  
right  
right  
oh okay  
well thanks for discussing it  
bye bye  
primarily with our local newspaper and t v  
i listen to the radio but not um not like i did when i was working  
i am recently retired  
to that means i have a lot of time to watch the news on t v  
how do you gain your news  
okay  
oh i see  
well that's that is one of the handicaps with both t v and and radio  
if you're not available on the hour or half hour then you lose out on an awful lot  
well what is your newspaper  
that is the washington post  
is that correct  
i have read that when we were in that area  
and it is a [splendid] newspaper  
so what more do we need to discuss   tonight  
that seems like a very short one  
well i can discuss a lot of the news that we have  
but uh i feel that that's not part of our   responsibility  
so thank you for calling  
all right  
good bye  
okay  
um i very seldom read a newspaper  
i get most of my news information from t v  
mainly um if i'm really wanting an in depth thing i'll watch c n n  
and i find it one of the best  
and uh otherwise it's just one of the regular uh channels eight or five  
and uh where do you get yours  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i take the dallas morning news  
and and my husband uh he reads it cover to cover  
and uh if he thinks there's something that i need to know about he'll say you know here you need to read this  
and uh   i don't know  
it  
i kind of quit reading it oh i don't know several years ago when the kids were teenagers  
it just seems like i was so busy all the time  
and if i wanted to read i wanted to read something light and relaxing and   and uh things like that  
and so i  
and it got so depressing  
seems like it wasn't anything but bad news  
yes  
yes  
i i will pick up if there's something really gruesome in there  
i'll go through and read it  
uh but i find that i do better with oh remembering it and everything if i watch uh the t v   you know  
and and they kind of [capsize] it   and everything  
and watch  
and i think sometimes it's you know   maybe a little biased you know  

something  
and sometimes   you don't you get the [sensationalism] as opposed to just pure facts  
you know  
yes yes   you found some members of your church that had been murdered  
oh the same type of church  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i used to uh  
or i didn't used to  
but uh  
when my grandchildren had uh have stayed over before and even maybe when our kids were younger one of the channels used to give brief [inserts] of news at a child's level  
and i thought that was very interesting  
and i thought that was very important for kids  
like they brought down something that had happened like if there was something going on uh in the war they would bring it down to a child's level in words   you know that they could understand   what was going on  
and uh i noticed that my grandchildren seemed to kind of enjoy that  
the oldest one he's   nine  
and uh he would particularly enjoy this  
been a couple of years ago  
and uh i thought i think that's really interesting  
actually i even understood it better  
yeah  
yeah  
you know and uh but as i said uh i you know  
i i have kind of a [blase] attitude about uh news and news reporting which is is not good you know  
nobody should get that way about the news   and what's going on in the world  
yes  
we like channel eight  
we like it  
it's the best  
is that been   your favorite  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i very  
and i thought it was very interesting uh  
channel nine watching it when the murders were in killeen  
and and going on  
they were having news coverage  
and  
no  
it was channel nine  
and you know they have that hour that nine to ten   of an evening  
and so we had the t v on  
and we were trying to catch all of it  
and they were showing some  
and i was watching  
my husband and i were watching it  
and then we switched over to channel eight  
and the difference in coverage was unbelievable  
i can understand why channel eleven is uh you know why they're kind of behind  
did i say channel nine to begin with  
no  
okay  
no   channel eleven i meant  
i was thinking nine to ten  
but channel eleven  
uh_huh  
it uh  
but the coverage wasn't near as good as when we you know switched over to channel eight  
and they didn't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh mostly from t v too  
i usually start watching the news at five and watch it at five thirty and six   sometimes and and then again at ten maybe just the headlines  
um we do take the dallas morning news  
and uh once in a while i'll sit down and read read it you know  
but not very often do i read the whole thing  
quite often just scan through the headlines  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
if there's something you know that i want to know more about or  
might be the killeen murders  
i've been kind of intrigued  
i guess it's kind of the [sadist] in everyone  
you just  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
i wanted a little more detail like you know  
they would tell more about the people that were killed where they were from and how old they were  
and i guess you just you know you   you just want to know  
and with interest you know i found some people that were members of our church which was different  
and that made you even feel a little more [kin] to to what was going on  
well you know of the same same type of church that we belong to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so that made it a little more and that they were from utah also  
so  
so that was interesting  
but i enjoy the news  
i i think our seven year old even once in a while will sit down and watch it   with us  
so  
no  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's nice sometimes when they   they pull it down a little bit like that  
right  
right  
oh do you have a certain station you like to watch when you watch it  
or  
do you  
um channel five for some reason has always been   the one i watch  
i i don't know  
it's probably the anchors  
they just kind of catch you  
i don't i don't know  
uh_huh  
the c n n is that what that is  
huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's   why i wondered  
i don't get that channel  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that is if you if you want to go to bed early  
it's nice to to to watch that early news   sometimes  
so  
well you keep up with current events  
not  
is that right  
yeah  
where whereabouts in pennsylvania  
where in pennsylvania  
oh do you  
well great  
how's uh  
well no  
we're not supposed to talk about that  
we're supposed to talk about current events  
well i'm a current event junkie  
so i i watch i try to watch the news  
and i read the newspaper  
and i like to read time magazine and people magazine to keep up with what's going on in the world  

well i just pretty uh little you know about everything  
and not   and then again not everything  
but you know i like to know pretty well what's happening  
political things don't interest me a great deal except i do like to stay informed enough to feel like i halfway vote [intelligently] you know  
but uh other than that uh i just you know  
just the events that happen around the world interest me   stay in touch with it and know feel like i know what's going on  
now i have to say all three of my children none of them are too interested in current events  
but i always have been  
and i stay up with it  
but uh how do you how do you uh stay aware of most of the current events uh newspaper   t v news or what  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's good  
well you stay up with it pretty well then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh you've been there  
well you would be interested in it then  
yeah uh  
i follow it you know  
i don't just read everything about it  
but i'm always aware of what's going on like that  
and uh because it is it's interesting  
and uh i don't know  
i feel sorry for those people down there  
they've just been so terribly mistreated for so many many years you know   i mean   through [papa] doc  
i mean he was   a terrible [tyrant]  
and i think it's been better since he died  
but it's still been bad  
but uh even that priest that was in control there for a while that they [overthrew] uh  
i've read some things about him that he was he wasn't too good himself  
yeah  
he was pretty pretty much a  
he didn't mind having people bumped off for certain things you know  
but uh   it's one of the reasons the u s wasn't so you know didn't do more than they did at the time   because they weren't all that excited about him although he's probably better than a lot of them  
but uh but then again who you know  
those people are so used to it  
i guess it's the only thing that works  
i think it's pretty darned good  
i think we're lucky to have as good a coverage as we have  
i really do  
now i they sometimes they jump on it and and and go a little to the extreme  
the media does  
but uh but that's kind of understandable because you know of course if you watch it more more than once a day i mean it's the same thing over and over and over and over  
and i listen to the radio  
so i you hear so much  
you get a little tired of it  
but then again so many people you got to understand only catch it once a day maybe  
but i think the quality of our uh our news is just uh i don't believe it could be better  
i really don't  
i don't think so  
i don't think our news could be better  
i i mean i mean what else could they do to make it better  
i don't see anything that they could do  
well you always   want to think everything can be improved upon  
i understand what you're saying  
but by trial and error over the years i think they got it about as good as they're going to get it  
uh   nothing is perfect  
uh_huh  
well that's true  
i understand what you're saying  
and then again i understand why they can't dig too much deeper  
that's why we have c n n  
c n n has the time since that's all they do is news   to dig deeper  
um somewhat  
yeah  
somewhat  
not as well as i would like to probably  
but that's the way it goes  
what  
um state college  
i go to penn state  
yep  
right  
exactly uh  
i see  
well what particularly are you interested in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i see  
uh_huh  
um   uh well some of both  
i read i read the newspapers sometimes  
and i watch c n n that sort of thing   occasionally  
and i read magazines and such  
well yeah  
i mean not not that badly   anyway  
so i am i am interested in what's going on  
and i'm particularly interested in certain things of course like all the news about haiti recently   because i've been down there  
and yeah  
right  
exactly  
yep  
uh_huh  
that's true  
they've never really had a good leader  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so what do you think about the quality of news coverage in america  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yep  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know i think it probably could be it always could be better  
but i   would agree that it's pretty good  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
well i think that um  
i don't know  
the um  
right  
right  
i think that  
well that may be so  
yeah  
i think that   i'm not always satisfied with how dig they deep into the   how deep they dig into things and such  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
all right  
i guess tonight's subject is to discuss current events and how we keep up on current events and if we're   satisfied with with the uh   coverage that we receive  
um thinking about it some of the ways i try and keep up on current events is uh i enjoy reading the newspaper but uh quite often don't have time to read all of the newspaper  
and so uh i enjoy watching some of the t v highlights and also uh some of the news periodicals uh weekly magazines  
and uh at work i also have uh management summary reports that uh give basically a lot of the current events  
uh how about yourself  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
oh yeah  
okay  
you think that that's uh pretty adequate coverage  
and you get  
uh_huh  
it's historic events huh  
oh okay  
yes  
yeah  
um i found out too that uh quite often if i see something on television that i want more in depth uh understanding or or get want to know more about it that the the newspaper or uh i read newsweek can give you a better and more thorough coverage of what i've heard on t v  
but uh um i found out that also on on t v that you can scan through a whole lot of different things on c n n  
and and like you said the the news shows that are that are happening  
and you can read some more about it if you want to  
um i found out though that  
or i feel that a lot of the stuff on t v and the newspapers is negative  
there's an awful lot of negative news or bad news or or bad news  
and it'd be refreshing once in a while to hear some good news  
and uh  
yes  
we do  
true  
true  
uh_huh  
i've heard an interesting comment also that uh with budget cuts and uh expenses the way they are that it's affected the news media whereas before they would be able to have a in depth analysis or uh [investigative] reporting on certain topics and issues  
but that takes time  
that takes an awful lot of money and commitment  
and and quite often it's a lot easier to listen to the police [scanners] or what they call ambulance chasing  
and go after you know it's lot easy to go after and follow a fire department or a police officer and uh find out news from that as opposed to going out and finding good things  
so i don't know  
i guess the economy is is effecting also the news media  
and we have to pay that price  
but uh i don't know  
i don't know  
it's interesting  
and i think that nowadays with communications the way they are also that we can see global events happening as as they occur   all over the world like the  
exactly  
we saw  
yes  
you know twenty years ago thirty years ago we wouldn't have been able to have that privilege or or luxury to to view that  
so  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
right  
that's  
right  
well i'm like you  
i don't i don't i like to read the paper  
but i basically don't do it every day  
and i um i usually watch uh either good morning america or the today show every morning   while i'm you know  
whatever i'm doing i watch that  
i usually watch the news either at you know early evening or at ten o'clock  
so i get it from t v a lot  
i get time i read time magazine  
um that's one i read pretty regularly  
and uh   the thing about it you know now that i've found is that we get such good coverage on t v or at least such i don't know attempted [thoroughness]   of coverage by the time you get the time magazine   there's nothing in it you don't know  
right  
then you can just sort of have pictures to go along with it or something because really i've thought lately there's nothing new in the time magazine  
you know it's it's basically you've heard everything  
and uh you might you might get a little more thorough uh account of something  
but really um i don't know  
so i get most of mine from television  
i would say  
right  
and i i think there's an attempt to do that  
you know i think people  
there's a mild attempt for that  
but i think basically we basically associate news with bad news   or or [catastrophes] or problems or [crises] or uh you know  
i think our concept of news isn't necessarily events that happen  
it's more negative like you said  
but i think people try to on on t v i think they try to throw in good stuff  
but it doesn't uh it doesn't sway the vote  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
you know the war last winter was certainly a good example of that   because we saw every single thing practically  
i mean you know i remember well just the things that are covered  
i remember watching the world series during the earthquake   and just seeing that happen  
i mean you know that was just so phenomenal to see this stadium shake   and the and the [announcers] you know grabbing  
i mean it's like that was just something   because that was like live and real   like you said  
and then of course one thing i think too is with  
so are you a news person  
yes  
yes  
great show  
yeah  
so so the real the real current news and the hard news   is is not there is not really enough of it there  
yeah  
i've had i've had that frustration too  
i   end up switching stations from time to time  
uh in general  
uh i   watch a lot of c n n   uh and c span  
uh i i subscribe to three newspapers  
uh you know i sort of can't get enough of this  
and and i when i travel elsewhere i'm often amazed at the local papers how little they have   of world world events   and national events  
well in in dallas what are the what is the newspaper situation  
was was that the the better paper  
or  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but if you if you were to look at the front page of today's morning news   morning times rather would you would you see things about what is going on in europe  
oh  
whoever troy aikman is  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess it's current events but not the kind of current events that changes the world  
yeah  
yes  
a lot of them  
i i rather like the washington post  
but i also get the new york times and the wall street journal  
uh and uh each of them covers different things in in   in different ways  
and so it's you know if i only looked at one of them i would have a different clearly would have a different perspective on the world  
that that is certainly true  
uh they will they will have articles  
like a few days ago they had a a nice article on einstein you know   theory of [relativity]   you know that started on the front page ran in into the full almost full page inside  
now these are feature kind of articles  
all the all the uh you know the bulk of the paper certainly is about business kinds of activities  
but but there is some very good other articles   uh you'll find in the in the journal  
uh i wish it were in more depth  
uh that doesn't mean to say longer  
just more facts would be nice  
uh c n n has has you know was was pretty good during the war  
uh and they were you know sort of had a unique vantage point for for doing that reporting  
so but you know it's not it's never quite  
uh i really am  
i enjoy i enjoy listening to the news and getting as much as i can although you know i'm a full time student  
and i work full time too  
so or not full time  
but i work quite a bit  
and so   so i mostly depend on the radio you know on the way to work  
i like i like to listen to national public radio uh all things considered  
yeah  
and i like to listen to that and catch you know  
i don't get i don't get a lot of uh sometimes i don't get the current events you know because that show kind of has feature stories that might not directly deal with uh you know some important issue on the day  
but  
yeah  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you you you like n p r uh programming  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  

oh yeah  
oh yeah  
well we we we have a a big newspaper situation  
uh because we used to have two newspapers up until uh last sunday  
and a uh major uh a one of our major papers just closed down  
they closed shop and said well we can't put any more papers out  
we're done  
yeah  
i thought so  
it was a it was a more effective paper as far as i was concerned  
it it had uh uh it got to the news you know and gave you the dirty facts pretty quick and easy   uh which i like  
i don't i don't like to you know i like to save the editorial information or the the politically uh [weighted] information you know for the for a different section  
i like just to get to the you know find out what's happening   pretty quick  
and i feel that the other newspaper uh  
the the dallas morning news is the one that's still here  
the times herald is the one that closed up  
and uh the the morning news was was is okay  
but you know you have to wade through a lot of editorial garbage as far as i'm concerned  
you know many times it doesn't doesn't reflect my own opinion  
and  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
that's the problem  
but you know you see you see troy [aikman's] knee surgery on the front page you know  
yeah  
a a quarterback for the broncos or for the for the cowboys  
uh you know you know you know what i mean  
that there is uh local news that uh that really a lot of times doesn't doesn't change change my life one way or the other  
so uh  
right  
right  
yeah  
not something you'll you'll uh be interested in ten years from now by any means   you know  
how how about you  
uh i guess in washington d c you guys have several papers that are pretty   pretty effective   don't you  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh i i have a question  
uh does does the wall street journal uh  
i i've kind of gathered lately that uh maybe their information is not just only related to business  
is that is that a correct assumption  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
wow  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you find that you're uh uh disappointed or pleased with uh uh the performance of like network coverage of news  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
definitely  
uh_huh  
well uh until recently i was taking the wall street journal  
and i thought that was a good way  
but i have about five different magazines that i get that keeps me up on things  
you know it's a week or two late  
but uh that's how i'm staying up  
uh do you like how it's presented on the news  
so it it makes you feel like they're uh wanting you to take their opinion  
yeah  
i've noticed that too  
and it's kind of [distressing] isn't it  
and they just i've noticed that they do it just with subtle little words uh usually uh just that sway the whole uh report that you know by just a couple of words  
so communications huh  
were you looking into becoming a reporter  
or  
uh_huh  
i bet that's a interesting job  
yeah  
there's one that i'm reading right now  
it's information week  
it says a t and t to account for the the benefits that the a i c p a now says you have to show as a liability  
it's going to cost them seven point five billion after tax charge in ninety three   to account for that  
and it'll drop their earnings by a hundred million a year forever more  
yeah  
it is  
and yeah you have to stay up on stuff  
and i bet in your your job that you have to  
do you read the wall street journal  
can you think of anything that could be done to make our news media more accurate and objective  
i guess they do that so they don't get [scooped] you know  
so they have the big story  
what what  
how do you get your main source of current events  
i either watch the news  
or or occasionally i'll read the paper  
um no  
i think the [media's] a little bit too [manipulative]  
they allow you uh  
they they try to lead you too much i believe  
and sometimes they're not very open  
i i don't know  
i think they're a little bit biased sometimes  
like for example the kennedy the kennedy rape case  
the coverage on that was you know  
when it first happened it was he was guilty he was guilty he was guilty  
you know they try to have you form opinions or whatever  
and then i i didn't like the the things that were going on when we had desert storm and stuff like that  
you know basically i i i think they don't present the the whole sides of of everything  
right  
it's it's it's instead of reporting the news it's more like an editorial i believe   on a lot of issues  
yeah  
well when when i was in school i um i was a communications major  
so i i i'm well aware of the little subtle words and [persuasive] speaking and and so forth  
i was  
and um i i ventured off in a whole entire different field field  
i went with the state  
and uh i um went with the department of state treasurer in retirement disability  
calculate benefits  
yeah  
so the  
so and you know working you know working for state government you hear all about current events about things going on within the state itself  
so that that's another source that i i where i keep up with current events  
and  
it's a lot of money  
it's a lot of money  
no  
well no  
i i i primarily deal with the state employees  
but i i find interesting tidbits in what the news reports as far as the like the state of north carolina's budget and stuff like that  
and i really know what the budget is  
and and uh uh when they were saying we were so poor and they couldn't pay taxes and pay people their income tax [refunds] and things like that  
and you know i'm well aware of the billions of assets that the state has  
and it it's just funny  
you know so that's that's that's  
so i don't have a whole lot of faith in in you know the news  
course it's  
they they get what they hear from  
but you know it's not always i i think one hundred percent reliable  
i think they need to do a little bit go into a little bit more depth uh before they would just report like somebody wants to make a statement or something like that  
because i mean another example is the uh aids issue or whatever  
you know someone said oh i found a cure  
they immediately  
the headlines on the news or whatever is someone says they found a cure for aids  
and then two months later it's discovered it's not you know  
before they before they come out with something like that they need to to research the matter i believe a little bit more  
well that  
well yeah  
i i  
it  
i think the  
um no  
i don't watch much t v  
sometimes um usually the reason i will turn it on is to hear the news  
but i don't think of that every day even  
um i think i get most of my current events  
well i get them from everywhere  
i sometimes watch t v if i  
i guess i watch t v if i haven't read the paper that day  
we don't get a paper  
but i work um at a  
i teach a college class  
and uh  
there's a  
the library has a paper  
and so i often drop in on a break and   and read it  
and i keep the radio on quite a bit when i'm home  
and then i i figure if there's big big news i'll hear it from my husband when he gets home or   someone else you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what's your favorite news  
do you get a news magazine  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we've got  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
are you satisfied with the quality of coverage  
yeah  
it's kind of hard to know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i do feel like a little bit like  
being from california and wanting to hear like  
i've heard through the grapevine sometimes that there's been an earthquake or sliding or something  
and  
i don't ever hear it in the news here  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i sometimes feel like um the dallas paper and the dallas news um the top headlines are always a murder you know  
that   that's because there's a high crime rate  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
that's true  
we certainly get enough coverage  
i mean we we can get news  
you know i mean there's even the c n n channel   where we can get world news twenty four hours a day  
yeah  
yeah  
often times  
so yeah  
well no  
i guess we can end  
yeah  
it's just whenever we're um  
yeah  
have you always gone until the recording  
uh_huh  
i guess we're not supposed to  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
interesting  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i guess i can just say i it bothers me that i hear a lot about um you know on the news that  
well it seems like i don't know some things are [sensationalized] or some things are um  
you know you'll hear one report  
and then you'll hear that it you know they didn't um  
okay  
what um  
do you watch much t v  
or you know  
the news  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
now i also  
i get it from all over  
i watch the news every day  
and i we have a news  
you know we get the newspaper and uh   um magazines anything  
you know i'm  
i read a lot  
so i get  
um you know i'm i'm really up on uh current affairs  
i get you know   the news and and everything  
um well i'm not getting  
no  
i'm not getting any news magazines  
but um you know as as i said i do  
it's uh it's easy to keep up on current you know   on   you know especially when you um   you know you get a paper every day  
and uh  
uh i don't know  
is there anything missing  
i you know  
and i don't know you know what what's i mean what are we supposed to uh compare it to   you know i mean the quality uh  
whatever they tell you  
you know i uh i guess i i you know i'm satisfied  
i mean i  
uh you know they they're supposedly covering everything that happens  
so  
you know  
oh really  
oh  
well uh sometimes it's such a  
you know it's it's so um slight you know like   the [tremors] are so slight that they don't even bother putting it in the   paper  
but most of the the times i find that even if there are you know they do have like [tremors] out there you know there'll be a small article in the paper about it  
but uh  
oh well   that's what sells papers  
that's um that's been like that since they the first newspaper you know  
you know but um i don't know  
i i guess i'm satisfied  
i don't uh  
i mean what basis you know of comparison do we have really  
we don't get a you know  
oh yeah  
i was going to  
sure  
yeah  
sometimes you don't even want to be bothered with the news because it's all so bad  
it's all so negative you know  
but  
well we have to keep talking i guess  
oh  
oh is it really  
well yeah  
i don't i don't uh  
i don't know  
we're   i guess we're supposed to wait  
or   i don't know  
i  
you know like one uh well  
was it last week we were supposed to talk about gardening  
uh and it was really funny  
i i i mixed it made the call  
and it happened to be my friend who lives a few blocks away  
yeah  
and it was really  
we were laughing  
i mean but you know we don't really do any gardening  
so like that took like a minute  
and then we just talked about you know whatever i mean  
you know i mean some topics  
really now you know now this topic this is i mean  
there really isn't much to say after   you know you uh you know you you tell the person what uh news there uh you know where their where they find their sources of information from  
and then you know if it's uh if they're satisfied  
and that's about it really  
it's hard to talk for five minutes on this  
so um  
so how do you get most of your current event information  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i would imagine going to college though your professors and different things  
you keep up on what's going on  
yeah  
right  
well i'm a housewife  
i have three kids  
and so   um i get most of my information probably through just the news at six o'clock   and then um talking with people and just hearing what's going on  
just the regular channel   just channel eight  
that's our channel here  
that's the um [eyewitness] news  
so  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
and i think even in the elections they choose who they're going to follow and who they're not  
and basically   you know if a candidate can get them to follow then the news will you know kind of publicize his name  
i don't think that the way i get the news is the right way to get it  
i think you get a very [lopsided] picture of what's going on  
right  
right  
and the news too it just doesn't um cover that many stories  
i mean it just covers your basic you know violent crimes   and you know and and your [catastrophes] with weather and stuff  
but other than that you really don't know what's going on  
um i will read our current letters that come out on elections  
and i guess i do read that  
and i do study who's running in our area  
and i do study what's going on in the economy  
it you know  
and i guess i do read other magazines um too to get my information  
right  
i used to read every month a reader's digest  
but um now i guess i just have friends that clip articles  
or if i you know am interested in something of course during the when we were in war i read up on that just a little in the newspaper   to find out what was going on  
but a lot of the times i you know i wish i had the time to read all the stories in the newspaper  
but i just can't seem to find the time  
if they put it out in a video or on   not a video but a cassette tape or something where you could just listen to it   i would do that while i was doing other things  
but  
right  
well i um they even did a story on our news here in texas on what people wanted to see more of  
and people said that they wanted to see more on outside of texas news  
you know we just don't want to hear every night all the [killings] that went on here in dallas  
that we want to hear what's going on with the economy what's being done to help it what's going on in other countries what's you know just more information  
yeah  
well i guess we'll get pretty good news coverage in a couple of years when you host the uh summer olympics  
i know we're trying to get tickets to it right now  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
they spent a lot of time that's another thing they spend a long time on sports  
and i think that um that's fine i would like to see more time spent on other things  
but  
well see i'm going to school right now  
and uh   while i'm working i don't get a i don't get a chance to read the paper a lot  
and i don't watch t v as much really either because uh my free time is kind of  
and i do like to do other stuff with it  
while i'm at work sometimes i on the computer network   um i read the news sometimes  
and that's kind of helpful  
that's true  
i mean my [roommates] and stuff you know   people around me talk about it  
and the people i work with are pretty you know up up to date on that kind of stuff  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do you watch do you watch the network like major network news  
or do you watch like   the macneil lehrer hour  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh see channel where i am channel [eight's] um like public t v  
so it's kind of different  
i think i think the uh  
i think a lot of the commentators on like the major networks like right it's kind of appropriate right now because of the election stuff going on  
but um it seems that um they kind of get to throw their opinions into how they you know report on the news  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
because they can they can only report on i mean  
they give each candidate perhaps you know ten second [blurbs] in which to you know to say you you just can't get a full picture of you know   their message unless you have time to sit down and and probably read something on it  
yeah  
yeah  
what kind of see  
i subscribe to like science news  
and that's that's real good because it gives like a brief summary of or like the updates like of what's going on in science without getting into a lot of detail that would you know bog me down that i wouldn't know about  
but other than that i don't really read  
i don't i don't really subscribe to anything else  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i remember back during the uh during the war everyone here at work always had the radio or the t v on because that they were going constantly with that stuff  
but uh  
yeah  
if they reported every if they reported every violent crime in atlanta it would take it would probably take the whole news hour  
but uh  
oh yeah  
that's  
they start already they're having like um  
in the newspaper they have a section i think every now and then on the olympics you know  
and they've got like a [countdown]  
it's like sixteen hundred days or something  
oh really  
that's going to be crazy that time of year here  
but uh  
i can't believe i mean  
they're they're stretching out the olympic news for that much coverage over  
i guess people want to hear about it  
also big in the news right now is the braves because they're uh they're in you know spring training or whatever  
and they did so well last year  
yeah  
it seems like  
i don't know  
they way they do the [newscasts] i wish they they kind of separated it you know  
if you wanted to watch one thing you could turn to some channel for it  
but i don't have cable  
okay  
how do you keep up with current events  
yeah  
what what channel do you watch or what station  
that's the one i watch  
i usually keep up with t v  
i don't  
i am a student  
so i really don't have much time to like read the newspapers and stuff  
so i get a lot of stuff through the grapevine which is really isn't   too great sometimes  
yeah  
the radio doesn't really have much news sometimes  
the stations i listen to are just mainly music  
yeah  
do you think that t v is uh pretty accurate  
i mean sometimes do you think it gets pretty commercialized  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
it's  
they mainly go with like popular topics   just not like basic news  
huh  
yeah  
going  
they're looks like they're going more for ratings than for   you know actual news  
i think you know the probably the best source of just plain journalism would be newspapers  
they typically have a better  
i am from a small town too here in texas   and so that then like local news is really who grew the biggest tomato  
and  
yeah  
farm report and oil reports  
that's pretty pretty sad  
or who killed who  
yeah  
well in uh in dallas i don't know if you heard about the killing where the guy drove into luby's  
and the story was uh  
yeah  
and the news covered it   right you know hours after it happened  
and they were taping people who were crying who   had everything  
and then like three days later this uh local news station was using as as their [promo]   to promote themselves  
i just thought that was really that's kind of cold  
yeah  
and it was just  
they were showing like these dead people  
and they were showing people crying  
i mean just taking advantage of you know  
yeah  
it didn't seem like there was much coverage of the story  
but just the play on people's emotions  
it's just gotten so  
i mean somewhere there's it's lost a lot of the quality that they use to have like in walter cronkite that if you know  
and everything  
yeah  
yeah  
what did you think of the coverage of the war  
did you  
yeah  
they kept just showing you know how great we were doing  
and it never really showed what actually   the damage that really happened that's  
a lot of times like the news coverage showed all the you know the guys who didn't get hurt coming home and all the big parties  
and they kind of you know  
if they were going to show that why didn't they show the guys who   you know got really hurt and everything  
um well actually usually uh in the mornings i am getting ready to either go to work uh  
usually catch the news in the morning  
uh n b c  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i usually tend to just you know rely on you know t v uh again you know just through the grapevine just just to know like you know like what today's stories are  
and i usually like go out an buy a newspaper if you know i'm interested in any particular one  
yeah  
i think you pretty much have to listen to all news station to get any news at all  
well what i really don't like about t v especially local news as compared to like national news is just uh it seems it seems like everything is very spoon feed  
and you know it's it's more like the news shows is now is now you know an entertainment show like a sitcom   or like the news because they would always have like the wonderful [investigative] reports you know is you're kids bus driver smoking crack   on the way to school you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
also also i have the [observation] of uh with the press is that like any any stories that i had any first hand knowledge of that i see in the press you know which only happened like ten times in my life   you know first thing you know for anything of you know or anything that actually had had more than just a blurb about it that the press has managed to just mess up some aspect of the story  
it's something wrong  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the farm report  
uh_huh  
also i have found that newspapers probably aren't as bad as television  
read the story and just found it so incredibly watered down  
and  
was that like he started shooting people people in this cafeteria or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i have seen that happen lots of times  
you know uh channel x gives you the best coverage  
you know we were on the scene with our team players  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they are trying to get the you know most emotional response for  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i've pretty much stopped watching local news totally you know  
uh you know even the national news i just find it to be you know   very watered down  
very  
uh i i found it very one sided  
uh you know it it just seemed to lack any sort of debate  
uh you know not saying that we that we actually should have been there or shouldn't have been there  
but it just seemed like you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i really think that you know in the involvement that the press states you know that the the military basically sets the press  
uh i get most of my news uh from newspapers really  
i read the daily newspaper uh the houston chronicle  
and sometimes i'll read like the uh wall street or the new york times  
i don't subscribe to either  
but sometimes i get a hold of copies of it  
uh how about you  
do you uh mostly   get things from t v or  
oh  
oh that's interesting  
you said computer networks  
uh what uh what sort  
i am fairly knowledgeable of  
uh okay  
that's interesting  
oh  

is it   is it the a p news wire  
or is it something that is uh a little bit different from that  
uh okay  
so that's that's interesting  
okay  
yeah  
i've had i had access in the past to uh uh the a p news wire  
and i thought that was that was pretty a pretty good way to get news  
uh i've never used the dow jones news wire  
but uh  
yeah  
it uh  
do you get any uh do you read any news magazines or anything like that for sort of like a broader like more long term [analytical] sort of approach  
yeah  
in what way  
in like in sort of like uh uh quality or sort of an orientation in terms of like view point or the way the news is presented or whatever  
yeah  
well you won't offend me  
so go ahead and say  
yeah  
like a liberal type of bias  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they they generally make mistake on anything technical at least  
yeah  
yeah  
do you by mistakes do you mean just like honest mistakes  
or do you think they are deliberate sorts of things  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
huh that's disturbing  
i haven't really noticed them doing that  
but whatever  
again i don't watch t v news that much now  
if i had access to c n n i would watch t v news more  
uh i don't you know but i don't usually  
yeah  
did you did you think that c n n well the gulf war coverage would be kind of uh an [abnormality]  
i just i guess  
i would be curious to know what you thought as to how like say c n n t v news compared to the three networks  
uh you know whether you thought it was more of a biased or whatever  
but i i guess you wouldn't  
you probably  
if you just watched it during the gulf war that probably wouldn't wouldn't tell you much  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
i actually get most of my news coverage off uh computer networks  
however i do also watch television news uh usually in the morning once a day  
and i read the front page of the wall street journal   most every day  
uh well well dow jones for example have the cause the   uh news wire  
and it's picked up and actually available uh at my office  
so it's no fee or subscription either to read at my leisure  
and it's sort of by category  
for example   so i can read a certain business or topics  
well uh it's similar to that  
but it's dow jones which is uh the wall street journals news wire  
uh well actually not  
uh i do uh follow uh uh uh  
i don't know how to how to describe it  
so i'll say a religious newspaper which which talks about issues that are relevant to me in a more broad sense  
it's a weekly   but uh but not uh not like business week or news week or one of those kinds of things  
i'd like to say that however uh that i'm [overwhelmingly] disappointed with the media in general except for the raw news wires  
uh i think that it i think that it has to do with uh  
i personally think uh  
i i have a problem with their viewpoint  
and i personally think that uh   that there's a strong there's a strong bias in the media  
yeah  
absolutely  
uh after all who who writes  
people who are [journalist] who are trained to write  
and they're that's a liberal uh a liberal field   at least from [academia]  
and uh the other thing that i always notice is that whenever they write about something that i'm an expert in i find their [descriptions] to be wrong  
and it  
that's right  
well even if it's not technical if it's uh some social thing or whatever it doesn't matter  
if i am an expert in it they usually make mistakes which makes me believe think i'm not expert in it  
they're telling me lies  
uh i think both  
uh by deliberate i uh i mean mistake mistakes of [omission] or uh or uh biased toward a particular view point   a particular liberal   view point that they have  
so uh uh to give you an example uh we will go out of the printing media  
i know of cases where uh we have one television media where they will show clippings from one event and describe another event but with the the attempt to give you the impression that what they're talking about is the same thing they are showing you   which is sort of like a deliberate bias   which is which is rather disturbing  
i mean he does that  
yeah  
i don't have access either although i did at one time  
and it was  
i did during the gulf war  
and it was addictive  
yeah  
well during that small sample i would think that everyone was just about just about the same except the three networks radio television programming  
so if at a particular time you wanted to get the latest and greatest news   you could do that by uh turning on c n n  
and you  
jimmy so how do you get most of your news  
oh wow  
so when you say the morning news or evening news or national news is when  
oh okay  
well i would probably be a junkie or watch c n n a lot  
but i don't uh i don't uh subscribe to cable   because of the poor service and also uh because  
well i uh i give to the united way  
and so i figured that amount of money i just donate to that  
yeah  
i take away a uh addiction  
oh something  
well i  
oh  
what what uh newspapers do you read  
uh_huh  
for a while there i i i uh subscribed to new york times actually a couple of newspapers because uh you know my fiance  
well she was unemployed for a while  
so she you know really needed to look at the the help wanted ads  
and so often they they the newspapers are trying to compete with a lot of other sources of uh news  
and i don't know  
new york times is okay  
but uh and when you read a lot of this stuff the the quality of the writing has definitely gone down in the last ten years or so  
but   uh i mean they they say it's like the sixth grade reading level  
but   i swear it's at least second or third grade   sometimes  
but i don't know  
uh i think if you listen to like n p r or something like  
that's pretty good  
uh and i like listening to that on on uh  
when i get a chance when i'm in the car a long enough time to to listen to it because i  
uh  
well mcneil and lehrer  
i guess he's leaving  
one of them is leaving  
uh they're they're pretty good too  
uh i guess a year ago you're probably watching c n n a lot right  
had that invasion or whatever it is  
uh but i i don't know  
i guess a lot of it's still a lot of hype  
look at the the smith trial  
i mean that was a joke  
oh yeah  
the n p r doing that  
yeah  
i know  
i had uh some [visitor]  
and he was just just i don't know [fixated] on that you know just listened to it   constantly  
uh and i guess that's good when it's live if you if you'll really want that  
but that's not really providing you news  
it's it's more like a media event rather than   reporting  
oh really  
that's kind of boring to me i think  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess that's true  
but one of the ways that i get information is uh every day when i log in on the computer i subscribe to this this thing  
it's free inside the company  
it's called [intellect]  
and and they basically uh type out [abstracts] which are really literally  
i've i've actually read the actual articles  
they're pretty  
well i kind of uh i watch the uh national news every day for one  
i also read one or two papers a day  
and i'm a i'm pretty much a news junkie  
and i tune in to c n n a lot  
uh every evening at six thirty i believe  
i watch the national news  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
as opposed to paying for cable  
yeah  
uh overall i i  
the quality of the news you get off of most uh sources i would say is pretty low  
it's  
usually you get pretty [incomplete] coverage  
and that's one of the reasons where i why i try and get as many sources as possible  
because if you hear the same story from three different sources then you get a much clearer picture of of what is going on you would hope  
but still you know hard to say   that what you've heard is what really is  
well i read uh the local newspaper  
and i also try and read one of the uh major [dailies] like the chicago [tribune] or the new york times or something like that  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
pretty low  
right  
i i really like n p r a lot  
right  
yeah  
i miss n p r a lot also  
i really like them because they give uh  
instead of being as your newspaper or your t v news where you get a five minute blurb or a ten paragraph blurb they go really in depth on topics which i think is good  
and they also  
their editorial stand point seems to be a lot better than say your major network news and that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
sure was  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that was  
but then you also have things where you uh where they broadcast the [clarence] thomas hearings basically the whole length of them which i thought was really good  
uh uh  
right  
well but the   but the news news that you would get from any other source is being generated from that event which is something that's good also about c span which i i tune into every once in a while  
yeah  
it it is really kind of boring  
but you know that's  
if if you don't watch it there then you're going to hear somebody else's canned uh report somebody else's view about it  
and that's what you're supposed you're supposed to  
if you watch the news you're going your opinion is going to be formed about on what somebody else thought about it   as opposed to actually watching it yourself and forming your own [pinion] opinion which i haven't would be much more in favor of forming my own opinion as opposed to following someone else's  
hi  
so do you think you get good coverage from the sources that you have  
do you watch a lot of t v to get the news then  
um  
well i read uh  
i get a bunch of different things  
i get a newspaper every day  
and i try to at at least have a few minutes to look through that  
and i look through uh  
i get a newsweek every week which i i pretty much read that cover to cover  
and i as far as you know  
that [satisfies] most of the short term news i get  
uh don't watch much t v  
don't have enough time  
and uh don't listen to the radio too much especially the news channels or anything like that you know  
they might give you a little [blurbs] like   this happened or that happened  
and that's about all i ever hear of it  
uh but most of my news probably comes from newsweek  
and for the longer term i i read uh like scientific american and and uh [readers'] digest and some of those other types of magazines that come out which they  
the news isn't like immediate what you'd generally think of as news  
but it's recent material  
yeah  
it is it is more in depth less broad  
well actually it's probably isn't less broad  
but it's just more in depth  
and uh it is it is more it is more just significant information you know  
it is the big events not the little events  
not the fact that there was a big auto accident down on the corner of broad and main you know  
yes  
or they're making making time because they to fill in an hour's worth of news  
uh i get kind of bored watching t v actually when i watch the news on t v because   it goes so slow  
and then there's nothing that you know really is like oh so exciting  
yeah  
that that's about what it ends up being  
listen to the news to hear the traffic report or something  
yeah  
i think they're about the same  
i you know they they certainly have a very similar uh [charter] at least in my mind  
and uh uh what what kind of uh what kind of news normally interests you  
i mean what do you what what do you find interesting   versus what do you find boring  
uh_huh  
i think it will  
uh they they keep claiming it's going to have a big influence  
but we've yet to see it  
and  
it's real short term yet though  
i mean it's only been three months or something like that   since that happened  
so  
but they like to tell us that it's going to be important  
i think it is too  
yeah  
i i think that's a possibility  
uh it we might also be helped though because it it will be easier to do business over there too  
for the companies that already have a presence over there  
and uh i know of at least one company that specifically went over there and established a presence before nineteen ninety two so that they would have it when it   came time  
yep  
because once you're in there then you can easily expand  
but getting in after nineteen ninety two is more difficult  
yes  
and there's already a lot of evidence that they are being very protectionist  
even amongst themselves they're being somewhat protectionist you know  
like england doesn't want to do one thing  
and and sweden doesn't want to do other thing  
and they're they've all got their own reasons which have to be resolved yet  
and some of it i mean is  
i'm sure within those people's minds it's quite justified  
uh_huh  
before they   open up their borders to everyone  
uh what is the uh  
do you watch anything like with sports or anything like that  
against your will  
yeah  
at least you guys have a remote control  
it's sometimes better to not have one of those  
course you can always [mislocate] it   or [misplace] it i mean not [mislocate] it but [misplace] it  
and  
uh actually no  
because because i'm in school  
i i kind of miss out on most of the current events  
i just catch the major ones off the news or if someone starts to talk about it  
uh i don't watch a lot of it  
but that's the  
basically that's my only major source of information  
what about what about you  
yeah  
and it's more in depth  
yeah  
i know  
where they're just trying to fill in  
yeah  
i know  
i do i do too  
yeah  
you may find one little uh news item interesting  
so you have to wait twenty minutes to to hear about it  
yeah  
actually you mention newsweek  
i i i do like uh u s news and world report  
i don't get to read it as much as i like  
but that's i think that's a good magazine  
well   right now trying to keep abreast of uh what's going on in europe you know with all the u s s [r's] satellites breaking off trying to become independent and you know european community coming together  
that's going to affect our uh economy quite a bit  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i'm i'm pretty sure it is because uh   once once europe becomes [unified] and uh their economy becomes one big economy we're going to be uh kind of hurting  
yeah  
definitely  
oh yeah  
so they have a toe hold  
i good toe hold  
yeah  
because when they first start off they're going to be highly protectionist  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i can understand their viewpoint  
they're just they're starting off  
their economy's a little bit weak  
so you want to   get established before they    
yeah  
totally  
actually i'm not really into sports  
my [roommates] are  
so unfortunately i forced to watch quite a bit of sports  
yeah  
we have to fight over the remote control  

so how do you uh  
so so it sounds like you've got a television going on there  
so i can assume that you probably watch the t v news  
is that  
really  
wow  
i  
uh what what station do you listen to  
cliff i see  
so uh it's not affiliated with anything is it  
not   it's not a network station  
okay  
yeah  
because i i listen to uh public radio a lot  
and they have they have k c r w which i i i saw a thing recently they may be trying to start their own uh cable tv outlet i guess  
they're getting a little getting a little feisty now  
uh  
yeah  
so you have a paper or something or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
how do you like it  
it's been it's been a while since i read the dallas news  
i uh fact last time i read the dallas dallas news i was in arkansas  
i uh  
oh yeah  
well that must be pretty bad  
so how did that happen anyway  
no  
not how  
i mean when did it when did they  
yeah  
oh really  
um  
oh me i uh good grief i read the times los angeles times  
there's quite a task if you've ever run into one  
they're uh    
yeah  
they're thick  
uh if there's something you want to know it's it's in the times and then and in detail  
uh they uh we we used to have two papers here in town  
and then the herald examiner collapsed about two years ago because of oh i don't know just nobody was buying it really  
yeah  
pretty much  
uh there used to be   fact i think there still is the uh the daily news which runs out of the san fernando valley  
and uh they're not bad as far as a uh you know as far as a local paper goes  
in fact it was kind of weird because i met the uh i met the i met the editor uh while i was on uh while i was doing jury service in santa [monica] one time  
it was like we just sat around and talk about newspapers and stuff  
he was a really cool guy uh you know went to columbia university and all this stuff  
and uh it's it's a pretty good paper  
but uh you know it's not it's not the times  
although i you know i'm sorry to see some of their uh  
there's there's a daily news uh news rack right around the corner from where i live which means that they're they're expanding i guess  
but uh and occasionally i i pick up like time magazine or something i think uh if they've got an interesting lead story  
but you know it's  
i i don't have time  
yeah  
that's that's kind of a problem for them  
there's a lot of people who fall into that   category  
uh_huh  
i see  
yeah  
the big [dailies] don't like to don't like to step much out of their uh out of their home turf  
i have to admit the times is kind of [provincial] too  
it's basically anything that's south of downtown they don't bother to cover  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know  
i uh it was it was a big discovery when when the times when the times found out there was a place called orange county  
i mean the way they i mean the way they've been handling it before they practically they practically acted like their reporters needed to shots to go south of the l a county border  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
i i i find that attitude kind of arrogant though  
it's like you're taking our money  
but you're not bothering to cover the things that are interesting to us  
i almost never watch t v news  
i get most of my news driving back and forth to work listening to the radio  
uh it's a local radio station  
it's called uh k l i f cliff  
no  
no  
well this has this station has a lot of just ongoing news  
and occasionally in the morning i'll pick up something like uh c n n or that  
but i hate watching the like ten o'clock news  
or  
yeah  
we have a well we have uh dallas morning news which is the big paper in dallas  
we read i read it pretty much   from cover to cover  
the times herald went out of business here  
and so we really only have one dallas newspaper and one   fort worth newspaper  
uh financial trouble  
oh when did it happen  
i guess they closed down about three months ago  
so how do you keep up  
yes they're very   [voluminous]  
so there really is only one major l a now  
yeah  
i used to read time magazine a lot  
but i don't read it much anymore  
and then we have a local rag here in town that   i pick up periodically and read just to see what's going on in our little community   because we don't get an awful lot of coverage in the dallas morning news  
now they have started here running a three day or three times a week plano section  
and it's just sort of a you know four or five pages that covers what's going on in plano  
but it's still not an awful lot of news  
oh i would imagine in uh you know in in dallas they have plenty happening in dallas to cover that it gets hard covering all of the suburbs  
and of course they tend to cover the county  
and we're not in dallas county  
so they   tend to ignore places outside of the county  
yeah  
no  
we don't have the uh national public radio in in my area  
i can hear it at the uh uh-oh the college town nearby when i'm in [stillwater] which is about an hour away  
but the f m signal doesn't reach this far  
uh i'll listen to shortwave quite a bit  
it gives you a whole different perspective on the news uh when you hear it from say a european   point of view or from the country of [origin]  
uh i agree with you too on the uh uh the cable channel c n n and headline news  
uh i'm not too satisfied with our local newspaper   uh which is why i rely on shortwave and and then the cable   cable c n n  
i think a lot of it is just uh the fact that in the u s you're so far removed uh in a lot of cases from say conflicts  
or or it's not happening in your backyard  
so it's it's more of a it's not as a personal uh the news isn't as personal in what we receive [domestically] than than what's on shortwave  
it's b b c is uh-oh i don't know the right word is is almost uh  
they almost take all emotions out of it when they   report it  
and it just  
they seem to give more of just the facts than opinions  
uh very much so  
very much so  
and i i think a lot of it is uh especially t v news  
they don't really have the time and a lot of them don't have the education and the background to   uh-oh to really [decipher] the news and to really explain it  
i mean i you know i think it's important to interpret it  
but a lot of times the person doesn't have the experience to to do the interpreting  
oh i like the straight reporting  
uh and then i i hope to be able to form my own opinion of it  
it's it's nice to hear someone's interpretation of it  
uh i always think it's humorous when when the president gives the state of the union and uh for thirty minutes  
and then for an hour and a half you hear different commentators explaining what you just heard  
and a lot of time i don't hear exactly what they what they write into it  
so i overall i think i would rather hear just straight reporting  
yeah  
i i think people are people have that opinion  
they they want to sit down in front of the tv and uh or at a read a magazine or u s a today and read in four [paragraphs] uh and and find out  
i uh get a lot of my news driving home from work listening to all things considered on national public radio  
uh that is one of my big sources for current events information  
uh i really like that coverage  
my wife uh on the other hand is home most of the day  
and she watches a lot of the cable news network  
have you seen uh have you uh ever heard of all things considered  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm uh interested in the in the shortwave aspect of it  
uh how do you find that the the coverage from other places in the world uh [compares] with the american coverage of  
how do you think that uh the viewpoints differ  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you think then that uh the american media is presenting an opinion along with their facts  
uh_huh  
which uh which approach do you find to be uh more useful the the [interpretive] approach or the straight reporting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
one of the things that i found interesting last year during the uh the gulf conflict was a [sentiment] against uh peter [arnett] who had stayed in iraq and was presenting uh some of the things that were available  
uh there was a there was uh a piece where he was showing a bombed out building where there was obviously a [crudely] uh uh [hastily] [erected] sign saying baby milk factory  
and while he was being severely uh [censored] and could not make any judgment call on this it was fairly obvious that it was a piece of propaganda  
but people were really down on him for reporting the fact that you know this isn't a baby milk factory  
how could he say it was uh  
i i think that   that to me showed that the americans were really getting used to having the not just the facts but also the conclusions and opinions spoon fed to them  
hi  
uh uh i i should say something  
that i'm the uh least informed  
this is totally accidental that i have to talk about this topic  
but it's i'm the least informed person in the whole united states  
this has not been determined yet  
but i i i've never read a newspaper in my entire life  
and i've i i never watch t v news nor listen to the news on the radio unless i'm just happening to be listening to music and they slip it on in the car radio before i can turn it off  
but  
well no  
i i've i've explored that with lots of people  
uh they've tried to lock me up and uh things like that  
but uh uh i'm basically not interested  
and i also find the uh everything is so slick and superficial and [misguided] and and off the uh uh  
what am i trying to say uh  
i do learn about things   largely from friends  
and i occasionally will read something like the new york review of books  
you know someone will write a book about something  
and then i'll learn all about this thing that was in the news two years earlier  
but it  
and somehow  
and anything i participated in or know about when i read about it in the paper is always so uh covered from such a funny and superficial perspective that i don't have much confidence in it  
but i mean i don't think it's just that i'm lazy  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
doesn't want  
let me ask by the way just for the record  
i i'm i totally [concede] that intelligent people read these things and intelligent people write them  
so i mean i'm not being elitist in that sense i hope uh  
yeah  
what  
yeah  
by the way when you say most people think it is  
i think it's like ninety nine point ninety nine think it is percent  
oh you don't  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i did on the uh the supreme court hearings the for uh uh the whole business of uh  
see i actually have a a  
yeah  
the thomas and [anita] hill business  
i i mean that's that's the closest thing  
i deeply cared about that  
uh and i sort of had planned to have dinner with a friend of mine  
and when i arrived at her house she was engrossed in that  
we ended up watching it for a couple of hours [zooming] out and grabbing something to eat and then [zooming] back and watching it some more  
and i thought that was terrific because she actually helped me understand what was going on  
but even then i didn't end up doing it on my own uh uh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do you ever read  
hi  
uh_huh  
any particular reason  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
i really don't  
i i i like to refer to this as sort of consumer report phenomenon   which is everybody that i know reads consumer reports so the people who do feel that consumer reports does a [wholly] inadequate job in their area of particular interest   but assume that they do a reasonable job in other areas   uh without thinking that there were people in who think each other areas area of of specialty  
and uh i guess you could explain it two ways  
and and the cynical view is well these things aren't doing a very good job at all  
and the view that i would rather take   is that there's a different amount of information you need when you're particularly interested in a topic or uh particularly interested in buying something as a you know   as a hobbyist versus when you want to go out and buy a blender because you need to mix things  
and i think the same thing is true with news  
if you want to just have an idea as to what's going on most papers and especially the better papers the the times the wall street journal the   washington post give you a reasonable idea  
if you were deeply involved in it then you immediately realize that what they print is stuff that you probably knew already and the stuff that you want they're not printing because the average person doesn't need or want to know   that much  
well i mean there's there's a reasonable question as to whether it's worth the amount of time it takes to keep up on things  
and most people think it is  
and i can i can you know accept that some people think it's not and can find better ways to use it  
i don't think it's that high  
i know a lot of people who may watch the t v news in the evening but don't spend the time to actually read a newspaper  
and i think they're saying well if something's really important i'll at least find out that it happened  
and and that's a that's is a reasonable start  
and for awhile i didn't read a newspaper when i came out here because i didn't find one that i liked  
uh and if something important happened it was covered on t v  
and i could then go and and pick up newspapers if if it were important enough to read about  
and i imagine you get the same level of something that you cared about happened you'd find out from friends or other channels  
[clarence] thomas or  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i stayed as far away from those as i could  
i decided i didn't want to waste the time  
i had i guess five years ago now wasted that kind of time with [oliver] north hearings   and afterwards decided that what i had gotten out of it just wasn't worth the time i put in   and that these things are just very slow in seeing information   come out  
uh i basically uh listen to the news from the t v  
that's probably the only time i get a chance to uh uh take a look at it is the evening news  
and and then if i'm lucky i might be able to hear something through news wise  
but uh other than that that's probably how i get my source unless something really tragic happens and somebody tells me it about through uh uh you know uh through conversation or whatever  
but uh most of the time it is through the news in the evening  
so that's about the  
newspapers  
no  
i'm not too much in reading newspapers  
uh not that i don't enjoy newspapers or anything like that  
but uh part of it is because i just don't feel like i need the need to have them uh with watching the t v or whatever  
we get our weekly news around the area  
and i might look through it real quick if there's something that catches my interest uh in regards to what's going on around the county or little bit of the state  
but the majority of the time now i don't get a daily newspaper where you know i get tons of uh news coming in that kind of stuff  
oh you do  
you read it in the morning then  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh sure  
to see if they did it or if they uh criticize you or   put something in there wrong  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
exactly  
uh_huh  
sure  
well that's that's kind of like you said then  
we we are kind of on the opposite where i get home and uh while i'm cooking supper the t v is on and watching the news or trying to catch up with what is going on  
and uh very seldom do i catch the ten o'clock  
so by that time you know old news is probably what i hear through the grapevine or whatever  
but uh unless there is a big issue going on like when we were at war then i think everybody was glued to the t v to find out what was going on  
but uh other than that no  
it's  
exactly  
exactly  
exactly  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well it brought kind of uh more of a [vivid] uh look at what was going on when they were dropping the bombs and just a lot of different things  
but uh yeah  
that's true  
you know you know a lot of people that read the news to newspapers to get the news of what's going on  
and uh other people that you know do it differently or don't even watch any news at all  
so but  
exactly happens  
sure  
sure  
that's  
oh sure  
a clip you know a sentence or two  
and that's about it of what went on  
and uh they have so much other information to cover in such a short period of time  
sure  
makes sense  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so you're right on the coast line  
you're not uh further up  
you're  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
i suppose you watch for hurricanes coming in and   things like that  
sure  
yeah  
that's about the only time in the in the summer uh if you're watching t v for the weather even though it's very hard to predict what's going on  
they'll kind of say well there's a [thunderstorm] warning or whatever  
this is the what is expected  
but a lot of times things happen and change here so drastically uh so fast   you know where movement that was coming in has shifted or whatever  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
to take off  
sure  
yeah  
that's  
sounds pretty good  
so anyway i don't know if our time is getting up here  
or it's got to be fairly close to that  
you don't get any newspapers  
i'm kind of the opposite of you  
i get all my news from newspapers  
we have we have two newspapers  
yeah  
two newspapers in the morning  
and uh   i'm uh in in a government position that i'm in the news a lot  
so uh i i kind of look through to see see what uh i'm quoted in  
but uh how how bad the quotes are every day  
yeah  
or uh sometimes there's uh letter to the editor about me  
or there's a even uh editorials   for and against what i'm doing  
but uh but t v uh the t v i i don't really watch even if i'm even if i'm on it  
but just  
right  
and that's  
c n n had the uh  
everybody was watching c n n  
that seemed to be the place to be   to find out what was going on on that  
at that point i was watching the t v   on something like that  
well the thing is with with t v i i uh  
a lot of times the the news on uh the local t v is so brief you really don't get the full picture of what uh what's going on  
and uh that's that's a problem that i have is not getting just a little brief uh idea of what's happening  
but  
right  
but   i like the weather report  
so i  
i [alway] always i always turn that on  
that's one part i watch because of uh i go [surfing] down here  
and i always   want to watch the weather for when the waves are going to be good  
yeah  
no  
right on the south florida coast   where the weather is still warm here  
yeah  
yeah  
weather [channel's] good  
yeah  
i mostly look for the storms out in the ocean   uh hundreds of miles out  
so i can predict my my week and   where i'm going to be  
so i can be at the at the beach when the waves start coming in  
okay  
how do you get your news mostly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i can hardly wait for my morning paper to come  
so that's the first thing i want is the headlines  
it's really funny because because uh uh my sister grabs the sports and i grab the headlines  
but uh and then when five o'clock comes around i just want to get in the house and turn the t v on to watch the news  
it's really weird  
uh i don't stay up late to watch late news because my eyes won't stay up that long  
but uh i love to watch the five o'clock news  
and i makes me angry when my paper boy's not there on time where i can read my paper  
uh i do have my radio going most of the day though  
so about every hour it breaks in and gives me news too you know  
but  
no  
uh_huh  
i just have a channel that has music except for like every hour you know say eight o'clock nine   o'clock they come on for just a little bit of the news  
but as far as the actual news i get that from from the  
can you hold on just for a second  
just a minute  
hello sir  
yes  
i'm sorry to keep you waiting  
uh i was calling from work  
so and that was a call waiting  
yeah  

that's true too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you're right  
there is a lot of it that's that's just garbage as far as i'm concerned you know  
but i just like the more or less the the daily news you know   just uh especially the weather  
i like that  
although they're usually wrong  
uh_huh  
but uh like i say as far as as actually listening to the news it's mostly t v five o'clock to six thirty  
uh that seems like a long time for news  
but that's how long it is  
and uh seems like they have the local news and they have the world news  
and then uh my morning paper i can hardly wait for it to come  
and uh  
oh  
yeah  
right  
once you get to work i wouldn't either  
huh_uh  
but i've always been a morning person to get up you know  
but i can't stay up late at night to watch the late news  
so i guess that's why i watch it at five o'clock  
but anyhow well listen i guess that's about it then  
it's been nice talking to you tony  
oh really  
oh well that hasn't happened to me yet  
so you never know  
it might this time  
okay tony  
uh_huh  
bye bye  

generally i get most of my news from uh the radio  
and then sometimes uh if i've got time i'll be reading the front page of the newspaper   and just fall off on the articles that i like  
uh also since my wife likes to watch t v sometimes uh having just being there i get uh you know i have to watch the news late at night   with t v  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
um  
okay  
do you   get like one of the talk stations the news stations  
sure  
right  
sure  
yes  
okay  
right  
it sounds like you uh like the news a lot more than i do  
me i figure if it's something really important somebody will tell me about it  
but uh you know i the thing is if if i catch the news all the time it just makes me depressed because they tend to produce a lot of bad news  
or that's what   comes on first  
and uh you know also late at night you know i don't like watching the news late at night  
but my wife is usually up then  
and so   i can't go to sleep with the t v on  
i uh  
but you know i i wish i had uh more news on things like that i consider long range things like science and medicine  
uh i'm more i guess i'm more into science and science fiction  
and uh there's you know  
not that the news is science fiction  
but uh uh i'm more interested in that  
things like uh is nasa ready for another space shot uh you know how hot are they on the trail of a cure for such and such cancer  
and uh uh you know a lot of the news isn't that interesting to me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
me too  
yeah  
georgia here they're usually wrong too  
we have weird weather systems  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm   you know i i just uh i would  
i i i'm not a morning person  
so i would [begrudge] the time it takes me in the morning to catch my morning news  
i get up just barely in time to get up get ready and get off to work  
and then at work   i have no time to read the news  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
nice talking to you  
i'll probably talk to you again  
i had a friend who was in this  
and he said that he got calls from the same caller sometimes  
yeah  
that's right  
take it easy  
bye bye  
okay  
uh let me see  
i've been sitting here awhile  
i almost forgot the topic  
but uh it seems like i get most of my news from television  
i'm we only get the paper on the weekends  
and so i'm not much of a of a paper reader  
or but i i and i'm don't rarely listen to the uh radio  
so i get most of my news like from documentaries like forty eight hours twenty twenty you know the news at night   news in the afternoon that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are you in the car quite a bit  
or  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh i see uh  
yeah  
i i i pretty much am  
and i watch the news at least twice a day  
so uh if i've missed something and and i've just recently decided to stay home with my children  
and so it seems as if i catch the news right as it happens you know  
there was the [explosions] and that kind of thing  
my husband will say how did you know about that  
yes  
it happened at such and such time  
and that's so that that's different for me  
so i usually find out exactly when it happens and that kind of thing  
uh no  
it just seems like since i've recently stayed home that is what's happened you know  
it's just that uh now that i've stayed home i'm i'm usually aware of when these things occurred  
and it happened  
and  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
right  
it kind of gives you the whole story or more of the story  
that kind of thing  
so uh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know what you're saying  
yeah  
but i try and catch most of those programs on [wednesday's] and friday's  
and if i miss them i try you know i try and and tape them if i'm out that kind of thing  
i try and tape them  
and so i can sit back and watch them  
and it's pretty interesting  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
plus i find that i have to video tape quite a bit of things  
if i don't want any interruptions you know  
that kind of thing  
uh it seems like ten o'clock at night  
unfortunately  
but that that's what it seems like ten o'clock at night  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i get a   weekend paper as well  
and uh in addition to that i get a local weekly  
i i live in suburb of milwaukee  
and they get they have community newspapers around here so the local their extremely local stuff   uh is in the local paper that comes out once a week  
and then i get the sunday uh milwaukee journal because i don't have time to read a paper  
uh mostly   that's my difficulty  
i uh i get my news pretty much from the same sources as you do although i do listen to n p r which has very good and that's national public radio which   has very good uh coverage of the national and international news i feel   and does a pretty good job of analysis as well  
no  
i'm not actually uh  
but i can run my radio in my office  
i i   teach at the university  
and when i'm not   teaching if i choose to have the radio on i can listen to that station  
so  
how are you are you satisfied with the twenty twenty and forty eight hours and the things that you do watch  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is that the aspect of the news that you're most interested in is is the timely [noting] of the events as they happen  
is that what you feel good about in the news coverage  
uh_huh  
well i myself uh the reason why i listen to n p r and the reason why i watch macneil lehrer   rather than the than the network news shows at night although i do watch a local ten o'clock in the evening news which carries over a lot of the national news stories   uh is that quite often it seems to me the national doesn't do a very good job of analysis  
the local doesn't either  
but i feel that macneil lehrer get a little more deeply into some some of the issues that are really current  
and perhaps newspapers do that  
but as i said i don't have time to sit down and read a newspaper  
and frankly when i have read a newspaper   i haven't noticed that kind of analysis either  
so uh there's there is some danger to that of course too  
because if the analysis is [inaccurate] or biased or whatever then you know how good is it  
but uh i like a little more indepth coverage  
and i think that's what you're maybe appealing to you too on something like twenty twenty or   forty eight hours  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm more interested in trying to understand what's going on in the world   rather than simply being aware that you know there that an event has occurred  
i i like to stand back and get a slightly bigger picture  
maybe because i'm easily confused by detail  
i don't know  
so  
when  
you have young children right  
so those evening shows are probably also at a time when you're at liberty to take some time off and be in front of the t v set for awhile without [interruption]  
oh you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
when is your good watching time  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
that's what  
i have older children   and getting dinner on the table  
i come from the east coast  
and i was  
it amazed me when i got out here to the midwest and found out that even though they're an hour earlier in time they still watch the news when  
okay  
uh generally i get uh you know most of my news uh in the you know weekly magazines like time newsweek and and uh u s news and world report with with occasional [smatterings] of of uh you know the wall street journal and of course the local paper  
but uh my my only complaint is i really don't enough time to to look at the articles every day and and go through a paper you know exhaust the details  
so that's why i concentrate on weekly magazines  
well yes  
i i well i i don't think i have the time to really become a student in every article  
and and so i i i like the weekly magazines uh because it gives me you know the high points of what's going on  
uh but many times uh you know the the local uh the local news kind of [suffers] you know  
but here i am you know cheek by [jowl] with our nation's capital  
and  
yeah  
yes  
exactly  
well when when the capital gang always talk about the people inside the beltway i'm saying to myself hey guys i'm inside the beltway  
but uh it turns out that uh that that the c n n is i think is great   and for for things like hurricanes and fast breaking events  
but generally they're they're they're more sound [bitish] you know kind of thing  
and and i don't really   uh you know i don't really feel as though i've a gotten sufficient uh you know dose of news that way  
uh_huh  
yes  
well the mercury and the and the and the chronicle are the only things that are really can   stand up there  
uh redwood city  
i use to work at [anteks]  
[anteks] [amdahl] and places like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
i i've i enjoy  
see they have uh we have two the both c [spans] here  
but but   really the on the public t v you know macneil lehrer   is one is an hour's program that i always  
if if i watch any news program it will be macneil lehrer   and and occasionally c span  
i i like a i saw the uh the uh the the tapes that were that were run of marion [berry's] drug bust  
was the whole thing was was run on that  
and   and and also they have the uh the uh uh [parliament's] question and answer period  
it  
when when it first uh you know when it first tuned in on that i you know  
it's one that's  
i think it was somebody was just [scarcely] just just ripping the hell out of another person  
and i  
and everybody was you know making noise in the background  
and then   yeah  
here's this [dude] in a [wig]  
and i said to myself it's another monty python that i didn't know about  
and then and then up jumps margaret thatcher off her green bench  
and i said oh it's parliament  
yeah  
so i i thought to myself i can't wait  
i'm going over to to britain in mid you know in mid may  
i i i'm going to uh you know you know approach my uh you know  
this is how i discovered you know the the prime [minister's] you know question and answer period you know  

yeah  
uh_huh  
do you think that the weekly magazines provide you with as much detail information as you'd like  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's right  
you're very close actually  
it's   almost a uh bedroom community for   the capital  
uh_huh  
yeah  
a lot of my information comes from several sources  
probably pretty high up on the list is national public radio   uh which i like  
uh i i think it's fairly objective  
and i always like the letters that they read which tend to accuse them of being too liberal and too conservative  
and while there's an inherent uh filtering process going on just by the letters they choose to read uh i always figure it's a good thing when any given group is being accused by each side of uh [favoring] the other side  
that's that's potential indication of balance  
and generally i really do believe they are pretty balanced  
uh i also read time magazine  
and we get one of the daily newspapers around here where we go through various sections of the uh various uh of the articles and the front section  
and uh  
oh  
oh you  
did you use to live around here  
oh okay  
oh yeah  
okay  
i know exactly where that is  
yeah  
we we get the mercury which i generally think is actually a pretty good newspaper  

the newspaper i really been impressed with it when i've read it at times at well the los angeles times   which i've found to be a uh a very good quality uh newspaper  
and i like a lot of the articles there  
the other thing when you said we don't have cable t v so but the other thing that you referred to that always sounds really interesting to me is is called c span  
both  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i never say that  
that would have been interesting  
yeah  
i i think that's always fascinating  
i wish i wish we had something  
but it's usually the prime minister  
right  
thatcher  
major  
which could be another of monty python  
i i have seen that  
and uh a aside from the level of [wit] which is much higher than generally in american politics uh which i really enjoy i really like the fact that they have a chance to ask hard real questions i think  
and it's unlike the fairly controlled uh press conferences that presidents of the united states have here where they they always seem  
okay
well let's see
right
uh we don't get that in uh straight fashion but you know the other major channels have been carrying a lot of it
so i've seen a good bit of their coverage
uh_huh
right
well they've really done uh good job of keeping everybody informed of what's going on
sometimes i've wondered if it wasn't almost more than we needed to know
uh_huh
well our uh newspaper does a pretty good job on most things
but you know its uh not totally in depth and quite frankly i didn't read all of the war stuff
you know it was just there were too many long articles
and i try to quickly read through the paper before work in the morning
so i don't don't get to spend a lot of time on everything uh i'm at work
yes
uh_huh
what about your uh radio stations do they uh provide much in the way of current event stuff
uh_huh
well i've lived in a small town before and was quite aware of the local radio station at that time
and i know how they are
well ours uh that we tend to listen to most um i like the way they handle news type things because in the morning and in the evening
they'll have you know five minutes worth of news every half hour
but in the middle of the day they don't just drown you with the same old stuff
and they won't interrupt unless it's you know really important
and and of course they did a good bit for some of the war stuff
but they didn't just over do it
yeah
i think so
i i don't really think we need to know or even sometimes care so much about all the little nitty gritty things they keep asking over and over
i think think the reporters sometimes ask the [silliest] questions
yeah
things like that are just kind of absurd or once in a while
they'll they'll keep just uh [hounding] someone that they're interviewing and there seems to be no purpose uh you know the person has stated some opinion or fact or whatever
and that should be the end of it
and they just keep on and on and on
uh_huh
yeah
well you too
oh well we're having sunshine
and i think it's going to be up in the seventies today
so you too
where do you get most of your current events
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i was i was uh we don't have cable
so we were watching c n n a lot
and then trying to switch thank goodness for remote control
we were switching from one station to another
and in between keeping the radio on
it was extraordinary yeah
we um um
and then you know couldn't wait for the newspaper reminded me of when i was younger the uh the time of [watergate] and just couldn't get enough of it
but
yeah
um i it was the first couple of nights sitting up and watching t v late into the evening
and you just wanted to get the latest news what was happening
huh
yeah
yeah
you just couldn't you couldn't put it you couldn't put it down
it did
yeah
it was like you know that what was it two steps forward one step back
and uh but occasionally you know you'd stay in tune just long enough to get the latest different [tidbit] or a different angle
and uh you really became addicted to it for a while
i try to um the newspaper comes uh in the morning and i leave for work at seven
huh yeah
yeah
and i usually don't get a chance to sit down until after work
and at that point i at least try to get through most most the front section
and maybe you know
one or two other sections
where what what newspaper do you get uh there how does it
how does it compare can you like how does it compare to the post
yeah
that's funny because every once in a while
if my husband and i have traveled or something
um and we pick up a local paper
we're really shocked even in a major city
at how local it is
it's really [provincial] is it really
i mean that's that's maybe because we get so you know we're so [jaded] with the post uh
which is really international
and and i keeps reminding me you know that this
we're we're really in an in an different situation here
and i keep saying no wonder the rest of the people in the world vote for in the country vote the way they do
i mean but uh
i probably do watch more t v because i get home and in between say cooking dinner or something if i can catch a five or six o'clock news
i watch that usually uh before we settle down
uh depending what time we get to bed
we'll usually watch the ten or the eleven o'clock news
we have a ten o'clock news here at night and that's ideal because by ten thirty
i start to [fade] so uh
what are you studying
yeah
i remember when i was in school
yeah
yeah
yeah
no
i can remember way back back in those days when i was in school
the i think the only time we only really watched the news and this tells you how old i was was during the cuban missile crisis
uh i we could just we were all centered around that television
that's exactly right
yeah
although i do worry that how easy this one was might be a bad lesson
uh to to the younger people um you know than there is the other generation
oh that's true
yeah
that was probably the best part of the news was the uh some of the human interest stories
yeah
yeah
does it does it bother you that uh at this point in your life that you're not getting more direct news or what are you studying
okay
yeah
um i guess
how old are you
okay then i'm see i'm about twenty years older
i really do i do rely i do miss it
i do rely on the news and uh i i guess i regret i don't get enough really local we get some local papers
but i guess i'm more interested in the national or international news
news [overload] yeah
but
well it's i'll i'll tell you though it is hard when you go to vote
i mean there are so many issues and there're so many people running
that you know unless you have some way of [evaluating] it
and i guess the news does help
well it was really nice talking talking to you
okay
i hope so
take care
uh generally the most of my information i'll get in the morning with my newspaper periodically updated through the day
i try to catch the news at least once before i go to work either on t v or on the radio most days it's just catching it on the radio on the drive in to work
uh for world events i'll take c n n any day
but for local local coverage or statewide coverage i'll take the local news
a lot more indepth i extremely so
and there's no [midground] anywhere in it
with what i'm involved with doing is kind of a controversial job anyway
i work with the uh state prison system
so i'm always kind of interested
i look at the what the liberal view is on the inmates need more rights and i hear the more conservative lines that we need to get back to making the punishment fit the crime but they never do go far enough
after four years with the system
i've got an extreme almost an extremist view on that end of the criminal justice system
because what they got now
sure
isn't working
yes
that's
i'm a inside guard i also work in the [segregation] department for the ones that mess up
so i get the real [sweethearts] but i get a aside from that
i i'd almost say i've got extremist views on gun controls on personal crime uh personal crime prevention there was a
thing recently in the paper there was a bill in front of the state legislature that was going to allow the average citizen to be able to pack his own weapon again
concealed or [unconcealed] i'm all for that
i don't know if every citizen does or not
but just you having lived in houston
you know what it's like out there
when i go to a shopping mall if i i feel under dressed if i'm carrying less than two blades from the training i had in the military i'd rather take somebody with a blade at close range than i would with a pistol because i know they're going to go down
i know i can keep them down
but if the if the option came up to where i could pack a side arm in the open i i don't worry about carrying it concealed i want them to know i'm packing it
and given the option of that i would definitely when i went shopping to the malls
i would definitely be packing all kind of firepower wisdom city okay
that's where the only [stipulation] i'd like to see [tacked] on to the legislation saying that there had to be some form of formal firearms instruction n r say n r a certified firearms instruction you can't train somebody how to shoot in a combat situation until they've been there
i've seen it in lebanon i was in in the granada invasion in eighty three
i was an advisor down in central america in eighty four i'm very accustomed to knowing when i pull a piece out whether it's a full sized firearm or a handgun
when it clears leather the [shot's] going to be fired
you don't pull it out for show you pull it out to take care of business the same way with the blade it it comes out of my back pocket
or it comes out of a [sheath] on my web gear
it's coming out
and it's going to draw blood you don't pull it
i'm trying to think it was the uh in the [gurkha] forces out of india had a legend that went along with their [legendary] side arm the [kukri] which is their blade
you never drew that thing out unless it was going to draw blood which is a
good mental training aspect for it
that or any side arm whether it be a blade or whether it be a handgun or whatever
there's also a moral aspect to it a lot of people have not either mentally sat down and gone over the moral aspect can i take human life even in a life threatening situation to myself or to a loved one
and when it actually comes down
they don't have time to think about it
in that fraction of a succeed that they're caught i don't know if i can do this
there's a bullet already on the way to them
or there's a blade already cutting them somewhere because they they had the time to react but they [hesitated] and that's impossible to in a classroom setting explain that to somebody they've got to on their own have made that decision long before they ever decided to carry a weapon of any type whether it be a fighting staff
up to a forty four [magnum] any any of them in the correct hands they're an absolutely fantastic weapon
but if you haven't made that moral decision can i take a human life even under those situations where either my life or a life of a friend or a life of a family member is threatened can you do you defeated the purpose of even having the gun
so how do you keep up with the news
um do you read the newspaper
um what daily charlotte observer um is that there in your city
uh_huh
so um
so um do you think you get anything from your local newspaper
um yeah
i don't i'm not exactly sure how good
the national news is though
how accurate
exactly
fear
yeah
it seems like they're not really trying to report the news they are trying to report how the news affects them
or where they're at with the news or something along those lines um
yeah
a little bit of color or something for the lack of total information that was given on the t v
lack they give immediate for the lack of total
well rather [biasly] i i believe huh
very [procity] um for the city fathers
but uh it seems almost as though they don't care about how the national news affects the local area
yeah
and then they give give you just the local [obits] and that's it
and well hell you don't know know those people that died or or what from
well what i mean is
do you if your in a strange city you certainly don't know them
i work for texas instruments
uh yes
and yourself
yeah
i understand
huh that's interesting
i've always considered myself um how is this best put um the charles [bollfield] trash
grew up in west texas
thank you
yeah
um so do you think our local do you think our national news tells us anything important
um yeah
i i i watch sixty minutes almost religiously
well and and more importantly than that i wonder how the other side of the story is
and of course they're not going to tell the other side of the story and they're not going to tell it accurately
uh we don't we don't have cable
yeah
we've watched little bits here and there during the gulf crisis and we
i wasn't exactly sure how accurate
it was either
and it seemed as though during the gulf crisis it might have been under pressure from the incorrect side
i i'm not sure how to phrase that uh [delicately] yeah
it is
i i didn't feel comfy you know i you know you always hear about the warm fuzzy feeling
i kept watching that be it c n n in a bar
or or or or local news at home or federal news at home or see um we don't subscribe to our colorado springs paper we subscribe to
a different paper and um but on occasion more than occasionally we'll buy the local paper
and that warm fuzzy that we're talking about
i never could get that warm fuzzy feeling in the pit of my stomach about are these people really telling me the truth or more importantly all the truth
well i'd suspect that to be true
but you couldn't prove it to me
and and most importantly i couldn't believe any of those people they didn't seem believable
oh all four um well we have the independent here
and we've got the three majors and p b s
and we watched all four of those and on more than occasionally i went to a bar that had c n n running around the clock
and still i got this feeling as though from these six or eight news sources i had that something was missing
and
oh [stormin'] norman oh of course
and you've got to expect that
but i had the feeling that no matter who i listened to it wasn't that they weren't telling me the truth i felt that someone was lying to me
and there's nothing there still at this state that i can put my finger on and say oh here's where they [lied] to me just a feeling
yes
wouldn't it be wonderful if there were no more wars
oh i guess mostly uh really i get the i guess the headlines on the news and then i read the newspaper for a little more detail
uh i used to take some news magazines
but i found that i just didn't have enough time to really read them
yeah
yeah
to get my money's worth out of it
you know i'd i'd oh i was taking newsweek for a long time
and i'd read it a little bit and put it back for a while
and you know first thing you know i'm reading a three week old news magazine
that got to be kind of silly
so i cut that out
but i do read the paper just oh just about every day
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i'm i like to watch the news uh if i really know that something's going on because like i say you you can kind of get the headlines
and a pretty quick thumbnail sketch of what's going on
but then i i like the paper because you do get more detail
oh it
i tell you
yeah
i think it does
i i tell you it's it's really interesting
when when you are personally involved
or or personally see something that happened
and then gets reported on later
it's it's you know
i've i've kind of been in that situation a couple of times
and it's it's interesting to see how the how the reporters and and how the other people
yeah
how they saw it as opposed to how you saw it
and and sometimes it's uh you know sometimes it's just like i saw it and then again sometimes it's not
yeah
yeah
but uh it's i don't know it's you know the problem is you really don't know
i think so many times if if the coverage is accurate
or fair
and that's that's the problem
i guess uh
uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
it's uh it's interesting to to hear from the experts you know the so called experts but i think sometimes they tend to go a little overboard uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's kind of funny
we were we were kind of discussing that at work one day and you know the the introduction to the expert that they have you know this is mister jones he's been working on this project for thirty years you know he knows all there is to know about it
and we just kind of looked around at our project at t i
and you know we've got people that have been on the project for a long time that you know don't know
the first thing about
what's going on
so we're kind of uh
[quoting] those guys and you know
and everybody was having a good time with it
so that just uh you know that's a a little lesson on how the experts can be
but uh oh yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
the the the media was more [mobilized] than the military was i think
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
well you know the the situation the way it was there for a while you know you had uh you had t v reports coming out of baghdad
and that's to me that's unheard of you know that's that's crazy you go
no
huh_uh
yeah
because here we are at at at all out war with a country and and we've got our own people right in the heart
of that country you know right in area that we're trying to blow out
yeah
oh yeah
some of them uh uh you know almost give the air of of [arrogance] you know
oh you can't touch me i'm a reporter you know you don't want to touch me i'm a reporter
but sometimes the crowd you know or the people just don't really respect that
no
huh_uh
yeah
i mean there's not much we can do
you get
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
really
like i say you know it
they've had enough enough [ample] time to get out and then they don't then you know that's that's their own problem
you know whether it's
yeah
that's
yeah
yeah
that's exactly right
you know because that's exactly what we're doing
they're they stay over there long after they've been warned to get out then they expect us to come and bail them out
which of course we have to do
you know
but uh no
it's there's a lot of lot of sources for news
and i guess a lot of sources of news there's just oh you know news people every where
all over
it's just amazing
i guess the i guess the american public probably more so than anybody else
i know just has this this need this [thirst] for news
you know i'm the same way
i i love to read the paper i like to read the editorials i like
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's it's you know some of the stuff i don't i don't feel the need some of the news items
i guess is what i'm saying i don't feel like are really [newsworthy]
the personal tragedies and that kind of thing
but you know
but uh-oh the big disasters and the big natural disasters and stuff
yeah
that's news
but
yeah
yeah
that's
yeah
oh yeah
that's just that's strictly national [inquirer] stuff
you know
and i i don't care
a thing about that
i haven't read anything about it
or or even watched anything
but yeah
yeah
all right
all right
you too
we'll see you later
bye bye
okay
i will i guess i will start and say that i keep up uh with current events
mostly from three or four areas
and i'll tell you what they are
and uh then you uh would you please uh
tell me how you do it
i think i keep up better with what's going on in the world from the newspaper
but i usually am introduced to subjects by television
exactly
in more detail
i also take uh time magazine and i enjoy that a lot
and uh i get a lot of uh i think pretty good detail there
and uh i'm pretty i'm pretty satisfied with i think those
and some friends who are who are very knowledgeable and how how do you
yes
yes
yes
yes
wonderful
of course
no
i think that's right
too
well especially the wall street journal
don't you find though that it's hard to find time to yes
to
the reading is the wall street journal
if i don't read it the day that it comes in then if they start piling up on me
then i have to just forget about about it usually
yes
really
it really is
and especially if you're trying to save papers for
recycling
just terrible job
but uh i think i enjoy uh time
and i i get insight and i don't like that magazine very much
it looks like a little time
but it is not written as well as time staff uh writers do
but i i like some of those magazines because they just choose certain subjects i guess
and deal with with a a
well
yes
right
i guess you have five children
well
uh
oh well of course
exactly
well you are passing good information on to them aren't you
yes
right
they've heard it though
sure it is
it has been nice talking to you
enjoyed it a great deal
there really is
it's beautiful
it really is beautiful
you will i know she will enjoy it
oh
yes
like the news hour or something
yeah
i think that's that's helpful
i think that's right
i i i listen to the evening news you know to get the kind of thumbnail things
but i try to read the paper each day uh covering the the headlines
and then the in each of the sections and then i think i enjoy the editorials about as much as anything
yeah
yeah
that's right
that's right
or or to help you understand really how you think i think sometimes um we're very divided about about our feelings about things
and uh sometimes the editor will help me focus uh you know somebody who has thought about it at great length in order to write something about it
usually has a kind of an uh an approach that maybe i hadn't quite considered and i find them very interesting
and helpful
i think to uh settling my mind about things
um
yeah
i think
yeah
i used to listen a lots when i drove but i don't i have eye problems
and i don't drive now
and i i don't listen to the radio very much just because i don't i'm not where it is
uh
that's a good idea
yeah
that's a good idea
yeah
yeah
that's true
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i think so too
yeah
different point of view yeah
i think you have to be very careful in with the media in for that reason
because they they are not because they are very biased
most of them have very biased feelings
it's hard to hard to get one
i'll tell you the the we take the insight magazine and i find it to be as about as unbiased as any i've found
yeah
yeah
yeah
huh that's interesting
to be biased
yeah
isn't that interesting
kind of a sad commentary though when you think about it
it is
right
right
and it's such a valuable tool and and their should be some moral uh you know there's so many people to be [duped] yeah
yeah
that's right
that's right
that's too bad
yeah
yeah
that that's true
that's good source of really good information usually
yeah
yeah
i think that's right
i think that's true
yeah
yeah
yeah
well that's true be awful if you couldn't read isn't it
i i've learned to appreciate that i've had some eye problems in the last four or five years
and there are times when i couldn't read for one reason or another
and it's a it's a it's awful
the
so the printed the printed or whatever word is really a valuable thing to us
even though sometimes it may be slanted i think you need to learn to think
and understand that you have to interpret and stand up for yourself decide what you think and make decisions
all right
good to talk to you
okay
normally i watch uh t v
uh usually twice a day
oh basically network news
was it once in a while
depending what i think's going to come on when they put on the previews
yeah
that's about what i do
but uh usually i hit the headlines when i walk by book stores or anything else on papers
but i normally don't buy newspapers
fridays and sundays why friday
oh okay
sunday's usually my big one
yeah
i enjoy just point blank reading basically the headlines
and i go especially if i've seen something one way or the other
and i hit the t v to find out actually what's going on around here
oh it's same way here
what about when um desert storm was on
yeah
well see i had the radio going on that almost all the time
especially between jobs on that
and that's when i hit the radio
but when they stopped i stopped
but uh now i like
see i usually i hit the six o'clock
and usually the ten
but uh sometimes i have to search on ten because they get boring
they pick up the same thing on six
so i usually have to search to see if anything is come up or not
right
do you ever discuss at work
now see
usually when i was working at t i we hit about eight o'clock in the morning
we all just what was news and coming up and all
so we hack it out between all of us
one way or the other
but uh
well ours was kind of strange because we'd hit um since we were all females
and uh we'd hit either the blacks because two of us were black one two three four of us are white
and so it would be a cross between all of it going in together and uh i really enjoyed that
i really enjoyed that because we got a cross section of viewpoints and it was fascinating in the morning
so we ended up getting there
well we were all there usually by seven thirty
it it was fascinating
it really was
i really enjoyed it
and i think everyone else did otherwise we wouldn't keep doing it every morning
no
oh that would be interesting
i'm not uh i don't seem to find time to read too much except of the stuff i'm studying right now
but uh news wise that way
no
but i have realized most of mine uh from the t v
i think has increased watching the news
since since the war
um
well see i'm like as i said i pick up on sixty minutes or twenty twenty usually my favorite is sixty minutes and i'll pick up on them and find out what they're going to see
and then i'll pick up the rest of the stories like that
and get into like that
but not uh most of the time
if a really interesting one thing or another
i'll go a little bit further but usually it's i just don't have the time
but i can understand now why some of the [newspaper's] circulation has gone down because it's so much easier to watch the t v and keep at least ninety percent abreast and watching you know reading the newspaper and forget it
well i got tired with newspapers because i seem to stack them up without reading them
that's why i stopped i found out when i got the newspaper that it i'd read the headlines front page and maybe through a couple other sections and then i start packing them up and i'm going
i never read this
what am i you know why even subscribe to it when i'm not reading it
well see like when they have that recycle program on was it save the earth save america
i think what it was
i watched that twice
i recorded that because there were some things in there
i wanted that i hadn't written down
so i had recorded that
but you can't find that in the newspaper
but see i take that as far as my concern that's news to me because i enjoy something like that
but uh i wonder about the rest of the world in itself how much they get
or how much i talk to people that i work with at night
now and the younger group they don't watch too much
they don't even see it
but i think they're being raised watching t v more than newspapers
so i wish they'd put a little bit more depth in some of their stories
i think they could use a little more of it a little bit wiser and put a little more positive in some of their stories than complete negative all the time
well that's too true to a degree if they can put a complete half hour t v program on of what police have done to um or fireman you know off handed when they go in and find people or going down all all sorts of things you know what i'm talking about
sorry about that
right
i've seen parts of it
that's one of them
um
there there is lots of stories out there about people what they've done out of you know stop on the highway and stop someone uh just because there was an accident one way or the other to me that's positive
see
so you wouldn't see like that's a cop show fine
but there's positive in many different areas
all right
[patricia] and yours is
[charley] right
well i i listen to the radio whenever i can i watch t t v news at night
but i'm really a big reader so i read that paper from front to back
but i don't think either of the papers i get here in the metroplex are that great
especially the star [telegram] i get that one
it's it's not the highest quality
i don't think
and i get the dallas morning news
and it's kind of fading no not the morning news i get the times herald what do you get
oh
where'd you move from
oh
yeah
i think it's the better of the papers
uh_huh
yeah
i do too
oh yeah
i love that
i think that's so good
once you've listen to that you can't believe the regular radio news
uh_huh
yeah
i like i like that too
oh
i don't think any of our papers in the area are great papers you might have had a really excellent one
but you know you have to get a local paper or you won't know what's going on
that's why i get the fort worth one which i didn't do for years before we moved over here
but it's the only way i could find out what was going on in my own city of arlington
so i had to
subscribe to it finally
oh really
oh
yeah
well the editorial page is pretty good
of course they you know they follow things they get from other places
but uh i'm not real thrilled with with the paper
yeah
i listen to that quite a bit when i can
yeah
you really get a whole story you know the news on television is probably i think the worst source because it's like eight minutes of top news out of the whole half hour by the time you take all those you know the ads
and the sports and the features and the the cute little talk you know
uh i'll catch the ten o'clock sometimes
or if there's a story that i'm really interested in
i'll i'll try to
oh i love nightline yeah
i like that
yeah
it really is
if you have to do something early where do you work do you work at t i
no
you don't work at t i
do you
where where where do you have to drive to
oh yeah
you go against all that traffic i guess
on l b j or something
oh
yeah
well my husband drives from here in arlington to t i on central
yeah
he listens to a lot of news
but
yeah
um well just time as far as news
i mean we get a lot of magazines
but that that's the only news one that i get
oh yeah
uh well i didn't like it this week
it was just all about california
and i don't care that much about uh did you get it this week
the whole [issue's] is oh
uh_huh
well that's true
no
we do get time
and um i i read it pretty well you know i especially read the political news
uh um i like to keep up with that
but um like you said i think the best source of all is the public radio and well [nightline's] great
especially when something exciting is going on you know
then i then i'll really make a well you know it used to come on at ten thirty
which was better
but then they put that silly entertainment tonight
right
oh was it
yeah
i know i wish it would come on earlier
but obviously the sitcoms make more money or they you know
or they wouldn't have it on at eleven
but uh uh well i guess we've exhausted that subject
well who do you think's going to run for president next year since you're up on all your news
guess we've got bush again
but
right
patrick buchanan supposedly was thinking of running against bush or he just announced today
i don't know if he's announced or he's thinking about it
but it was on the news
well i would think
but
uh usually uh either t v or radio
it it seems like
uh we get the weekend paper
but uh even then it just seems that sometimes you're so busy
you don't want to take an hour or so to sit down and read the paper
so it's so much quicker just to you know hear it on the radio or watch t v
uh_huh
oh you do uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
not quite the same
yeah
and a lot of times when you have two different uh papers you get two different stories
yeah
right
oh excuse me
oh i do too
it's just it's so much easier just to you know listen to the radio in your car
it seems like
or just to sit down for a short while and watch the news than it is to sit down and you know i mean i'll read periodicals and stuff too
but uh usually those come out after the fact
and course they give you more information
so if you want that
then that's fine
right
right
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
i know that when i'm on vacation i am like seems like i am totally out of it
i don't know what's going on
and i don't really care
it's kind of nice to get away from it all
right
yeah
oh uh_huh
right
right
no
we don't
so we don't watch c n n
oh okay
right
right
oh is that right
uh_huh
so you figured might as well get the cable huh
right
now that will be nice
uh_huh
right
yeah
oh is that right
i bet the kids were happy
yeah
well we had uh i don't know if your son told you
but we had two papers here in dallas
and now we just have the one
oh okay
so that will probably make a difference in the reporting
they are uh on the weekends gosh
uh let me see i've got this on sunday
it's a dollar
and during the week
i'm not really sure how much it is it's probably i guess you know seventy five cents or so
i would think
uh_huh
but you get it every day
don't you
oh so that's that's really good then
right
uh_huh
yeah
that must uh do you have a hard time keeping up with it reading everything
oh well that's good
so the question is how do we keep up with current events
as a matter of fact as you called
i was uh taking a look at uh the san francisco examiner
yeah
uh i watch the macneil lehrer news hour fairly regularly
and uh network news less often
and will watch some of the talking heads programs on p b s
uh and that's pretty much about it
we don't get time or newsweek uh and uh as a matter of fact i don't get any of those sort of of magazines
anymore
yeah
do you watch the network news
yeah
out here they're moving it to a seven o'clock uh well they're moving the prime time schedule up from uh eight to eleven which used to be eight o'clock at night till eleven o'clock at night now to seven to ten
and i guess the network news which has moved up in time out here
uh will move up on all three of the local network [affiliates] i was just reading as a matter of fact about the news coverage of the movie j f k
yeah
it's really interesting to listen to how different people uh approach different topics uh it the i didn't realize this
but uh dan rather at c b s was the first person to view this [zapruder] film that was actually made of the assassination and he viewed it the day after
and uh got it completely backwards in terms of what had happened that was significant because of the obvious [contention] that there were two [gunmen] at least not one
and uh it's really and he rather later admitted that he'd gotten the key piece of uh uh evidence backwards that he'd [argued] like a lot of other people that kennedy had [lurched] forward after the shot and he'd in fact been uh forced backward which [lends] [credence] to the two
uh to the two [gunmen] conspiracy theory have you seen the movie
i haven't either
yeah
it is uh you know i uh are you one of those people who believes that it was uh not a lone [gunman] that that we just never really got the full story
yeah
i i haven't seen the movie either
but i i think most of us in this country believe that it just doesn't make sense that it was one guy
and uh
well that's what [oliver] [stone's] seeking to do
and i i think it's really interesting to look at this because i think it kind of gets at the question of how people get their news sometimes really important news comes to people through movies through television
yeah
and and i think that's really interesting
i know that uh my wife and i were talking about how uh much uh attitudes toward women uh and and the relationships between men and women husband's and wives uh are changing
and i think people get more of that information through television sitcoms than they do through reading the newspaper
uh that was the topic of [yesterday's] t i conversation
and and uh i think it's really interesting because i think all of those things wind up carrying the message
and i think uh uh it's going to be real interesting to see where we go with all of the selective channels that people are going to be able to get [via] cable television and computer services
so much uh so much more than we can possibly consume in the way of news
uh i came up here i was uh working for uh a unit of a t and t and was promoted i came out to california to go to graduate school
and and was hired out of the p h d program uh in southern california and went to work for a unit of a t and t and they promoted me and moved me up here
and we liked it
my my wife is from san diego
live uh right out by the park right
uh right off uh [lindley] [meadow] in golden gate park
yeah
yeah
what took you to texas
yeah
oh yeah
uh_huh
and you grew up in walnut creek
yeah
how long have you been in texas
that's
do you like it
that's a
i
hear a lot of good things about texas
it's probably more affordable housing
yeah
well i say uh a good question
uh i read the newspaper obviously
and and watch watch t v and uh uh we have one here at at six o'clock in the evening to seven where we have local news followed by
i i can't name the c b s i guess it is
who is the gentleman that m c that program
yeah
i think i think it's dan rather yeah
i i've just retired recently
so i have had very little time really to watch t v
and uh to get the news
so all of my time that was available wasn't until about six and seven uh obviously i scanned the newspaper
and uh i think
no
i get mine at the end of the day
at least i use to
and now i am beginning to read it about noon since i have just retired i retired from penn state and i just uh now i have some morning time available
and it use to be that we got our newspapers in the evening
which i liked because that's when i could read it
and i felt like it was fresh
and for the last two or three years our newspapers have been coming early morning and it has been six or seven o'clock at night before i got to read it
and i had already heard all kinds of [conflicting] things during the day
before i read a newspaper
yeah
uh
uh_huh
well that's like normal time six to seven
uh_huh
how do you feel about the [authenticity] of these various uh methods of uh presenting the news
yes
i always wonder about the accuracy of their source of information that's what bothers me
particularly you know when we had this business of the of the war over there in europe
i mean i always wondered about uh did they base what they said on whoever told them
well whoever told them might not necessarily have the accurate news and know know the the overall
uh story
yeah
uh
uh_huh
well there
the only thing that you can be sure of that has gotten it straight from the horse so to speak is uh did you hear president bush's speech the other night
well at least we know what he said
and we we don't have to uh read in the newspaper what they think he said or what the democrats think he said we know uh what we heard him say
yes
that's when you find out of all the [disturbances] that are in the background
that know one else knows about
that's the problem when you are in uh politics there's always somebody working behind your back who just doesn't want you to get your way simply just because you are on the other team
well that's ridiculous
really
uh_huh
do you actually read all those magazines every week
uh_huh
well i uh i i keep up with what's going on by listening to the radio in the car and reading a newspaper a daily newspaper and i i pretty much hardly ever uh see news on television
yeah
right
oh so you can pick up radio moscow or that sort of thing huh
that's pretty much like u s radio huh
yeah
that uh the b b c world services broadcasts on the f m band in near the boston area
by our public radio station
still
uh_huh
right
or here's uh one presidential candidate saying rude things about the other one's girlfriend or something
yeah
right
well they they uh they have a pretty small vocabulary don't they they
yeah
that's true
it's pretty tough to find objective straight forward news
i mean the the b b c got their own slant i mean their basically you know they're they're i think they're addressing their u s service to to [brits] living here
yeah
they do they do good stuff on [nepal] and south africa
you can get good stuff on
and you know india and but it's not necessarily close to stuff
i'm looking for
they tend to make fun of the u s a lot
i think
well maybe they're right
what the heck
yeah
do they uh do you use any electronic type news services like a you know computer network news services anything like that
service then
well most of my reading tends to be professional reading
so uh [scanning] headlines in the paper or reading over my wife's shoulder tends to be about the only newspaper stuff
i do uh and the newspaper is pretty much the local news anyway
uh when it comes to national or statewide things
uh i keep uh the national public radio station uh that's available here
uh on all day
and uh that's pretty much where i get my uh both
uh statewide and and national news coverage together with a little bit of t v news in the uh in the evenings
but primarily from from radio uh which is you know that's a [dosage] of about uh about two two and a half hours of news a day
well i it's on in my office
and i can
i can hear it as i'm working when i'm here
my commute is is about fifteen minutes
uh so i i you know that's not an issue
but that's primarily you know where i end up getting it from
and and that for me is as much a a a choice because i find it to be a good way to do it as it is a response to limited time for doing reading and stuff
it's probably more because i just enjoy the coverage than it is because i don't have time to read the paper
you know
well they do to some extent
i i hear some some repeats between uh uh the morning edition and the all things considered in the afternoon
uh i we do also have a an intentionally repeated coverage they start at five thirty in the morning and uh uh they play the first you know hour again over at the tail end of the broadcast so that people who aren't up that early still get to hear it
so
some of it is intentionally repeated and and so once in a while i hear the same story twice or in the afternoon
i'll hear the same report from the same [correspondent] in [yugoslavia] uh that they played in the morning
so there is to some extent some [repetition] uh like that you know
but uh for me it's better than trying to read uh time or newsweek or or u s news each week i tried that once
and uh if i have something to read
i feel obligated to read it
and uh then i felt guilty because i never had time to read everything that was in them
yeah
that was that was about it you know uh so now i'm saving trees and and uh by by not
subscribing to the magazines anymore
but uh uh well how do you do it
you see here
we're in in mountain standard time
and uh the few times when i've run into shows like good morning america
uh they've really been at the wrong time for me
they seem to start very late for us
and i've got to be at work you know i'm leaving the house at like seven fifteen and so uh uh some of them seem to be you know like they don't come on until seven or something
and and so there's not enough time
uh to to watch it
but they have so many other things that are thrown in that you know i really don't care about you know how to make baked potatoes
or or whatever
uh or or or weather men with funny uh wigs you know
well yeah
but they all the morning ones have a tendency to do a little bit of that
and all right you know it's mostly just the timing
they seem to be on
so late in the morning that i i started wondering myself you know so who is it that watches these things
but i think it's because of our particular time zone uh it we don't go on daylight savings time
and so everything is shifted by an hour that may have been when i you know i looked in on it
uh what time it it just uh you know for me a lot of what i look for in news is as much analysis kinds of things
or uh sometimes human interest kinds of things that are a reflection of the news rather than just here's the events that happened
uh i'm a real history nut and so
well how do you keep up on current events
uh_huh
that's right
you usually probably more adept at more at depth at the news uh than most people are i would assume i uh i don't quite have as as [regimented] of a ritual as you do i get up in the morning if i don't have to go to work
and then i'll grab the paper i'll usually pull out the sports section
and the business section and try to read those two first
and then after i get through those i'll turn to the front front page news and and uh if an article catches my my eye i'll i'll read it
otherwise i just flip through the paper and and like i said if if nothing really sounds interesting
i'll just skip over it
do you do you guys have a pretty uh pretty thick paper there in houston on sunday
okay
that's that's a that's a good sized paper
well there's a couple hours project right there
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
is that peter jennings
yeah
okay
i uh [admittedly] don't really tune myself into the into either the five thirty the local news or the six o'clock news
i uh it usually ends up being a repeat of what was in the morning paper or else
if it's early enough it'll be in the next [day's] paper
and uh the local news is to me
isn't that interesting because it's generally not too much human interest stuff
it's more the you know somebody died here
or we had a fire here
and uh i don't know
i i when i was growing up i used to watch it all the time
and maybe that was because i i grew up in a small town where the local news meant something to me because i could relate to the area or to the town or to the people
but you know in when you have a dallas fort worth market
i really don't care what happened in fort worth or arlington
for that matter
well um most of what i do is um listen to the news in the morning when i'm heading to work um we get uh we have two different stations here that run uh national public radio and i really enjoy the format in the morning and the evening when i'm driving home from work
so that's where i get most of my stuff
uh
yeah
we we also subscribe to the newspaper of course
so we get
the washington post here
and it's a pretty interesting newspaper
and uh so it's you know it's it's uh between the two
i generally do
okay
every great once in a while i manage to uh listen to the evening news
but not very often how yeah
i don't blame you
it's it's uh it's
yeah
and it actually
well no
i it's i guess what is it it's um it's kind of a talk radio station it's run by a university here called american university
or at least that the the general program that i listen to national public radio itself is um a uh uh a [syndicated] thing that's run by a group that operates here in washington
uh but if you have any public radio stations in your area chances are pretty good
especially in austin come to think of it uh that you're going to be able to get it down there uh
you know
well i don't know whatever your you know it normally the public radio stations are going to be down at the low end of the dial and you know around eighty eight
and uh and so forth
and and uh this uh the two radio stations that run here
one is a classical station
and the other
i guess if you had to [categorize] it it's kind of a bluegrass station or something
um
but uh yeah
that that's
i'm i'm dead certain some station in your area carries it because every once in a while
they'll do little special features on austin
it's a real interesting radio program because they they don't just uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
well that's very interesting
well this comes on right in the evening as i'm driving home
and um what they do is they they give you uh about a five to ten minute news uh broadcast
and then for the rest of the half hour they usually divide it up into two or three segments where they they cover um topics either of current interests or every once in a while
they'll just do kind of an indepth reporting on on some uh particular thing like yeah like for instance how a particular city is doing or something
along those lines
yeah
it's uh
yeah
it's real good
and it it it uh the other thing is is my politics are kind of liberal
and and uh so they have a tendency being public radio to sort of take a look at things from the [populus] point of view
as opposed to being terribly sympathetic to the government
although the you've got to give them credit they do a great job of showing both sides of the story and uh they aren't afraid to poke fun at themselves either
uh which is something i really admire so if you watch the evening news which of the news commentators do you tend to like the most
yeah
yeah
i'm the same way
but the the evening news on t v
it's it's really it's so short that you just uh i don't feel like you wind up getting enough
and yet have you ever watched the uh mcneil lehrer report on public t v
i sort of feel like that news program drags on too long
you know with their little round table discussions and all that sort of stuff
and i must admit i i used to try to watch it
and it used to make me feel like oh well this is uh something i should be watching you know
yeah
exactly
uh_huh
which way
which which way does it lean is it conservative or
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh wow
that's good
yeah
well that's
well i was just looking around my house and thinking about the painting that i've done  
and the last time that um we tackled it i did the kitchen  
and i had gone through a period of depression at one time and painted everything a dark  
it was called a sassafras  
it was kind of an [orangish] brown  
it was not real pretty  
anyway so the kitchen was one of the rooms that got hit with that color  
so i tried to cover it with white  
and it was quite a a [feat] getting that dark a color covered and then just the hassles getting around the cabinets  
and know if i look underneath my cabinets i'm not satisfied with the jobs i i did on it because there're [splotches]  
but i'm glad it's done because it's brighter  
oh lord  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
so what are you going to get it off with if you get it on and it's dried  
uh_huh  
and it's not [scratching] your floor   because it's so thick  
oh that's pretty good  
we painted every room in this house some of them like two three times  
we have two children  
and they just  
they ruin  
it's just terrible what they do  
and then i have been [coloring] my hair  
and i'm real [haphazard] when i do it  
so i've got dye on my bathroom door  
and i haven't figured out how to get that off  
i guess i'll have to take that door down and really get it good  
and then we have a two story  
we did the outside of it one summer  
that was horrendous  
i mean i i couldn't stand the back side going up that high on the ladder  
i could get up on the roof and do that  
but   i dread that the next time  
uh_huh  
no  
i wouldn't think so  
have you guys tackled your ceilings yet  
oh we got to do that this summer  
we're [dreading] it  
it's like they're dark  
everything else is white  
now have you thought about this that wherever you buy your paint you need to make sure that that [store's] not likely to go out of business  
uh_huh  
oh but i still feel good the minute i put that paint on even if it does got a dent in it  
i do  
oh what else can i tell you about painting  
oh and i get it all in my hair too  
do you do that  
spots in it  
are you having to repair the walls at all  
um that's smart  
so where do you live  
i'm in garland  
did you try to call this weekend  
to that switchboard  
did you keep getting that it was down  
you didn't  
yeah  
well i've never tried any other kinds of painting besides on a surface like the house   like to paint a picture or anything  
i don't know  
i can't think of anything else to say about painting  
it hurts your back  
and it hurts your arm  
yeah  
but you're glad you're doing it  
right  
uh_huh  
do you have one of those [straightedge] things to put underneath when you're doing the [baseboards]  
on your [baseboards]  
you don't have any carpet down in your house  
see we've got carpet  
and i haven't figured out how you're supposed to paint it on down so that you won't see where you stopped off   and still not get it on the carpet  
because every time you move that [edger] then it gets the carpet into it  
you can't hold it there until it's dried  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i see  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's for sure  
well we uh  
i just got married about six months ago  
and we bought a house at the same time  
so we're  
i'm sitting here in my forty year old house  
and we're about halfway through the painting process  
so uh the only uh  
i guess the the big discussion just kind of what you were mentioning has been the color  
we ended up with our our living and dining room are now uh kind of a a light peach color with uh  
and it's got all the old original hardwood trim and stuff  
so we've got the trim in kind of uh kind of an off white  
and this is really the first uh interior painting project that i've attacked  
and it's it's been uh it's been something else to say the least  
we we had the same type of situation  
uh the walls were uh uh  
well they weren't  
the color difference wasn't so bad  
but uh there was semigloss underneath  
and we put a flat over the top  
and everywhere you'd miss there'd be this little bright spot you could see  
it seems like you could see it through about three layers of paint  
every time the sun would come up in the morning i'd see another spot and have to drag out the paint can  
but uh we've learned  
we we uh we worked we've worked our way back into the hallway  
and and we're in the middle of the bathroom now  
but uh it's it's been quite an adventure  
the other the other thing that makes it uh a little more difficult we've got all hardwood floors  
and uh we we've learned to be a little more careful about covering up the floors since the since the first time we spent a lot of time on the floor with a tooth [toothbrush] and what not cleaning up  
well it's it's not too bad  
it it uh  
the floors are finished with a [polyurethane]  
and it's really not to bad to get off  
it  
it  
we're just using latex  
and it's not too bad to get it off once it's dried even  
it it it uh comes off with like a mild [abrasive] pad like a [scotch] [brite] pad or something like that and and soap and water  
so we got pretty lucky on that  
no  
not really  
but  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
probably so  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i uh  
yeah  
we uh our house was painted as part of the purchase contract  
so we didn't have to mess with that this time  
but i've i i grew up on a farm  
so i i've i've messed with outdoor painting a little bit uh  
but most of that it was done with a [sprayer] and uh up in the bucket of a [loader] tractor or something like that  
so it took a lot of the hassle out  
and then   they're  
we're not you know you're not nearly as concerned with a barn or a [grainery] or something like that as you would be with your own house  
uh a little bit  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh gosh  
yeah  
just just the opposite of what everybody's uh working towards now  
yeah  
yeah  
absolutely  
yeah  
we uh we [stocked] up the first time around  
but we've definitely got all the [formulas] on file  
and uh we're they'll be there for a while  
we're we're pretty comfortable with that  
but yeah it  
it  
i'm i'm real nervous every time i i open a new can  
i'm wondering if i shouldn't buy about twenty gallons at one time and keep it all in a in a [washtub] or something somewhere because i'm i'm always afraid that the next coat is not going to match  
but uh it's gone pretty well  
it just  
it it takes it takes some time  
my problem is while i  
i'm not overly proud of it  
but i'm a self [proclaimed] [proclaimed] [perfectionist]  
and it it takes me a long time to do trim and things like that  
and i'll find i'll find something as i'm going along something not related  
like like uh i've gone about changing out all the outlets and switches because they they really didn't match  
they were  
a few of them were broken and things like that  
so i always pick up these little extra tasks as i'm doing this  
and and the painting actually takes probably uh a fourth of the time  
and i'm always doing all this other stuff  
and my wife's hollering at me and wondering what else i've come home with from work this time to to put in a ceiling fan or something strange like that  
so uh it it it always  
it it it gets you to look at everything real hard when you start putting a coat of paint on everything  
you start to notice where all the dents and scratches and things are everywhere  
yeah  
yeah  
it sure makes a difference  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's been uh  
we we bought this house with the idea that we were going to spend you know spend a lot of time working on it  
and uh it was part you know  
part of the excitement was was getting a good deal on an older house that just it really hadn't been taken care of very well  
it it was actually  
it was rented out for a couple of years and things like that  
so we uh we ended up getting a fairly good deal on it  
but uh there just isn't enough time  
i i i find myself going to work knowing that that there's a job about half done at home  
and i really  
if i would if i'd just stay home and finish it i'd feel a lot better  
but uh i'm i'm starting to learn that there's always something else  
once you get done you can always start over  
and and you make up all kinds of excuses  
so uh   uh not a whole lot  
it  
they're they're in pretty good condition um as far as uh major repairs you know a lot of little filling holes and nicks and things like that  
but uh the only  
the most major things have been uh-oh i guess i i moved a couple of outlets and er uh switches i should say  
for some reason they put a bathroom light switch in the hallway  
and uh  
yeah  
and i i didn't like that very well  
so i i moved that  
but uh most of it most of it's in pretty good shape  
uh live in dallas  
okay  
okay  
uh  
no  
no  
i haven't  
uh i hadn't tried  
in fact we were we were planting flowers this weekend  
so uh i was pretty tied up  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that uh  
yeah  
you know it  
i get a i get a sore neck from looking up all the time yeah things like that  
but uh no  
that pretty much covers my experiences  
oh yeah  
most definitely  
it it just  
it makes such a difference  
i  
like i say the overall appearance of this house is what really devalued it so much  
uh i you know i i don't want to put a price on it  
but i just feel like we're every every gallon of paint adds a tremendous amount of value to the house  
you know every time i do something aside from that it just makes me feel a whole lot better to come home an you know the walls are clean  
and they match and all those kinds of things  
yeah  
yeah  
we do  
it uh it sometimes works  
and it sometimes doesn't  
it's a uh  
when i start doing trim i i've gotten to where i i tend to [freehand] it because there's so many layers of paint on this house after forty years that uh it it's so hard to tell where an edge is anymore  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
they  
no  
there's no carpet in the house right now  
um  
well you know um  
yeah  
i i've i've seen uh  
they're they make some plastic edging stuff that comes in like three foot lengths  
and you can uh you can tape them together  
and and and put  
hi  
you didn't try [rewallpapering]  
you just uh  
did you use a textured paint  
or  
um  
well did you get good results  
yeah  
but it just didn't it didn't it didn't cover it  
well we did a uh  
we moved oh last august  
and we're getting a house  
my house had this dark wood paneling at the end of the den  
and we decided  
we went to i've forgotten one of the paint stores  
and they just said oh you can get by  
and i forgotten what it was you put down and then you can just paint right over the dark  
well more or less  
after about uh half dozen coats it looks reasonable  
but it kept  
the the dark  
it was uh just a real dark uh wood grain type paneling  
and it was smooth  
and uh and we would we put this stuff on  
and and it supposedly textured it or did something to it  
and but because of the dark behind it it was really hard to cover  
and  
yeah  
it was something like that although we sort of when we got through i wished we hadn't done it  
because we were you know we were trying to make the house look nice to sell it  
and we were painting it and trying to do uh you know make it  
and it it really was you know  
the advice they give you is uh  
the job was considerably tougher than we thought  
uh particularly when you try to  
i was talking to somebody else who who had a lot of wood [panelling]  
and uh they had gotten somebody to come in with an estimate  
and it seemed like there was it was a good sized den with a lot [panelling]  
and the people quoted thirty thousand dollars to paint it or something  
have you have you tried getting outside [estimates] to see what it costs to have something painted  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that's quite reasonable  
um problem  
have you have you tried matching paint lately  
my wife  
we we built a shed over the long way  
actually it took  
this is not on the topic  
but i did finish it  
but my wife went to the uh home depot i think it was and and took a uh a copy took a piece of brick  
and she wanted to paint the shed  
it's it's a wooden shed uh  
and she took it  
and they've got this machine that matches the color of paint  
and uh they got  
and uh and in fact she put some right  
she got  
they mixed uh a gallon of it  
and uh it's just remarkable how close it will match the paint uh  
and it does it uh-oh electronically some something   magic  
yeah  
you know they  
but it's electronic  
uh you put your sample under this thing  
and it looks at it and uh and determines the  
and it it's really remarkable  
uh the problem they had  
and then they wanted some gray to do the to do the trim  
and uh but they didn't didn't occur to them that um that they could have taken a sample   um from  
i forgotten  
this is [sherwin] williams paint or something  
but anyway it's it's remarkable  
that's one of the problems though when you start painting to try to get the you know  
you want this you want this to look like this  
and you want that to look like that  
and   of course if it's all white you're all right  
but when you start getting into colors  
have you had problems getting colors to match  
um  
so  
gosh  
so you  
so what's your  
what's the solution then  
oh my  
well at least you'll get very good at it right  
you could go back and and paint   the whole thing over  
that's uh this is an interesting topic that they would bring up painting  
because it uh it seems like everybody has a you know to go in and do  
i'll just do a little bit here and a little there  
although the uh  
it's uh it  
we almost one day  
we painted the house to uh  
we painted we painted the whole inside  
and it had all this dark trim  
we thought uh you know  
we did the one wall but the other trim  
i'm trying to think  
i think i think we left most of it because it gets to be uh  
they don't do that in the newer houses now  
we don't  
the mold   everything is white  
in a new house everything is white  
oh good luck  
we wound up selling the house  
actually i i don't know whether it made  
actually it does  
it's interesting that the white um makes the rooms look bigger  
one of the  
in our down stairs in our dining room we have a formal dining room it has molding uh like picture frames i don't know what you call that   that actually that are along the walls you know up a couple of feet  
and my wife painted those the insides of those dark blue  
and uh it makes the room look remarkably smaller  
the trim   is still white  
the   the molding  
but by  
and she did that all the way around the room which makes it look very attractive  
but it makes the room look smaller which is uh   uh which is  
it explains why they why they have everything white  
but i   you wouldn't think that i  
well maybe   maybe that understands colors would know all of that stuff  
but  
uh not particularly  
because the house has so many windows  
uh it has  
the the the living room has four uh good size windows  
and uh well of course at night  
but with the  
we have we have a soccer field   that's um oh about a hundred yards from our house  
and the lights shine right at our house  
it's kind of  
we didn't know that when we bought the house  
but  
yeah  
we have a lot of light  
yeah  
and well it it it um well it's just uh i think it's just the the the dark blue to about three feet  
and then above that we left it white  
so anyway it didn't   it didn't change  
but the the interesting thing is that paint we wound up having to go back and scrape some of that away  
it didn't  
it kind of [bled] under the masking tape which i guess is probably the topic we're   we're really on to that that the masking is  
you have to do that very very carefully  
that's right  
you can work yourself to death  
well i'm sorry to hear your color didn't come out so good over the weekend  
it's kind of frustrating  
well i've got to go to a meeting  
it's been good talking to you  
okay  
good bye  
hi uh  
as a matter of fact this past weekend since we had a long weekend i uh took on a painting project in my bathroom  
and i had wallpaper up  
i had to completely strip the wallpaper off and then [spackle] holes and then paint that  
and it took me all weekend  
because uh the wallpaper getting it off i had to wet the walls down  
and that had to dry  
and then the spackling had to dry a day  
and then the painting took another day  
no  
i i just painted  
uh no  
actually the wall behind the paper was smooth  
so i just used a like a semigloss  
and  
well no  
not really  
i need to  
it it looks so   bad you can see where those spackling marks were  
i need to uh either paper back over it or do something  
yeah  
it covered the spots pretty good  
but it didn't excuse me it didn't uh uh it just didn't look as smooth as i wanted it to  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
was it like a [primer]  
yeah  
oh my goodness  
that's an awful lot  
not inside  
now uh when we bought the house that we live in right now we had a company that came out and painted it  
that was one of the requirements from you know f h a   that the house be painted before we bought it  
and it was fairly reasonable  
we have a brick house  
but all the trim   around the house was uh  
if i remember right it was like five hundred dollars  
yeah  
yeah  
so that wasn't too bad  
no  
i haven't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
so   they did do a good job  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
as a matter of fact uh what we've got ours painted now is kind of a light creamy color and a uh a blue  
and the blue even so many years two years later or so it doesn't match   you know  
it's the very same type of paint and everything  
so  
oh i have no idea  
i repainted the whole thing  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
white  
yeah  
that's what we're trying to get ours to look like  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
huh she painted the insides dark blue and then the trim   what color  
okay  
white  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh what about the [lighting]  
did it make a big difference  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so that uh  
you get some  
the color doesn't really matter for because you have that light  
i see  
uh_huh  
and it takes a long time  
yeah  
really  
no kidding  
it is  
a lot of work  
a lot of work  
nice talking to you  
bye  
so what is your latest experience with painting  
uh_huh  
right  
isn't that amazing  
it it looks so easy just [slapping] paint on  
i had an addition put on  
and um we and i decided   because my inner room looked so dingy   because i put these beautiful french doors in  
and so i decided okay i'll just you know have them paint this little room you know a little ten by ten dining area  
it took four days  
and even the painter couldn't give me a good estimate  
he said well i'll be done this afternoon you know  
and pretty soon before you know it you know he's run into so many problems  
and it's just  
there's nothing there to be a problem i thought  
but um it just took him so much longer  
and   and he was there to paint the french doors also  
um and if you've ever painted french doors which my husband just finally said he wasn't going to do   because it looked so [formidable]  
um then then just  
we we got this painter  
and i just called him because i got a little ad out of the you know the [adcose] or whatever in the mail and uh you know just got this painter person over here  
and he said yeah i can finish it in a day  
oh right  
so the whole project basically took a week  
funny  
and i go what makes you a professional you know  
how much you know more do you know than i know about this whole situation  
but he just kept painting on those french doors you know  
and each little um   paint stroke you know the paint wasn't going on right is what it was  
so he had to redo them like three times before i was happy with them before he was happy you know that they even looked halfway decent  
and   so it's just been painting yeah  
i mean hire a professional  
but that doesn't guarantee anything  
right  
oh no  
oh and that can make a difference   too  
i mean and they bring the uh you know little samples  
and you've got like maybe five hundred  
well that's an [exaggeration]  
but there are just so many tints upon tints upon tints  
and you don't know what you to want to   put up there  
and by the time it's on i i  
selected a what i thought was white  
and it was like you said you know it was blue   blue cast to it  
and it looked awful on  
so that was the next problem  
he had to redo that too  
i  
this was a  
and it was a major project getting the money together to do it too by the end   of the whole project  
but you know we worked something out because he was kind of [apologetic] that it took so long  
he really came over here to paint i think because he kept offering to paint the outside of my house  
i don't think he did the interiors very well  
and yeah  
no  
uh_huh  
it wasn't a big deal for them  
i don't know  
i think my husband's really glad about that  
for sure  
you just you just get in there and do it yourself  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's it's not that easy  
it's like it's uh  
i don't even know if i you know i would not even recommend this person again to anybody  
i don't know  
a  
i guess you  
i i don't know if you get into the mind set where you just say well i'll accept something or you just really have to get on their back i mean   about things and and working with what they say are professional painters  
i mean  
i tell you what the fumes that the the paint gives off makes you wonder what these people do  
i mean the fumes are amazing  
and i i don't think i could stay sane   you know   and working with all that  
so i mean i know it's not lead based any more paints  
but   my goodness  
i  
well yeah  
i think so  
oh it does  
oh  
yeah  
right  
well maybe there are some professionals out there  
it makes you wonder  
really it does   uh for all that  
well um i hope you have a nice day today  
and you take care  
okay  
okay  
bye kay  
well i don't  
i haven't done any painting since i was a child  
and my father would be painting and i'd ask him if i could you know take a turn or something  
but uh  
when we bought our home it was recently updated  
they did that maybe improvements so they could sell it and things  
so we didn't have to do any painting  
and the condominium we moved in before my husband went over and painted  
but i  
the experience that i've had is that um whatever time he gave said oh it would take me about just about four hours   because it was only about like eleven or twelve hundred square feet over there  
and he said oh it's going to be just about four hours  
well he was gone the whole day  
and he said well all i got done was the taping around  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i know  
it's just awful  
[pane]  
uh_huh  
um  
no  
and it really  
like you said always takes way longer than anyone um is able to guess because i know my husband he he painted when he  
it was just the preparation time was so long   that when he actually got down to the painting part   he it was like ten times longer than he already thought he would be done  
and and uh he did part of the in the at night because we were trying to hurry up and get it ready so we could move in  
and um and he didn't notice until the next morning that the shades of paint between the two paint cans he had finished one can off and started another one  
and then we went in there you know one was  
they were white  
but one had more blue to it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
oh boy  
well i don't recall my parents having that much trouble  
i mean you know they painted our rooms all the time  
and we had a a wooden  
we hardly  
we just had brick on like as accent   on a certain area of our home growing up  
and so he had to paint the outside all the time  
and um i just don't think you know that there was that big problem  
no  
but to us you know  
we're going oh we're so glad we have a brick home all we have is like trim around the windows or something  
and  
no uh   no painting to have to do  
i i don't know that  
like uh say we're freshly graduated from school and things  
so we haven't gotten to the point where we're hiring professionals to do too much of our needs  
we've been trying  
you know we've done that the whole time we were in school like   trying to repair our own cars  
and   so i i want to get to the point where i could feel like i could just hire someone  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
no  
but still   it's harmful  
and they have to live with that every day   in in their clothes and everything  
the only painting job that was really painless for us was in this condominium that the um association that manages it they have to take care of like the [structural] damage  
there was a roof leak  
and that was not something that we had to pay for  
so they sent their painters in to to repaint a corner of the ceiling and then you know repaint the whole ceiling   in a certain room  
but they came in and um they came in and did it and left in just no time at all  
and i think it's because they you know they were accustomed to working in that environment in those particular condominiums  
and i don't i didn't watch them  
but i couldn't imagine that they came in and painted it the whole ceiling you know just within a couple of hours  
and uh  
uh_huh  
um  
well you too  
i guess it's getting to be lunch time  
i need to go take care of the kids  
but  
you have a good day  
bye  
okay  
we're [energized]  
um painting  
interesting  
uh the guy called me  
when she called me the computer called me i thought that they were reading my mind  
i'm in the middle of um going out for [bids] to have my house painted  
uh painting is not hard to do uh   as long as it's not in not to the point of where it's uh needs to be scraped and peeling  
and our house is not  
but it's starting to [bleed] through and burn through because the [paint's] real cheap  
and it's just a hassle to go through it  
so i'm looking for the easy way out  
it's easier to find painters  
but you have to be you have to be aware of what uh how messy they can get and are they going to put on a good a good two coats and are they   going to [caulk]  
exterior  
yeah  
uh [interior's] not so bad because it's more fun  
it's more  
but yeah  
outside you have high [peeks]   and those kind of things  
it can be a real issue  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
here they  
some of the home builders are  
they don't put brick on the side of your house just to save money  
so they put up uh a quarter inch [masonite] basically  
and they painted it kind of like a spun of a sorts  
so it's real cheap  
and uh uh i've had thirteen hundred dollar bid and i as low as five hundred and forty dollars  
so it's   just a matter of  
it's  
oh there one guy [brags] about his piece of equipment he's using and the drop cloths and all that kind crap  
and i'm so much worried about that as what   i don't want it all over the brick and windows  
and  
oh sure  
so y'all you haven't had any any jobs painted in your house or recently  
that's fun  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh that's not very  
oh they just painted over [varnished] wood  
oh my  
um  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh no  
um  
i wish you good luck  
thank you very much  
bye bye  
okay  
oh  
no  
right  
yeah  
uh i know  

is easy to find uh painters to do this for you  

are you talking   outside or inside  
exterior  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well when we've painted um  
right now our house doesn't have to have the same kind of exterior painting there  
it's more trim because it has some of the old [asbestos] shingles   on the back and there's some sort of stone or something in the front  
so there isn't as much wood that has to be painted  
um but it  
the problem is that it hits the sun hits it  
so preparing is a real problem  
you've got to prepare it well  
or else it will flake  
um  
wow   that's quite a range  
yeah  
yeah  
which might be a bigger problem than it would be uh  
yeah  
absolutely  
no  
we've have uh done a little painting ourselves um  
we painted the bedroom uh well within the last couple of months  
and we have we have some more that need to be done  
but the the problem that we've we've owned this house almost five years now  
and um when we bought it the um it had been vacant for a while because the family will retired  
but the daughter was a real estate agent  
and she was selling it  
and it's been lived in briefly by her before she bought her town house  
so she told us that the house had been uh professionally painted recently  
and it looked pretty good you know the uh the interior walls all basically white  
but they obviously had been done without to much uh wear afterward  
the only problem was when we started having the [movers] move the furniture in we identified various rooms by pieces of masking tape on the uh the door frames  
when we took the masking tape off half the painted came with it  
big long strips  
so what had happened is that professional painters had not prepared the surface properly  
and some of still has to be redone  
yeah  
well no  
actually it had been uh it would have been it had been a repaint job  
but they had not  
either they had painted with the wrong kind of paint over top  
or they hadn't really roughed it up or whatever they  
because it was woodwork  
so it looked as if it had been painted   correctly with you know uh an enamel or something  
but um it had not  
either that or it had not been prepared underneath  
and it was greasy or something  
it comes off in strips i mean not even little bit  
so we still have some of that trim work to do because we put it off all this time  
we know what a job it's going to be  
because you almost have to strip the whole thing   in order to do it again  
okay  
thank you  
bye  
what kind of painting are you planning to do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh what would be interesting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've never done any of those fancy kinds of paint treatments  
but they look very interesting  
and you get some beautiful effects with them  
yes  
yeah  
i've seen that done where there's uh-oh  
i saw one that was kind on an [ecru] [undercoat]  
and then it had a little bit darker sort of [peachy] color  
and in between there was a sort of a rust uh put on very [sparingly]  
and it gave the impression of very old [weathered] stucco  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that should be nice  
uh_huh  
well uh  
yeah  
i was about to say you ought to experiment on at least a small part of it before you just tackle the whole thing  
because you might find that it's beyond uh what you're willing to put into it   although i think it could turn out really nice  
i haven't ever done fancy painting  
but i sure did my share of just regular painting  
uh i've painted several houses inside  

i   never painted the outside  
well uh we used a latex uh wall paint and then a semigloss enamel for the woodwork  
and my job was mostly the woodwork  
my husband would paint the walls and ceilings with the rollers  
and i got to do all of the masking tape and then all of the little fine uh trim work   where i'd use a small brush and uh try to keep the paint from dripping on the windows and things like that  
uh_huh  
well i was going to ask if you planned to paint over it or try to strip it  
i have heard that they've got these [steamers] you can rent now which make it much easier to get wallpaper off  
um i tried to get wallpaper off once twenty years ago oh with a just a [scraper] and wet sponge  
and it took forever  
i would not recommend that method  
uh if   if you can rent a steamer if it's modern wallpaper it should come off without too much trouble  
if it's really old you don't know what it's put on with  
yeah  
uh_huh  
could be  
yeah  
um if it's vinyl it should be easier to strip too  
if it's paper it will probably shred  
um uh_huh  
well the wallpaper that i was trying to remove was black  
this was in a bathroom too  
and the the tiles were sort of a [mottled] [grey] and had a little trim strip of [maroon] and white  
and the the wallpaper in that bathroom had a black background  
and then it had [vivid] uh almost neon colors of hot pink and [turquoise] and [lime] green and silver and uh a little bit of yellow that looked like [coral] [sands] and sea horses and things like that  
oh it was awful  
it was absolutely [hideous]  
and and we had a dinner party before we started [renovating] it  
and a a guest went in there  
and he said it's a good thing i went to the bathroom before dinner because if i had had something to drink and went in there i would think i was having [hallucinations]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'd say tackle one project first and see how it goes  
and if you discover you like it then you can always upscale  
sure  
yeah  
well it's not hard to do if you get everything prepared ahead of time  
because if you uh use drop cloths to cover everything and you use masking tape to trim out uh all the parts that you don't want to [slop] over onto you don't have to be quite as precise about how you do it  
and it can be done a whole lot faster   and with rollers and uh modern latex paints  
you can wash up easily because they're water [soluble]  
and they dry fast  
so you really don't have to be disrupted for more than about a weekend if you have some help  
and then if that if you discover the little tricks and tips about you know how you get through corners and how you do trim and uh how long to leave the masking tape down because if you leave it too long and it dries it can flake when it when you pull it up  
well not  
if you leave it on for weeks it will do that  
if you take it up the next day it should be fine  
you want it to get dry but not uh just real hard  
you don't want the gum on the back of the masking tape to get dried to hard  
that's the problem  
it will come up a lot easier if you don't wait too long  
and i've i was told  
i always used the nice wide masking tape  
but i've heard from people who tried to get by and [skimp] on narrow masking tape that it was more trouble than it was worth   because it it [rips] as you pull it off for one thing  
and then you end up [tediously] scraping these tiny little [shreds] of masking tape  
and the whole point of using it is to save yourself work  
you can do a little faster painting and much easier clean up if you use the masking tape  
but use use good uh stuff and buy it at a paint store where they have the right brands   that will go down and come up easily  
well i wish you very good luck with it  
and i will tell you that i have retired from the painting business  
the last time i had something done was my kitchen cabinets  
and i decided that was too much to tackle  
i'd hire a professional  
well if i were closer i might  
oh well i hope your project turns out great  
and i really think that it's exciting that you're going to try the sponge painting  
i think that could give it a really a  
well of course that's the other advantage of paint  
if you don't like it all you do is put on another coat  
i guess we'd better go because our time looks like it's about up  
okay  
bye bye  
thank you  
well i have wallpaper in both of my bathrooms right now which is really pretty disgusting  
and um it's a rent house  
and i decided it's too expensive to [rewallpaper]  
so i decided i'm going to paint  
and i've been buying some magazines and stuff and looking at different ways to paint  
and i'm thinking about maybe sponge painting them   either that or maybe rag rolling   to give it kind of a country look  
yeah  
uh one of the books that i bought where it's describing the sponge painting said you can like layer different colors  
and  
uh_huh  
ugh  
yeah  
um what i what i'm trying to do is i've got yellow tile in both the bathrooms  
so i want something that's going to tie that together  
and i'm changing the like the towel racks and stuff the the fixtures out to make them wood  
i'm going to put wood in there  
so it's going to have kind of a country look  
um and i haven't even decided as far as um what kind of paint to buy  
i don't have an actual instruction book  
so i'm really in kind of the beginning stages right now  
um it's going to be a big experiment  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i've  
uh_huh  
inside  
what what kind of what kind of paint do you normally use  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we only have only one of our bathroom has a window in it  
so i'm hoping that um it won't be too much of a a problem  
um i'm wondering if my bigger problem is getting the wallpaper taken down first because i i think  
no  
i'm i'm planning on taking it off  
um  
okay  
well that's something that that's worthwhile checking into then because i  
it it's hard to tell  
it's  
the patterns look like they're nineteen sixties style  
and i know the house um was built around the mid fifties  
so it may be the original wallpaper  
um in one bathroom it's um it's probably paper uh  
it's silver silver and yellow   and white  
um that's kind of an odd color for a bathroom  
really  
well i i've also been thinking about after looking at all these magazines um these design magazines and stuff i'm thinking about maybe painting the bedroom walls too in a color that will kind of um tie in our um our um our uh [comforter]   with a color that's kind of a um burgundy and green and yellow and blue and [beige] [floral] design  
um and i'm not really quite sure  
i don't know if maybe i'm biting off more than i can chew  
yeah  
well the bedroom would probably be the easier of the two because it would be just plain painting  
it wouldn't be any kind of special um special effects type thing  
it would be just plain paint  
um okay  
uh_huh  
um  
it it [peels] the paint off when you take it off  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
oh really  
okay  
um  
okay  
well i really appreciate all the helpful tips  
i think you are just made my project a lot easier  
if you were if you were closer i'd i'd i'd tell you you could come over and supervise  
well we'll see how it goes  
i may just be flat painting over it  
yeah  
yeah  
i i need to go to the dentist  
so  
it's was nice talking to you [kathleen]  
bye bye  
so have you done any painting projects lately  
oh really  
what kind of   painting was it  
uh_huh  
it was it  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well what kind of paint did you use for the um [bookends]  
uh_huh  
so you can't use oil on wood  
oh so you had to go around with paint all over you   temporarily anyway  
oh  
oh is is that what you usually use in the house is latex  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i heard about that  
i guess a friend of mine had a uh well  
she she just started up a day care center  
and uh the one of the real strict uh restrictions was the fact that she had to have a special kind of paint that was fire proof and lead free and all that other good stuff  
so uh she had that done  
but uh  
well um so to speak i had to paint this uh the inside of this warehouse thing   that you keep some um farm equipment in  
and um what i had to do is just coat this bare wood with a [sealer]  
and uh i had this big five gallon [jug]  
and it was like paint thinner  
i mean i you know it looked just like it was the [viscosity] of paint thinner  
but uh you just took a roller and put it on there  
and uh if you saw that the wood was getting wet you know that was that was all you needed  
so  
yeah  
it was  
it used all of it  
i guess it was about three hundred yards worth  
so well i guess it worked out  
it was pretty easy actually  
well what about the trim in your house  
did you have to do that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
did you have uh one coat or two  
uh_huh  

yeah  
that would be really time uh a time [saver]  
uh_huh  
oh me i would have had to have taped the whole thing and then brushed around the edges  
and and then i'd have probably rolled it on  
i'd it would have taken me forever  
yeah  
well the first time it'd probably would have taken me forever  
so  
well how long did it take you all  
uh_huh  
so there was two of you all  
well that's easy enough  
um  
i think i could probably do it   uh as long as the hardware store told me what to buy then i could do it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
this is a great topic for me   because i just did my first two painting projects ever  
was not not a big deal  
two little deals  
the first one um  
i helped someone repaint an apartment  
and it was very easy  
yeah  
and i've never painted  
i always thought it would be  
so you know you'd have to hire someone if you needed to paint inside your house or something  
but i know i can do it  
and the second one was i bought some toys at a um at a craft fair  
they're unfinished wooden book ends and stuff for a little girl for christmas  
and so i decided to paint them  
and that wasn't as easy as painting the apartment  
well it's uh it that's half the problem right there is that it wasn't it was a oil base  
so i had to get  
and when i painted them i didn't realize that we didn't have any [turpentine] or paint thinner or anything in the house  
so i had it had it all over my hands  
at first i didn't realize you know  
i had never painted anything  
so i didn't realize   that i needed that  
i mean i kind of knew in the back of my mind  
well no  
you can use it on wood  
but i just had it all over my hands  
and i went to wash the brushes out and uh wash my hands  
and you can't wash it off with water  
you have to get the uh a solution  
and  
yeah  
i had to drive to the store  
yeah  
i had to drive to the store with paper [towels] all over my hands to go buy   some paint thinner and and everything like that  
and then um downstairs in the apartment i just we just used a latex base  
and so you can drip it on you know  
if you [dripped] it on something as long as you wiped it up it was real easy to clean  
yeah  
and and   it it just like  
the same with the toys  
it's just important to look for one that doesn't have lead in it you know  
it says safe for children and all that  
yeah  
have you painted anything recently  
wow was it huge  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
i think though um we're lucky that we didn't have to do any detail work because i don't know if i could you know  
i don't know  
i don't know  
must be difficult  
no  
it was it was really easy  
i just like what  
we had a couple of different size brushes   you know real easy  
i went around the trim  
and if it  
and there was wall paper  
like i was do just doing just the trim outs that around the doors and windows  
and there was wall paper  
and   if we got it on the wall paper a little bit we just wipe it right away before it dried  
it came right off  
so there was no major mistakes  
there was  
uh two actually  
um and it  
there was um  
you know around the windows if you got it on the glass we let it dry and scraped it after that  
but that  
well yeah  
if you just you know  
we didn't tape anything  
we weren't that careful  
but it wasn't you know  
i don't know it's it's funny  
it's like if you just go slow you don't get or at least i didn't get that many mistakes  
i didn't make that many mistakes  
why  
just because you'd be afraid to do it or have you done it before  
well it wasn't  
if it was my own i would have  
but my friend said oh just go ahead you just go ahead   it's easy  
i said okay it's your place  
well a couple of week ends  
we would go down   two or three hours on the weekends  
and  
no  
there was they were doing all sorts of repairs  
and there was i was just painting because i don't know how to do anything else  
so there's a whole bunch of people  
so now i feel like if i ever buy a house i can probably paint if nothing else  
yeah  
but you know i went in to a hardware store to get paint for those toys  
and the guy said oh get this it's a nice shiny gloss which was true  
but i didn't realize what you know pain it is to clean the brushes and everything if you don't have latex  
i don't if  
it's worth the shine  
okay  
mike i guess we'll be talking about painting recently  
any kind of recent painting you've done uh yourself  
have you done any recently  
uh_huh  
wow  
wow  
that's that's quite a chore  
yes  
i imagine it did  
did you have that done professionally  
or did you do that yourself  
did you enjoy that  
oh that's that's fun  
we just recently uh had our boys' room  
our two oldest boys share a room  
and they're uh the paint has uh kind of [faded] and deteriorated  
and so we decided to paint their room and put up wallpaper and border and so forth  
and uh looks quite good  
we were quite pleased with the result  
yes  
it's a project uh that i did  
yes  
and and uh  
well  
i don't think it's sun exposure  
but uh boys will be boys  
and there there were [crayon] marks on there  
and   we had to to scrub the [crayon] marks off of course try and get it clean  
pardon me  
yes  
it was  
it was latex paint  
and that's uh what we put back on there was a latex paint  
plus uh they had bunk beds  
and the boy one of the younger boys when he was younger about three years old got a uh got a nice [marker] and got up on the ceiling and decided to draw pictures  
yes  
on the ceiling  
and uh you scrub and you scrub  
but you can't it all off  
and so that's one of the reasons why we painted  
and uh  
we used a flat latex paint  
and in the bedroom as i understand that's uh one of the better type of paints to have   because it's not so reflective and and [glassy] colored  
and it uh turned out real real well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you had to prime it and   and cover over it  
huh  
well i like to use this this sears uh the ten year guarantee or the fifteen year guarantee  
yeah  
and the reason being is once i painted i don't want to have to go and do it another five or seven years later  
but uh  
and uh we're quite satisfied with that  
and and occasionally you can watch for it and get it on sale  
and we do do that  
in fact i was just reading an article  
you mentioned painting your bathroom  
i read an article recently that uh you have to be very careful on the kind of paint you put on the ceiling in your bathroom because it does tend to to peel or come off because of the moisture high moisture content in your bath bathroom  
and uh did you have any problems with that  
or  
oh good  
uh_huh  
oh good  
neither have i  
oh good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do you uh have you ever used an oil base paint  
uh_huh  
why do you use that  
i'm i'm kind of learning at this new at this  
but   it [adheres] better or lasts longer  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
right  
well that's good  
that's good  
uh have you ever done any painting outside  

well we uh remodeled a bathroom   and which required uh completely repainting the bathroom  
and the other project we've done around here is uh we've remodeled all our all our closets   which required quite a bit of painting  
no  
we did it ourselves  
did it myself  
yeah  
is this a project you did yourself  
what what brought about the fading of the paint  
just sun exposure  
oh okay  
yeah  
latex paint  
latex  
uh_huh  
on the ceiling  
yeah  
no  
that's true  
did you go what kind of paint did you use on the ceiling  
okay  
uh_huh  
seems like uh i've we've done some remodeling of some uh rental houses that we have  
and it appears as though that uh-oh in the fifties or sixties when some of these houses were built uh they used a lot of uh semigloss type enamel for ceiling paints  
and that was a little difficult to cover with today's paints   it seemed like  
we had an occasion uh where we had to do some [sealing]   of uh the of the this type of paint before we could paint it  
yeah  
right  
you had pretty good luck with one coat type paint  
you use a particular brand or anything  
weather beater type stuff  
yeah  
understand  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's a lot like uh wall paper  
that's true  
well the particular bathroom that we did is a half bath  
so we didn't have a problem with that  
uh i have had i've uh have never experienced that type of a problem   uh with a latex paint  
so you shouldn't have a you shouldn't have a problem with it  
they're they're pretty well refined today   a lot of the paints  
and sears is one of the better ones  
i've used uh many a gallon of them myself  
uh used oil base paints for trim   you know like around doors and and on doors things like that  
uh primarily because it it seems to be a little more uh well let's say  
well not so much that  
it seems to hold up a little bit better towards the nicks and [dings]   as opposed to uh a latex type paint  
and uh it just you know it it gives you a a [variance] even though it's the same color  
so it's worked out pretty well for us  
uh quite a bit  
painted a couple of houses  
uh recently this summer we painted a uh out building which is a shed that we have on the  
okay  
what do you do artistic painting  
oh you do  
do you do a lot of it  
i i took one class about i guess three or four years ago  
and i've done a little uh  
but it takes a lot of time  
do you sell your projects  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
where do you work at  
now do you ever send any of your stuff to the boutique  
uh_huh  
that keeps you busy  
uh_huh  
have you tried any of the  
well do you cut out your own projects  
huh do you uh ever spray your projects with the i mean a base coat first  
or do you brush it on  
uh_huh  
i just bought a spray gun one of those [airless] uh not [airless] high volume low pressure spray guns  
and i do a lot of woodworking  
and   that's what i bought it for  
but i haven't used it yet  
yeah  
yeah  
uh fine furniture  
yeah  
that's why i brought bought the [sprayer]   is to finish my projects  
that's my worst worst part of my woodworking  
i get so sick of making  
yeah  
but spraying does put on a nicer finish  
for woodworking  
uh let me see  
table saw scroll saw band saw lathe [routers]  
and about it  
yeah  
it is  
yeah  
the band saw is really nice  
i have an [inca]  
i don't know if you've ever heard of those  
but it's nice to have the right equipment  
uh_huh  
uh  
not  
mostly i do like you do give it away as gifts  
but   making my own furniture  
uh just in junior high  
and then i just kept on through high school and then got my own equipment kept up with that  
yeah  
yeah  
like   the shelves and  
for your   tole painting  
good  
well i guess i'll let you go now  
oh they do  
okay  
so this is my first one  
you're probably a veteran   at this  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sounds fun  
where do you buy your tole painting paints at around here  
i am not  
well we live in roy  
but we  
is it on nineteen hundred  
i know where fifty six hundred south is  
is that ben [franklin] then  
uh i do tole painting  
uh_huh  
i really love the tole painting  
uh i haven't done any of the oil or watercolor  
i would like to learn that someday  
but right now my passion is tole painting  
uh_huh  
oh  
it does  
it is real time consuming  
and  
uh mostly i have just given them away as gifts  
uh i've done uh perpetual calendars and cookie jar lids and oh on and on you know just things like that  
but   uh i would eventually like to make enough to sell and quit my job  
i just work at stop and shop out there in in ogden  
so  
no  
i've wanted to do that uh but just haven't just haven't mass produced enough to do that  
so i have five children of my own  
so it's  
they they keep me busy  
and tole painting is just a you know something i do in my spare time  
so  
yes  
uh_huh  
i have my own saws  
and so i really enjoy doing that  
i brush it on  
yeah  
i haven't tried a a spray [varnish]  
i use just a wood [sealer]  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
do you  
oh  
oh well that's that'd probably give you a [smoother] finish wouldn't it  
oh  
now what type of woodworking do you do  
oh   do you  
oh  
oh but it's hard to finish it huh  
oh well that is interesting  
so what kind of equipment do you have  
uh_huh  
boy it sounds like you're really into it  
that is nice  
yeah  
i i just have a scroll saw and a jig saw  
and i am really anxious to get a band saw and a router  
oh  
yeah  
that is that makes it easier doesn't it  
well have you sold any of your furniture  
or   just  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that's interesting  
do you uh did you take classes to learn how to do that  
uh_huh  
oh so yours is mostly just a hobby too then  
oh  
well that is interesting  
oh i would i really would love to go take a class in woodworking and learn how to  
i don't know if i necessarily want to do furniture  
but mostly uh just   do more  
uh_huh  
the woodworking  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
so it's fun  
well they come on  
we're supposed to talk until they come on and   tell us  
yeah  
well it has it has been really fun  
i've enjoyed this uh  
like i say i've made a couple of calls to texas and   just talked to all different kinds of people  
so i think you'll enjoy doing it  
it's fun  
uh you know there's a shop in roy that i really love  
uh and it's there by the copper mill restaurant used to be the [hayloft]  
uh_huh  
uh let's see  
i'm trying to think of the name  
uh i don't right off  
ben [franklin]  
okay  
yes
so what have you painted recently
well my kitchen ceiling has needed painting for uh four years now
and i'm having painted the apartment that i left in syracuse
i i really hesitate to do ceilings
because i get more paint on me than on on the the ceiling
but now that they redid the roofs all of our ceilings need it because it popped a lot of nails so i think this summer
i'm going to take on the kitchen first
and then try to do the others because i want to pull up the carpeting and put hardwood all through the house
so i think
right
i figure by by doing it before i put in the carpeting you know the carpet is so bad whatever i spill it's too bad
right
right
oh i would hope not
because it seems to me that it would get too thick uh and start peeling maybe
i don't know
my my impression is it's more like four four years
it starts needing it
and people usually get around to it at five or six years
oh exterior that long
that would be
uh_huh
but that's just trim right
yeah
right
uh_huh
right
oh okay
okay
um
i know i was going to say what a mess
right
right
yeah
well very good
but
small world
anyway so uh
and then you're pleased with your your jobs once you're done
i mean you don't feel you should have paid somebody to do the same job
you did anyway
but this isn't masking tape
oh
uh_huh
oh great
uh_huh
oh great
do you ever use these
pads i pad the paint on
yeah
right
yeah
right
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
now even with tape i think i was just thinking of using the pads instead of a brush but for ceilings i did try it
and and uh i got a lot of paint on the kitchen table
i was trying to to just patch the the kitchen ceiling there
yeah
and so i have to learn how to use pads but i have a friend in syracuse who who paints everything with pads and she does ceilings
so i'm going to have to ask her what the trick is she'll probably say hire me to come down and do it
right
right
right
that's why i want to do the kitchen first i figure i can stand on the kitchen table
no
i i'm happy with it
but i just don't do it very often
or
very much because it's so time consuming
and because i am tend to be a [perfectionist]
about it
and you know
what i figure is first
i have to scrub the walls and i mean if you hire a painter they don't do that just
the rest look
yeah
but you feel good about it
when you have done it yourself
and you do save a lot of money
but it's a mess
and it's hard to find the time
uh_huh
oh yeah
oh yeah
it does
yeah
i've painted inside
i haven't painted outside and that's what i need done now
um
yeah
that's the work
yeah
yeah
i don't think i'll attempt that myself
i i know i won't
yeah
i'll hire somebody to do that
but in fact i had a [workman] here for a leak that he had to fix and for ten dollars he was willing to paint my daughter's ceiling
so i said go ahead you paint the ceiling and then i'll do the walls and that was that was nice
yeah
for ten dollars
he was saying he was chatting and we were having a good old time
so he just said all right ten dollars i'll do the ceiling
yeah
it is
right
well hers didn't it was just a smooth ceiling
but
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
i have that in my living room and dining room
but we had a leak and the insurance company's going to pay to do the whole area
so that's going to be a good deal
i won't have to worry about that
white oh no
oh no
yeah
i guess i i think i'll go with an off white
i'm changing everything
so
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's all challenging
that's for sure
i've the whole year it's taking me to redecorate my bedroom
and my daughter's bedroom
but it's pretty i love it
i've upholstered walls and made curtains and i did yes
uh_huh
and it looks so nice because you just take sheets and then everything can match
and it looks really pretty
i love it
it's just real feminine and just real pretty
oh it's easy oh if you can do all that you can do walls
oh there's nothing to it you can do a wall in half an hour
uh uh staple gun is all it takes
i did i put the batting uh_huh
and just staple it up there and staple your sheets up and then yeah
and then you can glue a little edge around
if you want to like i took some [eyelet] lace and i just hot glued it around the edge
but it's nothing
and it's just beautiful
i love it
it's just beautiful
i love it
i i find it so relaxing and i do
i'm get beginning to like country music more and more since my boss has it on all the time
but um but my very favorite is that new age
i like my favorite recording artist is yani and he's not he doesn't make you [yawn] um i yeah
i've heard of her in fact i was watching the [grammy's] and i i saw her on the [grammy's] uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
she's not too wild
oh
oh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh
oh
oh oh
uh do you have a pet randy  
a poodle miniature or uh full size  
uh_huh  
i read somewhere that the poodles is one of the the most intelligent dogs uh around  
oh uh_huh  
so you you've only known the dog how long did you say  
oh well uh is it  
uh uh how old is the dog  
oh it's still just a pup  
yeah  
i have a uh well a mutt myself  
i call it a uh uh chowperd  
it's uh part chow and part shepherd  
and it  
as i understand it uh both sides of the were [thoroughbreds]  
so she's a genuine chowperd  
she has the the color and the black tongue of a chow  
but uh she has the the shape of the uh uh shepherd  
oh she weighs in at about fifty pounds  
so she's a medium size  
but she's big enough to be [intimidating]   it is a fixed female by the way  
and right from day one she was teaching me  
she's the most intelligent dog i've ever seen  
course i'm a little prejudiced of course  
you know the first time i brought her home she was only uh was it six weeks old  
and i spread the newspapers out in the kitchen area  
but uh next morning she let me know in no [uncertain] terms that she wanted to use the bathroom  
so on next night i spread the newspaper in the bathroom  
and she used them there  
but it wasn't too long until she uh found out she could wait until i let her out in the morning  
and since then i i live alone  
and uh i live in motor home  
by the way i'm uh an r v full time r v  
and it's it's such a pleasure to come home at night  
and you can see her smiling from ear to ear she's so happy to see me  
and uh i don't know if you get that kind of [greeting] or not  
uh_huh  
well my dog's an outdoor type she does not like to be indoors  
uh she'd rather sleep outside on the the cold ground at night  
but uh i do make her come in  
and i feed her indoors that's to lure her in  
but during the day i have her on a uh on a leash   which is uh on sort of a run  
i have a a thirty foot cable   running from one stake to another  
and then attached to that is a uh twelve foot leash  
so she can cover quite an area  
and uh she's the best uh burglar alarm going  
oh yeah  
she uh  
it's the strangest thing though uh children no matter how strange they are or how new they might be can walk uh right up to her  
but adults if they're strange to her or or they look suspicious or something boy she acts like she wants to chew their leg off  
and i have not discovered yet where the the line is between children and adults  
but uh she is a great comfort to me  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
you mean she didn't appreciate all that attention  
uh_huh  
what's her name by the way  
what what do you call the dog  
[mitzi]  
mine is gin  
as in uh [martini]  
actually it's gin two  
because uh when i was a teenager in high school i had gin one  
but then when i went out in the world i couldn't take her with me  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh what a shame  
uh_huh  
oh well  
well randy we've just about used up our time here  
and i must say it was interesting  
i enjoyed talking about pets with you  
maybe we'll get together again in the future  
take care now  
bye  
uh yeah  
currently we have a poodle  
yeah  
uh it's uh miniature  
yeah  
well um i wouldn't uh i definitely wouldn't dispute that  
it it's actually my wife's dog uh i i became part owner six months ago when we got married  
but uh it uh definitely [responds] to uh to authority  
and i've had dogs in the past  
and uh it seems it seems to uh respond real well  
it it  
she's she's picked up a lot of things uh just just by uh teaching by force i guess is what i'd like to say  
well about a year i guess  
it just turned two i believe  
pretty much  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
oh that sounds interesting  
oh that's that's neat  
how about how big then  
yeah  
yeah  
most definitely  
yeah  
oh i wouldn't doubt it  
yeah  
well that's understandable  
yeah  
it's uh  
uh_huh  
okay  
oh  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
definitely  
yeah  
i can honestly say we do uh we uh just recently put a security system in our house  
and so now uh in order to uh to accommodate the motion detectors we have to keep her uh uh locked up in the the master bedroom during the day  
and then she's got the the bedroom and the bathroom to for free run during the day  
but   we've always got uh got a nose and tongue pressed up against the window when we come walking up to the front door  
she's definitely ready to get out and run around  
really  
oh wow  
yeah  
okay  
okay  
okay  
most definitely  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's uh definite security involved in uh in a dog like that  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
that's interesting  
yeah  
i know our dog has had uh some different reactions  
she's never really been around children  
and uh if if the child is is pretty straight forward um she's fine  
if if a child is a little intimidated she'll jump around and and [yip] and bark quite a bit  
and if the child gets scared uh she's still trying to play but she doesn't completely understand what's going on  
and we've had a little confusion with with uh with younger kids  
but uh you know that's  
it's a matter of exposure really  
um we uh took her home to uh my family's place in south dakota  
and she was the one that was intimidated then  
there was about seven kids [ranging] from about uh three years to ten years running around the house all at one time   you know come to visit grandpa and grandma  
and the dog kind of kind of felt out of place then because she was she was being fed and everything else from all directions  
she really didn't know how to handle herself  
she really did  
she just uh  
she she was she was just inundated with with all the attention  
uh she she kind of she kind of sat and it all in for a little while  
and then she'd go get back in and try to play and and what not  
but uh it was it was just such a such a new experience for her  
she's only been around one and and sometimes two people at the most  
so uh  
uh pardon  
oh it's uh [mitzi]  
yeah  
oh okay  
yeah  
i i see  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i had uh a similar uh experience  
i i grew up on a farm  
so i always had uh outdoor pets  
and   uh the dog i had when i moved to dallas about five years ago was a uh springer spaniel black lab cross  
and he was a real a real [lovable] type   but uh definitely not an apartment type animal  
so he uh he had to stay home  
yeah  
yeah  
it really was  
he uh apparently had a tough time with it for a little while  
and then he he got he came to accept the fact that mom and dad were his company from then on  
but uh  
yeah  
okay  
most definitely  
well that's great  
that sounds real good  
you too  
you said you have four cats  
how old are they  
oh gosh  
i haven't had my oldest one quite nine years  
i've had him probably five years  
oh yes  
i love my cats  
i lost one one time uh  
the first one i got  
he jumped off the balcony actually of a second story apartment  
and he'd never been outside like you know by himself outside  
and it started raining  
and i was hysterical  
i was i was  
i mean you would have thought a child had died  
i called everyone i knew  
i had every friend i knew in the apartment searching for this cat  
and they laughed at me  
they thought that was so hysterical  
oh yeah  
the cat was here first  
so i know  
it's hard  
oh how funny  
that's sweet  
i have the two  
the other two cats i have are outdoor cats  
and they didn't used to be actually  
but they got kind of wild and weren't doing very well inside  
so i put them outside once i got a house  
and they're doing great out there  
they love it  
but the other one the first one i got he doesn't want anything to do with outside unless you're there  
other than that he gets scared to death  
if you shut that door he goes into hiding  
i think it's from the time he jumped off the balcony  
and lord knows what happened to him  
he's probably been through all kinds of nightmares  
probably  
are they  
oh no  
oh my gosh  
oh i imagine  
i wonder how many of his lives he missed when that happened  
oh i can imagine  
what did he shoot him with  
oh my gosh  
people are crazy  
oh lord  
oh man  
i imagine  
they usually are after something like that happens to them  
it seems to mellow them or something  
no  
oh yeah  
i i keep talking about getting rid of my outdoor cats because i feel like i don't i can't take care of them as well because they're outside  
and it worries me that one day one of them won't come back  
and i feel like they need a big home a nice place where someone can have the time to play with them and things  
but i can't give them up  
i just i go hysterical when they don't come home  
oh oh yeah  
and every time you see one hit on the side of the road you say is that my cat  
and you go crazy thinking it might be yours  
uh_huh  
ugh  
really  
it's here now  
we have to keep it  
yeah  
my my first one that i got  
i had just moved away from home and got my own apartment  
it took me about two weeks to realize that was real lonely  
so i found this one  
and uh actually it was on a sign at taco bell drive [thru] that said free kittens  
and i thought well that's interesting  
i'll call them  
and he was the only one left  
and his mother had been killed coming back across the road to make sure she'd gotten all her kittens  
and he was the last one she carried across you know  
the whole big sad story  
so of course i had to take him  
i felt so sorry for him after that  
and he is uh you can tell he was weaned too young because he'll nurse on your ears and your fingers  
yeah  
he  
i asked the vet why he did that  
and he said he was probably weaned too young which he was because his mom was killed  
so  
but he is the [lovingest] cat  
everybody people who don't even like cats like him  
he never [meows]  
he he doesn't have any front claws  
i had him declawed  
but he doesn't bite anybody  
he's just he's just kind of there real friendly and [docile]  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we do we call that doing biscuits  
it looks like their kneading bread  
oh i just love cats  
i like dogs  
they're okay  
i had   i had a dog when i lived at home  
but they're a lot more trouble than cats actually  
oh yeah  
they do  
oh they are  
i love it  
it's so funny to get more than one cat together because it brings out their personalities  
and they just act so funny  
really  
uh_huh  
a train of cats running around  
oh how funny  
i can imagine  
yeah  
i wouldn't give anything for my cats  
i love them to death  
what are your [cats'] names  
oh how sweet  
i have [xanadu] and precious and rascal  
precious and rascal are brother and sister  
and they don't look a thing a like  
nothing  
precious is a medium hair yellow cat  
and rascal is a black and white short hair  
they don't look a thing a like  
and they came from the same litter and everything  
oh  
so ugly she's cute  
right  
really  
oh  
is she the oldest one  
really  
oh i know  
it's like the end of the world  
i know that's how i am about [xanadu]  
oh definitely  
yeah  
you can walk a dog  
and that's okay for weekend  
but cats are good all the time  
it wouldn't have  
no  
that would be a problem  
have you seen those uh  
do you ever read [cosmo]  
there was cartoon in [cosmo] about a year or two ago  
and it had this man sitting on a couch with his date  
and there were cats hanging all over him hanging on his clothes you know  
they had ripped him up  
and the couch was ripped up and down at the bottom  
he said of course i love cats  
and they were just all over him and sitting on his head the whole nine yards  
it was so funny  
watch me  
definitely  
oh i wouldn't either  
there'd be no way  
oh really  
oh well  
that's life  
that's how life goes  
i know  
i love mine too  
well it's been nice talking to you  
me to  
bye  
bye  
yes  
i have four cats  
well they range from let's see about a year and a half to nine years old  
yes  
oh okay  
you get so attached to them  
oh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
i understand  
oh no  
i understand  
we uh we've gone through the same things with ours  
we've had you know they've been ill  
i mean i take off work   to take care of my cats you know  
my boss thinks i'm absolutely crazy  
and then we had a baby  
and its like all right who comes first the cat or the baby  
and and then when we go to sleep at night you know it's like my husband and i have to try to get any space on the bed because we have all four of them up there with us  
it's like all right whose corners is this one  
oh uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh no  
yes  
uh_huh  
that's it  
right  
[traumatized] for life here  
oh yeah  
we've  
all four of ours are house cats  
we started out with two with two outdoor cats  
but our neighbor decided he didn't like cats and shot one of them  
oh well he lived through it  
oh i couldn't believe it  
we went through like twenty two hundred dollars worth of vet bills  
the the cat almost died  
and but he turned out to be such a wonderful cat  
oh he loves life now  
and he's like oh thank you so much  
i know  
we wondered about that  
but uh-oh that was a traumatic experience for us too  
uh well uh from what we can tell it was a [pellet] gun  
and then he started chasing him with a bull whip  
oh yes  
absolutely nuts  
but uh luckily enough you know we found the cat in time and uh rushed him to the vet  
and it took us about six weeks of in and out of the vet and surgery  
and    
i mean he started off as a stray  
and then we did all this for him  
but oh he's been a wonderful cat  
oh yes  
but uh we wouldn't we wouldn't have them  
i mean i don't see us without pets without cats  
there's just uh there's this they just fill this void  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh no  
right  
and you worry about oh who's taking care of them  
uh_huh  
right  
well i didn't realize my husband was such a sucker for animals until i brought one home one night  
we i had one that had we had we had to put to sleep he got so sick  
and uh well i fell in love with this uh it's a [chinchilla] persian   and uh brought him home  
and oh my husband just died  
it was like we can't take it back  
you've got we've got to keep it now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh uh_huh  
right  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
right  
right  
oh no  
yeah  
oh  
oh uh_huh  
oh that's good  
oh we just uh just love them  
they uh you know get to feeling so [lovey] and [dovey]  
and they'll come up and just start kneading in our chest  
and it's like oh your claws need trimming  
oh yes  
yes  
oh it just drives us nuts  
um yeah  
they really are  
the cats are so independent  
and they have so much more personality than a dog  
and but oh they're so much fun to watch them play  
yes  
oh we've got  
well the two that were outside they're like brothers  
i mean i've never seen two cats so close  
and uh they uh will get to playing chase through the house  
and it is hysterical i mean  
and then the other two cats will follow in pursuit  
it's like this train  
i mean it sounds like a train  
we have wooden floors  
and so it just sort of echoes through the house  
oh no  
they're just they're they're just uh they're wonderful uh  
uh we have uh [bonzo] bear [poindexter] and [felix]  
and what do you have  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
nothing  
not a thing goodness gracious  
we have uh uh [tortoise] which is a black and and orange  
and she's so ugly  
yes  
uh_huh  
i mean you can't help but love her  
she's she's the oldest one and but uh very [possessive]  
i mean it's like nobody messes with her mamma  
and uh i mean it comes bedtime  
and she's right there  
yeah  
she's the oldest  
and she  
well in fact i got her when i moved out of the house also  
and so yeah  
it's uh  
wouldn't have  
i mean oh if something happens to her  
it will be  
oh goodness  
you get so attached to them  
my mother has dogs  
and i'm like no  
this is nothing like cats  
right  
i'm so glad my husband is a cat person because if he was a dog person no it wouldn't have worked  
oh that's one of the requirements i asked him  
i said now you do like cats right  
we don't  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh the whole time i was pregnant they kept saying are you getting rid of your cats  
are you getting rid of your cats  
you can't be pregnant and have cats  
i'm like uh no no no  
right  
the child will learn to like cats   and deal with them  
i'm sorry  
we are not getting rid of the cats  
the whole family was so disappointed  
right  
right uh  
but yes  
we just just love them to death  
well it was nice talking to you too  
i enjoyed it  
bye  
bye  
okay  
do you have any pets  
oh boy  
sound like us  
we have  
go ahead  
oh what kind is it  
oh so you  
oh he's got a blue tongue  
oh  
we have two [chows] and a miniature schnauzer and recently added a guinea pig which wasn't by my choice  
but i was out ruled  
so but the dogs are mainly mine and my  
but i just love them to death  
daughter  
yes  
yes  
as if the dogs weren't enough had to have a guinea pig  
so anyway she's she enjoys her though  
so that's that's what matters  
but um our [chows] we've had them i'd say right around six maybe seven years  
and  
they're um registered  
and we've been breeding them  
she's had about four or five litters  
oh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh man  
goodness  
it's telling um you know  
when we had um we had a cat when we first married no took  
yeah  
we had the cat first  
and then we got uh the chow  
and bring um bringing them in as puppies they got along just fabulous with her  
and uh you would think you know that they were all dogs the way she would [prance] around them and and [paw] at their face  
and they'd just play  
and they were never they never harmed her  
so uh they got along great  
now i don't know how how it would be bringing in uh like cat to a full full grown dog  
yeah  
right  
i think so too  
five  
she's a real  
right  
and i was not really concerned about um them harming her uh  
i think i think a lot of that that that we hear all the time is how you bring them up  
and ours are real friendly  
they're protective  
but they're very friendly and [lovable]  
i mean you think they're [lapdogs] you know  
they'll just come jump on your lap and want to be have their bellies rubbed and everything  
and  
uh the [female's] red  
and the male is black  
yeah  
he is he's a big old thing  
and um i was concerned about the female mainly  
and as luck had it uh she had puppies the same week my daughter was born  
so it was kind of like she had her babies and understood about you know  
yeah  
and that  
yeah  
i think that really helped and um my daughter you know since since she's little has been playing with them  
and they let her tug their hair and and get on their back or whatever  
and she's she's grown up with them and loves them to death  
and they love her  
so  
i do too  
yeah  
yeah exactly  
that or or uh the other extreme  
they're they're terrified of them  
and i hate that  
and they shouldn't be  
i mean some maybe  
but but um like our miniature schnauzer she's just she's just like um a little hyper thing and just [prances] around and jumps all over everybody acting silly  
and a lot of kids are scared of that and which i understand because she is you know a lot of movement and everything  
but when she [calms] down they're so scared of her  
it's  
it that bothers me because she's the [friendliest] thing  
she wouldn't you know harm them at all  
and and and that's mainly people that have never had pets around their children  
so i think i think it's a good idea to have them  
we've had um in the past we've had birds too uh like [cockatoos]   and parrots and   the big white   birds with the the orange crest on top  
we've had those  
and those are neat  
they're messy very messy   yeah and loud  
oh a lot louder than a dog you know  
a dog you can tell stop barking you know or whatever  
but the birds you it's hard to keep them from [squawking] or whatever  
but but they were neat enjoyable animals to have  
uh_huh  
yeah  
with a lid  
oh yeah  
they  
yes  
yes  
they are  
and in your the luck of keeping them alive   through those first   you know few days  
i know they are  
no  
right  
i don't blame you there  
i think the saltwater are a lot more attractive than  
i don't know  
those fish are just beautiful  
just so  
like you have a little bit of ocean with you or something  
rather than just little fish  
but i don't mind having  
[wren]  
my daughter had a like a little goldfish   a about a year or two ago  
and it finally died  
and that was neat  
but and they're you know  
she can't play with it  
you can just look at it  
you know you can't roll around and [tussle] around with it like you can a dog or a cat  
and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh no  
oh no  
yes  
yeah  
and that's hard  
that's right  
and they're so independent  
i love having them for that reason  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that is hard  
oh  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh fun  
oh no  
oh  
oh no  
oh no  
i guess you didn't get your deposit back did you  
oh good  
oh okay  
oh no  
bless your heart  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yes  
it is  
no  
no  
i wish it was  
i wish they were in that instinct  
but they don't  
our only problem with our schnauzer she's an indoor dog   most of the time  
and uh we found she's right at a year  
and we finally got her you know house trained and everything uh  
her only problem is trash  
if you do not pick the trash up you know the container   and put it on a table or chair or something she'll knock it over  
i don't care how full she is  
so it's not like she's hungry  
it's just she wants to get into trouble  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i hate that  
yeah  
you shouldn't have left it there  
i just hate that when she does that  
i just oh  
and she knows it's wrong  
you'll walk in the door  
and she'll [cower] and go hide under the table  
so you she knows she does wrong  
but she uh she continues to do it  
so  
uh_huh  
oh is he  
yeah  
i have three cats and a dog  
um  
um we just got the the dog less than a year ago  
so he's still a puppy  
he's a mixed breed  
he's part collie part shepherd and part chow   more collie and shepherd than chow  
the only chow he's got is is his tongue  
yeah  
he's got little spots on them  
was the guinea pig for your   for your child  
really  
oh my my husband's always wanted a chow  
but i'm kind of concerned about um with having cats   and how how they socialize with cats um which is one of the reasons why we got a mixed breed  
um because we thought they would socialize easier  
um my husband had originally wanted an  
and his brother has an  
and he so far he's [bitten] ten people  
so  
and the people that he got the from used to have cats  
and they no longer have any other cats  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i wouldn't want to bring a cat into a full grown dog  
but i i wouldn't feel um hesitant about bringing a puppy in   to adult cats  
i think they would socialize easier  
um how how old is your child  
five  
so you had the dogs before you had the baby  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what color are they  
oh i bet the black one's pretty  
about your baby  
yeah  
i think it's good for kids to grow up around pets   as as long as they don't have any allergies to them or anything  
but i think it really helps them to understand when when they go to other people's houses  
and they have pets  
i see so many times kids just you know  
they mean to animals not really understanding that the animals have feelings  
yeah  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
now  
the the [cockatoos] are those the big ones  
yeah  
yeah  
are they  
yeah  
well we've thought about getting an aquarium   partly partly for the cats  
i think the cats would really enjoy it um  
yeah  
yeah  
of course um  
but so far we just  
and starting up an an aquarium  
we we're thinking about getting a saltwater  
and they're so expensive to start up  
yeah  
yeah  
the the saltwater fish have so much more color  
and they're so much more beautiful  
um the freshwater [tank's] just  
really to me they'll there's  
most of them really aren't that pretty  
you know i really i really don't care much for them  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i wouldn't i wouldn't dare have a a goldfish here because   it would probably be in a small bowl  
and then my cats would knock it over  
i have to be real careful about where i put things  
if the cats will will jump up on things and knock things over all the time  
they're always up where they don't where they're not supposed to be  
that's just like kids you know  
they know that they're not supposed to do it  
but they're going to do it anyway because they know they're not supposed to  
yeah  
yeah  
and until we got the dog um it was real easy to to go to town for three three day weekend or whatever  
and now   it's like a major production   trying to find somebody to take care of the dog while you're gone  
and i  
we knew it  
but we never even thought that about when we got the dog  
we just saw him oh  
he's so cute  
let's take him home  
you know and then the first weekend we had him we had we were in a apartment in a two bedroom apartment  
and my husband went out of town and left me with with the brand new puppy  
and i had to work twelve hours that day  
and so i left the dog locked in the bedroom  
and i put paper all over the floor  
well when i came home i opened the door  
and there were chunks of carpet   [padding] everything   all over the place  
and he had tried to dig his way out from underneath the door  
well i had the carpet fixed  
um i yeah i didn't even tell the apartment manager   who got it  
but that that was my first real experience with with a puppy  
when when we had our family dog growing up i was eleven or twelve i think when we first got him  
and i wasn't really involved in the the paper training   and you know teaching him commands and stuff  
so this was and to me a whole new experience  
only it wasn't like cats at all  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
my cats do that it  
if i through anything away that's any kind of meat or anything   like that  
anything that that they think is good  
they'll get into the trash  
and then it doesn't matter where you put it and where you hide it  
and how how tight you have the lid down on it  
they'll get into it  
i've come home many a days from work to find trash all over the kitchen floor  
and the cat's just looking at me like sorry  
i couldn't help myself  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the problem that we're having with our puppy right now he's not  
he's actually not really a puppy anymore  
he's like sixteen months old  
um but he's still chewing  
um the last thing he chewed up was uh when we  
okay  
well you  
um we got two cats  
yeah  
and uh um  
yeah  
we had cat you know my family had cats when we were growing up the whole time until my mom developed an allergies  
so i mean i'm used i'm used to having cats around  
i like them  
oh see i'm not uh i'm not a dog person at all  
yeah  
probably  
i was allergic to dogs when i was a kid   in fact  
i may still be  
um we  
that um  
i wonder sometimes  
um but we um we house sat for a um my um my wife's boss a couple weeks ago  
and um uh he has a dog and everything  
we were you know we were sitting the dog and everything  
and uh i felt like just miserable all weekend  
and it really didn't [dawn] on me until sunday  
it was like hey maybe you're still allergic to the dog  
it was like oh that could be it  
yeah  
well dogs are real high [maintenances]  
you got to take them for walks  
and you've got to pay a lot you know  
you need to pay attention to cats and everything  
but it's not quite the same thing  
um and um um you know it's it's just nice that cats you know cats yeah you don't have to let them outside you know  
all cats are indoor cats  
so you know they're not you're not worried about them running all around the neighborhood  
and you know they you know they they make their mess in the cat pan which is  
yeah  
it's you know it's a pain to clean  
but you know we used to  
i mean they got great stuff out now for cleaning [cats'] pans  
they didn't  
well when i was you know when i was growing up i had a clean the cat pan all the time  
and i hated it because i had to carry everything upstairs and you know and use this thing to you know scoop the take the stuff out and put it in the toilet and everything  
it was really terrible  
but now they have like this you get these liners   that is garbage bags you know  
and you and you you know the  
yeah  
the cats do it in there  
you pull it and take it out and throw it away  
and that's it  
uh_huh  
same idea  
everyday  
oh okay  
i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you don't have anything right now  
oh except the kid  
huh that's  
uh i don't i don't know because the cats pretty much um  
yeah  
we can leave them for a weekend as long as we put plenty of food out  
and um uh it's not a big deal really  
i mean they're they're happier when we're around  
but you know they they're pretty much okay by themselves  
um and i don't you know we couldn't do that with a dog  
well that's   that's um [pampering] the the petals  
uh_huh  
but they're not that much fun you know  
you can't take them for a walk  
you can't you know  
they they don't they can't [fetch] you know  
they they can't do anything  
so i've never  
i think we had fish when i was a kid  
but i don't  
oh  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
it's like  
i just i don't know  
i i just never understood why what the attraction  
i mean they're you know they're pretty and everything  
but i've just never seen the attraction of having fish  
it's not as much fun  
an eel  
oh now we really get sick  
yeah  
like i remember a friend of mine at work telling me that at his [frat] in college that they had a tank of [piranha]   and uh you know used to drop mice in  
this is not these aren't cats you know  
this is gross  
yep  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
well a cat will do the same trick  
i had a friend in   i had a friend in college who had a um had a pet rat for a while  
um i forget how she got it  
but it was um it was the same kind of a deal  
i think she got it  
i think she was a psych major  
and she got it from the psych department  
whoops  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i mean you know if you get them young and everything before they go kind of nuts  
so  
yeah  
rats are not my favorite animals in the world  
but i could see getting one from birth and everything  
yeah  
yeah  
i i i have friends with hamsters and gerbils  
and they they tell me the same thing  
i just  
again it gets into [vivant] much fun you know what i guess they can be  
i  
okay  
right  
oh people  
i don't oh  
plus i mean the [pooper] [scooper] one new york  
so you know  
yeah uh  
i was living in northern jersey when that law came through remember hearing all about it  
we were wondering if they uh they had any special law for the horses in central park  
of course not  
hit the bags  
oh god i can't   haven't been up there  
last time i was there was fall so probably wasn't that bad  
not this past fall  
but i mean fall   a few years  
i mean it it was in the yeah it was almost like october of eighty five  
i think was the last time i was up up there and at center park  
um i had a friend who went to [colombia]  
and i used to go up and visit her  
um so  
no  
they're just mutts  
yeah  
my wife got them from uh um friend of hers at work and everything you know you know as kittens  
and it was before i mean this was before we even met  
um she's had them for a couple years  
and um you know they're really cute  
they're they're sisters  
one of them is a lot bigger than the other one  
and she pushes the other one away from the food  
apparently i don't know all the details  
but they were born around christmas because one of them is named [tinsel]  
and the other one is named holly  
you know the  
both yeah both females   they're both spayed   um or whatever it is neutered you know um  
and they're they're both declawed at least on the the front claws  
do you have any pets  
two cats  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i like having cats around or pets around in general  
i i favor dogs over cats actually  
but  
oh i'm i'm a dog person  
i had  
i guess it depends on what you had when he were a kid right  
uh_huh  
but not cats  
uh_huh  
the thing i don't like about dogs sometimes is that the house will just [reek]   of the dogs and constantly  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
limited  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds so easy what i did  
yeah  
i [housesat] from cats for a friend of mine which she was finishing up her thesis  
and what we used to do was just put um newspaper on the bottom and then put cat litter  
and then i would just take the whole thing to the garbage can and dump the whole thing  
then i would do it you know everyday or two days so i would clean that pan very very rarely  
and so it wasn't so bad  
two cats and just as easy  
it just never started smelling  
i would put just a little bit of cat litter in there   because if i put a lot one of the cats would have been  
all of her animals that she ever had were adopted  
i that true  
yeah  
yeah  
she's even got she's got one dog now and the two cats  
and her dog there is is basically a reject  
somebody had bought him   and wanted him  
it was her ex boyfriend and you know just was not mature enough to keep the dog didn't realize how much work it was  
and now   she's stuck with it  
and she's just so [kindhearted] that she just takes all the animals  
but i think that for me well my husband just has completely [nixed] the idea of having a dog or a cat  
because that's all there is to it  
so you know  
no  
we don't have anything right now  
oh right  
now we have a kid  
but he was no completely against having a dog or cat  
he said they're much they're as much work as a kid  
and they're harder to get rid of for the weekend  
and  
uh_huh  
that's uh yeah really true  
but like the friends other friends of mine have cats  
they have four of them  
and if they go away they have they hire a pet sitter to come in twice a day and pet them and things like that  
and their cats you know their so used to the attention that if they don't get it they get really upset  
and you know they sort of cause trouble around the house and things like that  
i i tried to have um figured something having  
so i tried to have a goldfish  
and um i killed that one within a very short amount of time  
right  
my brother had fish when i was a kid  
i remember that  
and one of his fish jumped out of the um gosh what do you call it fish tank and fried itself on the radiator behind the dresser  
i'll never forget that  
because i remember my brother   he came home and he counted the fish  
and one of the fish was missing  
and they couldn't find it anyplace  
they couldn't figure out what had happened  
and then they found it fried on the radiator behind  
it was not gross  
i didn't see it  
but um   got them  
trying to remember we had a dog for a while  
and i don't know if we got rid of the dog  
because my brother was allergic to it  
my brother had asthma and some allergies which i think he's outgrown now  
but because of that we didn't have very many pets afterwards  
and then he had fish  
and you  
they're like you say they're not the most exciting pet to have  
well a friend of mine had um an eel  
and then he had a um  
i forget what type of fish it was  
it was one of these fish that it would eat it ate a big other fish and things like that  
there would be sort of moby fish in a tank  
yeah  
and it  
i i couldn't see having fish like that  
i could see some having maybe some of the tropical fish that are really really pretty  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
that would be  
what did they do everyone come around and watch them  
i mean i guess that's fine if you have a mouse problem at your [frat] house   and your things destroyed the mice  
but  
let's see  
i had a pet rat for a while  
and it was a live rat  
and um this woman just offered it to me while i was in in graduate school  
and   she was actually a very fun pet  
uh_huh  
yeah  
mine had been a a a  
how did this work  
a mill rat had been bought  
and the people in the lab one day called in my friend and said you know this rat is acting really strange i think he's sick  
and she said i don't think he's sick i think she's pregnant  
and they had [misclassed] the sex of back there  
and so um she asked me if i want to one of those babies  
and i took the baby  
and i got her when she was you know just this [tiniest] little thing like   half the price of a mouse  
and then she grew to be you know  
i had pictures of her when she would sit on my hand  
and then she grew to be pretty big   you know like a pound or something  
i don't know how much  
and i had her for over two years  
and she was very affectionate  
she would you know crawl on me  
and she would sit like on my neck or my shoulder while i was working   and things like that yeah much more than you would think  
yeah  
and  
yeah  
i sort of weird for me to have had one too  
but there  
it was a convenient little pet to have because it stayed in it's cage  
and you know it was easy   easy to take care of  
and but  
uh_huh  
actually it was more fun than you would think yeah starting from the beginning  
but um  
yeah  
we live also live in the city now actually in manhattan  
and so it's almost impossible to  
it's not fair to a pet to have a pet here   or certainly certainly not a dog  
i mean people do  
but it's not  
oh yeah  
you see all these people yeah these [stately] people and well dressed people out walking their dogs with their plastic bag or their piece of paper for them  
it's really kind of funny  
uh_huh  
right  
no  
they don't  
i should make you  
they have um the bags behind them  
but i think they're actually supposed to   keep them yeah keep them clean  
but oh gosh i can't even walk by central park yeah when summertime  
just the smell is so bad   of the horses  
oh well it's not that long ago  
it was   oh twelve times of the year  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's not too far from were we live  
do you have you said you had two cats  
are they um just what you call it are they breed cats or anything  
or are they just  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they're both females  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
this is really ironic that this would i would get this subject today because just yesterday our dog ran away  
and it's just been tearing me up all day  
because we have just been looking all over for him  
we've been to the pound  
we've been to the humane society  
we've been to the adoption center  
we've just been all over the neighborhood  
we've been calling neighbors  
so this is just really strange  
no  
this is the first time  
um he's gotten out before  
but he's always stayed right here   you know  
he's never gone away  
and so this is just really strange you know because  
um he's part golden lab and part uh let's see [alaskan] no not [alaskan]  
i always forget  
uh australian shepherd  
and   yeah  
he's pretty big  
that's why it really surprises me you know that he hasn't come back because like i said he's never gone away like this before  
and i would think you know he might i mean he might could get hurt by a car or something  
i don't know that he could really get killed that easily because he is so big  
you know but i don't know  
thanks  
i do too  
oh about two years  
so he's  
yeah  
it's really  
gosh anyway  
that isn't that funny how we do  
i mean we just really  
yeah  
well they're companions  
well do you have any  
um  
how do they get along together  
um  
oh yeah  
that's what are so neat about animals  
i mean they are you know like i said they're they're really companions you know  
and they're friends   you know  
i mean they you can love them all you want  
and they love you right back  
and they don't  
no  
i know  
it's just so neat you know  
it's  
that's  
i don't know  
this is just so hard  
it's just it's like i said we've had him for two years  
and he's never  
i mean he's he's gotten out  
but he's always been right there  
he's never been gone for at all  
you know he's just always been right there when he gets out  
you know it's the first time he's ever been gone like this  
uh i i just knew today uh you know that we looked at the pound and that we just went all over the place  
and i knew we were going to find him you know  
and when we didn't it was like oh no  
so i don't know  
yeah  
we keep you know  
they told us like at the humane society and the adoption center you know don't give up hope you know  
and then   well not yet  
we were talking about that tonight since you know he we just he just got out yesterday  
we were just talking about that whether  
we we were trying to find some pictures of him recently  
we've got so many when he was a puppy  
you know but we just don't have a whole lot  
we have him on film you know on the video camera  
you know but you can't put that on the  
you know so   so i don't know  
i we will probably will put some things up some posters and stuff up  
and hopefully that will help you know maybe around the neighborhood  
but we know a lot of people that live in this neighborhood  
so that helps too you know if they can keep  
yeah  
so  
i think that if somebody else picks him up  
i think that uh if he gets out he'll come back  
you know i really do because he knows exactly where he lives  
so  
i know  
it's just like it's it's just so ironic that this would happen  
and i would get this this kind of a call  
i know  
it's very strange  
but  
well that's good  
that's one thing about cats though  
they're so small  
and you know they can get hurt a lot easier  
you know they can get hurt a lot easier   you know  
so that would make you really   tend to worry about them you know if they're not right there  
is that right  
huh  
that's really  
i i guess i really don't know cats that well because my mother never liked them  
so i never had them growing up  
so you know i never really had them around me you know  
so i've never owned one you know since i  
huh  
huh  
yeah  
that's true  
i i like the way they come up  
and they'll they'll put their head underneath your hand you know  
that  
and uh most dogs do that  
i mean  
i don't know any that really don't  
i mean you know they know exactly how to get that attention you know  
they just you know come up  
and they put your you know  
or they'll rub their their head against you you know  
well no  
well well he's outside during the day  
and then we get home at night we do bring him in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the backyard it's really big too for him to run in and stuff  
that's why we couldn't understand why he would want to get out   you know because he's had all this room to run in  
and but  
he dug a hole under the fence  
well see he did he did it a couple weeks ago dug a hole  
and you know we we filled it back up   put him back in there  
he did it again  
so we chained him up  
you know but we really didn't want to keep him chained up because you know we feel like that's just too restricting for him  
so uh we got we we put dirt in the hole and then put some chicken wire around it you know so that he couldn't get out  
well he kind of ripped through the chicken wire  
so i can't  
i i i just have not  
i don't understand you know because it's like he's got a good home you know  
he's got  
i mean we have two kids you know that just love him a lot  
you know it's like we can't understand why he kept wanting to get out you know  
we just couldn't  
yeah  
i guess that's  
yeah  
i guess that's probably true  
i don't think it's anything we did  
least i hope not  
no  
i i know  
i mean he's always you know he really does have a good home  
i think that's what really bothers me the most about it  
you know it's like  
well i don't know if it's quite hit him hit them  
i have two girls  
and they they just been real uh  
i don't know  
at first you know they seemed to be upset  
but now it's like uh well if he doesn't come home can we get another dog  
it's like wait a minute you know  
poor buddy you know  
i said he's only been gone a day  
and you already want to replace him  
buddy  
uh_huh  
is that right  
oh  
that's funny  
yeah  
oh  
i didn't know that  
i had i had no idea  
i did not know that  
oh no  
oh i bet  
oh i guess so  
have you lost him before  
uh_huh  
what kind of a dog is he  
yeah  
oh  
boy he's a big one  
yeah  
oh well i hope he comes back  
that's too bad  
how long have you had him  
oh that's tough  
yeah  
you get very attached to animals don't you  
yeah  
well you know they're always there for you  
and they don't talk back to you  
and uh it's kind of pleasant  
yeah  
sure  
sure  
yes  
we have a dog a little white [lhasa]  
and her name is angel  
and we have a cat who a white cat he's he's just a tabby just a  
and his name is [dominique]  
we call him [neek]  
but  
pretty good  
uh we've we had the the dog first  
and uh she's kind of a [wimp]  
and   and the cat kind of rules  
but uh she likes him all right  
he we had another cat about two years ago  
it got leukemia [feline] leukemia   so we had to have it put to sleep  
and uh then we got this new cat  
so uh i have two children  
and they really enjoy the animals  
and then my mother who's very elderly lives with us  
and she's really good friends with the dog  
they're very   good buddies  
that's right  
that's right  
they don't care what you look like   or what you act like  
they just love you [unconditionally]  
it's wonderful  
oh i know it has to be  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that's really too bad  
that's awful well  
well i i'll i hope you'll find him  
you most likely will  
well have you put any posters up or anything like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
you sure can't  
oh dear  
well that's good  
they can keep their eyes open  
yeah  
that will help  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
he will  
i bet he does  
i know that it's hard on you  
i know that i'd be worried too  
yeah  
isn't it though  
that's  
you know i know sometimes our cat will will stay out all night  
and when he's not right at the door in the morning i really worry that something's happened to him that somebody he's got in a fight or you know somebody's hit him  
and and uh if he doesn't come by mid morning then i really get scared  
but he's always come back eventually  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they can  
yeah  
yeah  
well but he's a real feisty guy  
he fights with other cats in the neighborhood because he doesn't want them on our property  
he's  
cats are really almost more territorial than than dogs are  
they just really do not want other animals on their property  
they're very very  
he he just  
any cat that comes near and even a dog he won't he won't jump at them or anything  
but he'll sit  
and he'll watch  
and i think maybe he would if it came real close  
but he's very protective of our property  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well they're really a lot different than dogs because they're not they're very independent  
and they're very he's very affectionate when he wants to be  
but if you want him to be and he doesn't want to be he'll just he'll you know either scratch you or run away  
but when he wants to be uh he's really affectionate  
he likes to lay next to you and have you scratch his head and and and [snuggle] up to you  
and but if he's not in the mood you'd better stay away from him  
but dogs seem to be always in the mood  
they're always you know right there and like like you to pet them and loving  
yeah  
yeah oh  
yeah  
they do  
they sure do  
yeah  
now do you keep him indoors most of the time other than to go  
you have a fenced yard or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well how did he get out  
oh boy  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know that animals are like that  
they like to roam and investigate   and see what's going on  
no  
no  
i'm sure that yeah  
yeah  
how are your kids handling it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds like kids  
oh  
what's his name  
did you call  
buddy  
we that's was our cat's name that that that died  
oh yeah  
we named him uh we named him buddy after uh buddy bell uh the ranger baseball player that used to be here  
and we used to  
we were really into that when we got him going to the ranger games  
and we named him buddy [beaner] for some reason  
but buddy after buddy bell  
so  
but he was he was a good cat too  
we miss him a lot  
and i i feel real guilty because we had him like for six years  
and one year i forgot to get him his leukemia booster  
and he got it  
and i just felt so bad  
i it's real contagious  
and it's  
and the vet said it runs rampant in this area  
and if they don't have their booster any kind of [saliva] or anything from another cat if they get in a fight it automatically like  
they get it if the other cat has it  
so  
oh  
oh  
it was  
i just felt terrible  
i knew something was wrong with him because his appetite was  
he was just getting real skinny  
well uh i think she's mostly german shepherd  
uh she was uh uh  
a person lives across the street from me uh brought her home from work because a [coworker] of hers uh had this dog appear on its front [doorstep]  
somebody somebody abandoned her  
and   she's only about oh between six and eight six to eight weeks old  
and   uh uh i can't understand why anyone would abandon this dog though  
she's i mean she's that this young  
and she's almost [housebroken]  
i mean she actually asks to go out  
and uh yeah  
i was amazed  
really good temperament and very [playful] and affectionate good personality  
i don't know  
i can't imagine what uh would have been wrong with this dog  
so  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i had a uh  
last year i had i had another german shepherd  
now this one was purebred  
and uh he when he was about seven months old got a [gastrointestinal] virus and was just about on [death's] door  
but uh managed to get him to a veterinarian in time  
and uh and on huge doses of antibiotics   and he actually got over it with seven hundred dollars in vet bills  
um but he had actually was able to get him over that  
and then he was gaining weight again was just getting healthy  
and uh he put on about fifteen to twenty pounds after the thing  
and then he got hit by a cadillac  
so i couldn't believe it  
that was that was really hard  
and that was even harder for  
i was on a business trip at the time  
and the dog was being house sit or dog sit whatever by some friends of mine down the street  
so they just felt absolutely awful  
and i felt felt probably worse for them than than for me  
because oh gosh they the uh this [fellow's] wife who was uh watching the dog she i think she loved that dog more than i did  
and uh   she was really attached to it  
but uh it's unfortunate  
but now i've got another one  
so  
uh see he it it was just over a year  
uh it was in march of last year  
so uh yeah  
it'd been didn't didn't have one for a whole year  
yeah  
right  
my dad's like that  
he uh he had a beagle that he loved  
and uh when that beagle passed away uh he didn't want he wasn't going to have another dog  
there's no way  
no  
how and then uh the he the beagle died in i guess about october  
and by christmas time we went down to the pound and got him uh i or i humane society and got uh got another one a stray  
and she she turned out to be a great dog  
and we had her for six years until she just passed away recently  
and again dad went through the whole thing  
but   mom went an  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
well hopefully this one here cocoa will live a full life  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's not too bad  
golly the golden [retriever's] are good dogs too  
they're kind of like get that permanent smile to them  
they're always always happy  
i don't think i've ever seen them not look happy  
yeah  
right  
this this friend of mine has well  
it's the same guy that was watching uh my german shepherd when he got hit  
but uh went fishing with him on friday and took  
he's got a full a pure bred golden retriever  
and then i had uh the puppy a little tiny puppy  
and we went and took the two dogs up fishing  
and this  
they just they had a ball [romping] around  
and you know you can't get a golden retriever near water without it jumping in  
and uh this golden retriever jumped in the the really fast moving uh river current  
and uh  
well no  
actually he had no trouble at all  
he first jumped in  
and i  
he's he's just about a year old himself and never had really  
i don't think he'd [swum] before  
but he jumped in in the the river  
well the puppy jumped in the into some of the pools but not into the  
i was careful to keep her away from the   the fast moving water  
because if she fell in then i'd of been had to go in after her  
and up here the waters probably about forty degrees right now  
and i would not have been fun trying to [retrieve] her  
but uh this dog dennis jumped in and got this look on his face like what do i do now as he's floating down the river then finally discovered that he could swim and uh actually [paddled] up against the current and uh made it back to the shore and climbed up  
and then   he he jumped in again  
and he was swimming for quite a bit all afternoon  
he loved it  
cocoa didn't think too much of it though  
she jumped in and then started screaming and made me pull her back out  
i pulled her out and uh then had to wrap her up in a sweatshirt because she was [shivering] so bad  
and so but uh she got over it  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've i live right across the street from a a big lake here um  
it's on [oneida] lake  
and i'm wondering if uh if she'll want to go out there and go swimming next year  
i mean i've got  
the yards all fenced in  
so she doesn't run loose  
but uh   she could go in sometime when if i'm watching her  
so  
oh really  
yeah  
no  
no  
oh really  
oh okay  
my my dog last german shepherd it was a real chore trying to give him a bath too  
and that was the thing i couldn't figure out  
because he would go in the lake  
it wasn't like he didn't  

normally i mean he didn't seem to have a problem with getting wet  
but if you wanted to get him wet forget it  
yeah  
right  
right  
obstinate  
obstinate  
uh_huh  
i'll have to check it out  
i saw the the uh previews for it and all  
and it did look like it'd be a good movie  
but  
uh really haven't had a whole lot of time to get out to see the movies lately  
but i got to do more more fun things  
yeah  
yeah  
well i'm uh i'm a second lieutenant in the air force  
and so i travel a lot  
and yeah  
i'm a engineer at uh at the laboratory [rolm] laboratory [griffis] air force base up here  
so  
that's how i got into uh into the switchboard project and all that  
so  
but it's nice having a dog here uh  
the  
uh  
what's the what's the word i'm looking for uh lots of affection no   unconditional affection from the from the dog  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
no  
yeah  
well it's been nice talking to you  
we seem to be [degenerating] here  
so  
okay  
what kind of puppy you got  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh  
wow  
that's great  
yeah  
well i i have a dog that god gave us too  
yeah  
she just appeared  
yeah  
my husband calls her street dog  
but we've had her now for about three years  
and i just  
you get so attached to them  
uh_huh  
um  
wow  
uh_huh  
oh no  
oh gee  
uh_huh  
oh i bet  
oh gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
how long has it been since the first one  
uh yeah  
yeah  
well i had i had a german shepherd before this one  
and when she died it just it just absolutely destroyed me  
i mean i was just you know  
i couldn't even talk about it for months  
and so i decided well that's it  
i'm not going to do this anymore  
and then god gave me this dog  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
well you just do  
you can't help  
it's like it's like a kid  
yeah  
well when uh  
my my [doggie] uh that we have now uh she's she's mostly golden retriever  
the vet called her uh a golden mix  
like who knows you know  
but she's uh she's that sort of strawberry blonde [reddish] color you know  
and uh and her nose is that pink you know  
she doesn't have a brown nose  
and her she's sort of [unicolor] you know   eyes are the same color and everything  
so i named her [rosebud]  
and uh a friend of mine said she that she  
this friend of mine grew up on a farm and said that she had uh a pet cow named [rosebud]  
and she said there's a lot of longevity in that name  
said my cow lived seventeen years  
yeah  
right  
and she's so easy going and so sociable  
you know she loves everybody  
and little kids can just you know [maul] all over her  
and she just you know thinks it's great  
uh_huh  
getting in  
yeah  
oh no  
really  
did puppy go to  
oh that's good  
yeah  
ugh  
ugh  
yeah  
yeah  
well the german shepherd that i had before  
we we had a little pool  
and uh she was she did not want any part of swimming  
but she liked to to get in the pool on the first step  
she'd just get on the first step and lay down   you know in the summertime when it's really really hot  
and she'd just lay there on that step and just you know cool off  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well the one that we had just didn't want any part of that  
yeah  
and she  
oh baths  
oh gee she hated baths worse than anything  
it was it was just really a fight to you know get her clean  
have you seen uh [canine]   the movie oh  
you've got to see it especially since you have a german  
it is so cute  
yeah  
and uh an part of the the movie is where he's trying to clean this dog up  
and it's it's just hysterical  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's how [cleo] you know  
she'd lay on her step  
but that was that was the only time she wanted to get wet  
and she didn't want you getting her wet  
yeah  
but you really need to see that movie  
i i we bought the movie  
and i i don't know how many times i've seen it  
and it came on t v the other night  
and i was watching it again  
and my husband heard me laughing  
and he said i can't believe that you're still getting such a kick out of that movie  
it is great  
yeah  
well we always wait until we can rent them you know  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
there's just  
right  
that's it  
really  
not critical at all  
yeah  
they're really wonderful  


no  
i don't  
an  
my kids would love a pet  
i had a pet when i was a girl  
i had a cocker spaniel  
and i think one thing about pets is they're a lot of company  
you can you can tell them anything  
and they won't tell anybody  
right  
as a matter of fact i was thinking that same thing unconditional love  
they just give it   and don't expect too much  
anyway do you have a pet  
oh  
oh i'm so sorry  
but that's good that you're going to get another one  
i know some of my friends who have pets uh  
and they just are really you know  
the ones that have dogs are very uh protective of them  
and i think that's one reason they have them especially older people that i know that have pets  
but they just um really take care of them or uh are protective of them  
yeah  
an  
and my my kids  
um they really want a dog badly  
and they've been looking and looking  
and want you know  
they'd take anything i think  
but um i don't know do you like  
i guess your cat was an indoor cat  
it kind of traveled around  
travel  
yeah  
when i had a cocker spaniel it it was an outdoor dog  
and uh i think i liked that better  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
that's true  
take them for walks  
right  
yeah  
i see all the people on on sunday going for a walk with their dogs  
and and i i'm kind of skeptical with my son getting a dog  
i'm like i know it will be fun the first week maybe  
and then mom gets to take care of it or something  
so i  
oh that's exciting  
yeah  
yeah  
i think it's really important to that that if you get a pet that they're either spayed or neutered so that you know we're not just going on with this pet population and having to   just get rid of them  
that that kind of [gripes] on me some  
but but i don't know  
more and more people are  
right  
right  
but uh  
i think that's really true  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
i think our community is a lot more conscious now though too  
and and that's good too  
well i think that's all i have to say  
okay  
have a good night  
all right  
bye bye  
so have you got a pet  
yeah  
that's right  
that's like unconditional affection  
yeah  
i had a cat  
i've had several cats  
my pet uh was hit by a car new year's eve  
but uh  
i'm going to get another one as soon as i get back in town  
i'm going out of town this weekend  
when i get back i'm going to find a cat  
so  
yeah  

i work and go to school  
and it's kind of nice  

you come home your your [pet's] there for you and wants a little food a little attention  
and that's  
it's kind of fun  
yeah  
no  
it was an kind of indoor outdoor  
it   it was  
well yeah  
i don't i don't care for the smell of the litter box  
so my cat was trained to go outside  
other than that it was inside when it wanted to be it was outside when  
yeah  
i i think you know  
i like dogs  
but i think that uh  
i'm  
kind of like big big dogs  
and you have to have room for them  
and dogs take a lot of a lot more care than cats do  
cats are pretty independent you know  
you feed them  
and they keep themselves clean  
and if you   if you raise them right you know you don't have to worry about the litter box thing where with dogs you really do have to let them out and take them for walks and   things like that  
yeah  
yeah  
i got to take care of a friend of mine's dog  
he's just got a puppy  
and he was out of town last weekend  
and of course the dog is not trained for anything yet  
so it was go over there and clean up after the dog  
and   that's that's a major chore you know if you don't if you don't keep up with it  
and uh kids kind of  
they want the they want the fun part and not the not the work  
yeah  
well if you're if you're going to have a pet   and not have it neutered or spayed you need to be willing to you know deal with the consequences   take care of the [offspring]  
and and i think   you know  
when i was growing up we had cats  
and you know just seeing the cats you know the the miracle of birth you know put that in quotes is that's a that's a neat thing to to experience as a kid and understand  
and and it was a real positive thing  
but on the other hand you don't want to you'd be one of these people that dumps the kittens off on the side of the road you know  
they're they're getting old now  
and it's time to get rid of them  
so  
yeah  
okay  
well   good talking to you  
bye  
all right uh  
you have pets i understand a couple of them  
what are they  
pets get like that don't they  
they think they own you  
okay  
these are cats  
i remember one time uh i used to get a [chuckle] out of out of [pogo]  
that dates me quite a bit  
you probably don't know  
yeah  
he  
when [beauregard] was talking he was the dog remember  
and he used to say pets can be most as much trouble as as kids if they work at it a little bit and even more when they work at it a little bit  
and i think that's true  

oh uh_huh  
just good company huh that's neat  
you know it's funny how pets get to be so uh  
they really you really do [mourn] them after when things happen  
now we don't actually have a pet right now  
but uh but we have had some  
and and i i  
it's always hard for me to believe how close i've gotten to them  
we had a little uh uh-oh dog  
it was a little uh  
i got it so it wouldn't wouldn't shed   one of these french poodle a little french poodle  
yeah  
and uh he used to i used to come down stairs in the morning to feed him you know  
and i'd let him up out of the basement where he was sleeping  
and he would just dance around the floor  
and i just got  
and we only had him about three or four weeks before he was hit by a car  
but i cannot believe the whole family just   he just got in to us so quickly  
i could not believe it  
i i have to tell you about our most interesting pet though  
uh we had an iguana living with us for about uh   about two years two and a half years i guess  
it was about uh-oh three feet long about three feet long  
it was a beautiful animal  
name was clyde  
clyde the iguana  
and uh my son dan went to uh to uh hawaii for the summer  
and when he came home uh he didn't bring the iguana with him  
but for some reason or other he had a thing for them  
i don't know whether he'd  
i think there was one in the school uh [zoology] department you know   or biology department one or the other anyway uh  
and anyway he just he went and found this guy in in dallas somewhere who had picked up one in i guess in in mexico  
i don't know where  
but anyway he brought this home  
and i looked at him  
and i said you've got to be kidding   i'm not going to live with a [lizard]  
but you know i visualize that animal racing about  
and you know like you think of lizards doing but they don't do that  
they're very much like uh  
well the thing about them is that they hold so still you don't notice that they're there  
and then they move and about scares you to death sometimes  
no  
he had full run of the house  
he just loved to sit on the back of my dryer where the air the heat came up out of the dryer you know  
it was he was really a neat pet  
and though i you know  
he'd  
when we'd have family home evening and everybody would sit in the living room and the fire would be burning he'd walk across my feet sometimes  
and it it was a long time before i could really pet him  
and but i fed him  
and he he knew how to get me to feed him  
he'd come out to the kitchen   just kind of look at me until i went and got him something out of the refrigerator  
but he was really a neat animal  
he he'd lay in [dan's] lap you know  
and just uh when he'd pet him he'd just stretch  
and you know you could see him just enjoying it like a cat does  
it was kind of interesting  
but he did a lot of interesting things  
and uh dan carried him around  
and he liked to ride on the back of his up on his head you know with his tail wrapped around his arm so he wouldn't fall off an and scare everybody to death  
and   kids loved him  
kids just loved him  
kids just came from all over to come and see clyde and visit with him  
and and he [tolerated] them you know  
he'd even tolerate him petting though  
he didn't like them too well at first  
but he he got tame you know  
so that uh people could go in there  
and dan was a drummer  
and he didn't he the only thing he didn't like very well was the [drumming]  
when dan would drum he'd sit there and [scrunch] up you know  
like he was trying to   protect himself  
and then he'd leave the room  
oh yeah  
they really are they're interesting  
well they take on human characteristics like   uh our other animal  
the next year our our son ken went to hawaii  
and well while dan was in hawaii ken decided he wanted a dog  
and he and he looked around a long while  
and he found a norwegian [elkhound]  
and he just brought this norwegian [elkhound] an   home  
and he was so funny  
uh for a while they built a a run for him out to the side of the house you know  
he'd been on the patio  
but they put the run out there  
and he didn't like this run because there were no people that came by  
and sometimes he would just make a [racket] until you came and got him  
and one night we'd forgotten to put water out for him  
and and hal and i were in bed  
and all of a sudden there was all this noise out to the side the house  
and and he'd pick up his dish and throw it in the air   and then bark and march around you know  
and then he'd pick up his dish again and throw it in the air until we came out and gave him some water  
did what  
no  
he didn't eat flies  
no  
they eat uh they eat greens  
uh we fed him the outside leaves of lettuce you know  
i'd get lettuce at the store  
and he'd eat the outside leaves  
and then in the summertime you could put him out  
and he'd eat outside except you had to keep him away from the garden because he liked to eat the little peas as fast as they came up you know  
it was really it was s really a of things that were fresh [sprigs] you know  
he liked that  
well yeah  
when uh when dan went up to college up at [ricksun] idaho he took him with him  
and uh everybody was used to him  
and they just loved him and what not  
and this his roommate put him out one day  
and dan didn't know it  
and it got dark  
and he didn't get him in again  
and they searched and searched and searched for him  
but uh uh it got too cold up there  
and he he died in a tree  
they found him the next day in a tree  
but  
so you you have to be pretty tender with them  
we had a he had his own heat [lamp] and uh and uh hot pad he laid on you know  
that was another funny thing  
he had a hot pad  
and it it burned up one time  
and boy it was that was funny too watching him kind of burned up  
but anyway  
an we got him a new one  
he had a blue one before  
and when we got him a new one it was brown  
and he wouldn't lay on it until we changed the covers  
no  
he wouldn't lay on it  
so they really are they really pick up things  
he was he was a clean animal uh  
we he went to the bathroom in the bathroom  
well we put some papers on the floor   underneath the john  
and he went there to go to the bathroom  
you had to be sure you left the doors open you know  
he didn't like to go anywhere else  
he'd he'd scratch and do all kinds of things to get you to open the door if you happened to close it on him or something you know  
but   but even when he went when he had an accident or something uh  
if you just let it dry it dries kind of like uh  
especially when he was inside and just eating lettuce it dried up a little bit like [ashes]  
and you could just vacuum it up  
in the winter time there was no smell at all no odor at all to it  
and in the summertime when he was outside and eating outside the smell was a little bit like a cat you know  
but uh  
yeah  
he is he was a really interesting animal  
i i just uh we just really  
and you know to this day i still miss him  
and that's been years ago  
yeah  
he was just  
yeah  
yeah  
i think i guess so  
but it's it was interesting  
well what do your cats do besides sitting and [purring] and letting you pet them  
yeah  
oh and you just kind of took them over huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a little bit easier to have cats in this kind of country though isn't it  
uh   i think  
yeah  
that could be could be  
oh pretty ones  
newhart  
yeah  

i i   well i have uh these  
well i don't know if they consider themselves animals anymore  
they actually you know sort of take over the place  
an and we're kind of their pets  
don't they really  
they own the place  
and naturally these are cats  
so  
oh [pogo]  
sure  
uh_huh  
i agree  

i don't know  
i i i think that um  
my husband and i are in such a situation that uh um i'm kind of um not able to do a lot  
i'm i'm kind of in a wheelchair  
i mean i kind of am  
but uh  
yeah  
i've got these two cats that hang around with me all day  
and i don't what i'd do without them  
it is  
and  

okay  
oh my  
oh really  
oh  
oh  
that  
yeah  
that's  
okay  
oh uh by choice  
clyde the iguana  
uh_huh  
yuck  
did you have him in a cage  
oh no  
oh no  
oh no  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh  
oh no  
i mean you don't argue with an iguana do you  
oh no  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
was the [drumming]  
and cover his ears  
isn't that funny the way we put you know um human characteristics on an animal like that  
an an it's  
i guess they do  
oh  
he used a classic [illusion]  
i forgot to ask you did the iguana catch flies for you  
did the iguana catch flies for you  
he didn't eat flies  
oh  
oh  
i bet  
well can we ask you whatever happened to clyde  
oh  
oh oh my  
uh  
oh really  
because that was like what he was used to  
how did he do that  
okay  
oh no  
oh my goodness  
oh yeah  
but that that's incredible  
it's a different little things  
oh that's  
well see i guess it's because you lived with you know him an   and [overcame] some fears to get used to him  
yeah  

oh my goodness these guys they   well actually they're my husband's pets  
well well actually it's like he's the cat person you know  
and i've i was always kind of [nondescript] in that category because i always liked dogs  
and they've kind of taken over  
and and uh you know  
maybe it is  
i  
they're so independent  
well i'm glad we have two of them otherwise i think they get neurotic if there just one of them  
they get real crazy  
but there brother and sister from the same litter  
they look totally different  
they are they are well they are siamese cats  
but one is one is uh um  
they're both registered you know  
one's a seal point  
she's the little girl  
and then uh newhart is the uh the   the  
he is something  
he's like a dog  
he really he just he just wants his belly [scratched]  
and that's it you know  
and he's just the [warmest] thing in the wintertime  
he just sits on your lap sits on your lap  
but they're like seven  
do you have any pets now  
joey  
the dog is joey  
the cat is  
oh my goodness  
oh my  
i beg your pardon  
oh  
well did you all catch it  
or uh  
uh_huh  
no  
did  
no  
did you catch the fish  
uh_huh  
and it's all alone in that aquarium  
well at the present time i have two dogs  
an english [setter] you know  
that's the white dog with the feathers  
and it has   uh yellow spots on it which they call i think uh liver spots  
and that's a male  
and i have a wonderful female lab black lab  
quite a long time uh probably five or six years  
and unfortunately the black lab that's a female it it's it's the most wonderful animal we've ever had  
an  
when she was about three years old we noticed that she was having uh problems [limping] and so forth  
and   she has hip dysplasia  
and it's in that breed  
but now i think there are tests that can be [conducted] uh to tell whether or not the puppies have the have it  
but i think  
i don't know  
apparently they've been so in well i don't know [inbred] or what  
but  
well  
i'm not sure that's the situation  
but it um  
for those dogs that are registered  
and if if you should have one uh that also has hip dysplasia you cannot breed it uh  
uh_huh  
but she's wonderful  
um like  
what are the   what are the symptoms  
uh_huh  
yes  
um well uh i have had just wonderful luck with this lab uh  
when  
uh let's see winter before last we would bring her in and uh when it was cold  
and she wouldn't  
i you know  
the next morning you want to take them out  
and she wouldn't  
i couldn't get her up without picking her up and which it was pretty hard to do at eighty pounds  
um until  
if i allowed her to not get up on her own it'd be two o'clock in the afternoon  
anyway i uh met my son's uh college roommate is a vet  
and he said um let's give her some race horse shots  
and you know in  
i'm i'm kind of glad to be able to tell people about this but you because you all the time you know run into people with problems  
anyway that's when we lived in oklahoma  
and uh so he gave this dog a series of  
it's  
they give it to race horses uh to get rid of uh [cartilage]  
and it's called  
anyway it's a series of six shots once a week  
and then i noticed after two shots she was  
well i could have  
but i can't give a shot  
i took her from enid oklahoma to oklahoma city every week for six weeks  
and uh after the the second shot she was significantly better  
then i didn't notice any improvement till the after the sixth one  
and ever since  
and he said uh a booster uh every year or two   i mean maybe every six months or or something like that  
and when i notice in the winter when it's worse you know it's cold weather and so forth then i have uh gotten a booster for her  
but not many people in this part of the country know anything about  
i've had to get it from oklahoma  
they've heard about it  
but they've really never used it  
so dogs that get down in the hips  
like i think german shepherds do it and probably large dogs  
and uh it's just wonderful  
uh  
um um well we're living now in an area where we we we're in the woods  
and we take walks  
i just don't let them   uh uh go away from me  
but we take walks through the woods twice a day  
and uh i can over do it on her  
but anyway at least she can go  
and she's not [limping] along and all that  
tell me about your cat  
and is um stripper an inside cat or outside  
uh_huh  
yes  
well of course  
that's nice  
they they  
well he just can  
well he has been trained  
and you've you've kept it up haven't you  
yeah  
it is wonderful  
i i have some neighbors across the field  
and um they  
when we first moved here uh when the dogs and i didn't  
we have a very nice kennel and everything  
but but since i i didn't want to  
i i just wanted to let them be able to be free for a while  
so i kept watch and never let them get away  
but now every couple weeks they one would slip away  
and my neighbor said to me oh i noticed those dogs dogs are so well trained  
anytime they hear your voice they come  
so that made me very proud  
well have we been talking five minutes  
i'm not either  
but  
yeah  
well um so it sounds like you keep your pets for pleasure  
yes  
oh really  
uh_huh  
no  
they don't  
no  
i i [glanced] at the clock when um we started  
and i think it's been probably about five and a half minutes or something  
but one day i was talking to a lady about gardening  
and i'm i love gardening  
and she did too  
an and   after after about twelve minutes or something   the recording came on and said that was the end of the tape  
uh_huh  
but it's been so much fun too uh talk  
well my best friend in [virginia's] daughter is a part of this project in texas  
and so she knew that i had the time and would be would enjoy it  
um so  
but i have a hard time getting anybody because i guess  
do you work  
yeah  
and probably just got home  
so um during the day i  
i  
and i understand also they want men  
yeah  
my husband does  
yes  
yes  
i think so too  
and i haven't helped them out on the on men particularly  
but my husband had been in fact he's been probably has made a few more calls than i have because i tend to not make them around dinner time  
i try to you know make them do during the day  
but nobody's home  
well good  
yeah  
it so much fun to talk to you  
you too  
bye  
oh i sure do  
i have a cat and a dog named joey  
uh_huh  
he's the little boy [pomeranian]  
and we just got a new addition to the family so to speak  
we also have a fish  
it's a mud dog  
it's a mud dog  
it's uh   a cross between a catfish and uh i don't know what a [salamander]  
uh_huh  
we have a cat stripper  
oh the mud dog  
uh we had a friend give it to us  
yeah  
we'd like to get him a friend  
but um uh we haven't found one yet  
so how about you  
do you have any pets  
oh really  
what kind  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how long have you had them  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh is that right  
huh  
i had no idea  
i hadn't didn't even know that  
um our dog joey has uh a back problem  
uh he he's got a bad back  
but he's seven uh  
i guess he's almost eight years old  
um he just uh  
he doesn't  
he uh he rolls  
he doesn't like to roll over  
um  
you just  
when you touch him a certain way on the back  
but otherwise he can jump uh you know just as long as he doesn't bend a certain way  
uh_huh  
i bet  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
do you have to give those  
oh i  
believe me i understand  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've never heard anything about it either  
uh_huh  
does he get  
is he an inside dog also  
or does he just run out in the backyard  
is he fenced in  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh that's nice  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh stripper well he started out being a little [orphan]  
and we we took him in  
and uh he's about two years old now  
and he loves his treats  
uh both uh joey and uh stripper get treats  
and uh let's see  
oh well he's outside  
and uh   he's got a way to get in  
he's got free access of a window we like to keep open  
so he gets to go in and out whenever he wants to  
joey on the other hand is a little different  
he has to go out whenever uh we ask him  
and when he when we ask him he uh he barks  
he'll either bark for food or he'll bark to go out  
and he'll tell you which one he wants  
he's been through obedience school  
oh definitely  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i'm not for sure  
i think maybe we have  
but  
oh definitely  
have you ever done this before  
oh okay um  
i haven't ever called  
i've put in the paper work i just never made the call  
yeah  
so i didn't know if they stop you when the time is up  
or  
uh_huh  
oh well at least you know you did your part  
how did you get into this  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
that's true  
i mean i  
um yes  
i do  
uh_huh  
right  
i was going to tell you the same thing  
they're really looking for a lot more men to participate  
does he  
yeah  
i need to  
i've got some applications  
i need to hand them out  
but uh this is a great project that they're working on  
and it's really going to lead the way uh for a lot of um applications and and development in the voice area  
uh_huh  
well this is the perfect time for me  
well maybe i'll get you next time  
all right  
have a good one  
bye  
okay  
do you have any pets  
oh  
oh  
instead of being carried  
yeah  
really  
uh_huh  
huh  
yes  
i've seen those  
they're cute  
uh_huh  
oh she's about four  
she's not completely pure  
we got her from the uh humane society when she was a puppy  
she looks like a  
she looks just like a golden retriever  
but she's a little bit smaller  
she's like fifty five pounds  
is it  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh huh  
yeah  
she's perfect  
well she's got a brown nose instead of black too  
which makes her i guess [unshowable]   even if she had papers which she doesn't  
but but we love her anyway  
she's just a lot of company to us  
we didn't  
we haven't had any kids  
and we're expecting a baby this summer  
but up until then she's been our substitute kid  
and she was a lot of fun  
right  
oh  
i bet it had a pretty coat too  
huh_uh   yeah  
yeah  
right  
oh  
yeah  
we have some friends with a brother and sister golden retriever  
and those dogs have been having [seizures]  
and i wonder since both of them are having them if it's some kind of breeding   problem  
huh_uh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
they did  
i i had never really had a golden retriever before  
we were going to get a shepherd and something mixed because my husband's family had had shepherds  
and all the other  
we looked at some of the shepherd mixes and the puppies weren't very uh social and stuff  
and we went to a pen of a little bit bigger dogs  
and all the others were standing there barking and jumping up and down  
and one dog would stand there [wagging] her tail and smiling  
and that   was mine  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
huh  
wow  
huh  
yes  
i've had i have had a number of them in my lifetime  
and i've  
i am a golden retriever fan  
but i had to replace it with something that the kids could carry  
yes  
yes  
yes  
well they were  
they really wanted something teeny tiny  
and i uh really wanted that [retriever's] disposition   uh the ultimate to tolerant trainable disposition  
so i called four or five dog [trainers] because i don't like the little dogs  
and and i asked them you know these are the ages of the kids what do i get  
and they all said golden retriever  
and i said okay   put it under twenty pounds  
and the only thing that they could come up with was a bichon [frize] which is a  
do you know what that is  
they're cute  
they look like an air headed let me tell you  
they're calm they're not yuppie they're trainable they're uh very [personable] in a different way that a golden retriever is  
they're not [dignified] like a retriever can be  
yeah  
so how old is your retriever  
well actually you know that's the breed standard for females  
what you  
yeah  
what you see shown and bred now as golden retrievers this you know plus eighty to a hundred pound range  
that is not breed standard  
fifty five is the minimum  
but they usually run about sixty to sixty five  
and the ones that are shown they are inside that weight allowance  
you cannot show your retriever if it's you know a hundred plus pounds  
so don't say she's small   just say she's perfect  
uh_huh  
yep  
well they are they are the ultimate dog to have around kids so long as your kid is not scared of a big dog   because i had a retriever actually i had a retriever [irish] [setter] cross   which is a really nice animal  
and fortunately it was just like a retriever  
and then i've had a retriever  
it was gorgeous  
it was just gorgeous i mean just gorgeous  
um and they both you know  
both the half breed and the pure breed had the uh what i consider the the the perfect disposition  
but you know what you know what scares me about golden retrievers  
since they've become so popular you get what i call backyard breeders   which is probably where yours came from people that don't know what they're doing and they breed them you know for a certain [characteristic]  
and in the retrievers it happens to be they like them big for somehow big is perceived as the better  
and when you start doing that you really [tamper] with you know the all the the years of uh [culling] litters  
and and uh you [tamper] with what the dog [innately] is  
we  
when i was  
when i bought my last purebred retriever i mean i looked all over because i wanted one that still looked like a retriever you know the short to the ground [stocky] golden uh trainable [tractable] quiet   animal that could hunt and still be in the house  
and i ended up getting one that uh came out of a a a hunting stock   because i wanted one that could still perform like a retriever did  
and i've seen an awful lot of lately really dumb   dumb retrievers  
and i'm and i really fear for the breed because i love that breed  
but i really figure right when it becomes really popular that it's going to be ruined  
oh yeah  
you bet you  
you bet you  
you know how they came up with the retriever don't you the golden  
it was bred out of several different retrievers  
and they bred it for companionship and uh uh disposition and and ability to hunt  
it was kept only by kings  
but they [selectively] [culled] those litters i mean for many hundreds of years  
and since it slept in the castle with its master i mean it had it had to be of a disposition to make it you know an animal you could keep around that closely  
but they would go through all the litters and destroy the puppies if they were anything other than perfect  
now you know that seems like a cruel thing to do  
on the other hand you sure you know they sure created a a wonderful breed   i mean a wonderful breed  
uh_huh  
well i tell you   you know the the german shepherd is the classic case of what i'm talking about because in america that's called a rin tin tin phenomena  
only in america is there a dog called a german shepherd  
that dog is bred out of three european dogs the [belgian] [tervurien] a german skutzhund and a i always forget the third one i can see it  
uh uh  
but the third one is a children's dog  
and there are distinct breeds in europe  
now what happened over here was is that people saw the the first um which would actually have been a skutzhund which is what rin tin tin was  
and everybody wanted rin tin tin  
and it was known as a german shepherd here  
so they created a breed standard the american kennel club did  
that said anything that is a skutzhund a a [tervurien] and uh alsatian that's the other one alsatian any inner breeding of that can be called a german shepherd here  
and what happened is is that people wanted this shepherd to shepherd and protect  
and they bred a dog that i it's called a an [animal's] critical span which basically [translates] to how much shit will it take before it bites you  
that german shepherd the american german shepherd here was a a a such an [unreliable] animal that the american seeing eye institute   refused to use them   because they would turn on on their [handlers]  
and even um uh police corps which started you know finding other breeds to use because this thing this this thing known as a german shepherd here its personality and its [dependability] and its reliability was just terrible  
so about fifteen years ago the german shepherd club of america decided amongst themselves that they were going to change this  
so they went back to europe and brought back some good examples of each of the three breeds   and bred to a standard what they wanted an american german shepherd to be which is a very heavily now skutzhund and alsatian  
and it's the alsatian that's the kid's dog  
it's just  
you see them in europe  
and they're just lovely  
but you'll see  
i mean if you ever start looking in papers now and you start seeing these ads for german shepherds they will say on them bred for disposition a k c [conforming]   which means that their advertising that this is no longer an [indiscriminate] dog  
this is bred for  
and they had to go through and destroy a for a while there about seventy five percent of their puppies that they bred  
because they were looking for this disposition  
and nowadays you you'll get you'll get a dog trainer to recommend a specific you know [breeder] [handler]  
they will recommend their shepherds as a children's dog  
but  
okay  
uh well right now we have one dog inside  
she goes out  
but i mean she's an indoor dog  
and two outside cats  
male and female  
the  
the dog is probably about about thirteen fourteen years old  
and the cats are they might be as old  
i'm not sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh is that right  
what kind of dog do you have  
oh that's what ours is  
yes  
white  
oh uh_huh  
i'll be darned  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that's to be expected at   their age  
yeah  
well everybody always says no more  
but i i think animals are really important in the family  
i  
uh yeah  
we   have five  
well we have had we had had a a dog before  
she was fifteen when she died  
and uh this one we bought by accident  
a farmer called us and wanted us to call the animal shelter to or the dog catcher or somebody to come and get this puppy that   somebody  
people drop things like that off   up there  
and i said gee she sounds like a cute little dog  
i told the kids let's go look at her  
go get her  
so that's how we got her   quite by accident  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
she picked us  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh for heaven's sake  
no  
but they say it's real important for children to have pets because uh well they can go and talk to them any time  
they want to and tell them anything they want to  
and   nobody is going to you know [reprimand] them or   know their secrets  
or  
yeah  
yes  
and the nursing homes now they're finding that it's real important to take a pet into a nursing home  
uh_huh  
our one our one nursing home in has one  
permanent  
he he kind of has free run of the place and there is or somebody takes care of him  
but he goes out people  
and real nice dog uh  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh  
yeah  
is that right  
yeah  
because most campuses don't allow pets   you know  
they just do not allow them  
that's that's kind of great  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we've ruined them  
they say ruined them  
well we've had a lot of different pets  
we had the kids had rabbits for pets  
and we also raised them for food   at one time  
and we've had it we've had a skunk for a pet   for more years than i want to think about  
she was in the house  
well don't ever get one for a pet  
they're okay  
but like she uh  
they don't ever learn their name  
uh you can't you could never call her and she would come to you  
you had to go chase her down  
and uh their [eyesight] they can't see very far either  
but  
they  
before we got her everybody said oh they're just like a cat you know  
and uh they're not  
i mean they use the litter box  
that's about it  
oh my how how long  
probably seven or eight years  
and finally my children are the ones who said mom you've put up with that skunk long enough  
so   we moved her to the basement  
and i don't think she was there a week till the men moved her built her a pen outside  
and i thought i put up with that all those years  
and   we've had we've had cats   stay in the house  
we had we had two siamese cats   different times  
uh one of them ran off  
she ran off once  
or he i guess it was a male he ran off twice  
and the second time he never came back  
and we would see him uh several miles from our house  
he kind of moved into a woods down there  
and he got huge down there  
he really grew  
but he   he never came back  
well he wasn't a whole lot  
he was in the house most the time  
but uh he did go out sometimes  
and uh they  
it makes a much nicer cat if they're outside  
yeah  
the the cats  
my son has a cat  
and the vet had told us they get strange   if they're kept in the house all the time  
and their cat was not a friendly cat  
it was   it was not a good  
i don't know  
it got  
it was just did get strange  
and since they've moved to where they are they let the cat out  
and it has improved the personality  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh gosh  
and how long have you had them  
yes   kind of lose track  
well that's interesting because we have a  
we don't have cats  
but we do have a dog   who is an indoor dog  
and she is going to be thirteen this summer  
so  
yes uh_huh  
um she's um a mix of cockapoo cocker spaniel and poodle  
is that right  
isn't that interesting  
what color is your dog  
oh well ours is black  
so  
definitely different  
yes  
she's a female  
and she's um been she's been a really a really good companion for me  
um   she's like a little shadow you know kind of   follows me around all the time  
and and um she's [slowing] down considerably  
she doesn't hear very well  
and  
she doesn't see very well  
but she's  
yeah  
at this age i guess so  
but um she's been a good dog to have  
and i don't know  
once she's gone i'm not sure if i'll get another animal or not  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
yes  
um did you get yours as a pet for your  
do you have children  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well i was wondering if you got your dog originally as a pet for them or just because you'd had dogs before  
or  
my goodness  
uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
isn't that  
yes  
so that often happens that way  
well we had um intentionally um planned to get a dog  
we had just moved into this house and um decided to wait about a year and then went   then we went out then and found one  
she was in the litter  
and um she was so cute because all the other little puppies in that litter were just crazy  
i mean they were all over the place  
and she was real [docile] and   came over and just kind of sat next to us  
and i thought   that's the dog for me  
yeah  
so she  
and it  
what was funny was that um our daughter must have been  
let's see  
she must have been about eight at the time i guess  
and um she just loved this little dog   to pieces  
but i think she loved her too much because the dog has never been real comfortable with her  
i think   she was always a little bit leery of her  
our son on the other hand who was about eleven at the time was um not very interested in pets  
but as it turned out he and this dog have gotten to be really good [pals]  
so you just never know how that works out  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
that's right  
that  
yes  
they're very   [unjudgmental]  
oh dear  
yes  
i have been i have been reading and seeing about that on television  
uh_huh  
and how  
uh_huh  
is that right  
isn't that amazing  
uh_huh  
yes  
it's funny how um how pets can kind of um oh take on a certain status in certain areas  
i mean um that made me think of uh when our daughter was looking at colleges we visited a campus in um saint louis  
and   um there were several dogs on the campus  
and   and the  
what was interesting about it was that they were very friendly  
but they didn't appear to belong to anyone  
and um   i'm sure someone you know fed them  
they were healthy   looking dogs  
but um our guide that day said that the one woman many many years ago had given a huge sum of money to to the university on the condition that there be um dogs just kind of left to roam around the campus   which is the strangest thing i had ever heard  
i know  
yes  
i know  
yes  
it really was  
it was just a nice touch  
and it kind of made it seem more homey too  
but um  
i thought that was most unique  
and it just you know kind of goes along with what you were saying   about the dog having sort of free run of the the nursing home  
so um but uh i  
this is the only pet we've had   you know  
in all our years of marriage um  
and it's been uh sort of a a change for my husband because as a a a boy growing up his father had dogs  
but they were always hunting dogs  
and so they were never allowed in the house you know  
they were always kind of  
yeah  
right  
that's what he said  
yes  
so having a pet was a little bit different for him  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yes  
oh my golly  
oh gosh  
isn't that interesting  
i don't think i've ever talked to anyone who's actually had a skunk for a pet  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
i'll be darned  
how interesting  
uh_huh  
i guess i've heard that uh_huh  
uh_huh  
isn't that interesting  
that's that's really something  
um how long did you have that  
goodness sake  
oh my gosh  
isn't that funny  
yes  
and this is what it took finally  
that is  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
my goodness  
uh_huh  
i'll be  
my goodness  
that's   that's interesting  
i i wouldn't picture a siamese as being an outdoor cat  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is that right  
uh_huh  
well  
yeah  
so that that was right  
uh_huh  
carolyn i have a little schnauzer little miniature schnauzer  
what do you have  
you know those make the best animals uh best pets  
my uh son has a uh-oh  
it's a real mixture  
it's part uh [doberman] and part husky  
yes  
and they [gentlest] dog you ever met  
and they got him from the uh humane society here in oklahoma city  
and she's just turned out to be a [jewel]  
my my little schnauzer is is my friend  
she is so spoiled  
she's a year and a half old now  
and being single she's become very important in my life  
it's so nice to have come home and find something or someone who's really so happy to see you  
sometimes i wish i had not gotten this one it's a puppy because i work  
and i'm not home  
and unfortunately she's not as well trained as as i would like her to be  
and i realize it's my fault  
i'm not doing a really great job as a [disciplinarian]  
but uh  
it is  
it is  
she's you know she's real good  
i can leave her all day in the bathroom   with her toys and her food and everything  
and and not one mess does she make  
and then we go outside  
and she'll stay outside for oh thirty minutes to an hour come inside and use the restroom  
i just want to kill her at   those times  
but she's a doll  
she's a love  
she really is  
you know i i we always had a pet when i was growing up oh always had a dog  
my mother did not like cats  
so we always had a dog  
and and then course when my children were growing up we always had a dog and always said it was because the children wanted the pet  
and i find that i'm enjoying this one far more than i ever did when it was the children's dog  
i uh in fact my children gave me this this little puppy for christmas  
yeah  
i think so  
oh my goodness  
two babies  
huh  
oh  
that that is really probably bad timing  
oh yes  
do you  
and patience  
and you have to you really have to be just like your children  
when you set a rule you have to stand by it and be consistent  
and  
oh  
well it's kind of a mixed breed that we got from the humane society  
oh my  
oh  
uh_huh  
well my children are the ones that wanted our pet  
and this one is probably the best one that we have had  
um as i say we got it from the humane society  
and uh we had lost a pet  
and we really went there looking for the one that we had lost  
it got out under the fence while we were on vacation  
and we just looked all over for it and couldn't find it  
but uh when we walked in to the to the humane society this little dog was uh in the office and would sit up and beg  
and just oh he was so cute  
and the kids just fell in love with it  
we just couldn't leave without it  
but it's um whoever had it before must have trained it real well because it's just you know it's uh a good house dog  
i've never had one that i could keep in the house before and tolerate it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's hard to do that when you're not there constantly  
um  
oh  
um  
oh  
about the only time we have  
well i shouldn't say the only time  
but most of the time when we have problems with restroom is in the night  
and uh she usually stays inside at night  
we try to take her out right before we go to sleep  
but uh sometimes it doesn't work  
uh_huh  
oh  
what a cute idea  
well we got one one year for christmas  
and uh i had a baby the next day  
and uh so   that one wasn't really well trained  
oh i just didn't have time to take care of baby and train puppy at the same time  
so  
yeah  
i  
it was  
it really was  
the older kids had wanted one though  
and you know we thought well that would be a fun time for them to have it you know get it at christmas time  
it was a little spitz a little white   fluffy and you know looked like it came right from the north pole  
and that was fun  
but um i i sure wasn't good at training it  
i think you have to have time you know   to do those things  
that's right  
well do you have any pets  
oh  
oh  
i used to have box turtles um well years ago when i was growing up  
i i really like them  
oh  
yes  
um we have one dog a bichon [frise]  
um our friends in houston bred the dogs  
i had never heard of them  
they're um they're all white  
and they're small and um and fluffy  
they don't shed  
i guess they're [distantly] related to a poodle  
but they're not very well known in this country  
and they're not um high strung or over bred   um  
ours is uh on the small end  
and she's about ten pounds  
and they range from probably ten to sixteen pounds  
and they love people um and kids  
and that was something we were looking for um  
our our love is golden retrievers  
and that's what we had intended to get in houston  
but we had a small yard and a pool  
and knowing how they love to dig   and love the water um and we thought that was kind of a tough climate  
so uh we ended up getting this  
and uh my son would rather have a golden retriever though i think  
now he wants a a good size dog  
oh  
yeah  
well they really are um they're really sweet dogs  
we've uh we thought probably our neighborhood in houston had more of this breed than any other place just because of um the family that had them and and bred them  
they had five litters of puppies  
and   and a lot of them stayed in the neighborhood  
because um  
it's b i c h o n f r i s e  
bichon [frise]  
yeah  
they're uh  
and they don't shed  
so they're they're good dogs for people with with   allergies  
and they love people  
and they're  
um no  
not really  
ours um ours barks more than um than some because she spent a lot of time at our friends house  
we used to [swap] back and forth dogs  
they have three dogs  
they had a cockapoo and and two [bichons]   um  
and she didn't bark at all until she spent time there  
and uh now it's funny  
she's she's a good watch dog  
and if there's she'll bark that way  
but she also talks a lot  
she   um has a definite personality  
and so if we're leaving her she barks at us because   she doesn't want to be left um  
no  
no  
and they're um they're very smart dogs  
the circuses in europe used to use them   um for the acts  
they uh-oh they'll dance   on their [hind] legs each  
um but they're very easy to train  
and  
well they range  
i'd noticed up here they're a lot more expensive it seemed to me from the ads in the paper  
they run anywhere from two hundred to four hundred dollars i think   which i thought was a lot  
well she's no longer breeding them  
but um because her dogs um the the second one that she has was one of the puppies from the litter  
and uh the one male that she used had a tooth problem  
and so she only bred that dog once because it had   the tooth problem and did them strictly as um pets you know   they weren't weren't show quality  

oh but yeah takes a lot of time  
yeah  
um but she might have some contacts here  
i know i know that the dog's grandmother um was from plano  
oh that's where i live too  
yes  
i do  
i have a dog named [grisly] who's a ten year old uh mixed breed between golden retriever afghan hound and chow  
and i have a pair of box turtles  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i do too  
lucky and spot that's their names  
and they live in an aquarium without water in my family room  
and my dog thinks he's a mother turtle   and always has his nose all around my turtle box  
so do you have any pets now  
no  
i haven't either  
oh  
and how big do they get  
oh that's interesting  

the water  
yes  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
well we've got a good size dog  
and we were considering getting a puppy a small house lap top dog for him because he likes other animals and for me because we used to have a miniature dachshund  
and i miss   having a little one   you know around  
the kind you have sounds very interesting though  
oh  
uh_huh  
and how do you spell that breed  
f r i s e  
and how do you pronounce that  
okay  
i'm writing it out [phonetically]  
yes  
do they bark a lot  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh  
does she ever mess in the house  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh gee  
uh_huh  
and about how much are they  
and how about the   and how about the person in uh houston  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
just pets  
yes  
that's what we'd rather have is just a pet instead of  
we used to show saint [bernards] when i was a little girl  
we did that every weekend  
yes  
and it's very expensive  
oh that's where i live  
yeah  
i'm at coit and legacy  
sure  
i have a springer spaniel  
and her name is thumper  
she's about seven or eight years old  
i got her for christmas from my family and uh back when we lived in nebraska  
i like to hunt  
and uh so i thought that if i had a good hunting dog like thumper that boy i could just go out and get all kinds of game  
yeah  
except we live in plano texas now  
so  
do you have a pet now  
oh  
what kind of cat is it  
uh_huh  
being born outside you didn't have any problems house training him  
that's good  
sure  
and older  
well we went to a cat show at the plano center here in town  
and uh we thought that we have a cat now  
but we thought well if we ever get another cat you know we'd want something kind of unique  
so we kind of looked around  
and they had everything from [hairless] cats to siamese cats and persian cats  
and we sort of fell in love with the uh maine [coon] cats  
they're huge  
oh  
i'll be darned  
i didn't know that  
well that's interesting  
we kind of like  
well my family didn't necessarily like like them as much as i did  
but the [manx] is that the one that doesn't have a tail  
it sort of has a bob tail  
i kind of like that too  
but  
well i'll tell you an interesting story about how i got my dog  
and then i suppose our five minutes will be up  
i work for a university  
and i went to uh omaha nebraska to recruit students  
and i had some time off in the afternoon  
so i went to a a pet shop  
and i saw these little springer spaniels  
and so i decided well you know this would really be a nice dog to have  
so when i got back home to carney nebraska i told my wife about it  
and i said you know this is just a  
i i i can just hear the dog crying for me now  
and christmas is coming up hint hint  
and so i had to go back the next week as well as a bunch of other people from the university  
and one of the people uh that we went with uh they were friends of ours  
and so we got to omaha  
and i decided i'd take my friend over and show him the dog  
and so i got over there  
and she said oh that's too bad the dog has already been sold  
and i didn't realize it  
but this guy had somehow worked it out so that he got there a little bit earlier bought the dog  
and she was in the back room  
and so that night we had a reception for some of the uh potential high school students or college students  
and and uh he had the dog the whole time in his room  
and and i had no idea  
and so we headed back to carney that night  
and the dog rode in the car  
and we stopped along the way and had a bite to eat  
and they left the dog in the car  
and i guess while we were inside eating thumper just tore the heck out of the inside of the car  
and uh finally we made it back to uh to carney  
and  
do you have any  
did it work  
no  
right  
i um i had a for many years i had a dog that was part springer spaniel  
i just love them  
her name was molly  
but she isn't alive any more  
we had her for um fifteen years i think my family did and just loved her  
she was the greatest greatest um went through two generations of children in my family and was always very gentle  
yeah  
i have a cat now  
he just turned seven also  
and he's i um got him in arizona   and when i used to live there  
and he is huge  
he is eighteen pounds  
just  
um i got him  
he was um he was born in the wild like in a in a shed   and had never been in a building when i got him  
so he  
and he's he he must be part cross part with some kind of desert animal because he's very long and [lanky]  
but he's a very tame spoiled house cat you know now that i've had him for seven years  
no  
no  
he's  
yeah  
he's great  
and uh he's uh he's really spoiled though  
so but he's really big  
so lots of times he it he seems to get in fights  
and when he was younger i think he started them  
and now i think he barely makes it  
i think he gets beat up even though he's big because he's   pretty much overweight and   comes home with a few scratches now and then  
yeah  
oh i've seen them  
i  
yeah  
i have seen them  
they um weren't they they were  
actually i can't remember  
they were used to be used on ships and in for for [mousers]   you know  
so they're very [nautical] too  
yeah  
i just  
uh i think i'm i think i'm being accurate in the in the area of [folklore]  
but i'm not sure  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i'd love to go to a cat show  
i'm real a real cat lover  
i'd have a lot more cats if my boyfriend would let let me  
he doesn't really like mine let alone another one  
yeah  
okay  
um  
i know what you mean  
okay  
what kind of pet do you have gail  
oh you have children  
have you  
uh what have you had  
oh  
well you're going to have lots of pets with your children growing up  
well we had a a schnauzer that we lost this summer  
and he was fourteen years old  
and uh we've had two schnauzers  
and before that we had all dachshunds  
and i think my husband wants another dachshund  
and we're trying to debate because our children are grown  
and and uh i don't know whether we really want to be tied down to a you know another dog  
and we do have a very loving cat that's you know kind of our baby  
and uh and we like pets  
we like them around  
we have grandchildren that run through  
and they think we should have a dog  
and that's because they have a great [dane]  
they're just huge  
oh yes  
yes  
yes  
i have never wanted to  
that's why we've never gotten a female you know in anything  
and uh uh and our male cats you know we had   uh neutered right away  
and of course it he doesn't know it  
he's still out partying  
but um you know i do think that maybe we'll get a female next time and just had her have her spayed you know  
and uh  
yes  
yes  
yes  
which i think is a good thing  
it just breaks my heart to see these poor little old dogs wandering the streets looking starved  
and   you know  
it uh  
plus uh you know the safety factor and stuff  
well we enjoy having pets  
we uh you know i think they're a lot of company  
and and when my mother lived with us uh the cat was really hers  
and and he was kind of wild  
our our daughter found her and brought her to us  
and uh that cat walked in and walked right up to my mother and jumped up and [curled] up in her lap  
and she was the only one at first that you know could really hold him you know because he was really [skittish]  
but it was like he knew   you know  
and he would sleep with her  
and so he was a lot of company to her   you know and   and just love her  
and he's cats are usually so independent  
but this one you know he comes up  
and he [crawls] up next to my husband now you know  
he's  
you know before the dog died we have a queen size bed and the dog would sleep on my side  
and the cat would sleep on my husband's side you know  
and when everybody turned we all four of us turned in a row  
uh_huh  
did he  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think that's one of the reasons our  
because as i said our our schnauzer was old  
and so he was becoming [incontinent]  
and so then i would just have messes in the house  
and i think that's one of the things that both of us are not wanting to start over with you know  
and uh and it was new carpeting  
and you know it just really you know upset me no end  
and uh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yes  
you will  
you will  
you know we were trying to decide to you know about putting him to sleep  
he was just you know he was getting so old and had a other problems too  
and and fortunately the decision was just taken away from us which made it a whole lot easier you know  
and and again going through that because our our animals are almost like our kids in some ways you know  
and and you grieve just as much over them when they go   you know as you would a child  
and and you know our son and and his wife and our daughter and her husband and the grandkids all say get a dog get a dog you know  
little thing  
be quiet  
be quiet  
and i can tell my husband you know deep down he you know he  
well i don't  
i have children  
i have little children  
both of my kids are under two so right now we don't have pets  
but we've had lots of them in the past  
uh_huh  
well we had a dog before we moved here  
uh and we couldn't bring her with us  
we came from colorado  
and we've had hamsters and fish and birds  
okay  
i've  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yes  
definitely  
well we you know  
if it um if it were just more peaceful you know with the little ones we would definitely have a pet  
i just think it's nice to have around  
we had a cat that had kittens  
so any pet that i get from now on will definitely be spayed or neutered  
because uh i did  
that experience was awful  
uh_huh  
what you doing  
oh  
well a lot of times now when you buy them from like the s p c a or   from the humane societies or whatever their adoption includes their [spaying]  
so  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my husband that's one thing he hated was our cat used to sleep with us  
our dog wasn't interested in even coming in our room  
but our cat would sleep with us  
and he hated that  
uh_huh  
he just thought that they belong  
and when she'd walk on the couch along the back behind his head   he hated that  
so i guess it's probably probably if we get another animal it probably wouldn't be a cat even though i love cats  
i think it would probably be a dog  
and it would definitely be an outdoor animal  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh that would greg uh  
my husband's grandparents have a dog  
and they just  
it needs to be put to sleep  
but it's [grandpa's] dog  
and uh he's really getting too old to take care of it  
but the dog messes all over the carpet  
and my daughter is just nine months old  
and so then she [crawls] on the carpet  
and oh the smell i mean   it's just really awful  
and that's that's one real drawback  
but you know i guess you'll do just about anything for your pet if you love them enough  
uh_huh  

okay  
well do you have a pet  
two cats  
you're lucky  
your two fish  
well my husband  
you know how sometimes when you marry someone that you get along on everything except one major thing  
my husband is a hunter fisherman [outdoorsman] [marlboro] type person who had to have a sporting dog  
so we have a black labrador  
beautiful gorgeous black labrador  
but to me he belongs up in the field you know in the   ranch in the farm  
and  
well because we finally negotiated that i was losing my mind uh he sleeps in the laundry room  
and then he goes out for the day  
but this this is a beautiful dog  
and he is wonderful with our little girls  
and he is he's comes from a purebred line  
and there's nothing you could say bad about him except that i was more of a cat or a small dog person   that you could sit in the chair and cuddle  
and this is huge  
you know course when he runs around the yard he just [digs]  
he doesn't know that he's tearing up things  
but he does  
and the worst part that i had with him he's he's three now   was when he was uh about eight months old  
and i did not know what to expect from a dog having not had one  
and i left him in the kitchen with the little baby gates up while i was gone for about an hour  
and i came home  
and he had ripped my wallpaper off my wall  
and it was in the floor  
and i just about lost it  
and i called  
and i said come home and get your dog  
and so he said well puppies just chew when they're nervous and i well i wish you had told me   you know  
and it was about eight months later he ate a piece of the linoleum  
he kept picking at it  
and i didn't  
the the tile in the kitchen and picked a hole in it  
so the last thing he did was when i had sat out a whole lot of [begonias] in the backyard and he dug them all up and brought them to the porch  
and i told my husband  
i said you know it's either me or the dog  
and he looked at me like well you know  
he loves this dog  
and every night when he comes home from work he [hugs] it and talks to him  
and he's a good dog  
so it's one of those things i'm just having to get used to  
and that's why i laughed when they called with the topic  
i thought oh boy do i have a pet  
but i i grew up with cats  
and i'm very comfortable  
yeah  
oh  
she's old  
isn't she  
oh i started to say  
then you broke your heart  
oh  
oh  
bless your heart  
that makes me feel so bad  
yeah  
oh no  
oh  
oh no  
oh that's awful  
i never heard of that before  
uh_huh  
or the smell or something  
uh_huh  
well now does   your cat sleep in the house  
they are they are house cats  
yeah  
oh yeah  
good  
oh  
but the cat doesn't [destruct] does it  
see it doesn't do anything  
see  
oh no  
yeah  
oh  
oh no  
oh that is  
they do wreck things  
well i'm not either  
i'm not either  
and it's just been  
he's beautiful  
but it's just one of those [concessions]   i just had to make  
but i kind of ignore him  
now today's the first cold we've had in texas  
and it's really cold and [drizzly]  
and it's freezing  
and people are doing their fires  
and i brought him in because he's just a wet mess out there  
and he's in the laundry room with this little carpet square  
and he's just [huddled] up like if you'll be nice to me i won't make any trouble you know  
and then my daughters both have hamsters  
and i i  
they're eleven and eight  
and i   gave in at christmas  
and they have they keep their cages real clean  
it always smells of cedar  
and they just sleep and eat bits of apple and carrots and  
i think they're cutting us off  
oh  
oh okay  
okay  
oh okay  
i understand  
okay  
well  
they'll cut us off pretty soon  
yeah  
i know  
how does  
in the salt water  
salt water or  
yeah  
i have two cats   and do and oh and two fish  
and what do you have  
oh no  
ooh  
right   does he sleep in your house  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
oh dear  
good bye  
i love my cats  
i had one cat for eighteen years  
i got her when i lived in hawaii  
before i even got married i had my cat  
well she i   had to have her put to sleep last   june  
oh it was awful  
it was just awful  
but and she just sat there on my lap you know  
she just just waited  
and  
oh it was awful  
but her hair  
but the bad thing was though she would pee in my husband's shoes  
you know and she just liked his shoes  
and he'd have these dress   hundred dollar shoes  
oh it was just bad  
and my closet  
and it was oh something  
oh it was terrible  
and once she did it you know then she would i mean she wouldn't  
if our shoes sat side by side she would pee in my husband's shoes  
she must have known he didn't like her or something  
oh anyway i i  
and i would shut i would bar the closet doors   and would uh clean the carpets  
and  
oh dear it was just awful  
that was very funny  
i uh well i have two cats right now  
and of course  
they sleep with my kids  
my kids my my fourteen year old son has an extra pillow on his bed   just for the cat  
oh no i   i'm not going to have a dog  
we've had two dogs  
and uh they both got ran over   after we had them for several years just nice little outside dogs  
but  
were just my kids' friends  
they would go they would go with me when i would go running  
and   and the last one got hit uh as she was following my one of my sons across the road to the school  
it was awful  
it was just  
and it just it's too heartbreaking  
but they do dig up  
and they just they just wreck things  
and i'm not a   dog person  
ooh  
i wouldn't want a lab  
it sounds beautiful  
but  
um  
oh  
and how old are your girls  
oh yeah  
sure  
no  
that's  
somebody's trying to cut in on my line  
and i don't want to answer  
i'll just wait  
no  
i've i've got incoming calls  
and i don't know why calling  
i i hate to cut it off  
i think   they would cut us off  
so we'll just wait  
whoever it is will call back  
well it's somebody calling for my kids you know  
jeez  
actually it's my son  
i know it is  
my older boy he never likes to come home from school  
anyway that's what we have  
and i have i've tried to start a fish tank  
and i keep   losing all my fish  
no  
just regular water  
hello lynn  
okay  
do you have any pets  
oh what are their names  
which is the dog and which is the cat  
uh wife and i we have we have two cats  
uh one's real nice  
but the other one is a well  
she's pretty wild  
yeah  
are they um just house pets  
yeah  
that's that's what ours are too  
oh really  
oh well that's a nice nice story um  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
wow  
uh_huh  
wow  
um do the skunk uh was it kind of like a cat to have around the house  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
and the skunk  
oh yeah  
um  
oh  
uh i had i had a dog one time  
and uh he chased after a after a skunk and got sprayed  
so we had to we had to give him a tomato tomato juice bath and uh get him cleaned up  
uh_huh  
right  
but i suppose it was still in the instinct of them to   to back up and get ready  
yeah  
why i don't know  
i i think they're kind of nice to have  
they're kind of you know just relaxing to i don't know to pet and to  
i don't know  
when they like sit up on your lap and stuff like that just kind of enjoyable to you know have like  
i don't know  
something giving you some affection as well  
what what do you think  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
um do you like big dogs or   or little dogs  
uh_huh  
really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
almost cruel for him to to walk  
wow yeah  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
we've got a [calico] cat too  
yeah  
yeah  
she's the she's the nice one  
we uh we used to live in an apartment  
and like our cats never went outside  
but um the neighbors used to let their dogs out  
and our neighbors were i don't know kind of slimy  
and uh our cats wound up getting fleas uh from the apartment that we were in  
so we had to we had to flea bath them  
and it was uh it was an experience that they didn't enjoy at all  
yeah  
really  
really  
oh  
yes  
yes  
i have a dog and cat now  
[tibby] and liberty  
[tibby] is the dog  
and liberty is the cat  
oh  
oh ours are pretty calm  
uh_huh  
yeah  
our cat we got from the pound the day the night she was going to be put to sleep  
so   that's why we call her liberty  
do you want to hear about my other animals i've had  
i've had a skunk  
i've had a burmese python  
i've had rats  
i've had mice  
uh let's see  
i've had gerbils  
i have i had a son he's now gone from the home that was an animal lover  
so at one point i had a snake skunk dog and cat running loose in the house  
yes  
it was litter trained  
and we had it [perfumed]  
and uh it was very aggressive  
but all the all three of them dog cat and skunk used to chase each other all through the house  
and the only thing we have with the skunk he was very very protective of his territory   being the sofa and the blanket on the sofa  
nobody came near it when he was there  
oh  
yeah  
they um ours would still back up to the dog or cat when he got mad and try to perfume them  
but   the [glands] had been removed  
so  
right  
one other question we had is why do you have pets  
yeah  
i always said if i   well i always said if i died i'd come back as a dog  
that'd be the best way to be  
well   we had a german shepherd  
and he had dysplasia  
and he had it for about three or four years where we just about had to lift him and carry him every place he went  
so when he died we got a little one  
but our shepherd was almost thirteen years old  
and it just you know was almost cruel   because  
yeah  
he just he couldn't get up  
he couldn't walk  
so he was a hundred and twenty pounds  
so it was a chore  
so we said the next time around we'd get something little that if   something happened it would be easier to carry  
and then we've had three cats in our married life  
and we've got a [calico] now  
do you  
um  
yeah  
well don't even talk to me  
i when i was single   i had gone away for the weekend  
and my husband then fiance was to keep my cat  
and he let her out  
and my house was loaded with fleas  
i mean you walked in  
and your legs were just black  
and we had such a time and never got the cat back  
yeah  
i found it you know in the street  
i was a social worker at the time and found it  
okay um  
do you have any pets now  
yeah  
oh okay  
um that  
a matter of choice or [compulsion]  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well right now i'm a student  
and campus housing does not even allow thinking about that  
no  
we almost got chased out of here for feeding a stray cat  
yeah  
they're very strict about it  
oh i love animals  
i was raised  
our house when i when i was growing up there was almost never uh at least one cat in the house  
it was almost always at least one cat sometimes you know like fifteen or twenty but uh always cats in the house  
oh  
yeah  
how old are your kids  
okay  
one  
our first  
he's about eleven weeks now  
yeah  
yeah  
uh originally  
west virginia  
um i don't know how familiar you are with that area of the country  
but  
charleston west virginia  
okay  
that's pretty much the south end of the state or the southern quarter of the state anyway  
okay  
in the north end of the state you've got that little narrow strip of west virginia going up between ohio and pennsylvania  
right at the base of that northern peninsula   is my hometown  
yeah  
yeah  
it's  
well um my parents' house is like three miles south of where the mason [dixon] line would have hit the ohio river had it   continued that far  
so  
oh it's beautiful  
uh well from my neck of the woods it's hilly  
um you know uh maybe three hundred four hundred feet elevation uh   type [variations] from the valleys up to the hills the [hilltops]  
um not a lot of [farmland] there  
mostly it's uh  
i mean you know there's you know individuals with their own own uh growing their own food  
uh most of the agriculture it's more in the way of uh sheep and cattle  
and even that's you know small time mostly  
uh the biggest chunk of what's going on there is is uh industry  
it's coal mines and chemical plants and power plants  
uh aluminum plants  
there's like two aluminum plants  
computer engineering  
uh just finished up my fourth semester  
yeah  
yeah  
it's a big change  
i spent   twenty years as a mechanic  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm working on a bachelor's degree  
i'm working on a bachelor's degree  
it'll be  
pardon  
uh it seems to me from what i've been able to find out  
that's considered a pretty good program  
it's nice and small which means you know if you don't get the class this semester then you've got to wait or three or four you know anywhere from two to four semesters to get   it again  
but uh it's worth it once you get it  
oh yeah  
yeah  
most the class are pretty small  
that works out real well  
uh well um first off we'd probably wind up with a a cat or maybe a puppy  
i i i'm partial towards the larger dogs  
um our last we've we've had a couple of cats before we moved on campus  
uh had a hamster or two  
and they they got   to be a lot of fun  
uh it's amazing how much character  
well we don't right now  
no  
we've uh  
i grew up   with uh with pets  
my folks and i always had a dog and a cat   some   birds  
but uh right now we don't have anything  
what about you  
well we've just uh  
it seems like   we've always been at a place where we'd have to go away for the summer or something  
and uh it was   never convenient to have anything  
we were thinking about getting a dog if we get into a house  
uh someplace where there you know  
we can take care of it and everything  
we've got   some children who would just really uh enjoy having an animal you know a dog i think  
and   what about you all  
oh no  
is that right  
but you like uh you like pets and things  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
we we   enjoyed them  
we like we like pets  
but uh you know you've got to deal with uh taking care of them and and feeding them and everything like that  
and our kids are  
we've got some children  
and they're not not used to it you know on a daily basis  
they they uh  
oh from fourteen down to seven  
you sound like you've got some small ones in the background  
is that right  
oh great  
congratulations  
where are you from  
uh_huh  
okay  
i've been to charleston  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's yeah that's interesting  
so it's really up north in the country really  
i guess so  
gosh  
i see  
it's pretty nice country up there  
hills or what  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is it [farmland]  
oh yes  
sure  
uh_huh  
okay  
what are you what are you studying there at [heidelberg]  
oh yeah  
what year  
well great  
yeah  
i hope that works out well  
yeah  
what's  
oh did you  
well you've got some experience behind you in the work force  
yeah  
are you uh shooting for a bachelor's now or a master's or what  
oh okay  
good  
hope it's a good program there  
hope it's a good program there  
yeah  
good  
huh  
well yes  
that's good  
and probably a good uh student teacher ratio and things  
yeah  
good  
well i i was wondering what if you all were to get a pet like if you were to move into an apartment  
or a house somewhere what would you get  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a hamster  
oh yeah  
you bet  
they tell you our topic  
you've got it  
yes  
we do  
uh my wife and i have a dog that soon be eight years old  
and we have a a cat which is uh i guess about five years old  
how about you guys  
three dogs  
and two  
what kind of birds do you have  
no kidding  
enjoy them  
you let them out and let them fly around and everything  
okay  

you know this is like a [cruelty] joke  
and i apologize if you're a bird lover  
but uh we had a parakeet   and my fault put up our first electric fan   and never thought about it  
knocked that parakeet right out of the air  
it killed him  
oh that's  
well it killed ours  
i'll be darned  
well speaking of pets i'll tell you my my kids are older now  
my both of them are either in or out of college  
but but we had for years about five years i guess had a my son had a burmese [boa] [constrictor]  
and   that thing grew to be seven and a half feet in in length  
and finally my wife wife bless her heart got rid of it because i didn't really like it  
we also had a  
one year down in florida on a vacation for father's day my kids years ago maybe uh ten years ago go bought me a skunk from a exotic pet shop  
it'd be like it'd been like [deactivated] as far as   smell and everything  
and we had that darn pet skunk for about five years  
and and my son left went to school  
we finally sold his [boa] [constrictor]  
but my son needed some money  
and we we sold it for about two hundred and fifty dollars  
so when the guy came over he was [infatuated] by that skunk  
so i made him a deal  
i said you take that skunk  
and he said i'll sell that snake to you for two fifty  
i said otherwise i'm going to give it to this other man  
so he took the skunk too  
and the skunk was a good a decent pet  
but you know does his little [jobbies] in the litter box  
and is is  
and it was sort of a neat  
but they just stink too much  
that was sort of fun you know  
i tell everyone this story because my wife is a real pet lover  
i use to visualize my wife  
many times my wife would be lying there on the sofa  
and this snake honestly would be stretched across the top of her body   and with his with his head right on her neck  
and the skunk would be sitting at her feet  
but the cat would be on the back of the sofa  
and a dog would be running around crazy  
oh gosh  
oh my son bought this snake uh  
someone gave it to him when he was in junior high school  
and it was just a small thing then  
but it got to be pretty big  
and you know you'd feed it you'd feed it you put feed him small mice to big rats and things like that  
it's just uh too much  
that snake used to watch our cat walk around  
i always told my wife  
i says   you know your friend's going to get our cat one of these days  
oh me neither  
we're down to a simple dog and cat now  
and that's the way it should be  
and  
haven't had any parakeets for quite a while  
birds  
uh customer of mine has a parrot  
and uh gosh sticks in my mind he paid eighteen hundred dollars for a parrot  
and that was just mind boggling  
are you  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh gosh  
that's neat  
why sure  
come to my [menagerie]  
uh pets  
do you have pets  
oh my goodness  
we have three dogs and   two birds at this point  
parakeets  
oh have a ball with them  
well no  
because my dogs chase them  
so in order to have the birds not stuffed i have to keep them in their   cages  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we had that happen once um  
my son had the bird back in his room  
because it's his well the first one that we had was his bird  
and i had a ceiling fan put up  
and it the bird got away from him one afternoon  
and i mean that sucker hit that fan and went flying up against the wall  
i thought oh   so much for the bird  
no  
he's still alive and kicking  
no  
i guess we didn't have it high enough or he didn't get hit in just the right spot  
but it threw him up against the wall you know  
and he [slid] down the wall  
oh gosh   oh i hate them  
oh my goodness  
you're kidding  
oh well that's pretty good  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
oh you're kidding  
oh  
oh my gosh  
i can not  
i just i don't  
in fact my brother has a uh a exotic pet shop out in california  
and he keeps threatening to send a snake through the mail you know  
i'm going   don't do that because they won't come in my house  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
oh my gosh  
that is wild  
oh i just can't do those and the lizards and the   all those those things  
they they need to stay outside far away from me  
yeah  
oh yeah  
they are so expensive  
well my son was just dying for a bird  
and i'm really allergic to them  
so   i try to stay away from them except i've gotten real attached to this one  
and and uh we went down to canton one time   oh gosh two or three years ago now  
and he'd saved up his allowance you know and picked him out a bird in a bird cage  
and   and that stinking bird when i brought it home tried to take it out of the little box that they give you  
[clamped] onto my finger and would not  
i mean i had to literally shake him off to get him in the cage  
and he has tried to bite me for two years  
and all of a sudden this bird and i have become wonderful friends  
he gives me kisses  
he talks now  
and it's just hysterical  
i'm the only one that pays attention to him  
and i'm a substitute teacher  
and one of my fifth graders last year came up to me and said my mom's making me get rid of the bird  
we have too many pets  
i thought yeah right come tell me about it   you know  
they knew the sucker when they saw one  
so now we have two parakeets  
uh we have a sheltie collie a miniature sheltie  
yeah  
it's about oh about six months old  
and we're  
we live in an apartment  
so we don't have a yard  
so it has to stay inside  
and we're having a difficult time trying to train it  
it's about six months  
really  
but they're supposed to be real intelligent dogs  
but i guess every one one one one of them or every once in a while you get one that's not so intelligent   because this one it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so how'd you all how do you  
what's the best method  
right  
stand outside with them until they  
well we're hardly ever at home  
so it's   kind of difficult  
and you know you don't want to you don't want to spank it or scare it or anything like that  
so  
yeah  
we we try to take it you know  
it gets it gets frustrating when you take it outside  
and you know   and then it runs right inside  
and it does it huh  
yeah  
a lot of times  
and   you know it won't it's little job outside  
and it comes inside  
uh yeah  
we've tried that  
and uh you know there's certain spots in the house where he likes to   go  
so and he [chews] on plants and all that  
but you know that's natural   for a little puppy huh  
oh really  
oh that's sad  
how old is it  
man   that's sad  
oh of course not  
i couldn't  
that is really sad  
what what's the deal  
we we try to we're trying to take it on walks now you know  
and we can't because it's not accustomed to being on a leash  
and so it i mean this dog really feels like it's being killed or something when you try to you know tug on it to walk it  
i mean it just goes like a mad dog  
i mean it just jumps up and down and starts [yapping]  
and   it's you know i mean it's not even close to even   being trained on a leash  
uh_huh  
well we've heard bad we've heard some bad things about some of those you know  
they sometimes misuse their license or whatever   you know  
they treat them bad  
oh really  
oh really  
uh_huh  
how long did it take  
every what  
oh really  
well sheltie [collies] are you know [timid]  
and they don't really  
unless they get used to something they're really nervous  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh if they're not accustomed to something they they're really scared  
so  
do you  
how old is it  
uh you you're you're in the [roughest] stages of pet   ownership i think  
well   i don't i don't know if that has anything to do with the intelligence really the the the training bit uh  
i've had dogs through the years  
right now i've got two and three cats  
but uh and my son and daughter in law have kind of a sheltie mix  
and we watched it this summer for two to three months  
and it wasn't trained quite fully either  
and uh but it was a sweet and an intelligent dog  
i don't know  
i i'm old fashioned  
and when i got my my dogs when they when they did something i [hollered] at them and threw them outside  
they say that's not the way to do it now  
you're just supposed to  
no  
just just put them outside i guess unless you catch them in the act  
yeah  
no  
no  
you don't want to do that  
but uh  
does does it just want to sniff around  
does it just want to sniff around and play when it's outside  
yeah  
have you praised it and given it a treat maybe when it does something outside  
yeah  
that's nothing huh  
well it it it'll it'll catch on pretty soon i'll i'll bet you  
i i have a sixteen year old almost sixteen year old golden retriever  
and she's gone the other way  
because she's so old she doesn't have much control  
so we're [battling] with that problem  
and she still feels good  
uh she can't hear worth a darn or see very well  
but she's got a great appetite  
and she knows we're there   by smell  
she'll be sixteen in may  
and   yeah  
but we can't bear to do anything because   she's been our friend for all these years  
so   we're putting up with all her accidents  
and the  
two nights ago she had [diarrhea]  
and so that was a bad one  
but uh i think we're buying a carpet [shampooer] this weekend  
uh_huh  
yeah  
does it oh  
uh_huh  
you know maybe you you can get it signed up this spring or summer for some of the dog obedience classes  
oh  
well you know we went we went to the junior college richland  
and we took  
my my daughter was living at home then  
and she took our golden retriever oh not the golden retriever the norwegian elk hound over there  
and it it it's a pretty good class  
and they did pretty good except this dog is  
she's just pretty  
she's not smart  
so she didn't learn a lot  
but it i think it calmed her down a little bit  
and she's used to being around other dogs now  
i think it was like a six week program  
uh i think it was one night a week   for like six weeks  
and uh you know it was a group class outside  
it was fairly reasonable too  
yeah  
they're they're usually   a high strung dog aren't they  
um our our friend has a  
okay um chuck do you have any pets there at your home  
and what kind do you have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we have a cat um  
he's probably oh a good two years old big old fat and [sassy] tabby  
oh uh how's the disposition of your siamese cat  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
he's uh he has been really aggressive uh especially towards my little girl for   some reason  
he's uh been so mean to her  
we've had him for about two years  
and he was so mean to her um right after we first got him  
so we had him neutered and and declawed  
and now he bites her  
he can't   scratch her any more  
he bites her  
yeah  
yeah  
he has a couple of times  
so  
but he's a very [possessive] cat  
he he loves my son  
it's his cat  
and he's the only one that allows him to touch him or pet him or love him  
and he's so funny  
he just follows my son around just like a dog  
he won't even let my son shower  
he [meows] and wants to get in the bathroom  
and while he showers it's so hilarious  
so he's quite a animal  
yeah  
yeah  
well we we did uh actually take him to the pound a couple of times you know   because we just couldn't have him being   so aggressive towards the girl  
but uh he seems to have [mellowed] out a little bit  
and we do keep our daughter away from him  
so  
were it not for my son the cat would not be in this house  
it is  
uh_huh  
we we tried a dog about four years ago and we ended up with uh-oh malamute and some other kind of mix  
anyway it was it ended up being just a huge huge dog that ate us out of house and home  
so we gave him up and tried  
yes  
uh_huh  
we're in a house  
but we're in a subdivision   where we really can't allow the dog  
we couldn't allow him to run free  
so he was just chained up all the time  
and it was it was   unfortunate  
so have you tried any other pets  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
oh my word  
and do they they just paper train it or something  
yeah  
well rabbits are [darling]  
that would be fun if you could get them trained  
otherwise they're pretty smelly  
oh  
huh_uh  
we don't have c we don't have cable  
oh  
oh  
is that right  
oh  
uh_huh  
well i'd be interesting to watch  
yes  
uh_huh  
elton  
we live out here by it's by ogden  
it's north of salt lake city utah  
and we really love it out here  
it's uh kind of country  
we're we're only about ten minutes from ogden  
so we're kind of country but not too  
no  
huh_uh  
do you  
oh well see i'm getting so many calls to texas  
oh well great  
yeah  
i've been doing it for about two weeks  
and uh no my   no my  
yeah i do  
i've got a male siamese about a year old here  
i live alone in an apartment and uh   except for the cat  
how about you  
uh_huh  
well it's uh you know they're just uh aggressive by nature  
and uh he's been neutered and declawed  
so   he's an indoor cat  
so uh that kind of [calms] him down for the most part  
how about yours  
huh  
and and you say you've had him how long  
two years  
huh  
does he bite her enough to draw blood  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
boy  
i guess  
well as long as he doesn't get too aggressive i guess with the daughter he's all right  
you wouldn't want him to carry her off or something  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
is that the only pet that you have  
well do you live you you in a house or a place where you uh  
i see  
sure  
no  
no  
i i live alone in an apartment  
and uh it's it's not that big that uh  
although i've heard rabbits are pretty good  
you know i saw something on c n n or on cable here   a while ago that showed some people that had rabbits in apartments   and in houses  
and they apparently uh  
especially when they're young when they bring them in  
uh  
i guess  
i guess  
yeah  
and i would imagine that they don't have many more than one to start with either  
yep  
that's right  
did you see the the c n n the the dog show uh  
i see  
well they have uh uh a they call it the [westminster] dog show uh  
i think it's in new york city at the at the gardens  
there once a year live  
and they had that on last week  
and that's really kind of something   to watch uh  
it's on i think two or three nights for maybe an hour or two  
and some of the weirdest animals you ever want to see in there  
some of them are really beautiful too  
so  
so you live in utah do you  
goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well do you all work for t i or for  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
this is the very first one i've i've talked to  
uh_huh  
dave  
what kind of pets do you have  
one rotten cat  
i heard a laugh in the background  
don't you like cats  
oh yeah  
that's odd  
how does he treat the other people  
wow  
did he raise him or something  
uh_huh  
huh that's interesting  
huh we have a a mutt  
well we we named it [hooper] because that's where we got it from  
uh some lady she uh  
a lot of people uh uh drop off abandoned abandoned pets at her house  
and she use to work for a veterinarian  
so she would uh [neuter] them   give them all their shots  
and we saw an ad saying it was free  
so we went down there and picked it up  
and it's been an excellent dog  
but it's my first dog i've had  
and we got it because my wife stays here at home alone   while i go to work  
so that's mostly why we got it to keep her company while i am away at work  
uh yeah  
right now it it is  
it's kind of good training  
i mean we have been trying for kids  
but   right now we haven't had any  
but it's pretty good training i think really keeps her on her toes  
uh my brother has  
uh we didn't do a lot with them  
uh i never felt like it was mine or anything  
you couldn't do anything  
but i mean that did did more responsibility when it's yours and not your brothers  
but  
uh_huh  
that's what we found  
ours is uh like a cockapoo  
i think it's half cocker spaniel and half poodle  
but it's a really good dog  
i don't know  
they seem to be i mean listen better or something  
is your cat a purebred  
uh_huh  
would you ever want a dog in the family  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
he just needed a lot of time  
oh we have one rotten cat  
yeah  
it's my son's cat  
yeah  
that's the boys  
they know i don't like it  
well i like cats  
this this cat is a uh more like a dog  
yeah  
he's uh a one owner  
he likes one boy in the family and that's about it  
just uh stays away or runs   usually  
but he follows he'll follow my oldest son around  
you know when he is in the house he will come up and he'll jump on his lap  
but if anybody reaches over to pet him or whatever he'll just kind of look at them like what are doing  
he's he we bought the cat for him  
and so he's uh been the one that you know spent the most time with him  
but i i've never owned a cat like that  
i've had cats growing up all the time  
and you know they are   usually either that way with everybody or friendly to everybody  
so it's a weird cat  
a mutt  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so that is that is that kind of your child right now  
you feel like  
oh uh_huh  
have have you had dogs before  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i just uh we've you know  
when i was growing up i had we always had a dog  
and we had mostly mutts  
well not mutts but mixes   you know like one or two mix  
and those dogs always seem to be the best dogs  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
it's just uh an accident  
from a uh from my my son's friend down the street  
they're   they're cat was an outside cat and just end up with some kittens  
and so  
uh we i would  
we uh we had a dog that was a uh mix between an alaska malamute and a labrador  
and uh i should say a pup  
and he was just too big for our kids   when we got him  
and we when we moved into our house that was the first thing we wanted to get was uh you know was a pet  
and it was a dog that we gotten  
and he was he was just too big  
uh the kids couldn't handle him  
and i was still going to school  
and my wife was working  
and i was working  
and so we just didn't have time to really train him  
so he was kind of you know he was too big for the kids to handle  
so he was just tied up to a post  
so we gave him to uh  
i don't know if you've  
there is a place out here uh called [shorties] lane out here in [harrisville]  
and they have uh  
i guess it's kind of an animal shelter  
but he just takes a few the animals in  
and some he destroys  
and some he keeps  
so we took him up there  
and he ended up keeping him  
uh cause he has had him for six or seven years  
we we've saw him just about a year ago  
and uh i thought boy that sure looks like that pup we gave away  
and so we asked him about it one day  
and he said yeah  
he's been the best dog i've ever had in my life  
just goes everywhere with him  
i he would have been a great great dog  
do you have any  
uh_huh  
all right  
yeah  
oh that's good  
you don't often find that  
i don't think  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
there's a  
okay uh  
that's interesting  
yeah  
the only pet that i've had uh  
i'm a i'm a doctoral student right now  
and in my in my earlier days as a student i kind of time shared on a dog with a a good friend of mine  
and uh it was an amazing dog  
it really was  
they had he had gotten it from the pound  
and uh it it's a spanish [pointer] named domino   kind of looks like a a dalmatian  
and we trained it from a pup  
and basically it right now it it's fully trained  
and it can do a lot of things  
it will get beer for you out of the [fridge]  
and it will get the newspaper and do all kinds of stuff  
so it's really it's it's kind of a show piece  
and whenever anybody comes over we all have to show him domino you know  
yeah  
it's uh  
she's been a real good a real good dog  
and uh just it's kind of a shame that i'm i'm i'm away from it now  
i i i actually live in florida  
but i'm on an internship up here for a year  
and then i go back down  
but uh  
yeah  
domino's a real good dog  
uh what uh possessed you to get the dog  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure learn a bit learn a little bit of discipline and how to care for it and things like that  
that's good  
that kind of builds some   character a little bit  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's something that's important for sure  
i think uh do you live in a in a in a fairly rural part of the uh  
or  
oh i see  
um  
yeah  
it's not that big of a problem  
with domino she was full grown  
i would estimate seventy pounds  
and you know we lived in [oviedo] which is a small town  
it's a suburb of orlando  
but there's not there wasn't a lot of room for her to run around  
and she was a dog that loved to run  
so that was the biggest problem i saw  
and i think that's one of the uh the issues people need to think about before they get a dog is you know do you have the room for this dog to run around  
or you know i guess you can't really say for cats  
me and cats don't get along too well uh  
but you know that whole space issue i think is real important  
right  
yeah  
that that  
sure  
and that's all part of of keeping your part of the relationship   you know showing the maturity and responsibility to recognize those uh those issues  
you know and also the whole whole thing with noise  
my mother oh she freaks out because she's got neighbors that have dogs that don't train them  
and you know we we had a neighbor in nebraska when we lived there that had uh brittany spaniels  
and they're very high strung animals to begin with  
but uh  
yes  
we do have a pet  
we have a a dog that we got from the uh  
well we call it the s p c a  
it's the uh from an animal shelter  
uh he'd come in there as a stray  
uh he's a [pomeranian] and sheltie cross  
uh well he was very well trained when we got him  
uh he's  
no uh  
we suspect that he was hurt in an accident you know got away from somebody traveling through and hurt in an accident   because a dog that looks as good as he does and is trained as well is someone that has lost him and not have been able to locate him  
and uh if they were local people they would have been able to find him  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i think so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i guess in one sense we felt that it it's nice to have a dog even though there are you know complications come with it  
and then with our children uh  
at the time they were oh grade five and and grade eight  
so   it was an age where it was uh we thought it was be good for them to have the discipline that goes with with having a pet  
uh  
yeah  
right  
so  
well that's the idea  
i think the reality of it is that they perhaps  
uh it depends on the   on everyone's discipline  
and uh from that aspect i'm short on the discipline because i don't uh enforce that the kids look after the dog  
and uh we've had him about four years now  
uh but i think it does it it you know  
it's necessary that individuals have the discipline to look after the animal properly uh  
yeah  
uh  
actually no  
we live in a in an area that's oh probably about two and a half miles from the university  
uh we live right might say we live right in uh in the middle of a residential area  
and uh so that is not as good uh you know  
this dog being a small dog it's uh more you more acceptable  
but again  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's uh that's one of the biggest concerns  
it's like uh  
there's a lot to be gained from a relationship with an animal  
but the same time one has to recognize the reality of physical requirements of   of the animal  
and the larger they are the more room they need to exercise  
right  
well  
uh_huh  
you have any pets  
yeah  
two dogs  
what kind  
schnauzers  
is it a miniature or a standard schnauzer  
uh   i'm going into all this because i used to i just got done working at a pet shop actually  
yeah  
uh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's good  
they say  
didn't expect that would happen  
yeah  
that's cool  
that's nice  
uh let's see  
what was the other dog you had  
oh a sheltie  
yeah  
they can be [nippy]  
yeah  
[shelties] are nice  
everybody seems to be really happy with them  
they're good temperament  
they put up with a lot  
schnauzers in particular probably  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i  
it seems the smaller the are the the worse off they are  
yeah  
they're bred down so much  
it's  
they aren't the best pets  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean some people seem fairly well suited for   for uh miniature poodles and such  
pit bull  
they might  
they're actually very friendly dogs  
uh they're really nice  
i i've dealt with quite a few of them  
people uh customers that bring them into the shop and ask me like they uh fit [collars] and stuff on them  
and they are they are just really nice really friendly uh kind of like medium intelligence uh  
well because some people uh want to train them as  
yeah  
you really can't get a pit bull from birth that's that way  
yeah  
it takes a lot of training and a lot of abuse to get a dog to really   respond  
right  
yeah  
they aren't they aren't by nature really nasty critters  
they are very determined critters  
and so once you get them going it's not good to to deal with but they i i really like them  
i was i was impressed by them  
they're they're real sturdy little critters  
and they aren't that big   and uh just really friendly  
i was i was   overwhelmed  
yeah  
yeah  
right now  
they picked up a lot of bad press lately  
well yeah  
but any any any [pet's] going to can can be bad if you train it to be that way  
well yeah  
it's when  
in my hometown they just outlawed [ferrets]   because they had one incident of a ferret uh attacking a a child   in a house  
i mean these people had left this infant in the same room with this loose ferret  
the the ferret is used to running the house and was kind of wild  
and you know they should expect something like that to happen  
and so  
now it's like [ferrets] are outlawed in the town  
yeah  
it it bit him  
and that was that was not a good thing  
but i think it was probably a an individual ferret thing because it was it was a fairly wild ferret  
hadn't they hadn't  
yeah  
i mean   they really should have should have expected it   and taken the precautions  
they didn't  
it's too bad it happened though  
right  
do i have pets  
yes  
i have a cat  
and i have two dogs  
i have a schnauzer  
and i have a sheltie  
it it's a miniature  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
well the schnauzer i'm i'm watching for one of uh the managers where i work  
and he's been transferred to germany for a while  
and i'm taking care of his dog  
and uh and i had just got the kitten when he asked me that  
and he says well my dog doesn't like cats  
and i said well we won't tell him it's a we won't tell her it's a cat   because it was a kitten  
and you know they just they just love kittens  
they just are fascinated  
so she doesn't know that this is a cat yet  
and they get along real good  
i said if tom could see dog [lick] this kitty he'd flip  
so that was interesting  
it's a sheltie  
she's real sweet little dog  
she's got a very nice temperament  
uh they're not as aggressive as a schnauzer  
you know the schnauzers are a little aggressive  
uh_huh  
they're a good temperament  
and they and they just uh  
they  
i think they have a good head on their shoulders  
i think they have a a higher level of intelligence than other uh dogs that i have encountered  
well   yeah  
but also some poodles uh  
they're kind of  
there are some smart ones out there  
but there's some also some uh not so smart ones  
yeah  
that's that's maybe that's there's uh some [credence] in that statement  
uh_huh  
i i'd i really don't know   what the best pet is  
i guess it's up to the individual and how they relate to their animal  
um   and bull dogs  
but i don't know about these uh these uh uh these [pincers] these now what are they called pit bulls pit bulls   that are so vicious  
are they really  
i don't think i've ever   seen one  
well how do they become  

how did they get their reputation then  
oh they train them to be that way then  
oh okay  
oh okay  
oh dear  
so the   the poor animal is doing it in self protection  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's unusual  
i  
huh well i suppose you were surprised  
after   the reputation that you know  
they have quite an uh uh [notable] reputation as far as you know  
yeah  
they're banned from in some areas i understand  
uh_huh  
you know that  
they must have just targeted that breed and said boy we're going  
oh okay  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh did it attack the child then  
uh_huh  
well the   the people that owned him should have been on the   lookout for that  
um   sure  
yeah  
yeah  
because then the the [animal's] in trouble and not the person  
uh right now i have um uh two [longhair] miniature dachshunds i also raise uh [peacocks] ducks i have three different kinds of ducks and i raise [geese] and rabbits but the uh uh the dogs and the [peacocks] are pets the rest of them
we we do those for food yeah
yeah
we live out in the country
so what do you have
uh_huh
yeah
that's that's always nice when you have an animal that the kids can play with like that
how old are the kids
huh
you said your from d c
oh okay
i have a my i have a daughter
i think she's in spring field
i'm not sure she's around there somewhere
she just got her a new apartment
and my other daughter and son in law live in germantown
so there
yeah
yeah
so it's it's interesting to talk to somebody from that general vicinity yeah
i wonder what he'd do if he ever got a hold of him though
uh-oh
next time you'll have to try a bigger bird
we have some friends that in fact the ones that we bought one of the dogs from
they also raise birds and they have uh uh
two or three different kinds of of parrots and then they raise [finches] and parakeets
and he was showing me his parakeets
and and he calls them an english parakeet and he said their marking is a little different
have did you know that there was a difference in the parakeets
yeah
you might check uh some of the ads in the paper and see if anybody has an [aviary] that you might be able to buy from there
that seems to be an up and coming business
i know out there where we are
there's there's uh a person on each side of our county that now have [aviaries] one of them is right out there close to us they're in the process of building it up right now i know
uh_huh
yeah
that's the problem with buying them through the pet shops
we have that same problem here too
yeah
but we've used it
we just have two rabbits right now we have one doe and one buck
and she ought to be due sometime toward the end of this week on a litter we just got her
we had uh one doe that we'd had her let's see
it was her second litter i guess the first litter she had she lost all
but three uh babies
and we raised those
and then her second litter she wound up killing all of them
and it took her like three days
i guess before she killed all of them
so we've we had to get rid of her
so i i wouldn't tolerate that
yeah
well this is the first time we've ever had one like that
we had been down
we had gone from having one buck
and and three does down to one buck and just one doe but that didn't work out too well
so now we're we're trying to build it back up
now that's a good idea
no
that one would might get you in trouble yeah
unless you called it dog
we have been known to do that in the past we've we've got a couple of wild cats out there in our general vicinity and you know they're they're tame enough that they come up and want you to feed them
but they're not tame enough that they want to stay around or come in or anything
so you know those are just big cat and little cat
huh
i bet it was they do that you know they they have kittens out there in the garage or out in the barn and the first time you try to get around the kittens
you know it's you'd have to catch them with a uh a fish net or something because they [scamper] away
so quick
did you in
well it's been very nice talking to you
i appreciate having the call
and uh maybe we'll speak again on this little test that they're trying to do
okay
thank you
bye bye
well i've kind of resisted having any pets
because well i had some pets as a child
but now that i have two kids
they're sort of like you have to take care of them a lot
and they require a lot of time
and um [neatness] and plus you know now that i'm married
i have a husband that i do some things that you know help him
and so it seems like i have plenty things to do
and so i thought that if we got a pet that that would be just one more person
well the kids you know the kids wanted the kids love all kinds of pets
you know cats and dogs and things
and i know some kinds of pets are more independent and as a child
i had um you know like a we had a dog
and we had turtles
and we had you know small lot of the small things like i know we got a little bunny at easter a little baby chicken and all that
but they say
you shouldn't do that any more
but um
oh yeah
uh_huh
yes
they can take care of themselves
especially cats are pretty good about being independent
uh_huh
oh yeah
well we just last week we got a [gerbil] that's a thing that i picked for the kids
because they were wanting to have a pet
and i didn't want to have one
i picked gerbils
because they apparently they aren't like you know they don't smell as bad
yeah
oh that's awful
and i don't like that odor and um they don't require as much
but we'll see how it works out
it wasn't as it's not something that um i had to like learn to
something that's going to be running around your house that if you're [unaccustomed] to that you wouldn't like such a big change
and they stay in their little cage
and you throw a few things in there
well we're just getting used to them right now we're kind of just letting you know touching them
and we've picked them up before
but that was kind of scaring them pretty bad
right now
well they they seem like you know they were smaller compared to some of the other ones
but we we i did that i let the kids have a pet
because i wanted them to have practice in caring for someone else
and you know not being so selfish
they're four and five
and i thought it would be good for them to just practice you know having someone else to care for and everything
i know that a lot of pets a lot of people have pets because they make good companions
and friends and
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
expensive to maintain and keep the flea powder and the flea dip and that's true
they are a lot
i guess that's the number one reason why i'm not really ready to have a pet too much
i kind of consider these gerbils just kind of something you forget
because they don't really [acknowledge] that they know you you know it's not like a pet a pet is someone that comes up to you
and is happy to see you
and that kind of thing
uh_huh
um
a long time
yes
and they they take up a lot of you know good space you know kind of like a [bookcase] no
yes
and i noticed um that's kind of what i was attracted to these gerbils for is that they they have a certain area that they use like their bathroom
and you can just um you know rinse that out
it's kind off to the side it [unscrews] and and so you can just take it out with a garden hose rinse it out
and you supposedly you don't have to change all of the the bedding and everything except every three weeks
which is not very often
uh_huh
oh no
it's something awful oh
um well i'm hoping that it'll be a little bit of diversion for the kids and a little bit of a
they do
and they're anxious for us to be able to hold it
but i these just aren't going to be as tame as the book i got a book first they just don't seem like um well i guess we've have them about a week now
and they're just not kind of two
well we hope that we got two females
so that they're supposed to get along better
and they won't have any babies
i guess we won't know unless they never have any babies
well you know the people that sold them go
well it's hard to tell
but we think
and we're going oh great
so if they have babies then we'll have to get rid of one of them
yeah
that's what i hear so i'm hoping i think they have a really quick [reproduction] cycle of only like thirty days or something
so within a month i guess we'll know
well i guess i better run now
yes
nice
what i was doing at at home is like i work nights here
so that's another long story that we will talk about
it's funny that i got you though
uh i asked my wife to hand me the other phone because i was just i was busy
and i uh had just gotten a call
and i couldn't answer
and i said well i will punch it on this one
and uh it's a walk around phone
but it's not a it's not the other kind you know
so it didn't work
okay
no
i'm using a regular phone now
uh if it's a
what kind of phone do they
it's not a dial but if it's a [touchtone] it's okay
i realized that once i used
i should have i was going to go in the kitchen and and punch one on the [touchtone] and i realized that i had screwed up
so it was my fault
it's funny that we had gotten it
uh i guess they want us to talk about dogs
dogs or cats
i'll switch over to birds you know we we don't really have birds as pets
but we should because we have cats
we always wind up with
i haven't yet uh a bird or two in the summer because the cat will catch one
and usually
we will catch the cat because the cat doesn't seem to kill the bird right away
we wound up with a lot of birds over the years
and there are organizations we drop ours off at fort worth if they are still alive and you keep it alive which is hard to do for a couple of weeks
if you take it to an agency they'll send it back in the wild somehow
and so we we wound up because of our cats with with many birds over the years
again
they are not pets
exactly
but uh
yeah
the lady next door across the street from us just lost is it a [cockatoo] what's that one that's white
it got loose i've forgotten what
how she did it
she had it in a cage of some sort
and what they were doing
i don't know
but it flew away
you know
and they called it and everything
and they drove around the neighborhood looking for it
but uh yeah
three
i'm surprised that a bird uh i guess they can find their way back
but i wonder exactly where a tame bird would go
no
no
she never got it back
i've heard stories like this before
with parrots and all this uh because people let them out in their house you know and fly around
and
no
i know uh
but uh i've forgotten she had it outside somehow
and somehow they they mixed signals or something
and it got loose and of course again the animals are so much faster than we are
in one way or the other
uh you know i was telling you
the story about fencing i do like dogs
i i would i've always had dogs my whole life
as a kid
uh
well yeah
i do i
yeah
i do
i think that all the animals have personalities i'm not the cat person
i my sister had cats when we were little
we always seem to have a cat and a dog together which again when you bring them up
i do notice that
they get along
and my wife was the cat lover
when we started out as a young married couple we just had an apartment
so it's kind of easier to have a cat
and then she just never wanted a dog and then we got here to texas
and she's from texas again
and she had this thing with the fence
and i i guess i have so many interests i don't really quite have the time
with two daughters and everything
and all the activities to personally train a dog
but i would i would i guess i'll have to wait until both of my kids are out of college before i can have another dog
i i certainly saw your point with the [greyhound] that there there is a limit to a pet uh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
no
i think so too
uh my wife she keeps convincing me because my parents my parents are dead now
but my parents and my brothers and sisters always had dogs
and when we would visit them
she said you can smell dog all over the house i said well you're really
right
and so i never she always had a good argument
why not to get a dog
and we haven't since we've been married
oh yeah
uh no
i know
you're right uh
people are surprising are allergic to cats too
we do have some friends on and off that will
i guess it's the the cat the short fur on the cat
is uh one of the allergic reaction things like uh cedar trees and all of that other stuff
i guess
the cat has a real fine not the real short hair [dandruff] or whatever they have
people do get allergic to cats
in their eyes you know they just walk in the house
even though we lock up the cats and they're crying
and so
some people unfortunately
of course i wouldn't have an animal if i was allergic to it either
uh my wife at one time said she was allergic to them
i was going to tell you a story
well i think the animals is good for you just because uh it gets you out and everything
i uh
oh yeah
oh yeah
right
i have some friends uh uh that have horses you know
and when my daughters were a little younger you know i thought well maybe that's a good maybe i'll get them you know this is texas
and i'll get them a horse well we went over and we rode their horses and everything
but
and and just listened to the stories
and the money the horse was sick all the time
i don't know if you if you have any friends with horses
but they get all kinds of eating disorders if they don't if they don't eat the right kind of grain or if you if you give him an orange or something you nearly kill it
i mean it it the stories he would tell
it must have cost him a couple hundred dollars a month
of course he had several horses we were shocked at different things
i thought my god
and i just saw something interesting in consumer report they talked about animals
and they compared you know whether you should have a bird and the pricing and it had a comment on a horse something to the effect of you don't even want to know what
it cost to keep a horse you know
and i
well i think the best thing in the world is to rent them
i think that uh
that and boats
probably the same way
i'd love to have a boat
but i think i'm not too sure
i i would get that much use out of it you know
my goodness
what
my goodness
yeah
yeah
plus i'm not too sure
yeah
i think they are experiments too
and they don't know that much
my sister spent a lot of go ahead
huh
huh
my goodness
yeah
oh yeah
they're they're a problem the different rainy seasons here
i don't how long you been here in in the area
oh so you were here before
okay
oh really
yeah
oh really
oh
oh
you don't have one
i have a cat and a dog both
yeah
yeah
no
i have
i have a house that uh has a a fairly good sized yard and i i also i'm here at by at night by myself because my husband works at night
and so i i wanted a dog for protection
and we got a dalmatian
yeah
and he
he's wonderful because uh he's really protective
and uh that was probably our main reason for getting him
but oh he loves the cat the uh sam our dalmatian loves the cat
but the cat just really doesn't care about the dog at all
you know he'll flap at him and [hiss] at him and everything
and the cat stays in all the time
so that's a uh you know barrier there
but huh
yeah
it is
friendship yeah
yeah
oh sam is very loving if if one of us are out in the yard you know he wants to jump and play and [lick] a typical puppy type atmosphere
although he's almost two years old
but um yeah
the cat is a lot of companionship he just he's real old
and he kind of [lays] around just wants you to pet him
and and that kind of thing
no
not at all
not at all
no
my mom has a cat though that does that
and that's kind of weird
we haven't figured that out yet
yeah
just [intuition] or something instinct uh_huh
yeah
i've i've never had any of the ones that you just mentioned
i have had a rabbit
it was pretty interesting
and it was like a cat it stayed in the house all the time
and it used a litter box
so it had free run of the house
uh not not to strangers not to strangers at all
matter of fact it would run and hide
but after it got to know you
it was funny because it would jump up on the couch and sit right next to you
you know
and it kind of pants
i didn't know a rabbit [panted] but they pant kind of like a dog
and it's kind of funny because you can just sit there and pet them and my rabbit got real large
i think he was thirteen pounds
so he was really big
that was kind of funny looking
but he was a good guard
yeah
at he heard every little noise and you could tell when a car drove up or anything
oh no no no i don't think so
no
nothing like that
okay
thanks
okay
one very old fat cat
[prissy] and that's why pat won't ever let me have a party at my house
that's right
she does shed a lot of fur she's we've had her for a long time
we used to have a spitz that kind of got deposited on us when a cousin was getting a divorce
and we were supposed to keep her temporarily for about twelve years
usually we've had dogs or cats
yes
yeah
i'm reaching that point too
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i'm thinking of a next time about going back to a dog though because the cats really do shed a lot
you just never get rid of the cat hair
and i know there are a lot of dogs that are pretty clean and don't shed
so emily wants a dog a lot of her friends
have little house [mops] kind of like yours
uh_huh
but do you have to let him outside for all his business and all
yeah
you see that's what would be hard for us
since
we're not there a lot
uh_huh
yeah
i think jay would go bananas over that though he likes for our house to be as secure as possible
uh_huh
uh_huh
that can be so [therapeutic] though
when when i really want to just crawl into a shell i think wouldn't it be nice just to lay on the bed and pet the cat
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and i really i i don't think i'm prejudiced since i've had both but i think cats are more prone to really have personality
i mean they own you rather then the other way around
and i really do believe that i get a kick out of seeing my seventy seven year old aunt with her animals and she had a cat get killed not too long ago
and she said no more you know i just i can't go through that again
and it wasn't three months before she had another one
and just [adapting] to it just like she always had
and it's really neat for people living alone like you say with your friend
uh_huh
yeah
growing up
it was so funny because mother would always have a soft heart for [strays] and we never back then you didn't [spay] and [neuter] your animals that much
you just kind of put up with whatever happened
and she could never get rid of them fast enough before the next litter came along
it wasn't usual unusual for us to have six and seven cats
and i remember my first camera experience as trying to put cats up on a porch and take pictures of them that were going to be award winning type photos they've always been a part of my life
oh yeah
we had a cocker spaniel growing up
but but the cats were the things that i loved and especially with just being around kittens
and the babies and all
no no dad never would have allowed that
so they always just kind of showed up and came and went and had babies
and we played with them
we we used them as dolls
sometimes we'd dress them up and put them in [carriages] as much as they'd tolerate it
so it was always fun
oh
yeah
that was traumatic wasn't it
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that's exactly what happened with ours
and my brother really took it hard because he was the one who that had left the gate open
so he blamed himself personally although you know there were so many things that could have been different
but it was hard for him to cope with it being his fault
so i do hate that i that's one reason i like cats and critters that can stay inside
because you don't face that
it's hard
especially if you really do get attached to them
i'm i'm already kind of preparing for [prissy] dying because she's pretty old and fat and oh i just know it's going to come sooner or later
so that's one reason i've been letting emily talk about dogs
because i think we we say that's going to be the end
but i think when it really comes to it
we'll want another pet
she's at least thirteen or fourteen we don't know exactly
because we got her as a young kitten or a young cat and didn't know that much about her she's a neat cat
i mean she owns us
all the way
but it does require a little bit of work
and [housecleaning] yeah
yeah
uh_huh
and you have the trouble when you travel too
we always we board her now
and that gets kind of expensive
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
where'd you all go
no
i guess not
it's not pet related
oh boy
yeah
oh how neat
but the puppy survived and you know my aunt says they do drug them
i just went bananas when she told me that that was a fact that she had shopped [kennels] and vets and that they all very lightly sedate them so that they sleep a lot
and that just
gave me the creeps because i you know i just hate to think they did that to anything or anybody
but she said every [vet's] office
okay
good morning
now do you have any pets
three dogs
my goodness
what kind of dogs
do you have
heinz fifty seven my goodness gracious that uh gives you a lot of work doesn't it
uh_huh
well i my dog uh was just sort of a mixture of two
and i can't tell you the kinds any more died about uh six or eight months ago
and uh her name was gena and she was a very very sweet dog we loved her very very much
but the pet that is of great interest that maybe uh you would enjoy hearing about
about um twenty five twenty six years ago my brother in law showed up in my front yard pulling a trailer
and in this trailer he had a pony which i didn't know he was bringing and so over the weekend
i had to go out and find some wood
and and put up some kind of a structure to house that pony because he a [stall] because he brought the pony to my children and that pony lived with us for about twenty five years
and uh the his name was sandy and he was a champion [jumper] in chicago it turned out that my brother in law's daughter had had ponies in a at a certain place out there and it caught on fire
and they they got out there and got all the ponies out and these people were so happy that they gave her this pony for saving the rest of them
and as i say we had sandy for about twenty six years
he has his own little house back there
and um two acres of ground to
no
he died about a year ago
he was thirty one years old
which is very old for a pony you know
he was a medium to large size pony and uh i used to know the different uh [breakdowns] yeah
and uh he was really a nice guy
i really can't complain about sandy
you have two horses
well tell me what what what things do you do with those those horses to enjoy them
oh okay
you you ride them uh_huh
uh_huh
my goodness
you are a busy lady with two ponies and three dogs
i'm afraid the cat would be scared to death
i'd i have i have a cat a pony a cat pony i have a cat also
whose name is babe and it used to be in the old days i had uh mothers and father cats you know
and then we'd have a of six or eight in the litters around and so forth
and this is the only one that's left from the whole big batch that uh lived through the years when my children
were at home now the pony has died the dog has died
and the three children have moved out and have their own homes and so my wife and i and babe are the ones left on the farm now
we are so busy right now trying to take care of ourselves
that uh i don't know how we can handle any other pets
right now if things ever calm down why we'd like to have pets again i i enjoyed uh gena she was a very sweet dog
but i hate to have her she was an outside dog
and i hated to have her on a chain all of her life
but that's basically what she had to do
we could let her loose and let her run oh for an hour or two every day
but we had to make certain she didn't get off the property or get up to the highway and
uh_huh
uh_huh
well mine mine have always slept outdoors
and well they had their own house
uh_huh
yeah
they certainly depend on you
but uh my dog gena as i say she had her own house
and she was warm and comfortable in there and other times why she could go in the in the barn with the pony and they got along fine
so they had their own great big house back there
i have several acres of ground that i normally planted corn
so i have a big enough building back there
i had to build a new building to put the pony in the little one i built only lasted about two years
and so he had to move into his new castle yes
and he had the works
so i'm sure that uh sandy had a a good life he was fed twice a day and had his own two acres to
i have uh just uh one dog
she's a ten month old puppy um cocker spaniel and uh just has been real enjoyable although i think it's just as much work having a puppy around as it was a baby
i think
really
at times i know i can just pick up and leave when i need to you know which is one thing you can't do with a baby
but um you know she's had to be potty trained and and the whole work
and uh it's just been it's been nice though because uh we used to have a an older dog
and she died at about the age eleven
and was our first real baby as such
because we didn't have kids yet
and uh so she was our pride and joy and when she she got sick
and died
it was kind of like an empty hole was in in our family because the our two girls that we now have got real close to her
and so it was um hard though to replace her
i think it took us a couple of years before we replaced her
yeah
uh well we were in the middle of moving uh shortly afterwards anyway
and we both just didn't feel my husband and i didn't feel like we could take on the the time that it really takes to raise a dog right to the first you know few months of their life is just as important like it is a kid if you want a good dog afterwards
so we waited and it was about two years before we were emotionally ready to get back
into that kind of um realm of life
oh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well it takes our vet probably said seven to nine months
uh is the real time you really want to put into them for the training as far as the initial training and he said if you give them just that much then the rest of their life with you
is just going to be real nice
and
no
i never have um she could do better
i'm sure on some things
and um i know it's still not to late to do that if i really feel like i need to
but i just need to give her time
um you know working with her
and i know how to do that
pretty much on my own it's just a matter of disciplining myself on making sure we cover a few things
but she knows the real basics she's potty trained and she uh comes when we call her
and she'll roll over
and she'll sit and she'll put her foot up to shake hands
yeah
so i mean she can do some of the basic things that kind of are needed
and some for just for frills and uh but i don't have her trained when it comes to staying real good yet
and uh not real well about keeping her from jumping but i think some of
that's just [puppiness] too that um i'm kind of working just waiting a little bit to make sure i don't push something too too hard on her
yes
yeah
yeah
yeah
just started doing it with little pieces of cheese and boy the dogs really even at the age of ten i would just still be teaching them new tricks just as long as you give them something to look forward to
i mean they love the [hugs] and kisses
but the the food really
seems to [meld] it all together real fast
and um i have for just bits and pieces
i've never seemed to be too long with a cat when i was a kid they'd always run away
and then when i was a [grownup] i was with living in an apartment as a college student
and uh then i got my own first and only cat
and she was precious
but when i needed to move back out and back to home i had to leave the cat behind
so um i've never had a cat for very long
oh really
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's right
that's right
uh_huh
that's right
that's right
and cats do seem to have the realm the roam of the world
so
yeah
yeah
so um well i think you should go back and try to take in a dog again
you could even go and adopt one that's already past [puppyhood] and uh if you
well what kind of pets do you have
are you're married
newly married
oh
so what else only we started off ours with we had we had pets before we had kids
that's why i thought when you were saying you know we're going to have one in two months or something perhaps that you were newly married
hm
that's easier
are you going to get a dog
that's what that's what we have is two dogs
big dogs
well our first
at first they were our child [substitutes] before we had our children and we got one right after we got married we both decided we needed a dog we went to the pound and we got this mutt
and he's been it was alright
before we had our kids
it was he's just he's a real hyper dog he barks and and jumps a lot
so we had him for a year and then my husband decided after we had him a year that he'd wanted for his entire life to have a siberian husky
and i think why didn't you tell me a year ago when we got the other dog that this was your dream of your life to have a siberian husky
so we got the other one for him
and to keep the first one company when we were at work all day
so we have the the the older dog's a male and he's oh gosh
he weighs about forty pounds
and then pepper is a year younger
and she weighs about seventy pounds
so we have two massive dogs go through lots of dog food
absolutely
i never wanted my husband wanted indoor dogs because he'd grown up with them
but i can't stand it indoors i don't they shed
and you know the mud and
oh yeah
for me dogs are meant to be outside
goodness
oh my goodness
they're going to run you down
goodness
and all of them were in the house
hm
i see
oh
when i was growing up my folks we had fox [terriers] which are little bitty they weigh about ten pounds
and so we had we had one for a long time
and then oh gosh
when i was about ten or eleven i guess my parents decided that dogs would be a good way to teach [reproduction] so then they went out and got a female
and then we started having puppies and she had she had four or five litters
she always had to look we always kept them in the house when they had the when she when the babies were little
and the rest of the time they were outside
they had we had a big uh kind of a play house and part of that was their dog house
it was kind of [cordoned] off
so they had a place to stay out there
and then they had the yard and they had a little run that uh they kept them in when we were trying to do stuff in the back yard and didn't want them out
but we had the same kind of situation at one point in time we had the mother the one of her last her next to last litter we kept we had one one we never could get rid of he was a real dumb dog nobody wanted him the puppy was just one of these dogs
just as dumb as a stick and we have him
and then our she had another litter we didn't think she was we thought she was too old to get pregnant again turned out she wasn't
and uh she had her litter i guess her last litter had like four and two of them survived and then she didn't make it
two days after they were born she had a she died she had some kind of an [infection] from it all she was just too old
we had to feed the puppies we had to get up night and day with just like with a baby
yeah
and bottle feed them
weren't they messy too
well did she did the mother survive
so you could still feed it
but she kept them clean
oh she didn't
oh no
that was like oh boy they are so messy when they're little too
we were giving them a bath about every other bath at least once a day
but they were so horrible
they would roll and everything
and oh
yeah
and crawl through it
i guess i had fish for a while when i was a kid too
i had a fish tank
and i had a few until
well it wasn't really an aquarium it was an old you know how you used to have these um this was a box and it was originally
it was made like an aquarium i guess except it was smaller it was its original use was to put in the refrigerator on the shelf had a little [spigot] at one end
that you could get water out of it you know keep cold water
we outgrew the need for that
and so i used it for an aquarium it worked
except the fish could swim it wasn't tall enough i kept if i didn't keep the lid on it
the fish would uh swim out and flop on the floor
sometimes flip out of the thing
yeah
those have been
i mean
and our dogs now our dogs with our kids
i have two little kids three and a half
and one and a half
so we built the dog run down the length of our uh back yard because the kids were i mean we couldn't even let our older son until he was about two
i guess he was two when we built the dog run
we couldn't let him go out in the back yard because it was
we have a deck with a rail and he could go on that
but the dogs were so big
and he was so little you know they just even walking by him they'd knock him down
and the whole back yard had [poop] in it all the time
it was a mess for the little one
so now we have a back yard and a dog run
oh that'll be nice
yeah
back and forth
three and a half year old
yeah
yeah
or probably he or she is old enough to where they won't tease it too you know poke on it too much
yeah
course our kids have gotten over it with the dogs behind it
they have the run it's kind of like a wire run
so they go the first thing they do is they go out there and play with them
but boy the little one still he just wants to poke my older one our older son's pretty good about it
he'll pet the dog you know
and and he's three and a half like you're saying
and he he's pretty good with them and with other people's dogs and cats that he runs into but boy the little one still just wants to poke and and see if the dog will back off you know
and
yeah
yeah
i think it is too
yeah
i think if we didn't have pets
if we didn't already have our dog and cat now we wouldn't get them because the kids are so little
i think when they're really little
like the eighteen month old it's not fair to the animal the kids are so miserable to them
if they're out very much
yeah
and not get mad at the kid that's the other thing too that i i always felt pepper the siberian husky is really sweet she can i think the kids could walk up and they could literally probably stand on her back and she wouldn't even she'd kind of look at them like what are you doing now she's real good [natured] about it
yeah
well i think that's about all my pet stories right now
so
okay
well it's been nice talking to you
oh really
oh what kind was he
okay
yeah
i got a dog
and uh-oh
she's about she'll be three in february
yeah
yeah
well her name's sam because it's like short for [samantha] and everybody calls her him
really
how about that same names
yeah
yeah
she's about forty five pounds or so
yeah
she's about medium sized dog
oh yeah
oh yeah
yeah
you get up from your chair and she [hops] in and you never have the heart to kick her out because she's too friendly
yeah
yeah
she loves to go in cars
she's pretty good too
yeah
she just [curls] up in the back and falls asleep
yeah
well she sheds a lot
so we're we're constantly sweeping well she doesn't like to be brushed though
yeah
i know you brush her
and and she walks away
so we don't brush her much
yeah
that's what i hear
but she doesn't
yeah
she can play frisbee pretty good though
yeah
she loves to chase things frisbee or balls or anything
yeah
did he ever go into the lake
yeah
i don't think sam would she's afraid of water
yeah
she hates baths and she hates the rain
yeah
i've never tried that with her
there's a couple like parks around here with lakes
but they don't let pets in
so she's never had the opportunity
but i don't think she would
yeah
well it's like the first time she might not knowing it was water
but then she'd learn
she's a shepherd and husky
yeah
uh brown and black
yeah
yeah
it's like that's that's she looks really puppy like too
and the top of her is all [blackish] and then she gets lighter as you go down
yeah
i'm in an apartment now too
and i'm the same way
but it's kind of like out in the middle of nowhere
there's big trees and fields
so we can go out and run
yeah
oh yeah
that's got to be hard
yeah
you've got to have one
yeah
this is like one of the few apartments that takes pets
everybody here has a dog or a cat or a rabbit or something
yeah
so they always play together
yeah
yeah
but she's worth it
she's a good little dog
oh really
oh i bet they stained it all over
ooh
yeah
we've never had a problem with sam because we'll go to work in the day and leave her
and she'll just sleep all day and not make a mess
so i guess we're pretty lucky in that way
yeah
yeah
i guess if you care about them
they'll be better pets
uh
yeah
that's too bad though too
a lot of people with pets need a place to live
yeah
it's getting there pretty cold
yeah
i bet it is
oh
oh we got the wind and the cold up here
ooh
sounds like here except colder yeah
i'm waiting for it to snow some because uh sam really likes the snow we take her outside and throw snow balls at her
yeah
she doesn't like when it's raining she hates being out when it's raining
but if it's snowing
only one time before
that's right
i sure do
i was just feeding them all
i have a a large aquarium and excuse me
yeah
it is
no
i've got i've got a lot of fish in my aquarium
and i've also got a dog who is sitting out there in the rain [wishing] i'd let him in
but i yeah it's raining here
uh real far north just north of addison
yeah
oh
yeah
it's raining out here
and i just steam cleaned my carpets today
and i really don't want to let the dog in
he is a a mutt he's part [shipperkes] and part chow
and he's he's real cute
he's a he can turn me into a real sucker sometimes
uh yeah
he has a house
well he usually spends all his time with us
the whole time
how about yourself
do you have any
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh you're kidding
huh
ooh
yeah
that's not good
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
so you're a dog person huh
really
i i used to have a cat
and he he died this summer
but uh i had him for thirteen years
and when we got this dog
i didn't know what to do
it just
i never had a dog before in my whole life
and it was it's really different to have a different type of animal
yes
they do
they're very self sufficient
and they don't demand nearly as much attention or care
yes
that's right
that's right
no
huh_uh
he's been neutered uh yeah
he's just a pet
and he he actually turned out to be a great watchdog too
so
no
uh
no
i haven't
well i certainly don't need another one
i know
well you know i went before we got this dog we were looking around and we went to uh some humane societies and that sort of thing
and they would not allow us to adopt a dog
because we both work
and they required someone to be home all the time and quite honestly i think probably some dogs got put to sleep
that could have had a good home
i mean
yeah
that's right
yes
and i was too
and and also there you know they come out and inspect your property and make sure you have a fence
it has to be like an eight foot fence
and our fence only happens to be six feet
i mean
no
no
that's a
yeah
we end we ended up we got him
it was sort of a flea market that they had a pet store had a little shop setup
and yeah
we ended up buying a dog which isn't you know
really
what i wanted to do
but i couldn't pass the requirements
and i
yeah
and i'll tell you
my dog is spoiled
huh
uh_huh
yeah
i guess we should have tried the pound
but the humane society uh wasn't interested in giving us a pet
so
yeah
i thought it was too
uh it's usually like five minutes
not too long
no
you just sort of decide when you're done
talking
and that's it
yeah
i work at t i
yeah
well i just found out about it through a different department
do you have pets
three cats
i see
oh really
that's interesting
what breed do you do you deal in
i see
oh my
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
sure
yeah
yeah
i've never never done pets
you know as a for breeding purposes
i've just you know usually always had a pet of some kind around we're uh currently we have two cats
i've got a big old seventeen pound black male alley cat
and i've got a little seven pound tabby cat that we got from the humane society she's the cutest little thing
then i have a twelve year old dachshund
that's gosh
she's one of the family
absolutely
yeah
she's twelve years old
that's right
the little dog loves to travel
of course she's dead asleep before we get to the end of the block
and she never you know she sleeps the whole time
but she loves to travel
cats
of course don't care too much to travel
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's amazing
we've never had a cat of course like i said i guess the only time i've ever had a cat in the car has been in a carrier maybe maybe if we didn't put them in [carriers] maybe they would enjoy it more
i don't know
probably so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
could be could be yeah
that our little tabby cat is the only cat that i've ever seen or had that she absolutely hates to be picked up she would rather just do anything than be picked up more normally you know you can pick up a cat occasionally anyway
she just absolutely hates it
i don't know if it's
yes
she does that
but she yeah
when she wants to
of course
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
yeah
she does that
that's true
that's true
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
just tense yeah
absolutely
yeah
we've had our our two cats uh declawed because we keep them in the house all the time
well actually the little gray tabby [wanders] out in the back yard occasionally i have an eight foot uh security type fence out in the backyard
she just kind of goes out and rolls around on the patio and comes back in
but our black cat has never never once been outside and has no interest in going outside you can actually leave the door open he'll come to the door and sit down
but he never goes outside
uh_huh
they love to watch the birds
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
they enjoy that
uh_huh
that's right
just [hypnotized] yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
our little cat just wants wants out maybe once a day
that's about all
huh
huh
uh_huh
yeah
my wife's a cat person until we married
i'd never really oh
we'd had a cat occasionally you know and left it outside most of the time we lived
in kind of a rural area
my wife's a real cat person one time
not when we were together
but at one time she had a total of like seventeen cats
yeah
boy i try to keep her away from the humane society
she always want to bring something home you know
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that's what she does
yeah
that's right
yes
it really is
uh_huh
uh_huh
get a kitten yeah
uh_huh
that's right
that's right
or move off and leave them
oh gosh
uh_huh
good grief may have been [poisoned] or something
yeah
uh_huh
could be could be
no
not if they've never been out in any weather
i wouldn't think so
especially yeah
could be yeah
that's that's too bad
it really is
it is
absolutely
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
[bloodhound] yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
they they are smart
they really are right next door or my neighbor across the street has a couple of labs they're really nice dogs
they really are
i see
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yes
yes
i've seen that
yes
i had a german shepherd that did that one time
uh_huh
i bet she did
uh_huh
uh_huh
that was cheap entertainment wasn't it it really is our kids are all grown and gone and away from home
so our our new family is the you know our two cats
and our dog we never really
well we had we did have some time to devote to them you know but not nearly as much time as we have now
so they've really become children
well all of them are
oh yeah
they are
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
they keep you entertained they sure do
we have a my wife's uh mother is uh-oh about she's seventy seven i guess she really gets a thrill when we go over to see her and bring the dog
i think she's more happy to see the dog than she is us
i can't get it can't get her convinced that she really shouldn't try to feed my dog chocolate though she always wants to do a little [hershey] kisses you know
you really shouldn't feed chocolate to a dog
especially a small dog
so i kind of have to watch her
when she's around the dog
yeah
i guess so
yeah
for some reason she just really thinks that little dog needs some chocolate of course the dog thinks so too
they do as a matter of fact they do
uh_huh
yeah
they love it
they really do
no
oh yeah
absolutely
i think they can read the price tag on the cans
of food
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
now i think i've experienced my first cat here that will not eat tuna we have a cat that will not eat tuna uh_huh
yeah
that's strange
yeah
i thought
yeah
that's true
uh_huh
yeah
that's right
that's right
yeah
i believe this is the first cat that i've ever had that would not even consider eating tuna oh yeah
absolutely
and even beef as a matter of fact
in small quantities
uh_huh
oh yeah
they love love chicken
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
well jeff it's been good talking to you
yeah
yeah
take care of those cats
we do
actually we have a a golden retriever
uh dog
and we have a cat and we have we just got two uh russian dwarf hamsters which
dwarf hamsters lucky us huh
real small
they're maybe about oh two inches long
they're real small
they're real tiny they're cute
they really are cute
uh my son's baseball coach uh had two
and then had multiple hamsters that he was trying to get rid of
and so that's that's where we got them from now we've been assured they're both males
and they're in two separate cages
so we don't want any
we don't want to go into the dwarf hamster business
how about you
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
is
are they very small
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
oh really
yeah
oh no kidding
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
are you
yeah
uh_huh
really
boy that's real unusual for cats
usually you just put down a litter box and that's the end of that
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
really
really
huh
huh
oh
uh_huh
really really um
yeah
really
yeah
yeah
oh that's too bad
sure
sure
sure
yeah
yeah
well we were real fortunate with our pets um when my husband and i were getting married we we had both been married before
and so we were [blending] families and we had taken this blended families course through uh t i s c you know how they have
the effective parent parent training
effectiveness training
and uh so we took a blended families course and linda [hitts] the person who was teaching the course said sometimes when you have children on this side and children on this side you have a you know a mutual child that brings the family together
and we looked at each other and laughed and said we'll get a dog
and uh so i had always wanted a golden retriever
i just think they're real neat dogs
that's a nice breed you know they're real calm and gentle and and whatnot
so my husband thought well for christmas
he was going to surprise me with a puppy
and he was looking around for a puppy
and then um he saw he decided just on a whim i think i'll call the s p c a and he called the dallas s p c a
and he said you wouldn't happen to have a golden retriever would you
and they said you won't believe it
but we had one dropped off last night
and he'd they said he's a k c registered he's two years old
and he's going to go fast
so we thought okay what's wrong with this dog who would give up a two year old golden retriever you know that's a nice dog
something's got to be wrong with this dog nothing is wrong with it
we have had him now for three years
and just love him to death
he is wonderful
yeah
he is he's a great dog
he's he's he makes a real lousy uh watchdog though because he he just loves everybody
and he [wags] his tail and you know he's he's great
he's great
we think he's wonderful
and our cat just kind of you know pays us the time of day when he's in the mood and otherwise we don't see him
yeah
he is he comes in and he goes out
he's he's kind of you know is just around
we we don't really don't see him except for feeding time you know or when he wants when he's in the mood for a little affection he'll show up
yeah
yeah
but so that's our family
and we just you know uh
everybody seems to get along real well
the kids
the dog
and the cat
so we're okay
yeah
the hamsters actually it's the dog that is enthralled with the hamsters because the hamsters
are recent you know they were just last week
and the first night we had them somebody knocked over the cage
and we thought
it was the cat
we really did we blamed the cat and we thought the hamster had disappeared and had been eaten but we found him
he he just he [narrowly] escaped with his life
but he was found
but since then we have discovered the dog sits and watches them for hours on end you know they'll get going in the little wheel and he'll sit
there and just stare at them
so i'm wondering now if it really was the cat who knocked them off the shelf it might have been it might have been the dog
but the cat doesn't seem to be too bothered with them
it's it's the dog that just sits there for hour after hour and watches these hamsters it's it's funny
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
really
out
really
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well we warned them
the kids you know we said you know with the cat in the house you know these may not last too long
but he doesn't seem to be bothered with them
you know he's real content you know chasing flies and birds outside
so you know he's he's not too bad
but so are you going to try again with another cat sometime
yeah
yes
we have two too many at the moment
well we have a um a dog is a golden lab and a um cat
and they're both driving us crazy actually
yeah
just a lot of work
and the kids seem to be in so many activities that the reason for having the pets were you know for them
and they don't seem to have the time to to care for them
so we're at a frustration point with our pets
how about you
oh
yeah
right
yeah
that's for sure
well they're a big responsibility
they're really fun for
especially for the kids
if they have the time to enjoy them
but boy uh it's a lot of work
it seems
that's true
well i i enjoy mine if my husband's out of town
i enjoy having the dog
just for you know he'll he'll bark if anyone comes around or that sort of thing
so it is a comfort from that standpoint
yeah
they do
they um they get along fine
but the cat doesn't get along with anyone in the family she every time you walk by she attacks your leg
and just hangs on
and we've had cats before
we've never had one like this
so i i don't know what the deal is with this cat
no
it was a gift someone gave it to us
for my daughter's birthday
so um
and we you know we had been looking for one
so we were hoping to get one
but this this one has kind of been a problem
we live across the street from the vet and he
just can't quite figure it out either
so it was um from the um [wills] point i don't know if you're familiar with the town
you know just outside dallas
and they knew somebody that lived in the country
so we're wondering if maybe if they were kind of a country outside breed you know
um
maybe they're just a little too wild or something
yeah
but um
no
no
he's not a hunter
he's always liked having big dogs
but um it doesn't work real well in the city with small yard
when we um got the dog we lived out in the country
and she could just run and that was fine
that that worked real well
but now that we're in the city
it's kind of hard
um we've moved here in january
so just not quite a year
but you said you're going to school
what
uh_huh
oh good
oh that's good
well i i bet your your kids do you have pets in your classroom or you don't
a what
yeah
yeah
seems like our kids have mostly had um guinea pigs and that sort of thing
in their classrooms
and that's kind of neat
you know the whole class gets to take turns taking it home and and that sort of
and well visiting pet
you can you can uh have the fun of it without the total responsibility
but that's worked well
right
really
but uh
no
um let's see
i'm trying to think the last time i called in was probably um a few days ago it was cooking or something
cooking
yeah
yeah
get tired of gun control
this is true
yeah
so
do you have any pets
oh
i
oh i guess we have one miniature dachshund
oh i don't think i could cope with that many how how do you uh avoid having your house smell
uh_huh
uh do you let your rabbit run around loose
okay
i i knew somebody who said they were easy to uh litter box train
but she had trouble with its chewing on wood
uh how what kind of a dog
do you have
uh_huh
do they get along
see we our dog hates every other animal
and our we have a couple of children that are are grown and on their own
and every once in a while they will come home for a visit with an animal
and our our dog just about has a stroke
well
uh_huh
well we we kind of joke that that our our dog's about eight years old
and but one son was between jobs for a couple of weeks and was here with a golden retriever
and uh when he left you know we swear our dog's [muzzle] turned white
and then uh our our other son is in the navy and was being relocated to go to school down at college station
so he was here for a couple days in between waiting for his household goods and stuff and with a beagle puppy
and we swear after she left the dog got gray on the front two feet
i don't know
but a visit from uh one of his cousins cousins who uh really
yes
well i think they're i think they're good company
i have been trying for years to convince my mother who lives alone that she would like a dog
she loves it
when she comes here
and our dog sits on her lap you know
and she'll just sit there and pet him and pet him
and i'll say you need an animal
and
yeah
well and i i think they're good for kids in that they can teach the kids responsibility
you know if if you if you have a a kid who wants an animal badly enough and agrees to take care of it
i mean it's a responsibility cleaning up after it
and um feeding it make sure it has water and uh you know just just all that kind of stuff
that's that's good
also uh
but we just have a we we in the past we've had great [danes] which were probably the best pets
we've ever had
oh they were well the first one we had was wonderful
she just finally died of old age
but she was just so the greatest house pet
and uh we were asked when she was probably about ten years old when our our youngest one was born and she would totally ignore this baby
i mean the dog could be laying there sleeping and somebody could carry this child into the room and the dog would just kind of sniff and walk out of the room and would have absolutely nothing to do with the baby until uh she got old enough to sit in the high chair and throw food over
and then all of a sudden the dog decided she was okay
but my husband decided it might be nice to have a lap dog for a change
and now he just really likes having a dog that [curls] up in his lap
i'm ready whenever you are
jim
no
no
i do not i uh i live in an apartment
well well not really most of my neighbors
have pets dogs
of course
i agree
and how they you know the uh the uh health officials let him in the country
i always had pets
when i grew up
oh i had uh i started with a cat
an old you know alley cat
an old tom but i had dogs primarily and uh mostly [purebreds] but uh we had a large yard
and uh we did not have the pets in the house uh they all they were always outdoors
but i had a cat i have a i had a cat uh uh when i was living in in uh pensacola florida uh we had a uh cat that i got from again from a friend
it was born in a barn uh it was they had a a small farm
so there were lots of cats around
so i picked out one and got it for my daughter and uh had it uh spayed and declawed
and we did keep it in the house restricted to the uh first floor
and it was uh not a bad experience
but for the most part
i'm i'm reluctant to have animals in the house
i just i just do not feel that particularly dogs
uh i do not feel that they fare well
uh in the in the house
uh_huh
well i yeah i had a malamute at one time
and uh stayed outside
i was raised in southern west virginia
so the winters would get fairly cold the only problem with it
is that the bloody thing would sit outside my window and bay at the moon at night
and the
it's uh wolf [origins] uh came to the [fore] particularly during the full moon and but i always had uh dogs
i had a [terrier] first
and then i had a uh let's see
i had a [terrier] then i had a cocker spaniel then a then the uh malamute and then the last dog i had was a uh [basset] hound but they all stayed outside
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
right
uh_huh
yeah
i bet
you know the you know the last one we had the uh my uh my father owned a plumbing and heating business
and my brother and i frequently worked for him during the summer when my brother was in college
and i was in high school and so uh this was the only dog that we trained to ride in the automobile and so we used to take it to work with us when we would go on a job pack it a lunch
and it would you know get out of the car and find a nice cool spot to rest
and my brother and i would go work
and we'd come uh break for lunch
and and the uh [unpack] the dog's lunch
and so forth
and the other workers the [carpenters] and so forth used to get just a hell of a charge out of it because you know here are these two guys you know walked in with clean clothes
you know every day
my my of course my mother wouldn't let us leave the house without clean clothes
you know with a dog
bringing a dog on the job
and they didn't realize we were working for my father so that uh
it was uh but the people around here they're you know as i mention them the uh the neighbors a lot of the neighbors have uh pets
of course they you see them out walking every evening
but they range you know the couple upstairs that above me has a long hair dachshund uh the lady is german but uh there are some huge dogs around here it's really phenomenal
i cannot see i mean i've seen everything from you know great [danes] and german shepherds and just really huge animals and how they keep them confined uh the apartments are fine
they are relatively large but to stay there all day is you know fantastic
uh_huh
it's you know it's amazing how they get conditioned
and it really is
well he might be [canvassing] the neighborhood
you just might be the last stop on his uh on his route during the day
okay
well yeah
when i was growing up uh we had dogs all the time
so i always had at least two dogs
i think at the most we had three and uh then when i met my my wife she was more of a cat person
and she kind of more or less got me converted over to cats and that was the last pets that we had uh but we we went ahead and gave them away to uh another family you know put an ad out and had had them take over the pets
uh because we had uh we started our family
and and you know cats shed a lot
and plus they were kind of rough for the babies playing with and stuff
so we decided to not have any pets for a while
uh_huh
oh no
yeah
yeah
well we are thinking of maybe as a matter of fact my wife was telling me that when she was out christmas shopping that uh they had a display in one of these pet stores they had a uh cat there it turned out to be an older cat about two years old
and uh it was really good with the boys i i have two boys
four years old
and two years old
and she said it was really good with them
and uh real real tame cat
and she was asking me you know
well do you think we should go back and get it now
or
should we wait a little bit longer
and i told her
well we should probably wait
but i you know she is kind of wanting to get at least another cat
but i think i would like to go ahead and get get them a dog
i think you know i really do think that a dog is more of a a children's pet
and a cat is more of an [adult's] pet
cause uh i know i i when i was younger
and uh growing up with dogs
i didn't like cats at all
i didn't want anything at all to do with them
cause you know they just don't respond to you
the way dogs do
and uh you know i feel that is something that that a kid looks forward to
you can tell a dog to do something
and it does it
or you throw a ball
and he [chases] it that kind of thing
and you uh know it will play with you
but a cat pretty much just keeps to himself
and you know how cats are
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i agree
i agree
i know that uh you know your yard is always a safe [haven] and uh and really if you have got a dog back there
you are really protected because they will stand up for you
and i i guess i kind of miss that
my dad uh well our our the pets that i grew up with all either ran away or died uh a long time ago
my dad just recently got another dog
and it it ran away
it was a real small dog
and he is thinking of getting another one
i don't know if he will or not
but he wants to get another dog
my mom mom can go either way
she doesn't really care too much
as long as it is clean yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i think probably i would be happier with just an ordinary mutt
you get a dog that is show quality
and you know you got to be real careful with it
and
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that you know i don't want to get into a thing where you take him to shows and and all these papers and stuff
and you have got to be careful and all this and that
not that you wouldn't take care of it any less
but that is just something you know i don't want my boys to have to uh get into that kind of thing
sure
basically a companion and that is it
uh_huh
uh_huh
i can can agree with that
well it was nice talking to you
alright
you too
hi
yes
we
well we have a cat
yes
named bounce actually it's bounce the uh about third yeah
uh that's because when i was little
i had a [storybook] about a cat named bounce and and the cat was uh gray and white in particular
had to be gray and white
so all the [bounces] have been gray and white
we also have a rabbit
named [coco] bunny right
the rabbit is in a cage
outdoors only year round
and this rabbit has been with us for uh-oh six seven eight eight years
one rabbit
no
that's for sure
and uh that's actually all the pets
we have at this time
how about you
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
oh
oh yeah
cute
uh_huh
oh boy
right
yeah
does he live indoors or outdoor yeah
that's kind of
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
yeah
ooh how nice
uh_huh
he's just in the fenced backyard
yeah
well how nice
yeah
that sounds like a good situation that's about how i would like to have a dog
if i had a dog
see our cat is also uh well outdoors and in the garage at one time she was an indoor cat
and then she started to do things in the house that i didn't appreciate no
no
oh
well no
because she's outdoors
so if she's outdoors
i don't want her declawed
uh but she uh she was kind of a feisty little character when she was little
and as she has gotten older
because she's about seven years old
would she
yeah
yeah
well they're so independent
a lot of people don't i
that's true
it could just stand there and stare at you in a strange way in fact my cat right now is just [rubbing] up against the the wood
on the door here with a look of don't you want to feed me or to pick me up and love me yes
you sweet thing
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
so he is sociable
even though he
even though he's outdoors
yeah
yeah
my boys and uh my husband have been talking recently about having a dog
but we don't have a a fenced in backyard and we don't want a fenced in backyard we're on a corner and we look out at a creek and a park and we just you know one
reason we
yeah
i guess it would have to be
and we
yeah
that's true
yeah
well that's right
yeah
yeah
that's for sure
uh_huh
well pets pets really are hard on houses
i mean there's just no doubt about that we've my husband was in really estate for a while
and you know he had more problems over pets uh in both rental houses and houses that people owned and other people looked at it and didn't like the way it smelled and so so that's my main objection
yeah
i mean even the best trained
one you know is going to have problems from time to time
and you just can't really get that that smell out and
uh_huh
oh that's good
when we moved into this house both dogs and cats had been in it
and uh we did not realize that there was a problem
and after we moved in it was so bad that we had to go ahead and uh [recarpet] the entire house
and when they pulled the carpeting up it was so bad on the back
there were so many spots you just wouldn't believe
and uh they we had to have a [exterminating] company come in and they had to treat the concrete slab
and they had to wear you know gas [masks] and stuff
so we moved everything from one half of the house to the other half
and you know then
just took
took that
well actually both
the uh took that part of the carpeting up and then treated that
and we had to stay out of the house for you know ten hours or something
had to do it again
yeah
no
they usually don't
well well so anyway we've had that that was very bad experience
so i don't really think we're going to have any more indoor pets
so they'd have company right
well it really is fun to have two pets together
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
but they must really have fun together
it's it's cute to see several at a time like that
oh yeah
uh_huh
kids
well you have do you have any pets
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
do you have any children
or
oh okay
i see
yeah
uh_huh
so whether uh why do you have a dog
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well mainly because it's just uh at this point in life
i've had to be available to travel
and we live in an apartment right now
so uh they're not even allowed here
but uh when i was growing up i always had cats
and and then uh later i guess uh the last few years that i was at home
my mother and father got a dog
and i learned to really appreciate dogs as well they're totally different types of pets
but uh i see how dogs are really faithful friends
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
okay
yeah
that's true
yeah
my dad i think finds that he really enjoys his dog
he says he's the best friend he has but uh
i don't know
that's kind of sad though
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well i've seen that there's there's a lot of uh you really have to appreciate their good qualities because there there are problems
they leave a lot of hair around and
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
but obviously you find him worth it
or you'd get rid of him
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well not this one
i
it's not allowed here
but yeah
the thing i like about cats is they're more independent you can leave them
and they can take better care of themselves than a dog
it seems like you know
depends
oh wow
yeah
yeah
yeah
they'll do that sometimes
so
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
oh i had goldfish
but i didn't think much of those they they don't have any personality
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
do you
well maybe i better let you go and go solve the conflict there
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh uh
well you have do you have any pets
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
do you have any children
or
oh okay
i see
yeah
uh_huh
so whether uh why do you have a dog
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
well mainly because it's just uh at this point in life
i've had to be available to travel
and we live in an apartment right now
so uh they're not even allowed here
but uh when i was growing up i always had cats
and and then uh later i guess uh the last few years that i was at home
my mother and father got a dog
and i learned to really appreciate dogs as well they're totally different types of pets
but uh i see how dogs are really faithful friends
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
okay
yeah
that's true
yeah
my dad i think finds that he really enjoys his dog
he says he's the best friend he has but uh
i don't know
that's kind of sad though
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well i've seen that there's there's a lot of uh you really have to appreciate their good qualities because there there are problems
they leave a lot of hair around and
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
but obviously you find him worth it
or you'd get rid of him
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well not this one
i
it's not allowed here
but yeah
the thing i like about cats is they're more independent you can leave them
and they can take better care of themselves than a dog
it seems like you know
depends
oh wow
yeah
yeah
yeah
they'll do that sometimes
so
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
oh i had goldfish
but i didn't think much of those they they don't have any personality
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
do you
well maybe i better let you go and go solve the conflict there
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh uh
hello
yes do you have any pets
oh what kind
okay
i bet what happened to the rabbits uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
okay
well we have two dogs
uh [chasta's] the small one that we kind of inherited and then we have lady that gene has been wanting for a long time
it's a collie and she is a sweetheart
and we have two cats
and one of them now lady can go up the steps she goes up the steps really really slow
and she kisses nikki
and they kind of you know look at each other and everything
and then then uh lady will turn around and come back down stairs but she knows that if she moves fast that uh she's going to move you know
yeah
yeah
and uh by the way my other big pet here said he's going to call you tonight
and you have
oh you're kidding
uh_huh
oh
he doesn't have any pets
um
uh_huh
oh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh for crying out loud well
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well we don't have that problem lady hardly ever barks at all
unless she's outside playing
and uh [chasta] only barks like when the paper boy delivers the mail
she might bark for a little bit
uh_huh um
i'll be
oh that's too bad
uh_huh
yeah
that would that would really be upsetting with me too
if my neighbors didn't like my dogs you know
and uh well of course two of two other neighbors have dogs you know
and they get to come over and play
uh_huh um
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well some people have dogs
but they really don't like them
i don't know why they even keep them you know really a lot of people have pets
and
oh yeah
god mine are like my family
at night they sit out here by the door by the patio door and look in you know
sit side by side
till every night
i think for two hours every night
and then we let them in
and they come in
they just lay down but just i guess just the idea that they're in the house with us for a while you know
uh_huh
so
well well that's a shame
you know
and you i know you can have their [barker] taken out
but [who'd] want to do that that would be awful
you know
well that's too bad
but anyhow we don't have that problem
like i say
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well at least you can still get some right
well that's good
well let's see
isn't it funny though
what was your name
oh i'm nola
and i'm in plano texas
it's plano
it's just north of dallas
uh-oh
pets
yes
yeah
i didn't quite understand what you said i'm sorry
we don't have i grew up in new jersey
but it's been a long time since i lived there
did you already push the one
okay uh
yeah
we have fish
that's it
yeah
it's uh neither
my husband or i really wanted to take care of cats or dogs or anything like that
so
and the girls kind of wanted something we have uh well now we have four girls when we got the fish to start with
we had two or three
but uh for some reason i just decided to start a fish tank and set up a ten gallon fish tank
and it started with a we had a real hard time getting it established tried the goldfish
and they were just filthy could not keep the tank clean uh eventually i took them back to the store and started all over again
and i had another couple of kinds that ate each other
so that batch didn't work either
uh there were some [neons] and a couple of other kind i can't remember what they were but but they didn't get along very well whatever they were
yeah
huh
well these were not supposed to be an aggressive kind like that
but they were
and uh i could see them picking on each other
yeah
yeah
anyway i finally got rid of those all killed each other off and i cleaned the tank up again and got it all fixed again and established and i got about half a dozen guppies from a friend
and they just bred and bred and bred and they're there must have been a hundred guppies in that tank
and i i i must have taken thirty or forty of them at a time back to the store two or three different times
because there were so many of them i couldn't keep them down
but they took them back
and gave me a credit of about a dollar each time
so i
yeah
helped to buy fish food and filters uh_huh
but uh then i i went for a while where uh while i was pregnant with our new little baby
we uh i just kept forgetting to clean the tank
and it was really dirty for a long time
but those fish still lived in there
and uh finally
i cleaned the tank out and most of them had disappeared uh and i don't think i've got any males in there anymore
so they're not [multiplying] anymore
yeah
yeah
i need to get a new uh [algae] eater though
yeah
they're still there's about a dozen guppies in there right now
so
but that's the only thing we've got yes
you may
i know
sorry
and so you have fish or do you have
but you don't have anything right now
yeah
it's kind of a problem moving them
you feel sorry for them
yeah
uh_huh
you'd have to do it an awful lot though
oh
oh
does your cat try to run away at all
uh_huh
oh
three weeks
oh
well that's great
we have a dog
we have a three year old dog about
medium size
and she's uh an indoor dog
and she is
yeah
she's like our baby
not technically
we consider her a puppy
i she still acts like a puppy
but
yeah
oh very too active
sam [samantha] oh
oh that's neat
yes
she's a mix between a german shepherd and a husky
yeah
she is really pretty
and she's a good watchdog we live
in a one bedroom apartment
and she will [growl] and bark at strangers walking by or if she hears any
[footsteps]
yes
it is good
it's nice to have
yes
it was hard to find uh apartment out here we live in uh penn state university
and it's hard to find apartments that take pets
so we're way on the outskirts of town
because and we have a ground floor apartment with
like a private yard and we can just open up the door
and we play frisbee and ball
and so she gets some exercise
we go for walks
uh_huh
that's true
oh
that's a good bird name
oh wow
oh
oh no
how many
oh my goodness
oh my gosh
oh they all did
okay  
no  
i had to press one  
sure  
uh_huh  
i think we should have stayed longer  
uh i think what we did was good  
but i think we just should have stayed there longer and continued doing what we did do  
yeah  
i think we should have stayed and kind of helped the people in iraq out now because it's kind of like a civil war going on now  
and it's almost like they're killing each other off  
and there is not going to be anything left of iraq at all  
well i think i don't think it would be good if we were to completely lose it um  
well no  
i just mean that that the world in general  
yeah  
um i don't know  
i think we should have helped the the innocent people in iraq out a little bit more   than rather than just quitting where we did  
yes  
but i think that's almost impossible next to impossible  
oh see i haven't really been keeping up with them  
so i really don't know what he said  
what did he say about it  
uh_huh  
we don't have the money for that  
it would be really nice because i'm kind of tired of driving in pot holes  
i'm sorry i dropped the phone  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh i didn't realize that  
no  
huh_uh  
only in ohio  
i've never been past ohio  
no  
huh_uh  
i've never seen anything out i never seen the great  
i've seen  
i've never seen  
i've seen pictures of it  
but  
i've never been there  
i've seen pictures  
i just i'm a college student  
and um i'm paying for my own education  
and i'm i come from a large family  
and we we we're never able to take vacations because there's there's twelve kids in the family  
so  
oh my  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well um i'm i'm originally from butler  
and that's about an hour away from where i am now  
i'm at [clairon]  
and um it's it's pretty like windy and hilly  
oh i couldn't even tell you  
it's not like a mountain  
it wouldn't be like a mountain  
it's uh  
oh i don't even know  
i have no clue  
i would say it's closer to sea level  
uh_huh  
oh well see um   uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh the farthest away from home  
i'd say five or six  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
now see for me that's a long ways  
uh_huh  
even well like i i'm in like a little town right now  
it's smaller than butler  
and um butler butler is about an hour north east of pittsburgh  
so that will give you some idea of where i'm at  
and i'm about   i'm about two hours north east of pittsburgh  
and uh i mean just this this little town here is basically a college town  
the college without the college here this town would be nothing  
it would be absolutely dead  
because it's completely made up of fast food restaurants  
and and in the summer when we uh  
my fiancee's family lives up there  
we come up here in the summer  
and it's  
i mean there's just no one around  
um well i go home in the summer  
and i work in the summer  
and between what i make in the summer and student loans that's how i go to college  
finance  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um well like i said my fiancee  
no  
no  
no  
no  
um my fiancee works down in d c  
and i'd actually like to work for a company rather than a bank or a something  
i'd rather work for a company and um like be their financial advisor or something  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
take a boom a little bit  
well well what would be the unemployment rate out there  
see that's what it is here too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's even getting hard for the four year people to find jobs  
i know people they are out of school for two or three years  
and they have a job that has nothing to do  
was i supposed to do something  
good  
uh let's see  
so uh were we right in the middle east  
should we have been there  
did we do what was correct there  
should we have fought them harder  
used more weapons equal to their chemical weapons that weren't used  
oh you agree with schwartzkopf who says uh drive on into baghdad  
would that be so bad  
was there anything there to begin with  
it wasn't ours  
we've got to talk so it's just just as well we argue  
i agree  
wouldn't it have been wonderful if we could have freed the country  
yeah  
so other political things that's going on  
i heard mister bush say excuse me president bush say that he uh wanted to improve the highways  
oh he wanted to take the current secondary highway system   and turn it into [interstates] like the rest of the country  
but wouldn't it be wonderful  
and back east   you all drive at fifty five don't you  
what's that  
oh okay um  
i say back east you all drive at fifty five don't you  
see out here in the west a lot of our secondary roads are fifty five  
we drive sixty five  
oh yes  
well i uh last weekend went home to visit my parents  
my dad's in the hospital  
and uh between here and west texas there was probably three and four hours at sixty five miles an hour  
[nonstop]  
have you ever been out here  
how far west have you been  
oh you've never   you've never seen the great american desert  
the rocky mountains  
yellowstone  
uh  
well my college uh thirty six  
worked for texas instruments for seventeen or eighteen now  
uh know virtually nothing else  
uh yeah  
i got my four year   got my b s in general science  
yeah  
i know  
it's a funny degree  
anyway uh i know nothing other than the west  
in fact uh down in east texas   where the company's located   there's streams and water and things i don't understand trees and the gulf  
and it's really interesting  
so tell me about where you live  
uh how high is the highest elevation  
like uh probably  
three thousand feet  
close to sea level  
okay  
uh right here in colorado springs where i live   it's over six thousand foot  
um yes  
when i lived in texas every year i had to drive you know  
i drove every year to the gulf  
and you know so i could have a [feast] of fresh seafood   six eight twelve hours away   you know just just for fresh  
i i'm really interested in the basic concept differences between west and east coast and the central parts of america  
how many hours have you been from home  
yes  
oh yeah  
uh now when i was growing up in the panhandle of texas  
look at your map later and see the the town of amarillo   fifty miles north of that up in the panhandle  
to just go buy a pair of jeans we'd drive an hour  
when i was growing up   now things are different  
and people buy jeans in town  
but uh we thought nothing at all of wake up waking up in the morning hopping into your car grabbing the fishing poles and driving four hours  
yeah  
it is i imagine  
okay  
okay  
i'll look at my map later  
wow  
how neat  
so are you working your way through college  
well how neat  
what's your major  
finance  
well that's interesting  
so uh what do you plan to do with it  
savings and loans uh  
oh that would be great  
that would be neat  
let's see uh so we're all excited in colorado springs  
apple computer is coming to town  
yes  
the uh new employer is in the city  
so we're expecting our local economy to   well maybe not a boom but uh at least recover to where we can all hold regular forty hour jobs still  
uh unemployment runs approximately six percent  
but now under employment i would suspect to run closer to eighteen or twenty percent  
and the problem is that there are no good permanent full time jobs for people without a technical four year degree  
yes  
it is  
okay  
do you have you noticed any new uh trends in politics  
oh really  
no  
i didn't hear that  
uh i think sometimes it's good for people outside  
they get a different uh perspective on an issue and stuff  
so yeah  
i don't see any problem with outsiders going in and getting a little bit involved  
i think though that it should still be uh sort of up to the majority in the area  
i don't know  
on something like that they wouldn't really vote on it or anything though  
uh probably so just because they were under his authority  
and he obviously failed somewhere along the line  
yeah  
oh um i think he's got good intentions  
but i'm not sure if the way he goes about what he does is really right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh i think that they should go ahead and go to the uh fourteen one  
i to me it's just fair you know  
an equal it seems like every area should have an equal voice  
no  
yeah  
diane [ragsdale]  
yeah  
yeah  
they really make themselves look bad  
and i don't know why certain groups are fighting so hard to keep the ten four one  
no  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i  
okay  
okay  
good talking to you  
bye  
well the one i think is interesting is the california los angeles police chief who says he won't [resign]  
and did you hear yesterday that mayor [bradley] said that uh he should  
i think it's i think what's interesting is that uh the political [activists] jesse jackson and a lot of other people went out there and are [demonstrating]  
i find it interesting that uh outsiders would bother to go in  
how do how do you feel about people like jesse jackson getting involved  
well do you   but do you think gates should [resign]  
well well speaking of that kind of issue have you kept up with john wiley price  
what do you think of him  
he's an interesting person  
i was talking to someone who said that uh for all his obvious attention to efforts to get media attention that he actually is a worker on the uh  
i guess he's on the county uh-oh board of supervisors or  
and the the the uh at those meetings he really comes quite well prepared and is well informed and is a hard worker   and is really quite [agreeable] uh  
and that this stuff we see in the you know in the media is uh  
well he's really just trying to make a political statement  
i i find that an interesting element of politics that we don't that that most people would not know that john wiley price apparently is a is a you know  
of course he's got in this this deal of racism and the you know name calling and all this  
but apparently he's a a worker  
uh you may disagree with him  
but i i i find this whole  
what do you think of this uh fourteen one and ten four one in dallas  
i agree with you  
but did you see the map they drew up on uh on how they were going to divide up the districts  
it was it was the strangest  
i'm i'm not sure it was [gerrymandered]  
but the way they drew these little patterns and stuff i i i guess i'm a little cynical of the of the power base  
i i i and i don't quite understand why the power base uh doesn't uh why they don't go with fourteen one  
i you know and you know the it seems to me that what happened in the in the election that a lot of the people they said particularly the the uh i think it's hispanics don't vote because they don't think that they have any affect  
and it's  
i i guess i am disappointed with dallas in that uh the fourteen one it  
i don't know  
you can you can disagree with al [lipscomb] and uh  
what's what's the [lady's] name  
yeah  
you can disagree with uh what they're doing and what they're saying  
but in reality i think they're they're trying to represent their constituents  
and i think dallas is doing itself a [disservice]  
i think they ought to get on with something important  
yeah  
and i but i think even i even those people are  
it's like [pauken] and box and these people  
i think it's it's kind of interesting that everybody's so busy [politicking] that the question is are we getting anything good done  
it's like this whole school issue  
are you involved in the schools at all   public schools this whole thing down there where they're they're trying to um uh you know devote all our money and raise our taxes and better schools  
and and it all seems you know like everybody's trying to one [upmanship] on everybody else  
so  
i i have got to run to a meeting  
it was good talking to you  
i don't think we've gone our our ten minutes  
but i think we've we've talked long enough  
okay  
good night  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we'll probably never know how much it actually cost  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh it's never a pleasant thing  
that's true  
yes  
that's  
yes  
yes  
that's really unfortunate  
it really is  
i don't know if we stopped too soon  
i don't i don't i really don't know what we need to do about that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i've been hearing some talk too of trying to bring hussein up on you know criminal charges  
i don't know if that will ever happen or not  
uh_huh  
which is very difficult to do  
uh_huh  
obviously he's not going to turn himself in  
uh_huh  
true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
obviously human life means nothing to him  
oh yeah  
that's true  
past a point it doesn't make any difference  
yeah  
that's really really unfortunate  
it really is  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
seems like the prices never go down to where they were originally though before before the increase started  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
about the lowest i've seen gasoline in the dallas area is uh i guess about ninety two point nine now  
ninety two  
oh really  
well there's still a lot of dollar five places here  
but you can find some that's under a dollar but not not a whole lot  
that's the lowest i've seen  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i think [mobil] was doing very well too  
well i i assume all the major major brands are  
uh_huh  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
something like  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm not sure either  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
[dead's] dead  
that's true  
so  
well i don't guess we resolved anything  
but it's interesting  
to you too  
take care  
bye bye  
okay  
so i think i think what we should talk about is uh the war  
the war that just went on  
see i i don't agree with it  
first of all i don't believe in war  
and then the united states has this attitude by saying you know thank you for keeping us our freedom and stuff like that  
and i think it's all independent because it's it has nothing to do with the united states  
you didn't gain anything from it  
and it wasn't our freedom that you were saving  
it was just  
the thing the thing that that that i saw was okay  
iraq wants to raise oil prices  
kuwait wants to take iraq out of the whole system   by leaving them independent  
and so when iraq you know saw this they said let's take over the country which is a good idea  
right  
then the united states says okay our our oil prices are going to go up  
and like for example see okay like lithuania right they declared themselves an independent country with a president  
right  
russia goes in there well the main government in moscow goes in there  
and they kick everybody's ass  
and the united states doesn't go in there  
and say listen they were you know named an independent you know state with a president and everything  
but we're not going to go into your country  
but these countries here which you know are you know like in nineteen eighty four  
have you ever read that book  
okay  
nineteen eighty four there are like three big [continents]  
and uh there's just this area like around egypt and stuff   that everybody's fighting over  
now the problem is is that nobody's going to invade anybody else's boundaries  
right  
like their immediate boundaries like you're not going to go you know it's like the [army's] not going to go straight into russia because there you're you're invading their border  
right  
but all the other countries you can fight about  
and so the thing is is that you're wasting so much money to send you know  
it's like how much money did the u s spend when they could have paid so much money for each barrel of oil that was being  
and you know it's it was basically all based on oil because nobody  
actually like for example if uh let's say if you know brazil took over you know [surinam]   i don't think anybody would care  
you know and uh that's something that that has been you know very  
because see the thing is is like every time that i see a war i see myself on the front line and on the other side i see myself again and i've got to shoot myself you know  
i got to shoot somebody that's got the same family that i do you know the same relationships that i do  
and just because i was born here i've got to shoot them down  
and uh but at least it was it was over quick  
and there weren't that many deaths  
now the only problem is is the aftermath   that you're having so many deaths in the border with uh turkey  
well there's something that that the u s did right which is say say you know okay  
let's kick him out of kuwait which was our basic goal  
and uh now indirectly let's try to overthrow him you know  
and they're not going to do that directly  
but the thing is is that they they didn't go into into iraq and say you know because they have the force to go in there and say get out of the country  
you know you can seek seek asylum here  
and you can go there  
but no way are you going to rule ever again  
well the thing is is that first of all they got to they they have to get him  
and and there's no way that you can get them unless it's by force  
you know and then you can put him on trial  
no  
no  
i think i think he'd rather commit suicide than turn himself in   because there's i mean there's like it's like there's no hope you know like what hitler did you know  
you know like if you were going to put on trial you get to live the rest of your life but where  
you know and so um the thing is is that once you've done something wrong which is   you know [internationally] recognized then you're going to try to get out of it  
and the there's no way you know   and especially since he's got inside iraq for using you know chemical weapons and stuff  
and you know like he sent planes over to to shoot the people down that were on the border with uh that were on their way to turkey  
he had a couple of them bombarded  
huh_uh  
but uh you know he's got uh millions of dollars  
like   i think it was like i don't know if it was fifty billion or fifty million which is really doesn't make any difference  
yeah  
but it's just it's just that uh you know you know like the  
we just put our goals in different you know levels is  
like saying you know it's like  
yeah  
sure  
we need oil you know  
and we need it desperately  
but the other countries that you know that have oil but not as big you know like they say you know like when the prices went up and then they went down  
when they took that big dip it was because they discovered another big oil well somewhere in saudi arabia   or something  
well it its an advantage  
you know it's like you're saying okay i can bring my prices up to a dollar fifty a gallon and i'm not going to bring them back down to you know ninety nine cents  
why  
because people are willing to pay a dollar fifty a gallon  
so if i leave it at a dollar ten people are still going to pay  
you know i went down forty cents  
but i went up ten cents  
yeah  
ninety eight  
oh god  
here it's like it's like a dollar five  
yeah  
but still the  
i mean have you ever checked like uh the most money makers in uh in nineteen uh ninety  
uh you can see that uh   exxon and [amaco] and uh other companies oh god i forgot their names but uh exxon was the number one money maker  
and that was just because of of the last quarter  
yeah  
and uh that was  
i mean and what other companies are went up four hundred and some percent  
and that's practically impossible to do now a days for a company to   to shoot up in that way  
and uh it's just that you know people people take advantage of that  
you know like the the companies are saying we're trying not to raise our prices but when you know when we get a barrel coming in at more than what we're selling it for we've got to raise our prices  
you know but still if you realize that uh one barrel has like how much was it like um forty gallons  
it's got forty gallons  
and they're selling you know you know  
you got to pay forty dollars at least and   you know for uh for one gallon  
and it's it was selling like at twenty five or something  
so you're making uh you know fifteen dollars profit easily  
and uh everything  
i mean and and the expenses you know of the war you know it's like uh it's like who's gaining on this  
okay  
because uh does does the u s government own any gas companies like like you know gas stations and stuff  
i because see like for example i don't know if the british government owns shell  
i'm not sure about that  
but the thing is like the u s government got nothing out of it   because well you know it's like the other independent companies the gas stations you know they did  
and uh then the taxes go up  
and then everybody else loses  
but um you know they're just they're just some things that might not be worth it  
you know and and first of all how many how many people had to had to die before the war you know  
it's like transporting stuff and things like that   before you know it's like  
yeah  
sure you know like to to a couple people that died there their families don't feel it was necessary to do that  
yeah  
yeah  
you you could you could never bring them back  
oh well  
yeah  
so okay  
nice talking to you  
bye bye  
i just pressed my uh  
i got one that's interesting not too not too controversial  
i  
you know not  
doesn't matter whether you're democrat or republican  
i i do get somewhat of a kick out of  
because schwartzkopf or the other generals who i admire how everyone wants to make get them in politics  
i think   that's kind of an interesting recent thing that i could think of recently that uh  
i was wondering what you thought about that   making the general uh getting a general into politics  
right  
well i've i've been thinking about it  
and i uh i kind of get a kick out of they always want the hero  
those  
we're looking for a hero  
well time magazine was saying that in essence the [general's] staff was comparing to corporate presidents  
and they said in general generals are more familiar with training that they believe in training more  
they are much more educated than the average corporate president  
and so they really were very positive on a [general's] staff person having a a very much better education than the average uh corporate president  
so i thought well maybe  
well that too  
that too  
and uh you know they talk about the army  
and because of the war  
and why did we win and all that  
and they talked about how the training was so important  
and that's so important in industry  
so you know they're liable to be right that generals generals in the service  
and schwartzkopf uh you know might make a good uh politician whether it be governor or whatever you know  
yeah  
it's interesting how they say that when they're usually the top dogs you know  
everyone has a boss of course  
yeah  
no  
that's true  
that's true  
uh you you pick one  
i just thought of that one when when they brought up about politics  
that was uh pretty easy  
you don't have to pick democratic or republican  
you can pick anything you want  
go ahead  
well i have an easy answer for that oh i wish they would do it is that limit it you know to eight or ten years max  
you know whether that's two   five year terms or whatever  
oh you know you're not  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know  
i do like the limitation of the president  
and i think there is a needed change  
i think the same thing should happen for congress  
i i'd you know  
that would be my answer of an   easy way to get these guys out of there for twenty years  
my god it's ridiculous you know  
we had  
i think voting is is a i think i had one of the subject about voting and uh voting apathy or something like that  
and i think that uh the voting rules need to be changed where you have a little more time  
i can't believe that a country our big votes for a president from seven o'clock in the morning til seven o'clock at night you know  
of course they have absentee which is getting to be more a lot easier  
and i i vote as often on absentee as i can because it's so easy now  
but i think gee whiz you could make it a couple days  
it's just if you really want the majority of the people to vote   then give them a couple of days  
yeah  
yeah  
are you in dallas  
boy i i i live in arlington  
i am so happy not to be part of dallas   when i see those folks there  
i mean i don't know if you like the mayor  
but i think your mayor  
the city council  
the  
what is the woman's name whose us not the mayor but the  
yeah  
the city manager  
all of them need to be thrown out  
i mean they're just awful just awful  
uh_huh  
i know  
it's so awful that politicians always spent consulting money that we put them in office and then they go out and spend a couple hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy consultants  
and then they don't even do that recommendation you know  
i mean it's amazing the money that they spend once they get in  
well you're right there  
you're right there  
uh uh people are  
uh uh politics uh  
the voting is still not as much as you think in all kinds of issues really  
yeah  
it is  
uh hopefully people will get more involved  
oh yeah  
but those are the ones that are complaining i i think a lot  
i see it here at t i  
the guys that don't take any interest in and and constantly on the negative of everything  
and uh   is that right ooh  
right  
you're right  
you're right  
i think they could do more about uh voting  
what are the issues  
i i'm a democrat  
i want to just say that i'm so sad that there isn't a strong democrat  
i don't even know  
i could go out and debate george bush better than i see any democrat doing it  
you know i mean at least i'd like to see  
because i like competition you know  
i think rolling over and put your belly up and play dead  
i'm so disgusted with the democratic party  
i can not believe it you know  
yeah  
yeah  
but i still think in the last ten years  
you know of course that's not a recent event  
that's only my opinion  
i guess i really shouldn't talk about that  
but i don't know whether they're recent events  
i guess they on this uh speech thing they want us to use a variety of words  
how many times have you called by the way  
oh really i i i  
yeah  
i've already got twelve cards  
you get any cards in the mail  
i don't know  
i'm amazed by  
of course we're not talking about politics  
but i am amazed by  
people say they got thirty  
well i wonder why you need thirty [renditions] of the persons voice  
but i'm not in voice synthesis  
but i'd sure like to see a summary of it  
we'll get to politics i'm sorry  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
bye bye  
we're supposed to talk about recent political developments  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they want him because he's popular not because he can do the job  
uh_huh  
i i think they probably have a better education than the average congressman  
he he you know we know he's a good leader  
we know he's a good [organizer]  
the question is you know can he be the man who's ultimately responsible  
you know like what he said is you know a lot of times in his interviews he was talking about you know people asking why are you doing this why are you doing that  
he says i'm following the orders of my president  
i'm not the one who writes the orders  
i'm just the one who follows them  
you know schwartzkopf was ordered to get iraq out of kuwait  
and so he went to the president and said okay here's how i want to do it  
but he wasn't the one that decided iraq needed to get out of kuwait  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well the thing that i'm wondering about is how we get a new congress  
how do we get some of these guys that have been in there for so long  
how do we get them to not get reelected over and over again  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
yeah  
that may be our only answer  
but i don't really like it  
i don't like the fact that the president is limited in the number of terms he can serve  
i think if the president be him republican or democrat  
i think if the president can prove that he's popular you know that he can do the job   then the people should be allowed to elect him as often as they want  
i think the reason why we've got these guys in congress is because of the fund raising rules  
i mean how many of these big campaign contributions that they're running on this year did they get after they were elected just you know just after they were elected two years ago  
basically the people  
as soon as they get elected the people dump all kinds of money on them and say yeah yeah you're my friend  
you're my friend  
and two years later he remembers that  
and what they done is they've bought this congressman for two years  
yeah  
well  
that's that's the easy way  
i think the harder way out would be to make the guys that are in there and the guys who are trying to get in there run on more level ground  
that's what the financing rules and the uh the mailing rules and the size of the office staff and all that stuff  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think a lot more people could vote if they were somehow persuaded that it's something worth caring about  
you know like you know the the recent election about how the dallas city council should be made up that election last december  
yeah  
i'm in dallas city limit  
yeah  
it's an ugly mess  
the manager  
well what get's me is this thing it went down to [defeat] last december by how many votes by just a few hundred votes  
and if it if it had passed  
if these people had gotten out the vote it would have passed  
and there'd be no more argument  
but they're still fighting about it because of the   way the election went last december  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but but this is for supposedly to benefit the minorities  
and all the minorities had to do was go out and get a couple more hundred people to vote  
and they would have had their way  
yeah  
it's pretty sad  
my my position is people who don't vote don't have any right to complain about the way the government's going  
uh_huh  
and and you ask them why they don't vote  
they say well they don't want their name on the uh jury duty list  
that that's where they get the jury duty list is from the voter registration  
i think they could  
uh_huh  
yeah  
in presidential races that's about what they've done  
but they've got a pretty good lock on congress and   a lot of local things  
right  
actually i haven't made any calls  
but i received about a dozen  
i think yeah i have to make these  
but i get distracted and get to do something else  
and all of a sudden my phone rings  
and go well what the heck we'll talk for a while  
yeah  
we got a whole bunch  
i can't remember how many  
well i think we've used up as much time as we're supposed to anyway  
we're supposed to do five minutes  
and that was three minutes ago  
hey well thanks for the call  
yeah  
bye  
yeah  
i think um this is a tough subject because uh when you come from two different parts of the country uh the political views are really different  
i uh i i guess i've had to discuss a number of what might be considered controversial issues  
i guess like like they're nothing i guess nothing is as awful as abortion  
but like gun control and uh day care an things like that  
and there are some very different views uh of the people connected with the program which i thought was really interesting you know  
yeah  
well being in in baltimore see  
maryland is um is sort of um is as as a [hub] of [liberalism]   you know compared to the country uh  
you know very uh in in many ways uh very liberal  
very somewhat to new england  
though pennsylvania and new york uh i aren't actually as liberal  
maryland is a very liberal uh state  
so so where here we have um we have gun control laws  
we probably have some of the [strictest] gun control laws in the nation  
and most people in maryland vote for that you know  
so it really is a different um  
yeah  
that's that's right talk to  
i had to talk about gun control with somebody  
and i talked with a woman who actually you know had just purchased a gun that day   and was going target shooting you know  
and it was very different  
it was a whole   different view  
it's really um this has opened my eyes to thinking you know  
at one time i just sat here and thought well how can anybody believe that  
because i'd really never met people that did  
and now i talk to people that do  
so that's it's really interesting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
isn't it funny  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
well you can [possess] them here too  
but they have to be they're registered  
and uh like   uh the the brady bill that's   currently being discussed nationally and whatever is very well supported here in gun control avenues  
and um     you have the seven day waiting period  
yeah  
that's   uh that's  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
that's very true  
that's and that's the   way i guess most of the um the   political organizations work you know  
the same i know the abortion issue with right to life and right to choose  
and and both of them   are both want the extent of extremes so that they don't give anything for a balance   you know  
there's there's always that difficulty  
um i would say i'm probably liberal  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
well i'll tell you  
i i think you know if they if they didn't give as much coverage to these [idiots] that burn the flag it would never happen  
do you know what i mean  
it's only because they make a big stink over it  
but i i guess actually i believe that if somebody wants to burn the flag i guess that's their opportunity  
they're they're they're right in the sense of freedom of speech  
but i would never  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's  
that they  
i think the idea of freedom of speech goes back to  
and i uh uh the the the whole aspect   of being able to display your uh your   ideas you know  
the what the country stands on america stands on is that they can do that uh  
though i would never even consider   it in a million years to do it myself  
i i i think uh you   know  
but i i still  
what the flag stands for i guess to me is   that if somebody wants to voice their opinion or display their opinion openly and if that is a a way that they can show   their opinion then they should be allowed  
uh  
unless   the   burn   unless the actual fire [hinders] somebody's health and well being you know  
but i i think that's i   guess that's i that's my opinion  
yeah  
i guess you feel differently  
uh   no  
but i think that's that's uh it's that's [taxpayer's] money  
if somebody   buys their own flag and and burns it that's fine  
but that that's you know that's [destruction] and of uh public   property and whatever  
no  
i don't know  
i guess the [symbolism]  
oh i think what america stands for is the right to be able to disagree with the government  
uh i   think that's   what's   made   democracy  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well   that's that's   true  
yeah  
but   i think i i    
yeah  
i i i guess   the idea you know they always keep saying like the framers  
um there uh one of the republican the [appointees] for the the judicial bench  
and   they always talk about they feel that this person believes in the framing of the constitution what   the original framers the ideals the original framers set down  
and um i believe that the idea of burning   the flag is is in  
my understanding of how it was framed is that you this the thing about this country is that you can disagree with its government  
and you can display   that  
uh i yeah  
i  
and and so that as a freedom of expression and speech and   whatever i i think that that's viable  
um as long as it's your flag and and you've made your your point i think  
yeah  
because realistically like for you for you you don't think it's right  
and i would never do it  
i i love this country too much  
and that symbol means a lot to me  
um but   i guess it's just one of those things where if they if that's what's something it's a need for them you know  
yeah  
yes  
no  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree there too  
i agree with you there too  
i i the um i i it's i find it you know personally disgusting  
but   i don't think that i don't think that uh we   have a right to stop somebody from that you know  
the same i don't know  
i guess i get i get uh all   mixed up inside when   yeah  
it when it's uh it's an emotional issue  
and you sit  
and you try and think   about it logically  
and and and you know you try to say to yourself now emotionally this is a disgusting thing  
uh but logically um  
even you know for instance the pro life pro choice movement uh you know  
i don't know anybody that actually supports abortion  
but they   would vote pro choice  
because you know that's just a disgusting thing you know  
somebody  
an abortion means it's somebody's in trouble and that it's an awful thing   you know  
but  
yeah  
but   it that's uh that's what i mean  
see  
but but realistically when you think of it it just sounds like such an awful thing  
and it [evokes] an emotional response  
i think that's the hardest thing  
i don't know if i could ever be a judge because   some   things   emotionally   just   aren't   you know  
no  
no  
i think the um  
sometimes i guess  
what did i read recently  
the um the uh christian uh point   is is always the point of well it's at conception  
but then um a friend of mine's a doctor and [argues] with others that conception is a biblical term  
and there's no concept of conception in medicine or biology  
so then that so that throws out that idea makes it a religious discussion then  
so it's  
i   don't know  
it's very it's it's uh you know it's a it's a [topsy] [turvy] world  
and it's really something how um political   ideas and viewpoints within one country can vary so much and also within um   within   a  
yeah  
and   how yeah  
how it'll sway from one one extreme to another  
uh i think that uh you know i i just read something i think in time magazine uh about um protest  
uh_huh  
well now you you say two different parts of the country  
what are are are you referring to yourself  
or  
uh_huh  
uh well of course you talk gun controls down here in texas  
and you're asking to be [lynched]  
uh_huh  
well it's very true  
now i'm a uh new yorker by birth  
although i claim florida as my home now uh  
i have two sons living down there  
but i also have two sons living elsewhere   one in tennessee one in mississippi  
but i lived in in florida for ten years  
and i kind of like it down there  
but they had a gun control law which went a little bit too far  
i think uh  
well in your words   they were a little bit too liberal  
i mean they they i believe if i'm correct i believe they permitted their carrying concealed weapons  
but   they uh quickly did away with it  
i think in the next session they they uh modified it  
but it's still legal to own or [possess] weapons in uh uh florida  
the   the one week uh seven day the delay  
uh_huh  
well   i don't   mind that too much  
i'm i'm with the n r a myself  
and uh uh really the only objection we have is uh you you give a little  
and next thing you know somebody's trying to take more  
yeah  
well   then tell me  
do you consider yourself a liberal  
well let   me ask you this then  
how is your what is your feeling about uh uh expressing yourself by burning the american flag  
huh  
well now wait a minute there  
you just said it  
it's their right by freedom of speech  
what does speech have to do with   burning a flag  
now uh well i i still   go   back   to  
then would you [condone] the burning of the capitol building  
uh then you don't draw a line between public property and uh uh uh what a public uh symbol  
uh yeah  
but   here   again   i go   back to the second amendment  
you can disagree   by freedom of speech   which   has nothing to do with action  
now   i   am   i   am   [adamantly]   against that  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
well here again we uh  
even though you uh physically you agree with me   you   you wouldn't do it yourself  
nevertheless you maintain that it's it is the right of of any citizen   to burn the symbol of their country  
uh um so long as it's their possession  
ok you're you're that's fine up to there except that uh what that flag [symbolizes] is uh uh is this country  
and i used to know as a boy scout  
but all i remember was the red in the flag represented the blood that was shed to to create this country   and to maintain it  
and to me that's uh uh black eye to every man that ever uh carried a weapon or killed for his country  
uh_huh  
it's   it's very easy to do  
uh  
uh_huh  
well   i think it should be permitted under certain   circumstances     uh_huh  
huh  
well   tell me  
has   it   ever been decided when when is a uh [fetus] a human  
huh  
or   they  
on their within the own uh society   it can   vary  
uh_huh  
well let me just start by asking what you think of this middle east affair we've got going on  
i have to agree with you there  
i uh i think that uh for once we should we shouldn't even be at at these mid east talks because with the exception of our hostages we really don't have too much of a uh real we shouldn't have too much of a real interest in deciding who's land it is  
just let these people fight it out  
you know we've got so many domestic problems  
and and what does it cost these people over there you know  
oh so how about the soviet union  
what do you think's going to happen there  
the break ups  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
well all i've seen  
reagan obviously wasn't too concerned with the domestic side of of of his political affairs  
i i think bush's kind of followed suit  
um international is important  
but uh we've got a budget deficit that just won't go away unless it gets seriously addressed  
uh you know and then there's the homeless issue  
and there really is a lot we could be doing [stateside] without uh hurting our international aspects or [straining] any international relations i think  
and we wouldn't have to spend the billions and billions of dollars each year that we're spending  
right  
i agree  
we've been writing off way too many bad debts   uh country bad debts   exactly  
i know it  
right  
that's right  
you're either liberal or you're conservative  
well i think uh it wouldn't hurt  
and i know the independent [party's] been trying for years to get a a a real force in in the uh in congress  
but uh you're right  
there's just too many issues that come up that uh our senators and our congressmen vote on simply because it's a democratic issue or it's a republican issue  
and if they would vote with their conscience and with what their constituents feel i think uh we might have a a lot better a lot more efficient running government and a lot better laws passed  
he's one of the two huh  
well let's see  
senators are in for six years right  
and uh when did you guys vote him into office  
oh you're stuck  

i think that it's time that we concentrate more on what's going on within our own borders than what's going on in the middle east  
i agree  
absolutely  
i think that's great  
um i'm glad to see that  
but i again i don't want to see us pour a whole lot of economic aid into the soviet union without a uh well uh a whole lot under any circumstances because i i don't know  
i'm i'm a believer in the old [adage] that if somebody earns something it's worth more to them than if you give it to them  
and so i'm i'm not much in favor of it  
but i'm glad to see us [advising] them  
that doesn't seem to cost a whole lot of money  
but i'm ready to have a president elected that at least has some sort of a domestic agenda  
even if it doesn't work at least he is somebody who who is working on that problem  
and i i haven't seen that in the last eleven years  
so   they don't seem to have a clue  
oh i agree  
i just i think we got once we started economic aid overseas we have really set ourselves up to be sort of the the world bank and   as far as aid is concerned  
and i think there's a limit  
and we passed it a long time ago  
yeah  
that's another thing i don't understand is is is things like selling technology and uh even military hardware to foreign governments and then forgiving their debt  
to me that just doesn't make any sense  
as as much in debt as we are  
i just i don't know  
i think it's definitely time for a change  
but i don't see anybody  
i don't understand too why we have to have democrats and republicans  
and it's either one way or the other  
this   it seems to be we're turning into a black and white society  
you either do it this way  
or you do it that way  
and there's no in between  
and that uh it obviously isn't working  
oh yeah  
oh i agree with you  
well of course you know we have the national [embarrassment] in our state [jessie] [helms]  
and uh as soon as as we can get  
of course it seems to me that every time he opens his mouth he he just lines up people against him  
so   it's not too it's not too often that you see him [swaying] too many opinions  
he's uh usually on the ninety eight to two side  
he's the one of the two that votes  
yeah  
he's   very [ineffective] i think  
right  
oh unfortunately nineteen ninety  
yeah  
we're stuck with him for   a little while longer  
but uh unfortunately for him but maybe fortunately for us his health is not great  
so i hate  
i haven't uh talked to anybody outside the metroplex  
so i didn't even think of saying arlington texas  
this is a real first  
are you at work  
i i i've been trying to get people at five thirty and six thirty in the evening  
and i thought well i'm not having any luck  
i'll try the middle of the afternoon  
i am too  
well do you have any uh opinion on the subject  
democracy  
oh  
oh sure  
we uh we hear a little of the news uh  
yeah  
i have heard about that the last couple of days  
how how big is the ukraine the area  
do you know  
or a population or anything  
i'm really [uninformed]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
oh i i didn't really know that  
i know a lot of their oh their countries that they had [overtaken] or wanted to be independent or several of them right  
and uh what about [astonia]  
are they  
right  
i thought they were  
but but the the ukraine is especially significant because it of the agriculture  
uh so there were probably really fight to keep it in if they could  
no  
they don't  
and bush has already given his opinion on it right  
didn't i read that  
so now uh not that they may that may matter  
i don't know anymore  
i uh fear for the russians from what i read you know  
i wonder how they're going to get through the winter   food wise or any wise  
sounds to me like they'll start [rioting] soon or not that that would do any good  
but i guess people do that when they're desperate  
well that's true  
since the depression  
i guess when the veterans went to washington  
and well you know the war riots of course  
let's just hope we don't get to that point  
things are not so good in texas job wise  
well we do  
we have lots and lots of uh layoffs here lot of companies [folding] lot of layoffs  
and it's pretty scary  
well i don't understand economics that well  
i don't know  
i i know that we have a terrible situation with foreign trade and that other countries put a lot of restrictions that we don't  
and so i assume that that has some effect   or a great effect  
and i do uh i mean they said during the way reagan bush years the rich got richer  
the poor got poorer  
the statistics prove that  
so uh i i guess  
well i really don't know  
i think maybe they uh maybe they contributed to it  
maybe they should pay more attention to these trade or you know to the more equalization of the trade  
of course if somebody in in china can make something for ten cents and we have to make it for ten dollars because we have unions well i don't know what's going to happen then  
right  
and child labor  
right  
well i don't know  
what do you think has caused our horrible situation  
one thing  
right  
well they say too that having a democratic congress and republican president is not good  
i mean i've read that is a theory  
well i hate to say it  
but i i'm tending to go straight back into my original democratic party  
uh  
oh i know  
it used to  
right  
well you don't want too many democrats anymore  
and for a while i kind of [deserted] the party  
but now it's looking better to me  
oh do you  
oh i'm glad to hear that  
well i think so too  
i i just admire her a lot  
and uh i i really hope she does well  
but she's uh you know probably more popular out of the state than she is here although she did manage to win  
but look who she was running against you know  
he shot himself in the foot so many times  
how did you get on this t i thing  
yes  
yes  
yes  
i am  
well i'm i'm happy we got through  
well i'm i'm especially interested with what what's happening in the soviet union uh  
the the move to uh   the the the [ukraine's] vote to uh basically to [secede] and set itself up independently   uh is quite a remarkable counts  
is that is that reported in the texas papers  
uh as an area it's not  
i i'm afraid i don't have the statistics in front of me  
it's a it's not a tiny area uh  
if i was looking at a u s map i would say it was sort of reminds me of of a uh  
it's not as big as california proportionately  
but but but it's it's more significant in the sense of it's a great agricultural region  
yeah  
they're completely out now  
yes  
the three the three baltic uh republics got out as quickly as they could  
right  
it's it's very important for the economics of the whole of the soviet union  
right uh  
except they can't fight  
it's done [democratically] uh  
yes  
yes  
uh  
that that's true uh hasn't happened here for a while  
but it uh  
uh_huh  
no  
i've i've heard they're i hear you have some problems  
do do you do you blame the the government in washington for this  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so then you think it's it's you think it's reagan and bush have done this  
or is it just coincidence it was during this period  
uh_huh  
oh the chinese use slave labor too  
that's that's one of the ways they get away with it  
yeah  
uh i don't think there's any one   simple answer to the whole thing  
i mean it's that's very complicated  
so which one are we going to throw out  
uh_huh  
texas texas used to be a democratic state didn't it  
i like your governor  
she's an impressive woman  
yeah  
right  
well yeah  
anybody could beat [claytie] in texas  
oh i i know some of the people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
i have not even heard believe it or not of that person  
i'm not kidding  
when you when you said it it was kind of like a surprise  
yeah  
i think mainly because i haven't been watching what's politically going on   uh in that you know in that aspect  
i  
as far as  
like now the new house bill that went to minnesota uh being that it is their neighboring state and that i lived in minnesota i'm more familiar with the politics that involved with that and that being passed  
but uh as far as politics in the [grander] uh part of it as if you want to look at uh election type things i'm not quite sure even if i'm going to vote  
uh   it gets harder and harder each time an election comes up like that to make the decision on who would be the best to run  
uh   uh_huh  
sure  
exactly  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
he might be a a one of those  
sure  
uh it it's kind of when you think back of the old politics where a dirt farmer uh  
when you think of some of the best presidents we've had in the past have been people that have struggled to get to the top  
i mean they were not rich in   in any means  
and it has been kind of in the past uh i don't know maybe fifty years that in order for a person to get involved with politics they've had to have money  
and you had to have the views of the people that were going to be paying your way  
uh so it makes the common person uh  
not to say that a common person couldn't run for government and do a fabulous job because he's got people that are quite intelligent  
and i don't know if we'll ever see that you know where a common person could ever get in there that has good moral standings and uh has uh you know  
you think of abraham lincoln and you know just the background of   abraham lincoln you know teaching himself to read  
he didn't go to college  
he didn't you know do all the other things that uh you know you would think that was real popular to do and to get politically involved in and have money  
he didn't come   from money  
uh and now it's  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so you really know a lot of his background  
it was the big one  
it's the one that everybody wants  
yeah  
whether or not i you know  
you look at all these candidates that want to become president  
i really have to ask them why you know  
uh it's the toughest job in the world to do  
and not only that you don't have that much freedom to make choices  
i mean you   have to go through so many different  
you have to go the house the congress and all of the other things   to get a bill passed  
and sure you can veto veto it at the last minute  
but then it's not like you have all that power  
and i think long time ago presidents did have a lot of power  
so interesting political trends or events huh  
well i guess the uh most interesting one that's uh going on right now from my perspective is this uh phenomena of uh uh ross perot  
uh caught his interview last night with david frost  
and it was   the the first time i had you know heard uh his views expressed by himself  
i had heard other people talk about what they thought he believed in  
but the whole phenomena of him coming out of uh literally nowhere and no party uh at least no apparent party support on either side is   pretty interesting  
uh_huh  
like out of nowhere  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well it seems that the decision so far has been filtered   by uh you know party politics so much that   when the candidates finally get party approval party support and therefore get presented to the public the the   candidates are already beyond what uh most public uh feels is acceptable behavior  
you know the  
one of the common [criticisms] of clinton is uh gee he'll say or do anything in order to get to the white house  
and and up and to the point of uh perot being a serious candidate it seems like that that was a requirement of being a a contender within the party is to have done all those things  
i mean here's here's a guy who for twenty years has been working toward you know getting the party nomination and and preparing himself for the presidency  
and now it seems like both he and the [incumbent] president are you know pretty seriously threatened by somebody who comes out of a whole [nonpolitical] arena  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and and yet even he was a a [consummate] politician in the sense that uh not only did he uh fail in business twice with bankruptcy and failure  
but he lost some eighteen elections before he finally won one  
and the first and the first and only election he won was uh the presidency  
he he had lost every other office that he had you know  
he was appointed a couple of times to like uh uh state [legislator]  
yeah  
then then when he finally you know did win an election uh you know it was the presidency  
yeah  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well just any any political event or view or anything
well uh in what way
i don't think he ever told them to to rise up against saddam hussein
well unfortunately the the united states as a government can't get involved in a civil war in another country because it's not it's
well that's
i'm i uh the uh the kurdish in the northern part of iraq unfortunately when the the uh mid eastern countries were when the boundaries were adjusted and changed and all the kurdish were basically forgotten because there's a group of kurdish in northern iraq there's some in uh western iran and there's some in southern turkey
and uh
uh_huh
yeah
it it's just unfortunate that the kurdish people didn't get their own uh
well their their own government or their own something
originally
uh_huh
yeah
they've they've got plenty of problems without the iraqi problem
the the iranian borders are still open uh from what i understand um the iraqis the kurdish are going into to iran and into syria i know that the the uh that saudi arabia has some pretty strict uh
yeah
and i doubt that they're letting too many iraqis in
unless the people have proof that they're leaving
that they're not going to stay
then the saudi [arabians] will just shoot them
well they
it's a it's all the countries over there are very wealthy
and so most of the people are wealthy and and they don't have some most of their basic needs for for food and shelter and clothing are met so they don't have any
uh any need that's going to drive them to to petty theft or or to that type of crime
yeah
but those uh those countries are so extremely wealthy but from what i understand though that it's it's the same type of wealth distribution where you have a the very few are very wealthy
but since there's so much more to go around that that leaves the the lower classes with more
yeah
so you think that that george bush's foreign policy is poor because of because of what's happening to the kurdish people
something else done here that would would solve the problems in the mid east or or no
other than than [reestablishing] the [dominance] of the united states
another thing that was good
if you're looking at the balance of the super powers between the united states and the soviet union you know the united states went in and led the battle and and solved the problem
and the soviet union is is a [whimpering] is a [whimpering] country right now because they they've got so many problems that they can't even yeah
yeah
a lot of their their civil problems where they've got their uh baltic states rising against the the uh the leadership in in the russian state uh is the same type of deal as what occurred with the kurdish people
it's the same type of situation where where where ethnic groups were split up and and our
and don't necessarily have the same uh social structure or value systems as the government
it's i it's it's kind of fortunate that that the united states was founded in the way that it did
because it's such a mixture of people
with with for the most part with the same ideals yeah
and and
yeah
and and when the when the united states was founded the people the people who founded the country all had the same value systems and beliefs and so immigrants coming in understood that
and and it wasn't as if it was forced upon them they chose to come to this country
it wasn't as if a a new government was established when they were already here
so well i think we've taken up at least five minutes
i've enjoyed talking to you
well there there's been some interesting stuff going on locally
but i suppose nationally the big thing is probably uh the reaction to the war in the gulf
trying to cover themselves
yeah
yeah
that's true
there there's a lot of talk over there
i don't think anyone imagined that it could possibly be as as successful and painless as it had been
so they figured a little bit of opposition was safe
but it didn't turn out that way
well that's why that's why being strangers is safe we can
that's true
that's true
that's true
i i've been democrat for since i've been voting which isn't that long
but i'll agree with you there
that there's not much organization going on
uh_huh
well that's true
but i suppose it's hard to judge from the eighties because uh reagan was just so overwhelming to them
i think we're seeing some of that [unraveling] these days
but
well they've already got uh-oh gee
there's there's already one candidate that i know of on the democratic end
and i keep thinking there's a second one uh paul
yeah
uh out of massachusetts
i think
uh_huh
i've i've i've heard the name
but that that's the extent of my my information about him
uh_huh
try to get the conservative candidate for once
that that would be interesting
i i must admit i haven't been really enthusiastic about the democratic [entrants] in the last couple of run [throughs] but completely [unelectable] and true
it's it's probably their their troubles probably stem from the fact that they're such a diverse party
and the [nominating] rules these days are so um [pseudodemocratic] i guess you can't have the people in the back rooms deciding well who could we really get elected instead there's so much
uh_huh
true
i suppose being on the other side of the [aisle] it probably made good comic theater
yeah
that's true
that's true
i i must admit i'm i'm i i still find him a little [uninspiring] he he seems like a reasonably competent person to sort of
do do some [caretaking] um
true
sort of set the agenda
and and let let people do the work it's it's unfortunate how how little domestic agenda he he worries about
true
but uh so many of his campaign promises were on the the domestic promises
true
that that's that's what just amazes me though is that that so many people do uh take the campaign promises seriously
well the the one thing that just amazed me in in texas here
there were a series of um ads saying don't vote for dukakis he's going to take away your right to own a gun he's going to close down defense plants he's going to do this he's going to do that
half of which is coming true
here's my chance to [giggle] boy
i i know that the the massachusetts miracle has has gone by
uh_huh
oh i i guess i didn't hear that i didn't go over it really
true true
i suppose
uh_huh
yeah
that really disappointing it's it's sort of
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's incredible
oh oh there's there's one thing i've got to ask you about the the dump quayle movement i find that interesting
i i find him such an [embarrassment] and i mean the the idea of collin powell well he's so uh he's so popular now
i i don't know if he's the the right one to replace him he'd probably be a perfectly competent replacement
but really
i i i i would probably find him an order of magnitude more capable than quayle it's it's interesting to hear that bush has in instead of just making bland [pronouncements] about having no plans to change the ticket has just really [emphatically] come out and said no way
uh_huh
well from from some of the things i've heard about bush he he didn't want a vice president that was any competition for him
uh_huh
uh_huh
well it uh uh i'm i guess i'm the i'm cloudy on the timing
but there there was quite a while when his certain [victory] wasn't certain at all
i'm i'm not sure how that timing related to the quayle [announcement] but he was [trailing] at at times or or just neck and neck i guess
uh_huh
uh what topic would you like to discuss political topic
well i think it's marvelous they finally figured a way to get them out of there huh
well what they wanted of course was one money and two the release of all the palestinians held by the [israels] you know the the jewish folks
and uh i guess they're going to get a lot of those released and probably a lot
i
probably a lot
well i think the developments in soviet union are rather interesting
i'm not real sure how they're going to all turn out
i hope they turn out positively and not turn into chaos
but certainly sounds that way
doesn't it
well i think that's one of the problems of being a mister nice guy
and i think that's what he was and is you know i i think he tried to accommodate too many people uh and in a structure like that
apparently it's a difficult if not impossible task i don't know
europe is whether we like it or not
when the u s s r was together the peace was kept in europe
relatively speaking
and uh there might be a big void there
and i uh it's certainly a fence sitting situation
i i i hope it's not a i hope it gets resolved properly
let's put it that way
with all those nuclear weapons floating around you get the wrong person there
i think we could have major problems
i don't necessarily mean we in the u s alone
but the world
yeah
well of course there's a number of [rednecks] in texas that i'm sure would jump on his band wagon
but uh
but i'm sure the vast majority would think it of him as he probably is uh
well i think the south is not the nation certainly still has many racist type people
that would jump on his band wagon
and uh being a springer [splinter] operation
i'm sure it wouldn't you know it it raises a lot of noise and everything
but i don't think it would probably go very far in a overall scope of things
well well i think it's a i grew up in uh milwaukee wisconsin
and uh i think uh you know it's definitely a different philosophy of how you look at blacks up north as you do in the south
and you know i growing up uh where i grew up in a high school you had one black that was from out of the area to start with
and you know we had three thousand kids in our high school
so we weren't really you know even you know when we played football against a couple of black teams
and you know in that part of milwaukee uh you know they were nothing you know i mean now it's all the blacks that's all in basketball
i i i don't know what uh times have changed
and i i think that's one of the reasons the [packers] will always have problems having a getting back to the status they were during [lombardi] years and uh green bay being an extremely small town
yes
um i'm more of a liberal or at least uh in between moderate more of a democrat
um the economy is is doing badly and bush isn't looking good as a result
well the recession started a long time ago question is is when whether and when it's going to end or has it ended yet
but it's the economy's really not healthy
yes
that's been one of the areas for for for problems in that we've had it more lightly in that respect
but not without without uh without significant problems uh perpetual savings bank went under here
one of the biggest in the area
oh oh it's part of the recent merger uh i'm not sure what what um what that's intended to mean uh
um as a whole i'd rather avoid government regulations and controls uh uh some are some are necessary
and i mean in some ways what we're going through now is reaction to to all that developed during the eighties
yes
that's certainly true
i'm not sure whether it's bad or not
um my sense is that that airline costs costs of flying are still are lower still lower today than they were before all this began um but we can maybe reach a point where there the number in the field is too few
and uh where where government [oversight] uh is needed
i guess i don't know either
but i there is a role for safety regulations likewise in airlines
and i think for the most part though
that's uh continued for the airlines and the safety record today is as good or better as it was in the seventies
uh well i guess the feeling as much as i hear by is that uh gorbachev is is is done for or unfortunately in a way at least everyone [admires] him uh but uh the future is with this this coalition this whatever
it's called infant uh commonwealth uh with with [yeltsen] things would be different
well it would have made a difference had there been violence uh just about the old regime still wouldn't have survived but it was to have been [bloodier] than it's been to this point
the rumor is that much of it has been expended
yeah
i agree
i been interesting to see how gorbachev has uh been releasing the power to [yeltsen] including including the uh button for the nuclear [arsenals] yes
uh i agree
it's uh that's some things that nobody may ever know for sure
yeah
he may but it'll be interesting to see how this sort of loose commonwealth uh works
from the standpoint of uh being as one political entity or whether it's really just going to be kind of a loose [confederation] also uh did uh did those baltic states did [astonia]
and [latvia] et cetera
did they
did they pitch their lot in with them
or
it may be interesting to see how when they start talking about border defense whether they're going to
i think most of those independent countries are going to decide that they want to defend their own borders
well i think the what russia's going to bid for is the seat on the security council but i suppose that all of the other eleven can or the ten others or however many there are can be admitted as regular members of the u n
yeah
could be it could be
yeah
could be could be although they a lot of those existed as states prior to uh to their being a soviet union
so i i don't know
yeah
that's true
i don't know what uh currency things are going to be done too whether each one will have to completely establish a currency based on whatever system or whether they can rely on the [ruble] somehow
and uh
well that's true
probably for any of them
well there's only four states that have any though
only the ukraine and [belorussia] and russia themselves
and then that one middle asian the one that starts with a k [konespan] or something whatever that is uh they're the only four
and two of the four have said they would like to destroy them
it's only that fourth one that worries me a little bit
but they don't have any [intercontinental] [ballistic] missiles down there either
they have short range nuclear capability and presumably not very many of them judging by where that is
russia had ninety percent of them on russian soil
so they're still going to control the by and large the large amount of those
he's been offered a position in the united states in colorado to teach
yeah
i imagine he would because he'd have to move over here lock stock and barrel and he's still got children and grandchildren there in in russia
so or how i survived the august coup but really didn't survive it
let me think a political event that happened this year
well there's david duke and then there's the [dissolution] of the soviet union
yeah
well if i was a mind to i might burn a cross on his yard
thing what scares me is some of the things he says i agree with you know i just don't agree with his methods you know i think that the way to
you know cut out the welfare poor
is not to cut out welfare it's to provide an equal opportunity for people to make a living
and protect them from themselves
basically you know i've i've seen this very close hand a kid twelve years old can make about three thousand dollars a day dealing crack
if he lives to his twenty first birthday would be a miracle so we're we as a nation have an obligation to our future generations to
yeah
to make dealing crack a a crime punishable in such a way that nobody would want to do that
and and our constitution [expressly] [forbids] that kind of punishment yeah
i i'm considering doing it you know
and i got a job
today anyway
well
right or wrong rarely has anything to do with politics
uh what i'm seeing here is that the real problem see david duke addresses symptoms
the real problem is if i work for a man say i work for a guy as a matter of fact i'm going to work for a guy friday new job
and he sells kelley tires
now if i roll in there in a brand new set of b f [goodrich] tires week after next should i expect my job to be there
see what i'm saying
you know if you drive onto the ford manufacturing lot in a datsun i believe that not only should you be fired all of your assets should be given over to the government
because you're [crippling] the very economy with which you're trying to survive
now i believe in free choice
don't get me wrong
and i'm i figure i'm allowed to drive any kind of car i want
because i don't work for a car company
i drive american made
that's just because i'm an american i believe that that's the way you ought to do it
i mean sure having a mazda or a nissan or whatever they're called these days
sure
that'd be a real status symbol but you ain't going to impress my neighbors
my neighbor's driving a thirty year old pick up truck
you know
now the last time i bought a calculator i bought one from texas instruments
because my wife works at texas instruments
and the next time i buy a computer it will be a texas instruments
they they do make better products the scary thing is we finance their research
you know the t i
came out with with the [transistor] they didn't make beans off of it
right
exactly
you know i i have a real fundamental problem
with people who drive a mercedes and have a [sony] t v
and scream and holler about the welfare poor
i really have a problem with those guys
they're as a matter of fact they're [exacerbating] the problem
they're making it worse
i used to work for a guy this summer
he drove a b m w
i i quit him
i say hey you know
no
it was in construction
um i i i i am a dealer for construction software
well you know there's uh the one that's burning in everybody's uh in everybody's mind the uh break up of the soviet union and it's a
yeah
its it affects here at home
i mean it's going to have effects all over the world
and uh of course you know i expect uh in the next few days when uh the president gives his uh state of the union address he's going to have to uh pull some uh real drastic changes in what he's doing to to promote some some movement and enthusiasm behind his [reelection] race
yeah
yeah
well they they focused all of their economic capacity on on the military
i mean if they had focused the same capacity in their uh commercial stuff they would have been a lot better off as a society probably
yes
like the japanese right
yeah
uh_huh
well you know five years ago could you have imagined in your in your your [wildest] dreams that something change as rapid as this would have occurred
uh it's just you know it it's almost [unthinkable] it it is
i i still wonder whether you know that it's going to be stable and then what's going to happen there
i don't think the shelves bare anymore
i think there's now you know i think all the time there were goods to to be distributed that were being held off
and uh you know i i think that uh there's but but you know the the people don't have a lot of money to pay for them
there there's a tremendous uh gap in their ability to to supply themselves
that could create a tremendous amount of political [instability] in fact they said tonight on the on the radio uh that uh some some leader
and and of the parliament in russia is calling for yeltsin to essentially throw out all of his [ministers] and replace them because of this tremendous supply demand uh type gap that they have there
uh i don't know
it it's it's hard to imagine managing such a rapid change
well
and i think that you know we we stand uh in in the possibility of of of being confronted with a similar kind of thing here
uh everybody is calling for you know this this uh peace dividend and with an election year coming up
there's the uh there's the the possibility of everybody proposing something radical to to appeal to the voters to to to get elected
but you know how how rapidly can they change and
um so what do you think of um the way that the government has has moved towards you know getting involved in people's individual uh lives
um yeah
he's a [commentator] isn't he
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
and so you sort of lean towards like the libertarian view
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and it means a horrible time to have tax cuts at this point
i think you know as far at least as far as our [deficit's] concerned
you know every one
and every all the candidates just seem to be you now have this bread and circuses policy of you know we'll give you a dollar a day if you vote for us
yeah
yeah
i mean your kids won't be happy but you'll be able to buy that that extra six pack of beer at the end of the week
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh
it really wouldn't surprise me if that happens in the next twenty years
and we we are still considered the best credit risk in the world
supposedly uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
we we've been known to spend a lot of money for expediency in things
um
well in it
um i think if anyone
but the japanese had made it if if if an american had said the same thing people probably would have agreed with them
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
um you know we we our companies are have definitely become top heavy
um in management um you know we you know we we you know you know the trend of over consumption since world war two
um you know being that that's what what what would be required to make our economy to thrive the best you know that that we you know that the workers just been given that just moved for better and better standards of living and where a bunch of other factors i think you know is just you know it's it's uh we're we're unable to keep on increasing that you know when when you know when you combine with the [mismanagement] that a lot of american companies have had
and yeah
i think that you know that's really when he says that they were i think lazy probably wasn't the best term to use
but i think you know you know
um probably not anywhere near as much there have been a couple of articles uh which i basically [glanced] at uh but that's about it
i just find it interesting that somebody with that much money
uh would be interested in the presidency in the first place
i guess it's it's as much you know just the sense of power and the sense of being able to accomplish things uh as much as anything else
i don't know
it seems to me that if i had that kind of money
i would feel like i were more [influential] as a private citizen than as the president
uh_huh
huh
no
no
i i hadn't really paid
that much attention
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
what kind of
i mean this this obviously says something for his uh you know something for one aspect of his character what kind of person is he in terms of
uh_huh
be kind of a change
yeah
he's he's already won
uh_huh
uh i honestly don't think so
uh not unless he really puts a lot of effort into it
and i don't think he wants to
i think it's uh i think being a seriously being seriously considered as a presidential candidate is something that uh it it just takes a really hugh investment in personal effort not just you know i mean i'm sure it takes a lot of money as well
but uh just in terms of the number of personal [appearances] that you've got to make and all the the the [hoops] that you've got to jump through in order to get the media sound bites and get people paying attention to you
i mean an occasional newspaper article will show up for for any variety of things
but being considered seriously
i think is you know may take more than he's willing to put into it
huh
yeah
well i don't suppose he'd have to do a whole lot of fund raising or uh worry a whole lot about where the funding was coming from
so he'd have that advantage
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i've i've i've heard it in the billions i didn't hear specifics i figured once it you know once it reaches that point it doesn't really matter how many numbers are in front of the b you know it
it's passed it's passed any kind of reasonable [imagining] in the first place
right
well they've been independent candidates
but uh never as as popular as he seems to be
and i mean it seems to be doesn't really matter who who it is it's just that fact that he's not in either party that uh seems to be why he's so popular i guess
huh
uh well if we i mean sticking with this topic
uh i would just say that you know it's it's interesting that it doesn't really seem to matter what uh what his views are you know i mean he seems to have some views which are pretty conservative and which are pretty liberal
i guess he hasn't really outlined a platform yet you know
and people keep asking him you know what what do you feel uh is a plan to deal with the budget or blah blah blah and uh he really doesn't have any answers i guess
but that doesn't stop his popularity from [swelling] you know people are just sick and tired of
uh everyone else i guess
it seems to be
i don't know it's kind of like uh
people always people always blame you know they always say how can uh-oh
dogs outside uh people always say how how can these politicians be in power and stuff
but i guess they forget that they're the ones who put them there in the first place you know they're always they're always trying to find third third alternatives like uh you know limiting limiting number of years in office for instance but you know all they have to do is vote him out of office you know it's almost like they want to be forced to vote the way that they could in any case you know what i mean it seems strange
right
exactly
right
right
as long as he brings pork back my state then uh what do you think his chances are what do you think uh how much of the vote
do you think he's going to get and do you think he will take it more from the republicans or the democrats
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
exactly
uh_huh
personally i have a i have a problem with with [electing] someone who is that rich
uh i mean they're all that rich anyway
but
but
uh what are your thoughts
yeah
uh_huh
no
no
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i uh uh on sunday night i was uh listening to uh the radio
and they had they had [speculated] that uh there was some rumor that
tsongas was thinking of running again
uh_huh
uh_huh
well doesn't that seem sort of uh uh it doesn't seem seem like it's useful for him to uh doesn't it seem like a waste of money though for him to come back into the race this late uh what are his chances of winning at this point
exactly
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
yeah
what what did you think about the buchanan this term
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
well
yeah
i i agree with you
it does seem that he came in and kind of [fluffed] the pillows uh you know uh for for the campaign anyway so we didn't have to hear the same thing again
uh we didn't have to uh we didn't have to ignore a lot of uh bush's success because you know he really did a lot in the last term he uh with the gulf war and all we could have we could have had our [judgement] [clouded] just by his his [accomplishments] you know i i really do think i am going to vote for him again next term
but but uh i wanted to know exactly
everything that happened you know a lot of times maybe i forget
oh sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
uh what i mean is though the strong sense of uh [nationalism] that occurred you know right after the war
uh sort of [heroized] george bush you know whether or not
it was you know a success for us or whatnot he tended to come out of the out of the experience you know as the great american hero
and uh
yeah
yeah
so i i i i'm glad that uh he can't get into office this time without at least uh addressing a lot of the the home front issues
and uh well [todd] uh it sounds like uh we may have covered a uh a [miniscule] portion of politics today
what about libya i have no idea what to say about
yeah
i i don't know uh if if you had asked me the same question about uh uh kuwait you know at this early in the game
i don't what i would have said then either
i i don't uh now of course the last time i listened to anything was on sunday uh
and they had still refused uh the [concessions] by the security council so
did you see in the newspaper or on the news when uh president bush [fainted] at a dinner was that in japan um
well i thought it pretty scary
i i missed it uh
i mean when when they were [rerunning] it like the next day or something
i mean i didn't hear about it on the day it happened uh it was interesting you know that uh when he [fainted] and every one kind of jumped up on the table
it's really amazing that that would happen
and then of course all the dan quayle discussion comes up again
that is true
that is real good
well he you know for as young as he is he seem to uh have several health problems you know health incidences if not problems
uh right
that's right
well i uh i guess i have not really been i have been trying to tune out a lot of the political issues right now when because the [campaigning] is starting
and uh so
uh_huh
right
it is scary
yeah
uh_huh
right
the foreign students
uh_huh
well they think
well that is really true
uh but i have noticed from uh my associations with teenagers in high school that they are really motivated by how much money they can make
and when they hear on the news about people being laid off and uh you know corporations and things
i mean i feel like they don't want to make the effort out of their own personal interests to follow a particular field
or
they want to think you know how quickly can they make money
and they are not attracted by the work that has to be done to achieve uh you know a position like that
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
well you are right when you say that uh the important issues need to be not as much what is going on other places
i mean that it is important for us to do
i mean we can't be isolated here
but uh you know we do need to pay more attention to our own economy
and our civilization because we have seen how quickly
and it is almost unbelievable the fall of the soviet union
and the uh berlin wall and all of that it is almost unreal
to me still
well uh longer term trends i think that uh like past oh ten or fifteen years uh there seems to be a a trend
and maybe it's longer than that of of politics is is strictly a
what can i get for me
or what can i get for my group and not what's best for the whole uh kind of a thing uh does that make any sense or
i mean the
yeah
political action committees that
and i think it i think it ties in with the the budget deficit that uh the congress
and the is they they get reelected by what they do for their districts uh in terms of bringing in and bringing in money
and and uh in order to bring in money for their district
they've got to vote to spend it in other districts
and and uh the heck with the overall uh deficit
it's what what you get for your constituents one way or another not what what's necessarily good overall
yeah
yeah
like texas yeah
yeah
yeah
okay
yeah
yeah
and uh yeah
but let's see
you you do have uh long time uh long time power people there in terms of
i mean
well the other ones got uh powell and been in the senate forever
and uh
yeah
yeah
yep
yep
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i guess i guess i'm a little more cynical than that i'm not i'm not sure that it that all of it has to be done even but uh
but i mean in terms of of not necessarily all the planes that the government buys they really need or not necessarily well
in in particular uh planes and i you know i see this here in in texas that that uh got uh-oh
i can't even remember which of the companies it is
but developed for the defensive department and defense department is saying well no
we we don't we don't really need it it's going to be too expensive
and it's not going to do what we need
and the the texas people are fighting to have it built for just to just to keep and create jobs
here rather than because it's uh you know they they they certainly use the words well it's needed
but but uh
yeah
no
yep
right
yeah
yeah
yep
i i i think maybe so
and i think that
or
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
right
right
right
you know
that's true too
but do you see any other trends or particularly interesting events that come to your mind
yeah
yeah
certainly did when he first did it
can't yeah
huh
yeah
yep
yeah
i've kind of gotten out of the habit of doing this  
it's been down this weekend  
in the school systems  
that's right  
what school system does he go to  
okay  
okay  
my children go to garland  
and i teach in dallas  
and my husband teaches with plano   in the what  
well yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
no  
they're still in elementary  
so yeah  
uh_huh  
i'm definitely not  
are you kidding  
no  
no  
i want that  
i think it would be better for the teachers and for the children because we would do away with so much of the burn out that we have  
i know when you get the kids that have gone the summer being out of school then it's like they've lost so much ground we spend at least the first six weeks just backing up [reteaching] what they had the year before you know  
well we're starting pilot schools  
it's  
dallas is doing it i know  
i think plano don't they have some  
and richardson's supposed to start some pilot schools going to school year around  
and then we you know we investigated this by flying some people out from dallas to observe some of the schools in california that already had it  
yeah  
it seems to  
and one thing it'll save us money because we've got the buildings sitting there  
right  
and we might as well use them  
well air conditioning what's and and heating  
isn't air conditioning less than heating because we have to just up  
like if we get in the thirties we raise it up to the seventies  
right  
that's forty degrees  
isn't it less  
and it's not like the kids are going to go a lot longer  
really if you go year around   there's not thirty days difference  
there's different ways to do it  
like i i think going two six weeks and then having two two weeks off each after a two six weeks period is one way  
see i don't know because i've never seen it in action  
no  
the school system in dallas has sent people there   to do that  
no  
but i think i'd like it  
and i know a lot of teachers that would like to try it  
the principal's their hands are tied by all the administrators  
and i heard that in dallas it's one out of every three is actually in the classroom of the educators that were hired  
it's just  
you don't even know who all your bosses are  
it's ridiculous  
[marvin] [edwards]  
well you know he did supposedly cut administrators  
but what they've done is create other offices for those same people and just [renamed] their jobs   and you know opened up other other things  
one thing we've got going is called reading and initiative  
and they've hired all these administrators in on that you know  
pass or no fail what is it  
no play  
no play  
carter high school  
yeah  
and all the things that dallas fights costs thousands probably millions of dollars i bet you  
yeah  
i know  
and psychologists and stuff  
that's right  
no  
we do not  
no  
we need more of the tax money to actually get down to the students because it's pretty frustrating when you see you don't even have paper  
and you're trying to [ration] it you know  
now that's sad when there's supposed to be what you know one thousand what sixty five dollars something like that spent on each [pupil]  
um it's it's wrong  
anyway i was thinking about  
one thing that's wrong with schools is that we're not teaching to the children's [modalities]  
and i think in nineteen uh ninety three we're supposed to begin that  
if if a child is a visual [learner] we're supposed to present him with all these visual things  
and if he has to learn just by [kinesthetic] we're supposed to teach whatever way that that child has to have it learns the best way  
and that's going to be quite a problem  
but if we could do something like that i'm sure it would certainly help  
i don't know  
no telling  
i don't know  
and you know at [nongraded] schools  
they've had one in [gladewater] for years and years and years  
if we could just let these kids go at their own rate  
i have children even  
i i teach chapter one  
and it's for kids that have fallen behind in their reading according to like i t b s scores  
and some of the kids really they shouldn't be in there  
and they're you know they're not being challenged  
and they're not being challenged in their home  
and we always have to teach toward the middle of the road  
uh_huh  
right  
my children's parents aren't even there at night most of the time   to do anything with them  
yeah  
i know it  
i know it  
i went for a couple  
and i didn't know that there was even a cut off or anything  
oh another things that's wrong with schools  
this is big  
there's too much emphasis on test  
we're spending the first hour of every day teaching for the test at my school  
and we're going to do that until at least the first part of may  
but see they're not in dallas  
yeah  
we're not working with the same type of students   that most of these kids in garland are  
but see what we're doing is we're turning these kids off to school even more than they are  
and we're not teaching toward the test  
we're teaching you know  
i always [objected] you know  
it's like there's not a whole lot of you know fun time like we used to have in school  
like our principal says i want every child to be on task all the time  
and you can't do that as adults  
but we're expecting kids to  
and like after after recess play  
we don't get that  
okay  
if they finish before their thirty minutes is up then they can go out and play for like maybe five or ten minutes probably be the most  
but we always got that  
didn't you  
yeah  
well i haven't tried  
but this is  
i haven't called in a couple of days  
but education in public schools  
i have a son who's graduating uh in may  
and there's some interesting problems of of of how you how do you challenge the kids today  
and i have some real hang ups  
i think that uh if your if your kid's not ambitious he can sure get lost  
yes  
in north garland  
he goes  
what school system are you familiar with  
oh  
okay  
well i have a daughter that's in the in   in the i b program at garland  
in the  
are you familiar with the international [baccalaureate] program  
uh do your kids go to garland high you said  
oh okay  
well there's a  
it's um  
she went from austin academy when it opened up   over to uh to north garland for ninth grade  
but at north garland the the difficulty i see with the education system is that uh is that you can you can you can get some masses  
but unless if the kid's really dedicated it seems like they do all right  
but if if if your child is just pressing along uh  
i i'm firmly convinced that teachers aren't being paid enough  
would you argue with that  
well you know the the the thing that i don't see and maybe you would take issue with it is that if if we went to if there was an opportunity for teachers to teach year around  
well would  
well how do we how do we get that  
yeah  
does it work well out there  
well what about the what about the issue of air conditioning  
isn't that a an area of concern in the cost of air conditioning  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's it's less degree days  
you're right  
but i think i think  
yeah  
well how do they do it  
do they put uh long  
do they put two or three week breaks between  
is that  
from from what you've seen is that the desirable way to do it  
oh you said you had some people from california  
oh i thought you  
oh okay  
but you didn't go  
well the the other issue has to that i hear that the local [commentator] i listen to some the idea that the numbers of administration and the fact that the principal  
do you see that the principals aren't really in charge  
well i had heard that one of the comments when they when they brought it  
um then why the  
the one they brought in the new [superintendent] for dallas schools the um  
can't think of his name  
but the idea   yeah that he had suggested that that maybe they could reduce the number of administrators and and some of the people who were administrators saying that that uh that's not what he was hired for  
but they resented the fact that he would try to save some costs there  
um  
well you know the other thing that bothers me is the amount of money that it that it took to contest the the football um issue  
yeah  
but the  
i can't think of the name of the school   that that uh  
but in any event they they they kept arguing  
yeah  
and they went to court  
i mean you know  
guess i i'm sympathetic with the kids  
but but how much money did that cost dallas to to to fight that in court  
but just think of all the the all the lawyers you've kept employed  
see  
that's right  
and and all these other people are out running around  
i guess that's the only problem with jobs being relatively [scarce]  
so but you need to keep all these people employed  
right  
and and  
you mean you mean we need a little more of our tax money like maybe uh  
yeah  
oh that's  
um that's interesting  
and how many administrators is that going to take  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's that's part of where my son is um would like to go to rice  
but i don't think he's  
well the the difficulty is is is the people that get in are are are [overachievers]  
and he's not an [overachiever]  
but the same time everybody can't go  
but it  
the question of of you know of how far should you take a kid in the motivation  
i'm not sure  
i think maybe there's too much responsibility put on the teachers to motivate these kids  
i had a a friend that was administrator in richardson said if the parents read books then the kids probably would read books  
but that a lot of the schools i would think the kids you're talking to question of of how much reading do those kids' parents do  
well  
well but that's the point as i would say uh  
and that is that's what makes  
there's a lot of problems  
but anyway um i'm trying to think how much longer  
i had a conversation week or so ago  
and we got carried away  
and they cut  
it [beeps] in at ten minutes  
so   so anyway  
huh  
well see that's in the garland schools  
the numbers  
they i don't think they have to do that because most everybody passes  
well opportunity  
right  
if you get graded on percent improvement  
but see that  
yeah  
and unfortunately the uh that's that's tough  
that's a real challenge though  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well yeah  
you know our son had that  
he was had an attention deficit [disorder]  
and they were keeping him from recess  
and in reality that's uh that's one of those really tough situations  
i think the kids need some time to play  
but people like if more people like you though that understand the problems get in and and change some education  
so uh i got some background noise there  
but i guess  
it's it's hard topic because  
is is is it doing a good job or a bad job  
and you got to divide it two different categories whether you live in the city or whether you live in a more rural place like i do  
well public school all the way up   kindergarten all the way up to uh uh high school  
yes  
well yeah  
i am oh  
actually i think that i higher level education  
i don't think there's so much of a problem there  
it's pretty much funded well  
there are small colleges that i'm sure are struggling  
but uh it's the job that the the high school and the grade schools are doing that i see in a area like ours  
our school  
even a bad school is a good school up here where if i lived in new york city or washington d c uh i would seriously consider moving if i had a child  
i wouldn't let them go to a public school system there  
but of course people are trapped economically  
and they can't do that  
well that's really too bad because it it's giving some people unfair advantage  
i mean we our high school up here is like a junior college in florida  
what we learned  
yeah  
yeah  
like they have that down there that  
yeah  
it's like if if your father owns a grocery store and you're really interested in that  
there's no reason that you should take college prep courses when you can get some   general business courses in high school  
yeah  
that's true  
i was fortunate  
i'm a i'm a technician  
and we had a [vocational] uh electronics in our high school  
so when i went to my first year of tech school i had a very easy time because our high school   had a a good program  
yeah  
i find that   that the that in the in the cities it's more like the kids go there so socialize   not really to learn  
and the parents send them there because they're supposed to  
and plus it gets them out of their hair  
and i also find that that you can send a kid to school  
but if don't work with them as a parent i think you're putting your child at a big disadvantage  
yeah  
well i could i could see if a kid doesn't have any [encouragement] if they're you know come from a broken home and they're parents are more concerned about trying to work  
and or maybe they're unemployed  
and they're mad at the world  
i can see where that wouldn't be very good for a a kid you know  
he's coming up will you help me with my homework  
and they're no get away from me  
i've had a terrible day  
so it's got a lot to do with economics in the area that you come from  
yeah  
are they going to move to uh   mexico  
uh_huh  
on the  
yeah  
maybe the maybe they'll bring their good schools with them you know  
if the industry comes   hopefully they'll promote good schools  
because i know the town that i come from the the uh the large i b m plant has something to do with the top rated high school because of their tax base for one  
and plus for for the type of student that's going to that school it's going to raise the level of the school   because your parents are engineers or [chemists]  
they're they're you're most likely to do better in school  
they're going to help you  
yeah  
you hope  
well i think  
i i don't know  
i just think it it's it's a duty of the parent to do that  
i mean jeez my parents always helped me  
and i don't know  
it's just like you say  
it's the way you're raised and the economic situation you're in  
i can see some lady  
she's twenty one years old  
and she's got four kids  
a kid in  
her first grader  
i don't see where she's going to have much time for them  
so i don't know  
it's just like  
i don't know  
actually i think it's i think it should be   a civic level the city level and a a system level really to find out and to see what they need and not [overinflate] it  
like if the teachers are getting six percent raises every year when people in industry have been getting cut back and you're getting   raises every eighteen months you got to go now hey wait a minute  
we're in a recession here  
we uh our town didn't pass the school budget this year and for the first time in many many years just because people are are in the recession  
and they're  
even though we've uh enjoyed very good employment here for the past ten years  
now we got eight percent uh unemployment when it used to be four or five  
people are going whoa  
so  
yeah  
but i always see it's all it's all money  
this  
like a couple other topics we had talked about was crime  
it it's it's all money based  
and what you can do unless you just get down to the parent level  
and and then if you're in a bad situation where you have to send your child to a bad school  
who knows  

maybe we do we need some more catholic schools  
support the church instead  
they seem to have done a the good job in the past  
in uh some places uh you couldn't go to a public school  
it was miles down the road  
and the only school you could go to was the baptist school or the catholic school  
so  
yeah  
i don't  
yeah  
i don't know if i would do that to my child though  
but so pretty much though  
see i don't have any good ideas or or anything that would contribute  
see this isn't a subject that i think a lot about because i'm never faced with it because our school system in vermont it seems to do a really good job  
is it  
well that  
well  
so you have to go to a lesser engineering school  
we have a very good public school up here  
and a degree out there means a lot  
it's a very good school  
it's it's university of vermont  
uh we also have some two year college  
well there's a four year colleges  
they all have a pretty good reputation  
but like you say you  
yeah  
and are you talking about public schools being lower level high school level or   state school  
okay  
but you're [excluding] high level education  
okay  
yeah  
i know down here the school's are you know  
i don't know  
they rate  
i moved to arkansas and texas after living in ohio  
and the schools down here rate you know bottom ten percent across the country  
and having been through grade school up there and coming down here to high school i can understand why  
because they're so far behind and so poorly staffed half the time the teachers don't know what's going on  
right  
well that was my experience going through junior high up there  
when i came down south for high school i was just repeating what i'd already done   because we were so far advanced  
and uh you know i'd been in a parochial school before junior high  
and you know even the public schools are behind the parochial schools  
so you know i i like the concept they've got now where they have more directed education you know  
you you pick a career path  
or you get counseling earlier  
and then you you learn the things that help you rather than spending four years learning the same things over and over  
well they talk about it  
and there are a few in some of the more like in  
i live in a big metroplex  
and some of the the better parts of the metroplex the the suburbs that are richer have those kind of target schools  
but uh you know  
right  
or if you're going to go the science route you can go to a target school that specializes in science or art  
you know there's no point in you know  
i'm an engineering student  
and if i have to go take art classes you know i'm not going to use them  
and through high school i could have gone so much further if i'd gone to a school that was directed  
right  
in high school  
right  
i think the schools today you know the public schools are just they're just [overrun] you know  
they don't know what to do  
there's too many kids and not enough teachers  
and too many of the kids don't care  
and  
right  
yeah  
and you know there's some kids that you know want to go learn  
but most of them just want to go play  
yeah  
that's true  
i'm wondering with the boom down here  
it's well not at the moment  
but a lot of the industry's moving [southward]  
so  
uh i don't know about that  
but a lot of the industry up in uh you know the northern states is moving south  
and i'm wondering if that's going to have any effect you know on what you see now  
we're we're we're behind down here  
i say we because i live here  
if  
that might not turn around in the next you know fifteen twenty years  
yeah  
right  
you hope  
i guess you just have to wonder  
is it up to the  
is it you know  
who whose supposed to make the change the the state the the federal government you know  
where's the money supposed to come from  
is it you know  
what what do you advocate more taxes or better management of what they got  
yeah  
yeah  
starts hitting closer to home  
yeah  
they're a lot more strict  
you uh have to learn  
you aren't given the chance to you know screw off all the time  
well i know i'm in the you know  
the only reason i asked about secondary schools or you know advanced education is because down here you know going to the university of texas the education i'm getting i think is kind of shoddy for a public school  
i i don't think i'm getting what i should  
but you know in texas it's next to free because they pay so much of it  
it's state supported  
but at the same time it's really not it's not like going to m i t  
my engineering degree will be nothing like somebody coming out of m i t  
and that's it's really too bad  
but that's  
i don't know  
i think it just builds on the foundation that they've already built  
you get people out of high schools and junior colleges that don't have the background for an m i t kind of curriculum  
so  
i i i assume you have kids  
oh well she she doesn't have to worry about public schools yet  
yeah  
well   we have a little bit of a basis for conversation  
i was a substitute teacher for about a year  
yeah  
i uh thought i wanted to be a teacher  
so but before i went through all of that i wanted to see how i was going to like it  
and and they uh  
in alabama where i came from they they allow you to substitute if you got a four year degree  
so i went out and played substitute for a while and decided nope not for me  
yeah  
it was  
i just took grades one through six  
i thought i was going to be smart and get the good kids wrong  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i i sometimes wonder if i didn't mess up  
i maybe should have taken the higher grades because at least you can if you have to you can get mean with them  
those little kids don't understand it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's a nice way of putting it  
exactly  
and too most people don't have that option  
you know and plus it also depends on the district your in as i mean on the  
i've seen some districts where all the schools are lousy it doesn't matter what you do   uh accept for the private ones of course we're talking about public  
i don't know  
back when i was going to school uh you just didn't get away with the things these kids get away with now  
i mean you you pulled [stunts] like that and you were down at the principal's office and uh usually bending over to get five of the best  
um but now nowadays they can't even they can barely [scold] the children for something you know without getting sued  
oh yeah  
well the thing that really did it for me i was [subbing] in a fifth grade class  
and uh this kid comes to school with his lunch box  
and inside this lunch box he he's got easily two i'd say two hundred to two hundred and fifty dollars in one dollar bills  
and i asked him uh what are you doing with that  
and he says my father gave it to me  
and i didn't believe it for a minute  
um so uh but uh you know the  
not a lot i could do about it  
can't stop the kid from bringing money to school if he wants  
well i have  
i i i've  
i think i understood what the what the kid was doing he was a uh  
well let's just say he was one of those types that you wouldn't doubt that he was selling something  
but not a lot i could do about it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because uh uh that just  
that doesn't do a lot for them  
i mean it   [alleviates] your problem  
but it doesn't do anything for them  
uh i don't know  
guns and  
i don't know  
it's something  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh sure  
i mean it's [indicative] across the board that we we've done something wrong  
and when you see uh koreans and chinese and japanese who are taking all the uh science jobs all the engineering jobs all the [mathematical] jobs  
and you know here we are  
we can't we can't balance a checkbook without a calculator  
um i don't know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
yeah  
that's that's a great deal what law schools like  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh i did the same sort of thing  
they just  
you sit there and read hundreds and hundreds of cases  
and then you get one examine for the whole semester  
and it's how well you can remember it all  
yeah  
and i found that a particularly useless way of studying  
i never did  
i always tried to understand things not tried to memorize  
and consequently some of the very best students were had excellent memories  
but they couldn't put two and two together as far as the law was concerned  
so  
it didn't show me anything  
a year and a half i gave it up  
i wasn't really  
i didn't want to be a lawyer anyway   just wanted the degree  
so  
well  
i don't know  
what can we do about it  
money   money is not the answer  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean they're throwing more money at it now than ever before  
and things are getting worse  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i don't know  
i uh  
as much as i didn't like school when i was going through it   from my perspective now i can see that it's a lot better than what we have now  
and i think part of it is that they've got to give authority back to the local school  
you know i mean it's it's silly that these that these people are [handcuffed] when it comes to discipline  
yeah  
exactly  
i mean i i mean teachers are so afraid now of even saying something   to students because they're going get they're going to get complaints or they're going to get sued or something  
oh yeah  
well lawyers help create that  
well i think i think i i mean what we've turned the school schools into now are just day care centers  
you know somebody  
okay  
we're going to send our kid here for seven or eight hours a day  
and he's out of our hair  
and the other part of it is parents have quit becoming parents  
you know they're just  
oh sure  
i i  
you   you can you can have the best school system in the world if you don't get anything at home then it's it's not going to help either  
so i don't know  
i don't know  
i don't know what the answer is  
it's an interesting interesting thing you want to do  
i  
how is texas about keeping your children out of public schools  
do they allow it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
that's interesting  
i remembering reading a few cases about that when it when some people first tried that and they got sued   got taken to court by the school system  
i'm glad the parents won  
i mean it seems silly that um we started  
that's that's the way you got your education in this country  
and then um  
uh we have one  
she's only nine months old  
right  
well my degree is in teaching  
so  
oh really  
uh_huh  
did you teach in all subjects or in all grade levels  
or  
uh_huh  
well my degree was in fourth through seventh grade  
but i taught junior high  
and i expected it to be a lot of trouble  
but it wasn't that bad  
i taught remedial reading kids  
and well they don't call it remedial reading these days   they call it something else  
but but anyway at the time that's what i taught  
and um you kind of group your behavioral problems together that way   when you have your slow readers  
but it it wasn't too bad  
we we got long real well  
yeah  
i  
especially with the real young ones  
i started out wanting to teach lower like primary and then top primary and thought well no i don't like this as much and ended up moving up and got up until about the sixth  
and so that's what i got my certification in  
but i had decided long before i was even married that i wanted to if possible teach my kids at home and not put them in the public schools  
um and my reason for that was i don't like the uh what's the right word the varied inappropriate influences that you find so much in the public schools  
you can find a lot of good public schools if you if you look real hard  
but i don't think they could cover everything that you could teach   your children on an individual basis  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and the the um the crime is just escalated and the drugs and   even in the the the lower the lower schools  
um  
uh_huh  
right  
crazy for him to  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we had the problem when i was in  
with teaching um  
i was eighth and ninth graders that i worked with  
and if we did have a a student come in and they were drunk or they were on something you had the option of calling the police and have them taken out of the schools or trying to teach them something while they were there  
and you don't know if you were reaching them or not  
but we felt like you know maybe just going ahead and try to teaching them was trying to teach them was better than have them taken out  
yeah  
right  
uh most the time if they were they were  
some of them were even better behaved  
i've only had two instances where i it was really noticeable  
but they were better behaved when they were um  
i don't know if was alcohol or something else that they were on  
but it ended up better  
but  
i think there's a problem too with teachers trying to um to be so versatile that they do loose sight of the basics you know  
they've been a big drive in especially in the seventies to return back to the basics  
and uh and i'm not completely just you know just teach the basics in schools  
but i think there does need to be a [reemphasis] of those because   of our our lower grades in the standardized test and such  
right  
uh_huh  
well i spent a year and a half in japan also  
and i've seen how their school system works  
and i  
they go by a complete [rote] system  
you just memorize everything  
and then at the end of the of a certain time period you [spitted] everything back out  
and the better the [memorizer] you are the better your grades are going to be  
so i don't completely agree with that either  
but there   there definitely needs to be a balance somewhere  
oh is it  
is that what you ended up going into  
oh  
uh_huh  
how how much can you stuff in your brain  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
good question  
probably  
taking  
no  
there's plenty of money in the system  
it's just  
i think it's like a lot of things in the in the united states  
we've got so much built up in um in the in the uh bureaucracy and in the politics of it  
and in the the power plays that it needs to be pulled down and started over again  
and there's no way that that can be done  
not without [wiping] out a whole generation of of kids in the school system  
so  
maybe on smaller smaller scales  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right into the classroom it needs to be   be able   to be enforced  
uh_huh  
it's like doctors in lawsuits  
you know they're kind of fearful of   everything  
that's that's  
well at least i've heard that  
i i i haven't fortunately been in a situation where it's   been applicable to me  
but   uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it has to be reinforced in the home  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they allow it under certain circumstances  
you have to to prove that you're teaching them something  
you have to follow   a preferred curriculum  
um they try to encourage you to follow a specific curriculum although you don't have to  
and then if you have particular religious beliefs they have to be they're kind of monitored  
you know they they will allow you to  
i can't think of any examples  
but certain religious groups don't want their children in public schools because the influence  
and maybe they were a group of [mennonites] or something like that  
i don't think they're were in this area  
but um they they are monitored by the um by the state school board  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
all righty  
um well i uh have a four year old who will just be entering public school next year  
so i'm really just starting to get involved in uh in what's out there and how they do things  
um as far as the system as a whole i really don't see a problem with it  
i do see a problem with graduating people that that can't read and are not you know productive in society or productive to themselves  
and uh i think that's the main problem at this point  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think they get bogged down in a lot of small issues that people you know special interest groups can blow up   and uh and not really get down to teaching what's important  
teaching these kids you know how really the basics is what it comes down to  
is that right  
huh  
i remember  
and talk  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
then it comes down to what you said before though about them being some of the lowest paid public you know public service   employees that there are  
and yet they're so important  
uh_huh  
right  
well you know it's hard though because then you start talking taxes  
and   that's a bad word  
there's an idea  
run on that then no income taxes in texas huh  
i'm in texas too  
so  
well me too  
i uh i think we both agree there's some problems there  
but   we'll maybe do our small part to fix them up  
all right  
you too  
bye  
well in the in a normal route of way we do things how about the ladies go first  
all right  
i'm live in plano texas  
and uh   uh today we're not even suppose to be in school because the uh the way the taxation and all that crap is there really legally isn't any funding for the school systems in texas today  
so uh i mean when you when you take uh uh professionals and put them in situations they have to make decisions based on money to fund public education  
and they can't get their finger out of their ear long enough to to get that major subject in line  
something's wrong  
so i think here in texas mainly that the the they're not serious  
they're more serious about what the salary should be for senators than they are for what how the level of education should be for children  
i have a one year old  
so i'm not i'm more opinionated about the [observations] than than the true facts  
but   it's just a shame to me that that the our firemen our policemen and school teachers are the three least paid utilities um that have the biggest impact to our well being  
i have i have a real issue with that  
um i think that if from every year when they when they pull in the the the uh test that the last three years you know ten eleven twelve year uh graders take  
and and then you see that their education is below the norm throughout of all fifty states  
they're not saying that something's wrong with the educational system here in texas  
i have a real concern about that um  
as a matter of fact i'm very content to spend my daughter out of state to college in virginia   uh verses having her go down here and not learn anything  
and then uh so i'm my opinion i think there's a big concern  
hope hopefully the new uh education secretary of education will do something to fix the problem  
but uh i don't know  
they've got to quit worrying about uh the uh religious uh [overtones] in our textbooks and get on with teaching the product  
uh_huh  
exactly  
i was [astonished] to find out that that across the united states in all public schools it is not mandatory for them to take [phys] ed  
they don't even a lot of the school systems don't even uh the kids nowadays don't even know what what the president's fitness education program is all about  
they don't have to do sit ups and push ups and all that crap we had to do when we were going to school  
and yeah  
and uh i talked to a thirteen year old last night who's uh goes to uh one of the plano high schools or junior highs i guess  
and she said that she had a choice  
she could either have taken tennis or weight lifting  
so she choice to take weight lifting   over the regular gym  
i mean give me a break  
i mean the kids sit there  
and they and they drink cokes and eat popcorn for for lunch  
and   then go out there and lift weights and don't learn anything  
it's just a real i have a real problem with the whole system  
they need to put some [sternness] back into the into the teachers and let them be able to uh get the old whip out and get some discipline  
uh_huh  
i used to   i used to date a girl who taught english at ninth grade level  
i mean i was absolutely flabbergasted at what they what she was paid  
true  
she was young you know  
but still it's the principle  
of course if she got her masters degree it would all be different  
but uh  
oh taxes lord   lord forbid taxes  
goodness gracious if we would uh plan our [expressways] a little better that ten dollars for the bridges and the roads we'd cut that in half and get some teachers we might have us a problem  
maybe i should run for office huh  
that's true  
that's funny  
that's funny  
well that's about all i have here  
yes  
ma'am  
surely  
i've enjoyed it  
bye bye  
first of all i want to tell you i have two little kids  
but they're not in public school yet  
i i get i get that experience starting next fall   with kindergarten  
yeah  
no  
but uh being one of these late in life mothers i've listened to everybody else's you know   complaints as to what's the matter with either their kids or the school system  
so   i've been surprised  
do are do you have school age kids  
oh  
such as  
uh_huh  
well i heard a a frightening thing  
actually i didn't hear it  
it was told to me or suggested to me uh that to work as a teacher in the public school systems in the state of texas  
and i think it's similar in in many other states if you have a degree in a technical field you do not need a teaching certificate because there is such a shortage   of uh people to teach math and sciences  
and somebody said well you know you could go in and and substitute teach at seventy five dollars a day  
and there's always going to be you know somebody having a need for a math or science teacher  
i thought christ they're letting me in   to you know  
this would be this would be frightening  
i don't know anything about it  
right  
right  
and even if i knew how to teach the subject matter i don't know if i'd know how to handle that kind of a a group of kids  
i tell you what i'm finding frightening  
and this comes from you know the the aging hippie near forty mother  
so i went through this period of supposedly you know [cosmic] social [enlightenment]  
i'm on i'm in the plano school system and living in richardson  
and there is a real [dichotomy] in terms of educational and economic background of the kids that are going to be attending this school  
and i used to think well that's wonderful  
you know they can get a real life experience  
what i'm seeing now uh in terms of kindergarten [preparedness] just from in in in different preschools   it's like day and night  
and i wonder how do they handle a child who is obviously very ready and another child who doesn't even speak english let alone know her colors  
and they're in the same classrooms  
and i guess also you're going to see the first of the uh crack kids starting kindergarten  
my god i think it would be next year is what i'd read  
i thought well how do you how do you weed those out  
when i was listening to n p r the national public radio  
and they've quoted statistics that i just about my throat just about fell into my toes  
they said at the bottom of the s a t scores of graduating college seniors are usually those people that go into education  
yes  
yes  
and i and i i got to thinking back when i was teaching college chemistry the people that took you know the lower level courses i sometimes wondered you know are they really even [educatable] or trainable  
and it  
my god you know  
are the rest of us who went for the big bucks you know staying out of you know where maybe we should be kind of socially obligated to spend some time teaching or something with   these kids  
i don't know  
well you know you you sit here  
and you think about that  
at the same time you think god i hope i don't sound like a stage mother because   right now if you ask my friends put twenty mothers in a room and ask them how many have gifted children you're going to have twenty hands you know up there  
oh no  
nobody has nobody has a [nongifted] child  
and i keep thinking you know gifted is is einstein or you know uh musical [prodigies]  
it's it's not a kid who's you know [precocious]  
you know what has you know has has the educational system been watered down to that anybody who's above average is now gifted  
i don't know  
oh don't say that  
uh_huh  
well you see i think that that [harks] right back to the elementary and junior high years  
because i have a stepson now who's twenty five  
and uh i was just absolutely shocked uh the first time that i saw his [schoolwork]  
uh i remember being you know taught  
and i think you know you have to teach how to write an answer and you know how to [construct] a thought process  
and you know they can get a they can grasp the points  
can they [convey] the data [verbally] or in writing  
and that's what's you know really scary to me  
uh i would really you know  
there's such a a push among young mothers these days to make sure their child is computer [literate]  
i would really think that they should be [stressing] more can the kid write a thought and at an early age  
and if they can't i mean if they have missed that training then somebody you know before you're you're start penalizing them with bad grades for not being able to communicate what they're thinking teach them these basic skills  
well my stepson you know i he went into the navy or air force  
i just really get my military  
i married into a military family  
and i don't know  
i address them all as generals  
so i don't offend anybody  
but uh you know fortunately for him he wasn't dumb  
but boy he sure had trouble you know putting things on on paper  
and one of the things that that they did for him they tested him  
and they said that he's you know great in electronics  
but he you know he's really does need the basic skills  
and they put him through six months of composition writing in addition to all his electronic training  
and at that point he has now graduated from warfare electronics school with honors  
this is the kid who who really you know barely   made it through high school  
and i keep thinking you know it's not it's really not too late at any point to do you know  
yes  
yes  
and i kind of have always pooh [poohed] military educations  
but i think that for this kid it's going to be you know his [lifesaver]  
otherwise he might have been driving trucks or framing houses you know from here to [eternity]  
so i don't know  
you know it does make me nervous  
there is a whole lot of stuff going on out there  
and and part of me says i just would like to you know shut my eyes and pretend it doesn't you know go on or send them to private schools  
and then the you know the old social conscience says you know i'm not working i don't need to work  
maybe i should volunteer to you know teach what i know  
maybe adult literacy maybe you know composition writing maybe you know uh volunteering you know on a tutor line or though the even through the elementary schools for help with homework  
or the other part of me says is god i've had enough kids  
do i  
okay  
well  
ah  
yeah  
so you haven't really uh dealt with that in a sense  
yeah  
yeah  
uh mine are both out of school  
and uh   you know i i've in [hindsight] seen some things that i wished that you know i had done something about that was you know within my power or uh you know wish that in some ways we as parents had more control over   what's happening up there you know type thing  
uh well just over the years there were situations that uh uh came up that i didn't think were fair or handled correctly  
or the teachers didn't seem to be teaching anything  
of course it's a little hard to tell from the information that you get from your child you know  
they they bring things home  
and i was never one to believe everything my kids said   you know about something  
but uh still i i questioned the ability of some of the teachers to uh really do a bang up job  
and yet others i know are just wonderful  
huh  
yeah  
that's pretty interesting because just   just because you know a subject matter   doesn't mean you can teach it  
oh yeah  
in fact i think that's that's one of the big problems today is the the way the kids behave or act and and the way they are sometimes disinterested in what's going on in the class and disruptive  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
some of those certainly have a lot of difficulties you know with uh all sorts of things  
and i would imagine their learning disabilities are quite large in some cases  
oh wow  
that's encouraging  
yeah  
well that's you know that's an idea  
maybe there need to be some radical changes made  
do some things that are totally different and unheard of  
oh you're kidding  
yeah  
huh  
that's interesting  
i don't know  
mine didn't did not fall into the gifted category  
nope  
and i would never had said so either  
uh but uh they managed to get through although not always with flying colors  
uh in fact one of the incidents i was thinking of that my son had uh he was struggling with senior english  
and i had a meeting with the uh vice principal and the english instructor  
and uh she showed me a paper that he had just handed in  
and she told me what she had requested  
and i read it  
and while it had you know a few little [grammatical] problems it wasn't very long and so forth  
i thought it had some nice well thought out uh parts to it  
she gave him an f on that paper  
and i thought well now here you have a student who is trying to pass who is struggling with your subject  
and you give them an f on something that doesn't seem that bad to me  
what are you telling that student  
you're telling them that hey you might as well forget it you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's pretty sad to think uh about those who even today are graduating from school  
and they are telling that they don't know how to read you know  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
that's interesting that the military saw that and did something about it  
you would have expected them to be the last ones to  
yeah  
well i can see why if you've got little ones just coming along  
there's a a whole lot of stuff going on out there  
yeah  

okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's very true  
um i guess i can relate to that because i have two kids that are [opposites] like that  
uh one picks up real quick  
and the other one doesn't  
and you're right they do get bored uh really fast if they already know what you're talking about  
what do you propose that they do  
what what is your suggestions  
uh_huh  
out of each child  
each individual child  
right  
yeah  
that's  
that's true  
the only i think the only thing that they would argue about that is that you know every child needs to learn every subject  
i mean that's that might be the only thing  
but i mean i i definitely agree with you uh  
right  
right  
that's true uh  
yes  
i definitely agree  
there's no doubt about that  
i uh i i mean i can relate to that because i'm i'm going to college right now  
and i feel like i mean i'm taking this history class  
and i mean it's so boring  
and i just hate it  
and i think why do they make us take this stuff  
i mean what does this have to do with getting you know a computer science degree or whatever you know  
uh american history  
we have to take um like this is like early seventeen hundreds through i don't know i think like mid eighteen hundreds  
and then we have to take another one that's mid eighteen hundreds on up to basically present  
yeah  
yeah  
that's well that's   basically what they're doing  
yeah  
oh yes  
definitely  
i agree  
yeah  
there's  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
any way this this um school system thing  
i i tell you i saw something on the news oh i don't know maybe two weeks ago  
and they were talking about  
i don't know where you're from  
but i'm from the dallas area  
and they were talking about the plano school system that they had one school that uh if the students did something wrong i mean whether it was behavioral or uh you know they weren't learning properly or something they took these students and put them basically in a closet with no windows  
they had a a table or not a table but a desk in this closet  
and they had to sit in there by themselves  
well parents were getting really angry about this because they said why is my child being put in this closet  
well how is that helping my child you know  
and uh the the thing you know  
they said well we're giving them isolation time  
and this helps them to think  
but a lot of kids  
i mean if a child has uh [claustrophobia] i mean that's just going to [terrify] him you know  
and  
uh that's true  
that's true  
but no  
i mean they were uh i mean  
i definitely agree with parents  
i think that is a very wrong way to handle uh disciplining a child  
putting them in i mean they were they were they called them their quiet rooms or their isolation rooms  
they didn't call them closets  
but they showed these rooms on uh you know on the news  
and i mean they looked like a closet to me you know with a desk in it a real small  
but they said that one of the solutions they came up with was to take the doors off of these isolation rooms  
i said now what good does i mean how is this helping  
i mean either way you know i i definitely had to disagree with that  
i think that is that's not the way to handle a child you know discipline a child by putting him in a closet  
right  
right  
yep  
uh  
right  
well  
right  
uh_huh  
i i don't  
yeah  
that's true  
well  
um i have to  
i think one of the positive things i mean one of the things that can come out of uh is not just discipline okay  
but okay  
for instance one of the things they do at uh my kids school uh they have what they call uh caught being good slips  
and when the kids are in halls and stuff and if they're being really good i mean just being excellent they're not you know cutting up and so on  
they're just standing in line doing whatever they are supposed to  
they get one of these caught being good slips  
and then when they collect them at the end of each week they get to go to this little what they call their caught being good store  
and then they get to spend these like money  
well see to me that's positive reinforcement is much better much better than trying to find ways to discipline kids because they're going to be good and try and earn those things you know to get the positive part of it  
i mean they'd much rather go in the store and buy something than be spanked  
so they're definitely going to work towards being good you know rather than trying to act up and be bad you know  
yeah  
well that's true i think i think really though  
i mean that's one thing that i mean my kids definitely get spanked when they need they need to be spanked  
but i really do try to use positive uh reinforcement with them at home also  
and it really helps  
and i mean they they don't get spanked very often  
but they they do when they deserve it you know  
but uh i don't think any kid should be exempt from being spanked  
i mean i i think i wouldn't mind if a teacher spanked my child  
but you know that's just my personal opinion  
and that's not going to  
i mean i don't think that law will ever change  
they are never going to let a a teacher spank a child again  
but i don't think  
i mean some kids don't get don't get spanked at home  
and some kids need to be spanked at home  
i mean don't you think  
but i don't know  
right  
right  
well there's so many parents that say you can deal with a child without [spanking] them which is true you can  
but there are times when a child needs to be spanked  
i mean they do things that they need that  
right  
the public school systems well everybody's has known they've needed [renovation] for years but never really had a clear direction on which way to go with it  
the first direction that i can see or i wish i would love to see them go with  
kids learn at different rates  
and for too long they've kind of [lumped] everybody together  
you'd learn at this rate  
and that's the only way it's going to happen  
you've got some kids that'll pick up on it in the first three minutes you're talking about it  
and the the other fifty seven minutes you've been talking about a subject you've bored them  
the educators need to be a little bit more open minded as well as innovative in dealing with uh the various students to get the maximum potential out of the person  
out of each child  
some kids are going to be great with mechanical stuff  
other kids are going to be really into math  
some are really going to be heavy into reading  
instead of pushing the scales too far either direction i mean it's great to be well rounded and be exposed to all this stuff  
but why not hit the points the kid's really interested in  
because if he's interested he's going to study it  
and he's going to learn it  
and he's going to remember it  
they need exposure to every subject  
they don't need to be masters of it  
everything i learned about ancient rome has not helped me anywhere in   my adult life  
what what type of history class is it that you're having to take  
well the early ones they could actually combine two two   levels of it the one from seventeen hundred til say the end of the civil war  
combine that into one and then from eighteen sixty five to present  
and make that your second step because   to a point   to a point the bottom you know the early parts of it you're giving the [foundations] of the nation  
and but even then they're [skimming] over  
they're very almost trivial with it  
you know i mean if they really wanted to get to the meat of the matter i mean there's they make all these people out to be oh  
they were great men  
and they're the father of the country and all this  
he had just as much dirt on him as anybody else  
if not more  
the man was not a saint  
if if the isolation concept really works that good why are our prisons overcrowded  
the as a part of the [revamping] of the entire education system on that the public school system i want to see changed too  
when i was brought up if you crossed the line and you broke a rule bad enough you were going to get spanked  
well then the extreme came in  
and now we can no longer   spank them  
so we now isolate them  
okay  
we've swung the pendulum both ways  
let's find a middle ground  
instead of there has to be some sort of discipline  
and there has to be some sort of punishment   short of physically [isolating] the child and short of physically hitting the child  
let's put him into a situation where okay you crossed the line you broke the rule you're going to have to pay for it  
but it's going to tax you physically  
have i mean instead have them pick up around the school yard have them weed a flower bed somewhere on the school do something to [beautify] the school property  
but you cut you know  
the the kid's having to give up his quote play time to pay his debt for what he did wrong  
but he's seeing something [constructive] come out of it  
i think that not only applies inside the public school system but in society itself  
we've been too long there's been too much negative reinforcement  
how much like the caught being good slips  
how about just the john q citizen out there on the street  
i most wholeheartedly agree  
i mean there's a point of over kill  
but somewhere in you've got to find an even line  
need that shock effect where they equate the shock of being spanked with the actions they did to get spanked  
uh_huh  
um i think that there is something definitely wrong with our school system just because of the results that you see coming out of the school system   as far as uh people dropping out of school uh grades on test scores being low uh more and more people taking g e d trying to get out of high school instead of just going through high school  
you know something must be wrong as far as uh not just the teaching techniques but just motivation   within within the schools themselves  
uh_huh  
oh it's okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
and i know uh  
i work around you know a lot of teachers  
and i i understand how uh supportive they are of their students and how excited they are  
but some how i don't think the students are getting excited  
oh yes  
definitely  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
progress  
uh_huh  
yeah  
not not even that much probably  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and speaking speaking of doing what you want uh just in society today being that it's nineteen ninety one   um a lot of teenagers and young people have a lot more freedom as far as what they do   as far as you know even even something as simple as staying up late um watching television late um   going out late start dating  
you start dating too early you know  
just little things like that that do start in the home  
that can that plays a big part because you spend eight hours of your day or more in school  
and so any other part of your life that's going to definitely affect your school life   because you spend so much time there  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i talked to a guy the other day  
and he is now in in a program that's trying to get him out of high school because he he fell back several years ago  
and he's going to he he will have gone to school five years  
um and the reason that he was doing so badly a couple of years ago was because his mother died  
and he was having to uh support his entire family take care of his brothers and sisters you know  
and all that had an [adverse] affect on his school life  
and yeah  
and that and that's a perfect example of how your home life you know plays a definite part  
and you know   any other aspect of your life  
an but now now that he's in this program and you know he's i guess okay  
he's he's making straight a  
and you know it just it it was there it was just i guess school was not a number one priority for him at that time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
exactly  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
when people start talking about programs that help for me i don't care if it's socialist  
or i don't care   as long as it's something that's going to do some good or that looks like it could be beneficial  
i mean that's the point i'm at now  
i mean that's the point we all should be at is like finding some solution  
i mean you know nothing totally radical  
but if it's something that you know might help you know  
because there's not a lot being done  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
take them out  
yeah  
not very far at all  
uh_huh  
i mean it's it's almost like  
right  
right  
right  
an a lot of it a lot of the parents now are so young  
you know that they're they still they still don't know what's going on  
and how are they supposed to you know teach their kids that are coming up you know what's going on  
i mean it's just it's a vicious cycle   that we're you know dead smack dead in the center of  
and we have to try to swim out  
you know kind of like the bermuda triangle  
we're just sinking  
and it's almost impossible to swim back up  
but um yeah  
there's definitely problems  
its just the solutions that you know they're going to be in our political system  
they're going to be on everyone's mind for quite a while too long  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
there's there's  
right  
there's definitely too much leeway as far as  
i mean i've only been out of i've been out of college only two years  
and you were saying that you don't appreciate education until you get out  
and i i already you know i really didn't i really don't see myself going back to school or anything  
but i appreciate more what i had  
and i had all these classes and all this knowledge and this big library across the street from my dorm  
and i just didn't take as much advantage of it as i should have  
no  
i went to u t at austin  
uh_huh  
so i mean all kinds of resources and you know just there  
and i'd give anything to have that right now in my in my regular  
i mean you you have everything given to you  
i don't see why people wouldn't want that  
i don't know  
i  
but then if i was young i wouldn't see it  
but you know now that it's gone i  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i did a lot  
and i experienced a lot  
and i i feel like i got a good college education  
but just when i got out i feel like i should have spent more time in the library  
i should have taken those continuing educations classes or whatever they were you know  
the informal classes that you don't get credit for you know  
that sounded like one  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
excuse me just a minute   uh  
i'm on the other line karen  
i'm sorry  
okay  
uh she uh  
yeah  
well the the results  
i i hear what you're you're saying about the results  
and uh it's what to do about it i guess is the the big thing  
i'm i'm in a kind of an interesting situation in that my my wife teaches school here in plano  
and i know that uh the results that they get out of the system sometime is is certainly not you know up to what the effort they put into it you know  
i've seen that for years  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've often wondered if it doesn't come back to the the home environment  
and uh it if uh no matter what they do in the the classroom if they go home at night and you know it's all totally [undone] uh  
the the thing that uh uh that karen my wife has has run into so often is that you run into a group of kids that are going to succeed no matter what no matter how bad their teachers are   no matter what a lousy system they're in or anything else  
these people somehow manage to uh you know   push on through and are successful  
it's uh unfortunately probably what maybe twenty five or thirty percent of them do that  
well that would be be at the absolute most  
and uh you know those those that you know come out you know fall out of the system that are are real trouble  
i i wonder whether that's just a uh uh a part of the system you know  
if you know in a democracy where you know people have kind of uh a freedom to sort of do what they want   you know there there's an inefficiency there  
and you've got to let those you know those  
uh_huh  
oh oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and sometimes in some systems they make everything so competitive you know  
you from the minute that you walk in until until you leave your your competing against somebody else  
or your competing against uh a system or or something   you know  
and then a lot of  
there is a personality type i believe that is really [noncompetitive]  
they're cooperative rather than competitive  
and when they get into a real competitive system they just say oh well what the heck   and uh tend not to you know do too awful well  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i would think so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it uh  
right  
survival becomes more of a priority than than education  
and unfortunately you know there's uh there's and old joke about uh you know  
[education's] wasted on the youth anyway  
you don't you don't really appreciate it until you're much older anyway  
i know when i went to school uh my attitude was kind of one of you know these people are you know taking a tremendous amount of my time   you know  
and i've got better things to be doing than sitting here listening to this stuff over and over again  
i guess today that would be uh some how or other there would be a program of some sort that would take care of that sort of thing  
but  
the uh the cure some of the [cures] that i've heard for this that that sort of make sense  
uh most teachers after they have taught for a very long especially at the the lower grades can spot a problem almost immediately  
and uh it's kind of these intervention programs  
now a lot of people will get to looking at these and say hey that's [socialism]  
and that's communism  
and that's you know  
and then it gets political  
but uh boy  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um yeah  
well you know the the radical programs in some cases are just totally unacceptable  
there are kids families that should just simply be taken out of the homes you know   and uh uh you know uh just removed from those situations  
or they're never going to get anywhere  
but yet politically that is not a very popular view  
i'm sure that if you you know ran on a platform of you know we're going to find the kids that are having trouble at home and we're going to take them out of the home  
yeah  
you know how far you're going to get with that  
uh but unfortunately it's it's something like that in lieu of that you know is the intervention programs in school where the these kids are are [spotted] fairly early on  
and uh you know there's well that's get to be a problem in texas you know   because different school systems have got more or less money to take care of that sort of thing  
you got counselors and all that  
but you know you can counsel a kid eight hours a day  
and then he goes home  
and and uh you know in the in worst cases he's got parents either on drugs or or something like that  
or they don't care  
you know mamma guess what i did in school today  
well who cares you know  
true  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm  
i don't know if you've ever had too much to do with uh-oh especially asian japanese families coming  
here in plano we've got uh quite a few  
uh engineering types people who have come from japan  
and they put their kids in the u s schools  
and they're appalled  
you know not so much at what the schools are teaching but what they let the kids get away with  
you know they they see most uh  
they're they're quite upset about the uh the disruptive influence of school  
most of them would say you know those people should be removed from the school system  
and in japan they would be you know  
but uh here again you get back into a political thing where uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
were you at baylor  
yeah  
did you go to baylor  
oh oh okay  
i'm uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that's that's it  
you you don't have uh   you don't have the view  
i graduated from texas tech   more than two years ago i guarantee  
and you know i kind of look back at it sometimes  
well that was a lot of fun  
but   you know i'm not sure that that i took the greatest advantage of you know what i went through there  
uh_huh  
i'll let you go first  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i uh i spent a couple uh years down in uh plano texas  
and uh i was one of the home owners down there that got taxed to death   for the uh plano uh school system  
and uh i you know i know that texas doesn't have a state tax  
and so all the things come out of the the property taxes  
and i was uh really shocked at the amount of taxes i ended up paying  
i was i was better off paying a state tax back in maryland where  
than i was uh paying the uh property tax down there  
uh what they did in maryland to get around that is they uh they developed a [renters] tax solely for the purpose of paying for the services   that the [renters] were getting including the uh educational services  
and uh the tax was administered by uh the uh rental company that actually was managing the apartments  
so when   uh long long time ago when i used to live in apartments i would pay a rent payment every month and a tax payment every month  
and the tax payment went to pay for the services that i was getting as a a resident of that particular county  
and uh that's the way it worked  
here in maryland we have uh a certain portion of your your property taxes uh goes to education  
but also a portion of the state tax that you pay goes back into the county that you live in to pay for the educational system  
and so it it works out nice  
it it it makes it so that the uh whole county now  
i i know the concept of counties in texas is quite a bit different than it is here in maryland uh  
like collin county uh would only equal about maybe an eighth the size of baltimore county here in maryland  
i mean the the counties are much larger  
you know in the the whole state of maryland i believe there's only like uh fifteen counties  
and so uh you know each county has their own school system an and it works out real nice  
um the the flip side to this is are we getting what we're paying for  
and i don't believe so um  
a lot of things have come to head recently  
and i heard a report because of uh uh the emphasis that the president was putting on education you know   uh him running as our education president and then finally a couple of years later getting around to doing something  
um they said since they [imposed] the federal regulations on education  
in other words they came up with this [federalized] system where everyone in the third grade would be taught basically the same thing  
and then at the end of uh school year they would be tested  
and then they go into the fourth grade  
and everybody in the fourth [grade's] basically taught the same thing  
so when they came up with these this nationwide system of public schools uh they gave some figures out  
and since it's [inception] uh they've the price has gone up per the prices paid by the federal government per student has been thirty three percent  
and so they're actually spending thirty three percent  
and that's real dollars you know   adjusting it back to to the days you know when it started uh probably you know seventy years ago  
and what they've said is that we haven't had a thirty three percent improvement in education  
we've actually gone backwards  
yeah  
yeah  
well they they've been having some problems uh even here in uh like baltimore city which is a a pretty good good sized city  
uh they've been putting a lot of uh stress on it  
and of course speaking of stress the teachers are all getting stressed out from trying to you know do everything they're supposed to do  
and of course they've uh been cutting the teachers salaries   because they say we don't have the money to do it  
and   all the services are costing more money and and everything uh  
but uh a lot of now is being put on you know when children used to be taught you know like uh uh each child is individual  
you know they're not all the same  
and   some students do horrible until like eighth grade  
some do horrible you know until they get to like tenth grade  
and then all of a sudden everything [clicks] in you know  
and then there are some students that you know read well at five years old   and you know seem to excel  
and so that the you know one of the things i heard proposed on uh one of the public radio stations up here was that we should go back to teaching children at their own speed some  
yeah  
and and uh   and on top of that they they make the child feel inferior   because he's not as good as another kid his same age  
i mean it's like you know that's ridiculous  
yeah  
and uh you know i have uh i i have five children total  
and i've got two out of the house already  
and i i have two that are in uh eighth grade this year  
and prior to their um  
when i when they were in elementary school they were identified as being slow  
and so they put them into special programs  
and then we actually held them back in fourth grade  
and it wasn't until the last two years um  
last year my uh  
they're they're a set of twins   um a boy and a girl  
last year the the uh boy twin started doing real well  
and it it everything started to click in for him  
and he knew what he needed to do  
um and this year it it happened for uh for the daughter  
she just has been   really doing great this year  
and she has the right attitude towards school and everything  
and i think it's just a matter of everybody has to find their own path  
i remember when i was in school i did horrible up until about   yeah about the seventh eighth grade  
i i i started to to come around and realize  
an and basically i got interested in math   and uh never really did well in english  
but you know once you got interested in something and things started to click in place then after that you take off  
uh_huh  
yeah  
gee  
yeah  
it is um  
my children had a uh real culture shock uh when we lived in plano  
i guess i don't know if you've heard about the plano school district  
but   they're uh they really stress academics there  
and uh god if your child is not an honor student well then you're something wrong with you as a parent  
and that's kind of the way they are there  
and uh when we moved back to maryland um i moved to a uh a baltimore county which is a northern county in maryland  
and it's basically a rural county once you get above about the half way point  
and we lived you know in the northern part of the county  
uh we went from a uh middle school in texas that served fifty five square blocks to a uh middle school in maryland that served fifty five square miles  
and it was just a complete culture shock   because i mean they they're riding on the bus in the morning with uh other kids that you know are a sleep because they got up at three o'clock and were doing chores  
and   they you know  
it's  
and they had uh ag  
they had an ag course uh  
i forget what it was called uh  
but it goes along the the lines of industrial arts  
but it's agricultural  
and where they had to raise a small animal  
had to learn how to drive a tractor  
they actually had to take a driving test on the tractor  
i mean they just couldn't believe this  
and it was great  
they loved it  
i mean they really enjoyed the courses um  
and it you know it made school fun for them again because prior to that school was just a big pain a drain  
yeah  
and it was you know  
it was like kind of like the way we feel about going to work  
but uh up here they seem to have made it uh a lot of fun for them  
and they they seem to really enjoy it  
well i think i don't know how your schools work back there  
but we support our schools here with property taxes  
and the land owners or home owners are the ones that pay the school tax  
so if you're renting a house or doing anything else you're not actually contributing to the education of your children  
and i think that's wrong  
i think everybody should contribute to the education of their children even if they had to raise the sales tax by one percent then everybody going through the state would be supporting our education system  
so as it turns out we don't really have a tremendous education system because they don't have the money they need to run it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you would be  
oh  
yeah  
oh  
gee  
yeah  
yeah  
oh well that's pretty good  
oh yeah  
yeah  
gee whiz  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
[yow]  
yeah  
no  
huh_uh  
well they say that texas schools are some of the lowest in the nation  
that our high school graduates can't even match the national average  
so you know our school system down here is no where near perfect  
but they keep complaining they don't have the money to do it  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they need to take things at their own speed  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it'd be a lot better   you know each child has to learn at his own rate  
they can't keep force feeding things to each other and   or you know at the kids  
uh_huh  
because he can't do it  
and it's not that he can't do it  
he just can't do it quite as fast  
or  
yeah  
all right  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
all right  
um all right  
jumped on out there  
that's good  
yeah  
i did too up until ninth or tenth grade  
yeah  
yeah  
and see when i was a kid growing up and going to high school if i wanted to take a little electronics course i had a electronics course i could take  
but we lived out in the country  
and we didn't have all that fancy stuff to worry about you know  
we had our auto shop out there and our ag shop  
and   and you know we had just about every thing that we needed  
but they don't have it anymore  
there's a lot of things that they don't do in school anymore  
our oldest boy goes to lubbock high down here  
and they go to school four and half days a week  
so   that's pretty weird  
no  
uh_huh  
gee  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i can imagine  
yeah  
that would be quite a shock  
uh_huh  
oh like four h then  
all right  
all right  
yeah  
just something you do everyday  
yeah  
yeah  
just something i have to do everyday  
that's good  
our oldest boy went into school politics and made vice  
i certainly do  
uh i think   i think we have a lousy school system  
and i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we don't train our teachers very well  
and then we put the schools in the hands of professional educators instead of the teachers and the parents  
and then   oh we don't uh we put too much uh responsibility on the teachers   for things that are really not education  
they're social services  
well i as a matter of fact i just finished editing a book on the topic  
so i have some rather strong opinions  
and and i'm sure they're colored by what i've edited  
yes  
i do  
and i was not very happy with the results  
well i think i would start with a with getting rid of about two thirds of the administrators   and all the [auxiliary] personnel the school bureaucracy that exists mainly to [perpetuate] itself  
and then i would provide uh use the money that we've paying them to uh provide some special help in training and particularly uh [mentor] teachers   to work with the beginning teachers and the teachers who may have been at it a long time but have been making the same mistakes for a long time  
and then let them try some innovative things and see what   works and then uh have some sort of mechanism for passing that knowledge along to other teachers who could benefit from the same sorts of things   and then from the parents side have the parents support the school get involved  
pay attention to what's happening talk to the teachers uh talk to their kids about school and support the institution  
and  
instead of becoming [adversaries] to the teachers so that the uh the teacher's in the middle  
well i've done about all i can do which is get the [manuscript] in good shape so that it can be published and read by a lot of people  
oh well that i'm not so sure about  
i've got a lot of things to keep me busy  
have you done anything like that  
anything political  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's more than a lot  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's absolutely right  
they  
the thing that worries me about that is that if you just raise salaries across the board you're going to be   uh rewarding people who've been doing a lousy job and   instead of getting the uh improvement that we want  
so we'd have to have some way to uh reward and recognize the teachers who are doing a good job and give them a   a pat on the back and respect and some honor and   more money  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's it's hard to tell  
yeah  
yeah  
now that's a very good suggestion  
yeah  
i don't think   student i don't think student teaching is enough  
i think   that at least what i used to observe in student teaching was that some college kid who might not be all that bright to begin with was thrown into a class room with a teacher who was [harried] and overworked and uh had too many kids to handle and too many things to do and too many interruptions   to pay much attention to the student teacher  
and then the student teacher didn't stay but about six weeks  
so there really was no time to try   much of anything and get significant feedback that would help the the student teacher improve very much  
there are lots of things that could be done in that line including things like video taping because it wouldn't be hard with all the electronic equipment that's around these days to video tape uh either a master teacher teaching a class so that then   students could watch that and uh criticize the methods used and and analyze it figure out what worked and what didn't work  
and then also to video tape the student teachers so they could correct their own performance  
huh  
i don't think that's going to work  
yeah  
well another thing i think would be helpful would be to have some sort of of say a national curriculum because one of the problems with getting good textbooks is that we have such a [fragmented] system for uh curriculums that the textbook makers produce a textbook that will sell in texas and california  
and then everybody else is stuck with that regardless of what they want to teach  
because it  
well that's the two states that adopt on a state wide basis  
uh and so it uh  
i used to work for a textbook publisher  
and it was absolutely clear that if you could get your book adopted by texas then you had a built in market because there were only about three or four textbooks in each subject  
and all you had to do is just get your share of those adopted   in the individual school districts  
and you know a third of the texas market with its millions of kids is a heck of a lot of textbooks  
and then the states that either don't adopt on a state wide basis or don't have as many kids just have to follow along and take what texas gets  
california is the biggest for elementary schools  
but texas uh [adopts] state wide all the way through the [twelfth] grade  
yep  
sure is  
and i hope maybe we're going to get somewhere with a little more attention being paid to it with uh [reagan's] uh new education secretary and uh you know trying to do some uh trying to produce some new programs anyway  
excuse me  
i have got to go  
i've got another line calling  
thanks  
bye  
well [kathleen] do you believe that there is a problem with our public school system  
and what do you think that problem is  
huh that seems like you've thought this through quite a bit before  
that's interesting  
do you uh yourself  
do [youself] have children who are or have been through the public school system  
i see  
so if you were to improve it what would you do to improve it  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's uh some pretty good ideas  
why don't you do something with those  
uh_huh  
well you should uh run for a school board position  
uh_huh  
that  
well my mother was on the school board   as we were coming up  
and uh that basically is the extent to which our our family has been directly you know  
they've always been involved  
my parents through the the p t a organization  
and my mother was on the school board for eight years  
but uh that was that's the extent of which i guess that's more than than some people less than others  
i would uh tend to agree with you that there is a problem  
the methods of correcting it i haven't thought through quite to the detail which you have  
but i believe that there's definitely a basic perception and image problem with the fact of even being a teacher  
and if there was a way to through the public mind set that image to be a little higher esteem a little uh uh a little more prestige to being a teacher  
and with that of course you know you have to pay them a accordingly  
if we paid them more it would attract more the the higher educated people to to either move into that field or to continue in that field  
and then if you paid them more you'd also be able to demand a higher quality product out of them  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
it unfortunately it's a and it's a business or an occupation that the results are not as tangible   as other ones  
so it's very it's very difficult to say that this teacher is doing a better job than this other one other than i guess how you how a person scores in the beginning before the class and then after the class  
you know if there's some gauge that they could make  
uh also i've i've thought around about the idea of making teaching and the  
before you can get a certificate you have a a certain residency period so much like a doctor  
maybe not the four years definitely  
but some certain type of of position where you're [overseen] to begin with  
uh just something to  
rather than throw someone in into that environment uh you know it  
i thought that maybe something  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
that's good as a a a teaching aid  
but more you see these commercials that have jimmy walking into class late and it happens that the teacher is an instructor who is in new york while [jimmy's] in rome  
and you know the whole electronic classroom idea  
i don't know if i i'm in favor   yeah in favor of yeah  
i think especially in the younger years you need to have more of the the person contact rather than just the fact that your machine being fed information to to learn how to learn  
huh  
is that   because that's where the two biggest markets are  
or  
i see  
uh_huh  
huh  
sure  
sure  
right  
i see  
well definitely is a national problem if that they need to address  
definitely is  
right  
right  
well i've enjoyed speaking with you  
all righty  
good bye  
do you have any particular thoughts about the school system  
i say agree with you a hundred percent there  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's interesting  
because uh we're just having conversation on this uh with a couple of people yesterday  
and i was expressing my frustrations that uh some of the so many problems i work in a high school are that kids don't have a a degree of self discipline which may be reflected in society at large  
uh and you can't expect in a classroom for a particular course an hour a day to [counteract] uh sixteen or seventeen years of influence at home  
um and it's seen more so because when you call parents up many parents won't even recognize that there is a problem  
and i'll say they'll say oh well our kids my kid  
i've never heard anything about this before  
this is the first time there have been problems  
and and you wonder don't these parents know that teachers talk  
and you know we do check with other teachers  
and other teachers find the same things in   this child  
and you know how do you tell your parent's the parent hey wake up and smell the coffee  
but um it it is a problem  
and i'm not sure just uh how how the school system could operate in a vacuum on it  
whether maybe through a commitment of the p t a uh and the parents being informed better that in fact that the problems that are nationwide   are problems um of society and that that the school can only do so much on it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
you know what scares me too is that we have yet to see other the biggest effect of the crack children   uh in the school system  
these are children that are born with low deficit attention deficit  
and gosh what's going to happen when these kids start coming into the school system  
that's really scary  
but there are i think there are a couple of areas where the school system can improve  
and this is something that i see  
too many times students get diagnosed as slow [learners]  
and in fact they're not  
they're behavior problems  
and so they get put in in in our school system in a class that's limited for skills children   that have really have to master skills  
and that's not their problem  
um at the same time i've seen we we have a an international population  
there's no bridge area for students coming out of the e s o l which is english for speakers of other languages   program  
the  
once they're past e s o l they get out  
they got thrown right into the total mainstream  
and uh there really needs to be a bridge some sort of transition   for that  
so the school systems can improve both in standing up for splitting classes you know having learning learning slow slow children in slow classes but not mixing them with behavior problems  
and then you know the case where they put the behavior problems in the average classes  
you get these kids that are average students but highly motivated  
and then you throw in kids that are not motivated maybe bright but they're discipline problems  
and you sometimes  
the average classes really are problems   because you've got such a mixed bag there  
you know the gifted and talented are fast classes  
there's really not that much of a problem with  
but it's  
uh_huh  
that's  
yeah  
i remember i had a college professor who once said that genius is one percent inspiration and ninety nine percent [perspiration]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess kids do mature at different ages   too  
that's  
and you know as a teacher you you try to make be understanding that you know there are different ages  
kids are  
is this a  
got a kid that just a question of maturity  
or is he a   problem child  
but teachers are asked to diagnose so much  
um there i mean i mean we're have to be  
we're [alerted]  
there's all sorts of systems where suicide uh [predisposition]  
i mean we're [alerted] to what the moment we see something  
if we see a child that we have any reason that's on drugs such as if he's got a beeper or if they're if they're [flashing] lots of money around we've there are certain things to do  
i mean so the school system's asked to do so much  
but you can't operate in a vacuum  
this is a we're in a rather wealthy suburb of washington  
and a student with a beeper immediately gets sent down to the uh principal  
it's for drug use  
they can't imagine for anything else  
yeah  
you know it's it's amazing  
but uh you get all sorts you get all all sorts of things uh in the schools uh uh  
and it's  
and you know as a teacher you're alert you're alert for the kid who's very [drowsy]  
you're alert to the kid who suddenly has a um behavioral change  
and you refer them to the nurse  
and so i mean you have to find out whether there's a legitimate reason or whether this is a warning signal  
and parents frequently resent when you ask them is there a problem that we should be aware of  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the denial mechanism is really strong  
and so many parents are [facilitators]  
i mean they're manipulated by their children  
i've been fortunate  
i have uh a son who's a sophomore in college up in massachusetts   at uh amherst  
and my other son is a senior in high school  
and he's going on to williams  
and i mean they're really super  
they're both national level   [swimmers]  
and where we've been very fortunate  
but you know they had to be held accountable   too  
i mean you know at some point a parent does help their kid but in in some ways  
but but you have to say at what point isn't the help becoming negative  
and i think this is where the school system at is suffering and not through any fault of the effort   of the school system  
but gee it was good talking with you  
yeah  
so there are people throughout the country that feel   the same ways that you do and and are connected with the schools  
uh_huh  
well we are though  
listen  
good luck  
take care  
bye bye  
well um i i think that in in uh  
recently with the  
i'm not sure if it's more a problem with american families or a problem with the school system  
they seem to be [burdening] the school system more and more with problems any problems that a child might have whether it's actually a school related thing or not  
and   i  
yeah  
and and well it's gotten to a point where the schools are expected to take care of everything  
if uh you've some kid who doesn't have uh who's from a broken family the schools are supposed to fill that void  
it's gotten way beyond teaching   uh you know teaching classes   and maybe providing extracurricular sports activities or something like oh were kind of traditionally the school's roles  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well then then again when you have uh a society where a certain percentage of the parents are uh doing drugs in the home   uh either unemployed and don't care about a uh just a have their own problems   how how do you expect the school to um or how do you expect the  
you can't really expect that parent who's quite frankly   a loser in life as it is   to to care about the the situation with their child  
and  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
well i i've seen more uh incredibly intelligent [underachievers] than   than uh  
i personally i will i would take a person who's motivated and a little uh less intelligent   than the person who uh is one of these very intelligent people who just kind of isn't motivated to do anything  
yeah  
well i not to [toot] my own horn here or anything but i i was graduated from my high school  
i was the [valedictorian]  
and i know   that there were a lot of kids that were an awful lot smarter than me  
and they proved out late when it came time to take the s a t  
mine were   good  
but they weren't great  
and uh when i got into college i struggled i struggled just to uh get my degree in the in the field that i was in  
whereas i knew people that in high school were kind of lazy and all  
but they got motivated in college  
and they did a lot better than i did  
and when it  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
you actually have students with with [beepers]  
uh_huh  
i mean where  
what are the  
what could they possibly be thinking  
i mean how  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
can you how can you how can you expect to  
oh yeah  
i i i was uh sitting in the [barber] shop  
i'm an officer in the air force  
and i was having my hair cut  
and the [barber] got a call while i was there uh from his son's school  
his son's in high school  
and his son was failing gym and uh and having trouble   with a few other things  
but you know it's like uh this guy was like why now there's no problem with my kid  
my kid's a great kid and all this  
the kid had missed all these classes  
and basically   he his answer was oh i gave him permission to to miss  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
right  
sure  
right  
it was good talking to you too  
yeah  
yeah  
i've had interesting conversations on several subjects not uh not just this but different the different   things  
it's amazing how the you know people you talk to have some interesting conversations  
and uh it's too bad that all this stuff is just being thrown into a data base and that none of the ideas or thoughts are being used at all  
yeah  
that's true  
yep  
bye bye  
well i guess um i'll start out  
and that is um i don't know what section of the public school system they're talking about whether it's the first eight grades the high school or colleges  
i have mixed views on all three of them  
well i i i should imagine the lower grades  
what would what what's what's certainly drawn everyone's attention to that is the fact that uh many of the inner city and uh i guess what we'd call uh ghetto or poorer districts   including rural districts don't seem to be able to produce the students that indeed many uh manufacturing and other   [enterprises] want  
they can't seem to they can't seem to read properly do math   properly and conform to what employers want  
so that's got everybody excited  
high schools i'm not too sure  
it seems that high schools at least produce candidates although i have great [misgivings] about the s a t that go on to a variety of colleges  
it seems a great deal of our public colleges have foreign students in them uh from um a myriad of nations  
and uh and also um uh i think that uh a certain percentage of uh the colleges produce a fairly uh public colleges produce a fairly decent student   or fairly decent graduate i should say  
oh i didn't realize it was that high  
wow  
yeah  
well that's what i was going to point out i think it mostly is that technical  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
that must be an inner school  
i just read a an   amazing article i guess   in this [month's] this week's new yorker about baltimore   uh which uh went on to talk about  
i don't know  
i thought it was rather slanted in favor of the mayor or or or the politicians in the in there  
i i do i do know a few people and have been   have done some business up in baltimore  
but it seemed to me that the inner school system there was the one thing that didn't the inner city school system was the one thing that didn't flower too well  
they talked about individual cases of people trying hard  
but it was very difficult  
i i i i think if i was going to fault it now  
if i'm i'm looking to carry on a conversation   that way i there's a couple of things that really bother me  
i think when i learned the other day uh uh that uh the average american the average american   now watches seven point two hours of television a day  
and that school children are not far off that mark with six point eight  
now i don't know what school children what year that is  
i mean that's a hell of a lot time to be sitting in front of the tube  
well i  
yeah  
really  
oh so you're close to the subject  
and yet you know i have grandchildren  
i have ten uh nine grandchildren in various parts of the country  
and of course you know i can't speak to the rural or poorer inner city schools  
these kids go to a  
they live in a fairly nice upper scale neighborhood  
and they seem to be doing extraordinarily well  
i i i mean i [quiz] them  
and i talk to them  
and they they read well  
they do everything well  
but i i i mean i think that's a that's part of the environment  
yeah  
that that that that could be very well true  
yeah  
right  
yes  
really  
yeah  
no kidding  
oh i i i  
yeah  
i guess i could i can understand that  
however i'm a product of the new york city public school system from fifty years ago   uh maybe not that long ago  
but  
and um and so i i always felt i didn't get a real good education in the in the grammar schools and part of high school  
so i lived in new england at the time  
i sent all my children to prep school  
i was  
i i didn't have that much money  
but we struggled  
and we did it  
and i thought it i thought a great deal of it was a great deal of the success that they had in their education was due to the low student teacher ratio  
and i i i think that could that's a formula that could be applied everywhere   except it must cost a heck of a lot of money if you do   it in public school  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that that that's   that that must be   then then if that's uh  
i think we both agree on that then then then then a parent   parental involvement has to be there  
and i guess you got to take them away from the tube also  
another thing that i have another problem i have is uh i don't really know how to resolve this  
but is the incredible at least in the high school and college level emphasis on sports where enormous amounts of money are spent  
and it seems to me that money could be more well well spent somewhere else  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  

but i mean   uh right  
to to what uh to  
you say other things than sports though  
yeah  
i know  
but i mean they don't just send it to the new stadium  
or  
really  
i well i guess they're   right  
right  
right  
yeah  
well i never thought of that benefit yeah  
yeah  
well i i never thought   of that benefit  
but the consequence   then  
i my i guess what i'd have to say about that is   there can only be one champion  
isn't that something though  
i didn't realize that  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well mark spitz made a lot of money on it  
and he and he came back this year  
didn't he  
but he didn't make it  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
right  
right  
right  
right  
well   i read i i also read i  
we're getting off the subject here a bit  
but i i do want to add this to that because i i was quite interested in that myself  
but i read where the reason that he had to do this in the [sprint] events is that national television wouldn't pay for the distance events  
and they didn't think they could capture the excitement to get sponsors   if you brought just the  
here he comes down the finish line  
right  
so it had to be it had to be   where they could put it in one segment  
and and and i guess capture the whole thing for some sponsor  
let me ask you another question  
yeah  
well if you teach uh college  
and and i know when i went to college i i went to summer school  
and i thought that uh in fact that my idea of it was uh rather than rather than finish early i just enjoyed some of the subjects that i was taking  
and i had the ability to to go in summer school  
and i i did   take those subjects  
so what that leads me  
my next thought is i understand there's a lot of talk now about [extending] the school year which seems inordinately short anyway   compared to the japanese   or the germans  
well how do you think that would work in grammar schools  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what do you think about what do you think about the the lower grades you know k through seven  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yep  
i uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i i just read some things recently where um uh colleges now uh graduate programs in general now train basically they're fifty per cent foreign uh  
yeah  
oh just about  
yeah  
but when you consider um   when you consider uh   especially in technical areas science   engineering and computers  
yeah  
especially in those areas it's um i it's it's almost fifty per cent foreign like forty eight per cent  
and that involves both canadian   and uh uh european middle eastern and and far eastern  
yeah  
i i think um i think i have similar views  
that's you know where our elementary grades um  
it's amazing  
i have a friend who's an who's an elementary school teacher  
and she said that they recently you know they have to go through they have to they have to pat the kids down because they bring guns to school  
she teaches in the city   of baltimore  
and that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and it's uh uh it's really  
you know kids can't read um  
it's really  
they  
you know by the time   they  
my wife teaches uh middle school  
yeah  
and they can't  
yeah  
by the time they get there they can't read  
they they can't read anything  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it's it's probably the work that your your children your children are doing uh um  
she she's yeah she can tell   she can tell you know when they have kids come in for  
they meet with all of the parents  
and she can tell before a parent comes in normally   you know give or take eighty ninety   per cent you know what the parents are going to be like when they come in and the [responses] the parents will give back  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
i think i think it's probably very true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but you know surprisingly i i because you put such a commitment on education   um your children probably could have gone to schools with uh uh a higher student teacher ratio   and still done well because when they would come home you and your wife   would say you know what did you do today  
if we let's sit down and read together  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh it's parental  
yep  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you you know what's really funny is that they there's been some research because i'm a   i'm a college professor   and um uh and and a lot of the research shows that like georgetown   while [hewing] was playing at georgetown   basketball georgetown   and they were winning   endowment to the university in other words money that could to everything everything and normally gets directed away from sports realistically a lot of the was uh was probably two thirds i guess it's now two thirds of what it was when they were national champions  
in other words while they're national champions   people donate more money  
average human beings like you and i average [joes] that make a decent salary   that are a graduate of the school   send big bucks like couple hundreds of dollars  
but thousands of people  
because no  
normally it's because of the sports  
right  
right  
but see the sports brings in the money  
because when georgetown was number one   their their their money that was donated to them from companies   from from from business people from graduates whatever   was up into you know like twenty million dollars  
and now it's down to like fourteen million  
during that time period in other words   their income has   their their [alumni] giving and other funds have slowly dropped since then  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's  
yeah  
it's it's amazing the way  
but now that's big time  
yeah  
but but uh smaller schools aren't like that uh  
only only the big time schools show that  
but you're right  
i i think the emphasis on sports  
and as a  
see i'm a i'm a i'm a former athlete in a sense  
i swam um  
but swimming never gets much glory so it really doesn't matter  
but  
that's true  
that's true  
but you know they still  
he didn't make it  
no  
i i would have liked it if he if he would have though  
but i think uh realistically you know you read the   the research studies  
and uh i don't think he would have made it simply because the the event he was trying to swim they even the research shows that distance running   so i would assume distance swimming might be similar that  
and he was good at distance spitz as a swimmer you know  
at  
i can remember that  
but the distance um the the distance strength and endurance or whatever sort of starts to peak at about twenty eight twenty nine thirty  
that's why some of your long distance runners   were in their early thirties  
and but he's was trying to make it in the [sprinter's] event  
and most of them   are under twenty five  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh you're kidding  
jeez  
huh  
and that  
as as an athlete i just hate that  
go head  
yeah  
what were what were you saying  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i think i think   i think uh in in some sense um what i would do before i would extend a school year is i would make it better before i would continue the [agony]  
and something you have to consider too um because i know as a as a   as a former high school teacher   i know that from right now  
uh_huh  
now is he the elementary school  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but he is being helped  
uh_huh  
oh great  
no  
that's something new to me  
i'm  
oh  
i think i read about that in the paper  
doctor [haggard] is is heading that up  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
so you worked you learned how to solve your problems on your own  
has has he had this since kindergarten  
or is this something that maybe learning [phonetics]  
and then he just didn't learn the right way  
uh_huh  
okay  
you're right right  
right  
good  
good  
that's great for parents to be involved  
oh how great  
so she she was able to zero in  
oh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
but that's something that parents i think are able to help the gifted child in the home more than they could help the learning disabled child  
so because   that's something you can do by just enrichment types of things in the home  
but learning disability unless you are schooled in the types of things and ways to help a child like that then it makes it real difficult  
and this is this to me is the benefit i see in public schools   is that that uh you do have government money to fund   the kinds of programs   that these students need  
and i'm not sure that the private schools or parochial schools address that problem   they test kids before they take them  
and if they're a behavior problem they're out  
that  
and and   uh this is kind of a [rejection] type of thing  
and and we get it even at our level in in  
i work a nine ten school  
and we get students that come in that have been kicked out of the uh parochial and and uh private schools  
and uh they come in  
and their attitude is i'm a bad boy and [proceed] to prove it  
so i i really hate that for them  
i i   would rather they not have that attitude  
but that's  
right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
no  
that's right  
they can be selective  
right  
right  
if you choose the select top group out of the public schools and tested them and then compared them to the to the private school group then i think you would have a more equitable   way  
and i have a problem when they compare the kids in japan or germany to the kids here  
in in in uh honesty the kids in japan are they have to try out to even get into to which kindergarten they're going to get into  
and then after uh  
and if if you only  
the in fact they've had cases in the past where parents have committed suicide because their child has not gotten into the top kindergarten which means they probably won't get into the top elementary and and high school  
and if they don't then when they reach a certain age they just that's the end of their schooling  
and and uh they don't ever really go on  
it's only their top ones that go on like ours do  
and and uh so that that creates a problem  
and   and you can't compare because they go so many more hours  
the other thing is that the priority in the family is that child's education   and is that child  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
better coping skills  
yes  
right  
right  
well and you don't you don't see the parents uh encouraging those students to get on athletic teams or   drill teams or band  
it's strictly stick to the educational  
and it's interesting to see them as they get older uh then that is the type of adult they are  
um  
well we've talked a little bit about the plano school system  
um i i really have been pleased with plano  
i have a child who uh  
my son is learning disabled  
and uh i thank god every day that i have the resources that we have tapped into  
he's in elementary school  
and he's not severely learning disabled  
i mean you know he just   he's being helped  
he he was in resource from second grade till fourth grade in math  
and they recently released him from   resource which i'm i was thrilled  
i really was  
i i just thought that was so neat that they got him over that hump  
and um he's in the [herman] method of reading  
i don't know if you're   familiar with that  
it is something new  
and basically what they do is they start right from the beginning [relearning] the sounds of letters  
um  
it's wonderful  
yes  
and it's wonderful  
he didn't have a problem with reading  
as a matter of fact he's reading on level  
the problem was his spelling  
and   you know in in watching the way he has struggled  
it's interesting because i'm convinced i have the same learning disability or had   that was ignored  
and  
that's right  
and and so it's you know it's not an intelligence problem  
it's just a problem with learning  
well you know it's funny  
when um when he was in first grade he had trouble with with spelling  
and i would say to the teacher you know it's amazing  
he will be able to  
you'll say to him spell cat  
and you know he'll say c a t  
and then he would go to write it  
and he would write c o t  
and i kept saying to the teacher something is wrong here  
something is wrong here  
and the teacher kept saying oh he has a may birthday  
he's just immature  
well second grade it was  
i will  
these teachers as far as i'm concerned are absolute saints because in second grade it was about the second week of school i went up there  
and i i requested a conference and   because all year long they kept telling me i was crazy  
well i was  
and i and i went up there the second week of school  
and i said you know something is wrong  
and thank god the the head teacher the team leader was a special education major  
it was it was  
and   she had picked it up  
yep  
she had already picked it up  
and she said you know we we were going to call you if you hadn't called us  
we think there's a learning disability  
and we think he needs to be tested immediately because you know once the first report card comes in they   have all these people being tested  
and she said i think we can get him real fast  
and sure enough they tested him  
and you know he qualified for for the help  
and it's been great  
and i and i thank god i'm here because i i know i have a sister who has the other extreme  
she has a a child in connecticut who is extremely gifted  
and because of the cutbacks in the economy   they have nothing for her  
and and to me that's the same thing  
it's it's like having a child who has a learning disability that's being ignored   this poor gifted child is being ignored  
that's true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
right  
exactly  
and   they don't take them  
that's right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
really  
yeah  
well when comparing test scores  
i know recently i was in a discussion  
and they were comparing test scores between private schools and public schools  
and that was one of the points that i made is that you're not comparing apples to apples  
you know you can't say um you know i know steven probably would not be accepted because he has a learning disability and   into a private school and um which is which is too bad  
but on the other hand i i can't necessarily blame them   you know they they are a private school  
and they   can do whatever they want  
and they they  
that's right  
they have the ability to be selective  
but you can't say then well public schools are are not as good  
perhaps they are because they're they're  
you're right  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
well you see that with the foreigners that come here  
um i i was talking to somebody recently or read somewhere where they where they said that you know these children they they had to be the best  
and they put off all social life all everything   you know  
well is that good  
yes  
the child is very bright  
but on the other hand i feel like my children who are kind of middle of the road have   are more rounded you know  
sure  
sure  
i think it's real important to have friends  
i think it's real important to play sports  
i think it's real important to be part of a team  
and so that's why i said their childhood is extremely different from mine  
we didn't do all that   you know  
we certainly didn't carpool and run the way i do um  
no  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
okay  
what do you think is the biggest problem  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
is it the do you think it's the values that they're teaching in school or the values they get from home  
right  
yeah  
i i i i think that the biggest problem is uh with the uh with the home environment being part of it  
you know if  
i think too many parents expect uh the school to teach uh the moral aspects of of things to the to the kids and you know while we're not going to worry about uh teaching you [manners] or teaching you respect for anyone or anything like that you know and then expect them to pick it up at school  
you're not going to do that you know  
you're going to carry carry with carry to school uh out into the world you know what you learned at home  
and uh   uh i think that that part of that showing up now you know with with things because kids i think have probably less respect than for for people than in in other things than we may have seen in the past uh  
and part of it's the the family i think  
and part of it's uh the living conditions of certain people are subjected too  
drugs is a big problem now  
and i think that's that's that's another root problem  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well i think it's like you say it's it's the socioeconomic mix  
there you know the they're  
you look at the schools like that where you've got a lot of kids who are basically uh that might be more well well off you know going to a private catholic school or whatever uh  
and and they're not all that way  
but you know some that are   um that they're they're not quite the same as the kids that are going to the inner city uh you know public schools  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know in a lot of cases like that where you know if kids are going to a public parochial school like that it's it's because the parents are more interested in them receiving an education it shows i think it shows that the parents have some uh desire for for the kid to do do well you know  
and that may be passed on down to the kid as well  
and uh maybe they pick up on that  
and then from the other aspect um maybe the uh school itself has has has more emphasis on uh trying to do a good job because the classes may be smaller uh  
they may be able to to give the resources that's needed to uh to do a good job  
uh that's a tough question   how to fix the school system  
uh with uh  
i would try to i guess to see about getting parents more involved with try to to come up with more ways to do that uh uh uh stress the importance of education to both both the parents and the students and uh more more classes that i think that are  
and i think this is happening some around the country in terms of um morals trying to teach the kinds of things that that aren't getting taught at home and uh and and respect for other people  
uh i think that's a big part of it  
you know people you know  
if you don't care about property and people you know you're not going to care about uh about learning i think   you know  
you're not going to really care about yourself  
right  
well you know and i  
that's not an but that's not an easy task you know  
that's why i say it's it's a tough question what would you do  
because you know even trying to instill those values is kind of hard when uh when when you're growing up in you know in a home which may be uh just the pits  
and uh you don't have any any kind of a good environment to live in you know  
it's kind of hard to say well you need to take care of other people's stuff as well when you're when you barely have anything yourself  
so  
i could see where that would be a problem  
and i think that's i think it's  
the biggest problem well like in this part of town seems to be the attitude and the atmosphere in the schools   that uh you know you can throw money at it  
but it's  
i don't know  
to me it seems like the schools are reflecting society in a bigger way   you know because i mean the general values that we're teaching   kind of conflict with what we expect out of people in school i mean  
uh well the values more or less at home and the t v just a general  
i mean learning is not a [revered] endeavor really  
i mean it's a lot more  
it's socially well i won't say socially unacceptable  
but whereas like in uh a person that uh  
they put a lot more emphasis on athletics  
and things like that are a lot more glorified generally in society  
and i think that carries over to school   a lot  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i wonder if that's a root problem or not  
because i think about that a lot  
and it's just like everybody likes to blame everything on drugs now  
but i wonder you know  
do you get the  
oh that's kind of side [tracked]  
but uh i just remember seeing on the news the other night they had the thing about how catholic schools are doing so much better  
i thought well you know of course they're doing better and not so much when i was growing up  
catholic schools are generally considered a little bit easier than the public schools  
but uh they still had a a better success rate simply because they started with a lot better raw material  
i mean everybody that went to a catholic school had uh at least the parents did at least had education as a priority   like you said   and kind of had a whole conducive atmosphere to it  
and i wonder if not so much that uh  
yeah  
yeah  
this is interesting because in my mind i don't have the stereotype of a catholic school being a suburban kind of environment  
but uh this this was actually inner city  
people were sending  
i mean just because their kids had the ability and the and the drive to do try and get an education they didn't send him to a public school you know  
like you said you have the drug problem and just the general atmosphere where you're [pressured] not to learn in instance  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean  
and what do you what would you do to fix the school systems  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what i was going to say  
it's the chicken and the egg thing  
i wonder a lot of times you know people i mean a lot of times people literally tear apart their own schools   vandalism wise  
and you get  
i mean it's been a while since i been in high school  
they're even in grade school when they do that  
but i can't remember exactly what goes through their head when they're doing that  
but you got to think in a way it's kind of a [outward] showing of that they don't think they have a chance of doing anything and take it out on the school  
yeah  
okay  
i guess we're supposed to discuss the uh school system  
that shouldn't be too much trouble for the two of us right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's really sad isn't it  
right  
well just recently in the paper here were articles about students uh working high school students   that work and the percentage of hours that they work and how that affects their grades  
but then the follow up the next day was  
i was kind of glad to see  
because it it said that you know  
yes  
but for those students who are determined to do well anyway that you know handling a job was very possible   you know and that it seemed to have more to do with other factors  
you know like what are their plans after high school you know  
and what's their home situation  
you know that  
right  
right  
right  
sure  
but there can still be an attitude of  
you know this is a [stopgap] measure because we need it right now  
but but that the most important thing is still you know   getting your education  
well when they meant said the the topic you know of what's wrong with the public schools my my first impulse was it isn't really what's wrong with the public public schools  
it's what's wrong with families  
and society in general  
right  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
well we've got uh you know at our school we have over a thousand elementary kids  
and last year was the first year that we ever had more than one counselor  
and that's just really not enough  
and i was talking to somebody that teaches in a middle school  
and they said oh but we need more in the middle school because that's when kids are you know at a tougher and [rougher] age and all that  
but you know part of my feeling is that if you solve help them to work through their problems while they're littler then they won't have as many problems up there  
really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
they   they do that here  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to change  
yeah  
right  
yes  
it certainly is  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
right  
i'm on that um campus [strategic] planning committee for my school  
and uh one of the uh you know oh  
they have all these different names for things strategies and all these different things  
but anyway one of the key things was that that we believed that the public education is the best economic value  
then i think they decided to strike economic  
anyway you know the point was what happens when public education fails  
you know   will then people go to private schools  
you know well what kind of a situation do they get there  
and what are you know  
and what kind of state are we in if if most people are going to private schools  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and one of the plano school [district's] you know goals is that they will graduate every child that uh that is here in the ninth grade  
i believe   it's something like that  
it's worded  
and uh i don't know  
right  
that's   so important  
oh gosh  
well that new movie   that new movie out  
i um  
really   really a frightening situation  
i guess we're both lucky   to be in situations and schools where we don't see that  
my folks talk about it a lot in illinois  
my mother was is was teacher for years and years  
and uh they live in [peoria] illinois  
and their talking a lot about the you know the school situation there too  
so well shall we wrap it up  
i think we have to  
so i'll see you when we see you  
uh_huh  
the reason that i wasn't at church  
and we went to hear uh james wind ensemble concert  
they left this morning for uh england  
isn't that wonderful  
uh_huh  
and uh the university  
no  
as many years as we've been involved in one  
i really feel fortunate in that there even though there are problems  
they're not a lot of problems where i teach  
but from talking to people in other districts there are some major problems uh with [dropouts]  
uh when i was in minnesota last summer   there was a teacher who said that uh on a given day she didn't know how many of her students would show up  
and sometimes they didn't even show up for class  
and she taught in high school in inner city uh minneapolis  
and uh they just didn't come to school  
and i cannot imagine being able to do much of anything when they don't even come to school  
uh_huh  
i think so too  
the home is the key  
i think really is because if the home   does not place a high priority on education  
and uh the main goal is making money now  
and it may be a survival thing   for the family which you can understand  
so uh  
right  
your education  
that's right  
it's what's wrong with families  
and if if children come to school   yes [insecure] and their biggest concern is survival   both at home  
they don't know what to expect at home  
they don't feel secure there  
they don't know what's going to happen just out front of their apartment complex  
for example that child that was shot  
uh how can they concentrate on schooling  
i agree   with you  
i think that's the main problem  
and school's now are supposed to solve social problems uh mental and emotional problems   as well as educate the kids and try to provide them with some security  
and that's overwhelming  
no  
it isn't  
true  
i think they there has to be at least a counselor  
and we just recently had a counselor at elementary  
we didn't even have counselors in elementary  
we have always though had three at middle schools because we had about a thousand kids  
and they divided them up between three counselors  
but for a good while every year they'd have a different counselor  
and they decided that didn't work  
so they started uh [dividing] the kids up so that a counselor stays with her group of [counselees]   through   you know through all three years of middle school  
and i think that would give them more security in going to the counselor  
if they have a [rapport] with their counselor  
now if they don't   i hope they have the flexibility to be able to change   a child that really is in need of counseling help if they absolutely refuse to work with them  
and occasionally that happens  
but it is frightening  
because uh education is the key to our future  
and uh if we have children who are not getting their education for one reason or another then what are we going to do with them  
what's going to happen to them  
are they going to be able to uh work at other kind of menial jobs  
or are they going to be the thieves and the people   in prison  
and our prisons are filling up faster then we can build them  
that's no good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think uh one thing that we'll see is that we won't be educating everybody  
there will be a lot of people who will not get even a menial education like in other countries of the world   where they don't try to educate everyone  
that's one of the things that we do  
we try to educate everyone  
we're the only country in the world that does  
and let everyone have an opportunity to reach higher education   if they're willing you know to work   and have uh some ability  
they can do that  
uh_huh  
well you know if we can keep them in school  
uh_huh  
then that that helps a lot  
i think the gang violence is scaring everyone to death too  
it's scary to me  
i   we are  
uh i would imagine that we've talked the amount of time necessary  
okay  
alright  
we were in uh austin yesterday  
oh  
oh how exciting  
oh that is wonderful  
what an experience  
okay  
let's talk about schooling  
okay  
well i have a boy  
and he just went into middle school  
and i have a girl  
and she's in uh grade school  
and then i have a little boy who goes to uh  
they have something just before kindergarten  
and it's called early childhood  
and i have a young   a young boy in that  
so i i have a lot of children in in the school system down here  
and um i think we have excellent teachers here  
i am really uh  
like the like the way the teachers work with the students  
uh i've not been so um happy with the schools themselves i guess  
like my last year my son and daughter were in the same grade school   before he moved up to middle school  
and it was just packed  
i mean it was a a fire hazard if we had any kind of assembly there with parents  
and it was just a real problem  
uh so we had to do a bond issue and and um vote to take money and either have students bussed to different schools if that's what the prefer to do or to uh work on the work for another school to be built which is a good idea  
but in the meantime the school still has lots and lots of kids in it  
so um i think one thing is that would  
maybe we don't have enough schools  
and secondly when we have enough schools sometimes we can't get the the support for the teachers that we need to pay them to keep good teachers  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh great  
we see through the out the country  
uh_huh  
i think that's right  
yeah  
the home  
yeah  
i think that's right  
it is so hard with a family system um either divorced or or just one parent   or just  
and then if both of them have to work even that is a a hard situation   for the children uh to to have a supportive system around them to make school work for them  
and i think it's real important that the parents work with the school um  
i think what you said is is really a [pinpoint] though that the student and the family life really adds or [detracts]   what's happening in the school  
so um what about your wife  
is she she happy at school  
or  
i bet she does  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
uh what what contacts do you have with the public school  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think that's i think that's uh true  
i i've got a little different uh contact  
but i've i've got a one son that graduated from high school last year   and another son that's a a sophomore this year  
and uh my wife teaches kindergarten here in richardson  
uh but in general i i think the the you know one of the reasons that we we uh the chose to live in richardson when we when we came here was the was the schools  
and i think that plano and richardson in terms of the uh things seriously wrong with the public schools are not nearly to the extent that  
uh right  
right  
and i think i think part of that is that is the the uh a big part of that is just the demographics  
the population in those schools are are typically uh people that very much value the education and support   the the school systems  
and and uh although there's still some still some problems  
but uh i you know i when i was when i was going to school  
i grew up in iowa  
and and in my family school was certainly valued  
but if there was ever any sort of a uh if if i was ever in trouble in school i was also in trouble at home   even more so  
and i think that part of it is is not exactly with the schools but with the with the uh   the culture that doesn't doesn't value the education and doesn't value the schools and doesn't support uh   what the schools are are trying to do  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh she she works very hard as a kindergarten teacher  
she has she has two half day classes  
so she   has uh you know on the order of twice as many students as   as the teachers in the higher grades  
and uh uh but her her background is in is in uh child development and   and uh so forth  
and so kindergarten is as high as she as she wants to teach  
and she's   she's teaching rather than something else because that that that's the jobs that are available and that the schedule matches uh you know with our kids and things like that  
so yeah  
uh and but uh the  
do you see anything wrong with public school systems  
i agree  
yes  
and i taught for fourteen years   before we moved to texas  
and the the one thing i see is changing is i was held accountable so much  
i had to document and create a paper chase for all of my students  
and instead of spending my time coming up with creative learning stations and things like that i was filling out all these forms   for all the children  
everything had to be [documented]  
and i had file cabinets that weren't filled with neat stuff for kids  
it was filled with documentation  
yes  
me too  
i think so too  
they're so worried about lawsuits and the scores the children get on tests now   and teacher competency you know  
and it's not like the teacher can just get in there and do her best  
she's always worried whose looking over her shoulder  
and  
that's right  
i know  
that's right  
do you have children in the system  
oh  
yep  
are you in plano  
yep  
i am too  
and i have one in ninth grade at clark  
and one at [hendrick] this year  
and he my my uh sixth grader came from an open classroom at matthews  
and the very first year i taught back in seventy three we had open classroom  
and it didn't work then  
and when we moved down here i was just appalled that they were still doing   it here  
partitions  
or just to face the children different directions or to do something  
i know last year my son had to eat in the classroom because there was no cafeteria at his school  
so he spent all day   in this one large open area  
so i didn't really care for that  
it seems like the schools in michigan were much better than they are down here  
that was our last tour in michigan  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
yes  
yes  
that's right  
we heard wonderful things about it until we actually got in the system  
probably so on publicity and letting [realtors] know and key people how wonderful the schools are  
so  
as a freshman  
yep  
yeah  
my daughter seems to be having a good time  
she was absent with [strep] throat the last three days  
and i ran over and picked up her report card  
and she did very good  
so   and she seems to be studying and has just about the right amount of home work i would expect   for a freshman to have  
she's not bogged down  
but yet she has some every night  
yes  
you always hear how good  
now my son's at   junior high and says that his grades are going to be wonderful  
but   who knows what he's going to bring home  
well yes  
i do  
um i think i'm concerned about the large number of children that each teacher is expected to to deal with in some quality way  
i think maybe we've given our teachers a almost impossible job  
do you  
do you have children in the public school system  
is that right  
you were a [bookkeeper]  
oh  
oh no  
well um i'm i have three years toward a teaching degree and am trying to get headed back  
and and i'm just really in a dilemma if that's what you know  
i love to work with children and   to teach them  
but i'm really having questions if if i can deal with that system and and have a good conscience about you know what i do  
i don't think i don't think it's the teachers  
i think it's the system  
but um  
right  
what child's going to say something   some parent's going to [overreact] to  
that's that's true  
well it's it's hard on the children too  
i think you know because the um the teachers are overworked  
and just like a mommy that's overworked   you're not at your best you know um  
i have two  
i have in the system  
one is in ninth grade  
and one is in seventh grade  
and them  
um i'm home schooling my [kindergartner] this year  
we um live in a district that has open classrooms  
and i wasn't particularly comfortable with that for her  
yes  
you too  
oh  
still at it  
well the explanation i was was given about you know  
they they seemed to admit that it wasn't working  
but they didn't have the money to [restructure]  
but looks to me that it wouldn't take really that much money to at least come up with i mean some kind of partitions   you know  
just  
yeah  
oh goodness  
oh  
were they  
well we were from north um carolina  
and of course north north carolina has a terrible reputation as far as education  
i think they rank about forty ninth  
but our children got a very good education there  
they were in the [magnet] school program  
and a lot of their classes from the time they were about third grade they they changed classes several times during the day which has its pros and cons  
but a lot of their classes there were only eight or ten children in their classes  
and it was wonderful  
so you know i'm coming to to plano thinking well gosh it's going to be really great  
it's ranked so much better  
isn't that interesting  
i i i don't understand how they get this this reputation unless it's just that they spend a lot of money  
i don't know  
i guess so  
well my son is at clark this year too  
so uh we're  
yeah  
and uh he's pleased with his classes  
i i i don't guess i've been in the high school long enough to to know what to expect really   you know how to judge it  
well that's good  
yeah  
well eric seems to have quite a few nights where he doesn't have any  
so that's interesting  
but he his grades i haven't seen them yet  
but supposedly they're good  
so  
that's right  
well what i believe is one of the major uh things that is wrong with our public school system is that um we do not have enough discipline  
and the parents do not let the teachers discipline the children the way that they need to be   disciplined right now  
uh when i went to school i know i was scared to death   about being disciplined  
and the discipline that my daughter receives now   in going to school is just totally different  
you know you just you did not see i did not see anybody in my classrooms when i was going to school act up the way that kids do   these days in the classroom  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
my my daughter's in the um fourth grade  
and um there's children in her classroom that just totally disrupt   the classroom where the teacher cannot teach  
and when i went to school that just wasn't put up with  
uh_huh  
well they they just don't do that any more  
but the school system's afraid of getting sued   and um all sorts of lawsuits i'm sure because of things like that  
and i also believe we don't even though i feel like i pay a good share towards the school system that the teachers are still underpaid  
and we still don't have enough money towards   put in toward public school  
and um i think that if we had enough money and paid the teachers a little bit more that maybe that could solve some of our problems  
yes  
supposedly that's what it's suppose to go for  
and   you know we'll just have to wait and see whether that's approved or not  
you know i don't know your feelings toward that  
i guess we shouldn't get into that  
but   um and what else um  
i think in some ways that they need to be more careful of the teachers that they hire  
i have heard stories uh from other parents that i know of their children are in high school   that teachers are out there giving drugs and selling drugs  
oh yeah  
i've i've heard some horrible horrible stories about high high school teachers  
and you know to be be more careful of the teachers that we place in our school  
um that's basically about all that i know that may be wrong with the school system  
i think with what they have to work with i think they're doing a pretty good job right now  
uh_huh  
so  
you don't have any children in school   don't have any kids  
yeah  
okay  
so this is probably a real hard subject for you  
yeah  
okay  
well i guess um we can [discontinue] our call now  
it was a joy in talking with you  
okay  
thanks  
bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i agree with that  
you were  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
from what i understand they act up pretty bad  
what uh grade is your daughter in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh no  
uh_huh  
they always had a paddle in our school  
i know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wasn't that what part of the lottery is going to go for if we   approve it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
really  
ooh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh um  
oh i do too  
i think they're doing real good job  
but then what do i know  
i don't have any kids  
no  
none at all  
oh yeah  
okay  
well it was good talking to you too  
we'll see you  
bye bye  
uh well i i guess it's a subject i haven't thought too much about  
uh i don't know if there's so much wrong with the public schools uh as much as   we're expecting too much out of them  
minnesota wisconsin  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's it is getting very expensive to run schools  
so  
they've got computers now that you got to train on  
there's just   so much uh more and less money to do it with  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i i guess that in uh  
talking on a lot of the things as far as the discipline in the schools i i think they're expecting schools to discipline the kids  
and uh i think it should go right back to the parents   if you don't train your kids right then  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i know when i uh was going to school it wasn't uncommon for a teacher to strike a student that was [misbehaving]  
i mean they do that now  
and they could probably lose their job  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
it seems that'd be a subject that i i don't have much to say on  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
i don't know  
maybe they should sit back and and kind of uh decide on where the money's best spent  
i know in a lot of cases uh different districts like to have nice fancy schools  
and maybe they should be a little more uh uh concerned with paying the right people to teach and and be uh satisfied with maybe a little older school  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i know uh where i came from we didn't have a very uh rich community  
and uh high school that i went to was very old  
and uh as far as i know it's still there  
they've expanded on it  
but they've never built a new one  
and it's probably fifty sixty years old or or better  
and   i don't foresee them uh building a new one for a long time because they can't afford it  
uh that might be a lot to do with it  
i know a lot of it here in my state  
i'm from mississippi  
i'm not sure where you're from  
minnesota  
okay  
well a lot of it in mississippi here has got to do with funding  
problems with our educational system a lot of it's due to money  
and they're trying to spend money where we don't have it  
and there's a lot of things we need that we just can't afford  
well it is  
right  
that's true  
and a lot of it lot of it has to do with uh salaries too speaking   of money  
cause if you can't pay the right people you know they're not to be able to do they're not not going to get the people that can do a good job  
right  
right  
i feel the same way  
a lot has to do with how the kids were raised at home  
and then when the kids get to school they try to take away a lot of things that they can do to discipline the kids  
i mean they've so severely limited  
what disciplinary action you can do  
exactly  
right  
lose their job and big lawsuit and all that  
i feel that's got a lot to do with it  
people aren't as afraid of [misbehaving] as they used to be  
really  
we we've talked some about it in my state because we've had a lot of uh  
our governor that just got thrown out of office was trying to be real big on education  
but he wasn't  
and a lot of his problems had to do with money mostly  
i know a lot a lot of  
if you have more money it's just logical that you can provide a better school system  
and unfortunately there's not many places to get that money  
then if you don't have qualified teachers in the different  
i know one of my physics professors at college has addressed this  
that most of the teachers at the elementary and high school level aren't scientists  
they're teachers  
and they may not know a lot about what they're teaching  
where they may have just had a teaching major and then had some social studies courses  
and they're trying to teach social studies  
and they don't know a lot about that  
where maybe a physics professor  
he my professor was a physics professor  
and he said a lot of teachers teaching physics today have no background of physics at the high school level  
so therefore they're teaching from a teacher's point of view and not from a [physicist] point of view  
and that causes a lot of trouble  
right  
exactly  
because i mean here in the town i went to high school  
one of the there were four high schools in my county one of the high schools was blown away by a tornado  
so when they rebuilt that school they had a a top of the line high tech school there  
and the other schools were built back in maybe the fifties or early sixties  
and then when uh the evaluation committees came through they praised the school that had been rebuilt while they were down grading all these other ones telling them what they needed to do to fix up this building  
and this and this and this and so it kind of would make you think that we'd all be better off if all the schools were blown away by tornadoes and we had to rebuild them  
right  
exactly  
okay  
what do you think of the public school system  
first off do you have children that are in it  
oh okay  
well then you should be a good one to know because i my children are grown now  
i now have grandchildren   in the school system  
so uh i don't have [firsthand] experience right now   with it  
so what do you think  
right  
that's right  
right  
yes  
it is  
i i agree with you that they're starting children so much earlier on things because our grandchildren  
we have a uh fourth grader  
and then we have one that's in kindergarten  
and and i know the fourth grader is doing stuff that our children was doing were doing in the fifth and sixth grade  
you know it's amazing   to me and stuff that i didn't do until i was in junior high   which of course shows my age  
is that scary  
right  
now  
yes  
correct  
are you finding that uh since you're doing substitute that you're wanting to do full time  
um i have a friend that's a teacher that one of her complaints is she can't teach because she's so busy filling out all the forms  
and and  
are you do you find that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
be  
uh_huh  
coming up  
uh_huh  
right  
well i i know that this again this this friend   uh is in the plano school district  
and she teaches uh uh it uh emotionally disturbed children  
and she says she has um six graders in there that are reading on the level of the second grade  
and   she says she's getting very frustrated and very depressed because the school is [pressuring] her to pass them on even though they're not ready  
but because evidently you receive a certain amount of money when they're passed on or something  
i didn't quite understand it  
and uh  
i have children that are in the plano public school systems  
and i am a substitute teacher at this point looking for a full time job in the public school   system  
so  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think the public school systems are doing a good job  
i think they have a long way to go yet  
but i think that um they are starting to head towards more technology and getting the kids computer [literate] earlier  
you know my kindergartners were on the were on the computers  
and i think that with the way the world is today that's got to be done  
and i think that uh the schools now are starting to teach thinking strategies more than just giving them you know skills  
you know   you don't just add one plus one  
you figure out why you're adding it and what you're going to do with it once you've got it together  
and i think that that's something that is drastically needed because most of these kids cannot think  
they literally cannot come in out of the rain  
you know and that just  
i don't care how intelligent you are if you be cannot make it function for you that intelligence is being wasted  
and uh this has been one of my pet peeves and probably why i went into education  
so i think you know they're they're trying to head them into teaching them to think and use the education that they have  
and i think that's very very important  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i tutor a girl that's in eighth grade  
and her pre algebra book is higher then some of my algebra two   when i was in high school  
and it's like oh i going to take this home and study it before i can help you  
you know so they're really they're really moving them along  
but yet at the same time you know they are stopping and making them use it and function with it like they would need to do in everyday life  
and that's you know  
a lot of the things that we did in school i've never used and never will use  
and uh so i think that it's it's appropriate to teach them you know why they are learning this not just because the teacher says you have to learn this  
yes  
that's a  
well filling out the forms and also all of these uh statewide and national wide testing   things so that they compare  
and you know you can as far as i'm concerned you can make a survey or test scores say anything you want it to say  
and it's just a matter of how you're going to interpret it  
and you waste so much time quote unquote teaching to the test to make sure that your scores are the very best they're possibly going to be   you know that i think it's uh i think it's crazy personally  
you know the the whole first nine weeks of school is is used as a review  
but more than a review they're getting those kids [primed] and ready for the tests that are coming up in   october so that you know your school district shines throughout the united states  
and i think that's totally useless  
i think you know there's a place and a time for all of the tests and [comparisons]  
but i think they've taken it to the extent now that it's just ridiculous  
it's like bragging on your grandchildren  
you know and everybody's kids are the best kids that have ever hit this earth  
and nobody else's children are going to ever live up to this  
and that's great  
but that's what they're doing with the school systems  
and they're wasting too much time on that i think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
there's a  
yeah  
the bottom line is always money  
how big is provo  
that a little town or or a bigger city  
oh  
i talked to someone that was only a couple of thousand in her town i think  
yeah  
i forgot the name of the town  
i thought maybe it was you  
oh well anyway we're supposed to talk about education  
i certainly have some ideas since i'm studying it now in college  
i'd say first of all they need to go back to spending more time on the basic reading writing [arithmetic]   in grade school  
because they really teach you about forty percent less than they used to  
and it shows up  
that's one idea  
do you have any  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's  
plano uh improved greatly in the last twenty twenty five years  
that's for sure  
it used to be the pits  
and arlington is excellent now  
but i'm just speaking overall   across the country  
something is definitely wrong  
and uh one thing they don't spend as much time just teaching reading and writing  
so a lot of kids are just being promoted from year to year  
and they truly can't read  
so i don't know how they expect them to uh pass history when they can't read anything you know even read a word problem in math  
so um that's definitely a problem  
another problem is you're going to keep the smarter people in the system too long paying the wages they do  
but um  
that is good about  
well it depends on where you are  
they're all so different  
that's another thing   about the united states  
there's no national curriculum you know  
i mean what they'd be teaching in an arlington school they may not be teaching in a plano school  
and in the same school district you may even in an arlington seventh grade for instance you may have an english class  
you may have half literature for the whole year  
whereas in another one they're going to concentrate on grammar   and give you a little literature  
it's up to the teacher in other words  
so that's kind of you know that's kind of odd to me  
it depends on uh what school you're in and who your teacher is actually  
or is how you end up  
overall arlington is good one of the better ones in the state  
so i guess we lucked out when we moved here  
uh_huh  
of course we have a slight problem in that uh the number of the [illiterate] in america is [mushrooming] at this point  
and uh you know where our kids might be in a great school we're still paying an awful lot of taxes for people who are on welfare and unemployment because they can't read you know  
so  
i don't know  
i just read about that the other day  
and i had never even thought of it  
actually it makes sense to a certain extent  
because sometimes like a third grade teacher will get kids from second grade that didn't even learn what uh  
they should to do the work that she is supposed to teach you know   and according to her plan  
so i guess if there was a national curriculum we'd at least have a certain amount that all kids would learn  
but uh we actually rank forty ninth in the world as far as just plain literacy goes you know  
that's that's pretty low that there's   forty eight countries ahead of us that have more more citizens percentage wise that can read and write  
so um unless we want to keep paying paying for these people that can't make it in society we're going to have to do something  
i don't know  
obviously nobody's smart enough to have figured it out yet  
so i probably can't  
but i do think that we have to cut out some of this [folderol] stuff and go back in the first five six grades and just keep going over and over and over until most of those that are capable can at least learn to read and write  
because they can't even get the menial job without being able to read something nowadays   you know  
uh you can't you can't even work an answering machine if you're at work and had to get a message or something you know or fill out an application to work at mcdonalds if you can't read  
so uh i think that's that's a start at least going back to the basics in the early grades  
and um they say that the average english student nowadays does at least fifty percent less reading and writing than they did twenty years ago  
and that's a big jump  
did you go to school in plano  
through high school  
um  
um it's not one of the bigger ones it's probably um i compare it to the size of plano maybe a little smaller  
plano texas  
oh really   no  
uh_huh  
um i don't know  
i'm pretty i think i'm pretty satisfied with um  
i i grew up in plano  
and and my dad is actually on the school board there  
so i kind of kept up with a lot of things that went on  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
so do you what do you think is good about the schools  
yeah  
uh_huh  
grammar  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so yeah  
that's the thing is just to look at the school system in the area that you move into before you  
uh_huh  
but do you think that there should be um nationwide um curriculum  
uh_huh  
right  
um  
yeah  
who do you think it should be done through     uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yes   yeah  
i believe that  
i did  
uh_huh  
uh  
okay  
uh so what do you think about the school system  
uh why did you choose a private school  
public school  
oh has he  
then how does he like it  
so   he's been there all the time  
how big of a school is it  
a hundred per grade that's a good size  
kind of gives them the you know  
i get a little leery of the real small ones that they don't get much interaction with kids  
but uh  
so they don't  
that's good  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
still enjoy the  
right  
uh one thing i think i've noticed is uh my oldest is in kindergarten  
so i'm in a little different   [ballgame]  
i'm just   starting her  
but uh seems to me that uh kids these days uh can really get away with murder  
and the teachers don't have as much aren't respected as much  
and uh they have to be so careful of the things they do and say  
and uh makes me   a little nervous that uh students don't seem to show that respect  
and  
no  
heavens  
no  
no  
you wouldn't  
and uh the things they can say and do to a teacher and they do from what i understand uh  
i think that's wrong  
i think we need to get back to the show some respect  
and course i guess the teacher used to warrant that  
but  
right  
for other people  
and  
well how do you think that that's happened  
you think our society's just uh stopped talking out  
or this uh   [generation's] just kind of changed a little bit uh  
right  
right  
that just isn't coming through   is it  
no  
i mean i remember uh well it was a big thing when they let girls wear [levi's]  
we used to have to wear   dresses  
and then you had to go to dresses  
they had to be a pantsuit  
and it was polyester  
and it had to be matching  
and  
yes  
exactly  
yes  
yes  
so it's really changed  
it's uh really kind of gone the rounds  
so i think that maybe that's effected it to some degree  
they say you kind of act how you're dressed a little bit  
so i  
do uh does this school your son goes to do they uh require to wear a uniform  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there are quite a few of your  
well i think they're they're having a lot of trouble right now  
i know my son goes to a private school  
but uh i think they're big city public schools by definition are having a a tough time right now just from uh probably from budget cuts and and everything else going on  
well i had one that was needed to be able to be moved along at a at a pace a little faster than he was going to be able to be moved in public school  
so   he's he has been going to private since kindergarten  
so  
oh he's loved it  
he is a senior in high school this year  
so   he's  
yeah  
he's done it the whole twelve and uh so many years  
and it's been uh it's been really good for him  
uh overall on campus about twelve hundred but in the upper school upper four grades uh about four hundred and something  
so it's maybe a hundred per grade  
yeah  
it really is  
yeah  
that was we were kind of looking for one that would be a mixture  
and   he's done he's done   really well  
and just he was just ahead at an early age  
and i didn't feel like uh in what was available particularly in the first three grades  
and even in the fourth grade where they started what they called reach was still a pull out one day program  
and i just didn't think that was going get it  
i thought he needed to be exposed to a situation where he could push ahead uh every day   but yet still be with his peers   age wise  
you're just   getting started  
yeah  
i know  
that's   a big problem  
we wouldn't have thought of crossing a teacher when we   were in school  
wouldn't have thought of it  
and   and they'll stand there now with them toe to toe  
and  
yeah  
but a lot of times it's not being taught in the home   anymore like it used to be basic respect for   for [elders]   and adults and particularly in in responsible positions have not uh i don't think have had that basic [upbringing] in a lot of cases  
and so then you wind up with little [brats] on your hands  
i guess i  
well the world changes  
so i mean obviously kids are not the same now as they used to be  
i mean they're exposed to a whole lot more things  
they have a whole lot more uh variety of things they they're that they see and do at an earlier age  
so life is not maybe as simple as it was at one time  
but but still i think it goes back to a commitment by the parents to to teach uh basic values and basic uh respectful of uh of authority  
and i just don't think that this   doesn't always get emphasized   anymore uh  
yeah  
had to wear   dresses didn't you  
and when it was skirts it was like get down on the floor  
and we hold the ruler up here  
and it's no   more than so many inches above the knee  
because it was mini skirt time back there at one time  
yeah  
i think that probably does have have something to do with it  
and it's also  
no  
they do not do uniforms although one where he was between like second and eighth grade   did  
um serious problems in the public education and what can be done about it  
uh   well i that's funny because i just um quit my job to stay home with my kids  
and um i was a teacher for seven years in the public schools  
so i know a little bit about it not   a whole great deal  
well um there there's some  
there's several  
it's such a a broad you know topic that you need to boil it down  
but um one that um i thought was a problem that i thought it was a serious problem that i'm not sure it's being taken care of right now uh was like bilingual education   for um different   um minority groups and like asians and um uh mexican americans and and just people in general that speak other languages that sometimes come from other countries or coming from different areas and they and in this area  
and um as the school district i'm not sure how to go about it because it's hard to get one teacher that speaks all these languages  
and so most of these children are put in um either special ed or a bilingual program and then for just a small amount of time  
and then they're into their regular classrooms the [remaining] of the part of the day  
and so the teachers are not sure how to teach them math when they don't read or speak english  
and so um a lot of the money isn't put into that  
and so these children are just kind of sat in the corner  
and um you know there's only so long you can do that  
and   to me that seemed like a big problem in the school districts  
and a lot of the teachers  
it it was not the teacher's fault  
a lot of the teachers were just not getting the [backbone] or support that they needed or the materials or the extra help that they needed for these specific children  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
oh definitely  
definitely  
and it and it teaches language too   which is really good um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh definitely  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i know richardson school district has a has a wonderful program in the remedial reading um where you know   of course all the children are tested in some   time portion of the year  
and and uh some children who need extra help are put into this um reading program  
and it is just excellent  
it is  
i wish that all the children could be exposed to that program you know  
and i i know that there are some parents that say how do i get my kids in that  
and yet they don't qualify  
but it's unfortunate that they don't qualify because i think everybody would benefit from these programs  
it is excellent  
so  
i have two little ones  
and   that's why i i quit my job  
uh you know i've been teaching since they were gosh [newborns]  
and and it just wasn't adding up  
and you know being a teacher and you see all these parents who are working and working and working and just you know don't have the time time time time  
it was kind of getting to me where where i'm doing the same thing  
and so um you know my children are getting older  
and i was missing out on a lot  
so i just decided to stay home for a while  
i don't know how long  
all right  
well what do you think  
oh  
well tell me about it  
what are   what are the problems with public education  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
do you find that those parents um  
i've seen the same thing and heard the same things  
and at the same time i've heard that it's even harder when both parents are required to work and can't spend you know that that time you know  
typically the mother was at home with uh the children and   and at least could kind of keep up on what's going on  
and really society sort of [dictates] that uh you know both the parents work  
and um i know i've heard some people talk about just the fact that even as far back as the you know the second and third grade uh if the kids had you know proper reading skills or learned proper reading skills that that would make a lot of difference  
yeah  
well i work at a university  
and and it's really tough when we're uh uh  
i i uh work at the university of texas at dallas  
and   uh we have uh some pretty selective admissions requirements for incoming freshmen  
and you know there are some students who are in the top ten percent of their class even some who are maybe you know in the top ten of their class  
and their s a t scores are very low  
and a lot of it has to do with their uh their reading ability you know   their their language  
and  
it uh makes it tough because you know when they come in with scores that low they may be uh good students  
but they just haven't achieved to their [fullest] potential  
and they're going   to fail unless some sort of remedial uh education is given to them  
so   and then it then it comes into well who's supposed to give it to them the colleges and universities or   are they supposed to get that back in the high schools and   the junior highs  
yeah  
yeah  
it sounds like it  
so how many children do you have at home  
oh  
yeah  
well that's good  
i uh spent four years as a university professor  
and  
yeah  
oh do you really  
that's great  
no kidding  

i did  
i did uh  
well i was pretty young  
i was uh  
i had never intended to do it  
and i was uh uh given the opportunity after i'd started a management consulting firm to teach in in uh uh one of the business schools in the california state university system  
at any rate uh the topic is fascinating because one of the things i've done for the past few years is uh research the problem from the point of view of uh uh what appears to be working best and how you can explain it theoretically  
you may be familiar with cooperative learning  
have you ever  
well the cooperative learning is a technique that was tried initially to [integrate] the public schools  
and uh what what it involves basically is the use of peer groups  
and the uh teacher becomes a uh a sort of a consultant resource person   to the cooperative learning uh to the learning [cooperatives] i guess they're called  
and there are uh some fairly sophisticated approaches that are used in the high schools with point systems and things like that so that people uh gain a [competence] with respect to the material  
uh i think that the combination of uh technology and techniques like that together with marketplace forces will bring about a revolution in the way we learn  
uh i think there is a direct threat to vested interest in the public school system uh that will stand in the way of that progress being a little faster  
uh school systems are in too many states dominated by administrators  
and uh both teachers and parents uh complain about the uh uh the cost and [ineffectiveness] that results  
so my feeling is that uh the the problem is is uh significant  
there are plenty of good people uh available to uh offer people educational experience  
but that we just have to [reallocate] and [reorganize] the resources to do it  
and uh i think certain techniques and technologies will influence all of that as well as research uh uh of the sort that people like me do looking at theories of behavior and how they can be used to improve performance particularly uh [accelerate] the the pace of learning  
and my feeling is that uh those kinds of things will solve the problem eventually  
i don't know what form it will ultimately take  
uh uh but i think that the future is pretty bright because people recognize that we're paying an enormous price for uh inferior quality when the people involved really aren't inferior  
so it must be the way we're managing the process that uh  
i i don't i don't think it's it's a matter of of uh talented people to do it both as quote unquote students and as teachers  
but clearly what's happened in this country is the school system's been asked to assume a great many responsibilities   in the past thirty years   that weren't [existent] uh  
you must see kids with real significant problems uh in some cases  
uh course i always see the  
i don't know how hard how hard is it uh in the public school system in iowa city  
is it is it uh deteriorated a lot  
do the people say  
are they pretty happy with it  
or  
right  
even in utah  
well utah's a place where you wouldn't think that problem would be very severe  
yeah  
you so you saw a fair number of troubled kids  
yeah  
yeah  
oh   really  
i i spent three years  
i'm teaching in public schools and elementary school  
uh_huh  
i taught in utah  
and uh   did you   teach in california  
uh_huh  
you sound pretty young for a university professor  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you can you can tell me a little bit more about it because i don't think we did that in utah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i see what year saying  
yeah  
i totally agree  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
well i i haven't taught in iowa  
but i've taught in utah  
and uh people there were saying that the way that the schools were going a lot of people were going away and going to private schools or else going to home where they taught their kids at home   or you know anything but the public schools and the ones that did have you know the kids  
yeah  
well   well uh maybe it was the area i was in  
but a lot of schools had a lot of transient uh families and a lot of families who were on the poorer side  
and  
yeah  
i mean like you said how they were the schools are doing more things for the kids they thought than they were thirty years ago  
i mean they were the school i was teaching at the the year i left they were considering providing hot lunch for or   hot breakfast for the kids  
as well as hot lunch  
and  
our topic today  
right  
and now i'm sort of don't know if this an advantage or disadvantage  
my wife's a school teacher  
so  
no  
you go right ahead because i   have a lot of strong opinions on it too  
my wife teaches seventh grade  
and you know there is a lot of serious things wrong with the school system today and the teaching system  
i think the  
i don't think the teachers get enough support quite honestly  
but uh for example my wife she has kids that are on drugs  
and of course like everyone she has kids that get pregnant even even in the seventh grade  
plano school system  
but to give you an example uh you know one of her kids will come in and he's you could tell he was just bombed out on drugs  
and uh she sends him to the principal's office  
and the principal sends him right back or her right back and says hey your problem you take care of it  
you're not allowed to send them home  
you know if you do that then your [allocation's] cut from the state or the feds or whatever  
your your  
you have to have a certain amount of kids in your class every day  
and it's it's it's a numbers game  
i don't think that's right if they're especially if they're [interrupting] the class and preventing other kids from learning  
yes  
sure  
sure  
oh yeah  
my son had such a tough time in uh the school he went to  
but there was through  
it wasn't all the school's fault  
it was his fault also  
but we put him in a private school in richardson  
and that that cost more  
that was five thousand dollars a semester for three semesters  
that was more than his college tuition was  
but uh it had to be done  
at least it took care of him and uh threw him in a good learning situation where he did participate and uh want to learn something  
but i'll tell you what there's a there there are a few [faults] to say the least in the school systems today  
yeah  
i think we have that problem dealing in most areas which is unfortunate  
you bet  
you bet  
sure  
well teachers you know they have a a tough row to hoe so to speak they just always fighting the system  
i don't know if it's better than any  
you know we came down to texas from the uh new york area  
we were there for a short time  
but my wife is from new york  
and she was born and raised there and educated there college and everything  
and i think you know the schools in the east are really a whole lot better than the schools in the south i don't care where you're from  
and they they  
i don't know if they learn more  
but they certainly uh they have a tendency to learn more  
and in that part of the country there is all nationalities  
uh yeah  
something about the school system here  
well then i'll uh i'll walk [softly]  
yeah  
what school system does she teach in  
oh wow  
well i think it's more of a  
there's a bigger problem here than uh than discipline in the schools  
i think it gets back to the uh parental participation into the program  
um to give you an example both of my children are in the academy system in the garland school district  
and it's a public system however you'd think that it was a private school because i take it the best teachers and the best students  
they're taking top three percent that have tested out you know in the district and uh put them in this academy system  
and to get into the system's very difficult  
but once you're in uh they have they have self paced programs  
and so you have students that want to learn  
and uh you have teachers that want to teach  
and you have parents that are really interested in the children  
and basically uh there's probably some discrimination if you want to say that   uh because most of the people that are in the academy system uh are [caucasian] and because you have to test into the system  
and most of  
that's not all true  
but i'm saying a large percentage of them are  
and also the other large percentage is is that all the parents just about of these kids uh have college degrees at least one parent does  
and so there's  
i think that uh that's my justification for saying that the parents that are that are pushing their children at home even if they don't know what their children are learning they're they're saying do your homework let me see it don't get in trouble at school or we're going to be all over you  
yeah  
yeah  
i think what we've done is um um especially looking at um the south dallas area is that we're trying to bring the education level down to the lowest level so that the lowest level can succeed  
and um that also probably crosses over into business because now businesses also say that if you're not don't have the proper education uh including uh exposure to high tech fields   such as computer technology if you can't use a computer today and do word processing and do uh data base management and do i forget all the other stuff financial management and all this other kind of stuff in your regular job uh you can't function   you know  
so i think that the school system [proliferates] over to the business world  
and the business world then says we're not going to pay you unless you have the education  
and then  
and then then we what we've done is caused a big problem that [proliferates] itself  
okay  
well i have uh two kids  
i have one seven and one five  
and uh they're in a public school here in tyler  
and uh i'm happy with it  
i'm happy with the school  
it's great  
good teachers  
good curriculum uh  
they learn a lot  
they have no problems uh  
but i do live in the better well in the best part of the city  
though i live in you know the real [richy] part i guess  
i'm not  
but everybody around me is  
and uh but they're  
i have friends that live in the other the less fortunate or whatever you want to call it part of town  
and their schools are kind of [rundown] and uh older  
and they don't really offer as much i don't know as uh the school that my girls are in  
i don't really think that's fair   you know  
uh but you know i'm happy with what they're in  
so go ahead  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
also uh the the family environment  
you know you can come to south tyler where i live  
and you have got room mothers in every room  
you've got art mothers  
you've got every every holiday  
there's parties  
all these kids have these really supportive really supportive parents always up there for   something  
you can go to north tyler to the schools  
and the parents might not could even tell you what their kid's teacher's name is   you know  
uh that has a a whole lot to do with it you know  
as far as their learning i mean if the parents aren't uh you know willing to go with the kids and find out what they're learning and if they're learning   you know they really don't have much of a chance   at all  
huh  
why you asking  
you they just don't  
i mean i mean i'm i'm up there at my kids' school  
i know what they're learning  
and if they're up i call and find out you know  
is she having problems  
does she need help with anything  
no  
she's doing fine  
okay you know uh  
and i i know kids that their parents could really give a rip  
and the kids   are not motivated  
they have no motivation from home  
so they just go to school  
and you know eh you know i'll get through the day and uh bring homework home  
and there's nobody to to sit them down and say you're going to do this  
uh just you know they they take a notion to do it  
they do  
and uh that doesn't work either you know  
they have to have guidance  
and   uh they can't just have it at school and then come home  
and there's nothing you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
you go first  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
it it's it's pretty much what i was going to say  
is there's a lot of disparity between different neighborhoods and what sort of schools go in  
uh i grew up in new york  
and   uh the place  
or not new york city upstate new york  
and i went to uh the city of rochester school district  
and a lot of my friends were in one of the neighboring suburbs  
and it wasn't we weren't too far removed [geographically] from each other  
but the difference in schools i think was pretty substantial  
and uh one of the things that probably would have been better if is if the entire county had had had just one school system  
and that would result in some uh could result in more equitable distribution of money  
because what was happening was you know all the very rich people went out to the move out to the suburbs  
and the city had a very low tax base so they didn't have a lot   of money to work with  
as a result the schools were [rundown]  
there wasn't as many you know of the nice supplies in science class that we would have liked  
there wasn't as many advanced placement courses uh when i was a senior   that some other schools had  
and uh it it  
so i you know i think that one of the things one of the ways to to to help schools in general uh and get them all to a minimum level of of of competency almost would be to expand the size of school districts so you get a wider variety of people  
and the the problem with that is then then then people will either the rich people will either pull their kids out of the public school and put them in private schools or   they'll move farther away   to get better schools  
so you know it it's kind of you end up chasing like a dog chasing its own tail sort of  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
why is that  
why is that  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i know that that that was a big factor for me  
i ended up coming out of of the public school system very well   and was very good education uh  
ended up getting some scholarships to go to college and   which has been you know which is really nice  
and   i think the difference for me was that my parents were you know they were definitely they were always there  
was like well  
yeah  
of course you're going to study and do well  
and that's the way  
of course are you  
i don't know  
uh i haven't  
it's been uh well seventy nine since i was at school   at high school  
and uh i've seen things change  
i don't know if i've seen things change enough that i can actually  
because i wasn't really like listening to the world go by back then  
so it's hard to compare  
you know what i mean  
but uh it seems like when i i lived in chicago  
i i've lived down here  
i hear the dropout rates from the schools  
and i certainly see how much i pay in real estate taxes every year  
and i begin to wonder if i'm really getting my money's worth  
i mean i i've seen so many different things so so many different bad reports coming out of the school system  
and i recognize that there are good schools out there  
i mean somebody's   getting getting a good education because we   continue to employ people  
but uh i don't i don't understand the uh i don't understand i guess why the schools seem to have such a high dropout rate in the big cities  
i don't know if i blame it on the school  
i think i think i blame it i think i blame it on a couple of different things  
i think i blame it on the school system uh  
yeah  
i don't blame it on the teachers in the school  
i although i think that  
i do know for a fact that some of the teachers that i know personally get paid an awful lot more than  
well they do quite well for themselves  
no  
not all school districts are well paid  
but there are some school districts out there that are very well paid  
i mean i know one family that's got  
they're both teachers  
and they both have   like second jobs   that they work in the afternoons  
they both work all summer full time  
and from their teaching job alone they pull in forty grand each  
i mean that family is making over a hundred grand  
and i'm  
i mean okay  
okay  
yes  
i agree that teaching our kids is important  
however these people who only work eight hours day at it from seven to three  
and they only work nine months a year  
and they get an awful lot of breaks in between  
and that's my tax dollars that i'm spending on that  
and i don't even have kids  
uh well having  
sort of the reason we're going through the school system  
i seem to be younger than most people who who talk on this thing  
i'm i'm just graduating graduating from college  
uh i didn't really perceive much of a of a problem with the school system  
however when you compare it to school systems like they have in japan and  
you can compare just about thing to japan  
and we look like we don't have anything  
uh it seems to be not difficult enough for students not challenging enough and just not generally competitive enough  
uh however i if it weren't for our needless uh competition with japan i i'd i'd think that that the school systems system works at a pretty good pace  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
huh  
right  
uh well i don't pretend to understand that either  
uh but i'm not quite sure that it's the kind of thing that ought to be blamed on the schools  
but then again i'm not quite sure where the blame ought to be put uh because the the dropout rate is in those areas  
it's high in those areas where also there's poverty and and crime  
and they all seem to go together  
and it seems like if you could eliminate one of of the parts of that circle whether where you have the dropout rate and crime and you know general poverty kind of conditions that things ought to get better  
so uh the other two  
they're all three social issues and could be addressed by the government in any ways and clearly to me is a kind of government thing to to fix  
but it's just like i i don't expect them to know which which which part is best to fix just like i don't know  
it's it's a complicated issue  
i i still don't think i would blame it directly on the school  
well that's i meant when i said the school  
huh  
well that's odd because i don't think the teachers in my school district uh were well paid  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it it  
right  
yeah  
well that's true  
but there's  
you can always play games with uh talking about whoa look at this  
my tax dollars are paying for this  
this is wrong  
but when you're  
and there's really not much you can directly do about that  
i think that that if if there is a problem with the school system uh from it's been my perception that the school teachers and school officials are not that well uh paid that perhaps that might be one area that that could be improved  
uh  
you have other professional jobs  
and this is a profession  
and as a matter of fact it's a pretty big influence on on  
recently graduated from high school meaning like uh you know three or four years ago  
i'm a senior in in uh college now  
and uh i can't really talk too much about the problems with uh public education in detail because the school system i went to was uh really [superb] even though it was a public school   system  
oh  
okay  
yeah  
i got a friend who goes there by the way  
i want to talk to you about that afterward  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
it was a a it's a more or less a suburban school system  
yes  
that that was true for mine too  
uh although i i'm sure to some extent that money is part of the problem in the disparity  
but i don't think i honestly don't think that's the biggest part of it  
you know i   think that uh i mean i know that in my town you know most of the most of the parents they're valued education  
and uh   you know and so the students were you know to some extent motivated to learn  
i mean   you know  
yeah  
that's true  
but but uh i think i mean even more than that even i mean if you drop out in high school   you should still be able to read you know   which it i mean it sounds like uh  
now i think maybe it's started changing in the past few years because uh they have of these uh sort of mandatory tests if you have to take before you get   a diploma  
but uh   but uh certainly before that there were people that you know would graduate from high school and could barely read  
uh and that's just sort of inexcusable  
and you can't really  
i i i mean i just can't even picture how that could happen   you know except maybe to someone whose you know really badly learning uh disabled or something  
but these people obviously weren't  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and i think that's almost a bigger factor   than anything else probably  
i mean i don't i think you know people just  
yeah  
and again i don't i mean  
they got to know the you know how qualified i mean  
i think it'd be interesting   to you know to spend a couple of days just looking around an inner city school uh you know sort sort of maybe from elementary through uh high school   you know just sort of to get a feel for what it's like  
i think that'd be an interesting experience  
but uh i haven't done that  
but i do i do think that uh i mean public education in general i think can work  
and i think it's a good thing  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i don't i honestly don't really think i could have you know done much better than i did in the school system i was in   i mean  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean and and in the  
once you book junior high uh start junior high starting in eighth grade all the way through high school there were four levels  
well no  
i guess it in junior high it was still three  
then in high school it changed into four levels of uh of instruction in the major subjects   uh which  
i mean actually i think that works pretty well  
and that that makes  
uh_huh  
really  
yeah  
i feel that my uh  
i'm a junior in college now  
and   i go to tech georgia tech  
and i  
okay  
uh i've  
the high school i went to was uh was a good one also  
and i well i guess you could say one of the problems with the public education system is the disparity between different schools  
because the one i went to was you know i'm sure a a lot nicer than you know a lot of the inner city schools and   the things around atlanta  
yeah  
what  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
and i'm also  
i mean in the in those places where uh like the economy is really bad they might you know be more tempted to to quit school and get jobs and that kind of thing because they need the you know money to put food on the table and stuff like that more than they would you know in areas where they  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
right  
yeah  
that's hard for me to say since i didn't   i didn't really grow  
well when i went to elementary school it it wasn't in a great area  
but i still i mean i learned to read started learning to read when i was in kindergarten you know  
so i guess i can't really   i can't say what it would be like to uh grow up in a really [oppressed] region  
you know i guess the whole the whole environment and attitude towards school and learning is different for the people  
so i guess the problem is the the thing to do is to try to uh to get some kind of motivation to learn  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
i i can't say that i have either  
but uh  
yeah  
i've i've heard some i mean i've heard statistics and things that that compare a public education to a private education i mean within like within the same uh income groups  
if you compare the like the people that could have that could have sent their kids to private schools and the people that you know the people that uh did send their kids to private   schools  
i think they compare you know fairly well  
yeah  
i i i my schools i mean there  
i have a lot of  
once once it seemed i got into high school they had a lot of uh [accelerated] programs and all kinds of   stuff like that  
that i mean that makes a big difference  
cause i wondered when they're taking classes with uh with people that are really are interested in the the subject and stuff like that  
uh_huh  
think about this  
i do  
uh  
so you see a big difference then in before and   now do you  
or  
a lot of testing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i do too  
i oh i think that's awful  
i know  
what's the new criteria huh  
we have all kinds of testing  
and it's over and over  
it's i t b s or and uh just everything everything  
and they test test test  
i live in plano actually  
and i don't know if you've heard of plano  
but   it's a very transient community  
a lot of people from everywhere  
it's just north of dallas  
and it's grown in leaps and bounds  
i we must have maybe a hundred and fifty thousand people now  
and most of them from other places  
uh j c penney's come down from new york and of course t i and xerox from rochester  
and we just   have lots of people from everywhere   lots of industry coming in  
and it's a very wealthy community  
uh not that i am  
but other people seem   to be  
and i would love to know why  
but i mean they do  
they have  
i i would  
i really would  
i mean they just have beautiful beautiful homes  
and they have everything  
the kids only wear name brand things to school  
and it's one of these things  
well it does you know  
it really does because i'm a single mom and i have a thirteen year old now  
and   uh you know it does  
i mean we do it to a point  
but   uh not to where she feels different  
but   some of them are very rich  
and so uh we just kind of have   everything here  
and we have a very goal oriented population because their parents are  
and so i don't know how much of it   is us and how much of it is texas  
but the kids are expected to excel in   everything  
and it's almost impossible because you have so many children and just so many activities that everybody can't be first  
and they're   expected to be  
you know their parents expect it  
the teachers expect it  
texas wants very badly to be considered tops in the school system  
and if you read national surveys they're far from it  
and so there's just a whole lot of testing and a whole lot of pushing to do well on these tests  
well not very well  
they bring home notes that say they have to get a good night's sleep   and eat right in the morning before   tests  
i mean they make a big deal  
to me the paper should just be put on the desk that day  
and say just do this  
you know i just feel they do better that way  
and  
yeah  
and and i have older children too that now are out of high school  
and they've always done this here  
i mean it's always been the same  
but it is it's getting worse and worse  
is more pressure for everything  
and i just think it's really awful  
and i i'm with you on that  
you don't hear too many people say this  
but i think it's a very long day  
and my feeling is that you know you're only a kid once and you don't want to   spend your whole life in school  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and i don't think that's right  
i think we should do what europe does and include cultural activities in our school system  
i don't think i should have to pay for dancing lessons gymnastics piano  
i would like to see those things included in our school system   because i think we should have well rounded kids   not just book smart kids  
and so i just find this a real problem  
i think if they're going to be there all day they should find time  
one of my daughters once was out of school with [mono] in her junior year i think it was  
and she had a home teacher for like four hours a week  
and when she went back in six weeks she was ahead  
so what   does that tell you  
it tells you there's a whole   lot of wasted time  
and they could be using this time better  
uh_huh  
that's a very long day for kindergartners  
but i think that working parents have kind of demanded this  
you know because they don't they don't want to send them to daycare  
that's why they want them there because them somebody takes care of them all day  
we have them at one school like  
uh do you have children in school  
uh i have two that are uh now just about ready to graduate from college  
but i also have two that are just entering school  
uh   uh well   i think they're just pushing them entirely to fast  
uh well it seems to me that kindergarten is now the equivalent of first grade  
my son leaves the house at seven thirty and doesn't get home until three o'clock  
and i think that's such a long day for a [kindergartner]  
and uh i have a [preschooler]  
uh i was told by her preschool teacher that she thought maybe she was to immature for kindergarten  
and i thought well how mature do you have to be  
and uh there is a  
do you have the standardized testing now  
yeah  
no  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
you would like to know what they're doing right  
oh me  
well that makes it hard for you doesn't it  
oh me  
yeah  
it's hard to explain to them why you can't  
right  
oh dear  
right  
right  
how about the kids  
how are they coping with it  
huh     right  
yeah  
rather than   anticipating  
oh it is  
that's right  
my son said that came home  
and he said he said mom all we do is work  
we hardly ever play  
and  
oh likewise  
right  
wouldn't that be great  
uh_huh  
right  
is that right  
oh my gosh  
oh my gosh  
well for example in my son's kindergarten they're really finished at lunch time  
after lunch they have some uh  
i'm trying to think if they have recess after lunch  
and then they have naps or rest period  
and uh i think either send them home or do something   a little more interesting  
i agree  
i wouldn't be surprised  
i doubt if they would say it was too long  
uh do you have the before school care   at your school and the after school care  
yeah  
i guess uh uh it's an easy one for me  
i think that's uh there's something seriously wrong  
yeah  
uh i guess uh i think they've lost their [compass]  
and uh i'm not sure they know exactly what uh uh public education supposed to be for anymore  
but uh i voted with my feet  
and uh my kids go to parochial school  
so uh  
well one hundred percent of the uh customers care  
that's one thing  
everybody cares about the education the kids are getting  
and uh they uh take an active relatively active part  
which uh i mean if you're uh sending two thousand dollars that way every year you uh watch what goes on and you uh uh pay attention and participate  
and and you can influence the way things are  
yeah  
the [immediacy] just isn't there  
and uh uh i also think that one of the problems  
and actually i don't think this i think this is a cultural problem  
the uh problem with public education is really uh really a problem with the culture  
and i guess my evidence for that is the school districts in places like california for example where only a minority of the taxpayers have children in school  
and you can't get a tax levy passed  
uh people are uh reluctant to pass uh school tax [levies] even uh when the money is needed or would be well spent because it's uh they don't have kids in the schools  
i think that's a a loss of civic virtue and a loss of uh uh the cultural attitude that we used to have that education was first even if it wasn't our kids  
i think that's uh that's the principal problem is that uh people no longer see it as uh as their problem  
and there's an immediate problem  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i i believe that the original idea of public education in the united states which i guess was controversial at the time of the constitution  
uh you know it barely made it  
i think it was added afterwards  
i think the real the principal was uh education for civic participation  
the idea was that everybody should have an education so that they would be a better voter  
and you couldn't pull the wool over their eyes  
well that's exactly what i was going to say  
now there seem to be really three reasons for education  
one is education for civic duty  
one is education for economic reasons  
and one is education for civilization  
i mean and i think that one  
that's what i used to think education was all about when i was a college professor  
and then i quit and got [disabused] of that notion  
but uh the uh uh now the only thing people seem to agree on is that education is uh an economic enterprise to train people for jobs  
and uh i'm not sure that people in the education establishment really know what their purpose is  
and i'm really sad to say this  
i never thought i would have  
but i really think that uh the educational establishment has become part of the problem  
and uh that's why i guess i'm sort of reluctantly uh in favor of these uh choice programs  
right  
that's what  
what is it that you are you know particularly upset about  
uh_huh  
what do you feel that your kids are getting in the parochial schools that they wouldn't get in a the public school system  
so you're saying that the taxpayer who also is really paying through the [pocketbook] for the education of the child may not be quite so conscious of the fact that they are paying the tuition for that child in the form of uh real estate or other taxes  
and and consequently they're not so motivated to get involved and make sure things happen the way they'd like to see them happen  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
it troubles me too that the priority seems to be with my particular purse strings rather than the public good  
and by definition for some of us at least the public good includes having an educated [populace] and then   idea that uh you can make a sound judgment with respect to small votes in the at the local level or bigger votes at   the national level  
uh it means that you've got to be informed  
and you've got to have a certain level of education to do the reading   and the critical thinking involved to come up with a decision  
right  
right  
it has taken on a more profound  
and you'd think we'd notice it economic uh [thrust]  
yeah  
well i'm glad that you added that one  
yeah  
i think that one's significant  
right  
well i i agree with everything that you've said so far  
and the only that i'd want to add is that i'm a little more in contact i think with public school teachers than perhaps you are uh except as a parent of your child  
and the sense that i get from public school teachers that i know is that they are very conscious of what they feel they should be doing  
and they are the three things that you mentioned  
but they find that they are also being asked to do a bunch of other stuff which they think is only [tangentially] related  
like consumer  
okay  
i'm here  
how do you feel about public schools  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting  
i have a sister who used to live in [kennesaw] georgia  
and uh she has a young boy actually has two boys now but only had one when she was there  
and she complained quite a bit about their school system there  
and  
right  
right  
i'm  
i can't really say much about the schools up here  
i really don't come from here  
i'm only up here temporarily on an internship  
but   uh i live in orlando florida usually  
and the schools down there from what i know are not bad  
they're pretty good  
but i know that in some i know in a lot of rural areas they're not that good  
for example i have a brother in north carolina  
and he says the schools there are are incredibly bad uh just terrible  
huh  
wow  
that is slow  
uh_huh  
what do you think's wrong to cause that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
perhaps  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's one thing i worry about  
there you go  
uh_huh  
yeah  
probably quite a few black people up there  
and and  
oh is that right  
oh okay  
yeah  
but you know it it's  
you don't want to seem racist or prejudice or whatever  
but then again  
yeah  
there is no [denying] that that  
sure you know  
teachers you have to admit that teachers have to slow things down for people who don't understand especially if there's not a very well developed special education program at the school  
that's right  
you can't do that  
right  
see i grew up in nebraska  
and the school that i went to there was fantastic  
it  
i i really consider myself very very lucky  
uh we had a school that had classes probably about the same size you're talking twenty seven thirty kids to to a class  
but  
yeah  
we [zipped] right along you know  
i i   was i was doing [mathematics] fractions and division and [multiplication] by the third grade easily  
uh  
uh_huh  
but you're right you know  
with all this don't hurt the kids and don't abuse their rights you've also taken   something away from the discipline i think  
yeah  
right  
i was going to ask you if there if that was an option  
well our public schools are are really poor i feel  
uh i'm not sure where georgia ranks in the nation  
but uh we're toward the bottom  
and uh there's a lot of things that i see that are so obviously wrong   that you would think it would be easy to correct  
but the system doesn't allow for the [corrections]  
how about you  
oh yes  
yes  
and cobb county is better than the county i'm in  
she was in cobb county  
uh_huh  
okay  
well that's great  
uh_huh  
well i feel that we're way behind  
uh i have a son that is in the fourth grade  
and uh they have just now taken up division  
yeah  
and  
uh  

my husband and i go to the store  
and we buy these math books and fractions and [multiplication] division things  
and i feel like uh there are several areas that we're just really really slow in  
and uh i don't blame the teachers as much as i blame the system  
it is  
well well for one thing there's not enough money in the school system  
and the money they do have they're not they do not use it [wisely]  
uh she my son's teacher has twenty seven students  
and that's certainly is a lot of students for one person to deal   with on an every day basis uh  
but more than that i don't think that they have the authority to command the attention of the children  
and when you have two kids in that class that constantly keeps the class in an uproar and you're not at liberty   to do something about it other than give them on campus isolation or send them to the principal's office it   it you know it can it can really be bad  
uh also i think we have a lot of uh hispanics  
and we have a lot of uh  
the county i am i'm in the minorities are mostly hispanic  
no  
we're from a county we're from the county they [marched] in  
we're in [forsyth] county  
yes  
and we  
and there's very very few blacks  
uh so so that's uh  
i i hate to say uh  
it's not a problem uh because i hate to feel like they are a problem although they are  
but it is a problem   uh especially in the inner schools inner city  
well  
and you can't put all the children in special education  
uh and if the parents do not care enough to take an interest in whether the homework is done   you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but your teacher had control  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i   believe i was too  
uh_huh  
uh well it it really is a concern of mine because if we could afford it my son would be in private school  
we just cannot afford it  
uh if  
exactly
smaller classrooms possibly exactly
i would
when i was in school
uh i was supposedly in one of the best school systems in the country in [fairfax] county
and i'm i think back
and i i don't feel like i i could have learned a lot more and don't feel like i learned as much
i've only been out of school high school for four years
but i think i could have learned a lot more
and i i worry about the children that are in the other school systems that aren't as good
uh i don't know any particular ones
but you know when when they say that one of the where i went to school was one of the best counties
then i think
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i know uh i know with uh i think teachers need to be paid more i have a lot of friends who and myself who thought about going into elementary education and to teaching
and then they looked and saw how much money they got and said well there's a lot of other things i could do
making a lot more money
uh_huh
exactly
uh_huh
uh_huh
and and i mean that their their day doesn't end you know when school's out
uh_huh
uh_huh
i mean they they uh go home and grade papers lesson plans prepare for the next day
i'm an interior design major
yep
so
exactly
in may
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
i think that's about it
you too
all righty
you too
thank you
yeah
yeah
what what do you said you think there're some improvements
what do you think the improvements have been
uh_huh
i think the problems that i see in the system uh are
i i tend to see more in uh large inner city school districts that uh
and i've i've noticed that uh suburban or rural schools tend to have much fewer problems at least what i from what i hear
than than than the inside the city school districts
and so i think the problem isn't so much the school system as in the things that go on around it
yeah
uh_huh
well my my personal opinion is that so many parents especially those parents who are in a lower income and have to spend more of their energy on work
they say well i don't have to teach my kids anything
the school's going to do it for me
and i think the school can't do that the school can only exist as something to help the parents out
not something to take the parents' place
um that that can be yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
um that you know kind of goes along
it's it's a small enough school where people can know each other and and they work together to [thwart] off problems
when you've got a high school with you know three four thousand students um there's just no
it's it's very difficult to keep track of them all
yeah
yeah
the
i i find that i i haven't seen any cases where that's been very effective and that seems to be what people want to do is just you know put more money into it
and i just don't have a whole lot of confidence in that
i also you know i consider for example the the teachers the national education association you know they i would like to see them be more of a professional organization rather than a union because we you know we we need to uh instead of worrying about saving jobs or raising salaries i think we need to worry about uh how well the job's getting done
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh but you know back to the idea of parents my personal feeling is that parents need to be taking more responsibility
i think the way i like to look at it you know a lot of people look at it is
well whose job is it to teach the kids
well it's the school's job
i think whose job is it to teach the kids well primarily it's the parents job because the kids spend more time with the parents than they spend at school
and the school is just there to help the parents
so i think the number one responsibility is on the heads of the parents
and and we need to get to the idea
well if the kids are are doing poorly in school then the parents need to take some sort of responsibility and take some sort of action instead of just complaining about what the school is doing or not doing
and sometimes if the parents don't like the way the school is being run the appropriate action is to have the choice to take that kid out of that school and put him in a different school
yeah
that's in small communities that's a
difficult choice
but then the small communities are the ones with fewer problems
yeah
it's it's the big cities that have these kind of problems
and there
i like to see the parents be able to have a choice saying i don't like the way this school is being run i want to send my child to some place where they'll be properly uh properly taught and properly uh trained
some parents are but some parents don't have the opportunity to do that as easily you know people that are working two jobs
or single parents
uh that sort of thing
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
and you know what it feels like to come home after a long day at work
you you want to rest for a little while
and maybe the children uh don't want you to rest
yeah
and it's it's a difficult problem
and it's one that basically i think in large measure it's it's it's up to the parents to take the responsibility for what's happening to their children's education i think
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and here in texas
if you don't like football
you're considered a [heretic] yes
that was going to be my guess
uh_huh
all right
well thank you for the call
uh well we don't have children
but um from what our peers tell us
um most of them do are not in favor of the way the dallas public well i shouldn't get specific the way the public education system is run here
um they just don't feel that um the quality of the teachers and the quality of the uh curriculum
and they actually send them to uh the suburban areas
i i guess it's okay if i say the area plano
um and i think one thing that the state's doing right now about the [refunding] i think is completely unfair it's not that i
yeah
yeah
is that the basic reason you don't agree with it
yeah
yeah
and they're already paying for it
i mean i you know um i know we used to live in garland
and a lot of the people there sent their kids to private school because um they just didn't like what was going on
uh_huh
i know it
i mean i look at high schools like um what was the one in richardson j j [pearce] high school that just won the national academic some kind of um uh championship or tournament that they had for academics and that richardson is one of the school districts that would be hit by taking away from them
that's a good way to say it the robin hood um approach
yeah
you know i used to work at e d s and ross perot you know the big joke
sometimes um about him
but the one thing he did a few years back in testing the competency of the uh faculty i still think that's a good idea because i don't i don't know did you go to school in texas
and i went to school in chicago
so i can tell you it's probably the same type of thing that um i had a really good education
but it wasn't where i went to high school it was an inner city
but it the faculty was very good
right
uh_huh
which is understandable
i mean i'd go where i would be compensated the most
yeah
i mean it's
yeah
in texas
i don't know
i don't if it's because of um the influx of minority uh in terms of that they're trying to please all people
and their not [pleasing] anybody you know i don't know if that's what it is
i don't know
i'm not really
yeah
i mean i don't know if that's exactly it or not
but it seems to be a little bit more um well i don't know schools in wisconsin
i'm trying to think of some of the things i know about the schools up north compared to down here
it just seems like down here that unless you're in a suburban entity their s a t scores their reading comprehension levels
they're just not as high
uh_huh
uh_huh
and mine was uh mine was completely um hispanic in terms of puerto rican uh [caucasian] and eastern european
um
it was very eclectic um but the teachers were
what did curriculum
i mean they had things like philosophy and journalism i mean
but there wasn't a uh real for people such as myself that knew they wanted to go to school and knew they wanted to um go to a fairly competitive undergraduate program
it wasn't what i would call a uh a career a academic [preparatory] path for college prep um as opposed to suburban schools like evanston illinois which has one of the largest you know uh student bodies in the country
and the and the money base to go with it
um i don't know
i just look at high schools like plano east and west
and the ones in richardson
and i think well you know i would send a child there
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i mean my high school did have honors programs and i was in it
but it really you know in terms of
i'm wondering how much different
it was compared to in terms of city now there is a high school um is it w t t white
or is it jefferson i don't know that much about the dallas high school system
um but i have heard that the of one or two that are very good
but out of how many you know fifty to sixty high schools
it's just um
and then i read the other day that plano was going to be the site for a possibly new um parochial or catholic high school
something like to be one of the largest ones in the southwest or something
yeah
uh_huh
do they see and are they in plano
or are they in dallas
okay
yeah
yeah
that's one of the more um yeah
i have some friends that uh have younger children
and they send them to the montessori system
um
and when you hear what they're paying you just
oh my goodness
yeah
twelve years
and you add more than one child to that
and you say oh my goodness
yeah
i
this is true
yes
i can personally relate to that
yes
uh_huh
i don't know
i think one thing the united states does um my [stepfather's] from england and one thing they do their at least in in the section of london where he was from that
they um they actually they call them [externships] but they actually the child's um they go by forms they don't go by grades
and i guess i guess what would be the equivalent of our early high school nine tenth grade
they call it the tenth of eleventh form um they actually are forced to take time off and pick an area of study it's [proctored] it's you know regulated and all that sort of thing
um but they actually are supposed to go to the library and do their own thing on a particular subject
and it doesn't matter what it is it has to be academic but they
it's free of their choosing right
in that one just for that one particular semester quarter or what ever you know that one quarter uh a study unit would be
and i don't know
i don't think we do enough of that here in terms of getting children to think independently
uh_huh
oh my
uh_huh
see yeah that's kind of what i'm talking about
i mean um uh i mean we can only speak from personal experience
and i'm not bragging either
but it's the same thing
i mean i took a p or advanced placement classes
and there were things that i probably knew about in other segments but they just didn't offer them
i mean they offered them in things like english and chemistry two things that were obscure to what i was interested in in terms of um a career um i think part of the thing about schools today is too is the way the families have gone down the tubes the structure
that now teachers play police officers you know their parenting their [disciplinarians] you know
and i'm doing all this second hand we don't have any kids in school or anything
so i can't
uh_huh
isn't that something i mean are parents
i mean my folks were divorced too
but i can't remember ever
i mean it was sort of just like uh you knew you had to study or you just didn't oh goodness
i mean i wouldn't want to be growing up
now a days
that's one thing
um but i don't know how you solve that you know those are social problems the academic problem
i don't know
i think of two or three things in my mind
i think teachers should be tested
and they probably would shoot me if they heard that
and i know a lot of teachers um two
i think that they should leave the funding or the money where the proven programs are
and three
i do think that parents need to be more involved
i don't know
i just
it's probably easy to say because none of us have children
but um i just
yeah
association
yeah
yeah
mine too
i mean and do they have those anymore
i mean i don't even i don't have any uh but you know just the other day we were somewhere actually on saturday we were in the park cities ordering in a we were in a specialty uh food shop ordering something to send out of state and the man
we were all upon the topic of adoption which may be in our future um if we're real lucky at any rate he was saying how he was glad that his two children one biological one natural um this had to do with the the adopted one which biological i mean one adopted one natural um that's irrelevant
but he was saying that uh my husband said
and what does your son is very good looking
what is he
well he's nineteen he graduated last year
um but he's interested in theater
and he's just going to richland and he said you know he said i'm not calling him stupid or slow he just he said he did really didn't want to study
and he goes
and you know he leaned over to my husband and he said well you know
so
and so he said when you have them if you get one
what you'll understand is you'll just be glad if they don't you don't get a call from the police and he said our son mark you know blah blah blah um he may be have only been a c student
but we've never had trouble with him
he said
and when you raise a child in today's society he you're just glad they make it through school
is it
see i don't even know that
okay
what do you think about the school systems
uh_huh
right
okay
what do you see as being a problem with the school system
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well i don't have children in school
and it's been so long since i was in school myself
i'm not really sure how to answer that when uh i don't know
it seems that they're you know that that the difference is between each school
i think if it was if it could possibly be standardized a little bit that it would be much easier to to gauge you know how uh a particular group of students was doing
uh the curriculums differ so much
and i'm not saying that that's bad necessarily
but i think it makes very hard to tell where an actual problem is you know you can't really tell from a group of students if it's a
if if it's the the teacher that's got the problem or if it's the book
that's got the problem you know what the materials that they're using and everything
that could be causing a problem
uh_huh
what kind of school is that
oh okay
yeah
i think that's kind of a good idea because you know it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't divide people by by anything besides what they're interests are
and it's a it's a learning environment
if you're if you're interested in sciences and you're [grouped] with other people that are interested in sciences
it seems like it would it would uh it would help
yeah
uh_huh
okay
what do you think about about sports in high school and about uh the competitiveness i've i've know i've seen in plano that there's a lot of really vicious competitiveness between the children at the different high schools
and do you think that's healthy
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
now i didn't even realize that at all
um
right
huh
well i know they've got a lot of elementary schools
well now what is [shepton] going to be
okay
okay
okay
uh i guess uh you know i really i remember what school was like when i grew up
and uh you know back then i believe i really do believe people had more respect for teachers back then
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i agree
and i don't know
you know i think some of that stems with the parents
but i i think some of it also stems with just society in general
because teachers aren't looked looked upon as you know like with as much respect as they use the to be
because back then you know if you were a teacher
people used to think oh you know that you know that's great
and nowadays if you're a teacher
it's like oh you had nothing else that you could come up with to do so you decided to go into teaching
you know it's like
yeah
that too
that's true
that's true
yeah
that's true
yeah
my wife's a teacher
but she teaches preschool
uh_huh
uh_huh
that's right
that's right
and it seems to me like now it's just the opposite in in in a lot of cases
you know
uh
right
uh_huh
yeah
i
yeah
yeah
and i also don't believe that you know uh you know physical punishment is is really the answer either
uh
uh because you know a lot of kids and you know they get that at home you know they don't need it at school either
they need some other way of of discipline
that's you know it's going to uh more or less you know snap the child around and and get them you know just just earn some respect
i mean anybody can beat up
on anybody else
yeah
yeah
i guess it really would
it doesn't matter what age the child is you know anywhere from preschool to you know teenagers you know you take away what they what they want
and enjoy then they're going to pay attention to you
that's true
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
yeah
yeah
ooh
you're brave
uh_huh
you know i i think maybe it might not be too bad of an idea
i don't know if you've seen the movie where the the principal cracks down on the kids and he says okay
let me know who all the trouble makers are
and they're out of here and i'm wondering how practical that is to apply to you know to all the schools
i mean i wonder if that would work or not or what kind of alternative they could provide for these you know troubled kids and trouble makers that type of thing
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's right
yeah
that's true
right
right
yeah
it it's getting to the point where you know where
well you know it's kind of with both parents having to work
it's really hard to uh to have the strength yeah
yeah
and then when mom and dad do give notice at home then you know they're too tired from working all day long
they just as soon let them do whatever they want
and don't bother me i'm tired
and that doesn't help either
that's true
yeah
that's true
especially i think at the younger ages uh elementary you know i think maybe you know i hate to even say you know one teacher teaching a certain grade is is higher priority than another teacher
but there's so much of of what they experience in their early years
sets the pattern
uh_huh
yeah
uh i'm also an education major i'm still in school
and uh but i want to go into teaching special ed
and uh i think there is a lot of problems in that area
and i think there is problems all over with the education system
whether it be uh elementary you know or even colleges you know have their flaws but especially in the learning disabilities
because uh a lot of times you know teachers think oh this kid is dumb
and you know they just not too many people have knowledge you know about this area of uh type of kids you know because there are going to become new
and and they are starting to find out more research about uh this type of learning
and so
uh_huh
that's right
that's right
they're they hire teachers who aren't even qualified to teach those kind of kids and they burn out so fast they don't want to teach them
and there is not enough teachers who want to do that
and they are starting to find out you know
oh this kid might have a learning disability they test them and find out that they do
and then it's just a growing field
because more and more kids are being tested into that
uh_huh
right
right
and like everybody not just people with problems uh learn differently
i mean you know one teacher can go out and learn how to teach
but they only know one way
and a kid might have problems you know learn that [comprehending] well
what does that mean i think it's i think more teachers should uh find different ways be creative on their teaching
so
right
uh_huh
yeah
exactly
the grading system uh well uh i think uh well in a sense it's probably too easy
but if it wasn't
uh these kids you know i mean nowadays a lot of kids they just you know don't try
they don't get the grades that they could
and uh i don't i don't
yeah
i think well the field
i want to go into grades to me doesn't mean much
it doesn't tell you how intelligent you are
how bright you are
you know uh because i know somebody who is very bright and very intelligent but just doesn't get the grades
and that's just because they have a learning disability
uh so yeah
i think you have a good point there where they don't focus enough on uh how they learn
and what they are learning
you know not on the grade
right
uh_huh
yeah
right
and that's hard with a a large class you know with thirty kids you can't give them all your full attention
but
and i i wish there was a way
i'm not sure that
okay
what do you think
right
uh_huh
yeah
well the class sizes are too large
and uh they don't pay the teachers enough like in dallas they have too many administrators they are top heavy
and uh they uh yesterday on the news they had some problems with the the texts having uh mistakes in them
and uh a lot of them weren't like the history books are not historically correct
but they covered up a lot of the bad things that have happened
well i think they need to do whatever they can like uh i think uh massachusetts put a priority on education and uh bringing in industries recruiting and they made a lot of difference in that state and in texas
i think we are like twenty ninth in spending you know
and they put through this robin hood bill
but it doesn't change the amount of spending overall it just [distributes] the money more evenly
and so they need to do that they need to increase spending they need to uh make it so that the teachers want to stay in teaching
because most of the time the teachers spend disciplining the the kids instead of instead of teaching the subject now
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and uh i think they changed the way the ladder is now that it takes uh longer time for you to qualify for a higher salary and uh it's it's uh more subjective than it was before
so uh i don't know
you know i don't know what incentive a teacher has to stay in teaching
i just have uh one daughter she is six now she is going to richardson public school
uh_huh
right
right
but the worst school districts are dallas garland carrollton uh coppell really doesn't matter much it's it is not at the bottom and the best is uh highland park richardson and plano
she is six
yeah
uh you know she is learning to read some
and she can do a little bit of math now
oh uh [valleyview] mall
yeah
you know all the calls are supposed to be from a different phone
so that is where i am
and they have a lot of pay phones here
and i don't know uh i don't know
they cut on the uh since mark white passed that bill
about cut back on that extra circular activities that may have improved a little bit because uh i was talking to a lady the other day
and that is the first thing she said her both her children were in band
and they quit and she said the band teacher acted like band was the only subject that he was taking and he was suppose to spend all of his time on band
right
and he he was taking honors classes in all his other subjects he goes to the lewisville school district
and uh you know it is just ridiculous
so he just quit simple as that
everything should be equal you know
and there is no reason you already spend all of that time in band
there is no reason that he should practice more than an hour a day outside of band if he if he even has the energy especially in marching band
uh i don't
now my children are all grown
but they did go through the texas school system
yeah
i guess it is a little bit do you
uh yes
but it was in a smaller town and uh it was in a town where i knew uh an awful lot of the people and kept track of them
and i think that made a difference
no
uh they grew up in uh a town in north texas in sherman
do you have children here
well i think plano has a fairly good system because uh uh well just looking by the uh some of the scores coming out
uh my children
well we did not uh they did not go to school until uh uh junior high
but they were in sherman texas
and one of my cousins was the principal
but some of the problems
i see now is i think uh some uh as i said my children have been out for quite a while
but a lot of my friends have children
and i can see a difference from between when my sons went through and what their children are doing and it seems to me that uh they they're spending less and less uh uh well my children had to have a lot more respect for their teachers than i think the the the students now days do
and i think there's the uh
that respect hasn't uh carried over
and uh uh they they're not being taught respect uh unless and i don't know what you can do about it
other than you know
that is one of the the one of the examples i see
no
i think also too
you're you're right in the fact i think parents there is a lack of participation among parents
it's uh too often the school is used as a dumping ground
yeah
uh but you're right
i hadn't thought about that
but uh well also you're they don't go to the open houses to the the parent teacher you know
there is just a very small minority of uh parents that do that that is
i think uh one of the things that i see
of course this is uh uh again an [outsider] view is too often that the school system is set up now uh based on the way it was for the last two hundred years on uh a [gregorian] society
uh culture
and the life styles
now like you said there are too many two parent working parents and uh a lot of them work uh there is not your nine to five shifts there a lot of shifts and it's a shame
they cannot set up school systems that uh are not based on a monday through friday uh kind of you know a job or uh i wouldn't mind seeing evening you know uh utilizing the schools uh opening up an evening uh you know a morning school and an evening school that way the the buildings would
but now i am looking at other areas where they're having problems with over crowding and uh of course you you'd have to have more teachers for that also
but you could utilize the buildings just as well
and it would be based on the life styles of their families
so that's uh you know that's just a possibility
and again i think also a lot of times they they
there needs to be more emphasis on some of your basic education
uh reading skills especially
[brigette] this is maureen
yeah
if there is something wrong with the school system
sure
right
oh
are you there
okay
well you know i was listening to uh sixty minutes i think the other night they had andy [rooney] on there
and one of the comments he was making is that uh you know part of the problem is uh parents and uh their lack i guess of uh interest in the kids in school and stuff basically until we change that uh we are not going to have the kids uh get any smarter because uh you know they're not encouraging their kids to do
well in school
so
otherwise we are not going to ever achieve a good education system unless we really get the parents involved
uh_huh
yeah
right
um
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
that's kind of a shame that uh we don't put emphasis and money where we really should
and we have never really paid teachers real well
we have never paid uh other public servants like the police and such very well
it is kind of a shame
uh there are some times that i think that uh you know the quality of teachers may be improved upon
i think what they did a few years ago was kind of a joke about testing the teachers and all
uh i think i think that there they made some changes you know into uh the kind of courses that should be involved in education curriculum
and uh trying to improve upon them uh somewhat
but uh they've never really paid you know real well
and and you know people have to pick an occupation that's going to support themselves it can't be all sacrifices and no
you know salary
you have got to live on something
but
uh_huh
um
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
and you know some people are much better test [takers] than others
uh some people you know uh just really clam up when it comes to a test
and they are so nervous about well is there is this a trick question
and instead of being real straight forward and just trying to answer it
they uh get themselves you know worse grades because they were so anxious about it
and then other people you know aren't that upset about it
and they test very well
so there has to be different ways of of testing sometimes you know because uh that isn't always a real good reflection of if the persons learned it or not
yeah
you know uh i i wouldn't want to be back in school
now i think it uh it's a real challenge
and you know uh i think maybe the kids need more uh i don't know counseling or
well they they don't seem to discipline the children like they used to
now when i was in school
i'm i'm only twenty nine
and i i hadn't been out of college that long
but when we were in grade school
we you know if you got in trouble you definitely got [paddled] or you know something something was done and now they can't touch the children
well it's really a combination the fact that so many parents refuse to let the school discipline their children
and the fact that they let parents or or people file lawsuits for one thing i have a friend that is a teacher in houston
and she says the kids can hit you kick you stab you
and you cannot touch them
and if you touch them then they can sue you
and they can sue the school system
i i think so
i think so
and i
you couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher in a bad in a bad city
and and and our town
we're you know maybe thirty thousand people
there's not a problem
oh really
yes
it's unbelievable the things
and of course the sweet little kids
uh_huh
uh_huh
well yeah
and the fact that they're not putting enough money into the schools
you know
and they don't even have adequate facilities is
well isn't that the truth
uh_huh
uh_huh
and and let the schools give them a little more you're right
give them a little more support and a little more to work with
and as these you know as the kids get older
it's it's even harder
yeah
because then you know their minds are made up as to what they're going to do by then
oh yeah
yeah
they see
no point you know we've gotten away with it
this far
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
and it just frightens me when i think about having a child and sending them to school where they're they're selling drugs
in in grade school
i can't imagine
i mean we wouldn't even have known what they were talking about
let alone take something or you know sell it buy it
i i just can't imagine it has has come so far that there's little kids dealing drugs and older kids dealing to the little kids
and
yes
oh my goodness
um
and when we were little
when we went to grade school
we lived in waxahachie and little bitty town you know little bitty school and there was
i i i just
it is beyond my comprehension to imagine grade [schoolers] with weapons and and and gangs
and it's just you might as well just have a police file on them
you know because you know you you learn who the leaders are
and you know what they're doing and it's you can't do anything to them
uh no
i don't i'm a college student actually
no kids yet
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
pretty expensive
right
uh i think that there's a lot that could be done to improve them
i uh being
i am in college and stuff you get to college and you see you know it just seems it seems like that
we ought to be doing a lot of the things that that are done in college i guess should be taught a lot earlier in school
like in math and science and stuff like that
i mean i uh am a math major
and when i was in high school you know i i think i could have handled a lot of the work that i've been doing here in college at a much younger age i believe that that's the way that it use to be in this country a long time ago
and that it probably is in a lot of other countries too because your your math professors or what
whatever will always go
yeah
i was doing this stuff back in high school and you're like well you know then why the heck is it you know my third year in college
and i am just now getting to it it just seems like that they the curriculum in the public schools is just too soft or something
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
right
work at his own pace
right
uh_huh
right
right
well i agree very highly with your point about the the uh public schools have gotten away from the real sort of hard core curriculum and into areas that are more should be dealt with at home or in the church or somewhere else
well uh i think that uh the majority of the problem with the school system uh is similar to the majority in a lot of other areas in it's a question of economics and school system is not designed to be successful uh by that uh it's not really profitable for good teachers to be in the school systems uh if there are good school teachers good really qualified people as school teachers it's because they're dedicated not because they're rewarded for doing so uh the the public school system uh needs to be viewed i think kind of like the highways and hospitals and everything else
it's part of the infrastructure it's something that has to be and has to be you know highly maintained in order for the nation itself to be successful
and when you uh when you neglect part of the infrastructure be it
the roads or the schools or whatever then everything kind of follows with that
it's just a question of how long before you pay the price
huh
huh
yeah
i'd heard something as a matter of fact uh kind of along those lines with i think it was the new york school system where they suddenly instituted a sort of market system where uh basically the kids were allowed to take whatever classes they wanted to and go to whatever school they wanted to
and it was up to the schools to attract the kids uh
and offer stuff the kids wanted
and what turned out happening
this was like area of the country with the highest drop out rate and all of this kind of stuff
and what ended up happening is people didn't just take fun classes or anything like that uh it ended up that uh the rate of of graduating students went way way up and they ended up taking real courses
but it was because they wanted to
and cause they chose to instead of were being forced to
and and the the people were forced to compete
and and the good teachers were getting the students and that kind of stuff
sanitation engineers
yeah
and i
uh_huh
yeah
i think there's something to that
yeah
yeah
i tend to agree uh well i remember now it's been quite a few years since my kids were in high school
i'm getting that old
but uh i remember uh being a little surprised at the uh the catalog of courses like instead of taking a survey course on american literature you had you chose from uh it almost looked like a college catalog and uh the courses were too specialized as you said
and you just read you know they they take a whole semester long course on uh on one writer or something uh that's fine for college
but it seems kind of silly for high school
you'd be about the same age as my sons yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i taught college for awhile
not recently
but uh yeah
i remember i i was quite surprised at uh i mean you start [rejecting] things on that basis you end up [handing] uh everybody's papers back
that's probably what we should have done
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i guess the class sizes are bigger now i guess they must be
uh_huh
no
right
they need smaller discussion
yeah
uh_huh
well i've been reading about some successful school systems
and it does seem that parental involvement is the is the common uh factor
and everybody's doing anything that works these days
so that's probably uh one of the big keys
okay um
the one of the things that i've heard uh many people complain about the school systems was that
they didn't feel like uh people were dedicated to teaching their children
or their heart really wasn't in it
you know
so what they went and got a degree
and and everything
but it wasn't their not doing it just because they want to the teachers
the teachers you know
how do you feel about that
yeah
you shouldn't be doing
yeah
oh really
right
yeah
what do you think about the the recent bill that was just passed you know where they're taking the money from especially the dallas area oh oh yeah
i'm in dallas texas
okay
yeah
they're taking uh the money from our schools here and distribute it uh some of the other [outlying] and and especially like west texas
what what do you think about that because it's it's you know the money's coming from us here that live here and work here and
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
excuse me
yeah
i agree you know
yeah
yeah
it is
plano
yeah
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
they call you all the time
uh_huh
yeah
i agree
right
well i i i believe that the school puts a big demand on the on the teachers and the students for for the fact that they expect the parents to go out and a lot of times chauffeur or lot of times you know buy a lot of things that might seem unnecessary
but it's unreal on the cost of sending a kid to school
because of you know you spend your time
voluntary
and plus you buy a lot of extra arts crafts aids things like that
[notebooks] for reports
right
projects
oh my goodness
so you really do
yeah
like uh all types of projects little bug things you know that
uh_huh
oh my gosh
yeah
right
that's amazing
because if every child does that
what are they going to do with all that
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
how do you feel about the plano school system you feel like it's pretty good compared to the others around you know richardson and allen
and
right
oh really
yeah
money
an
real demanding basketball
right
yeah
that's amazing
that's uh
that's a big difference
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
that's wild
well it's been good talking to you
thank you
i guess we're ready
well i
uh
well it's been a long time since i've been in uh involved with public school systems uh
my youngest girl has graduated and she graduated in eighty nine so
uh_huh
well i don't know if uh you mean they keep the children
they want the teachers to keep the children longer
hello
uh what do you mean by that statement do you mean they want the uh the teachers to keep the children longer than they're supposed to
or are they
to train them in all [phases] of life
really
you mean just
well the discipline starts in the home
and carries over into the school when
they are school age and and and i think the school
i think
oh that's
well well it's just gotten uh completely out of hand as far as the violence in the schools
and i don't know what the solution to that is at all
i mean it's just uh to me it's [utter] chaos
i don't know how some of those teachers function because uh they are being violated by the students and i know that there are some schools that are patrolled by um private police and even public police and and and they're not getting any satisfaction from that effort
i think uh i don't know what the solution is if the government doesn't know how are the um there's somebody that needs to rise up and have a plan that is going to resolve the many issues that are facing the public school system
and i wouldn't know where to start since i haven't been involved in the public school system that much
when my children were in school they were in a in a private school system
so i mean we just i mean they just knew that they had to toe the line
otherwise they would uh suffer the consequences and and that was enough for them
i mean they just were very responsible kids
and i didn't have any problems with them
and i believe that uh that starts in the home
and then if the children are influenced i guess they're influenced by their peers
and uh monkey see monkey do a lot of times
and it kind of
well i guess that's the bottom line if the children do know right from wrong
oh really
that's great
so much more complex
yeah
great
yeah
i've been hearing about that
goodness
um hum
oh
oh goodness
that can be a disadvantage to the kids
oh no
get it
that's a good idea
well great
um hum
that's right
yeah
um i remember i mean during my i went to a private school during the junior high years
which was uh you know really during the development time of my life
and it was a small school we had like maybe twenty people in junior high
i mean in my class like in seventh grade
we had twenty in them and whenever we moved up to the eighth grade we had like twenty or twenty five in the whole eighth grade
and we had two different classes
so the ratio was real good
um as far as the we had real good teachers
and i learned a lot
i feel like that
if i had of gone to a private school during junior high
i probably wouldn't have developed such good study skills because um i thought the private school was difficult
i mean it gave a lot of homework and everything
and it really helped me develop my skills my uh my [memorization] i can memorize things real well now and things like that
but
and then whenever i got to high school it was kind of a disadvantage to me to the fact that i was going from a class of twenty to a class of five hundred
and uh and i do feel like that
i was socially [withdrawn] to a certain extent
because i didn't know anyone
and i was a freshman in high school you know
and i was the [peon] but uh it probably took i don't know maybe the first semester to get to get to where i was really comfortable with school because um i hadn't been in the public school system for so long
and it is just it's really different
it uh the children
there are a lot a lot wilder than what i was used to
i grew up in a very protective home
and then whenever i got to high school things were just so much different
especially nowadays
i mean even the high school that i went to just recently they put up these little metal detectors at each door when you walk in to make sure you don't have a gun
and things like that
and i mean it's it's gotten worse i graduated about two years ago
and even in the past two years it's gotten i mean it's just increased the the crime and the the drugs and the violence and everything have just increased enormously
so um
um hum
golly
um hum
oh goodness
oh no
okay
well i have one child that is in public school now i have three children that went to a private school
and then we put them into public school system
and i think we did them a big [disservice] by putting them in public schools
um i think that they my child now is in public school
and we're getting ready to put here into a private school because of it
i just don't feel like they're getting enough out of it you know for yes
yes
i just don't think that academically they're
and the school systems here is supposed to be really good
they have
i don't know if you're familiar
but texas has uh oil money that finances their school system
and there there's no state taxes paid here
so the money from the taxes from the oil go to pay go towards the schools and the running of the schools
so they're supposed to have a really good program
but uh i don't know
i just feel like my daughters are in college now
and the last three years of their life
they went to public school
and they made straight a and they're really struggling in college now
and uh i think that has a lot to do with it
i i don't know where where you can fix it you know what you need
yes
well you do that here too
you pay higher uh property taxes for the area that you're living in depending on the school and the area you're in
no
it it supplements the schools
that therefore there's no state income tax
that goes towards uh the school systems because of that you know because of that
but the property taxes that you have on your home depending on what area you are you know like they're higher in
certain areas than they are in other areas
you know
but uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
exactly
yeah
exactly
well there's no disciplinary actions that you know
can be uh taken against them at all
yeah
being friendly being friends with the kids
uh_huh
right
i think that that's right
i think i think a lot of that right there
and and i think that that's where you come into the private schools the private schools have more power you know i mean because in public schools these people really don't have any authority to do anything or to really punish these kids in any way
i mean they can't even hardly give them [detention] you know without having to call
their parents and have their parents come in and all this kind of stuff
i mean it really is
a major thing
no
really
exactly
yeah
to stay home is like oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
they send uh it because they send the report cards
and failing [notices] and stuff home in the mail
progress reports
well see up in oklahoma
now they do that
but here they don't do that
they give these progress reports to these kids my son is a senior
and he failed a class this last six weeks
and i'm like kevin how could you
but he didn't even tell me you know
and so i called the school
and like i didn't even know that he was failing this class and like but we sent the progress report home with him
well do you think he's going to give it to me
i mean you think he's he may be failing a class but he's not an idiot you know
right
right
i know i
well they have to have parental support
you say you taught school for a while
oh what grades did you teach
okay uh
and what general subjects
okay
okay
uh not yet
uh my first son is uh about two months old now
you know
but i'm presently going to college
um do you see anything in particular do you see you feel is wrong about the school system the way it's running now
yeah
yeah
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
huh
not even a g e d was required a g e d wasn't even required or was that available yet
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
huh
so teach a concept
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
oh yeah
yes
well tom what do you think about our public school systems today
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
i don't
so i am a little bit out of it
i can look back to when i was in school which is getting further and further away
and also i have a niece and nephew that are in school out in california
and i hear a little a bit about from my sister about things going on
yeah
yeah
they are moving to that out there
yeah
uh_huh
i hear that they that in at least in the system that is going out uh in california where that i am familiar with that
they do put families on the same schedule
so seems like that could get a little difficult to do that
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i hadn't thought about those things
but those are problems uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
there is no need for it anymore
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i did
right
i know of a lot of people that are home schooling their children you know just teaching them at home
and and for lots of different reasons you know
yeah
yeah
i know that a lot of them uh they hook up with like a home schooling system
and they get together the kids get together for lots of activities
outings and stuff like that
yeah
i think that helps yeah
i wonder too
i have mixed feelings about it
but uh i know that uh you know i thought when i thought of problems in the school system
it is not really the fault of the school system
but there is a lot of uh you know it's just uh i know kids are exposed to a lot that uh you can't shelter them eventually
but uh it's hard at a young age some of the pressures
and
yeah
yeah
okay
well that's a pretty loaded topic
well here in uh hang on just a second the dog is barking here in oklahoma we just went through a uh major educational reform we're uh that was a hot topic uh part of the problem had been there wasn't enough spent on education the classes were too large and we recently well we're we're through a proposition now where they're limiting class size to about twenty two
i think
and they've increased salaries and just done a major [revision] yes
yes
just about all
oh well actually actually it isn't just i said yes
and it really isn't
we also well no
we have a uh an [excise] tax on cars our car [tags] are very expensive
average taxes are very low on real estate probably in the five to six hundred dollar a year range
right
yeah
right
yeah
i i do have to tend to agree with you
the only other problem with that is that it's difficult to attract people into the teaching profession
huh
yeah
yeah
i think that's that's the other thing here the benefits are very good
for teachers where
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that does
i i think though you hit the the nail on the head when you when you said it's the attitude more than anything
of the teacher profession
the teaching profession
uh and that that's something you really can't change even with money
uh_huh
yeah
right
right
it's a it's a pretty big responsibility
i mean to to teach
uh_huh
uh being a former drug user   i uh i i guess i have to say at this point that i do approve of it  
uh because i know that uh in using drugs i was not a good employee  
and so i can see from the company's standpoint that there uh  
whenever you are an employee of the company you are using it's assets  
and uh you are also under their liability under the workmen's comp  
uh on my job we had a lot of workmen's comp cases  
and   i work for a tire company   modern tire  
and uh it's also a [retreading] plant  
and that's where most of our uh injuries occur  
and what we do is we'll have a drug test if an if a a break or a man uh has an accident  
then he's automatically uh given a drug test  
yes  
when he goes to the doctor the first time  
and so that kind of uh  
i don't know if it's been a deterrent or not because we have uh just started using it   oh for the past year or so  
now we've let some people go uh that we was found that drugs were used in their system  
now i don't know how t e c would handle it  
they haven't pursued it you know  
uh if there's some uh problem i know  
there was one guy that we tested for [preemployment] for drugs who absolutely swore up and down that it showed that he was using amphetamines  
and he went to a a separate drug   testing firm  
and they showed it negative  
so i think the tests themselves are not really that   cut and dried you know  
uh_huh  
really  
and then i also had a friend who was just around some people that were smoking cocaine  
and he tested positive on cocaine  
now then you always wonder well is he just saying that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because you're endangering everybody's lives if you   if it's something like that  
uh_huh  
you're kidding  
the executives right  
the executives  
yeah  
wouldn't that be awful if you were   if you were using and and   oh lose your job and everything  
i can't believe i was so [brazen] before  
i like i say i'm a former drug user  
but uh i i well i i accepted christ as my lord and [savior]  
and so i don't use drugs any more  
uh marijuana cocaine and amphetamines  
um yes  
uh_huh  
and all on the job too  
you know it had gotten that bad  
really  
it's it's  
life is so much more enjoyable  
uh_huh  
and i was losing jobs just from doing a poor job you know  
i mean you know there's all kinds of drawbacks much less the drug testing  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh goodness  
yeah  
yeah  
oh my gosh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
i would think there would be  
but they weren't  
isn't that awful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
that reminds me of uh  
i have a friend who was telling me about her brother who gets high all the time  
and i have just casually asked her what he did for a living  
and she said oh he's the supervisor of this chemical land fill you know   where they go and dump all this toxic stuff  
and i just you know went oh where  
let me move as far away as possible  
yeah  
but i'm proud though that that um you know i grew up in the sixties  
and back then it was popular   you know  
but people have really [wizened] you know become wise about drugs  
and they really have a good campaign for the young people you know  
they know it's not smart  
so   so i guess it was just a generational thing  
that's right  
and that's good  
that's the best way to stop it  
yeah  
well i think we did it  
so it's good talking to you  
yeah  
bye bye  
whoa  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
where do you work  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
do they do it like you know within hours of the accident  
or is it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's probably true too  
that's that's that's sort of scary  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
really  
yeah  
that's that's a bad situation  
i think that probably i think most companies now as far as entry   you know exams require that  
i think they should  
i'm a t i employee  
and   and and uh i'm i'm really gung ho for it  
in fact i you know  
some of the places now um like i b m don't allow them smoking you know   in in the plant  
we we have designated smoking areas  
but um i work in sort of a building that's that's not really well  
it's on the campus of the t i facility  
but it's a little bit you know separated  
we lease the building  
and it's it's a factory environment  
and uh they they have designated smoking  
but it's just wide open  
it's not [ventilated] properly  
and i think that's bad  
but as far as the drugs you know being in the factory kind of environment that way   i think it's a it's a definite i think it's essential  
yeah  
in fact we've had the policy on just the random testing now   for a couple years  
and uh i i was giving my boss a hard time because i kept waiting for my name to came come up you know  
they never they never called me  
they never you know  
and finally the day we declared war was my time  
no  
and so and and my boss has has gone for about like three times i think  
and i told him he's obviously in a high risk group  
right  
right  
and of course you know they did specifically single them out when we started   you know that they were going to do all them first  
uh_huh  
which i thought was interesting  
oh man  
yeah  
ooh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh what kind of drugs did you use if you don't mind  
wow  
really  
well it's really lucky that you got away from that  
cause that's really   [downward] [spiral]  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's it  
yeah  
just life in general  
yeah  
well well i'm definitely for it  
plus you know you you want to think that that you're working with people who are not only putting out their fair share   but that are not endangering your life  
in some cases  
like uh my husband uh several years back worked for [motorola]  
and they had you know  
i mean it was a chemical handling type  
yeah  
i mean and they have they have some serious chemicals out there   you know  
like they have emergency shower where you just run in there and strip off and dump water you know that kind of thing  
and they had people out there using all sorts of drugs handling those chemicals  
and that's really that's really frightening  
so i think some place you know places like that it should be like mandatory   like you know on on a on a greater frequency than maybe   just you know paper pushers like like i am  
well well you'd think so  
but uh  
i don't know if they do it till yet  
because when he was at  
course now it's been years now because it was before it was even before they had the the designated smoking   type stuff you know at t i  
i forgot what  
i guess it was like eighty four eighty five   something like that  
and they at that time they had no testing whatsoever  
so that's scary  
oh lord  
oh  
yeah  
should we move  
ooh  
that's awful  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
peer group is the other way now instead of  
uh_huh  
that's  
yeah  
that it really is  
okay  
well i enjoyed talking to you cathy  
well i i don't think that it's it's wrong for a company to require drug testing for certain types of positions  
for instance jobs that require use of heavy machinery and things like that where there's where there's uh [endangerment] to their own life and other people's lives  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well how do you how do you feel about uh companies drug testing prior to hiring  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what about random testing though  
do you feel like that's an invasion of certain people's rights if not everyone is tested  
i don't know that you do  
if it's random then it's random  
and that's not necessarily fair  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i i know that for instance in the n c double a they drug test  
and it's not random  
uh well i think all college players have to do an initial drug test at a certain point prior to the season  
and from that point on uh at the n c double a does have something to do with it  
but it's almost discretionary on the coach's part of each individual institution to identify the ones that have the problem  
and and the ones that test positive have to retest after a certain period of time  
well not being a   drug user i don't have a problem with that personally  
but i think that might be a violation of someone's rights  
if someone's having personal problems for some reason that's causing them to behave differently  
and their manager assumes they have a drug problem  
i mean if someone assumed that of me i would be upset  
it's an [accusation]  
and and it's   and it's based on on a perception that someone has as how a drug user would behave when some drug users behave uh normal uh you know  
right  
exactly  
i i don't  
the i think almost the only way that drug testing can be done fairly is if it's across the board from from the [janitors] to the executive management  
what type of job do you have  
uh_huh  
well does your does your job require you to drive company equipment or to operate any type of machinery that might   [endanger] someone  
well that doesn't  
i mean i  
uh_huh  
that is odd  
i was drug tested uh not for the job i have now but for the prior job uh  
but i know that they sent that the job i had before that well  
the job i have have now requested my uh uh my uh medical record from my old company  
so i don't know if i wasn't drug tested based on that or because the man who hired me didn't request the drug test because i know that my company does drug testing on occasion  
well no  
i don't think they can they can force another company to not drug test me just by saying that i i   didn't i mean  
they don't know that i don't use drugs  
they just tested me once  
but i used to work for a power company  
so it was very important that they make sure their employees especially [linemen]   uh were clean  
and since i was just you know one of the office folk i guess it wasn't as important to them that they test me regularly  
but i know they test most of the service people fairly regularly   uh just across the board  
no  
they're  
all of them are tested   once every three  
it's a rotation  
but it  
but again it depends on what job you're in  
the men that are out there fixing power lines are tested a lot  
and the men that drive the trucks   with with the guys that fix the power lines aren't tested as much  
but but see they make that clear to them as they hire those guys   what what the drug testing schedule is  
they say we we're testing you tomorrow  
and we'll test you every three months thereafter while you work here  
yeah  
it's it's made very clear upon hiring  
well have we spent our at least five minutes  
okay  
okay  
nice talking to you  
bye bye  
uh i agree with that  
people that are uh driving   like uh truck driver's and things like that  
i definitely think they should be tested  
and i'm not i'm not opposed to any testing  
i mean because i know i certainly wouldn't want to to uh you know be endangered by somebody in a company that accidentally dropped something on me or or you know because he was on drugs while he was there  
uh  
oh uh i was tested uh within my company  
i think it's kind of a push to uh weed out drugs in states  
and because i don't know of any other countries that are doing this  
and i i feel like it's really just within the united states  
it's uh it's okay  
i think your record should stand for itself that you know if you've been tested at other companies and you've always come up negative or whatever then i don't see what the big deal is that they have to go to all the expense   of testing you over and over and over  
and once you've established the fact that you're not a drug user and especially if your personality [proves] that you're not i think they could uh save money by not doing that you know every time  
say if you change jobs you wouldn't have to do it if you'd just been tested at your other work place  
oh  
uh not if it's done fairly  
and that's probably my question is how how do you know it's done fairly  
yeah  
well they might tell you it's random  
but then you know it's kind of like a a lottery  
somebody in their lifetime may win millions of dollars where another person doesn't win anything and tries and tries and tries   you know  
oh i see  
how'd how did they how do they pick their people  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
so do you  
right  
well do you think that should be implemented in the work place you know as like a manager or supervisor thinks or has suspicion that someone is using drugs  
do you think they should have the right to send them   to be tested  
right  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
it it would almost be like a a uh  
uh_huh  
and then how would you feel afterwards when you came up negative and you know your supervisor has accused you of using drugs  
right  
i agree with that  
because i know personally myself i've been in the same job for three years  
it will be three years in august  
and i've already been drug tested three times  
well i'm an environmental engineer  
and i've been drug tested three times  
and i know many people that have never been tested in their lifetime  
and the company i work for is sixty thousand people plus  
so see i for some reason i've come up three times  
that's pretty high statistics  
no  
no  
not at all  
it's a legal job you know  
so see it's really strange  
oh uh_huh  
right  
well does your the company say for instance does the company you worked for before have the right or do they have the ability to say hey we've already drug tested her  
and she came up negative  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and are they tested random  
they're  
oh okay  
i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
okay  
so they know that  
and that's  
uh_huh  
okay  
well  
yeah  
i think so  
yeah  
seven twenty five  
okay  
nice speaking to you  
bye  
okay  
so uh what do you think about it  
privacy  
right  
well there is always the uh the possibility even remote as it is of uh of mistaken uh of  
yeah  
and see that bothers me  
i'm i'm a i mean i'm i'm very much for drug testing  
uh i really am  
i mean i'm going i'm going to take the negative side just for a second   just to do it  
um see i have to take uh medication for a uh for for [kidney] transplant  
and i'm going to be taking that the rest of my life  
now you  
i don't know how that's going to affect uh  
right  
i mean i haven't had one yet  
um t i  
i work for texas instruments  
and and uh we you know we do have the random drug testing  
but i've missed it so far  
but i mean it in the back of my mind it always bothers me  
and what happens if it you know if it if they catch it  
they think that i'm you know i'm on drugs  
and they send me and and have me uh you know go through this this   thing you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
well i you know i'm like i said i'm i'm very much pro testing um  
and and this is why  
uh number one is i i'm i'm kind of  
i know this sounds like a slogan for the government  
but i you know we are in a war against   drugs  
i mean   it's it's horrible  
i mean you don't know whether the person sitting next to you   anywhere is on drugs or not  
and it takes some drastic steps at this point  
and i think personally the drastic step has to be that um that you can't work if you continue taking drugs  
i mean it's as simple as that  
i mean make it so   well make it uh not necessarily difficult  
but make it so that it's not glamorous  
i mean it's glamorous taking drugs  
or at least it seems that way  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
well then  
let's let's answer the second half of the question  
what limits ought to be put on it do you think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
treatment before for dismissal type thing  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
personally i think that's what i was about to say   is that everyone needs to be tested  
it you know  
that it could happen  
uh_huh  
right  
well there's yeah there there's going to be some measure of incentive uh reward or whatever  
but the reward ultimately comes down to what you want  
so i i've got to agree with that  
so um  
um  
yeah  
i think so  
i think we i think we did pretty good  
well all right  
well uh i guess that's about it  
all right  
it was it was talk nice talking to you too  
all right  
bye bye  
well um i guess i i'm more concerned about public safety than i am about the um the concern for the private uh the idea of   preserving privacy for   the individual um  
because i can't really see why anyone um who has nothing to hide would object  
that's of course that is certainly true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
if you had to have a drug test  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
checked out or whatever  
but it seems to me that there are ways to accommodate that um  
i agree that that some innocent person might be victimized   by a false test  
but i would think that um that some guidelines could be set up to avoid that  
for example that one uh positive would not be uh accepted as an automatic um reason for whatever they might be going   to do if they found a positive uh dismissal or treatment or whatever but that that what it would do is it would trigger perhaps uh one or two more stages where further tests could be uh done  
because um there are there must be people like you or in other circumstances that could come up with with uh false positives for certain kind of drugs  
on the other hand um i think there's certainly some professions that ought to be tested   because of the of their responsibility for the public welfare and certainly people in uh industries well the transportation industry   for uh you know specifically  
but um in many many cases whether or not an individual has a problem with drugs it's not even going to effect anybody but his uh you know himself and his own family perhaps um depending on the kind of drug he might be on  
but um and eventually that's going to show up anyway in the way he works   and so on  
but there's so many things that it would make a difference  
i guess i i uh i would not want to have anyone in my family uh victimized by someone who you know a a bus driver or a train engineer or something like that who um you know hadn't been tested  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
make it difficult enough  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
according to what you   you hear  
the people who um have serious problems i mean  
we have um  
really i guess we're kind of lucky  
we really only know of one uh young man who uh who's a  
they go to our church  
and it's the son and so on  
and he was friends with my children um  
and he's really the only one that i know of personally who got himself really messed up um having been involved with drugs  
but i know of a number of other people who have you know gotten all messed up  
most of these are young people  
i work in the education system  
and so i have a little more contact with that  
but um the effect that it's had on this young man's life is so dramatic that it's heartbreaking  
and he may never really be a productive member of society  
but [sadder] than that he may never be able to have a normal happy life because it has strung him out so that he has [anxieties] now that are are almost uncontrollable  
i mean he he puts himself in the hospital fairly regularly thinking that you know he he's not sure if he's going try to commit suicide or not  
i mean he's you know he's so messed up  
and um this was a nice sweet young man who teenager you know  
and he's now a young man about twenty i guess who um just got really down the wrong path  
and uh you know i don't know that that his problem would ever have been [detected] by drug testing  
but seeing what drugs did to him makes me see makes me realize what it could do to people you know in the work force as well  
um it's horrible  
well the limits uh uh would i think have to do with what i'd [alluded] to before that there needs to be a further um that that one positive on a drug test   would not [constitute] uh dismissal or grounds for whatever the company or agency might uh have set up for those who genuinely have a problem  
in other words there needs to be um more than  

yes  
right  
there needs to be more than one test  
and there needs to be some some measure of uh [certainty] before anything drastic happens  
there are lots of things that are involved there um such as perhaps insurance   uh you know denial of insurance for someone um  
and undoubtedly there are people who would be victimized by this um that would that you know  
it would be unfair  
and people who are on medication for example or um even people who might be of the gay community  
and i'm not an advocate for that particular segment of society  
but um i think that there doesn't need to be fuel to the fire for discrimination    
because it makes a bigger problem um  
so it seems to me that that um there needs to be some ground you know some rules   that protect  
i'm not sure though when we talk about what rules if any that we should say well certain segments should not have to be tested  
i really don't see why  
and yeah  
yeah  
i don't   i don't know why it would be you know uh bad to test just  
and it may be you know  
it's not feasible to do everyone  
but certainly random testing the fact that people know that that they  
yeah  
would be some measure of protection  
but the bottom line is that that if if you're going to stay clean and straight then um you're you're going to do that because you want to  
really  
yeah  
that's very true  
well it sounds like we agree anyway  
yeah  
i guess if that's all we've done  
and i guess we've talked long enough  
it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
are are you a t i er  
oh really  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
in fact with me this is it's not much to talk about  
i'm so much for it  
i don't really have much to comment about it  
[there've] been some interesting subject that they've called about  
how many times have you called  
or have you been participating in this  
oh you got ten  
well   you you've passed me up  
this is about six times  
yeah  
no  
i think it's good  
in fact i don't know what the statistics were  
but i think that they were surprised to find it so low  
i think they were expecting to find uh like the national average at t i  
and i think it was tremendously down  
yeah  
as far as the number of people they actually found that were drug users  
but i think that when i was at t i of course we had all the information before they started  
and they said that a certain number of people that the heavy drug users would either quit or go in rehabilitation programs  
and i think that's what helps you know that in the warning that you have a drug program the people that are worried about it or are taking drugs actually go  
and then usually a lot of them [partake] in some of the benefits of rehabilitation and everything  
yeah  
and our numbers have been way down  
i don't know what they were  
yeah  
oh really  
oh you're  
that's a good point  
but at t i they before they had the testing i've forgotten seems like it's a year ago september something like that they told us that the agency that did it was the one that did it for the government  
and of course that's critical just as the point that you brought up that whoever does your [testing's] got to be you know have a lot of quality control that they keep track of everything  
they don't make mistakes  
that would be terribly embarrassing   for someone to really come back positive  
and they were not  
and i haven't heard of any  
now i'm not in personnel or anything  
but uh they say that there it's almost down to zero where people come back and say they are positive and they're not  
in other words there's very few mistakes  
and that of course has got to be critical  
it's got to be if you have a drug testing program  
it's got to be with a very very good agency  
you don't just have some local group do it  
it's got to be a highly qualified agency  
no  
you don't want to do that  
it's got to be a laboratory that does quality control and double check  
and i think that t i is [latched] themselves up with an established group  
and that would be good for any company that does it and not to have just a very casual thing  
it's got to be with a you know first class totally independent agency not local of course  
ours i think well i think it was in the south somewhere  
but it wasn't even in dallas you know the one that did us  
yeah  
oh no  
they're not fired  
they are they have one chance to then go in a program  
you come back positive you have one chance to go in and go into they have a lot of uh rehabilitation both for alcohol and for drug use  
and they have uh a lot of uh they have an agency where you can go for personal problems financial or whatever  
and so they they they don't  
no  
it's not firing first  
it's uh definitely trying to encourage people to rehabilitate  
in fact again before you go you know that's why i said when they first started it they had a rehabilitation program in effect that said if you worried about this and you may have taken drugs go ahead and get rehabilitated first  
and they won't say anything about it  
oh sure  
oh yeah  
no  
that's not right  
it's really an illness or whatever you want to say that it is  
you know it's a weakness and all  
and who all of us have weaknesses of one kind or another  
and i think that those people that have that and however they got into it  
i have children  
i always worry about the the classical thing that you see on t v where the drug pushers give it to the kids for free you know and get them [sucked] in  
and then they sell it to them  
you know   the classical thing is to give it away  
i always worry about my teenage daughters going to some party  
and they slip it to them  
i don't know  
i don't even have that much knowledge to know whether that would get them addicted or not you know  
that's a real worry  
oh you know a lot about that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
i'm glad of that  
and i have knock wood pretty good luck or very good luck with my daughters so far  
that's my conference call  
i have one daughter still at home  
one's at u t  
and one's at home gets dozen calls a night  
no  
no  
i don't care about that  
she'll be on the phone all night  
right  
do you have children  
oh great  
fantastic experience  
i've got two as i said i've at u t now in austin and one at home  
and i always say that i've learned so much more from them than i ever taught them  
it's a fantastic experience  
oh yeah  
yeah  
the key thing that i think that we try to do is that bring all the friends over here  
have our house as a place where they can come at any time so that you always see their friends   rather than make them not welcome  
and they're always over in someone else's house  
so our we've been lucky that our house is usually the place where the kids could come you know  
and then you can keep an eye you can make [judgments] and make comments or whatever you want  
but at least you see what's going on  
and you always have your house welcome then your children think that you know you're cool parents and all that  
well good luck with your expected baby there  
my wife was yelling was talking in my ear  
she said reminded me to say that they're very cheap until they get to start driving  
and we have one of course i say in college driving and one going to drive this summer  
so kids are cost you practically nothing because you always get so many things from your relatives and everything  
but you wait until they go and get a car insurance that's when they get expensive  
as they get older   you know they cost practically nothing from one to five  
and then slowly but surely starts to creep up when they start to take lessons  
but it's well worth it and everything  
be a be a great experience really  
you still there  
okay  
i thought i was cut off there  
you know i don't have much to say about drug testing  
so you've done this ten times  
did you get the booklet on how to get the gifts and all  
oh okay  
i didn't know what they were going to do  
they sent us a little booklet  
i just got it a week or so ago saying you know so many calls will be something a prize and everything  
well that great  
well what kind of cash  
i've forgotten what they going to do  
was it five dollars a call  
well hope they follow through and everything  
right  
yeah  
alright  
bye bye now  
no  
no  
i work there as a temporary  
but are you at t i  
so you have to do the random drug testing  
oh about ten or eleven calls  
right  
oh  
as contract person we have to do random drug testing too  
it doesn't bother me  
i don't feel like it's really a violation of privacy or anything  
as far as the number of drug users you mean  
huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
so that's real beneficial for the company and the employee  
when i worked for the temporary agency as a permanent person  
and so we had  
when we sent [temporaries] to t i we had to have their drug tested  
and we did have a couple of cases where we really the person said that they hadn't used anything  
and their test came back positive  
and normally we didn't retest them  
but there were a couple of people that we really thought that they were telling the truth  
and we [retested] them like the next day  
and they came back negative   the second time  
so that that's the only thing i think that might be a little bit of a problem  
right  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
not just some doctor's office somewhere  
oh really  
huh do they have a policy where they counsel people if they come back positive  
or do they fire them right away  
right  
right  
i think that's really good  
i know some places just fire people on the spot if they come back positive or something  
right  
yeah  
some of the stories you read about cocaine that's like people try it one time and they're addicted  
my husband is a counselor  
and he works mostly with adolescents  
so yeah  
i hear a lot of horror stories about things like that  
but most of the time it's they get into the wrong crowd first  
and then they start a drug problem  
it's usually not a one time accidental thing i don't think  
oh well i'll let you go if you want to go ahead and take that  
yeah  
it seems if you watch what kind of crowd that start running around with and kind of keep up with who their friends are   that's best way to avoid trouble from what i can gather  
no  
not yet  
we're expecting a baby   in july  
so we're starting  
yeah  
oh we're really excited about it  
you know one thing my husband believes is if you suspect your kids are having any kind of problems he believes you should take your kids in for a random testing like on a saturday morning if they've been out at a party friday night  
if you're not too sure what's going on he tells parents all the time haul them into the doctor's office and get them checked  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's a really good thing to encourage  
right  
oh well thanks  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh yeah  
i think it'll be neat  
[yea]  
no  
i can't think of anything else to say about that either  
yeah  
no  
i don't work for t i  
so i get cash  
right  
hm  
yeah  
five dollars a call  
well technically we're not supposed to talk about the phone calls while we're on them  
so i guess we better get off  
it was good talking to you  
bye  
okay  
well how do you feel about uh drug testing  
yeah  
yeah  
i am too a little bit  
i mean i i don't want to be around people who are really on drugs and that sort of thing  
and and you know obviously they're probably not going to be doing a good job and so forth  
but i don't really like having to do it  
it  
and i don't like the idea of it it's it's makes too much of a big brother type of thing  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think so too  
but you know it's one of those things  
yeah  
plus i guess if they are in problem enough to be [jailed] or something of that nature for any length of time then the company has lost what they've put into that employee   and their expertise or whatever  
yeah  
well do you think that um it should be like we have this sort of random spot testing type of thing  
or do you think it would be more [palatable] if we had some sort of regular schedule  
or would that just allow everybody a chance to get out of it  
well you know if if they have time enough they can   stay off of it  
yeah  
yeah  
i think so too uh  
i know the the group i was in at the time this all came up they uh were quite vocal about it through electronic mail  
boy they just really   you know let them have it from one end to the other   [vehemently]  
but uh it has quieted down  
but i don't think they probably feel any differently  
and some some of them did quit the company  
true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i wouldn't like anything of that nature you know  
don't tell me what to do you know  
yeah  
yeah  
well i guess too if i thought that this would help really and truly do away with the drug problem then that would be one thing   but i think it's too minor and too you know  
in in the whole scope of things this isn't going to to have any real affect on   what's going on in the street  
yeah  
well yes  
that  
yes  
i i think that could be a big problem you know  
i would just be irate if they said it was positive and i knew it wasn't  
you know that just really rubbed me the wrong way  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
no  
i guess the one that really got me too was that uh  
let's say your spouse is on a particular drug  
and you know what that is  
and then you end up with the same problem  
and you take their leftover medicine  
that's not allowed  
you know that's that's totally out  
uh_huh  
oh that's interesting  
well i guess we've exhausted that one  
enjoyed talking to you  
good bye  
um personally i don't have a problem with it uh  
i think uh as far as uh protecting fellow employees protecting their reputation of the company and the quality of work that the people do um it's justified  
on the other hand um i do agree that it's it's a it's an invasion of privacy as far as a person's involvement outside of work  
um i would never i would never have a problem with anyone testing me  
but i can understand why people would object  
so i guess uh i guess uh i'm kind of mixed on it   still at this point  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's absolutely right  
it it uh i guess it all comes down to uh you know a a definition of uh how much out outside activities affect your work  
and uh uh granted you know that  
any any kind of drug use on on company property and whatnot   is is definitely not acceptable  
uh uh i don't think anybody would ever argue that   or uh any any after affects carrying over into the [workday]  
but um you know i don't i'm not particularly concerned with what people do um after they leave for the day especially if i don't if i don't uh see any results of it the next day  
well it it is it you know  
on the other hand you you've got uh you've got the uh the possibility of people oh  
you've got some people could be arrested for uh drug use drug dealings and things like that  
and uh if their if their employers name hits the papers and that it's it's   it's a mark against them  
the company and uh you know what kind of people work there what uh  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
even if it is you know a company policy of uh immediate termination or whatever they still have to replace them  
and uh there's there's a lot involved there  
i think i think the regular schedule stuff um that when you say everybody get out of it that's a good point  
i never really thought of it that way  
yeah  
if they really can  
um i think the the biggest problem i've got is is forcing it on someone after they've already agreed to the terms of employment  
um as far as the new hires i i hired on just early enough that i i missed it um where the new hires were concerned  
but uh not nobody no  
i don't think anybody questions that um testing someone as a as a [precondition] to being hired  
but um for the conditions that for our employment to change while you're on the job that's i i don't know that that's where i think that most people get upset  
it's uh you know it it's changing the rules in the middle of the game basically  
and uh   it's just it it's a really tough question  
and it you know it  
people have have really quieted down after everything started  
but i still think there's a lot of there's a lot of resentment  
uh_huh  
you bet  
no  
that's right  
yeah  
i i know of some people who did uh  
it was it was indirectly related you know  
they could always come up with other reasons  
but it it had a lot to do with it just the the whole attitude  
because it's really uh it's just really  
it it seems so  
t i you know with the the whole relaxed atmosphere that we have   um to all of a sudden uh search for attitudes and whatnot  
you know there's not a lot of pressure to to vote the right way or anything else around t i  
like there like there is in some companies or at least you know  
from what i've heard  
but uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
no  
i  
absolutely not you know  
it's it's it's you know  
if you hired me i'll be you know  
supposedly your grade was a little majority of my views and my qualifications to begin with  
so uh you know let's let's stick with that original trust i guess  
but uh it's it's still it it still remains a tough question  
and it's there's a lot of you know the whole the whole department of defense uh reasoning behind the original plan and whatnot  
there's a lot of different things that uh come into play  
but that was  
i think everybody everybody pretty much knows that that was kind of a smoke screen to implement it throughout the whole company  
uh_huh  
i really don't think so  
yeah  
i really don't because some people are going to are are going to risk it um  
it may prevent  
i i guess i guess what i'm trying to get at is if it if it if it does help a few individuals maybe maybe it's worth it  
um you know it may prevent somebody who was was [teetering] on the edge of experimenting or whatnot  
but uh i don't know if you know the  
it's it's a needs of the few and the needs of the many type situation  
i don't know if everybody should have to sacrifice quite as much  
there there's still a big question in my mind  
that the the absolute [refusal] to accept the possibility of of mistakes on the testing   is something that still bothers me  
it it's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
and that  
i i don't know if uh i don't know if everybody understands all the implications on that too even if you you know if you take uh a a drug that was prescribed for you  
but the the prescription has run out you still had some left  
and you happen to take an extra [penicillin]  
well [penicillin's] not on the list  
but you know  
yeah  
i i think you understand what i'm getting at  
it it can still show up  
and it can still flag as a positive  
and   and those kinds of things obviously that's not the intent  
and uh those are the kinds of things that still can show up  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
i even had friends when i was going to college who were in uh pharmacy school  
and they could legally um provide medicine to their family family members and friends  
certain medicines were were legal now  
i i i believe you know any of the any of the ones we would we would be tested for wouldn't be on those lists  
but uh um there were certain things that they could provide without a doctors prescription based on their qualifications  
and   that can happen  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think so  
you too  
good bye  
well i personally don't have any problem with uh drug testing employees or potential employees do you  
i mean basically  
okay  
i don't  
i really can't disagree with it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think that's really the only fair way to do it  
i really think it ought to be  
you know [junkins] all the way down  
right  
as a matter of fact i want to think they took the top managers first  
isn't that a fact  
i've been retired from t i about a year  
but the program you know was still fairly new  
i guess it had been going on maybe almost a year   before i retired  
so i was not uh ever called upon to do a drug test  
i certainly wouldn't object to it  
and i think random is probably you know the only really fair way to do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i  
absolutely  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't think they'll have much choice do you  
especially if they have anything do with you know government contracts or anything  
as matter of fact i want to believe that the uh defense department more or less [mandated] that people you know who work on defense contracts you know   do some sort of you know drug testing  
i think that's really what maybe [prompted] t i to do it  
i was in the uh defense electronic division when i retired  
i know it was a you know it was a real hot hot item there  
i think i want to think maybe they you know really got some [nudging] from you know d o d to do this sort of thing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so you you know the atmosphere then  
so yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i agree  
i  
that's right  
that's  
absolutely  
yeah  
i  
i just can't disagree with you with you know the basic premise  
it's to  
as far as i know it's you know seems to be a fairly accurate program as far as uh you know the testing goes  
and uh  
that's right  
that's right  
and offer you you know help if you need help  
yeah  
i do too   put you out on the street  
yeah  
that's right  
no  

that's right  
oh absolutely  
not to mention alcohol  
yep  
yep  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
oh gosh  
well it's it's a real problem  
i'm sure  
i'm sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i know a lot of people who when it first  
or at least began was in the talking  
you know everybody knew it was coming  
it just a matter of time everybody was screaming you know invasion of privacy and all this stuff  
but a lot of people i think after they thought about it for awhile and you know weighed the pros and cons decided you know it's really not a bad idea unless you're doing drugs of course  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yep  
yep  
that's right  
or yourself  
or  
yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
assembly people  
that's right  
that's  
absolutely  
uh_huh  
oh absolutely  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
[trickles] [trickles] up and down  
sure does  
yeah  
affects a lot of people  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think they probably will  
you know if if they  
i'm sure it's a very expensive program to administer  
i'm not sure every small company could do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's got to help them too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do too  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
but it'll save in some areas  
yeah  
right  
that's right  
that certainly could happen  
that's a very very very competitive business  
yeah  
i do too  
i just really can't disagree with you  
okay  
well it's nice to talk to you  
and you take care  
okay  
bye bye  
um  
basically no  
um   yeah  
i i uh uh  
the policy that t i has i think is uh uh very fair  
um i  
they first had a policy where they uh would test new employees  
and then since i've been with them the last four years uh there's been in the last year year and a half um they're doing random testing of all employees  
yes  
and it is  
it  
and from what i understand it is jerry [junkins] all the way down  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um i like it because um  
you know i i i grew up in the sixties  
i mean   i graduated high school in sixty eight  
and   and uh you know i i saw  
you know i know my friends who were you know [druggies] and   friends who weren't  
and   and uh you know it's i think it's a real problem  
and i think it and i think it's causing us a lot of trouble and   and a lot of problems  
and so i'm hoping that uh a lot of other companies will will follow the same path  
um probably not  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i used to be in d s e g myself   um a p d as a matter of fact  
yep  
very aware of it  
but i i'd i'd i really like the idea   uh in fact i would like to see uh a lot more uh people uh adopt it   uh like you know school systems and that kind of thing  
i mean i'd like i'd like to know that my child's being taught by a teacher who's not on drugs or   or uh who might be at a point where they're trying to sell my kid drugs  
yeah  
and i like the idea that they have a uh system where they allow you to uh be [retested] if for   some reason there may have been a problem   or something did show up  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
rather than just uh   put you out on the street and let you fend for yourself  
that's not going to help anybody get over the problem  
i believe it is a a a medical problem  
um of course i also think smoking is the most addictive thing in the world too  
yeah  
so i mean there's a lot of things out there  
and   things that uh  
i'm just glad that they uh decided not to uh tax drugs otherwise they'd be legal  
and they'd be getting tax money off it the same way   they are the alcohol and tobacco  
yeah  
i have friends that work in other companies that are just now adopting the policy   and and stuff  
and i uh uh i moved to a t i facility that um had never had uh random drug sampling before   because they were outside of the military sector  
it was uh an industrial company and you know that t i purchased  
and so the people here a lot of them are real opposed to it  
uh they were really opposed to it  
and you know there was a few of them that obviously were doing drugs  
and that's why they were opposed to it  
and uh it resulted in in a few people leaving   you know because they just flat out weren't going to put up with the policy  
you know they had a life style  
and they weren't going to change it  
and it's  
yeah  
i mean uh you should have no objection to it  
it's like uh going down to get your license and checking your eyes  
i mean you know why do i need my eyes checked  
well   we want to make sure you can see  
you know it's like why are we doing this  
well so you don't kill people on the road  
uh it's a  
i mean it's the basic premise with   you know drug testing  
especially some of the jobs um  
luckily i've always been in the engineering sector  
and it's very little that anyone could do in the engineering sector as far as uh you know hurting someone i mean  
it's hard to imagine somebody [misusing] a computer and somebody dying from it  
but uh in the manufacturing sectors and over in semiconductor   and down in some of those labs and stuff   yeah i darn if i'd want somebody down there that i'm working with side by side you know that could kill me   by doing something incorrectly because they were not exactly all there because they were on drugs  
so there's a there's a lot of sectors where i think that would would help out  
and i think in the long run we all benefit  
i mean if you have uh  
you know if you're not working with someone on drugs well then you're going to have less accidents  
and you have less accidents  
and you spend less money on medical  
and you spend less money on medical then the company's more profitable  
the company's more profitable   then maybe they can pay you more  
if they can pay you more you can buy more  
and then and it  
and it goes around   you know to everywhere  
yep  
all over  
and uh  
it certainly does  
and   i i just hope that uh more and more companies uh get on the ball  
and and and start it up  
well a lot of companies are are coming down in price  
and i think that the insurance companies are starting to give uh benefits  
you know reduction in in medical costs if you know they  
yeah  
so i think everybody will will benefit from the program  
and i think if if a lot more insurance companies get on the bandwagon and say   well if you impose uh   mandatory drug testing we'll reduce your insurance costs by   you know twenty per cent  
and of course you know the company's not going to reduce the [employee's] cost of insurance twenty per cent they're going to reduce their own  
yeah  
and that'll cover it  
and maybe some insurance companies might start offering it as a uh as part of the package  
yeah  
so it  
i i think i think all around it it's going to help out a lot  
course  
yeah  
it was great talking with you  
you do the same  
bye bye  
all right  
um that's a good question  
um   i had a job i had to go get a blood test for  
um  
and and they did a full blood screen on me  
but they didn't call that a drug test  
so  
i think they checked for drugs  
they just don't tell you they did  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i guess it depends on if you got something to worry about  
well i i i come from kind of a biased opinion because i'm a a therapist and a drug and alcohol counselor  
and i've done employee assistant work  
and i i know the kind of cost businesses go through in terms of accidents   on the job that are specifically drug and alcohol related  
and it's like in the billions of dollars every year um  
and the only way that they can prevent that is is you know making sure that the employees are drug and alcohol free  
and you know the the problem in the work place is that that people are  
like if your boss is your drinking buddy or whatever i mean you can come to come to work drunk and get in an accident  
and he'll cover up for you  
and   nobody knows about it  
but you know ends up costing the company lots and lots of money  
so  
you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well there  
it's i i think one of the problems with it is it affects a lot of other folks on the job   if somebody else is [impaired]  
because generally you know it  
uh you find out one way or another if somebody's got a problem on the job  
and if even if like you say even if it's just the secretary  
if her work or abilities start affecting her co workers   then it it's still a problem  
so  
well yeah  
i guess it comes with the turf  
yeah  
man  
and in terms of drugs they're illegal  
so you're   you're breaking the law anyway  
probably the the biggest problem with those is they don't do a real good job of of [assessing] for alcohol  
and that's probably the biggest problem there is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i guess that's one of the positive things that have come out of it some of the employee assistance program  
if you do test positive for something   they will give you an opportunity to go get your life straight rather than to lose you're job  
and i  

yeah  
i think the the company benefits in the long run  
what what kind of testing do they do when you went  
urine screen  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that happens  
it happens a lot  
there there are people that pay other people to   to help them out  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it depends really on how how strong a test it is  
they've got different degrees   as far as as how far back they can check  
they got some unusual things besides blood and urine tests  
they've some companies that are doing uh hair tests  
yeah  
well that  
they'll pull out one of your hairs  
and they can apparently test um back a certain period of time   because some of the the [residue] ends up in your hair [follicles] you know  
it's kind of  
hair [follicles] i guess are just dead protein  
and they  
and it it's apparently almost like a a calendar  
they they've got it pretty precise now  
they can go back and look at in terms of growth in a in a hair when you used and and that type of thing  
so  
yeah  
so i guess if they perfect that is not quite as cumbersome as having to go fill a bottle or   give blood or something like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i did too  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
have you ever been drug tested  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i had i've had uh two or three drug tests that i had to get before i could start working at a job   uh different jobs  
i had one at t i and then one at another engineering company  
and really i mean i don't mind them  
i don't do drugs anyway  
i guess if i did maybe i would  
but um i don't know  
i know a girl that she's a nurse  
and they get drug tested randomly  
i've   never been randomly drug tested  
but that would probably bother me to wake up one day and find out halfway through the day that you're going to be drug tested and you didn't know about it  
yeah  
i guess so  
i guess so  
do you think that it's right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's true  
right  
that's true  
i believe   it's right   especially for certain jobs  
i think anyone in a in a public job like bus drivers and cab drivers and   police officers and things like that  
i think they should be   randomly drug tested  
i believe   full force in that  
i don't know that i believe every secretary in every company needs to be  
you know secretaries aren't aren't really going to cost the company that much money if they fall face forward in their typewriter or something  
so i don't know  
i i'm kind of biased too because i don't do drugs  
and   so i really don't care one way or another if anybody wants to pull me up tomorrow and test me   because i have nothing to worry about  
so i guess that's kind of biased  
yeah  
it does  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
that's true  
but what do you do about   the occasional user that may have gone to a party three days before  
and you know it's it's been the whole weekend since they've done anything  
and they happen to be tested monday morning  
and they could be fired for that  
you know that that's kind of unfair also  
yeah  
i guess so  
i guess if you're going to do it you need to suffer the consequences  
that's true  
that's true  
that's true  
yeah  
i think so more than drugs  
and i know a lot of companies that will put you in an alcohol rehabilitation before they would put you in a drug rehab  
they would pay for an alcohol  
but they don't always pay for drug rehabilitation  
yeah  
that's true  
i   think that's fair  
yeah  
that's true  
that's about all i have   to say on it  
uh it's a urine test  
and   they uh  
it was really very official  
you have to go in a room solely by yourself sign papers that say you were totally alone sign papers that say this is yours  
and and you have to seal the bottle yourself and label it yourself and   all of that  
so that they're sure that you haven't borrowed anybody's i guess or something  
yeah  
i know  
i it's hard to believe  
but i guess it does  
i know  
i'm amazed   at the things people   will do  
it is amazing  
i guess there are people that do that  
and they are those are expensive tests  
i'm   glad i never had to pay for one  
yeah  
i guess so  
oh really  
how weird  
i didn't know that  
oh that's weird  
yeah  
that's wild  
it's amazing the things they can find out from different things on your body  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
i'm glad i never had to do it by giving blood  
i can't stand the thought of giving blood  
i can't even do it for [wadley] even though it's a good cause  
well i enjoyed talking to you  
thank you  
bye bye  
okay  
uh i really haven't thought about the topic of drug testing  
but uh just off the top of my head i i don't think i see much wrong with it  
um if i owned a company and i wanted to make sure that it was run smoothly and that the people that i had uh coming in uh were trust worthy et cetera and so on i think i would i would uh probably do the random testing just to insure that my company uh runs safely and smoothly  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
i didn't think about that  
like for instance   uh if someone's working on heavy machinery   or say driving trucks or buses city buses or something like that  
then that is something that affects the that affects the community  
you know if you're you're drinking or on drugs or whatever you're driving a city bus you taking several lives in your hands  
yeah  
and for me i think that drug testing it follows the path that society is going in  
if more and more people are using drugs then i think that some people have to guard against people that are using drugs  
i mean it's just it's just where society is right now  
and you know something we have to cope with  
and i think the drug testing is something that the drug users have to cope with  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that may be  
that means one of the points of it  
of course i think um i'm not sure you know what the time span is  
but i mean if i used drugs last week and i had a you know job interview that i wouldn't use drugs the day before or something  
and they wouldn't even see it  
you know what i'm saying  
they may not be able to trace it  
i don't know how far they trace  
i don't know what the you know limits are  
yeah  
um   oh really  
something like that  
yeah  
um   yeah  
i mean i don't use any drugs  
i don't really drink or anything  
so i'm pretty uh uh i guess [decisive] about that  
just the fact that since i don't use drugs i have no problem with taking a test  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so the only thing i would hate is if i were to go and uh  
i mean it's kind of the same thing with the lie detector test  
if you don't have anything to hide you're not going to mind it  
you know but people that   you know don't have anything to hide  
and then there are some things that just aren't peoples business   that come out at that point  
so i think that a lot of people have trouble with that  
i can i can understand that  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i took a lie detector once  
and i didn't mind it  
but i was just offended by some of the questions i guess  
i mean there was one question do you like your mother  
you know  
i said yes  
do you hate your mother  
no  
have you ever killed your mother  
and i was going you know   what in the world  
is that what it was  
oh okay  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
kind of get   kind of get something to measure my [responses] by  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they ask why i was going  
what in the world are you asking me about here  
you know   but i guess i don't know some people have probably killed their mothers  
i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
huh_uh   i never thought about that  
that makes me feel a little better  
of course that was years and years ago  
and i   i don't think that some i mean there are some people i mean  
because in society a lot of people are taking drugs  
there is also people that are getting off drugs and trying to do better with their lives  
but they take a lie detector test or a drug test or whatever  
and the stuff that happened to them you know five years ago comes up  
and it [spoils] their chances for just making it a little better  
you know when they might be actually trying to   improve their lives  
huh_uh  
huh_uh   huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i would probably do that  
and i would probably bring something in showing that i had been to such and such hospital for help or you know   whatever the twelve month program  
or whatever it is that they do  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm not sure what they are either  
yeah  
yeah  
the other day we had talked about uh capital punishment  
and i really really hadn't thought about it  
i mean i think about it because i hear about it  
but i hadn't had to sit down and and well what do i think about it  
you know and that's kind of like today  
i'm not real sure what i think about it  
i'm kind of you know in the middle on that one  
huh_uh  
really  
really  
okay  
it was very nice talking to you  
okay  
take care  
bye bye  
yeah  
um i i also haven't thought too much about it  
uh but i suspect it it very much depends upon the job  
maybe  
there are some jobs where i guess it doesn't really  
and it's it's it's if it's not affecting someone's performance then i'm not sure if it's a problem  
if if it's a position where it could potentially affect   if if if  
right  
right  
and then if you're a computer operator and uh there's really no big deal  
i think you know   that maybe it's not necessary  
huh_uh  
yeah  
well i think it may it may that's in in that respect i think it may help a lot  
i think it may be pushing people hopefully push people away from drug use   if they no that you know  
if you use drugs you won't get the job  
i mean   yeah  
i don't know  
i don't know  
that would actually be an interesting thing to find out i think  
i don't i don't actually know how long those things stay in the blood in the system  
i've heard some i've heard some things will stay there for six months  
some stay for less  
some stay for longer  
things like l s d i guess stay forever  
in some ways  
you get [flashbacks] for uh forever  
i i i guess so  
i mean there must be some some something  
i mean people get these little [flashback] things you know   of some sort  
so i don't really know  
right  
well see if you actually used drugs at all  
and i'm i'm at at most a social drinker  
so it's never a problem  
right  
right  
that that that  
but   that's a fine line to draw  
i mean uh that's really  
do you uh   do you worry about you know this or that  
i mean you know what about the rights   to privacy  
what if they're doing something legal  
but they would rather have it private   you know  
like especially in the case of drinking  
you know if someone is something more than a social drinker shall we say yet they're not an alcoholic what do you do  
so  
well those are just  
yeah  
those are just to get probably to get some sort of those are to get the shock value out of you  
or just to see   shock  
i do some i'm a graduate student in psych  
and we sort of you know figure out  
um i know a little bit about that kind of stuff  
what they're trying to do there is they want to sort of get a base line measure for you you know  
how is it that when you see these things and you know   and and and  
yeah  
but with them they have no idea if you're just sort of jumping   around and being [fidgety]  
maybe  
it can be shocking  
and   shock you  
yeah  
yeah  
well i guess so  
i mean i guess i don't know how what actually happens if uh if you have killed your mother  
big jump there  
you know   but yeah  
i think it's their way of saying how well you do   in a shock situation without worrying about   stuff like that  
so     yeah  
yeah  
and i don't think that you killed your mother though  
i wouldn't worry about that  
yeah  
yeah  
that's uh you know it it could blow things right away for them you know  
unless they say well look unless they walk in they could walk in and say look i did do drugs a year ago  
and i'm off them for a year now  
i'll be happy to take the test  
but it will show up positive  
versus  
yeah  
yeah  
because i mean then although then they can't legally [discriminate] i think on the basis  
but i don't really know  
i don't know what the laws are [pertaining] to this  
my wife probably does  
i don't i don't  
but it's an interesting topic that i never actually thought about  
oh i  
yeah  
well these are tough  
i sort of like that stuff  
it makes you think  
so i think that's real good  
nice talking to you to  
bye bye  
well i i feel in light of some of the accidents and so forth that have happened lately that i think there are some occupations that they should such as the health field the transportation field uh  
they're already doing it in the armed forces where they handle weapons and so forth uh  
they do it to prisoners  
so i i uh i i i feel like it should be mandatory in some professions  
and i think if if uh an employer feels that he wants to to drug test employees and they don't like it then they should not be employed there  
that was  
you know i would not mind it  
right  
uh_huh  
unless an employer has a reason to   believe that his uh the work competency of of the employee is is hurting the business  
i mean maybe it's uh  
number one because generally if if they are involved in that type of thing they are into theft  
and as an employer i would think that would be  
and the first  
it's not going to be wholesale because of the cost  
there's no way  
but but my concern is uh school bus drivers  
um i'm not even  
i'm in education  
i'm not even opposed to it for that  
uh i'm concerned in the medical field  
i i i think they should screen for alcohol in these areas too   because i consider that a drug  
right  
right  
right  
but when you consider they could be driving an airplane   or driving a bus or a train um  
and it doesn't take that long  
they don't have to be totally [roaring] drunk  
just a little   off on their timing   could could mean life  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
control  
right  
well as long as you accept that it is a random a random testing   uh you know to to alleviate  
that way you can't feel like somebody's out to get me  
if  
it's almost like being selected for jury duty  
you know so your name came out of pot when they spun the wheel  
that's that's just the way it is  
i would i would rather have it that way to know that i was chosen at random by a computer than to think that somebody turned me in   because i i think there's when you let other employees turn in people  
right  
right  
so i i i would really rather know however  
there's got to be some backup to say that  
if if somebody does observe you at say at a party uh using drugs   i would think that it would be their obligation to report that  
personnel or something  
right  
right  
right  
i don't know what kind of work you do  
but there there would be even be a situation where you were at a machine and working with somebody that was that way  
right  
right  
right  
it's it's  
i i just think employers have to have especially given today the drug abuse that goes on i just think employers have to have some kind of way to see that they're not being put at   risk   because   they're the ones who are going to have the lawsuits the insurance claims et cetera  
and and i'm not sure but what some of the insurance claims aren't due to uh illnesses brought on by drug abuse or alcohol abuse  
right  
right  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
to see how that's  
is it is it uh just a small group of the employees that are concerned  
they they just don't want to be drug tested  
you know we've never my husband and i have never been in a situation where somebody said you have to be drug tested  
uh my husband's retired from i r s agents  
however this isn't a problem that we have   either alcohol or drug  
and so we we in our minds we're thinking what's the big deal  
right  
and and then they say well if you give them the right to do this then they're going to take some other right away from you  
but i i  
i think that an employer has the right to ask you to do anything  
and of course the big deal one of the big deals now too is to that when you come into a company as you sign a paper saying that i will go take a  
what do you think about it  
yeah  
yeah  
i i especially agree that if it's an area where they could cause somebody else you know   harm or injury absolutely  
and i don't have a problem at all with employers uh testing in the hiring process  
but i i i don't i don't have a problem with them too much testing even after the fact  
but i do a little bit where it where it wouldn't hurt anybody  
i don't know  
sometimes i think they carry it a little bit too far  
but  
yeah  
right  
and then it's not a problem  
yeah  
oh absolutely  
oh yeah  

the train drivers  
yeah  
i wish they would  
i wish they would  
and that i think is even probably more widely abused   by you know the masses   than than drugs so to speak  
so  
oh i know  
and  
no  
just uh  
yeah  
and  
now t i has the random testing policy  
and and you know our names or our employee numbers or whatever are in a in a pool  
so i've already been tested once when i was hired and and once since they initiated this random testing program  
but i work with one girl who was tested her name got got randomly selected three times in six months  
and i think that's the only reason i have a problem with it when there's no you know there's no reason   to suspect someone you know  
that that's getting a little bit  
that's enough to make anybody paranoid  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
either just the lucky or the [unlucky] one depending on how you look at it  
oh absolutely  
there are so many people with with their petty [axes] to grind  
it could really get   out of hand  
yeah  
to report it  
and i guess you'd report that to a supervisor maybe   [anonymously] or something   because i i would feel very uncomfortable working with someone i knew was using either illegal drugs or abusing alcohol  
i'd just   i'd feel really uncomfortable  
yeah  
we have we have a lot of people who work on the line  
i'm in accounting  
so it wouldn't  
you know   they couldn't hurt me with their ten key or something  
but out on the line they've got people working some   serious equipment  
so  
put at risk  
i agree   totally  
and in the long run we're all paying for that  
so it i mean it protects us in the long run hopefully   when they do that  
i i was trying to remember there was a court case uh here where i live just a few months ago  
the city workers they wanted to um  
the city government wanted to institute the random drug testing  
and the city workers uh took them to court to protest saying that it invaded their i guess first the the search and [seizure] amendment  
and it's still tied up in the legal channels  
they haven't ruled on whether they can test them or not  
so i'm curious especially since t i   a local you know employer is also already doing it seeing what they'll say about it especially since  
well it's the whole it's the whole city  
seems like the whole group of city employees that's raising a stink over it  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's the way i looked at it  
if i had something to hide it's one thing  
but i'm  
you know you know you don't  
so it's not as big a deal  
and you sometimes wonder when these people protest so much whether they're really concerned   about their rights or whether they're really concerned about something else  
i don't believe that  
well basically i think it would be a good idea myself  
i uh i think if somebody's not on drugs they have no reason you know to be afraid of it  
uh i do think that there has to be some controls uh  
like i don't think one test positive should uh be uh the end of it you know  
i i think they should test more than once  
it  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there's so many jobs that uh   really have other people's lives in their hands or even their own life  
and you know and it's uh  
uh how can you do anything about a problem besides if you don't know about it  
you know and i just um i i think   there definitely needs to be some control to it  
i guess it is possible to have a false positive report  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or somebody's test gets mixed up with somebody else's  
i mean those things do happen  
uh i certainly wouldn't want people's lives ruined   uh wrongly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and you maybe need to look for some other type of job to do   that uh doesn't require the testing  
uh to me it's to me it's not an invasion or privacy  
i think it's people have a right to know if if uh their their life [maybe's] in jeopardy or uh   yeah  
their work the work they're doing for their company  
uh those things are all affected  
if not immediately it certainly does eventually  
i think that's where a lot of the problem is at first  
it doesn't seem to uh bother the quality of work  
but eventually it does  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
course i feel the same way on the aids problem  
i i don't think that's an invasion of privacy  
that's the only [communicable] disease that they're not allowed to test for   you know  
and it's destroying a lot of   people's lives  
yeah  
and it's you know it's it's destroying people's lives  
and i i think that person plus anybody in danger should should know about it and be aware of it  
i don't know  
it's it's kind of hard to  
i guess the gay movement has had a lot to do with considering that that uh an invasion of privacy  
of course that's not supposed to be what we're talking about today i guess  
so   i kind of get off on a [tangent] here  
uh do you work for uh texas instruments  
uh_huh  
um  
oh that's probably why  
my brother did live in grapevine texas  
that's near dallas  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's pretty hot down there probably  
yeah  
oh did you really  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
we we need rain real bad up here  
it's uh everything's really getting dry  
it's uh  
yeah  
it's kind of at a dangerous level here  
people hauling water  
and uh   it's getting real bad  
so  
so  
um so do i  
uh i can't think of anything else uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i can understand  
i know if somebody is using drugs and doesn't think there's anything wrong with them i can see them [objecting] you know  
there's a lot of people that think that there's nothing wrong with  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i'll be darn  
yeah  
yeah  
the different cultures and that   too uh  
no  
no  
i'm sure it would have to affect you the same way  
i i can't think that would make any difference   whether it was legal or not  
it it would still have to affect you the same way  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
you can't you go by their laws  
the same way our people have to go by their laws when they're over there  
that's why a lot get in trouble   because they have to follow their rules  
and uh   some of the countries are very much against drugs  
and you use them you pay for it  
yeah  
a lot of them  
yeah  
where where   is it they lose the if they steal they lose a thumb or a finger  
is that where it is  
i thought wow  
you know that's quite a deterrent  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so i guess you know we we have so many freedoms over here we sometimes forget about how   great out country really is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they they abuse it   is what they do  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
well how do you feel about spot spot testing for drugs  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it's it's   it's refreshing to hear somebody   that has a similar opinion as mine  
i mean all these people that are against it that may you know they may not even be on drugs  
they they call it an invasion of privacy  
and i don't see that  
to me that just doesn't sound like a valid argument because this company is paying you good money that you're working for  
and they i believe that   they have the right to know if you're using a a dangerous substance  
but  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yes  
no  
i i i agree that you know you there needs to be a a well thought out sane approach to   how to administer that program  
just because you you something can get mixed in the mail  
or   uh the chemicals could react incorrectly than than what you would expect them to  
and yeah  
you you know  
right  
yeah  
right  
and you know i've  
the the the company that i work for uh has just recently well you know within the last couple of years instituted for all new hired employees  
they submit to a urine test  
and they they say that there's been you know they they they've also implemented random testing  
and it hasn't happened to me in the couple of years that you know it's been in progress  
but uh i i fully agree with it  
and there's you know there's all these memos going around about folks that are disgruntled and feel it's an invasion of privacy  
and   i i agree with you  
if if if you feel it's an invasion of privacy you've you've probably got something you're trying to hide  
yeah  
right  
or the quality of their product  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
because it usually requires more and more of that substance that you're [misusing]   to get the same effect  
um  
and then   and one of the few that they don't have a cure for  
yeah  

yeah  
yes  
i do  
and i'm i'm down in the the central  
but i don't know how familiar you are with texas  
but i'm in a we live in a town uh near a town called temple   which is right in between waco and austin on the freeway  
right  
we're probably about two two and a half hours south of him  
so  
oh my  
it's actually we got about two inches of rain in about three hours yesterday  
and it's   cooled things down somewhat  
it's getting more humid now  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's been about three weeks since we've had any  
um  
wow  
how about that  
well i hope you do get some rain up there  
i  
yeah  
i i guess being in agreement   kind of tends to limit the conversation   you know  
one of the things i found interesting  
it it's funny that you mentioned that  
t i is pretty much a worldwide company  
and we have manufacturing plants all around the world   including some places where the use of certain drugs that are illegal here are not illegal  
yeah  
they don't have to submit to drug testing like like they do here in the states and some places abroad  
yeah  
i thought that was kind of interesting too  
yeah  
i mean uh uh from a quality standpoint that's not i mean just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it doesn't affect you the same way  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
but like if you're going to do business in another country you've got to respect their rules  
i mean if if you know that that's the trade off  
yeah  
huh  
right  
usually with you life in some places  
that's right  
yeah  
from the middle east  
yeah  
iraq iran in that area  
yeah  
well in saudi arabia you know using uh alcohol and drugs and something like that you get the death penalty  
so it's pretty strict over there  
well people tend to   take the first amendment out of context   which which means   you know i could do anything i want to  
and you can't stop me  
and you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so that's  
i don't know  
i'm i'm glad to see more and more companies implementing the policy  
okay  
uh well since i initiated the call i guess i'll start off first  
uh number one i have absolutely no problem with random testing uh  
i spend an awful lot of time traveling on the job  
and i feel i would be very comfortable if they would do drug testing for particularly airline pilots and the such  
i'd feel much more comfortable than i do now based on what i've been hearing in the newspapers  
so i really don't have a problem with it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i well i happen to be uh  
my job is i'm supervisor of personnel safety for the world's largest paint company  
so i  
it's very near and dear to me when we start talking about drug testing for random sampling and testing for cause this type of thing  
and even in our field we have people that are in very high risk jobs  
and we at the present time do not have random testing  
and i am pushing towards that  
i i honestly feel if people have nothing to hide they shouldn't have a problem with it  
and if they are trying to hide something then i have to know that because we're we're talking major [liabilities]  
not only with themselves but with other employees  
and i really you know  
they they're talking about sports and sports personalities and all this stuff that i i would much much prefer having doctors and airline pilots tested   on a random basis  
i i have a real fear  
but that at some point something's going to happen  
and they're showing it with aids  
so why you know  
they they ought to start doing something with the drugs  
so i really have no problem with it  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh really  
well that scares me because if that's the way they are  
i  
if i were a dentist i'd want to be protected too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well you where you're located i i do know texas instruments has random drug testing  
and i think they've had it for several years  
and they're program they had i don't think had a lot of uh problems associated with it  
but uh my brother in law happens to work there  
and it it sounded very positive  
and i i think it's great  
i i would like i would encourage it  
i'm pushing our company towards that  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
right  
ours is changing  
yeah  
ours ours is changing  
it's increasing  
i live in a i live in a very nice suburb  
and it's it's it's unbelievable what what what's going on and the drugs the selling of drugs  
it's just it's just too loose  
it's too free  
uh_huh  
really  
yeah uh  
i don't either  
i uh i've never  
i don't work at home right now  
i stay home with my children  
uh but my husband works  
and they do have that at his place of employment  
and neither of us have a problem with it  
we've particularly like you said with the things that the airlines and and such  
it's uh it's a scary thing to know that uh you just don't know what people are doing   uh before they go to work  
so and the the advertisements on television lately have been so uh  
there have been so many you know  
there's uh  
just about  
like train train [wrecks] and things like that that  
i feel like  
probably just for our own safety when we're traveling and things that would be something i'd like to know that's going on  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well it's it's unfortunate i think that everyone doesn't have that opinion  
uh some people just uh i've heard some people just talking in our group of friends that they just feel it's an invasion of privacy and things like that  
but uh in the long run it seems to me it's kind of like what they keep talking about the uh the aids testing with doctors or dentists and things   and how that you know  
they feel that's not fair and whatever  
but you know those kind of things i'd like to know   myself  
it wouldn't be  
in my opinion  
i i've had a lot of dental work done  
and the last dentist didn't even use gloves at all  
so  
that kind of  
yeah  
and uh so that kind of thing really kind of concerns me  
well you would think so  
that is because well  
and i worked for a dentist  
and that's uh you know  
you you come in contact with a lot of of blood and things like that  
and it's real real dangerous  
i i would think  
but with all the accidents just with with uh everything happening with  
just  
airlines just drive me crazy  
people are afraid to fly now   you know just because of they don't know what their [pilot's] been doing and and things like that  
and  
i don't know  
uh_huh  
well and you know if they do find someone who who is uh having a problem with drugs  
and they can get them the help that they need   as opposed to just letting the problem go on with without any uh support   and whatever  
because a lot of people seems like would probably obviously are trying to hide that   uh from their employer and friends and family and things  
and too many people are just dying   particularly in our area  
i don't know what the crime is like where you are  
but the crime rate here is just astronomical  
uh_huh  
i just got a piece of paper the other day uh that now they have these  
i have two little very little children under two  
and i got a piece of paper from from my husband's office  
it's talking about these uh drug [tattoos] now   that they have got  
that look like it looks like a sticker  
and it's for kid  
uh i work at t i  
and we have uh of course started drug testing uh random drug testing here  
and uh i haven't gotten called yet  
but uh i feel that it's probably it's pretty good if if they feel like there is a vast majority of the people at the company doing drugs  
uh i think that they thought that there was a lot of drug usage here at t i  
but i think our latest statistic said something like ninety nine point nine eight percent were uh testing negative on all the   on on all the testing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
i  
at t i if you get called in and you test positive for drugs then you're put on a program  
and uh you know you go through the program  
and then you're called like six months after you complete the program  
and if you test positive then you're [terminated]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
oh and of course they can also cause injury to other people  
if they're if they're not uh you know fully functional mentally while they're doing their job they could cause   you know serious injury to   another people  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
so  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
you know i think personally i'm for it  
there's several reason why i i could think of right now why we shouldn't have it such as drug testing  
they say runs approximately a thousand dollars a person every time you do it  
and  
yes  
and oh yeah  
it's very expensive  
and uh  
uh_huh  
it's not like a normal urinalysis  
it's very expensive to run them  
and uh i didn't get a raise this year  
because nobody in our company got a raise  
but yet   they spend all the money on drug testing  
and if they weren't spending all the money on drug testing people could have got a raise  
so see there you know there's different  
i don't think that that's that i think that's more of a personal view of mine   other than a a yes sir we should have drug testing because there's really a problem  
and i know that  
but then i have other views to it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
[their's] might not run a thousand dollars  
our  
from what i understanding here at t i they run close to a thousand dollars an employee  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but no  
for all the the  
oh it's  
do they feel that way  
uh_huh  
well i i think it's a good idea just because i'm opposed to   to the drugs  
i think it can cause a lot of problems even though they think they can handle it  
it's uh  
i don't know  
i don't really [liken] it to alcohol  
but yet that can be carried to an extreme too  
so i think it's a good idea  
and i think just the idea that you know that you may be tested   might keep you off of them or get you off of them because you're  
i don't know that their job would be at risk  
because i think they may put them into some sort of a program to get them off of drugs  
i would think that  
is that how they do it at t i maybe  
that  
uh_huh  
well i guess i i draw a hard line  
but you know i would i'm i'm in favor of of that type of thing   that uh you you have people out there that are responsible for certain things  
and you expect them to do their job  
and   it it is possible that you know that they can't do as good a job uh as they might do  
uh_huh  
right  
and you never know  
they could just go off the deep end   on on a on something   uh that whatever   they're taking at the time  
and and it would be uh you know out of the question  
also i guess you can you know get the wrong kind of stuff and kill yourself   just by having a wrong mix of or watered down or   or whatever all kinds  
i sub in the schools  
so i've you know had a  
they   they talk a lot about   drugs there  
and i think it's good that they're trying to start some programs down in the elementary schools  
but you know i think they can test all they want for drugs you know  
and   if they need to do that as a condition for employment  
and i know many of them are doing it  
i know my son has had to do it for both sam's and wal mart  
and i don't know how many others are doing that  
and and i think that's good   because   so many of the kids that are on them are sort of [bums] that they need to get their life straightened up at   an early age  
and uh i don't know  
it's just a problem that no one is sure just how to handle   i think  
really  
it's that high  
oh  
i didn't realize   it was that expensive  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just lucky to have jobs  
uh_huh  
i just i didn't think it was that expensive because my son was in probably a week and a half period  
and sam's and wal mart are are owned by the same people  
he took one for for uh wal mart   for job hiring  
and then sam's called him  
and and he took another one  
and i you know i don't know why they both made him do that   since it was so close together  
i can see if  
because you know if it's a thousand dollars that's a thousand dollars they wasted  
well maybe they run  
i don't know you know  
that's just guessing it  
maybe they run a lot of other tests  
or maybe it's under a health   type program that it   it it would catch a lot of things  
i i just can't imagine   them screening all these employees paying a thousand dollars to get them  
well how did you like that topic  
do you  
i don't  
no  
i'm pretty opinionated about that and many other things as you well know  
i agree with it  
i think uh i think a company should be able to test at any any employee any time they see fit  
i just i just don't think there's a place in our environment you know in the work force for drugs or alcohol either  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you did  
uh_huh well i can sort of understand that uh  
but not being a teacher as you are you know i i was not quite as sympathetic as you know as i probably would have been if if kay were a teacher or something  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
uh that's right  
and i think it is a big problem with them using drugs   from what you read you know  
but uh  
yeah  
i think so   too  
i i agree with it  
uh i know [kay's] company you know  
they started it couple of years ago  
and so many of the people even the professional people were boy they were so against them doing that you know  
and i thought jeez to me it's quite simple  
uh you either need a job or you don't  
the the job is what provides all of your needs  
and uh if they say hey you can't do this work i'd say hey i agree i don't i won't do that  
and i think most of them have agreed to that now although they didn't like it at first  
yeah  
it is  
i can see where you would think  
yeah  
that is [belittling] you know i'd probably feel the same way if i had to do that  
yeah  
that's true  
you bet  
oh gosh they they would really raise a stink if that was to   happen  
right  
yes  
i agree with that  
i i i wouldn't be opposed to it at all  
it's just our bleeding heart liberals that would fight it tooth and nail you know  
but uh well lynn i've enjoyed talking with you  
i don't know how long we're supposed to carry on a conversation do you  
oh well we'd better keep talking because i've not heard it have we  
have you heard it  
anyway we both sort of agree on it don't we   about random testing  
well listen  
yeah  
yeah  
if you agree that uh  
yeah  
is that right  
you just don't think of that happening with teachers  
i really don't  
when i think of drug testing i'm thinking of the you know outside of education  
sure   sure  
i know that  
but uh   you don't think of that first hand normally  
isn't that   isn't that   mind boggling  
goodness  
it it is it's mind you know well you know  
i agree with you  
i know teachers are just like everybody else same problems   the same uh good qualities as anybody else  
yeah  
yeah  
you you think the benefit would be greater than the  
uh_huh  
and that was in your children's high school  
isn't that amazing  
if it if it's   if it was true there i'm sure it's true with just about probably to some degree every school there is  
you know because they represent a pretty good  
no  
certainly not  
certainly not  
they don't need that example  
but  
uh i don't know  
i've got mixed feelings about the topic  
no  
okay  
well  
well i don't believe in drugs or alcohol  
but if you'll remember when the teachers had to take the t cat   they were talking about drug testing us  
and we were laughing that we'd have to go to that [examination] to prove we could read and write with a [specimen] of urine  
and we found it [belittling]  
yeah  
that's true  
but then you know at the same token i'm not against  
because i look at airline pilots   bus drivers   you know people that really have other [peoples'] lives in their hands   truck drivers  
it's supposed to be a huge problem with truck drivers using drugs   and alcohol  
and  
you know in those areas i really you know do believe that maybe we should clean up our you know   house  
yeah  
i think it's just like anything else a new concept you know  
as i said if i have to go to a testing area with my urine [specimen] i was insulted  
but at the same token in education we can't do drug random drug testing on kids  
you know i mean their rights are protected  
what  
well but why if you're going to do teachers or professionals why not do the kids   when we see them and they're you know under the influence  
that's true  
it's three minutes  
and the [clicker] comes in when it's time to  
yeah  
no  
well   do we agree or unless it's not me  
you know here we go again i mean  
yeah you know  
i believe that truck drivers and people that have  
even though teachers have other kids lives in their hands and if they come in stoned or they come in drunk  
and there was an incident in my children's high school where a teacher stayed drunk  
uh_huh  
and he  
uh well no  
you know we are as susceptible a society   as anybody else  
and uh  
yeah  
well did you hear on the news where the teacher of the year was up for child molestation  
it was on the news tonight  
yeah  
then i think you know if if it came push came to shove i'd probably be drug tested   you know  
because it does you know  
yeah  
because you know as i say i'm sitting there [fussing] and [fussing]  
and yet i know of you know one teacher who was an alcoholic   in school as well as you know i presume out  
uh_huh  
and you know my children brought it to my attention  
i never   was there to see it  
uh_huh  
and that's not giving a good example to students  
so beverly what do you think about drug testing  
yeah  
we've we got a lot of mistakes here uh in the maryland baltimore area because of uh train conductors   uh on drugs  
i think we've had two terrible accidents here recently  
and also on um just like i bet you within five days a truck where the uh a dump truck where the driver was uh high on marijuana  
i guess he smoked marijuana for lunch and uh drove his truck up the back of two small cars in a tunnel that goes underneath the uh a river that leads into the [chesapeake] bay  
and it would  
that would tied up traffic for a long time  
everybody died  
the fire was terrible  
it was awful  
so yeah  
i think you're right  
i i think i if it's if you're in a field  
but then you know who would test all truck drivers   you know  
right  
yeah  
i think i think looking at athletes being drug tested  
i don't know  
even i think the random drug testing i don't know in my own mind if it has reduced the athletes from taking drugs because they're still being caught  
that make sense  
yeah  
and then uh i think  
yeah  
i i i think in the long run i think it's it would be good  
i think in the short run they think because so many of those tested have gotten away with it   you know the the test hasn't come down hard on anyone  
i don't i don't know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
get rid of him  
right  
yeah  

yeah  
right  
i i think that that that's a terrible you know  
it's really funny though um  
i guess my dad was hit by a a drunk driver who was also high   um when i was probably eighteen my senior year in high school  
and um though he's alive today and everything worked out fine it it it happened about two blocks from the high school  
and a friend came and got me  
and i was there  
and i could smell the dope  
and i could see the beer cans from the guy that hit him  
and nothing ever happened  
and from   from that point on i became so anti drunk driving   now i think people should be allowed to drink i think that's an adult responsibility whatever  
but i really uh  
i'm so anti drunk driving  
and and drugs have uh long lasting effects  
and i guess when i younger i was um probably a little more liberal on the subject  
yeah  
but as i've as soon as that happened  
i guess when i was eighteen years old if you'd have asked me i'd have thought it was fine  
but by the time i was nineteen my opinion had totally changed  
uh_huh  
right  
um traction and all that terrible stuff  
right  
right  
yeah  
i don't think somebody  
yeah  
you don't you don't you don't have the right to interfere in somebody else's life  
i can't even say you know i wouldn't even say ruin somebody's life  
you don't have the right to interfere in somebody's life  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
i think in some professions it's uh essential things like pilots and things that involve the safety of other people particularly  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
they  
that's that is a problem  
and every time before they get into a vehicle   i mean  
uh_huh  
right  
yes  
uh it may make a difference for some of them   because they don't want to lose that lucrative uh   career  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
however here in dallas   uh we had a a player roy tarpley on the mavericks team  
and he had been suspended a couple of times because of drug testing  
and was to the point he was on probation  
he was to the point that if he was caught another time that he would lose his contract  
and they wouldn't have to pay him  
and the mavericks wanted to get rid of him  
but they couldn't afford to replace him and still pay his contract  
and uh just recently he was uh missing from practice  
and whenever he missed like that usually he had some kind of problem  
and   so a mandatory drug test was done   was positive  
so they were able to   get rid of him and not have to pay his contract  
and so in his case he lost his whole career  
he's been in the paper in jail  
and it's just been awful  
and talk about a terrible role model  
um  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
oh that's terrible  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think most of us are  
uh_huh  
yes  
if you know someone  
for example we have uh some friends whose son was driving home from work was hit head on by a drunk driver  
the drunk and his wife in the car were killed  
and uh bobby missed his whole junior year of high school  
he went through surgery after surgery  
and for a long time they didn't even know whether he'd be normal again  
and he  
as far as his athletics he's lost all of that  
he uh has been [tutored]  
and he'll catch up in school and everything  
but he's still not back where he was  
he may never have all those motor skills back  
no  
another thing that we saw here recently one of some of our high school kids were out [goofing] around in a park area that a a train track ran through  
and one boy who had been drinking decided for some stupid reason to try to play with the train  
well he the train missed him  
but uh a big mirror type thing sticking out like a metal thing sticking out hit him in the head  
he was in a coma for   four months  
he's out of the coma now  
and eventually they think he will come back  
but you don't know that  
and  
but he's lost  
he was an outstanding football player  
um i haven't given this a a lot of thought  
i'm uh that that's a whole pleased with the practice that is they  
i uh i don't  
you would favor invasions of privacy on the other hand that's [arguable] but that that uh people who's jobs are critical to public safety should have to meet special standards  
uh i haven't given this matter enough thought  
no uh  
i'm in the washington area  
i work for n i s t  
uh_huh  
and now  
okay  
and how do people feel about it  
well okay  
that's that's a very different issue  
and  
um does the testing cover alcohol as well as illegal drugs  
well  
so they ask you to declare beforehand what prescription drugs you are taking  
okay  
well it i mean it's i guess that in fact they don't test for for they don't routinely test for very many prescription drugs  
but that i but they don't say in advance uh  
so  
the ones that would kind of [constitute] controlled substances or something anyway  
so what they are asking you to tell them is all the prescription drugs you are taking which are controlled substances  
is contact a    
okay  
is contact a   substance  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
go ahead  
do you work for t i  
oh  
oh okay  
oh all right  
well see we have the testing already here  
we've had it for oh about five years  
it used to just be for new employees  
and now   it's for all employees  
they uh randomly select employee numbers  
and uh the day that they select you is when you have to go and and be tested  
so we're familiar with it  
oh we have a lot of um people upset about it at the beginning some not all  
but what was happening at t i is that they found certain parts of the company there was a lot of drug abuse um mainly the areas where they were doing a lot of um manufacturing type things  
and what they ended up doing is uh kind of like doing a little bit of an [undercover] agent to watch what was happening  
and we had people using on the premises and actually selling and dealing you know on the premises  
well yeah  
it was you know combination of of uh both activities and uh and using too  
so they developed this uh drug policy so that uh to eliminate  
there's some parts of the company that we do uh government contracts  
and i think some of those require the drug testing  
but now t i thought well we'll just do it for all employees that um not just because of safety issues but because we want a totally drug free safe environment for all people to work in  
and that we shouldn't have um people on drugs within our you know offices and such  
i haven't personally ever been tested  
but i don't have a problem with it  
no  
but one thing that to to me was um going on stretching it a little too far was that they also check um if you are taking somebody else's prescription drug  
you know it happens a lot of times  
like some member of the family gets the flu or whatever  
and you know   then they give it to everybody else in the family and don't always go back to the you know doctor and get another prescription  
well according to what they do at t i if you take a prescription drug it has to be in your name  
it you know it can't be in your [spouse's] name  
so they will look i mean the testing will look for i guess any kind of drugs  
and you have to tell them what they are taking a prescription for  
right  
yes  
yes  
when you get tested you are supposed to tell them you know everything that that might be there  
and then if they ever um question you or something you may have to show proof that you do have a prescription in your name  
well what they be testing for are the ones that would have like you know [barbiturates] or [codeine] things like that in them  
right  
right  
i guess that's what they wouldn't be looking for [penicillin] and antibiotics and stuff  
they would be looking for the yeah controlled things [barbiturates] amphetamines  
right  
right  
you pretty much you know put down what you remember even if it was just contact or something like that  
but afterwards uh maybe if you had a controlled substance   well  
you you probably put down you know you had [drixoral] or contact if you would remember that you did it  
no  
i'm   just saying you probably put down on the sheet   anything you have taken  
but if they had a controlled substance maybe they would ask you then to show that you had that prescription in your name  
i know i had one contract employee through manpower was not a t i person   but was a contract person  
and they test them too even if you are not a real uh t i  
if you are a contract employee here   they test you too  
and he had taken some kind of um oh you know uh  
just he had some kind of flu or something  
he got a real bad [migraine]  
and he took his mother's  
uh i think it's a real good concept  
uh drug testing procedures would have to be refined  
from what i've seen on the news there's a a pretty good size problem with poor accuracy poor procedure in uh drug testing  
yeah  
uh there have been people who have been turned down for jobs because there was a drug showed up in their in their uh test  
but they didn't know for sure what it was  
but it was a drug  
so they got turned down  
and uh turns out it was a prescription or people getting somebody else's blood test  
same sort of problem that happens   sometimes is these some of these uh like aids tests and such  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i not very long ago worked for wal mart  
and about a year and a half ago they instituted a uh a uh drug testing program uh well drug and alcohol testing program  
it's it's not a random  
through the  
it  
as each employee comes in   part of the hiring procedure is a a blood test uh  
but   i think the big problem though is is they send these off to large labs  
and then they have thousands and thousands of samples that uh going through it in a day and bottles get mixed up things like that  
it's  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
sam's is part of wal mart  
yeah  
oh yeah  
company's that was a great place to work  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they got to had two or three years in with them you can start buying stock  
and you have a have a little taken out of your check each each payday to   put against uh uh stock [portfolio]   uh not [portfolio] just you know against wal mart stock  
but uh you can build a pretty fair amount of stock after a while  
uh you're supposed to get five minutes  
uh do you have any idea uh  
let's see  
you were you were tested for drugs as you got into t as as you got into t i  
yeah  
uh now uh were you asked to wait before starting to work until the drug test came through  
or  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they they it was after i was already working there  
and they weren't testing any of those who were already working  
so  
okay  
all set then  
uh what do you think about it  
uh_huh  
oh i didn't realize that  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
i have heard  
uh i don't remember what they call it sort of like a positive negatives or some some kind of word they use when a uh you get a uh a positive indication of drugs  
but there's not really there weren't really any there  
uh every now and then there's an error  
and people are really upset about that when it comes to their rights and their rights being violated  
yeah  
i i work here at texas instruments  
so uh we we do a let me think do we yeah everyone coming in  
i guess i did three years ago  
everyone coming in uh goes through the drug testing procedure  
and   they talk about it as a you know as as better for the country and better for the working conditions  
so   if they uh they test for drugs  
i i'm i can't even remember if we do random sampling anymore  
i know we did in the military  
but   i don't know if once your in they continue to do it  
but i guess you're always on call for it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

uh_huh  
right  
so your big beef with it is the uh  
is is it's a good idea  
but like you said the drug testing procedures need to be defined a little better  
make sure it's a lot safer because a couple of people are going to be discriminated against [unfairly] or whatever  
yeah  
i   i i tend to agree with you david  
yeah  
my brother uh brother used to work for wal mart  
and then i don't know if he still does or what because i don't know if sam's is actually part of it  
but he you know   is working at sam's now  
okay  
yeah  
then he's been working for the company for a while too  
he uh  
good company uh  
you all uh have some  
he's   telling me about good profit sharing and all that  
so  
it's good news  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what my brother was telling me  
that's good good good deal  
well uh how long were we  
i haven't done this in a couple months  
how long were we supposed to discuss for  
okay  
we got a couple more minutes then i guess  
uh think what else i can say about that uh  
right  
uh everyone coming in gets goes through the drug test  
uh no  
well let me think about that  
yeah  
it was after i i had already been hired uh  
yeah  
you get hired then you come in the first  
i  
seems to me i remember that uh i was hired came in and went through some orientation  
and i thought i  
boy i can't remember  
that would seem strange to already be working here in the first week of the drug test  
maybe it was during the interview  
i came up a couple times for an interview  
so it's hard for me to remember where i was when all that happened  
but uh i guess just like other companies other friends i've been hearing about that have been moving around  
it's it's before  
they have to wait for the drug test to come in before you actually get employment  
so i'm   sure that happened to me too  
what what about oh  
they just instituted it there at wal mart  
so  
right  
what do you think  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that the corporations should uh do all that  
they should uh have drug screening before they hire   an employee  
and uh any time that an employee  
like if they're coming to late work all the time and uh   if they if they're especially if there's they're on the line or any kind of sensitive job where you know if they can if they made a mistake it would cost a lot of money or   or people's lives   then they need to be watched carefully  
so   right  
yeah  
yeah  
but you got to have a a safe work place  
that's all there is to it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think it's it's more frequent now  
it's probably like forty fifty percent  
yeah  
because uh all the jobs that i've applied for have uh mentioned some type of drug screening  
you know   uh i work at sears  
and i just do warehouse work  
uh not  
they hired me in nineteen eighty four  
so   yeah  
but now they they uh they issued a statement   about that about three months ago  
uh not that i know of  
it was more about uh all the people's problems  
like   they've been laying off a lot of people  
and uh and uh they sent out the employee assistance cards for anyone that had any sort of drug problem or work related problem  
family problems you know   they kind of covered everything  
but i know they have a lot of drug problems  
so  
yes  
i do  
because because a lot of them are you know they're [hypocritical]  
they they talk against drugs  
and then they get caught you know  
in [stings] in washington  
whether it's drugs or any other kind of uh  
like the the money [laundering] scams all that was drug related  
so and that cost us the country you know billions of dollars  
so  
well uh this is this is about drug testing right  
well uh i'm i'm certainly under the uh uh the influence of the idea that that the government needs to have less control on what uh what the citizens do  
although i do see this as a uh something that definitely needs to be taken care of  
whether that whether that should be put in the hands of the corporation or the the hands of the hands of the government is a you know a a different question i think as far as i'm concerned  

in in other words i am in favor of drug or or or drug testing  
uh i was drug tested when i came to my job here at t i  
yet   but but at the same time i don't think uh that should be [governed] by by the government uh per se  
i think it should be more by the private institution  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i agree with you  
i you know i would even think that uh uh i could in theory take that a a you know a step further and say anybody in any job you know if the corporation felt like uh  
and this is why i mean uh drugs are the biggest problem i think to face america today  
i mean it's what drives crime  
it's what drives uh uh any sort of of uh uh pain and [discomfort] in the world or in america i think is is somewhat uh uh driven by drugs  
and i think that uh were corporations and uh private industry to take uh take command in this situation that maybe maybe we might have some some control over that  
we you know  
if you can't work then you can't be a little bit harder to take take drugs or whatever  
i don't know  
course that might up crime you know when uh people go in and steal your television and and sell it just because they can't they can't work anymore you know  
definitely  
you you're definitely right  
that uh you can't you can't have it any other way  
uh you know whether whether in in the case that you brought up you know whether uh you know  
if it's a policeman and he's working with uh the public and he has a and has a gun in his [holster] or or even you know if it's a guy at mcdonald's cooking a burger i think they're dangerous in either situation  
uh i  
what what do you think uh  
what percentage of of corporations and uh private industry do you think use uh drug testing  
oh really  
uh_huh  
right  
what kind of work are you in  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and did they give you drug testing  
oh  
okay  
uh_huh  
oh so are they going to uh begin [spontaneous] uh drug testing  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what do you think about uh you know  
something that kind of concerns me is uh you know you and i are tested for for whatever work we happen to do  
do you think there should be drug testing for political officials  
yeah  
i do too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
i would agree with you  
i i can't see i can't see how we can expect the you know uh uh people working in the in in america to uh to put any trust into our political officials if they don't you know uh  
just doesn't make sense to have them to to worry about legislation unless they're doing that themselves  
drug testing in the work place  
um i've been tested a few times just before drug employment  
but that's about it  
i've never had random drug testing  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh they do with alcohol  
they do it with alcohol  
oh i thought it was just like marijuana or cocaine  
huh that's interesting  
what type of field of work are you in  
oh in the oil business  
okay  
and you work in the office around  
uh_huh  
yeah  
see i work in the automotive air bag industry where we make the safety bags   for the cars  
and we work around a lot of explosives  
yeah  
so that's you know  
i'm all for it because the well the type of environment i work in you know they're working with explosives  
and so they could blow up the whole  
well they have safety features with each of the explosives they use  
but still it can be dangerous  
yeah  
now do they fire them or do they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
huh that's  
i think our policy is that  
all right it's probably the same thing  
i'm not really sure what the  
that's right  
but i know they do have counseling and that they do give you a second chance  
but i'm not sure if   if it's if you get caught or if you turn yourself in  
uh_huh  
uh do you think it works very good with that random do you think it limits  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you could time it just right  
i know one employee  
i know when i was working with he had alcohol on his breath  
and i'm not sure if our policy covers that or not  
that'd be just as dangerous  
huh that's true  
uh_huh  
do they give any limits on alcohol  
or is it  
oh  
uh_huh  
pretty good  
pretty good  
so we're talking about drug testing in the work place huh  
yeah  
we have random drug testing at in my business  
but i've never been uh never had to do it  
yeah  
yeah  
they started that about a year ago  
and i think it's mostly for the the field people that you know drive trucks and heavy machinery that kind of stuff  
but uh they they have done some testing around our office mostly after lunch looking for people drinking uh drinking beer and stuff at lunch time  
at least that's  
pardon  
yeah  
yeah  
they they they'll check for alcohol  
no  
once once you start doing that stuff you sort of you're sort of stuck into uh checking for the whole the whole thing  
yeah  
it's a  
i'm in the oil business  
yeah  
yeah  
i work in the office  
so uh it's pretty pretty safe environment  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that sounds like kind of an important job to be uh straight on  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i i agree  
i think that uh you know under certain circumstances especially when you're working in in high risk uh uh industries where you can really hurt other people that that you need to have that kind of stuff  
you know  
if it's  
as long as it's not abused uh you know random you know  
as long as it's random and and the individual's rights are uh are protected i don't have that big a problem with it  
well see this is it  
this is where i start having my problems with my company  
i work for a private company  
and   and the policy is something like see if i can state this correctly now if you turn yourself in as having a drug related problem then you're eligible for company counseling  
but if they catch you if you test positive for a a controlled substance then you get fired  
so it you know it's sort of one of these little catch twenty twos  
yeah  
really  
it's one of those things that you read once  
and then if you if you're not worried about it you just forget about it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
our company's a little tougher on the second chance  
i mean if if they're going to give you the opportunity to turn yourself in then they ought to you know go out of the way i think a little bit more to uh to help you get help get you rehabilitated to you know to get get back at your job  
but uh when you're not when you're a private company the rules don't always apply  
well it's it's hard for me to to evaluate it because everybody i work around is in an office environment  
and you know it's not  
i guess i haven't run into anybody that's that's had a problem that's that's been a problem  
uh so i you know i guess it works uh much like uh well shoot like any lottery  
i mean everybody's got an equal chance to get picked  
so uh i'd rather have that than you know say well this week the a and b are going to be in  
and next week   c and d are going to come in  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
well especially around uh you know equipment machinery and stuff  
you know i've i've gone out and had a had a beer at lunch time but not to excess in any case  
uh i don't remember to tell you the truth  
i don't think they do  
um well they must  
i mean gee whiz  
that just shows you how much i've been paying attention  
because i i really don't know  
i'll have to go into work tomorrow and ask  
well you know you can take some of that that testing a little bit too far  
uh there was a company in houston that  
they did uh an [unannounced] drug sweep of the of their company  
oh it was it was it was an [unannounced] sweep of of  
it was not only drugs  
well  
yeah  
uh i guess i basically agree that uh  
do you think it's okay for a company to reject somebody knowing that they'll take drugs  
i mean suppose they found out some other way  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but have you ever been in a situation where you you were drug tested  
or  
yeah  
i once too  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
i had it during a job interview  
and i just thought it was dumb of the company at a point where they were trying to convince me to to want to work for them   to do this  
and i'm just like well uh i'm not even going to think much about it   if you're going to treat me with this much respect even before   you've gotten to know me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well like you say i mean if it's not a critical kind of job where someone could get hurt then really what people ought to be doing i mean the the employer ought to be judging you on how well you do your work   rather than on these other factors  
and i mean if you are doing drugs and it's causing a problem then they'll notice it for other reasons  
yeah  
well do you think it's should be illegal for an employer to do this  
or  
yeah  
i tend to to view it  
even though i don't think i'd work for a company that did that i sort of want to defend an employer's rights as opposed to an uh in addition to an individual's rights  
but an employer really i think has the right to hire someone on any basis they want to  
and if they say they don't want smokers i sort of feel like an employer should have the right to decide whether they want to allow that  
uh and i don't really  
well uh i myself am not in favor of drug testing in the work place except in in specific uh very specific in this uh very specific examples such as uh transportation workers as in uh air traffic controllers bus drivers and that kind of thing  
um i don't really think that it's uh too many  
i think it's a severe invasion of somebody's privacy to say well we're going to look at your urine and then decide whether you're uh you know worthy of working for us  
i really don't see that that's a very very valid uh thing for a company to say  
and i personally i don't think i would work for somebody if they were going to reject me on the basis of what's inside my body  
well i think i think we i think the problem here is is that a a drug test does not necessarily [imply] that someone is taking drugs or not taking drugs  
there's too many cases where it can you know  
there can be false positive results and that that sort of thing  
i don't think there's any [definitive] you know  
okay this person is taking drugs  
so we don't want him here  
uh like i said some industries though i think it'd be very necessary  
i wouldn't want any air traffic controllers high or anything like that when i'm flying in an airplane  
but uh i i just i find it to be pretty offensive that that it's such a a big deal  
i mean if your employer's not going to trust you  
or you know it  
i just i think it's a whole trust issue  
i just can't see it  
uh yeah  
i have been  
i   i mean i was very offended by by the whole process  
i mean it's very humiliating  
and i mean i'm not speaking in favor of drugs or against drugs  
but i uh i am totally against that sort of a uh  
i mean it's it's a pretty personal thing when somebody says i want to look at your urine before i'm going to talk to you  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
that's that's basically my opinion on it right there is that it's just you know  
i did i i was in the same sort of situation as  
it was a job interview  
and then you had a physical where you were drug tested  
and it's  
i just  
and i know people who have been drug tested and who have not you know been hired by a corporation which uh you know  
i really  
the other side of it is is besides its being an invasion of personal privacy as in my it's my [bodily] fluid  
and i don't really want you to look at it or   or something pretty basic like that  
just to the fact that i don't know that it is a company's business to regulate what it's employees are doing when they're not at work  
i mean during the eight hours during the day when they're supposed to be there i think they have every right to say this is these [behaviors] are acceptable and these are not  
but when it [enters] into what they're doing when they're not at work i find that to be fairly offensive also  
right  
right  
that's exactly right  
and also i just think it it gets a lot  
i'm a big uh supporter of personal freedoms and personal [privacies]  
and i think that it just moves down along a line that that i really would find bad if if most people went down that line into regulating [employees'] lives outside of work you know  
there's already talk of people  
well we're not going to hire you if you smoke  
well you know i i can see how they can say in the work place we you don't want them to smoke  
but when somebody leaves work i don't think that it's the employer's right to regulate their life style at all  
uh i really think it should be except as i've mentioned twice now in the specified industries   or or jobs because there are certain things where it's just vital that a person is clear minded at all times  
and other than that i think i do not think it should be [allowable]  
i think it should be illegal for them to to want to do that  
it should it's kind of the big brother syndrome  
i mean i just  
anything like that just kind of scares me  
right  
right  
well uh does the company you work for test for drugs  
huh  
uh no  
we're not being tested for drugs at all uh  
our policies and procedures manual uh the furthest it goes about drugs is in the kind of the miscellaneous section or   it's reasons for immediate dismissal  
it says use of [narcotics] on company premises  
so that's pretty general  
but uh i work for an environmental management firm  
and i'm an engineer there  
but i do go on a lot of hazardous waste sites  
but i don't operate any machinery  
now people for our company that do operate machinery like drill rigs and things like that   are under a a medical monitoring program  
because they're at a higher risk of exposure  
and blood screening is part of that  
and i i think that drugs  
they do test for drugs in that capacity  
but it's not their exclusive  
it's just part it's just something that turns up in the other parameters that they test for  
but i think it's got a little more relevance since they are around dangerous equipment and things like that and do have to exercise some quick judgment in the field  
what is the nature of your company's business  
um  
oh really  
right  
we that's been an a an issue uh in our company even though we don't have the random or even regular drug screening  
in fact they'll have these little parties  
and people will just get  
i mean i've  
my brother lives where i work  
and i have many a time called him to come get me you know  
and uh uh but you know they don't think twice about serving beer by the [keg]   you know  
but uh i think drug testing  
and i i don't know  
i guess i i think it's got some relevance  
but i think its relevance is pretty limited  
i mean i think you know  
in your case i don't think that you should necessarily be subjected to drug testing  
i think that's an interesting policy your company has about testing immediately after an on the job accident  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
actually uh they just recently started a policy of testing drugs which was kind of interesting  
because when i went to work for them uh they didn't do that  
but uh since then they've they've started a drug testing policy not because of their own uh convictions but because the clients of our company are [requests] that we do that  
how about you  
uh_huh  
um  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's actually uh  
we do oil well services  
so a lot of our clients are oil companies big oil companies  
and they go out to  
we have engineers who uh go out to the oil well to the to the [client's] oil well and and work with a lot of heavy equipment and put tools down the oil well and stuff  
so the clients are very concerned that you know the engineers who go out there are [adhering] to their drug policy because they're on their their you know territory and everything  
but   the thing that's interesting is that i i'm an engineer and a software engineer  
and i work in the software uh house  
and everybody there you know are all software engineers  
they've never you know they never go out to the the oil rigs or anything  
and yet we're getting we're subjected to this policy you know the same one that uh all the engineers have to to  
well a little different actually  
but uh you know we have to go through the same thing  
and it's but it's uh it's a little different i guess than than a lot of drug policies  
in our case it's like when you hire on they'll test you  
and then if you get injured on the job if you like trip and fall or something uh they give you a drug test right away  
other than that they don't have random testing or anything like that  
but a lot of people were really upset with the policy at first  
particularly like uh we have a lot of parties and stuff where they serve alcohol  
and they didn't find any problem with that you know  
but  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's really it's really bizarre  
uh particularly like where we are you know  
i i  
there was a story of a woman last year who who actually did slip on the ice and and like [sprained] her ankle  
and she she was a personnel secretary  
and she had to get tested  
and i don't know  
i'm ambivalent about the whole thing  
i you know i have a lot of mixed feelings about on the one hand it's like if you know  
they're they should be able to make it as a continue of employment in some sense  
and you know it's like you're i mean [employments] are [contractual] by nature anyway  
but uh i had an experience when i was interviewing for a job that where i had to uh uh do a drug test  
and and it's it was kind of a long story  
but it was it was just an incredibly humiliating experience what i went through  
and it [amounted] to uh going in uh before any of these interviews  
i'm not even working for this company  
i'm going in for like interviews  
and they flew me out to chicago  
and and uh before i went into any of the interviews uh they took me to the doctor to give me a physical  
they said it was going to be a physical you know  
and uh actually beforehand they told me they were going to uh do drug screening  
but i had forgotten about that  
and so basically i'd already [peed] off in that morning  
and and when i got in there i didn't i wasn't like able to give a full sample  
and so   they made me sit and wait for forty five minutes drink a whole ton of water   before i went to any of the interviews and go in there again  
and the and the the procedure is utterly humiliating  
you go in there with the doctor  
he makes you take off all your clothes  
and then he [examines] you  
okay  
do you work with a company that uh gives drug testing  
oh they do  
uh_huh  
what uh  
did they do that before you went in or what  
oh they will huh  
oh  
okay  
well i've  
i worked  
i don't work right now because my company i worked for p i e went bankrupt  
but uh they was getting a program set up that for all new hires they was going drug uh give them drug tests  
but uh they didn't hire very many new hires because all the people that usually work there you know just stayed there because it was they had been there for a long long time  
but uh actually i think they should do it  
you know uh i don't think anybody needs anybody that's to be working for them that's on drugs   of any kind you know  
but uh i don't know whether i believe that they should just randomly do it  
i think they should kind of [warn] them like you know well we're going to do that or maybe tell them before they do get hired you know   that this is what is going to happen  
and   then if you don't like it why then you know you'll have to go look for a job someplace else  
well i suppose you are right there too you know  
uh personally i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
well i suppose they fire you and everything right then huh  
or what do they do with you guys if that you guys get  
oh i   oh i see  
yeah  
well i don't either  
i wouldn't even think about it  
i think anybody that does them are dumb you know  
yeah  
really  
you're so stupid god  
and you just watch it on t v and see how it just burns your brain completely up you know  
you don't  
yeah  
really dumb huh  
but uh let's see what else was i going to say here  
yeah  
i think so  
i think they all should test really   you know  
uh it just seems like there is so much more of it going on anymore   that i don't know what's wrong with the people uh  
but i think that the the government should do something about stopping it completely  
about it coming into our country  
you know they just slap somebody's little hand  
and you know well don't do that again  
and   and then you know they'll get out  
and they're right back at it again  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but uh other than that why i don't know  
like i say maybe one of these days i'll get a job because i am looking still for a part time job you know since my company went bankrupt  
and   i'll see what they do you know  
but like i say i i wouldn't care because i i don't i don't even smoke  
so   they can test me all i want  
i wonder what if you take medicine if that would effect it  
yeah  
see now that   that would be really unfair then huh  
you know  
yeah  
find out what you know if you have been taking some kind of medication and you know if that would effect it and everything  
but uh well i guess that's about all we can talk about  
i think our five minutes is about up anyhow  
okay lewis  
and maybe i'll talk to you again  
[alrighty]  
bye bye  
bye  
hi  
sort of  
i'm a i'm a student  
but uh   i'm in the national guard  
and they do a little bit of drug testing  
yeah  
uh they they do it before you go in  
and occasionally they'll have a a random urinalysis  
yeah  
so you can't be smoking marijuana in in the military anymore  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i believe they should too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
definitely  
oh  
uh  
but after you  
you have   to do randomly otherwise people will cheat  
yeah  
they  
i know when i was doing my uh basic training in a i t   there was guys who would fool around  
and then when that urinalysis came around they would be all scared  
so it does work it is effective  
the only problem is you know if you have done drugs but you've stopped and uh you do get caught it is kind of kind of harsh  
yeah  
uh we get counseling  
and uh i think part of our pay is [docked] if we're   first time offenders  
i really don't  
i i haven't  
i don't do any drugs  
so i don't know  
crazy  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
wastes your future  
yeah  
uh what do you think about our uh like uh other government agencies testing  
do you think our government agencies should test  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i know  
yeah  
they aren't  
yeah  
right now it is it's too lucrative for the drug dealers  
so   the risks are worth it for them  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh see that's  

it is a problem  
sometimes some medicines will give off a a false positive  
i've heard of i've heard of that  
yeah  
yeah  
i believe you should have the testing  
but they should be like if you get if you get a positive they should double check you and still give you the benefit of a doubt  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it was nice talking to you rose  
okay  
bye bye  
go ahead  
uh no  
i haven't  
but in my job i'm a nurse and we are allowed to be  
i mean you know this is the rules that they can do this anytime  
uh i don't know of anyone who ever has been picked out and been tested  
they can if they choose to  
right  
have you well have you had any experience with it at all  
uh_huh  
so what do you think about that  
right  
right  
see i know of that too  
and i also know that things like [antihistamines] [sudafeds] things like that can really throw it off  
and you cannot get a job because of it  
and they may not tell you the reason why   uh_huh  
see and so it really is a dangerous thing that way  
because i know of somebody that tested for an airline and didn't get the job  
and they weren't told why  
but a lot of people say the reason why after you take a physical will be because of the drug testing  
or they would tell you  
or this person never use any drugs  
uh you should  
because you should be given another chance or at least be able to justify it or something  
i have real mixed feelings about it  
i don't know  
the accuracy  
i don't know  
i don't know  
but i know there are a lot of things that can influence them  
and i think that a person deserves a second chance with it or something because most things will stay in your system for a long time  
and if you could show that  
i i interviewed for a job recently  
and i was taking [entex]   and my doctor gave me a prescription for it  
and he said this way if it were to make the drug test positive you have proof that your doctor ordered this for you you know  
and it didn't come up that i needed to do it  
but this could happen to anybody  
and if they would just say oh this person's drug test is positive we won't hire them   you know then you could lose out on a job when really you didn't do anything  
so i don't know  
yeah  
i'm not   sure either  
the only way i can see it is that if they really suspect a person of using it then they have the right to go ahead and prove it  
because they say they can spot check  
yeah  
well it sort of is  
and this is it  
this  
i'm not real sure how i feel about it because i can see it from two ways  
you know as a health professional i wouldn't want somebody to take care of me that was using drugs  
you know so as a patient i feel well yeah we probably should be protected  
but on the other hand there's a lot of things i should be protected from that they don't test my patients for too  
so   you know i guess you sort of you have to have trust some place along the way  
you can't go around testing everybody for everything  
so i don't know  
and i i think it could be used to hassle somebody  
if someone was out to get you i think that a company or a boss could use this  
you know they could keep on doing this to you or something i guess  
i can see where it could become a problem  
really  
oh wow but   maybe you shouldn't be held responsible for something you did several years ago  
that's the other thing  
i mean a lot of a lot of people as kids or you know young people get into some things that they get out of later on  
and i don't think they should really have to pay for that forever  
yeah  
i think that's true  
yeah  
yeah  
so that probably wouldn't be too good either  
uh have you every been tested for a new job or anything  
so it's just sort of uh  
they can if they  
oh okay  
uh not really  
but i've always worked on a university level  
but a lot of my friends had to be tested before they got summer jobs and stuff  
uh i don't i don't think they're very accurate  
because i mean i know their lifestyles changed prior to the drug test  
and i know they changed afterwards  
yeah  
i i had a friend  
it didn't cause her any problems with her job  
but it came back that she tested positive for using a [hallucinogen]  
but what it was was she had been she had been uh in the [jungle]  
and it was some [malaria] medication  
and she tested positive for that  
see i always  
i thought they got you got called back if you tested positive for more tests  
how do you know how wrong they are  
are they i mean is there a margin of error  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and i i'm not so sure they are that needed  
i mean    
if you're using it while at a job i can see a problem  
but the occasional person then it's almost like it's almost an infringement of your privacy  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and it it's like it seems like now they have tests  
i guess they can test your hair  
and they can find out if you use drugs   up to several years ago  
so  
i know  
yeah  
there's a lot of things you do as a kid that   you wouldn't do as an adult  
but   you can't say it was wrong at the time  
okay  
well i can see it in certain cases where it might be uh somebody's in a position that uh perhaps a lot of lives are involved like maybe uh pilots that uh you know fly [jets]  
and uh maybe people that have a lot of responsibility over a large mass of people  
i could certainly see it being done  
but in general uh you know  
whether companies want to do this  
and i know that companies do  
like factory workers that have lots of accidents are now being drug tested  
i know a couple of corporations that are doing that  
uh so you know they kind of have gotten into the idea that let's drug test them and let's put them through rehab  
but there's got to be like a limitation  
do we drug test everybody that comes in  
and or do we kind of say well you can be drug tested  
and you look okay because you look this way  
you're you're very conservative  
and and there's just no way that we would think that you would use drugs  
but the guy that doesn't fit the stereotype of uh the conservative or whatever could be drug tested  
and  
uh you know whether legal rights and of that person  
i don't know  
there's certainly a lot of things to really consider uh when you get into drug testing people just at the work place unless of course like i said they have a large responsibility over a mass of people  
uh that's about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
and i think that's what companies are doing uh more and more because there are products that are out there  
uh_huh  
exactly  
sure  
sure  
sure  
exactly  
the only thing is  
exactly  
exactly  
the only thing is uh  
the one issue that i would take stands with is the fact that the drug testing itself can be done on a person that is actually not on drugs and come out positive  
if they have had like uh medications in the past let's say once a month or twice a month or three times a month or maybe that week they take an advil  
and the advil will apparently come out positive as if they smoked marijuana  
uh and there's [poppy] seed type things  
i think that everybody is aware of that  
but uh where's the line where you where you say to somebody i'm going to drug test you tomorrow  
so please do not take these medications  
or where's  
you know how can   how you can do it  
exactly  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
exactly  

and the only thing that i would say on that is it could [blacklist] an employee later on  
let's say uh you've taken medication of some sort even though they usually have you at the time list what medications you've taken  
uh let's say you do come out positive  
and you've taken advil or any of the [ibuprofen] products out there  
or you've had a cold  
and you've been on medication or whatever  
you come out positive  
is it then the chance that the employer will look at you in more of a negative fashion and say well you know this is kind of iffy you know  
are they really on drugs  
or or they on drugs  
you know what i'm saying  
where   there might be in the back of the mind of the employer that this person uh is on drugs  
or make up they may make up their mind that let's get rid of this employee  
you know what i'm   saying  
uh_huh  
exactly  
and it's a  
they can that the  
if it does come out positive the first time they need to go back and find out what medications did that person take  
you know what i mean  
it it's kind of like uh  
i think most people are aware at least now common knowledge is that  
so what is your opinion on on drug testing  
well yeah  
it it it's just not the  
you're talking about company's liability  
if if uh if the company is liable for something that that a employee does while under the influence of of a drug you know then by all means they should have the right to to to to   to minimize their liability  
and there's also the case about just uh uh health health and welfare of the uh employees  
if a company has a healthy work force their   insurance rates are low  
and not only not only low there's all sorts of a of a benefits uh financial benefits associated   with having you know having people file fewer claims being sick  
there there's the whole question that that a that a work force that is known not to be on drugs is going to be more healthy  
i don't think anybody   would argue with that  
right  
right  
well  
the  
right  
the question becomes what do you do about somebody who tests who tests positive  

that's where the real sticking point comes in  
it's not  
i don't think there's any problem with testing people  
it's what do you do with the information  
right  
right  
well yeah  
i think clearly the person who is the line the line manager  
the employee should not be [privy] to the information of drug testing  
that should go to an entirely different uh agency within a corporation  
uh  
uh a lot of companies now are are using uh drug testing [paraphernalia] and drug testing situations to to root out the the either uh elementary or intermediate or advanced uh drug users  
and uh i know the the government is uh you know gives drug tests to all new [entrants] all new [applicants] coming into government  
and and i quite frankly don't see anything wrong with it  
i i'm i guess i'm not a good civil libertarian  
and and i i feel as though uh that uh uh you know that if you you're a drug user you have a hidden agenda that's difficult unless you really go into a deep background  
of course we're we're  
being involved in my organization uh we we have deep background checks  
and   and so uh but but sometimes you know drug use can can escape that  
and uh i have absolutely   no [compunction] about uh using any and all means to to uh uh you know work out figure out who has a drug program or who has a drug problem   and uh and putting that guy into into therapy to whatever it is to to you know break this uh activity  
of course if he's fallen in love with drugs  
and there isn't anything  
but getting stoned or high is is the only thing in life that seems to be meaningful then maybe there is no hope  
what's your uh feeling  
uh_huh  
well i think uh the the laws on uh uh uh the first [morphine] laws were were like ninety or nineteen ten or nineteen five something like that  
yeah  
well the thing of it is the the   that that is uh uh in in many respects uh uh you know just just i think an over [simplification]  
i i think there there's so much criminal activity uh that people go into to to support drug habits  
yeah  
you know they they support drug habits with uh with uh you know with things like uh you know burglary or or [prostitution] or stuff like that  
yeah  
i i i must admit that  
yeah  
yeah  
i i must admit that the production costs of of these drugs are are [zippo] compared to the street market costs and and the costs to society  
yeah  
but i i i i think that that the that you know the being in law enforcement you know they i i probably have a kind of a [draconian] [philistine] attitude toward it  
and but but the uh uh i i really feel as though the [interdiction] effort is is  
as soon as you you get rid of one [goon] that's that's that's involved in drugs and  
yeah  
and then another another one will jump up  
but we we see  
yeah  
as soon as we wind up uh uh you know for  
well if we can just destroy the market by destroying the demand  
but but people   want to get get stoned  
and i i don't see that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh well i guess i i guess i'm probably a little more to toward the other direction  
uh well i guess mainly because uh it's i well  
like there's two sides to it i guess  
uh one is that uh if you're coming to work under the influence of any sort of drug alcohol whatever or you know even if it's smoking [inhibits] you know your ability to function then i i think that that you know i don't have any problem at all with testing that individual you know on the spot  
uh but i guess i feel more like whatever you're doing in your own private life is your own private business  
uh and i guess part of the reason there is because of the fact that uh things like drug laws seem to come and go  
you know we had prohibition for awhile  
and then we didn't have prohibition  
uh you know we've had i guess laws against uh you know various other forms of drugs for the last what sixty or seventy years i guess  
maybe a little longer  
yeah  
so eighty years or so  
yeah  
uh so i  
you know it's it's hard to i guess for me to justify what seems like you know basically a [breach] of the first you know freedom from uh search and [seizure] you know uh on something that may or may not stand as a law you know fifty years from now or even twenty or ten  
who knows  
i mean prohibition certainly didn't last  
well but you got to look at prohibition though  
you had the same problems there right  
oh yeah  
sure  
well it goes back to that again  
if you look at prohibition i mean because it's illegal it costs more  
if it was legal  
i mean face it you can buy pharmaceutical grade cocaine for what ten or twenty dollars an ounce  
and clearly if you're into coke and all you want to do is you know [snort] your brains out all day long if it was legal you could do it real cheap  
and you know you'd be a menace to nobody but yourself as long as you stayed at home and did it  
but yeah  
get uh  
oh yeah  
well that's why there's you know people dealing it because there's money in it you know  
there's ridiculous amounts of money  
oh yeah  
[interdiction's] hopeless  
i mean  
there's no way you're ever going to win that  
the tighter you squeeze the more the price goes up the more incentive there is  
i mean that's a losing fight  
yeah  
yeah  
well yeah  
it goes back to you know what right what can society impose on people  
i mean can you force somebody to be a good productive citizen  
i don't think you can  
i mean you know i'm you know was raised with being a very strong bible work ethic  
so you know i'm one of these you know ten twelve fifteen twenty hour a day type people  
so you know yeah  
i can really relate to  
yeah  
everybody ought to do their own share  
you know i don't have any you know love lost for people who are on the public [dole] just because they're too lazy to get a job or that kind of stuff  
but you know  
been on the line for awhile  
i almost forgot what the topic was  
uh but i know what it is  
uh let me see  
i i i i i'm kind of  
i don't  
you know i'm i'm kind of in the middle  
i i think it's a great idea  
but when it comes to me it's like almost an [insult] you know  
so it's  
i i've come from the teaching field  
so so it's just like i don't know i i guess i guess i'd have to go with uh  
i i i'd be for it   you know  
but uh you know i i i don't know it's just kind of a kind of a delicate subject i guess  
but i i i would i would probably go for for going ahead and doing it you know if it's got to be done for everyone  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you kind of goes into your privacy  
and   you know but i guess if they  
you know you know there's uh  
i guess there's some companies that aren't that are doing it  
and it it seems to be working out  
so  
yeah  
right  
see that's hard  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
then i kind of hear it goes into like uh  
this is just something i've heard that it kind of goes into like uh just your off the counter medication that you could be taking for a cold that it kind of affects that too  
oh i didn't know that  
um  
yeah  
see things like that  
so  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
see that's  
yeah  
that's where i kind of get into  
cause it kind of gets into your personal life you know  
and   what's kind of next  
the what  
huh  
oh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
right  
so do you think they'll kind of push into the teaching field eventually  
i kind of think they will  
yeah  
yeah  
we haven't either  
yeah  
but i i i just kind of think it's heading that way though you know it's just because it's just hitting to close to home with the kids and stuff  
and i just   i just kind of think it's going to eventually head that way  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
okay  
uh based  
oh okay  
good  
uh_huh  
right  
so do i  
uh_huh  
right  
i think if it's got to be done for one person in the company it should be random testing it should be for everybody  
you know when they answer the company i think it'll make it a lot easier  
and they'd run into less problems   because uh  
i don't know i come from the teaching field too  
and it sort of uh  
it's a pro and a con  
i don't know where to stand on it  
i'm more or less if they told me i had to well then fine  
but   if you know if they made me then i'd probably  
if i had my druthers i'd probably say well no  
you know just this  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it's it's what they're basically trying to do i don't know up here in massachusetts anyhow what they're basically trying to do is uh-oh gosh uh any people who had tested positively getting them into a drug program   or rehab program  
and uh anybody who uh gee is you know doesn't accept the rehab program then they're more or less getting laid off  
i i think that's really hard to because you know you never know i don't know it  
that's a  
it's really weird issue  
i'm sort of   on the fence about it  
but i  
you know that that's what's they're coming across as is some of the companies anyhow  
oh we can get you into a drug program  
but then you wear that stigma   you know  
where uh like a lot of people are saying well i only smoked a joint last night i don't have any problems you know   or something like that  
yeah  
right  
anything with a  
you know if you drink a lot of [caffeine] or  
yeah  
somebody was saying telling me if you drink it in   you know an awful lot of [caffeine] that that can show up as a positive test  
i know i'm an [epileptic]  
so i'd probably test positive and   and then i'd have a heck of a time explaining what drug is in my system you know  
and a lot of times those are the things i don't like to [disclose] to an employer because then they don't want to have anything to do with you  
you know it's very personal  
i wouldn't want to have it [disclosed] because   then i'd always wonder if they fired me you know why did you fire me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it it hits me as the orwell thing big brother is watching  
orwell  
and you know his book [brig] big brother is watching  
you know you're being controlled   that type of deal  
and i  
i don't really you know i don't know seems awful strange  
i'd hate to have to  
if i had my choice between a company that did testing and a company who didn't   i'd probably take the company who didn't   because i feel there'd be more trust in the employee  
but i can understand why they need it with all the you know train accidents and everything else  
i think they will too because uh you know it's just going to follow  
i don't know i we haven't had any of it in our school system  
so uh you know   hopefully we won't  
right  
well and eventually it's going to be not only the  
you know the kids are   going to be under [scrutiny] it's going to be the teachers  
and if they can test the teachers that gives them the full right to test the kids  
and then they you know caught everybody  
so how do you feel about it  
yeah  
i i myself almost uh am in favor of it  
uh i work at honeywell  
and i went through a a pretty i don't know i went through a standard drug testing thing before i i was brought on  
i think that's pretty standard  
at least at honeywell it is  
uh i think it's important to insure the quality and and uh i don't know almost the goodness of character you know   that kind of thing  
where do you work  
oh okay  
oh okay  
huh  
oh great  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and that that definitely happens you know  
i mean those the drug tests sure they're accurate  
but there's always that margin of error  
and that's that's something to be aware of  
another thing is a lot of times you know they aren't that accurate  
they aren't that sensitive  
like if you're on a prescription drug of some kind you know what are they going to do about that  
you know i was on a couple of different prescription drugs when i was tested for honeywell  
and uh uh you know i know they didn't catch that or else they would have said something  
uh i'm sure they screen for just a particular few types  
although the literature they give with you says yeah we do this  
and then they list about five thousand drugs they try to test for  
uh i don't know  
what what program are you in over at carnegie mellon  
oh okay  
great  
uh yeah  
i'm a graduate student at u c f in florida university of central florida  
and this is actually a an internship up here  
but uh they uh even for [interns] they they do the whole random drug or the whole drug testing thing  
so  
right  
uh they essentially  
no  
i sure don't uh  
they essentially uh they essentially uh made me the offer and then and then uh did the drug testing thing after that  
so uh it was one of those things where you go through the the general battery of all their tests  
and and then they essentially give you the offer  
and then at that point they'll they'll ask you to go to a drug testing and things like that  
so uh there's some noise on this end  
i'm actually in a mall calling  
so  
you probably wondered huh  
but  
yes  
that's a good question  
i believe from what i remember of the literature they gave uh if you fail i believe they give you one more chance  
they probably give you a chance to explain yourself   and then maybe give you another chance to go through it  
but uh you know once again those things are not that accurate  
so there's undoubtedly a proportion of people who do fail you know  
but uh  
are you working right now anywhere  
or  
okay  
oh okay  
great  
yeah  
that was the first time i'd ever gotten any kind of drug screening you know was was going to honeywell  
a friend of mine is also a doctoral student down there  
and he's doing an internship with i b m  
and uh they basically uh did the same exact thing  
uh we both got our [internships] at the same time  
and we both had to go through drug testing at the same time  
so one of those things where we went through a kind of an identical process  
but uh  
no  
no  
that's   one thing they don't do is is drug testing while you're on the job  
uh i think i think the [unwritten] rule is yeah expect it  
but they don't do it  
you know so that's good i guess  
i don't know  
i mean i uh i have gone to a couple of parties since since that time  
and while i don't do any drugs myself i've seen some people who work there uh you know smoking a joint or whatever  
and uh you know that's the kind of thing that would definitely come up you know  
but no  
they don't they don't really do that  
so  
yeah  
uh i i don't see any problem with with testing for random drugs  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh well i'm a graduate student right now at carnegie mellon  
and i i just came from saint paul   uh interviewing with three m  
and uh they have a policy for uh testing  
if you if they make you an offer then they'll test you right before you start  
and i guess the only drawback i can see to to drug testing is in in case you are on some sort of medication that might give some uh sort of false positive result   then there could   be some sort of problem  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh electrical engineering  
oh wow  
they test you uh before they before you start or before you even   interview  
or  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
what happens if you were to fail  
then do they give you like one one more chance or two more chances  
uh_huh  
uh no  
i'm just about to finish my master's in may and uh   just interviewing with companies right now  
uh_huh  
oh  
did do they test you at right now at work too  
okay  
oh  
uh_huh  
wow  
is it formal policy that they said they might test  
well uh yeah  
i i'm employed by a company that does do uh random drug testing  
and i've got some very definite uh opinions about it uh you know which haven't changed all that much from my first reactions from from when they when they announced it but uh developed a little more i guess but haven't changed that much  
what about you  
are you uh involved at all  
yes  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it uh that's that's mine  
it it you know  
i i go back  
it to me no matter how much the our company claims it's not a constitutional issue that because this is uh between a company and an employee it is not it is not a government  
it's not  
the constitution doesn't apply  
but i it it seems to me that it still should  
i i our company's doing it because they're a uh government contractor  
uh and so it's it's required for certain some form some form of drug program is required to get the government contracts  
and i'd i'd   yes  
okay  
and our company has taken that and gone all the way  
say  
okay uh  
first off we don't we don't have enough courage to uh pick out the people that that have some sort of indication of possible drug usage uh because that would offend them uh if they if they weren't  
so we'll just accuse everybody of using drugs and   make it all even  
uh and   and uh  
then uh  
but and they  
so it's a a complete random testing  
well it's random in the sense that you don't know when  
it is not random in the sense that they have said that within three years everyone in the company will be tested  
uh and uh you know i i sit at a terminal and and write software all day  
it it uh certainly has no life threatening uh capabilities   uh you know in in my job  
and and uh yes  
i i agree that there are there are uh jobs that are definitely life threatening  
and and and there needs to be a line drawn somewhere at reasonable and proper  
you know  
well  
yeah  
i that that i that i will give credit to to our our company for in that that i think there's there's a couple of levels of tests in terms of of uh of drugs  
and essentially the first thing is is on the order of paper in the urine and uh or some you know  
it's not quite that simple  
but it's fairly simple  
[coarse] kind of test  
and then there's a a much more uh uh refined test uh uh [spectrography] or whatever it's called the   [chemotography]   uh to determine exactly what the what the things are  
and uh  
no  
i i've been with this company for uh for sixteen years now  
and uh  
no  
and it and it and it has it has you know  
they did that three or four years before they did it with everybody  
and i uh at that time i could justify it in terms of someone new coming in you don't you don't know  
but on the other hand uh someone new coming in that knows they're going to have a test  
okay  
well uh i'll let you start i guess  
uh no  
i mean i'm not  
my employer does not do that uh although uh i had an ex employer that  
uh the previous job i used to have uh they  
after i guess a few years after i had started with them they made it a condition of employment that you pass a drug test  
uh i i don't know  
my feeling is that certain jobs that when there's immediate threat to life and limb uh if should somebody be under the influence of drugs i i'd be willing to support that  
for example uh uh well uh uh train engineers  
because it you know uh like there was an incident several years ago where an [amtrak] engineer you know  
he [crashed] and killed some people because he was uh smoking some marijuana  
and i guess air traffic controllers i wouldn't want them to be on drugs and airplane pilots  
but where it's not necessary uh in that regard where it's not an immediate threat to life and limb or property   uh i i'd i would seriously question it  
uh so  
so it's the government that's [mandating] it to a certain extent  
yeah  
well  
huh  
right  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
i mean it's well there's also the issue of uh  
out here i remember hearing a year or so ago that uh a lot of  
there was a high error rate in the analysis of drug results  
or i shouldn't say high  
i mean several percent  
kind of a [coarse] kind of test  
is that done  
right  
now let me ask you this  
uh at the time you hired on with this company uh was that prior to any  
okay  
so that   this is obviously not a condition of employment that you subject yourself to this  
um i have mixed feelings about it
um i don't particularly care for people who take drugs and uh it's a possibility of having accidents in the workplace but uh i also feel like it's an invasion of privacy
right
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
yeah
i have a lot of problems with it
um i have been tested also several times
and uh in fact it has always come up negative i mean but that's no problem with it coming up negative but uh i take prescription drugs and i'm always afraid that those were going to come up and show something on any of the tests
yeah
right
right
right
yeah
but i agree with you though they are trying to they are saying that you are guilty until proven innocent
and i don't really appreciate that at all
uh
uh_huh
right
no
no
because this can follow you uh at other places too
i was reading this morning in the newspaper where they have companies or organizations out now who will go and do background [searches] on employees before they ever hire them
and if you get one of those false negative [reportings] and you're fired from your job
that's going to [carryover] into other jobs um no matter uh if it's truth or not
so yeah
it can stick with you a long time
right
uh_huh
well uh cause you work for t i also right
yeah
because uh i think what they say that they'll take your name out of the [hopper] so that whatever is left in the [hopper] you know it's it's that's when you'd be tested
and then when you were tested
you would be taken out of there so that's that's how they said they would do it over a five year period
uh_huh
hm
well it's only been what a year two years
huh_uh
yeah
it hasn't been
i know i was called up right away
it didn't i was called it
let's see we started testing in january
and i was called up right away in january
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
right
you're right
it wasn't a very pleasant experience
because i felt like there was a camera watching
what did she say
yeah
on a continuing basis too
you know that was that was a really interesting because it was a great big room the bathroom was it was a great big room and uh and i remember the [vents] you know just right over the top of the toilet and i just knew i was being [photographed] you know i'm glad i don't have to go through that experience again
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
well uh i guess growing up in the sixties
i don't know that particular era and generation
i think about it though
i have some friends who are occasional uh marijuana smokers
and you know it's just a [hangover] from uh from that particular generation
and you know
but yeah
they're just adamant that they're not going to be tested
and they're going to fight it uh and try and see what they can do that
it's an invasion of privacy
but i don't particularly care to you know care to get into drugs or anything else
so it's not a problem for me
but i i can kind of understand from the other point of view
right
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
i could really see that
uh so they'll have to find other means of relaxing and but the one thing too that that i have a problem with is that well if marijuana and cocaine and the other so called uh illegal drugs you know what about alcohol
uh_huh
uh_huh
i think so
yeah
yeah
but you know alcohol destroys so many families now
so that's that's what i thought was interesting that there are still drugs out there and there are those socially acceptable drugs
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
because you would be strongly into denial it's just like well we know you take it
we've got the positive test results
and you are going i don't i don't
right
right
right
i think there's some flaws in it
i think their main objective is is good
you know to make sure they have a drug free workplace but i do think that are a lot of flaws in there
and i understand the government will not use that particular drug testing agency that t i is using yeah
because it's not as reliable as the government wants them to be
no
well i heard just the opposite
so i don't know it could just be rumors that are just spread around
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i find that hard to believe too
is our five minutes up
okay
well it was nice talking to you
good
yes
yes
we do right here at the at the very building they have a [nurse's] office
i haven't
my name hasn't come up yet
how about you
right
right
yes
that's the the major issue
i guess
i have a a similar opinion
at first i wasn't sure
but then i thought it was a good thing for the company as well
uh uh we had couple of people in our group who one who wrote a huge letter to the editors saying that it's a violation of my rights and this and that and the tests aren't accurate
and but i think they've got that testing down to a real science where you know they don't you know i'm i'm sure you saw the video on how they do the testing
and it's almost impossible i think to uh to make a mistake
right
right
who were involved
right
and that that's a lot of money
and
oh oh taking drug testing
oh sure
i think that's that's i feel that you know for certain cases that i that i am willing up to give up my rights to secure the rights of others i guess is what i'm saying
uh when the public whole is at stake then i'm willing to you know personally i can't speak for others
but for myself
i'm willing to say okay you know uh if i see
this is a right to if to privacy
i'm willing to give up that right
because i can see that
it's uh public good is at stake and the company good is at stake and you know if they can get this thing under control you know it it's going to save us all money as far as benefits and everything else
you know insurance and and everything else in this country
right
right
you don't work in an area where there's chemicals or machinery or or things like that
and um they don't have any of that up here
but you know um i guess it's just the productivity and the the number of uh uh sick days
i guess uh that they that they [accrue] right
well well i i think they would you know someone on drugs probably misses more work
i guess that's why this smoking thing came out too
right
and they and that's why why i guess the car insurance has no non smoker rates or whatever as well
yeah
oh yeah
uh non at least down here in texas they have non non smoker they call them discounts they give you if you're a non smoker
i i guess there is some kind of studies that show that if you're smoking you're not you're not as you know when you're [lighting] up or something you know your hands both hands aren't on the wheel or whatever
yeah
i guess that takes effect in uh when
june july
yeah
right
there was a lot of uh controversy about that too
i'm not i'm not a smoker myself
i do
yeah
i'd probably get upset
yeah
yeah
right
right
right
right
right
i i i assume that they they i guess they're saying with the cigarettes though that they've been able to show that it's the number one leading cause of preventable preventable death in this country was a half a million people a year or so dying with smoke relating smoking related
right
right
right
well right
well that's all
well that's all what i always felt if it if those studies were true about smokers having higher medical costs
and we do have one smoker in our area
who
and he he seems to miss a lot of work
but um
um forty
eight maybe
forty five forty eight
yeah
but then there is people you talk to
and say i've never been sick a day in my life
so i guess in i guess you know the studies show as an average not specific cases
and uh i thought well with you know if that's really true
then then i guess i agreed with the extra premium
if it i mean if they can come along and prove that french fries were the same deal
then they have a right to charge for that too
i guess
that it's a major cause of uh early
no
well it depends
if they're cooked in
yeah
right
right
right
it's the honor system isn't it
it's the honor system
i know it will be an interesting experiment to see how
right
right
well well i think the same way with alcohol too
personally it you know that would probably be the next the next thing
i mean but you know there's a difference
because uh they say you know i guess they say tobacco is addictive i guess they say alcohol is addictive as well
oh yeah
there is
oh there is
right
right
right
well it's part of the business world too when you make deals you know a lot of times it's a
three [martini] lunch or whatever they say
right
yeah
yeah
makes me feel better
right
[nicotine] addiction yeah
yeah
my in laws are both smokers and uh they've tried to quit numerous times
and i think the longest they've made it is about three months
and then they go to a a friend's house or something
and there
they're all smoking
and and they just break
yeah
they just can't stand it you know all of a sudden they get it's overwhelming and then they break down
and then they say i'm a failure
and then they just give up you know
were known yeah
yeah
so well i think we've probably talked long enough
well i can tell you're from you've got that new england accent
does that mean you're you're you're in uh uh
new massachusetts
okay
what is your feeling on drug testing
not even
yeah
not even on the way home while on the job
well i personally think that it should be done also uh my feelings are the same as yours from that standpoint i spent thirty four years in education
as a teacher and administrator right
and uh so i saw drugs from um the early very early fifties
absolutely coming into the uh the community more
and more
and the uh children being introduced to it and giving it you know to get them started on drugs
they give them for nothing
and uh you know and then i see um um the uh the problem with testing uh now they test athletes they test horses uh they test uh
for steroids
right
and
yes
yes
yes
well now just stop and think of of uh um nasa for example
all the people who work for nasa are uh of course here in dayton
we have uh [wright] [paterson] air force uh base right here
or where there's so much research going on if these people uh are on drugs
uh it doesn't
the test results uh the results which they are striving for could differently be in error or [misconstrued] or [misread] or any number
of things which could mean
peoples lives
yes
uh_huh
that's right
that's right
it can and it does it most most
differently does
no
we we do not have
uh we um no
i spent the first eighteen years on in between two schools on the west side of dayton which was primarily black
and the last fourteen years i spent um doing nothing but [resolving] problems with schools that were assigned to me that couldn't be resolved on a local level
which could be a complaint on a principal or teacher or a riot a bus action [stabbing] taking parents to court kids to court and what have you
and i was on the east end of dayton which is primarily appalachian and uh i could by see a tremendous difference between it
but we would see uh children um taking uh a product called [toil] which is a [toluene] which is used to clean automobiles motors and what have you
and they would put this in they have they'd steal a whole gallon of it
and we finally found the chemical company from where they were stealing it [tapping] through the bottom of a a [semitrailer] because it's so volatile the uh companies could not keep it inside a a uh building
and they would tap it from underneath drain off a gallon put a gallon in an abandoned house and the kids would go to the abandoned house wet a cloth with it
put the cloth in a plastic bag
and then [inhale] the fumes
and they they they do this
like on lunchtime they come back to school and they'd have red marks all around the nose and mouth
and we knew immediately what they had been doing
and then would have to try to take appropriate action
but uh you know there are a lot of things we think in terms of drugs we think of crack we think of heroin we think of marijuana we forgot that there are other types of of uh [habituating] drugs that are used
that are just as dangerous as as the others
so uh it's i you know it's it's terrible um
of
i think so
uh i i see
nothing wrong with that
i think that that it should be uh better accepted than um uh forced testing of everyone
uh it uh perhaps people would accept it better
and then they know perhaps of a of future years down the road uh
that uh uh mandatory testing if everyone could uh would come about just as small [pox] [vaccinations] were for years
and some of the other types of [vaccinations] for [syphilis] and [gonorrhea] what have you
yes
absolutely
and i think it should start right with our legislatures yeah
and you know
yes
absolutely
yes
that's right
but but we we do uh legislate uh things now like uh children in the seats in car safety seats
seat belts
we can legislate them
we can legislate say children cannot get into school without having certain [immunizations] to protect them
you would think that we would you know taken another step further than the we'd have uh some other kind of protection for them uh uh in for the staff the people you know
and i understand they they fear as i'm sure your wife will tell you of age
oh absolutely
it helps
absolutely
right
right
well that that's very true
and it is an [immense] problem
and i think that that perhaps they uh money is spent in the wrong spots uh i i uh am very much in favor of the types programs we're having in our schools here now with uh teaching children we have a program called uh dare um
i wish i could remember what all it stood for
but it was against uh ways to uh say no to alcohol and drugs
and the police departments in all the communities in and around the dayton area have teams which go into the schools in the first second and third grades
and they their talking with the children on that level
and that's to me the level where you need to have it you can't wait until their already in high school because they've already tried it long before that
and uh but you [implant] the idea that this is not what they need to be doing for themselves
and here's how to
um she asked if i i guess they went ahead and told you we're supposed to be talking about uh drug testing
and what do we think about the policy of most companies and government agencies and of course that's something we're familiar with
you want to go ahead
or
um personally it was something that uh i mean i know it presents an emotional issue morale issue people feel like maybe my rights are being violated
but i work in human resources so i work with a lot of folks that um are in accidents or where safety considerations are concerned
and i really feel like that t i decision to go with drug testing was good
you know because i i feel like that you know all all it takes is one person coming to work under the influence of some [narcotic] um truly into a lot more of our workers are you
well now the thing you know
course they've always said separately that um you know we have we have a policy on alcohol course if anybody's under the uh influence or if you have reasonable suspicion then that would result in [corrective] action for them also
and that of course has been in place for years
but it's not specifically tested for that
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
how long does alcohol stay in the system
i mean like if somebody went out and had some drinks the night before is that going to be there the next day
okay
uh_huh
yeah
they do
we had
i didn't get a lot no not like i expected um we had you know one or two that were extremely outspoken you know felt like it really violated their rights and and um and it was not the people that i would have expected um it's one of them stands out in my mind as an extremely uh just a super person in management you know and he's he's very family oriented his family's very close he he also [opposes] in the schools like for his kids because he says you know we are a good christian family we do not do
this type of thing
it definitely [violates] our rights and he was very outspoken but for the most part
people were like well i don't like it uh it's not something i prefer to do
but i understand the reasoning and i think part of the attitude is that i think t i went to really great lengths in communicating and tried to prepare them and and tell them why
and you know they didn't just announce it without really any [forethought] and uh i i think they don't go far enough uh kind of on a different vein and that is that i think every time we have any type of industrial accident at t i
i think somebody ought to be tested immediately and you know maybe that's just me personally
but i i feel like
you know i feel like if something happens
uh that causes an accident you ought to test the parties involved immediately just just if nothing else to rule it out
um
yeah
yes
uh_huh
i guess what makes me think of that you know you hear them doing that like it's a
or like [amtrak] you know if if they have a [derailment] or or transportation industry
it seems like if there's accidents train accidents things like that they test
and i think well why not because we do have some large industrial accidents sometimes uh you know if you have a large acid spill you know
well gee maybe you better check this person who's handling all these acids you know i work with a [wafer] fab
so we do a lot with chemicals and acids and uh things like that
but i i do feel like companies are justified
and i do feel like i mean i i guess i hate as an individual that anything like this has ever become necessary in our you know in our nation
but but i feel like that
it's a good thing to do
that's true
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
now that started in january of last year
is that right
well i've been lucky
i've been called twice
well i
no
i had to test once um when they did the key personnel they test all human resource folks
and so i i i was once there
and then in the general random sampling last year i was i contacted yeah
and that you know i have that same uneasy feeling that other folks have you know i know i i mean i don't drink
i don't smoke
i don't do nothing
you know
but you still walk in there and go gee
what if something i ate what if something i've done what if something i've eaten shows up
uh_huh
yeah
well now if the lab is making on error on the sample then when they retest the error should not be there uh
yeah
but the error is on the part of the lab not on the sample in other words if somebody makes a mistake
in what they're reading
then they're not going to get the same reading the second time if they do
then you have you always have the recourse um you know before we do anything
we sit down and talk with the person about is there any reason why this should have shown up and a lot of times you know uh they'll go oh yeah
i was on a prescription for this and they can go get it and bring it in
you know in which case they're fine
obviously those are recorded as negatives if you're under you know legal qualified medical care um
if if we're talking marijuana
if it's in the system uh then yeah you know that would be grounds for uh if it's their second positive it would be grounds for termination if it's their first positive then they're setup with e a p counseling
we had a couple
no
no
in fact see t i actually sends uh test samples from time to time uh
just to check the validity of the lab yeah
and uh
so that's kind of an ongoing test process for the we do for [compucam] and you know they don't know which ones are test samples yeah
i don't think so
i think the whole company uses [compucam] which is over there on the east coast somewhere
and ours actually are mailed there uh they're the i think the largest and they do a lot of the government contractors they have an excellent excellent rate um
and just
okay
jay i was thinking about um this topic
and i was remembering that guy that does an advertisement on the radio about drug testing and marijuana whether or not marijuana causes any trouble or not
and he was saying how the train had wrecked because the guy had been under the influence
and he said whether you think you know you might think that it doesn't effect anybody
but it does
so i think it's a good idea is what i'm trying to say
yeah
i can see now when you've been there a while they were talking about random testing
it seems like if there's no reason to suspect you that i might be offended if they asked me to come in and be tested
you know what i mean
and how often
are they doing it
uh_huh
you mean in a year's time or what
uh_huh
because they'd be suspect or what
uh_huh
well how do you feel about that
what if they did it on their own time
and it still you know it stays in your body for such a long time
oh that real good
that's real good
drug rehab
and they'll send you to it
so if they did have a problem they can get over it
i agree with that
uh_huh
hm
did you see that special about all these people that work on the road [crews] are putting these bridges up and so many of them had tested positive for drugs
and they haven't been putting these bridges together correctly
and like
yeah
and then uh on the lines for putting your automobiles together same thing
they're under the influence
and they're not doing the job right now
that's
scary isn't it
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i've got an eleven year old son and an eight year old daughter
and my son says i don't understand this drug stuff
why don't people understand all you have to do is say no
you know
and he doesn't realize the pressure that he's going to be under later when his friends start doing this
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i teach
and last year a student that i'd had the year before
so he would have been in third grade
came to school with ice
i don't i don't know what it is
it's supposed to be real inexpensive
i know that
and anyway
he's he's like a special ed child
you know
and i could see he was probably selling it for these other people
and we were doing these posters for drug anti drug campaign and all these little first graders were always drawing these pictures of ice cream truck and the teacher started talking to them
and they said that they were selling drugs out of ice cream trucks now
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you think we should do this in every profession
uh_huh
uh_huh
i don't know some jobs
it seems like it would just maybe be a waste of money because who cares you know
i mean like i don't know what one would be an example
like should i say postal service or not
are they going to screw up on mail
do i think they should
well see i don't really see the need of it you know how many elementary school teachers do you think are going to be on drugs
you might feel like you need it
i don't know
it would cost so much money
and i think we could use that money in the schools you know to buy paper and
well now that's true
and in teaching you don't get rid of a teacher very easy you know
all right
wasn't the mayor of new york arrested for cocaine abuse or was that somebody else
d c
i couldn't figure out if well [koch] is new york isn't he
okay
yeah
berry yeah
oh i am too
yeah
so we have nothing to disagree about
they should test everybody
right
right
and most of your work places can be dangerous if somebody is using drugs especially school
i don't think there should be any kind of limits set on any school officials being tested
but you know that commercial with the you know they show a woman doing cocaine or something
and then you think it doesn't affect you
and then you see her she's driving the school bus
huh_uh
i know it
well and like at t i
do you work at t i
okay
well at t i
you're messing with all those chemicals and stuff
and if you mix the wrong chemical whatever it can put out toxic fumes
um well i worked there for a while manpower employee
and i was tested
you do
where are you working at then
oh okay
huh_uh
huh_uh
well i quit when i found out i was pregnant
i was just really scared of messing with the chemicals
and uh t i is strict on their chemicals
but they don't really i don't know
i just didn't feel safe
messing around it
oh yeah
yeah
manpower did it
so
what is that
what is that
oh the film
i'm sorry
huh_uh
can they spot test you
okay
huh_uh
yeah
they'll do it anytime
i'm not sure what limits they set on it
but i know that you had like eight hours to go in and do it
between the time you were told
and the time you had to be tested
huh_uh
right
[acquitted] that's political
well in that uh book that kitty whatever wrote saying president reagan can you see the president being tested
no
he wouldn't be tested which i don't know how true
that is
but i thought that was kind of
yeah
well
but
well even office workers i mean you could play with computers and lose what all kinds of information
if you're just not careful
i'm not i'm not even uh all that great with computers
but i know just one mistake you can lose the whole record
i can't even remember the word program
yeah
when i first started looking for work there wasn't any drug testing
and i'm twenty six now
and it seems like they've always every every job you go for you have to be tested
so i think that's good
see i've never used drugs personally
so
and i don't really want to be under the influence of somebody that is especially i could see a supervisor going nuts
because well they do go freak out over anything you know
huh_uh
right
he did i didn't know that
right
well most of the kids growing up in entertainment business do have troubles because they're in on the fast lane or whatever
yeah
yeah
but even if you don't have the money people that really want drugs will finds the money some how
while i was in college i did a paper on that just how many people mostly criminals have got drug problems
it's one of the major reasons they're out to break into peoples houses or whatever
oh yeah
but that's always been going on
well from watching t v the women the women will put it in their [bras] or in their mouth and kiss the men or whatever if they get a touch visit or whatever
it's called
it's wild
i wonder if they get drug tested in prison
now i know in the army
my husband was in the army for awhile
well he's in it for seven years they had urine tests all the time
yes
but they get people to do it for them
all right
say just per se
my husband's friend knew that a pee test was coming up he would ask my husband to do it for him
not that my husband did it
oh yeah
well
yeah
because well because most of the time
it was one of your [contemporaries] heading it up
because my husband was like with his acting sergeant and he would uh i'm not saying my husband did it
but he's told me it's went on
but his buddy would be coming through the line hey ken
i can't do this
can you do it for me you know
and like i said it's all his [contemporaries] and his friends there
so he just he was in command or whatever
so you know that happens
i mean sure that happens a lot
yeah
it's not a lot of them because not all of them have the nerve to do it
yeah
well yeah
most of of the time
if they fire well no
they do fire on practice ranges but there's usually lots of room for it too
but if you get caught you get busted out of the army
and they can send you to leavenworth so
leavenworth that the
huh_uh
it i think it's a government prison for like treason or the base my sister was on had a prison of their own which they they they're pretty strict in the army
well actually i'm all for it
even though uh for instance like in the area that i work for you know there's no danger you know of someone getting hurt because of you know being on drugs or something
but uh uh i think because of ethics involved and uh things i'm just i'm in favor of it
i i realize that that's putting a lot of government control in effect
or or control over people
but uh
oh definitely
well it's just like uh i can't remember now where it was what two three months ago
there's that there was that bad train wreck and uh one of the uh engineers running the train was on drugs
you know
and people were killed in it
and and yeah
when it comes to safety and people being killed
i definitely think it should be a requirement you know
you're uh you know to heck with their rights you know they're interfering with people's rights to live
you know if they're in that type of position and have that much control over people
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
feeling like that
if you know then you can look into a situation
and in case there are children involved
uh_huh
yeah
i can i can understand that
i i think it is you know i think it's so sad these these crack babies that are now coming into you know grade school elementary
school you know that are so uh-oh
you know they're so messed up themselves
and you know in talking to teachers
i have several uh friends that are teachers they uh uh you know they're hard to control they're hard to deal with
and yeah
i think that would be a good idea
being i'm a contract person with texas instruments
and before i could even go to work here i had to be drug tested
you know
and they do a random drug testing of their employees uh but so far uh they don't require everyone to do it
they just go through randomly and pick someone
and you know
and go do it
so
t i has an excellent uh assistance program
if you're you know found with drugs they actually give you i think uh three tries you know to to quit it or get off of it or or whatever before you're you know dismissed i mean they work with you
and they they have a program uh uh that you can go to that the company picks up the [tab] for
and also
it's really an excellent program
i
it seems like the older ones here are in favor of it the younger ones you know
course are still they either you know doing some marijuana or something or they're very idealistic
you know
and uh i don't know
i think sometimes the older that you get
i think the more ramifications you can see of so many things
is it
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
this this program you know [encompasses] everything
but you know i thought you know it's not an instant dismissal if you are found to be taking drugs which i think you know is good
and is good on t t i part as i said i think they give you three chances you know to come to grips with it before you're dismissed uh_huh
uh_huh
hi
i'm rita from garland
uh we have quite a in depth subject here don't we
why couldn't we get something simple like movies or books something more more fun
yeah
well we will we'll just give them lots of talk about won't we
yeah
that's right
okay
well uh i have a business of my own
and i feel pretty strongly about it
i don't mind being drug tested
and i don't feel the employee should
now you know
no
i i you know i think sometimes that when you fly for example you know pilots and things like that
or
people um that are even using uh automated equipment of some kind where another person could be injured you know
you know
and uh well a lot of times i think it depends upon the occasion
but you know i've never had any problem with being drug tested
and i wouldn't think that other people should have either
i guess that's sort of a personal opinion
uh_huh
well i have a private high school
and uh we get permission from the parents before the children the students [enroll] to allow random drug testing
because i've seen what can happen to youngsters who were not on drugs being around it and getting influenced by their peers who are
and there's a lot of it in the public school system
yeah
and of course good kids try to stay away from it
but i've seen kids start out
not being on drugs and end up being there because it was being sold right out under their noses you know
so uh you know i feel pretty strongly about it
i you know i know that there are people that say we're [violating] their civil rights and what have you
but they don't have to [enroll] you know they don't have to take that job if that's the way they feel about it
yeah
that's right
they're [violating] ours you know
well they can be more productive and more useful yeah
i feel that way too
we don't uh kick them out
we ask we call parents in if we haven't had one test positive yet
but if it did we call parents in and uh you know get help for them
before it's too late
oh he just
uh_huh
and uh you know it's just really a shame that he couldn't get enough help to keep his career going
yeah
i think so
and uh i think that youngsters who look up to the roy [tarpleys] and uh the other people that have gotten into drugs
i think they're going to be more conscious of the effect it can have
and they get you know look at what he's thrown away
you know a wonderful career a tremendous amount of money uh because he couldn't get enough help to overcome it
and probably wasn't early enough either
but i think they can influence the youngsters in a good positive way when they're good role models now i think so too
and i think it's important you know i i have never been against being drug tested myself
and so i feel that the owner of a company you know you set forth policy
and you follow through with it too
you know
and it doesn't exclude this one or that one
it's everybody's it's all [inclusive] i know t i
does that t i
you know they never know who's going to be called
you know
uh_huh
it's just a random thing that they'll get a call
um but don't don't you find that that sort of [imposes] a uh
i mean it i
yes
i think so
i mean i
well probably not as often as as as you'd like to think
and and when you when you take and i mean it's like would you like to have somebody would you like to have the police able to come to your house and search for for let's say weapons uh twice a day without telling you uh would you like to have them come and find and look maybe for uh-oh
uh illegal books and and could they come and and and just knock on the door and walk into your house and say i want i want to find illegal books
yeah
well
um okay
well would you the at work
would you like them to be able to search your purse
and and every time anytime they wanted to just come and and check to see if you had anything that was maybe against the company
i i i'm
it's not that i'm in favor of of you know that i think people should be allowed to take drugs at the job or or you know anything like that
of course
but on the other hand it's it's it seems a little bit nasty to me just to have this uh uh you know it seems quite an [imposition] on on personal freedom to have uh you know the the the vast majority of people that are at work aren't aren't taking drugs and have nothing to do with them and yet they're being subjected to the to the same kinds of of [imposition] that everybody else is
and and i i think that that's just unfair if you put it in a different context you see the same the same you know it it it becomes a little clearer of course you know i my assumption is that that you don't take drugs and and and you
of course would never have have nothing to hide in that sense
and so it that doesn't doesn't hit home very close
right
but when it's something else
it it does hit home and and i've you know it it gets more like a police state
uh and it's a lot less like america to me
and i and i find that uh i find it pretty offensive to have you know to to be you know i mean to to subject
everybody to that kind of of of uh how you know random search yeah uh
yeah
yeah
uh you know and and again you know in my case i have nothing to hide and i'm not going to you know it's not going to hurt me
but on the other hand i'm very uh it it [perturbs] me to have the this issue
yeah
i mean
just to to to be able to walk in and say you know now you have to show us this or you have to do that
or you have to
and uh it it seems it it seems like it's an erosion of of of a lot of what makes uh the the united states what it is
and and i i i strongly dislike that uh
and so yeah
now actually actually i i don't take a a totally strong position on it
i mean i think that i think there are certain certain positions
no
no
no
i i think that there there are certain positions where the the benefits of it [outweigh] the the the disadvantages of it
and and like you say you maybe airline pilots or or uh you know people who who whether
yeah
i i suppose you know i i i kind of wonder about sort of random testing in general i i guess random testing is a way to make people not not feel like they're being [singled] out
right
because you know it seems like that that uh you ought to be able to tell who who has a problem
and and uh and be able to deal with them
uh but but i suppose that has uh some some negative side effects too
right
i mean people
[persecuted] or something
right
yeah
and uh and i suppose that the random testing
i guess the logic is that if as long as you know if if if you're not involved then you don't have a problem then it shouldn't it shouldn't be any an issue for you
and and and eventually the people that are actually doing that
and causing the problems will be will be caught at it
but uh i don't know
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i i you know it's it's sort of like you know i i don't i just disagree with your position in general
it's it's
well i i think my feelings on it
are
it depends
i think if it's necessary if you have the kind of job that requires you to always be you like police officers firemen doctors anybody who has you know who's whose decisions are important and all you know
that's what i think as far as you are required to not only be at work when you're not at work as it were you know what i'm saying
if you yeah
people who who could be at work at any time or whose decisions could be [clouded] if they had to make a decision
when they aren't at work
but i don't see the point in it if you're if you're putting something together down at the local pizza place or whatever
then i i just don't see what merit you're going to have from gaining what you do when you're not at work in those situations is your own business
i think i think that's an infringement upon your personal rights
that's an invasion of your personal privacy
that's
if they were to decide that you shouldn't be drinking would they just you know i mean you have to draw the line somewhere
i think and give people the right to do what they need to do
and what they want to do
yes
i okay
i'm i'm i'm
i i think that's fine
i think if you if it matters to you that much then you should you know i mean if you want to weed out those kind of people right from the start
i have no problem with that because you don't you don't want somebody who is a drug user starting work for you
but i don't i don't think that they can just come back and get you anytime
you know i i don't think it it could be surprise at your door here we are you know
or or come to show up for work one day
and then just say here you go uh uh i don't know it's kind of a
yeah
it's really you know
yeah
exactly
yes
uh_huh
it's yeah it's kind of a
do you you trust me
do you not trust me
you know it's i don't know
i i don't really it's awfully it has it's points it's good points and it's bad points and it kind of makes us look like we're going in the other direction as far as the way the rest of the world is going almost
you know i've walls are coming come down in berlin and we
and here we are we are going the other way
yeah
it does
i don't know it's kind of a [perplexing] problem
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
who am i harming as long as i am doing my job
yeah
yeah
yeah
exactly
you don't want your doctor coming in hung over if he is going to be cutting on you that day
that's for sure
so i you know
that is difficult you are going to you can't
but then that just kind of comes back to personal responsibilities
you
but i guess that's more or less forcing you to be personally responsible for yourself
it's basically all that they are trying to do with that
and if you want to after you look at it that way because you would think your doctor wouldn't be out drinking at night before
but if he thought he could get caught doing it then he certainly wouldn't do it as opposed to
well it's not a big operation tomorrow what the heck
yeah
it's just a [gallbladder] and you know no problem
i guess that's just that's basically what they're doing then just forcing you to be responsible
but i guess some people have to be forced so that yeah
wasn't yeah
that's
i don't know
i i kind of think well it's partially because we have the technology now
but it's also because i think moral standards have gone down hill quite a bit since earlier
you know i mean it's it's just reached that point where society accepts you know you don't think about seeing your doctor our at a bar anymore
so what do you think about uh employers screening you know job candidates for drug drug usage right
right
you think it [infringes] on personal rights to have that type of screening
but a lot of times people who are on drugs don't admit it
right
yeah
i don't really have that much of a problem with drug screening
i think uh if it's effect their job performance uh i think it's reasonable for an employer to request a drug test
but uh
right
yeah
it always should be mandatory for some uh positions such as those
but uh
that's true
that's true
you there has to be
that's that's the key i think is what happens when you find a person who is on drugs you got to just that's when you have to be careful you know you can't just
fire every person something needs to be done to help these kind of these people
right
they can go and
right
there should be some sort of program they can go into to try to clean themselves up and to be given a second chance
uh_huh
true
right
right
right
yeah
that's true
yeah
i don't know
i am thinking if from my perspective let's say you owned a business and you would want to have the opportunity to screen any uh candidate for a job within your own company
and if you put yourself in that situation you don't want to hire someone who is on cocaine
no
but i i could it's something i may do eventually
so uh from that perspective
i can i can see the need for drug testing
uh_huh
right
well uh
right
yeah
you can't really do that you could be hiring someone for uh uh a [managerial] white collar position in your company
okay
well uh i guess since i called i will start out with my feelings about it
uh i think it is absolutely essential that some at least some employees of government agencies and companies be tested
especially when it effects public safety i mean the military obviously uh people that run trains airplanes and the like
uh for others
i don't know
i don't feel as strong about it
uh i really don't have any objection to it
but i can't really say i am for it either
what's your feeling
uh_huh
yeah
right
or northwest i think northwest has had a lot of problems with that
i uh i have been in two
two situations where i have had to under go drug testing drug testing
i was in the military for a number of years
and then i worked four years uh as an uh electrical inspector uh in a nuclear plant that was under construction and in both cases uh you know we were subject to uh to random testing for drugs
and i know a lot of people refused to a lot especially the nuclear plant
or would uh you know strongly object to it
but you know i can see the need for it
so i i went along with it i think if i were a clerical worker for instance though uh and really couldn't effect anybody else
i'm not sure that i
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
probably alcohol has more of an effect
for for a shorter period of time
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
so they were doing it just to uh they wanted to make sure that their employees were productive probably that's that's probably why they justified it
no
i am just trying to imagine why they would want to test you
right
right
yeah
i i think that people who do something that could hurt somebody else
so you don't
oh uh random drug testing is kind of tough because it it involves this kind of uh trading off of of our individual civil rights for some kind of concept of uh [furthering] a common good almost you know there's a there's a there's a trade off of our civil rights against i guess our employer's right to to having a good job or something
uh_huh
yeah uh
well that's a good point
the only uh the only thing i really disagree with is and this isn't this isn't exactly disagreement i'm not sure that drug testing is strictly aimed to catch people
but i would think that it also acts as a deterrent if someone if someone knows that there's a threat that that they might get caught it might be that much more of an [impetus] to to stay away from whatever the drug is they're they're on
well i mean i would think that uh if someone knows that there's there's an even greater chance that they're going to get caught uh having drugs that that that would act to discourage them that it would uh you know if you know dad's in the other room perhaps you're going to be less likely to steal the the cookies out of the cookie jar because he might be coming in any minute you know
uh_huh
well the the uh the mayor of baltimore is a rhodes scholar and i i forget his name
but one thing that he suggested doing was taking the money taking all the money that he gets for uh uh fighting the war on drugs and use it for like drug education to to open up the [methadone] programs to get the people off drugs that that want to be off drugs
uh in thinking that that it's we're not doing a good job of fighting the war you know in in trying to crack down on people that are using drugs maybe [legalizing] them and and trying to help those that you know having the resources there to help someone uh would be a better idea
but and i agreed with him somewhat i could see his point
but uh switzerland opened up a uh uh a park
and and for years
it just kept getting worse more and more people kept coming to the park and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse until finally the swiss have decided to close it down
so uh i don't know
i mean it sounds like it sounds like there aren't going to that there isn't a perfect solution
good point
it's a good point
and although although alcohol consumption did jump right after prohibition it did come back down
yes
you do
ever uh hello
yeah
okay
so we're started
i guess i'll press one again there
uh i'm surprised it's not telling us that that uh we're going
but at any rate
uh had do you have such a program uh where you work
well i'll tell you the truth when it when it was introduced at texas instruments
there was a lot of hard feeling
now my initial reaction was [benign] i uh really didn't feel as a matter of fact i was sort of sympathetic in the sense that uh uh you know we we want to stamp out uh drug use
uh and uh the it's certainly no good for the company to have employees who are on drugs
uh and i don't really consider it uh an invasion of privacy
because uh drug use is uh a dangerous influence on other people in society
uh there i was in with a group of fuzzy heads however who uh were [rabidly] opposed to it
and i i gradually became [proselytized] uh by this group
and the to me the big sensitive thing is well the there couple things
one is the is the [insult] of it perhaps as a uh pre employment test is one thing
but to come in post [facto] and say to uh employees who are tried and proven uh that they've been asked to do
they're going to have to submit to drug test is
sort of a slap in the face
and of course there are problems with doing that you realize because uh this requires a very strong minded management and uh uh a supervisory it requires the supervisor to be brass [balled] in a sense to go to a an employee who appears to possibly be under the influence of drugs and say you've got to take a drug test
uh as opposed to randomly requiring it of everyone
right
was that on a need on a need basis or
oh i see all right
uh right
uh i guess the other objection that i was exposed to at texas instruments was the uh [unproductive] nature of it that basically uh drugs is not a problem at texas instruments
and the corporation
i think are going through this exercise mainly to remain in the good [graces] of their customer the government
uh rather than to improve their productivity by [stamping] out drug use because the the likelihood of finding drug users in the t i
population is very very low
okay uh
so we're talking about drug testing on and how we feel about it in the in the work place
yeah
yeah
my my gut feeling is to probably side uh on the the bill of rights side of this and say that it's an unfair uh uh invasion of privacy
i i uh i have to say that i from my political point of view
i tend to be i tend on sort of fall in the liberal side of a lot of issues
but at the same time uh part of my own picture of the way politics should work in this country is there also should be uh [regulatory] controls on things and i think that when you have situations where uh in uh a working individual uh could do damage
for instance a an airline uh you know or or somebody who's driving a public carrier like like truck drivers and stuff like that
i think that there is a uh far more substantial issue uh at hand
but i think there are other ways uh other than than doing things like drug testing to monitor the way uh people behave uh i think a for instance a good manager should be able to tell that somebody's got a personal problem uh in in like a clerical environment or a a work environment like i'm i'm a computer programmer
so if i were [indulging] in activities like that or one of my colleagues were uh it would seem to be pretty easy to to tell if their performance was suffering for it
how do you feel about these things
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
sure
and that could ruin somebody's life
even if they were [vindicated] sure
uh_huh
well i have to say i'm i'm a child of the sixties and uh it it you know i grew up
and when i was young i [flirted] around with some of that stuff like a lot of my friends did
and i saw a lot of my friends ruin their lives or not not really
i don't know
i guess i saw a couple of friends ruin their lives
and that sort of thing
but i didn't see most of them ruin their lives with it
in fact most of them went through it like a phase like you know most teenagers will drink for a little while and then when they you know have to start
you know working and that sort of thing
they tend to cut it back to drinking on the weekends or whatever
and and they become adults about it
and uh in fact my attitudes about the kinds of drug problems that we have in this country uh are are that i think that the government should [administrate] it in a you know in a completely different manner i think it would be a a good source of revenue i think there's some some evidence about the way this [stuff's] been handled in europe that shows that it can be controlled in different ways
but that's sort of moving off the topic at hand here
and i you know the the fact of the matter is is i think that issues like this really really are
i mean to a certain extent
they involve the whole question of liberty and a person's right to privacy
and that sort of thing because uh uh you know
i mean
yeah
and and uh it it
i you know the fact of the matter is is i think that that an adult responsible worker doesn't want to have this kind of thing in his life if it's going to uh have an impact upon his ability to make a a a living
and and you know and and keep his livelihood coming in
sure
and and uh and and so you know it's uh i
so anyway i guess that we're we're largely in agreement in that uh case
and uh and in fact i think that uh
because you know i mean i
it's it's literally i you know
i'm in my late thirties now
and it's easily been almost jeez man maybe twenty years
almost since i last had any of that that sort of stuff
uh around me
but at the same time
i don't think that that necessarily gives me a right to
i'm a little uh i'm a i i think that that i do
i i'm not sure that uh
that i think it should be like a normal practice all the time
i think there are certain circumstances where it's important
but it it kind of touches on on on privacy
and so you know i have kind of a a feeling that that it's a little [invasive]
but then again on the other hand you have to stop and realize that uh a lot of people are are uh are are trapped in that in that addiction thing you know
and it's bad for them
but that's not necessarily going to mean that they're going to get the help they need and and get cured or anything you know
and some jobs uh uh require you to be straight and with it to do a good job and protect yourself and things like that too you know so how you think how you feel
right
there you go
that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
yeah
right
yeah
well well the problem there is that you know a lot of people that have worked for the same company for so long
uh that company decides well if we're going to hire new people you know well we're going to have to start checking it because we've had a problem in the past
well their problem in the past is with past employees and so the new people are saying well if you know i mean i'm sure this could happen
you know if you're going to if you're going to uh test us
you should be testing the old people too
and so they get into a to a discrimination problem probably or something like that
yeah
see there's one of the big problems people are are in that situation
they need that job uh
and uh then they have the choice of either take the test or don't get the or or don't take the job
and if they know they're going to fail the test you know they're kind of in in uh between a rock and a hard place there
so it's uh kind of a bad situation
oh really
lucky you
uh_huh
right
he was going to fail
right
because you're not going to get the job
if you don't
yeah
huh
i don't know
i've heard people using somebody elses you know
[smuggle] it in
making a whole new element of society out there
you think that that spot testing for drugs is is well like it said you think it should be done [permissible] and where do they draw the line
yeah
what's really bad is you know that i work for t i
and t i
does it
that's no problem
i'm i don't take drugs anyway i don't have any problem with that
but our own defense system doesn't do it
the government doesn't do spot testing
for not only for you know the f b i
and defense systems and everything else
but they impose it upon the on the standard public and i i really don't care one way or the other
i think it it prevents a lot
i think guys aren't so willing to take drugs at work anymore
or do drugs and go to work
but
yeah
yeah
there well there even at t i
there was there was quite a change when they come out with drug testing
i think it's a great deterrent
and uh i know a girl that works for town and country and she had they just they go around and they just pick a store one store in the city a month
and they go down and did do drug testing on all of its employees from the manager all the way down
so there's no [discriminating] there
you know they're not they're
and even like t i now t i
if you go out and they test you positive for drugs first they send you to drug rehab they don't just throw you out the door and fire you
so you know they're not out hunting heads but i think it should be done across the work spectrum i don't i don't disagree with it i think it's a good thing to have
but i think it should be done across the whole work spectrum
i don't think that one company should do it
and the other company not i don't think that t i should necessarily need to do it when the federal government doesn't you know
and it it ought to be standardized somewhere
somebody has to you know and and they we got into a big discussion about it at work about against being unconstitutional and against somebody's privacy rights
but that you know i don't want some guy hopped up on drugs next to me working on a machine
i might get my head cut off you know
yeah
yeah
yeah
i seen that too
but i agree with it
you know i think it should be done
i think it should be done everywhere
i don't think it should just be done one company or another
you know like you said
not at mcdonald's
but you know there's nothing at mcdonald's except a deep fat [fryer] full of grease that
somebody can stick their hand into or you know i don't think drugs have if if i have no [qualms] if they want to take drugs
that's their problem
it's not mine
but i don't want them around me or near me or working with me
or you know not while they're hopped up
i don't want a drunk there either
i don't want some guy in there that's drunk working next to me either
so
and they're all drugs
so i agree
i think it should be done
i think it should be done all the everywhere
i don't think it should be done in one place and not another
i think it should be done
i think it should be done
every time a person needs to
well you know changing jobs you have to to get into t i
you have to take a [urines] urine test anyway
and they
won't hire you if you test positive
but once you're there
and they they they test you positive they'll at least send you to drug rehab or some kind of counseling anyway
and i think it's working
i think it's doing pretty good job
so
uh_huh
yeah
most of your major companies do now
well that's good
you know i it prevents a lot
it's a great deterrent
whether or not
it helps in the long run
nobody knows
but it works pretty good
all right
uh_huh
yeah
you woke me up
but that's okay
see you later
yeah
matter of fact it's sort of interesting because they do have drug [testings] at the company i work at
yeah
uh_huh
uh i don't know
i was uh for the most part
the people that it's effected have not exactly been the most valuable employees
so i personally think that you know it doesn't hurt the business center the work atmosphere you know
yeah
it's basically new employees
yeah
um existing employees are too
but they for some reason they don't uh
uh do anything about it you know they don't uh exercise it
they supposedly have it
but i've never heard of anybody getting randomly tested
um electrical engineer
hold on for just a second
my ninth month old just got hold of one of my three and a half inch [diskettes] i think uh that won't last very long write protection just doesn't uh doesn't have any eat protection on it
right
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
they they i think the way they figured out with us is basically just they can [globally] say if anybody comes for you know an application white black educated [uneducated] everyone has to take it
and that way you know they're open um and i guess you know our company has a fairly good turnover
so i guess they figure that they'll get the majority of employees that way
now i do know of two employees that were fired because they couldn't pass and i don't know exactly why they were picked out to do the drug testing
because i know i wasn't
but um that's right
interesting
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
ours is for security reasons
we're government contractors and they don't want secrets leaking out
right
yeah
there are requirements matter of fact i think [levied] upon the company to have some sort of drug testing
but uh
oh yeah
there was a a big thing saying that it was you know invading people's rights and things like that
you know
but then again it's against the law so it's like how can they you know be invading your rights [verifying] that you've just been invading the law
uh_huh
uh_huh
well they you know they said that um i don't know if it's ever been proven for sure
but they were saying that some prescription drugs could show up as being drugs
but
yeah
as long as they give you another shot
yeah
right
um virginia
uh_huh
where are you calling from
oh okay
oh okay
well i'm um up near the capitol up near d c
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
i missed it this year
but uh you know we've we've seen it a couple of times
and it's really nice
but didn't get to see it this year
there are so many things you take for granted when you're in here you know year round d c
yeah
every now and then we've been down there haven't uh taken the kids down yet though
we uh took them to the white house for easter egg roll
and uh down in the mall for fireworks and things
my oldest is uh two
so she's just getting to the age where you know she'd recognize the [whale] and everything like that
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i did too
thank you
how do you feel about uh drug testing bob
okay
uh how do you feel about people that are subjected to having to have the drug testing done
uh_huh
oh
uh what recourse do you think a company would have then if they had people using drugs and were jeopardizing the company structure
protection
uh you mean uh uh the test to
oh the [polygraph] uh_huh
uh_huh
correct
do you
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
i guess uh they feel because drug use is so widespread and there's not any uh [deviation] so to speak between an executive and a lay person as far as drug use goes
and uh i feel
and just looking at it on the surface uh that they wouldn't have much of a choice uh in picking somebody uh sometimes drugs don't uh the results of taking drugs don't come out until after something tragic has happened and in order to uh resolve it before it happens that they feel that this is the most direct way and painless way of uh [scanning] their uh employees
i know that in our company
i have not known a woman to have the drug test yet
but of course the men i guess it's more and i don't know if this is true
if it's more popular between men drug use than it is women because i know there are a lot of women that do use drugs
but
uh_huh
as there are men
uh_huh
i don't know anybody uh in even a random uh friendship that uses drugs
uh_huh
uh_huh
a casual user
of drugs or
uh_huh
just to try and see what it was like
and then yeah
that were experiencing different things
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
well i i would be uh i don't have any desire to
but i would be awfully fearful because of all the uh um [illicit] drugs that are around and the methods by which they're made
and some of them are very deadly and it's kind of playing russian [roulette] with
drugs
so it
uh_huh
well it doesn't bring anything but chaos
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you think
a rule against a certain uh uh substance is in violation of their civil rights
uh_huh
i wonder if uh now in their applications when they hire people i know it wasn't in the application that i filled out years ago
but if now they uh are very up front with saying we are going to test you for drugs
and if it's then knowledgeable to the uh [applicant] uh_huh
uh_huh
so they know that it's not a
right
uh_huh
well i don't know how you feel about drug testing
but i'm dead set against it
uh_huh
yeah
um i think about the only candidates that are out there that are you know anti anti war on drugs or [vis] a [vis] war on rights is uh pretty much to your libertarian candidates which um i personally have some doubts as to whether any of them can get elected
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well it just
i mean really seems the ridiculous
because um the um u s department of labor i'm not sure might be a different agency requires um businesses to post this [poster] that has like minimum wage laws and a bunch of other laws and one of the things
it posts is um on the [illegality] of um lie detector tests and um you know i feel that lie detector tests are
well it means that that that there are limits there are definite government limits to you know how an employer can use lie detectors on its employees
and i think that uh i mean i do
i i agree that the lie detectors are inappropriate but i think you know that it's hard to justify being
i don't understand how our government can encourage drug testing
and discourage lie detector tests because it seems like they're testing the same sort of [nebulous] character
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
and and you know i i agree with with a lot of people that you know claim that instead of having random drug tests for continued employment have um motor [impairment] tests
uh because you know they they they would not be any more
they would they would be similarly priced um
and you know if someone if some guy goes to work
and he had a fight with his wife the night before
and you know he has that on his mind and isn't going to be able to function properly you know i i just as you know i i it almost as much you know have as much uh fear of him driving the bus i'm riding than yeah
or maybe more
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
and also on the question of you know just getting employment
i'm you know i'm i'm a senior in college
and i'm applying for jobs
and i know i know a lot of people that are doing it also
and i know some of which that few [indulge] in certain um non [sanctioned] um hobbies
and their basic attitude toward drug testing is is just um moving away moving away from you know the relatively [harmless] drugs like marijuana which uh you know [lingers] for about thirty five days to things like cocaine and l s d which you know one they don't test for
well l s d they don't test for
and cocaine which only stays in your system for about a week
and i used you know i i just you know wonder what effect this is having you know
yeah
yeah
i mean that's you know that's entirely [anecdotal] evidence i know a couple people you know that have moved in the direction
but i just you know wonder you know overall what the trend is
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
and just the feeling that you know
okay
uh no
i sure haven't huh_uh
uh_huh
what kind of test
do they do
i mean just for urine tests
uh have you heard that they can test so far back
they say six or seven months whether you've done drugs by uh taking some of your hair
oh okay
but is that possible though
oh okay
uh_huh
well no
i've never been tested for uh drugs or anything like that
work place
uh i don't think it's really necessary
it's just dependent upon the type job
it is if it's a job
that's uh dealing with say uh like a pharmacy job or something like that maybe you know a certain amount of testing should be done or in the field of a doctor or something like that
but uh as far as just
yeah
an
every day job i would say no
just certain categories i would say
right
yeah
uh_huh
really
um
that is unusual
um but the thing is that do you think at some point you know probably about everyone has has experienced drugs of some type
do you think that it's possible that uh about every individual have experienced some drug of some type
uh_huh
oh that's right
is it a pretty so it must be a pretty large percentage still that experiment with drugs
right
oh okay
uh_huh
right
right
right
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
what what do you think the chances of of drug every diminishing uh because a lot of it i feel that they catch the people that are handling drugs
but they're not catching the people that bring drugs into the country
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
um that's interest
uh_huh
well that's true
it sure was uh
okay
well hello frances um yeah
i guess when i uh first
i guess i had mixed feelings about this uh subject when i first heard about it
um i thought it was kind of a neat way of uh screening uh screening for potential problems good way for companies to
weed out people with drug problems
but since then
i've been hearing uh well i read an article in the wall street journal last year that talked about um the different results that they get from uh different labs and that uh many labs will give uh false positives especially some of the less expensive ones
and that people have been denied employment on this basis
uh_huh
yeah
there's a
i know some employers have have been able to uh reduce some tremendous problems
they've had with employee turnover health problems and accidents and theft and i understand that certain jobs
like if you're driving a train or plane or something
of course there'd be increased need for it
one thing that always kind of bugged me about it was uh there's they most of them don't test for
actually the number one drug problem which of course is uh alcohol abuse and of course that you know everybody talks about all the other drugs
but uh i understand alcohol is really still the number one health problem
and the number one abused drug in in our country
so it seems kind of too bad that that one's [tolerated] while other ones are are you know are the ones that they focus on
well see now in texas uh didn't they only recently ban open containers in in vehicles a few years ago
oh really
oh man
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
i expect possibly in texas it's uh you know
an attorney knows they get in front of a jury
and the jury will be thinking well i've done that before
or he's just a good old boy you know
yeah
right
what else how else do you drive in your pickup down the highway
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
well same here
i'm doug
from pennsylvania
yeah
okay
so anyway now we're talking about drug testing
and all that
and you ready
okay
so what do you think about it
right
i agree with you basically so it might be a boring conversation
but um but anyway i agree that um only when there's any question of safety does the employer have a right because otherwise i feel that the measure of whether someone should stay employed or not
it is just performance whether you're able to do the job up to par and that and if that can be done it shouldn't matter whatever the employee might do in his private life
okay
yeah
yeah
that
well probably at least on the average
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
certainly and certainly in any case people who drink alcohol a lot
are probably not as good workers i think that most drug testing programs don't include that they're really interested in looking for illegal drugs
it seems to be more for the purpose of law enforcement than for the purpose of the employer's best interest for the job
yeah um
oh
gee
um well we're supposed uh that's miles davis
yeah
uh right
exactly
it's on the radio um so anything
right
okay
yeah
i guess not
and i think we've said about what we have to say
sure thing
bye
well i'm i'm for it based upon my experience uh in taking uh drug tests
my uh my past experience in the military plus uh my current occupation working uh for a defense contractor here in massachusetts uh i feel that it's uh there is some opinions whereas the uh people of the mind that uh it's a right to privacy that you know it's a it's a [bodily] function involved and that uh uh people should have a right to protect themselves and so forth
but i don't agree
i think that uh it's important particularly for some jobs and some jog job occupations that uh people can be screened for uh should be screened for uh for drugs through your drug testing
uh_huh
right
yeah
so i think we're in agreement that that uh uh that it's a good uh it's a good idea
in some circumstances
the one [reservation] i have though in that from my and i've taken many many drug tests
some of them random some of them uh scheduled and every time you take one of those tests you know when you're [submitting] a sample
there's always in the back of your mind
well how are you know people [conducting] the test the labs that are performing the test how adequate uh are those facilities
and uh is is always is it always a chance
i know that what they call uh the i think it's called the chain of custody of the uh the [specimens] themselves
i know in the in the military particularly they there's a
they they go to great lengths at protecting the samples before they get to the labs
but my concern is
and i think that that that what needs to be further investigated is the uh the [standardization] and to have some hundred percent insurance that the test that's given uh the the the lab that performs the uh the analysis is uh [validated] in some way you know
some [standardization] because i've heard some horror stories you know
sixty minutes did an article on this whole subject a few uh a few years ago
and there was a air force captain who uh you know took the test
and it came up positive
and the guy swore on a stack of [bibles] now in the military for for a staff staff n c o which is a a non [commissioned] officer but it's a certain rank i don't know if you're familiar with military rank structure
it's a it's a high level of [enlisted] personnel and officers for those people who show up positive on one drug test
they're immediately [discharged] now for certain ranks and below like sergeant and below if you're found positive or come up dirty in a on a on a drug test you can be reduced in rank [forfeit] your pay
or if it's a repeat repeat uh offense then they get [discharge] but there's this this this air force captain he swore up and down that he didn't do anything
and they went back and you know few months later to try to investigate the lab
and the sample that he had given was destroyed
so
i i think you got to be careful with stuff like that
that's that's my only concern about the whole issue i think
yeah
uh_huh
uh yeah
because there's a big thing in the in the here on the east coast
the boston police department uh the [policemen's] association took the
uh the boston police department to court because they were uh trying to institute drug tests
on the cops here in boston
and uh they won the police the the police association won
and it it was a right to privacy type deal that they approached it
and the courts
agreed
yeah
oh yeah
definitely
well you know the thing is is in all these transportation accidents
i'm kind of ambivalent myself
uh oh
we we have  that kind of a program at uh at work
but uh i'm not crazy about it myself
uh_huh
right
oh right
um
they they require it before uh employment as as a condition of employment
and then uh they have random testing
i don't know about after accidents because industrial accidents i guess are relatively rare at t i
yeah
i really
i guess you could view it that way
i tend to be more concerned about uh where it will go from here
and uh also i not convinced that the at least the kind of people that i work with i'm not convinced that that's really uh doing much for the for the uh drug problem
uh_huh
yeah
for cause
for cause i just um i'm not convinced that that wheeling all this machinery in place and testing a lot of uh uh people who as far as i can tell uh i i think the [yield] is very low
uh
it's uh a lot of expense
i know for companies that aren't doing well
uh_huh
no
yeah
yeah
well i haven't been uh selected for random testing yet
but i'm not looking forward to it
yeah
i understand that
but i'm more
something of a civil libertarian i guess
and uh i think uh i'm just worried about what what they'll do next
yeah
particularly if there
uh i'm worried about this business of uh [detecting] everything that could be possibly wrong with anybody
and then adjusting health insurance accordingly
they're going to start there's
yeah
yeah
right
i'm afraid they'll start uh picking out people with every possible type of risk factor
and trying to exclude them from health coverage
yeah
so that that
right
drug testing could uh could be the first step towards that
so i hope they do it very very carefully and uh uh
except that's it's to what
okay  
well um let's see  
i i think there's a lot of people that don't vote because they don't really think their their uh opinion is going to be heard  
and you know there's such a small voice and such a huge number of people in the united states  
and that you know  
their votes not going to make that much difference  
and whether you vote for one person or the other person the issues is what you know what you believe in  
and that person is going to have a lot of uh  
since there's so many issues this one person can believe a lot of different ways on   all of them  
so it would be really difficult to have that one perfect person that believed exactly what you believed  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
there's uh a lot of extremes on the parties too with the you know the real uh far side of the democrats  
they're real liberal now and to where probably fifty or a hundred years ago um the democrat party being liberal like they are now you know would never be thought of  
it would be the other way that the republicans were real liberal minded as far as like uh moral standings and those kinds of things  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's true  
i think in uh the texas governor elections i think more people turned out to vote against somebody than for somebody this time  
oh really  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
that's true that the different places in america that uh you know different issues would be a lot more important than say in another place  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and it's uh real true that uh you know they'll say one thing   to get elected  
and then once they do get elected they don't have the power or the authority or the willingness to do those things that they promised you know beforehand  
you know maybe it just wasn't possible at all in the first place you know like the no new taxes thing  
you know that's uh  
with the economy going the way it is and everything that was nearly ridiculous   thing to even try to do  
right  
right  
after the war  
that really uh  
uh that's true  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
that's  
you know neither has mine as a matter of fact  
and uh that's true  
they i think they look at it as well everybody the majority of the people think this way when that's not necessarily true   because you know that's what the media says  
well the majority believes this way  
so uh they don't even bother turning out to vote to express their uh opinions  
so that's that's true  
yeah  
do you hear the dogs in the background here  
okay  
they're  
the children next door just opened the fence  
and they went off  
yeah  
but anyway that's  
i guess we've uh talked long enough  
and uh   that was sort of interesting  
what part of the country are you from  
are you really  
wow  
this is  
i'm in from  
this is dallas where i'm at  
the outskirts of dallas  
yeah  
do do you work for t i in any way  
wow  
how did you how did they get you  
oh  
oh okay  
right  
i work for t i  
so we saw it on the uh t news one day  
and i thought wow that might be interesting  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
central standard time is what they're doing it by  
yeah  
i still haven't figured out what the zero through six days which day is which yet  
but   i didn't study it that hard  
so maybe i'll figure it out  
but anyway it was nice to talk to you and uh sort of meet you  
and   that was an interesting topic  
okay  
i'm i'm kyle hunt   too if you ever come to to dallas area  
we live right by the airport  
oh okay  
yeah  
okay  
bye  
okay  
i don't know  
which end do we push  
but okay  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
you know a lot of people uh uh  
i think the that it ends up the people that uh vote every time uh elections come around are more the the polly uh the party type [followers] the guys that uh you know follow the party lines you know  
and   they you know just go in  
and if they're republican they vote republican every year you know  
and uh the people that are independent you know are the ones that don't uh don't really uh show up every year because they can't seem to to decide which are the good aspects and which are the bad aspects of a candidate  
yeah  

i always thought  
it was back when anderson was running i was hoping that things would change and he'd actually get elected and party politics would start going down the tubes  
but um   that didn't work  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's uh  
and then and then people always get upset about it too because you know every year the the the politicians are the ones that are usually pushing for more people to vote  
they they each think that uh if more people vote they'll get more votes huh  
i'm always amazed at that that each candidate thinks it's going to be the people that come out that will vote for him you know  
yeah  
well that uh  
i know that there's certain issues that can really motivate people because we live in a [predominately] catholic type area  
and when things start uh  
when when abortion comes on the issues and people just get all inspired you know  
and uh still on the other hand we're also uh  
this particular community is a catholic community  
but uh uh down in d c where where things are a little bit different uh you know it's it's women's rights and the and that sort of movement  
and so it's uh quite the opposite  
so elections start getting very uh  
the elections where they have that topic seem to be a little bit better attended than some of the other ones  
but uh  
yeah  
i can understand why why some of the the rural areas the voter turnout isn't as much because it does seem sometimes like the lobbyists in d c are like controlling things for the the midwest  
and uh it doesn't matter who they put in office they're going to fall subject to uh the pressure that the lobbyists can put  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
well i don't think he's going to have to worry about that next year  
i think he can probably raise taxes and still get elected  
uh  
uh_huh  
unfortunately that will probably even drop lower the voters [turndown] even more because more democrats will think that they don't have a shot  
so they won't even bother turning out  
they'll just say oh well you know the republicans have this election  
we'll see you in four years  
hope some of the local  
well that's what they they keep saying that it seems like people with old fashioned values are the ones that aren't turning out at the at the [booths]  
they they say that these older voters that uh you know they they feel like the kids are running the the country  
so they they don't come out turn out to vote  
and they're the ones that uh you know really know what's going on have the experience and seen you know how politicians can you know [screwup] or what ever  
but i know my grandmother hasn't voted in years  
yeah  
wonder if they're going to take into account this computerized conversation that there's little children you know bouncing in your knee   the whole time your talking  
no  
i can't hear them  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh washington d c  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
well i figured with texas instruments they'd probably have a few uh texans on the line now and then  
no  
huh_uh  
um they they went through engineering companies  
and uh we're communications  
i i work in a communications company  
yeah  
sort of different  
they called me at uh ten o'clock one night  
that was very strange  
i guess they were doing eastern standard time  
i was like  
i don't know how long it takes whether it takes five minutes or twenty minutes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
okay  
well if your ever in uh d c come look up wayne sherman you'll say oh yeah talked to that guy  
oh  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
so do we  
yeah  
right next to dulles  
all right i'll talk to you later  
bye bye  
okay  
i think it's somewhere really close to that cause i think a lot of people believe that their one little vote is not going to make that much difference  
and they really don't listen to any of the issues anymore  
because they feel like so many of the politicians are like crooked you know  
and so they figure why go out and vote you know  
they're going to do what they want to do  
they're corrupt anyway  
and   i think one of the good ways of solving that is to like everybody likes to come to a party so have a voting party and uh you know like in communities and have the issues there and then everybody go vote together and then maybe come back over and have brunch or something  
i mean that's the only   thing that i can figure out because i've heard so many people say well i'm not going on voting on that one you know i i'm going to go fishing today or it won't make any difference if if i don't vote  
and i think it does  
we vote every time  
right  
right  
and maybe let them have some mock i mean   uh you know elections and stuff   and vote for different people in their classes and start really young  
that's a real good idea  
right  
um  
god  
right  
yeah  
well i don't know how it is up there  
but down here louisiana has a bad reputation for their politicians and all  
i mean i'm sure you heard about   some of ours  
and uh people are just  
i mean it's like they're turned off on voting  
and that's the reason i said maybe if you had something like a block party  
okay  
we're going to have a block party  
everybody's going to get together  
we're going to discuss the different issues and stuff  
and then we're going to go and vote you know  
we're going to go vote  
like maybe they could give something like uh the top neighborhood if you had a hundred percent in your neighborhood or something like that you know  
i mean it doesn't have to be it could be like a a sign that they would put down at the end of your block   you know or anything like that  
but it it's really bad here  
i mean to me it is  
it seems like people just don't care anymore  
they say huh well it don't make any difference you know  
one [crook] is as good as the other one  
and they don't bother to listen to what any of them have to say  
and uh i know my husband now we go vote every time  
i don't care how small the ballot is i   mean if there's one thing if there's one issue  
because the way i feel is if i don't vote then i don't have any reason   to gripe  
right  
and i hear so many people saying well i wish this would change i wish that  
and you know but they didn't go vote  
and uh maybe if they like you said if they would start when little kids and start letting them vote and learn how to vote   and all then uh and the importance of it because okay if you don't vote for your friend over here well your friend's not going to have a chance  
he needs your vote just like he needs everybody elses you know  
maybe if they were brought up that a way like you said it would  
because i know here uh until you get into high school now then they had the voting machines  
and you voted for like [cheerleaders]   and different things like that  
but they should start that a lot earlier  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
right  
definitely  
you know a good idea for the young kids like that too is to have like a a mock one  
and okay this this candidate tells   you some things that are going to happen  
and this candidate tells you   some things  
okay then this percentage of the voters i mean the kids in that class they are not going to let them vote this time  
but they have to do whatever these people whichever one the other people   elect do  
if they did something like that and started kids out real young and showed them okay now you're not going to get to vote  
but you're   going to have to do what that person says  
they would understand probably by the time they were   in high school  
they'd be ready to vote  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that sounds great  
well you know they'd have to start when they're real young  
i mean you know it would have to be a child that is just coming into school  
because well i'll tell you another thing too now  
whenever the first time i voted i never voted in high school because there was never anyone that showed us how to use the   voting machines  
now this sounds dumb  
but i did not know how to use those voting machines  
and nobody ever showed us or anything  
so i didn't vote because anybody that went in there and they asked a question all the other kids   laughed at them  
they thought that was funny  
ah she don't even know how [wah] [wah]  
so there wasn't any way i was going to go in there and vote  
and it took me i mean it took such courage you wouldn't believe   to go vote the first time because i was waiting for somebody to laugh at me because i   didn't know how to work the machines  
now that's bad  
and i mean i was out of school  
i was a married person  
and uh i didn't know how to work the machine you know  
and it really scared me really bad  
because i thought all these people are going to laugh at me because i don't know how to work this machine  
where if they'd if they'd had a class or something or just to a short time you know to said okay this is the way  
right  
it's this is the way it's going to be  
and my son was exactly the same way that i was  
and i didn't realize it until uh his senior year  
i asked him something about well did you who did you vote for for uh [cheerleader]  
and he said oh i didn't go vote  
he said uh there's no way i'm getting in that machine  
well then i realized it  
so when we went and voted the next time i asked the uh lady i said i want my son to come in with me  
and she said well uh why you know  
he'll have to come back out  
i said because i want him to know how to use   one of these  
and i said i won't turn any of the buttons down  
but i want to show him how to use it so that he'll be   able to vote  
and uh so he went in  
and now he's a   registered voter  
but he would not vote   before then  
and i mean i think that's bad  
you know here i was  
and and even of course there's a lot of years between the two of us  
but even with that many years between  
okay  
well uh do you believe only fifty percent of the people actually vote  
huh  
uh_huh  
well  
well it uh there's no question it does make a difference  
uh so far   as having a party and then all voting uh when you have different [precincts] you would have to have a party in every [precinct]  
because people have to vote in different areas  
and uh not everyone votes at the same place  
uh i personally think that we need to do more along the education lines in the schools and the children from the little ones on up with the idea of the the value of voting and the purpose of voting and that one vote does make a difference  
but  
absolutely  
absolutely  
and and they are are doing that in a number of schools   however probably not enough of them uh country wide  
but it's going to take at least a whole generation of people uh to get across the idea of voting  
uh just like it's taking a whole generation of people to finally uh realize the [harmfulness] of drugs and   uh hopefully to uh now with the many programs throughout the country on   how to resist taking drugs  
how to say no to it and what have you  
that  
uh perhaps we'll finally get the youth weaned off of it  
but uh i know i   i spent thirty four years in education here in the dayton area  
and in nineteen fifty one the police were telling us about the drug dealers outside the school and how they were just giving away their marijuana giving away their heroin and what have you to get them started  
and you know that was in fifty one  
that's forty years ago   that it was already a problem  
so it's now uh to the [forefront]  
and people are finally taking some action against it  
and the thing we've we've neglected the value of voting and   uh and what it really means to vote  
and we also don't make the uh the issues perhaps in language that people fully understand them  
uh_huh  
sure  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
to complain about it right  
right  
that's right  
that's right  

yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i  
it's the same way with everything in education though  
it should begin and right down in the first grade  
uh and your very best teachers in my [estimation] should be first second or third grade so that the children develop good learning patterns  
and you have some success and want to go on learning and continue learning uh   and not wait until they're in high school  
and then it's too late to try to change them around at that point  
but uh everything should be started on the lower levels  
and uh certainly if the youngsters had that opportunity that you know they they understood that the principles of the country were established so that everyone would have a say and everyone would have a vote and what that vote meant  
and   uh but it but you're right from the standpoint that people do have a negative attitude towards politicians  
and perhaps it's because our campaigns have become so terribly expensive to run uh that only the most wealthy can do so  
and they're not always the best person for the job  
but they have the money to be able to do it  
so uh   so that there are a lot of problems along that line also  
and perhaps the government  
sure  
right  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
that's right  
and i think you know that's an excellent idea  
they would put them to realize that that their going to have to do what someone else says even though they didn't vote for it   and that maybe they need to think twice about voting  
now some   people object during [primaries] having to declare a party whether republican or democrat  
and   you do that in the primary  
uh and i don't know that uh a lot of people vote in [primaries] for that very reason  
uh they can declare anything they want  
and they can actually rig it  
if they really wanted to vote republican they could go in the primary and say they were voting democrat and then stack the ballot for someone that perhaps the republican could beat  
but uh it's uh it's just a sad situation  
and uh i do think more needs to be done along that line to help to uh teach the people uh uh everyone uh more about what is going on with voting and with [nonvoting]   so that uh we can make they're making some more intelligent decisions  
and it's going to take these young  
you know it's going to take the uh a whole generation of my feeling uh before that's going to be accomplished  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
right  
well  
sure it is  
uh_huh  
well just the just the opportunity to try the voting machines  
yeah  
right  
yes  
uh_huh  
good  
yeah  
sure it is  
absolutely  
well do you think uh  
i mean i wonder  
the assumption is that it is a problem uh  
and i've never actually had too many people explain to me why it's a problem though i have the same [instinctual] feeling that it's a problem  
and uh but it's not clear to me that it is  
um it's a problem if those voting don't represent the population [demographically] or in terms of their opinions  
but if those who don't vote if you made them vote  
and it those who don't vote would have voted exactly the same way you know in other words if forty percent had voted for that person and sixty percent for the other just like everyone who did vote it's not clear to me that it is really a problem um  
i mean i i assume that those who don't vote  
i mean if you look at the break down of those who don't vote they tend to be you know  
poor blacks for example vote very little and things like that  
and i assume that they would vote differently if they were voting than your average voter  
but i don't know if that's the case  
in fact i've heard of studies that suggest that that isn't  
uh i guess not  
i'm i i vote religiously  
i really do  
um i guess i guess i'm a fan of democracy  
and uh wish i could vote on more things frankly  
but it's funny because here in california things are getting uh increasingly [democratically] oriented in in the sense of people being able to vote for things  
i mean we have these [initiatives] state [initiatives] now  
the first really popular you know wide spread one was uh proposition thirteen which was a uh tax revolt   against property taxes  
uh and you know now we're  
and that was whatever ten years ago  
and now we're up to proposition a hundred and fifty or something like that  
i mean we've just  
there were apparently voters who just threw up their hands after the last voters pamphlet because they were asked being asked to make decisions on topics that would have three different competing proposals  
and you had to vote for you know yes or no on each of them  
and no one could make heads or tails out of some of them  
and it was incredibly complicated and difficult  
and a lot of people [revolted] against that  
they said we don't want to have to decide all these things  
you know that's that's that's why we hire people who uh you know to to make these decisions for us  
yeah  
i do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i wouldn't mind having oh more votes than i get to have frankly  
anyone who doesn't vote it's fine with me as long as i can have their vote  
that would make me happy though  
maybe not in a in a deep philosophical sense but in a selfish sense it probably would  
i don't know  
it's interesting uh some countries voting is obligatory  
uh it is in australia for example  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know how i feel about that  
well australia [considers] itself every bit as much a democracy as the united states  
and it's not for me to say that they're not  
um they they feel  
i mean here you have the right to vote  
and they simply define it as a duty there  
you know we have just as we have a a duty to pay taxes you know  
is that democratic  
i mean we don't have the right to pay taxes in this country  
we have the duty to pay taxes  
and in that country it's a duty to pay taxes  
and it's a duty to vote on how those taxes are spent  
and it's not clear to me that that's so much less democratic  
um   i don't know  
but part of me rebels against that  
but then i'm an american  
yeah  
and some people don't vote  
i mean there is  
like three or four percent of [australians] don't vote  
and i think they're eligible for a fine  
i don't know if they actually are fined or or what happens  
but you're eligible for some sort of fine if you don't vote  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i was sort of  
well i  
that's how i feel  
i mean if if you vote and your guy [looses] well you you least tried  
and you can say something  
but if you don't vote i sort of feel like part of me and it's kind of a nasty part of me feels like well if you didn't vote you get what's coming to you you know  
and certainly that's true in the overall  
i mean no one individual that's true for but for the population as a whole  
i sort of feel that way when they especially when someone they they don't vote for someone because they don't like any of them and then the person gets in and they don't like him and he turns out to have been worse than her that they might have voted for or something like that  
and you know i say well you know voting for the lesser of two evils is still important  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean you i mean it's it's funny because technically you do  
i mean you have the right to do a write in candidate  
but of course that's that's not really a vote  
um  
yes  
it really doesn't  
and so it's it's a complicated situation  
but i would like to see  
i don't know  
i i i'm i'm thinking of actually moving to australia  
and   and perhaps i'll call you back and let you know what how the australian system works  
i mean not because of the i mean i'm not thinking of moving there because of the voting   but just because of a job opportunity  
and uh i  
no  
i'm not  
and uh so i'm i'm really quite quite curious how that would work to have both i mean you know  
and i believe in the in a certain uh  
soviet [bloc] countries you are are obliged to vote too  
in fact it was even pretty much spelled out who you did vote for up until fairly recently  
and that's what i think of when i think of you're obliged to vote  
but when you actually really are given as much choice as you are in this country with its two party system um  
i don't know  
i kind of  
part of me is wary  
and part of me likes the idea of having it be more of a duty um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's a thought  
or certain privileges come from voting which aren't that important but are nice to have  
i don't know  
the right to write your  
yeah  
that's see that's an example of a right not a not a  
actually  
that's considered a privilege not a right  
yeah  
but technically people most people  
technically it's a privilege  
but most people think of it as a right  
i mean in other words if the government [denies] you driving [denies] you a drivers license people get very upset  
but actually it's a privilege   which is allowed to be revoked  
and fortunately voting isn't that  
except well except if you're a felon  
if you're a felon it is taken away from you  
i mean they will take away your right to vote under certain circumstances  
um so gosh  
so we don't have a great solution yet do we  
but i i also i also i don't know if you've uh read any of the um oh what do they call those the uh the early republican uh republic documents uh when they were arguing through constitutional law written by hamilton and all those people  
um oh i think it was hamilton who wrote number ten or something where he was arguing for a republican not in the sense of the republican party now   versus a democratic uh government and arguing successfully why the united states should be a republic not a democracy which indeed it really is a republic not a democracy  
where he [defines] democracy as everyone votes for the issues and republic is people who vote for someone who then in turn votes for the issues  
in other words you vote for representatives  
and the whole idea was um presumably those who get voted in would be wiser than the average person and and a specialist and able to make more informed decisions and can protect against the tyranny of democracy  
because just as you can have a tyranny of a single um you know bad ruler or something you can have a tyranny of the majority  
and uh he makes a very uh [passionate] good argument for why you don't want some things decided by democratic process  
because anytime you have a majority um they can change the law in a a fully democratic process  
and there are cases when you don't want that to be the case um  
oh you know a  
if there's some minority that people don't like because of you know racial hatred or something like that the majority can just simply vote vote against them  
and cases like that he [argues] need to be [constrained]  
and and actually i agree except that i don't trust the people who are appointed to vote  
yeah  
well i i mean i feel that i feel that  
yeah  
well their job is to be reelected by in large  
and so they work on that job  
and there's also an [antigovernment] mood in the country you know where government is [misspending] your dollars  
and and they're all fools  
and you know throw throw the [bastards] out  
that kind of thing  
and there's a notion that somehow if someone isn't as much as a government person they're less corrupt and they're more likely to be good which is really strange  
because i mean if i'm hiring a plumber i want a real plumber  
i want someone trained in  
uh  
um that's that's interesting  
because i had thought  
i feel that it's a problem also  
but i see your point on that  
uh  
apparently they don't think it's a problem  
that's right um  
oh  
right  
i  
i i kind of feel the opposite though  
i wish we were given an opportunity to vote on more things  
i think our elected officials say they are speaking for us  
but they're not speaking for me  
that's true  
well  
is that true  
i didn't know that  
i was  
that is one solution to it  
but i don't  
that's not really democratic not what i'd consider truly democratic  
as  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's a duty right  
uh_huh  
i it's that's   it's complex question when you start thinking about it isn't it  
uh_huh  
that's interesting  
i have people here that i know that have never registered to vote  
and i think i think they feel they can criticize if they don't  
i told them if they don't vote they don't have the right to criticize  
that's right  
i feel  
i think it is too  
sometimes it is a difficult choice  
you don't feel as though you have much of a choice  
but  
it doesn't really gain anything  
is that  
not  
oh i see  
i'm are you a t i employee i'm interested  
not  
okay  
i just wondered  
well uh maybe they should  
perhaps that would be a solution if they were required to vote at least for their first three or four years after they become of voting age   required to register and vote for four years  
and perhaps they would be indoctrinated that this is their duty  
maybe it should go with a drivers license  
that is a privilege  
right  

it is  
that's correct  
maybe it should maybe it should be  
uh_huh  
that's right  
don't have a great  
i i think i checked that as a question i'd be willing to discuss too  
oh  
no  
no  
i haven't  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
sometimes i think we have that right now with congress  
i think they're looking after their own self preservation more than they're actually looking after the good of the country  
right  
okay  
do you vote regular  
every one  
well see that's me  
i've never paid any attention to voting  
huh_uh  
unless you have something to do with it  
right  
oh liberal  
by what do you mean by liberal um  
well see i don't know anything about politics  
uh what's the main what's the main difference between republicans and democrats  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
and you vote for the democrats  
or  
usually  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh okay  
no  
i never have  
huh_uh  
i'm twenty six  
i know i i  
well i don't know that much about it  
i don't keep up on it  
and i don't feel like i have enough knowledge on it to even you know   to pick the right person  
so that's what they need well   it uh they said something to improve voting  
if they could make it more oh easier to find out you know what's going on  
do you know what i mean  
like uh like to me i don't i didn't know what would have been wrong with  
i can't even remember who ran for president against bush  
i think it was uh that woman  
wasn't it a woman  
dukakis  
okay  
didn't he have a woman  
or wasn't or was that reagan  
there was a woman that was running for vice president for a while  
ferraro  
okay  
well that's what i mean  
like i didn't know what the difference between dukakis and bush was  
you know i didn't know anything about bush or dukakis  
okay  
i don't remember anything about dukakis  
but well they're all saying that they're going to do you know whatever is best for their campaign anyway  
that's what i mean  
if they had some kind of public programs where you can just go out and  
i don't know  
like you know in school they didn't teach you about uh the government   not really  
huh_uh  
yeah  
well i'm not sure they're  
yeah  
i know how they do it  
it  
like with the abortion issues and stuff  
right  
right  
and like i said most of the the politicians i'm  
also the politicians put out what makes them look good anyway  
and everybody's got you know stuff they don't want known  
well anyway i'm sorry  
i didn't i didn't have much knowledge  
i don't even remember this being on there  
incentive  
i guess that would be good  
now i'm sure they've got it at the library   you know  
i mean if i get to the library  
i've got two babies so i don't  
yeah  
but i i don't know  
oh i know if enough people think like that it you know would make a difference   if people stopped thinking like that  
um well a lot of people they'll vote the way their family votes you know  
if since you're what democrat   then like your kids or whatever will follow you and just vote democrat  
right  
i mean  
no  
all split  
right  
i lie huh  
i don't know  
if i did understand politics i probably would vote more  
but like i said if i voted for bush  
or like when uh gary   hart was running   a lot of women would have voted for him just because he was nicer looking  
not that i think he was good looking  
but   he was young  
and then i didn't think that was right because he may have been a good president or whatever  
but because it  
what  
he had an affair  
and it just threw him out of the whole running  
and a lot of people go by their uh personal life when they vote  
and  
which i guess if you got [turmoil] in your personal life you're going to let it come into work  
but   i'm sure there's a lot of people that have had  
yeah  
well  
well criminal or something like that's different  
but   if him and his wife weren't getting along  
i mean what is what effect does that have on him running for president  
do you know what i mean  
it's all so [secretive]  
see we really don't see the   the true person anyway  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
well what did you think of reagan as a president  
do you think he won from carter because of the um the hostages that were held at that time  
uh_huh  
i thought carter was good too  
and that was  
yeah  
but i think i wasn't  
well let's see  
that's been about ten years ago right  
okay  
so i was only fifteen or sixteen  
but i remember carter  
and i liked him  
no  
i sure don't  
yeah  
i do i try and vote in every single election  
but uh that's just since in the past say about six years  
before that i really didn't pay any attention at all  
oh you haven't  
yeah  
i didn't use to  
but now i really  
because i get so angry about what goes on  
and then i feel like i can't really complain too much unless  
yeah  
but the problem is that i am very liberal politically  
and so i hardly ever have anybody that wins that i vote for  
liberal politically  
i'm you know like pretty left wing democrat  
so  
oh you don't  
okay  
well there's a lot of them um  
it depends on what issue you're talking about  
but democrats are on a lot of issues are more liberal than republicans  
and well it used to be it's kind of hard to say now especially after desert storm  
but um i think back in the times when uh my political opinions were being formed like in during the vietnam war and stuff   the republicans were more you know what they called [hawks] which is more like aggressive in war and more pro war   and pro aggression  
and um the democrats were the [doves]  
they were more for peace  
and i'm not sure how much that holds true anymore  
i think you know the issues are  
yeah  
yeah  
and democrats usually are more supportive of public assistance programs  
and and programs to um  
the big republican thing is that they don't they vote for less government  
they want less government involvement   in society  
and so they're more less apt to vote in you know more aid to people  
or more uh they're less apt to vote in programs that involve the government running things  
so  
so have you ever voted at all  
you haven't  
how old are you  
oh gosh  
well  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  

no  
it was dukakis   from massachusetts  
oh yeah  
that was  
yeah  
ferraro  
that was a while ago  
that was a couple elections ago  
yeah  
yeah  
that's okay  
uh_huh  
so what do you think about uh what do you think about what you see on t v about them like in the news or on the ads  
do you kind of just  
you don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
you didn't get any government classes  
yeah  
it's really hard too  
because before they used to have um a lot of  
it seems like the stuff that they put out now it i mean i doesn't just seem like it  
i know for a fact that the any kind of stuff that if you wrote and asked for material  
well what do you believe in  
what do you believe in  
they don't take any stands on anything  
they kind of say well what do you want me to believe  
or they word it so that it's really hard to tell where they're standing on certain issues  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they have to kind of take a stand on some things like abortion and things like that  
so that's kind of how i judge  
there's a few things where they have to say yes or no like abortion or gun control  
or let me see  
i try to look at what if some of the newspaper articles or the  
i don't trust t v as much  
but newspaper articles can show how they voted in the past  
and   but you get you know  
it all depends again on whose writing it and who they're for because they can slant that too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
everybody's got a secret  
so  
well that's okay  
do you think   do you think um  
i mean what would it take  
like god this is really good actually for to talk to somebody who hasn't voted  
i mean what kind of  
how would it how what kind of stuff would they would you like them to do so that that you would know more about it  
like send stuff in the mail or have it at the library  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh do you  
yeah  
that will tie you down a little bit  
or do you just not do you feel like it's not really going to make that much difference if you don't vote  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well not in my family  
we're kind of we're really independent  
but a lot of families do that  
i know a lot of wives feel like they have to vote the way that their husbands vote  
and that kind of keeps from getting a lot of issues resolved  
golly  
but well  
uh_huh  
hart  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think everybody does  
it just depends on how well you can hide it  
you know and i  
that's very true  
i i think that doesn't really have that much to do with um unless they've done something really horrible you know   or something real [abnormal]  
yeah  
right  
but otherwise  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
i think that's that's having a big effect on how poorly that the country is being run is that um the the election the people that want to get elected are turning it into a popularity contest by advertising the things that   you know that really don't have anything to do with how well they do the job  
but see they're trying to find an excuse not to deal with what you know the issues that people really want to know about because on those issues you have to say yes or no  
and if they don't say yes or no then maybe somebody will vote for them that wouldn't have if they had come down on the wrong side  
do you know what i'm saying  
so they just try and make it a personal thing  
i mean if you remember any of the t v commercials from the last presidential campaign they all had uh pictures of bush with his grandchildren walking around with his grandchildren  
and even from reagan it was all just like looks like a mcdonald's commercial you know  
that's about what it looked like  
i just thought he was really inept  
i don't think he did anything at all  
he they just kind of sat him up there like a [puppet]  
and the people that were  
well i think that was part of it  
i think there's a lot of the economic problems that the country was having at the time and the the recession and stuff  
people just had a picture of carter as not being real capable  
but he actually  
all right  
this  
i thought he was great  
did you  
i always liked him  
i thought he was great at the time  
and i i just couldn't get over the fact that reagan beat him  
i you know that i just couldn't believe that he got voted out  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you did  
have you heard stuff about him lately  
do you know what he's doing  
well he is just he is really active still politically  
he's been overseas  
you remember when he was in office he did a lot of stuff for the middle east for  
well i i've been uh i have probably had more time than you have to think about this subject  
so i'll tell you is it a serious problem  
yes  
i do   believe it's a serious problem  
however there are solutions to it  
and foremost uh where we compare that we are now doing fifty percent of our uh people are voting  
uh we're probably making a comparison against uh some european and uh and uh uh say newer republics that uh   that have very high percentages  
uh so uh one of the reasons uh that uh one of the reasons that we could get uh one of the reasons that it is lower in the united states is that mostly we hold it on tuesdays  
god knows why we hold it on tuesdays  
and then we further   complicate it by saying you know we will keep the polls open until eight o'clock  
most people uh a great number of people now work at various at different jobs that if a third of the people are shift workers they won't be able to get to the to the polls in any case if they uh have to work late into the evening and not get up  
my solution   to that is that we hold it on sundays as do probably sixty to seventy percent of the european countries now  
they hold it on the no they hold it on a either a   saturday or a sunday   or at least a day when when uh a great number of people are not working  

in america that is not true because a a great number of people work on sundays  
but that is one of my solutions uh  
have you absentee   voted in in   in texas  
well i have absentee voted in uh new hampshire  
and it is a fairly fairly complicated process where you have to go   pick up the ballot  
i do not say that it is that complicated  
but part of the process also is that you must register [preregister] at some particular point  
new hampshire is fairly easy  
but other states   you have to register every couple of years and uh   well to vote to vote to just vote  
so [registrations] are perhaps a a problem also  
and we're the mobile mobile society uh  
people are always you know  
one out of every seven people moves every year  
uh that is almost a fourteen percent turnover every   you know  
if you [compound] that that uh eh  
if it is difficult to register to vote that would remove your [eligibility] to vote  
well  
well maybe that is another factor the motivational factor  
the motivational factor is probably  
i  
well that's [diminished] by  
we have noticed this in particular  
i i'm just read two books  
one of them is whose stars and [stripes] now  
the uh trivial pursuit of the presidency in nineteen eighty eight  
it's a fairly decent book  
i mean   it's uh it's [preceded] by uh several other books by these guys  
uh wake me up when it's over was about the eighty four elections  
and i forget what the other books were  
but any case uh it is uh uh the  
uh uh there was uh  
blue smoke and mirrors was the one in eighty two  
uh they these guys uh have taken the place of [theodore] white on reporting elections  
in any case they say that uh there's a definite trend uh well you know toward candidates using negative voting  
it is the only way that you can use television effectively  
no  
the public   would rather hear something negative about the other guy uh than than a positive factor  
and and you know  
to if you if you go on the attack and put some sensational thing before the public as mike dukakis learned in the last campaign  
and it is not [refuted]  
people will you know uh believe it  
if you don't refute it as he didn't there must be some truth   to the matter see  
well he didn't refute it til the last two weeks of the campaign  
he didn't believe anybody would believe that  
and indeed his trend started [upward]  
well they do  
well don't give too much credit to the american public for their motivational ability  
and and and it  
well it uh  
well i don't know  
is it working  
i mean that's that's the question  
i guess the question also is that we discovered is that they don't throw [rascals] out  
everybody seems   disappointed  
but they don't throw the rascal out their own rascal  
uh my my solution to to part of this is is to to make it an an economic incentive for people to vote  
that sounds rather crass i think because   then then you are saying well uh you   know y y it could be [convoluted] in many ways where people would actually uh by paying them  
i mean you know you would take a certain amount off their income tax or property tax or whatever  
but it would be very difficult to administer because i am sure that any time money and votes are involved  
it just the whole thing   just stinks  
yeah  
but the idea is to get the individual to the polls and we have to make it as easy as possible for him to get to the polls  
oh you mean the special interest groups  
well read my lips and and and no new taxes  
and yet bush did that  
but i mean but   but he's excused from that  
generally people i've read polls now where they've excused him because there was a a definite necessity to balance the budget  
oh he he he gave it  
he did   he did he promised the best he could  
and he is the president  
and he should he should address those problems  
and if there needs to be a change in a period of time  
what was so funny about it is that i guess that it happened so rapidly you know  
he knew it  
he actually knew it  
and being   associated with government he should be held up to the light for that  
and maybe   he will  
but i think it is er r r  
i mean   i think you you still have a view that the american voter is different from other voters  
and he is motivated because we happen to be the cradle of liberty and all that  
i think voters are motivated uh  
well i don't know if they have higher turnouts   overall  
i don't think england has  
i think england has about a seventy percent sixty five percent turn out  
i think that we just discovered in this in in the indian elections is one of the greatest   greatest and massive things in in the world  
uh just it was got more violent every year  
they went down almost fifty percent in this election before they blew up   [ghandi] but   simply because people were so   concerned about their [inability] that to that their vote does not count any way   and the corruption of politics in in in that situation there  
but but you know everything is relative to when uh eh you know we had higher turnouts because at that time we talk about the turnout relative to the eligible voter right  
i mean is  
but but before these enormous before this voting rights act what we had was a a great deal of our population uh mainly the blacks in the south and the   hispanics were [precluded] by   by uh voting laws uh from from their [eligibility] to register  
now everybody is available  
so if you really [computed] it they probably  
when we said we had a seventy percent turnout in nineteen fifty we really only had a fifty percent turnout  
because all the eligible   voters  
you know it was [skewed]   by the eligible voters being less than the total population of  
no  
i think the there's a higher percentage in in certain black areas of voters  
i don't know about hispanics you know  
i just   i i mean i haven't studied the statistics well enough to  
i mean i think in this sort of   conversation we can only do our own reaction  
uh_huh  
what do you mean  
you know karen i wonder if we are recording  
i did press one  
but usually by this time they tell me that the time is up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what  
right  
right  
oh really  
they hold it on the weekends  
sunday  
uh_huh  
huh  
well uh  
i i know here in dallas that they have just instituted in the last couple of years a uh a real long period of time that you can absentee vote before the elections  
and they i do not think they have seen a really high   improvement  
no  
no  
i always vote  
oh really  
huh  
to absentee vote specifically  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but i do not think it is difficult enough to prevent people who are motivated in the first place   who or who are not just motivated who really believe that their they their voice is heard  
i mean and the people that i have talked to  
right  
i think that is the biggest one  
that's the biggest problem  
i  
uh_huh  
oh really  
huh  
i don't understand that  
why do uh is that just because they have such a low opinion of the public and the public's uh   [gullibility]  
well he did refute it  
he he [refuted] it  
it just was not effective enough to  
well that see i i didn't believe anybody would believe that either  
i i i guess i   have a hard time coming to terms with the the fact that the american public really was you know so  
well then how can a democracy work then  
how how can it work  
right  
right  
what  
huh  
well   how about how about the reverse of that  
when i have heard about [england's] elections they are allowed to run for what a total of six or eight weeks even for the higher offices in the in the land  
what if we totally took money out of the eh just severely limited the campaigns so money wasn't so much of an issue  
i feel like if   if we did that people would have a lot higher confidence that their vote was counting rather than their contributions would count  
i don't i don't care how easy it is for them  
i do not think they are going to because they do no think that their that anybody listens to their vote  
they think whoever has the  
they really think that the packs you know no matter what you're promised during a campaign  
and these days we are promised hardly anything of substance  
right  
and eh and eh no matter what a a candidate promises during the campaign which isn't very much  
any they do not promise anything specific these days  
but whatever you are promised they just they just reverse themselves depending on who pays them what once they get into office  
i mean i think that's the  
yeah  
yeah  
well then why did he say that during his campaign  
then he  
it was totally  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
what about what about voters in the other countries that you were talking about  
like in the european countries where they have higher turnouts and well the newer [democracies]  
because it's going to be totally different  
but  
you do not think so  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
oh really  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
oh i see  
because right  
weren't  
were [disqualified]  
but isn't that isn't that kind of a blanket racist kind of thing to say the blacks and hispanics and other minorities just don't vote  
or is that just the the truth  
yeah  
well   right  
right  
but you know that just made me think of something that happened down here in dallas last year  
they have this huge fight going over [redistricting] here  
and at one point they they took another vote on it  
and they uh the minorities could not get enough of a vote out to to pass their plan  
and this is something that had been going on for months  
it was on the news every night  
they and they have had lawsuits over it  
i mean it was it was a major issue  
and there still wasn't enough minority vote to get to pass the plan that they were backing  
so that's  
you know i think that you have really hit on something there  
to say that uh those  
well with the minorities and we are saying we have lower voter turnout  
maybe it is is uh now that we have minorities included in the  
why  
did you not press one  
well well pat did you vote in the last election  
oh you did  
oh that's great  
well why do you think   people don't  
that makes sense too  
and  
then does  
yeah  
i think i think that's a lot of people  
just indifferent  
i know that   i've moved around a lot  
in the past um three years i've had three different addresses  
each time i change jurisdictions or whatever  
so i just haven't  
because i mean graduate school or whatever  
so i haven't kept track of it  
i did when i lived steadily in one community i always i voted  
but this past time i didn't  
well actually i voted it for the presidential election  
but then i didn't vote   uh i guess in the two year for uh some legislators and things  
and  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and that's probably one reason why i voted in the   the last election but not really this one  
because this one really didn't matter that much  
yeah  
it's probably true  
well you know they also say that most people vote their local politics that that local is far much more important than uh national   issues  
uh_huh  
right  
oh i definitely think so  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
most now  
that's true  
prepare them to be   victims  
yes  
uh_huh  
right side   of the tracks  
yeah  
uh_huh  
did they  
uh_huh  
yeah  
did um did you think  
i know that texas's last gubernatorial uh election probably brought out a lot of voters  
did that did that seem to  
because that that got national attention national attention i guess having a woman governor   running against a man and whatever  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know what's funny up here uh i live i see a lot of virginia news  
and i guess uh senator [robb] and governor wilder   are active right here  
and they have some type of wire [tapping] problem   going on  
and the people in virginia are complaining  
see [robb] is married to [lynda] bird johnson  
and the people in virginia are complaining that he is he's using texas politics in virginia  
and they're really complaining big time  
because they said that we don't have that type of trashy politics up here like they do in texas all the time  
so you you guys were getting   yeah  
you were getting [slandered] i think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do the most good  
yeah  
that's true  
i guess that's why  
i know that um i'm previously from pennsylvania  
and dick [thornburg] who's now the attorney general   is going to run for senator   because uh john heinz a senator from pennsylvania died in an airplane crash  
and i know that they're expecting a gigantic turn out to [landslide] dick [thornburg] into as into the senate   because they don't like the the [governor's] political [appointee] or whatever  
and they're almost expecting [landslide]   out uh turn out right now   for for that election  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what  
in texas  
was that when you  
that's that's true  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's perception  
that's true  
because the those were big political that was a big um turn out   election  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think that also happened with ronald reagan  
he was   he was [landslided] in  
and people really saw that was  
most [assuredly]  
yes ma'am  
i've voted in every major election since i turned twenty one  
don't always   vote for somebody  
i sometimes vote against somebody  
i think that a lot of it is uh  
i know that my late husband was simply indifferent  
he didn't feel like he had any say  
there was too many people too many other votes  
for example you know he'd say well look you and i see different sides of the fence  
if i go vote you'll cancel my vote  
i said i sure will  
he said so i just won't vote  
i said then mine counts   because you could cancel mine too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well [characteristically] in some in the local elections   typically those people who vote are those who feel very strongly about an issue  
if i do not feel very strongly about an issue then i see no reason to go vote  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well of course of course listening to government the instructors you'll find out that everything matters  
but then you could go crazy worrying about everything  
well   that's the way you get to national  
and that's the way you make changes about   your neighborhood  
uh i know that i have been involved in preparing and in in uh carrying out a lot of the local petitions that take place  
even something so simple as getting a street light in between   lights on the end of the block  
but it makes a big difference when it's the difference in having a child run over   in the dark  
and uh it took a close call to wake us up and cause us to take   that kind of action  
and that's completely unnecessary  
in another particular case they were trying to put in a um senior [citizen's] home   in in an area very near our neighborhood  
but if you just cross that major street the character of the neighborhood changes  
and it's less [savory]  
okay  
and that i was just very i felt very strongly about that  
those people simply did not have access to safety to security  
and they were at risk  
and it was for elderly people who lived alone  
and they were going to put a cluster of of houses there for them  
but even [clustering] together for the elderly does not ensure safety  
and all it all it did was to in my judgment make them   easier targets  
uh_huh  
yeah  
easier targets  
and so we we did get a [petition] together  
and we very strongly resisted it  
and it was placed in a actually it was placed clear closer to my neighborhood  
but it was on the   right side of the street  
and uh it it i think that they're they're much more comfortable there  
uh i haven't seen too much crime in my neighborhood  
although we have a good crime watch program  
but it's it's very serious   just across the street  
well  
well  
no  
i don't think it had to do to with woman running against man  
i think it had to do with dirt running against [dirtier]  
and that's it  
it was a dirty election  
people were calling each other uh names and every bit of the trash  
it was a it was a dirty campaign  
it was a dirty mud [slinging] campaign  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well   of course now that's not all the time  
we've had some pretty   we were having some pretty healthy   uh campaigns that were based on issues there for two or three of the gubernatorial races  
but i historically texas has had mud and [muddier] campaigns  
i mean it's just i think that eventually you know the better people have [sensibilities]  
and they vote on those people who are least likely to do damage  
unfortunately that's not always the way it should be  
you don't want to vote for the person who is least likely to do damage  
you want to do the one who can do the most good  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
so you   so you see  
that's very negative motivation   isn't it  
isn't that too bad  
we really could use a little positive motivation  
hey we think this guy can really make some changes  
and we're going to support him  
that was true in a lot of cases in in a couple of the older sixties campaigns  
uh  
no  
i'm talking about national campaigns  
yeah  
uh even when john kennedy was elected there were so many strikes against him  
but there were people who believed he could make a difference  
now that's not to say what has [transpired] or what really was  
i'm saying   that's how it was perceived  
and uh  
oh yeah  
absolutely  
and and it was people going to vote for i think more than those who voted against  
i know i know that in my own uh area of people whom i knew and how they were going to vote they didn't go to vote against uh a politician as they did a little bit later when [nixon] was running  
they went to vote against the less of lesser of the two evils in certain cases  
but i think that one was one that   you had some very strong feelings among people  
and they voted their convictions  
absolutely  
you're right  
yeah  
are you there  
okay  
do you know the question for today  
and what is your feeling  
do you think this is vital important  
okay  
do you  
i   it i have worked in some campaigns  
and it's the most discouraging thing in the world  
i'm originally from oklahoma  
and up there if they miss three elections then they have to [reregister]  
and i have often wondered if if maybe that would help the situation  
i don't know  
well can you come up with anything else that maybe we could do to these people  
oh that's all right  
well  
i'm i'm not  
the only thing is if they don't vote they have no right to complain  
it is um  
i don't know why we are so complacent  
but i'm going to vote each time  
right or wrong i'm going to cast a ballot  
and then if i'm unhappy with it i have the right to express my opinion  
so uh there was something else i was going to  
and i'm like you  
i've just lost a train of thought that i had  
but they have been more little more effective in oklahoma with having this program that you vote or you lose it  
no  
three  
you have to you have to skip three  
and uh of course those can be they can be oh a long time apart  
but um  
of course  
what do you think and this is not one of our questions but what do you think of this no excuse absentee [balloting]  
okay  
i'm sure all over the state of texas now you have three weeks to go for absentee [balloting]  
and you don't have to be sick out of town or anything  
they there is no excuse  
anyone can go and vote  
do you  
but that is an excuse and that would i could live with  
but this idea of anyone  
i i am so [bitterly] opposed to this  
if you're busy that has always been a legitimate excuse   if you are incapacitated ill health  
but to have the expense of  
let's see  
they have five six people at my [polling] place  
they can come from all over the city  
and i don't know why we couldn't have duplicate voting on some of this  
yes  
i know  
but is there is every list checked as thoroughly as a  
you know we  
back in  
when i lived  
yes  
uh yes  
it's about why there aren't more people that are voting and participating in  
oh absolutely  
um i think that uh it's kind of discouraging to uh  
i have been involved in some political campaigns and that kind of thing  
and it's really discouraging to be in a phone bank and call people and not  
a lot of them are so ill informed they have no idea you know even that there's an election  
or   and these are people that are registered  
well that's a thought  
huh  
i don't know  
i i like that idea  
um oh i had a thought just a second ago  
but it slipped my mind  
um one thing that that i think probably one of the reasons that people don't vote more is because they don't know the candidates  
and i think sometimes you know  
that's one thing that i have learned in working in elections and things is you know sometimes even when you work for someone you don't really know what they're like  
i know there's been a couple of people that we voted for and worked for  
and when they got in office it was just a disaster  
uh and and i'm not sure how you go about really finding out what people are really like before you vote for them  
absolutely  
that's right  
now if you just lose if you just skip one election  
three  
uh_huh  
i think that's an excellent idea because then people really have to think about it  
no excuse  
uh i'm not sure if i'm familiar with that   or not  
uh_huh  
oh i think that's great  
um  
actually you know my husband has run for office before  
and sometimes it's nice to be able to go ahead of time and vote because you know if you're going to be tied up that day uh [campaigning] or whatever it might be um that kind of just kind of takes that load off you know  
you can just go ahead and get that taken care of  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well hopefully once they have uh you know once they've checked them off the list  
they they do have to check them off a list   when they vote  
so hopefully they couldn't  
and i have to admit that we just moved to plano recently and that i hadn't voted in an election yet  
and although i did go down and register and i  
that's the first time i've ever done that  
has what's been your voting experience  
well do you feel like uh  
i mean i  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
that's really true  
that's kind of the way i have felt  
i i also feel guilty uh not knowing and not going the extra mile myself and studying out the issues and studying out the candidates  
course we only have mostly the representation given in the media  
but uh i have felt since i've been here that i haven't known what the issues were and that i because it was a new community  
uh_huh  
it does  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
no  
right  
uh_huh  
yes  
and uh and uh i also feel especially in the presidential elections that uh since we're back on the old system of electoral votes and or that and that you don't necessarily your vote doesn't necessarily elect president  
right  
and it's   kind of  
it's awful  
and and it's hard to feel like one person  
but i know that it's important  
and i feel guilty that i haven't done that here haven't taken the time  
and i know that you know people can make a difference  
but it's hard to to face the corruption like you say and uh and to know what you're up against  
and it makes me feel bad that  
i'm glad  
i mean i am thankful for the uh  
nineteenth amendment is it that gives women the right to vote  
and uh   i'm glad that that   happened and everything  
and i hope that i will become a better make a better difference in  
but i haven't done that so far  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and it's not very likely  
i mean it seems like  
my voting experience  
i i well personally i've been very diligent   until recent years   when i felt my vote was absolutely kind of washed down the drain  
for the issues that you know that i felt really strong for uh i think apathy has set in to a lot of people   because of the way our politicians are and the way our country is being run  
you really do have to study to get yourself uh up to par with what is truly going on  
and that takes a lot of research  
and   and people today are very busy  
and   uh and that is an excuse because we are we are always uh  
i know i'm heavily involved in other things  
and and to take time out and uh study the issues in depth would take quite a bit of time  
and i don't have the time to devote to that  
and uh you hopefully find that you want the candidates that are running to be honest and [aboveboard]  
and unfortunately they are not  
and uh it's really a dilemma uh that we find ourselves in i believe uh  
so i kind of just have taken a back step away and uh hopefully that someone will clean up the mess that's there  
take it  
because it is a task that is to me kind of overwhelming  
right  
they just want to see how close the electoral votes are with the public votes  
yeah  
yes  
well i know that when you're in a smaller community  
i live in mesquite  
and uh when we have uh a local election say for our mayor and so forth   they really uh give a lot of information in the local newspaper not in the not in the bigger city dallas newspaper  
i mean they they just give it a small portion of the newspaper  
but the local newspaper really goes into uh quite a bit of history about the candidate  
and uh and then they have they raise a they raise two sides  
and uh there's a pro and a con side  
and uh you can really uh feel comfortable in uh [evaluating] that uh candidate by uh that method  
uh i feel pretty confident about the way it's put forth  
now i wouldn't say that about the larger cities   though and the and the country on like the presidential  
uh i mean they've got people that are running that are admitted uh criminals and admitted   crooks  
you know i'm sorry  
but i don't believe in them turning a good uh uh a new leaf   unless they have the lord that has done that to them  
and uh without the lord they can't do it  
twenty minutes
that's it
i don't work
nope
i'm just one of those housewives my husband and my father both work at t i in sherman
so
oh goodness
oh i i can't really say
i haven't listed them or anything
yeah
i've enjoyed them
so it really
yeah
okay
by the way you don't sound like you're from dallas
that's why i didn't think
you don't sound you sound like you're from the north
that's why i didn't think you
oh really
well that's why i picked it up
yes
you have you have a northern accent
well not
i didn't say new england
but i could definitely tell your from the north
yeah
well you never i don't think you ever lose that that which you begin with
you're still i myself am a native texas
you can never as a native texan you can never become a texan unless you were born here
where was i i was born in dallas
so i've been i've been in this area for most all my life
oh yeah
they have much more of a twang down in that area
okay
well yes
i have um i was in the military for a while
and it really bothered me to think that people that are affected so you know so closely by you know that it comes so close to home as far as the government you know because they are so directly connected with it
and yet so few of them were registered to vote
and and it really really used to bother me
and then and then i'd hear complaints about this and that that was happening to those of us in the military the cuts and things like that
and i would be like well are you registered to vote
have you you know made any uh changes you know as far as your voting habits on you know who you're voting for
and what you're looking for
and uh no
they'd say no
and i'd be
well then shut up you know you don't really have much you don't have much that you can say
yeah
you vote
absentee yeah
you vote you're still connected to your state legally you still are responsible for paying those taxes they withdraw taxes
for that state if like in texas we don't
yeah
but if you are they withdraw that from your pay
and uh you can be
you can be uh have suits brought against you as if you were from that state
yeah
so you are attached to that state from which you came from
to voting uh_huh
uh_huh
i think i think sometimes that you um you pick you become more aware of what you have
and how important it is to you you become more [loyal] so to speak to the things that you don't have at that time
and you realize hey my you know we really have a good thing there
so i think you hold more dear the things like democracy and your rights you know as an american citizen
but i think uh the people that i've talked to as far as voting because i've worked you know in trying to get people to vote
when i was in the military
i was a uh represented uh people as far as voting from what i spoke speaking with people it was mainly that um they felt frustrated that their one vote wasn't going to do any good you know that uh
and and it was really hard to get across to them that it didn't matter you know it's a matter of that's your right
you should go and do it you know and that your one vote can count when you get a whole lot of if everybody says oh well my vote doesn't count you know then then what do you have
yeah
yeah
well you can make a big difference in those
and it's more to home a lot of the time
yeah
isn't that ridiculous
yeah
but don't you think anyway that's kind of a cop out
i mean it still is your responsibility
and and nowadays they do have more information that you can become aware of
and there are things like the league of women voters or some of the other groups that you know put give out uh [nonbiased] information
just general information on how the candidates stand on certain issues that you know you can make a decision on how you feel about certain issues and who you want to represent you
and so i really don't i don't agree that you have too many choices that you know it's it's too hard
and i think that people are just lazy
i think they don't want to get out
oh really
yeah
yeah
yeah
how many times have you called
or or participated
okay
i i'm a little less than that i was going to call this week
i forgot about it just until i was going to do it tonight
uh i have i was i called
i think every day last week
and i forgot about this week i got so tied up with some other things
i got about ten i think
voting
oh yeah
i'm sure
i would think they would talk about people who are already registered
and and uh you know the ones that are on the rolls already you know
i'm amazed myself sometimes i've got some ideas and they've tried a few things
but yeah
you've heard
yeah
yeah
yeah
i i'm kind of with you
in fact i even think that the there's a i wouldn't call it a conspiracy
but you know if you really wanted you know hundred and hundred million people to vote why would you have voting from seven o'clock in the morning to seven o'clock at night for a national election to me you need to have two what's wrong with having two days uh thursday friday or three two and a days thursday friday and saturday or something you know where people can vote
uh i don't think there's a i don't think there's a lot of politicians want a heavy vote out because uh i can agree in local elections which usually are on saturdays and i'm not too sure that's the best idea
i think maybe you should have it you know friday noon until saturday
so that people who i like to do things during the week and i might do it
and i i really think that they don't try you know i i really think it's obvious the answers to me is just to have longer you know have at least two days for a national election my goodness
right
right
right
well yeah
the seven o'clock in the morning to seven o'clock at night is is usually the average time that most workers go to work you know
and i'm amazed by that that uh the only good thing
they've done lately is have these uh uh elections uh what do they call it when you can vote ahead of time uh uh absentee and i've done that
and actually we've got some high turn outs here in arlington on some of the absentee because you can
vote like two saturdays before or something like that
but i think it's amazing that they they keep complaining about people not voting and and national elections should be more than one day i mean i don't see how you can have tens of or hundreds of thousands of people that you know just can't quite make it on that particular day for one reason or another you know two days to me doesn't seem to be too unrealistic for a national election
right
yeah
the bonds we had some here in arlington recently
but
yeah
i i don't really know why you have uh uh you know in a small city or whatever medium size city you have a couple hundred thousand people eligible you know
and you get ten thousand to vote
i don't have an answer for that
i think that uh it is apathy without question
uh we are we are not taking it as serious as the people who have lost their rights and everything overseas and everything
and i think uh i don't know how to change that
i always try to vote for those
and but i
and there are some that if when they have them on saturday i'll say all right
i'm going to work
i'm going to go vote this afternoon
and then i'll get busy
and if no one reminds me then i will forget
so i'm not too sure course i guess that's part of being apathy too
but i do try to vote in every one
but uh
i don't i don't have an answer for the local elections and why you have ten percent of the people voting that's really so low
i'm amazed
oh that too
that too
yeah
yeah
but i think in national elections uh again it should be the time is definitely against the people i think you ought to have two days
you're voting for president uh why is it
so [sacred] to have it on tuesday and uh why couldn't it be friday and saturday
i don't know what the ideal day is if you're trying to catch a weekend or maybe just tuesday and wednesday i'll bet you'd get a lot more people i think the news media has really
they jump in there
and they uh tell you the the that who won before seven thirty and before the before the polls are closed
and i think they jump in way way too early
i think that ought to be restricted somehow
uh they will not restrict it
but they just ought to not release i don't know
i don't know what districts are releasing the numbers to these newsmen that they can predict uh i i thought the polls had to be closed before you were allowed why would you release it to the newsmen first
i i don't even know how the news media get these numbers from the polls i would think that ought to be [sacred] and and until it's all over
that primary uh yeah
i don't
yeah
well i think you can say you are an independent too
but i don't know uh yeah
i haven't thought about that much
i i've uh wondered about it
but i haven't really got concerned about it
one way or another you know
uh what that holds back or anything
but you're right
it it that is a funny rule at least uh men and women can vote
it's amazing that we can still look overseas and see you know this thing in saudi arabia and all
and they still don't allow women to vote
it is still amazing
of course we we don't have such a wonderful history that you know we didn't allow blacks to vote
uh and we didn't allow women to vote until i don't even know what the year was for women
nineteen nine or something like that when was that
so well we're changing at least at least we're trying and and maybe this absentee thing will will take ahold and uh get more people to vote
um hum
yeah
i don't know why
well i think it ultimately i could see why you wouldn't register necessarily when you're eighteen or nineteen because you don't get around to it
but i i think that people should register you know after a year or so
i don't
it's not really that hard
uh i haven't thought that people don't vote because they're not registered
i really think uh course that's apathy too
you don't bother to register uh i am amazed
i don't have an answer for why the numbers are so low
yeah
i think you've got to have a good fight
you know you have to have a lot of controversy right
or if it's close
you know you like to see them close you don't like to see someone just totally run away with it
and in in a football game or anything
even if you're for one team or the other
you always like to see
let's have a good game which means you want to see a close game
you know
so if there's no controversy if you're not worried about who's going to win if you think it's going to be a [shoo] in then uh you know you don't vote
so uh but at least i guess we're so far ahead of some of the other countries uh that we've still got a better system and and we are we have been doing this for two hundred years
so uh i guess it's still better that a lot of others
yeah
yeah
it is surprising how uh uh even with low numbers uh
yeah
well i here in arlington
we had this baseball thing
and it was a big controversy and everyone was talking about it yet the voting was so low
it was unbelievable
and they were spending a lot of money
you would have thought we would have had close to half of the people in the city voting for this that was going to raise your taxes and it was like twenty five thousand or something like that you know
so that part of it is still uh there's something that people for some reason they don't really want to vote uh
and maybe maybe absent maybe you ought to be able to do it on your telephone you know i mean i don't know
yeah
and it may come to that you know with the electronic age yeah
you put in your
okay
where are you from
oh is that where you're talking from
oh i can tell from your accent
i'm from louisville kentucky
but i'm here in texas
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you vote regular okay
uh_huh
well i
uh i need to get into voting
i've never voted no
i've never voted i've never felt comfortable enough with it
i don't know enough about politics to know what the right choice is anyway
even local candidates it just
i talked about this the other day on the telephone with it's uh so many politicians you know they put up a front to me you know they're not showing you the real person anyway they're just showing what the public wants to see
uh_huh
well that would be nice
yeah
right
right
well that's what i mean it's you don't know what's real
i guess
i don't know much about that at all
what do you mean like when you vote for a certain thing
not a person
i don't think
no
i've never voted on anything like that either
uh_huh
well see i've never uh how do you do the
do you do that like you're voting just like if you're taking a a presidential election do you just go somewhere and place your ballot
or
huh well see i've never heard of well i know that sounds stupid
but i really haven't
i've never heard of that
i'm no
i'm in denison texas up north
in on in the north part of texas
right
i moved from kentucky
when i was twenty one
right
i grew up in louisville
yeah
it's a fairly big city
denison
it's uh i wouldn't say it's large
but it is one of the bigger cities in this part of texas
right
it's about the same
no
i remember once when i was a working in louisville one of the mayor candidates come up to the uh uh place where i was working
and he had asked me i don't know
i guess it had been about two years since i'd been eligible to vote
and i haven't hadn't been voting
well he had uh this is one of the things that you know formed my opinion on politicians he sat there and promised you know the next day
we're going to take you up and get you registered to vote
and you're going to vote for me
and blah blah blah but then he never showed up you know
it was one of his aides or whatever
but still i thought you know they say what they want to for the time being what sounds good
yeah
uh_huh
well that's i think they need to have a a better oh i need to know a lot more about politics
and they need to have something in the community well like in high school they should teach politics or the government
i mean i think so
uh_huh
well i want to know about politics in particular you know just you know what the [workings] of it is
everything right in order for me to be able to form a a good opinion on who to vote for or whatever
i i need to know about it
you know
and if i could keep a follow up on the candidates running like right now you know i know whose president vice president and i know a couple of the mayors like [koch] in new york
i don't even know who's mayor down here in texas
off hand
uh_huh
so much
well what do you think i think you know anybody should be allowed to run for president just even an ordinary guy off the street if he knows the politics
right
it's it's that's what i mean it's all money
and
yeah
uh_huh
what did you think of that whole mess with [ollie] north and all that
uh reagan and bush
and
oh of course he did
he should have looked into it
right
or it should have been looked into more
yeah
well that's the way i felt when uh carter and reagan was running
i liked carter as a president
uh yeah
but he was a i don't know
he was a good christian and everything though
well from what i've seen
i was only sixteen then
but uh when reagan came in
i i thought it ran through my head that carter lost because the hostages you know that whole mess
wasn't it the day after reagan was elected that they were brought home or
yeah
shortly after i think a lot of people were disappointed because they had been held [hostage] for so long
but is a lot enough people
no
but if enough people think like that then it does you know
well if i knew more about it
like i said if they would get some kind of educational program out there where just anybody can learn
oh i'm sure they do
i don't know i could check into that
right
well wasn't it
i know i can't remember
i guess it was when ferraro is that
her name
when her and uh i can't remember who was running for president with her
i just remember she was going to be vice
okay
how did you find out about this
from texas
oh
yes
uh_huh
uh why we think there's such a uh low turn out
okay
well i think there's a uh multiple reasons i think first of all a lot of people are fed up
and they think they don't really their vote doesn't count
and second of all a lot of people just aren't educated to you know that they should do that they should participate
right
we had uh city [councilman] that won by like a handful of votes you know
ten votes or something
so that would have made a big difference if people had turned out for his opponent and i think another reason sometimes it's inconvenient
the hours especially in a presidential election
i don't know why it couldn't go on for several days or why we couldn't even phone in our vote you know
you can you can uh now the colleges you can register over the phone
i don't see why we couldn't vote over the phone
you know i mean computers and all
oh you don't do that up there
i mean you don't
register for college there they're doing that all over the phone now down here
at the big at the big schools
now what city
are you in
really
oh my
that's interesting
right
just a difference of five or ten
that uh
right
we could use our social security number or something
there ought to be some way that they could safe guard it
but uh especially presidential because you know
sometimes you do have to stand in line for a long time
oh that's a a interesting point
i have no uh no idea
i wonder
uh_huh
that's true
i know a lot of them that don't vote
uh because my i have a twenty year old
and i know a lot of her friends don't vote
and uh i go to school right now
and i i've heard kids say they don't vote
i guess
well they don't really read the newspaper much
i you know at that age i can remember being in college
the first time
and i was a journalism major
and i hardly ever read the paper
i mean it's [appalling] when i look back
but you know i think that may be part of it too
they're not really informed
that's true
that's very true
i've heard people on talk shows
say that they feel that that's a statement when they don't vote at all
right
cop out
yeah
i think so too
i know even if you're voting against somebody more than for someone which i usually am nowadays
in the national elections it seems
uh i don't know when when i voted for somebody with great enthusiasm it was a long time ago
uh_huh
no
you you punch something out
uh_huh
oh no
i've never seen one like that
oh
oh
right
well we have uh where you fill it in with the lead pencil and and the machine counts it
that's really fast too
well
right
like a [scantron] you know they call it that goes through the machine
i half the tests
i take in school now are that way
so easy i just stick them in this machine and get the number out you know
right
right
well um in i think what it is in this country is that we have this uh despite all the complaints we have about government we essentially have a great deal of faith that despite uh any election things really aren't going to change dramatically
based on any given election
and there really no one gets all excited over politics uh over the the you think of some countries where they've changed uh um you know have a a coup or some form of government there may change uh every few years
like an example would be the south american governments
but here it's it's very stable
and uh you there's nothing really to get all that excited over
but maybe people should get a little excited and make some changes
right
right
yeah
people will vote presidential elections
um you know a local election that may have some great import
but uh you know over all people don't have a whole lot to to worry about when it comes to politics
yeah
right
yeah
well that that's just it
i'm i'm twenty four and i'm in the military
and uh i'm uh uh registered to vote in pennsylvania
and i only voted once it was in uh last presidential election
you know
and it was just because you know it's too much of a hassle to get the absentee ballot or even to to drive back there which is what i did that time
i actually went and visited my folks and voted the same time
but uh
um in my position
i well in addition to that the local political scene
i don't know enough about it any more to even feel that my vote means anything
because i don't know the the candidates um
right
yeah
right
right
but i i think um that's all things that it's all my own [laziness] though
because first of all i should take the time to find out about the candidates i probably should talk to my mom and dad who do live there and get a feeling for what uh for what they are you know have been doing
and uh avoid what they feel the candidates are doing and uh um maybe do a little looking into it myself
it's not like any of this is any big secret
but it's just a question of taking the time
and it's there're higher priorities right
right
david duke yeah
yeah
it was interesting
there was quite a few people in this area that had contributed to his campaign
and i'm in upstate new york
and this is kind of a red neck area
but the
local newspapers um printed they somehow got a list of all of [duke's] contributors
and they printed a list in the newspaper everybody that gave money to that campaign
you want to talk about
getting getting even with them
uh that was i thought that was beautiful justice
what's that
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
you know people you think about having somebody like that in power
and uh you know and that shocks them all
but then uh flip side is the same people go around
um [harboring] their own racist racist practices and you know you ask those same people
um how they treat people and all that
and you probably would not get a very favorable answer out of them
but the idea
the merit the thought of somebody who [publicly] was a member of the [ku] [klux] [klan] is pretty [repulsive] being in a position of power like that
so
what we can do to make it better
right
that that's hard because um i thought in the last not this last year's election
but the one a year ago that they were going that there was going to be some serious turn around of the incumbents and all that that people were finally fed up
to do for voting
one of the biggest [stumbling] block is at first getting registered
isn't that what you have now in oregon you have the booklets
yep
and each uh party or whatever against and for the proposition or
but excuse me
uh well back
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i i understand that giving the pros and cons and being informed
but i was thinking also uh you can you should have voter registration by phone things like that
yeah
well you you know a lot of places do it by mail
but a lot of people don't get to the step of putting it into the mail you know
and uh if you can do it from the phone and pick it up at any time twenty four hours a day and do it
that's that'll make
well well actually there's there are ways i mean if they can get the speaker identity [verification] those kind technologies out there
it would help
uh you know in terms of [verifying] who they are
and what they're saying
and and uh you know people could uh use that you know where do you live
yeah
all that stuff
yeah
they don't that which is a problem
and uh i don't know
i think uh that after you can also the problem is also uh motivating people to do it
seeing that their voting has an impact on the process and people frankly don't see any connection with what they they vote and what happens
so they very frustrated and they don't do anything
so there's learned [helplessness] type of you know no matter what i do
it's not going to help
so why bother uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i you know what i think also they should do is build in the process the election process is not just vote getting
i mean to get the candidates saying that not that their votes aren't any good unless they also motivate so many percent of the [populace] to vote they could be identified by them
so put it in the political process that that you know not only you have to get petitions in order to get on the ballot
but you have to attract you know you have to attract so many people just to come to the polls they don't have to vote for you
but they have to come to the polls and actually vote you know those something built into the system to motivate people to to bring them into the process especially the people who want to hold offices i mean that's what
uh this this year
uh i think it's interesting uh we i mean there's so many candidates still that uh we well there's uh we have uh uh clinton and uh uh brown of course yeah
and then uh i don't know if you've heard much about this other guy the independent perot that may be drawing some uh republican votes
and uh so it doesn't seem like george bush is completely locked up the republican although i think i don't
well i guess he has
but uh i don't know
i think that's i think that's hard to say i know uh clinton and brown are both trying to go after what whatever the block vote whatever
that's supposed to be
and uh i don't know
i i think it will be interesting
i know a lot of people have you know are are starting to are are more you know with the uh recession and everything
i think a lot more people are starting to uh become more politically actively i i think there will be more why what do you think
uh_huh
oh right
right
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
i agree
yeah
uh i yeah i definitely agree with you there
i mean it's people i mean that that don't care much about uh uh like federal things
or you know things you know uh like the deficit people who don't who don't really care about stuff like that really don't have any [clues] to what's going on like right
right in their own towns or counties or state or whatever
so yeah
i agree with you
yeah
i think people are even you know
yeah
yeah
you you'd think people would be more i don't know
because they're more in touch uh they're you know i mean uh [geographically] huh
exactly
sure
yeah
and i mean most of them are even you know you'll see them you know
however many times a year they're actually in your city you know in your neighborhood or whatever
but uh yeah
i yeah
it's interesting how that works
and people just i don't know
they just
uh yeah
yeah
yeah
i do vote
uh i know if i when i first registered uh i guess with the last election
uh i was uh in my late teens so i only really registered and voted for the uh who was that that was dukakis
and uh yeah dukakis and bush
i guess it was the last time
that was i guess that was the first presidential election i voted in
but uh at that time i was really a political i mean you know that like you say about uh local uh uh local politics i was just you know not in in touch at all
yeah
yeah
that's that's that's true
yeah
no
no
that's true
uh
campus yeah
yeah
yeah
that's that's that's another that's another thing too
yeah
well i'd say so sure
i i know
i've never voted in any of the just uh and why i i don't know
i just don't see any
i know uh i don't see any importance at all in my vote in the you know and that and that even
that smaller uh uh arena
of politics
i don't even see uh you know any kind of influence or anything or any you know uh uh but uh federally i i think everybody should be you know uh should definitely be uh uh aware of uh you know the presidential elections they should be you know uh
yeah
yeah
they they should participate uh you know
uh yeah
but but i i i think it'll be interesting to see you know uh i think the people that vote are the people who uh [gees] now that's hard to say it's hard to say who votes and and why uh
yeah
i mean
yeah
oh it is it is
and uh
alright
what do you think about it like well you can go first
wow
i dropped the phone
that was loud sorry
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
really
i think that that's a big part of it
i think that's probably the root and then also that added with all the pressures on the american family today it's a real it's a real pain for us to go vote
i mean i remember the last time that we had to go vote
it was like man just to get up there and do it was major effort you know
and we ran in there
it was like right at seven and my husband had worked late
and i was going to go we wanted to go together to do it and take our son
but it was like we ran in and whew we were the last people in there
and i thought you know kyle gets off usually about oh by five
but we live in [tarrant] county
and he drives from dallas
so you know it's a drive
but he still had a lot more cushion to be able to go vote a lot easier than most people you know what i mean and because he doesn't hit the north dallas traffic and all then he might have worked an hour late
it was just like ah
we had so many things to do
and we just couldn't get them done
and i i remember us thinking that man it
i'm a christian
and i really feel like we have a responsibility to vote
but i tell you what if i wasn't a christian i would there's no way i would have gone to vote
just because of the pressures the you know just the time factor
and just the anyway
and i felt like i was listening to [dobson] this morning
and i i guess i even thought that then this morning
so it's funny
i got this topic because there were talking about how the congress it pays the congress to make you know legislation that encourages women to work outside the home because then you have two people you can tax
and you put both of those people in a higher bracket and that it's probably not going to end anytime soon
the pressure you know to work and just the pressure it puts on the american family and um i i thought about that
and i said yeah that's funny you hardly have time to go vote for this congressman because you know women are expected to do so much now
and i just kind of laughed
and i thought god i never thought of it like that you know
so anyway i think that's the other side that
yeah
but i agree too with what everything you said
and then you put those two things together and you're going to have you know no one going to vote
but then um i don't know [disillusion] what's the solution i know now come on
uh_huh
but i think that
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
there's
yeah
i know they're i know you can't even spank your children these days without you know with this you know i don't know
we don't have we don't have a little child
but i know that when you go in a restaurant we had some foster twins
and it was last year
and it wasn't through the state
but boy [howdy] man these kids needed a whipping sometimes
not to be beaten not to be abused
but to firmly be told you are not going to do that
and you are not going to spit in my face i said no
and if you do that this is going to be the consequence but uh you couldn't do that even through the state even the it wasn't through the state
but even though um the mother really would given approval but because of the situation
we just didn't think it was wisdom you know you go in a restaurant and they start spitting their food out at the table
now come on
but you know you couldn't do really a lot because of the state's control
so that's that's a good idea
there too
i like that
but anyway you know
have you ever had a two year olds twins start spitting their food at you at luby's
you know i mean you're like going
uh_huh
uh_huh
you could go in the bathroom at luby's and take care of it
yeah
i did i stood there
and i did take care of it
it took forever though
and i think god just had some grace there because i don't think if it had been my child
i don't think that would have worked what i did in order to get them to eat that food you know
but it took like twenty five minutes
but it was the whole thing was the state
but i don't want to rewrite the constitution i just wish people
i wish it would be interpreted like the [founding] fathers wrote it to be interpreted by
right
our society is so messed up though it's like no wonder they interpret it wrong we were in dallas last night
and we ate dinner at [meadow] road and seventy five at a restaurant there
and i couldn't believe it it was like this kid was like saturday night live
we were the only normal seeming human people in the whole place almost
and i'm not kidding
and it's like these it's this it this
i told kyle i said if this is reflective of our society no wonder we are in such a mess
and you know
these were the rich people these were the you know these were
i mean just the things that happened
we had a [bulimic] in front of us she just looked crazy
but yet
she had money and um she was so friendly and i asked the manager as we checked out
i said is that lady a [ballerina] or what
and he goes he said no
she's a [bulimic] because she was so skinny
and then all these other people are coming up around us
and uh this one man they went to check on their ticket
and the other man at their table started taking their plates and and in fear just piling their food on his plate and [shoving] it in his mouth
i mean this was in one night and i was just sitting there thinking now
i
he did
it's like
uh no
he was sitting at the table with them another couple
right
but he took their plates up and made sure they didn't see him and i think he was the one i heard him mention about the tickets were messed up
so they went to take care of the tickets he took their plates and began eating his eating their food
i'm not kidding
my husband was like totally [freaking] out he said i can't believe it look at that
but and i you know what i mean they were right next to us
and it was obvious that they didn't know
and so
and he ate it all before they got back and everything
and so i just thought no
i don't know if there's an answer to the people not going to vote
when they when our society is falling apart like it is
i don't know if people
i know
yeah
i know
and they you know these are probably some of the lobbyists in washington
i can't help but think that either
is it
no
seriously because these were this was a nice north dallas
this was not
we weren't over on cedar springs or harry [hines] or anything you know
so anyway
i think our society is just worse off than i realized that's what i felt
we live in euless
now we don't see that in euless too much
but you know that's what it
i mean it was just absolutely
maybe it was just that night
right
but i don't think so
i have a feeling that's more reflective of our government and everything then
well there's your another call
well i think we had a good call and so
today as i understand it is less than half of all eligible voters participate in national elections
and less than that in local elections
and do you think that's a problem and do you have any or do we can we can come come up with any solutions for that
so if you're ready
we'll start
i participate in all of the national you know elections and the state elections that you know that affect me i'm sometimes not too good in local elections i do i do
you know vote in bond matters and uh things like that
but i don't i
no longer have children in school
so school board elections you know doesn't really
you know i don't really get terribly interested in that
but but i do try to i don't just vote to be voting you know i try to have you know educate myself a little bit
you know on the on the issues rather than just voting [blindly] you know
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
that's true
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i do too
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
that's true
uh less than half
less than half
i was kind of surprised to hear that
yeah
i thought it would have been higher than that
do you ever or have you ever or do you ever actively work for a candidate
uh_huh
well i've only done it one time way back when uh john [connally] was running for governor in the state of texas many years ago
my wife and i were pretty heavily involved in in working in his campaign
it's really interesting to do
it's hard work
but it it's interesting to do
but i haven't done any of it done any of it lately
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
it really is
yeah
yeah
it it's interesting to do
yeah
we did mailings put up signs you know and things like that
went to a few dinners things like it was interesting
it really was
of course it was all volunteer we weren't paid members
it was
interesting to do
i don't know
maybe it's you know better education
i don't know
i do believe that you know if you don't educate yourself and vote in this these elections whether it's you know local or national you pretty well you know deserve whatever you get
you know if you don't if you don't participate in it
i really don't know what the solution would be everybody or a lot of people thought when they ended the poll tax you know many years ago that that would bring out you know a lot of voters
i don't know maybe it
maybe it should be stressed through you know public education in schools
you know or something
i don't know
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i don't know really know what a solution would be
i really don't you know like you say if you if you do everything
but fill out the card for them
that's really about all you can do uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
some sort of educational process
i'm not quite sure
what
that's true
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i don't know either
it's kind of a tough question
don't really know what a real solution would be for it
except like you say some sort of an educational process
something to generate interest
i don't know quite what
i really don't know
well maybe some other genius can figure this out
i don't know
maybe so
yeah
right
yeah
well it's nice talking to you
take care
uh well how is it appropriate to be talking about exercise attitudes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you're a student  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh i'm i am a person who wishes i had more time to exercise  
i   i don't feel like i  
i don't very often do things for the sake of exercise  
i don't feel well unless i am exercising  
and i try to do things that involve exercise  
but i very rarely do things like um  
i've never done aerobics or any sort of structured  
this is my exercise time  
but i do lots of outdoor sports and things bicycling uh you know [mountaineering] a little [mountaineering] this and that  
and i spend a lot of time  
and i probably get more exercise than your average person  
but it's not a a structured sort of thing  
and i have to admit i have a certain resistance to the idea of exercising for [exercising's] sake  
and perhaps it's because somehow that [implies] to me it's not fun or something like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
is that why you like aerobics classes because you're not sort of someone else is doing the counting for you so   it makes it less of a chore  
yeah  
yeah  
would that we could  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
you can just trust someone else to give you full exercise  
and all you do is follow along and enjoy yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
well you're talking to someone from california where it's often swimming weather  
uh  
uh_huh  
so it's the it's it's the the well it's actually  
it's interesting because there are real regional differences  
um in california there's uh almost an assumption   um unless you're sort of clearly of an older generation or something you know in your sixties or something like that  
i'm i'm i'm not uh  
there's an assumption that you do something for your physical fitness and and at least in urban california  
and maybe not  
i don't know about rural california too well  
but in urban california it's just you know  
for all i know aerobics started out here  
i don't know where they actually started  
but they you know the craze really picked up big here  
and before that there was the running craze  
and they  
california gets you know tends to be a bit [faddish]  
but   the remarkable thing is how well the fads catch on elsewhere  
so there must be something to some of them  
and uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well there's a sense of it being a package  
i think there there is a sense of you know whole  
there's a lot of you know  
you'll get organizations like [institutes] for the whole health or whatever  
and uh-oh the the the university of california at berkeley puts out the [wellness] letter which is uh turned into a fairly well subscribed to uh newsletter   monthly or [biweekly] newsletter or something like that  
and and it doesn't deal with just exercise or just stress management or just diet or anything  
it it's on fairly solid scientific ground  
uh it's just [dispensed] with these [distinctions]  
it says all sorts of factors go into health and there's no reason to talk about one rather than another so that they they combined them all together  
and uh so it's had that orientation for quite some time  
um there's been some progressive medical schools out here   that have taken that approach  
and um  
boy  
yeah  
that  
there's a  
i i can say there's a correlation but i couldn't say which which caused the other  
they sort of you know each developed a little bit and then would feed off one another and develop a little bit more and a little bit more  
yeah  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
exactly  
and part of it is california   you know in back in the sixties had a lot of alternative movements  
and some of them [fizzled] out  
and some of them were disastrous  
and others of them um had an impact on the society around here  
and one of the ones that had an impact was uh people becoming interested in alternate practices  
i'm not sure if it was a [meditation] practice or if it was you know which is similar to a stress management practice or alternates to uh a m a approved medicine  
uh you have you know major um [acupuncture] schools and things out here  
and and you could have them around long enough  
and more and more people start believing them or wondering how to combine them with other things  
and before long you you get this this whole kind of [gestalt] this whole package of of health of health care and options  
and uh and exercise is is strongly considered one of them  
the [irony] is is its people in the cities in my experience that are most oriented towards doing the exercise  
and i guess because they spend all day in back of their [desks]  
the average person out on the farm at least traditionally now they drive fancy tractors as much as anything   but at least traditionally the [laborers]  
last thing  
pardon me  
oh like everything else  
yeah  
yeah  
the rat race to exercise  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i   i think so  
i mean you you've  
if you look at if you look at other cultures  
like i know a little bit about people who were considered very healthy in china  
and they don't do very much [vigorous] exercise at all  
but they do a lot of low keyed low impact low stress exercise  
and they combine it with a you know [meditation] or whatever some sort of relaxation  
and they seem pretty you know  
they don't have the hard body  
they don't have that perfect look  
and an awful lot of exercise is sort of image conscious  
but they you know they live to a hundred and ten some you know  
and that that's  
and a lot of that is diet  
that's true  
yeah  
i mean they eat they eat a lot of [carbohydrates] and not much fat   um for economical reasons not for preference  
um  
yeah  
am i actually  
i as am i  
yes  
it is in the urban areas  
yes  
most for example most restaurants in an urban area will have a little vegetarian section now  
well most most sort of modern looking restaurants will  
you can  
i was wondering that  
because i was actually applying for a job in texas  
and and and uh   it occurred to me  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we uh  
well uh my my husband is right now teaching an aerobics class  
he's an aerobics instructor and um is going to be uh entering north texas for uh a [kinesiology] program there  
and um the the  
how i met him was through uh the aerobics class that he used to teach  
yeah  
so   i'm i'm an avid aerobics uh person and just very very athletic  
enjoying a you know uh anything dealing with sports  
so and how do you feel about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i i've  
my  
that's the way my mother stands on it  
she feels like if it's something that you have to do you know   if you look at it as if you have to do it   then it becomes it becomes a chore  
and and she doesn't enjoy it when it's a chore  
so um and i feel that way too as far as you know just sitting and doing you know to the idea of doing fifty sit ups or something you know  
to  
you're a you know  
[calculated] down  
and do your [calisthenics]   you know three times a week  
or   but but i do try and um i do try and regulate how much exercise i get a week  
yeah  
and it's got  
and i've always enjoyed dance  
so it involves you know  
i i can't get out to dance all the time  
and  
yeah  
and it's and it's more regulated  
i mean you're you're using different parts of the body  
so it it is like dance  
and it's structured like that  
but you have the music and someone like you said someone else is counting   so it makes it easier for me  
and someone else is telling me okay you know let's move this way let's move that way   instead of me having to think about it so much  
yeah  
yeah  
but i'm like you  
i also um like to participate in uh things like  
well we just went to the uh [myererson] symphony run this past weekend  
and and that was a lot of fun  
and you get to meet different people   and um just get out you know   out and about  
and it's it it's something you can all  
like our  
we did it as a family  
so   it was it was quite a lot of fun  
and biking  
and i i i love to swim  
so i love it when you know it's swimming weather  
and uh  
oh  
i didn't realize that  
i'm sorry  
well i'm in texas  
i i just assumed that i had  
this is the first call i've done  
and i didn't realize that they were going to reach out to people from   all over the country  
you wouldn't know that  
oh i  
uh_huh  
well i think people are are more um um  
people from california seem to be more health motivated all around i mean as far as the diet and everything uh the diet and uh just your health consciousness  
and i mean it just   seems like uh a lot of those ideas generate out of california  
not just exercise but   health health related ideas  
and i  
it's curious i don't know why don't know if it's  
do you  
does california have a  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now do you think that's because they've realized that for whole health that the you know you have to have that combination or that people are motivated that way so that they've incorporated that into their program  
do you think the program came first or the  
yeah  
the more money they put into it  
i can see that  
and cause i  
knowing  
from [institutes] of learning like that i know that they've got to get their money somewhere  
and somebody's got to be willing to pay for it and believe in it  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
or they're older  
well don't you think they tend to be older in the rural  
i i sometimes think that it's almost [frantic] effort on the part of the people in the city  
i live in a rural area  
so   you know i see that  
it's yeah it's it's like it's [frantic] to   you know to uh achieve something that that a person in a rural area uh almost doesn't worry about it to such a degree but stays you know almost healthier you know  
as a fit person  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well don't you think a lot of that is diet too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and as we can see  
well i'm a i'm a practicing vegetarian  
so uh i've read a lot of information knowing that to be true  
what's that  
oh are you also  
well that's that's good as far as the  
is that is that um pretty [predominant] as far as california  
in the urban areas  
uh_huh  
oh that's wonderful  
yeah  
that's great  
i mean we uh  
it's such a it's such a trouble here  
i mean you just have to eat at home basically  
well of course in the cities  
yeah  
well in the cities  
we live close to dallas  
so uh which you know  
you get uh an influx of a lot of people from all over the country  
so   you're going to have a lot of more choices  
but   but in urban areas it's you know steak places  
an   and it's not a you know  
it's uh it's definitely  
it it's it's changing to a degree  
but um it's very frustrating   and even even with health food stores and stores where you can buy natural products or uh organic you know materials   and foods and things  
you don't really have that  
i mean you would think  
well i uh before i was married i used to play a lot of sports  
and uh but when i got married and had children and everything it seems like i keep all my activity just chasing around fulfilling my obligations  
so i haven't done a lot of uh exercise on purpose  
what about you  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh no  
that can be awful  
uh_huh  
oh that's good   uh_huh  
do you work out on  
like is it the weight machines or aerobics or what is it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i bet  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
doesn't sound like low impact  
well  
well that's good  
so are you  
well i like i am [undisciplined] in the sense that i can't just go and do exercise  
but i like to uh play tennis and play racquetball  
i i like to get exercise when i'm playing a game of some sort  
and so that's always been the way that i have kept myself in uh the shape that i was satisfied with at least  
and uh then i have given that up  
but uh i would really like to start that again because i am now you know not in a position that i like myself  
i don't feel good  
and i get you know  
when you get out of shape and you don't  
if  
you're easily tired  
and so that has made me  
but i i'm not the kind of person that could go to a spa   and work out  
i just  
if something like uh  
i mean i have so many chores and so many   obligations every day for to add another obligation   would make me feel stressed  
and i wouldn't enjoy it  
but if i have something some team sport or some activity then it's kind of like having fun   playing  
and then you then you get some of the uh good exercise and some of the desired results  
but you you're doing it for fun  
but i really admire people who can go and work out  
and   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's nice  
uh_huh  
yes  
it is kind  
it is family  
and it's fun  
it's a fun thing  
and kids enjoy that and and all  
and also the nice thing about belonging to a club is that you can have some of the relaxation you know like [saunas] or   you know uh hot [jacuzzis] or whatever   they have that kind of is kind of makes it fun and stuff you know  
you can relax that way   afterwards and things  
well i guess it's getting late  
and i should take off  
but uh i appreciate that  
that helped me helped motivate me  
think someone can do it  
maybe i should start thinking about it again  
yeah  
i bought one  
i went to the  
i bought the low impact first  
i thought   i shouldn't out of the blue just jump in  
so but i haven't done it  
but i'm going to try it  
well you have a good night  
we'll see you  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it's funny  
this week  
yesterday i started exercising seriously  
this weekend i cleaned out my closets  
and uh a couple years ago i too got married  
i haven't have any children yet  
but this weekend i cleaned out some closets  
and i found a bathing suit that i had bought  
tried it on and decided i really did not like how it looked on me  
so yesterday i went to uh a spa  
i belong to a private spa and went in and and got with a trainer  
and uh he checked body fat content  
and we set up a program for me to work on  
and i went back tonight also  
so i've been two nights in a row  
and i i'm going to take it pretty seriously  
i'm going to start going every night just you know  
even if i i  
like tonight i only went for thirty minutes  
but i at least did something  
last night i did about thirty minutes of riding a bike and a few like three different types of uh uh weight lifting for my legs and   and my hips  
and then i did a hour of aerobics  
and that was really tough  
and i was sore this morning when i got up  
but then tonight i got into a a  
it's sort of like an aerobics class  
but it's only thirty minutes  
and it's for your [abdominals]   your [thighs] and your butt  
so and that was  
thirty minutes was definitely plenty  
so  
no  
it was a lot of sweat  
but   i've been trying to eat correctly also  
so  
have you started exercising at home  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i don't you know  
a lot of people  
i have a girlfriend that goes for the social aspect of it  
and she walks around talks to people  
and and i don't really get into that  
naturally i'm married  
so my husband goes a lot  
and we'll go and and just do what we want to do and then leave  
but yeah  
and swimming is a is a part that i i'd like to get into as far as my you know  
just aerobic activity   they say that swimming is real good  
so i'd like to try that as well  
and that's probably something that that you could do you know   family   included  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
well try it  
or or maybe just exercise at home  
i bought a tape  
and i'm going to try doing that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's me  
uh_huh  
thanks a lot  
bye bye  
um i try to ride the stationary bicycle every day about five miles  
and i love to walk  
so if i have a lunch hour with nice weather i get out and and walk  
what about you  
uh very good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there are there are lots of bike paths  
i know my son is a [biker]  
and he he's done the whole canal i think it's a hundred and eighty miles with the scouts  
and so but that somehow takes   organization  
for me it's much easier just the stationary bike  
you know it's at home i can i can do some of my reading  
um but  
no  
i live in maryland  
right  
right  
and that's it um  
at work we have a a nice campus  
so i'm able to um take advantage of of the environment here   uh the neighborhood also  
i mean we're within walking distance of of stores and shops  
so i do  
now i think um  
basically is your motive simply um health or because you enjoy it  
uh_huh  
right  
i think pretty much you [summed] up my my my motivations also  
oh well that's great  
that's great  
uh_huh  
right  
and actually in in summer i like to swim  
we don't have facilities for swimming in winter  
but um and and that's true when i go home from work at the end of the day if i go up for an hour in the pool i'm much much more awake  
i'm ready to work in the garden or whatever in the evening  
so  
no  
i'm not  
no  
oh really  
no  
i don't know that  
but i i must say that um when when i did do a linguistics course in in school ages ago um the professor had a lot of trouble with my accent  
and it's probably because i i i was born in the chicago area and grew up in california  
and at that point that was sort of the limit   but since then i've been abroad a lot  
so   it's a mixture  
in santa barbara  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
well very good  
i think we've probably know know each other's exercise habits  
and uh it was nice talking to you  
oh okay  
bye bye  
well do you exercise regularly judy  
uh_huh  
well um i uh exercise regularly  
i work at a university  
and i swim almost every day   [upwards] of a mile  
but washington is one of my favorite places to visit  
uh my daughter lives in arlington  
and when i go to visit her i love to get out on that bike trail and either ride the bike oh  
gosh you can ride a bike practically all the way to southern virginia   or just get out and walk uh or even jog a little although i don't do that regularly  
but [washington's] a great place to do that  
uh_huh  
right  
do you live in the district  
because i think there're so many parts of the district where it's not very safe to get out and walk  
uh_huh  
well it's uh it's really both  
i'm certainly driven by the desire to maintain my weight and be healthy and be in shape  
and uh and most of the time i enjoy it  
sometimes i don't  
but i feel that uh that the discipline it affords me when i do it when i don't want to is also worth something  
and i often find that even when i don't feel that much like exercising  
like i'll be really tired  
and i'll start swimming  
and i'll and i'll actually get energy  
and i'll be have much more energy when i'm done than when i started  
i mean i just feel great  
that happens to me probably one in four or five times that i swim  
and that's really a terrific feeling because you just go there at the end of the day and you figure god i'm ready for bed   and you exercise and then it's sort of painful for a while  
but by the time you get done you feeling really terrific  
yeah  
yeah  
so can i just ask you are you canadian  
philadelphia  
i'm trying to because you have a you have one funny [vowel] that's probably going to drive the t i people crazy  
say out instead of out you say out  
did you know that  
huh  
huh  
i see  
i know this isn't on our topic  
but where did you grow up in california  
oh okay  
because i grew up in north hollywood california   went to u c l a and all that  
yes  
well same here  
thanks for calling  
bye  
okay  
do you want to go first  
fitness and exercise  
okay  
um i like to do uh weight training and and cycling and just walking uh swimming  
i used to do a lot of basketball and running and volleyball until i had some knee surgery last fall  
and the doctor said that running and jumping isn't real good for my knee anymore  
so i had to kind of change my life style a little bit  
thirty eight  
well the rest of me is in pretty good shape  
it's just that left knee that just doesn't want to do everything it used to  
really  
oh  
oh i bet that helps  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
well i mean if if you know what your routine is you can do that by yourself  
and you probably do  
this is true  
well that  
i can believe that  
have you tried the uh the pool at the spring creek fitness center  
yes  
it is  
they keep it at eighty one degrees year round  
um a fairly a fairly good amount uh more on the weekends  
uh i try to beat the traffic in the mornings when i workout in the mornings i try to come down to the dallas fitness center  
um have you done your attitude survey for this year yet  
you need to put that on there seriously  
oh you don't  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
this is true  
yeah  
well it's not  
now what year are we talking about  
okay  
uh things have become much more [enlightened] since then  
yeah  
you know we still don't have a day care facility  
but people are more sympathetic to it  
yes  
yes  
oh  
my gosh  
could you hold the phone for one second  
thanks  
okay  
i'm back  
wow  
of course it's real easy to take care of the first one when you're on your back  
really  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
there you go  
i i can believe that  
oh yeah  
flex time is great  
i i can understand  
i can understand  
well it's been good talking with you  
oh shoot it's only about ten bucks a month  
yeah  
i mean uh to add dependents is is you know maybe another dollar or something  
it's no big deal  
yeah  
uh you do for classes for classes  
but to i mean to use any of the facilities is is no extra charge  
yeah  
it is  
or or a  
or a dependent of one  
really  
wonderful  
yeah  
oh yeah  
it's great  
uh well it would depend on when you go  
it's not it's not [excessively] crowded on the weekends  
oh i don't think that would be bad at all  
if you're in richardson you'd probably wanted to come to the to the dallas site  
oh well then you could go either one  
the spring creek one is a lot more modern has a lot more [niceties] amenities  
and you'd probably like the pool there  
well good  
i'm glad  
well thank you  
you have a good day  
bye bye  
well i could barely hear what the switchboard operator was saying as what was the topic  
oh god  
no  
why don't you go first  
well let me ask a personal question  
how old are you  
oh well then you should  
see over thirty five everything goes downhill flop  
oh you're lucky then  
because i've [battled] arthritis all my life  
i mean even since i was like about two or three  
then they diagnosed it  
and usually most people are just absolutely crippled  
and uh i do water aerobics   religiously do water aerobics  
i used to do it about six times a week  
and now i'm down to about four  
but it's about the only thing that keeps my mobility in in there  
uh i tried weight training  
and i'm telling you you just i just can't lift the things  
and the shock on the system is is just too much  
so i have stuck to water aerobics basically you know the [weightless] thing and   trying to keep this shape that way  
but you know it's hard to find  
i mean it's really hard to find a place that's going to offer water aerobics because what i'm finding is that if they do offer it you get the crowd of women that are  
i think they feel this is going to be an [effortless] [sweatless] way   to get in shape   without having to spend anything  
or it's the geriatric crowd  
so i've considered even becoming licensed to teach it  
yeah  
but you have to have an indoor pool  
so to find an indoor pool where either you can do this by yourself without you know drawing a lot of looks means you're really going to do a strenuous workout activity  
you look very odd in the water  
that was the one place where i was also able to do weight training  
and that does look very odd in the water  
no  
and you know that's the only place i haven't tried  
and people have told me  
now that's the texins facility  
i have been told that thing is just lovely  
huh  

do you use that facility a lot  
huh  
do you know if they have child care there  
they don't  
i don't i don't work at t i  
no  
i used to work at t i  
as matter of fact i was the only woman that they had in the field in a management position  
actually when i was working there i was the only woman that was pretty much in the industry  
and i used to fill out those attitude surveys  
and uh uh me and the insurance [adjusters] are are very familiar with each other  
and my husband still works there  

and um i get my attitude expressed through them  
but i find it to be very  
sometimes it's kind of shoot yourself in the foot mentality to save a few bucks  
uh and never having lived in texas before i starting working for t i  
and i came down here  
and you know they did an attitude survey like six weeks after i had been working here  
and i asked about you know day care for the shift workers  
and boy i was pulled in by my manager and told that you just don't say that you know  
it was not applicable to me  
and i was kind of horrified  
we're talking nineteen seventy eight  
they couldn't have gotten anymore in the dark ages  
i understand i understand that they're now covering women's preventative health care  
and uh the reason i'm at home is when i had my kids and i was scheduled to go back and i tell you how much in the dark ages it was um i had been rated number one in the field  
and then i took uh  
when i became pregnant i also got [meningitis]   and then delivered the first baby three months early  
and they put the baby on a heart lung monitor when i took her home  
and the insurance carrier was not going to cover this because it was considered preventative treatment  
sure  
and then they used to uh  
and then i had a second one eighteen months later  
they told me to put them back to back  
and of course to maintain  
and i was flat on my back for the last five months with the second one   because that's when i go into labor four and a half months  
and i don't even know it  
oh yeah  
very easy  
very easy  
and they they put me on twenty four hour [fetal] monitoring then to to try to control the labor and see how far it was going  
and after the baby was born since it wasn't premature then they said they wouldn't cover the cost of the monitor  
i think that's kind of when my husband hit the roof   because it was a uh thirteen thousand dollar bill  
but after the second baby was born i was going to go back to work  
and that was when they had  
god it would have been the eighty five layoff  
and i'll tell you how they handled this  
and i was just outraged  
i did not know that since i was on personal leave of [absence] that i had been uh [terminated] until i filed my insurance claims about four months later  
and they didn't have any coverage under my name  
and i went back  
and i said what the hell is going on here you know  
and they told me that uh-oh well you know you know your husband works here  
and he's got a good salary  
we didn't think that you'd be coming back anyway  
and uh you know we've got people here that really you know need to be working  
and so that we had just  
you know it was this way we didn't have to layoff an active person  
and we'd just let you go  
and it took me about a year of arguing  
i said you know i've got to put this in writing to me   and because until they put it in writing i couldn't get my insurance benefits  
and i couldn't get my uh termination benefits either  
i was just pissed as hell that they could do that  
but i i guess things have gotten better  
i've been told that this flex hour and those kind of things  
i still don't think that they after my experiences that they could you know get me to go back ever again  
but let me ask you this since you use texans  
how much is it a month  
now that's for individual  
that's it  
now if you if you pay your monthly charge do you then pay separately for classes your taking  
god that's cheap  
that's really cheap  
do you have to be an active t i employee to join texans or   or a  
god i am so dependent these days  
it's a sense  
oh seen that my my co dependents have turned on the hose and are getting my neighbors fence  
yeah  
so my position for management to domestic [goddess] has been an adjustment  
but boy i think i'm going to go contact texans  
i really think i am  
i mean that beats any offer i've heard in a long time  
huh  
all righty  
when you're there on weekends is it crowded as hell  
see i'd want to be there in the mornings like from nine thirty to ten thirty  
oh i'm actually right on the plano line  
yeah  
oh god it sounds like i would  
i might do that then  
okay  
i learned something here  
you can go back to work now  
thank you  
bye bye  
well [patricia] i was just about to get on my tread mill  
and then i remembered that i didn't make a call last night  
and i thought i'd make one tonight  
that's what i did with mine   for a long time put it on the [handlebars] so i can hang them up  
and sometimes she just [flops] them all over the seat  
i like it  
no  
it's just as boring  
i read a book while i'm doing it  
but i was doing that on the exercise bike  
i feel like i'm getting a little better of a workout and i'm losing more weight on this   than on the other  
and my legs you know  
how  
okay  
i'm going to turn forty this summer  
i was getting all [dimpled] up  
and those are going away  
so that's real good  
we got it at a little bit of an [incline]  
uh this one yeah  
this is five hundred  
i know they get cheaper  
uh_huh  
well i hope so  
yeah  
i didn't buy it really  
my husband bought it because we we'd never get out and go walking or anything  
and we go to the lake  
and we ski and swim in the summer  
but   besides that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i think your voice sounds familiar  
where do you  
i wonder if we talked before  
i'm in garland  
you sound like this girl that i talked to about books and we got into movies one night  
uh_huh  
let's see  
education   social changes that we've seen in the last ten twenty thirty years   yeah  
that one was  
the most boring one was about what meal would you cook for a sit down dinner  
the other woman didn't cook too much either  
right  
yeah  
they do  
i talked to this old woman that was a retired administrator in ohio one night about education  
and she was  
uh_huh  
retired but  
yeah  
and then one night i talked to these two guys no one night i talked to one guy  
and then a couple of weeks later i talked to the guy's roommate in virginia about different things  
uh_huh  
one was about painting  
when was the last time you painted something  
did you feel like you did a good job  
did you feel uh rewarded while you were doing it  
uh_huh  
i don't know  
huh_uh  
well how'd you find out about it  
how did you find out about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i have a friend that had a roommate   that worked at t i  
and she saw it on the computer screen   and they made copies of it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
well if you work for t i you're supposed to get a prize is what i heard  
and if you don't work for them you're supposed to get cash  
but then on the letter it says cash or prize  
i don't know  
[gobs]  
this is going on my fourth week to do it  
well like what  
tell me  
yeah  
for how many calls  
does it say  
uh_huh  
no  
i'm trying not to  
he's telling me to start the grill  
so it's not all stuff that t i makes  
you mean the clocks  
yeah  
oh god  
did they mail that to you or he brought it to you  
huh  
yeah  
so you're bound to find something you want  
yeah  
well you know  
well do you know you have a ten limit a ten minute time limit  
well that's okay  
and then they come on and tell you and they tell you got five seconds to say good bye  
we'll keep talking if we want to come up with something else  
let's see oh  
i tried exercise classes  
and i never would go  
we [fin]  
we joined ex  
they don't either  
well the first one i joined they went out of business  
and they transferred it to another one that was really far away  
and we were going to do it  
there was four of us together  
well then forget that  
it wasn't near me  
and then the second time i was going to do it at richland college  
and we  
i just get with another friend  
and we'd end up just smoking cigarettes and riding around like we couldn't find the place  
so my husband's just discouraged me on those things  
oh yeah  
my husband said he's never joined a course right  
and i got one of those jane fonda workout tapes that i [dubbed] from a friend  
that didn't last long  
i had a baby i think  
two  
oh lord  
you're lucky  
well i've got a step daughter  
she's in college  
so there's where the money goes  
where's you  
two  
uh  
where you going to school  
and what are you doing  
yes i do  
i just got my certification  
huh_uh  
the test is a [booger]   the test the exit test  
it's hard  
it is so hard  
uh_huh  
see i didn't have to take any other exit test because i've been teaching for quite a while  
but i've heard they're terrible  
bilingual is just horrendous  
i've had friends fail that twice  
good  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right after you get out  
boring  
and they really don't help you a whole lot  
now see i went to e t  
and i took one course through t w u  
most of the training i've got has been through dallas just teaching e s l  
from chapter one tea  
well i have an exercise bicycle in my bedroom but it [usually's] holding clothes  
right  
well that's not why i got it  
right  
how do you like your tread mill  
you don't get  
is it less boring than the bicycle or not  
you watch t v or something while you do it  
oh  
well i do that too  
really  
are you  
yeah  
really  
uh_huh  
are they kind of expensive  
uh_huh  
they do  
probably the more you pay though the better the machine you have  
well you can believe that anyway right  
during the year  
yeah  
well in bad weather you know well you'd have to do something inside  
do you work at t i  
really  
i live in arlington  
where do you live  
no uh  
well  
oh really  
uh no  
this is the first time i've done it  
uh my husband was just running out the door  
he's working at night tonight  
so i decided to do it  
i haven't talked before  
uh what subjects have you talked about  
oh  
well that's interesting  
it's more interesting than the treadmill and the bicycle  
right  
oh my goodness  
really have a lot of variety  
oh  
a school administrator  
well that could   that would have been interesting  
really  
well that's neat  
hm  
how long is this going to go on do you know  
i don't either  
it's interesting though  
i never heard of such a project before  
pardon me  
oh i don't know  
i guess my husband got a letter at the office  
i i presume  
and they must have been asking  
does your husband work with t i  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh so they wanted any anybody  
don't have to work at t i  
well that's interesting  
i had no idea that was just for the employees  
and i couldn't understand  
i kept getting these calls  
i thought it was an advertisement and they just were also called t i you know  
there is texas industries and different things  
i kept hanging up on them for days until my husband told me what it was  
i didn't know  
ooh  
oh  
well the prizes are pretty nice  
he brought a booklet home  
and depending on how many calls i think three was the minimum  
but it went up to i don't know nine or ten  
how many calls have you had   well it sounds like a lot  
oh my  
and some of the prizes are pretty nice  
oh i wish i had that booklet here  
oh i think i do  
it's right here  
i'll look at the end because those would be the best ones okay  
um well they have some watches that look really nice  
there's one that's got some [diamonds] on it  
i haven't quite figured that out  
i thought it was eight or nine  
but seems like too nice a prize for nine just nine calls isn't it  
says when we have enough calls from you   you will receive in the mail a [numbered] certificate for your calls and and explanation how to redeem   for gifts  
are you listening to him  
oh  
it says three for a b gift five for a c gift et cetera  
and this only goes up to f  
so i thought that was somewhere around nine  
but anyway it's got these beautiful watches on it  
let me see what else  
it has a uh clock radio that also plays uh you know tapes  
then it's got oh some [binoculars] and some pretty brass [lamps]  
got some oh a food processor  
oh no  
i don't  
i haven't seen anything in here that t i makes the mister coffee the double mister coffee you know the two  
oh and there's a phone in here that's hilarious  
it has a button you can push  
if you get a call you don't like then it makes machine gun noise  
and then there's an [attache] case and cordless telephone  
and then there's a card table doesn't have any chairs just a card table oh some more jewelry [suitcases]  
and have you seen those anniversary [lamps] where the little balls go around  
yeah  
clocks  
i can  
i'm going crazy  
my daughter's playing the piano  
and i can't think  
it's got one of those  
and um well it's got a lot i mean pages and pages  
it's got [wheelbarrows] a lot of kitchen stuff of the mixer the [toaster] a [waffle] maker popcorn [popper] all kinds of stuff like that  
here's where here's a calculator but it's not even made by t i  
isn't that funny  
he brought it home  
i believe it came in his uh his mail  
here's a camera and a [dustbuster] and some tools someone a lot of tools a man might like you know  
oh yeah  
you're bound to  
all kinds of phones and clocks  
and uh here's more jewelry  
and oh there's even pictures and little porcelain things to put on a coffee table  
oh here's some brass animals brass [candlesticks]  
they're pretty  
so i'm sure you'd find something  
and uh  
silver [plated] bowls and stuff there's a lot of stuff it's a big booklet  
oh no  
oh well it's been fun  
this is my first time to do it  
yeah  
i went to metropolitan a couple of years ago  
so i sit and study  
i sit in class  
and i have really ballooned up since then  
and so he's says i ought to join one of those that makes you go  
but  
that's a very common experience  
no  
that's funny  
right  
well if you if you can make yourself do the tread mill i mean gosh that's a good workout  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
each one of those puts on a few pounds doesn't it  
how many children do you have  
yeah  
i do too  
two  
a girl one's in college  
so i don't have a have a baby anymore  
oh well  
tell me about it  
tell me  
putting two of us through isn't he lucky  
well me i'm going and my daughter [janet] in austin  
yeah  
right  
so i'll probably have to sell the prize i get  
u t a right here  
well i'm um going to be certified as an english teacher teach english as a second language  
you're kidding  
oh that's  
hard  
oh no  
really   really  
how are the other ones  
i haven't taken any of the exit tests  
oh yeah  
before they started  
really  
really  
i didn't know any of this  
none of my friends have failed the english or the education ones  
i really ought to take those quickly while i still remember some  
i know  
oh  
well [ironically] enough i'm sitting here with a cast on my leg because i [resumed] an aerobics class the night before last  
i ripped the ligaments in my right ankle  
yeah  
so  
that's what the nurses kept saying as they laughed all the way you know down the hallway  
do you do anything on a regular basis  
yeah  
that's a good  
yeah  
i   my husband's a t i in the unit here  
do you when you go to the  
i have to ask you  
and if this is getting to  
we're not supposed to get too particular  
but i'm just curious  
when you go over there does it bother you in terms of how things are arranged either at the dallas location or the spring creek in terms of there's so much it's so much of a weight orientation weight lifting et cetera  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's not that great  
and i go to the spring creek one on and off  
but my husband's working over there  
and he just goes to the dallas one  
but i just don't  
i mean it's just so much weight lifting  
even the spring creek one has a lot of weights in it  
or is that what your into  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i like the tread mill and the stair master myself over there  
and the pool when it gets warmer  
yeah  
i know  
well what i did was i went to a jazzercise class in a new location in richardson near where we live in north dallas  
and long story short i hadn't  
this is really a stupid thing that happened  
but they have like the [gymnasium] [flooring]  
and then like they had about three feet of linoleum around the perimeter in the back where i usually stand   in any class like that i go to  
instead of having that level you know   they had a [chrome] strip that wasn't level  
and it was about four inches deep and then about oh a seventy degree angle  
and as we were jumping around or doing something i just jumped up and came right down on it  
the orthopedist called it a uh basketball injury where the ankle just rolls under you and it [snapped]  
i know  
we went to well whatever in plano  
and the emergency room was like a bad comedy show  
and the doctor said you didn't do anything  
there's only a one in five hundred chance that the [radiologist] will call you  
that was tuesday night  
and wednesday night the [radiologist] called me at work  
and uh i was on [crutches]  
and he said i think you better call an orthopedist  
so we went to one  
and he just put a big old cast on it  
yeah  
for about four weeks  
well i like aerobics  
but i'm not so sure that  
no  
i've never  
i was off for about six months too just for some other surgery i'd had  
but i've never i'd you know i was pretty much in shape walking  
and and you know this is one of those things  
like this orthopedist said he said you'd be surprised how many how many people come in here with things like that because they are active  
you know i was real embarrassed  
but i felt kind of stupid  
yeah  
they do  
i mean i guess i'm glad you know that um nobody really noticed  
i guess you could say  
because i got up and started jumping on it again  
yeah  
really  
i enjoy aerobics  
and i do it because i like it  
i mean i like the music and   that kind of stuff  
oh  
that makes my foot  
how'd you do that  
in aerobics  
oh goodness  
uh_huh  
what'd they do for that  
did they have to cast it  
oh so the aerobics the impact would not be good  
oh goodness  
uh_huh  
oh that makes sense  
so i mean are you in terms of other things like like not running but playing a little bit of tennis or can you not do stuff like that at all  
yeah  
it's been  
that's probably the safer way  
because i notice in aerobics a lot of the women that don't look like they shouldn't be doing certain things  
i'm always afraid they're going to fall over and have a [coro] coronary  
and there was my ego when i went ahead  
and i went oh i can do that  
and   half the time though i don't jump half as much as  
i mean like i'm real tall  
and you know i'm not heavy  
but when you go easy a hundred seventy at my height um i'm five eleven   you need just take it easy  
um but when i see some  
i mean and i just don't think it's healthy  
all that pounding all the time  
so yeah  
that's the other reason  
and i don't know  
this was just i guess something freak that happened to me  
because i wasn't familiar with the  
oh it was completely  
i mean it literally  
the two dissimilar floor floor [coverings] were not level  
and at first after it happened i thought maybe that's a handicap access  
and then i said no  
that's just the way it's constructed  
and my husband being a t i engineer  
i said a few things to him when i got home  
i said who has engineered that  
but i  
sounds you like  
one thing that i like like swimming you like that a lot  
do you like that what that voice said  
do you like to exercise because you want to or because you have to  
that's how i am  
yeah  
if i don't do it i just feel like i don't have as much energy  
right  
it [curbs] the appetite and helps with the calories and all that stuff  
yeah  
but  
that gravity factor  
i know  
like that orthopedist said to me he said don't worry diane  
he says he said uh you're at thirty something  
but you're on the upper side  
he said that don't worry  
he says even if you weren't doing anything your body would start that would start to happen to you  
yeah  
because i was saying to him i said i'm not that heavy  
i'm not heavy you know  
maybe ten to fifteen pounds like any other human being  
i said uh why do i feel like i need to start pushing myself more  
and he goes human nature  
and then you know you see these little girls in these little bitty things  
and they're all like twenty one years of age  
but luckily at there's a little more diverse clientele  
except for the guys that lift the weights  
they do [intimidate]  
yeah  
there some things i'd like to try  
but you know sometime when i ask i just feel like boy am i stupid or what  
uh_huh  
i don't think i've ever i think i've  
there was some girl there  
i've been there like maybe a dozen times  
but i actually like that site better than the other one just because of the type people that go to  
it's terrible  
i don't know if the dallas location  
it just seems that  
um sometimes i feel like i'm in a singles bar  
no  
i haven't either  
and i just uh  
it's not that far of a drive  
and i'm glad they did that  
um you're not missing anything at the dallas renovated site  
it's not   at all anything worth talking about  
yeah  
but if you don't live near there that's not worth  
yeah  
that's actually where this happened to me out in i say plano  
but it's all the same to me  
richardson over on campbell and park hill there's a new recreation center  
and as we were doing it too everybody noticed that there were all these big guys of [assorted] nationalities  
walked out  
i was one thing  
oh great i have purple [tights] on you know  
and they're going yes  
but in general i like to i i like dance a lot  
so i mean aerobics is something i'd hate to give up  
but he he kind of said something to me about probably not as bad as your foot  
but he just said to me maybe you ought to try bicycling  
or  
he told me eight to twelve weeks  
not anything you know  
i said but you're only going to put the cast on for a couple of weeks  
he said yeah  
but that's just  
they tried to put me in some kind of [immobilized] walker because he doesn't like to put [casts] on when it's warm  
but i just  
the more they tried to get my foot in the more i screamed  
i couldn't you know   adjust that  
you know more about this stuff than i do obviously then  
no  
well you're walking okay now obviously  
and you can  
well anything else about exercise we can talk about  
yeah  
me too  
me too  
i need to go actually get something to eat here  
okay  
thank you sandy  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
oh no  
gosh  
exercise is not supposed to do that to you  
well off and on  
off and on  
right now i've been off  
but i've been going over to the fitness center  
yeah  
three times  
well i try to go over there at least three times a week  
and i try to walk um at least five times a week  
yeah  
uh well i've been going to spring creek  
i haven't been to the dallas one now in oh a couple of years  
at least since they've redone it supposedly redone  
so i don't really  
yeah  
that's true  
no  
no  
well i've used the nautilus equipment   and the bikes and stair [climbers] and stuff like that mostly  
i don't use the free weights  
but  
yeah  
i like those too  
and the pool  
yeah  
that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
um  
[woo]  
put a big cast on it  
four weeks  
yeah  
well not that much though  
yeah  
well those things happen though  
yeah  
well that did a lot of good  
i'm sure  
yeah  
i like the music  
but i've been unable to do that because i hurt my foot about five years ago  
i broke my heel  
and uh   no  
no  
actually i was up on a ladder and uh fell off   leaned the wrong way  
and when i came down i hit with my full weight on my foot but on concrete  
yeah  
they had well they had to go in and do surgery  
they put a pin in it  
yeah  
as i permanently damaged the the cushion under my heel   the normal cushion that you have there  
i can't do any jumping up and down because it makes it hurt  
uh well i haven't tried that  
i don't know  
it's been i bet it's been thirty years since i played tennis  
mostly into just walking and stuff like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um  
sure  
it isn't really it's not really good for your knees  
well the floor was uneven  
yeah  
really  
uh_huh  
i like swimming  
uh_huh  
no  
i like i liked it because i want to  
it makes me feel better  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and it's real funny because if you you know  
it seems like when you exercise and expend the energy that you'd be tired  
but it's the other way around  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
and i need all the help i can get  
uh_huh  
it does get you  
yeah  
thanks a lot  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
they do  
yeah  
i try to go real late or real early before they get there  
uh_huh  
well that's one thing i like about the spring creek place  
at least the fellow that's there one of the fellows that's there at night and on weekends is real helpful  
and his name is b j  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
and i haven't noticed that up at spring creek  
yeah  
yeah  
i thought maybe one of these days i'll drive over there and check it out  
yeah  
i live in richardson  
but it's about half way between the spring creek and the the dallas site  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you probably will for a while because it's going to be real tender  
uh_huh  
i know what you mean  
not fun  
oh yeah  
i have a slight [limp] from it  
but it matches one if i have one on the other side  
yeah  
well other than i need to go  
it's great though  
i really do enjoy it  
sure  
thanks  
all right  
yeah  
i exercise pretty regularly  
i lift weights quite a bit  
um i run occasionally  
let's see what else do i do play golf some  
and i work out on a on a hanging bag  
i'm brown belt in karate  
so i   keep up with that a little bit  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's neat  
yeah  
i do walk some too  
my wife's about five months along  
so she's been walking quite a bit  
so that is a good exercise for that  
uh_huh  
i i do it on my own schedule  
we used to try and belong to clubs or the y stuff like that  
but it was so difficult to go on a regular basis to drive the distance you have to go  
save the fees  
we've uh just save the fees and buy some of our own equipment  
so  
yeah  
i've got a weight bench  
and we got my wife an exercise bike  
and i use that sometimes too  
it's a little more convenient  
but you're i guess you're not as dedicated if you don't drive over to do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think you really have to be disciplined  
i uh i try to work out at least a couple of times a week  
and i think you really have to at least twice a week just to maintain the shape that you're in  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
i understand  
did you exercise between your first child and your second  
yeah  
um  
gosh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
maybe it maybe it [speeded] up the process and all that  
uh_huh  
really  
well that's good  
no  
i don't  
my my wife has been working with them  
uh_huh  
at least its something you enjoy  
i know a lot of people that talk about exercise and say well i don't want to exercise it's too much work  
but there's a lot of different things you can do that are enjoyable that you don't have to strain yourself or sweat   or be real sore afterwards  
yeah  
i think we've talked about six minutes or so  
been good talking to you as well  
thanks  
yours too  
bye bye  
okay  
are you on an exercise program now  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
um the only exercise program i'm doing right now is walking  
i've got a nine month old  
and i'm four months pregnant with my second  
and so at the time walking seems to be the best  
it's something i can do with her plus um doesn't tax me too physically  
i have enjoyed aerobics in the past  
and i enjoy that because i like the group association you know like exercising with other people  
and um and that's my favorite way to exercise  
oh  
yeah  
it's nice to do it together too i guess  
my husband and i use to walk together  
but our schedules don't [coincide] as well as they used to  
and so we very seldom get together to walk  
but when you when you work out do you pretty much do it on your own schedule  
or do you go to groups  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and then you can do it whenever you want i guess  
uh_huh  
i guess it depends on the person depends on how motivated you are  
because my husband used to work out three days a week with uh at the texas instruments gym  
and then i would just go on saturdays  
but since the first of the year neither one of us have been going  
so i guess like i say we've been paying these fees and not going  
so it's kind of a waste of money if you don't take advantage of it  
yeah  
yeah  
with the walking i think they said you need to walk at least twelve miles a week for it to be [aerobically] beneficial  
and we i have two friends that we walk  
they have babies that are about the same ages as as mine  
and we've been walking every morning at going  
when it was cold we would go to the mall because you can't take the babies out   very easily  
so we when we go we have about do about fifteen miles a week  
but the last little while for one reason or another we haven't been real consistent  
so it's a little harder when you're depending on other people to do it with you   because you have to meet their schedules as well  
but   but i enjoy doing it more when i've got other people with me  
you know i usually do it because i want to because i know it's good for me not because i don't feel obligated to do it  
i enjoy it  
if i feel too obligated to do it  
i start to rebel  
and i won't be as consistent with it  
i exercised pretty well up until i found uh until i was pregnant  
and i started having pains  
so i've calmed down everything except i was working out doing aerobic exercises as well as the um walking  
and i had to stop the aerobics because it was just kind of painful  
but the t i rec center has an aerobics program for for um prenatal and [postnatal] aerobic type thing  
and i was going to wait until um about my sixth month and then start that  
i did that with the second baby  
and um i went to my exercise class one day  
and then she was delivered the next day  
so it would seem to be real beneficial  
well i think it made parts of it a lot easier  
and and is this your first that you're having  
oh okay  
well then i don't know how much you've been through it  
but i think parts of it made a lot easier  
and i've talked to a lot of ladies that exercise with one pregnancy and didn't with the other  
and they said that they had that the one they had exercised with was three or four times easier  
and we've i had  
having both of them natural the first one was natural and going natural the second  
and and it's it's rough  
but it's not as bad as i thought it would be  
and i think the exercise helped  
so do you work with t i  
oh okay  
well then she could go if she were interested  
i think that's what the class that meets on saturday mornings  
so she could find out if she wanted to go  
it's kind of fun because with the first pregnancy all the other ladies except one were on their first pregnancy  
and they would talk about exercise and just general things relating to the [birthing] process  
and so for us it was educational as well as exercise beneficial  
so  
that's right  
yeah  
and sometimes if you get a little [soreness] you feel like well i've done a good job because i got worked myself to that point  
but i guess that you don't want to [overdo]  
but well have we reached our limit  
i'm not sure how long we've been talking  
but  
okay  
well it's been good talking to you  
okay  
i hope your baby goes well   comes out well  
bye bye  
well how about you are you an exercise fanatic  
me either  
do you  
yeah  
wonderful   uh_huh  
way  
that's the way to do it  
i'm kind of like you  
i've never really gotten into it  
it's just a it's just a chore you know  
and i finally decided one semester i'm in college and i'm taking night classes and i still don't have any of my p e classes  
and so one semester i thought okay that's what i'm going to do  
and that will get me where i'll have to do it you know  
and they were offering a a walking class   where you you know you have to walk you know that like for every mile you walk and every so many minutes you get you get points you know  
and then you have to go in once a week and log your points  
so it's not like you can do the class like anytime you want you know  
and at the end of the semester you go back in and your like your final [exam] is a three mile walk  
and if you walk it in this many minutes you get an a  
this many minutes you get a b  
and i thought oh this will be an easy class  
and you know and i did it and i did it for a long time  
like about the middle of the semester i ended up having to have surgery on my foot  
and this has been a couple of years ago  
and you know i had i did that  
and i just ended up having to drop the class  
you know by the time the final came around i wasn't even where i could wear a shoe yet   let alone walk three miles you know  
but that was the only time i have ever been able to like start an exercise program and really stick to it   because then i had to i had to go every week and log in what i had walked  
and my teacher looked at it every week you know  
but other than that i just you know i kind of get in the mood every once in awhile say   okay i'm going to start going to aerobics now you know  
and i'll go for like two weeks and go this is for the birds   this is too much work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but that's  
you're amazed at how much that adds up  
i was on uh [nutri] systems for a while  
and that is one of the things that they really stressed doing you know  
when you come to your [nutri] system meeting don't park in the parking place outside the front door   park at the other end you know  
i mean and they stretched stressed things like that too  
you know during when you're sitting watching t v at night   during every commercial get up off the couch   go to the living room and get a glass of water go to the bedroom and make the bed go do something   but get up during every commercial and things like that  
and you'd be surprised at how much just that little bit adds up   you know just gives you a little more activity  
so  
especially when you're like us and don't really want to do it anyway  
yeah  
well i can't use that as an excuse because i didn't do it before  
i had mine either  
i've never been  
i just i'm more into you know sitting than i am  
so but you know i have found that with  
i have a two year old  
and i have found really though i'm kind of the opposite i'm more active now with him than i was before   because now you know he'll i want to go outside and i'll go outside with him  
and we'll walk up and down the street  
and we'll go to the park  
and i'll run around with him and stuff like that  
that  
so i'm getting more you know more exercise that way than i ever did before i had him you know  
so i think i think that has helped a little bit  
i don't know  
just chasing him around the house you know   will be plenty for you  
right  
right  
you've kind of gotten out of that little stage there  
oh lucky you  
you're getting into even more interesting stages  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
same thing huh it repeats the terrible twos repeat at about thirteen  
how interesting i can hardly wait  
yeah  
right  
that that [walkabout's] a good program  
it really is you know  
when they first started it i i got all the information of course  
but just like everything else i was real gung ho with a friend of mine  
oh we're going to do this we're going to do this  
and we did do it for a long time  
and then i started school you know  
and like two nights a week i was going to school  
and then the other two nights a week my husband worked  
so i had to pick ryan up you know  
there's always an excuse you know   to not do it  
so  
yeah  
oh i'm sure  
i'm sure  
yeah  
here to here  
here  
yeah  
yeah  
to the mall to the movies to the friends to the  
sounds like fun  
well it was really good to talk to you  
take care  
talk to you later  
no  
i'm definitely  
i do like to walk  
yes  
since t i has uh uh instituted that um [walkabout]   i have gone out and started walking even more bought me the you know the proper shoes and everything to get started   and uh park out there you know way out there in the [boondocks]  
it was so funny the other day  
i took some guys to to lunch  
and when we came back they said oh there's a parking space real close and i parked way out in the [boonies]  
and i said you can walk off your lunch  
yeah  
um um   oh  
uh_huh  
um um   um um  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh no  
yeah  
um um   right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there you go  
well you know i have noticed too that uh when i started the exercise uh not the exercise but the walking program uh that i did tone up you know like all over  
but it didn't get the upper part of my body  
and uh so what i do is i bowl  
i am a fanatic when it comes to bowling  
and i used to bowl five times a week  
so i really loved it  
and i still bowl at least once a week now on a league on on a  
and i'm bowling on the t i league  
um but i've noticed that what i do is that i have my towel that sits on the floor so that every time i get up to bowl i have to bend over to pick up my towel  
and that way i get the little extra exercise  
i'm always explaining to people i do little things like that like you know take the stairs instead of the um the elevator  
and i do silly things like that versus a a regular program that you would have  
it sure does  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
there you go  
um um um um   that's true  
that's true  
no  
i used to  
i really did uh years ago  
and uh i was thinking about that not too long ago that i used to walk  
and not only did i walk  
but i used to watch all those exercise programs on t v  
and i would tape them  
and then i would do them like two times a day  
but i don't do any of that kind of stuff anymore  
i think having children everything just kind of everything goes by the wayside  
yeah  
yeah  
me too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um um um um  
yeah  
yeah  
running   oh yeah  
that's enough  
well mine are older now doing uh their own things  
so  
oh yes  
yes  
i have a thirteen year old and an eleven year old  
so  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
we're actually going through the same stages the two year old and the teenager  
yeah  
you watch it'll be exactly the same  
it does  
it it absolutely does  
so  
yeah  
i i i know i just know you can't  
but no  
i don't get as much exercise as i used to  
but i at least since t i has implemented that program i do  
i'm more aware of it  
and you know that i'm need to do this that and the other  
and uh so i try to do combinations of things but not like go down to the president's health club like i see all these people do  
it is  
it is  
yeah  
um um  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
and it gets worse  
it doesn't get any better  
yeah  
because i'm constantly running my children around someplace  
and that's where i actually get my exercise   is running them from here to there   in the car  
there you go  
that's it  
that's it  
well it was nice talking to you  
yeah  
well okay  
we'll talk to you later  
um um  
bye bye  
okay  
um i guess what i guess my task  
i usually ride my bike  
i have uh a stationary bike and uh a regular bike  
and when i can i like to ride my regular bike outside because it's so much nicer  
the stationary bike is is so uh   boring  
but i have head phones  
and i plus i have it uh in the living room  
so i either watch t v   or we have a fish tank  
so i watch the fish you know whatever i can do to keep myself occupied  
if i like to have the t v on because that usually keeps me um more occupied  
it kind of takes the time away  
and i don't realize really that's really the only time i ever watch t v is when i'm on the bike  
but and then usually after i'm done riding the bike just to cool myself down i usually take a walk you know  
and that just kind of gets myself uh gets me you know to where i'm not quite as tired i guess  
but it's definitely a task  
i can't say that i really enjoy it  
i wish that i did enjoy it more  
but i do it because i have to not because i want to  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
so is it just women that go there  
see i think that's what's my biggest problem with going to a place uh a a health club  
because i don't feel like having a bunch of other people watch me exercise  
you know so i have tried to just do stuff at home  
and uh i just feel conscious about it  
i mean i'm not big you know or anything  
but i still don't like other people watching me  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
that's what  
really  
that's   that's great  
how  
do they have a pool  
or what is  
huh  
i've heard that that's really good for you to do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you don't really feel like you're really working that hard do you  
when you're in the water  
oh wow  
well that's funny  
i never would have thought of that  
like   are they water shoes  
is that  
oh okay  
okay  
okay  
okay  
huh that's really funny  
huh that's  
so how often do find yourself going  
um on a if you're doing it on a regular basis how often do you go  
yeah  
that's really  
really  
i wish that i could make myself exercise every day  
but i do force myself to do it at least three times a week which i don't feel like is enough  
but it's it's at least something  
you know it it  
i just force i have to force myself to do it like i said because to me i really don't enjoy it  
but i know that i have to do it  
i mean it's just it's it's not a question of whether i want to you know  
but  
uh_huh  
oh that's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
did you ever  
well i'm sorry  
uh did you ever go to texins at all when you were working for t i  
did you   ever try that  
oh okay  
um  
then that would  
yeah  
i guess then the water aerobics would be probably the best thing for you wouldn't it  
oh  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
wow  
what if you're already on one  
i mean  
yeah  
i mean when you go in there they wouldn't make you do theirs would they  
okay  
but they have packages where they just offer the exercise program  
is that what you're saying  
i see  
okay  
um  
um  
wow  
that's  
oh  
yeah  
that would be really nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you really do enjoy your exercise then since your  
uh_huh  
that's you know  
i wanted   i wanted to get one of those [steppers] when i bought the bike  
but i got talked into the bike instead  
and i don't know  
i really wanted a stepper  
i'm considering maybe even buying one of those too  
but i'm not sure if i'll get benefit out of both of them  
i mean i don't know if it would really do any good having both of them  
which one do you feel is better since you use them both  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
um  
uh hum  
uh_huh  
boring  
you think so  
i bought a stationary bike  
but i find that if i sit on that seat too long it hurts  
and i haven't figured how to get that soft  
and i tried even tying a pillow to it  
but two years ago i joined well it's not quite two years it's almost two years i joined the cosmopolitan lady here in plano  
and i love it  
i just love it  
yeah  
it's totally women  
i like to be able to sweat have my hair a mess   uh   feel that okay fine if my bathing suit slips a little bit i don't have to be conscious   of it being a little bit too low  
and i my bathing [suit's] just one piece  
so there's no big deal all the way around  
but   i don't have to be conscious of what i'm doing or how i'm doing it  
and it's uh-oh it's just i don't know it's it's a total free relaxation  
because hey you can do what you want  
you're a female  
and no one is staring at anybody else or worrying about what anything else is doing  
and they've got such fantastic equipment in there  
oh yeah  
and i love the water aerobics  
i love the water aerobics  
oh yeah  
they've got a nice one  
they have two types of water aerobics  
they call it [aqua] exercise i guess is what they call it  
it pushes you because you're pushing against the water   in itself  
so it is like double strenuous  
but you're not being double strenuous on your own body  
because you're pushing it yourself  
so you're doing it yourself  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
the only thing that i ever felt was every time i stop and start going again because i end up getting two jobs once in a while  
i end up having to quit for a while  
but i get [blisters] on my toes on the bottom because   i really jump a lot  
well a lot of people wear those little uh terry cloth with rubber [soles] on the bottom especially around the pool  
so they just   wear them right into the pool  
yeah  
they're just little terry cloth things you wear for house [slippers] with   rubber you know [soles]   so that you know  
no big deal one way or the other  
but i never think about it until after you go there for about a week your toes you start getting [blisters] anyway  
so no big deal  
but it's fun  
i try to make it at least three times a week  
for a while i was doing it every day just   going uh five days a week  
well  
when i was working up at uh the summit   here in plano i'd leave there  
and i'd be at the swimming pool by four o'clock   oh actually about four thirty because they start at five to six  
so i was there by four thirty every night  
and the only thing that ever bothered me was my hair getting wet  
because no matter what i did or how i did it i invariably got myself wet  
but the water only comes up basically to your anywhere from your waist to your oh chest i'd say  
so i mean it's your choice where you want to go  
but   i enjoyed it higher  
that's okay  
i have a   i have a bad back  
so i'm very limited what i do  
it's like i can walk  
but if i walk for more than fifteen minutes it's going to bother me  
especially when you're on cement or anything that's hard  
it will bother me  
it will bother me  
well that what pushed me that way though was basically was the fact that when i went in there is wasn't for the water aerobics  
i went in there strictly to strengthen my back muscles  
and uh she said hey go for the swimming pool  
she says you get just as much if you did the aerobics on the floor  
she says in fact you get more  
i said okay because i'm not a swimmer  
i like water  
i'm not scared of it  
but i couldn't  
i guess i could swim across the pool  
but i'm no swimmer per se  
but i found that this worked really well  
and i came out of there  
and i saw my stomach going down well  
i dropped oh i'd say almost twenty pounds   just by watching what i ate  
and they fix you up with a diet which worked real good  
what  
a diet  
oh no  
they have nothing to do with that  
see i joined uh when this one down here opened up i joined as a v i p  
and the v i p gives you uh-oh gives you a diet a computerized diet  
and they go over all your health and all your history  
and they show you how everything to do and how to do it and the whole nine yards  
so it became part of the package  
so i went through it  
it worked out well  
oh yeah  
you can just go in there and join just like anywhere else too  
i just went and took the because they were offering it as an opening benefit  
so it was it's less than what you pay now for going in there   after all this time  
so it's like when i got laid off  
i went back in there and start all over again because it had been a while since i'd done it  
so i get all the same treatment again  
so it's kind of nice  
like i said i like it  
i like the heat  
i like the  
i jump out of the swimming pool  
and i go into the hot tub  
and i love it  
because i have i have never  
let me [reword] that  
i think i have gone home maybe once or twice slightly sore  
but that's because of my physical condition and nothing to do what they did  
that's  
i knew i was pushing too far  
but usually when i go into the hot tub before i go swimming or when i come out i'm totally relaxed when i go home  
it's no big deal  
it's fun  
it's fun  
uh i've gotten on the bike  
and they've got uh the stepping bike where you step  
and i've enjoyed that watching how well i can walk up and down stairs  
but most of the others to me are very dull  
um i get bored very easily  
uh the one nice thing about the bicycle is you just sit  
like you said you can sit and do it and watch the t v and not even really be conscious of what you are doing  
with the stepper you are conscious of what you are doing because you're basically watching each step as it gets harder and down  
so you have a little you know little  
you can program the one at cosmopolitan lady so   to what your gear is  
uh i  
it would depend upon which one you want  
i think now that i've had the bicycle  
i would go to the stepper  
but if i were you i would go apply to either a health club or one of the others and use it for a while  
because you can buy a [month's] membership   and see what you feel is best for you  
because it all depends you know for everyone their own what they want to do  
because i jump on the bike here at home  
mine has its see the handle bars go up and down  
so i can sit there and read and listen to music like what you said  
and it has no effect on me  
so i mean it's boring  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i agree  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ooh  
right  
it's always easy to find an excuse not to exercise  
i know what you mean  
um well i try to  
um i started at the beginning of this year  
i decided all right i'm going to start exercising again  
i'm going to be real good  
and i went through the t i fitness center and registered for the uh aerobics classes there  
and they run for two months at a time  
and you have to you do have to pay to take them  
and i took i signed up for one that was three nights a week an hour and a half  
so that was four and a half hours a week  
and it cost sixty dollars  
and i thought okay that's not cheap  
that'll encourage me to always go since i spent that much money  
and i had a friend of mine going  
so i was real good  
i only missed it about three times  
and then oh march came around  
and i signed up again  
and i got uh caught up with a class i was taking at t i  
and then i was having to work some real late hours to get caught with my work after i got out of class  
and then i went to colorado springs the next week to do some training at the t i up there  
and so that was two weeks i had missed  
and boy i tell you what i've been terrible ever since then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i think i've been two maybe three times the month of april  
and this session is about to run out  
now i signed up for a different one now that's only two nights a week because i am getting kind of into a real busy schedule as far as teaching a lot of training classes  
and   some of them require me to go out of town  
and and uh that just kind of throws my whole schedule off on doing that  
so   and i've  
lately uh there's been nights that i could have gone  
and i've found excuses uh   things like i had the flu last week  
but i'm fine this week  
i could have gone monday  
i could have gone tonight  
and i didn't  
so i'm kind of finding excuses  
and now it's kind of like well  
this is the last week  
i'll just start fresh next week  
but i better better do it  
and i think another thing is that my friend that was taking with me the first two months wasn't the second two months  
she started taking tennis lessons  
and so i haven't had that extra motivation of of us forcing each other or not forcing each other   but encouraging each other to go  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm the same way  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i do too  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
walking is kind of boring  
i do have a few friends that live in my apartment complex in this neighborhood  
and we try to we used to try to get together  
and i think now that the weather's getting nicer we're going to start doing it again and occasionally go walking  
there's a real nice residential area right behind our apartment complex  
and it's not as boring if you get several people  
and you can kind of talk  
and and it it makes it pass pretty quickly  
and the aerobics isn't too boring  
i kind of enjoy it when i'm doing it um  
it's a lot more fun than some other things i could do i guess  
but uh i do i do have to make myself go  
and of course while i'm doing it i feel pretty good  
and after i get finished i feel great  
i mean i can go in there  
i can be  
like a friday afternoon when i'm tired it's the end of the week and i just want to go home and i'll make myself go  
and i'll have headache and everything  
and i get out  
i don't have a headache any more  
i feel great  
and i'm just  
it's amazing how much better i feel  
and then just in general i sleep a lot better  
and i just feel much better  
i mean i've been kind of dragging the last few weeks  
and i know if i would just get around to exercising   i'd feel better  
but my [dragginess] is my excuse for not exercising  
well i'm too tired  
or i have a headache  
or  
well i just got over the flu  
and i'm still kind of [draggy]  
so i better not go  
yeah  
it really is  
right  
right  
it's just hard to make yourself go  
and i i think one thing i don't like about aerobics is that after i'm finished it's kind of late at night  
and i've been sweaty  
and and it you know  
i don't really feel like going in the grocery store all sweaty or running errands  
so it kind of kills the evening for doing errands  
so i think a tuesday thursday might be a little bit better  
of course i feel like once i've done it if i'm sweaty i might as well do an extra thirty minutes because you've already kind of shot your night  
but um so i'm kind of glad they have a longer class on tuesday thursday now that i can just kill two nights and   and uh get a reasonable amount of workout in  
no  
it's less expensive  
this one was only forty five dollars  
but i'm glad it's not too totally cheap because if it was too cheap i would talk myself out of going more probably  
since it's more expensive i think okay you spent that much money you'd better go  
so hopefully  
yeah  
yeah  
it's right there  
and it's they have a really nice facility at the t i  
they've got two different aerobics rooms  
they have the mirrors  
of course sometimes you don't like to see the mirrors on the wall  
you don't like to see how you work  
but i guess sometimes it kind of motivates you to really get going  
but  
uh_huh  
and they have ceiling fans in the rooms  
and it's it's a pretty nice setup um  
and of course it's real convenient because it is right there at work  
i think if i had to come home and then go somewhere i'd never make it  
and just the fact that i can go straight from my desk over to the the recreation center and do it helps a lot  
oh yeah  
quite a few do  
they have probably ooh i'd say fifteen different fifteen to twenty different aerobics classes each session that are running  
and they have them anywhere from six in the morning uh  
they have some during during lunch hour that are shorter  
and i guess guys can take advantage of that  
for me i wouldn't have time to do an hour hour of aerobics and then take a shower and get get dressed again  
but there's a lot more guys that do that one  
and um they have them you know in the evenings  
they even have some late night ones for people that work second shift and things like that  
so they have big variety  
they even have some uh aerobic uh water aerobics when the weather gets nice out in the pool  
i've never done that one before  
but  
uh_huh  
they've got an olympic pool and and basketball courts and sand volleyball  
they've got the full weight room and uh the [locker] rooms with uh a [jacuzzi] and [sauna] and the shower facilities and hair dryers and all the you know everything you'd need just about  
it's a real it is a real nice facility  
it's also got a full inside basketball court  
and i think they're working on building a jogging track and some other things  
but it's it is very nice  
i just don't take as much advantage of it as i should  
i mean i'm just now finally starting to do the aerobics thing  
but  
yeah  
you can get a fitness membership that allows you to use the facilities  
and it's about eight dollars a month  
no  
not at all  
pretty cheap  
and then the aerobics cost extra even if you have the fitness membership  
but i think the aerobics classes are even pretty reasonably priced from what i've heard  
hm  
oh yeah  
in fact uh the t i [er's] families can come in on these things  
okay uh  
the question was about uh physical fitness and staying in shape and exercise  
well uh i i don't do it as much as i should  
i try to walk  
and uh last year i would i did it every day  
but i've kind of in ninety one i've kind of gone down hill  
and so i'm not doing it as much as i need to  
but i i can tell you when i do do it on a regular basis i feel so much better   and so much healthier  
but it's just to get motivated to do it  
and once i get started and and i i i i do it every night  
it's just to get uh motivated again  
and what happened about couple of weeks ago i started again  
and i was walking  
and it got kind of dark  
and i was by myself  
and there was this fellow in this truck that kept [circling] the block  
and so i i kind of got frightened  
and i kind of use that as an excuse  
all i have to do   is start earlier  
but  
i haven't walked since  
so  
yeah  
it sure is  
it sure is  
how about you  
do you exercise on a regular basis  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's once you get out of that habit   you just don't you don't get back into it  
because i teach school  
and last year a bunch of teachers had an aerobics class  
we went in together and hired a private instructor  
and she came to our school twice a week  
and i i was  
i would go faithfully  
and then i missed once  
then i went back again a couple times and missed another time and then kept missing and never went back again  
i think if you  
you just have to stick with it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
that makes a difference when you have somebody to go with and to do the same the same thing  
like it's misery loves company  
i don't really love exercise  
i mean some i  
the neighbor across the street she goes belongs to president's  
and uh it's not president's any more  
i don't know what the name of it is anymore  
but she loves it  
i mean it's just it's an automatic high for her  
she just enjoys it so much  
and i don't  
i feel good after i do it  
but i hate it when i'm doing it  
you know i just  
i don't enjoy it at all  
and she just loves it  
so even when she doesn't go to the health club she runs you know  
and it's a daily thing for her  
so it you know  
and it's so hard for me  
i envy her  
i wish i could be that way  
but i don't   i don't  
and i have an older sister that loves running too  
and she runs all the time  
but at to me it's every [minute's] [agony]  
and i  
in fact i don't run  
i hate to run  
like when i walk i'll take along a radio or something  
and that helps you know pass the time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
oh it's great afterwards  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
exactly  
it does  
it gives you energy  
yeah  
it's kind of a vicious circle isn't it  
yeah  
i find too that i have more energy when i exercise  
and you know it's silly not to  
but i don't know  
it's just a put off  
i don't know why i don't do more  
and i and i know that it's good for my health  
i know you know from everything that you read and you see on television now exercise is so important to good health  
so you know you not only you know you're not only doing something to keep yourself fit but you're probably [prolonging] your life  
so  
there's no reason that we shouldn't do it  
but i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
does it cost the same for just two nights or  
well that's good too  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
well do you have a facility right at the where you work   no  
yeah  
and then they hire private instructors  
oh that's great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i can see that would be uh easy  
they make it as easy as they possibly can for you  
well um do a lot of people take advantage of it  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh you have a pool there too  
oh how nice  
wow  
that's great  
now to use  
well does it cost money like to use the to exercise in the weight room or to uh to to go swimming  
do you have to pay for that too  
oh that's not bad  
huh_uh  
um  
i think so too  
yeah  
well and people of all ages take advantage of the aerobics  
people of all ages take advantage of the aerobics  
do you exercise a lot  
is mowing the lawn a new exercise  
oh my  
i think that's considered exercise whether you want it or not  
well you're you are so far ahead of me  
i used to uh i used to walk two miles a day  
and i really enjoyed it  
because the two miles went fairly quickly  
i could do it in twenty eight minutes  
and that's not stopping and talking to everyone along the way  
but it's a lot you know  
it's not too strenuous  
and i could sort all kinds of things out and make plans and everything  
but i don't know what i did to my knee  
i was crawling under a desk hooking up a computer  
and i mashed it wrong or i did something  
and the doctor has had me on medication  
and she doesn't want me to walk  
she said that's you know while it's healing you're going to mess it up  
so i can't walk  
and uh she said you know the most conservative approach you do the medicine you do the medicine again and again before you think of surgery  
and i don't want her to think of surgery on my knee  
i don't want anyone to think about that ever  
that's that [microscopic] stuff you know  
uh_huh  
not my [kneecap]  
so i'm i'm being very good  
but i miss it  
i really do  
and i  
oh really  
uh_huh  
i can you understand that  
uh i don't really want to  
i just know i need to  
i make myself do it  
and if i do it okay  
i don't love it  
but i will do it  
uh it's not anything i would want to  
but i can really tell the difference since i have not been able to walk  
i have got to be so much more careful with what i do  
it's depressing  
right  
right  
boy  
hopefully my my knee is a hundred percent better  
maybe i can get back into it  
let me ask you a question off the subject though  
you're in you're living in the castle park area  
i grew up in oak cliff  
yes  
i did  
uh just close to methodist hospital  
on candy  
c a n d y  
oh in fact i lived there oh until nineteen late nineteen fifties  
and that area is it changing back again  
so many people are moving back into those old houses and are restoring them  
oh i know exactly where that is  
yeah  
sure  
oh that's that's wonderful  
that is a gorgeous gorgeous place  
well sure  
they are  
hm  
oh wow  
i need to go over there and just drive around and look  
oh i'm sure it must be  
i'm just  
we had a lovely little house over there  
it was like a two story  
well story and a half really because we had a basement  
and the guy that built it was weird  
i mean weird  
it's one of these really creative houses   that i grew up in that nothing was on the same level with anything else  
and i just loved the neighborhood  
and i mean everyone everyone had houses like that  
they were all completely different  
and so neat  
oh  
now why couldn't your wife run around the golf course  
is that not good  
yes  
i i really hear that you know  
i think you know you're in oak cliff  
but i'm in plano  
in west plano  
and we live on one of those blocks that it's a neighborhood watch block  
we all know each other  
and the street doesn't go anywhere  
if you are on the street you better belong there   because it's not a through street  
and still i want to get up early in the morning and walk   before this knee business  
and my husband had a lot of [heartburn] with that  
i mean it looked darker to him because he he was in the house with the lights on  
when i was out walking it was more of a [predawn] type  
pretty but  
huh huh  
he didn't think it looked [predawn] to him  
it looked dark  
and even he was real concerned about that  
so it's not just because you are in oak cliff  
it's just because you're smart  
that you don't do things like that  
that's right  
there's only one crazy out there you know to make any difference  
oh it's uh scaled back considerably  
uh right now my exercise is pretty much limited to uh softball league and occasional ride on the bike  
but uh i uh i was just recently well recently nine months ago got married and bought a house  
so my outside activities have been [curtailed] a lot  
yeah  
lawn  
it's a forty year old house  
so   we are doing a lot of [refurbish] work  
and yeah  
painting lawn [gutters]  
you name it all kinds of stuff flower beds  
yeah  
that that's true  
that's true  
it's there's always something to do  
and uh and and uh it keeps me going  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
wow  
uh_huh  
no  
that that's a tough situation  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh that  
it's so aggravating to uh to have an injury like that  
my wife uh runs or likes to run  
but uh she's  
well we moved we moved down to the north end of oak cliff in the castle park area  
yeah  
and she started running down there and all the hills  
and she lasted about two weeks  
and her ankles couldn't take it anymore  
she was used to running you know flat tracks and whatnot  
and uh ever since that it's just been real difficult  
it's real aggravating because she starts in  
and her ankles will start hurting again and stuff even if she does get on flat ground  
so she's kind of in the same mode  
she was all ready to get back into it and start running uh five k's and ten k's and stuff this spring  
and she just hasn't been able to stick with the training schedule long enough to really get back in shape  
and when you want to do it it's really really aggravating  
you know it it's one thing to get motivated to start doing the exercise  
and it's another thing to to already be past that and then not be able to because of your health  
yeah  
well it's  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it is  
and you know you you don't well  
speaking for myself i don't sleep as well when i am not exercising  
and uh it's really it's harder to get out of bed in the morning and all kinds of stuff  
it your body just gets used to it  
yeah  
i i don't particularly enjoy it  
well i i used to lift weights an awful lot and stuff like that  
i do enjoy riding bike  
but as far as the working out and lifting and things like that uh i i can't say i really enjoyed it all that much  
but once i got used to it it was habit forming  
it was  
i felt so bad if i didn't  
physically i mean  
i just  
my body was was was uh tuned into that that mode  
and if i if i skipped it then it kind of threw the the whole the whole system out of whack  
yeah  
yeah  
that's for sure  
okay  
that's right  
did you really  
okay  
yeah  
right  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
it is  
uh we're on we're on a little street called [bison] trail  
it's only about a block and a half long  
but it's it's over on the other end  
it it's over by the far edge of uh [stephen's] park golf course  
yeah  
it's it's uh  
you know where the little bridge is on north oak cliff [boulevard]  
yeah  
we are just south of that little bridge back up on the hill in the trees there  
and yeah  
uh our street is uh an awful lot of retired people  
but the other half  
in fact our one little block and a half there four houses sold last summer  
and three sold the summer before  
and everybody in their late twenties to mid thirties are buying and and starting to rebuild and fix things up again  
and everybody is real excited  
yeah  
oh it's it's a lot of fun  
the people are great  
there too we've got a real active neighborhood association  
and uh we have well we've got four regular parties every year  
and we do a neighborhood recycling program and all that kind of stuff  
so it's a lot of fun  
and it is it's a really beautiful area  
and some some of the people uh some of the higher dollars lawyers and stuff downtown too are picking up some of those great big houses  
and they're they're getting them at a real bargain  
you know  
they're they're getting four thousand square feet for a hundred fifty a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars  
and uh and they're just going to town with them  
they're people are putting in pools and and completely redoing the outside restoring to the original you know nineteen thirty nineteen forties look  
and it it's it's really coming around  
i guess  
it's it's worth the trip  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
okay  
oh wow  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
ours is kind of a little ranch style with a great big oh i guess it's twenty eight by fifteen front porch  
next door we've got an austin stone  
across the street the guy  
it was burnt out about two years ago  
and and the guy moved in and completely redid  
it's got oh it's got a rounded front on it  
it's all brick  
and he's he's landscaped his yard  
and he's about ready to put in a pool and things like that  
so yeah  
there's a variety  
you just don't see it anywhere else as far as the different styles in the houses and whatnot  
oh she could a little bit  
we  
i tell you what  
we got into the fitness center at methodist  
and they have a quarter mile track there  
so she has started doing that rather than uh rather than take off  
the problem is she's a school teacher  
and for her she can't run in the morning  
for her to get home and try to run at six o'clock in the night in the winter time it's starting to get dark  
and you know you don't want to  
she doesn't want to be out by herself anywhere in dallas  
regardless whether it's north dallas or whatnot when she goes over to this fitness center it's fenced in  
and there's somebody in the building watching her and all that  
so there's a lot of consideration  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
it only takes one time  
it's a hard lesson to learn  
yeah  
yeah  
you know it goes all over  
well you got the  
great  
um currently i'm not doing a whole lot of exercise in any type of program  
i'm mainly do a lot of walking  
i have a son that's a little bit overweight  
and um the best thing we found to do with him is to walk around  
so my wife and i kind of take turns  
at one time i had a fairly regular exercise program  
but in the last couple of months i've changed to a new residence and everything has gotten kind of turned a little upside down  
all this space that normally would be dedicated towards the   exercise area is covered in boxes  
well i had uh a little routine that i did for warm ups  
and then i did some very mild say light weight lifting  
nothing  
i'm not trying to make big [bulging] muscles   just trying to try and stay as firm as i can stay in my old age  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
that's a plus  
oh i have a total of five children  
i have three left living at home  
and they do take up a big part of my uh my evening and weekend  
and it's tough being a parent and doing all the things that you should do for yourself too  
it's something they don't tell you about when you're growing up  
yes  
when you become a parent most of your life is going to be dedicated to your children  
yeah  
you have to  
what i found from my experience is you have to budget time for yourself  
and you can use what ever rationale you want  
but basically the healthier you stay the longer you'll live  
and uh you know if i spend a little bit of time each day or a little bit of time every other day doing something for me to make me live longer well then i'll around a lot longer  
and those people that i'm taking the ten minutes or twenty minutes away from now well you know get the enjoyment of me years past where i would have been if i wouldn't have taken it  
if you kind of think of it as a rationale like that it works out fine  
huh_uh  
yeah  
oh i've done a lot of study over the years  
and i found that probably one of the worst things that anybody can [ingest] is [chlorinated] water  
yeah  
um the research that i've done  
and i've actually been in the drinking watering business since eighty three  
and it's amazing that uh you know prior to like nineteen twenty there were very few heart attacks  
there were none prior to nineteen hundred  
well in nineteen three they started experimenting with [chlorinating] the water in nineteen thirteen most of the major cities  
and after that we   we started having the hearts attacks  
and uh doctor price wrote a book coronary cholesterol and chlorine  
you can usually find it in a health food store  
i know they had it in health food stores in plano  
i used live in plano  
uh doctor price  
yeah  
and it's amazing  
he makes the  
you know it's a very small book  
and the guys very opinionated  
um but he makes a very good case against chlorine  
there were no heart attacks before we started using it  
and he points out that people in uh england  
and uh or even [diets] that [quadrupled] the amount of cholesterol that we're [ingesting] now  
and they weren't dropping dead of heart attacks  
yeah  
he did some experiments on chickens whose [arteries] are very similar to ours   and uh proved that [ingestion] of chlorine causes arteriosclerosis which is the   [clogging] of the [arteries]  
and uh you know he's  
there's been a lot of reports since then  
this whole thing about  
first it was stress then it went to cholesterol  
and now they're saying what's cholesterol  
well there's good cholesterol and there's bad cholesterol  
you know it's amazing what he points out in that book  
and in fact he everyone there was a [toxicologist] for the environmental protection agency who did work back in nineteen eighty six who wrote a letter to doctor price in nineteen eighty seven and in this letter he praised doctor price for the work he did back in the sixties on this and said that e p a had been doing experiments on [nonhuman] [primates] and proving that [ingestion] of chlorine causes arteriosclerosis  
and e p a never published that report  
coronary cholesterol and chlorine  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there is there is a lot of good information out there uh about health  
and a lot of the a lot of the myths they've been passing around people are starting to realize aren't true  
i mean i'm all for having a diet high in fiber and all that because that's that's good for you  
uh but to believe some of the things  
you know and i don't think anybody should be going out there and eating a high fat diet  
but to think that solely alone is going to cause something like arteriosclerosis is is just hard to believe  
huh_uh  
yeah  
i actually eat pretty much anything that i want  
and i've had my cholesterol checked and uh a few times  
and i've never been above like you know one hundred and fifty   never  
and uh uh i mean i  
um   well what they tell me  
but i mean you know everything is like within five to ten percent and all that kind of thing  
you know they leave themselves wide open so they can't be sued  
but uh we've  
i work at the t i site in hunt valley maryland  
yeah  
and we've had a few of the health [fairs] up here  
and um you know i've always come out [aces]  
you know i'm not really that big on watching what i eat  
but i do eat you know some health cookies that are high in fiber   low in fat and all that kind of stuff  
but i mean as far as really being concerned about [ingesting] too much chlorine i'm not cholesterol i'm not worried about it  
okay  
huh_uh  
yeah  
um what did you do when you did exercise regularly  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
um right now um i try when it's nice out  
it's been raining a lot this spring  
but i try to uh  
i have a bicycle  
and i like to cycle a lot  
and uh my husband and i we have entered a few rallies that's pretty popular in texas  
i don't know   if it's up north  
but every weekend a small town will sponsor a rally  
and thousands of people come with their bikes and ride over hilly terrain for thirty or forty miles which that's a lot of fun  
um so we try to ride during the week to try and stay in shape for that  
and um t i where i work has uh a fitness center  
so a lot of time after work or maybe on the weekends we'd go over there and lift weights and do the tread mill  
and um they have stair masters and all kinds of new machine that are fun to ride and workout on  
so i try to  
i'm trying to stay in shape on a regular basis  
i used to uh get into it and get out of it based on my schedule  
so i'm trying to stay in shape on a regular basis now  
but it's a big commitment  
we don't have any kids yet  
so that's a lot of part of it  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh_uh  
that's why they uh really stress at t i they really stress staying in shape like stay in fit overall fitness you know no smoking and all that  
but it's hard to find uh an actual exercise [regimen] that work for you you know because like i know a lot of people that cycle they take their kids behind them on the bikes  
and i don't know if that would work for me because i don't know i wouldn't want to pull a kid over hilly terrain  
but it's really hard to find something that works and you know to find time to do it and stay committed to it like three days a week or whatever  
i think maybe walking or running would probably work because it doesn't take much time and much money or whatever  
yeah  
huh_uh  
right  
huh_uh  
yeah  
um i've been learning a lot lately about um  
i've been reading a book by kenneth cooper  
i don't know if you're familiar with him  
he was the pioneer of aerobics and all of health really  
he's he's kind of he's pretty much the [innovator] of the whole exercise thing  
um he was talking about the three things you could that cause aging smoking are [inactivity]  
and what was the other one i think was yeah [obesity]  
if you can control those three areas then are you going to live longer you know cause those are risk factors  
so anyway   it's kind of a tip  
really  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
doctor price  
huh_uh   that's really interesting  
huh_uh  
yeah  
huh_uh  
and what's the name of this book again  
i'll have to remember that  
that will be very interesting  
my husband wants to go into medical school and be a [neurosurgeon]  
so he's really interested in the heart  
and he's in fact he's a well heart too  
he's uh he's done a lot of research on like how your heart [reacts] to exercise  
sorry  
he made me laugh  
um so anyway  
yeah  
huh_uh  
if you get a chance read doctor [cooper's] book on controlling cholesterol  
that's a real good  
um he talks about that  
talks about high risk factors and heart disease and all that  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
you have a good ratio of good to bad   cholesterol  
yeah  
oh really  
that's good  
yeah  
okay  
are you on any kind of uh regular exercise plan  
step classes  
what's that  
oh instead of hopping and jumping you just step  
and   oh okay  
huh  
i probably couldn't do that because of my knee  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i've i've kind of gotten out of the habit myself  
i mean it's  
i guess what i do now is i play softball   right now  
that's about  
well right now i'm on two teams  
so it's four nights a week  
but uh uh so i enjoy it  
but   as far as you know uh  
instead of having to join a health club and make myself go out there   i went and bought a weight bench and don't ever hardly use it  
i need to make myself do that  
what school you going to  
oh  
now what's what's toning  
is that lifting weights  
oh okay  
[isometrics] stuff like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i   stayed in pretty good shape during school  
i played baseball   all the way through  
and you know working out six hours a day usually six or seven days a week that kind of   kept us all in pretty good shape  
but uh ever ever since i got out of school you know just jumped right into the job  
and   i guess the job that i'm in it's stuff to stay on any kind of a regular schedule  
because i work some weird hours and do some traveling  
yeah  
no  
i didn't have well much of a problem  
we i guess i went to a small baptist school  
and we had about when i was there maybe thirteen hundred people  
so it's pretty small  
yeah  
but i usually get in at least a couple of miles at work just walking around the plant  
so  
uh we've got a one story house now  
that's that's enough  
i guess i push the lawn mower around  
that's   fairly regular  
yeah  
what  
just because you don't like to or because because you won't be able to  
oh if you do   if you do aerobics you shouldn't have any problem running  
we've we ride our bike occasionally but again not nearly often enough  
no  
you can't forget how to ride a bike  
yeah  
now when i was going to  
i i went to a junior college for a couple of years and played baseball and then transferred  
well when we were at this junior college uh our coach you know  
we  
one semester the whole team was required to take aerobics  
and the next semester they were required to do weight lifting  
so they uh  
i mean it was a regular  
i mean we had it for course credit  
but still i mean it was pretty high impact stuff  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and she'd uh you know  
most of the guys were all in one class  
so she'd kind of lay it on occasionally you know  
first at eight i think we had  
eight o'clock in the morning was our class  
wake up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think my wife has some  
uh_huh  
or sand even some of them  
well no  
they're elastic  
so i guess it wouldn't be sand  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so are you going to get into [instructing]  
well what are you studying  
oh okay  
not in the not in the   aerobic instructor type field  
yeah  
yeah  
the uh the some of the nautilus equipment that i started seeing at the one that we used to go to was really interesting  
i mean they they they really know how to isolate each of the different muscle groups   with those things  
but man they are it  
i don't know  
to me that was just too much of a hassle to get all geared up and take the time to drive over there   and workout and then drive back  
a little negative reinforcement there while you're going  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's where i'm really starting to get noticeable  
i'm just getting real soft in the middle  
uh_huh  
i haven't really started to put on a lot of weight  
i'm i guess i probably put on about ten nine or ten pounds since i stopped playing which was about four years ago  
but i've just myself i just notice myself just really real soft  
and i'm sure i don't have near the endurance that i did  
but i i intend i keep saying i intend to get back into it  
i just need to put the old nose to the [grindstone]  
i i i guess at that point it would turn into a task  
i don't consider it fun doing that  
but  
next weekend  
all right  
yeah  
oh no  
yeah  
there there's no no question the the end result is great  
and i i mean i enjoyed you know  
we  
when i was playing ball we could like run all day and not be tired you know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh i still don't  
but   that's a problem  
well good luck on your graduation and your  
yeah  
you too  
bye  
i i yeah i'm yeah i i do aerobics uh step classes and uh   toning classes  
yes  
it's uh it's a new uh form i think  
uh it's like low impact aerobics  
but at it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you you have a step  
and you literally step up on the step and move your arms  
it's it's it's it's new  
it's fun  
uh_huh  
bad knee  
um and uh i do toning a lot and uh some  
every once in a while i play tennis  
i'm not too great at it  
but i i try to play  
uh_huh  
gosh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
ha  
right  

yeah  
i slacked off a little because of um  
i'm about to graduate from college  
and so this past couple months have been really hectic  
so i haven't really gone  
and i've really been faithful these past two months of going to the health club and working out  
but  
i'm at east carolina  
but um no  
i uh  
my step classes and toning is about the only thing  
well i mean  
it's um like isolated movements for each muscle certain muscles groups  
you can do with  
yeah  
you can do it with certain you know you can do it with weights if you wanted to  
but you know you leave out of there  
usually the next morning if you haven't done it in a while you wake up the next morning  
you're like oh no  
what did i do to myself  
and your whole body [aches] you know  
um i know i'm looking forward to getting back into getting into shape  
uh i feel like i'm out of shape  
but i feel guilty for not going   because i really i'm i'm so used to going for you know three or four years now  
but um  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
some um  
i walk a lot because uh you know being in in school we  
i don't know if your campus was anything like ours  
but our parking [lot's] in one end of the of the campus  
and the school the buildings are all at the other end  
so  
you  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
that's if  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's uh  
i live i live on the second story apartments  
so i walk up and down stairs all day long  
so  
uh  
yeah  
that's one of the exercise now  
i i um would like to start running  
i've never been much of a runner  
but i want to start  
i want to run  
but i don't i don't know if i'll be able to to do it  
i'm i'm afraid i won't be able to  
i wish i'd  
yeah  
i hope not um  
uh_huh  
i don't even own a bike  
i think the last time i was on a bike when i was about twelve  
so  
uh i don't know  
i'd be afraid afraid i probably forgot how to ride a bike you know  
yeah  
but um no  
i guess that's about the only form  
i'm trying to think of of other things that i do that will be considered exercise  
there are things i should do  
i know it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
those aerobic classes are are tough the the high impact  
definitely are are tough classes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well now they have those uh those exercise bands now that are better that you can use for like toning instead of using a weight  
you have like bands  
i don't know   if you've seen them  
they're   yeah they're they're weird  
they're uh you they're just made of i guess it's different kinds of rubber  
uh and they get  
uh_huh  
and there's some that like the different colors [denotes] how much they how much the [tension] i guess they are and how easy they are to move  
uh there's like i know there's purple gray and uh green  
and some of them are real short  
and they're the ones that are the tough ones to use you know  
but uh those classes i i enjoy  
uh i think uh with the aerobic classes you have to get an instructor that's fun  
if you don't have one that's fun and not enjoy it look not acting like she's enjoying what she's doing the class is not going to get out uh what they should get out of the class  
uh if the  
oh i'm an interior design major  
oh  
no  
no  
no  
no  
oh i could never do that i don't think  
i'd rather just be the student  
and uh   occasionally i do the weights at the health club but low weights just  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well they um i just noticed at our health club they will put on these computerized one these computerized machines  
and you set a speed on it and the weight  
and it and it makes you do it  
and it tells you  
like if you're going too slow it will say my grandmother could do this faster than you   and stuff like a turtle goes faster  
and um it tells it  
and the whole place can hear what this machine is telling you  
yeah  
so uh do that stuff like that  
but just i've never used those machines  
i just use the regular machines and the free weights you know like little five pound hand weights and eight pound hand weights  
just to do you know some [bicep] [tricep] exercises  
sit ups of course  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i think that's uh number one problem with everyone  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i plan on getting back once i graduate next weekend  
next weekend  
yeah  
one week  
then i plan to get right back into it  
you know it's it does a lot for you i think  
makes you feel a lot better  
uh_huh  
and i mean you feel so much better   about yourself  
just that you know you don't feel guilty when you eat that cake after dinner  
oh yeah  
yeah  
all righty  
well thank you  
it was nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
so  
yeah  
i sure do  
uh i ride a bicycle quite a bit and uh work out with free weights  
i live right near white rock lake  
so i used to i try to ride about ten to twenty miles a day  
but i   haven't been doing so well this year  
but  
oh that's weird  
oh yeah  
so what's your motivation  
yeah  
was it for health or to look good  
i was think  
it was just a side benefit  
yeah  
up to a point  
yeah  
yeah  
so what was what was the other question  
let's see do you do it as a task  
or do you enjoy enjoy working out  
yeah  
i think i uh i enjoy it sometimes  
and there's other times when i just get tired of it  
and   and i feel like i'm obligated to do it because i've been doing it  
so i should keep up  
and there's some days it's just like it's the hardest thing in the world to to get started  
i'm uh twenty seven  
yeah  
still young getting older  
yeah  
but uh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
i notice if you uh if you stay in shape you don't age as bad  
i think too  
i was i go to school too at night  
and last semester i had stopped working out because i hurt myself and started smoking a lot  
and you just  
those kind of things age you more  
right  
an  
right  
an you can't  
and then you know it just kind of feeds itself  
you smoke  
and then you don't work out because you  
right  
and so  
i finally quit because like i just all i was doing was going down hill fast  
yeah  
right back to them  
yeah  
oh that's  
yeah  
yeah  
i went to health club a few years ago  
and now i work out at home because i don't really my schedule with school and work i don't have time to get down to one  
there used to be one that was a twenty four hour that i used to go to  
but uh i actually prefer to work out alone  
really  
yeah  
i wouldn't mind having you know working out with a friend and and stuff  
but when you get into some of these some of health clubs where you just stand around and wait  
you know i like to start get it done and get out of there  
no  
i'm not  
yeah  
right  
uh especially having a kid i guess tends to just gain weight because you have to to   to uh  
just have to start all over  
right  
yeah  
some people are a little bit [fanatical] about it  
you know i  
well yeah  
and about   working out and fitness you know  
i like to to work out to look good and stay in shape  
and you know i know it's good for me  
but people that live for it and you know eat a bunch of different pills and   all that kind of stuff it gets a little bit [obsessive]  
yeah  
yeah  
steroids  
yeah  
there's really bad for you  
hormones  
yeah  
it's too dangerous  
yeah  
i had a friend whose brother did steroids  
and as soon as he stopped working out he just ballooned out  
it all turned to fat  
and he just   really looked bad  
but uh  
i don't know if it does to everybody  
he was  
it just that's how it affected him  
and he i don't know just  
yeah  
at least you got a chance to out run them that way  
i don't like to run myself  
i've thought about it several times  
and i just it i like to move a little faster and cover more ground  
it's probably i would think it would be hard on your your legs and your joints and stuff  
yeah  
uh i can't  
yeah  
no  
you can't  
it's dangerous  
at least maybe some of these mountain bikes you could  
but a regular ten speed with those skinny tires   you slide all over the place  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
well good luck with the the new kid  
all right  
okay  
do you exercise regularly  
what do you do  
okay  
i love to ride a bicycle  
oh that's good  
i went an last year i went an was exercising on a bike for a while  
and i when i'd gotten back i had gotten some sun that day  
the sweat had built up on me and built up under my skin and caused me to peel  
it was the sweating not the burn  
that was wild  
but i exercise i don't exercise now  
i just had a baby three months ago  
i haven't really gotten back into exercising  
but i exercised real good for a couple of years  
it was aerobics and lifting weights three nights a week  
and it was running three nights a week  
what what's my motivation  
a friend of mine always pushing me  
this was in louisiana  
and she would push you know  
she was hey  
let's go do it  
and you know she wouldn't take no for an answer  
oh i i just wanted to look good  
yeah  
it wasn't really health related  
yeah  
yeah  
because i'm not i'm not big or anything  
but i'm not in great shape  
so but when i worked out i got in pretty good shape  
i didn't build up muscle though  
i just got real good and toned  
i don't think women look good with muscles  
up to a point  
no  
yeah  
it's just some of those women that come up there looking like arnold [schwarzenegger's] sister just doesn't get it  
i guess it's a task because i can't make myself do it lately  
yeah  
you don't want to lose yourself  
well how old are you  
okay  
so you're still young  
we all are  
so  
it's not hard to stay  
well if you keep working out when you're young though when you get older you know your [body's] not going to look as bad  
i seen an old woman today  
she was about eighty  
and she looked so good  
i mean she was standing just as straight and tall  
and she had a small waist  
and she didn't have you know like  
you know how some older women will get the big bulge right in the middle  
she didn't have that at all  
she her lips were a little bit wide  
but a lot of  
back in her time they liked women with big hips anyway  
so she may be keeping that on purpose  
so  
uh_huh  
well smoking ages you quick  
it puts those little [wrinkles] around your lips  
you get [winded]  
oh i smoke a pack a day  
an  
i can't quit smoking  
i've tried  
i was telling a friend of mine that i'd be almost as bad as being an alcoholic  
i can't quit smoking  
i've tried  
i just can't do it  
i quit when i was pregnant with my kids  
but you know as soon as i had them right back to it  
yeah  
it was like you know  
that was the only reason i quit  
i didn't want to  
and i don't want to quit smoking  
i enjoy that  
i said i have very few [vices]  
i'll keep this one thank you  
but uh did you ever go to like one of those health clubs or anything  
uh_huh  
i like to work out with people  
i need  
like you  
i i need competition is what i need  
i've got to have somebody to compete with  
or i don't want to do anything  
uh_huh  
are you  
uh_huh  
are you married or anything  
no  
well get your girlfriend to work out with you  
a lot of women like that  
i'd love it if my husband would ask me to work out with him  
he doesn't work out very often  
course he don't need to  
he's small  
and he works as a [laborer] on the railroad  
so you know he's building his muscles up all day  
he doesn't have to do anything  
he can eat like a horse too  
and he don't you know he don't gain it like i do  
but uh  
yeah  
you have to  
well you can gain too much weight  
i gained a little bit too much  
but i looked  
with my first little boy i did gain a lot of weight  
i got i got about fifty pounds overweight with him  
and i didn't loose it until two years ago  
and then i got pregnant and you know ruined that  
so  
yeah  
well actually like i say it ain't as bad this time because i was in shape when i got pregnant  
i wasn't out of i wasn't overweight when i got pregnant with him  
i just wasn't in in shape  
i don't know the difference  
but  
about weight  
exercise  
well that's what my friend did  
well she was she was with the wheat [germ] and all the vitamins and everything else  
and really we was you know  
even with her taking all those expensive vitamins and stuff   we stayed right on the same track with each other   you know developing and everything  
now there  
you can take those uh  
what is it  
steroids  
yeah  
i couldn't think  
i was i was trying to say [hemorrhoids]  
no  
i was trying to say hormones  
yeah  
hormones  
but  
yeah  
uh steroids  
but i stay from that crap  
oh i wouldn't i could just see hair start growing out of my upper [lip] or something  
really  
ugh  
i didn't know it did that  
yeah  
but i've been wanting to get me a bicycle or a bike  
i've been wanting to get a ten speed to ride around  
i'm scared to run for dogs  
course i know dogs can get you on a bike too  
but   seems like it  
yeah  
well they  
yeah  
they've come up that running is not as good for you as they thought it was  
yeah  
it's real hard on your legs  
and it's hard on women  
and it it just makes stuff move down  
and uh but i i i like jogging  
i don't mind that  
i can get out and do that   as long as it's not hot  
if it's hot you can't do that  
but in the rain oh i love to run in the rain  
just you know be careful not to slide  
but you can't ride your bike at all in the rain can you  
you slide  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i when i did ride my friends bike that one time i had uh i don't know what i was trying to do  
i was trying to make a u turn  
and i never could make a u turn in a bike  
i can do it in my car  
but i tried to do it on that ten speed and wrecked  
and i told her a dog was chasing me  
but i wrecked it into the curb  
i didn't hurt it too bad  
i [scratched] it on the the oh  
she had some kind of [fender] thing going over the back tire i think  
but oh well  
anyway it's been nice talking to you  
and uh  
thank you  
she's it she's good  
anyway have fun exercising  
all right  
bye bye  
all right do you do exercise  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well um that's a hard question to answer because i do physical things but i don't always set out for them to be exercise  
i walk with my parents occasionally  
nothing's real regular about this because i have a weird schedule and they have a normal schedule  
and um i play racquetball  
but i haven't since i've been out of school  
i don't have anywhere to do that  
but that's going to start soon again  
and um i play softball once a week which is kind of more recreation than exercise  
because i really don't like to exercise  
i think that's the basic point of it is i'm not i i don't enjoy it   if i know that it's exercise  
but if it's like a social activity or a recreational activity i don't mind  
so i have to disguise it  
it's like feeding little babies food and telling them it's something else so that they'll eat it  
that's kind of the same thing for me  
i have to not know that it's exercise so i can do it  
well yeah  
if it's exercise it's a task  
i don't want to do anything i have to do  
i mean i'll voluntarily clean the bathroom  
but i won't do it if i have to do it  
uh_huh  
right  
i'm twenty two  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
eating right and no cholesterol and all that  
yeah  
we  
i'm sure i will do  
i'm doing that more and more than i used to  
i'm getting better about this knowing that i need exercise and doing it but it's still at the task stage  
is it a pleasure for you  
or are you  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
that's  
i never got past that stage  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
that's good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
that's it  
i do the occasional push up and sit up  
i haven't really brought myself to go to the   the gym because that's very stressful to me  
because i feel i felt real competitive there  
and i need to find some place i could go and not feel like there's all these people who are just huge and [hulking] that are  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
that's a good idea  
but i do have my ride  
we have a stationary bicycle and a stair step machine here at the house  
i'll do those once in a while just   you know like   at eleven thirty when love [connection's] on   and i can't sleep  
i'll get up   and stair step for half an hour  
so  
it's i guess pretty pretty healthy  
but i don't have a regular plan that's  
i need to get started on that  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sleep  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
that'll come   some day when i  
right  
well i hope so  
yeah  
sounds good  
yeah  
you too  
have a nice day  
bye  
i do  
yes  
i uh uh i guess it actually changes  
i do a number of different things   simply walking with my wife  
and sometimes my daughter will come along on her little bicycle  
uh and then moving up i run   in the mornings  
not every morning it probably averages about two days a week  
and then with my wife i actually go to the gym and lift weights which isn't i understand quite exercising  
but it's along the lines  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
that's right  
right  
so you look at it more as a task  
right  
i see  
right  
right  
so i'm thirty two years old   which is probably different than yourself  
and so it's interesting that as you get older you begin to understand that you need to exercise  
my job at texas instruments i have to sit in front of a computer all day and make phone calls so that i don't get any exercise doing that  
and plus there's a build up of stress  
so i need to go out and take those walks after dinner  
and i need to go out in the morning and run  
or i'll just get nuts  
so that's kind of a motivator  
so even though i can look at it as a task the you know i kind of get the i get some kind of global benefit   from the whole thing by saying well i'm lowering my chance of heart attack and thus that type stuff  
sure  
that all  
i i do all that  
yeah  
right  
well it's a  
something as simple as a walk with my wife is very enjoyable  
i do that at the end of the day  
and it takes you know  
that that during that time the stress from the day goes away  
i get to share whatever i did with my wife and and vice versa  
going to the gym is is actually something different than than like  
oh and the running  
and i enjoy that too  
year  
i've been running since high school   on track teams and the like  
so running i i'm at that point which you probably get to after about six months of dedicated   running where you don't feel your muscles any more  
and you don't think about the pain of it  
you you you take the time to relax some how  
and you think about other things  
during those first few months you have to think about running and why your elbow hurts and   why you can't breathe and this and that  
and that's no fun  
and it's so hard to get past that for a lot of people  
yeah  
the the uh weight lifting on the other hand is actually you know  
i think i look better  
i have just a i don't i'm not a huge person  
i'm just a regular looking guy  
but just going to lift weights on occasion with my wife  
and my wife thinks the same thing about both me and herself   that get that little bit of definition in your muscles is is attractive  
so that pays also  
yeah  
so so i guess that aspect of that takes away the work   the with my wife which is nice  
i love her you know  
i enjoy being with her  
i guess that's one thing  
but also uh that that long term benefit of a little bit of tone in your muscles  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i don't i don't let that bother me  
but yeah  
that's something that comes with time too   you know  
i'll tell you the sit ups and push ups are excellent   you know  
it's your own  
you you're you're struggling against your own body weight  
you can have variety by putting your feet higher or lower by putting your arms further apart or closer together by doing them real quick or real slow  
and you can actually get a good  
you can i know in the push up at least you can get chest muscles and the back of your arms quite built up   just doing push ups  
oh is that right  
right  
yeah  
right  
that's funny  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know maybe not  
i'd say i'd say at twenty two you don't necessarily need a plan as long as you're getting getting the exercise otherwise  
when your life becomes sedentary is when you have to make yourself a   plan  
and what's real funny about plans is that there's a struggle between uh when you when you add something to your life when you add a plan to your life  
something else has to go away  
and that's the hard decision is okay if i'm going to run in the mornings what am i what do i trade it off for  
well the [answer's]   sleep right  
if i'm going to walk at night what do i trade it off for  
well star trek  
or you know it it it's always trade offs  
and you actually   have to as you get older you have to really think what can go and what to to to replace this thing  
it's i mean not just exercise but anything  
it's   very hard  
and uh i don't i don't think you should worry about not having a program yet  
yep  
yeah  
i guess if you care or if your wife your future wife uh gives you a reason to care   which helps  
well i think we covered it  
nice talking with you craig  
you too  
good day  
bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
i am too  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
and how old is your baby  
yes  
well i walk two and a half to three miles every night  
my husband and i were on [nutrisystem] about eighteen months ago  
and he lost sixty two pounds  
and i lost twenty one  
so we've decided to maintain our weight that we will do this exercise walking program  
and we walk our dog every night   and go up around the elementary school  
we have a little path that we do   and uh except if it's raining or real cold   which it hasn't been  
we try to get out uh every every night  
and he plays racquetball twice a week  
but i'm not into that  
so   i think the walking is enough to help us stay in shape and toned  
yes  
right  
that's right  
i know my kids are into sports  
and a lot of times tonight we won't finish with the football game till around nine thirty  
so we will just go out after that  
so my kids luckily are old enough i can leave them at home alone while i go out and walk  
yes  
yes  
no  
my husband never was either until he lost the weight  
that was his decision  
he had arthritis in his hips  
and his doctor said he needed to lose weight and exercise  
so once he got motivated now he's ready to walk every night  
and our dog has lost a little weight  
he walks every night too  
so he gets excited when he sees us put on our our shoes our walking shoes  
yes  
making time for it  
yes  
i know  
i do too  
right  
no  
i never do either even if i have my dog with me  
you know it's nice to have another person there  
but  
mostly it's my husband  
and sometimes it's my kids  
uh_huh  
me too  
i did the dance step when i lived up in   michigan  
and it just wore me out  
i would leave totally exhausted  
i never lost any weight  
and i got to the point i [dreaded] going in  
so walking seems to be a good solution for me  
and it doesn't cost anything  
yes  
that's the one time in the day my husband and i can get away and talk   without having the kids jump in and  
yep  
yep  
yep  
that's all i do too  
okay  
all right  
well i'm not a big [exerciser]  
but i kind of had to start after i had my baby because i wanted to lose that extra weight  
and so basically at this point i'm i'm a real walker  
are you  
i don't do that oh i guess i'll call it that fancy type walking where they kind of move their hips you know and   keep their arms up  
i don't do that  
i mostly just take a a walk around the block or with my baby  
or you know and i have to do that at least once a day if it   if it's going to make any effect on since i have to eat the same as i did before  
i can't neglect that because of the baby either  
she just uh well she was premature  
so she's about nine months now though  
times goes fast  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
well i think that is just wonderful  
now as far as i'm concerned i have several other children  
and so uh i think at this point to fit it into to other things it's kind of a task  
you know uh it's not to where i'm just so freed up that i i just go oh this is wonderful  
let's go  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now does your husband usually go with you then  
oh see now that's really nice  
because mine's at meetings sometimes  
and and he's not really into it  
so   i have to  
uh_huh  
i think that is so wonderful  
i bet  
i think that's really really good  
and and you know i think this after you've done it a certain amount of time it kind of does get to be a routine  
it's not  
like when i first started it you know that was the hardest thing was   to get ready and get out there  
but now if i haven't done it in a day or two or something i really notice that i haven't done it in a  
you know and i like the time because my kids sometimes they come with me  
and sometimes they don't  
and when they don't i i really notice you know how fun it can be when they come  
so uh i like to have somebody come with me  
uh i know most of enough of the people that if anything ever happened i could go to a home   around this block area  
so it it's not real dangerous  
but still i don't like to go alone  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
you know  
well i think that's great  
i and well sometimes when i i take my kids to the playground that's the only other exercise i i really think i do  
i was on an exercise program before where it was more like an aerobics type thing  
uh i found real quick that wasn't for me  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
and it gives me time to think  
so i think not only does it help my body  
but i think it helps my mind   too  
so i like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
need something  
and  
they can wait until you get back home  
well i think that's great  
well that's what i do for  
okay  
hi  
my name is donna  
and i'm calling calling from plano texas  
oh okay um  
i um find exercise kind of a task i guess i'd say  
i go to aerobics two days a week  
but i also have three kids at home  
so they keep me pretty busy  
yeah  
that gives me plenty of exercise  
but i enjoy um walking outside and bicycling once in a while with the family  
excuse me  
that's fine  
and yourself  
uh_huh  
every morning  
well my husband [swims] every day at lunch which he loves doing  
yeah  
he does it every day like a ritual  
once in a while or if he has a business meeting or if he um someone [invites] him to lunch he'll he'll not go  
but he goes um every every day  
and then he he's a runner too  
he runs three mornings a week  
he gets up about five and and   does his his deal  
and some days he doesn't  
but then maybe he'll catch up on the weekend and go for a run  
and um we  
oh  
the the the bicycling is nice especially with the weather around here  
and i know um uh we we both of my husband and i both do it to just keep the pounds off  
we're getting up in age i guess in our late thirties  
so we need to   keep exercising just to be able to uh  
oh i know  
yeah  
i go to this aerobics class two mornings a week  
and i take my three year old with me  
there's a nursery there  
and it's kind of another day out for her   to um have little friends  
and um i i enjoy the socialization of it you know  
getting to see the same women every   morning  
but um there are some parts during that exercise that i think i cannot do another   second of this  
it is  
that's true  
that's true  
well  
okay well  
yes  
thank you for participating  
thank you  
bye  
i'm jay in dallas  
that keeps you plenty of exercise  
well i uh i have  
i walked and run um almost every morning  
i've sort of stopped here with the weather change  
but uh it's about a thirty minute exercise every morning  
oh that would  
that's fantastic exercise  
um  
all right  
i'd rather get a bicycle  
but i have an i had an exercise bike in the house but didn't seem to use it enough  
so somebody sold it in a garage sale  
and so uh   but i'd like to get a bike and just do uh do biking outside  
yeah  
it keeps going  
because i'm fifty five  
and it uh it just gets worse  
you still want to eat  
and uh   but you just  
i think you feel better too if you get on some program like that  
but uh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
i know it it it some of it is so tough  
and uh especially when somebody's uh planning lunch for you and they know what what's good for you  
i think when we do it ourselves  
we take the easy way sometimes  
so  
so anyway  
thank you for calling  
all right  
bye bye  
well uh guess it's logical to ask do you exercise any  
i'm about the same way  
i i do a little bit  
my job kind of [hinders] me from exercising  
i'm a night operator here at a industry down here  
and i don't really get out a lot to because my job to to exercise  
right  
it is  
that's that's the way i feel  
i'm used to being in pretty good shape because when i was in high school i stayed in pretty good shape played a little basketball and stuff like that  
but i've got  
now i'm in college  
and i go to school during the day and work at night  
i can tell that i've not really done a whole lot  
well uh i usually i usually play at home  
we live out in the country  
so me and my brother play basketball and have a bunch of guys come over and play  
or a lot of times we're we're up at the church  
we'll play volleyball  
stuff like that  
oh really  
oh the sweating to the oldies  
oh really  
right  
right  
i'll  
oh really  
right  
that's the way i am  
i just want to sit down and relax  
too tired to exercise   i did  
i started riding my bike about a couple of months ago  
and i'd ride about two or three miles a day  
but but it would last about a couple of weeks  
and it got real cold for a little while  
so i gave it up  
walk around  
right  
right  
i've noticed people doing that down here too  
i'll be in town or something  
and people will walk around the mall  
it it is fairly safe  
yeah  
certain parts of it  
right  
right  
i used to do a lot of swimming  
we have we have a swimming pool  
but it's an old concrete pool  
we've been having trouble with it the past few years  
so we haven't got to use it much  
but i love to swim and water ski and stuff like that  
right  
right  
you can't do it year round  
right  
that's the way ours is  
oh no  
it's too cold  
i could deal with a hot tub  
those are nice  
i'm from [laurel]  
that's way down towards the south  
not quite on the coast  
but we're about two hours from the coast  
yes ma'am  
it it started about yesterday i believe  
it started raining and got real cold  
oh  
right  
well unfortunately very little  
uh much less than what i need to  
well i uh am an assistant teacher and uh in business technology  
and i've i think the most exercise i've gotten in the last three to four month is jumping up and down to go answer the kids' questions  
it keeps me pretty busy  
but it's not really the kind of exercise that gets your heart rate going  
and uh you know it really  
exercise is so important  
and i realize that  
when you uh exercise what do you do  
do you do it at home or a club  
or  
i got a hold of uh richard [simmons'] tape uh  
what is it uh  
i can't even think of the name of it right offhand with the oldies  
sweating with the to the oldies  
yeah  
and that's not bad  
that's pretty upbeat  
so you know i every once in a while i'll put the cassette in and go with it  
not often enough to have a routine  
my little schnauzer wishes i would get out and walk with her  
but uh i don't know  
by the time i get home all i want to do is just collapse or sit down at my computer  
and my fingers exercise more than anything now  
yes  
uh do you ever ride a bike or anything like that  
here about the the most common exercise for people is to go to the malls and walk uh  
because they're enclosed  
and no matter what the weather is they can walk   at a pretty good clip and and not have to worry about the weather summer or winter  
and it's safe  
that's uh you know inside the mall  
may be not safe going to the parking garage  
i know a doctor once told me it it  
a friend of mine uh suggested swimming   as being the best exercise there is  
the uh swimming they say uses more muscles than any other exercise with  
and the water takes the resistance  
right  
and you don't get the [soreness]  
i've i've done some water exercises  
but our pool is not is not heated  
so it's  
summertime only  
you don't go out when it's twenty some odd degrees   go out to the swimming pool  
hot [tubs] are not uh not too bad  
but  
so what part of mississippi are you from  
whereabouts is that  
oh  
and you do have cold weather down there  
ours started thanksgiving  
and uh from there just well  
today was pretty  
but uh-oh sunday the snow and ice came in  
and uh there was no exercise  
okay  
go ahead  
yeah  
don't do it  
well i tell you i i firmly believe in exercising  
i think it's a  
i do it every day on a regular basis  
i  
well i just got back from biking twelve and a half miles  
but this time of year you can't get much biking in uh  
but every morning i use this president's uh council of physical fitness  
and it really is uh uh it's worth doing  
and you can do it anywhere  
i i travel quite a bit in my   in my business  
and you can do it you know wherever you're at  
and if you do it  
i i do it every morning   after uh usually after breakfast before i take a shower and get you know dressed going   you know to go to work  
and uh now what i do  
i mean i've done this for you know like fifteen years  
so you don't start at this kind of regiment you know  
i  
so what i'm telling you isn't something you go out and do  
and and you'll hurt yourself uh  
every every uh  
it takes me about fifteen minutes to do this now because i do it all the time  
but i uh i do twenty five uh uh where you have your arms above your head and   and your body [twisters] touch right you know left and right toe  
and i do uh ten uh right and left uh trunk [twisters]  
and i do uh about sixty uh bicycle type uh leg [thrust] type things  
and i do uh twenty uh leg [lifters] on each side you know   when you're   laying on the floor  
and then i do fifty push ups and do a hundred sit ups  
and uh then i do about uh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
and then uh thirty uh  
now if you did football like the old grass [drills] where you're on your stomach and you  
you know prone type things where you're kind of rocking on your stomach type thing  
and that takes about really about maybe about thirteen minutes uh   in the morning  
well uh  
years ago i used to uh [referee] football  
and uh to stay in condition i did that uh just as a normal   basis  
and uh uh i tell you just by doing it uh  
well example this summer i i was about fifteen pounds heavier than i wanted to be  
so i i increased  
i do three hundred sit ups a day now but not at that in the morning  
i do a hundred then  
and then i do about a hundred before supper and about a hundred before i go to bed  
i lost fifteen pounds just by doing that because you tighten your stomach muscles  
and you know you can eat anything you want drink anything you want  
but you don't you know  
within reason you know you can lose weight or maintain your weight   and your physical being  
and uh i just you know  
you're ready to go at a  
i i i think it's really important  
good  
well that's why   chuck i think uh if you did it on a daily basis   and you didn't need elaborate things you know where you can make excuses like  
well i i like biking  
and during the summer i'll do you know at least seventy five miles a week   and when i really was doing it maybe a hundred and fifty  
but   you can't you know  
there's excuses weather  
or you don't have time or something like that  
but if you do some basic exercises and you say every morning just like brushing your teeth you're going to spend fifteen minutes or a half hour   and you get up a half hour earlier  
and once you start getting into that one you just feel good  
and you look a whole lot better  
unfortunately not  
and there's no way i can get her to  
it's a like it's something you either just really want to do it  
or you can't talk anyone into it  
if you don't like to exercise you know it isn't going to happen  
i i sure wish she would  
she's you know unfortunately overweight  
and but she's a wonderful woman  
and   you know no sense getting in arguments with anybody about it  
well  
no problem at all  
and uh if you get one of these mats   you know go to a store they normally have these exercise things these a b c of physical fitness on them  
one of my kids got me one of those for christmas one year  
and uh  
it it it's just an exercise [mat] that rolls up  
so you can put it up you know just in the corner  
well yeah  
you can do that  
but but it doesn't  
yeah  
it's a foam thing  
yeah  
yeah  
and it's it's just about six feet long rolls up  
and i don't take it on trips with me  
i you could  
but uh i don't mind uh you know  
if i do like sit ups i'll throw a a towel down or something   you know  
so you don't have the [abrasive]  
well i i uh we're going to compare notes uh  
i uh i   often desire to exercise often believe i should and rarely do  
what what what sort of of regiment do you have  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
right  
my goodness  
you do all of this in fifteen minutes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now what what keeps you doing that  
i mean i i sometimes start little much less much more modest efforts  
but i give up  
i just find them boring  
hard to   find the time for it on a given day  
and  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yep  
well i i whenever i do it i feel good   i mean good that i have done good because it's it seems right and good because it has good effects  
but but it's this maintaining a a regular habit that i just can't   seem to do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
do you do you does your wife participate in any of this  
or  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i uh i keep saying if somebody else would do it with me i that would be little bit of peer pressure would help considerably  
but you seemed to have solved that problem without any any external   help  
yeah  
what what what what's on what's this [mat] i mean  
is it like the sort of thing you take on a camping trip   and sleep on it  
i mean it's that it's that kind of like   half inch of foam or something  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well do you exercise regularly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that is good  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh well i use to exercise regularly  
and i haven't lately  
i have goofed off i guess  
uh i use to also take an aerobics class about three days a week before work  
but uh i guess my job change my husband's job change and it is just not easy to get up early in the morning any more  
so uh  
well the problem is that i am so tired at the end of the day  
i just want to go home and not do anything  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is right  
that is right  
that is a  
uh_huh  
well i know some people go during lunch  
but you know by the time i get over the gym and and go for my class and shower and get back to work it is probably two hours or more  
and that is just too long  
yeah  
that doesn't really do it does it  
yeah  
yeah  
that is right  
that is right  
well that is not much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
that is not bad  
it beats [memberships] at some of these clubs  
that is for sure  
they are real expensive  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well we have one through work  
and its its probably about a hundred and fifty dollars a year which is bad  
but i uh i don't know  
i still just don't don't end up going cause it isn't at a convenient time or i don't know something  
but i need to do something  
if if its only walk the dog or something  
i need to start doing that  
that is right  
uh_huh  
okay  
there is  
well i am a school teacher  
and us  
there is uh uh girl that went through our school district i teach in highland park   who uh does aerobics at the y c a   and i say y the y w c a  
turn that off please  
i am recording  
my husband just turned on something noisy  
any way uh she comes to the school  
and there are a group of teachers  
and we exercise   regularly and uh for an hour  
and we do it twice a week  
and uh we do uh aerobics for our cardiovascular fitness for thirty minutes  
and then we do stretching   and toning and cool down   for another thirty minutes  
so it is an hour  
and then my husband and i take uh ten mile walks uh as often as possible  
and uh not on the nights that i do aerobics  
but if if he wants to he [jogs]  
but i uh i we take the fast walks  
and we walk a couple of miles and then come back to the house  
and so we we take it seriously  
we enjoy doing it  
i enjoy my group at school  
it is a lot more fun to exercise with somebody   than is is to do it by yourself  
oh oh  
uh_huh  
oh i understand that  
i have never been able to do it before  
well i and too i just make myself  
i get up at five thirty  
and i am at school at seven thirty  
school is not over until uh four  
and our class  
but it is in the building  
that is the big difference  
because there are other people around that uh  
you had better hurry  
go get dressed  
you know there is motivation around there  
and then uh we we can change right there in the building  
i don't have to drive and fight traffic and get anywhere  
and i just go  
and we uh exercise  
and until then you know i have belonged to exercise clubs  
and oh i have gone to uh-oh like uh-oh these gyms you know that the like in plano and richardson and uh where they offer the uh rec centers really   where they offer aerobics  
and i have done that before but it has always had to be late at night   after i have got home and after dinner  
and you are just kind of going ugh  
and i have tried it immediately after school  
like try to get some place and exercise from five to six  
but then by the time you get home and you get dinner you are eating so late  
it is  
it is really hard with our life style when you work to  
uh_huh  
i have twenty five minutes for lunch  
that is out for me  
no  
i don't think so  
but uh and they are nice because if we are running late it usually uh  
if things are kind of hectic at school and people are running late they kind of wait on us  
you know cause they know we are in the building and coming   where as at uh another place you are paying a lot more money  
and uh it does going to start whether you are there or not  
so this has worked out real nicely  
in fact she charges us two dollars a session  
huh_uh  
so it's it's  
we like pay her for six weeks at a time   cause that is like a unit in uh uh school   uh report card period  
and so it is like twenty four dollars every six weeks  
huh_uh  
you are not kidding  
i know  
we belonged uh for a period of time to the signature club for about a year  
i mean we were paying a hundred dollars plus month for our family membership  
and at first we used it  
and then it got where we weren't beginning to get out money's worth  
and they offered lots of things  
but we weren't taking advantage of them because we didn't have the time to  
so we decided to forget that  
that was just a waste of our our money  
oh no  
uh_huh  
it does make you feel better  
the hard thing is getting going  
and if you have somebody who will do it with you  
like for a long time my husband didn't want to walk cause he wants to uh jog  
but he decided that uh maybe uh you know  
of a exercise program you have   right  
well swimming is uh one of the best exercises you can do   i mean   as far as for uh cardiovascular  
and   and it's   least hard on your body  
i  
it's the least hard on your body   as far as uh impact  
and  
right  
right  
well i do uh little aerobics oh three or four times a week  
but it's not enough to  
boy if i go in the summer time i try to jog jog a couple of miles  
and uh well you know even doing that three or four times a week when summer hits that's a hard thing to go out and   and go jogging for uh   half hour or so  
but   so i'm not quite getting the level that i need to  
i like it  
i like it uh  
part of my problem is i have small children  
so uh to do a whole lot just requires a lot of oh coordination as far as   scheduling and   that type of uh deal you know uh  
when you're in college boy   you got a hundred things going on  
of course you got a little different direction going  
but uh  
right  
you don't notice it   as much  
yeah  
you feel it don't you  
it's amazing how uh how much uh it changes  
and i weigh probably about the same i weighed for oh i don't know how many years  
but uh it's changed places  
and things don't fit just quite exactly   fit the same  
but uh so do you do uh  
in texas uh does  
there probably quite a few facilities  
do you enjoy it  
or is it uh  
if you can have find the time   it's just the  
yeah  
it is hard  
it is hard  
it's uh like anything else whether or not you want to   sacrifice another half hour  
my problem is i don't want to wake up another half hour earlier   and do more  
don't get enough sleep as it is  
right  
and uh kind of have  
if you're having the pressures of school and uh everything else it's kind of  
course it's really you know  
as soon as you do it it's really a release  
you feel [invigorated]  
and you feel   oh you feel in a lot better shape   just like eating right foods  
if i eat very much sugar boy just does something  
i do  
i have to be real careful  
did you  
makes a lot of difference  
well there's a lot of fat in meat  
right  
and unless you really like uh fish  
fish is pretty good for you  
but uh  
kind of see what happens  
i've tried to do that with sugar  
and   it's almost impossible  
everything has sugar in it  
i mean if you go  
your ketchup has sugar in it  
course  
and i like sugar too  
that's   that's a problem  
but  
anyway well it's uh nice talking to you  
think we've uh covered all the subject  
okay  
well you too  
good luck uh  
enjoy college while you can  
let me tell you it's uh  
it's a little different uh   challenge isn't it  
where are you going   studying  
right  
well um i have a a a former exercise program  
i'm a graduate student  
and this semester i'll tell you what i it's been almost impossible for me to get you know back to regular exercise  
um last summer i was a a swim instructor all summer and and life guard  
so it was really easy for me to get quite a bit of exercise swimming  
and um and since i worked at a recreation center i could uh you know use those facilities quite often  
but um  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
and there's   and there's no jarring on the  
pardon  
exactly yeah  
um  
yeah  
fluid resistance  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how about you  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do you do you kind of think it's a chore  
or do you enjoy it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i um i used to uh i used to weigh uh two hundred fifteen pounds  
and now i weigh only about one about one seventy five um  
so i drastically had to change the way i ate when i when i first moved to college  
and uh i had started weight lifting quite regularly  
and so i got my weight down  
and it's kind of easy for me to forget about it now because uh you know when i'm not fat like i used to be   i don't worry about it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
although lately i have noticed you know even if i gain like two pounds i start i start feeling it  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there are  
um i'm living in a dorm right now  
and so right downstairs there's a facility  
and i really feel kind of guilty for not working out more than i do because there's a facility right downstairs where all you know all we have to do is is uh run down there  
and   i really do if i have the time to  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i really do because i like to get you know get off alone and just do that for a while  
but that's hard you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
ready to go another twelve hours  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you have to watch what you eat pretty regularly  
uh_huh  
i stopped eating meat about oh uh must have been eight months ago  
uh_huh  
completely  
i mean any kind of meat  
or and i and i really feel a lot better now  
yeah  
it really does  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's it i mean that's about where almost all of the fat comes from  
and so i found that really helps  
yeah  
i eat that  
i think i've eaten fish like twice since  
i used to eat a lot of fish too  
but i just tried to cut it all out for a while and see what happens  
yeah  
and i like it  
i don't know if i'm that brave yet  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
yeah  
it sounds good  
well good luck to you there in idaho  
well i'm in graduate school now  
i i i kind of feel like i wish i could have gone back to undergraduate now  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
well it's good talking  
pardon  
i'm studying speech pathology  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they set that up for you  
uh_huh  
and uh what kind of running do you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is is just aerobics  
or  
no  
uh i mean the running  
you do it you do a mile in about eight minutes or less  
uh_huh  
yeah  
then you wouldn't then you don't get uh out of breath  
oh  
oh  
but i mean it's not pushing it real hard like you know if you tried to make six or something like that  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i don't run much any more  
i did when i was in school  
right now i just lift uh weights and do push ups and sit ups  
and and i uh jump rope a little bit  
and that is about it  
and i don't i don't lift any heavy weight uh  
they are about a third of my body weight  
yeah  
and uh uh i play the trumpet  
and the uh the more upper body strength the easier it is to play  
you have to do a whole lot of sit ups  
and uh and then uh i hurt my neck uh about three years ago  
so you really have to build up around your neck and your shoulders to keep from uh hurting yourself when you play high  
you have to you have to do it correctly you know  
it is like an exercise in itself  
but a lot of people uh strain themselves doing it  
uh i play at church  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
uh well the weather is nice except for when it rains you know   i mean in dallas  
yeah  
i keep thinking about it  
but that doesn't mean it gets done  
i i mostly jump rope more  
you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i do a toe lift and [squats]   for that  
but you know it it doesn't uh doesn't uh accustom your legs to the kind of strength that you have like when you are running for a long time  
they tend to tighten up whenever whenever you have to do something   at uh uh great length of time  
and it also builds too much mass if you just you know  
so it is like i i lift weights with about the same [curl] weight as i do the [squats] with  
and uh then it doesn't bother me very much  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is uh i have started doing more push ups  
and and it has helped a lot  
and then i add sets to it   so that i don't like you said wear it out  
i don't try to push it so the end   in one set  
all right  
uh exercise huh  
uh as a matter fact i work out in the mornings  
i belong to presidents  
and uh i have got a routine for every morning of the week  
and i don't work out on saturday or sunday  
but uh i do i do a combination of uh uh running and weight training  
no  
i uh actually i just uh joined on my own  
and i have been thinking about getting with a uh one of their counselors just so see what uh they might have to offer   as far as uh alternatives  
but i pretty much uh worked on my own routine  
they have got the track on the inside  
and uh i run one mile on monday wednesdays and fridays  
and then on tuesdays and thursdays i run two miles  
and then after that i work out with weights  
uh i work out with free weights  
oh uh yeah  
it is really the uh aerobic work out part  
uh about seven minutes  
uh no  
i do  
yeah  
that is that is a pretty good clip  
and i am pretty [winded] by the time i get done  
so  
oh yeah  
i i uh could probably go faster  
but then i would wear myself out  
and i wouldn't be able to work out anything else  
yeah  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i see  
so this uh  
do you just try and keep them i guess uh firm and uh  
yeah  
uh that is true  
yeah  
oh i see  
oh i see  
uh so you are in uh in part of a band  
oh i see  
i see  
i use to play an instrument when i was in high school  
but it wasn't the trumpet  
so i was just wandering if that was what it was or something  
i think  
so do you have any plans of maybe running more when the weather gets nicer  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i use to do a little bit of jumping rope uh when i was uh  
well a while back i was more into basketball  
and uh i could do a lot of jump rope and other jumping exercises to try to build my [calves]  
and uh but it has been a while since i have done that  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i uh that is true  
i have noticed that uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
huh that is interesting though  
uh i have been thinking of changing uh  
i have done the same routine for almost two years now  
and i am thinking of uh changing it up  
uh that is why well you know i was thinking to talking to one of their counselors and seeing what different exercises they could get me on to uh get out of the routine  
because i have heard that you know you get locked into a routine then you are going to get to a point where you just stop developing  
so i am looking at changing things a little bit  
uh_huh  
yeah  
ok  
i was watching the soap opera awards  
and uh it is really making me want to exercise  
because every single woman in the audience is uh about ten pounds  
so uh i started [anchoring] last uh [anchoring] uh   exercising last about last spring when i uh joined the president's health club  
and i was really motivated and going  
and uh i went uh for a little while uh  
i went pretty regular  
but it is hard to go regularly for a long time  
and where i live in waco uh they do not have anywhere here that is affiliated with president's  
so now i do not have a club  
and i am uh i do not have any motivation to just go out and jog [aimlessly] or something like that  
so i am not exercising at the time at the moment  
so i wish i could  
i wish i did have the motivation to get out and do that  
but i just do not like just running with no where to go  
i just cannot do that  
so  
uh_huh  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think a lot of the times if you have someone to uh work out with or walk with or something it does give you that motivation  
and you can also i mean you can you know pretty much do it [privately] if you had your own private uh sort of contest you know   where you would try and see if you could lose more weight than your friend or something like that  
and that would keep you going  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
that is very true  
it seems like you walk quicker  
you just  
[perky] is a good word for it   when you exercise  
and i understand that walking is suppose to be the like the best exercise  
better than running  
things like that  
cause it it works everything  
and it gets your breathing up  
and it doesn't  
yeah  
it doesn't hurt you  
like i understand running hurt your [shins] or knees or something like that  
so  
wow  
wow  
yeah  
uh-oh  
i guess my my favorite exercise in the uh in the gym is the bikes  
to go  
yeah  
there are these [stationery] bikes that you just ride  
and if you watch television they usually have television in there or something or if you listen to a [walkman] it is pretty it is pretty okay  
again that is sort of weird because you you are not going anywhere  
and uh i use to play racquetball  
and i really liked that because you know to me it had a point  
you know uh there were points you could you would make  
and there was a point to it  
but running and jogging and just not going anywhere is just  
i don't like that  
i just can't understand that  
so i don't do  
uh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know a lot of people just to be safe  
like you were talking about walking at night and in the morning   or early in the morning uh  
you see a lot of uh mostly older people though but that uh walk in the malls  
you know like early in the mornings and things like that  
i have never tried that  
i don't know  
you know i have never even thought about it really  
uh  
oh  
uh_huh  
and that is a little less  
ok  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i understand that  
i have been trying to get myself motivated  
i had gone gotten up regularly for awhile with a neighbor uh  
she had injured her back and needed a walking partner  
and i thought that would be the time to get going  
and so we walked pretty steadily for about three weeks  
and uh then she had to get back to work and which was traveling to new york  
and so she is not around  
and i just don't like walking by myself at night or in the dark of the morning  
i don't seem to find time in the day time  
and of course it is motivation that is keeping me from really looking for that opportunity  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well more than weight  
of course i could lose uh lose certainly   from ten to twenty pounds  
but i think more than that  
i also notice i just feel better when i exercise  
and that is something that i am motivated about now because i do need to get myself feeling better   just in better shape  
but uh all the same it is connected to my attitude  
because i am not feeling as [perky] and good  
i am also  
it is hard to get my attitude to uh to get myself up there  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and you have   less chance   of hurting yourself  
yeah  
last time i tried running with my daughter cause she is supposed to be jogging in p e  
and it felt good  
but then i had pulled a muscle in my knee  
actually i hyper extended it or something  
and uh   boy  
i was suffering for about three weeks later  
so and i have never had that problem before  
but i guess that age just starts to catch up to me  
it is showing up in the weirdest places  
oh is it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i have got a dog now  
and of course she needs walking  
and that is a little less uh [burdensome] or boring to be walking at least with her  
and i can put on the [earphones] to have something to listen to  
and  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that is kind of an idea  
we we have uh over here in plano a little recreation center that has got uh a walking track  
that it is also for security as well as the convenience of doing it any time of the year  
but i find it very tedious because i am watching the clock constantly  
and it   there is just nothing else to look at  
and i actually get more tired doing that than  
i could walk for three or four miles out in the neighborhood here and feel real good  
there i could barely make a couple of miles  
i'm ready  
do you exercise uh during the day time   or go to a gym or anything  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i try to do it at night before i go to bed  
um it's really weird  
because i'll get down on the floor  
and i'll holler and tell my cat nikki  
i'll say nikki i'm going to do my exercises   now  
and she can be upstairs in the bedroom  
and i don't know  
she knows what i'm talking about  
you know pretty soon here she comes  
so i lay out there in the living room floor and do my exercises you know  
uh i had a problem with my back  
so when i went to physical therapy   they gave me some exercises for my back  
so i just try to keep that up because it seems like if i don't then then my back gives me a problem again  
so i try to do it every night  
and uh  
yeah  
it seems like it's you know  
i can tell when i do it and when i don't do it   you know  
so you know it's got to be good for you  
but um a long time ago i belonged to a gym  
but uh now i notice that this in this small city that i live in they do have a a gym that just opened up here about a month ago  
so i was kind of thinking about joining it  
but i haven't even gone down there and talked to them yet  
but uh it does really make you feel good  
and i like to bicycle too  
so that gives you you know lots of exercise  
so  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
otherwise you wouldn't be able to go very far huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well like i say i just do it at night you know  
and um  
do you like you try try to get my stomach muscles toned up  
you know because boy they seem like they really get out of shape  
and once you get out of shape it's hard to get back into shape   you know  
so i've just been doing it i try to do it every night   you know  
like i say you just i'd rather do that than watch television anyhow   you know  
so it's just kind of nice and especially when i have my cat that comes down and [joins] me  
you know so well i guess that's about all i can tell you about my exercising  
i wish i knew how to swim  
but i don't  
so i don't go swimming  
uh_huh  
but they do say that swimming is really really good for you   you know for every part of your body  
so i wished i i wished i did know how to do that  
if they had a pool here in patterson i'd probably you know put my bathing suit on and go down there  
but they don't have a pool in this small city either  
so well listen then  
it's been nice talking to you  
okay then  
bye bye  
all right  
oh  
yeah  
i i used to go to a gym um last summer  
but then i started school again  
so it's um so i don't exercise as much as i'd like  
but i i do enjoy um going to a gym and working out  
or just like i do sit ups sometimes before i go to bed or when i wake up  
and i ride a exercise bike a lot  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it does  
yeah  
i enjoy that a lot  
i um bike in the summer  
i belong to a biking club here in kenosha  
and um we go on a like fifty to a hundred miles every sunday  
so i try to keep up in the winter with the exercise bike so i you know can be in shape  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
i go with my dad  
he exercises a lot more than i do though  
oh yeah  
he's   always exercising  
but i'm not that [energetic]  
i get lazy sometimes  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's what i like to do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
wow  
oh yeah  
that is neat  
yeah  
um i don't swim much neither  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh um  
yeah  
nice talking to you  
okay  
um bye  
okay  
martin do you do any exercise  
uh_huh  
um so those are more or less indoor sports  
how's the   weather out there in georgia  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
i'm on a exercise program  
i'm riding my [aerodyne] bike um   half an hour every morning  
and i'm just about ready to up it to up to forty five minutes a morning  
and i feel like that's been a real nice exercise in the winter time  
it's   it's kind of kept me from getting cabin fever and um has seemed to be a real nice aerobic exercise  
no  
huh_uh  
i first of all i'd like to get my weight off  
i'm about fifty pounds overweight  
and so i'd like to get the weight off  
and then i'd really like to get into that  
and uh we have a my husband and i have a a aerobic video that's called the firm  
i don't know if you've heard of it  
but it's a an aerobic video with not necessarily bouncing around and jumping up and down  
but you're using weights  
and that is the most incredible aerobic workout i have ever done  
it's   it's really fun  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
um no  
i mean yes  
i am  
but i have never done it myself  
have you done that  
oh  
that's the big thing huh  
oh  
so how is that  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
now if um playing basketball are you knees  
do you have healthy knees  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
well that sounds you sound just like my husband  
he   he injured his ankle about seven months ago playing volleyball  
and oh he's just had a heck of a time getting that ankle healthy  
so that's what he does  
he wears his his brace and his high tops  
and  
oh  
oh  
wow  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
oh  
it is amazing how fast you take off the inches  
and i would once i start my i'd like to do the forty five minutes a day on the bike for a week  
and then every other day i'd like to incorporate the video and then the bike on the other day  
but it is really amazing how fast the inches come off  
and the muscle builds   real fast  
um you can start  
they recommend doing the video without weights for the first month  
and then after that you can just start with your five pound [dumbbells] and then build up to your uh twenty five pound [dumbbells]  
and then you're just doing repetitious exercises throughout the whole video  
and it's a hour long video  
so  
it is  
yeah  
i really enjoy that  
so i'm looking forward to losing this weight and   being firm and healthy  
yes  
yes  
now this one has been quite mild  
um we could have been out walking throughout the whole winter because really we only had about three weeks of snow on the ground  
it was quite chilly  
but not  
yes  
i do  
uh i like to uh play basketball and weight lifting  
those are probably the two main things i like to do  
yeah  
um in in in the winter you typically it's it's probably too cold to go out and do things like tennis  
um i like to play tennis in the   summer time or in the spring fall  
but in the winter it gets pretty cold  
um yeah  
so it's mostly indoor sports i think in the winter  
um how about yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
do you do uh any [anaerobic] type weight lifting or weight training type exercise  
uh_huh  
huh  
yes  
it's it's it's it's similar to aerobics with weights  
but it's like low impact aerobics just   with weights  
okay  
are you familiar with um step or bench aerobics  
uh yes  
i have  
in in atlanta that's um  
most of the health clubs   are all  
that's the that's the in thing  
at first it was just regular aerobics  
but now bench or step aerobics have   kind of taken over  
um it they call it a low impact aerobics  
and it's supposed to burn off more calories   at the same time  
and from when i've done it it does give you a good a real good workout  
but only thing i'm concerned about is potential for injury to your knees   you know that and movement of going up on the step   you know that could create a problem  
they they seem to think that it it won't  
but you never know  
yeah  
i i think my ankles probably are my main weak point  
but i've i've kind of taken care of that  
i wear high tops and then also an a support ankle brace which is very stiff  
and um wearing that i haven't had any problems in the past year or so  
yeah  
yeah  
i  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i did i injured mine so many times that   [rehabilitating] became quite easy  
i mean it would only take three or four days  
and i could play again on it   because after a while you just learn how to rehabilitate yourself   to play that way  
but um so how how successful is your exercise video  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so it's a good workout  
uh_huh  
so in the winter i guess there's a lot of  
it's quite cold and   snow  
kay  
i guess we're talking about exercise huh  
oh i am twenty seven  
you do  
what type of exercise do you do  
oh you do  
yes  
are they different from aerobics  
or is it the same thing  
and you do that every day  
or  
oh okay  
and this is a club  
or uh do you belong to a group  
do you go with friends  
or do you go alone  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
young mothers or  
uh_huh  
uh i really don't have a routine  
i like playing basketball  
we just bought a new home with a basketball [hoop]  
and   that's what i do every day  
yeah  
pretty much  
when my wife let's me  
no  
i just shoot around by myself  
and uh that's about it  
i use to play soccer a lot in high school  
but when i graduated i haven't done much  
i don't have a problem  
i know i have to do more aerobics  
but i don't have a problem with weight  
i could eat all day and not gain an ounce  
uh_huh  
you do exercise  
you do it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i  
well everyone's told me my waist line is going to expand one of these days  
but i don't know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess i enjoy sports a lot  
so that's why i've kept active in that way  
uh basketball  
volleyball uh  
too bad it's not really heavy as far as recreation or hobby  
i do that  
uh i use to  
but it got too expensive  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
a lot of people do that  
and but well i just i never find the time  
i had rather do other things  
oh they come up here  
that's in nevada  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
but  
there's snow bird or [alta]  
heavenly  
huh i've never heard of that one  
huh_uh  
do they exercise much or i mean for skiing  
i know when i went you can get sore easily  
but  
oh yeah  
is one or two timer a year if i do go on them  
and i am really sore after  
yeah  
my legs really really [ache]  
but that's  
i am using muscles that i have never used before  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
well first of all i i have to ask you how how old you are  
twenty seven  
okay  
well i am quite a bit older than you are  
but no  
i think exercise is extremely important  
and i i do exercise on a regular basis  
well i do uh jazzercise   which is an aerobic uh program that  
are you familiar with it  
it's uh you know a national company  
and we have a jazzercise center here in plano that has classes like all day long  
so you can  
no  
it's really it's an aerobic routine  
you warm up  
and then you have thirty minutes of aerobic activity starting you know slowly and then working up to uh you know a high heart rate  
and then you gradually go down again  
no  
i only do it probably two or three times a week  
the minimum they want you to do is three times a week  
well it's really a  
i mean it's called a center  
and you buy as many classes as you want to at a time  
and then you just go in whenever you can  
so like i usually choose to go at nine thirty in the morning or a nine fifteen class or a ten thirty class in the mornings  
no  
i go by myself  
and that's one of the frustrating things cause i can find very few people to go with me  
and most of my friends that are my age don't exercise  
or they might play tennis  
and since i am not a tennis player uh you know i don't get that  
but i am you know i am between i am in my late forties  
so uh there aren't many people you know that want to do that  
most of the people that are in the classes are young mothers you know with with children between the ages  
young mothers  
you know young women   with small children   are the ones that i find  
well what do you do  
oh great  
yeah  
do you play every day  
well now who do you play with  
do you have friends that play with you  
or just  
yeah  
well see that's that's really good  
and i think that keeps a lot some people from exercising  
i mean i don't have a problem with weight either  
but i think i don't have a problem because i exercise   you know  
i mean people are always saying to me how do you stay thin  
and it's because i exercise  
but i also watch what i eat   you know  
but you'll come  
being twenty seven you don't really have to worry about your heart rate and that yet  
but as you get older you will  
well it might not  
mine  
because everybody's been telling me that too  
and so far it hasn't happened you know  
and i i just feel like you know you have to constantly weigh yourself   and just keep an eye on it and cut back if it starts to get you know too high  
yeah  
but you don't play any other sports but basketball  
but do you ski  
being in utah i was wondering if you ski  
oh did it really  
cause i know that skiing in utah is is suppose to be great  
yeah  
yeah  
well i have never skied before  
but i have friends that go to utah all the time  
and they think it's really  
and they ski  
i guess there's a place where you can ski  
well is it [tahoe] where you ski from  
no  
that's nevada to california   i guess  
yeah  
i am thinking about where you can ski over the state line  
but there's a there is a place in utah called a funny name  
but it's like oh heavenly  
is that it  
yeah  
i think it's called heavenly  
you've never heard of that  
well maybe it isn't in utah  
but they said they've skied heavenly  
and it sounded like you know that they skied really well and when they are actually talking about a place  
it's kind of funny  
oh yeah  
you can get really sore  
i know you  
i mean i've talked to people  
but most of these people ski enough so that they don't get sore  
and then is it your [quadriceps] that are the worst  
in your legs and  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
and it's strange that you can do like i did aerobics you know all the time  
and then i went horseback riding  
and still i was so sore  
and i couldn't get over  
you want to go first  
really  
well yeah  
i do a lot of exercise  
right now i'm into jazzercise which i absolutely love  
uh i started about two years ago because i gained some weight over the past few years  
and i wanted to get it back off  
and i was going through a divorce  
and i just found that running really made me feel good  
got out a lot of aggression  
i went to the gym every day  
and i ran on the treadmill and rode the bike  
and uh i felt really good  
i needed to do it  
and it was really helpful at the time  
now when i do those things they're boring  
i would rather be outside then in the gym doing this in one place  
and so i just recently discovered jazzercise about two months ago  
and i'm getting to be a good [dancer] from it  
and i'm just feeling really good  
i love the class  
it's real challenging  
so i'm really into that  
i really like that a lot  
it is it's aerobics  
but it's with dance steps  
it's an aerobic exercise  
and it's an hour straight  
and it's just uh it's a lot of fun  
i feel like i'm not just exercising   because i'm dancing  
and i'm i'm getting much better  
my stamina is getting great for the dance floor  
so   i mean it's just  
there's a lot of positive things with it  
so  
it is inside  
and i've   been doing a lot of bike riding outside with the nice weather we've been having  
and i just enjoy that much more too than inside  
i have a thirteen year old daughter  
and so we go bike riding  
and it's nice  
we get   to spend some time together rather than i go to the gym while she does her homework  
so i've enjoyed that part of it  
yeah  
and at the gym even in the class uh i  
it's not really a group where you chat a lot  
everybody's on their way to someplace  
and so you know i do   have one friend who goes occasionally  
but basically i do it by myself in a group of maybe forty  
so  
there are there are  
it's more motivating that way i think  
yeah  
you could get a tape probably and do it at home in front of the t v  
but  
you probably wouldn't  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i can see it'll be a good break  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i think you do  
you feel very good after you exercise  
i think   it's worth making the time for yourself  
you owe it to yourself  
and i think you do accomplish more after that  
and i think that it's just is good for your self esteem for everything because when you look better you feel better  
and it's just uh  
i think it's well worth it  
i just demand that time for myself  
now i've learned to do that  
and you know and it's i think it just benefits you all around  
so  
you have to  
because   there's always more things to do  
there is always things that you can make priority to it  
but i just i don't demand a lot for myself  
and so   you know i just feel entitled to it  
and i take it  
so  
no  
i've done some walking with friends in the past  
but i find that when you do that you do more chatting than you do   exercise  
and that's not really beneficial  
so uh   i don't have time like that  
and i spend enough time chatting around everywhere you know  
well uh no  
i i don't get as much exercise as i as i should as or as i would like to uh uh these days  
i  
seems to be to easy to get busy with other things  
uh i have in the past uh [jogged] and and run  
and every every january and every september i start out again  
and then it [tapers] off  
uh what about you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well now that is that uh that's related to the the aerobic uh  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh okay  
now that's inside again  
right  
but  
do do you like to do it with other people  
i mean like the the jazzercise would be  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
but  
yeah  
right  
right  
but still there are there are other people there doing the doing the same thing  
in terms of motivation and incentive  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh that makes a difference doesn't it  
i i've  
one thing  
when when i have run and [jogged] uh  
i've always enjoyed doing it by myself  
and and  
not with the sense that it was uh uh chore or something that i was having to do  
i i've really enjoyed just the activity  
and uh i write software uh as far as the job  
and so getting out and being active uh is uh uh helps out  
the  
it's  
the the the change of pace and just   getting out and around  
and i find that i can often you know  
often uh when i get around to doing it then i i feel better when i get back to work  
and uh uh also that that it my [subconscious] is working on things while i'm working  
and i i go back  
and i've got new ideas  
but still  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's uh i think that's a good term demanding the time for yourself  
that you've just got to   you've just got to  
right  
yeah  
well good  
well good  
well uh uh have you have you done any jogging  
i tell you you said you did on the bike and on the treadmill in in the uh club  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  

well my exercise program consists of uh you know  
it's it's a opportunity to stay alive really   instead of you know wasting my my the you know the trying to exist on the [latency] of my youth the good health of my youth  
i'm  
and what i like to do is i like to stretch out  
and i like to run uh  
i'm i like to run get my heartbeat up  
i like to run about oh about two two and a half miles  
and then i like to work out on uh on the uh the [bailey] life cycle machines up here at the at the holiday spa  
and and i i think that you know  
i've had a regiment now for about you know ten fifteen years of of doing that  
and uh and i i kind of think it's uh it's a lot of work  
but i think it's uh it's a lot of work  
but i think it's uh it's the uh the amount of effort that's required to uh to stay healthy you know  
i have a sedentary job  
and uh unless you do something like that you're going to get sick  
well i uh two years ago i started having trouble with my knee  
and uh you know i've got you know  
i figured well it'll go away  
well i you know i'm i've had to reduce my program reduce my program  
and i've gained fifteen pounds  
and so uh you know it's you know  
i need to get back into swimming you know instead of running  
if i can't swim or i can't run i should be able to swim  
well i'm such a terrible swimmer  
and i i i really feel i can i can dedicate about an hour an hour and fifteen minutes to this effort  
but if it gets longer than that i i it i start not doing anything  
and so so i got a real problem in that regard  
uh it  
do  
you obviously are are not an exercise buff or else you'd be out there doing it  
well it's it's always a chore  
i mean   i started doing this when i was about thirty five  
and now i'm fifty five  
and uh you know i i know that in i just know that i'm going to get blown away with some some piece of nonsense  
you know some health related thing is going to blow me away  
that's the same way  
i got too much weight on right now  
i   need to lose fifty pounds you know  
i need to lose at least twenty you know  
but uh you know it's it's just uh i'm busy  
i'm doing a lot of traveling  
and uh it it creates a problem uh you know when you're on the road  
what sort of uh uh what other programs other than say running  
have you have you ever done anything at all  
uh_huh  
club what club are you with  
what club were you with  
oh okay  
so you're you're down you're downtown  
okay  
yeah  
you're down there on you know twentieth and eighteenth and   f g  
oh  
well i'd uh  
well there's a there's a holiday spa down there on on k street i think something like that  
but uh i i go to the holiday spa here in [alexandria]  
and that's pretty good  
but you know evening time it gets pretty busy  
but generally you know i can i can get in and get a program you know  
but uh you know i i need to i need to [rededicate] myself to uh to doing this  
and uh i got a problem uh you know ever since my knee went bad of getting back [solidly] into it  
i mean i've been doing this for fifteen twenty years  
and you know and i'm i know i'm going to get i know it's going to bite me in the ass  
and so i i really don't want to want to uh you know back off on it  
well no  
when you're young   you you can abuse your your all your systems  
and you can recover  
uh when you get to be my age and you start abusing your systems you get blown away   and just wind up having to kiss your ass good bye you know  
and uh and so the object  
huh  
right  
yeah  
i'm i need to get  
i'm i'm pretty bad about that  
i'm lazy  
i should i know  
i want i always say that i need to get start running  
and i'm going to try and do that this summer  
because i never have time  
i i always put it off  
by the time i get back from classes it's late at night  
and i don't feel like going back over to the gym and running on the track or whatever  
because i'm i'm getting a gut here  
i got to get back into shape  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean i do it i guess  
i'm going to do it uh because i want to get in shape  
i'm not it's not something i really enjoy all that much that i'll i'll probably  
i mean once i get into it and i if i if i get into better shape then it'll be it won't be as much of a a chore to me  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i have  
uh sit ups  
or also last summer i was doing nautilus  
or last year i'm uh belong to a club right here  
got kind of expensive uh to to renew they wanted another fifty dollars  
that was a little bit too much money  
but uh doing a mix of nautilus and free weights i like that  
i'm sorry  
it's called oh what was it called city sports downtown washington  
yeah  
i'm at i'm at i go to george washington university  
yeah  
it's uh [plaza]  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
it's something  
i think uh i'm young  
i should get started getting into shape  
i don't want to  
i want  
i mean at one point it's going to be too late to do it  
yeah  
huh  
oh
so what's your favorite exercise
oh that's pretty good exercise
do you drive a cart
or do you carry your bag
yeah
it gets a long ways after a while
yeah
oh let's see
i i play racquetball
mostly
um i don't play very much anymore because i've fractured my right ankle twice
and uh fractured it on both sides
and so it's kind of weak i'm afraid to get out there and try it again uh
do do they give the employees time off during the day to go
a lot of places do that now they'll they'll set aside
you know like an hour a day that you can go exercise
that's a pretty good idea because people who take advantage of it end up in better health and saves them on health care
um yeah
i like bowling too
i haven't been for a while just don't have the time
but uh i guess bowling
and [racquetball's] about it for me
walking every once in a while but not a great deal of that
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well that's my uh i mean every time i've tried to go you know it's always there's always a league bowling
and it it's just so you either have to wait or
you're next to to league [bowlers] and after a while
it just gets to be a pain
yeah
yeah
especially here in raleigh
we've got such little bitty bowling alleys got little bitty everything here
yeah
um a friend of mine works at uh i b m in charlotte
and they've got a real nice building down there on a great big piece of land and it's a huge plant
i mean this thing's just enormous and that's what they do at lunch time they go out and run around the building
i'm not i was never into jogging i hated that
when i was in high school playing football the coach was always making us run
yeah
i just sort of hated it from that point on
well
yeah
it's that's a tough one to play
i i used to play it when i was younger
but took it out of me then
and i'd hate to think what it would do to me now
yeah
i got to stick to more sedate sports
as soon as i as soon as i can find me an ankle a good uh a good ankle brace i'm going to start playing some racquetball again
but i'm not going out there with an [unsupported] ankle anymore
i'm tired of running around on [crutches] for two months at a time
and i'm not lucky enough to just go ahead and break it
you know the things got to get fractured so that it never [heals] properly
well i've got a pair of those
uh that's those are the ones that i wear when i go out there
um trouble is i can't get them tight enough to to really give me what i feel is support
um so i'm i i i think probably just an [ace] [bandage] would work
but i want to get one of those um padded ankle
what you call its
yeah
it's going to cut off the circulation yeah
yeah
i i think i tried that one time a couple years ago
and it did the same did that same thing
you end up loosening it up
and then of course you don't have any
yeah
i think i'll probably just have to go with one of those [splint] braces or something
well i guess that's about it for exercise
us old guys just don't do it very much do we
well that's that's good exercise
and i don't do enough of that either
i sat down to a double dose of spaghetti tonight i
um i like grilled cheese too
well you know i i wonder though it's i think it really depends on the person
i was reading an article in the paper the other morning these doctors are [baffled] about this eighty seven year old man who eats thirty boiled eggs a day
did you see that
and they're wondering where does that cholesterol go
i think it is too
and i and i think things like eggs and cheese anything like that
i think it just depends on who you are
because uh i know people who eat tons of that kind of stuff
and they're just as healthy as can be
i mean i i'm sort of strange in a way
i'm i'm about twenty pounds overweight
and i smoke
but my blood pressure is about my last reading was just the other day
it was one hundred two over seventy nine
yeah
good
and low
and uh i mean you'd think by looking at me my i'd have a bad heart and everything
terrific heart great blood pressure
jeez
i'm not worried about it
yeah
exactly
and and and even then you've got to watch the bread and the water
yeah
you never know what's in the water either
well good talking to you you have yourself a good night
okay
are are you an exercise fanatic
oh really
well that's way north too i guess you have to swim inside huh
really
wow
uh_huh
oh well that's good
that's that's one of the best ones i understand no stress on the joints yeah
i guess so
but as far as the weight bearing
yeah
that's true
plus even if you lose weight and don't exercise it ends up just you know looking unhealthy
wow
do you swim like at a at a y
or
oh
huh
really
is it like olympic size
wow
are you are you a t i employee
what
yeah
well the reason i ask you
i i'm a t i employee
and uh we have a fitness center you know that's on site
that makes it real real convenient because i tend to find that once i get home
that's it you know
i tend to not want to go anywhere after that
but this way you know you can go to the fitness center right from work
and they have aerobics and you know all the nautilus machines and all that sort of stuff
we're not we're not high rollers like dallas
we don't have a pool
but oh that's good
oh that's great
yeah
morning is usually a better time to exercise
but i usually find that after work is when i have the time to do it
you have honey dos
yeah
honey dos
yeah
well that's i i like to to work out some in the morning
but it's not like you know i usually use the video or something like that to do
plus i like to dance you know
uh_huh
uh_huh
and and on saturdays i go to a jazzercise class
that's my
oh it's fun
jazzercise is really fun
yeah
there there's a lot of energy
i i i like to belly dance too
but there's not the same you know you don't get the aerobic workout as much
it's it's so much fun that you forget you're exercising you know
aerobics you don't forget
you know you're exercising oh
and we started the bench aerobics too
i don't know if you've seen that
that's that's a fairly new thing
it's just like uh one step
you know it's like a box and you just step up and down and up and down and up down do different [variations] you know change feet
and and you'd be surprised how quick that gets the [pulse] rate up
it's a it's a lot quicker and and that way
it's completely low impact there's no jumping or you know no jarring on the knee bones yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that will do it
yeah
we have one of those too
but it's boring
oh
but that wouldn't be boring like walking up stairs yeah
right
well do you count your [laps] or do you just have a time segment that you jeez
yeah
yeah
well that's neat
do you do you look forward to doing it
or do you
sometimes have to force yourself until you get started
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
and then when you don't for some reason you feel real lethargic it seems like like the the the less you exercise the [tireder] you are
for some yeah
yeah
that's true
sometimes i find i have to kick myself though to get started
and once i get started you know it's it feels good
wow
do you have time to do that in your job
uh_huh
of course you probably i have i have waist length hair
so you probably don't have that problem
you know that's a problem with with getting getting that much wet
but
oh
yeah
well gee
well that sounds neat
and you do that
like like almost every day
or what about weekends
oh
water skiing or snow skiing
oh
uh_huh
oh really
oh that's good exercise
oh really
how how old are your kids are they
oh that's a good age to start something like that
uh_huh
really
little competition there
really
did they have a separate uh like class or something for the kids or is it everybody together
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
did you all start this year or last year
uh_huh
do you all have have you had a good snow this year
i guess i'm calling to tell you about my exercise program
which is a little bit lacking right now i've slacked off in the last six months
but for several years
i have walked three miles a day
are you
uh and that my walking was a fast walk uh to get the heart rate up to an aerobic level
and i in fact i was enjoying it so much uh that i was doing it like seven days a week
and i i pretty much had to cut that back though to five
uh i
well it was about three
uh_huh
and i walked thirty minutes
i did the uh slow walk kind of a normal walk for five
and the aerobic walk for twenty
and cool down walk for the last five
but
and and it was i was it was so much fun to watch the progress because as i uh went along when i started uh at first i had to uh i didn't have to use my arms all that much to uh you know get the heart rate up
but then after about uh four weeks then i had to use them all the time
and then i had to i found that i had to raise them above my head and kind of down my back to to get the heart rate up
it was very it was progressive
yeah
i thought well now i guess probably six weeks before i had to do my arms the whole time
the whole twenty minutes
oh my gosh
yes
i have the cutest turned up tail you ever saw
no
no
i did notice uh a lot of difference
oh gosh
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i think may be you like doing it alone you like doing it on your own time too
i think so
to
well and i i was very pleased uh when uh during cold weather and i haven't lived in charlotte north carolina for a full year yet
but uh when i lived in a colder climate i had access to one of those [schwinn] bicycles
the ones that you you know you have to use your arms also
and so on those days i did thirty minutes on the bike
now that was a little boring
because i did it alone
and uh you know you can't read very very well if you're using your arms and you can't put a book on that type of arms but that was i was very lucky there
but here
i have dogs that i take uh on long walks and that makes it a lot better to have their company
but as i said i'm not doing quite as well now because we're in a temporary situation
and what i had uh also found that i guess it's like simple addition uh once it
well it's easier to quit if you start uh uh stopping shall i say
if you skip some days then uh it's awfully hard to get back to a regular routine
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
yes
yeah
well and i i had support from my husband too which is very nice
he felt that i needed to put that first
and uh i don't believe a lot of woman always have that kind of support
yes
yes
uh_huh
yes
yes
i've had those
and i think they're excellent
uh-oh
i'm sure
oh my gosh
yes
i i think it's wonderful
i've had it and on a regular basis
and uh i found it a lot more [fatiguing] than my uh walking program even
yes
yes
well it's been fun talking to you
and i we shall you lots of luck with your endeavors
okay
well basically my habits are totally gone
i used to exercise quite a bit
and now i have a child and and um trying to do go to school back to college again
so it's it's uh
exercise is kind of forget it
they sure do
yeah
my daughter
yeah
yeah
uh she's three
so three with a i think it's almost like she's got this endless energy
i mean it's no longer nap time that kind of thing
so
yes
yeah
so
yeah
exactly
so the exercise we can pretty much uh get from her uh she always wants to go outside and do things
so i'm kind of uh she's an only child too
so it's it's not like you can go out and say go out and play with
other kids
so it's
uh_huh
sure
sure
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
sure
sure
sure
yeah
yeah
that's about what uh basically if we can get out and take a walk it's it's great
but uh most of the time we can't so it's uh we're too busy doing other things but that also takes into account walking though
when you think about it
so it's
oh sure
sure
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
to [loosen] it up
yeah
yeah
that's true
so yeah
oh yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
so
oh boy
sure
trying to keep up with the nineteen months
uh sure they're into everything
the baby uh_huh
oh he was cranky sure
once you lose that sure that's very true
it wasn't too long ago where i was doing the same thing
and that uh totally gets your mental capabilities thrown off totally when they're uh tired
and uh you wake up in the middle of the night
and it's my daughter used to be pretty much on a regular basis for that
so daddy just came home
so the house is starting to [liven] up here now
but uh that's about it
that's kind of how my exercise is right now is just basically running after a three year old
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
it sure does
yeah
sure
sure
well it was really nice talking to you then
okay
uh_huh
thank you
okay um well i the thing i like to do the most is swim
and i was doing that real regularly
but i am expecting right now
and sick
and uh so i have kind of slowed down a little bit
but anyway that's the thing that i've found works the best for me is is just doing lap swimming
oh do you
oh did you play in high school
oh uh_huh
oh yeah
oh well i know my husband likes to do that he plays racquetball
too
yeah
uh_huh
he does some he's he's played it since i guess he was in college
and then um he plays uh two or three times a week
so he's a member of the sports mall in salt lake and he'll go on his noon hour
and he still likes to do that
so that i know that that's one thing that he likes to do
and i think that [relieves] stress too
yeah
oh well i think i do it for uh weight reasons i mean you know to
so you don't gain weight
but
and also i i know i feel a lot better when i do
but i like i said i have just been really sick
and and just can't i'm just almost too tired
i i was going
um in the mornings
what
well yeah
we we also have an eleven month old and a six year old and and so it's just kind of
um finding the time for me to exercise is another thing
but i really do like to do it
but anyway
oh gee
well like the kids kind of keep me exercising too
just chasing after them i guess
yeah
so you do you have much time to do that since you're in college now
and so it just kind of helps to work it in there
huh
yeah
i think that's probably true with anything when you work some exercise in it just seems like things seem to go more smoothly i don't know
that should be a part of i guess everybody's daily things
oh i know my husband wants me to take up golf
that's another thing he does
and you know i don't know that i see that as a real big exercise though
i don't know i've i've been a few times
but that's something i am really bad
i mean you know it takes me a million strokes to get it in
so
oh so you do golf huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
well do you ski
uh_huh
oh
have you
yeah
you felt some muscles that you oh i haven't been skiing for years
huh_uh
not downhill we do have cross country [skies] and and i i enjoy that
but i don't know downhill i was always real bad at that too
and it's just the thoughts of it kind of scare me
i was one of these out of control
skiers
but
well you what
oh well
so you have are you just starting out at school
oh are you
oh huh
oh you are
well that's exciting congratulations
yeah
well good
well yeah
it's nice to talk to you
and good luck in everything
okay
you too
yes
i do i uh go on long walks whenever i can
and uh well when i when i can fit it into my schedule
and the weather's right
i like to walk uh-oh three four miles a day
uh_huh
well that sort of same sort of thing happened to me i used to be a regular swimmer
i i taught at a university
and i you know could use the pool every day if i wanted
and since moving away from the university environment
i've uh now it's kind of difficult to find a pool that's convenient and affordable to swim in
but uh what university were you at
uh_huh
did you say you're at the university of iowa
iowa city huh
i i i visited there once quite a few years ago had a friend who was in the linguistics department there
uh_huh
well you
do you have contact with any of the uh people in linguistics yeah
uh_huh
well if you ever run into uh to cathy reagan say hi to her for me
i think she's still there
well how [briskly] do you walk do you think
how how fast
do you walk do you think
uh_huh
well a brisk walker can go maybe what four or five miles an hour
so if it takes you a third an hour to get in
you're probably going oh i would say at least a mile and a half probably
yeah
the winter
of course even here in uh in northern texas we do get a little cold weather
but most of the winter i can go walking just about anytime i want to
this winter though it's rained so much that uh there have been times where see my uh favorite uh area to walk is a a greenbelt they have right through plano here
and uh you know it's it surrounds a little stream over much of its extent you can walk for miles there and never cross a street
you you go under the streets you know
but uh when the uh when the water is too high uh you'd get washed away they have signs up there warning people to stay away
so
we've had that uh a number of times recently not to mention the mud of course
well you can get you can do the other thing i do is uh i have a little exercise bike that uh wasn't too expensive
i got a cheap one
but you can really work up a sweat on it
yeah
yeah
i i really prefer outdoor exercise i'm afraid that my favorite indoor exercise is eating apple pie a la mode
and that doesn't help very much
hi
i'm bill from raleigh
where's that at
west texas
okay
your the first person
i talked to
from texas
i've been getting phone calls from all over the country
yeah
washington state and oregon and i forgot where all else pennsylvania new york
i i i's i never call anybody
i just let them call me
yeah
sure
okay
what kind of exercise
do you do
or do you do any
well i am too
i'm a couch potato
i've never played racquetball
no
oh
i've tried weight training
i just i just can't get into it
no
it
and it
well i don't like having the sore muscles i like to jog
yeah
i i used to jog about six miles a day
and then i i tore the ligaments in my ankle so i i don't really run that much
but i i i jog some about a mile or so now when i have time
yeah
that's that's basically me
i'm i'm i exercise more in the summer and spring than i do um like this time of year because it's too cold here
yeah
well i i i think forty degrees is too cold
so
yeah
that's that's basically what i do i like i like to um to walk too i guess they said it's a good form of exercise
i guess uh if you consider that exercise i walk a lot
but i i have such a normal fast pace
i don't really think it's
right
i i mean i i've always walked fast
so i don't know i need to get on some kind of exercise program though because i'm i'm starting to gain weight i'm getting at that age where just start putting on the pounds
yeah
it it it has caught up with me in the past year or so i've put on about twelve pounds
so i need to work and get it off
i thought about doing a diet
but i really don't need to diet
i just need to
exercise i think
when i get off work
i usually come home and fix dinner and watch t v and then i'm tired
i take a nap whatever
oh well i work eight to five
so i mean that's right
i do accounting
and and it's on a computer all day
and i'm so brain dead when i get off work
it's kind of like just don't even talk to me just let me sit here and [vegetate] well i don't i don't know
they say once you get in a routine of exercising
it gives you a lot more energy
i know when i ran um i kind of got like addicted to it you know you see these people um
i never was die hard you know they they had a story on the news about people becoming addicted just like uh people that do drugs
it's it's a high for them
i've got a uh uh a real good friend that i went to school with lives here too
she works for the news and observer and she's the one who got me started running in in college
i was never die hard like she was it was
we had a sleet storm
and she was outside running in that
[icicles] hanging down and all this other kind of stuff
and i i told her she was crazy
but she runs about thirteen miles now
she's really training and i when we were in college
we both chain smoked like [freight] trains and she would get out and run every day
and it never would bother her or it's like it won't bother me
and her husband made her after she got married her husband made her stop
so so now she's just like
home leaving from work
uh i don't know if i mentioned to you
last time we talked but uh i just recently retired from the army active duty twenty years
and of course when you're active duty military you are required to not only to maintain a certain level of uh weight and physical fitness but you're required to take a what we call a p t test physical uh physical training test uh twice a year
so we were constantly expected to exercise and be in shape
and then we had specific standards
we had to meet based on our age group
and if you didn't pass the test then they put you on what they called remedial p t and every morning you have to go to the company and jog in [formation] which really did not prepare you for the next physical fitness test
but was more a form of punishment you mean what do i do now
well as the result of that i really got to enjoy uh long uh distance running
and so i i trained quite regularly
and i i [raced] quite often i tried to do like a ten [kilometer] foot race uh once a month or so
now that i am out i pretty much kept with it until i got a job in virginia
and i live in maryland
and so by the time
i i get up early and drive and hour to an hour and a half here which is about fifty miles work
all day fifty miles back on the capitol beltway
and of course it's dark by the time i get home and so i have to admit that i that i have fallen off uh slightly or maybe even considerable or maybe even completely
and uh so i am not doing much now which concerns me because i just had my forty ninth birthday
so i want to keep at it because i know that if you don't uh
there's there's lots of problems that you can have yeah
and so uh i want to get back at it as soon as spring breaks and uh but what we have done is uh [decreased] considerably the amount of fat that we consume in our diet
and uh how about yourself
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
so you have good [sustained] work out
oh yeah
yeah
that's that is a long time to have at it
but that's of course uh there's a lot of sudden fast changes in direction
and i don't know
does that cause you any injuries or anything
no
uh_huh
either an elbow in the eye
right
uh_huh
the nice thing i liked about foot racing was that uh for me it was pretty much non competitive uh i didn't have to worry so much about being a part of a team or anything
so i could just compete against myself
or the clock or the next guy ahead of me
and uh that fulfilled my [urge] to compete while at the same time keeping me fit
but i did uh i had the privilege of going to what the army calls our master fitness trainer course which was a month long course at fort ben harrison indiana
and i learned a lot from that about uh the difference between aerobic and [anaerobic] exercise
that sort of thing
so at least from that i realize the importance of it
and uh uh not so much that
but i have noticed a difference
because i am not exercising as much anymore in the uh in my heart rate
which slowly creeps up
as you get less and less fit and uh i haven't weighed myself in a good while
but uh i just had a recently had a physical
and they said that my uh [triglycerides] and the cholesterol and all that were in pretty good shape
and my wife was keeping real close track of it because she uh wanted to see what effect it would have on her
and it
she showed a significant improvement
through just simple things like you're going for low fat lunch meats for uh when we bring our lunches to work and uh uh matter of fact i've very seldom uh use sugar or salt either uh it takes a little getting use to
but uh uh skim milk is what we drink now
and that took a little getting use to
but uh we have
well at least she has noticed a significant change in her cholesterol and uh and [triglycerides] which is which is good
yeah
me too
i guess it's the east coast time you know everybody else is asleep
oh yeah
yeah
i've initiated a few at the office like that
and it takes a while during the day uh well it's
an interesting topic want to get going
okay
uh well i exercise fairly regularly
i work for a company out here uh in livingston new jersey [bellcore] bell communications research and uh we have in the corporate center where i work a health [enhancement] center h e c they call it
and it's about as convenient as can be
it's uh just two floors down from me
and uh so i exercise regularly during the daytime when i'm at the office
and they have oh a bank of maybe six jogging machines they have a a uh progressive weight machine that you know you dial up the weights on it
it's not nautilus but it's similar to that
and then they have bicycles
and free weights
but they also have people that [chart] your progress uh and encourage you to come if you slip off a couple of weeks they send you a nice friendly aggressive [reminder] that says hey we haven't seen you for a while
and they also provide [towels] and shower facilities and [lockers] and everything
i've been through the routine
i guess like most people where you know i joined health clubs i've been at the university where you know it was a pretty good distance away you know quarter of a mile walk
and uh nothing seemed to work for me as well as having it in my own building
doesn't work at at at home you know i've bought home exercise equipment and stuff
and uh no
i generally go down there
uh [midafternoon] uh the time
that seems to be best for me is around two o'clock two thirty
yeah
and that's you know there are people down there all the time you could almost hold meetings sometimes because people tend to set up a regular schedule and go down there
uh but the the [etiquette] of the place is that you don't really talk too much business when we're down there
uh yeah
yeah
it just you know works out that way
uh
and there have been a lot of studies
i have friends who uh who work in the recreation field for companies like this
and actually uh a break like that increases productivity and and with the [commensurate] uh increase in physical fitness by the people who attend these centers regularly
you have uh fewer [absentees] and things like that
so the corporation can justify it pretty well
and it's not like i'm taking time away from the company i probably put in extra hours because i'm now physically fit and [reenergized] i mean that my routine around two two thirty to go down there for an hour probably makes the last three hours of the day then more productive than i would if i you know just sort of went on through
so
yeah
yeah
and that's what the kind of the late afternoon is i you know have a very light lunch
because i know i'm going to be working out
and uh you know usually then my lunch is just a a quick tuna sandwich at my desk
so then i sort of skip that luncheon time
and uh you know catch up on reading and then work out so that that's kind of my routine
uh_huh
yes
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
we have the [nordic] machine
and i tried it a couple of times it just made me feel stupid and uncomfortable
and [uncoordinated] so i don't do that
it is used regularly by you know people
but uh i i didn't like it
this is going to be very boring
because i don't
no
and uh unfortunately it shows
i uh i'm supposed to
i'm way overweight
but uh i've had a problem with uh high blood pressure which of course is directly connected to it
and my doctor's trying to get my blood pressure under control before i start in any exercising
so anyway i did join the uh uh the texins up at uh uh [springcreek] and i've been up there a few times
but didn't accomplish too much because i just run down too quick
uh that would have to be mine
i hate exercising
it's so boring
uh i would much prefer to like walk through the woods
uh_huh
isn't it amazing
well we um back when my i have four sons they're all grown now
and and two of them are married with children of their own
but when they were just uh preteen [agers] we uh we decided the only way we could afford vacations is to go camping
and we thoroughly enjoyed it
i mean we went whole hog we had the tents and everything else
and and pretty much roughed it
sleeping on the ground and all
and uh i like to think that my children my sons learned a lot about uh the outdoors uh uh being self [sustaining] uh uh i would have no doubt
what
so ever that any one of them could be dropped in the middle of no where and they'd they'd exist somehow
uh_huh
oh wow
okay
that is understandable
oh yes
i'm very familiar with it very beautiful place
i've been up there several times
oh what a shame
uh_huh
well good
i'm glad to hear that about the only thing uh i might suggest is uh do the same thing again [introduce] her to a to a spider at a reasonable distance where she isn't frightened and uh and the the nightmare
i'm sure was just a a freak i'll bet it wouldn't happen again
well you couldn't pick a better way of doing it
with your family
and an you're certainly all getting an education while you're doing this exercise
as far as we're concerned
uh_huh
oh definitely
definitely
it was a learning experience uh now we i guess we camped just about every public campground in the state of florida
oh yes
yes
well they used to be
but now they're trying to really put it to the the the uh visitors i think they're doing a very stupid thing
well they charge extra now they there was a time here a few years ago when they put an extra tax on all the campgrounds and the uh motels and hotels
so they are are uh you know really putting it to the visitors and people got a little fed up with it
and suddenly the the [foundling] fathers of uh of florida found out that they were losing [beaucoup] bucks
people were going elsewhere for uh their vacations
exactly
so they got rid of that tax in a hurry
i can appreciate that
uh_huh
well the the trick is to stop frequently and let the kids get out and run
now uh i'm alone now myself
and and i i have graduated from sleeping on the ground to uh going in a motor home
well the fact i live in it
and there's just my dog and i
now my dog is a wonderful [traveler] but i do have to stop for her quite frequently
and it works out fine
i mean i stop i'm never in a hurry to get anywhere
like it takes me two days to get to memphis
no
it's uh it's about an eight or nine hour drive really
but uh i make it in two days because i i don't push it
oh definitely
oh absolutely
[incidentally] oh i can't remember the name of that place
there's a beautiful park up there
and they do have a uh uh-oh sort of a hotel a lodge a lodge
that's what it is
and it's just off the interstate
and the kids would love it
because they have [playgrounds] for the children and all
and they have uh several nature trails it's just below hot springs
oh
it's lake something
uh_huh
well the next time you go across the state line or when you come back in be sure and stop at one of the texas welcome bureaus and ask them for their literature on the uh state national parks in the state of texas
and you'll you'll get a collection from them
you wouldn't believe there were so many parks in the state
well it it there there are so many for have you ever been out to tyler state park
all right
there's a place to take them and uh-oh good heavens up there just this side of texoma not texoma uh
[texarkana] there are three or four state parks up there
and they're all great
and and again there's the nature trails for your exercising
we almost forgot our subject of the day there
but be sure and stop at one of those texas tourist bureaus and get their literature
well it's been my pleasure uh [gina] [gina] is that with a g that's uh uh italian heritage isn't it
yeah
i just started about uh two months ago
consistently doing it
uh
yeah
i uh i walk jog three times a week for about an hour
yeah
so i've just gotten up to uh being able to jog one and a half to two miles
and then uh about mile and a half of walking
so
oh
oh
okay
what kind of work do you do
oh okay
yeah
do you consider that your exercise
yeah
what kind of exercise program would you think you might want to get into
uh_huh
maintain
it
oh well what kind of things do you like to do like uh you like to run or play a sport or bicycle ride
uh_huh
yeah
well it's kind of hard on the joints yeah
there's a lot of other things to do
bicycle riding is pretty good for you
you don't have to put any uh shock you know it doesn't shock your joints or no pounding or anything
yeah
so you think you might get an exercise bicycle
oh
yeah
yeah
that's the problem with with that is like if you want to be consistent
and then the weather's bad
you can't really
or get out when it's cold or whatever
yeah
so i have an exercise bike at home
but i don't use it
it just kind of sits there in the corner
but
yeah
and the reason that i'm doing it is because i have a friend doing it with me
otherwise i wouldn't have the motivation
yeah
well it's you know i'm a student
and i'm in school all day
and i'm really tired
the end of the day and a lot of times i just want to go home you know and and eat
but knowing that my friend's waiting for me you know i meet her at the stadium where we work out uh it makes me go and then after i do it
i i'm glad i went and i enjoy
and i have more energy
after you do it
so
and we encourage each other
so
oh
that's great
yeah
it's hard you let other things get in the way
and and you're busy
yeah
if you have a family
and
yeah
it's kind of hard to
it's like you have to schedule a time and stick to it
but it's hard when you don't have somebody to do it with you
it's easy to just say well i'm not going to do it today
but i'll do it tomorrow
and then you never do it
uh_huh
oh
yeah
that would be tough
yeah
well
uh_huh
yeah
well maybe you can you can uh i don't know do a lot of walking like you are
and do [calisthenics] or something
i don't know
or get an exercise bike and in the house
oh yeah
yeah
i have a friend that has one
and she said it's really really good
it works a a lot of your muscles
and uh she just does it thirty thirty minutes three times a week
and that's not too much time
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
see if you just keep that up you know that's not too much time and then i bet it will really improve your you know your cardiovascular system
and
no
no
i get enough without having to do it if i exercised i'd be too thin
uh_huh
i just have one of those [metabolisms] that um
doesn't require it really
if i if
yeah
well i think you kind of are born with those type of [genes] uh_huh
well i did have a program of walking because i enjoyed doing it in the evening
and i had a dog at that time
and i walked him
and i kind of lost like ten pounds
and i said whoa better stop
uh_huh
uh_huh
well my daughter really
uh is into uh fitness uh course she's in uh the nursing profession
and she knows how beneficial
it is even though she says mom you you know you really need to exercise
because it does a lot for your body other than maintain your your weight
yes
and and she has a very strenuous um exercise mode that she keeps herself in plus she has um a family that she takes care of and a forty hour work week
so i'm really amazed at her stamina but she um has inherited a little problem from her father's side because he did have a weight problem
but he [maintains] his weight now because he [jogs] like uh nine miles a day
yeah
and he gets that [adrenalin] high
and i guess that really i've never reached it um
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i think the old [adage] is quite true in this case with exercise that [moderation] is the key if you know your limits
and you stay within those limits
i think that you and you're happy with the exercise that you do because i think it's um very [imperative] that you have a happy um attitude about exercise otherwise it becomes a chore
and a task
and and you you think of it as work and um it doesn't really uh do a lot for you
but if you think of it as a uh a source of uh well being and health and uh uh have a positive attitude
i think you you go a long way with that
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
yes
you're just uh focused then on maintaining your health because if
you do the exercise naturally you're going to feel a lot healthier
oh that's good
that's very good
uh_huh
well that's marvelous
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i think the way you're talking now that you're already motivated for that goal
oh sure
okay
i think it does a lot for your mental um exercise too uh keeping um a clear mind i think your mind is clearer when you exercise
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
you yeah
you
you've beat yourself over the head long enough
yeah
sure
yeah
and it has an effect on your family life too
uh_huh
and not show
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well one of uh eating is one of the [joys] of life you know
and uh
yeah
well it is for a lot of people
and uh you you surely should get satisfaction out of eating you know because you socialize and you're maintaining your your body uh you're you're maintaining all of your uh faculties that run the body your brain and your [flesh] and your bones and all of that and eating is a pleasure that is one of the basic uh [motivators] in life is eating
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
and they've got these
marvelous health clubs too that you know you can use their facilities
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh certainly
well that's fine
i think we covered quite a bit
well it was nice talking with you
take care
yes
i do
but not as much as i used to
well i go you know the y is right across from the church
so i go to the y m c a
and i do nautilus i i lift weights
and i do it basically really
i do it three three times a week
well i did up until like when my allergies got until like august
and my allergies got so bad
because i walked and uh i needed like you know they have [stairmaster] at the y
but i just can't seem to get myself on the [stairmaster] and i don't like exercising at all
i mean now you know now you are
huh
i hate it
and you know thank goodness the y is right there
i mean if it took any of more effort at all
i would never do it
yeah
i was going to ask you what you do
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh i like to walk too
and i like to walk outside
i don't like to walk inside
to the yeah
the parks and rec place
it's nice
but still it's inside
uh_huh
uh_huh
we have to talk three minutes
i think
but anyway
that's about all i would have to say about exercising anyway
i do it
but i don't like it
and i've decided that exercise has nothing whatsoever to do with my weight
it's what i eat
because yeah
i don't know that that's true for me because i lost all that weight that i lost
without ever exercising
i had not started exercising
and i lost thirty pounds
but when i started exercising then i started eating more
because i thought oh well you know now that i'm exercising
and it just doesn't work
you know i feel better from exercising
but it doesn't
really control my weight
yeah
it does
well they you know like forty minutes basically
like months
yeah
yeah
that's true
uh_huh
yeah
and i did too
like when i was walking you know the most
and i have had a real good program going
i had much more energy
and i literally would go walk and be a be just a little tired at first
but then i would have a lot of energy even right after i walked
right
because i'm sure you are exhausted too
i know
yeah
well and it clears your mind
and you know i'm sure you are real stressed out
and tired
and oh yeah
if you do both
if you are at both of them
uh_huh
uh_huh
well if you are there you know
so do you do any
yeah
yeah
well it's it's hard to get uh it's hard to maintain a a real level of uh i don't know what you'd call it
i guess motivation
at least for me it is
i mean
yeah
i actually i lift weights pretty regular now
and i have done it for the last oh i don't know ten twelve years
so it works pretty well for me
but still it's like you say the motivation is not always there especially in the cold weather
and i'm not real used to the cold up here
anyway just because i'm from florida really
so
yeah
a bit a bit
so uh but i don't know it's it's good to get a you get that good feeling you know when you get done
and and you're glad you did it
i guess
but uh
right
sure
uh_huh
that makes it rough because then
sure
yeah
that
right
and that just screws up your whole schedule
yeah
oh wow
you're sounding a lot clearer now
oh yeah
that's pretty weird
uh but yeah
i i don't know
i i do a lot of stuff
or i at least i have in the past done a lot of weird a lot of different activities uh and moving down here is in a way kind of or moving up here is pretty bad because i can't do as much as i used to
because the weather just doesn't permit it
you know
so
exactly
and and it is you know i mean
exactly
it's just a hassle
at times
sure
everybody gets off of work
right
uh_huh
sure
oh yeah
kind of like a [soloflex] or something
uh_huh
oh that's good
yeah
right
uh-oh
learn to take it easy
right
uh_huh
sure
right
uh_huh
right
yeah
it it would be too much of a hassle
yeah
oh you do
uh_huh
alright [ms] kathy
so uh what do you do do you do it regularly
and so forth
uh_huh
well uh i have been so busy working
i just retired about two weeks ago
thank you
my exercise basically has been uh walking that i could get in
which really hasn't been quite enough
but i could very definitely tell the difference when i have two or three hours off and i run around on campus i am retired from penn state university
and when i have an afternoon to walk around on campus
i i uh very definitely see a difference
and it
i know that walking is good for you
and uh i keep reading that it is much better for you than running
because of the actions of the joint and so forth
but uh tell me about uh your exercise did you take your exercise because you had a problem
or you just wanted to stay young and light or whatever
uh_huh
how many how many hours a week
do you estimate you perform these things
an hour a day uh_huh
uh_huh
do you ever have a time when you don't get this exercise in and notice that your weight goes up or anything like that
oh it's so you can tell the difference
uh_huh
i i understand what you are saying well what about eating do you uh do anything about the the type of food you eat is that uh
or do you just eat a normal balanced meal to go with that
uh_huh
yeah
that that does keep you busy
so you
well uh well there are just two of us
now my three children have all moved out
so uh diet wise
i am trying to keep us on a low uh weight a low fat type of uh diet
my wife has high cholesterol
so i am trying to keep that down and i do notice that when you go through periods such as christmas
and so forth where you eat out more often than normal if you don't get the exercise in your weight weight goes up
and uh for me exercise is one of the nicest ways of bringing that weight down and no
it's up until now
it has been mostly by myself because i would have been downtown
and as i say walking around on campus picking up mail and doing things like that and running downtown uh during my lunch period
well it gives me an opportunity to get some walking in
yeah
we have a bicycle in the house uh the kind that you pump you know that you can change the [loading] and she rides that and that seems to be uh probably other than walking that is probably one of the better things you can do
have you ever tried one of those
uh_huh
uh_huh
i was thinking with uh didn't you say you have four children
with four children
and sometimes there may be times you can't get out to go play you need to stay home maybe one of these mechanical bicycles
that would be
very helpful to you
well very good
well i wish i could get my weight down i need to get out and get some exercise uh
uh as i say i have just retired
so i am just starting to have a few days to uh approach that subject
and i am considering it
i am going to get on that bicycle that we have
and uh start doing some riding and i am sure that is going to be the [quickest] way to get things under control
no
i have one that lives in amsterdam holland
and uh one lives in uh near [warrington] pennsylvania
and the other one is in new jersey
so
well i i have done research
at penn state
i have uh not teaching i have done research in under water acoustics
well i didn't
yeah
yeah
i end up being uh we're fixing to go on vacation
so i'm running here and there and everywhere
and
yeah
it the recorder came on
i went oh boy
how do i miss today because i thought if i'd be there right now
i couldn't have taken this call
so my guilt feelings come [rushing] through
but uh usually yeah
i try to
um go to
i have a membership at fitness and figure world here
uh_huh
yeah
well it's it's it's kind of like oh your split level house
its got the male stuff on one side uh and then it has a nautilus equipment that male or female can use
and then it's got your aerobics room which is coed
and then it's got the female side which has all their nautilus that they can use by theirselves
and their own [sauna] uh no not
most of them most it's mostly female
oh yeah
the steps
i'm still not sure about it yet
um i
yeah
i'm too busy concentrating if i'm going to twist my ankles or something
yeah
yeah
because i have broken both my ankles
so i'm real leery about you know
stepping and looking
and
well i didn't i don't know how it could be
um
i'm i'm thinking it may be just a fad
and will pass with everything else
oh yeah
yeah uh
and you know the boxes get pretty tall
and i um i don't know
i haven't got to the [tallest] one yet
and it hasn't the i did uh when i first started it bothered my knees behind my knees that's the only place i was sore
and i thought well i must not be doing them right or or something because that i have no need for that muscle back there
so
so i'm you know i can see where it because it effected my knees and i did regular aerobics like last night with without the boxes
and i got more of a workout
and it was a no bounce class
and i still got more of a workout as far as in you know stamina et cetera
yeah
now i've been to that i haven't been to that yet
it just doesn't move fast enough for me
i don't think
i've got to have something hyper really
i've never tried it
so i guess i've i ought to try it before
i think it's not fast enough
yeah
yeah
i've never
i guess i ought to try i don't know
it just never appealed to me
as much as as as uh just for real hard aerobics does for some reason
and and then the weights and i'm really um like in the the step machines
uh i'm not sure what it is
no
oh
when they first started me i had a girl who was training me
and she'd only been there three weeks
and these guys on each side of me are just pumping it like you know
and i'm going there's got to be something wrong here
and the guy looks over and says he's got you started on ten
so let's turn it down
and then i was keeping up with him you know
but it was funny because i thought i am like in slow motion compared to everybody around me
and i felt like way out of shape
and it just happened to be the dial was wrong
but yes
yeah
yeah
i am more i used to do
i used to run in the mornings
and in i'm just much more stretched out by the evening
from work and everything
because i was really having uh [backaches] and stuff
when i'd get halfway through the day
i couldn't figure out why
oh yeah
yeah
it could be
of course i don't know it could be great for business
oh my gosh
so
well i'm looking forward to it
uh we're going to san diego
yeah
i have family that lives out there
so
well thanks
yeah
oh we have a lake party this weekend
so i'm really kind of going ugh
but
yeah
i've
i've
yeah
if it's good
we've we've been out a couple times and gotten into the swing of it
so we're we're ready
we go to we stay here ski here lake [beltin] yeah
yeah
okay
thanks
bye
all right
i guess this is a great time to talk about fitness with everybody
and their new year's [resolutions] and and going out and getting their record regular exercise program
uh do you exercise regularly
tell me about that if you would
uh_huh
yes
wow
well that's great
that's fantastic
do you have that set up where you can uh listen to some music or read a book or you just uh
oh good
so you're good
you're using yeah
you don't see a whole lot on a stationary bike
yeah
oh
okay
uh_huh
yes
yes
well you've got me at a disadvantage
i do not have a regular regiment i do exercise periodically but it's whenever i have the time
i uh i have a problem in that i don't make the time
and i i understand the importance of it
and in fact when i was in high school and college i was on all sorts of athletic teams and and regular programs
but since i've gotten into a new job and into my uh career and into a young family
time seems to escape me right now
but uh one thing that i really enjoy is that uh i have bicycles
and i have
two older boys that
they like to ride bicycles
with me
and we ride as a family
and you know uh i actually live in plano
but i'm working here in dallas
and they have some excellent bike paths
where you can go and ride for miles and miles and days and days and not see the same scenery twice
which is really fun
and uh one thing that i've been doing also is that mind you
it's not regularly
but uh
i like to go out and go jogging
and i do that
and the boys get on their bikes and uh we we they ride along and i jog along and it's a nice time to spend some some time with the boys too
so i'm trying to coordinate you know my family time in conjunction with my exercise time
exercise program and uh we really seem to enjoy that
and uh there's a couple of reasons for that it's my boys are very sports minded even at their young age
and uh one of them's in soccer and the other one just loves to
and so we get out and and do this
and i i found that it's very helpful to them also in my oldest boy's soccer league that he doesn't seem to run out of breath as much as the other boys do
and he can stay in longer
and uh and uh so i i don't have a a regular one
but i really would like to set my priorities straight and set and set aside time to do that
i thought of different things
i thought about going at the same time
every day in the morning
but i'm generally uh getting up and heading off to work around six or six thirty
which means i'd have to get up way early in the morning the [wee] hours of the morning to do that
and uh i've also tried to set aside time in the afternoon or evening
but uh things generally pop up that [preclude] me from from doing that
so i just need to get into a habit
uh_huh
uh yes
i do
uh_huh
oh okay
uh_huh
well great
uh_huh
oh okay
um well on a daily basis uh at lunch time i take a brisk walk for twenty minutes along with a friend at work
i am uh paying for a lifetime membership with president's health spa
well i don't i don't get there very often
but uh
i figure one of these days i will
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i have an exercise bike uh also
that's that's in my my house
and it just sits there
not doing me very much good
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i i'm from new york
and i'm a lot more inspired here in dallas than i was there because there is a lot more uh open space
and you just see a lot more people doing it you know outside all of the time
and
huh
uh_huh
speaking of bicycling i saw a uh a video in uh [blockbusters] and it was something for you to sit on your bike and look at while you're you're uh you're doing your workout have you
yeah
it's like you're going through hills or something
and
yeah
have you have you watched one of those
yeah
oh wow
yeah
yeah
uh i keep saying i'm going to uh rent one
and maybe i i'll get to to get on my bike
and use it
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well they have those [steppers] in president's although i haven't i haven't used one of them
but i do see people on them
and they they're supposed to be really really really a great uh workout
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i've been on the [rowing] machine at uh president's and uh i i like that
well well one thing i find that you know once the first time i joined and went in there
they they measured me
and and weighed me and all this stuff and wrote my name down on a little card
and they take you around they show you all the equipment and then you never hear from them again you know
you you're really basically on your own
you know they tell you how many of these to do
and many of those to do
and then you you know they never like call you back and say well it's time for us to see how
uh_huh
right
right
well isn't that the
well i just started going back to aerobics
it's three times a week
and it just the minute you get off work
you got to run over there change clothes
do that come home take a bath you know get cleaned up
and there's always people at our house
and things going on
and it it's hard
it's hard to fit it in
and i'm not one of these that loves aerobics anyway
we're going snow skiing in march
so i'm wanting to get in shape before we went
so that i wouldn't just fall over dead
up there
but i thought as soon as this is over
i am quitting i just
no
and i you feel good after you you know you work out
but it's always a mental chore for me to get [psyched] up to go
but once i get there
i'm all right
oh i know i saw that i want that
oh you're kidding
it is
yeah
and the
but the fact that all the movements that they do are exactly what you need to
but the fact that it's songs that you like
and movements that are not so hard
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's the only video
i have even considered buying
i think so
i think they're around twenty dollars apiece aren't they
yeah
uh_huh
i know
i have a friend that lives in dallas
and she every day goes to some gym and they work out on all kinds of machines and the whole bit
and i just thought you must be kidding
and then they got to a while
they'd go before work maybe work out for an hour
i thought
you all are eaten up with it just
yeah
just eaten up with it
but they're young
and they're single and that kind of stuff
uh_huh
and i said well that's what's the matter with you get
married and you won't care
really
i don't have any children
i
all my friends do
i've got one that the minute she had the baby
she lost every bit of the weight and was right back skinny little thing again
and i thought you make me sick
but she's young
she's about twenty twenty two
and i thought well that's what it is you're just you're just a child
uh_huh
some people i don't know i've got another friend that i'm twenty nine
and she's twenty nine after she had her son she said i was just too busy to eat
she had a two year old and then she had had another one
and she says i just don't have time to eat
she says i one i'm fiddling with one and then i'm fiddling with the other one
and she said i just at nighttime i think boy i don't think i've had anything to eat today
and that's how she lost hers
yeah
well really
uh_huh
uh_huh
well yeah
uh_huh
that was always fun
oh
yeah
we're just getting
okay  
so um  
yes  
we do keep uh well we started out keeping a budget about two years ago  
we have a computer here at the house  
and i made a lotus spreadsheet and went through the year using all of our our checkbook to figure out what we spent each time and whether we were over or under for each month  
and then basically since then what i've done is is keep track of it through the checkbook  
so that based on whatever we've got coming in the check coming in then how much i'm spending each half of the month and then trying to also  
because our house payment is once a month  
that's our our biggest uh expense  
so i take half of that amount out of my checkbook each with each paycheck   even thought it's really still there   so that i can keep uh uh good balance   a running total yeah through the month  
what do you all do  
is it is it hard to keep track of it  
or does it work out pretty well  
and and you're staying within your budget and   everything is working pretty good  
you don't have to go out and borrow it somewhere and do that  
that's a good choice  
we've been trying we're trying to uh do that this year  
we've budgeted the money that we used to spend we were spending on a coda account with t i and then money we were also buying stock with for that year  
we've taken that this year   and said we're going to pay off all of our credit cards  
and uh   we have uh another loan with the bank  
and so we hope by the end of this year   that by doing that we'll be free   and clear  
that's good to be in that kind of shape  
what are you all trying to do long term  
uh_huh  
yeah  
mostly what we're doing we've worked we've done the uh coda account with t i where they we put in so much a month  
and then they or so much a pay check and then they match it  
so that's that's worked out pretty good  
and then i used to work for t i  
and i have  
when i retired from there or left i took the money i that i had in mine and put it in an i r a  
and we had an out we had an existing i r a  
so we have both of us have some money in an i r a that we're also trying to figure  
to put it we're putting it in c d's right now  
and then we're also looking at it in possibly getting a mutual fund  
yeah  
the other thing that we've done that that was really nice to see we had one of the financial companies um  
uh john [hancock] company came out  
and their agent did a long term analysis based on salary and uh what we were what what our uh goals were on a long term budget in terms of retirement kids college paying off the house buying a different house   um special thing buying land and building our own house  
and they did an analysis for us based on what we were putting in and the time frame that we wanted to look at   and then gave us a good idea back you know some good information back on whether or not we were going to achieve those goals   and or not and what we needed to do so that we could achieve them and the money we could put in at what time  
yeah  
that that's the other financial thing i guess that we've done is with our life insurance is since i'm at home now is is figuring out uh what we would need if something happened to my husband or what he would need if something happened to me  
that's a a big thing to think about  
okay  
i guess that's most of my um financial plans right now  
is is there anything you'd like to add  
well it's been nice talking to you  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
a running total  
yeah  
uh we've we've uh taken how much we have you know write down how much we have coming in each month  
and then uh we've  
at the beginning of the year we sat down and determined how much we could spend  
we sat made up different accounts like you know  
we've set a budget for each you know household expenses or food and clothing and entertainment and then our our own fun money and just stuff like that  
and then we write down each each time we spend something we write down in a book  
and at the end of the month we [tally] it up to see how close we you know  
we we try to stay within a certain budget  
so  
um it takes some it takes some dedication to do it  
but it it works out real well  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i stay i have to stay within it  
so i you know  
and then we have that you know  
if you can't stay if something comes up and you can't stay within it then we have uh you know a budget for you know like we call our slush fund or something  
and an unexpected comes up then you're not you know you don't feel it so [strapped]  
right  
yeah  
because we don't you know we don't charge anything that we can't pay off by the end of the month  
you've got paper under your table  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to be out of that  
free  
yeah  
the only thing we have it to pay off is our is a automobile loan and our house payment  
and that's the only thing we ever  
we try to stay out of debt  
huh oh it's long term  
we just  
he you know his retirement plan and then to coda and stuff like that that's all we  
and you know we just have our life insurance for right now  
so we don't have any long term you know in stocks or anything like that right now  
so  
yeah  
that's what we're doing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
when ever we get enough saved we stick it in a c d for a while  
and then uh you know and then when if we need it we wait until it it's expired  
and then so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
or not  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that sounds interesting  
we've never done  
we have  
you know just our our life insurance guy has come out you know  
and he's set up uh you know determined how much we need to you know we need if something were to happen  
right  
yeah you know  
if i would sell the you know  
if he something would happen to him i wouldn't stay in texas  
i would uh sell the house and move back home you know to my home town  
and and uh i wouldn't stay here in texas  
so you know i don't know what he would do  
yeah  
mine too  
no  
that's about all for mine  
nice talking to you too  
bye bye  
well the thing is is that i um  
since i'm in school i don't like basically have a monthly budget because i'm living off my dad  
but the thing is is that um i have to keep it under control because for example you know it's like the the beginning of the semester when you go to pay for everything everything is pretty rough  
but he controls that part  
but then whenever you know  
it's like once the semester starts i'm the one who has to control how much spending there is  
and the only thing that i i basically spend my money on is just food  
and um so  
well the thing is is that i live in a dorm  
so uh what happens is you pay six hundred dollars at the beginning or even before school starts  
and then the tuition is also the same thing  
so the thing is is basically that i spend like maybe thirty five forty dollars every two weeks on on groceries  
and that's about it  
but the thing uh also is that you know like if you want to go out like if you want to go to a restaurant or something then i have to moderate that because it's like i can't go eat out at a nice restaurant and spend twenty dollars um you know three times a week  
so i mean it's  
for for us you know it's like i i can spend i can spend that money  
but it's not it's not what i want to spend it on you know  
no  
because um they don't allow me to work since uh i'm a foreign student  
and so they the government doesn't allow me to work  
uh_huh  
well the thing is is that um i i basically know how much i have right  
and so the thing is is that i i can tell like uh  
i i get all my money out of the teller  
and besides see one of my biggest expenses is telephone calls since i have to call you know international  
argentina  
yeah  
and so the  
one of the problems is that i spend too much money on phone bills  
well that's  
they they want me to call down there every so often  
i mean i told my dad dad listen if you want to save money i won't call so often you know  
he goes we want to keep in touch  
so i doesn't matter about the money because we need to hear from you  
no  
because it is more expensive that way  
any any um  
basically the united states is the cheapest country to call out of  
and um because it's considered a luxury in other countries  
right  
since it's his money anyway you know  
no  
um i got money to pay that too  
so it's basically you know  
it's like it's not too much money  
and it's not too little money  
so   i won't have to you know rush a letter to him or something  
because um he really wants me to concentrate on my studies  
i'm doing masters in computer science and computer engineering  
with those degrees  
well i can i can work up um here up to a year  
and hopefully get a job after that  
um computer communications and data transmissions  
right  
yeah  
you know anywhere from um local area networks metropolitan area networks you know all that  
and so well you have a family right  
and does does your wife work  
oh okay  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
and so and you have a monthly budget  
right  
so you don't have any problem in um [overcharging] on your credit card and stuff like that  
yeah  
yeah  
well then uh see uh that's that's one of the points which i don't see  
like i i don't give a lot of gifts during christmas  
and i you know i don't i don't like to give any at all  
because the thing is is that you know it's like if i want something i'll i'll ask somebody you know  
like like uh for uh for christmas my roommate goes what do you want  
and i said i want a backpack  
you no  
i told him if you want to give me a present for christmas give me a backpack  
right  
because i i needed a backpack  
so he gave me a backpack  
and i i knew he needed an alarm clock  
so i bought him an alarm clock  
so   the thing was that that  
right  
but  
right  
but um the thing is especially remember when i was down in argentina it was to me it was ridiculous  
because you know you have to  
once a year you go out  
and you spend all this money on all these people  
and some you don't care about you know  
it's like  
yeah  
and so but the thing is is that um  
yeah  
yeah  
well for example we had spring break now  
and i went skiing  
and i spent around like maybe two hundred dollars  
so uh but you know its like um  
yeah  
yeah  
because it's like you know say you know it's like we were saying let's go eat out before spring break  
i go let's not go eat out   before spring break  
let's see how much money we have afterwards  
and if i felt like i spent way to much then um i won't go out you know  
and so like my roommate went home  
i went skiing in over the carolina mountains which aren't anything  
but um but it was you know it was i guess it was worth it  
you know it was a nice place  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
especially if you live on campus and you don't have a car you just go crazy  
so oh well let's see how long have we been talking here  
six minutes and a half  
okay  
yeah  
all right  
well nice talking to you  
all right  
bye bye  
what about tuition and rent  
who takes care of that  
uh  
yeah  
no  
you can't do that very often  
are are you working anywhere while you are going to school  
okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
so all the money comes from home  
so you got to make uh  
so how do you keep track of where you are in in your monthly spending  
right  
yeah  
where do you call to  
argentina  
wow  
yeah  
talk too long  
yeah  
yeah  
so you call him collect  
what makes you   think so  
yeah  
oh okay  
so you just call him direct  
and then  
yeah  
and he gets the and you get the bill and send it to him  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
what are you what are you studying  
and what do you think you'll do with that  
uh_huh  
and  
you want to get into some kind of manufacturing  
or what's the specialty that your looking for  
oh okay  
so you want to find a uh data transmissions  
you're looking for uh um long distance   type stuff  
yeah  
i have a wife and two children  
and um  
no  
she doesn't work  
she does uh  
well it's kind of hard to say now days um other than taking care of the house she does a lot of sewing herself  
and she gets paid for that  
so she brings some money in  
she is trying to start her own business where she does that full time   [alterations] and sewing   stuff for the public  
and uh do that on a on a full time basis here in town  
well sort of  
we're probably like most american families i guess that we sort of have a budget in that we know how much we've got at the end of the month  
and we know what bills have to be paid  
and uh we pay as many of those bills that can be paid with with the monthly budget  
so  
oh sure  
we're like everybody else you know  
we've got a several credit cards that sometimes um instead of paying them all off every month maybe you have to slip some and you pay part of it this month and part of it next month especially around christmas time  
you know that's when everybody goes crazy on charging stuff  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's something that you can use  
yeah  
that's great   [utilitarian]  
necessary things no frivolous gifts  
that's true  
why bother  
yeah  
well especially being a college student your  
i don't know that you need to be involved in a lot of frivolous gift giving you know  
that effects the budget especially around uh christmas time  
at the end of the semester you've got finals and lots of bills i would suspect  
what about when you have breaks like um christmas or between sessions  
i expect so  
you've got to budget that though  
you've got to save up in able to do that right  
i mean  
right  
right  
huh  
sure it is  
any time you can get away and and   get away from from the daily grind  
yeah  
i know the feeling  
is that okay  
all right  
nice talking to you  
have a good time  
bye  
okay  
so do you all keep a budget  
you don't  
are you being smart  
or are you serious  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's funny  
yeah  
we have a  
we're twenty eight and he's been working at t i for five years  
and that was pretty much his first real really major job of any you know professional because he had worked you know part time during school and what not  
and uh he was a little late graduating  
so we're you know uh  
and we have a nine and a half year old son  
and it's because you know we were eighteen when we had him  
so we're we're kind of looking at this from the other aspect of   we you know we have a lot for to be our age and you know just everything and having the responsibilities we've had on us for at such a young age  
you know we have a like a nice house  
people you know are really shocked at how nice everything is in our house  
but we don't you know live in a brand new house either maybe a ninety hundred thousand dollar house  
but we're in a thirty year old house that would probably sell for forty five thousand  
so you know we have trade offs  
so we're more we have a monthly budget with this this this this  
but we have no savings which isn't real wise  
but we just we don't have the income at this time really to have any because we have three debts that we're trying to pay off from both of our student loans  
we're still paying   trying to pay those off  
and we have one car payment that we don't i think we have about thirteen months left on it  
and after that we either  
what we want to do is begin doubling up our car payment um  
they'll pay  
our car payment is equivalent to both of our student loans  
so what we want to do is next year keep driving the same cars and um pay on the student loans split that car payment in half and pay you know double up payments on both our loans  
and it'll work out perfect  
no  
we don't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh   uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
does she have to pay to have it [refinanced]  
uh_huh  
t i to  
see  
we got ripped off buying our new car  
we both come out of uh drugs and stuff  
and we became christians about five years ago  
right when he got home from [terrell] right before he got hired for t i he had gotten saved and stuff  
and so i mean when you get come out of drugs and stuff you have nothing  
i mean you know you don't have anything  
you have the clothes on your back  
and you might have a car and that kind of thing  
and so when he when he started working at t i we uh you know we really felt like god told us to buy a new car because he had an older car that was going to need to be fixed and high gas  
but we got ripped off on it because we wanted it financed at four years  
and we were young  
and we'd look about nineteen  
people still think we're about  
they ask us where we go to high school when we get our hair cut and stuff both of us  
and so it's just kind of strange you know  
so five years ago we probably looked like real [ding] [dongs] you know  
so we went in and the financed the car for five  
and we didn't know that  
we got kind of taken just a little bit  
so we're kind of upset that we're having to you know pay this fifth year on the car because it was just not a wise thing  
but we learned a good lesson  
so you know  
yeah  
but they they would have only been about twenty dollars a month higher  
and he  
yeah  
he just told me this last week that he he said don't you remember i asked them to finance it at four years  
and they came back  
and they said that they had it figured for five  
and we'd already signed the papers  
and i maybe i might have been there  
i don't remember hearing that  
but i also wasn't the one in charge of it  
so i wasn't paying as close of attention  
but anyway instead of putting our foot down about it we just went okay whatever you know  
so anyway  
so next time we'll do that different  
we want to next time pay cash for our car too  
we want to pay cash for everything we can possibly do  
when we buy a house we attended a bill financial seminar  
and he has a lot of wisdom on that just on biblical you know principles to   finance  
he runs a big the largest real estate company in fort worth debt free  
and we really believe in debt free living and debt free car buying and debt free house buying  
and if we do take out a loan on a house in the future what we'll do is pay twice a twice a month on it and because you save a lot in interest just doing that  
and then  
right  
right  
right  
right  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
we we've become aware of that  
we have a there's a loan officer through our church too that i think could help us better  
you know he does that full time with the bank you know  
and so we're going to use people that we're in a relationship with that we know that you know we know are people of integrity  
so  
you know that is another thing that you know  
we feel like our long term goal is going to be benefitted by next time  
we buy a car we're not just going to go to toyota of irving you know  
we're going to go to somebody that we know  
we're going to take someone with us older  
and we didn't do any of those things  
yeah  
really  
oh my  
i stopped payment on a check  
oh that's funny  
oh this last week we bought a sewing machine at [zak's]  
and then i found that you could get the same machine better for less locally  
not much less but it was enough less  
and i found they locally [serviced] it  
and we just stopped payment on the check  
so i hope they don't sue us over it  
but we never received any merchandise either  
so i don't think it would hold   anyway  
no  
we didn't even call them  
we just did it  
maybe my husband should call today  
no  
we don't  
no  
i i make so much money here at t i that that we just spend it  
and we never have a problem meeting it from paycheck to paycheck  
it's pretty neat being that independently wealthy and working for a major semi conductor firm  
you can just spend it well  
i'm being facetious  
i'm being very comical  
uh we have a budget um   that works well  
i kind of look at it for more of a  
we have a financial uh analyst a finance administrator i guess that that uh  
i guess the financial [planners] the training now  
we've had it for about four years here  
got our businesses and and and our life in line how to manage credit cards how to put away say for you know money markets and this kind of thing  
and there's some [freebies] out there are  
you should put ten to fifteen percent of your monthly bring home   in some sort of savings account  
that being money market uh bonds savings uh or just a liquid account   which which we do  
um you should always have three months of your salary in a savings account in case there's a major need for that  
okay  
you should always have an umbrella permit that bridges your life insurance and your medical and your uh uh car insurance in case you run into a lawyer and you break his arm  
he's going to sue the pants off of you  
these kind of things are about a hundred dollars a year  
so   you know these are all equivalent to the monthly budget things  
some of them are there to [pacify] situations  
and some of them are there to prevent things from happening  
but uh i guess we kind of got away from about the last sixteen months as far as saying two hundred dollars for food and three hundred dollars for this and two hundred for that because we had a child which is about a year old  
and then   uh we've just been kind of working on  
i've been developing it  
but it's kind of hard  
diaper prices are going up you know and formula and stuff you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you have your uh loans through the texas credit union  
okay  
thing about the credit union is it's the way it's set up is if you have two thousand dollars left let's say on on the loan  
if you go up there and write them a two thousand dollar check it doesn't all go towards principal  
they take out for the for the finances   the finance charge which is kind of you know  
it's like one of these lose or swim type of credit  
one of those loans is not really the best in the world  
but   but you know they're uh  
since your husband is is is um a t i  
but doesn't have the loans with the credit union they're offering something that might be worth   taking a [gander] at  
i don't know what your percent is on your on your car payments  
but they are they'll take any t i non credit union loan   like if you have a fourteen percent loan for a new car  
they'll take it and [refinance] it and put it with texas credit union at i think it's a ten and a quarter percent   which is not a bad deal  
one of the secretaries we have down here is paying twelve percent through g m a c or something  
and she's doing it  
i mean it's not like it's like  
i think they even cover that because they want you   as a   they want the t i to be part of the credit union  
yeah  
well five years is not that uh five years is not that bad of a problem only because you're paying more interest  
but your payments are lower  
oh really  
sure  
uh_huh  
yes  
you save a lot  
if if if if  
and you need to be very careful  
if the loan is set up to have [bi] they call it a yuppie loan if it's set up for [bimonthly]   payments  
if you  
because you'll save fifteen to seventeen years off the end of the loan  
i'm sorry seven to nine years off the end of the loan  
and there are there is a local firm that'll actually  
if if  
like in my situation i don't have that because the loan was not available  
i can have  
this firm will pick up my loan for a six hundred fifty dollar fee  
so i can cut that much off the end of  
but i'm not interested because we're moving out of the house next year  
yeah  
but uh those are all great  
the the interesting thing we're getting ready to have a house built  
it's not a lot of the firms that offer  
mortgage loan firms aren't offering um that loan  
you can ask and you can wheel and deal  
but it's not as   open as it should be  
it's a great idea  
hell i'd love to cut ours in half  
but uh  
man  
and if you figure get with a financial person  
and you can figure up exactly when like the eighteenth month of a loan if you make like a four hundred dollar payment over and above your house payment   it'll make uh  
it has a magic with numbers  
it i it'll shave almost you know x number of dollars off  
uh_huh  
sure  
somebody you trust  
you know there are so many rip off artists here in this town  
it's it's uh it's really a sin  
it really is  
i got taken on some on firewood  
i mean uh uh the guy shorted us a half a cord of firewood  
and my wife didn't know  
and i stopped payment on the check  
and he'd already been paid by a [cashing] firm  
and and they're suing us they're suing me on this  
and it's for a hundred and thirty four dollars  
absolutely pathetic  
oh okay  
well  
probably something like that  
did you call them and tell them you just you just  
might be a good idea because you're going to get what a a check  
get us going  
are are you at t i austin  
or  
oh that's great  
no  
uh uh my daughter has talked to my daughter up here with us  
i have another one  
and she's talked to students uh  
so i guess they have uh sent this to their customers and people in colleges and things  
so they're  
if you're a computer user  
so my daughter has talked to two students uh that were non   t i  
so i guess  
oh yeah  
we're on finances  
have you have you retired  
or uh  
oh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
it's uh that's  
the finances  
i guess we're on the subject of finances  
it is tough  
uh i've been with t i  
i'm just going to be fifteen years this year  
and and that's a tough thing uh the salary thing  
t i doesn't quite always do it right  
well what about our our our financial budget  
well you you should have a lot of information on a budget then if you're uh  
well you you you deserve an honor for that a gold star for that i guess  
right  
sure  
well i guess i do  
i do have a long term budget  
i got a daughter in college and one going to be in college  
so that i've been thinking about that for quite a while  
now monthly no  
i'll tell you a funny story about budgeting  
and i've been married twenty six years  
and i did you know that the macho thing  
the man always did the bills for   i don't know fifteen years or more  
and i got so sick of it trying to balance the budget uh one  
and i always tried to show my wife you know here's how you  
once a year i'd say here's how you do the budget in case i get sick  
or here's how you do the checks you know  
one day i gave her the checkbook  
and i said i'm not doing this anymore  
you do it  
you learn it  
and i've been happy ever since  
she does it all now for about ten years  
and i don't even  
she complains to me about it  
she threatens me to give it back to me  
and i said i've been a happy man since i haven't   [fooled] with that checkbook you know  
so i know it's a big pain to try to do that  
right  
right  
oh yeah  
yes  
i think uh that that is a tough uh  
we all  
seems to seems to be that way  
yeah  
yeah  
that's you need to do that i'll i'll i'll give you a hint  
i don't know if you're a a radio talk uh person [listener]  
do you listen to radio talk shows  
listen to bruce williams uh for financial advice  
he's on oh  
i don't know what he's going to be in austin  
he's on five seventy here  
oh  
he's nationally famous  
he's a college graduate type guy  
he's been in all  
he's an [entrepreneur]  
and he gives very practical financial advice about cars very you know not not nothing college level basic stuff  
his name is bruce williams  
he's on national radio  
uh i don't know   what it would be down there  
you might want to  
whatever your radio talk shows are down there he's on that channel  
it's   uh it's five seventy up here  
and i'd listen to talk shows for everything for gardening and everything just when i'm doing chores  
and uh   he gives a wealth of information very practical stuff  
and and he will help you avoid a lot of little things uh financially  
yeah  
there there's a lot of advice out there for how to get a budget  
and i i'm not expert again because   i don't really do it monthly  
right  
i did start a college fund  
i'm not uh i have one again at u t down there now   her first year  
and she's almost gone through her whole college fund you know  
sure go ahead  
sure  
oh no  
yeah  
right  
they give us ten minutes uh  
uh the only advice i give you on college would be there's a lot of scholarship money out there  
my daughter got a little bit not much only first year  
she got about two thousand dollars worth  
and you ought to well as your daughters approach the college age uh start finding out about the scholarship monies because there is a lot of money out there  
and uh  
uh band  
she got you know five hundred dollars at a at a clip through bands through leadership  
uh there's all kinds of civic organizations that will give you you know one shot money  
uh you get a president's award if you're you're in in high school doing  
this up by here in arlington uh  
there's a lot of  
and of course you if you you score high on the s a t   you can get you know two thousand a year you know or more  
you can get yearly money as long as you keep up your grades  
she she did very well in school  
and uh but she only got first year money  
she got about two thousand dollars  
it was only five hundred   dollars at a clip from this organization  
we called  
there were there were two or three people  
there was some little civic organization in dallas that gave money away  
and only two or three people applied  
she applied and got five hundred dollars from that  
so   look into that bit  
the year that they graduate you know before though you know while they're graduating there's all kinds of little bitty money that little clubs will give away churches and everything  
and they don't even have a dozen [applicants] because uh uh the kids are going off after the big money  
uh of course you have to have some sort of record in high school uh of of achievement and everything  
but sometimes it's just uh  
like our band gave money away  
we're a band booster club  
we gave we give uh two five hundred dollar scholarships just to kids uh who we think were worthy you know  
so   there's money out there  
go ahead  
you can talk  
i i don't want to i want to chew up the whole line here  
oh i'm an engineer  
i'm uh in fact i'm working the night because of the cutbacks and everything  
uh my job  
there were three managers jobs that were just [dissolved]  
and so they put me on nights  
i i call this my recession job  
and i'm working nights just kind of covering uh [shutdown] equipment and everything   and just being available   here  
i don't mind  
uh it beats being laid off and everything  
and uh you   you got to be a little flexible  
uh in my old age i'm trying to just hang in there until i get my kids through school  
and then i'd like to teach maybe [mathematics] or something  
i'm trying to study for that now  
right uh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
right  
oh sure  
well it's tough right now for everybody  
up here in the dallas metroplex it's awful  
hey i've got another clue for you for college  
another clue for you for college money  
go to work for u t  
uh we have a friend who works who is a secretary for t c u you know up here  
they give you scholarship a hundred percent if you're if you work for t c u  
yes  
so   check that one out you know  
ask them about it  
call them  
and because it's full full scholarship  
now it's uh not room and board  
but it's tuition full tuition paid if your parent works at t c u  
and her her mother went over there just for that  
okay  
well i left t i in january  
but i signed up for this before i did  
oh i think that's a   that's a good idea  
all right  
oh no  
no  
no  
no  
actually i left t i um had basically set my sights to leave t i when they announced there would be no salary increases in ninety one because i i definitely need to make a little more money  
and uh i haven't really accomplished that yet  
but i'm trying  
i wish i did  
i i hope you're you're a person who does things better than  
i i don't have a budget  
that's one of my goals for this year is to try to get myself in a good oh long range planning budget mode  
um i'm a single mom  
and i've been just uh trying to get  
thank you  
it's nice to have someone understand that  
how about yourself  
do you have a budget you live by  
uh_huh  
right  
well that's great  
how about your  
oh  
it really is  
it it really is  
you know that was always a a major problem in our marriage  
what i have always identified is i am basically good with money  
it i don't really need a budget to tell me not to spend it  
i   think that comes from never having enough  
you know i'm always afraid of i'm going to need some and where will it be  
so um no  
i i've i've finally worked myself into a spot where i can budget  
when i when i was first divorced i had um i sat down and budgeted  
and i had [outgo] that was much higher than what i had coming in  
i tried to hang onto a house that was way too expensive for me  
and   and so now that i've gotten you know i lost the house now that i've gotten past that i can sit down and say okay  
this is the reality  
this is how much money i have each month  
the scary thing is as far as long term i don't have anything  
i don't know if you have an i r a or uh you know  
and i've got two girls also  
and i haven't saved anything for their college  
and  
sometimes i have  
uh_huh  
well i'll check that out  
uh_huh  
you've learned a lot  
well that's that's good to know how  
uh_huh  
well you must have done something  
you're you're helping your children in school  
and you're   you know  
uh_huh  
excuse me jim  
could you hold on  
i have someone at the door  
i'll be right back  
thank you  
i think we might have just screwed up the computer  
but we'll find out  
oh  
and and how did your daughter get scholarship money on  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
wow  
oh i'm definitely going to be   actively looking into that  
uh_huh  
well that's great to know  
yeah  
that's good  
oh well you're doing you're doing just fine  
and and uh actually i when i talk i usually like to ask a lot of questions  
i was wondering what you do at t i  
oh goodness  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh absolutely  
yeah  
oh i hope you can do that  
what what i did is  
i was approached  
and and i've i went to t i just right at the time that uh my marriage was ending  
i had been a a stay at home mom  
and   and i i was very fortunate in starting  
and i really enjoyed it while i was at t i  
but you know the cutbacks were really getting to be rather frightening  
and i had less than five years  
and also i wanted to make a little bit more money  
so i decided i'd like to go out and try sales  
and uh i'm i'm out trying to sell telephone systems to businesses  
and the potential there is fantastic  
the reality of it is it's tough  
exactly  
uh_huh  
okay  
yes  
they do  
i'm going to check that  
i've got   i've got two friends that work at at u t  
i didn't know that all  
definitely i will  
uh_huh  
well that sounds fantastic  
so uh describe your family budget  
well yeah  
and to some extent utilities i imagine  
they have that to some extent here  
but it's not quite as good  
and uh transportation expenses  
i guess you own a car  
and you know how much you're going to drive every week  
huh  
yeah  
i understand that  
we we have a real similar situation  
ours uh have [quintupled] at least  
so there is a real family budget  
yeah  
if you're lucky  
exempt or nonexempt  
wow  
must be nice  
part of the high price spread uh  
no  
well we don't we do  
but we don't have a family budget  
we have the fixed things we have to pay  
and we have the things that are extras  
but it seems that by and large the extras just don't exist  
and well you know the auto budget  
car payment sucks a hell of a lot of it dry  
and insurance  
is insurance bad there  
well we've got one eighty nine  
wow  
that's not bad  
four hundred and something a year  
that's that's  
that's cheaper than we pay  
well here in colorado it's even worse because we have no fault  
do you have that there  
well no [fault's] rather funny in colorado because it seems that everyone pays all the time   instead of just the guilty party pays  
you're kidding  
god  
not at all  
they don't even try to keep up with it  
god  
so you lived in texas for a while  
huh  
are where you from originally  
huh  
so you just basically went home when you had a chance  
that's nice  
god  
that's great  
uh i'm a native texan  
west texan  
there is a difference  
yeah  
well i'm a west texan  
lubbock midland [odessa]   amarillo dumas panhandle  
a different world from down there  
so uh [colorado's] been fun  
but they have a real problem  
next to every window the state seems to have put up a [turnstile]  
and every time you look at a look at the mountains   or think about looking at the mountains you got to throw in a dollar  
or so it seems  
i may just be paranoid  
but that state income tax is just eating me alive  
yeah  
yeah  
property taxes and  
yeah  
well colorado you know they have the state income tax  
but then they also have property taxes  
and they also have sales taxes  
and they just get you every direction they can  
and i just don't know sir  
but it seems like they trying to get you every which way  
oh yeah  
i've heard of the book  
legally  
legally   cut money on your taxes  
huh  
and that includes everyone at t i  
well even the you know the [nonexempts] technically yet we haven't had our salary frozen yet  
but when you're only at living wage it doesn't matter  
you know survival is a funny state  
yeah  
did well i've been with the company for sixteen years now  
i was a w f for several years  
and it just never seems to improve  
it and it doesn't seem to get much better for the [exempts] either unless you're twenty eight or above  
it's really a shame  
oh  
well i've uh for a lot of years i i've pretty much [flied] without one  
and uh just recently uh we we set up a budget  
and and we're trying to stick to it  
we just bought a new house  
so we've got everything you know pretty much we know what our uh our fixed expenses are per month  
and then we've got some ones that are variable that pretty much stay within a certain range  
and then uh then there's the ones that you never know anything about  
and that's that's the food  
budget   yeah  
well the utilities are pretty much  
you can pretty much figure what they're going to be  
and one of the nice things here is the electric company has a plan where they'll average them out for you  
uh_huh  
yes  
sir  
well i used to um i used to know uh fairly close to exactly how many miles i drove because i i was very convenient i lived uh nine tenths of a mile from work  
so so it was you know two miles a day to and from work  
so it kind of cut my transportation costs a lot  
but now i've just bought a new house  
and i'm a half hour  
and so my transportation costs have gone up by uh five times  
yeah  
pretty much um  
the problem is there never seems to be enough money  
i have three children  
and it seems like the more money you make the more money you have the more things that they seem to need  
and uh of course nothing ever goes down  
i mean uh i remember  
i have five children total  
i have three left in the house  
and i can remember years ago when school would start  
and i'd go buy all five kids you know shoes  
and i could get out of the out of the shoe store without spending more than thirty five dollars  
nowadays thirty five dollars buys about one pair of shoes  
yeah  
so i mean things have just really gone out of sight in the last uh i guess about the last ten years  
i'm exempt  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
um i've got uh two older cars  
there both  
one's a seventy seven  
and one's a seventy eight  
and my insurance is about it was running about four hundred dollars a year  
but when i moved to the new town i live in  
because it's a different county which has less crime and uh less you know less highways  
and so it's a cheaper place to live as far as the insurance company's concerned  
so my my i think my insurance dropped about sixty dollars a year  
it's actually three hundred and forty for each one of the cars  
yeah  
i was down in texas for two years  
and i was paying unbelievable rates for both car insurance and for home insurance um  
yeah  

they have no fault in maryland also  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's kind of it's kind of strange here the way things go uh  
here if you have an accident and no one's injured the police won't even show up  
nope  
they say if nobody's injured you all exchange names and take it up with your insurance company  
well if you  
i don't know how familiar you are with maryland  
but uh  
especially the center part of maryland where i ninety five runs through it is really heavily populated  
there's just so many people and so many accidents every single day that it'd take a whole another police force just to answer the traffic  
no  
not a bit  
yes  
sir  
i spent uh couple of years down there  
moved down there in eighty seven  
and moved out in eighty nine  
uh right here in maryland  
yeah  
my family uh didn't like texas  
and i had a chance to uh transfer up  
t i bought a company about seven months after i moved to texas right here in  
so i got an opportunity to transfer back  
and i took it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
believe me  
i know there is  
i lived in plano  
and i don't know if you're familiar with plano  
but plano maybe five percent of the plano actually were from texas  
everybody else was an import  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they have a state income tax in maryland  
but i noticed when i was in the in the in texas they didn't have a state income tax  
but they sure [nailed] you on those darn county taxes and   school taxes and property taxes  
oh my god  
ate you alive  
yeah  
yeah  
it sure does um  
there's uh some good books that i've read um that you might be interested in uh  
charles d [gibbons] is the guy who runs some ads on light night t v  
and he's got seminars you can go to  
and they try to hook you into his organization which costs about four hundred bucks  
but he's got a couple of books out  
one of them is called uh wealth without risk  
yes  
it's a very good book  
it's tells you how to cut money on your taxes and on your insurance and then   what to do with the money that you save  
yes  
yes  
legally legally cut money on your taxes and on your insurance  
and then he tells you how to invest that money in order to uh you know be wealthier uh  
he also has a new book out that i purchased right before i moved and haven't had a chance to crack it open yet um  
financial self defense is the name of it uh  
the man uh has a lot of good ideas  
some of them i already knew about  
some of them i had already practiced  
but i suggest it to anyone who wants to be better off financially to read it because uh  
yes  
i'm one of the ones that had my salary frozen for ninety one  
yes  
yet  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
i uh when i was in dallas i was supervisor  
and i had four non [exempts] um under me  
and uh i was appalled at what how they were paying them  
i just couldn't believe it  
yeah  
yeah  
well i i've this company that they bought they ended up buying a very high payroll  
and uh the you know i thought i was making a good wage  
hi maureen  
how are you  
well do you have a family budget  
okay  
we do a few things  
and i have to say we're my husband and i are both from financial backgrounds  
i i'm an accountant  
and uh he has an m b a  
so uh we were sort of you know keyed in on expenses and things like that  
so  
um coming from that background what we pretty much do is we in our household as far as living expenses we live on a cash budget  
every month my husband uh goes to the credit union and [withdraws] you know x amount of dollars for the month  
and then that money is used during that month  
we have a certain budget  
excuse me for instance i control all the household expenses the groceries uh the [haircuts] the gasoline for my car any miscellaneous expenses baby sitting things like that  
and uh excuse me if uh it comes the end of the month and i don't have any money uh we don't buy any more milk  
but uh we've gotten pretty good at it  
we've been doing it a couple of years now  
so we our budgets are realistic  
and they are not so stringent and you know to make us feel uncomfortable  
and i i really try to stretch my my dollars here and there shopping uh at [warehouses] sometimes like at sam's and things like that  
but uh we live we live on on a cash budget  
and it sometimes it's tight come the end of the month  
but generally we always make it  
right  
well uh most of our medical things we don't uh have to worry about because of insurance  
and they're they're relatively small  
uh we've been lucky  
in the past we didn't have that problem  
but right now we don't  
for the other things the things that crop up that we aren't really expecting we have different funds set aside for different things  
like we have a car fund  
and we put a certain amount of money into that every single month whether we need to or not  
so i mean  
and i i can't really remember what it is  
it's all part of the savings account  
we just keep track of it on paper  
uh you know a certain amount goes straight to the savings account  
we decide okay you know let's say it's a hundred dollars  
you know every month fifteen dollars is for car fund you know  
ten dollars is for vacation fund whatever  
uh and we just we constantly do that so that there's a [buildup] of money for those things if something does come up  
like i know that my washing machine is going to go any day  
so but we have the money set aside  
so if it does it's not going to kill us  
uh so we're we're actually we're pretty disciplined  
so it makes those surprises not so difficult to get through  
well in  
uh we have a lot of different things  
right now we save about twenty five percent of our of our pay  
it and it goes toward different things  
it's for you know for vacations like i said for you know emergencies like for car uh breaks down something like that  
uh and we also put money aside for our kids college  
neither of us had any help with our college degrees  
and just this last month we paid off my final school loan  
so  
we're starting our kids a little bit early  
do you uh use a lot of credit cards or your checking account when you go out and buy things  
sure  
uh_huh  
that's good  
oh and it's not deductible anymore  
yeah  
we did we did that for a long time  
and it got to the point where we had no idea how much we were spending on things  
and it seemed like we didn't have enough money when things [cropped] up you know  
so we decided to put ourselves on a cash budget  
well the first time we did it we just took some [arbitrary] amount that we [estimated] it would be  
and then we kept track of everything for a month   you know how much we spent on food how much we spent on gasoline how much we spent on everything   and from that built you know a cash budget  
so now i mean i have  
i don't remember what it is now four hundred dollars for the month let's say  
and uh i mean some months i may spend three hundred on groceries and a hundred on everything else  
and some months it may be different  
it's not as though we feel like we have to keep ourselves you know down to the dollar or the penny in certain categories kind of thing  
but the way we set up you know the amount that we want to save and the amounts that we have to spend for you know uh utilities and uh the house payment and all that  
those are things you don't really have much control over  
uh the cash budget just fits right in there  
like i said if we don't have we also set aside money for entertainment  
i mean but again it's a set amount every month   and uh on special occasions i mean birthdays and things like that  
we we don't we still have fun on things  
well no  
not originally because when we we did buy when we bought our first house it was at a time where you  
and the kind of loan we got you really didn't have to put down anything  
so we got into it fairly [cheaply]  
and then uh after we sold the first house we were left with enough cash that there was enough to make the down payment on this house  
so we we got out of that one pretty easily  
sure  
i know  
that's how i feel sometimes about my kids' education  
i mean jeez they are one and four  
we have got a long time to save  
my husband he's the real he's the real [disciplinarian] when it comes to that money usually  
oh no  
no  
what do you do with it  
i know  
uh_huh  
right   oh yeah  
yeah  
it's it's amazing how much we spend on some things  
my husband cut himself down to ten dollars a week for his lunch at work  
and that's all he has  
he has a ten dollar bill  
and i mean so i'd say at least two usually three times a week he takes his lunch  
the other times he'll uh i don't know go out somewhere   eat in a cafeteria or whatever  
but but he keeps himself on that  
i mean he found it's it's so easy to spend five dollars a day on lunch  
that's a hundred dollars a month on lunch  
that's that's twelve hundred dollars a year just on lunch  
when he can take a sandwich you know  
all right  
no  
we probably should  
but we haven't  
so why don't you explain to me some good tips about what you've done which you've found useful and workable  
uh_huh  
um okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hm  
uh_huh  
what do you do for the surprise things that you don't necessarily plan for  
the you know are sometimes several hundred dollars like uh tires for the car or car repair of some sort   or like a a dental bill or something that you're not prepared for  
oh  
do you kind of continue call this like a part of savings account or a different savings account  
or  
oh  
oh okay  
hm  
okay  
then so like your pay what kind of a percentage do you basically keep out that you think that you know will cover all of the expenses kind of thing  
or like what what percent do you then save or something  
hm okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
okay  
checking account a lot uh not so much credit cards  
now several years back i used to use uh charge cards and you know all the time kind of thinking oh well it's on sale you know it must be a good deal   there have been times that i have been bad about the credit cards  
and so pretty much now uh we don't use them too much  
if we travel or something yeah but you know   standard we usually don't  
or if it it is a purchase uh then it's paid off when the bill comes  
you know so it isn't any extended uh  
it may be that i picked up something at the store  
but then when the bill comes we always pay it off then  
so it's not any you know uh build up on the charge cards at all  
and but that hasn't always been the case  
so i'm kind of  
i feel at least better now that i have finally gotten some of those things uh you know in the past  
and i don't have you know big [cumulative] amounts due to those charge cards because that interest rate just is a killer  
yeah  
well i've never been in the situation of [itemizing] anyhow  
but uh pretty much when i always i go to the grocery store or something i just always write checks  
hm  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh we are in the process of trying to buy a house  
do you know how did your budget work  
or did you have a budget to uh get your down payment going to get a house  
huh  
oh okay  
okay uh  
yeah  
i just keep thinking all the time  
i mean it it's really rough to keep yourself on a strict budget for a long long time when your you know your priority at least mine is to save for the house  
but then it's awful hard to really [scrimp] for a long long time and keep putting all the money into that down payment  
you feel like you want to live a little bit in the meantime  
uh_huh  
well i know  
but there are times when i sit there and i think wow you know we make x amount of money and where is it  
i mean you look around  
and you go   where is it  
you you haven't made uh big purchases  
and that's the easier thing to see  
if you can see a big purchase and you go okay well this is the year that we bought the couch or the t v   or something like that  
but all those just monthly payments and stuff that just go out the door  
and there's big chunks of your money to pay like the utilities and the gas and the groceries   and stuff  
that you don't have tangible i mean the [perishable] kind of things that's gone used and gone  
oh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
ready to talk  
okay  
uh i want to talk about um our family budget   and the times that it's worked and the times that it hasn't worked and   give you a general description of it  
and you can help me out a little  
bit  
tell me how yours works  
well at the  
i introduced you a little bit to it a few minutes ago when i said that we are uh we're on the east coast now  
my husband quit a perfectly wonderful job and decided that  
well we both decided we wanted to move to north carolina  
and so naturally we put ourselves  
we looked at our budget  
and so what we did was draw up a budget that we thought uh was realistic  
and uh so we had to make some adjustments  
because we really are kind of looking for something that we want to do and he wants to do that's [satisfactory]  
and we've been here seven months  
and he's still hasn't hit up on anything permanently  
so you see  
well we actually planned for about one year  
uh that god because   it never occurred to   it never occurred to us that it would take seven months  
and uh what we did was just uh decide how we had been spending our money before  
and then we put that on the computer  
and then we took about three months and uh and adjusted   where we could come down and where we didn't want to come down  
and we really uh lessened it uh our living expenses uh more than what we thought we would  
but  
oh just our own design  
uh_huh  
and the  
so but we've had budgets that didn't work when our uh you know  
of  
our first fifteen years or eighteen years of being married nothing worked  
we spent too much money   until our children went to college  
so   so tell me about  
do you all uh have a budget  
wonderful  
yes  
three and a two year old  
bang  
bang  
uh_huh  
well i think that's important for your budget to be  
for it to work though you have to do something  
of course not  
well i found uh that in the place that it was harder for me to stick to a budget was not where we were concerned   but where maybe our friends were concerned and our relatives and parents  
uh we we tended to want to keep on giving lavish   gifts as   we had done before  
and i really believe that if you're going to cut down on yourself you need to cut down somewhat on your friends  
yes  
well i really do  
i think you have to budget those things though  
yes  
exactly  
although so much per month anyway  
and uh that really should be in your  
but if you don't spend it it should be in your bank account at the end of the month  
oh no  
no  
no  
no  
you don't want the government to spend your money  
you want to be able  
well uh but i do realize that that is realistic for some people  
and it was for us many years   for many years  
uh and if and if that's the only way that will it will make you save and have a little nest egg at the end of the the year then doggone it that's what you should do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i was just reading an article in uh a north carolina paper today where a high school student obtained over two hundred thousand dollars worth of scholarships for herself by sitting up at night and typing at uh letters of applications to universities  
she was she was third out of a class of two hundred and twenty  
so it can be done  
where there's a will   where there's a will there's a way right  
well i have enjoyed talking to you  
oh i know  
we'll have to stay home and mow the yard  
bye bye  
i guess so  
okay  
okay  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh no  
that throws the budget out of whack real fast  
oh good  
really  
that was smart  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
wow that's great  
did you have a special program on your computer to do that  
or was this just your own design of  
uh_huh  
gosh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well we've been married for five and a half years  
and we started out without kids of course and found it much easier to save and used to do a lot more fun kinds of of things and uh did really um you know have a real strict but budget  
but uh the  
about and  
to our  
[wh-] when we first got married we were in graduate school  
and we were just you know dirt poor  
then when we got our first jobs after about a year of marriage we decided we'd bank my salary so we could buy a house  
so we virtually did that for about two years   which worked real well and then moved from california where we realized we could never buy a house anyway no matter how much we saved   and moved to texas bought a house immediately you know which of course is now devalued with the housing market  
so i don't know if we we did a good thing to buy a house or not  
but at least we've got a place to live  
um so now since uh we have a three year old and a two year old now um  
uh_huh  
that's that's that threw our budget really out of whack too  
an we um have been just forced to budget much more because i quit working to be home with the kids  
and um we just really have uh  
i don't know  
we we've tried different times  
we've done like a survey of like taking you know the past three months of where all the money went  
and we really don't spend on anything much of a luxury or anything at all  
but it seems like there's um times when we just have to get out where we'll go and like get a baby sitter and we'll go and we'll blow you know fifty sixty dollars in one night going out to eat going to a show or doing something you know  
yeah  
that's the hard part because when we sit down to make it we try to make it real [spartan] and real narrow so we can put a certain amount in savings every week  
and then it's not really that realistic  
because we do find that we want to go and do something or splurge for you know birthday for somebody  
or you know even we we even do things real [frugally] for the kids  
we get a lot of toys and clothes and stuff at garage sales or from friends because they don't know the difference at this age you know whether they're [jordache] new or whether they're   you know something  
and they're both boys  
so they just one year after the other in each other's clothes  
so but um that's the hardest part for us is that it's really um you know budgeting and some extra things you know that are more you know [nonessential] items  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
on your friends  
that's true  
that's true  
well we have so many unexpected things come up so often it seems with  
we both have older cars  
and something will come up and wind up having to spend a thousand dollars you know on the car in two months or something  
and you know a lot of things like that that really are hard to plan for  
and uh  
yeah  
kind of put in a certain amount per year  
you're going to have on extra expenses for car  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
our biggest way of saving money is then to stop all these deductions um you know is to  
let's see  
now i forget which way we do it  
we don't list all the deductions  
and then we get more money back you know at the end of the year  
so that's not a good way to  
that's what my husband said  
so this last year he changed it of course  
we didn't get hardly and then nearly as much back  
and it was like oh no  
better find another way of saving money  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
because we don't miss it  
we really don't when it's just taking out of the paycheck and stuff  
so   but we're trying to put a little money away for the kids because we can envision the uh expenses for college already you know eighteen years away or whatever  
gosh  
i guess  
that's fantastic  
yeah  
well i enjoyed talking to you too  
good luck  
and don't spend any money this weekend  
oh boy  
bye  
go ahead  
so ken how do you do your family budget  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh yeah  
huh_uh  
well then you just pay it off at the end of the month  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
oh  
that's a real good idea  
yeah  
see now i'd never get my wife to be able to follow that  
before we got married i had money in the bank  
i owned my own home  
i put in so much money each you know month towards long term savings you know like in uh mutual funds and things you know  
and uh after i got married  
no  
it just didn't work anymore  
she spends a lot  
she likes to spend on anything and everything with body lotion everything  
so we really haven't we don't have a good organized system yet  
maybe after awhile i'll rub off on her or something  
i don't think  
yeah  
huh_uh   yeah  
yes  
so am i  
well uh in information systems  
i'm a voice researcher  
huh_uh  
yeah  
so does mine  
huh_uh  
yeah  
see i think we might have to do that  
of course she looks at what she brings home each week  
it's going to be hard for her to uh not have her own money because like now you know i put money in the bank and saved to go back to graduate school for two years  
and now she wants to go back to school  
but she saved enough maybe to get her through august  
you know and that's it  
and i keep saying now laura you're going to have to save a little money  
i don't know if my [paltry] graduate student fees are going to get us through  
it doesn't work ken  
my mother always said now don't argue about money  
so we don't  
but you know there goes my savings  
but you know it's one of those things  
yeah  
now see my wife will do things like make clothes  
one of our one of our big investments that you know i was wholeheartedly in favor of was to buy a sewing machine because she makes clothes  
and you know a descent sewing machine will really help her out  
and she's already made you know presents and gifts and things for   shorts for me and things for the summer  
you know so i guess i can't you know we've probably almost paid off the sewing with uh   yeah with the savings from that  
so i can't complain too much you know  
she's she's good about that  
and also we we [dine] at home a lot  
you know she likes to cook  
so that saves us from restaurants or whatever  
but   but she does have things where she likes to [pamper] herself that just to me seem like money dumped down a drain   you know  
yeah  
huh_uh  
you know but you need a hobby  
yeah  
that's true  
i know  
and those nails are so expensive  
oh gosh  
i was so excited when she decided she wasn't going to do her nails anymore  
i guess she just stopped [polishing] them because they were yellow  
and then she waits for them to get their color back  
and then she'll polish them again  
i don't know whatever  
so she stopped for awhile  
boy what a difference  
they buy nail polish every two weeks  
it's uh  
my gosh  
and lotion oh my goodness body lotion  
we spend more on soft on on body [lotions] with sesame oil and all these different things than uh  
she must spend more on one application of body lotion than i do on soap for an entire year  
yeah  
it's funny  
oh i think so  
she's always soft  
that's true  
yeah  
but i think um  
i don't know  
maybe after we're not in school anymore we'll be much better at saving  
i think uh   i think that's uh  
i sold my house  
and that's what's really paying for my time unemployed or whatever   because the graduate [assistantship] really doesn't cover the ten thousand dollars in tuition really doesn't cover living expenses um  
we actually live in two different places right now because she has her job  
so that makes it hard with uh you know  
we're paying double rent double utilities  
and that makes it sort of expensive  
but see i live within my   i live within my very menial income  
and she doesn't  
she doesn't live within her professional income you know  
so i just get a  
yeah  
and then even if we want to see each other on weekends it's twenty five thirty dollars in gas every weekend  
and that really adds up too you know  
so it gets tough  
i think we'll do much better when we're living together and we're only paying one rent and one telephone  
you know it will cut our telephone bills you know by five by four fifths you know   if she's here  
so it's actually tough this year  
but it will be better in june  
she will move in with me in june  
so hopefully our budget will in increase then  
no  
just since december  
yeah  
we're very newlyweds  
but that's the  
we we're together probably for um uh very close for about six months before we got married  
so you know we lived within  
though i had my own house and things you know we still uh we're still pretty close  
i knew her spending habits  
and they're about the same  
they haven't changed at all you know  
my mother always said to me tom now the best thing to do is be like you're father  
never say a word when you're wife spends money  
and i was like well that's true my dad never said a word you know  
so  
yeah  
i don't argue with her  
but i just get all  
it must show in my face  
must be like must be [cringes] or something you know   especially yesterday or this past weekend  
we met half way between at her parents house  
and um she had on a new pair of jeans  
and she'd gotten all new underwear  
and i was like laura   how did you get all this stuff  
well i just got paid  
and and i was like oh  
it was there  
it was burning  
it had to be spent  
you know and i'm like  
and she said everything was on sale  
oh oh that's good  
at least it was on sale  
that's good honey  
i'm glad you bought it on sale  
what else can you say  
yeah  
i think  
yeah  
you don't notice it  
i think that's probably a really good idea  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
see i was  
when i had when i was living alone and i had my own house and things uh i put one i was paid twice a month  
one paycheck went into savings  
and one went into the checking account that paid the mortgage   and the food bills  
and it  
and i was even able to you know to accumulate some savings in a sense in the checking account because i'm pretty [thrifty]  
and you know but my wife likes to spend  
she enjoys  
so that's fine  
but a  
for savings i'll have to look into that  
huh_uh  
huh_uh  
yeah  
oh really because of the heavy ice  
it broke the limbs  
huh_uh  
right  
yeah  
huh_uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i can see that  
i can that  
i keep trying to say to her laura don't spend so much  
what happens if something happens to a car you know  
oh well nothing will happen  
oh  
well we don't actually have a budget budget per se  
what we do is uh maintain a normal checkbook you know like   everyone in the world does i guess  
and occasionally it actually balances  
and um we also we um we have a a u s air and visa card  
every every dollar we every dollar we charge is a mile for our frequent [flier] mileage  
it's a real good deal actually if you charge a lot  
so what we what my wife and i have taken to doing is charging everything in sight  
anything we buy we charge including groceries and so forth  
so what we'll do is  
right  
we actually maintain a  
we have a we we we we have a checking account that we treat like a savings  
scratch that  
we have a savings account that we treat like a checking account  
and so what we do is we anytime we do or make or charge something we write it out as if we wrote a check  
and then at the end of the month all the money to covered already  
so we just pay it off without having to worry about any interest or anything  
it keeps us hopping  
huh_uh  
well you know you know you know what's always good is sort of a for savings where they just take money out of you're pay  
we did that for awhile where um  
we actually still do it with with my wife's salary   where we put it we have a separate a third account even a savings account in in an entirely different bank   where what we do is take money out of her paycheck every week  
i'm a graduate student  
oh really  
in what field  
oh okay  
i'm in uh [psycholinguistics] actually  
um but my wife has a real job  
yeah  
what we do is we take money out of her out of her paycheck each week  
and put it it goes directly to another account that we don't at an entirely different bank that we don't have access to so easily  
and it goes there  
and it stays there  
and it builds up until we need it for something  
oh  
gee  
right  
god  
i got lucky  
my wife apparently is not a  
she likes to spend  
but she's pretty good about things  
wow  
that was great   with the money savings there   that's good  
right  
well   i guess we all have those feelings  
i uh i uh i i go to uh  
i pay what i think is a lot of money to go to a karate class you know  
right  
exactly  
but that to her is sort of like a waste  
but she does her nails  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
good old ivory  
um well it's for your benefit though right  
so that's helpful  
yeah  
now do you still own a house  
you said you owned one  
that's great  
right  
oh wow  
that's the killer two apartments  
wow  
eventually right  
i mean you're not going to  
right  
have you been married for long  
oh wow  
so you guys really are newlyweds  
oh wow  
yeah  
i actually encourage my wife to spend money sometimes   because i think you know um i sort of feel guilty you know given that she makes twice as much as i do  
so i say if she wants to go out and buy something i never argue with her because she's real good at you know sort of  
yeah  
had some money in her pocket yeah  
that's right  
i do recommend the for savings bit  
they uh   they take it out or your paycheck before you see it because it doesn't hurt  
you know you don't even think about it if it's gone  
yeah  
so uh until you really need it  
and then you realize you've got a couple of thousand dollars built up someplace else  
right  
yeah  
that's that's been our [godsend] you know  
we've had some sort of major emergencies come up you know where  
we also own our own house  
um we had an ice storm up here   recently where it was i mean it was horrible  
i mean half the city owned trees  
one third of all vegetation in this county is just wiped out  
yeah  
exactly  
we had to our backyard tremendous [willow] tree that just fortunately  
but it cost us you know a couple of hundred dollars just to bring the tree down   i mean just to take off what was broken  
plus we went with a friend  
and they said you know  
and then the whole ice storm cost us quite a bit of money even though insurance picked up some of it   still not all of it  
they don't get you know  
and that  
plus  
and then we had a car expense like that same week  
one of the cars died you know  
all of this adds up  
and that for savings really comes in handy  
right  
okay uh  
well do you uh keep a family budget  
or do you have some  
uh_huh  
oh interesting  
yes  
well uh we sort of started doing it years and years ago  
and my husband started graduate school when we were first married  
and i sort of just got in the habit i guess and you know never have gotten out of it  
i cannot really say that it's a formal budget  
it's more just a a pretty uh a fairly uh accurate uh recording of what i spend   and what i think i am going to have to spend  
and uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
that sounds real similar  
um  
oh my  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
i think you are right um uh  
well it must have been sort of interesting to us  
is to uh it's because since i have pretty much kept my record books for the last fifteen years i guess i can go back and look  
and it's real fun to just see how things have changed over the years uh  
for instance  
my goodness  
oh dear  
yes  
oh yes  
well as a matter of fact uh my mother was going through some things not not long ago i guess it has been a couple of years ago in an old trunk that she had  
and she came upon a a budget book that she had back in the thirties uh   when they  
it was the late well  
i guess it would have been i will take that back it must have been in the forties because they had been married uh probably fifteen years at the time  
and it was just uh fascinating to see how little things cost  
i mean it was   it was just almost [laughable] in some instances that you know  
of course it's all relative of course  
but uh never the less it was fun to see those figures next to you know  
for a pair of shoes was like five dollars  
and  
um  
oh  
oh isn't that   something  
really  
oh that is that is really really something  
that's true  
yeah  
that's that's right  
that's that's just good old economics working  
well uh we have tried to uh instill some some sense of uh of budgeting in our kids  
but our two children are just uh as um unlike as night and day  
and   our son could care less about a budget  
and our daughter watches her pennies so closely   that she almost she almost just sounds like your father  
i mean she has everything planned so closely   that if   something goes wrong it just throws her for a loop  
yes  
right  
yes  
yes  
yeah  
i think that is true  
i uh  
and   i think that is probably what happened in our house  
because i think my husband was not quite as uh good at saving and so on before we got married  
and i was i was really diligent about that  
i was putting money aside and when before i was married you know when i was working out of college  
and   uh that really paid off  
because when time came for him to go back to graduate school we were in in fairly good shape financially as far as not having any major debts  
and  
yeah  
uh he is an engineer  
he is uh   an electrical engineer and in fact went through uh many years of graduate school and got his p h d  
so we   had a lot of lot of years of budgeting  
and you know  
yeah  
when you  
uh yes  
well i'm working   i'm working on my masters degree now  
so in fact this last year we had three  
both of the children were in college  
our son has a year left  
and our daughter graduated this year  
and i'm just about ready to finish my masters degree  
so we have had uh once again you know some really a real lean year for us  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you know exactly what it   what it's like then  
and it's uh  
which you learn  
i guess you figure that that is an investment that is uh really a [invaluable]  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is right  
so it's it's one that you can live through  
and i   think that that's the way that we looked at it in our [beginnings] when my husband was in graduate school that there was a light at the end of that tunnel you know   that that it was worth it to save and to not have uh something and uh in return know that something better was going to be at the end of it  
so   uh it really makes it easier  
but uh well i have enjoyed talking with you jerry  
and i i wish i could hear more about your historian part of your life because that sounds really fascinating to me  
i am interested in that  
oh  
oh wow  
well my my husband   and i just went there last year  
um actually we did not take a tour  
we we were in england and and uh went to ireland and [scotland] and just rented cars and   did it on our own  
but uh um i  
that sounds interesting  
is your business in dallas then  
okay  
oh you are kidding  
well i'm going to be teaching at brookhaven in the fall  
[kuenzer] k u e n z e r  
and i'm  
uh_huh  
z e r  
and i will be   in the communications department teaching uh english one oh one to  
i have a couple of sections  
yes  
yeah  
that's the guy who hired me  
yes  
fantastic  
well it's been good it's been a good type conversation  
bye bye  
no  
i don't use a family budget  
my father who is very old has kept one his entire life  
and i probably [rebelled] against it  
i probably should have kept one  
he keeps every penny that comes in and goes out   on a very strict percentage  
right  
i think it makes much more sense  
and i have recently uh gotten out of debt and everything  
and i will probably start keeping a little better   track of it  
i just uh spent whatever came in and and uh never knew what came in and what went out   but uh just you know like about like the government runs  
huh  
so i think it is probably better to have some sort of a a at least a record  
but my dad was so precise   that i mean if it said to spend eleven percent on something that's what it was spent  
and   that was put over there  
and i mean of course he is from the depression  
and uh   so uh you know it's his life  
but uh i would i think it would be smart if somebody would keep uh some sort of a plan that works for them  
yeah  
it is  
i'm a historian  
and my father had kept them i think since nineteen twenty seven  
and uh   but he burned the ones from twenty seven to  
i could not believe he did that  
but then   so i took the ones from fifty two on to the present  
but to look to have looked back into the twenties thirties and forties it would have been fantastic   to see that  
but uh  
uh_huh  
oh  
i know  
right  
i know  
well even in nineteen sixty three  
i found a record that i had uh i travel in europe a lot and i what i had paid for hotels  
and a similar hotel in paris is two hundred dollars a night now  
and i paid uh-oh between four and five dollars   in nineteen sixty  
and that's really crazy  
cause that's about thirty years ago  
oh but of course it's just what the market will bear  
if people will pay two hundred then why charge ten  
you know  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well then you never know how they will  
one  
they may flip flop when they   get to be uh   older  
the other one may be very careful  
and she may marry somebody  
and of course it would be good because it you marry somebody a little loose then she will have that stability of watching uh  
you should have one in the in the   in the house  
and i think  
yeah  
yeah  
that's about the way it is here  
if it had not been for my wife i would have probably been in [debtor's] prison   if we had one  
so but what does you husband do now  
oh  
um  
oh yeah  
you have   to do it when   you are in school  
my wife is still in school getting her doctorate  
and it uh  
and i have got  
um  
oh i i know  
we had three   in college plus my wife  
so that was four  
so we were both in the same  
yeah  
yeah  
that is the best one  
yeah  
with education you can't   take that away from you  
right  
sure  
yeah  
that's true  
i have enjoyed talking with you kathy  
well if i had your address i would send you  
i am also in the travel business  
i   do tours  
and i can take some real great tours to europe  
so uh   if you  
yeah  
yeah  
it's here in dallas  
in the [quorum]  
so i i'm jerry [hammond]  
and i'm out at brookhaven college  
so you could just holler at me there  
yeah  
all right  
what is your last name  
k u e n  
well good  
i will  
oh well i know [zack] [miller] real well  
well wonderful  
i will look you up in the fall then  
okay  
bye bye  
uh what what is your practice as far as budgeting  
do you manage the money  
oh i see  
that's how kind of i am too  
are you married  
you are  
i think the women for the most part end up managing the money  
my husband always says he earns it and i have to spend only what he earns  
it  
well i don't work outside of the home  
and he always threatens that when i spend more than   what's coming in i have to go back to work  
so i i manage it  
now do you actually follow a budget  
well that's pretty much the way we do um or we did in the past  
i would say uh  
at this point our children are grown  
and so i really don't have the obligations there any more   that we have to balance to   you know get things together for them  
and i really just keep very good records  
and most of our expenses are fairly the same every month with the exception of utilities and things like that  
and   i try to keep my mastercards and things paid currently  
uh i don't always succeed at that  
i usually keep one with a low interest rate  
and i put things on there that i think i'm not going to get to  
and then i have another one  
but for the most part our mortgage and our utilities at this point we're in a new home and uh they take a pretty big chunk compared to what they used to  
so i'm still getting used to that  
but we make sure that we just do not buy unless we really can see how we're going to pay for it ahead  
and we do not buy us new cars  
uh do you get into car  
we do for us very much so  
in fact we are in a position that most of our friends why wonder why we just don't go to a new car you know whatever  
and i said   look you guys are all into car payments  
we haven't had car payments for so many years  
i love it this way  
and recently we just created the laugh among everyone because we had a car that we really liked  
and it has eighty two thousand miles on it  
and we were kept saying wouldn't it be great if we could find another one just like it  
believe it or not we did we found one one newer  
the worst part is it's the same color  
and so everybody's saying you're kidding   you have two cars the same  
and i said you know how when you have a bad one you say never again  
i said well we had one and we found one with just seventeen thousand miles on it  
and it's an eighty five  
and so i said hey this was a [cinch]  
we paid for the car  
and we still know now that we have this car to put all the miles on  
this is for all the long running back and forth on you know interstate driving and things  
and we intend to replace our other one with a much newer car in the next couple of years or next year probably  
generally from dealers  
and uh it depends because i don't like to sell what we're trading in to an individual   uh unless we we have done that when we had a really good one that we wanted to sell  
you know we were going up to a larger one  
but we have found that by trading in and going through a dealer and we always make a deal  
i mean we have walked out of more dealerships saying don't bring us the manager and all of that unless you want to bring him right away  
you're going to get one shot at us  
we will you know  
and they say well you're kidding you know  
i  
no  
this is the price we're going to give you out the door  
we don't want to hear about taxes  
well i we talk about it  
but i'm usually the one that sits down and puts the pencil to the paper and and tries to somehow make the ends meet which uh  
um yes  
yes  
i don't mind the spending  
it's just that trying to trying to get what you need out of out of what you have  
that seems to be our challenge  
i see  
well i'm i'm at home also  
so it does get rather interesting trying to survive on one salary uh  
well we pretty well do  
um several years we didn't  
and we found that we just weren't making the most of what we had  
and so we we um set aside a certain amount each week that goes for things that have to be paid for you know  
just our bills  
and then what's left we divvy up  
we try to save a little bit although we're not always successful  
and then the rest of it just goes for normal weekly needs  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
right  
well we had new cars um always until about four years ago  
my husband um owned his own company and it went under  
and so we could no longer afford that monthly payment  
and now it just seems just such a large amount of money to spend that that we do have a used car  
well he has a company car also  
but for our personal car we have a used car  
um do you think that it's wiser to buy used  
right  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
that's right  
wow  
right  
do you um buy from dealers or from individuals  
right  
right  
yeah  

okay  
i'll let you start  
do you all keep a budget  
and how do you hold to yours  
well that's that's good  
especially for these times  
uh_huh  
well that's a lot of it  
uh i know we tried several different ways  
one time we tried something that really worked  
but we didn't keep it up  
i passed it on to a friend  
and she won't quit doing it  
she loves it  
and that was the envelope system   where you go ahead and decide about how much based on what you did last month that you are going to spend  
and you put the cash in envelopes marked for that  
so you have one for entertainment and one for groceries et cetera  
and then for some reason taking it out of that envelope and seeing it in cash instead of in check form uh causes you to realize how much is left  
and she even writes down on the envelope as she [subtracts] and kind of [debits] on each envelope   what she's buying  
and then at the end of the of the period pay period if she has any left that much is for fun or entertainment  
and they kind of work it that way  
we tried for a while  
and a seems like the problem that they were having of all the of all the things that worked was not planning enough for the [incidentals] that we couldn't think about  
and those are the ones that will kill you  
you know the the accidental fee or the car repair or the things that weren't supposed to be every month  
uh_huh  
that's what i mean  
it was a hassle  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's that's kind of hard  
but do you sort of self budget even  
i mean you wouldn't like on payday think boy i can go do this and that and this and that  
you kind of think this is got to  
you kind of divide it in fourths in a way don't you  
right  
right  
well that's true  
what we're in the process of doing right now is paying off our credit cards entirely  
and we're going to go ahead and try to just live on what we earn instead of guessing ahead of what we probably will have next month  
oh  
yeah  
we're not there yet  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
huh  
uh_huh  
same here  
uh_huh  
well i could say it's kind of  
you know that's that's good  
you you probably have a little extra than you have to have to  
you know what i'm saying  
and so that that's the difference there where sometimes like i know if we've had an especially bad month and we're just almost getting down to payday then i think if we could really budget  
we tried one  
i know when we were planning to buy the new car and we hadn't had a car payment in five years we had to go ahead and write down each month what it was that every penny went for   to see how much was going to be left  
and that was a real eye opener  
uh_huh  
but to to have lived by that every week would have been tough for me because sometimes i'll spend less on groceries but we'll go out  
so it's kind of hard to say this is how much you're going to spend going out for fun  
this is how much you're going to spend  
it's kind of hard  
do you  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh  
how nice  
uh_huh  

well that's  
and it made a big  
and you enjoyed it better probably  
yeah  
i think so too  
so if you're out like in a department store and there's a sale you're just real careful not to let your [urges] get hold of you  
that's that's excellent  
that's what i'm working toward  
i think you're probably much ahead of me there  
and i'm working on it  
same here  
same here  
and i think though that we need to have some liquid around that you don't have to go through the company to get  
you know  
yeah  
that came up  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that's the best thing to do  
my husband said the other day it was the worst mistake we ever did to buy a new car because it wasn't worth it from the day after  
so  
rather frugal  
well that's that's going to payoff on retirement  
yeah  
well it uh  
i guess we've completed  
do you think we've been here to  
no  
i i never keep a budget  
my budget or philosophy i guess is spend as little as possible  
and uh   and it's it's sort of always worked  
uh but that depends you know on the individual if they can i guess have self control  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
well yeah  
i i couldn't probably be bothered doing that   every month  
and   and ever since  
uh well we've been married almost thirty years now  
but uh   my husband got paid once a month  
so you learn to get  
right  
you learn to get through you know to the end of the month  
and uh  
no  
no  
because if you charge things uh you pay all your bills at the beginning of the month   when you get paid  
or you get paid the last day or next to the last day  
you pay all your bills  
and there isn't anything left to spend anyway  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
we   we tried to to to  
or we are paying them off now  
uh there was a time when maybe we didn't take all of them off  
but you just sort of had to watch what you put in   because you hate to pay those finance charges   when you see how much it is  
and for most of uh  
i mean i'm a substitute teacher  
and i've only [substituted] i guess for the last fifteen years  
so there's only been really one working  
and uh it it works for me  
but i can't see that it would work for probably the majority of people  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it   it is when you do it that way  
well we we eat out a good deal at this point  
i i started [subbing] just to go on a vacation and saved   all that money so because i knew that you couldn't you know spending   five thousand dollars on a vacation   or whatever  
we were going to go for ten weeks uh   in nineteen eighty  
so i started   working in nineteen eighty seven and just saved   for three years  
but the  
what [minuscule] amount i made  
but   that way you just didn't put it on your credit card  
and and it was paid for  
yes  
and so i think that that's difficult for most people  
but then my father was   very [scotch]  
and you know you never could afford anything although we could afford everything if he wanted to um  
yes  
and i never worried about saving money because we just we're in the savings plan at work  
and they took it out  
so  
i uh  
uh_huh  
well we never had too much of that  
but then we never had any really emergencies that uh  
and we didn't buy really new or expensive cars  
i think the most my we're looking at cars now uh we ever spent for a new car was like six thousand dollars  
and they were mainly used cars  
yeah  
so  
you know we've been rather rather frugal in that   in that respect  
so  
well each time they used to call in and tell me their space is limited and to please uh  
do you want to tell me about your budgeting plan  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh into savings  
oh  
well that's pretty good  
boy that's pretty good  
sure  
yeah  
it's it's tough here too  
you have to have the contractor sign with you  
but it's easy to find a contractor for a couple of hundred bucks [who'll] sign it and let you do it  
where i live that is  
uh_huh  
oh bad for him huh  
um  
is that right  
wow  
well that's kind of handy  
i just finished james [michener's] texas book  
pretty interesting  
texas has quite the history  
that's kind of what we do  
we uh we're l d s  
and so we pay ten percent   [tithing]  
and then you know we put i guess it's like fifteen to twenty percent into a savings account  
but that sometimes we use for emergency type things  
but uh and my wife doesn't work  
we're fortunate that way that i make enough to do what we want to do  
well that's pretty  
that's a great position to be in  
is that right  
oh  
what kind of consulting do you do  
is that right  
i'm into computers too  
i   i'm a e d p auditor  
and  

and p c s  
yeah  
i'm just brushing up on well c plus plus  
uh_huh  
and  
three oh  
oh  
you got a buy  
sure  
melted or just wet  
or  
okay  
yeah  
our budgeting plan includes me getting a job  
we're we're at the point now  
i i quit working about six months ago to start this house  
and i'm out of cash  
and i'm not out of project yet  
so uh i'm going to go back and do some consulting work  
as far as budget's concerned i'm i'm fairly fortunate  
uh we've we're right now where if we don't buy anything extra we can make it on what my wife makes  
so you know the [project's] kind of [halted] until then  
but as far as budgeting is concerned you know we have uh some pretty strict guidelines that we go for you know  
we always put ten percent back  
and that's a never touch  
yeah  
either savings or investment one of the two  
but we don't ever put it in a high risk  
it's just always going to be there  
and as far as the rest of it's concerned we don't have any kind of uh what i would call extravagant expenses you know  
we uh we pretty much live on about eight nine hundred a month you know just travel to and from work and clothing and food  
and the rest of it you know we pile into the house  
and uh you know i'm fairly fortunate  
i mean our credit cards are out to the max right now because i'm   a little behind on that  
but uh we're still making the payments on them  
it's just when you  
see in texas you cannot borrow the money to build your own home   and do it yourself  
right  
exactly  
yeah  
and where i live it it's pretty scary because texas is one of those strange states where if you have a contractor sign on your note like that   and you screw up you don't get it finished  
the bank can eat the contractor  
yeah  
bad for him  
but the [homeowner] can't be touched  
it's a homestead state  
yeah  
see right now if i quit paying any of my bills  
the only thing they could do is cut off electricity  
they can't take your land unless you don't pay your land taxes period  
you know they can take your car and your clothes and your anything  
that's not the tools of your trade  
but as far as uh you know you're pretty much bullet proof in this state  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you know we're we're not ones to budget much you know  
we just going to spend it all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we're pretty pretty fortunate as far as the uh the budgeting is concerned because you know we don't have any long term debt  
you know uh we paid cash for car  
well we bought the car on time one of them  
but we you know we since paid it off  
the land is paid for cash  
so we don't have to worry about that  
well it's [fraught] with other problems  
yeah  
i'm not very motivated  
uh systems consulting [computerization] for construction firms  
yeah  
right  
oh  
you into [mainframes]  
oh really  
are you really  
i just got that a few days ago  
oh [gees]  
don't get me to lying  
i bought it at a fire sale  
this guy's place burned down  
and he had a bunch of computer stuff  
and you know i bought it all  
it was two hundred bucks for everything he had  
well some of it wasn't worth anything you know  
you know a lot of the uh [diskettes] were just totally [unusable]  
well yeah  
or wet  
but i did get out of there with uh vermont views which is a huge  
do you uh have a family budget  
or how do you work your budgeting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh well we don't have a real strict budget  
uh we have a a low budget to work on  
but we uh you know  
for like groceries we say about this much per week  
and then   we just spend about so much  
we don't i i don't know of a written figure of expenses that we you know keep to or anything  
but i know that i go to the grocery store that we always stick within you know five dollars between here and there  
a certain amount  
yeah  
oh  
wow  
that's great  
oh  
oh you guys sound pretty self sufficient  
huh  
yeah  
well that's a good idea  
let's see  
the other thing there the topic was talking about was if if uh  
all i can think of is if you don't keep a real a real tight budget how do you control expenses  
but uh one  
another thing that we do is we always fly back to california and washington each christmas  
well not fly back  
but somehow we get back there  
and uh this year we did it by train because it was the least expensive  
and  
huh  
oh yeah  
and uh you know we could go to both places without having to spend so much for   plane fare  
and so uh we find that if we're careful with our you know just everyday things like grocery shopping and and gas and entertainment things like that then uh somewhere in out in the wash it will come out that we have enough to get back there   you know  
uh_huh  
that's all right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
well whenever  
i don't know if this is part of the topic  
but whenever i find you know a dime or something on the ground i i'll probably pick it up  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have a special little jar that i keep all the money i found in  
you know just   count it up at the end of the year something  
but yeah  
uh_huh  
well for many many years uh my wife and i did have a budget  
uh we were both working at the time and so forth  
and uh that  
we had to do that until we finally got the house paid for and and other big bills taken care of  
uh we have a a budget  
but not as strict now as we used to because we don't have quite such a tight financial situation  
so it it's uh it's helpful  
i mean yes  
having a budget is very very important  
and that did get us so that you know the house is paid for and uh other major things are taken care of  
and now we can relax a little bit more because basically we don't really require as much on a daily or a monthly basis as we did before  
so we don't have to have quite as strict uh a budget as we did  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think i've i do that automatically myself  
i mean i unconsciously uh you know stay in a within a with a certain amount because i i have enough food already stored here   that i don't have to make any large purchase at any one time  
all i normally do now is pick up little things here and there if the salt goes out or we need sugar or something like that  
yeah  
we have two [freezers]  
and course we have a large garden here that we grow a lot of our own stuff  
and we freeze a lot of that  
so a lot of the vegetables are taken care of in our own   personal storage  
well we we keep a little note pad on a on a wall  

if anything is absolutely out make a note of it  
and then uh the next time i go to the store why i pick it up and fill it up  
so it's it's worked very well that way  
that way we you know if each of us finds something is missing uh we put it up  
uh the other person might not know about it  
that way we   keep up to date  
uh_huh  
well actually it's more interesting too if you've   got the time  
yeah  
sure  
well i think we unconsciously do the same thing  
excuse me my [throat's] not as clear today as it should be  
uh we are uh going to be traveling to europe with a choral  
we sing with a so called pennsylvania choral  
and we make a two weeks tour of of uh foreign countries  
and of course that costs money  
so we uh  
each of us watches the funds that we spend and make sure that that we gather together over a period a time enough money to to make this trip  
so that is another way of uh budgeting  
and i think we just sort of unconsciously do it  
we uh just live a normal life  
but we don't throw any money away particularly  
we save it for this trip which is uh always very very nice  
i do the same thing  
i have a whole pile of them saved that i have found by parking [meters]  
yeah  
yeah  
well let's face it  
the when we're talking budget it is important to to have a budget  
and uh i i keep track of mine on a more rough basis now by just watching the level of my checking account  
and i have a money market account also  
and uh i keep those levels up above a certain minimum  
and i'm always trying to  
okay  
so frank what uh type of uh budget do you or your family have  
right  
that's uh sounds like probably a tighter controlled budget than what i have  
i am single  
so   i guess i don't know if that's an excuse for not having a tight budget  
but i basically  
right  
i don't need to  
i am the only that i have to keep track of  
so it makes it a little bit easier  
uh and also i you know i try to save a certain amount each month as well  
and uh i try to try to have an idea of what my expenses are  
and i am pretty consistent from month to month  
and uh whenever uh i need to uh whenever that changes i am pretty well aware of it without actually having to maintain a budget for it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's  
i guess i kind of do a similar thing more uh medium or longer range  
i just have a maybe a targeted amount that i will save for  
like i am  
probably within a year i would like to buy a new car  
so i kind of have a an amount in my mind  
and i am making every effort to to put a little bit away and increase the amount that i need for a down payment or whatever  
right  
uh_huh  
huh   right  
right  
have you thought about uh leasing  
i see  
right  
but if you are rolling it over every three years   it might be advantageous to do that  
you know typically you if you purchase your own car you tend to make uh the best returns after you pay it off  
of course the longer you keep it beyond that point the more profitable it is to own it yourself  
that's right  
yeah  
mine's uh seven years old  
and i think last year was that was a rough year for it  
i had a number of expenses  
but uh i am hoping that most of them were just kind of  
uh you know the  
as you get to a certain number of miles you have to get everything replaced brakes shocks and all that  
so i just went through that whole set last year  
i hope that i only have a slow period before i do that again  
right  
right  
what line of work are you in  
well uh i don't know that we really have a budget  
i have a set amount that i that i save  
actually well actually there is a a way  
budget our money apparently  
the  
uh my wife uh has so much uh gets so much to do shopping with every couple of weeks  
and uh we allot each of us so much money per week for our personal stuff gas and things like that  
and besides that i uh you know i have a set amount that i save every month  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really don't need to  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well i found that uh you know things as i have gotten older  
i am in my fifties now  
but before we use to have to have to have a very strict budget  
i had four kids  
and uh you know we planned out how much we were going to spend for food and how much for for this and for that  
kind of anticipate how much things were going to be  
uh i guess one interesting aspect of the budgeting i do now is that i set aside uh i kind of fence off areas of my check book  
for instance there are certain things that i know come up uh every so often  
every six months i have to pay car insurance  
uh every six months i have to pay my taxes  
so   i take a set amount  
i've got a money market account that i do a lot of uh uh saving in  
and i also have got a checking account besides that  
but what i do on my money market account my taxes for instance which amount to an average of two hundred and twenty dollars a month i will just take two hundred and twenty out  
and i put it in parenthesis  
i take it out of the right line total   and put it in parenthesis in there and let it build up  
every month i add two hundred and twenty dollars to it  
then when the tax bill comes in i've got that much set aside  
and i guess that's a way of budgeting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh cars are definitely something that you have to figure into your budget not only for buying them but for keeping them on the road too  
uh you know we've got two cars  
my wife has a car  
and i like to drive pick up truck  
so we are on a schedule where i try every uh three or four years to to buy a new one  
and you know i am constantly making car payments  
but i figure that's got to be the story of my life anyway is making car payments  
so uh you know i get one paid for  
and uh actually i am saving up for another one besides  
so   it's you know it's kind of a never ending thing  
but   you try to you try to schedule those things so that uh you only you're not paying for two of at the same time   i guess is what i am saying  
well uh i have thought about it  
but leasing wouldn't  
you know i don't use it for my business  
my wife uses hers just for pleasure  
and i use mine just to go back and forth to work   which is only ten miles away  
so  
yeah  
i guess  
uh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
you're right  
uh i have uh been know to keep trucks or cars for oh ten or twelve years  
but i find that after about four years they kind of start going down hill  
and you got to put put stuff in them you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
those things can really upset your budget when they when they come in  
uh you know it's nice to have a little bit set aside for the for the unexpected shall we say   so that it doesn't uh kill you all in one month  
okay eric  
uh are you married  
and do you have a family  
okay  
and do you and your wife have a budget plan for your finances  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see uh  
well that's basically what we do  
uh about every every three months or so we [reevaluate] our budget  
and we sit down and just write from the largest bills down to the [smallest]  
and then we divvy them up between our four pay checks  
i work part time at night  
and he works and my husband works full times days  
and so we have four checks  
but that works out nice because we get paid every week  
and   so that does help  
that helps a lot  
and then uh we don't have a lot extra for extra spending  
so it's pretty well ear marked  
yeah  
yeah  
every penny is ear marked  
but uh it we have found that works the best  
and and so if we can just divide them up all the major bills up  
in fact we found it easier to divide the major bills up you know cut the house payment in half and cut the loan payment in half  
but and divide those up between all  
uh_huh  
and so we are not taking a huge sum out out of one  
and then the next pay check we're real short  
or  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it helps you to focus where your money goes  
and and i am sure you felt the the same frustration before you got on a budget  
but you're wondering my when you put down all the money that you do bring in  
and then you're saying my word where did all that money   go  
where does it go  
uh  
and also we have found that if we write down  
and we did this  
we are not real consistent with this  
but we did it for about a month  
and we wrote down everything that we bought when you know every pay check  
and so we could see where every penny went  
and it was really interesting to see just what you do spend  
and like i say we haven't been real consistent with it  
it's  
we should cause it does help  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
just stick to that  
uh_huh  
that is  
yeah  
that   that sounds like a really good idea  
and it really helpful  
uh have you developed a savings plan or i r a s or anything like that yet  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
that's a good feeling  
my husband just graduated from the university uh a year ago  
so finally   finally we are getting to that point too  
so are you still going to school  
or  
uh yes i am to uh both questions  
uh yeah  
we do  
we uh uh  
basically there's the you know the expenses that are fixed during the month   you know the ones that come every every month  
and we uh enter those into uh into a spread sheet  
and uh whatever is left uh after that we   you know we sit down and agree on kind of what what sort of range we are going to   generally going to shoot for  
so what do you do  
uh_huh  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
all allocated out  
yeah  
all the checks  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
we found that uh   it's definitely helped uh get a handle on kind of the unnecessary expenses  
we were before we started doing that kind of a thing we were uh spending uh money for things that you know  
we kind of tended to eat out a bit more   than we should have  
and it was easy to uh let things get out of hand  
we thought it uh thought it to be really helpful  
we have gotten some of our loans paid off really   because of this and stuff like that  
so  
yeah  
that's a lot of money  
but  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the other the other thing that that we've found that helps is you know we tend to fudge on the budget a little bit  
it's just to uh uh get up the money in advance and put it in uh uh so long as it wasn't you know [unreasonably] high but for things like food expenses   or whatever just put it in uh   in an envelope or whatever  
and that way it kind of forced us to uh stick to that amount   and then once that was gone well   if the entertainment amount was gone   for the month say oh it's gone  
so  
we we haven't  
we our our initial goal was just to retire debt uh completely retire debt for car payments and   credit card   uh credit card debt and all of that  
we are just at a point where where we could start thinking about it  
so  
yeah  
well i  
uh_huh  
a student  
yeah  
i am actually in the in the  
uh the question was kind of interesting to me because i was just trying to put together a uh long term financial plan and monthly budget  
the only thing i do now is uh put the data into quicken  
i don't know if you are familiar with that  
uh_huh  
um i've found it's the only reliable way to keep a check book balanced actually because what will happen is my wife will write a few checks and then well uh uh not bother to total it  
and then it comes in to doing all the [arithmetic]  
so it really helps with that  
uh_huh  
well actually we haven't had to uh until just recently  
i guess we've got a a daughter who is eighteen months and another one on the way  
so   we needed to start doing more of that just for uh you know saving for college and things like that  
we tried a way try to put away two and four thousand a year just for that  
uh_huh  
um  
um sounds good  
yeah  
i guess we're we're just at the point uh  
my wife worked until we had a family  
and then you know now we're just going on the one income  
so it's   a lot more interesting trying to uh  
find some extra payroll deductions is probably the only way we will be able to uh do it  
you know kind of enforce the savings  
but uh it will be interesting to see  
um  
um  
that sounds good  
but uh uh i was just curious what uh part of the country  
oh okay  
uh cincinnati actually  
i was kind of wondering if they would be collecting people with uh the western accents or something like that  
i don't know how many people are uh getting involved in this  
but   uh well that's interesting  
i'm uh uh actually uh i was kind of interested if you found out about the study by uh reading telecom digest  
or was there another  
oh okay  
yeah  
that is how i got it as well  
but uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it will be interesting to see what   it would be interesting to see how the data base  
so well i guess we're talking about the experiment  
uh probably need to try to get back on the topic  
but uh it's hard to talk about finances without without getting to uh dollar figures i guess   you know  
we could talk about some of the long range goals  
and  
uh well i think either my wife or i would like to pursue advanced degrees at some point  
uh i guess we will have to factor that in if we are not working for employers that happen to fund that  
it seems like every year my employer just gives back you know a little bit your tuition reimbursement  
i mean they use to reimburse one hundred percent  
and now it's uh now it's reimbursement depending on the grade you get in class  
and uh it's a real shame from what we had before uh because we're  
yeah  
i have some friends of mine who use quicken  
and uh i've considered using it once myself  
but i decided that the amount of information that would have to go in would be a lot of time keeping that up to date  
so i i kind of gave up on the idea of using quicken at least for now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's similar problems  
but uh we just have the one check book  
and we try to keep it up to date as much as possible  
and occasionally we will get behind like you say  
but uh it doesn't really seem to be too too tight if we just remember to keep everything up up to date and balanced  
well how to you handle that the long range or medium range planning on finances  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's pretty good if you can do that  
i know  
i have a daughter who's ten  
and we haven't really put much away for her college up to this point  
but uh we're to the point now where our financial income is enough that we can consider putting some away   for college  
so we are going to be starting a regular payroll deduction   in the fall  
and then the money that i will be making this summer we'll be putting away for the college fund  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well our situation is just a little bit kind of the opposite of that cause my wife was not working for some time and was going to school and just recently uh took on a full time job well almost full time  
so it's only recently that we've had the money where we could start putting away large sums of it for uh long range goals like college and sickness and   travel and that kind of thing  
oh [stockton]  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh a [colleague] of mine at uh work got some information over uh the computer network called [internet]  
and he just [forwarded] that on to me  
and uh it sounded like it would be an interesting project   to participate in  
so i   sent back mail  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well what other long range goals do you have besides college  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
anyway uh  
what do i do  
uh at the moment it's under chaos  
uh right now i'm just uh  
i i don't really have a budget per se  
i'm i uh it's called living within your means   you know which means at the moment paying off the visa bill and keeping everything else under control and hoping the car doesn't collapse  
uh but uh no  
i don't really have a budget at the moment  
uh but i have uh i have a rough feel for how much money i can afford to spend each month  
and then i don't usually don't exceed that unless i unless the visa bill gets out of hand for one reason or another like if i have car expenses  
and then that then it goes through the moon  
so  
yeah  
so uh what do  
so you can afford to get a house  
yeah  
yeah  
so what do you and your husband do  
are you really  
um  
no kidding  
i see  
overseas where would you be going  
really  
really  
how long would you be there  
with with what church  
oh yes  
yes  
i uh i know who they are  
they uh they have an office uh in in costa mesa as i recall  
there there was uh you know there was a fairly large building that that was well that belongs to them  
so uh are you uh are you uh active in translation  
uh_huh  
true  
true enough  
so uh what what uh what languages do you speak besides english of course  
uh_huh  
in france  
uh  
must have been terrible  
the uh  
was it henry [macon] said that the the uh language was like a man slowly bleeding to death  
so they [hemorrhaged] him to death without new [infusions] that will eventually die  
and i it just amazes me that the french don't recognize that  
free style english is just  
takes on  
how about you  
what do you do with your budget  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
that's sort of a problem  
we're trying we're trying to uh  
so far we are in the clear credit wise  
but uh the other side of it is  
so not much on that side of it to add to it  
we're trying to think of how to put away some savings and stuff like that  
but  
yeah  
we'd like to do that some day  
we have this dream  
but we don't know how long it will be a dream  
we we're kind of real we're real happy that we don't have any debt  
but we're at the same time we're real scared about [incurring] it in this uh economy right now  
so   we're stepping real careful and trying to see what's the best way to save what the little bit that we do get you know on top of expenses every month  
we're missionaries actually  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and uh it will be easier once we get overseas cause we have uh like uh uh support quota  
and it's cheaper to live overseas than it is to live here  
and it doesn't get switched very easily once you come home  
so  
africa  
[nigeria]  
yeah  
about four years  
we're career  
so we we go over [seas] for four years  
and then we come back for a year  
we go over four  
we come back for a year  
uh we're with wycliff bible translators  
so  
yeah  
they could very well  
and  
uh we will be  
i was over over four years doing language [surveying] which is the first step  
you're kind of like the scout that goes ahead of the team and [assesses] the need  
and uh came home and got married  
and we will go back as translators cause we want to raise a family  
and it is easier to raise a family as translators  
well i always wanted to do translation  
but as long as i was single and foot loose so to speak it's easier  
you know they really need [surveyors] cause you could you're free to travel anywhere  
you don't have kids hanging around you and stuff  
well i have a [smattering] of about ten different ones  
but there's  
i'm not bilingual in any of them because i kept switching from one area to the other you know  
since i did   you know complete a survey in one area i'd switch to the other  
so i know the [greetings] in about ten   and how to do market stuff  
but in about uh about five i guess i can do better in it  
and my french is pretty good  
but it's uh french  
so uh i'm terrified to speak in uh   in france  
yeah  
because they're real [snobby] about their language  
and french is street french  
and i just picked it up off the street  
and i knew what i was i knew what i was communicating  
but i didn't know what i was saying  
i never sat there and got a direct translation  
and said something here when i came home and french to somebody  
and he [paled] and said uh i'm not going to tell you what you said  
so since then i have [refrained] from speaking any french  
so  
in  
i don't know what i said to him  
but uh i didn't ask him either  
okay  
i thought it was supposed to give a recording  
but anyway uh well i do take care of pretty much all of the stuff for for my wife and for me  
and   uh i embarrassed to say it's pretty trivial  
all we all i do is uh keep a list of things like debts that are outstanding and every two or three months update that and every once in a while make a list of what we spent that month  
but i doubt i do it more than three times a year  
and  
no  
i work with them all day  
i'm in computer science  
yet i   i do everything on paper  
uh i don't even use a calculator for the stuff i'm doing because it's all pretty round numbers  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that  
uh_huh  
yes  
it's pretty straightforward  
it's  
i can't imagine having to go into real complicated stuff and making   you know fancy budgets  
it seems like if you're getting to that level you're not in real good control  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
actually i mean i like using credit cards for everything but just paying off the bills   because that way it's a record of everything  
and i don't have to worry about keeping records of anything else   because they come in at   the end of the month  
uh  
yeah i guess if that's   if that's a weakness that's a good thing to do  
uh_huh  
sure  
do you find trouble keeping the records for taxes and all that  
or  
uh_huh  
well that's good to know  
yeah  
i don't understand the idea of paying somebody to to do it  
it seems like it's absurd the number of people who end up having to pay somebody to do it  
i  
yeah  
just the form  
yeah  
yeah  
and a lot of them  
yeah  
i   i don't trust myself with using a calculator or computer too much stuff like that because i want to make sure that that i i keep on top of the numbers and understand what's going on  
i know too many people who use a calculator  
if they make a mistake they find out two months later because they weren't paying attention  
and   and it seem  
yeah  
we have the same thing  
yeah  
sure  

okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do   you use a computer  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
mine is really simple because i got all our bills paid off when uh he was a [marine]  
he went to saudi arabia  
and while he was gone i got all of our bills paid off  
so really the only bills i have is rent utilities insurance   you know  
so they come in  
i pay them  
and that's it you know  
that's about   the extent of it you know  
i don't really have this major budget or anything  
i just really i'm real [thrifty]  
i take care of you know two children and me and   uh just real careful with the money you know what little we have  
so that's what i do  
no  
uh uh  
you know i mean i i i've never liked credit cards   and a lot of debt you know  
you   buy something on credit  
and you pay twice as much for it when you get done   you know  
so  
uh_huh  
i don't have   too many   i don't have too many weaknesses  
but i found out a credit card was one of them   you know  
it's so much easy easier you know if something's on sale if you're a woman and you're a sale person  
it's like oh it's on sale  
let's go grab it you know  
so uh and if you don't have the money then use a credit card  
so i got rid of them credit cards   you know  
yeah  
that was my weakness  
it wasn't bad  
i mean i didn't have like thousands of dollars you know and like that  
just i just   learned that that wasn't for me you know  
so but i self employed you know  
i have my own little cleaning business type thing  
so uh i keep  
no  
it's not hard  
i just keep it in a notebook and write down what i've made and uh you know what it's going to have to go for that month  
and   you know it's not that not that hard not at all  
so i always do my own income tax you know  
do you  
huh  

all you got to do is read a book i mean   read the little book they send you   fill in the [blanks]   and go  
i mean it seems absurd that people will pay you know some bucks just to get   someone to  
it's dumb  
i guess if you had some really complicated stuff  
but i don't  
so i don't mess with it  
but i don't use a calculator either you know  
i don't i don't have that that many you know things to add up  
so  
oh yeah  
and we have a  
i bank at n c n b here  
and they have a number that you can call in  
and i always call in and like once every other week or so  
and i will uh check off what checks have cleared  
and  
do you do that  
you do too  
and i always check them off and you know check my balance and my book and you know because i always want to know exactly what i have you know  
i do that real often  
i do that  
so anyway  
wendy i guess we get to talk about budgets tonight or lack of budgets if uh if that may be the case   and any kind of long term financial planning or anything like that uh  
let me ask you the question  
do you have a uh budget or a monthly budget or a long term budget that you stick to  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
i see  
well good  
i'm kind of in a different situation  
but i i i went through that too when i was in school  
but uh i was i was working to get through college and and uh trying to make it through that  
but uh   i'm married and have uh a a couple of children  
and   we have to uh pretty much stick to a budget  
i'm on a salary  
so i don't get any overtime or anything like that  
but   we have a fixed income  
and we have to make sure that uh every dollar we have will is spent accordingly  
and uh what we try and do to to stick to our monthly budget is   we pretty much have you know the house payment  
we have the insurance premiums uh utilities and so forth  
and we do sit down at the beginning of every month or the end of every month and write down how much we know we're going to spend and set that money aside  
and we also try and set aside money for savings set aside money for the the kids' education   college education the future and uh set aside money for bonds  
and and we also set aside an emergency fund  
because   we've uh we've been married for about ten years  
and we find out that you know no matter what kind of budget you stick on there's always going to be an unexpected car repair or something   happen with the house that you have to have money for and uh not enough to go and to take a loan out but uh you have to have money for  
and uh then we have you know  
whatever's left over is disposable disposable yeah discretionary income   that we use for the rest of the month  
so and it's worked out very well  
it's uh it's helped us so that we haven't been you know too long on the month and too short on the money and   uh try and stick with that  
and nice thing about it i my wife is is excellent in that we both work together  
we both have a budget  
and we stick to it  
and there's no surprises in that  
well actually i have four kids  
so  
yeah  
i said a couple of kids  
i i guess i should have specified  
i have four   four little boys  
yeah  
you bet  
you bet  
all right  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh  
well good  
good  
uh_huh  
yes  
well what year are you in in college  
you're a sophomore  
so you have a few more years  
uh_huh  
well good for you  
good for you  
yeah  
i imagine it uh is a little difficult to stick with a budget during that during school and so it forth  
yes  
well great  
great  
and sometimes that's a little hard with books and music and and sheet music and stuff you've got to work on too  
lab fees and all  
oh yes  
oh yes  
well you're not a starving artist yet are you  
good  
well good  
there's enough of those in the world huh  
good  
good  
i'm glad to hear that wendy  

who's who's not very well educated  
oh yes  
yes  
that's true  
that's true  
i found that out  
so that's why i'm planning and and preparing for the uh education of my children also   try and set that money aside  
i majored in business administration  
yeah  
but uh once again  
right  
right now i'm in college  
and i'm on work study  
and so my budget comes from my dad's help  
he helps me out a lot  
and i get paid monthly  
so that's kind of hard to have a budget  
my mother uh doesn't get paid much money  
so her budget is uh just uh planning for i r a's  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that sounds good  
right  
right  
well that's good  
well good  
with two kids that could be hard  
four  
oh my goodness  
four boys  
oh my  
it's just me and my sister  
and my parents divorced three years ago  
and my sister had gotten through college  
but i was still in high school  
and my mother paid for a lot of my sister's college while my parents were together  
and then uh before the divorce she had saved for my college  
but uh when we had the divorce she just didn't get much money out of it and had to spend it all on getting another house  
so now my dad's paying for all of my college of  
and financial aid   and scholarships  
i'm a music major  
so i have [auditions] coming up  
i'm a sophomore  
right  
right  
i'll i'll probably have about two two and a half years left  
oh it sure is  
i i know how much my dad is going to give me every two weeks  
and i and i don't spend over that  
oh sure  
there's there's always music   books to buy  
oh no  
no  
no  
i don't plan on being a starving artist  
that's why i'm in college  
right  
that's usually because they're not real educated  
they can't afford to have a really good job  
the starving ones  
there's enough out there that if you have if you're educated enough then you can make money  
right  
what did you major in  
well good  
you know plenty about planning a a budget  
huh  
do you all have a budget  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's uh  
yeah  
i usually uh  
my wife handles a lot of the day to day finances  
and of course we're like like a lot of people  
we just scramble through month to month you know  
and uh  
uh we have a two income   uh family  
she also works  
and uh but she she enjoys it  
and she's good at it  
uh if it's if it's  
i am kind of uh uh i'm pretty bad about [procrastinating]  
and one of these days i am going to do something about that i believe  
you know how that goes  
but uh uh if she she handles it pretty well  
she uh   she writes all the checks you know once a month  
uh sort of on a peripheral  
she's uh uh an annuity administrator  
and so she uh she works for an insurance company  
but but she enjoys it  
she likes keeping track of all that stuff  
and uh  
yeah  
sort of  
and we you know we've experimented with with uh budgets you know from time to time uh  
but if you know  
you have to keep up with them  
so a lot of times we just uh just kind of play it by ear  
we try to keep our uh our retirement and our savings kind of automated  
so we never see that money  
just like taken directly  
yeah  
and that that's kind of handy  
yeah  
because if you don't see it you don't miss it  
you don't spend it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it   sounds like you all pretty much do it the same we do  
just kind of   play it by ear but keep the the deductions   you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh about five years  
yeah  
uh i've got one little girl  
she's like uh nineteen months  
so uh she's she's not uh  
not not really  
not too bad uh  
yeah  
yeah  
when  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'm uh i i work for i'm an electronic technician  
i work at a for a university uh georgia tech uh research  
and uh  
so i just uh  
oh well  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
thanks  
well uh yeah  
we we do  
um we've been married for twenty three years  
and we have uh three teenage daughters  
and you know they're very expensive  
so uh uh we yeah we have somewhat of uh a system  
uh it's it's kind of uh you know it's kind of hard to explain  
we've actually gone uh just recently to you know having having two checking accounts  
we always had just one  
and now we are having two  
uh it's kind of hard to talk about this because to me it's very personal  
so i have to be  
that's that's kind of the way i feel about it  
yes  
do you have a two income family or one income  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
so your wife  
yes  
it  
that  
what  
her is her career uh related to to finance or accounting  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so that's sort of related to her field a little bit  
yeah  
yeah  
it's just taking it out right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
we do the same thing  
yeah  
if  
you have something to take it out  
that's exactly what we've always done  
and we've had uh they've always had uh where they match your funds you know  
sometimes   if you if you save so much then they will match it  
uh that you know we've done that too  
but my husband works for an insurance company  
and he he has now for about oh gosh how long has it been ten years i guess  
but he was with another company before that  
but we have we have  
i i work also  
but i only have a part time job  
and i get paid very little  
but uh you know i try to use that money for food  
jim gives me a certain amount money  
you know we just transfer it   into my account  
and then i use that for food household expenses  
and then i add my own check to that  
and then with that i try and handle you know some of the clothes that the girls need   and things like that  
but the expenses that we need and have around the house  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
we  
well jim has jim has a budget  
i mean he works it out every month   and breaks it all down  
uh you know i am given so much money a month  
so i am suppose to kind of get the food out of that  
so i try not to you know  
we don't you know i don't ask for more  
i mean i just try and make it on that  
because i think when you go to the grocery store you can just you can go crazy   with all the choices that you have  
and uh you can you can really waste a lot of money that way  
so uh well how long have you been married  
oh yeah  
so you're just really getting started  
so do you have a family too  
oh yeah  
yeah  
she hasn't effected your budget yet really  
no  
not like she will later on  
you will see that   all of a sudden you're paying you're trying to decide whether you are going to do you know soccer and piano and all these choices that they have of activities to do  
and then you really have to start saying okay now what can we afford   you know  
what can we do here  
and then you have to really sit down and plan some more  
and uh but i think when we were back at your age we didn't have much of a budget  
and then as the girls got older i think we we did more and more of that  
you know more budgeting as as they got older  
uh but uh but what do you do  
do you  
oh okay  
oh  
well good  
good  
well we just have you know we have a good friend that's about to move to atlanta  
i guess we're not suppose to talk about those things  
i'd better get back to the subject  
but uh budgeting  
i found you know i feel a lot better  
you know we use to work out of one check book  
and it would be very hard for me because i wouldn't have i wouldn't have any idea how much money i was spending in one month  
now i have know exactly what i'm spending  
and it's so much easier  
kathy  
so what is your uh family  
what do you usually do as far as budgeting  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my husband is a finance major also  
and uh we kind of have the same plan  
uh we have one credit card  
and every month we put uh you know the same amount in for retirement  
uh and we budget we're our our new thing to our budget is we just had a baby  
so we're   budgeting uh each month uh an allowance for his education   starting now  
so that's in our budget every month now  
that's the newest addition  
but we too do the same thing as far as uh  
we have a set amount  
we take oh one big vacation a year and then maybe you know three small vacations  
so we you know an   exact amount that we spend on that each year  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
like you have a separate account for that then  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
does your husband deal in uh stocks and bonds and mutual funds and all that kind of stuff  
does he invest in that and   for long term  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
because you're you've you've sat down with a piece of paper and said well let's see what are we going to  
so what goes into that that particular thing  
it's vacations christmas  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
well you know uh what do you do as far as  
i i take it  
do you uh run the family budget as far as uh groceries and that sort of thing  
uh_huh  
and how what's that  
uh_huh  
do you have a set amount that that you spend each month  
or   or how do you work that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i do too  
i stay home also  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
what what  
as far as like big things like something comes up and you have to buy a t v or a big item like for the house  
how  
do you have like a household  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you  
we have a very detailed budget because my husband is a finance major  
and we have you know we have money that we take out each month that we uh you know for food and and for for gas and things like that  
and then we put aside so much money each month for birthdays and for christmas and for uh other things  
then we take our major purchases we want to make during that year  
and we budget them into what we call our our needs and wants list  
and so uh the things that like a vacation  
we have a vacation fund  
we have a fund for the things we need and then a for the things that we want  
and uh and we're continually putting into those you know each month how much we're going to need  
and then we know the month that we're going to have enough to get that particular item  
so we very rarely buy anything on credit  
everything we buy is paid for  
right  
right  
right  
uh we have found that we spend less money if we pull out the money uh   instead of just writing checks for things  
if we actually pull it out and keep it in a safe here  
and we actually pull out the money each month that we want to put in for birthdays that we want to put in for uh the vacation that we put in for christmas  
well a lot of that uh i don't know how safe it is  
i guess uh we keep it all in a safe here at the house  
and so it's actually pulled out  
then we keep our  
we have a savings account for the kids' education  
that money goes into there  
each of our  
we have three children  
so they each have their own account  
that money is put into each month  
he does somewhat  
yeah  
he does somewhat  
uh we have an investment plan  
yeah  
i guess he does  
but uh we have really found  
this is the first year we've done it this way  
and we are really saving a lot of money  
christmas birthdays uh car maintenance dental medical  
we just averaged out how much last year we used per month on medical and how much   we used on dental  
and uh and so now when we have to come up with that deductible that our insurance doesn't cover   rather than wondering where it's going to come from  
we have it you know  
and when when we see something on sale uh instead of just looking in our checking account and saying well we've got enough and getting it and then when something comes up you know kind of [scrimping] to pay for a medical bill   everything's taken care of  
and we're finding that we even have more money than we thought  
yeah  
i do  
uh_huh  
all the money  
all the money is turned over to me  
yes  
i have a set amount  
it's very generous  
and i usually have extra  
and so then that can go uh you know either back into our checking account  
or i can just carry it over  
uh you know there are certain months of the year that you'll spend more on food than other months and   certain times when that will be left over  
but that's completely up to me how i do that  
and   then uh because i don't work i stay home  
and so it's kind of my money  
and i also get my own money to do what i want to go to lunches you know and do that kind of thing  
we have a clothing uh envelope for each of the kids and for myself and my husband that we put how much we figure we need each month on clothing  
it really works out great  
we're finding that we have a lot more money to spend on things like that  
and we're  
yes  
we have a household budget  
like we're going to need to buy a bed for my daughter that's coming out of her crib this year  
and also we need a new bed  
and so we've got both of those budgeted  
and we put a certain amount in each month  
and we know which month we'll enough saved to go buy those  
and if we find one on sale before then then we can just take that and put it towards  
your turn  
well i have to say i really don't have a budget  
both my wife and i uh grew up in uh families of rather modest means  
and uh our family income at this point is comfortable upper middle class i guess you might say  
and uh we're both so uh frugal that uh we really don't need a budget you know  
we just sort of invest the money and go on vacations and always never seem to have any money problems which i guess is a comfortable thing  
well we stay within our means  
but we   don't do it uh by conscious effort  
it just sort of happens automatically  
although we just moved to california  
and uh the cost of living here in california is uh i would say rather [pathological]  
uh housing prices are you know like from four to ten times more expensive than uh uh they were where i came from in uh dallas  
yeah  
so uh   uh that presents a a real shock  
actually our standard of living has gone down somewhat since we've moved to california  
but  
yeah  
it's god's country  
uh and one way you know that is that only god can afford it  
uh so budget is not a problem for us  
uh at least it hasn't been  
it may may be at this point  
but uh up until this point it really hasn't been  
when i uh was in uh undergraduate school a long long time ago i uh noted that the monthly salary starting average monthly salary salary for engineers that you know in my discipline was like oh six hundred ten dollars a month or something like that  
and uh i noted at that point that i was you know if that's what my salary was that i drew then i would be making almost twice as much as my father made during his best year ever  
so i stopped worrying about money  
and it  
never have worried about money since then  
sometimes uh it's a bit of a a problem you know because i guess i don't really manage my money the way i should  
but uh i suppose i've lost money on not taking good advantage of of uh investments  
but  
uh_huh  
well i guess we're both lucky in that regard then  
how big is your family  
i see  
so how  
you once you get ten children though you may have  
oh all right  
i have two kids  
uh one   nine and one thirteen  
and they are beginning to be a budget problem but uh have not been really up until this up to this point  
i give them a i give them an allowance  
and they uh  
i basically give my son ten dollars a week  
and i put half of it in the bank  
and i give give him the other half in cold cash  
and uh he has a teller card so he can uh do what he do what he wishes with the money that i put in the bank  
but at least it isn't you know burning a hole in his pocket  
if he wants to use it he has to go get it  
and that usually  
oh i i start  
okay  
well uh we keep a budget to an extent  
uh and really we were really forced into keeping a budget because i'm i'm paid once a month which sort of sort of forces some uh uh restrictions  
and you need to make sure all your bills are paid  
uh about yourself  
yeah  
well i guess that really is sort of uh keeping a budget  
you know you stay within your uh   within your means  
yeah  
yes  
oh you moved from dallas to san francisco  
that is a hugh difference  
yeah  
but you have good sour dough  
and it's a beautiful place to live  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that that's a system too  
well then again you know you said you you are able to take trips  
and you do obviously have enough to live on  
so i guess you're indirectly budgeting   uh just bye bye the fact that you said you're both very frugal uh in spending the money  
so i mean that's that's a form of budgeting i would think  
it's it's kind of a strange topic to to try to for two people who don't really have a budget to talk about budgeting and how they manage their money  
yeah  
uh well we're we have one on the way  
uh my wife  
and then we're we're having one on the way in uh in uh september  
no  
i think it's just going to be one  
how about yourself  
oh  
do they budget at all  
i mean do you have them on an allowance  
yeah  
yeah  
uh why don't you go ahead first  
sure  
uh_huh  
sure  
that's kind of uh  
to what we're doing is budgeting you know  
month to month is uh kind of taking into consideration what the bills are and what's extra  
so that's kind of how we do it uh from month to month depending on what insurance is due or whatever  
uh long term that's a little bit easier for us because uh with our jobs we can take out extra money towards savings four oh one k plans   uh that kind of you know retirement plans that kind of stuff  
so we can kind of put aside some money that actually is better for us not to see   versus when it's on the paycheck  
and you have to try and take out some of that money  
you always find something a little extra that you'd like to get that month  
so uh long term probably is a little bit better than short term simply because uh it's automatically taken out  
so uh that works out much better for us  
so that's kind of how we do it anyway  
but  
exactly  
and if you can't touch it you can't spend it either  
so that kind of works out where you get into uh some plans that you know you touch it you're going to get a penalty that kind of thing  
so it leads you to kind of say well i'm not going to take it out  
i'm going to keep it and uh keep it in there and let it grow so that someway maybe for retirement you're going to have that money   left  
let's hope anyway  
so   you'll have that  
so that's kind of how we do it  
but ours is more like month to month too uh  
short term is to get things going  
so anyway other than that uh is kind of how we do it  
so i don't   know if we're our time is up or what  
they'll let us know  
uh_huh  
oh definitely  
definitely  
and uh it grows uh  
it it seems like at first you're not going to see a big return  
but as the years go on if you're with the company for any length of time then it gets much better  
and uh   so you know you just have to kind of look at it that way  
and there's other savings plans or other things that you can do  
automatic you know deposit from checks to where you don't see it  
and uh you know exactly whatever is in our checking account is basically just about what gets spent  
it's put into our savings account  
and we don't see it  
then it works out to where you know you don't look at it  
you just look at the checking account   and say this is what we have for money  
and that's it  
so  
yeah  
it it's easy because you do spend it  
that's for sure  
like i said you know you kind of look at it uh  
you better have some other way of uh savings  
otherwise uh checking accounts aren't the best for you know long term type of planning  
so and you don't get a good return on it anyway  
so other  
exactly  
right now  
yeah  
it's a bad time you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
exactly  
you know we have some in laws uh that uh had theirs in some money market [certificates] and other things and uh kind of took them out of that because they got so low  
but uh  
yeah  
it's it drops  
so your better bet is to uh try to get in with something with your corporation if they have some kind of uh savings plans or something like that to where they kind of match the percentage or whatever so or some kind of profit sharing  
so  
sure  
yeah  
that's great  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
exactly  
okay  
uh short term uh it works out pretty well because we have just enough to cover expenses with a little left over  
so budgeting in the short term isn't too much of an issue because there's not that much uh   extra to go around  
uh long term is something we're starting to think about because our older child will be ready for college in about uh gee  
she's eight now  
so i guess about ten years  
good heavens  
so we're we're starting to think about long term considerations college and retirement  
but with not a whole lot of discretionary money it's kind of hard to figure out how to do it  
how about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and the old uh if you can't see it then you can't spend it uh idea  
right  
uh_huh  
uh they'll uh  
yeah  
exactly  
we we actually do have some money in a four oh one k  
i just   wish i could afford to uh put more away each week because i agree that it's a an excellent way  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
checking [account's] a very dangerous place for money to be i'm convinced  
yeah  
i guess there other than things like the stock market or mutual funds there's really not much of a return on anything these days  
yeah  
the interest is so low  
i mean it it's nice for people buying homes  
but   for older people who have money   in c d or whatever it must be awfully hard to see rates go down to three and a half percent or whatever  
yeah  
i'm i'm with a small company now  
and i hope that uh if we're successful that they'll go in for some sort of profit sharing  
that'll be very nice  
well i guess we're kind of running out of steam on this topic here  
okay  
yes  
yeah  
well i i i feel like uh i am from mars  
i mean i'm fifty years old  
and uh i've been divorced for um eighteen years  
but i've two kids and all  
but i uh i i've never had a budget  
and i don't uh do any planning  
and i don't know  
i don't uh uh i don't have a long term financial plan  
i don't try to control my expenses  
but i'm i'm glad you're a stranger  
but really i'm i happy i i well i'm curious how other people live  
uh so maybe we should start with you  
what do you do  
really  
oh  
maybe they're going to arrest us both  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh the uh  
i had a part time job around oh gosh fifteen years ago seventy six  
and uh uh this was a sort of a career shift at the time  
and so i was willing to take a half time job to do that  
and i actually did  
my bank account would uh  
i'd i i kept bouncing checks just at the end of the month  
but i i had [miscalculated]  
i well i didn't keep a balance  
it's one of the problems  
i never had to in the past  
i always kept plenty of money in my checking account  
but when you're only earning half the salary even though i wasn't spending much money i sometimes i sometimes would just  
things would get to tight  
uh and sometimes what i would do is keep a piece of paper in my wallet  
and every time i uh i spent money i mean cash mostly i would uh write it down   so i could see at the end of a month how much i spent on food so i could do better planning  
but i would forget to write the things down  
and it that i i don't know if i ever went as far as three months or not in keeping that kind of data  
i certainly haven't done that in sixteen years or whatever  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the uh  
i i have to say that  
let's see at this point on i don't run out of money  
uh and it uh  
and i don't i mean  
someday if i were to get [remarried] i might want to buy a house which requires lots of money which i don't have  
and i i i think my strategy if if i may is to is to not spend money  
i mean i don't have expensive tastes  
i don't go out  
i mean i buy a car  
well the last car i got rid of i'd had  
it was nineteen years old  
people were embarrassed for me  
i mean it was it was a good car  
and  
oh it was great  
my my mechanics loved it because it was an old it was a sixty five buick  
and it just wouldn't stop  
uh and it  
i i just didn't feel the need for a new car  
it isn't like i couldn't afford one  
uh and now i mean i i don't uh  
i tend to eat expensive food  
i mean i don't mind buying a good steak  
but for me i only do that every week or without even   i mean maybe once a month  
i mean you buy a a [tenderloin] steak it costs outrageous like twelve dollars a pound  
you buy a a less than half a pound so it's six or seven dollars  
to me i realize if you have eight kids you're not going to run out and do that  
but but i'm just i'm just saying as a single person that's that's a drop in the bucket  
and so if you're extravagant on how you buy food it doesn't add up if you're buying i mean if you're not going to super expensive restaurants which i don't care to go to  
so so that's i think one of the reasons i don't need to budget is that i don't have i don't i don't have to hold myself back from buying that expensive thing because i can't afford it because i'm not interested in that expensive thing  
how are you  
you want to go ahead and start talking about whether you budget  
that sounds kind of like me  
about the same thing  
yeah  
i'm even in worse shape because i have eight children  
and uh we live from hand to mouth  
we hope that there's enough money at the end of the month to pay for the bills and if there's not then we due for the next month  
a couple of times we've tried some things  
and they worked  
but i'm not disciplined enough to keep doing it  
the best program we ever had is at the beginning of the month we took and uh took my check and divided it out into envelopes   and then paid for the expenses out of that envelope  
and when the envelope was empty then you didn't have any more money to spend in that area  
and that worked out real well cause we didn't have to keep writing down what we'd spent  
it was just that when that was empty you knew you were out of money  
and we did that pretty successfully for about three months  
and then we started borrowing from one envelope to put it in the other envelope  
and in about two months we were back to doing the same thing we always do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i even find now like with the automatic [tellers] i'll go take money out of that  
and then i forget to take that out of my checking account  
and uh  
so i i i leave a little bit of a slush fund in my checking account and i figure that so the balance showing in the checking account is always somewhat different that what's really there  
and i figure that gives me room for the mistakes i make  
yeah  
but it was still running  
uh_huh  
yeah  
not very often  
that's right  
a lot of  
okay  
do you have a budget that you go on  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well my bills i usually know approximately how much they're going to be  
each month they are more or less just about the same you know  
uh very seldom are they any different  
and then uh like for groceries and everything we try to put like two hundred and fifty dollars in a little can in the kitchen  
and then that's what we use to buy the groceries with  
and then we put our receipts in there you know  
and usually that's enough  
and uh but i don't have any you know small children to have anything extra come up you know like uh running to the doctor or something like that with them  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
in fact i did have to take my dog to the vet the other day  
yeah  
that it's worse than having a kid huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh i'm not working right now  
i worked for p i e  
and then uh they went bankrupt  
so   i just went ahead and took my early pension  
but i only get that once a month  
yeah  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
so you know i really have to try to budget that i don't go over that amount you know each month  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
and  
oh yeah  
right now it's terrible isn't it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i also like long term christmas club you know  
i used to belong to a christmas club  
last year i didn't  
then so then naturally christmas comes along  
and that puts you behind too you know  
so this year now i have them taking out fifty dollars a month out of my   checking account for my christmas club  
so i figure you know that's going to help some  
yeah  
right you know  
right  
right  
and i'm  
oh that's good  
i'm taking like uh sewing lessons to try to learn how to sew better than what i can  
so i won't have to go out and buy the ready made clothes anymore  
i know  
i even bought myself a surgery you know  
and i just love it  
i haven't learned everything to do on it yet  
but i figure that will help me save   you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well see some people are some aren't  
because   i have some sisters i have three sisters  
and none of those are really interested in sewing  
yeah  
and then i can also you know do some crafts and sell those at garage sales  
so which i've been doing  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh  
well have you called  
oh  
oh it is  
oh well that that's nice you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i guess that's about all i can talk to about budgets  
when i was working i uh bought a bond a month out of my you know  
they automatically took it out of my   out of my payroll  
all [rightie]  
yeah  
i sure do  
uh i have it's pretty much a [ledger] sheet  
and i just write down all my bills how much i'm going to have to pay  
and i do it per paycheck for me   which is every other week  
uh i mean i include everything from groceries to insurance to car payments to credit card payments you know everything  
and it tends to work out pretty well that way  
i can anticipate you know a little better  
i usually try to [guesstimate]  
and then when the bill actually comes in i go ahead and fill in the actual amount  
that way i know how much pocket change i'm going to have left at the end of the month   or at the end of the paycheck anyway  
so that works okay for me  
right  
uh_huh  
same here  
uh_huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
right  
luckily i don't either  
i mean you know   maybe my cat would get sick  
but i mean usually that's not so much that it would throw me off  
but you so you know what i'm saying  
yeah  
i  
sometimes it can be  
sometimes it can be  
i guess the worst thing i've ever had come out is like car maintenance kinds of things  
but i do try to build in a little extra money each month to to be able to do that type of thing  
so  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh that's tough  
my roommate only gets paid once a month  
and   that last week's pretty lean generally speaking  
so  
right  
i for for years got paid once a month  
and and in ways i liked it because i could go ahead and pay all my bills at once  
there's always one or two stragglers that usually they were  
for me it worked out that they were the smaller ones  
but i would pay all of them at one sitting  
and i would know okay you can go spend this much on groceries now and you get this much a week and that is it  
and and it worked okay for me  
i don't know  
right now i i'm in the mode of trying to dig out of debt i think as everybody is  
and so  
it's yeah it's really bad  
but uh it's going pretty well  
and i've got a real good plan [mapped] out here  
so  
uh_huh  
oh that's  
yeah  
that'll cover your gifts come christmas time  
that'll  
yeah  
that'll be good  
yeah  
most people are spending three or four months you know at least digging out after christmas  
so  
yeah  
i i was pretty fortunate this christmas  
i didn't get in debt  
so  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
it's so rare  
you hear anybody doing that any longer  
yeah  
my uh roommate does sew some  
and and uh she hasn't sewed anything in a long time  
but i i'm sure that she could pick it up again  
my mother always sewed  
she tried to teach me when i was young but   not interested  
yeah  
yeah  
but that's a real good way to save money   though by doing that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's a good way to to make a little extra money  
well this is another way that i'm making a little extra money  
so that was you know nice that i [tripped] over this opportunity  
and you're actually my first call  
yeah  
i had not uh done  
i i guess today   today's my first day that i could   even do it  
yeah  
you beat me to the punch here  
i i was about to call to get to see if i could get on with somebody  
so  
so that was great  
yeah  
yeah  
i take have some money taken it and put in a four oh one k  
well we in in in our family have been pretty [remiss] in trying to uh you know keep track of uh daily finances  
uh the uh way back what twelve years ago or something when i got my first computer i did what everybody else does which is to put the whole family budget on the machine and put checks and you know checkbooks and all this kind of thing  
and we kept that going for about a month  
and it became so [onerous] that we gave up on it  
you know so uh the only thing we're you know that we do now is uh i keep a a little spread sheet of uh what i call the net worth calculation which is just the the present value of various kinds of investments and so worth  
uh and i only update that oh i don't know maybe once every quarter or so every three months just basically when the statements come in   you know just to see whether or not we're falling you know getting ahead falling behind or staying even or what  
uh that's really about you know the extent of uh of the kind of uh financial score keeping that we're doing  
huh  
oh dear that's terrible  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
are you are you married  
are you living with a bunch of with with people that you're sharing expenses  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you're the first you know uh  
my next door neighbor just lost his job   in a you know one of these uh  
his company went broke i mean went you know bankrupt  
actually it was a [subsidiary] of a of an outfit called u s shoe or something  
it was a computer [subsidiary]  
i don't know what a shoe company's doing running a computer company  
but uh you know they just folded it up and uh uh told him to  
they took the top management and gave them jobs   with the with the corporate uh at the corporate front office  
and everybody else was sent packing  
uh hang on one second  
i've got  
uh somebody was knocking on my door here  
uh it sounds like in a certain sense at least at the present  
i mean it sounds sounds terrible to say  
but at the present stage you probably are even more in the market for a a [budgetary] thing than than most people probably might be   in terms of keeping keeping score of input and output  
do you have do you have a computer at home  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
yeah  
have you do you use a standard uh a standard spread sheet  
or i mean  
uh_huh  
that sounds about right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh  
well it's kind of difficult for me because right now uh like most teachers i'm laid off  
and  
so um i spend most you know  
i substitute a lot  
so it's a lot it's very hard on a [nonfixed] income because i don't know how many days i'm going to be called in and whether i am or not to try to keep track of finances  
and but i know how much i have to bring in a month  
and that's about it  
that's about as far as we go  
and then anything extra is you know more or less split up between all of us   and just thrown in the kitty more or less for a rainy day  
uh no  
i'm a single mother  
i have three children  
so uh right now we're on we get you know aid from the state at this point because there's no other way to do it  
and my ex husband just sort of took off and doesn't pay child support  
so right now i know what i'm getting from the state  
and uh i have to balance more or less what i get from the state with my bills and uh you know try to work as many days as possible   any time they call me in  
but i still have to figure out  
if i work too many days then i lose all my state aid  
and if i don't work enough days then i don't get enough to meet the bills  
and it's like a juggling act every single month  
like this week i've been just holding my breath and hoping they'll call me in  
but they probably won't because next week the kids have school vacation  
so you know the four days before they only have a four day week  
and they usually don't need subs because everybody's pretty good about coming in  
they don't like to be absent before a vacation  
but we're shopping around as far as well i'm shopping around as far as trying to get uh that's why i'm doing this to get some extra money   and uh getting [pledge] sheets for the boy scouts  
my kids are in boy scouts  
so trying to get [pledge] sheets for the boy scouts  
because every penny i bring in is ten percent to me  
so it's sort of helps [defray] the costs a little bit  
but you know we do a lot of robbing peter to pay paul  
i guess we're in the situation that a lot of middle class americans are in  
oh my lord  
really  
uh_huh  
oh  
sure  
right  
uh_huh  
definitely  
uh yes  
we do  
and we try   to  
you know i keep track of every penny   and more or less enter it in  
every single day i'm at the computer  
and it's like okay what do we have left   what do we have to pay what   have we paid this month what hasn't come in yet you know  
okay uh  
we keep a monthly budget  
i just recently stopped working so i can be home with my kids  
so we keep a monthly budget  
and we try to stick to it  
yeah  
yeah  
that's the kind of things that throw you off  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh how nice  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well   i know  
we do  
my husband gets paid twice a week  
and so we pay all of the little bills uh one   paycheck and then like the mortgage and the electric bill you know those big bills the second   second pay  
and then again he does have a savings that comes out you know for christmas and stuff that kind of thing  
yeah  
that kind of thing  
but it's nice that it's there you know  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's nice that it's there  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's kind of how i felt when i was working because it seemed like we spent more  
we bought more things  
and it seemed like we spent more  
then a lot of it was going to uh daycare and that kind of thing  
so it just seems like with me staying home we had that big cut  
but we save more  
i don't know how  
and i don't know why  
but we  
it seems like we do  
yeah  
yeah  
you kind of try and buy bigger quantities  
yeah  
that's how i felt too  
it just  
you could take a little longer and   just watch a little bit more i guess  
i guess that's kind of like the way we do  
we  
i i don't i don't know how it comes out  
it just seems like we save a little bit more whereas   where i was working  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it adds up  
yeah  
it is  
it is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i have two  
one is four and a half  
and the other one's two and a half  
so  
yes  
yeah  
that  
yeah  
i just came back to find jeans for the little one  
and it does add up  
yeah  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that that's that's hard  
but i'm enjoying my stay home for the little time that i can  
for the  
i know it's not forever  
and that's what's so sad  
but  
i know  
it it's really difficult here all because there's always something breaking  
car needs tires or you know something  
uh uh we do ours more monthly than long range  
uh we uh  
my husband gets paid once a month  
and when he gets paid i pay all the bills  
and out of his check they take a savings  
and out of my check they take savings   and retirement both out of both checks  
so as far as extra savings we really don't have that much extra to save  
uh his check once a month pays all the bills  
my check weekly buys groceries and gas and   you know that kind of thing  
and it works out real well that way  
we don't run into a lot of problems  
but   budgets are horrible  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
when the car insurance is due and you call the credit union and tell them well send me some money  
yeah  
it uh it would be nice if we didn't have to touch the money he has taken out and put in savings  
but we do  
yeah  
it  
i'm just glad that it is there for   car insurance medical bills whatever happens  
but uh  
i know  
but i  
you  
it's just really is difficult  
uh neither one of us has had a raise in a couple of years  
and of course the cost of living keeps going up so much  
groceries are outrageous  
and i keep saying my check does less and less  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well   i uh i know that since i do work i buy a lot of quicker cuts of meat and uh   well the frozen things for the microwave and things like that  
and i'll stop by the deli and pick up uh chicken or whatever where if i did not work i'm sure that the grocery bill could be managed a lot a lot uh better  
yeah  
well  
well i'm sure you do  
uh i do not well i do not have to pay child care during the winter  
my son's old enough that he likes to come home   uh from school  
but in the summer he's still young enough that i cannot leave him by himself  
so in the summer i have that extra  
and ours is seventy dollars a week plus all activities  
and that's usually movies one day skating one day  
swimming one day  
yes  
so you usually end up paying close to eighty dollars a week  
and that's a lot of money  
but you know if they're going to be in daycare then they need to have some activities other than just being there  

do you have two children  
well they're expensive too uh just the   [outgrowing] of their clothes  
so i'm sure the budget  
yeah  
and medical bill  
although the insurance we had was good uh when thomas was younger a lot of the stuff had to be paid up front  
and then you were reimbursed  
so it was nice when you'd get a couple of hundred dollar check from the   insurance  
but in the meantime you had to put out the money first  
but  
yeah  
it is  
oh i would too  
i would i would advise anyone that could possibly do it to to  
well you probably wouldn't want to do it forever  
i don't know though  
budgeting activity in our household i has is uh uh kind of an informal kind of situation  
we we you know put  
actually what happens is uh is my check gets automatically deposited  
i don't even have the glories of bringing home my check anymore  
it just gets deposited  
and   and and my my wife you know you know looks at all those bills that come in  
and you know and all those people are counting on me to have my wife pay them you see  
and so our our budgeting  
we really don't have a formal budgeting situation  
every time i've ever tried one it's uh i've just got wrapped in my [inertia]  
and uh i've just decided not to pursue it  
uh what what's your budget situation  
you know well actually that kind of situation is just wonderful for budgets   isn't it  
uh_huh  
well my you know my my parents too  
you you   you were born in in the in the late thirties or early forties  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
well that that's good  
well we we buy what well  
we just got through buying a twenty five foot refrigerator a new ceramic top stove and a new dishwasher  
and and we put twenty eight hundred dollars on the charge along with my trip to japan   which was was fourteen or fifteen hundred dollars  
and you know  
right  
i mean we just we got a monster you know bill coming in  
but but we also have zero interest being paid  
and we pay it off as as it goes  
yeah  
so we never really get that much over uh over extended  
huh  
yeah  
we're we're doing that  
we have you know uh  
this is our our our big uh  
we did [redecorating]  
two you know two new pieces in the in the family room and new carpet  
i mean we just   uh we've just been spending spending spending  
but we haven't really done anything for a long time because we've we've had two kids in college that   just have graduated in the past year  
so we're you know we don't have that  
yeah  
it's uh it's about time that we did that  
but the the terrible part about it i've looked at it all  
and it all looks still pretty good to me  
why why we need to replace it  
but but unfortunately my my my wife really feels as though it's it's just been an inappropriate uh thing to to i mean  
that rug is thirteen years old  
why not replace it  
i mean uh i say it might go for another thirteen  
but uh too late we'll never find that out  
and  
you know i i i don't spend that much money  
i just uh we just sort of have had uh you know too many obligations to you know  
we sort of take care of the kids when they were school and they they got through school  
and that was the major you know decade of expenses you know  
so we we feel as uh  
but as far as any formal budgeting uh you know i i we just apparently have been very fortunate  
when we went want to go out to eat we go out to eat  
we never really you know have to program money for that or make choices you know  
but uh we don't have that [uproarious] a a lifestyle  
after all we're  
well actually uh i've i've had a couple of different situations  
my current one has been the most successful  
uh at a certain point in life  
my husband my ex husband was an alcoholic  
and we got divorced back in the mid seventies  
and that left me with three teenagers  
it certainly is  
but at any rate what happened was that i i just absolutely put away all the credit cards  
i didn't rip them up  
i didn't send them back  
nothing  
i just put them away  
because there was one that it was really handy to have  
if i absolutely had to have something i could go use it  
but uh mostly we just spent cash whatever we had  
and if we didn't have it we absolutely didn't spend it  
but then as things improved you know  
once once i got them all through college uh it came to the point where uh  
my parents came through the depression  
i'm not sure how old you are  
but my  
late thirties  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and uh my mother hardly ever spent anything on herself or on the house  
and that's kind of the way i was raised  
and so i'm not a very demanding person in in that aspect  
so for quite a period of time i just flat didn't spend any money  
now meanwhile i got had a a building bank balance  
and my intent was that whenever something went on sale that i really had to have i would have the cash to buy it right then and there   and not ever have to spend any money on interest  
and that that's the way i've operated ever since then  
it  
and you know if if something goes on sale and i don't have the money i still don't buy it  
oh my  
oh my  
oh my  
uh_huh  
and that's the way i do my credit cards now  
yeah  
i do almost all my purchasing on credit cards  
but it's the fact that i have enough of a of a cushion in the bank so that when they come i can pay them in full  
oh my  
i'm envious  
well i  
uh_huh  
it's time for you to do these things then right  
this is so funny  
that's wonderful  
but   you're lucky to have her because if you're like me and you have difficulty spending money you need somebody to help you spend it  
i mean certain things really do need to be done whether or not you think they should   be or not  
okay
yeah
me too
i know exactly what
no
it's really hard to do that
i mean it's i don't know
i guess um we do kind of have a budget
um but it's kind of funny
what we what we do
i guess is we try to proportion uh who pays what according to the salary that we make do you understand what i'm saying
we we pay a percentage um which is kind of strange
a lot of people don't do that
but we find that it works
you know
well okay um
like i pay a certain percentage of my pay check to the bills
and he pays a certain percentage of his paycheck
do you understand
okay
i guess i didn't really explain that too well
oh
that one gets used up quick is that it
that's
oh wow
that's really that is pretty detailed
well but you know that's good too
because i've been in the situation in the past where i didn't know where my money was going and that that's hard
to you know you can't keep up with it
and it really gets you in trouble
you know
and
oh yeah
yeah
that's easy to do
it's very easy to do
and it's
i don't
it
do you find it easier to
i mean do with a budget
do you feel like you're you do
i mean i know you said you have better control
but do you feel like you're really saving anything
i mean
oh well that's
uh_huh
yeah
which is easy to do
yeah
right
well that's good
i know what you mean about the school because that's what i'm trying to do also
and we're trying to build it enough so that i can go to school full time
because right now i'm going to school part time
yeah
so you know trying to budget is again you know at this point we're trying to budget enough so we can save more um you know
so i can go to school full time
you know it's it's not easy to do
oh oh it definitely is
and i tell you what if you work hard enough it'll happen because because i can we can see it you know i think it's going to be a couple of years before
i can do that
but but you know
but at least i can see a little bit of light just from you know doing this you know budgeting
and stuff
it really helps
but
right
yeah
it really makes a world of difference doesn't it
it really does
i know i've been in like i said the same situation you know where i've i've been in a situation where i didn't budget anything just spent money and spent money and spent money
and it doesn't work
it it really doesn't uh makes a big difference
yes
oh definitely
yeah
right
yeah
well that's a big that's really important because i do have a college fund set aside for my kids
you know
and my oldest one is um going on nine
so yeah
it's not that many years
you know before she's going to be going
so i hope that you know i can continue the college fund because it's important that they go to college when they get out of high school
right
no
that's true
i mean you hope you hope that they can
but you know you can't plan
right
yeah
right
right
that's the way you have to do it right
no
no
that's that's an important thing to me
and that's why it was very important for me because i didn't go to college out of high school it was important for me to budget in
a um college fund for them because it was just so important
i said i don't want them to go through what i went through
they have to have a college fund
right
exactly
yeah
right
yes
i know exactly
i was the same way
very good
yeah
uh_huh
you're
that's that's that's strange because ours all of their money goes into savings if they need something we buy it for them
and all their money has to go in their savings account
you know which maybe i'm being a little bit too harsh
but if they need something i buy it for them
you know i mean if it's an absolute need
you know i mean if they want something occasionally
we sure do as a matter of fact i do the finances in the family and what i do is take uh entire take home pay
and then i like divvy it up into sections into the house into the car into the anything that's to do with the house like utilities or electric or anything like that goes into the house budget
and then i have one for the food
and one for um an and each of these is allotted a certain amount of money and hopefully we stay within that budget
and then uh we have some for uh debt and some for just plain family you know like if the kids need clothes or if uh-oh
i don't know
you know if something in the well the house one gets the money for the budget if we need something new in the house or something like that
so that's pretty much how we do it
yeah
uh_huh
it does uh now the way that we can really get off track is if i start to pull money from something and put it into another into another budget
like if i have money put into the house budget and all the bills that go with that
and i start [siphoning] money out of that like into the food bill budget
um to buy more food and i don't do that usually but when it does happen then i get into problems with you know then i have to take money from somewhere else to pay the bills on the house and i don't like to do that then you can get really into trouble
and that doesn't happen very often because i'm pretty strict i don't usually take money from anywhere
unless i absolutely have to
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's great
uh_huh
yeah
uh it's it's kind of a good thing with my husband's company we can allot a certain amount of money and all of our we have four children
each of our children have a savings account
and then there's a basic savings account like a family one
and what the his um company does for us is we allot a certain amount
and like you said uh they they just take that straight out of the paycheck and put it right in the savings account
we don't even see that uh money
but we can take it
i mean it's available to us
if we want to take it out
but uh we just try not to touch that
but you know
and so we try not to even take that as part of our budget we just try to put that right away in savings it's very difficult sometimes to to not think and say well god we have a little bit in savings let's you know
but you have to be quite um adamant and say you're not going to touch that
so
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
i think that's great
yeah
right
yeah
we don't touch the kids we do have this joint one
like you said
and we do [fluctuate] money in that one
if we want to
and then there's one other thing that we have
and and we don't touch the money in that one
so
uh_huh
that's really good
that's good
you know
and that's so important because today things can be so expensive
they really can
that's right
exactly
it's just not possible to do it like maybe we did it when when we went to school
yeah
it's too hard
that's right
that's right
yeah
yeah
exactly
wouldn't that be great
yeah
i think all of those things are really important
and and uh the only reason i even went to a budget was i found that we um we would oh i can't think of the word like or money would go through the cracks you know
and at the end of the thing we'd go what happened to all that money the extra we had the overflow you know
and it just [siphons] itself away somewhere into the air and so
yeah
yeah
it's hard to keep track isn't it
uh_huh
right
right
i think that's great
yeah
i didn't used to have uh a money allotted out for debt service until um i just had a baby seven months ago
and she had extensive problems
and and the the specialists and the hospitals that she had to have you know uh she was in the hospital for like a month
and the money that accumulated in those
i found
i had to make that into the budget to start paying those off
and i mean the insurance
pardon
yeah
yeah
our insurance was wonderful
but it didn't cover everything you know
and so find you have to um do some of those things
and and when money is involved it can really get expensive
so anyway that's about how we handle our finances
an and uh that seems to work pretty well for us
yeah
well see even that i think is a sort of uh a budget
uh when you do that
right
right
uh_huh
i do we used to it got to be a great big hassle great big mess
and i i just don't do that
so what i have is uh a paper and uh and i put two columns my husband on one side and me on the other side uh we pay for check or else we take out of a t m services you know a certain amount of money
and i write every check down for the amount of money or whoever takes money out of the a t m i write down that amount of money and as it comes through uh on the statement then i'll block it off in in a bright color
so we know it's gone
and i can see what's left out and what's left over to come through the statement an to make sure that we don't [overdraw] ourselves or anything
but uh that's the way i do it uh receipts were a big mess for me
i can't do that that was just uh too much
yeah
i couldn't do that
so
oh yeah
oh yeah
i just uh they are such a [boon] to of housewives i know i
well right now we don't have a whole lot of money
so there's not much to control
um basically i'm usually the one that uh handles the money um uh my husband's been unemployed for a little more than a year
so we've kind of uh it's been extremely tight
but we've managed somehow
um we pay the necessities first
and uh then from there
if there's anything left
try and save some of it
but uh how you want to go ahead and say what you do
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
so you've already got it there when you've got the
yeah
that's a good idea
yeah
you don't just go overboard spending too much of the savings on one particular thing
that's a good idea
when we have some money
we'll do that
yeah
yeah
yeah
well some that's there're several things i do to save money
um
one is to use garage sales
and we do a lot get a lot of things used and the things that we do have i try and recycle a lot you know before i'll get rid of something i'll look at it and think what else can i do with this
and uh how else can i use this to solve some other problem somewhere else you know
and uh that has helped a lot
um and i do shop the sales and buy more than what we need
so that i've got it ahead of time
and i don't have to go out and buy it something not on sale because i've already gotten it on sale
then when the sale comes around again
go ahead and stock up again
um
sam's
um we have a sam's not too far away
but i haven't uh used it yet
they're going to they're building a new one that's going to be even closer and i'm i'll probably use it when it's over here
even a little closer
yeah
you have to buy quantity but um that's how you save money you know
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i think there's an awful lot of things that we spend money on that we really don't need
and i think since being unemployed we look you look at things more carefully you know do i really need this
or is it just something i want
and you have to decide how much you want
and and i think uh i've noticed that
however much money you have you can spend that much
or more you know people people will go beyond what they have no matter what they have
if they use credit cards
that's one thing we're trying try not to do is to use the credit cards because that just runs
yeah
yeah
if you and i really like paying cash instead of checks even
um we got changed to an economy account at the credit union
so it costs less to use less checks
and um those are just little things you can do
yeah
i uh having a garage sale yourself helps
we just had one this last week end
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
when you can't use it any more
that's uh
i think uh learning how to do things yourself a lot helps too
like i cut everybody's hair myself
okay
i don't have a budget
my wife and i i should make that clear i've been married thirty three years
and we've never had
and we don't follow budgets
but i've got the greatest system going
i just don't handle any money
and i told her when we got married that i am going to earn so much money
and she can spend on what she wants
but if she ever spends more than i earn she's got to go to work
she's never gone to work yet
so so it works
so it's so you know it's really great
so i you know to answer their question
i we don't we don't have a budget
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
you live right in new york city
uh_huh
so your rent is quite expensive as compared to what we're accustomed to back here probably
oh i see
oh yeah
yeah
well that's great
no
i can you know again i can see the reason for
and i have i have two grown kids and one my youngest son is ken they both have very very good jobs they live in chicago they have absolutely no problem
they have no need for it
and my [eldest] son he very definitely has to live by a budget because he just cannot control control his finances
but i don't you know i cannot see this which i have a very close sister in law that everything she does at the beginning of the month or every payday she sits down and fills envelopes and i've i find that that's a tedious bore i mean if we had to live like that
i'm not so sure i'd want to continue working
but for them
it works
so i mean whatever uh our system works for us
we we have a policy my wife and i both that we don't everything we have is ours as far as money
we don't [holdout] on each other
or anything else
and never really had a problem
but i do believe in uh retirement investment programs very much so uh nowadays you sound like you're fairly young
so i you know i keep telling my kids for god's sakes get involved in it because when they retire they should have a half
a million dollars
uh_huh
i'm fifty eight so
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
oh those things are great
i uh boy i encourage those yeah
you're you don't own a house
and i'm fifty eight and i just built my fourth home
so i just took on another mortgage don't ask me why i really don't
but it's a tax
i've had no
i've had four not all at the same time
but this is the fourth one i've owned and this one
i built
but i'm looking at this as an investment
so i hope real estate keeps climbing
and it's a brand new area
so it should
okay [vic] our topic is budgets
do you keep a monthly budget
welcome to the club
uh_huh
oh how interesting
oh
well uh it it's like the money it's hard to keep track of it as it goes out
uh i'm a teacher
and we're at my husband and i are at a stage in life where we've got one left in college
so budgeting is not our priority since we have one in college
their expenses run beyond any budgeting [allowances] we've quit
yeah
okay
i see
i stopped those four years ago
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
now we are you know um well we're at a point in life that we're looking to retirement rather than you know earnings
so it's gotten to the point where um yeah
automatic teller i only had the card
and it was on my own personal account
and it got way out of control very fast
so i have a tendency now i take an allowance
when it's gone
it's gone
now i'm finished if it's gone the fifteenth of the month then
it's gone
and uh we have a tendency not to use cash we pay everything by check
and so that way we keep control of what we're spending where it's going what it's going for
so um you know it's i take a hundred dollars a month
that's all i take
and you know i mean i don't buy groceries out of that's my own little slush fund if want to call it that
and that's for my little [incidentals] or running to the grocery store to get a you know gallon of milk or whatever
but um after that it's check only
so we can you know really know where our money's going and you know what's happening
what about how are you on charge cards
good
yes
okay
uh_huh
okay
yeah
well this might help you
because see my husband travels as well
and we have separate charge accounts
he's got an american express and that's only traveling
then we both have a visa or mastercard
so
anything on his american express is his and it's his expense now he gave me one
and if i go with him on work
i only charge on that card
i don't put it on my mastercard
so we've separated those two completely
and i know what you mean because at first we used to [intermingle] our funds and we weren't sure
or our bills were outrageous
you know because his traveling expenses were you know i mean he's a traveling salesman
so
um yes i do
well usually works out pretty well
um i try to project out um right now i project out six months
and i have my fixed monthly bills
and i know how much they are
and uh i have a percentage of my savings that i attempt to take off the top
not unless i have something come up
that's unusual
that was unexpected and then i may have to go into savings
and kind of the formula i use i use uh ninety percent of my check
and then i retain ten percent
and if i don't use it it goes into savings also
well my monthly bills are pretty consistent
you know you have your house payments the same every month
uh car payments are the same you know when your insurance is due
so you budget all that in
that's why a lot of times i only use ninety percent of my salary because some months
i'll have insurance
uh two or three times a year
and i need that extra money and to take it out of savings at that point
sure
a month at a time is not really a big picture of what's going on in your life because it doesn't give you any flexibility as far as uh [unforseen] situations
or something coming down the road that you know is coming down the road that you need to save for
yeah
i do it twice a year
and um you know i can adjust it every month
that's no big deal
but uh i just finished out december
and uh when i was done with it
i threw it away
and i already had january through july made out
uh_huh
yeah
i take the savings right off the top
i pay myself first
i'm the type of individual that you know i can't i have to put something back for myself
to feel like i'm doing my job
it's my motivator
i save about fifteen percent out of what out of my savings account not as well as the japanese do
twice a month uh actually every other week
so twenty six checks
yeah
so twice a year i pick up an extra check also
uh_huh
how do you all do yours
uh_huh
spend what's left over huh
uh_huh
there's really no certain formula that you can say well i want to save this much
and i want to spend this much for the house and uh i'm kind of in a situation right now that my our children are grown
and they're gone
so uh you know
and the house
is almost paid for
so we're in pretty good shape
uh we've done it for about fifteen years
yeah
yeah
well one thing we do about the groceries and we just got back from the grocery store
and we've been doing this for a long time
and we know exactly how much we spend at the grocery store
because when we come home
we write it down
so in a given month we know that we spent two hundred and fifty dollars or four hundred dollars or whatever it is
and if it's four hundred dollars
we look at it and say well why did we spend four hundred dollars
and we spent four hundred dollars this month because or last month because uh we had several christmas parties
so but we know approximately how much our monthly grocery bill is you know
and you should be able to do that too
within ten or fifteen percent of what
uh what you spend
once you get a track record
and once you establish your check record
well i sort of
i mean in my mind
i do
i don't write anything down or anything like that
i just know what my bills are and how much i need for that
and what's extra
i'm a nurse
and so i kind of figure i'm taking home a hundred dollars a day
so when i look at things like to buy or anything
i think of it in days
if i hear something is three hundred dollars
i think um that's three extra days you know something like that
so so everything in my mind is by days
and that's that's about the extent of my budget
yeah
oh that's a good one
well that's what happens
that's exactly what happens
uh_huh
uh_huh
so it's just when you think you might get a little ahead
that's right
that's what happens
so that's kind of hard
but
no
no
not at all
not at all
i i barely get by
yeah
it's hard
it's real hard
and uh it doesn't get much better either
that's how it goes
but i know
but you know i just think that you're marked and you're supposed to have x amount of dollars
and that's the way it's going to be you know i mean that's how it feels really
because there's there's just some people just have more money and some don't
and that's it
so
uh_huh
and and i'm lucky
i have a very low mortgage payment
i've had my house for a long time
and i don't have a car payment
and you know i i don't have a lot of things
so i'm pretty lucky
but i have to come up with the money totally by myself
so that's hard too
you know
yeah
how is housing there
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i'm lucky i'll never lose
but you know it doesn't matter if i lose a job one place i'll just go somewhere else
so
yeah
oh
oh yeah
really
and and they get a little picky in one place
and i know where i am now there's a whole big new administration
and they're they're scaring everybody to death
but i don't work on staff i just work on call
uh_huh
and so i have a couple of agencies that i work for
and i make much more money that way
and i can be independent
i don't have to go to all the meetings and get
into the politics
and i don't get the benefits
but i think it's more than worth it
then i just pay for
that
so
yeah
it's a great thing
but it's [risky]
and most people don't want to do that
yeah
i i feel like it
you know
and it's much more interesting that way too
you don't get burned out so much so
yeah
i have a twelve year old
and so yeah
i have to you know
take care of her
so yeah
so we know we've got to cover certain things
it's not just me
so
uh_huh
oh
well i know what you mean
it does look impossible you look around you
and i don't know how young people buy houses today or anything
i really don't know
oh that's terrible
yeah
gosh
yeah
well it's not too bad in this area really
the thing is there's a lot of money and like i'm in plano
so it's a little bit north of dallas
but there's so much money in this town and there are things that are three hundred and five hundred thousand
and lots and lots of them
but you can buy a nice three bedroom home for like eighty thousand
going to be a hard one
huh
why
uh_huh
uh you know it's it's it's it is a hard one because we don't have a budget
we barely have enough to cover what we have let alone keep a budget
oh is that right
that makes it real tough
huh
so how do you how do you make ends meet and how do you make sure that your bills are paid
and
yeah
uh_huh
huh
what does he do
a what
uh_huh
oh is that right
well that's tough
yeah
especially these days when uh the economy is so bad
yeah
i work on commission and uh and that makes it tough too because i you know you can't you can't always budget what you you know you can't have the same budget every month because uh you know uh
i am in the roofing business
commercial roofing business
and so you know i may do real well this month
but uh next month
it may you know may not rain at all
and we not have any work
so it makes it really hard to to set any budget
and uh you know
so uh i guess it's uh you know each family has their own own way of doing
i i do it
about the same way you do you know we pay what what needs to be paid so that we don't you know we don't have the lights turned off or have the water turned off or the phone turned off
no
i don't uh mostly because we don't uh
yeah
so how about you
uh_huh
yeah
huh
no
i you know most of the uh most of the financial uh problems that we have you know are things that we kind of brought on ourselves because we kind of overextended ourselves a couple of you know few years ago
with uh credit cards and stuff
and then the economy went bad
and you know i was out of work for a you know for little while
and uh you know been on commissions for you know few years
and it's just uh we just never got caught up
so do you own your own home
yeah
well we do too
and that makes it even
tougher because you know we tried to put our house up for sale
and uh economy is so bad
we couldn't sell it
yes
well we did too
yeah
well we got we you know all we asked out of our house was the the note
and uh shoot
uh somebody came and and offered us we would have lost twenty thousand dollars on our home you know if we were just to sell it
and uh so we decided to keep it and kind of just uh
yeah
try to make things uh work
she doesn't i mean she actually she does she actually probably works more than i do
but she does sewing and hair and stuff at home
and uh so the only you know i guess bright uh uh thing that we have to look forward to
is that i own part of the company that that uh i work for
and and so that's kind of helping us out you know it's making things a little more uh little easier because i can always count on a check on friday
we try to like mothers i'm i'm right
this minute [dishing] up cheap spaghetti which is one way which i keep within a budget
although i'm trying to raise money for a boy scout cause um actually how we do it is
my husband and i both work
and we try very hard to live on his salary and my salary goes automatically into a savings account which we try not to use too much
although from that we both uh we typically pay our credit cards from that account
so that's the that's the uh our household expenses are pretty well covered because they're pretty much the same every month
but it's our credit card spending that's always the problem
i don't know what to compare it to
i lived in
indiana and saint louis
but i was a student then
and you know when you're a student things don't mean much
um i think dallas is um relatively high priced homes
but then there's not i think energy and some of the other things aren't quite so high
and i my my [gestalt] is that our groceries are sort of intermediate there's not as bad as i had seen in big cities like new york or california areas
how about you
where are you from originally
from idaho well i don't know anyone from idaho i'm from indiana
uh and i have a great love for the midwest would go back in a minute
if i could
i married a texan
they don't always tell you
that they have a [homing] instinct but i our home uh we have a five bedroom home
um but it's more in the range
um it was around two hundred forty thousand
so about four and a half times your home
i'm sure they're probably quite comparable
or maybe i don't know
ours is nice our home is nicely located but i don't think the house itself is
particularly extraordinary how about budget wise how how
do you do a family budget
are you married
uh my husband tries very hard to do that for us
and we
used the managing your money software package with
[andrew] [tobias] are you familiar with that one
i'm sure there are a million software packages but um he tried very hard
and we were all computerized and we our regular monthly checks we printed you know
um and i did it for three years and hated every minute of it
and still found that about half of our checks
maybe a third i still hand wrote because it would be like in the school parking lot
or you know at my child's skating lesson or something like that
so we had to we had two checks two sizes of checks um my daughter wants to know where the spaghetti cheese is
um
so we we tried and it was pretty nice
one of one mistake
i think we made in that is that um for budgeting purposes in terms of putting it in a budget
we must have had eighty different categories and so they they became sort of [nonsensical] instead of
i always said if we had redone it we should have just put big categories like utilities and you know luxuries and entertainment
that sort of thing
well see
i suppose that's the key um do you does your wife work outside the home
oh my goodness
well with a c p a
and a business person you should be organized
yes
well we work with both
we work with individuals
and we work with companies and executives
and uh we do business and personal uh financial planning and budgeting and investing for those people
how do i handle my own account
uh well the first part of of of a good budget or a good financial planner is to uh number one don't have any debt
so
yes
being debt free is very important and keeping a budget uh below your income is important also
oh that's great
you're ahead of most of the people out there then
uh_huh
well a budget does not have to be rigid sure
uh_huh
right
well and one thing that really uh helps
i find in budgeting and personally in budget as well as a business budget is prior planning prevents poor results and uh lot of people uh have not even considered that maybe that a car payment a monthly car payment that they put it in every month whether they have a car payment or not
and therefore they would save up enough money over a couple year period to replace a vehicle when they needed it
uh_huh
well that is called smart
budgeting
oh it's real financial planning
but we're talking about budgeting
so that is very smart to do
uh_huh
right
right
well uh uh with the economy the way it is it's very important that uh we don't spend capital we don't have to because we don't know when we will need it
and secondly is is that we need to make our money work for us
so we don't have to work harder
and uh it just takes time to do that
and uh if a person has capital resources uh or cash on hand to take care of
is all you needed
i think just one is all you needed
well we don't right now we're planning on setting one up as soon as i can get some you know some better ideas on how to do that
have you used one before
um
oh yeah
i've heard of that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
have you put money into those categories or what do you do for that sort of thing
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well do you have any money that you uh specifically set aside for certain uh you know savings objectives
where do you put that money
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
that's probably the key part right
there is waiting until you get the money that you budgeted
i say that's probably the key part right
there is waiting until the money that you've planned for is there
what about credit cards do have you do you still use those
or
is that part of the system to [discontinue] that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yes
yes
we are
i am
and uh we've got some children and uh you know we've just seen the need for
well we just moved into a house uh that we're renting and
yeah
it really will so we're you know we're going to have to rent with a hard look at our expenses and things like that
and um you know really make the dollars go a bit further if we can
oh you don't
this is my first one we just bought a house about three months ago
and so we had to go on one and um what i do is um just divide up my paycheck and put it in each category
i put it in my day planner
and i have a certain amount on each column like under groceries or electricity
and i put so much in each one
and then just subtract the just spend what the amount in each column we're we're allotted yeah
if not
we're up a creek
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that's tough
we have an emergency fund
that we keep and that was tough to get
we try to not touch that
under the house
but sometimes you dip into it
oh yeah
uh_huh
do both of you work
your husband oh you are
where do you work at liquor [distiller] oh wow
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's a thing we try to stay out of is debt um
it's hard though when you first get married you want things to live on
because i just got married what two and a half years ago
and we tried not to do that
my wife worked at the time
so we brought home
no
um no
it's just me and her right now
we have one dog
but that's good
well she's looking for part time work just to try to pay off our car
oh
uh_huh
what does your husband do
uh_huh
that's true
um i work for morton international and make um i'm a process engineer
we make automotive safety bags
air bags
yeah
same thing
i don't do you have to up until do you have to go until the voice comes on
but i'm not sure
okay
oh good
well thanks for talking wendy
so you keep a budget
that's your budget hey
yeah
yeah
my uh wife and i we're a new young couple starting out
so we've been trying to budget
it's getting a lot a lot tighter and we've actually worked out a very extensive year long budget
so we know exactly what we're going to spend when
and when we're going to have money
and we've worked out a cash flow we just bought a house that's another reason why we're really keeping track of the pennies and that stuff
and so we have this detailed budget
and in some ways it's really kind of nice because there is not much of a worry or not much a discussion or any real conflict over whether we should do this or that
or we always have a there's a sense of confidence a little bit because we both know that we're going to have money to do what we said we're going to do
yeah
we as my brother told me when he he's in accounting
and he suggested we do this as we were making these big financial steps and all this stuff
but he said well you just do this
and you fight once
and and that's it
once a year
and that's it
because you've worked out the budget and what you're going to spend
oh
doesn't sounds like you guys have gotten something worked out and it's going to work just fine
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yes
yeah
well we've done see
we've only been married three years
and i my wife isn't real good with checkbooks and math and all that stuff
and so what i did is i just gave it all to her
and i said you have to do it
everything
and then i come in and help her
and uh that's been really good because it's you know we've both come to appreciate and understand what's going on
and she does most everything now
and it's really quite nice actually
okay
uh_huh
okay
uh_huh
right
okay
well that's good position to be in i guess if you don't have to worry about budgeting that what's left over goes to investments
so you don't you don't then actually plan that this month
i'm going to invest five hundred or five thousand or whatever it might be
uh_huh
so you always put aside at least five hundred dollars
okay
well i guess that's sort of a budget
and at least partial yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
sure
right
uh_huh
okay
right
right
sure
well that that's true of all of us
the uh well my wife and i both work
and we do plan
uh we try to plan major purchases
and we have agreed that we don't spend over a hundred dollars on anything without talking with the other one
so i wouldn't just go out and buy a you know a i don't know a new computer
uh without
well that's true
that's true
uh certainly when you're single you don't have to worry about consulting with someone else
and that type of thing
uh_huh
sure
so you have a committee meeting of all yourself
me myself
and i okay
yeah
i see
uh_huh
okay
uh_huh
sure
so you're careful rather than just extravagant and just grab anything that happens to meet your fancy right
right
sure
sure
okay
well we do that same kind of planning in that if we're going to get something you know whatever it may be
and we're comfortable and have the most the things we need or want the we'd you know certainly shop around before buying the new computer or the new v c r or something
even once we had planned that that's what we were going to get
yeah
go ahead
right
you make more money
but it goes away anyway
yeah
i have three children
and a house
so uh it's a it's a serious matter
but uh my wife's just starting to go back to work maybe that will take the pressure off
but i must i must confess the only control
i have over our budget is to try and make as many things as constant as possible
like tuition and try to make things monthly so that there are as few surprises as possible
i've started keeping a budget on computer
i guess each of the last five years and never followed through
and about this time of the year is when i get religion i have to do my income taxes i realize that better recording keeping would have helped
and uh i still haven't managed to uh uh do it the way i should
right
right
i believe if i had to that i could estimate all the major all the major sources of spending uh on a monthly basis
and come pretty close
but i'm sure that there are a bunch of surprises in there that uh i would find
and maybe learn how to control if i uh kept a formal budget or uh financial plan
but
yeah
yeah
the only problem is that if if you have children
what you are going to need for them a few years from now is what you need to be putting aside now
and that's uh
you can fool yourself
if you don't set that up
somehow
right
right
but you'll find that the kids don't really have a very good sense of where the money is going
so they'll ask for things pretty much constantly
and i i learned to say no pretty much constantly
and uh uh so i would be better if i had a budget
and i had a certain amount of uh fun money that had to be spent each month or that was allowed to be spent each month
i'd feel better about it
so
who knows maybe this will get me to do it
you don't have children
well that's a big change in life in a lot of ways
but budgeting is one of them
well that's one solution
that's an interesting spirit but and i suppose cats are like children
they don't take no for an answer as easily
yeah
yeah
the hard part though is not uh the hard part is uh uh setting aside for what they're going to need in five or ten years
that's uh really difficult
uh i swear i heard that beep but usually you can hear the tape or you can hear it starting uh
uh no
no
i am a very organized person that believes i ought to have all those things
and we don't
yes
i'm married
i have two kids uh young four and a half and three and i as far as setting down and putting a formal budget paper and pin you know and following it
no
we don't do that
uh i have a very good idea of what our expenses are and how much we can afford to spend and can't spend
and you know so it's not like we just totally don't have a clue as to what's going on
but i wish we were a little more organized a little more
faithful to a budget
right
right
that's right
that's right
that's right
well it's very difficult
my husband is in is self employed he's in uh financial planning and and so all of his income is commission and it's very hard to sit down and budget because you don't know what he's going to make uh you know we kind of think you know he usually brings home at least this much
and i can base you know base it from there
but there's months that he brings home uh you know three times that much
and there's some months
he doesn't bring home anything
it just depends on where the commissions fall
and so you kind of have to you know i in my mind
i know the basics i know what we've got to meet each month you know and and my salary helps towards that
because mine's set you know
but uh i think that we could probably save a little better or afford to do more things for fun that we'd like to do if i did follow a you know pencil and paper budget
but
well differently
i mean do i have a savings account sitting in the bank
no
but uh we do have you know universal life insurance on him
we have uh a four oh one k a coda plan [preretirement] plan on me through my work uh
so there are things that we have money invested in you know i have a profit sharing and pension savings more toward retirement now savings sitting at the bank that hey let's plan a vacation no
when we decide we want to do something like that
we start saving for that
and when we get it
we go
right
i think it's more and more difficult
i do have savings accounts for my kids at work
and uh and i use that for their uh life insurance investments uh but i also pull from that
and from mine
if we need the money you know if you need it for something or like you said the something comes up on the house and you've got to have it
well you go deplete those funds and use it you know
oh
that's true
yeah
now we have an interesting arrangement my husband loves golf
and i'm glad he i mean it's his release
it's his time each week where he's not dad and he's not husband and he's not employee
and he you know what i'm saying
it's just a release
no dad dad
not dead i'll have to work on that uh
and and i'm glad he has that i'm glad he enjoys it
but i used to resent it because i felt like all of our spare money went to his golf
i don't particularly have anything i like to do from week to week or day to day or or anything like that
and that's fine
uh and so what i started doing
and he's never said you know if i wanted something i'd look in the checkbook
because i'm to practical and say [naw] i'd better not spend the money
well he's never held me back you know he's always said if you want something go get it
but i didn't feel comfortable
so now when he goes and [golfs] i take you know if he takes out ten bucks or fifteen bucks or twenty bucks
i take the same amount
and i stick it in a savings account that i have at the credit union at work
we use a monthly budget
uh my husband and i my husband works
i don't
and uh he brings home the paycheck
and we have a budget or a balance sheet is what we call it
we have different columns for different areas of our budget
and we budget out a certain amount for each month or each pay period
and then we try not to go over that
and so anyway what do you do
uh_huh
oh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
oh my god
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
now that's a good idea
uh_huh
uh_huh
you're set
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
huh
wow
yes
wow
yeah
well i think that one thing that people don't do a lot of these days a lot of people just live from paycheck to paycheck and don't have enough to put away
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
uh_huh
well i wasn't brought up this way to budget
that's for sure
my husband was
and and it was really an adjustment period for me
to learn how but i could
see the wisdom in it
well we try it's it's not as easy as i had thought it would be
but last year i started keeping a total of our expenses and and where they were all going
and i have uh a budget book that i use
if you have people that have personal computers it would be much easier
but uh so then at the end of the year
i i [totalled] up what we were spending say for groceries or or entertainment or things like that
and then this year
i tried to keep it within you know a balance there
and then if there is if we are over budget in one item if we want to apply that to another one i try to do that
but it's not always easy when you have extra expenses say the car repairs came up this month things like that that you're not expecting i don't really know how some people stay within a budget
do you have kids
we don't have any cause i thought if we had a child
i don't know what we'd do
but my husband gets paid once a week
and i get paid every two weeks
and uh then every three months i have a bonus check and then that's when we we try to put some a side at that time as for as saving uh i take out of each pay check
i would put so much into a four o one k plan and a profit sharing
and then he does the same thing he puts one into uh a stock plan at his company and also into a retirement plan
because to me that's the only way we are ever going to be able to save
because if the money comes in
it's spent if it's not taken out before i get it
oh yeah
that's very hard
uh_huh
yeah
they say how old is he
he's five they say by the time kids his age are ready to go to college
it's going to be about seventy thousand dollars a year for college
and it's just unbelievable
you know i i'm just twenty nine
and when i went it was probably five hundred dollars a semester for the tuition books everything
uh_huh
where is she going
yeah
i am sure it is
oh yeah
has
she started having do the uh work at the hospital
has she started doing any uh work at the hospitals
yeah
because i i've got a friend that just graduated and took her test to to be an r n
and i i think towards the last year they were working at the hospitals and then they all had to buy all the uniforms and all the things which was an added expense
but it is hard
i don't know in in compared to say my mother and father living in a budget was no problem
it was just this is what we have
and this is what we spend but that's in this time
and you know i don't know what it is
well you know my husband loves to play some golf you know or something like that or or ruins the ball
with me in and both you know parent's didn't do that
if they didn't have the money they didn't get it
and we're not that way
uh_huh
uh_huh
and it's hard
and it's hard
like you know with interest rates
now as low as they are
hi
no
we don't really do anything formal um i kind of keep up with all the finances you know paying the bills and typically i do most of the spending too as well
so
uh you know i kind of have a handle on it
and i just sort of know what we can and can't do
and it you know it's worked pretty well i haven't really gotten into any major problems without having something formal well yeah
yeah
we have uh you know like a typical credit union account for you know just a a basic savings thing
and then uh we've got you know i r a and c d and various and [sundry] you know long term kinds of things
how about you
uh_huh
uh
right
uh_huh
right
okay
i guess we're going to talk about budgets and spending
and i don't have a set budget
i just know what i have coming in and i know what i have to keep in reserve in order to survive
unexpected unexpected expenses
yes
the things that crop up that you didn't plan for
so that's why we always have to have a reserve somewhere
so we can not be caught [shorthanded] uh_huh
i see
uh_huh
do you
do you kind of forecast yourself for the year or not make a forecast of what you think your expenses and then compare what the actual costs are
but you
was your shower pan out of [kilter] oh my
uh_huh
those
you know it really is a shame the way they build houses though because you can go over to england and look at those [castles] that are four and five hundred years old
and they're like you know so like a rock of [gibraltar] they're so steady
and [steadfast] and just [rigorous] constructed
and our homes here in the states you know they're made to a good wind would blow them over
which is really a shame for the to speak of the building industry like that
i mean the
well much faster than they did when i was a child growing up i mean those houses were made to last
in detroit
oh yes
solid [foundations] and wet plaster walls and hardwood floors
and the whole bit
yes
well i see
i don't have anything to base that on because i was an adult when i moved here i've been in dallas about twelve years
and you know i haven't really seen um a quality home
even the homes that i see that are that they're building out in north dallas where they're paying just thousands and thousands of dollars for
they're using plywood i mean pressed board on the roof
if i was the buyer i'd have a fit
they're not even using um a pure wood well no
not not plywood pressed wood you know where they take all these [remnants] and press them together
i would have i would have a complete fit if i saw my new home being built like that
i think we should have steel [girders] in our homes and there're not
i i just um it's just it's ridiculous
i just feel very very [disheartened] about the way i see the building industry go
no
wonder you know the hail damage is so extensive and and things like that where it shouldn't be
and your homes if they catch on fire they go up within a matter of minutes rather than you know uh it takes a long time for the fire really to get a hold because they're they're using inferior [inflammable] material
well see they should have known that they should have made uh they should have dipped them and and prevented and made them fire proof they they knew you know they knew i mean you know where are our engineers at our building engineers
well yeah
there are codes well it's their the building codes and the building laws are too slack that's what wrong
they're not stringent enough they're not after the consumer they're after the builder they're protecting the builder and not the consumer
yeah
i know it
yes
we did
we got caught we kind of
oh dear
i hope
we don't get in trouble
but as far as a budget goes i do not have a budget
i just know what my income is
and i have x number of dollars
um dedicated to a savings program and x number of dollars for contribution and but that's automatically in my brain so it's not written down on paper
i'm so used to it that um
uh_huh
uh_huh
is that
so you okay
bye bye
well good
doing great
i had a while to think about it
so why don't i start
and you can chip in when you feel like it
uh when we were first married we didn't think we needed a budget
and and i think it was fine with the two of us we just kind of spent as we wanted and seemed like we got paid off enough that it would cover
oh it's been about nine years
so then when we actually got out of school and employed
and we only started getting paid once a month
and we found that you really had to budget things or by the last week or two you were broke
so that's probably when we started budgeting and ever since we just you know
oh i don't know
i probably plan what we're going to spend each month
i mean we get paid
and i deduct all that we're going to you know all the bills at first
and then i set aside so much for utilities that we need and so much for this and then we have a certain amount each week to work with for groceries and and lots of times i go over that amount
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
this is how much you spent on this you'd better not do it anymore
right
and that's usually about [schooltime] oh yeah
yeah
that's great
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's great
i i break mine down quite a bit
i keep what's called a non balanced checkbook
but i put all like fifty dollars away for clothes for the month or fifty dollars for savings bonds and you know and then when i feel like it
i deduct that
or
but it's kind of a different way to do it
but
yeah
we do
and that
uh_huh
no
we don't either
we never we use it to float mainly
especially on big purchases there around christmas and
yes
yeah
we i bet
we haven't for two or three years or you know once in a while you you have something come up that is more than you can handle or or you thought you could handle and you have to leave a little balance we haven't for ages either
so far we've always had [refunds] we you know have we have three children
and that seems to really help
and we probably don't make enough right now
so but
yes
i think if we did see that we were starting
hi [diana]  
have you all been able to do much as a family these days  
have you all been able to do much as uh as a full family these days all of you  
yeah  
do you work outside the home  
yeah  
i don't either  
it makes it a little bit easier i think that way  
yeah  
so you have a break too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we have family that's far away  
it sounds like you might too  
yeah  
right  
and phone calls that's about about it  
that's yeah that's what we mostly do pretty simple things  
especially since my youngest one is excuse me only fourteen months  
she she's really getting to the age where she's playing   and likes to go places  
that's right  
oh that's a big thrill for them  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
have um have you ever been to the science it's called the science place  
we we haven't lived here too long  
and we went there a couple of weeks ago  
and uh  
oh yeah  
we  
i guess there's science place one and science place two  
we've only been in i think it's science place two  
the one we went in had uh  
the thing that sticks out most in my mind is that like a kids place area  
that really seem they really seemed to go wild in there  
where's that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh that does sound like fun  
it's a little bit of a ways  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's sounds fun too  
and and you said about plano and campbell is the petting  
that sounds fun  
i think maybe we'll try to do that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
because they can just do  
you don't have to have [tokens] for everything  
yeah  
that does sound like fun  
well i've gotten some good ideas from you  
definitely  
well i think i don't know if we've done five minutes  
but i'm sure that will be good  
it was good talking to you  
i really appreciate your suggestions  
okay  
bye bye  
hi  
pardon me  
oh yes  
we've uh been um we've gone other you know all kinds of places  
we go out to dinner  
we take the kids to the park  
and uh you know whenever we he my husband has time off or something we take them to the zoo  
or we you know we do everything we can possibly as a family  
no  
i don't  
yeah  
it does  
an an then uh you know my husband enjoys spending time with the kids you know  
he'll he'll take them out just to be with them  
so he they can have time with him an  
right  
so and we uh we try to teach our kids as much as we can at home you know we have we try to spend like monday nights we call it family home evening   and have our kids uh you know have little lessons with them and you know just see count see how things are going in our family and you know teach them about their grandparents or something like that bring out pictures of them so they get to know them  
and we just do all kinds of fun things like that  
an  
yeah  
we do  
so they   you know the only way they know their grandparents is by pictures  
and uh  
yeah  
right  
and uh you know they we you know we go to the park  
or we go in the backyard and sit down  
an  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and with you know me being at home and just having the one income you know you don't have this lot of extra money to to do a lot of you know extra things  
so you you make more fun than you know  
you know the kids just think it's wonderful just maybe to go get an ice cream [cone] or   yeah or uh you know go get a bag of m and m's or something like that  
they they think that's a lot of fun  
so we just we try to spend as much time as we can  
we you know  
our our whole weekends are are devoted to our children except for we might go out you know one evening or something  
but during the day you know it's all devoted to our kids  
and they come go to church with us  
and so  
yeah  
so  
yes  
yes  
that's what  
uh_huh  
the kids thought that was wonderful  
i is i'm not sure which one we went into  
it was about a year or so ago when we went  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they had a lot of fun in there  
and uh there's uh there's some petting you know like uh uh  
i think it's owens country farms has a free petting you know like a farm that you can go to  
and the kids can pet animals and stuff  
that's on plano road  
uh it's like in richardson you go up plano road  
it's like a little bit past campbell and plano road  
and that's a lot of fun  
they have tours going through there  
and uh the kids think that was a lot of fun too  
we take you know whenever we take them to [showbiz]  
or they think it's wonderful just to go to mcdonalds you know  
they don't go for the food  
they go for the to play around  
and   there's another place in mesquite called monkey business  
and it's a indoor fun park  
and it has a bunch of different rides for kids  
and parents get in free  
and it's like during the week  
it's like five dollars admission per child all day  
the petting farm  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and the one in mesquite is uh [scyene] exit  
and it's it's uh  
the kids just had a wonderful time there  
they you know you just pay that admission  
and then all the the the rides are free  
you know of course they have all the little video games and you know those little quarter rides you know to and stuff like that  
but   they thought that was lot of fun  
you can have birthday parties there  
an i think that was better than like [showbiz] pizza cause there's more for them to do  
yeah  
right  
so they had a lot of fun  
yeah  
i we try to do a lot of things as a family and you know [inexpensively] as possible  
so  
yeah  
that will be good  
yeah  
well it was good talking to you  
oh no problem  
well take care  
bye bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
okay  
well see i'm the third oldest of twelve children  
so like i said i  
and i'm only twenty one  
i'll be twenty two next month  
so there's nine that are younger than me  
my youngest sister is five  
and like i i don't have any children  
i'm just engaged  
and i'm getting married in october  
and we haven't discussed this at all um  
yeah  
exactly  
but um now i've noticed that like while i'm at college and when i go home my you know my  
i'm really close to the younger ones  
and um like when when like when i do go home they enjoy just laying around me you know  
like if we do watch t v at night they just like enjoy just like laying on top of me or something  
they like that  
but um as far as that goes like we play games  
i play like old maid and fish with them  
and we play board games  
and when it's  
like i'm from pennsylvania  
so when it's nice out we go outside  
and we like to play like kick ball and softball and stuff  
so   we do a lot of that  
and in the summer everyone is like i think there's like seven of us still at home  
and all seven are in a sport  
like also the girls are in softball  
and the boys are in baseball  
so all summer we live on hamburgers and hot dogs and sports  
that's it you know  
uh_huh  
yes  
right  
yeah  
we go and watch  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well it's funny because um well my mom and dad both were kind of athletic  
they both grew up on a farm  
but although you know it wasn't them playing i notice like whenever i was playing softball and such my mom and dad got into it more than i did  
i mean they'd be in the audience screaming and yelling you know  
so  
a lot of times the parents get into it just as much as as the kids  
and i found like a lot of times like when we went on to tournaments and stuff it was really funny because the crowds would like get into you know get into fights who can scream louder and you know everything  
so it's really pretty funny to see my parents get into it  
and they're not really even participating  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's um  
the the one down thing about having that many people in our family is you we really don't have any privacy when we're at home because you couldn't possibly have a house with twelve bedrooms  
but um like i say you know i'm twenty i'll be twenty two next month  
and i'm closer to the younger kids than i am the ones my own age  
and that's i think   that's because the ones that are older all have their own little thing to do  
and the younger kids are at home  
and i like to spend time with them  
so   i don't i don't you know  
we were all pretty close when we were younger  
yeah  
now that we're getting older people are you know each one of us are going our own direction  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
and um we you know we had blocks and stuff  
and we just did we would make  
like in the winter when it  
we couldn't go outside because of the snow and stuff  
we uh we would um clear out our basement  
and we would like do just even stupid things  
like we try [hurtling] our couches and stuff you know and  
yeah  
we would just run and jump over the couches  
yeah  
to see who could jump over you know  
we just made up our own stupid little games  
and like hide and seek  
well we have a a bigger house than a lot you know  
our house isn't the average small one  
so we could like play hide and go seek in our house and even stuff like that  
yeah  
well see they're um we're all like we're all pretty close together  
like my sister that's closest to me we're only fourteen months apart  
so there was always there was never just one alone you know  
right  
so we were all pretty close where we we always had a buddy to play with   you know  
no  
no  
not at all  
not at all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
i'm catholic  
uh_huh  
no  
not at all  
not at all  
but see um when i was younger i used to say that i would like to have five  
well i've even cut that down now  
and um but to me five wasn't even a lot because i was just so used to twelve  
you know  
but yeah  
it's so it would be really hard now to have twelve children  
well   well okay well like my oldest brother he's he's twenty four  
and he put himself through college  
and um there's a sister older than me  
she's still living at home  
but she works   you know  
and i think she even gives mom and dad a little bit you know of rent money  
and i'm putting myself through college  
and like i'm getting married in october  
and my fiance and i are paying for most of the wedding  
and then then my brother right behind me he moved out  
and he has an apartment  
and he works  
and then the next one down is in the marines  
and he's out of the house  
so it's kind of like they don't you know  
i i think they do  
uh_huh  
exactly  
like uh well i find it a lot when i'm up here at college because i've always had a bank account  
i've always had my own checking account since i was in like tenth grade  
you know i would work in the summer  
and there's a lot of kids up here that would have no idea how to even do a checkbook or you know   to to manage money  
like my [roommate's] laughing at you know at me you know because their [schooling's] paid for  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and see and then my mom and dad like whenever like we would go out and we would get a summer job  
and then we would start blowing money  
and my mom said well that's stupid for you to be blowing money  
she goes okay if your going to blow your money on other things she goes you can just pay for your life insurance  
so then we when we all graduated from college from high school   we all got  
we're still like i'm still covered under my mom and dad's life insurance because i'm still in school  
but i have my own policy too  
so i had a  
you know my mom and dad got it set up you know you know helped me to get it and everything  
and i have my own policy  
and then i pay for my own life insurance too  
and then   and then like my mom and dad because there's so many of us and because of the way the laws are you know now if we want to drive we have to pay for our own insurance on our cars  
because my mom said that's silly to let one of the older one's drive it  
if we were in a wreck you know you can be sued for anything now  
and she said that's really not fair to the younger kids  
if we were [careless] and was in a wreck and they got sued  
and then they can take everything away from my mom and dad  
and the little kids would have nothing  
and i i agree with her  
you know i just i don't know  
so if you know if we want to drive we pay our own insurance  
and  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
i forgot all about that that it had to be pressed  
um but anyway so so as far as  
we really we don't want to get in the habit of watching a lot of t v   because we both were raised you know that way you know where our parents sort of stuck us in front of a t v to be the baby sitter  
and we just don't want that  
we want more communication and interaction you know amongst us as a family  
and we both like sports  
so we figured well what what better way to get out and you know be together as a family   and also you know have it be good for you  
and plus we like we both like to cook  
so you know that's something we spend time together too is you know cooking and uh preparing meals and stuff  
so uh but as far as that that's about all we've discussed as far as for family  
oh my gosh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
long way down the road right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well do you do you  
so you go if you're if you're not doing any kind of sport thing you go to one of your [sisters'] or [brothers']   sporting events   and sort of like be there with them  
yeah  
well that's that's good too i mean as far as entering  
i mean you're you're participating  
but you're not you know  
i mean at least you're encouraging them on and stuff  
and that's  
because um even if our kids you know get into sports that we're really not interested in i don't i want them you know to know that we're still there   so to speak as a family  
yeah  
[cheering] you on and stuff  
yeah  
well that that would be fun  
boy so you you have a lot of experience as far as you know different ways a family can interact and and do things together   as far as  

twelve  
but it's  
so if you're not  

what if  
do people go off in their own little groups with that many  
i mean did like some people go to their rooms and  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
but when you were growing up and they weren't and the younger ones weren't around what did you do  
oh i see  
but now that they've all sort of moved off  
yeah  
so do you think even  
i mean what did you do when you were younger  
did you go do the board games and stuff  
you still did what you do now  
uh_huh  
[hurling]  
oh [hurtle]  
oh okay  
so you you had a lot of games and things you played   even when you were kids with the ones that you  
yeah  
yeah  
no not real spread in age  
yeah  
gosh twelve  
is that is that pretty common up there uh in  
oh okay  
i don't meet i mean i don't speak with many people that come from families that large any more  
i mean   my my husband's mother came from a family of thirteen  
but i mean that's his mother   you know  
and and their catholic  
and i mean that's  
well that's it then i think  
probably maybe that that  
but i mean do you see yourself having thirteen kids   or twelve kids  
yeah  
yeah  
but it's so expensive man  
i would think for your parents it would be it would still be hard even nowadays i mean just to raise twelve kids  
would be [shoosh]  
yeah  
yeah  
well sometimes i think maybe the larger families create more independence in the children though you know  
i mean   you don't expect anything because there is not enough to go around for everybody  
so you you kind of have your own independence on going out and getting it yourself   if you really want it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
or manage money or know  
yeah  
know you know how to get how to even go about getting money  
you know how to get a job or you know just what you know what when you get a job what your responsibility is  
are you going to blow all that money  
how easy it is to blow money you earn  
uh_huh  
wow   you've really got responsibilities  
yeah  
yeah  

so really i think sometimes there's an advantage  
i mean sometimes it's good to have a bigger family because it does make you more independent  
it makes you know that you can't take anything for granted   that when you get something you're lucky to get it so to speak   you know  
so um i don't know  
sometimes  
but now it it is hard i can imagine on your parents you know  
oh uh_huh  
well no  
would they  
no  
well both of mine are boys  
they're   eight and eleven  
and they're into sports  
i mean as a matter of fact that's what we're doing tonight  
baseball has started  
oh oh yes  
we start here at uh five  
up until  
it's coach pitch until you get nine   which my little boy will be nine in may  
so he's going to be with uh regular pitching  
and my eleven year old of course you know is pitching  
uh_huh  
but yes  
we're into baseball  
and it seems like soon as that over with we get into basketball  
we even have [peewee] basketball here  
so there's always something  
both  
if we're not doing sports we go somewhere  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
usually in the summer time  
different places every year  
we  
no  
uh_huh  
you know i've heard we have a couple of friends that goes to washington quite often  
and that must be the thing  
they really hadn't either  
they went to the memorial you know  
when they go it's on business  
it's not really just to getting to sight see  
oh i bet it is too  
uh_huh  
oh now my husband and i we go different places  
but our but when we go with our children we usually kind of stay close  
oh yes  
yes  
yes  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh yes  
but we try you know i try  
my husband also we're involved in everything our kids does  
because uh my dad died you know when i was less than a year old  
so i always just had a mother  
so i always thought when i have kids you know i really want to be involved with them  
material things  
yes  
that is  
yes  
uh_huh  
best friends now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you have to  
i mean you honestly do  
now i have friends that i love to death  
but and they have children  
but their children does anything  
we have to take them and you know   to do it  
and that really gets kind of aggravating after a while  
because you're saying well i work full time too you know  
yeah  
oh yeah  
problem  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i agree with you very much so  
now we waited several years before we started having children because we was still in college  
and we knew time wise or and money wise too  
would it would not have been a good idea to had them then  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
but you can't take this money with us though  
that's how i keep looking at it  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
if you if you can  
yeah  
yeah  
what are you learning to be  
what degree i mean what are you wanting to do after you get out of college  
oh that's  
my husband's into uh computers  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and you don't want to  
no  
no  
oh  
oh  
then you'll never leave  
oh  
uh_huh  
well maybe something will open up for you  
uh_huh  
well  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
well personally i don't have any children  
i'm twenty two  
and i'm doing my master's at n c state  
so uh uh children wouldn't be very convenient for me right now  
so what what how do you spend the time with your children  
um  
okay  
and did  
yeah  
what what are you doing  
oh okay  
do do they play like uh like does the eight year old play baseball  
okay  
and and in in his league do they have like a pitcher  
or do they have a standing ball or a machine or what  
okay  
oh okay  
yeah  
i i used to play soccer when i was that age   up in new york  
so  
yeah  
and how about how about like on the weekends  
do you do sports  
or do you go out  
do you go how about like for uh do you go for long vacations like a week or something when they have school off  
in the summer or like in the easter time like around now  
and where do you go  
have have you been out of the country  
oh okay  
well first they always say get to know your country first before you leave  
i mean   i i lived in places like  
when i lived in washington uh washington d c i never went to the washington memorial  
and then when i went back to visit i went to the washington memorial  
right  
right  
well it's it's a beautiful city  
but the problem is like first time i went out of here and they took me to las vegas  
and that was the most boring place on earth  
yeah  
did uh did like did you go to disneyland  
oh okay  
so but um now i don't know  
but um but let's see  
when i was eleven i went also to the caribbean  
that that was fun that was  
and uh then after that i  
my sister lives in turkey  
so when i was like fourteen fifteen i went i went to turkey  
and this christmas i went to turkey  
but basically it's a  
for the past couple of years i  
since my parents are are well  
i'm from argentina  
and my parents live down there  
so all the traveling i do is alone  
and uh we were never much of  
uh a very uh family thing you know made like go skiing in vermont or something  
that was uh that was a lot of fun  
but what happens is we used to fight a lot  
so there's never much of a family family thing  
you know one of those hell family vacations  
yeah  
yeah  
well my dad all he all he wanted to do was get money for us  
so he could buy us material things  
and and to me you know it's like now i'm twenty two  
but i still feel you know  
it's like yeah we never threw a football or something  
and the way i was brought up  
and he wants me now  
he like he you know like he wants to be best friends now  
and it's very hard for me  
because you know it's like you grow up to be twenty years old  
and it's always the same man  
and then suddenly he sees that he's getting old  
and he wants to be best friends  
but uh you know it's like i can only express myself so much  
because you know um everything that he taught me you know that my family taught me which is very hard to change that all of a sudden from one year to the next and say i'm sorry you know  
it's like you know i love you  
and let's go out and do things together when i don't feel like it you know  
and so that's that whole thing that he'll say when like like  
i've seen my uncle and his family you know does everything together  
and you know his kids are you know  
when his little girl was five years old and everything they uh they would go to the beach  
and she could go to sleep at two in the morning   you know  
and uh i was brought up the same way  
it doesn't matter what age you have  
just so long as you can get up to go to class the next morning you can stay up   you know  
but his what he does is when he gets home he separates his work from his house  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh it's just it's just something that you know  
my theory is you know when when you have kids and all you you want to do well  
what i'll do is you know like  
i mean you might have problems  
but it's not your kids' problems   you know  
and you got to try to be with them as much as you can  
and to you know like  
thing is is that you know like if if they would ever happen to have a drug problem suppose that they could feel comfortable coming to me and saying i got a problem   you know  
and uh   and that would make any parent feel good and bad at the same time you know  
first of all you're coming to me  
and let's see how we can get rid of the problem you know  
and that's uh that's very that's very hard to do  
because once you're best friends with your parents then i think everything go a lot better  
yeah  
yeah  
my my father was raising four oh well three kids before he had me  
so it was uh you know  
you're trying to support uh four kids  
and it's pretty hard   you know  
and i i told him listen you could have had a lot of money if you would have only had two kids  
he says yeah  
but then i wouldn't have you  
i go yeah  
but then you would have a lot of money  
yeah  
but you know like four i mean four children is expensive especially when you consider like especially for me which i'm paying out of state tuition  
i'm paying you know three thousand  
no  
what is it two thousand six hundred dollars for one semester  
and you know people say you know it's expensive to think it's college  
but if if everybody would be a little bit responsible you know  
it's like  
what does it what does it cost  
it costs five hundred dollars a semester suppose  
now they go to a state college  
and they live at home   you know  
and well it costs two hundred dollars for books  
but you know seven hundred dollars a semester  
a lot of people can spare that if they planned ahead you know like  
i mean it's like if you plan a year ahead you can probably save up seven hundred dollars   you know one thousand four hundred dollars to send your child to college you know  
oh oh excuse me  
well i i'm doing computer science computer engineering  
yeah  
and and now i'm looking for a job before they have to send me back home  
because since i'm an international student they want to send me back to   argentina  
well my dad wants me to go back  
so  
no  
no  
because if you go back there then you can never get out  
like you don't have any money to to get out  
so uh and uh i was thinking you know like oh my god you know i go back there  
and then and i get married there  
and now i have kids there  
and then i'll never leave the place you know  
yeah  
i know  
and that's that's what happened to my brother  
he came to school up here  
and then when he went down there  
he was just so bad off you know   from not being able to stay up here that   his life just went down the drain  
so  
yeah  
i've been calling a lot of companies  
there  
some of them are interested  
well at least for a year and a half   i can work  
so  
all right  
same here  
bye bye  
uh so you have children i take it  
you don't  
so it's not a very valid topic  
uh yes  
one  
stepdaughter  
ten  
and uh you know how they are at that age i guess   you having been ten once   yourself  
oh we have one  
a [keeshonden]  
yeah  
fuzzy little thing  
a fuzzy little dog  
rather rather odd personality  
he he's fun  
anyway uh time we spend with our children  
it seems almost as though children hate it  
yes  
time spent with mom and dad is uh next is probably one of the worst punishments spent on earth to them  
yeah  
they you know  
parents are a curse that they just have to live with  
so it it's interesting  
but we do spend time driving in the mountains  
and  
well  
do you work for t i  
you're working then  
with every passing day we wonder if we will be  
it's it's better to be employed  
especially these days where there is not a job right around the corner  
and that creates family [tensions]  
yes  
no  
no  
i don't have any children  
uh well it varies what it is of course  
but usually   mom and dad are a curse  
you know they they'd much rather be with friends  
friends are cool parents aren't  
well i remember  
well i'm sure part of it is a male female thing you know  
i i remember whenever i was growing up often times spent with my dad was oh just wonderful you know go   go hunting or go to the races   or or oh any number of things  
and we'd have um great times  
and it seems that well now the [bank's] not available  
and entirely too much time is spent  
my wife and i were wondering what if  
and and what [if's] always rough  
but you know we do have our trips  
and we do have our fun  
and   i don't know little girls aren't interested in lot of the same things little boys are or were  
hunting and and   looking for [arrowheads] and  
uh but they don't like it  
there there there is a difference there  
and and  
well girls at that age   video games boys and malls  
not necessarily in that order   and friends of course  
and that's a little tough for fathers  
fathers don't even like malls  
they despise shopping  
so is that quality time  
yeah  
if  
but there is camping  
and we both enjoy that  
somewhat yeah  
yeah  
getting up in the mountains and getting away from it all  
and   that's somewhat fun  
it's  
so what do you think about child rearing  
is  
how how would you spend time with kids  
oh yeah  
yeah  
but  
well yeah  
and amazingly a lot of times it's real easy  
you know a lot of times whenever we head out of town on a trip or something   it's real easy to swing in there for breakfast  
breakfast and run  
and breakfast is a kind of a funny meal anyway  
and uh kids eat funny  
and little girls are worse about it than little boys  
they  
or or something yeah  
go on a diet or they they have a well  
to some extent the public schools or the schools in general   influence them   the eating meat kick  
you know like it's really morally wrong to eat meat or something   i i'm not sure  
of course that's not the way i was raised being raised in west texas  
oh yeah  
born in denton raised in lubbock  
so i understand about bass  
but it but it is interesting  
i i will tell you  
yeah  
every person out there should have kids at least once or or have some they can borrow for a time   because everyone needs some torture in their lives  
uh but [jenny] is a sweet kid  
and yeah  
we do do things  
and it it's funny  
it's almost like a lot of things that were available to us as children   to go do  
the money's not available  
you know we were talking about how much it cost to go to disney land  
golly  
a couple  
three hundred dollars  
you know for just for just a day not you know a day or two not including lodging and food and all that  
it's  
i don't see how anyone can afford it  
and i understand six flags is real expensive now  
oh yeah  
twenty bucks a whack now  
but at least once you pay your way in there   at six flags  
yeah  
yeah  
food and junk to carry out  
so that's that's not as bad  
but golly  
you know disney world or disney land  
well our problem is that you know a trip to six flags or disney world or uh disney land or god forbid disney world would take forever  
or you'd have to pay air fare  
and ooh for a family you know for a family it gets pretty expensive pretty quick  
rent a car when you get there and all that  
yeah  
no  
i don't  
no  
huh_uh  
no  
it's not  
do you have children  
uh_huh  
one  
uh_huh  
ten  
yeah  
once upon a time i was  
well i have two dogs  
those are my kids  
what kind is it  
oh really  
uh_huh  
a what  
yeah  
yeah  
they're cute  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do they  
yeah  
especially when they get like into the teenage stage  
i guess  
yeah  
i remember when i was that age  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh how nice  
i would love to live up there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's what i heard  
i've always thought about maybe [transferring] up there  
and i thought if i do that i might not have a job  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know it  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm sure it does  
so you only have the you only have the stepdaughter at home  
you all don't have any other children around there  
uh_huh  
so how does she feel about going out and doing stuff with you all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
no  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
um   uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
like fishing and  
yeah  
my husband will say that he'd like to have a little boy to take hunting and fishing  
and i said well you can take a little girl hunting and fishing just as easily  
that's probably right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
if my dad had done that when i was a kid i probably wouldn't have liked it  
i go now with my husband  
and i enjoy it  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i imagine  
uh  
huh  
no  
i think not  
uh_huh  
she likes to do that  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
she  
huh  
probably doing [outdoorsie] stuff and keeping trying to keep them away from the t v i guess and mcdonald's  
i i always said that if i had a kid they wouldn't know what mcdonald's is  
but they learn from their friends  
don't they  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
this lady in our bass club we had a tournament yesterday  
and she was talking about her daughter said one week her daughter will uh be on a no meat kick  
and one week she'll eat nothing but [twix] candy bars you know  
she just eats weird  
yeah  
yeah  
they're always wanting to go on a diet or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh is that where you're from  
uh_huh  
oh um  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
that's the kind i like  
my mother used to put that curse on my sister  
i hope you have kids just like yourself  
and my grandmother must have put that on my dad because he got my sister  
she's just like him  
yeah  
i'm sure she is  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
i don't know how people can afford kids  
i mean  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh  
it's uh  
i heard it's twenty bucks a whack  
for adults  
yeah  
that is awful high  
oh well  
yeah  
or twenty one  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
everything's free except for the food  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's why i lucked out  
my dad worked for [braniff] when i was a kid so we got you know our air fare free  
and we got  
okay  
well gosh  
all kinds um  
mostly between the ages of two and ten  
um last like a few summers ago i kept two children every day for the entire summer  
and i mean they became like my children  
and um and they live in an apartment complex  
so we swam a lot  
and we played on the playground a lot  
and then we would go to a movie on thursdays  
and um there was always an activity  
you know they had their favorite t v shows and things like that that we watched  
and then we took naps  
and um i don't know  
it it just seems like there was always something to do  
children are so full of energy  
and oh they were they just they just keep you going  
uh one parent  
yeah  
she's just  
not much at all  
i mean i would get there at eight o'clock in the morning  
the children usually weren't awake by then  
and she would get home at like five thirty in the afternoon  
and they would have dinner  
and then it was time for them to go to bed  
um now at this particular time the children were two and six  
but then i also  
i've been baby sitting this child uh for about eight years  
he's nine now  
and um you know i've watched him grow up  
and he's like a little brother to me  
and it's changed over the over the years um  
we get along a lot better now that he's older  
and uh we do different things now  
we used to play ball a lot  
but now it's he likes to watch t v  
and he's into wrestling  
and um i kept him on friday night  
we went we went to go see a movie and um things like that  
but i feel like i don't know when i have children i want to be able to spend a lot of time with them  
uh_huh  
i go to l s u  
uh communications  
oh yeah  
i mean i love children  
um i don't know  
seem when i was growing up my mom stayed at home with me and my brother until we were in junior high  
and i don't  
it would i think it was very beneficial to us  
i mean like in the summer we were always in the library programs reading books  
and we went skating a lot  
and you know she was just always there for us  
but nowadays if there are two parents to a family the mother works just as hard as the father does  
and the children either stay at home and get into trouble  
or they're stuck in a day care  
and i just i just don't want my children to have to be raised like that  
all my friends they their parents worked all the time  
they got to stay at home by themselves  
and when i was younger i thought they were lucky because they got to get away with things   like i couldn't ride my bike across the street but they could because they're mom would never know it  
but now i realize that it was better because um they have got into a lot of trouble   because of lack of supervision  
uh_huh  
well i'm majoring in uh public relations  
yeah  
yes ma'am  
right  
uh_huh  
well i would like to uh stay at home with my children for at least the first five years  
but what what i plan to do in the future is um go ahead and get my upper education as far as my masters   and work on my doctorate and teach um college  
and in that case then i'll be i'll be at home when my children are at home  
but i'd like to stay at home with them until they get in at least into kindergarten   where they're at school from what eight to three or something  
and then i would be at my school   teaching  
and um  
oh really  
what grade  
oh did you  
what did you teach  
oh oh i started out as a p e major   in education  
i wanted to be a p e teacher  
i sure did  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
oh  
yeah  
that's right  
they need some attention  
well see whenever my mom stayed home with us we did without a lot  
i mean we were  
it's hard to make it on one income  
but we did  
and and we lived in a trailer for eighteen years  
and um you know we we only had one car  
we only had one telephone you know  
we didn't get to eat out all the time  
but i i feel like that it helped me now because i appreciate the value of the dollar  
and um i also had the supervision that i needed while i was growing up  
and i hope that i can provide that for my child too  
oh we have  
uh_huh  
it is  
it's way too late  
i agree  
it is   because all the peer pressure   it starts in high school  
and the parent really needs to be there for the child  
oh great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i guess that was good that you were you were hearing it from other students  
well um  
does your son work for t i  
oh  
oh goodness  

okay  
now when you baby sit what age group children do you sit with  
uh_huh  
i'd think so  
uh_huh  
now was this a one parent or two parent family  
one parent  
how much time did she spend with them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  

you say your you go to school  
and what are you studying  
well sounds like your getting a lot of experience in communicating with children  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that that certainly can happen now if  
you you say you're in communications  
uh what base of communications would you be most interested in getting in to  
public relations  
so   so you would have a job with a company   rather than uh radio or television or newspapers or   what have you  
yeah  
and uh then you'd be willing to give up your job to stay home and with or stay with the children  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that that's uh is an advantage of being in the education field  
i spent thirty four years in education  
yes  
and   so  
oh i started out with college and then went to high school  
and then i preferred the high school age level much better than i did the college   because you have a closer relationship with the uh students   that  
i taught physical education  
uh_huh  
well  
i uh i found that uh it was a perfect combination from the standpoint of having vacations off at the same time  
and uh and it worked out fine from that standpoint uh plus the fact that uh when i left uh  
usually uh my husband was seldom home for maybe forty five minutes or so  
and then our son he had to get on the bus  
and he did get on the bus  
it was his responsibility  
and he never ever thought of uh not going to school he said in view of the fact that he was certain i had a hot line to his school   because uh i uh  
well i i was in physical education then  
and i just kept getting pushed into administration  
wound up in administration  
and so   he thought surely that i or i would have bought a hot line   to know if he ever skipped school which of course was not the case  
and i wouldn't have checked on him  
however uh there are there are points both directions in that uh from the standpoint of parents working and not working  
uh i listened to more than one parent say i don't know what this child wants  
i'm working two jobs  
they each have their own television  
they each have their own telephone  
they each have their own rooms  
they each have this  
they each have that  
i'd say but what they don't have is you  
absolutely  
and uh i think out  
because that is the way of getting attention  
that's right  
huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and we certainly uh we need more of that  
we need more parents willing to supervise  
though we've had such a breakdown in the family structure   from the standpoint of of uh church and school and everything along the way  
and that i think has contributed much to uh the delinquency that works grant and the poor school results that we're having uh that the students uh parents have just not really taken enough interest in them from the very very beginning  
and i think my feeling was that the very best teachers should be in grades one two and three to get the students off to a good start let them have positive um uh experiences   from the lower levels so they want to continue learning and uh keep going and not wait until they're they're in the ninth and tenth grades  
it's too late then  
you cannot   reverse that trend at that point  
right  
and uh while parents very often will be involved with the school activities when the child's in the elementary school  
and they get into the high schools so often they seem to drop away at that point  
and that is just as valuable   at that time as to the rush in the elementary  
yes  
right  
right  
and uh the child needs to take pride in the fact that their parent is doing something  
uh we were fortunate in view of the fact that my son did play football  
and i did keep statistics for his team  
and   his dad did take movies of the football team and movies of the basketball team  
and we tried to be a part of it but not [overshadowing] him or making him feel that we had to be there all the time  
so i feel that i learned a great deal from my students uh with regard to what their biggest complaints were with parents  
and a thing such as uh  
one of the biggest complaints i well remember because i spent a lot of time with seniors   uh was um carrying their  
when i was your age i didn't have this or that  
and i know i never ever said that because i knew that that was one thing that was really irritating to young people  
yes  
and i had to deal with their problems  
and i could talk about the kinds of problems which they were bringing that they had just in general aspect  
and our son would share this  
and then he would have to make decisions for himself along those same types of of uh lines so that   i think he benefited from my experiences  
no  
no  
he uh works uh for a different company  
yeah  
in the dallas area  
but when he went away to  
and he was on the lawns from the time he was in the seventh grade and uh a small and all the way through college  
and he held three jobs wally was in college  
and we didn't even know it  
he didn't even tell us   uh that he had three jobs  
but when he graduated he had a five thousand dollar bank account  
and uh we had told him that if he ever wanted to go to college he could go  
if he got married he was on his own  
if he [flunked] out he was on his own  
well [brent] i've been um i kind of gave up my career about three years ago to stay home with my children because i thought uh if it it's only going to be another year until the youngest is in school  
and i thought it was a good sacrifice to make   because um it was important to me to to spend some time with kids  
i know that when i was in school and getting my degree at the same time my husband was it was really hard on our family because i would he would come home  
and i would leave  
and then when i would come home  
and he would leave  
and um so i think one day one of our kids said you know  
someone came home  
and they said well when is dad leaving or something  
it was like that they thought that's the way life was   that you didn't have two parents at home at the same time  
and so i think um it's become real important to me that we try to spend time together as a family  
so there's one or two nights a week we have a  
on monday nights we set aside time where it's called uh family home evening  
and we stay home that evening all of us  
and we do things together  
yes  
oh you are  
yes  
and  
so you do that  
and right and then we try to do a family activity on saturday   usually in the morning  
right  
and then you know sometimes we try to do our lesson on sunday night and then our activity or something on monday  
but   we're it's real important to us to spend time together  
i have two  
uh_huh  
i have a girl and a boy  
and the boy's five  
he's in kindergarten  
and the girl is four  
she'll be in kindergarten next year  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh   uh_huh  
they are a handful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well no  
and it's it's just not um it's not as stable for the kids  
and they everybody decided to come over and talk to me right now  
but uh it's yeah  
well it's also important i think um for my husband  
i i try to go out of my way to to plan things that he can do with the kids because   since i am home with them and so i get a lot of time with them he needs to have um some time with them  
so he when he comes home he um you know it's his job at night he puts the kids to bed  
and he reads to them  
and he spends about an hour doing that  
and that's that's pretty good quality time   with them  
and um but it's hard for him on saturdays  
he he wants   right he wants to run out and get things done  
and so um i try to say well why don't you go fly [kites]  
or why don't you   do something  
and if i have something in mind then he he remembers that   that's what he wants to do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well that's right  
but i do think um you know like the current trends are that um the family unit is [devaluated]  
it's not   nearly as important  
we find that you know back just even fifty years ago when people had financial problems the first place they went to was their family  
and families took care of themselves  
and um but now you know people don't they don't   support each other that way  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and  
right  
right  
and it's not an easy sacrifice for a person to make   because you know i you know i have interests that   too  
and it is hard to make uh those interests not be as a major part of my life  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
it is temporary  
it in the middle of it it seems like a long time  
but you're right  
it is temporary  
well i see that we both share the same belief here that   it's important that we spend time with our kids  
and   and in spite of  
uh_huh  
yes  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it is   the hardest thing i've ever done as much as you'd go out  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
uh_huh  
no  
yeah  
i think so  
i think it's an investment in your future even if it's purely not not religious  
you can at least say that it's important to our country   that our family unit stays strong  
yes  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you must be a  
so am i  
yes  
what a coincidence  
yeah  
i know what family home [evening's] all about  
uh_huh  
right  
and then the family home evening too  
right  
well that's good  
um how many children do you have  
two  
what what do you have   five and four  
i have two daughters  
my oldest is uh four  
and my youngest is about to turn three  
two girls  
and they are a handful  
yes  
we've my uh well when we first got married my wife worked for a year  
then we decided to have kids  
and uh she she got pregnant  
and then we decided she would stay home with the kids  
we would make that sacrifice  
it is a financial sacrifice to make because we go from two incomes down to one  
and uh we made that decision  
and uh so after she had the first baby she stayed home  
and and we had a second baby  
and she's still at home  
and so uh you know at work a lot of people are you know  
i think well this is not a normal situation anymore in our in our world we live in  
most of them uh continue to work if they have have kids  
i only have one other person i know in my in my group here that works where the wife stays home  
and that's because of religious values as well  
they're [baptists]  
and they and they think that's important  
but everybody else works  
and they drop their kids off at day care and and leave them  
and i don't know i just don't want i just don't want strangers raising my children  
right  
that's how it is at our house when you're on the phone  
oh it's open  
anything goes when mom's on the phone  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
with all the yard work and things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
we feel that you know just spending time together  
you don't necessarily have to be doing anything you know that costs money or or you know that requires you to go a great distance or anything like that  
it's just the kids like to being together as a family  
like last saturday we went had some errands to run  
and so we took the kids and and went by the farmers market down in in down there in garland  
and they had a blast running around the farmers market looking at all the you know   the food and tasting all the free samples they were giving out  
and they had a little pen there with animals in they could pet you know  
and they liked that  
and then on the way home we drove by the local high school  
and there happened to be an f a f a a future f a future farmers of america f f a   going on there  
and they had all kinds of pigs and horses and [goats] and sheep and everything you know all out in this in the in this [schoolyard] there  
so we just said hey let's stop  
and   and the kids got to go around and you know see pigs and animals and things like that  
and and for them that's wonderful you know  
they they thought it was the greatest fun you know  
and it didn't cost any money  
and uh you don't have quite as much money when when the wife doesn't work  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
oh definitely [motherhood] is devalued in this society  
if you're stay at home and you're a mother it's like what a waste   people think you know you should be fulfilling yourself  
and and a mother isn't an important   important thing as as having a career  
and and that should be first and and children second  
but they don't have kind of an what we call an internal perspective of things  
but that  
no  
right  
uh at this point  
it's not to say that some day you won't go back to work  
my mother's a school teacher  
and when when we started uh having kids she had to work for a little while  
but then she just started substituting  
so she would just substitute once or twice a week you know just for that little extra money when we were in school  
then we would just come home and just be you know go to a neighbor's house for an hour  
then she'd be home  
but she wouldn't do that every day  
but now that my my uh youngest sister's at b y u now  
and so they have no one at home  
she's back teaching school full time now again  
so if you know it's not it's just a temporary thing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you it's it's hard sometimes at work because you know people say oh we're taking a cruise  
we're going here  
we're going there you know   because they have a lot more money  
and a lot of them decide just not to have children  
it's it's amazing they either have one or none  
and and the one person i know that has one they they feel guilty  
she has this continual guilt trip that she's not doing the right thing  
and so on uh on weekends she would you know spend all of her time with her kids and spend lots of lots and lots of money  
basically i think they they really spoil the child   to try to [overcompensate] for their guilt feelings  
and and and they don't want to have anymore children because they just don't think you know that she doesn't think she could be a mother at home  
that's not her bag  
so she just doesn't think that she could you know  
the guilt feelings she can't deal with   with it anymore  
so  
you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my wife uh likes staying home  
uh she works at home some though  
the place she works with worked with before um worked out an arrangement with her where she can work at home   part time  
and so uh that it's kind of a seasonal thing  
three times a year she's really busy doing certain things   based on that kind of business  
but the rest of the time she's free  
she likes to sew and do crafts and things like that  
so she enjoys staying at home  
but uh the money part of it is not as rewarding obviously  
but   there's different rewards you know different kinds of rewards  
right  
right  
right  
and you really have to make uh quite a bit of money  
the wife doesn't make it worth it with the cost of day care  
i know there's you know  
when you adjust your income for what you put out for day care you know you're only making like five  
okay  
i'll let you go ahead  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
that's great  
i always thought it'd be great to have twins  
well yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
your first ones you mean it   was this way  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
that's difficult  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it happens that way  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um uh_huh  
texas is   much worst for the drugs  
i mean it was bad enough every place else  
but drugs is in texas are extremely bad  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's all you can do  
well i i was going to ask too does your wife work  
uh_huh  
she just recently started working then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so that sounds great  
well uh we also have five children  
and but ours are all out of the nest  
so uh as when they were growing up i probably we had a lot of similar things like you had you know having the time  
when you have younger ones to take care of you maybe sometimes do not take as much time for the older ones  
but uh we were we're very active of course at church and uh boy scouting and girl scouts four h uh  
and those activities helped a lot in   giving us things to do with the children  
and uh we try to take a vacation with them every year camping of some sort something that wasn't expensive  
and uh our youngest is uh expecting her first baby  
so they're they're all out and on their own  
they're  
and we have one to get married yet  
and they'll all be married  
uh and they're they're all doing pretty good  
they uh  
t lives in pittsburgh you probably don't know where that is  
okay  
two of our children live there  
uh one i like i said lives near in in around maryland d c  
he works right on the border of d c  
and one lives in connecticut  
and our baby lives just a mile over the hill   so we'll get to see her a little more than uh what we do the other ones  
uh_huh  
well   they have to  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
to go to follow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and that does make a big difference  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's   that's  
well none of us are  
let's face it   you know we're not none of us like they portray it on those shows  
i mean   life's much more difficult than that  
and uh  
right  
right  
now our daughter our well she's our second oldest she has she's the only that other one that has children  
she has two boys  
and she works full time  
and i have mixed feelings about that  
she's able to do that  
and i don't know if she'd be happy to stay at home  
but yet on the other hand i i've got the mixed feelings that i think you should be at home with your children  
i'm kind of old fashioned i guess that way  
but they seem to they seem to give uh quality time to those children when they are together  
and and so it seems it seems for them that it works out all right  
so i don't know  
i i don't think i ever would have had what it would take to work full time and raise a family  
so   i  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
it does   it it  
yeah  
yeah  
what line of work are you in now since you went to school  
and   oh   okay  
okay  
a lot of the people i've that's i've talked to work for uh for the same  
uh  
uh_huh  
which your income would be a lot better   now  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
and it's   kind of a waste of a person  
you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and you   you recognized this and   was able to you know   do something about it  
uh_huh  
well it puts a strain on everybody your wife and your family  
and the only thing you can remember is to try and stay together as much as you can   because it's very easy to uh become go your own direction   when you're when you're working so hard and going to school too  
well that's wonderful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it sounds to me like uh you're doing well  
my husband's retired  
so uh he's been retired for three years now  
yeah  
that's quite a change  
oh well he made it at fifty  
it was a magic number for him  
and and uh he went at fifty  
and he still works part time at other thing you know same job as he was doing only he's retired and doing it independently  
but uh nevertheless retired  
okay  
i uh i have five children all together  
uh my oldest two are already out and about in the world  
and i uh have a set of twins that are fourteen  
and uh my youngest is twelve  
uh yeah  
if you like doing everything twice  
uh at any rate um my first two children uh i didn't spend a whole lot of time with them  
um and you know was a a problem with having five children needing to work a uh a full time job that   was more than a full time job  
i   worked about fifty one hours a week because i worked every worked eleven hours every sunday  
and uh so i didn't get to spend as much time with them as i as i should have as i really wanted to  
yeah  
the  
yeah  
the  
well it was with all of them  
but it was uh more an impact i think on the oldest two  
because um oh about the time i got out of working that long hours was when the uh when the twins were about three years old  
and uh they never you know i don't think they noticed i wasn't around that much  
you know with all the children around the house it's   kind of hard to notice that dad isn't around   very much  
um so what i've tried to do uh now that i've uh  
went back to school and got my degree when i was thirty years old  
and uh so then i came out and was making as much money forty hours a week as i did fifty one hours   a week  
so i've tried to spend more time with uh the children since then  
um what i'm currently doing is uh taking a lot of time  
i'm helping the kids more with their homework in the evenings  
um we just started a thing where every other week we go to uh movies  
there's a movie theater that offers dollar movies on wednesday nights  
and so every couple of weeks we will go to the movies because that's how often they change the   movies  
and it's working out pretty well  
um we're spending more time together  
i feel like i'm a lot closer to the three that are still living at home than i ever was to the two that were living there before  
um in fact i found that i'm a lot closer with uh  
i have one son who's gone  
and i don't even know where he's at  
um he's taken off for parts unknown  
but uh yeah  

and uh my daughter is um has moved out of the house  
her and i get along a lot better now that she's moved out of the house  
and uh so it's it's it's it's been difficult to try to find the time  
and i think it's important that we do because uh i notice that uh when i had spent two years down in dallas down there they all have a uh a me kind of attitude  
and i noticed parents not spending time with their   children and and going out and doing things  
and you know i knew like the kids next door were all into cocaine  
and   you know it just you know  
i saw the family falling apart down   there  
yeah  
and so i think it's kind of important that i that i you know [nurture] the relationship i have with my children now  
and i'm doing my best   to keep that up  
yeah  
what's your been your experience  
um she didn't up until the last oh six months  
um  
she just recently   started working  
uh she worked a job until we moved to our new house  
and uh she quit that job because it was too inconvenient  
and   uh she starts a new job tomorrow which should take her out of the house about four days a week  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
certainly do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that sounds great  
i've i've noticed uh another thing um when i was younger my father was always working  
and  
yeah  
and uh you know he uh he worked a full time job and a part time job  
and i never saw him  
so i didn't have much of a role model to go by   you   know to learn how to be a a father and   a parent and that kind of thing because   i i can't ever remember playing ball with my dad or   catch with my dad or doing anything with my dad  
yeah  
and it  
if you don't have  
i don't  
i  
it's my feeling that if you don't have a role model to follow   then it's kind of tough  
you know everybody's not father knows best  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i   mean the the the capability to uh create children doesn't necessarily mean you have the uh the mental capacity to raise them  
and  
yes  
yes  
it's it's not easy  
i've uh you know i've helped out extremely uh  
well i can't say that  
but i've helped out   as best i could at home  
and uh as you know with five children it takes a lot of work  
even   if even if someone's home all the time there's still a lot of things that have to be done  
uh well now i work for texas instruments  
so   so i'm in computers  
yeah  
and so i've uh  
prior to that i uh i worked in a food store  
and uh you know  
uh   right  
yeah  
it uh it was uh it was a a smart move to make  
um   i was more intelligent than the position i was holding  
and uh   it was  
yes  
i i   felt that it certainly was  
i mean   i was smarter than most of the people that i was working for  
and uh you know every time something new came up i was explaining it to them  
and   uh i   had  
no  
yeah  
i uh  
yeah  
i uh started back to school  
in fact i was going to school while i was working fifty one hours a week  
and that's why i  
you know   if you're working if you're taking twelve credits at night and you're working fifty one hours a week there's not much time left to spend with  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well it it all paid off  
so uh you know i got my degree and got the better paying job  
and   and uh you know we i think as a family we're a lot better off  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well my goal is to try to retire by the time i'm fifty five  
great  
uh_huh  
well i'm  
okay  
do you have any children  
uh_huh  
i don't any children  
so i'm going to have difficulty with this topic  
but uh what kinds of things do you and your family do  
um   uh_huh  
um then your kind family is probably pretty rare now a days  
i don't see a lot of families fishing and doing things like that  
that's great  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's great  
i think a lot of families now they probably don't spend enough time together  
you know whether their parents are together or divorced they don't spend enough time together  
and and i think that contributes to a lot of why society is going downhill right now is because the basic family unit is being destroyed  
just simply because that time isn't spent just doing things like fishing  
and uh because that i think that when you spend a lot of time with each other you communicate a lot  
and the communication helps you build on your uh helps just just build your family  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's pretty to me that's pretty rare  
i like that  
whenever i do have children i i'm going to try as hard as i can to see that we spend a lot of time together you know  
maybe just even if we just rent a movie and watch it together just to make sure that everybody's not going out and doing and their her own thing all the time  
you know that's good sometimes because you need to you know get away  
but um i don't think you you should spend too much time outside at the [detriment] of of losing your the family unit  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and as i understand it  
i don't know  
i haven't experienced it  
but   you know kids these days are growing up so much faster  
and once they hit like ten or eleven or twelve you know you've pretty much lost them  
yeah  
so um do you think that you do you think that your family is pretty rare in that you do a lot of things or just the relationship between you and your daughter  
uh_huh  
what do you think is the key to to just bringing the american family back together  
what kinds of things do you think can  
yeah  
that's true  
um   huh i think that's the first thing a lot of people do  
and i know i'm guilty of it  
like i came in from work today  
first thing i did was turn the tv on   because i taped the stories from earlier today  
and i like to watch them  
but i think that's that is a big problem the television  
and it's it's too static you know  
it's something that you can do  
but there's no thinking involved no motion you know  
and i think think that's another reason why people are uh so health conscious now is because america's becoming really a couch potato society  
you know people aren't doing anything just sitting around you know no thinking involved  
and now i think i think people are trying to get out of that  
at least  
and that um there's a lot of um  
it's becoming really health conscious  
and that people are you know starting to look out for cholesterol and things like that trying to get out and workout more often and jog and walk and different things like that  
and that's probably good you know  
if you get your family involved in exercising and maybe playing tennis or something like that that also helps  
that's also something you know family oriented that everyone can do  
um  
uh_huh  
how how old is she  
um well she has  
yeah  
yeah  
you've still have a lot of time before she gets up in years  
that's good  
that's good  
um okay  
well it was very nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
uh yes  
i have a daughter  
oh okay  
um well we go out and fly [kites]  
and we go fishing  
and we go to movies  
and we go out to the farm  
and and uh she likes to pick flowers and look at birds  
well i'm divorced  
but that's what when she's with me that's what we do  
and we color a lot  
and i read her stories  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and even even when i was when i was uh living with her with did stuff then too  
so   yeah  
i know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
because then you never get to know them either  
they're all grown up  
and their  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're out doing stuff by that time  
yeah  
i really do because because i don't see many others  
and when whenever we go to the park or something sometimes on the [weekdays] we'll see other families  
but not usually on the weekends we don't see very many in comparison  
well i think they can turn off the t v for one thing   and and go out and do stuff you know  
because she always likes to do things whenever the t v off  
you know she'll forget about the t v completely  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
but when was uh when she was here last summer we played tennis  
but she hasn't brought her tennis [racquet] over lately  
when  
she's five  
we we just been hitting the ball on the ground  
she can't hit it in the air yet  
and then we kick the ball  
we play like soccer  
uh_huh  
yeah  
nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
what do you think are some current trends in uh the way families spend time together based on what you've seen  
yeah  
really  
are you newly married  
or  
yeah  
same same situation here i've been married about ten months  
so yeah  
i can i can i know what you mean  
yeah  
is he a hunter and a fisher and all that  
that's that's wild  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um from the people i've talked to i don't know if i should bring this into it  
but um a lot of the dads said that they would probably choose careers that are more um where they could manage their own schedule  
and   uh they could spend more time with their kids  
because they look back  
and you know they're all like um kind of [regretful] i think  
uh_huh  
yeah  
same here  
yeah  
at t i is that where you work  
it's really kind of sad  
some of the people that i work with they like when i worked on second shift um their their kids go to school during the day  
and then they wouldn't see them at night   because they would be in you know at work and the kids are all ready in bed  
and so it was kind of like they see their kids for fifteen minutes and the same with their spouses  
this relative may work even a [weirder] shift like weekends or something you know  
so it was really sad you know that a lot of families um have to well you know have to have dual income  
a lot of people choose to which is fine  
but uh you know then the kids kind of suffer  
uh_huh huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh  
i know  
unfortunately that's probably true  
um do you think the the parents spend quality time with their kids  
are do you think it's more like watching t v and stuff like that not really uh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's always that way until it's too late  
yeah  
it's true um  
what's what are some other questions they have  
i'm not sure  
i know my parents are growing up  
i guess they never spent much time watching t v  
in fact i've never seen my mom turn on the t v  
we didn't really have one  
yeah  
and and they spent a lot of time like outside with us and stuff  
but you know my dad had his own business  
and it was easier for them to do that  
but i i don't know  
it was i guess i didn't realize what a luxury it was at the time  
yeah  
yeah  
that's a good way to put it  
yeah  
that's a pretty good way to put it  
if i had kids well if you had kids what kind of things do you hope to do  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do volunteer work and   be in clubs and stuff  
yeah  
i agree  
i hope that happens in my case  
yeah  
yeah huh  
i know  
yeah  
and what's sad about that is day cares end up [instilling] values in your kids   that may not necessarily be consistent with yours  
yeah  
huh i well i don't even think we had  
i don't even remember them being around when we were little  
yeah  
sure is um  
well i guess we could ring this off since we we've exhausted all of our ideas  
we seem to agree  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
you too  
i wish you the best  
okay  
thanks  
bye bye  
um i i think that it's getting to where they're not spending time together  
um i think uh like in my situation today on a weekend when couples are supposed to spend time together my husband's been off doing his thing all day today  
and i've been off doing my thing all day  
and i haven't seen him since eight o'clock this morning  
so uh  
um two years  
it's it's really hard hard to find time to spend together when you both work full time and uh you both have hobbies that are different  
you know if you have hobbies that are the same then you know you can enjoy your hobby together  
but my husband and i have different hobbies  
no  
no  
he's a record collector and a hot wheels collector  
um so he was off today uh looking at at records  
so uh and i was off you know doing you know household type things   you know laundry  
and um did some shopping and stuff  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i think i think that would be the ideal situation  
i think that would be the ideal situation  
i think that a lot of people  
like in my case i i do shift work  
i don't i don't have that choice  
um i have to be at work at at x hour you know at just at at a certain hour  
and i can't it's not flexible  
um it it would be nice to be able to have flexible hours  
and and maybe after we decide to have kids i i might find a job that has flexible hours  
i i hope so anyway  
um but i would i don't know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i ideally it it would be nice to be able to just have like back in the old days   you know back like when i grew up   you know  
the the mom stayed home you know and raised the kids  
my mom didn't go back to work until i was in junior high school  
um so she was there pretty much all my you know [formative] years  
and that was nice  
and i liked that  
and i would hope that i would be able to give that to my kids  
but i think with the way the future is um economy wise  
i don't think it's going to be realistic  
i yeah i i think that i think very few spend quality time  
i think most of the time the kids are usually off watching cartoons or playing video games or stuff stuff like that  
i think that um uh most most kids that i see don't really they don't really value quality time  
until until they're older  
and then they look back  
oh really  
i i think kids now a days are raised on t v  
i mean that's that's almost like a   t v a surrogate parent  
and not a and not a very good one at that  
um i i hope to of course be able to teach them right from wrong  
i hope i hope to be able to spend um their growing up years being in the home you know not having to work   um and being able to do  
i i i know a lot of people who um um  
i work part time also  
and i  
a lot of people that i work for are mothers that stay home  
um and they they do a lot of volunteer work  
and they're real active in the community  
and um they do a lot of things with their kids that they wouldn't [ordinarily] be able to do if they were working  
and i'd i'd like to be able to do that  
i'd like to be able to stay home and be able to spend time with my kids  
yeah  
yeah  
but i think that's for the the few and far between  
i think that uh probably ninety percent of the   of the um parents out there are are probably working parents  
and i i don't i don't really see that that trend changing much  
if anything i think   there's going to be fewer and fewer uh single income families  
yeah  
exactly  
see i i never i don't even know what day care is really all about because i i never went to a day care center  
i never i never had that kind of experience  
yeah  
i i see it seems like that's that's a big trend you know in the last ten years  
day cares have have have popped up and become a lot more um a lot bigger part of of the kids' lives  
it's like a home away from home for a lot of them  
yeah  
i i think yeah i think this is a good closing point  
well it was really nice talking to you  
thanks  
you too  
uh bye  
bye bye  
yes  
tell me what are some of the things that you did with your children when they were growing up  
uh_huh  
i have two boys also  
uh my children are um are [swimmers]  
and so as they were growing up much of uh our um normal life outside of school and everything uh revolved around their swimming  
so in order to have a reason for being there especially as they got older i became involved in it too  
so we were always together at their meets  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the the boys tried those  
but they they did go in  
they started swimming when they were oh seven and eight  
and they really loved it  
and they're swimming both  
they'll be  
one is in college also [swims] in college  
and the other will continue to swim in college  
and they're fortunate  
they even made [nationals]  
and so we would drive up to see that when whenever it was reasonably close  
but we did a lot of things um  
and we tried to do things both together and individually with the children um  
we live near washington  
so we we would always go in for the museums  
that's always a big uh thing  
and one of my children is uh also a musician  
so um one of the things that we did with him a lot was to go either my husband or i or both of us would concerts with him  
and my other child um uh is in big into tropical fish  
so our whole family we take family trips to different places to visit fish stores or go to fish shows  
so  
i don't think we've we've missed a fish store on the entire east northeast coast of the united states  
uh_huh  
yes  
in fact it's funny  
our vacations have always been um uh uh as as they've gotten older  
when they were younger we would go to the beach  
but as they got older we tried to pattern our vacations where we would travel and do things   and that there would be a a feature each day   whether it would be going to  
one summer we uh we went up to new england  
and we went to the marble [quarries] up there and uh   to see that and another day fish [hatchery]  
and   so we did you know we did try  
and of course we learned too  
but uh and uh i don't know  
i uh  
when they were very young i did not work  
uh_huh  
and i i started working part time when they were in um junior high school and high school  
and now and i worked in the school system  
and now i work a full school day  
but that leaves me off on holidays and summers  
so it was a it was a you know  
i think they need me more   when they were older than they did when they were  
that's true  
yeah  
that's right  
um yeah  
that's that's for sure  
that's for sure  
what do you do you have any feelings as to the trends that you see  
uh_huh  
yeah  
when they you know  
it was funny  
i can remember  
and my mother and i have talked about it to how important it was when i came home from school  
it wasn't really conversation  
but there were always things that just [tumbled] out  
and uh uh granted the child doesn't always think that they're sharing it  
but it  
when they when it's not there they miss it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
i i i realize that  
but it's funny  
they don't always do it  
but occasionally they do  
and you want  
and when they do there's a reason for it that they're sharing it  
and you want to be at least i've wanted to be available when they for some reason they had they were bouncing something off of me   because it was something that was bothering them or they were concerned about  
and it was uh  
you just felt gee if i weren't here   how  
or or if my husband  
that's right  
yes  
that's exactly right  
uh but it has been um it's been interesting and particularly i i think because the society in which we live families are separated  
you don't have grandparents near by or aunts and uncles  
um i mean i grew up in a situation where on weekends we were always visiting relatives  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
see and we're  
uh that  
we i i grew up with you know  
every weekend there was some visiting somewhere  
um and it was sort of an italian family  
um but my children  
we although we have some relatives in the area that we we see we  
they don't  
it's not that constant   thing where you are on intimate terms with cousins  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i i just sort of think   yeah  
that  
the trend of of families and time  
where where parents are spending less time you don't have the families too to take up the gap  
and so the kids in some ways are are are suffering a little bit in that uh the model the role models that get the the the family issues that get discussed   and all these i think are very important parts of them growing up  
so we we try to to do it as well as we can  
we keep in close contact with grandparents and talk over the phone  
and cousins and aunts and uncles  
and we do  
but it's although it's not the same we are  
and that's part of i think teaching too is what a family is like  
because then how do they pattern their own  
yeah um  
that's  
yeah  
well we've always we have had this tradition um that we always go out before christmas and cut our own tree  
and that's always been a little bit of a tradition that we've had  
now this year it's was hard with our son now being in college  
so this was one thing that we um weren't able to do this year  
but we did that for from the time the children were young enough to realize what it was until uh our older son went away to college  
and we have advent calendars still   from the time that they came you know to  
oh  
oh yes  
that's  
uh_huh  
well ours is uh  
a friend   uh a friend of mine from denmark hand [appliqued] one for each child  
and i mean they look today as new as they did when they gave them to she gave them to us  
and there's a ring  
and you buy a present  
and you wrap the present up  
and i mean the presents have gone from the days when they were very young to a little box of band aids and an [eraser] and things  
to today where um sometimes i put a little gift if i see something that's uh occasionally a christmas tree decoration which they will save for their their future   to sometimes just money   uh pieces of candy  
so i think as they're getting in college i just  
for my older boy that was in college i put a dollar bill for each day which was the equivalent  
well it was the equivalent of a christmas present  
but it was uh and it was and you know it was fun  
but that's a tradition  
and they will those will be passed on to them when they   when they get married and leave  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
the  
yes  
and the broken families  
we um as i said living in an area of washington d c   we definitely see this uh  
and uh it's that grandmother figure not only raising her own children but raising um children from the streets too frequently  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
well this is a this is a  
uh this is in fact uh  
we've been studying this in our school that um this is one of the symptoms or not the symptoms  
it's one of the ways that young girls feel that they are [maturing]  
it's a [rite] of passage  
there we are  
oh well uh when they were little we did lots of reading and playing and going to parks   and things of that sort  
and   i had two boys  
they were both interested in things like model rockets  
so we would go to the football field and set off model rockets  
uh_huh  
oh well that's good  
um mine were not terribly sporting  
uh they both did t ball and soccer in grade school  
but neither one of them carried on uh the sports after that  
oh wonderful  
oh that's great  
yeah  
i  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh  
my goodness uh  
well we didn't have any uh avid uh activities like that  
they they were interested in a lot of things  
but nothing to quite that depth i guess  
but we would  
oh my goodness  
well we did go to things like [aquariums] and uh   uh natural history museums and [zoos] and all of those things that one does with kids uh  
uh_huh  
uh yes  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i started working half time when uh they were at the nursery school  
but i  
yet  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well uh i think it uh they need you in different ways  
you want to be around for the crisis and things like that  
and   but it's not quite so much the hand holding and peanut butter and jelly making  
well it  

the one trend i would say is that with so many more women choosing professional careers   there are fewer of them home in the afternoons  
and i don't think it needs to be the mothers  
but i think it would be nice if some of the parents would be around for a few more hours  
um  
yes  
i think that's true  
but i i also think that's at least in my experience [truer] of girls than boys  
even when i was there my boys didn't share all that much with me and certainly not to the extent i did with my mother  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
who would they ask  
or what would they do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i did too  
we were close to my uh maternal grandparents i mean just a few miles   and uh close enough to visit my [paternal] grandparents you know quite often  
they were fifty miles away  
but  
uh_huh  
um  
right  
well when my kids were quite small   uh we lived close to both sets of grandparents  
and they saw them a lot  
but they don't have any cousins uh  
or they didn't  
their uh their cousins are about ten years younger  
so uh they never played together or anything  
and there are only two of them  
and they didn't live in the same town  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well everyone makes it's own model  
but uh it seems that there should be some [continuity]  
and it's helpful to have uh things that become family traditions and that sort of thing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh well that's the kind of thing that they will remember though  
uh_huh  
ours finally [disintegrated]  
we had a felt one that was  
it was a christmas tree that had uh a little [trinket] for each day   that was [pinned] on the date  
and then you took it off and put it on the tree  
so at the end you had a decorated tree  
and it finally got [moth] eaten  
we threw it way last year  
how nice  
oh i see  
how cute  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i'm sure he appreciated that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you were saying what other trends are there  
and one just occurred to me because i was editing a book about it recently  
and that is the trend in a lot of uh lower class areas for the grandmothers to be raising the children  
and that's  
a lot of it is due to the fact that the mothers are on drugs  
uh_huh  
right  
well we had a [sociologist] at the center where i work who was writing a book on uh [multigeneration]   um [matriarchies] in a way   uh where the tradition in the family has been for a teenaged daughter to have a baby while she's still living at home with the mother  
and  
yeah  
um i'm from maryland  
and um i have one son who's almost sixteen months old  
are are you married or  
you are  
oh  
that's good  
uh what kind of things do you do  
oh  
oh yeah  
um yeah  
it's really nice uh  
my husband uh is working you know most of the time  
he's working long hours  
but uh   i'm staying home  
uh i'm just working a couple days a month  
and um  
um we spend a lot of time at the playground  
and we go to the zoo  
and we go  
and we  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm a nurse  
so yeah  
so it's it's it's real easy to work out my schedule   you know to uh get in to to still stay in with that   an and to have enough time to spend with matthew  
he he's uh just now really starting to to get interested in a lot of things  
so um  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's right  
and i think a lot of people are um are turning to well i think i think a lot of people are realizing that  
but still there are so many people that are you know have their careers first  
and   it's uh i think it's really hurting uh the kids you know  
but  
i know  
that's why i like to to to work a couple days  
i think it's uh   it gives me a break  
most of the time at home  
yeah  
uh we had started out like that  
and um i think that was really ideal uh  
it's  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
it's difficult  
but  
uh_huh  
i'm i've i've lived here forever  
so  
yeah  
i i live in germantown  
and uh  
are you where are you from  
in dallas  
oh  
oh  
okay  
oh  
so that explains  
well um i don't know  
i uh we we do a lot of things on the weekends together the family  
but uh as far as during the week it's it's usually uh you know just my son and i  
and we're  
uh he he works for [coca] cola  
so he uh he manages a plant out here  
an and it takes a lot of time  
but um it you know  
we take walks   and go to the library   and try to fill our day with things like that  
but um  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
right  
that's good  
that's good  
i know my husband was real uh  
in the beginning when he uh he was transferred to a a larger plant  
and he uh he works about an hour and a half away from here from our home  
and uh so it takes him a little bit of time  
and i'm not able to work during the week uh because of that  
he was i was working in the evening  
and he was coming home  
and i i could go to work  
but uh   their relationship uh when i was able to work in the evenings uh really grew  
he you know  
just the time that they were spending together  
i think it it really it really helped to have that time together  
uh-oh yeah  
he has uh he has seven other brothers and sisters  
and they have we have thirteen grand  
well his parents have thirteen grandchildren  
so it's uh you know there's a lot of kids in the family  
and and he really enjoys it  
but uh right now it's kind of a difficult time  
but  
and and the cost of living here is just so tremendously you know outrageous  
um it's difficult uh to do it any other way  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
at least i i just consider myself blessed that i can stay home  
it uh  
i know  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
it has  
i believe that too  
and i think uh the kids are where they need to you know  
they need to really focus on the children in the in this country  
no  
i didn't i didn't even really think about it that much i mean you know  
i i was aware vaguely aware of it  
but um i didn't it wasn't really that important to me  
and uh  
oh it it really does  
i  
just the whole uh you know  
seeing how you really are are are forming this   you know the mind  
that's right  
yeah  
or or they just put it in the back of their mind and let it slide  
i i've seen a lot of people just say well you know he'll learn everything when he gets into   uh you know  
but it um  
i i know  
even just this first year that i've been with uh my son here um he's  
i can just see how much   of of a difference it makes staying home with him   instead of uh  
yeah  
that's true  
well it's nice talking to you too  
okay  
where are you from tina  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i have i have two children  
i have a seven year old and a three year old  
and uh so i try to spend as much time as possible with them  
well um we do a lot of things with them you know  
taylor my youngest is  
or my oldest is in school  
and so she has a lot of school programs and things like that  
was it a big change in your life to uh   have a child  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
what do you do during those those days  
well you said you said you worked a couple days a month though  
what do what do you do  
oh are you  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i understand that  
yeah  
they really grow up quick especially at that early age  
but my my wife was uh  
she worked part time when my oldest was was little  
and now she's staying home all the time  
but uh that worked out really well because it's a big transition i think to have children  
you know to go from you know nothing you know  
if you want to do something every night that's fine  
but when you have children it doesn't work that way anymore  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree with you  
i i i think that my wife leaned that way  
and i'm really glad she did  
and you know i'm glad she's staying home  
but you know i know there are some days when she   she wishes she was back at work  
yeah  
yeah  
well see that's that's why i'm glad my wife did too  
because she worked either two to three days a week  
and that got her out of the house  
and yet she'd get to spend you know three or four days with  
yeah  
yeah  
and so  
yeah  
i do to  
i agree  
but then when you start having two of them it's you know a little bit tougher   because you've got to make a little more money to make that payoff and stuff  
are are you from the maryland area  
really  
um uh i'm in dallas texas  
yeah  
so uh i'm i've lived here like eight years or so  
my wife's from fort worth  
but  
yeah  
i work for texas instruments  
yeah  
that explains it doesn't it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
what's your husband do  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yeah  
i'm sure it does  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
what uh  
my wife did some teaching at like uh like a private tutoring place   a [sylvan] learning center this year  
and so that that got me to to be able to spend more time with the kids at night and stuff   you know because normally if if they need something they just go to mom   no matter what it is  
i mean i i'm perfectly capable of doing it for them  
but   it's so much easier to go to mom  
i guess they get used to it  
so  
but you know we'd go to the library and do things like that  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it really does  
because i think you know you grow closer  
was your uh was your husband i mean naturally a child  
i mean had he been around children  
or  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i understand  
i'm i you know  
it's it's hard because you know  
then you're not getting to spend as much time with at home  
i mean your husband is not getting to spend as much time at home as he'd want to  
so yeah  
that that's a tough situation  
but then then again you know some  
you got to do what you got to do   you know to get along too  
so  
uh_huh  
well like i said my wife normally feels that way  
there are days when uh i come home and she says here take these kids  
i'm getting out  
so she's she's had about enough during those days  
but   but for the most part i you know i've really feel like that's led  
the way that you know  
like what you said with the cost of living and everything i think a lot of people can't afford to get by on just one salary an   and won't  
and so i think that's tended to lead to a decline in in families and family values especially  
and i really think that that's one of the problems the nation's facing that you know we need to do something about  
but i don't know what  
yeah  
yeah  
would would you have said that a couple of years ago do you think  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's amazing how your whole focus on life changes after you've had a child  
uh_huh  
well you know in the next year or so you'll see so many instances where you know he'll [mimic] something that you've done  
and you see you know everything i'm doing he's learning from  
and and you think if i wasn't here he'd be learning that from a baby sitter or from a day care  
you know that's how they're developing their patterns  
and i think a lot of people either don't care or don't realize it you know  
that's  
yeah  
yeah  
eventually  
yeah  
it's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
plus plus i think it becomes part of part of you too  
i mean you get to stay home  
i mean it's not just for him  
but it's also for you because you're both kind of bonding together there too i think  
so  
well it's been nice talking to you  
okay  
good luck  
okay  
good bye  
well wayne i uh feel very strongly about parents doing things with their children and making time available even sometimes when time isn't available  
how do you feel about it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
we went through this with our children and now with our grandchildren  
and i've always tried to do things with them uh like when you're at the little league helping out even though i'm not a good athlete myself  
i was able to help the coach in in just controlling the kids if nothing else  
and we've always uh-oh tried to take our children and now at this age our grandchildren to see and do things that otherwise they might not be able to  
i think that's just part of their overall educational process is to get out and see and do things  
yeah  
yeah  
and so it's uh  
we have uh lived several places around the u s  
and we have where we've lived we've taken them to see and do things of interest and of historical significance in the area  
like when we lived in tennessee we we took them to washington d c to see all the capitol and and things like that when they were small  
and it's just uh it's helps i think the children to when they're learning in school to say well i've been there and i've seen that  
yeah  
yeah  
so uh that's the type  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
we've uh   gone through that uh  
i remember my parents didn't do all those type things  
and so i made a special effort with my children to do things like that  
and even now with my grandchildren i feel it's a very important thing to be done  
yeah  
yeah  
well i can remember one of the things i'm most proud of is uh when my son was  
i think it was in the sixth grade  
they had to write a a little brief autobiography of themselves and about what they had done and what they wanted to do  
and i was very proud when my son wrote that he wanted to uh have a family and be able to help coach little league and do things like his dad had done with him  
a real point of pride with me  
yeah  
excuse me it sounds like we both have colds  
oh  
oh well we're  
yeah  
well i'm sitting here on the ninth floor of an office building on the north side of dallas texas  
so we're kind of far apart here  
this is a very interesting program i i heard about here on this  
and when i signed up for it it uh looked like it could be make a real contribution in participating  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm an accountant presently working as a contractor [liquidating] a failed savings and loan  
so trying to work myself out of a job  
but it's been an interesting uh roughly oh nine months here  
and uh   again this is our home area  
we've lived here about seventeen years  
and it's uh  
we enjoy living here  
it's where we originally started out  
and we've lived up north for a while in chicago and over in tennessee  
so wound up back about two hundred miles aware away from where we started out  
well uh that's about all i can think to talk about right now  
it's been a pleasure talking with you  
thank you  
bye  
well yeah  
i feel much the same way  
i've uh two kids right now  
one is two and a half  
and one's nine months  
and uh that age of course everything you do they're trying to learn to do  
and so uh it's important for you to spend time doing the things that you want them to learn you know that that they need to learn at the age you know   reading and uh reading and playing nice with others and that sort of thing  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it certainly does because uh you know the things in the books seem so dead to the kids you know unless they've actually been there or whatever  
because i remember our family well we we we went everywhere  
and uh seeing new england and uh being on plymouth rock and stuff like that was   really made the whole thing more uh visual  
and we could uh read the things in the history books and understand what they said when it was like we need food we need to raise food quickly   because this place gets very cold very soon  
right  
because if uh kids don't look up to you or or can't feel they can spend time with you they're going to find someone else  
and uh you know nowadays there's a lot of people out there that you don't want your kid to [emulating] or whatever  
yeah  
that is nice  
yeah  
well it's um well it's uh ten o'clock here in falls church virginia  
so that the only reason i'm home is because i'm home with a cold  
and the wife says well you need something to do  
talk to a guy on the phone  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
i'm an electrical engineer by trade   uh here in virginia  
likewise we uh we do some projects every now and then  
we like to get support from uh other other companies as well  
oh  
yep  
okay  
right  
bye bye  
okay  
we can start  
hi  
i have four  
how many do you have  
okay  
okay  
well no  
because mine are all grown  
so the topic for me  
i i can only relate now to my grandchildren  
i do keep my  
uh i do take care of my youngest granddaughter uh most every saturday  
uh my daughter and her husband work saturdays  
my daughter is uh uh doing a schedule of uh twenty four hours on the weekend  
but she gets paid for forty  
and dave is uh in supervisory work  
and he has to work almost every saturday  
so  
uh  
she's three  
yes  
she's she's little  
she's says how are you doing grandma today  
whoa  
oh no  
no  
no  
no  
she's my baby  
she's my baby  
yeah  
she was a miracle baby  
yeah  
she really was  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
they do  
uh_huh  
they really do  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
that's   really  
that's really wonderful  
yeah  
yeah  
oh that's marvelous  
well they keep you hopping i'm sure  
well i know uh that uh one of the ladies i know they are very involved with their little girl  
and and i think it's excellent because she's getting qualified quality time   for uh her musical uh talents   her sports abilities  
and uh i think because she is uh the only child that they concentrate uh they would like to have more  
but that hasn't been uh possible  
and uh she's tried many uh avenues  
and and so now it's just you know that she's kind of resolved herself that yes this is going to be the only one  
and they're focusing on all of her uh welfare  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
oh how wonderful  
that's wonderful  
well that's wonderful  
oh they are  
no  
yeah  
you're  
now i think   everything is doing doing doing out of the house   which can be very hectic  
yeah  
it wasn't so  
uh_huh  
you have to look on that on the uh positive side of that  
yes  
it is  
it's just a different lifestyle  
yes  
uh  
my uh second grandson is in a [cappella]  
and i know what you're talking about when he's involved you know the children are involved   in that  
and he's been  
he has traveled  
and they have won awards  
so i  
know   yes  
uh_huh  
and i know where you're coming from  
and it's it's very nice  
i think uh uh those type of children uh that are involved in things like that their uh goals are going to be set higher than the average child that are not participating in things  
right  
going to  
yeah  
a a a team effort  
yes  
that   that's wonderful  
that's really is   nice to have in your background that you know then you can you're you can be very flexible  
and uh there's less uh friction involved in relationships when you add that skill   of [teamwork]  
and uh i mean a lot of people that are adults are having to go back and learn those basics when our children are already learning that  
and i think it's a step a a giant step of progress i really do  
so uh i  
the best of   well uh cathy i think if you look to the word of god   and uh think on the things that are pure and lovely  
and uh keep your mind off of negative things  
and keep your mind on positive things  
and and stress that to your children  
and uh even if they're even if they're discouraged tell them that that's just a passing moment   and to dwell on those things that are uh not negative and that are positive things in their life  
and i think you'll see a lot of growth in uh in their ability to uh control their thought pattern  
and and when you employ the word of god there's nothing as powerful as the word of god  
oh absolutely  
that's right  
uh_huh  
right  
well if she looks   if she looks at it as you suggest that that that's that she can give her her talent back to the lord for his glory   and she can look at it that way and and uh that's  
okay  
hi  
how many children do you have  
oh four  
okay  
okay  
well i have two children and uh two [stepdaughters]  
so we have four altogether too  
yeah  
are you are you running [ragged] these days  
oh they are  
oh  
oh well   good  
[impart] me some wisdom catherine  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
how old is your granddaughter  
oh so she's a little one  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh  
are you surviving  
is she your oldest child  
oh  
oh  
was she  
yeah  
oh  
oh that's nice  
now do your other grandchildren live in the dallas area  
do you get to see them  
how nice  
what a treat  
you know being from plano you know i know so very few people who have extended family in town  
i'm real jealous when i hear that somebody has a grandma around   because   we don't  
and  
it is  
it is  
and you know just so that they get to know their grandparents but also for help  
we don't we don't have that luxury  
but we have lots of friends  
and and everybody tends to be in the same boat  
so we we trade off a whole lot with friends and you know run here and run there  
we're right smack [dab] in the middle of baseball season right now  
and we have three playing baseball  
so  
they definitely do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
and she [devotes]  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well our kids you know  
uh my daughter uh sings with younger generation i don't know if you've ever heard of them  
there they're a singing group here in plano  
and they're part of the uh plano children's civics civic chorus  
and they're going to washington d c next december uh to sing for president bush at the white house at christmas time  
isn't that neat  
yeah  
so   so we have been really up to our eye balls in fund raising and trying to get uh  
yeah  
it is  
it is  
so you know and then she plays softball  
and my son plays baseball  
and my stepdaughter plays softball  
so we we tend to do a lot of running  
things are very different nowadays than when i grew up  
and i'm sure when your children grew up you didn't you know  
i don't remember doing all these things  
i certainly don't remember my parents running me here and there and supporting me in all these things  
but we had more i guess family time alone   where we did nothing   which was good  
yeah  
yeah  
it can be  
and and sometimes i you know i kind of long for the good old days when   we didn't do all these running  
but on the other hand we just love watching the kids play and getting to know the other parents  
and   we've had a lot of fun with that too  
it's just different  
yeah  
it's just very different  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
it is very nice  
well i think so  
and and i think they've learned a whole lot about being part of a team whether the team is your singing group your band your   your sports team   you know you all have to pull together  
and uh  
yeah  
and so i've been real pleased with that too  
i think they've learned some real good life skills uh you know being   involved in all those things  
and uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
give me some wonderful advice catherine  
what is the best advice of [mothering] that you know  
besides don't sweat the small stuff  
uh_huh  
oh that's good that's real good advice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
absolutely  
well i would agree with that  
we're also real active in our church  
and my kids do an awful lot with that  
[allyson] sings in the choir  
i told her that's a gift from god  
and you need to return that back  
and you owe you owe that   back to god because he's given you that ability and that talent  
and   and that's real nice  
i'm real proud of her  
i'm equally proud of her when i see her in church as i am when i see her performing  
you know that's that's real neat  
uh_huh  
do you have children  
oh  
i have one that's a freshman in high school a daughter and a son who's a sixth grader in a middle school  
and i spend most of my time carpooling  
the story of my life  
my kids are involved in sports  
my daughter has played basketball for six years  
and my son plays football  
i  
my rule is that they can't play a sport the same time of the year   because there's just not enough of me to drive them around everywhere  
yes  
i know  
i know  
the insurance  
yes  
my son   is in both band and scouts too  
oh gee  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we found this oriental tile game called [mah] [jongg]  
have you  
well it's really fun  
um one of my neighbors moved here from memphis  
and a lot of them played it  
and she started a group going in the neighborhood  
and my kids wanted to learn how to play it  
and it's more fun with four people  
and it's a game that none of their friends know how to play  
and they both enjoy it  
so if they want to play they have to play with mom and dad  
so uh we play that a lot of them  
and uh we like to go miniature golfing and to movies  
we have family that lives outside of the state  
so we go visit both sets of grandparents and and take car trips  
so that  
and my husband and son go camping   with scouts mostly  
my daughter and and i hate camping so we go shopping  
so that just kind of works out real well  
and um i'm a writer by profession  
and my daughter enjoys writing too  
so a lot of times she and i will travel to writers conferences together  
yeah  
so   yeah  
so that gives us special time together too  
and she's on the [yearbook] staff and things like that  
so i can help her with that  
and she gives me ideas for my writing too  
so  
yep  
yeah  
right  
my husband has taken us to work with him  
and we still don't know what he does  
so we just say he travels a lot  
so that kind of covers it  
yes  
yeah  
he's been on temporary duties where he's been gone nine months  
yes  
so those are the real killers  
if he's just gone  
he's gone three weeks right now  
and that's that's mild compare to the big ones  
so we just you know i just do the carpooling and and handle whatever needs to be done  
and something major   always needs to be done  
so   you just have to to handle it until he gets home  
and hopefully he won't have too many surprises when he gets home  
uh yes  
uh we have two sons  
uh one's a freshman in college  
and one's a sophomore in high school  
and you  
okay  
oh  
yes  
yes  
uh   yeah  
uh well uh yeah  
we've spend a spend a did spend a lot of time uh  
it really helped when the uh older one was old enough to get his license and could uh   drive around by himself although that brought in a whole other set of problems  
but uh i uh  
yeah  
for one thing  
uh but yeah  
we uh we do  
but our two had had uh totally different interests of  
but there was not much uh overlap as such  
the the older one is not was not at all into uh sports for the most part  
uh he participated  
band and and uh scouts were his two big things  
and uh   and the yeah younger one is uh uh the sports one  
and the whatever season it is he's he's playing   although football is really his favorite  
yeah  
so uh yeah  
we spend a lot of time uh uh carpooling and uh you know and then trying to be uh up as much as possible with anything that they that they do  
but then uh we also didn't do spend uh time with them trying to trying to  
uh you know just family time  
uh we had a  
at a fairly young age we started teaching them to play games and card games and so forth  
and and uh uh but we didn't uh do it as much or as often as uh i would have liked to  
i would like to do that as a as a family and   and some t v watching  
what about you  
yeah  
i've i've heard of that  
i've never actually never actually played it  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
so do we  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
oh now that's neat  
yeah  
no  
we've never had anything   like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh well good  
well i you know in terms of in terms of any sorts of trends i you know  
obviously things are different from for me than and my children than when i was growing up  
i i i grew up on a farm uh in iowa  
and uh you know the whole family was around the the whole time  
and then what my father did was was uh you know obvious to me  
and i i helped out with it  
but uh although i have brought my boys into to see where i work it's not that easy  
and it's it's certainly not at all common  
and they they just don't really have that same idea  
so they uh  
it's a it's a whole different uh kind of thing there then uh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that makes it hard though for in terms of you know family time with   with him  
yeah  
i've been lucky in that respect that i don't uh don't travel too much  
oh  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
okay  
well just to let you know i have uh two uh children of my own  
i've got two boys uh one four year old and one two years old  
so i'm just starting out  
wow  
wow  
that's quite a spread  
that's great  
well i guess uh in one of the things that that i like to do with my boys when uh when i get home is i like to try and spend a lot of time with them  
you know they're not very old  
so they couldn't do a whole lot yet  
but they like to uh spend time with me  
we just oh just do various things nothing really  
they like to be outside as much as possible  
right uh  
but you know the weather's trying to turn now  
so  
yes  
i   i'm i'm in uh dallas  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
what well  
one of the things i've noticed is one of the trends i've i've noticed is that uh it's always too easy to just plop your kids down in front of the t v and let them watch movies or or play video games or something  
sure  
sure  
that's okay  
no  
it's okay  
uh so that was the thing that i i noticed that i know a lot of people lot of friends that we have they have a tendency to do the same thing  
and one of the things we try to do is we try to avoid doing that as much as possible   although it really is very easy to do that type of thing just plop them down in front of the t v and let them be uh entertained that way  
and uh seeing as you've got   some older children i i'm wondering how did you handle that   when they were growing up  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
um  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh that's nice  
that's great  
that's great  
i know we'd i'd like to get into do more camping and outings and things  
and i think we probably will soon as the boys get a little   bit older  
but uh you know for right now they don't you know  
just getting out in the front and just being outside is good for them  
because they like   just being outside  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that's true  
you don't see many leaves around dallas  
uh_huh  

oh yes  
i have two boys who are twenty eight and twenty four   and a daughter who is twelve  
yes  
same husband everything  
uh but  
uh_huh  
if it's not raining  
are are you down here in texas  
oh  
okay  
yeah  
you know what i meant with rain huh  
oh  
okay uh  
what  
yeah  
i i have  
can you hold on just a  
i have to answer a business phone  
i hate to do it on this call  
good morning a r e this is [arlene] [lister]  
it was just a recorded message   on our business phone anyway  
i'm sorry  
keep going  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well there there was not nearly as much of it  
in fact i i think things were were quite a bit different  
uh when my my big kids were were little uh you know all the mothers were home  
you know the the kids got up in the morning and ate breakfast and [poked] around  
and then when they felt like it they went out to play you know   when they were were little like that  
and uh i i think it's gotten uh very different  
when my second one was little they were coming out with sesame street   which he started watching  
and other than that i mean there was basically there was not educational t v  
or   uh you know you got some cartoons  
and that was it  
but they they were never that interested in it anyway  
they'd rather i mean they'd take their trucks out in the backyard you know   go out and play and stuff  
but we always did uh-oh just you know to the park for walks   and to the zoo and museum  
we did a lot of stuff like that   with uh with our kids  
and course when they got bigger uh they were both quite into sports  
and and   you know so whatever you know they would do we'd go along with  
and uh uh a girl is very different  
we have  
a girl would like you to spend time with her going shopping  
so they're very very different  
but uh  
kind of the same thing our you know  
she now  
lot of time spent with her  
she's so busy  
is uh   you know going to you know  
like last night was a band concert  
and she plays on her school volleyball team and uh stuff like that  
but uh we we still uh-oh like to pack up you know just go someplace for the day   or uh you know just stuff like that  
one of our older kids now is going to graduate school down at college station  
so that's uh  
we go down there fairly often you know for a weekend for you know family get [togethers] and stuff like that  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
yeah  
i i think our kids just always dearly loved that you know play bounce the ball or   just uh  
course when our big ones were little we lived up north you know  
and this time of the year it it the fun thing was to go out and [swoosh] around in the leaves you know  
so   you know so it's it's very different  
and and uh you know we also come winter time we'd stick them on [sleds]  
and   uh we had a pond across the street  
and and from little on you know  
i'm  
it's it's so different down here where you go take lessons to learn to ice [skate] or something  
you know when our kids were little you you got them a pair of [skates]  
okay  
my children are all grown up  
uh_huh  
i'll bet  
i'll bet it is  
what is the favorite thing you do with your children  
uh_huh  
you just watch them play huh  
i i tried it once or twice  
but i didn't feel like i was very good at it either  
my grandson got me to one day  
but  
different worlds  
and how do you get to another world you know  
and i i don't even know what they're talking about  
do you  
yeah  
i know when our kids were growing up our we were big into water sports  
we had a boat  
and they all skied  
and in the summer we spent most weekends on the lake with them skiing  
and they always took other friends with them  
and we had a lot of fun doing that  
but   i had all girls  
so we didn't do too much sports wise  
i find my grandchildren are very involved in soccer and baseball  
and   little boys do all of those things  
but  
uh_huh  
i'll bet you really are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well when mine were real little they all played soccer  
but   you know that was just for a couple of years   when they were pretty small for girls  
and then they got more interested in other things  
i'm not sure that they would admit it at that age that it was boys  
but i think that's probably what it was  
uh_huh  
but they  
but you enjoy them  
i think the older mine get the more i enjoy them  
uh_huh  
and i mean i didn't  
it wasn't that i didn't like them   when they were little  
but the older they got i enjoyed them as teenagers  
and now that they're each  
of course three girls they're each becoming the they've all become women in themselves that it's been neat to watch them  
how  
what kind of mothers they are  
what kind of   wives you know  
how they do things  
and  
two of them live real close to me  
so we we spend a lot  
most of our time spent with them is they come over to eat   and bring the kids  
and we play with the kids you know  
but uh  
where oh  
we go camp out  
they camp out  
and we spend weekends at the in the country with them   quite a bit  
but   as far as doing any activity now that the grand kids are here we all just stay around the house mostly  
it's too much effort to go somewhere with all the kids  
uh_huh  
they'll always remember it too  
i hear mine saying well i remember mother and daddy used to take us to do so and so  
i need to take my boys to do this or that you know  
and i remember the year we went to disneyworld as quick as my kids are big enough we're going to go to disneyworld   you know  
yeah  
they just really can't wait to be able to take their kids where they had fun  
but  
do you work  
uh_huh  
it really does  
the time you have with them has to be quality time then  
i imagine that they have uh some a lot of homework too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well there's just so many things to do with them nowadays though  
and especially if they're active kids  
like you say you bowl  
oh  
okay  
well now see i've got two children  
and uh they're  
one is uh just turned to be a teenager  
and the other one is on his way  
so  
i uh i'm a single parent  
so i think it makes it more difficult for me to uh you know find time with my my children since i   work  
and then of course take care of the house and all this good kind of stuff  
uh so it's a real uh it's a real problem for me  
yeah  
uh the the thing that we like to do the most is to watch t v together  
and uh the kids like to play nintendo  
but i'm no good at it  
so i don't like to play  
that's right  
that's right  
me either  
yeah  
they talk about these different levels and stuff  
and i've never got off of level one  
yes  
i i know  
i agree with you  
so uh   but no  
the other thing i think we like to go to the movies too  
that's  
yeah  
that's a that's a neat thing  
so i guess we're all in uh you know movie uh [fanatics] or whatever around here  
so we like to do those kind of things  
uh_huh  
oh how neat  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
see i have a son  
and uh you know it's football in the fall and and baseball in the spring  
and and   it's one activity after another  
i i'm constantly going back and forth  
yeah  
and my daughter has uh tennis  
so it's between tennis and and bowling  
my  
i bowl  
so you know we're pretty active as a sports you know   in in the family  
so   it it's really neat  
uh_huh  
boys  
oh yeah  
i i know that uh my daughter uh even though she goes out with the the sports and everything uh yeah she likes to watch the football for uh the kids  
i'm sorry  
uh that was a cat that hit the telephone  
get away cat  
gosh  
i guess it's why they wanted to do it on this type of telephone because there's all kind of activity that goes on  
but uh yeah  
my uh my kids are they're starting to grow up you know  
it's not going to be too many more years before i uh uh you know they'll be gone  
and and uh there won't be as many activities  
do you uh  
yeah  
i i agree with you  
i i do  
i'm so glad they're out of the that young real young   age  
and the babies  
right  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's so true  
well do you do the do your daughters live close where you can go out  
oh good  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh   oh yeah  
that's true  
oh yes  
oh yes  
boy i know especially when they grow up like that  
so i'm trying to these last five or six years i'm trying to make them really special and   uh very precious since that's uh about the only time we've got left  
yes  
yes  
absolutely  
i i think so too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
there we go  
i know i know they can't wait  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
so well i still got a few more years  
so i'm uh i'm hanging onto those and doing as much activity as i can with them  
yes  
uh_huh  
i sure do  
and i work full time  
so uh it it  
that cuts into our free time right there  
that's right  
that's right  
and uh vacations are very special for us and activities  
yeah  
yeah  
you know this being a school night and stuff  
so uh it's it's in the same old you know routine of uh you know doing homework and you know trying to talk between all of that and and uh the other activities that we all have  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh let me see i've got two children  
one is uh  
both preschoolers  
one is two  
and one is uh four  
so and uh this is my first year off  
and i've always worked uh from the time that they were little  
and so i decided to hold off on my job for a while and stay home with them and spend some more time with them which i hadn't been doing  
so  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's what i was doing before  
i was teaching for richardson school district  
and uh it just seemed like it took a lot of my time with them being so little  
and it's really hard  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
and that's what was kind of what where we were you know  
we i really didn't have to work  
but i felt like i really wanted to work  
and i felt i also felt like boy i was sure missing a lot  
and they were growing so fast  
and you know it's like do i really need to work you know  
and i and it that choice was there  
i really didn't have to  
and you know so i did have that advantage there  
but it's different staying home too you know  
it's an adjustment to make also  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
kind of goes on  
they do what they see you know  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
plus you teach middle school  
so i'm sure that  
you are really you really  
boy oh boy  
i taught early childhood  
so i had the little ones  
and uh you know i saw it there too  
and you you know you just oh it's it's kind of an eye opener  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think you're right  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i agree  
i i know exactly what you're saying  
uh_huh  
well i think that's wonderful  
my children are in college  
but i teach school  
and i teach uh middle school age children  
and so i see a lot of uh variation in what happens when kids are at home  
uh i have taught school ever since my children were little  
but the advantage of teaching school is your hours are closer to your children's  
and your holidays are too  
so teaching i think is a a good career to have and still be able to spend a lot of quality time with kids  
uh_huh  
right  
well with them being as young  
it was much much harder when mine were young  
and uh i really didn't have that much of a choice because my husband was trying to finish his uh college work   and his master's degree   and so forth  
and so it was a matter of somebody had to have a job  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
it certainly is  
we  
well i think that uh we need to spend more family time together with with children today  
uh we made a point to spend a lot of quality time  
and the activities that we were involved in were the activities the kids were   involved in you know like uh through scouting or   you know anything like that  
we participated  
and uh we always made a point to have breakfast together and supper together now  
when  
yeah  
when uh the kids were in high school it was harder to always have supper together  
but we did always have breakfast together  
so we we had supper together as much as possible  
but when it wasn't feasible you know we kind of kept a master calendar   and when it wasn't feasible well that was understandable  
but   uh we've always tried to spend time to talk and uh have some time together time  
and we sat around the table  
we didn't sit in front of a t v or   that kind of thing  
so i think that's been important because we do have a close family  
and even though the kids are basically uh grown uh they still like to sit down at the table and us all eat together when they're here and   uh have spoken before of they want that kind of you know situation for them when you know and their children when they marry and have children  
uh_huh  
that's right  
they model  
and with the dysfunctional families today i'm sure with a as a schoolteacher also you see   what happens to these kids   when these families never communicate or they're dysfunctional as far as the between uh-oh second families uh one parent families or   all those kinds of problems that they have  
and then you see them magnified in the children  
oh boy  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
it is  
it is  
and i think most teachers realize the value of quality time with children  
and i think we make a point to do that  
because we see we see all the time the outcome of not doing that  
and i think if we weren't so interested in children in child care then we wouldn't be teaching anyway  
so  
uh i wish we could reach more of the rest of the world  
i think uh the major problems in education are not what's happening in the schools  
it's what's happening in the families  
and uh they expect us to you know have create [miracles] at school and fix all the problems and take over the roles of the parents as well as that of the teachers  
and you get to a point where it's completely impossible  
and you just get more and more frustrated  
and yet you feel for the the kids  
you do the best you can  
but  
i say arlington texas now because i talked one night to somebody in arlington virginia  
oh do they have one  
oh i didn't know that  
well i learned something already  
how much time do you spend with your children  
oh  
what  
oh yeah  
well mine is uh down at u t austin at college  
and the other one is in high school  
so you do spend less time then  

they want to be with their friends  
how old are your kids  
are they married or what  
oh boy you have a lot of kids  
oh well that's kind of nice though  
you   you shouldn't be   [lonesome] on a holiday huh  
well that's true  
they have to see their other parent i guess   too  
i know  
what  
i know  
that's what my mother said one time  
right  
no  
that's true  
and if they force them to you know   that's not good either  
well do they all live in the area  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
golly  
how did they end up so far away  
uh_huh  
those are the youngest ones  
uh_huh  
boy that's those are a long way  
how  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
vermont  
so they wanted to make their homes there  
my goodness  
are they are those two married  
they uh just working up there or going to school or what  
uh_huh  
oh they do   especially if they if they're meant to i think  
i mean i've got a daughter that's a sophomore at u t  
and i'm i'm going to u t a right now myself  
so   it's never too late  
right  
especially in some of these schools around here i think they have about twenty percent older students  
oh yeah  
i've seen some people that are really quite up there you know   they look like in their very late sixties  
and i say   that's great why not you know  
no  
oh yeah  
you're really ready to learn finally  
i mean i don't know why i even went to college when i was seventeen  
it was a complete waste of money  
right  
right  
we  
right  
and uh  
no  
we don't go out drinking beer till three and try to go to class in the morning  
we're past yeah we're past that age  
we know what we can do  
uh_huh  
what was it uh  
what do the trends in families  
and do we approve what other   families do  
that's right  
a change  
i was going to say the same thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
are going to have to solve some of the problem huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh my  
yeah  
well and plano texas rather than plano illinois  
yes  
they do  
yeah  
well let's see  
the three questions are what uh  
very little   because they're grown  
they're grown and gone  
huh  
yeah  
because they don't want to know they almost don't want to know us  
uh yes  
i have uh two married two and then two almost married  
and the other two i'm not sure  
well   two two two uh uh for sure are single  
yeah  
we have between the spouse and myself we have six  
because i came with a split family  
and   she had  
well no  
there is so much of them are gone  
and they're doing their own things  
and   and a lot of times they they've got you know uh when the holidays  
yeah  
and sometimes they want to do their own thing  
so   sometimes it's just spouse and me  
and and you know what  
sometimes that's okay  
because  
you know right  
because who says that they just must got to come over to see us all the time   for the holidays  
yeah  
that becomes a [drudgery]  
and   well let's see  
got of the six we've got four around here  
uh you know well we're talking like north texas  
and then one is in vermont uh [montpelier]   [montpelier] vermont  
and the other one is in [everett] washington  
well that is that's the the my little pair   and my second marriage  
uh and uh  
yeah  
well the  
the the the the fourth and fifth child of the   of the of the uh six are the two that are scattered like that  
and   well they wanted to go uh  
j r my my my last son   or my middle son excuse me fell in love with washington state  
and the the the third daughter fell in love with uh uh vermont  
so  
yeah  
that's where they've gone to make their homes  
no  
well uh let's see  
yeah  
i guess you'd say j r is working going to trying to go to school  
i wish to god he would go back  
yeah  
well i certainly hope so  
uh_huh  
well it's oh i agree it's never too late  
and  
yeah  
and when you're saying older we're talking fifty up  
uh_huh  
oh my  
uh_huh  
yes  
why not because that's a a lot of times well it's  
i believe that uh we in that category  
and i'm not in that category quite yet  
but we are seasoned minds  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it was  
yeah  
settle down  
we know what we're wanting to to uh study  
and uh   we know our limitations  
and we don't try to burn the candle at both ends and in   the middle altogether  
at seven  
yeah  
yes  
we're we're smarter now  
yeah  
right  
uh so let's see  
so mine i don't spend a whole lot of time because they're not here  
and so the second question forgot what the second question  
well uh the trends in the families were to spread apart do your own thing  
but i have seen   lately yes i am seeing   i'm seeing a change that whoops government can't do it  
schools are   not able to  
and between a person's religion uh their their faith in their maker   whether you know uh whether you're christian or jewish   or whatever uh  
and the family  
those are the two that can that that have the wherewithal  
and of course judeo christianity uh and of the jewish folks too believe that the family unit is the one that was given the uh uh mission by the lord   to do this very thing  
so when another group of of uh people step in try to do it they're they're [tromping] on our territory so to speak  
so  
i firmly believe that uh  
okay  
miss nancy we should be in business now  
did you hear the questions that the lady uh brought up  
such as how much time well  
i'll ask  
how much time do you spend with your children  
and how many do you have  
uh_huh  
well you're very fortunate  
uh my my uh  
i have two girls and a son  
and my oldest daughter lives in amsterdam holland  
she   her husband builds pianos  
so it's kind of hard for us to visit with them as much as i'd like to   because we've we one thing we do have together is we're both musicians  
i play in several symphony orchestras  
and   she is a a a concert uh [harpsichordist]   and travels around a good bit in europe  
and uh her husband builds [forte] pianos  
which are harpsichord size pianos  
and uh that's why they're over there  
and then i have a a son who lives in uh [warrington] pennsylvania  
and i get to see him maybe once every three months  
so i really we've lost you know  
i'd like to have an everyday contact with children uh as well as you do for that matter  
and my young my youngest daughter lives in new jersey  
and so they   i don't hardly get to see any of them  
she works in these um trump type [casinos]  
she and her husband both do  
they work   uh they're really both um play people who play on stage  
and uh they're running lights right now and audio and that thing for   plays and things that go on  
but anyhow uh  
what do you what activities do you do with your children when you are together  
oh  
the soviet space exhibit  
my goodness  
i am surprised they would bring anything over here  
uh_huh  
i'll bet  
uh_huh  
well that sounds like you have really   wonderful activities that   keep you together  
yeah  
well that's wonderful   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
the only problem is it keeps you pretty busy keeping everything going  
doesn't it  
uh_huh  
beautiful  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's great  
there's a  
the question now to ask is it difficult to find time  
and you seem to be making out all right  
well tell me  
what do you think of uh of the current trends of how other people spend time with their children and so forth  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
well that's  
no  
that's exactly what i was going to say  
of of course i find now that i spend more time with my grandchildren in   detail  
i know more about them and watch their growth and how they improve and and learn much more so than my own kids  
when when your own children are growing up you just take them for granted  
and you go ahead and do your thing  
and  
good  
yes  
we have two children  
they're both grown and married  
and with we have uh  
our daughter has three sons  
so we see them at least once a week  
and we see our son and his wife uh about every other week  
and uh   we baby sit quite frequently  
so we're a fairly close knit family  
we're together a lot on special days  
and uh and of course with the holidays and everything  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
pianos uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you don't get to see any of yours very often  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh most the time  
well right now it's football season  
and our daughter is a big cowboy fan  
as is our husband  
so my husband  
so she watches that  
and i play with the grandchildren  
i enjoy the grandchildren  
but now like last weekend um there's the soviet space exhibit is here in dallas  
and it ends   uh in january  
so she and and the three boys and my husband and i went over into fort worth to see the space exhibit  
and this sunday  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's   oh it's been here for quite uh some time  
i think it came here in either september or october  
and   it's very interesting very interesting  
and it's been very well done  
uh and this uh next sunday they're coming over after the cowboy game  
and uh   uh we're going to go take the boys to see christmas lights and go to a [santa's] village  
and uh then when our son's over we have a pool  
and he and his wife come and a lot of their friends  
and we have [cookouts] on sunday uh  
and uh   we we do a lot with   with our kids  
and we   we always have  
we've taken a lot of trips with our kids when they were younger  
uh we're very family oriented  
we um   we like being with our kids  
and the kids seem to enjoy being with us  
and their friends enjoy being with us  
so which that keeps us very very young with all these young people passing in and out and eating  
and seems like i've  
well it does  
i'm worried about christmas  
christmas eve they all pass through  
and then they all end up spending the night christmas eve night so that   we open our presents on christmas day  
and they go out to the other you know the in laws in between some of this  
but they're all   with us  
and uh then have christmas dinner with us and then go to other in laws and things  
so we see a lot of them  
but we enjoy christmas eve night because they all start arriving by about eleven o'clock  
and we open presents about five o'clock christmas   morning  
and you know and uh then   i go to the kitchen and cook  
and my sister and and her husband are coming down  
so there's going to be eleven of us for christmas  
yeah  
sometimes i'm a little exhausted  
oh i i think the trends are going back to spending more time with families  
i think parents are definitely uh spending more and more time  
i don't think they're leaving them with baby sitters you know  
i think i think family quality time is becoming much more important than it was there   for about uh i don't know eight or nine years  
seems like it went through a spell there where families weren't that big a deal  
parents kind of went and did their thing  
kids did their thing  
and uh   yes  
uh_huh  
do you have any children  
twelve and sixteen  
well i have three  
and uh they're five and three and nineteen months  
so we kind of got different ball game  
but uh  
what uh  
do you feel like you have any time   to spend with them  
they're probably at an age where they don't want to spend any time with their parents  
right  
oh uh_huh  
right  
sure  
oh well that's nice  
you're stuck together  
no  
i would suspect your nights would be pretty quiet for the most part  
right  
and so that   kind of gives him uh time with his dad then  
gives him a little bit of that individual time  
right  
and they want to be able to spend uh  
well i've even noticed that with my five year old she started kindergarten this year  
and   every day that she's not at school uh she thinks we need to have someone over and play  
and that kind of  
yeah  
it's hard  
i think uh i find myself getting my little projects going and not taking the time that i should  
i'm more worried about oh  
i didn't this done  
i didn't get  
the kitchen needs to be cleaned  
this needs to be done  
and   and i need to remind myself to slow down  
and   it'll still be there tomorrow  
but that's kind of hard to do you know  
you don't see yourself getting  
uh_huh  
right  
slow down a little bit  
oh uh_huh  
you can do uh more than   than when you travel  
this is the first year we're staying home too  
and uh i think it's going to be real quiet  
but uh that's an opportunity to get out the games  
and  
right  
of of course  
oh yeah  
wouldn't take it apart after that  
that'd be kind of fun  
right  
right  
no  
no  
in fact in i think if people would learn to turn off the t v  
and  
i think that's a lot of the breakdown of the communication   and the communication   that would take place in a family  
usually people are not sitting in front of that  
yes  
and you can't communicate while you're doing that right  
whereas uh i'm the type of person i could not sit well  
i shouldn't say i could not  
but be very hard for me to sit down and watch a program all the way through without   doing something  
because they talk so much  
isn't that the  
you're kind of like what are you talking about  
and uh  
you feel like you're a little bit out of it don't you  
they need to have a [highlight] in the newspaper or something tell us what's  
yeah  
i have two two boys twelve and sixteen  
uh_huh  
how about you  
oh  
right  
well  
that's true  
you actually of course spend less time with them when they get older  
but it's of course still really important  
i have a kind of a fortunate situation i think right now with my sixteen year old  
um i work two nights a week at a  
i'm a librarian  
and i work two nights a week at the senior high school library  
they keep it open you know for kids to do their work  
and he um and then they the school district hires an aide you know to work   for me  
well my son is my aide  
so two nights a week for four hours we're stuck together  
and there's usually not very much business  
i mean some nights it's just real real quiet  
so  
so we i have sort of a captive audience  
so i really do spend probably more time with him than than most you know  
but uh of course i'm away from my other son those hours too  
but his dad's at home   pretty much that time  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
but but it is hard once they get that age  
i mean their friends are the most important thing there is  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's kind of hard  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that's true  
yes  
it is hard to do  
right  
yeah  
well if you're kind of a person that likes things you know organized or neat  
or you know  
then i think it it is hard  
it's um  
i think one of the nice things about holidays is that you know it does give you the opportunity to spend more time   yeah with family  
we have we often go to illinois   for christmas  
and we're not this year  
and it's just really nice because we can do you know the things you want to do  
yeah  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
right  
see we usually do that  
my my kids even have already gotten out um  
my twelve year old got out the [legos]   which of course he hasn't touched since last summer  
but you know but every now and then i mean he's got a lot of those [technic] those hard kind  
you know and he wants to be an engineer  
so he still likes   all that kind of building stuff  
and um we have the train  
and we haven't had that [lego] train together for years  
and um so he sat down  
and i told him i really wanted him to build the train  
and we would put it under the tree and that i would keep it together  
i wouldn't take it apart  
yeah  
and every year i'd have the [lego] train under the tree  
and um so he worked on that for the longest time ever since school was out on friday  
and um then his sixteen year old brother started helping too you know  
you know these are kind of things like during the normal rat race  
those kinds of things never happen  
but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
yeah  
which is  
uh_huh  
and there's always a few people in the family that when they stare at it you know they're totally turned off to everything else  
the rest of  
no  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
me too  
yeah  
i don't watch very much of it at all to to the extent that sometimes i feel almost embarrassed at work and stuff like that   yeah  
they talk about t v shows  
and i huh  
you know how can you watch that you know  
it's the best show on  
i don't know  

okay  
yeah  
donna um you said you have three children  
what uh kinds of activities do you spend with them  
is it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so do you find it difficult to find time  
or is it pretty natural  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
do you work during the day  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i can imagine  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so what do you feel are the current trends in the way families spend time in general you know in america  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh that's good  
yeah  
yeah  
well families are facing a challenge  
i know that with  
i'm a [newlywed]  
and we're   you know thinking about having children sometime in the next couple of years  
and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but i do feel like it's important that you make the time for children because  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh   yeah  
okay  
um we have an eleven year old an eight year old and a three year old  
and um   uh my husband let's see he coaches basketball with brian um  
so he spends time doing that with him planning and um practicing outside  
um he's a real sports kind of person  
so he plays tennis with with the kids  
we all kind of play tennis as a family  
except the baby   plays in the playground  
we take turns with her  
um uh let's see  
we have a computer  
and we do a lot of things with the kids on the computer  
um uh let's what else we do  
oh plus we watch a little t v together  
we really don't watch i think as much t v as a lot of people  
we don't have h b o  
we do get the disney channel for the kids  
uh my kids have a nintendo which they play  
and my husband sometimes [joins] them with that  
uh my little girl jennifer likes to do crafty things  
and i'll take some time and do that with her  
and of course we always read a bedtime story at night  
and even the the older kids sometimes sit down and and will join in and listen to a story  
i'm   basically the story person because my husband doesn't have  
he gets home from work late or whatever  
and and usually once in a while he'll read the story to little one  
but that's basically my job  
um  
it is it is hard   because you know at the end of your day you want time for yourself  
and and it  
and that's kind of cutting into your your time  
and with the kids getting older now on the weekends they get to the bed like at ten   which really is late  
but you know on school nights the two older ones get to bed about nine  
they go upstairs at nine  
and um now this weekend we'll have a baby sitter come  
and uh my husband and i will go out to dinner and come home and um probably not too late  
maybe brian will still be up and spend some time with him  
but it it's really hard  
you have to be a very [unselfish] person to to spend a lot of time with your kids i think  
uh no  
i don't work  
i last year um i had a little part time job in a private um high school tutoring um high school students with learning disabilities  
that was two days a week  
and even just those two days just seemed like it was a lot  
i don't know how  
i admire   people that that can do it all  
but with three kids and laundry and keeping the house the way   i want it kept it is hard  
um  
even just finding the time to do the grocery shopping and everything  
and that's another thing  
i'll take one of the kids with me grocery shopping um usually on the weekend  
and that's kind of like a special time for just myself and my little girl or myself and my son  
and they'll be my helper  
and then they'll get to pick out some of those favorite snacks that they get to pick out  
so   i try to do things like that  
but it you know it's it's uh  
and then of course they have a pretty um busy social calendar too  
you fit it in with all that that  
i i think a lot of people a lot of people set their kids in front of the t v and h b o and rent movies and and   kind of leave them to their own means um  
i think you know it's very very easy to fall into that trap  
and i'm not um totally innocent of that because   there's times when you just stay here watch a tape  
but um um i think different parts of the country  
i think in plano and maybe this area in texas there's a lot of community activities that parents could join in with their kids  
people are   real sports conscious and really get involved with their kids sports activities and  
you know but um  
what  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and it's it's very hard because when you get used to two salaries it's very hard to to cut back to one  
and um um but you know if you have the type of job  
i have a friend that's a nurse  
and she can pick her hours  
and  
that's a a great career  
i wish i would have gone into uh nursing  
because she has such a flexible schedule  
but it's very hard to uh spend time with the children and uh and your husband and   do everything at once  
well i think it's a big it's a big um responsibility  
you just don't   have children so that you can continue the lifestyle you had when you were single  
when you have children you have to say now this is different  
and you do have to give things up  
i i personally feel that it is extremely important to be with your own child um for the   at least for the first two years of their lives i mean if you   can possibly swing it  
because they  
oh yeah  
i got three  
how about yourself  
oh you have got uh young children then  
oh my goodness  
that is great  
what kind of mix do you have  
a boy and a girl  
two boys  
do you know what is on the way yet  
are you  
i do not blame you  
well we have got two boys and a girl also  
well we have got two boys and a girl  
yes  
maybe maybe you will get lucky and get a girl this time  
well our boys one is uh he is in graduate school at a and m uh  
he is in the navy  
he is a lieutenant in the navy  
and the navy is sending him for his masters in ocean engineering  
and we have got another boy that is us out in maryland  
he is a wildlife [biologist] uh  
and our girl is thirteen  
she is in the seventh grade  
so we have got still all sorts of good activities since  
well she is into a little bit of everything  
she is uh loves riding horses  
so she goes out riding as much as she can  
no  
well that  
yeah  
but maybe that riding place that is north of town that she goes to  
she rides english and does jumping takes lesson and all that kind of stuff  
yeah  
she is into uh  
well she plays the flute in the band and the [piccolo]  
and she is into this uh [odyssey] of the mind thing which is uh takes a lot of time for uh  
it  
a  
what they call peace group  
i don't know if you have gotten into that with your kids  
but that is where the kind of  
well it is a program for   advanced kids  
oh okay  
well my wife is involved  
and she kind of heads that up for these kids  
and last year they they got uh the state level  
they did not win that  
but they uh got one local and uh one region  
and they got a new mix of kids this time  
so it keeps them busy  
it keeps them busy  
well uh yes  
but they well they have  
well you probably know a peace group that uh that they are advanced type that they are special well uh classes for peace classes  
i think that uh   this happens to be uh uh  
history is what their peace class is this year  
but uh so  
they uh she enjoys that kind of stuff   and uh does well with it  
so yeah  
yeah  
always something to do  
well you will get to different levels  
i guarantee it  
uh okay  
that will be fun  
oh yeah  
yeah  
got to wait a couple years  
sledding that is what you have got to do  
tobogganing  
you have got to go tobogganing and sledding with them  
well you are welcome to keep that  
well i grew up in wisconsin  
i i had plenty of snow  
and   when i was a kid  
and we have lived here about seventeen years  
but we use to take all of the kids tobogganing and ice skating and all of that kind of stuff  
it is fun really  
as long as you do not have to drive in it  
i had plenty of snow to last me forever  
i i don't care if i ever see any  
well i don't care if i ever see it  
but keep it off of here  
yes  
well you have got   you have got five months before you will see that  
oh yeah  
out oldest son when uh  
do you have kids  
uh we have two and another one on the way  
well yeah  
uh we do  
we have uh a six year old  
he is oldest  
and then uh our baby will be a year on monday  
yeah  
two boys  
two boys  
yeah  
no  
i am just about three months  
and uh i don't think we really even want to find out  
we like surprises  
so we will take either  
and uh does it  
are the two boys first  
oh  
maybe huh  
we we kind of like our boys though too  
so  
oh my goodness  
oh yeah  
you kind of got uh a span there huh  
oh well what do you do with your seventh grader  
do you have horses  
she just she knows people that does huh  
oh does she  
oh  
she must really like them  
advanced  
yeah  
yeah  
i have heard about it  
our little boy is in the first grade  
and i i taught school for six years  
so i do know about that program  
and  
oh uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i bet  
huh well so does she go actually out into a different classroom with with uh other kids that are involved in this  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
oh how neat  
challenging huh  
oh  
well uh as far as our activities we are kind of on a different level here  
but my  
yeah  
yeah  
my husband is going to take our six year old to the monster truck show tonight  
they like to uh  
both boy things  
yeah  
but we we do not have any real uh  
like we don't really ski  
we have not taken our kids skiing or anything  
of course the baby is young  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
the what  
oh well yeah  
we we have done that  
he in fact he just goes right out here  
we have got quite a bit of snow uh  
last week we got a lot  
yeah  
you would like that huh  
oh  
yeah  
it is fun  
yeah  
i  
no  
i do not like that  
i  
really it makes me nervous  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well uh i don't mind it  
but uh uh the winter gets long  
you know i get ready that  
come about this time of year i am kind of ready for it to start getting spring  
and it is too early yet  
yeah  
we do we do  
we have had a few early springs though in the last few years  
they have not been too bad  
come about march it gets you know a lot nicer  
um  
i have an older son  
yeah  
he doesn't have any children yet though  
uh he's thirty seven  
and i don't know if he's ever going to have any or not  
but i do have some neighbor kids lots of little neighbor kids  
that  
i go out and uh i play ball with them  
you know it's because like this one that lives right next door her mother does some work at home   on computers  
and it just seems like she doesn't have any time for her which is kind of sad you know  
so the kids are kind of hungry for someone to play with them  
so i will go out and play catch with them or you know we let the dogs outside  
and they will roll around on the ground and play with the dogs  
but uh actually i do think that the parents should have you know a little bit more time to spend with their kids  
no  
when my son was at home i i did work  
and then he went to a baby sitter that this lady had about five other kids that she baby sat you know  
but we always had our days off together  
and we went camping on vacations  
so we had a lot of time together that way you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
well i am sure it was you know  
but uh i don't know what the families are going to come to now days because they there just doesn't seem like they do have time for their kids  
because most most of them the father and mother both work you know  
so it's really rough  
uh i have one neighbor that's uh the father is a fireman  
and he works like four days on  
and it seems like he is suppose to come home for like three or four days  
but he can't make enough as a fireman to support his family you know  
so he's got a second job  
so he's you know he's not home very often  
and that's you know  
the kids i know miss that  
you know  
yeah you know  
and i don't know  
i i suppose they are trying to get through to them that well daddy is not home because you know he is out working trying to make some money for you know we can buy you this bike and that toy and so forth you know  
but uh  
oh i am sure they would you know  
so are you planning on to having any children  
or  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
well that's good  
that's what my uh daughter in law told me that they were going to have kids probably after two years of marriage  
and they will be married nine years   this year  
so i don't know  
she's a nurse you know  
and uh she has brothers and sisters that has got lots of little kids  
so maybe they just decided that uh if they wanted to have kids around the house they would just you know call one of their sisters or brothers up and tell them to send the kids over for the night  
you know  
but uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so  
right  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh do you plan on staying home after you have your children  
or do you do you work or what  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so you have a son  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i would think so  
when you  
when when your son was at home did you uh working  
did you work  
or were you able to stay at home with him  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well when my mom uh  
when i was growing up my mom worked too  
but she worked nights   and uh as a nurse  
and so she was always home for us  
and i always i really appreciated that having her there when i was you know when i came home from school and when i worked  
but now when i look back at it it must have been a really difficult thing that she did   for us  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
they really do  
uh a family without a father it's it's uh a really hard thing  
uh_huh  
kids i think would much rather have dad there than the toy anyway  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
but we are  
we just got married like like december  
so we are going to wait a year  
and   then we will try  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's a possibility  
well we really want to have a family  
we feel like that that couple you know you are not giving enough of yourself  
and   you should you should be sharing your family   and giving your values you know making something better of the world by raising up good kids   and letting them know they're loved and stuff  
give them give them an edge  
but we feel like like the first year needs to be devoted to uh making the family the couple strong   and secure in their love for each other  
but then a family is is definitely a high priority  
well well i uh i am in i am in a different situation  
i am a missionary  
and i am home on [furlough]  
it called like  
i have worked for four years in africa  
and i come home for a year  
and then we go back for four years  
but my husband and i will do the same job  
and we will be living in in africa  
and we will be working together  
so uh we will we will share the job of raising the family  
i mean as a mother i will have certain responsibilities that he might not necessarily have  
but still we will share that job  
but we have  
then we have decisions that we have to make that are hard about schooling like do you want to home school your kids on a computer program   you know that kind of thing  
or do you send them away to [boarding] school  
and if you do that when do you do it  
and that's a  
okay  
so you have eight children  
um what type of things do you do as a family to spend time together  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we know how that goes  
uh with lots of kids you don't have lots of money for recreation  
well that's fun  
so um let's see uh  
some of the things we do together as a family we like to play games a lot  
and you may think this is funny  
but one of our [funnest] games we like to play together is hide and seek  
and we just have a hoot playing hide and seek when it's dark   in our house  
and that is so fun  
the kids just get a crack out of that  
um we like we do like to go to the park too you uh like your family  
um we don't do a lot of vacationing  
have you taken a lot of vacations together  
or  
uh_huh  
and  
oh  
oh now where do they live  
oh so that's a bit of a drive for you there  
oh so you like to go there for the holidays  
and  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh what are the ages of your kids then  
oh yeah  
so you have some in the nest and some out huh  
we have  
ours start at twelve  
and then they go down to four  
i bet  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
and then if you want to play something on the little kids' level then the older kids get real bored  
and they want to do something else  
so  
yeah  
i can i can relate to that  
um do you feel that the current trend in families spending time together is a positive one or a negative one  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's good  
oh good  
uh_huh  
i think so  
and i feel like you know like president bush bush has mentioned quite often that we are trying to become a kinder and [gentler] nation  
and it does begin with the families at home  
and so i i'm a firm believer in that too  
yes  
that's that's true  
well we see that a lot out here in utah  
and um hopefully hopefully it's going to spread huh  
oh  
um do you have a lot of large families out there in texas  
or  
very few  
you feel like you're in the minority  
oh dear  
well out here in utah five is about the   the average  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh  
oh i have some relatives out there in texas  
in fact my mom's out there in texas right now in dallas spending a month with her cousins on their ranch  
and  
well uh no  
i'm trying aberdeen  
is is that close to dallas  
oh  
don't you  
it's i guess it's out there clear out  
they have a ranch that has like five hundred acres  
and  
oh we spend a lot of time outdoors jogging bicycling uh going to the park um some time watching v c r   movies   um generally cheap things  
that's right  
yeah  
most of our vacations are to go and see grandma and grandpa  
we get an occasional one or two day thing  
but most of them are going and seeing grandma and grandpa  
in arizona  
yes  
oh we don't go very often for holidays  
generally we try to get all of our kids back home for the holidays   and let grandma and grandpa come and visit us  
they range from twenty four to five  
that's right  
how old are your children  
i think the hardest thing for us has been is to find you know leisure time activities that all of our kids can enjoy together   with the age span that we have you know  
like the older kids love playing board games and that kind of thing  
but the young kids don't understand it  
and so they get real frustrated when we try to do that  
and  
yeah  
i think it's improving actually  
we had an interesting experience the other day  
we we have pretty much a a routine that we spend  
we don't have our kids play with other kids on sunday  
and we just kind of keep them at home  
and our next door neighbor uh  
we were at a soccer game saturday  
and our next door neighbor was there  
and somebody came up and asked if their daughter could spend saturday night at their house  
and she said no sunday's our family day  
and we keep our kids at home so we can spend time with them  
and i think those kinds of things are happening a lot where we are right now  
i think it's gone to one extreme where the families were just running all different direction  
and i think more people are interested in spending time with their kids now  
yeah  
i think a lot of people are [panicked] how kids are turning out and how things are going for kids and realizing they've got to start doing something  
so  
utah's a lot better than texas  
very few  
oh definitely  
when we tell people how many kids we have they look at us like we didn't have good sense  
but uh  
average  
my wife and i were in utah until   i guess we were about twenty four  
never been back since then  
but   we have kids up there now  
so we get up occasionally  
where where in dallas  
huh  
i don't have any idea  
i've never   heard of it  
must be a   little town  
yeah  
all right  
okay  
how many kids do you have  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
yeah  
we we've been married for two and a half years  
we've been trying for about two years but   no luck yet  
hopefully  
uh_huh  

she had another call  
she has just three kids eleven nine and eight  
uh_huh  
all right  
okay  
that keeps you  
do you have a lot of activities with your kids  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so they're pretty good kids huh  
yeah  
well we had growing up  
i guess i can talk about us  
we had nine kids in our family  
we had eight boys and one girl  
but my dad uh  
yeah  
and the time that my we spent with our dad was he owned his own business  
so we worked with him most of the time  
so that's how we spent most of the time with him  
yeah  
that was a dead giveaway huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
which that  
i was going to say my sister wasn't spoiled very much  
yeah  
that's  
but  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  

yeah  
it's like you said you know to each his own  
and we're planning on having my wife stay home  
and but  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
sounds like you're have a handle on it  
um no  
not right now  
right  
well we just moved down here  
we used to live up in seattle for a couple of years  
it's that's no problem here  
yeah  
we really liked it up there  
but then  
yes  
i think i think we're going to talk about parents spending time with their children  
we   have three children who are eleven nine and eight  
so this is the big issue with us although i don't recall marking it on my little things to talk about  
but   perhaps they are little for words to be said like day care and quality time  
and  
anyway  
you don't have children  
but you're married  
oh  
you know i know we're not supposed to do this long distance  
but actually i'm getting a call  
i wonder if i could possibly take it on call waiting  
could i ask you to hold one minute  
i'll be right back  
excuse me   just a moment  
they're going to get mad  
hello  
i'm so sorry  
that was my daughter's brownie leader telling me that there is a meeting tomorrow   brownie meeting  
well i don't want to i don't want this to be a [unilateral] conversation  
but yes  
we do  
both my husband and i work  
and our children are sixth fourth and third grade  
and the school years are wonderful  
they're just wonderful  
the kids they are real people  
and they are interesting  
and   they they have all their own activities  
and um i think as parents we really enjoy them in in our personal situation  
our children have not yet decided to rebel  
i'm sure that's coming though  
but   they are wonderful kids  
you had eight boys and one girl  
are you [mormons]  
that's what the utah and the large family  
well we're catholics  
i came from a family of five  
i had four brothers  
the only girl  
and everyone always asked if the girl got spoiled  
i never felt spoiled  
in fact i always thought my toys were destroyed  
no  
usually busy fighting for survival  
well i do think with working parents it is i mean there are some real issues here um   that i think um  
i don't know  
it's an interesting problem  
i happen to um  
i'm a pediatrician  
my husband is a physician  
so uh i i i talk to parents about this a lot  
but children  
i i think working mothers or mothers who choose to work outside the home um need very early to come to grips with any guilt   that they feel and decide what's best for them and their family  
and i feel when my children were very young i had jobs that helped me be flexible with my schedule and spend time with them and all that sort of thing  
and i long ago decided i'm a better mother because i work outside the home  
i really believe that  
and it has um helped us to afford some things for our children that we couldn't otherwise that i think are wonderful particularly at this age  
and i think our kids are real secure   and have a real sense of priorities and that they can do anything and be anything both male and female a lot  
so i know it sounds like a [rationalization]  
but it's i really think it's true for our family  
and i think it has worked very well  
there's no question  
i think that's really the best  
if if a woman is happy doing that  
i hate to put it quite that way  
i was twenty nine when i had my first child  
and uh i would not have been real fulfilled  
i really would not have been totally staying home with a young child  
it's a wonderful it's wonderful to be a mother  
but uh i like i like the way i did it  
i sort of worked half time  
i had very flexible hours  
i [nursed] all three of our children until they were at least a year  
and i   you can do that despite working very easily which is one of the things i [preach] all the time to to mothers  
um and i think we choose very very carefully the um alternative situations that we had them in  
some baby sitting groups  
again i know it sounds like a [rationalization]  
but i really do think sometimes they very early on are around lots of other children  
and they they learn to share  
they learn not necessarily to be the center of attention but that at the same time we have to be sure they are secure  
i think that helps  
well so so   so your wife does she work right now  
she's out  
you're still trying to dry out  
i  
you know actually in this modern day and age it seems like uh uh we have more and more leisure time because uh we have so many convenience appliances and whatnot  
we don't even have to cook dinner anymore  
uh but i uh   i've heard i don't know this for a fact but i've heard that a lot of families really don't spend a great deal of time together  
that the kids maybe on the average get uh something like thirty seconds of quality time with the parents  
it seems bizarre to me  
i don't quite understand it although i think probably the the worst thing that's happening in the world at least the modern world today is television  
not so much because uh it's bad per se although there is some pretty crappy programming  
and i there's also some uh i think uh poorer lifestyles illustrated but simply because it [dominates] so much [discussionary] time  
it's so darned easy to turn the thing on  
so i refuse to have one in the house  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i'll tell you  
television sure makes child rearing easy on you  
i mean the kids can be a real [pest] uh  
and turning the t v on is almost like magic you know  
it's like sticking uh an [electrode] into their pleasure center  
and you don't have to worry about them  
but i don't think it's too good  
uh so you know i don't know  
i take advantage  
i don't have a great deal of time to spend with the kids  
but i take advantage of um dinner time  
we always eat together  
and you know whenever you're with your kids you want to interact with them rather than just ignore them  
uh i guess our big outlet is music uh  
our thirteen year old son plays violin  
and our   nine year old daughter plays cello  
and uh when our son started playing violin i took up violin  
and when our daughter started playing cello i took up cello  
so there's plenty of plenty of interactive time in uh practicing although neither kid likes to practice  
i guess that's not a big surprise  
but i i imagine with infants you are most of your time is sort of spent taking care of them rather than [interacting] with them   although  
oh you know reading is so good  
i uh i took great pleasure in reading to my kids when they were little  
and i still try to read to them although our son is not liking that anymore  
uh but i read you know  
there's this doctor [seuss] sleep book  
have you ever seen that yet  
yeah  
it's called a sleep book  
and uh you ought to get it  
i tell you i read that book to my kids so many times i almost have the thing memorized  
uh  
yeah  
well i think i think his sleep book is my favorite  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so how   much time do you think you spend with your kids on the average per each day  
oh that's great  
oh i see  
how old are your kids again  
two and one  
yeah  
so you have your hands full with them  
that's for sure  
yes  
yeah  
really  
that's what i've heard too uh  
yeah  
right  
i know it  
i've i tell myself sometimes just sit down after work  
oh really  
well good for you  
good for you  
a lot of people i talk to a lot of people about that  
and i've thought about it myself  
and i though about it a lot  
but uh i still haven't done it yet  
well that's good  
that's true  
i've noticed that  
i don't think so either  
do you keep your kids uh active in sports or anything  
or  
oh okay  
okay  
no  
not for kids  
yeah  
well   i i try and read to them  
and i take them to the park and stuff  
and   yeah  
yeah  
well they get to that stage  
sleep book  
no  
we've got quite a few of doctor [seuss'] books  
oh really  
well yeah  
i like to i like to do it  
and they enjoy reading  
i've actually i never read a lot growing up  
and i never read until a few years ago  
i just started picking up books  
and so i've found that you know it's really important to me to get to read  
to i like to get away in a book you know  
and so i've put a lot more emphasis on that on my kids   to try and  
oh i probably spend an hour or two  
my wife works at night  
so she does uh [tupperware]  
so she's gone a lot at nights  
and so   i spend a lot of time with them  
they're two and one  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i have five  
right  
well five are i mean four of them are grown  
they're in college or just out of college  
so i really have just a thirteen year old at home  
well i work at it  
i try to fool everybody  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think you are right  
because i was an only child too  
and that's one reason i have so many because i really i enjoy the big family  
and my thirteen year old is pretty separate from her brother and sisters  
and so she is sort of like an only child  
and it's the same type of thing uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
that's exactly how it is you know  
she's got all these sisters and her brother to take care of her  
when things don't go right she just calls one of them you know  
but uh yeah  
it it's a little bit difficult though  
i think it was easier when they all had each other and could entertain each other and i was home more  
and  
we we really did not  
my next oldest daughter that's in college in california is a world twirling champion  
she [twirls] a baton  
and we did a lot of things together  
she and i did a lot of things together and flew  
we have flown all over the world for her to compete and to perform  
and that was a lot of fun  
but that that i guess you could consider that organized  
i mean there is a competition all the time  
we were very heavy into that  
other than that they were pretty much  
and maybe dancing school for a while or mainly school sports and things like that  
uh_huh  
well you can't afford to  
right  
right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i know i spent hours in the gym every day with my daughter  
and my little one also [competed] because really she had no choice  
she had to go with me  
so the three of us just spent a lot of time traveling and and competing  
and of course the competing itself really didn't matter what it was  
it was making the friends and going all the places  
and it was a really neat experience  
but it took our total time  
i did not work uh when i did this  
now i do work full time  
and it's just   my thirteen year old and myself  
and so we really have to keep it together to get just her activities in and still have time to spend with each other  
so  
yeah  
really  
well things cost a lot more  
i don't know how it is in georgia  
and i don't think our part of the country is particularly bad compared to some  
is it  
really  
right  
that's what i've heard  
huh  
yeah  
i'm surprised to hear that  
i've heard very positive things about atlanta  
how many children do you have now  
you have five  
well you do have a hard time finding time then don't you  
uh_huh  
you sound so young  
all right  
to have them uh  
i think you're doing a good job  
i just have one child  
and uh i don't think uh  
well there's not much i can do about it  
my my wife and i are in our forties you know  
so uh  
but it's hard to raise one child without them thinking they're the they're the [pivot] point of the universe  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i have a younger brother like that  
i'm in my forties like i say  
and i have a brother in his twenties  
and i was i was the youngest  
so i understand how that worked  
and he was treated like he had five fathers or something  
yeah  
did you all do a lot of organized things like uh little league uh soccer  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you know i think that's probably true the  
if you have one child or fewer you get involved in organized events or   activities  
and if you have a large number of children or then you don't  
no  
you  
and there's not enough time uh  
like my son is in uh little league this year  
he's ten  
and they practice three times a week  
and they have a game  
and it's just uh if there were more than one child i don't know there would be no way to do it  
you know one parent go one direction  
and i'd have to go in the other  
and   we could only cover two at that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't think although  
i think a a more than one child probably three children is probably the ideal to me  
but i'm not sure i could afford three  
i most certainly couldn't educate three  
i don't know how my my parents did it  
i mean there were five of us  
and i don't recall you know wanting anything in particular  
uh but i don't know how my father did it  
he worked at a truck line  
and he just didn't make that kind of money with five children  
but we did okay  
we had a house and a home and  
but now my wife and i both work  
and we don't i don't believe we have as much as my parents did  
and we only have one child  
uh_huh  
huh  
atlanta is horrible  
yes  
we have a lot of people moving here from boston and and different areas  
and from talking to them they're shocked  

and they you know  
the housing is so cheap   in comparison to boston   that they jump on it  
they sell their house  
they stash away a good bit of money and come down here  
and i work with a lot of them  
they they think they they have really done something  
then when they get down here they realize the cost of living is outrageous   compared to to where they came from  
the housing is cheaper  
but that's about it  
uh i don't know about you  
but uh i work outside the home  
and uh in fact uh i'll be leaving very shortly to go to work  
and i work different shifts so are pretty much a later shift to where i don't have i don't have the family time  
uh when my husband gets home it's usually he's home with my daughter alone  
and then a couple of hours later i'm home  
uh i don't know  
i'm finding that more and more people that i talk to there's less and less family time available to them  
and uh it seems that business wise uh in the business community or your employers seem to be taking more and more time away from the family  
so you know if you do have any time it's kind of like on a rush cycle that you have to get so many other things done uh just to maintain your home and maintain the things outside your home and then plus try to have that relationship with your children  
and it it's sometimes a very it it's a very hard juggling act  
and you know i look at my daughter  
and she's now uh four going to be four  
and i keep saying oh jeez i don't have that much time with her  
and she's growing fast  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yeah  
sure  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
i i  
i think so too  
in fact uh i spent the first three years at home with my daughter  
so i i guess i felt fairly fortunate that i was able to do that  
and i did notice the difference between those of infants being placed in daycare  
and i thought to myself how can a mother place her child at the age of six weeks or four weeks or two weeks or three weeks  
whatever the employer says you have to be back at work is basically when you have to be back at work whether it be six weeks or three or four  
but how these women must feel to place their children into care  
and you know it's our society saying yes  
this uh you need this job  
it's a little bit financial type thing  
because uh if you look all over in the other countries like europe and that uh their standards of living are a lot less than what ours are  
and   that's part of it too  
but uh like my husband was saying maybe some of the problems we brought on to ourselves is that these women back in the nineteen fifties uh were staying at home with their kids and then made the decision well jeez you know i'll go out and get a part time job  
got a part time job  
and then financially they got themselves into well i'll have the boat  
i'll have the car  
and   it's nice  
and really women past generation women have done it to women of this day and age too uh  
because it is now our financial situations are as it almost takes two people to bring in an income to support a family now  
and  
uh_huh  
sure  
i did it   for three years  
and uh it cost us a lot of financial problems doing it  
and pretty soon you know you're at the limit where you've got to say okay you've sacrificed for you know so many years at home  
and you're not getting any further you know along  
and you have to make that decision to go back to work part time or go back to work full time  
and you have to make that decision  
and it's a tough one  
and i  
uh_huh  
sure  
i agree  
yeah  
i know that i have three children  
and uh i stay home  
i don't work  
and uh i know that it it must be really challenging to uh try to juggle a job and and also your children  
because i know my husband if i were gone as much as he is   we wouldn't have the influence on them that i would want to put on them  
and i also notice that the children that come over here to play   that go to daycare every day   they don't like to be around adults  
they don't want to play around adults  
they don't want to be around you  
they don't want you to tell them what to do  
they want to do their own thing  
and they're the very same age as my children  
and i'm finding as i volunteer up at the school i just being uh  
i'm not educated at all in uh really [detecting] this  
but i can talk to the teacher and tell them on a pretty good basis after i've worked up at the school for a couple of weeks   which kids go to daycare and which kids stay home  
and you can just tell in their personalities and how they respond to the adults that uh the ones that are are home and the ones even that are at home that are getting the love and attention that they need  
not that the kids that go out aren't getting that  
it's just a different  
they're they are more use to being with their own age kids  
they're not use to being with adults and to responding   to adults  
uh i think the trend in the united states  
i feel really bad that it's turned so much   to where the children are uh  
right  
right  
it's hard  
it really is hard  
i know that my husband and i have to do a lot of sacrificing   to keep me home  
and uh  
right  
right  
i think   one of the things that people look at too though is uh how they spend their time with their children  
i think with working moms if you can get them the bosses to give you almost like a rotation like they're going to do with year round school where you work  
yeah  
well twenty seven up  
and we had five  
oh yeah  
and how about yourself  
oh  
well  
yeah  
well when mine were growing up i did some traveling and but not that extensively  
but i always just made it a point you know to spend about ten minutes with each one of them  
so it was an hour you know  
but whether it was going back and laying in bed with them and just shooting the breeze or whatever telling them stories or reading to them  
six years  
yeah  
oh yeah  
we look back and wonder how we did it  
no  
she never did  

well yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's plenty though  
yeah  
right  
well you know with kids you're not going to have a neat house  
and you know   it it's tough to find time   especially with both of them working  
and you just have to set the time and say okay this is going to be it  
right  
right  
well that's good too  
yeah  
that's good that way too  
yeah  
well that they say it it all it takes is about five ten minutes a day  
and you know and as the kids got older i made them you know help me cut the grass and   kind of made that a project too   or whatever  
and  
oh yeah  
and uh well yeah  
if  
yeah  
just keep them talking that way  
but uh another thing we used to do is have family [councils]   every sunday night  
discuss everything that didn't agree with them  
and we'd take turns being president  
and everyone would get one vote  
and i always thought we'd get [outvoted] five to two  
but it never worked that way  
yeah  
well and we could bring up   and we could bring up stuff too  
and that was always good time  
boy we really got to know the kids well  
oh yeah  
in   fact they were all in uh over the weekend for easter  
well we did too  
and i remember the one daughter saying we had a a friend of hers that used to drive us up a tree  
and she said hey i don't make fun fun of your friends  
so why make fun of mine  
kind of kind of hit us between the eyes  
no  
but that that was always good quality time for us  
and then   never attend  
but if if they missed it they had to [abide] by the rules  
yeah  
and boy they they'd show up  
and we'd usually take notes  
and you know the younger kids uh or maybe all of them needed help at one time or another  
and uh but they were usually tougher on themselves than they were on us  
and they loved it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh boy i i feel for you and your husband  
well my my uh two of my uh  
kids too  
oh you laugh  
how many  
what ages  
uh  
you've been through the fun part  
i have a four and a half and a three  
so it's  
i i'm sure there's a lot of differences in the way in the way it's done now and then  
yeah  
yeah  
what was the age difference between the youngest and the oldest  
so they were all real close  
that's tough  
that's a lot of time  
did you both work your wife too  
uh well qualify that  
she worked at home i'm sure  
but that's uh  
well both my husband and i work  
and sometimes i feel like you know by the time i pick them up and get them home and get them fed i have very little time each evening  
maybe thirty minutes max  
and well he spends a lot of time with them while i'm cooking  
and then i spend time with them while you know he's doing other stuff  
and and of course we try to spend a lot of time on the weekend  
you know there's a lot of times my house may not be as clean as i particularly like it  
but it's neat  
it's straight  
and i can live with it because   i do stuff with my kids you know  
well i've accepted that too  
that's true  
it is  
yeah  
that's true  
well that's true  
and and we do a lot of that on the weekends you know  
we try to spend saturdays together  
if my husband [golfs] you know he'll do it during nap time things like that where they're not really missing the presence you know  
and and we do a lot of family things together  
we're we're kind of going the other direction this weekend  
we're planning a trip just he and i  
this is the first time we've gone anywhere without the kids   since she was born four and a half years ago  
well i decided that you know you need that once in awhile that you you need to plan the quality time  
and and i do think that if you plan it and spend that and make it quality time you don't have to be there twenty four hours a day  
yeah  
sure  
sure  
and they think that's a family activity you know  
yeah  
that's great fun  
my daughter's like mommy can i help you with the laundry  
of course you can  
absolutely  
yeah  
uh_huh  
and what would you do  
what  
oh  
yeah  
so they would just pick whatever issue kind of was at a   head that week  
and then  
oh  
i imagine  
and i imagine you still have a very close relationship with them  
i  
oh that's wonderful  
see i was raised in that type of family where you know you don't [disobey] me you mind me  
but if you have a problem with what we did or how we did it you can always come back and talk to me about it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh well  
yeah  
yeah  
you don't think of it that way do you  
now that's good  
i like   that idea  
whatever was voted on huh  
well i think that's great  
yeah  
yeah  
i i think that's true  
i can remember times my parents would say well what do you think would be a fair punishment  
and we would always come up with something that was harder than what they would have done   you know  
so i do think it's right that they're harder on themselves you know  
oh why is that  
um i think uh i like to listen to a program called focus on the family
with doctor james [dodson] and from what i understand it's it's a new thing good about families these days uh especially spending time with one another
i know if if i were to have children i would have trouble because i work and uh i have my dogs
and i have a hard enough time
spending time with them you know
uh_huh
yeah
right
there's a lot of single parents too that are trying
yeah
yeah
and uh i'm not sure
or i just wonder when we'll know what the effects
of day care
yeah
yeah
i've heard that they they call them uh that they say that they're more um creative that they're really just from the day care
because uh the people don't have the time to give that one on one attention
and and i just wonder if maybe day uh the home schooling is going to come into more and more uh homes
yeah
because you really
if you have a good curriculum
do you really need to have that certification
of a teacher
i i taught school for a year
and it was like whoops you know it's not for me because i i just don't have that discipline with children that uh you need for them to learn
and uh i one day i was i like found myself uh telling them to write their spelling words a hundred times each
and i just heard this comedian say that you know something that that's how you know you're a bad teacher
and i was doing it just keep them occupied
yeah
yeah
using it as a a baby sitter
uh_huh
yeah
or run you out
well i've i've heard some uh there's a book out now called the saturday morning mind control
and uh he raises some serious questions about why do they have these really a lot of money goes into the advertising for children's programs
and yet uh children can't buy uh what's the deal
right
i know it
and boy the price of toys these days is ridiculous
and they all have to have the same one you know
and
yeah
i wonder how long that would last
they didn't have a t v at all
were they [pentecostal] yeah
they just
yeah
yeah
yeah
it is it's very good
i think t v has really had some bad effects on all of us
i've
yeah
yeah
and you can't control it
you you know it's the cable channels sometimes you can
but boy the cable t v
they'll just show anything
and that's coming right into your homes
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
and there's a lot greater instance of uh children committing murders too isn't there
killing their parents and so forth
they don't they see these things happening with no consequences you know
yeah
yeah
like double o seven
he's supposed to do it
and it's okay
so i
huh
no
huh_uh
because i'm like forty three and so it's uh it's too late
you know i sometimes wonder if i'll ever if i will regret it when i'm old
but uh i just can't see myself as a parent
you know it's
really
are you married
yeah
yeah
well i wish you the best
it's good talking to you
so uh you said you don't have kids
but uh you're interested in the topic
uh_huh
right
yes
yes
i have one son who's now uh eighteen
and he's a sophomore in college
and it it does
but i was very lucky in that i was uh teaching at a university
and so basically
and lived within walking distance
so i was able when he was little
just to uh leave him with a neighbor in uh one of these carry cots and then go up and teach a class and come back
because i could do my work at home
and my my students who were working on their [masters'] degrees and stuff would come to my house
and i would meet with them there
so it was really ideal and then later on
uh when he was gee maybe two and three
i actually took him then i changed to a different school
but it was still within walking distance
and uh he spent a lot of time in my office
because i was uh department [chairman]
and um you know really didn't interfere because all his life
he had sort of been used to
there were quiet times
and so and that worked out great
yes
yes
he's commuting
it's um about gee
he [commutes] forty five minutes a each way
but he has to allow an hour and a half going to school because it's too too [chancy] for him to miss classes
and so
actually we don't
i mean we still spend a lot of time together in the sense that we are always together for dinner
and and uh then you know he's in the house studying in the evening
and he also works
and so
uh he usually calls me
when he gets home from school at noon i mean not not checking in
but more gee you know
missed you you know this is what's new type of thing
and i think we have a very good relationship from that standpoint
but i think it's unusual
and i think part of it is that that we were abroad for a good part of the time
until till uh six years ago
well i was actually in the middle east
so
yeah
bilingual yes
yeah
actually uh he he was more in a sense raised [trilingual] in that i spoke spanish to him when he was a baby
and then but he always answered in arabic because he heard more arabic than spanish
and then when we first came to visit my mother he picked up english when he was two and a half
and he had heard me talk english on the phone
but you know he hadn't he really didn't use it
so
oh
where are you from
oh okay
uh_huh
because you they were newly in this country
oh
uh_huh
where were they where they what village
oh from [damascus] oh okay
uh_huh
yeah
but see there's a big big issue there because my my family spoke german at home
so that we couldn't understand
and and my uh nieces and nephews are not learning their mother's language
so that i think this is a a tendency in the states because it's a melting pot
so i think my son had the advantage of
we were actually living outside the country
so there was a reason for
him to learn it
yeah
it's really hard
well i'm not so sure that it's the the academics as much as spending time with him
and i've been concerned in the states since i've been back
with the number particularly in the washington area where i live now
uh with seeing how many kids come home to empty houses
and like in our court we live in a townhouse court
and there's seven year olds that come home and they're locked out
and you know some of the neighbors sort of feel sorry for them and and you know would be very responsible if something happened
but the parents aren't willing to to pay that person to sort of be in charge
and and i think this is i you know i've just seen so much of it here in this country that
you wouldn't see in in certainly not in the arab culture
i mean people are more important than things
so he's a terror well he's a terror he just you know [climbs] on cars
walks around the court threatening people with sticks yeah
it
right now
would you continue do you work now
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
that he'll be able to spend more time which is so important
right
actually we traveled extensively because i was doing [archeology] and so you know he was always able to come with me on all my travels because a lot of the places i went by car
of course
and i mean you know i was living in the middle of it
and i took every advantage
and and you know he doesn't dislike travel now he might not like it
uh you know he might not feel [compelled] to travel
because he has seen a lot
but he's very comfortable traveling
and so that's right
that's right
right
you know that that remains to be seen but yes
i think so
i think so
so
no
no
and and and i find that interesting because he's been two years ahead in the schools here
and so he always you know was treated like little brother when the band needed transportation they'd say oh he can't drive
so you know when he's a senior he can drive some of the the younger kids around type of thing
he didn't get his i mean he was just sixteen when he graduated from high school
so you know he he has friends
but he doesn't have any you know he hasn't really gotten into the social thing
and he's i think that's all right
he's going to
it looks like finish his degree first before
he gets too involved
yeah
um
right
that's right
but you don't have to keep up
i mean kids appreciate it more if you don't
i think if if things are special and are for them they see that their kids are being bought
that their friends are being bought
by their parents
uh_huh
and they don't need them
and they don't even appreciate them
i mean that's my feeling
i think you know from what i see a lot of people just it's a token you know you don't have me
so you have all these material things
yes
we have
okay
that time is uh hadn't been a whole lot here in the last several months
i've been working so many hours when we do have time it tends to be in uh discussion kinds of activities
although more i'm trying to get into doing some sports stuff with my son
he's nine
oh yes
very much uh my wife and i have tried to come up with a [collective] amount of time that we think is appropriate and then we're just going to have to figure out what uh what time who has what time to spend in what activities
i guess is a way of putting it
i think it needs to be combination of those that there are some things that uh i can represent better
and there are other things that she can represent better
and then that we have to show that interaction certainly
and that both of us are are caring and loving
i think it's certainly different uh i grew up probably earlier than you did
and my mom was always home uh forever
you know she was a housewife
when that was the classic meaning of the word
and uh she was always there uh
and i think that because she was always there
and i knew that i always had access to her i tended to spend my time
let's say more efficiently because now i've noticed that whenever i'm home
my son likes to hang around where i am because i'm here
so seldom instead of like now he's burning daylight you know because he's hanging around me instead of being out there playing with the other kids
and i could always count on my father being home at a set period of time
somehow you know back in those days
it seemed like people didn't work the hours that we do now
i think that uh we're going to find out that the uh massive amounts of time that we've spent away from our family were not worth it
but there's just unfortunately i don't see any alternatives in order to compete in today's work environment i need to meet and exceed what my peers do
and if they are going to work those kinds of hours then i have to do that
oh i i think that's very realistic
uh i have a couple of good friends who are physicians
and they tell me that unless they are in dire need of more money for a brief period of time that they work eight to six
and they don't even work five days a week you know they work eight to six four and a half days a week
yes
you know
and they're astounded at the hours that i work
right
well that tends to be true of of uh anyone who's in business pretty much for themselves
uh you know a lawyer has that same type of of freedom uh i would think an accountant does
it's just when you have to to compete then you have to your uh guidelines are set by other people
but i think we got away from from children
a little bit there
i think so
but i'd of had to know it twenty years ago
well i'm on my second career currently and i'm i'm just too old to start a third or too tired
uh i don't know that i'm too old
but i'm too tired to start a third career
but you have all this fun to look forward to in the future
oh yes
just very oh yes
very much
uh what kind of puppy
did you get
yeah
serious dog there
well i don't know puppies and children really do go together
believe me
i've always been a dog person and in fact i am watching my what i everybody says is my dog even though it's the family dog
[licking] my son's face now
well that will be some of it
but you know those my daughter is eleven
and i look back on those times when we first brought her home from the hospital
and she was a night person from day one and still is today uh but she would wake up during the night for her middle of the night feeding and i'd i'd get up and go get her and clean her up and you know change her [britches] and take her in and let her mother breast feed her
and then i'd take her back and
all right
well i'll just start by saying that we we spend our time you know having a formal dinner on on the weekend
and that's when we try and get together
it might be breakfast it might be
and we try and talk about things
and we we have dinner every night too
but not everybody is always there
our daughters are fifteen seventeen and twenty
and um they are at home
um our oldest daughter is going to be a senior at s m u
so she's home for summer school and living at home um right now
and we we but we very rarely do things as a whole family
yes
yes
we used to like
yeah
oh yeah
we we used to like to go to
oh [parades] the circus um you know we used to like to take them to the park
um we had a we have a swimming pool at our house which we've had since they were very small
so we we have many memories of swimming uh together in the afternoons
you know
and by the pool and the girls uh learned to swim when they were real little you know three
and
yes
they had their their pool parties um so that was one of the things we did together was the most uh i guess the most often was swim by swim in the pool
that's
oh that's great
if you like to do those two things
very easily
yes
yes
i think you will enjoy that
i we never camped and we we aren't we aren't into boating either
uh mainly because my husband doesn't like boats that much
and he uh it's mainly what i you know what he wanted to do
and and he's a swimmer
he's a golfer
so uh
well he has taken them out on the golf course
but he hasn't and they've never showed any any real interest
it's got not enough action
for for the children you know
so um but we we like to um but now you know now next weekend
we're taking them to a show we're taking them down to fair park to see chorus line
and that's kind of their reward for a school year
successful school year
so we're we're doing that
but um but i you know as far as having a family
it sounds like you've got some good ideas
how about your families are they close by your your um
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
that's nice
four dogs
well that's
yeah
i think that's i think that's a bridge that everybody uses to get used to taking the responsibility of caring for something and then that's great
yeah
that's cute because i know our dog
i didn't think he got fed this morning
but our our daughter fed him because we have we have two daughters that are away right now they're at a camp
uh uh not a camp they're on a choir tour
that's were they are so they're they're gone
so it's just me and our older daughter
here this week
but um but you will um i i think that's neat that you're going to start a family and and um
and and i know everybody around you your family will be very supportive and very anxious too
i'm sure
i i have to tell you that um grandparents are very important to have close by
i think
and ours were never close by
that's interesting
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well how old are your parents now then
yeah
yeah
well that's exactly how old my parents are
yeah
and uh but but they are the [reversed] my dad's seventy five my mom's seventy well actually my mom's seventy two my dad
yeah
i'm sure i'm sure they are
yeah
isn't that wonderful
oh you must have such great memories of that that is so good
isn't that that's really interesting
oh that is great
i
because that's very that's rare
yeah
because i was the i'm the oldest of four
and we had a we have a very close knit family
and i i just i am just very blessed but being the oldest i had you know the responsibility of of doing a lot
i have two younger brothers and a a younger sister so um
yes
yes
well you'll well you have your niece your nephew
and to to look at that and and learn from that
and you can read lots of good books
but um but that's real fun
so
and you're in carrollton yeah
and where what what church do you go to
do you
oh good
yeah
so
are we
yeah
we've been in plano for thirteen years
and uh our kids have grown up here
and i think i think plano
i think the fact that you have the boating
and the camping is a good good thing i think it's hard for parents to find things to do with their kids
once the sports aren't there
you know anymore
like we have we always have the baseball games to go to that the kids are in and the
you know tee ball soccer stuff like that
but uh after as they get older
it's harder to find things to do together
yeah
oh oh that's great
well where do you go camping
oh yeah
well i was just down near there
i i had to drive to austin
last week and on last thursday as a matter of fact my i saw the sign
and uh i didn't know it was pretty
i just i
well that's good
yeah
and they have campgrounds and
yeah
yeah
yeah
well that's interesting
i am not timing this conversation because i guess you're supposed to be in control it says
and
well this is my first call
so um
yeah
yeah
i i enjoy uh this is really going to be a neat thing i think
but um i
it's it's i think i'm going to need a pencil you know to to jot down what they say in the beginning
and that because it's hard
they're
it's like
hi
yeah
no
unfortunately my husband and i are both only children now we do have like some cousins that are we are kind of close to
and sometimes we see the cousins children
you know that's going to be the closest nieces and nephews that we can come up with is our cousins kids they do not live close to us
but uh uh as a matter of fact we were going to ask uh his one cousin to try to make plans to have her kids come maybe visit this way for a few days
and of course you know things sometime you get to be the uh the tourist folks
and we will take them to six flags take them to wet n wild
i mean they may not be real quality time
but
yeah
it will be a real treat for them you know to kind of come and do that because they live in east texas
so they will be something real out of the norm
and i used to uh used to have a neighbor in one apartment complex i lived in and she had at the time her kids were like eleven and nine and five
and i used to spend a lot of time with her and her kids
we used to go to the pool all the time
it was an apartment complex
so we used to the pool
and you know just kind of play around and do uh water games and you know uh have [picnics] out there that kind of stuff that was our normal thing we also uh she had gotten one of those uh laser disc players
and we used to get uh some movies which is kind of hard with kids sometimes to you know get some movies that are enjoyable for the kids and not always a strict disney thing
you know when you get eleven and nine year olds they want something a little more active than a cartoon [milo] and [otis] what
is that with the animals like the dogs
i have seen bits of that like on uh cable or something picked it up
i think somebody was showing it recently
um that sounds cute
well we had one silly movie that we used to watch a lot
cause they were kind of expensive when she got that player uh we did not have too many movies we used to watch airplane over and over and over again
i mean
have you ever seen that movie
it's real silly
but um in the it's fairly clean
there was only one little section of it that they probably edited for t v
but uh we used to watch that a lot
i mean that was just real kind of flap stick kind of fun stuff
we used to watch that with her kids
some you know there uh her kids
i remember one summer cried all summer long
they wanted to go to six flags you know
and they see these ads on tv uh six flags looks wonderful
and we took them there
and then they were too scared to get on the rides they would not get on any of the rides even if they were you know tall enough they did not want to get on any rides and they cried all summer long when are you going to take us to six flags i want to go to six flags
then they kind of [chickened] out
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh
uh_huh
oh
well you know one thing that that you know i kind of say we have only been married a couple of years
but um you know i think so many times in the past you know like even forty fifty years ago
i mean it was just expected or kind of pushed upon people you get married and you have kids
whether or not
there was something inside you really wanted to do
and i i like it now that people make the decision you know
okay
i am going to be married and then yes or no whether i have children
it's not so much a society [dictating] to you do this you know it's everybody is supposed to get married and have kids
if you do not want kids fine do not have them
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i mean uh you hear people well there are some people that marry later
and then they are very set in their ways
and there are activities that they do
and well i really do not want to make that sacrifice i have you know been single all these years
and
or you know we have been married and we have all of our activities and i do not want to change my whole life
or i came from a family that i had a very bad childhood
and i do not know that right now i could have children and cope with it
i have too many bad feelings with my own childhood
and maybe i will turn out to be you know abusive like my mother was
so they say you know i i do not feel that i want to do that
which is fine you know i i think that's a wonderful decision on their part if that's how they truly feel not you know everybody saying when are you going to have kids
it's none of your business
it's my option to do that you know you do not just have ten kids because you know you are supposed to somehow as of the old days
yeah
my mom was from a family of of ten and she was the youngest
and her dad was like sixty when she was born
and she said you know
so there was hardly anything from her father there was like twenty years between her father and her mother her father was sixty
and her mother was forty so you know it did not make the best situation for her you know to have uh you know good family kind of situation there
she had brothers and sisters that kind of like pushed her around a lot because they were so much older
yeah
it was not the best situation
but yeah
right
right
although i mean we are we are in our late thirties now my husband and i
and we are still considering it
and you know i think that i have kind of done the right thing i mean i have i was just really shocked to have a cousin who is a bit younger than i
and she was one of these types out of high school you know
okay
you have three boys
i have two boys and two girls my youngest is college age
but he's so he's still around occasionally
but uh he's he's twenty two
and it's his last year of college
but uh we were very active with them when they were young whatever they were in gymnastics or soccer or baseball or basketball whatever we were always involved in the parent club and [coached] some and went to all the games and and of course in plano
that's a big deal
we'd even where we lived in albuquerque before
there's a lot of parent involvement in the children's lives
how about where you are
oh
oh my
right
oh dear
yeah
he's learning from the big brothers
huh
that's neat though
and sometimes those that
see their older brothers do it turn out to be pretty good because they pick up skills seems naturally you know
they they start so young just kicking the ball and are are you pretty involved with with their uh do you coach them or go out to parent nights
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
right
right
right
right
well that's seems to be a a pretty current trend i i work in the schools and i see a lot of kids that obviously are looking for a family and usually find it within a group at school rather than at home because their parents are off working or uh you know a lot of times it's a single mother trying to raise
and of course i i deal with adolescents
so that's where it fourteen fifteen that's where it really starts coming out this lack of of uh family life
well they look for their security
and their uh self esteem uh outside of the home
and usually in the wrong groups
and and uh
right
and they find that they're very easily
unfortunately uh the kids who make them feel the most welcome when new students come into school are the kids that are are uh on drugs or party a lot on weekends and things like that
and and uh they're the
but they are the first ones that will come up and say you know you want to sit at my table in the cafeteria and let me help you to your classes and things like that
and and uh when you've got a a child that's just coming from a situation a move is a terrible thing on a child
it's it's just such a traumatic especially if they've lived for any length of time in the first place
and they come up here no friends and here are these people just throwing themselves
and before you know it
you've got a a kid involved in things you don't want them involved in and and most of the time the move is made and then mom and daddy go right back to work right away
and the kid's coming home to an empty house or they're coming home to take care of little brothers and sisters
and and uh you've got these ready made friends just ready to go
and and uh i i don't know what the answer is
because i am a working woman and and i don't like to say if the women would stay home any more than i like to say if the men would stay home
and and
right
when my youngest was in third grade i went back to work
but i stayed home up until then when by that time
my oldest was oh she's about six years older than he is
so she must have been in about uh tenth grade
i guess
my oldest was
and i had one in tenth one in ninth and one in eighth and then this third grader
and and uh but i went to work for the school district where i was home in the summer
i had two weeks off at christmas
i left school at four o'clock every day and was home to take them to anything they needed to go to in the afternoons
uh no
in the schools
i i uh
i did work some summers
but it was never my work never took first place
if if my kids needed me or needed to go somewhere that's where i was
uh i when my youngest was in elementary school i worked at in his elementary school for three years
and uh but i had an understanding with the principal
but under no circumstances was i to be treated any differently
i don't want i said i don't want teachers coming to me in the middle of the day when they couldn't get to anybody else's mother in the middle of the day that that it would be handled the same way they dealt with other other kids
it it gets real easy when a mother is in a school or a father even for a teacher to every time some little thing goes wrong to run and pretty soon all you're hearing is negative things
so it you know
and those things need to be dealt with in the classroom by the teacher and not [tattled] necessarily but it it it worked well
it worked well with me
and i and i told the principal i said if if uh my student my child does something that you feel deserves licks or some other discipline have at it
you know i'm i'm i have always wanted them to respect rules and teachers and and uh i don't want them to think that i'm going to come riding to the rescue every time something happens
but
right
well i think unfortunately what what we're seeing in the very few of the instances is that for the parents who cannot be there to parent during the day their idea of parenting is to come riding to the rescue and take their child's side without knowing the whole story or even when they do know the whole story
it's it's either another [student's] fault
or it's another it's a teacher's fault
or it's anybody's and they consider that being a good parent
and that when really what the child needs is their attention more of the time
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
it it it's
and it's difficult
i understand
i i know a lot of single women that are working two jobs just to keep a roof over the kids' head and keep food on the table and i don't know how these women are supposed to have time to to parent it's it's
i don't i don't know what the answer is to it it's it's really sad
i there may not be
it beats being
it beats being homeless
okay
well we're supposed to talk about
okay
things things you like to do with your kids
right
i bet
i do
and i i i don't know
and you're from texas
and you know what it is snowing we have a three inches of snow on the ground
it's so cold
oh
is it cold like what sixties
oh gee
it is supposed to be eighteen degrees tonight i was thinking about you
on the way home from our class
just got home from our computer class
hey what are the chances of this happening
how many people do you think
i think oh that is just too funny
oh isn't that great
that's just wonderful
well i wrote you a little letter on the latest update so
yeah
yeah
they they have a board meeting tomorrow
so we may know more tomorrow
but anyway just for now you know it's just anyway it's in the letter
so and your [rejuvenating] cream
so i know you have been
and i just couldn't talk last night
oh oh you have to
in fact when nicole was having her problems with not starting you know we prayed a lot
and we prayed as a family on the way to the tournament what night did we i guess on the way to the [sela] game last thursday which they're kind of our big [rivals] and we prayed that she would get to start
and that she would play well
and she did she played the best i've seen her play
and as consistent as i've seen her play
and but we prayed as a family
we i made all the kids go because you know all they boys sometimes don't like to go and it was just great
and her little friend was there and in fact i've got to talk to her
and we just got home and to see if she talked to him today and stuff
because see he had a soccer tournament out of town yesterday
so he had to get up at six o'clock in the morning and they got home at one thirty
i told you
she just ran in the house
okay
and let's see
and what you like to do with your kids is go to their sports
basketball
orchestra tennis
golf
yep
is dave is dave playing racquetball
oh that's great
how's barry doing with his weight is he working out
yeah
he's he's going to be a while getting settled
you know getting things going
oh bless his heart
this lady over d w she's so bad
keep your keep your keep your ears and eyes open
it's a great stepping stone it's a great stepping stone oh i got a one hundred percent on my test
my test for my class my computer class that
dan and i are going to
we got them back
this is from last week
so we're i'm pretty [jazzed] because i got a eighty two on the first one
and dan got a ninety two
and so
and then we both got a one hundred on this last one and i thought it was harder than the first one
but we studied a lot more so
yeah
we're pretty [jazzed] yeah
tonight we learn spreadsheets and last week we the last three weeks
we've been doing data base
oh
it's pretty darn neat
oh
yeah
oh yeah
well we're just really basic basic basic stuff you know
and our teacher his wife is the one of the teaching leaders of the bible study fellowship
yeah
and i
and i've had her been
and i thought i recognized the name
oh he's just the most wonderful man
and we weren't even in his class to start with
and then it just
i mean the way god works
you know we ended up in his class and we just couldn't be happier
i mean he's just a marvelous teacher
yep
oh and library went well today
yes
harold reynolds who's a [mariner] baseball player
uh came to school today
and they had lunch in the library of all things
my library got it all dirty
and anyway so that was kind of neat
and then adam wasn't one of the kids they just picked at random kids from different classes
and adam uh uh got to come in
because mommy was the librarian you know
so he got lots of [autographs] so that was pretty cool
so they had a good time
he didn't have one of his cards
but he had a a baseball
so he signed his baseball he signed his shirt and some kid had him sign his clothes
all of our children are um uh about two of them are back in the house now
but they're all grown twenty one and over
so uh
i guess like everybody else soccer games and all sorts of games and carpools and traveling and uh we we seem to be together enough
uh was there was always one parent here at least because um we would never usually leave together
and i usually work teach at night and my wife was here in the daytime
i mean at night and then i was here most of the day if they were when they were here
so they didn't spend a lot of time by themselves
three
two girls and a boy
so
oh you are
well we had uh they were all away
and now there's uh one is coming back from college
and the other one has just graduated back home
so
uh_huh
oh absolutely
yeah
that's the we didn't have a t v for three and a half years when they were in early school for some reason
and they did so much better
and then we went back to t v's you can just see it that
uh_huh
where did your kids go to school
oh
they weren't
here in north dallas huh
oh
uh_huh
yeah
well i don't know that i i just uh that's that that t v is probably one of the problems
and then both parents working and uh that's a
i don't think a good situation
but i don't imagine that will change
right
that's right
if you had to work
uh it's just almost impossible especially when they get up to the age where they have so many things they want to do on their own
so
uh_huh
so uh well my all three of mine ran sports
so we spent a a lot of time with the different sports activities
because they all played and uh now they're all in college or one two one out and two in still in college
so
uh_huh
yeah
so well we probably if they're alive and kicking we probably did a decent job
right
uh
absolutely
that's true
so anyway well
oh great
yeah
i would hope so
yeah
that will be
yeah
that will be fun
look forward to that you're going to fly out there
oh you are
oh i've done that a few times
that's a tough drive
sure
you just going to try to spend the uh spend the night somewhere
well we always stopped at [pecos] that seemed like it was a good oh yeah
well that will be great
so well anyway it's good to talk to you
i don't i don't know
i think
they usually come on and say something
don't they
well that's all right
how long have you been with uh t i
oh
oh okay
i teach history
yeah
so uh
yeah
there's not not many people like it
but it's uh you can get them
get them hooked on it
it's pretty good
uh the boy is
no
we were never blessed with children
we had a foster child for a while
and we're real active
in church with some of the young people
i hear i heard one of yours
so you have a considerable range of of interests and activities and so forth
that's terrific
you know that's not
i i have heard that that's not done enough these year these days
when we had our foster son he was uh uh two and a half to three and a half that that year
in there and we read every night because we just felt like that was important to spend time with him
there's so little time one on one time these days
with the mechanical or or the electronic uh games and and t v and so forth to draw folks away
did they have them memorized
and and know if you're [skipping] a page
yes
on nights when it was already really late
and i'd try to short circuit it
it was no no no
i i totally agree
now there are some wonderful programs for children and when i had a foster son
i was baby sitting i had four under the age of three
we ended up using television couple times a day when sesame street was on to entertain them
but also to do some learning things
and then we [reenforced] that then with with some of the things that we were involved in if i was in the kitchen and and so forth the little girl wanted to emulate everything i did
and so and we talked about the letters and numbers and so forth
so we used it as a tool but not i won't say i was perfect
it wasn't ever used as a baby sitter while i was busy with one of the others
but yes
oh
i hadn't thought about that
we did we went camping
and then richard and i did that all through our our twenty years together too
so it was something that carried over from both our backgrounds
and into our current life
your your pillow fights reminded me though when when i was growing up
uh we we spent four years in utah
and then we went from there to germany and and it was even further north
and uh daddy used to rough house with us in the winter time with us
he'd get on the floor and just you know play [tickle] games and and and hug and cuddle and that was important to do that bonding and i never thought of that till you mentioned the pillow fights but we'd get everybody involved in that
well it was just my brother and i
and we thoroughly enjoyed that that time spent with daddy that we didn't get to see him very much at all
do you have outside the home activities that that you do with the the family
yeah
my children are in their late twenties and both are married and we do things as a family all together
and when they were younger we were very involved in little league and scouts and band and football and things you know i have two sons things that you do together
yes
one lives in plano
and the other lives in lewisville
with their wives
right
well i my husband and i always felt that if you want to keep them off the street so to speak that if they're involved in smaller group type things that um it really is wonderful
as far as socializing and learning and just keeping out of trouble
i work at a high school and i see a lot of kids who because it's a large school
you just sort of are a little teeny fish in a big pond here
and if you belong to you know a smaller group you you just have a better class of friends and and stuff
and i think it's wonderful
i i admire you
it's a lot of time out saturdays sundays and nights
but it it definitely is worth the the time to get your kids involved in in various things
oh yes
right
the social socialization is is worth whatever it is they're learning and it you know my kids never were on the championship teams they were both in the band they happen to have graduated from the school where i work and and um all those things have served them and still are you know in their adult years
and in college uh you know that they just they remember lots of good times
and um we still hear frequently from former [teammates] or band members
or you know people who stop by and say hi to my husband and i and uh so are you active with
i mean do you coach any of these things
or
oh
well it it does
and and um but as i say i i really feel to keep them away from the bad element at school or just at the mall or wherever uh every every hour pays off in the long run as far as uh keeping the kids out of trouble
and and uh and i see
frequently see that here just because it's a high school and and uh you know kids kids get in trouble there's no
that's right
that's right
they also you know have parents that either can't or don't care about their activities and don't support them
and and uh over the years
my kids have had friends like in the band that in in three years of high school band their parents never saw a football game to watch them i think i i we never miss a game we still go and the last one graduated in nineteen eighty two
so but we still you know go to watch these things
and uh it's a lot of hours for a parent
right
right
right
but it it
i recall my own parents being active in in my endeavors and uh you know i think you you just can't spend enough time with kids in in quality time as i like to call it
and and uh you know it's worth every every hour every so you have two children
a boy and a girl
how old are they
okay
well see mine are twenty seven and thirty
so
well start saving your money for college
uh no
i don't i don't
no
no
i'm i'm in college i am just a
sophomore in college
oh okay
uh_huh
have you
that's great
uh_huh
oh that's great
how old are they
uh_huh
yeah
that's great
yeah
that must be nice
oh yes
i baby sat all the time for uh for uh my last year in high school my full time job was going over to a neighbor's house and baby sitting their children until they got home every day
and uh
right
they were they were seven and nine years old
both boys
so we played we did stuff like play softball and frisbee and that kind of thing
and sort
i sort of watched them you know ride their bikes and that kind of thing
they were [outdoorsy] types
right
right
right
well that's nice
well that's good
uh_huh
uh_huh
none of them have started school yet
oh really
really
uh_huh
oh yeah
well that's that's great
i'm i'm in physics
yeah
oh no
i don't think i will be out of school for a long long time
uh_huh
oh yeah
i will be too
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh not really my uh my parents are divorced
and my father uh us dating a woman who has a two year old boy
and uh
yeah
it is
real different
but they go they just went to disney world he was in florida
so they just went to disney world this weekend
and they they do some fun stuff together go to the zoo and that kind of thing
really
no
i've never had children
that's all right
i'm opinionated
i'm opinionated
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
five
wow
uh_huh
well you had to have something to even it out there
had to have something to even it out
right
i was going to say that's a black forest [cuckoo] clock you have
i could tell by the sound
airline pilot for what airline what airline really
my dad flies american he's retiring in april
yeah
oh twenty some odd years
twenty four twenty three something like that
well he'll he'll enjoy the the freedom that that kind of a job gives you
course
yeah
that's what my dad says you know as soon as he is retired he's going to you know hire some hire an airplane because he really likes to fly
huh
yeah
well i'm thirty seven uh we can't we tried
but it's just not going to happen
well we have animals and we have chickens and dogs and cats and birds and yeah
we have a little you know just about ten acres out here out you know about ninety miles north
and uh west of dallas
so it it's got
it's it's a lot of fun
i'm building our house right now
well i was you know contractor for past fifteen years
doing uh anything from you know [bagging] concrete for a pad or uh you know i did uh couple of complete remakes of a house you know tore down and started over almost on one of them
yeah
my uh specialty is in [restoration] and uh i figured well i'll build myself a house
and you know i i'm doing it
now as a matter of fact
i just got out of the shower
um
no
not not that close they don't televise that down here
well we don't take cable
i mean it would cost
a fortune
see we're they just put the phone in four years ago
you know there was no phone service for
ten miles
yeah
we are crazy as they say you know
uh_huh
i went to salt lake once
and i was very young i guess we were about seven or eight
but uh
oh yeah
raising kids
i think first thing you ought to do is [unplug] your t v set and give it to the [salvation] army
they watch entirely too much t v
yeah
yeah
yeah
but i've worked well i work and live in the denton area in the denton texas just north of dallas
and uh you know i'll tell you i went to i graduated from the university of north texas a couple years ago
so
okay
so what is the subject now
okay
well let me tell you about our our situation uh we have two girls uh one is twelve
one is uh uh eleven
and i have got uh two sons that are uh six and three
and uh between the four uh my two girls play a lot of soccer and we travel a lot with them
and they are either practicing or playing
and and it is really tough to fit everything in
and uh you know i am not real sure what your situation is if uh you have any kids that are still at home
but
uh_huh
oh is that right
uh_huh
oh
you bet
it sure makes a big difference doesn't it
yes
yep
it sure is
we have uh in fact this this past uh christmas we went out to california
uh both my girls were involved in tournaments out there
so we went out there and we spent christmas with my wife's family out there in california then uh we drove out to or down to southern california and had the tournament and went to disneyland as a family and just kind of you know spent time together that way
yeah
you get my wife just said to tell you that your grandson is beautiful
they be blessed yeah
i know that would mean a lot to to brian he is a heck of a nice guy
i really enjoy uh being friends with him
he's
is that right
when did he find time to learn how to do brakes
he just helped me do my brakes
yeah
he is
yeah
uh_huh
well that's great
yeah
um my work uh fortunately my work doesn't take me away from this area
so i have uh i have some time i own my own business out here
so i have some time to just spend with them you know whenever the time
whenever they need me
but uh i know that there is quite a few people in our family that uh or in our area that uh work outside and they have even a tougher time trying to uh schedule time with their family
okay
i'm i am not sure if our time is up or my phone just went out of
out of whack
i think that was just my phone
well well they'll come back on and tell us when
the time's up
yeah
there should be another couple minutes
so
uh_huh
oh yeah
hi
hi
i'm [joan] this is a riot
i i'm making money
what are you doing
push your one
and let's get with it
okay
all right
so what do you think about raising kids you don't know anything about this
it is kind of hard for you
uh_huh
i do to
that's true
uh_huh
right
right
but i think you need to take that for the little bit of time it takes like for or about ten years out of your life of really being around them when they really need you
at their younger ages it's worth that ten years
and it pays off
i think
because the ten years isn't long
until you can work on your career and then you have forty years more to do your career
yeah
that's true
that's true
i well you know some of the um i see it with our teachers that have waited for until they're thirty four thirty five
and that first one boy
you'd think they were the only ones that ever had kids
yeah
they really love it
i think they're kind of sorry
then they didn't
that they waited that long because they really enjoy them a lot
and i see that a lot with the young girls that's think that's all they wanted was careers and then when they hit around thirty four thirty five they decide well the really wanted to try [motherhood] and uh that happens
but i agree
if they if they want a career though i think they should go with the career and forget the kids
but
yeah
right
right
are you at school now
are you
that's a riot
yes
what are some of the things you think the parents should do with their kids
right
yeah
see i think that dinner time is real important with kids
that's when a lot of things would come out
that if you
and you'd make
i know that when they're all going all different directions
but i used to at least make three three meals out of a week they had to be together
and i kind of insist on it
and they were pretty good about it
they hated to miss it because they'd hear about the good time we had if they weren't around
yeah
i do too
because that's when i don't know why
but kids start talking when you're around a dinner table and all they start telling all the things
yeah
yeah
and uh but i think any entertainment that you can do with them is fun though we we you know we always loved to go camping
and that's great
even even now we go camping in fact we have one set up in may
and the grand kids come
now it's the grand kids
i mean we started out when the kids were young doing this
and now they bring their babies um [mary's] baby was four weeks old when we took her
took him
and uh we start them out real young even
and in the winter we just take electric blankets and put them on
and they love that outdoors
yeah
and we go fishing from the time they're little
and uh the daddies take them out in the boats
it's fun
yeah
yeah
well i think any any outings with kids is wonderful
makes you get to know them better
and another thing i like is um just making sure you have time with each one alone
yeah
even you know no matter how many you have you should take a special day a special time for one
and make that day for shopping or going out to lunch or just taking them to the park alone
and you'd be surprised what they'll talk about when you're just sitting there in a swing
i have one
she's twenty months old
how many do you have
how many do you have
oh
they probably are but maybe you can give me some insight and i can remind you of the old times huh
yeah
well i've heard that it only gets worse
my husband and i sit around thinking gosh you know what are we going to do when she starts going out and having friends
and going to school and getting exposed to all the other things out there
yeah
yeah
it's more complicated
yes
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
um
how long does that last how long does your meeting last
that sounds like a good a good way to do it
right
yeah
uh_huh
what kind of things do you do on the family activities
uh_huh
yeah
right
it's getting quite expensive to do that these days
yeah
did you drive there
yeah
yeah
yeah
true true
yeah
my husband wants to go on a family vacation we're on the east coast like you
and he wants to go out to uh the grand canyon and do that sort of thing when [helen] gets a little older
but it's hard to tell i've at twenty months old
he's he wants to take her to the zoo and that sort of thing
but i'm not sure if she's ready for any of that if she's you know if it could hold her interest
so we don't really have anything any kind of family activities to do
we basically just sit around the house
and she runs from one to the other
and we read to her
that's something she enjoys yeah
there's not many of them out there though like was when i was young
i mean there was a playground just about in every neighborhood
but i don't even know where one is around here anymore
yeah
yeah
that's a good idea
uh_huh
yeah
um probably
probably be very hard to be the instructor
how many children do you have
okay
we've got one
he's uh thirteen weeks yesterday
yeah
oh
okay
from beijing
oh okay
pardon
yeah
yeah
it's not not real [toasty] here either
but i imagine it's a good deal colder in iowa
yeah
is that where you're from originally
okay
yeah
right now uh our son's just dealing with [grunts] and [squeaks] and [grinning] and crying
and actually no
he sleeps real well at night
yeah
he'll he he generally sleeps through the night uh he'll go down about well he don't doesn't go down till about ten ten thirty which is a little tough when you got a lot of studying to do
but uh
he'll uh he won't get up till like six o'clock uh somewhere between six and eight in the morning
he'll be [ravenously] hungry by then
but he's really a [jolly] little fellow and sleeps through the night too which is a real blessing it it took about the first four weeks before he started that which i don't think it was quite [coincidental] but he started sleeping through the night about the time we took him out of our bed and put him in a crib in in the next room
suddenly he started sleeping through the night
almost consistently yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's good
that's good
pardon
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's got to be a a lot of fun
yeah
yeah
uh uh it's you know
yeah
yeah
well they they the children are going to eventually wind up training themselves
but uh they can be trained into it pretty early too
so i remember some of the strange potty training experiences when i we were growing up amongst the brothers and sisters
so
and we're almost kind of not looking forward to that
anyway
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
oh that's good
yeah
how many children do you have
and i have three what do you have boys girls
i have
uh_huh
i have two girls and one boy
do you have grandchildren yet
oh i got ahead of you there
i got three
and one on the way
no
but uh i know when my children were growing up we did spend a lot of time together
uh school activities and my my boy was in hockey
and of course the girls and and uh myself
we rooted you know we didn't participate
but we did a lot of family things together
we had animals for the children you know our horses and that kind of thing
and uh school activities type stuff
uh_huh
uh_huh
did you find the time to attend
oh yeah
we did too
i think that's kind of the key don't you
i think that's kind of the key is to not be in the big city
right
and yep
we did that too
and the children where um when in fact when my youngest was about two
we decided to get out of the city and go to the country
i mean it's not as vast a country as like you know where you people are from
because i lived in abilene for a little while
and uh i know what nothing is when i moved out there
you know it the city itself is great
but i mean you go in the in the uh car for a drive
and you could see nothing for miles and miles and miles
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
but they at least they had the background
and the the home uh the family type unit you know
and i think when kids have that they don't get into as much trouble or seek to
you know do other things that are really not good for them you know
yep
same here
no
no
i know i'm so happy that i had mine had mine when i did
and that i'm not having them now
i think about it
no
no
and plus i think that the uh the husbands and wives both having to work
it's not a matter of choice anymore
i think most people
yeah
and uh it that takes so much time away from your kids
of course at the at the time i worked third shift to be with my kids during the day
you know and then uh my uh husband was with them at night
so they were always with a family member you know
and baby sitters and uh day care and all that stuff kids don't really bond anymore
the mother's aren't there
oh yeah
yep
exactly
but you know uh i wonder by the time they get through paying out for all the day care center and everything else is it really worth all that
rather than to wait until the children are like in school
and then go for that type of goal
i think that too many people want everything now
like we had to save and plan
and do without and that kind of stuff where it's now the credit cards and i mean they just go and buy it you know
yep
exactly
sure
that's my point
and and i think that they should like learn how to crawl before they walk
it's it's too much it and it's too accessible and they get into it
and they're over their heads i think that's why there's so many divorces too because the money becomes uh an issue the children become an issue the jobs become an issue and it's like you know what's left
just to argue and that type of thing you know
i do i do
they're like between a rock and a hard spot
it really is awful
i think maybe the company should do more with day care centers and that type of thing
it might bring families closer
or mothers to children you know because they're able to spend some time
at
yeah
yeah
i think that's great
because i mean you know you you it's less guilt you feel knowing that you have to leave them everyday if you can go in and see them for ten or fifteen minutes around a lunch hour or just know they're close by
you know it's it's very hard
well it was nice chatting with you
yes
i do i do
no
i do
yeah
i work in uh building twelve in [attleboro] uh
oh you should come
it's it's a it's a nice place in the summertime though don't come in the winter
right now we're in the thirties
and we're expecting a [snowstorm] tomorrow into friday
possibly saturday
so it's supposed to be real bad driving tomorrow afternoon
oh that's terrible
i'm jealous
no
i it it's well this is the month where it's very [unsettled] because march is like between winter and spring out here it's like one minute you've got winter weather the next minute you have spring like weather everybody's got a cold
you don't know how to dress you know
so it's kind of tough
and they say that the driving tomorrow is supposed to be really bad in the afternoon
have they
yeah
yeah
oh wow
sure
sure
yeah
well uh i i can tell by your accent that you're a texan
and you know i miss hearing that
they used to make fun of me because of being you know my accent
they they try to get me to say things because they they thought i talked so funny
but you sound just like um the the children that i worked with up there
the same type of voice
yeah
right
like oil or oil
that's true
well listen
it was nice speaking with you
okay
jim
take care
yeah
i have a twelve year old son and a fourteen year old daughter
right
so uh
so it's uh an interesting experience for us
but we're kind of lucky
uh in that regard
because uh the church we belong to has a a program that they've had for quite a few years that they call family home evening
and that program is designed to uh bring the family together at least once a week on monday night
so we uh i guess i could say religiously dedicate monday evening to doing just that and each each week each one of us takes uh responsibility for that particular monday night
that it works
uh_huh
it because it turns out that monday night of all of the other nights of the week generally is the one that has the least number of other outside influences going on
so we find that it works out quite well
and uh we actually look forward to it
cause we get to spend so little time together
otherwise
and uh as i said each one of us will plan uh something for the particular monday
and it can be anything because it is kind of a a church sponsored thing once in awhile
we'll have a a religious lesson maybe once a month that alternates amongst us
but uh we might go to a movie or we might watch something here or play a game or just sit and read or uh or whatever that individual feels that they would like to do
that's what we do
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
not at all or until it's all done
or
none at all
that's that's a good
but uh that's a
good idea
right
it's hard to enforce i'm sure
huh
uh_huh
that's right
including yourself
yeah
can't let yourself watch either
that's work
uh_huh
right
we have another uh another advantage to is that uh three of the four of us are ham radio [operators] yeah
so we have a uh a hobby in common
and we can talk to one another over the air too
and on many occasions and a matter of fact we're my son and i are watching the the shuttle right now uh they've got four ham radio [operators] on board the shuttle so we've been trying to make contact with them
and it's uh it's headed towards the d c area right now
yeah
matter of fact
it's uh it's over the horizon now
uh_huh
uh_huh
right in the ham shack uh_huh
right
and that's the last you ever see of him
and uh
and he speaks a totally different language
uh_huh
well how many children do you have
yeah
that's great
that's good
how old are your grandchildren
well good
my
we have five children
and our oldest one uh will turn uh fifteen next month
and the youngest one uh will turn uh eight the end of april
so they're about the same uh range as your grandchildren
uh and so uh they're pretty busy right now we the oldest is in uh uh the ninth grade school here
uh the second one is in uh junior high third one is in uh what they call an intermediate school fifth and sixth grades
and the last two are in uh an elementary school
and it looks like we're going to have them in at least four different schools for uh you know three more years
so that keeps us busy running around sometimes are your
are yours in school near there
what kind of things have you done with the kids
yeah
well that's possible
yeah
i guess that trade off between uh you know letting them just do the things they enjoy doing or pushing them kind of just a little bit of a [nudge] so that they they um you know get into something far enough that they do enjoy it by themselves you know is a [tension] for most parents
right
right
that's right
we
uh_huh
yeah
well we found out particularly with piano we wanted the kids to take piano for a few years you know
and i said well you need to take it for for at least six so that you know whether you want to do it any more you build up enough skill that you can you make a a reasonable choice
so we pushed for a few years
but then uh then we moved and and dropped it
i hope some get back into into something
i hope so
right
most of our focus is either on some school activities or going to or our church activities and they uh we just moved here uh this summer
and so we uh we're sort of getting into things uh they've got a good number of of activities and uh we enjoy
you know transporting them to that because we really hope there's going to be some benefit from those things you know
and uh so they're they're doing that
we uh uh haven't gotten into too many civic activities where we were before they were playing soccer and uh
and uh did a little bit of gymnastics uh things like that uh here we haven't really gotten into it too much uh we may later on sometime if
you know they show particular interest
sure
that's right
yeah
well i uh i don't know about the time we spend with them
seems like we're with them all the time
if
we're not here you know not working you know uh
but uh i'm sure they'd like more
and it's hard for us it's hard to balance it you know there's some that sort of
i don't know about demand but you know sort of just take up more time just by their nature
and uh we we struggle to uh i do anyway not to work so much that i i don't give them time you know being with them and stuff like that uh sometimes it'd be just nice to come to the office and and work straight through without you know uh spending time with them
but i like you know i like to spend time with them and be with the kids and all like that
okay [liz] do you have any children
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
well we have five children
and uh their ages rain from range from twelve to four
uh yeah
and uh uh some things we like to do together with our family are um in the summer time we like to go to parks we that's our thing we pack up a picnic and and go to every park from northern utah to southern utah
well mostly mostly just play parks then
so
um with the with the kids and such
we don't get a lot of vacationing in
so we just like to take little weekend trips
and go to parks and such
so
oh uh_huh
yes
when i was a teenager i spent some time with my cousins in dallas
and so i i remember it's pretty it is flat
oh
uh_huh
yeah
well we like to
weekends um
no
we're not into skiing
it's just too expensive
we we can't do that
so
um we like to uh rent videos
and sit down and have a video [bash] pop popcorn and and do that
so we've done that quite a bit this winter
and um we like to play board games together
sometimes it's a little difficult with the younger ones
um but the three older boys
we have some fun times with those
after the little girls go to bed
and let's see uh we like to get real wild and crazy and play hide and go seek
and
oh
yeah
things like that
oh yes
yeah
yeah
he's really patient though he with us
he's a real fun twelve year old
but he's rapidly approaching [teenagehood] so we'll see what happens
yes
uh_huh
oh
oh boy
oh
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
oh
how fun
oh
oh i think that's fun
oh
oh
yeah
yes
i think that is good that sounds
uh_huh
now were you able to get away on some vacations and
oh
oh how fun
oh
oh how fun
uh_huh
oh wow i agree with that
well i first of all i'd i admire you for
i have a few friends who are single parents and i just don't know how people do it
that's is a tremendous burden to be working and have two kids to take care of
and i don't know how you did it
but um i have a six year old that's
well she's in first grade
and then i have a three and a half year old and um i have always been a big advocate of spending tons of time with my kids
and um when i my first one when she was born
i had to work part time for a while because we had to have the extra money
but when the second one came along
i was fortunate enough that i i quit and i've been able to stay home and um no
no
i don't work
yeah
so i one of those few old fashioned moms
and we uh i spend the whole day with [tara] and we go and do things
and we read books and we play
and you know it's just it's great
and i did the same thing with taylor uh who's my first grader
she's also a girl
and uh i i think i can tell a real difference
um taylor has excelled in school
like i just i never imagined she would she's at the top of her class in everything
even though she's almost a year younger than almost all the kids in her class
and i really feel like that
um time i spent with her
i mean she probably already had a lot uh of it in her
but you know we spent a whole lot of time together reading books and doing a lot of things i think it helped her to feel real good about herself and feel like she could she could do it you know
so it's it's been real rewarding for me anyway
oh i'm sure
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
well it is you know as a matter of fact i think i'm real bad about looking ahead and thinking oh i don't ever want them to grow up and you know go away to college and all that kind of thing
but at least i'm really making the most of the time while they're little
and um everything taylor even attempts to do
you know we go and watch her and support her and that was something
my parents weren't able to do
and i resented that because i would be in
i was always in plays in high school and in all kinds of drama
and they could never come and watch me
and that just was so hard for me
so i made a [vow] that when i had kids no matter what they did i was going to be there you know and see them do it
so it and like you said it's fun
i really enjoy it
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i feel i feel really thankful that i can i mean we have had to really lower our standard of living you know we have friends who have beautiful homes
and we have a very small old house
but i just to me that's not important because i feel like we'll have plenty of time to get us a nice house some day and i won't have these you know these little kids all my life
so um i just i have been willing to make the sacrifices and my husband has too
and so it's not been a problem for us
right
well it's interesting
we're real involved with a church group
and so most of our friends are uh church friends
and they're the majority of them do stay home uh almost all of my friends i can call any time of day and they're home
but um the the friends that i've kept in contact with from you know when i did work and they're still working moms you know
uh that i feel like i real big uh difference in opinion with some of them because some of them work just because they enjoy working you know they they don't really have to work
they just want to they like to get out and they don't want to be with their kids all day
and and that's hard for me because to me
they're giving up something
so
precious you know
and um so any time we talk get on that topic i have to be real careful because i'm afraid i'll say something to offend them
but um most of my friends do stay home so that it's kind of nice
we we have a big support group around here
yeah
it is
i don't know how long everybody will be able to afford to keep doing it
but if
i guess you just get used to you know living
however you have to live to
yeah
right
yeah
yeah
well i intend to uh i think when they're both in school i may
i have a degree to teach and um i've never used it because i was pregnant when i graduated from college
and i've always had you know been home with kids or worked part time
but um i might go into like substitute teaching or something because yeah
yeah
and i can choose they say as a substitute you can tell them the days that you're interested
and you know the days you're not you don't have to
so
right
yeah
because i have a feeling i'm not going to like it
when i did my uh student teaching i oh i hated it
i said i don't know why i majored in uh elementary education and here
i'm about to graduate and i don't even like this
yeah
yeah
it'll probably make a whole difference
and plus i didn't feel well at the time i was pregnant
and i was real sick
and
yeah
i
and you just don't feel like being around all these little kids when you are just sick to your stomach but anyway it's been nice talking to you
okay  
hi  
um yeah  
sure  
um i think i think we should have a balanced budget even if it means that services are dramatically cut back  
if you can't pay for it you shouldn't have it  
period  
and  
that's just  
uh_huh  
well  
i don't have a master charge  
thank you  
right  
but that's the problem see  
our system shouldn't be based on owing and borrowing and all that  
yes  
they would  
they just wouldn't be able to own the kind of automobiles that they think they deserve to own or the kind of homes that we think we deserve to own  
we might have to you know just be able to  
i think if we a generation went without debt then the next generation  
like if if our our generation  
my husband and i we're twenty eight if we lived our lives and didn't become you know indebted like you know our generation before us that um the budget would balance and that we became accustomed to living with what we could afford which we wouldn't be destitute  
i mean we wouldn't be living on the street by any means  
but just compared to how spoiled we are we would be in our own minds  
but i feel like the generation after us would  
oh man it would be so good  
it would be so much better  
it wouldn't be perfect  
but then they could learn to live with what they could afford to save to buy  
and if you want a nicer car than that well you save a little longer  
uh_huh  
but see we made poor choices in college  
we took out two  
both of us had twenty thousand dollars in loans for student loans  
and i look back on that  
and i bought shoes  
i went shopping  
i did not need that money  
i did not need it  
i didn't need it  
i shouldn't have even qualified to get it  
i didn't need it  
and it would have been a little rough  
i might have eaten some [bologna] instead of roast beef out of the deli  
but i did not need it  
and as i look back now now we're paying that back  
i told my son if you have to live in the ghetto to go to college do it  
but don't take out ten thousand dollars in loans  
don't do it  
and i don't i hope don't think he'll have to do that  
but i just feel like if we didn't have those loans we could have saved in the last five years the money for that  
and i believe we would have because god's really put it in our heart not to get in debt you know  
but we have friends in church that do this on a constant basis that are totally debt free  
and they pay cash for everything they buy  
including new vans  
and so so i guess i've seen it done  
and i know you can do it you know  
but you have to drive that old car until you get that money saved up for that new van  
and that's where americans don't like to do it  
and so and we don't want to cut back our services from the government because we're spoiled  
what  
i know  
yeah  
i know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that is true  
because i always think the mail never comes on these days  
and you're like well what is it  
you don't even know it's a holiday  
but isn't it federal in the federal budget  
but isn't it part of our income  
it's not part of our taxes  
it's not  
that's why it keeps going up uh  
that's another topic  
those stamps are valuable now  
that's funny  
yeah  
and that is a good short term thing though  
that little things like that that  
overall though i just think we're just going to i don't know see  
i know  
i guess i'm kind of leery of this topic because i know that bush is real for the new world order the one world government and [alleviating] all you know national debt between all of the nations  
but i see that to be a potential power problem later with um who's going to be in charge with this new world order  
and i you know i'm uncomfortable with that much power being in one place  
but i know we already have a new money system  
we already have new bills printed for  
the u s treasury already has our new bills printed for new currency  
and i've seen them  
and so i know that the long term vision for the u s government is to alleviate all national debts and to start over [afresh]  
but i'm concerned with whose going to have the power over this new world order that they keep talking about you know  
that's a lot of power for one or two people to have  
and so um i guess because i  
i guess  
in fact i know what their long term vision is  
i'm kind of like you know yeah the only answer is to start over or to totally change our lifestyles  
and i don't think americans are willing to do it  
i don't i don't feel we should loan them money  
if i i wish our leaders were really seeking the lord on these things  
and if we feel led to give a country money to help them fine  
but i don't feel we should be loaning money like that  
i mean it doesn't work i mean  
but it's not but it's not set up as a giveaway  
if it were set up as giveaway  
and it was something that i mean our our president and our leaders could be seeking god saying god is it your will for us to bless this nation with this money  
is it your will this money and your will for us to give to them  
and i believe if we gave it no strings attached that god would bless our nation  
but because we're our motive is interest our motive is not pure it just [backfires]  
i mean none of these nations have paid us back  
but you understand it's i guess it's a principle of giving and receiving  
you give it no strings attached  
and they may never give you anything back  
but because there's no strings attached it like gives them a freedom to give us something back  
and it might not be money  
it might be um no taxes on our things our computers going into their nation  
it might come back in another way  
but it would be come back  
but because we're loaning it i think that's the problem  
and i don't mean give it to everybody that asks  
use a lot of [discernment]  
don't give money to every nation  
you know what i'm saying  
i think we're loaning money to too many nations  
but i think if we gave to a few select ones that really needed it that it would work out better for us and for them  
and so now we have all these nations that owe us all this money  
and so i just think we're never going to get that back you know  
do you understand  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
long long term though do you think it would best to see a one world you know  
you can't alleviate all national debts  
or do you think it would be better for our leaders to just start seeking god on how to turn our nation around financially  
that's my opinion  
my [opinion's] the latter  
uh_huh  
i know  
what's yours  
do you agree  
or do you disagree  
or i mean what do you think long term  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
different ethnic groups  
yeah  
i know what your saying  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
hi  
okay  
you want to start  
that is very true  
however our whole economy is based on loans  
uh uh but bet right this moment you probably have several loans out  
or you have borrowed money against your credit card or something  
master charge  
but see our whole system is built on owing   not borrowing  
uh true  
but uh uh without it people wouldn't be able to own automobiles  
or they wouldn't be able to own a house  
well now i agree uh   i agree with you one hundred percent  
i'm just taking the other side so we'll have a discussion here  
uh but i still go to right back to what i said  
when is the time you had fifteen thousand dollars all at one time to go out and buy an automobile  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i have one way to suggest reducing the budget  
very simple  
just take all these civil service employees   and uh uh take some of those holidays away from them like columbus day president's day   i mean they they get all these days off  
now give them   what a a week i think we here at t i get a total of eleven a year  
and that's about uh three or four less than civil servants get  
now just look at that money the government could save if they didn't have all of those days off all those holidays  
well now don't forget the mail is something else again  
that has nothing  
they're not civil [servant] people  
no  
no  
they have their own budget they go by  
no  
that's why the price of mailing a letter keeps going up  
you know i could   i can remember the days when it cost only three cents to mail uh uh uh a letter  
yeah  
they probably  
hey  
i ought to go looking through some of my old mail  
well what about uh uh sending all this money overseas supporting other governments third world governments  
how do you feel about that  
well in so many cases it's not a loan  
it's just a give away  
no  
that that's true  
i i understand that france still owes us money from world war i  
and uh world war two debts have never been [repaid]  
i think the u s just wrote them all off  
and said well we'll cancel it just like they did to the that polish debt here uh last week  
uh uh half the countries of the world simply canceled the poland debts to help them  
uh_huh  
well uh i've got to respect your opinion  
you have some   solid ideas  
well i don't believe in a single government or a single control for the world  
uh that's asking for trouble  
people are too different  
i mean you could travel from one coast to the other here in the u s and find a tremendous differences between the peoples  
they have their own ideas how things should be run  
so therefore i don't believe there could be a single government for the whole world  
there's too many societies involved uh  
the language [barriers]  
uh-oh sure  
somebody said years ago well let's make it english uh international language  
that's a big laugh  
we can't even make english a national language here in our country  
we've got too many uh uh immigrants  
they don't call them immigrants anymore  
that was back in my [granddaddy's] day  
yes  
yeah  
but  
my grandfather came over from lithuania back uh just before the turn of the century  
and uh as a matter of fact he's a draft [dodger]  
he uh was supposed to serve some time  
well he did serve his time in the uh in the [militia]  
and he came back  
he was a civilian again  
and his father said well if  
anyway what are your what are your first comments on that subject  
what would you start cutting  
what would be the first thing you'd cut  
defense  
mean private enterprise  
have private enterprise do it  
uh_huh  
they're already talking about it  
i mean they're talking about uh having it uh as a you know business uh to uh you know to so the you know the government doesn't have to deal with it  
but uh yeah  
because i think it's all funded either state or federally funded  
so   or uh obviously  
so but uh   but see they're they don't have enough uh uh you know there's there's not enough room in these prisons and that and that uh to continue funding it  
they think they need to maybe have uh you know private you know business private enterprise come in  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
its tough to to say what uh you know what uh  
as far as this that good or bad or what  
but uh i was just talking to somebody else  
and all those european countries they pay all the way through college and stuff like that  
they  
so uh  
no  
yeah  
i know what you are saying  
but i'm just saying that even the differences uh is that you know some countries pay for students to go to through college and et cetera  
but here it you know it's just up to high school  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think the you know that's one reason uh you know we do have the education is that what it takes for these companies to bring somebody on board uh  
they're not willing to you know to put that you know   the training for only a certain amount  
so uh it's you know as far as the technical side  
but uh even like  
one one of the biggest things now is like [paralegals] and stuff  
i mean they they're trying to get more people into that field  
but they can't just bring somebody in without even having gone to you know school in that area before they can work you know for a lawyer as a paralegal  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
i i'm well i you know i'm assuming that it can be done uh  
my perspective is that you know i've been with a couple of big companies now  
and it's like they'd are [unwilling] to put the time in  
you know they want somebody you know when they then when they bring them off bring them in that they have something you know a certain amount to contribute  
obviously there's uh you know there's a lot to learn uh after that  
but but uh that's true  
i'm i'm sure there's a lot of uh  
you know businesses are small you know small businesses that could uh  
let me change my channel  
i've got a cordless phone  
let me see if that clears this up  
is that better  
okay  
yeah  
it was a cordless phone  
and all of a sudden we had a bad uh frequency there or something  
so we had some [interference]  
so i changed that  
anyway so uh  
but uh you know i think uh they maybe they need to uh help promote that more give incentives like uh if they do bring somebody on they will pay some of their costs or give tax breaks or whatever it is you know for them to train people   you know stuff like that programs like that you know  
i don't know you know what kind of options they've got  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think i just heard something the other day  
it was like only it was either sixty percent or forty percent go to college  
and then out of that percentage only so many can get their degree  
so i thought that was interesting  
but uh you know most people i knew have gone and got their degree  
so  
yeah  
well i you know i   uh was basic in a you know middle upper middle class area  
and yeah  
so i think uh that demographic area there you know a lot of them do go on  
and they go to college et cetera  
yeah  
well as as far as the you know the deficit that's a whole [nother] uh my perception of the budget you know the government  
and they have so much to spend  
and there's not enough money to spread around  
but the deficit basically is that the trade [surplus] between the other countries and that we have more money or you know more money going out and too many goods coming into this country you know  
and uh you know part of that problem i think is still you know uh  
like japan still does not let us compete fairly in their country  
and and obviously the the demand for their goods is quite high here  
so they can get their goods in here  
and uh you know to start even that out we need to continue to you know at least threaten that you know  
we're going to give them higher [tariffs] et cetera to raise their prices to you know ours  
but uh it's just that uh they're eh  
i think you're you're going to find that just because the united states you know there is such a demand here the market you know  
and uh uh the you know money being spent and the goods flow in and we don't sell you know we don't uh sell products abroad as much as we bring in  
so  
uh_huh  
uh my first comments on the budget  
i would say there has  
surprisingly no  
i would i would cut the prison systems and let them self support  
huh  
you mean the prisons  
i hadn't heard that  
right  
but to me it  
well see the other way i'm thinking about is they should be self supporting like uh the prisoners make license plates or farm or small industry inside the prisons anything to where they can be self supporting within themselves  
in other words they're in there for a purpose  
put them to work   rather than sitting there  
it's the same thing like the whole criminal i shouldn't say criminal but the whole police department of the united states  
i feel the same way  
uh someone gets picked up for drunk driving  
he should put enough in there that goes back into paying for that policeman being out there  
so it's self you know self defense on that point  
uh as far as my defense budget uh they're cutting it back now what twenty five percent  
i wouldn't want to see it cut any more than that  
but again i'd like to see something on the other end back into education but not in the education we have today  
so i'm lost on that one  
i would like to be a little more into investigating some of the other countries in the world and their educational problems and to come up with something a little better than what we've got  
well not so much pay  
i'm not trying to see the government put out any more  
yeah  
but see we don't even push the fact to the high school kids that there's other means of education out there rather than college to go either as an [apprentice] which they they do in other countries just doing it which i think would bring the education back up you know  
why not an [apprentice] out to a a company and learn from down on the bottom as a wood worker or you know just a technician  
you can learn on the job   which of course again which would mean again  
our education budget will go down if this is  
in a few years i mean it's not going to be overnight  
but that would come down  
excuse me i see it being done  
i know of a friend that works for my lawyer that has had no training whatsoever  
and she's training her  
yes  
wow  
yeah  
it sounded you were calling from around the world somewhere  
well  
uh_huh  
well that's something about what [germany's] supposed to be doing something similar to that right now  
and uh they have jobs out on you know bulletin boards so people know what is open for an [apprentices] in different fields  
but see that again would cut some of our budget down for education but build up our education with the people at people per at high school level   which i would like to see rather than so many kids getting out of school  
they're they go on the unemployment list before we have turn around   because they don't have any education  
i don't mean college  
and i'm for college  
but there's a lot of people that don't want their higher education as far as quote quote college is concerned  
they've had it  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
but there's a lot of them out there that haven't  
that's  
well it seems to me that kids that get out of high school that parents have gone to college and college here and college there that are really not interested in going to college and forced into it usually are your drop outs where if they're said hey it's just as [advisable] to go into something you enjoy and you like  
because you can get just as far as being a [journeyman] carpenter or an [electrician] or plumber or anything else like that make as much money  
and if they enjoy it more they'll make a happier life for themselves  
question  
you threw that question on me about the deficit  
put it on your shoe now  
what would you do  
were you watching  
i think uh  
one of the news stations i couldn't even tell you which one i watched but they had on there where the the output from the united states was basically from smaller businesses rather than the larger ones are [exporting]  
so how do we fix the national budget  
well  
that would probably be good  
but   something that the government hasn't been looking at is the source of the problem  
the true source of the problem is a that we do spend too much  
but also b that we don't take in enough  
uh too few americans are working  
if more americans were working and meaningful good paying labor   and paying taxes   and the tax structure was fair between the lowest and the highest income americans then we would have more money there to play with  
right  
well i hesitate to say we ought to spend ourselves to [affluence]  
but in fact in some cases that's what we ought to do  
not reaganomics thank you  
uh what i was thinking more along the lines of is start going to space  
well at some point there there will be enough jobs for most of the able bodied americans  
we also need to uh [assure] that there's some work in the private sector  
i think it would do something for it  
i think we would fill up new technologies  
but i think we should also do something rather radical  
[legalize] marijuana  
what  
yes uh  
okay  
i think it would take some of that money out of the hands of criminals  
i think it would put reduce the amount of carry on drug use where people advance from one drug to another  
i think that i think most importantly it would give the federal government something new that they could tax  
and probably a lot of  
and really receive some revenues from  
uh if you look at prohibition historically it's repeal helped the federal government a lot in tax revenues  
then i think once we put money back into the in the [coffers] of the federal government   and get the federal government to where there's money there again we should reduce the amount of money  
and this would have to come rather quickly and would have to come originally also where we're not paying  
in some cases we do pay more for welfare [recipients] to live then they can earn in the true minimum wage environment  
and you can't deny people the right to supply their families better through whatever means  
that's just sensible on their part  
it's just sensible on their parts   to go after the the the greater amount of income  
so if you lower the amount they make and raise the amount of true minimum wage jobs not those that are affected by the federal minimum wage then more people will get off welfare  
you know give them a true incentive to want to work  
and then don't start letting more outsiders in for a few years until we figure out exactly where we're at with unemployment  
reduce immigration   or eliminate it entirely for a few years until we get our own house in order  
oh absolutely  
absolutely  
that's right  
when we're in a world of hurt well i don't i'm not going to say that we ought to reduce them through legal means  
i think we ought to just tax them severely  
it seems only fair  
and i think really if we got all those that are able bodied into the work force reduced the amount going out for those purposes created new jobs for that work force there would be plenty of money  
and then at that point   quit spending on space  
force it all into the into the private sector  
that's right  
uh space was just a convenient place for me to go because that would put a lot of   a lot of  
[millspec] and nasa work operates to the same demanding specifications  
that would put a bunch of defense workers back to work  
you know what causes that  
uh no  
your your buying large uh  
the government specifications  
sheets of paper for building a pair of b v d underwear for the federal government   is twenty two foot tall  
if it was all on nine by [elevens] stacked one on top of another  
for making government issue underwear  
to just understand those legal requirements and operate within the government guidelines   costs the company a huge amount of money  
yes  
a huge amount of it is not the fault of the contractor  
uh a huge amount of what you hear on about the seventy five dollar [hammers]   and the nine hundred dollar toilet seats doesn't come from people in the industry  
it comes from senators that don't know anything about it  
uh my job is government tooling specialist  
yeah  
damned if i know  
um i don't know  
i suspect uh  
let's see  
i suspect we should do what everyone says we should do  
we should cut spending and maybe even raise taxes  
but lord knows you one shouldn't say that  
i i i suspect we should probably have an independent [auditing] agency go in and look at how the government spends money and work from there   because i because i don't think they're very good at it  
huh  
yes  
yeah  
well why do you say that actually  
huh  
yes  
rather than using taxes  
oh that's interesting  
yeah  
that's probably true  
i mean well we also we'd be spending less because all the money that that normally goes to support those people aren't working it's back in the system  
so you're right  
that's a real neat idea  
well what  
but i mean what can you know  
at at some point what can you do to sort of raise i mean to raise jobs i wonder  
oh okay  
so start  
but that's not going to work uh  
huh  
and that way just create more jobs or whatever  
huh  
well that's a neat idea  
yeah  
that's what that's what  
you think space would do that much for that  
or  
like what  
oh you think you think that would uh have a major effect  
well that would put a lot of criminals out of business for a while anyway  
that might have a uh a good effect on on on crime anyway  
that's probably true  
and probably a lot of  
yeah  
but that's potentially  
uh_huh huh  
no  
i had never thought about that  
uh_huh  
that's true we do often times they are paid more yeah  
right  
that's just what on their part  
i'm sorry  
i missed that  
oh  
uh_huh  
that that maybe true  
that's very true  
right  
right  
that's a  
huh  
yeah  
and maybe even reduce along the same lines maybe reduce imports as well i think  
i mean we don't need to buy other people's stuff right now  
right  
well that that's what happened in other country though  
and other places they tax us quite  
i mean they tax american imports quite heavily  
so we could do the same thing  
i mean just  
and you know they may get  
right  
it does seem only fair  
i mean why not  
i think so  
yes  
oh real  
oh really i love the switch  
well at that point you might we it wouldn't be a problem anymore possibly you know  
we would be   we would be able to keep it wherever we wanted to in space or the ocean research whatever we wanted to do  
but i think the  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
compared to defense  
well that's a good idea  
well it  
well the other thing and the other thing i i i think we seriously need to do is um like i say have someone go in and look and you know and find out where it is we're paying ten thousand dollars per toilet seat or something  
um greed i suspect  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
for making you mean government issue underwear  
jesus  
uh_huh  
well that's potentially a fault of the government then i mean that could things like that should  
right  
well that's a  
i had never heard that before  
right  
huh  
oh okay  
so you know about some of these things  
well i don't know if there's going to be solutions to the u s budget  
uh_huh  
yes  
exactly  
there's uh maybe some short term things that they can do  
and it hurts everybody's pocket of course  
but um i know that state has uh cutback uh raises for a year to help uh the uh state financial or whatever you might want to say to get better   in a better condition  
that  
uh state of minnesota  
so there's the potential that perhaps you know the u s budget might want to take a look at it's uh federal employees or and take a look at saying well let's freeze wages  
i mean everybody's doing it so it isn't   like uh private business has had to do it  
so   it might have to be something that they might consider doing as a that's got to be very short term  
and the only other avenue that i can think of is uh looking at where they're spending the money and not so much as saying well we're spending too much in that area as perhaps looking at what is costing them the money  
as   for for instance i think you probably remember the military getting caught um with toilet seats that cost them four hundred five hundred dollars  
and it was just  
i mean you can go to k mart and buy them for uh eight dollars or i think   six dollars or whatever for toilet seats  
so   so it gives you   idea that  
sure  
sure  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
than we think  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
it sure is  
the you know as far as  
i think there was something with the government official that went on conferences for two days  
and actually uh the conferences were nothing  
but uh you know they're getting paid for this  
and it was something more than just the conferences  
they were using it as eating out uh  
when you think about people uh taking vacations these big government officials taking descendants in congress  
the rest of them taking these vacations and using the taxpayers' money for that  
and it's a real big crunch uh  
of course when they get caught then they're you know they're guilty of course  
but uh during that time i'm sure there's hundreds of uh thousands of people that are uh spending money that does not belong to them  
so  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
exactly  
and i don't think uh it's ended up being  
i mean it gave people jobs  
but i think it also cost um quite a bit as far as because after they're done with the war a lot of things were no longer put to use  
i mean it was kind of like okay we'll do this during this point and time  
but after that that's you know uh   they didn't want to do it anymore  
so a lot of things that are saying that they're no longer going to be doing for next wars that are coming up that they did for this one in getting rid of a lot of things  
so   i don't know  
okay  
well it was good talking to you  
and   have a good evening  
uh_huh  
thanks  
bye now  
well now it's in pretty disastrous shape for sure  
it's only getting worse [exponentially]   it seems  
um  
uh_huh  
oh which state is that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yep  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
i think that there's   probably a lot of waste in defense and in government funded research in the first place  
i mean there was um people at stanford who were soaking the government you know using millions of dollars of research money   to uh for the president to buy beach homes or whatever it was  
and i think that that maybe more widespread   than   well than we'd like to have think  
but but then it's something that's hard to enforce too i'm sure  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well that's right  
uh i think that oh politicians talk a lot about waste  
but i'm not sure that that's really that much of the problem  
i mean when you look at something like the gulf war   it cost us god knows how much you know at a million dollars   a pop for patriot missiles  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
okay  
all right  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
i've got a you know  
i have a real good method of starting to get the budget balancing  
and then that's get half of the government rid of the half of the government payroll  
not all  
i you know i don't know if you've ever been to washington d c  
uh you you've seen that which was on there and the offices  
and in light of these uh hearings we've all been sitting through the last two weeks we have very definitely decided that every department there is just [overstaffed]  
they really don't have enough to keep them busy to keep their noses at in their own business of what they're doing  
and the other thing is uh besides that i think uh two things that very definitely need looking at one is foreign aid  
i have a real problem with all the foreign aid that is going to the countries that really have no use for us  
i find that a total waste and part of the defense budget  
uh again being just a voter and a taxpayer you know working through our congressman i don't think there's too much that i'm going to be able to do about it  
but i believe in taking an active part in politics  
so  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they don't they don't seem to well  
i really think the biggest problem  
and then the taft rudman act is supposed to help that  
the biggest part is they have no accountability for what they're doing  
i mean this nonsense that's coming through now about uh uh lowering payments on social security and a few other things that bush has in mind in order to boost the economy because people have more money as it's gets it's ridiculous  
if they don't have that money now bringing in less is not going to help the problem   as far as the government  
no  
yeah  
and thank god we don't operate our budget   the way they operate theirs or we'd all be in in dire trouble  
but that's uh  
yeah  
i don't know what we're going to be able to do about it  
but i guess it's sitting around so long that it's sort of like our [mortgages]  
i don't ever expect to pay mine off before i die  
so i guess why should the government  
isn't  
that's the way they're thinking these days anyway  
i i don't think it ever will really  
i  
maybe if they ever get to the point the biggest you know the biggest [outlaid] expense has always been either wars or defense  
really  
if they were to take half of what they spend on that and put it on some economic you know [intergovernmental] or inter united states like programs that one really might  
i i believe in paying my share  
and i don't mind uh paying for some of these fringe benefits that people are entitled to  
but i just i just sometimes feel like i'm being used  
but uh again i don't think we'll be able to do anything about it  
so  
yeah  
bite the bullet  
it sounds like you have a baby there  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh that's a shame  
she's not the one going to washington huh  
oh  
okay  
okay [geri]  
we've probably been on long enough  
they didn't cut us off  
but i think that will probably do it  
so it was nice talking to you  
[okey] [doke]  
bye bye  
i think that would probably uh be very possible  
and and we really wouldn't feel it in our services  
yes  
i have  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
well i  
one one thing that really bothers me beyond beyond cutting what they spend is that just really aggravates me when the big businesses do not end up paying taxes  
and the um regular normal taxpayers are you know   paying such a large proportion of of our personal income  
and then the uh corporate you know industries just don't seem to not pay [proportionally]  
i think that that would would help a lot  
i guess in a way it would [trickle] down to us in the prices of things  
but i don't know it's just hard to hard to take and you know see so much of our paycheck go out and then realize that they have all the loopholes that they can use  
and uh seems like some rather large chunks of money could come from from that direction  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
not not going to help  
it's never helped my my personal situation  
i   i can't say it would help with theirs either  
[amen]  
it seems seems to be  
i you know i  
it really does bother me when i think about you know leaving our children with with this sort of uh a national problem that we can't seem to find an an answer to it uh  
i don't know  
right  
yeah  
well that's that's quite possible  
i guess we have to have to keep [plugging] away a little bit  
or it will just totally get even more out of control  
but i i don't know  
yeah  
i i do  
she's a  
we're not feeling too well over here  
so that  
yeah  
no  
no  
she's  
i don't think i could part with her  
okay  
okay  
well thanks  
bye bye  
well i don't know what to do about the federal budget  
um there certainly have been ideas [surfaced] uh recently uh matter of fact repeatedly by many people  
and i sort of wondered what your what thoughts you had on that area  
uh_huh  
now are you are you talking about the elected people  
or are you talking about others  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
i'm not sure how you would  
how would you achieve that  
i mean if  
so you would trust the decision making [economists]  
sometimes called the dismal science  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
right  
so so you would favor a law which said there could not be lobbyists  
i mean right now lobbyists require to register you'd just say   make them all  
no causes that you think the lobbyists would be good for  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
so uh you talk about jeopardizing the future  
would you be against any deficit spending  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
but what practical steps could could one take um  
well but everybody will say that he is for that uh  
and   and how will you   make that actually happen  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
sounds like a good idea  
nothing [escapes] right  
no no   deductions nothing  
just ten percent  
yep  
right  
yep  
so that that's it  
that's i mean  
i i agree with that  
that's a good idea  
and is it your expectation that that would raise the total revenues collected or or lower them or what  
the the first one is we need people in there that that understand uh numbers the numbers that are being thrown around when when we're talking in trillions of dollars   uh which is an astronomical sum  
and and the people that are talking this numbers have no concept of what that number means  
the elected people  
yes  
uh_huh  
our our our senate and congress and and people that that deal everyday and and what's going to be done with those monies   um and don't really understand what that is or how a budget even works  
uh we need to elect people that are more uh  
or  
well let's let's make them have a degree in economy uh or economics  
well  
yeah  
but but people that that know the value of a dollar that understand the value of a dollar  
um and  
in in in  
the the uh lobbyists   needs them to be eliminated uh   from congress um  
they don't make [pragmatic] decisions  
they make a decision based on constituency   instead of a decision based on what they really believe  
um you know or they tack on this uh pork bellies and and do things that that are good for their area to pass something that is that is not good for the country  
oh i i definitely would  
yeah  
get rid of them  
totally uh  
i i think that any company or anything that wants to contribute to a fund   should be able to do that and be registered with what they ever contribute  
but they should not have a one on one relationship with the people making the decisions that affect them  
that that's a conflict of interest as far as i'm concerned  
when you are talking again uh billions and trillions of dollars   uh you're you're jeopardizing the future of the country uh for today  
that  
i i think to bring it in line you are going to have to have a generation that's going to really bite the bullet to bring it in line  
you can't ease into it  
it took years and years to build up the [momentum] that's there now  
uh i i forget the figures on the interest rate  
but it's something like uh hundreds of thousands of dollars a second   in interest  
part of the problem is we don't loan from ourselves  
we we buy from intimate international banking  
that's why we have interest  
and and i i i really feel that that that is part of the problem that we we've let things get so out of control that that we don't want to put the brakes on them  
by by having a a a budget that is is feasible that is reasonable  
oh of course  
sure  
and then add on to it  
you take the gross national income   and you say our budget is x number of percent of this gross national income  
one thing we could do is give a ten percent income tax   across the board  
everyone no matter what   pays a ten percent income tax  
uh  
that's right  
right  
no deductions  
you pay a ten percent income tax  
that's what you pay  
if you make forty million dollars uh then you're going to pay four million  

if you make forty dollars you're going to pay four dollars  
and and that's it  
i don't know that it would or wouldn't  
um short term i don't think anything's going to be done about it   or probably should be done about it  
uh the short term the recession is getting getting top attention  
and that effectively adds to whether it's officially on the books or not  
and that's got to be paid  
it can only hurt the deficit picture  
um and the the [severity] of the deficit picture already limits the options available or limits the degree of tax cutting you can do without uh bringing on on serious problems for the longer term  
so that that that's the current [predicament]  
yeah  
i'm not sure how i feel about paying on the [quest] the long term [quests] that tax cuts are worth at this point  
it's probably a judgment of how bad the recession is  
well well first of all you look to the fed to fight the recession   as indeed it has with interest rates  
well at the moment we're doing very well on inflation  
that's the sort of upside to the deficit  
that's the upside to the recession  
well can be done or will be done are two different things  
um at various places to look for for cutting the budget first of all i consider more defense cuts than are already planned   depending on the world situation  
but there are various other areas such as as farm subsidies that ought to be [slashed]  
uh a lot of [entitlement] programs like education aid i think uh they should put a in  
the reagan administration took all such [entitlements] to the poor   but left them for the middle class uh  
in the longer term uh we we we'd do well i think to make to make uh [reductions] there  
also somewhat is to collect owed to the government from various loan programs that people have borrowed  
a lot of education aid has gone to so called trade schools   which are sort of not colleges  
but schools that teach you [trades] you know [beautician]   well and often exists only because of the federal programs that they can take people and tell them they can get loans for their full tuition uh and the school gets paid off immediately uh  
and then they don't provide very much education  
yes  
yeah  
all right  
well  
right  
uh are you saying you don't think anything should be done in the short term  
yeah  
i i think that you're absolutely right there  
the other thing is is that we've got these um these all these bank [defaults] going on and and savings and loan [defaults] and and uh uh  
right  
exactly um  
exactly  
and and uh so this creates a pretty serious problem that's going to continue to be with us for a while to come  
um i'm not really uh sure that i even understand why the administration is proposing for instance tax [reductions] because it seems to me that if if if they're talking about reducing uh the tax that needs to be paid or the tax that's currently being paid then that can't it seems to me it can't possibly you know help with the the deficit picture  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
it seems like it's it's a kind of a catch twenty two  
i mean it's it's the um  
my understanding is what they're what what supposedly they're trying to do by reducing taxes is to kind of jump start the economy the idea being that if people have to pay less money in taxes they'll have more money to spend uh  
and if they have more money to spend then that will be a spur to productivity particularly commercial productivity uh which in turn will generate revenue  
but it it seems like like uh it's sort of a uh a an [unending] [spiral]  
and it it it uh  
i'm i'm not sure that there's any real genuine truth to the uh the idea that that uh that decreasing taxes particularly the kinds that are being recommended bye bye the bush administration and things like capital gains taxes and so forth is going to uh result in substantial amounts of money you know for consumers to spend  
and uh  
yeah  
it uh it would seem to me that there are other things that the administration could do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think that's been a positive development  
i think what that's done is it's it's it's help keep inflation from um uh  
yeah  
exactly  
it's a sort of a piece of luck  
yeah um  
i don't know  
what kind of things do you think can be done in in uh in the long term  
sure  
uh_huh  
right  
i think that i think that that i agree with you certainly in the second situation  
and i think certain [entitlements] i i'm inclined to agree with you too  
education happens to be one place where i think that we would foolish to um uh  
uh_huh  
oh i see i see what you're saying  
and then they   and then the people [default]   on the loans  
well i would have to agree with you if there are circumstances like that uh around uh  
and i i i can't confess to having any substantial knowledge of that sort of thing  
but but taking what you're saying at face value then i would have to agree with completely  
they're talking about uh federal government aren't they  
yeah  
well i saw a program on uh recently  
and and it said every time they cut you know like fifty five million dollars on a certain thing then they [brag] about how much money they cut  
and then they go and spend that money somewhere else  
and that's why the budget is never balanced  
the gramm rudman act didn't solve the problem  
they just take all the money that they say they cut  
and they spend it somewhere else  
or they you know they pad out their staff or you know spend it in bounced checks at the   [commissary]  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i think they should they should limit the senate to one term one six year term  
uh_huh  
right  
and and don't let them come back  
and and uh keep congress to um two terms of two years a piece  
and then it'll be [overturning]  
and they won't have the same people there all the time  
and then all the special interest groups will have to [renegotiate] all of their   their payoffs and kickbacks  
and that'll keep them busy enough so that they won't have as much influence  
because that's one of the things one of the biggest things is that uh the fact that they're always trying to lean somebody toward one way or another whether it's the oil companies or the automotive companies and like the air bag thing  
the air bag came out what twenty years ago  
and only now they're getting that put in cars  
and the oil companies are really aren't responsible you know  
the [valdez] proved that  
and then the government doesn't jump on them hard enough to make them do anything  
it should have been done immediately  
uh_huh  
right  
no  
they listen to wherever the money is  
right  
yeah  
they're not as efficient  
that's for sure  
i'm sure  
well actually probably any government  
but   the federal one's the big one  
so uh so what do you what do you think in the short term we should be doing to to improve it  
right  
right  
yeah  
uh yeah  
i'm getting pretty kind of disgusted with the uh uh you know the fact that they're counting a reduced deficit as being some big step  
right  
i mean first of all we were we've already hit the largest deficit this proposed budget has the largest deficit ever  
and two a deficit is i mean the deficit is only uh is is as far from a balanced budget  
you reduce the deficit  
you you're still not you're still not you're still [overspending]  
right  
i mean it's just the amount that you're [overspending]  
and this is you know for some reason the way that the reporting is going on now  
it seems like like the goal is to reduce the deficit to some you know still outrageous amount um  
yeah  
i i i think in the long term something is going to have to be done with uh sort of the the uh  
well i mean it seems to be kind of inherent in the political process right that you've got uh people you know trying to trying to corner money for their state or for their constituents so that they can get reelected  
and uh there isn't any sort of overall accountability  
and and uh i don't know  
i i suppose that that that the only kind of solution ultimately that we're going to have is is is exposure and information  
and i don't know that in general the american people are that interested you know to listen to to as much uh uh you know  
i mean you're going to have to know what people are doing and uh you know and how and how how [partisan] and how and how self interested their their motives are   and and take it to task for it because it's not going to get solved you know if people are still trying you know  
like you were saying you say you know hey we just you know we just cut defense  
let me grab some of this money for my state now  
and then we can throw in some highway bill  
or you can throw in some you know some other kind of thing  
and uh it's a pretty vicious uh vicious cycle  
i don't know  
that's  
yeah  
that's being [batted] around  
i uh my my dad was always a [proponent] of that  
he uh   he felt that that would get people involved who were who were interested in being public servants as opposed to personal servants  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i think i think that that's probably right  
because in terms of long term you just got to get people um  
i mean uh at one point at least on a local level um going into politics is you know what you're doing is is really trying to serve the community   right  
i mean you don't expect to make any money out of it  
you know maybe you gain a little bit of local fame  
but but it's uh you put in a lot of work in exchange for that  
and i don't have the feeling that national level politicians are are at all like that  
yeah  
and uh you know i think that that that the problem with having you know junior people coming in all the time is that you end up kind of wasting a lot of time with uh you know with inept politicians   or people who don't know how to deal with it  
but on the other hand maybe that's  
well uh i don't know  
i think the budget is really out of hand right now  
and especially in this election year i think that uh there ought to be at least some conversation about what   we are supposed to do about this  
right  
right  
and uh well as you said mostly they are token cuts  
uh   especially what for instance george bush is offering  
yeah  
ninety seven cents a week  
now what  
that's really not going to do a lot of good it doesn't seem to me to your average   middle income person you know  
another ninety seven cents  
hell you can buy a coke or something for that  
yeah  
that ninety seven cents really isn't going to do it for me either  
uh i i haven't really heard much of what the other people other candidates have said that have made a lot of sense to me either  
especially the democratic candidates don't seem to be coming up with much that really [sparks] my interest as far as yeah maybe that could do something to affect our budget   at this point  
i believe it was dukakis  
but i i can't  
yeah  
i mean that's better than george bush who came out and said no  
i will not  
read my lips or whatever   and then you know ten months later he said well sorry you know i i can't follow through on this  
but it seems to me that uh that the budget is so out of hand  
and especially now that they say okay the cold war is over  
and we're supposed to be getting a peace dividend of you know   of x number of billion trillion dollars a year  
well i'd really like to know where that money is actually going to go  
because in my opinion i don't think i'm ever going to see any of this peace so called peace dividend  
i mean if they could actually put something together and make  
i'm not really in favor of large government social programs either because i feel that they waste   money also  
but with this peace dividend it seems like you could set up some kind of like   public works projects like they had in the thirties or whatever  
right  
exactly  
and in that way we could really focus on building the infra structure of the country  
yeah  
and   and there's no way that we can ever really recover from from the state that we're in right now unless at least i feel unless we focus on the infra structure  
and i surely don't hear anybody saying that right now  
so am i  
uh i u  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
you you just have to wonder what they're thinking in washington  
yeah  
uh well it's it's more than a loaded  
it's a loaded cannon  
i mean   they've got trillions of dollars to spend every year  
and they in my opinion don't do a very responsible job   of spending that money  
oh no   uh_huh  
for for the moment  
and that's what really is getting me about what george bush's stand on the budget is right now   is that he is saying i am going to give you this ludicrous little tax cut so that you'll be happy come november and you'll elect me again  
and then i'm going to go on and just forget everything that i said  
or you know it doesn't seem that it's going to make much of a difference  
no  
no  
not at all  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it kind of seems to me that everyone's offering you know their token little tax cut program you know when it's   when it's just such a bad time for it  
yeah  
the ninety seven cents a week  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean mostly it's it's not actually a a a cut  
it's just a cut in the withhold in the amount withheld you know  
um yeah  
i don't see this changing my lifestyle a whole lot  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i mean you know in retrospect um was it was it [mondale] or dukakis that said you know i'll i'll tell you right now i'm going to raise taxes  
it was dukakis  
yeah  
i have a lot of respect for him  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's it's  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
i uh i i think that would be a great idea you know like the conservation corps you know where  
it it it would help unemployment greatly  
and it  
yeah  
infra structure is in is in  
i mean we we we have hurt ourselves incredibly last fifty years in the   cold war  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i i agree totally  
um i mean this this it just seems so you know so ridiculous that it was allowed to happen  
um i i'm in college right now  
and  
oh really  
where do you go  
right  
i go to georgia tech um  
and in  
what  
i had you know the required political science class   a couple of years ago  
and one of the things we discussed was you know where our where the budget how the budget situation just got so out of hand  
and essentially what happened was  
i think it was like in the um tax year of eighty one um  
ronald reagan basically said you know i'm going to give this much of a tax cut to the tax payers and and created this this ludicrous budget that he knew that that um that the congress would not in their right mind pass  
and congress realizing that they were going to lose a the democratic congress realized that they were going to lose a propaganda war you know bye bye you know bye bye removing the tax cut   further cut the taxes and created you know that that that you know created the huge deficit that year which moved us into the trillion dollar deficit  
and you just  
i mean it's just like they're playing chicken with a loaded gun  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
um what really bothers me is it just seems like if if anyone were to say you know well i'm going to raise taxes and cut the budget and we're we're going to have to do some unpopular things i mean he wouldn't have a chance of getting elected  
i mean it's kind of like rome and the bread and circuses thing you know   where people just want want to have you know whatever will make them feel good right now you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it  
i mean i don't know  
i i don't i don't think george bush will make the american people happy with ninety seven cents a week  
i just don't think it was a well thought out incentive  
you can go ahead and start if you want uh
i can agree with that
and uh i know one thing we we need to do a lot of spending cuts instead a lot of raising taxes because that's what's really hurting everybody's goat uh
and government doesn't produce anything
correct that uh i guess the uh the big thing about that is the fact that they're spending someone else's money
it's not like it's they're out of their own savings account
and that's another [quagmire] that really hurts us
yeah
uh_huh
i think the basic needs of the government in the first place is to protect and what is the other one basic service is to protect and i don't know about providing all the other services
but they do
i mean even i i guess the uh the latest fire they came under was whenever they were providing a uh a [tribute] to um lawrence [welk] contributing five hundred thousand
to [restoration] to his home
i think that was called back because of all the flack they received but but still another one of the big examples of why we're in such dilemma right
i agree
uh_huh
right
and the power given to the i r s is just astronomical
and when you sign your ten hundred forty form you're signing a away you're rights i mean your your rights to uh uh protect yourself
and that shouldn't be that way either uh the power given to those people is just
well beyond it should be
and uh the really what given it was given to them by congress
right
yeah
it's it's it's an enormous bureaucracy though it's going to take probably years to really get that in to order too because everybody will want that pet project
correct
and all the uh unnecessary military [installations] will have to be probably [scrapped] but that's going to be difficult
but really the biggest
yeah
uh probably
well it's the only way it's going to change is for us to have a better budget for running this country is for everybody to get involved and right now i don't see that happening
not at the moment
or not at this short time period
so my you have some pretty good ideas there um
yeah
well i'm um i voted libertarian this last election
i mean in most uh some of the boxes you know
and i'm really am interested in getting most of the incumbents out
yeah
well all parties too are responsible
it's not just one particular one
oh i see i see
well now that we have [aired] our views in such an open way
you two have fun up there
all right
well on the budget i'm not for sure
i wouldn't um start off first of all by putting a limit on the members of congress and then maybe we could get some new people in there to work on it
but other than the budget i think they just have to uh i don't know
i think they have to just have uh maybe uh uh almost a like a constitutional convention and get sharp people from all over the country to come together and try to decide what we're going to cut i think we cut the wrong areas and and just maybe start all over again almost like family
sometimes i have to do this call time out and then uh_huh
yeah
right
see down here in texas they just they don't they we don't have a state income tax
and so they never want to raise taxes
so they just raise the fees they just call them fees and there's a fee for everything
we don't have a state income tax
and uh there's no uh the sales tax isn't on food or anything like that
so we
yeah
so we're not taxed very much
uh but the fees are pretty ridiculous
but i think we just may need to have uh you know get sharp people from all over the country into some sort of a like a constitutional convention
and then to say what's working in one place why wouldn't it work someplace else
i noticed [bridgeport] [connecticut's] declared bankruptcy
yeah
yeah
so
yeah
and it happened i think michigan way back in the late sixties when [soapie] williams was governor they declared bankruptcy the whole state of michigan
so it's
uh_huh
right
that's absolutely
no
by leaving
yeah
yeah
by leaving that particular group in there to make the decisions it's not going to change
so
somebody has to get it to where that it's just a rank and file citizens around the country
and and the and like a like a huge convention you know if they'd send uh so many people from each uh uh they could do them they could do them in the state by state and then each state could pick representatives just like they do at uh uh political conventions but you'd what what it would end up it would be the same old people going
so
yeah
that's
i've always thought that
get in
get in there forever
and then that seniority system
and then the some creep in there
and uh
so uh
yeah
right
i think uh well even at the beginning of the country [alexander] hamilton wanted to put a limit on uh the president was only supposed to serve seven years
and they didn't uh they didn't follow through on that
but i've i've thought about a twelve year cap for congressmen and senators and maybe go back to a seven year term for the president sort of you know
could you hold one second just a second ray hello
that's all right
my wife's a psychologist
and i thought that might be somebody calling in for her
how are things in massachusetts after dukakis then
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
this is
texas is trying
oh that's crazy because texas uh it looks like it's trying to bounce back a little bit
but it's we've still got a ways to go
it's uh i teach in a college and i and i'm in a i'm in pretty good shape
but some of these uh there's just a lot of people out of work and a lot of homeless and the budget is just i don't
we've got a new governor democratic governor female
and uh she's trying to cutback but she has to be so careful and that's the problem is that you if you come in too fast
you can't get reelected
uh_huh
yes
absolutely
yes
yes
but you know give people a little uh [dignity] because i know a lot of these people would like to work
they just don't know how uh to go out and get find a job or they're not skilled or or something
and it it doesn't take a lot of skill to rake leaves or do some of those things like those
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
no
we don't we don't
the uh we uh you mentioned the prison population another thing you can do in the budget we've got a lot of people who don't need to be in prison
i mean there's some of the lesser crimes anymore
probably you don't need to put them away put them in some work program you know a minimum very minimum security
and this they've got a job and you you work uh you know work this long some of them may find that they they like it and want to take it permanently then you could just switch them over in another branch of that and pay them uh a decent wage you you'd whatever you'd pay them would be a lot better than having them in jail or having them out on the street
it's a it's a lot
well uh i agree with you on the international aid
and uh i don't think a lot of people realize too on
we can't live isolated our world is such an international economy now
and uh uh especially with the problems in eastern europe and russia uh i know a lot of people feel that we've given so much aid
and we have so many economic problems
and and i agree that we do
but uh it's also in our country's interest uh to have a balanced world economy uh sometimes it does seem like we're the ones doing all the giving uh and i have to admit sometimes i have wondered if uh we run into problems which is is certainly a possibility
if anyone would come to [lend] us a hand
but uh i do think uh this is a hard area
i mean there's some areas that i feel uh need a lot of work
uh and improvement and education comes to mind
i know they are working on trimming defense uh this has been such a long process that has gotten us to the point that we're in
but unless they start working on it uh it really it it already is is close to uncontrollable
but i'm not sure exactly what practical steps could be uh i wish i had some of the figures in front of me now to know the percentage uh i do think one step one something you touched on in talking about the arts is that as far as percentages go
i think uh money should go that benefits the most uh i i believe in uh education and not necessarily the federal uh it can be done on on different levels too because i think that's our future if we uh if our education system falls behind that of say germany and japan and uh some of the other countries we need to be able to be competitive uh
it's that's an area i would not want cut there are a lot of areas i think that money could be better spent i think sometimes the money they spend on studies to decide on things is way out of proportion and and of course everyone's heard the stories of the several thousand dollar hammer and uh you know somewhere along the line
uh there have been some gross errors
very good sir
well uh living near the nation's capitol unfortunately doesn't do you any good uh all i all i find that i can do is read the newspapers and try to decide what's best for us
what we need to do
and that's sort of a function of the economy
and our relationship with uh other countries and so forth
and right now we're in this big change since russia has [undergone] such a uh big uh [renegotiation] within themselves
and i'm sure that we haven't quite decided where we stand in that yet
yes
i think they're looking for that
they just need guidance
yes
that would be very good for us to help show them what it what it takes to have a a [capitalistic] society and one in which each of them has a a say
and uh you know can express their thoughts
safely
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh i don't recall ever getting a rebate but it does seem as though if if we are able to reduce the our expenditures for defense of course we've got to get get this big debt that the country has under control
and if as we get that under control then i'd like to see the taxes that we pay reduced a certain amount you know so that we're all comfortable
but i do believe that the country's going to have to get itself straightened out debt wise before uh they could do too much that way
but i hate to see them raise the taxes if it's unnecessary
uh_huh
sure
that makes sense
yes
it it it seems as though a lot of the things that we see in the paper and in letters that you receive are showing you loopholes or how not to pay your share
and that really is sort of against what the whole ball [game's] about
isn't it
uh_huh
you no longer work
oh my
well you have more experience at that than i i just retired from working myself on december thirty first so i haven't really had time to look at it from the [retiree] point of view
but it'll be an interesting uh concept
i'm sure
um
yes
i i understand
well it's unfortunate you had that problem
and i do hope you will be able to work out your circumstances
so that you can live comfortably
and feel confident that you are doing your share of the taxes and you know still there are certain things that you need to do in your family and yourself to enjoy life to the [fullest] i was working uh in doing research for the government
so i know what it's like i had worked for the government basically i'm actually i'm a professor a retired professor at penn state
the federal budget
boy i was just writing something down that came to mind as i observed what has happened in our society um we i think have become uh dependent upon our federal government to do things for us that really only we can do for ourselves
and i think more and more people are recognizing that
and in addition to that uh we have elected people who really don't know how to manage the money uh they collect i mean i think it really affects all of us to a degree glen i think we are
i mean i i went through a p h d program that was funded by the office of [navel] research
that's
now investigating stanford and harvard and m i t
i mean we're talking about things that have done some good
but have [institutionalized] corruption
i mean you know i hate to admit that in a way
but it's
true
right
well and we need to spend the money better
i mean we do not need eight hundred military bases around the world
there are lot of things we don't we don't need to be subsidizing tobacco farmers we don't need to be subsidizing water rights for people who are wealthy i mean basically you know it it is really true that this this country is suffering because uh we are it's not that we don't have the resources we are just [squandering] them
right
well that's the way the that's the way the thing works
that's right
i've seen that happen
and it's it's what's even [sadder] and what i think is the the tragic part of it that you see in this case of stanford and m i t
and these other universities that are now being investigated for criminal [violations] is that i think the attitude [develops] that we deserve this because we're the smart guys
and without us society can't function
and that that's no license to steal i mean i i honest to god believe that's what's been going on
and that was sort of [seeped] into the way we operated in this context
and at the time i you know people i mean it was it was acceptable
it's no longer acceptable
right
right
and it it's not up to the federal government necessarily to do a lot of things that people are now thinking it ought to do for example determine what industry should survive
and what shouldn't survive and do a you know variety of other things if we put the money in the right place which is investing in people in the development of human capital in [retraining] programs for these poor people who really kind of went through school and got a high school education and thought they'd be able to at least function in a competitive marketplace or went through college or or went out into the marketplace and
right
well and as the product of the academy i can tell you you know if it were that good
how come
they haven't been able to mass merchandise it and deliver it to everybody
how come everybody is not the [beneficiary] of a harvard m i t or stanford education
if it's that good
then you really
right
but all the people who who are responsible for handling these kids were trained in universities and colleges
okay
and my point is hey wait a minute something is wrong here
these people are claiming this is the best
well if it's the best then it should be translated right on down the line
and the general i mean
how long has harvard been around
okay
so ask yourself some questions
why don't we have a higher quality with one of the world's great universities harvard and stanford both have schools of education
i mean this is a focus it's not like this is an interest of theirs
this is a specific focus two of the best funded institutions in the country premier universities in the world hey wait a minute
how come
they can't produce something like m t v
which kids want
okay
where are you calling from
i'm in california
it sure is
the
right
it's just uh about twelve thirty here
that's right
and i think that anything we can do to improve the federal budget would be a [boon] to everybody no matter where they are in the country
absolutely
well so is ours we have just been told that we're thirteen billion dollars in the red which is more than the entire state budgets of about half a dozen states
and they're talking about uh cutting uh aid to the schools particularly the uh university systems and i our local school district is going to have to fire all it's teacher aides to balance the budget
so i things are tough all over
well i i hope in this case
the rest of you will be [spared]
oh [prop] thirteen
is the one that uh limits the amount that uh real estate taxes can rise every year property taxes can only go up a certain amount per year uh until the house is sold or the person dies
and then it's reevaluated
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's certainly true
we can get hit uh a lot of corporations at least seem to get [blindsided] by taxes that are sometimes even [retroactive] which i would have thought was then unconstitutional but doesn't turn out to be
right
no
it's i don't know where some of these things come from
but they look like they're from out in left field
to me
i don't know what we're going to do long range to solve the budgeting problem
but there certainly has been proposals why are you aware of the grace commission proposals from a few years back
well the w r grace uh was put in charge of a commission to find government waste
uh
this is about eight or ten years ago now
and he came out with a whole book of his group
i mean it has his name
but he was just the administrator of it of places where things like government purchasing could be [rationalized] where uh renting of space could be made much more efficient where a lot of the accounting is just you know incredibly [byzantine] and could be straightened out and where lots of different government activities are [redundant] and where and there are billions of dollars in every years budget that are just totally wasted
because nobody is running the government as if it were a business and uh we couldn't afford to do that sort of thing
we can't we don't have money to throw around personally
uh_huh
it has no incentive to hold back on expenses uh i happened many years ago to work for a state government for a while
and it
absolutely [boggled] my mind the way they budgeted because there was no uh an attempt to figure out what it really should cost to do what we should be doing
it was just take last year's budget add x percentage ask for that
and if you hadn't spent all your money by december run out and buy something
quick
so that you that's right
i can remember uh the entire office got new electric [typewriters] because we hadn't spent all our budget money
in december that was just crazy
that's right
we might come up short next year if we haven't spent everything this year
and so no matter how foolish the expenditure be sure we get rid of that money
absolutely
i think uh probably if you just looked at congressional budgets
the amount they waste on frivolous things uh with congressional office staff is again mind boggling
you read about what it costs the new uh house whip or uh the uh speaker of the house to redecorate and my god those offices were just redecorated a few years ago
they it they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars
they're spending twenty five thousand dollars just this year for a [feasibility] study to determine whether they should build a second gym at the capitol for the [staffs] of the congress
well that's that's not to build
one that's just
well uh that's the kind of thing that makes me mad i want to vote the whole batch of them out of office if that's the way they think they should spend our money and just because it's a few hundred thousand here
who was it said a a billion here a billion there pretty soon we're talking about real money
i think that was old [everett] somebody
yes
it is
and when we're talking about adding that much to a budget where it's just already in the hole just the think about the amount of interest
we'll be paying on that
we'll probably more than double it
huh
that's right
yeah
the only difference is the the uh taxpayers that's right
uh_huh
or our children and grandchildren
i doubt it
but then i doubt if we ever will just keep writing to your congressman and telling him that
yeah
we did that this year too
california just passed that in the last election
i hope it will
i'm well the thing that
yeah
what's funny is that everybody says they want to throw out the [rascals] but nobody wants to throw out his own rascal
otherwise we wouldn't have ninety eight percent of the incumbents reelected
yes
i'm an editor at a think tank
it's a fascinating job i get to see all kinds of interesting ideas and and i do my small bit to help in uh at least express themselves [coherently] even if i don't always agree with what they're expressing well we've got some really really interesting people we got fifty different fellows every year from all around the world
okay
official time
well what do you think of about the budget here you first
oh yeah
i know that we're affected uh directly uh at t i
because of uh the defense budget cuts
but i certainly think that's one of the the things that they're doing already which is
uh which was needed to be done for probably the last few years uh
although with the russian situation
and all the world situation changing the way it is uh it certainly needed i the obvious one that people all talk about that
i still don't understand is uh i'm at work
let me turn my radio off here
uh is uh all the foreign aid
i you know it's over it's a fifty years roughly since world war two
i don't understand why we're
i understand that we support israel and all the other countries
but why do we have to give them cash rather than just selling them military things at a discount or something
i don't get the the idea
of giving people three billion dollars a year
yeah
right
well i think that we should give humanitarian aid
and that's it
you know i think we can loan food or or relief relief aid or whatever
you want to call it
but i not cash money
i think you can send them wheat in other words i think that helps our farmers
but to send them money i don't i don't
see under any circumstances where you send anybody money
right
i'm would imagine that neither party or or the which i guess they're independent parties too why they don't talk about it
i mean they don't bring it up at all
why you would think they'd be real having a real campaign with one party or the other
and they never talk about it
they just keep doing it you know
i i just like to hear them talk about it
you know i like to hear some of the congressmen or senators at least say well let's let's bring this before
let's examine every one of our foreign aids
and look like like they did with the defense with the military bases they they investigated all those [rightfully] wrongly wrongfully whether which ones should be closed
i don't know
but at least they looked at it
i think they should look at foreign aid and say hey which ones do we not need to give you know
right
yeah
i know that is amazing
uh_huh
oh i agree with you there
yeah
i saw one about a month or so ago on twenty twenty
i think it was where one of the congressmen i think it was from connecticut
and i probably will will screw that up
but he wanted to start another drug headquarters in his state and no one was asking for it
but him
and he got the money he got it approved by [tagging] it on some other bill
and it you know the the [newsman] asked him
no one is asking for this why do you you know
and it was just totally a [boondoggle] i mean it was just uh
him wanting to build something that nobody wanted
right
right
but the drug agency wasn't asking for it
he was asking for it you know which didn't make any sense at all
right
it is amazing how the the congressmen and senators just start are totally in another world once
they get elected
right
or
well done
i thought you were going to say what they do
i i've been trying to go over in my own mind when they say we're going to really if you vote for me
i'll control crime and drugs and then they don't do anything
nothing they don't have they had any president or anybody every done anything against crime and drugs you know
right
right
yeah
exactly
right
exactly
right
right
yeah
you can't double up yeah
exactly
exactly
they never go away
the the funniest thing i heard lately about politicians this joke was uh uh do you know how you can tell it when a politician is lying his lips are moving
that that
see that covers is all you know
right
yeah
but it it is the budget thing is just and i don't know why they don't talk about it logically
it's always always uh the the only thing i guess they're doing logically now is the defense which is certainly hurting t i
to a degree
although we've done so well with the go for
we got a lot of good positive press with all the exotic weapon systems and i think we'll get a lot of those you know
but uh uh you need to close so many bases and you need to cut out some missiles
or
i mean some uh programs and all
uh and they're doing that
i think that's that's really good
even though it it hurts a lot bit you know
well then that's probably true
uh_huh
right
right
i go ahead
i was going to say i know you mentioned it
but i don't know why we can't change the laws where the congress and the senators just have eight years or terms because the president has it
and i think that uh is you know you don't want someone in there forever
and the congressmen go in there forever
and that's their whole life then
and their family's life
and every one of their relatives gets on it has got a job you know it's ridiculous
right
there you go there you go
no
that's true
maybe that long term though i think that is a a factor that is to keep the our government uh rotating you know keep them moving uh
and not get the career politicians
yeah
there's uh [historians] i thought that keep saying will
that that never was meant that the politicians would make a career it was just something that you would serve like in the military
and then you'd be done you know
right
right
right
right
well i don't know how much that would do for the budget though
i mean that has helped the economy as a whole you know american
jobs and all
but
yeah
if we bought more american stuff
i guess that's more american taxes
well i guess you know it's like your own home budget you know you can either earn more money or you can uh spend less
and you know just like you and i have to make choices like that
i think the government has to do it too
yeah
the question is which excuse me that's my little girl which one should they do
to to other countries
well that's that's the
that's the
we're supposed to be the rich ones with all the money to give away
well i we're we are still the biggest ones as you know as far as how much money
we've got in the whole country we're still bigger than anybody else
yeah
that's that's an important thing we've got we've got a lot of people who are getting money from the government for this that and the other thing
and uh it would probably help if we could figure out how to get them to put money back into the system instead you know you take someone on welfare and you give them a job and they're paying income taxes all of a sudden you've changed it around and it's going in the other direction
yeah
yes
i am
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's what i don't understand
yeah
you wonder you know when is it going to happen to me
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well i i don't think the problem so much is abuse i think the problem is is just the government is trying to do too much um
i mean who where does it say that the government's supposed to be the one to take care of all of the people that are homeless or hungry or et cetera et cetera
and and where does it say that that if someone is short that they can go to the government and and get a [handout] yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
no
they're not
yeah
yeah
yeah
you know i think you know i've got a fairly decent job here at t i
but uh when i think of you go to the the grocery store and you see someone working as a cashier and you think you know how much a cashier makes
and you go
how do these people get by because i know how hard
it is for me to get by
yeah
we could go run for office
well the thing is um you know who's really in charge of deciding how the money gets spent
and and it's you know it's not the president the president just [suggests] it the ones who actually debate it and decide it is the is the congress and you know what the congress is out for
they're they're going to do whatever it takes to make their voters happy which means bring more jobs and more federal spending to their little area
and uh and that means every congressman is sitting there working for money going to his area
nobody's working on less money going to his area or on anybody else's area
and if you just if you just look at how much congress spends on itself
it's ridiculous
well now the thing is yeah they're cutting defense which is you know there are people out there working for defense contractors who are losing money
but i i don't mind because i think you'll government is not there to give me a job government the defense is there to defend our country
and they do it for whatever you know they spend whatever money they need to to do that
but i don't want them to to break the budget
just so that i can have a job i would rather have the the government stable so that i can go get a good job with someone who's not you know not making defense stuff
if you know what i mean
yeah
uh_huh
well he didn't have much choice really
yeah
but the defense is not the biggest part of the federal budget either the biggest part of the budget are things like medicare and social security
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
you know how fast your t i medical insurance has been going up
right
well just think the federal government's insurance bill has medicare and that's been going through the roof and that's why you know that's that's the biggest increase in federal spending right there
think we need to figure out a way to uh to make medical care cheaper why is this stuff
so expensive why is the cost going up so incredibly fast you know because it's it's coming out of my paycheck it's coming out of your paycheck
and it's coming out of our taxes too
why why is these hospitals making so much money
oh
there's a whole lot of countries
in europe that do that sweden denmark [norway] it's it's free for everybody
everybody in the like i lived in denmark for a couple of years
and medical care there is free you just go and say i want your help
and they'll help you
there's couple of things though
first of all it's not as high a quality as we expect here because it's paid for by the government instead of by us
and second um your taxes are a lot higher
an awful lot higher we're talking fifty percent something like that
they are paying for it
and the and the just the quality of care is not as good either
there has got to be a middle ground
i think [canada's] got a good answer
but i don't know many details about it
it's it's some sort of government program
i've heard a lot of people say good things about it
but i just don't know the details on it
well something's going to have to change
but you look at the congress and you look how many of them get reelected
and they're the one's that have got to make the changes
i mean i don't see anything changing because you've got the same old people in there
yeah
single
yeah
huh
yeah
uh_huh
what's really terrible is they can do this to you
you know
and you don't really have that much of a choice as to whether or not you take it because the government says if you're going to drive a car you've got to have the insurance
they're they're not helping you be able to afford the insurance that they're making you buy how are you tonight
well i've had a a little bit longer to think here because uh they waited about ten calls before they found you bob
but uh i i've been thinking about the fact that the uh gramm rudman act that was originally passed uh to to satisfy some of these [deficiencies] and place a set of [handcuffs] on congress just doesn't work because now we do things outside the gramm rudman with [consent] of congress i guess
and that doesn't seem to help us to much
uh i mean the savings and loan was a great example of that
that's outside the gulf war was outside
so it doesn't it
i guess we just don't have the resolve to really face up and and and follow those instructions if indeed they are politically viable
yeah
right
uh it seems to me that that there's there's a couple of ways that i've listened to uh various congress people and the president and the opposition and other people propose and and one thing that's starting to ring a little true
to me is um rather severe cuts in in the defense programs like closing bases and closing down programs et cetera
simply because i i just don't believe as much as they want me to believe some of the special interests that you talk about that
uh mother russia is that much of a threat to us any longer
i mean we're seeing this thing just [crumble] if if anything now i see the president wants another two and a half billion to loan them money because he's afraid of the outright uh chaos and confusion and [anarchy] because there's no food over there
yeah
yes
yes
yeah
yeah
yeah
exactly
yeah
just don't gore my [ox] right
yes
that's right
oh i guess we'd almost have to
i mean i don't know
it just seems to me
we'd almost have to change the way we do business in government if we didn't have special interest groups
i mean right down to the state and city levels and so on
but i was wondering about you know i i was a little bit encouraged although it didn't seem to work out too
well in this [debacle] in the fall when they last fall when they they they did levy a tax on some of the richer people i mean they increased that [bubble] tax there
i i was a little encouraged by that
because that's another way to cure the deficit is by higher taxes nobody wants to pay higher taxes
but i mean there's going to be a crisis
one of these days
that's going to force us to do it anyway
yeah
yeah
yes
yes
yes
state tax
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well they pass it on to us anyway
i i've never i've never even thought that they that they would absorb that
yeah
that's right
of course it that that that's again that that issue just like you [sited] bill on the bases
but i i don't know
i i it just seems to me that uh i mean i it it does seem to me now that twenty percent
i i think i'm correct in this that twenty percent of the federal budget
is allocated now for debt payments or interest payment of the debt
yeah
and and i know if i had to pay that much in my out of my salary
i mean it it's it it just seems to me
i don't know whether it that's kind of a [colloquium] just use common sense
but it just seems like there has to be some there will be a crisis at some point when the medicare programs can't pay off when the when they can't pay off the the the savings and loans uh situation
when the banks can't be insured any longer when the pensions can't be insured then people are really are going to demand something to be done
but it appears to me that i don't know if there is any short term or long terms steps without a greater crisis that takes place
yeah
but how do you get people to do that though
i mean i i i i don't even find myself you know i see
i i play that game with myself sometimes i know things are a little tough
so i say well i'll just charge this on the credit card
and i'll pay it off in a little bit
and then then every once in a while i get a shock
i get the credit card up to six seven thousand i say this is absolutely insane
and we sort of tighten up or something comes by to pay the damn thing off
but i i i i think that we're not paying anything off
i mean obviously we're not paying anything off
we we've gone from the largest [creditor] to the largest [debtor] nation in the last ten years
and
yeah
that's right
i saw some japanese guy on television today he was talking about the the the trade deficit he said as it's so it's so simple that that it was it was kind of
it was kind of humorous he said as long as you continue to spend more than you continue to uh sell as long as you continue to buy in your country more than you continue to sell you'll have a trade deficit
and until that comes under control uh the lending comes under control
that that's your problem
well i mean i i started to laugh at that
i mean it seems so [simplistic] but i guess it is the truth
we just keep buying their stuff
and we don't have the ability apparently to sell our products overseas
and it is a very complex situation
but uh
i i guess
but as a as an accountant
do you do you find people are worried when you talk to them about what our government might do
or
what they can't seem yes
that that's right
yeah
i i guess i was a little [comforted] by the fact that on this gulf war uh that we have received uh at least sixty percent of the money that we asked for
and i i should imagine
i don't know how that's coming you know i remember some i i just don't i haven't seen a real accounting of that
so i guess i guess uh uh if i was to take a position now and sum up because i don't want to talk too long
is that the short term i guess we have to some how as you say address those issues in the long term we'd either have we'd have to raise taxes and cut back on some of the big the transfer payments
and the military
an and just bite that bullet
okay i'm going to cut it off and uh because i've got to go
nice talking to you bob
bye bye
i agree with that
well also too often too
the uh individual congressman has the uh especially if they are on on some of the committees that put these budgets together have the opportunity to slide things in that normally should not have gone in at all
and the
right and the line item uh veto would be ideal for that
yeah
there's another uh uh another uh way where the budget could uh probably benefit
and this has to do
of course it has to do with federal projects too often
those are uh not uh there's no uh accountability once the uh projects are awarded to make sure that the quality is done
and they end up getting stuck with billions of dollars of [overlay] or if contracts are put out uh no one uh is responsible
or it does not seem to be for following up that if it goes over budget it
well you know it's set up [laissez] [faire] attitude well that's to be expected we just sort of built it in
well that shouldn't happen that way
and i think i think if there was more attention paid to uh what's being uh spent and more accountability that would help enormously too
how who who or how that would come about
i'm not uh
sure
but that's an an area that needs to be uh looked at
well i think there could be a lot of [consolidation] of programs uh looking at
of course there they have been a lot of talk to begin with
and the [military's] a big uh area that uh has taken a lot of shots recently
but i i do not see the point of having four different services uh i do not see why they could not have one military service
that's right
because a lot of the monies are spent uh with [insiding] within those departments
uh basically i'm in i'm in agreement with that
uh i would think that there probably needs to be a monitor not a monitor uh you know
yeah
a presence but not a
no
well witness the the recent gulf war too even with uh troops all over europe
uh it took several months to gear up
what kind of fishing do you enjoy  
so you like fresh water  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
well i was raised on the texas gulf coast   in the summers  
and during the christmas holidays we'd go down to our house on the coast  
and so i thought fish came out of the ocean  
and anything that was fresh water was muddy  
so i didn't learn to fish in a lake until i was well into my twenties  
so i had i had always been a a sea fisher type   which is a lot of fun  
there's so many different ways to catch fish  
you know at night you can go walking in the [shallows] and [gig] flounder and things like that  
which isn't technically fishing  
but it's a lot of fun  
so i i grew up fishing  
what area of lakes do you like  
oh i see  
oh oh oh uh i think i know where uh lake caddo or something like that  
if it's supposed to be one of the best bass fishing places they hold tournaments there and everything  
i would love to do that  
but they have snakes over there  
and i'm not too welcome around  
i don't i really don't want to share a boat with a snake  
i just i i i don't see it  
i just i don't i think that i perhaps would let them have the boat or something  
i'd make some quick arrangements  
and i've told so many stories about the snakes  
you know when they pull in there's a snake instead of a fish   and things like that  
i'm just  
i don't know  
what's the largest fish you ever caught  
oh on a lake  
yeah  
on a like that's not a bad size fish  
i would be impressed  
i've never done that  
i've i've seen it uh  
and and i have no problem going out in a boat uh  
it's just so [dreadfully] expensive  
and there's just so many other ways live down there  
it's not a treat  
it's what you do every day  
you know  
uh one of my favorite things was we were forever catching crab and [steaming] them   you know out on the on the beach   and you know just uh pitching them out on uh on uh what am i trying to say newspaper   and and breaking them up and sitting out there and eating them   and then digging a hole and pitching the whole thing in it you know  
and and that's it  
and uh but the other little [creatures] would take care of what was left  
so   going out on a boat never did appeal to me simply because it you know there was so much else to do  
no  
no  
i live in dallas  
i lived in dallas  
we had a house in port aransas  
it's a little fishing village that is   corpus  
well   uh south padre is on down the bend  
it's like if you drew a line from austin straight down it would be in that region  
small island  
uh  
oh okay  
was it bad  
oh i hate to hear that  
huh_uh  
no  
no  
no  
you went to galveston  
uh i have a favorite hotel that extends out over the water  
the uh what is it the [flagship]  
is it still there  
i like that place  
i didn't realize that had happened   for some reason  
well of course being raised on the water i'd never swim in it  
huh_uh  
swimming is for swimming   pool  
that's why they call them swimming pools  
that's where you swim  
you do not swim in the ocean  
no  
i've seen what comes out of the ocean  
and i have no desire to share   any space with anything like that  
but really but huge sharks   are down there  
i mean incredibly large sharks  
uh some of the young dread [naughty] boys in my family would fish for them all night  
it was incredible the size of them  
the next morning they would have them strung up across the [getties]  
and it you know  
so just strung up  
their tails would still hang on the bottom of the [getties]  
yeah  
just  
i won't have anything to do with  
well it certainly was uh  
maybe you can get  
how many  
have you had very many of these calls  
how wonderful  
maybe i'll just be so lucky  
okay  
i enjoyed talking to you  
bye bye  
well uh normally i like to to go out fishing in a boat and uh rather than like bank fishing and just like to try and catch anything that's swimming because i've had such problems with trying to catch any type of fish that uh i just really enjoy doing the boat type fishing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've never tried like with deep uh sea water fishing   because you get i get sea sick  
well one of these days i'm hoping they'll have some kind of medicine  
so i can go out and go uh deep sea fishing  
now that would be nice  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
uh_huh  
wow   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i bet it is  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh now i haven't done much fishing here in texas uh because i moved from ohio  
uh but uh we did a lot of fishing when we were up there  
but down here i have a brother that likes to go over on the east in east texas and do fishing  
i can't remember what the name of the lake is  
and he was just here this past weekend  
i could have  
i i think he mentioned it again  
but i couldn't remember what it was  
uh i want to call it salt fork or lake fork  
i i can't remember  
but he said it's one of the best bass fishing places  
i you know  
that may be it  
that may be it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and he said that he has never gone anywhere before  
and he's fished all over the united states in which they can catch the biggest bass that you've ever seen  
so i would love to go over there  
they were talking about going over there and and some time in the spring  
and i was thinking it would be great to go over there to go fishing and uh and catch some bass  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
uh gosh  
i think it was only like three and a half pounds  
and for me that's big  
that's why i'm saying i love to go fishing because i've never caught anything really really big  
uh so because it's always been you know in the on a lake and uh  
i know they have bigger fish than that  
but you know three and a half pounds and that was   huge for me  
yeah  
that's a good size fish  
yeah  
yeah  
so uh but  
yeah  
i'd love to go catch like the [marlins] or whatever in the deep sea fishing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
right  
well do you live like along uh houston   down there   well i meant when when you were when you were growing up i mean like galveston  
oh okay  
but you uh  
oh okay  
that's close to uh   south padre  
oh corpus  
okay  
okay  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i've been to port aransas  
but it was when i was a child  
yes  
because i have relatives who live in houston  
so when would go and we would go to port aransas or then on down to corpus or further  
yeah  
like what your talking about  
because i was just wondering we went to galveston this this summer even with all the oil spills and everything  
i mean i was   oh it was horrible  
i well never ever go back  
i don't think uh  
and  
yeah  
and that that's true uh uh you know  
the the water was [murky]  
and i would hate to think about catching fish or anything there  
huh_uh  
no  
i wouldn't want to eat them  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
it sure is  
yeah  
yeah  
it most certainly is so uh so that it it was it was certain things that were enjoyable about it  
but uh i don't i think it's lost a lot of it's appeal since then because of all the oil spills that they have had  
and uh it always smelled the entire time we were there  
it was  
yeah  
we went swimming one time in the whole week that we were there  
and the rest of the time we stayed in the pool because the water was so awful  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
not anymore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
wow  
wow  
yeah  
now i never knew they were that that big huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well it was nice talking to you  
uh yeah  
almost ever day  
yeah  
almost almost ever single day from when they started it  
yeah  
okay  
bye bye  
okay  
mostly freshwater  
i  
yeah  
i i used to fish uh when i was real young down in galveston with my parents  
and i never really got into that too much because you have to get in the boat really to do anything  
and i didn't know anybody who had a boat now  
so i don't fish too much in saltwater  
oh really  
oh neat  
oh really  
what'd you do with them  
you didn't get a big kick out of killing them like some people do  
do they have a limit on sharks  
i mean is that like a a sport fish  
can you actually catch those  
and there's no limit  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
oh really  
right  
uh_huh  
uh no  
i haven't  
i don't know that i could do that  
that looks awful [tiring]  
did you  
didn't like it  
it looks complicated to me  
it's a rhythm or something  
catching tree bass  
right  
did you  
that would have been something  
so do you do you fish mainly for [trophies]  
or do you do you eat what you fish  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
you just like to sit down and watch it right  
really  
right  
right  
that's nice  
well most of my fishing is done at um area lakes around here freshwater lakes  
and um most of it  
i haven't been really in a long time  
last time i went i actually was in galveston trying to saltwater fish  
and it just wasn't working with my freshwater tackle  
that was real fun  
um but um i went fishing at i don't know if you've ever heard of uh lake worth  
it's a fairly new lake in texas  
and uh we went fishing there last memorial day  
and i caught my first bass that was actually big enough to keep  
i was so excited  
and uh that's really about it  
mostly just the lakes around here  
and i fish to take home and cook  
i don't i don't get too much joy out of just sitting and watching  
i get a little bit of relaxation from it  
but mainly i um i want to say i brought something home  
i want to say i did this  
i was out there for a reason  
really  
everybody but you  
it had to be you  
couldn't catch one to save your life huh  
how funny  
just hoping maybe he could pull  
right  
yeah  
right  
oh yeah  
that would be fun  
right  
hand picked  
the weirdest fishing experience i ever had people to this day are still trying to figure out if i really caught what i think i caught  
we were in uh [rockport] which is close to corpus  
and we had been fishing in a canal  
they had all these [canals] up through this one little retirement area  
and uh we'd been fishing in the [canals]  
and all we were catching were catfish  
and we were pretty bored with that  
so we thought well maybe there are some crab in here  
we'll try to catch some crab  
so i got my chicken and all my little net and everything  
and something  
i had a rock to weight it down  
something grabs and just runs with it  
and of course there's no hook  
so it can't be a fish  
i'm sure it's not a fish  
right  
and crab they don't bite like that  
they don't just run with your food  
so i [netted] it  
and it was the ugliest fish i've ever seen in my life  
it had real teeth like human teeth  
and it looked [archaic]  
i i had no idea what it was  
i called my father long distance just to describe the thing  
and it had the rock in it's mouth not the chicken  
but the rock itself   is what it had grabbed  
they say it's a dog fish from everything i've described  
it was brown with these little white [dots]  
and it made a loud almost a [croaking] noise like a [croaker] does  
it it was the strangest thing  
oh i'll never get over that  
to this day i don't want to get in the water   anywhere around salt water because i'm sure one of those fish are there  
uh_huh  
i've never heard of that one  
that's where it gets its name obviously huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
can you eat them  
ooh  
i i don't think i'd want to even if you could if they're that ugly  
but  
that's like this dog fish  
it was it scared me to death  
it was it really it didn't look like it looked like it was something out of the dark ages that just never died  
oh  

so are you a freshwater or  
freshwater  
uh_huh  
most of my fishing has been in the saltwater   uh mostly deep sea fishing for grouper and bottom fish  
and uh i have caught one or two small sharks  
and uh yes  
put them back  
no  
no  
no  
i love shark steak  
but uh the ones i caught were never large enough to really do anything  
is there a limit  
i have no idea  
i know i  
my home is in uh pensacola florida  
so it's they do a lot of shark fishing in that you know in the gulf  
and um there's a certain period of time during the year they have all along the gulf coast from i guess from galveston to [mayport] they have uh shark tournaments  
and you know there's part  
either as part of or separate from the uh bill fishing tournaments they usually have   so i have not done uh much freshwater fishing   oh for you know lake lake fishing for bass and so forth   but uh maybe some what they call brim   and those sorts of things but nothing  
i think i've been trout fishing once  
i've never fly fished  
have you fly fished  
i've tried it   once  
yes  
uh a friend of mine  
no  
i could never get the hang of it  
uh_huh  
i usually ended [snagging] my uh fishing partners or the trees along the bank  
yes  
almost got an [owl] once  
but uh  
oh no  
no  
no  
no  
i used uh when i was uh working in florida i used to do a lot of surf fishing   mostly for relaxation  
you know there are people who fish  
and then there are people who catch  
well i'm a fisher  
that's right  
i've never caught that much  
but uh  
oh and occasionally we'd go out on a you know full day trip you know three or four other people   and do either again bottom fishing or   or for grouper  
or i used to catch you know i've caught a few worthwhile snappers red snappers and gray snappers and so forth  
what about you you a  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
the last time i went uh bass fishing  
i was with my daughter a friend of hers and well a friend of mine and his daughter  
we i was the only one who did not catch   a single fish  
my daughter caught fish  
his daughter caught fish  
he caught fish  
i did not even i did not even  
i have been i was out on a party boat a few years ago  
and we we were grouper fishing  
or you know actually we were uh snapper fishing  
everyone on the boat was catching snapper snappers except guess who  
i i  
that's right  
i would go from one side of the boat to the other  
and uh   the uh the party boat captain could not understand you know  
he even even he started [baiting] my hook   and holding holding the uh the fishing rod  
right  
and it was it was really really really bad  
uh i as i said i am a fisher  
i'm not a catcher  
but uh i enjoy it though  
i don't really get out as much as i uh as i would like too  
and they do of course you know  
here in  
we're only just a few not a few minutes we're you know forty five minutes to an hour away from the eastern shore here in maryland  
and they do a lot of fishing there  
of course what i used to like to do though is go snorkeling for scallops   in some of the [bays] or uh or for oysters  
and uh that i was able to do when i could go in and go down and actually pick them off the bottom  
that right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we used to  
i guess the weirdest thing i've ever caught is uh in some of the [inlets] and the rivers around delaware  
they have a fish that's called an [oyster] cracker  
i don't know if you've ever heard of it  
and it has a huge strong mouth  
and they actually uh use their teeth to open oysters  
uh_huh  
and this is the ugliest   fish i have ever seen  
and i mean and they come in all you know  
i've i've caught them from you know three or four inches long   up to uh  
i guess the largest one i ever caught was probably eight or ten inches long  
but just huge ugly things   just terrible  
no  
no  
they just they just look as though you do not want to do anything with them  
uh_huh  
well the first time i went surf fishing was in  
and i threw my line out  
and the first thing i caught was a sand shark which was probably a foot   and a half or uh two feet long  
and scared me to death  
i had never seen anything  
and then i was fished for another half hour or forty five minutes caught a few white fish and so forth  
and then i felt something relatively heavy  
and i thought oh really here i'm really going to get one  
and i  
so do you fish  
uh from a boat or from shore  
oh that's nice  
uh mostly catfish  
or  
yeah  
a real light line real light rig  
well that sounds like fun  
fish in colorado different than that  
mostly trout in the mountains  
yeah  
yeah  
mountain streams and rivers  
uh yeah  
very yeah very much there you know  
um by and large no  
but but they're big fun  
what  
i i i'm a fly fisherman  
yeah  
i i cast a ways  
i'm not highly proficient  
but it's fun  
well let me explain fly fly fishing to you then  
you're not casting a weight on the end of the line  
you're casting the weight of the line  
yeah  
well   the fly on the end weighs nothing  
it weighs less than the line  
so what you do is you strip off oh four five six little rolls [coils] of line into your hand  
and you whip the line  
as you whip it over your head   or side to side you slowly feed out more and more  
well no  
no  
you fish upstream  
right  
and then you let it carry it downstream  
and then you reel it in  
and you do it again  
yeah  
exactly  
yeah  
exactly  
jump at it  
uh from what i'm seeing and hearing and all the the big pattern that's really looking forward for spring is the grub pattern  
no  
no  
it it looks like a grub  
yeah  
okay  
whenever you yeah  
a lure a fly  
whenever you have a something that looks like something else  
and it's a fly you call it a pattern  
all right uh you know there's [bumble] [bee] patterns   there's excuse me uh there's [bumble] patterns there's mosquito patterns there's wasp patterns there's grub patterns  
uh  
uh  
you can buy them  
uh i've got some  
and   they seemed to have been hitting real heavy on it in fall  
yeah  
yeah  
you know how that changes the phase of the moon  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
i i   you see i'm from west texas  
yeah  
lubbock  
oh another west texan  
yeah  
yeah  
it   it it's kind of nice way to get away from everything for the day  
yeah  
well there you fish mornings and evenings   and nights  
yeah  
it at times gets incredibly hot here  
june  
oh  
yeah  
fishing is not just just dragging fish out of the water  
it's it's a total experience you know getting out in nature and   hearing the [crickets] and listening to the birds and   seeing the squirrels and   camping out and eating out   of doors  
and  
uh i probably ought to  
i just freeze  
yeah  
yeah  
well you know   ankle deep or standing on the bank and slipping it out there  
you know i always intend to just stand on the bank and just kind of slip it   out there  
and you know how it is  
the water's kind of  
and then you're in to it just a little bit  
and then you [splash] in  
and   the next thing you know your knees are wet  
uh got a stepdaughter  
she's real sweet  
and uh at times she enjoys it at times not  
a fuzzy little dog  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you guys sure want to be out of range  
it takes time  
yeah  
last year we had a oh just a wonderful trip up to [travers] lake  
oh it was cold and rain the whole time  
and we still had a good time out   of the deal  
uh and colorado is a beautiful place to live  
well and you've got to have  
you've got to work for a living  
what division you all in  
what division are you all in  
oh  
well the only thing up here   is division one  
oh yeah  
okay  
yeah  
oh fishing's   fishing is fun up here  
it's not  
it seems like the success ratio the success rate here is not as good as on some of the better lakes there  
but it is fun  
you know   the the experience is is better up here i think  
you know it seems more relaxing there's more to look at  
and and there's something about listening to water run that's relaxing to the soul   you know if you're if you're just sitting on a nice hot lake  
yeah  
it it is interesting to watch that water rise all of a sudden  
uh_huh  
yeah  

it gets [foamy] almost  
and you know it's just pure and [pristine]   and the [froth]  
and  
oh yeah  
my dad has a lake cabin  
and so we go there for the small lake uh just outside of the dallas fort worth area  
it takes us about three hours to get there  
and we go and we fish  
and we catch a bunch of junk nothing nothing to talk about for the most part  
but it's fun  
from the dock from shore  
oh mostly we catch carp  
if we're doing good we catch a catfish or two once in a while  
and you know we go ahead and eat those  
but we've never caught enough to really have what you'd call a fish fry  
what we normally do is just uh go ahead and clean it up and then uh you know put it in a bag and freeze it  
and and somebody takes it home and eats it then when there's just a couple people instead of a whole crowd  
usually there's a pretty good crowd there  
so we don't ever catch enough to eat  
carp is usually pretty much fun  
because i've caught up to about an eight pound carp on a little you know a little pole with twenty pound test line  
and that that's a pretty good fight  
so that's a lot of fun  
yeah  
they fight hard  
yeah  
yeah  
and in the rivers and stuff  
are they good to eat  
oh you mean size wise they're not very big  
yeah  
well i've been  
is that mostly uh fly fishing when you're doing that  
or  
are you fly fishing  
or are you using a [bobber]  
yeah  
i've never even tried that  
my  
if i don't have a reel with a button on it i tend to get so much backlash it's not worth the trouble  
uh_huh  
with the little thing on the end  
yeah  
i thought it had a weight  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
um so you're fishing downstream so it will carry some  
oh you fish upstream  
uh_huh  
you hope that they think it's a bug and   and eat it  
yeah  
that's a fish  
oh it's a it's a lure  
i see  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
um  
did someone just come up with this design  
and and you're going to make one for yourself  
or are you going to buy it  
uh_huh  
oh it's just that that just happens to be what the fish like this year  
huh  
um  
i guess so  
we tend to use just bait   and a few lures  
but bait tends to work the best just some blood bait  
oh are you  
where are you from  
oh i'm from midland  
i went to college at tech  
so you've been out to buffalo gap fishing  
yeah  
i've been up there  
i didn't catch anything  
but i've been up there  
yeah  
it's fun  
it's lazy  
take a picnic lunch  
i used to do that with my dad  
every once in a while we'd go out on a saturday and just spend the day   before it got too hot  
yeah  
yeah  
we do most of our fishing at night  
just from the heat of it all  
that's one advantage you've certainly got on us  
it does  
i've only been up there once  
in the summer well  
no  
i've been up there twice in the summer  
but both times it was really pleasant  
in fact it snowed on us in in gosh when was that  
we were in mesa [verde] park  
and it was like the end of it was just before july fourth  
and it was twenty eight twenty nine degrees  
we were out in this silly tent with regular little sleeping bags not knowing any better  
and here it went and it froze  
and it snowed on us  
we did not know what to do about it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do  
yeah  
do you have to  
do you wear [waders] when you fish  
oh  
goodness it must be a little bit cold  
that's cold water around there  
um do you have any  
oh i see  
yeah  
and you get you get a little more carried away with it  
and you move a little closer  
yeah  
do you have any kids that you take fishing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have a three and a half year old and a one and a half year old  
and the little one of course is could care less  
the uh three and a half year old has just gotten to the point  
we got him a little pole last year  
and just put uh his big thing last year was throwing it in the water and [reeling] it up  
that was what he considered fishing  
this year he's gotten to where he can  
we we were at a friend's uh stock pond we were out at their farm  
and and they had been fishing and let him use the pole while we we all walked off a healthy hundred yards or so and let him fish  
and he started trying to cast it  
so he he was kind of getting there  
but he's   he's at a dangerous point right now  
he understands the mechanics of pushing the button and throw but not necessarily the direction it's going to go in  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's good  
oh yeah  
my husband would like to live there  
but i don't know all of our family is here  
so  
well yeah  
but t i is up there  
so that part of it would probably work out  
i'm sorry what  
we're both uh  
i was uh military  
but he's division three  
it goes back and forth  
division well  
maybe division one right now  
he's in computers  
so  
and he's in school   and everything else  
i have some friends who work up there  
kathy and kevin guy  
yeah  
and they like to fish  
they've been [inviting] us to come up there in the summer  
her dad has a cabin  
and they go fishing up there  
so that would be neat to   try it some time  
yeah  
long as you have a good time that's the main point  
so  
uh_huh  
definitely more to look at  
yeah  
yeah  
the only thing you've got to watch is when that creek comes up  
we camped next to one one time when we were there a couple of summers ago  
and we figured we were up a long way off  
and then it rained that night  
and we thought well wonder how far off we are  
and we got up the next day  
and that creek that had been fifty or sixty feet from our site of our tent was now about three feet away  
and it's like oh well maybe we ought to move just a touch  
so that was kind of funny  
yeah  
i just love the way it looks  
i could almost just watch the  
we in fact we have gotten out on on trips before and just stopped and watched it because there was so much  
and if you were there i mean  
it was  
one time we were there  
and i guess it was late may  
so it was really your spring almost   you know at even though it was it was really summer down here  
and and the i guess the creek the mountains were really starting to melt  
and the creek was just wild just running  
and and all the white water and noise and the  
it was just beautiful  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i like to  
i don't have a boat  
but i like to fish  
and there's a lot of lakes around here  
uh are there many lakes up there  
uh_huh  
they have mostly small mouth in them  
or  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh it's it's uh  
i fish for bass  
but i hardly ever catch one  
but uh uh they have a tail race over in lake lavon  
and uh you know they wash when they open up the dam and let out water they wash down the fish  
and uh you catch that white bass and crappie out of there  
every once in a while there'll be striped bass  
uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what do you what do you catch perch on  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's  
sometimes i use corn  
but uh uh some fish steal it off the hook sometimes  
yeah  
uh the other day i was fishing with bread uh  
there's a college across the street  
and they  
it's it's full of carp and uh i caught a carp on a about what size is that uh i think it was a number two [treble] hook  
and it's huge  
its its mouth was full of hooks  
so he was in a bad way  
but uh it's  
he was fast  
he  
yeah  
well it's uh it was sixteen inches long  
yeah  
i think it was about a pound and a half you know  
but all they're good for is the fight  
boy they they really don't want to come out of the water  
they   they zip through the water you know  
you're how your line goes you know  
and i thought you know that uh i wasn't going to be able to get it in because uh the one i hooked just about ten minutes before when i tried to raise it out of the water it fell off  
so it wasn't hooked very well  
but you know i got it that far  
i figured that uh  
yeah  
that's what i said  
that's what i told the guy  
the guy was standing there  
and he laughed when it fell off  
and i said that's a quick release right there  
uh catfish yeah  
but uh i haven't eaten anything else you know  
uh there's some uh  
my dad has a farm  
and there's  
he has two ponds up there  
and my uncle has a a pond upstream  
and there's a lot of crappie in there now  
but uh i think he's the only one that's that's caught enough crappie or a big enough crappie to eat  
but the catfish there's you know there's hundreds of them from like two to six pounds and that  
yeah  
yeah  
and if you know  
when you when you have to look in their eyes and you know hit them in the head or whatever that's what you do with a catfish   you know because you have to [sever] their [spinal] cord  
yeah  
yeah  
uh not yet  
my brother went off the coast of maine uh  
when the  
i don't know  
what they  
mackerel  
that school up there  
it's  
he he said that it was just like that  
they were throwing like uh uh hell [benders] or uh uh some other kind of [treble] hook lure  
and and uh each time they bring them in they'd have at least one  
sometimes they've had two on you know one on every hook  
uh_huh  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
down here it's like two hundred dollars a day  
a group party  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i i don't know if it's been five minutes yet or not  
yeah  
it's nice talking to you  
good luck  
bye bye  
so you like to fish huh  
yeah  
actually there are quite a bit of lakes around me  
we uh we have the those little the the the great lakes you know  

uh lake ontario is right near here  
plus we're in what's called the finger lake region of new york  
where there're lots of small lakes everywhere  
and these are uh real good uh for like you know bass fishing and so forth  
no  
we have a actually quite a lot of variety  
there's uh there's  
we have large mouth small mouth uh sort of [musky] [pike] stuff like that  
you know all sorts of fun stuff like that  
uh we have a pretty large bass masters tournament actually takes place right on lake ontario every year  
so it's it's that's a lot of fun  
how about you  
do you like what do you like to go for  
yeah  
um  
we have uh some friends who live on the lake  
and it the lake it just seems is is completely filled with bass to the point where you know normally you go go fishing for bass you get a lot of sunfish or or cat or whatever and some other strange stuff  
but in this particular lake we went out with some friends once  
and we just every time you tossed the line in you pull up a five six seven inch minimum bass  
and usually you pull up you know thirteen to fourteen inch bass  
yeah  
it's a real it's a real enjoyable experience to go fishing there because we just we pull up you know bass after bass  
and   during perch season as well you pull up a lot of uh  
probably during during perch season the perch will run in very large schools  
so what they'll do is  
you'll you'll be sort of boating around  
these people own a little row boat  
and they'll be boating around  
and they'll hit a they'll hit a school of [perches] in the middle  
and when they do you can just drop the lines in and just pull them in one at  
they they just drop it in  
they can't pull it in fast enough  
uh i they actually they  
according to them you can catch when the perch are running you can catch them on just about anything  
they tend to use i guess worms or some kind of lures sometimes  
but you know i've  
she told me that they will sometimes use corn or anything you know  
they'll  
corn or [salami] or bread or anything  
they'll they'll they'll hit because they're just sort of surrounded these large schools  
yeah  
it's a big problem  
yeah  
um  
wow  
a big one  
wow that's that's that's a nice size carp  
uh_huh  
that that that counts  
do you do you do you actually like the taste of  
do you like eat the fish that you catch  
or are you more of a sport fisherman  
right  
so you can just oh  
because i don't actually like fish  
it's sort of  
so when i fish it's more for sport than anything else  
right  
and and and and and be careful you don't get stung  
yeah  
i know it  
have you ever tried uh deep sea fishing  
yeah  
yeah  
we i was out in florida with a friend a while ago  
and we would go and just uh drop two you know a a two or three rig two or three hooked rig as well down off a boat  
we just dropped it down there  
and the captain had you know some kind of [sonar] in the boat  
so he'd maneuver us into a school of fish  
and you just drop it in and and it just  
you you get one or two at a shot you know  
and   it's a good deal too  
it was it was a like twenty dollars for six hours of fishing on some big [charter] boat  
you know and and and they'll clean your fish on a tip basis for you if you want  
well this is  
yeah  
this this this was for a you know large  
there were   maybe thirty of us on the boat  
we we weren't all related just you know thirty people off the shop in the boat there  
if you want to go on a boat alone it's like two hundred dollars a day  
but this is great because it was i think it was nineteen dollars for five hours and twenty dollars for six hours or something  
you know  
so you'd get to go out there for for for six hours and get a nice [suntan] and bring along some lunch and and fish all day  
it's really nice  
it's real enjoyable  
i think we're probably close though  
nice talking to you too  
good luck with fishing this season  
bye bye  
okay  
what kind of fishing do you do  
uh_huh  
that's one of the few things i've ever fished for is rainbow trout  
what what kind of bait do you use to catch them  
oh really  
fish eggs  
oh i didn't know that  
huh  
uh_huh  
oh i didn't know that  
that's a great way  
i think that would probably be a good way to catch catfish  
also   oh look catfish uh  
personally i like to catch large mouth bass   and catfish because they fight the best  
but a a catfish will really just tear into anything like that like liver   or uh cheese or anything that smells terrible  
uh no  
actually i always used to go to my [grandparents'] in oklahoma  
and they have the uh lake texoma right next to them  
so the  
we used to catch some uh sand bass off lake there's a roosevelt bridge  
and what we'd do is let the line all the way to the bottom and crank up you know   turns on the   reel about six to twelve times  
and the fish would be sitting at different levels  
so yeah  
you just leave it at that level  
and in no time something would hit it  
and you could pull them up two and three times in a row  
but you had to find out what level how many [cranks] they were off the bottom  
and if you left it on the bottom there was a good chance that you'd catch catfish  
and of course depending on how big your bait was uh you know would be depending on what you caught  
yeah  
that was a lot of fun  
my grandfather used to do that  
and we used to have a light at the top of the water  
he'd really spoiled me in that respect  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well if you  
do you have any friends with ponds  
i uh  
well if you can  
well or even a lake  
if uh  
seems like every time somebody's on the bank all they want to do is throw it out just as far as they can   and uh bring it in to you  
but it's the opposite when you're fishing from a boat  
you you want to make it land right on the shore and then drag like a plastic worm   and just have it come into the water like a a regular animal or or fish   uh well you know something coming off from the bank like they usually do  
so you don't have to really get uh fish from a boat you know because they're actually right there at the shore  
but i didn't used to be sold on plastic worms  
but uh if  
i am now  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it just uh just a slow reel  
and then let it sit on the bottom  
but the key is to always have your line tight  
and that way you can feel when they're hitting it  
and believe me you'll know the difference  
oh crappie actually  
yeah  
i've been fishing in the the ocean  
we're about three hours from the ocean  
and i also like spanish mackerel  
and you catch blues  
and uh that's a different kind of fishing off the pier too  
have you ever fished off the pier  
uh_huh  
oh the best thing for crappie is those little [spinner] baits and and [jigs]  
uh they have like yellow uh [fuzz] on a hook you know that kind of comes out  
yeah  
yeah  
get  
but they're a little heavier  
and they're bigger  
get the yellow ones  
those are the ticket  
and let them drop to the bottom and maybe do a a kind of a slow reel  
you don't even have to have a good rod or anything just just even a regular line  
and you throw it out  
and uh the the other thing that's real good is small uh  
it's a real small [rapalla]  
it's about an inch and a half long  
and they're pure all silver something real shiny about that long  
they'll go after that in a heartbeat also just anything that really shines or [spins]  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's it  
oh really  
that's neat  
well mostly uh a a little fresh water fish  
but mostly lake fishing like rainbow trout and stuff because i used to live in utah  
but uh down here i haven't fished much in texas  
oh they're really not  
i think they're good to eat  
oh just usually worms night crawlers  
sometimes fish eggs  
sometimes  
yeah  
just little just little fish eggs  
and uh there's this one kind of cheese that you can put on the end of a hook  
and it will stay relatively well  
yeah  
and and they really like that  
now i have never caught catfish  
uh_huh  
because they fight the best  
oh is that right  
now in amarillo did you fish any of this  
um   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh how about that  
oh  
oh i think that is really interesting  
uh_huh  
i think they're  
see and i wish i could go fishing here because i don't really know much about the fishing here  
i guess it would  
if you did it like you were just uh saying that's pretty much like rainbow trout  
you bait the hook  
you throw it in  
you [troll] it   a little bit  
and then you wait  
and they [troll] it a little bit  
no  
i don't  
yeah  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
huh  
you are now  
i've never used those  
that's really interesting  
yeah  
yeah  
uh what kind of fish do you like the best to eat  
oh do you  
um   yes  
i've done fishing like that  
but but uh tell me what uh where you'd catch crappie  
my my neighbor has gone before   and and done that  
but  
oh oh i know  
uh they're sort of like well i want to say flies  
but not exactly like  
yeah  
the yellow  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
my mom she just loves to fish  
and she has a lot of those those little uh  
they almost look neon  
you know they're just real colorful   things on onto her end  
yeah  
and she she's really a good fisher woman  
yeah  
well you sound like you're a good fisher woman too  
not be a very good [conversationalist] on fishing  
i don't do a lot of it  
well good  
maybe i can learn something  
do you  
well it is fun what little i do  
of course i don't you know  
i think when they refer to different kinds of fishing  
i told my husband last night when i had called and they had told me that this was a topic i said well i can tell them how to fish with a [minnow] or how to fish with a worm  
he said i don't think that's the different kinds of fishing they're talking about  
that's about the only kind i know how to do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it sounds like you do quite a bit of it  
uh_huh  
do you have a boat  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think the lakes are probably different in michigan than they are in texas  
the ones around here are so big that you can fish off the dock  
but unless you have a boat you can't really get into the where they call the good fishing holes you know  
is it  
uh_huh  
my in laws live on a lake uh a little bit east of dallas kind of in the [piney] woods  
and the lake is beautiful  
and i like to go out and stand at the end of the dock and fish  
but actually catching fish to eat per se you don't really do much of that right there  
i catch a lot of little old uh i think they call them perch  
and then the the uh turtles try to eat up all my bait  
so it's it's so close to the dock that i think all i do is feed them a little bit  
but it's kind of fun  
um   i would be afraid of that  
do they ever get on your hook  
uh_huh  
are they [poisonous] snakes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think i'd be a little bit afraid of those  
uh_huh  
we uh saw a large snake right off the dock there at my in [laws'] place last year  
it was probably four inches in [diameter] or something like that you know  
great big snake  
and it of course it scared the women to death you know  
but the men come out and said oh well that's only a a king snake it won't really hurt you you know  
but it looked so bad  
and it was so big that it might not would have hurt us  
but we sure felt like it was hurting us just being there you know  
but they're scary looking  
yes uh  
i think that uh probably around here people fish for bass and crappie and catfish more than anything else  
uh_huh  
now they have a lot of bass tournaments  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
well that's kind of  
we've never entered a tournament or anything  
we're not that big into fishing  
but i see a lot of people  
you know early in the morning there'll be all the boats going out  
and they'll say well there's a big bass tournament this weekend  
and all those people are here for the tournament you know  
so i think there's a lot of people that have you know really i guess that you'd call it really sport fishing  
they're really into it to try to win  
my  
but it is it's very a very relaxing sport to be able to just be out on the water and looking around  
the peace and [calmness] is really relaxing  
uh_huh  
i've never tried taking a book with me  
i'll have to try that one of these days  
well i do love to fish  
well i don't know how much you can learn  
i'm not so sure i'm good at it  
but i do enjoy doing it  
yeah  
well i hope it is  
there's not a whole lot of different kinds  
i don't do a lot of deep sea fishing  
i because i get seasick  
but   we have a lot of lakes here in this area  
and i do a lot of fishing for uh bass  
we have a lot of uh uh couple of lakes in our area that are just filled with good sized bass  
and then when i get tired of them [outwitting] me i fish for catfish  
and we use worms and shiners which is pretty much like minnows   a little bit bigger than minnows  
and then i also use [spinner] baits and plastic worms  
it all depends on what i'm fishing for and the time of day  
i do  
uh there's a lake like maybe two or three miles from here  
and   it's very convenient on afternoons when i want to just get away and sit and think  
fishing's a good way to do that  
and i have a lot of friends who like to go fishing  
no  
i don't  
i have a friend who has a little [inflatable] raft  
and we   use that sometimes  
i wish i had a boat  
but i don't  
uh_huh  
right  
that's the same way here isn't it  
you have to get back in the sticks in the  
right  
oh  
we don't have   we don't have a big problem with turtles  
but we do have a awful lot of snakes in our lakes  
and i   well i can't think of a time that i've been fishing that i haven't run into one or two of them  
no  
we uh  
occasionally i'll catch an eel   on a on a hook but never the snakes  
they just kind of  
uh we have a lot of cotton mouth  
so yes  
they are definitely  
and they live in little shallow little [coves] that i like to fish in  
so i seem them swimming by every once in a while  
yeah  
they can they're they're certainly ugly  
yeah  
definitely  
do you have bass  
right  
well that's pretty much the same way here  
i  
well we have those  
i don't  
i inevitably if i enter one of those i never catch a thing  
i just go out there and sit and watch other people do it  
oh yes  
yeah  
oh definitely  
certainly here they are  
yeah  
it's a good thing to take a nice book and sit back and read and fish  
that's what i do a lot  
i've uh  
are you there  
all right  
okay um  
i'm in an area where um we can uh enjoy it year round  
so i've actually been uh uh been out within the past couple of weeks  
i'm mainly a freshwater fisherman  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did you   did you ever do the james river  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've i've been in that area  
and the trout fishing is supposed to be [legendary]  
uh_huh  
for [brookies]  
yeah  
what do you like [brookies] or uh [rainbows]  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do you fly fish or are those streams too small  
yeah  
i used to do that a little when i lived up in new york  
but   right now it's uh uh bass and striped bass is the only thing that i go for down in in uh texas  
uh yeah  
they're they've uh  
the striped bass have [accommodated] themselves to the big fresh water lakes  
and they're pretty exciting when they're when they're running  
it's a salt water fish in fresh water uh environment  
it's all put and take  
uh_huh  
what's the season  
april to october or something like that  
uh_huh  
uh  
what's a license cost  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's about the same as texas  
yeah  
well i have all sons so i think i'm probably going to be fishing for a long time  
i caught the disease from my father  
and i'm passing it on to my children  
it's really  
they love it  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh uh i don't i don't know about the lakes in central pennsylvania  
are there many  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes sir  
i'm right here  
well actually i've done both kinds  
uh i'm originally from the state of virginia   and uh lived near near virginia beach where we could uh surf cast and uh   catch a lot of things in the ocean there  
i don't believe i have fished the james river  
there's a possibility but that was so long ago  
i moved here to to state college uh in nineteen fifty five  
and that has pretty well limited my fishing to fresh water  
and we have a lot of uh beautiful fresh water streams that come through this area  
i'm in an area called center county which is in the very center of the state of pennsylvania  
the trout fishing is really uh beautiful  
as i say the the streams are oh eight ten fifteen feet wide and so forth  
and uh you you stand on the edge and you you cast out and you you work uh from your feet most of the time  
and then there are there are a few lakes of course close  
by   well tell you the truth i'm i'm not uh not picky  
i  
wherever the area  
whatever the fish is the specialist in that area i uh i enjoy fishing for it  
and i try to  
i haven't fished in several years   i'll have to admit but when i do fish i do contact uh some of the local specialists   so that i can then find out the uh the type of lures that they use and where they fish and any unique uh techniques that would help you  
uh no  
we we fly fish  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's a pretty big fish  
uh_huh  
well our our streams here are [replanted] with fish about every year   so that well they they they uh they have a pretty good idea of of uh what the number of fish are in these various locations  
and   and they have have certain areas that they plant you know a hundred here and a hundred there  
and this is of course x number of weeks or months before fishing season opens  
so  
that sounds about right  
uh_huh  
pretty close  
you know  
well as i say it's been several years  
but the licenses weren't that expensive  
i  
seems to stick in my mind five to seven dollars   is about all from what i remember it  
uh_huh  
and i have oh probably a half a dozen different kinds of uh fishing poles and and fly rods and so forth  
and and i had been so busy in my work in these last few years that i haven't had time to fish  
but i'm going to be retiring at the end of december  
and i i hope uh the next fishing season that i can sort of get back in and uh enjoy that  
that that was a really enjoyable uh thing for me to do  
huh i just have one son and he he lives out of the state now rather in the eastern corner of it  
so i don't think he has time to fish either  
oh is that right  
oh my goodness  
well i i the disease i caught was simply because uh i i was in the [norfolk] [portsmouth] area  
and   people there  
there's there's so much water around   that you you're either boating or you're fishing  
and uh i fairly enjoyed at that time  
i have a small aluminum boat here   that uh  
when i go on one of the large lakes that we have here that i enjoy fishing for for trout from that  
well as i say i'm in center county  
there's um there're two different size lakes about well five six miles from state college  
now these aren't huge lakes from your point of view  
but they are probably fifteen twenty acres maybe   which which here is a lot of water  
okay  
yes  
i love to fish  
well it's mostly from the rivers and lakes  
and yes  
and from the banks  
i don't like to go out on boats  
well it uh  
down here we usually catch catfish and bass stripped bass you know where i fish   and trout up at uh lake shasta when i go up there  
but i like it all except uh really i don't i don't really care that much for the trout  
i think i had rather have a catfish than i would a trout  
uh_huh  
see well uh like in uh iowa and nebraska those little [bullheads] they look just like catfish huh  
you know that's what i mean cause i am from iowa  
and uh you know we use to catch those little [bullheads]  
and that's  
they look just like baby catfish  
you know uh did you get to go fishing very often  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh you like to eat them after you catch them  
because there's are a lot of people that like to go fishing  
but they don't like to eat them   you know  
yeah  
i know  
if i go to a restaurant and order fish it's usually either salmon or uh red snapper   you know  
we uh skin them  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
just cut their heads off and skin them  
and then i just uh flour them salt and pepper them and cook them  
i don't put that corn meal on them  
you know uh that's the way my mother taught me to fry them  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well you know i don't think i've ever tried cooking those uh catfish quite that big  
uh most of them are just the small you know pan frying ones  
so uh  
um  
wouldn't that be something  
it's a thrill when you get a big fish though isn't it   you know  
uh_huh  
so when you were  
when you did go fishing where did you go  
you moved there from where  
nebraska  
so it was just like the rivers and uh the   lakes i suppose huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well are you a fisher person are you  
great  
what kind of fishing do you do  
in california  
oh  
well what kind of fish do they have in your neck of the woods  
uh_huh  
oh  
well i i don't blame you  
i grew up in nebraska and uh grew up fish cat fishing in the little blue river  
and then uh we moved to uh south dakota   and uh did a lot of [walleye] fishing on the missouri river  
and uh now that we are down here i think a lot of people do some uh bass fishing and strip bass fishing  
but uh i still uh i am sort of a catfish man at heart  
yep  
yeah  
they do  
oh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i like to fish  
the only problem is i just moved to texas  
so it's been a little over a year now  
but uh   i i am not quite sure what residency is for a fishing license here  
and i so really i haven't gone fishing for about two years now  
and it's driving me crazy  
but uh one of these days i will go over to uh lake lewisville or uh what is it uh ray hubbard lake ray hubbard and get some fishing in and get it out of my system for a while  
well yeah  
sure  
well  
yeah  
most of the time uh if we catch something we'll take it home and eat it  
uh and you're right  
i mean i like to fish for trout  
and they are really uh uh good [fighters]  
but uh if i went to a restaurant that probably wouldn't be the first thing i would order if i had a choice of fish on the menu  
yeah  
well uh so do you just uh uh skin your catfish  
or do you [fillet] them out  
how do you how do you  
do you  
okay  
yeah  
no  
well that's how we do it too  
uh although we uh use to set some uh trout lines out  
and we've caught you know fourteen fifteen pound catfish  
and sometimes those are good to uh do on a barbecue grill   and just leave the skin on and uh do it with uh butter on uh on on tin foil  
and then the skin just basically [scrapes] right off  
and uh  
and it really tastes pretty good  
there uh  
yeah  
well i am hoping one of these days i'll have the opportunity to catch a big catfish like that on uh a rod and reel  
but uh   so far it's just been on uh on the trout lines  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh well up in uh south dakota on the in the missouri river there we've uh tied into a few northern [pike]  
and uh they really uh  
in in  
when the water is cold they are very slow moving fish  
but in the summer time they'll uh give you a run for your money  
uh_huh  
yeah  
in   in nebraska  
uh yeah  
most of the time uh we just fished uh in the river although there were a lot of sand pits and things like that that we could fish in  
and a lot of them ended up being close to the river  
so if the river every uh flooded you know then obviously they would dump some catfish and bass and stuff into the into the ponds and the sand pits  
and so we would do a lot of fishing there too  
but uh south dakota didn't really have much for  
okay
so are you a fisherman
yeah
well i'm just about in the same situation
here a few years ago i got really got into it hot and heavy
and um about like you say i guess the last couple of years i've you know kind of gotten out of the it
i've got kids now that are old enough to play summer baseball
and uh ball league basketball and that kind of stuff
and uh man i just don't have the time to go like i want to
oh really
yeah
i tell you
it really is hard to to get time to go fishing
unless you just really really work at it almost
like a second job
yeah
i'm i like to go after them big old black bass
oh i got a few little old ponds up around here you know there's several around here
i do a lot of oh just small farm fishing
i mean small farm tank fishing and rock pit fishing
but i've been to uh-oh
the last i guess the last big lake
i went to was lake fork um um
yeah
oh are you
yeah
yeah
that is a problem
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i don't either really
i i like messing with the lures and and that seems to be what the bass like
and what you can catch with the lures so that's generally
what i fish for you know because i don't particularly like to eat fish
i just like to catch them and throw them back
but it's uh you know i i got into that mode where i was buying lures and and rods and [reels] and just all kinds of stuff
i had one of those little two man little two man boats that
used to go around a lot use that a lot
but like i say i kind of got out of the fishing business when the kids got up big enough so i sold that
and but it's uh
so i'm kind of limited now to going back to uh the old farm pond
well as a matter of fact uh last last fall uh in october
i guess i bought uh i bought a boat
but i bought a ski boat
yeah
yeah
you can it's it's not the same as a bass boat
but yeah
you can get out on the water
that's the main thing
but i i used to go with a friend at work quite a bit
he had uh he had a uh bass boat
and he's the one i went to uh-oh
like i say we went to lake fork and cypress springs
and we've been to lavon and texoma just
been around quite a bit in the kind of local area
but he sold his boat too
so we just kind of kind of [grounded] ourselves in that respect
huh_uh
yeah
that's
well you don't have to
but it it makes it easier you got to have uh well if you have a texoma license you can fish anywhere on the lake
if you have only a texas license you have to stay on the texas side of the lake which uh uh as it turns out most of the lake is in oklahoma
yeah
yeah
yeah
go across the bridge across the water if it looks good
you can just pullover and start it then
yeah
now i've got most of mine hung up in the garage
now like i say it's been a while since i've since i've even gotten to go you know pretty days you know like today like this weekend
of course it's too windy now
but you know it usually dies down around [sundown] i've got a little old pond just oh just a few hundred yards from my back door that i go over there occasionally
but you know it's pretty small and got pretty small fish in it
but it's nice to get out and just start [splashing] on the water or something
no
i don't take any magazines
but i like to watch old berry [stokes] yeah
he's about my favorite
yes
huh_uh
oh really
yeah
yeah
i have taken some fishing magazines in the past
and that's that's generally what i found seemed like they spend a lot of time discussing the type fishing that i wasn't really interested in
yeah
yeah
yeah
it's really more kind of all over the south
isn't it
yeah
what uh what do you get when you join the uh b a s s what kind of benefits to you get
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
tackle and stuff
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
i know the uh bass pro shops
uh i get their catalogs but that's almost like a christmas in the summertime when that comes but
yeah
i've noticed they they're now pushing a mastercard that you know they're supposed to spend so much of the money on conservation measures and stuff
which is a good idea
yeah
especially as popular as fishing is getting you know in the last few years last five or ten years i guess it's it's really picked up in popularity again
so it's a lot more you know a lot more people using the lakes and uh facilities and putting more pressure on the fish and taking more fish out of the lakes
no
i haven't
yeah
now ray roberts i haven't been over there
but i i understand there's quite a few people who have been
i think that's really going to be a good bass lake
huh_uh
yeah
yeah
i understand it's kind of kind of restricted or or doesn't have easy access really
yeah
yeah
which is all right you know
but that that's
all you can do
that's all you can do
but it's good to get out there and like i say throw the lure out and just just [piddle] with it a little while
yeah
yeah
some of them
it takes a little while
to get them to do what you think they ought to be doing
huh_uh
it is
yeah
yeah
it's just just that that pork skin uh which you know you can get the artificial pork or you can use the real slab of pork but yeah
that's what it is
yeah
yeah
that's that's what is amazing you know all these different rigs that people come up with you know the carolina worm rig and the like i said the jig and pig
but i i like top water fishing myself you know
well we usually go fishing at toledo bend and um my parents they are the fishermen and my brother uh i i usually don't do too much fishing
i usually take my raft and float along behind the boat and get a [suntan] but they love to crappie fish
my brother likes to bass fish
so um for crappie they use shiners and uh bass
my brother usually puts a jig or something like that on there for it or a top water bait you know usually artificial bait for bass
and then uh we sometimes get [crickets] and they they fish for brim and
yeah
you haven't
uh_huh
brim uh_huh
and um also they have these uh [wasps] the the uh [larvae] is that what it's called wasp wasp [larvae] and uh-oh anytime we can find those my parents just scoop upon those because they are so good for fishing
and um they use those a lot
but usually its either shiners or
okay
no
we usually don't do i mean they catch catfish i keep saying they because i've never fished but um they catch catfish you on accident sometimes
and then whenever we do trout lines and stuff they usually get catfish
um usually not too big
probably maybe two or three pounds you know
i've seen some huge catfish
the bottom
yeah
uh_huh
well we used to just have a little aluminum boat
but uh my dad has sold it
so he's hunting a boat now i think he's looking into bass [tracker] he found him one last weekend that he really liked
but we haven't gotten it yet
so
well
oh i agree
that's right
and they're they're going to bite anytime
and uh uh he got into a place where uh we were in there where there was a bunch of sand bass schooling
and my goodness
he was throwing this was one day last summer
and he every as often as he could throw that hook out there
he'd get one
but we don't deplete the fish population because we pull them up and look at them admire them and take them off and throw them back
although he went somewhere with some friends last week and fished for catfish and got them and i think it's the first time that he's ever that he's actually prepared and ate what they caught
he and some friends of his the first time they've ever done anything but throw them back
but uh we you know we started with just [rudimentary] things like worms and night crawlers and uh and uh uh gone to uh minnows and can catch just a lot of [sandies] or even catfish with minnows uh
and we we fish at lake texoma
and then and then just kind of stop there on the way by and get the uh
and and get the and get minnows and uh it's it's pretty lot of fun
except i say you've got to have a lot of patience because some days
it doesn't seem like anything is down there at all
and then other days uh uh you you can pull them in with some degree of [regularity] it seems as the summer comes when it gets warm
and you have calm days without a lot of wind they seem to be a far more prevalent
no
yeah
oh sure
yeah
throw throw them back and let them get bigger so you can come get them next year
but you know at at texoma it's such a big lake
and we don't have a boat
but we're on the dock and people come in
there's a lot of sandy islands out in the middle of texoma
and they go out and fish around there
and people come in with these ice [chests] just full of of you know twelve fourteen sixteen eighteen inch long fish
it's the [darndest] thing i've ever seen
and i don't know
we we're probably going to have to get us a boat one of these days soon and go out and see go out and see what's really out there
oh yeah
i know they are
i used to have one
that we used to ski ski behind
and and before our our children came along
my wife and i used to ski all the time then when the
and we kept it on it was an eighteen [footer] it was kind of big to haul over the road
so we kept it at a lake
tied up and then when your children are very little
you can't go out and do things like that
and it got so the insurance and the and the uh
and the tie up fee uh was gigantic compared to what use
we were getting out of it
so i went and sold it and never bought again
and it's too bad
now that the kids are teenagers they want they'd love to get out there and learn to ski
and do the boating and fishing again
so we'll probably do something like that
do you do you camp at the lake a lot
yeah
not in the summer
oh okay
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
where where is toledo bend
oh okay
it's it's on that side
it's on the the east side what's what's the nearest big city
it's huge
yeah
and i was i is it like near tyler or [texarkana] or [parish] oh okay
exactly
half way between shreveport and dallas um
how how long does it take you to get there from shreveport
oh yeah
yeah
do you work in shreveport or go to school or what
oh
what are you majoring in
oh my goodness
i have been on the l s u campus once i took a recruiting trip for t i
there about uh uh eight or nine years ago
and i was oh i was ever so impressed with the campus in fact it was a two day trip and between [appointments] i got a chance to walk around and see it
and uh what a what a fabulous darn school it was i was just really really impressed with it
and and i know it's getting off the subject a little bit
but i i do you follow a lot of the sports at l s u
okay
well we're we're we're very strong uh women's basketball team fans
so we we follow your basketball team
your your women's basketball team
a lot
and
yeah
oh of course they are one of the best
uh they didn't do as well this year
but we saw them
we went down to austin last year
and saw them beat the longhorns in the [regionals] and and uh man they were
i guess they went to the final four last year
and and didn't make it through
but we were just uh uh just really impressed with them
what what year are you in at l s u
uh_huh
and what do you plan on doing when you get out
oh gee
what a deal on like on love boat huh
hey that's a neat thing
uh_huh
are you you then plan on maybe getting an advanced degree somewhere
oh at l s u
oh
uh_huh
what would it take about thirty hours or something like that thirty two or thirty six oh okay
that would be two long semesters and a summer maybe huh
yeah
okay
oh sure
sure
well i think i think uh the best thing to do is i've got two masters degrees
but they both came years after my [bachelors] degrees
and if i had it to do all over again i would do what you're planning to do like continue
you need to get it while you're still hot
it is it is very hard to go back and and actually the academic part isn't bad when your when you resume because it seems that things come easier
because you're more mature and you've got all your life experiences
and i thought the academic part would be harder
but it really isn't uh uh it because uh uh i don't know
i think the maturity factor uh uh over comes the fact that you've had a gap
but nevertheless it's it's so much it's so hard to get back to it
and it's it's so much easier while
you've got your academic juices flowing
i have uh my first one's in my bachelor's in chemistry and my master's in physics
and in uh in management
uh uh quality management i've been in
i've been in quality management with t i and engineering management and and uh
okay
i like well what i usually do is fresh water fishing
i haven't been salt water fishing since i was about ten
yeah
and i do everything up at lake texoma
oh yeah
i'm a striper fisherman
oh
wherever those little suckers are
but uh we camp at the lodge texoma state park over on the oklahoma side
and uh but usually when we go striper when i go out for the big ones
we travel down the you know where the channel is down the middle of the lake
we usually chase them down through there
oh yeah
oh yeah
do you ever go up there
uh_huh
oh it's good fishing
up there
yeah
of course i you know i won't throw anything back
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh my gosh
that's supposed to be the greatest time to fish
yeah
oh yeah
oh yeah
it's fun
well my dad got me hooked on it
and uh
yeah
oh god pun pun and uh we'd go out he liked to go about five thirty and you know watch the sun come up every morning
and uh boy we we knew a bunch of the striper [guides] and and so we'd follow them
and he had a c b on the boat and all that kind of stuff
and we'd just follow the channel
and when it's you know middle july through late august when it's so hot they stay down real deep all the big ones do
yeah
follow that channel on up
but uh so now my cousin will i make him get up early in the morning and take me out striper fishing and then we usually fish under the bridge at night with the kids and his wife and stuff like that because when we go a lot of times uh the waves are so big
i don't want my kids out there because it's sort of dangerous
but i love it
i love it
oh really
oh
oh how much fun
oh my goodness
uh_huh
oh my goodness
oh how much fun
uh_huh
oh my goodness
oh you're kidding
ooh
not for me
uh_huh
oh my gosh
ooh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
when i take the kids out like i say we in fact memorial day weekend we went up to the lake and uh my cousins have a boat my boat is sitting in my driveway not running
and uh so we go up there
and we decided that we'd you know go out we got everybody's tents up and camp made and all that and said come on let's go fishing
we hauled in
well we brought in thirty three fish
and we had
thrown a bunch of little ones back
and uh so then we had a huge fish fry the next afternoon
and we went back out fishing and we caught and brought in thirty three more and had
thrown a bunch of little ones back
but we had more fun those kids they've got real fishing poles
but they're the little short ones
and it was so funny because i mean they'd just be hanging over the side of the boat mom
i think i got a fish
i think i got a fish
it was hysterical
but [jamie] is getting to the age now that when i get up and go fishing early in the morning he wants to go too you know
he doesn't want to get left behind anymore
so it's getting a little difficult to do that
but we love it
we just love it
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i have to watch it because [ashley] will out fish her brother half the time
and so you know that gets a little sore
but where we camp there there's a you know little bit of a [inlet] where we park the boats and stuff
so real early in the morning before it gets hot and then you know right at dusk uh down in the trees down there
boy all those little sunfish come up
and they'll go down there while i'm cooking dinner and just start [reeling] those little babies in
and they have more fun with that
oh usually i'll buy them a thing of worms or a lot of times i just give them a piece of bacon and they're they'll tear up bacon and stick it
i mean those they'll they'll bite empty hooks that's what's so funny
and when we're out chasing the big [stripers] we use those perch for bait
yeah
it's great
but we just love it up there in fact [jamie] wanted to go up this weekend with it being fourth of july weekend
but uh i can't put the tent up and all that kind of stuff quite yet
i'm still pretty sore
so anyway but have you been uh salt water fishing
oh my goodness
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
okay
well i love to fish
i haven't in the last few years
but in fact when i married on our honeymoon
that's where we went was fishing
well i really do enjoy it
but i like i say i haven't been for years
we when after we got married a couple of years after we got married we got a boat
and we used to fish
a lot
and no
we skied too
but after the kids came we stopped you know
now i am divorced
so
yeah
they don't you know especially when they're little like that
it was difficult to have them in the boat we were always worried something would happen
so we didn't
well i liked [trolling] the best
i i mean i like moving so instead of just sitting in one spot
and i really do like to fish in the rain
yeah
i when it's not pouring i mean
but when it's just a light rain
i'm i really enjoy that
and i find that you we use to catch a lot of fish when it was raining
do pardon me
say that
cartoons
yes
oh gosh
i don't know whether i'd go that far
well see the thing is when when i i am from originally from ohio
and i met my husband in iowa and we he was from minnesota and we went on our honeymoon to minnesota
so it was
well it was in august
and so it was warm enough
but uh i cause i don't enjoy cold weather at all
so we uh we lived right by a lake
and it was nice
no
i have not
i lived in the bahamas for a year
but i didn't do any fishing
we did some scuba diving
but that's all
yeah
it's it's gorgeous
ooh how nice
uh_huh
oh
i've never fished in a farm pond
um um
no
huh_uh
ooh
oh how wonderful
relaxing too huh
oh that sounds great
oh
oh it sounds wonderful
no
i i know a lot of friends are really too hyper to fish
they have to be moving all the time
i think you have to be able to sit an and just enjoy yourself quietly if you can't do that you're not to make a good fisherman
right
well in this day and age
that's wonderful to be able to do that because our lives are so stressful
so
well real sad to say we don't as much as we i'm divorced
and and uh since we've been to texas we haven't
now in iowa when they were little
my son
i used to take him fishing and they both have you know gear
and we've we've gone once or twice
but they
there's just not that many lakes around here that i'd be interested in in going to
and so you know
and i just uh we just haven't and not that they i think they both would like it
they have gone with their dad and uh he lives in arizona now
and uh he lives in the phoenix area
and the mountains are real close
and he's taken them up to the mountains and
yeah
yeah
and they've enjoyed it
it is
yes
yeah
isn't that that is amazing isn't it
well i can remember when i was [trolling] i caught
and we couldn't eat this
it was a a rock bass and of course they're not good to eat
but i mean it was it was for me it was like a six pound fish and that was big for me
and i was just tickled to death that to catch it
we threw it back in
but uh that was
i think the biggest fish i've ever caught
well we in minnesota people just don't they don't eat them
for some reason
so
oh
is that right
see we didn't know that
so we just threw it back in
so
yes
it is uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
no
is it
uh_huh
would you have to repeatedly cast though in the no
oh
oh that sounds great
when i grew up when i was growing up my dad was an avid fisher fisherman
and we had a boat
and we would go out in lake erie
because i'm from ohio and we would fish that was before it was so polluted
and so yucky
it was a beautiful lake then
and uh we would we would fish and and my dad would i can remember even when were weren't interested when we were younger
and we would play around the the lake or around and we'd go up into michigan
and the rapids up there in grand rapids michigan were just beautiful
and he would fish he would get his you know his [waders] on
his long boots
and he would go out and we would just play by the water and just have a ball
and he would fish
and it was so gorgeous
and that was one of my wonderful childhood memories
yeah
isn't that scary
yeah
yeah
it it's bad lake erie
when i haven't been home for several years
but the last time i was home i was just so surprised to see how terrible lake erie was i mean it just was awful
and it just makes you
so sad because at one time
it was just a beautiful lake
and not too long ago
really
but it sure has
well thank you
and you have many good fishing days too
so fishing huh
do you do much fishing out there
did
well you know we moved from california
we moved from northern california
to come out here
and uh i we did quite a quite a bit of fishing out there
but uh out here in uh in texas it's all man made lake
oh is that right
oh
yeah
well that's kind of the thing here in in
dallas
and it's it's a whole different kind of fishing than than uh i uh am use to in california
i'm use to deep sea fishing out there and fishing off the pier and stuff
and uh out here in dallas you have to use lures and all kinds of different things
i haven't had a chance to go out fishing much here
but i use to do a lot of fishing out in california
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
wow
they did a lot of salmon fishing up there then
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
it is
and uh the bait that they use is uh is totally different in california than it is here in texas
and uh uh you know we uh use to use live bait in california
and they do use some live bait here
but not a not uh whole lot not like you know you use to use in
california
and uh
yeah
how many kids do you have
two
two little boys
wow
you got two little ones then huh
well i have got four
i have got a twelve year old an eleven and uh six and a three
so
you are
oh
that's true
oh that's
we use to have a lot of fun when i was actually my two boys were born here in texas
but uh my two girls i use to take them with me when when uh we would go fishing you know
and my wife and i use to like fishing off the pier and stuff
and we'd catch uh shoot
one time she she caught a couple of sharks off the pier and uh you know we caught uh what do you call uh those flat things
and we you know we'd get crab and stuff off the pier and and uh that's that's stuff that we that we miss being here in texas we don't have much of a chance to get out to the coast
and and uh
yeah
my wife loved to fish
she didn't like to uh she doesn't like to put the bait on
but you know that was my job
i just put the bait on
and she'd catch the fish in fact we use to go out and and this was not really that funny at the time
but it's funny now you know i'd we would get two poles
and i would you know i took hers out she would be out there
and i haven't uh i i wouldn't even be able to tie my hook on she would catch a fish and she would yell at me to come and take the fish off
so i'd take it off and walk back and put my hook on she'd call again to get get the fish off her hook
i mean it went like that for a whole hour
uh_huh
uh_huh
you'd talk to the fish
uh_huh
yeah
well uh that's my wife
yeah
that's my wife uh every time we go fishing
she's the one that catches them
and i'm the one that takes them off and baits the hook
and then it goes all over again
so
oh is that right
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
my heck
oh that's funny
uh_huh
now do you like eating uh eating fish
is that right
bass fishing
in fact we came from a tournament this weekend
huh
well i weighed in a fish
my husband didn't
so i'm ahead of him
right now
this one was just a one day sometimes we have two days
it's uh with the t i bass club
so
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's based on the total pounds
and you go according to the lake rules like mostly you can't weigh one in
that's under fourteen inches
and so i got one that was just fourteen inches
so i weighed it in
it was a little over a pound
in our in our club it's men and women mixed we have a lot of couple's teams
well we have the individual you weigh in as individuals
and then you uh combine your [totals] as a team
so they award prizes for individual and team
so
yeah
they in our club
we um uh the lewisville t i we have our club and we all fish together once a month and then once a year we get together with the rest of the t i bass clubs
and we compete as a club against the others
yeah
we have a good time
no
huh_uh
sometimes at night
we'll go out crappie fishing
but just to be going out
it's not a tournament or anything
what kind do you do
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
ooh how
fun
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
i bet
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
that sounds neat
huh
um lake lake michigan they have
salmon there
okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
we uh we were up there
one year for a family reunion
and we went out on lake michigan
and but the weather was so bad
we couldn't go out very far
and we didn't stay out very long at all
so my husband got one
and the rest of didn't get anything
so
oh i would love to
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
wow
yeah
you ever been deep sea fishing
uh_huh
yeah
we've been a couple of time
well i just went once
and i got so seasick
i never went back
but we go in mexico
and uh we caught one trip we caught four well there was four of us
and we got four um [sailfish] and a dolphin oh it was that was the first fish
i'd ever
actually i don't have much recent experience
uh but i have done uh a variety of fishing probably the most favorite uh was when i was a youth um probably in the ages ten to fifteen when i went out with my dad uh we lived in we lived on the uh southeast coast of florida about a mile from the ocean
we went out off the coast of fort [lauderdale] miami
in a small boat with
a small outboard motor and went out a mile two miles three miles sometimes and bottom fished and uh and got lots of fish very rapidly basically went out to a reef and uh which probably about oh ten [fathoms] or something like that
and uh and we just pull up fish usually pull up fish as fast you could let your line down
and sometimes uh had some fun uh with trigger fish that would follow other fish up and then then you'd catch the trigger fish right at the surface occasional shark or an occasional [octopus] or things of that nature
but
yeah
well that was pretty rare you know
but once in a while
you'd get something like that
i see
now where do you do uh trout fishing in wyoming
i see
so you would fish in the lake
and the fly fishing is in the stream or what
huh
you fish from the bank or do you wade uh_huh
oh yeah
where abouts in wyoming is this
i see
where abouts is this
i see that's quite different from the east coast the the uh gulf coast uh you have to go out maybe ten or twenty miles before you get more than knee deep almost
whereas on the east coast uh you go out a mile and you're already uh five ten [fathoms] down
huh
so what did what did you get off sarasota
have you ever been sport fishing
i'd like to do that some time i've never been sport fishing the closest i've come is to is uh go out on party boats [drift] fishing
you know which is pretty nice
we did that in new jersey not too many years ago
and uh did it just at the right time
and we got into just schools and schools of blue fish
big ones about each one weighed about ten pounds
you know they were about like uh three four feet long
oh yeah
yeah
that was really uh i guess they maybe about three feet long not four
but uh that was something they really fought like
you like nothing else i'd ever had
okay  
uh well we probably have about three months   approximately  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we live on a  
used to be a farm  
but we don't farm much  
we uh but we do have a garden  
oh  
i wish i could be doing that  
uh_huh  
right  
you almost have   to get started pretty early probably i guess  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you've had more freezing this winter or this yeah winter i think  
more bad weather  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are you do you work  
or are you retired  
or you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh my husbands retired  
but he's not a gardener  
he he he's been helping me more  
but he really isn't uh real crazy about gardening  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
but it's a pleasure to like you said it's good to get outside  
and   and i like i like my garden too  
we didn't have to we have just a small garden  
but we planted corn last year too which takes quite a bit of space  
we we didn't have too good luck with it  
because the uh we had a couple of good real good wind storms  
and it really damaged the corn  
so we didn't get too much corn   last year  
uh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we don't we don't usually cover ours  
we did a few different times  
sometimes we've covered with the plastic  
and other years we've tried newspapers  
and uh but we generally don't we do our watering from our spring  
yeah  
we have an old fashioned pipe sitting that you know water runs into  
and   my husband set up a pump that runs  
it runs first down  
and then it stops  
and when the water comes up it comes on again  
and we use that to water our garden   with  
so  
oh i do  
i do  
i love it  
i'd rather be doing that than housework  
uh not a well not a whole lot  
i think our [cabbages] and [broccolis] and that we have more trouble with that type of thing with the the  
yeah  
uh  
uh_huh  
do you go more for natural keeping them off naturally  
or do you   use insecticides  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well our lawn is is a big lawn because because we live out in the country  
and so we were not our lawn is not perfect you know  
it's just the   it's just a lawn  
uh_huh  
do you eat any of them  
oh did well did does your wife ever make uh bake in a hot bacon dressing like for   salad  
oh it's delicious  
and it goes real good on dandelions  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
use the greens if you get them when they're young and tender you know before they have grown too   too tall  
because they do get a little [stringy]  
but uh they're kind of fun to to try  
get a get a few  
and then throw them in with the rest of your salad sometimes  
yeah  
yeah  
uh but i've been cutting our grass too lately because my husband's back  
and he's been having trouble with  
so wasn't allowed to run a lawn mower  
so it takes about four hours to cut our grass  
and we have we have hills  
i'm afraid of the hills  
but   i'm getting on to it  
i just pretend they're not there  
and i just go ahead and do it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
great  
that's a lot of people don't have that much space even  
uh_huh  
so you have all the conveniences of   a city  
yeah  
and and the country also  
well you never have enough room do you think   especially if your into any hobbies or anything  
rolly polly what  
is it a bug   you mean  
a worm  
a [cutworm]  
not a grub worm  
oh  
uh  
uh_huh  
i'm trying to think of what they are what kind   they could be  
you find them under bricks usually and that  
they're not a slug  
not a  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
they were not hard are they  
are they a hard worm  
they're not a hard  
huh  
oh   are they black then  
but they roll up  
i can't think of what kind they would be  
uh_huh  
i'm no help on that then because   i can't think of what they are what they would be  
i think you have a lot more insects down there even than than what we have  
i know   my brother had trouble with fire ants and that even  
uh yeah  
and they be can be a real [dickens]  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you keep trading them  
uh_huh  
ours are going to be coming out  
now our cancer society sales daffodils  
right now they're they're big now  
so we we have daffodils   here in the house because of the cut flowers  
but they're just beginning to come out and bud  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
uh they're such a nice bright early spring   color  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and they're   beautiful too  
they're beautiful  
oh my  
yeah  
yeah  
we won't have too much here for another couple of months yet  
yeah  
yeah  
we're it's raining today  
well our grass like i said is just grass  
we really didn't plant anything  
it's just  
i suppose maybe you call it crabgrass even  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it's probably   very pretty  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we have some people that have done their lawns  
and uh  
so do you have do you have the long  
i guess not not if there's  
see i was raised in new york  
but i guess up there you all don't have too long of a growing season do you  
do   do you do your own gardening  
do you  
huh see i got mine in  
well let's see  
i put in pepper plants this weekend  
yeah  
i got all my little [seedlings] coming up in the kitchen  
and i enjoy [tinkering] with it   you know  
it's pretty hot down here during the summer  
we hit you know a hundred hundred and two sometimes  
but you know we don't do too much during the summer as far as tomatoes and stuff   like that  
yeah  
i can usually i can put in oh probably mid march i can put anything in the ground   you know beets and onions   and stuff like that  
but then i have to wait for my  
tomatoes have to go in here in the next couple of weeks  
as soon as we're sure we're not going to have another freeze   go ahead finish it  
yeah  
we've   had just a few you know that freezes a little here and there  
but   every once in a while we get a freeze around the middle of april  
and it's pretty tough  
no  
i work uh  
i'm only forty years old  
i have to work  
uh i i really enjoy it  
it gives me time outdoors  
and you know i'm a golfer  
but it gives me time outdoors and time around my house  
and i burned my grass off here in the last couple of days   getting ready to start to the spring season and see if i can grow me another nice lawn  
i usually have a pretty nice lawn  
it's a lot of work   you know  
but it's  
yeah  
it is  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
we're going through that  
we going through the dust storms down here now  
so but i uh what i did with my garden is i have a a two by six frame that's five by ten  
i have two of them sitting side by side  
and then i put uh like a black plastic  
it's really not a black plastic  
they call it [wedet]  
and i put that down  
and then i put up a couple of inches of pine moss on top of that  
and i use a one of those black [poker] hoses that actually [oozes] water every where  
so i waste it up and down there a couple of times  
and i only have to water about two hours a week  
and it's pretty nice  
especially during the summer it keeps everything wet   instead of [wilting]  
oh  
oh you have a spring  
how nice  
uh_huh  
oh that's   that's pretty nice  
but you actually enjoy it huh  
do you  
get out there on your hands and knees   and crawl around  
i i can imagine  
you all have much trouble up there with insects  
or  
with the worms  
yeah  
i have quite a bit of problem down here with the squash bugs   and haven't figured out how to get rid of those yet  
yeah  
i try to  
no  
i uh uh try not to use any insecticides at all  
i try not to even use insecticides on my lawn  
but   i sometimes i can't manage  
yeah  
well mine's full of dandelions   now  
so  
no  
i never have  
i don't know how to prepare them  
no  
huh_uh  
really  
huh  
i've never eaten dandelions  
now i've tried [dandelion] wine  
but i've never tried any dandelions just to eat  
yeah  
all right  
yeah  
i'll try that  
i sure will  
oh oh  
[yow]  
so you all are into   so you all are into the lawn big time huh  
yeah  
i only get well i guess i got  
my my whole section of my house is probably a tenth of an acre  
then i have a pretty nice backyard  
and you know i've got enough room to throw [horseshoes]   you know   couple of other  
no  
and it's nice  
i'm just inside the city limits  
i'm probably a mile mile and a half inside the city limits  
and i'm only a mile   and a half from work  
yeah  
it's pretty nice  
i have the room outside i need  
and i don't really have all the room in the house i need  
but  
no  
i have a question to ask you about gardening though  
you know those  
what are they called  
the they called uh rolly polly bugs  
that's what my son calls them anyway  
rolly polly bugs  
the ones that roll up in a ball  
i don't know what they're called  
they look like they've got  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
it's not like a  
no  
you find them under bricks and all that stuff where it's moist  
and if if you touch them they roll up in a ball  
i don't know what they call them  
but i'm plagued with those things  
and i haven't figured out  
i even called the nursery  
i   i don't know  
yeah  
under bricks or under wood  
or you know if you leave a piece of newspaper in the yard too long they get in there  
they usually come out at night  
but you can find them during the daytime if you pick something up that's been laying around  
no  
a slug is actually kind of slimy  
and these are just  
he plays with them all time  
he picks them up and rolls them across the patio  
no  
no  
they're not real hard  
they're like a water bug   of sorts  
i don't know what   they're called  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
when you touch them they roll up  
but i'm plagued with those  
you know i think it's a big problem because we're in more of a [tempered] zone  
you know we don't really we only freeze down here in january and february at the most  
you know  
yeah  
i got fire   ants too  
and you spray in one part of your lawn  
and they just move to   another part  
so you got to   spray your whole yard  
and your your your neighbor gets them  
and then he sprays his yard  
and you get them back again  
yeah  
but we're not doing too bad down here really you know  
the daffodils are out  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
see mine are up and bloomed already  
so  
already  
they sure are   pretty  
i like them  
yeah  
and then in in my back flower bed i have uh [tiger] lilies  
and they bloom in you know   late june mid   july  
yeah  
they are  
they real   beautiful  
they're they're nice and green you know  
they're uh they're up above a foot   maybe eighteen inches  
they come up real pretty   every year   no problem  
is it still pretty cool up there  
well do you all have a  
what kind o grass do you grow up there  
do you grow uh bermuda or  
yeah  
yeah  
see we i have bermuda   in my yard  
and i still have the old [standby] crabgrass here and there  
but   bermuda seems to be  
yeah  
bermuda seems to be pretty   good down here  
okay  
um what do you do this weekend  
huh which is  
what do you plan have planned for your yard  
uh_huh  
huh  
what part of the state do you live in  
oh okay  
okay  
my wife and i we live in dallas too  
so  
yeah  
just what that area  
we're planning on moving to flower mound  
and we're going to be getting some wheel  
we're going to have to do a lot of lawn and garden work there  
seems like it  
uh the place we've been living at it's uh we're we're just leasing it  
the in plano and the soil has so much has such a high clay content   that uh uh i went to use my dad in law's tiller and it about for my arms off   [sockets]  
i mean just just [scratching] two or three inches was just a chore  
it was it was  
and then when it gets wet you know you don't even want to get out in the yard  
it's horrible  
it's a nightmare  
but um i don't know what what  
um where you live is there a real high uh [alkaline] or ash content  
or  
yeah  
yeah  
i know right where that's at  
uh_huh  
really  
golly  
is it is it limestone under underneath  
how do you put trees in there  
huh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
we we tried planting tomatoes last year  
and it they they turned out pretty poor  
i just i i just wish i'd known the the variety and everything  
but it it's amazing we also have roses  
and i mean they just grow so beautifully  
like what um what type roses  
oh hybrid [teas]  
yeah  
we we have a few uh of the real short stem  
they're they're kind of like the bush roses  
but uh i don't know i think it's i think it only has about five or six more years to go because it's a it's a really old bush  
and but i i i'm amazed because the sun is so intense  
and the roses just seem to survive just fine there  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
have you have you uh done um done a lot of tree surgeon work on your trees or not  
yeah  
yeah  
just if you want a lot of you know light for underneath   that may be the all right because we had because we have some we have some old fruit trees  
we have a plum that's just about ready to go  
so we may just be getting rid of that  
but but our peaches they they seem to be doing just fine  
but they they really need [pruning]  
it just seems like they that that even you know [pruning] once a year is really not enough  
but the the way they behave  
i don't know  
but uh but uh what kind of uh what kind of what kind of grass are you growing  
bermuda  
yeah  
oh i've i've been trying uh uh a mixture of uh the bermuda and the rye  
but i may be working like a fescue in because of you know the type of weather  
it seems that uh bermuda's bermuda's fine  
but um it looks like it would hold the soil  
but it really doesn't  
a lot of a lot [silt] that comes in it just doesn't seem to hold it very well  
but uh but the rye does really well especially during the wintertime  
but uh but boy once it gets over seventy seventy five degrees that it just dries up   [shrivels] up and dies  
but anyway  
yeah  
my my parents in law they're they're building a house into the side of a hill um  
well it's already been built and everything  
they've been living there for about three months now  
but uh this is out in west texas  
but the the wind there has been so bad that i mean they've tried to plant grass  
and they just have some problems   big time problems  
they just   so they just washing uh watching their lawn just blow away  
but it's it's quite an undertaking  
they have about two or three acres of land on lake front property   on a on the side of a hill  
it's beautiful  
i mean   you can see the house from you know miles away  
but it's you know it's a pretty neat little job  
but   they save a lot of they save a lot of energy  
but just uh you know for them i mean they they're going to have to start gardening  
it's going to be from the ground up  
the whole way  
and they said well we just plan on spending the rest of our lives just getting this property developed  
it's amazing  
i mean   they have have the all they have are uh mesquite and [cottonwoods]  
and uh it's it's all on lake greenbelt   that property out there  
and uh i don't know that what they have  
they have all the water they want  
they can they can actually they can pump water  
i mean they have to get permission  
but they can pump water up from the shore  
but uh that's for like an additional  
they have to pay like some kind of fee per year  
but uh they're uh right now though i think they're just they're trying to get the trees planted and everything  
but man i i just think of all of the money that they that they're going to have to spend just getting that  
but the taxes alone there lake greenbelt  
and some places they they they really nail them for tax  
and i mean your talking what just several hundred dollars a year in property taxes  
it's it's ridiculous  
yeah  
no  
no  
it's not it's  
because even though it's far out there it's just that lake greenbelt you know they have to they they try to do it just from the selling the water  
but um the water usage you know they try to limit even though there's three or four streams that flow into it people still use it enough in like in towns like [clarendon] and other areas that where they [irrigate]  
they they they still haven't gotten used to the dry land farming  
but   the irrigation because it's gotten so bad the past few years  
but i don't know  
i just came back from there  
and just the air is so dry  
i don't see how anything can survive out there   for long periods of time  
should say  
my father in law says the mesquite trees are they're they're pretty smart  
they're smart  
they're about the [smartest] tree around  
they don't they don't even start growing until may   may or april like after it's been raining for a few months  
they say the roots have developed  
so that's all they work on  
just a leafy  
they don't do anything  
uh_huh  
i i don't know  
my my wife and i we planted on the on the south side of our of our house we planted some [gardenias]  
and they did real fine during the summertime  
it's just  
but during the fall when it stopped when uh the rain let off just a little bit it i mean it just dried up  
and uh so i guess it these plants they just they don't  
it's like they remain  
well uh pretty much spent most of my time either in the yard or at nurseries buying stuff for the yard  
well uh we just bought our house uh last july  
and it's it it the house is forty years old  
so there's there's an established lawn and whatnot flower beds things like that  
but they've uh they've gone a few years of neglect  
so we're in the process of uh [revitalizing] the whole situation  
we've got um different flower beds in front and uh a window box a built in window box um trying to get some color back in those get the trees trimmed up uh get rid of a few weed problems and things like that  
so  
uh i live in dallas  
okay  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i'll bet  
i'll bet  
right  
right  
yeah  
it's pretty high  
actually it's done uh  
it's in the north end of oak cliff in uh [kessler] park area  
and uh we've got about  
yeah  
we've we've got maybe eight to eight inches to a foot of soil  
and then it's solid rock from then on down  
so  
yeah  
it's uh a little aggravating  
we can't we can't put in anything too big um as far as uh shrubs and things like that because they've got to get a chance to find the find the cracks in the rock  
but uh  
yeah  
it is  
it's it's solid limestone  
uh you just we're just happy that there's trees already there so far  
um anything like that is is a uh major undertaking i guess uh  
sprinkler systems or anything uh start to get real expensive because there's an awful lot of work that has to be done [chopping] through the rock  
but uh  
and it you know not even consider considering a pool or anything like that that's that's   practically has to be blasted in i guess  
but uh  
and it makes it makes for a a different challenge  
i've never  
well i i moved to dallas about five years ago  
and uh i never really messed with anything uh gardening or anything like that until now  
but uh i i keep hearing all the stories of of different parts of town  
in fact uh we even we were at the farmers market yesterday and bought a few tomato plants and things like that  
and the first thing the the old guy there at the stand asked is what part of town we lived in because he said uh i've got i've got a dozen different varieties  
and each one works in one part of town  
and that's it  
that's basically what he was trying to tell us  
yeah  
yeah  
it  
yeah  
that  
in fact we put in some uh some more roses yesterday  
uh different uh a few different uh hybrid tea type varieties  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
that's we that's what we're searching uh  
we've got we've got all the different lake [editions] around the house  
and we're we're kind of experimenting right now  
we do we've got the direct sun in front  
and the backyard has two great big uh [spruce] and and an oak tree all about forty to fifty foot tall  
so the backyard is just complete dark all day long  
and uh we're we're struggling to find something for those areas  
no  
they're they're in pretty good condition  
uh we've been we've been pretty lucky on that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
it's uh bermuda  
yeah  
okay  
right  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's uh  
there's such a there's such a difference   through the year uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's it  
yeah  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
uh_huh  
okay  
oh okay  
sure  
uh_huh  
wow  
that really is  
it it would  
it seem like it be just the opposite when you get  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true that  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's something i've been uh been looking around and noticed all the [flowering] trees and stuff are   at this time of the year  
and you know we're trying to decide what what to what to put on one side of the house and things like that  
but there's so many things that they they last for just a couple of weeks  
and then it then it's just a a bush there from then on  
it's kind of it's kind of disappointing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
phil i guess a good question to ask is do you do your own work or do you like to do it  
yeah  
yeah  
so do you have a do you have a garden  
or do you just do your landscaping now and your lawn  
well that's pretty good  
my my sister is very over [zealous] too  
she's got some really nice flower beds  
she puts a lot of time into them  
this is my first year in a in a house where i'm thinking about doing some flower beds and stuff  
oh we i've always had [crude] ones at my father's  
but   this is the first time that i really have to landscape a house  
his house is more like a farm house  
it's not on a main road  
my house is on a main road  
and it has nothing  
i mean nothing  
but um what i do do and i've always done it is  
at my father's house we have my sister and i have a couple of gardens  
i think we figured out total this is for vegetables   about two thirds of an acre  
so we each have a third of an acre we do  
that's a lot  
yeah  
well it's my dad's  
and we've had it for he's been there for a long time  
so um it just happens they built a shopping center next to it  
but um they put up a nice fence  
so we still have a lot of privacy  
and we grow a lot of food  
uh i enjoy it  
um the gardens are kind of old  
you have to step down in them now   because we've tilled them so much  
but there's still  
we we my sister uses probably a fertilizer  
i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing  
but i wish this phone would stop [screeching]  
yes  
i'm trying  
i don't know if it's my phone  
this is bad  
it's not getting any better  
oh okay  
i don't see i don't think my phone really does that  
but every time i have this phone is a little weird  
i mean it's been dropped on the floor a hundred times  
yeah  
i was beating on the phone going  
can you hear me  
yeah  
yeah  
we grow a lot of uh the basic corn potatoes  
she likes to really get into her [pumpkins]  
and see how many she can grow corn potatoes  
and uh [acorn] squash are good winter keepers  
i mean things the way we grow are carrots cabbage that sort of goes to waste  
you know we eat it we  
just too much  
she she starts her own plants  
she plants a lot of tomatoes  
i let her do all the planting and putting  
and i i do a lot of the uh a lot of the the the back work and stuff  
but she does she helps me a lot too  
she puts a lot of financial  
she plans it all out  
beans like to be near certain types of plants  
now they find that tomatoes don't do well if you put them next to something like uh peas  
i don't know  
something  
no  
it's just like something like an onion and a tomato would go together but you're not supposed to put your onions near your beans  
i guess it's it's just what [scents] it gives off  
they just don't like each other  
i mean she she reads all kinds of books  
so i wish i knew more to tell you why  
but  
yeah  
oh that's really weird  
i've put my cucumbers down at one end of the garden  
and like i'll make an l shape i've put my cantaloupe  
so they've been pretty close together  
but i don't think the vines  
they don't they don't have to be touching or anything  
like you say they cross [pollinate] just by bees  
um  
something weird  
this year this last season it was too wet up here  
we lost a lot of our root things our squash and our potatoes  
and we got half our [yield]  
it was really bad because of the water  
yeah  
yeah  
i have to do that  
i want to make some flower beds  
and i'm going to have a seven yard truck come in with some top soil  
and i'm going to  
my problem is i want to use those rail ties to build up a [planter]  
but i don't know if the [creosote] in the rail ties is going to do something you know if i want to grow a tomato or something   in there  
i mean i guess it'd go with my flowers  
yeah  
i don't i don't i just don't think you  
i always thought i'd put a tomato plant in there or something weird  
but i don't think i could really eat the fruit off it without wondering  
and i don't know if they make landscape ties that aren't treated  
yeah  
but they put   some kind of chemicals in there too  
yeah  
well i'm not really worried about it  
it's mainly for flower bed  
so i'm not going to no i'm just not going to put that tomato plant in there  
but i  
yeah  
i do want to have a raised bed  
i've never  
my flower gardens are always been like on the ground  
they don't it just looks so much better when it's up against the house [tiered] up  
yeah  
this house that i have is just a three bedroom ranch  
and i can tell you there's nothing around it cement   foundation all the way around it not a [shrub] not a bush  
there was a lilac tree  
and the landlord cut it down and said yeah that's one thing you have to do is keep that lilac bush cut down so it doesn't rub up against the siding  
and i'm looking at him like jeez  
people would kill to have a lilac bush  
and he's cutting it down  
so that's all right  
flower beds are all right  
anything as long as it doesn't rub up against the siding  
yeah  
that's what he's worried about the trees or a bush because lilac bushes they they grow fast  
some people uh would really like to have them  
and then the people that do have them they spread and they [sprout] all over their lawn  
so they're kind of a pain  
but you know people who don't have them think they're great  
and people who do have them   curse  
another thing i have that um is weird is the a [locus] tree in the back yard  
as a matter of fact there's three of them very badly trimmed  
they aren't trimmed at all  
and i can imagine if i had to mow the lawn in the back which we said we'd do if the trees hang down  
so and the [locus] trees have like three quarters of an inch [thorns] on it  
they're a pretty tree  
but you just when you walk up to them they're covered with [thorns]  
so we're going to get a chain saw and limb it extensively so it gets the trees up overhead  
yeah  
because i can just see brushing up against it that it would   rip your skin  
it's worse than a rose bush  
many times worse because of course it's a tree  
yeah  
my dad used to work on them  
so i don't think i'll have a problem  
my husband will have problems borrowing one  
well if that's not the problem  
yeah  
well i um  
about or just over a year ago i bought my own house  
so this has been the first opportunity i've had to uh be working on my own lawn and garden  
and uh you know when back when i was a kid you know mom would send me out to weed the garden  
i i'd hate it you know  
now i sort of take pride in uh in the yard and you know how the place looks  
and uh so i don't mind doing it so much anymore  
well it's yeah it's it's primarily just uh like landscaping a little bit  
you know i've got some uh bushes around the you know foundation planning things like that  
and then there's some just some little flower beds  
and my mom grows  
she's an avid gardener  
and she starts her own stuff from seed now  
and she gets a little over [zealous] when she is planting these seeds in the wintertime and starting them  
uh she ends up with so many plants that she can't fit them all in her garden  
they have a huge yard and a huge house  
and so she brings them up here from philadelphia and gives me all her extras  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
jeez  
that's   more than that's more than the property i have right here that you've got as a uh garden  
that's amazing  
right  
oh jeez  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
are you getting a lot of static on your end of the line  
yeah  
i can't even hear what you're  
oh jeez  
it's gone  
well i don't know  
there was  
well whatever it was there was a second there  
i couldn't even hear what you were saying  
but um  
yeah  
i guess i was having a hard time there too  
i thought it sounded  
well i guess we better stick to the subject   for the benefit of the people uh uh doing this work  
but uh  
yeah  
i mean that's a heck of a  
you must have a lot of different stuff you get out of there  
especially up in vermont there you should have uh some really nice soil  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh really  
because of like the cross [pollination]  
or  
huh  
huh my mom put uh [cantaloupes] and cucumbers near each other once  
and the got cross [pollinated] by the bees  
and we ended up with these these like things on the cantaloupe vines that i mean were looked like round big huge round cucumbers  
yeah  
i mean there these were like some mutant  
huh  
no  
it's just the like the bees and insects will do it  
either that or my mom just had some bad seed or something  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh well  
yeah  
when i  
my family used to live in [littleton] massachusetts  
and when we moved in there we had a a really wet backyard  
and uh my mom wanted a vegetable garden  
so we [trucked] in uh  
i think it was seven what was it [cubic] seven yards [cubic] yards  
i think that's how they measure dirt  
yeah  
seven yards of sand  
i got to [shovel] it all lots of fun  
uh_huh  
sure  
right  
well it seems  
i've seen a lot of people use them you know for flower beds  
but i don't know what whether they'd have [creosote] would do anything  
i mean  
uh_huh  
well you can get um you can get [pressurized] lumber  
oh that's right  
there's even there's bad chemicals in those too  
all right  
right  
well you can see it a little better  
and it stands out  
um  
oh gee   yeah  
rub up against the siding uh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they're like  
i think i've seen those before  
but i don't remember what they look like  
so it'll give you room to get under it  
sure  
yeah  
um  
oh a tree is always something very nice to have  
then you got to get him to  
if he's going to do it you've got to twist his arm to get him to go do it  
all right  
uh_huh  
how fine  
um  
oh boy  
uh_huh  
oh really  
wow  
um well we just moved to our first home  
and we had lived in a condominium before  
so we didn't have any lawn and garden type duties  
so we're just learning the [ropes] here  
and  
but when we moved in um  
our backyard has so many tall trees in it that there there wasn't even a blade of grass in the backyard  
so we're you know going talking to some of our friends that are [landscapers] and things and learning about different kinds of grass  
we trying to go grow grass  
and it just seems so funny to me that when i grew up in missouri  
and you didn't have to worry about growing grass there  
it just happened automatically  
yes  
we are  
we tried we planted some fescue last um fall  
and it's really really pretty  
and um green  
it stayed pretty pretty green throughout the winter  
and it's pretty  
it's not as thick and as nice  
it doesn't look like it can [withstand] too much you know  
it's supposed to die off like in august  
and then you replant it in september  
and   so but we don't  
the saint augustine and all that supposedly was back there just wasn't  
like i say there really wasn't even one blade of grass in the backyard  
and um so mostly you know we're not even to the point where we're getting into flowers   and flower beds or even gardens that we're just saying let's get some grass  
let's get grass so that the kids can play in the yard and not have to be worried about the dirt so much you know  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh no  
on its own  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
it's pretty remarkable because growing up we've always had a beautiful lush green lawn  
and we never  
there was no such thing as watering your lawns   in missouri  
it just happened  
and um so it's been real fun here to see  
there's a big market for the nurseries and for the landscaping companies  
and a lot of people um  
we live in north of dallas  
and um  
plano  
uh_huh  
up north  
and so there's a lot of market up here since it's kind of the area that people are moving into in the dallas area   and big market for for yards yard work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
they do  
i noticed that they're really putting in small back yards because they have these most of the houses have the alleys   that run behind  
and so that really cuts into your backyard space  
and but we don't do our work here out of enjoyment so much as  
right now we're just this is we just moved in in september  
so we're just still at the point where we're talking about the necessity  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um  
hm  
we  
uh_huh  
grass  
um  
or what it was  
well we're going to have to do that because we have the shade the trees  
this is an established and older home that we moved into  
and um the trees are just so tall  
and there must be ten or twelve big tall trees out there so that like even if its raining you can go out in our back yard and not get wet  
well that's what we're looking forward to  
and that's what they say the payoff is  
but  
well we  
too hot  
yes  
well there are all different kinds  
there are some oaks [magnolias] and like plum trees peach trees  
there are some big tall oak trees  
well um we lived  
i grew up in san antonio  
and i was used to the heat  
and i was used to what couldn't grow down there  
and we had a small um farm house out in castroville which is just uh to the west of san antonio  
and we did a lot of gardening out there and uh mostly in raised beds so we could keep the uh soil nice because basically out there it was mostly a clay soil very hard to to grow very hard to [cultivate]  
and when we came up here uh to california uh we're in the monterrey area  
and it's very uh nice sandy soil rich soil  
and the weather is perfect for growing just about anything you want to grow   so we've been out here well really in the house since december  
and we've been uh planting flowers that we could never plant   in san antonio because the heat would just dry them up after you know about three good weeks of nice weather before the heat started  
and here they are supposed to last year around   so we have some really pretty flowers growing  
and uh we're at the edge of a forest area so there's a lot of pine mulch  
just about anything you would want in texas as a gardener is here just around us  
we got here at the end of about a four year drought  
we've had a whole lot of rain  
uh it's been raining pretty much continually now uh off and on maybe one day of break for about a month  
so  
yeah  
we're getting [replenished]  
and so there is  
when i first came here everything was yellow  
the grass was dead everywhere  
and now with all the rain everything is just gorgeous lush and green and beautiful  
and i hope that it holds out here after the summer  
but uh that has been the major change that we have noticed in gardening  
and that's about the extent of what we've done just a little bit on the patio and waiting for the rain to [subside] so we can mow  
we after about a month we finally got to mow this weekend  
but um we're just so happy to see green  
it's just so nice  
we haven't really done too much else other than that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so do you have to get a shade tolerant grass  
is that what you're  
uh_huh  
oh  
does that last through the summer too  
oh  
uh_huh  
just get grass to grow  
well when we had our house um out in castroville the problem with ours is that the uh plots there are a third of an acre   and trying to keep grass alive during a summer on a piece of ground that big was expensive  
to water it  
and uh and eventually well especially when it was so bad last year well i guess it was the year before now uh it was so hot that year  
that was the year that i think it started out a hundred in february  
um we were just watering all the time  
finally what we did was we said we're going to have to let the back yard die  
it's going to have to do whatever it's going to do because   we can't really afford the front yard  
and so when we left you know the back yard had some um  
i think it was saint augustine that we had  
it had held onto a small portion  
but primarily once the weeds start in the back we were just you know [resigned] to well the only way we were going to fix this one is that if you [plow] it all under   and put everything back on top of it again  
but i don't know  
that's the bad thing there is that we spent so much money  
or you would spend so much money trying to keep a large lawn alive  
that was the only thing i didn't like about lawns  
and we were sitting there wondering there must be a better way to landscape so that you don't have to spend so much money trying to keep the lawn alive and green and the weeds out  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
arlington area  
okay  
plano  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i imagine  
so well everybody it seems like everyone is so particular especially in the dallas area  
there there's so much money  
and everyone can afford  
they have enough leisure time to afford a nice lawn  
and another thing i've noticed is that the lawns in some of the homes  
the area is so small   that they take great pride in being able to use whatever lawn they do have to look really nice  
uh_huh  
right  
i know  
oh it's awful the first house  
our house in castroville was the first one too  
and we had no idea the expense that lawns and gardening would run into   and the time that it took especially when you start mowing  
and then when it comes to fertilize then it would come to raking  
and then when it comes to making sure that somebody had put the timer on the water  
and the one thing that i did notice is that people that have the underground irrigation systems the sprinkler systems just that was the way to go   if you could do it  
people that were building the new homes that put those in that was that was the only way to go because it was just so convenient  
they would just turn it on  
and the timer would run  
and it would water their lawn  
and they didn't have to worry about it at all  
and that was so nice  
but we didn't have that luxury  
so we were dragging the sprinkler around everywhere  
and so i hope you can find uh  
i don't know what type of grass grows in the real shady areas  
i remember the guy that was on the radio um  
they had a gardener  
and he  
i don't know  
i had this one well i've still got the book  
it's um i think it's just called texas gardening  
and it talks about the different grasses to use for the shady areas versus the really sunny areas  
but there is a grass that you can use that is shade tolerant  
but i don't remember what it is  
but it's got like a boot on the front of the book  
it's just a real fancy decorated boot  
it's like texas gardening  
and it talks about you know different problems that your lawn can have and how to recognize it  
and it goes into the full gamut of gardening you know everything from flowers to bulbs to perennials to grass to weeds to trees and to uh how to [prune]  
but one of the things i do remember was when it talked about the grass   and there being the shade tolerant types of grass  
and i think one of them was a blend of two types of grass that they had used  
but i don't i don't remember if it was raleigh and saint augustine or or what  
but i do remember they had used a blend  
oh but that's so neat because so many homes don't have that  
so you'll be cool all year around  
in the summer that's great  
it makes the biggest difference   when you have the big old trees  
and the people that moved in next to us they built a new house on the empty lot  
and they just had their brand new little trees  
they didn't have any shade  
they any time they had people over they had to do it on the patio because it just got too hot during the day  
so oh that's great that you have them  
are they oaks  
oh that's even better  
what type of lawn and garden work do you do  
i see  
do you have a garden  
we do the same thing  
it's i just have a small plot it's like ten feet by five feet  
i see  
yeah  
you do a lot more area than i do  
i've  
all the rest of my yard backyard is uh you know pool and decking  
it's all the dirt i have   left in my backyard  
well i i enjoy fiddling around  
it's cheap entertainment  
it is  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
i enjoy  
excuse me go ahead  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
takes a lot of room  
it sure does  
i made mistake one year and planted some cantaloupe  
my goodness   what a mistake that was  
they do  
well it was very good  
it just takes up you know like you say a lot of your garden area  
it's the first and only time i've done that  
we don't do anything exotic  
we just do oh   tomatoes bell peppers   radishes and turnips i mean not turnips carrots beets and things like that  
my wife used to plant a few snow peas  
i don't really care for snow peas  
well she just plants a few for herself  
yeah  
did you really  
oh i see  
okay  
we don't start anything indoors  
we   just wait until you know the weather warm enough to stick it in the ground  
probably so  
yeah  
you can get a head start on it  
i guess it it   might would  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well it will make it will make them taste better i'm sure  
sure  
you got to inspect it  
yeah  
sure  
sure  
yeah  
no  
i  
this is the first home we've lived in we've had a sprinkler system  
and boy it is really nice  
it sure beats dragging hoses around  
that's right  
that's right  
it's really nice  
uh_huh  
i'll have to admit i don't i do my own yard  
i i really don't enjoy doing that  
i enjoy having a nice looking yard  
i just don't enjoy the work   that it takes to get it done  
i had a lawn service to do my yard for me   during the real hot summer months you know until i retired  
and now i i've lost my excuse for that so i have to  
for the last couple of years i've done it myself  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it is kind of expensive  
it is  
of course the chemicals themselves when you buy them they're expensive too  
that's right  
if i have a problem discipline you know i think  
now boy i really need to get out you know and apply something you know  
and i screw around and don't do it or wait too long or something  
that's right  
that's right  
i'm i'm kind of bad about that  
i enjoyed having a lawn service  
but now i have the time  
and i really can't i really you know don't   want to spend the money for it  
yeah  
that's right  
i'm not limited to   just mowing it on saturday morning you know  
i can do it on most any day of the week  
uh_huh  
that's right  
yeah  
yeah  
that's coming up here pretty soon  
is it this weekend  
it's pretty soon  
yeah  
i believe it is too  
well  
uh not a whole lot uh  
i i don't use i i seldom use anything [harsher] than seven dust you know  
i don't really like to put a lot chemicals on it  
but then   again i don't want the bugs eating it [upping] either  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
absolutely  
they really go through it  
they really do  
yeah  
you know [cutworms] will do the same thing to your tomato vines too  
boy they'll strip  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i did something a little bit different this year that i haven't done before  
i've got  
my garden is [shaped] that i can  
it's kind like this uh box shape  
so i got four pieces of two by twelve and joined them together and just made a box   and put in a whole bunch like eight hundred pounds of [topsoil] and manure  
and you know various other things   raised it up  
and i'm hoping especially with those big tall sides on there it that maybe i won't have oh i'll have less of a bug problem  
at least they they'll have a hard time crawling up the thing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
you you have to work on  
you   really do  
that's right  
when we had our pool done i had them to leave some extra loam you know for my garden  
so i had i had a lot of loam out there to start with  
i just turned it all up and mixed it all up together   with  
no  
i don't  
i did it by hand  
uh_huh  
it wasn't too much of a job   really  
like i say it's just  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it would be handy  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it might be handy  
they're pretty neat little  
i've never seen one  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
that would be neat  
sure  
we've had a garden gosh for years and years and years   of some size you know  
i can't remember a year when we didn't have one of some kind  
uh got  
you know tomatoes that are starting to bloom  
and uh i've got carrots i yes i've got a few carrots up  
and i've got some radishes up  
and as a matter of fact i've already done a second row of radishes  
and uh the green onions are coming along  
snow  
excuse me  
yes  
i've  
for the first time we planted them this year  
yeah  
we tried to find them last year  
we screwed around and waited too long  
and i couldn't find a nursery that had any of them left  
but we've got some this year  
snow peas are up  
and uh my wife does uh a small [herb] garden on the side  
they're up and doing fine  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's kind of a   let down  
oh i bet  
they were  
that's right  
we use a lot  
we sure do  
yeah  
one nice thing with onions and and bell peppers at least you can chop them and freeze them if you have   you know too many  
yeah  
uh_huh  
we did that too  
uh_huh  
sure  
makes uh   makes a colorful salad too  
uh_huh  
we planted some yellow peppers this year  
we've tried it   before  
and nope  
we haven't had much luck with it we're going to try it again this year  
they have some little buds on them hopefully they'll do something  
yeah  
we enjoy [fooling] around with it  
beets  
yeah  
we've got some beets  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've never done potato  
we used to do it at home when i was a kid   had a huge garden  
uh_huh  
it takes a yeah it does take some space  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that will be neat  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that will be neat  
yeah  
absolutely  
they're expensive  
i don't know unless it   labor intensive or something  
i really   don't know  
that will be interesting  
yeah  
sure  
yeah  
that's interesting  
well i'll let you go it's  
well i do it all  
uh yes  
i i try to grow uh uh a vegetable garden  
and  
yeah  
i have two plots  
one's ten by ten  
and one's like fifteen by four  
it's a long skinny one  
and  
oh i see  
yeah  
i see  
right  
right  
yeah  
it's nice to get out in the open air  
and especially when the weather's not too hot or   not raining or whatever  
but uh   sometimes i   i said i sometimes i wish i had more space   you know  
i grow a lot of things a lot of food  
and sometimes i i want to plant something there's not enough room to plant   some of those things like uh you know the things that vine like uh cucumbers   or uh squash or something   like that   plant one of those  
and it takes up your whole space  
yeah  
yeah  
they they just run all over   the place don't they  
right  
right  
the basics  
right  
yeah  
that's what we do too  
right  
peas  
i i got a few peas out my garden a couple of days ago  
the first one they started them indoors this time  
i read it  
and so i  
yeah  
i uh i guess you can get an earlier harvest by doing that  
but uh sure is a heck of a lot of work  
because you got to   watch them every day   and keep them watered  
and i i don't think i'll do it again  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i enjoy it  
i come home from work  
and and i usually say hello to wife and kids   and then go out and fiddle you know just walk around the yard and   inspect it  
and the kids want to swing  
and i push them on swing  
and i i mow my own lawn  
and i do i don't have a sprinkler system  
i i don't enjoy watering  
especially  
oh how  
oh  
yeah  
you can have it come on just early in the morning   and and off by the you know by the time you're up and about  
yeah  
i i usually get it started for my wife  
and i and she moves it around ever other day  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
sometimes i wish i could get one of these uh chemical services to come   out and spray for weeds   and fertilize   and all that and take that one step out of  
but uh they want too much money  
yeah  
right  
right  
but it's still be quite a bit cheaper to do it yourself  
right  
and the weed come up  
and all of a sudden you've got to do something else  
yeah  
well if you   enjoy it too   you know you you can get out in the morning when before it gets hot and   and do it and stuff   when you only have to  
right  
when the days start getting a little longer   you know you can i can start doing it in the evening after work  
when they when they switch to   switch  
when we get an hour more  
when they [rollback] an hour  
i don't know  
i really don't know  
it just seems like i here it on the news the day before  
and uh i i think it's coming up here soon  
yeah  
yeah  
are you having any trouble with bugs in in your garden  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i i  
it seems like they come in [spurts]  
one year i didn't put anything on  
and i didn't have any problems  
next year i was planting some broccoli and and some of those they're called cabbage   cabbage [loppers]   or whatever  
they were just covered with them  
i mean i went up  
i didn't go out there for about three days you know   because i and i went out there one day and the plant was nothing left but a stem  
they [devoured] it that quickly  
and they they   have a you a good appetite  
and they would you know  
i i picked off like twenty of them  
and  

yeah  
they got that uh what is that safer soap uh   b t spray this   year  
and i've been watching them every day  
and i've and i haven't seen any signs yet  
so if i see any signs i'm going to spray them  
and uh  
right  
well the good stuff  
right  
right  
yeah  
my backyard is uh is [sloping]  
so i built a box up you know   had to build the one the low side up  
and uh i had sandy loam hauled in  
i had a dump truck come and dump it  
on my driveway i guess that's what they do  
and then   i had to wheel [barrow] it in  
but uh you know you can improve your own soil there  
but the texas soil isn't the greatest   gardening soil  
right  
and you know if i i didn't wait five years for it to be good enough grow  
you know what i mean  
uh_huh  
do you have do you have a [rotor] tiller  
small enough  
you have a  
just do it by hand  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i'd like to get one of these little small ones   that you see in all these gardening magazines  
and it weighs twenty pounds or   something like that  
my neighbor across the street has one  
he always uses it to [dethatch] his lawn  
i see him out there  
and i guess it has a thatcher attachment to it  
yeah  
yeah  
i have a friend who has one  
and and he lets me you know no problem borrowing if it's   just a hassle when you know   to go up  
and it's a fairly large one to   [heave] it up into the back of the van   bring it home and   check it back and just grab it you know if i just go to my garage and grab it  
that would be nice  
uh_huh  
what have you got growing right now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
okay  
what kind  
what kind of onions do you grow  
do you grow those those ten fifteen y  
oh they they are the best  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh those  
i see  
yeah  
i uh  
those onions i think we we planted like twice as much this year because you know we got onions  
and they lasted from you know about when you harvest them about a month from now or so   or six weeks   from now   until until like october  
and uh we really missed them when they were gone   because the ones from the grocery store just can't   compare  
she made these onion rings that were so good  
and and   and uh you don't realize how many dishes you put onions in   that it's an [ingredient]  
and and it was just like everything you put it into tasted so much better  
right  
right  
we froze a lot of peppers  
we let some turn red  
and some we do green  
and then my wife puts them on pizzas   and and chops them up in recipes   and things like that  
oh yeah  
put them in salad  
yeah  
you're you're making me hungry here  
oh  
yellow peppers huh  
yeah  
sounds like you have a real good garden  
just let me see what i got  
i got the peas  
and i've got some broccoli uh onions some some radishes and uh uh beets  
uh and i planted potatoes too  
oh the potato  
they were they're delicious  
but they  
you don't get seem to get that much for the space  
they they do  
some [beet] uh potatoes  
and i've got some tomatoes still growing   in in containers  
i got to wait for a place to to to free up  
uh our our kids love pickles  
and we all love pickles  
so we're going to try to grow our own pickles this year  
we've got some good um um hybrid [burpee] uh   uh [pickler] cucumbers  
and we're going to try to see if we can pickle our own  
and   so because have you seen how much pickles cost in the store  
i know it  
i said why are they so expensive they're just a bunch of little cucumbers you know  
i guess  
but we're going to try that   and see how that works  
an experiment  
i'd like to try you know just try something new   every year that   i haven't tried before  
and  
well  
what kind of lawn and garden work do you do  
oh does it really  
i didn't know that  
did um you've been working on it for three years  
really  
what have you done  
uh_huh  
you know i can barely hear you  
yeah  
a little bit yeah  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
how did you get rid of them  
pardon  
oh dursban two  
yeah  
dursban will get rid of just about anything i think  
but um so you haven't had a problem with that since  
yeah  
what else did it did it kill anything else it wasn't supposed to  
not really  
yeah  
really  
well that's pretty wild  
yeah  
we used it for fleas  
we had fleas in our yard real bad last year  
and we did that um  
i just i'm not  
basically i like to mow the lawn believe it or not  
but i sometimes have problems starting the mower  
so a lot of times i won't get out and do it  
but my husband basically does most of it  
and he does the you know edging and all that kind of thing  
and we're renting  
and so we don't really put a lot of money into the uh you know like  
this lawn could probably stand a couple of loads of dirt and some saint augustine  
we just we have winter rye out back  
and we have  
i don't even know what it is out front  
but um we this is the first house we've ever lived in  
and we're just not real into the lawn probably because we're renting i guess huh  
so it anyway  
right  
uh_huh  
we were getting  
what  
oh really  
hm i wonder why it does  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
really  
well i'll have to remember that because hopefully we won't have them this year  
but we have a cat that comes in and out  
and the cat was getting um fleas and stuff and bringing them in the house  
so we had a real problem last year with fleas  
and uh it was quite a drag because um we got them in our house  
and we're christians  
and we prayed that we could get rid of these fleas  
and we got rid of them believe it or not with smoke bombs which is just about impossible to do  
but we did  
and so we don't want them back this year you know  
so i'll remember that if we see it's a problem in the yard  
we're almost  
they were so bad last year even ticks  
i don't know  
we've had ticks before a lot  
and we've had to get out and treat our lawn for that  
i think we used dursban for the we used dursban and diazinon and get out there and do what you do with that thing you know and spread it all out everywhere  
but that's about the extent of our lawn care  
so i don't know  
do you enjoy doing it  
yeah  
well that's well that's funny  
yeah  
not everybody enjoys it though  
everybody has a different thing  
i kind of enjoy it  
and my husband doesn't  
i kind of have to  
sometimes i'm too busy to get out there and do it  
and he you know he doesn't really enjoy doing it  
but he'll do it  
and he doesn't gripe about it or anything  
but you know i'm kind of like you  
and he's kind of like your wife  
i mean you know in that he doesn't really enjoy it  
but i would like to have a garden you know  
that's my thing  
but right now where we're living we have the trees where their uh roots are at the top of the ground everywhere over the ground  
i don't know what kind of trees they are  
but you can't have a garden  
you can't till it  
or it'll it'll tear up a nice tiller  
so we're going to wait until we move  
we don't have a lot of sun either because it's big trees back there  
so we're going to wait  
and when we move that's one of our priorities is to get a house where we can have a uh garden  
and so i'd like to do that  
i have a feeling i'll be out there all the time taking care of that  
but that's our next thing  
do you have a garden  
uh_huh  
oh are you kidding  
that sounds fun  
where do you all live  
oh really  

southwest where  
oh really  
oh because we're in dallas  
i guess i assumed you were here  
well that's neat  
and um yeah  
that's what we want  
we have a  
yeah  
that's really what we want  
but we just haven't been able to do that yet  
so one day we'll be able to do it  
and i'm excited about it  
and then i don't know anything about it  
i have to learn  
and then you'll have to give me a call on gardening  
what do you do in your garden  
and i'll go nothing  
what should i do  
but anyway i guess that's about it though  
it sounds like we've covered all the bases  
so i guess we'll let you go  
and um do you have anything else you wanted to say  
okay  
i know you too  
i hope you have a nice day  
and   we'll talk to you later  
bye  
well right now the place where i'm living the yard was basically neglected for about the last twenty five years  
so i've been trying to rebuild and [reestablish] the entire lawn  
and after three years of working at it i've i've been amazed at just what a little bit of doing help out things to the lawn has really brought it back  
instead of mowing in the same direction every time changing one day you'll or one time you'll cut it cut the lawn the long way then you'll go the opposite way instead of going [lengthways] you go [width]  
and it helps the grass come back  
for three years  
killing lots of fire ants  
i was firmly convinced the entire   front yard was nothing but one gigantic [ant] mound  
because it was like you could you couldn't even stand still out there  
is this better  
it was like you'd go out in the yard to water something you'd just be standing still  
and the ants would start crawling up your legs  
it's like i'm not standing in a mound though  
uh dursban two  
a chemical called dursban two  
it's a crystal  
um not bad  
every   once in a while you'll have a mound pop up  
but that's to be expected  
um  
as far as i can tell it hasn't killed anything it wasn't supposed to  
even the area of the grass that was underneath and around the [mounds]   it didn't kill it  
well  
you said you had problems with fleas last year in the yard  
uh i found one thing that it's kind of a weird thing to say to put out on the lawn  
but   every time i've done it it's it it drives the fleas completely out of the area  
[powdered] sulphur  
you you don't have to put a whole lot out  
just if you've got a broadcast spreader   i think it comes in a forty pound bag  
and it's real fine like flour  
and you just   go out and do the entire yard  
and you i mean you don't have to put [clumps] of it  
just very lightly cover the entire yard  
oh i love it  
my wife can't understand  
it'd be a hundred degrees outside i'll be out there  
but it's too hot to be working in the yard  
i'm under the trees  
i'm having fun  
and i'm stopping to drink water  
so what's the problem  
i've got the  
this is the neat thing about the place we ended up at   sitting on about a two acre lot now  
and half of it's  
the back half is my garden  
uh in missouri city  
southwest southwest side of houston  
southwest houston  
uh no  
it's just   i've had an very enjoyable conversation with you  
okay  
you too  
okay  
bye  
all right  
do you do garden work  
uh_huh  
oh where do you go to college  
where's that  
oh okay  
yes  
well do you you know do you do gardening at home  
oh my goodness  
hm  
yeah  
well i guess you glad you got to go to college so you'd get some rest  
yeah  
i had a whole bunch of flowers and things  
well i don't have as many now  
we lived in the country   for a long time  
and i had a whole bunch  
but now i work and i live in the city so that sort a kind of hung it up  
i have a few flowers but most of mine are like in barrels and things like that  
and this year i decided that  
well my husband made a little garden out there with some tomatoes and stuff in it  
but i decided that i don't like grass  
i don't like to have to have to pull grass  
so i decided that i would plant me a tomato plant in a flower pot   and see how it worked  
and mine looks real good  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
i had never thought about that  
i could probably plant one and bring it in and just like i bring my plants in every year  
that'd be neat  
well i got a patio  
and i tried to talk my husband into just buying a whole bunch of pots   and planting them all in it you know because that's favorite thing is tomatoes   to grow  
and so um but he said no  
he was going to plant in the earth you know like he always has  
because he's always had a garden out in the country  
and i think he kind of misses it a little bit you know since we moved to the city  
but um i went ahead and planted one and mine looks better than his  
it does  
and then i like um  
you know what day lilies are  
day lilies  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
huh_uh  
these look like a lily  
they look like a a well they really look like an orchid when they come out  
uh_huh  
that what the look like  
but they only bloom for one day  
they'll um  
you'll have a bud the evening before  
and then the next morning as soon as the sun hits it it it starts opening up  
and then when it gets dark it [closes]  
and that's it  
it only blooms for one day  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but um they look like [orchids] is what they look like  
but they look like different color ones  
like i have uh yellow ones  
and i have red ones  
and   i have purple ones  
and then they have like you know the real [velvety] looking stuff inside  
it looks just like [orchids] in different colors  
that's what they look like  
they are they're beautiful  
uh i have a friend when i lived out in the country  
and she had belonged to this kind of society that like every year you know or every so many months they would send you different bulbs that they came out with  
and i mean they were real expensive  
they were like well  
the most expensive one that she gave me a bulb for was like thirty two fifty for one bulb  
so what she would do is she would plant them and they [multiplied]  
so the next year when she you know [weeded] them out   so they wouldn't be as thick then she'd give me some of the bulbs  
and i mean i have some of the most beautiful day lilies that you've ever seen  
so when we decided to move it was really funny because like i said i had a whole bunch of different kinds of things  
and i kept saying well i want to take a few of these and i want to take these and i want to take these  
my husband finally said look are we going to take the grass  
can we leave the grass  
i said yes we may leave that  
and we had a tree that was like seventeen foot tall or something like that that he said no no i am not taking the tree  
you know i mean every time we went outside he'd look at something that was [humongous] you know  
no  
we're not taking that  
but the last day he said can't we leave the grass  
and i said yeah  
i think we will leave that  
but i brought  
my kids when they were little they had given me some azaleas   so i brought all my [azalea] bushes  
and you know i brought i brought as much as i could bring   without you know really tearing up their place  
but just like um you know  
the people that bought ours bought the place but um i knew that they would you know  
if i left like one bulb of each one of them by this year they'd have ten bulbs of each one of them  
so it wasn't like it was going to be this big raw place or something you know  
it would cover it right up  
but i just couldn't see it you know going off and leaving everything like that  
because this house i really liked it and everything but the yard was a lot to be desired  
oh   there was nothing  
these people  
we have one ugly pine tree  
i mean and it is ugly  
i even tried making it look nicer you know  
i tied the yellow ribbon around it  
and it was so ugly  
oh it did not help let me tell you  
i took it off and put it on my door  
i did not want to call attention  
i mean it was terrible  
so really the plants that i brought over and put out here are just about all  
i don't do any of the mowing or you know edging and all that  
my husband does all that stuff  
but that's because i'm allergic to the grass  
really  
now i like to go to the beach where the sand is  
because then it doesn't make me ill  
yeah  
i used to until it i got so allergic to it  
i don't know if it's all well  
i went and had some tests run and just about all the kinds i was allergic to  
but it's not as bad here  
like saint augustine i think is what we have  
and it's not as bad as it was when we were out in the country  
but out in the country i mean  
if i went outside while he was mowing the grass i was going to have a gigantic attack  
so um i get shots for it now too  
that helps a whole bunch  
but one good thing about it see i don't have to mow the grass  
or  
i mean that's really nice  
well the first thing we always plant is tomatoes  
every year  
i don't care if we don't have anything else  
we're going to have tomatoes  
and then we plant cucumbers  
and  
oh yeah  
really  
it must be the uh  
now that's i mean that's something that grows like a weed here  
i mean it grows like a weed  
we have to allow extra room for those because you know i mean extra space   between the rows and all  
yes  
but i mean we usually get  
if we plant for every one plant we probably get fifty to sixty cucumbers off of it   i mean just pulling them as fast as you can  
we usually give them to everybody  
anybody that wants a [cucumber] can have it  
but we tried it too where you run it up a fence  
and um we had some weird cucumbers because they grew inside the fence  
i mean like the little thing would be half on one side and half on the other  
i mean it was  
but they're so heavy you know  
they get so heavy they kind of weigh it down  
but i mean cucumbers here grow like crazy  
of course it's real hot here too  
yeah  
yeah  
now if we have any like the birds will pick or something you know  
and some of the seeds drop  
have you ever had them just come up in different places  
i know we do that too you know  
and at the first year  
because i was from the city when we got married  
and the first year that we planted i couldn't figure out i mean the  
well the first year after   i mean we planted them  
but the first year you know after we'd had a crop   all these little things like  
we had cucumbers coming up you know in the middle of our okra  
and i thought how did this get here  
i know i didn't put that seed there  
and it was weird but the birds had you know evidently just deposited them for us  
uh_huh  
as little as possible  
i'm a college student  
so if i do any garden work it's only when i go home in the summer  
it's about two hours north of pittsburgh  
yes  
yeah  
we go home  
well we have a large family  
there's twelve kids in my family  
so like almost all our vegetables and everything is from the garden  
so we have a pretty good size garden  
but we have like a lot  
like my mom likes flowers so we have a lot of flowers too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
you know i've seen a lot of people that do that  
i've seen you know like elderly people   that really can't get out too much sometimes  
like we  
i have a great aunt that lives in a  
it's just like uh a high rise for elderly people  
and you know she does her own thing and everything  
but she has  
it's like a little apartment building  
and she has a tomato plant year round  
because she you know  
they keep it warm with for all the older people  
and she keeps it year round  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
pardon me  
are they well  
do they just come out in the morning then go  
but we call them morning glories up here  
oh really  
oh  
and then it's done completely done  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh really pretty  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
take the whole grass the whole yard  
that'd be funny  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh that'd be awful  
i love going out in the summer in the grass  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and um well even up here at school you know it gets hot and we have the windows open  
well they mow the grass up here sometimes six o'clock in the morning  
and just to smell the grass it's just  
i just love the smell of freshly cut grass  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you said that you had a garden  
what all things do you plant in it  
or do you like to plant in it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do your cucumbers come good  
really  
sometimes when my dad has like  
that's the one thing no one is allowed to touch except my dad  
he takes care of all the cucumbers  
because he said the vines are just so  
at our house as soon as you touch a vine it's like it completely dies  
uh_huh  
sometimes we have really good luck with them  
but then there'll be like maybe two years in a row that we can't get anything  
oh wow  
yeah  
because they take up a lot  
holy smoke  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
wow  
well see tomatoes grow like crazy at our house  
like we have a section of tomatoes  
and we put the tomatoes there every year in the same section  
and i swear we get tomatoes six rows up  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well sometimes too when we take out our garbage  
and we usually you know we just dump it in the middle of the garden you know after your [garden's] basically done  
and we're finding out  
like we have peach trees in the middle of our garden now because we took peach seeds and dump them there whenever the garden  
like in the fall  
now we have peach trees coming up  
okay  
we're official now  
yeah  
oh okay  
oh yeah  
oh you're you're you're not the so called  
you need a house i guess to go through all of that  
i have had a couple of houses  
and uh   the only recommendation i would have for someone who hasn't [gardened] is uh one get a couple of good books of books of course  
and usually they have talk shows  
here in dallas   they have two great uh talk shows that go through everything that will grow here which is the opposite probably of what would grow up where you are  
and so uh   in fact you you could easily do that now listen to turn on a talk show up there   and see if there there's got to be some gardening folks   on the radio that says when to put your grass in and and what kind of grass to grow up in virginia and everything  
so i uh  
for someone who doesn't garden i'd say that that's my biggest recommendation is to  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i like it a lot uh   uh  
it's a lot of work  
i'm an engineer  
i'm i'm with t i  
you  
are you with t i up there  
or  
okay  
uh where was oh  
yeah  
no  
i i like it  
i uh i always know that why i'm not a farmer when i garden though  
i mean it is dog work  
and it is tough  
i have a lot of trees down here uh  
the part i don't like i guess would be from december through february where you have to rake leaves   forever it seems like  
and the wind blows all the leaves on from your neighbor after you rake yours  
so   other than that you know those three months when it's pure dog work   uh the rest of it's very enjoyable just going through the experiences of of putting little plants in or whatever  
i i haven't had to plant any trees because i've got so many  
but uh   uh but i do listen to that talk show  
there there is some great people from texas a and m  
i don't know  
maybe you've heard of a and m down here  
but there's some great uh folks uh   that have been well trained and again uh to to uh recommend gardening for this area  
yeah  
you probably have rye grass up there  
we grow bermuda and saint augustine here  
right  
yeah  
see you would have to learn that though  
see  
um  
do you have much luck in the winter  
or they're they're freeze it freeze out because the roots are all in the winter uh  
or do you have to start all over every year  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
in the same pot  
that's amazing  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i grow a few things in pots  
but we have to bring them in here   in the winter because usually uh if it's not below the ground so you can [insulate] the roots from freezing   you know the pots will will die  
everything in a pot will die  
so you can bring them  
well we do bring stuff in the garage and everything  
but uh it's quite time consuming by the way  
i don't know how close you are to getting a house or anything  
but it's quite uh  
but i would definitely do it  
i'm all for doing everything  
whether  
whatever subject you pick do it the knowledgeable way  
don't go out there and start digging holes uh  
get some books of whether it be pennsylvania or virginia   as as well as  
not your neighbors of course they usually know nothing  
but   listen to still  
then there's always a gardening part of the newspaper   or communications as well as i bet there's a talk show up there right now that you if you turn the dial around   you'll  
on saturday  
this is saturday  
that  
you'll find someone probably in the morning i don't know   discussing you know what we do up in virginia to get something growing  
you probably don't have to do much over there  
the soil's probably so good  
our soil's not very good down here  
we're  
i guess in the ice age it it it's pushed a lot of uh limestone and everything   to some parts of dallas you just can dig a foot down and you hit solid limestone you know  
so uh i think all the trees that are here now were planted kind of like the johnny [appleseed] type trees where people have come from  
i'm sure the indians were here there was nothing growing in this part of dallas  
it's so [scrubby]   uh  
and i think that we even got our famous hundred year old pecan trees from alabama and all that too  
we we call them native pecan trees  
but they grow wild here  
they're eating pecans though  
pecans are probably not taken from virginia  
they're probably only in the south   for pecan pie and all that  
it's what they call pecan pecan pie up there in the east  
from pennsylvania and new jersey  
i'm from new jersey originally  
yeah  
i've worked on that with a little chewing gum which i shouldn't do uh  
go ahead  
you how many times have you called by the way  
or how many times have you been called  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
today  
that's what i'm saying  
today i was i got to laugh because i tried it this morning  
and i thought everybody was gardening  
i thought  
well no  
no  
this is a great subject because they're out there gardening you know  
i didn't tell you what our weather is like  
it is beautiful here   today  
it's not quite that hot  
yeah  
we've had a real nice mild spring  
you might have seen if you've seen the news today about all the tornados here that were   north of us  
uh i don't know if you get c n n  
i don't get c n n  
but it's here at work  
in fact i'm at work today believe it or not  
but uh they have t v in the break areas  
and there was some heavy tornados uh i guess in kansas  
quite a few people were killed  
you'll see that on the evening news  
uh  
tornados uh which is not the right subject  
but uh they blow through here all in the spring  
i guess it's related somewhat to the weather you know   and and the plants and all that that uh  
sometimes they do essentially nothing  
and the weather men yesterday were all alert  
say hey there's something really terrible going to happen  
and they they sure were right  
but it wasn't in texas  
it was   north of us  
yeah  
look at the news tonight  
they'll they'll   they claim thirty odd people were killed up in kansas city kansas  
anyway back on planting  
uh it is very interesting uh subject  
uh when you when did you get a house uh  
your your trees grow up so well up there  
but i'm sure you have plenty of trees  
that that is a key thing for shade   and keeping your bills down uh  
i guess you have mostly pine trees  
but where in virginia are you all  
uh_huh  
oh do you have the cherry blossoms there in there or not  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
azaleas grow all over  
we grow those here too  
although again we have to prepare the soil  
you probably have nice big pine  
you probably have all kinds of trees the oaks and everything  
that's one thing i noticed there  
uh_huh  
have you ever been down here  
okay  
it's interesting country  
it is wide open uh and flat  
uh and again as i said i think the when the indians were here there there weren't any trees  
but the the civilization has brought all kinds of experiments with all kinds of trees  
and a lot of them have done well  
uh they do have some pine forest areas in in in east texas   where you have native pine trees  
but here in dallas it's i think they all were planted by the classical johnny [appleseed] and johnny [pecanseed] whatever you would call it you know  
there's a tremendous amount of pecan trees   that we use for you know uh for eating  
i think they thought that was going to be a great boom crop uh hundred and fifty years ago because they are all over the place   in the south  
what else  
i don't have any say  
i i  
the subjects are usually pretty interesting  
i i'm i'm of course i'm a t i  
so i'm hoping this works  
t i is very good uh has done a lot of experiments in the speech uh   speech uh synthesis synthesis  
can't say it  
and they've come out with some new products  
in fact this week they came out with some new math uh  
you might see them in your advertisements uh  
new math uh  
speak and math uh devices  
they they have had speak and spell and all that for years  
but they've come out with some different ones   this past week  
and uh my wife and everyone  
what what are they going to accomplish out of all this  
and i said well you're not going to have to type on the computer one day  
you're just going to have to talk to it   you know  
so you you  
it's going to be much faster of course you know  
the classical thing for the handicapped too person who can't type very fast  
or  
like i can of course  
not that i can type very fast either  
but uh  
yeah  
um yeah  
yeah  
it's um it's very hot  
in fact i've been cleaning because i live in an apartment  
so i can't do very much gardening other than balcony gardening   um you know  
i have the little flower boxes with um a a lot of different flowers  
and i do enjoy plants  
but i don't have a yard or anything that i can do gardening really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well the   uh_huh  
yes  
but  
uh_huh  
so you enjoy gardening  
uh_huh  
no  
no  
i'm with a defense contractor  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um yeah  
i'm sure it is you know different in the different areas  
um i'm originally from pennsylvania  
and i do go home on weekends during the summer and uh and uh mow my mother's grass and different things like that  
oh i would have no idea  
no idea whatsoever  
like i said i'm just a balcony kind of gardener with my little flowers and my flower boxes and my herbs on   my window [sill]  
and  
yeah  
i have to start all over every year  
well except i do have some um some day lilies that   um you know i don't do anything with  
and they seem to come back year after year  
and i leave them on my balcony even in   in the snow and the winter you know   in the ice everything because here you know not as severe as the snow is in pennsylvania  
but here we still do get some snow and ice and   things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i agree with that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
wow uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
i'm  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh you don't sound like it  
uh_huh  
um i've been called a lot  
at the times though it's been not very appropriate  
i guess that i haven't been able to actually participate  
i've participated probably in about maybe i don't know seven calls  
and you know i've called a couple of times  
but most of the time i notice that um you know it takes forever to get a call through  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's like eighty five degrees here  
no  
i haven't  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh my uh_huh  
i'll have to make sure i catch that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'll have to make sure i catch that  
uh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um right now the district  
washington  
um in [fairfax] virginia  
it's fifteen miles west of washington d c  
yeah  
there's there's a few  
not you know nearly as many as what's actually in the district  
but um they're definitely enjoyable  
right now i know the azaleas and everything are out are beautiful  
uh_huh  
yeah  
there there there is a vast variety here of you know trees  
like if i look out my window right now i can see you know couple of pine trees some oak trees  
yeah  
um no  
actually i haven't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um well i guess that i really don't know that much  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but then what about people that um  
i i i personally work with someone that that is [deaf] and cannot speak  
she can speak  
but she can't speak very clearly  
and she in fact is a data entry person  
i mean she types away all day  
okay  
uh we're going to talk about our lawn and garden chores  
do you have either one  
do you  
oh really  
so do i  
i would  
i had rather be outside than than inside any day  
do you work during the week uh outside the home  
uh_huh  
yes  
or you sneak out in the morning after daylight savings time starts and with your cup of coffee and see if it has grown overnight  
well i unfortunately am not gardening this year  
i love gardening  
in fact i was prevented at like no about thirty years ago with a life membership uh from the richmond virginia counsel of garden clubs  
and it wasn't because i was so good  
but i organized a very large garden club  
but i still have uh  
it well it's always something that seems so odd to me  
but uh  
yes  
it has really nothing to do with uh actual gardening or flower [arranging] or anything like that  
it was just that i happened to organize this group   that was about seventy people  
that  
isn't  
yeah  
that that  
those numbers were were great  
but it  
yes  
well and actually i think that most women's garden clubs that i've been aware of in the past uh are only flowers  
what i would like  
we've spent the last twenty years in oklahoma  
just moved to to north carolina  
and uh we were originally of course from this area from virginia  
but uh in north uh  
in oklahoma it's the men's garden clubs that i would have wanted to join  
and you would have because they do all kinds of uh gardening and not just flowers like women do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
i think so too  
yes  
and and i have spent the last ten ten years being a [florist]  
being a [florist]  
it was nice  
it was [exhilarating] uh for many years  
uh many of those [tanned] until the last couple when uh we had such an economic [slowdown]  
yeah  
well tell me what's in your garden this year since i don't have one  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
do you have trouble with red spider on [marigolds]  
maybe it's  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you  
isn't that funny  
so is my favorite  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think it has the best flavor  
yes  
uh_huh  
well i like them in between  
i like them in between  
the flavor is better i think in between  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
my mother  
well and i know i love them  
well that's the yankee way  
but i think   that's like another vegetable  
i love them that way just just the thrill of  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
in fact i my mother who is eighty six years old canned over a hundred quarts of half runners last year  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  

yes  
and she tends to it herself  
uh_huh  
isn't that wonderful  
i think so too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
no  
wonderful  
bet you showed them  
oh  
no  
yes  
uh_huh  
great  
well we could we could really talk gardening a long time  
i'm enjoying hearing you so much  
um  
no  
october  
uh so yes  
recently seven months  
and it  
the weather is wonderful  
i love it  
it is just terrific  
you know rains a little too often  
oh i think so  
i have a little spinach  
bye bye  
well i don't do anything with the lawn really  
but i do gardening   both flowers and vegetable gardening  
um i  
we have enough property that we can have a little bit of a garden  
and that's fun  
well actually [wally's] had one even when we haven't had big yard because um we enjoy that  
we love fresh vegetables in the summer  
and it's just one of the things i enjoy doing  
so would i  
yes  
i do  
uh so i manage to fit in my gardening chores afterward  
i work for a school system  
so i'm able to do that um because i get home a little earlier  
and i can still do some some sorts of things  
but  
oh absolutely  
wow  
oh that's wonderful  
but that that's  
and you really feel you can accomplish something  
and to help other people too that's neat  
uh_huh  
right  
that's wonderful  
yeah  
yeah  
well i think it sounds good  
i've never belonged to a garden club because i've always been more interested in just doing what i can do on my own  
i've never had   the time really to get involved in the organized sort of format  
but i know people who do it and and enjoy it very much  
oh  
my word  
for heaven's sake  
well um there aren't men's gardening clubs in this area that i know of  
they're they're women  
but um and usually they're the tea type things you know where they have a little luncheon  
and they do their thing  
but um flowers are primarily the emphasis   um whereas i enjoy vegetable gardening almost more i do flowers sort of look pretty  
but i i really like to do the vegetables  
being what  
oh my  
well what a wonderful thing  
yes  
oh terrible  
yeah  
okay  
well uh the flowers i'm just  
in fact i was going to go out today to buy some plants so i could put them in  
i i always have [geraniums]  
and   um and then i have a shady area that i need to uh be concerned about not getting something that has to have sun  
so i've discovered that uh [impatiens] that tried and true is turns out to be about the best thing to use there along with [coleus]   because they uh look pretty and in my front garden uh  
but i like the [vinca] which is something i hadn't  
they look sort of like [impatiens]  
you know but they're not quite  
and they're better for the sun areas  
um and of course you know the mine are old theory ordinary flowers [marigolds] and and that sort of thing  
in my  
no  
i don't  
i don't know  
maybe this climate is a little better  
um but in the vegetable garden we grow um usually what  
our favorite is something called white half runner green beans  
now that's  
well you know why because i grew up in north carolina  
and that was my mother's um favorite bean  
she she always grows you know five different varieties  
but that's the kind that produces the best  
and and they're wonderful  
and i pick them when they're very young and have very little string and then just steam them a little bit  
my mother picks them when they're fat  
and she cooks them for an hour with some fat backs  
and they're good both ways  
yeah  
yeah  
oh in between the  
size wise  
yeah  
yeah  
well my mother doesn't think they have any flavor the way i cook them  
oh of course  
yeah  
it is  
they're two different vegetables that way  
uh_huh  
oh my gosh  
my does mother will be ninety this year  
and she lives in western north carolina  
and uh she would do that if if we didn't tell her that she'd better not  
but she doesn't have that big a garden  
but she has a bigger one than i do  
and i have four children you know  
so  
oh yes  
oh yes  
oh it is  
it's great  
it's it's really her joy  
and i suppose that's why i enjoy gardening   because you know growing up with it  
we also grow um yellow and green squash   um much to my children's chagrin  
and uh we grow a lot of tomatoes uh  
there's just no replacement for fresh grown tomatoes  
so we enjoy that  
um we grow  
i i have been trying to grow watermelon and cantaloupe and get [teased] by my family  
but i actually was successful for the last two years  
so  
i'm going to do it again  
that's right  
and we grow broccoli  
and i have been very uh happy about the new way of controlling the the uh worm that gets in broccoli um by using the [bacillus] [thuringiansis] which is the uh little  
well in fact that's what they use for [gypsy] [moth]  
i don't know if you have had that problem there or not  
but it's you know it's a problem that's that's moving south from from the new england area  
and they devastate the trees  
so they they spray the government uh sprays um two three times in the spring when the uh [caterpillars] are are coming along because what they do this this uh [bacillus] um the worms [ingest] it  
and it expands in their in their um [digestive] tract  
and they die  
so that's the same technique that is you know for any of the other uh little [varmints] that get in vegetables  
so it  
that's really very nice because it's a non toxic way of of handling the problem  
well it's nice hearing you talk  
and i'm i wish you uh good luck  
have you just recently moved to charlotte  
oh so well that's not very long  
yes  
oh that's great  
that's great  
well i hope you have a an opportunity to garden again  
oh well good  
bye bye  
well what kind of garden do you have  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you have a lawn  
oh yeah  
well um actually it  
we've sort of had an ideal spring  
and um the the peonies have been out for now about three weeks  
and the roses have been blooming for two weeks  
and the grass is uh this lush green  
and of course i've got lots of weeds in mine because   i don't use any poison either  
but um you know i just keep looking at  
and i say jeez you know this is the first year it's been so perfect  
but and my garden you know  
my tomatoes are two and a half feet tall  
the plants and  
you know i'm i'm going gee this can't you know  
we'll have a freeze  
well that's it  
last year i think it was you know my peonies were were [budding] in january  
and you know there was no way that was going to make it  
and sure enough you know we had really mild weather until   i think it was may or something  
and then you know everything just got hit hard  
so but yeah  
it it's interesting  
and i enjoy gardening  
my son does the mowing of the grass  
i don't think that's a pleasure for anybody the the mowing  
uh_huh  
oh they help you  
oh dear  
oh but that's nice you know  
i mean the peach tree is is a start  
and  
right  
what about tomatoes  
aren't they pretty hardy  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i would assume too  
i mean you've got three or four months you're talking about   of of bad weather  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
sounds like it would have been pretty  
oh sure  
sure  
well it sounds like you you've got your hands full  
and you know gardening isn't isn't high on the list  
but it's not off the list  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
maybe next year they'll do better  
okay  
well thanks  
it was nice talking to you too  
bye bye  
well we've tried having  
let me turn the t v off  
we've tried having a vegetable garden  
and i'm from chicago  
and the way that uh bugs and weeds grow down here is very different from chicago    
and we have tried several years in a row  
and we've given up between the fire ants the pill bugs the weeds the drought and a hundred and ten degree heat all summer  
and we just kind of uh decided to go with a few flowers and give up on the vegetable garden  
we had to put so much poison out on everything that we thought [who'd] want to eat that stuff  
you know so we have really been frustrated by our gardening attempts here  
and uh if you really water a lot you can do it  
but you know when you have to pay for water it really gets to be an annoyance to have to water constantly  
so right now we're just  
yeah  
we we just try to maintain the lawn and the shrubs right now and the trees  
we have a peach tree  
that's the extent of our um contributing to our food supply  
but that's nice to have  
but   yeah  
yeah  
so what do you do up there  
um  
oh wow  
yeah  
really  
gosh  
oh boy  
that sounds wonderful  
if you don't have a frost you'll be all right  
that's what i remember from living up north is that you'd get everything set and then you'd have a frost  
and half the stuff would get [frostbitten]  
and you'd have to  
wow  
uh_huh  
oh boy  
that's frustrating  
oh yeah  
my husband does that thank goodness because i that's not a pleasure for me  
i love gardens that are well tended  
and i just  
there's been a few different places i've lived where i've just  
i don't know whether it's little old ladies living there or what but you could just tell that they had a love uh a love affair with their gardens with beautiful wild flowers  
and just  
i love the host of colors that just keep coming all you know year long  
and uh i i was in england once  
and that's one thing that impressed me so much is no matter what size yard somebody had they had a beautiful garden in it  
you know it could be three feet by four feet or something  
so i do admire that but i haven't really put uh too much energy into it  
course we have two little kids that are two and three years old  
so that has put a [crimp] in my every activity other than diapers and laundry i'll tell you  

yeah  
that's really lovely  
i would love to have different fruit trees  
it's it's been wonderful to have the peaches  
they're just delicious  
and we we we have still have to spray some  
but we don't have to just [asphyxiate] [ourself] with the poison which is good  
because i just  
i can't see the point in doing that and eating anything out of it afterwards  
um we've tried them  
but again it's just like the sun [scorch]  
we've tried them in kind of halfway in the shade and halfway in the  
i mean it's just  
you really really   have to be prepared to water constantly during the summer  
people that have been successful out here have done this drip irrigation   and installed that  
and um that's really what makes the most sense  
because you don't have to use so much water  
and  
it really does the job  
but it's just amazing how hot and dry and for how long it gets out here  
and if you're not really committed to it  
i mean me i'm you know i'm real committed to it for about a week and then i forget about it for a week  
and then i go oh yeah i need to do something  
and by then it's burned up you know  
it's just too [distracting] right now with these little ones in our lives  
so maybe when i get older i'll find uh some joy in that  
yeah  
yeah  
it just gets so hot so fast here  
we don't have really a spring or a fall  
and it just uh immediately heats up  
so that's one thing i miss about living up north as i remember um you know the long springs and long falls and the cooler weather  
it was really nice  
we always had gardens when i was uh living in chicago  
in fact my mother once tore up our entire back yard   and redid it  
i'll never forget  
got my stepfather to put in uh a [waterfall] and a little pond in one corner  
i mean that was like the most energy invested in anything in the whole time i ever knew him  
they remodeled the entire back yard  
then they sold the house and got divorced  
so i don't know what that says about it all  
oh but she used to love to do stuff like that  
yeah  
it really was  
i enjoyed it there  
but maybe when the boys get a little older we'll do some more planting  
because they like to see things grow  
they've done a couple of little seed projects  
and so i think it would be fun for them  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yes  
they're both running around now  
yeah  
well it's very [therapeutic]  
i think really to get out there and dig in the dirt   you know  
they certainly enjoy that part of it  
it's just trying to keep anything  
i planted bulbs last uh fall on the side guard and when i went out there in the spring  
and the first day they came out the little one went and pulled all the flowers off  
and the flower petals were scattered all over the walk  
he thought what are these fun toys that mommy put out here with all these colors for me to play with  
at least he didn't eat them  
i mean i guess i could be thankful for that  
yeah  
really  
if they survive this year  
oh well good luck to you  
nice talking to you  
okay  
what you mean my voice  
oh no  
i am from kentucky   originally  
so  
uh_huh  
i know  
we are about to hit it in ten few minutes  
i figured i could make this call and get it over with  
we are going to mow and trim and   edge  
and that is all we have been doing all weekend  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh how many kids do you have  
okay  
what year i mean how old are they  
four and five  
goodness  
i have got a four year uh a four year old and a four month old and an eight year old stepdaughter  
well you do not have to tend to him  
oh you did  
okay  
it is over with  
he is gone  
if i can just [nuke] it i would do it  
but i do not  
i just  
it is like oh i will get out there and pull my weeds  
i do not have a real big front yard  
but i do have half of it is a flower bed   just about all by the porch  
because the porch is pretty big  
i live in town  
but just pulling all the weeds out of that just drives me nuts  
i do not like it  
and i just went out this weekend and bought me some plants and stuff  
and i just [plowed] through the whole nine yards  
got up everything  
there was some plants that are just spring [bloomers]  
and i  
the when the blooms died the leaves were just horrible looking  
so i just broke all them off  
it was a [hyacinth]  
have you ever seen those  
oh they are pretty in the spring  
but the leaves i do not like them  
you know once  
yeah  
it is a bulb  
no  
because i do like the i like the plant in the spring  
i love those pink flowers  
they are just pretty  
so i just cut the leaves off and transplant and put some other plants down because i want them to come back up next year  
yeah  
of hyacinths  
oh of everything  
oh they will  
huh  
okay  
now i have got some daffodils  
and everybody down here calls these flags uh the irises i guess uh  
that is what they call them down here  
they get uh just one bloom on the plant  
i do not i am not sure what they are called  
but i do not much  
well i think they are stopped blooming now in the spring  
it   has got  
oh they come in all different colors  
the blooms are on some of them is yellow purple white just all different colors  
well i mean per bulb  
you get one big flower that looks like a lily  
i do not know what they are called  
i have always called them  
well i do not know what i have called them  
but when i come down here everybody told me they are flags  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it is some type of lily  
i have got some in the backyard that bloomed blue which i would not would have liked those in the front because they match my porch and stuff better and then some on the side of the house with the dusty purple color with little purple spots that it it will [fade] into a solid purple  
green [spiky] leaves  
now it looks almost like a [hyacinth] only a a lot higher  
and it   is a bulb  
dutch irises  
uh_huh  
you know i i really do not know  
no  
they are they have they're died down i am sorry they are dead now  
they bloom in the spring  
yeah  
they bloomed in the spring  
right about the same time or after  
i would took i took and just mowed over them last year  
and uh we have been  
i i do not much care for them  
after the bloom dies they are not pretty  
and   to me it just looks like a bunch of leaves  
but i took them out of my front yard  
and i just threw them on the side intending to transplant them or throw them away or something   and forgot about them through the whole winter  
well i went out there this spring  
and they had took root right where they were on top of each other  
and they told me that they are the hardest things to you know   to kill  
but they are real easy to grow  
does that help  
i do not i am not sure what it is  
they said that they are irises  
it is some type of iris though  
but they call them flags up here or down here down here  
yeah  
i do not know what it is  
i am i am not on i am just getting into gardening this year  
uh we moved here a year ago  
yeah  
last spring  
we moved in here may this house may of last year  
so it was really too late to do much  
oh  
well that is  
well what kind of blue  
i am wanting   i want blue and purple and you know just different shades of that because my my house is gray  
and blue looks so pretty   against it  
i bought  
well i would like to have one that would bloom next year too  
that will come back up  
uh_huh  
i am looking for a pen  
i want to write this down because  
well that is where i went this year  
because i waited too late to really plant stuff  
but i did not know that these hyacinths  
like i said i do not know anything about plants  
i did not know the hyacinths were going to die  
yeah  
that is what i did with my plants  
i had bought these uh [colossians]   [celosias] or whatever  
and they will not grow down here  
okay  
perennial  
blue  
salvia  
okay  
i bought me oh i guess i just went and bought me just about nineteen dollars worth of little buds planted   uh already grown  
and it looks pretty good out there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
purple buddy  
purple buddy  
how do you spell that  
okay  
yes  
oh well  
well the topic today was gardening   and lawn care  
ooh  
yeah  
you know what  
it seems like we are doing it here forever  
we bought a a large house that was completely [unlandscaped]  
i mean   it it was probably was up to your shoulder in in [thistles]  
that was all that was there  
and we hired a professional [landscaper] to do it  
and i have since then probably ripped out half of what he has done because it has always been incorrectly planted  
or the plants do not make the winter time  
and so i am kind of at this point getting a little bit broke and deciding that what we are going to do is we are just going to struggle through the rest of this year   probably through the fall too and uh   rip up rip out all the rest of these [junipers] or anything that requires uh more care than i am willing to give the kids and replace it with hollies  
just two  
but they are just eighteen months apart so it seems like a lot more  
four and five  
uh_huh  
oh well i have a twenty six year old stepson  
and i do not know if that counts  
well i did for many years  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
it is over with  
uh back to gardening  
are you one of these uh howard [garrett] organic enthusiasts or a   neil sperry [nuke] the lawn with chemicals  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
all right  
now are you sure they are hyacinths  
because that is a bulb  
well you should of just ripped the whole thing out  
have you had  
is this the first year they have been up  
well let me tell you they do not come back very well at all  
maybe they will if up further north  
but down  
and you are not that much further north  
i have probably planted oh around here um maybe six hundred bulbs  
no  
i have probably   have done hyacinths  
but i have just learned from doing hyacinths that if you really like them what you do is you dig the bulbs up and then you throw them away after they are done blooming because they do not take the heat here  
and if they do come back next year they are going to look real [puny]  
yep  
about the only bloom bulb that repeats well in my area is the uh uh [daffodil] and some of the [narcissus] bulb  
they call them flags  
when does it   when does it bloom  
and what color  
and you only get one of them  
you know what i bet you they are  
and i am a pretty i am a pretty good gardener  
because i have killed a lot of things here  
and and i have planted a lot of them  
and and i work on a uh landscape committee for our neighborhood  
and our neighborhood is a planned development with i think it is seven hundred and fifty five families  
but we have about sixty acres that we have to plant  
i am going to bet you that is a lily because it is  
and i will get uh  
is it  
what color is is yours blooming  
and what does the [foliage] look like  
does it fit that  
oh  
oh oh  
oh i bet you those are i bet you what those things are uh is a dutch iris  
i bet you it is a dutch iris  
does it does it on its little on its on the flower does it have a beard on it at all any kind of [fuzzies]  
i am going to bet you that  
that has got to be blooming this time of year  
it has  
well i was   just going to correct myself  
because they would have bloomed pretty early  
well  
yeah  
right about after the daffodils  
okay  
i will bet you those are dutch iris  
uh_huh  
well  
yep  
well  
ooh  
well then it is not it is not a dutch iris then  
oh gosh  
huh  
well i am not so sure that texans know what what they have got  
did you just move down here  
um who who who who  
because i have got a flower i have got i have probably got do do do do i do not know how many square feet it is a big circular driveway  
the whole uh perimeter [bordering] the house is all in texas [wildflower] beds  
and   i am into that  
and it and it looks quite formal  
i mean it really does  
it looks   quite formal  
but it has been about three or four years of uh uh playing around with flowers to decide which ones actually grow here  
you want blue  
uh_huh  
ooh blue is hard you know  
do you want a perennial flower that will bloom all summer  
okay  
put in a perennial blue salvia  
now it is going to grow about um the plant itself will grow about eighteen inches tall  
and it will send out a flower [spike]  
you will see them blooming now  
it is a [wildflower] here  
but you can get them in the nursery  
yep  
well the you know nursery men will will sell you things here  
and they are they are kind of in a labor of love  
the other thing to do if you really like the hyacinths and i do is that before you plant those bulbs stick them in the refrigerator for five weeks or so to cool them  
yep  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
salvia  
uh_huh  
and now that will bloom all summer long  
and it will it but it [insists] on full sun  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i will tell you another plant that is purply  
it it is dark purply kind of a purply blue red  
it is really a pretty plant  
it is sold down here as purple buddy  
now it's not  
yeah  
it is not a perennial  
it is an annual  
but it will take the heat down here  
purple buddy  
its proper name is [gomphrena]  
g o m p h r e n a  
[gomphrena]  
and   is sold as purple buddy or sometimes sold as straw flower  
and they make uh-oh about a foot high plant  
and they send out this this [spike] that has this purple ball on the top of it  
but that purple ball  
okay  
we're going to talk about lawn and garden today  
okay  
um where do you work at  
or   do you you wish to discuss that  
oh okay  
yeah  
we're neighbors  
okay  
hi  
can you hang on just a minute  
thank you  
i have no idea  
he didn't broadcast  
thank you  
uh_huh  
i'm sorry  
go ahead  
oh i do all the time  
i do all the time  
i get a lot of good tips from him  
i have his book too  
uh_huh  
not in texas  
uh_huh  
well no  
i had a lawn service one year  
and i thought [phooey] i'm going to do it myself because i figured up the cost  
and i said huh_uh  
i can do it much cheaper and better  
and so what i did i switched to liquid  
and i do it with an [applicator] with my hose  
and it's so much easier than taking that lawn spreader and walking all over   the territory  
i was surprised how easy it was  
and i thought well i'm going to do this all the time  
so i found you know  
and i've got some problems with uh two trees in my front yard  
and i took them to a certified uh [nurseryman] the other day  
and do you know what he told me i needed to do  
which is  

it's just unreal  
he said i needed to pull every leave off the tree  
and the tree is fifteen feet high  
and it probably has about ten thousand leaves on it  
and he told me i needed to pull every leaf off and then spray it with this chemical that he said i should purchase  
and i thought uh_huh this is this is unreal  
this is unreal  
so uh i think i'll get my son in law to do that for me if he will  
yes  
it's a disease that it's got  
and i don't know   what happened to it uh  
and then it   it um  
well one is a maple  
one is um   a maple  
but i would much prefer  
i think it's not a native texan tree  
and uh the one that the ones that really do well are the ones that are on the city property  
and they don't   get any care  
and they're cedar elm  
and they're just beautiful  
so i mean it it's you know these things that you [pamper]  
some people have really a green thumb  
and you know   and um although i don't have too serious a problem  
but i don't know if it was from the the the late freezes that were or the early freezes we had that caused this tree damage  
and you know sperry said you know that's what happened to the crepe myrtles   the last two years that you we are looking at all the freeze damage from the prior two years  
so i kind of think that maybe that uh happened to these large trees that i have  
and i really hate to lose them  
but um that's one of the hazards i guess of uh having a a yard  
because i  
uh_huh  
right  
the quick growing  
yeah  
and they and he  
uh uh_huh  
can i pick your brain about how you got rid of those trees  
did  
are they still there  
did you cut them down at the at the ground level  
or did you pull them   up by the roots  
or how did you get rid of them  
because if i  
i i don't know how to get rid of these big trees because one has a [circumference] of about ten inches  
and  
oh  
uh  
uh_huh  
because i don't want   [stubs] in my lawn  
because   you still have to  
uh_huh  
the base  
to the ground  
uh_huh  
bore  
i see    
uh a stump killer  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and they get that saw  
and i think it's a some kind of a a screwing thing that just [rips] it right out  
right out  
yeah  
used those for uh mulch  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
a blessing in disguise  
i mean two fold purpose  
yeah  
lawn  
yes  
uh_huh  
yes  
i have a i have a self propelled uh snapper  
because i'm sitting on a hill  
and it uh   and it's very difficult to address  
well that's good  
they're very expensive  
oh [booey]  
yeah  
yeah  
they always try to give you a song and dance  
okay  
so  
right  
what   what  
uh  
no  
i i'm in uh well  
i live in uh richardson   texas  
and uh  
yeah  
and uh but grew up in uh iowa on a farm with a considerably different philosophy in terms of lawn and garden   work  
uh and uh  
yeah  
no  
so uh uh not not growing up familiar with here uh uh when i get a chance i listen to that neil sperry and do that  
and uh  
yeah  
uh  
yeah  
don't do any uh   any gardening in the sense of uh vegetable gardening  
but uh   tried some tried some different   flowers and and uh bushes and stuff   and uh uh have a have a lawn service  
there was one when   we when we bought the house  
and we just continued with them for a long time and then switched to a different one  
but in terms of the fertilizing and uh   weed control   mainly leave that up to them  
what about you  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well  
well good  
yeah  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
what what what kind of a  
is this some sort of a disease  
or is it a [pest]  
what   well what kind   what kind of trees are they  
huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's that's one thing that we we've had very poor luck with with is in in our yard is is trees  
but the uh what what trees were were there when we moved in   uh uh were had been put in by the [developer] when he built the house  
and he just put in whatever was cheapest that he could claim was a tree i think  
and uh figured up last night at  
there were seven different trees of of various kinds and sizes in the yard when we moved in  
and we got one left at this point  
but uh a couple of them we've lost to the weren't too good trees we've lost to wind uh uh  
three we three we've lost to to uh freezes between uh eighty three and uh and then uh a year ago we lost uh another one  
well  
yeah  
we didn't we didn't have any that were that   that big when they uh went  
two two of them uh the wind the wind blew over   uh in in terms of getting them down  
uh   the  
yeah  
yeah  
now the one that the one that we lost the last one that we lost a a year ago   uh up until then they hadn't been big enough  
but what i just used a hand saw and [sawed] them off at at   as close   close to ground level as i could   and then uh got   got some chemical that drill holes and pour in that helps   helps [rot] the  
stump yeah   stump killer and stump stump [rotter]  
but uh this last one had a fair sized root  
and some guy was doing a job in the neighborhood uh  
and and saw it and stopped in and asked   if i didn't want the stump dug out on the spot for thirty five bucks  
and i said fine  
he had he had a trailer with a machine on it that was specifically for that  
and it  
yeah  
and it it just it just ripped it   right out  
and uh i took the  
it left the it left he left the chips  
and i put them up   mulch around around the other shrubs   and uh uh had had a pile of dirt from various things uh back by the garage that i filled in with  
and   and it's filling in with with grass uh nicely this year so that that was that was worth it  
but uh  
yeah  
yeah  
but uh  
yeah  
well  
do you do your own uh   lawn in terms of uh mowing  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i  
uh yeah  
i i i we just got a a old push uh uh sears mower  
i it's been fifteen years now since we first moved to texas we've had it  
and i keep waiting for it to die  
but every year it just seems to hang on  
and uh and uh i do it my do it myself  
but uh yeah  

a year a year ago i took into   took it into sears to have it tuned up for the season  
and they said no it's it's too old  
we won't even work on it  
and i took it back home  
and it's  
can't  
kept  
plugs along  
but uh  
but my son's uh one of my sons and a couple of his friends this year have  
okay  
i i guess first of all i'll just say we haven't done much uh gardening  
we do lawn work all the time  
but uh our gardening we lost  
remember the last two freezes  
i don't know how long you've been here  
but we lost our bushes in those and have been waiting to plant new ones  
and so as far as our bushes we don't have any  
but we do have some [blackberry] bushes  
and   and they were really hearty and stayed on  
and we've done really well with them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and so they've been really good  
and the kids i had to  
the first year i had to tell the kids not to pick them when they were red because they were supposed to be blackberries  
but uh we go out  
it it's hard to go out when it's this hot  
and uh but uh keep the weeds out of them and and keep them off the ground so the ants don't eat them  
and they're okay  
yeah  
uh   uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh we have some flowers that have  
they're just are real hearty also  
and they're bold  
and they come up every year  
but uh they're getting too thick  
i need to go thin them out  
and uh   there's a  
i don't know what kind of flowers they are  
they're real common around here  
they're they're orange  
and they look like a lily sort of  
uh   yeah  
no  
but i think they're real pretty when it rains because their petals don't soak the rain in  
they they keep the the rain on the outside little rain   drops  
and and they look real pretty after the rain  
and so i really like them  
but i need to get out and and um do that  
now as far as our grass it grows crazy here  
it just keeps growing and growing  
and   uh sometimes my husband does it  
and sometimes my son does it  
but it just is  
i don't i don't know  
i've lived in utah my whole life  
and we can't seem to get ours green  
i don't know  
yeah  
uh_huh  
crappy i know  
we have that too  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh dear  
no  
uh_huh  
had somehow gotten in  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
the the other problem that we have  
well it's funny because the one the two bushes on the ends of the house that i think are ugly they lived  
and so i i don't know  
so like i wanted to go out and kill them too  
they had no right to live  
but anyway uh under our trees we get a a north sun  
and uh the  
it looks like our trees don't have any grass under them  
and we just can't grow uh grass underneath there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
it's a vicious cycle   isn't it  
it just really  
well i don't  
we've never done anything like this  
but we've been thinking you know if we built up uh you know either a wood wooden like trench thing around where our bushes were and filled it like with a nice dirt   then maybe we could plant some either flowers   or or some new bushes in there that would live  
and so i think that we're going to try that  
i i think the i think that's pretty much what we have decided  
now i have two long windows  
and i'm trying to decide whether to put like bushes in front of them or not   you know maybe just halfway up the window or something like that so people can't see and hear too much  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what our two rooms are on the front too with these long windows  
one is a bedroom for our our oldest son  
and one is uh an office that my husband and i work in  
and so i i really don't like it too much because then the back of our house faces that  
well the flowers are out by the back of the house  
so and that's why the front room is  
so that's not too bad  
but i like to look at the flowers  
they're pretty  
yeah  
but it's funny because uh you try so hard i think sometimes to to anyway i do to do our yard  
and then it's like the wind blows everything whether the weeds from your yard to your neighbors or yours   to them  
or and so even if you did get it under control it seems like in just a few months it would all be back  
and  
it's hard to get out a lot and do that yard work  
uh_huh  
i know  
it is it's not my favorite   thing in the world either  
i'm glad i have an old enough son to do it for me now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that is one chore that we will pay him for if he'll go do the yard work out outside  
so   yeah  
right  
exactly  
exactly  
yeah  
i do  
oh really  
did you plant those yourself  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh  
that's nice  
i i love blackberries  
and we uh  
when i was smaller we my family lived in tennessee  
and there used to be wild blackberries that we'd go out and pick my brother and i  
but i don't have any down here  
oh i think i know what they  
i can't remember what the name of them are either  
oh  
down here the grass  
well i'm  
we've had problems with our yard  
we  
it was one big weed is what it was  
it was just horrible  
and my neighbors on either side of me have beautiful lawns  
and we have this god awful ugly thing  
and   and i know they must think you know i wish those people would do something about their yard  
but my husband got some new fertilizer and stuff that that seems to be helping  
and he put it on the front yard   to see how you know it would do and stuff before he put it on the backyard  
but we've got a great [dane] in the back  
and she has eaten everything i have put out there  
she's eaten my crepe myrtle trees  
i know  
and she's eaten the bushes  
i've tried to i spent like eight hours planting this nice garden out there  
and i [barricaded] it up   so she couldn't get into it  
and i went and took a shower and looked back out there  
and she was already in it  
and i was so mad  
so i can't do anything back   there   because she just she destroys it  
but i've tried out in the front  
but like you said that that freeze that came  
i had some bushes that uh some shrubs i put out front  
and it killed those too  
so i'm just real discouraged with the whole thing  
i just don't even want to do anything  
yeah  
that that happened to us  
we have these  
i know  
oh i know  
ours don't  
i know  
we can't either  
but i've got two good size [cottonwood] trees out in my front yard uh you know one on either side of the yard  
and and they're big  
and they're real full and everything you know in the summer time  
but it it's killing everything underneath   where the leaves are [shading] the tree  
but toward the end of the summer you know when everything starts dying off and whatnot and then the light can get through the tree then the grass starts growing  
but by then it's so late then the winter comes and it stops  
you know it's it's   it's a never ending cycle  
yeah  
it really is  
so we've been trying to get something or to pull some grass underneath there and and whatnot  
so  
uh_huh  
huh  
yeah  
really  

well i don't really have to worry about that that much because my [sons'] bedrooms are in the front  
and they've got mini [blinds] and stuff  
but only only one is really like in the flower bed part  
and the other one is out on the porch  
so there's not really much i can do about that  
yeah  
i do too  
that's why i look at my neighbors yard  
i don't have anything to look at  
so i look at theirs  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it it's really a pain  
my husband works a lot  
so um a lot  
yeah  
i'm  
it's usually me and the kids that go out and mow the yard  
and   and i just i really do not appreciate having to go out there and do it  
i hate to mow the yard more than anything else  
i hate to mow that yard  
yeah  
well mine's getting there  
he helps  
he does half  
and i do half  
so   pretty soon though by next year he should be able to do it all by himself   whether he likes it or not  
oh sure i'll be more then glad to pay him   if he'd just go out there and do it   and and do it to where i don't have to go back out and redo it  
that that's my only thing with him  
that's why i'm help having him help me now  
the question was on lawn and garden work  
um how do you like it  
oh what kind do you have  
do they really  
oh  
oh and i know somebody that lives there  
and they never mentioned that problem  
oh my  
they probably just take it for granted then  
oh yuck  
i don't have that problem uh  
it's  
mine is mainly  
we kind of have an understanding that uh i i said i'll do inside work you do outside work  
and so i get into the gardening part of it the fun part   like putting in the [annuals] and things like that  
but i don't like i don't like it dirty  
no  
i don't know  
we got the we got the question  
and i thought oh this is going to be interesting  
two bits i'll get a man to talk to me   because they get stuck doing it all  
but although i do know a lot of my friends do like all the gardening work  
and this year we put in a new lawn in a new home  
so um   we've been fighting a drought here this summer   and getting into fall  
today we just had a lot of rain  
yeah  
so it's kind of nice  
i don't know how yours has been  
oh i see  
okay  
well we're leaving tomorrow  
and we're going down to new orleans  
and from ohio since we're right near lake erie  
this is going to be a switch for us for a week   going down there  
and i think we'll probably experience some of your weather although i think they have more humidity  
but um   as far as the gardening and things like that goes i don't know uh too much too much about uh how much i really do enjoy it myself  
do you like it at all  
well how about when you were in colorado  
uh_huh  
well and then too now like where we had the dry summer and we had to sprinkle constantly my water bill was high  
and uh if you have that on a regular basis in texas i think i would go with something very dry to keep it off you know  
but uh and with children um you probably don't have time anyhow   to to get into it  
it's so uh okay very good  
i guess we've kind of covered our subject matter   since neither one is really into gardening are we  
right  
okay  
right  
nice talking with you  
uh_huh  
bye  
well i don't do much of it here  
i'm from uh from uh colorado originally  
and there are no bugs there  
and i didn't mind getting in the dirt there  
but boy i'll tell you what  
once i see these bugs around here i'm just kind of out of it  
oh roaches and  
oh yes  
[cockroaches] are awful here  
just awful  
so i  
oh you're kidding you're kidding  
no  
it's a  
well maybe they didn't mention it because it's just kind of a fact of life around here  
and uh  
it must be  
if they lived here a lot of people i know just say oh i just [stomp] on them  
it doesn't matter  
they make good fertilizer in the garden  
me personally can't  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
i have to you know i have to say that's not exactly my favorite thing either really  
huh  
oh really  
well it's been real hot here lately  
i mean we've had to actually have the air conditioning on and everything  
but uh  
it's supposed to rain again now uh this weekend  
so then  
yeah  
yeah  
i well not here  
i mean it's just here  
i just can't stand to even get out in the uh in the dirt  
just  
well i liked it a little bit  
but i didn't uh  
i was working at that time full time and didn't have a lot of time   for that  
and so that i think really um [hampered] it a little bit  
yeah  
no  
not really  
uh_huh  
sounds like  
no  
no  
afraid not  
uh hopefully they'll give a subject i like one of these times   something i really know a lot about  

nice talking to you  
okay  
bye bye  
lawn and garden work and what you enjoy and what kind of work you do  
i'm i'm a [putterer]  
i chose that topic because i really like gardening   as far as flowers and shrubs and just keeping a pretty yard  
oh  
uh_huh  
we've had a late fall  
it seems like the weather  
in fact today it's really warm  
and so many of the summer flowers are still pretty enough that you hate to pull them up  
but you know you need to pretty soon  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so now   you have the chance to really create and and spread out  
uh_huh  
the grass   not growing so fast  
oh  
um  
ours seems to have slowed down here  
we're not having to mow every week religiously  
but we're still fighting bugs and ready to change some of the the summer flowers out  
i still have [caladiums] that are pretty which is a surprise this late in the year  
uh_huh  
but like today it's eighty five degrees  
it's really strange  
but that'll change   real quick  
we'll wish we'd planted bulbs and pansies already  
oh my gosh  
well texas has gotten to where it's a real problem as far as plants because our summers are so terribly hot  
and we have ice storms every year  
and there just aren't that many plants and shrubs that can take both of those   extremes  
some of the things that used to be hardy are getting to where they don't make it through the two swings  
uh_huh  
well for the most part we don't  
but we have usually just a pocket of really bad hot and really bad cold  
well the summers have gotten where they're a lot hotter  
but the the ice storms really are stressful on all the the plants that we have around  
we've noticed that crepe myrtles don't do as well as they used to   and uh pittosporum  
that used to be the kind of things we could plant all the time  
you you   really take a chance with them freezing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
except for the lack of trees out where we are   it was all cotton fields  
and when we get to other parts of the country where the trees are so beautiful we really miss it  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
okay  
i missed a part of it  
we're to talk about what lawns and gardens  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i well  
it's it's it's very strange that i got this call because my wife just called me  
i was just in the shower after finishing mowing the lawn   and you know mowing the lawn and removing some old petunias out of the garden  
this type of thing is working right in to start planting fall fall bulbs  
uh  
well that's the way this was  
the the petunias were really great  
our mums are are beautiful  
uh i don't know if we i don't think we've had a frost up here  
i've been i was down in for a week  
so i don't know what happened last week  
uh but uh it seems like it's i don't know if it's late  
i'm sort of waiting for indian summer  
so i can get a lot of stuff down out here  
uh i i enjoy it  
we came here we just moved into this well we moved in in november and put all all the landscaping in this this year  
we came from nine years in a condo uh  
and working in that condo you didn't have to do anything   you know unless you really wanted to  
so    
right  
you know i can't  
this is my third third house i think i've owned um  
but uh it's interesting you know  
the only problem is that i do quite a bit of traveling  
and it sort of gets away from me   if you're not with it  
so but uh i i enjoy most of it  
and about this time of year there is it starts getting a little old  
and i start looking forward to you know having other things to do with my    
well it is it is for me  
because i've been doing a lot of fertilizing  
we had a terrible summer  
we had a drought  
and uh took a lot of watering and a lot of fertilizing  
and now it's really growing  
and i'm trying to establish a good root root growth   you know for the winter  
really  
uh  
oh really  
um  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i hear that from my brother in law lives in plano  
yeah  
well he always  
he waits until it gets about seventeen below up here  
and then he calls us  
yeah  
it's seventy degrees here in the sunshine  
so  

uh_huh  
yeah  
that is  
i was you know i was like conditioned to it  
they they have to be hardened to it  
that's that's strange with me  
you know you think dallas you know almost [semitropical] you wouldn't have that kind of that kind of problem  
but  
uh_huh  
really  
oh do they  
uh_huh  
i love  
yeah  
i love the uh the landscaping  
like i say my brother in law i get to carrollton quite a bit  
i go there on business  
and i really enjoy getting around and seeing the different areas with different gardens  
and texas is  
dallas is very nice  
i really enjoy it there the landscaping the homes the [architecture] the whole thing   very enjoyable gardens  
and my wife and i  
well  
yeah  
that we have you know  
[ohio's] a very pretty state  
we moved in seventy six we moved to chicago  
we lived there for five years  
and i remember the first time i took my wife there on a house hunt  
uh we were coming in  
and before the plane landed she looked out the window  
and she said she said there's no trees down there  
this is illinois  
you're not  
and when we got out to the area where we decided we were going to live and buy a house there were no trees   because the farmers had cleared all the land  
and now all of a sudden it was being developed  
and the first thing i did was planted all kinds of trees  
okay  
well what do you do on your yard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
comes back in the yard  
so you don't have any one do your yard  
you do it yourself  
yeah  
we do too  
isn't that the truth  
a [flyer's] on every door every day  
that's right  
well we um we my husband does the same thing  
he does the yard  
and he wants me to learn how to work the lawn mower  
but i keep putting off learning  
that's right  
but i had recently gone out and planted mums  
we had decided to paint the front of the house about three weeks ago  
and so while my husband was painting i went out and bought about fifty dollars worth of mums over at calloway's  
and put out yellow and bronze  
and they're just gorgeous and so then last week my mom comes in town  
and she says well those are going to die just the first frost  
she said you should have done pansies  
and i went well now you tell me  
so the first night that around halloween  
and we went out and covered them with a sheet  
and they did okay that first night  
but the second night we were at the movies and didn't do it  
so i guess i've lost them  
i haven't gone out to check yet  
no  
listen  
but um the worst problem we've had here with this grass was about the third year we were here  
i guess it was about four years ago  
and we did not know in august to put down the uh whatever it is for grub worms  
and the next spring i guess in that march every time we would go out and just try to walk on the grass or reach down to pull a weed we'd have big whole [patches] come up  
have you ever seen it   what grub worms do  
and we pulled up almost half of our yard just by raking it  
it would just come off in the rake down to the dirt  
so we had to go out and [resod] the whole thing with squares and wet it and put it down and rope it off and everything  
it took a lot of money and a lot of time  
so the most careful thing we do on our yard every august is put down that diazinon  
oh yeah  
we found them  
yeah  
we found them  
we dug under there about an inch  
and you could see them  
they're real fat little white things  
and   they said they turn into black bugs in the spring  
yeah  
but in but in the  
uh_huh  
yeah  
june bugs is what i'd heard them called  
so any how occasionally i find them in the flower beds  
they said that every yard has some  
but it was a [preponderance] of them that caused our problem  
so that's the number one thing we do whether we fertilize or anything else just because we got burned so badly before  
oh yeah  
that too  
two years ago or last christmas   is that what you're talking about  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i guess you did too  
it's what they've done in the spring   or the fall  
yeah  
because i started to say you can there's different times they say it's okay to do it  
yeah  
yeah  
keep it damp  
well my  
out here you know we don't have as many trees in plano  
at least the area where  
we're over by collin creek mall  
and but a lot of the shrubbery that we have in the front like the pittosporum all died  
and all those [variegated] uh things died  
so we pretty much go with that dwarf yaupon and that yaupon holly  
and they just live  
yeah  
you can you can stand those  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well it's kind of like one of these  
same way  
uh_huh  
that they they warned me of that one finally  
and i said you know you need to either read neal [sperry's] book before you shop or get a reputable nursery because lot of places that would are just trying to sell whatever was pretty out there  
and we didn't know the difference  
and every year we learn one more thing that we didn't know before like about these mums  
okay  
next year i'll do pansies  
and my backyard we had it really nice  
and then my husband wanted a labrador puppy  
and so it was about  
i guess he's three now  
so the first summer he was here he dug up all of my bushes and plants   and brought them to the front door and the back door and laid them on the patio  
so it's like our backyard is just kind of like  
as long as he won't damage it fine  
and if he'll if there's anything he'll hurt we just don't put it out there any more  
uh_huh  
very much  
but uh  
you did  
huh  
uh_huh  
so do ours  
yeah  
what did you grow  
that is amazing  
yeah  
well put them in a salad though  
and you say well i made it though at least it's mine  
well uh typical lawn stuff  
saint augustine uh   with a little bermuda mixed in in some of the sunny areas  
uh and really all i do to it is  
uh in fact i didn't even fertilize it this year  
i just mowed it  
and i i mow it uh you know with a mulch mower so the the particles fall down  
yeah  
i do it myself  
have a lot of people trying to do it for me  
hey i need the exercise  
so what the heck  
hey you've got the right idea  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't blame you  
i wouldn't want to look at them  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
you you think that's what it was huh  
okay  
yeah  
yeah  
those kind of brown uh   what we call june bugs  
and some people call them may [beetles]  
uh yeah  
yeah  
well i had some of that problem  
but mine was freeze  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i'm still   i'm still replacing that in the back especially under the trees   uh you know kind of slow and as you say very expensive  
i caught wolfe with uh uh one uh one of the sales where they have those big blocks for fifty cents  
and uh   i bought about twenty of them  
uh well i put you know  
that was late  
that was like  
yeah  
that was like september i think  
and i had to water it you know  
gosh  
yeah  
they're pretty tough uh  
pittosporum is kind of borderline here  
and usually it'll do pretty well  
but uh you know every once in a while we get one of these really cold deals  
and it [zaps] it  
oh wax leaf wax leaf [ligustrum] is the same way  
yeah  
your list is growing  
oh yeah  
oh gee  
um  
yeah  
kind of cuts your possibilities for the flower beds  
yeah  
i had a had a small vegetable garden that uh  
it did pretty well  
it's it's like on the   side the [apron] of the of the parkway out behind the garage  
and uh our our garages come in from the back you know from the alley  
and uh it's it's a little piece of land over there  
well i had uh tomatoes and and uh uh peppers  
and i had   i had okra  
and by the fence i had cucumbers which which didn't do real well uh  
they kind of came out looking like [gourds]  
but i had squash  
i had zucchini and and yellow [crook] neck squash  
okay  
i'll let you start this time  
well uh even though it's totally out of my uh my degree training i've been working as as in the [horticultural] aspect so   the last i don't know fifteen twenty years so   uh i'm  
well i work for the state as as a grounds [keeper]  
no  
mostly snow [removal]   which we've had a lot of  
but uh i don't know  
i i guess uh growing up on the farm and and that i i've always had a big interest uh  
i have a uh when i have an area to do i i always had a big garden   and enjoy working on lawns and and everything  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's terrible  
twenty three  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's one one aspect of a lot of those grasses they go [dormant]  
i think the saint augustine and uh [centipede] grass is another one you have quite a bit of down there  
yeah  
those two  
yeah  
um   yeah  
well i know my folks live uh in arizona there  
and uh you know they just grow rocks  
and   that's their gardening there so uh i guess as long as you can have uh some grass there  
so i know i was in uh houston when i was working for a company once  
and we were taking care of lawns out there  
and uh that particular year they had just tons of rain you know  
it was raining continuously  
and then i know with all that moisture a lot of the lawns get a lot of disease problems  
uh_huh  
are are you uh able to get uh sometimes a double crops of of certain things in your garden  
well how much do you like lawn and garden work  
oh  
oh for goodness sakes  
what do you do  
uh_huh  
well that's interesting  
um so at this time of the year are you doing much garden work  
right  
uh_huh  
well i love to work outside really  
and i enjoy flowers and stuff  
i don't do a whole lot of it um at this exact point in my life um because i have two teenage boys  
and so they do all the lawn   all the lawn care  
but i still take care of the you know flower beds and things like that  
i was even planning to go out and to uh dig up some [hibiscus] plants that will not make it through the winter here but you know were planted in the ground since last spring  
and i was going to dig them up for a friend and for some starters for me  
and [lo] and [behold] about five days ago we had a freeze down to about oh twenty three degrees or something  
so the   [hibiscus] plants no longer exist  
and i really feel bad about it  
it's a plant that we've had for probably twenty five years that these   were [cuttings] off of you know  
so they're all gone at this point  
gardening in texas is really interesting though  
i grew up in illinois  
and um texas is just so hot in the summer and so dry  
why you know everyone that lives in town and has yards practically has uh watering system  
and so with that why our lawns do stay um you know pretty nice all summer if you water  
but in the winter we have bermuda grass  
and in the winter it turns as brown as a grocery sack  
and and i just think it's ugly  
when i go back home to my parents in illinois in the winter you know and their grass is fairly green  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
some people have i think it's fescue   that stays green all winter  
but they really have a heck of a time keeping it going in the middle of the summer  
they have to water an incredible amount  
but um those those lawns look nice during the winter  
but you know they almost stick out like a i guess not a sore thumb a pretty thumb  
but you know when you look at the neighborhoods and they're all brown except the one you know  
it's sort of like well  
right  
uh_huh  
yes  
that's true  
yeah  
houston is a lot um a lot [wetter] than than dallas dallas area  
that's where plano is  
and um and just humidity   you know just all the time it's an awfully lot more humid  
yes  
uh_huh  
i think people do  
yeah  
i don't have a vegetable garden  
haven't for i guess i never have here actually  
but um but yes  
uh_huh  
we have neil sperry talks on the radio  
well i have a town home  
so i don't do a lot of regular maintenance  
but i do have a large garden out in back  
so we do a lot of things with perennials and uh also a few annual plants uh  
and then every year i grow a garden  
yes  
um we have virtually no room out in front  
and then in the back i'd say we have about an eighth of an acre  
and we pretty much fill it up with uh like i said perennials things that aren't don't have to fool with every year  
but then i've got uh a twenty five by twenty area that i do gardening as far as you know tomatoes and cucumbers and beans  
and  
no  
we have a separate area for the garden  
yeah  
and last year was the first year we tried two new things  
we tried corn  
and   we tried a watermelon  
uh  
i enjoy doing it on a limited basis  
i don't think that if i  
the reason i bought a townhouse is so that i wouldn't  
i get  
i'm allergic to grass  
so i don't mow grass or anything like that  
so i think if i had a big home and a big lawn i'd i don't believe i would enjoy it  
but just on the limited basis that i do it i do enjoy it very much  
oh wow  
how about that  
well that's nice  
that much land requires an awful lot of time  
how about that  
well i bet you could answer a question for me  
what's a good apple to bake pies with  
are there and  
there's an  
okay lowell  
so i'd like to know um what what do you do in lawn and garden  
what uh what's what's of interest to you  
and how do you go about it  
oh you do you do actually uh grow a garden to produce food  
uh_huh  
so how much room do you have  
uh_huh  
oh that's what i was curious about  
i was wondering whether you had actually some of the flowers that you had planted were bulb type that you would dig up and and then put down your garden and then put them back in later or something like that  
so you  
uh_huh  
you do have a separate area  
oh  
uh_huh  
well tell me this uh lowell  
do you do you enjoy doing that kind of work  
and   do you have the time to relax so that you can take advantage of it  
uh_huh  
well i'm a little more fortunate i think from that point of view  
i'm not allergic to things  
and i moved here in state college quite a while ago and was fortunate to get some land  
so actually i have nine acres  
and uh for many years i grew sweet corn  
uh and and my kids were there  
and so we set up a shop there  
and uh i would uh collect the corn very carefully ear by ear  
and it was never more than one to two hours old  
and people came from miles and miles around to get that corn because they knew it was individually picked and very very fresh  
so we had a nice thing going there  
and it was delicious  
huh i really enjoyed that  
and then i also have a a garden  
oh it's probably uh twenty five by thirty or forty something like that that i put in my normal food garden things each year  
and uh i have a little bit of everything or a whole lot of everything in the  
actually i love uh broccoli [brussels] [sprouts]  
and i have all kinds of tomatoes [kale] and all those good things  
and i rent out my field that i used to plant in sweet corn to a local farmer  
and then he plants about a quarter of an acre of sweet corn for me to use  
so i get out of that amount of work at any rate  
it is it is very very nice  
i i really enjoy it  
my problem is not having enough time to do the job as completely and as thoroughly as i would like  
i enjoy it very much  
yes  
it does  
uh and actually i had a pony there for twenty five years  
and he had two acres that he had for his own [grazing]  
so he had his own backyard garden too  
but that that worked out very nicely too  
i built him a barn back there where in the part of my corn field  
and he lived in that  
but uh as far as gardening is concerned we do enjoy it  
my wife is in charge of the flowers  
she does all of the flower gardening throughout the whole property  
and we have you know an acre an acre and a half that the house is sitting in the middle of  
and she has flower gardens and bulbs perennials and things  
we have blueberries blackberries  
i have two or three uh apple trees  
the golden delicious were fantastic this year  
my neighbor has pear trees and um oh blueberries all kinds of food around there if we just had time to take advantage of it  
my wife has spent probably i don't know how many hours in the last two or three weeks canning [pears] because there were so many of them  
and i have been totally [engulfed] with golden delicious apples  
i just couldn't handle the the amount of them we got this year  
it's really been a remarkable year  
i use my golden delicious  
and they make delicious pies  
okay  
do do you have a home or apartment  
okay  
do you have to do a lot of upkeep  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that's nice  
i wish i could say that  
ours is pretty small too  
but it it takes about an hour with the two of us working   to you know do the bushes and all of that sort of thing  
uh the worst part is controlling the weeds   which i hate because we don't like to use a lot of the chemicals and because like we have a dog and and you know he's going to be out in the yard and who knows who he eats out there  
but we try not to use them but we end up using some anyway  
uh um what else  
i get to put out all the christmas lights out there and all that   sort of thing  
no  
oh okay  
well if they if they go up  
like one year we   did the edge of the house   all the way up on the roof  
and i   i went up on the roof once and i'll never do it again  
i decided i was afraid  
so this year he got lazy so i said fine  
i'll put some on the bushes  
and that's about it  
that's all   it gets  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
oh no  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
oh no   but you still have to pay for it though even though they're not going to do it  
oh is it real expensive  
oh gosh  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
well do do they do other things for you all  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
but you knew when you moved in you'd have to pay that didn't you  
oh  
yeah  
i don't know either  
that's interesting  
uh_huh  
now do at a  
do things like plant bushes and trees  
oh okay  
so there is like no restriction on what types of bushes you can have or anything like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
when we moved into our house i just hated the bushes they had  
i i ripped most of them out and put them somewhere in the back  
and put new ones out front  
but that was a lot of work  
took me a long time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and then then we put in a sprinkler system  
and   we won't go through that again  
i will pay someone to do it  
oh it took so long  
because my husband was you know digging the [trenches] because he didn't want to get a [trencher] you know  
there is a machine that will   do it  
because you know there is so many people that broke either their water main or their gas main doing it  
and   i guess that costs you an absolute fortune  
by hand  
yeah  
but it works great now that we've got it  
yeah  
it's nice  
yeah  
well we needed to because we're having some foundation trouble  
you know you have to keep the the area moist   around the house or it makes it worse  
so we had an incentive there   to do that  
uh_huh  
i have a home  
not really  
we have a small backyard and small front yard  
but uh uh i do basically like the shrubbery and the planting and the weeding  
and he mows the lawn because the lawn mower is too heavy  
that's another story  
and uh and uh i do the edging and stuff like that  
but uh it doesn't take us that long because our our yard is so small  
but uh i try and do as much you know [flowering] as i can and   that kind of stuff   the seasonal things  
but uh i think we have one of the nicest yards in the in the neighborhood  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's true  
i don't  
no  
he does that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh   oh god  
yeah  
don't blame you  
yeah  
huh okay  
we don't have that many bushes to put them on  
uh our our yard is very uh narrow  
and so we have some bushes but we don't have too many  
but we have a nice tree in the front  
and   uh we have people that an association that comes and mows everybody's front yard  
and uh they keep hitting it the tree with the lawn mower  
you know every time you do that it uh kind of kills the tree for a while  
and so that's kind of [stunt] its growth for just a while until we get it back going again  
and we started mowing our own lawn  
because they were doing that  
and so anyways i have a nice full tree now  
and and we put we fill it with lights and   that kind of thing  
so  
and they would uh they also [edged]  
when they would edge in into the shrubbery and   oh gosh it was getting really bad  
so we  
yeah  
because it's an association fee  
yes  
it's like seventy a month  
yeah  
and i don't like  
i i just get really upset every time i make that check out  
but uh  
they take care of the uh landscape  
because we live in a cul de sac  
and there is a island in the middle  
so they care of that  
and there is a pool and they take care of the pool  
and and there is a pond  
they take care of the pond in the park area and that kind of thing  
and uh so you're basically paying oh  
and the sprinkler system that  
that  
our yard doesn't have a sprinkler system but the island does  
and uh   certain sharing areas have sprinkler systems  
and   and so that way if someone moves out the entire neighborhood is mowed and watered and that kind of thing you know  
so  
well it it it went up what we pay  
and that's the bad thing  
i just hope it doesn't go up any more  
because   we just can't afford it anymore  
i don't know what to do if you can't afford it  
so uh but they're  
that's what they do  
they take care of basically the front yards and   unless you don't want them to do it  
they  
only in like in the common areas and in the island  
but they don't do it in your yard  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so we've added bushes and and shrubbery too  
i know  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what we did when we first moved in too  
just [rearranged] some things  
oh  
oh really  
oh  
oh yeah  
oh  
that's true  
so gosh  
you did it manually  
oh  
oh gosh  
i bet  
yeah  
that's a good investment there  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
well we have it just opposite here  
my wife works in you know at at at the t i  
and she's uh sedentary all day long   so when she gets home she likes to mow  
and we have about ten acres  
and she tries   to mow about half of it  
well yeah  
it keeps uh well  
it's doing real well  
because when we got this place the the dirt was just [overgrazed]  
i mean you know it was bare dirt in a lot of places  
and now you know since we've been mowing it  
and you know of course we water a little bit  
that's just too much to water all at once  
but   but just by keeping it mowed and getting it mulched in we've [reclaimed] a lot of it  
yeah  
but we don't do much in the way of uh flowers  
we have one little flower garden   that we that we work with  
the rest of it is just like wild flowers  
and in the summertime we get the prettiest yellow flowers  
they're about oh i guess a third the size of your palm of your hand  
and   course in the spring we get the bluebonnets and indian [paintbrush]  
yeah  
well my wife and i really enjoy that sort of thing  
uh she enjoys mowing  
i can't believe it  
i mean i hate it  
right  
we don't even have any concrete   or asphalt  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but you know we do everything together  
this this spring we got a thousand pine trees from the  
actually this fall i was talking about  
two weeks ago   we got a thousand pine trees from the you know soil and conservation people  
and uh we're in the process of of planting  
and we're building a stand uh just to the north of our house and along the east uh property line  
and i uh i think what we're what we're trying to do is create sort of a wind break   because i tell you in the winter time when that when that wind comes out of the north it just cuts right through you like you're not even there  
so  
on the other side of the house though that's where we have all the the delicate flowers and the mums  
and we have morning glory  
and we have trumpet vine and moon flowers  
and we planted those out by the [septic] so that uh they get plenty of water  
and we get [hummingbirds] come in the   spring you know all summer long  
and well when we leave the doors open they fly in the house  
well yeah  
they don't like it in here because there's nothing to eat  
and when you're as busy as one of those babies you've got to eat most of the time  
and we got a few you know  
we put up some [hummingbird] [feeders] and some bird [feeders]  
but you know for the most part gardening for us is  
well we got asparagus  
and uh we've got some plum trees and some apple trees and some tomato   and some blackberries and strawberries  
man we get the best strawberries that you just can't believe  
we just got our last tomatoes  
yeah  
well these are accidental [tomatos]  
well last year the birds came and ate a few of the tomatoes  
of course you're going to lose some that way  
and the seeds go right through them  
and wherever they [pooped]  
let's see  
my husband does the majority of the um the uh gardening uh taking care of the lawn and fertilizing  
but i um tend to all the planting the [annuals] and and the spraying   and um taking care of them and maybe putting flowers in you know throughout that season and later on maybe planting some mums and that kind of stuff and um any kind of decorating for the holidays you know  
i'll fix the porch up with [pumpkins] for halloween and christmas  
but basically he does all the heavy stuff  
and i do all the fun stuff  
uh_huh  
i see  
wow  
wow that's a a big job  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
oh i bet it's beautiful  
uh_huh  
wild flowers  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds lovely  
uh_huh  
oh the wild flowers are beautiful  
i think um i was thinking about throwing some for in the back just where the kids um just way in the back behind the swing sets  
or just have some wild flowers growing back there would be real pretty  
then you don't really have to have much maintenance involved  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know a lot of  
uh_huh  
a lot of women do um  
i've just never really you know  
maybe one of these days i'll have to get out there and mow  
but um my husband takes it on  
and i'll help rake up the grass  
and um sometimes i'll help him edge um  
because we don't have that much property  
but we're on a corner lot  
so there's a lot of edging to do  
and um uh that's what's nice about living more in the country  
you don't have to worry about any of that  
oh  
oh that's nice  
i  
this is different for us because the other  
in the past we've had homes that haven't had any side walks  
and um it's been a little more country with the trees  
and we do miss that  
um if we had a chance to move i think we'd move back to somewhere that was a little more [countrified]   and a little less maintenance required   as as far as that goes  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
wow that's  
um  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
well i put  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that sounds so pretty  
oh really  
do they don't do any damage though  
they just fly right back out if you have the  
i see  
i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh oh that sounds wonderful  
oh i love home grown [tomatos]  
there's nothing like them  
they just don't have the same ones in the supermarket  
what does that mean accidental tomatoes  
uh_huh  
i see  
hello  
well i hit one and nothing happened  
what's going on  
are you sure  
don't they usually tell you to say something  
oh  
okay  
we're supposed to talk about lawn and garden  
what do i do  
well i uh i cut it   occasionally  
is uh is that good  
okay  
and i edge it occasionally  
yeah  
see am i good or what  
and uh   uh much beyond that i don't do  
uh_huh  
oh he is going to build you a fence  
uh_huh  
what for   a fence  
oh well i thought isn't he the same one  
yeah  
well my  
i don't know  
yeah  
yeah  
but you know you ought to get him to pull the weeds  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well so  
yeah  
so   you haven't you haven't pulled any weeds lately  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh oh [goody]  
i thought you were going to say there   i thought you were going to say there was a snake in the weeds  
oh god oh  
yeah  
oh god  
but uh how are your your flowers your little things you planted  
did they die or what  
oh they're all  
so they oh  
are they going to come back in the spring  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
i don't know uh  
those flowers remember those little ones you gave me  
yeah  
well they're i know they were still blooming up until about a a few weeks ago  
yeah  
yeah  
they   they're really pretty  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i mean   isn't it supposed to be five minutes  
we didn't [disconnect] did we  
boy i hate to think   i hate to think i'd be talking to you without getting paid  
what  
uh_huh  
you're kidding  
really  
well the uh  
i i talked to someone woman from oklahoma city and some woman from dallas  
and that was it  
uh_huh  
wow  
really  
oh really  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i don't know  

yeah  
well there isn't really much to talk about as far as lawn and garden goes  
not for me   either  
what   do i  
yeah  
but i don't you know  
i what do i do cut it one you know and and edge it  
and that's about it  
what do i do with it  
no  
what's going on  
are they going to tell us to stop or what  
isn't it five minutes  
i i mean i'm all talked out about gardens  
oh oh it's just suggested  
what  
we could talk   let's talk about the baby  

yes  
i forgot we had to hit one  
our time will be up  
well just go ahead and talk  
that's all  
yeah  
i don't think so  
uh_huh  
yes  
i'm i'm supposed to find out what you do for your lawn   and garden  
uh_huh  
good  
uh_huh  
you're ahead of me  
that's better  
oh that's really good  
yeah  
i don't do any of that  
really  
well i call my lawn man eric whatever his name is i can't remember   who's going to come and build me a fence too  
well he's giving me an estimate  
and for ten dollars a week i don't see any reason   for me to   be doing it  
no for my yard   yeah  
he is  
yeah  
but ten dollars or what what does he charge not even that  
what does he charge me  
it's like next to nothing  
it's ten because i  
it's forty a month  
but if there's five weeks i still pay forty  
well he won't pull weeds  
he says he'll spray them  
but he won't pull them  
uh he won't cut them is what he won't do   because he said with the rocks   that it's too dangerous for him to take the the [trimmer]   over the rocks  
and he's right  
that's true  
but he just says to keep spraying them so  
anyway gene sprayed them once or twice for me  
so   that was real  
no  
no  
there are two out front  
i thought i'd grab one of these days  
but i haven't bothered as i walk on by  
i started to pull the weeds in the rocks out front  
and all of a sudden i came cross this big [clump] of weeds  
and there was dog dirt in it  
and i threw the gloves in the trash bag that was out there  
and i left the whole thing  
and   that was about a month ago  
i would rather a snake  
no  
i just left the whole thing  
the bag is still out there because i haven't touched it  
i haven't gone back over there  
it really made me mad  
so anyway but  
oh yeah  
now they died  
i don't know  
i don't know  
and then i got some nice uh mums at thanksgiving that i put in the pots out there  
and i thought they were supposed to live through all the cold weather  
they looked real pretty until about a week before christmas  
then they started to die too  
so i don't think any of it comes back  
but   i don't know  
maybe these  
sometimes things do that aren't even supposed to  
so  
yeah  
really  
well that's good  
they're the best kind  
they they're like indestructible  
they really grow nice  
and sometimes they're not supposed to come back  
but lots of times they do  
so  
we'll see  
they're letting us have a lot of time on this   aren't they  
but that's because we didn't hit one for a long time  
i hope not  
neither one of us   is getting paid for this  
yeah  
really  
i know it  
i can't believe this  
i got somebody from   utah   and somebody  
where was the person last night   was from far away  
and we get each other down the street  
this is so funny  
yeah  
i've had dallas arlington  
i've had uh one plano   and then a lady from brigham utah whose   son lives in plano on [ranier] someplace   and then uh another state  
i can't remember  
but she told me about the utah jazz  
we talked about basketball  
and i don't remember what what the place was last night  
but   i'm thinking colorado  
but i'm not sure  
i'd know the place anyway  
so  
but mostly they're from the area  
it  
not for me  
you know not   not for me   because all i have is rocks and weeds  
i know  
i know  
we're not typical texans  

i don't know  
i hope so  
come on  
come on  
i don't know  
i know  
well we can talk about something else  
it's just a suggested topic  
so how's the baby do you think  
how's the  
let's talk about the baby  

i pushed it  
so what do you you in your lawn  
do you do it yourself  
or do you hire someone to do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well we do our own out here uh you know mow it ourselves and everything  
but uh our water supply right now is bad  
we need rain badly  
uh we can water here in patterson i can water on tuesdays thursdays saturday and sunday four days a week  
so  
it was this last summer  
yeah  
uh now if it we don't get some rain they might limit it to not even four times you know  
but uh yeah  
we do our our you know mowing ourselves and everything  
and i do our planting of bulbs and things where i can have some spring flowers  
and uh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we have quite a few roses  
i just uh we in fact we just [pruned] them way down  
and i just had to replace one of them  
so i just bought that yesterday  
and i'll probably go outside today and plant that  
but um i like to have the roses where i can have cut flowers all year long  
i even had uh roses on my table for christmas dinner   which was really pretty you know  
but um other than the roses i don't have too many flowers  
i plant [gladiolas]  
and those are always pretty  
but they get so tall  
and they they bend over so fast   you know  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
well is it that one of those [amaryllis]  
no  
huh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
do you have a big yard  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that makes it nice  
well it's hot enough here in the summer time that we could have a pool  
but we don't have one   you know  
but they are a lot of people that do have pools around here   you know  
but we just we just have dogs and um   and grass   you know the cement work   and a little play set we made for a garden  
so we do have a garden you know  
it's just a small one you know  
but we had lots of tomatoes and uh zucchini  
it's amazing what you can get out of a little  
you know it's probably about twenty by i don't know twenty by six something like that  
and it's amazing what you can you know how many plants you can plant in there  
but it was nice  
few cucumbers  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
uh no  
we've been doing it ourselves for most of the time uh find that it's really a little more economical  
and we have oh i find that i have the time  
and i kind of enjoyed it over here in texas  
i used to live in arizona  
and it was very very frustrating because i didn't have the watering system  
and it was it was just too much work   and not enough enjoyment  
but over here we get enough water you know naturally as well have the automatic [sprinklers]  
and   so it's a lot more rewarding  
so  
oh that's right  
uh_huh  
is that enough during the hotter times of the year  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i find that i've been doing a lot of perennial planting which i never did before  
and it's been real enjoyable although i didn't do any this last fall because our past winters have been so cold um   they'd freeze down  
and by the time they the flowers would come back to life it was supposedly the time to pull things out for the spring and summer planting  
so i was getting kind of [disillusioned] and tired and and spending too much money on something that was kind of more of a problem than it was rewarding  
so   um i'm going to try to wait now and just do the spring and summer type [plantings] and   see how that you know feels  
uh_huh  
yeah  
those are enjoyable  
oh did you  
uh_huh  
um those are nice  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i haven't done much in in bulbs  
in fact i received as a christmas present a a [planter] that had bulbs in it that we were supposed to go ahead and water it any time and after it started to [sprout] put in a sunny window  
and it   it just grew like crazy  
but i don't have any flowers on it  
i don't know how long that takes or   if there's anything i need to do differently  
it's just nice and green right now  
uh no  
i'm thinking white [narcissus] or something   like a like a white paper flower or so  
and uh  
no  
not really  
and in plano and most of the newer areas of texas uh they have just the the minimum square footage for lots to where you get a little bit of a backyard  
we have a pool in our backyard  
and   we did plan it to where we have some some play yard left over  
but it's it's um you know very small  
but most of the houses here if you have a pool you don't have anything else in the backyard  
that's about the size of most of them  
so uh   i guess we're kind of fortunate  
everyone looks at that with our at our yard with kind of sense of awe like wow you really got you know some grass back there  
well  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
yeah  

oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's one part of gardening i haven't tried yet  
and   i don't think this yard is a very  
hi frank uh well to tell you the truth
my husband does most of the work
yeah
i feel real good about it
yeah
no
he has a um you know um a push mower
i mean it's electric of course um i think it's not very old about um not that old three or four years old maybe
and uh he he really enjoys it
so
yeah
that's fine
no
well last uh no
i do enough other things
i don't feel guilty about that
last year
this is i'm almost ashamed to admit it
but last year for the very first time i did mow the grass my first time in my whole life
and uh that wasn't too bad
i it was good exercise
well you know it's electric of course i mean it's a power a power mower
but it's it's pretty powerful
oh yeah
uh_huh
that's about the same for ours
yeah
oh yeah
uh_huh
oh yes
um let's see
we've got a weed [whacker] we have an uh [edger] you know that goes between the grass and the sidewalk um
right
um
that one is electric so he's got to plug that in and drag the cord around and let's see um hedge [clippers] you know electric of course hedge [clippers] um i think that's all of the power tools we have we um but that's that's i think that's about all they make
oh once a week
um actually though we just moved to uh texas a year and a half ago
and they have a new uh system that they're trying to promote here which is they don't bag it as they call it
um essentially cutting it um probably more like every four or five days and so it's still short enough so that you can mulch it back into the grass and never bag it for one thing um cuts down on waste
for landfills and all that
um it's actually through the county extension service
and they put out all kinds of information on it
and then they put up uh they had a few lawns in the area that were like samples and they put a big sign in their yard that said you know this is a don't bag it lawn and let you watch and see how they did it
so
their grass clippings were never bagged they just mulch back into the grass itself and acted as a fertilizer
yeah
as a matter of fact
and our lawn mower does that too
it's
you you shut off the where the bag would go or where it would you know spray out the side
so that it just [mulches] underneath it just goes back down um right underneath the blade
right
no
that's no
that's
it's not necessary to have that
nope
but you have to
but you're right though in that you do have to cut it though when it's um relatively short you can't let it go a week or two
because if the clippings are that long
then they'll just lay on top
they have to be short enough that they'll still fall back down
um into the grass
it takes takes him a lot less time because even though he does have to do it every four or five days um since he doesn't have to bag all of those clippings you know rather than taking i don't know as an example an hour and a half to do the whole lawn it only takes an hour
so you know plus less bags less waste
um we tried that
but we really weren't happy with it
so he does that all himself now
yeah
oh that's true
oh gee
i i'd say our grass is getting green right now
so i'm sure
he'll in fact he may have already cut it once i can't remember
um but it'll be we'll have to start cutting real soon
and uh then oh well on into october november i'm sure
right
that long
wow
right
what kind of grass do you have
uh_huh
right
right
uh_huh
right
oh really
we don't have one of those
uh_huh
does it work for leaves
oh
right
oh well
oh yeah
well that's sounds interesting
we don't i don't know if we do that very much
i think i remember my mom had one of those
i don't know
right
a compost pile
right
it's not composting i don't think so
no
i think it's supposed to be natural
oh well
i think you're supposed to turn it every once in a while
well i think it it on the inside is where it the chemicals you know it starts to break down
and i think you're supposed to turn it
i mean not not very often
but you know go in and and stir it up so to speak to get the stuff on the outside in to the inside
it might help
i don't know
yeah
i don't know
i i i think the idea is supposed to be natural so that you know there's no
no chemicals and plus then you can use it as a fertilizer and not have to worry about spreading those chemicals
like on your lawn or your bushes or whatever
uh_huh
and they're playing on they were playing on it
well um i just bought a home
so i've just now went out and purchased my brand new lawn mower
and um so i've been [assembling] it and haven't had a chance to get out there and and test it out
no
it's um uh it's an older home
and uh so it already has the the [yard's] already been established um but there have like big oak trees in the front
and so the grass is not growing out underneath the oak trees
so i'm going to have get out there and do something about that you know spread some seed and fertilizer and stuff
oh
uh_huh
oh okay
okay
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
right
right
uh_huh
oh uh_huh
um that's an idea
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
that's true
yeah
i have um in between the street and the sidewalk see are two of the oak trees
and then there's one uh sitting on the facing the house on the right hand side in the middle of that whole section
and then i have this whole section over there that has nothing in it at all
but just the grass
so that may be an idea to do is uh because i've got that concentration of trees right
there is to uh you know just do something like what you said was to put some kind of um uh little plants that does well in shade uh the [shaded] area and forget about you know trying to plant grass and stuff underneath that
the other thing too is that the oak trees have those acorns and i don't know if i'm going to have to go out there and if i can rake those up or if i'm going to have to pick them all up by hand
or what
well i know
but if you saw how many acorns were sitting up under there
you'd see it looks like an impossible task
but we have um um texas has a lot of the um wooden fenced in back yards
for privacy fence
so i did buy a a weed eater too
and uh so i could get you know around uh around the wooden fences
and um uh you know get all the weeds and stuff up out of there
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
wow
so what what did you did did you use did you have a [blower] or did you have the uh the vacuum
uh_huh
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that i've never
i don't think i've ever seen um a a vacuum though for the for the lawn i know i've seen the [blowers] who was it
oh [craftsman] uh_huh
uh
uh_huh
ooh that would be good
i think that's that's my problem is i i couldn't believe uh because i i guess the other people they weren't really outdoor type people because the lawn really needs to be
i have uh bushes and stuff that really need trimming
and um so uh so i'm just thinking how in the world
i was going to have to scrape up all those uh acorns that are sitting out there
they even have some little trees growing
because they just left them the acorns i guess sit
rather than raking them up um so you know i'm going to have to get out there and but it was interesting
i had to go buy a hoe and a rake i mean the whole works because i've i've lived in an apartment for so long
i've never had that kind of equipment
so that was that was interesting to go down there
and and get all that kind of stuff
yeah
right
right
so this has been uh this has been an experience for me
and uh but i i can't wait until we have uh uh some more time to get out there in the front yard
and and really do
uh you know a lot of landscaping because i want to cut all the the trees that they or the little shrubs that they have because some of them are like um they have the new uh green leaves
i don't if it's getting green up there where you are uh but they're almost fully [blossomed] and but there are like sides of them where there are like whole dead uh portions of the shrubs and uh so i've been debating of whether or not just to cut out the dead portions or you know just to take it all out and i think i've pretty well decided i'm just going to take it all out and start all over again
i'm just going to get the little baby shrubs the little baby ones you know that take several years to grow
there um well it's not too bad
i mean i i thought they were pretty reasonable
but i don't know
i have nothing really to compare it with uh you know four or five dollars for a for a [shrub] i don't know
and uh i hadn't really wanted to get that many you know to put out there
i i much prefer flowers
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow
it's true
it's true just picking up the equipment that i have you know
and i didn't blink an [eyelash] that's what got to me when the man
you know said
and that will five hundred and something dollars you know with my my big new lawn mower and stuff
i was just okay
you know
so yeah
you're right
you're right
you can
i think you can go through quite a bit of money
i think it depends too where you buy it from
if you buy it from a nursery or um we have like home depot here
i don't know if you have that there
yeah
local
uh_huh
there you go
that's right
that's true
i understand that
well it was nice talking to you
well thank you
oh okay
talk to you
yeah
this is actually a duplex that we're in
so
and it's rented we're looking into buying a house
but um the landlord is supposed to do the yard work although he doesn't do it any frequency every once in a while
he comes around
so in the meantime we have our own lawn mower
and we probably do it a little more than him
but we don't do a whole lot since it's a rental property
we've added a few things like around the patio and i've tried to get a few shrubs to grow around here
but since it's you know rental we haven't spent a whole lot of time and effort in trying to do landscaping we just kind of maintain what's here and mow the grass and trim and that kind of stuff when it's needed
you mean the type of grass
um what kind of a grass we have oh
saint augustine yeah
it's bermuda in the back
it's the kind that has those you know grows [sideways] yeah
that stuff
well the problem has been in the winter of um
eighty nine
yeah
a lot of it got [zapped] and it's it's slow coming back like our landlord didn't really replant any
last year
a lot of the front lawn looks pretty bad
and he didn't redo anything
so it's it's coming back a little bit now
oh really
it was very mild mild winter yeah
uh_huh
um
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you back up to it on the south side or the east side
oh
oh okay
because we had one of our uh a person similar [stature] to from the legal department
mel sharp he lives around in that area too
he lives on [whiteman] place i think
okay
yeah
yeah
okay
okay
um
oh
wow
we got a couple of big trees out front
um i guess right along our street there used to be one of the um lines
i guess there was fields here many many years ago cotton fields or something
and
yeah
well we have a lot of trees that that go across our front yards
that are very old that must have been like where the line was in between the fields
so we have a couple of huge trees out front
that's pretty nice
no trees really in the back
almost two years
no
not yet
we've only been married two years
oh
oh
uh nearly every week
uh_huh
yeah
that's right
we never did this watering stuff
everybody waters yeah
uh philadelphia area
eight years
that's a long time
uh_huh
and i was never called that until i came here
and i i was just taken [aback] by that
well i keep reminding these people that it's good thing we came down here and got some changes made like shopping on sunday
i said it's a little hard to do everything on saturday no pass no play uh kind of thing
i said you know we had that for years in ohio and pennsylvania
uh pretty much
and our landlord always asks us to uh continue doing that
even though we pay for the water because of you know foundation problems
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
um
oh yeah
oh
uh_huh
um
yeah
yeah
um each side has three bedrooms and two baths
living room and then a big uh kitchen that has uh dining area in it
so each side is like seventeen hundred square feet
uh ohio state
well hi bob
hi
um my lawn and garden
well that that's quite a topic because uh basically my husband takes care of it
um but what he's done is he's done a raised garden in the back yard
because that we don't have dirt around here you understand that
it's it's [sludge] it's it's mud it's [cruddy] so you know instead of uh trying to break every [rototiller] that we ever rented um we've just decided to do the raised garden
and it works out great he just built like a twelve by eight box out of um lumber that's you know the lumber and it's i guess it's maybe oh say eighteen inches wide
so it makes a really nice box set that on top of the dirt
and then worked and worked and worked with the soil
i mean bag after bag from wolfe nursery to uh fill it up
but over the years it has produced some of the best vegetables and garden um you know type things that
boy
it's been really great
and right now we have tomatoes out there and we've got you know have [eggplant] we're growing corn corn grows great here
so um
we really enjoy that a lot
oh
right
it's it's amazing they come up
well someone told me they they come in the in the uh packs you know the seed packages that's where the bugs come from
yeah
oh those
oh yeah
we've given up on those ourselves
yeah
i guess we've got an early early grow variety or something like that
and they're just now you know starting to turn red
so
hopefully before all this heat hits
we'll have some tomatoes
uh_huh
i know what you mean green peppers grow like crazy too around here
right
yeah
definitely
right
right
uh_huh
yeah
i think that'd be really pretty really nice
i i think that asian [jasmine] just is so aggressive it'll take no time at all to [surround] that tree
and probably your house and your back yard and your pool
the way it goes
oh
oh
oh
oh that would be a good idea
yeah
yeah
well that you know one project we're looking at is we're building a deck out back and we want to put a tree in and we've been looking around and maybe you could you know suggest something
but um the tree that we've sort of you know come upon is a [bradford] pear and we wanted it for shade and we wanted it you know for the leaf and um that's you know
right
it it's yeah it's ornamental right
that's true
oh red bud
uh_huh
that would be a great shade tree then
uh_huh
um
but as long as you mow the grass around
well you said it was around rocks
but oh
well that's just in the springtime too isn't it
oh
yeah
oh that's interesting get to know all these things
leaning away from
well that's interesting
yeah
i know that um we've done some other things with the grass and trying to you know get the right combination of grass here
because it's well we ours was a model house
so when they set it up
they had like these cement walkways across the front yard
and they had planted bermuda and then when they took the cement walkways out they stuck in um what is that saint augustine stuff
and i am a transplant here from the north myself
and so when i saw that saint augustine i said oh weeds
and i spent i mean weeks just pulling it up bag by bag until i went to the nursery one day and found out they were selling it by plugs you know
and i could have made some money on all those big huge black bags of stuff
i'd thrown out
so we're trying to um after this winter we had a lot of winter kill and hopefully you know some of the bermuda will take over and because i really like that grass
yeah
that
yeah [grubs] uh_huh
oh i just i just mow the lawn that's about all i ever do
um not really to speak of
um when i was little
we used to use uh like a chicken manure and cover the whole lawn with it
and then uh plant uh bermuda mostly
um we had monkey grass
and a wax leaf [ligustrums] well the it's really bad here because the last couple of years the freeze has been real bad
so i had to hack them off a little bit
and um and it left most of them dead
in a lot of places it
they just killed them right off
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
um not very much
um just um i had some hanging uh flowers in the on the porch
and uh and a few plants on the inside
that's about it
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
they have a they have a mulching blade now it cuts the cuts the grass up real fine and you don't have to you don't you can't even see it when it falls into the grass
it it just [penetrates] right through to the ground
well i don't know exactly what it does
but it cuts
the grass a lot [finer] than than uh the old mowers used to do
uh it's a special blade
i mean they have mulching mowers but then they have a uh mulching attachment too that you can put on other mowers i think i think it's double [edged] and it cuts it back and forth
huh
uh no
that's about it
nice talking to you
well yes and no
we live um on a cul de sac
and we're at the end
so we kind of have like two yards so to speak
and um it's really tough in the summer time mowing because we just have so much yard to to uh take care of
no
we don't that's on our wish list one of these days
but that's how we get our exercise is get out there with the mower
and what we did this uh past summer was we tried to because we're doing
we do it the mulching rather than bag it and all
and uh we try to do it about twice a week
so that was really quite a chore
oh my
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well that that makes sense though
right
the actual maintenance of the yard
well see that's what that's also on our wish list
we um couple of years ago we landscaped our our whole front yard
and um my husband has lived in the house for several years
and we finally decided well we're just going to go in and redo everything
and we did that
and we debated at the time about putting in you know sprinkler system
like in the in the flower beds
and we thought well when we do it
we're just going to do in the flower beds
and the whole yard
uh_huh
uh_huh
well speaking of termites we had those this past summer
yeah
right
right
oh
yeah
that's that's a tough thing we got a with our deal
we got about a five year warranty
and we
a place called t k o [exterminating] there he's out in rowlett
and i hope that he's going to stay around
right
right
yeah
i know that's the that's the thing
and we thought about that
and we thought well we're just going to kind of i guess take our chances and hope for end up on the better end of the deal
we've got uh yaupon hollies chinese hollies uh the monkey grass
yeah
well actually the first time we [relandscaped] we did it in the fall
they say that's the best time to do it
and we did it then
and we had indian [hawthorns] in which are so pretty
because they have the little you know uh blossoms on them
but those are not freeze tolerant and we had a freeze
and we had to replace we took about twenty plants back that next spring to the nursery
and we had lifetime guarantees so we just got new plants
and put those in
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
okay
uh_huh
oh is that right
okay
uh_huh
oh okay
yeah
because see that's what's such a pain
and the constant moving
well that's that's hopefully we did a lot of work on our house this past summer
and um we thought the next thing will be a sprinkler system
but that probably won't be for a couple of years now
because we really did a whole lot this summer spent too much money
so
yeah
well i know i hate it when people do that they'll sit there and fix up their house
and then they move and no
we're going to
we plan on staying here for a while
yeah
yeah
i know
yep
yep
well uh the most i've done so far is like uh landscaping you know bushes and shrubs and stuff like that
my wife likes to put out flowers and stuff in the flower beds so i'm always having to uh turn the flower beds for her every year
she puts the flowers and i try to maintain the bushes and trees and stuff
um
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
green beans
oh i see
um
yeah
oh yeah
i've heard of that
uh_huh
uh i see
i'd like to do vegetable garden
but i don't have the yard size for it
i'm in a zero lot line home
but uh we're thinking of moving this year
the interest rates are getting so low
we can't afford not to
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
so how do your tomatoes do down here pretty good
yeah
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
yeah
wow that's pretty good
yeah
uh you try fruit like uh strawberries and um
um
yeah
so vegetables are much easier then
yeah
yeah
yeah
well that sounds neat
you ever do anything like [melons] no
i remember one year at my parents' old house we grew a uh i guess a a squash plant you know turned out to be a pumpkin and uh it it bore pretty good size fruit and then one year we just let one of the [squashes] grow out produced a really huge pumpkin we're pretty surprised
and they just got lucky because they didn't do anything to it
no fertilizing or anything just kind of threw the seeds out there
but uh
that's pretty neat
yeah
this was down in san antonio
so i know
i think so too
i think so too
i you know i noticed here in dallas
well maybe it depends on where you live
but it's like the shrubs don't do as well
they don't grow as fast
yeah
yeah
i've got a tree that i planted that doesn't it's okay
but it doesn't you know my dad planted a tree two years after i planted mine and his is like three times as big as mine
i don't know what it is
i i think it is uh i have a feeling that the soil's not there's a lot of rocks in it because all around me i can see where the erosion is from from the creek beds
there's a lot of rock under me i have a feeling i'm i'm probably the roots are probably hitting rocks or something
yeah
i try to keep it going
but it's not getting very big i think in five years it grew like three or four feet
i know i
so how is your lawn and garden work
yeah
i understand that
it actually is snowing cold and wet
oh is he okay
not so much anymore
i'm i'm getting older
i'm fifty two now
so i've just uh i've sort of slowed down you know we use this rather than do it ourselves as far as fertilizing
we utilize a service
and i guess they do a an okay type of job
but uh i've let this little kid that lives behind us cut our grass just a little bit this past year i think i'm going to let him do it all this year just i work uh i'm out of town quite a bit
and i come home and seems like every friday that's what i have to face on saturday is doing my lawn
so i just stopped doing that
right
oh i understand
yeah
yeah
we have a problem about every other year with weeds it it appear that every other year a service can get rid of them
and uh but just about every other year they come back
it's a constant battle i tell you
right
i understand
i do too
so i'm i have the same problem
right
right
right
with a thirty five dollar bill
well we didn't use one year before last a service because we uh we had weeds like two years in a row
and you know when you have a service you don't expect that
so we stopped and i sort of did it myself year before last then this last summer
i'd went back to a service
and then went
but went to a new service
and they appear to be doing a better job
lawn doctor
and we used to use one in plano
and we switched to one that's more local
one of our friends bought the one in plano
they just didn't uh didn't do that good a job on our lawn
so we changed services
right
right
right
either rye or something
yeah
because see i have we have a lot of trees in our yard
so it's it's you know during the summer
it's bare under the trees
so i've planted planted a lot of winter rye to grow because that will grow in the summertime under trees
it's more of a it's a better shade grass
so now as as cold as it is out there and as rainy as it is we have you can see where we planted all the green grass
but as it's in the summer because that's the only green area in our lawn
all of our bermuda's all
brown
we have on the side yard
few years back
right
i'm always uh you know sometimes i'm sometimes i'm i'm over at home depot i'll just a grab a thing of grass seed and put it in the old spreader and just spread it real quick or throw it out in the areas where i think i need it
but overall i guess we have a pretty good stand of grass they say in the summertime the hotter it is the better the bermuda grows and course that supposedly quote will crowd out the weeds and everything
so i just
uh what kind of lawn and garden work do you wind up doing
uh_huh
okay
okay
okay
okay
this sounds kind of like uh uh uh slightly [jumbled] situation there
oh uh good income
yes
okay
yes
do do you enjoy gardening
yeah
it's real relaxation
uh my father ran a service station for thirty nine years
and his i mean when i was a kid i didn't realize how true
it was
but he always said that that was the best way he knew of to wind to wind down after a hard day at work was to come home and put in a hard day in the garden
and especially you know just [hoeing] just [hoeing] up the weeds it was that was therapy to him
i guess it still is
but uh somehow it didn't seem that way when i was like ten years old
but oh yeah
yeah
um we had about a quarter of an acre worth of lawn
between our my parents' house and our next door neighbors
they were a rather elderly couple so we cut their lawn for them
but uh there's about a half acre worth of garden
we kept so with the kids and dad we kept it worked up pretty well it was a lot of fun
as long as you know your heart was in it at least to some extent or another
well uh since i moved away from home
i got to live in a place that had a yard
so
not really
yes
we've actually gotten to the point where uh for a while i couldn't seem to keep anything alive
i couldn't even grow weeds in the house
but about three years ago my wife and i somehow or another seemed to have turned into green [thumbs] we got we [pinched] off a uh a couple of a [twigs] of a house plant of her mother's
we wrapped them in a wet paper towel and brought them home with us and put them in a jar of miracle grow and water and these this thing took off and we planted them
and now it's a plant uh the plant
we [pinched] them off of was kind of full and leafy but only about eight inches high off the top this thing's about five feet tall now
i don't know
it it's just you know some little broad leaf something or other which that uh it's it's got real thick thick [stalks] to it that like i say
there's a couple of those [stalks] over five feet tall
but uh they're just growing like mad once we got that thing going
we wound up with about five or six other house plants that are all doing real well
some people gave us some [aloe] [vera] and it's it's doing well
i mean it's had
it's bad spots
but it it's had its rough times
but yeah
but it's doing real well now
um i brought her a uh a couple of i don't even know what they're called looks like overly large lawn grass
but it's just a broad leaf type of lawn kind of like a leaf on a stalk of corn
but uh [greener] short house plant
pardon
well it doesn't get a stalk it does
the leaves all come out of the center
it doesn't really
resemble corn other than the shape of the leaf itself is about like the shape of a leaf a leaf on a stalk of corn
but it's not on a stalk it's just all out of the center
yeah
and uh it doesn't seem to flower any
and let's see
we've got a little somebody gave us a [fichus] and uh when we first got it
no
well we came close we got really close
um when we first got it
she kept moving it back and forth from the front porch to the uh inside
and she never could quite decide where she wanted it inside
and it shed almost all its leaves
really
i like it
i like um um working with flowers and stuff like that
oh just mowing the yard
that's probably why you hate it so much
uh_huh
i kind of enjoy working out in the yard
i enjoy working out in the yard
i mean in the summertime it's hard here because it gets so hot
you have to like get up at six in the morning if you're going to mow the yard and not faint while your doing it
yeah
no
no
i'm married
well we both do
sometimes
well we're we're moving to a new house and so we'll have to get started over there
decide what we're going to plant and everything at the old house we had a lot of roses
yeah
it does get really hot here
uh_huh
yeah
we tried that
last year
and but we hadn't lived here in dallas for you know long enough to to remember that you have to do like um i have this sister who lives in florida
and she plants her garden in january
harvest in may
plant again in um late september
and then harvest like in december
yeah
that's right
because the summertime
you just can't grow anything
and we tried to plant in like end of march or april and everything just [toasted] i mean it just
oh here it gets so hot
i mean this stuff
just burns to a crisp what
probably late january
why
what are you just as soon as it stops freezing
because you know i mean last summer
the only way you could keep something keep a keep a garden growing last summer was to water it all day long
every day because it would just it would just burn to a crisp oh yeah
uh_huh
yeah
why did he make you do it
well so okay
you need to get married and have kids
and then when they're big enough you can have them
go do the yard and you can do what you want to do
no
but he will be
yeah
why
i didn't seem to have that experience
i mean they were already there
but we just fed them and watered them
no
oh well like i said we tried last year
but we didn't do it right
and it's going to be too late this year
by the time we get moved so we'll probably wait and maybe in the fall
we might plant a fall garden this year
but we're not going to try to do anything during the summertime because it is just too hot
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's what i said you know sometime during the summertime you've got to get up at six in the morning to do it before you know before it gets hot and one time last year i remember we were planning on doing that
and it was eighty degrees even then
oh it was just awful
and so humid
oh no
because were fixing to move
really
yeah
yeah
oh yeah
uh_huh
nice talking to you too
thanks
oh
thanks
uh we have a vegetable garden with a we have some onions potatoes
uh broccoli spinach lettuce radishes
yeah
we he we plant quite a bit
and we have the you know peach tree and a plum tree and so
uh well we just planted the plum tree this year
so we haven't uh haven't gotten anything off of that
hopefully this will be the first year for our peaches
we're hoping to get something off of that
so
oh
uh_huh
yeah
we uh
i i love [plums] and peach i just love all fruit you know
and it's hard to come you know the
i don't know the fruit we get down here at the store has just been pretty lousy lately
so
yeah
it's like
yeah
like where does all the good stuff go
yeah
where is it
i know they have to grow some of it
uh_huh
yeah
what are we
yeah
yeah
what's in the juice this is what i would put in juice uh_huh
that's so true
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
we got some bulbs
but we haven't gotten them planted uh my husband's uh been growing uh lots of flowers from seed
and all of his own plants under a a light he put out in the garage
to help keep them you know alive
and get them a good start
so we hope we have a lot of flowers this year
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
we don't have any pets
so
yeah
like my husband says we just have two kids
it's hard to keep them out of things let alone pets
oh no
that's no fun
uh_huh
oh you ought to you ought to send a videotape that and send it into america's home videos
yeah
that's right
you you know that could be worth ten thousand dollars
so that's right
yeah
that's right
you can buy lots of cat food with that
so or hire somebody to do your lawn
so then you don't have to worry about it
we have a big problem around here with [insect] problems you know fire ants and so that's it gets expensive around here to do a lawn because you're always you know buying the fertilizer and the you know the bug killers
and weed killers
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my husband just has to have it green has to be green
it's
oh that's nice
uh_huh
yeah
well we had a real warm day today and all the neighbors were out you know in their front yards doing their yard and it's a perfect day for it
yeah
i i love spring
i just love it
do you
oh not me
oh i don't
i i grew up in wyoming
and it's cold enough there for me
so
uh_huh
oh do you have a lot of that kind of weather there in north carolina
oh winter that wasn't oh
uh_huh
yeah
no
talking to my folks in wyoming they uh they were still hoping they get some more because if they don't they're going to have water problems this summer
so
uh_huh
that's right
they need the the snow for the water
so
uh_huh
and just dries everything out
uh_huh
oh well it sounds like you need to move back there
yeah
that's that's it
we'd like to be closer to family
but limits the job your welcome brittany yeah
but it's hard to make it being a [rancher] or farmer
what brittany okay
good [hon] sorry
oh yeah
she she was wanting uh_huh
yeah
i hear you just fine
oh
yeah
you doing lots of these calls
you work for t i
oh
oh okay
my husband works for t i
uh_huh
yeah
he works for them right now he's been there
almost six years now
oh wow
i had one of those too
it was a weather phone call
yeah
oh
oh well you really kind of have the same kind of weather
i had one from somebody that was up in new york
and they were out of their house because of the ice storm
yeah
they were living with families that would take them in
and
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
they couldn't even be in the house because they had no power
and everything
yeah
and here we were i mean i talked to her
we had just gotten over a ninety four degree day
so we really had a lot to compare so
oh i
she's talking to my husband
i think so
yeah
so
oh yeah
that's what she said they they were going to the governor was going to try to have it declared a disaster area
what
uh_huh
oh
yeah
it really is
yeah
it seems like you work hard
and something else goes wrong
nothing's forever
i guess
oh that's what it is with us too
you just like get so frustrated you get something about ready [ripe] and there goes the bugs
uh_huh
or hail yeah
it just you know
uh_huh
oh my word
oh was it
we grew cantaloupe last year
and that's how they were just [tasteless] you couldn't even eat them
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
you have to be so careful when you buy at the stores
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
nope
you don't it's hard to pick them
oh yeah
the oranges here look disgusting
so
all right now since i'm from the great midwest north you know we're right on lake erie
uh i'm sure our climates are much different than yours are typically today
we've got uh rain we're [forecasting] a little bit of sleet and uh which means
i'm not going to do any lawn and gardening today
that's for sure
so i don't know what's the weather down there
and
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's not
it's supposed to be white
how about
i send you a little bit
uh_huh
well i have that
i still have that we have mums and [geraniums] that are still holding their own out there
uh a lot of the other ones i've i've already had to pull out uh at that point i'm ready to start putting in uh some bulbs i waiting for a decent some decent weather for that
i've got uh about two hundred bulbs
i've got to put in
but uh i have the uh mine is a new home
and we just really did the landscaping this year
so i've got about all the gardening
i want for the year
so i'll be anxious to to let it rest for a little bit
but uh somebody i talked to last week they said they had the uh they had problems doing some of the work down there because they they really had some heat hanging on
uh_huh
yeah
all right
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh i see
uh_huh
that's very okay
that's very very different than ours
because ours we get into a lot of combinations of rye and kentucky blue
and uh plus the usual amount of crabgrass and weeds and everything else that pops through and uh but we've had a a terrible drought this year
and everybody is going through the same kind of problems in fact we developed on a new lawn we developed what they call rust and it's a fungus which is very very rare but our whole area
they're all new homes and new lawns and it was it was very very much in evidence this year everything turns yellow
well it just turns yellow where it shouldn't and you walk across walk across the lawn and your shoes will actually come out rust colored
no
it's a it's a fungus and they claim that it is caused by stress to the lawn it
it won't kill the lawn
but it sure doesn't do much for the looks of the lawn and uh the alternative is a lot of uh nitrogen [overpowering] with nitrogen fertilizer and certain chemicals but everybody is so chemical shy anymore that we [steered] clear of it and hopefully you know come come spring
it will be cleared up and everything will be back to normal
uh_huh
oh yeah
uh_huh
do you enjoy lawn work
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that sounds nice cedar lake
i'm not uh
oh i see
okay
okay
alright
okay
uh so what kind of uh uh piece of property
have you got
uh_huh
well uh i uh up here we don't have too much trouble with crab grass or anything like that uh uh we've uh we rent the house that we live in
but we got a pretty large piece of uh land that we live on
even though it's very close in to washington d c
and so most of the work that we have to do involves mowing the lawn and uh uh uh my sweetheart that i live with does a lot of flower gardening and stuff around the house she gets a lot of pleasure from that
uh well it changes from year to year
and she is thinking this year
she is going to get into bulbs and that sort of thing
but most of the sorts of things that she has grown in the past have been uh i guess wild flowers and uh some stuff that our neighbors sort of brings over periodically she has also she likes things like [hollyhocks] and peonies and uh-oh
what else has she got oh the other things that she is really into is morning glories and uh in the summer time we have morning glories just all over the house
it's great
all different colors
yeah
it's a lot of fun
it's real pleasant
in fact our next door neighbor when christmas time is here couldn't resist giving us a uh set of coffee cups that had morning glories all over them
and uh she she found them and said oh i just had to buy them for you
but we are also really into vegetable gardening
actually
yeah
actually we do we don't have any uh any uh you know [varmints] or anything like that that tend to bother the garden
but we do have a lot of trouble with insects particularly [caterpillars] uh we have had very very poor luck with uh all of the core crops and like uh uh cabbage and and uh broccoli and cauliflower and that sort of thing
uh_huh
well that's uh exactly what we have done and you're advice is is dead on in our experiences
in fact we have what works even better than [lime] is [dialtamatious] earth uh
yeah
well uh jackie got hold of a huge box of it so much of it that i dare say that we'll probably still using still be using it five years from now she went out to some uh pool supply place and got this huge box of it
and it's really big
and she came home with it
and she was real proud and she said okay well we've got a life time supply now
so we've got no excuse
and uh
well we uh have uh i guess in the last two or three years
we have discovered that we're fond of hot peppers and so uh we grow tomatoes down one side of the house where we get a lot of sun
and then in our regular garden plot this past uh couple of years we've grown a lot of different varieties of hot peppers
yes
which of course are our favorites
and uh but we have also grown a lot of real uh uh hot uh smaller varieties
like [tys] and uh
yeah
yeah
the cayenne
and we have even grown some little funny uh uh peppers and i have never been sure
one of them i believe is called chili [tepid] and the other one is called [pequine] and uh they're they're little tiny hot things that we she takes them inside
and she dries them and then we eat and [nibble] on for weeks
they are little green literally pea size peppers
they're just little tiny guys
and they dry up even smaller than they are when they're they're you know fresh food
on the uh on the plant
but the plants are just incredibly [prodigious] they just produce [zillions] of them uh
uh all kinds of dishes
like i say we
grind them up and uh we freeze some of them
and then use them in [stews] and uh whenever we make egg dishes or anything like that
we tend to uh to put some on it
it's just incredible
but uh the number of ways that we come up to use them
and uh it's it's funny
i mean we were laughing at our [selves] one night because we uh we realized that uh we had uh we were having it with every meal
okay
do you um have a garden
uh_huh
do you enjoy working out in the yard
uh_huh
uh_huh
i have some roses out in my backyard too
and they've done real well i was surprised um
we had some in virginia
and they were real hard to keep up with
but seems like they like the texas climate better
right
yeah
we built up our we built up boxes and put them in that so that they would drain because our soil is so bad where i live
do you live in texas
or
plano oh yeah
i'm out in rowlett
and we have that brown clay soil
and it's real hard to grow anything here
uh_huh
oh that's accommodating yeah
right
we've got a few things too
it's hard to tell if they'll come back or not
well that's good
we we planted three pecan trees out front
and every one of them died
i told my husband this is the last one
if it dies we're going to something else
but we dug a hole about six times as big as it needs to be and filled it with all kinds of compost and pine needles and everything else we could think of
hopefully it'll drain this year
yeah
yeah
it's hard to find something that'll take the heat as well as the freezing
that we get down here i have a few little flowers i plant around the trees out front
i've enjoyed doing those
i put uh pansies out in the winter
and they pretty much last all winter
and then i put uh moss rose out in the summer and it just goes crazy don't really have to do anything to it
puts a lot of color out there all year
right
oh yeah
those do pretty well here
don't they
we've got my husband put a little row of those out in the backyard to kind of make a little cut so that the kids wouldn't come marching through the yard and everything
yeah
right
yeah
the only thing i don't like about them is weeding around them because they get those sharp pricky things get in your hands
oh really
yeah
we do it
my husband does most of the mowing and edging and all that stuff
yeah
we get something on the door about every week
uh_huh
yeah
really
oh our neighbor has a lawn service come and do his and i don't think it looks any better than what my husband does
so i'm not really tempted to do that either
if it
yeah
i can mow the back yard
but there's something about the grass in our front yard is so dense that the mower wheels just kind of bog down in there
and i can not push it
oh
really
huh
i would like a self propelled one i think that that might make it easier
yeah
ours is not that big
but like i said if i had to mow the front i'd be stuck because i can't get it to move
oh
oh i'm sure
yeah
that's pretty large area
really did
people up there edge as as strictly and stuff as they do down here
yeah
yeah
i lived in a town it was a college town in virginia
and i mean people kept their lawns mowed but they sure didn't get into it
like they do here in texas wasn't a source of pride or something like it is down here
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's hard
i know we tried to do our landscaping out front
my husband tilled it up in the fall
and then we've been waiting on some guy supposed to be getting us some edging for like ten cents a foot instead of about a dollar
and uh he has never got it to us
so it just sits out there kind of dug up and doesn't look too good
so i can't say anything about anybody else's
yeah
it'd seem like they'd want to just to uh get some shade and keep their houses
a little bit cooler in the summer
yeah
yeah
yeah
did they not put any in in your neighborhood
we had two trees in the front of our yard and then one of them died
and so that's where we keep putting that pecan that keeps dying
we have uh i think it's a silver leaf maple or something like that
that's hung on out there
right
yeah
hope ours continues to live
it's been there about four
i guess almost four years now
so maybe it's established enough that it will go on and survive
i like an oak oak trees
yeah
my um husband's father has a place out in east texas
so he's always digging up little red oaks and things like that and trying to bring them back and start them
but
so far we haven't had much luck
uh_huh
oh
oh
yeah
well that's too bad
we've got all of our trees from calloway's and luckily they'll take them back any time for any reason
if they die
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i know they guy at wolfe told us they cut back on the tree warranty like six months or less
but calloway's has kept theirs forever
so
yeah
yeah
i don't know
we haven't bought
uh_huh
we haven't bought any shrubs yet
hopefully i think we've almost waited this too late this year now to start putting in anything of any size
yeah
oh really
it wouldn't matter if we plant them when it was starting to get warmer
root stimulator yeah
oh well that's good to know maybe there's still hope for our front yard this summer then
uh_huh
yeah
i've i've noticed that they haven't had anything great
right
yeah
yeah
last year we thought some were dead
and finally they started leafing out again at the bottom
so we just cut them way back and was able to save them
but this year
they look even worse
uh_huh
yeah
huh
ours haven't done anything yet this year
yeah
i like crepe myrtles they really add a lot of color
oh we haven't had that problem yet they're pretty ours are pretty small
oh really
yeah
oh does it grow along a fence or something
oh
uh_huh
okay
do you um have a garden
uh_huh
do you enjoy working out in the yard
uh_huh
uh_huh
i have some roses out in my backyard too
and they've done real well i was surprised um
we had some in virginia
and they were real hard to keep up with
but seems like they like the texas climate better
right
yeah
we built up our we built up boxes and put them in that so that they would drain because our soil is so bad where i live
do you live in texas
or
plano oh yeah
i'm out in rowlett
and we have that brown clay soil
and it's real hard to grow anything here
uh_huh
oh that's accommodating yeah
right
we've got a few things too
it's hard to tell if they'll come back or not
well that's good
we we planted three pecan trees out front
and every one of them died
i told my husband this is the last one
if it dies we're going to something else
but we dug a hole about six times as big as it needs to be and filled it with all kinds of compost and pine needles and everything else we could think of
hopefully it'll drain this year
yeah
yeah
it's hard to find something that'll take the heat as well as the freezing
that we get down here i have a few little flowers i plant around the trees out front
i've enjoyed doing those
i put uh pansies out in the winter
and they pretty much last all winter
and then i put uh moss rose out in the summer and it just goes crazy don't really have to do anything to it
puts a lot of color out there all year
right
oh yeah
those do pretty well here
don't they
we've got my husband put a little row of those out in the backyard to kind of make a little cut so that the kids wouldn't come marching through the yard and everything
yeah
right
yeah
the only thing i don't like about them is weeding around them because they get those sharp pricky things get in your hands
oh really
yeah
we do it
my husband does most of the mowing and edging and all that stuff
yeah
we get something on the door about every week
uh_huh
yeah
really
oh our neighbor has a lawn service come and do his and i don't think it looks any better than what my husband does
so i'm not really tempted to do that either
if it
yeah
i can mow the back yard
but there's something about the grass in our front yard is so dense that the mower wheels just kind of bog down in there
and i can not push it
oh
really
huh
i would like a self propelled one i think that that might make it easier
yeah
ours is not that big
but like i said if i had to mow the front i'd be stuck because i can't get it to move
oh
oh i'm sure
yeah
that's pretty large area
really did
people up there edge as as strictly and stuff as they do down here
yeah
yeah
i lived in a town it was a college town in virginia
and i mean people kept their lawns mowed but they sure didn't get into it
like they do here in texas wasn't a source of pride or something like it is down here
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's hard
i know we tried to do our landscaping out front
my husband tilled it up in the fall
and then we've been waiting on some guy supposed to be getting us some edging for like ten cents a foot instead of about a dollar
and uh he has never got it to us
so it just sits out there kind of dug up and doesn't look too good
so i can't say anything about anybody else's
yeah
it'd seem like they'd want to just to uh get some shade and keep their houses
a little bit cooler in the summer
yeah
yeah
yeah
did they not put any in in your neighborhood
we had two trees in the front of our yard and then one of them died
and so that's where we keep putting that pecan that keeps dying
we have uh i think it's a silver leaf maple or something like that
that's hung on out there
right
yeah
hope ours continues to live
it's been there about four
i guess almost four years now
so maybe it's established enough that it will go on and survive
i like an oak oak trees
yeah
my um husband's father has a place out in east texas
so he's always digging up little red oaks and things like that and trying to bring them back and start them
but
so far we haven't had much luck
uh_huh
oh
oh
yeah
well that's too bad
we've got all of our trees from calloway's and luckily they'll take them back any time for any reason
if they die
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i know they guy at wolfe told us they cut back on the tree warranty like six months or less
but calloway's has kept theirs forever
so
yeah
yeah
i don't know
we haven't bought
uh_huh
we haven't bought any shrubs yet
hopefully i think we've almost waited this too late this year now to start putting in anything of any size
yeah
oh really
it wouldn't matter if we plant them when it was starting to get warmer
root stimulator yeah
oh well that's good to know maybe there's still hope for our front yard this summer then
uh_huh
yeah
i've i've noticed that they haven't had anything great
right
yeah
yeah
last year we thought some were dead
and finally they started leafing out again at the bottom
so we just cut them way back and was able to save them
but this year
they look even worse
uh_huh
yeah
huh
ours haven't done anything yet this year
yeah
i like crepe myrtles they really add a lot of color
oh we haven't had that problem yet they're pretty ours are pretty small
oh really
yeah
oh does it grow along a fence or something
oh
uh_huh
okay
do you um have a garden
uh_huh
do you enjoy working out in the yard
uh_huh
uh_huh
i have some roses out in my backyard too
and they've done real well i was surprised um
we had some in virginia
and they were real hard to keep up with
but seems like they like the texas climate better
right
yeah
we built up our we built up boxes and put them in that so that they would drain because our soil is so bad where i live
do you live in texas
or
plano oh yeah
i'm out in rowlett
and we have that brown clay soil
and it's real hard to grow anything here
uh_huh
oh that's accommodating yeah
right
we've got a few things too
it's hard to tell if they'll come back or not
well that's good
we we planted three pecan trees out front
and every one of them died
i told my husband this is the last one
if it dies we're going to something else
but we dug a hole about six times as big as it needs to be and filled it with all kinds of compost and pine needles and everything else we could think of
hopefully it'll drain this year
yeah
yeah
it's hard to find something that'll take the heat as well as the freezing
that we get down here i have a few little flowers i plant around the trees out front
i've enjoyed doing those
i put uh pansies out in the winter
and they pretty much last all winter
and then i put uh moss rose out in the summer and it just goes crazy don't really have to do anything to it
puts a lot of color out there all year
right
oh yeah
those do pretty well here
don't they
we've got my husband put a little row of those out in the backyard to kind of make a little cut so that the kids wouldn't come marching through the yard and everything
yeah
right
yeah
the only thing i don't like about them is weeding around them because they get those sharp pricky things get in your hands
oh really
yeah
we do it
my husband does most of the mowing and edging and all that stuff
yeah
we get something on the door about every week
uh_huh
yeah
really
oh our neighbor has a lawn service come and do his and i don't think it looks any better than what my husband does
so i'm not really tempted to do that either
if it
yeah
i can mow the back yard
but there's something about the grass in our front yard is so dense that the mower wheels just kind of bog down in there
and i can not push it
oh
really
huh
i would like a self propelled one i think that that might make it easier
yeah
ours is not that big
but like i said if i had to mow the front i'd be stuck because i can't get it to move
oh
oh i'm sure
yeah
that's pretty large area
really did
people up there edge as as strictly and stuff as they do down here
yeah
yeah
i lived in a town it was a college town in virginia
and i mean people kept their lawns mowed but they sure didn't get into it
like they do here in texas wasn't a source of pride or something like it is down here
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it's hard
i know we tried to do our landscaping out front
my husband tilled it up in the fall
and then we've been waiting on some guy supposed to be getting us some edging for like ten cents a foot instead of about a dollar
and uh he has never got it to us
so it just sits out there kind of dug up and doesn't look too good
so i can't say anything about anybody else's
yeah
it'd seem like they'd want to just to uh get some shade and keep their houses
a little bit cooler in the summer
yeah
yeah
yeah
did they not put any in in your neighborhood
we had two trees in the front of our yard and then one of them died
and so that's where we keep putting that pecan that keeps dying
we have uh i think it's a silver leaf maple or something like that
that's hung on out there
right
yeah
hope ours continues to live
it's been there about four
i guess almost four years now
so maybe it's established enough that it will go on and survive
i like an oak oak trees
yeah
my um husband's father has a place out in east texas
so he's always digging up little red oaks and things like that and trying to bring them back and start them
but
so far we haven't had much luck
uh_huh
oh
oh
yeah
well that's too bad
we've got all of our trees from calloway's and luckily they'll take them back any time for any reason
if they die
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i know they guy at wolfe told us they cut back on the tree warranty like six months or less
but calloway's has kept theirs forever
so
yeah
yeah
i don't know
we haven't bought
uh_huh
we haven't bought any shrubs yet
hopefully i think we've almost waited this too late this year now to start putting in anything of any size
yeah
oh really
it wouldn't matter if we plant them when it was starting to get warmer
root stimulator yeah
oh well that's good to know maybe there's still hope for our front yard this summer then
uh_huh
yeah
i've i've noticed that they haven't had anything great
right
yeah
yeah
last year we thought some were dead
and finally they started leafing out again at the bottom
so we just cut them way back and was able to save them
but this year
they look even worse
uh_huh
yeah
huh
ours haven't done anything yet this year
yeah
i like crepe myrtles they really add a lot of color
oh we haven't had that problem yet they're pretty ours are pretty small
oh really
yeah
oh does it grow along a fence or something
oh
uh_huh
are you a player  
has it  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
i i haven't played in about two years  
and then i went out two weeks ago with the guys here  
i work at t i  
and i played in a tournament out there  
and i shot a net fifty nine  
they were kind of little upset  
i guess i laid off long enough to get rid of all my bad habits  
i have a hard time [inventing] shots you know  
let's go around this tree and   you know try a slice through a hook here  
and i can't do that  
so  
i finally got out  
and i've been watching quite a few videos  
i had not been able to play  
so i took out a few videos and watched them for a while  
and i i hope i'm on the right track  
shot a career low eighty nine so and my handicap is twenty nine  
i like that  
really  
yeah  
i've tried to get my wife  
i bought her a set of clubs four years ago  
she hasn't even swung them  
but   she wants to get into it now after i came home and won the tournament the other day  
she's   she's ready to get off into it  
but you know i like i just like getting out being in the outdoors  
and i'm a hunter and fisher anyway  
but you know  
you know at least i can get out and play a few hours of golf  
and it's not going to cost me an arm and a leg really  
and i you know i walk  
i don't ride  
so  
you know i get a little exercise there too  
so  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's pretty nice  
we played out here a couple of times in the middle of the winter when my parents came down and what not  
they were amazed  
you know here it is sixty five degrees  
we're out playing golf  
and they're freezing cold back there  
so   but i uh actually i picked it up when i was in high school on the same as a p e course you know  
when i got into the service i got into it  
and now when i come out here i just kind of let it go  
and then one one of the guys mentioned to me at work one day if i played golf  
and i said well yeah you know  
i've got my clubs  
but i haven't swung them in quite a few years  
and then i got into it and then back out of it  
and it just seems like every couple of years i get back in there  
you know i really enjoy it  
it's really nice  
yeah  
yeah  
you don't want to go out and get beat to death  
but  
no  
and then you know we've got some guys here that they are you know four and five [handicappers]  
and they don't like to play with me because i'm too slow for them  
so   you know but get somebody around your own handicap and you can just [mosey] on out for three or four hours and have a good time  
and i've you know i've  
never never yet have i walked up  
now i've walked up a few times on the golf course by myself with nobody else to play with  
and never yet have i met anybody on the golf course that wouldn't allow me to join their [twosome] or [threesome]  
they are always friendly  
sure come on out you know  
and they don't mind if you make a mistake  
they don't mind saying well you know let me tell you how to do that or teach you how to do that or  
you know it's it's pretty nice and friendly out there  
and you can't find that in all sports  
yeah  
yeah  
you need to  
yeah  
oh yeah  
we we have one down here in the summertime  
uh it runs from like five o'clock to seven thirty   or eight o'clock you know because it doesn't get dark until nine thirty or ten  
and we play in the summertime out here  
we get a mixed league in  
and that's what i'm trying to get her ready for  
it's going to start well when we change time back whenever that is   next month i guess  
and it will start then  
and you know we had a lot of girls out there a couple of years ago  
and they were just starting to learn  
and you know they were shooting a hundred hundred and twenty  
but they were you know  
now they're down into the hundreds   nineties  
so it won't take her long   you know  
and it's something we can do together  
so well she doesn't do much hunting  
she could care less about that  
she's does a little fishing  
but you know golf would give her the exercise  
she'd be outside  
give her something to do that we both enjoy  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
all right  
yeah  
and it's you know it's a game that you don't  
like bowling you know you feel bad if you bowl a hundred  
but if you shoot a hundred in golf you know  
you don't have to be an expert to play  
any [novice] can pick up a club and learn how to hold one and learn how to do it and do it right  
so you know you don't have to be an expert in any aspect of it at all  
yeah  
yeah  
and when you know when i first got back into it i used to get mad because i knew i could do something  
and i didn't get it done  
you know  
and i just well i need to slice this ball around here  
i naturally slice anyway  
now you know the ball will go straight  
and i go  
i never broke a club or anything  
but you know   i'd get upset about it sometimes  
and now i guess you know being in my forties i just kind of [mellowed] out a little bit  
i don't get upset any more  
so and  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
i guess i'll go back to work  
all right  
see you later  
bye bye  
uh i i think i am  
it's it's been a while now  
yeah  
i've uh-oh  
just recently i got married  
and we bought a house  
we're about fifty yards from the golf course  
but unfortunately the house is taking up my time  
so it's been uh it's been almost a year i guess since i've actually uh swung a club for a purpose  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's that's great  
yeah  
now it's uh like i say it's been a while for me too  
i uh i've got my wife motivated about it um  
and uh i think that's probably going to be one of the next investments is get her get her a set of clubs  
and uh we'll get out of the driving range and and get some interest built up  
and hopefully we can uh we can start in  
really  
well great great  
that's good  
yeah  
same thing here  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's  
i've got the same attitude  
i uh i tell you  
i started  
i guess the first time i played golf has been probably about eight or ten years ago now when i was in college  
and uh i took uh i took it as a p e course and then kind of left it alone for a while  
and then finally got got into it when i was while i was still in school  
and since then uh we've made it um  
as as the friends start getting married and things like that we've made a tradition of uh having a a thursday um  
well have have probably like like a thursday night bachelor party and a friday golf day before the wedding  
and uh so it  
that's back in south dakota where i grew up  
and uh so that that's uh that's been my main my main involvement  
is it seems like i go home and play golf more than i do around here  
but uh   eventually i get people to come and visit me in dallas  
and then i'll show them we can play golf in the middle of winter when we can't do it back home  
yeah  
yep  
yep  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's right  
oh it is it's it's a lot of fun especially if you can find somebody that's uh that's got the same level of interest  
that seem to be the hardest   thing  
well about  
that's that's true of any sport you know  
if you want to play tennis or   racquetball  
right  
and and people don't want to play with somebody that they are going to beat every time you know  
and and uh  
uh_huh  
right  
that's right  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
well  
that that's that's so  
yeah  
that's absolutely right  
and you can gain a lot of ground doing that too if you if you know  
you gets you get in a [rut] if you do play a lot  
but you play with the same people you you aren't going to learn anything  
after a short period once you learn everything they've got to offer  
then   you've basically tapped your resources there  
but uh i'd like to uh eventually i'd like to work up if if my wife does get interested and maybe get involved in a league in a in a mixed mixed [doubles] league or something like that  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
sure  
right  
well that's good   that's good that's sounds like a lot of fun  
yeah  
yeah  
it it sounds like we've got real similar situations  
i i i go home uh i've gone home every year now since i've moved to dallas to to go pheasant hunting  
and uh   um the the last time i i took my wife along  
and uh kind of the same situation  
she's she's up in the house and talked to my mother the whole time we were out hunting and stuff  
but   she'll definitely uh she'll make the trip for fishing   if that comes along  
but uh   it's it's interesting  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
well yeah  
i've i've kind of formed the attitude that you know if i could just if i could pick two or three shots out uh out of my game every time and put them together on one hole then i do pretty good  
and then and i keep i keep [rationalizing] that well you know i can do it  
i just got to do it all at on the same hole  
and and then it will get better  
and you just keep going  
and in the meantime just enjoy what you're doing  
it it it really works that way  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
sure  
and well that's great  
well you bet  
okay  
sounds like it  
okay  
bye  
okay  
is uh that a sport you like to participate in  
uh_huh  
my husband likes golf also  
he's uh i guess he'd be a fanatic if he thought he could get away with it  
but he he limits it pretty good  
i um have tried to go out and play golf  
he would love it if i would go out and play with him  
but   i stand there and swing and swing  
and i can't even hit the ball  
yeah  
i don't either  
right  
oh so he's really into it  
wow  
oh  
yeah  
right  
more because of their personalities   than their [sportsman]  
right  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh he's interesting  
i like to watch him  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think you're right  
yeah  
i like to watch those skins games  
do you ever watch those where they just play for a certain you know  
for each hole they win they get the money   for it  
i think those are pretty exciting  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh really  
i sometimes wonder why men like it so much because they get so frustrated   and mad at themselves   when they don't do well  
my husband and his buddies are not very good  
they play like maybe once a month or less  
and so they all hit like in the low nineties  
and they think they're having a really good game  
so  
wow  
yeah  
that is good  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
something to stay active at   for a long time  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
and they can still get good at it  
well maybe that's what i'll do when i have time later on  
yeah  
uh_huh  
true  
right  
yeah  
or my favorite  
just ride around in the cart with him  
go somewhere really nice like hawaii and just   look at the golf course  
oh yeah  
but my husband's pretty tolerant  
so he's not too bad   to watch  
oh no  
yeah  
gosh  
now my husband has a temper  
but he doesn't seem to show it on the golf course  
he's because he'll talk about the other guys he plays with doing that   and how immature he thought it was and stuff  
so i guess he's real laid back about it  
he he'll come home though and he'll shoot when he was shooting in the hundreds  
and he'll tell me what a great day he had and about this great shot he made and everything  
yeah  
this one on this one hole  
did you have to listen to long stories about now on the seventeenth hole i hit it and went this way  
those are it's hard for me to   act nice about that when it goes on and on  
yes  
right  
and then they want to play another course that's not they're not a member of  
and other fees  
it really is high  
oh yeah  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
me either  
yeah  
at least you're just   you're competing against yourself i guess more than everybody else out there  
yeah  
that's   kind of the way i feel  
oh  
right  
no  
actually i'm a spectator  
and i'm a second hand spectator as a result of my first husband's or my late husband's interest in golf  
uh_huh  
i can't even play miniature golf well  
well there are just some things that we're good at and other things that we're not  
but i am very good at watching it on television  
and he was really uh enthusiastic about keeping up with the tournaments  
he could tell me exactly what day and what time of year and where the tournaments were going to be held and what the nature of the hole was and  
oh yeah  
he was a good golfer  
and as and did some you know instructions at the country club for a while  
but uh golf tended to be  
i am not really deeply involved in any following any of the sports  
but golf was one that i developed a working knowledge of a lot of the golfers  
and therefore i enjoyed following those particular players  
uh_huh  
well part of it was the personality and their [sportsmanship]  
another part of it was i'd pick one out that was different than what my husband was rooting for  
so   you know the [competitor]  
and i became involved in following his career  
and uh i know that that my husband  
tom [kite] was his fair haired boy  
and he thought he was spectacular  
i said whoa  
i'm not going to i'm not going to stay interested in him  
so i decided andy bean was good competition  
any time they both played why he was just real excited when tom was you know shown on the television  
and i followed andy bean  
we both followed lee [trevino] into the seniors  
he is  
he is a character   not just a golfer  
but he's quite a character  
and there are some really really wonderful people in the game of golf who do give wonderful role models  
and i think it's critical it's critical to have a good role model   in any field any sports  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i myself really have not seen a whole lot of point to the game of golf  
you hit a little ball  
you chase it  
you go find it  
and then you hit it again and lose it again  
and i know the whole point is to get it in that little bitty hole  
but seems to me like if they made the hole bigger it'd be easier  
oh i know  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
well my husband's average ran in the mid seventies  
so he wasn't bad  
he was pretty good  
but as far as [influencing] young people i think that that is uh that is one of the sports that you can carry into old age  
you can't play football at fifty five  
but it is a good healthy wholesome lifestyle uh  
anything can be warped  
but i think that that is one of the sports that's a good healthy way to to move into maturity   safely  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
and a lot of seniors a lot of elderly people don't even take up golf until they're you know in their later years  
that's right  
that's absolutely right  
and it's something that  
yeah  
when you're too old to do anything else   go play golf  
yeah  
but it's it's also something that husband and wife can participate in  
or you can both enjoy the same sport and participate in separate circles  
you know you can go to the country club together  
you can play with your friends  
he can play with his friends  
but you've both been out and exercised  
and you have enjoyed the day  
you bet  
you get a lot of exercise that way  
uh_huh  
well i'll tell you what if   if they're not real good golfers sometimes it is not fun to ride around and listen to their [exclamations] all day long  
uh_huh  
oh mine had a very short fuse  
if he did something bad he's liable to take that club and throw it as far as he can throw it  
he's replaced almost as many clubs as he has balls  
i mean just get so mad he'd just [wham] that club up against a tree and break that rascal  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i shot in the hundreds  
but i made this one good one  
uh_huh  
well one thing that is a is a drawback about it i think is the cost  
membership in the clubs is expensive  
the equipment is very expensive  
requires special shoes  
requires special you know special equipment  
there's so many  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
it can get very expensive  
and i can imagine what kind of costs are involved if you're going to try to go pro because you spend hours and hours and hours   practicing  
and they don't give those sessions away  
and nor do they give uh instructions away  
as a matter of fact a friend of mine asked me if i thought i'd be interested in golf  
i said i don't know  
i'll have to try it and see  
i've always watched it  
and he said well fine  
he said we'll just take you over to the course he lives near brookhaven   we'll just take you over to the course and get you some lessons and let you see if you like it  
if you do then we can go golf together  
oh whoa  
great  
i get to walk all around a little green field all day  
but those kinds of things happen though  
you you get a little taste of it  
and you say hey this is not bad  
and you really begin to develop an interest in it  
but i am not an athlete at all  
you know i'm always the one that got hit by the bat in baseball   and hung my [fingernails] in the net in volleyball  
so i am not an athlete  
maybe golf is a forgiving sport  
i don't know  
it doesn't appear to be  
uh_huh  
i really i i haven't really acquired an interest in it  
but i'm open to try anything   you know  
the one thing that is also detrimental as far i'm concerned my skin is very fair  
so i'm going to have to golf in the evening  
or i'm going to have to golf at a time when the heat of the day does not cook me  
and i don't think the  
okay  
there we go  
so do you play golf at all  
actually i don't  
no  
uh i uh when i was younger i played a little bit  
and i was horrible  
so i just stopped playing  
wow  
that is real good  
wow  
so you have been playing  
no  
actually i don't even know if i checked that or not to be perfectly honest um  
that seems to have been a mistake  
i don't know um  
yeah  
i have not played in a long time  
um when i was  
about five or six years ago my dad who plays every now and then took me out with him  
and and i basically um i had a horrible slice or hook  
i forget which one it was  
it wound up tossing the ball into the trees   virtually every time  
yes  
i was [slicing] actually  
and   as it turns out uh i went and took some lessons for awhile because i just i would lose so many balls and uh make it a horrible time for everybody  
i went and took some lessons  
and a i got a little bit better  
but i but then i sort of you know went went back to school and did not have time and this and that  
and and the only thing i do now is i occasionally go out to a driving range and hit a couple of balls and see what i can do  
and i   and i still have this slice  
i'm a graduate student  
yeah  
yes  
as a matter of fact um so i don't have time to do much else except for graduate work  
right  
so i hang around this way  
and i  
occasionally uh uh  
a bunch of us were pretty avid golfers   golfers so we will go out  
and we will we will we will play you know  
um     no  
i have i have very at the moment i have very little playing time  
when i when i go on vacation my father and i uh   play a little bit  
but i don't you know  
we play a par a par three nine hole course  
because    
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
right  
but those are uh still not you favorite huh  
uh wow  
you must be very busy  
um  
miniature golf there's my game uh  
miniature golf there you go putt putt  
uh  
i don't i don't i don't  
i may have actually i may have just checked random things  
i don't i don't recall anymore  
right  
yeah  
actually we have a very very um  
we had the uh  
well we had  
i haven't played around here too much  
we have a very good one called [locust] hill though  
there uh the  
yeah  
the l p g a comes here every year   the rochester international  
and then we had a p g a actually a very big p g a uh tour stop here last year  
and actually um they say the the  
i have not played the course  
but they say the course is very is is is pretty tough pretty challenging  
and it's um not only that  
but it's exceedingly well kept apparently  
because those are the comments i kept hearing from the pros you know  
they kept saying we hear you know on on television i  
but they keep saying it's just wonderful uh  
the course is so well maintained  
and you know it it it rained through half the um tournament so people had to  
but they still  
the grounds keepers were absolutely wonderful about   getting things back up again  
and this  
actually when when the um when the l p g a came here   i guess that was about a week and a half ago it was just it it takes over the whole town  
you know it's all over the news  
and   lots and lots of people take off work   to go   to go an watch the the uh ladies   play  
so i mean i think it's actually it's absolutely wonderful to see  
yeah  
uh  
it seems to be  
it seems a lot of people are really you know  
either um either you have not played it or or you you have played it  
and you sort of stink like me  
and you sort of play every now and then  
yeah  
yeah  
well same here i mean i'm a brown belt in karate at this point in time  
and uh   and and i can not and i can not hit a golf ball  
you know i  
right  
that's because he's probably doing what i do worrying about   is my head straight is my arm right   is this correct am i holding correctly stuff like that   yeah  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i have this nasty habit of of turning my head at the last second or   or just keeping my arm wrong  
is it  
right  
exactly  
exactly  
it's just like i i don't watch the ball die  
i have  
it took me a long time to learn to wait until the ball was in the air before i looked up  
oh driver  
yeah  
watch where it's going  
that that is certainly true  
thank you  
that's okay  
go ahead  
it's no big deal  
both  
i believe so  
i i i actually don't know  
i get a random reimbursement every now and then and don't really   don't really figure it out   until afterward  
oh really  
i have been doing this for awhile actually  
it seems like it's been a while  
and they just i just   get these random checks in the mail every now and then  
and  
my wife and i both do it as a matter of fact  
and we both just sort of get these random checks in the mail  
and   to be honest i i really have not been accounting  
i just sort of figured well it's going to work  
you know if it works it works  
so  
okay  
great  
yeah  
i do  
i'm a player  
i'm kind of embarrassed i'm talking to a man cause i'm sure that you are you play a lot more than i do  
oh really  
oh well my husband is is a very good golfer  
he has got like a six handicap  
so uh  
and he has been playing since we have been married for twenty two years  
so i had to start playing because he was you know such an avid golfer  
so i have been playing now  
well i have had clubs for twenty years you know  
but but i really enjoy it  
so i had to check that and and uh talk about it  
well have you played recently  
oh  
oh that's okay  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the slice goes to the right  
and the hook goes to the left  
i think  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's really a good thing to do  
so where   are you in your life  
i mean are you in school  
oh okay  
at the university of rochester  
oh great  
yeah  
yeah  
sure  
uh_huh  
and you don't   you don't have the length of the playing time that we do  
yes  
oh that's my favorite kind to play  
because for a woman it's really nice to play a par three course because   that's my i can't hit a driver very far  
and in fact i don't even like to use a driver  
i use a three iron off the tee   because i have more control over it  
and i can i can just have better contact with the ball that way  
so i'm still using a three iron  
and my husband is trying to get me into using a you   know like a high number wood   instead  
no  
it's not my favorite  
but i i uh i enjoy  
i i really do  
i think i'm going to like golf the older i get   and the more time i have to play  
i we have three teenage daughters  
one is  
yeah  
i'm very busy  
i have a part time job  
and and during the year i don't play much golf  
but but when i'm we are on vacation i love to play just like you said  
and we got to play in monterrey in california right you know along the pacific ocean this past spring  
and that was i told my husband that was the way to play you know  
that was  
if i could play there every time i want it was it was great  
a neat experience  
miniature golf is great  
yes  
well that's the thing my kids like to do that with you know on dates and stuff  
but golf is um  
we we probably are talking about golf because i did check it you know  
well yeah  
if you ever played  
i mean i feel like anybody that's ever played golf can talk about it  
and maybe if you can even talk about it if you if you have uh watched it on t v  
yeah  
tell me about your clubs up there  
what  
[locust] hill  
uh_huh  
right  
oh great  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
yes  
yeah  
to watch them  
yeah  
the ladies  
yeah  
i'm sure the people love golf up there like they do down here  
people are just  
golf is just  
it's just the coming thing  
i mean a lot of people are just crazy about it  
well   it's it's just such a difficult thing  
i mean it's i just i watch my husband  
and he's he was a professional athlete  
he he's a very good athlete  
and he's got the coordination that god given coordination  
and he just struggles   you know all the time to um to master this game  
oh my really  
yeah  
because it  
well i watch my husband swing  
and his swing you know like compared to the pros is so it's [ridged]  
it's like he's trying so hard it's not that flowing movement   you know  
yeah  
yeah  
or how far he's going to hit it i think you know  
and i worry about that  
i have just got to get this drive you know really far  
i have got to hit it  
so  
yeah  
yep  
or  
yeah  
turning your head is probably the most common thing for women   they say  
and you are always so anxious to see where it goes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i have to that especially even more so with a short iron than a long you know   than with a driver or something  
because those short irons it's just you want to look up   cause you are getting close to the green  
and you want to see it hit the green  
and you know that's why  
yeah  
so   i i don't know what i'm supposed to ask questions about  
am i supposed to ask questions about this whole procedure  
i know that  
well uh when i  
do you get get um reimbursed for the calls you make or the calls you talk on too  
both  
okay  
okay  
well i really did not know so i  
yeah  
okay  
cause this is only my second day doing it  
and i just did not i did not know  
and that was   the details  
we i just started yesterday  
have you  
yeah  
i had a  
i see  
i see  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well my uh  
golfer  
well  
well that's about the way i am  
i don't consider myself a good one  
but i do enjoy it  
i usually play a couple of times a month  
sometimes more  
but lately it's been just about that  
but i do enjoy  
i think the one of the things i enjoy the most is the beauty of the golf courses  
uh_huh  
you can get out there  
yeah  
that's really neat  
you can just get out there and lose yourself in it and forget everything else in the world except what you're seeing out there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it really is  
and you know it's so frustrating  
i keep wondering sometimes why do i do this because it's so frustrating  
you think you do pretty good one day  
and you're doing a whole lot better you know  
and then all of a sudden you go back out  
and it's just terrible  
you can't do anything   right  
boy i'm improving     uh_huh  
and you think my goodness why did i think i was doing better  
i don't  
i guess i could  
i've never been to a golf to a major golf tournament  
i uh watch them on t v a lot  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
uh_huh  
i'll bet um  
uh_huh  
well i've only been playing like about three years now  
my husband's played for twenty five  
but i just took it up about three years ago  
and uh we play in a lot of couple's scramble tournaments  
we belong to a country club a little ways outside of dallas  
and   we have developed a tremendous number of friends that   couples do this  
and you know it's fun to go on vacations and things and go to golf courses  
you can meet some really neat people  
uh_huh  
they really are  
i just love them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's right  
and you just do your own thing and be relaxed and enjoy it  
really  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have never played in any tournament except just a scramble  
they have a lot of them there at the club you know  
they have a b c d type tournaments  
and then they they have the club [championships] and everything with the women's slots as well  
but i don't know  
i've just never really gotten into that  
now my husband and all the men i mean they love the real competitiveness of playing for money you know  
uh_huh  
but i i'm not good enough for that  
yes  
they do  
i don't do much with it since uh most of theirs  
they have a traveling league  
and uh most of their meetings and all are during the week  
and i don't don't get to play except on the weekend  
i work during the week all the time  
uh_huh  
someday when i i get where i live closer to the club and partially retired maybe i'll uh be able to play a little more  
but  
uh_huh  
well yes  
i am as a matter of fact  
not a good one  
but i am a golfer  
i uh haven't been out all year  
i didn't get out this year  
but uh i enjoy both watching it and playing it  
yes  
and the the [peacefulness]  
and the little critters that are around  
that's right  
and it's such a personal challenge  
more than competitiveness against someone else  
it's it's a competitiveness against yourself  
well you'll  
or you'll hear thirty and think boy   i got my game together  
i've had a par and a [birdie]   and a [bogey]  
and then you [quadruple] [bogey]  
being down there do you uh get to see like the colonial or any of those  
oh  
you really should go at least once  
you know we've   had uh the p g a up here  
uh and in tulsa  
and i've been to both of them  
and it's it is so much fun to   see these players you see on t v to and to hear that ball go [whizzing] by  
i mean it's it's like a bullet going by  
and you know to to see their concentration and yet to see them how friendly they are when they're walk by you you know and   how good they are to their [spectators]  
both  
yes  
yes  
it is  
the [scrambles] are fun  
i belong to the country club there in el [reno] when i lived there  
and   it you know it it's fun because it's so [uncompetitive]  
you really on those you really go out for fun  
and you know you won't  
you know you're stroke is just one of one or two or three   or four you know that's going to make any difference  
that's right  
i used to when i worked at [kerr] [mcgee] i used to play in their tournaments  
and uh now that was very competitive  
and i enjoyed it tremendously  
but uh i i'm more i think i get more enjoyment just couple friends going out  
and if if it takes one of us ten shots to get up to the green so be it  
you know we just think well the next time has got to be better  
oh yes  
every hole  
does your club have a good woman's association  
it's hard to be a weekend golfer and improve your game  
it uh it's it's a it's a good game  
i uh i wish i had more time to play  
and i felt you know had more energy to play it too  
uh i guess i've always kind of liked golf  
i i worked on a golf course at at one time  
and that's how i picked up golf  
and uh i don't know  
it's just a kind of a challenging game  
uh_huh  
i haven't gotten the chance lately though to play  
i'm trying to get back into it  
uh so uh i got to start all over again  
it's not like riding a bicycle  
you do tend to   forget  
oh  
yeah  
what is your handicap  
okay  
uh i was down at about four or five quite awhile ago  
it's probably up there to twenty now if i to start again  
yeah  
yeah  
i have got to try and get out there  
i i know with our our long winters i i enjoy watching it  
i don't know if it's just because i like the game or i just like to to see the warm weather  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's the problem out here with the long [layovers] with the winter  
you almost have to [relearn] every spring to to get back out  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
you always work on trying to improve each day  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
i when i used to golf out there i'd putt well but i i wouldn't uh chip well  
one of the two uh  
or something would go wrong  
but i always managed to to get near par anyway  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
do you have uh long waits uh to get on the course  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
i just moved into this small community  
so i'm going to try and get into one of the golf courses here  
i'm hoping that won't be    
i   was from the uh   twin cities area  
yeah  
are you sure you guys aren't having the bad weather  
yeah  
well i wish that's all we had  
oh  
yeah  
i see  
well at least it that doesn't uh get in the way of golfing  
so that  
yeah  
yeah  
that's what they do here sometimes  
you hear about it where they will take the orange ball out there  
but if you got  
it sure is  
i play at least three times a week  
i'm on it  
no  
well i'm one of those rare left handed golfers  
and i do enjoy playing  
right now it's three  
well if you play with some consistency though you can get it right back down  
uh well we can usually play here year around  
sometimes in january it's not too comfortable to play  
but there is usually two or three days in the week that you can get out there and play  
and i'm pretty much addicted to golf  
so i get out there one way or the other  
it's a good game though  
it's very challenging  
and the reason i like it so much is because i'm essentially playing against myself  
that's the way i look at it  
i i play in in a lot of groups  
and but i they keep score and between themselves  
but i really don't care  
um i go out  
and each shot i say well this is what i'm going to try to do  
and then i see how close i can come to that  
yeah  
and inevitably one [facet] of my game isn't working at one time or another  
either i'm not driving very well  
or i'm not hitting long irons very well  
or i'm not putting well  
or but sometimes it all comes together  
well we just had the tour championship here in pine hurst  
and i went to that  
craig [statler] won in a playoff  
but we uh  
this is a big golf area  
we have a lot of uh  
i'd say we probably have within fifteen miles twenty golf communities built around courses that are pretty well designed and then of course pine hurst  
and we still have the [greensboro] open here every year  
yes  
we do as a matter of fact  
it it uh it's only been that way in the last five years  
but now you uh  
most of the courses have a uh two day advance tee time you have to call  
that's some cold golf too isn't it  
we have cold  
usually january and the first two weeks of february  
but uh last week we were in the seventies  
something is coming through now  
so it's like in the low forties right now  
but uh it's supposed to leave early in the week and then be back in the sixties  
we have very windy winters   and very cold  
but we don't get any snow anymore  
i don't i don't know what changed that pattern  
we used to get four or five inches a year  
now we get nothing  
it's been probably five years since we've had any [measurable] [snowfall]  
no  
but i have played golf in the snow before   get out my orange golf ball and go out  
push my number  
okay  
oh i'm a  
i play golf  
but i don't actually play golf  
yeah  
hack it all over the place  
it's [sickening] isn't it  
yeah  
we've got tons up here  
but i don't know  
how do you feel about your game  
i guess that's a good question  
yeah  
yeah  
i like that too  
i don't know  
i try to play  
but god i a couple years ago i played two three times a week and got lousy  
i guess that's the best i ever got was lousy  
and i thought i was really improving and the big break was going to come  
and then i got worse again  
so  
yeah  
that's pretty good  
um i'm that and worse  
i i play  
next year i  
actually i take it kind of seriously  
but i've been doing so bad  
next year i always say this every year but next year i'm starting over from scratch  
i'm going to go take lessons and everything  
i'm going to do it right and see if i can actually play this game or not  
yeah  
what do you do when you're putting  
that's a good thing  
that's something i could learn actually  
that's when i do my worst  
i finally get to the green  
and i think i'm doing all all fine  
and then  
yeah  
can you really see it though  
what about the speed  
can you tell but can you tell how how fast you're going to hit it  
yeah  
but you can feel that  
i don't know  
i have i can get it within like you know four or five feet or something  
but i don't have enough field  
now i'm t v watching  
they make you die at the hole every time  
oh it just dies and rolls in  
i don't know  
it's hard for me  
once you're there you're all set though  
we should play team golf then  
i'll get us there  
and you put it in  
i  
oh the t v golfers they do that  
it takes them two to get there and two to get it in  
so it's fifty percent  
and me it takes me five to get there and five to get it in  
yeah  
that's good  
joe pros  
that's pretty good  
for eighteen  
wow  
that's pretty good  
i'm talking to the wrong guy  
your [shitty] golf is probably the best golf i've ever seen  
if when i'm in the nineties i'm feeling good  
i'm usually around a hundred  
that's my thing around a hundred  
you know i can hit a great drives and think i'm going to do all awesome on this hole  
but it ain't going to happen  
well it's a good thing with me i slice it every single time  
that's good  
i aim  
okay  
so are you a a a golfer  
or are you a spectator  
well i'm the same way  
i   i go out there and hit the ball  
yeah  
um uh well in the carolina's it's it's just you know we've got a bunch of golf courses around here  
uh well i mean i'm not a serious golfer at all  
uh uh a friend of mine goes golfing a lot  
and he drags me out every now and then  
and i uh i don't have a i don't really even have a game  
i usually  
when i go out and play golf it's usually like at a at one of these par [threes] that   you know you  
but um i like watching it on t v  
uh   well i i i if i can i can hit a great deal like um they they my friends  
to get me they they say i hit worm burners because i i can't hit it up in the air  
so i'm pretty bad  
but i i i get great distance hitting it you know across the ground  
and if it's going over water or something one of them have to take the shot for me because i'm  
but i'm getting better  
i've got where now i can hit it in in the air some of the time  
yeah  
uh so i'm kind of a [novice] at it  
well that i i guess that's what i need to do is is get some kind of lessons or something  
because i my my tee off is not bad  
i mean i'm i'm good up to everything else putting and stuff like that  
it's just that that initial tee  
just walking around the hollow and making sure there's not really  
you know checking the ground and and so forth you know  
see how it's going to break or whatever  
yeah  
if you get if you get down on the ground you really can  
um well if you know if it's up on a slope that you've got to hit it not kill it  
but you've got to hit enough speed and the right angle that it's it's you know  
because when it's going up a hill it's going to break in a direction  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
but i  
the the  
it's it's like i said  
once i get up on the green i'm fine  
but that that tee shot uh it you know  
when [teeing] off i'll go probably a hundred feet across the ground  
so it it takes me awhile to get to the hole  
but  
i'm all set  
that sounds good to me  
well it it it usually takes me about probably two two or three to get it there  
and and then that's according to the hole  
and it  
uh uh maybe one or two [putts]  
it's   according to where i'm at on the green  
but the friends i play with uh they play all the time  
and and they're really good  
uh they're not joe pros  
but they they golf in the high sixties low seventies  
so i guess they're pretty good  
yeah  
for eighteen  
yeah  
no  
no  
no  
that's not my golf  
that's my friends  
mine mine  
i'm i'm usually in the eighties or nineties  
so i'm i'm not good  
well i either [teeing] off i either slice it  
or i hook it ever single time  
and and i alternate  
they tell you what our topic was  
right  
how much of a golfer are you  
you bet  
i'm fifty years old  
i've been a hacker  
i think i think i played better golf when i was fifteen john than   i play right now  
and uh  
oh i know  
it's just unreal  
i you know i'm a guy that plays  
if i play a lot of golf i play six to eight times a year  
and that's about it  
i figure that's my retirement game  
i really  
i come from a family of golfers  
i mean i was raised by a man my stepfather who with a two handicap i mean he he he he could get down on his knees and hit the ball i mean further than most people could hit it  
and my mother who is now he's my stepfather is dead but my mother who is now seventy one i can remember her being i believe a sixteen or a fourteen handicap  
but but uh all they did every day in their life was to play golf every  
they'd leave work and go to a golf course or a little country club they belonged to back in richmond virginia and just uh play nine holes of golf  
that was their deal  
they  
but uh   i just i just never could do it  
i have a brother in law who is uh an ex college coach and like a pro  
and he has a very good handicap and plays good golf  
sort of like the non golfer golfer of the family  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
i think i'm probably the same way  
lessons do help  
i know ever year we buy  
i go to this ducks unlimited dinner  
it's a [hunter's] type affair  
and i buy in in austin texas  
i go down to austin  
i live in the dallas area but i go down to austin and go with my good customer and friend of mine  
and we always buy this weekend at a at a country club in the hill country   you know at uh [horseshoe] bay  
and we just have a ball  
and we play three days in a row three different courses  
and course believe it or not by the end of the third day and the end of the uh third course my score has gone from you know a hundred and twenty down to about a hundred and five  
so  
you bet  
so it that makes a lot of difference to me  
you bet  
yeah  
that's super  
i haven't learned to hit the ball easy  
and i just sort of  
i'm always wanting to hit it hard  
and that's something my stepfather never could teach me you know just to relax and hit the ball  
and you know so subsequently when i do tire out from playing like twelve fourteen holes my you know a lot of my [energy's] gone  
when i do swing it's an easier swing  
and i do actually hit the ball better  
no  
i have a two through you know two through [wedge]  
i hit a two iron awful lot  
off now off the tee  
i don't hit a driver off the tee  
that that's why i need my driving lessons  
that helps  
well that's that's a good idea  
i think this next year i'm going to i'm going to attempt to play more  
and i'm going to do the same thing  
i i laid off my woods about three years ago  
and i just use a two wood off the fairway  
and i'm a fairly strong person  
so i get a pretty good little drive  
and i and i guess control my irons better you know  
if you'll take lessons the first thing they put in your hand is an iron  
and uh i still remember that watching myself and my son  
so but i think the key is you just need to you need to play more often than i play  
right  
makes good makes good sense  
oh yeah  
you bet  
my my challenge of the game is just if i can get off the first tee when everyone's standing around watching you i'd be   great after that  
that boy  
i just  
if i get off the tee box and i and i've you know you know anything from a hundred fifty to two hundred yard drive through a straight i just want to get down and kiss the ground you know  
because  
i think golf isn't it  
are you a hacker  
i know i   oh i know i did  
i know i did  
course i know i watch my thirteen year old play now you know  
and it's like they don't have a muscle in their body  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
that's what it takes  
you you need to play that often   to get a really good handicap  
well i went to  
i decided this past year that i was going to get out and start playing a lot more  
and i i went after it  
and did and i really didn't find much improvement  
fact ever time i'd start trying to correct something it seemed like the score would   go go back up  
yeah  
i i   think i need to uh  
i probably need to take some some more lessons uh more current   and uh and practice more often  
spend more time on the  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
i'm familiar with it  
oh yeah  
if you play regular i think it makes a big difference  
yeah  
yeah  
i well i've also found too i i try to work out regularly  
and when i am doing that uh and feeling loose and that i swing better  
i i i get through the ball better  
uh and i also if i  
i found as i've gotten a little older here i worry less about my distance  
and i  
my control is a little bit better there  
uh so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
have you ever have you ever tried a one iron  
uh_huh  
well you know i put mine back in my bag this year too  
and i i used a three wood rather than a driver  
uh i had a lot more control on it uh  
i sacrificed distance  
but i wasn't in trouble every time i got down the fairway  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
absolutely  
yeah  
well i i read recently here they say if you're playing if you're scoring well you should play more  
if you're scoring poorly you should spend more time on the practice   uh range  
uh i think there is less frustration factor there too uh  
so but i i  
the one iron is something i've been thinking because my driver's gone so badly lately that i i should pick one up and try to start  
apparently they're very difficult to play with  
but with practice i would imagine you could [groove] that swing too  
and i play with a fellow that can knock a one iron  
it's incredible  
and but and his accuracy is what's so [startling] with it  
and i  
and it but it's an iron that he's really practiced with  
he has used a lot  
and uh it would be fun to get that good at a   with an iron uh distance iron  
and get away without embarrassing yourself  
right  
do you play  
oh yeah  
well i'm into it uh  
is anybody  
really  
oh wow  
right  
super  
yeah  
that's kind of the way i did it too actually  
i i played uh just a tiny bit when i was real young  
and then uh i i got on to a team in high school but wasn't very good still   but and then quit for awhile  
and recently i picked it up like you say about a couple of years ago  
and uh i've been playing you know off and on when i can  
up in minneapolis it's not too easy to play in the winter of course  
but i actually live in florida  
so uh   uh i'll be going back down there in may and hopefully be picking it up a little more regularly  
i was going to say  
yeah  
that's that's true all too many times  
fortunately uh down where i live in florida there's some golf courses that are pretty reasonable if you know where to look  
uh one of them is the university of florida golf course   which is open to the public  
and that's pretty pretty good  
yeah  
can you get like a a student discount type of thing  
or  
yeah  
what what what are green fees run there  
okay  
that's  
yeah  
that's about the same i guess as it is in florida  
but  
really  
oh that's super  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well that's the way to do it though  
that's the way to get in some good practice without having to pay for it all the time  
yeah  
yeah  
they need to get a new photography method  
because once the guy hits the ball and they got to try to follow the ball   that's that's a little difficult  
i mean it they do they do a generally okay job  
but like you said it's it's kind of boring actually  
oh yeah  
yeah  
i bet that would be  
yeah  
yeah  
i've never been to a tournament  
uh you know looking at it on t v you're thinking man what a boring thing you know  
but uh that's that's wild though  
i'll have to see if i can't get a chance   to go  
right  
yeah  
i can imagine  
what do you do for a living  
oh you are  
which uh which university  
okay  
all right great  
what are you going into  
okay  
definitely not golf right  
yeah  
if you're good you can really rake in the bucks  

what was   what was that movie that they had out  

there was a movie about a professional golfer  
and i i   can't remember  
it was on network t v a couple of times  
yeah  
that's right  
yeah  
that's a good thing  
but uh yeah  
i guess when i get back i'm going to school in florida actually  
uh and fortunately i've been able to to play some golf on a student budget which is   real helpful you know  
but it it's unfortunate you know  
you hear about japan   i guess you know it's it's like two hundred fifty dollar minimum or three hundred dollar minimum just to like to practice even  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess they have those uh driving ranges that are actually stacked one on top of the other  
yeah  
yeah  
i i played uh uh eighteen holes with some japanese guys in in gainesville as a matter of fact  
and it was really wild  
they were into it  
you know they kicked our butt all the way to  
yeah  
i uh consider myself a hacker  
how about you  
yeah  
uh i'm not as good as i'd like to be  
but it's a  
no  
i don't think so  
uh i'd started playing when i was in elementary school actually  
we lived   really close to a par three golf course  
and i'd go up there with friends after school a couple of times every week  
and then   for uh for years i don't know after elementary school all through junior high and stuff i didn't play cause i think i just got so frustrated when i was little i'd my body wasn't you know   physically developed and all that kind of stuff  
and then i'd started picking it up again a couple of years back  
and i've really been enjoying it  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  

the one factor that really bothers me is the expense of playing golf  
i mean it's a great game  
but i mean to play a really nice course you've got to have a really big wallet i mean  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i uh attend the indiana university  
and it's the same way here  
they have a really nice championship style course that   is fairly reasonable to play on  
uh a little bit but not a whole lot  
i mean i you'd think you would  
but uh you don't  
so i  
uh well they range anywhere from about five bucks for your basic city type course up to fifty sixty dollars for a really really nice course  
uh_huh  
my dad is a member of a golf club over in my home town  
and i can play for free there  
and it's a pretty nice course  
yeah  
and i guess well it's free for me  
somebody's paying  
but not me  
yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
as far as watching golf i mean i can watch it on t v  
but it's kind of boring  
it's nice to see those who guys  
they have such good style that uh   it's uh it's pretty fun to watch  
right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
what i really  
i uh had a chance  
they had the p g a tournament up in indianapolis last year  
and i was able to go and see one of the rounds of that  
and that was really fun  
i mean you knew it  
i never really thought it was would be that much fun to go to a big golf tournament and watch  
but man it was it was something else just to follow those guys around and actually watch them play  
right  
you got  
i mean it's uh it's a lot more exciting than actually than watching it on t v  
and if you pick a group of golfers and follow them around i mean it's just watching them the whole time instead of like on t v you get to see them make a tee shot  
and then they go off to some other hole  
and they come back when they're putting  
but you know it's really something else  
uh i'm a student right now  
yeah  
at uh indiana university  
uh i don't really know  
i'm a math computer science major right now  
no  
i  
it'd be nice to be a pro golfer  
i mean it seems like that that would be an okay life just to hang out  
and  
yeah  
huh  
oh yeah  
well you know it seems like well you go to work every weekend play maybe one two tournaments a month you come in about tenth you'd still   be doing pretty well  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
and those fees to join a club  
like a million dollars or whatever is just  
that is out of control  
i mean you'd really want to really be liking your golf  
yeah  
i saw one of those on t v  
that is pretty wild  
yeah  
okay
well uh so what do you think about golfing are you a spectator or a player
yeah
i know how you feel about that
that's true
what's what's uh what's the best part of your game
do you think
uh_huh
what is your worst then
well i think i think my best part actually is [chipping] or at least it was last year i haven't been out this year it's kind of been uh kind of strange i hadn't been able to get out yet
but uh my biggest problem is staying in the fairway for you know with drives and stuff
uh_huh
yeah
i've i've gone in the past years from uh having a wicked slice to having a wicked hook to back to having a wicked slice i mean it's just uh
and i can't seem to find the middle space you know
but i've got a friend of mine working on it
uh i've trying to help me out
i've been going to the driving range with him
and and it seems to be doing some um
yeah
well lessons are are okay if you do it right
i think i did i took some lessons uh a couple of years back
but to tell you the truth that for a while hurt more than it helped because i it turned out that i couldn't do anything right after that
and even you know like i said my [chipping] which is one of the best things in my game
i couldn't do that
i couldn't couldn't drive couldn't you know
in fact it was it wasn't as much at that point that i was hooking and [slicing] i just i was topping the ball
i was you know i was doing a lot of things wrong at that point
but i was trying to think of so many different things at the same time because you know it was
it's kind of a funny story whenever i went for my first lesson the uh the instructor takes me out there and he says all right
well take a swing and let me see how you look
so he's bending down on one knee right
so i take a swing
and and all of a sudden his head just goes down and and then all of a you know he just kind of slowly brings his head up and looks at me and he says we've got a lot of work to do
oh yeah
i was feeling real good then
so he broke me down from
i mean he started me from the very beginning
as far as changing just about everything
i did
and uh uh
oh yeah
oh that's definitely true in fact if if i ever you know have a son or anything
i'm definitely going to you know teach him have a lesson or something
is that yours or mine
all right
okay
what's that
oh yeah
you know the only person i've ever known that had a hole in one was my brother in law but uh
and he he said he got his luckily so i don't know
but i mean i came so close
once just once i mean that's the only time i've ever been any anywhere near but i mean i
it was i used to live out in midland texas
i don't know if you've ever been out there
but it's you know a real windy place
but i played on a course out there and like i said it's a very windy place
so it's you know the wind was blowing
and it was cold and it was like it was about a hundred and i don't know a hundred and seventy or a hundred and eighty year par three
and i you know the wind was right in my face
so i just pulled out a seven wood right
and i put that thing i mean it rolled right by the cup and only ended up three inches off you know over over past the hole
but i mean that's as close as i've ever been
you know because i'm not you know that's one of my problems is controlling my my my irons on a par three so i have a lot of trouble hitting the greens
so do you like watching it though
yeah
well that's that's exactly what my friend has has figured out that i do is my i can actually see the club on my backswing and he says that what i do is
i'm actually crossing the plain is what this is his words his technical words for it crossing because because i ended up into an [inverted] c where the weight was on the wrong foot or something
so i i've found that i actually do uh i get a lot uh better control and distance if i don't you know don't take as big a back swing
yeah
what's funny is the idea that uh you know what i consider you know like a three quarter backswing or even a half backswing my friend says that's you know that's a full backswing and you don't want to go any further than that
so i mean it's a
now it's a matter of trying to convince myself that
that's right
so i don't know it's going to be interesting
that's probably true
oh isn't it though
i don't know why i do it
oh that's that's one of the worse things about it
it really is
but uh
uh_huh
you know that's it you have to be healthy too
that's another point i guess
well i think that's about it
yeah
i do too
yeah
well you take care
yeah
good luck
um i have played golf in the past
i'm not very good at it
even though i'm pretty well sports minded
um there's something about holding that club in my hand that i want to hold it like a baseball bat so i can putt
but i have a terrible time driving
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
like you're supposed to
well i even uh took a golf lesson six weeks
i guess worth of golf lessons
and and i had a terrible time trying to remember where your hands are supposed to be and over this way
and under that way
and keep your legs this way
and it was extremely difficult considering how easy it looks when the pros do it
and so uh i played for a while that way
but i can go play putt putt golf really well
that's the kind of that's the kind of stuff
i can go for
um i watch some of the things because my father is an avid golf fan
he he watches every game he goes out every single day his whole stance the way he walks is a [golfer's] walk if there is such a thing
and so he uh he's gotten me interested in it
so i have my own [putters] and and you know some some equipment
but um the only thing that i would probably watch is like things that are local like the [byron] nelson classic that's coming up
um
and then there's another one out
let me see off of one twenty one coming up pretty soon
so i like to watch things that are close uh by to see if there's any names that are familiar with texas
uh_huh
no
i can't imagine watching much golf without a t v
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yes
yes
uh_huh
right
right
yeah
well at least with now with the with the sports
uh and and the t v is um they can get the [camera's] just at the time the people are starting to swing
so it makes it a little bit faster
and um a little bit more interesting
but i think it's it's more interesting to go out and watch them uh than it is on the t v and and to follow like one or two people along that golf course
and then you you almost feel like you're in doing exactly what they're doing
uh it it's so much more interesting
i thought than um uh sitting and watching it on t v
i think it's kind of boring
yeah
uh_huh
uh on the [byron] nelson classics um was it
no
it wasn't last year it was the year before
uh gosh i can't remember you know all those names kind of go together
after a while
um let me see
because i followed several and i'm trying to think who it is that i was um going along with
i don't remember now
i mean gee whiz
i all i remember was we had tornadoes about the same time
and that was the big [highlight] they were afraid they were going to go down through the center of the the the golf course
and that's what i remember the most about that
uh but i do remember thinking it was a lot different to be out there uh watching than it was to watch it on t v
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh wow
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
sure
sure
well i know uh uh since it's warmer weather down here
and you can play almost year round
then yeah that's the reason is there's so many people who want to get out and go play golf see my parents live in ohio and my dad what he'll do is uh he will come down here or go someplace else in the south to where it's warm
so he can continue playing golf
i mean this is what an avid golf person does it is just so fascinating
and then everything we get for him is all golf junk
you know the golf hat the golf you know clock everything
because he's he's just he is he is a freak when it comes to golfing yeah
he uh he's he's really something
no
see he um it's only been in about the past five years
and he's so good
we keep telling him he needs to get into some of those senior tournaments
and he says oh i can't get in there with arnold [palmer] and all those other good people
but i'm saying well yes
you could you know and then that's where you usually can make a little money and and profit this way
because his handicap has gotten lower and lower and lower every single year
so uh but no
he hasn't gone to do that yet
but we wish he would you know make a little [megabucks] and pass it along you know to the family
that's right
i know get to meet all these stars because i remember sitting on his lap when i was a little girl watching golf he has loved golf really all of his life
and but i remember watching it golf with him
so yeah
this is something that uh he can go and see all these people
he's uh got to watch on t v for years and years and years and years
so
yeah
i think so too
no
i think some of my brothers are going to do that
i'm a volleyball person myself
yeah
yeah
i love volleyball
so i'm on a t i league
and uh play with a group of people from here at work
but i don't even think t i has
well they may have a golfing i don't know they may have a golfing club you know it's possible uh_huh
golfing club yeah
there you go
i bet you
they do
but i just you know i hear about things like the the tennis um teams
and and uh volleyball and baseball
but i haven't heard of golf
but i'm sure they probably do
uh_huh
oh
oh no
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
me too
it's not uh not something like uh that [obsession] i think my father has
i know
that's true
well it was nice talking with you
okay
well no
i i try
my husband and i uh took it up last year
last summer
so we try and it it we really enjoy it
we're having a having a good time
although it can be rather frustrating
how about you
uh we took a golf clinic
there was about i don't know twelve fifteen people in it
and we took lesson for about seven weeks
we went once a week
and and that's how we got started
yes
oh how nice
uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
definitely
you know i've never really heard of it
but they do something called the slope rating and i'm not into it that much to really know
but i think that has something to do with how easy
or how hard
the course is
uh my dad has talked about it
and i'm just kind of like okay whatever
so i'm not really sure i know
but i think that's how they rate
the the different courses
oh no
we go ourselves a lot of time we'll walk just to get in the exercise
uh depending on how the weather is if it's too hot or something
then we'll then we'll ride
but we we just like you know getting outdoors and and walking around and playing
yes
and that's something that that's a sport that a husband and wife could do together
so we we you ought to take it up
it really is a lot of fun
yeah
well you know you sit there and watch the pros on t v
and it's like oh they make it look so easy
and you're going oh i can go out and do that
and then you get out there and it's kind of a different story
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
usually if you're going to play eighteen holes it usually takes about four hours
a lot of times uh you know you've got groups in front of you
and sometimes you have to wait
and and that kind of thing
so it you know it can take take a long time
sometimes we do nine
it just kind of depends
if we decide to go out you know in the afternoon
and just want to go and play nine then we'll do that
but usually we play eighteen
yeah
probably so just so that you know you know the [courtesy] and and get at least the basics down so you feel a little bit confident because i know the first time i went out to play
i waited till i took all the lessons
and i was i was so embarrassed because i thought oh i'm going to be holding people up behind me
and they're going to be laughing
and you know you just
i guess you just get nervous
and then after you've been out a few times you just say oh well
kind of get used to it
uh_huh
yeah
we each have our own clubs when we took our lessons the instructor provided clubs for us because which was really good because you know when year just starting out you don't know what type of clubs to use you know
what's the best for you
and so there's no sense in buying a set
and then finding out later that you really should be using something else
uh_huh
yeah
well you can go to you know a golf shop or something
that's what we did when we went to go look for them
and they helped us out a lot
yeah
yeah
so that that helps
yeah
yeah
well we have we have one that it's not our favorite one
but it's
uh so what do you like best about golf
really
really
yeah
i play uh i play probably four or five times a week my my wife and kids don't like it too much
but it's such a great game
i i play you know thirty six holes after work
and then uh
yeah
it does in the summertime
in the winter
it's too you know
but uh you know i go to the indoor driving range all all winter
and uh
and uh i practice putting
and it's it's a fun game
oh really
that sounds great
well i'll have to do that because i love golf
well cathy is that your name cathy uh do do you uh do you have a favorite golfer
professional golfer
excuse me my wife is making fun of me
yeah
she hates it
when i you know
she thinks it's funny
that i got golf as a topic because you know she [dislikes] it so much so
yeah
greg norman why
are you
sure
you're not attracted to him or anything
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i like tom he's good
yeah
i agree with you there cathy
yeah
he does
uh i'd have to say uh i i still like the golden bear you know
oh yeah
i i like the senior tour i i think it's got more personality
you know
and the names don't change every week you know
so
sure
sure
really
my kids do you have kids cathy i'm starting them off young i'm going to get them
oh you got a boy
good
he does
has he got a pretty good stance
huh
well that's true
that's true
and that's a good subject that i like to talk about
oh are you do you play
yeah
uh_huh
that's the way to do it
yeah
uh_huh
right
well you got weekends
it takes a lot of time
yeah
it does
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i even i enjoy it on t v uh once you get into it a little more you'll enjoy it on t v also
uh_huh
yeah
the more you get into it
you'll you'll really enjoy it on t v too
i think i know it does
yeah
i play all the time
well not all the time
but i try to get in at least we play where there's a little course down in east texas and we go down there a lot
mount vernon
and uh
no
it's a hundred miles
i'm originally from there and we go down nearly every weekend my folks live there
so we have a place to stay
and uh it's it's just so much fun when you got a regular group of your buddies to play with
so that's what i do
and my wife took it up about two or three years ago
and she's she's enjoyed it a lot
but it's hard to get the girls to play you know
and uh so she doesn't really get to play you know enough
not nearly enough
although she does she and i play sometimes you know
and she enjoys it
and she enjoys playing with the girls but heck most of the time they're not all playing
and of course i've got a group that i play with
so it makes it a little bit difficult there
but we enjoy it
it's a lot of fun
and uh one of the best parts about it once she took it up was when we'd go on a little trip somewhere not long trips or anything but just little trips you know
well it was always real good to take our clubs and she could we could play golf
whereas before
i probably wouldn't even get to play you know
and now she enjoys playing with me
and and we you know it it just makes the trips more enjoyable for me
so uh
oh i've been playing probably twenty years or longer
i didn't start it nearly as young as i should have
i think i was about twenty uh i don't know
i guess i've been playing longer than that since i'm fifty i've probably been playing uh twenty five years
uh_huh
well you most uh well you think you'd be better if you started early i'm not so sure
that's true
yeah
some some people that helps
but then some people are just good at it
and some are not
uh now now you're going to improve
and it helps to take lessons and play a lot you're definitely going to get better
but i'm talking about the difference from being a mid nineties to low a high
i mean a low nineties to a mid eighties [shooter] which that's what i am
to being a guy that shoots in the low seventies
that doesn't sound like a lot of difference
but
believe me it's a lot of difference
it really is
i used to play around here all the time
but i don't any more
we just i just play down there now
uh my favorite courses around here are uh fire wheel and uh i i like chase oaks real well
but it's kind of expensive
no
it's a it's a municipal course garland owns it
city of garland and that's
oh yeah
plano's a good course i've played there
oh gosh
ever since it's been there
many many times
it's an excellent golf course
chase oaks is difficult you really need to be a good golfer to play chase oaks
yeah
if you're not a really good golfer don't waste your time
oh well good
so you're a player then instead of a spectator then
oh right
boy
you're you're right up there about where i am
on no young people like to swing real hard at the ball
they just hit a long way
well i'm i'm getting better about hitting them straight but where i get into trouble is around the green
my short game leaves a lot to be desired
oh
yes
the short of it is
my [weakest] part
yeah
i i've you know i see that all the time as a matter of fact i live literally right across the street from a golf course here in texas
and most of the older folks that go out there and play are exactly the same way all of us young bucks get out there and hit the ball
you know a mile but it's like three [fairways] over
uh_huh
oh boy
yeah
well you can get a walking membership for two hundred dollars a year at the course down here
yeah
it's an eighteen hole course i mean it's it's uh not terribly difficult
and there's really there's a river that runs along the side
but it only comes into play on one par three hole
there's really not that many hazards on it
but uh it's a really inexpensive course to get on
there's a few of those here too
no
not near as much as i'd like to
i mean i've i tend to stay pretty busy at my job
and it's hard to get on a regular schedule
and then we're pretty active in our church which takes up a lot more time too
so
no
we actually don't
we have two miniature dachshunds and ten fish
uh_huh
yeah
where have you have you played any in texas
yeah
it does basically though the golf season only shuts down for maybe three months out of the year
if that much you know
probably not even that much because really february and january were about the only two really cold months
that we had it was up in the very warm temperatures even in december this year
yeah
oh [arizona's] beautiful
um
yeah
hey
well hey you know it's never too late is what i say
well i sure hope so
okay
and with you
is that right
okay well
my name is barry
where do you golf at
i see
so you are from maine originally then
new york
well i'm originally from nebraska
and i really didn't play much golf there until i moved to south dakota
and we lived on the golf course
and i took up uh golf at that time
and really enjoyed it
and uh then when we moved to plano
i really haven't had the we've lived here a year now
and i really haven't uh [golfed] a lot
but those times that i have been out
i went to the uh uh plano municipal golf course
and then i've [golfed] a couple times uh at chase oaks
and that's very challenging at chase oaks uh a lot of water
oh
if i go to the municipal course it's uh maybe twenty five dollars for eighteen holes
and uh it seems to me that when i was at chase oaks uh well of course i took my son with me
so we were close to you know fifty dollars or so it really is
but uh i enjoy it probably uh it depends on which day i go uh as to which part is most challenging
oh probably a for nine uh i i i felt pretty good with maybe forty one forty two around in there
that would be a that would be a darn good game for me
yeah
i'm i'm happy with that
well i think what i find attractive is when i can go out uh with friends and uh on a nice day just to be out uh it's
oh oh
oh just uh i i guess the thing that i like most about it is getting away from work
and uh although uh if i'm jogging or working out or playing golf or whatever
it's a a time to get away from things
but yet
sometimes things become more a little more clearer that way too
yeah
yeah
that's nice
i'm uh you know it it bothers me when uh especially in this particular area there are so many people that play golf that you tend to uh have a lot of people there and feel [hurried] and i don't i don't like to feel rushed when i'm playing golf
oh you know it it really varies from day to day uh if i'm if i'm on
i uh really can hit uh hit my driver pretty well
and uh that's that's a new experience for me because for about a year to two years uh i couldn't hit my driver i had such a hook that uh i would just use a three iron all the time
and i could hit my three iron just about as far as anybody else could hit a driver
so i used that
but then i took a few lessons and really uh worked on it
and uh yeah
we had a golf pro uh and i took maybe two or three lessons
basically uh and uh had a golf pro
and and uh it was like maybe twenty five dollars for a half an hour
but uh he really helped a lot
yep
yeah
i uh uh got a pair of used clubs for a christmas present one year
and uh so before that i had been using uh my little sisters uh woman's set
and i thought boy the first day i got those uh new clubs i'd go out and uh really uh knock them dead
and uh it takes awhile to get used to a new set of clubs
is he a pretty good golfer
good
we uh probably my most exciting experience i had playing golf was over in hawaii
we took a vacation
and uh my brother and i went out brother in law went out and uh played in uh
um what kind of hobbies do you have  
really  
i like cross stitch too  
i just have a hard time finding any spare time lately  
uh_huh  
oh several years  
my husband is even interested in it now  
he likes to help me design um you know projects that are   a little more [customized]  
not that hard  
i really enjoy it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh yeah  
um i do mostly that um  
not very artistic really for like painting and stuff  
but now i don't know  
oh really  
yeah  
i've got the kits to put them all in  
i don't have them all yet   certainly  
oh yeah  
i just i just keep an inventory of what i currently have  
and then when i start a new project i go through and see if i if i you know  
just buy the colors that i need   of what i'm low on  
uh_huh  
yeah  
a lot of times you can do that  
i think i  
the pinks there's like forty two different shades of pink  
pinks and greens  
yeah  
yeah  
well not lately  
i just started a new job and trying to get acclimated there  
yeah  
how old  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well last year he was a little bit young for having one  
he wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway  
you would have  
but  
oh yeah  
yeah  
that's that's kind of strange that we got the same call  
it's a call  
no  
that's okay  
oh wow  
no  
i just started about well five years ago i think  
uh_huh  
there's also a couple of large projects baby afghans  
and i got one done  
and i think the other one is going the child is going to be in high school before i get finished  
bear thing  
well yeah  
i just i bought the cloth and the pattern for it  
i didn't um i didn't buy the uh i didn't buy a kit  
uh_huh  
it's that cloth  
it's cloth i think  
and it has the borders and everything already  
number one turned out just great  
and the lady said she couldn't believe that they know that i had done it in the colors that they had decorated the nursery  
and i didn't even know it  
i gave it to her  
and she said how did you know those are the colors we used  
i said didn't  
it worked out that way  
uh_huh  
yeah  
[lilly] [lilly] she said she said it's for your daughter to use  
oh no  
she said i know she doesn't get to touch it  
she hung it on the wall  
yeah  
yeah  
true  
okay  
you too  
uh_huh  
bye bye  
um i do a lot of cross stitching and painting when i do have spare time  
oh i love it  
that's my case also  
i've got a new born  
and there's just no time  
have you been cross stitching long  
oh really  
mine sort of he looks at the pattern  
and he says how do you get that from there to the material  
oh it's not  
and once you get started on it it's just oh i just i love it  
i do a lot of my own patterns also  
in fact i did one bill the cat you know from [glenn] county   that uh was a real good one to do  
it was tough  
but uh yeah  
do you have any others  
or is this mainly cross stitching  
oh uh_huh  
um   yeah  
i'm still trying to get all the d m c colors  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i got to counting the other day  
and uh i think i have what was it two hundred  
and i got to thinking the money that i've got invested in this is uh  
it yeah it can add up quick  
uh_huh  
right  
i see  
well now can i [improvise] with adding and using another color instead you know what comes close   because a lot of them are similar  
good grief  
yeah  
there's lots of pinks and greens  
there's lots of shades of greens  
but the colors  
i just love all the different colors  
they had quite a few new ones come out last year that they added to  
but you don't have much spare time either  
oh yes  
and that does take some time  
and if we're trying to get acclimated with the uh with having a baby  
and  
he's seven months old  
and just into everything  
so there's not a spare moment  
oh but i wouldn't trade it for the world  
i've been trying to do some bibs for him   and uh work on his christmas [stocking]  
we missed it last year  
so hopefully this year he'll have one  
right  
right  
if it tasted good yeah  
all he liked was the lights this year  
so  
oh well that's neat that you like cross stitching also  
yeah  
oh i'm sorry  
go ahead  
okay uh  
but yeah  
i've been doing it for probably ten years or so  
but it is peaceful  
i mean it is relaxing to do once you find the time to do it  
on that uh  
is it one of those afghans that i've seen in the packages with the with the large squares  
oh uh_huh  
well i've seen the afghans in the stores that are designed for cross stitching  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
yeah  
those are pretty  
oh that's a  
that was a good  
that's great  
uh that uh  
now i've got the material to do an afghan that i just never did get around to finishing it  
i like those  
those are pretty  
yes  
my uh grandmother um made us a couple of quilts for the baby  
and i was like oh i don't want to mess those up  
uh there just too nice  
i mean you don't get many hand made quilts anymore  
oh yeah  
well i've enjoyed this  
but uh well keep up the good um  
keep up the cross stitching  
all right  
thanks  
bye bye  
all righty  
uh i'll just hand it off to you  
and hobbies in our spare time is what we've been selected to discuss today  
oh  
oh really  
well oh hobbies gee whiz  
i guess i got too many hobbies  
so i never have time to deal with them  
i like photography a lot  
uh i used to do that a lot  
and then i like um  
we have a new child that will be a year old here next week  
so i'll take a lot of pictures of her   you know and spoil them  
first one you know how that is  
and um uh i play the guitar and a [banjo]  
i mainly play the guitar a lot  
i play about every night  
and um i really love that  
if i had a [druther]  
if i could have if i could make it on the road i'd like to play on like a bluegrass band or something  
because that's  
i've  
yeah  
i've done it before and when i was in in high school and college   and thoroughly enjoyed it  
and it's really a a blast  
my wife hates it  
but that's the way life is i guess  
exactly  
yeah  
we uh  
she's uh into aerobics  
and uh   and we did aerobics together for about a month and a half  
and that went over real well  
but uh that's about it there  
oh yeah  
yeah  
oh that's great  
that's great  
yeah  
that's uh  
spare time  
with a child it's kind of  
she's  
we have uh  
we're looking for a baby sitter  
so we've been out twice in in this year so far   by ourselves without the child  
so it's kind of uh become an issue you could say  
um hobbies  
i like messing around in your house building things and you know   putting cabinets up and   those kind of things um  
it's really kind of fun  
especially if your spouse will get in there with you and get dirty  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sounds like it  
do you like to cook  
yeah  
i love to cook too  
i'm uh  
oh really  
well we're all skinny [farts]  
so i  
it  
so when it comes to  
i like to cook and eat and   to have mainly i guess i get to  
amount of people eat   and then say man this is really good  
um um but it just  
work in the garden work around the yard of course  
yes  
we sure do  
smoke them  
oh yeah  
all that [hoedown] stuff  
all that stuff that's bad for you  
oh sure  
yeah  
oh yeah  
that's uh   only way to do it  
well yeah  
it's uh it's uh it's uh  
there's uh there's pluses to everything  
but you know seems like there's just so many things to do down here  
i like the sports  
i play a lot of racquetball  
oh that's great  
sounds like you  
horses  
yeah  
you really don't  
yeah  
the  
you have to look real hard to see a lot of things besides concrete uh  
there's buildings and concrete and a lot of people  
and that's about it down here  
and so  
yeah  
but uh that's great  
well sounds like you have a lot of nice hobbies there  
well great  
well look uh  
i know it's probably late for you  
i enjoyed speaking with you  
have a good weekend  
bye bye  
well uh the hobbies that i pursue in my spare time are crafts  
and uh i've been involved in making uh hat stands and uh rag dolls and uh different type hats with uh flowers and roses you know and uh that kind of thing straw hats and   all that kind of stuff  
and i enjoy it  
it's relaxing  
and you kind of get [absorbed] in it  
so the time goes by you know before you realize anything is going on  
and i play the organ sometimes uh just for my own satisfaction not for anybody else's ears  
because i'm not that good at it  
but i like to bang on the keyboards once in a while  
how about yourself  
really  
oh yeah  
that's neat  
oh that's great  
uh_huh  
oh that sounds nice  
i like bluegrass too  
uh_huh  
that's the hard part right  
if you can do things together that really helps a lot  
oh that's good too  
uh_huh  
oh it's good  
and it's healthy too  
we do that too  
we have a uh a treadmill and uh a bicycle and that kind of stuff  
we try to get twenty minutes like at least three for four times a week you know  
yeah  
and we like movies  
that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh yeah  
that's great too  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we did some remodeling when we bought a house  
we built put a kitchen in and um that kind of stuff and painting and some wallpapering  
that's fun  
it is  
it really is  
yeah  
exactly  
i like things that you know two people can do  
but i like the quiet of doing things away you know  
kind of gives you some space for yourself  
and that's what i find in making the dolls and things that it gives me something that i can create  
and i like to crochet and knit  
i made some afghans and that kind of stuff  
i like doing things with my hands  
yeah  
yes  
i love to cook  
italian food  
yeah  
pizzas and [spaghettis] and [lasagnas] and that kind of stuff  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it is  
do you do barbecues  
well uh uh smoking and all that stuff  
yeah  
yep  
i i lived in abilene for a little while   and uh worked in the abilene plant  
and we used to go to joe [allen's] barbecue  
and uh-oh that was great  
really great  
they have some nice stuff down there  
i miss it  
oh yeah  
we did i did horseback riding too  
in fact when my children were growing up we always had horses  
and uh that was kind of for them  
but they weren't as interested in it as we were you know  
so uh that was a real  
i'd say probably for maybe fifteen years we [dabbled] in that you know  
we always had horses around  
and i really enjoyed that  
and i was disappointed when i went to texas  
i didn't see that many of them  
yes  
i know  
i know  
it's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you too  
you too  
okay  
me too  
okay  
bye now  
okay  
i guess its recording  
um what kind of hobbies do you have  
do you sing or knit or anything  
okay  
i uh i started knitting awhile ago  
i [knitted]  
i didn't know even know what the stitch is called  
i just had this uh uh piece of yarn  
and i wanted to start something  
so i remembered something i learned i think when i was five years old  
so i kept doing that  
and now i have a little blanket  
but that's all i've done  
uh  
do you make sweaters and things or just blankets  
uh_huh  
oh  
i see  
huh  
uh_huh  
i probably won't make anything beyond this blanket  
i don't know why  
it's just too time consuming  
um i like to sing  
i've been trying to get some wedding [gigs] and things like that  
um right now my actual job is a news reporter  
but uh if i could do anything i wanted to do it would be to sing professionally  
but um  
yes  
uh_huh  
i'm in uh  
i work for channel six in waco  
and so i do little news reports and things  
it's not as exciting as it   as it sounds  
but um  
no  
not much  
um my day is usually pretty full  
my schedule is like from nine to five thirty  
but i could be at work from anytime you know from nine until nine at night or ten or whatever  
so it's hard to make plans much less you know have a hobby  
and even if i had a hobby like knitting or something and i wanted to take it to work i'd probably never get to it   you know  
so what do you do  
normally  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
i i showed mine to my boyfriend  
and he was like you didn't make that  
oh yeah  
it looks uh halfway decent  
actually first thing i did  
but   yeah  
how many children do you have  
oh okay  
i hear them in the background there  
all right  
that's a hobby in itself  
a job in itself  
right now i was just sitting here watching t v  
i was getting ready to fall asleep  
yeah  
i sang at one last summer  
um it was my first wedding  
i've done um little commercials and background singing  
and um i sang all through college and things like that  
but i really haven't done anything really professional per se  
but i did one wedding last year  
and uh i just now got some cards together kind of uh business cards that say   singer  
and what does it say a song makes beautiful wedding or something  
and i've been passing them out to different wedding shops  
i mean when someone comes in   you know for a wedding for a wedding dress   and they they might ask about it  
this one woman even wanted me to bring my tape in because i have a demo tape you know if any one wants to listen  
and uh she wanted me to bring it in  
she's going to play it on saturday  
so that would be great   if someone came and heard it and they were like i want that voice  
but   i haven't got any calls yet  
but i only just put them out this week  
so   hopefully i'll get some calls in especially now since this it's spring  
and it's the wedding season i guess  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that would be great  
then i could be getting paid for something i love to do  
not that i don't like reporting  
but i'd love it  
no  
i've never i've never had uh formal training  
i've just been singing every chance i get  
i try you know   in school  
and yeah  
choirs  
and um when i was at u t i was in a group called ensemble one oh nine just twelve singers  
and we did uh little conventions and um uh like dinner parties and things like that  
sing pop music  
so that's what got me really really interested in it  
so i'm trying to be sensible sensible too at the same time  
yeah  
exactly  
my parents would have a fit probably  
but uh i think  
i either have a call or  
yeah  
i do have a call  
hold on one second  
hello  
yes  
okay  
that's my mother on the other line  
i need to go  
but um i think we are suppose to talk for ten minutes  
are we suppose to hear a beep or anything  
oh okay  
my mother said ten minutes  
so i don't know  
but uh okay  
well it was nice talking to you  
and   and good luck with your hobbies  
thanks  
bye  
well i um i do cross stitch  
and i enjoy reading and playing softball  
oh really  
well i know that i learned how to knit one time and um made a few things  
but i haven't done it in so long that i probably wouldn't remember how  
well if i remember i think we made some like christmas stockings  
you could make the like the granny squares or whatever   and sew them together and make christmas stockings and maybe some [slippers] or something like that  
nothing as big as a blanket  
i know that my husband's grandmother does a lot of that  
and she makes a lot of afghans and all that kind of stuff  
but  
yeah  
do you have any other hobbies  
oh well that's good  
so are you on the t v then  
oh  
oh okay  
so you don't have too much time for hobbies  
yeah  
yeah  
um  
i'm a housewife  
so unless the kids are asleep i don't get usually get much done either  
but i've made a um few things cross stitch things  
i really enjoy doing that  
and um i made uh like stockings for both my children and a christmas tree shirt and that   type of thing  
and it just takes a long time to get it done  
but you know once you've done something like that it kind of makes you feel good to   to see it  
really  
i guess you can make baby blankets that wouldn't take as long  
two  
yeah  
not quite  
it's a [fulltime] job  
yeah  
so um have you sang at any weddings yet  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh that's a good place  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's good  
yeah  
oh that's true  
make your hobby into a business that would be pretty good huh  
yeah  
did you have training in singing when you were   younger then  
or  
choirs and that kind of stuff  
huh  
well that's nice  
uh_huh  
yeah  
not just give up your job and jump right into it  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh  
i don't know  
i've only done this one other time  
and i thought that the man told me five minutes  
oh okay  
it was nice talking to you too  
good luck with your singing  
okay  
bye  
i guess um i'm going to school while i'm working at t i  
so there's not a whole a lot of time that i've got uh for hobbies it seems like lately  
but one of the things that i do when i've got some spare time is i do some woodworking  
and that oh i guess ranges anywhere from uh carpentry work to um um some types of furniture and um oh i don't know what you would call them [knickknacks] i guess stuff you hang on the wall to put a mirror on  
and i made some um candle [sconces] that you hang on the  
there's something about working with wood that that i enjoy that  
i don't know if it's the saw dust or the mess you make or the smell of the wood  
but  
yeah  
because it's it's out there  
you know i don't have to worry about getting stuff on the carpet except when i track in saw dust  
and the wife gets kind of aggravated about that  
but then i get the opportunity to vacuum  
so i guess i get some of both  
what are some of your things you like to do  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
it's a good time for gardening  
i could do with a little less wind  
but i think the the temperature has been pretty good so far for working outside  
do you find you do most of your your uh crocheting or your knit work around christmas time  
yeah  
well that's kind of what my wife says  
she enjoys doing it during the cold weather because she's always got something to cover her her legs and feet with while she is working on it  
i know it seems like she  
i think she made three this year one for uh my father in law and then a couple of brothers and sisters  
so those things they take some time to make  
well that's kind of like quilting  
i think  
mile a minute  
well i'm not sure what she does  
i i  
first thing that comes to mind is some kind of chain stitch because she starts and goes all the way across you know back and forth until she winds up with this big piece of of afghan  
i guess that is your standard knitting isn't it  
yeah  
i know  
oh okay  
instead of call waiting or call anything else  
well i guess that's that's one way to end a conversation  
yeah  
what  
have you started your garden yet  
um boy  
oh yeah  
always got to have those  
i think i had four uh [jalapeno] plants last year  
i think one of them died  
but i i've got i've put them i chop them up and put them in jars and usually give them away because i there is no way that i can eat all of those  
nobody else in the family likes them  
but always got to the keep those planted  
well that's kind of the way i am um  
i planted uh zucchini last year  
uh i planted four hills of them  
i think i had three or four seeds in each one of them  
and those things just flat took over  
um it wasn't until late i guess in the summer  
maybe it was because it was too dry  
they finally started making zucchini  
and i'm not sure when a good time to plant those is if they should be planted early or later  
it seems like all i got was  
i would think so um  
seems like these all they all went to uh to leaf  
and it wasn't until late in the summer they started making fruit  
so i don't know if i  
mom would say you planted them in the wrong sign of the moon   you know  
but i don't i hadn't looked at a farmers [almanac] to find out when a good time for zucchini is  
it may not be  
it may not be  
you think they're later in the year  
uh  
well that's true  
most of the okra that is growing around higher is is uh later okra  
well that's about um  
go ahead  
well i was just going to say it's a little over six or seven minutes  
so whenever you feel comfortable about [concluding] well i'm  
that would be fine  
well all right  
i guess we'll call this one quits  
an and thanks for participating  
all right  
have a good time  
bye  
yeah  
i have quite a few of those that my uncle made  
as you know i think it's more like the mess you make isn't it  
you don't have to worry about cleaning it up  
well when i have time i do like to sew  
um i had been doing a lot of crocheting  
i make a lot of afghans or used to make a lot of them  
my mother was real heavy into crafts  
and i would help her with whatever she happened to be doing  
and then she would go to these uh arts and crafts shows and sell her needlework  
so a lot of times i'd help her with that  
i haven't had much opportunity to work on any other craft stuff lately  
we've been trying to start up a business and then trying to get my garden going  
oh yeah  
it's been beautiful this last week  
but  
yeah  
i usually start in the fall  
and my husband says i do it you know make afghans so i can keep my lap warm  
yeah  
yeah  
i found one that's real easy  
it's it's um um um  
shoot i can't even remember the name of it now  
but you make it in strips  
and it's real easy to do  
and it's just that it doesn't keep your feet quite as warm because you do it in strips like that  
but it's  
yeah  
yeah  
mile a minute  
that's the name of it  
mile a minute  
yeah  
yeah  
usually single crochet would is is always starts it off  
if we have a problem with our connection and get disconnected some time or other don't worry about it  
we have a a very small phone company down here  
and my husband says that's called [rinky] [dink]  
no  
no  
we can't have that down here  
we get disconnected all the time  
yeah  
well it gets a little aggravating  
i've got kids all over the united states  
and and you know sometimes they get disconnected when i'm talking to them  
yes  
we planted um potatoes and onions and bell peppers  
uh what else did i get in there  
and [jalapeno] peppers  
yeah  
yeah  
oh my husband doesn't like them either  
but i can always give them away  
besides they're fun to grow  
supposedly after the soil warms up  
uh_huh  
i i doubt if zucchini is in there  
probably the same time the the other squash is though  
yeah  
about the same time that you plant okra because it's supposed to be warm  
yeah  
we decided this year  
i'm sorry  
go ahead  
oh just any time  
all right  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
okay  
bye  
okay  
um i guess um this is probably really a good subject for me because i really like to do uh hand work  
uh mostly i do needlepoint i guess  
but um  
um well i've made a lot of baby gifts  
it seem like that's  
like especially lately there's been so many babies that uh bibs and blankets and things like that wall hangings um  
isn't that funny  
no  
yeah  
isn't that funny  
i guess i do have one thing  
a friend of mine gave me a clock kit  
and i i [needlepointed] the face  
and i uh kept that because she gave me that  
so  
oh yeah  
and it's real neat  
um basically the whole  
well no  
i guess the minute marks  
but the minute marks are done they're like hearts  
and then the  
at the numbers they they're kind of outlined and stuff  
it it was quite bit of work  
but you know it was a lot of fun too  
i really like doing stuff like that  
so  
oh what's that  
huh  
wow that's interesting  
what did you what kind of things did you do  
oh  
yeah  
what did you call that  
huh  
that's  
i've never heard of that before  
i've probably seen it though  
i mean when you described it  
yeah  
i mean when you described it it sounded like something you know that would be around i guess  
but i've never heard of it before  
and it's really interesting  
um i guess i've decorated baskets and stuff before in the past  
but i've kind of gotten out of that  
i use to do a lot more and sell at craft shows  
really  
yeah  
it is  
oh basically bows and lace   uh ribbons  
um i really wanted to do  
you know so many of them now have the ribbons where i'm not sure how they do it  
but the ribbons they make them they like  
i don't know how to explain it  
they make them hard you know  
yeah  
i've never done that  
and those are so neat  
i mean i would really like to do those  
but   um  
oh definitely  
yeah  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
that's   i think that's what my concern was was it really sure and how they would how they would last  
you're right  
no  
that's true  
that's funny  
yeah  
i know  
that's funny  
no  
i do some  
i have really gotten out of it  
i don't do it quite as much as i used to um i guess because i i went back to school  
so i don't have as much time  
no  
and i have two children also  
it keeps me very busy  
but i really enjoy it when i do do it when i get the chance you know  
it's really  
it's so relaxing to just sit  
and but once i get started i can't put it down  
i just  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know  
i started a project it's been over a year ago that i swore i was going to finish for somebody for christmas  
that's what i keep telling this person  
well i didn't tell you what year  
um well it's a it's uh cross stitch  
and it's a picture  
and it's a wildlife  
it has deer and trees  
and it's really beautiful  
but it's going to be a lot of work  
and you know i've i have worked on it quite a bit but not as much as i'd like to  
you know it's just so hard  
uh_huh  
well i  
it's counted cross stitch actually is what i'm doing  
and so it's really since it's counted you know it's really a lot of work  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yep  
no  
it really isn't  
and i tell you really i could just kick myself for even starting it because i have a feeling i'm never going to get it done  
i'm probably going to hear about it the rest of my life  
no  
that's true  
i i just don't know when i'm ever  
it just seems like there's just never enough time to pick it up and do it  
you know it's just really hard  
but i really do  
like i said i really enjoy it when i do  
it's just hard  
uh_huh  
and there's there's so many other things that i i have done you know in the meantime like i said so many baby gifts  
i've made a lot of bibs and wall hangings  
and so you know those don't take much time at all  
so it's no big deal for me to pick those up and do them  
no  
i usually just buy a pattern book  
i have several pattern books  
and i just go with those  
and then i buy the bibs separate  
usually i think it's a little bit cheaper in the long run  
and then i just use whatever colors i want to  
i don't usually use the colors they tell me to  
and it it depends on what it is you know  
but some things especially letters if they suggest certain colors for letters i just go with whatever i want to  
yeah  
yeah  
there's yeah there's a few designs i guess i've done myself but not very many  
real simple ones you know i do  
i've made i made a little uh little uh little thumb print and made it a bunny  
it was really easy  
i mean just just did a thumb print you know  
uh_huh  
and then see i didn't cross stitch the actual thumb print  
you know that was just the ink  
and then i made the ears and little eyes and nose and mouth  
that was so simple  
it didn't take anything at all  
uh_huh  
and then i just  
oh really  
what kinds of things have you done  
uh_huh  
do you ever keep any of your stuff  
i do crochet and a lot of uh things like that  
and i have very little of my own stuff  
and it's kind of embarrassing  
people say let me see some of your work  
oh well can you do it  
ooh  
that that would be definitely something you'd want to keep  
was was the whole face done or just the numbers and and like minute marks  
oh  
i did some needlepoint years ago  
and then i got into the [bargello]  
well it's an italian um needlework using using the uh  
i started to say the canvas  
but the uh-huh  
what kind of cloth uses that  
i i've just gone blank  
but it's used with yarn  
and it usually takes long stitches over two or three openings in the cloth  
and you [weave] intricate patterns and use different colors  
like it could be a flame stitch where so rather than drawing a picture you're making a design like a [geometric] or whatever  
and it was used quite often in the colonial times to uh uh to [upholster] chairs and so forth as well as the crewel um embroidery work that was done on them  
what i did when i was doing that was mostly pillows you know for [sofas] and so forth  
and i can't find one that i've done  
it's one of those things  
i i didn't give them away  
but i didn't know if it's been my color choice or multiple moves   or or what  
and it  
i was so proud of them when i got them finished  
but i have no idea where they are  
[bargello]  
it's b a r g e double l o  
i suspect you   i suspect you have  
me too  
yes  
that's interesting  
how did you know to choose this subject tonight  
that's funny  
what  
how did you  
what kinds of decorations did you use with the  
how were you decorating the baskets  
um  
like fabric that's been [stiffened]  
yes  
i've seen some  
and there there they  
i suspect they're fairly simple because the one lady i've seen i know that does it i've never asked her any questions  
but she has three kids all under the age of like six  
and and they're all a handful  
so it's got to be something she can do fairly easily   and fairly quickly  
when i do um crochet it's usually the [lacy] victorian type   things like that  
and i stiffen those with a a glue mixture  
it's like white glue  
and it may be something similar to that that the fabric is dipped in and then um allowed to dry in those those [draping] bows i mean those [draping] [streamers]   i don't know  
i was just  
there's bound to be some kind of fabric [stiffener] like that that's very similar   that's not going to melt too much with uh uh high humidity   in a room  
do you know what my concern is  
how will i dust this thing  
that's terrible  
so many of my crafts  
well right now i'm looking at a little [quilted] uh uh hanging  
it's like it's a flag  
and i don't want to wash it because that would start breaking down the batting and so forth  
but it's such a dust collector to be out and so forth  
and most of my things are dust [collectors]  
uh and i hate to dust  
so first thing i think of is how easy would this   thing be to clean  
oh you don't have time  
you definitely don't have time  
i have a similar problem  
i've got to have time  
or i don't even want to get into it in the first place  
and so i end up lots of time not doing anything at all  
you just didn't say which christmas right  
what was this project  
now this is done in the needlepoint  
yes  
yes  
i do know  
i have done a little bit of that  
but i decided that that's something that demands my my my total attention  
and so i've got to have total almost total silence  
i can't really watch television if the pattern is very intricate  
it sounds like you'd have lots of [shading]   on that particular piece  
it is not does not sound like an easy one to finish  
oh i'm sure you'll get it done  
but it just may not of the original  
obviously not of the original time schedule  
just hard finding the time   that can be dedicated  
do you do you use patterns i mean like a book of patterns  
or do you go out an buy a a kit like for a bib or something like that  
okay  
um  
that's what i would do too  
or whatever i have  
ooh  
what with ink  
oh okay  
oh that sounds really neat  
did you do did you use like uh a stamp pad   and ink  
ok  
so you  
just like being finger printed  
so do you have any hobbies  
yeah uh  
i'm an avid gardener oh  
um i consider that a hobby  
i don't know  
they were like suggesting like [handcraft] things which  
i guess that's a really true true hobby  
but i   i think anything that you enjoy  
um it doesn't really have to matter  
i mean it could be working on cars could be your hobby really  
yeah  
well i don't know  
i told my husband i said you go out some to work on the car  
it's not worth getting all mad and fighting and hollering at each other when it goes wrong  
i says you go pay to have someone do it  
because it always seems it goes wrong when you try to do something  
oh yeah  
um well right now we um start our seeds inside  
we'll start them inside  
and uh  
yeah  
well we usually start them right in the house  
my sister tries to set up a greenhouse on her back deck  
and and the and a wind storm come and knock it down  
but she's had really good luck  
i mean  
next month  
well actually it if you if you start it in a couple weeks and you can get your plants outside pretty much the end of may  
you can leave them outside  
you might put them in the ground just the first week of june  
but we can put potatoes in the ground in the middle of may  
oh  
yeah  
well well we live we live really close to lake [champlain] which is in the [champlain] valley  
so we're a little we're about two weeks ahead of everyone else out on the outskirts  
so  
yeah  
we are a little lucky  
well   my brother lives ten miles from here  
and he gets frost  
and   his crop gets killed  
yeah  
from plattsburgh air force base  
but um  
yeah  
[plattsburgh's] kind of a  
it's uh it's uh depressed economically  
when you go across the lake um  
i don't know why we have so much going for us  
i really don't  
i'm just wrote my resume up because told we might be facing layoff over at digital  
and they've never had well they've had layoffs recently  
but when we got hired here no no never any layoffs never never  
and now we're looking at serious  
i i mean i'm a technician  
when they start getting rid of technicians  
well i interviewed with them  
but i didn't want to go to texas  
even though my um mother's people are from georgia  
yeah  
well i guess we have to get back to hobbies since  
stick on the subject  
well interesting thing that i do is with gardening uh  
my sister grows flowers that you can dry  
and you can make uh dried flower arrangements  
and you can get real handy with the hot glue gun  
and we made some really nice christmas [wreaths] with uh dried red flowers and dried white flowers and uh eucalyptus  
you know what eucalyptus is  
it's  
yeah  
it's got a  
yeah  
at first i'm like oh how why do people like this  
but it it is kind of a nice smell after a while  
people put them in  
yeah  
it's it's it's uh like a fad thing  
i i don't know  
it's i've never heard of it  
in the last five years i've used so much of it that  
i hate  
yeah  
it is  
yeah  
it it looks really [potent] stuff  
but uh it's yeah i think it's the greatest stuff in the world though  
it's jeez  
they i make all kinds of things with it  
we make all kinds of things just with dried flowers  
i i almost want to start a business doing it  
but i don't i i'm so uh [timid] when it comes to starting a business  
yeah  
it is   especially with the being in on the creative aspect and the crafty end  
you know after a while you make some stuff  
then you start looking at it  
go boy this this is kind of ugly  
but i know someone who does a lot of woodworking for a hobby  
um he does it believe it or not i wouldn't imagine why but to get out of the house away from his wife  
because he's a seasonal worker  
he works in the construction  
and up here it's almost a pattern  
and you see your fathers do it  
then their sons do it  
what they do is they work construction  
then they get laid off for like twelve weeks in the winter  
and uh this guy was going nuts  
and his uh son built him a garage and got him some uh-oh i don't know what the [equipment's] called but [planers] and things   and   set him up  
and he makes   all kinds of furniture for um his kids  
and he makes uh uh like little kids' furniture  
he gets right into it  
and uh  
yeah  
it's a   it's a really   good thing because it's keeping him sane  
and plus it's keeping his marriage  
so and and plus he's getting on in his years now  
he's he's not that old  
but he's getting to the point where he needed an extra boost   to to do something like that  
and uh it's really it's it's uh hard work  
i couldn't imagine taking lumber raw lumber and trying to make something out of it  
he   he [dowels] everything  
and it's all got to line up  
it's  
and uh i don't think he [goofs] too much  
i don't to see too much scrap around  
god i'm envious  
is it going to be   is it going to be really dry  
uh are you are you  
now i always plant trees in the fall  
i don't know why  
so the the cold weather can kill them  
but i guess  
oh that's good  
i guess they they say you can plant them in the spring or the fall all  
yeah  
yeah  
and uh   when you have time to do it  
my sister does uh flower gardens  
she gets right into it  
she spends lots of money on them  
and i guess a lot of people do do do that  
they landscape their whole house with flower gardens  
she's got like just a small patch of lawn and just flowers and mulch tree bark all over her lawn  
it gets  
do you have a lot of shade trees around your house  
or is it  
so you don't have a lot of tree coverage  
because going to make  
yeah  
see um uh where my uh well my grandmother passed away but where aunts are they have these huge pecan trees  
and they just shade everything  
uh it's in georgia  
it's yeah it's right outside of [macon]  
and and it's just a  
i like the way that i like the way that idea of the south is  
but when i think of texas i think of nothing but no trees and just grass  
yeah  
so it's that dry heat  
well where is it  
is it wasn't it houston's humid  
yeah  
it's humid  
well right at the present time nothing real special  
i kind of like gardening  
and i'm kind of into camping and you know vacationing that sort of thing  
i don't have any real serious  
oh okay  
i think you're  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
i kind of enjoy doing that a little bit too  
no  
i i guess if you make money at it it becomes a vocation  
yeah  
i guess as far north as you are if you like gardening you've still got a couple months to go haven't you  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
that's right  
you would  
yeah  
in cold frames or whatever the  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i've i've lived in in texas and new mexico most of my life  
but i did once  
i spent one winter in north dakota  
and i i remember that it was on into may before it really started warming up  
and uh  
oh yeah  
okay  
because that kind of moderates the weather a little bit  
yeah  
you're at  
yeah  
you're right across the uh lake from what plattsburgh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i had i had a cousin that was stationed there plattsburgh for a while  
he he remembers lots of snow  
oh really oh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well i'm i'm working for t i texas instruments down here  
oh yeah  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
we're getting to where   we're [straying] i guess  
yeah  
uh_huh  
huh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
the they uh it's sold in the hobby stores and nurseries  
it's got a kind of a peculiar smell to it  
but  
yeah  
i didn't realize what it was for a while  
i'd walk into a room where some of that  
and i'd wonder what is that   you know  
and then one day i i realized that it was eucalyptus  
yeah  
is that the stuff that [koala] bears eat in australia or something  
maybe that's why they're so slow  
i guess they're stoned on the stuff or something  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's a big step  
yeah  
yeah uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
[shapers] and [planers] and   [routers]  
there was a program on t v down here on the educational channel here a while back about a lot of little little companies of one and two guys you know up there  
this particular one i think was in maine and new hampshire where out in the just kind of out in these little towns they'd be in  
they may be the same kind of people you're talking about  
you know they've they've got twelve weeks to do something  
and they they're making furniture and just you know things like that during the winter  
and then they go off and do other things during the summer  
so yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that would be really you know  
like say the  
oh man  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that's that's something  
now our temperatures down here we're starting to get pretty consistently in the seventies and eighties  
and uh so and uh so as far as you know planting outdoor stuff matter of fact tonight i just got through i was planting some some trees out back tonight  
and uh this is uh it's really nice   out tonight  
almost hated to come you know  
yeah  
these were uh   trees that that [wintered]  
i don't know where they came from  
they come out of nurseries mostly in missouri and places like that  
and they come down here  
and they'll sit in the nurseries here  
and they'll go ahead and and uh leaf out  
so what i'm planting or actually [transplanting] is a tree that's or trees that are already [leafed] out  
yeah  
mostly i think in a place where it's really cold they do it in the fall  
let them winter   you know through the fall  
but uh down here well it's done both ways  
it it just kind of depends on what you're what you're planting  
but uh   all the shrubs and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
flowers during the summer down here the the normal kind of flowers there's very few of them that will really do well  
everything does real well here in the spring until about oh first part of june  
and then the the heat sets in  
and june july august are you know  
most of the those kind of plants just are just barely staying alive let alone make flowers  
uh we're in a relatively new area  
we're kind of out of uh the natural tree area  
we're kind of up on a on a higher   on a slope  
so we don't have  
where we are right now there are very few trees  
this was this was this was pasture land  
but down the down the hill here a little ways there are parks that are look like [jungles] you know  
they're really  
uh_huh  
now where is this  
in georgia  
yeah  
yeah  
well i tell you what  
now see east texas  
there's two parts of texas east texas and north texas  
atlanta and dallas are almost identical in every way weather and everything  
the two cities are very very identical  
so if you were familiar with atlanta uh  
uh well no  
it's it's uh not dry at all  
it it's humid  
houston is awful  
houston is really humid  
no  
okay  
what kind of hobbies do you have  
uh_huh  
i like to read too  
i was trying to think of some while while it was uh talking about it  
and then i  
it took so long for someone to answer  
i started reading the   newspaper and kind of forgot about it  
but uh yeah  
i'd say reading is probably one of my biggest ones because it's the type of thing that you can you can do a little bit at a time whereas i would love to do crafts and stuff if i just had the time to do it   or if i had the space  
i live in a pretty small apartment  
and uh i would have to you know put stuff away  
i have two cats  
so i couldn't really leave it out if i was working on something  
reading is a little bit easier to work around  
that's right  
that's true  
i do the same thing  
what types of crafts do you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
i enjoy uh sewing and needlework also  
i've i've uh made some small things cross stitch things  
and um   back when i was in high school i worked at a needlework shop  
and i i used to do the latch hook rugs and needlepoint and things like that  
and i i still remember how to do it  
it's just been so long since i've actually sat down and taken the time to do something like that  
but i have recently done some cross stitch  
and i enjoy doing that  
it's just the same old thing  
it's just getting the time to do it  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it takes a lot of concentration  
i mean it was the type of thing  
i was i was making some little things for christmas  
and i also made a little thing for a baby gift  
and uh i thought oh i can do this while i watch t v  
wrong  
no  
you must pay all attention to what you're doing  
it's it is a lot more difficult than it seems like it would be  
it took me uh quite a bit of time  
i though oh this won't take long at all  
but   i was wrong  
it took it took a while to do  
but it was fun  
i enjoyed it  
oh my gosh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's pretty understandable  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i'm trying to think of anything else i do as a hobby um i don't even watch t v very much  
i was tonight  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
i do i do like to go to movies  
and i have a v c r  
so i like to rent movies  
and um i have right now i have the movie channel  
so i've recorded quite a few movies off of that um  
just i've kind of got a collection going of tapes now  
and whenever i go visit my parents they're always saying well bring some of your tapes  
they always borrow a few of them  
i was over there  
they live in duncanville  
and i was over there at easter  
and they said bring some tapes with you  
so they are always borrowing my tapes  
but uh  
i like to i like to do uh stuff with plants  
i like um i have a lot of plants in my apartment  
and i've got a pretty small porch  
but it's it's uh  
i've got a few [planters] out there that i i'll uh you know  
in the winter time i usually plant some pansies in there  
and then in the summer i'll plant petunias  
or something that's colorful  
and like that blooms a lot  
but   haven't done that yet  
i kept thinking that it was going to get cold one more time  
but i think we're probably past that now  
i probably should go buy some  
i guess if i had a house i might enjoy gardening some  
i'm not real crazy about pulling weeds and things like that  
yeah  
i like the planting and watering is okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i don't know too much about it either  
mine's pretty limited to my little uh porch plants  
and then the ones in my apartment half of which don't look real healthy  
but i don't always get direct sun except in certain spots  
and so that's probably my problem there  
but  
no  
i never have tried that just because i don't have that much space on this little porch here in this apartment   or this little balcony  
and my other two pots are  
they're kind of they're pretty big  
and i have enough plants in them that it takes up a lot of my porch area  
so between that and the chairs and the barbecue grill and the fireplace wood   there's no room for much else  
but my dad uh my dad used to grow tomatoes and things at the house  
and i'd i think when i was real little i probably had a finger in on that every time he did it   and had to be out there and watch and that type of stuff  
but i've never really tried anything like that since then  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
right  
well i enjoy playing with my cats  
i don't know if you'd call that a hobby  
but i have two cats  
and i gave them a bath tonight  
so they're a little bit angry at me  
they didn't like it too much  
yeah  
oh yeah  
right in the tub  
and it helps because its the time of the year that they're [shedding] a lot and cleaning cat fur off the couch and off the floor is not a hobby of mine  
so i thought   [this'll] help you know help them shed  
and sure enough boy the fur just came off like crazy once i got them   in the tub  
so they're pretty content now  
but they were mad at me for quite a while  
they went and [hid] after they after they got dried off  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i like both  
but since i'm in an apartment i just i don't think an apartment is big enough for a dog  
dogs to me dogs need a yard even little dogs  
they just need a yard  
cats can deal with being inside all the time just fine  
but i just think dogs need need to be outside though  
so  
yeah  
now that's an idea  
with the small babies  
yeah  
because you kind of  
even even a cat you never know when they might bite or scratch or something  
there not as likely to as a dog might i guess  
but with little ones i'd be kind of scared to get anything that has teeth or claws  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
probably  
so and i'm out of out of good ideas for a hobby anyway  
well it was good talking to you  
all right  
bye bye  
um mostly what i do  
i do do some crafts like it mentioned in the thing  
and then i i read a lot  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you can pick it up and take it wherever you go   any space  
i get too involved in reading sometimes that i neglect what i should be doing  
you get so involved in what you're reading  
i do a little bit of woodworking  
well i used to  
i don't have the equipment here  
we moved to dallas about a year ago  
and my dad had a lot of woodworking equipment  
and i did some of that um  
here i've mostly done things that i can do strictly by hand um sewing and quilting and um  
what else have i done  
things to hang on the wall  
mostly just stuff that i can you know use right around the house   or give away as gifts  
i've been making a lot of quilts well not a lot but several quilts lately  
so  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've done some cross um cross stitch  
but i never count right  
and i always have to either take it out or have my picture slightly off centered   or or something  
it never has worked out completely  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
the first project i started out one was a big one  
it was uh it was of a lady  
and she was [kneeling]  
and it was about fifteen by twenty maybe  
and i  
it was just too much to start with  
and i still haven't finished it because i i stopped  
and i thought i better do some simple things and work up to this   because it was just so difficult   to get it done  
and there were so many different [shadings] and colors  
and and it was just too much to begin with  
and i think kind of discouraged me from doing much more with it  
and i've done some of the crewel and the um   something similar to that  
but it doesn't have the specific stitches  
anyway it's a little bit more loose and not quite as structured  
and i like that a little bit better   the variety of stitches and stuff in that  
more like embroidery or something  
yeah  
i was reading when you called  
how about movies  
do you like to go to movies  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it's the hard work  
it's so nice though when you have a nice yard full of flowers  
it's so  
i mean we don't  
we live in an apartment also  
i've got a few plants here  
but i'm not really knowledgeable  
i feel real good if i water them  
and they continue to grow  
you know i feel like oh i've accomplished something  
so i enjoy it  
but i'm just not experienced enough with  
it   uh_huh  
oh yeah  
have you tried any growing any um like fruits and vegetables or anything  
i guess vegetables are in like in pots and stuff  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i considered it last year  
and this year both  
but i haven't done anything about it  
so i think it would be nice to just go out and pick some tomatoes off the porch  
we get lots of [sunlight] here  
and the porch is screened in  
and it's pretty large  
so um i think if i just would be  
if i'd do something be motivated enough to do something i think it would work out well  
but but there goes that motivation thing again  
can you   can you put them right in the water  
oh that's good  
oh yeah  
[sulked] for a while huh  
well i like animals  
but we don't have any yet  
we have a nine month old with another on the way  
and we thought well maybe when they're a little bit bigger   then we'll  
or get into a house with a little more space  
i'd love to have have some animals  
but i like dogs  
and my husband likes cats  
so we haven't reached a real agreement on that yet  
if we get a place where we can have both it'll be great  
but until then  
uh_huh  
i agree with you  
i  
if we were going to get anything now it would definitely be a cat or even a bird or a fish tank or something you know   something small  
that she can watch but won't take too much care  
uh_huh  
especially when they're not quite to the age of understanding that they're hurting you know  
that  
they grab hold with both hands and then just jerk  
and if i was a cat or dog i'd respond probably by biting or something  
i don't know  
that'd be my self defense  
but   well i think we probably reached our time limit  
oh okay  
thank you for calling  
bye bye  
okay  
uh_huh  
um i like to do like physical things like sports  
um i really enjoy softball  
and my favorite is volleyball  
and but i'm at school  
i'm in you know  
i i live up at the college   so sometimes it's hard for me to do that  
so i just like sometimes  
i like just to get away  
i go to my room and i like walk in turn the radio on or you know just kind of like [veg] out or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i like to do that stuff but when i'm in like when i'm at school i don't have time to do it or even time to learn how to do it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
like um i have i come from a family of twelve children  
and when i'm up here i really miss my younger brothers and sisters  
so you know that's that's a change because there's nine of them that are younger than me  
i'll call like when i know my mom and dad aren't home i'll call home just to talk to my little brothers and sisters  
i i really miss them a lot  
so i don't  
i guess talking on the phone is one of my hobbies too  
yeah  
well i'm not much of a basketball fan either  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
um not that i like reading but i do do a lot of reading while i'm here at school  
do you like reading as a hobby  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
do you um  
i know one thing that's pretty popular with the girls up here at college and i make them also is the padded covered photo albums  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i know they're real popular here at school also  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i really don't have any other  
uh_huh  
it was nice talking to you too  
thanks  
bye bye  
hi  
i uh i like i love to do uh all kinds of crafts and sewing  
i i find that's my one release  
so   what do you do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i have two small kids  
and so i i don't have you know much time to to go places and play sports you know  
i have to do something where i can do it at home  
so i'm uh i just love to sew  
and uh you know i i make a lot of my christmas presents  
and i love to do all kinds of crafts and stuff like that  
no  
i remember when i was in college  
i didn't have time to do that stuff either  
it was really  
but now you know i don't have a whole lot of time now but i have more time than i did  
so  
and a lot of my sewing i kind of do out of necessity you know  
for  
you know i've got two kids to put clothes on  
so  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i  
yeah  
i just uh have you know one brother and he's married  
and you know they have a couple kids  
so i you know i don't have uh you know i don't get on the phone too much  
but yeah  
most of my stuff is just going  
you know i enjoy going places with my kids  
and i do like sports but i'm you know i don't have a lot of time for them  
my  
i like volleyball  
of all sports i think that would be my favorite because i hate basketball  
an an   yeah  
i enjoy playing volleyball but i you know i i don't have a lot of time to do it  
so  
it's maybe once a year or something  
an  
and then i you know used to play it a lot when i was in school  
but now that i'm married and stuff i you know i've like i'm really bad  
nobody would want me on their team  
i'm the you know i'm the [opposing] teams best player so so to speak  
so  
but yeah  
i enjoy um you know just  
i you know i have varied interests and stuff  
and yeah  
so  
uh_huh  
uh i love to read but i you know i don't have a lot of time to read an   you know what reading i do i kind of do because it's you know it's the necessary stuff  
as far as fun reading you know i maybe get to read the sunday paper but that's about it you know  
so  
yeah  
i don't have a lot of time to read  
i yeah i remember in college i did a lot of reading most of it text books  
so  
and just  
you know keeping busy with everything else going on  
so but yeah  
i i like to do uh  
i've made stuffed cows you know dress you know dolls  
they're like dolls  

you know you make clothes for them and everything like that  
they those have been real popular with my family  
i've had them calling up and saying will you make me another one  
and   so i do things like that you know  
if i had more time i'd probably do it and sell the stuff  
but you know i don't have enough time to do it to really you know take orders on it  
you know it's like i can only do it when i have time  
i have a whole stack of material and patterns to sew up as it is  
so  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
i do  
i've done those too before  
yeah  
those are real  
i i have a several of those that i've made like as wedding gifts you know  
i made them out of all lace and and [satin] you know and made them as wedding gifts and stuff like that  
so  
those are real popular  
in fact i got some of those for my wedding  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
those are fun to do  
and just little things you know  
i i didn't have a lot of  
when i was in college i did you know   i did sewing for other people when i had time you know  
like if somebody needed a [bridesmaids] [maids] dress made i'd make that  
but that's about all the sewing i did  
i never had time for you know to sew myself a new dress or anything like that  
so but yeah  
i just kind of sew for my kids  
and that's about it  
so  
well i guess maybe we've covered the topic pretty good  
yeah  
i'm not too much uh you know  
i don't have a lot of hobbies  
mine are just mostly you know things i just do out of necessity  
okay  
well it's been nice talking to you  
good luck in school  
bye bye  
so what kind of neat hobbies do you have  
i like gardening  
i wish i had a green thumb though  
i've got a brown thumb  
that's what everything turns  
i keep trying uh you know  
you just can't can't give up on it uh  
i uh i bought some uh plants from michigan bulb company  
they send them to you all ready alive  
oh really  
i guess i guess these are going to [croak] too  
since i've got cats i decided to get some catnip  
lots and lots of catnip  
so it's it's still green  
and it's been two days  
so i'm encouraged  
yeah  
yeah  
there's a uh  
i don't know  
do you have [lowe's] up there  
its uh  
building uh  
or building supplies place  
um they they also have a garden shop  
and   they they offer just as good a guarantee if you buy it from them  
yeah  
um  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
something like that  
uh i got a whole bunch of bulbs along with this stuff  
so i'm going to wait on those  
uh probably spring  
but uh i don't much care about things like that  
i'll i'll make a little sort of greenhouse a miniature greenhouse to put all this stuff in  
something something to keep me occupied you see  
i'll uh buy some plastic and make a little house  
and  
yeah  
and watch the cats tear it up  
they they just like to get in and dig  
oh they love to dig  
i had i had some uh  
i don't know what kind they are  
i've already forgotten  
just regular old flower seeds  
and i planted them  
and i was so i was so thrilled because they came up i mean nice green shoots coming up all over the place  
and then my cats got into it and started digging and that took care of that  
so i have to hang these things high  
so they can't get to them  
especially the catnip  
three  
um yeah  
yeah  
because they they like to get in and fertilize things too  
but uh why would it be illegal  
oh uh yeah  
right  
well if nobody yeah if nobody complains you're all right  
um  
um yeah  
an  
and if somebody raises a stink about it you can always go before the association and argue your case anyway  
you know you don't have to put up with all these wild critters coming into your property  
yeah  
right here [bambi]  
uh gosh  
well let's see  
other than gardening which i fiddle at  
i'm not very good at  
what else do i mostly just computer stuff  
i just like playing with my computer and doing stuff on that  
uh cooking that's not really a hobby  
it's a necessity  
but but i enjoy it  
i like to think that i'm a very good cook  
um hobbies  
that's about it  
i don't have much time for hobbies uh between being a student and trying to run a business on the side  
you don't have a lot of time  
yeah  
and raising cats  
well it's it started out as a hobby actually  
uh it just it developed into sort of a business uh you know  
we breed them and all that  
but we didn't you know we didn't really start it for the money  
it was just  
they were fun to have around  
and we figured if we're going to have them we might as well have some [purebreds] an  
and now it developed in to going to cat shows and finding [studs] for them and you know all this kind of stuff  
uh i've got a uh a [bombay] a turkish van and a himalayan persian  
yeah  
the himie is probably the [sweetest] one  
she's she's just a little sweetheart  
we uh  
the the [bombay] had a litter uh last october  
and  
i just got her back from the vet this morning getting her spayed  
only going to breed them once  
and uh she's not she's not feeling too great today  
no  
uh most breeders are in it for the money  
so they'll they'll breed them twice a year  
and i   i just think that it's kind of i don't know it's kind of cruel  
you know they just they just breed these they breed them before they're ready  
uh and   you're never you're never  
and and they they do a lot of [inbreeding] too  
and so you end up with you know kind of strange kittens  
and i just don't like that  
we're we sold all that litter  
um we  
there's not that much call to for [bombays]  
um they're they're registered  
but they're not they're not uh they're not show cats  
uh so all you can do is sell them as pet quality  
uh so what you've got is a registered pet  
and not too many people want [bombays]  
they want things like himie [persians] and turkish vans  
turkish vans if you've never seen one i mean you wouldn't know that it was a pure bred  
it's just uh medium size short hair cat  
it's got  
he's mostly white with uh brown and black [patches]  
but they have nice personalities  
and they're very [inquisitive]  
um now the himie we'll probably breed her a couple of times  
and we'll we'll end up keeping one out of each litter and then breeding those  
it's just the stud fees are so much though  
it'll cost about three hundred dollars for a stud for her  
we we want to breed her with a champion  
so  
yeah  
the persian is  
and the other two are short hairs  
yeah  
she's uh she's sweet  
going to have some nice kittens i hope  
she's uh she's  
if if you know what a himalayan is generally they look something like uh  
well they come in a lot of different colors  
people don't realize it  
but they're sort of like uh siamese in a way  
they have the uh they have the gloves on the [paws]  
and they're they're usually two colored  
uh but this one is uh is  
she's predominantly uh black  
but she has chocolate uh [paws] chocolate stomach and silver on her [hindquarters]  
and yeah  
she's she's quite attractive looking  
hope hope the stud will find her attractive  
and and that she has a whole bunch of kittens  
but we have to be careful  
uh you know we have to get a particular color point uh stud  
you can't just breed them with anything  
we have to get a uh we have to get a silver point himie  
so that the silver will be [predominate] in the kittens  
that's it that's the fun part trying to figure out what you've got to breed them with  
can't just go out there and say okay you guys breed you know  
that's right  
well actually i mean it it is a business in a way  
but it it's a lot of fun as a hobby especially when you go to shows and get to see all the different cats  
we're we're about to get another breed  
we're we're going to buy a devon [rex]  
and i didn't i don't like devon [rexes] at first  
it's a well actually it's a mutant  
it it comes from england and uh in the county of devon  
and it's a mutant cat  
and they're they're pretty expensive  
we're going to we're going to shell out probably about a thousand bucks for one  
um they're very thin  
they're they're they're long and [lanky] and skinny  
and they have real short hair  
it's curly as a matter of fact  
um yeah  
it it it's a strange looking cat  
uh i didn't like them at first  
they've got great big ears  
well i like gardening a lot  
i like to be outside um  
oh is  
but do you keep trying anyway  
no  
no  
i've never had any luck with [their's]  
right  
oh  
no  
i i haven't had had good luck with that company uh  
i think some of it depends how long things stay in the mail probably  
but i've had to to get my money back from them and had better luck with with some of the the more expensive companies  
because they  
uh well  
no  
uh_huh  
oh that's great  
now our local stores don't don't offer any guarantee  
but some of the  
the mail order ones that i've dealt with for roses and that they offer through through the first summer   which at least if they if they take off the first year they're probably going to come up unless there's uh a terrible freeze or something  
oh they're bulbs for spring or fall  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
cute  
right  
i don't know that  
do cats bother bulbs  
i think more the mice or other [rodents]  
oh i see  
so if you have fresh dirt they'll  
uh gee  
how many cats do you have  
oh okay  
actually i just put a uh little fence around my yard uh um which is i suppose technically illegal  
but i had so many [groundhogs] last year that i think they'll let me get by with it  
and it it's got this one inch [mesh]  
and what i've noticed it's kept the cats out  
and i love it  
well because we have these uh  
i live in a townhouse  
and anyway all of our areas have associations that you have to get permission  
and you know they want uh privacy fences  
right  
right  
well they do walking tours too  
so  
but at least because i back up to um a hillside where the uh wild animals are i think i can probably justify it  
right  
right  
i  
right  
the first year the deer ate my garden  
and i was just astounded  
i'm going deer right here in the city  
exactly  
and so  
oh  
oh great  
right  
that keeps you busy  
i mean that could become a hobby  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what kind of cats are they  
wow  
oh okay  
um is that typical to only breed them once  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so will you uh breed one of the litter then next year  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
right  
right  
now these are long haired  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh that's nice  
uh_huh  
gee  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
and that she has kittens that look like her  
i see  
you can't just tell them that anyway  
but  
oh dear  
well it really sounds like uh uh a business more than a hobby  
what is it  
oh  
um  
huh interesting  
okay  
my hobby is uh sewing  
i i've just uh started learning how to sew  
and uh i've taken some classes  
and i've made a few few [garments]  
do you sew at all  
did you  
oh  
oh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh clothes are getting so expensive now in in the stores  
and the the quality is is sometimes so poor that   uh it it really is worth while to sew  
right an  
yeah  
it certainly is  
and the patterns have gone up tremendously too the prices for them you used to could get you know a pattern for two or three dollars now they're like you know five six seven eight  
oh no  
i'm not  
huh_uh  
no  
the the cheapest ones now are like maybe uh four or five dollars   six seven  
and then you get into the [vogues]  
they get up into twelve and fifteen and   on like that  
uh right now i'm just sewing for myself  
i i do have two daughters that you know out they're they're grown now though  
i wish that i had started sewing you know when they were younger  
and uh it would have helped me out tremendously  
but um oh i guess i i just you know i always i have always tried to sew  
and uh i didn't like the way it looked so i'd never wear anything  
but now i i have bought some uh new sewing equipment  
i bought the singer machine  
and   uh it really makes it look professional  
and i've taken some classes here in in uh dallas  
yeah  
right  
i know a lot of people where i work make their clothes  
it's just there's just so many people sewing now days  
uh_huh  
no  
i'm not that talented  
right  
i have a sister that can can uh crochet real well   or or knit i i guess i mean knit  
and she [knits] things like hats   and uh sweaters an you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
yeah  
now now they have the uh knitting machines that will do it for you  
um  
are you familiar with what a serger is uh the serger sewing machine  
well you know in when we used to sew we'd sew the seam  
and then we'd finish the edges  
and we we would uh trim the seams and finish the edges  
well this machine does it all in one step  
right  
and it's cutting off the uh  
the there there are two knives  
and it cuts off the uh you know excess seam allowance  
right  
and uh it it really makes it look professional  
especially on you know i mean from the inside you know how you look under under something that you've made  
and it doesn't really  
but uh the serger really makes it look professional  
they're pretty expensive  
i like  
i paid like about eight hundred dollars for mine  
uh_huh  
so since i bought it and paid that much for it i guess i'd might as well get some use out of it  
yes  
i'm going to have to do it  
right  
yeah  
no  
no  
i i play the piano  
oh you do  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i'm not that great either  
i used to be a lot better than i am now  
i i have played for uh the church choir  
and uh   i played for the choral club in high school  
and but i you know i don't practice a lot anymore  
and uh you know you get rusty  
you really  
i never thought i would get rusty  
but i'm rusty now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
well sewing does take up take an awful lot of time takes an awful lot of time  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
on the on the   right on the straight grain   and all that stuff  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that that's that's the part that i don't like too  
yeah  
i i like sewing sewing up the [garment] itself  
i really like to do that  
but the the cutting and the all the  
even the cutting i don't like  
well that's about it really  
it's it has four uh four threads instead of the the regular basic two threads  
and uh it  
no  
you you can either use three or four of the threads  
uh it's kind of it the stitch is kind of like a knitting machine like the they're [loopers] under the bottom  
and then the there's a seam stitch  
and it's the [loopers] that form the the edge you know that edge finish  
and uh that's what really makes it look professional  
you can do a lot with the serger though  
you can make uh [piping] and [cording]  
and uh you can use all kinds of different uh [textures] of thread  
well yes  
but you you have to use it in combination with a sewing machine  
you can't throw your sewing machine away  
you you need it to do things like button holes   and uh seams that need to be really strong need to be done on the sewing machine  
it's uh  
no  
it's it's a it's a it's a machine  
it's not exactly a sewing machine  
but it it does sew the seam and trim the edges and all that stuff  
but there are are other things that a regular sewing machine does that it doesn't do like you can't top stitch with it  
you know you can't do top stitching  
or um there's there's a few things that you just can't do with it  
it will also do a rolled edge um  
gee it's just so versatile  
i uh  
why don't you go ahead and start  
i used to uh  
i i sewed you know in high school  
and when i went to college i think everything in my closet i had made  
but i haven't sewed since then  
and that's been fifteen years  
so uh you know i didn't have access to a machine the whole time i was in college  
and uh my sister sewed  
and she needed the money so i would pay her  
and she'd make my clothes  
and uh and then just in the last you know ten or i just haven't sewn anything  
i would love to i would like to get back to it  
yeah  
it is you know an even back then  
i remember you could make something for you know half what it cost to buy  
and of course the quality was just exceptional  
uh now it's a little more expensive to make it because you know you start paying the price for the patterns and the material  
but it's still such better quality that i think it's worth it  
you're kidding me  
see i can remember paying seventy five cents for a pattern  
uh_huh  
good night  
well do you have kids and a husband  
are you sewing for a whole family  
or  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well and that always is helpful for starters  
you know you have to have something that kind of gets you on the right track of where you're going  
that's true  
well do you do anything  
do you knit or crochet like for sweaters or anything like that  

see i'm i've not ever been a real craft type person  
i have a sister in law that i mean if it can be done with your hands she does it  
she makes things for the kids for christmas and nephews and nieces  
and i look at them  
and i think god you know i i should be able to do things like this  
yeah  
yeah  
well when my sister oh when my sister had her first uh child my niece   and this is we're talking fifteen years ago i was it was my last year of college  
and i asked my roommate if she would teach me how to crochet granny squares  
so she did  
and i crocheted a blanket for my sister's baby  
and i started crocheting a king size bedspread for a guy that i was dating at the time  
and when we broke things off  
actually we were supposed to get married when i got out of college  
so when we broke things off i quit crocheting it  
and i've never picked up a needle since then  
in fact i think it's still sitting in the top of the closet  
one of these days i keep thinking i'm going to finish it because it would make a really pretty bedspread  
but  
fast  
my problem i guess is time you know  
i i talk to my husband  
we kind of planning for the time eventually when you know maybe i can quit work while my kids because i my kids are young  
i have a three and a half and a two year old  
and he says  
but [bev] i think you'll be so bored because you know all you've ever done is work  
and i said but there's so many things i want to do  
i'd like to start sewing again  
i'd like to learn how to do this cross stitch and these you know knit these things  
and i think that would be fascinating  
he kind of laughs  
i don't think so  
sure  
uh_huh  
you're kidding  
so like as you're sewing the seam it's finishing off the inside edge  
well that takes all the work out of it  
well how neat  
uh_huh  
well that's neat  
for the machine  
yeah  
you have to learn how to do it  
that's right  
otherwise they hold it over your head forever right  
now i bought you that machine  
well that sounds really good  
do you paint or anything like that  
never  
oh so do i  


well i have one here  
it's the one that i grew up with  
and my folks gave it to me  
and uh a couple years ago when they they sail  
and so they sold their home  
and they they've been sailing  
and uh so it's here  
but i haven't touched one like since college so i kind of am picking it all out again and trying to remember how to do it again  
and of course my kids jump in the middle of it and want to pound on it  
and i'd love to teach them to play too  
so i'm not great  
but i remember it  
yeah  
you do  
you do  
well i i figure it takes practice  
and i i don't i say i don't have the time  
that's not true  
by the time i put my kids in bed at night i don't want to do anything  
i you know i've worked all day  
and i come home  
and i do that  
i and you know even hobbies and crafts and sewing things like that i i think gee i could do this or that  
i have an hour here  
i don't want to do them sometimes  
i'm too tired  
so i try to save that for the weekend  
i need to get better at it though  
now the part about sewing that i never liked was laying out the material and the pattern and cutting it out  
if if somebody would lay it out for me then i didn't mind cutting it out and sewing it  
i could do that all day long  
and i i can remember once in high school i wanted some extra money  
and my mom wanted some pants  
so she laid out the material  
and i cut it and sewed it  
and she paid me i think like two dollars a pair to make her some pants  
but i i hate laying out material and trying to get the most out of the material and   make sure it's on the right lines and not on the bias  
yes  
on the grain of the fabric  
it drives me crazy  
yeah  
well what are some of the other features on this machine  
it sounds wonderful  
oh okay  
is that for designs  
or is that for the regular seam in the fabric  
or  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
so it has the ability to do just about any type of sewing you want to do  
uh_huh  
so the serger is not a sewing machine itself  
it's something that goes with it  
like an attachment  
or  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
well i'm going to have to go check it out  
that's just something i hadn't heard of  
but it  
so the the topic is hobbies  
yeah  
who has spare time  
um i don't really don't really do any handicraft things like that  
i used to i used to do like salt ornaments and things  
but that was oh good many many years ago  
and   i have i really my spare time  
i usually go do aerobics and read  
and that's   about it  
yeah  
yeah  
family  
well well that's what i meant by salt that we we did that like as a family little ornaments and   things like that and just kind of really got into it like during the christmas season   making them up for other people and things like that  
but   as far as  
i've just never been very skilled at   far you know needle   work cloths  
and the things i've tried to do just don't look very good  
and  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's not   like you sit and knit every night  
yeah  
i don't even know how to knit  
and my mother used to knit you know   all the time  
and and i don't even know how to knit  
i'm like that's a lost art from this family  
so um  
but it's not a very good topic  
it feels like   if you know  
not when you're  
neither one of us are really  
i i have seen things i really like   you know that were done especially like needlepoint  
needlepoint   [cushions] and things  
but it just seems like there'd be so much time involved in it   you know and and that the petty point and things like that  
it's like god it it seems like it's easier just to go out and buy it already made  
yeah  
yeah  
and see they do that as their job whereas   you know for us it  
and they make it cheaper for us to buy  
so  
but and i mean i'm sure it must be relaxing to do things like that  
because i can remember when i used to do you know those little salt those figurines and things  
it was it was relaxing you know creative  
you felt very creative  
but it just was so time time   involved you know so much time involved and the different steps and things  
so  
and  
yeah  
so  
okay  
i hope you have a good rest of your weekend  
okay  
bye bye  
in your spare time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i understood that  
i'm you know i work full time  
and i have two kids  
so my spare time usually involves something with the kids  
you know hobbies  
we i i can't really say that we have hobbies  
it's more like maybe projects or something on the weekend  
you know we like to go out   go out  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i guess mostly as far as as crafts go i've done um some needlepoint  
i've done mostly cross stitching  
i used to uh do like um  
one that i did for both kids are like oh  
they're [plaques] with you know different kind of animals  
and then you have their birth date on them  
and then you have a little picture of them  
and you frame them and stuff  
but nothing steady  
just when i get some spare time here and there i'll work on it  
but you know it's nothing that i   can really  
no  
not at all  
uh_huh  
yeah  
no  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know what what is  
it's like there  
but here a lot of the country stuff is in you know a lot of the woodwork a lot of uh stenciling  
and you know you can go to any like a flea market and stuff  
and there's just tons of stuff everywhere  
and   you know people just do it in their garage  
and then on weekends they go out and sell it  
and during the week they go back and do some more  
right  
yeah  
definitely  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
okay  
well i think i think we're okay  
i think we did the five minutes  
so we don't have to keep talking about nothing anymore  
okay  
well thank you  
thanks  
bye bye  
so the general topic is hobbies  
let's hear about your hobbies  
any [handicrafts]  
any [handicrafts]  
so um i think i'm in handicraft  
i think it will become resume writing  
uh yeah  
i i hate to think about it  
and and i'm getting rather good at reading want ads  
yeah  
it it  
i  
who knows  
no  
all means about fifteen to twenty percent   of of oh  
i'm sure the numbers somewhere classified  
but some of the internal news and the news services  
so it's approximately six fifty  
so ten percent of six fifty is sixty five  
and twenty percent would be one thirty  
yeah  
that's possible  
oh yes  
uh i saw seven eleven that was hiring  
yes  
yeah uh  
no  
[apple's] coming to town  
and   and that has some opportunities  
and uh and  
colorado springs specifically  
yes  
and uh and uh m c i coming if if telemarketing is your bag  
personally i'd rather die a slow painful death  
but  
uh i'm a defense worker  
i'm government tool control specialist  
are you still employed  
oh  
exempt or  
oh yes  
oh so you didn't even get the [severance] package  
so are you happy with what you are doing now  
yeah  
good  
good  
well it hasn't been a long time t i  
or i   i'm significantly [shaken] by the situation   but not devastated  
to tell you the truth i'm i'm i'm not really worried  
and and i seem rather happy about it most of the time   just just to know what's possibilities are   you know what might happen  
but still in all   it feels funny  
so despite the fact that i should be tying flies or fly fishing or or going for walks in the mountains   i can't seem to get into it right now  
uh [situational]  
i've i doubt i'll be here in six months  
i  
all things being equal yes  
but or or even somewhere better  
but god this is much better than west texas  
but then they they tell me hell is much better than west texas  
i my little brother lives in austin right now  
goes to u t  
i see that's the problem  
for the last many years i've more or less let them direct what i want to do   and where i want to go   and just kind of go with the [punches]  
and now i feel lost  
oh i had job offers  
but i never found the one that was worth it for me to leave  
and that  
oh so had you been with t i long when you changed  
huh well there's a noticeable difference there  
i've been with them sixteen  
actually seventeen now  
and oh yeah  
[momentum] is uh driving force in our lives  
but so yeah  
i'm looking as as a opportunity  
and and i'm looking at it as a change  
and i'm looking at it as as an adventure  
and maybe i'll wet a fly line this year and do some camping if i don't get laid off between now and then  
ha how about we end this  
nice talking to you  
bye  
yes  
well let's see  
what kind of hobbies do i have  
i guess uh i it's more not so much a hobby but things i enjoy doing  
i enjoy playing basketball and and basically all kinds of sports  
and uh  
excuse me  
no  
not not really um  
no  
i'm really not too creative  
well i uh you know around with my hands and things like that  
i leave that more up to my mom  
oh yeah  
oh well let's hope that you you aren't employed by that craft for too long  
uh_huh  
what kind of time frame is it uh looking for the uh different shifts up there  
is it uh  
basically i had read that they're just looking at relocating them all to mckinney is it texas  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
wow  
how about that  
yeah  
that's what it did report was a hundred and thirty relocating down to mckinney  
how about that  
well that's uh that's unfortunate  
is there many other  
are you in the defense  
is it uh many other corporations in the area  
well i'm sure with the new uh contract awarding  
i i think it went to [lockheed] didn't it  
that uh i hear they're hiring all over the place for that  
oh really  
now is that ad good just to colorado or to colorado springs  
how about that  
uh_huh  
well you in the uh computer operations or in the actual uh manufacturing  
right  
yeah  
that's why i was in the [deseg] down here in plano also  
am i still employed by t i  
no  
i took a leave of of t i back in november  
actually december was my first month away from them  
exempt  
it uh unfortunately i guess for myself it wasn't uh it was purely by my own choice  
it wasn't uh there was no incentive for myself to leave  
but it was just an opportunity [arose]  
and decided to take it  
no  
i should have taken the the the you know uh option when that was there  
but it was just i missed it by a couple months  
but you know what can one do  
i'm just happy still to have a job  
yeah  
i am kind of happy with it  
it's getting better all the time  
i knew it would be different from the very beginning  
but you know as you get to know more of the people that work there and more of what's going on with the system  
so i was in the computer operations  
it's uh you know it all starts to become similar  
there's you know there's benefits  
and there's things that weren't as good  
but as an overall package i'd say i'm pretty happy so far with the way it's turned out  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
well the one thing i guess at least in your favor is the the fact that that is more in the support of the manufacturing  
and there's lots and lots of companies that have maybe not in the the defense area but manufacturing in general  
uh_huh  
that's great  
that's good  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
sometimes it's good just to have everything out on the table  
it may be a blessing in disguise  
i know a number of people who are uh [surplused]  
and they're just  
actually what the positions that they found outside of the company were much much better than the ones that they currently had inside  
exactly  
uh_huh  
well i'm sure it's just with the the the the way that things are so [topsy] [turvy] right now as soon as you decide on a pass  
uh_huh  
well would you like to be there  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
well just take the day  
well actually uh the the plano dallas houston you know austin that whole area is is actually quite quite nice  
oh that's a beautiful place  
uh_huh  
that's just fantastic down there  
take it more as a  
this is your opportunity to do whatever you want  
pick out where you want to live  
and then once you pick that spot out pick out what you want to do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's a  
it it takes a bit of a shift doesn't it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well the best thing about it is that you can uh try something  
if you don't like it shoot move on to something else  
that's the way i would have looked at the whole thing here  
i'll take a chance  
if i don't like it i'll go someplace else do something different  
five years  
yeah  
yeah  
i can imagine you know the longer and longer it goes  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
you've got a good attitude about it  
uh_huh  
right  
there you go  
that's the way to do it  
there you go  
that's the thing to do  
that's much [funner] than doing any kind of job  
that will work out just fine  
all right  
nice talking to you  
good bye  
all right  
well uh quite a few  
and they're varied  
they don't uh uh [encompass] uh many [handcrafts] like knitting and that kind of thing  
but i do uh quite a bit of [wreath] making  
and my dogs are my hobbies  
i do a lot of gardening  
i go to estate sales which takes up a lot of time  
now what do you mostly do  
oh  
boy  
that should be fun  
yeah  
how old are they  
well i think that's better than having that party at home  
yeah  
and   the   the the skating [rink] does the rest practically   i guess  
boy what a help that is  
what kind of  
well not that long  
uh just since october  
we moved here from enid oklahoma  
so uh we are we're originally from virginia this part of the country  
but we did spend twenty years in norman and enid   and loved it  
but we needed to get back uh   to our older parents  
but i am loving it  
the weather is [divine]  
yes  
oh yes  
very much  
yeah  
well my husband was with uh university of oklahoma and   [phillips] university in enid  
and then he went with uh a family corporation that had uh has oil and [ranching] and varied [enterprises]  
and uh he just quit a perfectly good job and came we came east  
yes  
yes  
uh_huh  
he's doing uh quite a bit of consulting work and   has been offered a permanent position  
and he's contemplating  
he he's liking this free time actually  
it's just wonderful after all   these years of working  
um a gal who works uh with t i on this project  
i think she's a temporary worker  
uh mother is my best friend   in virginia  
so   we have spread the word a little bit in this part of the country  
really  
uh what is her name  
yeah  
well i haven't talked to her  
i haven't   i haven't talked to a tina yet  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well you haven't told me uh what sports that you are active in  
yes  
well i think that's uh easy entertainment for a   family too  
under the stands  
under the   bleachers  
uh_huh  
yes  
well it's getting   a little hot isn't it  
it  
yeah  
it sure does  
or maybe this evening anyway  
very   much so  
yeah  
no  
no  
it doesn't  
enid is uh  
it's in the northwest  
it's uh directly across the straight uh state from tulsa  
uh  
sure you have  
yes  
well enid is   not uh an unknown little city  
it uh  
an awful lot of people know where it is or have been there  
and it   was uh a very uh self sufficient uh wealthy uh town   for a long time anyway you know   until uh everything happened  
the bottom fell out  
but  
it's beginning to do well  
but there's a lot of uh old time wealth there that   has helped to [stabilize] things  

yes  
something like that  
oh  
well   it's it's   pretty  
the weather is wonderful  
uh this winter we  
it was just  
we had so many wonderful days  
and  
uh i  
if it got to be forty degrees i decided it was too cold to to walk the dogs  
isn't it   funny how how   your standards change  
yes  
sure  
well  
carolina this part is very much like that too very   foggy and   [misty]  
the moss grows   on the trees in the woods up   eight ten   feet  
yeah  
i think however that's like february  
uh i know it did it all february  
and some people said to me well that's our wintertime  
well i know you   need to go  
and i've enjoyed talking to you  
thanks so much  
have a  
oh thank you  
and i hope you enjoy   and get through that birthday party  
yeah  
i do   too  
bye bye  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well mostly right now i'm a i do a lot of sports and stuff like that is my hobbies and do a lot of things with my family as much as possible  
we're uh we're about to take the kids to go roller skating and a birthday party and stuff  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
fun for them  
uh i've got a little girl who's six and a little girl that's three  
yeah  
well uh this is a friend's party  
and they they rented  
or you know they  
the party  
they uh just rent [skates] and stuff for the kids  
so uh   they're   they're looking forward to it  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
so uh  
how long have you lived in north carolina  
really  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
uh  
did you like oklahoma   while you were there  
um what did you all do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
so is uh is he working there then  
or  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
well how did how did you get uh hooked up with the t i switchboard thing  
uh_huh  
oh i see  
i see  
uh_huh  

my wife has talked more than i have uh  
she's talked to four five different people  
it seems like she hasn't talked to anybody from dallas  
in fact she's talked to a couple of people from north carolina i think  
yeah  
her name's tina  
yeah  
uh_huh  

uh the the call was probably for her  
they wouldn't accept my uh t i n number  
so we put hers in  
but uh uh like i said we're getting getting the kids ready to go to the birthday party  
so  
but uh some of  
yeah  
i i've only talked to one or two  
and they've they've all been in dallas  
but she hasn't talked to anybody   in dallas yet  
so that's interesting  
well the sport i like best probably is basketball  
but uh i guess i'm probably better at softball  
and so i'd  
like during the summer months it's occupies quite a bit of my   time  
but i play in a couple of leagues and and occasionally in a tournament or something on a weekend  
but my family usually goes with me  
we try to do everything we can together  
yeah  
yeah  
well they uh  
a good friend of mine that plays on one of my teams we uh  
that's usually the team i play on with the tournaments and stuff  
and they have a couple of kids that are almost my kids age  
so they play together   pretty well  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
pretty much  
and uh tina enjoys uh the other lady   real well  
so they  
you know that's kind of nice  
it's like getting together with   them  
so to speak  
yeah  
well it's been raining a lot here so far  
so we haven't really had any kind of real heat  
i think it's going to be warm enough this afternoon we were noticing a while ago it's already eighty in in the house  
so it looks like an air conditioner   day  
but  
yeah  
it  
yeah  
but you know i'm sure you're familiar with that living   here  
we go we go through enid you know quite a bit  
we go to tulsa from time to time  
and my my parents live in southern illinois  
so we drive   up there  
and well lot of times we take seventy five  
and uh it seems like seems like that goes through enid   i know  
i've either seen the signs or  
um i know i've seen   the sign somewhere  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
uh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
so uh how  
you said you've just lived in north carolina just like   six months then is  
and you really like   it there huh  
i've heard so many people talk about that area  
i've never been there  

but they sure   say it's pretty  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
it really does  
my wife and i spent a couple years uh doing church work up in the state of washington right   on the coast  
and it rains   you know a lot there  
but you get used to it  
i mean it's like a fine mist all the time  
and it doesn't really  
it gets to where it doesn't bother   you  
really  
it  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
yeah  
that's the way it is was there too  
oh uh_huh  
but  
well i have enjoyed talking to you too  
it was nice   to talk to you  
i hope you enjoy   north carolina  
yeah  
well i hope   i live through it  
that's what i hope  
okay  
thanks a lot  
good bye  
oh not very many of those at uh  
sometimes i i play the trumpet  
and sometimes i work on trumpet [mouthpieces]  
and then i have a five year old daughter  
and we cut out things kind of you know and color and uh and uh use [markers] and things like that  
um how about you  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i don't know  
my my father is in the in the antique business  
and he uh he goes around to garage sales  
and he buys all kinds of um china and figurines and [statues] and stuff  
and um there's some stuff that's really for uh auto repair  
it's called j b [weld]  
and i repaired a a gasoline tank with it once  
but he   mixes colors in it  
it's an [epoxy] [resin] that you mix together  
and he makes like  
the other day he was working on a hand that was [shattered] on a a [statue] that's real small  
it's like about maybe  
the [hand's] about the size of a [cricket]   and uh has uh like the [forefinger] sticking out and the thumb sticking out  
and he was repairing that  
and uh it came out pretty good  
it's kind of a kind of a ivory color all over and   and uh has some age spots in it  
and it looked you know just like it it had been there all the time  
and he fixed some fixes some bowls that have the cracks or chips in them and uh [molds] that in  
he had a blue blue bowl a few weeks ago that he he fixed that way  
it worked out real well too  
and then   and   and then he uh   he [thatches] uh you know those uh [thatched] chairs  
course that's like that that uh hooking that you were talking about  
that takes a lot of time  
yeah  
and he used to paint um a long time ago  
but i think he's stopped pretty much now  
but outside of outside of art class in in school i i stopped doing most of that unless i i mean like he has a computer  
and i use um the graphics   um software on that to uh to do figures and to look at things you know see how they work  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sometimes  
but it's not one of my favorite things especially from the [vapors]  
and we had uh an entertainment center we did last year  
uh we bought it at an unfinished uh furniture place   and [sanded] it down and uh stained it and then [lacquered] over it  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
sure is  
did you use a did you use a [zar] stain  
um they had a um  
well i saw the commercial on t v  
and they  
and uh and the people at the unfinished store recommended it  
that's called  
it's z   a r  
and uh it spreads real evenly  
and it doesn't dry too fast  
so it's  
if you get too much in one spot you can smooth it out  
and uh we   put we put [tung] oil on it  
kind of made it sticky for a while  
but after it dried out it was you know it was real hard  
and it was all right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
were you in a were you the girl scouts too  
or  
well it was nice talking to you  
okay  
you too  
bye bye  
okay  
what kind of crafts and hobbies do you have  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
in  
well i used to be more into crafts when i was younger like high school stuff  
i was in four h  
and i did a lot of latch hook   made rugs and stuff  
um and uh i've learned how to crochet  
but i don't really know  
i mean i don't do it that much  
not really an indoor hobby type person unless the weather's really bad  
i'd rather be outside  
um i used to play trombone  
i don't know if that was a  
not really  
i don't play it that much any more  
but i um  
what else do i do  
mainly do reading  
i don't have a lot of crafty type things i do  
but uh what are some other things you enjoy  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh cool  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
do you ever  
huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that's great that he has a lot of hobbies and stuff  
oh  
yeah  
right  
that sounds interesting  
um does does he ever uh [refinish] furniture or anything like that  
uh_huh  
pretty time consuming isn't it  
but it's it's nice to have it when you're done  
i mean looks pretty  
so i've done that once  
but it didn't come out that well  
uh i don't remember  
it was  
i had my parents buy everything  
and i ended up  
it was their table their kitchen table  
it came out really dark  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i remember it took me a long time  
it took me like several months or several weeks to do it during the summer  
and then after i got it done it was pretty dark and ended up not being real smooth looking  
since i've moved away they've had it redone  
so i kind of kind of gave that hobby up real quick  
but i don't know  
like i said i like doing a lot of outdoor stuff  
so but during four h i mean they really encouraged to do all kinds of crafty stuff which is interesting  
i like that  
no  
well yeah  
when i was real young i was for a couple   of years  
excuse me  
so uh anyway it was nice talking to you dudley  
have a good day now  
bye  
okay  
what kind of things do you like to do in your spare time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh i uh like sports type things too  
we like to get out and walk  
and we like the water sports too  
but like you unless you have a pool in your backyard it is kind of hard to get to do that   very often  
yeah  
well part time  
we   are going to have a baby in july  
so part of my big hobby has been trying to put together a nursery and all that kind of stuff lately  
yeah  
it does  
i have been  
yes  
uh_huh  
i have been doing some cross stitch for something i wanted to put in the nursery  
so i have not   done that in years  
but i have kind of enjoyed that  
it is just hard to find the time to sit there and do it  
right  
yeah  
and i guess i kind of consider shopping a hobby  
i just go out just to just to enjoy it and not   really spend money sometimes   just look  
yeah  
yeah  
we   bought some baby clothes yeah last weekend at a garage sale  
yeah  
uh_huh  
oh  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
it is kind of a hobby it that is time consuming too really to find the things that you want sometimes you have to stop   at a lot of places  
right  
yeah  
i think that is important too  
i am not   going to work   after the baby comes  
so i   guess hopefully i will have more time for hobbies  
i do not know  
right  
yeah  
wow  
yeah  
yeah  
so that is good  
a whole  
your whole family can enjoy those hobbies  
oh  
oh wow  
that will make the summer go by in a hurry  
keep the kids busy  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
uh do you consider yard work a hobby at all  
or is that just a chore  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh no  
huh  
oh well we like it once in a while but not as often as we have to do it  
i like to put flowers out and you know   a few little things like that  
but as far as   mowing every week and finding time   to get all that stuff done   it gets to be a chore  
seems like sometimes hobbies do that  
they kind of take over and turn into work instead of   fun  
yeah  
if it does not go quite quite right  
oh no  
oh that is nice  
yeah  
your  
how funny  
i think i will enjoy cooking more when i am not working when i   do not get home until five thirty or six and i have to cook and clean up  
it is not it is not fun  
but i think i will like it better  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
we have done a little bit of camping  
we like that  
it's  
there again it is just so hard to find time to get away   for a whole weekend  
oh  
that sounds fun  
yeah  
well that sounds nice  
i i think that would be a good family thing   to start doing   more often  
uh_huh  
yeah  
we have camped with some friends who have young children  
and   uh if you can find some place where those little sunfish are right around the shore where they can just pull in a line  
oh they have so much fun doing that  
and they think they are really great fishermen   because they are catching so many  
oh  
yeah  
skip this tournament  
right  
yeah  
do you do any other crafts or anything besides your sewing  
it is not too hard  
it is  
i do not think it is as hard as like knitting or   crochet or something like that  
yeah  
yeah  
i started to to knit a sweater  
and i got off on my rows somehow  
and so what should have been the back all of a sudden was on the front  
and then i tore it out and threw it down  
and i never have   picked it back up again  
and now i can't remember anything about it  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
forget it  
yeah  
yeah  
i remember that  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
they are pretty easy  
well it has been real good talking to you  
and i hope you enjoy your camping trip  
uh_huh  
bye  
well uh i have two children  
so i do not have a whole lot of spare time right now  
one of the things that i have made time for is uh playing softball  
i really enjoy  
i enjoy softball  
but i enjoy all kind of sports  
i enjoy watching and participating  
i really like water sports like swimming and skiing  
but i do not get to do that too often  
and then i i really enjoy sewing  
but i do not get much of a chance to just really sit down and do much sewing  
how about you  
uh_huh  
i know it  
it is  
do you work full time  
part time  
oh  
right  
yeah  
that definitely takes over your time  
is this going to be your first  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
well that is  
it sure is fun to do that kind of thing because then you have got something to show for it  
yeah  
that is neat  
yeah  
i do too  
yeah  
yeah  
well since i have had kids it is kind of funny i i never really was much of a garage sale shopper until i had kids  
but you will probably find after your children get bigger uh like when they want things like [tricycles] toys things that cost quite a lot in the store you can find that kind of stuff at garage sales for just a few dollars  
and  
yeah  
oh you can just get all kinds of things and kids especially clothes and toys they just do not use them and wear them you know for that many years or anything  
so i am  
i have become a garage sale shopper  
and it is fun  
on the weekends i drive around look to see you know who is selling what  
and i found my little daughter some tap shoes for her tap class   and just you know all kinds of things like that that you would probably pay thirty dollars for  
and i got them for two dollars  
yeah  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
it is  
it it does take more time  
but i do not work  
so uh that is something i have decided i am going to make sure my kids have a have a happy growing up years  
and  
yeah  
well   well that is good  
i am glad  
well at first when you first have a baby you uh seems to take every moment of your time partly because you are not used to you know juggling your time around like that  
but   eventually the you will you will be doing lots of stuff  
so  
but i think my husband is real into sports too  
he plays on a t i softball team and the church softball team  
and by the time he plays two games a week and i play a game a week we go to lots of softball  
but the kids enjoy going because there's usually a lot of other kids for them to play with  
and we that is getting outside and you know doing things they like to do too  
so  
yeah  
and one other thing we are doing this year is uh we bought wet and wild passes  
we have never done that before  
but the kids are always wanting to play in the water  
and uh like you said unless you have a pool in your backyard or access to a good place to play it is kind of hard  
and uh they have real good [kiddie] areas uh at both of the wet and [wild's] around here  
so we are planning on going two or three times a week  
yeah  
i think it will  
yeah  
because my oldest daughter is in school  
and she gets bored real fast when she is home with nothing to do  
so i think that will be a lot of fun  
so we are looking forward to that  
well when i got married i thought it was going to be fun  
but my husband and i both i think consider it a chore  
it's  
our yard has had so many problems  
it has completely died out two times  
and uh we have had to start all over trying to plant grass  
so it has become a chore  
do you and your husband like to work in the yard  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
that is true  
yeah  
well that is how sewing  
i love to sew  
and uh i wish i had more time to do it  
but sometimes i will get started on a project and then finishing it is more of a chore than  
yeah  
another thing i enjoy doing is cooking  
i i like especially  
it is real strange  
but i like to cook for other people  
like i have a friend that is uh pregnant  
but she can't get up and walk around right now  
so i enjoy you know cooking things to take over to her house  
or  
yeah  
and it it is fun for me to do that  
it is it is something i enjoy doing  
it is funny though it is like i do not really want to cook for us  
it is kind of like when you are a kid and and someone else's house was fun to clean  
but   you did not want to do your own  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
when you are home   it's it makes a difference  
it sure does  
well do you guys go camping or anything like that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that is something that we are planning to do not this weekend but the next  
my parents go camping a lot  
and they invited the kids and my husband and me to go with them  
and  
yeah  
we are really looking forward to it  
the girls love it  
they have been a couple of times and uh just getting to be outside you know all the time and sleep in a tent and that is really fun to them  
so   we are looking forward to that  
yeah  
i   think so  
yeah  
my uh my husband loves to fish  
i am not much into fishing  
but uh my daughter thinks she wants to learn how to fish  
so   i think it will be real good for them  
they can go fishing  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh i know  
yeah  
uh she is really looking forward  
i am hoping  
that is another thing though when sometimes your uh hobbies can interfere with each other  
because my husband is afraid he is going to have a softball tournament that weekend  
and i am saying no no  
yeah  
if you are doing a lot of things sometimes you have conflicts  
and you have to decide what you enjoy the most  
so  
well not really right now  
i keep thinking when the kids get bigger and i have a little more time uh i might take up there is i would love to cross stitch  
i think cross stitching is so pretty  
but i have never done any  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i i crocheted when i was younger  
it is funny when i was in high school i made a blanket  
and  
but you know i can't even remember how i did it now  
it has been so long since i did it that  
but  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
well i did the same thing  
uh when i was pregnant with my first daughter i was really bored  
and i bought one of those latch hook rug kits  
it was a real pretty rug  
and i thought well i could use this as a gift or something you know  
and oh it was so  
it was beautiful  
but i did not realize how long it took  
and i got about two two thirds of it done  
and then i just  
i had the baby  
and then it was just like   i forgot all about it  
and every once in a while i will be digging through the closet  
and i will find that thing  
and i will think oh maybe i ought to get the rest of that out you know and finish it  
but uh for a while there latch hook rugs were a real big uh hobby  
it seemed like people did them a lot  
uh uh people do not do that much any more  
so it was something easy i could do  
yeah  
yeah  
you too  
oh thank you  
and thanks for calling  
bye bye  
okay  
well some of the things i like to do are  
i like to knit  
i knit sometimes  
and i sew  
and uh i like to sew sometimes for my kids  
i i sew clothes for them every once in a while  
and i make quilts  
after a while cross stitch i  
i don't know  
i have   to put it away  
and then i have to bring it back  
you know and and uh i don't know why that is  
i don't know if it's looking at the little things every time  
yeah  
that might be it  
that might  
and yet there's  
oh do you  
oh  
oh i bet  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
uh i've not really done any too much challenging uh stuff  
i i can do it with a a needle and thread   you know but uh and get about five small stitches in which is pretty good  
but it's very long  
it's very tedious if you don't have a whole group you're not finishing a quilt in a long time  
so uh  
so uh i like to just mostly do the tie quilts  
that's so much easier  
but uh the other ones are very pretty  
they're uh  
we have a quilt on our bed that's  
instead of like yarn   they tied uh ribbon into it  
and it's real pretty  
it's real pretty  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
now did you say you could knit  
oh  
well i was going to say because   because if you could knit you could crochet  
it's just like doing one handed as long as you learn how to to [weave] the the yarn in between your fingers on your left hand  
and then you just use your right hand with the hook  
and that's not  
it's really not too difficult  
you could learn that i'm sure   and pick that up  
if you i think if you can do any handicraft you can learn to crochet  
it's not too difficult  
yeah  
isn't that interesting  
i think that's really interesting  
huh  
and yet you know i think about you know  
you said you do a lot of needlework  
and and there are some beautiful just gorgeous patterns   that people do  
and i i just think that uh that's one of one of the arts that i think are really pretty  
and a lot of people don't do that either  
you know and so  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true  
you know and and i always think well i can do this and watch t v or something   you know  
and uh it seems like i always get my mind carried away to something else  
and then it doesn't   quite work  
or  
and you know i like to sketch  
i can i can sketch something like if i see a picture like out of a book i can sketch that  
and that's nice and everything  
but you know it's funny  
i can't i can't draw it out of my own head   kind of thing  
i wish i could  
and and yet i can't do you know like like uh craft uh on wood  
i can't do that painting thing  
and yet  
yeah  
me too  
me too  
i know a woman who's just wonderful at that  
and i look at it  
and you know you look at those things  
and you wish so badly that you could do them  
i guess if you wanted to you could take classes and learn  
i guess that's the only way i could do it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh wow  
that's the next project that i'd like to learn to do  
i do mostly hand needlework like cross stitch and crewel embroidery  
and i'm i'm beginning to get a little bored with cross stitch  
i was thinking maybe need to learn to quilt  
it gets boring  
uh_huh  
well it reaches a point where it doesn't seem to be very challenging i think  
but i do   a lot of it in the car  
we  
yeah  
we commute from plano to dallas  
so i have nearly an hour both ways that i can really get a lot of work done  
and   i found that cross stitch is the easiest to do in the car  
i don't know that i could even think about quilting  
you have to have a pretty good frame don't you to   do any kind of quilting work  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh i bet  
but it's such a lost art  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
oh  
i bet  
there's so many things i wish i had learned to do with my mother  
she had crocheted a full bedspread  
it's kind of a [hobnail]   looking thing  
and when i look at it now she's been dead for a long time   i think oh why didn't i learn these crafts and skills from her because she could crochet and   do so many of the old things that aren't in vogue right now that people just don't know how to do  
no  
uh_huh  
haven't tried that either  
i want to learn to crochet  
i  
really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
it's funny when you were talking about sewing i love to do anything by hand with a needle  
but i'm totally intimidated if i sit down at a sewing machine  
i never learned  
and i get real nervous whereas usually the other needlework stuff is relaxing to me  
but i just have a [phobia] about not being able to actually sew  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well it's hard to find the time  
i i wouldn't if i didn't have this car time ability probably   because at night if i sit down i'm doing something with the kids or   just not sitting down at all  
uh_huh  
well it  
i'm at the age where [bifocals] or [trifocals] would be necessary  
it's so i find myself putting glasses on to to watch t v and then taking them off to do needlework  
and i get frustrated doing that  
so just give it up  
ooh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i'm the same way  
if i see something i can copy it  
but i certainly can't create  
i admire people that have that in their minds already  
uh_huh  
well sometimes even with that i i think you have to have some  
do you have any hobbies  
what are yours  
ooh how great  
oh uh ceramic painting  
the china more  
how did you ever get into that  
that sounds so interesting  
how  
i  
now do you do it just for yourself  
or do you do it to give as gifts  
or do you actually sell it  
oh that sounds  
now do you work outside of the home  
you've just retired  
oh oh what a great   hobby  
i  
don't retire  
well see i don't  
i never uh returned to work for the  
i have stayed home for about the last nine years  
we've transferred around  
and our last area was in a rural section right on the lake uh on lake erie  
so the lake life appealed to me  
and my husband's working  
and he left it up to me if i worked or not  
so in my spare time i love to sew  
there aren't too many people around anymore that really enjoy sewing  
but i do make all my own clothes  
and we recently purchased a new home  
so i enjoy doing my uh [toppers] for my window applications   and things like that  
but uh just when i thought i really enjoyed my hobby yours sounds great  
that is excellent  
we're in the i'm in the suburb of cleveland  
and i'm about uh fifteen miles probably from downtown cleveland something like that  
and cleveland is located right on lake erie  
and prior to this we were fifty miles west from here  
so we were right on the lake  
and cleveland isn't all as bad as what you've heard  
and you do find people uh into the crafts and the things that uh various things for spare time  
but i have never heard and i have actually never run into anyone into the china painting  
and i'm just intrigued with it  
right  
where you're getting into the delicate work  
now do you where did you first get your lessons from  
through a uh an adult ed or strictly a china type  
oh how marvelous  
oh and it's so nice  
it must be so nice for you now that you're retired  
oh isn't that great  
and you'll probably really uh [regain] your enthusiasm for it   once you get into a a class again  
yes  
i do  
china painting and [ceramics]  
i enjoy it  
uh_huh  
i enjoy the china more  
and now that i have my eyes corrected to the point that i can see the delicate part of china painting i do enjoy it  
my husband kept begging me  
and he's been dead now for twenty years  
so you understand that this was a long time ago  
but he finally brought me the china the book the brushes and he said i have made arrangements for your lessons  
and i said i'll do it for three months  
and if i don't like it that's it  
well i painted an awful lot until his death which was several years  
and it has just been the most relaxing enjoyable self satisfying thing i've had  
i  
i have sold quite a bit  
i give a lot to our two daughters that are grown and have their home  
and then i just have the rest of my house with lot of hand painting in it  
uh_huh  
i have just retired  
yes  
no  
it's not  
it's a great hobby  
but don't retire  
oh  
oh have well  
wow  
oh uh_huh  
well my sister is the [seamstress] of the two of us  
and but she doesn't china paint  
so we both have our expertise side  
what part of ohio are you in  
oh what's that  
if you ever start be sure and start with a large piece that you can i mean a large flat plate  
um that way you can get the feel of  
you're not cramped on these smaller objects  
that's right  
in abilene texas  
she just taught china painting  
uh_huh  
and  
then then we had so much fun there  
i had a friend from albany which is about thirty six miles away  
and we would meet every thursday morning at our [instructor's] home because she did our firing for us  
and she would help us  
and we bought lots of equipment from her supplies  
and it was just such a delightful time  
and then after i  
beg pardon  
i have been a little bit [negligent] about it because i was so tired when i had to go to work after my husband's death  
so i have put it aside for a little while  
but i'm i have just found me an instructor to get started again  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
of course i just have one beautiful with peonies uh umbrella stand  
and i have two daughters  
and they're both  
i guess we're recorded  
what  
do you have any hobbies that you like to do  
oh  
all right  
that's an interesting [assortment]  
my husband is into cycling  
in fact he's out there right now   before it gets dark trying to get in his miles for the the time  
uh do you have any do you do any handicraft type things i think was the question  
yeah  
[whittling] or  
nothing like that  
i i do some things  
i've gotten into  
uh-oh i i like to decorate things  
and i do sweatshirts and t shirts  
and i've gotten to where i start have started selling them at craft shows and things  
uh and i have have done fairly well at them  
i've had  
a a few of my little hobby projects have totally bombed  
but most   of them have worked out pretty good  
oh  
yeah  
what what does a computer club do  
i didn't know there were such things  
uh_huh  
you don't uh you're not   into [hacking] or whatever  
uh_huh  
well that's kind of interesting hobby  
what else did you  
you said you did cycling  
what was the other thing  
backpacking  
we  
uh_huh  
well that's we have done that  
uh our two older boys were in boy scouts  
and my daughter was in girl scouts until just about a year ago  
so we've uh done a fair amount of that in our spare time also  
but it  
i  
that's a great thing to do you know really  
have you been backpacking anyplace exciting  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh that one  
okay  
to the  
uh-oh by fort [sill] there  
uh_huh  
have you gone like to [fillmont] with the boy scouts  
i've always thought that would be a real fun thing to do  
uh_huh  
does does your whole family like to do it  
like you you know for a vacation you'd go backpacking  
oh okay  
you just oh  
and and you volunteer for the boy scouts huh  
uh_huh  
well sometimes uh  
sometimes i think that might not be a bad idea  
have  
uh you said you did it in the high sierras  
uh do you ever you know just vacation someplace where you strictly backpack  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i  
probably  
probably  
that's  
uh well my my other things that i like to do in my spare time i'm i like swimming  
which is in now  
i've done that  
and i i also  
when i like something i usually try to figure out how to make money off of it  
okay  
oh yes  
cycling computers uh backpacking just about everything  
oh i [generically] have you know millions of hobbies  
uh_huh  
i'm not quite that bad  
i'm just a weekend [cyclist]  
handicraft type things  
yeah  
just [whittle] away my life  
uh no  
no  
i  
uh uh  
oh that's pretty good  
yeah  
they  
my only craft work is kind of like computers and you know go off to the little computer club meetings  
and it's kind of nice because i've made money at it too  
considering i i work for it a living  
but i you know i i've got a couple of articles published  
it's kind of kind of neat  
oh yeah  
just all over the place  
they just get around and and talk [techy] or or else uh uh you know  
like half the members are really expert  
and the other half are like really not  
and uh we kind of help out the people who are really not  
oh i i think i'm i think i'm a hacker  
but i'm not not kind not the uh the you know dial around randomly trying to break into computers type   [hackers]  
no  
that's one of those sports i don't go for  
yeah  
backpacking  
yeah  
i belong to a a boy scout troop  
it beats paying united way  
i just you know   donate a whole bunch of my time to the boy scouts and have fun  
uh_huh  
uh well just last weekend went to [davy] [crockett] forest   which is kind of out in east texas  
and we go to uh places out in  
uh uh let's see  
what's that what's that state north of us  
that state  
yeah  
yeah  
that one  
that one  
yeah  
yeah  
and  
uh no  
to another a uh old indian fort that's out there  
trying to think of the name of it  
[durn]  
well yeah  
no  
sorry  
no memory  
no  
i missed out this last year  
i wasn't able to get the time off but maybe next year  
it's a good possibility  
oh yeah  
yeah  
when i was a kid uh we'd do the equivalent thing in the high sierras  
that was loads of fun  
uh no  
not quite because i'm not a whole family  
i'm just me  
oh yeah  
i rent my kids  
it's better than you know owning on them and making payments on them   and you know things like that  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh not recently because you know like the boy scouts makes it so that i go like once a month you know   someplace  
but uh there's uh some some stuff that i want to do with like sierra club and go down to grand canyon or something like that  
so you know they have lots of tours where they get a bunch of people together and   off you go  
which seems kind of reasonable because that means you don't have to take twenty thirteen year olds with you which seems a a just a [tad] more relaxing  
uh_huh  
tell me what you like to do  
oh  
uh_huh  
wonderful  
oh  
wonderful  
oh but how wonderful  
are you close to getting it done  
oh  
are you going to move your whole family over there then  
uh_huh  
kind of your getaway place  
oh how beautiful  
and it's pretty flat there  
see i've only been to texas once  
i have two sisters in texas now um one in austin one in dallas  
and the one in dallas is the one that got me to doing this  
and uh i thought austin was beautiful  
i liked the hills   and the trees  
oh and you've always   lived in texas have you  
uh_huh  
born and raised texan huh  
well i had never been there  
that's pretty neat  
my sisters both seem to like it pretty well  
my brother in law works for the university um in dallas  
he's admissions director  
uh university of texas in dallas  
yeah  
yeah  
well that's he's got a job there  
and this is his first year  
so it's been a real interesting thing for them  
but they seem to like it okay  
i think they're too far away from me  
but   maybe some day they can get closer  
we'll see  
well i'm mother of four  
so basically i'm just   real busy with my kids right now in sports  
and we have a little halloween talent show tonight  
and i substitute at the schools part time  
well i am a travel agent at heart  
and my hobby is just  
i love traveling and and being involved of that and finding out more uh  
but it's real hard to work in the summers and holidays and weekends when you have four children and a husband  
so   i reluctantly gave that career up and am just substituting at the school  
so i've been librarian all this week which has been real interesting  
and i'm enjoying it  
i'm around my kids  
and   oh yeah  
yeah  
it's great  
it's great  
and what else do i do  
i do lots of cross stitching when i have time  
and i enter things in our little state fair  
and that's pretty fun  
well but actually my hobbies is mostly is my sports tennis  
i play tennis  
ooh  
do you  
yes  
we snow ski  
we snow ski at mount bachelor mostly   in oregon  
have you ever been there  
wonderful place  
ooh  
uh_huh  
where in colorado  
yes  
yes  
really  
uh_huh  
i would love  
i can hardly wait to get   up there  
we  
it is snowing right now  
we're to get one to three inches tonight  

oh yeah  
well we're we are on the dry side of the mountains  
seattle is only about two and a half hours  
so of course i'm a real seahawks fan  
and um going over that pass is just a real nightmare  
and um so and we're on the colder side  
they're on the rainy side  
we're on the snowy side  
and um we we ski  
my my children all ski  
and we've we have been to [whistler] in canada which is just a marvelous place  
[whistler] and black home is in canada  
and then we've gone to sun valley several times  
that's a just a great place but no not in colorado  
since i was in college since i went to school  
haven't been there  
i keep hearing these marvelous things   about deer valley and  
um don't adam um   city  
ooh yes  
and your kids all ski  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
that's great  
well my boys are at the point where they scare their mommy to death  
when they're skiing they're [fearless]  
and they go off  
well i i collect antique tools uh for one thing i well i'm sort of in an antique business  
but it's a little   [sideline] part time thing  
and uh i'm building a a log house at a farm that i have in east texas which is   a hundred miles from here  
yeah  
it's really neat  
and uh uh course i've been working on it for five years  
but you know  
yeah  
yeah  
it's getting real close to  
you know of course there's still a lot of work to be done  
and then when you get it completely you know the shell finished uh you still have a lot of stuff to do inside  
but uh  
no  
actually uh i'm not even sure  
i may  
i'll probably always have a place here in richardson or dallas  
yeah  
escape  
but it's beautiful  
it's you know it's eastern hardwood uh forest  
there are a lot of pine trees  
but it's mostly oaks  
and  
well it's kind of hilly  
but it's you know low hills  
it's not uh  
yeah  
you  
yeah  
in  
yeah  
it's really different because that's kind of the you know that's the [chalk] hills down there   limestone hills  
yeah  
except for time in service  
yeah  
at at which one  
oh okay  
it's just north of me here  
that's great  
well yeah  
pretty good trip  
so what do you what kind of hobbies are you in  
oh that's great  
no kidding  
that's pretty easy substituting isn't it  
ooh  
that's great  
ooh i love tennis too  
and i ski ski  
do you ski  
uh that's great  
no uh  
i've skied in colorado  
and   we usually go to new mexico because it's a little cheaper you know  
i've been to [telluride] which is on the west side   and uh copper  
copper is kind of my favorite up there   [breckenridge]   and [keystone]  
i guess those are the only places i've skied up there  
me too  
you guys are you guys getting snow  
oh gee  
i heard aspen got three feet  
yeah  
i can imagine my lord  
oh super  
what about utah  
yeah  
haven't either  
always want to go to canada   canada to [banff] or somewhere like that  
uh not all of them  
my my kids are all grown  
but my youngest son is a skier  
uh_huh  
well what are your hobbies  
well that sounds interesting  
what kinds of uh sweat shirts and t shirts do you make  
okay  
is that silk screening or  
oh i see  
well how's it going  
well that sounds great  
well somebody has to do it  
give you a little christmas money any way  
well i i kind of have hobby fads i guess  
when i was growing up i was was into coin collecting  
and that dropped off about the time i hit [puberty] i guess  
and then my hobbies in high school went just to the sports  
now my latest one is classic cars  
i've   i had a sixty six mustang i was rebuilding  
almost had it done  
and i went on went ahead and sold it  
but it was fun  
i really enjoyed it  
oh you just  
no  
you just kind of  
all i did is uh i bought the car  
and then uh you know you can  
i uh was just in a supermarket  
and i seen a a magazine for you know  
basically it it was called mustang magazine  
and   and so i bought it  
and they had uh some names some companies that sold mustang parts  
and i just started ordering some parts  
and and you know basically you know i what i did was i redid the whole interior  
i didn't do too much to the engine because the engine was pretty good but the the whole interior and then part of the exterior  
just kind of do it  
well we lived we lived in south dakota  
and i bought it up there before i moved down here  
so it was it was kind of rusted out there  
there isn't too much rust on any vehicles down here  
well gee i guess there really isn't too much to talk about on hobbies  
that that about covers mine  
and t shirt making about covers yours  
in new mexico  
okay  
yeah  
that is  
that's interesting  
how many music boxes do you have  
do they all play different songs  
or do some of them play the same song  
well that's neat  
what's the most expensive one you bought  
oh really  
well that's interesting  
it used to be tea [spoons] was the thing  
well that's interesting music boxes  

well how was europe  
was that in high school  
or was that a college thing  
i bet  
right  
that's where a [camcorder] would come in handy  
well that sounds real neat  
so you you haven't been back to europe since then huh  
there you go  
well does you husband uh  
what does he think of your uh t shirts and  
does he help out much  
or  
well actually my hobbies now are t shirt making  
i'm making t shirts and sweat shirts  
in fact that's what i was doing when you called  
um right now i'm making christmas ones with [poinsettias] and bears and   all that kind of thing  
um no  
i'm have material that i cut out  
and then you um  
there's this stuff called wonder under that you that you iron it on  
and then you iron that on the t shirt and you paint around it  
so it's real fun  
i started doing it as a um just something fun to do  
and now i'm selling them and pretty  
pretty good  
i just started last week  
and i sold seven  
i didn't wasn't expecting that  
so  
i guess in my spare time i'll be making t shirts  
so  
that's right you know  
that's correct  
well what are your hobbies  
uh_huh  
um  
oh my gosh  
well how'd you learn to do that   to fix them up  
you just get a book that tells you how to do it or what  
uh_huh  
where'd you get the car  
wow  
well that's true  
that's true  
well that sounds neat  
let's see  
well let's see  
i've done other hobbies  
i'm a hobby person  
i've always done a lot of craft stuff  
i always have done needlepoint and cross stitch and all that  
and i collect dolls  
i have a huge collection of dolls which is still in new mexico with my parents  
uh_huh  
from new mexico  
so let's see  
what else  
i started collecting music boxes  
i guess that's a hobby  
so  
probably uh about twenty  
uh_huh  
they they all play different songs  
the most expensive  
i don't know  
i've gotten all of them for gifts  
i don't  
bought a few of them  
i usually get them for christmas gifts or and like when people go you know to on trips or something  
that's true  
i never collected those never collected those  
i have dolls from all over too  
that i started when i was a little girl  
and i have a lot of dolls  
people would always bring them when they go to the countries  
and um and i did that when i went to europe one summer  
i bought a doll everywhere we went  
so  
economy  
it was great  
it was quick  
i was in i was in high school  
and i was in a tour  
and we went all  
it's kind of a it's kind of to establish better [rapport] with the different countries  
and um it was called people to people  
and we'd stay in people's homes  
and then we got to also tour big cities  
and i really enjoyed it  
uh_huh  
in was in high school  
so i'd like to go back because we had you know  
everything was rushed  
everything was like an hour or two hours at the [louvre] you know things like that where you need the whole day  
but   but it really  
exactly  
that's true  
no  
i always thought i would  
but who knows now  
i got married and maybe some day  
maybe it's one of those retirement things  
well he likes it all right  
he's been pretty good because there's t shirt stuff all over the house  
i'm sorry um  
hobbies  
let me see  
i don't know if that took or not  
i'll do it again  
okay  
what are your hobbies  
i hear you have kids right  
that's your full time uh hobby right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um i try to do some painting although i'm not very good at it  
well no  
not really  
yeah  
i i have you know i inherited the [genes] that make me think i'm creative   but not the ones that give me the ability to be  
so i always try  
i i do some sewing mostly out of necessity  
um i'm making drapes for my house just because i'm  
yeah  
well it isn't and it is  
it is you know  
actually the sewing isn't the hard part  
it's just being able to lay out the material and measure it   because you need so much room  
yeah  
i've been doing that  
and   that  
yeah  
that  
but usually have to do the pleats by hand  
so that at least   i can do you know watching t v or whatever  
but  
yeah  
and i've i've gone and you know put the needle through my thumb a few times   trying to get it through  
but  
yeah  
so that's not really my favorite thing to do or anything but i i need to do it  
i have let's see i have a dog and a lot of fish  
keeping fish i guess   is my biggest hobby  
um yes and no  
it depends on how frequently they die and   how much that bothers you  
that's  
you don't have to do as much as as i thought  
in fact my problem  
i had fish as a kid  
and they always died   immediately  
and what i'm what i think now is the reason is i kept the tank too clean  
because you have  
right  
you need to let the bacteria build up  
and then it keeps all the chemicals in balance  
and i would just take everything out and just like you know wash it with [scalding] hot water  
and it would kill all the bacteria  
and that would screw up all the chemical cycles again  
so  
right  
that's right  
so now only i only clean things to make things look more [aesthetically] [pleasing]  
and i don't try and [sterilize] things  
that's right  
that's right  
well i've had them  
i guess it's been two years now i've had a a tank here  
and then back at home i used to have a small you know five gallon tank  
but that never worked well  
and   i have fifty five gallons now  
it's a lot easier  
no  
no  
not yet  
that's right  
i really do  
but you know  
yeah  
i just have you know what they call community fish   guppies and [platies] and and basic things  
i don't get into the  
right  
right  
the expensive ones  
they are  
they're very expensive  
and you know when you die it's like when they die it's more like an investment  
you lost an investment  
so  
no  
not really  
only if there's baby fish  
you always have to isolate those  
you get a  
well no  
they have breeders  
it's a little plastic things that sort of floats  
and you put the mother fish in there  
and then it's got like a trough underneath her  
so as the babies come out they fall down in the trough  
and there's a hole in the middle so they fall into the bottom part of the chamber   so the mother can't get to them either  
and that's you know  
it kind of works  
but it's also got slots in it so the water can [circulate]  
and on occasion if you get a real small one  
it'll fit out the slots  
that's right  
so but you know it works i guess  
oh they'll eat them  
yeah  
yes  
it and it's funny because the one i have every single month without fail she has babies  
oh no  
all the time  
and um i  
and she's supposed to  
her variety it says they won't eat the babies  
and i've seen her do it  
so  
oh it's  
well it makes you understand that you know things are different  
we might right we might decide what's proper and what isn't  
but   you know that's the way it is for them  
yeah  
that's it  
yes  
because if the baby is strong enough it can swim away fast enough   and go hide  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
not really  
i i try  
i also i play a couple of instruments  
that's okay  
i didn't hear  
okay  
okay  
you heard her in the background  
that's babies  
takes a lot of time huh  
i like uh most sports  
i like to do that  
i kind of like to do a little bit of sewing  
oh little bit of embroidery work once in a while  
what do you like to do  
well i'm sure you probably are  
you like it  
that's the main  
that's right  
oh boy that's hard sewing  
measure it and get it to  
well if it it depends on how elaborate you get it  
if you get pleats and all kinds of  
that's a lot of work  
oh  
right  
right  
that feels really good  
to do it  
right  
keeping fish  
well they're probably easier than keeping dogs though aren't they  
oh no  
how much that bothers you  
and you probably have to clean out the tank too  
oh no  
oh you're kidding  
because they need to have a little bit of the  
i see  
oh no  
and so you'd have to   start all over   to build that up probably  
right  
right  
don't go through the whole nine yards  
and   they kind of need a little bit of that  
so you've had fish for a long time  
what size do you have now  
oh that's a good size  
have you ever had it uh crack or break or leak  
fifty five gallons you'd hope it would never do that  
do you have all kinds of different fish  
or  
uh_huh  
real exotic  
well they're probably hardy harder to take care of  
and  
yes  
i bet it is  
do you have problems with them uh the fish eating each other  
right  
then you have to  
how do you isolate them  
a jar or something  
or  
okay  
okay  
okay  
oh  
right  
it'll go through the slot  
that works all right then  
they don't uh want the mothers to be with the little fish either  
they will  
isn't that odd  
you wouldn't think that  
you're kidding  
and that just makes you sick almost doesn't it  
things are different in the animal kingdom huh  
yeah  
that's kind of the way they do it  
survival of the [fittest] or something  
right  
go hide from them  
well   and then you think well how did they do it out in the real world anyway   when these fish are in the [tropicals] or wherever they are   kind of trying to keep up with that  
but if you're like me you never have enough time for the hobbies  

okay  
you got any hobbies that you want to talk about  
what in the world do you do with your computer that takes so much time  
oh really  
did you have uh your own business  
or you do that as just on the side or what  
uh_huh  
well  
what do you teach  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
well i uh play trombone in the plano community band  
and i uh like to do a lot of bicycling when the weather allows and during summer when there's daylight savings time's when i get out and bike  
well it wasn't too bad other than the cowboys didn't do so hot  
no  
just a crummy well actually  
the [lions] are pretty good i'm afraid they a lot better team than the cowboys were today  
and uh  
oh okay  
i i play that about six times a year  
and every year i hang my bag up if i get that five or six  
and i swear swear that game off for another year  
but i always go back to it  
i understand that  
well you do lots of stuff  
gosh  
i come up there i'll have to stop by and have try some of your baking  
i call on people in  
my business is uh machine tool sales  
and i have some  
i i cover texas and oklahoma  
so i what i said that i wasn't being real facetious about that  
i got customers in oklahoma city and tulsa and perry oklahoma   and [eda] and all that all that way  
yes  
yes  
i  
about thirty three thousand miles a year  
so  
well i usually  
see we we have our our band practice is on monday night  
and during the summer we uh we have concerts every monday night in the park  
and uh we we have you know some concerts during the year  
and you know various people in the communities want us to play for things  
but those are usually on the weekend  
so that isn't too bad  
well we got uh pretty good size band  
not everybody shows up  
but if everyone did we'd probably have over a hundred  
but   we only average about forty to fifty people a you know usually  
yeah  
oh no  
no  
this is a  
it's a concert band  
and uh we have a lot of  
i i don't pretend to be that good  
but there's a lot of people that uh you know are band directors at schools or have been  
or uh you know there some people that are actually music majors  
they don't necessarily follow that any more you know  
that isn't necessarily their career  
but uh we have some extremely good talent in there  
and uh as a rule it sounds pretty decent  
so  
it's fun  
well i don't know if i have any or not  
i i've always enjoyed it  
i sing in a church choir on wednesday nights when i'm around and play in the band on monday nights and keeps you out of trouble that way  
well i uh don't seem to have as much spare time as i used to  
but i guess i'll have to say my computer has probably taken the place of most of my hobbies  
well i sit and design cards  
and uh-oh i i'm really into graphics  
so it it just i sit and learn new programs  
and i play  
and i do this  
and i do that  
and   i'm i'm starting a side business in desk top publishing  
and uh it's just getting going  
i i'm teaching in the daytime  
and uh   i teach business and computer technology  
well i guess  
it's uh to high school kids it's uh alternative learning  
and uh it's it's really a challenge  
but what hobbies do you have  
ooh neat  
well i hope you all had as pretty a day today as we did  
oh well now yes  
i don't think you can blame the weather on that  
we had  
on any given day they say  
uh i haven't i haven't played in a while but i do when i get time and it's pretty weather and it's summer i like to play golf  
oh i uh-oh i take [spells]  
i'm i'm kind of a compulsive [obsessive] person  
and when i start something i i go into it a thousand percent  
and then i get i get burned out on it  
but uh i do some counted cross stitch and some painting on shirts  
well it doesn't seem like i get anything done  
but i guess i do  
and   i i like to bake  
it's just me in the house  
so when i bake it's usually to take out for something  
well  
oh okay  
oh how neat  
so you do quite a bit of traveling then  
ooh well that doesn't leave a lot of time for hobbies  
does it  
how big is your band  
ooh  
well that's still a pretty good size band  
it's not like there are four or five of you there  
i i have absolutely no musical ability whatsoever  
and i'm always very envious of people who do  
well i'm probably one of the few people that the  
hello  
okay  
i pressed one  
so i guess we're recording now  
okay um  
um  
um  
okay  
well i've i have had some because i was working for p i e  
and they went bankrupt  
so   i've got quite a bit of spare time right now  
and i've been making dolls cloth dolls  
uh_huh  
and uh  
yeah  
it's a they're all cloth  
it's not uh any porcelain at all  
yeah  
and i make the clothes for them  
and  
um no  
you can get the little curly hair   at the craft shop  
i made some of them with that hair  
and then uh don't ask me what the other hair i made  
it looked like um it looked  
well i made some of them with regular wigs  
i went to the flea markets and bought you know like the wigs for a dollar  
then i cut a v shape out of the back of them   and then sewed them on  
they looked really cute  
i have sold five of them so far  
uh_huh  
i just have to get a place where you know i can sell them actually  
uh if i would just work all day long making the clothes and everything probably about two and a half days  
uh_huh  
so  
yes  
i really do  
and then i also crochet  
and  
yeah  
yeah  
i tried knitting first  
but i don't know  
i i didn't like it  
so then i went to crocheting  
but now i want to learn how to knit again  
you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i in fact i just bought a serger in december  
yeah  
i haven't done everything on it yet you know  
but just what little bit i have used it for i really like it  
you know especially making the seams and things like that you know it's it's got such a professional finish on them  
yeah  
so i like that  
and  
well fifty seven's not young  
but no  
my son's has been married for almost ten years  
but they don't have any children  
so i just make clothes for my dolls  
just you know just like sewing and stuff and decided to buy a pattern and try to make a doll  
and they they turned out really cute  
yeah  
you got to have a pattern for the body   you know  
and uh  
yes  
yes  
aren't they cute  
uh_huh  
no  
i i bought a bunny pattern one time  
but when i sewed it up the face of it looked like a mouse  
uh_huh  
see it was too pointed  
so i tore it back apart again  
and i haven't tried another one  
no  
but i bought a little lamb pattern and the material and everything to make it out of  
but i haven't made it yet  
no  
i don't   paint except i stenciled my wall  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh yeah  
i my neighbor did it first  
and i seen her house  
and i saw how beautiful it looked  
so then i decided well i was going to do it  
and   uh it turned out really really good  
uh mostly flowers   you know  
i've done it in the all uh all my rooms  
i put it in the bedrooms and the bathroom  
hi  
okay  
um as far as spare time they talked about  
i don't i think  
who has any spare time  
i've got a a six year old and a um  
well my baby's one today  
today's his birthday  
and i'm also i'm expecting  
and so i i don't know  
i haven't had much spare time lately  
but  
oh uh_huh  
oh have you  
oh  
you sew the bodies and everything  
so so you just sew everything up huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
what kind  
do they have yarn hair  
or  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
oh did you  
oh uh_huh  
oh my goodness  
it sounds like you're creative  
uh do you sell them  
oh have you  
yeah  
i bet  
how long does it take you to make one  
oh really  
oh  
do you enjoy it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
i i i can crochet and knit  
um actually i started an afghan  
but it's been a whole long time ago   probably over a year ago  
and it's sitting in my closet half done right now  
but it's a knitting one  
and  
oh didn't you  
oh  
i  
yeah  
i enjoy knitting  
i i kind of like that  
but i just like i say haven't done it for a while  
and i do like sewing sometimes  
i i've made a few of the you know just the little [valence] curtains in my house and   things like that  
but it it's just finding the time for these things that you   you enjoy  
but  
oh i would love one of these  
oh that's neat  
oh those are wonderful aren't they  
oh yeah  
that and that's what i hate doing is the finishing stuff  
it'd be nice to have that  
oh that's neat  
well do you have um uh  
i guess you're kind of young  
i was going to say do you have grand kids or anything to make dolls for  
oh uh_huh  
oh well  
well how did you get involved in that  
so you did buy a pattern and then started from there  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
have you ever seen those [bunnies]   that they dress  
yeah  
i i did make some clothes for one of those   dress one of those  
yeah  
i have quite a few of them actually in my house  
i and most of them i have bought um already [clothed]  
but i did   i did make the dress on one  
and i kind of made the pattern up  
it's not it's probably not the best  
but  
oh it did  
oh  
oh  
you haven't sewn it back up huh  
uh_huh  
uh do you do any kind of painting or anything  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
i i tried that  
i did i i ended up just stenciling a um a blind like a just a roller shade  
but i i can i had a hard time stenciling  
for some reason i just couldn't do it  
and people have told me it's very easy  
well  
what design did you use  
oh uh_huh  
and what room  
have you  
okay uh  
what kind of hobbies do you have lori  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
where do you play golf in this area  
uh_huh  
do you uh do you ride or do you pull a cart when you play golf  
oh  
i was going to say that could be difficult  
uh_huh  
i think that might be true  
i don't like pulling a cart on [firewell] golf course because they want you to pull the cart on the path  
that is the reason i don't play over there  
i like the course but i don't play over there because you they don't uh you know don't allow you to pull a cart  
and i don't think a cart damages the turf  
uh_huh  
well i guess i could use a card too  
i live uh very near uh very close to the firewheel golf course  
yes  
i live in northwest garland  
right up there near the golf course  
well in the last two years i have not played very much golf because i am involved in boy scouts  
so i have uh i have uh i have children   boy scout age  
i have two boys that are boy scout age  
and uh so   i am very active in boy scouts  
so i would have to say that camping and hiking and canoeing and boy scouts is my hobby  
but i  
but my golf clubs will probably rust before i get to use them again  
because my boys are still right at the beginning age  
and it is probably going to be six to eight years before they go to college  
that's right  
lessons are expensive though  
well they would probably never make it then  
because i don't think uh  
i only took lessons for golf when i was in college  
uh as a course for p e you know   so i could graduate  
but uh that is the only time i think i have ever really taken golf lessons  
and that was kind of a group   scenario   and not individual  
i took one lesson one other time  
besides that uh i just uh try to make the club hit the ball  
i don't want to play strike out you know  
but i have fun doing it  
some uh you know i have some good shots and some bad shots  
so you said you work uh in the gardens too  
do you have uh a special flowers  
my wife had uh just put in a bunch of i want to say they are pansies  
she put them in like two months ago cause they are winter plants  
and they have been  
we thought even with all the cold weather weather we have had they have been blooming just fine  
that is when she did i think  
uh_huh  
do they survive longer if you plant them in the winter time  
will they make it through the summer sun  
well  
well that is good  
uh i guess i uh i like to play golf  
and uh i also like to plant flowers and do do some gardening and do arts and crafts  
well we live uh pretty close   to the mesquite golf course  
so we will play either out there or at firewheel  
that is usually where we play  
but i have played you know different courses in in the dallas area  
uh both  
not at the same time  
no sometimes we ride  
and sometimes uh we pull  
we like to to uh a lot of the times just walk uh for the exercise  
but  
i find that when i ride in a cart i play better  
and i think it is cause i don't get as tired  
yeah  
i know  
and that makes me so mad  
you know it is like it is not going to do that much damage to the course but apparently they think differently  
yeah  
right  
right  
well the reason why we play over there is because its where since we are a garland resident they gave us a special deal where you can get uh ten rounds of golf for a hundred dollars  
yeah  
a hundred dollars  
cause it is half price what the normal green fees are  
so that is why we you know play over there  
cause we have got our card  
oh do you  
so you live in garland then  
okay  
well we are in south garland  
but yeah next time you go uh you know check into it  
they have uh  
it is just like uh a bus card  
and they just punch it you know  
it has got one through ten on it  
and every time you go they just punch it for you  
oh okay  
you must have a a son  
oh okay  
yeah  
oh well that sounds like fun too  
uh_huh  
well you need to uh teach them how to play and take them out on the course with you  
oh yeah  
well you can teach them  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
yeah  
i know what you mean  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
it it is just nice to get outdoors and do something  
well flower gardens  
i like to have  
matter of fact this past weekend i just got finished planting a bunch of [tulips] and [daffodil] bulbs  
so those ought to be coming up around spring time  
uh_huh  
right  
oh they do great  
i put mine in probably in november  
yeah  
i think it was november  
and i don't do anything to mine water them or anything  
and they just  
they do really good  
and i even had uh i guess it was last year or the year before i had some out  
and it froze  
and the pansies looked terrible but they came back later  
i didn't do anything to them  
so they are uh they are good to plant in the winter time  
they last for a long time then  
so if you start putting them you know you can put them out in the spring too  
but once it starts getting real hot   then it just kills them cause they can't stand the hot weather  
no  
they won't make it through the summer because it gets too hot  
but they make it through probably winter and spring  
so  
yeah  
i have got some of those too  
cause i love flowers  
yeah  
and i do i try to do some arts and crafts  
and i love to go  
okay uh i guess we are just supposed to talk about things we do in our spare time  
uh i basically read books  
it is  
i do  
sometimes when everybody's gone to bed my kids are in bed and my husband in bed  
so i will just stay up and finish a book that i am  
i have about three books that i am going on  
and i will work on one for a little bit you know and then the next one  
but that's just kind of  
not always  
just sometimes  
uh just really different ones  
uh i have one that i was reading on uh raising your children and then another one on a an autobiography and another one on uh uh uh like a crime story  
a true crime story  
yeah  
but this  
it was a true one  
it was just a little different though  
reading that one last night  
yeah  
like my husband  
yeah  
you must uh work for t i  
yeah  
my husband does too  
yeah  
uh_huh  
really  
oh really  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
what kinds of things do you fix  
oh  
and you have a shop  
yeah  
yeah  
you can fix just about everything and anything  
well that is great  
yeah  
yeah  
that is pretty much like my husband  
he is he is pretty uh mobile in that area too  
he he works on the cars  
he rarely takes them in  
and uh he works on irons and all t v and stuff too  
we rarely have to take those things in too  
oh yeah  
yeah  
definitely  
uh not really  
i mean during christmas i work on you know like uh holiday sweat shirts and those kinds of things  
but but uh not really  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh i belong to this organization for uh if if you have preschool children  
and uh every once and a while they will have a craft uh section for the moms  
and those are really neat  
and we learn to do the uh transfer pictures on the sweatshirts   transfer photos  
and uh those are really neat  
so we learn different crafts like that   uh  
yeah  
no  
i cook dinner  
i don't consider it a hobby  
but uh you know i  
no  
i am not a real elaborate cook or anything like that unfortunately  
i like to bake off and on  
and usually once a week i will bake something  
but it's not anything elaborate you know  
at least i don't think it is  
so  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
well good  
you have a computer at home  
oh good  
yeah  
oh really  
wow  
then you are busy  
uh_huh  
that is very good  
well you know one of the books that i did that i was reading  
and i stopped because it was so  
it's  
the book is so detailed  
and you have to  
sometimes i have to go back and read the page over again cause i didn't quite get it all  
and uh it is so detailed  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well that is pretty impressive to have three books going  
oh yeah  
and what what kind of books do you read  
oh yeah  
oh do you like those detective stories  
oh well that is interesting  
actually i like to read also  
but uh usually fall into one or two categories either true science fiction or fantasy on the one hand or highly technical  
yeah  
yeah  
kind of one or the other  
uh   i do  
yes  
yeah  
and i am a computer scientist  
but i have a lot of other hobbies  
well yeah  
i am kind of uh i guess what you would call it a project person  
yeah  
and i love  
like i have a shop  
and when things break around the house i always try to fix them myself  
and so hobby  
it's its' funny uh  
from the one stand point it is work  
but it is a hobby too that i enjoy   to do  
to find broken  
well essentially anything you find in a house uh a stove or oven or a broken piece of porcelain or uh chipped tile on the floor i mean just anything  
well it it is not anything elaborate  
it is just a work bench and a [gazillion] tools  
but enough that again for anything in the house i could probably  
right  
and in the car  
i guess the car too  
and so uh i think i probably would consider that a hobby  
although sometimes it gets to be excessive  
yeah  
i  
right  
yeah  
i think it it  
not only can it be fun  
but it can certainly help your finances  
so do you have any art uh how do i say it creative or artistic hobbies  
oh yeah  
well that's good  
yeah  
well i don't necessarily either  
i can [plink] out a song or two on a piano  
and i can uh  
i don't necessarily draw or do any of that kind of art  
i guess   uh graphic arts   is that what they call it  
i can't do any of that  
but sweat shirts is certainly impressive  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
i see  
well that is neat  
i guess you could consider that a hobby  
do you do you cook for a hobby  
or do you  
that's not something you  
i understand that  
yeah  
right  
yeah  
but i think that still borders on hobby  
probably the other thing i do which i am sure will sound horrible to you but is i program for fun uh on the computer  
so i have little projects little computer projects going on that i consider hobbies  
but drive my wife crazy  
i do  
yes  
in fact there is actually several of them here right now  
not all of them being mine  
yeah  
uh i wonder if you can [construe] raising children as being a hobby  
uh_huh  
okay  
oh well actually i'm from california  
and before then i was from utah  
so  
well i grew up in california  
and then i went to school in utah  
and i got married there  
and we stayed there for a while  
and then now we're in iowa  
oh really  
oh  
um  
well i crochet  
and i do water color  
and i um sew  
and i do fabric painting  
um i've done some cross stitching  
i haven't tried any needlepoint yet  
how about you  
oh right  
oh really  
uh_huh  
oh gosh  
oh yeah  
well those take a lot of time  
i only can do things that are pretty fast because we just um got our baby last year  
and i just don't have the patience to just you know do something  
uh_huh  
um i crocheted an afghan for our bed  
that's the only thing  
and and i did a quilt  
let's see i've done a quilt for our baby  
and i've done a quilt for our bed  
but i mean  
um  
um our baby's quilt it was a pre like the design  
i just went around the design   in the quilt  
i didn't piece it or anything like that  
but uh  
uh_huh  
and  
um i put it on the frame the quilting frame  
have you are you familiar with that  
yeah  
okay  
oh my god  
well i haven't done tons of them  
but um i used to do more before um before i had before we got our baby  
but  
uh_huh  
yes  
exactly  
well one thing that i like about this fabric painting thing is i can just make a t shirt and put a little [ruffle] around it and then um cut out a little pattern from the material from some material like flowers or something and make um a design or you know a little arrangement or something on the shirt and you know fuse it on with heat and bond or whatever and then paint around it  
and i usually sew sew around the flower whatever first  
and then i paint around it  
so you can't see the stitching as much  
does does that make sense to you  
so  
oh  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh  
well  
yeah  
someone told me that that it that they had done it both ways  
and i've always after hearing that i always sewed it on even even with the uh a loose [zigzag] even helps  
and um  
well if you're from iowa you must be very [artsy] crafty  
everyone i've ever known from the midwest can do everything with their hands  
i didn't know anyone ever moved from california to iowa  
i'm teasing only because i'm from indiana  
i really like i like the midwest  
but i married a texan  
and they have a way of dragging you back home  
anyway we're supposed to be talking about crafts  
do you um do you have any hobbies that that you do things with your hands   like knitting or  
oh you do a lot then  
do you do needlepoint also and cross stitching  
um actually i i'm pretty [untalented]  
i used to do a lot of knitting and crocheting um  
but i i don't know  
somehow i don't have the time anymore  
but i have all these friends that wherever you go they they sit down and the next thing you know they pull out of their uh   bags some their most recent uh needle craft  
and in december everyone was doing stockings you know   these gorgeous detailed   minute tiny stitch stockings  
yes  
is this your first baby  
have you crocheted or [knitted] any baby clothes or baby blankets  
did you embroidery the pattern and then quilt it yourself  
or   how did you make a quilt  
uh_huh  
but you actually hand [quilted] it yourself  
did did you need a [loom]  
or were you  
was it small enough that you could just hold it  
uh_huh  
but um my again my mother back in indiana  
we had a quilting frame in our basement  
and she would she would quilt whole quilts by herself  
um yes  
which  
i was always amazed  
i have one of them um  
but uh you know to have the quilting frame and then to actually do that it's a tremendous amount of work  
oh you think children  
you can um use crafts to make wonderful things for children  
i think when babies  
i think afghans and and the crocheted little sweaters and are are wonderful  
and and they'll wear them  
once they get old enough to talk then they no longer will wear them  
oh yes  
i think it's very clever  
it's uh funny that you said  
for christmas my daughter and i received matching sweat shirts   that a friend had made for us a beautiful christmas design  
and they were matching  
and they were lovely  
but when i washed them although i took the precaution of turning them inside out   i really didn't do anything else   and truly everything fell off or   most of it  
so i had i went and bought just some cloth glue and glued it all back  
and i bought the paint and redid most of the edges  
and and it was [salvageable]  
and i  
but it's  
so i'm familiar with that  
but i think you're very clever to um sew around the edges  
i think [gluing] alone certainly if you wash it any amount of time it   tends to kind of come loose at the edges  
are we tonight  
okay  
well let me go ahead and press one  
okay leslie  
i'd like to find out a little bit about your hobbies  
what do you like to do in your spare time  
actually it's a [cherished] commodity now days huh  
oh great  
uh_huh  
what kind of music  
oh okay  
well great  
i enjoy music too  
and i uh  
one thing that i like to do uh is sit down and play the piano  
i can't play that well  
but i uh sit down and enjoy playing musical selections that i am familiar with   my my family is familiar with  
i enjoy that  
uh a couple of hobbies that i also have is uh  
i really enjoy bike riding  
and the biggest hobbies i have right now are my kids and whatever they are involved in  
like my uh oldest boy is involved in soccer  
so we go out and play kick the soccer ball around or play throw the football  
and uh we also like to uh ride bicycles  
so we're riding bicycles  
and so a lot of the hobbies that i have right now are centered around my my children and also things that my wife and i like to do   together  
and uh so personally a lot of the hobbies i had when i was growing up and uh going to college and so forth are having to change  
i really enjoyed uh mountain climbing  
i really enjoyed skiing uh and a lot of outdoor activities  
uh there's not a whole lot of mountains here in texas   that i can go skiing with that right now  
but hopefully i will be able to get back to the [slopes] some day  
but  
uh_huh  
you didn't  
yeah  
that's true  
that's true  
oh yeah  
i guess that for me it was very helpful  
my two oldest brothers were very interested in skiing  
and so we we went quite often  
and uh in fact my brother still does a lot of skiing  
when i lived around in that area my brother would fly in from chicago  
and we would go skiing and enjoy that  
so but uh luckily it's kind of unusual because hobbies it's a it's a nice thing to have  
and it's good to fall back on those hobbies when you have time to like you mentioned  
and i am finding out a lot of the spare time that i had isn't there  
it's uh it's uh taken up by activities with uh work with family with uh civic and church responsibilities for me  
so  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
oh yeah  
well great  
what again  
so you have participated with that in the past  
have you participated in that in the past  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
it sounds like her life is full too  
i imagine your life is full   taking them around all over the place  
all right  
all right  
well leslie it's been very nice talking to you  
is there anything else that you would like to   mention tonight  
or  
oh okay  
great  
well thank you  
and you have a nice evening  
bye now  
yeah  
sure  
well and when i have my spare time   i do enjoy  
that's right  
uh i do enjoy uh sewing  
i hand uh  
i do some needlepoint  
and i i've been doing a a picture for my father in law  
but if i uh ever get enough spare time   he might see it one day  
and some other things i like to do are is music and uh also reading  
well i enjoy singing  
yeah  
um  
uh_huh  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
oh yeah  
i have not had the opportunity to go skiing  
but uh i grew up in arizona which has some mountains around it  
but   uh never did get out and ski  
no  
i never did  
didn't have the uh i guess i didn't have the person out there saying hey let me take you skiing  
and of course i was at that you know stage of my life where i had to be taken to places  
i couldn't go by myself  
and then of course once i got to the age where i could have done it myself i had other interests i guess  
so  
oh yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i i find if i i make i have to make myself realize that it is important to get out there and you know just even to go for a walk is good recreation for me  
yeah  
and my youngest daughter is going to be starting up soccer  
so she's real excited about doing that  
we will be busy with that again  
pardon me  
well i did with my older daughter  
and she was in it for a few years  
but she has got so many interests herself that   we had to start eliminating  
and well the first one to go  
she still likes her piano  
and she is in band  
so she's got lots of hobbies or uh activities going on  
yeah  
very much  
that's right  
that's right  
uh  
no  
i think we covered it pretty good  
thank you for calling  
you too  
bye  
bye  
hi gary hi
today is uh saturday
have you found spare time to do any hobbies
is that right
inside your house
like [cactus] gardens
and that's nice
we do the same kind of things though we've been concentrating on outside lately trying to do some gardening and uh planting a lot of trees and flowers from the winter
yeah
we have a couple of those too
we uh we haven't planted a garden yet
we moved here from colorado not too long ago where we had a really big garden
but here
i i don't know
i i hear i hear that the growing is a little bit different
have you had a garden
uh_huh
have you ever tried any vegetables
yeah
that's what we had yeah
we just
it gets so hot
i just wonder you know what what vegetables can really take that heat we'll see
that's true
well i do some
oh some needle craft things hobbies
sometimes some cross stitch um no no sewing or knitting any of that um little things some cross stitch you know some gifts that i make for friends and families
that kind of thing
anything else you you do in your spare time
yeah
i have two small children
so i started to you know have them enrolled like in soccer and things like that i tend to be more of a spectator these days than participating
yeah
it's beautiful
mine has got a flat tire so i'm going to have to do something about that
well i don't uh have too much else i do in my spare time
how about you
is that right
did he sell them at craft shows and
uh_huh
oh that's neat
uh_huh
is it [pottery] or is it wood
oh that's beautiful
uh_huh
oh that sounds neat
how about like big salad bowls and those kind of things
uh_huh
boy they sound nice
well i don't think i've ever seen wooden plates at any of the craft shows
uh_huh
that sounds like a unique item
uh_huh
well that's good keeps them active
i'm sure
well it was good talking to you
all right
good luck with your indoor gardening there
i'll talk to you later
well if uh i like to i like to make stuffed animals
i i sort of have not been doing as much as i did
you know before i had to work for real
but i like to do things like that
and uh you know bottle covers and that sort of stuff and dancing the dancing i've i've kept up with
because you know you don't have to
well you don't have to get a lot of stuff out you know
what do you do
oh
yeah
oh wow
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
wow
yeah
and then it then it puts a lot of responsibility on you
yeah
yeah
oh well that
yeah
i like to sew too
but you know if i'm not in the mood to sew
i can screw things up like you wouldn't believe
yeah
and then it lies in a drawer for about five or six years at least
oh do you really
oh wow
how
exciting
oh i'll bet
uh_huh
yeah
oh that's neat
yeah
is it is it hard to make it come down
when you want to
oh it just comes down when it wants to
yeah
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
well have you flown in one of those where they have a whole bunch that go you know like up at one time
yeah
how long have they been doing that
oh that's neat
what about that one
they do in albuquerque yeah
that's the oldest one isn't it
wow
how many do they have like at the plano one
yeah
yeah
probably every year
it will
yeah
yeah
because those things are pretty expensive aren't they
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i had a friend at t i in detroit a long time ago that had one that a bank
had sponsored yeah
and it looks so pretty
when they're all you know when there's a bunch of them that way
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
oh
yeah
wow
sounds fun
oh i like to read too
what kind of books do you like
yeah
i like those
i like i like murder mysteries too
have you ever read any dean koontz
he he writes real good
it's the kind though that you don't want to start if you have to put it down or anything
yeah
yeah
the
he does
well they're sort of scary you know
but they're they're just really really good
the watchers you know they made a movie of the watchers here not too long ago
and that was a book that he wrote that that was my favorite one
it's about this dog named einstein and this
it was he was an experimental government thing you know
and they were trying to do like like [robotic] stuff and everything
yeah
yeah
well the book was just ever so much better
yeah
it was great
you like uh uh who is it uh victoria victoria [holt] is that right
yeah
those are good
i like those
oh really
well that's
i
really
yeah
oh
what what what one is that
um
yeah
usually the the movies are not as good
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
that's usually the way it is
sometimes they just change them completely
yeah
like jaws do you remember did you
yeah
the book was a lot better
i thought
but they just they just
well my dancing is
i i like to belly dance
yeah
yeah
well you know it's it's real funny because when i first started it was like i saw someone at a halloween party this lady was from turkey
and she'd been belly dancing since she was four years old you know
so i thought well jeez you know that looks like fun
i'll learn that in a couple of weeks ha
you know i mean you could just you could just take lessons for forever
i think
course i'm tend to be a slow [learner] i guess anyway
but it's a lot of fun
and it's it's a good way to get exercise
you know [fooling] yourself
because you don't realize you're getting exercise
you know it's so much fun
you don't really think about it and exercising
i mean let's face it exercising stinks
oh i go aerobics classes and stuff
but do you
are you do you are you at t i in
dallas
so so you go to the fitness center
no
oh yeah
yeah
i well the only time i can go in too
and all these classes that are available are like saturday
yeah
saturday morning which is you know i i go to those
when i can
yeah
well they have uh the they have them like at six
you know here
but i
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's a lot of fun
well yeah
that's the same kind of thing like belly dancing you know you don't really realize that you're working as hard as you are
yeah
it's sort of cute too
yeah
yeah
well see i belong to the fitness center
so i feel like i have to go to the aerobics class to get my money's worth
you know
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
well it's so neat because it's right there
and i can go just right after work and you know before i get home because once i get home that tends to be it
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
that's handy
and they're just there you know when you want to use them
uh_huh
yeah
and i i did the family thing
so my sweetie could go too
do the weights
he'll he'll he would never do an aerobics he'd die before he'd do aerobics class
but he likes the weights and the you know stationary bicycle
and all that
body build huh
uh_huh
i think they shave it
yeah
but
okay
i have two main hobbies
one of them is painting and the other one is collecting wine
but from your from the description
it sounds like they're more interested in painting
oh that's good
that's fine
well i'm a very big much in favor of red wines and i have about a thousand bottles down in my cellar
and i've been collecting it
now for oh fifteen years or so
oh okay
white [zinfandels] are not a big favorite of mine
the whites i like are these very okie [chardonais] like [kessler] and things like that
uh there are some
but
and in fact their white wines are better than their red wines because they don't get enough sun to make good red wine
i'm originally from el paso texas
and i have friend who has a [vineyard] actually it's in new mexico near la [yunon] new mexico which is just north of el paso up the valley
yes
some of them
oh mostly mostly figures i'd few done [landscapes] my grandmother was an artist
so when i was a little kid i was baby sat in her studio
so i learned to mix paint by watching people mix paint
things like that
so for years
i used to go to groups that hire a model and draw once a week when i lived in new jersey
and used to work at bell labs
and i'd go twice a week for three hours and you do that for about ten years you get to where you can actually draw pretty well
oh i still paint occasionally not as much as i used to
but i still paint
i have some stuff set up the only two things in my basement are my painting stuff
and the wine cellars
well i built it
i
yeah
had to have some way of storing them
so
yeah
i think you probably don't get very good very good number of square feet for your dollar building a basement there
that's probably why
so you must have a lot
well you ought to be seeing lots of flowers this time of year
you find out what it's like in that kind of business
and he probably didn't like that
well working in a research place
i work at national institute of standards and technology which used to be national bureau of standards
that's kind of an ivory tower place
so
there was lots of stuff
the only people i guess i know at t i are either the people who work in the speech program who run this this computer program or the people in the semiconductor area
i used to know paul [chattergy] and those kind of people
don't know if you'd know him or not
well i grew up in texas
and i moved away and never came back
so
i guess they are
it's been nice talking to you
oh they range from from from needlepoint to uh anything in the hobby field as far as um needlework is concerned
i've had to give it up recently because um i've got problems with uh nerves in my right hand
but basically it's anything in that hobby line i'll try anything including making uh earrings i have no love of yard work for hobby work though
how about you
oh fantastic
oh
i've been in a uh [glider] which as a student pilot i loved it [immensely] as a student pilot yeah
uh i was only in one one trip
something i would have liked to have kept up
but we moved out of colorado
so that was you know that ended that point
but yeah that i'll try as far as you could say hobby then i'll try anything that's unusual that i've never done once
just to find out what it's like the experience oh as but that's not a constant hobby
you know like i'll do uh-oh
i'll pick up normally a petit point or anything in [stitchery] type of line and if i'm really bored
i'll even pick up something and color it
but i do a lot designing also
well i've done a petit point which is really extremely hard
and uh that was very difficult for me
it took me oh i think that almost took me a year and a half to finish that
and petit point is like if you've seen regular needlepoint
it's one half of that in the stitches and it goes down like real small little tiny it's exactly what it says petit point
yes
it was tedious i dropped it as i said it took me about a year and a half because it's not something i could continuously do
but now i'm into more uh taking something that i like and trying to actually put it onto paper myself
which i find more enjoyment
that's got a lot of math to it at that point
uh this last one
i'm trying to do a house
there's a house here in plano actually it's a real estate office
but it has it's oh i would say it every section of this real estate office is a different type of a structure it goes from almost um castle looking on one side to a very old fashioned look on the other side and it just varies in each little section of this real estate office and i think they did it because of that purpose
it is a real estate office
but it fascinates me the way they've done it
and it's it looks good it's all done in brick the windows even vary on it
and that
it really fascinates me
so i've sat across the street from it
and i've tried to put it down on the paper now
it's on um
let's see fifteenth and uh park
well i live right around here
but it's not if you drive by it
you don't notice it because its all brick
there's no difference in the front except you can see the little difference if you actually stop and take a look at it
that's why it fascinates me
but uh again you know i'd like to be able to go ahead and take that some day and actually make a house of my own
well see you're doing the same thing when you're doing your [gazebo] your playing with numbers that's all this is
you're putting it on paper
so your just playing with numbers
it's like i would love to play with work
but i don't have the strength in my hands any more to do anything like that
but i've put up uh like um a wall board fixed a bedroom and put in a bath
yeah
i have a small [miter] box uh for hobby [mitering] and it does the same thing what you're saying
but i'd like to which i've been trying to find to go into as far as a permanent hobby which because i'm having difficulties with this is to go into uh i'm sure you've seen it is those wood uh-oh
they're they're wood pictures on the wall
but if one move if one part moves it [counterparts] the other parts and so like it's a continuous [counterpart] around it
and it's all made out of wood
and i have as i said i have a miniature uh [miter] box which is made for hobby works
and i've had that for quite a few years now
but i haven't really gone into that part
i've been thinking about making um oh ladders and everything for my uh pocket parrot
because they're hard to find toys for a pocket parrot
they make them for parrots and they make them for [cockatiels] and a pocket [parrot's] between the two
and so i need rings that are exactly between those two sizes so i'm going to
i've got some designs for
i go into the pet stores
but you can say again another hobby
i've got is my birds
so
um
i have a cockatiel and a pocket parrot
but um other than that
uh sam uh cockatiel talks he [whistles] at me and says good morning
uh he picked up most of his sayings from the other cockatiel i had the pocket parrot is a very quiet bird it's an extremely tame bird
it's uh if you're real gentle with it when you buy it
he'll come out and sit on your shoulder with no problem
yeah
they're a very very tender bird
well see when i was oh about i guess about ten years ago fifteen years ago i don't know if it's been that long
i took my dog my cat
and my bird into the vet at the same time
and he was just sitting there
he goes carol
you're the only one i know of that does this
and i go what's the problem because i never thought about it
i had never thought one thing at all about it
and of course the dog
and the cat and the bird are all out of the cage
and uh my bird at that time was picking the feathers out from underneath his wing and he uh finally said well you ought to get it a [mate] but the bird turned around and bit him he was furious
he was so mad at me
but yeah
he had a picture of my birds sitting on top of the cage with one tail inside of a front of a cat's face
and the tail of another cat walking underneath the cage
so he just loved it
he just absolutely adored it
well the one large cat that i still have uh he took [claw] marks and put it down my drapes going after the birds sitting out on a bird rack that we set up outside for birds going after the birds and then he'd get down and jump back up on the table and sit next to a cage that had two [cockatiels] out on top of the cage
i'd get so mad at that cat because i didn't realize what he was doing until i saw these big [claw] marks going down my drapes from his back claws
yeah
i didn't think i didn't appreciate too much
i mean it's rather i thought it was rather funny
here's a bird doing this
and two birds sitting right next to him
but i mean the birds were out they weren't in the cage
they were out
i never left them in
so i thought
but i still have that cat
in fact i have both cats which are my kids' cats
but the birds are in here with the cats they don't care
they keep an eye on any cat that walks outside
but they don't care about these cats
i don't know what it is
i've seen
okay
well good morning
and uh i guess the topic here is going to be hobbies
and if you have any just tell me what they are
really
oh that sounds fascinating
um well i'm i'm pretty traditional i've i've been doing um a little bit of quilting and uh i made my first quilt ever
i mean it's wonderful
it's beautiful
i don't know if there will be a second one but the first one is you know hand [pieced] and hand sewn and it took months upon months to do this
anyway um there's that
and then uh now i i've developed an interest in watercolor
so i'm taking some classes over at michael's and i'm trying to uh make it look good
i don't know that i just someone gave me some paints for christmas one year
and i said okay i'll try this
i guess i am i'm i've i've been sort of painting stuff
and people say why don't you let me hang that in my room you know
so i've got stuff hanging in people's houses that i look at now
and i go oh i can do so much better than that
so i guess i've you know developed somewhere along the line
but um you know it's it's an interesting thing and i really do like it it's real peaceful it's real quiet you know
it is it's amazing the results are incredible
um no
because i can't get beyond making this first quilt
i'm afraid if i make another one
i'm keeping it you know the watercolor i can dash off in twenty minutes and that's you know it's finished but um yeah
the quilting forget it
um i would even join a quilting group maybe to help somebody else finish their quilt sort of thing
you're right
yeah
they love that that would be good
really
and uh
yeah
i
yeah
i'm finding out that um there there are an awful lot of [quilters] out there and and it's not just traditional quilting either people you know are using it for making clothes
they have they make they call them crazy quilts
the [vests] and things like that
and they make whole outfits out of you know [scraps] of this and that and that's getting to be a real art form what you wear on your back
so you know maybe you'd like to try it
um but i think it's great that we have the availability here to you know um like michael's and and be able to be trained and and do some things like that
so that's a lot of fun
i
oh
oh
oh sure
oh absolutely
and i just i love flowers
i you know i got to have flowers around me
you know kind of thing
um but the button thing now that sounds really interesting you make earrings uh_huh
oh right
oh how clever right
my my sister in law up uh in illinois she was well in a real rural area and she's starting to collect antique buttons and she makes big cage pins out of them
and these big wooden buttons are just um you know they're all sort of [layered] and put together and glued in back and everything
but they are just incredible
they're so pretty
yeah
and it's they're all wooden buttons it's really neat
and she says everybody up there wears buttons on their socks yeah
they just you know
um do some artistic thing with the buttons and i don't know if they hot glue them on or whatever
but
yeah
i know this is this is mid state illinois
i don't know how long it will take if it ever gets here you know
but that's what they're doing with buttons down or up there
but that's really neat
i i uh
and and you do the painting on the t shirts too
the sweatshirts oh
oh there you are
what kind of medium do you use on them
or do you like [glitter] and painting scenes and
yeah
oh well sure
oh
oh well see that's that's really neat
that's a great outlet well christmas is only six months away now
right
i the year goes so fast
it's
an incredible thing
well i'm sure we enjoyed talking to you
today
and uh i think this is great
and keep on with those sweatshirts really
that's true
well
um most of my hobbies include three little girls
they keep me pretty busy
i uh we're home schooling
so i um am real involved in learning how to teach and teaching
and that kind of thing
um i'm also we're expecting a baby in august
so i've been trying to get some things in the house organized for that
and have repainted a couple of chairs and repainted a dresser and some of that kind of thing um
um yeah
we do different things uh i sew
so uh i haven't had a lot of time for it for a little while
but um that's one thing that we do do some of um
i
oh yeah
yeah
um i have i can do lots of things
and i enjoy lots of different things
i don't have a lot time for most of them
but when i do i like uh i like art i like uh the sewing
um let's see what else i can do you know lots of different things like cross stitch and different things
but i just don't spend that much time on it
uh quilting
i've made quilts for the girls' beds and things like that um
yeah
something to cover them and keep them warm
that's right
um
i think it could be
i do a little bit of gardening
yeah
it's more tedious
oh what do you do
oh wonderful
huh
i would love for my girls to take piano lessons
but we've been unemployed for a while
so i haven't had a chance to do that
so
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
you're more interested in the instruments then in voice
the t i thing
oh that's neat
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
i've enjoyed music too
um i was in choirs from fifth grade on
i think
and and uh had just a little piano a little violin i even had a little [bagpipe] at one time
yeah
in in ninth grade our high school is northern highlands in new jersey
they just that year they began teaching [bagpipe] for the to put together group
for it was fun
it was interesting
yeah
but uh we all enjoy music too
um i don't know if they want us to specifically to do more on the craft side
or
probably not
yeah
i i don't know how long we've gone
but okay
nice to talk to you too
okay
thank you
bye bye
hi
my name is donna donahue
yes
okay
i have a cold this morning
so you have to excuse
my my sound here
um i'm from uh plano texas
where are you from
oh okay
that's nice and easy um let's see
would you like to to start
or would you
okay
okay
um did you want me to start
oh i'm sorry
oh i have to start
okay
well um my
oh i did
i did push one
shall i push it again you think
no
okay um
my um i love to cross stitch and my husband and my son who is now eleven watch so much sports on t v
that lately i have been just in a cross stitch frenzy because i cannot stand being in the same room with the t v on with all the sports
so so much that i have to i can sit there as long as i'm cross stitching
and while i'm doing that
so that that's one of my my favorite hobbies that i that i like to what what about you
okay
oh
i do too
i
yes
it is
i i enjoy it too
and i have found a wonderful [framer] on fifteenth street down in old plano about two doors down from uh [nooks] and [crannies] um who who does he's really an artist
and he does a wonderful wonderful job with
i just give him my things
and he triple mats everything
and he has really nice frames
and i think when you it's very satisfying after you do something like that to have it framed and hang it up
um it it's always that's kind of the fun part
very reasonable
i have brought something to [michaels] and i was very disappointed in it
and it was just a small little picture for my daughter's room in fact there were two little cross stitches i did for her room
and um apparently two people framed them differently
they two people took instead of one person doing doing the framing
two people did it because the mats were just different sizes and to put them next to each other
it just didn't look right
and um he is so reasonable that um
and he has all these unusual frames that he uses his name is um i guess i can just tell you his name
it's matte ink
and it's um i think the address is ten eleven and a half on fifteenth because it's a skinny little door next to i think bows and it's upstairs and this little skinny door it's right on fifteenth street right down
right down by the railroad tracks his name is dan yes
closer to the
right down
down from [nooks] and [crannies] and it's matte m a t t e [inc] i n c period
and um he does such a beautiful job
i'll take something in
i do simple cross stitches mostly [samplers] and a few that are a little bit more complicated
but i don't really um with three kids running around
it's it's hard for me to get something too intricate
so i like something that's kind of quick and and i love i like doing the [samplers] i have a whole wall of them
and he'll just take this [sampler] which is just you know mediocre not so
great
and when he puts the colors
he picks out
little bits of um colors that he'll pick from your from your work
and and matte it with that little color and it just it just makes this wonderful piece of art
um so i'm real real happy with them
and they have some really nice books down there
have you seen the books in the small shops in um on fifteenth street
you know i'm fairly new to the area
so i'm always glad to find a nice little shop that has different books
but uh
do you
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
do you
um now i really usually don't get the real expensive [linens] to work on which uh maybe that's what you do
it's probably really really beautiful to do that
but i i just get the regular piece of cloth
you know and do it on that
but um
oh okay
well i guess i don't have as much time for hobbies as i used to
uh i got two young boys uh four and two
so i spend a lot of time
with them
but uh whenever the weather's nice
and uh we can get out
i like to work in the garden a little bit uh
yeah
yeah
that's pretty relaxing to me
really
wow that's great
uh_huh
uh_huh
wow that's pretty neat
yeah
um
i see
yeah
now that you have more and more time on your hands right
yeah
yeah
i know what you mean they take up all my time now i'm kind of looking forward to the time when uh they're a little bit older and they can get out and you know get a little more active in sports
uh
yeah
me too
i'm i'm really i can't wait for that time
i just can't wait
yeah
yeah
yeah
and my oldest is four
really
that's great
that's pretty good
yeah
mine's uh uh just now has started getting into well you know like all the other little little young kids
he he was up on the turtles and stuff
but now he's trying to get into robin hood
and so we're going get him one of those [nerf] robin hood bow and arrow things
uh_huh
oh
oh that's good
yeah
yeah
it always always helps when you got somebody to help you
uh_huh
yeah
wow
yeah
yeah
whenever uh uh every now and then i'll take mine to the park and they like play on all over that stuff that's at the park
and and it's like you said it's got the fort you know it's the whole works
made out of wood
yeah
he always goes over their houses uh
yeah
there aren't too many right now
actually mine are the oldest on our block
and the other ones are at least a year to two years younger
so
ours is a a block of pretty young kids right now
oh i see
i see
what kind of hobbies do you have
uh_huh
well i collect uh antique [glassware] so i like hitting the antique shows and and uh collecting i particularly like uh antique pitchers
and my husband is interested in those too
and uh so we do that
and uh i play a lot of bridge that's kind of a hobby
well we lived in a a small town in oklahoma
for a while
and that was the major entertainment
in fact that was about the only entertainment other than [gossiping] about people
so that's where i learned it
and then i stayed with it and don't play as much of it now as as i used to because i work
now
and uh stuff
but i do enjoy that
yeah
it can be it can be very detailed
and if you're playing with someone that is really serious
i mean you can't talk you can't bat an eye
you can't do anything you know
and uh uh i play in a group that we've been playing together now about seventeen years here in texas
and uh it
yeah
well what's funny is we started out that it used to be that we started playing at seven thirty and we played till midnight
and we played bridge now we get together
and we finally start bridge about eight or eight thirty we play for an hour and then we stop and talk and have dessert
shows our age
right
well it shows our age we have to be home by ten anymore
i said you'd think that we were seventy years old
oh yeah
well i know that you as you get older
uh and that you're working and are involved with families and grandchildren and stuff
it just seems like that
you know you have to have some rest
so uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh do you
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
oh what uh
uh_huh
yes
yeah
i i i think i have
yeah
it seems like i have passed it uh
yeah
yeah
over on about the same side
yeah
it is
we we enjoy it very much is uh your uh sister married to a bird
white
okay
because i know that there is a professor bird here has gotten uh a lot of people in utah signed up on the program
uh_huh
i'm familiar with it because i uh i work on the day
i work on this project for t i
i'm a contract person
and uh so you know i'm familiar with some of the names that come through and and areas and stuff
uh_huh
are are you enjoying the program
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
i think you'll enjoy it
i think you'll enjoy talking to different people you know over the united states and uh it's kind of interesting
it's interesting to hear other people's points of view and and kind of get acquainted with them
and
yeah
i've talked to uh someone in washington d c
and pennsylvania and ohio and uh i think i've talked to three people in utah one in in provo uh a young lady is a student up there
and a wife and now you
and then course a bunch of them from texas
area
and uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh
well actually uh they're using me as a target caller and i'm really supposed to keep us on the target and as you can see we have not been on it
some of
uh because they use it in the research and and they study voice patterns
so like they take all the topics on say hobbies
and then they'll study these voice patterns
and to you know to see the different way ways people will say certain words and things you know
and
yes
right
correct
and uh so uh tomorrow if my boss hears this he's going to say nancy you didn't stay on the topic
and i record this
i will listen to our conversation tomorrow as it is
well it's interesting to talk about hobby hobbies when you're so close to christmas
and don't have any time to do any of them
but um well i love to sew
i like to
well i really don't do as much of that
um i enjoy that
but i work full time
so i just don't have time to do too much of that
but um i really spend more time doing crafty kind of sewing yeah
you know doing you know [appliques] on t shirts and you know that kind of fun
stuff
and i make a lot of christmas gifts too
oh well let's see um one year i made a lot of um jewelry bags
the little round thing that you draw up with a string you know
and has [compartments] in it
and they're you know they go pretty quickly
and um make a real nice gift you know
yeah
what kinds of things do you do
oh neat
did you take a class uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
yes
ooh neat
yeah
oh yeah
that's neat
have you painted on t shirts or sweat shirts at all
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
no
i really haven't i i just haven't done anything with with paint
i think i could do i could do some
i'm not an artistic like you know artist kind of person
but um but a lot of the stuff they do really you know evidently is pretty easy
but i've just never
you know never gotten to it
i just you know don't have
time
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
it comes out looking really nice
we just had a there's a gal in the um i'm a school librarian
and there's a mom at our school that
is really quite an artist
and she does these [adorable] little kids that are just funny
i mean i just look at them
and they just make me laugh
they have you know hair that sticks straight out and stuff like that
and she she also makes dolls
but she also paints
so i've had her paint like on a [denim] [jumper] these children around the bottom
and it's so cute
and recently i had her to do um a couple of t shirts for me and my my aide that um have the children on them
and it has um a little stack of books and one of the kids is reading and one's wearing a t shirt that says i love to read
and then it has the name of our school on you know on the kid's um shirt
so they really are cute
and uh she does them so quickly
and she only charges ten dollars to paint
i mean there must be five children
on you know on the front of the t shirt plus all this other little stuff
and it was ten dollars to to do that
yes
yes
um this particular one i told her
i said if you do this real cute i said you'll probably have about fifty more orders from all the teachers in my school
yeah
well she just did them
i just got them a couple days ago
so so i think as soon as we wear them to school and everybody sees them
it'll be
it'll be good
um
just a few i made two bears this christmas
not out of [furry] but you know out of the christmas kind of fabric
they were they turned out real cute
and they were easy
they were um you know from the fabric store
buy the already [stamped] on it and all
but they're real cute they're real cute you know christmas looking patterns
i gave one away and kept one
but i also love to do things that have to do with like either dried dried flowers and silk flowers and you know make not so much arrangements like to sit on a table
but you know to go on a wall
or you know some pretty stuff on top of a basket
or around a basket you know the dried stuff
around the top edge of the basket
with the spanish moss and all the flowers and stuff
and um and i do fabric in baskets a lot
all the [ruffles] and all that stuff you know
um
well it's it's called talent with a hot glue gun you know
mark i was wondering if you had any uh what do what do you like to do in your spare time
really
have you had lessons guitar lessons
uh_huh
huh well have you ever wanted to play in a band
well and bad hours too
huh well i um i like to play the piano
i mean i like to dabble in it
i don't play very well
but uh i wouldn't say that was a hobby so much as um i usually you know i do some crafts and things
but mostly out of necessity like if it's christmas time or birthday or uh we bought a house not too long ago
and i needed some decorations and things
for the walls and so i've done some um crafts and things to hang up
but i don't do it
i don't think so much out of enjoyment
do you do your woodworking for enjoyment
uh_huh
yeah
that's true
is it one of those uh things that you have to have expensive equipment for
uh_huh
uh_huh um
sounds like it
uh_huh
uh_huh
exactly
that's pretty funny
well i uh since my kids started to school um they have to have costumes it seems like every little bit
they have like a [pirate] day
a little [pilgrim] [feast] and things and so i've done some
right
so i've done some sewing and things
but uh you know to meet the demands of all these costumes but uh
and i enjoy it in a way
but um it seems like we keep busy
you know at work
and at school and i volunteer a lot of places
so that in my spare time i like to rest and to read
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
yeah
well there's a lot of people that enjoy sewing
um but i have uh you know done some knitting and some other crafts
like that
but not uh you know not so much because it's also expensive to go and collect all of the material
and then the tools you need
uh_huh
i like that
uh_huh
and it's
right
and it's functional for you're always needing you know
it's nice to do your christmas cards
yeah
sounds good
yeah
that's right
we have enjoyed that seems like um we've done a lot too
well has it has it been snowing that way wherever you are
well uh the primary thing that i do uh is go around and uh collect uh [collectibles] purchase [collectibles] and uh and some antiques uh go to a lot of garage sales and estate sales
and collect [signatures] uh yeah important people um oh some are just uh sports fans
uh i had i land like [aviation] so i've got a number of them from uh uh like the [wright] brothers uh uh chuck [yeager] uh charles [lindbergh] things like that
yeah
oh do you
what do you have
yeah
sure
uh_huh
yeah
oh gee
well that sounds like fun
yeah
oh yeah
well as a matter of fact i've been seriously considering uh restoring a car
um i was looking at a nash metropolitan i don't know if you know what those are
uh they're little two tone uh cars that came out in
yeah
really
huh
yeah
yeah
does he want to sell it
um
yeah
now i'm
i've been trying to find one that's uh
uh i was looking at getting one of those and trying to restore it
yeah
yeah
oh
both of them because most of the folks that i found and i i used to play a lot of tennis
and when i started playing racquetball
by the time i finally got a swing down for racquetball
i found out i couldn't play tennis any more
uh_huh
yeah
oh good
yeah
yeah
well it's tough to those ceiling shots on a tennis court
yeah
i tell you i really like uh racquetball
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i like it better than uh tennis just because i don't have to go so far to get the ball
good
so what kind of hobbies do do you have cathy and cross stitch and uh needle point uh_huh
and you do crocheting
my goodness
i ought to have my wife here talking to you
i think
well i don't whether you can call it a hobby or not
and many years ago music was a hobby
to me
but as i have gotten older i found out that music has taken over about half of my time
and uh now that i i retired about uh not quite a month ago
that will be uh i guess most of my efforts
well i i
well yes
i play uh violin
and uh in three different symphony orchestras
a local one here in state college and one in [altoona] which is
oh forty five miles away
and and another one at the [lockhaven] university which is about forty five fifty miles away
and uh i formed what is called a state college municipal band oh about ten or fifteen years ago i play trumpet in that
and comes out to occasionally once in a while
so i am pretty busy in keeping that band going and trying to keep my violin playing up to uh an acceptable level of these other orchestras
yeah
it does take a lot of work
and then when i have spare time i uh also am an amateur radio operator no
i don't
uh_huh
i have so little opportunity
i am hopefully in the next year or so going to uh rebuild my station
and uh get back on the air a little bit more consistently i do have the equipment
but as the antennas blew down the last few years
i just went off the air
and that uh that was the end of that
it is it's it's a very interesting thing to talk to people all over the world
it's what it amounts to
it depends upon the frequency and how good of an antenna you have and how conditions are about every eleven or twelve years conditions change
so that uh you're signals get into different parts of the world
man
i have at one time or another talked to almost not every country in the world
but in all areas of the world
i uh-oh
i have when i was really active
i had well over a hundred different countries
that i had talked to
yeah
uh_huh
fairly consistently yeah
well tell me about this work that you do
and uh
do you display these sell them or uh how do uh
uh_huh
you know that sounds exactly like things that jack does
that is a shame
uh_huh
yeah
and this is something that you would make into one square and hang on the wall
is that the way you do it
uh_huh
uh_huh
where do you get the information to that enables you to do these different pictures uh are they already worked out so that you know
uh_huh
yeah
huh
well that is a very interesting thing it is awfully nice to have something to do that that you enjoy so much that you can put you soul into it so to speak
yeah
i can imagine
from needles yeah
[ceramics] sounds interesting
uh i do computer programming kind of a on the side
and i also like to uh do gardening and also like to workout
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i i uh i work with computers at work
and then i come home and and i have uh a little lap top at home that i just like to play with
yeah
well [pottery] sounds interesting
have you made a lot of uh a lot of [vases] and things
or
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
do you have your own [kiln] or do you
oh
oh
well that that doesn't sound like it's too expensive a hobby does uh does the uh clay
and and the paints and things are they expensive
uh_huh
well that doesn't sound very expensive to me
uh_huh
yeah
um
uh_huh
huh
oh no
well well children will tend to do that
well
well i i enjoy working out when i i get home from work just to just to have something to do that that i know
isn't going
that's that's good for me something to do other than excuse me
uh_huh
occasionally i'll record one of the shows that's on in the morning while i'm at work
and i'll do them when i get home
um
yeah
well i really
i enjoy doing that
that is that can be a a big workout
do you play volleyball a lot
um
yeah
yeah
i i enjoy volleyball
i'm just not very good at it
and i end up killing my knees uh_huh
wow
yeah
um
um i have several friends that play softball they play softball in different church leagues
around town
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
no kidding hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable they're not supposed to be difficult
or or they're not supposed to make you less relaxed than when you began
uh_huh
uh_huh
well i uh i have a a computer information systems degree from school and i've been at it awhile
so you know you just kind of learn the tricks of the trade and and move on
uh yeah
yeah
well i need to run
i enjoyed talking to you
uh well let's see i suppose i could say i joy crocheting um gardening knitting oh hiking
well it seems like i don't have time for them
but i'm i don't work full time or anything
i sell avon and stanley products
but it's that's not you know the same as an eight hour job
yeah
it's it's up to the person
oh uh_huh
oh
you sound young
uh_huh
oh good
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
that could be a little boring
sometimes i guess too
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
how how old is your little boy
oh is it really
oh how old
oh that's nice
my baby's expecting her first baby
this month say yes
so our our children are all grown up
just one of them
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
yeah
we we had for a while them uh well we still do a lot of picture taking in that
and uh we're in the process of putting our eight millimeter uh films
and now the kids and that were going to put them on video
and we're we're in the process of doing that right now
and
yeah
uh we bought the equipment uh that you do it with
well the you buy this little little piece of equipment
and you use your video camera of course
and uh your [projector] and the combination you the way you you know connect them up
uh i think it's going to we were a little worried there was a lot of background noise on it
but uh we can hook it into our uh stereo system after we get the pictures all done
we can hook it into our uh a or uh stereo system
and uh put music to the film
and that will cut out all the background the noise of the uh recorder running and that because the [projector] made a lot makes a lot of noise
yeah
and uh so that's been kind
and our [darkroom] is we have a [darkroom] but it's very dusty we we're real active in it for a long time
but you know you get busy
and the kids grow up and
yeah
we mainly just did little black and white it's
uh_huh
oh you can really get some good really good pictures in black and white
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
it's hard to even find film or anything
but uh
uh_huh
did she oh that's great
yeah
yeah
i don't do a whole it time seems to be hard to find for anything you want to do
i don't know why
you'd think i'd have a lot of time
but but i i i'm knitting an afghan for the baby
and i haven't
worked on this for several weeks
i just haven't got back to it
the twenty ninth
i don't know
they don't really care what they have
yeah
they didn't want to know
so uh
but but i do enjoy it
i i i enjoy painting some too
but i i really have trouble finding time i did did some toll painting for a while
and i
started doing a still life
and it's it never got finished
well had
have you watched any of these things on t v these
large brush uh_huh
well once you start it
apparently it's not bad
some of the girls have gone into the call age group
university is just not too far from here
and they've gone in and uh done a class on the large brush and actually do the painting and you know they've never done anything
and they come out pretty nice
yeah
i like to cook
yeah
i don't
do a lot of fancy cooking
well it depends on what it is uh you know
well now we i we have a small garden
and i can i do canning and uh uh yeah
that's too bad
was it lower back
or
uh_huh
yeah
that's one thing that our gardening we're getting it
my husband he's retired
but he's having trouble now
and he's not not allowed to mow the grass
we have a lot of grass takes me about four hours
to do our lawn
and uh and you know he's really shouldn't run the roots
or
and things like that
so it makes it a little bit difficult
but i i do love to garden my kids loved it
because i never allowed anybody in my garden that didn't like to do it
i didn't want anybody in my garden
i was a [grump] yeah
mostly vegetables
i had grew some flowers mostly vegetables
yes
well i hope you have a nice birthday today
for your son
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
okay
you too
and thanks a lot
hobbies do you have
uh
do you do antiques oh
oh my
uh
do you do all this in your house
oh
uh_huh
oh
boy that's an ambitious project
had you ever done any [refinishing] before
oh
so the neighbor was able to give you guidance
yeah
and she was right
yes
well uh i do a lot of needlework
and i also do puzzles for magazines i get paid for this i've written two puzzle books
uh_huh
and so in my free time
even though it's not a hobby
and that i do get paid for it
i'm always developing new puzzles and activities and and word games mind [benders] that type of thing
no
they're they're variety type puzzles not [crosswords] just all different kinds find the hidden word
and um you know [anagram] type puzzles [acrostic] [cryptograms] uh mostly for children
but some of them go up through grade twelve
so
and i've developed a lot of my own type of puzzles like word snakes and [grid] graphs and things like that
so that's what published so if i have free time i'm usually sitting down with uh [graph] paper doing some puzzles i'm a writer for a living
i writer other things i'm a free lance writer
and uh i was a teacher for fourteen years
and i'm not teaching because we've had to move around so much
no
i i live in texas now
but i'm from southern ohio originally
and uh we've lived in michigan
and it seems like wherever i go i need to take forty hours of college in order to update my teaching credentials so i decided i didn't want that to be my hobby any more
after paying thousands and then moving the next year
so um now i'm i'm just writing at home
yeah
oh
what does she edit oh
right
a b a
oh
uh_huh
that's right
i knew some people going up there
oh well that's
oh great
no
i don't think so
so does she take in manuscripts like fiction to edit because i'm in a large writers group here in dallas called dallas area romance authors do you live in the dallas area
oh you're from new york
well there's a large group there too
it's a national thing romance writers of america
and they're always looking for free lance editors okay
i can send her some information about it because i know they mail manuscripts and for a well i think it's three chapters and a synopsis which would be around sixty pages the average price is around a hundred and fifty dollars for an editorial service
so okay i'll write this down
oh good
yeah
okay
let me take down the information
and i'll send her who to who to send her credentials to
okay
hello
hi
yes
hi
i'm fine
i think they said hobbies didn't they
yeah
plano
are you
that's about as far away as i've gotten so far
i had a lady two blocks away
last time
oh see that would be fun
yeah
okay
uh_huh
yeah
it does
well i used to sew a lot when my girls were really little
and i made a lot of their things
but like yourself
i find i run out of patience with it too
and i like to do craft things you know i was uh make those fabric covered photo albums and i teach a class uh_huh
and i teach that at the parks and rec department a couple times a year
how to do it
uh_huh
and i do that
and i do a lot of interior decorating and i can [upholster] the walls and things like that
so that's about my hobby
and i don't have time for a whole lot
but uh it used to be you did those things to relax you
but now i don't think there is time to relax so so there is not very much time for that
but uh
uh_huh
i do uh_huh
right
yes
see i did too
right
yeah
it is hard
but it does save money to do things that way
and uh i found that i got pretty good at decorating so that kind of is real helpful but you do have to find the time
so
not really
i just really started to do that
i just redecorated my bedroom this past year
and then i went on to my daughter's room they turned out really nice
i just bought sheets
and i made the curtains and i upholstered the walls and in her room
i even upholstered her furniture the drawers
and it really turned out nice
so you can do a lot for a pretty little amount of money that way
so my latest thing is those [stiffy] bow baskets
the baskets with the [stiffy] bows have you seen those
uh they're they just have uh like pieces of fabric and they put it in uh fabric [stiffener] and let it dry and then bend it and put it on baskets it's really attractive
and i i haven't done one
but i bought the things i need
and uh my daughter's mom
uh
it's just to sit around the house like for sewing and magazines and whatever you want
[potpourri] depends on the size you buy
and uh friend of mine does them
and they're just really pretty
and she's supposed to show me exactly how to do it one day when i show her how to do an album so i don't know what day that will be
but that's our next project
probably after christmas
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh-oh
um
got to be careful
yeah
so you're a [woodworker] uh
what do you know about timber framing
what do you know about timber framing
right
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
the reason i asked is because we're [embarking] on a little adventure here in that we're going to use uh some timber framing techniques to build a a [truss] for a home
and it's a it's a you know what a [mansard] roof is
like a barn yeah
and they're [mansard] [trusses] that don't have any internal [bracing] so the whole area is like a cathedral up there for the second floor
right
uh_huh
yeah
that's done some where they're actually create a a single piece that is the [truss] but uh what i want to do is i want to make four identical components and uh cut the joints so that the the more pressure you put on it
the stronger it gets
and it involves [interleaving] and uh using uh you know locking [wedges] yeah
similar to that
yeah
well if i do that
and then cover it with uh two by six tongue and [groove] it will be pretty sturdy because we have to we we got what we call santa [ana] wind down here
it comes up out of mexico at about a hundred miles an hour
we're at a the at the northwest of denton texas
right
on the red river
well then you know about that wind
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
we we bought this land out here
we're going we're going to retire on it
maybe in twenty five thirty years from now
but you know we're we're still fairly young
uh_huh
well we're only going to have a porch on north and south end
and uh we'll have uh anderson window walls is what they are
so the whole wall just opens up
it will be all glass
because on the piece of property
we have
it's the second highest pointed in the county
and we can see oklahoma to the north the lights of gainesville to the east and the lights of wichita falls to the west
and that's a
it's it's we're just right on the southern rim of the red river valley
you know where [nocona] is
[nocona] okay
that's about as far north as we can see just you know right on the other side of the river there
and boy
it's really nice
it's about an hour drive to work though
we don't have any traffic
i used to live in uh [springfield] well actually [chicopee] falls
that's unbelievable
yeah
it will be a lot of fun
we're digging the foundation by hand
yeah
the first [floor's] going to be underground of course it will be open on the south and north end
and east and well see we have a little [knoll] on our property
about thirty feet tall
and it's almost straight up
so we'll [nestle] the house right up next to it
right
cooling we don't have to worry about heat
i mean
yeah
but they're very short
well the temperature tuesday was ninety six it was tough
today was cold in the seventies
yeah
it went from thirty eight to ninety six on tuesday
that's a pretty good temperature swing
yeah
well if you don't like the weather in texas
just wait a minute
well you have a good day
um basically i my preference is arab coins and ancient coins uh_huh
oh very interesting
um over the years of course by my grandparents used to give me silver dollars
so i've got a few of those
tucked away
but um your greek and roman coins you know if if they're um in good condition might be worth something you might want to drag them out and
uh_huh
that would be the greek ones
okay
because i think most the roman ones have
right
right
so this
uh_huh
um it the
are they silver or bronze oh interesting
did did somebody go over to the middle east where they could have picked up some fakes pretty easily
oh
uh_huh
gee
that's
you might be sitting on a gold mine
right
um i don't know a lot about um greek and roman although i'm a member of an organization
and that is the the primary interest of some ancient uh [numismatic] society club
and so most of the people collect roman with a few collecting greek so every now and then we have a program
so i've picked up a bit
but um if it if they're really soft and very early they could be uh i think they call them [lydian] coins and um
right
i don't you know i i guess they say that a lot of people in the in the middle east particularly can pick up fakes you know if you go to um uh a fight
and then the people say oh look what i just dug out of the ground and they sell you something they made last night
but um i think that's fairly recent phenomena probably
now now they're supposed to
they're supposed to be licensed and the um [aboveboard]
oh i see
oh
and you made your own
was the gold worth
i mean was it really gold right
oh really
is that uh still true
wow
uh_huh
oh i suppose
he he has to protect himself too
so that somebody can't say you know when he's selling them that somebody else made it
i mean it's so that he gets his own profits huh
oh i see
otherwise the the buyer is uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
right
oh that's interesting because i'm more interested in the research and i'm going some dye link [analyses] of of these early coins from the six and seven hundreds
and and so i'm not into that the buying and selling business
um
it sounds like i'm wise
oh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
i think that's that's the the hardest thing is that people who don't really know feel sometimes a for example i know um you know the [ancients] better
but because it's old they figure it's got to cost you know thousands of dollars
uh_huh
oh
right
right
oh really
i didn't know that
oh that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
so basically if if someone isn't really interested in the coins it's not some an investment
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
uh_huh
right well what's your favorite shows
uh_huh
huh
that's one of my favorite
yeah
mystery
and uh masterpiece theater
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
i don't not anymore
i don't
there's just nothing on it
i got i got sort of hooked on that uh dark [shadows] yeah
i when i watched it originally i didn't know it was a i don't know
it was going to be a series
i thought it was just a movie
and so i started watching it
and all of a sudden stay tuned next week
and i went what
and then it blows into this whole series thing
so i sort of had to stay with it
not really
it it it's it's gotten to the point
it's getting ridiculous now
and they they just had the uh season finale
and i don't i don't know what they accomplished
but i think the writers just figure well let's just do anything
and we'll we'll have a couple of months to come up with some new ideas
yeah
yeah
yeah
i don't like programs that i can figure it out
um the only one that i watch religiously is l a law
i really like that
yeah
that's that's my favorite
well i'm i'm a struggling law student
and i
the reason i like it is because they give you good law in there
yeah
it's not like these other programs where they just make up anything they want
and they they throw little tidbits out that are really good
uh_huh
of course i mean it's got its bad side
so it's limited by the format
obviously you don't get into court as quickly as they seem to make it out that you do
i mean they're they're in california
and they're they're waiting list is about four years four or five years for a civil case
so uh i mean you know it's very difficult to
yeah
it would yeah
no
not at all
you know the wheels of justice grind slowly yeah
i'll agree with you there
i'll agree with you
i know i know the [shortcomings] too
oh well not in that that's not on my
that's not on my list of
now there was some of the some of the classes
i'm in i think i'm in sesame street
but uh some of the professors i think imitate big bird
that's it
i mean big bird would make a good judge better than some of the judges i've seen
yeah
i've got my own pet peeve about judges but uh-oh
well we're stuck with them
sort of like lawyers you know
um let's see what else is
oh i like a and e
they don't have a
and e on cable in dallas
oh
oh
oh
yeah
i'll tell you
the um uh a
and e and discovery and c n n
i couldn't i couldn't live without those
oh yeah
i i just leave it when i'm home during the day
i just leave it on just to listen to it
yeah
the best coverage
yeah
uh the networks got sort of ridiculous
with they they they felt like they had to interrupt normal programming for all this
but they didn't have anything to say
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
well the coverage was a little bit ridiculous anyway
i mean it it it got far more coverage than it should have i
it was it was beautifully played out thing i mean it it [roused] the [patriotism] of the of the country and all that sort of stuff
and
yeah
exactly
i mean
and sometimes they they would now i like jeopardy and jeopardy comes on
here at seven o'clock
and for
i don't know it much have been two or three weeks there they were doing this expanded nightly news
you know
and i'm going i will never get to see jeopardy again
yeah
i'm saying what are you telling me that you didn't tell me in your first half hour
nothing
yeah
oh well there goes a patriot missile oh well that's good
that's good
yeah
oh boy
golly gee
yeah
we are
yeah
well it was it was no
i mean there there was nothing to it i mean i mean yeah
i'm happy
for that
i'm happy for that
but but unfortunately i sort of had the inside track
because i'd been in the i'd been in the military for thirteen years
and i worked in intelligence
and and there was no
yes
another one of those military intelligence ha ha that's what that's just like justice for all
but i mean my goodness
there's they're sitting here making all this big deal out of the iranians
and i'm sitting there thinking to myself uh_huh
sure
i mean they've poured billions of dollars into this stuff
but the stupid people can't read comic strips i mean
how do you expect them to operate tanks yeah
i mean they can't even read their own language
yeah
a
it just totally ridiculous
i mean the israeli's could have fixed the whole problem years ago
if they just sent sent their guys in there and killed saddam that's right
i mean the israeli's they're not afraid of anything
see what happens when they when they take a plane load of their citizens down in
that doesn't uh that doesn't that situation doesn't sit around and develop very long
all right
i i i think everybody's jumping to conclusions i don't think anything's going to change
no
first off
i don't think that the middle eastern situation's going to change
i don't think that
they're not yeah
they're not going to come up with a peace plan or any of this kind of crap
uh_huh
yeah
well they they they get
[oshmid] [aukomo] you know the janitor for the u s [embassy] and you know
yeah
really
and it was it was it was even worse here in north carolina
because because a lot of the matter of fact all the units the marines and and uh the f the f sixteen squadrons came out of north carolina
so every night on the local news they were down in fayetteville
or they were down in [goldsboro] and they were talking to the military wives you know
and and i and i understand the way they feel about their husbands and wives being over there
and all that
but to get on camera and just oh this is so terrible
i just i don't what we're going to do
i'm thinking to myself you know
what do they people think they were getting into when they joined the military you know i'm going it
what did you think it was a paycheck
you know run around and then play soldier
well the [reservists] sure do
we had a [reservist] here in north carolina who who who's unit was ordered up and he refused to go
i hope he got busted
yeah
the this this guy did too
he ended up going to leavenworth which is good
i'm glad huh_uh
that's right
and then she didn't want to do her obligation yeah
well i uh you know i'm not i'm not racist or anything
but one of my one another one of my pet peeves is they had a lot of black
on the news talking about how unfair it is because the blacks are poor and therefore they don't have a choice
but go in the military
so there's more of them getting killed than the whites now to me that doesn't make any damn sense yeah
what kind of hobbies do you find yourself involved with
uh
yes
i i uh woodworking
um very little actually uh
no um
oh no
they they they uh they they suggested a variety of possibilities and whatever
hobbies
you can come up with
uh no
uh my hobbies kind of vary from time to time depending on what kind of time i've got uh i spent twenty years as an auto mechanic
and i i enjoy working with with cars uh
i've built a couple of race cars
uh yeah
um i i do enjoy uh uh cabinet [cabinetry] type woodworking
um uh i've done some model building
and different things like that
um right now my hobbies pretty much tend to be on hold uh a twelve week old baby
and full time student
hobbies are a extreme luxury
you you say you uh sing with a group in a community college
what sort of music do you work with
uh_huh
uh_huh
yes
sounds like a lot of fun
yeah
those are usually the best sorts
uh
you you say show music like broadway musical type show music
okay
um
those are wonderful shows
oh yeah
yeah
yeah
well the chances are these are all all things they're very familiar with
and just the chance to have some entertainment and some some variety in their life
uh uh retirement homes
i mean even still there are a variety there are a lot of retirement homes that try to make it sound like it's a real you know luxury condominium setup and still
the bulk of the people living there tend to be living pretty restricted lives
so something like that can be a lot of fun
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
here goes sharon  
well what do you think about nolan ryan being the first baseball player to earn a million dollars  
that's the only thing i found out tonight  
yeah  
yeah  
well isn't it funny how baseball's getting less than like football players would  
wonder because football  
and a lot more games right  
uh_huh  
beats me  
i mean i know yankees have won a lot games   through the years  
we have been talking about this  
i tried to call earlier  
and we had made a list of all these uh baseball teams and the cities that they were from  
then i started cleaning  
and i don't even know where i even put that paper  
yeah  
i was just cleaning and throwing  
well have you ever played baseball  
well that's what i did when i was growing up  
that was fun  
uh_huh  
do you ever go see the rangers  
yeah  
i think it's fun  
i like just looking at the [billboards]  
yeah  
it's nice at night  
that's when i've been  
well  
no  
and your going to be able to buy your  
what was no wait about the liquor  
oh yeah  
so you  
well they're trying  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh well that's the way to do it  
you hear that  
that's my kids turning on their music  
holly turn it down  
i think it's the bart man the simpsons  
i wish i could  
well where are you  
okay  
i'm in garland  
yeah  
my my husband teaches in plano  
c v a e  
i teach  
but i teach for dallas  
for right now  
i'm trying to get out  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i mean it's good because they they try new things you know  
but it's like they'll try something  
and then they throw it out and get something else you know  
and you get tired of that  
yeah  
well but they can't be though  
they don't have as much money  
most of the time  
oh man in dallas you don't even know who's in in administration  
there's so many of them  
i mean somebody walks in the a classroom  
and you don't know what they're there for you know when they're coming how long they're going to be  
you know it's just there they are  
and they're writing the whole time  
no  
i had them walk out of my class and not say their name anything  
and i finally just got to where i go okay i'm [debbie] moore you know may i ask who you are and what you are in my classroom for you know  
because you know you never know where they are going what they'll report  
or  
and they'll tell you they've written something down  
and you hope they're telling you the truth  
no  
huh_uh  
oh it is  
uh this is my eleventh year  
no  
actually it's  
now my job's good   much better than a lot   because i'm chapter one  
and all i do is teach reading all day long  
and it's just ten children at a time  
no  
it's good  
and you've got a lot of federal money too  
teaching  
oh yes  
yes  
when i first started teaching i remember i went to my  
and i said okay i want to see a curriculum guide you know  
so i'll know what i'm suppose to teach  
and they go we don't have one  
we don't even know where one is  
and so i go okay i mean you just you did what you wanted to do  
and now they tell you what to teach and how long and you know what day   what period  
yeah  
no  
i know which is worse  
uh_huh  
well you can talk for ten minutes  
but you don't have to  
yeah  
and no  
if you talk to ten then they come on and say oh you've extended your limit  
and please say good bye within the next five seconds  
well you know i hadn't either till last night i was talking to this retired administrator from cleveland ohio  
and we started talking about gangs you know  
yeah  
and everybody else that i've talked to has been right around here  
but she was real interesting  
and then tonight this woman called  
have you taken any incoming calls  
okay  
so hers was the first one i got gotten  
and uh and she was telling me all her problems you know  
and it went over ten minutes  
well yeah  
we did  
but the topic was boring i thought  
what would you serve uh if you were having a dinner party  
oh yeah  
i could go on and on about that  
ugh neat  
no  
the last one i saw was dances of the with the wolves wolves  
oh i enjoyed it  
i mean it was just more for my money  
huh  
uh_huh  
one is eight  
and one is eleven  
they usually pick their own  
you know they've got it all figured out  
well and ninja turtles  
but most of the time really we watch them on the video  
don't you  
just massive rental  
going to  
i know  
that's what we do especially when it's bad weather man just   plug it in  
i know  
it's good when you go to tom thumb though  
and they're cheap  
and nobody has got them yet  
unbelievable  
uh_huh  
do you read  
no  
see i do that to make myself go to sleep at night  
you saw field of dreams right a long time ago  
well i was reading the book  
and it's called shoeless joe  
it was so wonderful  
and then i was um i decided well i like this author  
so i got a uh book of his short stories  
and that's been real good  
don't don't ask me  
the ghost of shoeless joe was the name of the book  
yes  
quite a quite a bit  
but you know in the movie the guy was black  
he wasn't in the book  
that's one difference  
there really wasn't a lot of difference  
well do you think we covered baseball  
okay  
well have a good night  
okay  
oh you found that out tonight  
i haven't even heard that  
that's great  
i think he deserves every penny of it  
but there are some others out there that i don't believe deserve the money they're getting  
oh yeah  
and they play a lot they play a lot longer season too  
yeah  
that's exactly right  
but i think let's see  
the teams that were there last year were see somebody from california  
i don't even know who won the pennant last year  
yeah  
not lately though  
uh_huh  
threw it away  
oh gosh  
let's see  
the teams that  
i think the a's were in it last year  
the oakland a's and i think it was i don't think it was an all california baseball  
i played softball  
yeah  
yeah  
that's fun  
that's a whole different sport  
yeah  
let's see  
but i think i think the rangers need to go  
and i think the pirates will go  
and uh let's see  
rangers have got a new guy this year  
i don't even remember his name either  
every once in a while i i like to go on the nights when there's not anybody out there not very many people out there  
it's a lot more fun when your not fighting a crowd  
yeah  

sometimes when i if you go out there during the day you just fry under the sun  
yeah  
it is  
and do you know anything about that new stadium  
have you seen all those pictures that they're going to put out there  
yeah  
that that huge  
it's suppose to be a huge stadium  
and it's going to have little shopping centers in it and little like a lake or something running through it  
and uh they're going to try to make it a real community center out there  

that's that's in uh texas stadium where the football players   play  
and they're never going to let liquor in there  
i know  
but they try every year  
and every year they get thrown out  
it's so stupid because they let you take it in there  
but they don't they don't allow you to sell it don't allow them to sell it there  
but uh that new [stadium's] going to be real nice  
and i heard that there's uh that you can bid on that stadium  
last night on the news i heard that they said you could you could bid on the stadium to have it named after you  
so  
and it's going to go to the highest [bidder]  
yeah  
so that could be your you know fifteen minutes of fame  
oh  
oh god i stay away from them  
i bet you do  
in plano  
oh you are  
oh what's he teach  
uh_huh  
so what do you do  
oh you do  
is that a tough system to be in  
real hard  
yeah  
i would think it  
yeah  
that's typical bureaucracy though  
that's that's i think it's going to be any where you go  
it's just worse in the bigger cities than it is in the smaller ones  
i don't know  
sometimes the smaller ones are just as bad  
yeah  
but the politics the politics gets worse in the small towns sometimes  
you don't even know who to payoff huh  
yeah  
oh how funny  
no communication whatsoever  
yeah  
i know  
and you never see it  
that's got to be frustrating  
how long you taught taught in dallas schools  
ugh that's about uh ten too many  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh  
oh well that's not bad  
but hasn't it changed a lot over the years  
yeah  
or working in the system  
oh god  
how funny  
yeah  
you don't know which is   you don't know which is worse  
yeah  
i guess so  
yeah  
being told what to do is worse  
so how long are we suppose to talk for  
oh you can  
oh i haven't ever talked that long  
uh_huh  
he lives in cleveland  
wow  
yeah  
huh  
yours is my second one  
did she did she did you all not talk about the topic at all  
oh  
oh gosh all the other  
the one i talked about the other night was good  
it was um about movies you know what have you seen at the movies lately and stuff like that  
me too because we go all the time  
the guy i was talking to never goes  
he was boy it sounds like your really up on this  
i said i see at least two a week  
so that was real good to talk about that  
have you seen like uh silence of the lambs  
you've got to go see that  
yeah  
we talked about that one too  
and he he said he didn't think it should have gotten all those awards he thought it was too long  
but i  
i did too  
yeah  
i didn't think it was too long at all  
uh he said after about the first hour he started looking at his watch  
the other one you need to go see is sleeping with the enemy  
and how old are your kids  
you probably don't want to take them to see silence of the lambs  
it's it's not it's not too cool for kids  
i bet they do  
yeah  
they want to see all the horror movies  
yeah  
ninja turtles got to have those  
oh yeah  
you  
that's  
well heck that's a lot cheaper then uh   taking them out to the show  
especially if you get them for a couple of nights you don't have to watch them all in one one time  
yeah  
of course you have to get there early if you want to get anything   decent  
that's true  
that's true  
we saw um [heroes] have always been cowboys tonight  
it was okay  
it was kind of slow  
and i felt like it kind of got chopped off at the end you know  
it just it  
i don't know  
it one of those movies it's not going to be around long  
it will be a dollar movie in no time  
not very much  
no  
i don't have the patience to read  
yeah  
oh my mom and dad read all the time  
yeah  
sure did  
oh really  
who is the is the author  
oh  
shoeless joe  
was it like the movie  
okay  
right  
huh  
i didn't  
see i never even heard that there was a book tied in with that movie  
that's interesting  
that was a good movie too  
i think so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
oh no  
no  
they're not are they  
oh goodness  
i would too  
even the bench warmer i would  
uh_huh  
uh yeah  
well i do to uh  
i have boys you know like eight and eleven  
and we go quite often   to watch the rangers  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
we're heavy into that too  
oh i do too  
and i think uh what caught so many of our [attentions] last year was that nolan ryan you know  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i know it  
yeah  
yeah  
he really is an you know  
as far as predictions and stuff i really think the rangers may come out real strong this year  
they because  
i don't know  
but last year i just figured they was under a lot of pressure because of all the publicity and everything  
i really do  
yeah  
yeah  
at least   that should help  
it sure should  
but in a way i really do  
and of course there's a few more you know i think are good ball teams also  
like oakland a's and the giants  
i really do  
i like to go watch the giants when they come to houston some times  
but uh  
oh you haven't  
oh i have a few times  
uh they're a good ball team  
they really are  
oh wouldn't it wouldn't it though  
wouldn't it  
oh my goodness  
we might actually get to go to a world series huh  
oh yeah  
that's something you dream about  
oh there sure is  
and uh that i mean they really are  
uh now [incavalia] i don't know how familiar you are with him  
but last year i was kind of thinking he sure did get in a slump  
but they're saying this year their predictions is that he's really going to come out of it and   be on top  
isn't he though  
he sure is  
he either hits home run or strike out  
there is not ever a in between for him  
uh_huh  
yeah  
to sign him again  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
oh you never know  
that's sure  
if you offer them money i'm sure they'll   they'll do a little bit of everything  
no  
no  
no like that joe [hosago] you know  
i mean oh  
i hadn't heard  
i i really haven't uh  
oh yeah  
well i hadn't either  
we hadn't you know  
like i said we  
i don't even guess they've even thought about sending the schedules out yet  
yeah  
because we usually get one  
we usually order our tickets way in advance  
we we try to go so often  
oh they do  
well i've enjoyed talking to you  
and we'll hopefully we'll get to talk again  
okay  
bye bye  
real problem the last few days one of their uh young hopeless stars has apparently ruined his knee for this season  
it was a catcher  
and they really don't have an excess of [catchers]  
and it's really kind of kind of late to you know to start be trying to trade for somebody especially with the salary cap that the rangers have  
they're not the highest paying ball team around  
but i you know i would i would gladly take the salary of most of the guys i'll tell you  
yeah  
that's right  
i really haven't been an active ranger fan in several years  
i used to go take my son you know  
when he was in high school he enjoyed going to baseball games  
i'll have to admit i kind i kind of went more to see to see the other team a lot of times than i did the did the rangers  
but i think they're doing better  
yeah  
i can imagine  
i used to love to play baseball when i was a kid  
i think it's more fun to play than it is to watch  
yeah  
oh of course  
of course  
as a matter of fact i read in the sports page this morning  
he just pitched his first uh exhibition game a day or so ago  
and he pitched five uh yeah five full innings  
that was almost unheard of for a pitcher to you know to start out that strong  
no big deal you know  
it's just part of a days work  
he's something else  
he really is  
they could do very well  
they sure could  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
they've got uh i guess all  
well all their players are signed now  
some of them are not too happy about it  
but there there's no hold outs  
so that should help  
yeah  
it should uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
cincinnati  
yeah  
there sure are  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
i've never seen the astros play  
huh_uh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
they sure are  
wouldn't it be something to have a world series between the rangers and the astros  
boy  
i tell you that would draw a crowd wouldn't it  
it sure would  
that's right  
wouldn't that be something  
it sure would  
absolutely  
but there are a lot of ranger fans around  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
boy  
he's a bull isn't he  
he really is gosh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
it's kind of like babe [ruth]  
yeah  
they were saying something about this may be his last year with the rangers though  
apparently i think his contract is up after the end of this year  
and they're not sure they're going to be able to sign him again  
yeah  
that you know may or may not happen  
that's right  
it's a long way away  
that's right  
that's right  
unfortunately the rangers don't spread it around quite as big as some of the other teams do  
yeah  
that's right  
is there going to be a ticket increase this year price do you know  
i haven't either  
the uh those cowboys have increased their prices again this year  
but i didn't know  
i i don't think i've heard anything on the rangers  
or i don't remember it if i have  
yeah  
yeah  
i guess it's too early  
uh_huh  
it's a good idea  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
if you have young young children you know they they get a kick out of it  
uh_huh  
well you too lori  
right  
you take care  
okay  
bye bye  
well i kind of like them all  
i played for about eighteen years all the way through college and then uh kind of hung them up after college  
but  
no  
not quite  
made it  
yeah  
made it all the way through four years of college playing ball  
but   anyway uh being in rochester you probably like the mets  
oh boy it i think it's like one or the other isn't it i mean  
yeah  
oh okay  
i see  
yeah  
i like the uh  
huh i guess if i had to pick a favorite team any more as well as  
i kind of grew up rooting for philadelphia  
i'm from new jersey originally  
yeah  
well we were thirty miles south of them  
so   yeah  
right down the river  
but uh so what are the mets going to do this year without strawberry  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i was going to talk to you about that eighty six team  
that was that was the year they beat houston in extra innings  
right  
yeah  
hey the guy's making millions  
he ought to be able to perform  
right  
well his knees were bothering him  
yeah  
yeah  
for having him out there  
sure  
oh boy  
yeah  
i think we were all pretty much uh astros fans in the national league championship series  
but there's like two fellows from uh brooklyn  
and they they were you know they were pretty much without having to say they were pretty much mets fans  
no  
not really  
they were pretty much thugs  
they weren't scared very much you know  
yeah  
really  
okay  
okay  
well i'm not to say that all folks from brooklyn are thugs  
but  
these two were definitely thugs  
and they were from brooklyn  
so i'm kind of hoping  
i i i guess uh any more  
i pretty much pull for the rangers though  
they're uh they're they're they they have i think they have the best facilities in the major leagues  
i love going to watch a game in arlington stadium  
it's great  
yeah  
the only problem is it's not large enough  
it only holds about  
i think they when ryan struck out his five [thousandth] player they squeezed about forty thousand people in there  
yeah  
so they're they they have plans  
i mean the owner tried to move them to florida  
but uh they ended up sticking around in arlington  
and they're going to build a new stadium in arlington as a matter of fact not even in dallas  
so that's that's something that we're looking forward to  
oh case in point toronto  
yeah  
have you seen a game up there  
oh boy i saw it i was up there on business uh last june and watched a game in the sky dome  
it was just phenomenal  
that's that's probably the pattern for the future of stadiums i think  
uh_huh  
now is rochester  
where where is cornell university  
[ithaca]  
okay  
yeah  
well rochester is like right on the [shores] isn't it  
yeah  
okay  
oh  
well they say that from that space needle up in toronto you can see the lights of rochester on a clear night  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
those games are fun to watch  
you you you watch those games  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
we used to like watching  
my my folks lived down in [beaumont]  
and uh on the campus of [lamar] university they used to house the [beaumont] golden [gators] who were a double a team for the [padres] i think  
but uh they they were fun games to watch  

well there's definitely a lot more hitting  
yeah  
yeah  
so as far as the major league teams i don't know the rangers have been  
you know every year they always knock on the door early and then just go into their skid about you know the end of june  
but they they've got so much young raw talent  
it's just amazing  
and then they just haven't been able to put anything together  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
i mean they've been they've been young for a while  
and they're almost starting to age a little bit here  
i just um  
yeah  
yeah  
they they really hurting pitching wise  
i mean they've got ryan  
but you know who knows what he'll be able to do  
he's been  
last year he started having some [nagging] injuries  
and   but it'll it'll be interesting to watch  
i hope to get up there  
we we usually try to get to opening day game  
there's several guys from our church try to go up there  
yeah  
well i i guess we're probably oh maybe a hundred fifty miles south of dallas  
no  
not too bad  
but it takes about two hours two and a half hours to get there  
that's probably because of the roads  
you just don't have  
we we've just got a freeway  
we just get right on the freeway and just go north  
well it's so crowded up there  
golly  
yeah  
um   well yeah  
you're you're like a boat ride from  
how far is it across the lake to canada  
toronto  
yeah  
do do you drive there  
or do you take the ferry or what  
yeah  
yeah  
it's a it's a beautiful city  
uh_huh  
so and then i mean you go back to new york after school  
oh really  
well what kind of weather are you having right now  
oh boy  
yeah  
we've been up in the oh seventies eighties even up in the nineties a couple of weeks ago  
golly  
because of the ice  
um  
golly  
huh illegal  
oh yeah  
okay  
um so um do you have any favorite teams  
oh i was going to say you played pro ball  
right  
not quite huh  
oh  
yes  
i'm actually a met  
i'm i'm one of these people who's actually a die hard mets fan   and an avid yankee [hater]  
yeah  
it's it's  
i i i find it very strange  
um more people  
you know real met fans don't like the yankees  
and real yankee fans don't like the mets for some reason  
i never i never quite found a new york fan  
i always found a fan you know of either one or the other  
and so that of course means that when it comes to the american league my favorite team is the red sox   by [default] because i went to college also in boston  
oh  
yeah  
so that so that's sort of close enough  
oh so you were pretty close  
well i don't know um there's there's a part of me that says that you know um i'm sort of glad strawberry went away  
you know when when he sort of went away i started thinking yeah well he was performing fairly well  
but he really wasn't worth the baggage you know  
um i think they're okay  
i think they're  
you know i think they have enough people who are who are who are still in their prime you know  
um i mean certainly if you look at them compared to let's say you know um eight years ago or something they're   they're they're they're you know they're sort of in in good standing whereas you know um i think i certainly don't think they're the eighty six team any more  
yeah  
i  
right  
they beat houston in extra innings  
and then they actually won the series bye bye sort of a [sneaky] route um against boston   when there was the ball that was sort of hit to [buckner]  
i felt real bad about that  
but hey what can you do  
that's right  
well actually he he he was supposedly um  
there was there was something wrong with him at the time  
and i  
right  
and i and i understand that  
and i say hey if the guy can't play you don't blame that  
uh hit it to him  
you blame the team you know for putting him in  
that's right  
so  
so i i i was uh i was also i was in school at boston at the time  
so i  
it was actually wonderful because where i was they were half met fans and um half sox fans  
oh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i guess they were uh i guess they must have been scared after the uh  
well that's good  
well they're brooklyn boys i guess  
you don't expect them to be uh much of anything but thugs  
i know i was born there um  
yeah  
i i was i was also born in brooklyn  
so i can call myself a brooklyn [thug] although i'm really not  
yeah  
well that that's  
actually i think i make something because i think  
and and and in as much as sort of fan support helps  
you know it's good to have um  
yes  
it is kind of small  
right  
oh that's great  
so  
yeah  
that'll be nice  
i mean that that i think tends to keep  
i think stadiums work tend to keep people happy  
yeah  
exactly  
uh i haven't been to any toronto games yet  
but um  
of stadiums yeah  
well i i mean to get up there  
i mean the the best i've been up here so far you know up in up state new york   is uh is um rochester red wings game  
oh cornell is in [ithaca]  
uh yeah  
so cornell is about um somewhere uh about two and a half hours south of south and east of us  
so if you know where lake ontario is sort of  
yeah  
we're about ten miles south of lake ontario  
actually whoever built the city was an idiot in my opinion   because they built it they built it far enough from the city that it actually couldn't be a port city  
um but they  
oh really i i hadn't actually known that  
well um but we have our own um our own triple a team here  
the [redwings] which are   they're a farm team for the orioles  
so everybody hopes that uh they go all the way around here  
there's the  
they're the big team in rochester  
oh yeah  
i  
actually we we we make a point of going to a bunch of them every year because they're fun  
lots of really big  
you know lots of local fans you know small stadium you know um  
and they'll get a crowd of less than ten thousand sometimes you know  
um especially  
you know i'll make a day game or something  
but they really seem to uh  
people really get into it  
i mean i can't i i again i can't make any predictions about them  
but i suspect they'll go uh they'll go fly   yeah  
those are those are uh i think those are more fun than major league games sometimes  
yes  
it's true  
one of the advantages of not having pitchers who are  
uh uh you know i guess i guess when you start pitching real well well move them up bam  
yeah  
but um  
well the way i the way i see it is  
i mean um you know i can use a met analogy here  
if you'll think back a few years to when the mets were just all this sort of young bunch of guys who really were raw talent but weren't very sort of well trained  
you know back to you know maybe eighty eighty four or eighty three   or eighty five you know when they were first when they weren't quite the eighty six team that that that they were  
i i  
that probably gives the readers a good shot for you this year or next year i think if i think the young talent really just has to build itself up  
right  
but  
oh that must be nice  
well that isn't too bad just a couple of hours  
yeah  
well it takes me a good seven hours to get to [shay] stadium  
so i don't know  
yeah  
well actually we can we can i can take a highway the whole way down  
but it's still it's some   it's it's almost four hundred  
i mean i mean it's almost four hundred  
you know barring traffic it's four hundred hours  
i mean four hundred  
four hundred hours  
right  
four hundred miles   barring traffic  
so it's um it's it's you know it's a heck of a drive  
we are [substantially] north of new york enough that uh   we don't get to go play   too often  
toronto  
oh [toronto's] only about two hours  
yeah  
toronto i mean i want to go see  
um i can  
i've actually i've driven  
but i've heard about the ferry as well  
haven't taken it yet though  
have you taken it  
yeah  
um i i really love  
i think that's one of the most uh enjoyable things about being up here  
i'm only up here for school  
uh no  
probably south maybe texas  
some place south and warm  
i don't  
i'm not a big uh i'm not a big uh cold fan  
uh right now we're actually having uh  
it's getting nice  
i mean it was in the high fifties today  
but three and a half weeks ago we had an ice storm  
oh that's great  
you know about that same time branches were falling off everywhere  
and we were actually in a state of emergency for two weeks  
because it didn't make the national news too much which i find really weird  
but um we were i mean um  
you know all schools were closed for almost for over for a week  
there were certain parts of town where it was illegal to drive  
yeah  
because they had so many power lines down  
and so many uh things like that  
so they were  
all right  
well i have a lot of different teams that i like to to keep in touch with  
of course texas rangers being one of them  
i mean uh you know you can't live in dallas without you know  
well uh i originally came from saint louis  
so uh the saint louis cardinals are one uh  
i moved to kansas city  
see i have i have a tendency to a adopt teams when i go to a uh go to a town  
yeah  
so uh i lived in kansas city for a couple years  
and i adopted the royals  
i lived in houston for two and a half years  
so i adopted the uh uh the houston astros  
so i mean you know i've got quite a few  
no  
i don't i don't get into that too much  
every once in a while i will keep in in touch with maybe like who's in the top five of hitting or something like that  
but i don't get into you know how many errors somebody has or things like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i've heard of that one  
well i didn't know that  
that's supposed to be a real good statistic uh  
well that's true  
they don't have the offense to uh to get out or to have the the more runs  
so  
uh_huh  
huh  
which i was kind of leaning toward anyway to tell you the truth  
i kind of think it was necessary  
i mean i i don't i'm not a a big um pure power hitter anyway  
i mean i don't like these guys that get up there and swing for the downs every time  
i mean uh i think that uh that a player ought to hit a home run if he's got the pitch to do it  
but when you get two strikes on you you have a you know you should you know shorten your swing a little bit you know  
if it's a perfect shot go for it  
but i mean you know the strike outs were a big problem for him  
and uh plus supposedly what i heard he was not much of a team player anyway  
so  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that's true  
right  
yeah  
well there's there's another point to that too  
they said the that um that he was horrible at uh at batting with with men on base  
now having somebody get up and hit a solo home run does you you know gives you run obviously  
but i mean if you can't do it with men on base there's something definitely wrong um you know  
you you've got to be able to get the two and three run home runs you know to to be able to uh score enough runs to be able to win in these uh in this day and age  
so  
i think the royals will do okay  
they have they have several pitchers that had badly years last year  
and they are they're these uh cycle pitchers  
they they pitch one year bad one year good one beer bad one year good  
[saberhagen] has won uh supposedly the cy  
i think he won cy year uh two out of three years  
and uh you know so he's very much due for a good year  
well now see that's a good question  
i that's i don't know how [oakland's] going to react to being uh swept in the world series last year  
they could very easily uh take that as a challenge which is the way most teams you know naturally do   uh and and just go out and not give anybody a chance to beat them  
so  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
baseball is there is there life up there like football is down here i think  
i lived in the suburbs of saint louis  
yeah  
yeah  
that's true too  
i think that's all that they have  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
oh yeah  
i i definitely do  
in fact i've got family that still lives up there  
um from what i hear from everybody up there they're not going to have a good year because they let too many people go  
but i've been following spring training  
and they're like one of the best teams in spring training so far  
that well it can be  
it it really kind of depends on on um what they were you know what they were looking for  
in other words if if in spring training they were looking at all their kids like a lot of them do um then it really doesn't give you any indication  
but if they were uh playing the people that they're going to play then that might be pretty good indication  
so you know it's it's not a great indication because there have been teams that have just you know come out and just won all kinds of games in spring training and then gone on a you know fourteen game losing streak in the first of the season  
so  
exactly  
yeah  
you can't  
right  
i think the best thing that you can do is go with um the players that are that have the talent to do the best years and um that they hadn't had these uh gigantic uh career years yet and   and just kind of assume that you know one of them is going to break through eventually  
so and i i think they said the reds um  
this last year i'm not sure that they said that they had that many people having career years  
you know and and so they may be even better this year  
uh that's a good question  
i  
the rangers have a have a pitching problem  
and whether or not they can fix that or not is going to be an interesting question  
they're doing the right thing though uh  
they are going with their farm system  
they're letting their farm system uh build up and stuff like that  
and  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
um that's probably true  
well considering what i've seen in the last uh you know two seasons i'm beginning to agree with that  
yeah  
but i mean you don't have to spend the big money as far as i'm concerned to uh to win  
you just have to spend it if it's necessary  
in other words if you've got a player on your team who's helping your team then keep him there  
don't let him go away  
and i think that's really what's been hurting uh the uh rangers  
oh yeah  
they they spent more money   last year than any other team in the in the league  
and they were you know toward the bottom of the league  
uh so it's like i said spending money doesn't guarantee you uh winning a pennant  
it really doesn't  
so  
uh you got me  
i you know i think that there's coming to a point real soon when ticket prices are going to be to the point where the average fan can't go  
and once you do that you lose everything  
i mean  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
that that's the whole point  
there are so many games in in a year that they've got to have repeat customers  
they can't afford not to  
and you know that's one of the things that i think saint louis has done um  
i mean  
their you know their ticket prices are you know i guess as high as anybody else's  
but what somehow or another they attract uh so many people from  
i mean they're a it's a small market  
and yet they attract as many if not more than most uh uh most other cities  
so  
well what are the others  
well it's helpful  
well do you keep up with the statistical stuff  
well there's there's a guy on that was on show that i listen to going to work in the morning   who does uh uh  
it's essentially trivial statistics  
but they've got a  
it's a statistic that has to do with winning and losing one run games  
and apparently the rangers last year won a lot of one run games  
well it it it is  
but it's the it's it's a reverse indicator  
well what the what the argument is  
and it it it it's one of these statistical  
gee how can you draw a conclusion from it  
but they find that there's a connection between that and how they do in spring training the following year  
and uh it's strangely enough it's almost like the law of averages catches you on the following year  
which means that if you have a good year winning one one run games that the following year you'll have a bad year  
and they they've got um they've looked at i think twenty three teams uh  
and and the uh statistics are something like twenty one out of twenty three  
it was  
which means the rangers are going to have a terrible year  
i uh  
well i mean and it's uh uh  
i don't know  
what do you what do you think of [incaviglia's] loss  
well it it's an interesting concept though when you look at uh of of how baseball how apparently  
i was reading in the paper tonight that the detroit [tigers] are going to sign him  
and uh and the point of of i guess  
i don't understand the the strategy of how baseball works  
but it seems that you know they can sign him tomorrow  
and he could go in the team the next day  
and and and they put him in the lineup  
and he hits a home run  
and all of a sudden he becomes a hero  
and and all he has to do is hit the ball  
i mean you're not  
and all he has to do is one you know hit it once  
it doesn't  
he can he can he can swing a couple times  
if he [fouls] it up he can swing as much as he can  
it's an interesting uh an interesting concept of of how they do it  
but i agree with you  
i think that i think that's part of what uh baseball needs more of  
i uh i i guess what bothers me is is that when you go um you wait and wait and wait  
and finally a guy gets up there and [blasts] a home run  
and that's all the game is  
i'd rather see the ball hit around and have the people  
yes  
yeah  
well how do you think the royals are going to do  
well are they going to beat are they going to beat oakland  
yeah  
well i go to saint louis from time to time  
and i watch i i watch their sports up there  
and they're   uh they're certainly intense about the cardinals they  
did you actually live in saint louis  
everybody does right  
i had a friend from college that lives in uh  
it's well i should say on the west side  
i mean everything's on the west side  
[manchester]  
uh out that way  
and i went and visited him  
but anyway it is interesting  
well how are the cardinals  
do you still keep up with them or  
well is that a good indicator  
you know what i think is remarkable is uh  
it seems that what you really need to do to win though is to have a team that has reasonable talent and has some people that have have have real breakthrough years  
and and the question is how do you forecast that  
if you had to if you had to bet on who would be in the world series i mean it would be really tough  
yeah  
yeah  
well well when are the rangers going to come through  
well is there enough money  
that's part of it  
i uh  
that was part of skip [bayless'] argument  
i don't know if you read skip [bayless] but   a a local commentary  
and   his argument is that uh the ownership is not inclined to lose big money long enough to to bring in the big dollars  
would you would you agree with that  
uh  
yeah  
well didn't kansas city put up quite a bit of money for their   pitching staff  
yeah  
well and that i think that's maybe part of it that that the um  
and it you know  
if i owned the team i think you'd like them to do well  
but the question of losing big big money that what did did did [steinbrenner] actually make money on the  
well it's it it yeah it's a little bit like any other sport you know  
when it starts costing you fifty or a hundred dollars to go to a game  
and uh you know i mean i i guess as we get older you're probably going  
if if you if you compare to go to a a sport a a  
say you go to a rock concert   or or even a performance a an opera or the symphony or something uh  
if you know  
but how how often do you do that  
an  
i i i would i would think baseball probably feeds on a number of people that can go out there you know several times a  
yeah  
yeah  
but don't you think there's a there there are older fans there  
i i don't mean older um you know  
the fact that that it's it's a better established and that the the city is is is more of a  
okay um  
what baseball team are you familiar with  
really  
oh now come on  
no texas rangers  
really  
i guess they [paired] two women together on this call for a reason which is something we can think about later  
but um i understand a little bit about the texas rangers  
i know george bush threw out the first pitch hitter bounced off the ground  
and that um  
yeah  
i heard a joke on the radio yesterday that in regard that he didn't design the patriot missile system  
and uh the [radio's] kind of cruel  
i mean think the he this chain that must have been on president bush to bounce the first pitch off the ground  
i mean how humiliating for a man to do that any man  
i don't care if you're president  
i know  
but he's a man  
come on  
men know how to do that right  
i know so  
i felt kind of sorry for him  
that must have been hard on him because he's just a person  
but um i never  
a major owner of our of the team here  
yeah  
he's like i thought he was the owner  
but it turns out my mom said that he's part owner  
but he must own the biggest chunk  
because that's all you hear about is if you know about neal bush i think is his name  
see i even know his name because he's on the news a lot  
and i never had to watch the news not you know not like some people hour and a half a day or anything  
uh_huh  
oh i saw that  
yeah  
i want to see your driver's  
i i   i don't  
you're not president bush  
i know  
and he said  
yeah  
it does so fast  
i heard it on the radio  
i heard the audio portion on the radio in the car  
but i didn't see it  
but  
that's about my extent of um about baseball  
i don't know   that much about it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
did they  
uh_huh  
that's so stupid that you all have two teams  
that's really stupid  
yeah  
i know  
yeah  
the texas rangers they they lost i think  
but i know that last year  
we did go to a baseball game last year  
we got free tickets because someone at our church one of the [deacons] at church um parks cars at the mansion at turtle creek which is like one of the uh the places and stuff  
and he's their head chauffeur  
is this funny as they're parking the cars the [valet] service  
yeah  
he makes good money too doing that  
you'd be i was shocked  
but anyway someone gave an iranian a tip of four rangers tickets last year  
and then the iranian couldn't  
he didn't want them  
so he gave them to alan  
and alan and his dad had plans that night  
so they gave them to us  
so he decided that some wealthy man tipped this iranian   with baseball tickets  
and we ended up with them right  
and so we were   walking up  
and i looked at my husband  
and i said you know what kyle this is the mansion at turtle creek a tip  
i bet these are really good seats  
and so we ended up on first base right down there on the floor  
oh yeah  
we they called us at five  
and the game started at seven  
so we just threw everything together ran over and got the tickets and walked  
and so we took two kids with us  
and nobody brings two children in these seats you know because  
yeah  
and you just sit down  
and all the girls were all dressed up you know  
i just was there you know  
like i'm loaded  
i'm here you know  
and uh it was just kind of funny  
because you know but we got to sit by first base  
if they did hit a ball i would have been afraid it would have knocked my face in you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
really  
i'm glad my husband's not like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's funny  
you miss the whole thing  
that's funny  
where is he from in france  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i have a i had a friend in college from [strasbourg]  
uh_huh  
paris  
and my cousin lives in paris  
and she's lived there for like oh off and on for twenty years  
uh_huh  
saint claude is that sound familiar  
yeah  
oh really  
uh_huh  
that's neat  
yeah  
she married  
and they have twelve children  
she has twelve children  
she looks gorgeous  
no  
she's gorgeous  
and she just liked having kids  
and she's thin  
and i mean   four or more children are thin  
i mean i'm not kidding you  
no  
your  
i have a friend now that has seven  
and um and they're all eight and under   and nine and under  
they're all real young  
they're just raised right  
that's what god's told them to do  
but they're not condemning you  
if you  
we only have one child you know  
they don't say they don't put on bad or anything which is good because it would be easy i'm sure for them to do that  
you get a conviction like that  
and you think everyone should have it  
and so i'm real proud of them because they're aren't really they don't do that at all  
you go in their bathroom  
and there's ten tooth brushes in there  
and i always give her a hard time who's [toothbrush] did you really use this morning  
uh_huh  
they live lean for one thing  
and they [tithe]  
and they  
it puts a whole in your money bag  
we don't honor god with this portion  
and so they  
i think that helps a lot  
i think that's the key in he like his sales last year  
he just works a normal job  
he probably has an income of thirty five thousand  
but last year he made  
that got him a bonus of twenty five thousand which allowed him to pay cash for a full size van  
he loves god  
i mean it was the biggest thing that any one in this company had ever done  
and he got to do it  
and so god just really [blesses] him in ways like that  
do trust god because i don't know kids are a blessing  
and and some people you know we think of [blessings] as nice furniture and things like that  
but kids are just as much of a blessing inside these material things  
but it's a different kind  
and a lot times people think oh well i'm not blessed  
i have an old car  
but you've got five kids you know  
you're just as blessed probably more because if you follow this  
there's a good book called what the bible has to say about child training   by richard [fugate]  
and he's you know  
a lot of wisdom in it  
and the kids at bible talk about anything  
but training and training is different than anything else  
in in psychology doesn't address it  
a lot of the psychology stuff the good stuff that's in psychology it just comes out of the bible  
and they don't quote you the [proverb] out of it  
but the things that work in psychology other the years that they've proven to work they just come out of the bible  
and so this book it just really all these things and how to train the child  
so they're not going to be a curse to you when they're thirteen  
what i mean how to train them so they're going to be a blessing  
and so you know they do that  
and they they just live lean pretty much  
they don't she doesn't shop at foley's you know and stuff like that  
but a lot women die or shop at foley's  
so things  
it's like a [macy's]   kind of store  
it's pretty nice  
and everything's pretty expensive  
and you know you just can't do that  
and you don't go to baseball games as much  
or you get pictures like we did  
you know what i mean  
you do these fun things you know in other kinds of ways  
and i know [manhattan's] real expensive  
but um it's kind of a different situation because you're probably living in an apartment right  
yeah  
well church softball leagues  
so  
they're not all boys  
and right now we don't have a girls' league because i'm the one that's supposed to start one  
and i just haven't gotten around to doing it  
i keep saying we need to have one  
they go okay then start one  
but everybody wants to do it  
but you know god's sitting on my heart  
and i just hadn't gotten around to doing it  
but anyway so they could really only have four members on the team  
i think they only have four boys  
i don't even think they have but two old enough to play yet  
but um then you didn't believe me about her kids  
are the they are so good  
i'm not kidding you  
but she does work with them  
and it's a commitment  
and that that's what they're called to do  
i have a  
most of my friends  
i know  
i do too  
i most of my friends have three or four kids  
and they feel like you know that's really why god  
and some of the people in our church use birth control  
and some of them don't  
i had my tubes tied  
so you  
well i'm only a little bit familiar with the red sox because i lived up in boston for a while  
and um and that's  
after that if you asked me that i wouldn't have been able to tell you if that was football or baseball  
yeah  
but at the same time i don't know it's pretty far to throw that far  
i couldn't do it  
right  
he's supposed to be able to do that  
oh really  
i didn't know that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
and i've been watching uh  
my husband's french  
and so if i've been watching the french news   when i watch it  
it's incentive  
speaking of bush we're going to get a little off topic but speaking of bush they that had a story where he went to visit some little uh elementary school students and stuff  
did you see that where he the guy asked him for proof of who he was  
he said his  
i know  
and see a credit card  
it was so funny to see  
it was a really cute little kid too  
well i can tell you   that the mets opened i think two days ago  
because my brother was supposed to go to the opening game  
and i couldn't tell you who pitched  
but they won  
the mets won  
but yeah  
not my a lot  
and then somebody else lost  
maybe it was the other new york team which is the yankees  
but i don't even know if they're still new york yankees   or new jersey  
yeah  
well but it  
then they can have them play against each other  
i think it's still the new york yankees you know  
i thought they were moving to new jersey  
this is how much i know about baseball  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
with baseball tickets  
yeah  
wow  
because they're fancy seats and stuff  
i know i'm always scared of that whenever i go to a game  
i rarely go  
but we went last year  
because my brother my brother is impossible   when um he does football leagues and baseball leagues and all kinds of stuff  
and if there's a game on he's watching it  
i mean that's all there is to it  
and he's like glued at the t v  
oh i'm glad my husband's not like that either  
i'd kill him  
my brother's like that  
and um see he goes to a lot of games  
not a real lot  
but he tries to go  
then my father got us some tickets  
so my brother's wife and my husband and i went  
last year we wanted to show my husband what a baseball game was because   you know being a non american you want to see what a baseball game is like  
and he describes it as you sit there in a crowd  
it was nice weather and stuff  
it wasn't a real problem  
but you sit there in a crowd  
and you're waiting and waiting and waiting  
and you eat these lousy the hot dogs um  
because we made him try a hot dog you know  
and um so you sit there  
and you wait for the longest time really bored  
and then all of a sudden something happens  
but you happen to look the other way during the time  
yeah  
and so you're basically you sit there and wait for something exciting to happen  
and when it happened he missed it   and didn't understand it  
and it   um he grew up out well he grew up in   which is the sort of o strip east to west eastern part  
but that  
yeah  
he's not that far  
he was sort of in between [strasbourg]   and paris  
oh is she still there  
because  
yeah  
saint claude  
yeah  
we used to  
that's one of the um [entrances] to the [periphery] to get in and out of the city  
and it it it it sits right at the limit  
i exactly where she is  
but um we met in paris  
twelve children  
oh my god the poor woman  
were any of them twins  
you probably can't afford to eat if you have more than two of them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
but how do they afford to even have the kids uh  
we're expecting our first baby   almost any day  
and   uh_huh  
wow  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i i don't know what foley's is  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well that makes a really big difference  
but   but still it's just as hard as having that  
but your cousin could have a baseball team with twelve kids  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i admire someone that can do that you know  
i really can  
right  
oh  
how way back i mean  
okay  
so wally moon moon shots and all that  
yeah  
[coliseum] wally moon and all that  
okay  
yeah  
it's a um  
i i'm living in just west of baltimore and frederick um which is also just west of baltimore has a minor league team  
and uh and wally moon is the manager of them  
yeah  
so he's still kicking around  
oh i saw them  
um um i was out there last summer  
and i saw a game at [ned] [skelton]  
is that the stadium  
oh okay  
so um there used to be a uh race track  
yeah  
it was  
that was impression i got when i was there  
so  
okay  
yeah  
so had a lot of fun  
actually i mean i like minor league baseball a lot  
it's cheaper for one thing  
yes  
i think they're in for a odd year this year  
actually um they um  
i don't understand why [encovilla] got released  
i mean he you know he can't field  
and you know he strikes out a lot  
but i mean he's done that for five years  
why get rid of him now  
oh yes  
okay  
oh okay  
oh he fits right in with texas bunch of guys i mean with detroit bunch of guys that hit home runs and strike out a lot  
yeah  
well i mean with detroit i mean they can get away with one guy like that  
i mean if i if i were in detroit i would start building the team around fielder  
but that doesn't mean get three other guys who hit all they can do is hit home runs and strike out   you know which they did  
so  
i think the [pitching's] deep enough that it doesn't matter  
i i like them a lot  
i think they're going to go all the way  
um and and i mean by saying i like them i like their chances  
i i actually don't like the dodgers  
i'm a giants fan   from way back  
no  
but butler didn't hurt either  
uh and bobby [ojeda] didn't hurt  
and  
bobby [ojeda]  
they got him from the mets for [hubie] brooks  
um he's a a pretty decent pitcher  
he's  
okay  
you know he  
and uh that guy the short stop is going to be good  
um  
yeah  
i'm looking  
i've already been to one game  
and i should have been to two  
but  
um the the team i live and die with actually is the red sox mostly die  
but um i go to the orioles since they're here  
and i you know i do enjoy them  
um i've had an opening day on monday  
how far is houston  
oh okay  
keep forgetting how big states are out there sometimes  
yeah  
i um  
you know we're we're pretty lucky because if i want to see a national league team i can usually go up to philadelphia  
and um saw saw the cardinals and cubs last year and a bunch of teams the year before  
okay  
uh yeah  
um i try to see whatever i can  
i mean i've been to like thirty or forty games each of the last few years  
yeah  
hope i'm going to do it this year because um uh having a kid this fall  
so it's like   so much for going to lots of baseball games  
yeah  
seriously  
yeah  
good talking with you  
and and you'll be happy i think in october when the dodgers win  
yeah  
i'll be i'll be upset probably even though my [prediction] will be right  
and good talking with you  
take care  
bye  
there we go  
well actually i'm a i'm a dodgers fan from way back  
um  
like um late fifties early sixties  
what's that  
yeah  
is that right  
that's interesting  
yeah  
i i also lived eight years in ohio before going to uh going away to college  
and i used to go watch the toledo [mudhens]  
uh i couldn't tell you for sure  
it's been a long time  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think that's right  
well that's true  
i think i've kind of become a rangers fan over the last eleven years since i've been here  
uh they've led the american league in batting fielding and pitching  
but they've never been able to do more than one of those in any any given year  
so  
i don't either  
i mean the guy's twenty twenty five home [rums] maybe thirty eighty some r b i s  
really i mean he really has become a a very decent fielder  
he's not a the liability that he was that he used to be  
um  
yeah  
of course get a guy like [cecil] fielder you know  
if he strikes out a lot so what  
oh yeah  
right  
yep  
well i think the key for for l a this year is whether [oral] [herschiser] can come back  
it may be  
right  
right  
well picking up [darrell] strawberry didn't hurt  
uh who's the last one  
oh okay  
yes he is  
yes  
yeah  
well it should be an interesting year  
are you an orioles fan  
yeah  
yeah  
you know i kind of wish that they had inter league play like they do in all the other sports so i could see some of the national league teams here once in a while  
uh three hundred miles  
yeah  
it is it's incredible  
there you go  
boy you are a baseball fan aren't you  
interesting  
wow  
all right  
so so do it while you can  
sure  
well it's been good talking with you  
i wouldn't mind it  
yeah  
well god bless  
and good talking with you  
bye bye  
okay  
i hope you know more about the subject of baseball  
and where they're going than i do  
well i  
of all the sports that there are that there is i like baseball the best  
however i haven't been to a baseball game in years  
but i have kept uh my eye on the rangers  
you know  
and i guess they were doing pretty good up to a point  
and then they kind of fell on their face  
correct  
right  
they've got a one man show going there   which is interesting you know  
um   i guess he can i guess he can really call down a salary  
they're so astronomical i can't even imagine   that kind of money  
you know it's just uh phenomenal  
well good  
i understand  
i understand  
okay  
uh you are involved with t i uh speech um recognition  
how did you find out about it  
oh okay  
i see  
interesting  
oh great  
i see  
uh_huh  
well that's good  
well that's interesting  
and the topics are interesting uh  
they run a whole gamut of of uh subjects  
and uh i think we can address every topic  
but the depth of knowledge is quite different  
so uh when they chose baseball  
i mean i'm i'm i can understand baseball you know  
i don't understand football  
um you know uh it's such a rugged game that it uh uh it seems to be too physical for my uh interest   uh_huh  
well i i can relate to baseball because i used to play baseball  
but i can't relate to football because i've never   played football and and don't and have any interest  
and i said if i ever had a son he would not play football  
and uh i had four daughters  
so that wasn't a question  
but now i have a grandson that you know is gung ho for uh football  
and uh that doesn't please grandma too much   i'm always because the injuries are uh can be very very devastating  
i understand that  
but i think the they happen more in football  
i think the odds are cut down  
you know i i know they can get hurt in baseball too  
the bat is a very heavy object can do a lot of damage  
but uh i think that they have a a lower racial of injuries   ratio of injuries in baseball  
because  
yeah  
a love for them  
uh_huh  
i see  
uh_huh  
did you did you sustain any permanent uh injury with that  
oh  
oh okay  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh boy  
uh_huh  
well i have uh i have a broken arm that i had since i was three  
it was never set right  
and uh uh i liked bowling as a as a kind of a relaxing sport  
and uh one of the men that was in our on our league uh noticed uh you know uh my broken arm and the way my ball would do  
and he says let me show you how to use your arm to your advantage  
and so he brought me up from like a hundred and fifteen i had my high game of two eighty seven  
so uh yeah  
um it was really funny you know that he would tell me where to stand and how to hold my arm and and how to uh follow through with my uh  
addressing that to put the ball  
the uh pins  
so that was interesting  
so i really um i got a lot of uh recognition from the uh uh the bowling league i guess  
i'm not sure where all my pins came from  
but it's  
but that was quite awhile ago  
but i and i never pursued it  
and a lot of people said well you should have turned pro  
and i thought no  
not  

i don't  
my love wasn't there for the game  
i liked to as a as a method of uh entertainment and i uh   fellowship  
but outside of that no  
i didn't  
and i and i still i like to bowl  
but uh i don't have uh jack standing behind me to tell me what to do  
no  
i'm not  
no  
no uh  
at t i they have a sponsor a junior league achievement  
and uh it's true bowling  
and i've never uh shared that with them  
i would have to brush up on my bowling before i even tried to uh win a lot of money for the junior achievement   uh organization  
but that's the only thing that i would you know be to do  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
still carries a good uh average  
oh i know a little bit about it  
i'm not a die hard fan  
but i i enjoy the  
i like the boston red sox myself  
uh_huh  
well with uh  
their biggest point of interest has been nolan ryan not the rest of the team lately  
so  
right  
oh it's amazing  
right  
well fortunately the red sox last time i saw the paper earlier this week were in first place and doing quite well  
um i've been really busy at work this past week  
and normally on my way into work i'll pick up a newspaper  
and uh  
so every day i'll have a newspaper at work  
and when i take a break i'll take a look at the newspaper  
but this week i've been so busy i didn't even bother to stop  
but hopefully hopefully next week i'll get back to my normal routine  
well not really  
i um   i work at laboratory  
from uh  
i'm an officer in the air force  
and uh   they have a speech lab across the hall from us  
and uh the speech laboratory does some work with uh t i   at uh not in my office  
but uh in my division they do   quite a bit of speech work  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
oh i prefer to  
i i like  
i never used to really like watching football that much  
but more and more these days i'm i'll like a football game  
but i've always liked baseball  
i i prefer to watch um  
i guess i'm one of the few people that also [prefers] baseball to football  
and i i'd much rather go to a baseball game than to a football game  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
well there's injuries in a lot of sport  
i'd i  
uh_huh  
uh   baseball  
it's true  
i i would say that baseball tends to be one of the less   troublesome sports  
but uh for some people it's just uh uh  
well that  
not so much that  
but uh even in baseball you can  
like when i played baseball when i was growing up i had trouble uh uh just throwing the ball because i very i was always very strong  
and i  
when i was young i could throw harder   than my uh like ligaments and all that should have been allowed to  
and so i was always throwing my arm out and uh   having trouble  
i and i was a catcher  
so i was constantly throwing back to the pitcher and then down to second base and all and that kind of stuff  
so i  
that was always a problem for me was just just the constant throwing  
so  
no  
i did that wrestling  
no  
i'd  
well i i uh always been quite an athlete and doing different things  
and um the other thing was i'd never really let injuries stop me  
but interestingly enough you mentioned football is like  
now i won't play football anymore because of the uh the separated shoulder wrestling  
so um but i stood the stood the injury wrestling  
but it  
as long as i let it heal it never really bothered me  
then playing football this fall   i it was just flag football too i separated it again  
and it seemed to be   like the straw that broke the [camels] back  
so  
uh_huh  
my god  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
are you on you on any leagues now  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
well my grandmother has been bowling for gosh maybe thirty forty years  
i don't know  
a long time  
and she still she's got to be  
well no  
she  
well what's your favorite baseball team rita  
well that isn't a a true false or right or wrong test here  
not a [cubbies] fan huh  
well that's all right  
how do you expect them to do this year  
okay  
well i'll tell you  
i just uh moved down from south dakota in july  
and uh in south dakota the minnesota twins are the closest professional sports team to where i was living  
and so everybody was a twins fan  
and i was kind of uh didn't have much interest in the twins you know  
it was it was kind of pathetic i mean  
we only had two radio stations  
and one of them broadcast every twins game live you know  
and and the other one was country  
so that's right  
there's was twins there or you know   skip williams  
it sure was  
it sure was  
well i   i would like to assume that they're going to do do better this coming year  
i was sure hopeful anyway  
when we moved down uh i was able to go to my first you know baseball game and   thought this is great this is incredible  
so i became a rangers fan  
i didn't really have one in south dakota  
so i adopted the rangers  
or rather they adopted me i guess  
and uh it was just exciting you know  
you can watch baseball on t v  
and they hit the long ball  
and it looks like wow they really hit that ball  
but when you go to the ball park it's really not all that far   you know  
and it's so much more exciting watching a ball come at you  
and  
that's right  
that's right  
the restaurant  
huh  
right  
that's right  
and he's still doing great   still doing excellent  
well didn't he just sign a twelve year contract with the rangers  
management  
right  
that's right  
you know some of the  
like uh [ivan] [rodriguez] wasn't even born when when uh nolan ryan started pitching  
and it's just incredible to think that there's uh there are players who are the sons of ball players that used to play against nolan   or with nolan you know  
and now their sons are  
uh_huh  
i wasn't  
was it nolan against uh  
ryan against ryan huh  
well that is neat  
uh_huh  
right  
well i suppose i'm supposed to say the rangers right  
is that what  
is the million dollar question here  
yeah  
uh uh you know i would like to say the rangers  
but unfortunately they're not  
i was from illinois  
and my favorite team was the white sox  
no  
no  
my family my dad was  
but i turned out to be a white sox fan  
i lived in chicago  
yeah  
they did pretty well  
what did you think of the world series  
uh_huh  
so you didn't really have a lot of choice did you  
or country  
yeah  
oh uh and i was [routing] for the twins myself because uh they a couple of ranger players that i had watched when we first moved here uh went to minnesota  
and we used to tease about my son  
and i used to have a bet going about some of the players that had moved from here to minnesota  
but it was it certainly was an exciting series anyway  
what do you think going to happen to the rangers  
or can we predict  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
oh isn't it though  
you know but oh i i think going to the ball park just really makes it because then you watch it on t v you feel like you're more a part of it too  
well i'm a great sports [enthusiast]  
so i love you know baseball teams  
and they  
in fact on the news tonight nolan ryan was on there  
he was being he was put in the which i never knew existed the restaurant hall of fame  
the restaurant hall of fame [inducted] him tonight  
and   he uh says he's coming back you know uh  
he doesn't know how many years   i mean to pitch  
he'll be at least one more  
and he said he's been saying one more and it's been two and three might be two and three more  
he likes it  
yeah  
that's right  
you know and he said i get a kick out of it you know  
he's he's such a nice man  
yeah  
and he  
you know when he quits at being active he will go into you know   being a managing and yeah you know being a coach i'm sure  
but he's uh he certainly is a good example uh for the kids  
you know you like to have someone like that you could point to say see what a fine man that he is  
that's right  
uh_huh  
oh he's been a legend for so many years you know  
and i don't know  
were you here had you moved here yet when he did the exhibition at u t with his son  
his son pitched for u t  
and he pitched for an exhibition game for the rangers  
yeah  
it was a  
i think it was a little early part of the summer  
and uh   nolan against  
ryan against ryan  
yeah  
his son pitched for u t  
and uh only uh ryan didn't want too much publicity on it because he didn't want his son getting too nervous about this whole thing  
a game is a game you know  
well the rangers really uh knocked the socks off of them which you would expect   you know anyway  
but nolan i think took himself out after a couple of innings or something you know of the game  
so  
uh so my favorite team is about the rangers  
yeah  
i'm telling you  
you think they'll sign ruben  
no  
right  
yeah  
i think it's going to have a big effect if they don't on the other uh hispanic players  
i think   that's going to be the big problem  
right  
yeah  
right  
oh  
right  
i think they just want to stay mediocre and draw their two million fans out there and then be happy with it and not have to pay the bucks to get a contender in here  
but  
right  
right  
yeah  
right  
right  
that's true  
but uh they were talking about trading him if they're not able to sign him and uh use the money that it would take to sign the guy you know to pay for pitchers or you know what it what it what they what else they need  
because they've got the hitting  
but they need the pitching  
um  
oh i know  
yeah  
it's sure aggravating when you go out and bust your butt working you know your day job and you can work your day job the rest of your life and not bring home as much money as they bring home in one game  
it's real aggravating  
but  
that's right  
it's always got  
yeah  
it's always it's always wondered me why i mean they act as though this area is not you know a big metropolitan area  
but you think we'd someday get an owner in here that could afford to buy the the the players we need  
just real aggravating to  
because i've lived here you know since well i was born and raised here  
so i've been a ranger fan since about seventy seven  
so it's a lot of losers  
it's about to get you know   as bad as the cubs or whoever you know  
right  
right  
i'm telling you  
right  
i think this town would go crazy if they ever got a even a playoff team  
i mean   it would be packed  
and they got that new stadium they are building  
so at least at least that will be exciting   when we get that  
but  
uh it's hard to say  
it's going to be depending on where the what they do with ruben sierra  
and uh i mean i'm getting tired of them going into each year saying you know bobby [witt] is the answer and kevin brown   is the answer  
and man that's getting old you know  
these guys have been pampered  
i mean it's time to to either you know put out or shut up  
and  
right  
and valentine and [greave] they're about to get you know they're about to get old  
but i like this sandy johnson  
is it  
i'd have to agree with that  
they are my favorite team too  
a little disappointing the last few years  
you know   i really don't  
i just don't think you know with that guy from pittsburgh getting all that money twenty seven or twenty nine million or whatever it was i just don't think that they're going to be able to sign ruben sierra  
and it's just going to be a shame for you know our area  
oh i do too  
i just  
the main thing  
it's just going to effect on the the team you know  
we just can't seem to you know  
i think we've been in this spot  
i think we finished second once or maybe even twice  
i don't know  
i   i'm i haven't been to a baseball game in a couple of years  
it's just it's just too disappointing  
i just watch them fall every year  
i was a pete incaviglia fan  
and uh   i liked him  
but of course i understand baseball decisions are all just  
decisions like that have to be made by someone  
glad it's not me making them  
they say as long as they draw up two million fans that   [greave] and valentine will be there  
so and that's the name of the game too  
you got to make money   you know pay these players so much money  
now it's just   it's frightening  
you and i should be so lucky to you know to go out and swing a bat and get two thousand dollars every time you swing the bat or something like that  
yeah  
they really do  
i think they uh i think they need them all  
i just don't i understand the big cities like in new york or l a or somewhere because big cities  
and you know a guy a pro athlete can go out there in the afternoon and probably make five thousand dollars just by doing a personal appearance at a   at a men's clothing store or something or sporting goods store  
but i realize the difference  
but i just don't understand  
oh i know  
i tell you  
but one thing i don't understand is why a group you know headed up by george bush would buy the texas rangers and not really get behind them  
because i tell you we need a winner in this town  
it looks like our cowboys are coming back  
but   so that's that's going to be a big help to dallas  
but you know in the past half a dozen years all we've had is the uh   the soccer team  
oh i know  
it's  
oh i know  
i've been one  
yeah  
i've been i've lived here since seventy four  
and i've really been a ranger fan for the longest time  
and excuse me i don't miss a time picking up the morning paper   and checking the box score  
i mean i follow them  
and i follow them like i follow the mavericks and like i follow the cowboys  
but and i want to see them win because you know damn it they the fans deserve it  
i mean it   you know we have pretty uh great fans put two million people in that stadium  
i love nolan ryan  
i guess you probably love him too  
oh i   do too  
it will  
well where do you think they are heading this year  
right  
yeah  
bobby [witt]   gets forced into wins like seventeen games or whatever  
and they have the later ten game winning streak  
and they give him all kinds of money  
and then he just goes right down the tubes  
are you there  
okay  
now tell me your favorite team  
yes  
okay  
i think it's a little bit late in the season for them to assign us  
where do you think they're headed  
so we'll have to talk about the future   with the rangers  
what are your [thinkings] on what they can do what they'll be able to do  
well i heard tonight on the news that he is willing to come down   on his  
yes  
and the rangers go up a little bit  
uh_huh  
i think the entire baseball  
yeah  
they're the ones that probably are paying the highest  
and i think this is absolutely ridiculous  
no  
that's right  
what i saw on the news today that  
buechele was back just to visit  
i'm awful sorry he's not still  
oh i'm sure it was  
pittsburgh  
yeah  
yes sir  
well what do you think of howse who is the coach for the pitchers  
yes  
his assistant  
uh_huh  
i really wish they could see fit to get rid of howse  
no  
no  
i really don't  
and i'm not going to stand up you know on my   [soapbox] and say that  
but i'm   not fond of howse  
and i'm not fond of [grieves]  
yeah  
well i'm just [gullible] enough that i think bobby valentine is um uh doing all right  
and i'm sure  
well  
oh i know  
i know so  
but i would like so much for these rangers to get their act together and give um oh uh nolan ryan the support he needs  
i understand  
well i just oh i have so many mixed emotions about all this  
but i think with their new stadium they should go and let  
uh_huh  
uh baseball  
well i've been kind of been intrigued with the rangers uh more so with uh uh their management than anything else  
i i don't follow baseball that that closely  
but uh you know since i live here so close to arlington uh that's the team that i've been kind of following  
uh_huh  
right  
well i think that uh you know with uh so much controversy over ruben sierra not signing and asking us for so much money it's um you know i think  
i'm not real sure about  
do you know anything about ruben [sierra's] uh  
yeah  
that   he was willing to come down a little bit and   uh if the rangers will go up a little bit   yeah  
but a little bit from three you know from thirty million dollars or thirty five  
that's a lot of money  
yeah  
they are  
uh_huh  
and i really think i really think that uh that they ought to  
i'm not real sure that they should pay him that much money  
i think they should uh uh pay him what his salary is going to be uh and let him  
because he's got one more year before he turns into a free agent  
and then uh who knows  
if he produces next year they may have to end up paying him anyway  
but if he doesn't then his market value will go down  
and they can pick him up for for a lot less than   than they would uh if they paid him the you know the six million dollars a year this year  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
but you know what he  
that was a great deal for him  
yeah  
it was a great deal for him  
and and uh he just signed on uh  
i think it was like a five year deal with uh   pittsburgh  
so you know he's real happy there  
as far as the rangers are concerned i think i think they need some definitely need some pitching  
uh and so i you know i  
the pitching coach  
well you know i was just looking at the news tonight  
and they showed a a a black guy that was was helping out uh   his assistant  
and i think that's a a great addition  
i mean he seemed to know what he was doing  
and and uh  
oh you don't like howse huh  
oh tom grieve  
yeah  
i'm i'm not sure that um that they're ready to get rid of of uh tom grieve yet  
but howse might be a different uh situation  
and i think you're probably right that they that they need some you know some changes in uh pitching coach maybe  
and um  
you do huh  
that's contrary to uh popular belief you know  
oh i know  
you know it's too bad that uh it has to be a forty two year old guy to to lead the uh the rangers you know  
they need to have some some young guys that can take the lead  
and and  
uh   yeah  
okay  
so what do you think of the giants  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
wasn't that something of him  
yeah  
that's really a  
really proud of him though the way he's you know  
yeah  
really you know  
yeah  
i just don't understand why they're not right up there on the top   you know  
yeah  
um i was mostly an a fan you know  
i had been to more games at the a than i have in the giants   because uh i lived in oakland   you know for some time  
but uh i still like the giants though you know  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well i prefer uh football   over baseball  
but uh   yeah  
it's  
so hot dogs baseball and apple pie huh  
yeah  
um  
so what do you think is going to happen this year to the teams  
i know  
yeah  
well the giants are  
yeah  
makes you sick doesn't it  
yes  
he's like a little bitty kid huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well i guess the giants or might move away from san francisco it sounds like  
you know uh they won't be that far away  
but san francisco will be hurting anyhow  
you know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i know isn't that something  
i couldn't believe that huh  
yeah  
i just it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i couldn't believe that you know  
i don't uh  
there was braves in that [chanting] that they had  
that would drive you up a wall  
you know  
yeah  
well you're right  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
oh really  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
no  
uh they give you a list of things that you want  
all right  
uh i like the giants  
they got uh  
i probably didn't get into baseball until maybe maybe three years ago really  
so uh but i i just like the giants  
i don't i don't know why  
i really got into them  
i read uh dave [dreveki's] book   his autobiography  
and  
yeah  
that that was incredible  
the way he handled that entire situation there  
but i just think the giants have a good team  
they they got all you know  
they're they're they're real balanced out  
they got real good pitching  
and they got the hitting to go along with it  
so  
yeah  
they just   they need that i think they just need that one one element to push them over the top you know  
i don't really know what it is  
but but every team that's that's really good seems  
you know like the a had they had they just had it all that one year  
so  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
if you're a fan you got to stay with the team any way you know you   good and the bad  
but it's it's kind of hard  
i still basically the the  
me and all my friends around here since we don't have anywhere  
i mean we can go to the astros or the rangers teams  
but since  
me none of me and my friends are really really like either one of those teams  
so we uh  
about about the most baseball we get is either t v or we play it on nintendo  
we play r b i baseball on nintendo  
so   so that's just you know that's small town trying to make it through the   not being around it really  
but  
yeah  
yeah  
so do i  
but baseball is still  
you got you got to do something when football ain't on  
so  
yeah  
exactly  
this is america  
so  
but  
uh i don't know it's hard to say  
i haven't really really  
you have to just keep up with everything in the season  
it's kind of hard to do  
at least you know   you have to read the paper and sports illustrated and everything to keep up with who they traded and who they picked up and and all that  
but like i say if they can if they can get that one element that they were missing i think the giants can do it  
they just  
i don't  
yeah  
i don't really know about the a s  
i don't like the a uh matter of fact i can't stand the oakland a   just because they have uh you know they've got their jose [canseco] and and all the attitude that goes along with that you know  
they kind of  
yeah  
you hear what you hear what you hear what he did  
he [ramming] his wife's car  
and i was like yeah  
yeah  
he's just a a a little boy with a lot of money  
so  
that's just  
you know but  
yeah  
i've heard i've heard talk about that  
yeah  
they're not going to be happy about it  
but i hope they can do good  
i mean that's just  
i think they're a good team that just need that one one little thing to push them over  
i don't know exactly what it is  
they got  
they're pretty balanced out all the way through  
it just might be the drive you know   more than anything else  
they just they probably just need something to push them   because i that's that's the only thing i can see that's holding them back is the ambition to do it  
or somebody basically  
maybe they just need everybody to tell them they can't do it  
maybe that's what you know that's what some teams need  
look at the twins going from worst to first  
yeah  
my roommate   my [roommate's] a twins fan for forever  
so he had his year this year  
so  
we got we we got into that a whole bunch  
that was a that was a series to remember for sure  
so i saw all seven games of that  
so   that was definitely worth watching  
yeah  
yeah  
they  
every team with the indians been doing that now  
i can't figure out why  
you have to figure out why they're all doing that i'm like it's doesn't work it's obvious it doesn't work because the you know   the braves braves didn't win  
so uh why keep on doing something that didn't work  
but   i don't know  
i was i was kind of surprised that we were going to talk about baseball  
and i get a woman's voice  
i was   i was i was thinking uh_huh  
i talked to a guy named [vinny] last night about fixing your car  
so  
yeah  
i got i called got a call the other night about uh fixing your automobile up  
so  
well baseball's baseball  
it's kind of  
i don't know it's kind of odd they pick  
do you pick the topic or does the computer  
i imagine you can't escape it  
well of course it was fun for you  
to  
oh really  
i was born and raised in uh near miami and uh spent the   last twenty years in dallas   uh where the rangers played  
and uh for the   last uh what year roughly year i've been in san francisco where there are two teams the oakland a and the san francisco giants  
uh but honestly you know i uh i do my duty and watch the sports on uh   the [newscasts]  
but that's about all the exposure i have to sports  
uh_huh  
oh yeah  
sure  
well i guess the uh san francisco giants and the oakland a were like the leading teams a couple of years ago  
well i  
well i don't know  
that's sort of what i gather  
um and uh i don't know  
what is the [prognosis] for uh this year  
good  
i i assume that means good for the minnesota  
yep  
i think a train went by  
i know a train went by  
i don't know what the noise was  
but i think it probably was the the train  
well i don't know  
i i i don't even know uh who has been winning in uh as far as the uh san francisco giants and the oakland a  
but i think they both won their opener  
i uh sort of gathered that in my uh subliminal memory  
huh  
uh_huh  
i guess they are different leagues  
is that right  
the a  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
eighty six  
huh  
well they must play every day then  
i mean eighty six times two   is a hundred sixty  
and that's lord that's uh over five months worth  
even if they play every day that's over five months worth  
no  
that was the super bowl  
i don't feel so bad  
i think you you don't know all that much more than i do about baseball  
i see  
okay  
oh really  
okay  
well i i know uh the super bowl  
actually i'm in  
like i said i'm in minneapolis  
and the big thing up here of course is the twins uh  
no  
it's it's pretty [pervasive]  
it kind of goes into about all aspects of society i think up here  
but uh actually i don't know how much of the world series you caught last year  
but that was a lot of fun  
well to be honest with you i'm not from minneapolis  
in fact i've only been up here a few months  
and i'm going back at the end of next month  
uh orlando florida  
so i'm not exactly a real twins fan from birth or anything  
but  
oh yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
right  
oh okay  
yeah  
i haven't followed it real closely at all uh except like i said last year when the world series rolled around i did i did follow that pretty religiously  
went out into the bars you know   drank a beer watched the game had a a good time that way  
but uh  
is that right  
uh_huh  
uh real good as far as i can tell  
people are pretty excited about it  
well yeah  
sorry about that  
yeah  
uh as far as the twins are concerned it seems to be real good  
uh my roommate went and saw them play on their season opener a couple of nights ago  
and they they won that one seven to one  
so uh that's pretty good i guess  
it looks like they'll be doing pretty well  
are you still there  
okay  
i heard some noise on the line  
didn't know what happened  
oh okay  
all right  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well maybe that has has good [tidings] for their uh for their season coming up  
i've actually got a friend that's living in san francisco right now  
uh he's doing the same thing i'm doing which is basically uh an internship  
we we're both doctoral students  
and he's   doing his with i b m  
and i'm doing mine with honeywell  
but uh i i think he kind of follows the sports  
and i think he's mentioned uh the oakland a a couple of times  
uh   he may have watched them and seemed to think that they were pretty good  
as far as i know  
yeah  
and in the major leagues i guess there is a couple of different divisions  
and then of course there's the [minors]  
uh i don't know  
i i guess i'm one of those people that if i really made a concentrated effort i could really probably get into baseball  
uh but i was talking to my roommate a couple of nights ago right after that game  
and he offered you know to take me to one of the games because apparently he'd bought uh he and four other people from honeywell had bought a seat or a row of seats actually for the home games  
but the thing is there's like eighty six home games per year  
so there's no no way that you can ever use them all  
eighty six  
i was amazed to hear that  
you know that's just the home games  
and i i thought it was a mistake  
but he goes no  
yeah  
well just about  
yeah  
yeah  
and that's you know  
yeah  
that's almost  
that's a lot of baseball  
well you if you if you consider it the season starts  
well it's  
the season started about a week and a half ago  
and it ends with the world series which usually takes place i believe in december or january  
yeah  
i think so  
it did last year didn't it  
or was it november  
maybe it was november i'm thinking about  
i know it was doggone cold up here uh  
well i know for sure it was  
i know it was after september   because that's when i got up here  
and and it was at least two months after i got up here  
yeah  
so it had to be november anyway  
oh now we can talk about that great team
you you think he's worth it
who could be worth that huh
i i think they'd be better off trading him off for two million and a half dollar a year pitchers they can win some
twelve games each
that's true
that's true
i think you're right
i i think that as long as they they keep that uh management team i don't think there is going to be a winner i agree with you
yeah
oh i'd stay for five million bucks a year
they could twist my arm
well i i i don't either
i i think uh you know the whole whole sports have gotten out of control and watch watch a game on t v
they got so many ads to pay for the thing if i can fall asleep during a football game wake up and not have missed a missed a down for crying out
and that's the way baseball's going turn into it is they they have gone up to uh last year ninety seconds between innings
instead of a minute
and they keep [escalating] the salaries as they are
i think they're going to wind up with as much you know advertising as they do uh playing ball and uh it's going to eventually kill the golden [goose] i i think i
oh i i enjoy
i enjoy them both
i i uh [refereed] football for yeah
i think uh amateur you know high school and college is a lot more enjoyable to watch than uh you know football than than the pros
they're just sitting around i last cowboy game
i went to they were sitting around uh between plays so long
uh i don't see how they can break a sweat for heaven sakes you know just waiting on ins and uh it it's too bad
yep
yeah
then they got then they got another
six more commercials
yep
but they won't they they want the money you know
and uh
yeah
they're they're greedy and they you know they all admit it's a business and that's what comes first
and that's probably what the is is a major problem with the rangers they make money
and they don't uh as long as they make money and are respectable they don't make a you know they aren't going to pay the bucks out to be a winner and lose money
and that's apparently what it takes what it what what it's taking right now
tell you what i got i got to keep talking to you
but i think this is my car guy calling on this line
so we're we're we're probably almost done
but hang on just hello
yes
good
uh well that's that's okay hang on a minute andy okay
we'll finish this off
i've been waiting five days for my car
so he can wait a couple seconds here
well uh i guess the thing about the brewers is i think their personnel policies have been a little [misguided] lately uh i think that's their main problem uh they seem to have stuck with the same core of players uh robin [yount] paul [molitor] and jim [gantner] who uh they're real good players
but they seem to just depend on them to produce a pennant
and it it isn't working
except for [papa] ryan anyway
yeah
that's right
he can't win them all for him
yeah
i think uh the thing about the brewers is too their pitching they never have really had real good pitching uh last time they had really good pitching was back in the early eighties when they got to the world series with uh people like [vuckovich] and fingers
yeah
yeah
and of course uh he got them to the series
but then just before the series that year in eighty two
he uh uh threw his elbow out or something shoulder or elbow i can't remember which
and uh they're number two right [hander] in the [bullpen] pete [ladd] who was kind of a [rookie] that year uh had to take his place
and uh i think that's why they lost the series
because in in game two in saint louis
they had a pretty good lead going into late innings
and [ladd] got [rattled] when he didn't get some calls and they ended up losing the game uh old [mustache] fingers would not have done that
i can't remember if he's made it or not yet
he he may not have been i don't know when he retired actually
yeah
but that was
i think eighty two was well eighty one was the year
i think that he won the the uh cy young and the m v p and the fireman of the year award all at the same time i think
but uh but in eighty two
i think he won something some kind of award had a lot of saves anyway
well i'd forgotten that [gossage] was with the rangers the the he was this year
last year
now did they pick him up uh sometime in the middle of the season
or who
yeah
yeah
well he's been quite a [reliever] in his time
yeah
well we'll be looking for them to uh to improve in that area
i guess because at least the uh now that i think about them a little bit
i'm getting sort of back through the football season back into baseball
i realize when you think of the rangers now you got a real good looking young [outfield] there for the most part
and uh quite a few of the [infielders] are uh probably have real good careers still ahead of them
i'm not sure why they got rid of buechele but i guess it worked out for him
okay
yeah
old [inky] went the wrong way though
didn't he
now who did they trade him to
i cleveland
detroit
oh
oh they released him really didn't they
yeah
my goodness
when he was when he was when he could really get into a ball though he was uh had a lot of power
i tell you
he reminds me a lot of [gorman] thomas remember him
center fielder for the brewers there for a while
there is a guy
uh well i don't think his fielding was generally that bad
yeah
right
yeah
he did get better
and i think uh he was one of george [bamburger's] big projects when he took over the uh milwaukee he was the guy that was up and down uh
uh i don't really have a favorite baseball team
but of course the rangers play here
and and they've made a whole team history of trading away players that become all stars later on
so
well uh several pitchers [toby] [harra] and uh doc [meddich] a another pitcher and of course now they've they've [sunk] all their money into nolan ryan
so they have they have ruben sierra
and they have uh uh [julio] franco yeah
and they they traded away um incaviglia to detroit i think
and then he hit more home runs this year than he'd ever hit before
uh no
well they get them from you know puerto rico and mexico
and minor leagues
the baseball baseball has a big minor league system
especially in a a few players come out of college
and then more players um go straight to the [minors]
and that gives them time to see uh pitching at a higher speed you know
yeah
they do
it's it's mostly in the schools the i think the biggest thing here is soccer
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
yeah
uh_huh
no
there's not
[california's] the nearest place
yeah
uh no
just in p e uh it's it's pretty big here in high school
and they've had several players um picked in the draft you know they
they're picked in lower rounds
especially pitchers
uh but mostly they just go on to college because because they need the experience
and the education
so
uh_huh
right
yeah
yeah
i i um i enjoy playing
and it took always took me we'd play you know during the spring semester
always took me about six weeks before i could see the ball
before i could hit the ball
and uh but i enjoy i enjoy uh watching the all star game
and the world series was really good this year
there there were some spectacular catches and a lot of home runs
and they had uh several double plays you know
and uh no
it was uh uh minnesota twins versus the atlanta braves and both the teams were in last place at one point in the season
uh_huh
then they fought their way back up to the top and then of course minnesota won i think in the seventh game and ended up
so it was really exciting
right
and it looked for a while
like atlanta was going to win you know before they went back to minnesota
but it didn't happen
yeah
my favorite team's probably the reds yeah
i'm from cincinnati
yeah
yeah
but uh most national leagues teams i'm pretty familiar with
oh really
yeah
that's what i thought even last year i thought they'd be doing pretty good
yeah
he's pretty exciting to watch
yeah
i think those dodgers you got to look out for with all the the hitting they've got right
they got davis from the reds yeah
and uh they traded away for some pitcher too
yeah
because they dumped [belcher] and they got someone else
i forgot his name though
yeah
it seems like they always get the the high paid guys
and they always seem to end up doing pretty good for a while
well they just signed uh what [bonilla] from pittsburgh
yeah
yeah
no
i keep up on it
yeah
i tell you though he's getting what six million a year or something
yeah
you got to think bonds is worth more than that too
no
he's looking to leave from what i hear
yeah
they signed a couple of their pitchers who are going to be free agents
yeah
yeah
they got [walken] someone else they [resigned] they're not going to give them more than six million a year they can't afford it
yeah
yeah
you got to like the underdog
yeah
pretty much
yeah
up where we are we don't get much baseball news
but uh i try to keep up on it
yeah
reading the little [transactions] column is about all we get
i don't know
they really surprised me
last year
and they dropped off so quick
yeah
too many attitudes
out there
too many attitudes out there
i think
they got a lot of high paid players that could start somewhere else as a backup yeah
or steve [pickett's] yeah
but they were in the world series so many years straight and then they were like third or fourth or something
yeah
the reds did the same thing
players then down into fifth yeah
you figured after all the rose stuff was over
everything would be fine
and it was
but then i don't know what happened last year
yeah
but he always is i mean that's why they got rid of him
he only plays like half a season
yeah
he kept on saying that uh the reds should switch to natural grass just for his knees but uh they never did
but they got that out in l a
that should help him
yeah
third base
yeah
yeah
i can remember going to games there when i was a kid
yeah
because it looks small on the outside
yeah
anytime you try to walk down the the [ushers] are always taking you back
what uh what baseball teams do you follow
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
yeah
uh_huh
oh i guess mainly the the rangers such as they are
they do seem to have a pretty tough division though with oakland and kansas city and white sox all uh
[jammed] in there
oh i get to i don't know quite a few in the summer
uh_huh
yeah
it looked like they're starting off kind of shaky
but they they've gone
i guess over five hundred now
i was hoping that no hitter that he threw would would get them fired up a little bit
but it's hard
hard to tell
uh i was trying to think they were up in a stand at detroit
i don't know if they're playing today or not
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
says a lot for their future
oh i don't really follow them a whole lot
um i i hear about them occasionally i've got a friend whose a a trainer for one of their farm clubs i think so
we hear off and on about them
they've never really done a whole lot
i mean they're up and down kind of like the rangers are most of the time
um it's been probably three or four years since they were
i think they finished second in their division
i don't remember what they ended up last year third or fourth i guess
yeah
they have been off and on uh maybe maybe three or four times since they've been here
uh_huh
well they've been like a lot of teams and the minute they do real badly in the past
they just got got rid of their manager
this is [valentine's] the first manager
they've had in on you know any kind of length of time
and so hopefully he'll eventually put something together
i i can't i don't know uh sometimes i think he is
and sometimes i wonder
uh_huh
yeah
true
i guess i was feeling pretty confident about the team valentine this year until uh he got mad at pete incaviglia and just cut him for because he was upset at him
well i i can understand his point i thought it was kind of [childish] to just cut him instead of trying to trade him because then detroit picks him up and he started out real good for them
and he he's gotten kind of shaky now
and i think they should have at least gotten something for him
yeah
i think so
yeah
yeah
i think i think as long as he produces he and franco they they run kind of hot and cold too
i think franco hit a home run was it last night to win the game
i think they won six to five and i think that was on his he hit a home run at the end
and broke the tie up
um
yeah
that'd be nice
yeah
i think the rangers have the pitching staff they need if they would just produce some offense they might do all right
yeah
you said you were a cincinnati fan has uh all this [brouhaha] over pete rose over the years
caused caused you any [distaste] for them
or
uh_huh
yeah
sure
uh_huh
didn't didn't seem to really hurt the team in fact seemed to kind of fire them up and make them work harder
after he was gone
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
really
sure
i enjoyed talking to you fred you too
well course my favorite team is the texas rangers
so i watch them all the time and who do you watch
the mets this isn't their best season is it
well the rangers are a few games behind minnesota
but if we could win the next oh i guess we'd win have to win most all of them we could still go to to the race to do the
well i watched the two games
the last two nights
oh is that right
pardon
i think they're out six and so they have to still win almost every single game that they have to play to the end now
or else
yeah
yeah
i don't know
minnesota's won a good game
they're they're doing a good job this year
i don't know
they really
but i'm going to watch tonight
because nolan [ryan's] going to pitch
so i always like to watch him pitch
yeah
uh_huh
well uh we just traded buechele and i really liked him
but he's gone now
so i i guess uh sierra
i like to watch him
bat yeah
he's he's really good [franco's] good except that uh he's got injuries right now
his [hamstrings] down in the bottom of his legs he can't run very well
but he usually hits a home run then he just [trots] around the bases it's okay
and uh
yeah
well they've moved him now since he can't move that quickly since it hurts him
they moved him to second base
and they moved [petralli] into that area in that runs now in between the [shortstop] area
and he takes second base
uh sierra
let's see
yeah
[sierra's] into the see middle field or left field
he's not in left field
he must be center field
do you
oh
now what's that
i don't know what that is
oh
oh
oh
yeah
that's right
uh no
not too
not too much
i i guess i just don't watch them that much
uh i like to watch the oakland a's play
they have a lot of good players too
but i haven't watched them for a while
so i don't know how they're doing too
well this season
uh once every so often mostly rangers games come on
because that's our area
but uh every once in a while on a saturday or a sunday they'll put a another league on you know
but it's it just depends how the you know how they fill the time sometimes anyway i uh
we got
what
oh is it
oh
well it's kind of fun
yeah
uh isn't it's a fun thing i think you'll like it it's a it's a new thing to do
and uh anyway we just uh if you get run out of things to say then you say good bye
it was nice talking to you too
and have a good day
uh i guess i've had to return something  
but i'm can't decide  
mostly it's been because i didn't like the color  
or um i'm not sure whether i've had to return that many things uh  
oh are you  
okay  
good  
so we'll talk about that some  
right  
okay  
i'm going to let you kind of lead the pack   because you sound like you're  

let me tell you just a little bit about myself  
i for years i did all that shopping and whatnot  
but for the last four or five years i've had eye problem  
and i've had two [cornea] [transplants]  
shopping is no fun anymore  
i can't see good enough you know  
and uh it's hard to tell what i'm doing  
and it's just  
oh i just thought of something we have to return  
all right  
it it'll come to us  
okay  
are you ready  
laurie all right  
all right uh  
tell me about your computer laurie  
i think that sounds fascinating  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh yes  
uh_huh  
oh lovely  
huh  
oh no  
the computer was supposed to have two  
oh i see  
i see  
in some ways it has more to do with the people who sold it  
they probably didn't know what they were talking about  
right  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh jeez  
huh  
yeah  
it really is  
right  
and and so much time goes past before you finally get any kind of satisfaction  
i think that's the worst part  
i  
now that's an advantage isn't it  
it really is  
i think uh uh there's a lot not to be said for credit  
but that's one thing to be said for credit  
it how   it gets you some muscle where you need it  
and i think that's really important  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
that's right  
no  
yeah  
they will  
that's right  
they will  
they will put the kind of clout on them that you can't really do  
yeah  
we  
hal bought me uh uh small uh well uh uh little jam box kind of thing  
so i'd  
my i have my ninety three year old mother living with us  
and so i she doesn't remember anything  
but to keep her entertained music and some of these things do help  
and i thought well if i had uh a a nice little um tape recorder you know so that i could put some good music on in there for her every once in a while and then also so that i can uh uh copy uh parts off i i do some musicals and things like this and if i can copy sections off that i can use someplace so i figured well this will be good  
well the first uh uh the first time i turned it on uh i was recording  
and the next thing i knew the tape was chewed up in the   thing  
okay  
so after that then you couldn't get a you couldn't get a tape to play at the right speed in that side  
and then on the other side when i when i uh i loaned it to my daughter the other day to take it over to uh to uh [videotaping] they were doing  
and she says it's wrong too because the little thing [pokes] out too far  
and so you can't you can't get it to run the right the right way   either  
so uh  
yeah  
so i i wish i could tell you  
i really don't know which brand it is  
it's  
yeah  
no  
i think this is a i think this is maybe a name brand  
and i suspect that it's probably just a fluke you know  
i have the papers and everything  
and we're going to get just take it back  
but uh  
yeah  
i think just uh just uh one of the major i think it was a you know i don't i think it was uh you know like a highlands or something like this  
do they have highlands up there  
don't they  
well this is is was a regular uh electronics store you know  
so i don't think i don't think there will be too much problem  
but i i guess i'm not sure whether i think things are not made as well  
i think they deliberately sometimes um  
don't you  
what what for instance what are you  
yeah  
that's good  
they're getting a kind of a attitude of   not  
yeah  
well  
yeah  
yeah  
i think that's right  
the fact that  
right  
the fact that they that they have competition with the japanese and whatnot sometimes uh [dwells] on a fact that you know uh  
i've had i've known people who have had toyotas for years that have had almost no repair work to do on them  
well they may cost a little more  
but they don't have to take them to the shop every other day  
yeah  
it does the   it did a good job  
so part of it is that we need to develop more of a of a pride in in uh the kinds of things we do so we make them better  
and it kind of has to start from the top and and go or from the bottom maybe and go clear up  
people  
no  
yeah  
yeah  
attitude is is just get me my dollar so i can go do what i want to do and on  
what i'm doing right  
i think that's too bad  
and it's a shame too because uh when you get right down to it most things there isn't any if you do a good job nobody can pay you enough  
there isn't   any way to get paid enough  
but if you do a good job you feel enough satisfaction  
so whatever you're paid is enough  
uh_huh  
that's right  
i think they [underestimate] how much how much value the satisfaction  
is   yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
no  
it it probably basically goes right back into the home though unfortunately  
starts with the one person that you know  
and so you need to really work hard at helping your kids to understand that there is value just in work for itself without any pay you know  
yeah  
the   the the that the value is in doing it well  
and  
uh_huh  
well i'm having a problem right now with a computer that we've just returned  
so for me it's actually a pretty good topic  
yeah  
well we could talk about that  
and then we could talk a bit about um just quality of products in general   if they're better or worse like if they last longer or something like that  
oh  
i can imagine  
well see i don't  
you can't read labels  
and you can't  
good  
there you go  
okay  
yeah  
right  
well we bought a computer because my husband needed to use it to do some work for a consulting project  
and we called up the company and asked them details on it  
we bought it sort of your not a name brand because the clones are so much cheaper  
and we called up the company that somebody else we knew had dealt with  
and they were very happy with the system  
and they felt they've gotten a good price  
and we went in  
we explained what we needed  
and yes  
we had to go across the george washington bridge to new jersey to get to meet these people  
and so we went there  
we told them about the stuff  
and the guy said uh that the computer would fit our needs  
and we  
these things won't make any sense to you probably  
but he told us there were   we need user positions to put our own equipment in the computer  
and it's called a user boards  
or slots is what it's called  
and he told us there's two sixteen bit slots and two eight bit sorry two four sixteen bit slots and two eight bit slots available for the user  
and we can put full size cards in there  
and so we said great you know  
we'll buy it  
and we put in our order  
and a week later we went back and picked up the computer  
and then we got it home and tried to put our own board in it  
and there's only one slot we could put it in  
and at this point we only have one board  
so it wasn't so bad  
so we used it a bit  
but we tried to figure out whether we could put three in because we really need to be able to put at least three in  
and  
well it has them  
but the problem is that you can't put the type of card that we need to put in it in it   and even though they told us in advance that you could  
they told us there would be no problem because you know   the salesman just doesn't really know  
right  
that's completely it  
the salesman didn't know  
so we went back in  
and we struck an agreement with the people  
who said change the [casing] it comes in so that we could put in extra boards  
okay  
so they did that  
and we said are you sure this will work  
we don't want you to go through the work and then find out that this doesn't really work anyway and et cetera  
and they're they were doing it at their own costs  
and so we said fine  
and we went back  
and we talked to the person a second time and things like that  
and then we come we get the computer home  
my husband goes to pick it up last week  
and we couldn't go get it sooner because i just had the baby  
and   you know life's just a little bit complicated  
and uh he goes and gets it brings it home  
first of all they're missing components of it like [cables] so you can't really test it out  
and then second thing we still can't put the boards in   because they have other things [blocking] where we need to do it  
and see now we're dealing with having to bring it back again  
and they say they can you know do something different and change some [connectors]  
and we hope so  
but it's a hassle  
you you know it's just this problem with sales people just not knowing what goes on  
right  
so well actually some things are pretty good with that because i put it on a gold credit card  
and i just called the credit card company and explained to them the situation  
and they said well you don't have to pay for it yet  
yes  
yeah  
right  
so and so you know  
well because these guys if they um give us a hard time we're going to say you look you know  
if if you can't fix this to our satisfaction   we're just returning the computer  
and if we do that  
i just tell the credit card company don't pay the charge   even though they've already paid it  
but they'll just you know   undo the credit that they did to them  
yeah  
right  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh no  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what brand is it  
do you know  
but i was wondering like you know  
in our case where we knew we were buying a copy  
we weren't buying   on i b m p c  
and i was wondering if you  
uh_huh  
do you buy it at some major store  
highlands  
chain down there that i don't know up here  
nope  
uh_huh  
i think a lot of things are not made as well  
um oh  
of course it's hard to think of an exact example  
but i think that um   i  
yeah  
i just have well i like electronic stuff   you know  
for one thing i know their work you know  
cars i think are not made   as well as they could be  
um  
because i  
they want people to replace it after   a couple of years  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i had a toyota  
and i loved it  
my toyota did   really well  
good  
yeah  
well i think part of the problem comes in sort of shoddy [workmanship]  
the people just don't care about   what they're doing  
you know the whole  
nobody cares no nobody's   really paying  
right  
give me my paycheck so i can go home  
yeah  
yeah  
and also i think  
well i do research  
and so i'm used to sort of being underpaid for whatever work gets done  
but and you get satisfaction out of it  
and   but i think a lot of it you know i think things come both from the uh individual side and also from the company side  
because the companies that let give the attitude that well you know  
you're the last one hired  
so you'll be the first one fired  
and we just want you to do your days work  
and we don't really care about you   as an individual  
when you've got that type of attitude on it the people don't care   about their work  
and so  
little value just in whatever you do  
doing a good job of it  
okay  
hi norma  
have you taken anything back lately uh that you've bought  
well why  
very good  
good  
well do you think that uh consumer goods goods are generally getting better or worse in quality  
i do too  
i believe about ten years ago that we went through a terrible time  
but i don't  
i i believe that they're better now  
you know  
however i didn't like it very well when the transmission went out on my car with sixty three thousand miles on it  
and i don't like it very well if when my electric blanket that was only one year old went out at uh on one side  
no  
i had moved away  
i had taken the first one back  
i didn't think that it heated well enough  
it never did get anything but just moderately warm  
took it back  
and uh the people told me well that's the way it's supposed to be  
and i fell for it  
and uh when i got this one it did a it heated a little bit warmer  
and then after one year it started heating only on one side  
also i took an iron back after having it only one year  
now i figure uh anybody that is dumb enough to iron needs to have an iron that will last a long time  
and one year of ironing only once a week is not long enough for it to last  
well without even any question  
but i think it was the store  
wal mart  
yes  
and uh well have you been buying any clothes lately any new clothes  
that was poor quality i think  
i wondered if it weren't expensive  
and they should have put buttons on it that would last forever  
yes  
you spent that much on your dresses  
you're really [divulging] very personal information  
oh of course i do too  
well i believe that we've been talking about five minutes  
and norma it is just wonderful to talk to you  
you are a good one to talk about consumer goods because you keep up on it all the time  
bye bye  
hi  
well the only thing we've taken back recently are plants   shrubbery that were guaranteed  
and we had no problem with it  
we got our got our money back  
well i believe they're better  
i think so  
i don't think they're shoddy not as shoddy  
electrical appliances i think are pretty good reliable  
right  
oh did you return it  
no  
uh_huh  
huh  
so either you or your husband can be warm but not both  
oh  
no  
huh_uh  
did they replace it  
uh_huh  
wal mart  
i was going to say it must have been wal mart  
i haven't bought any new  
well the last thing i bought was a dress last summer  
and the buttons turned on it over the winter  
the buttons [tarnished] slightly  
and i have not gone back about it  
i think it is too  
and it was an expensive dress  
yes  
it was  
that's right  
that's what i think too  
and one belt loop the uh you know like the chain link chain belt loop   half of it [raveled] out  
and that was i believe a leslie [faye] dress  
and it was i think over a hundred dollars  
yeah  
i don't usually  
but i did that one  
but i think it should have been better than that for that money is what i mean  
okay  
i think so  
good talking to you too  
i've enjoyed it  
well we'll be talking to you later  
bye bye  
okay  
when they first said the subject my mind went kind of blank  
i thought gee i haven't taken anything back for a long time  
yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
of course  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
just to get you by five years  
and then you'll throw it away rather than have it fixed  
we're we're a wasteful society for sure  
right  
right  
and you usually get what you pay for  
we bought some [walkie] [talkies] a couple of years ago for christmas  
and they were like ten dollars  
and we expected them to work nice for the little kids  
and they didn't work   worth anything  
so we took those back  
and that's about that  
all that were taken back in ages  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh really  
it's hard  
oh wow  
uh_huh  
and it just [pertained] to that  
i at first i thought of food you know because that's what mainly what i buy  
it seems like  
and uh you know i still don't have any anything to do there  
but   but i i think too a lot of people don't buy their warranties either because they know that when it's that old they're going to buy a new one  
so  
yeah  
my husband is really good at fixing things too  
so he usually be able to fix anything that's minor  
and   and that has saved us thousands of dollars you know from to mechanic to   anything like that  
but but it was interesting to  
i don't know if they're making them better or not  
i it's hard to say  
some i think they more of their parts plastic which you know makes things break easier  
but i think the technology is better  
about quality  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well people aren't willing to pay those prices very often so you know for a [handcrafted] something  
so  
so  
so if we get what we what we deserve  
well i haven't either uh  
i i hate returning things  
i mean i i have a friend who if she likes something isn't sure what size somebody might need will buy it in every color and size and you know take everything back again  
it's you know it's a game to her  
but i i do not like to do that  
i consider it kind of a a waste of my time  
and so i'm usually uh pretty careful when i shop  
and i also you know usually have have checked over things you know if it's like an appliance or something to make sure uh it has the features in it that i want  
now we've had one lately um oh a uh a [dustbuster] plus   that we bought  
and we've had it for a while  
but all of a sudden it just wasn't working  
and it looks like there's a part missing from it  
my husband opened it up and whatever  
and of course we don't have the receipt any more  
so we can't take it back  
uh but i think a lot of goods are made not to last real long  
uh  
yeah  
well that's true  
and lot of times though it is it costs so much to get something fixed   that you almost are just as well off buying another one   you know if it's  
uh_huh  
well yeah  
i think a lot of times if you get a brand name   uh you know if it's a a good brand  
i you i think there's there can be a lemon in anything   but uh i think more often than not  
you you pretty well know what you're getting ahead of time  
and uh   you know if you buy a good one you shouldn't have any you know too much of a problem with it  
i mean we we had a car once that we tried to have declared a lemon under the lemon law   which is   extremely difficult to do  
we never could get it declared a lemon  
and the car would go  
and without any warning whatsoever you could be going down the freeway at sixty  
and it would stop  
and i  
there was just  
you know and oh we went round and round with the manufacturer and and everything  
and they got it finally [semifixed]  
but it was such a hassle  
yeah  
yeah  
it it really is uh  
but gee this is of all the topics i have had i'm doing this thing this is kind of the strangest one  
uh_huh  
well i think that's true  
and i uh now we generally don't buy a warranty because you think you know at least for the first couple of years nothing should go wrong with it  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i think technology is better  
i'm i'm not sure  
i think   you've got a good point with the plastic and that  
i don't think necessarily that things are being made better   uh you know  
i i  
everything is so automated uh  
and things can be made without i think   a human hand ever touching it you know   an awful lot of things  
and i think that certainly makes a difference from back from the time when somebody [handcrafted] something and you know had some pride in it  
well yeah  
that's   that's true  
yeah  
well i i do uh you know craft work and sell stuff at shows  
and that and uh uh you know it's it's it's a real eye opener as far as you know why people charge what they do to you know  
return anything  
right  
most the time they have a pretty good guarantee  
yeah  
the only thing i've had lately is uh my kids got all these barbie kind of toys for uh christmas  
and uh it takes them less than a day  
and they're broken in one way or another  
but i don't know if that's just kids or if that's uh  
maybe those type of products should be for older kids  
i have a five and a half and a three and a half year old that play with them  
and uh i don't think they're [unduly] rough  
but maybe they are  
i don't know  
but uh a lot of the little barbie sets they come with real little pieces  
and they're easily lost and easily broken  
but  
it's been a while since they've uh gone through the barbie stuff  
right  
don't remember her breaking uh  
well that's one thing they've got  
they've got every type of [imaginable]  
camping on the beach and all of these come with oh like tiny tiny little plates and little [sunglasses]  
and uh  
my three and a half year old has wanted this ken doll  
and so i finally got her a ken doll  
and uh less than a week later the arm was broken  
but they were real good about replacing it  
that's one nice thing is they're real good about replacing it  
right  
well the the you know those little arms are supposed to twist almost any way  
and  
she's not that strong that i would   she's not that big of a girl that i think could really   take a [grip] on it like a bigger kid could you know  
yes  
that was about it  
and the barbie doll itself is usually pretty durable and that kind of stuff  
but  
oh is that right  
well do you see that there's a big problem with electronic things  
don't buy them because you don't need them  
yes  
oh yeah  
yes  
well you almost assume if you're going to have problems with it it's usually before that warranty would [expire]  
any  
the first one  
you never even needed it  
it's time to replace it  
yes  
i think these extended warranties are [gimmicks] really  
a lot of it  
we bought when we first married we bought one on our t v  
and that there's  
it was a five year after the first five years  
and it was ridiculous  
yes  
they're a pretty healthy price  
and you're trying to think oh maybe i'll need this  
you never you always think gosh if i say no then i won't you know  
but  
i don't know  
you probably   got your worth out of it anyway  
yes  
the little  
well you probably are real careful of the brands you buy  
and the when you do buy things you probably watch what kind of type of  
yes  
well really   the only things that i have returned have not been [faulty]  
it's been because of the size or   some problem like that  
i really haven't had to return things because they didn't perform the way they were supposed to  
uh_huh  
what age are your children  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well my daughter is twenty one now  
so it's been a while since we've had barbie things  
but we did have barbies we did have barbies and things  
and there  
seems to me that that became a craze when she was already oh like you know third fourth fifth grade  
so she wasn't in it for very long before she was out of it  
but uh i don't remember her breaking a lot of stuff  
no  
i don't  
but i also don't remember lots of little pieces  
they've got so many different things with it now  
goodness  
oh dear  
well uh i guess if they'll replace them then they assume they shouldn't have broken  
any direction  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
the main thing that they've they had when my daughter was playing with barbies was just clothes  
you know that was about it  
uh_huh  
and the main thing my kids seem to be into nowadays are electronics  
my my children are twenty one and twenty five and twenty eight  
uh_huh  
and  
no  
not really  
we uh haven't had that much you know problem with things that we have bought  
they seem to to last  
in fact when they offer us extended warranties we we don't buy them because we've   we we find we don't need them  
and uh it seems like it's just a an added tack on  
plus a lot of the credit cards now you know will guarantee  
if you purchase on your credit card   you know then they put an extended warranty on it if it doesn't work or if you have a problem with it in a certain period of time  
so it seems   like it's a waste of money  
uh_huh  
and like i've even bought on a [recliner] once i bought you know a a an extended warranty for cleaning and stuff like that  
and i never used it  
and so it seems ridiculous  
and like   washers and dryers and things like that i've never had one go out  
in fact they usually  
when they do go out it's either something my husband can buy the part and fix  
and we don't even have a repairman come  
or it means it's old enough that it's time to replace the whole thing  
uh_huh  
so i mean  
i do too  
uh_huh  
and they charge you a pretty good price for them too  
uh_huh  
well my husband   finally just put his foot down  
and he said we're not going to buy any of these anymore  
and if it goes out well   you know  
uh_huh  
and uh so we really have been fairly happy with things  
but now we take good care of things  
and we don't uh run out and buy a lot of of things either  
and since our kids aren't little anymore i'm not buying a lot of those little things that can get broken  
well you look at the consumer guide  
and uh you go around  
and you look at the different ones and find the ones that have the  
so how's your products been  
i hear that one  
have you had any lately go out  
oh wow  
so you didn't get anything  
even all the all the warranties were out  
you're kidding  
yeah  
we just moved into a new house too  
so we had to buy all those too  
yeah  
the only thing i've had problems with is um  
i buy a lot of wood working equipment through the mail  
and i bought this paint stripper where they advertise that it's [nontoxic] and such  
and when you get the product it ends up being toxic and all these warnings  
so  
i didn't return it because it'd probably cost me more than  
i just ended up using it  
but that's about the only thing i've had gone wrong  
but  
that's incredible  
and they all went out at the same time  
or two days  
wow  
wow  
it's frustrating  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they go out a lot  
yeah  
see i'm in the manufacturing  
home from work  
and make um automotive air bags the safety air bags  
yeah  
at morton international  
and i  
well it's it's changed a lot with the manufacturing environment  
we test everything after each assembly process  
and so our testing is pretty thorough  
but  
um  
um the tests that  
well we test every one electrically  
we don't  
i think they test four or five a day actually [exploding] the air bags  
and but we do test after during the assembly project product um after we [assemble] each part of the [inflator] or what [explodes] the bag we check to make sure it's there after we install it  
so each assembly process has an inspection right after it's done  
and then we do electrical tests on them during the process  
so  
yeah  
well they do the all the testing that we have to do through the government  
it's incredible how much testing they have to do  
uh_huh  
um i really haven't had uh too many problems  
uh seems to me that everything that i buy goes bad just after the warranty runs out  
yeah  
i've had a dryer an ice maker a microwave all three  
and they  
unfortunately i bought them all three at the same time when i bought my new house  
and uh i really don't have any recourse  
so i had to call and have them all repaired and that  
yeah  
it was a hassle  
yeah  
the warranty on the refrigerator uh  
the  
the refrigerator [warranty's] still good  
but the ice maker itself passed it's three years  
and it was three years and two months  
no  
uh watch out  
uh_huh  
um  
i usually have pretty good luck with appliances  
but i just uh  
it was within two days that all three of these stopped working  
and the   the ice maker was uh had to have a new pump  
and the uh microwave had to have uh some kind of something i can't even pronounce  
and they uh  
the dryer had to have a new heating element  
so it was about almost three hundred dollars for all three of them  
uh within two days of each other  
i was  
it wasn't a good week  
i was pretty mad  
and plus the place that i'd bought them all had gone out of business  
so even if i i think even if i had uh had kept the warranty the service [agreements] were with the companies that that manufactured  
but still they were through that [retailer]  
so i don't know if i could have taken it to another [retailer] or not  
but i didn't have to worry about all that because they weren't under warranty  
so it was a call to the local appliance dealer   who came out and fixed them all  
but i  
the only other things that i've ever had trouble with uh  
i seem to have a real bad trouble with electric hair dryers blow dryers  
yeah  
i've had two or three of those go out  
one was under warranty  
and the other two weren't  
but i just  
other than that you know t v and things like that i haven't ever had any trouble with  
i don't think products are getting much better though  
oh really  
that's interesting  
do you do you test each individual one  
or do you just test  
like if you've got ten you test one  
and by the test results of the one you assume that the other nine are okay  
uh_huh  
well that's something i've never had to use  
it's never i've never been involved in an automobile accident  
so luckily that's a product that i haven't had to test  
but i think it's a great idea  
i'm i'm  
seems like all the good logical ideas take forever to come about  
but that  
oh i'm sure they want to be thorough before they  
but uh even  
you know i don't mind spending the extra money on the car   if you know even if they pass the savings the cost onto the consumer because it just seems like a real worthwhile thing  
i'm not a real big seat belt  
my uh  
uh not too bad really  
uh i had a [razor] that i got from christmas that i just i really didn't want it  
but i got it anyway  
and uh it was a [braun]  
and they were real good about taking it back  
it wasn't a problem at all  
so uh i was able to get that back pretty easily  
but uh i don't know  
i really haven't returned a whole lot lately  
have you  
um  
right  
yeah  
right  
like  
exactly  
i was reading  
right  
i was reading something in uh consumer reports tonight about that as a matter of fact  
they were talking about cars uh the car issue just came out   and about how yeah you'd like to buy an american car maybe  
but uh you know the transmission may be made in japan or whatever  
uh like i've got an eighty six ford ranger  
and and i know for a fact that the transmission is made by mitsubishi  
you know so it's like what are you going to do you know  
but uh that's the way it is  
i don't know  
i i personally feel that uh uh if the japanese cars are better and americans buy them you know that's the way it goes  
and you know people more than manufacturers should get a clue  
and you know they should start making quality products  
that's what i thought too until i saw the consumer reports issue  
uh they've got all the american well all the all the cars rated you know  
and uh essentially i i don't see much of a trend  
i mean just like every other time that you look at it the honda accords and the civics are right up there  
there's nothing wrong with them uh and the same thing with most of the other japanese cars  
but then again you look at a ford or especially a chevy  
and they're pieces of junk  
yeah  
that's ninety that's eighty six through ninety one  
but uh i don't know  
maybe they're getting better  
maybe they're starting to get a clue uh  
yeah  
that's just it  
technology that comes in right now is is probably not going to be implemented until you know quite a few years down the road  
but uh  
oh yeah  
yeah  
because technology is so uh you know volatile and changing all the time  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
it  
uh they keep up with it pretty quickly  
and that's that's a real good thing i guess  
uh i don't know  
yeah  
right  
they're kind of the leaders right now you know  
i used to see all those commercials for windows you know  
and you're like   oh gee they're reselling a macintosh under a different name  
yeah you know  
exactly  
almost is the key word there too you know because i i really i've used both  
and i really don't see an advantage of windows at all  
uh  
yeah yeah that's true too  
but uh i don't know  
i'm really i've gotten a little bit out of the the personal computer business just because i don't have one at home  
i i do use a mac at work  
but uh   uh i really don't don't do much with it at home  
but uh  
right  
uh_huh  
yeah  
you sound like you must uh work in the computer business  
yeah  
all right  
no  
well that's that's all right  
yeah  
that's true  
something that i find uncomfortable is you know you you want to buy something say you want to buy a personal computer  
and you got to think about what kind of memory you want to get and what kind of technology that you want to go for you know  
let let's take the example the modem for you know  
okay  
what [baud] rate do you get  
well you know it used to be that you get a twelve hundred  
okay  
so what kind of luck you been having with buying and returning products  
uh_huh  
i haven't had to  
it's uh the  
every so often  
i mean i i i'm almost pushing it myself  
maybe i'll buy a shirt from g i [joe's]  
and it [shrinks] too much  
and say well i should have known better  
i mean i bought it from g i [joe's]  
and it was probably made in china by slaves  
but uh they uh  
most of the time pretty careful shopping anyway i get pretty good stuff  
i think that uh aside from the fact all markets being [internationalized]  
and if you want to buy american it takes real extra work to find  
it's probably   a japanese or a burmese company owning and hiring people in the u s  
uh_huh  
yeah  
huh  
yeah  
really  
yeah  
i think they're beginning to  
the the days of don't buy a car made on a monday or a friday are pretty much going away  
and  
uh_huh  
i know  
still at it hey  
wow  
well they got a three year lead time  
it probably won't start really showing up until ninety four or so  
the computer industry's where it's really [dynamic] especially for the consumer  
and can you   think of any other industry where in software they  
if the product is upgraded and a better version is put out you'll get a free version in the mail  
or uh maybe i say well you know you paid five hundred bucks for this program so send us twenty and we'll give you a really great upgrade  
yeah  
and the hardware well i mean all the chips that make up the hardware are a commodity  
and the macintosh is about the only one that's going right   forcing i b m and the rest of the d o s world to follow along  
really  
why don't they just say almost a mac for half the price  
they'd sell more if they were honest  
yeah it   it's only an advantage for people who had to use pure d o s   base  
uh_huh  
[apple's] sort of making a  
and they're ones were  
[growling] consumer uh need to worry about the mac they're getting  
like if you bought a power book straight off a lot of them had to go back  
they issued a recall because of [improper] [shielding] or possibly other problems with   floppy drive  
yeah  
i have one  
i do desktop publishing at work  
and i have a machine at home  
and i belong to the user's group  
and i i've been a mac fanatic since they came out  
but uh technically i'm not actually in the industry  
i don't work a computer company  
i'm an [abuser]  
but it's sort of like [surfing] on the wave of future shock to   you know keep up with the changes as they happen  
yeah  
have you had that experience recently  
oh yeah  
oh  
well i don't have so much trouble with products as service  
i don't feel like that's as big a problem  
i've had a few answering machines over the last two years just because i've had a lot of trouble with them working correctly  
and i'm not convinced that any of them work a hundred percent  
uh the one i have now is okay most of the time  
but that's it  
but that's that's probably the worst  
my daughter has a charm bracelet i bought her that's guaranteed uh james [avery]  
i don't know if you have that up there  
but it it's a very good company that   sells [sterling] silver things  
and   uh she has a charm bracelet with lots of [charms] on it a lot of money into it by now  
and the catch broke  
and she was sitting in school on a carpet  
and when she stood up it caught and broke  
and we took it back  
and they said oh this was just obviously yanked  
this was yanked  
i mean they were so rude about it  
and so we wanted a different kind of catch  
and she said well it's not guaranteed  
and i said well put it on because apparently nothing's guaranteed  
so do it anyway  
so we got the kind we wanted  
and i was really disappointed with that  
i felt that this was a company that should have been more reliable  
and i happened to need a birthday present for one of her friends  
and i called there to see if they had it  
and the lady was very nice  
and i said my goodness  
i said you've been very nice what's your name  
and she told me  
and i said well i really appreciate it  
i said there seems to be a big attitude problem in that   store  
and it turned out she was the assistant manager  
so  
right  
so i felt kind of good about that you know  
i didn't   even know the person's name that had given me the hard time or anything  
but i just felt like well at least i did something  
maybe they'll fix it  
they might work on that you know  
but i find attitudes are more of a problem  
service is more of a problem  
really  
that's really great  
huh  
that's really good  
it use to be like that  
but  
i don't think most places are like that anymore  
recently i can't really say recently  
but i think about uh about a year ago uh i bought a product from some company down at uh in atlanta georgia  
i believe it was one of these uh one of these uh [mixers] these like these juice machines  
and uh   the uh the blade they sent me at first that went into the machine it looked you know perfectly okay  
but i found that uh it was made of some material which actually ended up rusting   uh after  
even despite you know diligent washing it it got rusty after about uh three weeks of use  
and i don't think it was my fault because i you know i had made a point of like [drying] it off and cleaning it  
but uh it was really uh it was  
i had to send it back after like you know the third week because i realized it was like it was not  
something was very very wrong with the blade  
uh what about you  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well at least your talking to somebody who counts  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right  
i find  
up here in the northeast we have uh well we have these mail order companies like l l bean  
and uh they are famous for i guess having really top notch service  
they've got uh  
i mean i've i've i i have friends and family who order from them because you can you can literally i've heard stories where you can literally buy something from them one year wear it for a year and a half  
and even after like eighteen months of you know reasonably [satisfactory] use they will accept it in any condition  
and they will gladly no questions asked take it back if for some bizarre reason you decide you don't want it anymore  
uh they'll they'll actually do things like this  
i mean they're really they they bend over backwards service wise for you  
i've uh   i've found also a lot of companies nowadays have they have eight hundred numbers you can call  
i guess if if you call the any eight hundred number uh if you you can call up any eight hundred number [directory] assistance and you can get uh the eight hundred number of the customer service support line for a number of companies  
and um actually i've tried that with a few companies lately  
and they've most of them have been pretty good  
but i i was  
one reason why i like i buy a lot of clothing through mail order is that uh if you buy through bean or though  
uh i guess bean's one of bean's big competitors is [land's] end out in uh i guess it's wisconsin somewhere  
they they are uh they're very good about   uh  
like the customer is always right  
and you know no matter how [crabby] you might be over the phone they are very understanding  
and uh they usually get you know they they make things are they make sure things are set properly if you're any way dissatisfied with their merchandise  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well i think i guess nowadays with the uh with the economy the way it is i guess  
there was a there was a story on the news tonight about how because a lot of companies are uh you know  
things are getting rough out there  
there's a lot of you know  
the morale among employees tends to go down and that in turn like you know  
all righty
okay
have you recently had to return anything
okay
tell me about it
oh my goodness
you mean it the warranty wasn't on it
or
oh
gosh
well i haven't had to return anything recently
but i you know i feel i'm going to i'm on a portable phone i'm going to go closer to the station here uh i i feel like things are are not made as well as they used to be
i um just you for instance clothing i you know i have two children
and um we they they like nice clothing and i spend a lot of money on it
and it just doesn't last and i mean i'm very careful to follow the washing instructions and do exactly what it says and it still it they still wear out very quickly
uh i find things that are sewn very poorly uh they they come [unhemmed] or [unstitched] so easily
right
right
uh_huh
they never cut them off
oh
i know it's really it's silly
and and my i have teenagers and they they think they want a certain brand or a certain item well when you buy a brand name that's popular you're paying for the brand name
and
no
exactly
that's what i you know i'm saying that the you know if i'm paying for the name
and i'm paying that much money
it'd better be a quality product
now i do
there's there are some that i think are a little bit better
and i
and i've been real pleased with them and my kids have enjoyed wearing them
and they've lasted until they've outgrown them
but uh the majority of things um don't last and they're just very inferior and you know i try i try to look at the labels and i i try to to buy things that are made in the u s a
because i think that's important
and yet i find a lot of the the the homemade goods are are inferior and also with cars
i um i i bought a new car last summer
and i shopped around for a long time
i mean we went to a lot of different dealers
and i wanted to buy an american car because i had had a toyota
and i really liked it
but i felt like i needed to buy something that was american made
i felt i owed that
well i just could not find an american made car that i felt was worthy of the price they wanted
and um i ended up buying another
i ended up buying a nissan and i love it
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh i know
exactly
uh_huh
yeah
and they're so much more solid they sound better when you're in them they feel you feel like you're in a car and not [rattling] around in something i you know i just i just am real pleased with the nissan i had
and i had a subaru before the toyota
and i loved that it was just the best car i've ever had in fact i wanted to buy another one
but i really it really didn't have what i wanted they didn't have the the type of family car i wanted
but that car i had for five years
and i never had one thing go wrong with it
and it um only thing i had to have replaced was the clutch and i had to do that twice because it was my fault because i ride it all the time
and uh so you know
it wore out
yeah
no
yeah
that's
true
is that right
oh i know i've
heard great things
yeah
oh yes
and it's a safe car too
it's a good made car
oh
that's great
well that the the subaru i had when i sold it it still had the tires the factory tires on it
and the factory battery one
i mean that's how good
it was i never had one trouble with the battery and which is amazing in five years
i didn't have to get a new one
and it worked perfectly and it was amazing the tires were um excellent
and uh you know when i sold it it didn't have that it was low i didn't think i had like thirty seven thousand miles on it which is nowadays low
but uh i got a good price on it
it's got good resale value
and it was really a good car
and you know it it kind of is frightening
i think that you're right american uh manufacturers still haven't got the the idea that that quality is important
and that
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
you're right
you're right
oh yeah
uh_huh
yes
exactly
that's right
that's right
because you
well the thing is when you have to take your car in continually because it's not working and pay that much money in repair bills it's ridiculous
i i had a plymouth that was just the worst car in the world
and i mean everything that could go wrong with it went wrong with it
i had it in to the dealership more than i had it out
it was terrible
and i got rid of it as fast as i could
it was the most it was a lemon is what it was
and uh you know i will never buy a plymouth again simply because of that
is that right
uh_huh
oh i've heard good things
about a honda
yeah
my niece has one
and she loves it too
yeah
but you really liked your ford truck huh
uh_huh
yeah
well i'm looking for a used truck for my son and it's it's really been hard because we i we just don't have that much money to to spend
and he just turned sixteen
and uh you know i i want to get an inexpensive truck a small one that um you know i only have to pay a couple of thousand or you know three
thousand
yeah
yeah
they are we did find a couple but uh you know they just
i wasn't real sure about them
and uh so we kind of passed them up
um this one guy is not is trying to make up his mind whether he wants to sell his it's a mitsubishi and it's an eighty five
and he wants to sell it for about two thousand
but uh he's not sure he wants to give it up and start car payments again
so we're kind of waiting for him to make that decision
but you know
oh
yeah
yeah
they're car payments are outrageous
now
oh that's right
uh_huh
uh_huh
well that's why it's important to find a car that you don't have to keep taking in for repairs because if you're going to keep it a long time uh you're
i mean you don't want to spend thousands of dollars on repairs
so
yes
easily easily
and you know another thing about not only about uh you know products
but services you're not real sure of anymore
you you take a car in and you think it's fixed or
and and how do you know if they really even fixed it
and and sometimes i wonder you know
and it's kind of scary
you just you're not sure
i'm i'm originally from ohio
i'm in texas
uh_huh
yeah
oh yeah
yeah
it's uh
bad up there
but i'm i've been in texas like thirteen years now
so what are what part of texas are you from
coppell
i'm from plano
we're not yeah
we're not too far away
uh
is that right
well i don't have much more to say about things i i feel the same way that you do though i think it things are you know need to get better
and i think you need we need to have somehow more of a trust in in u s made goods
and it's sad that we don't
but
okay
well have you bought anything recently
and uh if so do you find it to your liking do you think it's worth the money
uh_huh
oh really
yeah
i can imagine
because they're not cheap
well i know that in going out and and looking at clothes uh even going to expensive stores the clothes look to me
so [sleazy] any more
i don't know whether it's the type of materials they're using is it you know
is it supposed to be you know crepe or what
and or if it's a case
now i was in dillard's
in an area and they hadn't even they'd hung the clothes out
but they hadn't even pressed them
so they didn't look good
to begin with
and uh you know
and they looked cheap
and they were you know they weren't cheap they were hundred and thirty nine hundred and fifty you know you don't buy find cheap dresses any more
even at penney's especially at penney's they've upgraded considerably
and uh the only thing that i know that we have uh uh televisions we have have gotten real good televisions we have had real good luck with televisions and i just
well i think that their
i think their quality is better
well that's true
that's true
you know you do you can buy a portable cheaper than you can buy a man's suit
i know
well i know that uh our son for christmas we usually for christmas we will give him a suit
and we try to you know stay around two hundred and something on them
well you can't find a suit any more for two hundred and something
uh_huh
uh_huh
you know i could you know for what some of the suits cost they have just moved into a new house i could buy them a a small new refrigerator almost as cheap
as what the suits are
and that's utterly ridiculous clothing has just gotten totally out of sight
and i hate to spend you know a hundred and fifty dollars for a dress that's made in taiwan yes
yes
yes
very definitely
so uh you know i i
other than the t v uh t v
i do think are made pretty good
uh but i don't think cars are made that
well any more
now what is it
what car do you
a ford
oh that's good
uh_huh
uh_huh
i don't know whether competition is so stiff between japan and and the u s or i don't know what it is
but you know the electronics seem to be you know pretty good value for their money
yes
yes
definitely
because i know the price of the big screen t v
they're going down you know compared to what they were three years ago
same model uh_huh
the only thing i'm not seeing go down that much is the [camcorders] the video tape things
they've gone down a little bit
we just bought one
we kept thinking they would get much cheaper you know
like somewhere around five or six hundred dollars
but they're still right up there around nine eight or nine hundred dollars
you know which kind of surprised me because how long have they been out now almost ten years
uh_huh
and uh so uh
do you hear the topic carol
right
oh well good
i feel the same way
just the last few years things that i have purchased have been you know pretty good quality have worn well as far as clothes or uh driven well as far as cars and uh sort of lasted you know for a good part
yes
oh
i think the only problem i have had in the last two or three years
i was in germany a couple of years ago and bought a [comforter] and some pillows and some pillow cases
i didn't receive everything
but you know you sort of take that chance when you buy something like that
pardon me
oh a little bit
no
i just bought one of those little handy [dandy] singer sewing machines
my wife you know the one you use in your the real small one that fits in your hand
i purchased one of those
the only complaint i might have there is that it takes so long to get the item
you bet
yeah
a lot of times i will do the same thing
one thing that happened recently about three weeks ago i bought a new pair of glasses and uh two days after i bought them
i picked them up and went back two days later which was four days after i purchased them to uh get them adjusted and i noticed they were running a thirty to sixty off sale
so i paid the higher price i did ask for a little interview with the manager and he came over
and he uh ran me a few free goods you know to make up the difference which i thought was fair
sure
but overall i'm uh
no
right
any trouble getting it back
sure
actually i buy most of my clothing from like the the bigger guys the uh dealers of the world people like that because they they don't have any trouble returning goods they they purchase so much from these manufacturers you can return anything
so generally speaking you never have a problem taking things back to them because it didn't wear properly or it came apart of something you bet
you bet
oh absolutely
the same thing
i buy a few things from [kebelsk] right
sporting goods
and uh sort of the same way you can have uh a certain amount of time period while you can just return something to your dissatisfied with it in anyway
and they are very easy to get along with
and uh they don't mind taking something back
bought a lincoln
and uh uh with the exception of someone hitting me and tearing it up a little bit
it is still a very nice car about a ninety one it is about a year old now
no
not really you know it is like the old uh saying they don't build things like they use to
and i really believe that in some situations
but uh probably in cars that is very true
um no
not really
i uh i may have had to have a a few minor repairs
but i haven't bought anything of any consequences other than clothes and things
and i will be in the very near future i'm going to be buying a big computer
and um one of these eight millimeter [camcorders] so i've been i've been studying these things
but uh i haven't had to return too many things i i i i try to be very careful when i pick up something and and look it over to make sure that it looks like it's going to to work
and i think it really turns down to picking who you want to buy from
and i hate to say it
but the the electronics devices that i buy the the ones in japan in generally are much higher quality from working
i mean i hate to admit it
but it's true
they they have a higher percentage of uh completely working models that get out to the public
that's right
you were speaking of that about a week ago i bought myself a new digital watch
that was made in china
works just fine
and it cost me four dollars
yes
it's amazing
isn't it
yes
uh_huh
that's right
and and that's been really uh the way it's been for me for the last five or six years
but i returned a t v set to be repaired but the problem was that uh we had a a lightning storm
and the lightning [flashed] in through the power
and uh hurt something in it
so it wasn't the [set's] fault at all
it was just uh one of those circumstances
no
well i tell you
most of my talks are in texas
that's true
i
but i've been
i've been uh talked into uh california twice in the last uh week or two
so it's uh
but but i know how it is if you're going to take care of texas you have to live in texas
i suppose
yeah
well we're being filled up with a lot of of stores
that have huge qualities of of uh clothes
and articles
and you know we've got wal [marts] and gee bees and a whole bunch of things
and i don't know how we can support all those things
and the and the only way they can stay alive is to buy cheaper products
so they can put them on the market cheaper for the public
and when that happens more of those products are likely to have uh inferior working ability and that's when you have to start returning them
so
yeah
that's right
and i i have a friend who does make uh beautiful furniture
but he has to charge twice as much when you go to a store
it it looks beautiful
and it's well made
but people can't afford it
yeah
yes
huh
actually i had some uh i bought a water [softener] for my home
and i didn't have to return it
but it didn't work
well and i i finally had to have the company come out and to check it out
so i did have that problem
yeah
i did i had to return a pair of shorts i bought for christmas a winter pair of shorts and the seam was out on the [zipper] went out on it right away pulled out
and the buttons were loose on it
and it was from you know a nice department store
and uh i guess that's true
but you know you think back
and you didn't have to do
replace buttons or anything
very long ago uh
but anymore
it's pretty common
that you do
but when the [zipper] went on this one
i said that's it
that you know that really did it
oh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
i know they hang they hang yeah
i know it
right
yeah
yeah
there are a lot of
and how about uh any appliances
i've had that happen with uh now i'm just got i have a [sunbeam] beater that we've taken back three times
and [sunbeam] always had a good name
now that just really shocks me
but i'll tell you that thing hasn't i burnt the motor out twice
and i cooked once at christmas
so that's about it anymore
but i bake and i'm very disgusted with them
uh_huh
um
that's right
uh_huh
um
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
huh
um
huh
right
and go ahead and get a new one anyway
you got a lemon
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
and you had it forever though
right
right
yeah
yeah
yeah
they've come a long way with the difference in the i heard an interesting thing on this morning on the radio to going to work about the japanese you know they have that big thing about the consumers and how many more hours they work on it
and uh they were saying that they did a study on it
and the japanese actually uh
i mean the united states actually produces six point five percent more product in the time uh more products than the japanese do
and the japanese take twice as much time and work
but they don't get the productivity out of it
and that they do because of the hours they put it they that's what they they lose
and i just thought it was very interesting
and they said in the and the unique part of it is that the japanese are the ones that uh did the study it wasn't as though we were doing it to show them they did the study
so i i got a big kick out of that one
yeah
yeah
yeah
i'm ready
uh no
i haven't
the only thing i had to i had to return was a table top
but that was like three years ago of a dining room table that i got
it was marked on the top of it
so all they did was replace it
but as far as um lawn mowers i've bought lawn mowers in the last three and a half years
and they've been working fine
my [hedger's] working fine
my [weedeater's] working fine
i haven't really had to return anything you know
except that table top that was marked
no
it said anything
oh you did
uh_huh
um
uh_huh
uh_huh
well did they give you any back any problem
or they just give you a new one
or what
um
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
if you go
and buy something really good usually it is it's good you know
and you don't ever anyhow
i've never had any problems in returning anything
that i've bought that i feel that you know was worth the money that you paid for it
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i've been really lucky knock on wood you know like i say that i haven't had to return anything except this this table when it came out
the top of it was marked and so all i did was replace the top of it you know
they they gave me
well no
i didn't go to the store and get it
they you know got with the manufacturer and then when it came in
then they brought it out
and then just took this table top off
and replaced with the other table top
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh really
uh_huh
yeah
with or with a [veneer] top or something like that probably yeah
uh_huh
oh for crying out loud
uh_huh
uh_huh
just sent it to you
that's weird
you'd think that they would have wrote a letter or at least a telephone call
you know telling you
that is what was happening you know
but um
go ahead
uh_huh
they never do
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
um
yeah
i guess the biggest thing that i returned recently was uh uh uh car a baby seat car seat
that we got um at a store and it was missing a piece there's a a clip that goes with them that uh i guess
yeah
for some seat belts or something you can't connect it without the clip and it didn't have it so i i bought it at one place
and i took it back to a different store
an and they took it without any problem gave me another one
and i opened it up there to make sure it was in there before i before i took it away
same type yeah
same type of store
it was just uh different location
no
yeah
in fact the way he acted it happened all the time
and uh my wife was reading in consumers reports i think the week later
about the car seats and apparently that's a pretty standard practice that they only put those clips in in about a third of the boxes
because not everybody needs them with the seat belts that they've got so they just don't bother to put them in in all of them
so they probably get a lot of that you know
yeah
yeah
i think you're right
it's probably hurting hurting that brand not to do that uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i guess it depends on what you're talking about
i i think it and it depends on the company too how seriously they take their their quality control and and just customer relations i think companies that think it's important to to have a good product and take care of the customer do a good job on both ends you know if there's a complaint they take care of it right away
because they don't want any bad p r and they do want return business
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
okay
yeah
i think that probably they're having to change some of their strategies due to survival in a lot of situations uh i think the car industry is a good example of that
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
huh
yeah
uh_huh
oh yeah
i worked in uh produce counter at safeway so i know that
there's a lot of things that are brought in that are imported
so yeah
we do that all the time
uh_huh
uh_huh
true
yeah
i think they're they're trying to lower costs by [cheapening] in a lot of areas
well yes i did i returned a number of things yesterday at uh j c penney
but it wasn't um it was clothing
and um the blouse was uh supposed to be a size six
but the shoulder [drooped] over my shoulder and it wasn't you know the style of the blouse it just
i think it was sized wrong
but you know it was a nice blouse but
and um i took some uh [lingerie] back that wasn't well i the size that i usually buy did not fit in their in their brand
it was too small uh but as far as large items goes like appliances or things like that
no
uh_huh
uh_huh
well uh i would like to comment on my washer um uh my washer if it gets out of balance it makes a horrible noise
and you have to make sure that your clothes are balanced
but um it was doing it quite frequently
and so i had a repairman come out and look at it
and he said well you need this
and so done to this machine and i said oh really
and i
he says let me show you
and i i said oh yeah
i see that it really needs something bad you know
but it didn't uh have an affect on the performance of the machine
what what it was the um it was a cap after your um after the body of the machine was in place
it was under that
so it wasn't visible and it was out of sight
and it was rusting out
although i don't have any rust in my clothes and i said okay how much do you want to uh do this repair work
and he told me almost two hundred and fifty dollars
and i said hey i can go buy a new one for that price
and i said no i'm not going to do that
i said the performance of the machine is not affected by that part
and i said
and that's not
that's not the cause of the [imbalance] i said i just have to be more careful how i put my clothes in and um so that was two years ago
and my machine is still functioning fine
so i didn't you know
and he wanted thirty five dollars for a service call
and i says hey wait a minute they didn't tell me that when i called
and i said i'm not paying it
i says if they had told me up front
i would have paid it
but since they did not say ma'am
there's a thirty five dollar service call
but they didn't
and i says i refuse to pay it
and so he he had called his office and told them what i said
and i i was released from that service charge
so you know they were they
to me that was [underhanded] i wouldn't have minded if they had said okay uh
we have that service is thirty five dollars or whatever they they charge maybe it's different um um charges for different things
i don't know
but it seems to me a service call would be kind of universal for anything
and then they get into the nitty [gritties] of charges for whatever you've got wrong with your your item
yeah
they really could
yes
oh they are a fantastic company to deal with
oh uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh my
okay  
where does she live  
rutherford  
i don't know that  
uh_huh  
it's oh oh south and okay  
yeah  
i know where you i know the area  
right  
that's kind of on the other side of town  
so   our kids probably never went to school together or anything  
oh well i've got one in college  
by now  
right  
whether it is possible to have an honest government i'm beginning to think it's not  
what about you  
i don't either  
i i think  
uh even if people have good intentions i think uh power corrupts or something to a certain extent you know  
yeah  
it seems like uh maybe more of them come in with good intentions  
but it's just so [enticing]  
and a lot of corners being cut and the special deals available because they're in on the know you know  
oh  
right  
i mean you even see people on a small scale [cheating] when they have certain positions  
you know what i mean  
little bitty little bitty positions in your own home town and they'll cheat somehow or you know bend the rules use their power  
so maybe it's just man's nature  
uh_huh  
oh my word  
oh wow  
what were they doing taking some  
oh no  
oh gosh  
yeah  
right  
right  
oh  
um we haven't had that big a scandal in arlington  
but we do have the people that work for the convention center were [falsifying] records  
in other words they'd go out and have a big lavish dinner and then put somebody's name down that they supposedly had entertained  
but that person wasn't even anywhere near there you know  
some of them weren't even in the same city  
one of them had had cancer and died  
and i mean that was our biggest scandal for the last few years i think  
i don't i don't either uh to make it totally honest  
uh i think there's there's always going to be some way somebody can cut a corner uh  
however the things that have gone gone on in the last couple of years we can't afford too many of those you know the   the hud mess or the s and l  
we could almost not afford such terrible corruption  
right  
right  
i think that uh reagan and bush were up to their necks in that iran [contra] thing  
and it kind of makes you feel bad that the top people in your country would be lying to you like that  
but uh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's right  
but they stay there  
uh_huh  
right  
and this would be for the best for the nation overall  
you're right  
it's just a  
i don't know  
i guess that's where they stay in uh in  
they try to stay in office  
but they always please the money people too  
they need money so much because they're constantly having to run   for office again  
and  
uh_huh  
that's true  
boy it is a big problem  
but i think most people are kind of depressed and cynical about government now  
don't you  
i know  
it's really terrible  
i mean there was a time i mean where i remember when i was real young i just loved harry truman  
i thought he was great  
oh you know i had  
some of them seemed like kind of uh [heroic] people  

uh on rutherford  
it's uh corner of new york   uh just west of [mayfield]  
uh  
oh okay  
oh they're they're little ones  
oh  
let's see we're on government   whether we think it's honest or can be  
i i don't think under the way the system is right now it is  
the ultimate power ultimately corrupts  
i don't know if   there is enough money that you could pay them just   you know x amount of money to keep them honest  
i just i just don't uh  
right  
we had uh here in oklahoma we had a few years ago a major uh corruption on on our county commissioners  
and there were several counties uh including the one i was in that lost every one of their county commissioners  
and   i mean it was to the point of not just losing their job but going to jail  
oh they were taking kickbacks  
yeah  
just a little here a little there  
major amount here a major amount there  
but i think there was something like you know thirty or forty commissioners that ended up going to jail  
uh that's that's small scale  
i don't know you know  
i really don't know what could be done uh  
that's right  
the cover ups and  
i uh i don't know  
i just uh i'd like to believe that there is some way that our political people would really go there and look out for our interests  
i think that's what upsets me worse than that they're getting a little you know uh on the side   that that   it seems that when they get up there it's it's what if i vote your way what it'll do for me rather   than this is the way my constituents want it  
run  
maybe  
and then you think well if it was longer terms   then they would never have to try to please the people at home  
i don't think that they anyone has a lot of respect or faith in the government  
well i wonder if they really were   or if we just really didn't  
okay  
i think the first thing they said  
i have written this down  
so it would  
is it do you think it's possible to have honesty in government or an honest government  
yeah  
right  
that's a good point  
that's an you know that's interesting  
i had read something one time  
and it was just applying to governments in general  
it was written many years ago  
it said that it's impossible to have a completely honest system of government because people who choose government for their positions are power seekers  
and i thought that was interesting  
it wasn't just talking about our government  
it was just government in general from times past you know   on  
and  
right  
and that would be a next question to ask  
how many do you think are in there for for  
because they want to be a service to us  
or are they in there for their own gains  
and personally i feel it's probably there's probably some of each  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
oh yeah  
and they talked uh  
the other let's see  
third question was how serving for their own gains do you think goes on  
then they  
that's hard to  
i'm sure there's a lot but i agree with you there's a lot in business  
i think that's just i think that's very normal   that we should not i think  
i think we put too much on politicians  
we expect them to only be there to serve us you know  
yeah  
that's a problem isn't it  
it's interesting  
because i'm taking a texas government class right now  
and one of the things  
it's so easy to blame them to  
a lot of times i think it's our own fault  
they lie to us because we don't want to hear the truth  
and it  
if they tell us the truth we don't elect them and   especially with all this stuff coming up here lately about people's past  
and i don't know why anybody would want to get under that [scrutiny] anymore  
because it's   i think it's gotten just well  
we're not talking about issues we're talking about somebody's personal life  
and and we're getting away from what we ought to be looking at  
right  
you know i also think it would be funny if we could know everything about the people that were in there and throw them out  
i don't think there would be too many left  
uh_huh  
uh at uh it's t c j c  
[tarrant] county junior college  
yeah  
and it's really it's really enjoyable  
i like it  
and then they also you know ask can we eliminate do you think we could make laws to eliminate all corruption  
and i don't think we can make laws to eliminate anything anyplace totally  
yeah  
but that   doesn't mean  
i don't think making laws will stop it  
i mean i don't know how many laws you would have to have  
i mean  
no  
sure didn't   did it  
so no  
i think you can legislate  
but i think there's no way that you eliminate it all by [legislating]  
and we would end up with so many more laws that you know  
i mean i just think that's human nature that you're going to have corruption in government in business personal life i mean you know  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i still believe i get very fed up with government sometimes  
but when i think about where i'd want to go you know this is still the best  
or i can  
yeah  
yeah  
at it's worst i think we've got the best  
okay  
you're asking what my opinion about   whether it's possible to have honesty in government  
well i suspect that it is possible  
uh i think it probably is more likely if you have a small government unit where everybody knows everybody  
but uh other than that i think maybe it just depends on how you define honesty  
uh_huh  
so they're saying that government officials would tend to be power seekers  
right  
yeah  
but i think maybe a lot of them um  
say the more honest ones who are still looking out for themselves it may be more matter of not what can i steal while in an office but how many friends can i make while   i'm in office  
and you know how good a name can i make for myself and so forth  
so i guess it would be like anything else  
the president of general motors probably has the same  
i think   i think a little more honesty in the campaigns would be   more to the point  
if you knew what you were getting when you voted uh  
yeah  
yeah  
they say you   get the government you deserve  
uh_huh  
it's hard to imagine  
yeah  
and it almost seems like in order to avoid uh some of the scandal you would have to have the kind of wife that you would only find on say in the [bobsy] twins or   something like that  
so you're taking a government course  
at what  
the university  
oh  
okay  
you can make laws against corruption  
but that doesn't eliminate it does it  
well they've got laws against [cannibalism] but that didn't stop that guy in   milwaukee did it  
actually i think other countries may have it worse uh  
the japanese government is always having a some kind of a scandal  
usually involving the prime minister or people very close to him  
so uh  
yeah  
i've been around to a few other countries  
and i uh i i have not found one yet that i would rather live in  
i think uh  
uh so do you think our politicians are honest at this point in time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
i agree uh with with both of those things  
but uh do you see any way of like [altering] it so that they would become more honest  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh the only the only problem i see with term limitations uh is that i think that the bureaucracy in our government as is in with most governments is just so complex that there's a very you know there there is a learning [curve] and that you know you can't just send someone off to washington and expect you know his first day to be an effective uh congress person  
uh i think i think there really is a there's a lot they need to learn you know when you get there  
uh_huh  
yeah  
but  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh the other the other thing that uh bothers me about our system is just that uh in for for in in in congress the amount of power any any particular congress [critter] has is based on their seniority and how long they've been there  
so it's you know for you know uh  
so unless you have actual you know across the board uh limitations the uh you know the idea of  
well we're going to just we're  
i'm i'm just going to you know vote vote against the [incumbent] every time doesn't work  
you know it's going to wind up hurting your state if all the other states aren't doing it at the same time  
uh_huh  
uh_huh   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
well i mean  

i don't see why it makes a big difference the c i a because you know officially they don't do they don't have any operations within the united states other than administrative  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
generally i don't think they are  
uh my my personal opinion is that uh the politicians are out for their own good because they they're [entrenched]  
they don't ever have to go out and get a real job  
they just   stay in their current job  
you know what i mean  
i think by putting term limitations on you could you could slow down some of the problems  
uh but it has to be not just at the national level but at the you know the state and the local level too  
i know some senators  
and i don't know which ones  
but they've been in office since the the nineteen forties  
and i  
they've never had a job  
i mean they've never gone out in the real world and and paid normal taxes  
i know they pay taxes  
but they don't  
you know they they get paid a hundred and twenty five grand a year   which is more than twice my salary by quite a bit  
and you know i'm going like i i don't understand how they're supposed to be my servants and yet they're paid more than i am  
and they work less you know less than i do  
i think i think that's true  
however i think that's always been true  
i mean that's true of the presidency too  
and we seem to be able to get along with the president turnover ever eight years or four years  
and uh  
they  
i mean there is a lot to learn  
but maybe it will keep them on their toes and a little bit more active in trying to catch up  
i think two years is too short  
i think it would have to be extended uh you know  
a term limitation for congress would be like three terms or even four terms  
or you would increase the length of the of each term of a congressman  
uh but maybe [standardizing] on on a a four year term for congress   senate and the the presidency and then uh staggering them so that you don't  
we aren't [tackling] a massive ballot every four years  
uh_huh  
i think i think that that's true  
but then you have you have the same abuse of power on the flip side of that coin  
uh the c i a is moving out to west virginia which is a really stupid location for a large agency like that and for almost any agency  
i mean the action isn't in west virginia  
i hate to tell the the senator from west virginia this information  
but   it really doesn't  
the world does not revolve around west virginia   uh as far as this country is concerned  
the world does revolve around d c you know   as far as the politics in this country are concerned the national politics  
and the c i a is a a very large very high profile agency and to have it located out in west virginia  
yeah you know  
it might only be two hour drive from here but that's a two hour drive  
and uh you know it it's a i think it's a mistake to move large agencies like that  
or is it the f b i  
i don't remember  
but i think there's  
yeah  
that's officially  
i mean we all know that that's not necessarily true  
but i i think that there are there are advantages to having seniority and uh or not having a complete turnover every some small number of years  
i think there are i mean there's an institutional memory that you need to maintain  
but i think that uh all with all the perks that we've given them  
i mean i heard on the radio back a a few weeks ago uh during the incidents where they were you know like they aren't paying their their restaurant bills  
and   they're bouncing checks all over the place  
uh one of the radio stations over here listed off every single one of the perks  
uh i don't know  
my personal perception of government and uh the way things are at this current time is that nobody can really be trusted  
and i don't feel that too many of the candidates are out there to uh be self serving to the community  
i think that they have their own uh wishes to uh be in the [limelight] and to kind of say hey you know i'm a public official i don't have to do uh certain things  
and they just stand out more involving themselves more and more with politics  
but it's really  
after all the things that i've seen in the last ten years about government and now the [overdrafts] uh of checks uh before that it was the wonderful uh [escapade] that they had with uh the new uh-oh god chief of uh  
well supreme court  
i'm trying to think of his name and uh what they put uh him through in regards to  
yeah  
thomas  
the sex sexual harassment that kind of thing and just to see our government react to that and then just little things that have added up where people have taken vacations on taxpayers' monies and things like that  
i i just think it's very corrupt and whether or not they need to start with people that are extremely poor   and send them into government versus people that are rich  
but it's always the rich person that gets into government that has the money to advertise the money to to do this  
there's no more abe abraham lincolns out there uh that can get into government even if they were poor  
so i know that's my personal viewpoint of things  
now they just uh they've already put through the health bill  
yes  
it just went through  
and it was passed  
and that is going to be a heavier tax burden on a lot of the taxpayers and a little bit more on to the medical  
uh i don't know if that was done out of just let's be the first state to do it or if it was done really for the needs of the people  
you know what i'm saying  
it it's  
right now every little state around here is thinking about oh we need to reform the health uh system  
and of course they think uh wisconsin our or minnesota our neighbor passed a state law the health bill  
and it's kind of like we're the first to do it  
so i don't know if it's done because we're we want to be standing out as being innovative in the health system or whether it was done for uh you know a real good purpose to help people that can't afford uh health insurance that kind of thing  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
oh sure  
uh_huh  
it it sure does  
and   i think it it is reflecting  
like you said i think society as a whole uh you can't expect uh  
when we have t v and we have things that are kind of bombarded at us for uh you know [immorality] and this and this and this that we can expect somebody to come off that's going to be clean totally clean   and come into government  
uh but down the line it does hurt  
i mean when somebody's corrupt and somebody's doing something it's uh you know it does hurt each individual of the society when you find out that somebody's done something or the [overdraft] policy or you know the other things that have occurred  
so uh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
yeah  
well that's exactly what happens in government all the time  
they blow the whistle on each other  
oh i hear that you're doing this  
i've done it  
but oh boy  
and it's not going to get out  

yeah  
exactly it's uh  
there's no   secrets in the government uh   i don't think anymore  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh sure  
i think i i don't think uh  
thomas  
uh_huh  
doesn't wisconsin have a uh state uh medicare program or health program  
right  
well i i think the one of the biggest problems that uh we see in government today is a reflection of society in and of itself  
and that is uh uh we become so debt ridden and credit oriented   instead of uh cash and carry or debt free  
and therefore uh that puts a lot of [undue] pressure on [municipalities] state and federal governments  
right  
well what is  
see the thing is is when a lot of things become acceptable practice   uh it's hard to [discern] the what has become muddy as to what is ethical and what is not ethical  
and then   someone blows the whistle and says oh this is not ethical and yes i did it too  
yeah  
we just had  
uh  
right  
the mayor of dallas is uh [bartlett] steve [bartlett]  
he also uh was a congressman   uh to the uh to congress  
and he had been in that position for years  
and uh he was elected mayor of dallas   [overwhelmingly]  
however if the vote was taken today the whole thing might change because he was part of that uh check [kiting] scam  
well i think there are honest people in our government
i think it's uh
and we do have some checks and balances to keep it honest
but i think it's always a real challenge to uh make sure that we have people in there that we can count on
to be honest
yeah
i think there are and have been some things that have been done to maybe make things better
you know one thing is the opportunity on our income tax to uh allow certain donations to uh be made because a a lot of times i think you know people anybody that runs for a political office has got to either be independently wealthy
or they've got to be [beholding] to somebody to help them
yeah
and so you know i think if if there were ways that we could get away from that
and let just the common man be able to run
for office that that
yeah
that's right
yeah
well my husband has uh held public office for a while
and not a paid public office i might add and uh
yeah
that's more public service
i guess than public office and it's been a real eye opener to us
course i feel that he's completely honest and what all
and there have been people that have said you know that they how much is he being paid
and all this kind of stuff to to do things
yeah
well obviously if they ever looked at our house
or our car or whatever they would know he's not getting paid anything
but uh
yeah
i think that's true
yeah
that's probably true too
but at the same time you know when i go to the polls to vote
uh i always am real nervous about who i'm voting for even if i have studied the issues and heard
what people have had to say and everything
because uh you don't really know that person you know
and you don't know even if what they say is what they're going to do and what their real feelings are on a lot of things
absolutely
yeah
i guess that's a real problem you know i i i don't know how we solve that one
because i'm not sure that you can ever especially the the higher up you go you know like a senator or congressman or something like that
i don't know how you would ever get to know any of those people
well enough to say you know i know this man on a personal basis
i know
he has integrity
and i know he you know
yeah
or just read the league of women voters
answers that they give or
yeah
so it's sometimes you just don't know
that's right
uh
well that would be nice
if we could do that
oh uh_huh
oh i can think of one like that also
just blows your mind doesn't it
oh
well that's uh debatable if you read the paper every day
looks like there's a new scandal breaking every every minute uh
yeah
it is
that guy that does the traveling show
that's that's on broadway and everything now
yeah
that's supposed to be great
i don't know
as long as there are lawyers making up the majority of the state legislatures and the national congress uh i don't see a lot of change
happening
isn't that funny how that
happens to be a correlation i'm afraid not
unfortunately
right
i saw a a lawyer joke book the other day
and it and the title of the joke was skid marks
and of course there's a major joke about skid marks and lawyers
but uh i don't know
it just it's pretty disgusting every time you
it it's not just the [unethical] part of it
it's the self serving part of it
that bothers me about the politicians they're all out either for a particular controlled interest group of some kind or maybe several uh and rather than really honestly decide issues on the basis of what is good for the country
everybody decides them with this the constituency in mind
or or afraid that they're going to hack off the wrong group or the other vote wise
and yeah
exactly
and so we if we just limited terms senators especially and even supreme court judges
this [appointing] them for life is just absurd they wind up
senile old men making decisions at eighty years old
just just say that the most
you can serve is a couple terms
and then get in there
and then you could get in there and do the best possible job that you really feel like
you should be doing
and then you're out of there and go on to something else instead of this
because this
exactly
well at least you decide things you decide things from
the stand point of what's best hopefully for whatever agency you're [representing] yeah
i know
i just
think we ought to
we limit the president why not terms of the others and give
there's plenty of other qualified people to run
uh_huh
exactly
um
that's right
and above nothing either
starting with [duvall] county
yeah
yeah
that's that's probably true
i haven't
yeah
well that's it
when the very people making the laws are going to be the ones who would have to pass those uh against themselves
it it sort of uh goes without saying that it would be awfully awfully tough unless you could get the best thing that could happen to the state legislatures would be to be full of just independent businessmen or just businessmen working for companies that could somehow get their salary made uh justified you know
or
brought up to whatever over the state salary level uh
uh well you know i i think it really depends you know i think you know if you know taking the current batch we got you know i think paul tsongas probably isn't in it for like his own gain i i don't see him as that kind of a guy i can believe like that bill clinton might be uh i certainly think a lot of people in congress are
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well you know i i think if you like compare us to other governments you know i i think we tend to be overly critical of our own government
i mean you go
right out in the open it's like you know you want to do something you know you better even be the president's best friend or you know pay me a lot of money or whatever they call it
right
or bucks make right
well you know i i think you know to some extent you know people get the government they deserve is a cliche
but it it's really true
i mean if you know you hear these guys i think that that this is the first election
i've heard about where a lot of the incumbents are really saying okay
we're getting out because it's too much heat
i mean normally it's
yeah
okay
what big scandal
but it comes times to [reelect] them they say hey this is the guy that brings home the bacon for us you know he's got seniority on all these committees we're not going to replace him
yeah
and i mean also you know you look i think a lot of it has to do with with with with the issue of campaign reform when it costs you
i mean ten million twenty million dollars i've heard horrendous figures to run for a senate seat you know job pays a hundred thousand a year you know it the you work it out
unless someone is incredibly [altruistic] you know there's no reason for them to want to run for that
right
well it's an imperfect system because people are imperfect i i mean the problem is that you know you've got as i said there's no incentive to go into i mean look at our state legislature and things where very nominal pay
but there's also not you know what's the campaign the campaign is four guys go against each other
and there's no advertising those people
i can believe are doing it because they want to change the process
but when you're talking about having to spend tens of millions of dollars to get elected
and then being in the pockets of all these people who gave you the money and then having to regard how to you know how to uh do for yourself
i think i i really think that it's not so much that corrupt people go into it as that the process corrupts
i i think it depends a lot on on the state
i think that it varies from state to state
right
oh oh man i don't want to talk about the school board
we've just we've just been having school board meetings and it was like people suing each other
what do you feel do you feel that that our government uh is it possible to have an honest government or do we have an honest government
uh_huh
well uh i'm i'm rather young i'm only twenty two
and so uh my knowledge is based you know mostly on what i read you know in history
but i do think based on what i read uh what i've read uh about our history of our government
i think things are getting better uh in the in the last maybe ten or fifteen years where americans are becoming a little more aware
and uh are forcing our government to be uh on top of integrity
you know
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
have i
no
not yet
huh_uh
uh_huh
right
does it worry you that um say someone like david duke got such such publicity during uh during his campaign
and that and that now he's running for uh thinking of running for president does that worry you at all
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
i i don't know either
i hope he doesn't know something we or i
yeah
hope he doesn't know something we don't
uh_huh
wow
oh yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
well uh i'm kind of disappointed that that uh the two parties have such a [stronghold] in the in the nation
because if if you belong to any other party uh you know any other platform i should say
uh you're not represented um
i i don't i don't belong to any particular uh platform and and i don't think i ever will
but i'm afraid that um i think his name was anderson was the the gentleman who ran for uh on an independent ticket against reagan
and uh carter um i was real disappointed that uh uh that he didn't he didn't have a chance uh because he didn't have a platform behind him uh uh
uh i guess uh i've always been kind of interested in in space and stuff  
i've   read a lot of the   the uh [astronomy] books and   and stuff like that uh  
uh to a degree  
i haven't kept up as uh much as i would like  
i've just been so busy uh  
i barely get a chance to read a newspaper now and then  
so  
yeah  
well i wouldn't even mind uh being a pilot on one  
or right now  
but i'm probably getting a little too old for that  
right  
yeah  
well they they just made leaps and jumps  
i think a lot of our our technology we have is is quite a bit due to lot of the space travel uh uh equipment and stuff that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't know if you ever watch [gallagher] you know  
he's one of the [comedians]  
and   and you know he he talks a lot on on velcro  
what would we do without it  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
there's there's a lot of a lot of little things that have come up  
i know maybe some of the big things that uh uh  
concentrated foods for one maybe  
i   uh i don't know  
it's also just i've i've often pictured uh in my mind you know what it would be like to just what would you find if you just kept on going kept on going  
uh i guess our minds are so uh uh what is it uh finite  
when we try and picture the universe as an infinite object   and it's hard to to see you know  
i always thought well what do you do hit a brick wall eventually  
it's hard to consider that something could go on [indefinitely]  
yeah  
but  
yeah  
i know it's i think it's in people's nature to be the first to do something  
and i i'd love to be the first one to step on a planet or some like you know  
yeah  
huh  
i think that's what made us uh progress to the state we are is our curiosity  
there must be some better better way of doing this  
a better place to be or whatever you know  
it's  
so you you are always looking for something better  
i know at work uh people always complain to me  
i well you are always whining  
and   it's i'm always looking for something better uh  
there's a better way of doing it than what we are doing it  
yeah  
well they are always finding easier ways  
and you know just because they don't talk about it or something like that  
and they are doing it you know unconsciously  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
have you been following the uh the progress of the space health code  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i think it's pretty exciting that they can uh  
it would be interesting to see if they can find uh other planets that are that will be more [habitable] to uh you know uh humans  
and uh yeah  
i think i would be very interested in space travel in the future if uh if it you know if it is at all possible  
well i know if they make the advances that they have been making that uh maybe age will no longer age or even physical uh abilities may not be uh a barrier anymore  
yeah  
i agree uh  
as a matter of fact we're the ones that i have been to houston to to you know to visit the uh space center out there  
and uh one of the big advances that we use every day now is velcro  
and uh that vacuum uh little space program was one of the big you know [backers] of that  
it's amazing you know  
you  
it's hard to imagine what life was like without it now  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i've seen him before  
yeah  
we were talking about that just the other day  
what did we do without it back then  
i guess there was a lot of buttons and a lot of [zippers] and [snaps]  
that's right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
that's true  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
that that is uh that is something that would be hard to think about  
i agree  
you know like you say we're used to finite things  
and something that is infinite and just incomprehensible  
but uh yeah  
i would like to see them uh do more in that area to make space travel more uh something that the ordinary person can uh enjoy  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
me too  
i wouldn't even mind being not so much being first but just uh get out there and and just explore  
i think uh it's in everyone's nature to some degree to want to get out and explore something they haven't   or experience something you know indifferent  
oh sure  
sure  
of course  
that's true  
uh_huh  
yeah  
that's true  
yeah  
that's right  
that's right  
and if you are just content with being you know with the way things are then you know then you must lead lead a pretty dull life  
because if  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i guess uh you don't really think about it too much  
i guess you are always finding newer ways and better ways of doing stuff  
but  
it it's in a [subconscious] you know thing  
you know somewhere they can sit down and write down what you know things that you've improved upon  
you probably wouldn't have a pretty good list  
but you just don't think about them  
and that's true  
i think uh you know  
we've gotten different programs at work you know to to uh make it visible to management that we are doing things better  
okay howard  
what do you think of our space budget  
and should we go ahead and and keep exploring  
or should we call a halt to it  
is it doing any good  
uh_huh  
oh really  
oh yes  
wish our post office could do that  
that's right  
i wish they'd just deliver stuff  
uh_huh  
i agree  
i agree  
seems like that we've kind of gotten side [tracked] with putting all these different things up there to monitor  
and you know you know and i'm in favor of you know getting closer to seeing certain things  
but i'd like to see them also go you know go back up there see you know what they can do see about setting a space station up  
i'm all in favor of the space program  
and i don't think we should stop  
and i don't think we should cut the money  
uh  
yeah  
i would like i'd like to see that  
i'd like for us to really find out more about the actual universe and get up there and see what's going on even if you know there's no life up there or anything you know  
but who knows  
and i would like to see them do something like that  
i i hate to see them just you know keep getting diverted off to [spying] on other nations and putting up defense things  
and i think they i think they lose sight of of probably what they're supposed to be doing  
yes  
yes  
i believe they are  
you know let's go back to our original thing with you know our experiments and all the you know our actual exploring of space and and all that  
and you know with with russia uh seemingly not going to be as big a threat  
huh_uh you know  
have you gone out to uh fort worth to see the space soviet space exhibit  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
we went uh  
we took our grandsons and went uh the weekend before last  
and it is marvelous  
i mean it's really neat how they they have done it  
they have done a beautiful job  
and they have a uh scaled down model showing how they you know fuel it or you know how they uh-oh the fuel trucks and things run out there to it and how they uh  
all the things that are against the actual space mission uh space ship you know how they fall away from it  
and the [loading] of it  
and then it's actually you know  
the smoke comes out like it's taking off  
it is really interesting  
you really do  
it's it's well worth the time and effort  
we went uh early on sunday  
we got out there about uh ten ten thirty  
and the  
no  
we bought tickets there  
and if you have children if you go to mcdonald's you they have coupons or did have  
now they may be through with them now  
but uh buy one adult  
and one child gets in free  
oh okay  
oh okay  
you have teenagers or something  
yes  

well i had grandchildren so three of them so between their mother and their grandfather and i  
because their dad was at work  
and uh   but and the boys loved it you know  
they really did like it  
uh_huh  
it is  
and i felt the uh six year old would you know that he'd be kind of bored  
but he wasn't  
even the three year old enjoyed it  
because they had one had one of those moon vehicles   and had it so it looked like it was on the moon and showed it moving around and stuff  
so it was really neat  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well in going through it i got the impression that actually they were farther ahead  
i think that the space program has done a lot of good for the country  
now i think what we made a major wrong turn when we went into the uh to the current generation of space craft the reusable ones like they are now   because they have not proven as reliable as they should have  
and i think some of the earlier approaches were much more uh much better in many ways  
however uh you know we've gained an awful lot from the space program all the way from remote monitoring to teflon to uh some new space age materials plastics and all that  
so i think it's been a good investment  
uh somebody was telling me the return was about twenty five or thirty dollars for every dollar spent   which is amazing for any governmental financed   program  
i wish the post office would just stop raising our rates  
i think though that now that we're finally starting to get over the fears and the uh-oh i don't know the guilt that we had out of uh [challenger]  
i think maybe we can   pick up and go on now  
but i i don't know  
i don't think we really have all of our act together yet as far as clear objectives  
the space [station's] where we should go   at this point  
well where do you think we ought to go with it  
you talking about uh uh a fully [manned] space station that we'll keep up there  
well  
well i think about half the nations now are are military related are they not  
and uh   it seems like it's that high a percentage  
well it can't afford to  
no  
we were talking about that this weekend  
we it's only going to be there a couple of more weeks  
we need to go  
have they  
oh yes  
well maybe i need to run out there this weekend  
now do you have to have tickets ahead  
excuse me  
um i think both of my kids are too old for that  
they're both uh  
yes  
yes  
did you  
it's very impressive i'm sure  
uh_huh  
well see that's something else  
the russians have had space stations [manned] space stations for years now  
you know they had the [merv]  
and see we've yet to keep anyone up over   over a week or ten days  
uh well uh to begin  
i guess uh space is uh real important i think  
so it's real vital to the future of not only our kids but every generation until the end of time i guess  
so  
uh  
so uh  
but uh i'm not too up to date on the space on the space [frontier]  
but uh i guess they're going going pretty far into it now  
um star wars is not too far i don't think  
but uh  
oh have you  
so what do you know about it  
really  
oh my gosh  
wow  
well i don't know  
you think you'd you think you'd uh go up in space if you had a chance  
do you  
i think i would just sitting here talking about it  
but if the time came it'd be real nervous  
i'd be scared  
scared me worse than six flags roller [coaster]  
that'd be pretty [hairy]  
yeah  
imagine  
right  
right  
so well i guess they're talking about people going to the moon and stuff now wherever   and opening up those stations whatever filling them  
i don't know if we'll ever see that up there  
oh really  
that's all beyond my imagination really  
but science fiction books  
i mean you look at the jetsons you know cartoon show and it's not too far fetched what what they all had in those cartoons  
so you never know  
any of that stuff from the jetsons from that cartoon that you would never imagine would come become possible and now you we have a lot of those  
so  
so you never know what what may occur  
but   as far as me seeing it you know   i don't know  
i don't know  
but i think it's real vital important for the future you know   generations to come  
so  
yeah  
i'm sure it'll draw a lot more interest too once it becomes you know like it's more possible  
but   when they start showing the drawings and all that i'm sure you know when they  
right  
uh_huh  
so did they scratch those uh that star wars deal you know they one we was all worried about   russia and all that  
yeah  
but the economy the way it is all over they probably cut back on   on that because it's not  
right  
yeah  
i know  
and then  
yeah  
and we don't know who's handling them now  
so that's a whole different story now  
oh really  
uh_huh  
some crazy hit man over there so   with those little republics or whatever  
they splitting it all up now  
and one of them crazy   crazy guys get a hold of it  
you never know  
but that the guy that's taken over for gorbachev he's supposed to be he's supposed to be on our side isn't he  
pretty much  
uh_huh  
i think we went through him though to get to gorbachev on a lot of subjects  
so  
but that way you can't never tell that  
kiss some butt  
but   but uh  
yeah  
i i agree  
it's definitely new [frontier] stuff  
i i i worked on some of it at t i   once upon a time  
yeah  
well actually i'm i i'm quite versed lately  
i get on a computer network all the time  
and people are talking about about the current space program all the time  
they're talking about new rockets that they're designing now that you know are just like science fiction you know  
it's like they   take off you know  
and then they land with the with the you know  
the [afterburners] are going you know not like space shuttle landing you know [gliding] down but   straight down to the landing pad  
yeah  
it's called v c x or something like that  
also called delta clipper which is a decent name for   something like that  
oh yeah  
i think i would  
i think that'd be neat  
well you know i had a car uh uh a tire come off of a car  
so you know i like i know what it's like to  
depending on what was left of my technology to get me home  
yeah  
they're talking about doing that again too  
uh_huh  
well at least we're going to have a space station supposedly in the next few years  
yeah  
and they're going to put  
yeah  
oh yeah  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i uh  
it's it's it's something definitely that uh you know  
it's it's uh got the extra little [oomph] of interest  
uh  
yeah  
yeah  
i wish uh  
like uh boeing or   mcdonald douglas or something like that was supposed to buy uh a space shuttle sooner or later and just make it you know purely commercial  
and they'd go up you know and do things  
and  
oh  
no  
it's still probably going  
but i don't know whether it it research will go on  
oh yeah  
well they're they're going to be cutting back so much on just you know the number of troops we've got in europe and the number   of troops we have here  
but uh russia's still going to have missiles  
they're still going to be subs and things  
yeah  
latest i heard it was just going to be russia that russia itself that was going to have them  
at least that was you know that's what everybody says  
oh yeah  
yeah  
we want only russia to have them  
and now they're saying yeah  
yeah  
you're a republic  
you don't want those  
you don't want those  
uh_huh  
one hopes  
uh_huh  
yeah  

okay randall uh uh  
do you have any special interest in uh space flight  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what do you do now  
oh  
yeah  
to bad huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well uh i uh i'm kind of young  
i'm only twenty two  
and so uh uh i'm not you know  
there's a lot that's happened in my lifetime as far as uh you know with the space shuttle and all although plans to uh go to other planets have somewhat been [thwarted] in comparison to uh the sixties  
uh although i have a  
i i kind of wonder uh if some if it were possible to market some uh form of uh space technology you know to uh uh to make it equitable it might severely help the economy you know in the in the uh respect that you know there's endless amounts of research to be done endless amounts of resources and   and whatnot  
it would be great   if we could find some way to to uh use that to boost the economy  
uh_huh  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
yeah  
it seems like uh there's  
so you're talking about positive side effects then  
okay  
i understand  
sure  
that makes a lot of sense  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
uh_huh  
exactly  
least not  
yeah  
right  
now we're done  
yeah  
i think you're right  
i would too  
i'd i'd uh  
was it john denver that that tried to buy his way on to the space shuttle  
oh yeah  
ever since i was a young and uh used to watch the old uh apollo missions going off in uh classroom t v  
uh i suspect a lot of people uh uh got uh turned on by watching watching those go off  
uh very exciting  
the uh uh  
i've i've always uh wanted very much uh to uh be somehow involved in all that   and uh to uh meet and and to see see it actually happen  
of course i've really wanted to actually manage to get into space someday  
but uh that seems rather unlikely at this point unfortunately  
uh computer programmer  
unfortunately that can be done from the ground  
yeah  
made the wrong wrong career choice to get up into space  
the uh uh  
i used to think when i was when i was younger that uh by this time we'd have lots more in stuff in space than we do now  
uh frustrating at times  
i don't know what you think about all that  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well   yeah  
well the uh uh  
i've always uh felt that uh uh one of the long term solutions that at least a few of our problems would be to have uh some sort of uh solar power satellites up  
uh because that's a uh you know in [singularly] [renewable] resource that doesn't do it that doesn't require uh uh any particularly nasty environment impact  
and you can just get as much power as you need up there  
it's just a matter of how big you build it  
uh and of course the side effects of this is that you have to have uh [lunar] mining bases and space stations and easy transport into space and no things that i think we should be doing  
so the side effects of doing that which i think would be good you know very very good for for everyone in the long run is uh is it some of the other things i'd like to see happen would happen also  
so i'm  
yeah  
right  
right  
uh   right  
the only problem is of course that uh that requires significant commitment   from people to actually decide they want to put things like that up there  
and they want to do the research  
and   uh they're all you know  
the only [commitments] that they're interested in making or even talking about are ones for flash value like uh the trip to mars   which is would would produce some useful scientific research and so forth  
but the same money could probably be far better spent on uh uh [lunar] bases and solar power satellite research and you know so forth  
it it would it would be being done for the uh glitz and show factor   to get politician votes instead of instead of for you know  
we should eventually send someone people to mars but not just because it's [glitzy] to do so  
we should do it because for for the return we get for it  
and uh unfortunately that's not what i thinks happened  
i i would settle for the for the glitz if the side effects were useful like the uh  
but uh  
the [downside] of that is you after you do one of those people say well we did it  
now let's   now we're done  
no need to use this to play around with this space stuff anymore  
that's what happened with apollo  
uh   but uh i'd give almost anything to get into space  
okay  
go ahead  
oh  
sure  
uh_huh  
oh you're kidding  
yeah  
huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
oh that's good because sometimes i wonder you know being a uh lay person out there of not uh knowing exactly what's going on in space whether you know they're going ahead and doing things and whether or not  
we're spending too much money on the programs and not spending enough money on the earth that we have here  
being you know  
to me all this uh space exploration that we've done thus far has told us that there's no other place like earth that uh we can't live on mars  
we can't live here  
we can't live there  
i mean this is the the place that we have to live  
i mean there's uh no other resource for us to to look at other than here  
so it's kind of like to me  
i would like to see a lot more money being put toward taking care of the environment that we have here and not so much emphasis put on what's going out in space  
and what you know  
not that i want everything to halt  
and let's forget about the space program or whatever  
because we're always curious  
and we always need to know more things  
but uh to me it's kind of like let's try and clean up the air that we have here  
let's try to take care of the lakes that are getting polluted and the other things that are going on here  
mainly because uh  
the space program has taught us that there is no other place for us  
i mean this is it  
i mean if we would have uh if we would have went into space and found mars a livable uh planet we probably would have [inhabited] it  
and uh you know who would have cared about earth  
it would have been another planet to kind of take over and uh continue on  
so you know and that  
when i look at the space program itself i think of it you know as being in terms of it's it's interesting to learn but it's also it's it brings down the fact that this earth is it  
it's it for us you know what i mean   uh unless technology makes the decision that we are all going to live in space or whatever  
but i would love to uh go into the space shuttle some day and uh just see uh you know the earth and the different planets and things like that  
i i think it would be very interesting to do but whether it would be feasible to do i don't know  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
sure  
exactly  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
exactly  
yeah  
that's true you know  
and i i think of uh  
i'm sure you probably have heard of the genesis program that's going on currently out in the arizona desert  
uh there's uh you know they're trying to look at how things effect everything in trying to create you know an environment where they have an ocean and they have the lakes and then they have the desert part of it  
and then they have an area that's more uh you know full of uh vegetation [tropicals] that kind of thing to kind of look at things and say you know the environment wise this is where we're living  
but what what effects it  
and how can we improve it and things like that  
and i i think in space uh  
i don't know how many people could live up in space uh for any length of time  
i mean just the way that we're affected by when it's cloudy out  
and it's cloudy for days  
and we don't see the sun  
and the people their [moods] are extreme you know  
it's like god if i don't get to see the sun i'm going to be in this bad mood all this entire time  
and this is how i see people [reacting]  
you know when is the sun going to come out  
so i wonder how you know somebody living up in space is going to be able to tolerate never seeing the sun you know in the aspect that we see it   uh and never seeing uh you know light bright days you know  
and  
well uh a friend of mine actually works for mcdonald douglas in the uh in the space station program  
so   i get to find out a lot of information about what's going on there  
and   it sure sounds like that's going to be a really viable program if it continues to be funded at current levels  
uh they're they're going to be doing a lot of interesting things  
uh i think one of the big things he's involved with is the micro gravity [payloads]  
and that has a direct impact on a lot of things that we really can't do down here on earth including uh some new pharmaceutical techniques  
so you know there's   there's a big opportunity for us to explore uh what sorts of things you can do in a zero gravity environment  
so i suspect that we'll see a lot of gains from that  
right  
well uh as far as the practical aspects go i suspect that the space station may actually be a good compromise   between you know deep space i'm sorry deep space exploration   and uh and not doing anything   because we have the opportunity to off load some things to the space station  
and uh you know perhaps we can find better techniques for doing things that uh we'd normally do down here   that are damaging to the environment  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
right
right
uh well i'm i'm kind of with you
they've they've definitely run into some problems
and i think it's it's some
it's it's due to their own [shortsightedness] uh perhaps the trying to do too much too quickly
uh and you know they take they take some i think that they thought they were going to get a lot more done more quickly than they then they really did they didn't think out all of the the [variables] that uh that might crop up and they've been hit with a lot of those uh a lot of i think they've had a lot of poorer poor management here in the past several years
no no clearly defined goals uh uh um
and and goals are that were [obtainable] you know
they they needed to look at the long long range picture
i think that that uh soviets have have done a better job of that you know they were very uh they were limited so much in their technology and but they because of that
they they tended to say what we're going to do what we do
and continue to do it and do it over the long haul and so that's what they've done
and they've they've uh you know they they've had a man in in space for you know a quite a long time you know in in in the different space stations that they've had
and uh
so that you know that's been good for them
they've learned a lot
and they've they've made some [achievements] in that respect
but they've been doing it very slowly and very long range you know
and we haven't done that we tend to to look at a big uh a big project that we like to to have done you know you know do the shuttle thing
and and and have it as a you know a space transport system you know up in the next ten years
and you can't do that you know i mean it's just not not feasible
but you know you know the americans the american public doesn't like to sit back and wait ten years for something to get developed and and put up when
and especially with funding the way it is
uh i uh i think there are definite benefits from from from the process of of creating space projects you know we've seen that in terms of computers and and the uh myriad of different uh technological advances but uh like you say you have to kind of weigh that as to what is it worth in the long you know for the for the overall uh picture uh how much we are willing to to put out for to have teflon on our on our on our cooking pans
and right
right
right
right
you know i i mean i would love to see you know big things like that happen
i i mean you know you know i went through the entire and i grew up in that early sixties
you know big big boom
of uh all those mercury and [gemini] and uh apollo shots and and and and was real caught up in that and would love to see something big happen
you know i'd like to see that that occur but you like you say it's it's a
it it it is a drain and you don't
it would cost an enormous amount of money to put that up
yeah
put something up like a space station that would work and and really really be beneficial for us
and uh i don't i don't know if if it's worth it
space exploration well the nasa program i think has been very beneficial for this country and and and a lot of the household goods and stuff that we have today i think has come out of that program
uh
oh yeah
yeah
well and i think i i was going to say you you and i probably grew up at that time where we uh benefitted by the the emotion
and the that the program provided all of us you know really got wrapped up in what was going on the cost
however i will have to admit that i look at some of the uh problems that we're facing in the country
and i'm not sure that we can continue to devote nearly the dollars that we've been [devoting] over the recent years
that's true
that's true
uh_huh
well and i was going to say there are some other areas they could cut you know i don't they wouldn't necessarily have to cut it out of there
in think in thinking that nothing could go wrong
uh_huh
they really were
yeah
i i don't see that happening either although i would tell you that in a in a heartbeat i would go along
oh yeah
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh yeah
yeah
that's true
well and we're probably going to be the only nation for some time now that could possibly afford or be far enough along to continue with this kind of a program you know with with the u s s r
[crumbling] at this point
that's true
that's true too
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
the water yeah
oh yeah
yeah
well the capabilities from a uh uh [reconnaissance] basis whether that be for peaceful operations like you just described or military whatever is phenomenal from that altitude uh their ability to to [eavesdrop] or to to [photograph] or to uh
well actually at this point
my understanding of the space program is a little on the limited side
um
yeah
well that's to an extent that's understandable
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
oh it's supposed to be more of a colony than a than a research lab
yeah
yeah
like a central unit
and then everything else kind of rotating out from that
yeah
yeah
yeah
oh okay
they they had thought that out or hadn't
yeah
yeah
yeah
so it was all [modular] like you set up a small section
that would be [liveable] for a couple of people
and they send up another section and bolt it on
and
yeah
yeah
well that sort of thing could work
um what are the
was there any indication what they're going to do about uh gravity or were they just going to let you
bob around
um
yeah
what what they've started figuring out lately is that gravity or some form of it makes it a whole lot easier to stay up there for long periods some of the uh i i heard little bits of stuff about some of the things they found out about that was it one and a half year stay some soviet
[cosmonauts] spent up in space
and they had some problems [digestive] tract problems
and minor little problems
but they could eventually become pretty big problems or people
people with with problems to start with that
weren't really noticed yet
they they could generate into big problems
um
yeah
that's why a lot of the um designs for space stations have been circular so they can get them spinning [centrifugal] force comes close enough to uh [simulating] gravity that there's very little problem with uh uh gravity less uh side effects
you know i don't know if you saw it was it two thousand one that that double wheel arrangement that's uh one of the more popular theories they also have them where you've got a long central cylinder kind of like a like a cross connection tube and a lot of [pods] sticking out from that central core kind of
like a big pine [cone] like deal
or a bottle brush almost
where the [pods] are all rotating in enough of a a a rotation speed so that the [centrifugal] force pretty much is one uh is equal to earth gravity so
no
i've not
yeah
well actually it needs to be put off for a little while for now
just because there's so much money going into it
that would be a whole lot better spent on on local problems
um the health care and and uh law enforcement uh
well i think they ought to uh i don't think they ought to spend overly spend on it
but uh i don't see anything wrong with you know having a pretty good budget for it because uh heck i don't know
i don't i think maybe one day they will uh find a good use for it you know maybe they haven't all that much yet uh other than the little things
they've developed in this space shuttle the little experiments that they've done
and so forth you know
and uh i know they asked the question uh would you go if you had the chance
and i'd go tomorrow
if i had a chance
yeah
right
well i don't know
i just
it would be something i've never experienced before weightlessness i'd love
to experience weightlessness that's something i've always uh thought would be fascinating you know
yeah
yeah
i think so
when they had the uh accident
you know the space shuttle accident
and i thought well maybe i won't go you know
but uh since then
i thought well what the heck i'd go if it would be a one once in lifetime experience
i'd try it
no
i don't think so
uh it might
it it
very well may uh i think it's sort of had a setback because of that accident
and uh and sometimes i get really disappointed because they have so many delays when they have a launch
and everything
i think gee you know they'll never get this worked out
it just seems like they they delay it more and more every time they have a launch
so i don't know
you know they seems like they sort of bog down
they're not really progressing right now to me
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i believe that uh they'll eventually make it to mars
you know maybe not in our lifetime
but uh you know if this world is still here
at that time
i think they'll i think they'll eventually do that
right
is that right
i didn't
realize that
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
sure
sure
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
well that's true
that's true
and i guess they've got a lot of uh they've done a lot of medical tests
uh in space too
and uh i i don't know what they've they've actually come up with
but uh i know that medicine is another
area that they that they've used in space a lot
you know
that's right
right
right
is that
no
i don't even know about that
oh yeah
the the ice
right
uh_huh
to the weightlessness yeah
yeah
i i think they'll work it out eventually yeah
like you say it will be a major breakthrough right now they're sort of sort of sitting still but i think eventually it will uh they'll it will come to them
you know
that's right
well you know talking about the weightlessness i've uh
i've uh noticed that they've talked about like these russian astronauts stay up there for nearly a year
you know they have a lot of problems with the
i'm not sure what it is with the the muscle muscle tone and so forth
because they uh they have been [weightless] so long
and then they course they exercise
but it's not the same as exercising with gravity and the
i i'm not sure exactly what the deal was
but there were some problems with long term weightlessness yeah
and they were trying to figure out how to solve that problem if they were planning on going to mars
because you know it would be a real long term talking about a couple of years i guess
i i'm not sure if it was tone or exactly what it was
but i i remember they had a lot of problems with their uh when they got back to earth
uh walking you know
they they couldn't walk very well
when they finally made it back into gravity and uh i'm not sure exactly why
that was you know i mean it was because of the weightlessness
okay  
do you subscribe to magazines yourself  
oh i see  
i get uh mccall's  
of course anything that appeals to the homemaker since that's my main line of interest  
and then once in a while i'll pick up a working woman or something and   realize why i don't want to go back to work   what i enjoy about staying home  
and uh i read magazines mainly because they're fast  
and if i want to relax while i watch t v  
of course i'm one of those that does two things at once  
and uh i read good housekeeping and better homes and mccall's  
and i like them because they're kind of short and to the subject  
uh_huh  
and then you stopped them all  
i find that uh about two years is probably my max   on subscribing to one in particular  
and then i kind of get turned off by it   other than good housekeeping  
good housekeeping is the one that kind of sets around for when uh when i'm really have time and i really want to read something you know  
i don't get into books too often because i have so many things that i stay occupied with   uh on a general basis  
and we travel a lot  
so i enjoy reading parts on travel in the various   you know different ones  
and i get into uh newspapers  
so i guess that kind of tells you what kind of person i am  
i'm read it fast and put it down  
right  
well   that's what i do  
you clip recipes  
and you save them forever  
and you never really   use them  
and then every so often you weed through them  
and you think where did i ever put that recipe  
but uh that's mainly my uh whole idea on   you know short subject uh reading and things like this  
i i subscribe like i said to a few  
and once in a while i buy that new magazine called first on the [newsstands]   or something like that  
but i kind of stay with my own subject matter what uh [pertains] to my daily life   at the present time  
right  
well sometimes if you know if you're in transportation in public transportation   i know that people will read them on something like that  
but i think  
and the idea is to is and good  
i can just dump them at the other end  
and i don't have to carry them back with me  
i do that when we travel  
i always have my head with a magazine somewhere as we   drive or wherever we  
no matter what it is air travel or anything and i  
right  
although now  
that's when you really have time  
now see your computer ones  
i got into computer work somewhat uh  
we have our own computer system at home  
and i tried uh reading the magazines hoping i would get more from it  
and it was just above my head without having someone there to give me the advice as i went along  
it was you know kind of a little bit more than what i needed  
so i never did get into them  
i when i bought the computer all of a sudden i was receiving them for some unknown reason through the mail  
i think they all thought well we have a live one she'll subscribe  
but they were wrong  
i never got into them  
but but   okay  
all right i guess we might as well end our conversation at this point  
it was nice talking with you  
okay  
uh_huh  
bye now  
i don't uh subscribe to any magazines at home because we get so many at work that uh i need to read that uh i just don't take any at home  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i i used to take mccall's and good housekeeping and uh several magazines like that a few years ago at at at home  
but yeah  
the subscriptions ran out  
and i never renewed them  
and i found that i really didn't have time at home since i work to read them  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
uh_huh  
when when i had my magazines at home i would find that i kind of [skimmed] through them and looked at the pictures you know  
and   if something caught my eye then i might read something  
but otherwise than that you know they were uh you know not too useful to me you know  
i got some good recipes from them sometimes  
but  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's right  
right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
well since i work with computers during my work i have to keep up on all the new computer equipment and software and everything  
and i have to read the magazines you know such as [byte] and computer world and mac world and all of these uh magazines such as that  
so i really you know just  
i can see that it will be a very long time probably before i subscribe to any magazines at home  
uh_huh  
right  
that's right  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
if i if i go on an airplane ride or something i'll stop in and pick up a you know a cosmopolitan or something   to read on the airplane  
but uh you know that's basically just about  
i'll buy a [crossword] puzzle magazine every now and then  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
right  
okay  
it was nice to talk with you too  
thank you  
bye bye  
okay  
my name is karen  
okay  
and this uh  
they said about magazines  
we i've probably personally take i think just two  
but that's because my mother in law takes every one they print and gives them to me   a month later  
so so i get all of them  
uh the one that i really especially enjoy  
and you may be familiar with it from wisconsin is called country  
well this  
yeah  
this one is the one they have all the pictures of scenery from places we wished we live like   wisconsin  
gorgeous leaves and trees and all the lakes and the mountains and things  
and i get that it has recipes in it  
and that's my very favorite  
what do you take  
uh_huh  
yeah  
decorating  
uh_huh  
are you  
oh  
and decorating and how to do things  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well we we tried for a while to take a news magazine  
we took newsweek  
and i think we took it especially just during the war to kind of catch up on everything and   have it be [digested]  
but we've kind of discontinued that right now  
and we've we're going to start taking that uh u s news uh newspaper u s a today  
i think it  
yeah  
uh_huh  
that's right  
that's exactly right  
i did the same thing  
we saved the ones from the election  
and we saved the ones from the war and one from the earthquake  
and then  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well you sound like you   that's the thing you sound like you have the facilities to do that  
oh  
oh  
i bet it is gorgeous  
i agree  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
every page  
i do the same thing  
i i think i opened vogue the other day or something  
and it was just nothing uh_huh  
and i thought why buy this  
you know what's the point  
that's right  
and my number one pet peeve in a magazine is when they put the perfume in it   because uh real often i don't like very heavy [perfumes]  
and very often like you know in my bills also magazines and bills and they'll   come out just stinking the whole thing  
uh_huh  
oh  
i understand  
well do you do you tear out of your magazines your recipes  
or do you keep it  
uh_huh  
type it out uh_huh  
see how the family liked it  
oh that's a good idea  
well i'm going to pay attention more when i'm in the store to that country living i remember   seeing the cover  
back when i decorated the house with a lot of the little country uh [primitive] things the little the little pigs and the jeez and the   ducks and that we had that was the big rage here couple of years ago  
and i bought a lot of the country magazines  
and then it seems like when i put some of that away i quit buying it  
but i had forgotten the recipes  
and i'm going to  
i'll have to check that out  
uh_huh  
and you don't want to part with any of them because there's   one thing in each one  
oh that's good  
uh_huh  
right  
right  
i i know  
okay  
my name is terry  
okay  
oh yes uh  
there's country living  
there's country  
and uh  
oh yeah  
sure  
oh that's great  
well i actually take country living  
it's a   country magazine on house beautiful because i like um   that kind of stuff  
decorating   and uh getting ideas for a garden  
in fact uh right before you called i was planning my [tulips]   and uh putting them on blue print on where i'm going to put them  
so   i'm really into that  
but uh so i really get into magazines that are kind of basically into um housing type things where the be   decorating and gardening   and recipes that kind of stuff  
so i'm pretty much in the same category as what   you're looking at  
uh_huh  
sure  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
i've had time before  
i think with that what happens   is uh it's interesting to read  
but you kind of just put the magazine away  
and you never read it again   unless there's some big article in there that you're going to keep for your kids  
but  
yeah  
exactly   it sounds exactly like what we did  
we just saved everything we could   for our daughter  
but uh   that's pretty similar  
but i find that with these country magazines i keep going back to them getting ideas looking back and saying jeez there was a flower garden in there that i   that i would like to have some ideas you know  
i get a lot of ideas from them  
yes  
we do  
we're out in the country  
we're right across from a river  
and uh you're right the leaves are beautiful  
and they are falling now  
so  
uh it just [peaked] uh last week  
and it was just gorgeous out here  
but  
yeah  
it's beautiful  
the other thing about magazines the only thing i don't like is they really get heavily into advertising  
and   you know it's it's it's fine  
i'd rather almost have  
i know that part probably half their money comes from these people that are saying uh put my ad in your paper   and i'll pay you or whatever  
but uh there's been some magazines i've looked at  
and it's a real turn off to see every   other page   some kind of ad  
yeah  
vogue is   heavily into that  
yeah  
exactly  
it's almost  
i mean you could go into a store and get bombarded   the same way  
but uh   uh_huh  
yeah  
exactly  
exactly  
yeah  
they're really getting into that  
so  
but pretty much like i said the magazines i've had better homes and garden  
and now i need a switch  
and i'm going back to gourmet cooking because um i've had   the magazine before back in nineteen uh eighty six  
and i thought well i'll give it a try again because you get tired of one magazine  
and you need to try a   change  
uh yes  
i do  
and sometimes most of the time   i tear them out  
a lot of times if uh you know if i got a chance to sit down at my typewriter i'll go ahead and type out recipes  
but   what i usually do is i'll try it out in the magazine first and without tearing it out and then give it a  
yeah  
and then if we like it it becomes part of the recipe collection  
but uh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
sure  
sure  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it it that's what i i just went through uh  
we just recently moved from minnesota to wisconsin  
i went through all this  
i had this huge stack of house beautiful  
i had colonial times  
i had gourmet  
yeah  
it was hard  
but i ended up uh reducing them down to like fifteen magazines out of uh   hundreds  
and i just said okay there's one picture in there that  
it really doesn't you know  
it's got to have more than that  
it's got to have some good ideas  
it's got to have everything  
so i just kind of went through  
and i find that most of the magazines i really like is around christmas time because  
okay  
okay  
well we subscribe to people magazine and to time  
and of course i like the people magazine because it's gossipy   and it's fast reading  
and uh the time of course is uh you know more [newsworthy]  
and uh it has more world affair type things of course  
and then i will purchase a good housekeeping occasionally especially around the holiday time because of recipes and ideas and   and things like that  
and uh do you subscribe to any magazines  
uh_huh  
you probably have smaller children   younger children  
my children our children are grown  
and uh i'm letting their mother read on the grandchildren  
well do you think that people subscribe to magazines as much as they used to  
yes  
now my husband does that  
and  
you know and of course uh naturally wall street journal you know   and or sports illustrated  
but i don't know  
i know a few people leafing through them at the store  
but you just don't hear people talk about them  
and i know years ago when uh my children were young and stuff i just loved ladies home journal mccall's good housekeeping  
and i took them all  
and uh then oh i don't know what  
in the seventies maybe late seventies they changed their format  
and i haven't  
i don't think there's been a magazine as they used to be  
even good housekeeping i don't  
oh they are  
my sister uh takes uh town and country and vogue  
and she sends them to me  
and there's really nothing in them but advertisements   for very expensive clothes very expensive jewelry   things that the average middle class citizen is not going to be purchasing  
you know and if i want to drool or if i want to see how the other half is living   you know then i can i look through them  
and i do  
i just  
what i do is i flip through them and and pitch them then you know  
they're not something i you know take any length of time over  
i have discovered that you know with my available time i would rather actually read a book   than a magazine  
yes  
and uh  
so but  
yes  
yes  
yes  
i will read them in a doctor's office too  
as i said i i subscribe to uh to people and to time  
and uh and i will go through the time but usually not cover to cover you know  
i'll glance through it  
i like reading uh you know the passage of people or something   you know  
and uh but i do like the people magazine  
it it reminds me of the old time movie magazines when i was young  
and uh that's one and you know i really like that  
i enjoy that  
it's quick reading   you know  
it doesn't require a lot of thinking  
and sometimes after i've worked all day   and have things to do at night i just i want fluff  
i don't want a lot of thinking  
it uh you know it's it's much more relaxing  
sometimes when i read time magazine after i've read an article i'm real depressed over the situation of the world  
so well it seems like we both kind of agree on the subject of magazines  
and uh  
so uh i think that probably i will end the call  
i've enjoyed  
why don't you go ahead and start  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
i well i have in a for a while i haven't gotten any because i just find that i'm not reading what i'm getting because uh i have so much going on in my life  
that seems to be the last thing i pick up  
so i found that i was wasting my money as much as i enjoy them uh when i do subscribe  
i i've gotten in the past the parents magazine and uh the housekeeping magazine  
uh  
yes  
yeah  
yeah  
yeah  
right  
well i found that after a couple of years of having a parents magazine it was getting repetitious  
so i kind of canceled it anyway for that reason  
uh the housekeeping magazines i do like because they like you say they have nice uh recipes in them and ideas but uh lately they've just been piling up on me  
so i figured it wasn't uh something i needed at this point in time  
i don't know  
i i well  
my husband would love to have more  
now he's the type who will get the uh [inc] magazine and money magazine and all the financial type magazines  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yes   uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well  
yeah  
and some of those have had what what i consider or what  
i get the idea that they are maybe the the more [pricier] type magazines as far as women's magazines  
they seem just to be so [chocked] full of of ads  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
yes  
right  
yes  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
i enjoy books a lot more  
that's true  
well  
now i have certainly stopped subscribing as much as i used to  
other than my children have gotten  
you know they get tons of magazines it seems  
they're always getting something in the mail  
and and uh so between reading to them and uh reading the newspaper  
and then i have a book that i'm occasionally reading when i get a chance  
but i just don't get a chance for those uh [newsy] magazines the ones that are full of ads  
unless you just want to skim through while you're  
i i read them when i'm at a doctor's office or you know waiting on something like that  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
that's true  
that kind of is a good way to do it  
yeah  
yeah  
okay  
yeah  
is that it  
okay  
uh well we i guess we have to talk about magazines  
and uh what what  
well i subscribe to well i did subscribe to people for a long time  
i do you know  
i enjoy people  
and now i'm uh i uh subscribe to uh ladies home journal  
uh_huh  
okay  
are you interested in in computers  
yeah  
uh_huh  
yeah  
well that that would be one of my peeves  
my pet peeves with magazines the woman's magazines especially  
i mean it's it's really geared to  
all they have  
you have too many recipes first of all  
i just don't you know  
that's what i don't like about ladies home journal magazines  
too many recipes too many uh can this marriage with saved nonsense  
i you know i like to read articles about things that matter  
well of course people magazine is not you know one of your uh   your more intellectual magazines  
but it's nice light reading  
you know if i want something intellectual i usually read a book  
well that's true  
yeah  
they did  
yeah  
well is redbook still in existence  
i don't know if they're if they're around anymore  
yeah  
well i'll tell you the only reason i bought the uh i subscribe to the journal is because of  
which i think it was either  
yeah  
it was publisher's [clearinghouse]  
they told me you know if i didn't subscribe they were going to take me off their their winning you know their list  
so  
yeah  
my last right my last chance to win ten million dollars  
so i figured hey look   for twelve dollars you know  
that's it  
oh yeah  
oh uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
uh_huh  
well i don't know  
i just think uh you know it's   it's light reading  
you know you don't have well you don't have to concentrate you know you know  
it's entertaining you know  
and uh that's  
i just i enjoy it  
i you know i uh  
well that entertainment is is very  
wasn't that similar or isn't it similar to to the tv guide  
oh uh_huh  
oh i see  
oh uh_huh  
oh  
right  
right  
well i'll tell you since i've been getting the journal like maybe maybe i'll read two maybe three  
if i read three articles in in you know one of the journals i figure you know i did really well  
because there's just nothing in there that interests me  
i don't you know i don't i'm not into you know recipes  
and  
see now and i'm not into crafts  
so you know that that [eliminates] like three quarters of the magazine   you know  
well i just got the new issue  
they have [bette] [midler] on the cover  
so that should be one article that i'll read anyway  
okay  
you ready  
that's it  
what what kind do you subscribe to or do you  
i uh take a computer magazine   and uh also uh better homes and gardens  
and my pet peeve with magazines   is all the little cards inside   and the cardboard pages  
well that's true  
i uh i like it when they have short stories  
like redbook used to always have a good short story in it  
and i haven't bought a redbook in a while  
so i guess  
i i really very rarely ever pick up a magazine anymore  
yeah  
i think it is  
surely  
it's an institution  
surely it would have to be  
but  
right  
mine too  
this was it my last chance  
well i i   i went ahead and sent in my subscription because of that   uh to uh entertainment  
and i was real disappointed with it  
i i don't know  
it just  
not enough stories with some substance that you can really get into  
it's little short articles more than anything else  
and that's one thing i don't like about people  
uh it's just you know doesn't seem to have enough story to it  
if you've only got a short time to read  
no  
that's true  
uh no  
not really  
i mean not the one i take now  
it's a it's a magazine  
and it goes into all the movies [previewing] the movies   that are going to be released or behind the scenes  
and uh i'm a real movie buff  
so that's why i thought i might be interested in it  
but it just hasn't been what i thought it would be  
and uh my mother has subscribed to is the reason i get uh the home journal and the uh computer book is because mother got a subscription for it and sent it to me  
otherwise if if i really want to take the time to read a magazine and i see one on the grocery shelf i'll pick it up then   rather than having them delivered and think oh i really need to read this  
yeah  
well i i do like recipes and crafts  
that's true  
do you uh  
okay  
um what type of magazines do you have  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh good  
that's a good one i like to get  
um so i take it that you like to ski  
do you do you um receive a lot of information on skiing through the ski magazine  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh uh and do you receive discounts and things like that  
do you think  
or  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
so would this vacation you're taking  
did you receive information from your skiing magazine  
oh  
oh  
um that sounds nice  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh well you need to come out  
uh_huh  
deer valley  
uh_huh  
yeah  
they are  
it's wonderful snow  
uh i am currently taking decorative woodworking and uh country living  
and let's see we do have national geographic  
and then we have some church magazines  
but i really enjoy the decorative woodworking  
i'm heavy into woodworking and tole painting and things like that  
so   the decorative woodworking has just been a great great help  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they do have uh mostly they have uh the ads on the equipment  
but the whole magazine is just filled with uh pictures and projects that you can make yourself  
and then it has all of the patterns and instructions that you would need to make a wood project and and then how to paint it with the tole [paintings]  
and so it's really a fun one  
i like that  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yes  
i've i've noticed that too  
but they have been nice to have around  
every once in a while they come in handy  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh uh  
oh that  
oh  
uh_huh  
oh well that sounds like  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
they do they can do that  
i found that they've been fun for my little girls  
they're five and four years old  
and they like to go through  
and  
uh_huh they like to cut the pictures out and [paste] them on  
and so we've found good use for those  
oh  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
it's fun  
well i do have a boy in junior high too  
so  
so we're kind of running the gamut  
yeah  
we take several at home  
i i take um skiing magazine  
and i take uh discover magazine and also uh c d and stereo review   and national geographic i think   and boys life  
i presume that i do  
uh i suppose that puts me on some mailing lists and so forth because i do get things   from ski associations and things uh at during the year  
uh not so much that i uh more likely to see those at a ski show or something  
but   um i just enjoy reading about the resorts and where you can go and   and new equipment that's come out and so forth  
some fashions   are always in there too  
probably not  
uh we already knew we wanted to take one  
and we just started looking around  
i may have referred to a couple of them  
but we went to the ski show and looked at all of the   resort information picked up a lot of brochures   and just decided to go to [crested] [butte]  
we haven't been there before  
kind of away from the crowd   is why we chose that one  
it's   supposedly low lift lines  
but i haven't skied utah yet  
but i want to  
i'd like to go to [sundance] and park city   and some of those  
i understand deer valley is nice too  
well how about you  
what what magazines do you have at home  
oh okay  
does it have uh articles on how to do things   as well as equipment that you can buy and so forth  
well that's good  
it's good to get use out of one  
i'm not sure that um in the case of national geographic  
i mean i read it  
but then they just sort of gather dust for a   long period of time  
but then eventually there'll be a school project or something where my son will need to refer back through forty eight back issues to find   you know france or something or whatever it is   he's looking for  
i used to take [smithsonian]   too  
i liked that magazine  
but it was i was just found myself not ever getting around to reading it  
you get so many coming in  
and by the time the next round comes in i'm still not through reading the first round  
oh scientific american comes to our house too i forgot  
and that's   mostly my son's  
but   but i do read it too  
and he takes games magazine   game magazine which has puzzles and things   that he likes to solve you know [crosswords] and various logic puzzles and things like that  
he likes to try that  
so he does uh does get to be a lot of paper though  
after a while   if you don't keep them [weeded] out they almost take over  
oh yeah  
they're just kind of getting started now  
mine is a senior in high school  
so he's we're kind of at the end of that trail  
you're just   sort of beginning   to think about first grade  
oh okay  
so you got a little bit of a gap there between  
well i'm  
are you there  
okay  
i'm sure that i probably uh [prescribe] to different magazines ones that you do  
i take doll reader and doll world   because i collect dolls  
uh i also take better homes and gardens  
i like that  
and then uh my husband he just uh subscribed to a wood  
he just started a woodwork  
so he just sent away to get some woodworking books  
so what kind do you uh get  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
is it  
yeah  
i used to take that  
right  
yeah  
yeah  
i don't  
i  
if i you know if i happen to find it i'll go ahead and read it someplace you know if i'm in a doctor's office or something like that  
but other than that i never i never liked that really  
i read my newspaper  
i can hardly wait in the mornings for the newspaper   to get here you know  
so i do like to read the newspaper uh even this little newspaper that patterson puts out  
in fact it puts it out on tuesdays and thursdays i can hardly wait to get that to get the local news  
but uh other than that magazines i don't know there's so much advertising in them anymore  
oh okay   uh_huh  
huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
right  
right  
yeah  
well i i only you know subscribe to the things i'm interested in  
i used to be into coin collecting  
so i used to get the coin magazine the paper actually is what it was you know  
i used to get that  
so now that i'm into dolls that's about   all i really really want you know  
no  
huh_uh  
uh i think they're interesting  
yeah  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well those travel magazines are that more or less show you different countries that you could go to  
or  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
okay  
well i don't know any other magazines i could talk to you about  
uh i don't take anymore than that  
you know so  
well i guess that will be it then  
and  
yes  
yes  
different set  
uh_huh  
oh  
well i have a bunch of computer journals   because i'm in computer science  
but beyond that uh lately i've been reading  
i've always liked the new yorker  
and lately i've been picking up some of the travel uh both trade magazines and just the general travel magazines   uh trying to keep up on what's going on  
my   wife also gets a lot of the food magazines [bon] appetite and food and wine and gourmet  
yeah  
and she still likes to get time   which i've never liked very much  
but she seems to  
do you read a newspaper  
yeah  
some of them i used to get for the advertising like [byte] magazine which is uh one of the   larger computer ones  
i haven't bought it now for about eight years  
but when i used to get it it was about five hundred pages about three hundred of them advertising  
because that was interesting i think a lot of the trade magazines are like that  
that that half the fun is finding out what all the products are  
but you know some of the get ridiculous  
travel and leisure all of the american express magazines  
so travel and leisure food and wine and i think they have some others uh certainly half the pages and maybe more are pure ads plus they have the advertising supplement sections that are supposed to look like articles but are paid for  
and   it is it's clear that i i've bought some of these through [wholesalers]  
and they don't care if they make any money on the magazine subscription they're making everything on ads  
uh_huh  
have you ever uh read or subscribe to consumer reports for any length of time  
but not worth it  
i i've always had this  
one of the reasons i like just to pick up magazines in other fields is that you seem to get a very different perspective  
so i've always had this problem with consumer reports that in the areas that i know a lot about i disagree with them  
and i always wonder whether there are people who know a lot about every area [disagreeing] with them on everything   or or what's going on  
so i like i've picked up now a subscription to one of the travel agent uh organization magazines  
and it's a ridiculous difference when you start reading from their perspective  
uh you know their major interest is in commissions  
and you know there's very little talk about the quality of places or airlines  
their major talk is about you know commissions and commission [rebates] and how they won't suggest hotels to people if the [commission's] not a the full ten percent or whatever it is  
and   it gives you a different perspective on what people do  
uh some of them  
the the general travel magazines do  
i don't tend to read it for that   because i don't expect to be traveling overseas in in the future for quite awhile  
but i i usually just read through the sections on on domestic stuff  
no  
yeah  
i don't take much more in myself  
okay  
okay  
nice talking to you  
so what magazines do you subscribe to
uh_huh
oh that's kind of fun
yeah
well that's kind of fun
well we have like every magazine in the world
my dad is kind of a chronic magazine [subscriber] he gets uh-oh
gosh bird watcher digest and i mean just almost anything any interest he ever has for like a week
he will subscribe to the magazine of it
so we have got every magazine that that there is
and then i get uh new yorker because i like the the literature in it
and uh uh i read newsweek and u s news
i like newsweek
oh
yeah
yeah
i understand
when i first got in college
my dad set up subscriptions for all these magazines cause he could get them at the student cheap rate
we had tons of magazines
i uh pick out what i want usually
read read those cartoons in the new yorker
read the little synopsis find out who died in newsweek
and look at like celebrity pictures and i'm not the best informed person
i guess
uh you know if there is a news name that you don't know you can flip through the newsweek and try to find who it is
that is a little bit helpful
uh_huh
oh that's
great
yeah
right
right
are they like
p c world or beyond that
right
i know
yeah
that sounds good
uh_huh
really
until you start getting those old magazines
retirement digest
i said i'll keep subscribing to a magazine until i started wanting to get reader's digest
and then at that point
if you just cut it off
really
and golf digest
these are the bad signs
so i do not know we i do not what we do all the magazines
we just probably
well we do we take them to the library and they sell them there you can not recycle the shiny paper of the magazine
so we recycle everything
but the paper of the magazines go back to the library and they resell them which i can not imagine who would want like back issue of newsweek
but i guess there are maybe people in the world
that's right
people can get them and their children do craft projects cut the pictures out and
oh
which is bad
i do not like those [microfiche] i i we had this last year of school i my last paper of college
and i am writing this paper on [bette] [midler] i was decided i was not going to be very academic finally and uh you had to look through all these old periodicals and use [microfiche] and i just got seasick the little things [zipping] by your face
i just thought i was going to throw up
right
there in the library
it was not a good day
so
yeah
well they have like the the automated machines now you just press the button and the words just go [zipping] by and it it's bad huh
right
yeah
that's um we get a lot of demographics stuff at school
i know it's something you never thought you would care about
there is perhaps a magazine for every interest
in the world
uh_huh
yeah
there is it's a lot out there
we have modern maturity that was the worse
mom and dad dad turned fifty
so we got modern maturity like this is not good
it has like these health tips
and ways to fix [prunes] what a good magazine
so yeah
and so we are
right
oh no doubt
there is i am sure
i am sure of it
yes
i never knew all the specific things
they had in magazines
oh really
the word find in high light magazine
my doctors have the worst magazines
i have to change doctors
remind me to get that
i know
and we are not at any loss for reading material here
you pretty much you can read like table of [contents] before the next one comes and then there is like a big pile these are the magazines we are going to read
sometime
and so it's
no
i uh no
but we have this jumbo truck that comes by our house to
drop off the mail
it's a mess
that's okay
we keep the magazine [publishers] in business in the [midst] of the recession
we are
supporting america's publishing economy
uh_huh
line a bunch of bird cages with that
well i guess that's about all on magazines
nice talking with you
have a good evening
sorry to interrupt your dinner
well i normally buy them at the grocery store
i get like mccall's and woman's day
and and [ladies'] home journal
yeah
if i have time to read them
but
i understand that
actually for a while we were taking like family handyman
and thousand and one home ideas
because our house is like forty five years
well fifty years old now
and we were trying to do see what we could do for [renovations] so they really uh they've got a lot of good ideas
and it it's nice to get
i mean at least on those you could get a lot of tips from it
which you may not want to do the project exactly like they show you how to do it
but at least they'll give you ideas that you can use parts and bits and pieces of it
uh_huh
that's i've started doing that because i had so many magazines pile up on my desk at work
and then around the house is cutting out recipes
and putting them in like a photo album
and as long as they're only on one side of the page
but that way you know you can do that with recipes out of anything
and then little organizing tips
and and handy hints around the house and that kind of stuff
but i like i like those kind of the women's magazine
i guess they're called
uh_huh
uh_huh
well they've got some some good ideas on things that i probably wouldn't try otherwise
you know
uh_huh
exactly
yeah
we do that too
oh
oh
oh that would be good
ooh
ooh
my mother in law does a lot of gardening and i know
she takes a couple of gardening magazines too as well as as well as seed catalogs uh_huh
uh_huh
i like to look through just when we go down there
that's interesting because they have a little a little place outside of waxahachie so that's nice to go down there
yes
yes
exactly
uh as far as we know actually i think they're out of town this or they they're either on their way back or or just got back from georgia
so hopefully they missed most of the rain
uh_huh
i do too
i like to look at some of the fashion things going i'd never buy that for that price
i can get it at target or somewhere else
and i can make do with something a lot closer
uh yeah
that's a
they really are
i i noticed one today as i was looking through a magazine uh again cleaning out my desk and looking for one specific thing
and i found an article on you take this red wool knit wool dress and you can [accessorize] it with [beads] or with with uh you can put a sweater over it or you can just wear it with [leggings] or you could wear it with all different jewelry and it's like
okay
that would be cute
it would be cute but i couldn't see myself doing any of that
i'm only thirty
but i just still can't see myself doing that
yeah
oh
well yeah
that's
i can i like what they call [harem] pants the baggy slacks
but i can't see wearing just the [leggings] and a a a sweater seem like it like nope
sorry
not my style
not quite
uh_huh
huh
uh_huh
but that that i would be interested in
that would be good
if i could actually get my hair to do that
and mary [ellen's] helpful hints and all those now see i like those
i think those are fun
that's right
that's right
sure
just eating right seven days a week
and
uh_huh
uh_huh
when we have two kids
and and have to work full time
right
right
that's right
that's right
you're supposed to
did you hear i guess you heard the subject
right
right
well i tell you
i'm about a magazine junkie
so this is right up my alley
okay
well see i subscribe to consumer report texas monthly d time
my husband's now getting hot rod and then i pick up money magazine and a couple of women's you know if when i stroll through the supermarket
and uh i don't know
i just love magazines for some reason i even like people magazine
but i hate to buy it because you can read it in twenty minutes and then you feel like you wasted your money you know
oh
i bet your house looks nice
and mine is decorated the way it was seventeen years ago
oh well i'm afraid i'm not a woman's woman by the looks of this house i need to get a woman's woman in here to help me out
but i do like to cook
or i used to seems like you know the [busier] you get that kind of you lose out on that some
right
yeah
we do subscribe to that it is interesting
and you really get some surprises in there too
and if you would read it religiously you would save a lot of money
oh yes
i i we really do uh go out and look for some of the brands you know then then we'll lose the copies or some will get thrown away or we'll get sloppy you know
but uh uh many many times we have acted on it
yeah
because sometimes the cheaper brand is is better than a leading one you know
right
uh_huh
oh yeah
i remember that
i might have done that before on uh [mascara] and different kinds of makeup too
well you know i was at a a wedding reception once
and there was a girl there that was a chemist for one of the oh who is that uh famous makeup mary [kaye] i think it was
and she said well the truth of the matter was there was just only a handful of basic products you could make [cosmetics] out of anyway so they were nearly all pretty similar
right
for the packaging so uh
and that always stood out in my mind
and i really buy a lot of cheap uh [lipsticks] and i think they're just as pretty
and they last as long as the real expensive ones
right
yeah
that's what i have
oh that's right
i forgot i wonder who has to listen to all this garbage
i know this is only my second call
i just kept forgetting about
and then my phone wasn't working i'd get a call every now and then and i'd put my pin number in
and they would say this is incorrect then somebody suggested it was the phone sure enough we had a new phone and so then i had to switch phones
so i'm just trying to make some calls and catch up
how many have you made
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
oh
yeah
my daughter was on it last we didn't know it was only supposed to be my husband so any time anybody called we [punched] in the number and talked and i got the
and she talked to somebody several times from virginia
no
me either
i uh in fact i haven't gotten anyone over here
i'm in arlington
i usually get garland or mesquite or dallas
but it's kind of interesting isn't it
oh i wonder if it's really going to help them
oh i know
did you get a present or money last time
we we got uh my husband works for t i
so we couldn't get the money we had to choose something ooh neat
we got a camera and he got a real nice [attache] case which he needed anyway
right
do you all work for t i or you just heard about it
uh_huh
oh right
right
well i like them
i've heard people are allergic to them or something
i just read about that in the paper the other day
and uh i need to do that that's a great idea
well we have probably too many
we've got not enough to keep up
i mean too many to keep up with
we get uh forbes fortune newsweek southern living texas highways and national geographic i think i think i've got them all
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
it is
something like that
yeah
it is
yeah
right
you know it's not so bad if they're monthly publications but like newsweek which i really enjoy
um comes out every week
and so it's really hard to keep up with
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
yeah
well we get the newspaper on the weekends
and that seems to be enough
because we'll just turn on the news otherwise and see see what the latest is
uh_huh
oh is that right
well maybe that's what you ought to get them for christmas
uh_huh
oh really
like
they're not into that
yeah
right
right
yeah
um you know one thing i hate i don't know if this is really on the subject
but when they call you the different places call you
to sign up at this you know
and they try to give you this big bargain and and you're like no we already subscribe to enough magazines at the time
and so
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh
right
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
but um i find at times i have numerous magazines piled up and i'll just sit down you know one weekend or something and try to catch up on them
but i mean i you know i enjoy it
i guess you know um as far as comparing that to other media it's so much easier to listen to either the radio or to watch t v to listen i mean to know what's going on rather than to read an article in a magazine
right
right
exactly
yeah
that's true
the other thing is um some magazines
well i get a uh quite a few uh we've said that our our magazine subscriptions uh really add up to a strange uh bunch
but i get i get business week uh i get one called uh [dulcimer] [players'] news i get uh uh the washington post uh weekly magazine uh we get time uh
and then i get uh uh well i guess i don't get electronics magazines anymore
i get a a electronics uh news newspaper uh what about you
huh
oh yeah
yeah
well
yeah
yeah
yeah
that little bit of the of the [whys] behind what's happening and not just the the facts yeah
i uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
well i know that
yeah
and the category that i forgot is the the uh professional uh ones
i'm a member of uh i [tripoly] and uh uh a c m association for community materials i get uh three or four uh the magazine form things uh that way uh too
so uh i i don't know what the what the status is in general of of people reading magazines i i certainly uh do a lot of it
and and uh newspapers for that matter
but uh i've heard that the trend in reading in general and and then especially newspapers is down that people just
yeah
i think i think so
i i don't i haven't heard exactly how it's effecting the magazines maybe not quite as much
but uh i think that uh more and more people are just depending on the t v for what what news they do get
oh yeah
yeah
that could be
that could be because there's not there's not really an alternative uh uh source for that kind of kind of information
but uh
yeah
yeah
yeah
right
yeah
i i wonder if i wonder if that will uh uh make things different i've heard that uh read an article just last week about fax newspapers coming out and wonder if they'll do that with uh you know magazine kinds of things as well
i uh was it uh uh skip uh [bayless] from the times herald is doing a a fax sports column
uh
no
but uh it was interesting uh
and it they for a long time
they've been talking about uh you know that that moving away from paper magazines
uh i guess would it be included in that in terms of of uh computer access and stuff
but that that doesn't really seem to have caught on to the extent that they keep predicting uh
oh yes
i do uh i uh always enter those things that come through the mail
yeah
yeah
they do
so i have about everything
at some time or other
oh probably no more than say five at the time
well i like uh [mccalls] uh_huh
reader's digest redbook uh lets see good housekeeping
better homes and gardens
uh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i love to get recipes you know out of the magazine i cut them out
put them in a book
oh yeah
i also uh usually get a magazine about travel and uh not really
uh uh i i read them
and uh you know get ideas
but uh i don't travel that much
so but
yes
it really is
yeah
and oh
uh i like the uh beauty tips
and you know all that fashion stuff
no
not really
i i just read them
in some of the magazines that i get i don't really take a fashion magazine or anything
oh no
uh just what is in the regular magazines
but uh
yeah
that's true
right
that's right
you hear
you know i keep entering these contests taking all of these magazines thinking i will win that big
yeah
alright
oh and there are several others that i get through the mail
and uh you know they have contests like that
not as big as that one
but anyway i am really some kind of a sucker i guess for magazines
yeah
you can
yeah
that is true uh redbook i have always taken redbook for years and years and years
they use to have a novel in the back
yeah
but they quit doing that
and i sure miss it
yeah
it's similar to like [mccalls] or something like that
yeah
yeah
not that much different
yes
definitely
uh_huh
but they have some good short stories too
and uh but i really miss that novel it use to make uh take me oh say a sunday afternoon you know i would crawl up on the couch with my redbook and read the novel
yeah
i don't know why they did
i never did hear anything at all about it all of a sudden it was just gone
yeah
they use to be a big magazine and you know they cut the size down
and all
but uh
oh is that right
well i like them because i can read them at my convenience
and i don't like a lot of the ads i get
and especially those stupid cards that fall out of them all the time
oh i like the magazines like uh the home remodeling magazines like home or decorating and remodeling things like that because you can see what other people are doing with their houses and maybe you could do it in yours
yeah
we've learned how to do a lot of things on our own
uh no
not right now uh i haven't gotten any magazines that have shown me anything lately
what other kind of magazines do you like
um how many different kinds of magazines do you subscribe to
i used to get people
but it cost too much
so i had to quit taking it
uh sometimes they'd have good articles but a lot of it was kind of uh a lot of fluff and not a lot of substance
and it and like i said it costs a lot of money because i think they came every week or something like that
so it was a lot higher than a monthly magazine
my husband likes to
read sports and fishing magazines all the time
that's pretty boring to me
oh he gets one to uh fishes um
what's it called field and stream that's what he gets
but that's the only one
but he'd get more if he could
i don't think i've ever seen that one
i don't know if they still do it or not
you know what i really hate about magazines
is those smelly cards that have perfume or [cologne] well the ones are they're not scratch and sniff anymore
the the kind i'm talking about you open it up and the [fragrance] is just there
it's like a fold that's
glued shut but usually when you get the magazine the whole magazine smells like that [fragrance] and you can't get the smell out and it and sometimes it makes you have a headache because it's so strong
well they came in people and a lot of times if you buy like the fashion magazines the cosmopolitan or the [glamour] or [elle] those type have have them in it
i don't get them on a regular basis
but sometimes i've bought them
no
we we have two dogs
but no magazines come in uh regarding pets at all
i like [readers'] digest
but i usually borrow my parents' of that because they get it
so i didn't have to subscribe
well a little bit
but i like the they're interesting
and plus i like to read through the in the [anecdotes] and the jokes and things on those sometimes the book excerpts are good too but mostly i like the other articles
and i like the vocabulary section in that
and sometimes the real definition is something totally opposite of what you thought it was
sometimes i like the true to life stories
but sometimes they get too [melodramatic] it
right
now i think my favorite ones are parenting and car and driver
right
i'm a grandfather so
basically i'm getting interested in raising kids again
and i like all the articles that uh you know the letters to the editor and like the coupons that are in most of the magazines i get
and of course car and driver i've got two teenage boys that are in the market for a car
so i've been trying to teach them how to read for what's a good deal
and what's to to get as far as insurance costs et cetera
yes
they have uh they compare them
i use the car and driver i knew they mention other magazines and consumer reports is in our library
so i don't subscribe to it because of the cost
try to keep most of my magazines down
the problem i have with newsweek and time is i never had any time to read them
but that's the reason i get magazines because it's mostly current so if i really want to be kept up current i usually get a newspaper instead of those weekly magazines
but the consumer [report's] the [magazine's] the best way to go because the book comes out like once a year
but the repair records are good to compare it because i think right now with our budget range
we're comparing like [hyundais] and older model [datsuns] and toyotas and fords
so what
yeah
i just started getting those
i guess somebody put my name in the hat or something because i got my first one this month and said if you would like to continue please fill out this card and i haven't even had a chance to look through it yet
i just got it today
so that's your favorite one
so you're a home builder
do you rent a home
you own your home
okay
but you don't do any repairs on it
okay
we rent but we still get to you know do repairs and do improvements and take some of that off the rent
you run the [gambit] of trying different ones every year i get those american family publisher advertisements and that's when i make a comparison based on prices and stuff
and then of course for home repair anything like that
i wouldn't do that many projects anyway so if i did plan on building a door or fixing something i'd go to the library and start preparing for it
before i did that
and of course on the the magazines have no advantage on some of the home builder centers because they have [pamphlets] already made up and you can be talking to a customer service representative while you are looking at the pamphlet where with the magazine any questions you have you write to the editor and you have to wait for the answer
yeah
no
well reader's digest used to be good on coupons and all of a sudden they just kind of cut back on it
and for the price anymore
i don't think they're worth it
yeah
i stopped doing that a long time ago
oh
and i confess i've got one other magazine
t v guide
every week
i've got to have my t v guide
just doesn't do it justify when i read
my favorite section in that is cheers
and [jeers] they're pretty good
i sold them as a kid for fifteen cents each got four cents each more than i sold
uh not really
i don't really read any regularly uh in the past
i use to read some i use to read time all the time
but i guess i was just i don't know too much reading to do
so i stopped doing it
so
yeah
i do a lot of reading for work because i i don't know
i just have a lot of research literature to keep up on is the thing
so
yeah
i'm in computer science
uh_huh
right
it's just
the thing is i i don't know
i just have a tendency to want to read everything no matter what i what i buy
so it's kind of weird
yeah
i don't know
it's uh just a weird thing about me
so i try not to buy anything that i'm afraid of reading the whole thing
so
yeah
oh i don't know uh i i like reading up on the news uh and sometimes i like some science stuff
but not much actually so i mean because popular science type magazines aren't usually very uh i don't know
yeah
scientific so
how about you
what do you read
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
girl stuff huh well it's not girl stuff
it you know good stuff
that's all
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
i i find it interesting to read just about anything that's lying around
usually i mean it's always interesting stuff
well i don't know
like i had an old friend who use to read cosmopolitan all the time
and i thought it was the most ridiculous magazine
but it was just so interesting to find out i don't know about the culture of people who read cosmopolitan you know
right
uh_huh
uh_huh
right
uh_huh
right
uh not in particular no uh
do you you're an artist then
so do you read a lot of art magazines at all
or
hello
[marilyn] it's [angela]
how funny
push one
uh_huh
yes
uh soap opera digest is one
and uh two mainly
yeah
well it was a special thing i think it was like a free subscription
that you got to see if you'd like the magazine and you would renew it at the end of it
i never did
but but we take consumer
yeah
consumer digest
now we do like that one
it it has all different kinds of uh tips on on like appliances and t v and v c r and cars
just different things that you buy and and what the latest items are out and stuff
it it's real informative and then people magazine
uh_huh
yeah
i'd forgotten
yeah
they're i've i've bought it a couple of times that or one of the other ones like that one you know after reading the front page there will be something that just catches my eye and i'll go ahead and buy it
because sometimes like you said
not all of it is believable
and if you use your own judgment you can usually [decipher] what is
and what's not
do
yeah
yeah
i don't i don't buy
i don't buy them at the store either
i can't even remember last time i bought one at the grocery store in a long time
right
what don't you like about the magazines
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
i i don't like all the advertisements and some sometimes it seems like the magazines are full of more advertisements than they are anything else
i don't either
it's just you have to turn all those pages to get to finally to the story you were reading
when it's interrupted
but i like people magazine too
yeah
it is getting really expensive
yeah
or get somebody in the neighborhood to to do it
and then everybody pass it through
uh_huh
they didn't renew their subscription because of that
uh_huh
yeah
well i think we're just going to do like you said just take the ones at the [newsstand] that that look interesting from now on
because seventy five dollars for a magazine
that's just that's too much
that's
yeah
i don't think people have time to read them anymore
it's just usually the newspapers and and then they're off doing their own thing
weekends and stuff are pretty full
and that's about the only time
people seem to read on the weekends
because mainly i i'm like you i read books
more
uh_huh
uh i don't know
i i just i don't i'm not that interested in the magazines it you know other than like people or this consumer digest and the reason why we got that one was you know it has good informative things in there for things
you're going to be buying
at at one time or other
and you can save them
and it's got like tax tips in it and stuff like that maybe the the other one
there's one out
that's that has to do with with financial things like how to save money and and what bonds and [insurances] and stuff like that to buy that we've got we had a sample subscription to that one
and that one was was good too
it had a the the one that that uh was a sample one had an article in there about college saving for your children
and and what to do and what not to do and how much the uh projected cost was going to be
by the time like you know mine reached college age and stuff
and it's going to be pretty darn expensive
and and it was saying you know what to you know how you could go about putting yeah
yeah
like those e bonds there's something called an e bond that you can buy and it and it you don't have to pay taxes on it
and it's for the child
and then when they turn it in when it
well the magazines that i subscribe to are
i i'm i don't know if you're familiar with better homes and gardens
okay
and um sesame street okay
uh_huh
yeah
that's the big hit in this in this house
the sesame street because they have um you know the calendars and that kind of thing
but i take the recipes and the home gardening and the [furnishings] from better homes and gardens
so
uh_huh
uh once a month
and i yeah i read it all the way through more than once
and my husband i'll find him reading that too
so
and it's a free subscription my mother gave it to us
so
uh_huh
uh_huh
oh we we're always reading magazines because we we don't really subscribe to them
we usually buy them off the rack and we're always buying life and people
and um a few others
i can't really
but we're we're we're always reading magazines
in this house and oh and time
time
and uh so what we're always reading magazines in this house and um we saved all the time magazines from the um from when um we went to war
so we have all of those
uh_huh
well we
yeah
we saved them we thought maybe maybe they'd you know be useful
later on in life
when the boys grow up because we have
um no
the
we don't subscribe to those we just get them like maybe
yeah
uh_huh
maybe once every three months or something like that
but
uh_huh
uh_huh
uh_huh
yeah
uh my husband is the kind of person that [prefers] the um what do you call those the the sun
and um the star you know those
yeah
he he loves those
he'll read he'll read those all the time
no
i just
i don't i don't read them
yeah
he does all the time
and he'll sneak one home every once in a while in the grocery cart
but that's just i don't know
those are things i don't really i don't know
i don't really find interesting
i don't and he'll show me an article that i don't believe it anyway
so
that's what he does
he'll stand in line and just laugh
yeah
yeah
well he he loves all of those yeah
so those are his kind of great role model for the kids
i guess
uh_huh
yeah
uh_huh
yeah
we usually just get get the newspaper on weekends because we really don't have time during the week
but we usually get friday's [saturday's] and sunday's and that's really about it
but uh we read like the dallas life magazine you know in there and those kind of pretty interesting
so i mean just talking to you
i i i realize how much we read i didn't really realize that that's just amazing
we do now that i think about it
we do read a lot
so
oh really
oh
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
that's a good idea
yeah
i've only done it once
but
yeah
oh
well the only one i get right now is the journal and i'm really kind of tired of it because it comes out on the [newsstand] before i ever get it
so i don't think i'm going to subscribe to it anymore
so
uh_huh
oh that's a lot
i like redbook i'm i never would have time to read all those magazines most of the time when i grab one i'm at the airport
i do i travel a lot
and i just usually will do that you know grab one then
and that's about the only time i read them
so
sometimes i'll pick one up because it looks good
and i don't even get to see it
so
uh_huh
yeah
yeah
well reader's digest is always a good magazine
so it's great
it's got lots of different things in
but as far as the articles go
i just find we go round and round on the same things an awful lot
so i'm just sort of tired of that
and i don't know
yeah
and i prefer to read a book i really do
i like to do that better
and i don't know
i'm sorry
oh yeah
i'm a nurse
and and i work float
and so i work lots of days and lots of hours and different times
and so
yeah
i do
well i read about one page and then i'm asleep
so i don't get very far at night that way
and i guess with the holidays and all
i haven't even picked up a book or a magazine in about a month
but oh does he really
oh
yeah
yeah
that's good
yeah
so that gives you a little more time to do that
yeah
i i have an application in with american right now for flight [attendant] actually
so that's what i would like to do
yeah
well i i was married to someone who worked for american and i miss having my flight privileges
uh_huh
and and it's just really you know i've got friends all over the world
so if i ever want to see them again
i need to get me a job at the airlines
and i've always wanted to fly so with my nursing background i'm hoping that i will be able to
so we'll see
but american's the best
so trying to hold out for that
oh really
yeah
he'll be okay
yeah
yeah
i've heard that they were expecting some layoffs
but i don't know
no
never no
i don't even have time to go to lunch
we grab lunch on the floor
we bring our lunch
and we spend ten minutes where we can
and we're busy most all the time there are days when you know we can kick back
but then we sort of visit
you know that kind of thing
so i'm at presbyterian in dallas
probably
children's medical
yeah
yeah
how did he do
that's good
yeah
well i float i go to different hospitals
i work for agencies besides presbyterian so it it stays pretty interesting that way
different places at different times
and i keep learning then
uh_huh
right
it's always been one of my favorites
and i first turn to can this marriage be saved
i love that column and
uh_huh
okay  
i guess tonight's subject is uh woodworking  
do you uh  
well kind of mainly the woodworking i've done lately is uh made like uh for example a little [nativity] scene   uh not the uh the whole figurines and so forth but mainly the stable put some shelves in and and some odd stuff around the house  
and so i i enjoy doing a little bit of woodworking  
and i do it out of hobby more than uh you know something i have to do  
how about yourself  
uh_huh  
well i'll have to come and see them  
that sounds like a good idea  
i you know  
and that's that is right  
it is out of necessity  
because lot of the things that uh well we can't be able to afford  
but also i i sometimes think that uh i enjoy doing that  
and i like to get out and and uh to work with my hands  
and uh sounds like you got some real nice tools too  
do you think you would be able to do some more if you had more tools and different tools  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh a entertainment type center  
oh  
right  
right  
right  
right  
or yes  
i  
yeah  
i'm   aware of that  
and also with a router you can uh make ornamental [facings] too better than a just straight wood edge   and   uh   and uh [casings] and so forth that are that are real nice  
so that's that's good  
that's good  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
yeah  
yeah  
well and with a radial arm saw if you do have a a big piece of wood that you need to rip like you say or cut you wouldn't be able to do that  
uh but uh yeah  
a table saw does take a lot of time excuse me a lot of space and is a pretty big investment  
and  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
no  
they don't have basements  
well i'm from up north also  
and and uh no  
there's no basements down here  
and it's kind of uh hard to get uh shop space unless you have a dedicated shop or a dedicated room   for that  
yeah  
lot of the equipment too that i've i've used in the past uh i you know i've used in school  
and uh i would  
i don't know  
i'd i'd kind of like to to look at equipment like a lathe or like you say a table saw and some of those things that would make uh some pretty nice uh pieces of uh well wood for for different things for tables for for uh chairs for you know [decks] and so forth  
so   i don't know  
i i just enjoy woodworking  
and i think the the main thing is like you say it's a it's a good out  
it's an opportunity to get out and [relieve] some of the pressure that you feel day to day  
and it's a great stress stress [reliever]  
yes  
i have in school i have  
and i've made uh uh different things uh uh tables for chairs  
and i've made uh bowls  
and uh and uh  
what   kind of woodworking do you do  
uh_huh  
uh well i like to think of it as a hobby but i i guess also partly out of necessity just repairing things around the house  
uh a few years ago uh we needed uh they needed some book shelves  
and i kind of drew up some simple plans to make some book shelves  
and uh it actually worked pretty well  
and over the years i've i've refined those plans  
i got myself a router  
and i'm i'm very good at making book shelves  
it's it's also a way of [relieving] stress  
my wife kind of laughs   at me that anytime i get stressed out i just go out in the garage and we've got more book shelves  
uh well yeah  
i mean little by little i i started out with just basic hand tools and kind of added on to things  
uh gotten a a good belt [sander]  
and and the router uh helps a lot because you can make better joints with a router  
the latest project that i've been working on and this has been kind of sitting here for a few months is a a cabinet to to put a t v in  
right  
and it that's works well because you can design it to to suit whatever equipment you have  
so i   designed a space just the right size for the t v and then the the v c r and shelves on the side for my stereo equipment  
and uh that's worked pretty well  
uh with uh with the router you can make nice uh  
i guess [dado] joints is what it's called  
uh   and it's uh  
that's right  
that's right  
so  
but what i need next is a good table saw  
and i i debate whether it's better to get a uh just a straight table saw or to get one of these uh rotary arm saws  
radial arm saw is i guess what they're called  
uh it seems to me the radial arm saw is is better  
well it it takes up less room  
i mean you you set the wood down  
and you move the saw  
whereas if you're ripping wood you're probably better off with a a table saw  
yeah  
uh that that's partly my problem now  
i don't have room for this  
i uh i  
where uh where we lived before up north uh   basements were were common  
and   i used to put all the stuff in my basement  
but   not so here in texas  
yeah  
uh_huh  
have you ever used a lathe  
okay  
do you uh do any woodworking  
oh um what do you do  
for a hobby or for  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
well i'm not the one that cuts them out  
my husband cuts them out  
but uh he likes using the little band saws and jig saws   more than the stroll saw because the stroll saw is is a lot slower  
and then uh he's got a router  
but now he wants a [plunge] router  
but anyhow he cuts them out  
and then i i took a tole   painting class   to learn how to paint them right you know  
and what we want to do is you know make them and then maybe take them to these craft shows or   flea market things and and see if we can sell some of them  
but uh i really like it so far  
and then my neighbor had a little doll made out of wood  
so i took a pattern off of that  
and then it's just a wooden doll with a painted face  
and then you you make the dress for it  
and you drill holes around the top of the head  
and you you stick in   uh like rope   and tie ribbons around it  
it looked really cute you know  
so i've got a couple of those started  
yeah  
and then uh but as far as wood work that's all we've been doing right now  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
what do you do  
i wonder how you  
you just they buy them from you  
or you just given them to them on [consignment] or something  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
um i see  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh these little things are so cute though you know  
i  
i went through some of the books down here at the craft shop you know  
and uh there's a lots of little things you can get to cut out  
in fact i just sent to shop smith   back in ohio for a rocking horse pattern  
yeah  
we well   gene's got one of those too  
yeah  
so anyhow  
yeah  
well uh he's retired now  
and uh i'm kind of semi retired  
my company went bankruptcy  
so i'm drawing my pension from them  
but i'm still looking for a part time   job you know  
but uh he has all day long that   he can you know work on this stuff and do   do cut outs like that   you know  
and he's got a lot a lot of tools  
so   it's just it's just getting started you know  
but um these little wooden things they seem to sell really good  
um i know a lot of people that have gotten them you know  
my next door neighbor every time she sees something she thinks it's so cute she wants to buy it you know  
so i'm just hoping that you know that we can get some cut out and painted you know before summer starts   because we don't want to have garage sales or anything like that   in the winter time you know  
but uh  
it seems it seems like they go real good you know  
i mean the country anyhow out here  
and i live out in the valley  
and country seems to be the in thing out here   you know  
everybody wants little country pieces  
so anything that looks like it might be country is what they want you know  
yeah  
and uh this little rabbit that i made in uh tole painting class you know is like a welcome  
it's got a it's going to have little wooden hearts holding it in its hands   and then welcome written on those little wooden hearts  
and  
okay  
i do  
and i really love it um  
uh_huh  
i do it for a hobby  
and i have my own equipment  
and i have a jig saw and a scroll saw and uh in the process of getting a router  
and so i like to cut out my wood and then tole paint on the items that i cut out  
what kind of things do you like to do with wood  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
yeah  
oh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
yes  
oh that is fun  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
the [twine]  
yeah  
those are so cute  
they are really cute  
oh that is that sounds really fun  
well they have a really fancy boutique out here in ogden utah  
and i just got back from that today  
so if you could get your projects into [boutiques] oh they are wonderful  
you could make a lot of money from those  
uh apparently  
like that boutique um they take oh what was it twenty percent of the sell price  
you would put your sell price  
uh and then they would take twenty percent off of that   at the counter  
and so then at the end of the boutique which usually runs for a week then they give you what you earned  
so you have to decide what your price is going to be   and then up it twenty percent so you can get what you need out of it  
so if the customers are willing to pay it then you get a profit  
they are  
i i have seen those  
those are [darling]  
uh_huh  
oh  
oh that's what i want is a shop smith  
that's my  
oh does he  
oh that's my ultimate dream  
oh you're lucky  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
how fun  
oh how nice  
i'm jealous  
yes  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
uh_huh  
no  
uh_huh  
well how is the market for things like that in california  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
uh_huh  
oh  
they just snap it right up huh  
