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Re: Citeable ?

I think Todd Wachtel has brought up a very important point that our
community needs to address now.  And, I am afraid that currently the
community as a whole is not well set up to discuss this.

The issue to which I am refering is what constitutes "citeable" evidence? 
Already many of us use electronic sources for evidence (NexiS/lEXIs, AOL,
Dialogue, etc.).  But, I think most people only use these sources to get
evidence that they (at least hypothetically) could get in paper form at a
library.  What is about to (actually already has) clouded the distinction
is Cornell's favorite Cybercom.  Many journals that I use for academic
purposes exist only in electronic form.  I think that these journals fit
the highest ideals for evidence that our founding fore parents had in mind,
as they are refeered academic sources.  But, there is nothing stopping, and
indeed this is already the case, ANYONE from starting their own electronic
publications.

Thus, the question becomes where does one draw the line for what is
acceptable evidence.  If printed sources in the public domain are fine, and
if printed sources from the public domain which can be retrieved
electronically are fine, why aren't electronic sources, which do not exist
in print, fine if they are public domain?  Furthermore, what does public
domain mean anyway?

(The reason that I focus on the term "public domain" is that is the term
the CEDA constitution uses to describe ethical evidence.  I would post the
entire clause, but I can't find our constitution right now -- if someone
else has one handy that would be nice -- but, if for the time being you
will trust me that no other wording seems to limit where evidence can come
from as Jonathan Stanton and I had a long discussion on this over the
summer and were very disappointed with the constitution.)

I would like to see a discussion as well as a statement of opinions on this
list about this issue.  To facilitate this I would like to ask the
following questions to see what people think:

First, should evidence obtained electronically be used at all?

Second, should debaters go out of their way to indicate that evidence is
from a non-traditional source?

Third, what constitutes public domain?  I do not think that the
constitution is using any specific legal interpretation (though if it is
this would be good information to post to the list).  Instead, my feeling
is that the intent was merely that anyone could get the evidence if they
were willing to do the work.  (In otherwords, private correspondence is not
acceptably, but a local newspaper is.)

Fourth, does the source need to be archived?  (I hear the evidence, get the
cite, and can track it down.)  If so, for how long?  (Already, people are
using evidence from newswires which may be -- if they are not on Nexis or
some other permanent archive -- almost impossible for anyone to track down
after a short period of time.)

Fifth, how widely available (how public) does the information need to be? 
For example, where do you draw the line:  a national newspaper (the New
York Times), a regional newspaper (The Syracuse Herald American -- or
whatever it is), a city newspaper (The Ithaca Journal), a campus newspaper
(The Cornell Daily Sun), a department newspaper (The Cornell Comunique --
or whatever it is)?

Sixth, how do you cite electronic information?  (Many have noticed that
page numbers quickly become problematic -- but what about everything else? 
Do I give an internet IP address -- whatever that is -- for the gopher hole
where I found it? or what?)


I would also like people to comment on the following types of electronic
evidence that I could cut right now:

The New Republic:  obtained from "The Electronic Newstand" via gopher. 
Presumably this is the identical magazine that is available on the
newsstand only without pictures and graphics.  These are archived for
several months, and presumably are available through libraries for much
longer.

UPI Newswires:  obtained from Clari.News on the Usenet.  Presumably the
same news stories that go out to all UPI newspapers.  These remain availble
electronically for anywhere from a week to a day, although I suppose that
there is some way to get them through traditional library resources.

Interpersonal Computing and Technology EJournal:  obtained from
LISTSERV@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU (listserv's can also be used very
effectively to produce tightly edited journals).  This is a peer reviewed,
scholarly journal which probably carries more "traditional worth" than most
normally used sources.  The ICTJ is permanently archived thru it's
listserv.  BUT, if the group at Georgetown was to lose funding this archive
could disappear and it is not clear that this journal would be otherwise
easily available.

Postings to Soc.Feminism:  obtained via the Usenet.  This is a moderated
discussion group on feminism (with nothing to do with socialism, the soc
refers to its usenet category) -- which means that, while anyone can post
to it, only postings the moderaters believe to be worthwhile are accepted
and redistributed.  The postings to the group remain for a couple of weeks
on the Usenet, and some individuals maintain publicly available archives --
but accessing these archives is tricky and takes a level of computer
sophistication obviously not common in our community (or at least at
Rochester).  Again, these archives are not necessarily permanent like most
library resources.

Postings to CEDA-L:  obtained via this listserv.  This is an unmoderated
list with a bunch of obvious bozos posting instead of doing research or
school work.  Some would argue that they may know more about the activity
which they are discussing than people who actually take time to publish in
journals like the CEDA Yearbook, while others would state that they are the
unwashed masses.  These postings should soon be archived and easily
available to anyone SUBSCRIBED to the list.  But, again, this archive
exists at the pleasure of someone at Cornell to maintain it.


I think that this should be enough to get a discussion started.  The reason
that I think this issue is so important is that at Cornell we have been
tempted to start using many of the electric sources available over the Net
which are not necessarily available otherwise.  After much thought (or
perhaps little thought) we may start doing this soon.  And, knowing that
Cornell is rarely the trend setters, I am willing to bet that many other
schools have or will be making the same choices.  Looking forward to
everyone (except the chud's, whatever that is) comments.  (Or, is it a
chud...)

Chat,

--Jamey
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