low-point wins (fwd)

[zab@garnet.berkeley.edu]

Two things I think you've overlooked in your comments about speaker points:

1) Form vs. substance.  I think that in debate most judges and competitors
	attempt to separate form and substance, rewarding form with speaker
	points and substance with the ballot.  Most of the hypothetical 
	situations justifying low-point wins center around this, I think.
	In other words, I would give a low-point win to a team that put
	together winning substance cloaked in terrible form.  You can fill
	in the remaining details.

2) Winning isn't normative.  Many of your posts describe the winning team as
	somehow *deserving* of high speaks (why?  a reward?) and judges 
	not having the courage to hand out the great points to those teams.
	Winning the ballot is a small part of debate; can you accept that
	speaker points simply reflect another part?

zack

ps: please keep telling Mahoney he's on crack!  Someone's gotta whip him
	into shape... where are those @$#%%! power rankings?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 02:26:46 CST
From:jdotson@CCTR.UMKC.EDU
To: Issues concerning CEDA Debate <CEDA-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: low-point wins

i don't think my beliefs on low point wins are naive nor do i think judging is
an easy thing.  i think there is alot of pressure put on judges to do the right
thing and vote for the right thing and justify every single aspect of a
decision.  this is precisely why i think many judges use high points as a
buffer between them and a losing team.  i only see two real justifications for
low point wins:
1.  a team is extremely rude to other debaters, observers or critics in the
room or in some manner very offensive
2.  an extremely close break round that high points may still allow them to
clear. although i don't fell completely good about this rationale, i think it
still facilitates the idea of up and coming teams getting a shot at things.

just my thoughts
joanna dotson
jdotson@cctr.umkc.edu

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