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Re: your mail

Gotta jump in on this one!

One area within our profession that puts in hours about equal to forensics
is theatre.  The hours needed to set up and run a show are huge! So how do
Theatre prof's get tenure?  I don't knkow the specifice at UNC but at
several schools that I have worked at a deal has been set up where a play
production counts towards publication.  Each school has its own deal but
it works something like this.  Directing a play = one publication, having
a significant role, ie lighting director , costumer etc. counts for some
fraction of a publication.  At these same instititutions, debate coach
counts for nada, zip, zero.  

It seems like the document that Dr. Balthrup points to could be used to
work out a deal like many of our theatre friends have worked out if you
have a sympatheic chair and dean and provost and president.  All those
with this depth of support please raise your hand...yeah thats what I
thought.

Mike
CC Debate

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 mgremillion@selu.edu wrote:

> 25 Jun 1997 12:20:02 CDT@
> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:47:42 -0500 (CDT)
> Subject: Re: BAlthrop's Comments on Coaching
> To: CEDA-L@Cornell.edu
> Message-id: <01IKHLGX1GV690OCVL@selu.edu>
> Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
> 
> A couple things to get out of the way: First, I have a lot of respect for
> Dr. Balthrop and his work in forensics. Second, I am doing just fine in
> my position as a Director of Forensics. My publications are enough to justify
> tenure and my pay is pretty good. So what is my beef?
> 	Well, first the publish or perish world created by universities does nedneed some serious re-evaluation. Counting publications are easy ways to 
> evaluate the work of professors. I will certainly jump through the hoops to
> meet that requirement. However, I still feel that Directors of Forensics are
> doing "double-duty" to meet those standards of publication. Dr. Balthrop is
> quite correct that it is the nature of the tenure and promotion process to
> support those who get published. But I think he underestimates the time
> trade-off inherent in active forensic coaching.
> 	A researcher (I've been one, really) spends all of her time and 
> effort producing a product for publication. I've pulled the 72 hour/ 20
> pots of coffee stints to finish a project for publication. I know that 
> many of my colleagues have done the same. But that entire weekend is
> effort expended toward publication of a journal article or a book. An
> active debate coach (Been that too) must hop in a van on Thursday afternoon,
> drive all night, then judge rounds all weekend long, then drive back home
> early Monday or Tuesday morning. The result? Maybe a trophy if your kids
> did not drop "T" in the final round. While that is nice, all of that time,
> anywhere from 72 to 140 hours for just ONE WEEKEND, does not lead to publicationSo, while it serves some educational and competitive purpose, actively coaching
> will not support a person's publication aspirations. In order for me to
> compete with others in my field (rhetoric), I must therefore pull a double-shiftI must not only travel on theweekends, but then spend my nights working on 
> my publications. If, on the other hand, I simply do research I would recieve just as much (probably more) points toward tenure than coaching and publishing.
> The time trade-off between the two is is simply too much. 
> 	Pay--The same issue of hours devoted to coaching commensurate with
> pay is the same as above. Debate coaches sacrifice their weeks and weekends
> for the same pay a someone who puts in ONLY 60 hours a week. I say only because
> many coaches spend 30 hours a week meeting their teaching responsibilities,
> 8 to 15hours DRIVING to a tournament, 72 hours at the tournament, and then another 8 to 15 hours driving back. Dr. Balthrop, when am I supposed to do the research? What other professors put in this much time? Not Cancer researchers, but
> Professors in the field of Communication, which put in this much time? 
> 	Like I said at the beginning of this post, I am in no trouble
> whatsoever as far as tenure and promotion. However, I believe I echo many
> people's complaint that coaching does place a professor in an untenable
> situation. Many of our most brilliant scholars in the field of Communication
> are former debate coaches. But that is the rub. They are FORMER debate coaches.
> They had to quit forensics in order to really progress in theri field. 
> 	Doin' fine in Louisiana, but thinkin' about the future.
> Scott M. Elliott, Ph.D.
>
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