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Re: SSDS: Ans. Halverson pt. 2
While researching on the net, I got this in the middle of finding something
At 01:28 AM 7/18/97 CST, you wrote:
>1) Halverson said "If you work, you win. Simple enough. Easy concept
>to understand, I think."
>Response: Grant that there is a relationship between working and winning,
>among other factors. I'm not denying that, I'm arguing that winning is not
>the ultimate priority. Rather, we believe that education should be
>Once again, you've overlooked education.
Wrong-o. Keep on the thread better next time. Here's the first thing I
posted on the 14th:
>I would like to investigate this claim. Membership is dropping...hmmm???
>Maybe Dr. Simerly or someone could shed some light on this argument. The
>debate does have a place beyond the national championship; you're right.
>But I think beyond Nationals the impact of debate is personal. It's about
>the friendships that you've made. The skills and things you have learned.
>It is about one of the best activities on the planet. It has a way of
>changing a person's thinking and lifestyle for the better. Besides that
>what does "caring about debate beyond Nationals" mean. Maybe I had a flawed
>interpretation of debate, but last time I talked to someone I really
>admire, Carson Brackney, he had a similar feeling about debate.
>2) Halverson said "Whether or not you get walk-on student is a measure of
>how much you want to succeed, in other words, how hard you work."
>Response: Sounds like an assertion of someone who is not in the trenches
>promoting debate to _true_ novices, in an attempt to expand the activity.
>I've personally had 3 people in just the last 5 days decide not to compete
>because of the breadth of the topic. I see this as a loss (they explicitly
>said they would debate next year, provided that they liked the topic better).
Not in the trenches, huh? Ask Derby High School if I wasn't in the trenches
for them all year last year. Even though I quit at the beginning of first
semster last year, I did everything in my power to expand the activity
around here. I coached at my alta mater. I helped them construct arguments,
cut cards, and do all of the usual things. I judge a lot of rounds on the
high school topic and suggested how every debater I judged could get
better. Granted, sometimes my job prohibited me from doing some things, but
that's all I did was promote debate, esp. collegiate debate, to all of the
high schoolers that debate around here. I promoted the activity to true
>3) Halverson said "you misquoted me." (regarding the quote "me to defend
>or answer an attack on someone defending CEDA", after which I began referring
>to him as the Great Defender.
>Response: Anyone, including Halverson, can check the archive for his last
>on the 17th of July and verify the accuracy of the quote. But this point
>doesn't really matter anyway.
I said the following:
>Last thing I'm going to say about this, unless something interesting causes
>me to defend or answer an attack on someone defending CEDA.
There it is. I answered this in the previous post.
>4) Halverson said "If you're going to leave, I'm not holding you here. That's
>all I'm saying. Leave."
>Response: Sounds like your borrowing lines from your personal relationships,
>believe me I have no wish for you to hold me. But to the serious point,
>failing to totally realize the implications of the SSDS. As an open-minded
>organization, it is philisophically possible for us to remain associated
>with CEDA/NDT. It is the hostility and resistance to change of individuals
>like Mr. Halverson that drives us away, as we represent not only ourselves,
>but the potential of debate. We, the SSDS are moving for change, whether
>the revolution changes CEDA/NDT or creates a new organization, change will
Actually, I took that line from a Martin Lawrence comedy routine, but
that's besides the point. I'm not driving anyone away. I'm just indicating
that the "revolution" IMHO will not succeed. That's all. I know that
everyone I've been associated w/in the debate community is always up for
change. From the dinosaurs to debaters now participating in the activity,
everyone I know can deal w/reasonable and feasible change.
>5) Halverson said "If anyone is being closed minded, it is those who composed
>the heart of the "revolution." They are the ones being exclusionist by
segmenting debate and not taking every >possible avenue for reform
available until they
>Response: Explicitly, we've repeatedly encouraged participation of all
>including established debators, teams, struggling programs, and those who
>haven't yet experienced the activity. As opposed to posts such as Halverson's
>which encourage us to either conform or get the hell out. Decide for yourself
>which is exclusionist.
Read Skarb's post. That should say enough. You're misunderstanding me
again. I said it before and I'll say it again. Get out if that is your
choice. You evidently know how I feel. Even your own founder says that you
should take this action in the following passage from the 14th:
>However, we really can't blow up CEDA. No, my brothers and sisters of THE
CAUSE, we cannot resort to >violent overthrow or assasination. Its not cost
effective and the government,
>THE BIG MAN, would clamp down on us. What we can do is create a critical mass
>of students and programs to commit to an alternative topic. My Revisionist
Histroy of CEDA 101 textbook >says that this is how CEDA started. A few
>"bullshit" and struck out on their own.
Scott is saying get out now if you're with him. Read it. That's what the
about passage says. That's the only thing I'm articulating. I don't claim
to be a "Great Defender" for the Cross Examination Debate Association.
Nope. I'm just a debate who wants the best for debate and other debate
programs. Ask anyone that knows me. They'll tell you that I'm a crazy, nice
guy who loves the activity. I just don't want to write anymore about this.
This is my stance. I stand by it.
Fort Hays State University...a small school
Archive created by Jonathan Stanton (firstname.lastname@example.org)
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