Reply to Tuna re disclosure

[JKM1993@aol.com]

Received the following...my replies included...

>John Meany said

>> The current models of disclosure do not constitute "some
>>information".

>By your definition, I guess. I find them useful and helpful, though far
>from adequate. I do not equate "lack of detail" with attempts to deceive. I
>find it useful as "some information." I will consult a list if, for no
>other reason, to remember who runs which case, and then I have the details
>in my head from our previous dealings with it.

I do not always equate lack of detail with an attempt to deceive or
manipulate. (This is included in my original posting re disclosure). Yet
there are certainly circumstances in which a lack of detail _does_ manipulate
and deceive. If those circumstances obtain, what should be done? Should one
simply continue the practices and describe them as "disclosure"? This
approach seems to amplify the problem...The point of my posting is only to
argue that individuals should consistently, critically evaluate the
routinized behaviors associated with debate. I am opposed to passive
acquiescence to a dominant model of debate information exchange.

Your description here, of case list as reference material for more precise or
meaningful information ("previous dealings with it") is categorically
different from case list as disclosure, the point of my posting. At the same
time, I think that you would recognize that the convenience of the use of
historical information can frequently lead to tunnel vision in preparation
for debate. 

>> Disclosure
>>conceals much more than it reveals. It manipulates and deceives. It is
>>_designed_ for false inferences. It is fraudulent speech that is
doctrinally
>>distinct from information exchange. It is a cliche of openness that
represses
>>meaningful alternative voices.

>I have little confidence in your ability to read the inner motives of all
>of those involved in "case lists" and then make a generalization out of
>them.

If you have little confidence, that's more than me. I have no confidence in
my ability to read the inner motives of others. My psychic power isn't
relevant to any of my claims. I described the function and 'operational
intention' of disclosure and lists. I described the process of social
production of expectations re disclosure. I discussed the universalizing and
homogenizing direction of disclosure. I offered examples of the deceptive
nature of the information on the list. I used your posting to demonstrate how
"stark secrecy", as opposed to case list information, would offer
participants better information about debate preparation v. UVM. This is not
about conspiracy theory, 'evil' participants, or Freudian insight. As I
mentioned in my original posting and in a number of others on this listserve,
the dynamics of oppressive behavior are complex. It is not reducible to
simplistic good-bad claims. 

>By the way (yet again), a student on CX-L (HS listserv) was hounded out of
>the activity by local coaches and his own coach for posting a case list to
>CX-L. He now cannot debate in his senior year. Nice. That, John, is the
>kind of system which really deserves your ire and descriptive vigor more so
>than our current system. Of course, pointing to another wrong is no
>defense, but it does provide an interesting comparison and allows us to be
>more accurate in using the term "stark secrecy." But then, this example
>might be "brutal secrecy."

I do not subscribe to CX-L. When aware of shameful incidents, I usually do
post...It is an interesting comparison. But it is not, as you note, a
defense, nor "another wrong." It is the same wrong. It is the very same
culture of fear and preference for invisibility that exiles students and
feigns disclosure. 

>Alfred C. Snider AKA Tuna
>Edwin W. Lawrence Professor of Forensics, University of Vermont

Best,

John

John Meany
Claremont Colleges

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