[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
[Date Index] [Thread Index] [Author Index]
Return to main CEDA-L Archive Page

The Solvency Schtick



The Solvency Problem:  
                                   Joe's Definition:  A wanky 
procedural argument that says if I don't have a
                                   card that says specifically plan 
will solve then I lose.  Something akin to a
                                   stock-issue/you lose argument.  
Means I can't even if I don't solve but turn
                                   a disad on perception level or 
impact level or anything.

                                   Jim's Definition: You gotta have a 
card that says you'll solve; no! wait! let me
                                   shift, you gotta have a card that 
says one part of plan could solve, not ! wait!
                                   you gotta have a card that proves 
you're topical.  No! Wait, err...  what the hell
                                   is the 'solvency problem' besides 
the lack of a clear definition jim?  Is it a
                                   procedural issue (my main concern) 
or just a solvency press (what it should be
                                   in my opinion).

The problem with the solvency problem:
  
                                   First - inductive logic is an ok 
thing.  If I have cards that say X is a bad thing
                                   and plan repeals X then there is a 
strong possibility I will stop the harms that
                                   X is supposed to cause.  Even if I 
_DON'T_ have a card that says "we should
                                   repeal X' there is _NO_ reason I 
can't make that logical leap.  However, you are
                                   more than welcome to argue about 
whether or not the harms are reversible, but
                                   that's not a PROCEDURAL argument, 
and shouldn't be.  A mitigator, a press, a 
                                   pimp, two symbols on my flow, 
whatever - but there's no logical justification for it
                                   being a voting issue.

                                   Second - if not having solvency 
means you procedurally lose the round then
                                   teams could never kick out of 
solvency and go for disad turns.  Secondly,
                                   even if my solvency cards SUCK in 
the 1AC there's no reason I _have_ to prove
                                   solvency to win a round _IF_ I can 
find _OTHER WAYS_ to accrue advantages.
                                   I can still turn a disad, which 
still makes implementation of plan a good thing, 
                                   which still justifies my 
parametric and means I win.

                                   Third - there's no brightline as 
to how specific your solvency advocates have to
                                    be.  Jim says it doesn't have to 
be word for word, but what DOES it have to be?
                                    This abiguity alone should 
prevent it from being a procedural issue.  Sounds like
                                    and easy way out for lazy judges 
type of argument.

                                   Fourth - it's reciprocal.  If 
reversibility of harms, advocate for the logical chain of
                                   events, and an advocate making 
SPECIFIC application of a program to a target
                                   are logically correct ways to 
prove an argument true than they apply equally to
                                   negative disads.  You're right, I 
can pimp the links - but the negative can also
                                   pimp my solvency.  If the negative 
wants to make solvency a procedural, then
                                   those same standards apply to 
negative links, ad infinitum.  And I'll betchya I'm
                                   going to have solvency advocates 
who come a lot closer to meeting the burdens
                                   the negative sets up than the 
negative's own disads will.

                                   Fifth - I have no idea where scott 
titsworth thinks he's going with phrases in his
                                   five or six two-sentence long 
posts saying "and you can't perm without a card
                                   under this system' but no one 
listens to him anyway  :)

                                  Sixth - counter-advocates can still 
be found.  There will still be advocates who
                                  says the status quo is NOT bad or 
that X is not the cause of harms.  It is a logical
                                  fallacy to state that just because 
Team Affirmative _doesn't_ have a card that
                                  says "we should do X to solve for 
harm Y"  that cards do _not_ exist that say 
                                  "X is not the cause of harm Y" or 
that "harm Y is not a harm" or
                                  "harm Y does not exist".  

                                 Seventh - back to reciprocal burden. 
 Why can't I, as an affirmative, have the
                                 expectation of finding a COUNTER-
ADVOCATE for your disad?  If having a 
                                 counter-advocate is _THE_ criteria 
for the solvency problem then negative's
                                 who aren't running anything but 
Rifkin cards are just hosed.

                                 Eighth - the black footed ferret, 
although a bit rambunctious at times, really can
                                 make a great pet.

Joe Boyle
            


Archive created by Jonathan Stanton (jonathan@cs.jhu.edu)
Return to main CEDA-L Archive Page