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Re: Tuna on ASEAN as the Agent of Action

Tuna says:
>Everybody who is tired of debating the same stuff over and over again in a
>continuous repetition of past practice needs to raise their hand and say so.

I, for one, am tired of the same old attempts to paint 
those who aren't embracing a particular change as too 
conservative or as endorsing the BAD elements of the 
"past practice."

This is irresponsible and fallacious.

Some (like Jim) are just concerned about research.
Heck, some people may even want the USFG for the very 
reasons you don't want it.  They may like critiquing
and discussing that hegemony.  Very educational.  It
can be done on the Aff, too.  Maybe some teams see a lot
of good ways to change the US's evil influence in SEA.
So attempting to label those who don't embrace Tuna's
magic agent as hegemonic is insulting.


Tuna again:
>Nice to base your conclusion on chauvinistic faith. I guess I'll have to dump
>a list of article cites here to persuade you. I'll do my best at this busy
>time.

Chauvinism?  Pretty serious accusation.  The evidence of that
accusation would need that list (and a whole lot more; by
no means is the list enough).  You conveniently are too busy
to provide the list.  Hmmmmmm, what should you do?  Post 
the accusation based on phantom evidence?  Do you get to
attack people for free when you're too *busy* to post the goods
to back it up?  Nonsense.  In my book, if you're too busy to
post the list, you're too busy to throw around careless 
accusations.  Or do you get to accuse now and provide the
evidence later, at some more convenient time?

I don't think Jim was chauvinistic in his pessimism about 
poor libraries.  

============================

My take on ASEAN is that it seems to be a suitable agent, one
that is at least active in Internation Relations.  The UN 
agent was pleasant.  I like the complexities and solvency
issues that international organizations present.  My concerns 
about ASEAN as the agent in the resolution are three:

1.  In what spheres does ASEAN act?  Trade, International Relations,
    what else?  Human rights?  Labor reform?  What limits would
    ASEAN supply?

2.  Would the resolution be worded so that Aff fiat can make 
    ASEAN cohere on a given issue to act?  (Hopefully not - 
    our education about SEA issues would be shortchanged
    if the Affs were just "ASEAN bans abuses of member nation x.")

3.  Has anyone found out what "normal means" for ASEAN means?
    How fast can they act?  With what consensus?  How forcefully?
    (My ignorant assumption is that ASEAN wouldn't field a 
    military....right?)


Zack
Archive created by Jonathan Stanton (jonathan@cs.jhu.edu)
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