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Re: CEDA Points: The Root of All Evil
I understand the CEDA community has made an effort to remedy this by limiting
the number of times one can be in final round in a lower division before they
must move on to another (I think its three times).
That is correct. There is that rule.
Aha, this weekend in San Diego someone illustrated how anything as important
as limiting points can be circumvented. It is reported (and it doesn't
really matter if its true, because the circumvention mechanism is still
available and the motive to get points is still overpowering) that a coach
forfeited a team in semifinals so they could retain their lesser division
eligibility for a tournament where they might get more CEDA points.
It doesn't matter if it's true??? Really. So Tom thinks that as long as it's
done in the name of "education", he can make unsubstantiated accusations and
take the moral high ground on an issue that doesn't really concern him. I
fail to see the education in that.
NOW THAT'S EDUCATION!!!
Nice rhetoric, but very little substance. Would Tom care to elaborate on how
much education was lost by not debating in a single round (there is no
guarentee there would have been two more). Would Tom prefer that we just
didn't bother to go to tournaments that didn't have the points necessary.
Where would be the education in that?
Not that I think Tom deserves an explanation (it would have been very easy to
find out the facts), but just so the record is set straight.
FACT #1 - Yes, we have discussed the possibility of forfeiting rounds in
order to preserve eligibility (I will discuss the reasoning below).
FACT #2 - We also discussed it at Fresno (which ALSO only went to quarters),
which a quick glance at the tournament results will show we didn't do it.
FACT #3 - Our van had some very serious problems which caused me to miss
several rounds this weekend. Tom need only ask Ted Prosise or Matt Taylor to
check this out. In fact, 2 of the problems could not be fixed and we were
forced to drive an unsafe van back to Bakersfield (again, this can be
attested to by debaters who had to ride in that hazzard).
FACT #4 - The decision to forfeit the next round was made so that we could
limp our van back to Bakersfield before it got dark. In light of recent
events, I should think that the safety of the students would take precedence
over "educaton". I certainly hope Tom agrees.
Would we have forfeited the round absent the van troubles? I can't say for
sure. The team and I would have discussed it, and we would have come to a
decision based on what is best for US, not Tom.
FACT #5 - Had we decided to forfeit the round for the sake of CEDA points, I
would most definitely have asked the CEU coach for a 2-1 split in the
forfeited round. The fact is, I never asked for any such split since the
reason for leaving was the van.
The first thing here is that there is much about education that Tom may not
realize. As one of the debaters in question was at his 2nd tournament doing
policy type debate (he did only L/D in HS), it was decided that it would be
best for them to not have to be in open at major tournaments like GSL. Do
points play a part in this? Yes. Are they the whole reason? Of course not.
There are other "educational" reasons for the decision.
Next, Tom has NO idea of the amount of things we do at JC's to help out the
students. If Tom would care to ask around, he would find out that Bakersfield
College has a VERY good record of placing it's debaters on major debate
squads, and usually on scholarship. THAT is what I consider to be my primary
pupose in this job. How I achieve this goal is between my Director, my
school, CEDA, and my conscience. I sleep very well at night thank you. In
fact, I think the students get MUCH more education by debating at a major
program than debating an extra elim round at a tournament. The decision to
let the debaters showcase themselves at major tournaments is part of the
grand scheme, and one that we are capable of making without Tom's help.
Additionally, there are a great many things that coaches do that are not
necessarily in the interest of education. Coaches sometimes keep kids
debating more than 4 years, making their debate career more important than
education. This, and many other things brings me to the conclusion that, s/he
who is without sin should cast the first stone (paraphrase from the Bible).
Are you without sin, Tom?
Do I have a point? Well, as I suggested for many years when we were doing
CEDA, if you want to reward programs for Novice and/or JV competition, why
not have a separate system for them.
I have been an advocate of the same thing for many years. In fact, I also
favored a 3-2-1 system for CEDA points. Education goes much deeper than a few
Archive created by Jonathan Stanton (email@example.com)
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